1
00:00:02,645 --> 00:00:07,346
And after that, it's been a downhill. It's a challenge

2
00:00:07,346 --> 00:00:09,746
for me to do things on my own, but I

3
00:00:09,746 --> 00:00:13,729
make myself do. It. I think it's a great program

4
00:00:13,729 --> 00:00:16,129
put on by the United Way, and I enjoy the

5
00:00:16,129 --> 00:00:19,809
meals because not a lot of spices and low installed,

6
00:00:19,809 --> 00:00:22,329
which I have to watch because I have arthritis and

7
00:00:22,329 --> 00:00:27,352
thyroid problems. Thanks to the United Way, seniors like me

8
00:00:27,352 --> 00:00:35,050
get the help we need. Got fried. Let's celebrate. Happy

9
00:00:35,050 --> 00:00:43,333
pride month. We are your tv truly local? Exclusively on

10
00:00:43,333 --> 00:00:43,693
Coachico.

11
00:03:15,355 --> 00:03:19,475
Must recognize our responsibilities, including our collective responsibilities to the

12
00:03:19,475 --> 00:03:26,851
land and water. Mr. Mayor, there is no supplementary agenda

13
00:03:26,851 --> 00:03:31,209
this evening. Rules of decorum at a council meeting. The

14
00:03:31,209 --> 00:03:34,529
municipality of Chatham, Kent, supports open meetings that welcome debate

15
00:03:34,529 --> 00:03:39,615
of public policy issues. In an atmosphere of inclusiveness, integrity,

16
00:03:39,615 --> 00:03:45,015
civility, fairness and respects for differing points of view. Anyone

17
00:03:45,015 --> 00:03:48,295
conducting themselves in a way that disturbs, disrupts, or impedes

18
00:03:48,295 --> 00:03:52,215
the orderly conduct of the meeting, interrupts or makes derogatory

19
00:03:52,215 --> 00:03:56,695
statements or hate speech. Defamatory comments about counselors staff speakers

20
00:03:56,695 --> 00:03:59,872
or fellow members. Of the public may result in removal

21
00:03:59,872 --> 00:04:03,970
from the premises. This also applies to deputations. We ask

22
00:04:03,970 --> 00:04:06,130
that you do not approach members of council if they

23
00:04:06,130 --> 00:04:09,450
are seated in their council seat. The public, unless invited,

24
00:04:09,450 --> 00:04:12,530
is not permitted to come into the gated horseshoe area.

25
00:04:12,530 --> 00:04:15,490
The use of posters, signage in literature is also prohibited.

26
00:04:16,870 --> 00:04:20,270
In attendance this evening. Just to let the public know

27
00:04:20,270 --> 00:04:24,550
that absentee councilor McGrail. And councilor B. McGregor is participating

28
00:04:24,550 --> 00:04:29,185
virtually on the call. There were two disclosures of procurementary

29
00:04:29,185 --> 00:04:32,145
interest this evening. The first one is with regards to

30
00:04:32,145 --> 00:04:35,705
the planning. Item eleven. A application for consent and zoning

31
00:04:35,705 --> 00:04:41,585
bylaw amendment. The estate of Carolina. Mysco 14385 tour and

32
00:04:41,585 --> 00:04:45,745
line community of Orford East Kent by councilor story and

33
00:04:45,745 --> 00:04:48,947
the other one by councilor story. Was item 17 B,

34
00:04:48,947 --> 00:04:53,612
the application for zoning bylaw amendment. For 650 Park street

35
00:04:53,612 --> 00:04:57,467
community of Dresden, North Kent. We'll now move on to

36
00:04:57,467 --> 00:05:05,532
planning services. Thank you, brun. Kenneth.

37
00:05:08,497 --> 00:05:12,618
The process to be followed for each application. Will be

38
00:05:12,618 --> 00:05:15,778
as follows. One the clerk will announce each individual planning

39
00:05:15,778 --> 00:05:18,378
item to the mayor will ask if there's anyone present

40
00:05:18,378 --> 00:05:20,818
other than the applicant with an interest in the application

41
00:05:20,818 --> 00:05:23,538
and to indicate so by raising their hand. Three. The

42
00:05:23,538 --> 00:05:25,938
clerk will advise a burden or video submissions have been

43
00:05:25,938 --> 00:05:29,618
received four. If someone present other than the applicant indicates

44
00:05:29,618 --> 00:05:31,778
an interest in the item, there will be a presentation

45
00:05:31,778 --> 00:05:36,211
by administ. Administration. Five individuals with an interest in the

46
00:05:36,211 --> 00:05:38,531
application other than the applicant will be asked to proceed

47
00:05:38,531 --> 00:05:40,811
to the podium provide their name and address. And address.

48
00:05:40,811 --> 00:05:43,691
Council six. The applicant will be asked that they wish

49
00:05:43,691 --> 00:05:47,171
to proceed to the podium address. Council seven administration will

50
00:05:47,171 --> 00:05:48,851
be asked if they have any comments. Based on any

51
00:05:48,851 --> 00:05:52,211
discussion may have occurred and aid council be asked what

52
00:05:52,211 --> 00:05:54,556
action it wishes to take. With regard. Regards to each

53
00:05:54,556 --> 00:05:58,494
item. If any person in a public body that files

54
00:05:58,494 --> 00:06:00,534
an appeal of a decision of counsel and respect. The

55
00:06:00,534 --> 00:06:03,534
proposed applications does not make oral of written submissions. The

56
00:06:03,534 --> 00:06:06,814
municipal clerk before the proposal is approved they are not

57
00:06:06,814 --> 00:06:10,174
entitled to appeal decision to the Ontario Land Tribunal if

58
00:06:10,174 --> 00:06:13,896
otherwise eligible. Unless, in the opinion of the tribunal, there

59
00:06:13,896 --> 00:06:16,096
are reasonable grounds to add the person and public bodies.

60
00:06:16,096 --> 00:06:19,938
A party to the appeal. Information on council's actions today

61
00:06:19,938 --> 00:06:22,378
will be posted municipal website all persons who have made

62
00:06:22,378 --> 00:06:25,978
a request or who have made an oral written submission

63
00:06:25,978 --> 00:06:28,298
regarding a particular planning item or receive a notice of

64
00:06:28,298 --> 00:06:32,978
council's decision, including appeal procedures. Any other person who wishes

65
00:06:32,978 --> 00:06:35,578
to receive a notice of decision must submit a written

66
00:06:35,578 --> 00:06:40,665
request. Municipal clerk. Thank you. Eleven a application for consent

67
00:06:40,665 --> 00:06:46,025
and zoning bylaw Amendment A, State of Carolina Meisco 14385

68
00:06:46,025 --> 00:06:49,025
tour online Community of Orford East Kent Mr. Mayor, we

69
00:06:49,025 --> 00:06:51,985
have one conflict of interest by councilor. Story and no

70
00:06:51,985 --> 00:06:57,856
deputations were received today. Is there anyone present other than

71
00:06:57,856 --> 00:07:00,096
the applicant or the agent with an interest in the

72
00:07:00,096 --> 00:07:03,931
application? If so please indicate by raising your hand. Seeing

73
00:07:03,931 --> 00:07:06,691
none. Councilor McDonald and Councilor Wright, I get you. Put

74
00:07:06,691 --> 00:07:10,291
this in the floor, please. Happy to move the recommendations.

75
00:07:10,291 --> 00:07:14,292
I'll second it. Thank you. Any questions? Seeing none. We'll

76
00:07:14,292 --> 00:07:18,841
put it to vote. Councilor b. Mcgregor.

77
00:07:24,571 --> 00:07:28,148
All votes are in motion. Passes 16 to zero. And

78
00:07:28,148 --> 00:07:31,948
eleven b. Application for consent and zoning bylaw amendment Thames

79
00:07:31,948 --> 00:07:37,388
Sales Yard Limited 13135 Longwoods Road community of Camden, East

80
00:07:37,388 --> 00:07:40,228
Kent. There are no conflict of interest and no deputations.

81
00:07:40,228 --> 00:07:44,481
Were received. Is there anyone present other than the applicant

82
00:07:44,481 --> 00:07:47,041
or the agent with an interest in this application? If

83
00:07:47,041 --> 00:07:51,279
so please indicate by raising your hand. Seeing none. Councilor

84
00:07:51,279 --> 00:07:53,399
Wright and Councilor McDonald, can I get you to put

85
00:07:53,399 --> 00:07:59,041
this. Thank you and seconded. Any questions? We'll put it

86
00:07:59,041 --> 00:08:07,962
to vote. Council, mcgregor. Yeah. Thank you. All votes are

87
00:08:07,962 --> 00:08:12,768
in motion. Passes 17 to zero. That ends the planning

88
00:08:12,768 --> 00:08:15,008
portion of our meeting this evening. We'll now move on

89
00:08:15,008 --> 00:08:20,763
to deputations there were no deputations received this evening. And

90
00:08:20,763 --> 00:08:24,803
the consent agenda. So the following items have been pulled

91
00:08:24,803 --> 00:08:28,203
to be voted on separate from the consent agenda. The

92
00:08:28,203 --> 00:08:35,862
first item is 14 a r 25. 240 cultural plan

93
00:08:35,862 --> 00:08:40,622
update Project 2025 has been pulled by councilor story in

94
00:08:40,622 --> 00:08:44,702
item 14 g tender award contract t 25. Two three

95
00:08:44,702 --> 00:08:48,662
one. King Street west reconstruction and First street water Main

96
00:08:48,662 --> 00:08:52,742
replacement. Community of Chatham has been pulled by councilor story

97
00:08:52,742 --> 00:08:57,197
item. 15 a the Chatham Kemp population growth 2025 update.

98
00:08:58,626 --> 00:09:02,782
Is pulled for a presentation. 15 B. Chatham Kemp Workforce

99
00:09:02,782 --> 00:09:07,382
Planning Board 2025 update pulled for a presentation item 16

100
00:09:07,382 --> 00:09:11,382
a the Public Utilities Commission master plan review with a

101
00:09:11,382 --> 00:09:15,063
growth lens. There is a presentation, and it is pulled

102
00:09:15,063 --> 00:09:19,743
by councilor Carmen McGregor and councilor Sokachi. Item 17 a.

103
00:09:19,743 --> 00:09:24,020
The Chatham, Kent community Improvement plan. Property tax increment equivalent

104
00:09:24,020 --> 00:09:29,542
grant for 100 KING Street Holdings Inc. And. Chatham King

105
00:09:29,542 --> 00:09:33,182
street community of Chatham city has been pulled by councilor

106
00:09:33,182 --> 00:09:37,582
story and councilor Jubenville item 17 B, application for zoning

107
00:09:37,582 --> 00:09:41,702
bylaw amendment for 650 Park street community of Dresden. North

108
00:09:41,702 --> 00:09:44,702
Kent has been pulled by councillor Jubenville, and there's also

109
00:09:44,702 --> 00:09:48,912
a conflict by councilor story item 18, a consol. Consolidated

110
00:09:48,912 --> 00:09:52,872
non core detailed asset management plan 2025 has been pulled

111
00:09:52,872 --> 00:09:56,872
by Councilor C. McGregor. Councilor Anderson, councilor Sokachi and Councilor

112
00:09:56,872 --> 00:10:02,347
Harrigan. Item 18 B, the Talbot trail realignment stage four

113
00:10:02,347 --> 00:10:07,530
assessment pulled by Councilor Anderson. And that is it, Mr.

114
00:10:07,530 --> 00:10:10,530
Mayor. Therefore, on the consent agenda, we have the following

115
00:10:10,530 --> 00:10:18,766
report. 14. B, C, d, e, f. Item 15 c,

116
00:10:18,766 --> 00:10:26,693
item 18, cde. Item 19 a. Councilor Anderson and Councilor

117
00:10:26,693 --> 00:10:28,413
Thompson. Can I get you to put this on the

118
00:10:28,413 --> 00:10:32,363
floor, please? I am happy to do that. And I

119
00:10:32,363 --> 00:10:37,064
am happy to second. Any questions? B. Mcgregor.

120
00:10:41,596 --> 00:10:45,596
Yes. Thank you. All votes are in motion. Passes 17

121
00:10:45,596 --> 00:10:51,236
to zero. Move on to the tender awards item.

122
00:10:56,683 --> 00:11:02,323
14 a r 25 240 cultural plan update project 2025.

123
00:11:04,489 --> 00:11:07,289
Councilor story and Councilor Finn. Can I get you puts

124
00:11:07,289 --> 00:11:13,538
on the floor, please? Mr. Mayor. Seconded. Councilor story. Go

125
00:11:13,538 --> 00:11:16,858
ahead. Thank you. I just have a couple of questions.

126
00:11:16,858 --> 00:11:23,174
On this report. To Audrey. Thanks. I just want to

127
00:11:23,174 --> 00:11:26,134
thank you for bringing this report forward and bringing culture

128
00:11:26,134 --> 00:11:29,414
back into the limelight. Again. I appreciate always seeing that

129
00:11:29,414 --> 00:11:37,528
coming to council. You mentioned in the report. That a

130
00:11:37,528 --> 00:11:43,557
few of the circumstances that brought this forward. In terms

131
00:11:43,557 --> 00:11:46,397
of the changing landscape of arts and culture in our

132
00:11:46,397 --> 00:11:53,015
community, including. The potential move to the downtown Chatham center,

133
00:11:53,015 --> 00:12:00,442
I'm wondering. It might make more sense. To wait until

134
00:12:00,442 --> 00:12:03,402
we've moved there to see the impacts of what that

135
00:12:03,402 --> 00:12:05,682
move to the site might look like before I know.

136
00:12:05,682 --> 00:12:10,433
The plan could potentially go two different directions. Would we

137
00:12:10,433 --> 00:12:14,193
want to perhaps look at doing this plan once we

138
00:12:14,193 --> 00:12:16,193
know for sure we're going to be in that site

139
00:12:16,193 --> 00:12:18,153
and then looking at the impacts of being at the

140
00:12:18,153 --> 00:12:23,946
Sears building. Versus not. Through the mayor. Thank you, councilor,

141
00:12:23,946 --> 00:12:30,390
for the question. I'm not sure I'm best qualified. To

142
00:12:30,390 --> 00:12:33,390
state whether or not the implications of moving to the

143
00:12:33,390 --> 00:12:35,470
hub. What I can say is the reason why this

144
00:12:35,470 --> 00:12:37,590
is before you is because it is a council term

145
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:41,150
priority, and collectively you have identified that you do want

146
00:12:41,150 --> 00:12:43,230
to update the culture master plan, which is why it

147
00:12:43,230 --> 00:12:45,590
is here with you. But I will say, as you

148
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:47,750
pointed out, that there have been a lot of changes

149
00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:52,480
to this landscape for culture. Continues to change. And this

150
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,120
plan is not just about what we do municipally. It's

151
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,880
about what happens. In our community in relation to arts

152
00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,840
and culture. So in that regard, I think I don't.

153
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,000
Think there's ever a wrong time to reassess where we

154
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,720
are at in terms of culture across our community. Yeah.

155
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,440
No, I agree. And I think planning ahead always makes

156
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,616
good. Sense. It seemed to me that when we were

157
00:13:13,616 --> 00:13:16,936
looking at where the future of our cultural assets, our

158
00:13:16,936 --> 00:13:18,976
municipal assets. And we've been doing a lot of talk

159
00:13:18,976 --> 00:13:22,376
about really important discussions about our municipal assets, especially the

160
00:13:22,376 --> 00:13:26,162
last few months. Once we know we're going to be,

161
00:13:26,162 --> 00:13:28,602
then we would have that clear direction on especially our

162
00:13:28,602 --> 00:13:31,322
heritage sites. So I was just thinking that perhaps it

163
00:13:31,322 --> 00:13:36,626
might be worth looking at the timing. For that. In

164
00:13:36,626 --> 00:13:46,239
terms of. The. Successful bidder. I know that TCI. Consultants

165
00:13:46,239 --> 00:13:49,689
did the previous master plan and. I was part of

166
00:13:49,689 --> 00:13:53,009
that in my previous life here. Is there a reason

167
00:13:53,009 --> 00:13:57,038
why? They. Scored the way they did this time because

168
00:13:57,038 --> 00:14:01,558
they obviously have pretty direct involvement in the previous plans.

169
00:14:01,558 --> 00:14:06,118
Thank you through the mayor to answer council stories question.

170
00:14:06,118 --> 00:14:09,638
When we put out rfps like this, we're following strict

171
00:14:09,638 --> 00:14:12,918
municipal guidelines about how we do that. So following our

172
00:14:12,918 --> 00:14:16,526
purchasing policy, we're working with our manager. Purchasing throughout in

173
00:14:16,526 --> 00:14:19,966
terms of what is listed in the document. We then

174
00:14:19,966 --> 00:14:23,726
evaluate submissions based on what is returned to us subject

175
00:14:23,726 --> 00:14:26,126
to a series of criteria that we then create in

176
00:14:26,126 --> 00:14:28,686
terms of what we're looking for based off what's actually

177
00:14:28,686 --> 00:14:33,386
in the cultural the RFP document. We then assemble a

178
00:14:33,386 --> 00:14:38,946
team to evaluate those submissions. That team consisted of myself,

179
00:14:38,946 --> 00:14:40,826
the manager of arts. And culture and then the manager

180
00:14:40,826 --> 00:14:44,692
of growth and planning from our planning area. And we

181
00:14:44,692 --> 00:14:47,892
did connect with the Ministry of Culture and Gaming to

182
00:14:47,892 --> 00:14:51,252
see if they were have their interest in the actual

183
00:14:51,252 --> 00:14:55,971
document that we put out, but we basically evaluate. A

184
00:14:55,971 --> 00:14:58,491
respondent's ability to complete the project based on what we

185
00:14:58,491 --> 00:15:02,675
believe are the correct things. What we're looking for. So

186
00:15:02,675 --> 00:15:04,955
we opened the pricing envelope once we have actually completed

187
00:15:04,955 --> 00:15:09,955
and identified that the respondent or the identified is capable

188
00:15:09,955 --> 00:15:13,115
of completing the work. So ultimately, the recommendation in front

189
00:15:13,115 --> 00:15:16,395
of you is to go with era architects and monumental.

190
00:15:18,357 --> 00:15:20,717
And that's basically on the basis of the criteria that

191
00:15:20,717 --> 00:15:22,957
were all settled in the RFP documents, so everyone had

192
00:15:22,957 --> 00:15:25,997
the same opportunity to respond on that. And the evaluation

193
00:15:25,997 --> 00:15:28,797
team are putting forward a recommendation for that joint bid.

194
00:15:30,609 --> 00:15:32,449
Thank you. That makes sense. And I know era is

195
00:15:32,449 --> 00:15:34,769
very capable. They are very well known firms. I look

196
00:15:34,769 --> 00:15:37,842
forward to seeing what they come up with. Just last

197
00:15:37,842 --> 00:15:43,242
two questions. I appreciated the references to the Aoda compliance

198
00:15:43,242 --> 00:15:47,282
in the tender related to the materials and the documentation,

199
00:15:47,282 --> 00:15:49,288
however. I didn't see. I know it was a pretty

200
00:15:49,288 --> 00:15:53,211
high level document, but. I didn't see any reference to

201
00:15:53,211 --> 00:15:55,771
accessibility in terms of the description of the work. They're

202
00:15:55,771 --> 00:15:58,635
going to be doing. Could you maybe expand on the

203
00:15:58,635 --> 00:16:02,987
components of the plan related to accessibility? Thank you. Through

204
00:16:02,987 --> 00:16:06,050
the mayor. Thank you, councilor, again for the question. Our

205
00:16:06,050 --> 00:16:09,850
entire approach to this is around accessibility in terms of

206
00:16:09,850 --> 00:16:12,290
engaging with groups who may not always have felt that

207
00:16:12,290 --> 00:16:13,890
there was a place for them at the table who

208
00:16:13,890 --> 00:16:16,410
may not necessarily have been invited. So we're talking about

209
00:16:16,410 --> 00:16:20,770
an accessibility of an approach in terms of engagement, information

210
00:16:20,770 --> 00:16:25,130
gathering. Reporting and accessing arts and culture generally and activities

211
00:16:25,130 --> 00:16:28,208
across our. Community. So we're looking for broad audience appeal.

212
00:16:28,208 --> 00:16:30,808
We're looking for that welcoming piece. For all sorts of

213
00:16:30,808 --> 00:16:34,164
groups. So not those living with disabilities, but people who

214
00:16:34,164 --> 00:16:36,964
are also maybe coming from different cultural backgrounds as well,

215
00:16:36,964 --> 00:16:40,004
so I would say accessibility is implicit in terms of

216
00:16:40,004 --> 00:16:43,846
the work we're doing, but. I will add that. Both

217
00:16:43,846 --> 00:16:48,003
era and monumental. And specifically monumental in the work that

218
00:16:48,003 --> 00:16:51,853
they have done in other municipalities. Really their level of

219
00:16:51,853 --> 00:16:54,947
engagement. Is, I haven't seen a whole lot of it

220
00:16:54,947 --> 00:16:58,667
in terms of comparisons, in as much as their approach

221
00:16:58,667 --> 00:17:01,507
is about engaging groups who are typically not included in

222
00:17:01,507 --> 00:17:04,801
these conversations. And really, that is the thrust of what

223
00:17:04,801 --> 00:17:06,801
we're trying to do here with the cultural plan. Obviously,

224
00:17:06,801 --> 00:17:08,321
there are base things that we know we need to

225
00:17:08,321 --> 00:17:12,333
achieve. But the engagement, the accessibility, all those pieces, I

226
00:17:12,333 --> 00:17:14,733
think, are implicit and certainly front of mind for us.

227
00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:18,660
That would be great. And maybe when the time comes,

228
00:17:18,660 --> 00:17:21,660
you wouldn't mind just shipping that. To the chair of

229
00:17:21,660 --> 00:17:25,140
our accessibility committee to circulate. That would be great. I

230
00:17:25,140 --> 00:17:30,664
would appreciate. That. And last but not least, I know

231
00:17:30,664 --> 00:17:34,424
whenever we talk about. Master plans for our community. And

232
00:17:34,424 --> 00:17:37,584
I know this happened with the last cultural plan as

233
00:17:37,584 --> 00:17:40,738
well. Often we get a lot of great work done

234
00:17:40,738 --> 00:17:42,938
and a lot of great engagement with our community. And

235
00:17:42,938 --> 00:17:45,898
a lot of great recommendations, and then we sometimes hit

236
00:17:45,898 --> 00:17:48,658
a wall, and it's not a Chatham Kent municipal unique

237
00:17:48,658 --> 00:17:51,338
to us. It is often where we end up, especially

238
00:17:51,338 --> 00:17:56,543
in challenging economic times and budget. Fiscal restraint. So what

239
00:17:56,543 --> 00:17:59,983
happens? It looks like January 2026. Approximately. We would see

240
00:17:59,983 --> 00:18:03,983
this report back. Is there any additional funding set aside

241
00:18:03,983 --> 00:18:07,063
to actually implement the recommendations that we're going to see

242
00:18:07,063 --> 00:18:11,231
in the plan. Thank you. Through the Merrick again councilor

243
00:18:11,231 --> 00:18:13,511
story. Thank you for the question. I don't want to

244
00:18:13,511 --> 00:18:16,351
predicate what actually might be recommended or not recommended in

245
00:18:16,351 --> 00:18:19,511
the actual cultural plan. It may or may not involve

246
00:18:19,511 --> 00:18:22,751
requirement of financial resources or otherwise, I don't know. So

247
00:18:22,751 --> 00:18:26,130
I wouldn't like to predicate that. But we certainly do.

248
00:18:27,858 --> 00:18:31,218
Have some reserves. In terms of Kawanis theater Improvement fund,

249
00:18:31,218 --> 00:18:34,018
there are still some reserves there. And we do have

250
00:18:34,018 --> 00:18:37,098
some reserves in our capital budget, but ultimately it will

251
00:18:37,098 --> 00:18:40,338
be a council decision. When we return with recommendations that

252
00:18:40,338 --> 00:18:43,378
the consultant brings forward, then will be a council decision

253
00:18:43,378 --> 00:18:46,218
to decide. What level of investment is required moving forward?

254
00:18:47,512 --> 00:18:49,712
And balancing that thing against our asset management plan and

255
00:18:49,712 --> 00:18:53,032
the requirements generally that have already been identified. As needs

256
00:18:53,032 --> 00:18:58,068
across all of our all municipal facilities. Ultimately. Thank you.

257
00:18:58,068 --> 00:19:00,748
Audrey, I have one last quick question. Maybe that would

258
00:19:00,748 --> 00:19:03,668
be a financial one to Gord. If we saw that

259
00:19:03,668 --> 00:19:08,295
report in 2026. Would we potentially say, okay, if there's

260
00:19:08,295 --> 00:19:11,615
x, y and z financial components to it, will be

261
00:19:11,615 --> 00:19:14,975
say, we would look at that at 2026 budget, for

262
00:19:14,975 --> 00:19:18,173
example. Is that how that would work, generally speaking. Thank

263
00:19:18,173 --> 00:19:21,933
you, Mr. Chair. So, with the timing, your 2026 budget,

264
00:19:21,933 --> 00:19:26,565
you'll be delivering in. November. Of 2025. So it's really.

265
00:19:28,333 --> 00:19:30,653
More likely either the 2027 budget with the next council.

266
00:19:32,293 --> 00:19:36,837
Or in the 28 to 31 multi year budget. Okay.

267
00:19:36,837 --> 00:19:40,491
Thank you very much. Thanks, Audrey, for the report. Seeing

268
00:19:40,491 --> 00:19:44,671
no other questions will put it to vote. Councilor b.

269
00:19:44,671 --> 00:19:51,471
Mcgregor. Yeah. All votes are in motion. Passes 17 to

270
00:19:51,471 --> 00:19:57,436
zero. 14 g tender award contract t 25. Two, three,

271
00:19:57,436 --> 00:20:01,276
one. King Street west reconstruction and first street water. Main

272
00:20:01,276 --> 00:20:08,324
replacement community of Chatham. Councilor story and councilor B. McGregor.

273
00:20:08,324 --> 00:20:11,684
Can I guess you put some floor, please? How can

274
00:20:11,684 --> 00:20:19,346
you move, Mr. Mayor? Councilor story. Go ahead.

275
00:20:23,221 --> 00:20:25,741
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just had a couple of

276
00:20:25,741 --> 00:20:28,541
questions that came in from residents in that neighborhood that

277
00:20:28,541 --> 00:20:33,743
I thought might be helpful. To discuss on the floor.

278
00:20:33,743 --> 00:20:36,383
So what? Anyone else listening might be aware who lives

279
00:20:36,383 --> 00:20:39,785
in that area. First question is, I know there's a

280
00:20:39,785 --> 00:20:46,874
reference to the streetlight replacement. Those particular street lights are

281
00:20:46,874 --> 00:20:50,354
similar to other historic neighborhoods on Victoria and Ellwood, I

282
00:20:50,354 --> 00:20:54,131
think so I just wanted to clarify. Could you give

283
00:20:54,131 --> 00:20:57,051
us a little more information about what that replacement looks

284
00:20:57,051 --> 00:21:01,640
like on that section of Kingstree. Thank you. Thank you.

285
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:08,008
Mary Annis. Yeah. The street lights are being replaced. They're

286
00:21:08,008 --> 00:21:11,307
to me standards and our pH standard. And also improves

287
00:21:11,307 --> 00:21:14,867
some of those street lighting levels on King street. So

288
00:21:14,867 --> 00:21:17,267
the style that's being incorporated is similar to the style

289
00:21:17,267 --> 00:21:19,467
that you'd see at downtown Chatham right now on King

290
00:21:19,467 --> 00:21:25,266
Street. So we're trying to match those. Additionally, some of

291
00:21:25,266 --> 00:21:28,266
those older lights are harder to replace. Some of the

292
00:21:28,266 --> 00:21:33,254
parts are difficult to source. So public works. Has been

293
00:21:33,254 --> 00:21:36,054
trying to make an initiative to try to standardize some

294
00:21:36,054 --> 00:21:43,057
of those decorative street lights. Okay. I might add that

295
00:21:43,057 --> 00:21:45,257
to an amendment to this. I think there's going to

296
00:21:45,257 --> 00:21:49,848
be some public pushback on that just because. Those particular

297
00:21:49,848 --> 00:21:53,619
items. Are quite beloved in our community and they're really

298
00:21:53,619 --> 00:21:58,267
unique historic element to. The neighborhood. So I'm wondering if

299
00:21:58,267 --> 00:22:00,227
we might be able to pull that piece out of

300
00:22:00,227 --> 00:22:03,467
this for a little more investigation. I think we have

301
00:22:03,467 --> 00:22:08,609
done replacement on Victoria with those lights. To a reasonable

302
00:22:08,609 --> 00:22:11,849
degree recently, but I know councilor Bonnie might have more

303
00:22:11,849 --> 00:22:13,649
familiarity with that, so. I will leave that for the

304
00:22:13,649 --> 00:22:17,784
moment. But will the Brianny impacts on the water supply

305
00:22:17,784 --> 00:22:23,770
or the water pressure for residents in the area. Thank

306
00:22:23,770 --> 00:22:28,290
you. So during construction, residents may see some fluctuations in

307
00:22:28,290 --> 00:22:34,195
pressure. They'd also have short term outages. When we're replacing

308
00:22:34,195 --> 00:22:39,455
the services over to the new main. But. Long term

309
00:22:39,455 --> 00:22:44,008
project completion. There'd be. No loss of water pressure in

310
00:22:44,008 --> 00:22:48,766
the area. Okay. And then in terms of the easements

311
00:22:48,766 --> 00:22:51,606
along king I know there were a few driveways that

312
00:22:51,606 --> 00:22:55,566
were impacted. And according to residents in that area, there's

313
00:22:55,566 --> 00:22:58,166
not a lot of parking off site. In terms of

314
00:22:58,166 --> 00:23:02,809
first street, it's usually quite busy. So if there are

315
00:23:02,809 --> 00:23:04,329
issues with getting in and out of dry waste, do

316
00:23:04,329 --> 00:23:06,609
you have any suggestions? For those residents who might be

317
00:23:06,609 --> 00:23:14,448
impacted by that. Thank you. During construction or after. During.

318
00:23:14,448 --> 00:23:18,096
Yeah. Thank you. Well, I guess there's two pieces. I'm

319
00:23:18,096 --> 00:23:21,797
not entirely clear on. Which driveways we're referring to, but

320
00:23:21,797 --> 00:23:23,597
I know there were a few folks on the street

321
00:23:23,597 --> 00:23:25,117
who thought they may not be able to get in

322
00:23:25,117 --> 00:23:27,157
and out of their driveway. So I would assume that's

323
00:23:27,157 --> 00:23:31,068
probably during the actual construction. Thank you. Yeah. So during

324
00:23:31,068 --> 00:23:35,659
construction. Our contractors are required to keep access open to

325
00:23:35,659 --> 00:23:44,120
the public. There would be times during construction. When, if

326
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:48,532
we're replacing a curb across driveway or a sidewalk, That

327
00:23:48,532 --> 00:23:51,850
they would lose access. Typically, when we're doing these projects,

328
00:23:51,850 --> 00:23:54,850
we do one side of the road with curbs. And

329
00:23:54,850 --> 00:23:58,727
sidewalks, and then we flip to the other side. So

330
00:23:58,727 --> 00:24:02,402
that. The residents that lose access side can park on

331
00:24:02,402 --> 00:24:06,057
the opposite side of the road. But we also work

332
00:24:06,057 --> 00:24:12,025
with the commercial properties. If there's businesses for access. And

333
00:24:12,025 --> 00:24:17,334
deliveries and that sort of thing as well. Okay. Maybe.

334
00:24:17,334 --> 00:24:23,060
Will you be letting residents know, sort of directly? Not

335
00:24:23,060 --> 00:24:25,300
too long before that happens on their particular property, so

336
00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:26,980
they'll be aware of when that is something you need

337
00:24:26,980 --> 00:24:30,416
to make other arrangements they can do, so. Yeah. So

338
00:24:30,416 --> 00:24:33,416
we will keep the public informed. We will be installing

339
00:24:33,416 --> 00:24:35,896
or dropping off door hangers. Before the project starts to

340
00:24:35,896 --> 00:24:40,738
inform them of the phasing of the project. And which

341
00:24:40,738 --> 00:24:44,440
areas will be impacted at which times. Our contractor also

342
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,657
provides. A letter. Inform them of the construction project and

343
00:24:48,657 --> 00:24:51,377
we provide contact information if there's any. Questions or any

344
00:24:51,377 --> 00:24:55,497
concerns, and then they can typically work with the onsite

345
00:24:55,497 --> 00:25:00,056
supervisor or inspector. At that time. If there's specific access

346
00:25:00,056 --> 00:25:05,186
requirements. Through the duration of construction. Okay, that's great. And

347
00:25:05,186 --> 00:25:07,586
just the last question. I know in the report, it

348
00:25:07,586 --> 00:25:13,036
said summer 2025, that that would likely begin. Do we

349
00:25:13,036 --> 00:25:15,116
have a little more firm of a date now of

350
00:25:15,116 --> 00:25:19,716
when that's going to start. Thank you. I'm anticipating likely

351
00:25:19,716 --> 00:25:23,678
in August, early August, I would start. Once this is

352
00:25:23,678 --> 00:25:25,798
approved at council here, and then we have a time

353
00:25:25,798 --> 00:25:28,758
to meet with the contractor. We'll get a better idea

354
00:25:28,758 --> 00:25:35,934
of their schedule. We typically. Set up preconstruction meetings shortly

355
00:25:35,934 --> 00:25:39,614
after our council meeting to discuss the details of the

356
00:25:39,614 --> 00:25:46,808
project. Okay, thanks very much. Mr. Chair. I'm not sure

357
00:25:46,808 --> 00:25:49,208
what the proper timing is for this, but can I

358
00:25:49,208 --> 00:25:51,048
add an item number four on this, or is that

359
00:25:51,048 --> 00:25:59,833
at the end of the discussion? Thank you. Okay. Can

360
00:25:59,833 --> 00:26:04,677
I simply add? Review options to keep the historic light

361
00:26:04,677 --> 00:26:10,013
posts. As part of the replacement. I don't want to

362
00:26:10,013 --> 00:26:15,104
keep. It. Too step to be able to provide us

363
00:26:15,104 --> 00:26:16,264
with some options on that. I don't want to make

364
00:26:16,264 --> 00:26:20,116
it too specific, but. Can we review the historic lamp

365
00:26:20,116 --> 00:26:26,166
post replacement option? Maybe that's a proper wording. How does

366
00:26:26,166 --> 00:26:33,496
that fit with. Has it already been awarded? And is

367
00:26:33,496 --> 00:26:37,410
this an adjustment? Sorry. What phase are we at there?

368
00:26:39,713 --> 00:26:43,553
Through you, Mr. Mayor Edwards, general manager of infrastructure engineering.

369
00:26:43,553 --> 00:26:45,673
So what you have before you tonight is. To approve

370
00:26:45,673 --> 00:26:49,775
the tender. The historical street lighting is not included as

371
00:26:49,775 --> 00:26:53,622
part of that tender. So that motion would have us

372
00:26:53,622 --> 00:26:57,823
go back. And if there was a change. If that

373
00:26:57,823 --> 00:27:01,063
change couldn't be accommodated within the contingency, we'd have to

374
00:27:01,063 --> 00:27:08,307
come back. And. Ask. For. Additional, potentially funds to make

375
00:27:08,307 --> 00:27:10,987
that change. Okay, so it's feasible to do that then,

376
00:27:10,987 --> 00:27:14,067
okay? So, item four. Just those few simple words. We

377
00:27:14,067 --> 00:27:17,187
get those. Councilor B. McGregor, are you okay? With this

378
00:27:17,187 --> 00:27:24,128
change. Yes. I've got a couple other speakers, councilor C.

379
00:27:24,128 --> 00:27:29,328
McGregor and councilor Bondi and. Councilor Scott. Thank you. Through

380
00:27:29,328 --> 00:27:34,816
the mayor. Mark, could you just better. Explain to me

381
00:27:34,816 --> 00:27:39,776
the amendments on the amount of $101,700 for the contract

382
00:27:39,776 --> 00:27:44,096
administration inspection. Services to be approved. I see that they

383
00:27:44,096 --> 00:27:48,496
did inspections back in 2019. Do we have to redo

384
00:27:48,496 --> 00:27:51,896
those because of the amount of times since the last

385
00:27:51,896 --> 00:27:56,272
inspection which leads to the. Amendment. In the contract. If

386
00:27:56,272 --> 00:27:58,992
you could just better explain that to me, I'd be

387
00:27:58,992 --> 00:28:03,512
appreciate it. Thank you, mayor. Cannes? Yeah. So the contract

388
00:28:03,512 --> 00:28:09,414
amendment is to cover inspection services through construction. So when

389
00:28:09,414 --> 00:28:13,939
we originally rfp this project, The phasing was a little

390
00:28:13,939 --> 00:28:17,619
bit different. We're phasing into almost kind of two separate

391
00:28:17,619 --> 00:28:22,504
projects now. So there's some additional funds required for inspection

392
00:28:22,504 --> 00:28:28,315
and contract administration. But also just. The extending it into

393
00:28:28,315 --> 00:28:31,235
2026 to cover some of the increased cost for that

394
00:28:31,235 --> 00:28:37,700
as well. Thank you. Councilor Bondi, followed by Councilor Scotty.

395
00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:44,240
Thank you, Mary Kan. I'd like to discuss number four,

396
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,640
like the amendment. So I think the way I'm. Reading

397
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,360
it. Administration would review the options for historical lamp post

398
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,560
replacement options, which means we'll never hear about it, right?

399
00:28:56,809 --> 00:28:58,649
You guys will just decide, like, if this would be

400
00:28:58,649 --> 00:29:01,769
a friendly. Could we just make an amendment? That the

401
00:29:01,769 --> 00:29:04,729
original style stays, and I don't think there's any trouble

402
00:29:04,729 --> 00:29:09,286
finding these. Because. It's less than five years that. They

403
00:29:09,286 --> 00:29:11,926
replaced the light standards from, I think, Amelia to McNaughton

404
00:29:11,926 --> 00:29:15,805
on Victoria, so they got to be out there. And

405
00:29:15,805 --> 00:29:17,325
they changed the lights on Victoria from time to time.

406
00:29:18,811 --> 00:29:20,891
The availability is there. It really would be a shame

407
00:29:20,891 --> 00:29:24,288
to take these out because. It's just kind of a

408
00:29:24,288 --> 00:29:27,269
unique thing, right? Like, there's only three streets that have

409
00:29:27,269 --> 00:29:30,829
them, and I think the people that live there and

410
00:29:30,829 --> 00:29:34,610
the people that travel. Will just say, what a shame.

411
00:29:34,610 --> 00:29:37,441
Like it's not the end of the world. But I'm

412
00:29:37,441 --> 00:29:39,241
sure they'll just kind of wonder, like, why would you

413
00:29:39,241 --> 00:29:42,260
do that? And clearly they are available. The ones on

414
00:29:42,260 --> 00:29:46,237
Victoria are, again, not that old. So how much trouble

415
00:29:46,237 --> 00:29:52,027
would it be? To just have them stay. Thank you,

416
00:29:52,027 --> 00:29:59,564
mayor can if. I recall. The Victoriav that was similar

417
00:29:59,564 --> 00:30:03,811
in that it was a council direction to replace. The

418
00:30:03,811 --> 00:30:08,063
existing lights. We didn't do any work. I guess, on

419
00:30:08,063 --> 00:30:11,143
the existing lights, we extended the street lights. Down the

420
00:30:11,143 --> 00:30:13,423
road and we try to match as closely as possible.

421
00:30:16,496 --> 00:30:20,056
In this instance, we were matching with the existing lights

422
00:30:20,056 --> 00:30:24,132
on King street in the downtown area. We did have

423
00:30:24,132 --> 00:30:29,930
a pic of public information center. We provided door hangers

424
00:30:29,930 --> 00:30:33,210
to all the residents, and we did share that the

425
00:30:33,210 --> 00:30:36,626
street lighting was going to be adjusted. We didn't receive

426
00:30:36,626 --> 00:30:40,697
any comments. But it's not to say that there's how

427
00:30:40,697 --> 00:30:43,057
many people came to owe to that it was a

428
00:30:43,057 --> 00:30:47,177
virtual pic, so we provided door hangers to every resident,

429
00:30:47,177 --> 00:30:52,620
and then there. Was information online. Right. Okay. Well, that's

430
00:30:52,620 --> 00:30:55,980
fine, but I do think the people that live there

431
00:30:55,980 --> 00:31:00,339
would probably prefer to have them stay. I think if

432
00:31:00,339 --> 00:31:03,148
I went door to door and asked everybody. Because really,

433
00:31:03,148 --> 00:31:06,348
they've been that way for 100 years, right? Yeah. So

434
00:31:06,348 --> 00:31:12,385
similar to what? EDWARD mentioned. We couldn't look into if

435
00:31:12,385 --> 00:31:16,404
there's replacement. Lights. If the question is, can we keep

436
00:31:16,404 --> 00:31:19,764
the exact lights, I'd have to take a look at

437
00:31:19,764 --> 00:31:21,804
the drawings just to make sure that there's no infrastructure

438
00:31:21,804 --> 00:31:25,171
that's going to impact. That we'd have to remove them

439
00:31:25,171 --> 00:31:30,142
in order to replace some of the infrastructure. But we

440
00:31:30,142 --> 00:31:35,013
can definitely investigate that. So will we know about it?

441
00:31:35,013 --> 00:31:36,533
Or do you guys. Will you guys just make that

442
00:31:36,533 --> 00:31:41,109
decision? Not tell us, but not tell us. I don't

443
00:31:41,109 --> 00:31:42,989
expect you to tell us when you choose lawnmowers and

444
00:31:42,989 --> 00:31:47,281
stuff. But. Will we hear about it? Because it is

445
00:31:47,281 --> 00:31:50,205
an amendment, but I see that. You can just kind

446
00:31:50,205 --> 00:31:52,837
of run through the amendment. And kind of not come

447
00:31:52,837 --> 00:31:55,477
back to us on it. I know it sounds nit

448
00:31:55,477 --> 00:31:58,077
picky. But it is kind of a cool thing that

449
00:31:58,077 --> 00:32:01,291
people like, and if it's not that. Much trouble. You're

450
00:32:01,291 --> 00:32:04,411
going to exchange the standards anyway to match downtown, which

451
00:32:04,411 --> 00:32:06,531
I don't think is terribly important because that's a commercial

452
00:32:06,531 --> 00:32:09,051
downtown area and this is a residential area, so I

453
00:32:09,051 --> 00:32:13,104
don't know. They really should match downtown Chatham. But I

454
00:32:13,104 --> 00:32:17,860
don't know. If it's that big of a deal. Then

455
00:32:17,860 --> 00:32:21,326
I guess it's not going to happen. But I'm just

456
00:32:21,326 --> 00:32:25,417
trying to get that kind of across. So is it

457
00:32:25,417 --> 00:32:26,897
that big of a deal? I don't think you'll be

458
00:32:26,897 --> 00:32:29,177
able. To use the old lights. I would imagine they're

459
00:32:29,177 --> 00:32:32,450
probably too old. But you're going to put in new

460
00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:34,290
lights, or rather, put in the new style that's in

461
00:32:34,290 --> 00:32:38,956
downtown. Just put in the sale that's existing there. Yeah.

462
00:32:38,956 --> 00:32:44,857
So, again. The Victoria. I believe we matched the lights

463
00:32:44,857 --> 00:32:50,086
as closely as we could. You couldn't actually. Replace lights

464
00:32:50,086 --> 00:32:54,487
with the exact same style of that. They did a

465
00:32:54,487 --> 00:32:57,127
great job. Nobody will ever know. It's very uniform when

466
00:32:57,127 --> 00:33:00,047
you drive down. Because I live, obviously, on Victoria, right?

467
00:33:00,047 --> 00:33:02,487
Not obviously, but I do live on Victoria, and so

468
00:33:02,487 --> 00:33:04,967
mine's. An old one, and it's pretty seamless, right? Like

469
00:33:04,967 --> 00:33:07,727
you can't. Tell. I think the new ones are taller,

470
00:33:07,727 --> 00:33:10,428
but other than that. It's a very good match, so

471
00:33:10,428 --> 00:33:12,908
I'm sure that would be just fine. On King west

472
00:33:12,908 --> 00:33:15,468
if that's doable, I don't think it's a huge ask,

473
00:33:15,468 --> 00:33:21,677
right? No. I guess I would say that maybe. The

474
00:33:21,677 --> 00:33:26,352
recommendation should be adjusted a little more specifically than. To.

475
00:33:27,627 --> 00:33:29,867
Just utilize them. Sorry, can I interject here? Just to

476
00:33:29,867 --> 00:33:33,907
say. Administrator review officers historic lamp post. Replacement options and

477
00:33:33,907 --> 00:33:36,307
report back to council, because I think councilor Bondi, that's

478
00:33:36,307 --> 00:33:39,637
what you're afraid of is that. We're never here again.

479
00:33:39,637 --> 00:33:41,517
But if we put that in there, they will report

480
00:33:41,517 --> 00:33:43,237
back and. Say, here's the options and we can look

481
00:33:43,237 --> 00:33:45,477
at it then. That would be great. Thank you very

482
00:33:45,477 --> 00:33:48,197
much, Mr. Mayor. Okay, I'm all done. Thanks. Sorry to

483
00:33:48,197 --> 00:33:50,397
bug you about this. Is that okay with the, you,

484
00:33:50,397 --> 00:33:53,769
councilor story? That's great. Although, yeah, I think we can

485
00:33:53,769 --> 00:33:56,249
take out one of the word options other. Than that.

486
00:33:56,249 --> 00:34:03,385
That's great. Thank you. And councilor B. McGregor. Yes. Councilor

487
00:34:03,385 --> 00:34:07,911
scott. Thank you. Mary can. If no disrespect to your

488
00:34:07,911 --> 00:34:11,089
interpretation, I just wanted to. Make sure with Edward. I

489
00:34:11,089 --> 00:34:13,289
interpreted number four a little bit more difficult than that.

490
00:34:13,289 --> 00:34:16,929
Is it an easy process, Edward, or. Is it a

491
00:34:16,929 --> 00:34:19,009
difficult process? Because I thought the way you sounded that

492
00:34:19,009 --> 00:34:22,209
there would be potentially more. Work or delay if this

493
00:34:22,209 --> 00:34:24,129
was the process. So I just want to clarify that

494
00:34:24,129 --> 00:34:27,331
this was is easy or not. Thank you. Through the

495
00:34:27,331 --> 00:34:32,930
mayor. The replacement of the street lights is not going

496
00:34:32,930 --> 00:34:36,090
to be in the first phase of the project. Right?

497
00:34:36,090 --> 00:34:38,370
We have to do the underground, other things so we

498
00:34:38,370 --> 00:34:40,930
can take this back and we can. Review the various

499
00:34:40,930 --> 00:34:44,170
options. We'll come back with the rationale of why we

500
00:34:44,170 --> 00:34:46,970
chose what. We did, because we did recommend not this

501
00:34:46,970 --> 00:34:49,570
option. And we can look at the other options and

502
00:34:49,570 --> 00:34:53,689
provide council. With the cost implications of making that change,

503
00:34:53,689 --> 00:34:56,009
hopefully within the time frame before we need to install

504
00:34:56,009 --> 00:34:59,049
them. Thank you. Just one quick question to the clerk.

505
00:34:59,049 --> 00:35:02,769
I would just appreciate one through three together. And number

506
00:35:02,769 --> 00:35:07,938
four separately, please. Will do. Thank you. See. No other

507
00:35:07,938 --> 00:35:09,858
questions. We'll put it to vote. We're going to vote

508
00:35:09,858 --> 00:35:12,098
on. Item one, two and three to start, and then

509
00:35:12,098 --> 00:35:19,340
we'll vote on item four. Councilor b. Mcgregor.

510
00:35:22,427 --> 00:35:27,470
Yes. All votes are in motion. Passes 16 to zero.

511
00:35:32,691 --> 00:35:33,931
And now we'll move on to number four.

512
00:35:42,383 --> 00:35:49,863
Councilor b. Mcgregor. Yes. I'll vote, sir. In motion passes

513
00:35:49,863 --> 00:35:50,463
13 to three.

514
00:36:06,383 --> 00:36:10,891
Item 15, chief administrative office. 15, a Chatham, Kent, population

515
00:36:10,891 --> 00:36:14,771
growth of 2025. Update and I'll have Audrey come forward.

516
00:36:14,771 --> 00:36:23,432
For the introduction. Through the mayor. You are going to

517
00:36:23,432 --> 00:36:26,712
receive two interrelated presentations this evening. One is about what's

518
00:36:26,712 --> 00:36:29,272
been happening with Chalam Kent's population and the other is

519
00:36:29,272 --> 00:36:32,952
about what has been happening. With Chadwin Kent's workforce. So,

520
00:36:32,952 --> 00:36:36,828
as you can imagine, both very important to understand. For

521
00:36:36,828 --> 00:36:39,508
the population presentation. You're going to hear from Jason Stubbots,

522
00:36:39,508 --> 00:36:42,588
who is our municipal coordinator of workforce planning and research.

523
00:36:44,214 --> 00:36:47,014
Obviously, changes in population are important to understand what's actually

524
00:36:47,014 --> 00:36:50,094
driving those and what's making them up. And then, of

525
00:36:50,094 --> 00:36:53,374
course, as we plan for growth and changes and attracting

526
00:36:53,374 --> 00:36:56,890
talent to our community. The other presentation is that is

527
00:36:56,890 --> 00:36:59,970
about workforce. It's related to our Chalam Kent workforce. Planning

528
00:36:59,970 --> 00:37:02,810
Board, which is funded by the Ministry of Labor, Immigration

529
00:37:02,810 --> 00:37:06,456
Training and Skills development. You are then going to hear

530
00:37:06,456 --> 00:37:09,696
from David Campbell, who is consultant, who is hired to

531
00:37:09,696 --> 00:37:13,056
complete Chalam the workforce Planning board's annual local labor market

532
00:37:13,056 --> 00:37:17,776
impact or global labor market planning document David Campbell from

533
00:37:17,776 --> 00:37:19,976
Jupia, and he is going to showcase some of the

534
00:37:19,976 --> 00:37:23,216
sectors that are growing. And in need of talent due

535
00:37:23,216 --> 00:37:27,065
to both growth and retirements. And I think really, in

536
00:37:27,065 --> 00:37:31,355
summary, Chunam Kent. Has always been known as a geographic

537
00:37:31,355 --> 00:37:34,835
sweet spot, and I think now we're obviously identified. As

538
00:37:34,835 --> 00:37:37,275
a relocation hotspot as well. And so some of the

539
00:37:37,275 --> 00:37:40,835
data that Jason will share with you. Will strongly illustrate

540
00:37:40,835 --> 00:37:44,456
that. So we'll leave you with Jason stubbots. For a

541
00:37:44,456 --> 00:37:54,418
presentation. All

542
00:37:54,418 --> 00:37:58,098
right. Good evening, Mayor Kenneth and council. As Audrey alluded

543
00:37:58,098 --> 00:38:00,858
to, I'm here this evening to provide an update on

544
00:38:00,858 --> 00:38:06,070
population growth in Chatham, Kent. So, as Audrey alluded to

545
00:38:06,070 --> 00:38:09,750
with my role, workforce planning and research coordinator, my role

546
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:13,070
helps support our local town attraction and retention efforts by

547
00:38:13,070 --> 00:38:18,910
ensuring that employers, stakeholders, job seekers and policymakers have access

548
00:38:18,910 --> 00:38:21,550
to the labor market data that they need to make

549
00:38:21,550 --> 00:38:28,752
informed decisions. So jumping into the population update as of

550
00:38:28,752 --> 00:38:33,472
July 1, 2024, Chatham Ken's population is estimated to be

551
00:38:33,472 --> 00:38:42,197
111,703. This population level was last seen in 2006. So

552
00:38:42,197 --> 00:38:47,237
Statistics Canada produces the census every five years, with 2021

553
00:38:47,237 --> 00:38:51,637
being the most recent. But Statistics Canada also provides population

554
00:38:51,637 --> 00:38:54,757
estimates on an annual basis that allows us to see

555
00:38:54,757 --> 00:38:58,517
population trends in between those census periods, and that's where

556
00:38:58,517 --> 00:39:03,284
this information comes from. So, looking at the population growth,

557
00:39:03,284 --> 00:39:05,604
if you look at the chart on the screen here,

558
00:39:05,604 --> 00:39:10,204
Cheddam Ken's population was just over 112,000 people back in

559
00:39:10,204 --> 00:39:14,004
2006. If you look at the nine year period that

560
00:39:14,004 --> 00:39:19,373
followed that there was consistent decline in the population. With

561
00:39:19,373 --> 00:39:26,613
it eventually going down to 104,511 people back in 2015.

562
00:39:26,613 --> 00:39:29,533
However, that's when we begin to see these population trends

563
00:39:29,533 --> 00:39:33,053
change and we begin to see that upward growth, so

564
00:39:33,053 --> 00:39:37,853
between 2015 and 2024, Chadam Ken's population grew by an

565
00:39:37,853 --> 00:39:43,862
estimated seven. Thousand, 192 people or almost. 7%. And in

566
00:39:43,862 --> 00:39:47,062
the last year alone, the population increased by an estimated

567
00:39:47,062 --> 00:39:52,411
1176 people. So I think it's important to also note

568
00:39:52,411 --> 00:39:57,131
that since 2001, when this data collection set began, Chatham

569
00:39:57,131 --> 00:40:00,291
Ken's population has only been higher than what it currently

570
00:40:00,291 --> 00:40:03,891
is three times, and that was back in 2001, 2005

571
00:40:03,891 --> 00:40:10,731
and 2006. And currently Chatham Ken's population is only 577.

572
00:40:10,731 --> 00:40:14,592
People. Away from surpassing its highest level since data collection

573
00:40:14,592 --> 00:40:19,011
began back in 2001. So if we look at the

574
00:40:19,011 --> 00:40:22,771
age breakdown of the population, a few noticeable trends stand

575
00:40:22,771 --> 00:40:27,211
out. First almost 24% of Chatham, Kent residents are over

576
00:40:27,211 --> 00:40:31,331
the age of 65. So again, this really highlights the

577
00:40:31,331 --> 00:40:36,171
importance of continued attraction and retention efforts, especially of younger.

578
00:40:38,462 --> 00:40:43,022
Residents to address future workforce shortages that the next presentation

579
00:40:43,022 --> 00:40:49,134
will allude to. Second between 2023 and 2024. Chad McKenz

580
00:40:49,134 --> 00:40:53,214
population in that 25 to 44 age group saw growth

581
00:40:53,214 --> 00:40:57,254
of 2.2%. So again, a positive sign for local workforce

582
00:40:57,254 --> 00:40:59,934
development and then if you did the math on the

583
00:40:59,934 --> 00:41:03,014
screen there, I should note that 21% of Chatham Ken's

584
00:41:03,014 --> 00:41:05,931
population again, based on these estimates. Is under the age

585
00:41:05,931 --> 00:41:09,491
of 20, so a positive sign for the future workforce.

586
00:41:11,307 --> 00:41:14,907
So the decline in the natural population growth rate highlights

587
00:41:14,907 --> 00:41:20,287
a need for population growth from other sources. So if

588
00:41:20,287 --> 00:41:23,967
we look at Chatham Kent's declining birth rate prior to

589
00:41:23,967 --> 00:41:28,047
2013, Chatham Kent saw more bursts than deaths on an

590
00:41:28,047 --> 00:41:30,887
annual basis. And you see that with this chart on

591
00:41:30,887 --> 00:41:33,647
the screen. Here with the number of bursts highlighted by

592
00:41:33,647 --> 00:41:36,567
the blue line and the number of deaths highlighted by.

593
00:41:36,567 --> 00:41:41,280
The gray line. However, starting in. 2014, the number of

594
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,880
deaths began to outpace the number of bursts. It's a

595
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,640
trend. That's continued to present day. And as you see

596
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,640
on the chart there, it's actually widened as time has

597
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,560
gone on. So given the current age distribution of the

598
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,320
population that we just looked at. It's also a trend

599
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:01,791
that is likely to continue in the future. In 2024

600
00:42:01,791 --> 00:42:06,271
alone, there were 462 more deaths than bursts in the

601
00:42:06,271 --> 00:42:09,351
community. So what? That tells us is Chadam Kent needs

602
00:42:09,351 --> 00:42:13,951
to continue to attract and retain individuals from other sources

603
00:42:13,951 --> 00:42:18,374
to continue to grow its population. So immigrants and non

604
00:42:18,374 --> 00:42:21,894
permanent residents continue to play a key role in driving

605
00:42:21,894 --> 00:42:27,574
population and workforce growth. In Chatham, Ken. So on this

606
00:42:27,574 --> 00:42:31,134
slide we see the number of annual immigrants and net

607
00:42:31,134 --> 00:42:34,894
non permanent resident arrivals to Chatham, Ken. One of the

608
00:42:34,894 --> 00:42:39,820
most noticeable trends. Is, since the pandemic, we see strong

609
00:42:39,820 --> 00:42:43,380
increases in the number of annual arrivals from both of

610
00:42:43,380 --> 00:42:46,580
these population sources. And you see that on the screen

611
00:42:46,580 --> 00:42:49,340
there with a number of immigrants highlighted. By the gray

612
00:42:49,340 --> 00:42:53,220
bar and net non permanent residents by the blue bar.

613
00:42:53,220 --> 00:42:57,540
So between July 1, 2023 and June 30 of 2024.

614
00:42:57,799 --> 00:43:01,799
So over that one year period, 293 immigrants arrived to

615
00:43:01,799 --> 00:43:06,079
Chatham, Kent, and a net of 489 non permanent residents

616
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:12,245
arrived. In recent years, intraprovincial migration, so movement within the

617
00:43:12,245 --> 00:43:15,725
province of Ontario has been the main source of population

618
00:43:15,725 --> 00:43:22,229
growth in Chatham, Ken. So it was just a decade

619
00:43:22,229 --> 00:43:24,869
ago that Chatham Ken had negative trends when it comes

620
00:43:24,869 --> 00:43:29,309
to intraprovincial migration, meaning the community was losing more people.

621
00:43:31,451 --> 00:43:33,931
To other areas of the province than it was gaining.

622
00:43:33,931 --> 00:43:36,771
And you see that clearly on the screen. There. However,

623
00:43:36,771 --> 00:43:41,011
starting in 2016, this trend started to change, and again

624
00:43:41,011 --> 00:43:48,221
it has sharply accelerated. After the pandemic. In 2024 1077,

625
00:43:48,221 --> 00:43:52,621
more people moved into Chatham, Kent, than out from other

626
00:43:52,621 --> 00:43:55,861
areas of the province. And in the past four years,

627
00:43:55,861 --> 00:44:02,581
Chadam Ken has gained 4561 people via intra provincial migration,

628
00:44:02,581 --> 00:44:05,644
so you see strong growth from other people. Choosing to

629
00:44:05,644 --> 00:44:10,026
come to Chatham, Ken from elsewhere in the province. Continuing

630
00:44:10,026 --> 00:44:15,838
with intraprovincial migration. What we see with these trends is

631
00:44:15,838 --> 00:44:20,798
that there's considerable mobility within southwestern Ontario. So this data

632
00:44:20,798 --> 00:44:24,598
comes from a one year period of 2022 and 2023.

633
00:44:26,153 --> 00:44:28,753
But what Chadam Kent saw was a net gain of

634
00:44:28,753 --> 00:44:33,713
374 people from Toronto and net gain of 148 from

635
00:44:33,713 --> 00:44:38,313
Windsor, a net gain of 125 from Kitchener, Cambridge, Waterloo,

636
00:44:38,313 --> 00:44:42,707
and a net gain of 119 from Hamilton. Cerny is

637
00:44:42,707 --> 00:44:44,147
actually one of the few areas in the province where

638
00:44:44,147 --> 00:44:46,627
we have a negative net number, but it is quite

639
00:44:46,627 --> 00:44:49,867
low with just negative net 13. So again, you're seeing

640
00:44:49,867 --> 00:44:53,507
Chatham can gain more individuals from other areas of the

641
00:44:53,507 --> 00:44:58,059
province than we're losing. So age data suggests that its

642
00:44:58,059 --> 00:45:03,634
young families moving to the community. So we looked at

643
00:45:03,634 --> 00:45:07,514
the number of immigrants, intraprovincial migrants, as well as non

644
00:45:07,514 --> 00:45:10,954
permanent residents. But what their age is telling us is

645
00:45:10,954 --> 00:45:14,074
that a large percentage of arrivals are coming in. The

646
00:45:14,074 --> 00:45:18,954
under 15 age group and the 25 to 44 age

647
00:45:18,954 --> 00:45:24,220
group. So of the 1859 people. That moved to Chatham,

648
00:45:24,220 --> 00:45:27,580
Kent in this one year period via these three pathways.

649
00:45:29,255 --> 00:45:32,735
74% were under the age of 45. So this includes

650
00:45:32,735 --> 00:45:37,295
92% of immigrant and 96% of net non permanent resident

651
00:45:37,295 --> 00:45:42,348
arrivals being under the age of 45. So, in summary,

652
00:45:42,348 --> 00:45:44,948
when it comes to the population, Chatham Ken has seen

653
00:45:44,948 --> 00:45:53,019
consistent growth since 2015. The community continues to deal or

654
00:45:53,019 --> 00:45:56,499
see a declining natural birth rate, which highlights a need

655
00:45:56,499 --> 00:46:00,619
for population. Growth from other sources, and that leads to

656
00:46:00,619 --> 00:46:05,419
our attraction from inward migration. So those moving from elsewhere.

657
00:46:05,419 --> 00:46:08,659
Within the province of Ontario. So intra provincial migrants, as

658
00:46:08,659 --> 00:46:12,298
well as non permanent residents and immigrant. Immigrants. They continue

659
00:46:12,298 --> 00:46:15,538
to be the main drivers of population growth in Chetamken.

660
00:46:17,268 --> 00:46:19,668
So that's it. What I have for the population portion

661
00:46:19,668 --> 00:46:22,228
of it, and I know that. The next presentation will

662
00:46:22,228 --> 00:46:26,148
look at workforce trends councilor crew, followed by councilor story.

663
00:46:28,327 --> 00:46:30,807
Thank you, Jason. I just have one question of clarification.

664
00:46:32,311 --> 00:46:36,272
How do you describe a non permanent resident? Through you.

665
00:46:36,272 --> 00:46:39,352
Merit. So a non permanent resident resident would be someone

666
00:46:39,352 --> 00:46:44,552
on a work visa? Study visa. Or refugee claimant, so

667
00:46:44,552 --> 00:46:48,792
an asylum seeker, so international students would be included in

668
00:46:48,792 --> 00:46:56,198
that. Councilor story, followed by councilor C. McGregor. Mr. Mayor.

669
00:46:56,198 --> 00:46:59,558
Thanks, Jason. That great presentation. I really appreciate you gathering

670
00:46:59,558 --> 00:47:02,038
this data for us and sharing. With us periodically. I

671
00:47:02,038 --> 00:47:05,332
think it's really helpful for us to see. An interesting

672
00:47:05,332 --> 00:47:08,252
how long it took us to rebound from that economic

673
00:47:08,252 --> 00:47:13,142
shock earlier. In the 2000s, but I really appreciate the

674
00:47:13,142 --> 00:47:16,422
work that our attraction retention team have done in our

675
00:47:16,422 --> 00:47:19,342
local businesses to bring folks back to the community to

676
00:47:19,342 --> 00:47:26,886
grow our economy again. In terms of comparators. Do we

677
00:47:26,886 --> 00:47:29,246
know how we line up in terms of. If I'm

678
00:47:29,246 --> 00:47:33,975
reading it correctly, it's correctly about. Two ish percent population

679
00:47:33,975 --> 00:47:38,589
growth every five years. Is that typical for municipalities our

680
00:47:38,589 --> 00:47:40,029
size? Are we a little higher on that front or

681
00:47:40,029 --> 00:47:43,195
a little lower. Where do we fall within that range?

682
00:47:43,195 --> 00:47:46,115
Thank you through the mayor. Thank you for the question,

683
00:47:46,115 --> 00:47:49,586
councilor. So we're working on a report right now that

684
00:47:49,586 --> 00:47:54,611
will look at comparators with other areas. Across the province,

685
00:47:54,611 --> 00:47:57,691
our size. So I do know over the last five

686
00:47:57,691 --> 00:48:02,051
year period when the census Chatham, Kent saw a 2%

687
00:48:02,051 --> 00:48:07,851
2.2% population growth, whereas the province saw a 5.8% population

688
00:48:07,851 --> 00:48:13,247
growth. Looking at different areas within the province, there is

689
00:48:13,247 --> 00:48:15,647
a lot of mix of some communities growing faster. Than

690
00:48:15,647 --> 00:48:21,007
others and slower. Sorry, the census period before China can

691
00:48:21,007 --> 00:48:23,807
saw population decline, so it was positive that we did

692
00:48:23,807 --> 00:48:28,047
see that 2.2% increase, but I will share that report

693
00:48:28,047 --> 00:48:32,474
when it's available. That would be great. Thank you. And

694
00:48:32,474 --> 00:48:35,914
then the last question would be, I know you referred

695
00:48:35,914 --> 00:48:39,634
to in order for us to continue to grow. Since

696
00:48:39,634 --> 00:48:44,312
we have an aging community, we would likely. Be continuing

697
00:48:44,312 --> 00:48:47,952
to prioritize immigrants and non permanent residents to come to

698
00:48:47,952 --> 00:48:52,674
Chatham, Kent. I think since the last census was complete,

699
00:48:52,674 --> 00:48:56,034
we have had a change fairly recently in federal immigration.

700
00:48:56,034 --> 00:49:00,554
Policy that could potentially restrict those numbers to the country,

701
00:49:00,554 --> 00:49:05,395
not just to Chatham, Kent, quite substantially. Have we considered

702
00:49:05,395 --> 00:49:10,711
that new policy development in our forecasting? Thank you. Through

703
00:49:10,711 --> 00:49:12,711
the mayor. Thank you for that question. So, yes, the

704
00:49:12,711 --> 00:49:15,271
stats that you would have saw up there would not

705
00:49:15,271 --> 00:49:18,911
have accounted for the recent policy changes from the federal

706
00:49:18,911 --> 00:49:22,855
government. There probably will be some impacts, but I think

707
00:49:22,855 --> 00:49:25,735
it's too early to know exactly what the impacts will

708
00:49:25,735 --> 00:49:30,216
be. Probably non permanent residents, which would include international students.

709
00:49:32,069 --> 00:49:34,669
Would see some lower enrollment numbers locally is probably one

710
00:49:34,669 --> 00:49:38,412
impact. But a lot of Chatham Ken's population growth that

711
00:49:38,412 --> 00:49:42,052
we looked at is coming from intra provincial migrants. So

712
00:49:42,052 --> 00:49:44,732
people who are already in the province of Ontario could

713
00:49:44,732 --> 00:49:47,372
have been here for six months, five years, ten years

714
00:49:47,372 --> 00:49:50,733
or more coming to the province. Or coming to the

715
00:49:50,733 --> 00:49:53,253
community. So I'm not sure if the actual impact that

716
00:49:53,253 --> 00:49:58,337
the policy might have on that migration trend. Thank you

717
00:49:58,337 --> 00:50:03,195
very much. Councilor C. McGregor, followed by Councillor Anderson. Thank

718
00:50:03,195 --> 00:50:05,475
you. And through the mayor, just a couple of questions.

719
00:50:08,273 --> 00:50:11,833
The non permanent residents. Are they included in the overall

720
00:50:11,833 --> 00:50:16,497
population tally? Through the mayor. Could you please repeat the

721
00:50:16,497 --> 00:50:22,461
question? Sorry. The non resident or non permanent residents that

722
00:50:22,461 --> 00:50:25,021
we saw numbers there, are they included in the overall

723
00:50:25,021 --> 00:50:28,981
population. Yes. They would be like, even if they're on

724
00:50:28,981 --> 00:50:31,541
a student visa and they're. Only projected to be here

725
00:50:31,541 --> 00:50:34,661
for in those estimates, they would be included in those.

726
00:50:34,661 --> 00:50:38,621
So they might not really be turned into permanent residents,

727
00:50:38,621 --> 00:50:41,405
correct? A non permanent resident. Yeah. There's no guarantee that

728
00:50:41,405 --> 00:50:45,915
they would stay in the country. When you're doing these

729
00:50:45,915 --> 00:50:50,235
studies, do you tallytal when you talk about interprovincial? People

730
00:50:50,235 --> 00:50:58,267
moving into Chatham, Kent. Whether or not they're returning members

731
00:50:58,267 --> 00:51:04,089
that may be left during. The time that we lost

732
00:51:04,089 --> 00:51:06,689
so many people that were leaving to find new jobs.

733
00:51:06,689 --> 00:51:09,249
Do we track how many of those are returning members?

734
00:51:10,910 --> 00:51:14,463
From the past. So through this data set, we wouldn't

735
00:51:14,463 --> 00:51:16,103
be able to get that answer. You wouldn't? Be able

736
00:51:16,103 --> 00:51:19,995
to see if that specific individual. Left the community and

737
00:51:19,995 --> 00:51:23,606
then came back. Through the work of resident attraction and

738
00:51:23,606 --> 00:51:27,366
retention with municipality. They do connect with people who have

739
00:51:27,366 --> 00:51:30,366
left the community and come back and tell their story.

740
00:51:30,366 --> 00:51:33,206
But as for the actual figures, through this data, set,

741
00:51:33,206 --> 00:51:36,286
there'd be no way of tracking one individual who left

742
00:51:36,286 --> 00:51:38,646
and decided to come back. Yeah, I remember. In the

743
00:51:38,646 --> 00:51:42,411
decline, a lot of people leaving and moving west. For

744
00:51:42,411 --> 00:51:47,491
jobs, but had family here that have since had families

745
00:51:47,491 --> 00:51:50,411
and decided to return. So I was just curious whether

746
00:51:50,411 --> 00:51:57,019
that was track. Thank you. Councilor Anderson. Thank you. And

747
00:51:57,019 --> 00:52:02,288
through you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you for this presentation. I'm

748
00:52:02,288 --> 00:52:05,192
just trying to understand. I definitely see the need for

749
00:52:05,192 --> 00:52:09,463
having more people. My question is more related to the

750
00:52:09,463 --> 00:52:12,303
types of people. What have we seen as far as

751
00:52:12,303 --> 00:52:16,666
economically. How this has improved for Chatham, Kent. Or how

752
00:52:16,666 --> 00:52:20,786
is this? What are our unemployment rates? Let's. Say, compared

753
00:52:20,786 --> 00:52:26,175
to. When. We had a much less population. Are they

754
00:52:26,175 --> 00:52:28,415
fulfilling jobs that we have that haven't been able to

755
00:52:28,415 --> 00:52:32,036
be fulfilled. Are we seeing an improvement because we have

756
00:52:32,036 --> 00:52:37,074
all these immigration coming to us? Is that value here?

757
00:52:38,574 --> 00:52:41,054
Through the mayor. Thank you for the question. We're definitely

758
00:52:41,054 --> 00:52:44,936
seeing a lot more diversity in the community. Immigrants who

759
00:52:44,936 --> 00:52:48,256
are coming are bringing skilled education with them. You really

760
00:52:48,256 --> 00:52:51,816
see that in the education trends? But the following presentation

761
00:52:51,816 --> 00:52:54,056
that's coming up next is going to do the deeper

762
00:52:54,056 --> 00:52:58,682
dive into. Employment trends, unemployment trends. So we'll see that

763
00:52:58,682 --> 00:53:02,782
coming up. Thank you. We'll move on to the next

764
00:53:02,782 --> 00:53:10,104
presentation then. It's the Jason's show. Next presentation is Chadam

765
00:53:10,104 --> 00:53:14,504
Kent, Workplace Planning Board 2025 update and we have a

766
00:53:14,504 --> 00:53:19,504
presentation from David Campbell, and he is on the call.

767
00:53:19,504 --> 00:53:22,835
David, are you there? I'm there. Can you hear me?

768
00:53:22,835 --> 00:53:24,755
Yes. And we can see you on the video in

769
00:53:24,755 --> 00:53:28,337
front of us. Thank you. Go ahead. Now. We can't

770
00:53:28,337 --> 00:53:32,416
hear you. No.

771
00:53:42,994 --> 00:53:45,434
We still can't hear you. I can hear a little

772
00:53:45,434 --> 00:53:47,394
bit of the echoing. I don't know if you want

773
00:53:47,394 --> 00:53:49,234
to turn off your camera and maybe try if that

774
00:53:49,234 --> 00:53:50,074
might help. I'm not sure.

775
00:54:00,214 --> 00:54:06,016
We still cannot hear you. Can see your presentation.

776
00:54:28,141 --> 00:54:34,584
Maybe we still cannot hear you. You were there at

777
00:54:34,584 --> 00:54:41,094
the very beginning. And then it stopped working.

778
00:54:58,674 --> 00:55:03,717
See your message. 1 second. It's an Internet issue.

779
00:55:11,628 --> 00:55:14,988
Okay, why don't we try that quickly, David, and see

780
00:55:14,988 --> 00:55:16,948
if you go back out and. Come back in and

781
00:55:16,948 --> 00:55:17,388
see if that works.

782
00:56:19,734 --> 00:56:21,974
Hi, David. I can see you again. Do you want

783
00:56:21,974 --> 00:56:31,021
to try your microphone? No. I can see you talking,

784
00:56:31,021 --> 00:56:39,390
but we cannot hear you. I've talked with Audrey. And

785
00:56:39,390 --> 00:56:41,990
unfortunately, if we can't get you to hear you, we'll

786
00:56:41,990 --> 00:56:45,274
just have to. Move on. And perhaps you can connect

787
00:56:45,274 --> 00:56:49,114
with Audrey about next steps. Is that okay? We're not

788
00:56:49,114 --> 00:56:50,714
having much luck when we have you on the virtual

789
00:56:50,714 --> 00:56:54,513
call, are we? Okay, no problem. I see your apology.

790
00:56:54,513 --> 00:57:04,421
Thank you. Yes. We'll move on to item 16.

791
00:57:04,421 --> 00:57:13,191
Finance, budget, information, technology and transformation. 16 a public utilities

792
00:57:13,191 --> 00:57:16,631
commission master plan review with a growth lens. We have

793
00:57:16,631 --> 00:57:21,554
a presentation from Jim Harnum. He's the president of the

794
00:57:21,554 --> 00:57:24,634
municipal Vu Consulting, Inc. Jim, if you'd like to. Come

795
00:57:24,634 --> 00:57:27,874
forward and give a brief introduction and start. We hope

796
00:57:27,874 --> 00:57:31,740
that you have better luck. The microphone is in front

797
00:57:31,740 --> 00:57:33,060
of you. If you just want to push the button

798
00:57:33,060 --> 00:57:40,275
till the red. Light comes on. Perfect. Get this up

799
00:57:40,275 --> 00:57:46,111
for a sec. Great. Well, good evening, Mr. Mayor and

800
00:57:46,111 --> 00:57:48,071
members of council. Thank you for allowing me to be

801
00:57:48,071 --> 00:57:51,751
here. To present this evening here to present to you

802
00:57:51,751 --> 00:57:54,551
the results of a study that we were commissioned. To

803
00:57:54,551 --> 00:57:58,551
do. For the. Do we have a presentation up there?

804
00:58:00,407 --> 00:58:09,191
I could plug in here. Thank you. We were commissioned

805
00:58:09,191 --> 00:58:13,431
by the POC to look at their water wastewater master

806
00:58:13,431 --> 00:58:17,363
plan. So you may or may not be aware that

807
00:58:17,363 --> 00:58:20,523
the POC hired a consulting firm to do a master

808
00:58:20,523 --> 00:58:22,683
plan came up with close to a billion dollars worth

809
00:58:22,683 --> 00:58:27,247
of projects. And quite a bit of a sticker shock

810
00:58:27,247 --> 00:58:31,087
for this community. So they'd asked us. To look at

811
00:58:31,087 --> 00:58:35,318
that and try and prioritize and see. What could we

812
00:58:35,318 --> 00:58:39,409
do? To really make this more affordable. Go to the

813
00:58:39,409 --> 00:58:43,003
next slide, please. Start my presentation here, so I'm on

814
00:58:43,003 --> 00:58:51,269
the same slide. There we go. Can't quite see the

815
00:58:51,269 --> 00:58:54,989
bottom part of this. There we go. Thank you. So

816
00:58:54,989 --> 00:58:57,389
really what they asked us to do was to optimize

817
00:58:57,389 --> 00:59:01,349
the infrastructure investment priorities and support the long term service

818
00:59:01,349 --> 00:59:06,093
delivery and encourage growth in the community. So there was

819
00:59:06,093 --> 00:59:08,693
about four objectives that we were to look at, and

820
00:59:08,693 --> 00:59:10,693
it was to review the master plan and other key

821
00:59:10,693 --> 00:59:15,518
documentation. They wanted us to develop an actionable recommendation plan

822
00:59:15,518 --> 00:59:18,998
that observed risks and tried to balance those risks with

823
00:59:18,998 --> 00:59:23,879
growth and levels of service. Identify constraints and risks and

824
00:59:23,879 --> 00:59:27,639
opportunities while we were going through this exercise, and then

825
00:59:27,639 --> 00:59:32,959
lastly, develop a high level alternatives and potential phasing options

826
00:59:32,959 --> 00:59:38,102
for the master plan. Next slide. So when we started

827
00:59:38,102 --> 00:59:40,822
this project, these were some of the discussions we had,

828
00:59:40,822 --> 00:59:43,582
not only with Chatham. Kent staff but also with the

829
00:59:43,582 --> 00:59:48,507
PUC staff. And some of these challenges started to come

830
00:59:48,507 --> 00:59:52,262
to the surface. The first was. The obvious that the

831
00:59:52,262 --> 00:59:57,628
Master plan capital forecast forecasts were unaffordable. Next was the

832
00:59:57,628 --> 01:00:04,157
water wastewater facilities. We're really having. Competing priorities between the

833
01:00:04,157 --> 01:00:08,566
state of good repair. And. The potential growth that the

834
01:00:08,566 --> 01:00:13,517
community is facing. Next we have over the last while

835
01:00:13,517 --> 01:00:16,277
in Chatham tent, you've had limited growth as you're probably

836
01:00:16,277 --> 01:00:19,157
well aware, but with the things changing at the province

837
01:00:19,157 --> 01:00:22,597
and the housing shortage, growth has been accelerating in Chatham,

838
01:00:22,597 --> 01:00:27,397
Kent, and there's estimates of 1% growth in the short

839
01:00:27,397 --> 01:00:30,597
term for this community, which it hasn't seen for quite

840
01:00:30,597 --> 01:00:36,108
some. Time. Wallaceburg costs were continuing to escalate, not just

841
01:00:36,108 --> 01:00:40,283
the capital cost. But the actual scope of the project

842
01:00:40,283 --> 01:00:43,883
was escalating, and all capital projects are escalating. As you're

843
01:00:43,883 --> 01:00:47,116
well aware and you see many times. Through reports that

844
01:00:47,116 --> 01:00:53,043
come before you. Agricultural greenhouse demands and DC discounts were

845
01:00:53,043 --> 01:00:58,149
not sustainable, so there was a huge demand. Or projected

846
01:00:58,149 --> 01:01:03,349
demand of greenhouses between Dresden and Wallaceburg, as well as

847
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:08,801
closer to. The south end of Chatham, Kent. And right

848
01:01:08,801 --> 01:01:13,361
now, those greenhouses were also discounted under the DC bylaw,

849
01:01:13,361 --> 01:01:18,135
so that wasn't something that was sustainable. And there happened

850
01:01:18,135 --> 01:01:21,655
to be some disconnect between the PUC and the municipal

851
01:01:21,655 --> 01:01:24,895
staff when it came to, what were the priorities and.

852
01:01:26,125 --> 01:01:31,035
What was. The main priority going forward. And then lastly,

853
01:01:31,035 --> 01:01:33,795
we felt that there were some resource opportunities that were

854
01:01:33,795 --> 01:01:36,435
not fully utilized. And what that means is we think

855
01:01:36,435 --> 01:01:40,315
that there was opportunities to do things better. Cheaper, faster.

856
01:01:42,042 --> 01:01:44,082
And prioritize some of these things, and that's what we

857
01:01:44,082 --> 01:01:47,757
ended up looking at. Through this project. Next slide, please.

858
01:01:49,936 --> 01:01:51,296
So I won't spend a lot of time on this,

859
01:01:51,296 --> 01:01:53,976
but just to demonstrate to you, that we did follow

860
01:01:53,976 --> 01:01:57,776
a very extensive process when we went through this project.

861
01:01:57,776 --> 01:02:01,576
We started with a discovery phase. And we looked at

862
01:02:01,576 --> 01:02:04,296
having a kickoff meeting not only with a PUC staff,

863
01:02:04,296 --> 01:02:08,752
but also with the Chatham Kent staff. We basically reviewed

864
01:02:08,752 --> 01:02:12,593
every document that we could get our hands on. Data.

865
01:02:13,825 --> 01:02:18,973
Information about the treatment plants, the projects, the history. There's

866
01:02:18,973 --> 01:02:23,674
numerous reports. That are giving you a snapshot of what's

867
01:02:23,674 --> 01:02:26,634
happening in Chatham. Kent. We reviewed all of that. We

868
01:02:26,634 --> 01:02:29,634
did interview the mayor and some of the PUC board

869
01:02:29,634 --> 01:02:35,408
members, as well as. Numerous Chatham, Kent staff and PUC

870
01:02:35,408 --> 01:02:38,928
staff. Next, we went into our diagnosis phase and we

871
01:02:38,928 --> 01:02:42,568
looked at benchmarking some other municipalities that are similar size

872
01:02:42,568 --> 01:02:46,064
to yourself. We went through a visioning workshop with the

873
01:02:46,064 --> 01:02:50,264
PUC staff and the Chatham Kent staff. We reviewed the

874
01:02:50,264 --> 01:02:54,004
constraints and opportunities. What were some of the opportunities that

875
01:02:54,004 --> 01:02:56,844
were presenting themselves through this? And then we produced a

876
01:02:56,844 --> 01:03:01,360
current state assessment. And lastly, we went into the phase

877
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:05,040
three, which is the options development, and we came up

878
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:10,847
with. A prioritization framework and looked at the financial analysis

879
01:03:10,847 --> 01:03:14,767
of the potential solutions. And then again we workshop this

880
01:03:14,767 --> 01:03:18,087
with the PUC staff and with the Chatham Kent staff,

881
01:03:18,087 --> 01:03:21,087
and then we produced a final report, and we're here

882
01:03:21,087 --> 01:03:25,989
today to present that report to you. Next slide. So.

883
01:03:25,989 --> 01:03:30,961
Really? This diagram here shows you when we were originally

884
01:03:30,961 --> 01:03:35,903
brought on. Our focus was to look at the master

885
01:03:35,903 --> 01:03:39,183
plan projects, water and wastewater master plan projects. But as

886
01:03:39,183 --> 01:03:42,263
we started reading as we started going more through the

887
01:03:42,263 --> 01:03:45,983
documentation and having more discussions with staff in both Chatham,

888
01:03:45,983 --> 01:03:48,663
Kenta and the PUC, we realized there was a lot

889
01:03:48,663 --> 01:03:51,669
more below the tip. Of the iceberg. So what we've

890
01:03:51,669 --> 01:03:55,549
organized this report in is these categories, and really what

891
01:03:55,549 --> 01:03:58,949
we have is the water wastewater master plan projects are

892
01:03:58,949 --> 01:04:01,909
just a list of projects, but below that we have

893
01:04:01,909 --> 01:04:05,149
a whole bunch of EA's, three main ones that we

894
01:04:05,149 --> 01:04:07,189
want to talk about in this report. Or we do

895
01:04:07,189 --> 01:04:11,189
talk about is the Wallaceburg Ea, the southeast Chatham ea

896
01:04:11,189 --> 01:04:14,532
and. The southwest Chatham ea, and then below that, you

897
01:04:14,532 --> 01:04:18,116
have a lot of operational studies. That some are there

898
01:04:18,116 --> 01:04:21,598
and some aren't there, but. They really help you. The

899
01:04:21,598 --> 01:04:24,278
classy A's and the master plan are your long term.

900
01:04:24,278 --> 01:04:28,878
Studies, but your short term studies, operational studies like plant

901
01:04:28,878 --> 01:04:34,358
building condition assessments, water loss studies, and ini are inflow

902
01:04:34,358 --> 01:04:37,438
and infiltration studies. We want to talk a little bit

903
01:04:37,438 --> 01:04:41,358
about those. Lastly, we have foundational plans and. Those are

904
01:04:41,358 --> 01:04:44,918
your big plans, like asset management plans, the rate study,

905
01:04:44,918 --> 01:04:49,158
water and wastewater rate study, the official plan itself. And

906
01:04:49,158 --> 01:04:51,718
then the master plan itself. Not the project, but the

907
01:04:51,718 --> 01:04:55,318
master plan itself is. One of those foundational plans, and

908
01:04:55,318 --> 01:04:58,078
then below all of that is really the need for

909
01:04:58,078 --> 01:05:03,364
a strategic business plan and. Having levels of service defined

910
01:05:03,364 --> 01:05:05,724
and key performance indicators. So I'm going to go through

911
01:05:05,724 --> 01:05:11,201
these. Very quickly, these various parts that we discovered. In

912
01:05:11,201 --> 01:05:15,574
our work with the puc. So the master plans the

913
01:05:15,574 --> 01:05:21,690
next slide. We divided the master plan projects. There was

914
01:05:21,690 --> 01:05:26,290
numerous projects that added up to about $985,000,000. And we

915
01:05:26,290 --> 01:05:30,210
divided these projects up into green, yellow and red. The

916
01:05:30,210 --> 01:05:38,711
green projects. Being projects. That. The green projects were projects

917
01:05:38,711 --> 01:05:41,751
that we deemed were ready to proceed and they didn't

918
01:05:41,751 --> 01:05:44,951
need. Any further study, and they were a priority for

919
01:05:44,951 --> 01:05:50,009
the municipality and. The puc. I'll get into the other

920
01:05:50,009 --> 01:05:54,488
ones in a minute. We then went through yellow projects,

921
01:05:54,488 --> 01:05:58,353
which are projects that we feel. Could proceed, but they

922
01:05:58,353 --> 01:06:02,953
needed further investigation. And then lastly, red category were projects

923
01:06:02,953 --> 01:06:06,553
that should be halted. And further study on those projects

924
01:06:06,553 --> 01:06:09,912
needed to happen. It may be a completely different solution.

925
01:06:11,771 --> 01:06:13,571
And Wallaceburg will be one of those that we'll talk

926
01:06:13,571 --> 01:06:17,209
about quite a bit. So in this slide, you'll see

927
01:06:17,209 --> 01:06:22,089
we have approximately $94 million worth of projects out. Of

928
01:06:22,089 --> 01:06:26,529
the 985,000,000 that we're saying, who should go ahead with.

929
01:06:26,529 --> 01:06:31,296
For various reasons. They're either critical for water security or

930
01:06:31,296 --> 01:06:36,011
pressures or. State of good repair for infrastructure, and they're

931
01:06:36,011 --> 01:06:39,451
ready to go, and they will add benefit. To the

932
01:06:39,451 --> 01:06:43,611
community and the PUC. You'll see also that a lot

933
01:06:43,611 --> 01:06:46,411
of these are in the short term and the interim.

934
01:06:46,411 --> 01:06:49,011
So in the one to five to seven year time

935
01:06:49,011 --> 01:06:52,567
frame. And a lot of these projects do take that

936
01:06:52,567 --> 01:06:57,407
long to carry out. Next slide. So this is the

937
01:06:57,407 --> 01:06:59,607
yellow projects, and this is the ones that we've said

938
01:06:59,607 --> 01:07:03,127
to refresh. Your memory is to pause until further investigation,

939
01:07:03,127 --> 01:07:05,487
but they probably will proceed at some point in the

940
01:07:05,487 --> 01:07:08,487
future again. You start to see a shift now that

941
01:07:08,487 --> 01:07:12,007
these are shifting more into the medium. To long term.

942
01:07:12,007 --> 01:07:14,327
So we're really not. By halting them and doing more

943
01:07:14,327 --> 01:07:18,393
investigation, we're not holding. Up a lot of the work

944
01:07:18,393 --> 01:07:22,268
that is planned. But we do feel that there's further

945
01:07:22,268 --> 01:07:25,548
studies and further things that are required before we commit

946
01:07:25,548 --> 01:07:30,186
these dollars and get moving on these dollars. Next slide.

947
01:07:31,723 --> 01:07:34,163
And you'll have these packages, I'm assuming, so you can

948
01:07:34,163 --> 01:07:36,083
read the projects. I won't go through all the projects.

949
01:07:37,914 --> 01:07:42,964
And the next slide is really. Stop these projects. And

950
01:07:42,964 --> 01:07:47,124
do some studies and. They may actually yield different solutions

951
01:07:47,124 --> 01:07:50,084
altogether. So it may not be the solution that was

952
01:07:50,084 --> 01:07:53,773
put forward. In the master plan itself. And again, you'll

953
01:07:53,773 --> 01:07:57,735
see. These are into the short and medium, long term.

954
01:07:57,735 --> 01:08:01,055
And a couple of those biggest numbers are the Wallaceburg

955
01:08:01,055 --> 01:08:05,538
supply system, but also the Chatham water supply system. And

956
01:08:05,538 --> 01:08:11,138
then there is about $225,000,000 identified for combined sewer separation.

957
01:08:11,138 --> 01:08:13,178
And we'll talk about some of these projects in a

958
01:08:13,178 --> 01:08:15,538
minute as well when we get into the EA's and

959
01:08:15,538 --> 01:08:20,778
the operational studies, but we're saying there's $593,000,000. Worth of

960
01:08:20,778 --> 01:08:23,378
projects, or almost half of the projects that you should

961
01:08:23,378 --> 01:08:27,068
halt because we think? That there's probably a better solution.

962
01:08:27,068 --> 01:08:30,214
Or there may be a better solution. Than going ahead

963
01:08:30,214 --> 01:08:33,888
with these projects or a different solution. At the very

964
01:08:33,888 --> 01:08:38,438
least. Next project or next slide? Sorry, projects on my

965
01:08:38,438 --> 01:08:42,252
mind. So the next part of this is really the

966
01:08:42,252 --> 01:08:47,757
class ea the next slide. So the main one we

967
01:08:47,757 --> 01:08:51,877
want to talk about today is the Wallaceburg EA and

968
01:08:51,877 --> 01:08:55,997
this accounts. For over $150,000,000 worth of the projects that

969
01:08:55,997 --> 01:08:59,717
we're talking about. Halting or recommending to halt. And I

970
01:08:59,717 --> 01:09:01,237
want to give you a little bit of background. On

971
01:09:01,237 --> 01:09:05,317
the Wallaceburg EA back in 2012. This has been going.

972
01:09:05,940 --> 01:09:09,140
On. As many of you been around this table probably

973
01:09:09,140 --> 01:09:10,980
know that this has been going on for quite some

974
01:09:10,980 --> 01:09:15,700
time with Wallaceburg. Back in 2012, a company called Dylan

975
01:09:15,700 --> 01:09:20,439
was hired to do an EA. And their recommendation was

976
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:24,959
to bring a pipe from Chatham to Wallace Burke. In

977
01:09:24,959 --> 01:09:29,359
2016, a second study was done by a company called

978
01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:34,039
Stantech. They're a well known engineering firm, and they also

979
01:09:34,039 --> 01:09:37,133
came up with. A preferred option being three a in

980
01:09:37,133 --> 01:09:40,213
their study of a pipe. And then there was quite

981
01:09:40,213 --> 01:09:42,493
a bit of pushback from the community and quite a

982
01:09:42,493 --> 01:09:45,853
bit of discomfort with this idea of a pipe coming

983
01:09:45,853 --> 01:09:49,413
from Chatham. They like their water supply that they have.

984
01:09:49,413 --> 01:09:51,853
And so there was an amendment. Made to that, and

985
01:09:51,853 --> 01:09:56,501
they landed on upgrading the Wallace treatment plan. Plant, not

986
01:09:56,501 --> 01:09:59,901
replacing it, but upgrading it and fixing the things that

987
01:09:59,901 --> 01:10:03,981
are wrong with it and the pipe option was about

988
01:10:03,981 --> 01:10:08,781
$11.9 million at the time, and that's probably upwards. Of

989
01:10:08,781 --> 01:10:12,981
2020, $5 million in today's dollars. Then there was also

990
01:10:12,981 --> 01:10:17,936
Jacobs, who did an EA. And then they identified upgrading

991
01:10:17,936 --> 01:10:23,296
the existing Wallaceburg, and it would be roughly $26 million

992
01:10:23,296 --> 01:10:27,494
and an additional $10 million. For the total upgrade of

993
01:10:27,494 --> 01:10:31,134
that, which was about $36 million for that study. Then

994
01:10:31,134 --> 01:10:36,918
we come to 2023. And again, the same company, Jacobs

995
01:10:36,918 --> 01:10:41,999
does an EA. And now with the existing. Plant is

996
01:10:41,999 --> 01:10:48,843
about 14 megaliters per day. That, along. With. The projected

997
01:10:48,843 --> 01:10:52,883
demand of these greenhouses was going to bring this plant

998
01:10:52,883 --> 01:10:55,683
to a 28 megal. A day plant. It was going

999
01:10:55,683 --> 01:10:58,963
to completely replace the plant, build a new intake, build

1000
01:10:58,963 --> 01:11:02,203
a new reservoir, a low lift pumping station, and also.

1001
01:11:03,638 --> 01:11:07,488
New treatment facilities as well. And that was pegged at

1002
01:11:07,488 --> 01:11:12,088
about $117,000,000. And now that cost has been inflated. It's

1003
01:11:12,088 --> 01:11:17,658
sitting at about $150,000,000, and that cost. Is probably closer

1004
01:11:17,658 --> 01:11:20,098
to $200 million by the time you build this plant.

1005
01:11:21,833 --> 01:11:24,953
So our recommendation on Wallace Berg. The next slide, please.

1006
01:11:26,780 --> 01:11:30,940
Is to really repair the existing immediate concerns at Wallaceburg.

1007
01:11:30,940 --> 01:11:34,060
There are some things that need immediate attention in the

1008
01:11:34,060 --> 01:11:39,250
Wallaceburg plant. That have pretty well been on hold until

1009
01:11:39,250 --> 01:11:42,410
nothing that's affecting the water quality or safety. But they've

1010
01:11:42,410 --> 01:11:45,090
been on hold with all of these studies that have

1011
01:11:45,090 --> 01:11:48,090
been going on, so. We're suggesting that we get those

1012
01:11:48,090 --> 01:11:51,090
repairs done and get some things fixed at the Wallaceburg.

1013
01:11:51,090 --> 01:11:55,025
Plant. There has been a lot of talk about the

1014
01:11:55,025 --> 01:11:58,545
EA rules changing in the near future, and really loosening

1015
01:11:58,545 --> 01:12:00,785
requirements. You're hearing about some of these things in the

1016
01:12:00,785 --> 01:12:06,926
media. And really, we're saying that. You should be looking

1017
01:12:06,926 --> 01:12:10,926
at utilizing the existing wallets. You could use the existing

1018
01:12:10,926 --> 01:12:15,526
Wallaceburg plant. For these greenhouses alone, and they would pay

1019
01:12:15,526 --> 01:12:18,486
the entire amount if you separate the water and say?

1020
01:12:19,667 --> 01:12:22,987
Greenhouses don't need treated water. Greenhouse is prefer raw water.

1021
01:12:22,987 --> 01:12:25,387
They actually take the chlorine. Out of the water when

1022
01:12:25,387 --> 01:12:27,987
they use that water. So there is an option to

1023
01:12:27,987 --> 01:12:31,387
take that existing Wallaceburg plant and make it a raw

1024
01:12:31,387 --> 01:12:35,307
water pumping station to supply the greenhouses. It would be

1025
01:12:35,307 --> 01:12:38,107
for the sole purpose of greenhouses, so they would be.

1026
01:12:40,052 --> 01:12:42,812
The sole benefactor. Therefore they would pay for that 100%

1027
01:12:42,812 --> 01:12:47,332
and not the residents of Chatham, Kent. A fallback position

1028
01:12:47,332 --> 01:12:52,514
of that would be. To just upgrade the plant. The

1029
01:12:52,514 --> 01:12:56,594
existing 14 megalitre a day plant that's there, upgrade it,

1030
01:12:56,594 --> 01:13:00,634
and again, the cost that we're in the 2022 EA

1031
01:13:00,634 --> 01:13:04,074
were 26 million and 10 million. But obviously those have

1032
01:13:04,074 --> 01:13:06,794
also inflated. And there's a bunch of other things that

1033
01:13:06,794 --> 01:13:11,963
the PUC recognizes. In the Wallaceburg plant. So really it's

1034
01:13:11,963 --> 01:13:16,601
depending on the EA timing. We feel that. You should

1035
01:13:16,601 --> 01:13:19,321
carry out with that original plan of running a pipe

1036
01:13:19,321 --> 01:13:22,801
from Chatham tent or from Chatham. I should say to

1037
01:13:22,801 --> 01:13:28,262
Wallaceburg. And plan the plant expansion of Wallaceburg or of

1038
01:13:28,262 --> 01:13:32,809
Chatham, I should say. In conjunction with that pipe. So

1039
01:13:32,809 --> 01:13:35,609
you have to do some work to chat them anyway

1040
01:13:35,609 --> 01:13:38,449
for growth. And for the future of Chatham. So make

1041
01:13:38,449 --> 01:13:41,329
that plant bigger. You've already got the property. In the

1042
01:13:41,329 --> 01:13:45,361
footprint and run the pipe up to Wallaceburg. And I'll

1043
01:13:45,361 --> 01:13:47,081
talk a bit more about that in some of the

1044
01:13:47,081 --> 01:13:52,016
coming slides. Next slide. So the second one that I

1045
01:13:52,016 --> 01:13:56,096
wanted to talk about is called the Chatham southeast ea,

1046
01:13:56,096 --> 01:13:59,656
and this is really about Ridgetown in Blenheim. The problem

1047
01:13:59,656 --> 01:14:02,976
we have here, we're recommending. That this. Carry on and

1048
01:14:02,976 --> 01:14:08,016
this. Go ahead. The Richtown Highgate groundwater supply has difficulty.

1049
01:14:08,016 --> 01:14:12,761
Producing. Aesthetically pleasing water, so it's safe water, but it's

1050
01:14:12,761 --> 01:14:17,977
not always aesthetically. Pleasing as well. There's about 56 year

1051
01:14:17,977 --> 01:14:24,056
old reservoir and 55 year old. Pipes and elevated tank

1052
01:14:24,056 --> 01:14:27,376
in that area that are going to need replacing or

1053
01:14:27,376 --> 01:14:31,016
upgrading. So rather than do that. There's a plan to

1054
01:14:31,016 --> 01:14:34,656
bring that water across from the South Chatham, Kent water.

1055
01:14:34,656 --> 01:14:39,409
Transmission system. With a 600 millimeter pipe from the chair

1056
01:14:39,409 --> 01:14:44,443
and cross road, and that would eliminate this system. And

1057
01:14:44,443 --> 01:14:47,163
same with the Wallaceburg plant. We would be eliminating a

1058
01:14:47,163 --> 01:14:50,283
plant which has a lot of operational costs in it.

1059
01:14:50,283 --> 01:14:53,803
There's chemicals, there's employees, there's power, all of those things

1060
01:14:53,803 --> 01:14:56,843
that we need to think about, not just the capital

1061
01:14:56,843 --> 01:14:59,843
cost. There's a long term operating cost that I'll talk

1062
01:14:59,843 --> 01:15:04,739
about a bit further as well. Next slide. So lastly

1063
01:15:04,739 --> 01:15:10,397
is the southwest Chatham growth and servicing study. This area

1064
01:15:10,397 --> 01:15:14,597
has the potential for needed industrial, commercial and housing in

1065
01:15:14,597 --> 01:15:17,971
the area. It's partly outside the urban boundary right now,

1066
01:15:17,971 --> 01:15:20,537
but it is. An important growth area. A lot of

1067
01:15:20,537 --> 01:15:22,137
it is in the urban boundary, but a part of

1068
01:15:22,137 --> 01:15:26,047
it is outside the urban boundary. The servicing study was

1069
01:15:26,047 --> 01:15:28,447
started on this before the master plan and it was

1070
01:15:28,447 --> 01:15:32,611
halted, hoping the two of them would come together. That

1071
01:15:32,611 --> 01:15:35,291
wasn't the case. There was nothing considered for this area.

1072
01:15:36,433 --> 01:15:42,486
In the POC's water wastewater master plan. And it's likely

1073
01:15:42,486 --> 01:15:45,926
that the next official plan will include some, if not

1074
01:15:45,926 --> 01:15:49,326
a good portion. Of these lands. There has been a

1075
01:15:49,326 --> 01:15:54,035
great deal of ongoing communication with the PUC. And the

1076
01:15:54,035 --> 01:15:58,275
Chatham Kent staff on this area now. But there is

1077
01:15:58,275 --> 01:16:02,835
potentially upwards of $500 million in water wastewater alone that's

1078
01:16:02,835 --> 01:16:07,129
required for the full build out of this area. The

1079
01:16:07,129 --> 01:16:12,800
next slide. So next we have operational studies. So we've

1080
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:18,784
got. Next slide, please. We've got a bunch of things

1081
01:16:18,784 --> 01:16:22,384
that we feel the Puc should. So this started. To

1082
01:16:22,384 --> 01:16:24,824
go a little bit over and above what our original

1083
01:16:24,824 --> 01:16:29,932
scope was. With respect to just prioritizing the capital programs.

1084
01:16:29,932 --> 01:16:32,292
But as we're going through these we're seeing some of

1085
01:16:32,292 --> 01:16:35,372
these issues, and so we've made some recommendations on this.

1086
01:16:35,372 --> 01:16:39,596
As well. We think that the POC should immediately begin

1087
01:16:39,596 --> 01:16:42,516
detailed condition assessments of all the pumping stations and treatment

1088
01:16:42,516 --> 01:16:48,000
facilities. They do do building condition assessments. But from staff

1089
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:50,880
resources not only in the PUC but also in Chatham.

1090
01:16:52,911 --> 01:16:56,351
It's difficult to get those assessments done. We feel that

1091
01:16:56,351 --> 01:16:58,751
you should do a ten year program and get all

1092
01:16:58,751 --> 01:17:01,071
of those facilities you need to know the status of

1093
01:17:01,071 --> 01:17:03,631
those facilities you need. To know what shape they're in.

1094
01:17:03,631 --> 01:17:05,031
How much money is it going to be to fix?

1095
01:17:05,031 --> 01:17:06,591
Them and keep them in a state of good repair.

1096
01:17:08,371 --> 01:17:12,731
And these building condition assessments are critical to ensuring that.

1097
01:17:14,116 --> 01:17:16,858
You're also managing the growth. And the state of good

1098
01:17:16,858 --> 01:17:19,698
repair together. So if you know the condition of the

1099
01:17:19,698 --> 01:17:23,578
facility, you will. Say, okay, let's not replace that facility,

1100
01:17:23,578 --> 01:17:26,258
because growth that we're going to build something for growth.

1101
01:17:26,258 --> 01:17:28,418
So you have the two of them that are aligned.

1102
01:17:29,919 --> 01:17:34,980
Next slide. The next operational study that we're recommending is

1103
01:17:34,980 --> 01:17:39,505
ini studies and water loss studies. We've got anywhere from

1104
01:17:39,505 --> 01:17:46,123
15% to 55% water loss. In the POC system. So

1105
01:17:46,123 --> 01:17:51,227
that means if you produce. 100 liters of water. 55%

1106
01:17:51,227 --> 01:17:53,347
of that in some areas is being lost. So you're.

1107
01:17:53,347 --> 01:17:58,427
Only actually pumping out 45 liters, and the other 55%

1108
01:17:58,427 --> 01:18:01,027
of that water is being lost somewhere. There's a bunch

1109
01:18:01,027 --> 01:18:04,907
of different reasons. There's firefighting, there's operational flushing. You've got

1110
01:18:04,907 --> 01:18:07,187
a lot of dead ends, a lot of small two

1111
01:18:07,187 --> 01:18:10,507
and four. Inch mains. In the system, but you also

1112
01:18:10,507 --> 01:18:14,427
have leakage, so we're recommending that you do. An Ini

1113
01:18:14,427 --> 01:18:18,292
study and find out where that water is going. It's

1114
01:18:18,292 --> 01:18:22,418
much more economical. To find water that's already being produced

1115
01:18:22,418 --> 01:18:26,294
and lost than it is to expand a plant. For

1116
01:18:26,294 --> 01:18:29,134
tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars, you may

1117
01:18:29,134 --> 01:18:33,694
spend $10 million finding these leaks. And improving your operations,

1118
01:18:33,694 --> 01:18:35,574
so it makes more sense to do these studies. On

1119
01:18:35,574 --> 01:18:39,414
the flip side is the sewers. So the sewers have

1120
01:18:39,414 --> 01:18:43,774
ini or inflow and infiltration and that. Water comes into

1121
01:18:43,774 --> 01:18:46,435
the sewers and it's not supposed to come into. The

1122
01:18:46,435 --> 01:18:48,435
sewer. So you have a combined sewer system where the

1123
01:18:48,435 --> 01:18:50,955
water is supposed to come into the sewers, but you

1124
01:18:50,955 --> 01:18:53,795
also have ini, which is water that's not supposed to

1125
01:18:53,795 --> 01:18:57,392
come. Into the sewers. And that you've got about $25

1126
01:18:57,392 --> 01:19:01,421
million in the master plan. For upgrading some of those

1127
01:19:01,421 --> 01:19:04,821
pipes and making them bigger so that we don't end

1128
01:19:04,821 --> 01:19:07,781
up with flooding. And we're suggesting that you would be

1129
01:19:07,781 --> 01:19:10,861
better to find some of these leaks. And how is

1130
01:19:10,861 --> 01:19:14,478
the water getting into that system so that. It's a

1131
01:19:14,478 --> 01:19:17,678
better bang for your buck than just upsizing pipes to

1132
01:19:17,678 --> 01:19:20,998
deal with water. That shouldn't be there. So again, the

1133
01:19:20,998 --> 01:19:23,318
last point there is the return on investment for water

1134
01:19:23,318 --> 01:19:29,122
loss and ini. Are much higher compared to upsizing or

1135
01:19:29,122 --> 01:19:34,290
building more treatment capacity. Next slide. Thank you. So the

1136
01:19:34,290 --> 01:19:38,850
last one is there's about $225,000,000 identified in the Master

1137
01:19:38,850 --> 01:19:44,023
plan for sewer separations over the next ten years. And

1138
01:19:44,023 --> 01:19:47,583
our recommendation. You've got an engineering firm that I've worked

1139
01:19:47,583 --> 01:19:51,463
with over my. Career as well. Andrew's engineering, excellent firm.

1140
01:19:51,463 --> 01:19:53,703
They've come up with all of these. Plans to do.

1141
01:19:55,236 --> 01:19:58,276
Sewer separation, but there's no real concrete plan, and there's

1142
01:19:58,276 --> 01:20:02,472
a combination between. The Chatham Kent staff and the PUC

1143
01:20:02,472 --> 01:20:08,694
staff that are responsible for this, but really. We're saying?

1144
01:20:09,462 --> 01:20:14,441
There's a guide called f five. Five guidelines. That say?

1145
01:20:15,630 --> 01:20:17,910
You can manage this flow. You don't have to separate

1146
01:20:17,910 --> 01:20:22,015
everything. If it's not. Affordable. So we're saying take a

1147
01:20:22,015 --> 01:20:26,015
pause on this. 225,000,000. You still have. Projects going forward

1148
01:20:26,015 --> 01:20:29,015
that our sewer separations when you're rebuilding a road. And

1149
01:20:29,015 --> 01:20:30,655
we heard some of those the last time we were

1150
01:20:30,655 --> 01:20:34,311
here. But it's really come up with a solid ten

1151
01:20:34,311 --> 01:20:37,711
year plan right now, that's just a big chunk placeholder

1152
01:20:37,711 --> 01:20:42,631
that's in YOur master plan that says somewhere around $225,000,000.

1153
01:20:42,631 --> 01:20:45,791
We need. So we're saying, get a better, more concrete

1154
01:20:45,791 --> 01:20:53,423
plan. For that $225,000,000. Next slide. One more. So then

1155
01:20:53,423 --> 01:20:56,503
you have. Below that you have foundational plans. And this

1156
01:20:56,503 --> 01:21:01,447
is your official plan. And then your municipal DC bylaw.

1157
01:21:01,447 --> 01:21:05,527
The municipal DC bylaw is set to expire in. 2027.

1158
01:21:05,527 --> 01:21:08,447
So there's an urgency here to get a lot of

1159
01:21:08,447 --> 01:21:11,487
these things figured out. And cost it out so that

1160
01:21:11,487 --> 01:21:14,487
we can put this money into the DC bylaw so

1161
01:21:14,487 --> 01:21:17,779
that. You're appropriately recovering that from the development community. If

1162
01:21:17,779 --> 01:21:22,009
it's truly for growth. The rate study which council and

1163
01:21:22,009 --> 01:21:25,681
the PUC has passed. That was a big step forward

1164
01:21:25,681 --> 01:21:28,481
as well to making sure that you have enough money

1165
01:21:28,481 --> 01:21:31,681
to sustain. The state of good repair for these assets,

1166
01:21:31,681 --> 01:21:35,998
and that should be reviewed every five years. And then

1167
01:21:35,998 --> 01:21:39,678
we're suggesting that you consider an entirely new water wastewater

1168
01:21:39,678 --> 01:21:42,638
master plan that looks at some of these solutions that

1169
01:21:42,638 --> 01:21:47,542
we put forward in more detail. And then lastly. Is

1170
01:21:47,542 --> 01:21:52,422
the need for an asset management plan. Under regulation 588,

1171
01:21:52,422 --> 01:21:55,062
you need to be compliant by July of this year.

1172
01:21:56,314 --> 01:22:00,546
With. A new full asset management plan, which is the

1173
01:22:00,546 --> 01:22:03,586
future levels of service, and I know the staff are

1174
01:22:03,586 --> 01:22:08,172
working on that now. But it's coordinating that asset management

1175
01:22:08,172 --> 01:22:11,772
plan, which is about the existing assets you have with

1176
01:22:11,772 --> 01:22:15,132
the growth, which is the master plan assets and making

1177
01:22:15,132 --> 01:22:18,172
sure that those two things have enough money. That they're

1178
01:22:18,172 --> 01:22:22,884
not competing with each other. Next slide. Lastly, a couple

1179
01:22:22,884 --> 01:22:27,767
more slides here. Our foundational thing here is we feel.

1180
01:22:29,003 --> 01:22:31,523
That the POC is lacking in a long term strategic

1181
01:22:31,523 --> 01:22:34,603
business plan. They do have a business plan, but we're

1182
01:22:34,603 --> 01:22:38,577
looking at things like. A mandate. Overall goals, what are

1183
01:22:38,577 --> 01:22:42,537
the key levels of service and key performance indicators, and

1184
01:22:42,537 --> 01:22:46,537
then really having a stakeholder management strategy when you have

1185
01:22:46,537 --> 01:22:51,226
limited resources. This is critical to have. A good long

1186
01:22:51,226 --> 01:22:54,986
term strategic plan. And knowing where you're going for the

1187
01:22:54,986 --> 01:22:59,132
next 10, 20, 30 years. We're suggesting what we call

1188
01:22:59,132 --> 01:23:01,852
a municipal view model, which is our model, which has

1189
01:23:01,852 --> 01:23:04,852
built. Off of another model, which is called the balanced

1190
01:23:04,852 --> 01:23:08,652
scorecard approach. And there's also Baldridge approach. There's many ways

1191
01:23:08,652 --> 01:23:12,066
to do this. Strategic planning. I'll just go to the

1192
01:23:12,066 --> 01:23:15,146
next slide. Which gives you an idea what we're talking

1193
01:23:15,146 --> 01:23:20,562
about with. A municipal view model business strategy. It's really

1194
01:23:20,562 --> 01:23:23,762
looking at what are the customers you have. And what

1195
01:23:23,762 --> 01:23:27,082
are the services you provide to them? What are the

1196
01:23:27,082 --> 01:23:30,762
operations and processes that you have to provide those services

1197
01:23:30,762 --> 01:23:34,326
and how much do they cost. What technology improvements do

1198
01:23:34,326 --> 01:23:39,385
you need to keep performing those processes? And providing that

1199
01:23:39,385 --> 01:23:42,585
service to the customer. And then lastly, none of that

1200
01:23:42,585 --> 01:23:45,105
works without the people, so. What is your people? How

1201
01:23:45,105 --> 01:23:46,865
many staff do you need? Do you have the right

1202
01:23:46,865 --> 01:23:49,065
amount of staff? Do you need to work on the

1203
01:23:49,065 --> 01:23:52,185
culture? And then lastly it comes down to money, which

1204
01:23:52,185 --> 01:23:54,745
is. The finances and the assets. If you don't have

1205
01:23:54,745 --> 01:23:57,065
the money. And if you don't. Have the appropriate asset

1206
01:23:57,065 --> 01:24:00,230
allocation. You can't. Run any of this business, so it's

1207
01:24:00,230 --> 01:24:02,990
making sure that you have a plan for that. Lastly,

1208
01:24:02,990 --> 01:24:05,910
you wrap all that together and that's the strategy document

1209
01:24:05,910 --> 01:24:08,430
that you would come up. With that would review all

1210
01:24:08,430 --> 01:24:14,133
of these things and build yourself a strategy. And that's

1211
01:24:14,133 --> 01:24:17,613
our presentation for this evening. Happy to take questions. So

1212
01:24:17,613 --> 01:24:19,973
what I'm going to do with this is any questions

1213
01:24:19,973 --> 01:24:23,741
we have. Of the consultant. We'll get those through, and

1214
01:24:23,741 --> 01:24:26,181
then we'll go to the discussion. I will take the

1215
01:24:26,181 --> 01:24:28,821
questions out of that part. So we'll do that piece

1216
01:24:28,821 --> 01:24:34,340
first and. Then. I have. Councilor, just put up your

1217
01:24:34,340 --> 01:24:44,216
hands, please. Anderson. Harrigan. Okay, so we

1218
01:24:44,216 --> 01:24:46,856
had three. So Councilor Anderson, you can start, followed by

1219
01:24:46,856 --> 01:24:50,896
councilor Scottie. Thank you, Mr. Mary and through you. Thank

1220
01:24:50,896 --> 01:24:52,976
you for this presentation. This is my second time seeing

1221
01:24:52,976 --> 01:24:55,136
it. I've had a little bit of time to go

1222
01:24:55,136 --> 01:25:02,133
over it a bit more. And. While I certainly appreciate.

1223
01:25:02,133 --> 01:25:06,536
I wish we didn't require. Your consultant a consultation on

1224
01:25:06,536 --> 01:25:09,456
this, but we are definitely in a critical state with

1225
01:25:09,456 --> 01:25:13,256
our PUC. So I appreciate you giving some suggestions. One

1226
01:25:13,256 --> 01:25:16,703
of the questions that I do have. Is the structure

1227
01:25:16,703 --> 01:25:19,023
of the governance of the PUC and the commission where

1228
01:25:19,023 --> 01:25:21,783
we sit and we're six counselors that are making these

1229
01:25:21,783 --> 01:25:23,623
major, major decisions, and this has gone on for a

1230
01:25:23,623 --> 01:25:26,712
very, very long time. And in no way, shape or

1231
01:25:26,712 --> 01:25:29,552
form an I an expert in underground butter infrastructure, and

1232
01:25:29,552 --> 01:25:31,192
I'm not sure that anybody else that sits on the

1233
01:25:31,192 --> 01:25:36,659
PUC is either with that disconnect. With the municipality in

1234
01:25:36,659 --> 01:25:40,699
the past. I mean, we obviously have a different dynamic

1235
01:25:40,699 --> 01:25:44,335
now and hopefully moving. Forward. Was that taken into account

1236
01:25:44,335 --> 01:25:46,655
as to how we got to this position that we're

1237
01:25:46,655 --> 01:25:50,788
in? Right now. Is there a suggestion that you would

1238
01:25:50,788 --> 01:25:52,988
have liked to bring forward, or was that not part

1239
01:25:52,988 --> 01:25:56,308
of the strategy of this task for you. Yeah, it

1240
01:25:56,308 --> 01:25:59,651
wasn't part of our strategy. We do make a few

1241
01:25:59,651 --> 01:26:04,091
comments in the more detailed report about coordination and collaboration

1242
01:26:04,091 --> 01:26:08,403
and governance. And I do think that there is something

1243
01:26:08,403 --> 01:26:12,721
ongoing right now, but that wasn't in our scope. Thank

1244
01:26:12,721 --> 01:26:16,732
you. I think that it is important moving forward that.

1245
01:26:18,346 --> 01:26:21,131
We do really look at. The structure of the commission

1246
01:26:21,131 --> 01:26:24,371
and how we move forward with that in a very

1247
01:26:24,371 --> 01:26:26,891
strategic way over these next ten years, like you're saying,

1248
01:26:26,891 --> 01:26:29,171
to make sure that the best decisions are being. Made.

1249
01:26:30,726 --> 01:26:32,766
And I know that there's been a motion, I believe,

1250
01:26:32,766 --> 01:26:35,806
that the mayor brought forward to look at this. Does

1251
01:26:35,806 --> 01:26:37,446
anyone know where we're at with that? And is that

1252
01:26:37,446 --> 01:26:41,365
going to be in the strategic plan in July. I

1253
01:26:41,365 --> 01:26:46,445
can answer that for you. So KPMG has been hired

1254
01:26:46,445 --> 01:26:54,202
for the governance review. That works. Just beginning now with

1255
01:26:54,202 --> 01:27:03,324
an expected. Delivery in October. Of this fall. So the

1256
01:27:03,324 --> 01:27:06,484
governance review of the POC. Thank you. So that won't

1257
01:27:06,484 --> 01:27:09,524
be included in the July like Master plan as far

1258
01:27:09,524 --> 01:27:15,538
as a restructuring. Of commission. That's a separate project that

1259
01:27:15,538 --> 01:27:19,178
was ongoing the same time that we had municipal viewing.

1260
01:27:19,178 --> 01:27:24,713
The master plan. It's sort of a parallel project that's

1261
01:27:24,713 --> 01:27:28,286
going on. Yeah. Thank you. We can say that it's

1262
01:27:28,286 --> 01:27:29,966
a peril project, but I think that it kind of

1263
01:27:29,966 --> 01:27:33,182
boils down to kind of a similarity, too. Of we're

1264
01:27:33,182 --> 01:27:34,982
still being asked as a commission and now as council,

1265
01:27:34,982 --> 01:27:37,982
to make this decision. And with it there being a

1266
01:27:37,982 --> 01:27:40,462
disconnect of the municipality, I know that I have reached

1267
01:27:40,462 --> 01:27:43,462
out not only to the PUC, but also to engineers

1268
01:27:43,462 --> 01:27:48,048
here through CK. It's important that we do include these

1269
01:27:48,048 --> 01:27:50,128
experts that we have, both at the administrative level. Of

1270
01:27:50,128 --> 01:27:52,568
with CK and also through the PUC in order for

1271
01:27:52,568 --> 01:27:55,568
us to make these really big decisions because this isn't

1272
01:27:55,568 --> 01:27:57,928
an easy decision for us to make and in no

1273
01:27:57,928 --> 01:28:00,048
way shape. Or form. Do I feel like I'm the

1274
01:28:00,048 --> 01:28:02,048
expert to sit around a table and say, this is

1275
01:28:02,048 --> 01:28:04,888
exactly what we should be doing with a $2 billion

1276
01:28:04,888 --> 01:28:10,448
def. Deficit in lifecycle and capital costs. So I feel

1277
01:28:10,448 --> 01:28:13,008
like, again, we're in a situation where we could be

1278
01:28:13,008 --> 01:28:17,040
potentially. Putting. The car before the horse. Where? You're asking

1279
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:19,640
us to make this decision now before we. Actually have

1280
01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:24,861
a master plan. Moving forward. So my second question is,

1281
01:28:24,861 --> 01:28:27,621
when we did the interviews, when your consulting company did

1282
01:28:27,621 --> 01:28:30,101
the interviews, who? Decided who was interviewed and why wasn't

1283
01:28:30,101 --> 01:28:35,533
every member of commission interviews? Through you, Mr. Chair or

1284
01:28:35,533 --> 01:28:38,293
Mr. Mayor. Sorry. We did put the offer out to

1285
01:28:38,293 --> 01:28:41,373
all of the commission members, and we only received two

1286
01:28:41,373 --> 01:28:46,293
responses back from the members, which was the chair and

1287
01:28:46,293 --> 01:28:49,947
councilor McDonald. So we did reach out to all of

1288
01:28:49,947 --> 01:28:53,627
the commission members to ask them for an interview. Did

1289
01:28:53,627 --> 01:28:55,067
that go out to the whole commission as a whole.

1290
01:28:56,404 --> 01:29:03,256
To all the commission members. I must. Have missed that

1291
01:29:03,256 --> 01:29:07,791
email. Yeah. And then I just have one more technical

1292
01:29:07,791 --> 01:29:13,312
question for you. When we discuss now potentially using Wallaceburg

1293
01:29:13,312 --> 01:29:16,592
as, are you saying, a raw waterline as an intake

1294
01:29:16,592 --> 01:29:23,711
or as a chat. From chat. It's really. Fairly high

1295
01:29:23,711 --> 01:29:26,551
level concept. There's a lot of work that would have

1296
01:29:26,551 --> 01:29:32,901
to be done to do that. But we know. This

1297
01:29:32,901 --> 01:29:36,781
provincial government is very strong on greenhouses, and there really

1298
01:29:36,781 --> 01:29:40,344
believes that there's a need for them. So there is

1299
01:29:40,344 --> 01:29:44,544
an opportunity there. If the plan was to make Wallaceburg

1300
01:29:44,544 --> 01:29:48,384
28 megalitres, to supply 14 or 16 of those mega

1301
01:29:48,384 --> 01:29:55,077
liters to the greenhouse. Industry. There is an opportunity, rather

1302
01:29:55,077 --> 01:29:57,877
than throw the infrastructure away that's there for Wallaceburg. If

1303
01:29:57,877 --> 01:30:00,757
we were to bring a pipe up to create a

1304
01:30:00,757 --> 01:30:03,677
raw water pumping station, it would be called Hamilton had

1305
01:30:03,677 --> 01:30:06,357
this for stelco when I was a director of water

1306
01:30:06,357 --> 01:30:10,117
in Hamilton. So you. Use raw water, and then the

1307
01:30:10,117 --> 01:30:14,019
cost of that would be borne. By the greenhouse, not

1308
01:30:14,019 --> 01:30:17,299
the residents. Sure. Yes, I certainly understand that concept. I

1309
01:30:17,299 --> 01:30:20,699
guess my question is. Do we consider where we're drawing

1310
01:30:20,699 --> 01:30:23,659
water from? Because I know right now Chatham is drawing

1311
01:30:23,659 --> 01:30:26,619
from Lake Erie. Is that correct? I believe Wallaceburg does

1312
01:30:26,619 --> 01:30:28,419
not draw from Lake era, I believe. They draw from

1313
01:30:28,419 --> 01:30:30,779
Lake St. Clair. So if we're cutting off, like, a

1314
01:30:30,779 --> 01:30:34,138
major separ. Separate water source. What were to happen if

1315
01:30:34,138 --> 01:30:36,818
we were to have a major contamination in Lake Erie?

1316
01:30:38,542 --> 01:30:42,300
Per se. So a couple of things. I'll respond to

1317
01:30:42,300 --> 01:30:45,100
that through you, Mr. Mayor. I think the likelihood of

1318
01:30:45,100 --> 01:30:47,460
a contamination is always higher in a river than it

1319
01:30:47,460 --> 01:30:50,980
is in a great lake there's. Many people that draw

1320
01:30:50,980 --> 01:30:57,822
from Lake Erie, so. It's a highly unlikely scenario. That

1321
01:30:57,822 --> 01:31:03,328
something would happen with that source. But the safe drinking

1322
01:31:03,328 --> 01:31:07,864
Water Act. Does take into account the treatment of that

1323
01:31:07,864 --> 01:31:10,144
water. So regardless of what your source is, you have

1324
01:31:10,144 --> 01:31:14,396
to treat it to certain parameters. If there was, let's

1325
01:31:14,396 --> 01:31:17,436
say, hydrocarbons or a spill in a river, that would.

1326
01:31:17,436 --> 01:31:21,734
Be much more. Disastrous because it's such a smaller body

1327
01:31:21,734 --> 01:31:24,854
of water, whereas in Lake Erie that would have it's

1328
01:31:24,854 --> 01:31:28,534
called the size of the receiving body could absorb that

1329
01:31:28,534 --> 01:31:31,774
with less impact. And the same thing with Lake Ontario

1330
01:31:31,774 --> 01:31:34,254
and all of the people that draw from Lake Ontario.

1331
01:31:34,254 --> 01:31:37,214
So from decreasing from two water sources to draw from

1332
01:31:37,214 --> 01:31:42,752
to just one. Source. It doesn't pose a significant risk

1333
01:31:42,752 --> 01:31:46,232
in my mind. No, you've got Hamilton has. One plant

1334
01:31:46,232 --> 01:31:50,952
with one pipe going out to Lake Ontario, 600,000, 700,000

1335
01:31:50,952 --> 01:31:55,340
people. Mississauga and Brampton have two plants for 2 million

1336
01:31:55,340 --> 01:31:59,950
people. Toronto has four plants. With. I don't know what

1337
01:31:59,950 --> 01:32:02,830
Toronto is now. Three and a half, 7 million, 6

1338
01:32:02,830 --> 01:32:07,062
million. People? Something like that. So. I would say it's

1339
01:32:07,062 --> 01:32:09,262
at higher risk to draw the water out of the

1340
01:32:09,262 --> 01:32:11,022
river than it is to draw it out of Lake

1341
01:32:11,022 --> 01:32:13,582
Erie. Thank you. I appreciate that. And that's just one

1342
01:32:13,582 --> 01:32:16,942
of those questions where ignorance is not bliss in sitting

1343
01:32:16,942 --> 01:32:19,822
in my position because my thought would be. Why wouldn't

1344
01:32:19,822 --> 01:32:23,580
we keep. Two drawing from two water sources as a

1345
01:32:23,580 --> 01:32:26,460
safer bet for clean drinking water as opposed to just

1346
01:32:26,460 --> 01:32:29,300
going to one major source, so I certainly appreciate you

1347
01:32:29,300 --> 01:32:33,186
clarifying that for me. Thanks. Thank you. Councilor Sakachi, followed

1348
01:32:33,186 --> 01:32:37,026
by councilor Harrigan. Thank you. Through mayor Cana a. Lot

1349
01:32:37,026 --> 01:32:39,666
of times we get these reports and they're really complicated

1350
01:32:39,666 --> 01:32:41,346
and really technical, and I think that you did a

1351
01:32:41,346 --> 01:32:44,466
really good job at putting it together in a method

1352
01:32:44,466 --> 01:32:47,786
that myself as a counselor who doesn't have any expertise

1353
01:32:47,786 --> 01:32:51,128
could understand. I actually went through this report several times

1354
01:32:51,128 --> 01:32:54,546
because I found. It very, I'm going to say alarming

1355
01:32:54,546 --> 01:32:56,906
in some aspects, but it was very well. Put together

1356
01:32:56,906 --> 01:32:59,306
so I could actually understand it. So in the report,

1357
01:33:00,837 --> 01:33:04,317
There's a lot of verbiage regards, lack of coordination, lacks

1358
01:33:04,317 --> 01:33:08,157
issues, challenges, and you actually mentioned the word scorecard. So

1359
01:33:08,157 --> 01:33:10,597
for somebody who doesn't have the technical knowledge as many

1360
01:33:10,597 --> 01:33:14,234
of us counselors. Don't. And don't sit on the actual

1361
01:33:14,234 --> 01:33:17,074
commission if this was an actual scorecard. Or let's say

1362
01:33:17,074 --> 01:33:19,514
a report card. Where are we at for like, a

1363
01:33:19,514 --> 01:33:22,794
grade? Are we talking like a DC or are we

1364
01:33:22,794 --> 01:33:23,994
talking. I know I'm kind of putting you. On a

1365
01:33:23,994 --> 01:33:25,914
spot, but I think it's important for us. Who doesn't

1366
01:33:25,914 --> 01:33:29,394
have the technical knowledge that we can see this very

1367
01:33:29,394 --> 01:33:33,093
baseline of what your thoughts are. Because in reading. This

1368
01:33:33,093 --> 01:33:35,253
detailed report, I got to admit, there's more challenges than

1369
01:33:35,253 --> 01:33:40,028
there is champions, right? Yeah. So it would be impossible

1370
01:33:40,028 --> 01:33:45,212
for me to give this an actual grade. But. This

1371
01:33:45,212 --> 01:33:49,411
is not an uncommon problem. Across ontario, canada, north america.

1372
01:33:50,724 --> 01:33:54,256
Coordination and communication. Is a huge issue in all large

1373
01:33:54,256 --> 01:33:59,416
organizations. Some municipalities are going towards utilities. The region appeal,

1374
01:33:59,416 --> 01:34:02,656
right? Now with the province, as you're aware, is looking

1375
01:34:02,656 --> 01:34:05,456
at should we go from a city department to a

1376
01:34:05,456 --> 01:34:10,782
utility. And others are going Peterborough, for instance. We just

1377
01:34:10,782 --> 01:34:12,862
finished a study for them a couple of years. Ago.

1378
01:34:12,862 --> 01:34:16,262
They're going from utility and they're bringing it all back

1379
01:34:16,262 --> 01:34:19,862
in house, so. There's no right answer to that. It

1380
01:34:19,862 --> 01:34:23,102
takes hard work to coordinate, and these are very complex

1381
01:34:23,102 --> 01:34:25,862
issues that I think staff are doing a great job

1382
01:34:25,862 --> 01:34:28,514
at right now. Al. Although we wanted to give you

1383
01:34:28,514 --> 01:34:31,274
the facts, that doesn't mean that staff aren't working on

1384
01:34:31,274 --> 01:34:34,314
it. And there's not solutions there. I think there are,

1385
01:34:34,314 --> 01:34:36,954
but they're different than they've been for the last 25

1386
01:34:36,954 --> 01:34:39,314
years. These are new things that are coming. At you

1387
01:34:39,314 --> 01:34:41,914
and staff are finding their way through, and I think

1388
01:34:41,914 --> 01:34:46,507
there is coordination and communication happening. Thank you. And. The

1389
01:34:46,507 --> 01:34:48,467
part in the report that you actually mentioned during the

1390
01:34:48,467 --> 01:34:51,267
presentation, as well as the water loss. I think it

1391
01:34:51,267 --> 01:34:54,627
was 15% to 55%. Correct. Is there, like, an industry

1392
01:34:54,627 --> 01:34:57,667
standard of what you would normally like to see, because

1393
01:34:57,667 --> 01:35:00,107
obviously it's high. I know that, but how high? Is

1394
01:35:00,107 --> 01:35:04,529
it? Compared to industry standard, yeah. I was the director

1395
01:35:04,529 --> 01:35:06,649
of water treatment for the city of Hamilton, and we

1396
01:35:06,649 --> 01:35:10,289
had a high water loss at about 15%, and we

1397
01:35:10,289 --> 01:35:14,329
spent $20 million and got that down to about 10%.

1398
01:35:14,329 --> 01:35:16,889
Newer municipalities would be in the eight to ten to

1399
01:35:16,889 --> 01:35:21,104
12% range that have a lot of pvc pipe. Water

1400
01:35:21,104 --> 01:35:25,184
loss isn't just leakage. Sometimes it's unaccounted for. Water. Which

1401
01:35:25,184 --> 01:35:31,311
is firefighting. It's a lot of operational water. Backwash water

1402
01:35:31,311 --> 01:35:34,351
for treatment plants. You've got a lot of flushing happening

1403
01:35:34,351 --> 01:35:36,151
out in the system because you've got a lot of

1404
01:35:36,151 --> 01:35:40,671
long dead ends and water decays, so the chlorine evaporates.

1405
01:35:40,671 --> 01:35:42,831
For lack of better term, it doesn't actually evaporate. But

1406
01:35:42,831 --> 01:35:45,791
it decays. And now the water isn't as safe to

1407
01:35:45,791 --> 01:35:48,511
drink, so you. Keep flushing the water to bring fresh

1408
01:35:48,511 --> 01:35:51,198
water in. So that's part of your problem. As well.

1409
01:35:51,198 --> 01:35:54,678
But that's where a study would define what that problem

1410
01:35:54,678 --> 01:35:57,438
is and how you could reduce that. Thank you. And

1411
01:35:57,438 --> 01:35:59,958
just a question to Mr. Dubin. Mr. Dubin, I know.

1412
01:35:59,958 --> 01:36:02,798
That we're having the governance that Councilor Anderson mentioned. But

1413
01:36:02,798 --> 01:36:06,358
is there a potential in that governance to be also,

1414
01:36:06,358 --> 01:36:08,438
I'm not going to use a word, but a mediator.

1415
01:36:08,438 --> 01:36:11,924
But somebody who can kind of align. Between the municipality

1416
01:36:11,924 --> 01:36:15,656
and. The PUC on a more regular basis, or is

1417
01:36:15,656 --> 01:36:18,216
that something now with this report? And what? The potential

1418
01:36:18,216 --> 01:36:20,656
governance change. Is that something? That's because I think that

1419
01:36:20,656 --> 01:36:22,696
the communication which you noted in here and you noted

1420
01:36:22,696 --> 01:36:25,736
in other municipalities that have a hard time. I think

1421
01:36:25,736 --> 01:36:28,456
that now that we have all this information, what's the

1422
01:36:28,456 --> 01:36:30,736
next steps? Besides the governance, what we can do to

1423
01:36:30,736 --> 01:36:33,536
approve the alignment to ensure that our growth plans here.

1424
01:36:34,380 --> 01:36:39,180
And our strategic directions here are compatible. And lastly, just

1425
01:36:39,180 --> 01:36:42,540
to you, Mr. Dubin, when we do our strategic. Growth

1426
01:36:42,540 --> 01:36:45,380
and our strategic things when we're first elected, does those

1427
01:36:45,380 --> 01:36:47,740
things get sent to the PUC so they understand what

1428
01:36:47,740 --> 01:36:49,660
we're looking to do from, like, a growth perspective and

1429
01:36:49,660 --> 01:36:53,060
the quadrants and, like, a planning perspective. For instance, what

1430
01:36:53,060 --> 01:36:56,540
Ryan brought to us to council are. Those things being

1431
01:36:56,540 --> 01:36:59,780
sent to the Puc? Because if those aren't happening, I'm.

1432
01:36:59,780 --> 01:37:03,221
Sure that they're more working on. Operational sides of things

1433
01:37:03,221 --> 01:37:05,821
instead of the actual potential growth, which I see is

1434
01:37:05,821 --> 01:37:09,119
kind of lacking in. This report, right? Thank you. Through

1435
01:37:09,119 --> 01:37:12,239
you, Marikana. So I'll try to answer the last question

1436
01:37:12,239 --> 01:37:16,449
first. I don't know if the study was actually sent

1437
01:37:16,449 --> 01:37:18,329
to the PUC, but I'm. Pretty sure the PUC is

1438
01:37:18,329 --> 01:37:21,729
familiar. Even when the PUC writes reports to council and

1439
01:37:21,729 --> 01:37:23,329
there have been a couple of reports to counsel. They

1440
01:37:23,329 --> 01:37:26,809
do make reference to the council's. Strategic priorities. I don't

1441
01:37:26,809 --> 01:37:30,249
remember how many members of council attended, obviously, those sessions

1442
01:37:30,249 --> 01:37:32,969
that we had, but we have overlap between the members

1443
01:37:32,969 --> 01:37:36,308
of council and members. Of the commission. So I expect

1444
01:37:36,308 --> 01:37:38,348
that members of the commission are all familiar. You see

1445
01:37:38,348 --> 01:37:42,356
it, right? In front of you every most Mondays. So

1446
01:37:42,356 --> 01:37:44,636
I think there's definitely as awareness of the council's strategic

1447
01:37:44,636 --> 01:37:50,337
priorities from a staff perspective. That'd probably a question. For

1448
01:37:50,337 --> 01:37:53,472
Mr. Galbraith. I think they're probably aware of them. Is

1449
01:37:53,472 --> 01:37:57,420
that a fair comment? Yeah, they are. Your second question

1450
01:37:57,420 --> 01:37:59,580
talked about sort of the outcome of the governance review.

1451
01:38:01,259 --> 01:38:02,539
I don't know what the governance review is going to

1452
01:38:02,539 --> 01:38:05,179
say. I think Mr. Harnham is right. You have to

1453
01:38:05,179 --> 01:38:08,659
look at what the municipality and the utility need at

1454
01:38:08,659 --> 01:38:11,579
that particular time that the review is being done in

1455
01:38:11,579 --> 01:38:15,249
some municipalities, they've gone the opposite way. In. Some, they've

1456
01:38:15,249 --> 01:38:18,249
embraced the approach that we currently have. Others, they've reversed

1457
01:38:18,249 --> 01:38:21,849
it. So it's really hard to tell until KPMG does

1458
01:38:21,849 --> 01:38:24,409
their work. It's hard to tell whether or not like

1459
01:38:24,409 --> 01:38:26,809
what the outcome of that will be. It'll come. To

1460
01:38:26,809 --> 01:38:29,649
you, and you'll get the opportunity to make a decision

1461
01:38:29,649 --> 01:38:32,249
on it. It may very well be. By the way,

1462
01:38:32,249 --> 01:38:34,489
I expect they will talk to a number of counselors

1463
01:38:34,489 --> 01:38:36,813
before they. Produce their report. So it may very well

1464
01:38:36,813 --> 01:38:40,573
be that whatever they recommend has some sort of a

1465
01:38:40,573 --> 01:38:42,053
I don't know if it'll be called a mediator, but

1466
01:38:42,053 --> 01:38:44,533
a process to follow is probably what they would recommend.

1467
01:38:45,772 --> 01:38:47,492
Is a process to follow to ensure that there is

1468
01:38:47,492 --> 01:38:52,647
alignment between. The commission and the municipality or. Whatever the

1469
01:38:52,647 --> 01:38:56,551
commission looks like after the governance review. Is completed and

1470
01:38:56,551 --> 01:38:59,591
then council endorses the approach, they may want to keep

1471
01:38:59,591 --> 01:39:01,751
it the same. They may want to endorse whatever the

1472
01:39:01,751 --> 01:39:04,631
consultant comes forward with, so I don't. Know what the

1473
01:39:04,631 --> 01:39:08,985
answer to that will be. I will say that. I

1474
01:39:08,985 --> 01:39:11,345
do think I'm looking forward to the governance review because

1475
01:39:11,345 --> 01:39:13,225
I think there is an opportunity for the level of

1476
01:39:13,225 --> 01:39:17,185
communication to be greater. Our communities change. We're now talking

1477
01:39:17,185 --> 01:39:21,336
about building new things. To accommodate the growth, which is

1478
01:39:21,336 --> 01:39:24,456
very different, as you saw from a report earlier today,

1479
01:39:24,456 --> 01:39:27,096
when your population is declining the way it has. We

1480
01:39:27,096 --> 01:39:29,776
weren't talking about master plans. We weren't. Talking about necessarily

1481
01:39:29,776 --> 01:39:33,096
building new things. This community was really trying to just

1482
01:39:33,096 --> 01:39:35,616
fix whatever we had. As best we could. Now all

1483
01:39:35,616 --> 01:39:38,856
of a sudden, we've got 15 years of that kind.

1484
01:39:38,856 --> 01:39:41,477
Of approach, and now. We're suddenly looking at a different

1485
01:39:41,477 --> 01:39:44,611
approach. You can't expect to just snap your fingers and

1486
01:39:44,611 --> 01:39:46,211
think that that's going to happen. There has to be.

1487
01:39:47,717 --> 01:39:50,477
A more, I would say, define thought out approach to

1488
01:39:50,477 --> 01:39:53,868
how do we plan for the next 15 years. Thank

1489
01:39:53,868 --> 01:39:57,399
you. I just wanted to say, whoever. The initiation of

1490
01:39:57,399 --> 01:39:59,519
this and all that, whether it be from the commission

1491
01:39:59,519 --> 01:40:03,420
or. From the POC general manager or I just think

1492
01:40:03,420 --> 01:40:05,980
that this is a great first step and I'm appreciative

1493
01:40:05,980 --> 01:40:08,919
of your work, and thank you for keeping it. To

1494
01:40:08,919 --> 01:40:10,519
a manner that we could all kind of. It was

1495
01:40:10,519 --> 01:40:14,927
palatable for. Thank you. Thank you. Councilor Harrigan, followed by

1496
01:40:14,927 --> 01:40:18,557
councilor Doyle. Thank you, McKinnon. So a lot of my

1497
01:40:18,557 --> 01:40:22,437
questions about the report and presentation have been asked and

1498
01:40:22,437 --> 01:40:25,837
answered. I do. Maybe just want to polish a little

1499
01:40:25,837 --> 01:40:29,435
bit around. The report noting around how the division of

1500
01:40:29,435 --> 01:40:33,075
responsibilities between Chatham, Kent and the PUC is complicated. Because

1501
01:40:33,075 --> 01:40:37,776
of that absence of shared governance framework. And then capital

1502
01:40:37,776 --> 01:40:42,312
coordination process, which is the other piece to it. In

1503
01:40:42,312 --> 01:40:45,497
the recommendations in the report. That I'm sure was a

1504
01:40:45,497 --> 01:40:50,901
collective writing, but that Mr. Quinton is authored here. It

1505
01:40:50,901 --> 01:40:53,941
notes about the creation of like a flow ck kind

1506
01:40:53,941 --> 01:40:56,701
of task force team to help to move projects forward.

1507
01:40:58,565 --> 01:41:01,685
Do we know? And as Michael, is that what you

1508
01:41:01,685 --> 01:41:04,967
were referring to in terms of the mediator? Who, ultimately

1509
01:41:04,967 --> 01:41:07,247
would that group be responsible to? Is that a PuC

1510
01:41:07,247 --> 01:41:09,007
group? Is that a municipal group or is that a

1511
01:41:09,007 --> 01:41:11,807
joint group? Because I feel like that's just a bunch

1512
01:41:11,807 --> 01:41:13,887
of people then operating to be like, well, it's not

1513
01:41:13,887 --> 01:41:15,407
clear which way we're going. To go because there's some

1514
01:41:15,407 --> 01:41:20,986
tension between. The wastewater plan and the growth plan. Well,

1515
01:41:20,986 --> 01:41:24,106
maybe I'll go to Mr. Quinn first. Actually, I'll go

1516
01:41:24,106 --> 01:41:28,731
first, and then. We'll go to Mr. Gwen. I don't

1517
01:41:28,731 --> 01:41:31,451
think we've sorted that out yet. I do agree that

1518
01:41:31,451 --> 01:41:33,851
there'd. Have to be. We want to be in a

1519
01:41:33,851 --> 01:41:38,302
position where. We ensure that that flow is taking place.

1520
01:41:38,302 --> 01:41:39,942
Now, I'm not so sure if it's. A person or

1521
01:41:39,942 --> 01:41:43,102
a mediator. I think it's the process itself. If the

1522
01:41:43,102 --> 01:41:46,222
process is designed in such a way that that automatically

1523
01:41:46,222 --> 01:41:50,440
happens, then we'll all be in a better place. So

1524
01:41:50,440 --> 01:41:53,314
I think that is one of the intents. Of the

1525
01:41:53,314 --> 01:41:56,431
group. That maybe Gord will speak to it a bit

1526
01:41:56,431 --> 01:41:59,471
more. One of the purposes of that is. To ensure

1527
01:41:59,471 --> 01:42:01,911
that there is a process so that you don't have

1528
01:42:01,911 --> 01:42:05,231
one group making a decision without considering the other, the

1529
01:42:05,231 --> 01:42:08,932
impact on the others and vice versa. And I'm not

1530
01:42:08,932 --> 01:42:11,212
sure that that happens now as well as it could.

1531
01:42:11,212 --> 01:42:13,652
It does happen. On occasion. And I would suggest that

1532
01:42:13,652 --> 01:42:17,212
in my short time here, I've seen improvement, but. I

1533
01:42:17,212 --> 01:42:20,321
still think we have work to do, especially since. We're

1534
01:42:20,321 --> 01:42:23,476
now going to be moving towards. Building. Big stuff. And

1535
01:42:23,476 --> 01:42:26,356
we haven't done that in a long time. Mr. Quinton,

1536
01:42:26,356 --> 01:42:27,596
I. Don't know if you want to add more to

1537
01:42:27,596 --> 01:42:31,476
it. Thank you. I'll just. Add the focus of that

1538
01:42:31,476 --> 01:42:36,060
special group. In the municipal side for engineering of having.

1539
01:42:37,385 --> 01:42:43,264
Them responsible for the new linear. Assets. Linear meaning under

1540
01:42:43,264 --> 01:42:47,224
roads going out, not the plants themselves having that distinction.

1541
01:42:48,542 --> 01:42:54,010
And having. A group that's able to coordinate that. With

1542
01:42:54,010 --> 01:42:57,010
the plans for the roads, with integras, for the hydro,

1543
01:42:57,010 --> 01:43:01,731
with Enbridge, for the natural gas lines. It's just an

1544
01:43:01,731 --> 01:43:09,928
enormous amount of work. To develop. A new area. And

1545
01:43:09,928 --> 01:43:14,857
to take that off the back of. The PUC administration

1546
01:43:14,857 --> 01:43:18,675
so they could focus on the plant work. That was

1547
01:43:18,675 --> 01:43:22,361
part of the strategy. But the charge for, of course,

1548
01:43:22,361 --> 01:43:25,321
the water and waste water would still be charged back

1549
01:43:25,321 --> 01:43:29,041
through rates. Or through development charges or through the puzz.

1550
01:43:33,594 --> 01:43:36,874
Great. My next question is, is in the recommendations. The

1551
01:43:36,874 --> 01:43:40,914
recommendation number one asks council to affirm. The green, right.

1552
01:43:40,914 --> 01:43:44,884
Things that were in the green category. By affirming what's

1553
01:43:44,884 --> 01:43:47,324
in the green category. Are we also saying that we're.

1554
01:43:47,324 --> 01:43:49,484
Agreeing that things that are yellow are yellow and things

1555
01:43:49,484 --> 01:43:51,124
that are red are red because I think there's a

1556
01:43:51,124 --> 01:43:53,884
bit of lack of clarity around that in the recommendation

1557
01:43:53,884 --> 01:43:57,604
report. I'm happy to affirm the green category, but I

1558
01:43:57,604 --> 01:44:01,284
think I have more questions, and even in the presentation,

1559
01:44:01,284 --> 01:44:04,353
it wasn't really clear. For example, like the. Wellsburg treatment

1560
01:44:04,353 --> 01:44:06,193
plan. Does it become a raw plant? Does it become

1561
01:44:06,193 --> 01:44:08,473
something else? Does it get closed entirely. And so I

1562
01:44:08,473 --> 01:44:12,113
just want to better understand what saying yes to recommendation

1563
01:44:12,113 --> 01:44:14,913
one means for what's not mentioned here, which is the

1564
01:44:14,913 --> 01:44:19,383
yellow and red projects. Through you, your worship. So I

1565
01:44:19,383 --> 01:44:21,983
think by affirming the green, you're just doing that you're

1566
01:44:21,983 --> 01:44:25,383
affirming the green. I agree with what you're saying. I

1567
01:44:25,383 --> 01:44:27,983
interpreted the yellow to be by virtue of the fact

1568
01:44:27,983 --> 01:44:31,838
that it's yellow, it still needs further study, so. You

1569
01:44:31,838 --> 01:44:33,438
can't affirm it one way or another. If that further

1570
01:44:33,438 --> 01:44:36,878
study hasn't. Occurred. But it's Mr. Harim's presentation, so he

1571
01:44:36,878 --> 01:44:38,878
should explain whether or not that was the way he

1572
01:44:38,878 --> 01:44:41,478
meant for it to be interpreted. Sure. Through you, Mr.

1573
01:44:41,478 --> 01:44:44,659
Mayor, I'm happy to do that, yes. I think it's

1574
01:44:44,659 --> 01:44:47,179
exactly that. The green is ready to go. There's no

1575
01:44:47,179 --> 01:44:49,539
reason. Why we shouldn't proceed with that. And there's actually

1576
01:44:49,539 --> 01:44:52,994
reasons why not to proceed. With that. Would be detrimental.

1577
01:44:54,376 --> 01:44:58,772
The yellow will most likely proceed, I think. You'll probably.

1578
01:44:59,295 --> 01:45:04,050
Bring a report back when those get closer. Or as

1579
01:45:04,050 --> 01:45:06,850
one of our recommendations in our report is to kind

1580
01:45:06,850 --> 01:45:09,570
of bundle all that together and have another sober look

1581
01:45:09,570 --> 01:45:12,250
at the red and the yellow. The yellow have to

1582
01:45:12,250 --> 01:45:16,682
go ahead. You need some more work on that before

1583
01:45:16,682 --> 01:45:20,334
we start putting tenders on the street. So they should

1584
01:45:20,334 --> 01:45:22,654
go. But you need to do a bit more work.

1585
01:45:24,141 --> 01:45:27,246
And then lastly. The red. We think that there are

1586
01:45:27,246 --> 01:45:31,006
different solutions there, and we've had many talks with the

1587
01:45:31,006 --> 01:45:34,972
Chatham Kent staff and the PUC staff. And there to

1588
01:45:34,972 --> 01:45:37,492
my understand, working on what does that look like in

1589
01:45:37,492 --> 01:45:42,129
the next year or two? With those. Red categories. Okay,

1590
01:45:42,129 --> 01:45:45,089
so then just about the red category. Sorry. Americana. I'll

1591
01:45:45,089 --> 01:45:47,489
echo, councilor. Anderson feeling like kind of a toddler in

1592
01:45:47,489 --> 01:45:50,129
the wastewater department area of expertise here and trying to

1593
01:45:50,129 --> 01:45:54,210
work through things. So is really the reason that Wallaceburg

1594
01:45:54,210 --> 01:45:56,570
has kind of shifted to be in the red category.

1595
01:45:56,570 --> 01:46:00,075
Simply because. Before, we were thinking about maintaining what we

1596
01:46:00,075 --> 01:46:03,075
have, and now we're looking towards growth is that compounded

1597
01:46:03,075 --> 01:46:06,395
with the greenhouse situation. Is that the reason for the

1598
01:46:06,395 --> 01:46:09,315
drastic shift? Because there is quite a big change between

1599
01:46:09,315 --> 01:46:14,195
those 2020, 1210, 15 years ago to what's being recommended.

1600
01:46:14,195 --> 01:46:17,315
Today. Right. So through you, Mr. Mayor, I would say

1601
01:46:17,315 --> 01:46:21,882
that the. 2012, 2016 and even. One of the last

1602
01:46:21,882 --> 01:46:26,710
EA's did suggest a pipe. And that is a more

1603
01:46:26,710 --> 01:46:30,990
affordable solution. I think one big thing that hasn't been

1604
01:46:30,990 --> 01:46:34,150
discussed here is operating cost as well, running a plant.

1605
01:46:34,150 --> 01:46:38,270
If you do the Wallaceburg and bring a pipe from

1606
01:46:38,270 --> 01:46:42,910
Chatham and you bring a pipe over to Ridgetown. Blenham,

1607
01:46:42,910 --> 01:46:46,634
you're. Down to three plants. You just finished telling you

1608
01:46:46,634 --> 01:46:51,098
Hamilton has one plant for the entire community. And the

1609
01:46:51,098 --> 01:46:55,218
regional Peel essentially has two plants for 2 million people.

1610
01:46:55,218 --> 01:46:58,098
So it's about operating costs as well. There's more chemicals,

1611
01:46:58,098 --> 01:47:03,027
there's more pumping, there's backwash. Water. There's all kinds of

1612
01:47:03,027 --> 01:47:07,089
things to run that plant, not to mention. The maintenance

1613
01:47:07,089 --> 01:47:09,049
cost of all of the new things that you might

1614
01:47:09,049 --> 01:47:12,672
put in there for that $200 million. So whether it's

1615
01:47:12,672 --> 01:47:15,952
growth or state of good repair, I think it's good

1616
01:47:15,952 --> 01:47:19,906
business. To look at that. You have to balance the

1617
01:47:19,906 --> 01:47:21,826
growth with the state of good repair. If you didn't

1618
01:47:21,826 --> 01:47:24,226
have that gross? Maybe. I don't know. Maybe you wouldn't

1619
01:47:24,226 --> 01:47:26,346
be having this conversation. You would just say, let's spend

1620
01:47:26,346 --> 01:47:29,066
the $200 million on that. But you have to balance

1621
01:47:29,066 --> 01:47:32,451
all of those things and. You've got an opportunity in

1622
01:47:32,451 --> 01:47:36,051
the southwest Chatham to build industrial commercial, which you really

1623
01:47:36,051 --> 01:47:40,976
need. As well as housing, which a community needs. And

1624
01:47:40,976 --> 01:47:43,056
then again, I'm assuming the answer is no. We're not

1625
01:47:43,056 --> 01:47:46,800
worried. But when I think of our community with, like,

1626
01:47:46,800 --> 01:47:50,560
kilometers and kilometers of space with no people compared to

1627
01:47:50,560 --> 01:47:53,800
like Hamilton, right, where there's tons of need in that

1628
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:57,790
area. There's not. A concern. Of having all of that

1629
01:47:57,790 --> 01:48:01,689
kilometer of pipe through kind of a rural system. And

1630
01:48:01,689 --> 01:48:04,649
the service risks for that? In my mind, no. And

1631
01:48:04,649 --> 01:48:08,816
Hamilton does have quite a rural community. As well. There's

1632
01:48:08,816 --> 01:48:15,519
downtown Hamill proper, but Flamborough, Carlyle. Ancaster. There's a very

1633
01:48:15,519 --> 01:48:19,319
rural community there as well, including the regional appeal in

1634
01:48:19,319 --> 01:48:22,039
the town of Caladon. So they have pipes running up

1635
01:48:22,039 --> 01:48:25,519
to those rural areas as opposed to having their own

1636
01:48:25,519 --> 01:48:27,919
plants. Hey, great. I would maybe just. And I don't

1637
01:48:27,919 --> 01:48:29,839
think this needs. To change in any of the recommendations,

1638
01:48:29,839 --> 01:48:32,439
but this would be a wonderful topic for council to

1639
01:48:32,439 --> 01:48:35,624
rece. Receive some optional education on. I think maybe once

1640
01:48:35,624 --> 01:48:40,290
the governance report comes back from KPMG. It's still not

1641
01:48:40,290 --> 01:48:42,810
clear to me who is ultimately in charge of saying

1642
01:48:42,810 --> 01:48:44,610
yes to these projects. Is it us around the council

1643
01:48:44,610 --> 01:48:47,490
table? Is it the PuC or on the PUC? Table.

1644
01:48:47,490 --> 01:48:49,970
We cover the budget and the capital and the policy

1645
01:48:49,970 --> 01:48:52,941
direction, but what's the POC? Doing. So I have a

1646
01:48:52,941 --> 01:48:55,101
lot of learning in that space to do and understanding.

1647
01:48:55,101 --> 01:48:57,461
So I would look forward and really appreciate some further

1648
01:48:57,461 --> 01:48:59,341
education. Thank you so much for your patience and answer

1649
01:48:59,341 --> 01:49:04,025
my question. Councilor Doyle, followed by councilor story. Thank you,

1650
01:49:04,025 --> 01:49:06,545
mayor. First again, I'd like to thank you for the

1651
01:49:06,545 --> 01:49:11,310
report. Very easy to read. And one of the big

1652
01:49:11,310 --> 01:49:14,470
things I did like about it is, like, with a

1653
01:49:14,470 --> 01:49:16,910
lot of these master plans we get. It doesn't really

1654
01:49:16,910 --> 01:49:19,150
put a cost factor into it. It just says, hey,

1655
01:49:19,150 --> 01:49:21,430
here's what would be your best case scenario, but we

1656
01:49:21,430 --> 01:49:25,660
can't afford the best case scenario all the time. So

1657
01:49:25,660 --> 01:49:28,775
I think when you broke it down and said, This

1658
01:49:28,775 --> 01:49:31,655
is your priorities. You did a very good job doing

1659
01:49:31,655 --> 01:49:37,586
that. So thank you for that. I do also agree

1660
01:49:37,586 --> 01:49:40,426
the greenhouse is. I have no problem with greenhouses. But

1661
01:49:40,426 --> 01:49:43,066
right now, our DC costs are not covering the operational

1662
01:49:43,066 --> 01:49:47,346
costs. So right now the general public is subsidizing some

1663
01:49:47,346 --> 01:49:49,226
of the cost for that. And when these are for

1664
01:49:49,226 --> 01:49:53,988
profit companies and not all of them. From my knowledge,

1665
01:49:53,988 --> 01:49:56,148
are keeping all their products in Canada, and some of

1666
01:49:56,148 --> 01:49:58,588
them are shipping it to the US. Because that's where

1667
01:49:58,588 --> 01:50:01,188
the profits are. Castra door. This is meant for questions.

1668
01:50:01,188 --> 01:50:03,308
And if you can have your time. So just if

1669
01:50:03,308 --> 01:50:10,824
you have questions. Thank you. Okay. So. I guess. This

1670
01:50:10,824 --> 01:50:13,073
is the third time. Then that it's been brought up.

1671
01:50:15,482 --> 01:50:20,288
For. The pipe to be ran from Chatham to Wallaceburg,

1672
01:50:20,288 --> 01:50:23,528
now in different ports. And those are experts. Doing these

1673
01:50:23,528 --> 01:50:26,208
reports. So that would make sense, but what would happen?

1674
01:50:27,907 --> 01:50:30,107
Say if we had a situation, say we did do

1675
01:50:30,107 --> 01:50:32,347
that, and then we had a situation in Chatham like

1676
01:50:32,347 --> 01:50:37,360
we did in wheelie, where there's a fire. Like a

1677
01:50:37,360 --> 01:50:39,680
catastrophic fire. What would happen at that point? I asked

1678
01:50:39,680 --> 01:50:43,146
that in Puc as well. Yeah. So through you, Mr.

1679
01:50:43,146 --> 01:50:46,186
Mayor, I think the question where you're going is would

1680
01:50:46,186 --> 01:50:50,746
having the Wallaceburg plant help us? Not really. Wallaceburg is

1681
01:50:50,746 --> 01:50:53,706
if it was 14 mld or. Megalitres per day. You

1682
01:50:53,706 --> 01:50:57,866
need 50 mega liters to serve Chadam. So if Chatham

1683
01:50:57,866 --> 01:51:04,262
had a major catastrophe. The water coming from Wallaceburg would

1684
01:51:04,262 --> 01:51:08,259
not solve that problem. So that's the first part of

1685
01:51:08,259 --> 01:51:12,779
the question. I think the second part is. Can you

1686
01:51:12,779 --> 01:51:21,511
afford belts and suspenders, right? It's that simple. Is. If

1687
01:51:21,511 --> 01:51:25,371
you feel as a community that. Gives you a safer

1688
01:51:25,371 --> 01:51:30,248
feeling. Then is it affordable? But I don't think it

1689
01:51:30,248 --> 01:51:36,114
is a huge risk, considering. Everywhere in the Gtah, all

1690
01:51:36,114 --> 01:51:40,791
the way around Oxford. Niagara region. All of these places

1691
01:51:40,791 --> 01:51:46,521
are faced with similar decisions. Okay. Thank you very much.

1692
01:51:48,616 --> 01:51:50,376
And I do like that you brought up going towards

1693
01:51:50,376 --> 01:51:53,216
the 401. I think we should have done. That two

1694
01:51:53,216 --> 01:51:56,336
to three decades ago. So it's nice that we're planning

1695
01:51:56,336 --> 01:51:57,536
that and. I said that that was in the report

1696
01:51:57,536 --> 01:52:00,296
as well, so thank you very much. Thank you, councilor.

1697
01:52:00,296 --> 01:52:03,656
Story, followed by councilor C. McGregor and councilor crew. Thank

1698
01:52:03,656 --> 01:52:07,842
you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Jim for that report. It

1699
01:52:07,842 --> 01:52:10,642
was very informative and appreciate you bringing that to. Bringing

1700
01:52:10,642 --> 01:52:15,016
that to us. Most of my questions have been asked,

1701
01:52:15,016 --> 01:52:17,216
but just to get a little bit of clarity on

1702
01:52:17,216 --> 01:52:19,336
in terms of your presentation, and I think we're still

1703
01:52:19,336 --> 01:52:23,740
getting a chance to ask a staff piece. Based on

1704
01:52:23,740 --> 01:52:27,700
your findings. If I understand your presentation and the report

1705
01:52:27,700 --> 01:52:30,860
correctly, it sounds like some of this disconnect is because.

1706
01:52:33,104 --> 01:52:37,304
Of some lack of communication or clear communication lines between

1707
01:52:37,304 --> 01:52:41,904
PUC and the municipality. So, as I'm thinking through this,

1708
01:52:41,904 --> 01:52:46,425
and I'm hearing the discussion from my fellow counselors. In

1709
01:52:46,425 --> 01:52:53,324
your experience? Our pucs normally separate. From municipalities, or is

1710
01:52:53,324 --> 01:52:56,444
it just really depend on the municipality and those government

1711
01:52:56,444 --> 01:53:00,206
structures? Because it really does feel like. We're missing a

1712
01:53:00,206 --> 01:53:03,780
piece here. And obviously this has happened for quite some

1713
01:53:03,780 --> 01:53:07,664
time, like the predates most of us on council. But

1714
01:53:07,664 --> 01:53:10,704
I'm sensing a theme here in the discussions we're having

1715
01:53:10,704 --> 01:53:15,185
and in the report. So in your experience. How does

1716
01:53:15,185 --> 01:53:18,762
that normally look? Yeah, through you, Mr. Mayor. I think

1717
01:53:18,762 --> 01:53:22,186
if it's a Puc, it is a separate. Entity. Or

1718
01:53:22,186 --> 01:53:25,106
it's a laws, which is another separate entity. There's a

1719
01:53:25,106 --> 01:53:28,666
Peterborough utilities commission. Which is a separate entity. Many municipalities

1720
01:53:28,666 --> 01:53:32,066
have it as a department of the corporation, but I

1721
01:53:32,066 --> 01:53:37,381
can tell you communication. It's not a fatal flaw. Here

1722
01:53:37,381 --> 01:53:40,101
you can have a large community, like Hamilton or Toronto.

1723
01:53:40,101 --> 01:53:42,701
That I worked in where the planning department doesn't talk

1724
01:53:42,701 --> 01:53:47,152
to the water department. Communication is hard, regardless of your

1725
01:53:47,152 --> 01:53:49,792
governance structure. What we were pointing out, it wasn't the

1726
01:53:49,792 --> 01:53:53,070
root of all of the problems. We were pointing out

1727
01:53:53,070 --> 01:53:56,950
that there seemed to be, with southwest southeast Wallaceburg, there

1728
01:53:56,950 --> 01:53:59,190
seemed to be a disconnect on what the priorities in

1729
01:53:59,190 --> 01:54:03,350
the communication was, so I wouldn't say this community has

1730
01:54:03,350 --> 01:54:07,870
a tragic problem compared to other communities. Communication is one

1731
01:54:07,870 --> 01:54:11,110
of the main issues in all of these complex problems

1732
01:54:11,110 --> 01:54:15,024
for sure. Yeah. I can appreciate that. I just think

1733
01:54:15,024 --> 01:54:21,830
sometimes when you're adding another level of organization, Perhaps. Those

1734
01:54:21,830 --> 01:54:26,430
issues can be made more challenging. Could you clarify the

1735
01:54:26,430 --> 01:54:28,670
Los plan you mentioned that needs to be done in

1736
01:54:28,670 --> 01:54:30,950
2025? Can you? Explain a little more about what that

1737
01:54:30,950 --> 01:54:36,787
is. Sure. Los stands for level of service. And as

1738
01:54:36,787 --> 01:54:41,027
part of your asset management plan for Reg. 588, July

1739
01:54:41,027 --> 01:54:46,147
1, 2025, you have to have a proposed levels of

1740
01:54:46,147 --> 01:54:48,987
service. You already have an asset management plan that deals

1741
01:54:48,987 --> 01:54:51,907
with your existing levels of service, and you need to

1742
01:54:51,907 --> 01:54:54,907
be in compliance with the regulations. You need to have

1743
01:54:54,907 --> 01:54:58,412
a proposed level. Levels of service, which means. What are

1744
01:54:58,412 --> 01:55:00,985
you and levels of services? Not to belabor it, but.

1745
01:55:02,474 --> 01:55:04,474
It's a difficult term. It's really about the life cycle

1746
01:55:04,474 --> 01:55:07,394
of the asset, not so much. Do we want clean

1747
01:55:07,394 --> 01:55:10,374
water or dirty water? That's really not a term level

1748
01:55:10,374 --> 01:55:13,494
of service. We're using it more as the life cycle

1749
01:55:13,494 --> 01:55:16,910
of the assets for the level of service. So that's

1750
01:55:16,910 --> 01:55:21,334
in a week. Is that what this is? I'm not

1751
01:55:21,334 --> 01:55:24,174
sure the status of that. There are many municipalities that

1752
01:55:24,174 --> 01:55:28,494
are struggling to meet that deadline. We're working with several

1753
01:55:28,494 --> 01:55:32,980
municipalities right now, helping them get to that deadline. But

1754
01:55:32,980 --> 01:55:35,740
I don't know where your municipality is with that. And

1755
01:55:35,740 --> 01:55:40,688
again, if they're not prepared for July 1, 2025. There

1756
01:55:40,688 --> 01:55:44,912
is no asset management police, there's no charges. But there

1757
01:55:44,912 --> 01:55:48,112
are many municipalities that are struggling to meet those deadlines.

1758
01:55:48,112 --> 01:55:50,552
So I'm not sure where you are with that in

1759
01:55:50,552 --> 01:55:55,578
your process. We cannot address that later. I think the

1760
01:55:55,578 --> 01:55:59,178
last couple of quick questions. State of good repair versus

1761
01:55:59,178 --> 01:56:03,112
growth. When you mention things like the, I think, councilor

1762
01:56:03,112 --> 01:56:08,030
psychology references. Well. The leak rate. In eight to 9%

1763
01:56:08,030 --> 01:56:11,390
you mentioned is reasonable. We are now at 55% in

1764
01:56:11,390 --> 01:56:14,750
some areas. In some areas, that seems like a fairly

1765
01:56:14,750 --> 01:56:19,822
dramatic difference. To me. Does it sound like we've got

1766
01:56:19,822 --> 01:56:23,499
to get our state of good repair? In certain places

1767
01:56:23,499 --> 01:56:25,739
before we could actually look at growth. Because our state

1768
01:56:25,739 --> 01:56:28,499
of good repair, if we're looking at 55% in some

1769
01:56:28,499 --> 01:56:33,520
areas. Is that what we should be prioritizing? I think

1770
01:56:33,520 --> 01:56:36,120
it's complex, and that's why we're recommending a study. Because

1771
01:56:36,120 --> 01:56:40,920
it's not necessarily just leaks. It could be operational flushing,

1772
01:56:40,920 --> 01:56:43,360
which is moving old water. And putting new water in.

1773
01:56:43,360 --> 01:56:45,360
You have to dispose of the old water goes into

1774
01:56:45,360 --> 01:56:48,200
the sewer, causes two problems. It also causes you to

1775
01:56:48,200 --> 01:56:49,640
have the water come back to the sewer, and you

1776
01:56:49,640 --> 01:56:53,062
have to retreat it again. But I think they go

1777
01:56:53,062 --> 01:56:55,582
hand in hand. I don't think it's. If this then

1778
01:56:55,582 --> 01:57:01,110
that. I think it's by finding water loss. You may

1779
01:57:01,110 --> 01:57:04,790
not have to build as big pipes or pumping stations

1780
01:57:04,790 --> 01:57:07,110
or whatever the case might be. So the state of

1781
01:57:07,110 --> 01:57:10,670
good repair and the growth should go hand in hand.

1782
01:57:10,670 --> 01:57:15,089
Okay. And we don't. Know. What those causes are yet

1783
01:57:15,089 --> 01:57:17,809
the next study will capture. You would have to do

1784
01:57:17,809 --> 01:57:20,529
that study for sure. And there's 27 different plates. Not

1785
01:57:20,529 --> 01:57:23,289
to bore you, but 27 different places you lose. Water,

1786
01:57:23,289 --> 01:57:26,009
and you need to assess where that water is going

1787
01:57:26,009 --> 01:57:30,382
through district metering in different areas. And then you would

1788
01:57:30,382 --> 01:57:35,222
be able to put resources towards either changing your processes,

1789
01:57:35,222 --> 01:57:39,902
upping chlorine doing something or stopping the leaks. Okay, and

1790
01:57:39,902 --> 01:57:42,542
last two questions. Thank you for all that you mentioned

1791
01:57:42,542 --> 01:57:47,142
that other large areas have one plant that services the

1792
01:57:47,142 --> 01:57:52,131
entire municipality. Areas. That have rural components or large populations

1793
01:57:52,131 --> 01:57:55,689
or both. Would that ever be something we would want

1794
01:57:55,689 --> 01:58:01,663
to consider? I think your Chatham plant is that plant,

1795
01:58:01,663 --> 01:58:07,930
right? It's central. It's going to. Now, if you went

1796
01:58:07,930 --> 01:58:11,090
ahead with the Wallaceburg pipe idea. It would send water

1797
01:58:11,090 --> 01:58:14,930
there. You would look the new southwest so you could

1798
01:58:14,930 --> 01:58:18,050
be down. To three plants from five by doing that.

1799
01:58:19,294 --> 01:58:25,040
That and the Ridgetown Blenham system. So sorry. I lost

1800
01:58:25,040 --> 01:58:26,840
the train of thought. And the question there. Oh, no,

1801
01:58:26,840 --> 01:58:33,356
I was just thinking. Just to reiterate. The consolidating plants

1802
01:58:33,356 --> 01:58:37,989
because you mentioned other municipalities just have the one. And

1803
01:58:37,989 --> 01:58:40,189
since we have multiple, maybe it doesn't make sense, but

1804
01:58:40,189 --> 01:58:44,820
I wonder if there are consolidation opportunities. You should constantly

1805
01:58:44,820 --> 01:58:46,860
look at that. I was the commissioner of public Works

1806
01:58:46,860 --> 01:58:52,030
for Halton Region and. Milton is a groundwater system. They're

1807
01:58:52,030 --> 01:58:54,525
constantly. The community wants to keep that system. It's a

1808
01:58:54,525 --> 01:58:58,325
very expensive, it's like Blenheim. And Ridgetown. Very expensive system

1809
01:58:58,325 --> 01:59:01,867
to maintain. We've been looking at. We were looking at

1810
01:59:01,867 --> 01:59:06,180
consolidating that to the lake. Ontario system. Because it's just

1811
01:59:06,180 --> 01:59:09,220
such a high cost and there's higher risk with smaller

1812
01:59:09,220 --> 01:59:12,580
plants. Right. Okay, well, thank you. And just the last

1813
01:59:12,580 --> 01:59:15,820
question, and this is maybe a question even for Meredith

1814
01:59:15,820 --> 01:59:21,261
or Judy, but. Your green slide with the green means

1815
01:59:21,261 --> 01:59:23,621
go. Would we be able to pull that back up

1816
01:59:23,621 --> 01:59:26,501
so. We have that for reference when we're discussing the

1817
01:59:26,501 --> 01:59:30,501
next phase. Just for reference. Those are all the items.

1818
01:59:31,884 --> 01:59:36,461
That you think we should do? Essentially immediately. Through you,

1819
01:59:36,461 --> 01:59:39,301
Mr. Mayor. There's a detailed list in the report, project

1820
01:59:39,301 --> 01:59:44,674
by project as well. But I'm not sure what the

1821
01:59:44,674 --> 01:59:49,587
staff recommendation was. But if it's that list. Then. It

1822
01:59:49,587 --> 01:59:53,672
is. It the same? Not sure through staff if it's

1823
01:59:53,672 --> 01:59:58,700
the same list. Just to. Because the first recommendation, it

1824
01:59:58,700 --> 02:00:03,872
says. We would be voting to go ahead with the

1825
02:00:03,872 --> 02:00:09,639
green. So that would be the 93.9. Hundred. And 93.7.

1826
02:00:09,639 --> 02:00:14,811
That's correct. Okay. And that is. You mentioned and you

1827
02:00:14,811 --> 02:00:18,971
use the example the 117 to the $150,000,000 example. From

1828
02:00:18,971 --> 02:00:22,411
just less than two years ago. Is this an inflationary

1829
02:00:22,411 --> 02:00:25,786
number? I would say the closer you get through you,

1830
02:00:25,786 --> 02:00:28,426
Mr. Mayor, the closer you get to design and construction,

1831
02:00:28,426 --> 02:00:31,426
the higher the price goes, as you're probably seen that

1832
02:00:31,426 --> 02:00:34,026
many times. And through my career. I've never seen a

1833
02:00:34,026 --> 02:00:40,154
project go down. So the more detail you get. When

1834
02:00:40,154 --> 02:00:43,954
you have pre design, you're at plus or -100% you

1835
02:00:43,954 --> 02:00:46,834
get the 30%. Design your plus or -50 you get

1836
02:00:46,834 --> 02:00:52,188
to 90% design. You should be plus or -10%. So

1837
02:00:52,188 --> 02:00:55,668
the staff will, when they design those projects and put

1838
02:00:55,668 --> 02:00:58,188
them out on the street, they will. Get actual costs

1839
02:00:58,188 --> 02:01:03,871
to you for recommendation on approval. Okay. In the next

1840
02:01:03,871 --> 02:01:07,386
zero to five years, we're looking at 32 million. But

1841
02:01:07,386 --> 02:01:11,509
that is a fairly high level estimate, correct? It's an

1842
02:01:11,509 --> 02:01:15,873
estimate from an Acom study. Another consulting firm. And we

1843
02:01:15,873 --> 02:01:19,233
listed them directly from their tables in the report. So

1844
02:01:19,233 --> 02:01:22,793
that's their estimates and. Already. That is three, two and

1845
02:01:22,793 --> 02:01:26,033
a half years old. Two years old. Those estimates. Okay,

1846
02:01:26,033 --> 02:01:28,713
so it would be more than that. Okay. That's a

1847
02:01:28,713 --> 02:01:31,673
lot of information. I appreciate you taking the time to

1848
02:01:31,673 --> 02:01:33,473
explain all of that. Thank you very much. Thank you.

1849
02:01:34,777 --> 02:01:39,359
Councilor C. McGregor, followed by councilor crew. Thank you. And

1850
02:01:39,359 --> 02:01:42,286
through the mayor. In your report. I just want to

1851
02:01:42,286 --> 02:01:47,379
go back to. The mention of a possible raw water,

1852
02:01:47,379 --> 02:01:52,052
Wallaceburg being turned into raw water for greenhouses. Would that

1853
02:01:52,052 --> 02:01:55,252
still not have to include pipeline towards dressed and or

1854
02:01:55,252 --> 02:01:59,709
towards these greenhouses and. How would we? Well, how would

1855
02:01:59,709 --> 02:02:05,289
we? At the price of running all those lines? Would

1856
02:02:05,289 --> 02:02:08,729
be similar to running line from Chatham to Wallaceburg. How

1857
02:02:08,729 --> 02:02:11,449
would we recoup that? From a greenhouse owner. I can

1858
02:02:11,449 --> 02:02:15,529
see recuperating the water costs, but how do we recuperate.

1859
02:02:17,250 --> 02:02:21,066
All the upkeep. And initially putting those water lines in,

1860
02:02:21,066 --> 02:02:24,066
would that not be the responsibility of the municipality to

1861
02:02:24,066 --> 02:02:26,266
do that to get it to that stage. Yeah, through

1862
02:02:26,266 --> 02:02:31,983
you, Mr. Mayor. If this project. Two things I would

1863
02:02:31,983 --> 02:02:37,621
recommend. If this project was just for greenhouses, then I

1864
02:02:37,621 --> 02:02:40,541
would say the greenhouses should pay 100%. Of the cost.

1865
02:02:40,541 --> 02:02:43,261
Now, they may say, we can't do that. We can't.

1866
02:02:43,261 --> 02:02:45,781
Afford to do that. So then, if this is a

1867
02:02:45,781 --> 02:02:49,181
priority for the province, the province may say, we think

1868
02:02:49,181 --> 02:02:52,501
this is a priority and they could offer funding towards

1869
02:02:52,501 --> 02:02:56,467
that. I think the maintenance. And operating of that system

1870
02:02:56,467 --> 02:02:58,907
could be a private system. There are examples of that

1871
02:02:58,907 --> 02:03:02,835
out there with the stellco example I gave. We put

1872
02:03:02,835 --> 02:03:07,195
the infrastructure in as Hamilton and Stelco operated it, but

1873
02:03:07,195 --> 02:03:10,035
I think the entire pipe the system, the treatment, the

1874
02:03:10,035 --> 02:03:13,475
pumping would be the responsibility of greenhouses. If that was

1875
02:03:13,475 --> 02:03:15,835
the case. But you may choose to operate it and

1876
02:03:15,835 --> 02:03:20,105
charge them a fee. I don't know. I think the

1877
02:03:20,105 --> 02:03:22,785
millions of dollars that are indicated in all these projects

1878
02:03:22,785 --> 02:03:28,305
would make it very unfeasible for greenhouses to consider having

1879
02:03:28,305 --> 02:03:33,221
to share that cost. But. The next question, and I

1880
02:03:33,221 --> 02:03:37,773
have few. You talked about the escalating cost of the

1881
02:03:37,773 --> 02:03:40,733
water treatment plant, and I think in our previous presentations,

1882
02:03:40,733 --> 02:03:45,159
the POC I had asked this question about. Are not

1883
02:03:45,159 --> 02:03:48,159
all the plants escalating in cost, and I think you

1884
02:03:48,159 --> 02:03:50,959
confirmed that it's. Not just Wallaceberg, it's all of the

1885
02:03:50,959 --> 02:03:56,517
plants. Escalating cost, so. If you're looking at communities such

1886
02:03:56,517 --> 02:04:00,597
as Hamilton or Toronto that only have one plant, why

1887
02:04:00,597 --> 02:04:03,797
would the recommendations not be to shut down all of

1888
02:04:03,797 --> 02:04:07,757
the other plants and only have one mega plant and

1889
02:04:07,757 --> 02:04:10,717
run new lines, which would be cost apparently a lot

1890
02:04:10,717 --> 02:04:13,277
less than operating and running all of these other plants.

1891
02:04:14,627 --> 02:04:17,107
Why would it not recommend, why would you not recommend

1892
02:04:17,107 --> 02:04:20,947
lines to run to all other communities of Chatham Ken

1893
02:04:20,947 --> 02:04:23,307
sure. Through you, Mr. Mayor. I think the key is.

1894
02:04:24,708 --> 02:04:25,948
You're at a fork in the road, you're at a

1895
02:04:25,948 --> 02:04:30,202
decision point with this. Plant. You may to the previous

1896
02:04:30,202 --> 02:04:33,282
counselor's thought process. You may do that when you're at

1897
02:04:33,282 --> 02:04:35,202
a fork in the road with those other plants as

1898
02:04:35,202 --> 02:04:40,367
well. But right now, you're at a decision point. To

1899
02:04:40,367 --> 02:04:45,559
spend roughly $200 million or to do something else. Which

1900
02:04:45,559 --> 02:04:49,879
is potentially $100 million cheaper than that and reduces ongoing

1901
02:04:49,879 --> 02:04:55,471
operating costs forever, as opposed to. So that's the impetus

1902
02:04:55,471 --> 02:04:57,631
for this is the decision point that has to be

1903
02:04:57,631 --> 02:05:00,951
made on Wallaceburg. And just one last question. Do you

1904
02:05:00,951 --> 02:05:03,951
know what the land mass of the Hamilton scenario is.

1905
02:05:05,437 --> 02:05:06,917
I don't duff the top. Do you know I worked

1906
02:05:06,917 --> 02:05:08,717
there for ten years? I should. Know what the land

1907
02:05:08,717 --> 02:05:11,797
mass of Chatham count is? I don't know. It is,

1908
02:05:11,797 --> 02:05:18,874
I believe. Somewhere between 2000. Square kilometers. Which. Is probably

1909
02:05:18,874 --> 02:05:23,062
why we have multiple. Treatment plans. Okay. Thank you. Thank

1910
02:05:23,062 --> 02:05:29,739
you. Councilor crew. Thank you, Mayor Cana. Thanks, Jim, for

1911
02:05:29,739 --> 02:05:33,391
the presentation. And I'm going to be very brief. I

1912
02:05:33,391 --> 02:05:35,831
was going to ask about the greenhouses. So that's been

1913
02:05:35,831 --> 02:05:38,671
answered. Thank you. But I just want to just historically.

1914
02:05:40,492 --> 02:05:44,612
And I agree. We land on these committees and commissions

1915
02:05:44,612 --> 02:05:50,031
and we learn as we go. Every single one of

1916
02:05:50,031 --> 02:05:52,391
us. As we got elected, we were picked to go

1917
02:05:52,391 --> 02:05:57,709
on committees. The committees. And commissions before us. They did

1918
02:05:57,709 --> 02:06:00,869
the best they could. They were faced with challenging times,

1919
02:06:00,869 --> 02:06:03,749
and a lot of times it was band aiding things?

1920
02:06:05,144 --> 02:06:09,784
They were handed this large community in 1999 and called

1921
02:06:09,784 --> 02:06:12,184
it Chatham Kent. Here we are. And now. We have

1922
02:06:12,184 --> 02:06:15,544
all of these issues that were handed to us. So

1923
02:06:15,544 --> 02:06:19,116
I just want to say that. The work that was

1924
02:06:19,116 --> 02:06:21,436
done was no different than what we do sitting around

1925
02:06:21,436 --> 02:06:24,548
this table. We do the best we can. And we

1926
02:06:24,548 --> 02:06:28,268
learn as we go and we try to educate ourselves,

1927
02:06:28,268 --> 02:06:32,108
and staff really tries hard to educate some people that

1928
02:06:32,108 --> 02:06:36,305
sometimes. We don't know. A lot about the subject matters,

1929
02:06:36,305 --> 02:06:39,918
and we try really hard. But I'd like to say

1930
02:06:39,918 --> 02:06:42,918
that we've started to write the ship a bit. With

1931
02:06:42,918 --> 02:06:45,718
the development charges and things like that that we've been

1932
02:06:45,718 --> 02:06:50,022
working on. And these master plans. Is there a question?

1933
02:06:50,022 --> 02:06:53,622
No. I did have a question. Yeah, you will have

1934
02:06:53,622 --> 02:06:56,502
time. That's all. I don't. Have anything else to say,

1935
02:06:56,502 --> 02:07:04,594
I'm done. With that. Any other questions? Of the consultant.

1936
02:07:04,594 --> 02:07:07,714
Oh, sorry. Councilor Wright. Thank you, Mayor Cana through you.

1937
02:07:10,184 --> 02:07:12,184
I guess they call it the Erie beach water treatment.

1938
02:07:13,822 --> 02:07:16,022
Does that do? Chattom now in Blenham or what's that

1939
02:07:16,022 --> 02:07:21,888
treatments out there? Yes. Did you want to answer that?

1940
02:07:30,488 --> 02:07:34,528
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Darren Gullis, general manager Chad Pucant

1941
02:07:34,528 --> 02:07:40,822
water treatment plant. It comes up as far as. From

1942
02:07:40,822 --> 02:07:44,702
Blenham area over underneath the 401 and did Doyle line.

1943
02:07:44,702 --> 02:07:46,582
That's as far as ease it goes, but if we

1944
02:07:46,582 --> 02:07:49,422
ever get into situations in Chatham, we're going to. Take

1945
02:07:49,422 --> 02:07:52,622
the water tower down for service whatnot. We actually bring

1946
02:07:52,622 --> 02:07:55,902
chat and water. As far as Park Ave. And then

1947
02:07:55,902 --> 02:08:00,790
obviously, right now, Self water treatment plan is assisting the

1948
02:08:00,790 --> 02:08:04,433
water in Tilbury Wheatley as we speak. So that's usually

1949
02:08:04,433 --> 02:08:07,713
where the water goes from. South african water treatment plant.

1950
02:08:07,713 --> 02:08:13,443
It also services the Bloomfield Industrial Park. Originally, wasn't it

1951
02:08:13,443 --> 02:08:17,363
designed to take to Ridgetown, too? Like that water treatment

1952
02:08:17,363 --> 02:08:21,683
plan was? To go to Ridgetown originally. No, it was

1953
02:08:21,683 --> 02:08:27,821
not. Okay. All right. Thank you. See no other questions

1954
02:08:27,821 --> 02:08:30,181
to consultant. Now we will get the motion on the

1955
02:08:30,181 --> 02:08:32,581
floor. Councilor sey. McGregor and councilor Anderson. Can I get

1956
02:08:32,581 --> 02:08:36,865
you. It's on the floor for discussion. Please. Yes, I'll

1957
02:08:36,865 --> 02:08:40,451
put it on the floor. And I will second. Okay.

1958
02:08:40,451 --> 02:08:45,147
Councilor Sima. Gregor, go ahead. Thank you. Before we get

1959
02:08:45,147 --> 02:08:49,161
to the recommendations. I would like to, at this point,

1960
02:08:49,161 --> 02:08:51,761
make a motion that the recommendations be referred back to

1961
02:08:51,761 --> 02:08:54,961
the PUC and the administration of Chatham, Kent until the

1962
02:08:54,961 --> 02:08:58,881
following has been provided to council and I believe it

1963
02:08:58,881 --> 02:09:02,074
might be coming up here. Number one, the creation of

1964
02:09:02,074 --> 02:09:05,874
the joint POC and municipal group with the purpose of

1965
02:09:05,874 --> 02:09:09,394
completing a joint servicing strategy that will include the new

1966
02:09:09,394 --> 02:09:13,474
growth management policies and the recommendations of two, three, and

1967
02:09:13,474 --> 02:09:17,612
four in the current recommendations in the report. Two the

1968
02:09:17,612 --> 02:09:22,052
new growth management policies be adopted into the official plan

1969
02:09:22,052 --> 02:09:24,812
as required by the obligations under the Planning act and

1970
02:09:24,812 --> 02:09:29,332
the provincial Planning statement 2024, setting the direction about growth

1971
02:09:29,332 --> 02:09:33,172
options and planning of the phasing of residential and nonresidential

1972
02:09:33,172 --> 02:09:37,092
development in the primary and secondary urban centers and three.

1973
02:09:37,686 --> 02:09:42,046
Engineering design that includes estimated capital costing after the completion

1974
02:09:42,046 --> 02:09:44,846
of the service plan for the southwest quadrant. Of Chatham,

1975
02:09:44,846 --> 02:09:48,206
Kent, which is currently in draft form. And for information

1976
02:09:48,206 --> 02:09:52,566
in a combined PUC municipal report that includes engagement and

1977
02:09:52,566 --> 02:09:57,086
consultation of the community of Wallsburg and affected surrounded areas.

1978
02:09:57,086 --> 02:10:00,958
The consult. Consultation should include the advantages and disadvantages of

1979
02:10:00,958 --> 02:10:04,118
no longer following the recommendations of the earlier studies. And

1980
02:10:04,118 --> 02:10:12,781
EA's conducted. Between 2012 and 223. And the. Rehabilitational replacement

1981
02:10:12,781 --> 02:10:19,663
of the water. Wallsproduct intake and the water Wallaceburg water

1982
02:10:19,663 --> 02:10:25,166
treatment plant. And if I can get a seconder on

1983
02:10:25,166 --> 02:10:32,616
that, I will explain my thoughts on this. Council McDonald.

1984
02:10:32,616 --> 02:10:35,376
Sorry, Councilor Anderson, I ask you to second the original,

1985
02:10:35,376 --> 02:10:38,336
so if you want. Yeah. I'm happy to put it

1986
02:10:38,336 --> 02:10:42,028
on for I just have. A question, a couple of

1987
02:10:42,028 --> 02:10:51,945
questions. Okay. So. My recommendations. One through four of

1988
02:10:51,945 --> 02:10:55,545
the following. The first recommendation should be put on hold

1989
02:10:55,545 --> 02:11:01,802
until further information. Can be provided to council. The second

1990
02:11:01,802 --> 02:11:05,482
recommendation that I made in there is referring to the

1991
02:11:05,482 --> 02:11:08,882
report provided to us last week. By Ryan jocks at

1992
02:11:08,882 --> 02:11:11,722
our last meeting that addressed the urban boundaries in our

1993
02:11:11,722 --> 02:11:15,282
communities. The report said it had completed the second of

1994
02:11:15,282 --> 02:11:20,242
four phases, so this is still incomplete. The third recommendation

1995
02:11:20,242 --> 02:11:23,849
addresses the need for. Information that we did not receive

1996
02:11:23,849 --> 02:11:27,649
before setting our priorities for this term of council and

1997
02:11:27,649 --> 02:11:32,089
the fourth addresses the multiple EA's and community engagement sessions

1998
02:11:32,089 --> 02:11:38,066
that. Were being asked to now ignore the fifth recommendation

1999
02:11:38,066 --> 02:11:40,306
in the report. It appears to me that Chatham count

2000
02:11:40,306 --> 02:11:44,346
administration think we need an oversight committee of the already

2001
02:11:44,346 --> 02:11:48,226
elected officials that currently represent the council. At the POC

2002
02:11:48,226 --> 02:11:56,483
and personally. As chair. I find this kind of unusual.

2003
02:12:03,504 --> 02:12:06,344
And as for, sorry, the 6th recommendation. I had to

2004
02:12:06,344 --> 02:12:09,110
write this in because I missed that. When I wrote

2005
02:12:09,110 --> 02:12:13,070
my notes. I see no reason that this can't continue

2006
02:12:13,070 --> 02:12:16,590
without the approved motion that is required. But I am

2007
02:12:16,590 --> 02:12:19,110
quite happy to have that act added in as a

2008
02:12:19,110 --> 02:12:24,575
recommendation. Should another counselor wish to see? The recommendation regarding

2009
02:12:24,575 --> 02:12:30,416
greenhouses added back in. In tonight's report. Provided to us

2010
02:12:30,416 --> 02:12:34,936
by our chief financial officer, Gord Quentin. Noted the municipal

2011
02:12:34,936 --> 02:12:39,056
vu consulting was hired. To review and prioritize the municipal

2012
02:12:39,056 --> 02:12:44,753
water and wastewater projects. This report found misaligned growth priorities,

2013
02:12:44,753 --> 02:12:50,753
coordinating coordination gaps, conflicting priorities, glaring infrastructure needs, and operational

2014
02:12:50,753 --> 02:12:54,478
risks. I'm sure many of you noted Mr. Quentin was

2015
02:12:54,478 --> 02:13:00,059
quoted in the media as saying, That the review also

2016
02:13:00,059 --> 02:13:03,539
found that Chad and Kent's municipal administration and the public

2017
02:13:03,539 --> 02:13:08,819
utilities commission have often operated independently and lack an undefined

2018
02:13:08,819 --> 02:13:13,379
strategy for planning and delivering services like land use. Engineering

2019
02:13:13,379 --> 02:13:17,139
and infrastructure investment. He's quoted as saying that the division

2020
02:13:17,139 --> 02:13:24,329
has resulted in efficiencies. Missed collaboration opportunities. And inconsistent communication.

2021
02:13:24,329 --> 02:13:27,929
Adding the future growth of Chatham, Kent and its finances

2022
02:13:27,929 --> 02:13:32,329
require a unified plan. Moving forward to align priorities and

2023
02:13:32,329 --> 02:13:38,211
expectations. The report presented to us tonight by municipal Vu

2024
02:13:38,211 --> 02:13:42,571
Consulting says that it's discovered the water. And wastewater master

2025
02:13:42,571 --> 02:13:45,571
plan does not account for the southwest quadrant of Chatham.

2026
02:13:47,701 --> 02:13:51,261
A strategic growth area identified by council and that this

2027
02:13:51,261 --> 02:13:55,021
was a strategic area identified by council. The report says.

2028
02:13:56,499 --> 02:13:59,699
Its omission limits the municipality's ability to support development and

2029
02:13:59,699 --> 02:14:04,539
meet housing and employment. Targets. The draft Southwest community servicing

2030
02:14:04,539 --> 02:14:09,179
study outlines over 780,000,000 in infrastructure needs for phased growth,

2031
02:14:09,179 --> 02:14:14,339
according to the report, in addition to another 975,000,000 already

2032
02:14:14,339 --> 02:14:18,319
identified in the master plan. The report also identifies the

2033
02:14:18,319 --> 02:14:22,919
lack of integration between the PUC and municipal administration with

2034
02:14:22,919 --> 02:14:27,788
no. Shared capital prioritization or unified servicing strategies due to

2035
02:14:27,788 --> 02:14:31,748
the aging infrastructure and high water loss. And incomplete sewer

2036
02:14:31,748 --> 02:14:36,028
separation plans. For these reasons alone, these recommendations need to

2037
02:14:36,028 --> 02:14:41,548
be referred back to the POC and CK administration. The

2038
02:14:41,548 --> 02:14:44,708
PUC commissioners received this information less than a week ago.

2039
02:14:46,295 --> 02:14:49,655
And it was only provided to council on Wednesday, one

2040
02:14:49,655 --> 02:14:52,935
day prior to going to the public as counselors. We

2041
02:14:52,935 --> 02:14:57,415
make pretty big decisions based on reports provided to us.

2042
02:14:57,415 --> 02:15:01,135
We trust that the information we see is accurate. The

2043
02:15:01,135 --> 02:15:07,798
presentation and the report both. State the southwest west quadrant

2044
02:15:07,798 --> 02:15:11,798
as being one of the of councilor's majors priorities and

2045
02:15:11,798 --> 02:15:14,678
looking back at, like, how do we trust the decision

2046
02:15:14,678 --> 02:15:17,398
that we made making this a priority when we had

2047
02:15:17,398 --> 02:15:21,172
not received all the correct information. I think I've said

2048
02:15:21,172 --> 02:15:27,358
enough. But I'll conclude with. A few remarks at the

2049
02:15:27,358 --> 02:15:32,803
end. If I can. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just a

2050
02:15:32,803 --> 02:15:35,683
reminder to all of council you had the opportunity to

2051
02:15:35,683 --> 02:15:38,763
ask consultant. Questions. Now that there's a motion to refer

2052
02:15:38,763 --> 02:15:41,803
on the floor, it strictly comments to that. Should that

2053
02:15:41,803 --> 02:15:44,243
pass, we'll move on. If it fails, we'll go back

2054
02:15:44,243 --> 02:15:46,643
to the original motion and have a conversation with regards

2055
02:15:46,643 --> 02:15:54,952
to that. Hey. Questions regarding the referral. Okay, here we

2056
02:15:54,952 --> 02:16:03,634
go. Keep your hands up. Just sorry. Councilor Anderson will

2057
02:16:03,634 --> 02:16:12,871
be first. And then sakachi. Harrigan. All doyles.

2058
02:16:15,243 --> 02:16:18,817
Okay. Go ahead, councilor Anderson thank you. Mr. Mary mine

2059
02:16:18,817 --> 02:16:20,257
is very, very brief. I know that we have an

2060
02:16:20,257 --> 02:16:22,737
obligation to have a master plan by July. I just

2061
02:16:22,737 --> 02:16:25,377
wanted to make sure that we are not missing something

2062
02:16:25,377 --> 02:16:28,137
here by going ahead with this motion or is this

2063
02:16:28,137 --> 02:16:29,897
going to stop us? Progressing with certain things that we

2064
02:16:29,897 --> 02:16:33,702
need to do. And I'm not sure who would be

2065
02:16:33,702 --> 02:16:39,766
the best person. Gord, thanks. Thank you. The part that

2066
02:16:39,766 --> 02:16:42,446
I referred to, the asset management plan requirements, is actually

2067
02:16:42,446 --> 02:16:47,480
on the agenda later tonight. And sean. So this would

2068
02:16:47,480 --> 02:16:51,574
be fine, or. This essentially, would this just take us

2069
02:16:51,574 --> 02:16:54,094
back to status quo? I feel like we do need

2070
02:16:54,094 --> 02:16:55,734
to move forward with the PUC, we do need to

2071
02:16:55,734 --> 02:16:59,886
make significant changes. I definitely agree with that. We're definitely

2072
02:16:59,886 --> 02:17:02,126
in a critical state where critical decisions need to be

2073
02:17:02,126 --> 02:17:06,451
made. I guess, in a sense. The feeling that we

2074
02:17:06,451 --> 02:17:08,211
have a lot of us as counselors, I think, and

2075
02:17:08,211 --> 02:17:09,811
as commission, I may speak for all of us. I

2076
02:17:09,811 --> 02:17:11,651
may not, but I think I probably sued for the

2077
02:17:11,651 --> 02:17:14,699
majority. Of us when I say. Making really major decisions

2078
02:17:14,699 --> 02:17:18,402
like this. We're kind of going on. The expertise of

2079
02:17:18,402 --> 02:17:21,202
others, which is fine, so long as we've had our

2080
02:17:21,202 --> 02:17:25,065
own time to process this. And if anything, some of

2081
02:17:25,065 --> 02:17:27,265
us maybe feel like this is potentially a little bit

2082
02:17:27,265 --> 02:17:29,425
rushed to take. In all of this information to make

2083
02:17:29,425 --> 02:17:32,625
this drastic change. However, I'm not saying this isn't something

2084
02:17:32,625 --> 02:17:34,505
that needs to be done. I guess I just want.

2085
02:17:36,210 --> 02:17:41,120
The solidification that this is definitely. This request originally is

2086
02:17:41,120 --> 02:17:45,994
supported by our administration and by the PC. So if

2087
02:17:45,994 --> 02:17:54,341
I could comment. On the deferral. We, as the administration,

2088
02:17:54,341 --> 02:18:01,688
do have concerns. Cost that are escalating very quickly.

2089
02:18:04,194 --> 02:18:07,714
We moved. Even avian Wallsburg. We've moved from talking about

2090
02:18:07,714 --> 02:18:10,914
a $40 million plant a decade ago to a $200

2091
02:18:10,914 --> 02:18:17,567
million plant. There are significant. This may cause significant delays.

2092
02:18:17,567 --> 02:18:21,711
If you're asking for another month. To report back at

2093
02:18:21,711 --> 02:18:24,991
the July, July or August council meeting with more information

2094
02:18:24,991 --> 02:18:29,392
around something. That would be a couple of month deferral.

2095
02:18:29,392 --> 02:18:33,832
A couple of these items and perhaps Bruce should comment

2096
02:18:33,832 --> 02:18:38,095
about the fisher plan and Edward about. The self servicing

2097
02:18:38,095 --> 02:18:46,065
study. But both are in the works. But I wouldn't

2098
02:18:46,065 --> 02:18:51,060
want to be delaying. Any. Significant amount of time, or

2099
02:18:51,060 --> 02:18:55,120
else it's just going to mean that you're adding. To

2100
02:18:55,120 --> 02:18:59,560
deed even larger rate increases at the puz in the

2101
02:18:59,560 --> 02:19:01,680
future to pay for list. Remember this is all paid

2102
02:19:01,680 --> 02:19:08,270
for by the water wastewater bill. Maybe Bruce. Thank you.

2103
02:19:08,270 --> 02:19:14,557
And I guess. I'll just end my comments with I

2104
02:19:14,557 --> 02:19:18,397
feel like we oftentimes have a difficult time making really

2105
02:19:18,397 --> 02:19:22,077
drastic decisions around this table, especially when it's maybe going

2106
02:19:22,077 --> 02:19:26,304
in a different direction. Than we had originally planned. And

2107
02:19:26,304 --> 02:19:29,264
unfortunately, we are in that space where we do need

2108
02:19:29,264 --> 02:19:32,064
to make some sort of drastic decision, or else we

2109
02:19:32,064 --> 02:19:34,264
just continue going in this same place and we can't.

2110
02:19:34,264 --> 02:19:38,264
Afford to keep going in this same place. Councilor Scotty,

2111
02:19:38,264 --> 02:19:42,184
followed by councilor Harrigan. Thank you, Mary Kenneth. And through

2112
02:19:42,184 --> 02:19:45,744
you I guess. Councilor Anderson just asked some of my

2113
02:19:45,744 --> 02:19:47,584
questions, but I just need a little bit more. Clarity.

2114
02:19:50,106 --> 02:19:53,906
So maybe Edward or Darren. How long is this? How

2115
02:19:53,906 --> 02:19:57,826
long are we talking for this potential, this? Recommendation in

2116
02:19:57,826 --> 02:20:01,346
this motion, and just maybe to Bruce, too. Is this

2117
02:20:01,346 --> 02:20:04,266
going to affect any of our growth aspects or anything

2118
02:20:04,266 --> 02:20:07,371
like that. I just don't know what the. I understand

2119
02:20:07,371 --> 02:20:10,291
that number four. It's important, but. Just from a timeline

2120
02:20:10,291 --> 02:20:17,091
perspective. Of all this stuff. Thank you, worship. Bruce McAuster,

2121
02:20:17,091 --> 02:20:23,246
general manager, development services. Thanks, council, for your question. So

2122
02:20:23,246 --> 02:20:25,886
I'll jump in number two and I'll probably. Defer to

2123
02:20:25,886 --> 02:20:28,806
Edward on the other pieces here for the next. And

2124
02:20:28,806 --> 02:20:33,730
Darren. But Ryan Jocks was mentioned earlier. Ryan's over here

2125
02:20:33,730 --> 02:20:36,650
tonight as well, from our director. Of planning. He did

2126
02:20:36,650 --> 02:20:42,353
have a presentation a couple of weeks ago. On where

2127
02:20:42,353 --> 02:20:46,633
we're at with the growth management and growth options review

2128
02:20:46,633 --> 02:20:49,993
in the proposed schedule. Essentially, we're hoping to be in

2129
02:20:49,993 --> 02:20:52,233
front of council with his options by the end of

2130
02:20:52,233 --> 02:20:56,246
this year. If we defer this, it's probably going to

2131
02:20:56,246 --> 02:20:59,326
make that more difficult because one of the fundamental pieces.

2132
02:21:01,238 --> 02:21:05,852
In evaluating where you want to grow. It's. Or expand

2133
02:21:05,852 --> 02:21:09,212
a settlement area boundary is, can it be efficiently serviced

2134
02:21:09,212 --> 02:21:11,835
with municipal services? And I don't know we can answer

2135
02:21:11,835 --> 02:21:14,195
those questions till we get to this next step. To

2136
02:21:14,195 --> 02:21:15,795
come back to council and say, here's where we should

2137
02:21:15,795 --> 02:21:19,915
be growing, because we may ultimately not be able to

2138
02:21:19,915 --> 02:21:22,315
afford it or if there's some servicing challenge that we

2139
02:21:22,315 --> 02:21:26,275
can't foresee happening for 50 years. Why would we go

2140
02:21:26,275 --> 02:21:30,228
grow in that direction versus another? Area. And then just

2141
02:21:30,228 --> 02:21:33,188
in additional to Edward, I know that it's been delayed

2142
02:21:33,188 --> 02:21:36,348
a little bit. But staff has also been working on

2143
02:21:36,348 --> 02:21:42,851
the recreational master plan as well. And. My opinion is

2144
02:21:42,851 --> 02:21:45,611
that it's probably going to have some significant asks in

2145
02:21:45,611 --> 02:21:48,910
there, potentially. Is this something that you're looking at as

2146
02:21:48,910 --> 02:21:52,070
well, from, like, a recreational master plan standpoint? As well,

2147
02:21:52,070 --> 02:21:53,510
or is this something that's kind of a mute point

2148
02:21:53,510 --> 02:21:57,600
when it comes? To that. Thank you through the mayor

2149
02:21:57,600 --> 02:22:01,040
to the councilor Edward Soldo, general manager of infrastructure and

2150
02:22:01,040 --> 02:22:06,121
engineering. Services. All the services we provide are linked. And

2151
02:22:06,121 --> 02:22:09,823
so when I look at. Some of the recommendations out

2152
02:22:09,823 --> 02:22:14,814
of our master plan. They require servicing. And if we

2153
02:22:14,814 --> 02:22:21,037
don't have certainty? That some of those recommendations without servicing.

2154
02:22:22,600 --> 02:22:26,324
We're really just pushing things back further and further. I'll

2155
02:22:26,324 --> 02:22:30,774
comment on the item number three there. Engineering design includes

2156
02:22:30,774 --> 02:22:35,414
estimated capital costing after the completion of Southwest servicing plan.

2157
02:22:35,414 --> 02:22:38,850
The service plan for southwest quadrant. That plan right now

2158
02:22:38,850 --> 02:22:42,078
is at a very high level. It's in draft. It'll

2159
02:22:42,078 --> 02:22:44,718
take quite a bit of time just to complete high.

2160
02:22:44,718 --> 02:22:48,838
Level cost estimates to do engineering design. We're talking about

2161
02:22:48,838 --> 02:22:53,078
years before we come back and know those numbers. So

2162
02:22:53,078 --> 02:22:57,116
what this is going to do is push back. Timeline

2163
02:22:57,116 --> 02:23:01,036
for us to implement new growth areas like Bruce has

2164
02:23:01,036 --> 02:23:04,956
talked about or implement any of the recommendations of the

2165
02:23:04,956 --> 02:23:11,310
master plan that requires servicing. So, just to clarify, This

2166
02:23:11,310 --> 02:23:14,270
isn't talking like this term of council. This is years.

2167
02:23:14,270 --> 02:23:17,110
Then this is outside of. Our even, our even term

2168
02:23:17,110 --> 02:23:21,590
and councilor story, I think, mentioned the word critical. So

2169
02:23:21,590 --> 02:23:24,150
is this. Something that you find, if it passes, that.

2170
02:23:25,650 --> 02:23:28,522
We are going to markets breach that critical point. I

2171
02:23:28,522 --> 02:23:32,562
would say that this motion basically maintains Stasco with a

2172
02:23:32,562 --> 02:23:33,562
lot of uncertainty for many years.

2173
02:23:48,342 --> 02:23:55,089
Anything else? No, it's just a lot to just. It's

2174
02:23:55,089 --> 02:23:57,209
a difficult decision. I mean, if it was a month

2175
02:23:57,209 --> 02:24:00,009
or something. And I agree. With numbers. I understand. Councilor

2176
02:24:00,009 --> 02:24:02,209
McGregor's number four for sure. If it was my community.

2177
02:24:02,209 --> 02:24:05,569
I'd definitely be doing the exact same thing, but knowing

2178
02:24:05,569 --> 02:24:08,938
that, like, years. How the consultant said about the cost

2179
02:24:08,938 --> 02:24:11,818
associated with escalation and all that, and being critical in

2180
02:24:11,818 --> 02:24:17,070
the challenges. It's difficult at this point. Thank you, Councilor

2181
02:24:17,070 --> 02:24:21,470
Harrigan. Followed by councilor hall. Thank you. My questions are

2182
02:24:21,470 --> 02:24:25,950
related to the impact of the referral to recommendation number

2183
02:24:25,950 --> 02:24:27,630
one in the report and I had asked this question.

2184
02:24:29,806 --> 02:24:33,596
Kind of to clarify what recommendation meant. So I believe

2185
02:24:33,596 --> 02:24:38,254
this question through the mayor is to Edward. There are

2186
02:24:38,254 --> 02:24:41,774
master plan project summary recommendations in green, for example, like

2187
02:24:41,774 --> 02:24:46,014
state of good repair for wastewater treatment plans or wheatlead

2188
02:24:46,014 --> 02:24:48,574
tilbury water supply improvements. Right. Like in the green, that

2189
02:24:48,574 --> 02:24:52,069
was. Presented to us. The way that I read this

2190
02:24:52,069 --> 02:24:55,269
motion is that we would also be pausing on what

2191
02:24:55,269 --> 02:24:57,389
is in the green as well. But I wonder if

2192
02:24:57,389 --> 02:24:59,469
those are already in our capital plans, like some of

2193
02:24:59,469 --> 02:25:02,069
the state of good repair is just some capital improvements

2194
02:25:02,069 --> 02:25:04,469
that we would make in order to keep our wastewater

2195
02:25:04,469 --> 02:25:07,912
collection system in a state of good repair. I'm not

2196
02:25:07,912 --> 02:25:11,097
sure if that was a question, actually. Do you interpret

2197
02:25:11,097 --> 02:25:14,057
this motion as being that we would also not do

2198
02:25:14,057 --> 02:25:16,577
what is in the green. What is in the report

2199
02:25:16,577 --> 02:25:21,199
that is in the green. Maybe I'll go back to

2200
02:25:21,199 --> 02:25:25,599
the original recommendations from the report that Gord wrote. They

2201
02:25:25,599 --> 02:25:33,397
were developed. Number two, number three to start to move

2202
02:25:33,397 --> 02:25:36,917
on projects, so we start to implement them, to design.

2203
02:25:36,917 --> 02:25:41,821
And implement them. Specifically being the green ones. This one

2204
02:25:41,821 --> 02:25:47,669
here. I'm not exactly sure how that would work compared

2205
02:25:47,669 --> 02:25:51,076
to that. And I don't know if Darren has any

2206
02:25:51,076 --> 02:25:57,782
comments on that. And perhaps it's to the. Mover. If

2207
02:25:57,782 --> 02:25:59,862
she could comment to help me understand. Yes. Councilor C.

2208
02:25:59,862 --> 02:26:02,542
McGregor, can you comment on the green ones that we're

2209
02:26:02,542 --> 02:26:08,441
talking about. And yes. In looking at that. I can

2210
02:26:08,441 --> 02:26:11,562
see. And through the report tonight. If somebody wanted to

2211
02:26:11,562 --> 02:26:15,882
add that the recommendations, the green recommendations move forward during

2212
02:26:15,882 --> 02:26:18,042
this period of time. I have no problem with that

2213
02:26:18,042 --> 02:26:22,023
amendment into this motion. Is that something we can add?

2214
02:26:22,023 --> 02:26:26,657
Is. Your recommendation. It could certainly be added into my

2215
02:26:26,657 --> 02:26:31,903
recommendations. Even that this is being referred back. But number

2216
02:26:31,903 --> 02:26:35,823
one could be incorporated into my recommendations. I have no

2217
02:26:35,823 --> 02:26:38,903
problem with that. And even some of the other ones.

2218
02:26:38,903 --> 02:26:43,310
And I've heard some discussion. There. These can be separated

2219
02:26:43,310 --> 02:26:48,752
and voted on separately. If some people can understand. My

2220
02:26:48,752 --> 02:26:51,392
mythology or what I'm thinking in some of these, but

2221
02:26:51,392 --> 02:26:53,952
don't necessarily agree. With one or two, they could be

2222
02:26:53,952 --> 02:26:56,712
separated out to as a vote. Yeah. Because my thought

2223
02:26:56,712 --> 02:26:59,952
is perhaps the mover is wanting more information in order

2224
02:26:59,952 --> 02:27:01,952
for us to make some decisions on what is currently

2225
02:27:01,952 --> 02:27:04,792
in the yellow and the red categories, but what I

2226
02:27:04,792 --> 02:27:06,792
see in the green are, like, operational things that we

2227
02:27:06,792 --> 02:27:08,072
need to do. Right. There was a fire at the.

2228
02:27:08,958 --> 02:27:11,288
Wheatley treatment plant. We've got to fix that. And we

2229
02:27:11,288 --> 02:27:14,359
might as well fix that properly. However, and I will

2230
02:27:14,359 --> 02:27:20,230
lean on the clerk. The first line of the original

2231
02:27:20,230 --> 02:27:25,310
recommendation has Council affirming the prioritized project direction. As demonstrated

2232
02:27:25,310 --> 02:27:29,708
in the municipal view, consulting. Is it a friendly amendment

2233
02:27:29,708 --> 02:27:36,408
for me to ask for a friendly amendment to. Include

2234
02:27:36,408 --> 02:27:40,839
in this referral. To proceed with the green category project

2235
02:27:40,839 --> 02:27:42,759
as described in the report, which is just the bottom

2236
02:27:42,759 --> 02:27:46,860
of the first recommendation. Because this is a new motion.

2237
02:27:46,860 --> 02:27:49,100
You can put anything you would like in number one.

2238
02:27:50,970 --> 02:27:53,845
So then. I would like to ask our mover and

2239
02:27:53,845 --> 02:27:57,005
seconder if it's a friendly amendment. To include the line.

2240
02:27:58,351 --> 02:28:02,151
That council proceed with the green category project as described

2241
02:28:02,151 --> 02:28:10,031
in the report. I'm fine with that. Yes, definitely. And

2242
02:28:10,031 --> 02:28:15,282
that's all I will contribute for now. Thank you. Councilor

2243
02:28:15,282 --> 02:28:23,145
hall, followed by councilor story. Thank you, American. I couldn't

2244
02:28:23,145 --> 02:28:27,225
agree more with councilor Sey McGregor's motion to defer. And

2245
02:28:27,225 --> 02:28:30,985
fully support it. Decisions like this, with this magnitude and

2246
02:28:30,985 --> 02:28:33,225
the change of strategic direction, we need to ensure that

2247
02:28:33,225 --> 02:28:37,520
we have. All the details, all the proper information, and

2248
02:28:37,520 --> 02:28:39,440
we need to ensure that the public is fully aware.

2249
02:28:39,440 --> 02:28:42,120
Of these potential options. And I was thinking as well.

2250
02:28:43,583 --> 02:28:45,783
I know it's in the motion to the neighboring communities.

2251
02:28:45,783 --> 02:28:48,943
Definitely our neighboring community on wallpool. Island, First Nation I

2252
02:28:48,943 --> 02:28:51,543
know a lot of well, pilot infers. Nation members live

2253
02:28:51,543 --> 02:28:55,172
in Wallaceburg as well. The rest of my comments, I'd

2254
02:28:55,172 --> 02:28:57,892
like to kind of wrap it around two streams of

2255
02:28:57,892 --> 02:29:02,080
thought as well, so. First I recall covering this topic

2256
02:29:02,080 --> 02:29:04,400
as a reporter prior to being on council, I think

2257
02:29:04,400 --> 02:29:07,240
it was. Around the 2016 EA. I think I remember

2258
02:29:07,240 --> 02:29:10,960
interviewing councilor Thompson when he was a fresh faced PUC

2259
02:29:10,960 --> 02:29:15,016
member back in 2016. But I also recall the community

2260
02:29:15,016 --> 02:29:19,016
of Wallaceburg not only having concerns, but coming out in

2261
02:29:19,016 --> 02:29:23,136
droves. And attending public meetings, providing feedback, speaking passionately about

2262
02:29:23,136 --> 02:29:26,256
maintaining the water source for the community. I also recall,

2263
02:29:26,256 --> 02:29:29,016
as I was kind of alluded to tonight, basin part

2264
02:29:29,016 --> 02:29:33,871
of. That. Really near unanimous feedback from the community that

2265
02:29:33,871 --> 02:29:37,511
the preferred recommendation by the EA process that took place

2266
02:29:37,511 --> 02:29:40,111
was changed due to the strong message, and the source

2267
02:29:40,111 --> 02:29:42,991
was kept the same. So that's. Always been something that

2268
02:29:42,991 --> 02:29:46,420
I've really held onto, that. And I've spoken with lots

2269
02:29:46,420 --> 02:29:49,260
of people since I've been on council because I thought

2270
02:29:49,260 --> 02:29:53,300
that was a true testament of how people's voices matter

2271
02:29:53,300 --> 02:29:56,060
and how you can impact change at the municipal level.

2272
02:29:56,060 --> 02:29:59,820
Another example is the community rallying to save the hospital

2273
02:29:59,820 --> 02:30:03,940
in Wallsburg. That's another example that I've always used. So

2274
02:30:03,940 --> 02:30:07,739
secondly, with this tonight, so. Fast forward to today, I

2275
02:30:07,739 --> 02:30:10,419
really can't help but draw a comparison to a very

2276
02:30:10,419 --> 02:30:13,099
real and active situation that we're dealing with right now

2277
02:30:13,099 --> 02:30:18,340
in Dresden. The proposed dump. We've hired lawyers, we've rallied

2278
02:30:18,340 --> 02:30:22,500
the community and our neighbors. We've infested taxpayer dollars. We're

2279
02:30:22,500 --> 02:30:24,580
putting signs in our yards to defend Dresden. I have

2280
02:30:24,580 --> 02:30:27,140
one. In my earth, and I believe in everything that

2281
02:30:27,140 --> 02:30:29,460
we're doing with that. But at the end of the

2282
02:30:29,460 --> 02:30:33,260
day. What are we hoping for besides it just going

2283
02:30:33,260 --> 02:30:37,828
away? We're hoping for an EA process to take place.

2284
02:30:39,110 --> 02:30:40,390
And why are we doing that? So that we can

2285
02:30:40,390 --> 02:30:45,419
have our collective voices heard. The province is saying that

2286
02:30:45,419 --> 02:30:48,659
there's some overarching issues and there's some other priorities and

2287
02:30:48,659 --> 02:30:51,019
that the dump should happen anyway, regardless of what the

2288
02:30:51,019 --> 02:30:55,618
community says. So we'll see what happens with that. But

2289
02:30:55,618 --> 02:30:58,569
unfortunately. This sounds really similar to what we're being asked

2290
02:30:58,569 --> 02:31:03,392
to do tonight. And it's really frustrating. But I wanted

2291
02:31:03,392 --> 02:31:06,632
to illustrate that comparison, and I think really, it's contradictory

2292
02:31:06,632 --> 02:31:10,637
tone. We have a lot of unanswered questions, as councilor

2293
02:31:10,637 --> 02:31:16,000
McGregor alluded to. Our community, judging by zero deputations tonight.

2294
02:31:17,589 --> 02:31:25,675
With this report. Thanks. Are you judging by the. Noted

2295
02:31:25,675 --> 02:31:30,778
going into overtime. Judging by the zero deputations tonight, our

2296
02:31:30,778 --> 02:31:35,450
community is not aware of this proposed new direction. So

2297
02:31:35,450 --> 02:31:37,730
I believe that staying true to our council's strategic direction

2298
02:31:37,730 --> 02:31:41,661
of being open and transparent, That points us to sending

2299
02:31:41,661 --> 02:31:45,141
this issue back. So I'm hoping for council support for

2300
02:31:45,141 --> 02:31:50,048
councilor. McGregor's motion. Thanks, Mary Kina. Councilor story, followed by

2301
02:31:50,048 --> 02:31:57,869
Councilor Doyle. Thank you, Mayor cannoff. Really appreciate the discussion.

2302
02:31:59,832 --> 02:32:02,952
Clearly, we all have very good questions, and this will

2303
02:32:02,952 --> 02:32:07,444
likely be. One of the most important discussions we have

2304
02:32:07,444 --> 02:32:09,924
in terms of this council term, in terms of the

2305
02:32:09,924 --> 02:32:13,364
cost and the impact on the taxpayers. Because financially, if

2306
02:32:13,364 --> 02:32:18,125
we don't do it, Our economic growth. And might suffer.

2307
02:32:19,680 --> 02:32:21,160
And financially. If you don't do, we're going to suffer.

2308
02:32:21,160 --> 02:32:25,350
But if we go. Ahead with it. It's a massive

2309
02:32:25,350 --> 02:32:29,690
cost to our taxpayer as well. I am glad to

2310
02:32:29,690 --> 02:32:35,520
see the deferral motion by Councilor McGregor. As the previous

2311
02:32:35,520 --> 02:32:38,600
recommendation reports, that I was not comfortable supporting that as

2312
02:32:38,600 --> 02:32:43,640
it was written and with councilor McGregor's amendments. I will

2313
02:32:43,640 --> 02:32:47,060
be supporting that because. I also had a lot of

2314
02:32:47,060 --> 02:32:51,978
unanswered questions from the first report. That based on the

2315
02:32:51,978 --> 02:32:55,406
scale of what we're looking at, I didn't feel that.

2316
02:32:58,203 --> 02:33:03,003
There isn't a clear financial recommendation in the first report

2317
02:33:03,003 --> 02:33:06,203
for us to be transparent and accountable to our taxpayers

2318
02:33:06,203 --> 02:33:10,919
to say what we are approving and why. And based

2319
02:33:10,919 --> 02:33:14,439
on some of the counselors who are PUC representatives who

2320
02:33:14,439 --> 02:33:18,079
have shared some concerns, I respect those concerns as well,

2321
02:33:18,079 --> 02:33:24,529
including the chair. So. I think just a few quick

2322
02:33:24,529 --> 02:33:29,128
questions. I'm not clear to councilor Sakagi and Anderson's point.

2323
02:33:29,128 --> 02:33:34,973
I do appreciate the risk of delays. I am still

2324
02:33:34,973 --> 02:33:42,204
not clear. On how getting this in internal information. Would

2325
02:33:42,204 --> 02:33:45,004
potentially cost us years in terms of a time frame.

2326
02:33:45,004 --> 02:33:48,610
That's where I'm still not clear because. I totally understand.

2327
02:33:49,501 --> 02:33:52,360
We have a lot of moving parts with this. I'm

2328
02:33:52,360 --> 02:33:54,360
sorry. I don't know who that question should be directed

2329
02:33:54,360 --> 02:33:57,440
to, but I. Am still not clear on why this

2330
02:33:57,440 --> 02:34:02,987
could potentially. Add more years to this process by getting

2331
02:34:02,987 --> 02:34:07,628
the information that councilor McGregor has asked for. Through you,

2332
02:34:07,628 --> 02:34:09,868
your worship. Maybe if I can ask Mr. Soldo just

2333
02:34:09,868 --> 02:34:12,468
to give a bit more. Detail on number three, for

2334
02:34:12,468 --> 02:34:19,117
instance. Right. That's the engineering design piece that includes. An

2335
02:34:19,117 --> 02:34:22,941
estimated capital costing so. Unless I'm interpreting it wrong. I

2336
02:34:22,941 --> 02:34:25,821
think that's saying that you've got to do the engineering

2337
02:34:25,821 --> 02:34:29,830
design, which cost a lot of money. So I think

2338
02:34:29,830 --> 02:34:33,657
part of the delay is probably. Raising the funds to

2339
02:34:33,657 --> 02:34:37,650
do that and then also. The time frame associated with

2340
02:34:37,650 --> 02:34:39,690
the work. But maybe, Mr. Solder, you can give a

2341
02:34:39,690 --> 02:34:41,890
bit more. Idea about why. You said it would cost

2342
02:34:41,890 --> 02:34:47,319
years, take years. Thank you. Mayor this year is correct.

2343
02:34:49,185 --> 02:34:52,625
If it's the wording that's there. Engineering design that includes

2344
02:34:52,625 --> 02:34:56,305
estimated capital cost. Right now we're doing a servicing plan.

2345
02:34:57,535 --> 02:35:00,015
We would have to do yays. We actually, actually have

2346
02:35:00,015 --> 02:35:03,586
to do engineering. Mostly you're aware, around the table, that

2347
02:35:03,586 --> 02:35:08,279
takes. One to three to four years. That's why. The

2348
02:35:08,279 --> 02:35:10,399
way that that motion is written right now, that is

2349
02:35:10,399 --> 02:35:13,799
problematic to come back and then that sort of a

2350
02:35:13,799 --> 02:35:21,371
short time frame. Sorry. Councilor Sima Gregory. You're looking for

2351
02:35:21,371 --> 02:35:26,087
some clarification. From what Mr. Nolo said. Yes, I realized

2352
02:35:26,087 --> 02:35:30,167
that. Sorry. And it's just clarification. On his remarks, but

2353
02:35:30,167 --> 02:35:35,281
I thought by adding. The green category. Priorities. Back into

2354
02:35:35,281 --> 02:35:38,769
this. The yellow and the red. Were like five to

2355
02:35:38,769 --> 02:35:42,813
ten years out, and the other were possibly not. Due.

2356
02:35:42,813 --> 02:35:47,233
So if we add the green categories back in, Which.

2357
02:35:48,641 --> 02:35:50,721
Has been added back to or added into my motion

2358
02:35:50,721 --> 02:35:57,800
here. We're going to be in that timeline regardless. If

2359
02:35:57,800 --> 02:36:04,333
we're looking at getting information for. The other. Recommendations that

2360
02:36:04,333 --> 02:36:07,293
are in the previous, so I'm not quite understanding why

2361
02:36:07,293 --> 02:36:09,453
it's going to take that period of time if we're

2362
02:36:09,453 --> 02:36:14,345
going to move forward with the green category. Projects. If

2363
02:36:14,345 --> 02:36:18,143
I can, you worship. That would be helpful. It may

2364
02:36:18,143 --> 02:36:21,857
be that. The operative sentence there, the first one that

2365
02:36:21,857 --> 02:36:24,697
says the recommendations be referred back to the puc. So

2366
02:36:24,697 --> 02:36:30,179
perhaps. The mover might consider that it would be the.

2367
02:36:30,179 --> 02:36:32,659
Are you talking about the yellow and red? Recommendations, then,

2368
02:36:32,659 --> 02:36:34,419
because if you add the language that I think was

2369
02:36:34,419 --> 02:36:40,201
proposed, By Councilor Harrigan. Then that would help because it's

2370
02:36:40,201 --> 02:36:43,081
still there. It still says engineering design, and it BASICALLY

2371
02:36:43,081 --> 02:36:46,481
says that their recommendations be referred back until. So that

2372
02:36:46,481 --> 02:36:48,641
would mean none of this can be done. Until all

2373
02:36:48,641 --> 02:36:51,241
that design work is done. So that's where I think

2374
02:36:51,241 --> 02:36:54,477
the confusion came in. Again. I don't want to speak

2375
02:36:54,477 --> 02:36:56,717
for the planners and engineers. Maybe they can jump in.

2376
02:36:56,717 --> 02:36:59,517
If they think I'm mistaken. But if you clarify that.

2377
02:37:01,088 --> 02:37:03,528
The yellow and red recommendations are the ones that would

2378
02:37:03,528 --> 02:37:07,806
be referred back. Until some additional work can be done.

2379
02:37:07,806 --> 02:37:11,938
I'd be still interested in hearing from Mr. McAllister. Or

2380
02:37:11,938 --> 02:37:15,778
Ryan jocks, just in terms of how that impacts the

2381
02:37:15,778 --> 02:37:19,218
rest of it. But that would help, because at least

2382
02:37:19,218 --> 02:37:21,218
it means that we can move ahead with the green

2383
02:37:21,218 --> 02:37:23,698
stuff, which I know. Was your intent. But with that

2384
02:37:23,698 --> 02:37:26,618
language there still in paragraph number three, that's where I

2385
02:37:26,618 --> 02:37:28,858
think we're looking at a couple of years and a

2386
02:37:28,858 --> 02:37:32,068
lot of money to get engineering. Design done. Mr. So.

2387
02:37:33,685 --> 02:37:36,565
Is that okay, councilor? And that wasn't my intent to

2388
02:37:36,565 --> 02:37:41,405
cause years of issues here. For the engineering department. If

2389
02:37:41,405 --> 02:37:46,805
it's clearer for administration that the recommendations of the yellow

2390
02:37:46,805 --> 02:37:50,805
and red categories from the report be referred back to

2391
02:37:50,805 --> 02:37:54,276
the P and I put the PoC and the. Administration

2392
02:37:54,276 --> 02:37:57,076
of Chatham, Kent, because I think the creation of that

2393
02:37:57,076 --> 02:37:59,276
group, and that's in the group that's going to be

2394
02:37:59,276 --> 02:38:01,876
formed, say, the CK flow or whatever needs to be

2395
02:38:01,876 --> 02:38:05,556
a combination of both Puc and municipality together so that.

2396
02:38:07,708 --> 02:38:17,269
Any so that we don't have. Continued. Misunderstandings. Between. The

2397
02:38:17,269 --> 02:38:20,814
two, so. If it makes it easier and better understood.

2398
02:38:22,343 --> 02:38:25,863
That the recommendations of the yellow and red categories be

2399
02:38:25,863 --> 02:38:29,183
referred back to the PUC and to the municipality administration.

2400
02:38:31,243 --> 02:38:33,403
Mr. Soto may want to add to that, I have

2401
02:38:33,403 --> 02:38:36,403
an appreciation. Thank you. Through Mr. Mary just for clarity,

2402
02:38:36,403 --> 02:38:40,963
the green does not include any projects in southwest servicing

2403
02:38:40,963 --> 02:38:47,667
area. So if you are intending to. Have growth along

2404
02:38:47,667 --> 02:38:50,587
the Bloomfield corridor. If you're intending to implement some of

2405
02:38:50,587 --> 02:38:57,007
the recreational master plan recommendations. That would not be included

2406
02:38:57,007 --> 02:38:58,687
in this, and we would not be able to move

2407
02:38:58,687 --> 02:39:02,970
forward with those areas. I would also say that if

2408
02:39:02,970 --> 02:39:06,130
council's direction is to move forward with the green, then.

2409
02:39:07,908 --> 02:39:11,228
You would most likely want to include the recommendations from

2410
02:39:11,228 --> 02:39:15,228
the original port numbers two and three because without that

2411
02:39:15,228 --> 02:39:18,588
staffing, we cannot move forward with the green projects either.

2412
02:39:18,588 --> 02:39:21,868
No, I'll be flexible and remove the words engineering design

2413
02:39:21,868 --> 02:39:25,428
if that makes it better for you. But the capital

2414
02:39:25,428 --> 02:39:29,010
cost and the completion after the. Service plan, the southwest

2415
02:39:29,010 --> 02:39:31,290
quadrant. It needs to come back to this council so

2416
02:39:31,290 --> 02:39:36,906
we understand what those dollars are. So far. From what

2417
02:39:36,906 --> 02:39:42,506
I read in the report, like, we're over $780,000,000. Of

2418
02:39:42,506 --> 02:39:47,793
costing. Of servicing water and wastewater to the southwest water

2419
02:39:47,793 --> 02:39:50,353
that everybody wants to move forward with. I think we're

2420
02:39:50,353 --> 02:39:53,593
entitled to that information and those costs before those decisions

2421
02:39:53,593 --> 02:39:57,080
are made. So, like, if you want to take out

2422
02:39:57,080 --> 02:40:01,997
engineer design from number three, So that it includes capital

2423
02:40:01,997 --> 02:40:11,699
costing. I'm sorry. I can't make decisions. And decides of

2424
02:40:11,699 --> 02:40:15,864
these decisions that come back to council. Mr. Solo, does

2425
02:40:15,864 --> 02:40:19,907
that help if we take that out? Because. I don't

2426
02:40:19,907 --> 02:40:22,907
think the looking to do is stop the initial progress

2427
02:40:22,907 --> 02:40:25,667
on it, on those. Things. But ultimately, when we start

2428
02:40:25,667 --> 02:40:29,807
getting down to. We're spending hundreds of millions of dollars.

2429
02:40:29,807 --> 02:40:31,447
That's when we want the approval we're going to need

2430
02:40:31,447 --> 02:40:32,927
to do some of that. So that's why I was

2431
02:40:32,927 --> 02:40:36,106
going. To ask the general question is. What can we

2432
02:40:36,106 --> 02:40:38,626
do? The yellow and red, that's the big issue of

2433
02:40:38,626 --> 02:40:42,713
saying we need. To look at it more. But. We

2434
02:40:42,713 --> 02:40:45,513
collectively don't want to stop the progress and wait two

2435
02:40:45,513 --> 02:40:48,793
years to start that process. So that's we're looking here.

2436
02:40:48,793 --> 02:40:52,513
I think that councilor Sema Greger. Is trying to find

2437
02:40:52,513 --> 02:40:55,513
that median that we can move on with everything, but

2438
02:40:55,513 --> 02:40:58,153
we really need to. Have a better business case for

2439
02:40:58,153 --> 02:41:00,473
the yellow and the red, and I think that's ultimately

2440
02:41:00,473 --> 02:41:01,993
what the report saying is we need a better business.

2441
02:41:02,812 --> 02:41:04,372
Case to say, what are we going to do with

2442
02:41:04,372 --> 02:41:11,740
those cases? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just for clarity. It

2443
02:41:11,740 --> 02:41:14,940
was always the intention of staff and the PUC to

2444
02:41:14,940 --> 02:41:18,620
come back to council and the PUC with the results

2445
02:41:18,620 --> 02:41:21,740
of the servicing plan, and that's why it's not. Actually

2446
02:41:21,740 --> 02:41:24,860
included in any of the recommendations in the first report.

2447
02:41:26,215 --> 02:41:28,415
In the motion here. So you don't see the southwest

2448
02:41:28,415 --> 02:41:31,295
servicing plan on any of the recommendations that Gore is

2449
02:41:31,295 --> 02:41:34,615
put forward. It's always our intention to follow the process

2450
02:41:34,615 --> 02:41:38,473
and come back. With those costs to council at a

2451
02:41:38,473 --> 02:41:43,770
future date. But. The recommendations in the original report, says

2452
02:41:43,770 --> 02:41:47,850
council affirm the proprietary project direction as demonstrated in the

2453
02:41:47,850 --> 02:41:54,179
municipal vu. Consulting, Inc. Water and wastewater Plan review. And

2454
02:41:54,179 --> 02:41:57,019
direct the Chatham Kent public utilities. It says to proceed

2455
02:41:57,019 --> 02:42:00,339
with the green categories, but it also says to support

2456
02:42:00,339 --> 02:42:05,221
the priorities of that report. And those priorities are. To

2457
02:42:05,221 --> 02:42:09,803
then adopt. The scenario of the yellow and the red.

2458
02:42:16,620 --> 02:42:20,726
So again, maybe for further clarity, The green, the yellow

2459
02:42:20,726 --> 02:42:24,841
and the red speak to the existing. Puc master plan.

2460
02:42:24,841 --> 02:42:27,761
They do not speak to the servicing plan. Yes, they

2461
02:42:27,761 --> 02:42:33,121
do, but you can. Also not understand. What the cost

2462
02:42:33,121 --> 02:42:38,281
is for servicing the southwest quadrant without including those costs

2463
02:42:38,281 --> 02:42:40,961
to us to be able to understand what's being asked

2464
02:42:40,961 --> 02:42:44,820
for us in the original recommendations. At the end of

2465
02:42:44,820 --> 02:42:51,901
the day. It's going to come back to the public.

2466
02:42:51,901 --> 02:42:56,106
It was council's direction, and if we don't understand. What

2467
02:42:56,106 --> 02:43:03,363
our direction that we're voting on. Clearly. Then. It shouldn't

2468
02:43:03,363 --> 02:43:09,246
be considered council direction. Yes. So the yellow and the

2469
02:43:09,246 --> 02:43:12,086
red are the contentious issues. I guess we'll get back.

2470
02:43:12,086 --> 02:43:19,731
To. What are the barriers? Councilor sey McGregor's motion. What

2471
02:43:19,731 --> 02:43:22,891
is in here that stops? You from at least exploring

2472
02:43:22,891 --> 02:43:25,651
those options and coming back to council eventually with those

2473
02:43:25,651 --> 02:43:28,671
costs. I don't think the intention of this is to

2474
02:43:28,671 --> 02:43:31,551
stop. That is to say. Hang on. Here. We don't

2475
02:43:31,551 --> 02:43:33,831
want to commit to the yellow and the right. We

2476
02:43:33,831 --> 02:43:35,791
need to look. More. I think we all agree we

2477
02:43:35,791 --> 02:43:39,146
need to look at all those. I think we're really

2478
02:43:39,146 --> 02:43:42,350
getting hung up with the wording here. That we could

2479
02:43:42,350 --> 02:43:45,070
talk online about that, but just. I think that's. Correct

2480
02:43:45,070 --> 02:43:47,070
me wrong that's. The premise that we're looking at is

2481
02:43:47,070 --> 02:43:49,430
saying, let's look at all this other stuff. We commit

2482
02:43:49,430 --> 02:43:52,670
to the green, but don't stop the movement of figuring

2483
02:43:52,670 --> 02:43:54,950
out. What's best in yellow and red categories. Is that

2484
02:43:54,950 --> 02:44:01,830
a good summary? I guess with. That. Mr. Dubin, is

2485
02:44:01,830 --> 02:44:05,259
there anything we can change in here? That opens that

2486
02:44:05,259 --> 02:44:07,339
door for you? Because I think we're all saying the

2487
02:44:07,339 --> 02:44:12,578
same thing collectively. But just in a different fashion. Yeah,

2488
02:44:12,578 --> 02:44:16,298
I think. Thank you, your worship. I appreciate the clarification.

2489
02:44:16,298 --> 02:44:18,178
About the green, yellow and red, and I think we

2490
02:44:18,178 --> 02:44:20,679
all get that now. And I'm appreciative that there seems

2491
02:44:20,679 --> 02:44:23,079
to be some support subject to a vote for the

2492
02:44:23,079 --> 02:44:27,798
green. I think the part that's missing. In this new

2493
02:44:27,798 --> 02:44:30,478
set of recommendations is how is it going to be

2494
02:44:30,478 --> 02:44:35,302
done? The recommendations that were in Gord's report talked about

2495
02:44:35,302 --> 02:44:38,422
creating a group and probably coming back to council with

2496
02:44:38,422 --> 02:44:40,422
a proposal on how much it's going to cost to

2497
02:44:40,422 --> 02:44:42,982
do some of this work. I think that's part of

2498
02:44:42,982 --> 02:44:46,261
what is missing in this one. And the challenge is

2499
02:44:46,261 --> 02:44:48,421
the way that it's worded. Even with the amendments you

2500
02:44:48,421 --> 02:44:54,084
talked. About. It says the yellow and red recommendations be

2501
02:44:54,084 --> 02:44:56,724
referred back to the PUC and the admin. Until the

2502
02:44:56,724 --> 02:44:59,564
following has been provided to council. So we have to

2503
02:44:59,564 --> 02:45:01,684
do all this stuff, but I. Don't think we have

2504
02:45:01,684 --> 02:45:05,609
the assets to do the stuff and. I think Mr.

2505
02:45:05,609 --> 02:45:08,649
Quinton wanted to speak to that. Those were a couple

2506
02:45:08,649 --> 02:45:12,167
of recommendation of Mr. Quinton's report that are missing. In

2507
02:45:12,167 --> 02:45:14,833
years, council, and I get it. That's not really. Actually,

2508
02:45:14,833 --> 02:45:18,273
that is what number one addresses. It's the joint PuC

2509
02:45:18,273 --> 02:45:21,513
municipal. I didn't. Call it flow CK, but that's what

2510
02:45:21,513 --> 02:45:23,553
that is. You can call it whatever you want to

2511
02:45:23,553 --> 02:45:28,999
call it. My recommendation is a joint PUC municipal group

2512
02:45:28,999 --> 02:45:32,559
with the purpose of creating that joint servicing strategy. Which.

2513
02:45:34,185 --> 02:45:40,507
Then goes to that recommendation of the flow CK. It's

2514
02:45:40,507 --> 02:45:43,836
the same intent. Maybe Mr. Clinton. I know he had

2515
02:45:43,836 --> 02:45:46,076
something to add that will be helpful. You do fill

2516
02:45:46,076 --> 02:45:49,862
the floor. We're just trying to clarify this. Thank you.

2517
02:45:49,862 --> 02:45:55,271
I think we're all getting to the same place. That's

2518
02:45:55,271 --> 02:45:59,511
what the original recommendations was to do, move forward with

2519
02:45:59,511 --> 02:46:07,166
the greens. Because. We haven't done the engineering designs for

2520
02:46:07,166 --> 02:46:12,530
the greens yet. There's been some. Yays. And. Some plans

2521
02:46:12,530 --> 02:46:15,490
started, but we need to get those things going. We

2522
02:46:15,490 --> 02:46:17,810
put them on hold for additional six months to have

2523
02:46:17,810 --> 02:46:21,290
municipal view do the work that came here tonight. So

2524
02:46:21,290 --> 02:46:27,264
those need to get going? The yellow and reds need

2525
02:46:27,264 --> 02:46:30,504
to be studied and whether it's with the flow cc

2526
02:46:30,504 --> 02:46:33,664
group. Or the PUC. And I know we had government

2527
02:46:33,664 --> 02:46:37,464
discussions and everything else tonight, but I think we're really

2528
02:46:37,464 --> 02:46:39,544
getting to the same place that we need further study.

2529
02:46:41,732 --> 02:46:44,852
When you're talking about the Wallaceburg, there's no decision on.

2530
02:46:46,141 --> 02:46:50,985
What? Tonight on where we're going with Wallsburg. It's saying.

2531
02:46:52,959 --> 02:46:56,905
Just to stop. And take another look. Sorry. Just to

2532
02:46:56,905 --> 02:46:59,545
try and wrap this up, because we'll at least get

2533
02:46:59,545 --> 02:47:01,545
this because I. Think we're saying the same thing. And

2534
02:47:01,545 --> 02:47:04,945
if there's nothing in here, that is. Like from Edward

2535
02:47:04,945 --> 02:47:08,211
or Bruce. Or from Gore to say, oh, this is

2536
02:47:08,211 --> 02:47:10,531
a showstopper. We can still continue on what we're doing,

2537
02:47:10,531 --> 02:47:12,851
because I think we're saying the same thing just in

2538
02:47:12,851 --> 02:47:16,416
a different motion. And I'll let rail speak out, but

2539
02:47:16,416 --> 02:47:20,470
I think. Unless I see anybody saying there's something there

2540
02:47:20,470 --> 02:47:23,902
that. This stops us in our tracks from doing this.

2541
02:47:25,652 --> 02:47:29,212
Sorry. Point of order. I do believe that Edward did

2542
02:47:29,212 --> 02:47:33,603
say it does stop any progression of anything. That's why

2543
02:47:33,603 --> 02:47:35,474
I want to get. To specifically, where in here does

2544
02:47:35,474 --> 02:47:37,194
that stop it? And that's why I was trying to.

2545
02:47:37,194 --> 02:47:42,113
Find that ramp. To say so is there something, Edward,

2546
02:47:42,113 --> 02:47:45,153
in here that when you go through, you need to

2547
02:47:45,153 --> 02:47:49,624
do? The studies or something because we've taken out. Engineering

2548
02:47:49,624 --> 02:47:57,248
design. Thank you, Mr. I would suggest. That be removed.

2549
02:47:58,858 --> 02:48:03,258
Because it speaks to the southwest quadrant. We have a

2550
02:48:03,258 --> 02:48:05,858
process in place. We'll come back. To council as we

2551
02:48:05,858 --> 02:48:09,802
follow through that process. It's not referred to any of

2552
02:48:09,802 --> 02:48:13,642
these. And what's missing in this motion is items two

2553
02:48:13,642 --> 02:48:19,150
and three. Of the original recommendations that tells us, as

2554
02:48:19,150 --> 02:48:23,542
CIOs indicate, how we're going to actually implement these. So

2555
02:48:23,542 --> 02:48:26,262
I'll go back to the mover then on those things

2556
02:48:26,262 --> 02:48:32,076
that Edward just mentioned. Viewership. Can I make a suggestion?

2557
02:48:32,076 --> 02:48:39,750
Certainly. If the move is okay. And I apologize. We

2558
02:48:39,750 --> 02:48:41,910
have had an emergency situation, so I've had to get

2559
02:48:41,910 --> 02:48:45,246
up a few times. If the mover is okay with

2560
02:48:45,246 --> 02:48:48,086
it. I think we all agree that three, four years

2561
02:48:48,086 --> 02:48:50,606
delay or multiple years delay is too much. It seems

2562
02:48:50,606 --> 02:48:53,663
to me that we're pretty close. And I hear from

2563
02:48:53,663 --> 02:48:57,103
councilor McGregor and the seconder and some of the folks

2564
02:48:57,103 --> 02:49:00,843
who've. Made suggestions. I think we're pretty close to language

2565
02:49:00,843 --> 02:49:04,283
that probably everybody can agree to, and I don't like

2566
02:49:04,283 --> 02:49:07,243
having a discussion in the public suggesting that we're fighting

2567
02:49:07,243 --> 02:49:08,923
with our counselors. We're not. We're all trying to reach

2568
02:49:08,923 --> 02:49:11,803
a common place. I know we. Have another meeting coming

2569
02:49:11,803 --> 02:49:15,643
up. I think we can work with councilor McGregor on

2570
02:49:15,643 --> 02:49:19,439
language that would be more comfortable for everybody. I'd like

2571
02:49:19,439 --> 02:49:21,239
to do that behind the scenes so that we can

2572
02:49:21,239 --> 02:49:24,626
then bring something forward. Because I think we're all saying

2573
02:49:24,626 --> 02:49:26,746
the same thing. We have a situation we need to

2574
02:49:26,746 --> 02:49:29,704
address it. The green ones. I know you haven't voted,

2575
02:49:29,704 --> 02:49:31,544
but I'm going to go out on a limb. And

2576
02:49:31,544 --> 02:49:33,424
say the green ones are something that most people want

2577
02:49:33,424 --> 02:49:35,624
to get done, and we have to work out the

2578
02:49:35,624 --> 02:49:37,904
wording. I can tell you staff have no objection to

2579
02:49:37,904 --> 02:49:40,584
the language about the engagement and consultation. That's something we

2580
02:49:40,584 --> 02:49:43,544
would do anyway, so I appreciate that both councilors. Have

2581
02:49:43,544 --> 02:49:47,104
spoken to that. So if it's okay to just. Somebody

2582
02:49:47,104 --> 02:49:48,984
would bring a motion to. Just defer this to the

2583
02:49:48,984 --> 02:49:52,388
next. Meeting, and we can work with councilor McGregor and

2584
02:49:52,388 --> 02:49:55,979
the secondary to get some language that I think? Will

2585
02:49:55,979 --> 02:49:59,385
reach meet our needs. Is that good with you as

2586
02:49:59,385 --> 02:50:02,105
the mover to defer to the next meeting and come?

2587
02:50:02,105 --> 02:50:05,185
Back with something that works, because this is a pretty

2588
02:50:05,185 --> 02:50:06,945
complicated issue, and I like to make sure that we

2589
02:50:06,945 --> 02:50:09,745
get it right. We're talking about potentially a billion dollars

2590
02:50:09,745 --> 02:50:12,625
here. So if we have to wait a few weeks

2591
02:50:12,625 --> 02:50:14,625
to get to our next meeting. I don't think that's.

2592
02:50:14,625 --> 02:50:16,265
Going to be the end of the world, but I

2593
02:50:16,265 --> 02:50:19,641
would like to make sure that. Your concerns are taking

2594
02:50:19,641 --> 02:50:21,561
care of the second or. But I think we're pretty

2595
02:50:21,561 --> 02:50:26,272
close to having the right wording. And if that's what

2596
02:50:26,272 --> 02:50:28,912
everybody. If I can see some heads shaking around here,

2597
02:50:28,912 --> 02:50:31,752
if everybody's. Happy with that. To move to the next

2598
02:50:31,752 --> 02:50:37,774
meeting to come up with better language. Then certainly I

2599
02:50:37,774 --> 02:50:41,797
will. Put this on hold to refer this to the

2600
02:50:41,797 --> 02:50:47,503
next meeting. For voting. You're moving that? Councilor Anderson, will

2601
02:50:47,503 --> 02:50:52,349
you second that? I will, so long as. There's ample

2602
02:50:52,349 --> 02:50:55,829
time for councilor McGregor and I to have the conversations

2603
02:50:55,829 --> 02:50:57,749
that we need. To have with the administration, with the

2604
02:50:57,749 --> 02:51:00,069
POC to come to common grounds so that when we

2605
02:51:00,069 --> 02:51:06,790
do come back to council. There's some confidence in what

2606
02:51:06,790 --> 02:51:08,950
we're bringing to them so that we hopefully don't get

2607
02:51:08,950 --> 02:51:12,300
in this situation again. Where we are kind of all

2608
02:51:12,300 --> 02:51:14,140
going back and forth and not having an understanding. I

2609
02:51:14,140 --> 02:51:16,460
just want. To make sure we are all very clear

2610
02:51:16,460 --> 02:51:19,580
when we do come back. I see there's three weeks,

2611
02:51:19,580 --> 02:51:21,900
and I think we're pretty close collectively. As I look

2612
02:51:21,900 --> 02:51:24,860
around, seeing the head, shaking and things that I think

2613
02:51:24,860 --> 02:51:28,972
were there. It's just the wording. I hate sitting here

2614
02:51:28,972 --> 02:51:31,412
trying to word Smith that we miss. Something that's so

2615
02:51:31,412 --> 02:51:35,452
critical with what we're looking at. So with that. Sorry.

2616
02:51:35,452 --> 02:51:39,692
Anything. Other comments sorry, counselor, story still has the floor

2617
02:51:39,692 --> 02:51:43,546
from this and councilor story, and then. I did have

2618
02:51:43,546 --> 02:51:47,546
councilor Thompson as well. Thank you, councilor. Thank you, Maricana.

2619
02:51:47,546 --> 02:51:49,906
Yeah, I. Appreciate all the discussion. That's why I asked

2620
02:51:49,906 --> 02:51:53,786
the question about the timing, because there obviously is some.

2621
02:51:53,786 --> 02:51:56,804
We haven't quite landed on that. I don't know if

2622
02:51:56,804 --> 02:51:59,044
my questions are if we're differing all of this, that

2623
02:51:59,044 --> 02:52:00,684
there's a point in asking them, but maybe I'll just

2624
02:52:00,684 --> 02:52:05,244
quickly ask. So if. We're deferring this council. McGregor's motion.

2625
02:52:07,019 --> 02:52:08,939
Are we going back to the original or that is

2626
02:52:08,939 --> 02:52:10,939
also not going to be discussed. So it's also off

2627
02:52:10,939 --> 02:52:13,899
the table for tonight. Yes, the wording would be similar

2628
02:52:13,899 --> 02:52:18,218
to what we have. On whether we're contemplating there, but

2629
02:52:18,218 --> 02:52:22,697
to modify it accordingly. I think my only just two

2630
02:52:22,697 --> 02:52:27,493
questions to that, then. In terms of the growth study

2631
02:52:27,493 --> 02:52:31,533
versus the servicing with the southwest quadrant at our last

2632
02:52:31,533 --> 02:52:35,413
meeting, when Ryan presented that detailed update about our growth

2633
02:52:35,413 --> 02:52:40,336
area. Like the areas of growth. In our cross municipality.

2634
02:52:40,336 --> 02:52:43,706
Is this a chicken and the egg? Type approach. Where?

2635
02:52:43,706 --> 02:52:45,906
Why would we even be talking about growth in the

2636
02:52:45,906 --> 02:52:52,612
southwest quadrant? In isolation of infrastructure needs in the southwest

2637
02:52:52,612 --> 02:52:55,233
Crotch. And I guess maybe. I still being a first

2638
02:52:55,233 --> 02:52:57,713
term counselor? I'm learning a lot as I go, but

2639
02:52:57,713 --> 02:53:02,193
I guess I perhaps assume that servicing needs are included

2640
02:53:02,193 --> 02:53:08,479
in discussions about growth. In our community, so. The piece

2641
02:53:08,479 --> 02:53:11,519
about why that was not addressed in other POC plans

2642
02:53:11,519 --> 02:53:14,239
is, I think, for another discussion but should be addressed.

2643
02:53:14,239 --> 02:53:16,159
But I think in terms of what we already have

2644
02:53:16,159 --> 02:53:21,488
discussed, even in the last council meeting. To councilor McGregor's

2645
02:53:21,488 --> 02:53:23,488
point. I don't see how we can't do one without

2646
02:53:23,488 --> 02:53:25,168
the other. Or is it a chicken in the egg

2647
02:53:25,168 --> 02:53:27,368
thing? How can we talk about. Growth in the southwest

2648
02:53:27,368 --> 02:53:30,048
quadrant and approve that by their last meeting and then

2649
02:53:30,048 --> 02:53:32,688
say we can't. Talk about the infrastructure needs of that.

2650
02:53:32,688 --> 02:53:34,288
To me, that was all part of the same discussion.

2651
02:53:37,030 --> 02:53:40,913
But perhaps. I am not understanding that correctly. Is it

2652
02:53:40,913 --> 02:53:42,313
a chicken in the egg thing? We can't have one

2653
02:53:42,313 --> 02:53:44,033
without the other or. We can't do the one first

2654
02:53:44,033 --> 02:53:45,553
and then the other second, or we've got. To do

2655
02:53:45,553 --> 02:53:49,309
it all together. We're going to ask Mr. Jogg to

2656
02:53:49,309 --> 02:53:52,269
come up and given the reference to sorry. I think

2657
02:53:52,269 --> 02:53:54,669
this is a question we can do with this, because

2658
02:53:54,669 --> 02:53:56,909
we can discuss this the next motion. We have that

2659
02:53:56,909 --> 02:53:59,469
because we're starting into details. It's just we're going to

2660
02:53:59,469 --> 02:54:02,069
post. I really want to focus on just postponing it

2661
02:54:02,069 --> 02:54:07,517
to next meeting. We will have another. Thing. Yes. So

2662
02:54:07,517 --> 02:54:10,197
we are just saying we need to have some time

2663
02:54:10,197 --> 02:54:12,437
to reword that, so. We can come back with that

2664
02:54:12,437 --> 02:54:15,277
motion, and then we'll start again fresh. Everybody have their

2665
02:54:15,277 --> 02:54:17,317
opportunity to speak to it, et cetera, at that point.

2666
02:54:17,317 --> 02:54:19,077
So, Councilor Thomas, is there anything you want to say

2667
02:54:19,077 --> 02:54:23,117
about this? Yes. Just real quickly. And I appreciate all

2668
02:54:23,117 --> 02:54:25,997
the conversation that's. Gone on around the table. One thing

2669
02:54:25,997 --> 02:54:28,493
that has kind of become. Clear to me is that

2670
02:54:28,493 --> 02:54:30,973
this isn't only a Wallaceburg issue. This is very much

2671
02:54:30,973 --> 02:54:35,613
a Chatham, Kent issue that has wide ranging impacts. And

2672
02:54:35,613 --> 02:54:37,773
going back to number four, that's not up there anymore.

2673
02:54:37,773 --> 02:54:39,853
And I appreciate it, because I think you're right, Mr.

2674
02:54:39,853 --> 02:54:42,053
Mayor. When we word Smith this on the floor. It

2675
02:54:42,053 --> 02:54:44,973
gets really awkward and difficult, so I'm glad. It's going

2676
02:54:44,973 --> 02:54:48,677
back, but I would like to see. The consultation expanded

2677
02:54:48,677 --> 02:54:52,077
beyond the borders of Wallaceburg to include all of Chattakan.

2678
02:54:52,077 --> 02:54:53,717
That's the only thing I would like to add. My

2679
02:54:53,717 --> 02:54:58,240
two cent. Okay. Councilor hall. Yeah, thank you. Quick question.

2680
02:55:00,097 --> 02:55:03,314
Considering that this report. Is going to be pushed to

2681
02:55:03,314 --> 02:55:05,754
the next meeting. I just want to confirm that new

2682
02:55:05,754 --> 02:55:09,554
deputations. Will be able to be submitted for that item

2683
02:55:09,554 --> 02:55:13,330
on that day. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yes. With the

2684
02:55:13,330 --> 02:55:15,170
new motions coming forward, we want to be transparent and

2685
02:55:15,170 --> 02:55:17,730
give the public an opportunity to speak to those. So,

2686
02:55:17,730 --> 02:55:21,320
yes. It would be. Deputations would be available. Okay, final

2687
02:55:21,320 --> 02:55:24,560
words. Councilor Anderson. Then councilor. C. McGregor. Anything quickly on

2688
02:55:24,560 --> 02:55:32,081
this? Thank you. And through you. I think that I'll

2689
02:55:32,081 --> 02:55:36,749
just state again that I feel like. We're in this

2690
02:55:36,749 --> 02:55:41,838
position because. We have a really difficult time making. Difficult

2691
02:55:41,838 --> 02:55:45,118
decisions as council, and it's because we care so much.

2692
02:55:46,497 --> 02:55:50,977
But ultimately us not making really difficult decisions and continuously

2693
02:55:50,977 --> 02:55:54,177
referring things back is the exact reason that we're in

2694
02:55:54,177 --> 02:55:57,977
this position, and if we continuously continue to send things

2695
02:55:57,977 --> 02:55:59,897
back and send things back and not get things done.

2696
02:55:59,897 --> 02:56:02,912
And not get things done. It's just going to be

2697
02:56:02,912 --> 02:56:05,592
exactly as it was before. 40 minutes, million dollar project

2698
02:56:05,592 --> 02:56:09,112
becomes a 200 million dollar project. A $30 million project

2699
02:56:09,112 --> 02:56:13,266
of the civic center becomes a $54 million product. If

2700
02:56:13,266 --> 02:56:15,826
we continuously kick the can down the road and we

2701
02:56:15,826 --> 02:56:18,506
don't make these really tough. Decisions. We're just going to

2702
02:56:18,506 --> 02:56:22,146
keep having to make tougher and tougher decisions. Thank you,

2703
02:56:22,146 --> 02:56:27,871
councilor C. McGregor, anything. Thank you. And, yeah. I didn't

2704
02:56:27,871 --> 02:56:31,391
have pages of follow up comments out after this, but

2705
02:56:31,391 --> 02:56:33,471
I do want to pull one little piece out of

2706
02:56:33,471 --> 02:56:38,857
this, and it's actually. In our report of 18 a

2707
02:56:38,857 --> 02:56:42,017
that is coming next, the core detailed asset management plan.

2708
02:56:43,381 --> 02:56:47,028
And it states in there that. Challenges for the asset

2709
02:56:47,028 --> 02:56:50,712
management plan. One of the challenges. Input from the public

2710
02:56:50,712 --> 02:56:54,112
will strive to include public input to ensure chatim Kent

2711
02:56:54,112 --> 02:56:58,912
is responsive to community needs, and under continuous improvements, it

2712
02:56:58,912 --> 02:57:03,992
says, improve public trust, demonstrating improvement and responsiveness builds public

2713
02:57:03,992 --> 02:57:09,623
confidence in how service decisions are made and justified. So

2714
02:57:09,623 --> 02:57:17,190
I'll leave it with that. And hopefully. That will. With

2715
02:57:17,190 --> 02:57:23,733
that. Put it to vote. Councilor Rondi. Yes. And councilor

2716
02:57:23,733 --> 02:57:30,289
b. Mcgregor. Yes. All votes are in motion. Passes 17

2717
02:57:30,289 --> 02:57:30,609
to zero.

2718
02:57:44,150 --> 02:57:51,164
Item 17, development services. 17 eight Chatham Ken Community Improvement

2719
02:57:51,164 --> 02:57:55,644
plan property tax increment equivalent grant for 100 King Street

2720
02:57:55,644 --> 02:58:00,523
Holdings, Inc. Councilor story and councilor juvenile, can you put

2721
02:58:00,523 --> 02:58:05,596
this in the floor, please? Certainly so moved. And seconded

2722
02:58:05,596 --> 02:58:09,556
councilor story and then councilor Junville. Thank you, mayor. Cannoff.

2723
02:58:09,556 --> 02:58:12,916
I just had a couple of questions. Certainly this property

2724
02:58:12,916 --> 02:58:16,236
has a strong public interest. And I did get some

2725
02:58:16,236 --> 02:58:20,315
questions from constituents. So these are questions. Coming to me

2726
02:58:20,315 --> 02:58:26,258
from the community. Certainly. Very interested and excited to see

2727
02:58:26,258 --> 02:58:30,740
what's happening at the downtown Chatham center. I think the

2728
02:58:30,740 --> 02:58:34,620
investment by the private developers who own the site is

2729
02:58:34,620 --> 02:58:40,357
to be commended. And certainly welcome their investment to improve

2730
02:58:40,357 --> 02:58:44,451
that part of downtown 100%. I think there's a couple

2731
02:58:44,451 --> 02:58:48,754
of questions that there might be. Some information at public

2732
02:58:48,754 --> 02:58:52,034
that is not accurate as to what this actually means.

2733
02:58:52,034 --> 02:58:53,874
So I have some questions that came in from the

2734
02:58:53,874 --> 02:58:56,634
public that might help clear some of that up. Just

2735
02:58:56,634 --> 02:59:01,191
to give you a bit of background. So. Any business.

2736
02:59:01,191 --> 02:59:04,471
Is it correct that any business owner who owns a

2737
02:59:04,471 --> 02:59:07,511
brick and mortar building in Chatham can apply for the

2738
02:59:07,511 --> 02:59:12,471
CIP and for tax relief. And is that always 100%

2739
02:59:12,471 --> 02:59:15,671
tax relief? And always for ten years, or are there

2740
02:59:15,671 --> 02:59:21,014
other options within that framework? Thank you, worship. Ruth McAllister,

2741
02:59:21,014 --> 02:59:27,880
general manager, development services. Again. I'll start with answering some

2742
02:59:27,880 --> 02:59:31,360
of these programs. I think I can address most, but

2743
02:59:31,360 --> 02:59:34,280
I may rely on some other members of staff here

2744
02:59:34,280 --> 02:59:38,975
as well. But to this particular question, yes, the CIP

2745
02:59:38,975 --> 02:59:42,655
program is certainly open to everyone, and there are several

2746
02:59:42,655 --> 02:59:46,255
programs offered within our CIP. We're specifically talking about the

2747
02:59:46,255 --> 02:59:52,784
property tax. Program tonight. Some incentives within the program are

2748
02:59:52,784 --> 02:59:58,175
limited to the type of use that's being proposed. And

2749
02:59:58,175 --> 03:00:01,837
sometimes it's based on location as well. So some of

2750
03:00:01,837 --> 03:00:04,957
the programs only apply to our defined downtown areas. For

2751
03:00:04,957 --> 03:00:09,549
instance is one example. And not all projects are eligible

2752
03:00:09,549 --> 03:00:11,909
for ten years. That was actually amended a couple of

2753
03:00:11,909 --> 03:00:15,669
years ago. Based on the first iteration of our CIP

2754
03:00:15,669 --> 03:00:19,693
from 2020. So some are now limited to five, depending

2755
03:00:19,693 --> 03:00:25,957
on. What is the estimated eligible cost or construction value?

2756
03:00:27,214 --> 03:00:32,901
And by project type, for instance, as well. Thanks, Bruce.

2757
03:00:32,901 --> 03:00:36,757
Okay. I appreciate that. Additional information. I know I've seen

2758
03:00:36,757 --> 03:00:39,557
the report that the CIP was put into place to

2759
03:00:39,557 --> 03:00:43,237
target investment in rental and affordable housing, commercial business growth

2760
03:00:43,237 --> 03:00:47,723
and employment growth. Does that include market rate rentals? And

2761
03:00:47,723 --> 03:00:50,163
do we know if there are any rental or affordable

2762
03:00:50,163 --> 03:00:54,175
housing units being planned for this site. Thank you, you,

2763
03:00:54,175 --> 03:01:01,582
worship. So the CIP does still offer incentives for apartment

2764
03:01:01,582 --> 03:01:06,330
dwellings at market rate. That was changed. To. It's ten

2765
03:01:06,330 --> 03:01:10,490
years, but it's now 70%. A year is rebated. Back

2766
03:01:10,490 --> 03:01:14,718
versus 100% in the previous iteration of the program. And

2767
03:01:14,718 --> 03:01:19,716
by apartments. Those are apartments. Over 50 dwelling units. And

2768
03:01:19,716 --> 03:01:22,956
affordable dwelling unit. Affordable housing is incented up to ten

2769
03:01:22,956 --> 03:01:26,516
years now as well, and that can be anything. Five

2770
03:01:26,516 --> 03:01:34,035
units. Or more. In this particular. There's not a residential

2771
03:01:34,035 --> 03:01:36,878
component. In this phase of the development we're talking about

2772
03:01:36,878 --> 03:01:42,263
here tonight. It's all commercial or employment type uses. Okay.

2773
03:01:42,263 --> 03:01:46,502
Thank you. Can you expand a little bit? On. What

2774
03:01:46,502 --> 03:01:51,279
commercial and major employment type use is. Is that new

2775
03:01:51,279 --> 03:01:54,239
businesses going in or existing businesses moving from elsewhere in

2776
03:01:54,239 --> 03:01:58,348
the community or what? That looks like. Thank you. Yes,

2777
03:01:58,348 --> 03:02:01,588
thank you. So those terms are all defined within the

2778
03:02:01,588 --> 03:02:08,490
community improvement program specifically. So commercial uses. Are the use

2779
03:02:08,490 --> 03:02:10,970
of land, building or structure for a purpose of buying

2780
03:02:10,970 --> 03:02:16,094
or selling commodities, essentially, or supplying. Of services is distinguished

2781
03:02:16,094 --> 03:02:21,399
from employment uses, which can mean. Generally industrial uses, but

2782
03:02:21,399 --> 03:02:25,919
also means offices, business support services, call centers, scientific research

2783
03:02:25,919 --> 03:02:30,239
facilities, warehouses or other types of similar uses. So in

2784
03:02:30,239 --> 03:02:35,068
this case, it's a combination of both. In a major

2785
03:02:35,068 --> 03:02:40,459
project. As defined as anything. With over $10 million worth

2786
03:02:40,459 --> 03:02:45,425
of eligible costs or estimated construction value. And that's the

2787
03:02:45,425 --> 03:02:48,781
requirement up front on our application. That the applicant provide

2788
03:02:48,781 --> 03:02:51,861
us with what their estimated eligible costs are, they have

2789
03:02:51,861 --> 03:02:54,261
to do the same. For any building permits as well,

2790
03:02:54,261 --> 03:02:55,981
because that's what the building permit fee is based on.

2791
03:02:57,965 --> 03:03:00,925
Okay. And so that doesn't come into play until after.

2792
03:03:02,438 --> 03:03:05,876
They're finished. Building. The building like renovations of the site.

2793
03:03:07,437 --> 03:03:09,797
I think I'm a little curious. Maybe. Perhaps not clear

2794
03:03:09,797 --> 03:03:13,117
in the timeline why we would. Be approving this now

2795
03:03:13,117 --> 03:03:18,167
versus when they are finished. So thank you, you, worship.

2796
03:03:20,126 --> 03:03:22,806
No grants are paid out until after all projects are

2797
03:03:22,806 --> 03:03:25,246
finished, just to be clear on that. So we're really

2798
03:03:25,246 --> 03:03:30,366
talking about eligibility. We issue eligibility letters saying based on

2799
03:03:30,366 --> 03:03:33,966
what you provided, you to be eligible for this. The

2800
03:03:33,966 --> 03:03:36,326
property tax grant is the one program that does come

2801
03:03:36,326 --> 03:03:38,606
to council for approval. That's defined. There's other ones that

2802
03:03:38,606 --> 03:03:42,009
are smaller grants. That have been delegated to council, like

2803
03:03:42,009 --> 03:03:49,027
facades or building and planning. Building fee rebate. Incentives as

2804
03:03:49,027 --> 03:03:55,445
well. So this is basically the applicant. Has given you

2805
03:03:55,445 --> 03:03:59,005
notice that once they're finished the project, they will be

2806
03:03:59,005 --> 03:04:03,169
applying for this. No. Sorry. Maybe just for further clarification,

2807
03:04:03,169 --> 03:04:07,249
your worship. So they are applying for the CIP. Eligibility.

2808
03:04:07,249 --> 03:04:10,409
We're asking council to endorse that if they meet all

2809
03:04:10,409 --> 03:04:16,278
the thresholds. Finish the project work within two years. That's.

2810
03:04:18,014 --> 03:04:21,638
One of. The stipulations in the CIP from the time

2811
03:04:21,638 --> 03:04:25,696
of this approval tonight. That has to be completed within

2812
03:04:25,696 --> 03:04:33,143
two years. And then. Impact will reassess. Based on the

2813
03:04:33,143 --> 03:04:37,890
construction that's happened. Potentially. We assume it will go up

2814
03:04:37,890 --> 03:04:42,144
to some extent. And if they meet all those requirements,

2815
03:04:42,144 --> 03:04:47,022
they would be eligible. Every year a proponent pays all

2816
03:04:47,022 --> 03:04:51,074
their taxes. If they meet other requirements after that first

2817
03:04:51,074 --> 03:04:53,794
year, we'll rebate back. Just the incremental. Portion of the

2818
03:04:53,794 --> 03:04:59,542
municipal taxes. So for clarity, for everyone. Everyone does pay

2819
03:04:59,542 --> 03:05:02,702
their current base tax, so whatever the mall is paying

2820
03:05:02,702 --> 03:05:05,342
now will continue to pay. This is really just a

2821
03:05:05,342 --> 03:05:08,022
matter. If there's an increase in assessment, they would get

2822
03:05:08,022 --> 03:05:12,142
that. Rebate over the ten years after impact reassessments. Thanks,

2823
03:05:12,142 --> 03:05:15,869
Bruce. So they're applying now to. Have that come into

2824
03:05:15,869 --> 03:05:21,625
play when they're finished. Ideally, if they finish the building

2825
03:05:21,625 --> 03:05:26,522
in the next two years. Correct. Okay. And also, to

2826
03:05:26,522 --> 03:05:32,148
be clear, they are paying taxes now. But if the

2827
03:05:32,148 --> 03:05:34,748
value of the property goes up, which I'm sure it

2828
03:05:34,748 --> 03:05:37,628
will, because they are investing clearly a substantial amount to

2829
03:05:37,628 --> 03:05:40,873
improve it. If the value of the building goes out

2830
03:05:40,873 --> 03:05:45,470
or the property goes up. The difference of that will

2831
03:05:45,470 --> 03:05:49,744
be the relief they receive. They will still be paying

2832
03:05:49,744 --> 03:05:52,904
taxes the entire time. Thank you, worship. That is correct.

2833
03:05:52,904 --> 03:05:56,745
And that's. Really? What a Cip is designed to do

2834
03:05:56,745 --> 03:06:02,269
in this fashion is to incent somebody, to reinvest. Especially

2835
03:06:02,269 --> 03:06:06,208
in the downtown cores. And the tax break is really.

2836
03:06:07,298 --> 03:06:11,153
On that level of reinvestment that. They would be reassessed

2837
03:06:11,153 --> 03:06:15,803
going forward, so it's too early to say. How many

2838
03:06:15,803 --> 03:06:22,388
tax dollars would be provided. Yes. At this point, we

2839
03:06:22,388 --> 03:06:25,468
don't know that for sure. Until impact as a reassessment.

2840
03:06:25,468 --> 03:06:29,909
Okay. And does that part come back to council? No,

2841
03:06:29,909 --> 03:06:31,909
we generally don't come back to council after the fact.

2842
03:06:33,140 --> 03:06:36,140
Councilor storage. You have a lot, Mark. I've given you

2843
03:06:36,140 --> 03:06:39,700
some leniency. Given? That there's questions and answers. Sure. No,

2844
03:06:39,700 --> 03:06:42,620
I appreciate that leniency, Mr. Mayor. And I think that

2845
03:06:42,620 --> 03:06:45,180
wraps up my question. There's just some misinformation, I think.

2846
03:06:45,180 --> 03:06:46,740
In the public, so I wanted to be clear on

2847
03:06:46,740 --> 03:06:49,100
what some of that looked like. So thank you for

2848
03:06:49,100 --> 03:06:54,002
your flexibility on that. Thank you, Bruce. Mr. Duba. Yeah.

2849
03:06:54,002 --> 03:06:55,922
So just on the last question about does that come

2850
03:06:55,922 --> 03:06:58,802
back to council? Mr. McAllister is right that it doesn't

2851
03:06:58,802 --> 03:07:01,522
come back to council specifically on that piece. Of property,

2852
03:07:01,522 --> 03:07:04,162
because by then it's too late. But what I would

2853
03:07:04,162 --> 03:07:07,722
anticipate is staff would give updates on the success of

2854
03:07:07,722 --> 03:07:10,412
the Cip. We can't really do that now because of

2855
03:07:10,412 --> 03:07:13,292
the fact that the province hasn't. Done their impact reassessment,

2856
03:07:13,292 --> 03:07:16,185
so. It wouldn't be very valid, but I'm hoping that

2857
03:07:16,185 --> 03:07:18,745
in about ten years time, which is when some of

2858
03:07:18,745 --> 03:07:25,251
these buildings that came online. 2019 2021 this property, we

2859
03:07:25,251 --> 03:07:30,521
will be able to assess how. Much investment has occurred

2860
03:07:30,521 --> 03:07:33,441
and how much increase in property values has occurred because

2861
03:07:33,441 --> 03:07:36,721
of our CIP. Plan so councils in the future will

2862
03:07:36,721 --> 03:07:38,761
get a far better idea of how successful this is.

2863
03:07:38,761 --> 03:07:40,801
We know it's going to be successful. We just don't

2864
03:07:40,801 --> 03:07:42,961
have a number to give. You. So this property and

2865
03:07:42,961 --> 03:07:45,761
all the properties that you approve will come forward at

2866
03:07:45,761 --> 03:07:47,681
some point once. We're in a position to give you

2867
03:07:47,681 --> 03:07:50,831
updates. On the impact it's had on taxes. We won't

2868
03:07:50,831 --> 03:07:53,231
know that in the case. Well, five year ones we

2869
03:07:53,231 --> 03:07:55,431
could probably do soon, but the ten year ones we

2870
03:07:55,431 --> 03:07:57,031
wouldn't. Be able to do in. Ten years of it

2871
03:07:57,031 --> 03:08:01,285
have passed and I won't be here. A lot of

2872
03:08:01,285 --> 03:08:09,536
us won't be. Councilor Judenville. Thank you, Mayor Cannif. Councilor

2873
03:08:09,536 --> 03:08:12,518
story asked most of my questions. I just want to

2874
03:08:12,518 --> 03:08:17,918
confirm so I understand. So. It references $16 million project.

2875
03:08:19,159 --> 03:08:21,839
So is that just being attributed to a portion of

2876
03:08:21,839 --> 03:08:30,356
what they are doing? This tax. Grant is just based

2877
03:08:30,356 --> 03:08:35,698
on the $16 million. Am I understanding that correctly? Thank

2878
03:08:35,698 --> 03:08:40,512
you, your worship. The tax grant is based on, so

2879
03:08:40,512 --> 03:08:46,263
a project is defined. If you're investing more than $10

2880
03:08:46,263 --> 03:08:49,943
million on a project like this, you are eligible. To

2881
03:08:49,943 --> 03:08:56,709
receive the property tax increment grant. So. Their current construction

2882
03:08:56,709 --> 03:08:58,752
value. In this phase of work they're doing now. They've

2883
03:08:58,752 --> 03:09:01,432
given us the 16 million. So they're $6 million ahead

2884
03:09:01,432 --> 03:09:04,510
of. That's a big investment, right? Into this project, so

2885
03:09:04,510 --> 03:09:07,550
that's why they're eligible for the ten years. Okay, so.

2886
03:09:07,550 --> 03:09:11,185
It's not really designated to anything specifically. It's just kind

2887
03:09:11,185 --> 03:09:16,555
of a blanket amount. Would you say? The tax rate

2888
03:09:16,555 --> 03:09:19,995
will be rebated. It's $16 million, is what I'm referring

2889
03:09:19,995 --> 03:09:22,755
to? Oh, the 60 million is a construction estimate provided

2890
03:09:22,755 --> 03:09:25,715
by them of the work they're doing okay. And does

2891
03:09:25,715 --> 03:09:27,515
it have anything to do with the garage at all,

2892
03:09:27,515 --> 03:09:33,235
or. Is it just. On. The building. The works that

2893
03:09:33,235 --> 03:09:36,035
they're doing for the tax grant. They are doing some

2894
03:09:36,035 --> 03:09:39,755
work on the garage. Most of the work that they're

2895
03:09:39,755 --> 03:09:42,755
doing is on the facade on King street. Frankly, it

2896
03:09:42,755 --> 03:09:45,635
also includes a new elevator work they've done. It includes

2897
03:09:45,635 --> 03:09:49,235
the new escalator they'll be putting in just some examples

2898
03:09:49,235 --> 03:09:52,635
of all the construction work that's going on. There. Okay.

2899
03:09:52,635 --> 03:09:55,911
All right. That's all I have. Thank you. Okay. See?

2900
03:09:55,911 --> 03:09:59,630
No other questions. We'll put it to vote. Councilor Bondi.

2901
03:10:04,771 --> 03:10:08,707
And councilor b. Mcgregor. All votes are in motion. Passes

2902
03:10:08,707 --> 03:10:16,820
17 to zero. 17 B application for zoning bylaw amendment.

2903
03:10:21,250 --> 03:10:25,410
650 Park street community of Dresden, North Kent. Councilor juvenile

2904
03:10:25,410 --> 03:10:27,010
and councilor Wright and I get you puts on the

2905
03:10:27,010 --> 03:10:30,210
floor, please. I so move. I'll second it. Thank you,

2906
03:10:30,210 --> 03:10:32,450
councilor. Juvenile. Go ahead. Yeah, I just have a few

2907
03:10:32,450 --> 03:10:35,467
questions. I know it's in the report, but just for

2908
03:10:35,467 --> 03:10:37,947
clarity, because there's a lot of people concerned about this.

2909
03:10:39,796 --> 03:10:44,074
The zoning. That we want to change to, it would

2910
03:10:44,074 --> 03:10:48,549
still allow. For a senior citizens or assisted a living

2911
03:10:48,549 --> 03:10:53,756
retirement home. To still occupy that location if that was

2912
03:10:53,756 --> 03:10:58,953
the decision of the applicant. Thank you, Mayor Canif. Yes.

2913
03:10:58,953 --> 03:11:02,233
The proposed medium density residential zoning still provides for a

2914
03:11:02,233 --> 03:11:07,346
retirement home. Okay. I went to the meeting, I saw

2915
03:11:07,346 --> 03:11:09,946
a copy of the plans, and on it it did

2916
03:11:09,946 --> 03:11:19,735
say. Affordable. Apartment

2917
03:11:19,735 --> 03:11:23,055
conversion from senior residents. So that is making a lot

2918
03:11:23,055 --> 03:11:26,735
of people thinking that this is going to become affordable

2919
03:11:26,735 --> 03:11:32,990
housing. So is it going to be affordable housing? Thank

2920
03:11:32,990 --> 03:11:35,910
you, Mayor Cannon. I did not attend the meeting, but

2921
03:11:35,910 --> 03:11:38,150
one of the planning staff did understand. You were there

2922
03:11:38,150 --> 03:11:40,950
as well, councilor, and I have read the summary. I

2923
03:11:40,950 --> 03:11:46,658
do know that. The proposed rental units are supposed to

2924
03:11:46,658 --> 03:11:49,498
be at a market rate. There's no subsidy being applied.

2925
03:11:51,872 --> 03:11:54,712
That would define it as affordable through various government programs.

2926
03:11:54,712 --> 03:11:57,872
So this should be considered market apartment, okay? So we

2927
03:11:57,872 --> 03:12:00,672
would have knowledge if it was going to be designated

2928
03:12:00,672 --> 03:12:04,112
as affordable housing, is that correct? Yes. Okay.

2929
03:12:11,789 --> 03:12:14,509
So if something happened tonight and this was voted down,

2930
03:12:16,134 --> 03:12:18,254
What are some things that could happen if this was

2931
03:12:18,254 --> 03:12:27,216
voted down? Under the planning act process. If this was

2932
03:12:27,216 --> 03:12:30,776
voted down, the property would remain in the institutional zone.

2933
03:12:32,107 --> 03:12:35,707
The owner of the property would be afforded appeal rights

2934
03:12:35,707 --> 03:12:41,211
to move. This application to the Ontario Land Tribunal. And

2935
03:12:41,211 --> 03:12:44,651
the impact on the community of Dresden would be that

2936
03:12:44,651 --> 03:12:49,211
this building would likely sit vacant for a longer period

2937
03:12:49,211 --> 03:12:53,605
of time until a new proposed use, perhaps. Could be

2938
03:12:53,605 --> 03:12:55,205
proposed for that site and come back to council in

2939
03:12:55,205 --> 03:12:59,891
the future. Okay. So many people have reached out to

2940
03:12:59,891 --> 03:13:04,334
me with concerns about this because. They feel the owner,

2941
03:13:04,334 --> 03:13:07,734
the new owner is the previous owner. They have concerns.

2942
03:13:09,716 --> 03:13:14,731
About a lot of things that have happened. And. They're

2943
03:13:14,731 --> 03:13:18,086
just very concerned about what happened. When it was previously

2944
03:13:18,086 --> 03:13:23,807
park street. The senior residents what will happen? If the

2945
03:13:23,807 --> 03:13:26,847
owner continues on with conducting his business the same way.

2946
03:13:29,612 --> 03:13:32,212
It says that the apartments, there's going to be like

2947
03:13:32,212 --> 03:13:40,553
40 apartments, but they're not sure how and. Do we

2948
03:13:40,553 --> 03:13:43,153
have any governance over how they would construct these apartments?

2949
03:13:43,153 --> 03:13:49,145
Because right now. They were homes, rooms. For the retirement

2950
03:13:49,145 --> 03:13:52,505
residents. But now, if they become apartments, I would assume

2951
03:13:52,505 --> 03:13:55,305
they would have to have like a kitchen and a

2952
03:13:55,305 --> 03:14:00,069
bathroom in each unit. Do we know? How these rooms

2953
03:14:00,069 --> 03:14:02,789
are going to be set up as apartments, or do

2954
03:14:02,789 --> 03:14:07,718
we have any authority over that. The authority over how

2955
03:14:07,718 --> 03:14:10,358
they are set up is ultimately guided by the Ontario

2956
03:14:10,358 --> 03:14:13,958
building code, so provided the owner provides drawings by a

2957
03:14:13,958 --> 03:14:17,598
qualified person that meet the legislation of the province, then

2958
03:14:17,598 --> 03:14:20,598
those would be approved and inspected throughout the duration of

2959
03:14:20,598 --> 03:14:26,519
the project by municipal building services staff, okay? That's all

2960
03:14:26,519 --> 03:14:32,435
the questions I have. Thank you. Seeing. No other questions,

2961
03:14:32,435 --> 03:14:38,790
we'll put it to vote. Councilor b. Mcgregor. Yes. And

2962
03:14:38,790 --> 03:14:44,174
councilor Bondi. No. All votes are in motion. Passes 14

2963
03:14:44,174 --> 03:14:44,374
to two.

2964
03:14:54,451 --> 03:15:02,032
Item 18, infrastructure and engineering services. At and a consolidated

2965
03:15:02,032 --> 03:15:06,592
non core detailed asset management plans 2025. Councilor C. McGregor

2966
03:15:06,592 --> 03:15:15,330
and Councilor Anderson, the four, please. Sure. Yes, I'll second.

2967
03:15:15,330 --> 03:15:18,170
All right, I got four speakers to start. Councilor c.

2968
03:15:18,170 --> 03:15:22,890
McGregor followed. By councilor Anderson, councilor Harrigan and councilor Sakoch,

2969
03:15:22,890 --> 03:15:26,364
councilor C. McGregor. I have to pull up the report

2970
03:15:26,364 --> 03:15:29,044
first. Sorry. Hold on. If you want to, go ahead.

2971
03:15:33,827 --> 03:15:36,707
It's nothing like my last motion. If you want and

2972
03:15:36,707 --> 03:15:40,403
move beyond me and come back. On this, okay? It

2973
03:15:40,403 --> 03:15:46,123
was just comments, Councilor Anderson, followed by councilor Harrigan. Sure.

2974
03:15:46,123 --> 03:15:50,319
Thank you for this report. My only question was just

2975
03:15:50,319 --> 03:15:55,425
strictly clarity. That this report was not suggesting anything, that

2976
03:15:55,425 --> 03:15:57,465
this was just bring us to the next level, that

2977
03:15:57,465 --> 03:15:59,745
then suggestions will be brought forward for decisions to be

2978
03:15:59,745 --> 03:16:03,316
made correct. Thank you for the question through Mr. Mayor.

2979
03:16:03,316 --> 03:16:07,408
Yes, that is correct. You are going to approve the

2980
03:16:07,408 --> 03:16:10,128
proposed levels of service, as the consultant had said here

2981
03:16:10,128 --> 03:16:14,768
before, but it will require us to go back and

2982
03:16:14,768 --> 03:16:17,448
look at the creation of the long term financial plan.

2983
03:16:17,448 --> 03:16:20,488
Which will connect your budget processes to the asset management

2984
03:16:20,488 --> 03:16:23,448
plans. So you know when you're investing what levels of

2985
03:16:23,448 --> 03:16:25,488
service you're able to sustain over the long period of

2986
03:16:25,488 --> 03:16:28,996
time. Which was in the April 20 eigth report and

2987
03:16:28,996 --> 03:16:31,676
will be completed in 20 27 28 in time for

2988
03:16:31,676 --> 03:16:35,076
the next multi year budget. Thank you. And I just

2989
03:16:35,076 --> 03:16:37,836
wanted to clarify for the public because I've had lots

2990
03:16:37,836 --> 03:16:40,116
of questions about this with this report coming out. Obviously,

2991
03:16:40,116 --> 03:16:44,064
people got a little bit worried about it, but. I

2992
03:16:44,064 --> 03:16:45,784
want to say, as far as transparency goes into this

2993
03:16:45,784 --> 03:16:48,144
whole process, you've come and spoken to us a couple

2994
03:16:48,144 --> 03:16:50,624
of times now, and it's very much appreciated that we've

2995
03:16:50,624 --> 03:16:53,764
been included. With each process and stage along the way.

2996
03:16:53,764 --> 03:16:55,804
And this is just another one of those stages to

2997
03:16:55,804 --> 03:16:58,044
get us to the final. So I certainly appreciate all

2998
03:16:58,044 --> 03:17:07,710
the transparency. Thank you. Thank you very much. Sorry, Councilor

2999
03:17:07,710 --> 03:17:13,750
Harrigan. Followed by councilor Sima Gregor. Thank you. Through the

3000
03:17:13,750 --> 03:17:17,390
mayor. I just. Have a few questions more to help

3001
03:17:17,390 --> 03:17:19,630
myself and members of the public kind of understand about

3002
03:17:19,630 --> 03:17:23,670
that. Asset management planning process. So can you just remind.

3003
03:17:27,151 --> 03:17:32,558
Members of the public before. I ask the questions. What

3004
03:17:32,558 --> 03:17:34,878
do you mean when we say non core assets in

3005
03:17:34,878 --> 03:17:38,198
the non core asset management plan, sure. Through. Mr. Mayor.

3006
03:17:38,198 --> 03:17:40,238
Thank you for the question. I know it's a bit

3007
03:17:40,238 --> 03:17:44,518
clunky. Terminology. It comes from the provincial legislation itself. In

3008
03:17:44,518 --> 03:17:47,158
the future, we'll just refer to them. As the asset

3009
03:17:47,158 --> 03:17:50,678
management plans, but to get through meeting the legislative deadlines,

3010
03:17:50,678 --> 03:17:54,578
the non cores would be. Something. Such as? So emergency

3011
03:17:54,578 --> 03:17:58,978
services. Thinking of fire, police, paramedics. It would be recreational

3012
03:17:58,978 --> 03:18:03,178
sort. Of services. So you're thinking trails, arenas, pools, those

3013
03:18:03,178 --> 03:18:08,360
sorts of things. Cultural ones, museums, libraries. We're talking also

3014
03:18:08,360 --> 03:18:11,760
RVG. We're talking public health. We're talking about. The sort

3015
03:18:11,760 --> 03:18:14,400
of things that you would think are more service based

3016
03:18:14,400 --> 03:18:17,600
and less hard infrastructure in the sense of roads and

3017
03:18:17,600 --> 03:18:21,496
pipes in the ground. And then in the report, the

3018
03:18:21,496 --> 03:18:25,319
damp. That we have it outlines kind of like what

3019
03:18:25,319 --> 03:18:28,399
that gap is, right, in terms of the asset. Management

3020
03:18:28,399 --> 03:18:31,839
plan, would you say that we are in? So that's

3021
03:18:31,839 --> 03:18:33,159
sometimes when you look at that it can be very

3022
03:18:33,159 --> 03:18:34,839
shocking when you see it for the first time. Right?

3023
03:18:34,839 --> 03:18:37,279
Like, oh, gosh. We've only have 20 something percent of

3024
03:18:37,279 --> 03:18:40,119
our stormwater that's funded or we only have 60% of

3025
03:18:40,119 --> 03:18:44,280
this as funded. Are we in good company there compared

3026
03:18:44,280 --> 03:18:46,360
to other communities across the province? Or is this something

3027
03:18:46,360 --> 03:18:48,880
that's unique to Chatham. Ken. Thank you for the question

3028
03:18:48,880 --> 03:18:53,364
through you, Mr. Mayor. Yes. This is not uncommon. I'll

3029
03:18:53,364 --> 03:18:56,044
give you a couple of examples. Toronto. When they first

3030
03:18:56,044 --> 03:19:01,684
did. Theirs was $28 billion Windsor's $2.6 million Hamilton. When

3031
03:19:01,684 --> 03:19:04,734
I did the. Core asset management plans. There. They were

3032
03:19:04,734 --> 03:19:09,295
2.5. They're now up to $5.8. Billion. It's a completely

3033
03:19:09,295 --> 03:19:13,095
common problem to have not just millions of an infrastructure

3034
03:19:13,095 --> 03:19:16,775
gap, but billions. Because this municipality is very old. It's

3035
03:19:16,775 --> 03:19:18,255
had a long time to build up a lot. Of

3036
03:19:18,255 --> 03:19:20,975
infrastructure, and it will take a long period of time

3037
03:19:20,975 --> 03:19:24,299
for us to be able to work. Our way. To

3038
03:19:24,299 --> 03:19:29,029
intergenerational equity in a sustainable place. And then last question.

3039
03:19:29,029 --> 03:19:32,869
Sometimes when we're making decisions about different asset categories, you'll

3040
03:19:32,869 --> 03:19:35,309
hear members of the public give an argument. Well, you

3041
03:19:35,309 --> 03:19:38,549
shouldn't invest in X because Y is more important, right?

3042
03:19:38,549 --> 03:19:41,349
And it could be any two things. Why is it

3043
03:19:41,349 --> 03:19:45,458
important for us to continue to invest. In various asset

3044
03:19:45,458 --> 03:19:49,138
management categories as a municipality, compared to, for example, putting

3045
03:19:49,138 --> 03:19:51,298
all of our money in gravel roads so that we

3046
03:19:51,298 --> 03:19:53,378
then turn them all into pavement in the next three

3047
03:19:53,378 --> 03:19:57,887
years. Through you. Mr. Mayor, an excellent question. So in

3048
03:19:57,887 --> 03:20:00,167
one of the recommendations in the April 20 eigth, was

3049
03:20:00,167 --> 03:20:05,760
for us. To ask the council to consider in the

3050
03:20:05,760 --> 03:20:09,320
next multi year budget to raising it from the infrastructure

3051
03:20:09,320 --> 03:20:11,800
asset management plan funding from one and a half percent

3052
03:20:11,800 --> 03:20:16,819
up. We wanted you to increase it primarily because. Throughout

3053
03:20:16,819 --> 03:20:20,059
the communities, there's vastly different needs and different desires. There's

3054
03:20:20,059 --> 03:20:23,779
different demands. People want libraries, they want parks, they want

3055
03:20:23,779 --> 03:20:26,459
to make sure that they have good trails for recreational

3056
03:20:26,459 --> 03:20:29,459
purpose. They want to make sure that fire, police and

3057
03:20:29,459 --> 03:20:32,499
paramedics have the assets necessary to respond. To their wants

3058
03:20:32,499 --> 03:20:35,339
and needs as well, too. So the idea is to

3059
03:20:35,339 --> 03:20:38,526
make sure that. When we come back. And one of

3060
03:20:38,526 --> 03:20:41,606
the recommendations in the April 28 was to have administration

3061
03:20:41,606 --> 03:20:44,006
take a look at how best to invest in that

3062
03:20:44,006 --> 03:20:48,766
plan. The increase of the asset management funding so that

3063
03:20:48,766 --> 03:20:51,926
we are creating a sustainable and equitable future. And that's

3064
03:20:51,926 --> 03:20:54,926
really challenging when you have so many diverse assets and

3065
03:20:54,926 --> 03:20:58,046
so many diverse people wants and needs. Not everybody just.

3066
03:20:58,606 --> 03:21:00,366
Wants a road. People do want to make sure that

3067
03:21:00,366 --> 03:21:02,606
RVG is taken care of or that they have good

3068
03:21:02,606 --> 03:21:05,486
trails, whether they have outdoor pools to go to. So

3069
03:21:05,486 --> 03:21:07,646
those competing needs is the best way for us to

3070
03:21:07,646 --> 03:21:10,782
look at. That investment funding and how to spread it

3071
03:21:10,782 --> 03:21:13,142
out to make sure that it's meeting the needs of

3072
03:21:13,142 --> 03:21:17,430
the community, not just today, but in the future. Great.

3073
03:21:17,430 --> 03:21:19,750
Thank you. Appreciate your patience as I asked those questions.

3074
03:21:19,750 --> 03:21:22,030
And thank you again for this report. It's very well

3075
03:21:22,030 --> 03:21:29,060
done. Councilor Senogreger, followed by councilor Scotchy. Okay, thank you

3076
03:21:29,060 --> 03:21:32,020
to the mayor. And thank you, Councilor Harrigan, because you

3077
03:21:32,020 --> 03:21:33,780
addressed a couple of the things that I had. On

3078
03:21:33,780 --> 03:21:35,660
my mind here when I was going through this. I'm

3079
03:21:35,660 --> 03:21:41,771
reading this. So this. Is actually a plan that needs

3080
03:21:41,771 --> 03:21:44,651
to be in place for the province for the 1

3081
03:21:44,651 --> 03:21:47,691
July is that correct? And that's why it is here

3082
03:21:47,691 --> 03:21:54,359
now. Unfortunately. If we were to turn this down. Tonight.

3083
03:21:56,003 --> 03:22:01,592
What happens. With this first to July date. Again. It's

3084
03:22:01,592 --> 03:22:04,192
kind of coming, I think, at the last minute before

3085
03:22:04,192 --> 03:22:08,687
it's required to. Be completed. In advance about in a

3086
03:22:08,687 --> 03:22:16,710
minute. Is this basically a prelude? To a list of

3087
03:22:16,710 --> 03:22:21,637
assets. Or infrastructure that we have that will be on

3088
03:22:21,637 --> 03:22:24,197
the chopping block that is going to then again put

3089
03:22:24,197 --> 03:22:28,277
council at each other because of what happens in different

3090
03:22:28,277 --> 03:22:33,554
communities. And what is recommended. Through you, Mr. Mayor, that's

3091
03:22:33,554 --> 03:22:36,354
an excellent question. And asset management is not in any

3092
03:22:36,354 --> 03:22:41,808
way intended. To. Pit. Need versus need or community versus

3093
03:22:41,808 --> 03:22:44,128
community? That's not the idea. We look at Chatham. Kent

3094
03:22:44,128 --> 03:22:46,688
as a whole. And we're trying to make sure that

3095
03:22:46,688 --> 03:22:48,848
one of our primary goals which is in the strategic

3096
03:22:48,848 --> 03:22:53,563
asset management policy, is to ensure equity. So the goal

3097
03:22:53,563 --> 03:22:57,099
is. Not to say one or the other. It's to

3098
03:22:57,099 --> 03:23:00,059
just have a realistic sort of approach. And say it

3099
03:23:00,059 --> 03:23:03,339
would be lovely to afford everything. We can't afford everything,

3100
03:23:03,339 --> 03:23:06,659
so how can we address these needs equitably across the

3101
03:23:06,659 --> 03:23:09,459
way, and the asset management plans are really tools and

3102
03:23:09,459 --> 03:23:13,778
hopefully. You've all read the overview document, but this is

3103
03:23:13,778 --> 03:23:16,098
a tool that counselors can also use when dealing with.

3104
03:23:17,922 --> 03:23:21,042
The province and suggesting that we need additional supports. The

3105
03:23:21,042 --> 03:23:24,402
idea behind that overview document is to provide you some

3106
03:23:24,402 --> 03:23:26,842
opportunities where you can just look at every single service

3107
03:23:26,842 --> 03:23:29,602
quickly, see what the gaps are. Where the needs are,

3108
03:23:29,602 --> 03:23:32,562
where the funding is required, so that we can not

3109
03:23:32,562 --> 03:23:35,682
only advocate for it. At higher levels, but also when

3110
03:23:35,682 --> 03:23:38,445
we're sitting around this horseshoe or when. You're discussing with

3111
03:23:38,445 --> 03:23:41,845
constituents, you have some very good evidence at your fingertips

3112
03:23:41,845 --> 03:23:44,996
to be able to have those. Frank conversations you need

3113
03:23:44,996 --> 03:23:47,876
to have with your constituents. If we don't have them,

3114
03:23:47,876 --> 03:23:51,316
if we don't have those conversations. We don't educate the

3115
03:23:51,316 --> 03:23:54,316
public on how much these things cost will just inevitably

3116
03:23:54,316 --> 03:23:56,596
have them thinking we can keep going at the pace

3117
03:23:56,596 --> 03:23:59,516
that we're going at without making sure that we're being

3118
03:23:59,516 --> 03:24:03,476
very wise and responsible, making sure we're. Funding things appropria.

3119
03:24:03,210 --> 03:24:06,480
Appropriately. And the other part is that we've extended this

3120
03:24:06,480 --> 03:24:08,480
to be a 30 year window. To be able to

3121
03:24:08,480 --> 03:24:11,480
reach sustainability because a ten year window is just an

3122
03:24:11,480 --> 03:24:14,600
impossibility. So. With a 30 year window. We hope there's

3123
03:24:14,600 --> 03:24:16,560
a little less back and forth and that there's more

3124
03:24:16,560 --> 03:24:18,840
of a cooperative approach to looking at how we can

3125
03:24:18,840 --> 03:24:23,308
solve this infrastructure gap. Problem. After our earlier reports and

3126
03:24:23,308 --> 03:24:26,188
our early conversations, it kind of feels like a cart

3127
03:24:26,188 --> 03:24:35,162
before the horse. Scenario again because. We're moving

3128
03:24:35,162 --> 03:24:39,322
or supposedly moving forward with this plan without really knowing

3129
03:24:39,322 --> 03:24:43,294
what this plan is. Going to entail. So hopefully there'll

3130
03:24:43,294 --> 03:24:47,846
be a lot further conversation that comes after this. Thank

3131
03:24:47,846 --> 03:24:54,403
you. Thanks. Councilor Scott Chief, followed by councilor story. That's

3132
03:24:54,403 --> 03:24:59,223
okay. Mary can if. I'll pass. Thanks. Councilor story. Thank

3133
03:24:59,223 --> 03:25:04,999
you, mary kenneth. Thank you again for the detailed report.

3134
03:25:04,999 --> 03:25:07,799
These have been really educational. I really appreciate the effort

3135
03:25:07,799 --> 03:25:10,945
that you and your team have put into this. Just

3136
03:25:10,945 --> 03:25:17,830
in terms of clarity. For the public. And myself as

3137
03:25:17,830 --> 03:25:26,875
well. Levels of service. Are not necessarily. Recommendation one. If

3138
03:25:26,875 --> 03:25:31,035
we adopt the proposed levels of service. Are we or.

3139
03:25:32,214 --> 03:25:36,825
Are we not? Also agreeing to a financial commitment to

3140
03:25:36,825 --> 03:25:39,825
that or the level of service merely means we are

3141
03:25:39,825 --> 03:25:45,549
approving the approach. And then the dollar amount. Amounts will

3142
03:25:45,549 --> 03:25:47,909
come later. Because I'm not quite clear in the financial

3143
03:25:47,909 --> 03:25:52,308
implications section. It doesn't attach. Okay by approving this tonight.

3144
03:25:53,859 --> 03:26:01,287
You're approving. $100,000. Of costs. Like, I just didn't see

3145
03:26:01,287 --> 03:26:03,047
that. So I just want to be clear. This is

3146
03:26:03,047 --> 03:26:06,807
the level of service. Terminology might just be more of

3147
03:26:06,807 --> 03:26:10,047
a term versus a financial commitment. Am I understanding that

3148
03:26:10,047 --> 03:26:14,817
correctly? Through you, Mr. Mayor. Great question. So when you're

3149
03:26:14,817 --> 03:26:17,217
setting a level of service which I've always said is

3150
03:26:17,217 --> 03:26:21,137
council's role and responsibility when you pass your budget. So

3151
03:26:21,137 --> 03:26:23,737
when you pass a budget, you are passing, inevitably, the

3152
03:26:23,737 --> 03:26:26,537
level of service that you're going through. What we've done

3153
03:26:26,537 --> 03:26:30,479
in our plans here is to propose that. We're not

3154
03:26:30,479 --> 03:26:33,559
veering off anything. We're not suggesting you're cutting anything. We're

3155
03:26:33,559 --> 03:26:36,199
not suggesting you're adding anything inside of this level of

3156
03:26:36,199 --> 03:26:38,599
service. It's. Just that we're going to maintain what we

3157
03:26:38,599 --> 03:26:41,119
currently have, and as the consultant had said it could

3158
03:26:41,119 --> 03:26:44,759
be considered a condition. So we're going to maintain our

3159
03:26:44,759 --> 03:26:48,399
highways in good. Condition. Our local roads say in fair

3160
03:26:48,399 --> 03:26:52,250
condition because. That's basically what we're saying there is that

3161
03:26:52,250 --> 03:26:55,170
the level of service that you're providing is either going

3162
03:26:55,170 --> 03:26:57,570
to be condition based, it's going to be capacity based.

3163
03:26:57,570 --> 03:27:01,440
Or it's going to be function based. Okay, so when

3164
03:27:01,440 --> 03:27:05,384
you're saying this, does it impact the budget? It could

3165
03:27:05,384 --> 03:27:08,464
in the sense that five years, eight years down the

3166
03:27:08,464 --> 03:27:11,544
road, you may need to invest. More in renewals or

3167
03:27:11,544 --> 03:27:13,504
you may need to do a higher maintenance level. But

3168
03:27:13,504 --> 03:27:16,104
what we're. Seeing in here is that you're proposing that

3169
03:27:16,104 --> 03:27:18,464
you're going to maintain the current level of service that

3170
03:27:18,464 --> 03:27:21,224
you have. And there's the budget implications that are within

3171
03:27:21,224 --> 03:27:24,104
the plans that say you need x amount of dollars

3172
03:27:24,104 --> 03:27:26,901
to get there. And we've approached it from a 30

3173
03:27:26,901 --> 03:27:29,981
year window. So what we've done is one of the

3174
03:27:29,981 --> 03:27:32,621
financial measures that we use is something called an ARFR

3175
03:27:32,621 --> 03:27:35,581
asset renewal funding ratio. And that really means that we

3176
03:27:35,581 --> 03:27:38,261
have the money in place to, say, replace a fire

3177
03:27:38,261 --> 03:27:40,661
truck or. An ambulance at the time that we need

3178
03:27:40,661 --> 03:27:42,981
to do that. And so what we've done is we've

3179
03:27:42,981 --> 03:27:45,469
taken all of the plans and we've taken. What their

3180
03:27:45,469 --> 03:27:48,669
current asset renewal funding ratio is, and we've stretched it

3181
03:27:48,669 --> 03:27:51,589
out over 30 years. And we've applied a rate that

3182
03:27:51,589 --> 03:27:54,629
says you need to put aside this much money over

3183
03:27:54,629 --> 03:27:59,681
time. To be able to achieve that sustainable 90% gold

3184
03:27:59,681 --> 03:28:03,420
inside of 30 years. So what we've also suggested in

3185
03:28:03,420 --> 03:28:06,300
our April plans is that there's no real financial repercussions.

3186
03:28:07,564 --> 03:28:09,764
They can't really be known until we pass the long

3187
03:28:09,764 --> 03:28:13,152
term financial plan. That's really the driver to this. That's

3188
03:28:13,152 --> 03:28:15,792
what happened in the April 28 meeting. Is that we

3189
03:28:15,792 --> 03:28:18,312
had you pass that we asked for the recommendation to

3190
03:28:18,312 --> 03:28:20,872
be agreed to that you're going to provide us with

3191
03:28:20,872 --> 03:28:22,512
enough time to be able to do a long term

3192
03:28:22,512 --> 03:28:24,872
financial plan with Gordon, his staff, to make sure that

3193
03:28:24,872 --> 03:28:27,512
we have really good numbers for you. I don't. Know

3194
03:28:27,512 --> 03:28:29,112
if you remember, but when I first came to, I

3195
03:28:29,112 --> 03:28:31,352
said, these are baby plans. And that we're going to

3196
03:28:31,352 --> 03:28:34,129
get to really good. Plans by the 2027 timeline for

3197
03:28:34,129 --> 03:28:36,289
the multi year budget. We just need to make sure

3198
03:28:36,289 --> 03:28:40,969
that maturity through education and process and practice that staff

3199
03:28:40,969 --> 03:28:43,489
are quite comfortable with it. I think Edward might also

3200
03:28:43,489 --> 03:28:46,609
have a comment on that as well, too. Thank you.

3201
03:28:46,609 --> 03:28:49,089
Just to add to what Sean was speaking to. You

3202
03:28:49,089 --> 03:28:52,779
really have to read this report. In conjunction with the

3203
03:28:52,779 --> 03:28:56,299
April report, because in April, we came back with a

3204
03:28:56,299 --> 03:29:00,579
core asset management plans. And we had a number of

3205
03:29:00,579 --> 03:29:04,979
very detailed recommendations for the council passed at that time.

3206
03:29:04,979 --> 03:29:07,139
We did not want to repeat those recommendations because we

3207
03:29:07,139 --> 03:29:09,619
already have direction, but you have to look at those.

3208
03:29:09,619 --> 03:29:13,115
Two reports simultaneously. So this is only for the non

3209
03:29:13,115 --> 03:29:16,755
core assets. The consultant earlier about the other topic was

3210
03:29:16,755 --> 03:29:20,555
speaking about water and wastewater. You've actually approved the asset

3211
03:29:20,555 --> 03:29:24,155
management plans for water wastewater in April. So we've met

3212
03:29:24,155 --> 03:29:28,275
that timeline there. So I would just recommend councils back

3213
03:29:28,275 --> 03:29:32,457
and look at those recommendations really speaks to what. Sean

3214
03:29:32,457 --> 03:29:35,017
was talking about, which is the long term financial plan,

3215
03:29:35,017 --> 03:29:36,497
how it's going to be tied into the multi year

3216
03:29:36,497 --> 03:29:40,396
budget. Looking at a review of all the assets and

3217
03:29:40,396 --> 03:29:44,396
services to create a divestment strategy before that process, reducing

3218
03:29:44,396 --> 03:29:47,636
the infrastructure gap and also speaking to how we would

3219
03:29:47,636 --> 03:29:51,076
potentially fund this over 30 years, potentially moving from the

3220
03:29:51,076 --> 03:29:54,676
current 1.5 to two and a half percent property tax

3221
03:29:54,676 --> 03:29:57,916
equivalent. Those are all considerations that you'll take into account

3222
03:29:57,916 --> 03:30:01,462
when you do. Your multi year budget. Thank you for

3223
03:30:01,462 --> 03:30:04,662
that clarification. That's how I appreciate that. And that does

3224
03:30:04,662 --> 03:30:07,222
make sense to look at those both together. Because my

3225
03:30:07,222 --> 03:30:09,742
last question would be, is there a reason why we

3226
03:30:09,742 --> 03:30:14,436
wouldn't look at. This now. At two more years to

3227
03:30:14,436 --> 03:30:16,596
our 30 year window to give us a little more

3228
03:30:16,596 --> 03:30:19,556
grace period, because there's still work to be done. That's

3229
03:30:19,556 --> 03:30:23,356
why we're waiting to the 2028 budget round. Since we're

3230
03:30:23,356 --> 03:30:25,516
in the baby the baby plan stage, as you said.

3231
03:30:25,516 --> 03:30:28,716
Is that why we're looking at the next budget discussions,

3232
03:30:28,716 --> 03:30:32,596
to tackle that through you? Mr. Mayor? Absolutely. Same sort

3233
03:30:32,596 --> 03:30:35,144
of thing we need. To make sure that to connect

3234
03:30:35,144 --> 03:30:37,584
these to the budget process, the creation of the longtime

3235
03:30:37,584 --> 03:30:39,544
term financial plan is probably going to take about 18

3236
03:30:39,544 --> 03:30:42,224
months to do. And so that's why we've approached it

3237
03:30:42,224 --> 03:30:47,773
in this way. Thank you very much. See. No other

3238
03:30:47,773 --> 03:30:57,013
questions. We'll put it to vote. Councilor b. Mcgregor. Yes.

3239
03:30:57,013 --> 03:31:01,253
Councilor Bondi? Yes. All votes are in motion. Passes 17

3240
03:31:01,253 --> 03:31:07,002
to zero. 18 b Tolbit trail realignment councilor Anderson and

3241
03:31:07,002 --> 03:31:11,897
councilor Harrigan. Can I get the floor, please? Yes, and

3242
03:31:11,897 --> 03:31:15,457
seconded. Councilor Anderson, you had a question? Yeah, thank you.

3243
03:31:15,457 --> 03:31:19,097
I just wanted to. Get a little bit of clarification.

3244
03:31:20,378 --> 03:31:22,178
Kind of like the backstory of where we're at on

3245
03:31:22,178 --> 03:31:24,378
this, and I appreciate the conversations I was able to

3246
03:31:24,378 --> 03:31:28,700
have with Edward today. And I understand that the consultant.

3247
03:31:30,173 --> 03:31:33,173
That the consultants here tonight? Yes. Thank you. Could you

3248
03:31:33,173 --> 03:31:36,093
just give me a backstory of what? Is taking place

3249
03:31:36,093 --> 03:31:40,120
and what the delay is. And that we are still

3250
03:31:40,120 --> 03:31:43,681
obviously wanting to go forward with this recommendation. Thank you,

3251
03:31:43,681 --> 03:31:49,855
Mary Kanif Margaret. Manager of engineering. I'll start, maybe just

3252
03:31:49,855 --> 03:31:51,895
with a quick background, and then I'll introduce Adrian as.

3253
03:31:51,895 --> 03:31:56,071
Well. As I'm sure all of you are aware, we

3254
03:31:56,071 --> 03:32:00,391
started with the EA and the EA. Addendum. As part

3255
03:32:00,391 --> 03:32:03,591
of that EA process, we were required to do a

3256
03:32:03,591 --> 03:32:07,729
stage one archaeological assessment. So that was completed through the

3257
03:32:07,729 --> 03:32:14,578
EA. So stage one. Essentially kind of determines if there's

3258
03:32:14,578 --> 03:32:17,658
a potential for archaeological sites to be within the project.

3259
03:32:17,658 --> 03:32:20,977
Area. And if there are, then it recommends stage two.

3260
03:32:23,366 --> 03:32:27,889
So. The stage two. As we knew that through the

3261
03:32:27,889 --> 03:32:31,449
EA process, we incorporated that into our detailed design. RFP

3262
03:32:31,449 --> 03:32:36,216
with the consultant. So we completed that. That started. In

3263
03:32:36,216 --> 03:32:41,441
December of 2024. We got through the stage two, and

3264
03:32:41,441 --> 03:32:44,001
it was determined that the findings in the stage two

3265
03:32:44,001 --> 03:32:49,396
were significant enough to trigger stage three. So that's where,

3266
03:32:49,396 --> 03:32:52,436
at that point, we kind of got into working with

3267
03:32:52,436 --> 03:32:57,177
Acom. To follow through with stage three and then potentially

3268
03:32:57,177 --> 03:32:59,817
the stage four at that time, as we didn't know

3269
03:32:59,817 --> 03:33:04,887
the extent of it. So. Yes, Adri is here with

3270
03:33:04,887 --> 03:33:08,800
Acom. So she can probably answer your questions on the

3271
03:33:08,800 --> 03:33:12,596
archaeological assessment in the process. A lot easier and probably

3272
03:33:12,596 --> 03:33:16,498
kind of explain. The findings and where we're at this

3273
03:33:16,498 --> 03:33:18,858
point and kind of the steps forward. So she has

3274
03:33:18,858 --> 03:33:21,058
a few slides. I think that probably kind of sum

3275
03:33:21,058 --> 03:33:23,378
up a lot of that. So I'll hand it over

3276
03:33:23,378 --> 03:33:29,765
to her. Thanks, Mark. So I'm major at Grant. I'm

3277
03:33:29,765 --> 03:33:34,565
the technical lead for cultural resources at ACOM. Thank you

3278
03:33:34,565 --> 03:33:36,685
for that. So I just pulled together a few brief

3279
03:33:36,685 --> 03:33:38,765
slides, kind of just a little bit of background on

3280
03:33:38,765 --> 03:33:41,285
the process. And then specific to this project is to

3281
03:33:41,285 --> 03:33:43,885
help everybody understand so we can go to the next

3282
03:33:43,885 --> 03:33:49,426
one. So, archaeology in Ontario. This is run through the

3283
03:33:49,426 --> 03:33:53,666
heritage branch at the Ministry of citizenship and multiculturalism that

3284
03:33:53,666 --> 03:33:57,386
is the ministry that governs everything. They license the archaeologists

3285
03:33:57,386 --> 03:34:01,146
and they've created. The standards and guidelines for consultant archaeologists,

3286
03:34:01,146 --> 03:34:05,946
which is the primary document that really governs the entire

3287
03:34:05,946 --> 03:34:09,207
process. It is a four stage process. So the stage

3288
03:34:09,207 --> 03:34:12,167
one, you're looking at background research, really? The point of

3289
03:34:12,167 --> 03:34:15,925
that is to decide. Is there the potential for an

3290
03:34:15,925 --> 03:34:19,565
archaeological resource to be there? You get into stage two.

3291
03:34:19,565 --> 03:34:22,405
That's. When you're doing that initial survey, seeing what you

3292
03:34:22,405 --> 03:34:25,643
find, and then based on what you find? That's when

3293
03:34:25,643 --> 03:34:28,563
it's decided whether you need to move towards the site

3294
03:34:28,563 --> 03:34:32,600
specific excavation. And the main goal of the stage three,

3295
03:34:32,600 --> 03:34:35,240
really, is to get in and figure out exactly what

3296
03:34:35,240 --> 03:34:37,840
the limits of the site are and then also get

3297
03:34:37,840 --> 03:34:40,360
a better idea through the material that you've recovered what

3298
03:34:40,360 --> 03:34:43,440
you're actually looking at. Decide whether or not it warrants

3299
03:34:43,440 --> 03:34:48,276
mitigation. So that's the stage four and the mitigation. Could

3300
03:34:48,276 --> 03:34:52,036
be deciding to avoid and protect something, or if it's

3301
03:34:52,036 --> 03:34:55,916
not feasible to do that. You move towards controlled excavation,

3302
03:34:55,916 --> 03:34:57,956
fully removing it out of the ground, but doing it

3303
03:34:57,956 --> 03:34:59,916
in such a way that all the information isn't lost.

3304
03:35:01,428 --> 03:35:03,068
You can go to the next slide. I will speak

3305
03:35:03,068 --> 03:35:04,988
as well too, to the timing of that. I think

3306
03:35:04,988 --> 03:35:08,626
Mark spoke to that a little bit. There's some flexibility

3307
03:35:08,626 --> 03:35:13,227
when you get into these different stages. With an EA,

3308
03:35:13,227 --> 03:35:16,027
it is required that you do a stage one, and

3309
03:35:16,027 --> 03:35:18,507
because it's still fairly general, and you're often looking at

3310
03:35:18,507 --> 03:35:22,587
a lot of different alternatives. Doing the stage two physical

3311
03:35:22,587 --> 03:35:25,267
survey is quite intensive and it costs a lot of

3312
03:35:25,267 --> 03:35:28,107
money and most times you don't. Want to be doing

3313
03:35:28,107 --> 03:35:30,867
that until you know exactly where you're going to impact,

3314
03:35:30,867 --> 03:35:33,581
so. That's usually. What it happens. The stage one is

3315
03:35:33,581 --> 03:35:35,981
pretty early. Once you have a really good idea of

3316
03:35:35,981 --> 03:35:38,621
where the project will impact. That's when you get into

3317
03:35:38,621 --> 03:35:40,621
the stage two. And then, of course, stage three and

3318
03:35:40,621 --> 03:35:44,009
four only follow. If you have a resource that meets

3319
03:35:44,009 --> 03:35:48,037
that criteria. And then another thing on the timing as

3320
03:35:48,037 --> 03:35:51,637
well. So it's the term and condition of the archaeologist

3321
03:35:51,637 --> 03:35:56,736
license that we engage with indigenous groups. When we're doing

3322
03:35:56,736 --> 03:36:00,376
stage three or stage four of an indigenous site. But

3323
03:36:00,376 --> 03:36:03,736
that being said, best practice and most municipalities, most major.

3324
03:36:05,825 --> 03:36:10,081
Companies and clients they are involving. Interested indigenous groups at

3325
03:36:10,081 --> 03:36:12,401
the stage two level, which I believe is what happened

3326
03:36:12,401 --> 03:36:16,734
here. And so I've just put up some criteria of

3327
03:36:16,734 --> 03:36:19,294
why you need to move in there. I think what's

3328
03:36:19,294 --> 03:36:23,254
important to note is that. Professional judgment doesn't come into

3329
03:36:23,254 --> 03:36:26,094
play at all. It is very clearly outlined in those

3330
03:36:26,094 --> 03:36:29,094
standards. And guidelines if you meet this criteria. Yes, no,

3331
03:36:29,094 --> 03:36:31,978
yes, no. So if we want to go to the

3332
03:36:31,978 --> 03:36:38,195
next slide. So this is the actual project. And what

3333
03:36:38,195 --> 03:36:40,955
happened? That I think was a surprise to everybody, but.

3334
03:36:40,955 --> 03:36:45,453
Not uncommon when it comes to archaeology. Is that after

3335
03:36:45,453 --> 03:36:49,874
the stage two. Once we started looking further and getting

3336
03:36:49,874 --> 03:36:52,074
into that stage three, we were finding a lot more

3337
03:36:52,074 --> 03:36:56,314
things. Than we anticipated. And that's just the virtue of

3338
03:36:56,314 --> 03:36:59,114
looking on the ground versus actually getting in and digging

3339
03:36:59,114 --> 03:37:03,507
and seeing what's there. So all of this jumbled mass

3340
03:37:03,507 --> 03:37:06,987
of colors just essentially shows to you that in this

3341
03:37:06,987 --> 03:37:10,815
stretch, on this project. There's a lot of archaeology going

3342
03:37:10,815 --> 03:37:12,335
on here, so if you want to go to the

3343
03:37:12,335 --> 03:37:16,490
next slide. I'll explain a little bit so you can

3344
03:37:16,490 --> 03:37:19,250
kind of understand what's going on. The purple dots here

3345
03:37:19,250 --> 03:37:27,153
are the location of. The stage two surface artifacts. And

3346
03:37:27,153 --> 03:37:30,233
the yellow line is essentially the limits of the sites

3347
03:37:30,233 --> 03:37:35,641
as it was understood. During the stage two. Now, what

3348
03:37:35,641 --> 03:37:38,721
happened is when you look at the yellow dots, so

3349
03:37:38,721 --> 03:37:41,721
when we came in, we did another surface examination. We

3350
03:37:41,721 --> 03:37:43,881
found a lot more material. And you see the sites?

3351
03:37:43,881 --> 03:37:49,497
Have expanded incredibly. Another important piece is that the types

3352
03:37:49,497 --> 03:37:52,297
of artifacts that we were finding during the stage two,

3353
03:37:52,297 --> 03:37:56,897
it was all lithic material, nondiagnostic. But when we got

3354
03:37:56,897 --> 03:38:00,937
there, we are finding indigenous. Pottery and ceramics, which is

3355
03:38:00,937 --> 03:38:03,737
a diagnostic, and it kind of opens the door to

3356
03:38:03,737 --> 03:38:05,857
a whole other set of rules so we can go

3357
03:38:05,857 --> 03:38:09,163
to the next one. This is a perfect example here.

3358
03:38:09,163 --> 03:38:12,443
So if you see that purple dot and the yellow

3359
03:38:12,443 --> 03:38:16,003
around it, this was considered one fine spot. But when

3360
03:38:16,003 --> 03:38:18,003
we get there and we see all of this other

3361
03:38:18,003 --> 03:38:25,288
material there. There's clearly a lot more going on. So

3362
03:38:25,288 --> 03:38:27,622
we can go to the next one. This is an

3363
03:38:27,622 --> 03:38:29,662
example. You can't see the numbers, so this was our

3364
03:38:29,662 --> 03:38:33,262
stage three each. Of those squares represent an actual 1

3365
03:38:33,262 --> 03:38:36,062
meter by 1 meter excavation unit in the plow zone.

3366
03:38:36,062 --> 03:38:39,062
Of the agricultural field. So we go down through that

3367
03:38:39,062 --> 03:38:43,386
whole plow zone. And then we have to essentially chase

3368
03:38:43,386 --> 03:38:46,586
the artifacts. We keep going until we get less than

3369
03:38:46,586 --> 03:38:52,182
ten. Or certain special things. And what happened here is

3370
03:38:52,182 --> 03:38:53,782
you can kind of see is it just kind of

3371
03:38:53,782 --> 03:38:58,743
kept going. We can go to the next one. Similar

3372
03:38:58,743 --> 03:39:01,063
to this one. You see the yellow line of where

3373
03:39:01,063 --> 03:39:05,901
the site was thought to be. Did need to extend

3374
03:39:05,901 --> 03:39:09,251
it out a little bit further. Go to the next

3375
03:39:09,251 --> 03:39:15,525
one. This site. Is, and we've done a lot more

3376
03:39:15,525 --> 03:39:18,765
here because this is where we are focusing because we

3377
03:39:18,765 --> 03:39:21,525
know that it needs stage four because this is in

3378
03:39:21,525 --> 03:39:24,925
a wooded area, if not in the plow field because

3379
03:39:24,925 --> 03:39:28,765
we have features. It is empottery. It is a woodland

3380
03:39:28,765 --> 03:39:32,165
time period. Site, which means, and it could potentially be

3381
03:39:32,165 --> 03:39:35,883
intact. And what I mean by that. Is that the

3382
03:39:35,883 --> 03:39:39,652
plows hasn't smeared it around. So it has to be

3383
03:39:39,652 --> 03:39:42,532
done completely by hand. That's our only option. Whereas with

3384
03:39:42,532 --> 03:39:44,572
some. Of the other sites. We do have the option

3385
03:39:44,572 --> 03:39:48,452
of a combination of hand excavation and also mechanical like

3386
03:39:48,452 --> 03:39:51,323
using a machine. So we can go to the next

3387
03:39:51,323 --> 03:39:56,822
one. Again, just another example. Of it kind of being

3388
03:39:56,822 --> 03:40:00,923
a little bigger than anyone would have anticipated. You go

3389
03:40:00,923 --> 03:40:05,488
to the next slide. So this is essentially the steps

3390
03:40:05,488 --> 03:40:08,448
where we're at, so we know the stage three is.

3391
03:40:08,448 --> 03:40:14,573
Completed. And that report should be. Ready this week or

3392
03:40:14,573 --> 03:40:17,345
next week at the latest. But we know that all

3393
03:40:17,345 --> 03:40:19,785
of those sites that I just showed do require stage

3394
03:40:19,785 --> 03:40:23,910
four mitigation. And understanding that you don't have a lot

3395
03:40:23,910 --> 03:40:27,870
of leeway. That project area needs to be impacted. So

3396
03:40:27,870 --> 03:40:31,070
we're looking at excavation, fully removing it out of the

3397
03:40:31,070 --> 03:40:33,510
way and, like. I said that would be done in

3398
03:40:33,510 --> 03:40:37,990
a combination of hand excavation but also using some machinery

3399
03:40:37,990 --> 03:40:44,739
as well. What we're seeing also is. We're not assessing

3400
03:40:44,739 --> 03:40:46,939
outside of the project area, but we are seeing these

3401
03:40:46,939 --> 03:40:49,459
sites go right. To the end of the project area.

3402
03:40:49,459 --> 03:40:52,664
So essentially, We're quite clear, and there's going to be

3403
03:40:52,664 --> 03:40:55,344
an instance where we know these sites do extend outside.

3404
03:40:56,863 --> 03:40:58,583
We don't need to impact those, but we will have

3405
03:40:58,583 --> 03:41:00,983
to put in some protection during construction so that we

3406
03:41:00,983 --> 03:41:02,903
know that nothing happens to it and they can stay

3407
03:41:02,903 --> 03:41:07,380
where they are. Throughout this entire process. We continue to

3408
03:41:07,380 --> 03:41:10,420
consult with the indigenous groups that are participating with us

3409
03:41:10,420 --> 03:41:13,703
on site. We're coordinating with them when we're coming up

3410
03:41:13,703 --> 03:41:18,050
with our strategy. Timing wise, when we get to stage

3411
03:41:18,050 --> 03:41:22,588
four. And it's a fair amount of work in order

3412
03:41:22,588 --> 03:41:26,108
to get that done, but we do have the option,

3413
03:41:26,108 --> 03:41:31,476
which I've recommended. Is, once we've finished the excavation, you

3414
03:41:31,476 --> 03:41:33,276
then have all the material and the artifacts that. You

3415
03:41:33,276 --> 03:41:36,316
have to process and analyze and go through all of

3416
03:41:36,316 --> 03:41:39,476
that, which can take some time, but. At this point.

3417
03:41:39,476 --> 03:41:41,796
We've already removed it out of the ground, so what

3418
03:41:41,796 --> 03:41:44,996
we can do? Is we can write a preliminary excavation

3419
03:41:44,996 --> 03:41:49,441
report. That satisfies the ministry. What it does is it

3420
03:41:49,441 --> 03:41:52,401
provides all the methods that we did. Everything that we

3421
03:41:52,401 --> 03:41:56,521
did as far as the excavation went for removing it,

3422
03:41:56,521 --> 03:42:00,121
but it leaves out the artifact piece. And what that

3423
03:42:00,121 --> 03:42:04,716
does is it allows the ministry to say, okay. We're

3424
03:42:04,716 --> 03:42:08,676
comfortable with this preliminary excavation report. Construction can proceed while

3425
03:42:08,676 --> 03:42:11,396
we take the time to. Do the thorough requirement of

3426
03:42:11,396 --> 03:42:14,116
analyzing all the artifacts and going through all of that.

3427
03:42:14,116 --> 03:42:18,694
We're still required to provide that final report, but. Construction

3428
03:42:18,694 --> 03:42:20,854
doesn't have to wait for us to get through that

3429
03:42:20,854 --> 03:42:24,941
in order for that to happen. And then essentially, when

3430
03:42:24,941 --> 03:42:28,221
the MCM acceptance really is that letter saying you're clear

3431
03:42:28,221 --> 03:42:33,412
to go. And then that's it. Kind of how it

3432
03:42:33,412 --> 03:42:37,520
goes. Thank you so much, and I certainly appreciate you

3433
03:42:37,520 --> 03:42:41,040
explaining this. And I want to say I'm definitely very

3434
03:42:41,040 --> 03:42:43,120
glad that this process is in place and that we

3435
03:42:43,120 --> 03:42:48,011
are preserving. Any indigenous findings that we do include them

3436
03:42:48,011 --> 03:42:54,020
in this process as well. And. It's definitely worth the

3437
03:42:54,020 --> 03:42:58,460
additional cost, I would say, to preserve any findings. And

3438
03:42:58,460 --> 03:43:00,300
it also is worth the delay in the project, but

3439
03:43:00,300 --> 03:43:02,780
I do understand some frustrations of the public and that's

3440
03:43:02,780 --> 03:43:04,380
the only thing that I wanted, was to have some

3441
03:43:04,380 --> 03:43:09,260
clarity provided as to why. There's this delay and the

3442
03:43:09,260 --> 03:43:11,060
steps that are taken with a little bit more detail,

3443
03:43:11,060 --> 03:43:14,185
so. I certainly appreciate that. As far. As cost goes,

3444
03:43:14,185 --> 03:43:18,557
do we get? Any reimbursement from the ministry or from

3445
03:43:18,557 --> 03:43:22,157
the indigenous groups in this recovery process or is this

3446
03:43:22,157 --> 03:43:26,331
solely on the municipality? Typically, it's solely on the municipality.

3447
03:43:27,894 --> 03:43:29,814
I know of some municipalities that have tried to get

3448
03:43:29,814 --> 03:43:33,294
various grants through ministries. I haven't. Heard of anyone being

3449
03:43:33,294 --> 03:43:39,366
successful, but essentially it's fully proponent. Covered. Okay. Thank you

3450
03:43:39,366 --> 03:43:43,457
so much. I did just have one further question. Another

3451
03:43:43,457 --> 03:43:51,545
question that I got was. Actually. To the greenhouse. Operation

3452
03:43:51,545 --> 03:43:54,842
that's there. And it was sought by the public that

3453
03:43:54,842 --> 03:43:56,762
they didn't have to go through this process. Can you

3454
03:43:56,762 --> 03:44:01,401
clarify? What happened on that site. To as much that

3455
03:44:01,401 --> 03:44:05,610
you can provide with transparency and confidentiality. I don't know.

3456
03:44:05,610 --> 03:44:10,460
I looked to see if there was. Any reports for

3457
03:44:10,460 --> 03:44:13,915
that area? Because funny enough, A long time ago, maybe

3458
03:44:13,915 --> 03:44:17,075
2016. I did the archaeology at a different consultant for

3459
03:44:17,075 --> 03:44:19,075
a greenhouse in Chatham, Kent. And I was like, was

3460
03:44:19,075 --> 03:44:22,635
that the same one? But I couldn't find any. Reports

3461
03:44:22,635 --> 03:44:26,195
for it. This is a requirement, and it falls under.

3462
03:44:27,673 --> 03:44:31,398
The. Ontario Heritage act that says you have to do

3463
03:44:31,398 --> 03:44:34,398
it. But the Ontario Heritage act, just you're? In violation

3464
03:44:34,398 --> 03:44:37,198
of that. If you impact an archaeological resource, it doesn't

3465
03:44:37,198 --> 03:44:40,465
say you have. To do an assessment. So that tends

3466
03:44:40,465 --> 03:44:43,985
to fall under the Planning Act. A number EA, like

3467
03:44:43,985 --> 03:44:49,092
a number of different. Policies, but sometimes it gets missed.

3468
03:44:50,811 --> 03:44:55,454
So I can't speak to that particular place. But, yeah,

3469
03:44:55,454 --> 03:44:59,094
sometimes that happens. Okay. Thanks, Bruce. Thank you, worship. Maybe

3470
03:44:59,094 --> 03:45:04,162
I can just elaborate. I can probably speculate. On what

3471
03:45:04,162 --> 03:45:07,162
would have happened there. So greenhouses are permitted as of

3472
03:45:07,162 --> 03:45:11,487
right in our agricultural zoning. So they wouldn't have required

3473
03:45:11,487 --> 03:45:15,322
a trigger for an assessment. Ultimately any development you do

3474
03:45:15,322 --> 03:45:21,122
like, we've had others that have uncovered archaeological artifacts, just

3475
03:45:21,122 --> 03:45:25,677
even through building construction. And excavation. That's kind of the

3476
03:45:25,677 --> 03:45:28,877
scenario. If you find it, then it would trigger moving.

3477
03:45:28,877 --> 03:45:31,797
Forward. So the other greenhouse that I think you're referring

3478
03:45:31,797 --> 03:45:34,597
to would have been the one. Here in town that

3479
03:45:34,597 --> 03:45:38,197
did require land use changes to permit it in an

3480
03:45:38,197 --> 03:45:41,517
industrial zone at the time. So I recall. That triggered

3481
03:45:41,517 --> 03:45:44,969
an archaeological assessment, so that's the difference. In. Why? Okay.

3482
03:45:44,969 --> 03:45:47,049
Thank you. So if they would have found something, it

3483
03:45:47,049 --> 03:45:50,074
wouldn't have not. Gone to the public, but they would

3484
03:45:50,074 --> 03:45:51,874
have been required to report to the ministry, is what

3485
03:45:51,874 --> 03:45:58,659
you're saying? Thank you, councilor story. Thank you very much.

3486
03:45:58,659 --> 03:46:02,019
This is very interesting. You mentioned that it's a woodland

3487
03:46:02,019 --> 03:46:07,516
period. Series of artifacts. What time frame are we talking

3488
03:46:07,516 --> 03:46:16,080
about in terms of human history? Roughly. Woodland typically starts

3489
03:46:16,080 --> 03:46:22,231
around. 600. Bc. Up to about. And we usually stay

3490
03:46:22,231 --> 03:46:26,871
around contact, so 14 to 16 hundreds. So it's a

3491
03:46:26,871 --> 03:46:30,231
wide time. Period. And frankly, the only difference is that.

3492
03:46:31,659 --> 03:46:33,539
Pottery is a big indicator. It was at a time.

3493
03:46:35,164 --> 03:46:37,644
That indigenous groups started using pottery and we start seeing

3494
03:46:37,644 --> 03:46:40,670
it in there. And it kind of helps us date

3495
03:46:40,670 --> 03:46:44,776
it to a certain time period. So it's 600 plus

3496
03:46:44,776 --> 03:46:49,729
or more years old. Potentially. Thank you. All right. Thank

3497
03:46:49,729 --> 03:46:54,037
you very much. See. No other questions. We'll put it

3498
03:46:54,037 --> 03:47:03,378
to vote. Councilor bondi. Yes. Councilor b. Mcgregor. Yeah. All

3499
03:47:03,378 --> 03:47:07,311
votes are in motion. Passes 17 to zero. We'll move

3500
03:47:07,311 --> 03:47:09,831
on to notice of motion. Councilor Scott, you have two

3501
03:47:09,831 --> 03:47:14,271
of them. Thank you, Mary Kane. Whereas an independent audit

3502
03:47:14,271 --> 03:47:17,471
by Deloitte conducted for the Chatham Kent police services. Did

3503
03:47:17,471 --> 03:47:20,311
to highlight a staffing shortage and recommend an increasing staffing

3504
03:47:20,311 --> 03:47:23,711
to meet service demands and that the Lloyd audit found

3505
03:47:23,711 --> 03:47:26,311
that the total calls for service have an increased which.

3506
03:47:27,254 --> 03:47:30,494
Has turned increased total for police attending. And whereas the

3507
03:47:30,494 --> 03:47:33,854
Deloitte audit found that the police budget for police officer

3508
03:47:33,854 --> 03:47:42,472
strength had remained the same from. That. And whereas that

3509
03:47:42,472 --> 03:47:45,152
Deloitte audit found that the police budget for police officer

3510
03:47:45,152 --> 03:47:48,832
strength had remained the same from 2018 to 2021. And

3511
03:47:48,832 --> 03:47:51,832
whereas that Deloitte audit found that CKPS has a low

3512
03:47:51,832 --> 03:47:55,552
policing ratio compared to the provincial and canadian averages. And

3513
03:47:55,552 --> 03:47:58,112
whereas the Deloitte audit found that the proactive work had

3514
03:47:58,112 --> 03:48:03,678
decreased office. Officers are required to attend more calls, leaving

3515
03:48:03,678 --> 03:48:07,359
less time for proactive and preventative work. And whereas that

3516
03:48:07,359 --> 03:48:11,879
dolot audit found CKPS employees well being have been compromised

3517
03:48:11,879 --> 03:48:13,959
with an increase to the use of sick time and

3518
03:48:13,959 --> 03:48:17,279
long term illness. And whereas Deloitte also noted that officers

3519
03:48:17,279 --> 03:48:20,519
were wearing too many hats and suggested streamlined responsibilities for

3520
03:48:20,519 --> 03:48:24,119
greater efficiency. And whereas CKPs is nearing the completion of

3521
03:48:24,119 --> 03:48:27,712
the hiring process, and there has been significantly. Positive feedback

3522
03:48:27,712 --> 03:48:30,432
in the Chattam area. Therefore, be it resolved that Chatham

3523
03:48:30,432 --> 03:48:33,312
Kent Council requests the chief of police attend at a

3524
03:48:33,312 --> 03:48:36,632
future council meeting and present a report updating council and

3525
03:48:36,632 --> 03:48:40,472
the public. About implementation of the hiring process and revised

3526
03:48:40,472 --> 03:48:43,672
processes to assist in dealing with the identified issues and

3527
03:48:43,672 --> 03:48:46,112
as the municipality of Chatham, Kent is still seeing an

3528
03:48:46,112 --> 03:48:48,706
increase in police related. Needs that the chief be asked

3529
03:48:48,706 --> 03:48:51,426
to also highlight any future initiatives for all communities of

3530
03:48:51,426 --> 03:48:56,260
Chatham, Kent. Thank you. The light got me a little

3531
03:48:56,260 --> 03:48:59,340
spotty there for a second. Whereas Chatham can't. Currently reports

3532
03:48:59,340 --> 03:49:03,180
on its operating budget variants and whereas purchasing bylaw 205

3533
03:49:03,180 --> 03:49:07,500
200:25 provides the delegated authority to award the contracts of

3534
03:49:07,500 --> 03:49:10,820
the value less than $1 million with approved budget. And

3535
03:49:10,820 --> 03:49:14,592
whereas there has been a recent coverage of. Capital projects

3536
03:49:14,592 --> 03:49:17,872
being over budget, while amenity capital projects that are within

3537
03:49:17,872 --> 03:49:21,192
budget go unreported. Therefore, be it resolved that infrastructure and

3538
03:49:21,192 --> 03:49:24,712
engineering services bring forward an annual information report to council

3539
03:49:24,712 --> 03:49:27,632
on attenders and rfps that were awarded for the year

3540
03:49:27,632 --> 03:49:33,462
through delegated authority. Closed session reports councilor hall and Connecticut

3541
03:49:33,462 --> 03:49:37,502
councilor Bondi the second. Thank you, mayor. Can have confidentiality

3542
03:49:37,502 --> 03:49:39,822
and closed session meetings. Closed session meetings of council are

3543
03:49:39,822 --> 03:49:42,742
held to discuss sensitive matters. Such as legal issues, personnel

3544
03:49:42,742 --> 03:49:46,182
matters, or property negotiations. These sessions are governed by strict

3545
03:49:46,182 --> 03:49:50,850
confidentiality to protect the interests of the municipal. Municipality and

3546
03:49:50,850 --> 03:49:54,130
individuals involved. Council members and staff are legally, unethically bound

3547
03:49:54,130 --> 03:49:57,690
to maintain discretion and any disclosure of information discussed in

3548
03:49:57,690 --> 03:50:02,282
closed session may result in penalties or legal consequences. Closed

3549
03:50:02,282 --> 03:50:06,242
session report for Monday, June 23, 2025. Council received information

3550
03:50:06,242 --> 03:50:10,482
on litigation or potential litigation affecting the municipality or local

3551
03:50:10,482 --> 03:50:13,242
board and advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege

3552
03:50:13,242 --> 03:50:17,282
with regard to claims and litigation. Update section 239, two

3553
03:50:17,282 --> 03:50:19,362
e and f of the municipal act, and I so

3554
03:50:19,362 --> 03:50:28,031
move. Anyone opposed? Do you want the official vote in

3555
03:50:28,031 --> 03:50:34,726
this one? Okay, we can vote now. Council Bondi. Yes,

3556
03:50:34,726 --> 03:50:42,125
and councilor B. McGregor. Yes. Although Turin motion passes 17

3557
03:50:42,125 --> 03:50:45,245
to zero communication items. Councilor Finn, you wanted to pull

3558
03:50:45,245 --> 03:50:50,525
two c. Yes. Thank you. Kind of disheartened to read

3559
03:50:50,525 --> 03:50:56,005
yet again that we received no funding. For sports community

3560
03:50:56,005 --> 03:51:03,534
sport and Recreation Infrastructure fund. If somebody could explain. Do

3561
03:51:03,534 --> 03:51:06,014
we know when the last time was we received funding

3562
03:51:06,014 --> 03:51:11,143
from this grant program? And what does this now mean

3563
03:51:11,143 --> 03:51:19,171
for the project that was submitted? Perhaps. I can answer

3564
03:51:19,171 --> 03:51:24,063
part of that. Four arenas. We have received grant funding.

3565
03:51:24,063 --> 03:51:26,223
I'm not sure if it was from this program. Or

3566
03:51:26,223 --> 03:51:30,783
from another sports program. As governments come out, they announced

3567
03:51:30,783 --> 03:51:37,380
different forms. Of funding. But the Wallsburg Irene rebuild. We

3568
03:51:37,380 --> 03:51:42,939
did receive about a million dollars of funding. When we

3569
03:51:42,939 --> 03:51:45,459
replaced the floor and did a lot of renovations there.

3570
03:51:47,343 --> 03:51:50,568
But, yeah, it's a very disappointing that. We did not

3571
03:51:50,568 --> 03:51:57,217
receive funding for the Blana marina. Aligned perfectly with. The

3572
03:51:57,217 --> 03:52:01,268
purpose of the grant. It all comes down to be

3573
03:52:01,268 --> 03:52:05,857
that. The grants offered by upper levels never have enough

3574
03:52:05,857 --> 03:52:10,687
funding to go around. And I can't explain why shadow

3575
03:52:10,687 --> 03:52:13,933
was left out again. So what does it mean? Now

3576
03:52:13,933 --> 03:52:18,020
for the Blenheim Arena? So it was still budgeted. It

3577
03:52:18,020 --> 03:52:20,860
still was in the capital budget to fund. We were

3578
03:52:20,860 --> 03:52:24,860
hoping to offset chat and Pentagon so we could move

3579
03:52:24,860 --> 03:52:32,346
those dollars to a new project. Instead. It'll just be

3580
03:52:32,346 --> 03:52:38,527
chatter cut property tax dollars going to. That project. I

3581
03:52:38,527 --> 03:52:44,182
believe it's in. 27 that it's actually being done. Thank

3582
03:52:44,182 --> 03:52:47,022
you, councilor fan and Councilor Doyle. Can I get you

3583
03:52:47,022 --> 03:52:53,611
to move the communication items? Please. Happy to move it.

3584
03:52:54,141 --> 03:52:58,301
Happy to say that. Any questions? Anyone opposed? Motion carries

3585
03:52:58,301 --> 03:53:02,343
non agenda business. Hope your hand is okay.

3586
03:53:13,182 --> 03:53:16,355
We got eight minutes. I'm sure we'll fit all this

3587
03:53:16,355 --> 03:53:21,052
in. Sorry. Who else? Over here. Councilor Scott, chief. All

3588
03:53:21,052 --> 03:53:23,772
by councilor Anderson. Thank you, Maricina. I just wanted to

3589
03:53:23,772 --> 03:53:26,252
remind everybody that on candidate day, the glad tiny church

3590
03:53:26,252 --> 03:53:29,212
is having a very big fireworks display and also that

3591
03:53:29,212 --> 03:53:32,932
the Blenham Fire Department is celebrating 150 years. And lastly,

3592
03:53:32,932 --> 03:53:35,892
I just wanted that there was several events around CK

3593
03:53:35,892 --> 03:53:42,352
last weekend. And dozens and probably hundreds of volunteers. And

3594
03:53:42,352 --> 03:53:44,072
I just want to thank all the volunteers that make

3595
03:53:44,072 --> 03:53:47,352
these wonderful events happen, whether it be a car show

3596
03:53:47,352 --> 03:53:50,792
or all the events that's happening. Across our community. Thank

3597
03:53:50,792 --> 03:53:55,796
you. Councilor Anderson, followed by council Juneville. Thank you. I

3598
03:53:55,796 --> 03:53:58,036
just wanted to remind everybody that this weekend is the

3599
03:53:58,036 --> 03:54:01,956
Wheatley Fish Festival. There's things happening Friday, Saturday and Sunday

3600
03:54:01,956 --> 03:54:05,076
at the harbor at the arena and uptown Wheatley. So

3601
03:54:05,076 --> 03:54:07,196
bring your family, bring your friends, and come and enjoy

3602
03:54:07,196 --> 03:54:11,236
some time with us. Thanks, councilor juvenile, followed by councilor

3603
03:54:11,236 --> 03:54:14,342
C. McGregor. Thank you, mayor. Cannoff I have been contacted

3604
03:54:14,342 --> 03:54:16,982
by quite a few residents from Dresden today who have

3605
03:54:16,982 --> 03:54:20,102
shared some pictures and concerns with me. It appears there

3606
03:54:20,102 --> 03:54:22,342
was a lot of activity at the York one. Site

3607
03:54:22,342 --> 03:54:25,022
today, and many people have asked if we have any

3608
03:54:25,022 --> 03:54:28,422
knowledge, authority or governance over what is currently happening there.

3609
03:54:29,934 --> 03:54:32,774
Thank you, worship. Maybe I can answer that. Yeah, we

3610
03:54:32,774 --> 03:54:35,094
do have some knowledge of activity happening on that site.

3611
03:54:37,481 --> 03:54:38,841
It's really hard to say whether or not we have

3612
03:54:38,841 --> 03:54:42,712
any authority. They have the right to use their property

3613
03:54:42,712 --> 03:54:46,427
legally like anybody else does. We will be keeping an

3614
03:54:46,427 --> 03:54:48,347
eye on them, and I encourage people to share with

3615
03:54:48,347 --> 03:54:51,679
their counselors. Or us if they see any activity. That

3616
03:54:51,679 --> 03:54:54,319
is beyond what they're entitled to do. We will be

3617
03:54:54,319 --> 03:54:59,583
reminding them what their zoning is. And if anyone sees

3618
03:54:59,583 --> 03:55:02,863
any, there's certain things, obviously, if buildings go up, it's.

3619
03:55:02,863 --> 03:55:05,983
Subject to the Ontario building code. If there's any earthworks

3620
03:55:05,983 --> 03:55:08,743
that's happening, that's. Going to impact drains or water courses,

3621
03:55:08,743 --> 03:55:11,623
and they need the proper permissions for that. So we'll

3622
03:55:11,623 --> 03:55:13,663
certainly keep an eye on it. I just would urge

3623
03:55:13,663 --> 03:55:15,863
people to do so. Legally. I'd hate to see somebody

3624
03:55:15,863 --> 03:55:19,708
get hurt or be charged for tres. Trespassing. We'll make

3625
03:55:19,708 --> 03:55:21,908
sure that our enforcement people drop by from time to

3626
03:55:21,908 --> 03:55:24,548
time. As well. I will take the opportunity to indicate

3627
03:55:24,548 --> 03:55:28,943
we still have not heard from York one. Nor from

3628
03:55:28,943 --> 03:55:31,977
the province. So if there has been. A new application

3629
03:55:31,977 --> 03:55:35,857
filed. Now that bill five has been passed, we have

3630
03:55:35,857 --> 03:55:38,337
not been advised by either. The province or York, one

3631
03:55:38,337 --> 03:55:41,177
of that. Obviously, when we are, we'll let you know,

3632
03:55:41,177 --> 03:55:43,057
but. As of right now, we don't know what the

3633
03:55:43,057 --> 03:55:46,609
plans are. And we know that the EA is not

3634
03:55:46,609 --> 03:55:49,929
a requirement anymore by legislation. We're not really sure how

3635
03:55:49,929 --> 03:55:54,689
the ESA is going to be addressed. So as soon

3636
03:55:54,689 --> 03:55:56,529
as we get more information, we'll let you know. But

3637
03:55:56,529 --> 03:55:59,169
in the interim, any information that people have about the

3638
03:55:59,169 --> 03:56:03,222
use of the site. We're happy to collect. Councilor C.

3639
03:56:03,222 --> 03:56:06,662
McGregor, probably. Councilor Wright. Thank you. And you can thank

3640
03:56:06,662 --> 03:56:12,492
Councilor Finn for me to remember this one. But this

3641
03:56:12,492 --> 03:56:15,692
past week, my food palette. Through my food policy council,

3642
03:56:15,692 --> 03:56:20,697
I met. With trevor jones. In regards to some of

3643
03:56:20,697 --> 03:56:25,577
the direction as envisioned with the Food Policy council. But

3644
03:56:25,577 --> 03:56:29,017
in that conversation, he mentioned that should we at any

3645
03:56:29,017 --> 03:56:33,377
point in time be submitting grants or submissions through to

3646
03:56:33,377 --> 03:56:37,613
the provincial government. He indicated that he could not help

3647
03:56:37,613 --> 03:56:40,973
us write those grants or whatever. But once those grants

3648
03:56:40,973 --> 03:56:47,734
are written that if we wish to include him, Afterwards

3649
03:56:47,734 --> 03:56:50,054
that he would be more than happy to help see

3650
03:56:50,054 --> 03:56:53,054
that those submissions get in front of the right people

3651
03:56:53,054 --> 03:56:56,573
to try and help us gain. Access to some of

3652
03:56:56,573 --> 03:57:03,317
that funding. Thank you for that, councilor. We do. It

3653
03:57:03,317 --> 03:57:07,530
hasn't helped yet, necessarily. But in fairness, The minister has

3654
03:57:07,530 --> 03:57:11,130
a new portfolio now, so perhaps that's something that will

3655
03:57:11,130 --> 03:57:14,944
allow him to. Be more helpful. Councilor wright. Thank you,

3656
03:57:14,944 --> 03:57:20,144
mayor. Can if Ridgetown is starting to celebrate their 150

3657
03:57:20,144 --> 03:57:24,820
years, this year. Their praise. Friday night, everyone's welcome. 06:00.

3658
03:57:26,060 --> 03:57:29,220
The Ridge House Museum got their 50th anniversary. They just

3659
03:57:29,220 --> 03:57:31,060
redone their museum. It really looks good. If you get

3660
03:57:31,060 --> 03:57:34,020
a chance, get out and go through it. And hats

3661
03:57:34,020 --> 03:57:36,180
off to Temville. We were there, me and the mayor,

3662
03:57:36,180 --> 03:57:38,820
on Friday night, we went through the parade and they

3663
03:57:38,820 --> 03:57:43,191
had a great festival all weekend, so thank you. Okay,

3664
03:57:43,191 --> 03:57:46,191
we'll move on to reading of the bylaws first and

3665
03:57:46,191 --> 03:57:54,778
second reading councilor. Crew McDonald's. Seconded. Anyone opposed? Motion carry.

3666
03:57:54,778 --> 03:57:58,258
Councilor hall and councilor juvenile, third and final reading. So.

3667
03:57:58,258 --> 03:58:03,058
Moved and seconded. Anyone opposed? Motion carried. Resolution of council.

3668
03:58:08,126 --> 03:58:11,373
Councilor hall, and then if we can get. I don't

3669
03:58:11,373 --> 03:58:13,333
know. Who did I write down for this one? Councilor

3670
03:58:13,333 --> 03:58:17,547
Scott? This one seconded, I move the chapter council adjourn

3671
03:58:17,547 --> 03:58:20,067
to its next meeting to be held on Monday, July

3672
03:58:20,067 --> 03:58:22,907
14, 2025, in that Chattel County Council authorized itself to

3673
03:58:22,907 --> 03:58:24,827
be in closed session on that day to discuss any

3674
03:58:24,827 --> 03:58:29,448
matters permitted by the municipal act. Councilor Zagachi is seconded.

3675
03:58:29,448 --> 03:58:35,070
Anyone opposed? Wrapping up at 957. Three minutes to spare.

3676
03:58:35,070 --> 03:58:44,893
Here we go. Thanks, everybody. We are your tv

3677
03:58:44,893 --> 03:58:45,453
connect with us.