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Next

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slide.

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Commissioner, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

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Commissioner Josh Rodin.

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Here we go.

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Commissioner Mark Tapley.

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Madam Mayor, we have a quorum.

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Thank you, Rachel.

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OK.

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We are going to start with our invocation given

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by Stan Richardson, who is the president of the Alamogordo

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Area Ministry Alliance, followed by the pledge

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from Commissioner Tapley.

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This meeting tonight, board, thank you

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for your incredible goodness to us, your kindness, and that you love to lead us in

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wisdom, you love to guide us, you love to help us in tough decisions, and thank you

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for our mayor and for our council, our commissioners that God are here that

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committed their life to helping our city and our citizens. We just appreciate

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them, ask a special blessing on them and their families, and just please

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guide them tonight. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Please follow me. I pledge allegiance to the flag

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of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God,

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indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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Okay, we're going to move on to the approval of the agenda.

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Do I have a motion to approve the agenda? So moved. A motion for Mayor Pro Tem McDonald. Do I

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have a second. A second from Commissioner Reardon. Can we put up the

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vote?

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And motion passes 7-0. We're going to move on to public comment. We have one

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person signed up. Bob Berger.

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Berger. I tried. Sorry. You will have three minutes

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and if you'll state your name for the record. Bob Berger.

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I'm Bob Berger. I live

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up in Silverado subdivision off South Florida. A couple questions. I've got the resolution

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over here about the water bill, you know, the increase in the water bill. Then I got

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my water bill and noticed about a 35-40% increase to me during that time. It occurred to me

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after reading a couple of things I wanted to know. Okay, so we tagged people for an

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I said to myself, well, I wondered if infrastructure money could have been used for that.

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I think there was about a billion dollars sitting up in Santa Fe, getting ready to be

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used and didn't know if we could use that rather than tag the citizens for the bill.

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So that was question number one.

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Question number two, along that line, I was trying to save myself a little bit of money.

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I looked at my water bill, saw my sewage had increased.

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I said, well, you know what I can do if I'm wrong or my trash belt, if I'm wrong, I can

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probably take trash out myself and probably don't have to pay that.

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Well, I did call City Hall and I did talk to them about it.

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I talked to the folks at the utility a couple of times and they said, well, I can do that

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myself.

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Why can't I just cut that off?

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And they said I can't.

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And there was two calls and then crickets.

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And then I was wondering, well, why can't I do it?

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And there was a mention of a something of an agreement between the city and southwest trash or a, it's written into some type of a denim or something that I can't do it.

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So I'd like to know about that. My numbers here on the board.

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Third kind of innocuous. I have talked to Mark about this to kind of share common belief is why we just don't go and change all of the stop signs.

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and now I'm aborted to yield signs.

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After all, I was thinking, well, I

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think you all think the same way I do,

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that I'm tired of playing whack-a-mole with people

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coming out of side streets.

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I live off the South Florida 500.

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And I travel mostly, I travel through the scenic 500,

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especially around the college, where I work.

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And I just think it might be a good idea.

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After all, there are rules governing yield signs as well as stop signs, but I think they'd probably be more useful.

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I'm sorry to say this. I don't think a lot of people use them anymore. So just a suggestion on that one.

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But I would like a probably a callback on the thing about being able to take out my own trash, I guess, just to save some money.

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Okay, and I do have your phone number here and maybe, you know, you know, somebody will

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get back with you.

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All right.

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Thank you.

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Okay.

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We're going to move on to, I only had one person signed up for public comment.

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Do we have a city manager's report?

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Yes, ma'am.

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Sort of.

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I have a statement from Mr. Rick Holden, city manager.

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He wants to put an official statement on the record.

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So this is me reading his statement.

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Honorable Mayor, City Commission, staff, and community.

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As has been reported, I resigned late last week.

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Contrary to social media account, I want to make it clear

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that there has not been any conflict with the mayor

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or any commissioner that led to my decision.

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The commission has been very supportive during my tenure.

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year.

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We have worked together well for the greater good of our city.

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City management can be a grueling and ongoing attempt at chasing one's tail.

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Outside influences, social media platforms, internal staffing issues, and expectations

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of a governing body can adversely combine making it difficult to accomplish goals.

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I have done this for years and it is simply time to take a step back.

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Thanks again for the broad level of community support and for being welcomed here in

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Elm agordo I do plan to stay in the area and who knows I may become a familiar

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audience participant here in the commission chambers respectfully submitted

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Rick Holden and then I also just wanted to personally thank the Commission for

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selecting Rick as the city manager after the summer of 2023 he is what the

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city needed and I think that speaks very highly of the Commission and your

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vision for Alma Gordo Ford. Also I wanted to let you all know that I work

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hand-in-hand with the city manager every day on the phone constantly and he

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speaks highly of each one of you. He respects you and he was grateful for

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the opportunity that you have provided for him. There's been no conflict and

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he is adamant that there is no conflict with anybody on the on the

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diocese. And then finally I just want everyone to know that there was no

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abrupt exit. He is here till October 18th. He did name me as the acting city

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manager just for continuity purposes until the City Commission can make a

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formal decision on that. So that's all I got. Thank you. Okay we're going to move

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on to remarks and inquiries by the City Commission and I'm going to start, if

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you don't mind, I'm going to take the liberty and start because I have some

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comments of my own.

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And I'm going to start by telling you that the day after the last

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commission meeting, I actually was on a plane with my husband and my mother and have been

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gone since Sunday night. And so I haven't been even in the state of New Mexico much

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less in Alamogordo. And obviously I came back and found out with everybody else Rick's

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decision. So, I want to be clear. While I can't speak to any specifics concerning

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personnel matters at this moment and my comment should be considered my opinion

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and not that of any other commissioner, I would like to address some concerns that

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have become an ongoing issue that have forced a good man to reevaluate his

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position within our city. There are people in our city that genuinely love

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and care about the community in which they live. These people work tirelessly every day

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with the goal of making our city the very best it can be. Having said that, everyone likely

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has a different opinion about how that should be done, about what our priorities should

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be, and about how we should get there. I've personally been on this commission now for

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just a little over eight years, and I have seen, heard, and definitely learned so much

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about our community and its members.

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I have seen and had the absolute privilege of working with the very best people, but

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I have also had the opportunity to deal with the worst people.

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People who seek to destroy the reputations of good, honest, hardworking people simply

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because of bitter envy or petty jealousy.

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People who believe that if it doesn't affect them, it shouldn't be a priority.

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people who perceive themselves as more entitled than others

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and don't believe our ordinances or policies should apply to them.

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I often refer to them as big fish and a little pond,

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and they honestly believe that there should be a different set of rules for them.

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People who want to tell others how dumb or useless they are, but will never step up themselves to be part of real solutions.

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People who sit behind a computer screen and join the masses who think that their city government is corrupt

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throw baseless accusations but never once produce one shred of evidence to prove their ridiculous statements

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and will never show up to an actual commission meeting or even go back and watch the live stream to verify their facts first.

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These people are content to read the garbage, literal garbage, perpetuated on social media,

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often by irresponsible so-called journalists with a personal agenda and an axe to grind.

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My minor for my graduate degree happened to be in sociology,

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so I'm a naturally curious, I'm sorry for my undergraduate degree,

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so I'm naturally curious when it comes to people and what makes them tick.

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I'm always curious about why anyone would use their platform to say such horrible and

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factually incorrect things about people who are working so hard to make this community

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a better place.

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For example, Almagordo Main Street and the numerous volunteers associated with that

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organization have given up much personal time to plan and execute the revitalization

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of our downtown area, and it's going to be spectacular.

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I was on social media the other day and saw their post and the comments, oh my gosh, the comments were absolutely outrageous.

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The ugliness, the hatred, the pettiness, it was honestly embarrassing.

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The new Sacramento School of Science and Technology is an exciting and innovative idea that will give our students options for learning.

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Yet the ugliness that has been spewed against good, hardworking people that just want to provide opportunities is incredibly disheartening.

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And then of course there's the old-age narrative that certain families ruled the community and they decide which businesses are allowed to come to town.

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Complete nonsense, I assure you.

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Finally, how about the personal attacks that have been posted on social media?

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I have been a victim of some of the most outrageous lies that were honestly almost comical.

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I don't know sometimes whether to laugh or be insulted that people believe I'm that petty and desperate.

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The latest ones are the mayor gets free water, and the mayor doesn't care about her constituents,

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or the commission is lining their pockets with our money.

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And most of the people that say that, they probably don't even pay taxes, to be honest with you.

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So what is my point to all of this?

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As you just heard, this past week our city manager made the difficult decision to tender his resignation.

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Well, I'm incredibly disappointed by this news.

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I can't say I'm surprised.

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When Rick began his tenure with the city, he was fired up, he was ready to go, he was

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excited about the journey, he was about to embark on, and I believed and still do that

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he was just the person to lead us forward.

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Unfortunately, I've personally seen that spark slowly fade the past few months, and

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I've had some real concerns about his decision to continue.

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I was personally out of state when he submitted the resignation, as I told you earlier, and was notified with all my fellow commissioners of his decision.

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And while I'm saddened by the news, I'm also angry at what led to this moment.

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On Sunday, a social media post came out from one of those irresponsible journalists I spoke about earlier, in which the writer stated that his comments were corroborated by three sources.

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That was a comment he made.

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His comments suggested that Commissioner Reardon was the culprit, along with another commissioner, which I find interesting, honestly.

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Particularly since no one would have known anything unless there was an employee of the city or a city commissioner that told him.

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My suspicion is the person was dishonest in his statement, but I suppose we'll never know.

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What I do know is that without a doubt, that was one of the most irresponsible pieces of

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trash that I have ever read, and I'm not sure what was worse, the fact that he said it or

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the fact that people, while I'm not surprised, were so quick to believe it.

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In my graduate studies that I mentioned earlier, I had a required reading of, it was called

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Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville.

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If you haven't read it, I would suggest you study because it's interesting.

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Everyone should read this, but it really is fascinating.

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He traveled America in the 1800s, early 1800s, and one of the things he spoke about that

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has always stuck with me is his term of the tyranny of the majority, which basically

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is majority rule or tyranny of the masses.

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Social media definitely applies here.

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We all want to cite the Constitution when it's convenient for us and disregard it when it doesn't fit our narrative.

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I think we can all agree that this absolute document provides us with certain freedoms unless you are an elected official.

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For example, the irresponsible journalist I mentioned earlier can hide behind the Constitution when he produces blatantly false information and cites an anonymous source.

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He doesn't have to prove anything, and he routinely takes advantage of many who are just too lazy to investigate the truth.

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It's what he counts on, and some people fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

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On the other hand, an elected official is silenced by the law, leaving certain situations open to speculation that that same journalist then takes advantage of,

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because he knows we can't say anything.

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There are times, however, when they go way too far and they need to be called out.

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There was one time where he suggested on social media that my husband, who was an incredibly

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hard-working man and has a home renovation business, was unethical.

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His business was unethical just because I'm the mayor.

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I was really surprised.

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I guess we're not allowed to make a living, I don't know.

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Then there's the numerous times he continuously slants, omits.

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There were two days in April where he conveniently forgot to print the police activity.

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And blatantly lies about individuals because he's so desperate for attention that the truth becomes obsolete.

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Listen, I think it's obvious that I don't always agree with my commissioners, my fellow commissioners,

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and the same can be said about them with me.

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But I respect the fact that they have stepped up to serve their community.

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integrity, the most recent garbage that he put out about Commissioner Reardon without

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any regard for the facts or how it could harm him personally demonstrates his clear lack

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of integrity when it comes to journalism.

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Once again, hiding behind the Constitution and his right to put in print whatever he

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wants.

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And unfortunately, that same Constitution gives us the inability to protect us simply

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because we are elected officials. I can't imagine that any of our city employees are

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providing information to this man. However, if you are, then I've lost respect for you.

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On the other hand, I do find it suspect that he had such detailed versions of events, even

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if they were not truth, and I do have to wonder where he got this idea. Then again,

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And I have serious trust issues, even more so after this.

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I know that talking about him so much is just beating his ego because it seems he has this

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weird need for attention, even if it's negative.

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And making these comments will generate a plethora of comments from the mayors just

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looking for attention to, well, that's what they signed up for.

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And frankly, it's to be expected, so I will just have to consider the source.

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I can almost see the headline now, but oh well, I don't care.

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We can't control individuals who commit crimes.

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That's a personal choice and not the fault of the city.

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We can't force businesses to stay in our community.

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That's determined by the consumer and their decision to shop there.

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We can't fix the negligence of the past.

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All we can do is take our hits and try to ensure it doesn't happen again.

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Nonetheless, it's incredibly unfortunate that we've become a society that would rather believe

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the lies than investigate the truth.

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The keyboard warriors that feel empowered when they sit behind their screen and try to literally

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destroy the reputation of good people that they've never even met because of envy, jealousy,

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a need for sensationalism, and yes, even pure hatred.

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They along with the people that want to bully our staff with idle threats without

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even giving them a chance to find a resolution before they start calling every commissioner,

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representative, and senator to try and apply pressure are the very reason I always say this

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is why we can't have nice things. It is also the reason a good man has made a difficult decision

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that it's just not worth it anymore. Honestly, Rick, I hope you're watching because I couldn't

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agree with you more and I say to myself all the time the very same thing. Yet here I am,

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the crazy one coming back for more because despite all the ugliness and all the lies,

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I am confident. I am confident we are doing a great job and personally I have way more

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supporters than I do detractors. Together working with like-minded people such as

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the Center of Commerce, APS, and Hullman Air Force Base, and the F4 Committee, and more.

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We are moving our city forward the best way we know how, and hopefully, if we don't let

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the social media critics discourage us one day, we will have nice things.

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And that's all I've got.

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Now, Commissioner McDonald, Mayor Pro Tem, I'm sorry, McDonald has some comments from

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an event that you attended this weekend.

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Yes, I attended the tribute for Willie in Estrada, Otero, New Mexico.

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He was born in 1929.

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He was a sergeant in the U.S. Army.

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He was killed in action, and he died on September the 22nd, 1952 in Korea.

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Sergeant Estrada, and I'm going to read the awards that he received.

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And as we know, if he died in 1952, all of these awards came after his death.

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It says Sergeant Estrada was a member of the 245th Tank Battalion, 45th Infantry Division.

255
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He was killed in action while fighting.

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The enemy in North Korea on September the 22nd, 1952.

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Sergeant Estrada was awarded the Purple Heart, the Korean Service Medal,

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the United States Service Medal, the National Defense Service Medal, and the

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Korean War Service Medal. He was awarded this, of course, after he died, and he

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also received the Distinguished Service Cross for Extraordinary

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Heroism in action. So I know the family, I know Pete and Virginia Estrada, who

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have worked with the, and I have it here, with the the armed forces, the

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The American Armed Forces Museum on Highway 82.

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They had open house there on September the 21st and the 22nd.

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I think it was stated to me that it was the museum is one of the best kept secrets in

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Alamogordo.

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If you have an opportunity to go out and view all of the displays they have in there

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and they have a peace garden in the back which represents every branch of service,

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You will see that they have carried on with little support as far as donations and that's

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one of the things that they are wanting so they can continue.

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And also they have a very devoted group of volunteers that actually hold up, well, the

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times that it's open from 10 to 2, is that it, 10 to 2.

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So they have volunteers that are there each and every day it's open and they are committed to making sure that we keep the news of any service man that is killed in action or dies.

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They're making sure that they keep a record of it.

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So my hat is off to the museum and thank you for your service.

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The other event that I attended was the Day of Caring, and that is done through Thrive.

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They had 140 volunteers that took care of 30 properties, and most of these people that

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volunteer from Holloman Air Force Base, they covered the areas of El Magordo, Bowls Acres,

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Clowcroft and Tulerosa. They have been partnered with Thrive of Alamogordo for

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the past 20 years and the service that they give for the day of caring of

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courses clean up everything that is listed. They get the names early in

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the year and then they make their ways to that property so they can clean it

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up. So I was there on Friday morning when they actually went out to do this

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job and it was it was very rewarding being there to see that we have a

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commitment to Holloman Air Force Base and the people there but they also have a

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commitment to Alamo Gordo to serve us and I want to say thank you.

287
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Thank you.

288
00:29:05,220 --> 00:29:10,860
Does anybody else have anything? I talked to Stephanie yesterday about a

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00:29:10,860 --> 00:29:16,400
constituent called me about changing our herbicide. They want a more human

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Women-friendly, I guess, eco-friendly herbicide than what we currently use, so I didn't know

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if she had any information on that or not.

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I didn't get a chance today to reach out to Belinda, but I will.

293
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I'll have something for you.

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Anybody else?

295
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I have a comment.

296
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I have several comments.

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First of all, Stephanie, congratulations on having a lot of responsibility put back on

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your shoulders.

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I've only been here nine months, but I got a chance to meet the staff and work

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with several of the people who run the city. I'm very, very, very impressed with the staff.

301
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Their commitment and the things that they have to put up with.

302
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:06,480
As you heard from the mayor, they don't always talk about it. They don't always vent, but they

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00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:12,220
do an excellent job. And for those of you who don't know, you have excellent employees that

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really love the city. You're right. This commission hired an excellent man. And I'll just be real

305
00:30:20,780 --> 00:30:27,520
honest with you. I don't meet people of the quality of Rick Holden very often. I think

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we were lucky to have him, and his integrity, his intelligence, and his humanity.

307
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And I'm sorry this has happened to him.

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So I would urge my fellow commissioners and those people who are going to hire the next

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city manager to do half as good a job of getting someone of that quality.

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And Stephanie, until that happens, we are not only behind you, calling on us anytime,

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And I'm proud to have served with you, watching what you guys do every day, and I'm in your corner.

312
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:09,220
And I will mention that next Tuesday we did call a, did everybody see that?

313
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For Thursday, didn't it?

314
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,020
It was supposed to be for Thursday, but something about not getting it in the paper on time.

315
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So it's going to be next Tuesday at 6.30.

316
00:31:17,820 --> 00:31:18,820
Next Tuesday?

317
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,660
Next Tuesday at 6.30.

318
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:23,800
See anything notice out on that yet?

319
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:31,160
Yeah, no the notice is out the notice went out October 1st at 630. Okay, I thought it said Thursday of this week I

320
00:31:32,060 --> 00:31:35,200
Originally that was the plan when I had sent the email, but we had originally

321
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But there is a new notice sorry yeah, and so we will be able to talk more on

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And I should have mentioned that in my comments, but we will be able to speak more on

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The goings forward after next Tuesday

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Okay, all right.

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Anybody else have anything?

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00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,660
All right, we're gonna move on to the consent agenda.

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Nobody has anything they wanna remove

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00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:04,700
from the consent agenda?

329
00:32:05,220 --> 00:32:05,980
Nope, okay.

330
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Do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda?

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So move.

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00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,020
I have a motion from Mayor Pro Tem McDonald.

333
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Do I have a second?

334
00:32:12,580 --> 00:32:12,960
Second.

335
00:32:13,620 --> 00:32:15,700
A second from Commissioner Burnett.

336
00:32:16,060 --> 00:32:17,200
Can we put up the vote?

337
00:32:19,620 --> 00:32:21,580
I guess that's what I'll just say from now on.

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I'm trying to find a catchy line, you know, and

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motion passes 7-0.

340
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We're going to move on to the new business.

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Item 5, consider an act upon ordinance 1707 for first publication of a map amendment

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00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:56,200
to rezone 1701 Cuba Avenue, and our city planner, Stella Braille, has some information

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for us.

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Good

345
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evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem commissioners, Acting City Manager,

346
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Hernandez. Yes, I come in front of you this evening with case Z2024-00058.

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The request is made by the property owners Terrence and Christina Macon who

348
00:33:21,030 --> 00:33:28,530
reside in Lafayette, California. And that request is a map amendment to

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00:33:28,530 --> 00:33:33,130
change the zoning of the property known as 1701 Cuba Avenue from R1 single

350
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family dwelling district to R3 two family dwelling district.

351
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This is the

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00:33:41,270 --> 00:33:48,790
the zoning area. The green is is actually R4 that's multi-family dwelling

353
00:33:48,790 --> 00:33:54,270
district and excuse me I believe the the name of the apartment complex there

354
00:33:54,270 --> 00:34:01,750
Capri Manor. I hope I'm correct on that. So the the square two, the right of the

355
00:34:01,750 --> 00:34:08,870
screen there is where this property is located on Cuba Avenue. The Makin's

356
00:34:08,870 --> 00:34:16,110
purchased this property and apparently someone had converted previous owners I

357
00:34:16,110 --> 00:34:21,430
imagine had converted the garage into an apartment. All this was done. I checked

358
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:26,450
records and it was all done without permits but it exists there so the

359
00:34:26,450 --> 00:34:30,850
current owners Mr. and Mrs. Macon are just trying to correct the zoning for what

360
00:34:30,850 --> 00:34:32,650
is on their property.

361
00:34:35,530 --> 00:34:39,170
Once again the property is located at 1701 Cuba

362
00:34:39,170 --> 00:34:44,110
Avenue and the request is to change it from our one single family dwelling

363
00:34:44,110 --> 00:34:49,190
district to our 3-2 family dwelling district. The application was filed on

364
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:56,850
August 14, 2024, the legal notice was published in the Alamogordo-Dately News, 34 letters were

365
00:34:56,850 --> 00:35:03,810
mailed by certified return receipt mailed to all property owners of record, excluding

366
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public right-of-way of the property for which the rezoning is sought.

367
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And that's the protest area there, so it was a pretty large area that I had to notify.

368
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As of today, actually, I have had five letters returned unclaimed.

369
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I received two phone calls requesting further information.

370
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One gentleman stopped by my office and just asked for additional information at the end

371
00:35:34,170 --> 00:35:34,950
of our conversation.

372
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He said he had no objection to the rezoning.

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At this moment, staff recommends approval since this request will not be materially

374
00:35:43,970 --> 00:35:49,810
detrimental to the surrounding property owners of the public and will correct the zoning designation

375
00:35:49,810 --> 00:35:52,470
for the two existing residential dwellings.

376
00:35:52,930 --> 00:35:59,630
Another thing that was taken into consideration when I was getting ready to make my recommendation

377
00:35:59,630 --> 00:36:04,910
that on that same block is that big area with the apartment complex.

378
00:36:04,910 --> 00:36:10,630
and the gentleman that actually came in to speak to me is the property right in

379
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:18,650
between the apartment complex and the one that is requesting the rezoning. I am

380
00:36:18,650 --> 00:36:26,390
open for questions if anyone has any at this time. Is it currently rented to

381
00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:31,530
two different tenants? It is not rented. I was told by the representative

382
00:36:31,530 --> 00:36:37,210
of Anthony making that they were trying to correct it before they went moved

383
00:36:37,210 --> 00:36:42,970
forward in renting it. So I grew up right there but I don't remember exactly the

384
00:36:42,970 --> 00:36:46,470
the front house was always a house and then they converted the garage you said.

385
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:51,890
Right yes sir. Okay you said there's been nothing was inspected I mean I'm

386
00:36:51,890 --> 00:36:56,630
looking at Google Street View here and windows are definitely not up to any

387
00:36:56,630 --> 00:37:01,690
type of code so my concern is is you convert this to something now you're

388
00:37:01,690 --> 00:37:08,430
putting people that potentially lease that space at risk and like I said I I

389
00:37:08,430 --> 00:37:14,610
researched records and went back I mean all the years since 1996 when we got our

390
00:37:14,610 --> 00:37:20,650
Sun Guard system and there have not been any record of any type of remodeling

391
00:37:20,650 --> 00:37:25,430
permits issued. There was a little man I grew up on 17th Street that's the

392
00:37:25,430 --> 00:37:29,010
reason I know this area but there was a little old man that owned that house for

393
00:37:29,010 --> 00:37:33,470
years and years and years and I think he was still alive in 96 so it was after he

394
00:37:33,470 --> 00:37:38,010
passed away somebody bought it and then they cleaned it up but you know I kind

395
00:37:38,010 --> 00:37:41,470
of agree with Commissioner Paul if it was never permitted then there's

396
00:37:41,470 --> 00:37:47,450
technically no CO for that garage portion of it I mean are they gonna go have

397
00:37:47,450 --> 00:37:52,570
that part of it done or I have that conversation with the applicant

398
00:37:52,570 --> 00:38:01,610
and from what I'm being told they're trying to do everything correctly so so I

399
00:38:01,610 --> 00:38:05,930
will have for the conversation with him and see if we can can get some sort of

400
00:38:05,930 --> 00:38:11,910
inspection out there. It'd have to have a permit pulled and a CO issued. Correct.

401
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,220
Anybody else have any questions?

402
00:38:29,260 --> 00:38:33,780
Okay. Do I have a motion? So moved. A motion

403
00:38:33,780 --> 00:38:37,520
from Commissioner Robinson. Do I have a second?

404
00:38:38,380 --> 00:38:42,780
I'll second but I got one more question. Okay. I was just looking at Street View right here

405
00:38:42,780 --> 00:38:46,360
on Commissioner Burnett's deal and it still has a garage door and everything in there.

406
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,540
So is it closed off on the inside or is it still accessible?

407
00:38:50,820 --> 00:38:56,820
I'm not sure if Mr. Macon is here. No, I guess he's not the representative.

408
00:39:01,020 --> 00:39:09,720
I didn't enter the the apartment but he says that it is completely redone inside so

409
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,500
but I really don't have the right to inspect.

410
00:39:19,710 --> 00:39:21,710
It's just kind of odd that it

411
00:39:21,710 --> 00:39:27,190
still has a garage door on there. See this is older picture. This is not the same.

412
00:39:37,550 --> 00:39:42,390
I was just trying to see if I could see pictures of inside, but that's probably what you said.

413
00:39:44,490 --> 00:39:45,310
It's like a workshop.

414
00:39:45,590 --> 00:39:45,870
Yeah.

415
00:39:47,190 --> 00:39:48,590
But I don't know how old it is.

416
00:40:00,730 --> 00:40:01,870
See, it's not the same.

417
00:40:03,230 --> 00:40:04,030
It's not, huh?

418
00:40:04,650 --> 00:40:05,490
So it's an older picture.

419
00:40:06,650 --> 00:40:08,910
I don't know if this is older than the other ones that are older.

420
00:40:10,490 --> 00:40:14,890
So Stella if we approve this does I mean do they just start putting people in

421
00:40:14,890 --> 00:40:24,430
there tomorrow they can now I don't want to start you in a direction but I I

422
00:40:24,430 --> 00:40:30,930
mean hopefully I'm okay saying that you can approve it with a contingent that you

423
00:40:30,930 --> 00:40:38,850
know the proper permits or are pulled in and that they obtain a CO and bring that

424
00:40:38,850 --> 00:40:40,750
to my department for record.

425
00:40:42,990 --> 00:40:45,650
And you wouldn't do that unless we made that

426
00:40:45,650 --> 00:40:50,990
contingency? I don't have I don't have that authority to do that. Not even a

427
00:40:50,990 --> 00:40:57,030
suggestion? Well I can suggest it but yeah but I can't enforce it. Construction

428
00:40:57,030 --> 00:41:01,330
industries would have to do that. CID may not since it's existing they may

429
00:41:01,330 --> 00:41:06,250
just say whatever. When did they purchase the property do you know? I do not know

430
00:41:06,250 --> 00:41:12,030
that because a lot I can see is the last time the soldiers in 22. Yeah and I

431
00:41:12,030 --> 00:41:18,890
believe it's around that time frame sir make making during our conversation he

432
00:41:18,890 --> 00:41:25,750
thought it was latter part of 21. And he didn't they didn't you said they

433
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:29,830
didn't make any improvement I mean no so whatever's there was there was

434
00:41:29,830 --> 00:41:35,010
purchased yeah it doesn't I can't April 24 so it's definitely a newer but on the

435
00:41:35,010 --> 00:41:40,650
other two years I was just trying to look at the pictures from when the

436
00:41:40,650 --> 00:41:45,210
listing was tall right Google map says and it's obviously way different than

437
00:41:45,210 --> 00:41:51,270
what now than it was then so it's in better condition now than it was then

438
00:41:56,210 --> 00:42:05,670
do we have any more questions it's kind of a weird one it is can we do that leave

439
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:11,310
city attorney can we legally do that put stipulations on the reason that's what

440
00:42:11,310 --> 00:42:17,510
I'm or would we be better to table this until we get those questions answered my

441
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:21,490
recommendation would be to table it to be honest because I'm not 100% sure

442
00:42:21,490 --> 00:42:26,470
that we can do that I try to do a quick search I'm not really necessary

443
00:42:26,470 --> 00:42:30,490
finding the answers right now if that's something that you guys were wanting to

444
00:42:30,490 --> 00:42:34,150
do I would rather err on the side of caution and let me make sure that we

445
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:38,810
can do that right now I don't feel comfortable saying yes you guys can do

446
00:42:38,810 --> 00:42:39,990
that okay do

447
00:42:42,070 --> 00:42:46,590
we want to table it we've already got a motion we do want to amend

448
00:42:46,590 --> 00:42:51,950
because you want to amend his motion or in second I was gonna go as a

449
00:42:51,950 --> 00:42:55,890
recommendation that we we table it okay so do you want to amend your motion

450
00:42:56,290 --> 00:42:57,510
I'll just withdraw it.

451
00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:58,250
Okay.

452
00:42:58,570 --> 00:42:58,750
Okay.

453
00:42:58,950 --> 00:42:59,690
I'll withdraw it.

454
00:43:00,090 --> 00:43:00,350
Okay.

455
00:43:00,910 --> 00:43:02,990
And you will get back with him and let him know.

456
00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:09,420
As a commission, you can give me direction on what you would like me to do.

457
00:43:09,820 --> 00:43:10,680
So we need that motion.

458
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,340
Let him know what I'll make a motion to table it.

459
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:14,220
We need a motion to table it.

460
00:43:14,220 --> 00:43:15,980
We want to table it until the next meeting.

461
00:43:16,700 --> 00:43:17,720
Does that give us enough time?

462
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,500
Or do you want to just table it and you bring it back whenever?

463
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:22,640
I'll bring it back.

464
00:43:22,980 --> 00:43:24,000
I think that'll work better.

465
00:43:24,140 --> 00:43:27,380
I'll bring it back whenever we get some information for you.

466
00:43:27,380 --> 00:43:35,380
Table it with no timeline. Okay. I would prefer that way. So I have a motion from Commissioner Reardon to table the motion to table it

467
00:43:35,380 --> 00:43:35,560
Yeah

468
00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:42,600
Second from Commissioner Robinson. Can we put up the vote please? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you

469
00:44:02,490 --> 00:44:07,830
Okay, motion passes seven zero and move on to item six consider an act upon resolution

470
00:44:07,830 --> 00:44:12,070
2024-63 declaring 1620 North white sands

471
00:44:12,650 --> 00:44:17,750
excuse me, Boulevard to be so ruined, damaged and dilapidated. That is a

472
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:21,710
menace to the public comfort, health, peace, and safety in ordering its abatement.

473
00:44:22,110 --> 00:44:25,910
And hello there, how are you? Good evening Madam Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem

474
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:30,450
commissioners, Acting City Manager Hernandez. I bring before you a

475
00:44:30,450 --> 00:44:34,530
dilapidated structure at 1620 North White Sands Boulevard commonly referred

476
00:44:34,530 --> 00:44:38,630
to as Tinsley Trailer Park. This is a case I've been working on for quite

477
00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:44,670
some time. Tinsley Triller Park, although that little red star is where it's at.

478
00:44:45,330 --> 00:44:49,610
They're between 16th and Catalina Whites in Boulevard. It does not incorporate

479
00:44:49,610 --> 00:44:54,130
that whole block. There are sections of it. It's more of a T-shape that premises

480
00:44:54,130 --> 00:44:57,770
is. Uh-oh. Hit the wrong button.

481
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,820
Back October of last year, I was made aware of a raw sewage leak in Tinsley Trailer Park

482
00:45:03,820 --> 00:45:08,200
and began the investigation. Assessable was discovered with raw sewage and three structures

483
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:13,300
were identified as dilapidated. On the 6th of October as well, I applied for administrative

484
00:45:13,300 --> 00:45:18,220
search warrant and it was granted and executed that search warrant. On the 16th, I mailed

485
00:45:18,220 --> 00:45:24,320
a certified notice of violation letter to the PO walks for the Tinsley Trailer Park

486
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:29,680
as well as hand-delivered one to Ms. Sewell, who is one of the owners.

487
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:35,780
On the 12th of March of this year, another raw sewage leak was reported to co-enforcement.

488
00:45:36,020 --> 00:45:41,060
Another investigation began resulting in a small cesspool of sewage being discovered.

489
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,260
And then on the 13th of this month, another raw sewage leak was discovered.

490
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:51,620
It's actually two different large cesspools discovered at this point at Tinsley Trailer

491
00:45:51,620 --> 00:45:51,860
Park.

492
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:58,380
There's 20 violations of international property maintenance code for this particular property.

493
00:45:59,020 --> 00:46:04,580
This is one of the buildings that is dilapidated and needs to come down.

494
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:06,140
It's bad.

495
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:06,780
The roof's bad.

496
00:46:07,740 --> 00:46:08,540
Sides are bad.

497
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:09,220
Windows are bad.

498
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:15,160
It was probably a nice structure many, many decades ago, but it just hasn't been cared

499
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:16,620
for in many years.

500
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:22,240
more pictures of both of there's actually two white buildings in this in the

501
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:29,610
middle of this complex that are very very dilapidated more pictures of those two

502
00:46:29,610 --> 00:46:34,570
buildings this is the two-story building in the middle from my

503
00:46:34,570 --> 00:46:39,250
understanding one of the original buildings on this lot and this picture on

504
00:46:39,250 --> 00:46:43,670
the right was what it looked like back October of last year they did slap

505
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:49,650
some sighting on it, but other than that they didn't do anything else. So as far as, and I

506
00:46:49,650 --> 00:46:54,050
talked to Ms. Sewell about it and told her it's like putting lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig.

507
00:46:54,550 --> 00:46:56,610
It's still not where it needs to be.

508
00:46:58,830 --> 00:47:01,490
More picture of that, additional picture of that

509
00:47:01,490 --> 00:47:05,990
two-story structure there on the left. On the right is one of the cesspools I came across

510
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:10,870
on the 13th of this month. That hole is about six feet wide and about four feet deep.

511
00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:15,810
It's not filled to the top, but the complaint was that it gets full and then goes all the

512
00:47:15,810 --> 00:47:16,790
way down to 16th Street.

513
00:47:19,250 --> 00:47:21,690
This picture on the left is that trail.

514
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:26,090
You can see where the soil is wet, and it goes all the way down to 16th Street.

515
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:31,610
On the right is a hole accessible that I couldn't tell how deep it was at the time.

516
00:47:32,130 --> 00:47:36,630
They did correct this and did have now plumbing go out and fix this one on the

517
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:41,650
right and that hole itself was about five feet deep and about three feet across

518
00:47:42,210 --> 00:47:49,690
and that's it was pumped out using a sub pump to get the sewage out and that's

519
00:47:49,690 --> 00:47:54,710
all I have I will stand for questions did they dig those cesspools or those

520
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:58,450
naturally made no they dug them it's

521
00:48:01,810 --> 00:48:04,690
nasty there is this trailer park does

522
00:48:04,690 --> 00:48:10,390
have approximately 40 trailers in it not all are occupied and there isn't one

523
00:48:10,390 --> 00:48:13,330
that doesn't have an issue that doesn't have a code issue I've been working on

524
00:48:13,330 --> 00:48:19,810
trying to create cases and work with because each trailer is individually

525
00:48:19,810 --> 00:48:23,590
owned and work with property owners it's just a tedious test. How many families

526
00:48:23,590 --> 00:48:31,390
will we actually displace? There's probably 25, 30 give or take trailers

527
00:48:31,390 --> 00:48:36,410
that are occupied. Mainly the ones along the back row back there back there by

528
00:48:36,410 --> 00:48:41,030
Teresa and then up by White Sands there's some and then back over by

529
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:47,910
Catalina there's some there there's some that are occupied there. I did have we

530
00:48:47,910 --> 00:48:52,770
did end up terminating water service two areas of this park not all of it we

531
00:48:52,770 --> 00:48:57,810
shot off about four valves if I can remember correctly out of the seven

532
00:48:57,810 --> 00:49:03,310
We did receive a lot of phone calls and most once I explained to them why we're all for

533
00:49:03,910 --> 00:49:05,610
Whatever action we needed to take

534
00:49:06,350 --> 00:49:12,490
Are they still currently without water? No net once that now plumbing fix that one and then the other one was

535
00:49:13,010 --> 00:49:17,750
Also, they had a now plumbing look at it said it was fine. They they bury them back

536
00:49:18,250 --> 00:49:20,830
So they're still they're still potentially

537
00:49:21,730 --> 00:49:25,970
two more that are there they were supposed to get the one fixed a year ago and

538
00:49:26,810 --> 00:49:31,930
And it's just covered in grass now, but that that gentleman kept that yard pretty pretty nice

539
00:49:31,930 --> 00:49:35,390
So it's hard to tell without actually going on his lot and on his property

540
00:49:35,390 --> 00:49:39,270
Which I would either need his consent or search warrant to do I think I know the gentleman

541
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:44,530
He's lived there for a long long time like he's trailer 45 or so in the middle. This one was a house

542
00:49:44,530 --> 00:49:46,450
I think he's on that side I

543
00:49:47,710 --> 00:49:51,890
Just remember hanging out of my buddy's house. He's his mom used to live there when I was in high school a long time ago

544
00:49:51,890 --> 00:49:52,150
so

545
00:49:52,910 --> 00:49:53,310
but

546
00:49:54,190 --> 00:49:54,590
that's

547
00:49:54,590 --> 00:50:00,840
How come my environmental department hasn't come with those cesspools and gotten involved?

548
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:06,860
We've tried and typically when it comes to that, we've had complaints before on our city

549
00:50:06,860 --> 00:50:09,380
yards and environmental department kicks it back to us.

550
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:11,720
She's new.

551
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:13,340
I'm sorry?

552
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:14,040
She's new.

553
00:50:14,340 --> 00:50:14,400
Oh.

554
00:50:14,740 --> 00:50:14,760
Yeah.

555
00:50:19,180 --> 00:50:19,740
Steve anymore?

556
00:50:20,140 --> 00:50:21,700
Does anybody have any questions?

557
00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:22,520
Steve moved to Texas.

558
00:50:23,420 --> 00:50:24,080
He's laying out retired.

559
00:50:24,300 --> 00:50:25,180
Josh, what's your recommendation?

560
00:50:25,180 --> 00:50:32,680
We can dim this trailer park. This is one where I and I think it is before your time commissioner

561
00:50:33,380 --> 00:50:38,640
I spoke of the broken windows theory that was put out by by a couple of doctors who

562
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,860
Looked at and examined dilapidated structures with crime rates

563
00:50:42,860 --> 00:50:47,480
And if you look at the relation between this dilapidated property and crime rates

564
00:50:48,060 --> 00:50:51,460
And the amount of police calls in here those go hand-in-hand

565
00:50:51,460 --> 00:50:57,280
So I think the best course of action is to condemn and give them an opportunity.

566
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:02,980
You can either bring it back to code or, you know, the alternative is that, you know, there's no longer a trailer park there.

567
00:51:03,820 --> 00:51:06,520
We have cited them in the court numerous times.

568
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:07,280
Yes.

569
00:51:07,420 --> 00:51:08,420
Like back in 2018.

570
00:51:08,660 --> 00:51:08,880
Yes.

571
00:51:10,700 --> 00:51:18,440
I can tell you that there isn't at least a month that goes by, sometimes a week that goes by that we don't receive.

572
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:24,640
I don't I'm sure I think Commissioner Burnett. It's his district and it's usually he and I that are included on this email

573
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:25,740
from

574
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:31,320
Mr. Mills a phenomenal man that lives over there and puts up with way too much crap

575
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:39,860
And I saw yeah, and he just happens to own a house in this area, and the stories that he tells me are just

576
00:51:41,460 --> 00:51:44,840
beyond outrageous coming out of this park and I

577
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:52,540
I fume. I even hear the word tinsley and I just fume because it's so unfair to the residents

578
00:51:52,540 --> 00:51:59,600
in that area to have to live around this. I have video of a woman that was running from

579
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:05,420
the police and he showed us video where she's hiding behind his car in his driveway. And

580
00:52:05,420 --> 00:52:11,740
I'm like, seriously? You can't make this stuff up. I understand there's a lot of families

581
00:52:11,740 --> 00:52:16,400
over there um this one needs to be addressed yeah some of them a little

582
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:22,040
more stellar than others not that I'm judging I'm just simply making making a

583
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:28,240
comment based on the emails that I've received so yeah I I have no issue with

584
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:35,360
this one at all Josh can you can some of these trees be moved out of there to

585
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:41,020
maybe a better location or potentially but I'm not the one to ask if whether

586
00:52:41,020 --> 00:52:44,020
whether that structure can be moved or not when it comes to a mobile home being moved.

587
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:50,600
I've had other people ask what companies are in town or around the area that move mobile

588
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:56,040
homes, and I usually refer them, hey, if you do go online and do a search, but I couldn't

589
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,200
sit here and tell you, oh, yeah, that one could or this one couldn't.

590
00:52:59,860 --> 00:53:03,440
Like I said, most of them, in fact, I shouldn't say most of them, all of them have some

591
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,520
sort of code violation or another.

592
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:06,160
They're all bad.

593
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,240
The actual owner of the park own all the trailers or do the individuals own

594
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:11,780
They're all individually owned.

595
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:13,600
The owner of the park just owns the space.

596
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:14,700
They just rent the spaces.

597
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,820
And then the park leases the trailers.

598
00:53:18,540 --> 00:53:19,700
I'm not real sure how it all works,

599
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:21,900
but I have a rental agreement, lease agreement,

600
00:53:22,100 --> 00:53:23,140
from them as well.

601
00:53:23,380 --> 00:53:24,000
Sounds kind of weird.

602
00:53:24,300 --> 00:53:24,420
Yeah.

603
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:27,920
Any more questions?

604
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:34,080
Yeah, I'll make a motion to approve item number six.

605
00:53:34,540 --> 00:53:36,980
OK, I have a motion from Commissioner Burnett.

606
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:37,980
Do I have a second?

607
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:39,540
I'll second.

608
00:53:39,540 --> 00:53:40,460
Go ahead.

609
00:53:40,940 --> 00:53:41,360
I'll second.

610
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:43,620
A second from Christian Hall.

611
00:53:44,140 --> 00:53:44,960
Can we put up the vote?

612
00:54:00,630 --> 00:54:02,050
Mayor, did you push your button?

613
00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:03,510
Yeah, sorry. I forgot to hit save.

614
00:54:04,450 --> 00:54:05,590
A darn save button.

615
00:54:07,490 --> 00:54:09,590
And motion passes 7-0.

616
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:10,310
Thank you all.

617
00:54:10,930 --> 00:54:11,630
Thank you.

618
00:54:11,950 --> 00:54:13,090
Thank you for doing that.

619
00:54:13,770 --> 00:54:14,470
It was much needed.

620
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:15,430
Quick question on that.

621
00:54:15,570 --> 00:54:18,090
Are we going to do the normal two-year deal on that one?

622
00:54:18,130 --> 00:54:21,770
Or are we going to hammer that one away?

623
00:54:25,740 --> 00:54:39,380
So, 2021 IPMC allowed for that, 2024, I'm sorry, International Property Maintenance Code, we call it IPMC for short, allowed for the two years and 24, they reworded that, where the code official can allow that.

624
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:45,260
Now, being as I gave them their notice a year ago next month, they've had a year to correct it, haven't.

625
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,640
So I would err on the side of caution of giving them two years from today to do that.

626
00:54:51,340 --> 00:54:53,200
Actually, we're going to start getting on about it.

627
00:54:53,340 --> 00:54:53,560
Oh, yeah.

628
00:54:54,460 --> 00:54:58,660
I think we need to, they've had a year to do it, they haven't, they've patched.

629
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,600
And we've had another cheerleaf park in town where they had sewer issues and they tried

630
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:06,620
to patch, but they ultimately hired a contractor to go in and replace the whole thing, which

631
00:55:06,620 --> 00:55:07,700
worked out for everybody.

632
00:55:07,980 --> 00:55:14,000
So I think, you know, applying, letting them know how serious this is instead of

633
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,200
the route we've been going in the past.

634
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:17,680
Okay.

635
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:21,420
thank you okay yep

636
00:55:25,900 --> 00:55:28,900
we already voted never mind I started to ask for a motion

637
00:55:28,900 --> 00:55:37,760
right don't distract me okay we're gonna move on to item seven appointments to

638
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:43,920
boards and committees I only have one tonight for the Parks and Rec Board I

639
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:48,920
have one there's one current vacancy and I have an application from Victoria

640
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:55,080
Maria Galinas. If appointed this would be her first term. I don't know if she's here tonight.

641
00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:05,380
No. Does anybody know her? Me neither. But if nobody has any objections, it looks like

642
00:56:05,380 --> 00:56:09,460
she lives. Oh, Mr. Dennis isn't here tonight. I was going to say she looks like she lives

643
00:56:09,460 --> 00:56:14,000
in the same trailer park. If nobody has any objections, I'm going to go ahead and appoint

644
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:23,920
her to that board. And with that, I'm going to move on to item 8, adjourn into

645
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:29,440
executive closed session in compliance with 10-15-1 to discuss pending

646
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:36,640
litigation downtown ventures. Do I have a motion to, yeah we're adjourning, yeah do

647
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:41,260
I have a motion to adjourn? So moved. A motion from Mayor Pro Tem McDonald, do I

648
00:56:41,260 --> 00:56:46,760
have a second. Second. A second from Commissioner Burnett. Can we put up the vote?

649
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:53,240
I close mine

650
00:56:53,240 --> 00:57:00,540
out already, so can you just vote for me? What is your vote, Commissioner McDonald? Yes.

651
00:57:02,100 --> 00:57:05,700
When we're done at the end of the evening, do you guys just want to come shut these down

652
00:57:05,700 --> 00:57:11,640
or do we need to, the computers, now that we have to do it this way, do you guys come

653
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:16,900
shut them down or yeah we can shut them down unless you're coming back from unless

654
00:57:16,900 --> 00:57:21,720
you're reconvening then leave them open okay yeah used to I'd shut mine down but

655
00:57:22,620 --> 00:57:28,720
just to have it my voting things and pop it and what's your vote yes and

656
00:57:35,700 --> 00:57:36,040
motion

657
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:39,620
passes seven zero we are adjourned thank you everybody