All this city council bond workshop to order, 5.33 p.m. September 2nd
on the agenda item A is
to discuss the bond.
I think everybody got an updated road list yesterday. Email to them
with
the road list of the bond and I think most of the bond and splits kind of done.
on
my my ward I went and did DBS T on a bunch of streets behind the fire
station which is 556 and Avenue B instead of conventional asphalt which cut
about 500,000 out of my need which still left me a little short so you
want
I'm going to go by Ward, look at each road list there.
I'm pretty satisfied with mine.
All right, Ward 1, Mr. Seal.
I must have our stuff done after the storm during the storm.
The county did a couple of roads.
Joe's by your road.
Is that me paved?
It's just bad.
I mean from the county or somebody paved from the bridge going to Blue Meadow.
So from this side, it's not, you know, we wrote it, we looked at it, it's got some holes in it, but it's not a thoroughfare.
I mean, if we can maintain it, but maybe for a little bit of cost.
That's the only road I had any questions about.
Yeah.
And I've wrote it, you know, and it's the same thing.
I just don't know much traffic's on it.
Right.
I know it's shut down. Some people use it to go to the casino.
It's not sure, really.
That's what's here.
people. Yeah, it's coming from that way.
You see somebody getting off 90.
Really just bad by the bridge. It is. And we can maybe if you hot
patch, you know, just that one section from the bridge that would
you know, I mean, we also
So, you know, the DBST and the chip seal and all, the D1, but I don't know if they're
going to be in that area where it would make it worthwhile to use.
If they're not in that area for one, it's going to be as much as asphalt.
So really, that's probably, you know, we looked at that.
That probably won't be an option on that road.
We just need to see if that's what we want to go ahead and use.
or two.
Jason, this pricing and everything includes the striping and all for Main Street.
We do have the striping, yes, sir, so we've got striping on St. Francis and then Main
Street for the first block. That's all included in this final number, right?
Is that indicative of every single ward?
We're only looking. If there's no current striping, then we weren't going to go back and strike it.
Whatever's there now. Main Street, we've got to mill up so much of it because of the carbon gutter.
So we're going to take up all that striping anyway, so we've got to redo it.
Okay, thank you.
Jason on that beach area down there, we've talked about trying to come in with some striping
and all through that area, traffic regions,
crossover walks and things like that.
We have anything for this or is this something
we're gonna look at on the side?
The numbers that we have now are strictly for what's there?
Strictly on Main Street.
Main Street, right.
We're gonna have to do something there.
You know, we've looked and all
and trying to create some, I guess,
unloading and loading zones.
Right.
Maybe at the end of the mile
And we created the one on Port Street of Smalling.
And if we need to take up a little more
and to restripe that one as well,
we'll talk about the one on Main Street along the bank side
where it can take care of that area
and then come down to the mollusins
and maybe take care of a little,
that a truck can fit in there as well
and to keep them off the beach and everything
from blocking traffic down there
when they get supplies in.
And I think a few years ago, we looked at a striping plan for the downtown area.
There are some, probably Gulf region would be a good source to reach out to.
It's like, and, you know, we, we talked about the crosswalks at the base of Main Street,
middle of Main Street.
And marked the ADA ramps.
Yeah, the ADA ramps.
Yeah, and with that, one of the things is, is our parking as well, you know,
they went up to the garage,
do we mark it in the street with arrows so you can see it
plainly in the street, mark the parking garage, you know, to try to get people there. Signed,
we put signs up. I don't know, they just don't catch the eye, they get blocked or whatever it is
to let people know, hey, the parking garage is a couple hundred feet down the road right here.
Is that something we'd want, maybe we do this striping on the beach itself to go in
and add that to it to try to, you know, get people to the garage for parking.
I have a question there.
Does Dunbar Street start at Main Street?
Dunbar?
Dunbar starts at Main and goes to the highway?
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay.
The first one is St. Francis Street.
It stops at Main Street.
So, Jason, you got Dunbar St. John.
there at St. Francis Street. What are you including in that 750 feet? Because it's not 750 feet
from St. John to Maine.
And that's $38,000 from St. John to Maine.
There's striping and milling included in that also. It's not just an overlay.
Yeah, that's the sidewalks that are in there.
You got 750 feet.
Without my map in front of me, I don't know exactly where I got that measurement from,
but the names of the streets might be wrong, but then your footage is still in there.
That's where Gene would pick up middle of that block there, and I think on yours...
I know, but in St. John, the main is not 750 feet.
I wouldn't think so.
I know on Main Street, yeah, I know it looks like a couple of blocks on Main Street, maybe
the three and four hundred might be swapped as far as footage goes on.
I'll verify that dimension, but that's where the intent is to go from Dunbar all the way
to St. John, or from Main Street all the way to St. John on St. Francis.
Right, but what are we doing on the other side of the 290 and Main
Street?
I've got Dunbar Street, St. Francis to Highway 90, that's in there, it's about 1,600 feet.
Okay,
so that's all Dunbar, so to speak, but then St. Francis, Dunbar to St. John, that's done up Main Street.
Do you think that's supposed to be St. John to Main Street, instead of Dunbar?
Is it all tied into...
Yeah, because then we pick up...
We have some in...
Old Spanish Trail?
Yeah, then we pick up from Old Spanish Trail from Bookter to St. John.
You've got, uh, 38 is 79,000 from Maine, Highway 90, which is 1,600 feet, and this is only 79, then the block is 38.
1
,600 is about twice as, 750 is 1,500, twice as much.
It's about twice as much.
It's not 750, though.
Well, I changed the number.
like I said 600 or 750 these are all budget numbers these are all estimates
none of this has been designed yet none of this has been wheeled off or measured
off so I can confirm that number away
from 90 past Main Street and on through
Yeah, the intent is to go from 90
all the way to Bookter.
Unbar slash St. Francis slash.
The only one I had a question on here, I think,
in Ward 2 was the 400 block of Carroll.
That would be a one just riding the roads
and all looking and all.
I'd like to rewrite that road, you know.
I just don't, I don't remember that.
Where are some of them?
I'd have to ride through there.
I do, I mean, I ride it all the time, but I don't,
That's the one bottom park there.
I mean, you ride them in a golf course, you'll know it's bad.
Just done more. And I just don't remember getting beat on that.
I'm going to go with that. State Street.
400 block of faith. President Maine.
And G.O. Fordham. Because from St. John to states like 699.
I'm not sure where it came from.
And now if you're talking about some assets, that little cut by the...
Yeah, I don't know what that's, 700.
So it was probably 200 feet,
then you got the telephone company's property right there,
Yeah, we might be honest, yeah, you know, I was looking at 3,350, but total, some of that might be for Ward 3 as well, but we stopped that in there.
But again, you know, like Jason said, it's just for the budget, I guess the exact numbers when it comes, but we can recheck some of these.
Now, there's a couple other roads as well.
How far is it from St. John, past Maine to where it intersects?
That was the 700 feet.
That's what I see.
Back to St. John.
That's where a dumb boy turns around State Street to where it meets the point.
And that was the 700.
It might be one of those on the flip side.
That would be in front of Anthony.
That's showing about 600, 700 feet.
That's going over Main Street to State Street for the how much where they intersect.
That's what I'm showing there, 700.
So footage is there just maybe moved to different might just have a different
treatment. Yeah, it's like 350 from Maine to St. John, but then it's another 350 or so to state.
That's all I got. Mike, do you want to revisit Carol? I do. I'd like to see it and I think
Jason, do we have the fire department in here to try to concrete? Yes, sir.
It's actually highlighted on the list. Yeah, it's not the last one that says
main street okay I got it yeah main street concrete by the fire department I
figured about 300 feet and I'd use the same it's priced out as concrete not
asphalt but it's I didn't have a separate take us into what m dot into that
concrete off the highway no sir there'd be another probably three or four hundred
feet to get to them it's really just right in front of where the fire
station is and where the trucks make the turn and we go back to asphalt we
We can extend it if you want, but all I priced out was just pretty much right in front of the fire department.
Okay.
Can I sit myself in?
All right.
Mr. Reed, Ward 3?
Yes.
With Michael, Sheila, and Cappy, the first price Jason was $8,800, and it went up to $37,000.
That's that's we wouldn't look at those that's gonna I feel like that needs to
be go back to concrete. Turn around in there and everything with the garbage trucks
and all going through those road eight up the concrete now, you know, call Jason
talking him about it,
not in stone, but I think we'll have to tear all that out and whether we
asphalt or not. I think it has to be two out and four, probably four inches, Jason, if we do the asphalt at least for one more. So that those three, they're in pretty bad shape. And to be concrete in that bad shape, they get a lot of wear.
That's the reason you see the increase in those three right
down.
The original estimate was just based off of a two inch overlay. And then once I went and looked at them and realized that they were concrete in the shape that they were in,
And they've got curving gutter, so we can't just go in there and just do an overlay right
on top of it.
You could bridge all that broken up concrete, but we'd have to go with at least six inches
of asphalt so that you don't end up with the asphalt cracking within a few months.
You can do that, then you've got to drop off on the edge by the curving gutter, and
then that all starts breaking off, so I think the best thing on those would be to
tear out the concrete, regrade it, repack the sub-grade, and go back with concrete
and tie that into the gutter lines.
Only one of them is concrete.
What's the first one?
The first one is Kathy.
Kathy.
And Sheila is the second one.
Michael's second.
Michael's the only one concrete.
Wasn't they all concrete?
Just Kathy and Sheila.
I mean, it's our asphalt.
Michael's the only one that's concrete.
Something we can look at then and go back.
And at the end, at Kella, I talked with Moriali, and he's okay with just putting some rocks
down there, grading that out, putting some rocks.
So when we get back on that, we're probably going to drop something over.
That was one of the ones I wanted to look at, it's not a whole lot, but it is something.
And Marty, Marty Street, I think from the end of the asphalt, to the end of the asphalt,
Marty is about 700 feet, 800 feet, Marty is 800 feet.
And they're okay with grating it in, but there's some rocks in there.
Just cover them in holes and then in them pot holes.
But taking asphalt to where it is now, they've got five new houses in there.
Basically the cutouts in the road, just to mess the road up.
Union
You just need to go back and look at Michael shielding
happy rest of it. The only other thing I had on in Ward 3 was a depot, like take that. I would
got that grant coming for that. I feel like there's plenty of money in that to do that road
and look at it and what we want to actually do with that road. So that was one, you know,
we looked at maybe possibly taking out away from the bond and have that money for
We got plenty to put to where we got as you can see we got $7,000 $7 million worth of roads
I see that that
was one you know we talked about that we can put that on the side and
all yeah that's what I would like to do if we took that out and used that money for
that people have, I'd like to put it toward their condition.
That's all, that's all, Mr.
That's
all, Mr. Reed.
Yes, sir.
Okay.
Mr. Smith, four.
Yes, sir.
In the Spanish Acres, is the concrete that the cul-de-sac included in this price?
Yes, sir, it is.
It's such a small section that I didn't do a separate price for it, but I included
that in the overall cost.
In 8th Street to Sube and Turner, that's going to be split.
but I
don't know that it's necessary that we include Mr. Mayor, EZ Street?
Yeah, I got EZ Street. I also have Webb Street as a question. Mark, I wrote Webb quite a few times trying to figure it's in pretty good shape.
Right.
I wrote Webb Street yesterday. I thought it was in pretty good shape.
I think Webb is not falling apart. You know that it's really in pretty good shape.
and all. Yeah because that's a chunk of money. Yeah I had I had easy and we had
I think it's another one that's good. Right. There was another one I had a
question mark on on Valentine Street. I'm not sure what block that was on
Valentine.
That's between railroad and old Spanish trail. Okay. Everything south
everything south and east of there was yeah we can go look at that
it's a little warm but I wrote it just actually a little while ago and it seemed pretty decent
he's got some rocks and the other killer street that's behind um
depot row back there
Right I just had a question mark on that
The only thing other thing I'd like to ask to see if we could do is
Put a crush rock on Ballard court
Charles
What's been on the trail or is that that strip along Jesus Christ?
That's on the north side one.
Above that chain.
Yeah, that's bad.
I don't look like that's been touched in...
Oh my God, years.
I would think that in Konichi probably was done last time together.
Yeah, it really needs to be taken care of.
But those are the only things that I have to...
So are we taking those last two off?
Whatever they're using?
I mean, it's something to look at, you know, just revisit.
Yeah, I'd like to just revisit those two.
Those could be alternate bids.
I think we need to consider looking at the numbers
and looking at how much the bond is.
I think we need to come up with a base bid and alternate bid
so that if the money comes in less,
anticipated coming in less than what I'm estimating.
And then at that time we can evaluate which streets we absolutely need to do
and then alternate streets that we can do that and then we can come back and add
those in let's just do that make that an alternate I talked to Jason before we
came over he thinks we may get they'll get a little better by money
A few more dollars out of this bond, also reached out to ask, you know, originally, we figured,
I think it was 440 for a note, 440,000 for a note, you know, we scaled back to 400,000.
I asked them to see what we could get down for that 40 as well.
The money's there, so the possibility we can go ahead and maybe get that.
Jason, what's the tonnage price?
What do you figure out?
For the overlay, we were figuring $80 per ton.
And we do have some asphalt base repair.
So we've got several different pay items.
The asphalt base repair, what that is, is in our section of road,
say like by Turner Street, by the little grocery store.
Yes.
It's cracked, it's really bad shape.
They have to come in and actually move that out about four inches and put some leveling
course or some asphalt in and then come back and overlay it.
That's usually higher because it just takes longer to do.
So we've got that at $85 per ton, that's the asphalt base repair.
And the contingency, is all I'm going to have a contingency fee?
Yeah, we just did a cross the board contingency for unforeseen issues coming to
field. I mean all the quantities are estimated and of course the contractors
paid on what's installed. So we put that 10% in there just so we'd have a
little bit of extra room. The mobilization is something that I think we
budgeted high once we actually get down to bidding the projects out and if
we know if we're going to have three contracts or two contracts or whatever
we're going to do, then I feel like that mobilization is going to come die down as
Well, so those those line items contingency mobilization engineering will all be lower than what's on this sheet
It just depends on how the projects are broken up
So the mobilization is you got to figure that what?
Is
We did that at 10%
Engineering you got about 9%
That's budgeted for right now is that 10%
you got put everything you got to add everything into it
mobilization, contingency, and everything
got to be added all together, and it's
going to be pushing that 10%.
That'll be a savings right there, too, once it's actually.
We just didn't know exactly what level of work
and what the scope of work was going to be.
There are several streets that we've looked at that we know
we're going to have to identify the right-of-way,
just so particularly back by the grocery store or Old Spanish
Trail, because we've got to be
To fix that drainage, we've got to know where the right-of-way is and mill all the way to the right-of-way and then slope it back down.
There's a couple out on Ward 6 that we suspect that this road has actually gotten outside the right-of-way a little bit,
so we need to identify that and erect those before we go out there and pave anything on private property.
So that'll all be included in that fee as well, but it's just a little bit of additional work that we haven't had to do in the past.
Are we able to reuse any of the new materials as base materials for the Ward 6 roads?
That's something we'll have to talk about. I've kind of got a list of design questions
I don't want her to go through once y'all have figured out what streets you want to
do. And that's one thing because we have a lot of millings in this project too.
So we can do that and have the contractor transport that out to some of the roads
or they can stockpile it and the city can move it as they get it. The need for
There's a couple of different ways you can handle it.
You could have the contractor haul it off and reuse it.
You get a better tonnage price if you do things like that.
I know there was some concern about the large material
that was milled the first time,
so if we want to include screening measures.
I talked to several asphalt contractors
and they said the only way to make it finer
is either slow down the milling machine
which really increases your milling cost
and it doesn't become feasible to reuse it, you can always screen it, either have them
screen it and haul off the large chunks and then just transport the smaller material.
So there's a couple of things like that that we have to talk about before we actually
put the bids out to see exactly what's the best way to go.
I think the intent is to reuse some of that material out there.
We have an idea of what it may bring our tonnage down to before we make a decision.
That'll be something that we'll bear that we'll have to talk to some of the
contract and it all depends on the quantity so we need that's why we need
to know what are we going to be milling base bits we know exactly it's going to
be two thousand yards of milling there's gonna be a thousand yards things
like that then we can figure back they reuse that how much savings on that
kind of price that was something that came up last go around they hauled it
off and they were able to reuse it it was we got a better price on the
million because they knew they could reuse it. If they don't get that
material, then they don't give this bit of a price for it. Just like crushing concrete.
A lot of times, they'll remove it for no cost because they can crush it up and reuse it.
Mr. Smith, that'll do me. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Hey Larry, what about that one strip along Shieldsboro? Is that a lower or is that
private property. They're turning lane? Yeah. St. Charles? Yeah. Well, going into shield. Oh,
well, yeah. I thought right across from Larry's house. Right. Well, that was pay. Yeah, they've
already done that. They did that already. I think maybe is are you talking about on St.
Charles side? Yeah, because there is a there is a strip. Okay. I'm using. Yeah, by Dave
I mean, people use it to park, right?
People are using it to park.
I don't know if that's private property or if that's actual city street.
I would suspect it's public road or the right-of-way St. Charles.
We'd have to pull the maps and verify it, but...
It's just a little worky.
Yeah, it's got some bumps and stuff in it.
We could look at adding that too.
I think that would just be a real...
Just an overlay.
Overlay probably one inch over that because it's not a absolutely full road
We make it look finished. Yeah, yeah, because the other section was paid last time
Mr.
Zimmerman five probably
about
That's where the repairs have been done and down the street. There's a smaller spot very small
maybe 10 by 10 that's failing also in the traffic grip and in another area you're going to have to go from the edge of the road to the edge of the road again
and get that section of road in the shape and get that tunnel way down where we're using it.
The only thing is we're going to have to go in before that mic and do some base repairs.
We're probably getting ready to get started on that as soon as we get caught up on a couple of these main drains and all.
get Jamie to go in and tear out.
You know, we just patched that and it started just the north side of the patch.
It goes all the way to the next patch.
Probably need to tear up that whole section at least.
Between the two patches, really.
We're getting ready to get started on that.
I would ask the engineer to design a plan on what we need.
I would say go in and take three feet of material out.
We're going to have to go in and take a couple feet.
Whether it's stumps under there that got buried at one time,
I'm not sure, but you know, we just did that.
Some good sand and put it back in and compact it.
Also got a couple of dirt roads through Dan and Jay.
Kingston Road.
I think we have those in.
Yeah, I got them on there.
OK.
One of the things in this, I'm not sure whether it
would be feasible or not to do it.
That chip seal and all, the car roads,
They do need haven and pretty bad shape all five of them back in there.
But if that's something that could possibly be chip sealed, it's not heavy traffic.
There's no culture sacks in it or anything turning around.
But again, Jason, you'd have to look and see if it's an area that's feasible to bring in the chip seal and all.
And I thought about that even going on those streets you just mentioned.
and Buddy J and Boudin Road.
But again, you know, the dump truck did back in that guy
turn around, and that dump truck always trucked and all.
Probably not going to hold up that long.
Car streets.
They've got the roads coming off of Longfellow.
What's the road parallel?
They did in Battleac, right?
That's Call Street, too.
Yeah, Cadillac, Lincoln, Alwik, Mercury, and Piney.
It's five of them, I think.
You got a turn where they tie into Cadillac.
You have that turn coming off a long cut.
My only concern with the chip seal is in that particular intersection,
you go out of his trucks and dump trucks, whatever going through there,
school buses, when they turn on that, that's where he kind of issues with the chip seal.
Yeah, it may not be feasible, isn't it?
That was the only question Mark, I had along, whether all the reserve needs,
and I don't know, that's going to be a tough one right there.
Yeah, and I think I priced out the entire length.
I wasn't real sure what we wanted to look at at that point, but we could definitely scale that back
We did have base repair included in this cost. So yeah, we okay have that gun
Mr.
Zermann
They just cut out all the streets on 9th and
All the way from 9th to on fellow
put those new culverts in, and we get a smaller contractor that can handle that pair of those.
All those cut-ins that we did when we replaced all those culverts.
From 9th all the way down to the streets that we got.
I think we don't have 9th on there.
Well, yeah, 9th's on there, but I'm just saying that when you replace the culverts.
The one we get in the road the other day?
Yeah, cut the 5-foot sections across.
10th and Hugo?
Yeah.
You know the 8th or 10th and Hugo?
Yeah, we can put those I mean they don't have to go in here. We could just do it as a separate project
You know out of the road bridge or something and just let some smaller like Johnson or something like that. Yeah
Yeah, they did the one on State Street
Okay, yeah, we can look at that
the record reflect the record
show that Mr. Nobody brought them up fixing anything by
my building on the floor. Oh yeah. I didn't bring that up.
Oh lord. Bring that. Let's see here. Alright. Mine's the big one.
Mr.
Mayor. Were you talking possibly trying to go to six million on the bond?
Is that
We have five, three right now.
Yes.
I think, you know, we do have the money up there.
I don't want to spend everything we got towards this.
We're talking about, I think maybe another 30,000,
as long as it's for needs, very much needs
and our infrastructure and everything and all.
I think we need to do it
and make sure we get what's needed right now.
Yes.
Okay.
Again, this is going to be a 20-year note.
We've got one on the books now, Doug.
But five years has been now, four to five years on that one.
So we still have 15 on that.
But again, when we put it together, it's something, you know,
you would never be able to do it in a year at a time.
It's something that, with the cost of it,
you can see what mobilization costs each time
we try to do something right now.
So that, you know, there's no doubt, talking with a couple, you know, upstate and everything,
the price of asphalt is going to be nothing, probably, but go up, you know, as we move on.
So I think this is an opportunity right now.
We need to get all of our needs and then, you know, make sure we go back into the areas that need it also.
So I think that's probably where we had exactly how much more I don't know, Josh.
Okay. I was just curious.
We've been beating around the bush with it for the last couple of weeks when we got the numbers in and all.
And one time I thought we were going to be good with the 5.3 or whatever it is and all,
but it seemed like we were going up a pretty good bit and everything on that.
So what did it get us? We can look and see.
I really do believe even if we kept everything on here and minus a few roads
here and there, you know, one or two here and there, I think we can probably still
come up with enough to do.
That's right. I was just asking just some quick math I
seen. You know, drainage, you know, we're working in-house on drainage and all we're
gonna have, I know a lot of Ward 6 has got cross culverts and everything, you know,
identified this past week and all, you know, the crossings and all coming, we're going to get those identified, we're going to get that taken care of.
We got sent a letter to the county today, I mean, the morning first thing that had been sent today, requesting that grader and operator to come in, we're going to start raising streets out there.
You know, a lot of side streets getting to, like, off-league, you know, out that way, the ones that need to, off-central out there, you know, by UBEs west,
take some of those in the streets there and start raising those most of them in
pretty good shape they need to be raised you know they all have a deli every one
of them got a deli in the middle of it. We're looking at trying to reshape those roads as well and have everything when it comes time for the Haven and all we're ready to go. Same thing around town.
You know we've got the big drainage project we hadn't heard anything left on you know back on St. John
and Esther Brooke, I think that's gonna be huge.
Jamie went out the other day,
crossover from the Lumberjolli Reverend Reed
back behind y'all, you know,
coming back through there, the Byers and everything.
Broke a dam, a couple dams, I think,
opened back there and drained a couple lakes ahead
and it stopped and we went back on the other end
off a cane back home and in that area I found a drainage that's coming through there that's
it's a defined drain coming through so we at the same time worked out pretty good little Ronnie
Fanny was there with um the engineer in front that's got the county so they're going to take
and do some drone flyovers in there and try to define that that drain and they have more
So we'll have an idea how we can tie in back behind, you know, further down behind the bars and all that into that drain there.
So we've made some headway on that.
We're not saying we still have to get in that big end when we need to get in there.
He's willing to send his people back in there with the track going and the path and everything working with Jameson.
So a lot of drainage work we're working on, you know, got some in the Cedar Point, all areas, you know,
just trying to try to get ahead of them, catch up.
Again, we, you know, having a hard time with employees, whether it's COVID
this and that or whatever,
one here, two here, that's out and everything.
We're we're moving forward on all that.
So, you know, we don't we don't want drainage to be a problem on our roads.
Slow things down once we get started.
So we've got we've got three or four months at least to try to get
the drainage done by the time this is all said and done in that way.
Hopefully, at least by the first two years, we can get moving on as if not the same.
Did the tractor come in?
Who's that?
The tractor with the ditch cleaner?
It is coming.
I
think we
need to talk about the different type of work. So you've got asphalt
paving, you've got chip seal, DBST, there's no contractor that does both of them.
The two big paving contractors, they sell about the DBST to two other contractors.
So if we're going to go with that amount of quantity on DBST, my recommendation is
We have a separate DBST contract that they can get in and do it, because if you go with,
if you combine them, then you're going to end up paying the markup on the DBST
for a general contractor to do it.
And there are large enough projects that you can still get the quantity down low enough
to get the great unit price.
And then if we have concrete repair like fire department, Michael Sheila,
Kathy Drive, those streets, whatever that works out to be,
Spanish Acres the end of there.
there. I think that could be another standalone project that would be smaller, a smaller contract
could go in there, prepare the sub-basin and pay those areas with concrete. If you start
mixing the different types of work, then I think you're going to end up paying more.
There's a general contractor, the paving contractors don't do DVST like I said, they
don't do concrete. So, you're just paying somebody to sub it out.
You're just paying somebody to sub it out, so why not just go to them directly.
So if we do three separate contractors, kind of what I have in the back of my mind, you
know, with the concrete, DBST, then paving, and then you got to decide on where you would
want to start.
And it just kind of depends on, I guess, I wouldn't say let's do a paving contract
in DBST at the same time because then you got two separate contractors working, potentially
working in the same area.
And so I think you ought to figure out, you know, where you want to go with the
first contract and go from there.
And last time we had two phase one and phase two paving, so all the DVSTs pretty much out
in ward six, so if that area wanted to start first and get that done and then do another
phase one paving, it seems like it works out pretty well from a mobilization standpoint
because ward six is really one separate area and then you can do the other paving
down in the old part of town as one separate contract, so maybe you end up with four
contracts.
The mobilization is, budgeted right now, we're estimated at 10%, and that's 10% of whatever
the total cost of.
So, if you have four million dollar projects, or if you have one four million dollar project,
the mobilization is still 10%, so, and I think that what makes sense is breaking it
up into those different types of contracts to save money.
Yeah.
I agree with that.
Go directly to the, to the contractor, sell it in the sub, make the money on
it.
And like I say to DBST asphalt asphalt this side in the concrete so for I think
it make will make a lot of sense to do it that way I said they all large enough
projects we shouldn't get the quantity right discounts area DBST we came up
almost seven miles I think, so it's got a lot of them.
Look, you know, the county's using it.
Some, I'll get a list of roads you can go look at.
Ship seal, they did on Firetile Road,
I can remember that one being done
towards East, towards Harrison County, through there.
That road has held up very, very well.
I'll get a list of a couple more roads
that they're looking at that day.
One day,
there's also something they call,
they can help me put larger rocks
to
have it written down as something to check on the way.
Remember, like on 53 up north past,
where he was towards the county line up there,
they came in and did that and they used the bigger rocks
and all this something to wear that there.
Just like a chip seal chip.
And
that'll be in the design specs
for whatever type of material.
The down, I don't want to say a downfall with DBST,
but some things to consider is it's not as smooth
as asphalt, so out in county areas
where the traffic volume or the traffic speeds are a lot higher sometimes there
are noise complaints it's mitigated because you got a lot larger area the
houses aren't as compacted so a lot of people don't complain about it I think
it'll be fine down here because the streets are a lot smaller shorter and
you're not driving 40 50 60 miles an hour a lot slower speed so I think you
know that's shouldn't be a problem yeah every rule we looking at doing 25
miles an hour yeah they're all low speed roads low volume
We got a lot of them in one house here, one house there.
I think it clearly showed out there.
Road 556, 19th Street, all that down to 1999 or 2000.
Yeah, it's been 90 years.
Check out the problems.
It's a good product with it being loaded.
Got a little flex to it.
They say it won't crack and all that.
And we're talking about doing a fog seal on top yourself?
Yeah, so what's priced out here is a fog seal.
So another complaint about DVST is
it looks more gray than black asphalt
and a way to seal that off so that it does extend the life of it and keep water out.
It's to do a real thin fog seal. It makes it look more like asphalt, but it does give you a better ride.
It smooths it out and seals it off.
Killing in that dust that will come from the rock.
And then it knocks down the dust, yeah, because the rock that they use is limestone.
Yeah.
And so sometimes that can be dusty for a few months until it all wears off.
So putting fog seal on it gives you that look of a nice clean asphalt road.
It quiets it down a bit keeps it dust down and all those costs are figured into the I think we estimate it's
$6 per square yard
Talking to some of the contractors, I think that's going to be on the high side, too, but again
We actually get in and bid it out. We don't know exactly what the costs are going to be
What are we planning on like fine-tuning these numbers I was going to say just
Just to give some numbers, Mr. Reed, I don't know if you looked at it, but it came out like 540 award, I think, or something, was the total numbers or something, then per award I think it was 1 through 4, then 1.6 for 5 and 1.6 for 6 was the original, based on the 5.3 million that we received.
And then if we went up more, as the mayor was speaking, it would go to about 600,000.
I mean, when are we planning on fine-tuning the numbers?
You know, I think we need to, I think, look, we almost do without budget.
We've got work, we've got to, I want to do more workshops and I'll finalize in the budget coming up.
I think we need to continue the path on this.
I'll have some numbers, maybe for Tuesday night on it.
I think Mr. Reed's talking about like hard numbers
compared to just the estimates on this list, which would be...
I would say really wouldn't know until we bit it out and got some quotes back.
The next step would be, these are all cost estimates that we've been looking at right now.
The next step would be to actually go to the design phase of it.
Okay.
So that's where the engineering line item comes in,
so we can go actually measure the roads,
get hard numbers on it, look at the base repair
to see which ones we think.
We've just kind of done it across the board,
10% estimation on the base repair on each road.
So we need to go out to each road
and look and see how many failures that they have
that have to be cut out,
and that's where we'll refine those numbers.
But there's some field work that's required
that'll take some time and extra effort to do that.
So really on our part, kind of the next step
is to go ahead and submit that design contract
actually doing the final design on everything. So we're gonna have to know what roads are going to be done and a ton of trees and everything and if we're going to do concrete we have to know that's separate and the same thing that he did, STL, same thing with that. So we can have accurate numbers to go out for this and try to get the best bang of all of that.
Will the contingency fee
Mobilization and the engineering will that percentage stay the same because right now
We're twelve point one percent the engineering fee
We're at eleven percent
for the
The mobilization fee
And we're at no yeah, and we have ten percent for
are the contingency fee, except in Josh's award.
In Josh's award, we had 5% for the mobilization, 5.3%
for the contingency, and 11% for the engineering.
I think it's all campers' camp.
The difference is in Ward 6, there's
so much more quantity nearby.
So mobilization is going to be a lot lower,
because they don't have to move around the city
like they're having to do in other areas.
But if you look, you know, if you look at the contingency, it's based on 10% of the, like, what is that?
It all adds to itself.
It all adds up to 10%. You know, if your contingency is 10% of the cost, you add that into it,
then your mobilization is 10% of the contingency in it, and the engineer is 10% of the asphalt, the contingency, and the mobilization.
It all works out the way it's right at 10% or another.
Yeah, so I can award one that the total,
subtotal for construction estimate is 114.
So contingency, 10% of that is 114.50.
And then you add that contingency to the subtotal for mobilization.
And so 10% of 125 is 1250, 125.95.
and all that's added up to get the 10% for the engineering.
You're coming out right on the target when you do 12.1%
when you take that subtotal of 114.503 to send Doug's award
you do 12% of it, you're coming out at 13.54.
Right, that's not how it's calculated on here.
It's added to 114.50 plus 12.595.
That total right there is 130, about 138, that's where the 10% comes from.
So if you look at, yeah, if you want to pull that, if you pull the numbers out
individually and compare them to the subtotal, yeah, it's going to be high percentage.
But that's not, it's all based off of 10% for each one.
Which again, estimations for budget purposes, I do believe that the
mobilization is going to be less and I know the engineering is going to be less.
I guess we're just getting at Jason, is that you're charging engineering fees on top of mobilization fees on top of the contingency fees?
That's all built into the contract. Contingency is, let's say we have Dunbar Avenue, we've got it figured at 650 feet or 97 tons of overlay.
And if it comes back to needing 125 tons, that's where the contingency fee comes in.
I get that, but you're taking the 114.50 to 12.595, and then that added up comes in to 138, and then you're adding 10% to that number.
Why isn't the engineering is stuck to the actual roads themselves?
Mobileization is part of the contract, and contingency is part of the contract.
I know, but that has nothing to do with engineering.
Well, if mobilization came back at, say, they did no mobilization, just this amount, everybody
wanted to pay another road in their ward, which required engineering, I think, on top of it.
So I think it's just a safe proof to not wind up like happened last time.
I think at the end some fees wasn't all discussed up front, and then it was a big shortfall at the end.
So your contingency is fine, your mobilization is fine, but then you're adding engineering
fees to mobilization and contingency.
Mobilization is always a line item in the contract.
Every contract has a mobilization line item, so it's just like a bear's paving or striping
or anything else.
Okay, I get that.
I'm saying that you got 114-503, and then you're saying that you need extra engineering
Fees for the contingency where that would come into play is in the field for the from the inspection side and the additional
Certification for the construction side of it and
again, those are budgeted at 10%
But once it comes down now that we know pretty much almost a detailed or a more defined scope after this meeting tonight
Those numbers will start fluctuating. They'll be down further
Everybody
good with that?
I think it's just a good fees contingent if there's no contingency. There's no engineering cost associated with it
I think the contingency, if you want to bump that down to 5% for contingency and then add
that back into the construction cost, well you can do that too.
I think the important, what I'm trying to relay is there's a lot of unknowns once you
get out and start paving areas, there could be more base repair than what's anticipated
so the quantities may fluctuate.
So I don't want to think that you've got $500,000 in each bucket of money or each
ward and you're going to get $500,000 worth of paving.
A lot of that stuff needs to be looked at as the projects progress.
And
as you define it a little better, we'll know how much closer we might need to cut still from each ward.
Why don't you get ridden out on those concrete jobs?
Yeah, I mean that could be the first one to go.
Yeah, I mean he's got three streets, partial streets.
We need to verify, Mr. Reed, those streets through there.
We're here with Main Street, Spanish Acres, and then one of the Michael Street or whichever
one it was.
Yeah, let's look at that and see what you're over there.
That takes about six, you don't have to do that on a six-week bid project, huh?
Well, that, if it comes in, more than likely those would be less than the $50,000. I don't
remember what we had.
We'd probably get quotes from that.
That's something that we could, yeah, we could do a quick quote package on that and
then get that going pretty quick.
Yeah.
You don't have to do a full bid on it because that's the difference.
I would install a main sheet this month.
Well, I wouldn't install a construction worker.
That was going to start before...
Yeah.
Once crews were closed.
I mean, it's...
We're in September now, so you're going to be close.
That's where we at.
Thanks, guys, for the quick before it goes.
Well, but then you go lame.
We're going to have to rebuild that old structure of that room.
Yeah, that's...
And that's where that base...
I just wanted to remind you about that,
because that's going to be something that contingency money
that's going to come in this year.
Those are some of the quantities that may fluctuate once we actually go and evaluate
all your streets with a detailed evaluation and we'll know that.
You're not the one you're looking at maybe trying to widen that one, but I don't know
if we can...
I'll just move back to...
We've talked about trying to widen some of these and where you run into the issue
is the shoulder.
The ditches are so close to them that if you widen it, then you're going to
be having the edge of the road pretty much right in the ditch.
And then it's a safety standpoint, not as concerned
because these are low-frequency traveled roads.
But there's not a lot of support there.
And the edges start crumbling off.
And then you end up with the same with road that you have now.
Another road I would like to see maybe,
if we can do like the last time with the counting,
use their contract would be reserve streets.
I think Socracy is about to start, isn't it?
I would like to get that one done.
serve just needs that one section yes just that one 20 20 years we've been
working on that one section rude needs to be dug out probably a cover put in I
don't know something is there a submarine or something is there if we can get
with the counting we have we've worked on it since I've been 20 years I've
been that league and where that little guy from first section Williams yeah
I pick you in here if we can get him to come in now.
Well, let's be dug out.
Oh, we're going to dig it out.
We're going to be dug out.
Something's bad in that way.
No, I'm just saying, use that $78 dollar contract.
Well, use it at 75.
Same session.
I've got to put it on my list here.
Use that to do it like the last time.
We'll just pay him back.
We'll take out a room bridge money and get that done
like soon as we can.
We'll have it ready to go for him and all.
And we get taxed out.
So we do need to get it dug out and over there
or something, because that's something.
And they did dig out, Vic dug out the last two spots and now it's just between the two good spots at the last spot.
Oh, if you want to get them to do that, Comagé, will they fix that big culvert?
Well, that's what I was talking earlier about. Mike, how can we fix it? They got two water cuts in that Comagé as well, so it's not...
Just overlay it or whatever, but we'd like to get that one fixed.
Could you reach out to the county about that one too?
Comagé?
No reserve. Not yet. I said could you though. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Put a time frame together, see when they're going to have it and everything, when they may be doing something.
Yeah, we'll have it dug out hopefully in the next few weeks.
When soccer is starting, I'm going to get registration.
When they're doing advertising around there, it's the registration they'll be.
Yeah, I think they've started, huh?
They're trying to get the league forming.
They got a new board.
They started asking for sponsors.
They reached out. I know that.
They usually start somewhere around Halloween
and then start playing games around Thanksgiving.
Okay, so we've got a little time.
I've just seen registration come out
on my own, so...
Okay. Good deal.
Anything else?
Any public forum?
Nope.
see it anybody have any new business role business discuss yes
okay nothing to do
with buying anything like that right now we are for
short over in city hall one
and if we can maybe use a day or so here at the utility counting maybe the
you know, get the other one trained over there as well.
You'll end something.
Wouldn't be, you know, anything steady,
but it just starts on that and everything.
This
is, you know, part-time, 40 hours.
So would y'all give them a run for in
for a full-time position?
And you'll be able to get much help.
Yeah, it would just be a temporary right now.
And what is it?
We have a medical leave.
We have a FMLA with COVID.
He was up there helping, she's going to be at the harbor filling in down there helping them out down there.
And there's one more that's out right now.
So we're just short on staff over there and wondering if we can just get, you know.
Yeah, if we can, at least she wants the hours or what?
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, why don't we do that, give her some more hours?
Well, I supposed to say if we can reach out to her if she wants the hours.
I can text her to get out of the truck.
That's sharp as a tack, man.
Is that something you look temporarily,
temporarily burn rental for 40 hours a week
just for temporary basis?
Yeah, and she can, you know,
she can still fill in over here as needed.
You know, one of them is going to be four to five weeks of them.
I don't know how long the other one may be.
He's talking about weeks ago.
Wherever they...
Yeah, and they can go back and forth, you know.
You
know, it's just filling in here, you know, it might be, you know, like,
I would prefer Caitlyn stay here because she's the only thing Caitlyn might need
her in the beginning because she's already trained over the money and everything.
Yeah, well, we don't want to lose our Caitlyn, though, right?
We won't.
Yeah, we'll bring something to you tonight, just, you know, maybe look at it and I'll
try to get over there and talk to everybody and see what we've got.
Have you thought of somebody else with it? Maybe the building department to help with
site review
Not site reviews. I was thinking
Answering the phone and that kind of stuff doing
Need somebody else for doing site plan
Like three or four weeks up
Certified city planner
They pretty well caught up
I mean go somewhere else and see how long it takes I mean, you know, we are you know Jerry and him backed up some but I mean they getting it done
But they've got no on them and they are they pretty well caught up. I don't think two to three weeks is you know
I was born in Ariane, anyway.
I think Ariane could use him now.
Right now, I see that's the other thing.
Ariane works accounting, too, but right now,
we've got licenses coming in, renewals, and everything.
That's something to tell them how bad she can be backed up.
And just everything right now is falling at the same time.
People out there working hard and doing a great job.
We got behind when Ricky was out with his house.
He had taken some time off trying
to get with him, and he was fooling with the termites
and all rebuilding his house.
So they got a little behind him.
and they were caught up before that and they're pretty close to being caught up again from what you're saying.
Okay.
Is MML going to still be this much?
Are they cancel it or move it back or what?
What's that?
MML.
Uh-huh.
No, it's canceled.
It's canceled.
Yeah.
Congratulations to Larry, Smith, and Mike Fawrd.
They're graduating.
Larry's graduating.
and Mike's basic. Mike's basic and Mike's advanced. Congratulations. Good deal.
Good deal. Good. All
right. Will you know something for next council meeting? Yeah, I hope to have some numbers that give us time to look at these numbers here again and see what we can possibly get.
Yeah, they gave us the estimated interest rate. Yeah
Working on that as well, you know, he thinks anything's with them come out better than we was a month
Okay, good. I do know I think I sent to Jason. You know, we're looking at that
Two projects to DEQ
this station one that area and
then by our
Espionade
Replacing that one in an upgrade on station one
think the match is somewhere
180
Yeah, close to two hundred thousand dollars for match for those right there. We do we did talk about it
You know through the budget and everything right now. They have a home and we do have the money
You know until right now there's a grant out there
I think it's 0.8% loan or something like that.
Yeah.
So when we get a little more information,
we'll bring that back.
Is it worth spending cash for?
Or is it, you know, 0.8%?
Almost nothing on a 20-year loan.
Something we look at when we get closer on that.
How much is that going to be?
Yeah.
Probably, for both projects, about $1.5 million.
Sunset line is about a little over a million dollars to replace and relay that one.
And then lift station one is close to about half a million dollars to provide the pumps and new piping
and reroute a force main coming up.
Are those the ones that get a lot of water intrusion drainage?
Yeah, the main problem with lift station one is that there's a power outage
and the single pump can't keep up.
So we want to re-pipe, put an external suction lift pump on the outside of the wet well
And in that way, we basically got three pumps running at all times.
On the other thing, money has been released from Tideland and everything.
We're back on board with that spending, so we'll get back on 603.
The boat launch out there received information this week that we can start back on that.
Good thing with the Harbor project and everything going on down there that we use county funds for that.
We made some funds that they'd given us so we was able to continue working through this time and everything with Dan didn't have to postpone anywhere with Dan possibly causing more expenses with the mobilization in and out of there.
Hopefully we'll get back on 603 on the boat launch and start getting it ready.
Good fast-track yeah only four months late now
Todd might work on our fave when we do the job
Yeah be low tide months
Anybody have anything else good
Motion to adjourn motion motion Smith
Second seal vote the motion
All right, all right.
Paisus, thank you all.
Thank you, Jason.
Thank you, Mike.