All right.
>> Everybody ready? Yeah. All right. This
is the city of Aenddale Estates, Georgia
Board of Mayor and Commissioners regular
meeting. It is August 26, 2026. It's
5:30. I'd like to call the meeting to
order. We have an agenda before us. Do I
have a motion to adopt?
>> So moved.
>> That was Graham. Lot of second. All in
favor say I.
>> I.
>> Can everybody hear me?
>> Okay. All right. Um, first up,
commissioner comments. Uh, Commissioner
Sedman.
>> Well, just welcome all of you to this
evening's meeting. Um, and I hope you
learned something and get to express
your, you know, your comments to us. So,
uh, I'll hear me out.
>> Okay. Mr. Swazo,
Mr.
>> No. Welcome everybody.
This is your chains
approach.
>> Uh, I don't really have much either, but
thank you all for coming in the hot
weather. I was just commenting out. So,
it feels like August has lasted a very
long time, so um I'm glad to see it
coming to an end. Um, that's it for me.
Thank you all for coming tonight. Yep. I
likewise have nothing. Uh, thank you all
for being here. We had a good crowd.
Appreciate it. Uh, Mr. Manager.
>> All right. and I'll say stuff since
y'all y'all have no commentary tonight.
Uh just want to remind everybody we've
got two big events in the city this week
um or this weekend. Uh Friday night is
the Aendale Estates kickoff centennial
celebration with a street festival u
from 6:00 to 9 on Franklin Street
between Olive and Pine. Uh, we have so
much fun to have. Outdoor music DJed by
Commune, a dedicated Kid Zone, local art
and live improv comedy at Little Tree
Art Studios. Those improv show
at 7 and 8:00 p.m. We'll have a special
Aendale Estates exhibit from the Dicab
History Center inside of the Olive and
Pine development. A self-care corner
sponsored by Referology Pilates. Food
and beverages for purchase from Skips,
Los Nños Takaria, Enzo Isakaya, Night
Owl, and Banjo. And we'll we will also
be including a special centennial beer
brewed by Wild Heaven. Uh all
surrounding businesses will also be
open. Free Italian ice will be provided
courtesy of Dicab County CEO Lorraine
Cochran Johnson. We will have decade
themed photo opportunities, temporary
tattoos from Aendel Estates's own Swinx
Tattoo Emporia, free coasters, and a
chance to see a working 1924 letter
press at Methane and specially designed
Centennial items for purchase by Methane
Studio and much much more. And then
Saturday night, the community is hosting
a centennial gala at the Aenddale
Estates Lakehouse. Um, tickets are still
available online. There's also posters
throughout city hall that include a QR
code that will link you right there. Uh,
should be a fun event. Uh, so if you are
interested in in that, please go ahead
and buy your tickets before they sell
out.
Well, thank you very much. Appreciate
that.
>> Okay. Any other comments up here? All
right. Uh, public comment. Julie
and everybody just name and address,
please, just for the record.
>> Yes. Julie Fleming, 40 Clarendon. I
don't yet have a final opinion about
what's best for Aenddale with our flock
camera contract. I'm here with an open
mind to listen. I promised some people
to speak first because
some people are nervous about public
speaking. I have always felt welcome,
heard, and respected here. I'm glad if
we see more people here or online. Thank
you.
>> Thank you.
Yes, sir. I suppose.
>> Okay.
>> I apologize, guys. This is going to be a
lot.
>> You're not going to cut me off. Adam
Gallatio, everybody. Yeah, I didn't get
a chance to time this. So, um
3048 place. I know a lot of you. Uh I've
been around here for a long time. Um so,
this is up block. I don't think a lot of
people understand what Flock is. It's
not a camera system. It's software
running AI recognition on all the
people, vehicles, everything your
national network video and audio sensors
picks up to establish profiles in a
database um of movement history and
real-time location tracking that is
searched by anyone with access to the
system. It's really big. I should
probably just skip all this. My beef is
not AAPD with Flock. It's everyone else.
Um, you can foil a lot of records and
people have uh I checked out a 729
search where we were one of 6,138
other network search. My concern is not
AAPD, it's the other 6,137
networks out there that have access
potentially to our system. Um,
there's the access we know about and
there's the access we don't. Block has a
documented history of lying to people.
uh block gave DHS backdoor access to uh
Washington, excuse me, Washington State
Police Department networks without their
wishes or without their knowledge and
against their wishes. So, they cancel
the contracts. Um there's loginins for
sale on Russian hacker sites. Uh though
Flock maintains they've never been
hacked. Technically could be true. A
local guy named Ben Jordan got into
their system through what's basically
advanced Googling. Um, and Flock
maintains that was not a hack, which is
accurate because it's not breaking in
when the doors open. Uh, Ben's stuff is
uh I shared is what one guy can public
share without being sued or prosecuted.
Imagine what an entity with more
resources and less concern for US law
can do with this system that's
accessible in our town. Um, then there's
Flock themselves. Done what he dad found
out a Flock employee accessed a camera
in a kids gymnastics studio against
their agreement. Uh Flock said it was a
sales demo except that guy only accessed
one camera that day, which is a little
weird. Uh and then behind closed doors,
Flock brought in a $100 million National
Political Crisis Management Firm to meet
with Dunwy City staff. Then of course
there's the 100 plus cases of officers
stalking their exartners, 20 of which
were in Georgia. Uh there's the Dunwhaty
search that I found for vehicle with a
political bumper sticker. I can't
imagine what legal legal circumstance
that could be demonstrating. Um, it's
everyone else I'm worried about. Uh, the
system is also horribly inaccurate. They
advertise a 95% accuracy rate uh with on
20 billion processes. That's 1 billion
false identifications per month. Um,
there's some I sent you guys a pretty
long email. Sorry about that. Before
this, um, they're also running
predictive policing features now that
flag people in vehicles on behavior
their I AI thinks is suspicious, way
match behaviors to a crime. Uh, and
again, so I'm not concerned with AAPD.
It's everyone else. Lock will tell us no
one else can access our system, but they
have repeatedly lied about this. There's
lots out there. There's so much out
there that I can't find articles I found
before because they are getting buried.
>> All right, that's it, right?
>> Yes. Thank you.
>> Y'all got the email you're reading.
>> Thank you.
» Yes.
Sorry, I don't know your name.
Hello, my name is uh Gregory Hendler. I
live at 712 Stratford Green. I am also
commenting on Flock. Uh I'm curious
about the details of our current
contract in the transcript from the
January meeting. When it was approved
and talked about, it was described as a
two-year trial run contract to see
whether or not this system works for us.
That I believe would have been up in
January of this year. I would like
clarity on the current state of the
contract, whether it has been expanded
or extended, and whether those details
were ever discussed publicly. Since that
original two-year contract, we've
learned a lot more about the Flock
system. Flock is a company. A lot of
what I was going to say has been touched
on here. I'll reiterate, my concern is
not with the Aenddale Police Department.
I don't think any of us have any reason
to think they have done anything
untored, but we're in the system and we
know that this system has been used for
the other purposes. Even during that
initial presentation,
some questions were raised about
potential security concerns. They were
dismissed and the flock representative
uh said that the uh people using the
system are too busy doing their jobs and
only use it when they need it. We know that is not true. There have been
dozens of cases locally alone in which
law enforcement officers have been
caught using the system for nefarious
purposes unlawfully.
Um some are still under investigation.
Many have been arrested.
Block claims his goal is to eliminate
crime. They want credit for any law
enforcement success stories, but they
show no accountability when the system
is abused countless times. Successes are
attributed to the systems power, but
misuse is attributed to individual bad
actors. Recently, the Flock CEO even
implied that's actually a great thing
that so many law enforcement officers
are being caught abusing their system.
Quote, "I don't think Flock created
police abuse. I think we're the first
company to shine a light on it and build
the tools to find it." So, allegedly
now, the purpose of Flock is to find
police abuse by giving them the tools to
be abusive. It doesn't make any sense
and they're taking no responsibility or
ownership for creating the system and
opening it up indiscriminately to
everyone they can. There's a concept in
system design that says the purpose of a
system is what it does. It does not
matter what the original intentions of
the flock system are. Invasion of
privacy is what it does. Many civil
rights groups like the ACLU oppose them.
Many other cities have already cancelled
contracts from Los Angeles, California
through as of yesterday, Asheville,
North Carolina. Aenddale should be a
leader and join them in protecting our
citizens privacy. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> Yes, please.
» Hi. Um Lizzie Ber, 712 Stratford Green,
also speaking on Flock today and also
during the working meeting later. Um, so
I urge the city of Aenddale Estates to
please take the concerns of the public
to heart today. We are not merely
reacting to social media posts. When we
first signed our initial contract with
Flock in 2024, the technology was new on
the scene. In the years since, there
have been shocking reports that exposed
the dangers of ALPRs as a tool of mass
surveillance. In my letter to the editor
published in Decatorish last November, I
outlined several concerning cases,
including a Virginia resident who was
tracked 849 times without cause
and cities including Austin, Texas, and
LA cancelling their contracts due to
data privacy concerns. And most
concerningly, a family held at gunpoint
due to a flock camera misreading their
license plate number. Since that was
published, even more disturbing story
stories have surfaced. Just this month,
eight Dicab PD officers were suspended
over misuse of ALPRs. And we are in
Dicap County. Security vulnerabilities
have been presented to the company that
they have failed to remedy. And cameras
located inside of a children's
gymnastics room in Dunwy have been
accessed for sales demo purposes.
A woman in Florida spent two weeks in
jail and seven months in traumatizing
legal limbo due to a mistake on the
flock data and officers putting their
full trust in this technology. This is
high stakes stuff and there's no room
for error here. Earlier this year, Santa
Cruz, California terminated their
contract with Flock after reports that
outofstate agencies were accessing their
city's data despite assurances that this
was not the case. I want to be clear, I
am not accusing APD of misconduct and
there's no evidence of that. But we are
connected to this entire network and
this company or any similar company such
as Axon do not get to define safety. I
believe that we protect our residents
and visitors here by ensuring that when
they are here, they will be safe from
any exartner using our cameras and our
data to track their whereabouts. Sadly,
this is becoming a near weekly news
event here in Georgia. We have had our
trial run and I believe that when we
know better, we do better. And we know
better now. And I'm happy to provide my
sources for the cases I've used to
inform my public comment. I will end
with a quote from the ACLU.
Literally the only way to protect data
from being misused is to not collect it
at all. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
» Everybody, my name is Kate Denny. I live
at uh 37 Clarendon
and I appreciate the work that you do
for us. You're part of our community.
you we voted for you so that you would
represent us and do what we want. Um
I think it's important that we remember
that
Chief Hess is going to you know tell us
about how potentially flock has helped
us but I think that we need to remember
that we're self-governed.
So whether flock is saving us from a
huge disaster it's still our choice
whether we have flock or not. It's just
basically as simple as informed consent,
right? Like in the hospital, your doctor
says if you do this treatment, it'll
save your life. If you don't do it, this
is what's going to happen. You are
allowed to choose. We are self-governed.
We are allowed to choose. We're allowed
to say no. Even if it's helpful for us
and most of us who are, you know, really
educating ourselves on this do not think
that it is helpful for us. But I
appreciate that you recognize that we
are self-governed and we can say no even
if our police in Dicap County think it's
in our best interest. We're in charge.
We celebrate that as a hundred years,
right? Of us being in charge of
ourselves. We do have this opportunity
to be the first state, the first city in
the state of Georgia to say
we can make our own choices. We're all
looking for that right now, for our
leaders at every level to really
represent us and to listen to our voices
and and thankfully you do that. So,
thank you for that and I hope that you
continue to listen to us and what we
want and allow us to make our own
decisions for our own community.
>> Thank you.
online.
>> Uh, Jennifer online.
» Hi, my name uh Oops.
I don't know if you can see me. I can't
make the camera work. But my name is
Jennifer. I live at 402 Kensington Park
Drive. I am urging you all to please
reject these flock cameras. These
systems create a searchable record of
where private citizens travel and the
dangers are no longer hypothetical. As
some others have pointed out, there are
dozens of documented cases showing these
automatic, excuse me, automated license
plate readers, make mistakes, and then
police act on that incorrect
information. Innocent people have been
stopped, searched, handcuffed, detained
at gunpoint, and even jailed because a
camera misread their license plate or
incorrectly identified a vehicle. They
were then forced to prove their
innocence at the cost of their time,
money, jobs, and dignity. Uh the
potential for deliberate abuse is
equally disturbing. As others have said,
we now know police officers, not Aendale
police, but police officers nonetheless,
have been using these databases to stalk
former partners and other women. When we
give the government power to track
people's movements, we cannot simply
assume that data will be used
appropriately or that every automated
match will be accurate. Public safety
should not require tracking of private
citizens and placing innocent people at
risk. Once this surveillance network is
built, it will be extremely difficult to
undo. Please, please reject these block
cameras. We do not want to be a
surveillance state where private
citizens lose their privacy in the name
of false safety. Aenddale should reject
this insanity. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
» Any others?
Okay. Uh any others in the audience?
Yes, Paul.
» Paul Dora 820 Stratford Road. I'd like
to speak to
agenda item 10.
This is the regular meeting. Says
consideration of the project agreement
for downtown Evenddale Multim
Improvement.
I'm going to encourage you to read
appendix F as in Frank. The way I read
that appendix,
if if you if you accept this, if you all
pass this the way it is,
that appendix says that Aenddale reads
two things. One, not to be a sanctuary
city. and two, more importantly, who
agreed to have our Aenddale Police Force
assist other enforcement
agencies with the arrest of what are
described as criminal negligence.
My concern has to do with what's going on in our country with ICE.
Uh, from a practical standpoint, I'd
like to see you all consider
mending the agreement to drop appendix F
entirely.
Uh if you read it closely, it really has
nothing to do with the road project. The
state of Georgia and Adidel are simply
trying to build a road.
Uh the the sanctuary city and the
especially the
having our police force assist with
those arrests doesn't seem to be
project. I'd encourage you to drop
offendings. Thank you for that.
>> Thank you, Paul. You're welcome.
All right.
Uh, no one online.
Okay. Any last call
in the audience?
Okay. Seeing no comments, I'm going to
bring it back up here. All right. So,
thank you for all your comments. All
right. So, we're going to move to item
number five. Um, we have before us the
August 12th, 2026 regular meeting
minutes and the August 12th, 2026 work
session minutes. Do I have a motion to
engross?
>> So, move.
>> That was Lou. Do I have a second?
>> Second.
>> Mike. All in favor say I.
>> I.
>> Okay.
All right. Uh, item number six,
presentation of fiscal year 2025 audit
results from Malden and Jenkins. Mr.
Manager, could you tee this up for us?
Yes, as we do every year following the
aual audit uh process and the release of
the annual comprehensive financial
report, uh Josh Carroll with Maldin and
Jenkins, who is our independent audit
auditing agency, uh is here to uh
deliver a report uh regarding the
results of the 2025 fiscal year audit.
So Josh
Thank you, Patrick.
And can you hear me? Yeah.
>> Oh, it goes. Okay. And thanks to the the
mayor and the the board for having me.
As Patrick said, I'm going to just kind
of quickly go through a PowerPoint here
to go over our results of the 2025
audit. Um,
this is kind of my agenda. I'm going to
go over our team, our opinion. I got a
few financial trends, the results, um,
and questions at the end, but if
somebody has a question as I'm going,
you can feel free to stop me as we're
going along. Uh, next slide. This is
Amal Jenkins. Um, we've been around over
100 years now. We spent a lot of time in
energy investing in state and local
government audits. I spend my whole year
doing nothing but counties and cities
and development authorities and state
agencies um, all over the Southeast. I
don't do any tax work like a traditional
CPA. I do government audits all year
long. Everybody that works on your audit
is in the same position. Um, you know,
we also audit Dicap County. We audit
many of your neighbors. So, we bring a
lot of local knowledge to your audit as
well. Next slide. The statements are the
responsibility of the city's management.
Our objective is your external auditors
to express an opinion. We followed all
the generally accepted auditing
standards, the government auditing
standards, and we did issue an
unmodified or clean opinion, which is
what you'd hope to receive from your
annual audit. So, as far as we're
concerned, your statements are
materially correct. Uh, next slide. We
also report a compliance and control.
Got to come in and we look at really all
your accounting cycles. We look at how
you receipt cash, how you disperse cash,
how you're on board and terminating
employee contracts with vendors. We look
at PC card transactions. We look at your
spending of SPLS dollars. Kind of kind
of go through everything. We look at
your segregation of duties and how funds
are flowing in and out of the city. And
you have clean opinion there. The city
has pretty good segregation of duties.
Um, you also had a big grant program
this year. This year, highway planning
and construction. We looked at those
costs, compared them to the agreement,
city did all the reporting requirements
that come along with federal programs,
and you got a clean opinion there as
well. So, all in all, really clean. Um,
this slide, if I was on the board, I
think I'd want to know, do we have
anything unusual or maybe aggressive in
your accounting policies or maybe our
estimates or judgments in your
statements? You don't. The policies are
disclosed in the notes. They're very
similar to a city of your size. Many of
your neighbors have very, very similar,
very common policies. And your only
estimates are really your useful life of
capital assets. Like how long do we
think a police car is going to last or
we're going to use it. We depreciate it
over that life. We we review those. We
feel pretty good about them. And your
actuary uses assumptions for your
pension liability. You're kind of in the
GMA plan. Everybody is in that plan has
the same assumptions. We kind of look at
those. We feel pretty good about them.
Uh next slide. We have a good
relationship with management. It
definitely takes the city. It's not just
the auditors. It's a lot of work on the
finance team of the city. Um, we come
in, we ask for a lot of information.
Nothing seems hidden or covered up. We
get everything we need, often more
information than we ask for. So, we
really appreciate the city partnering
with us to get the audit done and
dedicating your resources uh to help us
get it done. Um, we didn't have any
adjustments either. Um, we get a trial
balance. I know Britney's no longer with
us, but she gives us a trial balance and
we audit it. We do our thing. We don't
have any adjustments. is very clean and
I've worked with Tony Joe in the past
and I think you guys will be really
pleased with her and we'll be in the
same place for the 2026 audit. And we
are independent. Um we don't close the
books. We don't post journal entries. We
don't reconcile bank accounts. We just
do the audit. So the clean opinion you
have is not influenced by us kind of
auditing our own work. Uh next slide. Um
you can skip this one. We'll go to the
next one. Um so this is kind of my one
uh financial trend. This is your general
fund which is the main operating fund of
the city and it shows your fund balance.
Another word for fund balance is equity.
Um, and it kind of shows it as compared
to your your annual expenses and your
transfers out to other funds. So, kind
of had a big dip down this year. And the
purple there I wrote we transferred a
lot of money to the capital fund. Um, we
just kind of moved it over there. So,
that fund's going to hold it and use it
for whatever capital we budget to spend
in the future. So, that's the real
reason for the big dip down. If we took
that out, you still be at 53%. The
GFOAS, the standard setting body for
local government, they recommend two to
three months as a minimum threshold. We
don't want to see anybody go below that.
That's 16 to 25%. So you're you're even
double that even with the big transfer
out. You got a healthy fund balance. Um
what we like to see. Um next slide. So
we do have two management comments. We
don't have any findings findings make it
into your actual audit report. These are
just FYI we came across them. They were
here last year. They're kind of repeats.
And the the one is the payroll
processor. you know, the the the company
we use, they don't have a sock one
performed, and that creates some low
level of risk. We have some procedures
in place where we review their
information, but just want to kind of
continue to remind them that they don't
have a SAC one reformed where it kind of
walks through their controls and how
they they how they operate and how they
do what they do. Um, and the journal
entries, you know, Britney was still had
the ability to post journal entries and
approve them without kind of an
independent segregation of duties.
That's not a perfect world. It's a small
finance department. Um, that has trended
down over the years. It used to be a
whole bunch of them, but she does have
an employee in there and there was some
segregation, but sometimes she just had
to get it done, so she posted entries.
So, kind of continue to highlight that,
but nothing over consu concerning. It's
a clean audit. You got good segregation
of duties throughout the city. You know,
cash coming in gets to the bank and
there's checks and balances on the money
going out the door, which is really what
I think the board will be most concerned
with. Um, next slide. And we are a
full-ervice EPA firm. We have a
government advisory services group. Um
they do a lot of projects in these four
buckets here. They deal they deal kind
of operations. You know the audit that I
do is very financial in nature and are
we reporting the money right? Are we
following Gazsby and following GAP and
following acral basis of accounting and
they deal more with operations and kind
of like the flow of funds and how are
things flowing through the city? Why are
we doing what we're doing? how to that
align with maybe our own internal
policies and maybe best practices and
how could we ultimately deliver more
efficient services to this the citizens
of Aenddale. Um so that is something we
offer outside the scope of the audit.
It's something the board is ever
interested in hearing more about. I'd
love to, you know, connect you with the
partner that heads that up. It's it's
not an audit. They're not CPAs. They don't do accounting. They do, like
I said, it's just more operational and
what we're how we're doing and how the
funds and everything are flowing through
the city. Um so that is something we
offer. Next slide. And we also have an
IT group. Um they do a lot of cyber
security assessments. Um they look at
kind of like a gap analysis of what
information do we have from you know our
citizens or any vendors we work with and
how do we protect and keep that data you
know safe and what are we doing? Well
the world's ever changing. I usually use
this slide as just kind of a reminder
that we have information and the hackers
are always out there and I see this a
lot. It's some of the largest
governments we work with and even some
that are minuscule. So, no one's too big
or too small. So, just kind of remind
our IT group to stay a breast of the
changes and but we do have a group that
deals with this if it's something you're
interested in. It's outside the scope of
the audit, but we'd love to help out.
Um, and then we can kind of skip to the
end. These are Gazsby's busy, but we'll
implement those as they come along. And
that's really all I've got. It's a clean
audit. And, you know, like I said, we
really appreciate the city partner with
us to get it done. Um, it's a big big
task for y'all. And we do offer free CPE
to all of our clients. Um Tony Joe will
attend those. They're they're a heavy
government accounting basis, but anybody
at the city's welcome to attend. And
they are free. They're quarterly.
They're virtual. You don't have to drive
anywhere. You just do it on Zoom or
Teams. And so appreciate the opportunity
to work with y'all. And if there's
questions, I'm happy to answer them.
>> Thank you.
>> Great. Thank you.
>> Yeah. Thank you.
>> I have none. Anybody?
» No. Thank for coming up with a clean
audit.
>> Yeah.
>> Thanks for having me.
>> Thank you.
>> Good job, guys.
>> Yes.
>> Thank you. Okay. Uh any questions,
comments appear regarding that?
>> All right. Uh item number seven, Mr.
Manager?
>> Yes. So tonight is the second read andor
consideration for uh the 2026 fiscal
year proposed budget amendments. Uh
nothing has changed between uh the last
read and this read. So it's still the
same information. Uh one thing I do want
to bring to your attention. Uh however,
we're not ready to make a a
recommendation on a revision for this
quite yet. Uh but uh we we have received
uh the 30% engineered drawings for the
Southwoods storm water and dam
rehabilitation project.
uh the phase one. If y'all recall, uh,
we began the the engineering work for
the phase one, uh, which is the west
side of the, uh, South Woods where the
pipe was exposed.
>> Uh, and, uh, that cost is projected
lower than, uh,
or maybe I should say within anticipated
budget. uh which will allow us to now
move forward with the phase two design
uh comfortably. Uh we anticipate by the
end of the year we will have those
completely engineered and ready for bid.
Uh at that time we will be able to get a
really good cost estimate for the
project in its entirety. And so when we
go through the 27 budget process and
begin to adjust the capital program for
that, uh I think we'll have an
opportunity to um uh reallocate some of
the funds that were otherwise pledged
for that project to other storm water
projects, which will probably also allow
us to free up uh capital monies uh for
other purposes. So that is good news. Uh
we're very we're very excited that uh
we're going to be able to move forward
with that project in its entirety. Um,
regarding the remainder of the the uh
consideration for you tonight, uh, just
kind of as a quick recap, um, we have
revised
uh, the 26 budget uh, for um, a a kind
of a a reduction in property tax
anticipated property tax collections
based on uh, the final digest and the
change in millage rate. Uh we have also
included uh the the operating budget for
2026 centennial activities
uh and uh made some changes to the
capital program to reflect the inclusion
of the center street storm water
project. uh the increase in the uh
monies allocated for uh the the the
improvements to the city hall facility
and uh monies that were provided via
donation uh thanks to Waffle House. Um
if y'all have any additional questions,
I'm happy to answer. Uh but that's all
of the information you have remains
unchanged.
How much was that estimate that they
gave us
>> for phase one?
>> Uh, $1.3 million.
» Um,
uh, what what projects do we um
out of this list do we think we're
actually going to get done hopefully the
end of the year?
um that that it depends. Now, I want to
remind you and the remainder of the
board that the capital program is not a
one-year budget. That is a two-year
rolling program that is that continues
to roll. It's like a it's a living
program. So, um not all of those
projects on the capital program are
scheduled for completion this year. Not
all of those projects that are on the
program will be scheduled for completion
next year. Some of those will roll into
future years. Those are just the
identified capital projects that we know
of and potential funding sources
allocated to those. Any any of those
projects to actually begin execution
would require an additional uh
appropriation via a contract from you
guys. So y'all actually get a acute
opportunity to make a decision about any
of the projects that are listed within
the capital program.
» Any other questions up here?
>> Well, I just um I would just like to
make a comment. Um I feel like that um
that we need a uh more cash flow basis
for our capital projects reporting. Um
so that we do see you know most places
do three to five years out where we kind
of project and then you know a more
specific kind of um information about
where the revenue is coming from to pay
those projects. um some of it's kind of
wrapped into the balance. Um and so to
me it's not, you know, it's just not
clear enough, you know, as to what we
are going to get done and when we're
going to do it. And I would like to see
that expanded.
» Others
motions, comments. Good.
>> Everybody good? All right. So, let's
see. Uh, do I have a motion to approve
an ordinance amending the budget for
fiscal year 2026 for the city of Avidel
Estates?
>> So, moved.
>> That was Graham. Do I have a second?
That was Mike. All in favor say
I. I.
>> All opposed. Nay.
>> Um, and that is because there are some
projects on there that I don't approve
of and also that I don't feel like I
have a clear enough u idea of the
revenues coming through to
» Okay. All right. Item number eight. Uh
we have talked about adopting a civility
pledge for two meetings.
I think two
>> yes multiple meetings that has been
discussed in the work
>> and we have kind of
settled on for lack of a better word two
versions. Um so we agreed that we were
just going to vote up or down on the
two. Um any comments beforehand up here?
Um
well, I mean, I would like to make a
motion that we um pass the one that
includes the final comment that the
board recognizes that these principles
are intended to establish the standards
of professional conduct perspective of
city officials. Conduct inconsistent
with these principles may be may be
addressed by the board through its
existing authority under the charter
city ordinance, personnel policies,
employment agreements, and other ethical
laws. That's what I would like to have
to approve.
>> Okay, that's version two. So,
Commissioner Stevens made a motion. Is
there a second?
Is there is there a way to get
clarification on the because like I
apologize. Um
>> just a further explanation on that that
>> version one and version two are almost
identical. Version two includes section
8 with the language that Commissioner
Steedman just referenced.
Is there anything wrong with that?
>> Is there can you explain section 8? Are
you able to um
as to what what difference I mean
>> materially? No. Uh
the the the language simply uh states
um or or condenses or compiles
um
you know a a reaffirmation
to follow your existing laws and and uh
policies.
But it's just a reaffirmation. Correct.
>> That is correct.
» So motion has been made.
>> Got a second. Wait, I did not have a
second.
>> It just it just reaffirms what the prior
ones do. I mean, is there any
difference? I um
>> there's no legal difference here.
I mean, if there's no legal difference,
I mean, and we're reaffirming the
previous points, I mean, I'm okay with
the second.
>> Okay. So,
Mr. Smith has made a second. Okay. All
in favor say I.
>> I.
All post say nay.
>> Nay.
>> All right. So, that's two, three. All
right. So, do I have a motion to approve
version one?
>> So moved. That was Graham. Do I have a
second?
>> Second.
>> That was Louie.
>> Any comments, questions?
>> I'll make a comment.
>> Okay. So the reason why I feel that the
first one is more consistent with what
it is the civility of
uh
a civil
sorry because
um again the la to me the last bit as I
mentioned publicly before just feels
like a bit of a stick at the end and
It's for the purpose of this document as
it's written. That's sort of not in the character of it what it's
trying to say. Um I felt like it was
just trying to add something. I wasn't
in the spirit of what this tended to do.
» Any other comments?
>> Um yes. I don't feel like that that
statement at all was a stick. It was
simply a statement that we acknowledge
that this is important and uh that there
you know that we're assuring our
residents that we take this cons we take
it seriously. Um I don't think it's
there's anything there that would
suggest that we are you know imposing
anything on anybody.
» Any other?
>> All right. So I'd like to ask for a
vote. All in favor say I. I
>> was it five?
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
And none opposed. Okay. Thank you. And
I'm glad we have done that. Okay. Um
so item number nine. Um
was that the one? Uh we could do a
consent vote and vote this in first
time. Correct, Patrick?
>> All right.
>> Correct. Um did you want to say anything
before this? I mean this is fairly
straightforward.
>> Yeah, just briefly uh to remind the
board and the public that um every so
often the state uh uh updates its
regulation of storm water discharge and
requests uh municipalities that reside
within the state to update their local
ordinance to reflect state law change.
This is exactly what is being performed
here.
>> Okay. [clears throat]
Uh we did talk about this before. This
is just as the manager said, this is a
fairly straightforward thing. We
basically have to adopt it to receive
funding and some other stuff. Um
so normally we do two reads on a change
to the ordinance. This would be the
first read. There would be a second one
in two weeks. Uh we did change the
ordinance a couple years ago to say that
we can vote on the first read if we have
a consent vote and that consent vote has
to be five. It has to be unanimous. So
do I have a motion to have a consent
vote?
>> So moved.
>> That was Graham. Do I have a second?
>> Second.
>> That was Lou. All in favor say I.
>> That's five. Okay. Now we are unable to
vote on this. Um so uh we have before us
an ordinance by the city of Aendell
states to amend chapter 11 of the code
of ordinances health and sanitation to
add new section 11-12 entitled private
decentralized wastewater systems
prohibited to article one of said
chapter for the purpose of prohibiting
certain private wastewater systems
within the city of Aenddale states in
accordance with the metropolitan north
Georgia water planning district
requirements. Do I have a motion to
approve?
>> So moved.
>> That was That was Mike. Do I have a
second?
>> Second.
>> That was Lou. All in favor say I.
>> I.
>> That's five.
>> Thank you everyone.
Okay. Now item number 10. Uh Mr.
Manager, could you?
>> Yes. So, as we discussed at the last
work session, uh before you, you have
the first of what will be two project
framework agreements with G DOT for the
purposes of receiving a federal award
um through G DOT. That award uh is for
what we are calling our downtown shared
streets project uh to provide for
multimodal improvements to our downtown
road network. uh this framework is for
the design phase of the project. You
will have another framework uh for the
construction phase. I did want to take
this time to address the comment made by
Mr. Doro during public comment. Uh that
is a legal requirement that that exhibit
F is a legal requirement from the state
of Georgia to receive federal funds via
G dot. Um, so if we uh were to not
accept that project framework agreement,
that means we could not accept uh the
grant award.
» Well, and that would be problematic
because then we would be essentially
blacklisting ourselves all future
transportation.
>> Well, each of them are voted on,
correct?
>> What's that? I mean, you're not you're
not just sort of blanket listed
>> proving.
>> No, I mean, if we if we if we do not
follow state of Georgia law, then we
would not no longer be eligible for
these awards.
>> I mean, that we don't have a choice.
>> How much is this award?
>> It's over three million.
>> Um, is this being required of all
>> Yes.
>> municipalities? every single one.
>> And also the state law that was adopted
I think two years ago uh essentially
holds that if the state concludes that a
municipality is a sanctuary city then we
will not receive any state funding
if so it's not just this project or
other projects that we would bid on
» proposed for.
What's the timeline for this particular
um
item vote
>> then? Now,
>> I I would highly advise y'all to uh
follow the state law.
I don't think we have any recourse,
positive recourse by not doing so at
all.
>> Um I've got something on another matter
with this. Um, so I see where it says
the city's responsible for accomplishing
the preliminary engineering work. Is
that part of that 100,000 or is that
additional funds?
>> So part of the grant award is for design
engineered design. Part of the grant
award is for construction.
>> Yeah.
>> This project framework agreement is
>> covers the design piece.
>> The match component throughout the
entire award is the same. It's an 8020
match component.
>> That that that wasn't what I asked or
don't think. Basically, it's saying here
and I don't know if it's kind of
separating it says that the city is
responsible for accomplishing the pre
preliminary engineering work. That's the
$500,000.
>> That's correct.
>> Okay. And then our the our part of it is
h 100,000 which the DEA is paying for.
>> Correct.
>> And what happens if we go over on that
500,000?
If if design costs cost more than that,
>> um I I I I think we would certainly have
to to to increase our contribution of
local funds. We don't anticipate that to
happen or we ask for more money and
every time that's true. Every time we
have run into that situation in the
past, G do has provided additional
funding to cover the gap.
>> All right. Thank you.
>> Okay.
So,
any other questions, comments?
» Well, I will say I appreciate Mr. Dora
for bringing this up. It's frustrating.
It's annoying that that has to be shoved
into into these grant agreements.
Um we've benefited from many grants and
as have other
organizations and municipalities. Um but
I I do appreciate the sentiment in which
it was brought up and I think it's very
frustrating.
you know, has the potential for making
it look like we're complicit when really
we're trying to because the purpose of
this multimodal
improvement is to make a, you know, two
streets be less, you know, vehicle
friendly and more pedestrian friendly.
make them, you know, where um uh make
that part of our downtown feel like you
can walk down the middle of the street
and the cars are the ones that have to
be patient and wait for you to get by or
for the kid on their bike or the person
walking their dog. So, this is all meant
to um really do something for the
healthy welfare and benefit of the
residents. Um and it has that little
thorn in it that makes you feel a little
bit icky now. So, um, you know, if I
vote to approve this, it in no way and
none of us, I believe, is is meant to
imply that we are, um, think that's a
nice way to do business with the state.
>> You're welcome. And there's a simple
solution that you'd like to hear at some
point that keeps having where you can
get the money and solve the problem.
Okay.
>> U, I have to agree with with Louie. I'm
very disappointed that that's in the in
the contract, but at the same time, you
know, we need state contracts to get
things done in this city. And u it's
just unfortunate that we have to sign on
to something that includes um you know,
something that we may not support in
order to get money to improve our city.
And I agree as well. Um
well uh
I just think this is something that's
been decided from a state level. So I
mean everybody can vote accordingly in
their state elections as well.
It's true.
All right. So uh [sighs] I have read
Well, no I haven't. Okay. So I haven't
made a motion. So, do I have a motion to
approve a project framework agreement by
and between Georgia Department of
Transportation and City of Aenddale
states for transportation facility
improvements?
>> That was Mike. Do I have a second?
>> Second.
>> That's Louis. All in favor say I.
>> I.
>> That's five.
» All right. And last item of business
this evening. Uh, Mr. manager, could you
tee this up as well?
>> Yes. Uh before you, as discussed at the
last work session is an easement
agreement with the property owner at 732
Stratford Road. Uh that typo
transposition has now been bent. Uh this
is for the purposes of uh allowing the
city to perform work on private property
to address an issue with its own storm
water system. Um and uh the property
owner has already agreed to the e the easement agreement that you have
before you and in order to complete that
agreement uh we would also need um
consideration from the
>> Thank you. Uh any questions, comments on
this one?
We did discuss this last time. Again,
this is just sort of a I wouldn't call
housekeeping but close to it. We just
need to get an easement so we can access
our storm water structure that's on
someone else's property. So, um,
questions, comments?
Okay. Do I have a motion to approve an
easement agreement between Samuel
Sundelle Grantor and the city of Aendell
States Georgia Grantee Municipal
Corporation? So, Louie, do I have a
second? Laida. All in favor say I. I.
>> That's five.
Thank you. All right. So, that concludes
our business for the evening. Uh, do I
have a motion to adjurnn?
>> So, move.
>> Do I have a second?
>> Second. That's Mike. All in favor say I.
That's five. Uh, for those of you who
haven't been to one of our meetings
before, we're going to take a 10-minute
break. Uh, we will reconvene uh down at
the table for our work session. You are
more than welcome to stay. Um,
but that's just how we're running things
now. So, 10-minute break. It is what
time you have.
>> It's 6:22. We will reconvene at 6:32.
So, thank you all.
This is our work session. It's August
26, 2026. It's now 64
34. Um, I'd like to call the meeting to
order. We have an agenda for fourth. I
have a motion to adopt. So, I was grate.
I Okay.
>> All right. First item up for discussion.
Uh item number three, continue
discussion of an amendment to the golf
cart ordinance to allow crossing from
South Avenue to Pine Street. Uh Mr.
Manager.
>> Yes. Uh so we began this discussion at
our last work session uh in order for us
to uh potentially obtain uh G dot
permission uh for a crossing to be um
instructed
uh from uh South Aenddale to Pine Street
for the purposes of golf carts traveling
across uh 278. we would have to amend
our own ordinance uh prior to receiving
that permission. Uh if y'all recall um
our discussion evolved from one where we
were then beginning to talk about some
other regulations within the golf cart
ordinance that we might want to address
uh and decided to bring that back to
work session. And so that's where we uh
remain today.
Um, and I may have been the the primary
person behind that. Um, I'm concerned
for just younger drivers,
you know, safely crossing the road and
not creating a
hazardous situation that could result in
something bad. Um,
I guess really I've been thinking about
this a bit. Uh our our our current
ordinance does allow a person who has a
Georgia driver's license to drive a golf
cart. Correct.
>> Uh I would like us to consider changing
it that to drive a golf cart. You got to
be 18.
>> Uh and that
Stephen just for purposes of moving the
discussion forward. the state allows for
local municipalities to increase the age
at which eligibility occurs,
>> right? With with 18 being as low as we
can go
>> or as high. I'm sorry. as high as
>> well. And I was talking to
>> someone after the meeting last week or
two weeks ago and was a younger person
and they put it most succinctly that
golf carts create the illusion of safety
and they are not as safe as a car. Uh
cars are rigorously tested. Uh we all
see the commercials and hear about all
that and golf carts are different. I
mean they're meant to be on a golf cart
on a golf course, you know. Um, and I
just feel like
even though the state of Georgia says a
16-year-old can drive a car on the
interstate or cross country, uh, I think
that I don't know. I just would like us
to consider upping the age for golf
drivers just perhaps there's a little
more maturity there, a little more
appreciation for
safety and what can happen and and how
thing how quickly things can go wrong
and um you know perhaps uh someone who's
been driving a car for two years can
appreciate that a little more. But I'm
just I don't want to be overly paranoid.
I just, you know, not sure that uh all
the 16 year olds out there driving golf
carts are really
sort of mindful of the hazard of driving
that they should be. So that's just
that's in a nutshell is just maybe some
consideration up in the age on that one.
>> Um
>> it's not a concern for safety. I mean
it's just not trying to penalize anyone.
I don't want to assume anyone's
>> I'm sorry.
>> Whatever. No, you didn't. I would. I I
just I just think a couple extra years
might help prevent
some driving that you do otherwise. So,
no good.
>> That's okay. I just wanted to make Are
these items that were highlighted in
yellow? Are those the only changes or
are those the exact changes that we're
making?
>> Yeah.
>> Yes. Well, in a rough draft form, I mean
once we get the more direction
>> from the board, then I will take that
rough draft and word smith it.
>> So, so we're thinking content right now
rather than exact wording. If you have
[clears throat] an exact wording, then
>> so it says here that only 18 years of
that year older may register the
vehicle. 16 can drive, right? Right.
Um
I saw somewhere where it said only 18
year olds cross the street
in the thing but it just
um just for my curiosity. I think the
fact that
you know before 270 it was the the
highway concept when when it changed to the new complete street um is it's I
thought golf carts were not allowed to
put in the speed limit.
>> That is one component. Okay. So uh and
not just the speed on 278 but also the
speed on the road connecting. So South
Aenddale. Okay. Um
that is another step in the permitting
process from G dot um to uh provide for
this crossing would be a reduction in
speed on South Aenddale Road. uh which
um would require a speed study to um
demonstrate that a reduction in speed on
that road is even uh palatable or
>> what is it now?
>> 30 correct
>> 35.
>> Oh, it's 35 on South.
» Yeah, it has to go. So any any road that
has golf motorized carts that can be no
more than 30.
>> So in order for the crossing to be made,
>> okay,
>> the speed, the highest rate of speed
permitted on South Aenddale Road has to
be reduced from 35 to 30 because of the
aforementioned dangers that uh the mayor
has spoken. So we have to go through a
study before we could lower it to 30 or
could we just lower it 30 if we
>> No, G dot has to uh allow us to reduce
the speed in order to provide for this
permit. So first step is amending the
ordinance to provide for language
allowing the crossing to be made. Next
step would be to ensure that the speed
of travel on South Aendale uh can be
lowered to accommodate the crossing. Um
and of course uh we've already taken
other steps to accommodate the crossing
such as making that intersection a
protected intersection with lights um
and a designated crossing spot. There
would also be a requirement to place
signage at the location indicating that
it is a golf cart crossing uh and that would be the only place that we
would allow for uh golf carts to cross
278. So there are several things that we
would have to do in this process. This
is just the first of those.
>> So North Aendelle is 35. South Aendelle
is the residential side
>> and it's 35 as well. I think it's
actually 30 and it needed to go to 25.
>> Yes,
» I'm okay with the crossing. It's taking
this first step. Um, and I've
considered, you know, changing the age,
but I think the bigger issue is
educating people with DOM cards. like we
can tell all day long they don't have to
be 18 but you know the police can't
really pull them over if they don't look 18 don't look 16 or whatever
so it's like and I know we can't you
know we can't uh legislate good behavior
but good you know ownership or whatever
but somehow and I know the police
department's been really trying to do
this with registering the carts having
the golf cart rodeos and things like
that somehow we have to figure out a way
to reach every golf card on her and you
know
they'll you know really figure out how
to educate them on what you're supposed
to do with these things that they're not
as safe as car that they're not as uh
carefree as people think they are. So I
mean it's like
but you know the crossing I think the
road this was part of our plan to begin
with think people with golf cars will
welcome us I want to bring some activity
between two sides of the road which I'm
always looking to do um with crossing I
don't have any issue with uh I think you
know I think it needs to be done
absolutely the G9 specifications I guess
25 is fine. Feel like most of us in the
city 25 already. So
um and I think I think just you know
somehow
figuring out how to
teach our teach I don't know what the
right word is but educate our golf
that you know there are laws and you
have to follow these laws. It's not okay
to just
>> And do you mind if I elaborate on
something? Sure. uh speaking to your
point about um recognizing age.
>> Um so
in order for for the police to um
stop a golf cart user or engage a golf
cart user in the course of them using
the cart. uh there there would have to
be a moving violation in order to make
that engagement. So um we can't just
profile uh I just wanted to clarify that
for you guys. So um
>> so if someone was like noticeably like
10
[laughter]
like
>> unfortunately no.
>> Okay.
>> Unfortunately in this time and age you
have 12 year olds that look like they're
21 and you have 20 year olds that look
like they're 12.
>> Yeah. and and can't go off of solely
like I think Patrick said it we're
profiling at that point which is highly
illegal. We have to have probable cause
or reasonable article suspicion and
profiling does not fall into the
reasonable article suspicion. Uh it
would have to be a violation
come out to legal interaction.
>> Probably not going to catch speed.
» But they do people do run stop sign.
>> No, that would be a moving violation
that would that would allow for a stop.
I I I for one I think um
I initially I'm I would not be in favor
of raising the the age. I just I think
golf carts are part of this neighborhood
and I think I'm more concerned about the
ebikes and how fast they go. There's
kids that are eight, nine
years old that are going 40 miles an
hour and like these I mean the carts I
mean if we can restrict it to a safe
crossing I think think that's something that um
you know there's always inherent risk
with with everything pedestrians even
but I think
I don't know I would I would not be in favor of of
race
16
they can drive a car drive a
» um now with when they register now do
they get a decal or something to put on
their vehicle and are we having problems
with people registering I mean or do we
>> actually with well we've um
>> we we've been able to capture a lot of
unregistered golf carts the previous two
years with our golf cart registration
drives
Uh so that is less of an issue than it
was previously and we'll continue to do
that. Um so that we don't have
unregistered vehicles on our streets. Um
now an unregistered cart and I'll defer
to Chief Hess on this uh would
potentially be a moving violation
>> potentially. Potentially yes. The um
only concern with that is we've kind of
come up with consistent place to put
said sticker the last two years.
Previous administration, previous wave
stickers were put on were all over the
place. And with the aging stickers,
we're finding uh more and more residents
have reached out to Detective Powrill
about getting a new sticker because
their old sticker is falling apart or
fallen off or weathered. um she is
working with those residents as a a case
by case basis. So um we can more than
likely yes we see a golf cart moving and
we can stop and make contact.
>> Can you state where the preferred spot
was? Uh but moving forward it's going to
be the driver side rear like quarter
panel uh either right of on either front
or rear because the golf carts nowadays
they've got like basically no fender to
the rear. Some of them do, some of them
don't. So we've putting them on that
driver side rear tire fender area.
Well, I don't know if I have any trouble
with um the 18y old requirement because
I wish they changed that with driver's
license.
My granddaughter is going to be 16 next
June and I'm horrified.
The thought of her driving around in
Atlanta.
Well, crossing is the part that I'm uh
most
looking forward to and the fact that
we've got, you know, new residences,
single family residences, etc. being
built on this side. Um, it it it's a way
to promote connectivity. It's a way to
promote sort of ease. I mean, there is
definitely something nice about putting
children in a golf cart, driving to
their school, dropping them off. that I
mean that's a lovely thing and you don't
get to do that in many places and um I
would hate to have some people have the
ability to do that and others not. Now I
know that still exists and know there's
other parts that can't do that but at
least there is a part here that will
hopefully will it will
and just to be clear I'm all for the
crossing. I think it's great and I think
it'll be just an expansion of that
specialness that you know we enjoy. I'm
all for that. I'm just, you know,
as I said before, I was not the most
careful 16-year-old driver. So,
um, yeah.
Well, okay. So, we're all okay with the
crossing itself.
>> Is there any appetite for open age?
>> Straw both.
>> You're not.
>> It don't matter either way.
>> And you can drive a car.
>> Okay. All right. So, we'll drop that.
So, what's next?
>> So, based on that direction, the only
amendment that we will propose to you
guys via ordinance is for the crossing.
Um, so that will be brought forward to
you at the next regular meeting for um
first street,
>> right? For street.
>> Okay. And I'll say one more time like I
think that that doing this I think will
be good opportunity to teach people just
number one where that crossing's going
to be. It's not every crossing, you
know.
>> Well, I think there's going to be signs.
>> Yeah. I think the important thing though
is you cross, you don't get on. Yeah.
Exactly.
>> And that's going to be
>> that's not going to be I mean that's
always going to be
>> not allowed.
>> Correct.
>> Yeah.
No travel on on the highway.
» Uh curious. I know we have, you know,
that that this is discussion about
crossing on that side, but I mean, is
there even access to the downtown area
from like say the other side
>> without a hill like?
>> You mean here down here?
>> Yeah.
>> For a golf cart?
>> No. Because it's not protected with
>> signaling.
Yeah.
>> Is there a theoretical possibility that
when that rest of the
>> road from here to Kensington Station
gets upgraded that whatever could occur
theoretically if there was a will to
make it to
>> I don't want to weigh in Ellen that uh
without good information. Um so uh I
I'll try and seek that information for
you guys but uh I don't have it right
now. when you dropped, would you be able
to drive around this neighborhood back
here?
>> Yes. Yeah. So, once you get if you would
cross like so if you cross 278 down
there,
>> right,
>> and that would allow for you to drive
your golf cart on any of the the the
interior roads here. So, theoretically,
um I you know,
>> but you couldn't cross at Laredo.
>> You mean like cross Clarendon? cross
Laredo or Clarendon.
>> You have to cross Laredo to get over
here.
>> I mean, you you Yes. Well, you'd have to
cross Clarendon.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> But there's Right. Right.
>> But you can go right into Laredo, too,
off where Center Street curves.
>> Well, you can already do that.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, I'm saying if you wanted to get
from
the area
across Clarendon over to this side.
Okay.
>> I I you know I don't have a a good
knowledge of the the allowance for
crossing clarity.
We really haven't discussed that. But
you can tell that declaration drive over
those.
>> Yeah. I think
>> this intersection was here 278
>> right
>> way too high too much traffic. I mean
there are lots of constraints around
that that intersection did not
» so we'll we'll have those discussions
and talk about declaring the cross if
that's even
possible. So you may it it could be that
you are limited to staying on the west
side of Clarendon u in the downtown of
course unless you own a home on the east
side of Clarendon and you're not
crossing over Clarendon.
>> Yeah, that that was kind of my like the
residents that I live I mean
>> just some I just it crossed my mind
>> pocket over here.
>> Yeah. And and then the people that live
over by the like that are in Ael tracks.
>> Yeah. Where the town homes are
>> town homes. And then isn't there another
part of Aenddale that like
where the the elementary school
>> that's actually well AES right down
there
>> or are you talking about the
>> DSA elementary school? Is that part of a
city? That is not
>> That is not but there are there is a
pocket of homes back there the Windsor
area.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> I just want to make sure B if we're
looking down the road maybe providing
access. Currently, we do not have
any provision
unless it's otherwise already legal for
persons who live
uh on the north side of 278 east of
Clarendon to cross Clarendon over into
the west side
uh of the downtown. Okay.
All right. So, uh, again, first read
will be at the
» what's the what's the date?
>> September 9th.
>> At the September 9th meeting.
Good. All right. Next item. Uh, item
number four. review an easement
agreement with Maple 278 Ventures for
temporary construction staging and
landscaping in the alley at 102 Olive
Street.
>> Yes. So, as we've encountered in the
past, uh there is a series of alleys
um that exist in the downtown. Some of
those are actually private, some of
those are publicly owned. Uh the Aba
Hedgewood team has identified a small
portion of the alley
uh that was immediately to the north of
one of the properties they purchased uh
which we refer to as the Roric property.
It's that vacant corner property uh as
an alley that uh they would like to be
able to use for two purposes. Uh one is
uh during their construction to be able
to use that alleyway to transport
materials and then the other uh is to
once they have completed construction to
be able to nicely landscape that
alleyway in order to um create an an
inviting uh area. Um, now, uh, that
alleyway is really small. Um,
if y'all are familiar with that lot.
>> Where is it?
>> So, that lot is on the corner of Olive
in 278.
>> So, it's on the west corner of Olive.
Uh, it was a just kind of a tiny
property.
>> Is it next to um
>> We have a canal in the pack.
>> Oh,
>> yeah.
It was in
>> which
work
>> number
right next to
» you little cottages down there.
>> That's what I was
>> right. It's It's immediately south of
the building known as 120 Olive that
houses Little Cottage.
>> Okay.
» There's an alley there.
>> They're not developed alleys. Uh they
are just identified as alleys. And um uh
again um we we check these on a
case-byase basis as development concerns
arise because what we found is there's
no real consistency of ownership. Some
of those alleyways go with the deed to
the private property. Some of those
alleyways are excluded from the deed and
are public.
>> On in this case have
the people that own that building been
told about it? They don't have any
ownership of that.
>> I know they don't, but I mean, as far as
that it will be used that way, just, you
know, informing them of
>> I I don't I don't know the answer to
that question.
I mean, I I doubt they would care given
the fact that uh if the whole entire
property was utilized as a um uh for
construction easement on 278. If y'all
recall, we had some some lay down of
that property. Uh I don't think it
affects their ingress and egress
and the alley exists on the Avalon
property. It's just a public portion of
that property. So the adjacent neighbor
doesn't have any
right.
>> I understand. I was just talking about,
you know, them being aware that it's
going to happen.
» Um,
» so
any other questions or so this be
something we vote on September 9th,
>> correct?
>> Am I okay with that?
>> Okay. Item number five, presentation by
Chief Hess. But like to start over here
with Mr. managers.
>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, um we're
making this presentation to the board
tonight uh mostly because of increased
discussion about uh flock safety company
uh not only locally but at the national
level. Uh and I think we've all we've
all had internal conversations about our
use of flock safety equipment.
um and realize there are very valid
concerns about uh potential abuse of the
system that uh you know not only our
residents have but persons throughout
the country. Um and uh not only that but
um you know as most large topics of
discussion
uh result in there is you know some
misinformation we've identified in in
discussions that perhaps we could speak
to to to clarify
um what type of equipment we have and
what we use it for. Um, I realize that may not matter to some folks. Um,
and again, I I I
uh very much empathize with the the
concern about flock safety and the
products that they provide. I think we
are very aware of um, you know, some of
the
very real pitfalls of the system. Um but
uh for the purposes of um you know
encouraging further discussion and
inviting our residents to participate in
that discussion, we felt it appropriate
at this time to go ahead and have a
chief hes make a presentation about uh
ADAL state's flock safety program so
that we can um you know help move that
discussion um in whatever way it
evolves. So, um, without further ado,
I'll hand it over to the Chief Hess and
he can walk us through the Aenddale
Estates's block safety approach.
>> All right. So, good evening. Um, like to
reiterate what Patrick said is, you
know, [clears throat] I've heard
residents, I've heard concerns, and
hopefully, you know, I can't control how
you feel, but I think education plays a
big factor. Um and you know so basically
what we're going to do is go over basic
background of flock safety corporation
the technology and the policies that I
have adopted for the Aenddale state's
police department. Please keep in mind
that when I'm speaking about policies
and how we use the system I am only
speaking about how Aenddale's police
department utilizes this system and how
it benefits our city. I cannot speak to
other agencies. I cannot speak to other
administrators or their policies in any
way, shape, or form. And law enforcement
policies are not cookie cutter by any
means whatsoever. Um, and I've got
experience with that. So hopefully uh I
can educate y'all a little bit and uh
answer some questions. See if this
works. It does. All right. So, Block
Safety is a public safety technology uh
platform that helps a law enforcement
investigate crimes by providing
information captured on their devices
associated with incidents. Um,
moving forward, Flock offers, and if you
guys don't mind, I'm just going to refer
to as Flock instead of Flock Safety.
Moving forward, they offer um several
different options. And to clarify what
we use, uh the first is the license
plate readers are often referred to as
automated license plate readers or
ALPRs. We use this system. We also use
the software behind the ALPR system and
that is it. Do not use their mobile
security trailers. We do not use their
gunshot or gunshot detection software or
devices. We do not use their drones and
we do not use their pan, tilt, zoom, or
CCTV camera systems in any way, shape or
form. Uh we do not subscribe to any of
the extra software that would have to be
enabled to be able to use this system,
nor do we have any of their devices
other than the ALPR systems.
The plot falcon ALPR is the only device
that we use as I stated previously.
Basically, an ALPR camera captures f
photos of the rear of a vehicle, their
license plates, records the location,
date, time uh the photo was taken.
Vehicle license plate is listed as
stolen, linked to other criminal
activities. wanted or and wanted or
missing persons. An alert will be sent
out to ALPD a staff who are logged in
via the software via a desktop software
or a mobile application.
So, common concerns and questions that
are uh I've heard recently, you know,
what does ALPR detect? It detects
vehicles and license plates. Does not
detect people. It does not record
people. Uh, it's only vehicles and
license plates. What does it not detect?
Once again, people, gender, race, or fa
any type of facial recognition software
built into our system. How many ALPRs do
we have? We currently have 10. And we
have 10 cameras in 10 separate
locations. We do not have any cameras
that are multiple cameras on at one
location. Just to clarify because I know
uh some people have asked me about that.
Um, our 10 cameras are in 10 different
locations spread out through the city.
The data retention is 30 days on a
rolling basis. What that means is that
it's not at the end of the month all the
data. So once 30-day hits on that date
and time, that data is permanently
erased, which I'll get kind of more into
here in a minute. Okay.
Uh, federal sharing and safeguards flock
does not contract with federal agencies
such as ICE or DHS. And I'll go a little
bit more into data sharing in a few
minutes too. Data resale flock does not
sell LPR data privately. [clears throat]
And uh the flock alpr systems are not
connected to DDS or DMV softwares.
They're all connected through portals
for GCIC and NCIC which is Georgia
Criminal Information Center as well as
the National Criminal Information
Center.
So, when we're talking about the data,
what kind of data is collected by the
ALPR? It's a license plate text. Oh,
sorry, I forgot the head. That's my
fault. Um, it's a license plate text.
It's the date and time the image was
captured or when the vehicle passed that
camera, hammer location uh that captured
the image and basic vehicle attributes
such as make, model, and color. That is
all Eclipse
um tracking a vehicle block does not
have the capabilities to physically
track a vehicle. Uh the A alpr system
does not track vehicle. It's a moment in
time at a specific location. So your
vehicle passes a fixed location. It
captures the image. It doesn't know if
you went up to the next street and turn
right, left. The only way we can see
that is it when you pass the next block
camera. If you pass another block
camera, it cannot detect after that
image. It does not detect if you turn
down the next street, went three streets
forward or turn left or right. It only
is capturing, think about it as a moment
in time, like I stated, one location
with a date and a time. That is it.
Once you pass the camera, AED and Flock,
uh, have no idea what your route is. U,
I'm going to use this as an example. We
had an incident earlier this week where,
uh, after the crime occurred, the
vehicle fled the location, did not pass
a single one of our flock cameras,
did not hit a single flot camera
throughout Ticap County.
It only hit a camera in uh, 8 bill.
And that's where we're able to kind of
bring the case to a closure, so to
speak. So to give you an example, from
here to Hateville is approximately 15 20
miles. Did not fast pass a single flat
camera from Aenddale states until it hit
a camera in the hate bill.
So I know the news has been reporting on
Senator John Albert's uh task force
lately. Uh I want to bring that up. he's
uh to increase a oversight with ALPRs.
Um the partners, which I think is very
important to be aware of, is the Georgia
Sheriff's Association as well as the
Georgia Association of Chiefs of Police,
which I'm currently the third vice
president of. Because of that, I will be
heavily involved with the Senator
Albert's task force moving forward. We
actually have meetings scheduled
um and I will be attending those
meetings. So the idea is to figure out
what if any oversight needs to be
legislated
um best practices, sample policies for
law enforcement agencies throughout the
state. Those are just some of the things
that we are specifically looking at and
addressing some of the currents coming
from our legislators at the capital as
well to uh specifically address those in
the state of Georgia. So that will be
more to come as time goes on.
So again, I want to reiterate the policy
for [clears throat] Aenddale State
Police Department is only our policy. I
cannot control or dictate other agency
policies in any way, shape or form. Uh
pulling out of our ALPR policy. I just
wanted to highlight some things. Uh
considering operation is used for
official law enforcement business only.
Officers must complete training on the
system and pol and review the policy and
training on the policy prior to being
issued any type of credentials
to utilize the block ALBR system. Uh the
data retention is specifically mentioned
in our policy with a 30-day rolling
basis.
uh after 30 days. It's important to know
that once it's deleted, it cannot be
recovered for any reason what whatsoever
by my by any of my staff, my agency,
another agency, or the vendor
themselves. It is completely hard wiped
from the system. So that 30 days
expires, if we get information on day 31
that a vehicle may have hit one of our
cameras and it's day 31, we can't even
search. It's not going to give us any
information on that regardless of what
it's involved in. It could be a
homicide. There's no way for me to pull
that stuff out. Uh accountability. I
think this is uh very important and I
want to highlight something. Uh Deputy
Chief Branch actually leads this on a
weekly basis. We conduct audits of our
officers and how they're using the
system. And I want to get into the audit
basis uh uh factors in a minute. Um, and
also important to note that our they're
single user login. They're specific to
one user and they're
multi-authentification
login. So, um, if an employee leaves on
their last day, we take them out of the
system. If if if loginins are appearing
on the web, they maybe more than likely
are not good login. can't confirm or
deny that, but it's up to the agency and
the administrators to ensure that if an
employee is no longer an employee, they
should not have access to it. And we do
that as employees leave. Luckily, we
haven't had to deal with any employees
legally. So,
all right. So, we have adopted a three
tier search access for the city of
Aenddale States Police Department on
tier one. Um,
I'm behind here again. I'm sorry. Tier
one is absolutely no search access with
the within the database. That includes
our line level officers which account
for six of our staff. Myself and deputy
chief branch do not have searchability
factor. The reason why we do not is
deputy chief branch and myself are over
the audits and for transparency reasons.
How are we supposed to officially and
truthfully audit ourselves if we have
search bill?
We don't need it at our level and we're
conducting audits. So, we've removed
oursel from being able to search flock
for any reason. On tier two, it's in
state of Georgia searches only. Those
are assigned to our four patrol
sergeants that run a shift, our four
shifts within the uh police department.
And then tier three is a full search
access which only our two detectives uh
the sergeant inc as well as our one
detective have full access to that which
again they they're logged and audited on
a weekly basis.
So some additional state cards. I want
to reiterate that our staff receives
training on the system. uh they receive
uh electronic training uh web training
as well as when they're in their field
training program they are given uh real
world training by their field training
officers and they're also trained on the
policies. Additionally, the policies are
electronically acknowledged and logged
for accountability. So the officer says
they've read the policy, they understand
the policy, they can't come back and
say, "I didn't know I couldn't do that."
Um, so that's another level of safeguard
when conducting searches within the
system. Any of our staff that has search
capabilities are required to put in the
case or CAD number. A CAD number is
generated by Dicap County E911. You call
911, they're dispatching a call. It's
given a CAD number. Not every call
generates a report.
So sometimes a CAD number can be used um
instead of a case number, the criminal
offense being investigated. It also logs
the date, the time, the officer's name,
what type of device they were on, and
that all pulls up in our audit logs as
we do those weekly audits as well.
>> And they can't search anything about
case I
>> Yeah, they have to have a case or a cat
number. Let me Some people may ask why
would we search without a case number?
Uh prime example um is uh Dicab County.
Just an example, DIC County PD puts out
a be on the lookout on a stolen vehicle
that was last seen in the area memorial
and coming to the highway. Okay. Because
of the proximity, the officer may want
to search and make sure that that didn't
they didn't get a delayed hit or maybe
ensure that it's not coming in the city.
They can put the CAD number which then
deputy chief because we didn't generate
a case or case report. They can put the
CAD number in
>> that they get from the cab county
because it's the cab county call that
we're assisting on. Um similarly a
missing person vehicle be broadcast. A
lot of times an Amber alert or a
Mattiey's call gets put out. There's a
vehicle associated with it. Our officers
may log in, put a reference and search
and see where if it's been hidden up in
our area, if they have reason to do
that,
kind of dig into the audit process and
what we look at. We look at the
frequency a staff an individual staff
member runs number. Additionally, we
look at the frequency a tag number is
run by all staff. That may be a red flag
also.
Ensure vehicle that is associated with
to we also ensure the vehicle associated
with the case or pad number that we are
conducting the audit on. Ensure the
criminal offense is being investigated
is logged and confirm the vehicle is
linked to the case or pad. Um, we have
seen
we have had to dig into some um things
that kind of raised our spidey senses,
but they were directly correlated to
uh a report, a case, a CAD number, which
was completely justified by
investigation. One example is that was
uh one of our tags off of one of our
Mark patrol cars was stolen two months
ago. Well, that tag number showed
multiple entries by multiple officers
over multiple days because what they
were doing was when they would come into
shift, they would log in because we want
to try to find where how and why the
government tag was stolen. Can't tell
you why. Doesn't make sense. But every
that audit came up as a red flag for us
because we were seeing the government
tag being run by multiple staff members
multiple times by each member because
what they were doing was they were
logging in and they were running that
tag when they started their shift to see
if it popped up on any of the flock
cameras in our area to make sure it
wasn't being used on a fraudulent
vehicle or anything like that.
» Let's see.
So, an alert, I mentioned alerts earlier
where if a tag, whatever it may be, um
actually alerts one of our staff
members. I want to stress the importance
of this because this is also um
it may cover some of the concerns of
officers taking action that the
information was wrong. Um our staff the
information sets an officer being alert
includes a photo of the rear of the
vehicle, license plate, the location,
date and time stamps. An alert tone,
this is important. Alert alone is not
reasonable suspicion to stop a vehicle.
We have to take that alert one couple
steps further. Our officers must
visually verify the plate and the
vehicle from the alert is correct. Um, I
think someone may have brought it up
earlier. Um, uh, an eight may come up as
a B in flock.
Well, that that means that that stolen
vehicle is not that tag. They have to
visually verify that tag, confirm that tag matches the alert. In addition
to that, the officers must verify the
hit via their incar computer andor cab
county dispatch. So what that means is
stolen license plate coming through our
city. ABC123
alert
officer deputy chief branch gets behind
it. He can't just turn on his blue
lights. He's going to get on his radio
county e 911 and tell him run this tag.
I'm getting a flock alert for a stolen
vehicle ABC123.
Give it a minute or two. Decap county
police is going to come back and say
that is confirmed. It is a stolen
vehicle. Now we have articulable
reasonable probable cause to conduct a
traffic stop on that vehicle or which
has happened negative that vehicle is
not stolen. Guess what? We don't do
anything. So there multi levels that we
require our officers and our staff to do
before taking actions. The alert alone
is not enough reason to take law
enforcement action. We need to visually
verify, confirm the alert as being
active and valid. And that's the most
important thing because a stolen vehicle
may have been recovered and for whatever
reason it hasn't hit updated in the
flock system. So we want real-time
information to confirm everything.
Moving on to some of the data concerns.
Freedom of information act captured
license plate data by law enforcement
agencies shall not be subject to public
disclosure. That's in Georgia law 35122
subsection F. That 35122 addresses all
license plate data, ALPRS, LPR data for
Georgia law. Captured license plate data
means global positioning, device
coordinates, date, time, photograph,
license plate number, any other data
captured or derived from the automatic
license recognition system or any way or
any other source. That's 35122
subsection A2. That's important to know
because basically that says anything
coming out of the flock system is not
subject to open records.
>> We do not release ALPR data under
Freedom of Information Act or Open
Records Act. So we we don't whatever
that flock system is capturing. We get a
request for that. We will not release it
to the public in any way, shape or form.
nor would we release it to an agency
that is not a subscriber to Flock for
any reason. But what that means is that
jump back to what I was saying that PL
does not contract with federal agencies.
Okay,
getting a little bit deeper in the data.
Uh once again, I really think I I want
to hammer this home that the data is
only retained for 30 days on a rolling
basis. Once it's gone, it's gone. It's
gone forever. After 30 days, no one can
retrieve it to include my agency, my
staff, block, or any other agency that
may have access to the debt.
This information can be accessed by law
enforcement for law enforcement. I put
parentheses investigative purp purposes
only. That is what's getting officers in
trouble, not law enforcement purposes.
agency sharing. I will admit we Sorry.
Go ahead. Go ahead.
>> Um, you have to put a case number in.
Yes. So, if you don't put a case number
in,
>> it won't even let you search.
>> Okay.
>> We've added that within our system in
the search parameters, we require it.
So, thus, you have to put something up.
So, even if one of my staff wanted to
say, I'll just put make up a case number
or whatever, that's going to be a red
flag in RV. This is not going to
correlate with anything we have.
>> But do you have um a so the cab when
they send their alert they would send
you their case number or CAD number?
>> We Yeah, we would do the CAD number. If the CAB was passing along information
that someone was seen in our
jurisdiction, headed to our
jurisdiction, maybe have reason to
believe that an endangered person or
Mattiey's or Amber call was coming
towards our jurisdiction. Obviously, if
we have that CAD number, we want to stay
on top of it and see where it is, if
it's hitting on any camera. And going
back to that previous example, you can
get from Aenddale to Hayville, not hit a
single flock camera. Um, but yeah, they
would have to enter something.
the agency sharing uh within the flock
system. Law enforcement agencies that
are contracted under flock can request
and grant access to other agencies to
share our data. And by data, what I mean
is the searchability of a vehicle,
location, a time, and a date. Um all
requests have to be approved by myself
and solid. So, uh we do share it with
local agencies. We do share it with
agencies throughout the US, but there's
reason for it and
it it's successful. It really is.
» So you actually give them a access to
search our data
>> within reason. I have capabilities to
restrict
hot list. I can have capabilities to do
search only. I have capabilities.
Generally agencies when we share our
data it is searchability only um and
that's because again we got the hit from
hateville we share our system with
hateful PD going back to the incident
from earlier this week shared
reciprocates that shares it with us um
and we were able to get that tag is it
turned off or terminated
so they always have access until I go in
and physically remove
Do you
>> do I
>> physically remove after you?
>> No, I have not had a case where I needed
to I felt like it needed to be removed
and and and going back to and we'll get
into some success stories here in just a
second. Um
the the sharing is reciprocated
and I can only control my staff. Um,
I understand some of the concerns that
come along with that. Um, but you start
cutting off partners because of one
person. I I think it's more detrimental
to the investigative tool that it
actually has to offer to us, which has
paid huge dividends for our city. Um,
and obviously being a smaller city, I've
been able to get more involved in this,
and that's what I want to be is more
involved with with our policy decisions
and how we're operating and everything
else. Um, you know, if a circumstance
did arise, obviously, I would consider
it. I would take action if I felt like
it needed to be. Uh, currently, I just
kind of [clears throat]
>> So, would you get grant that access to
one user or the whole agency? It's the
agency and then the agency then has the
ability to restrict
what their staff or who similar to my
tier three tiers.
>> So we can share it but my line level
officers and deputy chief branch and I
cannot search
Georgia. We cannot search anywhere. We
can't even search our own campus. Um, so
in a lot of agencies, I I have a feeling
the discussion within law enforcement is
looking at the restriction, who has the
rights to search and what do those
rights look like? And and you know, we I
feel like we kind of got ahead of the
curve and teared it off into that. And I
think I had the reason to do it and it
makes sense for us.
» Let's see where we at. All right. So,
the contract with plot uh signed January
2024,
multi-year contract to provide 10 of the
Falcons automated license plate readers.
Uh the cameras were placed along Highway
278 within the residential area and
along surface streets. Um basically the
idea was to
strategically place them where I can get
see who's coming into the city. My
concern are the criminal activities, the
individuals that are, you know, that we
would get alert from naturally that the
vehicle is associated with a crime
already stolen wanted individuals coming
into the city that obviously I want to
protect our citizens. That's the whole
idea. So, most of the cameras are coming
into the city along uh 278 with I
believe it was two of the residential
areas and one on the uh north side of
278.
Last but not the least, um
not trying to sell anyone on anything,
but I think it's very important to hit
where these were
the the cameras provided us resources
that we were able to close some cases
that if we didn't have it, there's no
those cases would be sitting in limbo
right now. Victims would be not have
closure or anything else. Uh to me the
big two in two things are the first two
we had two um residents of Aendale
states with diminished uh mental
capacity were reported missing on two
separate incidents two separate people
um one was located in Dawsonville
Georgia because of flock uh we share our
cameras with Dawsonville as soon as the
person was met reported missing use
block search for that tag and that
vehicle they were last seen in it was it
all up 75 into Dawsonville. Dawsonville,
uh we were able to locate with the
sheriff's department and return that
resident's home safely. Uh one that was
a little bit more recent, uh an
individual had been not seen for about a
week or two. A resident called in. Um
the vehicle was located in a small town
in North Carolina. Additionally, the
resident was found wandering in the
woods on the brink of hyperotherm
block. You know, I'm not saying I'm not
gonna say the what if game because
there's no way to predict the future,
but that one really hit home because we
located the vehicle. The deputies set
out a search area up in North Carolina
and found this individual wandering in
the woods. What would have happened if
12, 24, 48 hours would have passed? You
just don't know. Um we had a robbery
where all we had was a color make a
model of a vehicle. We were able to
locate that vehicle uh in East Point and
additionally that we were able to
identify the suspects make an arrest and
those suspects were tied to additional
robberies in East Point, Atlanta and
South
entering auto suspects um and attempted
entering auto suspects. These are u
numerous for us where if we get only
have a description of a vehicle or a
neighbor's ring camera that doesn't
capture the tag but gets me a yellow
Chevy Camaro. [clears throat] Plug that
in there, start doing our searches. This
is detectives doing these searches. Sure
enough, that vehicle hit. Uh recently we
were able to identify a vehicle within
24 hours with assistance with the cab
over on Colombia. stop the vehicle,
arrest the suspect, and decapitate them
to almost 50 or 60 additional entering
autos the night they hit two of our
residents. So, reoccurring criminal
activity and then theft damage to
property where the ring camera of the
resident,
you know, captured the vehicle again,
make model, were able to track them
down, affect an arrest in a short amount
of time to where that individual
couldn't come back and or the victim had
closure, so on so forth. These are just
a few. Um,
I could go on and on for hours with some
of the success stories that we've had
because of Flock. And these are success
stories that it's not taken away from
the boots on the ground where the
detectives doing the investigative work.
They're still using the doing the
investigative work. still have to go in
front of a judge. But this is a tool
that they're now using that we're able
to link criminal activity across
jurisdictional boundaries, solve cases
and fractions of times without this in
without this system could potentially
limbo for years with no workable leads.
But again,
» um, okay. So, now that we've we've
learned about the program itself, I
wanted to talk about the contract just
briefly. Uh, the way it worked was that
um,
we entered into essentially a 4-year
contract with Flock Safety with an opt
out after two years, which we chose not
to do because of its success. Um,
the way it works is you're essentially
leasing the equipment. So, we have 10
cameras. [clears throat]
To lease each one of those cameras over
a year's period is $3,000
>> per camera.
Correct. So, it's a $30,000
um lease deal a year. U we our contract
expires in 2028, the first quarter of
2028.
Uh so that would be our opportunity to
um either continue to lease the product
and enter into a new contract or to
remove the product without penalty.
Now I have noticed um just reading news
stories from across the country uh that
cities are terminating the contract
during the contract period. Um, and some
of those cities are paying the remainder
of the contract and some of those cities
are arguing breach a contract in order
to not pay the remaining uh uh value of
that contract. Um, I can't speak to
um
whether or not we would be potentially
successful in
um removing ourselves from the financial
burden if we were to terminate that
contract early.
uh depends on you know
what that decision would look like what
we would what the discussions with flock
itself would be whether we take legal
action or anything like that. Um so
essentially uh we go ahead and pay for
that
annual lease rate early in the year. So,
from a financial standpoint, we are
currently 3/4s of the way done with the
contract. Um, so, uh, let's just say you
decided that you no longer want to be
associated with Flock and you wanted to
terminate that contract effective
immediately. If we weren't able to reach
an agreement with Flock or take
successful legal action, we would owe
$30,000
um, to fulfill the terms of that
contract.
um plus lose the back third of the value
that we've already spent for um
you know the contract to date this year.
Uh now we are we did not bring this to
you in order to necessarily engage in a
discussion about whether or not to
continue the use of the block safety
program. We didn't want to necessarily
make that assumption. We just wanted to
start the conversation by informing you
and the general public how we use the
program. Uh and really to also make it
very clear that we
very much understand the concerns of the
general public, any concerns you may
have and the potential pitfalls that are
associated with the product. Like Chief
has said um there is no way currently
uh to address how another agency or the
members of that agency would use the
product if we allowed them to access the
product if they are a block subscribing
agency. Um those are some of the things
that uh Chief Hess will be involved in
discussing
uh with Senator Alers and the potential
formation of this task force in order to
provide
um you know a regulatory framework that
has you know teeth to it. Um we're not
there yet. I do believe there's a
meeting tomorrow to begin that
discussion. Correct. Um
so uh
that's where we stand contractually.
Uh
obviously I think you know if if a
regulatory framework existed to uh
remove the concerns that we in fact have
about other abuse by other potential
agencies who subscribe. Uh that would
allay a lot of our concerns. Um however
we're, you know, to to be candid, we're
not there yet. Um and you have seen uh
localized abuse. I mean uh Chief S uh um
we we we discussed the you know the CAP
had had to place multiple officers on
leave for unauthorized searches. Um you
know this happens in other
jurisdictions. Uh it hasn't happened
here. Uh, of course, the way we we try
and guard against that is with our
weekly audit program. Uh, knowing that,
you know, uh, if somebody were to violate,
uh, the policy that we have in place and
that they have signed to adhere to that,
they would be subject to serious
disciplinary action. Um so uh that is
the proactive approach we're taking. We
realize we can't ensure other agencies
are taking that proactive approach.
That's why we are participating in
creating a regulatory framework to
ensure that happens um at least across
the state of Georgia. Um but uh you know
like uh a resident stated earlier this
technology is still very new. Um, you
know, our use of it is new. A lot of use
by other cities, not only in Dicab
County, but the state of Georgia and
nationwide are new. Um, so, you know, it
we are unfortunately in a kind of learn
as you go process from a legal
standpoint about how we address some of
these concerns. But um that being said
uh I think it is important for us to
continue having this discussion with the
public, having this discussion amongst
ourselves. um to weigh uh you know the pros versus the cons. uh to
understand, you know, um
you know, what value we want to place on
uh being able to close cases and make
arrests that we wouldn't otherwise be
able to with the use of the system
versus, you know, potential, you know,
privacy value lost by uh residents who
live here. So, I think that's the
conversation. uh we're very much open to
it and um you know want to be as
transparent as humanly possible uh with our residents and you know visitors
to this city you know not not just our
residents are affected um it's anyone
who travels through here really it's
anyone who travels through Dicap County
because um if you'll recall and I think
uh Graham and Mike have just joined the
council when we began considering this
um was that uh you know we at that time
we actually existed as a whole in the
system where um you know other law
enforcement agencies around us already
had the system installed. We didn't. So
there was kind of a loss of
investigative capability as vehicles
entered and exited uh at states. So um
that's why we brought this to you all
tonight. We want to, you know, make sure
that the public understands that we get
where a lot of their concerns are coming
from. We want to be, we want to have an
open, honest discussion about it. Um,
that's led us to this point.
>> Uh, you said it's 3K per camera. Do we
have any software maintenance expense or
data storage?
>> So, we had a no a contract. We had an
installation expense when we first
contracted the equipment, but the
entirety of the program is built into
each camera.
>> So, $3,000 per camera includes the use
of the software in order to,
you know, execute searches for
>> okay,
>> the data.
>> Um, so am I understanding that this is
not video, this is like it's taking
pictures.
>> They are snapshots in time. So, so, uh,
like Chief Bev said, um, they are
location, date, and time specific and
stamped to that effect. Um, and, uh, the
cameras that we have, and of course they
block offers different products, but the
cameras that we have takes pictures of
the rear of vehicles only.
>> And we have a specific vendor that we
work through or
>> it's Flock.
>> It is Flock.
>> Yeah. Flock. This is their product.
Okay. Um, just one last question. Sure.
Uh, how many agencies would you say have
access to our system?
» I was just looking at it yesterday. Um,
I think we're at
most and I will let me just preface
this. Most of them are in the southeast.
Um, mostly Georgia. I would say probably
80 plus percent are shared access in
Georgia. We do have uh several in
Florida. Uh we do have Alabama, North,
South Carolina, Tennessee, Southeast
mainly. Um I feel like the the ones that
are outliers, we had a case that kind of
went up to Maryland, so we added the
states between Georgia and Maryland. Uh
we had a case that went out to Arizona.
So we started adding and reciprocating
those out to Arizona. So you know I
review every one of them. Matter of
fact, I had three this morning and all
three were from Georgia that just
actually came on board with Flock that
are fairly close like
>> the access is case specific though,
right? They don't have blanket access,
right?
>> No, they they would have to they would
have to do the search data input to be
able to search our campus. And when you
do that, you can do your cameras, you
can do within 50 miles, you could do
state of Georgia. So you, you know, when
you're searching, we limit our searches
to what do we need? You know, we're not
going to search New York City just to
search New York City. get out.
>> So, I'm a little confused on the you
have to have a case, but if somebody's
coming in from another, you know, place,
they're not going to have a case number.
I mean, don't understand that.
>> So, every agency can set their own
parameters within Flock. and and I I
don't want to misspeak so I may have to
follow up with you on that because I I
will say Flock has been adding a lot of
the audit tools that we we used to do
audits by hand. Now they have an audit
tool in addition to us still doing
audits by hand. Um and th those systems
they're bringing on audit system. So if
you don't mind I can get you an answer
tomorrow. I just don't want to misspeak
about what's required on all agencies.
>> Um, thank you, Chief H, for the
presentation and for all the
work that you've done and safeguard
try to make our use of it responsible.
Um, I just have like a couple questions
and you might not know the answer to
this one, but even if it's a even
[clears throat] if I know we only
subscribe to the, you know, moment in
time snapshot, but do the cameras that
we have, are they capable of taking
pictures of other things like people and
things like that, even though we don't
have access to it because we don't pay
for it.
>> The only thing that triggers that photo
is a view.
>> Okay,
>> the cameras, and this is something I may
probably should have put in there. So,
the cameras are in the rightway of the
roadway.
>> Yep.
>> Way the cameras are angled, they're not
angled at the sidewalk. They're angled
into the roadway to be able to capture
that. Now, I will say that
>> you may get a a more down the road
picture of a sidewalk because the angle
that the the the wide ang the angle of
the camera capturing it,
>> right? But it would be a car car that
would happen to be somebody on the side.
Well, my my other question is like what
would it mean like let's say we get rid
of our flock ch what would it mean for
our city to be a no flock zone in the
middle of a area that is heavily blocked
like could it could let's say somebody
commits a crime
>> and they know I know I've driven by 10
blockheads getting away from the scene
of the crime could they theoretically
then ditch that car somewhere in Adele
states, steal another car, then get out
of Adale.
>> Hey, Mike.
>> That that's kind of a loaded question.
[laughter] I mean, don't get me wrong. I
mean, we can throw a theory out. Yeah,
that's a theory.
>> Yeah.
>> Um,
>> but like,
>> do I want to give that much credit to a
criminal?
>> Yeah,
>> probably not. But
>> what what it is is
>> we're a whole in a network. And right I
will tell you the cab county we work
very closely together all of our
municipalities
>> and Susan went on board our first
agencies that were approved were the cab
county agencies capdo marshals you know
>> the municipalities um
>> it it pays dividends across the board
and you know don't want to get into
speculation but you know that that's
just something that's only only the
future would know is if we were to
become another void weekend. Um because
every agency in the cab minus Pine Lake
>> is a subscriber to
>> so Clarkston
>> Clarkston
» everybody not to mention the caps county
actually has very robust robust system
um and
>> yep and and you're seeing all the the
flock is feeding into real time crime
centers on these bigger cities that have
a need and create these real time crime
Yeah.
>> Um, Chief, are you because I know some
of the concerns that have been um talked
about
concerns like legality and and privacy
concerns and are you able to elaborate a
little bit on like the legal hurdles
that allow Flock to even run this model
in the first place? So you know what the legal things that they pass and
what's passed and you know to because we
do have private laws and place and
stuff. Can you elaborate on on some of
those concerns and what was what
measures were
>> yeah? Um
the arguments that have been made in
district courts and that's where it's
been at now are fourth amendment fourth
amendment
illegal search and seizure to capture
that data. Um those arguments have been
struck down by circuit courts. Um there
are still several pending to include the
one in our circuit um and it'll be the
first one that's heard out of Florida.
The way that the the way the rulings
have geared is to be a Fourth Amendment
illegal search and seizure. They're
arguing the track versus the snapshot
and time.
When a citizen is in public in a public
space to include a roadway,
they do not have a right to privacy. Uh,
it goes back to you see videos of First
Amendment auditors that stand on a
sidewalk and videotape shopping center
trying to get a reaction because you
have no right to privacy when you're in
a public space. Um, the roadway
specifically, you have no right to
privacy preventing an officer running
your tag just to run your tag. Um,
that's been ruled on as well. So what
Flock is virtually doing is doing what
any officer could do at any time and
capturing that data and getting that
return and if it's on a what we call a
hot list wanted stolen vehicle wanted
stol wanted person missing person
associated with other criminal activity
that falls in that category.
It's capturing that and basically doing
an officer's job. Um, I don't want to
pinch and hold myself, but it is a huge
force multiplier for a 14 person police
department in metro Atlanta
that it really is. Uh, now I also
respect everyone's right to privacy. I
mean, when I take the uniform off and
I'm out with my family, you know, if
someone were to throw a video camera up
my face in public, I wouldn't react.
But, I mean, would it kind of burp me?
Yeah, I respect that. But that's where
[clears throat] we're at with the
current federal case laws, current
circuit court rulings.
Can that change in time? We all know one
of these cases go to Supreme Court.
justices rule differently.
It changes the whole scope of that. But
until that happens, we work in the here
and now of that this is all public
information. It's the right privacy.
It's not tracking your vehicle as I
explained before because it's a moment
in time at a specific location. That's
why [clears throat] if I were to put a
GPS tracker on your vehicle, I would
have to have a warrant to place that
tracker to track your vehicle and
actually give me where your vehicle's
travel. Flock doesn't do that. The ALPR
system does not do that. Let me
reiterate, I'm only talking about what
we have.
It's a moment in time. It's a snapshot
on a public roadway in a vehicle where
you're legally required to have a
registration a tag on that vehicle.
» Thank you.
>> I've got a question.
So, first thank you for you personally, for your activity
with your your organization with the
chiefs of police and with your demeanor
and the way you talk about this and the
way you consider it because it's clear
that you are seeing it holistically. You
are aware of personal, private, big
picture and small picture concerns.
you've given examples of lots of
different ways where it could go in in
different directions. So, thank you for
that. I really appreciate the way you
address this. So, I have a two
questions. One is about retention time
frame and one is about a technical
specific thing about camp. So I saw that
the uh police chiefs of city of Decar
did a similar presentation to their
board and I think I also read I just
can't remember where that the flock
systems has changed their maximum
retention day to 7 days instead of 30
days
for not for cases like when it's in a
case it can keep going but just for like
the raw data let's say can you comment
on
So
that [clears throat] specific retention
period has come up in some preemptive
conversations leading into some of these
future meetings we're going to have with
GACP and GSA sheriff's chief
associations
um is further reducing that time limit
down shorter. Um
I personally what I have seen is
reducing it down to 7 days may be a
little bit too much. The reason being is
we may be investigating a case and we
may not have that vehicle information
for six days. We may not only get that
vehicle information till day seven.
Could I see it being reduced? Yeah, I
think seven days is a little bit much.
I'm I'm open to discussions with my
peers as we move forward working with
the um legislators.
I think seven days is too little. And
also think about prime example of this
is how many of y'all go for a vacation
for a full week? That's seven days. You
come home and you realize your house is
fertilized. You have Ring cameras. You
didn't see the alert. It captured the
vehicle.
day eight you're reporting that burglary
or day seven in the you know 11 hour
you're reporting that burglary and that
data is gone and that's what I'm looking
at is in a perfect world we have vehicle
information in real time in a real world
situation most of our cases we're not
developing those leads of a vehicle for
several days so seven days I've seen it
and you know And I'm preparing for some
of these meetings, I'm going to be
talking to my criminal investigators and
kind of seeing what their timeline is on
when they're developing realistic leads
because we don't want to go every, you
know, black SUV. We want to make them
up. You know, we may not get that
Cadillac Escalade till day seven or day
eight. Um, that's kind of where I'm at
with that.
>> Okay. Okay. And then just a practical
camera question like you mentioned
uh when the system's installed or when a
camera is installed or if the future
camera were to be installed, do you
personally get an opportunity to see the
angle or view that that that camera has?
>> Yeah. So basically in the um coding
phase, the development before approval,
um they have to send a scout team out.
Um I give them I give them locations
where I would like them. um those
cameras are solar powered. So they have
to send a scout team out and they have
to do some map work on the back end to
make sure that it's going to generate
enough solar power.
Additionally, it gives me a snapshot um
of what that angle would look like
before install and then after install.
We can see it in real time and we can
also make adjustments. I mean that
that's the thing too is they they have a
an angle downward angle because they're
up on holes as well as like an angle
away from the road that they maintain
for their system to be effective. I know
that, you know, many people would prefer
to just maybe not have it, but if there
is an an if there were a camera in a
what someone might consider a sensitive
location, like near a school, if there
was other places where it could be, if
it could be moved 50 feet and still
operate function, is is there an
opportunity to consider that?
>> Yeah. If there was a concern, a
reasonable concern if even if it's just
to feel better and feel like the school
is not in the field of view, for
example,
>> absolutely and that could be done. Um, I
will just caveat that with uh once the
cameras are in place and everything is
good to go. There is a cost associated
with moving the equipment. To me, it's
minimal. It's anywhere between $500 to
$1,500 based on location and everything
else.
um you know th those can be considered
and dealt with after installation.
>> Thank you.
» Okay.
>> Thank you, Chief H.
>> Thank you.
>> All right.
Uh let's move to the next
item since I know there's people here.
Um
» Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So uh the dicab
municipal association which is the
association of municipal governments
within the capab county. So all of the
cities of the cab county have a um
working group to discuss items of mutual
relevance.
And uh one of the the
items of mutual relevance,
though unlikely and far into the future,
if ever considered, would be the
complete municipalization of the cab
county, meaning that uh either existing
cities would expand their boundaries or
new cities would be created to remove
uninccorporated areas of Dicab county.
Now, the likelihood of that happening,
um, as the mayor and I understand
politically, is about 0%.
Um
however uh as an exercise
uh the BMA executive director has asked
all of the municipalities
to provide a map of its
ultimate aspirational
annexation goals if there were no
political hurdles.
um so that
Brook the city of Brook Haven who has a
u robust GIS system can plot all of
that. The reason to do that is so that
if this ever came to fruition uh we
would have a head start on those
discussions and not uh be embroiled in
inner city conflict.
Uh so
what I am proposing to submit to the
Dicap Municipal Association for this
exercise purpose is the study map that
we developed in 2018 with the Carl
Vincent Institute. And I've included
that map uh in your packet.
The map is a little out of date because
uh some of some of the area that we
studied for annexation purposes has
already been annexed i.e. Berkeley
Village. Um so my thought was to provide
DMA with this map for the purposes of
their GIS exercise knowing that this is
not a decision point for you guys. It's
not a decision point that will happen
anytime in the near future or something
that the county is interested in taking
on with the state legislature or
anything that the state legislature is
actually interested in taking. So, uh I
say that to say that our submission is
likely um just for for show purposes.
Now, what could become a reality
and the CEO has expressed interest in in
the fans is that there are what we kind
of refer to as donut holes in already
incorporated areas where you have
a a property or an assemblage of
properties that still exist as
uninccorporated within the normal
boundary. of the incorporated area and
we have two of those. Um the first is
Aendell Station Apartments
and the other is the American Legion
property. Uh now the CEO has expressed
an interest because it's difficult for
them to provide services to these
properties within the boundaries of
cities. So she she has expressed
interest in hearing uh a case from the
municipalities for incorporating
existing donut holes. Uh I don't know if
what her interest level is. I
[clears throat] don't know whether or
not uh the state legislature would share
that interest because it would have to
be a legislative annexation. Uh just to to clarify with you guys, there's
only two ways that a city uh can
accomplish a leg an annexation outside
the bounds of of state legislation and
that is through either the 100% method
or 60 method to
uh brush you up on that those processes.
The 100% method means that a property
owner with a you know who has control of
an entire property says we want to annex
into uh the city and if the city is
interested in that proposition from that
property owner and it's contiguous then
the city can grant that annexation
petition. There's also another method
for neighborhoods called the 6060
method. This is
>> yeah 60 no it's 606 it's 60 and I'll
explain
>> okay so so the 6060 method for
neighborhoods so prop individual
properties owned by multiple you know
you have more than one owner such as
what happened with Berkeley Village 60%
of the property owners in that area and
60% of the registered voters in that
area have to sign the annexation
petition for you guys to even consider
the action. Um, so, uh, needless to say
again, what I'm proposing to submit to
DMA is really just for exercise purposes
only. And uh uh I you know I propose
revising this map uh to to uh exclude the need or the want or the
desire for Berkeley Village which is
already in the case.
>> This was the map you did in 2018.
>> Yeah, those were areas we studied for
potential addexation noting that that
would be uh the the far reaches of
boundary expansion.
That's correct.
And if we if one other thing to uh speak
to
um was that potential municipal conflict
earlier. So let's just say we reduced
these areas. uh that would provide a
greater opportunity for your neighbors
in Clarkston or Decater to try food
those are. So you want to be as um
aspiration
but like Patrick said I mean I think the
chances of something like this happening
are pretty slim.
I mean the county has no I mean other
than these donut holes you mentioned you
mentioned which are this really
departments of the American Legion
there's no reason for the county to want
to do this I mean they're just you know
why would they do it it's like
>> think they would be very opposed to
>> they would I mean unless they're
spending more on services in that area
than they're collecting in taxes which
is rare I mean I don't know maybe it's
not but generally that's not something
they're super interested
um
there would be some advantage to them
municipalizing themselves for the entire
southern part of the county because they
collect a whole other range of taxes
that don't currently collect
>> and um but the argument for that is not
actually that great either. Um and there
would be probably some serious
opposition to that. I mean, there was an
effort for years to municipalize the
whole southern part of the county and it got a tiny bit of traction, but it
eventually fizzled out after years of
effort.
And um
you know,
I think if if if we could gain some of
these properties like the Legion and the
apartment complex, that'd be great. That
makes sense. there's been an indication
that the countyy's interested in doing
that because again they're
the cost of servicing those is I guess
in their mind not really worth it and there's a lot of those in the county
and um they probably studied that and
said hey you know it's not going to be a
big big enough hit for us these cities
need it we don't want it you know works
out better
but like Patrick said to not participate
in this could be falling in. Well, you
just you never know. But
um because the legislature changes
frequently and what the legislature was
10 years ago or 12 years ago is not what
it is now and that change and the
who knows. Um yeah. So we're just trying
to
as we've done many times before just
make sure we put our claim in.
Um,
so
>> that's it.
>> Is that fair where we are?
>> Yes.
>> So,
you know, so I mean,
>> y'all are all good if I send
>> We have
>> Yeah.
>> Um,
this is probably at least the third time
we've done this.
Like, okay, let's try it again. Why not?
You know, so let's see. Um but uh anyway
I got nothing more.
>> That's it.
Okay. So any other we take a
two three minute break.
>> Sure. Two minute break.
>> All right.
>> She's counting. Don't count.
We have um
you know covered all of our discussion
items and so public comment. We're now
open for public comment. If you see the
thing three minutes, please give us your
name and address just for the record. Uh
yes, Phil. Uh Phil 891. Um
been ordered about regarding the golf
cart ordinance. Um I
would basically agree that keeping the
game fast 16 I guess makes sense. Uh
but
I would like
counselor and
to explore
mechanisms for giving uh police force a
greater opportunity to actually do
policing on golf carts because I from
what I am seeing which included I think
yesterday
someone ing with a baby strapped to
their chest um in a golf ball. U that
some some greater form of enforcement I
think is necessary to keep uh something
from happening because obviously even
with the roads occurring people are not
uh the existing laws and raising the age
is going to change that. Uh then uh
regarding the the clock system
I would encourage
to continue the current uh in the
current contract. Uh and but be very
cognizant of what is doing to make the
security
to eliminate abuse of the program. Uh
and then hopefully having that
information available
the decision on whether to renew it and
thank the chief for having a really good
policy for us and uh hopefully influence
any building policies for uh statewide
task force and then I will say with a
great amount of relief uh I'm happy to
hear that it was an exercise only for
the annestation because uh and seeing
Gam and discussing it to my better half.
Uh I was very very worried about what an
increase in geographical size of of the
what's being shown there uh would be to
the the character of our city as a
whole. Thank you.
>> You go on.
Yes, ma'am.
>> Hi, I'm Laura Whan. I'm SFDA executive.
Uh thank you chief foration. I very much
appreciate that. Um two things strike
me. Um thank you for putting some guard
rails in place more of our
appreciate that. Uh two things that were
said. Um chief you said that
approximately 300 agencies beyond Avenue
have access to our
chat. I don't know if you looked at me,
but my mouth dropped open like a fish
when you said that. Um because it
doesn't go away. That's the fight that
concerns. I realize that your control
over here you said and is true. you
don't have a woman as if using it in
appropriate use in other places that is
um I ask you to think about not having
revoking or limiting that access because
that is extreme
you can control what happens here.
Um and then Patrick you mentioned and
maybe chief as you can speak to this if
this is an if someone violates the
policy prison
inappropriate use
here Patrick you mentioned discipline I
want to know what that is and can you
think
>> let me just point this is public comment
and we try not to engage in sort of a
debate or dialogue and we're recording
your questions and can get back to you,
but we can't always answer everything on
the spot and we try to avoid that. So,
>> comment with more dialogue than
>> it's not it's actually there, but I'll
do Yeah, we've done that in the past,
but it doesn't work.
>> So, if you're able to get back to me,
how will that
>> you'd have to give us your email or
>> I can go back. We have comment
there.
>> So the comment on it will be responded
to.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> And that's just to be fair to everyone.
So
>> um yes ma'am.
>> Um my name is Diane Dhy and I'm uh live
in the condos and I'm also a member of
Aendale Action.
I'm very concerned about what you had
said. I I loved your presentation.
I'm very satisfied with the uh work of
Aenddale
um police, but what I am concerned and I believe the local structure is
being framed properly with a with uh
benchmarks
so that you could look back and see how
this is working. My large concern is of
um is building a larger surveillance
network. And at any point in time,
we couldn't stop it.
And I would like to know whe uh when you
go to these meetings with the senator, I
think it's really important to have
everybody understand that even if there
is oversight in Georgia, this is much
larger than one state or the southern
states and we have to keep in mind the
broader picture of what is going to um
be the final outcome.
as laws change.
So I think it's it can be a very good
thing, but a lot of times when you build
something that is this massive and
grows,
I think it could become something that
is uh um out of that can get out of
control
and could come back to bite us.
Thank you all and thank you for your
efforts.
Okay. Uh, yes, ma'am. Back there. And
then,
>> yeah. U, my name is Paula Rose. I'm at
842 Stratford. And I was not planning to
speak tonight, so I don't have anything
prepared, but I did want to say I came
into it, uh, as many people have already
said, not necessarily concerned about
the AEPD.
Um, and thank you, Chief Hess. What you
said tonight really just confirmed that
we, you know, we don't necessarily have
anything to be worried about locally.
That being said, my bigger concerns are
with Flock as a company and not just
Flock, but also their competitors. Um,
the idea that they the data just
disappears after 30 days.
Maybe I'm cynical, but I don't believe
that.
>> [laughter]
>> And that's that's the concern that I
have. It's not even not not Aenddale and
maybe not even, you know, some of the
other access, which is a concern, but my
bigger concern is is the bigger picture,
the flock, what they're doing with it,
what other companies are working with
them to do with it, what governments are
working with them to do. Um, whether
it's under the table or above the board.
>> Thank you. Pleasure.
Great.
Uh
yeah.
>> Hey there. Uh my name's Ethan. I live at
315 Stratford Green. Um I believe you
are a good man. I appreciate you
preparing this presentation. Cheap pets.
The gap in your logic is yes. Perhaps
now. This seems on the up and up. I
understand you want to focus on the now.
You reiterated that many times. You said
you don't want to play the what if game.
Then why have the risk? You do seem
ready to focus on what if when we're
talking about a 7-day limit. Why is this
different? Why should we trust SLO? What
if the policy changes in the future?
>> Yep.
>> Shouldn't the purpose of the chief of
police be to be forward thinking for
assessing risk and leading by example?
Wouldn't you want a leader with
accountability?
Why should we trust Flock to look out
for that in those states? Cities in
Colorado have canceled their Flock
cameras and are taping garbage bags over
the cameras because Flock won't take
them down. Does that seem like a vendor
we can trust for our city?
>> Speak on it.
>> I'm skeptical of the claim that we don't
that they don't track roots as these
cameras are everywhere. It doesn't
matter what route you are taking if they
are tracking the points where you are.
Also, your hateville point is flawed
because if you take 285 block doesn't
monitor interstates yet. You can get to
Aenddale to hate because it's on 285.
Otherwise, Atlanta is the most surveiled
state in the country.
There's a lot in your in lot of
information in your presentation about
what's happening now, but we are worried
about how these systems will may be
abused now and in the future. I hope you
will join us in being proactive and
thinking about a better world that we
would like to live in.
>> Thank you.
» Yes. Well, again, thank you for the
presentation. I do really appreciate
steps you've taken locally. You seem
like you've been proactive more than
what was required to be on top of a lot
of these concerns. I think it's clear
not everywhere has. Um but beyond just
potential for abuse, I also want to just
talk about what even the company does on
the surface. I understand that it's
taking still pictures, not technically
tracking you, but if there's cameras at
every corner, you can see here, here, that paints a very clear picture.
I understand the cameras are not
everywhere right now, but the push seems
to be to install more and more of them
and expand them to get to that point
that is effectively tracking.
Um, even the distinction with still
pictures between videos, a video is just
a lot of still pictures. If you put
enough still pictures together, you get
a very clear picture. It might not be 24
frames per second. It might be one frame
per second, one frame every 10 seconds.
You can still clearly see what's going
on with that. Um,
this creates a database on everyone that
passes in front of these cameras whether
they committed a crime or not just in
the database ready to be looked up. I
think regardless of a technicality, I
know it's a legal gray area currently
going through the courts. I think that
makes a lot of people uncomfortable.
Um, I also don't really believe the
company's claims about still photos and
only tracking vehicles. Not in Evan
states, but in other places in Georgia,
there's lot cameras in parks, on walking
trails, places where cars would never
be. If all they can do is take pictures
of videos, what are those cameras doing?
It just doesn't seem to add up. The
company has been publicly called many, times before. I don't know why we
really trust them.
Greg Tendler, 712 Stratford Green.
>> Uh, Will Kidd, uh, 13 South Avenue
Plaza. Uh, thank you for addressing some
of our concerns, Chief. I just been
wondering throughout all of this in
discussion of lock cameras. Why would
like an a more analog type of traffic
camera not be sufficient? one that is
not included on this enormous nationwide
database with so many points of access
to so many different people who we have
no idea who they are. So that's that
makes sense.
>> Thank you.
>> Yeah, Phil,
Philip Pavish, 3230 Kensington. My whole
career has been in IT, so I just want to
talk about kind of the IT concern I
have. Um
I don't know about flock. I don't know
about the company how good they are but
once they deliver data to somebody
they've lost control of it. So the claim
about 14 days for 30 30 days of data
retention. Yeah you lose ability to
search but once it's out there it's out
there. And so if the data go you know
prints screen captures you know copy
paste whatever. We live in a world of
aggregation where people are taking all
this data about us and putting it all
together about where we shop and what we
do and photos. So once that data is
delivered to the customer, the data
retention, it's not a moot point, but
it's a lesser point. So I just want
people to remember that once it
delivered, it's delivered. And the data
retention doesn't really stop that.
Thank you.
» Yes, ma'am.
[clears throat]
>> Um, hello. I'm Ashley Kinger. I also
live at 3154 Stratford Green.
Uh, I understand that you find the block
system is successful, but I wonder if
it's worth all of us living in a
surveillance state. Uh, while you say
it's a snapshot, the success stories are
because it tracks people across the
state and over state lines. A system
across our country is being built that
have tracked women looking for abortion
care, have stalked women, have stopped
activists and protesters. What else will
it track in the future? and our cameras
contributes to this system. It would be
easier to arrest people without the
Constitution, without needing a warrant,
without having to prove just cause. Just
because these cameras make your job
easier doesn't mean they're right.
[clears throat]
It's the scale and connected network
that makes it a violation. It's also our
money and our community. uh we can say
if we don't want to be photographed in
public with our own tax dollars every
time I go past the falcon.
>> Thank you.
» Yes, Adam Galludo 3048 open place. Uh
back again still here.
>> Um so the 7-day thing is a setting. You
can revert it back to 30 days. It's just
a default setting. Um, the DHS thing,
check the email. It's a lot. Uh, the,
uh, let's see, facial recognition,
vehicle making model, those are full
video sensors. They can do it. Raven was
a gunshot detection system and then a
software roll out turned it into a human
distress detection system. It's all
there. Whether or not they're giving it
to us, that's a different question. Um,
also Dunwy PD, they ran a search for a
vehicle with a sticker. That's uh,
that's more. Yeah, it's you can find
this stuff. It's all been foyed. Um,
let's see. I don't know about John
Alvers. I don't know anything about him,
but there's some interesting stuff
online about uh Flock's access to Chris
Carr or AG. So, I'd be surprised if
Garrett doesn't show up at all meetings,
honestly. Um,
privacy argument is uh basically
predicated on the fact that they're so
disconnected, it's not tracking. Atlanta
is not the most sur the correction on
that is Atlanta is the most surveiled
city in the world outside of China. We
have 28 they have at least 28,000 flock
cameras and AJC clocks it at 60,000. I
just don't know if they're all connected
to flock. So at some point how dense
does it have to get before you are
tracking? Um so this system wasn't built
to be secure. It was built to make
money. I'm glad they finally added
multiple factor authentication and
requiring case numbers, but they didn't
before. Block is just plugging holes in
a dam after they're found in a foyer
request that makes a national news
story. So, if I was wearing that badge,
I would absolutely be arguing on how to
use this ethically because it's very
powerful and it's helpful, but we can't
unfortunately. It's just bad. It's just
a bad system and we cannot control how
other people use it. So, we're part of
this thing trying to use it well, but we
can't control how everyone else is using
it. And we can't know if the company is
doing to us what they have
demonstrabably done to other
municipalities throughout. So,
unfortunately, we just can't use it.
It's a venture capital backed private
firm in their series G funding round.
>> They are uh what are they up to that we
can't foil is basically the question.
like how much policing do we have to be
doing of block to make sure we are not
participating in all these things we
know that have already happened nations
um yeah oh and and the cameras by the
way I've walked by cameras uh that are
pointed at kids parks um it's all there
pools stuff like that it's it's all
there thank you
Yes.
>> So, I won't reiterate my entire
statement again, Lizzie Bourge, 712
Stratford Green. Um, but as per the
concerns mentioned in the regular
session about ICE having access to us
and I know that Flock says they've not
contract with federal agencies, but if
we can be compelled to work with ICE or
DHS as per appendix F that was mentioned
last meeting, then effectively our data
is their data. But I do think we have to
keep that in mind. We're thinking about
security. This is I understand Chief
Hess is doing everything he can to keep
it safe within ABPD and I appreciate
what you've done, but respectfully it's
out of your hands. Thank you.
» All right. Uh do we have any online?
>> [clears throat]
>> None.
>> Okay. All right. Last call from the
audience.
>> Is anybody missing a phone?
>> Oh,
personal tracking device.
» You don't think this thing is listening
to everything today?
>> Um, okay. Any other comments?
Once or twice? Okay. Thank you all for
being here. Thank you all for your
comments and and waiting through three
hours of meeting. I hope that it was
worthwhile in some way for you. Do
appreciate you being here this time with
that. Any folks comments up here? We all
>> Okay. So, do I have a motion to move?
>> Do I have a second? Call say I
>> Thank you all again.
>> Have a good evening.