>> Welcome back to this weekly
meeting of the Health and
Safety Committee with Denver
City Council. Coverage of the
health and Safety Committee
starts now.
>> good morning. This is the
MARCH 18,000 Safety Committee
meeting on mines. Darrell
Watson. I'm honored to serve
as the chair of this committee
as well as the city council
member representing all of the
fine district 9. We have on
the agenda this morning. An
action for the Axon contract
before we roll into this
presentation. When we start
introductions by city council
members starting on right.
>> Thanks sure. Kevin Flynn
from Southwest numbers locally
District little. Is there any
wonder to council is a large
from the entire police
Boulder, Loveland.
>> In tourists from West
Denver district, 3 men to
district 5. Cashman South 100
district.
>> Good morning. Everyone said
in a Gonzales, also from have
large lovely city of Denver.
It does like a district 7.
>> Also, we'll turn it over to
Tim Hoffman for the
presentation. And you think
announcement on oldest
introduced myself a lot of it
the team introduced themselves
as well. My name is Tim
Hoffman. I'm in the Mayor's
services, stricter policy. And
good morning. Cliff Barnes. I
up commander of our side your
>> Tears to grow depiction of
certain knowledge services.
>> And we're here today to
talk about license plate or
your contract with Axon that
closing. Through a couple
slides and over to come into
Barnes, talk through some of
the specifics the details
before you jump in. Kind of
jumped ahead of protocol and
Anyone was online or their
producers are many
councilmembers Seeing none
sorry staff turn a battery.
It's okay. So the contract
details here. It's $150,000
one year contract. Obviously
the $150,000 Alec is below the
normal $500,000 threshold.
That would trigger a council
action. The administration,
the mayor are bringing this
contract through the formal
city council process,
including in this committee
and the full Council based on
the promises that the mayor
made when we were going
through the last 10 years, no
cost contract extension.
They're request today is to
vote to delay this contract,
which is resolution. 26 a 0,
2, 4, 6, tweedy certain of
MARCH 18th in the Health and
Safety Committee. That is due
to the fact we and our
discussions with you all
promised that before this item
appeared in committee would
get you a copy of the actual
contract for you to review and
to be able ask questions
about. We getting pretty close
to having that prepared fee,
but it was not ready in a
timely manner to present to
you in advance to get even
time to review. And so we're
asking we're going to do the
presentation today. We want to
have keeping a in a discussion
on it and get you all the
actual contract with a little
bit more time to review it
before it comes back to
committee for for further
discussion before moving on to
the full council. So just want
to level. So the fact is the
request today. It's often with
that we here of your
presentation questions from
City Council members.
>> put forward that request to
delay action on into next
week. One of the things I want
insist upon is that that
contract see by Friday. And
can you stipulate that that
has been the discussion, what
acts on and with the city that
we have, actual contract
available by Friday.
>> Yeah, we're we're we're
pushing towards. We can make
sure that you guys have ample
time to review and understand
that before the weekend is is
where that needs to be in.
Obviously we'll we'll be in
touch as things progress. So I
want to be clear on see they
had contracted next week.
>> Still will not provide time
for us to be able to vote
fully on that by Wednesday. So
I want to put on the that by
end of this week, it is
essential. We have that
contract. Understood. Thank
Co-chair icu rework its
server. It's a got so the the
request was by Friday's sooner
is requested. If there's
anything that we need to do to
help with moving that this has
been a long process. We want
to get to voting on this and
we cannot without a contract.
Good morning council members.
I know that I'm most of you
have seen the the presentation
of this point and deaths. All
try to keep the this morning.
There's been a slight change.
I think I can at this earlier
in the week during the
one-on-one briefings instead
of having, you know, 1, 2,
different types of cameras
essentially in this contract.
It's just going to be one type
of cameras receiving 50 acts
on outpost cameras. It for
150,001 year contract even
though it's a one-year
contract. There's a multi year
warranty maintenance agreement
with those 50 devices. In
addition, we also obtain
access to the software
application or sweet that
allows our users to utilize
the lpr devices. There has
been. And I know we went
through some of this, but
there has been a lot of
scrutiny during this process
in regards to data protection
and safeguard surrounding the
system based on the feedback
that we've received from
various converse in various
conversations. And from that
from the community. So, for
example, with the software
application when users utilize
that they are required to put
in a case number and reason
for each brewery as are
utilizing the system in all of
those. All of that, all the
screen transactions are stored
in an immutable for further
auditing and We're going to
get much more to the details
of the protections that are
going to be built into this
agreement with acts on. But
just a high level.
>> access to the APRIL ale pr
system with acts on can be
limited to Denver safety
personnel only. That includes
a couple of arson
investigators from the fire
department, but by and large
will be police officers. But a
couple of other safety
personnel and vehicles. Axel
and as a company does not have
a national database national
lookup feature. So it's not
something that we're going to
be enrolled into common. Any
or fashion of access is really
just going to shut down to
police officers and a couple
of other safety personnel.
Denver will. It's going to be
made clear in that contract.
It's also something that acts
on spells out in their
policies and procedures.
Denver will own and control
its own There won't be any
sort of using our meta data to
train ai models. There's not
going to be selling any of
license plate reader. GOD of
to 3rd parties or anything
like that, commuter van. We'll
talk about the the level data
security that acts on uses. I
think of the find vendors who
applied in this rfp process
acts on had the highest level
data security. We are reducing
the retention policy in the
city is currently license
plate reader information. We
retain that data for 30 days.
We're reducing that to 21
days. Moving forward with this
new contract. Then commuter
Barnes, we get into this in
much more detail. That access
to the system is logging on
and the commander can talk
about the process by which
safety staff make sure that
that's being regularly
checked.
>> So as I as Mr Hop and
related the there were 6 total
bidders are one. There is one
matter that pulled out. So,
you know, in the end, her 5
daughters that were considered
in this process, acts on
vendor brought the highest
level security to the table
with a fed fed ramp high
authorization. This
essentially that the highest
level of of federal cloud
security standards. And really
what that amounts to is
there's there's over 392
individual security standards
or controls that the vendor
has to comply with and show
that they're compliant order
to achieve that. One of the
specific items that my was
sure to ask each vendor is,
you know, there are some
concerns about other platforms
that MAY have, you know, the
15 it was recovered off of
other types of the lpr
platforms somewhere somewhere
to be able to obtain physical
access to the devices. So we
have some really targeting
questions of each vendor in
that regard. Attacks on uses
industry standard level of
encryption on the device
itself. So the data is
encrypted at rest. And in
addition to that, as images
are collected and uploaded to
the evidence dot com Cloud
repository. They're
immediately removed from the
local device. What makes the
recovery of any evidence or
data from the device. Very
improbable. And additionally,
axons compliant with a lot of
other standards. So nist
center up. We also
specifically asked each vendor
if you know, perform manual
third-party penetration
testing, which they do when
they provide us those results
annually. Additionally, we
asked if the city county of
Denver could perform their own
penetration testing on these
devices to make sure you know,
we can also check to make sure
that they're complying with
their security standards, for
example, that the technology
services security team could
do that and day acknowledged
and said that they would be
willing to allow us to do
that. Interesting testing. And
really worth mentioning these
devices integrate directly
with the evidence dot com
secure digital evidence
repository that the city and
county of Denver is used for
many years. Acts on is the
provider of that. But that is
where all of data and evidence
is securely managed in stores.
I know the 2 mentioned that
there's, you know, we're
working on on various types of
insurance, isn't controls that
that we retain complete
control and ownership over our
data. I know that he did
mention that are team during
this process, asked very
specifically targeting
questions about will you
resell or provider data in any
way to any 3rd parties and
axons response was no, it's
fairly very clearly outlined
in their data governance
documents and policies.
Additionally, I know that to
mention this as well. They do
not use any of our data to
train any ai models. Also that
that language is being built
into the contract. So there's
going to be like I said,
numerous levels of assurances
of that. I know that I'm also
mentioned that platform is
inherently different some of
the other competitors in the
market and that there is no
nationwide ensuring that work
for the specific platform all
in all data sharing is is like
a one to one relationship
between one agency to another
agency and invite only fully
revoke a bull. So there is no,
there's no pathway for, you
know, inadvertently being
enrolled in any type of
nationwide sharing network
cetera. The get into a little
bit more. But I did mention
earlier that there is an
immutable lock, every user
that accesses the system, the
way in which they access the
system date and time with the
reason the system for has long
been all talk about the policy
surrounding that here shortly.
And then as part of our our
Dean ownership guarantees acts
on in their data governance
documents explicitly outline
they receive any type of legal
requests of subpoenas, court
orders, cetera, for for data,
then they refer that directly
to the customer's city and
county of Denver in this case
so that our legal teams and
city attorney's office can
respond accordingly to those
to those request.
And numerous policy safeguards
that that are in place today
and will remain in place. This
is not you know, a a
completely conclusive list of
every policy controls in
place. But I feel like there's
there's a few that are There's
a mandatory training
requirement for every user
that's on board the system. So
as the the Axon platform is
implemented, all users will
have to go mandatory training.
Part of that training is
outlining acceptable use of
the platform. These devices
MAY only be deployed and used
areas of the city that there
were. There is no reasonable
expectation of privacy. So
public areas public right of
way. There are numerous
explicitly prohibit uses in
policy. And these are just a
handful that I think it's
worth mentioning any type of
First Amendment violation or
any type of monitoring is
expressly prohibited when it
comes to to First Amendment
rights to any type of
discriminatory use, harassing
or intimidating use. Also
expressing put prohibited in
policy parking enforcement,
traffic enforcement, driver's
license, inforcement in any
type of personal use of the
system are also prohibited. I
know that there has been some
some questions about how
officers respond to pr alerts
in general and to make sure
that there's verification
being performed on those
alerts in policy. Officers are
not allowed to conduct vehicle
stops just based on an lpr
alert alone. They must verify
the validity of that. And
that's typically done
communication with dispatch,
for example, to to clear a
plea to make sure that's a
valid earlier. Acts on vendors
capable of respecting any data
retention policy that that we
wish I know to mention that
that policy is going to be 21
day retention policy. There is
a an audit trail and mentioned
couple times now on a monthly
basis, the cyber bureau and
dpd on the first of every
month pulls the lpr usage logs
and performs a number of
different types of mechanisms
on those laws, including
keyword, searches and random
audits to make sure that all
of the usage looks to be above
board. Then that date is also
shared with some data analyst
director Safety's Office for
further review on a monthly
basis in policy. Any officer
that's under investigation, I
will have their access to the
system immediately. Revote and
that will stay suspended until
for the duration of the
investigation. As far as as
far as to sharing I just
wanted to this isn't policy. I
just wanted to outline a
couple of of of our policies
surrounding data sharing. We
only share data from the
system when there's an
official law enforcement
investigations of another
agency approaches and desires
to collaborate investigating a
certain crime has to be an
official investigation. That
crime that's at the center of
that investigation has to be a
crime. Under Colorado state
law. So if it's if it's a
crime somewhere else. But
there are specific protections
and safeguards are in
Colorado. In those
circumstances, we do not share
data. That's a policy and
additional call out is we will
not share data to a
prosecution related to any
type of reproductive care If
that wasn't enough to tear. I
want to add too much 200 times
covered. Most of it.
>> Although we did conduct a
vendor assessment on axon, it
was a 2 full assessment
because our internal
questionnaire that based and
then we also are a provision
access to the at SunTrust
Center where we could access
applicable security and
policies and other documents
associated to Exxon. So it
approved from seclusion and
technology services and
privacy. They should also know
our price. Your view include a
review of the ai It standards.
National Institute Standards
and Technology. It also
reviewed and approved for the
architecture information.
Security. Ada, compliance and
records management. You know,
when we're doing a vendor risk
assessment, we're looking at
compliance. But we're also
looking at risk reduction and
ensuring that we're getting
the right vendor at the right
type of technology for that
business or the need city. So
it's really important to call
out within vendor risk
assessment conducting the
privacy review and the review
the technology at offers a lot
of operational technology.
Modern technology capabilities
that reduces our risk by the
information is collecting
being minimized and then also
from organizational policies.
You know, often my team will
joke around data. Privacy
policy is just a way for.
Organization to tell us that
we have no privacy because
they're telling us all of the
different ways the data is
being used and shared. I would
say that when we reviewed Axon
and we looked at the various
privacy practices and the
organization as a whole. It
allows us to have ownership
commander, bronze and tin
spoke about know, allows us to
have control over data. So
definitely worthwhile to call
out when looking at the
Obviously, there's always risk
when we work with any
technology vendor. But when we
when we look at as a whole and
we're trying to create a risk
rating. Choose the right
vendors. A lot of these
different technology
capabilities in the policies
of organization really reduce
the risk overall I will stop
there and turned over to Tim.
That's happy to take
questions. Thank you so much
for the presentation. We have
a to that started. It started
with councilmember parody
accounts cash councilmember.
>> Thank you. Thank you so
much. And thank you for a
time. So hopefully things
About this, both from the city
came in from Axon. So coming
out of I want to sort of
clearly identify what I we
have learned from from the
flock to Michael that I hear
being addressed here and I'm
glad he's being addressed. One
is the Denver will have its
data tenant on servers that
acts on rents from Microsoft
Azure. And that's, of course,
you know, the fact that that
sort segregated from other
cities data is a good thing. I
did want to say and one point
someone and it was so from the
lobbying to not anyone from
Exxon. And you could even MISS
Spoke about this in a briefing
and said that the data would
be in Denver. So many of you
were told that just because
it's on the cloud, but it's
segregated, which is
improvement from and it won't
be used to train. Algorithms
will be sold and they will not
respond to subpoenas on our
behalf because unlike flocks
are not apparently asking to
maintain full permanent
license to our data. And think
we've been assured that we see
this contract. It will have a
provision around not adding
features without consent.
That's going to be really
important because what I've
learned in briefings with apps
on is that they are working
more of the sharing features,
like flock, have, although
with more user control and
they're working on really how
they're different from flock
is that was essentially health
care company? Fox on, of
course, is all various kinds
of surveillance systems. They
collect a lot of different
data. We have a ton of
different contracts with them
and they're sort of place in
this market. Is 2 And so it's
it's kind of it's a different
concern than what I think
that's we're focused on the
lately. With flock. And I I do
still have questions about in
other cities like Seattle and
we've talked about this in the
surveillance task force. It
would be a council to look at
any new features that would
have to lead to a new
contract. So that's one thing
I'm really concerned about is
that there's just been a lot
of very careful language from
Exxon about well, today. We
don't have this today. We
don't have that. Also a
suspect, their own pr for them
is less developed than fox but
for them do grown know your
time. So first question, we
need I really want to know
going back to flock, what
guarantees we will have that
those cameras will stop
collecting images. And it's
not enough that they not. This
law says they're not taking
images because other cities
have experienced that. They
just simply kept cameras on
even after contracts were
ended. We need a timeline for
removal, potentially hoods on
those cameras. The minute that
contract ends. I don't think
that contract is legal in the
first place the Charter.
Regardless what it ends, those
things need to be off. And the
ceo when he was in my office
told me that they cannot be
black box. And so essentially
they can't be manually turned
off. You can't stop them from
transmitting. So I think
probably a good is engine or
removal is the only way to do
that. So that's my first
question is what's the
timeline for the cancer that
counselor and my team has been
tracking that down with flock
to actually diligently this
weekend. This MAY be new. I
don't new this feature is, but
they do have a decommissioned
mode.
>> And so fox is sure does
that at the date of contract
termination, every camera will
be moved in to decommission
mode and then we are seeking a
certificate of destruction
effective to of termination as
well. And then my team will be
working flock in order to
schedule the actual removal of
the devices as soon as
possible. Contract
termination. Thank you very
Concerned because that is
progress since we last talked
about a week ago.
>> From the tax services point
of view and how how can verify
the decommission mode is a
real thing. Where can we and
screenshots sent his son to
screenshots. So I can I can
share that. On their devices
themselves, they do this is
the calm the center screen
shots, pictures of
>> Ok, thank you.
>> I will want to more about
that, but that's great
information. Next thing, the
sides that we've say that we
have that our policy is only
to share in response to a law
enforcement investigation.
When oxen described the data
sharing that they're
developing, which is not in
place yet. So it's a little
hard for us to assess how it's
gonna work, which does give me
some pause again after fans
will flock. They are saying
that they're developing
developing it to one-on-one
where it would actually be
that you get access to another
jurisdiction as a user. Same
is with flock, not
case-by-case. So I think there
MAY be a disconnect there
about. What dpd says its
policy would be about sharing
versus how they are developing
the technology. And I think we
probably need to had that off
before we enter into this
contractual relationship
because that's just, you know,
if they're building the tech
to jurisdictional sharing did
rather case-by-case, then
we're sort of cruising for
that to the conflict with our
policies. So that's that's I
guess I'm curious if you have
any talked about that with
have thoughts about that.
Given that they're developing
that jurisdiction based
sharing feature.
>> can see that that the
intent and I haven't reviewed
the final contract yet, and
feel free. But yeah,
absolutely. There's an opt out
by default built into the into
the contract. So any new type
of sharing technology that
they're bringing to the table,
it blocking out. We would have
to explicitly popped into
that. And in the mind, a big
question mark for me is who
makes the decision to opt into
new technology and how now
within the city I think that's
still the conversation that,
you know, that is actively
unfolding between Council
surveillance task force,
mayor's office cetera. So,
right, okay. And I would be
really hasn't done for us to
enter into this contract
without that being sort of
because I think I mean, again,
we messed up by not knowing
the on national network and we
can do that So another
question about is auditing. So
as of now, our internal policy
says that we will require
officers to enter a case
number a a parent. And what
I've been told is that with
tax on online with flock, the
formatting will have to sort
of be similar to a case number
to be accepted. But it's not
like it links to our records
management system. So there's
no way to be sure that it's a
real case number rather than
just letter letter. Whenever
for like us and then when we
asked when we talk about this
before, I think the team told
me that our auditing of the
flock logs was focused on key
word searches and spot checks
and sensitive terms I want to
know if tbd will be checking
in a more meaningful way to
see that no one's putting
think case In other words,
doing more than spot chance it
does not seem that the systems
have been you so much that it
would be impractical to review
all searches periodically. I
think that would probably need
to be ndp's and tell policy.
So I'm curious what the intent
is there because that seems
like something we need to
enforced by actually looking
at that search absolutely and
Councilmember United Capital
yesterday. And I'm very open
to any suggestions on how to
increase, you know, the level
of transparency you know, say
MISTER And says so if there's
something reasonable that we
can do to increase the amount
of And I'm totally open to
discussing that. I think we're
trying to strike a balance,
though. Obviously, you know,
we want to to do our due
diligence, but we also want to
make sure that we're engaging
too much administrative burden
a month on a monthly basis.
Happy to additional
conversations with anybody
who's interested. Yeah, I
mean, the knowing the number
of searches that have been
performing Flock would be
helpful to understand what's
realistic there. So I don't
mean the question of whether
dpd season need to rewrite its
internal lpr policy to address
some of these things because I
think the way Axon works. What
the policy said was always
different from how flock
actually worked. And we need
with pauses to match how Axon
actually works. And if so, I
just want to fly that the
Independent Monitor Austin
last task force meeting. She
could be given time to review
that policy. So I'm wondering
if there's an intent to revise
it all. Clarify question here.
So what aspects in regards to
specifically how acts on
platform works to addressed in
the current policy? Well, I
think I should say, I think
the policy, for example, isn't
specific enough about what
we're based on the terms our
input into the system. Lays
out what the rules are, but it
doesn't lay out kind of how we
check for the rainfall. And
then in addition, some of
these sharing aspects, right
probably need to be in the
policy. Will share with
another jurisdiction a way
that not just with the
technology does. I'm always
happy to put, you know. We're
always have to be flexible on
the policy. I think the reason
why, for example, a keyword
terms are not explicitly laid
out in policies were trying to
stays flexible in as a nimble
as possible. So that MAY be an
stop. There's a procedure, for
example. But if there's a new
key word that that is
presented this week that we
need to start auditing for,
you know, to me that makes
more sense to put it in
procedure and then indicated
policy that we are following
these monthly types of pot.
Audit cadences doesn't sense.
>> And because policy isn't
updated a weekly basis, we try
to stay nimble with it. But I
can easily have my teams
update. Written procedure
known as quickly as often as
needed.
>> yeah, and I hear all I hear
the openness to do this. And I
just continue to concerned
that we've been through a lot
on this task force and made
province. But we're not all
the way through all of the
things that need to be done.
And so I worry about putting a
contract through without
having dpd policies and
procedures in place without
having it's an ordinance in
place and those other things.
And that's not for lack of
everybody working very h#
#
o#
this is because you certainly
haven't a lot of others have
been. Another question is that
I my understanding is that
originally we were talking
about 45 cameras on posts and
then finds cameras that had
greater capacity. And it's
something that changed to 50
cameras on post. Is that right
is and is that still what the
cap of the contractor fox
okay. Those cameras I
understand can do some live
streaming. Can you describe
church? So they are battery
power cameras the Dodgers are.
Then we charged by solar.
>> So the live streaming
capabilities in these cameras
are very limited. Great so
they can't live stream. 24 7
has to be a very overt action
on the part the user live
stream from that camera. The
footage is also not retained
great. So inappropriate use
would be, for example, the
real time crime Center
responding to an unfolding
incident in progress and needs
additional intelligence about,
you know, that specific area.
But like I said, they're
battery devices. They're not
designed to to operate in type
live streaming mode. 24 7. So
as soon as that operator
stopped a live stream that it
would return to its. That's
the motive. Just capturing
license plate images that's
different So this is something
I I've asked a few questions
just trying to understand but
it's fairly new is a concept
to me of how I would even
work. And does concern me that
the idea someone in the real
time crime center could open
up a live stream and watch.
>> Everything that's
unfolding. That's new and
different. And it's not
something we've it's not about
a lot in the task force from a
policy point of either every
you MAY be aware that the real
time Crime Center does monitor
a number of cameras throughout
the city in order you provide
better response and resource
allocation to unfolding
criminal incidents. To because
of this conversation, I didn't
know that And so it's sort of
a fun. I mean, I'm not
concerned about all those
cameras to, unfortunately, I
was not aware that that was
something that law enforcement
have the capacity to do. And
that is a pretty intense form
You know, COUNCILMAN I wasn't
limited to question limit, but
I'm gonna see at the record
reflect that. I asked I'm very
happy isn't an item. One more
question and then we'll get
you back you.
>> Okay. That sounds good. So
>> last question, then can
tell us all of the different
acts on products that the city
uses. The I think it's such
comprehensive list yesterday.
Don't want really MISS
Anything, generally speaking,
I'm not trying to trip you
body-worn cameras evidence dot
com which are digital.
>> Evidence storage repository
few sis which is the real time
Crime Center on platform. And
then lpr. Can think of what
also MAY be missing in a rerun
cameras, which probably
interview room Deo drones.
Scotty was not part of the
acts on coffee. I think just
acquired them. And I don't I
think they just told us that
they told office everything
yesterday. So I think they are
now part of get an honest to
is not a gotcha. I'm just
giving the full list. So
Taylor's evidence a comp uses,
which I don't think we've ever
been briefed on our have a
great understanding But in the
body warns and then the sky,
And that's where I just think
that all of us need to kind of
spend our time because this is
really different from fox and
the way that all these
different, you know, images
and types of data it's just
going be learning her Thank
you, MR. Thank you. Counselor
Perry counts cash then
councilmember
>> Thank Committee chair.
Presentation troops. That's
one piece of information You
have big question from come in
and Houston. It would be
forthcoming is as far as the
flock cameras go. Which crimes
how many of Which crimes do
the flock participate in
solving? Someone will looking
forward that. And sure
COUNCILMAN's questions on.
We'll live streaming and where
talk comes from tyranny. Makes
a little bit sharing only in
response. 2 official
investigation. Could tell me
more about What you that
investigation with 2? How
would that work? And then
sharing with another agency
who then nation are with where
the guardrails there.
>> great question. Questions
council member as far as the
data goes, we have done some
annual review. Some of our I
didn't Teams have done some
annual review of of the the
flock data from the duration
of the program up to about the
11th of last month. And can we
do have some of that data.
There's been over that that
platform has helped contribute
to over 500 arrests over 400
recovered motor vehicles and
over 60 firearms that have
been recovered. So obviously
quite a successful program in
my view, as far as And as far
as the sharing goes as related
to an official criminal
investigation. So what I what
I told many people is that,
you know, criminals often
don't really respect borders.
So so it's important that we
collaborate with our
neighboring jurisdictions and
in solving crimes, specially
patterned crimes and what not
so oftentimes we approach
agencies to thaw for
assistance in investigating
crimes. And sometimes we are
approached and there's all
sorts of different types of
crimes. You know, for example,
narcotics trafficking or human
trafficking or robberies. You
know, the Magic Metropolitan
Area, auto theft, I think has
has been, you know, a major
one for our state over the
last few years, right? So when
we are approached by an
external agency for help
investigating an incident,
typically that's referred
either a supervisor or
investigator in an
investigative team and obtain
additional information about
what type of crime is being
investigated. But that's
really what the necessity What
is the crime that's being
investigated I as the
presentation, you know,
elaborate a little bit. It has
to be something that's illegal
in the state of Colorado. In
order for us collaborate and
share information with that
agency. Show. Go back initial
comment.
>> aware of the overall number
cases have been involved. But
it's really relevant. What
were the actual crimes that
would that were solved? You
know how meaningful? In the
House we? More we open up the
door to sharing the more it
becomes flock. Other words,
they might not be an actual
nationwide system like, door,
you open increases the
opportunity for the. I I'm not
comfortable I need more
comfort around guardrails. To
that sharing couple other I
would hope. Contract or any
contract in ballpark. It moves
forward that we would have
regular reports. To committee
How it was unfolding. The last
thing I wanted to say fact.
Flock screams says d-conn
gives me no confidence in
time. GOD is not being
reporting sure I very least.
Recognizing cameras, whatever.
Would should be what are taken
The more I talk to who really
understand world. We're down
is is being collected from
multiple sources constantly.
Like what economy? So I just
want for that. I thank Thank
cast count Arkansas tears and
comes from Thank you. MISTER
>> Thank you for you know,
providing us the briefings
ahead of time for the
conversations that we continue
to have. The surveillance task
also been having conversations
out community and asked to
attend different arno's to
talk about specifically plot,
but also about just
surveillance tech and where
things are with the task force
and a lot of the questions
I've received tons of
questions from some of these
artisan. They've submitted. Up
to like 15 questions, some of
them. And so there is some
fall of only to have provide
that I won't asked all the 15
questions here, all of the
various questions that you
receive But I do want to get
at some of these things to
make sure that the public is
is aware that we're all on the
same page so can you tell us
about the privately owned? I
know that you can't
necessarily. You're I want to
make sure that everyone is
aware that privately owned
flock cameras will remain
because they are not
contracted by the city. Right?
And so one of the questions I
know I asked was will dpd have
access to those cameras and
data for investigations. I
think ultimately the answer
questions is yes. What it
comes down
>> Investigating any type of
crime occurred, right? And if
there is a private entity to
capture some sort of evidence
of that crime it's our duty to
to obtain that evidence to
make it part of our
investigation and provided to
prosecution. So the question
marks that my team is still
actively trying to chase down
is is what that that access
looks like. But I would
related to any depth, other
type of business that that has
a private surveillance camera
network. Great. Typically when
you respond to that location
and investigate a crime, if
they have of that crime, we
ask them to provide it to us
of the people. Want thank you
for that.
>> With that said, I'm one of
the things I didn't get to ask
him because I forgot about it
was drones that we were
utilizing from plot that we
had access to in a contract
that we actually were paying
for. It was they were being
provided to us free of cost.
Are exact contract still
exist? Are we going to
continue that contract?
>> contract still exists, but
that program has not gotten
off the ground were So we have
not flown in flat rate. Okay.
>> And then how having me come
due to the 21 day data
retention. Where did that
number come from? Because I
know there's been a of
conversation around data
retention. How can we utilize
to determine data retention
and what we know and why
because every day was kind of
the standard with flock. Now
we have a 21 day, which is
less and I see it as a way
like, okay, we're moving the
needle a little bit. But is
there a rhyme or reason as to
why is 21
>> I'm happy to take this
Thanks for time. The question,
COUNCILMAN, as you said, I
think most jurisdictions have
a 30 day retention policy.
There's some that 14 days.
There's a couple of examples
where it's less than that 3 or
4 days. But by and large, the
standard is 30 days. I think
in discussions that we had and
the task that we've heard
community members as well, it
wasn't something that we
wanted to be proactive about.
And it's a treat testing out.
Is there big loss evidence
between days? 22 to going
below something like 14. Know
the Denver Police Department
to look some of the homicide
cases where license role in
2025. Look to when in the kind
timeline of the case that
evidence became relevant. I
mean, it was pretty spread you
know, immediately within
minutes up to and including
ending 2020 or 30 days with
the lion share of the evidence
found that it was between like
3 in 20 days. And so I think
it was kind of clustered in
that period. We want to still
make sure that we were being
responsive in reducing it by
some but not by going too this
point. Okay. I
>> vast a couple of times for
just like the data on that. I
think so. My colleagues have
also asked for wanting to just
better understand everything
that you just said. Don't know
that her a level of that
detail before this meeting and
I would still love to see it.
Eyes to see like how that been
caused by the other piece that
I have is on has released
data. So when the evidence dot
com, readings it's happening
right of Has there ever been
any leaks from evidence dot
com we're aware Not to my
knowledge, okay has so our
data has never been
compromised in any way in the
past it's okay. Then the last
couple questions that I have
is around access to the who
will have access to those
audit. The platform,
administrators in command
staff.
>> And myself, obviously
access. We also provide that
data to data analyst and
director safety's office.
There are sensitivities around
that data because typically a
can contain Pei and receive
just enough. It's It does
personally identifiable
information and just this
information.
>> When it all continuing.
Yeah, I because personal
identifying information
because license plates have
been identified by the state
by state law. Those are
identified as person
identifying from just like
when we treated with with due
regard because of the
sensitivity of of the rent.
City Council or the public be
able to have any access at any
form of level of the results
of the audience we have
provided in response to
requests redacted data sets
that show various usage sign I
don't have any objections to
that. But just understanding
that we have we have an
obligation to redact sensitive
data from okay that's all I
have for Thank you, Thank you.
Cause Gonzales from thing's
for sure.
>> Thank you for intentionally
going about designers contract
to address most of them a
year. Concerns about the way
the system has been configured
before. Closed system
accessible only by We're going
to take only which initiated
by no, they are training. No
National Network. Like that
terrifying the question that
council just ask other private
flock cameras its to its
systems for the icrc. A lot of
them in my district after
shopping centers, one in the
shopping center where council
offices. There's a couple of
them actually. We will have no
self initiated. That's matter
is we won't be able log into
the flock system. See those
prior cameras. When relied on
moves. Shopping center
management that the access to
provide photo ultimately it is
the private entity that
controls that have our ability
to what that sharing mechanism
looks like. My team is still
trying to figure that out for
one stuck on our current
contract lapses. I don't know.
>> Have specific answers in
that regard. But I'm happy to
share with looks like this we
have information we have
tasers and body cameras
provided by accident in the
most recent contract. One of
the significant upgrades was
when an officer.
>> removes the Taser from that
holder automatically activates
the body cam. So doesn't have
to do 2 things body cams not
already activated for one
reason or another. Is there
any interactivity? Between the
flock between the Axon cameras
and then the other acts on
device. Solis stand alone.
Internal. It doesn't go
anywhere else. Among other
devices, halo cameras or
anything like
>> Right now it is
stand-alone. There is so
there's obviously an evidence
dot com integration. That's
where the gators essential for
was gone. And there's a few
says integration to that
allows the camera locations to
be viewed the few says map.
And then in those cases in the
real time crime centers
responding to an active
incident, they could act to be
live streamed uses strike. And
Bernard Live streaming we
asked the same thing in the
task force meeting last week a
chair when the real time Crime
Center says we need to see
what's happening there right
now.
>> We don't have a halo
camera, but there's a match on
camera the are stream from
that camera. That cameras no
longer taking photographs of
vehicles passing by. It is
being used on a large tree
moment taking photos. Is
correct?
>> I don't know that those 2
modes are mutually exclusive.
I My team is still trying
to figure that But happy to
provide that information says
we to know that and we do have
someone from acts online. I
have all and much in show. We
for that person answer that
question. Joe has promoted. So
to preserve you don't mind.
>> I'm only human while you're
doing Want to can council
PRESIDENT Pro Tempore Mayor
Council PRESIDENT Putin. If
you want to join the queue,
please communicate through
instant message.
We produce a lot of snow and
generally it's been promoted.
>> Part going here I introduce
yourself your title and that
customer Flynn has a question
for
>> It's my name is Joe. I am a
vice PRESIDENT Of sales tax
on. If you wouldn't mind
repeating a question.
>> Sure, when Cameron
activated for live streaming
for one reason or another.
Does it continue to take
photographs as well as large
streaming through that same
device?
>> Yes, it does. So the device
itself actually has 2 centers
on it. What is dedicated to
the alpr portion. The other
one is dedicated to live
stream.
>> Ok, thank doesn't provide.
Words through the live stream
of any vehicle or does that
function resigned? Only with
the photographs.
>> Well, all in terms all the
learning back into Arkansas
system to protect fails. The
are that the license plate
this. The the alerts come from
the photographs, not the
video.
>> Thank a couple questions
that have come to me answers
for these devices are do not
use facial recognition. Is
that correct? Okay. Was asked
that question. Constituents.
Putting pictures on the backs
cars. I don't workspaces with
being involved America. I have
to ask. Alert for him learn.
Versus a search of the
databases are 2 different uses
of the system. Wear them.
Camper trailers. There is
child abduction and number of
vehicle that's involved in
passes by a camera alert is
sent its verified by some
other method before vehicle
stops authorized. Does that
automatically generate case
number with your does it
simply a cad number? The
officer investigator responded
to that incident would have to
generate a cad number that
eventually become the report
number for that.
>> that's automatic. So the
hot list so that the platform
is capable of maintaining a
hot list of vehicles that, you
know, for example, a stolen
motor vehicle or it's just the
example to you straight. But
when a littler has received an
officer to take action on that
and create a system they would
there have to create a cad
number and put in record
number officer generate is the
system automatically generate
doesn't automatically generate
some of use. More immediate
example that a child abduction
because obviously there be
earlier report already I hit
and run and you got a call. It
was a white Ford Bronco with
but what I want for front it
had a partial plate number,
some signage. And hard to
watch camera hits on that. And
that's an alert. So that would
be that would just generate a
cad number.
>> As soon as there's no case
number, as soon as that's
reported to Denver, 9-1-1, can
generated right then.
>> All of the investigative
work and data collection
evidence collection can
centralize around cold water
to pull its ok? Can you just
describe what to catch them?
It's a computer aided dispatch
and it's just it's an
electronic system that that
Denver, 9, one uses track
incidents and to deploy
resources to those incidents.
And whenever there's an
incident that's received in
the system that generates that
unique number that then
essentially precipitate all of
that, all the data collection
and responses. 4 for so that
that creates portable trail.
With full searches that are
connected to that one
incident. Yes, an officer gets
a lead a month same number 12
20 days later, they be able to
search system.
>> are your final question?
Because we're sliding one more
and thank you asking happens.
Separate case numbers while
playing out for him do monthly
audits under this contract.
Yes, sir, will it be available
to You mentioned that you
would have access your data
analyst where City Council be
able to request seeing just
want to logs. What I want to
see license plate numbers. I
don't any need to look at But
the crimes, the cabs, senator.
>> They do have to be rejected
because of the sensitive
nature of the certainty that
know personally fine-tune the
nation. I don't want to
compromise. And then typically
that's why we that's one of
the reasons why provide that
data is sent the director
safety's office, the data
analyst there. So although I
have no issues with it, I
would need to to discuss with
the team. I don't know what
kind of a lift that is for
them to do that on suspect,
there will be interest because
going be theirs. And
councilmember Taurus.
>> you chair, thank you for
coming forward with this.
Despite that, we'll need for
council. But I really
appreciate attempt to have a
better transparency and
relationship when it comes to
this as far as their attention
period going back to council
Putin and his question around
the 21 days and data behind
that I still and not
understanding. How we got to
21 days and what is the
difference between a vehicle
that has actually been flagged
and just anyone that's driving
around the city.
>> So happy work dpd team to
provide a little bit more
context on. We arrived at the
21 day. Number. We looked at a
pretty small sample size cases
in 2025 and then look when in
the process, license plate
reader system became involved
are providing relevant and
we're to balance not
losing a bunch of cases where
provided relative relevant
evidence. We'll also be
responsive to the concerns
that we've heard from
councilmembers community
around. The longer you hold
that the longer it's possible
that someone gains access to
the system and use it. So
those are the 2 kind of
bouncing factors that we're
trying to strikes here in 21
days felt least first attempt
to strike to strike. And but
think it's an ongoing
conversation. Happened at dove
into a little bit more detail
there.
>> And how about when we are
searching for a particular
vehicle? How long are we
holding on to that data
investigations open? Is it
past that?
>> that already obtained
evidence for specific case,
typically what would happen is
we will take those images and
we would attack them
specifically. So the system's
a little bit different. Just
40 resides in dot com. So
socially would have to
preserve it for that case
because then it becomes
evidence for that case that
evidence was be retained as
long as necessary for the
disposition of case. Outside
of specific specific evidence
collected for a case that 20
one-day retention period. But
on a medic, the purge and he
did
>> And that something we will
see specified in the contract
with Axon?
>> The 21 day or the All of
Yeah. So the purging will
absolutely part of the
contract there will discussion
of the retention policy. I
don't know if it'll it's a 21
days in the contract, but it
will make clear. But it says
the city who are the ones who
set whatever that number is.
And so it's within our
discretion to that 21 days
higher or lower.
>> I guess my concern there is
that we can change that any
time without council and we
want him be necessarily need
to be informed. And so I'm
just curious what that process
also curious about that. And
who is going to be approving
that invitation. And will that
be?
>> There's no intention right
now to move forward with any
of those directly to sharing
relationships. I know you
know, I mentioned earlier,
there's some of these
conversations are still
evolving. And so I think, you
know, that conversation have
to be had with council with
mayor's office and dpd
collectively to forward. That
were something that we wanted
to do just Just to reiterate
on that at this point, it will
be only Denver police a couple
of other person news. Another
safety personnel access to.
This the city of Denver,
>> And then what is the
hickory and accuracy of the
systems?
>> I have a specific number
the axe on representative on
the call can speak to that You
know, do you buy step back
for?
>> also in terms the accuracy
of the system. All of that
depends on real world weather
conditions. But what we've
seen in kind of all weather
conditions is were upwards of
about 98% accuracy in terms of
the capture 8 and then
accuracy of that capture,
meaning they're 2 metrics that
you look at when a car goes by
how many times do capture car.
And then when you do capture
it, the accuracy of that read,
were both and that kind of
area.
>> the with the foxes staff,
you can also search for a
vehicle with a scratch. On the
phone for and other details
using ai. Will the system be
doing that as well? Or is it
strictly license plate
information?
>> That system our system does
have the ability to search for
things to characteristics of
the vehicle.
>> And will he having that is
part of our system with the
city of acts have is my last
question. Provides just public
transparency portal. What does
that mean? Where does that
look like? And how will we
provide transparency to the
public without jeopardizing
sensitive information? Was for
you. As a w.
>> If absolutely sure the
trial transparency portal that
we have allows agencies
publish how they're using any
of axons technology to the
public. It is a tool that we
provide through the few says
platform and so allows it
allows you to say what are the
technologies that you have,
any sharing agreements that
you have with other police
agencies or entities and then
also an ability for community
members to there, cameras or
register any cameras too.
Existing kind of use its
network, meaning called a
private cameras that you
previously talked about on the
fox Network. You can also do
similar things issues that
work as a private individual.
>> Thank. Thank Thank you.
Committee chair. Thank you.
Council Roby, there's
Councilmember Torres. Thank
you. MISTER Chair I want to go
back to COUNCILMAN Parodies
question about the ops manual
because there are several
references to flock in the
Alps manual. So assuming you
have to change that 2. We
references and replace with.
The name. This system meant
your potential? Absolutely.
Yes. And the policy itself I I
review routinely. I think they
biweekly with the city
attorney's office cannot far
from the truth. But is pretty
robust generalizing lpr
systems. You know, just
generally speaking. So yes, we
do intend to go through and do
some slight amendments because
explicitly it doesn't
reference live streaming and
any regulations around that
when then rely the guidance
under Halo. And we do have
some robust policy controls
Rican regards to all of
technologies that are used
utilized by the real time
crime center as well. So yes,
it would because it is a
camera device. Well, would say
that, though. And updated
policy language. If that's
tool absent provides. That
there would be even the
reference to the sections or
something else. Because that
just learned about that that
side of that technology here.
So just wanted something to
speak to that. I think that's
absolutely did call out. I All
of you that with the city
attorney's office was once
more to just make sure that
that if it's not in there
already, that we could
something that explicitly
addresses that concern the
real time crime center how
long does that then? Like a
dedicated team and how many
people make it up? So it's
quite a few years now. I think
I think the halo cameras go
back to the dnc that we
previously hosted. So
>> doing that math in my head.
It's been it's 20 years been
quite long time. The author, a
strength real time. Crime
centers is 12. Far below that
currently. But yeah, okay. I
don't think I have additional
questions. Only interest that
I have as as we just utilize
more frequently, do want to
better understand what impact
that has on redistribution of
officers and budget
consequences. I feel like we
should be creating more
efficient systems where we
need fewer people interacting
or we're trying to address
some of gap that we experience
with either response times or
something like that and this
is just the sense that I feel
it MAY not be real in terms of
numbers or data. We things to
the side of budget and
technology. I'm concerned that
we're not being very judicious
about. Where does that then
relieve us of publication to
keep putting money in our
personnel and when we continue
to both tolls and money to the
side of the budget. But I can
bring that up another time.
Thank you. Thank you.
Councilmember I have a second
that beef before we jump 2
quick First on year.
>> Policy and procedures
manual. Is there a reason why
we're not think not stick to
carriers, wiser name of that
carrier. Less than an We're
going to be going think that's
a good I was actually thinking
about that as we were just
discussing, removing flock and
then putting in an Exxon. I
think the reason that it's in
there now
>> is to differentiate the
unique characteristics of the
various platforms that we use.
So I will definitely bring
that up with the city
attorney's office and see if
we can. You just make a pass
from
>> One of 13 council members,
my strong recommendations that
were not flipping names an
opera Miles that we are having
procedures specific 2 systems
and abilities And means
because then you're going
continue updating whatever
basis. That is just my
recommendation. So would love
to hear city attorney's
perspective.
>> I have I have continued
concerns. West.
>> Surveillance cameras near
predict reproductive all
centers. And I would like you
to describe once what controls
that we have as we commission
on cameras from the last
carrier to now this carrier.
What? Controls that? We have
to ensure that new cameras,
our place places that provide
details folks going in and out
really ensuring that they have
safety, security and privacy
with going to reproductive
health centers.
>> Yeah, thank you,
COUNCILMAN. I we've had this
conversation a couple times.
We've also been talking with
some of the organizations in
that space I know dpd is
currently working on kind of
the list of criteria that
they're going to use for
determining where these camera
placements we're happy to sit
down with any councilmember
and have discussions about
either in your district or
city at large where camera
placements going kind of the
feedback there in a couple of
things that we've talked about
as it relates to putting that
certain sensitive locations,
right? As we've already talked
about, these are facing the
public right of way right
there facing public streets to
face in the parking lot. It's
not facing a specific
building. It's getting the
image is going through and
down the public street. So
that's part of it. The
reduction in the retention of
the number of days policy is
son, Parker, reflection of
some of the concerns have been
raised about the potential for
improper uses around
reproductive healthcare
investigations and there's
going to be there's already
policies and exist with be
explicit language in the
contract about the fact that
we have shield laws in the
state and that none of this
can be used for the purposes
of those types of
investigations. So it's the
balance of the concerns that
have been raised. Also
recognizing that a lot of the
sensitive locations, those
type of facilities, hospitals
and places, those are also
places that targeted for
attack other. Criminal
conduct. And so weighing those
factors as part of what we've
been discussing. But I'm
certainly chat about the
camera placement that you any
other member who would like
to. Thank you so much. In the
second round councilmember
parity visas tears comes from
Cashman and Council member
Fletcher.
>> and I apologize. I just our
council member Amanda Sawyer,
and you didn't go first round.
So if you don't mind jumping
in and don't go to second.
Great. Thank you so much.
MISTER Chair. Really person
and I want to say thank you
for hearing the council's
concerns about.
>> You a lot of the different
things that we've already
talked about here and being
responsive to them. I really
appreciate it. We have been in
situations previously where
we've had concerns like this
and haven't been responded to
with such thorough and
extensive conversation and
research and discussions. So
thank really appreciate Wanted
to ask about the 55 cameras
that are coming in in this
contract. So right now we have
111 flock cameras. This more
than cuts that in half. What
does that mean for kind of
system in general and the
impacts that I have? I think
we're going to have to and we
fully anticipate to drain into
the collection phase as we
roll out this platform to kind
of see where.
>> That plans to on. If you
want to see details in that
regard. But essentially, we do
know that they're, you know,
reducing the number of lpr
devices will have some sort of
impact. We're not exactly sure
where that impactful will
land, but we're definitely be
collecting data as much as
possible in that regard. Is
that does that make sense? I
think so. I mean, I guess I'm
I'm asking
>> this we have seen
significant success with 111
cameras are we going to be
able to have that same level
of success with less cameras?
I think there will be an
impact. And I just I just
don't I can't quantify what
that impact will be at this
plane.
>> think
>> that that's goes back to
their earlier discussion of
why tpd is coming up with
this. This kind of list of
parameters for determining
where cameras are most needed
across the city and then
obviously working with council
members to have that further
discussion around the
placement. But it's it'll be a
little bit of an iterative
process along with the 21 day.
Retention period rate is to
How much of a loss evidence
does that create? Because it's
significant not similar with
the reduction cameras. It's
something that will be
tracking certainly.
>> Ok, so are you kind of
looking at this that as a
pilot to see what that?
>> loss what that impact will
be, what all of the different
things that we just talked
about like is that are you
sort of? From a management
perspective? Are you looking
at this as a as an opportunity
to pilot a different
technology that works better
given all of our concerns. And
given the community's concerns
about data, retention, cetera,
that vision here.
>> Absolutely. That's
different aspect because this
is a different platform Levy's
previously. For example, the
retention period is, as Tim
said, is being reduced. So I
think there's there's
definitely different types of
metrics that we're going to be
monitoring and capturing to to
kind of judge the efficacy.
And I think, you know, as this
new platform rules out, that's
going take some time. This is
new platform rules out. You
know, we can start comparing
what that what the numbers
look like to the previous
platform. Really appreciate
that. I I will just follow
Councilmember Cashman's
requests that U.S. Keep us
updated on what this looks
like after.
>> You know, assuming the
contract goes through after
certain number of months,
maybe quarterly kind of go
over what that looks like
really appreciate that. I will
say thank you for delaying
this to a date certain because
I don't feel comfortable
voting on this contract and
tell they see the contract
itself. And the reason for
that is because task force has
been talking. Lyle about
creating an ordinance that
would manage data sharing and
privacy are across all
technology platforms that
doesn't exist at this moment.
I hope it does But what that
means for real world
implications is that
guardrails have to exist in
the contract. And that's why I
feel like I cam vote to move
this out of committee until I
see the contract because the
only place these guardrails
exist the contract. So really
appreciate you getting that.
That to us soon as possible.
And thanks again for hearing
us and for doing only work on
Thank you.
>> Thank you. Councilmember
And then Councilmember gets
off terrorists and let's start
there thank you, MISTER Do we
have an axon representative
available to be promoted or is
he he great. Thank you.
>> So something I didn't get a
chance to ask. And to
Beijing's, I've had with you
all that. I appreciate all
that time spent how a tax on
handle executive order or a
situation where the federal
government sent you a
subpoena. You sent it to the
role. The jurisdiction is the
owner of the data. But the
federal government then took
Exxon to court trying to get
essentially all of your data.
>> In in a scenario like that
is something that we have a
legal team where we would
fight against That's kind of
as far as I. And able to
probably speak to that. But I
get more specifics in terms of
like what we would actually do
in a matter like that. But
Lilly under contract, we send
the did send the foi request a
review because we do not have
access and it is not our data.
>> Something that we talked a
little bit everything in our
second briefing yesterday was
that also impacts on has an
ethics board around ai looking
into a little more actually
saw that entire board resigned
in 2022. So I We're talking
about a new word. It was
replaced. That resignation was
pretty concerning to me. Can
you talk about whether Axon
did anything to address the
concerns that led the entire
board resign due to the
announcement some time not his
quick to and then also use
surveillance cameras with
real-time streaming, which is
exactly what we're talking to
me what it acts. In response
to that words as a nation of
2022.
>> That's one of probably have
to follow up on to get more
specifics about that
particular piece. But all fall
on that.
>> Okay. I would appreciate
that because I wasn't aware of
it is concerning for dvd. Is
there any other software of
all the different tools that
you have available in the real
time crime center?
>> That has facial recognition
capability. Even if you're not
necessarily using No, to my
knowledge. I'm I'm concerned
that even if the even of axons
over them is not building in
facial recognition, that live
streaming capability leads to
the possibility of fake
official recognition by
wearing it with another And
it's just one of these things
where there's so much we don't
know about what happens in our
gcc that I have to raise a
concern. It's a member and I
know I just want to
>> a flag for you like, you
know, we're we're very aware
that recognition legislatively
regulated in the state of
Colorado. And so that's, you
know, you have to be something
almost all of our vendors that
dead even have anything
related to facial recognition
understand that we would have
to explicitly opt in and
typically we would have to
provide evidence that, you
know, we collaborated with
city council as required by
law in order to bring that
technology and to use That's a
lot. And our compliance with
is another side topic. That's
a reasonable course of this
task force. And I just haven't
had time to sort of fully ask
questions about. And so
>> I would like to do that as
well because just it's only as
good as our kind of enforce
mechanisms. You know, that
down flock was developed
initial actions and
technology. So again, we have
an example where all these
things on the on paper just
into the tracks. All I have a
question about that, but thank
you for that. Has the
administration probably hurt
him. Doesn't sort of diligence
on axons business immigration
enforcement?
>> Yes, mean, I know that they
have contracts with dhs with
ice to provide teachers and
body-worn camera. I believe
this was probably a top
discussion when the body-worn
camera Taser contract came
through this body a couple of
months ago. So it's certainly
a factor. This obviously a
separate program from those.
To my knowledge, the federal
there, there is not an example
the federal getting access to
that scenario. Lpr system.
>> And I guess I'm curious
whether after Mets executive
order recently, whether
there's any thought from the
administration about kind of
from like unethical
contracting point of view
considering those sorts of
times before we agree get a
lot of money to a company
because that's something the
mayor isn't interested. Happy
have a conversation. Will this
the time? Because we're about
to vote on this and we would
be, you know, paying money to
this coming. We have a We
hundreds company already, but
this would be a new one that
we don't have already. So I
just wondered about that from
the Executive branch Last
question here. I just want to
say correcting one thing to
heart. We are adding new ones.
I what can enter her and told
the task force is that average
range of time for what tpd
defines as useful evidence
from a flock cameras was up to
14 days, not 20. So I just not
to her split, but I again
wonder why 21 days and I also
carry us about ledgers to
actions have those 3, 4, a
time frames that you
referenced. Do know that tough
I don't happy have a
spreadsheet that I share with
all council members of a range
25 or 30 cities and their
retention policies.
>> then since I know that you
as long, just the idea that
we're not going cameras near
reproductive health
facilities. That's obviously
important. But that also. To
me is sort banking the
question. We know that don't
Cameras have been used in
other jurisdictions, for
example, to monitor protest
activity in the live streaming
capability makes that far more
concerning to me. That's
another exercise of
constitutional rights and
concert tours that are still
protected on like reproductive
rights, which no longer are.
But federal government. And so
it just sort of To me. I feel
like carving out particularly
well organized kind of
constituency in the voting
rights groups who I appreciate
and agree with. But then we're
leaving unprotected. A lot of
other people who might be
engaging in other kinds of
protected activity such as
first met. Right? So I just
want put that out there for
conversation. A consideration.
And I I want to add took a
very long time to get this
level of responsiveness. I'm
glad that we're getting it,
but I'm not feeling like like
any of this would have
happened. We have not had huge
amount of accountability from
the public about what went
incredibly wrong with flock
and should never have gone
wrong. Should have been put a
stop to a year sooner than it
was and so on. So I just have
to say that and that's not
uncommon for dpd. Those are
political decisions, but I can
sort of I'm not going to give
a lot of credit for for this
process because this is a
process that's been demanded
from the public every step of
the way. And it's been a lot
of pulling together. Thank
you. MISTER Chair. Thank
Councilmember Gonzalez get
discount cash money accounts
for Flint.
>> Yes, my question is for is
it Joe with Axon? Yes. Is he
any still available? Is the
main office. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. So I have question
about the trigger which
triggers the cameras to
activity and actually captured
images. When I met with the
fox it was explained to me
that there was cameras were
triggered by any sort of
movement, including someone
walking through a crosswalk.
So was it just a on a mobile
movement? It was unjust,
capturing license plate data.
It was also also capturing
people because of that trigger
and motion detection. Can you
tell me how these cameras are
triggered to capture?
>> The way that our camera
works is we have both active
and passive infrared. The idea
is basically a vehicle creates
a large amount of heat. And so
we have a heat signatures that
basically send turns on the
image sensor. That takes a
photo of the vehicle and then
we do analysis to pull out the
license. We're also working on
a motion based but that is
vehicle specifically are not
using these cameras to track
motion of individuals.
>> Thank you for for answering
that. I think that just puts a
finer point Lake making sure
that whatever, however, that
technology is being developed,
that there is clear indication
around that. Again, like not
going into the like facial
recognition piece rate of
identify simple in the use of
these cameras there was one
other question I had forward.
This is also for you, Joe.
Wasn't around. How information
is shared with other
jurisdictions. And I know that
dpd is saying that if there's
not going to be to my
understanding and open door
kind of policy or even
agreements with other
jurisdictions that everything
would stay in-house as opposed
to how things were being
shared before. But I just want
to, I guess, put a finer point
and and confirm if this is
actually true, is that We'll
see I have my here and forgot
it.
>> Is this so if there are
protect our Times when data
would be shared with other
jurisdictions. The Axon
different jurisdictions
because this is something we
talked about kind of artists
that we know that if a crime
occurs you know, the border of
Denver and Lakewood and that
person that goes into
Lakewood, that there is some
kind of collaboration that
would be happening. And so
just curious, like, where is
everyone's part in that
sharing of that information
across jurisdictions?
>> So on the opposite side
all, what we're doing is
creating a software that
facilitates that sharing and
then the facilitation
overtime. We're developing
more and more granular levels
of that sharing peace.
Councilmember parity asked the
question earlier related to
can you do it based off of
just case? And the answer is,
yes, we are developing. So
that will be available by the
end of this year where you
could actually have a sharing
protocol set up with Lakewood
or any any agency that you set
up the sharing principal with
and it can a space to come.
The reason based number of
different characteristics, you
also can have it set up where
it's the full global access of
of those lpr reads, but it's
completely on your and
discretion in terms how you
create that sharing principle
between agencies. There also
is no syndication of
information, meaning we are
not rewriting that your pale
pr reads into another
database, but other agencies
database, they are getting
access to look at the data. So
if you have your 14 day
retention policy or 21 day
retention policy. Those reader
delete it and no other agency
can be those because they're
delete it. And they're only
looking at your information.
>> That's on the Thank you.
Cards guns off terrorist
Cashman think you MR. Chair
bills from us to you know.
Talks still
>> Currently you're doing this
more than license plate
reader.
>> Because you said can also
look for body damage and Saint
truck on a vehicle. Trying to
find out exactly what. When
you're taking pictures and
just the back of the car. Can
you capture the dent on the
hood of a car in the roof?
What is being done?
>> Absolutely. So all do it
all is based on the
orientation of the camera to
the road. And so we're
capturing an image of the
vehicle as it passes the
camera. And so any
characteristic of that
vehicle, we would be able to
capture. And then over time
you be able to search off with
policy Right now. It is an
image of that. The back of
that vehicle.
>> It just shows that one
image as the car passes you
shooting multiple images.
>> It is. It a shooting,
multiple images and then
taking the one has the best
overall view.
>> Thank marcher. And just
customer fun. Temperatures I
just be commander. Of all
hundreds of thousands of
photos might be in the
database are rolling. 21 day
basis. I just want for you so
you can affirm that. Images
are looked at. Are based on. A
lurch. For information
developed after a criminal
complaint. But individual
beagles are search only south.
If I'm in there 5 times read
camera hard times in 21 days.
No one's working on my car.
Former car stolen. So we still
my plate robbed a 7.11 or
something like that. And then
on the other hand. If an image
is useful crime. In
investigation after the 21
days. How is that preserved in
evidence starcom and not
pursue because we're gonna
need a going forward for case
firing. So how do that set up
more medically as an automatic
Lee? Same those? The
detective. Drag and drop it
into the case file so that
available 21 days. Absolutely.
So to address your first
question. The majority of data
will be automatically courage.
There has to be there has to
be nexus to a crime that was
committed that we're
investigating.
>> In order for us to even go
look at that image and that
would be, you a fraction of
the total amount of data
that's captured in that
automatically perched. There
has to an official law
enforcement reason to do that.
And then as far as retaining
images, if there is an image
that is evidence in a crime,
then I know that the platform
has a specific way to retain
that, according you know, and
then tag it with the case.
Number. I can't I can't think
of off time. I had exactly
what the mechanism is. A new
platform. I'm sure some
members of my team know
exactly how to do that
already. But there is a way to
preserve evidence dot com as
evidence for couple.
>> In front starting just in
terms of that worked out. Just
be it called the lpr read. You
can actually just click a
button that says send evidence
case.
>> Thank you. That soldier.
>> Thank you. Councilmember We
have 5 more minutes to see if
there's any final questions. I
comes PRESIDENT Pro did not
have an additional question.
Councilmember Torres I to
myself into queue for timing.
But if it got.
>> a couple of the camera
placements for Flock had to
put up with tier 3. Permits
once we're no longer
contracting with them. Does
permit expired for them or
what happens with that? Know
you mentioned a new cameras
would be utilizing the same
encroachment kind of platforms
coming. Just tell me a little
bit had swapped takes place.
Committed. Please jump in as
well. The permits for those
rate of weight.
>> We're 4, 1, plate readers.
Generically, I think to the
earlier point, have term is
better than specific. Those
locations where there
currently are flock cameras,
her permitted and they would
remain to be permitted for the
permanent to flock No. It has
in close communication with
Donny and our understanding
right now is no, they were not
commit specifically to flock.
>> And the swapping of
hardware on those Poles should
no problem. Okay. So what's
the timing for this to come
down? As soon as contract
breaches term, our data spurs,
those moved to become status.
My team is working to schedule
the with flock, to schedule
the removal of those. I don't
know what rate yet. They'll be
able to remove them. But
obviously we're going to move
as as quickly as possible
because the existing hardware
has to come down. New thank
you. Thanks. Thank you.
Councilmember Torres song see
no further questions on based
on administration is request.
>> I will put forward a motion
to postpone this item to take
certain 3/18/2026, I need a
second second do we need vote
or up and down anyone that
it's on the committee that
comes up. Perfect. Thank you
so much for the presentation.
We have second final many on
week. We have one item on
consent on that has not pulled
off. So the meeting's
adjourned. Thanks, everyone.