[0:03] Okay, we'd like to call the meeting to
[0:05] order. Welcome to the Charleton Select
[0:08] Board meeting, September 22nd,
[0:09] [clears throat] 2026, 6:30 p.m. Town
[0:12] Hall meeting room 1, 37 Main Street,
[0:15] Charlton, Mass. This meeting is being
[0:17] recorded and broadcast live by Charlton
[0:19] Cable Access TV on Spectrum TV, channel
[0:23] 191, and recording available on the
[0:25] YouTube channel for Charlton TV. Any
[0:28] member of the public who wishes to
[0:30] record this meeting must first notify
[0:33] the chair. If we could stand for the
[0:36] pledge of allegiance, please.
[0:41] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
[0:44] United States of America and to the
[0:46] republic for which it stands, one nation
[0:49] under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[0:53] justice for all.
[0:57] » [snorts]
[0:58] >> And Mike, do we have announcements, sir?
[1:01] >> Yes. Announcements for the select board
[1:03] meeting September 22nd, 2026.
[1:06] Dudley Charlton Regional School District
[1:08] Special Education, September 29th, 2026
[1:11] from 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. at the
[1:13] Heritage School. Sample ballot on the
[1:16] town's clerk town clerk's page. yard
[1:19] waste drop off October 17th, 24th, and
[1:22] 31st, as well as November 7th, and 14th
[1:26] from 10:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the DPW
[1:28] located at 100 Flint Road here in
[1:31] Charlton.
[1:32] Special town meeting Monday, October
[1:35] 19th, 2026 at 7 p.m. located at the
[1:38] Charlton Middle School. We have state
[1:40] election November 3rd, 2026. Early
[1:43] voting begins October 17th through
[1:46] October 29th, 2026.
[1:49] For more information, see the town
[1:51] clerk's page for details. The library is
[1:53] also having a spice drive for the
[1:55] Chip-in Food Pantry from Monday,
[1:57] September 14th through Saturday, October
[2:00] 17th.
[2:02] They are accepting donations of new,
[2:04] unopened, unexpired spices for chipin to
[2:08] distribute with their monthly food
[2:09] pickups. You may drop off spices at
[2:12] either circulation desk.
[2:14] We have been celebrating mushrooms all
[2:16] month long. This Thursday, September
[2:18] 24th, from 6:00 to 7:30 at Dexter Hall,
[2:21] it'll be all about mushrooms. Micologist
[2:24] Jonathan Crayons will be discussing the
[2:27] basic of fungal life and insights on
[2:30] foraging for food and special emphasis
[2:32] on common mushrooms that are likely to
[2:35] be found in our area. At the senior
[2:38] center, they have a blood pressure
[2:39] clinic from September 24th from 8:30
[2:42] a.m. to 10:30 a.m. There's also a
[2:44] monthly grief support on September 29th
[2:47] at 3:30 p.m. Interdimensional by Ronnie
[2:51] Leblanc from the Discovery and Travel
[2:53] Channels is October 5th at 10:30 a.m.
[2:58] >> Okay, thank you, Mike. And moving on to
[3:01] open form. Is there anyone here for open
[3:03] form?
[3:06] Please come up and
[3:07] >> say your name. Hello.
[3:11] >> My name is
[3:13] >> and I'm the chair of the senior
[3:14] community center feasibility committee.
[3:17] Um I just had a few things I wanted to
[3:19] clarify since the last uh select board
[3:21] meeting. Um the proposed article for
[3:24] tonight's discussion says senior center
[3:27] but I want to clarify that it is a
[3:29] senior community center. uh feasibility
[3:31] committee has always been called senior community feasibility without
[3:36] plans including community center space.
[3:38] Um and we've also gotten feedback from
[3:41] many residents expressing an interest in
[3:42] a community center which I think I had
[3:44] also mentioned the last time. Um I also
[3:47] want to clarify that the proposed
[3:49] article is not a feasibility study. It's
[3:51] for the engineering design phase. Um an elaborate topographical analysis was
[3:57] done on the Masonic home road property
[3:59] for the public safety building and a
[4:01] Lero Hill feasibility study was a
[4:03] comparison of three options. The
[4:05] furniture store property, the town hall
[4:08] expansion and renovation and a new
[4:10] build. So this Masonic home choice would
[4:13] be using the new build from that
[4:14] proposal. Um, I want to reiterate that
[4:17] there are 3,960
[4:19] seniors out of a total population of
[4:21] 13,685
[4:23] in town today, which is expected to grow
[4:26] to 5,000 in the next 5 years. And our
[4:29] data indicates that 1194 individuals use
[4:33] the center in some form today. And
[4:36] finally, I want to say the committee has
[4:38] had a little more time to research the
[4:39] Masonic home property. Um, and we
[4:42] support either the Masonic or the
[4:44] Dresser Hill because our goal is the
[4:46] same as it has always been to support
[4:48] our seniors and the community at large
[4:50] with the best possible solution. So,
[4:53] >> thank you.
[4:59] » I'll take the seat.
[5:01] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[5:03] >> My name is Bruce Mannon, five Pine Lane.
[5:06] Um, I'm also here asking for support for
[5:08] the senior community center. Um, we are
[5:12] really ready to go. We have web pages
[5:14] set up. Uh, I'm sorry, Facebook page set
[5:16] up. Um, we have
[5:20] t-shirts all set to go. We've got signs.
[5:22] We're ready to go. So, I'm hoping that
[5:25] we are able to leave here tonight and
[5:27] distribute that stuff right out front.
[5:30] >> I think we're probably going to address
[5:31] most of that when we get down to that on
[5:33] the on the item on the agenda, but
[5:35] Anyone
[5:38] else for open forum?
[5:40] >> Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to ask, do
[5:41] you want us to wait to speak?
[5:44] >> You were on the agenda. So, we just
[5:47] >> Yep.
[5:50] » Anyone else here for open forum?
[5:53] Hearing one? Seeing none.
[5:56] >> Oh,
[5:59] » good evening. Um, my name is Rebecca
[6:01] Cousins. I live at 107 Daniels Road. I'm
[6:05] here to um bring to the selectman's
[6:08] attention some of the concerns of the
[6:13] citizens of Charleton about the
[6:15] situation with the fire chief.
[6:18] Um I can tell you as an attorney
[6:22] I have concerns about
[6:25] someone being left in his position while
[6:29] there is an ongoing investigation.
[6:32] I think, you know, I'm going to have to
[6:33] um
[6:35] the board has a policy. The town has a
[6:37] policy and you being inherent, you would
[6:39] understand that that we don't we don't
[6:41] discuss personnel matters
[6:44] in open form.
[6:45] >> So this is
[6:47] >> certainly not an open form. And if we do
[6:48] discuss personnel matters, the board
[6:51] discusses them.
[6:52] >> Okay.
[6:52] >> And in an in an executive session, okay,
[6:54] at a posted meeting.
[6:56] >> So does the board want to know how the
[6:58] citizens feel or do you not want to
[6:59] know? We just not in open form talking
[7:02] about a personnel matter. We're we're
[7:04] aware of the situation.
[7:06] >> I I don't think it's just a personnel
[7:08] situation.
[7:09] >> It's it's a policy. It's it's it's it's
[7:12] beyond a policy. Actually, it's mass
[7:15] general law that we just don't discuss
[7:17] personnel matters in open.
[7:19] >> I'm telling you as a citizen what I
[7:21] know. You can do what you with it what
[7:24] you will. I'm not telling you what to
[7:25] do. I'm just telling you that
[7:27] >> and I'm just explaining the policy and
[7:30] the rules. I can't be
[7:32] >> I would like to be able to say what I
[7:34] have heard and know and what I
[7:36] personally feel about the decision of
[7:38] the board. If you would prefer I just
[7:41] put that in writing then I will be happy
[7:43] to.
[7:43] >> There has not been a decision on the
[7:45] board of the board though. Actually,
[7:46] we're we're we're starting to get into
[7:48] the weaves of this discussion where we
[7:49] don't discuss personnel matters. I can't
[7:52] make that any more clear.
[7:53] >> Okay. Well, I'm just going to tell you
[7:54] and I want to be on record saying this
[7:56] now that I feel the town is being put at
[8:00] risk for lawsuits. So, if you want to
[8:02] consider that just I'm going to have to
[8:05] ask it's a personel matter. I
[8:07] >> Please
[8:08] >> noted.
[8:08] >> Thank you.
[8:11] >> Anyone else for open form with a with a
[8:14] topic
[8:16] other than the last one?
[8:20] Moving on.
[8:23] Approval of the minutes of the board's
[8:25] meeting on September 8th.
[8:28] >> Motion to approve the minutes as
[8:30] written.
[8:31] >> Second.
[8:32] >> All in favor?
[8:34] >> I I
[8:38] appointments and resations.
[8:40] [clears throat] Andrew.
[8:41] >> All right. We received a notice from Liz
[8:43] France that she needs to resign from the
[8:44] master plan steering committee due to
[8:46] family obligations. The board should
[8:48] accept her resignation and a letter
[8:50] thanking her for her her service to the
[8:52] town is in your sign folder.
[8:59] » Okay. Motion to
[9:02] accept.
[9:03] >> I move to accept the letter with regret.
[9:07] >> Second.
[9:08] >> All in favor?
[9:09] >> I.
[9:12] >> And we are a little early for our 6:45.
[9:17] I'll take the uh first few off the
[9:19] action items list.
[9:21] >> Yeah.
[9:23] >> All right. Uh the first action item is
[9:25] pavement surfacing of Center Depot Road
[9:27] bid award. Bids were open and read for
[9:30] pavement surfacing of Center Depot Road
[9:32] on September 2nd, 2026 at 2:00 p.m.
[9:36] After review of the bid, DPW
[9:38] Superintendent Peele is recommending the
[9:39] board award the bid to Mass Broken Stone
[9:42] Co. in the amount of $367,259.
[9:47] I'd recommend the board award the bid as
[9:50] requested.
[9:52] >> I would move to uh award the bid as
[9:54] requested.
[9:55] >> Second.
[9:58] >> All in favor?
[9:58] >> I It's unanimous.
[10:03] » Right. The next is a special alcoholic
[10:05] beverage license for the Overlook Fall
[10:08] Festival. attaches an application for a
[10:11] special alcoholic beverage license for
[10:12] wine and malt beverages from Daniel
[10:15] Drager of for the Overlook Fall Festival
[10:18] to be held Saturday, October 3rd, 2026
[10:22] from 11:00 a.m. to 4 p.m. at 88 Masonic
[10:24] Road. The application was forwarded to
[10:27] the police chief, building commissioner,
[10:28] and fire department for review, which
[10:30] all have approved. Per the board's
[10:33] policy, the dates on the license should
[10:35] include the day before the event to
[10:37] allow the alcohol to be delivered, the
[10:38] day of the event, and the day the day
[10:42] after the event to allow any alcohol
[10:44] left over to be picked up.
[10:47] I move to approve the special alcoholic
[10:49] beverage license as submitted by Daniel
[10:51] Darger for wine and malt u beverages to
[10:54] be used for the overlook festival with
[10:57] the dates on the license to be October
[10:59] 2nd 2006 to October 4th 2026.
[11:02] >> Second
[11:05] have a motion and a second. All in
[11:06] favor?
[11:07] >> I unanimous.
[11:10] >> Right. Next we have the Knights of
[11:12] Columbus request for a Tootsie Roll
[11:13] drive. The Knights of Columbus, Charlton
[11:15] Council 11379 is seeking to conduct a
[11:19] Tootsie Roll drive to benefit children
[11:21] with special needs and disabilities.
[11:23] They would like to set up a voluntary
[11:24] toll road on Saturday, October 10th,
[11:27] 2026 from 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the corner
[11:30] of Main Street and Masonic Road. This
[11:32] request has been forwarded and approved
[11:34] by the by police chief Dow contingent
[11:36] upon the following safety precautions.
[11:39] All volunteers must wear bright colored
[11:41] vests, yellow, orange, green, or red,
[11:44] while soliciting donations. Orange
[11:47] traffic cones must be set out on Main
[11:48] Street and Sonic Road for a distance not
[11:50] less than 50 ft on each respective way
[11:53] prior to reaching the toll station. A
[11:56] minimum of five traffic cones on each
[11:57] roadway should be put in place at
[11:59] distance no greater than 10 ft apart.
[12:01] and signs warning voluntary toll road
[12:03] ahead must be erected on both Masonic
[12:05] Home Road and Main Street now less than
[12:07] 75 ft from the toll collection area.
[12:10] Should the board approve this [snorts]
[12:11] request, I'd ask you consider including
[12:12] Chief Dow's recommendation into the
[12:14] motion.
[12:16] >> Do I have a motion?
[12:18] >> I move to approve as written.
[12:20] >> Second.
[12:22] >> All in favor? I
[12:24] >> I unanimous.
[12:27] [snorts]
[12:31] » Sure. Um opioid settlement funds grant
[12:35] application. At the board's May 25th,
[12:37] 2026 meeting, Jim FA came before the
[12:39] board requesting fund funding from the
[12:41] opioid settlement fund in support of the
[12:44] mission of his nonprofit organization,
[12:46] Adam's Parachute. There's currently
[12:48] 10,000 in uncommitted settlement funding
[12:51] under this uh under the opioid
[12:53] settlement. The board approved a grant
[12:55] application with a cap of $2,500 to
[12:57] those that apply if they fit within the
[13:00] guidelines of the use of the funds. We
[13:03] have [clears throat] received one
[13:04] application from Mr. FA for the minim
[13:07] maximum amount of $2,500 to be used for
[13:09] his nonprofit. I have refused the
[13:12] application and it supports the purpose
[13:13] of the funds to be used. I recommend the
[13:15] board approve the request.
[13:18] Do I have a motion to approve?
[13:20] >> So moved. Second.
[13:22] >> All in favor?
[13:23] >> I thank you for your work on that.
[13:25] >> No problem.
[13:32] » All right. U
[13:34] before we get to our 4 645
[13:38] um HCA amendment with Troton Investments
[13:41] LLC pedals cannabis. The Cannabis
[13:44] Control Commission issued a host
[13:45] community notice dated August 21st, 2026
[13:49] determining that section 5810 of the HCA
[13:53] with Charlton Investments LLC pedals
[13:55] canvas is non-compliant under 935 CMR
[13:58] 500.1804A
[14:02] and CMR 501
[14:05] 58A
[14:06] because it requires payment of a
[14:08] community impact fee prior to the end of
[14:10] the current fiscal year or within 90
[14:12] days of the of the commission's CIF
[14:15] certification. In order to cure this,
[14:17] Charlton Investments LLC has amended or
[14:20] has proposed an amendment to section 5
[14:22] A10 of this agreement to delete in its
[14:25] entirety and replace with the following.
[14:28] The company shall have the right to
[14:29] dispute any community impact fee
[14:31] itemized in municipalities invoice for
[14:34] the licensed year. Companies shall
[14:36] annually pay any undisputed CIF no later
[14:39] than the date of the current current
[14:41] fiscal year or within 90 days of the
[14:42] date of the commission CF certification.
[14:44] Whatever is later
[14:46] is reviewed this amendment and would
[14:48] recommend the board approve.
[14:51] >> Do I have a motion? The motion to
[14:53] approve as written.
[14:55] >> Second.
[14:56] >> All in favor?
[15:04] We are at 6:44. I have a feeling the f
[15:07] camera would probably last a little
[15:10] longer than one minute.
[15:12] >> All right.
[15:12] >> You might want to
[15:14] >> we'll start the 6:45.
[15:16] >> All right. 6:45 meeting with finance
[15:18] committee finalized special town meeting
[15:20] warrant and motions and select board to
[15:22] close the special town meeting warrant.
[15:25] site board is scheduled to review and
[15:27] finalize the special time meeting
[15:28] warrant and motions with finance
[15:29] committee. The board will also need to
[15:31] close the warrant so our office can post
[15:32] it with the town clerk by October 1st.
[15:35] Uh just an outline of each article that
[15:38] was received. So uh article one
[15:40] appropriation of funds uh for unpaid
[15:43] bills of a prior fiscal year. Article
[15:46] two interdep departmental transfers and
[15:48] appropriations for FY27 budget. Article
[15:51] three, amendments to the FY2027 budget.
[15:54] Article four, miscellaneous capital
[15:56] items and related contracts. Article
[15:58] five, we have in here right now, new
[16:00] senior center design phase. I'll leave
[16:02] it up to the board if you want to make
[16:04] any amendments to that. Um, article
[16:06] seven, amend general laws, general
[16:09] bylaws, chapter 110, animal control.
[16:11] Article eight, amend general bylaws
[16:13] chapter 155, licenses and permits.
[16:16] Article 9, except Mass General Law,
[16:18] Chapter 138, Section 33B, sales of
[16:20] alcoholic beverage licenses by on
[16:22] premise licenses on Sundays and legal
[16:24] holidays with sales between 10:00 a.m.
[16:26] and 12 noon. Article 10, acceptance of
[16:30] Ashley Road and Amber Road as public
[16:32] ways. Art and then articles 11 through
[16:36] 14 are zoning amendments to be
[16:38] recommended by the planning board. And
[16:40] article 15 is the citizens petition um
[16:43] non-binding related to automated license
[16:46] plate reader surveillance. So you're to
[16:49] go through each one of these with the
[16:51] finance committee this evening and
[16:52] provide your recommendation after
[16:54] closing the
[16:55] >> after closing. So I would I would um
[16:58] accept a motion to close the warrant.
[17:03] » Do we close it before? You want to close
[17:06] the warrant so no new articles can come
[17:09] in. You can now make changes to the
[17:11] warrant
[17:12] >> warrant to remove or approve the mask.
[17:14] Okay. So I move to close the warrant as
[17:17] written.
[17:17] >> Second.
[17:18] >> All in favor?
[17:19] >> I the warrant is closed.
[17:26] » How do we want to handle the
[17:27] appropriation of funds to Well, actually
[17:30] the finance committee has to open their
[17:31] meeting.
[17:32] >> Yes.
[17:34] So I will call a meeting to uh the
[17:37] finance committee to order at 6:45
[17:41] and we have quum.
[17:43] >> Okay. So we
[17:46] >> welcome [laughter]
[17:48] to good to see you.
[17:51] >> All right. So article one is
[17:53] appropriation of funds for bill for
[17:55] funds for unpaid bills of a prior fiscal
[17:57] year. We had three I'm sorry if we had
[18:00] four. Three of them were water sewer
[18:02] maintenance uh bills to Violia. We had
[18:04] one um municipal offices and expense
[18:07] equipment for Worcester elevator.
[18:14] » So if we get started I will entertain a
[18:17] motion that the finance committee
[18:19] support article one as presented.
[18:22] >> I'll make a motion.
[18:22] >> I have a motion. Second.
[18:24] >> I have a second. Any discussion?
[18:27] Ray. All in favor say yes.
[18:30] >> Yes.
[18:31] >> Unanimous.
[18:32] >> Roll call vote because of Zoom or
[18:34] >> Yeah.
[18:35] >> Ray. Yes or no?
[18:37] >> Yes. Ray. Yeah. Thank you.
[18:41] And I would accept a motion from the
[18:43] board to accept article one to support
[18:47] article one.
[18:49] >> I move to support article one as
[18:50] written.
[18:51] >> Second.
[18:52] >> All in favor? I.
[18:54] >> Unanimous.
[18:56] All right. Article article two for
[18:58] interdep departmental transfers and or
[19:01] appropriations for the FY27 budget. We
[19:03] propose no changes to the FY27 budget.
[19:06] So the recommendation is to pass over
[19:08] this article indefinitely.
[19:10] >> I'll make a motion that the finance
[19:12] committee supports article two.
[19:14] >> Second.
[19:15] >> All in favor say yes.
[19:18] >> Yes. Ready? Say yes. Right.
[19:21] >> Yes.
[19:24] And I would I would accept a me a motion
[19:27] from our board for article.
[19:30] >> I move to um support the article two as
[19:33] written.
[19:35] >> Second.
[19:36] >> All in favor?
[19:37] >> I
[19:41] article three would be amendments to the
[19:42] FY2027 budget. Um again, we are
[19:45] proposing no additional changes to the
[19:47] FY27 [snorts]
[19:49] budget uh for taxation increases.
[19:54] So pass over pass over the article
[19:56] indefinitely. Sorry.
[19:57] >> Okay. You're going to pass over. So do
[19:59] we really need to take a vote of
[20:00] support?
[20:02] >> Recommend. You recommended.
[20:03] >> Recommend that we pass over.
[20:05] >> All right. I'll entertain a motion that
[20:06] we pass over article three.
[20:12] » Second.
[20:14] >> All those in favor say I. Say yes. Ray.
[20:17] >> Yes.
[20:18] >> Unanimous.
[20:19] >> Now this was sponsored by the finance
[20:21] comm. Do we need to take a vote on that
[20:23] as well?
[20:23] >> Yes,
[20:24] >> we do. Okay.
[20:26] >> I would accept a motion
[20:28] >> to pass over on article
[20:30] >> three.
[20:32] >> I'll make that motion to pass over in
[20:33] article three.
[20:34] >> Second.
[20:35] >> All in favor?
[20:36] >> I.
[20:38] >> All right. Article four being
[20:40] miscellaneous capital items and related
[20:41] contracts. We break this into uh four
[20:44] separate motions. Uh motion one [snorts]
[20:47] is the general government side. So, it
[20:50] is $50,000 for grant match and planning
[20:53] funds for the select board, $15,000 for
[20:56] a hydraulic hydraulic and hydronic
[20:59] analysis of South Charleton reservoir
[21:01] from the conservation commission,
[21:03] $50,000 for municipal building
[21:05] improvements,
[21:07] um $80,000 for technology replacements
[21:09] and improvements, and $40,000 to the
[21:12] library for floor carpeting replacement.
[21:14] That would be motion one.
[21:17] Do we have a recommendation of the
[21:19] finance committee?
[21:21] >> Finance committee. I'll entertain a
[21:23] motion. We support article 4 as written.
[21:26] >> We make a motion. Finance committee
[21:28] supports article 4 motion one.
[21:30] >> Second.
[21:31] >> I have a second. Any discussion?
[21:34] There being none. All those in favor say
[21:36] yes.
[21:36] >> Yes.
[21:36] >> Ray.
[21:37] >> Yes.
[21:38] >> Unanimous.
[21:39] >> Okay. And select board on the same
[21:43] motion on the article. I move to support
[21:46] motion one article 4 as written.
[21:50] >> Second
[21:51] motion in a second. All in favor?
[21:54] >> I
[21:56] motion.
[21:57] >> Motion two is police items. Uh the only
[22:00] item for this year are our annual
[22:02] cruiser replacements in the amount of
[22:04] $275,000.
[22:08] I'll entertain a motion that finance
[22:11] committee recommends motion two of
[22:15] article 4. I guess we got to get that
[22:16] specific.
[22:18] >> I motion.
[22:18] >> I have a motion. I have a second. Any
[22:21] discussion?
[22:22] There being none, all those in favor say
[22:24] yes.
[22:25] >> Yes.
[22:26] It's unanimous.
[22:30] » Okay. And the board of selectment on
[22:32] motion two of article four.
[22:36] I move to support article 4, motion two
[22:38] as written.
[22:39] >> Second.
[22:40] >> All in favor?
[22:42] >> I
[22:44] motion three.
[22:45] >> Yep. Motion three are items related to
[22:47] the fire department. Uh three items on
[22:50] the list for this year. An F350 pickup
[22:52] truck support vehicle in the amount of
[22:54] 110,000.
[22:56] uh $100,000 for the refurbishment of
[22:58] Forestry 1 and 61,000 from ambulance
[23:03] receipts reserved from appropriation for
[23:05] the purchase of a life pack for the EMS
[23:07] car.
[23:12] » I'll make a motion that the finance
[23:13] committee supports motion three, article
[23:16] 4.
[23:17] >> Second.
[23:17] >> Have a motion and a second. Any
[23:19] discussion? There being none, all those
[23:22] in favor say yes.
[23:24] >> Yes.
[23:24] Ready?
[23:25] >> Yes.
[23:27] >> Unanimous.
[23:30] » Okay. And for the select board on
[23:32] article four, motion three.
[23:36] >> Make a motion that we support.
[23:38] >> Second.
[23:40] >> All in favor?
[23:41] >> I.
[23:43] >> Right. The last one out of this was
[23:44] motion four. These are items related to
[23:46] um DPW, highway, cemetery, and sewer. So
[23:52] um we have
[23:55] $140,000 to the highway division for an
[23:58] F350 utility bucket lift pickup.
[24:01] $300,000 for an excav excavator with a
[24:05] rotary mower for the highway division.
[24:08] $50,000 for a replacement wood chipper
[24:11] for the highway division. $24,000
[24:14] for cemetery road paving for the
[24:16] cemetery division. $8,000 for K Cabota
[24:20] accessories for the DPWs uh or for the
[24:23] cemetery division and $25,000 for office
[24:27] renovations from the sewer retained
[24:30] earnings for the sewer division.
[24:34] >> Entertain a motion that the finance
[24:35] committee support motion four of article
[24:38] 4.
[24:39] >> Motion.
[24:39] >> I have a motion. I have a second. Any
[24:42] discussion? There being none, all those
[24:44] in favor say yes.
[24:45] >> Yes.
[24:46] >> Ray. Yes,
[24:48] >> unanimous.
[24:50] >> Okay. And for the select board, we have
[24:52] a motion on article motion four on
[24:54] article four.
[24:56] >> I move to support article four option um
[25:00] motion four as written.
[25:03] >> Second.
[25:05] >> All in favor?
[25:06] >> I
[25:10] article five tried to take direction of
[25:11] the board as to the appropriate way to
[25:15] craft the wording for this one. So
[25:16] please tell me if you want to make any
[25:18] changes before posting. But
[25:20] >> no, sorry.
[25:22] >> Sorry. Art five as listed right now.
[25:28] » Is uh new senior center and police
[25:30] department parking expansion design
[25:32] phase. Uh essentially this is a motion
[25:34] to appropriate $500,000 from available
[25:37] free cash to the stated purpose
[25:42] >> through the chair. Regarding the name
[25:44] that was brought up, I would like to
[25:45] suggest to avoid confusion and to be
[25:48] consistent that we insert the word
[25:51] community after
[25:53] senior. So it would be the new senior
[25:56] community center design phase. Uh this
[25:58] is consistent with what the committee
[26:00] was the select board um appointed many
[26:03] years ago. Um and it's what the chairman
[26:08] mentioned earlier today. It would be
[26:11] their preference to call it. There's
[26:13] enough confusion out there already.
[26:15] >> Yeah.
[26:15] >> So you're suggesting on under article
[26:17] five under a new senior center just the
[26:20] verbat
[26:21] >> senior community
[26:22] >> senior right here center.
[26:24] >> That's what that was the name of this
[26:25] feasibility study that
[26:27] >> actually wasn't actually wasn't the name
[26:29] of the original.
[26:30] >> No.
[26:31] it was the activity center.
[26:34] community.
[26:35] >> It's semantics, but we have an activity
[26:36] center.
[26:37] >> But it's so but but it that's what's the
[26:39] committee was called. But people need to
[26:42] know and I I do I do want to point out
[26:44] too this is just to reference the
[26:46] project. At the end of the day down the
[26:48] road it may not be called, you know, who
[26:51] knows what it's going to be called. We
[26:52] know it's going to be primarily for
[26:53] seniors, but they they have new names
[26:56] for our senior centers now. So that's up
[26:57] to you. Typically, it's up to the
[26:59] building committee or but this is just
[27:02] so when we're referencing the project,
[27:03] it people understand it's senior
[27:07] community senior center.
[27:09] >> Yeah. I think it
[27:10] >> it's housekeeping really.
[27:11] >> Yeah.
[27:12] >> I think my only concern and maybe I I
[27:15] can probably be persuaded on that is is
[27:18] who has jurisdiction over the use of the
[27:21] building. If is is it the community or
[27:25] is it the council on aging that that
[27:26] says when you can use it or
[27:28] >> again this is this is just and the chair
[27:31] can correct me if I'm wrong but this is
[27:32] just to reference it to get the point
[27:34] across that there is in the design by
[27:37] Lero there is a space for the community
[27:40] much like the library we all know the
[27:42] library is the library but it has a
[27:44] space for a community to use off hours
[27:47] etc and of course we all know down the
[27:49] road that comes with policy development
[27:51] but the design um that was paid for by
[27:55] the citizens of the town as that
[27:57] community space. So, we just want to
[27:59] make sure we're being transparent. Um
[28:01] and it it honestly we need to avoid
[28:04] confusion because people are confused
[28:06] enough about
[28:06] >> I think that's I think that's why I
[28:08] asked the question.
[28:09] >> Yeah,
[28:10] >> it's a housekeeping item. Yeah.
[28:15] Is
[28:18] as far as the design of the building,
[28:21] >> people are going to ask what are you
[28:23] what do you want to build there? I mean,
[28:25] when when the chair came up in open
[28:29] form, she said it was um you still had
[28:31] multiple options. You were still looking
[28:33] at
[28:36] >> not now.
[28:52] project
[28:58] » senior community visibility
[28:59] >> on Masonic home we're only talking
[29:02] Masonic home road
[29:04] >> no I'm asking the question have you guys
[29:06] has has the committee voted on that
[29:09] >> yeah it says it right here
[29:14] » well and in article five through the
[29:15] chair it says a new senior center to be
[29:18] located on Masonic Home Road. So,
[29:20] >> no one's debating that. It's just what
[29:22] we're going to reference it to avoid
[29:23] confusion in the community. That's
[29:25] >> Well, no, but in her opening in her
[29:26] opening, she said there were three
[29:28] options. So, two options.
[29:30] >> That's what the project,
[29:32] >> right?
[29:33] >> And one of them was a new
[29:36] project
[29:38] new build.
[29:40] And and I believe the chair was was just
[29:43] reminding people that the money was
[29:46] spent and what it was spent on versus
[29:47] because people there's you know well
[29:49] they starting from scratch again.
[29:50] >> What it was what it was spent on was for
[29:55] a feasibility study to see if furniture
[29:58] was suitable for
[29:59] >> No, actually we have to we actually have
[30:02] a design of the building at the inside
[30:04] but the layout
[30:05] >> it was spent on three options.
[30:07] >> Yeah. three options actually for through
[30:09] the chair and I don't know if you want
[30:10] to just because you can
[30:13] >> it was it was a comparative analysis of retrofitting that building to what a
[30:17] new a new construction would be
[30:21] >> different taking yeah new construction
[30:24] >> so this so this $500,000 that we're
[30:26] talking about would go towards
[30:29] that original plan
[30:32] >> no it's
[30:34] >> whichever one
[30:36] >> so we
[30:37] I I'm I'm more I'm driving down more to
[30:39] one square footage.
[30:41] >> Yeah. And I guess my question is so when
[30:42] are we so we want to push this this
[30:44] through without knowing
[30:48] where we going to appropriate that
[30:49] 500,000 either or
[30:51] >> it says through the chair it says the
[30:53] article actually states construction of
[30:56] a new senior center to be located on
[30:58] Masonic home road right
[30:59] >> and additional parking for police
[31:01] departments. So what's the question?
[31:03] >> So no so this is are we sure on this? So
[31:05] why would Bringing up two different
[31:07] options is where I'm confused. So I just
[31:09] eliminate. So we already eliminating the
[31:11] other option of the furniture store and
[31:13] we just going with the option on the
[31:15] Masonic.
[31:16] >> Okay. Because that is what I was
[31:17] confused because we keep bringing the
[31:19] two options and this and another.
[31:20] >> People didn't understand what the money
[31:22] was spent on. Right. So
[31:24] >> okay, that's what it is. Okay.
[31:25] >> That's all. That's all.
[31:28] >> Okay. So then so so then with what
[31:29] you're saying Karen then we will also
[31:31] change that verbiage here. the new
[31:33] senior center police department parking
[31:35] extension. Right?
[31:36] >> So I I guess I would make a motion if
[31:38] the chair is okay with this that we
[31:40] insert the word that article five should
[31:42] read new senior and we insert the word
[31:45] community center and then and police
[31:47] department parking expansion design
[31:49] phase. That's that's all that's all
[31:51] we're looking
[31:51] >> in both in both places
[31:52] >> just for the word change.
[31:53] >> Yeah, that's it.
[31:54] >> Not not to do with the article.
[31:57] >> I agree. Yeah, that makes it much
[31:59] >> Would you like to second that?
[32:01] >> I second.
[32:02] >> Okay. All in favor?
[32:03] >> I through semantics. [clears throat]
[32:07] » Favor.
[32:08] >> Do you have a square footage in mind?
[32:12] Because the town meeting is going to ask
[32:14] that.
[32:15] >> But that's not that's not important
[32:17] tonight.
[32:18] >> What's that?
[32:18] >> I don't think that's important tonight.
[32:21] >> Lots of lots of information will be
[32:23] coming out, but to to the chair of the
[32:26] finance committee.
[32:27] >> So, is it my understanding you've
[32:28] changed the you've added the word?
[32:30] That's the new amended motion.
[32:32] >> Okay.
[32:33] >> Then I will entertain a motion that the
[32:37] finance committee support article 5 as
[32:39] amended.
[32:43] » Motion. I have a second. Any discussion?
[32:47] There being none, all those in favor say
[32:49] yes.
[32:50] >> Ray,
[32:51] >> yes.
[32:52] >> It's unanimous. Okay.
[32:56] And I would for the chair I would make
[32:58] the motion that the select board
[33:00] supports article five as amended
[33:09] » just for design phase
[33:11] >> for for appropriation of that 500,000.
[33:14] So that was a place the placeholder that
[33:16] was a holder right that we were holding
[33:18] that one for the article five.
[33:20] >> So yeah. So what do we have to think
[33:21] about if you want to
[33:23] >> you have an open motion?
[33:27] >> Can I have a second for dis second for
[33:29] discussion?
[33:30] >> Have a second for discussion.
[33:32] >> I just want to clarify. Second for
[33:33] discussion.
[33:34] >> Yeah.
[33:34] >> So this is that was that's what we're
[33:36] holding. So now just so we're on the
[33:38] same page. So if we support this motion,
[33:41] we supporting the appropriation of of
[33:43] half a million dollars going
[33:45] specifically with a name change to the
[33:48] uh Masonic home. [clears throat]
[33:51] And it would be for the senior community
[33:53] center and police department parking
[33:55] expansion.
[33:56] >> And that is how it's going to be
[33:57] advertised and the t-shirts and
[33:59] everything. It's going to go to both.
[34:01] >> Well, we can't the t-shirt.
[34:02] >> I'm just making I'm being I'm being
[34:03] sarcastic, but you know what I mean.
[34:05] It's not that you're trying to make it
[34:07] sound better for us. So, this is going
[34:10] to be everywhere on the on the on the
[34:11] website, how you going to promote it and
[34:13] everything else in in between.
[34:15] >> I Yeah. Okay.
[34:20] Yeah. So, let's do a motion. That's
[34:23] >> So, this is basically picking up where
[34:25] the other left off. We're not starting
[34:26] from scratch. And that's what's
[34:28] important.
[34:30] >> You're not starting from scratch, but
[34:31] town meeting is going to ask the
[34:33] committee how big of a building you
[34:35] >> Yes. And you have they have and remember
[34:37] town meeting approved town meeting
[34:39] approved the $50,000 to get to this
[34:42] point. And we don't want to stall at
[34:44] this point because that would be going
[34:46] against what town meeting wanted us to
[34:48] do. And now we're going to put it before
[34:49] the voters of the town to see if they
[34:51] want to put the bill because they're the
[34:53] taxpayers. They're the ones that going
[34:54] to be voting the bill. So I don't see a
[34:57] problem letting democracy happen, but
[34:59] they'll have all the answers. I know the
[35:01] committee's got lots of information
[35:02] coming out.
[35:03] >> I I I'm um I'm a little stuck on this
[35:06] one.
[35:07] >> Well, by I'm I'm a little stuck on it
[35:10] only for the We don't know
[35:13] You still have to have an idea of what
[35:15] the the total cost of a building would
[35:17] be. And if we can only use square
[35:19] footage like that, how big of a building
[35:21] is someone's going to ask that
[35:22] >> through the chair that the the design if
[35:24] you looked at it is there and we did
[35:27] Andrew did great work projecting the
[35:30] cost and the time,000 square feet. It's
[35:32] the Lero project.
[35:41] because you can take that and move it.
[35:44] >> Andrew's options, the four options that
[35:46] he had for numbers.
[35:48] >> So the so then you're at 850 square
[35:51] feet.
[35:52] >> I'll note that this is on the basis of
[35:55] the design. Obviously by appropriating
[35:57] funds, you still have to hire a a
[35:59] owner's project manager and you have to
[36:00] hire an architect. Once you bring those
[36:02] on board, you can make you can
[36:05] essentially direct and work with them to
[36:07] determine what is the appropriate size
[36:09] either based off the feasibility or how
[36:11] much you know the the town potentially
[36:14] wants to pay for a building like this.
[36:16] So it may dictate that a smaller
[36:19] building is what is [snorts] necessary
[36:21] to pass muster.
[36:23] >> But we got to put it we got to we got to
[36:25] put it before the taxpayers to see what
[36:28] they want to do. What who are we to sit
[36:31] here and say I guess we could go and say
[36:33] you're not going to re you can not
[36:35] recommend it but I mean to me to not
[36:38] support it doesn't make a lot of sense
[36:40] because
[36:41] >> the taxpayers voted at town meeting to
[36:43] get us to this phase.
[36:45] >> No no it's like
[36:46] >> they voted on 50,000
[36:48] >> correct but not to throw it not to throw
[36:50] it out the window but to get
[36:52] >> this is this is to this is a completely
[36:54] different project.
[36:57] No, it's not.
[36:58] >> It's in a different
[36:59] >> It's the second phase of the of the
[37:01] first 50,000 miss.
[37:03] >> That's the way I look at it.
[37:05] >> This is how things progress.
[37:13] » Um yes, sure.
[37:15] >> Exactly the way the library was.
[37:18] You had a feasibility study and then you
[37:20] had a design process. design process was
[37:23] with the architect to come up with a
[37:27] design that was appropriate.
[37:31] And so what you're doing is you're
[37:32] asking them to move forward to get a
[37:35] design using 500,000. Is that what I'm
[37:39] hearing?
[37:40] >> Right. Okay. And after that, we came
[37:43] back and asked the town for money based
[37:46] on the design that was presented.
[37:50] >> The town agreed. Yeah, I understand
[37:53] that. But this is But I'm also hearing
[37:55] the conflict that the design is already
[37:57] done. You're using the same design that
[37:59] was done.
[38:01] >> So it's 11,000 ft is what you're shoot
[38:03] it. It it you know what it's
[38:05] >> if we spend 15 minutes here is we could
[38:08] probably save an hour town meeting
[38:10] because people are going to have a lot
[38:11] of questions. What
[38:12] >> they're going to get answers, Steve.
[38:14] This is this is democracy. The town has
[38:16] spent a half a million dollars before on
[38:19] designs that have never been used.
[38:21] Actually, we spent 900.
[38:22] >> That's the town's decision. That's
[38:24] ultimately, look what happened with the
[38:26] public safety building. They ultimately
[38:27] decided not to.
[38:28] >> But we bring it forward. Yeah. Look at
[38:29] what happened. You're right. And we have
[38:32] $900,000 worth of plans sitting on a
[38:34] self on a shelf collecting dust.
[38:37] >> So, you're saying you think you know
[38:38] better than the taxpayers of this town
[38:40] that you're not going to give them the
[38:41] opportunity to Oh, you actually This is
[38:43] just a recommendation. We're rushing
[38:45] this to the point, why can't we just
[38:49] >> Well, you know, you could laugh all you
[38:51] want, but but it wasn't it wasn't the
[38:55] board that kept going back to Charlton
[38:58] Furniture for three years. It was the
[39:00] committee.
[39:01] >> Just point of order. This is not what we
[39:04] should be discussing. It should be
[39:06] >> do we support it because it's on the
[39:08] warrant now, but do because we closed
[39:09] it, but do we support make the
[39:11] recommendation or not? And then we let
[39:13] the people
[39:13] >> Okay. We closed it, but this is just a
[39:15] place. This is just a holder. So, we can
[39:17] remove it just as easy. This is not the
[39:19] one. I'm just saying technically
[39:20] speaking.
[39:22] >> You think that's the
[39:23] >> I can All right. Maybe Maybe we thinking
[39:29] >> to move something forward.
[39:32] >> No, we're going to either move it or we
[39:33] don't want to move it. Support it and
[39:35] move it.
[39:36] >> Okay.
[39:36] Karen, you want to do the option?
[39:37] You do the motion. There's a
[39:38] >> question. I'm we already I already
[39:40] >> I just I just thought that the purpose
[39:42] of tonight's meeting was for this board
[39:44] to bring forth something to the
[39:46] community to make a vote on. And so
[39:48] you're not not necessarily voting as a
[39:50] individual in this town to say you
[39:53] support spending $500,000 in this way.
[39:56] From my perspective, you're voting to
[39:58] say we are going to bring it to the town
[40:00] meeting and let the citizens decide. And
[40:03] so I think that some of the questions
[40:05] you have are very valid, but for town
[40:07] meeting night and not for this time
[40:09] right now.
[40:10] >> Absolutely.
[40:11] >> Yes.
[40:12] >> I think the first question you're going
[40:14] to come up with is
[40:16] >> But is that tonight's question?
[40:18] >> Well, if if
[40:19] >> there's going to be lots of questions
[40:20] you probably didn't even think of and
[40:21] they're all good ones.
[40:22] >> Oh, no. I thought about this quite a
[40:23] bit.
[40:26] >> I've had, you know, multiple years to
[40:28] think about it. Well, I just hope that
[40:31] people will come to the town meeting and
[40:32] they can be educated on it at the town
[40:34] meeting and they can make the educated
[40:36] choice.
[40:36] >> And that's that's the process that the
[40:38] people love and we know from former
[40:40] master plans that were done that when we
[40:42] looked into getting rid of town meeting
[40:44] and going to a different form of
[40:46] government that this is what the people
[40:48] this is like number one. Let us we like
[40:50] the fact we can get on the town floor
[40:52] and have these have these discussions.
[40:54] It's it's it's the process they never
[40:56] want to at that time they didn't want to
[40:58] get rid of.
[40:59] >> Okay. So again, I don't think any of us
[41:01] for five member board can sit here and
[41:03] say
[41:03] >> the risk the committee has here is not
[41:06] giving enough information to town
[41:08] meeting voters to make a decision and
[41:10] you get shot down.
[41:12] >> That's a risk.
[41:13] >> Then you get shot down,
[41:14] >> right? That's okay. You get shot down
[41:16] and that's right. Then they can vote.
[41:17] But you're not going to get those
[41:18] >> make your case against it. It's okay.
[41:20] >> Oh, I'm David. This is
[41:22] >> Yeah, but if I but if I make my case
[41:24] against it at town meeting and I say
[41:26] yes, here I'm a little bit hypocritical.
[41:27] Well, then don't re vote to not
[41:29] recommend it, but leave the article.
[41:31] Please let the let let the article stay
[41:34] and vote not to re
[41:36] >> But I agree with them what Jamie said.
[41:39] But um yeah, let we're all entitled to
[41:41] our opinions, but to block this from the voters. And I will remind you,
[41:44] >> you know what? If if if there was if if this is what we maybe
[41:51] can we change the wording on this a
[41:54] little bit
[41:55] >> to what
[41:56] >> to to $500,000 to help
[42:00] facilitate a design that will fit on
[42:02] that space.
[42:04] >> That's what it is.
[42:06] >> This is No, but I'm hearing But I'm
[42:08] hearing But you just said the design is
[42:09] already done.
[42:13] So Steve, which is through you, which is
[42:16] good because the layout is done. So some
[42:18] of that 50,000, let's hope, was spent in
[42:21] the right way. So we, that's my
[42:23] understanding, we can take those plans
[42:25] that we already spend the money on and
[42:27] hopefully use it to elaborate on it, do
[42:31] more study and see if that fits in our
[42:34] land on Masonic
[42:36] >> and like like but this is the next
[42:37] phase. So, I would make a motion that we we support we we support the rec that
[42:43] this article as
[42:45] >> presented with well as amended. I
[42:47] already did that, didn't I?
[42:49] >> And we had a second. Yeah. Okay. Sorry.
[42:52] >> We've amended with the community center
[42:54] next
[42:54] >> and all this does and then just as a
[42:56] reminder, all this does is get it to the
[42:58] people and the debate can happen and
[43:00] then you
[43:01] >> Yeah, that's
[43:03] >> I I don't believe anybody seconded it
[43:05] though. Yes,
[43:06] >> I second this and I said it and I go to
[43:08] what Karen said and this is my
[43:11] understanding that one of the
[43:13] >> most important jobs of select board in
[43:17] my opinion is to put hold and let
[43:20] through the warrant articles for that
[43:23] specific reason.
[43:25] So yes, is a democratic way of some Yes,
[43:29] that's one explanation. What I think and
[43:30] I'm not going to put words in your in
[43:32] you Steve, but what he's thinking that
[43:34] yes, this is our right to not to vote it
[43:37] in. So I want to be clear that this is
[43:39] not that we must to put it on the
[43:41] warrant. We can take it out because
[43:44] that's
[43:46] part of our responsibilities if we don't
[43:49] see it fit. So let's just clarify this.
[43:51] Now Karen made a motion to put this
[43:55] article five on the Warren
[43:58] amended adding
[44:00] >> the community center to the senior
[44:01] center.
[44:02] >> I made a motion to recommend it. It was
[44:04] to to to support
[44:05] >> to support it But you supported it
[44:07] amended. So should Right. So we were
[44:10] supporting amendment.
[44:10] >> That was for the wording change.
[44:11] >> The word it was for the wording change
[44:13] but then we so we had to say we support
[44:15] as
[44:15] >> so that's very clear. So now the motion
[44:17] on at the table is to support article
[44:21] five
[44:22] >> as amended.
[44:23] >> And through the chair the last thing I
[44:25] will say just just a general reminder if
[44:28] you look at our organizational chart the
[44:30] citizens you are at the top we are at
[44:33] the next line.
[44:34] >> Correct.
[44:35] >> So you know we want we want those same
[44:37] citizens will might say how can you
[44:40] bring something in front of us if you
[44:41] don't even know how big it is. Well, we
[44:43] can
[44:45] >> we will address
[44:46] >> we will this will all get addressed and
[44:48] there'll be other questions you didn't
[44:49] even think of
[44:50] >> and and it gets addressed, but then the
[44:52] risk is is wasting $500,000.
[44:54] >> But it's up to the people to decide if
[44:56] they're going to do it. Are you are you
[44:58] I don't understand you're wanting to
[45:01] block this from the people who are going
[45:04] to be actually footing the bill. You
[45:06] want to don't you want to ask them? You
[45:08] think you want to?
[45:09] >> So So then so then what what should be included in this. What should
[45:14] be included in here is that you want to
[45:16] take the design, the Lero design from
[45:18] Charlton Furniture and move that layout
[45:20] to this spot, this site.
[45:22] >> That's that's what you're asking.
[45:24] >> No, doesn't matter.
[45:25] >> That that is No, but that that's what
[45:26] you just said. You said the design is
[45:28] done.
[45:29] >> No, the point when there was confusion
[45:31] when the chair of the feasibility study
[45:33] came up
[45:35] >> why she had mentioned all the other
[45:36] options just to let the people know how
[45:38] that $50,000 was spent. That was the
[45:41] purpose of saying of all of that. We
[45:44] wanted folks to know the citizens to
[45:46] know that the money that they approved
[45:48] at that last town meeting where it went
[45:50] and it wasn't wasted and this isn't
[45:52] starting from scratch. So they can take
[45:54] that and now it's time to tweak it and
[45:56] get fine-tuned and get the do the
[45:58] dollars
[45:59] >> and there's they have huge P publicity
[46:02] coming out all kinds of FAQs. So let the
[46:05] process happen. I mean not to so that's where we are now and
[46:11] >> so we just want to hope that at the town
[46:14] meeting there will be people there who
[46:16] both support the expenditure for the
[46:19] senior center and the people that might
[46:21] not but that's up to these people to
[46:24] decide okay
[46:25] >> you know if we if it's going to I'm with
[46:28] you on this
[46:28] >> I I will ask um I'll I'll support this
[46:31] to get put on the um
[46:34] on the town meeting as a town
[46:36] But I'm going to take the floor and I'm
[46:38] going to ask some questions.
[46:38] >> That's right.
[46:39] >> And hope you ask come to open house.
[46:41] >> How big is it going to be? What is it 11
[46:43] million? Is it 14 million? I don't think
[46:45] >> we encourage they encourage questions
[46:46] and I keep saying that because I'm the
[46:48] non- voting member on the advisory. So,
[46:50] but thank you.
[46:51] >> Yeah.
[46:51] >> Can we vote now?
[46:52] >> Yes.
[46:53] >> So, motion is second.
[46:55] >> Um, all in favor? I I
[46:58] >> I
[47:04] » have a hard time with the two.
[47:06] >> Yeah, I am. Well, obviously I am too
[47:09] >> because the Yeah, I can't change my
[47:15] » I
[47:18] » thank you.
[47:22] » Moving on to article six.
[47:25] This is for transfer to and from
[47:27] stabilization funds. Um our
[47:30] recommendation on this one is $100,000
[47:33] from free cash to the general
[47:34] stabilization fund to maintain our
[47:37] stabilization fund according to reserve
[47:39] policy. Um $50,000 to the capital
[47:43] stabilization fund for the same purpose.
[47:47] uh $1 million from retained or sewer
[47:50] retained earnings to the sewer
[47:51] stabilization fund and $400,000 from the
[47:55] water retained earnings water
[47:57] stabilization fund.
[48:01] >> All right. I'll entertain a motion that
[48:03] the finance committee support article 6
[48:05] as presented.
[48:07] >> Motion.
[48:07] >> I have a motion. I have a second. Any
[48:09] discussion?
[48:12] There being none, all those in favor say
[48:13] yes.
[48:14] >> Yes. I
[48:16] >> it's unanimous
[48:19] » and a motion from the board for article
[48:22] six.
[48:23] >> I move that um the select board supports
[48:25] recommends article six as presented.
[48:28] >> Second.
[48:29] >> All in favor?
[48:30] >> I I
[48:33] >> All right. Article seven to amend
[48:35] general bylaws chapter 110 animal
[48:37] control. Essentially, this is the um
[48:40] board's request to add in a u Z license
[48:46] fee for seniors and create a new
[48:49] exemption for veterans. Uh we did
[48:51] receive uh some feedback from legal
[48:54] counsel related to um the original way
[48:57] that you guys had proposed the motion.
[48:59] They noted that because it is not an
[49:02] exemption under chapter M or MGL chapter
[49:05] 140 section 139 that there needs to be a
[49:09] delta between the fee for um an intact
[49:13] dog versus a spade and neutered dog. So
[49:17] we can't do zero on both on both of
[49:19] them. So there has to be some type of
[49:21] fee for uh the senior citizen class and
[49:25] the veteran class. So, I don't know if
[49:27] you guys have any recommendations for
[49:29] that.
[49:34] » Andrew, do you have a recommendation for
[49:35] that? To make it $5 and zero or
[49:38] >> that was a recommendation that I had
[49:40] received from member not here this
[49:41] evening. So,
[49:43] >> okay.
[49:45] >> To amend as five
[49:47] >> to Yeah.
[49:47] >> Okay. $5 for intact and zero for Okay.
[49:52] >> A motion and a second.
[49:56] Did we get a second?
[49:57] >> Second.
[49:58] >> All in favor?
[49:58] >> I
[50:02] unanimous.
[50:08] » I I will entertain a motion that we the
[50:11] finance committee supports article 7 as
[50:13] amended.
[50:14] >> Motion.
[50:15] >> Second.
[50:16] >> Motion. I have a second. Any discussion?
[50:19] >> There being none, all those in favor say
[50:21] yes.
[50:21] >> Yes.
[50:22] >> Ray.
[50:23] >> Yes. Yes, it's unanimous.
[50:30] » You guys take a motion on
[50:32] recommendation.
[50:34] >> Oh, a motion on a recommendation. Do I
[50:37] hear one?
[50:38] >> Second.
[50:42] » I I move to
[50:43] >> Do I have a second?
[50:44] >> Second.
[50:45] >> All in favor?
[50:46] >> I
[50:47] >> All right. Article A is to amend general
[50:49] bylaw chapter 155 of licenses and
[50:53] permits. Uh this is actually requested
[50:54] through the building commissioner. This
[50:56] is just a mod uh to meet current master
[51:00] law related to delinquent tax uh pair
[51:03] and withholding of permits. Um it just
[51:06] adds in uh so currently the statute says
[51:09] the collector shall annually furnish and
[51:11] we're adding an inmate periodically and
[51:14] then striking out the language for not
[51:17] less than a 12 month period as it
[51:19] relates to uh look bad period. This is
[51:23] just to comply with current state law.
[51:30] » I'll entertain a motion that the finance
[51:31] committee support article 8 as
[51:33] presented. I'll make a motion.
[51:35] >> I have a motion. I have a second. Any
[51:38] discussion?
[51:39] >> There being none, all those in favor say
[51:41] yes.
[51:44] >> Unanimous.
[51:47] » And motion from the board.
[51:49] >> I move to support article 8 as written.
[51:54] >> A second.
[51:55] >> Second. All in favor?
[51:57] >> I.
[52:00] Article nine is to accept Mass General
[52:02] law chapter 138 section 33B uh sales for
[52:06] alcoholic beverages on premise license
[52:08] on Sundays in certain legal holidays.
[52:11] Um, essentially what this does is allow
[52:13] the local licensing authority, aka the
[52:16] select board, to um issue the the
[52:20] allowed times for opening on Sundays to
[52:22] go back to 10:00 a.m. Currently, without
[52:26] acceptance of the statute, noon is the
[52:28] earliest time. Believe there's currently
[52:30] legislation on the or not. There's
[52:32] currently a bill before the House right
[52:34] now, it's being considered that any town
[52:35] that accept the accepts this may go back
[52:38] to 8:00, but that's still pending in the
[52:40] legisle. But um first the first step
[52:42] would essentially be to accept this.
[52:45] >> Yeah. Okay.
[52:48] >> I'll accept a motion from the board.
[52:50] Motion to approve article 9 as written.
[52:52] >> Second.
[52:53] >> All in favor?
[52:57] » All right. And the final one that the
[52:58] board needs to take action on would be
[53:01] relative to article 10, acceptance of
[53:02] Ashley Road and Amber Road as public
[53:04] ways. You previously held your public
[53:06] hearing related to this, so a formal
[53:08] recommendation would be suggested.
[53:11] [snorts]
[53:14] » Okay. Do I have a motion?
[53:17] >> I move to support article 10 as written.
[53:21] >> Second.
[53:22] >> All in favor?
[53:23] >> I.
[53:25] >> Unanimous.
[53:28] and that the rest we don't have to um
[53:31] rest is you can adjourn your meeting
[53:35] a motion we adjourn the meeting
[53:37] >> motion I have a second any discussion
[53:40] there being none all those in favor say
[53:41] yes
[53:42] >> yes we're returned
[53:45] >> good night
[53:51] » able to log off soon before we move on
[53:53] to the next
[53:54] >> thanks
[54:04] Thank you much.
[54:08] » On to our 7 o'
[54:29] Somebody likes me.
[54:33] [clears throat]
[54:41] All right.
[54:42] it being well past 7 o'clock. Um, you
[54:46] have on your agenda Russ and Irish
[54:48] Jennings discussed complaints related to
[54:50] August 1st, 2026 event at the board's
[54:53] August 11, 2026 meeting. Police Chief
[54:55] Dow noted his concerns regarding the
[54:57] event held at 508 International on
[54:59] August 1st, 2026, regarding numerous
[55:02] complaints received from the event,
[55:03] including traffic and parking issues on
[55:05] Brookfield Road interfering with normal
[55:08] traffic flow. Uh both Russ and Irish
[55:10] Jennings have been invited to tonight's
[55:11] meeting and are here uh tonight to
[55:14] address the issues before you along with
[55:15] Chief D. Okay.
[55:16] >> And welcome Russ.
[55:18] >> Good evening Dave.
[55:21] >> So there was an event held at 508 on
[55:24] Saturday, August 1st.
[55:27] That event kind of got overwhelming as
[55:29] far as parking spaces. So the the
[55:31] parkers decided to park in residential
[55:34] areas causing a lot of disturbances to
[55:36] neighbors and
[55:38] like 508 to be a successful business and
[55:41] succeed, but they have to do show a
[55:42] modicum of respect to their neighbors.
[55:45] >> That's all I got.
[55:47] >> Okay.
[55:49] >> Russ, do you have anything to I mean, we
[55:50] did we saw some of the complaints and
[55:52] some of them we got emails.
[55:55] Um, have you figured a way to rectify it
[55:58] or
[56:00] >> um Yeah, of course. uh you know in
[56:03] business anytime you uh you have a
[56:07] problem you always seek a solution so
[56:09] that you know it doesn't exist in the
[56:11] future and that's naturally what we're
[56:13] doing.
[56:14] >> Yeah. Is it just something that got out
[56:16] of hand or or was it
[56:19] >> um
[56:20] you know it it was really a lot of
[56:23] factors. Um but uh you know fortunately
[56:28] we have some answers and uh you know
[56:30] we're working some things to uh
[56:32] alleviate any problems like this in the
[56:34] future.
[56:38] » Any other questions from the board? I I
[56:40] don't
[56:42] um as far as notifying the town to let
[56:44] them know. That would be a
[56:47] to let to let the town know that that's
[56:48] happening would be a certainly a plus.
[56:51] Was it more employees that are needed or
[56:55] >> um No, I think it was just uh perfect
[56:59] storm if you would have it just a lot of
[57:02] different factors, but uh we've handled
[57:05] bigger crowds and we um you know we we
[57:10] tend to learn fairly quickly from our
[57:12] mistakes and like I say correct those
[57:15] pretty quickly. So
[57:19] » I guess my my concern is at you know,
[57:21] the number of ticket sales or something,
[57:23] you have an idea of the volume of
[57:25] people. I just think we need it when you
[57:27] get to a threshold, you have to have a
[57:30] now it's time to have a real plan in
[57:32] place, you know, or we'll wing it, you
[57:34] know, because that's what happens. And
[57:36] um again, I want the business to succeed
[57:38] or just just don't want problems in the
[57:40] neighborhood. I have no ill will towards
[57:42] the family. Uh I just can't have
[57:45] neighbors calling saying they can't get
[57:47] out of their driveways and people
[57:48] urinating their lawns and things that
[57:51] because of an overflow of a crowd. Um,
[57:55] >> and Russ, those are legitimate
[57:56] complaints, too. And those emails, we
[57:58] all got them that weekend and the the
[58:00] following week. I mean, it's
[58:01] >> Well, I'm not here to argue that.
[58:03] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[58:05] >> We're just trying to figure out what's
[58:06] going to help it in the future. You know
[58:08] what I mean? Is it more employees
[58:10] getting people in faster? Was it a clog
[58:11] on the driveway because people were
[58:13] parked in the streets? Were you just
[58:14] over capacity or what was it?
[58:17] >> No, I think uh, you know, again, there
[58:20] was There was a lot of different
[58:22] factors. Um, some factors that didn't
[58:24] even weren't even part of our control.
[58:27] There were uh numerous traffic
[58:30] situations
[58:31] well beyond 508 and well beyond Charlton
[58:34] that affected traffic coming to our
[58:37] facility at a certain point in time. So
[58:40] the early rush that normally happens
[58:42] didn't necessarily happen until late
[58:44] because traffic problems elsewhere. So
[58:47] what happened was it was, you know, they
[58:49] staggered these events starting at 8:00
[58:51] a.m. Well, the 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 traffic
[58:55] all got backed up. So as a result of
[58:57] that, that came when it was 9, 10, 11,
[59:00] and 12:00. Um, shortly after 12:00,
[59:06] actually when the detail officer came on
[59:08] duty,
[59:10] there was no problem from that point on
[59:12] because the traffic just dissolved
[59:14] because the peaks went away and those
[59:17] congestive issues ceased to happen. So,
[59:21] when I say there was a perfect storm,
[59:23] there was a lot of things that happened.
[59:24] But
[59:25] >> the parking was Yeah, even it didn't
[59:26] just go away. The parking was still an
[59:28] issue along the sides of the streets
[59:30] blocking the road and
[59:31] >> well once that happens then that's an issue until the people until
[59:36] the people leave naturally. I mean when
[59:38] you park a car that's you know so but
[59:41] again we we have uh we have dealt with
[59:45] larger crowds um and know how to rectify
[59:52] the situation in the future.
[59:54] If I may say something.
[59:56] >> Sure.
[59:57] >> Your officers did a wonderful job. Thank
[1:00:00] you.
[1:00:01] >> Thank you.
[1:00:01] >> And some of the neighbors wanted to come
[1:00:03] up this evening and explain what
[1:00:06] happened on parts of the Brookfield
[1:00:08] Road.
[1:00:09] Some people were taking people and
[1:00:12] directing them into their driveways and
[1:00:16] charging them to stay there.
[1:00:19] So I said, "No, please don't come up. We
[1:00:22] we're going to what everybody has to say
[1:00:25] and correct it. And like I said, your
[1:00:28] men did a fabulous job. Thank you.
[1:00:31] >> Thank you.
[1:00:32] >> The only thing that's difficult without
[1:00:34] any notice is, you know, obviously
[1:00:36] summer is for everybody likes to take
[1:00:38] their vacation time. So my staff is not
[1:00:40] unique to that. They want to be off
[1:00:42] during the summer. So we typically run,
[1:00:44] you know, unless we have an event or
[1:00:45] something, we run bare bones sometimes
[1:00:47] to accommodate vacation time off and
[1:00:49] stuff. And when you have a big event
[1:00:51] [clears throat] and it's tying up
[1:00:52] offices for several hours, it's not
[1:00:54] fair. It just it's avoidable. So, we
[1:00:56] just need to do something in the future
[1:00:58] so that it doesn't happen again. But at
[1:01:00] this point, it's water under the bridge.
[1:01:01] I can't go back and finish J Whoopi's
[1:01:03] time machine and make things right. It's
[1:01:06] just
[1:01:07] >> moving forward. We've got to work
[1:01:09] together so that doesn't happen again.
[1:01:11] Do do you have like an idea of how many
[1:01:13] people are going to show up for random
[1:01:14] events or is it just a Facebook event
[1:01:16] that people show is coming or going or
[1:01:20] >> sell tickets?
[1:01:20] >> Is there ticket sales for that?
[1:01:22] >> So there there is there is typically
[1:01:26] what we require from the venue or from
[1:01:28] the people who are leasing the venue is
[1:01:31] four weeks prior to the event a number
[1:01:34] of participants. Okay.
[1:01:36] >> Okay. But
[1:01:38] given that it's an outdoor event um
[1:01:41] weather
[1:01:42] >> weather has a factor was gorgeous day um
[1:01:46] late registration
[1:01:48] had record number of people register
[1:01:50] late that you know they had never seen
[1:01:53] before um again all part of the perfect
[1:01:56] storm. Um so a number that they are
[1:01:59] required to give us four weeks in
[1:02:00] advance now dramatically changes two
[1:02:04] days one day day of so you know but like
[1:02:09] I say we've um
[1:02:13] we have good thoughts in mind and you
[1:02:16] know we're working through the plan to
[1:02:18] make sure it doesn't happen again.
[1:02:22] >> Yeah. I think that's all that it is a
[1:02:24] communication between your us and the
[1:02:25] chief. you have those great ideas, if
[1:02:27] you want to communicate them with him
[1:02:29] ahead of time, I think they will
[1:02:30] resolve, you know, lots of those issues.
[1:02:34] >> Teamwork.
[1:02:37] » Yeah, I agree.
[1:02:42] » There's no there's really no ask here or
[1:02:45] vote. Just to kind of anything you can
[1:02:49] do not to not to let that happen again
[1:02:51] would be
[1:02:52] >> Well, I mean, I certainly don't want to
[1:02:53] be here.
[1:02:54] >> Yeah. No, I Nothing against you guys.
[1:02:57] Nothing against you.
[1:02:58] >> I know. You got call down to the person.
[1:03:02] >> I don't I don't want to pay a $1,400
[1:03:04] fine either. Yeah.
[1:03:06] >> For a police detail.
[1:03:07] >> So, you know, it's
[1:03:09] >> which you you ended up doing because
[1:03:12] Yeah.
[1:03:12] >> Right.
[1:03:14] And no, it wasn't only that, but I was I
[1:03:16] remember looking at was when that
[1:03:17] happened and the attendees were unhappy
[1:03:22] >> unhappy no parking and that it was
[1:03:24] disorganized when I was reading some of
[1:03:26] the comments from the attendees and
[1:03:27] that's not good for you either.
[1:03:29] >> Well, Mrs. Jennings is not wrong. Some
[1:03:30] people profit, so they're probably not
[1:03:33] as concerned. They had people in their
[1:03:35] parked in their lawns and such and you
[1:03:36] know saw
[1:03:37] >> Yeah.
[1:03:38] >> saw lemons and made lemonade.
[1:03:40] >> Yeah.
[1:03:42] Maybe if you can just put in your, you
[1:03:43] know, no parking on the roads, cars will
[1:03:46] be towed. Cars will be towed because we
[1:03:48] did talk about that. This is, this goes
[1:03:50] back a couple of months, but we talked
[1:03:52] about
[1:03:53] >> if you put in no parking tow signs,
[1:03:56] that's
[1:03:58] >> they have to be temporary because people
[1:04:00] might not want that in their front lawn,
[1:04:03] >> right?
[1:04:03] >> Residents.
[1:04:05] >> We're going to follow your suggestion,
[1:04:07] Stephen. You deal with those complaints
[1:04:08] from that.
[1:04:12] Wonderful idea.
[1:04:14] >> See, Steve thought of that one.
[1:04:15] >> I bet you did. I bet you did.
[1:04:18] >> I think just notification to the chief.
[1:04:20] Yeah. A month out when you get your
[1:04:22] first example of how many people you
[1:04:23] expect and maybe a week before and the
[1:04:25] day of what you're thinking.
[1:04:28] >> Just keep them in the loop.
[1:04:31] >> Y.
[1:04:33] >> Okay.
[1:04:34] >> All right. Thanks for your time this
[1:04:35] evening.
[1:04:36] >> Thank you, Chief.
[1:04:38] >> Thanks for asking. Thank you, Mr.
[1:04:40] Jennings.
[1:04:44] » Thank you.
[1:04:53] » Moving on to our last
[1:04:57] right last action item for this evening.
[1:04:59] Town's use of flock automated license
[1:05:01] plate readers. At the board September
[1:05:03] 8th, 2026 meeting, Michelle Charmers
[1:05:06] came before you and asked to place the
[1:05:09] town's use of flock automated license
[1:05:10] plate readers on tonight's agenda for
[1:05:12] discussion. She provided her office with
[1:05:15] two citizens petitions for the upcoming
[1:05:16] special town meeting, one binding and
[1:05:18] one non-binding regarding the flock
[1:05:20] automated license plate as well.
[1:05:22] Signatures were verified by the town
[1:05:24] clerk's office. We received a request to
[1:05:26] remove the binding citizens petition um
[1:05:28] due to legal um questions on it and keep
[1:05:32] the nonbinding petition on for the
[1:05:35] October special time meeting. This the
[1:05:37] decision relates to relate to contracts
[1:05:40] rest with the select board
[1:05:43] stumbling over my word there.
[1:05:45] >> The microphones don't seem to be working
[1:05:47] very well. I don't know. I couldn't hear
[1:05:50] anything back there.
[1:05:52] >> I don't know. Is there
[1:05:56] » that microphone not working well?
[1:05:58] >> I just couldn't really hear.
[1:05:59] >> I'm sorry. I speak really low, so that's
[1:06:02] my fault.
[1:06:03] >> I don't have that problem.
[1:06:11] » Well, good evening. Good evening,
[1:06:12] everyone. Michelle Chalmer's, 46 Prindel
[1:06:15] Hill Road. Um, first I want to uh
[1:06:18] obviously thank the board uh for placing
[1:06:21] Charlton's use of flock uh automated
[1:06:23] license plate readers on tonight's
[1:06:24] agenda and allowing this public
[1:06:27] discussion and vote to take place.
[1:06:30] uh more than 160 residents um signed a
[1:06:34] petition uh requesting action on these
[1:06:36] cameras. Uh those residents represent
[1:06:39] diverse perspectives. Uh this is not uh
[1:06:43] simply my personal concern. Uh it is a
[1:06:46] community request for transparency,
[1:06:49] accountability, and a decision u by our
[1:06:52] elected officials. Uh, town council has
[1:06:55] determined that decisions involving
[1:06:58] these contracts fall within the
[1:06:59] authority of the select board. So, the
[1:07:01] responsibility for deciding whether
[1:07:03] Charlton continues, expands, uh, or
[1:07:06] discontinues this system therefore rests
[1:07:09] with you. We recognize that license
[1:07:12] plate readers may assist police in
[1:07:15] certain investigations. Uh this effort
[1:07:18] is truly not about opposing our police
[1:07:21] department or dismissing uh legitimate
[1:07:24] public safety needs. Uh it is about
[1:07:27] whether the benefit of this system
[1:07:29] justify automatically collecting and
[1:07:33] making searchable the vehicle location
[1:07:36] information of people who are
[1:07:38] overwhelmingly suspected of no crime.
[1:07:42] Charlton currently operates four
[1:07:44] cameras. The records also show a
[1:07:47] separate agreement for four additional
[1:07:50] cameras that according to the police
[1:07:52] department have not yet been received or
[1:07:54] installed.
[1:07:56] The board has an opportunity to act
[1:07:59] before this system doubles in size.
[1:08:02] I respectfully ask the board to vote
[1:08:05] tonight to discontinue Charlton's use of
[1:08:08] flock, stop the installation of the four
[1:08:11] additional cameras, prevent automatic
[1:08:14] renewal, and direct the town
[1:08:17] administrator and town council to pursue
[1:08:20] every legally and financially
[1:08:21] appropriate termination and refund
[1:08:24] option.
[1:08:26] I wanted just to confirm Andrew I think
[1:08:28] what you were saying is that the
[1:08:30] citizens petition when you close the
[1:08:32] warrant it is still on the petition
[1:08:34] correct okay so we want to make sure
[1:08:36] that the citizens petition is still on
[1:08:38] the warrant for town meeting um and so
[1:08:43] um it can stay on the warrant we'll take
[1:08:45] it off um once uh the board takes action
[1:08:49] uh consistent what with what the
[1:08:51] residents uh request uh the residents
[1:08:54] have made their concerns known and
[1:08:56] there's more uh citizens that will speak
[1:08:59] tonight and I think you've also received
[1:09:01] some emails. So tonight we are asking
[1:09:03] the board to respond with a clear and
[1:09:06] recorded decision. So thank you.
[1:09:10] >> Okay, who wants to go first?
[1:09:12] >> I think
[1:09:15] would you like to come up?
[1:09:24] Hello, my name is Christopher Willow, 47
[1:09:26] Jennings Road.
[1:09:28] Um, I do know that flock cameras are,
[1:09:34] you know, generally that is a lot of
[1:09:35] discussion that people have burn brain
[1:09:38] up over privacy concerns. Um, despite
[1:09:42] other major concerns people would have
[1:09:44] about them, I would also like to discuss
[1:09:47] other major concerns that these cameras
[1:09:50] have been involved with that are also
[1:09:51] impacting the East Coast and
[1:09:53] Massachusetts. Um, so generally these
[1:09:58] cameras have been leading to false
[1:09:59] arrest and they also
[1:10:02] >> Excuse me. Could you pull the microphone
[1:10:03] a little closer?
[1:10:04] >> Yes, of course.
[1:10:04] >> Especially when you're covering the
[1:10:06] office.
[1:10:08] >> Thank you. These cameras have led to
[1:10:10] false arrest and also false hot list
[1:10:14] assignments. These cameras also assist
[1:10:16] with AI recognition which can be
[1:10:20] determined to cars and other people that
[1:10:23] predict patterns, behavioral patterns,
[1:10:26] and other physical traits inside cars,
[1:10:28] bumper stickers, and anything else that
[1:10:30] is recognizable on in their environment.
[1:10:34] These car, not cars, these cameras
[1:10:36] specifically, some ALPRs also work with
[1:10:40] um ICE and some of them also work with
[1:10:43] other surveilling networks like
[1:10:44] Palunteer. Um, of course, there's other
[1:10:47] major details out there about this. I'm
[1:10:49] just
[1:10:51] spreading out more info that some people
[1:10:54] may not know. Um,
[1:10:57] despite this though, there's a whole
[1:10:59] bunch of concerns about them. And I
[1:11:01] would also like to say besides flock um
[1:11:06] taking down um the power or more likely
[1:11:09] shutting these things off, they have not
[1:11:13] been quote unquote put down um because
[1:11:16] there are some been some cases where
[1:11:18] they have been released back up to be
[1:11:20] put on power and that was with unknown
[1:11:23] authority being access to playing them
[1:11:26] back up on power. So what I have seen
[1:11:29] most people do to actually stop these
[1:11:32] things being um put on
[1:11:36] um generally to stop the privacy
[1:11:41] concerns and all that they will cover
[1:11:43] them or generally they will just cover
[1:11:47] the camera or microphone or anything
[1:11:49] similar to that is what helps most of it
[1:11:52] stop. And it can also, in my opinion,
[1:11:54] generally see who is trying to mess with
[1:11:57] the camera or who's not. Um,
[1:12:01] besides that, um, I would also like to
[1:12:05] discuss how vulnerably these canals
[1:12:07] cannibers cameras are. Um, they are very
[1:12:10] vulnerable to other digital attacks.
[1:12:13] They are vulnerable to everyone. Um,
[1:12:17] very vulnerable in all perspectives. Um
[1:12:20] just like all technology it's very
[1:12:21] vulnerable. Um also there are other
[1:12:25] major ALPRs in this environment as well
[1:12:28] despite being flock and those other
[1:12:30] major ALPRs are also being um used as
[1:12:34] alternative when these flock cameras are
[1:12:36] going down. So I know we're not talking
[1:12:39] about other major ALPRs but despite the
[1:12:43] flock cameras going down they will be
[1:12:45] used as the alternative to be brought
[1:12:47] back up.
[1:12:49] Okay,
[1:12:54] thank you for that. Is there anybody
[1:12:55] else that's wishing to speak before
[1:12:57] >> I'm just curious where is all your
[1:12:59] knowledge coming from? Are you involved
[1:13:01] in any ways with
[1:13:02] >> Say again?
[1:13:03] >> Where is your knowledge coming from?
[1:13:05] >> It's coming from other civil cases
[1:13:08] considering um outside Massachusetts and
[1:13:11] inside Massachusetts. By civil cases you
[1:13:13] mean you read about them or you
[1:13:14] participated in them or you uh
[1:13:16] >> documented those
[1:13:18] >> it's documented some in newsletters some
[1:13:21] in post it's all variety um various
[1:13:25] government sources um that's all I can
[1:13:28] say but it's generally documented
[1:13:31] >> thank you
[1:13:31] >> yes of course
[1:13:32] >> on social media
[1:13:34] [clears throat]
[1:13:39] Sh.
[1:13:58] Good evening, members of the select
[1:13:59] board. My name is Brian Powers. I live
[1:14:01] at 48 Partridge Hill Road here in
[1:14:02] Charlton. Uh before I begin, I want to
[1:14:05] say clearly that our local police
[1:14:06] department is fantastic and I deeply
[1:14:08] appreciate the work they do to keep our
[1:14:09] community safe. I want to acknowledge
[1:14:12] that most locals have no idea that we
[1:14:13] already have six operational flock
[1:14:15] cameras hidden across town, including at
[1:14:17] the library, Stafford Street, Route 169
[1:14:20] by Amazon and the Mass Pike. A year ago,
[1:14:23] this technology was instituted with
[1:14:25] almost zero public comment. But things
[1:14:27] have changed since then. More than
[1:14:29] 120,000 of these AI cameras have sprung
[1:14:31] up. what seems like instantly across the
[1:14:34] country. What started as an isolated
[1:14:37] safety tool has rapidly scaled into a
[1:14:40] massive centralized corporate
[1:14:41] surveillance network and now we're
[1:14:44] talking about expanding our local
[1:14:45] footprint even further.
[1:14:48] While we all know that privacy concerns
[1:14:50] and abstract theories surrounding the n
[1:14:51] the nationwide scale exist, I'm not here
[1:14:54] tonight to debate them. Instead, I'm
[1:14:56] here to address the immediate
[1:14:57] operational, financial, and legal
[1:14:59] liabilities this specific contract
[1:15:01] brings to Charlton. Practical risks that
[1:15:04] our closest neighbors have already
[1:15:06] recognized and acted upon.
[1:15:09] We are an extreme outlier in our own
[1:15:11] backyard. Our direct neighbors are
[1:15:13] rapidly dismantling this exact system.
[1:15:16] South Beach has suspended its flock
[1:15:17] agreement due to lack of of guardrails.
[1:15:20] Auburn has ordered the complete
[1:15:21] deactivation and physical removal of its
[1:15:24] flock cameras. Douglas, Grafton, and
[1:15:26] Boilston have all followed suit and
[1:15:28] canceled their contract. If our closest
[1:15:31] neighboring towns have determined that
[1:15:32] flock is a liability, Charlton must ask,
[1:15:35] "Why are we doubling down by expanding
[1:15:37] it?"
[1:15:38] This is a procurement risk based on the
[1:15:40] exact same text we signed. Towns like
[1:15:42] South Bridge and Auburn halted or paused
[1:15:45] their programs because local officials
[1:15:47] in legal reviews raised serious alarms
[1:15:49] about the standard contract terms and
[1:15:51] municipal oversight. Because Flock Huses
[1:15:54] uniform boilerplate agreements
[1:15:56] nationwide, the contracts that
[1:15:58] Southbridge and Auburn found to be
[1:16:00] unacceptable are likely the exact same
[1:16:03] contracts that Charlton has signed. We
[1:16:05] need our town council to review this
[1:16:07] immediately before we deepen our
[1:16:09] financial and legal exposure.
[1:16:12] This is a massive fiscal and legal risk
[1:16:14] for our taxpayers. Independent audits of
[1:16:17] active deployments have revealed that
[1:16:19] Flock AI can suffer from error rates as
[1:16:21] high as 71%
[1:16:24] in vehicle reads. When a machine
[1:16:26] mistakes a zero for an O, it triggers a
[1:16:29] high-risisk felony stop. Towns across
[1:16:32] the country are facing massive civil
[1:16:33] rights lawsuits because innocent drivers
[1:16:35] are being pulled over at gunpoint due to
[1:16:37] software typos. By expanding this
[1:16:40] network, we are actively expanding
[1:16:42] Charlton's legal liability. I strongly
[1:16:44] support efficient public safety, but
[1:16:47] tools of this magnitude require deep
[1:16:49] public debate, clear metrics of success,
[1:16:52] and strict oversight. Tonight, I ask the
[1:16:55] select board to protect Charlton from
[1:16:57] legal liability, and align with our
[1:16:58] neighbors. Please vote to pause the
[1:17:01] expansion, place a moratorum on the
[1:17:03] current cameras, and direct town council
[1:17:06] to review the contract for termination.
[1:17:08] Thank you.
[1:17:09] >> Thank you.
[1:17:10] >> And not to add any other companies to do
[1:17:12] the same thing.
[1:17:14] >> I'm sorry. What was that?
[1:17:15] >> And not to add any other companies
[1:17:17] afterwards to do the same thing. Like
[1:17:19] don't just cancel Flock and bring on
[1:17:20] Axon. That doesn't do anything. It
[1:17:22] actually gets worse. So,
[1:17:24] >> okay.
[1:17:26] >> This um is there anybody else or
[1:17:35] Stephan Sage Lincoln Road? I just want
[1:17:38] to cl I'm also the chair of the
[1:17:39] Charleton Public Library. I just want to
[1:17:42] uh board of trustees. I just like to
[1:17:44] clarify that the flock camera or
[1:17:47] whatever kind of camera it is. It's was
[1:17:48] mentioned at the Charleton Library is
[1:17:51] not on Charleton Library's property. It
[1:17:53] is on the public sidewalk monitoring the
[1:17:56] crosswalk. Charlton Public Library had
[1:17:58] nothing to do about having a flock
[1:18:01] camera put into the library. Thank you.
[1:18:04] Okay.
[1:18:11] Is there anyone else to speak on the
[1:18:12] matter?
[1:18:21] » Uh, Zach Stiffler, 29 West Applewood
[1:18:23] Drive. Uh, good evening. Uh, I'm here
[1:18:26] tonight to ask the select board to
[1:18:28] terminate its contract with Flock and
[1:18:29] remove all existing cameras from the ch
[1:18:31] town of Charlton. Charlton already has
[1:18:34] one of the lowest crime rates in the
[1:18:35] state. So before we create a permanent
[1:18:37] infrastructure for tracking vehicles and
[1:18:39] recording the movements of innocent
[1:18:40] residents which can be accessed not only
[1:18:42] by local agencies but federal agencies,
[1:18:45] some of which are actively engaged in
[1:18:46] dismantling dismantling civil liberties,
[1:18:49] we should ask two simple questions. Is
[1:18:51] this level of surveillance truly
[1:18:52] necessary in a town with an admirably
[1:18:54] low crime rate? And more importantly,
[1:18:56] does the potential harm to innocent
[1:18:58] citizens outweigh its benefits? Flock
[1:19:01] cameras do not simply look for people
[1:19:02] who are suspected of crimes. They
[1:19:04] collect information on everyone who
[1:19:05] drives past them. That being the case,
[1:19:07] how long before an innocent person is
[1:19:09] charged with a crime they did not
[1:19:10] commit? Because a car similar to theirs
[1:19:12] was witnessed at a crime scene or
[1:19:14] because a crime occurred at a place they
[1:19:15] frequent. If you ask Lindsay Issacs of
[1:19:18] Florida, Eve Pisarelli of Rhode Island,
[1:19:20] or Chisana of Colorado, they will tell
[1:19:22] you it has already happened. These are
[1:19:24] just the first instances in which
[1:19:25] individuals have suffered despite law
[1:19:27] enforcement acting in good faith. And I
[1:19:29] believe if mass surveillance uh becomes
[1:19:31] the norm, it is reasonable to assume it
[1:19:32] will not be the last. Uh for the sake of
[1:19:35] time, I will not go into detail
[1:19:36] regarding the potential for as well as
[1:19:38] numerous documented cases of abuse
[1:19:40] resulting from members of law
[1:19:41] enforcement not acting in good faith.
[1:19:43] However, and with no disrespect to
[1:19:45] Charlton Police Department, I will
[1:19:47] mention that a cursory Google search
[1:19:48] will provide no shortage of examples,
[1:19:50] including four that have occurred in
[1:19:52] Massachusetts. Uh the erosion of the
[1:19:54] Fourth Amendment is no longer a
[1:19:55] hypothetical concern. It is occurring in
[1:19:58] real time and affecting innocent
[1:19:59] citizens. I urge the board to find
[1:20:01] itself on the right side of history by
[1:20:02] rejecting mass surveillance, voting to
[1:20:04] remove flock cameras, rejecting further
[1:20:06] expansion of the system, and putting
[1:20:08] civil liberties and public trust before
[1:20:09] convenience. Thank you.
[1:20:17] » Is there anyone else to talk on that
[1:20:19] before we start talking?
[1:20:24] [clears throat]
[1:20:26] I'll start off on this. So when this started percolating over the
[1:20:33] summer,
[1:20:34] we started seeing a lot of things about
[1:20:37] flock and all that type of thing. The
[1:20:39] town of Charlton put them in place two
[1:20:41] years ago, not one year ago.
[1:20:44] There was discussion. It was an open
[1:20:46] meeting, just like the meeting tonight.
[1:20:48] It was posted.
[1:20:50] Um
[1:20:52] there was discussion back and forth
[1:20:53] about it when all this hype started this
[1:20:55] summer.
[1:20:57] Um,
[1:20:58] it's actually was it was Mike and I were
[1:21:00] talking about it at the end of July,
[1:21:02] early in a in August,
[1:21:05] and I thought it was important. Mike was
[1:21:07] actually um on that on the on the side
[1:21:10] of being against them,
[1:21:13] and I was trying to explain to him what
[1:21:15] we learned when we voted to put them in.
[1:21:21] So, a refresher was needed. So, we met
[1:21:23] with PD. I think all of us have
[1:21:25] individually if not Mike and I went
[1:21:27] together and YouTube went individually
[1:21:29] went through a training course on flock
[1:21:32] and we learned what the cameras do what
[1:21:34] they can't do
[1:21:36] we excluded all the hype
[1:21:38] um
[1:21:40] and it's it's a confusing part and I can
[1:21:42] understand why the public is confused
[1:21:46] but the um flock is not a pl is they
[1:21:49] confuse it with the platforms that mail
[1:21:51] tickets to you
[1:21:53] that's A lot of people are confusing it
[1:21:55] with flock is
[1:21:59] >> okay. Okay. Very good. Very good.
[1:22:01] [clears throat] Let me finish. Let me
[1:22:03] finish.
[1:22:04] It's not a It's not a platform that
[1:22:06] mails tickets. It doesn't have that
[1:22:09] technology. It is It is a simple little
[1:22:11] box
[1:22:13] that records.
[1:22:16] » Excuse me. Could I finish though? It is
[1:22:18] a simple box. We've watched the
[1:22:20] demonstrations from PD. The camera
[1:22:23] itself is what I'm talking about now.
[1:22:24] It's a simple box that takes pictures.
[1:22:27] It is a It is no It's pictures of a
[1:22:31] license plate. Flock does not have any
[1:22:34] facial recognition in a camera. It does
[1:22:37] not take video.
[1:22:39] >> It's not just the license plate. You can
[1:22:42] see the entire area of where the camera.
[1:22:45] >> It takes the back of the car and it it's
[1:22:47] and it stores that information.
[1:22:49] >> Right.
[1:22:51] It is a It is a
[1:22:53] >> but it doesn't have the ability to tell
[1:22:55] you who is driving that car.
[1:22:58] >> It does not.
[1:22:59] >> Your camera might not, but their system
[1:23:00] does.
[1:23:01] >> Their clock system does not. That's
[1:23:04] where people are wrong.
[1:23:05] >> To somebody else who does. What's the
[1:23:06] difference?
[1:23:08] >> So, so what we So, we went Mike and I
[1:23:11] went yesterday and we had a meeting with
[1:23:15] Back Downer PD and Flock representatives
[1:23:17] on Zoom. They were for them and they
[1:23:19] explained the system. You can you can
[1:23:22] laugh all you want.
[1:23:24] >> Um
[1:23:26] we're terrified.
[1:23:27] >> Why would you? It's it's
[1:23:29] >> dangerous.
[1:23:30] >> So you trust software people that are
[1:23:33] manufacturing it over
[1:23:35] >> who owns it?
[1:23:36] >> Just
[1:23:38] a ton of water, please.
[1:23:40] >> What happens is the people at home when
[1:23:42] we're all talking, they can't hear what
[1:23:44] you're saying. And I've had many
[1:23:46] requests saying, "Hey, could you please
[1:23:47] remind folks if they want to say
[1:23:49] something? Come up so we can all hear
[1:23:51] you." Otherwise, the people at home
[1:23:52] can't hear what you're saying. So,
[1:23:55] excuse me for interrupting.
[1:23:57] >> Um, and I would just also like to say, I
[1:23:59] know we have the police chief here, not
[1:24:01] to put him on the spot, but if he I
[1:24:03] think offering him the opportunity to
[1:24:05] say a couple of things if he chooses. If
[1:24:07] not, that's
[1:24:08] >> I I'd like to finish just what I was
[1:24:10] saying because I if I may. All right.
[1:24:12] So, we
[1:24:14] you can, believe it or not, you can
[1:24:16] watch the demonstration.
[1:24:18] It's if you'd like to do that. The um
[1:24:21] it's a law enforcement tool.
[1:24:24] It It reads and stores a license plate.
[1:24:28] That is it. It does not do facial
[1:24:30] recognition. It does not do video. It
[1:24:33] takes
[1:24:35] a a trained law enforcement officer
[1:24:38] with a case with a case. He has to have
[1:24:41] a case number and a reason and a license
[1:24:43] plate number to type in that license
[1:24:45] plate and then they can look in and say
[1:24:48] and hit a camera and say, "You know
[1:24:50] what? That stolen car was on Stafford
[1:24:52] Street an hour ago." That's the only
[1:24:55] way. It's not looking for a crime. It's a tool to solve a crime. It and it
[1:25:01] doesn't do anything more than store
[1:25:04] license plate. It doesn't store the
[1:25:05] person's name, their information, where
[1:25:07] they live, their address. That is a
[1:25:09] separate tool that law enforcement has
[1:25:10] had in place for decades where they they
[1:25:14] use the seizure system where they use
[1:25:15] their they go in and tune it up and then
[1:25:19] they go searching for it.
[1:25:21] It's um
[1:25:24] the data as far as storing data right
[1:25:26] now the data flock flock stores the data
[1:25:28] for 30 days and then they erase it.
[1:25:32] There was legislation around the country
[1:25:34] that they're trying to make that 21
[1:25:36] days.
[1:25:37] Flock is now putting in what we learned
[1:25:39] yesterday is that they may put in a in a
[1:25:43] in the ability to re erase the
[1:25:45] information in seven days. That would be
[1:25:48] up to the choice of a of a police chief
[1:25:51] to do that. Um state legislation is also
[1:25:54] kicking in. You're seeing it in the
[1:25:56] state house. They're talking about it.
[1:25:58] What was it in um in Virginia? They're
[1:26:00] looking at a 21day
[1:26:02] just to erase all the information on
[1:26:04] fly. It is it is no different than going
[1:26:07] outside and taking a photograph of the
[1:26:09] back of my car right now. That it's it's
[1:26:12] the same it's the same thing. You can
[1:26:14] laugh.
[1:26:15] >> Is that
[1:26:15] >> I've I've watched the demonstrations.
[1:26:17] >> Can we watch the demonstrations?
[1:26:19] >> Yes, of course. Please do. Not tonight,
[1:26:21] but yes. You know, that's you know,
[1:26:24] that's probably the best point I've
[1:26:25] heard from from the from the
[1:26:28] >> the the opponents of this whole system
[1:26:30] tonight is can we watch it? Absolutely.
[1:26:32] The problem is education.
[1:26:34] >> Yes. Is that just the brochure or is
[1:26:36] there data saying that this is legit?
[1:26:38] Because I mean
[1:26:39] >> you could look at two things if if the
[1:26:41] chief allows it. You could look at what
[1:26:43] an officer does when he has a he has to
[1:26:46] have a case file a case number and a
[1:26:49] license plate in order to log into the
[1:26:51] system.
[1:26:52] >> Is that
[1:26:55] I you know I can't speak I can't Yeah.
[1:26:58] You know point of order though. Yeah.
[1:27:00] Please if if
[1:27:01] >> what's up the chief?
[1:27:03] Yeah, [laughter]
[1:27:05] >> may maybe some you know that was a good
[1:27:06] point though I did for bringing it up
[1:27:08] because we did talk about that it's
[1:27:10] really an educational process more than
[1:27:13] >> more than
[1:27:14] >> I would like it to be known that the
[1:27:16] case number thing is a new part of the
[1:27:18] system within the last month uh police
[1:27:20] officers were not required to have a
[1:27:22] case number before
[1:27:24] >> I can't I can't
[1:27:25] >> everything anything anything and
[1:27:27] everything from the officer physically
[1:27:29] logging in to the website is time and
[1:27:32] date stamp recorded from their names,
[1:27:34] the officer's names, the date, the time,
[1:27:37] and then they have to have a reason in
[1:27:39] order to pull the request to get the
[1:27:41] information, which would be a picture.
[1:27:43] Um, we have sat through hours of
[1:27:46] training uh through this. We had uh like
[1:27:50] Steve said, we had flock on on webinar.
[1:27:53] We zoomed with them for several hours.
[1:27:55] Um, I poked around because I like
[1:27:58] yourself had many questions from from
[1:28:01] the whole big brother surveillance kind
[1:28:03] of thing. Um, right down to is it
[1:28:06] tracking me where I go, how I get there.
[1:28:08] It's none of that. I I have to tell you
[1:28:11] I was completely
[1:28:13] I don't want to say upset, but I was a
[1:28:14] little upset at what these cameras
[1:28:16] actually had the functionalities and
[1:28:18] capabilities of doing. I I have wildlife
[1:28:21] cameras out in the woods that take way
[1:28:23] better pictures and are way more
[1:28:24] detailed than these. These things just
[1:28:27] take six pictures every second
[1:28:30] continuously, non-stop.
[1:28:33] >> Go ahead.
[1:28:38] » Yeah, we're gonna have to Sorry about
[1:28:40] that. just
[1:28:41] >> um I believe Boston just got rid of them
[1:28:43] because one of the concerns was that
[1:28:46] even the even though the contract said
[1:28:47] that it would not or it would only take
[1:28:50] it for 21 days, 30 days, whatever it may
[1:28:52] be, that wasn't the case. They were
[1:28:54] finding it going into national databases
[1:28:56] being logged in these data centers.
[1:28:58] They'll stay there forever and then if
[1:29:00] they ever want to find anything about
[1:29:01] anybody, they can just type something in
[1:29:03] and it has our whole entire life in
[1:29:06] there. Like it's so it's just
[1:29:07] >> So that's not that's not the case.
[1:29:08] >> That's not the case. We we've released
[1:29:10] copies of contracts. We've released
[1:29:11] copies of terms and conditions. We we've
[1:29:14] asked the same questions to the chief. I
[1:29:17] asked Flock themselves the same thing.
[1:29:20] We own the data. We own the information
[1:29:22] that these cameras take these pictures.
[1:29:25] Nobody else gets them. And after I
[1:29:27] believe it's 30 days now, everything
[1:29:29] deletes and goes away. And and that is
[1:29:31] per the contract. That's that's written
[1:29:33] in there.
[1:29:34] >> And then I mean
[1:29:36] audit.
[1:29:38] >> Yes.
[1:29:40] the chief of police and whoever he
[1:29:42] assumes I'm assuming probably a captain
[1:29:44] and again there's a report that
[1:29:45] >> come
[1:29:48] we don't trust anybody else
[1:29:50] >> again no disrespect to the police but
[1:29:53] >> should there not be an independent third
[1:29:55] party agency making sure that the data
[1:29:57] is secure
[1:29:58] >> there is there is that's what I asked
[1:30:00] same thing
[1:30:02] >> I don't have the name of the company
[1:30:03] that does it
[1:30:04] >> actually but it's validated
[1:30:05] >> if we can stay on one if you're you all
[1:30:08] done with. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine.
[1:30:11] >> Dan, you want to you want to
[1:30:14] put put you on the spot
[1:30:17] >> for anybody? This is our chief of police
[1:30:18] stand out.
[1:30:19] >> Welcome myself to the Lions, right?
[1:30:21] >> Yeah. Well, hey. Yeah.
[1:30:25] >> And Lieutenant Gribbons
[1:30:26] >> what flock does and doesn't do. Nobody
[1:30:30] wants to live in a police state. Nobody
[1:30:32] wants to be constantly under
[1:30:33] surveillance. When you have a flock
[1:30:36] camera, we'll use the live near the
[1:30:38] library. Sorry, near the library. When a
[1:30:41] plate goes by, it takes approximately
[1:30:43] six pictures of either your license
[1:30:46] plate or vehicle description. So, per
[1:30:48] second per second. So, it's not a video
[1:30:50] that's constantly running, but it's six
[1:30:53] quick snapshots. So, if somebody said,
[1:30:56] "Hey, I just got into a hit and run and
[1:30:57] a red pickup truck came by." We could
[1:31:00] now go and say, "We've got a hit and
[1:31:01] run. Did any red pickup trucks go by in
[1:31:03] the last five minutes?
[1:31:06] I could look at hours and hours of
[1:31:08] traditional video, but it wouldn't do
[1:31:10] all that work for me and just find it.
[1:31:11] What it's going to show me is a picture
[1:31:13] of your vehicles. People like, "What if
[1:31:15] the data gets released?" What Steve was
[1:31:17] implying was what gets released is a
[1:31:20] picture of your license plate. It
[1:31:21] doesn't. We have to do another step and
[1:31:23] go into what's called CIS and then run
[1:31:25] that license plate to get your personal
[1:31:26] information, which isn't part of the
[1:31:28] flock system. What the flex system is
[1:31:30] going to show is a picture of possible
[1:31:32] vehicle red pickup truck license plate
[1:31:35] 123 ABC. That's all we got. Now, that
[1:31:39] may you may not be the person that
[1:31:42] caused what of the hit and run, but at
[1:31:43] least it gives us like three vehicles
[1:31:46] matching that description went by. We
[1:31:47] can go talk to three people. Oh, geez,
[1:31:49] you've got front end damage. You're
[1:31:50] probably the person that just did the
[1:31:52] hit and run. That's what we would do
[1:31:53] with that information. Um, Anthony can
[1:31:56] speak much more eloquently about it. Uh,
[1:31:59] as far as the technology,
[1:32:01] >> so the technology takes six stills per excuse me, six stills per second.
[1:32:07] Um, it's not a, like the chief said,
[1:32:09] it's not a continuous video feed. Um,
[1:32:13] sometimes if a vehicle is traveling too
[1:32:15] fast, it doesn't catch it. Um,
[1:32:19] you know, it it uh it's set up on an
[1:32:22] algorithm. It works off the algorithm.
[1:32:24] It's not recording, like you said,
[1:32:26] video. It doesn't record voice. Um, and
[1:32:32] >> go ahead.
[1:32:32] >> This is just in the current state,
[1:32:34] right? There could be updates later
[1:32:35] where this
[1:32:36] >> I don't think we're interested in
[1:32:37] updating beyond that. I mean, we're not
[1:32:39] looking to get into like shot spotter
[1:32:41] and all these other things.
[1:32:42] >> Yeah. I think there's a fear of
[1:32:45] technology in general, like, oh my god,
[1:32:46] this is what's going to happen next.
[1:32:48] That's not what we're looking to do. But
[1:32:50] yeah, once it's in there, it's hard to
[1:32:51] get out.
[1:32:52] >> As a police chief, I don't know what I
[1:32:54] say to the family of Molly Bish or Holly
[1:32:57] Perini that we couldn't have helped
[1:32:59] identify a vehicle, maybe found that
[1:33:01] child before something tragic happened.
[1:33:04] You sure? You know, um we're not looking
[1:33:06] for we're not working with ICE that
[1:33:08] doesn't know a person's name. It doesn't
[1:33:10] have the ability to do that. But what it
[1:33:12] does is a red pickup truck. We can say
[1:33:14] that many red pickup truck go by Chevy
[1:33:17] and it could identify three or four
[1:33:19] Chevy red pickup trucks went by. If we
[1:33:22] were to say um you know this is the
[1:33:25] possible license plate, you know, 123
[1:33:27] ABC, it would say, "Hey, it went by the
[1:33:30] library heading that direct towards CVS,
[1:33:33] but it doesn't tell us where where you
[1:33:35] came from, what you were thinking about
[1:33:36] going to." I mean, people have this idea
[1:33:39] that it it's plotting out their whole
[1:33:41] day and saying, you know, is it going to
[1:33:43] tell me that I was having an affair on
[1:33:45] my wife? It it doesn't do any of that.
[1:33:47] It really doesn't. It literally takes a
[1:33:48] snapshot, which hopefully with six
[1:33:50] snapshots, we can get a license plate.
[1:33:53] It's not perfect. Doesn't always happen.
[1:33:55] >> It's true.
[1:33:56] But it gives us a better chance of
[1:33:58] finding a missing person, finding an
[1:34:01] elderly person with dementia that the
[1:34:03] family, you know, a a wife wakes up in
[1:34:06] the morning and says, "Hey, my my
[1:34:07] husband has dementia. The car is missing
[1:34:09] and you know, stuff like that." Um, now
[1:34:12] a lot of times all we can tell them is
[1:34:13] it went down Stafford Street where it
[1:34:15] went, we can say a direction of travel
[1:34:17] that we got a flock hit on that vehicle,
[1:34:20] the missing person, right? where it
[1:34:22] went, but we got a time frame that hey,
[1:34:24] it went by at 8 o'clock this morning,
[1:34:27] but we won't know that until we go look.
[1:34:28] >> Are you telling me that the system will
[1:34:30] not when you search that vehicle on that
[1:34:34] give you every hit in an area?
[1:34:37] >> What do you mean by that? So like
[1:34:39] >> when you search when you search for a a
[1:34:42] vehicle, are you searching for based on
[1:34:44] characteristics of the vehicle? Are you
[1:34:46] searching for based on plate? plate is
[1:34:49] our our primary,
[1:34:51] >> but you could be looking for a
[1:34:52] description to your point. So, it does
[1:34:53] two things. It does license plates.
[1:34:55] Sometimes people get the license plate
[1:34:57] wrong. They're off the digit or
[1:34:58] something like that. So, you can put it
[1:35:00] in. It comes up with close matches or
[1:35:03] you may get an exact match or vehicle
[1:35:05] description. It was a It was a brown
[1:35:06] van. Okay. So, we can put in we're
[1:35:08] looking for a brown van in the last 20
[1:35:11] minutes. Did it go by these cameras? But
[1:35:13] it doesn't tell us. You could be in
[1:35:15] town, but you didn't go by the flock
[1:35:17] camera. So that doesn't mean you're not
[1:35:19] in town. It just simply means you didn't
[1:35:20] go by a caught on say
[1:35:26] » when you do that search, what is your
[1:35:28] limit? What is your limit in terms of
[1:35:30] time?
[1:35:31] >> What is your li limit in terms of
[1:35:33] location that the system returns? So
[1:35:36] we're limited maximum maximum
[1:35:38] >> our maximum limitation currently is 30
[1:35:41] days
[1:35:43] >> and distance location
[1:35:46] >> no wide
[1:35:48] >> we we can search nationwide if other
[1:35:50] departments have given us permission to
[1:35:51] search the cameras
[1:35:53] >> so that's a home petition thing where
[1:35:56] you basically say are you willing to
[1:35:58] share your information in Texas if they
[1:36:00] are then we could in theory say hey has
[1:36:03] this vehicle been anywhere in the last
[1:36:05] 30
[1:36:06] It was it was in Texas.
[1:36:10] >> But unfortunately, we're trying to limit
[1:36:13] if we can have just one conversation.
[1:36:14] >> We're trying to limit it to New England
[1:36:16] for the most part unless it's a serious investigation.
[1:36:21] » Roadways that that do come in trouble,
[1:36:24] right? Or areas where I'll give you an
[1:36:26] example. Stolen cars in in Charleton,
[1:36:30] they end up in Connecticut and they go
[1:36:32] to New Jersey, they go to they go to New
[1:36:34] York. Okay, drugs. Drugs that are coming
[1:36:37] into trouble are coming out of the
[1:36:39] south. Okay, they're coming out of
[1:36:41] Atlanta. They're coming out of Florida.
[1:36:43] Um,
[1:36:45] and we have roads adjacent to us that travel into those areas. Okay. Um,
[1:36:53] Charlton does not have like you're not
[1:36:57] seeing it's it's not
[1:37:00] you're not seeing handhand drug
[1:37:02] transactions in Charlton as much. they occur. Okay. But in Charlton, uh we
[1:37:09] are a the way the way I think to best
[1:37:13] describe it is we are the hub on a wheel
[1:37:17] of just roads. Okay? We have a lot of
[1:37:20] access to big roads. We have a lot of
[1:37:21] roads close by and our roads connect to
[1:37:25] other big roads. Okay? A lot of drugs
[1:37:28] come through. There's no that's not a
[1:37:30] secret. Okay? Um, and if you go to
[1:37:33] Dudley District Court and wonder, hey,
[1:37:36] why are there so many trafficking
[1:37:38] arrests in this area? It's because of
[1:37:39] the roads that are here. Okay. Um, and
[1:37:42] those roads, we all use them every day,
[1:37:44] but drug dealers and drug traffickers
[1:37:46] use them every day, too. Uh, and people
[1:37:49] doing other crimes, too.
[1:37:50] >> So, if there's an Amber Alert, not all
[1:37:52] drug, that's not always criminal, but if
[1:37:54] there's an Amber Alert for somebody
[1:37:55] missing or an elderly person, we can
[1:37:57] literally put that plate in and get an
[1:37:59] activation if they come into town. We
[1:38:01] may not be able to catch them or find
[1:38:03] them because they're continuing to
[1:38:04] drive, but at least we got we can notify
[1:38:06] the surrounding communities. Hey, this
[1:38:08] vehicle just went down Stafford Street.
[1:38:10] Don't know where it's headed, but it's
[1:38:12] in the area. It also puts vehicles that
[1:38:15] we're looking for. They're now in New
[1:38:16] Bedford. There's no reason for us to be
[1:38:18] driving around aimlessly looking for
[1:38:20] them anymore. We know they're not in the
[1:38:22] area. So, that's why sometimes it does
[1:38:23] help to reach out. Does the contract
[1:38:25] limit you to the
[1:38:29] is the contract limited specifically to
[1:38:32] the ALPRs that are currently built or
[1:38:35] does it does it also allow for
[1:38:40] oh
[1:38:42] does it allow for the condor models that
[1:38:45] allow free form? No, we we have Falcon
[1:38:48] models right now. Um those are the the
[1:38:51] ones that we have. Those are our
[1:38:52] contract. Um everything that I am seeing
[1:38:56] okay regarding Falcon there's no voice
[1:38:59] recognition. There's no facial
[1:39:00] recognition in that.
[1:39:02] >> Is there anything preventing the
[1:39:04] installation?
[1:39:06] >> We wouldn't sign a contract for a condor
[1:39:08] model. We can only sign for models.
[1:39:14] » Ian, to your point earlier, we can only
[1:39:17] search flock.
[1:39:19] >> Okay. So we can't search an ax on
[1:39:22] camera. We can't search
[1:39:23] >> not not via this not via this system.
[1:39:25] Not via the system.
[1:39:26] >> We don't we don't have a contract with
[1:39:28] them to search. So we don't have that
[1:39:30] data available to us.
[1:39:33] >> Correct.
[1:39:33] >> I have a question on the suggestions
[1:39:35] point about scope of the searches. Um,
[1:39:39] would that type of search, say red
[1:39:41] pickup truck and in Charleton, including
[1:39:44] outside of Charlton, could that
[1:39:46] constitute a drag net search that was
[1:39:49] deemed unconstitutional? The Fourth
[1:39:51] Amendment earlier this year, 63 in a
[1:39:54] Supreme Court case.
[1:39:57] >> I think you'd have to give me more. Uh,
[1:40:00] >> Anony's got a law degree, by the way,
[1:40:05] » but no, but I I see your concern. Okay.
[1:40:09] >> Um
[1:40:11] >> but I would say this to you. Okay. Who
[1:40:13] in the room doesn't have a smartphone?
[1:40:16] >> Okay.
[1:40:18] >> And that's what scares me more than
[1:40:20] anything else.
[1:40:22] >> No, I understand that.
[1:40:23] >> Carpenter 2018 Supreme Court case
[1:40:26] outlawed searches by location because
[1:40:29] you're not necessarily giving up your
[1:40:30] right to privacy um based on your
[1:40:33] location because a smartphone is a
[1:40:35] integral part of your life. there's a
[1:40:37] difference for vehicle.
[1:40:38] >> I'm not talking about that. I agree with
[1:40:40] you on that. It's a search warrant. It's
[1:40:41] a It's
[1:40:43] >> But my concern is the data that's in my
[1:40:46] phone. I can't control who it's being
[1:40:48] shared to. Okay. Um
[1:40:56] » No, you can't.
[1:40:58] >> I turn off everything in my phone. Okay.
[1:41:01] And I'll give you an example. Today we
[1:41:04] had a fingerprint installed. fingerprint
[1:41:06] machine installed in the station and I
[1:41:09] got an ad for card stock. Okay, I didn't
[1:41:13] Google anything. I didn't look anything
[1:41:14] up and there's something beyond what I
[1:41:17] can control that's that's doing that.
[1:41:20] Okay,
[1:41:21] >> but I think that's that's part of the
[1:41:22] point.
[1:41:23] >> It's actually part of these
[1:41:26] cameras. I think we need
[1:41:28] >> for one second. Okay. So, I I have a I
[1:41:34] don't know AOL email address. Okay.
[1:41:37] >> So, I have a Gmail.
[1:41:40] >> Gmail doesn't give me an insurance
[1:41:42] policy that my data is not
[1:41:45] >> gives us an insurance policy.
[1:41:46] >> They give us an insurance
[1:41:49] to the bone there.
[1:41:50] >> Um I don't know where my data is being
[1:41:53] shared or what have you. Um and I get
[1:41:57] concerned about that. Whereas talk at
[1:41:59] least gives me some assurance and I I do
[1:42:01] see your concern.
[1:42:03] >> I understand we talked for hours.
[1:42:05] >> Yes.
[1:42:05] >> And I'm willing to talk to anybody in
[1:42:07] the room and and
[1:42:08] >> I just think we need to understand that
[1:42:11] just like you and I had this
[1:42:12] conversation that this is larger than
[1:42:14] Charlton. We can certainly talk about
[1:42:17] the individual circumstances of a
[1:42:19] dementia patient or a lost child. We
[1:42:22] agree with all of that. But if that can
[1:42:24] be used have that how do I access it? I
[1:42:27] can't. Somebody goes missing. I can't
[1:42:29] blow her six months.
[1:42:31] >> We didn't have any of this and you were
[1:42:33] fine.
[1:42:34] >> No, no, we wouldn't be fine.
[1:42:35] >> We still solve crime and police still
[1:42:38] did their job. So, I think we have to be
[1:42:41] understanding that this the capacity of
[1:42:44] these cameras and you and I sat down and
[1:42:46] you showed me, do you remember how many
[1:42:48] outside agencies, police offic uh police
[1:42:52] departments and sheriff offices that
[1:42:54] you've told me how many access to our
[1:42:57] cameras.
[1:42:58] >> 119 of 120,000.
[1:43:00] >> Yes. And then you had like 50 more that
[1:43:03] you had to give permission.
[1:43:04] >> 15, right?
[1:43:05] >> 15.
[1:43:06] >> So you have 1,200 or almost 1,200
[1:43:09] outside agencies, not even to do with
[1:43:12] Charleton that have access to our
[1:43:14] cameras. And I think we need to
[1:43:16] understand what can they see, when can
[1:43:19] they see it, where what are they doing
[1:43:20] with
[1:43:22] a horrible picture. [laughter] It's not
[1:43:25] even
[1:43:25] >> the picture that the camera takes. It's
[1:43:27] not a
[1:43:28] >> We're getting where I think the two
[1:43:31] people on the side of the road walking
[1:43:33] in old home day. I could see everything.
[1:43:35] I could see the dog. I could see
[1:43:37] everything in the picture. So, I don't
[1:43:38] >> How about the ring cameras? Do you got
[1:43:40] you have a ring cameras on your house?
[1:43:42] >> No,
[1:43:44] we're getting a little We're getting a
[1:43:45] little What? I'm
[1:43:46] >> I guess what I'm hoping is that we can
[1:43:48] before you vote. There's a lot of
[1:43:51] information that was not included. I
[1:43:52] sent you an email a couple days ago.
[1:43:54] Still have not got that information
[1:43:56] regarding my public records request. Um,
[1:43:59] what outside agencies can search or
[1:44:01] request Charlton's data? Does Charlton
[1:44:04] approve each outside search individually
[1:44:06] or do some agencies have continuing
[1:44:08] access? Can Charlton audit every outside
[1:44:11] search including who conducted it and
[1:44:14] why? I know you get a case and they say,
[1:44:16] "We need to see this. Why?" Okay. And
[1:44:18] then I think the town needs to
[1:44:20] understand you showed me one camera on
[1:44:24] Stafford Street in a 30-day period
[1:44:27] >> licensed or took pictures of a half a
[1:44:30] million different well not different
[1:44:34] half a million pictures. Yes.
[1:44:37] >> Half a million pictures of us.
[1:44:40] >> Right. And only of your car.
[1:44:43] No. Do you?
[1:44:44] >> Huh?
[1:44:44] >> Of your license plate.
[1:44:46] of the entire car.
[1:44:48] >> You can see the entire back of the car,
[1:44:51] not the license plate. If I'm if I am
[1:44:55] driving, if the if the picture is taken
[1:44:58] once every six seconds or six every 1
[1:45:01] seconds, you are going to get a picture
[1:45:03] of me
[1:45:04] >> in that if I go the same speed or a
[1:45:07] different speed. So, you can't just be
[1:45:09] careful with making those blanket
[1:45:11] statements because
[1:45:13] >> I know it doesn't intend pictures of
[1:45:16] people, but it does. And again, this is
[1:45:19] all we're asking for is transparency to
[1:45:21] be able to have this.
[1:45:23] >> You're you're actually you're actually
[1:45:24] not asking for transparency. We're
[1:45:26] trying to give you that. You're asking
[1:45:27] for You're asking to get rid of them is
[1:45:29] what you're asking.
[1:45:30] >> Well, I'm asking to get rid of them
[1:45:31] because we don't have the transparency.
[1:45:33] We don't
[1:45:34] >> If we can just if we can just hold that
[1:45:36] thought right there. Now there was some
[1:45:39] there was when we brought up the idea of
[1:45:41] training or or a seminar we could show
[1:45:43] people that I I was looking at a lot of
[1:45:46] people nodding their heads an
[1:45:47] educational format where people could do
[1:45:49] that. We saw it and we were convinced
[1:45:52] that it's not a threat. It's not I'm I
[1:45:54] don't like big government. I don't like
[1:45:58] >> big government looking down on me. I big
[1:46:01] brother all of that stuff. I don't like
[1:46:03] that. And and I'm sure and the chief
[1:46:05] that is not what this is. That is not
[1:46:07] what this is.
[1:46:09] >> I think I'm sorry, Steve.
[1:46:10] >> No.
[1:46:10] >> I think when these came out two years
[1:46:12] ago and there's been zero incidences
[1:46:15] here in Charlton of anybody abusing
[1:46:17] anything.
[1:46:17] >> That's not true.
[1:46:19] >> Yes, it is.
[1:46:24] » Correct.
[1:46:26] Nobody Nobody has abused the
[1:46:28] cameras themselves.
[1:46:29] >> What do you mean abused the cameras?
[1:46:31] using them to find the chief's example
[1:46:33] of somebody cheating on somebody's wife
[1:46:35] or husband or whatever it is. There
[1:46:36] hasn't been any of that.
[1:46:38] >> Me personally, Charleston had to pay a
[1:46:42] me personally. What I experienced not
[1:46:45] you know what on that what we haven't
[1:46:46] talked about yet of the policy that's in place that the chief put in
[1:46:50] two years ago. There were five five
[1:46:53] reasons you can log into the system and
[1:46:55] five and more than five that you can't.
[1:46:58] And the ones that you can't are
[1:47:00] immigration purposes. There's a lot on
[1:47:01] there that you'd actually like to read.
[1:47:04] >> I have it, but it does it's not accurate
[1:47:06] like
[1:47:07] >> it's not accurate because you don't
[1:47:09] understand it or it's not accurate dates
[1:47:10] of when the policy who signed the policy
[1:47:13] and then what are the you know uh
[1:47:15] punishments if you will? What's the
[1:47:17] accountability in the policy?
[1:47:19] >> If if it's misused, you're saying what's
[1:47:23] the accountability? No, that would be a disciplinary action from
[1:47:27] the chief, but for sure.
[1:47:29] >> I know, but it's just not in the policy
[1:47:31] >> because it hasn't happened. Well, that
[1:47:32] hasn't Well, maybe we that I'm I don't I
[1:47:35] can't speak for him on that, but
[1:47:37] >> I also think we haven't heard enough of
[1:47:38] the good things that that the flot
[1:47:40] cameras have done for us.
[1:47:42] >> Like I don't know how many people have
[1:47:44] heard what happened at Bayath just last
[1:47:46] week.
[1:47:49] >> Have you? My son was in that class.
[1:47:52] >> Yes, I
[1:47:52] >> at that evening. And
[1:47:54] >> there was a shooter in route to cameras
[1:47:56] probably I would probably have no sound
[1:47:58] didn't help that
[1:48:00] >> that's how they caught the suspect
[1:48:02] >> and you certainly at that period
[1:48:06] >> Brown University and MIT that's how they
[1:48:08] caught it Marvin Antoine that just
[1:48:10] passed away last weekend at the football
[1:48:12] game down in in in Rhode Island or UMass
[1:48:15] Dartmouth he was stabbed to death flock
[1:48:18] helped catch that killer
[1:48:20] >> well I was a lot of good
[1:48:24] I am telling you I'm the mother. I'm I'm
[1:48:26] not speaking as the select board member.
[1:48:29] My son was in that class on No, you
[1:48:32] don't. Do you did you have a son in that
[1:48:34] class? No, you didn't. And because of
[1:48:36] those fl No, you don't. And in because
[1:48:39] of the flaw camera,
[1:48:41] >> call it whatever you want. I have a son
[1:48:44] tonight and that's it on that topic
[1:48:47] because Yes.
[1:48:49] >> Because because of that. So from because
[1:48:52] he never made it to the school
[1:48:53] apprehended him and
[1:48:54] >> the FBI was involved with the social
[1:48:56] media.
[1:48:57] >> Basha, please we can just try to try to
[1:48:59] get this back.
[1:49:01] >> Try to get this back on to some
[1:49:02] measurable outcome.
[1:49:04] >> FBI picked up something about a
[1:49:06] potential shooting.
[1:49:08] They reached out to our police
[1:49:10] department. They started to set up their
[1:49:13] standout points. That's how they tracked
[1:49:15] this guy. They they knew who made the
[1:49:18] post. They know where he was going
[1:49:20] because he was a student
[1:49:24] and that's how they caught him.
[1:49:25] >> He never made it to the school and you
[1:49:27] never heard about it because it wasn't
[1:49:29] technically an incident
[1:49:30] >> whether we had flock or not. They still
[1:49:31] would have done that to do with
[1:49:36] that because they he was apprehended.
[1:49:38] >> It is a it is it is a it's a tool in
[1:49:40] their tool box. It's not there.
[1:49:42] >> It's not the you don't understand
[1:49:44] >> about who else has access.
[1:49:46] >> All right. So is there you you sat
[1:49:49] through the presentation. You know who
[1:49:51] else has access.
[1:49:52] >> Is there a way
[1:49:53] >> but but on that note how many so moving
[1:49:55] forward and the chief I don't want to
[1:49:57] throw this on you but would you you and
[1:50:00] would you guys be willing to do some
[1:50:02] type of a demonstration somewhere?
[1:50:04] >> Yeah we were talking in the hall when
[1:50:05] you mentioned it. Um you
[1:50:07] >> I could he asked me the chief asked
[1:50:10] could you do a demonstration right here
[1:50:12] and
[1:50:12] >> not this second camera. You know
[1:50:15] >> the problem I have is that I need a
[1:50:16] secure IP address in order to use the
[1:50:19] camera. And we don't have a secure IP
[1:50:22] address here. Otherwise, I could I could
[1:50:25] do something for you. But we could
[1:50:27] definitely set something up if people
[1:50:28] would be interested.
[1:50:29] >> Oh,
[1:50:29] >> every time every time they log in,
[1:50:31] there's a multiffactor authentification
[1:50:33] or authentication that has to go through
[1:50:35] if he uses a different laptop or cell
[1:50:37] phone or however they get in. There's
[1:50:38] multiple layers of security for them to
[1:50:40] even get in.
[1:50:41] >> Yes, definitely.
[1:50:41] >> No, the the cell phone gives me the
[1:50:43] second authentication.
[1:50:45] 10 or 12 at a time to the chief in South
[1:50:48] Bridge.
[1:50:49] >> I'm sorry.
[1:50:49] >> Have you spoken to the chief in South
[1:50:51] Brbridge?
[1:50:52] >> Yes, I've had conversations with him.
[1:50:54] >> Do you know why he discontinued
[1:50:56] the block?
[1:50:57] >> Well, at some point the um the juice
[1:50:59] isn't worth the squeeze if he was going
[1:51:01] to get attacked and everything, but
[1:51:04] >> he got attacked as far as the usage of
[1:51:07] it saying, "Hey, this is we don't want
[1:51:08] it."
[1:51:10] >> But but
[1:51:12] at some point in time, you know, public
[1:51:14] opinion
[1:51:15] But he has expressed that they've
[1:51:18] utilized ours as far as calling us and
[1:51:20] saying, "Hey, we're looking for a
[1:51:21] vehicle that just took off. We just
[1:51:23] apprehended somebody that was involved
[1:51:25] in a shooting the other night."
[1:51:28] >> Old home day. There was a vehicle that
[1:51:29] drove by a stolen place from Georgia.
[1:51:32] Every day there's something that can be
[1:51:34] caught on these
[1:51:36] >> and and there's more good than bad.
[1:51:38] crime and all the details.
[1:51:42] >> At what capacity is the town going to be
[1:51:44] held if there's a lawsuit
[1:51:46] >> from why why would there be a lawsuit?
[1:51:48] >> Well, like there's been almost a hundred
[1:51:50] cases across the country, okay, of
[1:51:54] situations where the camera's been used
[1:51:56] in an incapacity where it was wrongfully
[1:51:59] charging the person.
[1:52:01] >> I don't know. I'm just speaking I I
[1:52:04] don't know of any in Massachusetts where
[1:52:06] that's happened. Okay. But if we got a a
[1:52:10] hit on a motor vehicle uh off a license
[1:52:12] plate, the officer is going to run that
[1:52:14] license plate, confirm it. He's going to
[1:52:16] visually confir he or she is going to
[1:52:18] visually confirm it before they make a
[1:52:20] stop. Okay.
[1:52:21] >> Obviously, but like in the in the grand
[1:52:23] scheme of like the big picture, right?
[1:52:26] How is there 100 incidences already?
[1:52:29] Right.
[1:52:29] >> We don't I don't know that.
[1:52:31] >> Why haven't you looked that up? You
[1:52:32] trust what they tell you from? Because because we're we're because
[1:52:35] we're in the Troutton town hall
[1:52:37] discussing the town of Charlton.
[1:52:40] >> That's something we can verify locally.
[1:52:42] We verify
[1:52:43] >> any local news reports or any any of
[1:52:46] course we do. Of course we do. Do you do you watch on the same do you
[1:52:50] watch the ones where there's a positive
[1:52:52] that that have been coming out?
[1:52:54] >> Now there seems to be a shift in the
[1:52:56] media now. You're seeing news news
[1:52:58] channels even locally pick up flock and
[1:53:00] some of the good things about it.
[1:53:01] finally
[1:53:03] and they're talking about cases being
[1:53:05] solved. The hype is going on. It's I'm really convinced it's an educational
[1:53:10] idea.
[1:53:11] >> I I was on the same side.
[1:53:13] >> Well, we're wrong. Like I said, I am
[1:53:14] limited in space, so I can't put 40
[1:53:16] people and and there's no way you can
[1:53:21] beative actions from Flock. I don't
[1:53:24] understand you in the past two weeks,
[1:53:25] you haven't looked it up. I mean, you
[1:53:26] might not believe everything, but
[1:53:27] there's all suicide.
[1:53:28] >> I'm on social media all the time. I see
[1:53:30] the negative hype, but but I but I've
[1:53:33] also been going through the training and
[1:53:35] there were people laughing when I said
[1:53:36] it doesn't do voice recognition. It the
[1:53:39] cameras we have it does not. There were
[1:53:41] people laughing when I said that. There
[1:53:43] were still people laughing when I
[1:53:48] movements. You have the license plate.
[1:53:50] >> It is a snapshot of a it's not
[1:53:54] >> but it doesn't but it doesn't look it
[1:53:56] doesn't private companies that
[1:53:59] information. The police can pinch your
[1:54:01] phone and find you so much easier.
[1:54:04] >> Same with the ring. Same with the social
[1:54:06] media. You people.
[1:54:07] >> All right. We haven't given this.
[1:54:09] >> If we get some more to hear, um Karen
[1:54:11] would like to speak and we haven't let
[1:54:13] her
[1:54:13] >> I've actually said haven't said a word
[1:54:15] yet.
[1:54:16] >> So, I think what this board needs to
[1:54:18] think about is
[1:54:21] this is this is we have a citizens
[1:54:23] petition. If this passes or doesn't
[1:54:26] pass, how are we going to react to that?
[1:54:28] because as far as I'm concerned and
[1:54:31] again they're great talking points
[1:54:32] tonight and I encourage everyone to you
[1:54:34] know become more informed so we can all
[1:54:37] have make a again an educated informed
[1:54:39] decision that night but at the end of
[1:54:42] the day this I can speak for myself and
[1:54:45] I want to know how the town's people
[1:54:47] feel because you are the ones that again
[1:54:50] I I referenced that org chart early on
[1:54:53] you're our boss bosses as far as I'm
[1:54:55] concerned and what you say at town
[1:54:57] meeting speaks loudly at least to me.
[1:54:59] But you're going to know both sides of
[1:55:01] it. The you decision regardless of what
[1:55:05] it is and our decision comes with
[1:55:07] consequences. Just get informed. But I
[1:55:10] and again I think we need to decide you
[1:55:12] know if I know it's a non-binding
[1:55:14] question. Non-binding question means if
[1:55:15] even if it passes that we're not
[1:55:17] obligated to take any action because
[1:55:20] it's non-binding.
[1:55:22] But I think we are obligated
[1:55:25] to do so because it's in the spirit of
[1:55:27] the question. We should in my opinion
[1:55:30] abide by what the town's people want.
[1:55:33] >> I and I think I I not saying I disagree
[1:55:37] with you, but but I think the problem a
[1:55:40] lot of the problem is people what what
[1:55:42] they're what they what they're
[1:55:44] understanding isn't the factual
[1:55:46] >> understood. Education is important and I
[1:55:49] think there's a way we can do it. I
[1:55:51] don't know how It's just what is that we
[1:55:54] have to decide on?
[1:55:55] >> I think
[1:55:57] >> so maybe does does this board want to
[1:56:00] move forward with any kind of motion
[1:56:03] regarding the outcome if this motion if
[1:56:06] the cition motion passes
[1:56:10] >> fill in the blank do we want to then
[1:56:12] pause or you want to wait
[1:56:14] >> I don't think he wants by the citizens
[1:56:16] decision I think he wants to
[1:56:19] make choice himself
[1:56:23] I was just trying to kind of contain it
[1:56:24] a little bit. And again, this is I think
[1:56:26] that we all I think the consensus is in
[1:56:28] this room that our Charlton Police
[1:56:30] Department really does a great job and
[1:56:32] we have confidence it's it's all the
[1:56:34] other unknowns out there. I I I get it.
[1:56:36] Good points made on both sides. But
[1:56:39] >> that's any I already said it and then
[1:56:41] >> I I I'm pretty firm on the Mike was a
[1:56:44] perfect example. Mike was like a lot of
[1:56:46] people in this room right now a month
[1:56:49] ago and he sat through the training and him and I we argued about it and
[1:56:54] then I said fine let's go get some
[1:56:55] training and then it once you see what's
[1:56:58] available for and the the usefulness of
[1:57:00] the tool
[1:57:02] >> I I asked I'm sorry I asked multiple
[1:57:04] questions to everybody that was there
[1:57:07] involved and and I did ask about uh the
[1:57:09] threeletter agencies and if they had
[1:57:11] access and they don't. Um there was a
[1:57:14] lot of questions that I had I'm sorry.
[1:57:15] Which three?
[1:57:17] >> The threeletter agencies. N any of them.
[1:57:20] >> FBI, CIA, ICE, NH, NHS,
[1:57:23] >> any of them.
[1:57:26] >> Has I showed you four searches
[1:57:30] >> in the month?
[1:57:31] Okay. All have a reason.
[1:57:33] all have something associated with
[1:57:34] >> time, date, stamped receipts,
[1:57:36] >> but they don't have
[1:57:37] >> Would you agree that that was the only
[1:57:39] that and the US Postal Service and I
[1:57:40] explained to you those were the only
[1:57:43] ones that had a search in there
[1:57:46] >> for the last 30 days,
[1:57:49] >> right?
[1:57:50] >> You don't have that information. You
[1:57:51] couldn't give me the information before
[1:57:53] that. I asked for it, but you couldn't
[1:57:54] give it to me because I lose it for
[1:57:56] >> the last 30 days. Well, you have
[1:57:59] >> we should individual conversations here,
[1:58:01] but I don't have off the top of my head.
[1:58:07] » All right, this
[1:58:10] >> we I think we could sit here and go have
[1:58:13] this back and forth go all night. I
[1:58:15] think the um
[1:58:17] what's before the board. It's obviously
[1:58:20] the it's going to be on the the article
[1:58:23] is going to be on town meeting,
[1:58:25] >> right?
[1:58:27] non-binding article and what are the
[1:58:29] wishes of this board. I really encourage
[1:58:32] people to take
[1:58:35] to however we do it some type of
[1:58:37] educational
[1:58:39] to attend it with an open mind and and
[1:58:43] it can't be if if it if it's an hourong
[1:58:46] presentation and there's bickering going
[1:58:48] back and forth that's going to be a
[1:58:50] three-hour long presentation. We don't
[1:58:51] want that. just come in and listen and for an hour if you do it 15 people
[1:58:57] at a time. Is there any way you can do
[1:59:00] it in a room this size?
[1:59:02] >> Sure, I could. I just have to do some
[1:59:04] work. Yes.
[1:59:05] >> In in order to get the IT the IT part of
[1:59:08] it and just put something together
[1:59:09] that's
[1:59:10] >> what works better what works better for
[1:59:12] people. Is it evening or is it daytime?
[1:59:14] Is it
[1:59:14] >> you can probably size this and see
[1:59:16] >> there's only 15 at a time multiple sess.
[1:59:19] I don't know if we find a bigger venue,
[1:59:20] but it's the
[1:59:21] >> Dexter Hall IP address the IP a secure
[1:59:23] IP address is my biggest hangup.
[1:59:25] >> I think a room this size is probably I
[1:59:27] think that's just
[1:59:33] here.
[1:59:33] >> So, I just I don't want to do the groups.
[1:59:38] >> I just have to find a place that can
[1:59:40] handle. So,
[1:59:41] >> you know, you know, we could we could do
[1:59:42] it here and this room is already all
[1:59:44] televised. People would be able to watch
[1:59:46] it from home. We got to make sure the
[1:59:47] >> the IP address.
[1:59:48] >> Yes. Why don't we get back on that?
[1:59:50] >> I asked if we could use this room
[1:59:52] because I just thought it would be
[1:59:53] easier.
[1:59:53] >> No, it it does make Yeah, it does make
[1:59:55] sense. And you you could actually people
[1:59:56] could almost zoom in with a question if
[1:59:58] they're at home with a question as well.
[1:59:59] >> And to be honest with you, I could zoom
[2:00:01] in people from that would be more
[2:00:03] beneficial.
[2:00:03] >> That would be excellent.
[2:00:04] >> Mr. Chair,
[2:00:06] is it is there a possibility that we
[2:00:09] could or you could sorry you the board
[2:00:14] could at least vote tonight to not
[2:00:19] install the other four cameras um before
[2:00:23] the town makes a decision. I don't know
[2:00:25] if that's I I
[2:00:27] >> I would take a I would I would take a
[2:00:29] motion right now that
[2:00:30] >> I'd prefer myself not to make any
[2:00:34] changes until
[2:00:36] >> training education is completed and if
[2:00:38] there's further questions or further I
[2:00:42] definitely don't want these around then
[2:00:43] we can take it from there but I don't
[2:00:45] where these things are bought and paid
[2:00:47] for and they're up and they're working
[2:00:48] and the contract is already going even
[2:00:50] if we took the
[2:00:51] >> cameras down still paying the contract
[2:00:54] In fact, it could not.
[2:00:57] >> We don't even have them.
[2:00:58] >> We're not going to get any.
[2:01:00] >> But is it Can you put that in a formal
[2:01:02] motion?
[2:01:03] >> Put that in as a motion.
[2:01:05] >> I'm uh Yeah, I make the motion to not
[2:01:08] make any changes until we have uh either
[2:01:10] an online Zoom or an education class uh
[2:01:13] given by the police department and
[2:01:15] potentially flock if they can get
[2:01:16] involved
[2:01:17] >> and see how many participation
[2:01:18] >> there was that last there was a
[2:01:20] gentleman from Flock that was going to
[2:01:21] be in the area.
[2:01:23] until after the vote on it.
[2:01:26] >> We have a motion. Do we have a second on
[2:01:28] that not to take a second?
[2:01:30] >> Just
[2:01:31] >> for for
[2:01:32] >> So we have a motion and a second not to
[2:01:34] take any action tonight.
[2:01:36] >> Um do we have a vote?
[2:01:38] >> I talked conversation discussion usually
[2:01:40] happens after the motion and the second
[2:01:42] Mr. Chairman.
[2:01:44] >> Okay. So, regarding this motion, um, why
[2:01:48] are we taking any action on anything
[2:01:50] until when we I I personally would like
[2:01:52] to see everything paused until after
[2:01:54] town meeting. I'm not sure why we have
[2:01:56] to double down on saying we're not going
[2:01:58] to do something.
[2:02:01] >> I I I'm just not understanding the need.
[2:02:03] >> We're just not The motion was not to
[2:02:04] take any action tonight.
[2:02:05] >> Correct.
[2:02:06] >> That's that's very clear.
[2:02:08] >> Well, I think we should commit to
[2:02:09] something.
[2:02:12] Well, I I think we should commit to
[2:02:14] something if I I personally want to
[2:02:16] know.
[2:02:16] >> No, no, no, no. We're actually following
[2:02:18] your request. You you wanted us to take
[2:02:22] a vote tonight,
[2:02:23] >> okay,
[2:02:24] >> to either do one of the three things,
[2:02:26] >> right?
[2:02:27] >> And we're taking a vote on that on your
[2:02:29] request.
[2:02:30] >> That's about as fair as you can get
[2:02:32] action. So, we have a motion and a
[2:02:34] second
[2:02:34] >> to to not to not move forward with
[2:02:36] anything
[2:02:37] >> not to install until
[2:02:39] >> until after the education and the people
[2:02:41] that showed up here tonight.
[2:02:42] >> Oh, so we're not going to I say it
[2:02:43] wasn't clear. It wasn't
[2:02:45] >> we're not going to install anything.
[2:02:47] >> We don't have anything to install.
[2:02:49] >> We don't have the cameras yet.
[2:02:50] >> I'm misunderstanding.
[2:02:51] >> If they come tomorrow, you could install
[2:02:53] them based on your motion right here.
[2:02:55] >> Chief, have they been
[2:02:56] >> I'm not I I believe the last time we
[2:02:58] audited cameras, it took till like
[2:02:59] November. So, I'm not anticipating them
[2:03:01] being in and obviously in a spirit of
[2:03:03] fairness, I would hold off until you
[2:03:06] have your moment. And
[2:03:08] >> so, I mean,
[2:03:08] >> so amend my motion to after the class in
[2:03:11] the educational course to not install
[2:03:13] the new cameras until this has been
[2:03:16] resolved.
[2:03:16] >> Yes.
[2:03:17] >> Until after town meeting.
[2:03:19] >> After town meeting.
[2:03:20] >> That would
[2:03:21] >> Yeah, after town meeting. I go
[2:03:23] >> Well, no. Is that then we know what the
[2:03:26] >> actually not to
[2:03:29] >> your first motion was
[2:03:31] >> I was trying to appease.
[2:03:33] >> Yeah.
[2:03:34] >> Well, no, but that's
[2:03:35] >> you can you can pull it back. We can you
[2:03:38] can resend it and then resend it and
[2:03:40] then make the right decision.
[2:03:41] >> I I would I would be a little less
[2:03:44] definitive. I I would
[2:03:47] >> just hold the topic in a
[2:03:50] >> just hold it into a bayance for right
[2:03:51] now.
[2:03:53] >> Do it. table it.
[2:03:55] >> Make a motion to table the subject.
[2:03:58] >> Second.
[2:04:00] >> All in favor?
[2:04:01] >> I
[2:04:04] tableling
[2:04:04] >> tableabling the subject.
[2:04:05] >> I trust that the chief won't install it
[2:04:07] before the meeting.
[2:04:12] » Can I just ask for planning purposes? Um
[2:04:16] does an evening meeting or daytime
[2:04:18] meeting what works better for the
[2:04:19] majority of people?
[2:04:22] one in the day and one at night.
[2:04:24] >> I can work on that.
[2:04:26] >> Some people that can get through it.
[2:04:28] >> I totally understand that. That's why
[2:04:30] I'm asking the question.
[2:04:30] >> Can the meeting be taped and played over
[2:04:34] and over again the same way
[2:04:36] like board meetings can be played over
[2:04:38] and over again?
[2:04:39] >> The only thing is people wouldn't have
[2:04:41] the opportunity to ask questions if I
[2:04:42] was able to block it if
[2:04:44] >> but there'll be enough other questions
[2:04:46] recorded.
[2:04:46] >> That's fair. Can they bring data of how
[2:04:49] this actually is helped like proving it
[2:04:51] rather than just sales pitches?
[2:04:53] >> I can
[2:04:54] actually even going on the internet you
[2:04:57] can't find it anywhere just
[2:05:00] chief of police over here. No offense
[2:05:02] but you know
[2:05:05] >> okay if we can if we can um take those
[2:05:08] conversations off the we could still be
[2:05:12] appreciate they're good questions and
[2:05:14] we'll come out with some dates. Who do
[2:05:16] we
[2:05:17] um disseminate the information to?
[2:05:19] Michelle, I'm assuming you know all
[2:05:21] these you have access to
[2:05:25] >> what would be the best way to do
[2:05:28] >> state.
[2:05:31] » What we're going to do, we're probably
[2:05:33] going to have to limit it to the amount
[2:05:34] of people we can fit in this room.
[2:05:36] >> Why can't we use a larger space?
[2:05:39] >> Why can't we use school or any other places?
[2:05:42] >> The IP address is what he was concerned
[2:05:44] with. How about we see the participation
[2:05:48] IP address for more? We do another one.
[2:05:50] >> The odds of doing the IP address here on
[2:05:53] the town network
[2:05:55] >> is one thing, but then we also have the
[2:05:56] recording capabilities here in Zoom and
[2:05:58] all that right in this room. The schools
[2:06:00] don't have that. You can't you can't do
[2:06:02] a presentation at town meetings.
[2:06:03] >> So like the library [snorts]
[2:06:04] meeting room, I don't know if I have a
[2:06:06] cell connection there. We definitely
[2:06:08] don't have recording capability there.
[2:06:09] Right.
[2:06:10] >> Upstairs. I don't think so.
[2:06:19] What' you say,
[2:06:20] >> Drew?
[2:06:25] » Oh, in the deck server.
[2:06:28] >> If the IP address, why don't you look
[2:06:30] into that a little bit? Yeah.
[2:06:33] >> Computer.
[2:06:35] >> I really think education is the is the
[2:06:37] key. And there's still going to be some
[2:06:38] people that are going to believe what
[2:06:40] they've been believing for the last 90
[2:06:43] days and it's not due to that.
[2:06:47] But it but there are people that it will
[2:06:49] change.
[2:06:53] So, is there
[2:07:00] » one we're going to
[2:07:06] » Okay, gentlemen, you're
[2:07:07] >> done. Am I out of the lines yet?
[2:07:10] >> Thank you, Chief.
[2:07:11] >> Thank you.
[2:07:12] >> Um, chief chief police chief of police
[2:07:14] contract coming up. [laughter]
[2:07:19] >> I'll be grayer.
[2:07:23] What what do we have left?
[2:07:25] >> We have the town administrators report.
[2:07:27] >> All right. Beautiful updates.
[2:07:32] First of all, financial reporting. For
[2:07:34] the second year in a row, the town of
[2:07:36] Charlton has been awarded the government finance officers association
[2:07:40] certificate of achievement for
[2:07:42] excellence in financial reporting.
[2:07:44] Ashley,
[2:07:46] >> great work. the queen.
[2:07:49] >> Make sure she got her flowers tonight.
[2:07:52] >> Excellent.
[2:07:53] >> All right. Uh, fire substation. We're
[2:07:56] nearing the completion of this fire
[2:07:57] substation project on Oxford Road.
[2:07:59] There's still a considerable amount of
[2:08:00] work to be done within the building in a
[2:08:02] very short time frame. And by very
[2:08:04] short, I mean like a week and a half.
[2:08:06] Uh, currently substantial completion is
[2:08:08] targeted for October 2nd. This week,
[2:08:10] just about all trades are wrapping up
[2:08:12] their work in anticipation of final
[2:08:14] balancing and testing of systems to be
[2:08:16] completed next week. Obviously, dealing
[2:08:18] with all those little snafoos that, you
[2:08:20] know, all these projects have. Uh, but
[2:08:24] once we reach the final completion,
[2:08:25] we'll start moving furniture and
[2:08:27] equipment into the building.
[2:08:29] >> That's awesome.
[2:08:30] >> And then, uh, master plan. So, the
[2:08:32] master planning committee has been
[2:08:33] meeting regularly to develop an um
[2:08:36] community outreach strategy in support
[2:08:37] of the master plan. On October 18th, the
[2:08:40] committee will be hosting a community
[2:08:41] meeting uh to help inform the
[2:08:43] development of the master plan. It'll be
[2:08:45] at Dexter Hall over at the library. Uh
[2:08:48] probably I believe it's going to be for
[2:08:50] six o'clock at night. So, we'll have
[2:08:51] additional information on the town
[2:08:53] website in advance of that meeting, but
[2:08:55] more to come. That's what I got.
[2:08:57] >> That's it.
[2:08:58] >> Thank you.
[2:09:01] Select board requests for future agenda
[2:09:03] items.
[2:09:05] >> Please say no.
[2:09:10] » Non-binding, but please say no.
[2:09:12] >> Not binding.
[2:09:15] >> Okay.
[2:09:16] And then next meeting
[2:09:17] announcement,
[2:09:19] Dudley Charlton special election,
[2:09:21] September 29th, 2026,
[2:09:23] >> 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. 8:00 p.m. Note
[2:09:26] that different times, 12 to 8 at
[2:09:28] Heritage School. Next regular meeting of
[2:09:30] the select board will be October 13th,
[2:09:32] 2026,
[2:09:34] 6:30 p.m. right here. And the special
[2:09:37] town meeting is October 19th at 7 p.m.
[2:09:40] Charlton Middle School. And I would
[2:09:42] accept a motion to adjurnn.
[2:09:44] >> Motion to adjurnn.
[2:09:45] >> Second.
[2:09:46] >> All in favor?
[2:09:47] >> I.