1
00:00:23,500 --> 00:00:31,020
Good evening, everybody. Thank you for being here tonight, both in person and virtually. We are here from

2
00:00:31,020 --> 00:00:37,520
Barrett Planning Group, and we are working with the town of Chatham on a visioning process for

3
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:43,400
affordable and attainable housing development on two recently acquired town-owned properties on

4
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:48,340
Main Street and Meeting House Road. So we'll be giving you some information about both of those properties this evening.

5
00:00:50,220 --> 00:00:54,380
Just in terms of the agenda for this evening, Gloria is going to tell us a little bit about

6
00:00:54,380 --> 00:00:55,560
the project background.

7
00:00:56,340 --> 00:00:59,340
And then it's going to come back over to us at Barrett Planning Group to talk a little

8
00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:01,580
bit about housing needs in Chatham.

9
00:01:01,900 --> 00:01:07,720
Looking first at what was learned from the 2018 housing production plan, which was kind of

10
00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,460
our primary source for learning about housing needs in Chatham.

11
00:01:10,580 --> 00:01:14,940
And then kind of looking at what maybe has changed or remained the same for years later.

12
00:01:14,940 --> 00:01:22,480
And then we'll be going into details about each of the properties, the main street property and the meeting house road property.

13
00:01:23,180 --> 00:01:28,140
There'll be some time for questions in between all of those different topics.

14
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,120
And then at the end we'll have kind of a broader Q&A session as well.

15
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,120
And then go over what the next steps are for this process.

16
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,400
So with that said, I'm going to briefly turn it over to Gloria McPherson.

17
00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:46,240
Hi everyone, welcome and thank you.

18
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,600
Welcome and thank you for coming to the first of a series of community engagement meetings

19
00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:57,260
where we talk about possible development scenarios on the two properties that Alexis mentioned.

20
00:01:57,900 --> 00:02:03,040
I'm Gloria McPherson, the Housing and Sustainability Director for the Town of Chatham,

21
00:02:03,260 --> 00:02:08,660
relatively new, coming up on my four-month anniversary, so I see some familiar faces,

22
00:02:08,660 --> 00:02:15,120
but most of you I don't know, but thank you for coming to the forum. I'd like to give

23
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:20,460
a brief shout out to our town manager, Jill Goldsmith who's here and our director of community

24
00:02:20,460 --> 00:02:26,740
development, Katie Dunnvan, who provided a lot of the background information for what we're

25
00:02:26,740 --> 00:02:32,580
going to be doing today. And also I see members of the Select Board here in other town committees

26
00:02:32,580 --> 00:02:34,840
important. So thank you everyone for coming.

27
00:02:37,980 --> 00:02:45,760
So why are we here? So back in 2020, the town

28
00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:55,360
decided that it was going to kind of take control of the housing crisis and issued an RFP

29
00:02:55,360 --> 00:03:01,920
for the purchase of land or buildings that could potentially be suitable for affordable housing

30
00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:03,100
and attainable housing,

31
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,940
and since then we've issued the RFP a few times, maybe five times,

32
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:18,620
with the hopes that people would submit proposals for the sale of their property so that

33
00:03:18,620 --> 00:03:21,220
we could purchase it for affordable and attainable housing.

34
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:27,460
Just to give you a sense of what that RFP process is like just so you understand the timeline

35
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,760
because everyone wants housing but nothing happens quickly in town government and especially

36
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:38,260
in housing development because there are so many steps, even just the acquisition process takes

37
00:03:38,260 --> 00:03:44,600
a long time. So housing RFP is issued. It's out there for a certain amount of time. Property

38
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:50,980
owners respond to that RFP. They give the town a proposal saying how much they want for

39
00:03:50,980 --> 00:03:57,260
their property. The town has to do due diligence. We have to do appraisals. We have to understand

40
00:03:57,260 --> 00:04:01,820
the property. We have to make an evaluation to determine whether it's suitable for the development

41
00:04:01,820 --> 00:04:10,340
of housing, and then all of the schools into negotiations, it's possible that the offering

42
00:04:10,340 --> 00:04:15,580
prices higher than what the land appraisers for, and the town can't purchase something

43
00:04:15,580 --> 00:04:19,160
higher than what it appraisers for, so that's all part of the negotiation.

44
00:04:20,340 --> 00:04:28,220
And then ultimately, an approving body has to approve the purchase, and in our case, we had two

45
00:04:28,220 --> 00:04:34,540
different approving bodies for two different properties based on the funding sources for that.

46
00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,680
And the next slide will go into that a little bit more detail.

47
00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:48,620
So we ended up purchasing two properties based on proposals that we received from two separate RFPs.

48
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,080
So we didn't get them in the same one.

49
00:04:50,300 --> 00:04:54,480
That's why we keep reassuring it because different circumstances arise.

50
00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,300
Different people might be interested in selling at that point.

51
00:04:57,300 --> 00:04:59,140
And in fact, we're going to keep doing that.

52
00:04:59,340 --> 00:05:03,700
We recently re-asshoot it, and we'll probably do it again in another three months.

53
00:05:04,580 --> 00:05:05,480
So if you know of anybody,

54
00:05:07,780 --> 00:05:10,320
so the first house is on Main Street.

55
00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:18,420
It was the former Buckley family property, the older dresses 1533 Main Street, and we also

56
00:05:18,420 --> 00:05:22,700
bought a property from the Fall River Diasis on Meeting House Road.

57
00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:36,260
And those two properties are the subject of this entire community engagement process, which is going to involve meetings like this, as well as the survey in January, which we'll hear more about from our consultants.

58
00:05:37,220 --> 00:05:42,800
And now, to get into more particulars about the properties, just so you start to understand what we're working with.

59
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,140
So, the first property is our main street property.

60
00:05:46,460 --> 00:05:48,560
This is purchased from the Buckley family.

61
00:05:49,740 --> 00:05:53,840
There was originally a house on the property that was subdivided out.

62
00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,240
So, the town bought the property without the house, the remainder of it.

63
00:05:57,380 --> 00:06:01,840
Approximately two and a half acres for 1.375 million.

64
00:06:02,500 --> 00:06:08,200
The funding source was half affordable housing trust funds and half free cash.

65
00:06:08,540 --> 00:06:09,960
And that's important for a couple of reasons.

66
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,020
And so the approval body for the purchase of that was town meeting because they had to approve

67
00:06:14,020 --> 00:06:15,720
the expenditure of free cash.

68
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:22,280
And when you use affordable housing trust funds, it limits the development to affordable

69
00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:30,600
housing capital A. So 80% AMI and below at least 50% of the units have to be that because

70
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:37,620
of the funding sources used. And yeah, and one of the things I found interesting is the

71
00:06:37,620 --> 00:06:53,920
time meeting authorized it to the closing was five months. So things take time. And the next property that we're also going to look at is a property on meeting house road, which was owned by the diocese of fall river.

72
00:06:54,120 --> 00:07:01,460
It's across from the church that's over there. This is an undeveloped parcel unlike the one on meeting house road, which had a house and cottages in the back.

73
00:07:01,460 --> 00:07:10,080
The parcel is wooded, it's unused, it's actually really beautiful, I walked it the other day.

74
00:07:10,700 --> 00:07:17,940
So town meeting author, or the affordable housing trust fund, sorry, authorized $525,000 for the purchase of this.

75
00:07:18,260 --> 00:07:24,920
Ultimately we paid $500,000 for it because when we were doing our due diligence as a town and had it surveyed,

76
00:07:25,020 --> 00:07:29,900
we realized that the original survey was off and there was actually less land that was owned.

77
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:38,380
By the diocese, so the final size of the parcel is 3.5 acres, approximately, and the town closed

78
00:07:38,380 --> 00:07:46,160
on that for a total of $500,000. And because 100% of affordable housing trust funds were used

79
00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:51,940
to purchase this, 100% of the units on that property are going to have to be affordable capital

80
00:07:51,940 --> 00:07:53,860
a 2% AMI or below.

81
00:07:55,580 --> 00:07:58,420
And with that, I'm gonna hand it back over to our consultant team.

82
00:07:58,580 --> 00:07:59,860
Thank you.

83
00:08:00,020 --> 00:08:00,760
Thank you, Gloria.

84
00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,300
So we're going to start by talking about housing needs

85
00:08:04,300 --> 00:08:05,240
in your community.

86
00:08:06,020 --> 00:08:09,220
And as I mentioned, we started by looking at your last,

87
00:08:09,220 --> 00:08:11,660
your most recent housing production plan,

88
00:08:12,140 --> 00:08:14,960
which was written and approved in 2018.

89
00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,380
So housing production plans have a life cycle of five years

90
00:08:18,380 --> 00:08:18,940
and Massachusetts.

91
00:08:19,340 --> 00:08:21,460
So it is still your current active

92
00:08:21,460 --> 00:08:26,420
housing production plan, and so that's what we wanted to start with, although of course things

93
00:08:26,420 --> 00:08:31,380
change and we wanted to kind of compare and see what has shifted since that plan.

94
00:08:31,860 --> 00:08:37,780
So one of the key findings in the 2018 housing production plan was that Chatham's population

95
00:08:37,780 --> 00:08:43,440
is aging and that there are fewer younger people within your community.

96
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,780
So we wanted to look and see, is that holding true.

97
00:08:46,780 --> 00:09:00,060
And it is still true, and notably, you can't see that in this chart, but we did also look at the county as well, and it's a stronger trend in Chatham compared to Barnes, the county as a whole.

98
00:09:01,580 --> 00:09:05,940
So, right now, the data source that we're using for this is called the American Community Survey.

99
00:09:05,940 --> 00:09:10,520
I know that census 2020 was partially released.

100
00:09:10,820 --> 00:09:16,180
So while we have total population counts and housing unit counts and household counts,

101
00:09:16,580 --> 00:09:22,060
we don't have more detailed information from the census yet, such as breakdown by age group.

102
00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:27,200
So we can't, that'll be the really most accurate picture to be able to look at 2000 census

103
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:32,360
to 2010 to 2020, but because we don't have that full picture available, instead we are relying

104
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,360
on what's called that American Community Survey data.

105
00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,680
And you can see on the percentage of the population

106
00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:44,420
that is 65 plus from 2011 to 2016,

107
00:09:44,660 --> 00:09:45,860
so we looked at five year intervals,

108
00:09:46,100 --> 00:09:49,920
and then 2021, which is the most recent year

109
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,400
for which American Community Survey data is available.

110
00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:54,520
You can kind of see that steady increase

111
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,920
from 35% of your population to 46%.

112
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:06,800
And then under 18 population decreasing, although there was kind of a little bump up in 2016

113
00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,700
but that overall trend is trending downward.

114
00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:17,580
I thought this was interesting that the 45 to 64 also trending downward as well, and

115
00:10:17,580 --> 00:10:20,840
18 to 44 kind of stains stable.

116
00:10:22,100 --> 00:10:26,700
But the big thing that jumps out, of course, is that general trend toward an aging population

117
00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:30,820
and more so in Chattam than the county as a whole.

118
00:10:32,060 --> 00:10:36,700
Another key finding was there was uncertainty about what

119
00:10:37,620 --> 00:10:39,660
Chattam's population projection would look like.

120
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,200
And we've seen this on quite a few housing plans

121
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:43,520
that we've recently been working on.

122
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,400
It's not a lot of communities.

123
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,180
Previous housing production plans were using various

124
00:10:48,180 --> 00:10:50,460
population projection methods.

125
00:10:51,580 --> 00:10:56,080
For example, the Donahoe Institute of UMass Amherst

126
00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:03,420
or boss, yep, in her, yep, MAPC, Massachusetts, I'm sorry, metropolitan area planning commission.

127
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:09,260
They both put out these population projections for communities through 2030, and both

128
00:11:09,260 --> 00:11:14,260
of those projections anticipated that chat and would see a decrease in population through

129
00:11:14,260 --> 00:11:14,920
2030.

130
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:20,460
But then the last HPP pointed to another regional study that was done that actually thought

131
00:11:20,460 --> 00:11:24,880
there might be a modest increase, so it was kind of uncertain what would happen, but what we have

132
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:30,860
in the 2020 census is that actually there has been an increase, both in total population and household.

133
00:11:32,380 --> 00:11:36,360
So part of the reason why those population projections assumed that there would be a decrease

134
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:42,420
is because I mean, there was a pretty significant decrease from census 2000 to 2010, but that

135
00:11:42,420 --> 00:11:50,560
shifted back up. So another kind of key findings that household size was decreasing at the time

136
00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:54,100
of the last housing production plan or your current housing production plan, I should say.

137
00:11:54,100 --> 00:12:01,300
So, again, because census data for 2020 is not fully available, one of the things that it will include is average household size.

138
00:12:01,460 --> 00:12:07,260
We don't have that yet, but we can kind of estimate it by taking your total population and dividing it by your total households.

139
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,480
It's important to note that's not going to be exact, though, because your population includes group quarters,

140
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:25,300
the people in, you know, say, nursing homes or other kind of group homes settings, things like that, that are so they're not counted as being part of a household in the traditional sense.

141
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:38,420
So we don't have that data yet from the census, but we are able to kind of just estimate and see that you can see why the HPP assumed that because the household size did decrease, but now it seems to be kind of perhaps stabilizing.

142
00:12:42,070 --> 00:12:50,130
Another key finding from the 2018 housing production plan was that overall median household income was increasing.

143
00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:54,390
However, the income for rent or households was decreasing.

144
00:12:54,990 --> 00:12:58,910
So things were likely becoming more challenging for your rent or households.

145
00:12:59,970 --> 00:13:11,030
And then, so what we've looked at for that 2021 American Community Survey data shows that there still is that kind of trend upward in median household income.

146
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:16,770
So, the increase though is stronger for owners than renters.

147
00:13:17,770 --> 00:13:27,970
So, the median household income increased by 28% for homeowners over the last 10 years and only 18% for renters.

148
00:13:28,410 --> 00:13:38,370
And you can see just kind of how there was quite a little blip there in 2016 for the median income for renters versus in 2021.

149
00:13:38,370 --> 00:13:49,710
And that's worth noting that the estimated percent of rental households has decreased during that time as well by about 5% according to the American Community Survey.

150
00:13:50,110 --> 00:13:56,790
So you have fewer rental households, fewer rental stock available likely and you know, so kind of a more competitive market.

151
00:13:58,690 --> 00:14:12,690
Another finding that kind of led to a key recommendation in the HPP was that home values increase significantly in Chatham from 2000 to 2010, which had, you know, kind of a widening affordability gap.

152
00:14:13,390 --> 00:14:22,830
So, we wanted to look at the sales prices from 2011 to 2021, and the increase in that

153
00:14:22,830 --> 00:14:26,170
10-year period was about 48% of a price increase.

154
00:14:27,070 --> 00:14:30,030
However, it's even more staggering in 2022.

155
00:14:30,290 --> 00:14:35,690
We don't have the full year yet because we're still in 2022, but the median sale price in

156
00:14:35,690 --> 00:14:45,690
for a single family home right now is over a million dollars and that's, you know, in 2021 it was just under a million but it has surpassed that for 2022.

157
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:58,280
Okay, so then another key finding as we kind of wrap up on our overview of the HPP.

158
00:14:58,500 --> 00:14:59,960
So the housing production plan is...

159
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:07,900
Really focused on increasing your stock of affordable year-round housing for what's called your subsidized housing inventory.

160
00:15:08,620 --> 00:15:20,000
And that is a list maintained by DHCD. And so the target under Chapter 40B is to have 10% of your year-round housing be affordable.

161
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:27,360
capital A of affordable, as Gloria referred to it, and the kind of stipulation there is that it needs to be affordable to

162
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:38,060
household earning 80% of the area median income or lower. So that's what one of the requirements for being included on the subsidized housing inventory.

163
00:15:39,140 --> 00:15:49,980
So in the 2018 plan, when that was complete, the the town had about 5% on the SHI 5.03% to be exact, and then

164
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:57,620
And today, as of this month, and a little bit hasn't changed too much, it's 5.14%.

165
00:15:57,620 --> 00:16:03,560
So 178 units of kind of a mix of rental and ownership mostly rental, but there is significant

166
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,020
ownership as well.

167
00:16:05,580 --> 00:16:08,160
So that kind of shifts come from, there were nine units added.

168
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:14,580
Since the HPP, there was a group home with six rental units that was added, and then also

169
00:16:14,580 --> 00:16:15,740
three ownership units.

170
00:16:15,740 --> 00:16:18,060
So that's plus nine to since the plan.

171
00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:22,780
And then there were also five units that were lost through no fault of the towns.

172
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:24,540
This is not unique to chat them.

173
00:16:24,780 --> 00:16:30,680
There were five units that had been rehabilitated with a particular program that has since

174
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:31,120
ended.

175
00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:35,500
I'm not sure if it was a state program or federal program or if you know.

176
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:35,940
No, I can't.

177
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,220
Public federal funds administered by the Commonwealth.

178
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:38,760
Yeah.

179
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:39,140
Okay.

180
00:16:39,140 --> 00:16:40,680
So that program ended.

181
00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:45,280
So when those five units when their affordability restriction ended, they came off the

182
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:52,060
that program is no longer available to continue supporting those units, and that is not unique to chat them.

183
00:16:53,540 --> 00:17:02,840
So that is kind of it for our overview of the housing production plan. I'm going to talk about what the kind of key needs were in a moment

184
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:12,600
because we have a question about that. But I want to read this quote from the housing production plan that I think really kind of covers a lot of those needs that we just talked about.

185
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:19,440
The convergence of these trends, and aging population, fewer young adults, very high housing prices,

186
00:17:19,940 --> 00:17:27,460
lower housing production, little housing diversity, limited supply of rentals, difficulty in obtaining affordable financing,

187
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:34,460
and large upfront cash requirements for home ownership and rentals, all point to a challenging affordability gap.

188
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:39,520
If these demographic and housing trends are left to evolve unchecked,

189
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:44,540
Chatham will lose ground on its ability to be a place where individuals and families across

190
00:17:44,540 --> 00:17:47,640
a range of economic and social strata can call home.

191
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:55,120
So our first question for you, we want to open it up both to the people in front of us

192
00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:59,840
and also virtually, do you agree or disagree with that quote?

193
00:18:00,420 --> 00:18:04,740
Are there certain elements of the quote that you think are most significant to consider

194
00:18:04,740 --> 00:18:08,480
in this process when thinking about housing for these properties?

195
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,360
So they kind of, you know, in various demographic points

196
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:16,500
or made there, and also just kind of about your housing market.

197
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,420
So is there anything in that quote that resonates with you?

198
00:18:19,460 --> 00:18:22,580
You agree with, disagree with, and maybe have thoughts

199
00:18:22,580 --> 00:18:25,180
for how this opportunity that the town has

200
00:18:25,180 --> 00:18:26,980
can rectify some of those situations?

201
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:29,960
What I'm going to do for purposes of recording,

202
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:32,260
we were going to use chart paper, but then I realized

203
00:18:32,260 --> 00:18:34,600
that our friends online would have a hard time seeing it.

204
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,100
So instead we're going to type the notes.

205
00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:42,560
So I'm going to just change my screen to a full screen of a word document so I can type

206
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,760
the note so everybody can see whether they're at home or in front of us.

207
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:52,900
So I'm just going to stop screen sharing briefly and then switch what you are going to

208
00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:53,660
be seeing.

209
00:18:57,380 --> 00:18:57,400
Okay.

210
00:18:58,180 --> 00:19:03,570
And I'm going to make that view bigger.

211
00:19:05,010 --> 00:19:05,350
Oops.

212
00:19:06,030 --> 00:19:06,370
Oh, you know what?

213
00:19:06,450 --> 00:19:08,010
I'm going to need to back out for a second.

214
00:19:08,010 --> 00:19:10,450
I've got to minimize this.

215
00:19:18,580 --> 00:19:19,140
OK,

216
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:23,420
so that's a good idea.

217
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,760
Yeah, thank you.

218
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:29,140
All right.

219
00:19:30,060 --> 00:19:34,380
So any thoughts either from, I know,

220
00:19:34,460 --> 00:19:36,280
Katie will be helping us with any comments

221
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:37,940
from our virtual audience.

222
00:19:38,380 --> 00:19:41,400
And then anyone here, want to weigh in?

223
00:19:41,740 --> 00:19:45,680
We have a microphone set up in the middle of the meeting room.

224
00:19:45,820 --> 00:19:47,320
So if anybody would like to comment,

225
00:19:47,980 --> 00:19:53,360
If you would come to the microphone in the middle in any folks online that would like to comment,

226
00:19:53,620 --> 00:19:58,480
if you would raise your hand and I will recognize you through Microsoft Teams.

227
00:19:59,940 --> 00:20:03,320
And I do have one hand up online.

228
00:20:04,380 --> 00:20:05,260
And one as well.

229
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,820
All right, so we'll start online with Rick Levitt.

230
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:11,700
Rick, go ahead.

231
00:20:13,810 --> 00:20:21,070
Thank you, Katie. I'm Rick Lavitt, my wife, and I live in West Chasm Center in our home

232
00:20:21,070 --> 00:20:28,430
about the Buckley property. And we certainly appreciate having this opportunity to comment.

233
00:20:28,990 --> 00:20:34,070
I'm not just going to comment on this question. I have one or two other comments and I hope

234
00:20:35,050 --> 00:20:42,550
you will indulge me in this great deal of public comment has already been received, for example,

235
00:20:42,550 --> 00:20:48,650
when the Finance Committee weighed in with a report calling for an increase supply of housing,

236
00:20:49,450 --> 00:20:58,090
both rental and owned across the spectrum of up to 200% of area median income.

237
00:20:59,010 --> 00:21:05,330
Chattam needs a mix of market rate, attainable housing, and subsidized affordable housing

238
00:21:05,330 --> 00:21:10,690
for our diverse workforce and population.

239
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:20,460
Adam Voters approved a comprehensive plan, calling for mixing both attainable and affordable

240
00:21:20,460 --> 00:21:26,720
housing in these housing developments to avoid building another concentrated low-income

241
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,960
housing project in Chattam.

242
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:39,140
Chattam summer residents, advisory committee issued a report calling for density of 10 small

243
00:21:39,140 --> 00:21:48,000
single family homes per acre on small lots as seen in parts of chat of old village downtown

244
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:55,440
and chat of playing behind downtown. I see Phil Richardson is on I'm sure he will be commenting

245
00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:01,980
in that and I also see that John well and is on from the finance committee and I'm sure

246
00:22:01,980 --> 00:22:09,640
will be commenting on that. I personally called for site plan and design concepts recently

247
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:16,980
built over in Brewster and Dennis on Historic Route 6A. Both of those traditional cluster housing

248
00:22:16,980 --> 00:22:25,900
developments include single family and duplex attainable and affordable homes surrounding a village

249
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:29,980
these successful developments were designed.

250
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:59,840
I only have a little bit more to go, so please indulge me. A troubling aspect of the process that you are following is that only a single architectural firm has been chosen to provide site plan and design concepts, a more prudent approach from major design projects like this, frequently adopted by both public and private sectors.

251
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:06,060
is soliciting site plan and design concepts from more than one architect.

252
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:14,380
This should be at least three architectural firms presenting their conceptual ideas, or

253
00:23:14,380 --> 00:23:20,860
the public will be deprived of a variety of choices before deciding which concept is appropriate,

254
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,400
which items need a neighbourhoods.

255
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:31,240
Finally, I would like Union Studio to present their missing middle design concept.

256
00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:40,320
It was developed to make affordable attainable workforce housing possible in today's inflated housing market.

257
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:49,020
Union Studios' traditional site plans and authentic two and three bedrooms single family and

258
00:23:49,020 --> 00:23:56,860
complex home designs have been adopted by numerous communities on the Cape and can easily

259
00:23:56,860 --> 00:23:59,240
be seen today.

260
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:05,320
Union Studio presented their missing middle concept to five other towns on the Cape.

261
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,460
Let's not shortcut this process.

262
00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:13,200
It's too important for Chatham's future and thank you.

263
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,040
Thank you so much for that comment.

264
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:22,340
But before I respond to any of it, I just want to ask for a couple of clarifications just

265
00:24:22,340 --> 00:24:23,460
for my own notes.

266
00:24:24,140 --> 00:24:29,000
When you talked about the housing developments along 6A, and you mentioned Brewster,

267
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,540
and was the second community dentist that you mentioned, with a mix of housing.

268
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:33,820
Thank you.

269
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,480
And then when you talked about Union Studios and Missing Middle Design Concept, which

270
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:48,020
we're familiar with, did you say single family duplex and triplex or what, can you just

271
00:24:48,020 --> 00:24:51,020
and the housing types again that you see?

272
00:24:51,220 --> 00:24:58,160
Well, yes, yes, the two in Rooster and in Dennis are single family and doplexes, but the

273
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:05,200
middle missing concept that Union Studio has, as you well know, includes a number of different

274
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:13,720
types of missing middle homes that can be designed for communities that fit beautifully into those communities

275
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:20,400
rather than a large apartment buildings, or large homes on large lots.

276
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:27,580
So I think we have an important opportunity here to see what this firm has done in other

277
00:25:27,580 --> 00:25:31,940
communities right here on the Cape, particularly on the Cape.

278
00:25:36,980 --> 00:25:43,160
Okay. Sorry, I think we had someone with a hand up over here. I'm not trying to

279
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,500
to, you know, manage things too much, but I just noticed her and I wanted to make sure of

280
00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:50,180
before we went to someone else online that we recognized people in the room.

281
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:57,610
And one house over from the meeting house property where this land is going to be developed.

282
00:25:58,970 --> 00:26:01,490
And I'm just asking for clarification on affordable housing.

283
00:26:01,630 --> 00:26:05,990
It's my understanding that there's no criteria or requirement.

284
00:26:06,930 --> 00:26:07,150
I'm sorry.

285
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:10,690
Do you mind standing just a little bit closer to having a hard time hearing that?

286
00:26:11,030 --> 00:26:11,470
Thank you.

287
00:26:11,510 --> 00:26:16,090
I just have a basic question about affordable housing.

288
00:26:16,770 --> 00:26:18,490
And I'm asking for clarity.

289
00:26:19,150 --> 00:26:26,390
It's my understanding that there is no requirement for affordable housing residents to work

290
00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:28,790
in Chattam or even work on the Cape.

291
00:26:30,110 --> 00:26:32,550
They can get on a bus and go and work in Boston.

292
00:26:33,450 --> 00:26:38,030
I don't see how, and I understand the need for affordable housing, but I don't see how some

293
00:26:38,030 --> 00:26:45,890
of this or any of it is going to help Chattam with their problem based on there's no requirement,

294
00:26:45,890 --> 00:26:47,470
which I find really strange.

295
00:26:48,990 --> 00:26:54,930
Does Chatham have a local preference policy that includes a preference for people who work locally?

296
00:26:56,310 --> 00:27:00,450
I think our intent on these properties was as we would go through the process that we could

297
00:27:00,450 --> 00:27:06,710
weaken and likely will request the local preference of up to 70% which the local preference

298
00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:11,490
is somebody who lives here, works here, or has a child in the school system.

299
00:27:11,490 --> 00:27:19,670
And we can request up to 70%, the entire project cannot be 100% local preference, but we can

300
00:27:19,670 --> 00:27:21,970
request up to 70%.

301
00:27:21,970 --> 00:27:23,370
Okay, thank you.

302
00:27:23,930 --> 00:27:29,170
And my other question has to do with the development of what it's going to look like.

303
00:27:30,230 --> 00:27:37,850
The houses are relatively small, and my hope is that when you develop this, that you will

304
00:27:37,850 --> 00:27:42,450
keep in line with the neighborhood and the structures that currently exist.

305
00:27:44,790 --> 00:27:51,490
You know, when they cleared the land at 28 and meeting house road for the pump station,

306
00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:56,070
that was done to an extreme.

307
00:27:56,730 --> 00:28:00,030
It was done before the zoning board even heard from the abutters.

308
00:28:00,050 --> 00:28:04,250
The land had already been cleared, which is not the way to conduct business.

309
00:28:04,250 --> 00:28:09,310
So I hope that in keeping with respect to the abutters

310
00:28:09,310 --> 00:28:12,190
that those kinds of issues will be avoided going forward

311
00:28:12,190 --> 00:28:14,290
with this project, thanks.

312
00:28:15,010 --> 00:28:15,550
Thank you.

313
00:28:15,930 --> 00:28:21,530
I actually, I want to go back to a couple of the comments here

314
00:28:21,530 --> 00:28:23,350
before I call on anybody else.

315
00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:29,310
So I believe we already answered the question about local preference,

316
00:28:29,610 --> 00:28:30,710
which is helpful.

317
00:28:31,370 --> 00:28:48,670
And then to your question about whether the process will consider neighborhood context that some of what we're trying to learn from you tonight is what are the sorts of things that are very important for each parcel kind of distinct from each other, but then also as a whole for your community.

318
00:28:48,670 --> 00:28:53,190
And then I'll be kind of explaining, you know, perhaps I should have put this process

319
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:57,930
slide earlier in the presentation, but what will happen from what we hear tonight and what

320
00:28:57,930 --> 00:29:04,150
we hear from a visual preference survey that I'll be explaining is that the architectural

321
00:29:04,150 --> 00:29:08,490
landscape firm that we're working with Dodson and Flinker, they'll be taking that input

322
00:29:08,490 --> 00:29:14,370
and creating a few different scenarios for each site.

323
00:29:14,370 --> 00:29:21,330
And then at the next meeting, they will discuss kind of the trade-offs, the feasibility, and so on, for each site.

324
00:29:22,010 --> 00:29:26,830
But, you know, I imagine you're not going to be the only person that we hear, you know, sensitivity for neighborhood context from.

325
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:32,450
So that's an example of the type of thing that they would take into consideration and also talk about kind of the trade-offs.

326
00:29:32,530 --> 00:29:41,190
You know, does that mean fewer units? Does that mean, you know, you don't need to kind of be creative with funding sources, and so on.

327
00:29:41,190 --> 00:29:47,390
So we'll kind of make that second meeting really talk about those aspects of the feasibility

328
00:29:47,390 --> 00:29:47,970
of each.

329
00:29:48,450 --> 00:29:50,310
So I just wanted to make sure we address that.

330
00:29:50,390 --> 00:29:57,730
And then back to our first commenter who the comment about the concern with their only

331
00:29:57,730 --> 00:29:59,970
being one architectural firm as part.

332
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:08,080
This process, and Judy, you may want to also speak about the Union Studio Work and in a moment, but just to kind of

333
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:19,240
call anyone's concerns about that. The scenarios that Dodson and Flinker will be developing will be refined based on the feedback from the community.

334
00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:25,620
But also, what they're coming up with is not going to be a definitive plan for the site.

335
00:30:25,620 --> 00:30:32,380
The ultimate goal for this process is what we learn from the community and the concepts that

336
00:30:32,380 --> 00:30:38,720
Dodson and Flinker ultimately designs will help the town develop an RFP for the development

337
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,920
of each property based on kind of criteria that comes out of that process.

338
00:30:44,460 --> 00:30:49,380
So what Dodson comes up with is not necessarily going to be what ends up on the site.

339
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,520
That's going to go through a whole approval and permitting process with the town with a whole

340
00:30:54,520 --> 00:31:01,960
more opportunity for public comment and whatnot. So I just wanted to hopefully calm that concern.

341
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,290
And then Judy, the Union Studio work for the missing middle design concept in the cave that's

342
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:13,720
so they did support for the Cape Cod Commission and they had looked at different types of

343
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,240
village and neighborhood areas and to sort of show what could be done to accommodate

344
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:23,240
additional housing and one of the sites they looked at is in Orleans where we just finished

345
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,460
project with Union Studio on our team to kind of plan the redevelopment of the governor

346
00:31:28,460 --> 00:31:34,000
prints property. So, you know, I think whether it's Union Studio or Dodson Plinker,

347
00:31:34,140 --> 00:31:39,200
I think the real point is we're not designing the project. We're really trying to understand

348
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:45,200
what the concerns of the community are that need to be accommodated or accounted for in

349
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:50,640
what might be called sort of design guidance to potential developers who will eventually come

350
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,460
and actually do the project and whether they hire Union Studio

351
00:31:54,460 --> 00:31:56,900
as their architect or somebody else, we don't know.

352
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,960
But what is important, I can just tell you

353
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,100
because I've worked on RFPs like this before,

354
00:32:02,740 --> 00:32:04,660
is that the town needs to be able to give developers

355
00:32:04,660 --> 00:32:06,740
some sense of what the town is looking for.

356
00:32:07,220 --> 00:32:09,620
And so the beauty of a process like this

357
00:32:09,620 --> 00:32:12,960
with a landscape architect or an architect on the team

358
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,220
is that they're really good at kind of translating

359
00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:18,220
what the concerns are into sort of visualization

360
00:32:18,220 --> 00:32:24,140
That will be helpful to developers eventually in a disposition process for the property.

361
00:32:32,250 --> 00:32:32,530
Yeah.

362
00:32:32,790 --> 00:32:33,090
Steve Butler.

363
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:41,990
What you just said, I mean, I would construct some criticism about how to explain to people what's going on.

364
00:32:42,530 --> 00:32:47,930
Your presentation should have, you know, you showed the graph of the, you know,

365
00:32:48,050 --> 00:32:52,790
buying the land and then it's like where we are now and then it should have been like.

366
00:32:52,790 --> 00:32:57,370
And then this will happen, and then this will happen, and then it'll go to town meeting.

367
00:32:58,190 --> 00:33:00,390
So, and this will be your chance. Don't worry.

368
00:33:01,270 --> 00:33:05,290
This is where the concept, you know, and to let people know, because

369
00:33:05,290 --> 00:33:09,290
I think a lot of people have had experiences with the government before,

370
00:33:11,530 --> 00:33:14,070
next thing they do, they turn around, it's the fixes in.

371
00:33:14,710 --> 00:33:15,790
Oh, you missed that meeting.

372
00:33:16,730 --> 00:33:17,330
You missed it.

373
00:33:17,490 --> 00:33:20,770
Or, from what you've told us at the last session, this is what we're going to do.

374
00:33:20,770 --> 00:33:23,590
And like, no, I didn't say that, you know, or anyway.

375
00:33:23,890 --> 00:33:26,450
So if people don't attend this particular meeting,

376
00:33:27,430 --> 00:33:31,010
yes, the idea is that you don't lose your place in line

377
00:33:31,010 --> 00:33:31,830
or your object.

378
00:33:31,970 --> 00:33:36,070
So I've just suggest that perhaps at the next meeting,

379
00:33:36,330 --> 00:33:39,610
or even now if you have a graphic handy,

380
00:33:40,270 --> 00:33:42,250
that shows that maybe we were going to show it

381
00:33:42,250 --> 00:33:44,530
after this exercise here.

382
00:33:44,530 --> 00:33:47,010
That's my, I think people can understand

383
00:33:47,490 --> 00:33:49,810
that there will be plenty of opportunities for input

384
00:33:49,810 --> 00:34:00,210
And they won and and step so for and we have that graphic. Oh, but not here. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, we do have that graphic. Yeah, that's that's that's my

385
00:34:00,210 --> 00:34:07,850
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. That is an excellent point. I'll pull it up actually after we hear from

386
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:10,150
This individual.

387
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:19,500
Hi, I'm Megan story. I also live on meeting House Road and I just want to echo that I was on the zoning board when that

388
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:25,180
came through for the end of middle road, and I recognize the challenge and it won't happen again.

389
00:34:26,780 --> 00:34:31,260
That's not, we're not going to clear the land without some sort of plan in place.

390
00:34:31,780 --> 00:34:34,560
And I feel very strongly about that too, so I just want you to know,

391
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,500
I am on a affordable housing trust, so I have been part of this process from the beginning,

392
00:34:38,940 --> 00:34:41,880
was aware of some of the feedback that came through when that clear cutting did happen,

393
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,040
because, unfortunately, for the affordable housing trust had happened at the same time as we purchased,

394
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,920
the property so people assumed it was us because the property is right next door so just be

395
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,640
aware that this process is going to happen as they say and that there will be a lot of input.

396
00:34:55,140 --> 00:35:00,000
I'm sure more than a lot of input from those of us on meeting house and on Main Street.

397
00:35:02,420 --> 00:35:07,860
Thank you. So let me just to Mr. Buckley's point, let me just go over kind of the

398
00:35:08,420 --> 00:35:15,080
general timeline and then we'll invite any other comments. So after this meeting we're going to

399
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:19,100
talk about each site during this meeting and I want to kind of hear from you based on what you

400
00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:23,280
learn tonight if there's anything that you didn't know about each property, what things you

401
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:29,260
think might be appropriate for each site. So based on what we hear from not only this meeting,

402
00:35:29,580 --> 00:35:33,840
but also from a visual preference survey that will be launched in the month of January.

403
00:35:35,060 --> 00:35:40,180
Dodson and Flinker, the landscape architectural firm that we are working with, is going to be working

404
00:35:40,180 --> 00:35:43,180
on some concepts for each site.

405
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,800
We've already done site visits with Dodson Flinker

406
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,240
on both properties.

407
00:35:47,860 --> 00:35:51,880
So they've already visited, walked every little bit

408
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,140
of each property that they could.

409
00:35:54,020 --> 00:35:55,880
And so they have a pretty good understanding

410
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,820
of what the challenges are,

411
00:35:57,940 --> 00:36:00,240
associated with each site and what could potentially be done.

412
00:36:00,420 --> 00:36:02,860
And they want to hear community input as well.

413
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,040
So at that meeting, Dodson Flinker will share

414
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,760
those concepts and go over kind of those trade-offs,

415
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:16,100
feasibility of each scenario and get input on from the community about concerns they may have

416
00:36:16,100 --> 00:36:21,880
about each scenario. So then based on feedback from that and what we learn from Dodson

417
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:27,400
flink at that time, the affordable housing trust, you know, in conjunction with the select board,

418
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:35,180
will determine one or two concepts for each parcel that Dodson and Flink will then be refining.

419
00:36:36,180 --> 00:37:01,620
So those meetings with the housing trust and or select board, you know, those would be public meetings like any others and advertise and as part of this process discussing those scenarios and then at the third meeting which date is to be determined at this time, but those the final concepts one to two for each property would be presented to the public and the kind of reasons why that probably makes the most sense.

420
00:37:01,620 --> 00:37:09,700
And the hope, again, is that those concepts, then I'm not sure Katie, if the town's

421
00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:15,700
given thought to like who would be writing that RFP for each parcel, is it the community

422
00:37:15,700 --> 00:37:19,300
development department with the housing trust, how's that going to look?

423
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,760
We've begun determining whether or not town staff will actually write that or if we'll work

424
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,400
with a consultant to have that ran as well, so we've just begun to have those discussions.

425
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:29,680
spin.

426
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:36,300
If we need, if certainly, if we feel that we need further expertise, we will work with a consultant to do that.

427
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:46,460
Okay, great. And so that RFP then once a developer is selected to develop the property, that's been kind of all those permitting conversations would happen.

428
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,960
But the developer would be informed by this whole process.

429
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,680
Okay. All right. So then there was another.

430
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:54,700
Oh, sorry.

431
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,820
Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for coming.

432
00:38:00,820 --> 00:38:05,640
Um, can you pull the mission statement up again for the housing trust?

433
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,600
There's a couple of things if you can grab it again.

434
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,820
Oh, I, I don't know, I, I shared a quote from the HPP.

435
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:13,040
Right.

436
00:38:13,220 --> 00:38:14,020
That's what I'm looking for.

437
00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:14,240
Okay.

438
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:15,160
Okay.

439
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:21,860
Okay.

440
00:38:22,180 --> 00:38:25,880
So I agree with every statement that's, every sentence of that statement.

441
00:38:26,500 --> 00:38:28,460
I think some of the most important things are,

442
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,520
there, the housing diversity side of of of what is lacking in

443
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:39,340
Adam obviously rentals and housing and housing of all kinds of different kinds.

444
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:45,860
One thing that isn't in this statement in this quote is a pathway to ownership, meaning

445
00:38:45,860 --> 00:38:47,920
a rent-to-own opportunity.

446
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:53,620
So oftentimes we have rental, we have a Markone program in Chatham where you can rent

447
00:38:53,620 --> 00:38:55,960
the house and it's an equity bill.

448
00:38:56,540 --> 00:39:03,320
However, we've not had one single person by a house in Chattam after they fulfilled the term of their lease.

449
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,120
And that's the unfortunate piece there.

450
00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:12,200
And I think that when you have young professionals or young working families in town and you have a one or two veteran apartment

451
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:21,920
or you've got a home that is, you know, a small modest home is built and then you can rent it and then possibly own it at the end of the day.

452
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:28,000
That's lacking in this community, it's lacking in a lot of communities, and I think that that builds on

453
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:34,300
community sustainability, it builds on the idea that people, you know, want to participate in their community.

454
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,760
And I, you know, I feel that that's a really important piece that is missing out of this.

455
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,920
And when I speak to the 70%

456
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,760
a preference issue, that's great.

457
00:39:50,220 --> 00:39:52,820
And providing opportunity for chat and residences

458
00:39:52,820 --> 00:39:55,120
is should be a priority for us.

459
00:39:55,340 --> 00:39:57,600
However, there's a lot of people that have moved out of town

460
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,280
that have ties to the community and don't qualify

461
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:01,940
into that at all.

462
00:40:02,340 --> 00:40:04,240
Especially as somebody who's lived here

463
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:06,320
on my life and was my children here,

464
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,020
I have had one daughter who has had the opportunity

465
00:40:10,020 --> 00:40:12,440
to be able to own a home and chat them in the other one

466
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:18,980
lives in another town, she would never have the opportunity to move back to Chata, and they

467
00:40:18,980 --> 00:40:21,480
both fork and town, which is fortunate.

468
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:27,640
But there's a lot of my friends, my contemporaries, that have kids that have moved out and

469
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,400
moved to other parts of the Cape, and can't afford to live back in Chata.

470
00:40:31,620 --> 00:40:37,180
So I think that these kind of things are important to consider when we think about the 70%, but

471
00:40:37,180 --> 00:40:42,420
I also want to say, when somebody actually turns a key and opens a door and lives in

472
00:40:42,420 --> 00:40:46,440
in Chatham, they are a Chatham resident from that day forward.

473
00:40:47,180 --> 00:40:47,900
Thank you.

474
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,100
Can I just ask, I'm sorry for clarification.

475
00:40:52,420 --> 00:40:56,400
What was the program that you mentioned that exists in Chatham, but that has not been

476
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:57,160
any...

477
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:57,620
I don't know any.

478
00:40:58,140 --> 00:40:58,420
Okay.

479
00:41:04,340 --> 00:41:04,580
Right.

480
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:04,900
That's fine.

481
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,160
I just...

482
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:06,520
Curious.

483
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:07,000
Thank you.

484
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:12,620
We do have an online question from our comment from Tracy Cannon, and then we could go back

485
00:41:12,620 --> 00:41:13,700
to the live audience.

486
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:15,800
Go ahead, Tracy.

487
00:41:17,180 --> 00:41:17,640
Hi.

488
00:41:18,180 --> 00:41:19,320
I'm Tracy Cannon.

489
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:25,880
I'm the executive director of the chat, I'm housing authority, as well as the vice chair of the housing partnership.

490
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:32,160
I just wanted to briefly, I tried, it was just trying to comment back to the first

491
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:38,100
gal that spoke that lives on meeting house for a regarding, regarding a local preference.

492
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:43,660
I just wanted to reassure her because I know there is a lot of misinformation out there.

493
00:41:43,660 --> 00:41:50,580
I'm the monitoring agent for the, for Lake Street apartments as well as my own housing authority.

494
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:56,340
And Lake Street was tasked with being 75% local preference.

495
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:04,040
And I just did their annual renewal and their at 98% local preference right now.

496
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:13,320
So I just wanted to reassure people that even though I know there's a concern at all times that if you put

497
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:18,880
housing in, there's going to be no stopping people from moving from off Cape Town here.

498
00:42:19,380 --> 00:42:21,360
It just organically doesn't happen.

499
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,900
My housing at the housing authority is, you know, I have, you know, we have preferences,

500
00:42:27,180 --> 00:42:30,600
we have local preferences, and veteran preferences.

501
00:42:31,180 --> 00:42:34,940
And I know that it's a big concern for a lot of people out there.

502
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:40,760
And it, it just, people don't, people don't move to the Cape to live in affordable housing.

503
00:42:40,820 --> 00:42:41,920
It just doesn't happen.

504
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,780
all of the people that we lease up, in my 10 years at the housing authority, I think I've

505
00:42:46,780 --> 00:42:54,180
released up maybe three people from off-kate and they get to, and everybody gets a local

506
00:42:54,180 --> 00:42:54,700
preference.

507
00:42:55,780 --> 00:43:00,060
So if you're living in the town now, I understand where, what we're showing you is talking

508
00:43:00,060 --> 00:43:05,700
about two words, hard because people that have grown up in this town can't come back and

509
00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:11,780
buy in this town and that's very hard, but as far as the rentals that I manage are concerned

510
00:43:11,780 --> 00:43:18,580
just on a just in general it never drops ever below 75% local preference.

511
00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:24,580
And also just to you guys, if anybody has any questions regarding the Marconi project, I also run that.

512
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,260
So anyway, I just wanted to reassure that the Gallic, I'm sorry to remember a name,

513
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:34,240
but the Gall子 spoke at the beginning about the local preference because I know it's a big concern for a lot of people.

514
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:34,880
So,

515
00:43:38,730 --> 00:43:39,430
the question here,

516
00:43:42,340 --> 00:43:46,560
is there any chance that I could come over there because my eyesight's not so hot?

517
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:47,720
I've got a little more light.

518
00:43:48,140 --> 00:43:48,440
Oh, sure.

519
00:43:57,150 --> 00:43:59,530
Good evening everybody and happy holiday.

520
00:44:00,450 --> 00:44:09,430
Thank you for reaching out to your community and presenting an informational presentation on affordable housing attainable housing projects and chat.

521
00:44:09,730 --> 00:44:15,610
We have a few questions and I hope the housing board will respond tonight to our queries.

522
00:44:15,610 --> 00:44:24,290
Number one, in less than a month we have had two criminal crimes committed by residents of affordable housing facilities.

523
00:44:24,970 --> 00:44:31,710
One living in Lake Street complex in Chatham and one under 28 in Harwich Housing.

524
00:44:32,470 --> 00:44:36,850
One incident under investigation resulted in the death of an argument.

525
00:44:36,850 --> 00:44:55,270
And the other, in a hold-up at gunpoint, anyone living in Chatham has to consider locking their cars and homes as a result of a Lake Street resident following a man from an ATM machine in Hionis and taking his money at gunpoint.

526
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:59,390
How can we make sure this does not become a common occurrence?

527
00:44:59,390 --> 00:44:59,970
with...

528
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:28,360
We've been affordable housing developments. What measures have been put in place to check past police records and to process background checks? How do we ensure the safety of other residents in the affordable housing community and the rest of our town? Please give us some reassurance. We know that we have a terrific police force, but the applications for affordable lottery must have safety measures in place as well.

529
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:38,060
Number two question, we need a clear explanation of the process used for accepting applicants for affordable attainable housing.

530
00:45:38,780 --> 00:45:44,800
We understand the monetary salary requirements and ceilings. What are the additional criteria?

531
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:53,040
We have heard that single women and men are a lower priority compared to young adults with children.

532
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:58,980
reason the need to compensate for the lower yearly attendance in our

533
00:45:58,980 --> 00:46:04,600
chatom school classrooms. If this is the case, it means that young singles

534
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,600
working in chatom have less chance of winning the lottery. It also means

535
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:15,090
elderly applicants are at risk of failing to move to affordable units and

536
00:46:15,340 --> 00:46:19,920
downsize from their present homes which are no longer sustainable to those

537
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:27,120
on fixed income. Please provide us with a priority list that is used to process applicants

538
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:31,640
as well as to make the final decisions on lottery winners.

539
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:39,040
Number three question. We know what our taxpayer funds have purchased today. Two parcels

540
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:44,100
of land for a little less than two million dollars. What we don't know is how much we

541
00:46:44,100 --> 00:46:51,340
have already spent on design, project manager fees, engineering fees, trustee expenses, and

542
00:46:51,340 --> 00:46:53,800
all the unknown expenses ahead.

543
00:46:54,480 --> 00:47:00,340
Do we the citizens of Chatham pay for installation of utilities, sewer, solar panels,

544
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:12,980
laying of new roads and cut cul-de-sax, generators, air conditioning and heating and all

545
00:47:12,980 --> 00:47:20,820
building codes in place called, I believe, stretch. It will be, it will necessitate all affordable

546
00:47:20,820 --> 00:47:27,260
and attainable units and houses to be built solely for use of electric heat, cooling, and

547
00:47:27,260 --> 00:47:34,240
accessory generators. Please give us a realistic breakdown of the total costs for the two upcoming

548
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:40,300
projects. Keeping in mind the most recent rises in the cost of building in Chadman, I realize

549
00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:49,200
that's down the road, but what are we responsible for, financially, and what would a developer

550
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:55,760
who agrees to work on these projects be responsible for? What kind of incentives is the

551
00:47:55,760 --> 00:48:01,880
housing trust planning to offer developers to bring them into these projects? They're going

552
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:08,140
to want to make money. This major long-term capital project will affect our tax bill directly

553
00:48:08,140 --> 00:48:12,640
as well as through continuing youths of CPA funds and free cash.

554
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:14,960
And we need to plan for the future.

555
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,720
Some on fixed income may not be able to stay in Chattam

556
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:22,420
as these ongoing affordable housing projects will continue

557
00:48:22,420 --> 00:48:24,300
and the cost will be great.

558
00:48:24,780 --> 00:48:27,380
Finally, we request a full disclosure

559
00:48:27,380 --> 00:48:31,160
of how the town plans to deal with the required

560
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,600
infrastructure for hundreds of new residents living

561
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,080
in brand new houses and rental units.

562
00:48:39,180 --> 00:48:41,820
Just last week, during the Christmas stroll events,

563
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:44,820
we had another brief power outage.

564
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,740
Every source blamed it on equipment failure.

565
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,520
The same company months ago, warn that we'll

566
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,440
be deliberate power outages this winter

567
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:59,500
due to a lack of enough fuel and electric resources.

568
00:49:01,660 --> 00:49:05,340
The affordable projects slated for Chadham

569
00:49:05,340 --> 00:49:10,220
will require more year-round, potable water and gas and electricity.

570
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:15,360
At present, many of our wells are out of service for annual maintenance and testing,

571
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:20,540
and some are not used at all during winter months as the population drops dramatically.

572
00:49:21,340 --> 00:49:26,020
That will be changed by new year-round, affordable, attainable communities.

573
00:49:26,020 --> 00:49:33,360
how are the change, how excuse me, are the town administrators and the affordable housing

574
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,140
trust planning to mitigate these serious problems.

575
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,060
Thank you for any answers to these inquiries.

576
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:46,100
We want to be informed as we the taxpayers of chat, are the sponsors of this challenging

577
00:49:46,100 --> 00:49:46,660
project.

578
00:49:47,540 --> 00:49:48,360
Thank you.

579
00:49:54,750 --> 00:49:55,630
How do you want to respond?

580
00:49:56,170 --> 00:49:56,210
Sure.

581
00:49:56,870 --> 00:50:01,210
So obviously, some of those questions, you know, we certainly can't answer tonight as

582
00:50:01,210 --> 00:50:08,010
based on the fact that we haven't come up with a design proposal, we haven't crafted an RFP

583
00:50:08,010 --> 00:50:15,110
at this point in time. But I do know that there was, I believe that Tracy Cannon had

584
00:50:15,110 --> 00:50:21,370
raised her hand, and I don't know if she wanted to respond as she actually does the

585
00:50:21,370 --> 00:50:25,810
lotteries for the properties for the Marconi Programmen for the Housing Authority, so she may

586
00:50:25,810 --> 00:50:28,850
able to answer some of the lottery specific questions.

587
00:50:29,370 --> 00:50:30,510
Great, thank you.

588
00:50:31,650 --> 00:50:37,490
Hi, I don't, the lottery stuff again, if you kind of jump hands on, we need to get a little

589
00:50:37,490 --> 00:50:38,490
further down the road.

590
00:50:38,990 --> 00:50:44,750
Before we can answer how the lottery will be structured, because it depends obviously on what

591
00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:45,650
is going to go there.

592
00:50:45,810 --> 00:50:50,210
I mean, obviously, what we decide, you know, so we're at the very beginning here of trying

593
00:50:50,210 --> 00:50:54,950
to decide what's going to go in, is it going to be 80% AMI, is it going to be 120% as

594
00:50:54,950 --> 00:51:01,590
going to be 200% so all of that stuff is going to have to um is going to have to we'll have to

595
00:51:01,590 --> 00:51:07,250
be looking at that as we go along but again it's something that can be discussed and it's something

596
00:51:07,250 --> 00:51:13,090
that I encourage everybody to to give input on I think it's you know I think we can there there

597
00:51:13,090 --> 00:51:18,130
are different ways to do it basically and once we figure out what's going there we can figure out

598
00:51:18,130 --> 00:51:22,450
what we want to you know how we want to approach it from a lottery standpoint. I did want to speak

599
00:51:22,450 --> 00:51:30,050
very briefly to the crime piece, I just wanted to say that we've done studies over the years

600
00:51:30,050 --> 00:51:35,450
because that is another, I'm not going to call it a myth, but I would say it is an exaggeration

601
00:51:36,110 --> 00:51:42,690
that, you know, that this is these affordable housing brings crime. We actually asked the police

602
00:51:42,690 --> 00:51:50,130
chief of five or so years ago to do a study for us and it turned out that I believe it was less

603
00:51:50,130 --> 00:51:55,090
Just over 1% of all calls to the police station had anything to do with the Fort of War

604
00:51:55,090 --> 00:51:55,950
low-income housing.

605
00:51:56,690 --> 00:52:01,410
The gentleman that she's speaking of up on Bell Road is not a tenant.

606
00:52:01,770 --> 00:52:05,630
He's a somebody that knew a tenant up there.

607
00:52:05,870 --> 00:52:12,010
But there are, there's a, I don't know what the statistics are now that police chief could

608
00:52:12,010 --> 00:52:18,750
probably tell us, but I know that it is, I do believe it is a bit of a myth that this

609
00:52:18,750 --> 00:52:25,990
bring we'll bring crime because I know that it's not we are my neighborhood down on

610
00:52:25,990 --> 00:52:29,970
crawl road is you know it's we have minimal I mean we have a lot of it

611
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:35,520
PMT calls, because we have an elderly population, but we have minimal police calls.

612
00:52:36,540 --> 00:52:42,040
I just want to be sure that everybody understands that that that is not bringing an affordable

613
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,020
housing is not going to increase the crime rate in the time of the show.

614
00:52:45,700 --> 00:52:46,980
Anyway, thank you.

615
00:52:47,820 --> 00:52:48,420
Thank you, Tracy.

616
00:52:48,720 --> 00:52:54,100
And Chief Anderson is here if he's able to make a brief, Chief Anderson is here if he's able

617
00:52:54,100 --> 00:52:55,420
to make a brief comment.

618
00:52:55,420 --> 00:52:56,560
Thank

619
00:52:59,660 --> 00:53:15,100
you. I did bring some data from that study that Tracy referred to. It was 2017, and we looked at seven geographical areas of affordable housing in town.

620
00:53:15,740 --> 00:53:20,160
And I don't have the actual report, but I just have the basic statistics.

621
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:31,830
There were 32,566 total calls for service townwide.

622
00:53:33,350 --> 00:53:38,910
Out of that 32,905 came from affordable housing locations.

623
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:51,200
The affordable housing locations represent 5.85% of the police calls for service in 2017.

624
00:53:51,460 --> 00:54:01,740
So that is a very low number, affordable housing locations represent 7.7 of the criminal

625
00:54:01,740 --> 00:54:04,140
fences in town of 2017.

626
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:10,880
If we would to do another study which I'd be happy to do, if we

627
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:16,720
need it, I would expect those numbers to either stay the same or lower simply because

628
00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:26,460
since 2017 the overall crimes in town in general we've been a very favorable trend of low

629
00:54:26,460 --> 00:54:28,460
crime rate and decreasing crime in town.

630
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:30,120
We've been very favorable, very lucky.

631
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,320
And again, just to confirm what Tracy said,

632
00:54:33,420 --> 00:54:34,880
I can't speak for the incident in Howard,

633
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,440
but I can say that the incident that was recently

634
00:54:39,060 --> 00:54:41,560
in town here, the subject involved

635
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,440
was not a chatroom resident or a housing authority resident.

636
00:54:44,660 --> 00:54:47,740
He was an associate of someone on the lease there,

637
00:54:48,180 --> 00:54:49,780
so if anybody else has any questions.

638
00:54:51,980 --> 00:54:52,720
Thank you, Chief.

639
00:54:52,940 --> 00:54:53,360
Thank you.

640
00:54:57,340 --> 00:54:59,240
Are there any other comments online?

641
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,120
I see Rick Levitt has his hand up.

642
00:55:06,140 --> 00:55:06,680
Thank you, Katie.

643
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,720
Yeah, all of the social studies that have been made,

644
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:18,050
and all of the studies of town planning that have been made,

645
00:55:18,290 --> 00:55:21,210
deal with this subject and deal with the problem.

646
00:55:22,050 --> 00:55:27,190
And the way it's solved is simply you have mixed income,

647
00:55:27,710 --> 00:55:32,350
housing, not housing that is all one low income

648
00:55:32,350 --> 00:55:39,590
all higher income. You mix them together. That's the brilliance of

649
00:55:39,590 --> 00:55:45,390
Chatham's comprehensive plan. It's there. Take a minute to read it. Take

650
00:55:45,390 --> 00:55:50,810
an hour to read it. But you mix when we develop as we develop as we

651
00:55:50,810 --> 00:56:00,510
should. Our need for a diverse house, a diverse workforce and population.

652
00:56:00,510 --> 00:56:09,750
we want to see a mix of incomes, not concentrated, low income or concentrated high income.

653
00:56:11,250 --> 00:56:12,190
Thank you.

654
00:56:14,410 --> 00:56:15,210
Thank you.

655
00:56:17,050 --> 00:56:18,450
We have no more hands up online.

656
00:56:18,770 --> 00:56:19,890
Okay, all right, great.

657
00:56:20,350 --> 00:56:23,830
So I'm going to go back to the presentation.

658
00:56:24,910 --> 00:56:29,090
Just to go over the next question relating to the housing production plan in particular.

659
00:56:29,090 --> 00:56:35,670
And then we'll move on to talking about each of the properties and the kind of specifics for each property.

660
00:56:35,830 --> 00:56:37,830
All right.

661
00:56:40,140 --> 00:56:42,140
I hope I am going to have to

662
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:46,280
go back though because now I'm...

663
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:46,820
Oh, no.

664
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:47,640
You know what? I'm going to exit.

665
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:51,240
I'm on the totally wrong slide from trying to skip ahead to show you the process slides.

666
00:56:51,420 --> 00:56:52,680
So just give me just a moment.

667
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:56,020
All right.

668
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:57,180
Now I'm on the right slide.

669
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:05,520
Okay.

670
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:18,980
So another thing we wanted to point out from the 2018 housing production plan that really led to a lot of the plans goals and strategies were these kind of high priorities and it boils down to four priorities in the plan.

671
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:24,880
And we want to hear from you of this list, what do you think is the highest priority today?

672
00:57:25,700 --> 00:57:31,100
Why? And then how can the opportunities on these two properties help address these needs?

673
00:57:31,100 --> 00:57:37,340
So the 2018 Housing Production Plan found that the lack or the need for affordable year-round

674
00:57:37,340 --> 00:57:42,700
housing was a top priority, a rental housing, affordable year-round mental housing, affordable

675
00:57:42,700 --> 00:57:48,740
home ownership opportunities, home improvement resources such as deferred maintenance, lead

676
00:57:48,740 --> 00:57:52,080
remediation, septic system repair or replacement.

677
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:59,920
And then the fourth high priority need being barrier-free, accessible units and supportive

678
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:03,700
services to meet the needs of an aging population and those with disabilities.

679
00:58:04,460 --> 00:58:09,020
So these were the four really key needs identified in the 2018 Housing Production

680
00:58:09,020 --> 00:58:09,380
Plan.

681
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:15,000
We would like to hear from you, are there any of those that you think today are really especially

682
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:21,140
significant and that this opportunity with these two properties can really help address?

683
00:58:23,940 --> 00:58:26,680
And then lastly, are there any other needs not identified?

684
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,760
That's what was found in 2018 is being key priorities.

685
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:35,780
We heard some other good feedback this evening, any other needs that you would add.

686
00:58:53,980 --> 00:58:56,820
Hello, Carol McClellan, I'm chair of the Community Housing Partnership.

687
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:04,040
Carol McClellan chair of the Community Housing Partnership.

688
00:59:04,900 --> 00:59:10,100
I would just like to say certainly that the top two items there, your me around rentals,

689
00:59:10,300 --> 00:59:14,900
and housing ownership opportunities would be top of my list.

690
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:34,160
Obviously, from everything you've already heard and the work you've already done, the rentals are so needed and I just want to speak to a comment before about, you know, not having the town having to overspend its resources to develop the housing or even the water and not having enough water.

691
00:59:34,580 --> 00:59:42,120
And this is about our values. If we want to control how the town uses its resources, we can make lots of different choices.

692
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:49,080
You can look in the mirror and decide if you're using personally using too much water on your lawn rather than deny someone a homeowner

693
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:54,540
Housing, never mind home ownership or just housing. These are things we just need to do as a community and

694
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:59,840
I had a statistic from booster that they had 70

695
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:07,640
People apply for 5-1 bedroom units. I mean, the need is overwhelming. And just in regards to specifically

696
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:14,980
chat on people, you know, that, you know, people in a lower-case people who live here, whether

697
01:00:14,980 --> 01:00:19,780
they live here, 10 years ago moved away, whether they work here, they're part of our community.

698
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:26,360
We can't get hung up on this one type of pedigree that we can only have those people, and we

699
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:31,540
have to build for those people specifically. Obviously, we'll include the people who are here and

700
01:00:31,540 --> 01:00:36,900
make sure that they're allowed to be in the lottery that they qualify, but it can't be them or no

701
01:00:36,900 --> 01:00:40,040
one. We have to have a bigger ten. Thank you.

702
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,580
Thank you. Over here.

703
01:00:49,460 --> 01:00:51,460
Hello. I'm Janet Woodemore,

704
01:00:51,460 --> 01:01:00,500
727 Main Street in Chattam. I would just like to say, I would love to see whatever we're going

705
01:01:00,500 --> 01:01:10,040
abilities, housing, housing will be sustainable products, and that our emphasis will be

706
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:20,480
with concern for our environment, which would include a solar, and I definitely agree with

707
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:32,560
of its points. I feel that just one company you mentioned is I'm a little perplexed

708
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:42,680
why the town is just chosen one company. I know that many my experience in the past is that

709
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:52,920
ask for input from multiple and why did the town choose Dodson if you would like to see that

710
01:01:52,920 --> 01:02:07,140
transparency. And my last statement is we have an aging community in Chattam and I have a lot

711
01:02:07,140 --> 01:02:17,100
friends who are contemporaries, and that can afford housing here, is there going to be

712
01:02:17,100 --> 01:02:22,700
housing for elderly included, and I love the idea that mixed use.

713
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:30,180
We need a community, not with people here, people here, people there, a mixed community,

714
01:02:30,700 --> 01:02:32,200
mixed for a better community.

715
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:33,540
That's all I have to say.

716
01:02:33,580 --> 01:02:34,940
Thank you.

717
01:02:34,940 --> 01:02:41,700
If I could just clarify that when we began the process of looking at this community engagement,

718
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:49,460
the town did put out an RFP, Barrett Consulting Group, did Barrett Planning Group responded to that

719
01:02:49,460 --> 01:02:55,800
RFP amongst, I believe, one or two other firms. So we did go through the transparency process.

720
01:02:56,080 --> 01:03:01,720
We did it appropriately. We put out an RFP. They made a proposal that we thought was appropriate

721
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:08,640
and when we entered into a contract with bearer planning group who was also consulting with

722
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:12,320
Dodson and Flinker. So the process, the appropriate process was followed.

723
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:28,400
Thank you everybody. This has been very informative for me. My name is Joan Craig and I live

724
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:36,640
in West Chatham, and I am of the aging population. But I also agree with what Sharon said earlier.

725
01:03:36,640 --> 01:04:02,580
When I see young individuals leaving the cape moving over the bridge but working here, and I also see so many businesses in town that are either closing or shutting down Mondays and Tuesdays Wednesdays, cutting their hours during the day, during the summer.

726
01:04:02,580 --> 01:04:13,400
This is a destination place, we are in trouble, as is many destination places throughout and the Cape especially.

727
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:22,800
I agree with the mixed individuals that could live together.

728
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:31,020
I also agree with the idea that individuals who did grow up in Chatham,

729
01:04:31,020 --> 01:04:37,220
and want to come back to Chattam, have the ability to put their name in.

730
01:04:37,380 --> 01:04:40,020
I think that's something that we could look at.

731
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:46,420
I'm concerned that we are in age and population, we need the youngsters.

732
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:54,320
When I see the graph that you show in that, I think you said somewhere around the 18 to 40 years,

733
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:55,620
it's sort of leveled off.

734
01:04:55,900 --> 01:04:56,980
That's a good thing.

735
01:04:56,980 --> 01:05:04,940
But I also think those individuals are leaving because they can't afford, they can't afford to rent here.

736
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:08,020
There's nothing to rent here, let alone buy.

737
01:05:08,380 --> 01:05:15,460
And I also liked the idea of renting with the possible future option to buy.

738
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,060
So that's just my comments. Thank you.

739
01:05:18,300 --> 01:05:19,680
Thank you.

740
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:22,640
Is there anyone online with comments?

741
01:05:29,050 --> 01:05:32,190
Sorry, I apologize, I hit the wrong button.

742
01:05:32,370 --> 01:05:34,430
Yeah, it's Rick Levin again.

743
01:05:38,090 --> 01:05:39,730
Okay, Rick, if you will hold it for just one moment,

744
01:05:39,810 --> 01:05:40,910
we have someone at the microphone,

745
01:05:40,990 --> 01:05:43,030
and then we'll get to your question, thank you.

746
01:05:43,150 --> 01:05:45,230
Gloria Hicks, nine, five meeting house road.

747
01:05:47,370 --> 01:05:50,970
I feel very strongly that the property being developed,

748
01:05:51,570 --> 01:05:54,070
one house over for me, remain rental.

749
01:05:55,150 --> 01:05:58,830
I own a home, I know how much it costs to maintain a home.

750
01:05:58,830 --> 01:06:06,590
And if you're having a hard time paying rent or owning a home in Chatham, it's just unreasonable

751
01:06:07,450 --> 01:06:10,030
to think that people are going to keep up with the property.

752
01:06:11,270 --> 01:06:16,050
We already have a rat problem in the neighborhood, which I don't expect to get any better.

753
01:06:17,650 --> 01:06:20,570
And the town has been called about that twice.

754
01:06:22,430 --> 01:06:31,390
And we need some kind of a maintenance organization to be able to call to be able to contact for issues.

755
01:06:31,890 --> 01:06:33,650
There's already issues on the street.

756
01:06:33,790 --> 01:06:41,610
I mean, Chief Anderson can speak to the traffic on 137 and the speeding that goes on there.

757
01:06:41,790 --> 01:06:42,870
We don't have a sidewalk.

758
01:06:43,790 --> 01:06:45,930
There are a lot of issues in the neighborhood currently.

759
01:06:47,610 --> 01:06:50,770
So, it's very expensive to own a home in Chatham.

760
01:06:51,950 --> 01:06:54,850
So, I really hope that this remains rental

761
01:06:54,850 --> 01:06:59,150
because I don't see people keeping up.

762
01:06:59,150 --> 01:07:01,250
It's hard to keep up with property in Chatham.

763
01:07:02,510 --> 01:07:03,230
Thank you.

764
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:08,860
If we could go to Rick Levitt

765
01:07:08,860 --> 01:07:11,740
and then another question from the live audience after that?

766
01:07:11,980 --> 01:07:13,600
I think you have actually two from the audience.

767
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:14,280
Okay.

768
01:07:16,450 --> 01:07:17,190
Am I up, Katie?

769
01:07:17,930 --> 01:07:18,750
Yes, go ahead, Rick.

770
01:07:19,930 --> 01:07:20,610
Thank you.

771
01:07:21,670 --> 01:07:29,890
I obviously want to thank one of the previous speakers for mentioning me, and...

772
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:40,040
The concept of mixed income. I want to stress simply that that concept is not new. It's been around

773
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:52,250
for centuries. It's the authentic community that Chatham was 50, 60, 70 years ago before the changes

774
01:07:52,250 --> 01:08:01,250
have occurred. We had mixed income, village centers, where people live together, of all

775
01:08:01,250 --> 01:08:11,250
incomes. That is the path back to where we want to get to, who preserve chatams, cultural

776
01:08:11,250 --> 01:08:17,430
legacy. The other issues that have been brought up here are all legitimate, and they can

777
01:08:17,430 --> 01:08:24,770
be dealt with, but the most important issue that we're facing is deciding as a community amongst

778
01:08:24,770 --> 01:08:31,110
ourselves. Do we want to live together or do we want to live in a segregated community?

779
01:08:33,070 --> 01:08:33,670
Thank you.

780
01:08:41,260 --> 01:08:45,380
Just to point out with regard to socioeconomic diversity in these communities,

781
01:08:45,700 --> 01:08:49,910
there will be somewhat of a challenge because you have to fit it within the confines of what's

782
01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:55,490
legally acceptable. So I think that, you know, we shouldn't be expecting multi-million dollar houses

783
01:08:56,070 --> 01:09:00,290
and low-income housing in a development. And I hear a little of that, so I want to point

784
01:09:00,290 --> 01:09:09,230
that out. But I also think it's important to note and I have connections in both, I marry to a

785
01:09:09,230 --> 01:09:13,810
commercial fisherman, I work in hospitality, and I work off Cape for Google. So I have like a whole

786
01:09:13,810 --> 01:09:21,870
of different perspectives into what is going on with young professionals, and actually I have

787
01:09:21,870 --> 01:09:27,590
an elderly mother on KF2, so I think that we need to recognize that there's some thinly

788
01:09:27,590 --> 01:09:33,030
veiled, I'm going to call it socioeconomic discrimination happening here, and that we are very

789
01:09:33,030 --> 01:09:37,990
concerned about the 70% being connected to Chatham, but that doesn't look like it did 40 years ago,

790
01:09:37,990 --> 01:09:45,170
And I think that we need to be aware of that when we are talking about it and being inclusive,

791
01:09:45,630 --> 01:09:51,070
it's not going to necessarily look like only fishermen or only, you know,

792
01:09:51,230 --> 01:09:51,990
chatem of the 1980s.

793
01:09:53,170 --> 01:09:54,470
There are a lot of people here now.

794
01:09:54,510 --> 01:09:56,570
They've come to work at chatemars in.

795
01:09:56,630 --> 01:09:57,750
They make good salaries.

796
01:09:57,870 --> 01:10:00,870
Not enough to buy a million dollar house, but good salaries.

797
01:10:00,990 --> 01:10:02,390
They work in restaurants.

798
01:10:02,790 --> 01:10:04,670
They work in Boston.

799
01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:06,390
And they still don't make enough money to live here.

800
01:10:06,390 --> 01:10:10,250
So I just want to make sure that we are opening ourselves

801
01:10:10,250 --> 01:10:13,810
and being really truly inclusive and not just thinking

802
01:10:13,810 --> 01:10:16,930
about that 70% as sort of a chasm of the 80s,

803
01:10:17,050 --> 01:10:19,790
which is what I generally hear when I'm listening.

804
01:10:21,730 --> 01:10:22,390
Thank you.

805
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:39,260
Okay, just also I want to echo what Mr. Levitt said

806
01:10:39,260 --> 01:10:44,100
about the mixed income, having a broad range of different AMIs

807
01:10:44,100 --> 01:10:47,400
and housing size in it, given you, and I wholly support.

808
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:52,760
But I also want to speak to one of the previous comments about affordable housing ownership

809
01:10:53,440 --> 01:10:55,820
those folks being able to maintain their properties.

810
01:10:56,640 --> 01:11:00,600
I live in our affordable house, you can come by my house anytime and see if it needs

811
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:03,160
the standards and then it might neighbors have a problem.

812
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:06,500
We do have a broad range of people in this community.

813
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,580
I know there are some people who own their own property.

814
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:16,500
They're not affordable housing and the town has to do a lot to try to get them to take care of their property.

815
01:11:16,500 --> 01:11:19,040
It's come up many times at different boards.

816
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:22,380
So it doesn't matter whether you're in a photo housing,

817
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:23,820
or if you're a private citizen,

818
01:11:24,860 --> 01:11:25,980
different people have different perspectives

819
01:11:25,980 --> 01:11:28,360
on what they want to do with their homes.

820
01:11:28,440 --> 01:11:30,680
And I would say that for the most part,

821
01:11:31,100 --> 01:11:33,260
those in a photo housing are under more scrutiny,

822
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:37,840
and are more aware of the fact that if they have something

823
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:39,540
out there long or something, someone's

824
01:11:39,540 --> 01:11:42,480
going to call a complaint, where is the private citizen

825
01:11:42,480 --> 01:11:45,180
can do whatever they want and nobody complains about it.

826
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:46,160
But there's certainly a lot of folks

827
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:52,720
out there that do that, and I think it's inappropriate to target people because they're lower

828
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:55,100
income that they're not going to be good stewards of their property.

829
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,200
Thank you.

830
01:11:57,480 --> 01:11:58,560
Thank you.

831
01:12:01,530 --> 01:12:07,810
One suggestion about a need is that the relating to a lot of the transparency and public engagement.

832
01:12:10,810 --> 01:12:17,210
I would suggest that there have been other projects in the past where a dedicated web page

833
01:12:17,210 --> 01:12:22,350
has been set up and so that people don't have to figure out, well, do I go to this committee

834
01:12:22,350 --> 01:12:28,930
or do I go here or where do I find it on the web site, even if there was a dedicated web

835
01:12:28,930 --> 01:12:34,810
page, then yes, everybody could land there, there could be concept drawings, what happened

836
01:12:34,810 --> 01:12:40,510
that the last meeting, the PowerPoint from tonight's meeting, maybe perhaps an email alert

837
01:12:41,550 --> 01:12:47,190
function, so every time something was added to the web page, you get an email to

838
01:12:47,190 --> 01:12:52,110
I use something new is there, and you won't get lost in the shuffle and so forth and so on.

839
01:12:52,270 --> 01:12:58,990
So I think, because I think the domain enemy to a lot of this going through is the fact

840
01:12:58,990 --> 01:13:01,670
when people get confused, they say no.

841
01:13:03,030 --> 01:13:07,590
And so at the more they know and the more you can make it understandable, what's the difference

842
01:13:07,590 --> 01:13:09,370
between a affordable and attainable?

843
01:13:09,430 --> 01:13:12,630
Oh my goodness, you know, there's just a whole lot of stuff to confuse people.

844
01:13:12,630 --> 01:13:16,910
So anything to make it more transparent and more clear

845
01:13:16,910 --> 01:13:19,870
to the average person, I think is more people

846
01:13:19,870 --> 01:13:21,470
buy into it that much sooner.

847
01:13:22,090 --> 01:13:22,810
So that's my second question.

848
01:13:22,890 --> 01:13:24,670
Thank you.

849
01:13:24,850 --> 01:13:26,070
Thank you.

850
01:13:26,070 --> 01:13:26,550
Thank you, sir.

851
01:13:26,590 --> 01:13:28,490
And then that is something that we had anticipated

852
01:13:28,490 --> 01:13:31,090
that we would be doing as we move forward

853
01:13:31,090 --> 01:13:35,050
is to have a dedicated website for the projects

854
01:13:35,050 --> 01:13:35,990
as we move them forward.

855
01:13:36,570 --> 01:13:38,910
We do have another hand raised online, Tracy Cannon.

856
01:13:42,150 --> 01:13:43,550
Hi, I just wanted to speak really quickly

857
01:13:43,550 --> 01:13:52,170
what Megan was just saying about the different, I'm noticing it's a really big, a new

858
01:13:52,170 --> 01:13:52,450
thing.

859
01:13:52,650 --> 01:13:57,070
I've been in this for 10 years and I'm noticing a really, really, a really difficult new

860
01:13:57,070 --> 01:13:57,450
thing.

861
01:13:57,630 --> 01:14:04,270
And that is the workers that she was talking about, I have multiple families, I've actually

862
01:14:04,270 --> 01:14:09,730
got three families right now that I'm working with, that are making too much money to live

863
01:14:09,730 --> 01:14:10,450
in my housing.

864
01:14:10,450 --> 01:14:13,890
So they're over 80% AMI.

865
01:14:14,850 --> 01:14:19,450
They are one as a personal care home health care aid,

866
01:14:19,450 --> 01:14:20,830
works in the nursing home.

867
01:14:21,430 --> 01:14:24,570
One is somebody who works in a kitchen and we cross it.

868
01:14:24,970 --> 01:14:28,950
These are like just classic like, you know, mainstream,

869
01:14:29,290 --> 01:14:30,410
chatem workers.

870
01:14:31,170 --> 01:14:33,890
And but they're working really, really, really hard.

871
01:14:34,310 --> 01:14:38,610
And they're making a really good living.

872
01:14:38,610 --> 01:14:44,450
but it's too much money to live in my housing but it's not enough to be able to afford anything.

873
01:14:45,030 --> 01:14:49,950
So I think that's where you get when you start to get into that, that's a whole,

874
01:14:49,950 --> 01:14:53,550
that's a whole demographic that we need to be very sensitive to.

875
01:14:53,650 --> 01:14:55,110
I've never seen anything like it before.

876
01:14:55,190 --> 01:14:59,970
I've never ever seen the wave that I'm seeing right now as people that are able to make money.

877
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:14,820
And there are enough to make more than 80%, but they, even though they're up at maybe 100%, they can't afford to live here, because there's nothing for anybody in that in between place.

878
01:15:15,220 --> 01:15:27,600
So I just want to be sure that they're considered, you know, that that is considered in deciding what, you know, who goes in where this whole mix, I love the idea of the mixed, you know, the mixed income population.

879
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:33,280
but that's a facelake growing need, I think, in the sound.

880
01:15:35,870 --> 01:15:39,410
Thank you. And we talk about each of the properties in a couple minutes.

881
01:15:40,070 --> 01:15:44,170
I'm glad you made that point because we will talk about that definition of affordable,

882
01:15:44,990 --> 01:15:48,970
which for one of the properties in particular, all of the units would need to fit that definition.

883
01:15:49,290 --> 01:15:53,710
But for the other, there's more flexibility. So I'm glad you brought up that point. Thank you.

884
01:15:55,920 --> 01:16:03,520
And we have Rick Lebett again with his hand up, Rick, did you just, is your hand up or did you not put it down from the last time?

885
01:16:03,540 --> 01:16:05,060
No, no, my hand is up.

886
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:05,700
I don't want anything.

887
01:16:07,140 --> 01:16:10,820
I just wanted to briefly comment on Tracy's comment.

888
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:12,540
She's absolutely right.

889
01:16:14,120 --> 01:16:19,560
One of the things about the Brewster Landing Project over in Brewster was 28 homes.

890
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:27,200
Eight of them were so-called affordable homes and 20 were so-called attainable homes.

891
01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:29,960
The affordable homes sold for $200,000.

892
01:16:30,460 --> 01:16:33,560
That was three or four years ago they'll be a little higher now.

893
01:16:34,500 --> 01:16:40,900
But that family you were talking about Tracy could easily afford a $200,000 home,

894
01:16:40,900 --> 01:16:42,800
earning the income that they were earning.

895
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:44,660
So that's where we're going.

896
01:16:46,260 --> 01:16:50,640
It's a, I call it a pregnant concept.

897
01:16:50,900 --> 01:16:52,140
It's a wonderful concept.

898
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:57,760
It's new, except that it is very, very old.

899
01:16:58,220 --> 01:17:01,900
We've done it here throughout the centuries in Shadow.

900
01:17:02,900 --> 01:17:05,480
Mixed income families living together.

901
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:08,580
Thank you.

902
01:17:09,060 --> 01:17:09,700
Thank you.

903
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:11,960
I think there was one more comment.

904
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:15,140
And then we'll just for time sake, we'll move on to a discussion of each property.

905
01:17:17,140 --> 01:17:24,300
Hi, I just wanted to address one of those points that you had there.

906
01:17:25,140 --> 01:17:33,940
You talk about mixed economic diversity, which is wonderful, but nobody's really addressing

907
01:17:33,940 --> 01:17:42,320
people with disabilities and barrier free is wonderful, you know, bringing in different

908
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:46,380
economic situations as diversity, but so does capabilities.

909
01:17:48,580 --> 01:17:58,840
Just because you have a ramp or a little sidewalk barrier does not make an apartment accessible,

910
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:08,920
stairs, toileting, showering, they're a big barrier in people may not be able to find that

911
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:15,340
in the community here with rentals or housing, and if they do, they have to put it in

912
01:18:15,340 --> 01:18:19,120
themselves, which is a large economic burden on them.

913
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:28,340
We have, as you've cited in aging population, they may need these fixtures in place, and

914
01:18:28,340 --> 01:18:35,440
would have to leave or go to more of an institutional type of housing which they may not need

915
01:18:35,440 --> 01:18:43,760
that specialized care but they just can't access their their bathroom correctly and and changing

916
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:50,740
a home dynamics may not be feasible in these older homes. So I think that really needs to be

917
01:18:50,740 --> 01:18:58,320
looked at and addressed to me that's a large concern especially with an aging population but also

918
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:05,200
with a younger population, where if there's a younger person in a home that is aging out and

919
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:11,540
would like to be independent, they can't afford to be here in Chatham with an ADA accessible

920
01:19:11,540 --> 01:19:12,300
housing.

921
01:19:13,540 --> 01:19:14,140
Thank you.

922
01:19:14,240 --> 01:19:14,840
Thank you.

923
01:19:16,260 --> 01:19:16,540
Okay.

924
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:17,620
All right.

925
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:25,800
These are all very helpful comments, and I think we will move on now to taking a look at each

926
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:31,260
the properties, and I'll try to be as brief as I can, just out of respect for your time,

927
01:19:31,480 --> 01:19:36,640
but also because a lot of these specifics of the existing conditions on each site will

928
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:41,480
be gone over more in the second meeting when Dodson and Flinker talks about kind of why

929
01:19:41,480 --> 01:19:45,300
there may be limitations on each site, and why that's going to kind of control what can be done

930
01:19:45,300 --> 01:19:45,920
as well.

931
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:51,980
So, okay. All right,

932
01:19:55,890 --> 01:20:03,470
so first we're going to talk about the main street property. As Gloria pointed out earlier, I won't run through all this again because she already discussed it.

933
01:20:04,270 --> 01:20:15,430
But this was authorized in town meeting by town meeting in 2021 and then the town closed on the sale recently in November.

934
01:20:15,430 --> 01:20:20,410
So there's quite a process there, but this property is the first one that we will be discussing.

935
01:20:21,590 --> 01:20:25,010
We did a site walk on Monday actually.

936
01:20:26,170 --> 01:20:29,170
So there are some kind of differences between these properties that are important to note.

937
01:20:29,230 --> 01:20:33,850
So the main street property is relatively flat compared to the meeting house road property.

938
01:20:34,030 --> 01:20:35,470
So I'll show you kind of those differences.

939
01:20:36,510 --> 01:20:40,230
It does kind of slope slightly down from the road toward the back of the property.

940
01:20:40,950 --> 01:20:44,410
And in terms of uses, there are varying uses around the property.

941
01:20:44,410 --> 01:20:51,990
So both sides, on one side, it's directly abutting the property and on the other, it's a couple of properties down, but there's motels,

942
01:20:53,250 --> 01:20:58,770
abutting our near both sides across Main Street, there's well-in-way apartments, which are small, multi-family.

943
01:20:59,670 --> 01:21:04,990
Both sides of Main Street, a little ways down, are zoned for some commercial development.

944
01:21:05,470 --> 01:21:10,070
And then behind the lot, there's a lot of single-family subdivisions that you'll see in a moment.

945
01:21:10,630 --> 01:21:16,750
It is zoned as residential 20, which the big thing there is the minimum lot size is 20,000 square feet.

946
01:21:17,670 --> 01:21:26,730
And so, depending on the permitting route that the town goes for the property, these zoning parameters may not need to be adhered to.

947
01:21:26,850 --> 01:21:29,150
However, it is helpful for understanding neighborhood context.

948
01:21:29,310 --> 01:21:31,290
You know, it kind of built environment around you.

949
01:21:32,050 --> 01:21:35,950
This property is currently sewered, and it is in a historic business district.

950
01:21:37,190 --> 01:21:47,690
So, just kind of looking at the property here, so this, you'll see more, we look at the meeting house road property.

951
01:21:48,470 --> 01:21:57,550
The fact that these lines here that indicate depth of the property, these topography lines, are based fairly far apart,

952
01:21:57,790 --> 01:22:04,770
shows that it's not any sort of steep drop on the property, so that is one thing to keep in mind that can make kind of development a bit less challenging.

953
01:22:05,430 --> 01:22:09,470
And then these darker red areas that I mentioned, these are the areas that are currently

954
01:22:09,470 --> 01:22:14,510
zoned as commercial, but then behind the property you can see, you know, kind of just

955
01:22:14,510 --> 01:22:17,070
a lot of residential subdivision.

956
01:22:17,270 --> 01:22:20,510
So there's kind of a variety of uses going on around the property.

957
01:22:24,020 --> 01:22:29,040
So with some of that in mind, what types of housing, and we heard a lot about this already in

958
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:29,960
in terms of the...

959
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:45,580
A lot of comments about having kind of mixed housing types, mixed income levels, things like that. But given kind of the context of the built environment around it, is there any kind of housing type in particular that you think might be most appropriate for this site?

960
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:56,040
And what should be taken into consideration when planning for this site? I know we kind of touched on a lot of that already, but thinking about this site in particular if there's any specifics.

961
01:23:08,550 --> 01:23:13,430
Joan Craig again certainly don't want a four story anything.

962
01:23:15,490 --> 01:23:18,210
I like the presentation of Lake

963
01:23:18,210 --> 01:23:26,170
Street. I've always found that that is a really nice looking area and the individuals

964
01:23:26,170 --> 01:23:36,470
that live there to my knowledge as I go by often. Keep it nice and I like the fact that

965
01:23:36,470 --> 01:23:44,950
That type of setup, sort of like townhouse attached townhouse, I guess, would fit very well

966
01:23:44,950 --> 01:23:48,150
in the property at the Buckley property.

967
01:23:48,330 --> 01:23:50,550
I think something like that would look very good.

968
01:23:50,910 --> 01:23:54,670
I don't think it has to be long.

969
01:23:55,170 --> 01:24:05,250
I think it can be situated in such a way that the townhouses fit to the property lines.

970
01:24:05,250 --> 01:24:09,130
So, that's one thing I think that we could consider.

971
01:24:10,510 --> 01:24:16,270
I know there are motels, some of which quite frankly are not that attractive.

972
01:24:17,010 --> 01:24:23,050
However, perhaps by doing something attractive next door that we're talking about here,

973
01:24:23,430 --> 01:24:26,090
that maybe some of those would be upgraded also.

974
01:24:26,890 --> 01:24:31,010
So, I think something like that would certainly fit very well into the property.

975
01:24:33,010 --> 01:24:36,490
Thank you, and can I just to clarify, do you say Lake Street?

976
01:24:37,350 --> 01:24:38,050
Okay, thanks.

977
01:24:43,490 --> 01:24:44,110
Sorry, Megan, again.

978
01:24:44,470 --> 01:24:47,890
I know people love the historic district downtown.

979
01:24:49,170 --> 01:24:50,670
Sing family on time lots.

980
01:24:51,670 --> 01:24:54,690
This particular property might be well suited for that.

981
01:24:54,690 --> 01:24:56,930
I'm not an architect or a land designer, so I don't know.

982
01:24:57,310 --> 01:25:05,770
But because it can be mixed income, it might be appropriate for sort of single family affordable housing, in which case we could maybe.

983
01:25:05,770 --> 01:25:11,630
make it look like what everybody loves about child and that's sort of beautiful end of mainstream

984
01:25:11,630 --> 01:25:19,790
perfect little cute neighborhood. Can you just say the name of the property, okay?

985
01:25:24,950 --> 01:25:25,630
Yeah

986
01:25:32,280 --> 01:25:41,320
I Steve Buckley, a executor of the Joseph P Buckley state which sold two and a half acres

987
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:50,700
to the town. And I certainly, yes, when there was an RFP for affordable housing, it's been

988
01:25:50,700 --> 01:25:56,740
something that I've been thinking about for a long time. So I didn't want to jump in first

989
01:25:56,740 --> 01:26:04,640
as far as what goes there. But in a grew up in China, but spent 25 years in Washington DC area,

990
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:12,060
in which case I lived in garden apartments, garden condos, which are very nice, and which

991
01:26:12,060 --> 01:26:19,280
allowed for big open areas, and but we also lived my wife and I and our two small children

992
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:25,640
at that time lived in townhouse, brand new townhouse development in Buuy, Maryland, and they

993
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:32,620
look very nice and say they even look nicer than the ones that are in Chattam, so townhouse

994
01:26:32,620 --> 01:26:38,920
developments attached, can look very classy, I like to think we were very fond of the space

995
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:39,540
we had there.

996
01:26:39,620 --> 01:26:45,680
In fact, we had more space in our townhouse, three-level, three-bedroom, one-and-a-half-bath

997
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:51,020
townhouse than the single-family homes in Bowie, Maryland, which had no basement.

998
01:26:52,220 --> 01:26:55,060
So, they were people come over and say, wow, you have more space than we do.

999
01:26:55,760 --> 01:27:02,520
So, anyway, yes, so that's one thing that I would think.

1000
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:09,920
and the advantage people like single-family homes and so the idea that even if you put them

1001
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:15,420
really close together they don't want to touch because something when they touch at least but

1002
01:27:15,420 --> 01:27:22,040
to have an alley if you put them together it's all the more room for the kids to play and for the

1003
01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:26,860
beat of Rome that's what that's my always envision that and personally I would like to see something

1004
01:27:26,860 --> 01:27:31,780
where when people when I drive by and when people drive by that property and the future they look

1005
01:27:31,780 --> 01:27:38,160
and they see kids playing in the front, like there's a green area in the front and he moved

1006
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:42,120
the houses to the back and they can touch to make room for that area there to be able

1007
01:27:42,120 --> 01:27:45,940
to do that so whether it's kids playing or yard sales or something like that people look

1008
01:27:45,940 --> 01:27:50,040
over and they see that they see all of this a bunch of people doing stuff over there gives

1009
01:27:50,040 --> 01:28:01,760
you that sense of community and the fact that it shows that it's vibrant I don't want to see

1010
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:04,520
But Phil Richardson, who you see there on the screen,

1011
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:08,380
came up with a concept design.

1012
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:11,200
He put his own money into a concept design

1013
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:17,080
for the 10, what could happen on one square acre of land.

1014
01:28:17,380 --> 01:28:20,400
But he also, at my request, about a year ago,

1015
01:28:20,620 --> 01:28:21,800
I said, what would it look like?

1016
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:23,720
What if you took that concept design

1017
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:26,740
and applied that to this two and a half acres?

1018
01:28:27,340 --> 01:28:30,260
So somewhere, and that would be something just

1019
01:28:31,180 --> 01:28:36,800
And they're not townhouses, so, but it's a starting point to show people that it doesn't

1020
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:41,180
have to look like affordable housing, it doesn't have to look bad, it can look nice.

1021
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:46,020
In fact, I think it looks more like Chattam, makes it look more like Chattam because a

1022
01:28:46,020 --> 01:28:53,040
lot of the housing that's gone in in the past, well, 20 or 30 years looks less like Chattam

1023
01:28:53,040 --> 01:28:54,220
than I grew up here.

1024
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:58,880
So, if you want to go back and capture the character of Chattam, I think, that's one place

1025
01:28:58,880 --> 01:28:59,300
to start.

1026
01:28:59,300 --> 01:29:09,100
And I think it was presented to the board of select, I'm sorry, the select board about a year and a half or two years ago, and they seem to like the concept as nice.

1027
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:21,340
So if that two and a half acre PDF drawing could be put up on that website as just a to show people, oh, that looks pretty good.

1028
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:27,460
And it's actually for this particular property. So it's not set in stone and I don't say what say don't.

1029
01:29:27,460 --> 01:29:32,160
don't say this is what's going to happen. It's just one concept design. Thank you.

1030
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:37,440
Thank you. And I think it is very helpful. We've seen those concepts and shared them with our team.

1031
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:41,640
And it is helpful. I think for visualizing what can fit. So that.

1032
01:29:43,460 --> 01:29:48,620
Okay. Thank you. Any other comments about?

1033
01:29:49,240 --> 01:29:49,420
Oh, sure.

1034
01:29:51,100 --> 01:29:53,960
Oh, yeah. Sure. Could we just hear from Phil.

1035
01:29:57,040 --> 01:29:59,960
Go ahead, Phil, I think you just need, I think you...

1036
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:01,480
Just need to unmute, Phil.

1037
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:32,900
Okay. Hello. Yeah. That's good to talk to you guys. I've been talking to him about his property. And I'm from California and out here, a density is necessary because we have some pretty big communities. So I thought that for Shaddam, the main thing to do is that people would like to live in a single family houses.

1038
01:30:32,900 --> 01:30:39,820
So I just picked 10 units in acre as a density number and I had when I architect out here

1039
01:30:39,820 --> 01:30:46,840
design a project for Steve's property and they're all cake-con houses and they're all around

1040
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:53,460
1200 square feet and we put 20 fillet above them on Steve's property and they're two,

1041
01:30:53,480 --> 01:31:01,520
one thing to be, they can be two, three and four bedroom and they're all within the concept developed

1042
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:02,840
So I'm like my architect.

1043
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:06,560
And we also included a little farmer's area.

1044
01:31:07,220 --> 01:31:10,880
And most of the houses surround a little common area too.

1045
01:31:11,980 --> 01:31:13,980
So yeah, I'm not saying this is what should be done,

1046
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:16,380
but it's kind of stuff I think is good for Chad

1047
01:31:16,380 --> 01:31:18,180
and because it's a single family houses

1048
01:31:18,180 --> 01:31:21,740
and they're too story, they're not taller than too story.

1049
01:31:22,660 --> 01:31:25,540
And everybody has their own yard and their own property.

1050
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:27,760
So I think that would be something where

1051
01:31:27,760 --> 01:31:31,380
that would be at least one type of project you look at.

1052
01:31:31,380 --> 01:31:41,520
And in general, we have to either do affordable, I mean, single family or rental, and then you can get rental,

1053
01:31:41,700 --> 01:31:44,240
you can get more density with rental.

1054
01:31:45,300 --> 01:31:49,040
So, the Arcanics Club, a lot of issues to deal with.

1055
01:31:50,300 --> 01:31:57,320
But we will probably have a living in the amount of land, even though we're doing very well right now.

1056
01:31:57,320 --> 01:32:06,420
So the density is an issue and the style of the house is an issue and the diversity of

1057
01:32:06,420 --> 01:32:13,700
bincom is also another issue. So if we have a property like meeting house, which is now

1058
01:32:13,700 --> 01:32:19,760
according to the purchase process, it's going to be all affordable. A affordable, that might be

1059
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:24,700
something that maybe we could somehow have adjusted. So thank you very much.

1060
01:32:24,700 --> 01:32:31,680
And so I think we're on a road here for Chattam and I hope we can get something done soon.

1061
01:32:34,980 --> 01:32:40,320
Thank you. And just to clarify and fill, thank you for bringing this up as well.

1062
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:54,720
Again, that contrast between the meeting house road property and this main street property is that for this property 50% of the units would need to be capital A affordable because it was funded 50% by the affordable housing trust.

1063
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:58,300
And then the remaining 50% would be that kind of attainable definition.

1064
01:32:58,480 --> 01:33:02,060
And there was the point made that the town should be very transparent and clear about what that means.

1065
01:33:02,280 --> 01:33:10,880
I believe in the RFP, and that was up to 200% of area median income was kind of the town's definition of what attainable would look like.

1066
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:19,400
So for this main street property, it'd be a mix of that capital A affordable, and then also up to 200% potentially.

1067
01:33:26,440 --> 01:33:32,880
I just want to point out, for one, my preference almost always is I lean more towards

1068
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:41,020
home ownership opportunities, but I think on this particular site, I would be an advocate

1069
01:33:41,020 --> 01:33:45,900
for doing density, attractive density, whether it's the townhouses or something like

1070
01:33:45,900 --> 01:33:51,840
fills plan, but I also want to make sure I would like for this property to have

1071
01:33:51,840 --> 01:33:54,300
some rentals and some one bedrooms.

1072
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:57,760
I think we need single bedroom units there.

1073
01:33:57,860 --> 01:34:00,600
So if you mix it all up, that would be great.

1074
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:04,420
But I would really be disappointed if this particular parcel

1075
01:34:04,420 --> 01:34:09,840
didn't have some rentals and or the single bedroom

1076
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:12,820
really important, I think, because there are a bunch of people

1077
01:34:12,820 --> 01:34:16,580
that are really not getting any opportunities here.

1078
01:34:17,180 --> 01:34:18,120
And I think there's a demand.

1079
01:34:18,300 --> 01:34:20,860
And I think as much as we idealize what we'd like all this to look,

1080
01:34:20,860 --> 01:34:26,740
Like we need to look at the data and to see who is in need of housing, not just what we idealize

1081
01:34:26,740 --> 01:34:33,080
this property to be, because we're here to serve the need, not to just imagine something that's beautiful.

1082
01:34:33,280 --> 01:34:37,640
I think we can do both and create an attractive property that can meet the need.

1083
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:42,260
But I want to make sure that we address the concerns that people have who who are in need of housing,

1084
01:34:42,400 --> 01:34:45,400
not those of us who are just sitting here thinking about what would be good for housing.

1085
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:46,920
Thank you.

1086
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:48,800
Thank you.

1087
01:34:52,420 --> 01:34:54,480
So we do have one hand up online, Rick Levitt.

1088
01:34:58,100 --> 01:34:59,280
Yeah, thank you.

1089
01:35:00,240 --> 01:35:01,460
This is an excellent discussion.

1090
01:35:01,460 --> 01:35:03,420
It's been a really an outstanding discussion.

1091
01:35:04,260 --> 01:35:06,360
I agree with the previous speaker.

1092
01:35:07,660 --> 01:35:10,860
We need to have an entire mix.

1093
01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:22,720
Both fill a mix of homes to serve the needs of our working population and our non-working population.

1094
01:35:23,700 --> 01:35:31,140
Phil Richardson and I and Steve Buckley and I and Steve and I were neighbors as I mentioned

1095
01:35:31,140 --> 01:35:34,900
that I have my property, a butts, the Buckley property.

1096
01:35:36,380 --> 01:35:41,680
Yeah, we want to see a higher density development there.

1097
01:35:42,740 --> 01:35:51,320
Single family homes, town homes as Steve said, the previous speaker just mentioned one

1098
01:35:51,320 --> 01:35:55,240
bedroom homes over in Brewster, on Brewster Landing.

1099
01:35:56,260 --> 01:35:59,300
They don't have one bedroom homes, but they have two bedroom homes,

1100
01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:01,480
and three bedroom homes.

1101
01:36:03,040 --> 01:36:07,420
So how and of Village Green, where the kids can play,

1102
01:36:07,920 --> 01:36:10,500
and can be seen, the homes surrounded.

1103
01:36:11,540 --> 01:36:16,320
So you can have single family homes small, 1200 square foot homes

1104
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:18,700
like Phil has described, excellent.

1105
01:36:18,700 --> 01:36:25,460
they can go up to 1,500 to 1,600 square feet. I lived in Boston for 10 years in an apartment

1106
01:36:25,940 --> 01:36:33,780
of 1,000 square feet. So we don't need big homes on big lots. We need smaller homes

1107
01:36:33,780 --> 01:36:40,020
and smaller lots that serve the needs of our community and what I would like to see is what

1108
01:36:40,020 --> 01:36:47,720
Phil and Steve Buckley have said developed on the Buckley property. Something very much similar

1109
01:36:47,720 --> 01:36:51,640
to what's been developed over at Brewster Landing in Brewster.

1110
01:36:52,340 --> 01:36:53,140
Thank you.

1111
01:36:55,690 --> 01:36:56,390
Thank you.

1112
01:37:01,010 --> 01:37:04,450
Just a very quick comment on the rentals, which I agree.

1113
01:37:05,250 --> 01:37:08,150
I've spent a lot of time talking to 30 and 40

1114
01:37:08,150 --> 01:37:11,090
year olds who work in the medical fields.

1115
01:37:11,970 --> 01:37:12,810
Some of them travel.

1116
01:37:13,010 --> 01:37:15,050
Some of them are not here all the time.

1117
01:37:15,290 --> 01:37:18,090
Some of them work in the hospital for a year

1118
01:37:18,090 --> 01:37:20,410
and then go to another hospital and another location.

1119
01:37:20,890 --> 01:37:22,430
So they're all looking for rentals.

1120
01:37:23,190 --> 01:37:29,970
I've talked to many, many people that work at CBI and other restaurants at CBI a lot of...

1121
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:47,680
People that work there pay $150 a month for a very small bedroom situation. If you multiply that, you can figure out what they could pay for a whole year. That's not a lot of money. Is it even possible?

1122
01:37:53,040 --> 01:38:03,100
But the point being, can affordable housing, can we build new affordable housing that we can rent

1123
01:38:03,100 --> 01:38:06,950
for that less, that little money because there is that need.

1124
01:38:07,740 --> 01:38:08,640
No question about it.

1125
01:38:08,780 --> 01:38:14,420
There's a big need within that lower price range and there are hard workers and some of them have

1126
01:38:14,420 --> 01:38:19,760
two jobs, some of them work CBI, some hours, and then they go over and work CBS, the rest

1127
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:24,420
of the time, they barely get any sleep, they have to sign contracts, stay here for three

1128
01:38:24,420 --> 01:38:30,480
years, and if they go back to their Jamaica or wherever, they really live, they have to pay

1129
01:38:30,480 --> 01:38:31,340
for it.

1130
01:38:31,540 --> 01:38:36,060
So keep that in mind on this rental and affordable housing issue.

1131
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:37,080
Thank you.

1132
01:38:42,620 --> 01:38:42,720
Thank you.

1133
01:38:43,000 --> 01:38:43,560
All right.

1134
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:52,560
So, I am going to move on and just give a brief overview of the meeting house road property,

1135
01:38:53,020 --> 01:38:54,520
which again, a key difference there.

1136
01:38:54,660 --> 01:38:55,660
I'd like to...

1137
01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:56,840
Excuse me.

1138
01:38:56,880 --> 01:38:59,480
I'd like to make one comment about the previous speaker.

1139
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:01,460
Very briefly.

1140
01:39:03,620 --> 01:39:03,820
Okay.

1141
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:05,980
Thank you.

1142
01:39:06,580 --> 01:39:07,020
Absolutely.

1143
01:39:07,900 --> 01:39:13,120
As Shireen Davis said, a little earlier in the program this evening, it's possible to have

1144
01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:20,660
Some of these homes, single homes, or attached homes, townhouses, be rental properties.

1145
01:39:20,900 --> 01:39:27,040
The town can own them, they can buy them from the developer, and rent them to the people

1146
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:34,340
who need rentals, and even in a rent to own wonderful program like the Marconi program.

1147
01:39:34,460 --> 01:39:35,680
Is it all very possible?

1148
01:39:36,700 --> 01:39:37,360
Thank you.

1149
01:39:38,120 --> 01:39:38,960
Thank you.

1150
01:39:40,100 --> 01:39:40,640
Question?

1151
01:39:49,500 --> 01:39:58,940
I'm Jeff Fugelstead, if you get the trend of part of the theme, I was a banker for 34 years.

1152
01:39:59,220 --> 01:40:06,300
My objective in dealing with all sizes of companies and with people is I need to get

1153
01:40:06,300 --> 01:40:09,120
repaid that was that was a just of it.

1154
01:40:09,660 --> 01:40:15,700
Now, with regard to rentals, we've talked to several people in my life and I who don't

1155
01:40:15,700 --> 01:40:21,660
think they'll ever be able to move here because of the amount of money that's necessary

1156
01:40:22,220 --> 01:40:25,120
to live or rent by et cetera.

1157
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:35,580
What is your estimate of what it would cost a family to live in a rental or to buy a house

1158
01:40:35,580 --> 01:40:38,520
that was two to three hundred thousand dollars to build?

1159
01:40:38,960 --> 01:40:41,760
Do you have information on math subject?

1160
01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:44,900
We're actually not.

1161
01:40:45,480 --> 01:40:49,640
It's a fair question and actually we're not doing a feasibility study at this point.

1162
01:40:50,340 --> 01:40:53,580
So we really don't have the data to answer that.

1163
01:40:53,940 --> 01:40:57,560
You know, I can certainly tell you that based on work we just finished with the town of

1164
01:40:57,560 --> 01:41:02,800
Orleans, for the Governor Prince property, we were involved in that as well, that there's

1165
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:10,260
a real challenge here in the lower end-out or Cape areas in terms of trying to create that

1166
01:41:10,260 --> 01:41:16,720
level of affordability, without some pretty significant subsidy support from state or

1167
01:41:16,720 --> 01:41:17,520
federal programs.

1168
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:24,880
So reaching the people who actually work in hospitality, you're just

1169
01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:29,180
any sort of local employment here, it's a real challenge, and that's going to be the

1170
01:41:29,180 --> 01:41:33,640
same whether people are trying to move here from another community, but they're in that

1171
01:41:33,640 --> 01:41:34,500
time range?

1172
01:41:35,200 --> 01:41:39,880
Well, in my estimation, the amount of money is key.

1173
01:41:40,040 --> 01:41:40,320
Yes.

1174
01:41:40,540 --> 01:41:43,240
A family has to be making so much.

1175
01:41:43,780 --> 01:41:49,880
The other question I have is, there seems to be a two-themed approach to housing and

1176
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:50,320
town.

1177
01:41:50,600 --> 01:41:58,140
One is for young people who wish to send their children to school, and the other is for seniors

1178
01:41:58,140 --> 01:42:00,280
who would wish to stay here.

1179
01:42:01,040 --> 01:42:08,160
What is the idea, what are your ideas with regard to where people who have school-aged children,

1180
01:42:09,540 --> 01:42:14,280
where they would live, how what kind of communities would they be a part of?

1181
01:42:15,080 --> 01:42:16,880
Do you have any comments on that?

1182
01:42:17,140 --> 01:42:21,480
Well, I think that's what we're trying to find out from you folks actually is how you see those.

1183
01:42:21,820 --> 01:42:25,840
As planners, yes, we have thoughts on it, but it's not our property, it's not our town,

1184
01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:28,680
and we're trying to find out what you folks want to see.

1185
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:33,620
And what kinds of environments you think are appropriate for different types of household needs.

1186
01:42:34,780 --> 01:42:38,120
I will just want to point out because you're absolutely right about people have to be able to afford.

1187
01:42:39,340 --> 01:42:47,380
Whatever the housing is that they're seeking to rent her buy, but the developer in order to build the housing has to get a bank loan from somebody to build it.

1188
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:57,120
So, you know, long before anyone is as applying to a lottery to rent her own a house, there is this basic feasibility assessment that has to be done.

1189
01:42:57,120 --> 01:43:03,640
by the developer, and by whoever the lender is going to be, or lender is, are going to be for that project.

1190
01:43:04,980 --> 01:43:09,860
So, you know, this is a big hurdle that anything of these projects are going to have to go through.

1191
01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:15,700
It's not just about what they look like, and it's really not even just about who are the populations we're trying to serve.

1192
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:26,290
It's how do you make the construction of a project affordable in this environment, and then what can you actually expect to attain for rents or sale prices, and you have to close a gap somehow.

1193
01:43:26,290 --> 01:43:32,110
somehow. And that gap is either closed by local funds or state funds or federal funds or some

1194
01:43:32,110 --> 01:43:35,950
source that's going to close those gaps and make a feasible project.

1195
01:43:36,450 --> 01:43:41,030
Understood. However, the bottom line, again, is finance. Of course.

1196
01:43:41,630 --> 01:43:47,330
With regard to various developments, various houses, various townhouse approaches,

1197
01:43:47,770 --> 01:43:54,670
there's got to be a bottom line. Yep. And that should be presented to this group.

1198
01:43:54,670 --> 01:44:02,830
There should be an idea that says 200,000 to support a home and a family.

1199
01:44:03,550 --> 01:44:08,070
That should be key to getting the discussion off the ground.

1200
01:44:08,910 --> 01:44:09,610
Thank you.

1201
01:44:09,690 --> 01:44:10,430
Thank you.

1202
01:44:14,770 --> 01:44:14,990
Yep.

1203
01:44:15,710 --> 01:44:15,990
Okay.

1204
01:44:16,350 --> 01:44:19,210
So for the meeting house road property,

1205
01:44:21,490 --> 01:44:23,410
where is my mouse?

1206
01:44:30,510 --> 01:44:30,910
Oh, there we go.

1207
01:44:31,510 --> 01:44:31,770
Okay.

1208
01:44:31,770 --> 01:44:37,710
So just a reminder, a key difference with this property is that the units on this property

1209
01:44:37,710 --> 01:44:39,250
would be 100% affordable.

1210
01:44:39,490 --> 01:44:44,450
Now what that income threshold would look like, I think, is that's not determined.

1211
01:44:44,710 --> 01:44:50,710
So that it would need to be, you know, by definition, for the affordable housing trust,

1212
01:44:50,910 --> 01:44:55,390
Katie, I believe the parameters we had talked about was no more than 100% AMI.

1213
01:44:55,390 --> 01:44:59,970
But if it was up to if it was at that level it wouldn't necessarily wouldn't go on

1214
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:23,260
On the subsidized housing inventory. And the town is aware of that. But at least it's addressing any. So that's one thing to consider. But so these units, all of them, would have to be up to that point. It could certainly be lower than that one hundred percent AMI. But as duty just mentioned, there's a lot of kind of project feasibility questions that would need to come into play before anything is built.

1215
01:45:24,980 --> 01:45:33,460
So again, because this was acquired exclusively with housing trust funds, all of the units on this property would be affordable unlike the main street property.

1216
01:45:34,900 --> 01:45:40,620
And so I know Gloria already went over this background, but again, just I want to point out it's about three and a half acres.

1217
01:45:42,160 --> 01:45:53,240
And one thing that's also noteworthy here, just to point out, there's not much that while the town kind of lost that that acreage that they assumed originally was part of the property.

1218
01:45:53,240 --> 01:45:58,500
The rail trail goes right through here, and so, and there's a lot of kind of challenging

1219
01:45:59,300 --> 01:46:00,900
topography in this area as well.

1220
01:46:02,100 --> 01:46:05,200
So, that's, you know, one thing to keep in mind, that even though that part of the property

1221
01:46:05,200 --> 01:46:10,100
is no longer included, that likely wouldn't have been where development would be focused anyway.

1222
01:46:11,640 --> 01:46:15,160
So, just some kind of key points about this property, unlike the Main Street property,

1223
01:46:15,280 --> 01:46:19,280
which we mentioned, was relatively flat with that kind of gentle slope toward the back.

1224
01:46:19,720 --> 01:46:22,280
The topography here is more varied.

1225
01:46:22,280 --> 01:46:27,540
There's a lot of elevation changes, more pronounced on the front portion of the lot that

1226
01:46:27,540 --> 01:46:31,760
I'll show you on a map in just a minute, and then it so it kind of drops down and then

1227
01:46:31,760 --> 01:46:33,260
goes up but it becomes flat.

1228
01:46:34,260 --> 01:46:41,620
And so that's kind of going to be interesting to figure out the access for where the access

1229
01:46:41,620 --> 01:46:47,520
will come into the parcel, but that's where our friends at Dobson and Flinker will come

1230
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:49,040
and tell us what's possible.

1231
01:46:49,040 --> 01:46:55,500
So this unlike the main street property which did kind of have a variety of uses and zoning around it.

1232
01:46:55,740 --> 01:46:58,340
This is really surrounded primarily with residential uses.

1233
01:46:58,520 --> 01:47:02,720
And we had a member of our audience today point out that's kind of a lot of smaller homes and kind of, you know,

1234
01:47:02,840 --> 01:47:05,220
being aware of the neighborhood context there.

1235
01:47:05,820 --> 01:47:10,500
It does also about some kind of on conservation lands in the rear.

1236
01:47:11,340 --> 01:47:15,080
So while I did say it's primarily residential, there is some kind of mix there.

1237
01:47:15,080 --> 01:47:20,920
There's a property next to it that's mixed use with a medical facility and an apartment.

1238
01:47:21,620 --> 01:47:29,180
And then kind of down the road on meeting House Road, there is an industrial zone park.

1239
01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:34,460
So this is residential 60, which is, you know, larger lot sizes in the main street property.

1240
01:47:34,860 --> 01:47:37,800
Again, depending on the permanent route, the town goes through.

1241
01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:42,980
The zoning may not apply to what gets developed on this site, but it's good for understanding

1242
01:47:42,980 --> 01:47:44,280
that neighborhood context.

1243
01:47:45,820 --> 01:47:49,900
So you can see here compared to the main street property

1244
01:47:50,560 --> 01:47:53,920
where these elevation lines were much more spread out.

1245
01:47:54,120 --> 01:47:57,780
The fact that they're so close here indicates kind of steeper changes

1246
01:47:57,780 --> 01:48:01,920
in your topography because those lines are placed every time

1247
01:48:01,920 --> 01:48:05,600
there's a change three meters about 10 feet in elevation.

1248
01:48:06,020 --> 01:48:09,960
So the closer they are, the steeper, the changes.

1249
01:48:10,500 --> 01:48:12,120
It looks like I don't have the whole parcel here,

1250
01:48:12,120 --> 01:48:14,220
but you can see they start to get more spread out.

1251
01:48:14,440 --> 01:48:16,620
So it does get a higher elevation in the back,

1252
01:48:16,620 --> 01:48:17,840
but it becomes much more flat.

1253
01:48:19,120 --> 01:48:21,800
And then back here, this is that conservation land.

1254
01:48:22,020 --> 01:48:25,120
I was mentioning, I'm sorry, I know if you're on the computer,

1255
01:48:25,340 --> 01:48:27,480
you won't be able to see my little laser pen,

1256
01:48:27,480 --> 01:48:29,300
and it looks like my mouse isn't showing up either,

1257
01:48:29,520 --> 01:48:33,960
but right behind the property to the west

1258
01:48:33,960 --> 01:48:36,360
is conservation land, the trying field.

1259
01:48:37,880 --> 01:48:39,440
And that's that industrial zoning,

1260
01:48:39,540 --> 01:48:40,880
that gray area that I mentioned,

1261
01:48:40,880 --> 01:48:46,740
But the rest of this is zone for residential, so you can see all of those kind of single-family home subdivisions.

1262
01:48:52,020 --> 01:49:02,080
So, now looking kind of considering, again, that this would be 100% affordable, considering kind of the uniqueness of the geography.

1263
01:49:02,260 --> 01:49:04,060
There's nothing on it right now.

1264
01:49:05,380 --> 01:49:07,380
The proximity to the rail trail.

1265
01:49:07,500 --> 01:49:09,520
There's actually like parking for the rail trail.

1266
01:49:09,640 --> 01:49:11,340
I want to say it's right across the way.

1267
01:49:11,340 --> 01:49:15,000
So that is just beautiful. We walked at the other day.

1268
01:49:16,240 --> 01:49:18,340
I'd like to hear what you think makes sense for this site.

1269
01:49:38,790 --> 01:49:41,690
Yeah, I would love to see home ownership on this property.

1270
01:49:42,850 --> 01:49:46,950
Single family homes, dense, obviously very attractive.

1271
01:49:46,970 --> 01:49:49,610
I think we could make a really nice neighborhood there.

1272
01:49:50,590 --> 01:49:54,410
But I would certainly wouldn't be opposed if you ended up doing rentals there.

1273
01:49:54,670 --> 01:49:57,690
But I think it would be well suited in the neighborhood to be single family homes.

1274
01:49:57,690 --> 01:50:00,530
And I'd rather do more rentals over at the public property,

1275
01:50:01,470 --> 01:50:02,510
but those are my thoughts.

1276
01:50:03,770 --> 01:50:04,630
Thank you.

1277
01:50:06,940 --> 01:50:07,660
Yes, come on.

1278
01:50:14,410 --> 01:50:16,670
Gloria Hicks again at 95 Meaning House Road.

1279
01:50:17,410 --> 01:50:19,390
I'm one house over from this property.

1280
01:50:20,990 --> 01:50:23,090
And the geography is challenging,

1281
01:50:23,150 --> 01:50:25,430
and I'm very curious how it's going to be handled.

1282
01:50:26,890 --> 01:50:29,350
From 1.37, it dips down.

1283
01:50:29,750 --> 01:50:33,470
There's an easement road that two of us on that street own.

1284
01:50:37,510 --> 01:50:39,930
How are you going to get into the development?

1285
01:50:40,230 --> 01:50:44,850
Hopefully it's a directly from Route 137, because I'll lose a lot of

1286
01:50:44,850 --> 01:50:52,190
front-age, a lot of privacy, it increases a lot of traffic, noise, and problems for

1287
01:50:52,710 --> 01:50:54,090
me, and my neighbors.

1288
01:50:55,370 --> 01:51:00,070
So I'm very curious as to how you're going to handle that dip in the road.

1289
01:51:00,070 --> 01:51:06,110
And we'll be able to address that better when the landscape architects join us for the next meeting.

1290
01:51:06,610 --> 01:51:07,250
Okay, thank you.

1291
01:51:07,490 --> 01:51:11,590
Yeah, and so we walked at Gloria, Peter Flinker, and myself, we walked the property.

1292
01:51:12,130 --> 01:51:16,510
And you're right, it is quite a dip, and then it goes back up.

1293
01:51:16,570 --> 01:51:23,190
And so that is, you know, that's a challenge that Peter and his concepts will take into consideration.

1294
01:51:23,330 --> 01:51:28,350
And that's, again, the beauty of having multiple concepts to discuss and kind of see what makes the most sense.

1295
01:51:28,350 --> 01:51:31,450
And also I think public safety and what not would have to be part of that conversation because

1296
01:51:31,450 --> 01:51:36,350
the access, you know, there are certain parameters that would have to be met for wherever

1297
01:51:36,350 --> 01:51:39,590
the housing ends up being built on the lot, whether it ends up being built toward the back

1298
01:51:39,590 --> 01:51:43,130
and there's, you know, an access road that has to get to it, just because that's where it's

1299
01:51:43,130 --> 01:51:48,050
more flat, or anything else that have to, that'd be a, you know, a conversation that would

1300
01:51:48,050 --> 01:51:50,550
need to be had with other key parties in town.

1301
01:51:51,530 --> 01:51:56,050
And again, just keeping the housing in line with the neighborhood, the houses are not large.

1302
01:51:56,710 --> 01:52:12,530
And we have a lot of privacy right now with trees and whatnot, and I really feel strongly as I said before about having a management company, keeping these so that we have a contact person because there are already existing issues in the neighborhood.

1303
01:52:13,230 --> 01:52:14,030
Thank you.

1304
01:52:14,270 --> 01:52:15,050
Thank you.

1305
01:52:16,070 --> 01:52:24,730
Yeah, the trees, that's an excellent point because there is nothing on the property right now, unlike Main Street, and that's a consideration of what will be cleared.

1306
01:52:26,210 --> 01:52:29,710
With regard to the kind of neighborhood context, we talked a lot about that on our site work.

1307
01:52:32,800 --> 01:52:41,620
Very quick comment, because of the elevations, I assume the architects will probably come up with something where they use that elevation.

1308
01:52:42,380 --> 01:52:49,680
When you build on a hill, you actually kind of get a free lower level, which if done well and attractively.

1309
01:52:50,500 --> 01:52:59,140
So your frontage could be on the road with a more colonial look and looking out into the woods could be a lower level.

1310
01:52:59,140 --> 01:53:02,780
So it's a very reasonable way to build.

1311
01:53:03,360 --> 01:53:04,980
And I'm sure he'll take that into account.

1312
01:53:12,170 --> 01:53:16,170
I think it would be important to have access to the by-trail.

1313
01:53:16,650 --> 01:53:19,310
And also the Twainfield is passive recreation,

1314
01:53:19,610 --> 01:53:22,110
even though it's conservation land and access to the Twainfield.

1315
01:53:22,230 --> 01:53:26,730
I think that that will balance out some green and open space

1316
01:53:26,730 --> 01:53:29,470
that the neighborhood might need.

1317
01:53:38,800 --> 01:53:41,780
Yes, I was wondering, on the map there, there's a parcel that

1318
01:53:41,780 --> 01:53:45,540
looks like it's landlocked, there's no house on it.

1319
01:53:47,180 --> 01:53:52,960
Can you expand on that or like, who owns it or what?

1320
01:53:53,480 --> 01:53:54,160
See, yeah, go ahead.

1321
01:53:54,420 --> 01:53:57,560
Yeah, are you referring to this or up here?

1322
01:53:57,820 --> 01:53:59,880
Okay, so your mouth doesn't work?

1323
01:54:00,400 --> 01:54:01,440
I know, it's quite frustrating.

1324
01:54:01,640 --> 01:54:02,560
It's not showing up on the screen.

1325
01:54:02,580 --> 01:54:07,200
Okay, because the people online, I know, I know, so, okay, so go ahead.

1326
01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:10,600
If we look at the North Arrow, just I'll explain it to my friends online.

1327
01:54:10,600 --> 01:54:17,480
So, I believe Mr. Buckley is referring to north of the property this landlocked property. Is that what you're referring to?

1328
01:54:17,480 --> 01:54:28,880
Correct, yes. And then there's now because of the way the survey was done of the site. There are actually also two parcels down here that are landlocked as well.

1329
01:54:28,880 --> 01:54:36,940
And I believe, Kirk, me, if I'm wrong, anyone on the town side, that it is unknown ownership of this one.

1330
01:54:37,740 --> 01:54:48,580
And then these, they have some potential owners that have, on the plan of land, I know it's had possibly, with some names identified, but I believe it's unknown.

1331
01:54:49,340 --> 01:54:49,620
Is that correct?

1332
01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:58,800
That's correct. So the parcel to the North, that is it is unknown and it's something that we thought that we will likely look into as we move through.

1333
01:54:58,800 --> 01:55:11,680
process. The parcels below one is owned by airs of a person who had passed away and the other

1334
01:55:11,680 --> 01:55:24,340
parcel is, there's an unknown, we know who the owner was many years ago, but we don't have a trail

1335
01:55:25,300 --> 01:55:30,700
to who would be that owner at this point in time and so those are other, you know, we're

1336
01:55:30,700 --> 01:55:37,440
looking into those parcels, so we are looking into the, you know, potential ownership

1337
01:55:37,440 --> 01:55:43,680
of those parcels or whether or not it would make sense at all to even consider them for

1338
01:55:43,680 --> 01:55:44,660
part of this development.

1339
01:55:45,940 --> 01:55:46,300
Thank you.

1340
01:55:46,360 --> 01:55:46,700
Thank you.

1341
01:55:46,760 --> 01:55:50,700
And again, I realized I didn't explain the other property that we were talking about is in

1342
01:55:50,700 --> 01:55:56,480
the kind of Southern Southwest where it kind of makes that triangle. I'm trying to explain it

1343
01:55:56,480 --> 01:56:01,620
for my friends online because you can't see my mouse. But yeah, so those landlocked properties

1344
01:56:01,620 --> 01:56:04,720
are what Mr. Boughley was referring to.

1345
01:56:05,100 --> 01:56:11,620
Okay, yeah. I used to do research for owners I know and the thing is that there are owners,

1346
01:56:11,900 --> 01:56:15,960
they just don't know it. You know, the second, third cousin or whatever,

1347
01:56:15,960 --> 01:56:18,820
who ever owned it, so it's a matter of researching.

1348
01:56:19,360 --> 01:56:22,200
And yes, so it would be nice to know, I guess at this point,

1349
01:56:22,780 --> 01:56:25,200
before going too much further, who would find out where.

1350
01:56:25,200 --> 01:56:30,620
Where, who are if that northern, at least an northern one,

1351
01:56:30,740 --> 01:56:37,800
belongs to in case the town wants to step in and scoop it up.

1352
01:56:38,380 --> 01:56:42,100
Any other part, which that yes, as Shireen was saying,

1353
01:56:42,100 --> 01:56:48,180
me, you know, to be able to use that, that flying field right there, I mean, I was talking

1354
01:56:48,180 --> 01:56:52,920
earlier about a former buckly property, being able to have a place where kids could

1355
01:56:52,920 --> 01:57:00,220
play, and that she's just, begging, it's like it's so great that there will be some

1356
01:57:00,220 --> 01:57:06,100
access there, but, and so anything that was built though, I would say that, yes, the idea

1357
01:57:06,100 --> 01:57:15,080
that the buildings would be placed in such a way that would not prevent access from the residents,

1358
01:57:15,220 --> 01:57:21,160
you know, that to be easy access to walk over and take a walk and so forth and so on.

1359
01:57:21,740 --> 01:57:29,420
And I should point out just for FYI, there's there is similar for the former Buckley property across the street from that.

1360
01:57:29,440 --> 01:57:33,240
There's conservationally on there too, so the kids can play there too.

1361
01:57:34,080 --> 01:57:34,700
Thank you.

1362
01:57:34,700 --> 01:57:35,400
Thank you so much.

1363
01:57:38,580 --> 01:57:38,680
Yes.

1364
01:57:38,820 --> 01:57:40,180
Come on up and then.

1365
01:57:40,280 --> 01:57:41,220
You and then in the back.

1366
01:57:41,400 --> 01:57:41,920
It's fine.

1367
01:57:42,020 --> 01:57:42,640
Super quick.

1368
01:57:43,340 --> 01:57:48,180
As someone who lives on meeting out's road, I completely agree that single family homes would be

1369
01:57:48,180 --> 01:57:48,960
perfect here.

1370
01:57:49,280 --> 01:57:52,800
Ironically, this is a neighborhood that a lot of us moved to because it was the only place left

1371
01:57:52,800 --> 01:57:54,220
we could afford to move to.

1372
01:57:54,960 --> 01:58:00,960
So I'd love to keep it sort of having that feel of like, you know, and it's not just

1373
01:58:00,960 --> 01:58:01,500
young families.

1374
01:58:01,560 --> 01:58:02,160
It's young families.

1375
01:58:02,340 --> 01:58:03,020
It's older people.

1376
01:58:03,020 --> 01:58:12,020
It's a mix of people, but it's really a great neighborhood because it's where we all had to go, because it was the only place left to buy about ten years ago.

1377
01:58:13,900 --> 01:58:18,980
It's local, yeah, it's great. So we love it, and we would love to keep it in keeping with what's there.

1378
01:58:19,240 --> 01:58:20,320
Okay, thank you.

1379
01:58:24,600 --> 01:58:25,760
It's time, Joan Craig again.

1380
01:58:26,560 --> 01:58:33,140
I'm not familiar with a lot of that area. However, it reminds me of Gomes Way in Harwich.

1381
01:58:33,140 --> 01:58:35,100
I don't know if anyone's ever been there.

1382
01:58:35,840 --> 01:58:40,020
It has more space with regards to the acreage.

1383
01:58:40,660 --> 01:58:44,240
However, the houses are two and three bedroom,

1384
01:58:44,520 --> 01:58:47,280
I believe, and their suite.

1385
01:58:48,080 --> 01:58:55,040
Their cottages, their small, but lovely people,

1386
01:58:55,300 --> 01:59:00,100
keep them really nicely arranged.

1387
01:59:01,040 --> 01:59:10,580
arranged. It's in a cul-de-sac, and they're not overwhelming, so something like that,

1388
01:59:10,800 --> 01:59:19,100
or working with the architectural design of the current meeting house. But that area is really

1389
01:59:19,100 --> 01:59:27,520
quite nicely done. I think this area might be a little more dense, as far as having the house

1390
01:59:27,520 --> 01:59:33,680
closer together, but even in gums if you had more houses there, it would still look

1391
01:59:33,680 --> 01:59:36,820
really good. So something like that would be very comfortable.

1392
01:59:36,820 --> 01:59:40,220
That's a nice project. Thank you.

1393
01:59:42,590 --> 01:59:45,910
Other comments or questions?

1394
01:59:51,190 --> 01:59:51,190
Okay.

1395
01:59:52,890 --> 01:59:58,950
So thank you for all of that feedback. We will discuss it with our team at Dodson and with

1396
01:59:58,950 --> 01:59:59,930
a town staff.

1397
02:00:00,270 --> 02:00:07,690
And make sure that that kind of gets incorporated into what will happen at the next meeting. And we hope to see you there.

1398
02:00:07,830 --> 02:00:12,470
I'm going to briefly go over next steps and how you can keep aware of this process.

1399
02:00:13,530 --> 02:00:20,410
I really appreciated the suggestion of having a project page, and we will discuss how to, if that's feasible with staff.

1400
02:00:20,570 --> 02:00:24,890
But at the very least, we do have a suggestion in the meantime, so let me just go over that with you.

1401
02:00:35,320 --> 02:00:40,220
So I put this up earlier, but there will be a visual preference survey, we'll be announcing

1402
02:00:40,220 --> 02:00:41,020
next month.

1403
02:00:41,180 --> 02:00:46,020
And that will look at things like, not only building type, but also density and kind

1404
02:00:46,020 --> 02:00:50,540
of general considerations, and there may be some other questions on that survey as well.

1405
02:00:51,220 --> 02:00:55,600
And then in February, that soon will be back here with Dodson and Flinker to kind of show

1406
02:00:55,600 --> 02:01:04,940
what may be possible based on the constraints of each site and what we heard through the visual

1407
02:01:04,940 --> 02:01:08,060
preference survey through this meeting, and so forth.

1408
02:01:09,240 --> 02:01:12,320
So that is what's coming in the next couple of months.

1409
02:01:12,380 --> 02:01:16,320
Again, the kind of later part of this process with the third community meeting that likely

1410
02:01:16,320 --> 02:01:20,360
be in the spring, but the date is not determined yet for that, where there will be kind

1411
02:01:20,360 --> 02:01:22,440
of final concept presented to the public.

1412
02:01:22,460 --> 02:01:27,400
And I really want to emphasize again, there are concepts that are meant to inform how the

1413
02:01:27,400 --> 02:01:34,120
town will draft an RFP for each property, for its development, and will make sure to kind

1414
02:01:34,120 --> 02:01:37,840
over that process in the second community meeting because I think that's a very valid point

1415
02:01:37,840 --> 02:01:42,500
that people are going to want to know. It takes years from where we are right now to have

1416
02:01:42,500 --> 02:01:46,200
something built on either of these properties and so giving people kind of a sense of understanding

1417
02:01:46,200 --> 02:01:52,920
what that will look like. So, but one way to stay connected with this process if you aren't already,

1418
02:01:53,420 --> 02:01:57,300
the towns, the main sheet newsletter. I just want to make sure you know how to access that. We talk

1419
02:01:57,300 --> 02:02:03,000
to staff about making sure that the survey link goes out through that and also the information about

1420
02:02:03,000 --> 02:02:08,480
the next community meetings, until we get something more solidified on the website.

1421
02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:14,540
But if you're not signed up for this email newsletter already, if you scroll down to

1422
02:02:14,540 --> 02:02:21,520
the bottom of the town's website, you'll see way at the bottom, this connect with us.

1423
02:02:21,540 --> 02:02:23,200
There's a note of find me link there.

1424
02:02:23,260 --> 02:02:26,440
And when you click on that, there's all these different newsletters you can sign up for,

1425
02:02:26,560 --> 02:02:28,000
that maybe you are not aware of.

1426
02:02:28,660 --> 02:02:30,540
Well, I think it's great to sign up for all of them.

1427
02:02:30,540 --> 02:02:35,340
the one that relates to the town's news that are the main sheet is the government one.

1428
02:02:35,460 --> 02:02:38,400
So that's under that note if I mean link when you click on that.

1429
02:02:38,840 --> 02:02:43,520
So that's how you would get, how often does that news that are come out weekly?

1430
02:02:44,100 --> 02:02:48,040
Okay, so then you would be on that distribution list if you aren't already.

1431
02:02:48,600 --> 02:02:53,960
So I just want to make sure you're aware of that and we will make sure next steps are shared

1432
02:02:53,960 --> 02:02:58,400
through that, but I just want to really thank you all so much for attending both in-person

1433
02:02:58,400 --> 02:03:05,760
and online and our emails for the kind of primary project points are up there and we'll

1434
02:03:05,760 --> 02:03:10,480
make sure that that information wherever the landing house on the website is is there as

1435
02:03:10,480 --> 02:03:11,640
well for you.

1436
02:03:12,580 --> 02:03:14,720
So thank you and we look forward to seeing you in February.

1437
02:03:15,500 --> 02:03:19,540
Thank you all very much for coming and thank you to Barrett Planning Group for leading the meeting

1438
02:03:19,540 --> 02:03:19,820
today.

1439
02:03:20,040 --> 02:03:20,420
Thank you.