mute us again.
All
right. So, it is 5:15. This is the
second meeting of the advisory committee
on homelessness.
Would it be beneficial for everyone?
I'll admit it would be beneficial for me
if to start we went around and just did
names again as we start to learn one
another.
>> Yeah.
>> And I think that's true. That's not bad
because the people joining us
>> don't know what I think we may have to
do a couple times as members I mean
committee members.
>> So I'll kick us north. My name is
Carolyn Leer. I am the city manager. I'm
uh Pat
» I'm Pat Keton
Bundle, director of marketing for
Hollywood Casino.
>> Um Tony, psychiatrist locally.
>> Uh Ben Treat, director of Bangor Public
Library.
>> Hey now, my name is Jason Goodri.
>> I am Melissa Rhodess, director of
property management.
>> Howdy. I'm Tal Vasquez. My pronouns are
they them and I am a community organizer
in the banker.
>> Any staff in the background?
>> I am Bruce Hughes. I'm the homeless
response coordinator for public health
and community services. And
>> I'm Robin Stanicki. I'm the community
development officer.
>> I'm Dave Berie.
» Right. So the first item on the agenda
is to elect a chair, vice chair, and
secretary for this committee. Um the way
we'll do it sort of informally but
aligned with council normal procedures,
which are to first take nominations um
and then do committee vote. Um,
if it's okay with everyone, we can start
with the the chair. I mean, I said
president. Did I say president?
» The chair and the vice chair. Forgive my
>> absolutely. Um, so the chair will
generally
um take over what I've done thus far in
the conduct of meetings.
myself.
Um, also I'll be looking probably to
meet with the chair ahead of each
meeting to help set the agenda and then
the vice chair generally will just step
in when the chair isn't available. Um,
the role of secretary has traditionally
been sort of note minute taking. Uh,
fortunately for you all, we generally
allow YouTube to do that for us because
we're being recorded and it's being
saved. So, um, unless there's some
failure that's a pretty easy non-comm,
so I know we have to generate an interim
report as well as a final thing.
Is that requiring up to three people to
write this or it's going to be supported
to city?
>> So I could see that going one of two
ways. So the um
I'll talk a bit about the RFP for a
facilitator. I did include in that RFP
um the possibility but not the
commitment that we would also use the
facilitator to draft. Y
>> um if we did not choose to do that
probably primarily because of cost. um
city staff would support you with that.
You wouldn't be expected to originate
those drafts
>> because I could see the three um
officers kind of reviewing the cont
identify the path of content and
whatever it is and then they review
content and then goes once they approve
it goes committee review and then they
tinker with it to final draft.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think given the amount of
time you're already committing for for
no compensation, it would be
unreasonable to also expect you to draft
>> because we need a librarian to really
know how to [laughter]
[clears throat]
» I do enjoy writing. [laughter]
So if if you'd like, we could start with
nominations for chair. Yeah, it includes
self-nomination if anyone would like to
volunteer for that role.
>> So can I sort of like dramatically
nominate someone else like three?
>> Absolutely.
>> I nominate Pat Healey.
>> Okay. Had to try.
» I nominate Alvin.
Yeah, I will second that.
>> Okay. Sorry.
>> It's because we like to like
that could go either way.
>> No, no.
>> Also know you're chairing the parking
committee, too. I am respect.
» Do we have any other nominations that
anyone would like? I would say Jason,
you know, but I don't know what you want
to do. I feel weird put stuff like that,
you know, like the only
>> I enjoyed it a little bit when I
>> transportation system and again
>> that would be the only issue that I have
at this time is that
>> I think I think once we identify chair
as the vice chair still be complimentary
to that person. So I think you know in
terms of that piece I think because it's
supposed to support each other. So
>> that I'm good with
>> Jay would you be able to do any of this
chair work remotely? Um that's a
question that I wouldn't know
that
>> can we discourse about that now? How do
people feel about that?
>> Please ask.
Yeah, I mean I would say just from an
operational standpoint, it's generally
more efficient if the chair is able to
be in the room. Like obviously
extenduating circumstances, I think it's
totally fine. Um but I think um and this
is by no means me stumping for myself
because I had other names in my head but
by but myself, but uh I I do think that for a chair to be fully effective,
they it's best if they can be in the
room as often as possible. The only time
I've seen that work a remote is when
everybody's remote. Exactly. Continuous
remote. That's the only way to do it.
But um but if you have a hybrid like
this really have to happen in person. So
>> So Alton, what's your capacity like? Do
you want to do this?
>> I mean I certainly can. Um I personally
think that um you know we have some
other folks that I would have nominated
honestly. Um Dr. Tony and Amy. Um, you
guys are both subject matter experts and
well respected in the community and and
I see a lot of value in the chairperson
holding those qualifications.
Um, by no means do I put that on to
either of you. Um, but certainly should
I be nominated. I think it would be
awesome if one of you would be vice
chair to help provide to your point that
complimentary knowledge. um I think it's
important for that balance and and where
I'm not coming from a perspective of
um subject matter expertise.
There is some drawbacks to that.
>> I also think there's benefit to it.
>> Agreed.
>> Because I think there is a way to be
sometimes more neutral.
Um, and
so I mean I personally don't think
there's any downside to not necessarily
being a subject matter expert as a
chair. You've been a chair of other
committees. So you kind of understand
like the structure that works well and
flows that work well and navigating kind
of
like how does a meeting usually go? Like
I don't have any of that experience. So
I would support that. um having you as chair and then vice chair certainly
being whomever we decide as a as a team
would be a good support
» I mean perspective as well too because I
think while we [clears throat] all you
know this committee and stuff
um I think because you not in it um like
deep so to speak I think it does give a
perspective perspective that when you
need to you know see something I think
and that's where we're supposed to give
that
>> feedback so
>> I think I suppose we could also use a
format like you chair or a period and
that would give a chance for like other
parties maybe like J or I sort of see um
what your experience has been like from
your other committees and then maybe we
could step in to help Um, is there a
term on is chair annual? Is chair
>> say for the whole duration of one year
is or is it your your entire term? I
don't different boards have different
right now. We only got we only got one
year term
>> actually don't think the ordinance
specifies a term. Um I would revert to
>> by social security
>> people here have been appointed to
different terms. Annually that's what I
thought. Yeah. So therefore if it's
annually next year
>> um we we you know you may change over
the one thing down the road that you may
want to consider is changing that to
split the if the plans continue beyond
that one year is to maybe split it in a
way that you don't lose all the brain
trust in one time. Well, so so the terms
themselves are three years staggered.
Some so some of us I believe have the
full three, some of us are on two and
some of us are on through the to
>> um but I just didn't know about the
chairperson that was
>> really to be at least one one year. I
mean, you can't have it for six months
at a time. Now, this group, especially,
» so [clears throat] is you said you would
nominate.
>> What's that?
>> You said you would nominate
Amy.
>> I would You may decline.
>> I may politely decline. Um,
>> yes.
>> Yeah. As you can see, even me just like
screaming in here at 5:15, that's like a
typical day in the life of a clinician.
You I mean, you get it. You never know.
>> I'm I'm open to being if you do this,
I'm open to live stream.
>> Yeah.
So, I think that
>> No, no, no. Just Yeah, just discuss it.
But yeah, but I think if you know, we
should just take the ball and see.
>> So, somebody has to put that in.
>> Oh, do. So motion and a second and then
we'll call.
>> Okay. Second.
>> Um
» Pat hat.
>> Yes.
>> J. The motion is for you.
>> Lee.
>> Melissa.
>> That's fine. I'll answer.
>> Teal.
>> Yes.
>> Amy.
>> Yes.
>> All right. is a unanimous 8 to zero.
>> Now, do you want to take us over for the
>> I can certainly give it a shot. Um, so
obviously next is is vice chair. Um, so
we'll open it up for discussion. Does
anyone have strong feelings about who
should be nominated vice chair?
>> I like I would say Jason. I know Jason's
been in this sort a lot. Uh, the only
reason why I didn't say you is because I
know that you're overworked. Hey Jason,
I know I've seen you about I know what
you're doing
>> and you have the time. I've seen your posts. I know what's up, man. So,
>> I'm going to nominate Jason.
» Anybody else have strong feelings?
>> Nominate.
» So, should we do motions or
>> So, we'll need motions and second.
>> Okay. Um I introduce a motion to appoint
Jay um as the vice chair.
So we'll do a vote. Start to my left.
I'll say yes.
>> Yes.
>> No.
>> Yes.
>> Is that a yes?
>> Sorry. [laughter]
go for it.
>> I think I will vote yes. Um I think it
sounded like it was going to go either
way or go that way either.
So then we have secretary um which as
Caroline mentioned earlier is not the
heaviest of lifts um because YouTube
does the bulk of the work. Um everyone's
looking at you Ben.
>> Yeah, I know.
>> It's just something about being a
librarian. except for
>> it imparts trust.
[clears throat and laughter]
>> Um, so
>> I've seen the movie too.
>> The secretary or the librarian?
>> The librarian.
>> Yeah. Um, uh, so basically it would just
be like if if tech failed then I would
need to record motions and
>> yeah, I'm happy to do that.
>> Does anyone else have any nominations?
That's doubling down on the
>> Seeing no more nominations, we will put
it to vote.
>> Do you need a second?
>> Second.
>> Oh, yes.
>> Yes.
>> Just got volunteer.
>> Take better notes. [laughter]
[clears throat]
>> Right. So with that, we have elected our
chair, our vice chair, and our
secretary. And the next item on the
agenda is the update on facilitator
selection RFP. So I will hand that back
to Karen.
>> So um we posted an RFP on the 16th,
which was lightning speed in city
business. [laughter] Um and that RFP was
soliciting um a facilitator for this
work. As I mentioned, it also um
included the possibility of drafting
assistance.
Um it closes on the 29th.
We did get one question from a potential
bidder.
It was a professor from Texas that was
interested and his question was
two-part. It was would we be interested
in a facilitator participating remotely
for our meetings or would we be
interested in a um facilitator who was
only able to participate twice. So, we
would only have them for two instances,
perhaps for longer meetings. Um, and I
will say that I did take the liberty to
say I didn't think that that was going
to be the most effective way
[clears throat] for the facilitator to
participate. Um, I hope you will forgive
me.
>> And on both accords or just on the two
visits? I I said no on both that I
didn't think that it would be effective.
Um
>> yeah,
>> that's actually going to put a lot of
work on it.
>> For sure. Yeah.
>> But it sounds like we still have time
for other biders.
>> Correct. Yeah. And that was just there
their um biders had until I believe
Wednesday of this week to submit
questions. And so we only got
>> noting they're just asking questions.
They were just answering questions.
Yeah.
>> But I'm going to do this as
>> um and I don't know, they don't tell me
whether we've gotten any yet. Um
>> and how long do you open that window
open? [snorts]
>> Um so it was posted the 16th, closes the
19th. So um two weeks, which you know,
if we don't get the types of responses,
um we're interested in
>> the 19th or the 29th.
>> 29th.
>> Yeah.
>> Um we can open it back up. you know, but
um I figured we'd start with a really
brief period in hopes that we can get
someone in here really quickly to help
facilitate.
>> Um and so my hope is because those the RFP process will be closed this week
that by our next meeting I'll at least
have some recommendations if not a
selection. Um depending, you know, I
think it kind of depends on what we get.
um whether we just want to I think you
sort of authorized me to sort of make
the decision. If it's close and there's
some really good candidates, I may ask
for your input. Um
we have that situation where we have
lots of really wonderful candidates to
choose from.
>> Awesome. Any other on the RFP?
>> Does anybody have suggestions that city
could report in that?
>> There was a great facilitator that the
state used for
>> [clears throat]
>> strategic action plan around uh the HIV
response that I could get the name of
but I also think they're far away so I
don't think I think it would be another
situation where it be like one or two
>> meetings they traveled all over the
country but if I mean if we get to the
end of the twoe period and there's just
like nothing and we want to extend it I
can always check
>> how many hours we save
>> so We estimated that um at minimum it
would be the twohour participating in
the meetings plus we explained work to
repair to prepare [clears throat]
um but we didn't sort of set an
expectation on how many hours and what
we asked for was an hourly rate so
they're not being asked to bid you know
$10,000 it's you know my hourly rate is
x and then
>> I mean if we don't get any candidates we
can also maybe revisit whether or not we
think trying somebody who is remote just
to at least
>> have that person in the room. Yeah. If
nobody comes through in the RFP process,
maybe that's a conversation we have at
future meeting.
>> The other thing also is by the time we
make that decision to have consider that I'm guessing put us two meetings
into it.
>> So we would also have a good idea of
momentum too.
>> Yeah. So we can say oh wow we may not
eat one because the fact that we
actually
say let's back that
» but like I said it's the important thing
is to get to work as quickly as possible
because that's I think city wants to
know people want it we want
>> I think the University of Maine system
um and their uh has in the like the
chancellor's office some sort of
function that trains facilitators. Um,
so they may have like a list of people
they've trained they can send it out to.
>> I'll see if I can find a contact there
and and forward it to you. Sure. Is it
appropriate to
>> Yeah. And I'll say I mean staff has our
staff has worked with facilitators in
various professional functions and you
know they've freely forwarded those the
RFP along to to them. I reached out to
someone in New Brunswick who just said
it was too far. Um, so I think you know
to the extent we know people locally who
are willing to do the work that would be
wonderful.
>> Information is like 8 to 10 years old.
So I may have completely reorganized but
you know
» any other comment on
facilitator.
» Seeing none next uh item on the agenda
is to discuss public comment structure
and schedule. Um
so bullet A is public input email. So
you want to start with the email? Sure.
So, um, staff have created an email that
we can give to the public to receive
emailed public input. It is
homelessness. Committee at Bangormain
>> homelessness.
>> Y,
» Bangor maine. Maine fully spelled
out.gov.
Is it up and running yet?
>> It is. Yeah. Um and so myself and two
members of my support staff have access
to that. Okay.
>> And so our plan will be to periodically
provide you in your packet the input
that we've received
>> to avoid you getting
emails after emails to your personal
email. Um, and my question to you is,
and I wanted to ask you before we just
did this, are you okay with me asking
city staff to do some public outreach on
your behalf to, you know, post to social
media and put out a press release saying
this is a place that you can go to
provide the community.
>> Okay. My understanding from the previous
meeting is that the email would be
established and posted to socials in the
interim and because that that seemed to
be how the
proposition of the email was phrased is
this way to collect the public input
while we didn't have a format. So, I'm
all for it.
>> Okay.
» I did have a question about the city's
agenda as well. Um, and maybe it's just
another misunderstanding of mine, but I
thought that we would have some of the
research that we requested just later.
>> It's in the agenda.
» So, public input email, city staff, make
sure everyone is on the same page. city
staff is going to promote that, put it
out in a press release, put it out to
social and we're all in agreement with
that. It's but one one thing also is
it'll be helpful if some of the feedback
that goes council people has brought it
that way too because people may email
specifically let's say Angela Walker
about something
>> that they be encouraged to centralize
the same way rather shooting a separate
email to all that.
>> Okay. Absolutely. And I can I think
that's actually a good point. There may
be instances um generally the public
emails council
>> collectively and I also get a copy of
that but if the public emails a
counselor directly I don't get a copy of
that.
>> Y
>> which means that they may be getting
input that they may want to pass along
to you and I will communicate to them
>> and we don't want but only think that we
dismiss them because we never got it.
So, I think that we know that that's the
way to get to.
>> So, that's a good segue. I'm gonna go a
little off agenda here. Do we have a
council representative at this time?
>> We have not had a liaison assigned yet.
>> We haven't.
>> So, um
>> these are questions.
>> Sorry. And I heard Tony's question.
Yeah.
>> Um,
yes, I believe that. I mean, I I'm not
sure if the ordinance actually directs
it or not. It does. So, yeah, the
council chair should assign a liaison.
We've chatted about it. She has not yet
made that assignment. So, I will take
that as a takeaway for my next check-in
with council chair hos to assign the
liaison.
>> I think it's important to to your point
earlier, Tony, about they may get
messages and things like that. That's
the whole point of having that liaison
here is to be able to help articulate
those things,
>> but also to be able to articulate back
to council as a whole the things that we
are discussing. So,
>> I think that would just be a good thing
to generally educate the council on is
that we have this email now. And so if
people are getting concerns from
constituents, you know, maybe when
you're responding to them, maybe the top
uh level comment that you make should be
um hey, we've got the email um you know,
not to dismiss your point, but it might
be
more adequately received if it comes
through this email.
>> So we don't have an ETA of when they're
going to assign.
I will uh prompt that for [laughter]
that. Um,
and if I might, would you like us to
craft a response acknowledging these
emails on your behalf? And would you
like to review that before we start
using it?
>> Like a canned response.
>> Yeah. like acknowledging that they've
received the emails you so that so that
people who email in under know that it's
been received
>> I don't think it just went to a black
hole a good idea
>> I think absolutely you guys should and I
mean I'm sure you do it for other
>> yes yes
>> email addresses so I don't think we need
to review it
>> okay
>> unless somebody feels strongly otherwise
» so that was the email however the first
primary bullet point was actually and
started there just to make this clean um
public comment structure and schedule.
So we had talked at our last meeting
about having um public forums if you
will for for folks to come in and share
their thoughts. Um does anyone have
feelings strong or otherwise on what
that cadence looks like?
>> You talked about having either a
separate forum time or 20 minutes before
each meeting. Um would be to be
>> I think we tabled the 20 minutes. Yeah,
I think 20 minutes.
I just not enough time.
>> I am in support of a independent forum
that is purely for um collecting
feedback and you know sort of feeling
out the community and what their
feelings on a the issue is and b um the
advisory. Um, [clears throat]
>> there's a part that wants to have like
two separate meetings, one like soon to
get some public feedback and another one
halfway through just to see where just
guess give us a gauge of the
temperature, how they receiving it, how
they how they can hear because they're
hearing what we're doing anyway. So, um,
because that would be a nice way and
then you know you be compliment with the
middle part the email stuff. So I think
that'll give chance to do the one thing
though is we do this especially if we do
a whole meeting we do have to put some
structure in because I I honestly I
worry this because it's so people so
passionate about this topic it's going
to turn into unfortunate school that you
don't want to have almost like nothing
gets done other than people just really
taking anger out at each other or
whatever. So you we got a way to support
their feedback but yet also giving
people some opportunities through the
feedback.
So what are what are the rules on that
front when it comes to public comment?
Are are we as a committee allowed to say
everyone gets three minuteed? I'm just
throwing them right.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys have structure?
>> So our typical structure
>> two minutes
>> three. So, three minutes. And it would
also be appropriate if you were
interested to set a maximum duration.
So, for example, for a city council
meeting, um they'll do no more than an
hour.
>> If you're holding a meeting specifically
for public input, maybe you want to do
more than an hour. Um but yeah, it would
be certainly within your um purview to
set parameters and then we could
communicate that proactively as part of
the notification so people's
expectations aren't are met. um they
don't come in thinking they're going to
have 15 minutes and they only have three
>> and of course I'm guessing there would
be guidelines about like nothing
derogatory.
Now the other thing too is would there
be um the chair have the authority to
say um okay appreciate your time but
that has nothing to do with the homeless
community.
>> Yes. So, we have a whole um public
comment policy and we would just deem if
you if you wanted to follow that policy,
we would deem that that policy would
apply and that would give the chair the
authority if you come in and start
talking about something completely
unrelated or um
>> use obscene language.
>> Just going to ask if we could have that
policy distributed to our emails,
>> at least mine.
>> That would be for us to take a look at
>> that. I mean that way it doesn't take up
actual like advisory time but we can
just pour over it and we find anything
truly heinous in there we can be like
that.
>> I suspect there won't be anything like
that.
>> You never know.
>> I know the city of you never know.
>> Okay. So it sounds like we are pretty
well in agreement that we want a
separate meeting. Um, so talking about
cadence, um, and I know you'd mentioned
maybe one and then six months, but as
far as that first one goes,
respecting everyone's time as we talked
about a little bit earlier, do we think
it makes sense to use our next what
would be our next scheduled committee
meeting to hold the public public forum?
Should we go two in the road or should
it be a completely separate
time? What are people's thoughts? if we
can avoid a completely separate time. Um
I know that when I was asking um when
the position was offered and we were
talking one of the questions I had was
like how frequently are we expecting the
committee to meet. It was not the
frequency that we're meeting now. It was
significantly less. Um so I can tell you
I can't accommodate certainly more than
what we're doing now. Um,
so I would
that it not be an additional meeting.
>> I think also especially again summer
looks like I'll be around for that. And
I think
I'm I'm hoping that because it's this
early infancy, we're trying to get all
the logistics, get some data
that we can start diving up that we
don't need two weeks to do stuff. We
should have a touch base. Maybe maybe
the exact group every two weeks with
some key. Hey, this week I may need Amy
to come in or something like that. This
week you know I may need you know
someone else to come in. So I think that
I could see that happening but right now
at least with summer I wouldn't do a
separate meeting just because I don't
think any
>> I know I support that totally Tony
because
again like if I'm not at work I have
three kids that I'm taking care of and
when I am at work for instance today in
a 4-hour period I saw 17 patients
because I have walk-in hours too. So,
um, yeah, the less frequent the easier
it is for me to make sure that I can get
here and get here on time and devote.
So Amy and other advisory members, um,
how do you feel about like a format
where there are some of us who are sort
of like designated members of a forum
group who attend like this
forum meeting that would not be part of
the regular schedule and
>> like a public comment?
>> Yeah, like a public comment.
>> Yeah. And then that information would
just be consolidated in the packet for
you to review.
>> How often say how often is that going to
happen?
>> What I I would want to know if Amy is,
you know, is okay with it.
>> Yeah. Like if what you're asking is if
we were to have a separate meeting
differently from our regular scheduled
Tuesday meetings, is it okay if some of
us are not able to attend? I'm fine with
that. Um as long as the group is fine
with that. I don't know
>> I I just don't I mean my my my thought
is I wish I was hoping that that would
be few because really it should be the
group entire group listens to comment
that's just
>> that's very
>> so one
yeah
>> but I don't want I don't see
>> um see the plus side in terms of us half
the group missing the comments
>> and reading it because you know because
I'm guessing to some degree we can even
ask questions from you someone making
comments and hey, can you clarify what
that means? I can't get that through
being a transfer.
>> That's true.
>> Yep. I think that's a very that's a fair
and valid point. So, I would say if if
we think everyone should be there, which
I'm also totally fine with. Um I would
just personally ask that it be on a
Tuesday.
>> And this doesn't stop chair any of us at
some point say, hey, you know what? We
need a special meeting. Just ask
specifically about this. Yep. And then
people can come to give that feedback
whether that's priority but it's just
for the general piece because you know
it's also it's helpful comments we need
to get the work done. So the comments
going to give us some guidance where it
start to work and then you know we hope
that they won't do what they put forth
and again you know we may not hit every
comment we may not hear as you said so
at least give us a road map but we won't
make every
one thing we can walk away
>> as much as we can
» I think to suggest we do this like in
two weeks like that we just
Y
>> get in. Let's do that meeting.
>> Especially knowing that if if the hope
is to get a facilitator, we're not going
to have one here in two weeks. So, we
might as well be efficient with their
time and utilize that
>> to get public on
>> I was just say, do we think putting a
timeline on that like
>> hour like you were saying? I feel like
you normally if we're here two hours
like I feel like two hours a long time
to you know
» but that's just
>> and I think it depends too on the the
cadence right where this is the first
one we may want to have that extra time
um I mean just because that this is
going to be the one where the most
people will likely show up
>> and [clears throat] you can also
encourage people for in interest of time
what they're you know whatever they can
submit their comments using this get it
out you know and then we And then that
takes it may not be in a whole hour and
a half, two hours, I don't know. So,
>> well, I mean, if only 10 people show up.
>> Yeah,
>> it might be shorter. Um, but I think
from a from a scheduling, just being
optimistic. Come on. [laughter] Um,
>> from a from a like public perception um
public need place, I think having that
two hours probably make at least for the
first one. Um, but that would bring me
back to do we think that the next
scheduled meeting is the right time and
is that enough time for city to get word
out and feel like we can make sure
people know.
>> So that's something that I have a lot of
strong feelings about. I feel like if we
just do one sort of introductory public
comment meeting, we are at risk of just
soliciting
the most tokenistic, most accessible
opinions because people who might have
scheduling issues, people like Amy who
have children at home in a full-time job
are not going to be able to attend that
one meeting that's in our regular
format. you know, we're not we're we're
at risk of not capturing a
wide enough or, you know, heartfelt
enough
group of public comment. And
>> I think that's the value of the email,
too.
>> But I I also understand majority of the
folks that I'm caring for don't have
easy email access or reliable email
access. And there's a fair amount of
work that goes into needing to get to a
computer and get someone's computer and
then checking the computer and all the
things. So, but I think that's a I think
that's a fair point.
>> The other thing else is use this first
meeting, get a gauge what it's like
before we decide if I know.
>> I I'll agree with that.
>> Yeah, because that way you can see,
okay, only one person show up and okay,
then we deal with that. But if we had
got a like, you know, line packed up
here, okay, we do need to have something
separate
>> on top of that.
>> I agree with that, you know.
>> Yeah.
Um the other thing I'll say and I don't
think we need to workshop this
uh to completion here is the committee
may want to do some amount of meeting
people where they are and getting
comment. Um
>> and so we don't have to do all of the
public comment gathering here. We may
want to reach out to maybe some
stakeholders who are interested in
posting maybe not all nine of you
because that might be overwhelming but
posting a contingency.
We do have some outreach experts here.
>> I fully support I fully support going
and meeting people where they are.
Obviously, it's my pretty much my entire
job.
>> Um so yeah, I think that's a great idea.
>> I had somebody reach out about a meeting
that happens every second Monday, a
leadership committee. Um uh
Jesse Arshbalt is the person who reached
out. And so I I uh that that might be a
good opportunity for a group of four of
us, like whatever it takes to not be a
public meeting that we didn't advertise,
right? You know, uh so that we're not
violating any laws. Um uh so like three
or four of us could go to a meeting like
that and hear what folks have to say. Um
I'd be happy to reach out to her
>> that the only one
>> was Monday. The one thing I would do
then you can just behind the scenes is
like set up some guidelines what we're
going to do if you're going to send me
and him out. What are things that we
could do or shouldn't do out there
because we don't have the group to back
us up. So yeah,
>> so he can set up some guidelines. Hey,
we only listen feedback. We're not
giving you opinions about anything that
>> I literally have that thing that the
city solicitor told us to say up on my
computer screen.
like the fear of God
>> that will please the city solicitor
>> and it's on record
too
solic
» so it sounds like uh we're in near
agreement that the next meeting should
be a public comment meeting. Is that
>> Yes.
>> accurate?
>> We need a motion to make that happen or
[clears throat] is that a I don't think
so. But
>> can we bundle the one hour time frame in
that motion?
>> So we we're thinking of limiting it to
one hour or are we thinking going our
schedule two hours?
>> I'm okay with two if
>> we could do.
>> No, you go too. I
>> was going to say we could do split
difference. Do one hour of comment and
then one hour of discussion of comment.
I'll do an hour half comment 30 minutes.
>> Sure. That's perfect.
>> Love it.
>> Nothing. It's not amenable.
» Yeah, we'll be doing
>> the chair.
If we publish that we are going to take
public comment um until say 6:30 um and
we get one person that shows up at
opening. Do we have to remain until 6:30
or is that
>> we'll publish it to be up to
>> okay
>> a particular amount of time. So I'll say
up to an hour and a half of public
comment
>> but you know I can print out any email
feedback. So
>> if we have let's say you know low this
is where you can read off a comment from
somebody.
>> So I actually have a question about the
email feedback just appreciating that
volume
>> and management of that like is there an
expectation that each email gets
acknowledged and addressed and if so if
we're getting a very large volume how we
want to navigate that or do we want to
cross that bridge when we get to it? So,
if I understand correctly, when somebody
sends in the email, they'll get
essentially a bounce back or not a
bounce back, but a response, automated
response saying, "Hey, we've
acknowledged your city staff is going to
bundle that
>> uh into a packet. Just send that to us
in bulk,
>> right? And then once it Sorry,
>> go ahead.
>> Did you have more to say?"
>> No, you um once we get that in bulk,
when do we do we review that at the next
meeting? Do we review those at a public
comment meeting? Like when do those get
looked at by us? Because I can imagine
if you know, say they're 20 emails every
couple of weeks, that's a lot of public
comment for us to manage and sort
through each meeting.
>> Can we have like
>> how does that
>> can we have that information archived?
And
>> it's all it has to be,
>> right? I I what I mean is like
for the express purposes of you know
like our our
review you know like outside of that way
we are truly capturing everything. But
if we're getting like 15 hate comments
and five comments from, you know,
stakeholders,
um, you know, we we can look, you know,
look through that database oursel and
say, "Okay, well, that's a hate comment
skip." You know,
>> I I'm guess I'm I'm hoping that I don't
as a committee, we don't have to deal
with any emails that don't apply to us.
you know, if it's something that's
inappropriate, something that, you know,
just talk about, you know, parking
committee doesn't come to us and we just
deal with what's here and then Yeah, it
probably makes it too. And then and
again, my I was wondering if it's
possible that maybe you and talk
separately. I'm actually more interested
in the themes that come [clears throat]
out. Sure. If 12 50 emails Paul has the
same theme about you know homeless
individuals on you know Cedar Street
okay then that's a different discussion
than reading every 15 you know 50 emails
right
>> so that could be a way for you folk to
figure out process identifying hey we've
noticed all the things that came out all
these feedback we have
>> so I I think you're absolutely right um
that is one but I also think that as
we're sending these out or we're getting
these emails as community members
reviewing them and then we are seeing
themes that that because I might not see
a theme that you may see or that Ben
might see um and then sharing that so
that it gets added to the agenda. I
think that's how we address it. So we
all
>> there's not like an expected we have to
have an individual response to each and
every
let's say depend on volume I mean I
don't have no idea what that you decided
to sh like each of us get five emails
take a look at what's in common
this
>> yeah I mean we can we can look at that I
mean I think once we understand the
volume
>> yeah keeping in mind that realistically
early on we're going to have probably
the largest volume Um and in that
instance I do actually think it would
and open to other suggest but I think if
we're reviewing all of those and I know
it's timeconuming and we're all
incredibly busy um but then again
everybody has a different perspective
you may pick up on a pattern that the
rest of us aren't and be able to say hey
can we add this to the agenda
>> so that not the next meeting the
following meeting um we have like that's
sort of making the basis of our agenda
moving forward is is okay these are the
themes we've gotten from public comment.
Here's what we've seen from the data.
Here's how we can start having
meaningful conversations to address
these themes and the data.
>> So, is that something that we could just
like self-direct if we had access to
this archive of emails? We could pour
over them, extract some themes, and if
any [clears throat] of us felt
passionately about a theme that we
encountered in the wild, we would be
like, "Okay, well, you know, let's bring
it to the advisory and hear what Alton
has to say." Well, and I think hear what
the committee has to say. Uh, [laughter]
>> yeah, I think if I'm understanding
correctly, Carol,
>> it will all have access to all the
emails. It'll be part of the packet.
>> I was planning to make it essentially
every week. I would
>> every email will be printed.
>> Well, I'll include it in your PDF
packet. You certainly aren't obligated
to print them out, but it will
eventually be part of the public record
of the work of this committee by being a
attachment to this packet. Great.
>> Will it be on the website or the general
public? Will he
>> Oh, great. Can we put something on the
email
um social media that whatever is emailed
to this address will become public
because
>> I just feel like that that would be
something that people might not be
immediately aware of.
>> But you should also be aware that
everything you email the city of Bangor
is public.
>> But you're right, not everyone has that
understanding. So that might be some
language we want to make sure we add to
the response email.
>> We can put it into the automated
response. Yep. Any
other questions or comments on public
comment?
So, next meeting will be public comment.
Following meeting, we'll get into our
regular routine. Do we want to talk
about ongoing or do we want to
start with
>> I really want to start getting into
Robin.
[laughter]
No sir, I would look at and once we get
that, we can go from there.
>> I'm in agreement.
>> Awesome. All right. Well, then moving on
to uh city staff info and data,
>> which Dr. Tony,
>> I would sucking it off. She can say
Bruce would do it.
>> I gave up my chair. We pulled another
one over and the three staff people all
tabled up and I can
>> disappear.
>> Don't do that.
>> Yeah, don't do that. You
>> Nothing would make me happy.
» [laughter]
» You're all
>> good.
>> Mr. chair,
if it pleases you and this committee and
my contemporary,
I thought that what we might do is I
could introduce the structure of the
memo and talk about the data sources
and then have David and Bruce talk about
the the data specifically
if that sounds like a good approach when
I can come in and kind of build out
whatever might be.
Okay.
>> So, in your memo here, we have compiled
what we know from city sources and
available sources that we are that we
commonly interact with. We were not able
to pull new raw data and analyze it in
preparation for today's meeting. So,
I'll preface this by saying we
understand that these are ongoing
conversations and we can drill down into
anything that you see here at any time.
So, we organized this data into five
domains to kind of create some buckets
um and give us a little bit of structure
for your discussion. So we talk about
the scope and characteristics of the
homeless population
um faces and places. We talk about uh
the conditions leading to homelessness.
We wanted to address some of your
questions regarding population movement.
And then there are two other domains
that we felt were really really chunky
and we could give you an entire meeting
just covering the homeless response
system and then also the individual and
community impacts. So at a later uh date
we'll we'll build all of those things
out for you. Um but we felt like there
was a lot here.
Um so to pull the different plans
studies and reports
I have listed them here and everybody
has a link so you can go in and you can
look at that source material. We've
given you the data in a very distilled
format. You can go back into all of
these documents and look for some
context if that is helpful. and we'll
also try to build that out for you here
if you um request it.
Some notes about data though and and I don't want to assume that everyone
is a data geek like me. Um but if many
of you are working in
um a field where you're touching social
issues, you might know that not every
data point is measuring the same thing
as the data point next to it. And and
homeless data is really no different. um
the geographic boundaries, the
populations, the encounter types, all of
these things mean that one number is not
always measuring the other number. Um,
and a good example of this is a one
night count of those that are sheltered
or unsheltered homeless is not also the
same number that you can report in any
other count of how many homeless
individuals we have in the city. And for
that same reason, whoever is collecting
the data also has their own geographic
scope and aim for that data. So they
might be measuring it a little bit
differently.
Our our continuum of care measures data
in a hub which for our hub is three
counties. Ponobskot County also collects
countywide data. The state collects
statewide data. And so at times I'm
giving you numbers that are not only
describing the city specifically, but
what we can offer is that potentially in
some of these numbers, you could create
some assumptions about to what degree
that number does describe the people
that come through here. If you know if
the city as a service center is
providing services then maybe a
countywide number describes
something related to the services that
are provided in the city.
We also talk about a couple of um
different terms um just to kind of make
sure that everyone has a good
foundation. Um the point in time count
when we talk about the point in time
count it's a one January night that a
bunch of volunteers and staff go out and
make contact with the number of
individuals that they are able to count
on a single night. Um it's so it's not
an estimate of of that total. Um we also
talk about service utilization. So these
are encounters and visits, shelter beds.
We're talking about capacity in a lot of
those measures.
Um, we think about data in terms of
unique people, but we understand that
you might have a unique person that
visits every service. And so they are
counted multiple times.
And so you're going to see numbers that
might describe the same people.
And then we talk about you know the
definition of homelessness is different
for many different uh sets of numbers.
So for the school their definition of
homelessness is lacking a fixed regular
nighttime residence. The HUD definition
of homelessness is not having a suitable
place for habitation. So in those ways
you have a number that describes a very
different condition of homelessness than
the other. And so then you might
compound some of that to say well what
about the data for those who are at risk
of homelessness again another data. So,
it's really important to just kind of
look at what is the data attempting to
describe and make sure that we um uh
ensure that we're not kind of dragging
that same definition of the data to
another data point because we could
>> is the variation in definitions or
whatever criteria they're using based on
their funding requirements because like
you would think well everybody want to
use HU definition because it's
equalizing playing field. But I
understand that some funding may say,
"Well, this is what I'm paying you money
for." That you have to look for how many
people and that's why they change
quality data to reflect that. So, do you
think that's the difference why people
are different in terms of what they're
looking for?
>> I think in some cases it can, like I
said, it it could be that the intended
use of the data is different from who
collects it. Okay. But [clears throat]
another reason could be that the data um
that they're looking for
is is compounded or the approach to
collecting that data occurs at different
times in which your concept of what is
an equitable measure is different. So
that definition might have occurred many
years down the line in you know a best
practice. For example,
>> Samson and Hut are a good example of
that. in the sense that have different
definitions of the two different funding
structures but a lot of times you end up
with over overlapped requirements on the
person
>> and you know and and not to be cynical
about but I know sometimes the data
you almost use the data to answer
pre-existing
conclusion you have to say that oh see
the data shows like 100% of these people
all involved in crime when or 100% are
you know medical issues 100% involved
mental health because you look for that
data versus someone who basically have a
neutral slate to see okay what is the
difference what is the variation so I
think that's something just again at the
end of the day it depends on who's
asking for the data and tally it
>> right question why they're collecting
that data
>> right and in some cases the data is due
to I need to go I need to go and find
the answer to the question so I'm
essentially
>> creating an experiment right I'm doing a
test and I'm getting the data and
you know, to to your point, um you know,
the the definition of homelessness for
youth lacking a fixed regular nighttime
residence,
that definition takes into account
education
and grades and the things that you need,
right? Like a fixed regular nighttime
residency, those things. Um, so I I
would like to leave it there and I will
come back in if you have questions, but
I know Bruce and and David have some
really good um data here also. Um, and
if you have any specific questions about
some of the data that I pulled, go from
there.
>> Any Sure.
>> Do you want to start?
>> Glad to. Yeah. Um, so I know you're all
busy. So, I did today I just printed out
some of the data that I had. Um,
just so you can look at what our
community action team has been
collecting for data. Um, and I'll give a
little bit of background on our BCAT
just for those of you that aren't
familiar with the program. We found it
to be tremendously beneficial at the
city level and at the police department.
And if you've already seen this uh or
you don't need feel free to just link
the paper.
» Yeah. So it's the acronym is uh Bangor
community action team.
>> Okay. So this was developed in 2023 by
the city. It was more of a collaboration
between public health and the police
department. Um what we found at the
police department was uh more and more
of our officers were responding
to uh calls for homelessness uh mental
health um
concerns and things that
people weren't particularly comfortable
speaking with a law enforcement officer
uniform. We developed this civilian
response team and it's essentially it is
the boots on the ground um
for the city and you see numbers you
look through that first couple of pages
not to um
focus too much on the numbers but you do
see I'm sorry to go left or right it's
all go month to month of down so um you
do see an increase in new people
typically in the summer months
and then the numbers tend to uh drop in
the colder months of the year which I
think makes sense. People are using
utilizing warming shelters. Um some
people will leave our area and then
return when the weather changes.
So just what you're looking at on these
first couple pages is calls for our
BCAT. These are all non-emergent calls
and uh so if a police officer typically
at BCAD is not being sent to these calls
that is the breakdown of the types of
calls that they go on for all calls for
the month. Diversions.
What's diversions? diversions are for us
somebody identifies selfidentifies as
not being from Bangor they do not want
to be in Bangor they have a place to go
they'd like to get home and then we
verify that they're welcome so we do not um complete a diversion unless
the person has a place to go and and is
welcome there
>> how do you get home
>> uh typically we coordinate through
public health we'll set up a ride bus
>> yeah bus a ride has provided a lot of
rides as well has place to go. So that's
what the diversions are and you will see
u those numbers tend to increase as the
weather
gets colder I guess.
>> Do you have a sense of diversion? How
many of them a local diversion like a
place in someone called?
>> Yeah. So they started in the if you sort
of the third page I think happened the
pie chart they they do actually this was
a new addition. They they weren't
collecting this
I went back 12 months for the first set
of data and then the second set of data
with the pigraphs. They only started
collecting this back in December. But if
you have a chance to look through that,
you can see the breakdown of of housed
unhoused from Bangor not from Bangor.
And this is self-reporting. So these
people are identifying that it's not a
determination. It's what the person that
they're speaking with is
um so what are the limiting factors on
supporting someone who is in this
diverent category? I mean if they're
from
California, do we finance the bus ticket
for them to go to California?
» I don't know if we've gone that far, but
we do go far. Yeah, if something
usually
on the other side and they want out find
them away.
» Look at this pie chart. Looks like
almost every month is
not from Bangor,
>> right? Yeah.
>> Can I just like just because a lot of
these folks I've also interacted with
like you said it's self-reported
demographic.
>> Yeah.
>> So
patients may not identify as being from
Bangor and then I talked to them they
spent 10 out of the 12 months for a long
period of time. They were just like well
I was born in Connecticut but I've lived
here for
>> Connecticut. I've lived here for like 10
years. I was in Portland but now I'm
back. So I think again like when we were
talking about data
I think it's always important for us to
look at the way questions are asked how
folks are responding how we're
collecting it. Um
>> well actually that's a good point. So
when you say not from Bangalore is it
mean that I'm not talking about where
you born but are you currently from
Bangor area? I mean I I I hear that I
hear that you may have been from
Bangalore because you're born here and
then you stay here for 23 years in to me
you're not from Bangalore. It's because
you you have it living here,
>> right? So I think that's the piece with
this data. know like I've worked really
closely with BCAT over the years and it
just depends how somebody interprets the
question
>> how it's asked
>> and how it's asked and understand that
ECAT's not collecting this information
to publish it in like a research article
but like the the variable you know we're
not like making sure the questions are
like very specific necessarily so
>> assistance will ask you to leave an
account 30 days before their consumer
resistance
get assistance from
>> VA does also ask for your last stable
housing address. So again, people are
asking the question for the data in a
way that is helpful for them.
>> The last stable could be your level
>> could be.
>> Okay.
>> Can I ask you a question? It's not
necessarily relevant to the data. Um
what do you do for foreign nationals
that are
being do you kind of population a lot
and what sort of protocol does that I'll
have to get back I'll have to get back
to the committee on u if we have had an
interaction with a foreign national how
that went um but I'm not sure I'm not
sure on that one I don't know you need
to
>> I I could just anecdotally I have not
run into many situations where folks are
from um our foreign national are trying
to get back to their home country.
But just because I haven't encountered
it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
>> Not in Bangor anyway. That has happened
in Boston. We usually work with the
embassy.
>> Yeah.
>> So we identify someone truly I mean I
remember one person was German and we
work with the embassy
of transportation.
>> Yes.
>> He was a German national astron. And
then sometimes state department but
again that's New York City and DC where
tons of those whereas here you really
yeah you know this is the end of the
line so to speak from rehound that
people usually don't go up this way
usually
so
[laughter]
» yeah so I mean this is just the data
that was collected by I didn't want to
interpret it I just wanted to provide
the data
the opportunities data that we provide
Great. Thank you.
>> Questions about the BAP structure. Am I
to email you or is there someone else
directed?
>> You certainly can.
>> And you know, I was going I was thinking
when the committee was talking um I can
when I get back to the police station,
uh talk about members of the committee
would be interested in getting into a
car with ECAD or just getting to know
them. It's a four person group. They're
great. Nobody had his experience with
him, but
>> yeah, I would have to think about it.
>> Question. Um, with this data, how do you
have an idea how many people released
from incarceration that ended up being
in the house?
>> Released from incarceration.
>> Yeah. Like, you know, you're done. You
just got released. You got picked up and
then now, okay, you're done. You got,
you know, drops charge. I presume they
don't send you home only if you have a
house. They said you're done, right? you
open the door and would do we have an
idea how many people fits in that
category. I don't it would be anecdotal
u I don't have a percentage but I know
what happens right now
>> and as far as you know currently there's
no system where the jail would call
somebody and say listen we have so and
so here we're about to uh release he has
no place to go uh can you guys
facilitate him going some we don't have
that structure in place not yet um I am
in the process of reaching out to those
places like fresh start the jail and
those places so that when they know that
someone may be going on the streets,
they can get a hold of me and I can help
give them resources wherever they may
have to go.
>> It'd be great if you find something, you
know, just curious. I'm just curious
because
>> I will say
with when it comes to releases too even
with like any attempt at a system like
often you don't know when the release is
coming and you're going to get released
at like 6:00 a.m. unexpectedly. I mean
just it would be great if they could get
a packet with the local
>> they just even my card and they call me
the next day whatever it
>> work
like it's like in some cities I know
like
>> like New York Rikers people get dropped
off at this bus stop and somewhere in
Queens everyone get a bus metro card or
whatever it was back then and then
couple bucks and that's it. So that's
the point of drop off and many of them
have no place to go and then you're on
your own. results. I don't I think here
probably Okay, you're done. The doors
open. You can go.
>> I do think the jail could provide data
if requested that would show that maybe
u based on inmate numbers uh
incarcerated individuals who identify as
transient. That's the code that they use
when they file trans.
>> Yeah, it may be not a huge number. I
just don't know what that number is. I
agree that it would probably quite
advisory.
» I'll try to reach out to the popular
county jail
>> because my supposition is if they
inoculate support they almost you're
setting up for recidivism in sense of
like you know in trouble because you're
forging those dollars.
>> And I'll also say like having worked
pretty closely with a lot of the folks
at the jails because a lot of folks I
care for are in and out of the PCJ. Um,
if that's not happening, it's probably
not because of I'm not saying that
you're saying that, but it's it's often
not because it's a lack of desire on the
jail side. It's
>> again like terrible. Yeah. System and
structure.
>> My understanding like you know Mo is
quite invested in that kind of stuff.
But
>> if it's not there, you can't do
anything.
>> Yep. I think also if we reached out to
the main prisoner re-entry network to
find out whether they are um supporting
or raising certain data that could, you
know, highlight a trend that you might
find helpful. We could see if they have
anything available. I don't I don't know
if they do. That's
>> a good point, Robin. So there is a uh
state program supervised community
confinement program which is you're
released into a community uh with
housing and I believe it's 90 days I
could be wrong. I believe it's 90 days
with housing and then you're released um
after the 90 days and and that does
happen routinely in Bangor
>> through different programs.
>> Is there like a different street name
for that? And [laughter] I don't know
how to describe it, but like certainly
I provide a lot of um prescribe a lot of
Suboxone. So as folks get released,
they'll walk in and I usually will say
like, "Are you on any release
conditions?" And they'll be like, "I'm
on a bed to bed." And I understand that
bedtoed means I was released to a
residential treatment program and as
long as I'm attending that residential
treatment program, I'm good. I don't
have to be in jail. If I bounce, I have
to go back to jail. Is there like a
street name for supervised community
confinement? Um,
>> well, they go by the SEC.
» And so if folks at Fresh Start might be
part of
>> Yes, that
feedback leading the way.
>> This sounds like a group probably gonna
want to solicit for feedback honestly
because
Now is down does the main prison
re-entry network with that? You were
just asking about that. Are they the
ones supervising the SECP or is that the
board?
>> I don't know the answer to that.
>> Typically, we're notified if somebody is
being uh accepted in the SEC pro SCTP
program. uh where we are notified
through state probation officers that
person is being
at a particular address in
>> that could be a really valuable group of
stakeholders as the POS because a lot of
our folks certainly unhoused folks that
are on release conditions whether I know
like SCCP that are staying at fresh
start are leading the way um there's
only a few poss like
>> Chad Reynolds Yeah, Chad and
>> he Chad's overseas leading the way.
>> Yes. because I've had a lot of folks
that leading away and often
if they're gonna, you know, folks that
have been previously unhoused are
sometimes more motivated to do an SECP
auction um because it also gives them a
space
to be in early recovery um in a more
stable and supportive environment
because you can imagine if you're
released from incarceration, you've had
a period of sobriety and you're released
back to being unhoused. it's really
difficult to maintain sobriety or
recovery or whatever term works for that
individual um while living outside. So
many of our folks do opt for that and
the POS have been very supportive I know
and really really helpful for people um
and I'd be really curious like
anecdotally what they've seen as helpful
for folks that have been previously in
housed has worked and what hasn't
worked.
>> I do have his email address. I'd be glad
to reach out to him. There's one other
one.
>> Rob, works for DHS.
>> Okay,
>> anyways, doesn't matter. I can find it,
but
>> that would be great. Thank you.
>> And I think it's in the hyperlinks that
Robin sent out, but uh I also brought in
a printed copy of the city's
homelessness crisis protocol. Um,
and so I don't know if uh if the group
had an opportunity to do that yet as
well, but uh
>> somewhere
in
I don't see any
>> so it's actually it's actually on the
city's website as well. It's one of our
public facing policies. So if you go to
the city's website, police department,
you can find it listed under the
policies.
Um,
and this was a mandated policy that was
created by the attorney general in 2020
four, I believe. uh and it was mandated
that all police departments in the state
have a policy in place to address um you
know I think primarily what we were
seeing was unhoused individuals um
flooding the jails and it was uh for
low-level crimes that it was just a real
challenge for for the individuals that
were being incarcerated and then also
for the jails that were being flooded
with folks who were um you know being
held for a series of low-level crimes
that we were seeing on a regular basis.
And so the protocol
is on the city site
that I will just highlight briefly uh
that there were the crimes that were
identified as if if a police officer
interacts with an individual and that
individual identifies as unhoused. Um
using a definition that um Robin had
mentioned earlier, the definition in
policy is a person who is experiencing
homelessness that lacked fixed regular
and adequate nighttime residence. That's
the policy definition. Um and the crimes
that were listed criminal trespass
conduct indeed conduct
marinating in public possession of
scheduled drugs or drinking in public um
when possible. And um you know there's
obviously provisions that allow for
different actions from discretion from
the officers when possible.
>> We try to refer somebody to resources as
opposed to jail.
>> Yeah.
>> And um
so I mean that's that's obviously
something that I think affects law
enforcement statewide,
>> but um it's something that was developed
by the training general's office as a
mandated policy that does sort of play
into working with this committee. Can I
ask this? Oh, sorry.
>> I was just going to ask a question for
specific to Bangor. When officers kind
of come across this situation, do you
know what resources get offered to
folks?
>> So, I brought the
>> You like set it up for me.
>> That's right. You probably saw this in
here. So, these are the resource cards.
If you haven't had one of them, I
thought I'd bring them in just just so
everybody could could take a look.
>> Super
these five.
>> Yes. Yep. I actually grabbed those. That
was the new one.
>> Y came in.
» I can bring
>> I think I brought
>> them.
» I got to update our new our address.
Bridge Clinic. That's the old one.
>> This is a great committee for if there's
changes or updates, let me know. We'll
get those. I'm involved.
>> Do you ever utilize resources
um like out of state? So meaning if
somebody says
a bed somewhere like you don't so or
they're in crisis in here is full and
can't get in you know out of state New
Hampshire or whatever may have that
availability.
I'm just curious or you know do we I
mean I've seen many situations where
people need it right then and there
can't get it and they're just put back
out on the street and then event you
know people having to advocate to get
them elsewhere and it ends up being out
of state. Um
but a lot of people don't have that
support to get them there. You know what
I mean? But I don't know. I just know of
a lot of those places out of state that
do they're looking to pull and help. And
sometimes to get that help, you can't be
here. You know what I mean? You it just
you you get it here, you leave here,
you're out back where it all is. And so
to get them out where they can really do
the work, you know, I'm just curious to
find that resource to get them. There's
a better one. You can question.
>> Yeah. I mean, when we're working with
people on the streets, if someone wants
to be in recovery and wants to do
something like that, and there's nowhere
around here that we can get them in. Um,
BCAT has done this and and um then Joe
Archel from the other place also gets
people really um going in that direction
too and a ride and options.
>> Um, and we'll take them down to St.
Mary's. Yeah. And so they'll go to the
hospital there, then get into detox
>> kind of like realistically. Obviously,
what we're saying is there are fewer
detox beds in reality than what it
appears to be in the state. And it is
there are surprisingly a large
proportion of those are in Bangor, which
is a beautiful thing. Um there's a lot
there's often a wait to detox. If you
present to one of the hospitals, it is
surprisingly hard to uh stay for detox.
And similarly, so like St. Mary's, we'll
just use St. Mary's as an example. Often
we can get folks a ride to St. Mary's,
but if they don't get admitted, there's
no way for them to come back.
>> Make a call down there.
>> Yeah.
>> I think the challenge is
if you're sending someone for other
program or family. I It's we've seen
this. We've actually done it. We sent
pictures back to their family in New
York State.
>> Unless you have
intervention along the way, you can
easily just basically look like you
shipped them and well, they're not
dealing with it because they get lost.
>> Yeah.
>> Um so I remember this patient we
actually had was um um home um was
basically able to contact his
counterpart in Portland who met him at
the bus station. So he had like an hour
to kill where he basically talked to him
about treatment. So by the time he gets
on the bus and by he got back to New
York he was ready to get treatment.
Otherwise he would just
get a lot of labor intensive stuff.
>> Yeah.
» And really I mean ideally you'd like to
have the time to do that but not
everyone have.
I would just quick notice to those of us
here who are providers or working in the
services or in outreach that something
to look out for is patient brokering. I
know that um during my sort of work um
at together place that is one of the
issues that we ran into were these sort
of brokering agencies that come through
and their job is to recruit patients and
um form them to an outofstate recovery
program. And if you it doesn't take a
lot of research into this practice to
find out that a a lot of states have
outright banned it. Um and b like the
federal government has taken an interest
in trying to to limit it and um
it you know obviously you know I can't
outright declare that it's dangerous but
I think if you talk to our our
stakeholders and our friends on the
streets you'll realize that they think
it is. You'll realize that when they
interacted with these patient brokers
they did not feel safe. And so you have
to be careful when you're working with
outside providers because you have no
way to hold them to account if they're
>> Yeah, usually you do that if you have
like a concrete plan that they will take
the patient. They vetted everything
patient I want to go to agency so and so
and that everything is discussed that
kind of it'll just facilitate that. But
I I agree with you. You don't be like,
"Hey, I got a great program out in the
middle of nowhere that we like to get
you into it."
>> And that's the format that a lot of
these patient program structures use.
Like I know that during my research of
it when we were trying to investigate
wanted to see who was doing it here in
Bangor by the way
>> um was that like
some of their affiliates are widely
reported to put people into treatment
facilities with no running water. So you
know it's like
>> that doesn't thrill me. Um
>> so that's one of the things that I worry
about. I know Melissa back to what you
were saying about like we used to have
project hold
um
Bangor do that for a brief period back
do that for like a teeny like a really
little bit of time um [clears throat]
is are they still doing that
» the water
>> used to be
» [laughter]
>> my daughter.
>> Hey, does um I know Bango PD many folks
get CIT training places. Do they get any
orientation training working with
homeless individuals so that everyone
has some competency some basic knowledge
of what challenges they face?
>> I I [clears throat] can answer that
question because I paid for staff trauma
informed training a couple months ago.
So, I know that they've received that.
But what about
>> that though?
>> Yeah, the BCAT. I'm talking about
officers in general.
>> Our our trainings are typically online
now. So, you know, one hour,
>> but you didn't even get it. What What is
it? What is it? I mean, I haven't seen
the training, so I don't know what it
is.
>> Last year's was either last year's or
mandatory training. Yeah.
>> I'm just curious because the thing is
also like if they have I mean just like
anybody if they have a great response
with police offic
but they have really bad interaction it
doesn't matter what program I have
they're going to say I don't trust you
because you know this is how I got you
know suckered you know last time. So I
just want to you know um see what
programs the Pango PD has. And the
second question is
do we know if um other jurisdiction
around us here have similar approach
because like if you guys take this human
humanistic way of looking at but other
jurisdiction take a much more black and
white approach that means we're going to
get hit you know more people want to
come here because this is how people are
treated
right I try to avoid police lingo I
might have just done it a minute ago
when I say mandatory training so when I
say mandatory training that is statewide
so it's mandated by the criminal justice
academy and if if it's a topic that's
required or mandated
>> y then it's mandated for all law
enforcement so everybody in the state
would training
>> and the interesting thing about the cip
training there's a couple of things here
um they're mandated to have at least 20%
of the force across the state so Bangor
has a little bit higher of a number on
that because their force can you can
take the time off
>> okay
>> but there are two actual trainings
there's an eight hour training and
there's a 40hour Yeah.
>> CIT.
>> Yeah.
And most of the most of the
officers are taking the hour.
>> Yeah.
>> You were talking about training specific
to dealing with homelessness issues,
right? As opposed to the CSS example.
>> Again, I'm not saying they need to take
a CIT like course, but I'm just saying
like
>> what education do they have about some
of the challenges homeless people, you
know, can and encounter the perception
of police, perception of law
enforcement? How does that, you know,
how do we bridge that gap? and things
like that is that you kind of some of
role as well, right, is to kind of be
that in between and have a little bit
more specialized experience. It's a
really good point actually. Uh, and that
was we did the level of trust with law
enforcement. I do understand that
sometimes wearing a uniform does sort of
put people at a
more uncomfortable I suppose in
interacting with us. ECAT really was
very helpful.
>> PD, you guys also used to have that
community liaison officer, Officer Ash,
and that was wildly helpful. Um,
>> she was
>> I think she moved on to like a different
opportunity, right? I don't think it was
anything
>> was a military obligation,
>> but in that position is something that I
know Chief Hway liked to fill. He has
talked several times about, you know,
stepping up a few months ago. But
>> it made a huge difference with our folk
that were on our own house and also just
like community stakeholders like Officer
Ash would call me all the time
>> if there was like a theme [laughter]
with either a group or a human.
>> She liked research as well. Police also
have two mental health on hospital,
right? You guys still have that?
>> Yeah. So they they're very helpful,
>> right? And there's the five officers on
our team that
>> options [clears throat]
options are at least exposed to a global
homeless person.
>> I can tell you they got a pretty good
>> Yeah.
>> And I can tell you having
worked in Boston, the community
perception of Boston PD of our unhoused
folks was not great. having worked on
the street for so long, our on house
population actually typically has great
interactions with Bangor PD and BCAT.
>> Um, and another other towns that are
surrounding Bangor folks do not always
have as good of an inter as they do with
Bangor PD. Um, so I I you guys have done
a lot of work to make that happen. It's
very appreciated.
>> Do you prefer Dr. Tony for this purpose?
just
um
what I would say is that um just aside
from our
research from our experts, but like it
is very important to me that at some
point in our
12 month scope here that we have an
agenda item discussing um what the
police interactions look like with our
unhoused and what the cultural compet
competency levels are for law
enforcement.
um on the unhoused because I think that has a major major major impact and
I think that what you said um
is very telling like
you know unhoused people Mr. smart are
just like any other demographic of
people. I mean, if anything, um, they're
more due to this because they have to be
street smart on a daily basis to
survive. So, they have key interactions,
even if they're tokenistic interactions,
right? Like one bad apple poisoning a
bunch, uh, it creates adversarial
perception against all of the services
in Bangor and it pushes them deeper into
addiction and deeper into isolation, um,
and deeper into mental distress. So that
is something that I really want to best
study at some point because I think it
plays an outsized impact.
>> I often say like the interaction with
law enforcement and also first responder
medics and stuff like that if it's a
good spot my job is a whole lot easier
because I'm not spending all my time
fighting that
um emotional toll from a bad interaction
with law enforcement.
So I think I mean really they do a good
job with you know and like I said I said
I notic that here also places they it
makes really makes my life a lot
>> in the interest of time I want to make
sure Bruce has a chance to talk about
his information [laughter]
>> you off sir
» you have opportunity as well
>> absolutely I mean I was just going to go
off I mean I work very closely with them
and they're just a wonderful team too
and they do.
Um just to give you a little overview of
what we're doing in community public
health community services. Um I'll start
with community services is we have a
city outreach worker which right now
starts August 1st. Um and that person
will be going out on the streets um
working closely I think with PATH going
to the places like the brick church and
the well and these places and building
relationships and um starting to work on
housing with people. Um
>> it was a full-time position.
>> It was full-time position. Yeah. I think
the last person that held that position
I think housed
I think it was between 10 and 14 people
last year.
>> Um They're doing case work as well.
>> They are. Yeah. So they'll take a person
right up the streets and work with them
right through till they get housed in
>> uh then and then TR and then we have
after that we also have a housing
stabilization navigator um for eviction
prevention. So what and I held that
position before
this person just took over. Um, in the
year that I did that position, I had
over 170 referrals
and I had I we
forgotten I think 100 of those referrals
and I helped I think it was I have my
dad right here. Um, but what that is
going in and building a relationship
with the landlord,
>> right? and building the relationship
with the tenant and trying to come up
with a solution where we're gonna help
these people stay housed.
>> Housing diversion.
>> Housing divers. Right. So, um I would go
in and build that relationship with um
the landlord, see what I could do for
his on his part, talk to the tenant, see
what I could do for his part, see if we
could get into some middle ground, if we
could save the housing or if we could uh
or we would have to try to help that
person move on to a safer place. um bel
sometimes it was finding rehousing that
person.
Yeah.
>> So
>> yeah, go ahead.
>> Does that take I'm assuming that takes
the format of also maybe some referrals
to services like RAP and general
assistance or is it completely
independent of that? um the grant that
we worked under and I think is still
working under that for the next year um
had had its own money um under that
grant to be able to help people um with
back rent um help them if they were in
eviction. So going forward will they
have their own funds?
>> No.
>> And will in that case will they be
following on that those programs?
>> Well, I think we we always looked into
those programs too. It wasn't just that
we were there where are the two shelters
also have diversion funds so they help
people also stay stabilized in their
apartment um along with GA right um so
depending on the situation
>> street has a diversion fund yeah Janice
um works there and then Maria does it at
the banker shelter
>> I can say I've been working more closely
with the diversion program than
typically for what I do you know usually
it's GA and local searches and things
trying to find that. But recent most
recently I've been working with
diversion programming and keeping people
housed. Um which is is great.
>> Oh, sorry.
>> No. So adding to I mean we've worked
together to avoid evictions and keep
people housed. I think the bigger the
bigger thing on that is it come you can
only do so much and then if people fire
people, right? Like you get them in and then they are trying to help them
with their cleaning, trying to keep it,
but they're not housing the rest of the
unhoused.
>> That's the gap.
>> And yeah, and then they say, "Oh, never
mind. I'm in. I don't want you anymore."
and then they're backed out because
they've, you know, they've made
themselves or they're smoking in the
unit or they're trashing the unit or
things are happening, right? We've
worked hard to keep them, but then they
fire their workers and that's like our
biggest gap as far as housing to keep
them housed. the most recent like I'll
use is the 10 we recently helped in a
new project and I have one success story
left because we've busted our tail and
I'm not you know meet with them and do
all the things but those services and
people quit right so people walk away
they're working they oh I'm done I quit
and now we can't hire can't hire to it
in the meantime trying to hang on to
them trying to personally work with them
too but you can only do so much and then
that it's that service that's there's a gap there.
>> I mean, in Portland, they just hired, I
think, three retention navigators.
>> So, those retention navigators would
fill that gap a little bit, right? Like
where you would be able to
>> um
the case worker work, they got housing,
work with them for a little bit, and
then make that pass off to their
retention navigator.
>> But you're right. I mean, tenants,
>> those nine people that are back out now
have another cabin in,
>> right?
But that makes us nine, it's
harder to house them anywhere. Right.
And I when I see people I do the
hearings if they have denials I'll do
the hearings and say okay give me all
your resource like things that are going
to help you in these next few years and
let's make a list like I want to help
you but I feel like I'm putting you in
the midst of the US.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Like you need people in your
fighting and not fall into this.
>> I'm still fighting with people you know
for some of the people that I've
>> question for both of you. Well, from
your work and observation, are there
certain characteristics of clients that
you know this is going to be easier to
get this person services with keeping
them house on house versus someone that
you know you have to spend more resource
because the thing is
>> we you know we at the end of day it's
going to be resource at the end of day.
So, so this one person I can keep Amy
out but I'm spending like 15 people
around her trying to keep her house two
you know four months at a time. Yeah.
>> Yes. I kept a house, but I also missed
the opportunity to take care of someone
who's now vulnerable and I never got to
them because they were willing to get
help. And
>> triage combat triage. Now you understand
that we have a path team that does that
out on our streets here in Bangalore,
right? We have the options team that is
also on our street. We wanted to try to
fill a gap of trying to make it so
people weren't becoming
>> Yeah. homeless if we could because we we you know I mean in that year that I
worked there I saved over 100 people's
housing. Yeah.
>> Right.
>> Which or or found them new housing.
>> Um so like that could have been another
100 people on the streets
>> because I could see people who are
somewhat receptive but just struggling
with identifying resourc
» and um versus someone who needs more
intensive stuff. That's where
>> these are these are intensive people. A
lot of them what I
street that's kind of what I do personal
experience.
>> A lot of the folks that I care for that
have either been chronically unhoused or
have like cycled through housed and
unhoused. We know that these folks are
disproportionately affected by severe
persistent mental illness. They're
struggling with substance use. Many of
them have had fall into brain injury
categories, whether it's because of
overdose or assault or all the reasons
that people can acquire brain injury.
And when we house them in a new place,
they're navigating how do I stay
connected to my recovery provider, my
mental health provider, how do I get
there? Typically, as people get housed,
their housing navigators pull back. And
even with peer supports, Bangor is,
believe it or not, a really
geographically tricky city to navigate
if you don't have a vehicle.
>> It costs money. It's very timeconuming
to take the bus. The walking routes are
really tricky. So, if you have
>> Yeah, if you have someone that can't
transport you to your appointments and
you don't qualify for links because you
live on a bus line, you start to fall
away from all of the folk that we're
getting able to help you get housed. So
I think looking at posthousing support
there's great opportunity for us to be
more creative with how we provide that
support and transportation is huge piece
of it.
>> One of the things like some research I
looked at is um
for [clears throat] people who have been
institutionalized all their lives
whether it's in jail incarceration
hospital they stand a high risk of not
knowing what to do outside because
everyone's been taking care of for them
whether they want to or not. suddenly
they have being forced to fend for
themselves. Some people actually want to
go back to jail, want to go back to a
hospital because of the fact that it's
easier. Uh and not because they don't
want to because it's so tough for them
to navigate. You need you need a PhD to
navigate some of this stuff and even
then it's not that easy.
>> So I think that's where you know if
someone I mean I can almost guarantee if
a patient comes to me and she said I've
been in the hospital for like 40 years
on my 50 years of life that person is
going to have a hard time. And many of
our folks, we have great compassion for
[clears throat]
young people that have struggled with
homelessness and we see generational
homelessness. And when people turn 18,
we're like, you should have figured it
out on your own somehow, even though
nobody taught you how to do these
things. And I've worked with folks long
term that get housed, they don't know
how to do their laundry because no one's
ever taught them because they were
unhoused since they were 14.
>> Again,
right? and they're 25 now and they've
lost housing 18 times because they can't
keep their unit clean because no one's
caught them cleaning their unit or
triage
even people that are right%
>> that you see the generations like they
now the their kids are in housing right
but they had these issues beforehand and
now and you know we really try to work
with them to say okay what you know yes
the t is you know we don't want to make
you you on house like we need to keep
your house this house is unsanitary What
are we going to do? How are we going to
do it? Do I feel like because of certain
lack of services like we are now a
little bit of everything, right? I'm not
just the, you know, the property
manager. I'm also
>> similar to a case worker, you know, a
PSS worker because I'm like, okay, you
windex that, I'll show you how to index
this, right? I'll go in on boots on the
ground and do the work with them, but
>> it's not really the job, right? Um but
we are all trying to work together to
keep keep it and you know it's it's
difficult.
>> So I know some agencies each of them do
different things like educate how look
at um you know getting housing um get
assistant you know assistance support
whatever it is but there's no organized
city efforts to say that we have a
series of you know uh educational events
that you know uh purple street may want
to tag into and we can support them and
things like that. So because um it's
really kind of fe for all whatever
agency wants to do all is that correct?
Well, I think every agency has a
different mission, right? I mean, some
are work with low barrier people, low
barrier situations and some are more
high barrier.
>> And layering all of that on is like
staffing, funding, all the things
agency. I was going to offer at a a
future meeting that we bring to you
a ecosystem map of the current services.
>> That would be cool.
>> Um that you might be able to draw lines
between the agency, the service, or the
pathway that someone might navigate.
um just to understand how the system
currently functions for someone that is
actively
you know navigating through that to try
to see if you can identify some
weaknesses. Does the um city bank
currently have any like a forum where
all the agency provide homeless care can
get together one you know to just
discuss things?
>> Typically that would be through the
continuum of care
>> coordinator we meet uh weekly
>> um
>> for a camp meeting which would be the
people that are outside and then we also
meet for coordinated entry. That's a
meeting where anyone that has done an
assessment for a coordinated entry
system would go into that and then we
would talk to about them um when it for
vouchers that are available. No, but I'm
talking about all the homeless agencies
getting together as group to, you know,
um just have a discussion to say, "Okay,
these are services we Okay, so if you're
doing that, I figure a way to get my
people to help, you know, go to you and
get services so they can all coordinate
services because I I get the feeling
sometimes we have too many agencies
providing just coordinated care like
someone's doing something without
coordinating and then we lose
>> I can say that from my insight. Yeah. in
the recovery community that we do keep a
pretty close eye on each other. I mean,
if anything, the patient brokering
situation was a good example because we
were able to tap our network of other
recovery agencies and shelters and say,
"Hey, did someone strange come by and
talk to your clients and say, "We'll
take you to California to have a VIP
recovery experience." They're like,
"Yeah, some something like that hit."
So, we keep we do math with each other
about available recovery beds. And
you're right that it is probably more of
a free-for-all than it deserved to be.
>> But what I will say too is there's a lot
of agencies that on paper offer a
service that in reality is not
accessible. So when you're looking at
who the stakeholders are, the list looks
this long. In reality, it's this long
>> and
it's really difficult to coordinate in a
efficient and effective way among
multiple agencies.
It's like coordination maybe I'm using
the so and I'm going to take my other
hat disaster hat for we used to have
this thing called a voluntary
organization active disaster where
basically pull different agency involved
in human human service work and you have
the focus on collaboration cooperation that we basically would meet
regularly to say okay this is service we
can provide blah blah blah blah and we
actually call people out and say okay
you said you have this list but are you
able to really do this so people can
discuss this as a group not just say but
this is take four words of you know
faith that that's exactly what you do so
we can say okay uh how I mean you saying
you can provide this case management how
often are you doing that can you do all
that can you reality do you think this sustainable program I mean we put
[clears throat] people on the spot is
within that group
>> and then that way everyone knows you
know you said the case management knows
exactly what you know sometimes would
call but that's the informal network you
need a formal
>> composite to say everyone has a clearing
house of stuff that we know exactly
>> where folks can um try to at least ask
those questions. I think there's great
opportunity to that. And I also will say
I've been in some of those we have like
somewhat of that situation going on
right now because of the HIV outbreak
with regular meetings with stakeholders.
And even when
>> you're on the ground and you know that
that's not happening when you do call
folks out,
>> you know,
>> they don't always acknowledge that what
they're saying they're doing isn't what
they're doing. Well, I think there is
incredible opportunity for that um as an
intervention.
>> And I would want to enjoin Amy's point
about how sometimes mostly incomplete
good faith when it comes to like the
banker agencies, people say one thing
and then do the other. But when it comes
to constructing like a food web of what
services are available, I think um
there's sort of an informal question of
available to who that is super super
important and super relevant to why we
have so many people who are not over
openly not seeking shelters, who are
openly not seeking services. One thing I
learned from my outreach because I try
to reach people who I feel are not being
reached by others. So that's
transgender, J, gay, queer individuals,
black and brown individuals. And one
thing that I heard particularly from um
transgender individuals in recent
discourse was we're not going to stay at
shelters because when we stay at
shelters, we're misgendered, we're
touched, and violent things are said
about us. We're not allowed to use the
women's facilities. Um, and so it's like
I could role playing as them cross off
half of the food web right now if I
looked at look at it because I had some
issues I didn't want to go.
>> And I think even for people without any
specific issues if I go to shelter I'd
be taken advantage of. I'd be bullied
and all kind makes me just I don't want
to go. So I mean we see that even for
folks nothing else going on. the fact
that I'm a new kid on the block. They
also have on me.
>> Well, that's a marginaliz marginalized
position too. New homelessness, not your
streets smart develop.
>> Yeah,
>> but Bruce
whatever whatever final points you can
get across
>> um yeah, I mean we have general
assistance at the city obviously and
that they are seeing people from 8 to 4
or whenever they come in. I mean also
keeping people housed and also helping
people um that are looking to get into
new places.
So we have obviously and and and help
you have management. Yeah. Yeah. I'm
sorry. We have intensive case management
for the HIV breakouts
do case management. Now I know this data
could be abstractable. Who would have
the data to say
we can extrapolate that how many people
become homeless, how many people leave
homelessness because at the end of the
day you want the net to be more people
going home home going into homes. Yeah.
>> So um so it's who can extrapolate that
data.
>> So we call that in HMIS data inflow and
outflow. And let me see if I can find
where we have that.
annotation
might have added I might have added it
to it. I think I might have added it to
the uh response system data. So you
might not have it here,
>> but there is a way that they're tracking
when you're putting someone into the
system for the first time or when
another hub
>> is either known to someone that would
you know uh entered into like the
beginning hub and then you know when
they're uh you know find housing you
know then they are considered inactive
and then they can you
So, so shelters, both shelters would put
people in the EMIS when they're when
they go into shelter.
>> Um, and then the PATH team um would also
do the same thing when they're working
with people out outside. Um,
the team at the city, we don't put our
data into HMIS yet. We're working on
that.
>> Um, so that I mean, it's only as good as
what's being put in there as well. out
the middle. I think that's how far we
don't know what the actual number is.
>> It's like impossible.
>> I know it's impossible, but I don't
know,
>> right? You're not going to get
>> Yeah, it is because I I heard you
talking earlier. I mean, about the
definition of homelessness when a
person's couch surfing, they're not
considered homeless,
>> and or squatting.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So, like that's a whole different
number of people that come in and out of
the streets throughout the day.
>> Yep.
>> Right. Right. And that's very much by
season. That's very much we see a huge
change in that by season.
>> Um,
and talk about like in and out of
Bangor. It's not uncommon. We have folks
that are from Bangor that have been in
Bangor. They have a relative in Lincoln
that they can go to Lincoln for six
months until they burn that bridge and
they're back back in Bangor. So it's
>> it's
incarcerated go to hospital and they
consider house even though they
>> they never did anything
>> yeah right it
>> can I ask you a question
>> um when we're interacting with the
unhoused and we're collecting this data
for him are we apprising them of the
fact that we are putting them into the
database
>> so they are told when they're in
shelters I'm not sure what path does but
I know that they they both shelters read
a thing letting them know what that
they're being put into the system.
>> There is an updated. Yeah.
>> Is there a way that they can revoke
their data if they would like to? Jason
» I I should just come to you first and
question the protections are there opt
in and opt out. [clears throat]
>> Thank you.
>> Feel like this conversation like I
already knew there's just tremendous
work being done by all of these
different agencies and agencies that
don't happen to be at this table
tonight. feel like there's a large
population in the city that has no idea
um what's happening and even listening
to the conversation might say that's all
alphabet soup to me. I have no idea. So
I think one of the benefits of this
committee might be finding a way to uh
think about the rhetoric of of how we
talk about this because like this is a
great conversation. I have just great
respect for everyone around the table
and what you do. Um but there's not
necessarily as many people seeing it. uh
the way I see it, the way my co-orker
Olivia sees it, working with all or many
of you and and uh not you, but
[laughter]
I don't know if she
>> but yeah. Um but
uh but but I I just feel like um you
know, it's heartbreaking that I I get to
see how much good work is done by each
of the agencies you represent and many
more. And I know there are many people
who for whatever reason don't see that
and and don't understand the value. Um
so I just I hope that we can also think
about bringing along the rest of the
population with the way that we we talk
about uh this and I'm not saying
anyone's talked about it wrong tonight.
I'm just saying as we think about it
like and that can be an element of
public comment in a couple of weeks. How
do we hear what the person's saying and
say how would it change someone's mind
if they heard us talk about uh you know
independent living
in in terms uh that that relate to the
very complaint that they had. So that
that's just what comes to mind. And you
know, I hear things that people are
saying and I'm just like so excited
because I know it's like a lot of work
that goes into it. But um but I I just
that's the other thing I want to think
about is how do how do we as this
committee help the the general public?
>> It's been right
>> been. Yeah.
>> Um so when I actually interviewed for
this position, that was my whole that
was my whole platform. Um, I said that
like one of the major focuses that I
mean one of the questions was how would
you address it? I mean if you had $3
million what would you do? I said, well,
I would focus on restoring trust and I
would put advocacy up front of the issue
and I would try and pressure the city
councilors to put this in layman's terms
because this is a heavily pathized issue
and in this room where we have providers
who are experts in it, it's even more
pathized and the layman has almost no
access to
um the terminology we're using. and they
have no understanding
>> and they can do simple math and they can do great math but they they
look outside. They see that the issue is
growing every day and they see that all
of these experts are speaking in these
heavily pathologized siloed ways that
don't make sense to them and don't make
sense to the stakeholders. Um and
they're like I think that's contributing
to the issue and it creates um
adversarial angles in the city. So, I
think that that is something that I
really hope that this committee can
focus on as well is just removing these
barriers, doing more direct advocacy and
direct outreach and appealing to the
layman um and teaching um our citizens
and community members what it is we do,
why we do it, why it's important, and
maybe there are other avenues that we
can pursue it that simplify the process
and make it more accessible. I mean one
of sorry one of the goals that you guys
identify as part of the end product this
is to figure out mechanism to continue
to educate both professional and
nonprofessional about homelessness and
how it's evolving because I think you
know your point is right I mean both s
we we stop talking the way we just used
to shop because that's how we function
but it changes even for us now versus
three years from now so And I think a
lot of the challenges
you know the population face I suppose
community because no one gets it no one
understands it uh for whatever the
perspective. So I think a goal for this
committee as a strategic action 12
months is probably and how to have a
system of ongoing education to just
about services and also dstigmatize the challengors.
I mean they cycle through.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So
>> well that's why you're hoping to build
this in so
>> we could create a playbook for the city
>> having some historical knowledge.
>> I mean they they change but the staff
does don't change as much. So that's
where they can hand inviting a regional
respons
I thought of when you were talking.
>> No that's fine. But something that I
actually wrote down in my notes here is
I think it'd be interesting if one of
our unhoused or recovery agencies would
um do something like an unhoused
education or like welcome to
homelessness where uh we could do sort
of an open um class
>> um for newcomers to homelessness because
like I said earlier that is a
marginalized position and say
>> to be naked and afraid in Bangor
>> they're just not
>> it's a horrible experience.
>> The one challenge with that is when you
do education like that, people already
have an interest. They want to go learn
about it. Um you need to build in a way
of education that how it ties into
almost everything in our community. Even
if you don't think about homelessness
right off the bat, all these have
implications of homelessness if let's
say food insecurity,
um heating bills and all kinds of stuff.
So I think there's got to be
just regular education but there's also
other things to build in that hey
everyone's invested it's not just this
person because he's homeless. I know
some jurisdiction for example um
I can't remember jurisdiction where they
the mental health budget was not by one
inst but by everybody education
department police department has a
built-in budget they said all of you
have a stake in it so you guys got to be
part of this. So it's the same thing
with justification that everyone even if
they have never seen homeless but they
got what they
in the interest of time as we're getting
close to wrapping up. Does anyone
[clears throat] have any final questions
or remarks for any of the staff that we
have here today? Uh Melissa asked me to
pass on uh her request for the next date
and time of the meeting to be sent to
her email or at least posted onto city
site.
>> It's the 11th, right?
» 11 I think that's
people.
» Yeah. I mean anyone thinks I think we
keep [clears throat] at the same time.
>> Yeah. I miss Mr. Al.
» Anybody else?
Motion to adjurnn.
>> Exactly.
>> So, one last thing. What are we asking
the staff to do for next?
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. So, I think for the next meeting,
we we need to have that protocol for
public comment because that sense.
>> Yes. I'll email the policy. If if I
don't turn on the mic, it doesn't go
through the TV. Um, I'll I'll email the
policy and we'll start doing public
outreach to encourage folks to come to
that um to that
session and then maybe because we
probably won't have an opportunity to
have a robust conversation about the
next meeting, maybe folks could send
their input to you Alton and then we can
coordinate on an agenda.
>> Yeah, I mean I I think it's likely going
to be
agenda for the if I call correctly. We
were thinking 90 minutes of public
comment and about 30 minutes for
committee discussion of said public
comment and I mean that essentially
would be the agenda. Um however if there
are other items that anybody wants on
the agenda for that conversation please
send it so that we can make sure it's
included. I think this what you going to
give that map or something that um
something you were saying you're going
to show.
>> Yeah.
>> So we as technical advisors
thought to continue the conversation in
the data by looking at the homeless
response system building that eco map
and then you had mentioned that you
wanted to hear like other municipal
examples specific things that the city
is doing. So perhaps if you maybe have
ideas about what that should entail, it
would give us all that much more time to
prepare for you. So any lead time that
you could give us with what you'd really
like us to bring would be helpful.
>> Well, email should we send that to you?
>> You can.
>> I think you're on the list actually.
>> Yeah, I'm on the I think that you you've
respond I think I've seen email. So I I
think was the election of a chair. It
probably makes sense to work those asks
through the chair.
>> Does that make sense to everyone else?
>> Okay.
>> I got include both of us, right? Like
you can cut out the middleman.
>> Does that make sense?
>> But then the numbers are going up
[clears throat] the
solicitor numbers.
>> Number of public document. [laughter]
» Either way is fine. Okay. send it
directly to me and I'm happy to
coordinate.
>> I'll probably CC both of you. I don't
really understand how technology works,
but I'm going to try and believe what
it's out there and it will find me.
>> Thank you so much for all the data.
>> A great place to start the conversation.
I'm sure it took a lot of work to pull
all of it together. I appreciate our
experts here too who are work not only
working on the issue on a daily basis
knowledge to bring to us
in this room right but we are going to
do it
>> public comment in this room correct
>> I'm guessing we s there will
be
>> um I would suggest that we you you
either could sit at count see the people
have them
>> or we could rearrange this table and
then folks will step to the podium to
get their movement
>> see like
>> I just worry about the power dynamic of
that I know it's just like
>> you know you're right
>> you're worried that it'll feel like
you're like
>> it will dstigmatize
>> just do the table all table
>> when we did something similar for the
opioid advisory committee the committee
did sit at this table
>> facing the audience Yes, that's perfect.
Yeah,
>> there's nothing else. A motion to journ.
>> I second.
>> I do need a gabble. was like