[1:01] you know.
[6:12] Good morning everyone.
[6:13] My name is rudy louijeune,
[6:14] at-large city councilor and I
[6:16] am the vice chair of the boston
[6:16] city council committee on
[6:18] government operations.
[6:19] And I will be conducting
[6:20] today's hearing in the chair's
[6:21] absence.
[6:24] Today is AUGUST 11th, 2026.
[6:27] The exact time is 10:06 A.M..
[6:28] This hearing is being recorded
[6:29] .
[6:31] It is also being live
[6:32] streamed@boston.Gov for the
[6:35] city council dash tv and
[6:37] broadcast on channel eight rcn
[6:41] channel 82 fios channel 964.
[6:43] Written comments MAY be sent to
[6:46] the committee email at kcc
[6:47] doggo@boston.Gov and will be
[6:49] made a part of the record and
[6:50] available to all councilors.
[6:52] Public testimony will be taken
[6:53] at the end of this hearing.
[6:54] Individuals will be called on
[6:56] in the order in which they
[6:57] signed up and will have two
[6:58] minutes to testify.
[6:59] If you are interested in
[7:01] testifying in person, please
[7:02] add your name to the sign up
[7:03] sheet near the entrance of the
[7:04] chamber.
[7:05] If you are looking to testify
[7:07] virtually, please email our
[7:08] central staff liaison megan
[7:10] cavanaugh right here.
[7:13] Um at megan dawn
[7:13] cavanaugh@boston.Gov.
[7:16] That's nega and bless you.
[7:19] Cavanaugh cavanagh.
[7:22] H I boston.Gov for the link and
[7:23] your name will be added to the
[7:24] list.
[7:25] Today's hearing is on docket
[7:27] number 1541.
[7:29] Ordinance establishing minimum
[7:30] training requirements for
[7:31] unarmed security guards.
[7:33] This matter is sponsored by
[7:34] councilors henry santana and
[7:34] richard louijeune.
[7:36] It was referred to the
[7:38] committee on AUGUST 5th, 2026.
[7:40] Today I'm joined by my
[7:41] colleagues and or whatever
[7:43] rival councilor aaron murphy,
[7:45] councilor ed flynn,
[7:46] council PRESIDENT Liz creighton
[7:48] ,councilor santana and
[7:51] councilor durkan, um and
[7:52] councilor fitzgerald.
[7:53] Uh we will start with opening
[7:53] statements.
[7:55] I will give the lead sponsor
[7:56] three minutes for opening
[7:57] statements and my colleagues
[7:58] two minutes if they'd like to
[7:59] offer opening statements.
[8:01] The chair recognizes, uh, the
[8:02] lead sponsor, councilor santana
[8:03] .
[8:05] Good morning everyone and thank
[8:06] you, vice chair louijeune.
[8:08] First I want to thank my
[8:09] colleagues, um, the
[8:12] administration 32 bjj um and
[8:13] most importantly the workers
[8:14] who are here today.
[8:17] We are here because this is not
[8:17] just a conversation about
[8:18] training.
[8:19] It is a conversation about
[8:21] public safety, worker
[8:22] protection and our
[8:23] responsibility as a city to
[8:25] make sure the people we depend
[8:27] on are properly prepared and
[8:27] protected.
[8:29] The voices of the workers on
[8:31] the front lines must be at the
[8:32] center of this discussion.
[8:33] I look forward to working
[8:35] together to find meaningful
[8:36] path forward for boston.
[8:39] Public safety begins with
[8:41] preparedness every day unarmed
[8:42] security guards serve on the
[8:44] front lines of our communities
[8:47] protecting people and um,
[8:48] protecting people and
[8:49] properties in hospitals,
[8:51] residential buildings,
[8:53] workplaces, businesses and
[8:53] public spaces.
[8:55] They are often the first to
[8:56] respond to medical emergencies
[8:59] ,mental health crises,
[8:59] overdoses and conflicts.
[9:02] Yet in boston there are
[9:03] currently no minimum training
[9:04] requirements for unarmed
[9:05] security guards.
[9:07] We cannot expect people to
[9:09] respond to emergencies,
[9:10] de-escalate conflicts and
[9:11] protect others without ensuring
[9:13] they have the proper training
[9:15] and tools to do the job safely
[9:16] and effectively.
[9:18] Establishing minimum standards
[9:21] in areas such as cpr first aid
[9:24] overdose, overdose response,
[9:25] de-escalation, behavioral
[9:26] health and emergency
[9:28] preparedness is an investment
[9:29] in both workers and the
[9:31] communities they serve as a
[9:32] city council.
[9:34] We have a responsibility to
[9:35] examine whether boston can
[9:37] establish a reasonable baseline
[9:39] of training for those who are
[9:41] often first on the scene.
[9:42] If we expect them to protect
[9:44] our communities, we must make
[9:45] sure they are prepared to do
[9:45] so.
[9:47] This is how we build safer
[9:48] workplaces, protect our workers
[9:50] and create safer boston for
[9:50] everyone.
[9:51] Thank you.
[9:53] Thank you, councilor santana.
[9:54] The chair recognizes
[9:54] councilor murphy.
[9:56] You have the floor and two
[9:56] minutes.
[9:58] Morning.
[10:01] >> um, thank you everyone for
[10:01] being here.
[10:02] I'm looking forward to hearing
[10:06] from jody about more about
[10:06] this.
[10:08] This was just filed last week.
[10:08] We're here.
[10:09] It's quick turnaround.
[10:11] I just want to get on record
[10:13] before we learn more about this
[10:14] that I support.
[10:15] Always support appropriate
[10:16] training that protects all
[10:17] of our workers.
[10:19] So she has security guards in
[10:21] the public worker protection is
[10:23] very important and thank you
[10:24] jody I know we've had many
[10:26] hearings over these years.
[10:27] I've been on the council making
[10:29] sure we are doing everything we
[10:30] can on the council and whatever
[10:32] powers we have to make sure
[10:34] that our workers are protected.
[10:38] Um I do um you know this
[10:39] proposal and when I read
[10:42] through it it will impose 40
[10:44] hours of initial exclusively
[10:45] in-person training eight hours
[10:48] annually employer paid tuition
[10:49] and wages, annual permitting
[10:52] and reporting and penalties
[10:53] of $300 per guard per day.
[10:56] Those are substantial mandates.
[10:59] Um, I'm hoping after I hear all
[11:01] of the testimony that you know
[11:02] I am supporting those, right?
[11:03] If they make sense.
[11:05] Um, so I'm happy to be here
[11:07] today to learn because making
[11:09] sure that those who will have
[11:11] to comply do they have the
[11:12] tools necessary right.
[11:14] And will this in any way
[11:15] negatively impact someone that
[11:17] we MAY inadvertently be not
[11:18] thinking about?
[11:20] I'm looking forward to the
[11:20] advocates.
[11:23] I do just want to ask um, the
[11:25] makers of this and the chair
[11:27] of the committee I see that all
[11:29] of the advocates who were
[11:30] speaking are from 32 bj so
[11:31] thank you for being here.
[11:33] I know many of you guard
[11:34] yourselves so you'll bring a
[11:37] very personal opinion to this
[11:38] important conversation.
[11:41] But is there anyone maybe small
[11:42] business security owners who
[11:44] were also invited to speak?
[11:46] If not hope some of them are
[11:48] here and have signed up to at
[11:49] least give two minute public
[11:51] testimony but if necessary I
[11:53] know that this MAY need another
[11:54] hearing if we can get the other
[11:56] side because I think it's
[11:57] always important that when
[11:59] we're passing these important
[12:01] ordinances that we make sure we
[12:02] know exactly the impacts
[12:03] they're going to have.
[12:05] So looking forward to hearing
[12:06] more about how we can support
[12:07] our workers.
[12:07] Thank you.
[12:08] Thank you.
[12:09] >> the chair recognizes
[12:09] councilor flynn.
[12:10] Councilor flynn, you have the
[12:11] floor.
[12:12] Thank you.
[12:17] This is an important discussion
[12:20] and an opportunity for us to
[12:24] provide some critical training
[12:26] that unarmed security guards
[12:27] desperately need.
[12:29] When I was a probation officer
[12:30] at suffolk superior court, I
[12:32] worked part time at the carney
[12:34] hospital in their security
[12:35] division.
[12:37] I understand how important
[12:38] unarmed security guards are.
[12:43] For the safety of many
[12:44] employees and safety of the
[12:45] public as well.
[12:49] Um, I do support this proposal.
[12:50] I read it.
[12:52] I have respect for 32 objects
[12:54] probably now no city
[12:56] council that is has a better
[12:58] record on labor issues than
[12:58] myself.
[13:01] Uh, calling on hotel and
[13:02] restaurant workers.
[13:04] Um, so I'm here to support this
[13:06] proposal because I could
[13:07] because I know about this
[13:07] firsthand.
[13:09] Although I'm not a an original
[13:10] sponsor.
[13:13] I do know every detail about
[13:14] this proposal.
[13:15] Um, I would have I would have
[13:17] been a sponsor if I was asked.
[13:21] Um, but I do know that it is
[13:22] important for us to provide
[13:26] critical training support to
[13:29] unarmed security guards and
[13:30] ensuring that they're also
[13:32] treated with respect and
[13:32] dignity.
[13:35] And that's what this city is
[13:37] all about providing not just a
[13:39] job for people but providing
[13:40] them a career.
[13:42] And you all can have a career
[13:43] when you have the necessary
[13:46] training and resources and you
[13:47] get a good salary and good
[13:48] working conditions.
[13:50] But I do know the importance
[13:52] of the unarmed security guards
[13:54] in boston and they make a
[13:55] difference whether they're at
[13:58] schools, colleges, universities
[14:00] but especially from hospitals.
[14:01] That's where I can speak from
[14:02] experience.
[14:03] I know the critical role
[14:05] unarmed security guards play at
[14:08] many hospitals in boston and
[14:10] um, I want to be there for our
[14:13] security guards because they've
[14:14] always been there for the
[14:14] residents of boston.
[14:15] Thank you.
[14:17] Thank you.
[14:20] The chair recognizes
[14:21] council PRESIDENT Liz breeden.
[14:23] You have the floor and two
[14:23] minutes.
[14:23] Thank you.
[14:24] MADAM Chair and good.
[14:26] Morning everyone.
[14:28] >> good to see our friends from
[14:31] 32 pj and jody and uh, lou,
[14:32] thank you for being here.
[14:34] Um, I am in total support
[14:36] of this ordinance.
[14:37] Uh, it's very exciting to think
[14:39] that we're bringing this
[14:39] forward at this time.
[14:43] Um, it's the training minimum
[14:44] training is critically
[14:45] important for our unarmed
[14:48] security, uh, guards to elevate
[14:51] the skills and preparedness to
[14:53] equip our workers to deal with
[14:55] an array of different scenarios
[14:57] that can arise on any given day
[14:57] in their workplace.
[14:59] Uh, it enhances their safety
[15:01] and the safety of the public.
[15:03] And I really look forward to
[15:05] the conversation and, uh, hope
[15:06] that we can move this forward
[15:07] in a timely way.
[15:08] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[15:09] Thank you.
[15:12] >> the chair recognizes
[15:12] councilor sharon durkan.
[15:14] Thank you so much.
[15:16] Um, I might have been the only
[15:18] one I represent the last one
[15:20] being held back by fenway and
[15:20] mission hall.
[15:20] I might.
[15:22] >> be the only one who heard a
[15:23] lot of concerns about this
[15:24] ordinance.
[15:26] Um, so I do have a lot
[15:26] of questions.
[15:30] Um, and I look forward to, um,
[15:32] chatting um, and having
[15:33] potentially another hearing to
[15:34] go through, uh.
[15:34] >> the.
[15:36] Director's language because um
[15:38] ,knowing that uh, hospitals
[15:41] and academia music venues I
[15:42] also have concerns about sort
[15:44] of the broadness of how this is
[15:46] written, what it applied to
[15:48] doormen outside of a bar or a
[15:49] restaurant.
[15:52] Um, so I do want to make sure I
[15:54] get my questions answered and
[15:56] I'm not sure this is the
[15:57] appropriate format for that.
[16:00] So um so I look forward to more
[16:01] process and more hearings
[16:02] regarding this because I do
[16:04] think there are definitely
[16:06] small business impacts that I
[16:07] would like to consider as well.
[16:08] Thank you.
[16:14] Thank you.
[16:16] >> the chair recognizes
[16:16] councilor fitzgerald.
[16:17] You have the floor.
[16:18] Thank you, MADAM Chair and
[16:19] thank you to the administration
[16:21] in 32 bj for being here.
[16:22] Uh, I look forward to learning
[16:24] more in this hearing and asking
[16:25] questions and figuring out.
[16:26] So let's get started.
[16:26] Thank you very much.
[16:29] Thank you.
[16:31] Um and then I'd just like to
[16:32] say thank you to
[16:33] councilor santana for adding
[16:34] me as an original co-sponsor on
[16:35] this.
[16:38] Um, on this ordinance I grew up
[16:40] with a lot of people neighbors,
[16:42] residents, uh, who are security
[16:43] guards, unarmed security
[16:43] guards.
[16:47] It's often um, uh an entry
[16:49] level uh or beginning job for a
[16:50] lot of people in our
[16:51] communities, especially in our
[16:52] black and brown communities.
[16:54] so I uh this is really
[16:55] important and I want to thank
[16:56] all of our unarmed security
[16:57] workers every day for all
[16:58] of the incredible work that you
[16:59] do.
[17:00] Protecting our buildings often
[17:02] at, um, uh, standing in harm's
[17:02] way.
[17:04] We've seen it here.
[17:06] We've seen it in new york
[17:07] unfortunately where uh and uh,
[17:09] security guard passed away, um
[17:11] ,in the line of duty.
[17:12] So this is really important
[17:12] work.
[17:14] Um, at its core this is about
[17:15] recognizing that unarmed
[17:17] security work has become a real
[17:19] part of the public safety
[17:19] landscape in our city.
[17:21] Uh, they're working in
[17:22] hospitals, universities, uh,
[17:23] housing developments, office
[17:24] buildings and many of the
[17:26] places where they are asked to
[17:27] regularly deal with emergencies
[17:28] and people in crisis.
[17:29] This is about making sure that
[17:31] when workers are already being
[17:32] placed in these situations they
[17:33] have the training, preparation
[17:34] and support to respond safely
[17:35] and appropriately.
[17:37] If we're going to rely on these
[17:38] professions as heavily as we
[17:38] do.
[17:39] We need to make sure that
[17:40] there's some consistency.
[17:42] I also have heard feedback from
[17:42] industry.
[17:44] I've heard feedback uh from uh
[17:45] small business owners from
[17:48] large companies uh from india,
[17:50] from hospitals from uh a number
[17:50] of different entities.
[17:52] And I know that there are some
[17:52] training that already happened,
[17:53] but we're one of the only
[17:54] places that don't that doesn't
[17:56] have standardized training
[17:57] across the board.
[17:59] And so I'm looking forward to
[18:00] hearing testimony.
[18:01] Uh, in terms of uh, this
[18:03] ordinance how we make it better
[18:04] ,how we work in partnership,
[18:06] uh, to make sure that we are
[18:07] doing the best for our city,
[18:08] that best for all of our
[18:09] industry and the best for our
[18:10] workers.
[18:11] So thank you for everyone for
[18:11] being here.
[18:13] I am now going to turn it over
[18:13] to the administration.
[18:17] We are joined today uh by the
[18:17] administration.
[18:19] We are joined by lumen dorine,
[18:20] senior advisor for labor policy
[18:23] and uh jody sugarman bra bra
[18:24] and deputy chief of work
[18:25] empowerment.
[18:27] I will turn it over to you for
[18:29] any introductory remarks or any
[18:30] comments or I'm not sure if you
[18:32] have a presentation but you now
[18:34] have the floor and I will not
[18:35] the timer is off.
[18:35] Okay.
[18:37] Uh, louie the floor.
[18:37] Uh good.
[18:38] Morning chairs.
[18:39] Councilors.
[18:40] Thank you for the opportunity
[18:41] to testify today.
[18:43] Um, as is my practice.
[18:44] I'll keep the opening quick and
[18:45] save time for the conversation
[18:48] and the questions, but, uh, I
[18:50] think from the, uh,
[18:51] administration standpoint, uh,
[18:53] there's a lot to like in, uh,
[18:54] this ordinance at least in
[18:55] concept.
[18:57] Uh, we also, uh, sort of only
[19:00] got it recently and have been
[19:01] preparing and you know, much
[19:03] of the work uh, is obviously
[19:05] going to be done when uh, it's
[19:07] passed and the agency has to
[19:09] set it up and implement it so,
[19:10] you know, that's one uh, flag
[19:12] we know but uh, you know, there
[19:14] are obviously things in here I
[19:17] think that, um, have a lot
[19:17] of merit.
[19:20] So you know, the training in
[19:22] narcan administration or
[19:23] de-escalation, uh, dealing with
[19:25] folks, uh, struggling with
[19:26] addiction issues.
[19:28] I don't think anybody could be
[19:31] opposed to having, uh, you
[19:33] know, ensuring that we have a
[19:34] baseline uniform standard
[19:35] across the city to protect our
[19:36] hospitals, protect our
[19:37] universities, protect our banks
[19:40] ,uh, protect our concert
[19:40] venues.
[19:43] Um, in those circumstances and
[19:44] also most importantly, I think
[19:45] protect the workers themselves
[19:46] and make sure that they have
[19:47] the skills and the training to
[19:48] deal with whatever they face.
[19:49] And then I think the other
[19:52] piece of it uh, that um, you
[19:54] know, jumps up to us is the
[19:55] economic mobility.
[19:57] So uh, you know, the
[19:59] commonwealth in its in in in
[20:02] its decision making in 1972 uh
[20:04] embraced the principle that
[20:05] police officers should formally
[20:07] be uh formally get education
[20:09] and be compensated for it.
[20:10] And I think the same principle
[20:12] obtains for our private unarmed
[20:14] security guards education and
[20:15] training makes them better able
[20:16] to do their jobs.
[20:18] A uniform standard protects the
[20:19] city and protects the
[20:21] stakeholders and protects the
[20:22] institutions that we care
[20:22] about.
[20:25] So uh that is essentially what
[20:27] you'll hear from us today and
[20:28] we look forward to answering
[20:29] your questions and having a
[20:30] conversation.
[20:30] Thanks so much.
[20:32] Thank you.
[20:33] Advisor amanda rini.
[20:34] Uh, deputy chief sugarman
[20:37] bronson rosen.
[20:38] Sorry if I'm frozen.
[20:40] A second.
[20:41] Okay.
[20:42] That's all good.
[20:42] Um.
[20:44] Thank you so much for the
[20:45] opportunity to be here today.
[20:47] Um, as you know, the office
[20:48] of labor compliance and worker
[20:50] protections is always looking
[20:51] for opportunities to ensure
[20:53] that the workers in the city
[20:55] of boston not only have the
[20:56] protections that they need but
[20:58] pathways to good living wage
[20:58] jobs.
[21:00] I don't have much to add, um,
[21:03] from what lou said except that
[21:04] um we also are always very
[21:05] supportive of earn and learn
[21:06] models.
[21:08] They're really a critical way
[21:10] to allow people to enter into
[21:12] an occupation, uh, without any
[21:14] of the barriers and to be paid
[21:17] from day one and have portable
[21:18] credentials that they can take
[21:20] in order to have a good start
[21:21] in a living wage career.
[21:23] So we look forward to answering
[21:24] questions here today.
[21:26] Um, we are you know, we've had
[21:27] a short amount of time to
[21:29] review so we have a lot of work
[21:31] that MAY have to happen um
[21:32] afterwards but we are looking
[21:34] forward to answer questions and
[21:35] engaging with the
[21:35] council today.
[21:37] Thank you.
[21:40] Thank you very much to um the
[21:41] advisor and to the deputy
[21:42] director for being here at the
[21:43] beginning of this conversation
[21:44] as we introduce this ordinance
[21:46] and uh, begin the conversation.
[21:48] We appreciate your perspective.
[21:49] I am now going to turn it over
[21:50] to my colleagues.
[21:52] If they have any questions for
[21:53] this panel, I will give my
[21:53] colleague.
[21:55] Seven minutes inclusive of any
[21:55] questions and answers.
[21:58] Uh, councilor santana as the
[21:59] lead sponsor you begin and you
[22:00] have seven minutes.
[22:01] Thank you.
[22:03] Um thank you, MADAM Chair.
[22:06] Um, and thank you, um, both for
[22:07] being here and for answering
[22:07] our questions.
[22:09] Um, you know, I failed to
[22:11] mention in my opening statement
[22:13] um, you know, I actually was um
[22:15] ,my first campaign, um, for
[22:15] this job.
[22:17] Um, I was actually working
[22:19] overnights doing security, um,
[22:21] and um, you know, it was it was
[22:23] a great job and I was very
[22:23] tiring job.
[22:25] Um, but I also um it goes in
[22:26] hand with what's being proposed
[22:27] today.
[22:29] I did not have the proper
[22:31] training to be able to deal
[22:32] with all the situations that
[22:33] MAY dad, I MAY have encountered
[22:34] .
[22:36] Um, and I learned that
[22:37] firsthand while doing the job.
[22:39] Um, you know, I was supervising
[22:42] or securing a, um, an elderly
[22:43] facility.
[22:45] Um, you know, many of them were
[22:47] um and that by, you know, 8:09
[22:48] P.M. Um, and I was working
[22:50] overnight and um, all sorts
[22:53] of things will happen um,
[22:54] between 11 P.M. And 7 A.M. When
[22:55] I was um when I was there.
[22:58] um um so I got to do want to
[23:01] thank the um, um, the union 32
[23:02] bj um for having conversations
[23:04] with my office um, and being
[23:05] able to bring this, um, up to
[23:06] the attention.
[23:09] So, um, I know you've had, um,
[23:10] short on time to be able to
[23:12] review this, but, um, you know,
[23:13] I want to make sure that we are
[23:15] not just passing good policy on
[23:15] paper.
[23:17] Um, from the administration
[23:18] perspective, um, what are
[23:21] specific resources staffing, um
[23:23] systems and processes that need
[23:25] to be in place for an ordinance
[23:26] like this one to work in
[23:26] practice?
[23:29] That's a great question that
[23:30] we're we're still trying to
[23:31] figure that out.
[23:32] Um, we've been in contact with
[23:33] some of our colleagues
[23:34] counterparts in philadelphia.
[23:37] Um, but it's clear that we need
[23:39] the capacity to be able to
[23:41] review um, proposed
[23:42] applications permits.
[23:45] Uh, but I think we want to make
[23:48] sure that we do that work and
[23:49] do the due diligence
[23:50] of understanding that in
[23:52] partnership with the workers on
[23:54] the front lines with industry
[23:55] including understanding what
[23:57] should be part of the training
[23:58] program?
[24:02] Um, so we we know that there is
[24:03] capacity needed and we're still
[24:05] trying to figure that out.
[24:06] Yeah.
[24:07] >> and then as we still figure
[24:09] that out I'm wondering if there
[24:10] are any um.
[24:14] Uh like in terms
[24:15] of implementation, are there
[24:16] any barriers that you're able
[24:17] to see right now that um, that
[24:19] we MAY be able to identify um
[24:20] in terms of implementation?
[24:24] I don't know that I would say
[24:29] barriers as much as um ups or
[24:30] not even obstacles.
[24:32] We need to figure out what's
[24:33] needed and set up systems in
[24:35] place to make that happen.
[24:37] So the first step is what is
[24:39] involved what would be required
[24:40] of our office, what kind
[24:41] of capacity would be needed and
[24:43] then moving forward to ensure
[24:44] that we could meet that
[24:45] capacity.
[24:46] We're very lucky.
[24:47] The office of labor compliance
[24:50] and worker protections is new.
[24:51] It is part of the new worker
[24:52] empowerment cabinet, but it
[24:54] also is part of a cabinet that
[24:54] includes the office
[24:56] of workforce development, which
[24:57] has extensive experience in.
[24:58] Supporting training programs
[24:59] like this.
[25:02] So I feel like we have a lot
[25:04] of um, expertise and we've got
[25:06] a couple of other cities that
[25:07] we can learn from.
[25:10] Uh, so I think really it's a
[25:12] timeline and understanding that
[25:14] we we would need some lead time
[25:15] to go through that process and
[25:18] not be able to jump into this
[25:20] um, in 30 days even if it's
[25:21] effective in 30 days we'd need
[25:23] more time to ensure that we're
[25:25] setting up the systems in place
[25:26] to take in the permit
[25:28] applications and ensure all the
[25:28] systems are there.
[25:30] Absolutely, absolutely.
[25:30] >> I really appreciate that.
[25:33] Um, lou, I know you're in um I
[25:33] appreciate you being here.
[25:35] I know you're in constant
[25:36] communications with a lot
[25:37] of our unions, a lot of our
[25:38] worker, uh, workers throughout
[25:41] the city wondering um, you
[25:42] know, what are you hearing?
[25:44] Um, maybe prior to even this
[25:45] introduction from our workers,
[25:47] um, and maybe specifically our
[25:48] unarmed security guards.
[25:51] Um, and then, you know, have
[25:52] you heard anything since maybe
[25:53] this introduction?
[25:56] Well, I mean, I think, um, this
[25:57] is probably a point to talk a
[25:58] little bit more about the
[26:00] economic mobility, uh, piece
[26:01] of this which is very
[26:01] attractive.
[26:04] So I think having a uniform
[26:06] standard um, that enables our
[26:09] workers uh, to get a credential
[26:10] enhances their economic
[26:12] mobility and that could be as
[26:13] simple as sort of moving to
[26:15] another security provider or it
[26:18] could be potentially getting
[26:19] exposed to, you know, something
[26:20] that takes them on a different
[26:22] but related career trajectory.
[26:24] This is an incredibly expensive
[26:26] city to live in and I think
[26:26] giving.
[26:28] Opportunities to people
[26:28] particularly at the bottom
[26:30] of the economic scale so that
[26:31] they can move around a little
[26:33] bit more easily, they can have
[26:34] good, you know, middle class
[26:36] wages and economic protection
[26:37] that comes.
[26:38] This is a step in that
[26:38] direction.
[26:40] So you know that's why it's
[26:41] attractive to us and I think it
[26:43] gives a lot of opportunity to a
[26:44] lot of people that are working
[26:46] very hard and they could uh
[26:47] they could have something that
[26:48] makes it a little bit easier
[26:49] for them.
[26:50] So that's a I think what we
[26:51] stand.
[26:51] All right.
[26:52] No I really appreciate that
[26:53] perspective.
[26:54] It it's something that we
[26:55] definitely took under
[26:57] consideration when um um when
[26:59] creating this ordinance um I, I
[27:00] don't I don't want to have
[27:02] questions um for for this panel
[27:04] um I have a few for the the
[27:05] next panel but I do want to um
[27:06] thank the administration for
[27:08] being here being present um, on
[27:10] a short timeline and then I
[27:12] also um you know, I think
[27:13] there's, uh we want to be able
[27:15] to work with you all, um, work
[27:16] with everyone.
[27:17] Um, and you know, I know we're
[27:18] going to have public testimony
[27:18] later too.
[27:20] Um, looking forward to that.
[27:22] Um, to make sure that, um, as
[27:23] we're creating this that we're
[27:24] not speeding through this um,
[27:25] but that we're being
[27:27] thoughtful, um, and thinking
[27:28] about everyone and how this
[27:29] affects everyone.
[27:31] So um and again, thank you both
[27:31] for being here.
[27:33] Um, and I'll hand back my time.
[27:34] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[27:35] Thank you.
[27:35] Uh, the.
[27:36] Chair recognizes
[27:37] councilor murphy.
[27:38] You have the floor in seven
[27:39] minutes.
[27:39] Thank you.
[27:40] >> um.
[27:41] Thank you.
[27:42] Um, has.
[27:45] Any of this work already been
[27:46] going on?
[27:47] Because I know this ordinance
[27:49] and I if I heard you correctly
[27:50] ,you said it a few times that
[27:51] this is kind of coming.
[27:51] >> on quick.
[27:52] And you.
[27:52] >> don't.
[27:54] really have you know, the all
[27:55] the answers or thought through
[27:56] this yet.
[27:57] So if.
[27:59] We have as an administration
[28:01] already kind of thinking
[28:04] of this work have any small
[28:06] security companies nonunion
[28:07] security guards or property
[28:09] owners, hospitals, schools, you
[28:11] know, all of the organizations
[28:12] that MAY be impacted
[28:14] neighborhood businesses have we
[28:16] as an administration consulted
[28:16] any of.
[28:18] Them on this issue?
[28:22] So we are uh we have had
[28:23] exchanges and in preparation
[28:25] for this we have had uh some
[28:27] conversations with industry and
[28:29] uh are looking forward to
[28:30] continuing those conversations
[28:30] .
[28:31] We haven't touched the whole
[28:33] ecosystem yet as we said
[28:34] because this moved on fast.
[28:36] But councilor, I think you're
[28:37] highlighting a point that's
[28:38] important, which is that we
[28:39] need to have those cameras so
[28:40] you can't do something like
[28:42] this over the objections of the
[28:43] entire industry.
[28:44] You have to do it with them and
[28:45] working in partnership with
[28:45] them.
[28:46] And I think that could.
[28:48] >> you explain um, maybe for
[28:50] the public watching to who do
[28:51] you consider the industry?
[28:55] Well uh, certainly folks that
[28:56] are on the other side of the
[28:57] collective bargaining
[28:58] relationship with some of the
[28:59] unions but I think it's anybody
[29:00] that provides this private
[29:00] security.
[29:02] I mean, I think the more people
[29:04] you talk to and at least get
[29:05] their input it doesn't, you
[29:07] know, mean that all points are
[29:09] equal and all things have to be
[29:09] done.
[29:11] But I think those conversations
[29:12] are important so we're in the
[29:12] process of having them.
[29:15] Okay a question um.
[29:18] The ordinance says training.
[29:18] MAY be.
[29:20] >> provided only by a federally
[29:21] tax exempt organization, MAY.
[29:23] >> not be controlled.
[29:23] By a.
[29:24] >> security employer.
[29:26] And must be conducted
[29:28] exclusively through in-person
[29:28] classroom instruction.
[29:32] Um why are qualified security
[29:33] companies and legitimate online
[29:34] or hybrid.
[29:36] Training providers
[29:37] categorically excluded?
[29:38] Like have we thought that
[29:40] through or do you have an
[29:41] understanding of.
[29:42] Why it MAY have.
[29:44] >> had such strong wording
[29:46] of just in person tax exempt?
[29:50] I think that first we know that
[29:53] there are risks in for profit
[29:55] training programs and I think
[29:57] that the ensuring that the
[30:00] training programs are there to
[30:02] benefit workers and employers
[30:03] and ensuring that they're
[30:05] meeting the needs of the
[30:06] workers and the employers who
[30:07] hire them.
[30:11] Um, I know that um, in-person
[30:14] training for things like
[30:15] de-escalation.
[30:20] And um overdose training and um
[30:22] other important trainings that
[30:23] are critical to ensuring that
[30:25] the public and workers are safe
[30:26] are best done in person.
[30:29] Um, so I think that is the
[30:31] reasoning and thinking behind
[30:31] that.
[30:32] Um.
[30:34] >> I think as we go through the
[30:35] process of developing the
[30:37] training program, we as we said
[30:38] we will engage with the
[30:39] industry.
[30:41] We will engage with workers on
[30:42] the front lines to ensure that
[30:44] what we are creating and
[30:46] certifying meets the needs
[30:47] of those workers on the front
[30:49] lines and of course the
[30:50] employers that are going to be
[30:50] hiring them.
[30:51] Thank you.
[30:53] The ordinance would take effect
[30:55] 30 days after passage, but it
[30:57] requires the city to create a
[30:59] permit system, certify.
[31:00] Training providers.
[31:02] Establish qualifications,
[31:05] determine fees, issue notices,
[31:05] develop complaint.
[31:08] Procedures and promulgate
[31:08] regulations.
[31:09] How can businesses legally.
[31:12] Comply when none of those
[31:14] systems are already in place?
[31:15] If you could kind of talk
[31:16] through what that would look
[31:16] like.
[31:19] ,uh, I my understanding is
[31:21] that those systems must be in
[31:22] place for the first
[31:24] certification by JULY of the
[31:26] following year, JULY 2027.
[31:28] So I have not yet had an
[31:29] opportunity to really dig in to
[31:30] understand what must be in
[31:33] place prior versus when people
[31:35] would be permitted and by that
[31:36] JULY 1st.
[31:37] 2027 would.
[31:38] Be the.
[31:41] >> first set of permitted and
[31:43] um new training programs.
[31:46] So I can't really answer that
[31:47] question because I'm not quite
[31:49] sure yet what the differences.
[31:50] Okay.
[31:51] >> thank you.
[31:52] that's all I have for.
[31:52] Thank you.
[31:54] >> the chair recognizes
[31:54] councilor flynn.
[31:56] You have the floor and seven
[31:56] minutes.
[31:58] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[31:59] Thank you, jody for your
[31:59] important work.
[32:00] That you're doing.
[32:02] Um, jody, just wanted to follow
[32:04] up on a comment
[32:05] councilor murphy.
[32:06] Made or a.
[32:07] Question rather.
[32:08] The people.
[32:08] That would.
[32:11] >> be providing the training or
[32:12] the groups that would be.
[32:14] Providing the training.
[32:14] Could you just.
[32:16] Restate that who.
[32:18] Would be qualified under under
[32:19] what conditions.
[32:22] The the the as it stands right
[32:24] now it must be a nonprofit.
[32:27] Entity that provides the
[32:28] training that would be
[32:29] permitted in order to receive a
[32:30] permit.
[32:31] To give the training.
[32:32] That's what must.
[32:33] It must.
[32:34] >> be the case a nonprofit
[32:35] organization.
[32:37] Is there any.
[32:38] >> type of nonprofit
[32:40] organizations currently that do
[32:41] provide that training?
[32:44] I don't know I'm not sure I.
[32:45] Lo do you know the answer?
[32:49] Uh I don't as I sit here and
[32:50] talk I don't.
[32:55] Okay MADAM Chair, MAY I get
[32:56] that information?
[32:58] Um please.
[32:59] Yet the question is if there
[33:00] are nonprofit organizations
[33:01] that already provide the
[33:02] training that's being required
[33:03] under this ordinance.
[33:03] It's the.
[33:06] Question I guess, um.
[33:08] If there are no.
[33:10] Nonprofits that do provide.
[33:13] This training, is there any.
[33:17] For profit organization
[33:18] organizations that do provide
[33:18] this training?
[33:21] I think the structure at the
[33:24] moment is that the companies
[33:26] that hire security guards and.
[33:27] Contract them out.
[33:29] Provide the training, but it is
[33:32] as minimal as eight hours and
[33:36] then the training is also then
[33:38] additionally provided by the
[33:39] site that they are.
[33:40] Assigned to.
[33:44] That structure is varies from
[33:45] worker to worker from site.
[33:46] To site.
[33:48] And what this seeks to do is
[33:50] create a minimum standard
[33:52] across the board which is
[33:53] of significant value that
[33:56] ensures that all folks who are
[33:58] put on this on the front lines
[33:59] who are dealing with medical
[34:02] emergencies and other kinds
[34:03] of um public safety situations
[34:06] have the training they need to
[34:06] engage.
[34:07] >> with those.
[34:09] Would would form of police
[34:10] officers.
[34:11] That are engaged.
[34:12] >> in public.
[34:14] Safety in a for.
[34:16] Profit space.
[34:19] Would they be able to provide.
[34:23] Formal training to unarmed
[34:23] security officers as part
[34:24] of this uh, plan?
[34:30] The ordinance allows a process
[34:30] through.
[34:32] Which the trainers can then
[34:34] define their instructors so
[34:38] that is yet to be determined on
[34:41] how and where instructors are
[34:42] certified, if at all.
[34:44] But in order to receive a
[34:45] permit to provide the training
[34:47] that's required, the
[34:48] application process as it
[34:49] stands in the ordinance
[34:51] requires that they name their
[34:54] um their training trainers and
[34:56] one would assume that former
[34:59] police officers who have had
[35:00] significant training.
[35:00] >> could.
[35:01] Be part of that process.
[35:01] Yeah okay.
[35:02] >> that's what I was.
[35:03] Thinking that this.
[35:04] Potentially could go to a.
[35:07] Company where a former police
[35:07] chief.
[35:07] Of a.
[35:10] >> city could potentially get
[35:12] the contract to provide this
[35:12] training.
[35:13] Is that is that accurate?
[35:13] You're saying.
[35:15] >> it the way this is written
[35:17] it must be a nonprofit entity.
[35:19] Unless it's changed.
[35:20] Yeah, after the fact.
[35:22] When we write it.
[35:23] >> up basically.
[35:24] >> is that accurate?
[35:25] That is true.
[35:25] Okay.
[35:27] I think the important piece for
[35:29] us, um, is that the training.
[35:31] Is no cost to the workers and
[35:34] that they are paid to be part
[35:34] of the training.
[35:36] Those things are really
[35:36] critical pieces.
[35:37] >> of the ordinance.
[35:38] >> no thank you jody.
[35:40] Um lou has been.
[35:42] Um, invited.
[35:43] Into the conversation.
[35:45] Uh, but we're certainly on the
[35:46] list of people that we will
[35:48] talk to but we have not uh, as
[35:49] as we say this is moving fast
[35:50] and we've had the opportunity
[35:52] to talk to some folks and, uh,
[35:54] we will talk to others, but
[35:55] that was certainly on the list
[35:56] of people we need to consult.
[36:01] I do hear from a lot of people
[36:02] that this is moving fast.
[36:03] Is there a reason why.
[36:05] It is moving fast?
[36:06] I'm not saying.
[36:07] >> I disagree with that or
[36:08] agree with that but what.
[36:11] Why is there a sense of urgency
[36:11] on this?
[36:14] Um.
[36:18] >> we're responding to well,
[36:20] we're responding to a filing I
[36:20] think I would leave it at that.
[36:22] I don't know more than that.
[36:24] Uh, and we're sort of doing our
[36:25] best to get ahead of it and
[36:27] testify to the to the extent
[36:29] that we can but I I don't know
[36:29] the answer to your question,
[36:30] COUNCILMAN.
[36:30] Well.
[36:32] >> it was filed the reason.
[36:33] >> I'm.
[36:33] Asking was.
[36:34] >> filed in the.
[36:35] City council recently a couple
[36:35] of weeks ago.
[36:37] And we're here having a.
[36:40] Last week and we're having a
[36:42] hearing on it and and and.
[36:45] There's still a lot of.
[36:45] Unanswered questions I'm just
[36:46] trying to get to.
[36:48] I there's something I'm missing
[36:48] .
[36:49] There's something I'm missing
[36:51] here about the timing.
[36:53] Who has information about the
[36:54] timing.
[36:54] I want to.
[36:57] >> know why.
[36:58] I want to make sure if we pass
[37:00] something it has to be the
[37:01] right language.
[37:02] I don't want to.
[37:03] rush something just to get
[37:05] something done within two.
[37:07] Weeks and then find out we made
[37:07] mistakes.
[37:08] Why are we rushing this.
[37:10] To get it done tomorrow?
[37:16] No, I.
[37:18] >> guess the lead sponsor would
[37:21] like to speak on this through
[37:21] the chair.
[37:22] You MAY through the chair.
[37:24] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[37:25] I just want to bring some
[37:25] clarification.
[37:27] I don't want to I definitely do
[37:28] I don't think they know the
[37:29] answer to that as well as the
[37:30] lead filer.
[37:32] Um uh, as you know,
[37:34] councilor uh, I as a public
[37:37] knows I was away um, for a few
[37:37] weeks.
[37:39] Um, and this was supposed to be
[37:42] filed um prior um and we were
[37:43] working with um, the committee
[37:44] to try to get things scheduled.
[37:47] So, um, it was just that I, uh
[37:48] my last week was my first
[37:49] meeting back.
[37:50] Um, so I've made all my filings
[37:52] that I had missed, um, prior to
[37:52] this.
[37:54] So this is why I think some
[37:55] of the timing, um, questions
[37:58] but I think, um, I do want to
[38:00] make clear that, um, I don't
[38:02] think anyone here wants to rush
[38:03] through this process.
[38:04] I think we want to make sure
[38:05] that we're getting it right.
[38:07] Um, I think, um I already heard
[38:08] from multiple councilors as
[38:10] well, of of having another
[38:11] hearing usually an ordinance as
[38:12] we have working sessions to
[38:14] work on um, the language um and
[38:16] that that is all something that
[38:17] you know, I definitely want to
[38:18] do as the lead sponsor.
[38:19] Yeah.
[38:20] >> thank you.
[38:21] Thank you, councilor santana.
[38:22] I agree.
[38:22] With you.
[38:23] >> I want to make sure I get
[38:23] this.
[38:24] We get this right.
[38:26] I was a security guard.
[38:27] I know this.
[38:28] Issue as well as anyone here.
[38:30] I have the strongest record on
[38:32] the city council in support
[38:33] of organized labor.
[38:35] Then there's no one that has a
[38:37] better record on the city
[38:37] council than I do.
[38:39] I want to get this done.
[38:41] Uh, but I want to get it done
[38:41] the right way.
[38:43] And the right way is making
[38:44] sure we.
[38:46] Uh, do our due diligence.
[38:48] In ensuring all voices are.
[38:49] Heard included.
[38:50] >> and respected.
[38:51] Um.
[38:51] >> thank you.
[38:53] Thank you.
[38:56] >> the chair recognizes, uh,
[38:56] council PRESIDENT.
[38:57] Liz breadon.
[39:00] You have the floor and seven
[39:00] minutes.
[39:01] Thank you.
[39:03] >> um, MADAM Chair, um, I'm
[39:06] just, uh, again, I think I'm
[39:08] familiarizing myself with this
[39:10] this, uh this ordinance and
[39:13] also looking at what other
[39:15] standards other states have and
[39:17] other other municipalities.
[39:20] Uh, it says that, you know,
[39:21] massachusetts does not enforce
[39:24] a statewide minimum or mandate
[39:26] for an armed guard leaving
[39:27] specific training standards up
[39:29] to individual licensed uh
[39:31] employers and municipalities.
[39:33] Um, I think that leaves a lot
[39:35] of wiggle room and doesn't
[39:37] really establish a clear
[39:37] standard.
[39:40] Uh, by comparison I think uh,
[39:43] carol, uh, california requires
[39:44] 40 hours of total training,
[39:46] eight hours pre assignment to
[39:47] on partial arrest plus eight 30
[39:49] hours of general and elective
[39:50] subjects.
[39:51] New york mandated mandates
[39:53] eight hours pre assignment
[39:54] training followed by 16 hours
[39:57] of on the job training uh
[39:59] of course within the first 90
[40:01] days north carolina requires a
[40:02] minimum of 16 hours basic
[40:04] classroom covering legal
[40:05] issues, communications and
[40:06] emergency response.
[40:10] It seems like this uh ordinance
[40:12] is is filling a gap and meets
[40:14] the need for some standardized
[40:14] training.
[40:17] Uh, I also think that the issue
[40:19] about economic mobility if you
[40:21] have a uh a portable credential
[40:23] that allows you to seek
[40:25] employment elsewhere um, and
[40:27] that's that is good a
[40:28] credential that's well
[40:29] respected and has good
[40:29] standing.
[40:32] I think that's um that's really
[40:35] critically important in terms
[40:37] of um in terms of the terrain.
[40:39] Just how do you why do we why
[40:42] do we not have more in 2026?
[40:44] Why do we not have a more
[40:47] standard training for um,
[40:49] unarmed security guards in
[40:49] massachusetts?
[40:51] Is there any sort of history to
[40:53] that or is it what's the
[40:53] background?
[40:56] Uh, MADAM PRESIDENT, I think I
[40:58] mean what I would say is that,
[40:59] uh, those kind of uniform
[41:00] standards come from the state
[41:01] government.
[41:03] Uh, you know that sort of when
[41:05] we want to make a uniform
[41:07] policy across the 351 cities
[41:08] and towns in the commonwealth,
[41:09] it falls to the legislature to
[41:10] do that.
[41:11] You know, that hasn't happened
[41:12] .
[41:14] Um, I don't want to make that
[41:15] sound like I'm blaming anybody,
[41:17] but it hasn't happened.
[41:18] Uh, the simple fact is as we
[41:20] sit here and talk, we don't
[41:22] have a uniform standard for
[41:24] training these critical
[41:25] frontline workers.
[41:27] And so I think from our
[41:28] standpoint that's the
[41:29] circumstance where it falls to
[41:30] local government that's closest
[41:32] to the ground to do this work.
[41:33] It hasn't happened.
[41:35] So it falls to us to do it and
[41:36] that's you and me.
[41:37] Yeah that's us.
[41:38] We're we're it.
[41:40] Um.
[41:42] >> in terms of the menu
[41:44] of training skills I think this
[41:45] might be a question for you.
[41:47] What do you think has been the
[41:49] most important skill set that
[41:51] we want to ensure that there's
[41:52] uniformity for all armed
[41:53] security guards?
[41:57] I think that's a question for
[41:59] the frontline workers and the
[42:01] employers who hire them.
[42:02] But the list and the ordinance
[42:04] has some really critical pieces
[42:07] around de-escalation, um, and
[42:10] uh, cpr and other health and
[42:11] safety training.
[42:13] Um, you know, the office that I
[42:15] lead, I always think it's
[42:16] important that workers know and
[42:17] understand their rights on the
[42:19] job and that is part of the
[42:19] training.
[42:21] Uh, but again, the best
[42:22] training programs are
[42:24] created in consultation with
[42:27] the frontline workers and the
[42:28] people who are going to employ
[42:28] them.
[42:30] So I think that work is to be
[42:31] done.
[42:32] But the list and the ordinance
[42:34] certainly is a very good start
[42:37] with important, important
[42:38] skills and trainings that will
[42:41] ensure that, um, unarmed guards
[42:43] are safe and the people that
[42:44] they protect also.
[42:46] Um I think.
[42:48] You know the whole issue on
[42:49] de-escalation and communication
[42:51] when there's conflict people
[42:53] get very feisty at times um,
[42:55] handling difficult public
[42:55] interactions.
[42:57] That's a particular skill set
[42:59] that not everyone has.
[43:01] So it's not about using brute
[43:03] force to manage a situation.
[43:05] It's about de-escalating and
[43:08] and uh handling situations
[43:09] sensitively so that people feel
[43:11] heard and that the that they
[43:12] don't ramp up their aggression
[43:14] or whatever their displeasure.
[43:19] Um uh under any particular and
[43:20] like obviously I think this
[43:22] will be refined and will be
[43:24] going to I am assuming will be
[43:25] having working sessions on this
[43:27] and and I look forward to the
[43:27] conversation with the next
[43:28] panel.
[43:32] Um, do you foresee any
[43:35] particular challenges with um
[43:39] uh standing up this this this
[43:40] standard going forward like
[43:42] timelines, training
[43:45] requirements, um, um any any
[43:46] other particular challenges?
[43:48] I think that we need a little
[43:50] bit more time to do our due
[43:51] diligence to come up with a
[43:53] solid implementation plan
[43:54] that's realistic based on the
[43:57] capacity and we are already
[43:57] starting to do that.
[43:59] Talk to our counterparts in
[44:00] other cities and towns.
[44:03] Um, but as a new department,
[44:04] the office of labor compliance
[44:06] has been tasked with
[44:06] implementation of new
[44:08] ordinances and um, we've been
[44:11] able to take it from beginning
[44:12] to end, including the heat
[44:12] ordinance.
[44:15] And I feel confident that, um,
[44:16] we would be able.
[44:18] To with enough time to do our
[44:20] due diligence, come up with a
[44:20] plan for.
[44:21] This as well.
[44:21] Yeah.
[44:24] And I think the partnership
[44:25] with our union colleagues are
[44:27] going to be really critical in
[44:29] managing the putting this
[44:31] together and developing a
[44:33] workable plan and also the the
[44:34] actual subject matter that
[44:37] folks are going to need to be
[44:37] skilled.
[44:40] Um and I feel and it's more
[44:41] of a statement rather than a
[44:42] question.
[44:45] Um having well-trained staff
[44:47] who are confident in their
[44:51] skills uh, is safety in itself
[44:53] like I think they they generate
[44:55] are they manifest like
[44:58] confidence and um they're
[44:59] nobody it's it's not about.
[45:00] Brute force.
[45:03] It's about being able to manage
[45:04] situations complex situations
[45:06] that can change very quickly.
[45:10] Um are there any other issues
[45:12] or concerns that you have in
[45:13] relation to how this might.
[45:14] Be viewed.
[45:17] More generally in the broader
[45:18] um environment in terms
[45:20] of other businesses etc.?
[45:24] No, I think I, I really look
[45:27] forward to creating um an
[45:29] opportunity to fill a gap
[45:30] that's really needed and to
[45:34] ensuring that we are providing
[45:35] um, a workforce which is
[45:37] increasingly part of our public
[45:37] safety.
[45:42] Ecosystem the skills they need
[45:43] while at the same time um
[45:46] giving them portable
[45:47] credentials earned and learning
[45:49] opportunities and career
[45:51] advancement opportunities and
[45:51] mobility opportunities.
[45:54] I think this this provides an
[45:55] opportunity to do two of the
[45:56] two things at once with that.
[45:57] But in that.
[45:58] Regard very good.
[45:59] Thank you.
[46:00] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[46:01] Thank you.
[46:02] Uh, council PRESIDENT Breeden
[46:02] um.
[46:04] And thank you everyone for
[46:05] doing so great on time.
[46:06] Um.
[46:08] We have also been joined by
[46:10] councilors ben weber and
[46:10] councilor and councilor.
[46:12] Reverend maynard culpeper.
[46:13] Uh, next.
[46:15] We have.
[46:16] Councilor sharon durkan.
[46:17] Councilor durkan.
[46:17] >> you have.
[46:18] >> the floor.
[46:18] Thank you.
[46:19] >> and seven minutes.
[46:20] Thank you, councilor louijeune.
[46:25] Um, so, uh, obviously as a city
[46:26] councilor we're often, you
[46:29] know, diving into issues that
[46:31] require a ton of intricacies
[46:33] and you know, but often.
[46:36] We are we are figuring out the
[46:39] intricacies and like the uh,
[46:41] confines of an issue as we're
[46:41] debating it.
[46:45] So, um so I want to just say
[46:46] thanks to the sponsors for
[46:48] their work, uh, on this issue.
[46:50] It's not an issue that I know a
[46:52] ton about other than the calls
[46:52] I've received.
[46:55] Uh, regarding um, you know,
[46:57] just folks and industry in our
[46:59] district just trying to figure
[47:02] out exactly what this would do
[47:03] and exactly who it.
[47:04] Applies to.
[47:06] Um, one issue I see with the
[47:08] way that this is currently
[47:11] drafted is that 1722 is the
[47:13] road safety and accountability
[47:14] for third party delivery
[47:15] drivers ordinance.
[47:16] So I think that we should
[47:17] create a new section in the
[47:18] city code.
[47:19] Uh.
[47:20] >> if this were to go into
[47:26] effect, um I do think that the
[47:28] way that I've heard from some
[47:29] of these security companies is
[47:31] they think that their training
[47:33] is their secret sauce like it's
[47:35] the type of work that they do
[47:36] and there are a lot
[47:38] of different settings that um
[47:40] that the security guards are
[47:42] are in um particularly with
[47:44] hospitals it might require a
[47:45] different training than
[47:46] guarding a door at a concert.
[47:49] Um, so can you speak to that
[47:50] from the city's perspective
[47:52] of the different settings that
[47:53] private security officers might
[47:55] be in and if there were to be a
[47:57] training establish how you
[47:58] would get at those intricacies
[47:59] ?
[48:01] Yeah.
[48:02] >> I think this ordinance sets
[48:04] us sets a baseline so that
[48:07] there are different kinds
[48:07] of settings.
[48:09] Hospitals would be certainly
[48:11] different than um, a setting
[48:13] out a front desk of a major
[48:15] office building or things like
[48:15] that.
[48:17] Um, but what this seeks to do
[48:19] is create a baseline so that
[48:23] all guards have um guards have
[48:25] some basic level of training.
[48:30] It's set out 40 hours um which
[48:32] um on the surface seems
[48:34] reasonable to me but that is um
[48:35] I would want to have additional
[48:37] conversations as we move
[48:37] forward.
[48:39] Um, to understand what is the
[48:41] baseline versus what is that
[48:42] extra on top piece that might
[48:44] be necessary from side to side
[48:44] ?
[48:46] >> and regarding the 40 hours
[48:49] of initial training I, I mean
[48:51] that sounds like on the face
[48:52] like a reasonable amount
[48:55] of hours but um, having talked
[48:56] to some of these security
[48:57] companies there's a lot of part
[48:59] time workers.
[49:00] Um, a lot of people who do
[49:02] private security are our lowest
[49:03] income workers, people who do
[49:04] it part time.
[49:06] They need that revenue in their
[49:08] lives for their families.
[49:11] Um, and so I think it's really
[49:13] important that this ordinance,
[49:18] um, puts the uh cost on the
[49:18] employer.
[49:21] But one concern I have is that,
[49:23] uh, you know, if you if you
[49:24] move like we were talking about
[49:26] from employer to employer, um,
[49:28] there's not something right now
[49:30] having read through um, in this
[49:31] ordinance it says if you have a
[49:33] training and you've been
[49:34] trained, you know, you have
[49:36] this training for a year and
[49:38] then it sounds like you're it
[49:39] sounds like there's a little
[49:40] bit of ambiguity in the current
[49:41] text.
[49:43] uh, that would essentially
[49:44] you'd have to be retrained when
[49:45] you joined a new.
[49:47] Uh.
[49:48] >> security company.
[49:50] Uh, and I think that there's
[49:53] kind of lacks the nuances of,
[49:55] you know, people living their
[49:55] lives.
[49:57] You know, when we get ethics
[50:00] trained, you know, we have that
[50:01] certification for a certain
[50:03] period of time and um, and you
[50:04] know, we do trainings
[50:05] throughout the city for
[50:07] different issues, you know, um,
[50:10] and so I think you should have
[50:12] a certificate and a certificate
[50:14] should, you know, carry you to
[50:15] any employer.
[50:19] Um I also have concerns um, I
[50:21] not necessarily about it being
[50:23] in person but I do think we
[50:26] absolutely need to talk you
[50:29] know, talk to employers and
[50:31] understand the nuances of these
[50:33] people's lives because uh, I
[50:34] mean, in the city of boston a
[50:36] lot of people work from home.
[50:38] Um, you know, and so asking
[50:40] people to go to a specific
[50:42] site, um, you know, where is
[50:43] their transportation covered?
[50:44] Where do they live?
[50:46] There's there's so many
[50:47] questions I have about kind
[50:50] of the burden on low income
[50:52] workers to get to trainings in
[50:54] person and um, depending on
[50:56] where they are located.
[50:58] Um, I understand the point
[51:00] of this ordinance and I
[51:01] understand potentially the
[51:03] issue that it's trying to solve
[51:03] .
[51:07] But um, I do think that the
[51:09] data in effect does not give
[51:10] enough time for these programs
[51:10] to be developed.
[51:15] I'm definitely concerned, um,
[51:17] about how this MAY conflict
[51:18] with state law.
[51:22] Um, and I understand um, the
[51:23] framework that we're working
[51:24] with in because this framework
[51:25] was used for the third party
[51:26] delivery ordinance.
[51:29] Um, so I understand that piece
[51:30] of this I do think it's
[51:32] important that these are
[51:34] different issues and um and I
[51:36] think it requires some nuance.
[51:39] Um, obviously like you, I
[51:40] haven't had a ton of time to
[51:41] digest.
[51:44] Uh, but I know that there are a
[51:47] lot of different types of, uh,
[51:49] security training that people
[51:51] are currently and frameworks
[51:52] that they're operating within
[51:53] within their businesses.
[51:55] And I think that does need to
[51:57] be sort of infused here.
[51:59] Um, because one concern that
[52:01] I've gotten from institutions
[52:03] in my district is that there is
[52:06] this um, idea that based based
[52:08] on their reading and this could
[52:09] be untrue.
[52:11] They want to offer like, uh,
[52:13] special training to their
[52:16] specific site, um, and and the
[52:18] specific confines of like the
[52:21] security of of where people are
[52:23] protecting and they feel like
[52:25] the way that this is written is
[52:28] a little too stringent about
[52:29] but I don't think that's the
[52:31] intent and I do think this
[52:32] could be worked through.
[52:34] Um, I just think it's really
[52:35] important that we talk about
[52:38] those nuances because I
[52:40] wouldn't want to vote for
[52:42] something that I think still
[52:42] needed work.
[52:46] And I do think that as a um,
[52:47] city councilor that represents
[52:49] a lot of places that are
[52:52] targets um having based it
[52:54] sounds great to have like
[52:56] baseline security and to
[52:58] protect against threats.
[53:00] Um but I you know, there's a
[53:01] lot of different stakeholders
[53:02] that I would want to bring into
[53:06] that and I think that uh,
[53:08] security in my district is like
[53:09] of utmost importance to me.
[53:12] Um, and I just want to um first
[53:15] armor who works in mission main
[53:16] right now.
[53:18] Um, they've they've brought up
[53:19] to me we had a security
[53:19] meeting.
[53:21] There was a shooting on JULY
[53:21] 5th.
[53:24] Um, they've brought up to me a
[53:25] lot of disrespect that they've
[53:27] received recently from
[53:28] residents and from folks that
[53:31] work within um, and so I.
[53:32] Don't think we're getting at
[53:33] all the nuances of what private
[53:35] security are dealing with right
[53:36] now within this ordinance.
[53:39] Um, and understanding that like
[53:40] the top issue I'm hearing from
[53:42] private security is the
[53:43] disrespect that they're facing
[53:45] when they are unarmed.
[53:47] And so I don't know that an
[53:48] ordinance can fix that, but
[53:50] that that's the top security
[53:51] issue I'm hearing about
[53:53] regarding private security, um
[53:55] ,in my district.
[53:56] So thank you to the chair.
[53:56] Thank you councilor derek in
[53:57] the chair and this council for
[53:58] cheryl to have the floor and
[53:58] seven minutes.
[53:59] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[54:02] Um, as always, I support a
[54:03] worker's right to unionize.
[54:04] Uh, and standards are always
[54:05] good to have to both, uh,
[54:06] measure and ensure
[54:07] accountability.
[54:08] Uh, with.
[54:09] >> that some basic questions.
[54:10] Do we know how many jobs does
[54:11] this training cover if
[54:12] implemented?
[54:13] Do we know how many actual
[54:14] security guards are out there
[54:16] that this would, uh, impact?
[54:18] I have not done that analysis
[54:19] yet but we could get that the
[54:20] answer to that question for
[54:20] you.
[54:21] Thank you.
[54:23] Um, and who pays for it?
[54:25] I think I know, but I just want
[54:25] to say for.
[54:26] >> the training.
[54:27] The employers.
[54:28] The employers of each
[54:29] individual got whoever they're
[54:29] with.
[54:30] Right.
[54:32] Um, is current training.
[54:33] Uh.
[54:34] >> by those companies that own
[54:35] a company by company basis or
[54:37] is it by sight etc..
[54:38] Uh and what.
[54:40] Standards do they base their
[54:43] training off of if any at the
[54:43] moment?
[54:45] At the moment there are no
[54:45] standards.
[54:47] It's my understanding that
[54:49] they're each company does some
[54:51] level of baseline training and
[54:52] then depending upon the site
[54:54] that they are assigned to there
[54:56] MAY or MAY not be additional
[54:57] training and it can be as
[55:01] little as from what I've seen
[55:01] eight hours.
[55:04] Um but then additional training
[55:05] MAY happen on site.
[55:06] But there's nothing that the
[55:07] local, state or federal level
[55:10] that holds them to any sort
[55:10] of standard.
[55:11] >> at the moment.
[55:11] That is correct for.
[55:12] Unarmed yards.
[55:13] great.
[55:14] >> thank you.
[55:15] Um.
[55:17] >> what are we worried about?
[55:18] What is this.
[55:19] That the training that they
[55:22] would be put into if we have a
[55:23] standard what is it
[55:24] specifically there to address?
[55:26] What is the problem that it's
[55:27] trying to solve?
[55:30] I think the next panel will
[55:31] give a lot more detail if you
[55:32] want to hear from frontline
[55:33] workers first and foremost, but
[55:36] I believe that unarmed workers
[55:38] are increasingly part of our
[55:41] public safety ecosystem and are
[55:44] consistently put in positions
[55:47] of um where they're dealing
[55:49] with aggressive confrontations,
[55:51] medical issues that they are
[55:54] not necessarily receiving the
[55:55] proper training to keep
[55:56] themselves in the public sector
[55:57] .
[55:59] So it's fair to say just all
[56:01] around general increase in
[56:02] certain behaviors that need to
[56:04] be trained for now rather than
[56:05] any specific.
[56:07] And playing an increasing role
[56:08] .
[56:08] >> yeah.
[56:09] Fair enough.
[56:09] Great.
[56:10] Thank you.
[56:14] Um kind of in the weeds here
[56:15] but I know what the ordinance
[56:16] asks for if they employ more
[56:18] than two security guards that
[56:19] are within city limits.
[56:22] So say I'm company x and I have
[56:25] 20 security guards, 18 are out
[56:27] in western mass but two are in
[56:27] the city.
[56:28] Does the training.
[56:30] Apply to all 20.
[56:31] >> or just the two within the
[56:32] city or I understand if they
[56:33] rotate and it makes it
[56:34] different right.
[56:36] But is it for anyone that is in
[56:37] the city?
[56:38] Does it uh automatically touch
[56:39] the entire company?
[56:43] The ordinance would apply to
[56:44] workers in the city of boston.
[56:46] Um, so I believe it's just
[56:47] those two.
[56:48] But I do want to have a little
[56:50] bit more time to go through in
[56:50] more detail.
[56:53] And you have the number of uh,
[56:54] workers in boston who are.
[56:55] 9000.
[56:57] >> 9000 and I'm security
[56:57] guards.
[56:58] Thank you.
[56:59] Um.
[57:02] Who was I?
[57:02] My next one.
[57:03] Um.
[57:04] >> oh, so.
[57:06] Rule 400.
[57:08] >> was repealed several years
[57:12] ago now, uh, and I believe that
[57:14] created the unarmed security
[57:15] guard in a way because they
[57:16] weren't allowed to have
[57:16] weapons.
[57:19] Is this end result is this in
[57:21] response to rule 400 going away
[57:23] and the need to bring back more
[57:24] training for that?
[57:25] I know they can't still they
[57:26] are not armed guards.
[57:29] Um but I know that in dealing
[57:30] with taking care of property
[57:31] with munis etc..
[57:34] Uh they didn't have that they
[57:35] could not actually put their
[57:36] hands on individuals to remove
[57:38] them from science because
[57:39] of rule 400.
[57:39] .
[57:40] >> to the best of my knowledge
[57:42] the answer to that question is
[57:42] no.
[57:43] I think these problems have uh,
[57:45] bedeviled this industry for a
[57:46] lot longer than the repeal
[57:48] of rule 400 and I think this is
[57:49] a long time coming.
[57:51] So I don't think the two are,
[57:53] uh, directly connected.
[57:53] Okay.
[57:55] >> and is there anything in the
[57:57] training that we would seek for
[58:01] them to get does not um, put
[58:03] back anything that was taken
[58:04] away with that.
[58:06] Repeal here again here again
[58:07] council the trouble is we've
[58:09] got a baseline here that's in
[58:10] the draft ordinance that's in
[58:11] front of us and we're talking.
[58:11] >> to you about.
[58:13] Building above the baseline and
[58:15] what's in it and what we do and
[58:16] how we do it is still to come.
[58:17] Fair enough.
[58:21] Um, you say you've talked with
[58:23] uh, philadelphia they have
[58:24] implemented this.
[58:26] We have reached out to them and
[58:27] we found the correct they are
[58:29] working on implementation now
[58:30] and they're totally looking
[58:31] forward to sharing with us what
[58:33] they've learned and um,
[58:35] allowing us to learn from from
[58:36] what worked well didn't work
[58:36] well there.
[58:38] But yeah, my question is
[58:38] question is going to be is
[58:39] there any foresight on what to
[58:40] expect but so yet to come.
[58:41] We look forward to those
[58:42] conversations.
[58:43] Um and is there any.
[58:45] Unintended consequences this
[58:46] MAY have on other businesses?
[58:47] Uh.
[58:49] Given the terminology used in
[58:51] the ordinance um, is there
[58:52] anyone else that could be is
[58:54] there a gray area of is there
[58:57] strictly security guard uh,
[58:58] companies and I'm security.
[58:59] guard companies and that is it
[59:01] or does it does it bleed into
[59:02] anything elsewhere?
[59:04] Someone out there you know, as
[59:05] we go down the line here,
[59:06] someone else might raise their
[59:07] hand and reach out to us and
[59:09] say hey john, you know I know
[59:11] you wouldn't think it but this
[59:13] affects me and here's what it
[59:13] will do to my business,
[59:14] company, neighborhood etc..
[59:18] And the definitions are pretty
[59:19] significant that are pretty
[59:21] clear as to who this covers.
[59:24] Um but I think I can only
[59:26] answer that we would go by this
[59:27] definition and I think it's um.
[59:28] Do you have the definition
[59:30] because I'm sorry I don't but
[59:31] and what what is the definition
[59:33] of an unarmed security guard?
[59:36] It is um well definition of of
[59:37] the employer.
[59:39] The security employer is anyone
[59:41] who employers employees two or
[59:43] more unarmed security guards to
[59:45] perform security services
[59:47] services at one or more
[59:48] covered property.
[59:48] Okay.
[59:50] >> and has nothing about what
[59:51] an and I'm sure there's no
[59:53] definition for the unarmed
[59:54] security guard and what.
[59:57] There is it's a larger
[59:57] paragraph.
[59:59] Um but again we would we would
[1:00:03] use this and um but it's always
[1:00:05] I can't answer whether or not
[1:00:06] they're unintended consequences
[1:00:06] .
[1:00:08] We would we would look at this
[1:00:10] very closely as we move forward
[1:00:11] with our due diligence to
[1:00:13] ensure that we are taking into
[1:00:15] account as much as we possibly
[1:00:16] could and meet with
[1:00:17] stakeholders to try to
[1:00:17] understand that.
[1:00:18] and we will work with you guys
[1:00:19] along the way.
[1:00:20] As we do that.
[1:00:20] That's our intent so.
[1:00:21] >> look forward to it.
[1:00:22] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[1:00:23] No further questions.
[1:00:23] Thank you.
[1:00:24] >> the chair recognizes
[1:00:25] councilor weber.
[1:00:26] You have the floor and seven
[1:00:26] minutes.
[1:00:28] Okay.
[1:00:29] >> thank you.
[1:00:29] Uh.
[1:00:30] >> yeah.
[1:00:31] >> I think, um.
[1:00:33] Councilor fitzgerald.
[1:00:34] Stole my first question, which
[1:00:35] is, you know how many security
[1:00:37] guards uh, do we have here in
[1:00:37] boston?
[1:00:39] And if you do the the research,
[1:00:41] it's 9000.
[1:00:44] Uh, um, where do you do over
[1:00:46] the the country has like 1.3
[1:00:48] million security guards and
[1:00:50] it's more uh, than the, you
[1:00:51] know, total number of police
[1:00:53] officers across the country
[1:00:53] here.
[1:00:55] It's the same in boston.
[1:00:57] This is like a large group
[1:01:00] of people, um, who are often,
[1:01:01] you know, paid among the lowest
[1:01:03] wages and asked to put
[1:01:05] themselves in harm's way often
[1:01:07] and work tedious shifts and
[1:01:07] hours.
[1:01:08] And so I.
[1:01:09] I.
[1:01:11] ,uh I know a lot of the
[1:01:13] studies highlight how many
[1:01:14] of these workers there are and
[1:01:15] obviously there's a lot here.
[1:01:17] Just think about how it dwarfs
[1:01:18] our own police department.
[1:01:20] Um I'm getting up to speed
[1:01:22] there there is an article I
[1:01:23] think that the uc berkeley
[1:01:25] labor center put out this month
[1:01:26] or in the last month.
[1:01:27] Actually JULY.
[1:01:28] >> 2026.
[1:01:30] Called underpaid, undervalued
[1:01:30] and essential.
[1:01:32] I don't know if anyone talked
[1:01:32] about this already.
[1:01:33] Uh it's the security guard
[1:01:35] workforce in the united states
[1:01:37] is kind of outlines a lot
[1:01:38] of issues I think that occur
[1:01:40] you know, uh, in the in the
[1:01:42] work space for our security
[1:01:44] guards um, even just finding
[1:01:46] out how many there are this
[1:01:49] sort of eye opening um, to do
[1:01:50] you.
[1:01:51] Uh, I.
[1:01:53] >> guess so do we already
[1:01:55] certify companies to do to do
[1:01:56] this work?
[1:01:58] Uh, no we don't, you know,
[1:01:58] track them.
[1:02:03] Um uh, do you know if they're
[1:02:05] and I don't think this is part
[1:02:07] of this ordinance but is any
[1:02:09] thought been given to
[1:02:10] background checks for people
[1:02:12] who work as security guards?
[1:02:16] I believe that is included.
[1:02:18] But I'm not 100% don't quote
[1:02:20] me but okay, but I believe
[1:02:20] that's included in.
[1:02:22] >> the I'll leave the file here
[1:02:23] too so if you want to address
[1:02:25] that later uh, we we have
[1:02:26] background checks for people
[1:02:27] going into this kind of work.
[1:02:31] Um, and I guess in terms of I
[1:02:32] think we are just sort
[1:02:34] of touching on this uh, getting
[1:02:37] to who's covered and um.
[1:02:38] I guess what's to.
[1:02:40] Stop uh, someone from saying
[1:02:42] well, that that person who's
[1:02:44] working at the desk is not
[1:02:46] providing security services
[1:02:47] under he they're just.
[1:02:49] They're a concierge or
[1:02:49] something.
[1:02:51] How to how do we how do we
[1:02:52] handle that?
[1:02:53] How does this ordinance deal
[1:02:53] with.
[1:02:56] The ordinance has a structure
[1:02:57] for enforcement where people
[1:02:59] can make complaints if they
[1:03:02] believe that they are um,
[1:03:04] working and uh, job that
[1:03:05] security and they don't have
[1:03:06] the proper training.
[1:03:09] Um, so there are administrative
[1:03:10] enforcement and penalties
[1:03:11] detailed in the ordinance.
[1:03:14] Um, I have not had an
[1:03:15] opportunity to go through the
[1:03:17] in detail to again
[1:03:19] operationalizing this is um
[1:03:21] work that is yet to be that we
[1:03:23] have to do still okay.
[1:03:25] And then in terms of protective
[1:03:27] gear you know like is are we
[1:03:30] going to like um sort
[1:03:32] of mandate companies to provide
[1:03:33] like sort of non-lethal
[1:03:37] protective measures for people
[1:03:38] or what what is the thinking on
[1:03:38] that?
[1:03:41] This focuses on training not
[1:03:43] protective gear or requirements
[1:03:45] around protective gear, but it
[1:03:48] does focus on the necessary
[1:03:51] health and safety training,
[1:03:51] de-escalation etc. That's
[1:03:51] required.
[1:03:53] Um okay.
[1:03:57] And then in terms of the I mean
[1:04:00] the the shifts uh that people
[1:04:02] are required to work I mean is
[1:04:03] there I don't know philadelphia
[1:04:04] or any of these other places
[1:04:04] too.
[1:04:07] They look at trying to I think
[1:04:09] it's often I don't know how you
[1:04:11] know, 12 hour shifts or
[1:04:11] overnight.
[1:04:14] Is there any benefit to
[1:04:16] requiring shorter shifts for
[1:04:18] people or regulating them?
[1:04:20] go ahead.
[1:04:20] >> yeah.
[1:04:22] >> uh I mean, councilor, this
[1:04:23] is exactly the kind of work
[1:04:24] that we have to do.
[1:04:26] Moving forward both with the
[1:04:27] ordinance and the
[1:04:27] implementation.
[1:04:29] I appreciate.
[1:04:31] These fine grained questions,
[1:04:34] but they're not ones that we
[1:04:35] can answer as we talked today.
[1:04:36] Okay.
[1:04:38] I you know, just want to shoot
[1:04:39] straight with you about what we
[1:04:41] are equipped to do and not do
[1:04:41] today.
[1:04:44] Um, so.
[1:04:46] So sounds good.
[1:04:47] Uh, and did you.
[1:04:48] Know I.
[1:04:49] Do we.
[1:04:51] >> have several large employers
[1:04:52] uh, here in the city.
[1:04:54] Usually they're concentrated.
[1:04:56] You know who who the large
[1:04:57] employers are in boston.
[1:04:57] Yeah.
[1:04:59] >> we've had an opportunity to
[1:05:00] speak with at least one who I
[1:05:01] believe has submitted testimony
[1:05:04] here today and, um, we would
[1:05:06] want to be able to move forward
[1:05:07] in the work ahead that
[1:05:09] involving all stakeholders
[1:05:09] including.
[1:05:10] >> them employers.
[1:05:11] Okay.
[1:05:13] >> um.
[1:05:14] ,and.
[1:05:17] In terms of administering this
[1:05:18] uh, you know, we've talked
[1:05:19] about this in other contexts
[1:05:20] like.
[1:05:23] What does your office will that
[1:05:25] you need more people in your
[1:05:27] office to do this work or how
[1:05:29] how can you handle it?
[1:05:31] Um, again, we haven't had a
[1:05:32] chance to really understand
[1:05:34] what capacity is needed to
[1:05:36] operationalize this.
[1:05:38] Um, but we are a small office
[1:05:40] and there's a lot of work to
[1:05:42] determine how we would move
[1:05:43] forward and what capacity we
[1:05:44] need.
[1:05:45] Okay.
[1:05:48] >> so we would need to set up a
[1:05:49] a database.
[1:05:50] Can you just walk me.
[1:05:51] Through what you what you think
[1:05:52] needs to happen?
[1:05:55] Uh, you know, if we pass this
[1:05:56] in your office.
[1:06:00] Um, as with the heat ordinance
[1:06:02] and other ordinance we've been
[1:06:03] tasked with, we first try to
[1:06:05] understand exactly what is
[1:06:08] required and then set up an
[1:06:10] implementation infrastructure
[1:06:12] and, um, philadelphia and other
[1:06:14] places they've hired a, um,
[1:06:15] consultant to set up the
[1:06:17] permitting system.
[1:06:18] That MAY be something we need
[1:06:20] here in boston, but I think as
[1:06:21] we've said, there's there's
[1:06:23] still a lot of work ahead to
[1:06:25] understand exactly what is
[1:06:26] required, what capacity would
[1:06:28] be needed and what strategies
[1:06:30] we would use to to meet that.
[1:06:33] Um, okay.
[1:06:35] Uh I think that's.
[1:06:36] All for my questions.
[1:06:37] Thank thank you chair.
[1:06:40] Thank you.
[1:06:43] Um, the chair recognizes
[1:06:43] councilor culpeper.
[1:06:44] You have the floor.
[1:06:44] In seven minutes.
[1:06:46] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[1:06:48] I want to begin by
[1:06:50] acknowledging what I think is
[1:06:52] an important common ground in
[1:06:52] this conversation.
[1:06:55] We know security officers play
[1:06:56] an important role in keeping
[1:07:00] people safe across our city,
[1:07:02] often an incredibly difficult
[1:07:04] and unpredictable
[1:07:05] circumstances.
[1:07:07] They deserve to have training
[1:07:09] and preparation and support
[1:07:11] necessary to do their job
[1:07:12] safely and effectively.
[1:07:14] Here's what's interesting as we
[1:07:16] discuss training for security
[1:07:19] officers um while in law
[1:07:22] student and law school uh, I
[1:07:24] was a security officer uh,
[1:07:26] untrained uh, and they put
[1:07:28] me in a warehouse and some
[1:07:28] of you.
[1:07:29] Big huge.
[1:07:32] Warehouse and I was there all
[1:07:33] night by myself.
[1:07:35] The good news is that I had a
[1:07:37] german shepherd named ginger
[1:07:38] that took good care of me.
[1:07:41] I had no training whatsoever.
[1:07:43] And when I think about where we
[1:07:45] are now, I think about how long
[1:07:48] ago that was and no training
[1:07:52] has been, uh, discussed in a
[1:07:54] serious way like we are now and
[1:07:56] now we're at the point where we
[1:07:57] have an ordinance of by
[1:07:57] training.
[1:08:02] I think there's broad agreement
[1:08:03] that there's a big gap here.
[1:08:05] Unlike most states,
[1:08:07] massachusetts does not
[1:08:08] currently require training.
[1:08:11] And when you think about
[1:08:12] philadelphia and we'll talk
[1:08:14] about philadelphia in a minute
[1:08:16] ,um, my question is that
[1:08:19] they're not coming from a place
[1:08:20] of opposition to training.
[1:08:22] They're coming from a place
[1:08:25] of wanting to understand how we
[1:08:26] operationalize this proposal
[1:08:27] successfully.
[1:08:29] You've heard a lot of questions
[1:08:31] about how do we actually
[1:08:33] operationalize this, especially
[1:08:35] when you look at philadelphia,
[1:08:37] they had to stop the program
[1:08:40] completely because when they
[1:08:42] got it started they hadn't
[1:08:47] planned in a way that required
[1:08:48] everything to be in place that
[1:08:49] was necessary.
[1:08:51] I look at the size of your
[1:08:52] office and we'll talk about
[1:08:53] that a little bit.
[1:08:55] I heard you mention that you
[1:08:56] had a small office.
[1:08:58] We'll talk a little bit about
[1:08:58] that.
[1:09:00] Uh, but we've heard concerns
[1:09:02] about the 40 hour requirement,
[1:09:05] the capacity of city to certify
[1:09:07] training providers and
[1:09:08] administer a new permitting
[1:09:11] system, the cost to employers
[1:09:12] and institutions that contract
[1:09:14] with them, whether existing
[1:09:16] high quality training should
[1:09:18] receive some form of credit.
[1:09:20] We also heard and I talked and
[1:09:22] we'll talk more about
[1:09:24] philadelphia, but that
[1:09:25] experience should not
[1:09:27] necessarily tell boston not to
[1:09:29] add but I think it should cause
[1:09:31] us to ask what we can learn
[1:09:32] from it and we'll talk about
[1:09:33] that a little bit.
[1:09:35] What lessons learned from
[1:09:37] philadelphia in trying to
[1:09:38] implement a system that they
[1:09:39] weren't prepared to implement.
[1:09:41] And my goal today is pretty
[1:09:42] simple I want to understand
[1:09:44] what problem we are trying to
[1:09:46] solve, what infrastructure is
[1:09:48] necessary to solve it, what
[1:09:50] implement implementation will
[1:09:52] actually require the city and
[1:09:54] employers and whether there are
[1:09:56] adjustments we can make that
[1:09:57] preserved the intent of this
[1:09:59] ordinance while making sure it
[1:10:01] works in practice if we're
[1:10:02] going to establish a new
[1:10:04] system, a new standard, I want
[1:10:06] it to be a standard that is
[1:10:08] meaningful for workers,
[1:10:10] manageable for employers,
[1:10:12] enforceable by the city and
[1:10:15] ultimately one that makes boces
[1:10:15] safer.
[1:10:17] So let's talk a little bit
[1:10:18] about the size of your office.
[1:10:21] What is the size of your office
[1:10:22] and what do you think you need?
[1:10:24] And I heard council weber kind
[1:10:25] of allude to that.
[1:10:28] But as you look at what's
[1:10:30] required in ordinance, what do
[1:10:32] you think you need in terms
[1:10:34] of additional staffing to
[1:10:37] actually uh, operationalize and
[1:10:39] implement this ordinance in the
[1:10:41] way that we've seen other
[1:10:42] states have implemented?
[1:10:44] Well, first I think we share
[1:10:45] the same goals.
[1:10:47] So thank you, um,
[1:10:48] councilor culpeper for laying
[1:10:49] that out.
[1:10:51] Our office is small in addition
[1:10:53] to myself we have three staff.
[1:10:56] We enforce the wage theft
[1:10:57] executive order, the living
[1:11:00] wage ordinance and the heat
[1:11:02] ordinance and we also do
[1:11:04] workers rights training and
[1:11:05] outreach and health and safety
[1:11:05] training and outreach.
[1:11:10] So um we have to we would have
[1:11:12] to do uh our due diligence to
[1:11:14] really understand what is
[1:11:14] involved.
[1:11:15] Before I could answer the
[1:11:18] question about what capacity we
[1:11:20] need, I don't really know until
[1:11:21] I've had that opportunity.
[1:11:23] I will say we are very lucky to
[1:11:26] ,um, have the opportunity to
[1:11:27] be in community with other
[1:11:28] municipal labor departments
[1:11:32] like philadelphia, new york and
[1:11:33] otherwise who've taken on some
[1:11:35] of these tasks and we intend to
[1:11:37] learn from them of what has
[1:11:38] worked, what hasn't worked, the
[1:11:41] kind of capacity um and I think
[1:11:43] we've always looked at
[1:11:45] opportunities to ensure that we
[1:11:49] are creating meaningful, um,
[1:11:51] meaningful laws in compliance
[1:11:53] and I turn to our living wage
[1:11:55] wage theft executive order in
[1:11:57] the implementation of the
[1:11:59] recent ordinance around um
[1:12:00] protecting workers from heat,
[1:12:03] we really looked at what we had
[1:12:04] the capacity to do and how we
[1:12:06] could utilize our resources for
[1:12:09] the maximum impact and we'd
[1:12:10] like to do that here as well.
[1:12:11] >> in terms of philadelphia,
[1:12:13] what was there did that give
[1:12:15] you any glaring problems that
[1:12:17] they said this has been a major
[1:12:18] problem for us.
[1:12:19] I have not yet had an
[1:12:20] opportunity to have the
[1:12:21] conversation with them.
[1:12:24] I have been able to identify
[1:12:25] the key staff person
[1:12:26] implementing that and look
[1:12:28] forward to having the
[1:12:29] conversation.
[1:12:31] Um, you know for we are just
[1:12:32] getting started and
[1:12:32] understanding this.
[1:12:35] So um we reached out to them
[1:12:38] and just have set up some
[1:12:38] initial.
[1:12:39] >> phone calls.
[1:12:40] Counselor, if I MAY.
[1:12:40] I think talking.
[1:12:42] About talking to labor folks in
[1:12:43] philadelphia is going to be
[1:12:43] important too.
[1:12:44] >> that's another have you
[1:12:45] talked to them yet?
[1:12:46] We're working on that as well.
[1:12:48] And what have they told you so
[1:12:49] far?
[1:12:50] Uh, we we're literally working
[1:12:52] on setting up the conversation.
[1:12:52] Okay.
[1:12:54] >> could you report back to us
[1:12:55] as you get the information?
[1:12:56] it's going to be helpful to
[1:12:58] look at that as we assess it.
[1:12:59] And let me ask you a question,
[1:13:00] lou.
[1:13:01] You said a minute ago to
[1:13:03] council whether you say we're
[1:13:08] here to do we are here giving
[1:13:10] you what we can do or not what
[1:13:11] we can't do today.
[1:13:12] Yeah.
[1:13:13] What can you tell us today
[1:13:16] about the ordinance as you
[1:13:19] assessed it in terms
[1:13:20] of implementation issues other
[1:13:21] than staffing?
[1:13:24] I think that's difficult and I
[1:13:25] think that that we've
[1:13:26] repeatedly answered that
[1:13:27] question that going further
[1:13:28] than the text of the ordinance
[1:13:30] today without the conversations
[1:13:31] with the folks in philly,
[1:13:32] without the conversations with
[1:13:34] other municipalities makes it
[1:13:35] difficult to answer those
[1:13:36] questions.
[1:13:39] So that is not you know, anyone
[1:13:41] trying to mislead you or
[1:13:42] obfuscate or any.
[1:13:42] >> of that.
[1:13:44] >> it's literally we don't have
[1:13:44] that information.
[1:13:45] We haven't had those
[1:13:46] conversations we want to.
[1:13:48] And in response to your
[1:13:49] question about seasonally
[1:13:51] updating you with information
[1:13:52] will be glad to do that.
[1:13:54] MADAM Chair, MAY I have one
[1:13:55] question or are we going to
[1:13:56] have a second round?
[1:13:58] I mean if we have a second
[1:13:59] round I'm good.
[1:14:01] Just ask you you MAY ask you
[1:14:03] you MAY have additional time
[1:14:05] counselor reverend culpeper you
[1:14:06] MAY ask for additional
[1:14:06] questions.
[1:14:08] From real quick question is
[1:14:10] there a way we could and within
[1:14:14] this ordinance create an
[1:14:15] equivalency or accreditation
[1:14:18] process with a city of value
[1:14:19] evaluator curriculum rather
[1:14:22] than the tax status of the
[1:14:23] organized organization
[1:14:23] delivering it?
[1:14:26] How do we come to use tax
[1:14:28] status as the basis for.
[1:14:29] This training?
[1:14:34] Uh, well counselor, I'll say
[1:14:35] this I you all are the ones
[1:14:36] that are going to pass the
[1:14:38] ordinance and we'll all work
[1:14:38] together to do that.
[1:14:41] So I think, uh, anything is
[1:14:42] possible when you're drafting
[1:14:44] an ordinance as long as it
[1:14:45] conforms to the law and the
[1:14:45] home rule charter.
[1:14:47] .
[1:14:49] >> you mute write about texas.
[1:14:51] But MADAM Chair.
[1:14:52] >> I only answer like I
[1:14:52] answered your question.
[1:14:53] >> in a manner of speaking.
[1:14:54] >> back to it.
[1:14:56] Uh, if there's a second round.
[1:14:58] Thank you.
[1:14:59] >> council culpeper.
[1:15:00] If you have additional
[1:15:03] questions I think that now is
[1:15:04] the time to ask them.
[1:15:06] I've got for this for this
[1:15:07] panel.
[1:15:10] Yeah but I mean are you are you
[1:15:11] going to let them go.
[1:15:12] Now I, I mean.
[1:15:13] >> do any of my.
[1:15:14] >> other colleagues have
[1:15:15] additional questions and I have
[1:15:18] not yet asked my questions so
[1:15:20] uh if you have additional
[1:15:21] questions okay okay.
[1:15:22] Thank you.
[1:15:24] Thank you and I will I will
[1:15:27] start the timer at seven
[1:15:27] minutes.
[1:15:30] Um, and state that I've been
[1:15:32] informed that there are some
[1:15:33] entities that do offer this
[1:15:34] training and they are a
[1:15:35] nonprofit some of our our
[1:15:37] community colleges and so that
[1:15:39] could be I mean I'll defer to
[1:15:41] the sponsor but that could be a
[1:15:43] reason why that that language
[1:15:44] is in the ordinance.
[1:15:47] I believe the reason why you
[1:15:48] respond to this way is that the
[1:15:50] ordinance does originate with
[1:15:50] us.
[1:15:52] And so as counselors, if we do
[1:15:54] want to alter the language,
[1:15:56] probably make it more expansive
[1:15:58] to include for profit or other
[1:16:01] entities that is our ability we
[1:16:03] have that ability to do so in a
[1:16:04] working session as we work on
[1:16:06] the language of the ordinance.
[1:16:08] I'm I'm I was just trying to
[1:16:10] friendly like be friendly and
[1:16:11] answer your question but I do
[1:16:12] have my questions for this
[1:16:14] panel and if there's a second
[1:16:15] round I'll go back to you.
[1:16:16] Thank you.
[1:16:17] Thank you.
[1:16:18] So um I had six questions here.
[1:16:20] My colleagues have asked I
[1:16:22] believe 2 or 3 of them, but,
[1:16:24] um, deputy director sugarman
[1:16:26] broaden what you said when you
[1:16:28] spoke about the your office.
[1:16:30] I wonder how do you see this
[1:16:32] ordinance fitting into the work
[1:16:34] that your office already does?
[1:16:35] How does it fit into sort
[1:16:37] of like the thesis of the
[1:16:39] office of, uh, worker
[1:16:39] empowerment?
[1:16:42] I think it fits with the very
[1:16:43] well within the worker
[1:16:45] empowerment cabinet first and
[1:16:46] foremost through our office
[1:16:47] of labor compliance and worker
[1:16:48] protections.
[1:16:50] It gives us the opportunity and
[1:16:51] strategies to ensure workers
[1:16:54] are safe and that they receive
[1:16:56] the training they need to be
[1:16:59] safe and to be able to do their
[1:16:59] jobs.
[1:17:00] I think that the office
[1:17:01] of workforce development, which
[1:17:03] is a part of the worker
[1:17:05] empowerment cabinet, its
[1:17:07] mission is to ensure that there
[1:17:10] are pathways to good quality um
[1:17:10] careers.
[1:17:12] We invest in training programs
[1:17:13] to the office of workforce
[1:17:14] development all the time.
[1:17:15] We've learned quite a bit
[1:17:16] through that and through
[1:17:17] implementing the neighborhood
[1:17:18] jobs trust.
[1:17:20] So I would lean heavily on the
[1:17:21] experience of office
[1:17:22] of workforce development as we
[1:17:23] move forward with understanding
[1:17:24] how to operationalize this.
[1:17:25] Thank you.
[1:17:26] >> thank you.
[1:17:28] And then um, my colleagues kind
[1:17:31] of asked this question, um, is
[1:17:34] what benefit do you see in sort
[1:17:35] of uh having a level
[1:17:36] of consistency in the type
[1:17:41] of training across um across
[1:17:42] this industry?
[1:17:44] Um, we do know that there was
[1:17:45] an unarmed security guard that
[1:17:46] was recently injured here in
[1:17:46] our city.
[1:17:48] Um, and there's an unarmed
[1:17:50] security guard in new york city
[1:17:52] who was fatally who was fatally
[1:17:55] killed as well, um, at the nfl
[1:17:55] building.
[1:17:57] And so MAY his memory be
[1:17:59] honored in the work that we do
[1:18:00] to try to make sure that, you
[1:18:01] know, when you talk when folks
[1:18:03] ask about the genesis and the
[1:18:05] need for these trainings, I
[1:18:06] think that's where it starts.
[1:18:06] Okay.
[1:18:08] What benefit do you see to any
[1:18:10] sort of standardization either
[1:18:10] lou or jody?
[1:18:13] Uh, so counselor, I think the
[1:18:15] answer to that is um,
[1:18:16] essentially what we have now is
[1:18:17] a patchwork.
[1:18:18] Uh, some of these trainings MAY
[1:18:19] be very good.
[1:18:20] Some of them MAY be
[1:18:21] non-existent, some of them MAY
[1:18:22] be middling.
[1:18:24] But the point is we don't have
[1:18:25] a uniform standard and that's
[1:18:27] why this is beneficial at its
[1:18:27] base.
[1:18:29] That's why this is beneficial
[1:18:30] guarantees a uniform standard
[1:18:32] and everybody knows you know
[1:18:34] what's baked into the training
[1:18:35] and it's promulgated by the
[1:18:35] city.
[1:18:39] Uh so I think that that is the
[1:18:39] overwhelming benefit
[1:18:40] of considering doing this.
[1:18:41] Thank you.
[1:18:42] >> one concern we've heard is
[1:18:44] that the ordinance could
[1:18:45] duplicate trainings and again
[1:18:47] I've spoken to small business
[1:18:47] owners.
[1:18:50] I've spoken to um, some of uh
[1:18:52] our large institutions already
[1:18:53] about this ordinance and I've
[1:18:55] heard their concerns from um
[1:18:58] especially our um, black owned
[1:19:00] uh, companies and know that
[1:19:02] there are especially for our
[1:19:03] small business that there are
[1:19:03] concerns.
[1:19:05] So what could we do?
[1:19:07] Um, is there a way to recognize
[1:19:08] strong existing programs while
[1:19:09] still making sure every worker
[1:19:10] meets the same minimum standard
[1:19:10] ?
[1:19:14] I think it's important to talk
[1:19:15] to those people providing the
[1:19:16] training and find out what they
[1:19:19] have to say and look, uh, a
[1:19:20] good idea is a good idea
[1:19:21] regardless of where it comes
[1:19:21] from.
[1:19:22] So if there's training that
[1:19:24] helps enhance what we're doing
[1:19:25] here or we learn things in the
[1:19:26] industry, that's all work we
[1:19:27] should do.
[1:19:29] Uh, so but to answer your
[1:19:30] question, I think it's
[1:19:31] important to have those
[1:19:32] conversations and understand
[1:19:35] what the landscape is and see
[1:19:36] if there are things that we can
[1:19:37] replicate or take or borrow or
[1:19:37] enhance.
[1:19:40] Um, so that's what I would say.
[1:19:41] Thank you.
[1:19:43] And then what do you think like
[1:19:44] the council especially when we
[1:19:47] talk about um you know for our
[1:19:48] small businesses but and we
[1:19:49] know there are a lot of large
[1:19:52] players here as well um, how do
[1:19:53] we do this work?
[1:19:54] And I'm sure we'll hear
[1:19:55] testimony and we've received it
[1:19:56] as well without creating
[1:19:59] unnecessary barriers of entry
[1:20:01] or of continuation for workers
[1:20:03] and employers, many of whom
[1:20:04] have already expressed that
[1:20:06] they do some some level
[1:20:07] of training already.
[1:20:12] Uh, I would say again
[1:20:14] council those folks we have to
[1:20:15] talk to we have to talk to
[1:20:16] folks about the burdens of this
[1:20:18] and what it in genders and
[1:20:19] ensure that, you know, those
[1:20:21] folks are heard from and that
[1:20:22] they're protected and that
[1:20:24] we're not sort of unnecessarily
[1:20:25] doing something to important
[1:20:26] neighborhood businesses or
[1:20:27] something like that.
[1:20:28] These are just conversations we
[1:20:29] have to have.
[1:20:29] Thank you.
[1:20:30] >> thank you.
[1:20:30] Those are.
[1:20:31] >> my questions.
[1:20:33] i think I did five minutes um
[1:20:36] going to um look to my
[1:20:38] colleagues for any second round
[1:20:38] of questions.
[1:20:40] I see your light and I know
[1:20:41] council coburn MAY have
[1:20:41] questions.
[1:20:43] I was very generous on the
[1:20:44] front end with seven minutes.
[1:20:46] I also do want to make sure
[1:20:47] that we can get to our work uh
[1:20:49] to our to our next panel and I
[1:20:50] then do want to make sure that
[1:20:51] we can get to public testimony.
[1:20:52] I do not have a second round.
[1:20:53] The lead sponsor does not have
[1:20:54] a second round counter flynn,
[1:20:55] you have a second round.
[1:20:56] You have three minutes for that
[1:20:57] second round.
[1:20:58] Thank you.
[1:21:03] >> lou did you reach out to
[1:21:06] beckman on this issue and if so
[1:21:07] what was their response?
[1:21:09] Uh counselor, I think I
[1:21:10] answered that in the first
[1:21:11] instance and said that beckman
[1:21:12] is a group that we need to talk
[1:21:13] to, but we have not yet.
[1:21:14] Okay.
[1:21:16] >> a little I'm just asking you
[1:21:16] a question.
[1:21:18] I'm just respectfully asking a
[1:21:19] question him.
[1:21:20] And I'm pointing out it's a
[1:21:20] question.
[1:21:21] >> I already answered.
[1:21:21] Okay.
[1:21:25] >> so do you want to provide
[1:21:26] any additional information on
[1:21:26] that.
[1:21:27] >> that I've reached out to
[1:21:28] them and that we have in
[1:21:29] contact again?
[1:21:30] Yeah no.
[1:21:31] >> I don't that's all I have to
[1:21:32] say okay.
[1:21:38] Lou what's the status of the uh
[1:21:38] civilian flag positions?
[1:21:47] Uh, we are working so that uh
[1:21:48] there are two aspects of that.
[1:21:50] Uh, there is an rfp that we put
[1:21:54] out uh, relative to an app that
[1:21:56] operates uh, those that uh is
[1:21:57] proceeding along and we are
[1:21:59] also have another uh
[1:22:02] procurement where we have um
[1:22:03] it's been won by the ed davis
[1:22:05] company and we are working
[1:22:06] through uh, the process
[1:22:10] of prospect of setting up uh,
[1:22:13] that program now um, we've had
[1:22:13] um.
[1:22:16] Uh it's been slow largely
[1:22:19] because of the app but um it is
[1:22:20] proceeding apace.
[1:22:23] I can get, uh, more detailed
[1:22:24] information and update you if
[1:22:24] that's helpful.
[1:22:25] Sure.
[1:22:27] >> and let me I have another
[1:22:28] minute left.
[1:22:29] But why don't you think it
[1:22:31] wasn't important for you to
[1:22:32] reach out to beckman?
[1:22:34] Wouldn't they play a critical
[1:22:37] role in ensuring that small
[1:22:39] businesses owned by people
[1:22:40] of color are included?
[1:22:41] Council I I don't know if
[1:22:42] something's getting lost in the
[1:22:43] translation here, but what I've
[1:22:45] said twice is that we've
[1:22:46] reached out to beckman.
[1:22:47] >> I haven't talked to them.
[1:22:49] I'm asking no no no no.
[1:22:49] No no no.
[1:22:50] >> no no no I'm.
[1:22:53] Okay I am now I am I am now
[1:22:54] interjecting councilor flynn
[1:22:56] you have asked a question he
[1:22:56] has answered it.
[1:22:57] If you have an additional
[1:22:57] question.
[1:23:00] Yes I'm asking so why don't you
[1:23:02] think it was important during
[1:23:04] this conversation to reach out
[1:23:05] to black and brown?
[1:23:06] Counselor.
[1:23:07] >> I don't agree with the
[1:23:08] premise of your question.
[1:23:10] We reached out to beckman.
[1:23:11] We haven't had the opportunity
[1:23:12] to talk to them yet, but we
[1:23:13] fully.
[1:23:13] Intend to do so.
[1:23:15] Well I'm asked we.
[1:23:17] Fully intend to talk to beckman
[1:23:17] low.
[1:23:18] I'm asking.
[1:23:19] He has.
[1:23:19] >> asked and.
[1:23:20] >> answered your.
[1:23:21] Question, MADAM Chair.
[1:23:22] I'm being respectful to them.
[1:23:24] I'm asking in a polite manner.
[1:23:25] I'm asking.
[1:23:26] Questions that I feel.
[1:23:27] Are important.
[1:23:30] I do want to ensure that black
[1:23:33] and brown small businesses are
[1:23:34] heard during this discussion.
[1:23:37] I support this proposal well I
[1:23:39] want I know the important role
[1:23:41] security guards do play in the
[1:23:44] city, but I also want to know
[1:23:45] that black and brown.
[1:23:48] Businesses are going to be
[1:23:49] heard during this process.
[1:23:52] I'm being respectful to you but
[1:23:52] I also.
[1:23:55] Expect that you are respectful
[1:23:55] to me as well.
[1:23:56] I am respectful to you.
[1:23:56] Okay you.
[1:23:59] >> sound like the answer is
[1:23:59] yes.
[1:24:01] Okay thank you.
[1:24:02] >> that is time we are thank
[1:24:03] you for being here.
[1:24:04] Thank you jody we are moving on
[1:24:05] to our second panel.
[1:24:07] If you could please have uh,
[1:24:08] kevin brown executive vice
[1:24:10] PRESIDENT Of 32.
[1:24:11] Pj, if you could please have
[1:24:12] stanley watching.
[1:24:15] Uh, security guard if you could
[1:24:16] please have tonya brown powell.
[1:24:17] Oh.
[1:24:20] >> you had okay you had a
[1:24:21] second round of questions for
[1:24:23] the for this panel.
[1:24:24] Well okay.
[1:24:26] Them in writing.
[1:24:28] Thank you thank you
[1:24:29] council thank you and apologies
[1:24:30] but yes thank you for allowing
[1:24:32] us to move on to the second
[1:24:33] thank you when we already have
[1:24:35] a few questions that we have to
[1:24:35] submit in writing.
[1:24:37] So we could just add those on
[1:24:38] and the administration can
[1:24:39] answer thank you.
[1:24:41] If uh the panel can please
[1:24:41] proceed.
[1:24:44] Tanya brown powell, jeff
[1:24:47] franchetti and kim rodriguez.
[1:24:51] We also have virtually with us
[1:24:54] rob cook who will be testifying
[1:24:54] last.
[1:25:08] Good.
[1:25:09] What is now okay.
[1:25:11] No we're still good morning at
[1:25:13] 1125 okay good morning
[1:25:13] everyone.
[1:25:14] Thank you for.
[1:25:14] >> being.
[1:25:14] With us.
[1:25:16] Uh we are going to start this
[1:25:17] panel.
[1:25:18] Um and this is a panel
[1:25:20] of advocates uh we are going to
[1:25:20] start with kevin.
[1:25:22] Kevin, you have the floor and
[1:25:24] then you can hot potato pass it
[1:25:25] to the next person.
[1:25:27] Uh.
[1:25:29] ,thank you, MADAM Chair.
[1:25:32] Uh, thank you,
[1:25:33] COUNCILMAN Santana for
[1:25:33] sponsoring this.
[1:25:35] And, uh, thank you,
[1:25:36] council PRESIDENT Breadon.
[1:25:37] My name is kevin brown.
[1:25:38] I'm the.
[1:25:39] Director of 32 bjc.
[1:25:42] I use new england district and
[1:25:42] we represent.
[1:25:44] 22,000 service workers here in
[1:25:47] the new england area and 8500
[1:25:48] essential workers that work
[1:25:50] here in the city of boston,
[1:25:52] including more than 1800
[1:25:54] officers who work within the
[1:25:54] city.
[1:25:56] Confines who carry out this
[1:25:58] difficult work of keeping
[1:25:59] bostonians safe and secure
[1:26:00] every single day.
[1:26:03] We strongly support this
[1:26:04] ordinance, which would require
[1:26:06] security companies to pay for
[1:26:07] in-person training for all
[1:26:10] unarmed security officers, 40
[1:26:12] hours for new hires and eight
[1:26:14] hours every year thereafter.
[1:26:16] The city would certify the
[1:26:17] training programs as you've
[1:26:19] heard and ensure that they are
[1:26:19] qualified.
[1:26:22] Currently there is no legal
[1:26:23] requirement for unarmed
[1:26:25] security officers for training
[1:26:27] here in boston or in the
[1:26:27] commonwealth.
[1:26:31] In contrast, most states
[1:26:33] nationwide now mandate training
[1:26:34] for unarmed officers.
[1:26:36] This should be a concern for
[1:26:37] all of us.
[1:26:39] Boston is a global hub for
[1:26:42] higher education, life sciences
[1:26:43] and health care.
[1:26:45] These industries, which are
[1:26:47] driving job growth in the city,
[1:26:49] contract heavily from security
[1:26:52] firms and depend on over 9000
[1:26:54] officers as you have heard to
[1:26:55] keep these buildings and
[1:26:56] facilities safe.
[1:26:59] This is grueling work standing
[1:27:02] up hour after hour, day after
[1:27:04] day, paying attention and being
[1:27:06] eyes and ears is grueling work.
[1:27:08] We've heard about hatchet
[1:27:11] fights, machete wielding
[1:27:14] trespassers, overdoses and
[1:27:16] of course lost children and
[1:27:18] security officers a workforce
[1:27:20] primarily made up of people
[1:27:22] of color with 61% identifying
[1:27:24] as black are themselves
[1:27:25] frequently in harm's way.
[1:27:28] In DECEMBER of last year, a
[1:27:30] security officer at boston
[1:27:31] medical center was left in
[1:27:33] critical condition after being
[1:27:35] stabbed by a hospital visitor.
[1:27:37] These types of incidents
[1:27:39] contribute to the high rate
[1:27:40] of turnover we see in the
[1:27:40] industry.
[1:27:42] That means that emergencies
[1:27:44] must frequently be handled by
[1:27:45] newly hired officers who
[1:27:46] haven't been comprehensively
[1:27:50] trained or trained at all,
[1:27:50] despite what the.
[1:27:52] Contractors MAY tell you.
[1:27:55] The best way to combat turnover
[1:27:56] is of course by increasing
[1:27:58] compensation including
[1:28:00] providing quality affordable
[1:28:02] health care and in the meantime
[1:28:04] a robust training standard is a
[1:28:06] good starting point for
[1:28:07] professionalizing boston's
[1:28:08] security workforce.
[1:28:11] This legislation will empower
[1:28:13] security officers to.
[1:28:14] Better protect themselves and
[1:28:16] the public by giving them real
[1:28:17] world skills that they need
[1:28:19] perform their duties including
[1:28:20] life saving first aid
[1:28:23] techniques and conflicts on
[1:28:23] de-escalation.
[1:28:25] It is time that boston joined
[1:28:27] the list of localities that
[1:28:28] have common sense training
[1:28:29] requirements.
[1:28:30] Thank you.
[1:28:32] >> I also want to speak to the
[1:28:33] question that was raised about
[1:28:34] why now?
[1:28:37] Um we intend we are in
[1:28:38] collective bargaining, uh, with
[1:28:39] the security contractors
[1:28:40] of boston at the moment.
[1:28:42] Uh, that contract actually
[1:28:45] expired uh, JULY 31st and we
[1:28:46] intend on tuesday at our next
[1:28:48] bargaining to present to them a
[1:28:50] training program that we have.
[1:28:51] At 32.
[1:28:54] Bjj for tens of thousands
[1:28:55] of officers in the new york and
[1:28:57] new jersey area, uh, which is
[1:28:58] already in place in both new
[1:29:00] york and new jersey have
[1:29:01] requirements for training but
[1:29:02] we don't have that here.
[1:29:05] So the cost of that is $312 a
[1:29:06] month per officer.
[1:29:07] So if a company.
[1:29:09] You know employs 100 people
[1:29:10] that's you know not a lot
[1:29:12] of money so $30,000.
[1:29:14] So uh we think that that's you
[1:29:15] know there's no.
[1:29:17] You can't put a price on safety
[1:29:17] .
[1:29:19] Um and we believe that it's
[1:29:20] high time.
[1:29:21] That we take care.
[1:29:23] Of this and fix this, um, in
[1:29:24] the future.
[1:29:26] And I also want to respond to
[1:29:26] the.
[1:29:26] >> fact.
[1:29:28] That, um, you know, we do have
[1:29:30] too many colleges in the area
[1:29:31] which already have can provide
[1:29:33] this training and also the 32
[1:29:34] B.J. Uh, thomas sherman
[1:29:35] training fund can provide this
[1:29:36] training as well.
[1:29:37] And we'd like to.
[1:29:37] >> make.
[1:29:40] Sure that our members um, those
[1:29:40] 3000 people.
[1:29:41] Um.
[1:29:42] >> could use the training fund,
[1:29:45] uh, and then employers pay for
[1:29:45] it.
[1:29:46] Thank you.
[1:29:48] And now we want to hear from,
[1:29:49] um, our security officers.
[1:29:50] i think we're going to.
[1:29:52] Begin with stanley king.
[1:29:53] Kevin.
[1:29:54] >> um.
[1:29:55] >> thank you.
[1:29:55] Um.
[1:29:56] Good afternoon.
[1:29:57] Um.
[1:29:58] Chair, vice chair.
[1:30:00] And members of the committee
[1:30:01] of government operations.
[1:30:03] My name is stanley watching.
[1:30:03] Third.
[1:30:05] >> I am a security.
[1:30:06] Officer and a member.
[1:30:07] >> of 32 pg.
[1:30:09] And I'm here today in support.
[1:30:10] >> of this ordinance.
[1:30:11] Requiring training.
[1:30:13] For private security officers
[1:30:13] in boston.
[1:30:15] I want to start with a simple.
[1:30:17] Question how can we.
[1:30:19] Expect security officers to.
[1:30:19] Protect the.
[1:30:21] >> public if we're not.
[1:30:22] Given the tools.
[1:30:23] And training.
[1:30:24] >> to protect ourselves?
[1:30:27] When I first started working at
[1:30:28] boston public library I
[1:30:32] received no training and oh and
[1:30:34] it but from day one.
[1:30:36] I was expected to handle
[1:30:38] difficult situations involving
[1:30:40] mental health crisis,
[1:30:41] homelessness, disruptive
[1:30:44] behavior and confrontation with
[1:30:44] patrons.
[1:30:47] I was expected to respond
[1:30:48] professionally and keep
[1:30:49] everybody safe, but no one had
[1:30:51] prepared me for these moments.
[1:30:53] I wanted to do the right thing
[1:30:54] but I often do not know the
[1:30:56] safest or most effective way to
[1:30:56] respond.
[1:30:58] That's not fair to security
[1:30:59] officers and it's not fair to
[1:31:00] the public.
[1:31:02] later when I transfer to
[1:31:05] faneuil hall I only received
[1:31:06] maybe a few hours of training
[1:31:08] before being put on the job.
[1:31:11] Then one day a fight broke out
[1:31:12] between a coworker and a
[1:31:12] patron.
[1:31:16] Only after that incident did
[1:31:17] some additional training begin
[1:31:17] .
[1:31:19] Training should not come after
[1:31:20] someone gets hurt.
[1:31:22] It should come before anyone
[1:31:24] gets hurt so hopefully it never
[1:31:25] happens.
[1:31:28] Boston depends on thousands
[1:31:29] of security officers every
[1:31:30] single day.
[1:31:33] We protect hospitals, libraries
[1:31:36] ,office buildings, hotels,
[1:31:39] schools, laboratories and
[1:31:40] historical landmarks for
[1:31:42] example like friend or hall we
[1:31:43] are often the first people to
[1:31:45] respond before police,
[1:31:47] firefighters or ems arrives
[1:31:49] that responsibility and
[1:31:50] deserves professional employer
[1:31:51] pay training.
[1:31:53] The ordinance will establish a
[1:31:54] citywide training center that
[1:31:57] includes de-escalation, cpr and
[1:31:59] first aid, emergency response,
[1:32:00] mental health awareness report
[1:32:02] writing and skills we need to
[1:32:03] keep ourselves in the public
[1:32:04] safe.
[1:32:07] It raises a standard not only
[1:32:09] for workers but for every
[1:32:10] person that walks through the
[1:32:11] doors of the buildings that we
[1:32:12] protect.
[1:32:14] This isn't just about security
[1:32:15] officers it's about public
[1:32:15] safety.
[1:32:17] It's about making sure workers
[1:32:18] are prepared before a crisis
[1:32:20] happens, not after.
[1:32:23] So today we're calling on the
[1:32:24] boston city council to stand
[1:32:27] with workers who demand and
[1:32:28] stand up for the city every
[1:32:29] single day.
[1:32:31] Let's invest in protection
[1:32:32] instead of reaction less,
[1:32:34] invest in training instead
[1:32:34] of tragedy.
[1:32:37] And let's show boston that
[1:32:38] security officers deserve their
[1:32:41] respect, professionalism and
[1:32:42] support that comes with
[1:32:43] protecting our communities.
[1:32:45] Thank you for your time and
[1:32:46] I'll pass it to my fellow
[1:32:46] colleague.
[1:32:47] Thank you.
[1:32:50] Thank you thank you stanley.
[1:32:52] Um, while there is no clapping
[1:32:54] in chambers I appreciate your
[1:32:55] share your testimony the chair
[1:32:56] recognizes.
[1:32:57] Is it tanya?
[1:32:58] Are you tanya?
[1:32:59] Tanya, you have the floor.
[1:33:00] Okay.
[1:33:01] >> so hello everyone.
[1:33:03] My name is tanya paul brown.
[1:33:05] Um, I've been working at the
[1:33:07] library, uh, for six years now.
[1:33:10] Um, and a proud member of 32 pj
[1:33:10] .
[1:33:15] Uh, I stand along my co um my
[1:33:18] I'm sorry guys, I stand on the
[1:33:20] side my, uh, fellow security
[1:33:24] officers and we're demanding
[1:33:25] better in constant training to
[1:33:27] do our jobs.
[1:33:30] I was intentionally trained on
[1:33:32] line as well as at the library
[1:33:36] on some of more basic
[1:33:38] principles of security making
[1:33:41] rounds, being vigilant.
[1:33:45] But I'll be the first to tell
[1:33:46] you after six years is not
[1:33:47] enough.
[1:33:51] Uh, at my job I have dealt with
[1:33:53] overdose.
[1:33:55] Um, needles.
[1:33:55] Unattended needles.
[1:33:56] Uh.
[1:34:00] >> incidents where there's
[1:34:01] fight.
[1:34:01] Uh, the hatchet fight.
[1:34:06] Um, overdose in bathroom
[1:34:07] overdose outside.
[1:34:08] We have to continuously to call
[1:34:11] the police all the time and not
[1:34:13] every time the police is there
[1:34:14] like right away.
[1:34:16] Um, sometimes it's the
[1:34:18] firefighters and they come
[1:34:20] quicker than the police.
[1:34:23] But, um, just like we have to
[1:34:25] explain to a lot of patrons
[1:34:26] that, um, you know, we do our
[1:34:29] best as we try to make them
[1:34:30] safe and keep ourselves safe.
[1:34:33] Um, it's pretty hard.
[1:34:34] Uh.
[1:34:39] >> uh.
[1:34:42] >> the analyzing the training
[1:34:44] across boston means that the
[1:34:46] security officers are all
[1:34:48] allowed the same protocol
[1:34:50] working more ethically with law
[1:34:52] enforcement when we need to
[1:34:56] when to keep the public safer.
[1:35:03] And as we as we expect the city
[1:35:05] of boston stand with security
[1:35:07] officers and support the
[1:35:07] ordinance.
[1:35:09] Thank you, thank you, thank you
[1:35:09] .
[1:35:10] Tanya, you did a.
[1:35:11] >> you did a great job.
[1:35:11] Thank thank you.
[1:35:12] >> for your testimony.
[1:35:15] Um is next is it jeff.
[1:35:17] Franchetti and.
[1:35:18] You can.
[1:35:19] >> just come up and share one
[1:35:20] of the mics if.
[1:35:23] >> you'd like I can with you
[1:35:23] or.
[1:35:24] >> you can just bring up your
[1:35:25] chair as well and they.
[1:35:26] >> could just make for the.
[1:35:26] >> little people to.
[1:35:29] Steer you.
[1:35:29] >> yeah.
[1:35:30] go ahead.
[1:35:30] Um.
[1:35:33] >> good afternoon.
[1:35:35] Vice chair members of the
[1:35:36] government operations.
[1:35:38] Committee and the city council.
[1:35:39] My name is jeffrey franchetti
[1:35:41] and I'm a student at
[1:35:41] northeastern.
[1:35:44] I'm here today in support
[1:35:45] of this ordinance requiring
[1:35:46] training for private security
[1:35:47] officers in boston.
[1:35:50] And I is all other students
[1:35:51] of northeastern benefit from
[1:35:52] the workers at our school every
[1:35:54] day, whether it's our
[1:35:55] classrooms being ready to learn
[1:35:57] in every day because of our
[1:35:59] custodians or dorms and labs
[1:36:01] being safe to live and work in
[1:36:02] because of our facilities
[1:36:04] workers the people however, who
[1:36:05] allow us to pursue our
[1:36:07] education day or night are our
[1:36:08] security guards.
[1:36:10] The dorms we sleep in are
[1:36:11] protected by them.
[1:36:12] The labs and classrooms we
[1:36:13] learn in are protected by them
[1:36:14] as well.
[1:36:16] And the campus at night whether
[1:36:17] it's we're studying or cramming
[1:36:19] for tests is only accessible
[1:36:20] because of them being there.
[1:36:22] That's particularly important
[1:36:23] to me.
[1:36:24] My student organization meets
[1:36:26] in a building that is open in
[1:36:27] the late hours a night only
[1:36:28] because security is always up
[1:36:29] there.
[1:36:31] Many of us are living away from
[1:36:33] home for the first time, and
[1:36:34] it's reassuring to know that
[1:36:35] security guards always have our
[1:36:36] back.
[1:36:37] They are the first people we
[1:36:39] turn to if we need help.
[1:36:41] We all assume they have basic
[1:36:42] training and know what
[1:36:43] protocols to follow in
[1:36:44] different kinds of emergencies.
[1:36:46] It's surprising to hear that
[1:36:46] that's.
[1:36:47] >> not required by.
[1:36:49] Law, especially at institutions
[1:36:50] where there are additional
[1:36:53] security concerns like at
[1:36:54] hospitals or universities like
[1:36:54] mine.
[1:36:57] And I think this ordinance
[1:36:59] would change that and guarantee
[1:37:00] that these things are
[1:37:02] considered these workers are
[1:37:04] inseparable from me and all
[1:37:05] of my fellow students being
[1:37:06] able to get our education.
[1:37:08] It's important to me that they
[1:37:10] have good jobs, stable income
[1:37:11] and the training to keep
[1:37:13] themselves and us safe and
[1:37:15] that's why I'm here today in
[1:37:16] support of this bill as well as
[1:37:17] a few other students.
[1:37:17] Thank you.
[1:37:18] Thank you.
[1:37:20] >> um.
[1:37:20] .
[1:37:20] I.
[1:37:21] Finally remember my security
[1:37:23] guards at college and they
[1:37:24] really did.
[1:37:26] So thank you for bringing that
[1:37:27] element of being a student.
[1:37:27] I think.
[1:37:27] >> that's.
[1:37:28] Really, really important.
[1:37:31] Um, next we're moving on to sam
[1:37:32] rodriguez.
[1:37:33] Is it rodriguez or rodriguez?
[1:37:34] Rodriguez.
[1:37:35] >> rodriguez okay.
[1:37:36] >> sam rodriguez, you have the
[1:37:37] floor.
[1:37:38] I thank you very much.
[1:37:39] Good morning.
[1:37:40] My name is.
[1:37:41] Samuel gomez.
[1:37:42] Rodriguez junior.
[1:37:44] i've worked in the security.
[1:37:45] Industry for six years.
[1:37:47] I have been.
[1:37:48] Working at northeastern.
[1:37:50] University as a northeast
[1:37:51] security guard for the past
[1:37:52] four years.
[1:37:57] 45 hours a week I patrol the
[1:37:58] premises.
[1:37:58] And help.
[1:38:00] Visitors and respond to.
[1:38:02] Incidents and make sure
[1:38:04] everyone in my building is safe
[1:38:04] .
[1:38:06] Security officers are expected
[1:38:07] to handle all types of.
[1:38:08] Situations.
[1:38:10] >> but many of us receive very
[1:38:11] little training before being
[1:38:13] thrown out into the field.
[1:38:16] When I was hired I was
[1:38:18] fortunate because I had prior
[1:38:18] experience.
[1:38:20] However, a majority of my
[1:38:22] fellow officers do not.
[1:38:25] Turnovers are extremely high in
[1:38:27] this industry because of the
[1:38:29] wages and the benefits to not
[1:38:31] keep up with the cost of living
[1:38:32] here in the greater boston
[1:38:33] area.
[1:38:35] I am thankful to have a job.
[1:38:38] However it can be better.
[1:38:42] We want affordable healthcare,
[1:38:44] livable wages and we want
[1:38:46] proper training so we can keep
[1:38:48] ourselves and the public safe.
[1:38:51] At my work site.
[1:38:53] Incidents always occur.
[1:38:56] Security officers always their
[1:38:58] first people look at us for
[1:38:58] hope.
[1:39:00] They have faith that we know
[1:39:01] what to do.
[1:39:03] But the training we have
[1:39:05] received over the past years
[1:39:06] have mostly involved those
[1:39:08] watching videos on the computer
[1:39:08] .
[1:39:11] It is barely the bare minimum.
[1:39:14] a couple of years ago we
[1:39:16] completed cpr training
[1:39:17] virtually.
[1:39:19] There was no practice dummies
[1:39:21] no real way for us to actually
[1:39:23] practice for this situation.
[1:39:26] Watching a video is not the
[1:39:28] same as knowing what to do in
[1:39:29] this critical moment.
[1:39:32] This ordinance will change that
[1:39:32] .
[1:39:36] This ordinance would change
[1:39:36] that.
[1:39:38] It would mean in-person
[1:39:39] training on topics that
[1:39:41] actually prepare us for the
[1:39:42] reality of the work.
[1:39:44] Security officers are expected
[1:39:44] to perform.
[1:39:48] This would mean employers not
[1:39:49] the workers would pay for the
[1:39:50] training.
[1:39:52] Most of us already struggle
[1:39:53] with paying for the basic human
[1:39:54] right of healthcare.
[1:39:57] We cannot afford to pay for our
[1:39:59] own training as someone who
[1:40:00] does this work every day.
[1:40:03] I can tell you that security
[1:40:04] officers want to be prepared.
[1:40:06] We want to do the right thing
[1:40:08] for everyone especially in
[1:40:09] emergencies.
[1:40:11] Passing this law would help us
[1:40:12] do that.
[1:40:14] Thank you for your time.
[1:40:18] And thank you so much sam for
[1:40:19] your testimony and thank you to
[1:40:20] this panel.
[1:40:22] We will now move on to
[1:40:23] questions from my colleagues.
[1:40:25] Um, there was an additional
[1:40:26] person that I thought was on
[1:40:27] the panel, but they're going to
[1:40:28] be actually for public
[1:40:28] testimony.
[1:40:30] Um, I'm going to start with uh,
[1:40:32] the lead sponsor and I will
[1:40:33] give all of my colleagues now
[1:40:34] five minutes to ask any
[1:40:35] questions of this panel.
[1:40:38] Uh, councilor santana, you have
[1:40:39] the floor and five minutes.
[1:40:40] Thank you.
[1:40:42] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[1:40:44] And thank you, um.
[1:40:46] >> to this, uh, panel for being
[1:40:47] here and being present and
[1:40:49] sharing your, um, uh,
[1:40:50] particularly to to our workers
[1:40:51] .
[1:40:52] Sharing your experiences.
[1:40:54] I know some of you already
[1:40:55] touched it in your opening
[1:40:57] remarks, but, um, you know, can
[1:40:58] you walk me through the
[1:40:58] training.
[1:40:59] >> you received.
[1:41:00] >> when you first hired as a
[1:41:01] security guard?
[1:41:03] What did that training involve
[1:41:04] and how long did it last?
[1:41:06] Any of you can answer.
[1:41:09] I'll start off, um, when I was
[1:41:10] at the boston public library
[1:41:10] for.
[1:41:10] Example.
[1:41:12] >> uh, they had somebody sit
[1:41:13] with me in the tech.
[1:41:14] Center for.
[1:41:15] >> like maybe.
[1:41:16] The day.
[1:41:17] >> just looking at people.
[1:41:18] Then the next day I was by
[1:41:19] myself.
[1:41:20] So that was.
[1:41:21] >> based on a minimum of a
[1:41:21] training.
[1:41:27] I got hired, um, I got hired,
[1:41:31] uh, covid, um, and it was g g
[1:41:32] for us at the time.
[1:41:35] So we didn't get trained at
[1:41:35] all.
[1:41:36] It was just sitting in a
[1:41:37] building watching the door and
[1:41:38] making sure it was closed.
[1:41:40] There was no training at all.
[1:41:44] For me specifically.
[1:41:45] >> on my site.
[1:41:47] I remember my first day it was
[1:41:47] literally.
[1:41:48] >> that point out of the boot.
[1:41:49] So sit in there.
[1:41:52] Uh well technically they didn't
[1:41:52] allow.
[1:41:54] Us really to sit and prefer us
[1:41:56] to walk outside of boot but uh,
[1:41:58] essentially stand around the.
[1:41:59] Boot and that was my
[1:41:59] introduction.
[1:42:00] This is your site you show.
[1:42:01] Up at this time.
[1:42:02] You stand there.
[1:42:06] Then once every while we would
[1:42:06] have like.
[1:42:07] >> I said, uh, just.
[1:42:10] Online classes basically
[1:42:11] teaching.
[1:42:12] Bout of.
[1:42:15] Cpr for example.
[1:42:17] Uh we would have regular
[1:42:19] meetings I would say probably
[1:42:21] once every year essentially uh
[1:42:23] they would mask it as training
[1:42:25] but in reality just from
[1:42:26] observation it was more of a
[1:42:28] way to make sure that the
[1:42:29] company didn't get sued.
[1:42:31] So instead of teaching us
[1:42:32] de-escalation they would just
[1:42:35] tells flat out oh if let's say
[1:42:35] someone's being attacked you
[1:42:37] are not to touch them.
[1:42:39] The most you can do is call uh
[1:42:39] campus police.
[1:42:41] There was really no training no
[1:42:42] .
[1:42:43] Training on how to protect
[1:42:45] ourselves properly without
[1:42:46] violating any laws, how.
[1:42:47] >> to protect.
[1:42:48] The public without violating
[1:42:49] any laws.
[1:42:52] For the most part it was here
[1:42:54] this we workshop on time.
[1:42:55] We expect you to do your.
[1:42:56] Job and also.
[1:42:57] Don't get.
[1:42:58] >> us sued.
[1:42:59] For the most part.
[1:43:00] no, I appreciate that.
[1:43:02] Um and I think I.
[1:43:03] >> really resonated with with
[1:43:04] your answer.
[1:43:05] Uh, you know, I mentioned
[1:43:07] earlier that, um, I was working
[1:43:09] security a few years ago, um,
[1:43:10] overnight and my training
[1:43:13] encompassed just my supervisor,
[1:43:14] uh, sitting with me the first
[1:43:16] two evenings or the first two
[1:43:17] nights that I worked.
[1:43:19] Um, and you know, whatever came
[1:43:20] up during that those two
[1:43:22] evenings is what he showed me.
[1:43:23] Um, but then I was left alone
[1:43:24] after that.
[1:43:25] Um, and obviously different
[1:43:26] encounters happened.
[1:43:28] Um, different days, different
[1:43:28] weeks.
[1:43:32] Um, so, uh no, I really
[1:43:32] appreciate that.
[1:43:34] And then in terms of you know,
[1:43:34] so that you talked.
[1:43:37] To you pointed out some of the
[1:43:39] um, training you received can
[1:43:41] you all share some of the
[1:43:42] challenges day to day
[1:43:43] challenges that you see?
[1:43:45] Um, I know you mentioned um you
[1:43:47] know, you know, needles and um
[1:43:48] and those type of stuff.
[1:43:50] Are there any other challenges
[1:43:51] that you see that you were
[1:43:52] maybe not prepared for.
[1:43:56] Peop people being um, passed
[1:43:58] out in the bathroom sometimes
[1:43:59] locking themselves in the
[1:44:03] bathroom sometimes um being
[1:44:05] completely nude in the bathroom
[1:44:05] .
[1:44:07] Um or they're fighting in the
[1:44:08] bathroom.
[1:44:10] And what are you supposed to do
[1:44:11] in those situations?
[1:44:14] Uh, we are supposed to stand
[1:44:17] down by, um, my fellow security
[1:44:19] officer said, um, make sure
[1:44:21] that we don't step in and just
[1:44:22] call the police.
[1:44:23] And most of the time, like I
[1:44:25] said before, the police take
[1:44:28] their time to come and so we
[1:44:29] just have to stand by and lock
[1:44:30] down the bathroom.
[1:44:31] All right.
[1:44:32] >> anyone else want to check?
[1:44:33] Oh, sure.
[1:44:35] >> so, um, for example.
[1:44:35] >> I.
[1:44:36] Know apparently at the funeral
[1:44:38] hall there's a situation where
[1:44:40] I had a seizure and we I wasn't
[1:44:42] trained cpr at that.
[1:44:43] Time so I didn't know what to
[1:44:43] do.
[1:44:44] >> in this situation.
[1:44:46] So I had to call my colleagues
[1:44:46] who.
[1:44:47] Some of them had minimum
[1:44:48] training maybe.
[1:44:49] Like maybe an hour or two
[1:44:51] of cpr and they were able to.
[1:44:52] Go through.
[1:44:52] >> with.
[1:44:55] That so well um no thank you.
[1:44:56] I know my time is about to come
[1:44:57] up but I do want to thank um
[1:44:59] the whole the entire panel that
[1:44:59] I've met.
[1:45:00] I appreciate the student
[1:45:01] perspective of someone who's
[1:45:02] not security guard above the
[1:45:03] civil services.
[1:45:05] Um, and I also lived on a
[1:45:07] campus, um, once upon a time,
[1:45:09] so I did feel secure.
[1:45:11] Um, I don't know a lot.
[1:45:14] Um, but I do I really
[1:45:15] appreciate the workers being
[1:45:16] here and appreciate the work
[1:45:17] that you do.
[1:45:19] Um, to keep our city, um, safe
[1:45:19] .
[1:45:21] Um, and this was.
[1:45:23] Uh this ordinance was, uh,
[1:45:25] created, um, with you all in
[1:45:26] mind.
[1:45:28] Uh, making sure that you are
[1:45:29] equipped with the proper
[1:45:29] training.
[1:45:30] Um, whether you are first and
[1:45:31] foremost safe.
[1:45:33] Um, but then also the public
[1:45:34] that you're serving are also
[1:45:34] safe.
[1:45:36] So I really appreciate the
[1:45:37] courage, um, that it takes, um,
[1:45:38] to be here to be public
[1:45:39] speaking, um, in front of the
[1:45:40] city council.
[1:45:41] Um, really appreciate that.
[1:45:42] Thank you very much.
[1:45:45] Thank you.
[1:45:46] >> thank you.
[1:45:48] >> um, the chair recognizes.
[1:45:50] Councilor murphy.
[1:45:50] Councilor flynn.
[1:45:51] Um.
[1:45:53] >> council PRESIDENT Lose
[1:45:54] breadon.
[1:45:56] You have the floor and five
[1:45:56] minutes.
[1:45:57] Thank you.
[1:45:58] And thank you all for your
[1:45:59] testimony.
[1:46:01] I really appreciate, um, what
[1:46:02] you said because it gives us
[1:46:03] some insight.
[1:46:04] Into the day to day challenges
[1:46:05] of your.
[1:46:06] Work and how.
[1:46:08] Difficult it is to feel that
[1:46:09] you're, um, haven't had
[1:46:10] adequate training to meet
[1:46:12] whatever comes as I mentioned
[1:46:14] in my remarks earlier, I think
[1:46:16] you know, you can't anticipate
[1:46:18] what you might meet and what
[1:46:19] comes at you in a day's work.
[1:46:22] Um, as an unarmed security
[1:46:22] officer.
[1:46:25] So, uh, I appreciate all the
[1:46:26] great work you do and um.
[1:46:27] Um.
[1:46:32] >> in terms of in terms of uh
[1:46:34] if you're in an incident and
[1:46:35] and you feel that.
[1:46:35] You.
[1:46:37] >> uh, needed more training.
[1:46:39] Who do you go to?
[1:46:41] Do you go to a supervisor or do
[1:46:43] you can you advocate for say
[1:46:44] you know, I really need to have
[1:46:45] a cpr training or I need to do
[1:46:46] for.
[1:46:47] Can you I need first aid
[1:46:50] training or is it a mechanism.
[1:46:52] For actually requesting more
[1:46:53] training on your job?
[1:46:55] So I guess.
[1:46:57] I'm sorry.
[1:46:57] >> go ahead.
[1:46:58] Yes, yes.
[1:46:58] Uh.
[1:47:00] Specifically on my site.
[1:47:02] And I can't speak for everyone
[1:47:02] .
[1:47:03] >> else but I know, uh.
[1:47:05] Northeastern university for
[1:47:07] northeast security we're given
[1:47:08] very little information on how
[1:47:08] to go.
[1:47:09] >> about any of this.
[1:47:11] >> for the most part I see a
[1:47:13] lot of guards confused of who
[1:47:15] to speak to if there even is
[1:47:16] anyone to speak to for any
[1:47:17] of these things.
[1:47:19] For the most part a lot
[1:47:21] of guards unfortunately because
[1:47:23] of this they feel very
[1:47:24] discarded and being down.
[1:47:25] So there's.
[1:47:26] >> a sense of apathy.
[1:47:27] It's come to a certain point
[1:47:30] where most people feel as if it
[1:47:32] is what it is to be very
[1:47:32] honest.
[1:47:35] Do you have a do you have a
[1:47:36] line of command like who's your
[1:47:37] supervisor?
[1:47:38] Do you and check in?
[1:47:41] Do they check in with you on a
[1:47:42] regular basis on how things are
[1:47:42] going?
[1:47:44] For the most part all the time
[1:47:46] supervisors really show up for
[1:47:48] my experiences and experiences.
[1:47:50] my coworkers are either for uh
[1:47:53] shift changes or disciplinary
[1:47:53] reasons.
[1:47:54] Okay.
[1:47:56] >> and in terms of um, your
[1:47:58] work experience so far like
[1:48:00] this for any of you um, in
[1:48:03] terms of what sort of scenario
[1:48:04] is the most challenging for
[1:48:05] you?
[1:48:07] Like I think you mentioned.
[1:48:10] Uh, front for me personally,
[1:48:13] um, having to patrol outside
[1:48:16] and there are two um homeless
[1:48:18] people outside putting needles
[1:48:18] in each.
[1:48:21] Other um, very dangerous
[1:48:22] because they are kept going
[1:48:23] back and forth.
[1:48:26] Um, honestly, I've been at my
[1:48:29] side for six years so I'm going
[1:48:30] to be truthful.
[1:48:33] Um, I trained the supervisor at
[1:48:35] both of the supervisors and my
[1:48:38] manager so at my say we just
[1:48:40] wing it at this point because I
[1:48:41] mean no one knows what they're
[1:48:41] doing.
[1:48:45] Um oh turkeys, repeat the
[1:48:46] question one more time.
[1:48:46] And the.
[1:48:47] >> most.
[1:48:48] Challenging situation you've
[1:48:50] had to deal with so far like I
[1:48:51] know you can deal with all
[1:48:53] sorts of scenarios but what
[1:48:54] what's the one that you feel
[1:48:55] you really didn't feel?
[1:48:57] Oh goodness, I'm not equipped
[1:48:57] for this.
[1:49:00] I'll use a recent example not
[1:49:01] not just from my from my site.
[1:49:02] There's a couple colleagues
[1:49:04] of mine that had to deal with
[1:49:05] uh, protests.
[1:49:05] And it was.
[1:49:06] Hundreds of people at the
[1:49:08] protest and maybe as a
[1:49:09] supervisor and two guards.
[1:49:12] So that situation and they
[1:49:13] could try to call someone
[1:49:14] of like a certain account
[1:49:15] manager or account manager and
[1:49:16] they were nowhere to be found
[1:49:18] or able to respond whatsoever.
[1:49:19] So that was probably the most
[1:49:20] difficult I would say for
[1:49:21] me and my other colleagues.
[1:49:23] And because you haven't had any
[1:49:25] training have no contact, no no
[1:49:27] no skill set as to how to
[1:49:28] respond to a situation like
[1:49:28] that.
[1:49:29] That's correct.
[1:49:31] Yes.
[1:49:33] >> if I MAY also I too often
[1:49:35] times and once again I can't
[1:49:37] speak for my fellow workers
[1:49:39] here but I know on my site a
[1:49:40] lot of times they will try.
[1:49:42] >> to lean on uh.
[1:49:44] The campus police but to be
[1:49:46] very honest and just like you
[1:49:48] said, the police often aren't
[1:49:49] the most responsive.
[1:49:50] I've had.
[1:49:52] Few instances.
[1:49:54] Uh, first time I began working
[1:49:56] there I had someone stuck in
[1:49:58] the elevator for about 30
[1:49:58] minutes.
[1:50:00] I really didn't have any help
[1:50:00] out there.
[1:50:02] There was no supervisors.
[1:50:03] No coworkers.
[1:50:06] Somehow I was able to get the.
[1:50:07] Elevator working.
[1:50:08] Again.
[1:50:09] >> got the person out.
[1:50:12] It took about 30 minutes for
[1:50:14] the police to show up after I
[1:50:15] called them.
[1:50:17] It takes about 15 minutes to
[1:50:18] walk there.
[1:50:20] They use their suvs.
[1:50:21] I've seen them on multiple
[1:50:22] occasions run through red
[1:50:23] lights but for some reason
[1:50:25] during emergencies nowhere to
[1:50:27] be found and once they finally
[1:50:29] showed up and I told them the
[1:50:31] situation was handled it was
[1:50:32] not uh sorry for being late or
[1:50:33] is everyone okay?
[1:50:34] It was literally word for word.
[1:50:37] Uh, next time call us because
[1:50:39] it takes us a while to get here
[1:50:40] and that was the end of the
[1:50:41] conversation.
[1:50:41] Okay.
[1:50:44] >> um thank you for your
[1:50:45] examples.
[1:50:47] I think it gives us some flavor
[1:50:50] of what so in terms of uh, B.J.
[1:50:53] Um 32 bj you you have a
[1:50:54] training program.
[1:50:55] Could you tell us a little more
[1:50:56] about that?
[1:50:57] Oh, sorry, MADAM Chair, can.
[1:50:58] >> you.
[1:50:58] Answer.
[1:50:58] The question?
[1:50:58] Yes.
[1:51:03] >> um, yes.
[1:51:04] The time servant training fund
[1:51:06] ,uh, is a labor management
[1:51:07] training fund, uh, established
[1:51:08] between the employers and the
[1:51:09] union.
[1:51:12] Um, both the security employers
[1:51:13] and, uh, the unions sit
[1:51:15] together to establish it and
[1:51:16] it's been in existence for.
[1:51:18] Um about 50 years.
[1:51:21] Uh, and we train thousands
[1:51:23] of officers in new york and uh,
[1:51:23] jersey.
[1:51:26] Um, and we have you know, we
[1:51:28] training people now in boston
[1:51:30] but not for security because
[1:51:31] the employers don't pay for it
[1:51:31] .
[1:51:35] Um, so uh, you know, all those
[1:51:37] all of these classes and first
[1:51:42] responder cpr um uh um, you
[1:51:44] know how to deal with people
[1:51:45] and overdose all of those
[1:51:47] things is what the the, uh.
[1:51:49] But the program can do the
[1:51:51] initial 40 hour training as
[1:51:52] well as the research every
[1:51:53] eight hours and it's a huge
[1:51:55] program in new york city and
[1:51:56] thousands of officers run.
[1:51:56] >> through it.
[1:51:58] >> we have uh, 20,000 officers
[1:52:00] in new york city who go through
[1:52:02] the program every year, uh, and
[1:52:03] get those those research.
[1:52:04] Thank you.
[1:52:06] >> thank you, MADAM Chair.
[1:52:07] Thank you.
[1:52:08] Uh, council PRESIDENT Bratton,
[1:52:10] uh, the chair now recognizes
[1:52:12] councilor for gerald
[1:52:13] COUNCILMAN Gerald, you have the
[1:52:14] floor and five minutes.
[1:52:15] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[1:52:18] Um, uh, I'll say again as
[1:52:19] always, uh, support uh, workers
[1:52:21] right to unionize and I think
[1:52:22] standards are a good thing to
[1:52:23] measure and uphold
[1:52:23] accountability.
[1:52:25] So always in favor of that.
[1:52:26] And thank you guys for bringing
[1:52:27] this issue to the table.
[1:52:28] Um.
[1:52:31] >> a question around the uh,
[1:52:33] you know, the contract that was
[1:52:35] previously had with security
[1:52:38] guards through the union um,
[1:52:40] and what it says in there about
[1:52:42] training and how you guys feel
[1:52:44] that was upheld, what it says
[1:52:45] in there to what we wanted to
[1:52:47] say in the next contract and
[1:52:48] more importantly to me.
[1:52:49] ,the.
[1:52:51] >> limits that you guys have on
[1:52:53] yourselves right to the job you
[1:52:54] have about cannot touch.
[1:52:56] And with the repeal of rule 400
[1:52:58] and things of that nature, what
[1:53:00] is it that we want added into
[1:53:01] the training that can be
[1:53:03] applicable given some of the
[1:53:04] constraints that you guys have
[1:53:05] to like trying to find that
[1:53:06] middle ground of like what are
[1:53:09] we really asking for in this
[1:53:09] training?
[1:53:11] Uh and I've heard you say I
[1:53:12] mean there's cpr and you know
[1:53:14] and uh and uh overdose training
[1:53:15] and things of that nature I
[1:53:16] think it's all necessary
[1:53:17] because what you guys see every
[1:53:19] day um.
[1:53:20] But what are the.
[1:53:22] Confines that might, uh, the
[1:53:23] training that you would want to
[1:53:24] have that you can't is there
[1:53:27] any, uh, physical limitations
[1:53:28] that you guys are expected to.
[1:53:28] >> go.
[1:53:30] Through to be in order to be a
[1:53:30] security guard?
[1:53:32] Um, things of that nature.
[1:53:35] So just I guess in overall my
[1:53:36] only question is from the
[1:53:37] previous contract to the
[1:53:39] current contract what we want
[1:53:41] to see added uh, maybe what
[1:53:42] lacked in the previous one is
[1:53:44] as we go forward in the current
[1:53:46] one and then what given the
[1:53:47] confines around the laws that
[1:53:49] you guys cannot do, do we want
[1:53:50] to see that training go up to
[1:53:51] to make sure we're focused in
[1:53:52] on giving you training that's
[1:53:54] actually applicable to your
[1:53:54] job?
[1:54:00] So to be clear there's nothing
[1:54:01] in the contract now about
[1:54:01] training.
[1:54:03] Um and we are proposing it to
[1:54:05] the security contractors
[1:54:06] of boston um.
[1:54:07] To to.
[1:54:09] You know, to have that $312 a
[1:54:11] year training fund benefit for
[1:54:12] each uh member.
[1:54:16] Uh, but also we're not trying
[1:54:18] to have a panacea, um, that the
[1:54:19] officers are going to, you
[1:54:21] know, be able to be police.
[1:54:23] That's far from the case.
[1:54:25] Uh, and then, you know, the
[1:54:26] police are going to do the
[1:54:27] police job.
[1:54:31] Um, but we are often there most
[1:54:33] often first and whatever can be
[1:54:35] done in the first minutes
[1:54:37] before the officer arrives.
[1:54:38] Um, you know, those are the
[1:54:39] things that we want to.
[1:54:40] >> try to resolve.
[1:54:43] Um, 40 hours training is not a
[1:54:44] panacea but it's a start.
[1:54:47] So my only thought I was just I
[1:54:48] was trying to read through the
[1:54:48] previous contract, understand
[1:54:50] where we're at and where we can
[1:54:50] go.
[1:54:51] Um.
[1:54:52] >> but there's supposed to be
[1:54:53] some committee that was to be
[1:54:53] formed.
[1:54:54] Maybe it's just never formed
[1:54:55] and that's what I want to be.
[1:54:56] That's what I.
[1:54:57] Wanted it said not it.
[1:54:57] Right.
[1:54:58] But the committee shall be
[1:55:00] formed to discuss issues
[1:55:01] regarding training, safety,
[1:55:03] recruitment, retention
[1:55:03] of officers.
[1:55:05] Uh and the committee MAY meet
[1:55:07] by mutual consent not any less
[1:55:09] than once per year and shall be
[1:55:10] made up of three officers from
[1:55:12] the union and up to three
[1:55:13] representatives from the
[1:55:13] employer.
[1:55:14] So that committee has never met
[1:55:14] .
[1:55:15] No.
[1:55:16] >> thank you very much.
[1:55:18] Thank you the.
[1:55:21] Thank you the chair and I
[1:55:22] recognizes councilor culpeper.
[1:55:25] You have the floor and five
[1:55:25] minutes.
[1:55:26] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[1:55:27] Um.
[1:55:28] >> I wanted to ask the question
[1:55:30] about the training that you do
[1:55:31] in new york.
[1:55:33] How much of that do you do in
[1:55:35] boston or you do none here?
[1:55:35] None.
[1:55:38] >> and what kind of training is
[1:55:40] that in new york and would it
[1:55:42] meet the requirements in the
[1:55:43] ordinance for training?
[1:55:46] Yes it was this was you know,
[1:55:48] sort of modeled after that the
[1:55:50] basic 40 hour initial and then
[1:55:52] eight hours um, recertification
[1:55:53] and really it was modeled.
[1:55:55] Upon what's in new york in new
[1:55:55] jersey.
[1:55:56] What's in new york now?
[1:55:58] Um, and.
[1:56:00] In terms of operationalizing
[1:56:03] it, you heard the discussion
[1:56:04] uh, this morning about some
[1:56:05] of the challenges that they
[1:56:06] would have.
[1:56:09] How long do you think knowing
[1:56:11] what's in the contract would it
[1:56:14] take to actually hire the staff
[1:56:17] ,uh, put a program in place
[1:56:18] and then implement it?
[1:56:20] How far in the future are you
[1:56:22] looking to have this program
[1:56:23] implemented.
[1:56:26] So that the requirements in
[1:56:27] philadelphia initially were a
[1:56:29] very short 30 days but as you
[1:56:31] heard um, in previous testimony
[1:56:33] this would not go into effect
[1:56:34] the requirement to be
[1:56:36] implemented until JULY 2027.
[1:56:38] So it would give, you know,
[1:56:41] whatever 11 months uh, of time
[1:56:41] to.
[1:56:44] Prepare and to get it up and
[1:56:44] running.
[1:56:46] Um, you know, our training
[1:56:47] funds are already in existence.
[1:56:48] We know how to do these
[1:56:49] classes.
[1:56:50] It's the same director and
[1:56:51] assistant director of the
[1:56:53] training fund in new york as it
[1:56:53] is here.
[1:56:55] um, we'd have to have some
[1:56:57] local staff and we often call
[1:57:00] upon, um, retired uh, officers
[1:57:01] ,uh, police officers to assist
[1:57:04] us, um, in the implementation.
[1:57:06] Um, but I do want to stress if
[1:57:08] it's if I MAY also that the
[1:57:09] question earlier was raised
[1:57:11] about why for profit versus non
[1:57:14] profit right right yeah um and
[1:57:14] we you know we.
[1:57:17] There MAY be some cutting
[1:57:19] of corners in a for profit uh
[1:57:21] company versus a nonprofit um
[1:57:22] and whether it's the community
[1:57:24] colleges or the 32 bridge
[1:57:25] training fund or some other
[1:57:27] nonprofit entity max cash I
[1:57:28] know can do training.
[1:57:30] Um, whoever ends up doing the
[1:57:31] training, we think that, you
[1:57:33] know, their incentive would be
[1:57:35] to provide quality training and
[1:57:37] not to make money.
[1:57:40] And so you've been doing the
[1:57:41] training in new york for how
[1:57:41] long?
[1:57:46] Uh, I think since right after
[1:57:50] 911 it was uh 2005 I think.
[1:57:51] Somewhere short.
[1:57:54] >> and do you think that would
[1:57:55] it makes sense for.
[1:57:56] Um.
[1:57:59] >> there to be some kind
[1:58:01] of equivalency or accreditation
[1:58:03] process where the city
[1:58:05] evaluates a curriculum rather
[1:58:09] than the tax status or are you
[1:58:10] stuck on the tax?
[1:58:11] >> I think it's.
[1:58:11] Both I think.
[1:58:13] >> it's both yeah.
[1:58:15] Nonprofit and also for the city
[1:58:16] to evaluate the program and
[1:58:17] make sure it's a quality
[1:58:18] program and.
[1:58:21] You know, because sometimes
[1:58:23] they're they aren't and you
[1:58:24] know, the employers want to do
[1:58:25] the program the you know, do
[1:58:27] training themselves they think
[1:58:28] they have that secret sauce.
[1:58:31] But um, we think that it you
[1:58:32] know, really is much better
[1:58:34] done by in third party.
[1:58:36] And do you think there should
[1:58:39] be some kind of uh credit given
[1:58:45] to if even to uh 30 to B.J. For
[1:58:47] the training and experience
[1:58:50] already because you've been
[1:58:53] doing it for a while and the
[1:58:55] other piece of that is do you
[1:58:57] think there should be some kind
[1:58:58] of grandfathering in for
[1:59:00] companies that are already
[1:59:00] doing the training?
[1:59:03] Um, the ordinance provides that
[1:59:05] every single officer currently
[1:59:06] employed would get certified
[1:59:09] within I forget 90 days I
[1:59:10] believe or 100 and 880 days.
[1:59:13] Um we think everyone needs this
[1:59:15] training and as you've heard
[1:59:17] people are they they MAY be
[1:59:18] working there a long time but
[1:59:19] they're not getting the
[1:59:21] training and this is only one
[1:59:24] week's training initially 40
[1:59:25] hours and it sort
[1:59:26] of establishes a baseline which
[1:59:28] we think would be good for the
[1:59:30] safety of the officers, the
[1:59:32] safety of the residents and the
[1:59:34] citizens of the city of boston.
[1:59:35] So let me ask this another way.
[1:59:37] So stanley's been working for
[1:59:39] how long stanley have been with
[1:59:40] the company a year and five
[1:59:40] months.
[1:59:42] Uh, and tell him that you've
[1:59:43] been working for how long?
[1:59:44] Six years.
[1:59:46] And sam, you've been working
[1:59:47] for how long?
[1:59:48] So with the company.
[1:59:50] Four years and total six years
[1:59:51] for security.
[1:59:53] And so tanya's six years and
[1:59:55] stanley's four years.
[1:59:56] You think they still should
[1:59:59] have to go through a 40 hour
[2:00:00] program knowing that he's been
[2:00:02] doing it for four years?
[2:00:03] Probably could teach it.
[2:00:05] Tanya, uh, mentioned that she
[2:00:07] had taught some of her
[2:00:08] supervisors.
[2:00:09] You think they should still
[2:00:10] have to go through the program
[2:00:12] for certification for the
[2:00:15] initial certification and then
[2:00:18] each year how many hours was
[2:00:18] it?
[2:00:20] Was it it's eight hours each
[2:00:20] year.
[2:00:23] We do okay.
[2:00:25] We do I mean I know.
[2:00:30] That my time already.
[2:00:33] Uh but you MAY.
[2:00:34] You MAY continue uh.
[2:00:36] >> just just as uh, boston you
[2:00:38] know, uh, police officers have
[2:00:39] continuing ed I'm continuing
[2:00:40] training.
[2:00:41] The people need to be
[2:00:42] continually trained.
[2:00:45] Things change over time and yes
[2:00:46] ,we do.
[2:00:47] Okay.
[2:00:48] >> thank you.
[2:00:51] Um, did you want to provide an
[2:00:51] answer?
[2:00:52] I see your light is on.
[2:00:53] Did you want to provide an
[2:00:53] answer?
[2:00:53] No.
[2:00:54] Okay, okay.
[2:00:55] And counselor.
[2:00:56] ,um.
[2:00:58] >> culpeper, did you have a did
[2:00:59] you have an additional
[2:00:59] question?
[2:01:00] Yeah.
[2:01:03] >> I mean I think everyone
[2:01:04] agrees that there's a gap that
[2:01:06] there is no training and that
[2:01:09] there, uh, needs to be
[2:01:09] training.
[2:01:11] I just think part of the
[2:01:14] challenge is the implementation
[2:01:17] and the creating of an office
[2:01:21] for, um, operationalizing this
[2:01:24] uh, within the city and then
[2:01:24] implementation.
[2:01:26] And so the question is when you
[2:01:30] look at operationalizing this
[2:01:31] and you look at the
[2:01:33] implementation from the city,
[2:01:35] how do you see yourself working
[2:01:37] with the city to help get this,
[2:01:40] uh, in place and then
[2:01:40] implementation?
[2:01:43] Um.
[2:01:45] Well, uh, we would you know,
[2:01:47] our training fund would work
[2:01:48] together with the employers and
[2:01:51] the city to make sure that the
[2:01:52] instructors and the times
[2:01:53] of the classes etc. And
[2:01:54] scheduling them and make you
[2:01:57] know, it's a it's a
[2:01:57] partnership.
[2:01:59] You know, the our training fund
[2:02:01] is a labor management, uh, you
[2:02:03] know, employer employee union
[2:02:05] cooperation and we work
[2:02:06] together to implement the
[2:02:08] training and and in this case
[2:02:09] the city would certify that
[2:02:12] that training is um adequate
[2:02:14] and uh, meets the needs.
[2:02:16] And you would charge the for
[2:02:18] the $12.
[2:02:19] Each employer.
[2:02:21] They come for you to pay for
[2:02:21] the.
[2:02:22] Company would.
[2:02:23] >> play okay.
[2:02:24] $312 a year.
[2:02:26] That's what they pay now in new
[2:02:27] york and it would be the same
[2:02:27] here.
[2:02:28] Thank you.
[2:02:30] >> thank you thank you that's
[2:02:30] good bye bye.
[2:02:32] I just have a few questions
[2:02:33] going to start my timer.
[2:02:37] Um, so I want to say thank you
[2:02:38] to everyone who's offered
[2:02:38] testimony.
[2:02:40] um, you all if this was your
[2:02:42] first time, I couldn't tell it
[2:02:42] .
[2:02:43] Uh, you guys, you all were
[2:02:43] great.
[2:02:46] Um, wanted to ask a few
[2:02:49] questions, however, um, so you
[2:02:50] know, this was the last
[2:02:52] question that I asked to the
[2:02:52] first panel.
[2:02:54] So, you know, we received a lot
[2:02:55] of testimony from industry.
[2:02:57] I've had conversations with
[2:02:58] industry and a lot of the focus
[2:02:59] is on cost.
[2:03:01] Um, the push back is on cost
[2:03:03] and the possibility that
[2:03:04] employers your clients could
[2:03:06] reduce security coverage if
[2:03:07] they were if they had to
[2:03:09] implement something um,
[2:03:10] pursuant to this ordinance, how
[2:03:12] do you respond to that concern
[2:03:14] that, you know, having to
[2:03:15] assume and internalize this
[2:03:17] costs will lead to less
[2:03:19] security coverage and what do
[2:03:21] you think is the cost of not
[2:03:22] having a consistent training
[2:03:23] standard for workers, employers
[2:03:24] and the public?
[2:03:29] Well, uh, we work for
[2:03:30] contractors and contractors.
[2:03:32] Um, contract is dependent upon
[2:03:35] the contracting entity and so,
[2:03:36] uh, I would assume that in
[2:03:38] time, uh, that this cost would
[2:03:40] be absorbed by the contracting
[2:03:42] entity, um, as is appropriate.
[2:03:44] Um, this would also serve to
[2:03:45] level the playing field between
[2:03:47] large and small contractors.
[2:03:48] Smaller contractors right now
[2:03:50] have a more difficult time
[2:03:52] providing this training, but
[2:03:53] once it's standardized across
[2:03:55] industry both large and small
[2:03:57] contractors would that would be
[2:03:58] standardized and everyone would
[2:03:59] be on a level playing field for
[2:04:01] training, which we thinks would
[2:04:02] actually help smaller companies
[2:04:03] to grow.
[2:04:06] Um, and uh we think that's a
[2:04:08] you know, can be in many cases
[2:04:09] a very good thing.
[2:04:13] So um, what was the other
[2:04:13] question?
[2:04:15] Um, what it what what is the
[2:04:16] cost of not having consistent
[2:04:17] training.
[2:04:19] Standards not having it and
[2:04:20] it's like the amex commercial,
[2:04:21] you know what's the cost of not
[2:04:23] having training prices?
[2:04:24] Um, okay.
[2:04:25] Uh, I have a question uh,
[2:04:27] that's geared more towards uh,
[2:04:28] security to or towards the
[2:04:29] security guards.
[2:04:32] Um, what made you decide to get
[2:04:33] into this into your current
[2:04:34] line of employment?
[2:04:35] What was the decision to become
[2:04:35] a security guard?
[2:04:39] I guess that's both to, uh to
[2:04:39] tania.
[2:04:40] Yeah.
[2:04:41] Uh, so honestly.
[2:04:43] Um, be 100%.
[2:04:43] Honest.
[2:04:44] >> I wanted.
[2:04:47] To just, you know, experience
[2:04:48] something new.
[2:04:51] Um, outside of before doing my
[2:04:53] security, I was at boston ball
[2:04:55] and I was the cash register, so
[2:04:57] I wanted to try something new.
[2:04:58] To just.
[2:05:00] You know, have the ball rolling
[2:05:03] but also, um, being a part
[2:05:05] of the public a little bit
[2:05:05] more.
[2:05:07] I do spend my time upstairs
[2:05:09] with the kids at my job a lot
[2:05:12] so I just wanted something new,
[2:05:14] something that would be okay to
[2:05:17] secure people and just remind
[2:05:18] them that they're safe.
[2:05:21] Thank you stanley or I mean you
[2:05:22] don't have to answer the
[2:05:23] question, but it's stanley sam,
[2:05:24] if either of you guys I'm sure.
[2:05:26] So for me, uh, I was out
[2:05:27] of work for a little bit prior
[2:05:27] to that.
[2:05:28] Prior that I was doing, uh,
[2:05:29] government work.
[2:05:31] Um, for green maybe getting
[2:05:32] into the industry is, uh it's.
[2:05:34] Fortunately just don't want
[2:05:35] hire me after.
[2:05:36] Oh hire me.
[2:05:38] So at the time, uh, as time
[2:05:40] went on I've like I already had
[2:05:42] experience in security but it
[2:05:43] does help me.
[2:05:44] Uh, they taught me a lot.
[2:05:44] >> about how to.
[2:05:47] Interact with people, talk and
[2:05:47] de-escalate.
[2:05:50] Situations and hopefully turn
[2:05:50] into something different.
[2:05:52] >> so I think.
[2:05:54] Uh, for me personally I started
[2:05:56] going into security because I
[2:05:57] already had some prior
[2:05:59] experience working for other
[2:06:01] jobs and to be very honest I
[2:06:02] was just looking for steady
[2:06:05] work, steady income uh, to be
[2:06:06] honest they had benefits the
[2:06:07] specific site.
[2:06:10] And a decent wage um could be
[2:06:12] better in the greater boston
[2:06:14] area but for my current
[2:06:15] situation it was better than
[2:06:16] nothing to be completely
[2:06:16] honest.
[2:06:19] Thank you and thank you for
[2:06:20] offering that and thank you for
[2:06:21] keeping the people and
[2:06:23] buildings that you work at safe
[2:06:23] .
[2:06:25] It's also great to know that we
[2:06:27] have the experience on the
[2:06:27] council of three former
[2:06:28] security guards who can bring
[2:06:30] their own lived experience into
[2:06:33] this my my older sister one
[2:06:34] of her first jobs was as a
[2:06:35] security guard as well.
[2:06:37] And so I know that for a lot
[2:06:38] of folks working class folks
[2:06:39] this is an important job.
[2:06:42] Um and it's a job that many
[2:06:44] people, you know, end up having
[2:06:45] and it's an important one that
[2:06:46] is worthy of having, uh, the
[2:06:47] training necessary.
[2:06:49] Um, I asked that question in
[2:06:50] part because I think one of the
[2:06:52] goals here is to try to treat
[2:06:54] security work more like a
[2:06:55] profession.
[2:06:56] And so I'm wondering should the
[2:06:57] training credential belong to
[2:06:58] the worker or follow them from
[2:06:59] employer to employer?
[2:07:01] Have you have we thought about
[2:07:02] that and what could that look
[2:07:04] like to and especially in terms
[2:07:05] of creating a career path for
[2:07:06] people?
[2:07:08] Yeah yeah I mean I'm most
[2:07:10] familiar with new jersey which
[2:07:11] is where I work before and you
[2:07:13] would get the called your saw a
[2:07:14] license and so once you had
[2:07:16] that 40 hours initial you'd
[2:07:17] have you saw a license and it
[2:07:19] had to be renewed and it didn't
[2:07:20] matter which employer you were
[2:07:22] with it went from person to
[2:07:22] person.
[2:07:25] So I assume that that this
[2:07:26] that's what this training would
[2:07:26] be.
[2:07:28] Thank you.
[2:07:30] Um, do any of my colleagues
[2:07:32] when I, uh the lead sponsor do
[2:07:33] you have any okay, I'm done
[2:07:34] with my time.
[2:07:35] Do you have any follow up
[2:07:36] questions for this panel?
[2:07:37] Okay.
[2:07:38] Thank you.
[2:07:39] I want to thank this panel for
[2:07:39] being here.
[2:07:40] I want to thank you for your
[2:07:41] work and your testimony and the
[2:07:42] work that you do on behalf
[2:07:44] of the residents and out here
[2:07:45] in the city of boston.
[2:07:46] This is just the beginning and
[2:07:48] we'll continue to have ongoing
[2:07:49] conversations to have an
[2:07:50] inclusive dialog to make sure
[2:07:52] that we work and get the
[2:07:53] language and the meaning
[2:07:54] of this um, ordinance right.
[2:07:57] Uh, kevin, you have some final
[2:07:57] remarks that you'd like to
[2:07:58] offer.
[2:08:00] I just wanted to say thank you,
[2:08:02] MADAM Chair louijeune and
[2:08:03] COUNCILMAN Santana for
[2:08:04] sponsoring this.
[2:08:04] Thank you.
[2:08:05] >> thank you, thank you.
[2:08:06] Thanks everyone.
[2:08:18] Thank you.
[2:08:20] >> my I do also want to I
[2:08:22] mentioned several times the
[2:08:24] security guard who passed in uh
[2:08:25] new york city and I failed to
[2:08:27] say his name so I just want to
[2:08:28] make sure I just honor the
[2:08:29] memory of I wanted to end in
[2:08:31] this meeting in this in this
[2:08:33] hearing we are now moving on to
[2:08:34] public testimony.
[2:08:38] Um, tribal testimony will be
[2:08:40] called in the order of arrival.
[2:08:43] Um, each person will have two
[2:08:44] minutes to offer public
[2:08:45] testimony.
[2:08:46] As you can see I have not been
[2:08:47] lethal with the timer today but
[2:08:49] if we could try to keep to the
[2:08:50] two minutes that would be
[2:08:51] great.
[2:08:52] Um, first on the list for
[2:08:54] public testimony is um irby
[2:08:55] duran.
[2:08:56] Uh, irby.
[2:08:58] Hello, I want you you have the
[2:08:59] floor in two minutes.
[2:09:01] Um.
[2:09:02] >> good morning.
[2:09:03] good morning, MADAM Chair.
[2:09:05] Um, my name is herbert
[2:09:06] duvernay.
[2:09:08] I'm the founder of and ceo
[2:09:09] of one worker group.
[2:09:12] Well, boston based security
[2:09:14] company employing approximately
[2:09:15] one 200 people.
[2:09:17] I want to make something clear
[2:09:20] from the beginning I believe in
[2:09:21] training and training and
[2:09:23] workforce development.
[2:09:24] Uh, actually part of my
[2:09:24] business.
[2:09:27] But I'm concerned that the
[2:09:29] ordinance will unintentionally
[2:09:31] hurt two groups small and
[2:09:34] disadvantaged businesses trying
[2:09:36] to compete and people who need
[2:09:38] flexible part time work to get
[2:09:38] ahead.
[2:09:40] I know both up.
[2:09:43] Personally I came to this
[2:09:45] country from haiti when I was
[2:09:45] 20 years old.
[2:09:47] I didn't speak a word
[2:09:49] of english, I cleaned bathrooms
[2:09:51] ,I drove a cab, I work in
[2:09:52] grocery store.
[2:09:54] I did whatever job I could find
[2:09:56] when I enrolled at northeastern
[2:09:58] university I didn't even know
[2:09:59] what I wanted to study.
[2:10:01] Then somebody gave me an
[2:10:03] opportunity to work security at
[2:10:05] dana-farber I receive an
[2:10:07] orientation and basic training
[2:10:11] and then I learn on the job.
[2:10:13] Supervisors and mentors coached
[2:10:15] me, corrected me and wanted
[2:10:16] me to succeed.
[2:10:19] That opportunity changed my
[2:10:19] life.
[2:10:21] I discovered that security
[2:10:23] could become my profession.
[2:10:25] I chose criminal justice,
[2:10:28] earned my bachelor's degree and
[2:10:29] master's degree from
[2:10:31] northeastern university, move
[2:10:33] into management and executive
[2:10:35] leadership and eventually
[2:10:38] founded my own security
[2:10:38] company.
[2:10:40] My career did not start.
[2:10:42] With a card.
[2:10:43] >> of 40 hours checklist.
[2:10:45] It started because somebody
[2:10:48] give me an opportunity that is
[2:10:50] the concern me about this
[2:10:52] ordinance today look at the
[2:10:53] people we hire.
[2:10:56] We hire students, we hire
[2:10:58] immigrants, we hire people
[2:11:00] working on a job we hire people
[2:11:02] would need a weekend or a part
[2:11:04] time job and we want people we
[2:11:06] want to help people to pay
[2:11:06] their bills.
[2:11:09] These are people are actually
[2:11:09] employees.
[2:11:12] Now imagine a student who wants
[2:11:13] to work.
[2:11:16] Security on weekends or someone
[2:11:17] already working a full time job
[2:11:20] who want an additional 15 hours
[2:11:23] a week with before they can
[2:11:25] access the opportunity they now
[2:11:28] have to five 40 hours of time
[2:11:30] so they can they can get the
[2:11:30] training going.
[2:11:33] I do believe that this
[2:11:35] ordinance will be a
[2:11:36] disadvantage to make companies
[2:11:38] like my be competitive because
[2:11:40] it's hard to do that even
[2:11:42] though we did that big event
[2:11:45] that we see outside my firm
[2:11:49] hire and train 100 and I 190
[2:11:51] people and five weeks due to
[2:11:52] the fifa world cup.
[2:11:54] We train our people, we have
[2:11:55] our secret sauce.
[2:11:57] We think that training should
[2:11:59] be something internal because
[2:12:00] that's what companies are going
[2:12:01] to need so they can thrive and
[2:12:02] do better.
[2:12:05] And also for the record myself
[2:12:08] and other minority company
[2:12:10] we're not invited to be on a
[2:12:13] panel at all which I think is a
[2:12:14] disgrace because if we're doing
[2:12:17] this work and we want to help
[2:12:19] security company I wonder what
[2:12:21] people it's a simple thing to
[2:12:23] call the security and small
[2:12:24] business that do business in
[2:12:27] the city and have them sit down
[2:12:28] so they can have that
[2:12:30] discussion and as far as I know
[2:12:32] back my was not informed as
[2:12:32] well.
[2:12:33] Just for the record I want to
[2:12:34] make that clear.
[2:12:35] Thank you.
[2:12:36] Thank you.
[2:12:39] Um we are now moving on to uh,
[2:12:41] zoom testimony someone who was
[2:12:43] on a time constraint that steve
[2:12:45] amity you have the floor and
[2:12:49] you have two minutes.
[2:12:49] Um.
[2:12:54] Starting now.
[2:12:57] Uh, you're sorry steve, if you
[2:12:58] could start over because I
[2:12:58] believe you're muted.
[2:13:00] Thank you.
[2:13:01] >> members of the committee.
[2:13:02] My name is steve amata and I'm
[2:13:04] the executive director of the
[2:13:05] national association
[2:13:07] of security companies nasco in
[2:13:08] boston.
[2:13:09] Nasco members employ thousands
[2:13:10] of trained security officers,
[2:13:12] receive initial on the job
[2:13:14] client and site specific and
[2:13:15] recurrent training that enables
[2:13:17] them to successfully perform
[2:13:18] the security tasks required
[2:13:20] of them as laid out in client
[2:13:22] contracts as specified in site
[2:13:22] post orders.
[2:13:25] Nasco believes that all persons
[2:13:26] performing security service
[2:13:27] should undergo baseline
[2:13:29] training but for structural,
[2:13:30] substantive and practical
[2:13:32] reasons stock at 1541 the
[2:13:33] ordinance is not appropriate.
[2:13:35] a vehicle for attaining such.
[2:13:35] >> a goal.
[2:13:37] Has currently drafted as herbie
[2:13:38] just said it will deter persons
[2:13:39] from entering the field.
[2:13:42] Uh it will uh it will cause
[2:13:44] nonprofits and other clients
[2:13:46] who have set security budgets
[2:13:48] to decrease their uh, security
[2:13:49] services because they will not
[2:13:50] be able to absorb the
[2:13:52] additional costs that the
[2:13:54] training will require them to
[2:13:54] pay.
[2:13:56] And perhaps most significantly,
[2:13:58] the ordinance fails to
[2:13:59] comprehend the enormity and
[2:13:59] difficulty of the task.
[2:14:01] At hand.
[2:14:02] There's been some discussion,
[2:14:03] but I think you've got to
[2:14:04] understand that this ordinance
[2:14:06] is assigning all authority and
[2:14:08] responsibility for a 40 hour
[2:14:10] training program to an office
[2:14:11] that has no experience in
[2:14:12] developing, certify and
[2:14:14] implementing administering
[2:14:15] overseeing training programs
[2:14:17] nor is any experience related
[2:14:18] to private security.
[2:14:20] One just needs to look at
[2:14:21] philadelphia to see that this
[2:14:23] is a problematic formula.
[2:14:25] In philadelphia in MARCH a law
[2:14:26] became effective that requires
[2:14:28] all new unarmed security
[2:14:29] officers to undergo a 12 hour
[2:14:31] training requirement and assign
[2:14:33] that task to its office
[2:14:34] of workers protection like the
[2:14:35] ordinance does.
[2:14:37] But now, five months later,
[2:14:38] there's not a single recognized
[2:14:40] security training program for a
[2:14:42] 12 hour program far less than a
[2:14:43] 40 hour program.
[2:14:45] And also the city has proposed
[2:14:47] it implementation indefinitely
[2:14:48] and it's estimated that
[2:14:49] implement implementing
[2:14:50] regulations will not be
[2:14:52] available for review until
[2:14:52] 2028.
[2:14:54] Uh one has to seriously
[2:14:56] question the reality and
[2:14:58] feasibility of implementing the
[2:15:00] bill, you know, in boston.
[2:15:01] And I'll note that the philly
[2:15:03] bill started out as a bill
[2:15:05] almost identical to this bill
[2:15:07] and in the end it was after
[2:15:08] much consideration with.
[2:15:10] Industry and the players errors
[2:15:12] reduced to a 12 hour initial
[2:15:13] requirement an eight hour
[2:15:15] recurring requirement with an
[2:15:18] emphasis on use of force
[2:15:21] de-escalation uh cpr, first aid
[2:15:23] communication and other vital
[2:15:23] skills.
[2:15:25] Relatedly, the ordinance does
[2:15:27] not provide additional staffing
[2:15:28] and appropriations and I would
[2:15:31] note that in minnesota at 2025
[2:15:32] they tried to increase training
[2:15:34] from 12 hours to 40 hours with
[2:15:36] a similar bill and it was
[2:15:37] estimated that it would take
[2:15:38] eight full time staff and a
[2:15:40] budget of well over $1 million
[2:15:42] to get that program rolling.
[2:15:44] Finally, the ordinance somewhat
[2:15:46] infers that security officers
[2:15:47] based on a minimum amount
[2:15:48] of required training will have
[2:15:50] a duty to engage with violent
[2:15:52] individuals people in mental
[2:15:53] health crises or people
[2:15:54] impaired by substance that is
[2:15:56] wrong, dangerous and not.
[2:15:57] It's for growing role
[2:15:58] of security officer.
[2:16:01] As the rep said security
[2:16:02] officers are the eyes and ears.
[2:16:04] They are not police officers,
[2:16:05] emts, drug counselors or mental
[2:16:07] health crisis responders who go
[2:16:09] hundreds of hours of training
[2:16:10] and encouraging officers to get
[2:16:11] involved in dangerous
[2:16:11] situations.
[2:16:13] Cancer post orders puts
[2:16:14] officers and bystanders at
[2:16:17] physical risk and also exposes
[2:16:18] officers and their companies to
[2:16:20] legal and civil liability.
[2:16:21] We look forward to working with
[2:16:23] the council to come up with
[2:16:24] some common sense legislation.
[2:16:25] Thank you, thank you.
[2:16:28] The chair recognizes gregory
[2:16:28] maynard.
[2:16:31] Uh, you have the floor in two
[2:16:31] minutes.
[2:16:34] Thank you so much.
[2:16:36] Uh, my name is gregory maynard
[2:16:37] and I am the executive director
[2:16:38] of the boston policy institute
[2:16:38] .
[2:16:40] Why is this hearing happening
[2:16:42] now that's an important
[2:16:43] question to ask because this
[2:16:44] hearing is unusual.
[2:16:47] It happened fast in a chamber
[2:16:48] where dockets typically don't
[2:16:50] move very quickly especially
[2:16:51] one like this which is not a
[2:16:53] time sensitive mayoral
[2:16:54] appointment or a piece of city
[2:16:56] hall legislation but instead a
[2:16:58] docket offered by a city
[2:16:59] councilor in AUGUST.
[2:17:01] How fast did this hearing
[2:17:01] happen?
[2:17:03] This docket was offered less
[2:17:04] than a week ago on AUGUST 5th.
[2:17:06] It was scheduled for a hearing
[2:17:08] on AUGUST 6th and now the
[2:17:10] hearing is happening today,
[2:17:10] AUGUST 11th.
[2:17:12] That means this docket cut
[2:17:14] dozens of other dockets in
[2:17:14] line.
[2:17:16] That is a choice that comes
[2:17:18] with an opportunity cost best
[2:17:19] demonstrated using examples
[2:17:21] of the government operations
[2:17:22] committee and the public safety
[2:17:22] committee.
[2:17:24] as of the last council meeting
[2:17:26] on AUGUST 5th, the government
[2:17:27] operations committee which is
[2:17:29] holding this hearing had 30
[2:17:30] dockets before it without
[2:17:31] hearing scheduled.
[2:17:33] That includes an ordinance from
[2:17:35] councilor pepen on the use
[2:17:36] of school bus violation
[2:17:38] detector um detection
[2:17:39] monitoring system devices
[2:17:41] weapons ordinance was first
[2:17:43] offered in 2025 but didn't get
[2:17:44] a hearing last year either.
[2:17:46] The public safety committee,
[2:17:47] which is chaired by henry
[2:17:49] santana, the lead sponsor
[2:17:51] of this docket, had 25 dockets
[2:17:53] without hearing scheduled as
[2:17:53] of AUGUST 5th.
[2:17:55] That number doesn't include the
[2:17:58] public safety briefing that the
[2:17:59] council demanded in a unanimous
[2:18:01] vote, including every
[2:18:02] councilor who's asked a
[2:18:03] question at this hearing back
[2:18:03] on JULY 8th.
[2:18:06] Right now, boston is facing a
[2:18:08] variety of pressing issues from
[2:18:10] the deadliest summer in several
[2:18:12] years to an emotional and
[2:18:13] policy heavy street safety
[2:18:14] conversation.
[2:18:16] More pressing issues are coming
[2:18:17] the first day of school is less
[2:18:19] than a month away, and the
[2:18:20] district has told the school
[2:18:21] committee that another round
[2:18:22] of school closures are coming.
[2:18:24] The council hasn't held
[2:18:26] hearings on any of those issues
[2:18:27] this summer.
[2:18:29] Instead this hearing is
[2:18:29] happening.
[2:18:30] Thank you so much.
[2:18:31] Thank you.
[2:18:33] Uh, the chair recognizes david.
[2:18:37] David, you have the floor and
[2:18:37] two minutes.
[2:18:43] Uh good afternoon everyone.
[2:18:44] my name is david console.
[2:18:46] I'm a co-founder of recon
[2:18:47] security along with alongside
[2:18:48] with my business partner, uh,
[2:18:49] jesse rivera.
[2:18:51] Uh, I want to start out by
[2:18:52] saying I believe in training.
[2:18:54] We train everyone that we
[2:18:54] employ.
[2:18:56] I work security myself.
[2:18:59] Uh, as an immigrant in college
[2:19:00] playing college football, I
[2:19:02] played d3 so I had to work.
[2:19:04] I worked overnight shifts and I
[2:19:05] go straight and play a full
[2:19:06] college football game.
[2:19:09] Um, so I understand the
[2:19:11] importance of just properly
[2:19:11] preparing.
[2:19:14] I worked all kinds of security
[2:19:14] .
[2:19:15] I've been a bouncer at clubs so
[2:19:17] I've seen every kind
[2:19:18] of scenario when it comes to
[2:19:20] security in addition to being
[2:19:21] an employer.
[2:19:23] Uh, I started this company when
[2:19:24] I was 26.
[2:19:26] So I get in these rooms and I'm
[2:19:29] the only one at this age.
[2:19:30] I have gray hair.
[2:19:31] That's just why I'm coming
[2:19:32] along from here on in this
[2:19:32] business.
[2:19:35] But I'm still very young and um
[2:19:37] ,when we built the company
[2:19:41] from the ground up we face a
[2:19:42] lot of like balancing payroll,
[2:19:45] staffing, insurance and
[2:19:45] competing against national
[2:19:46] companies.
[2:19:48] I've been able to win bigger
[2:19:50] contracts only because
[2:19:51] relationships I played college
[2:19:52] football so I know people and
[2:19:53] that's the only reason why, um
[2:19:56] ,when it comes to bidding out
[2:19:58] we're getting priced out so you
[2:20:00] add certain things like this if
[2:20:01] it's not implemented the right
[2:20:03] way, uh, it begins to hurt us.
[2:20:06] Um, I've seen other instances
[2:20:08] where a lot of people don't
[2:20:10] want to pay for security just
[2:20:11] another line item.
[2:20:13] So when we passed the cost
[2:20:15] passed the cost off to the
[2:20:17] client then they're like they
[2:20:18] they just go in-house.
[2:20:20] So that hurts us as well.
[2:20:22] Um.
[2:20:26] My partner he came from
[2:20:27] florida, uh, where he seen
[2:20:29] models where the training costs
[2:20:31] are passed off to the employee
[2:20:32] to different economies from
[2:20:35] boston and uh, florida.
[2:20:36] I don't think that's the
[2:20:36] answer.
[2:20:38] Philadelphia has its issues.
[2:20:40] Um, I'll be candid.
[2:20:42] This process happened very
[2:20:42] quickly.
[2:20:44] I'm an employer directly
[2:20:46] affected by this ordinance and
[2:20:47] I didn't know it was being
[2:20:49] considered until recently.
[2:20:51] If I didn't know, I imagine
[2:20:52] there are other employers who
[2:20:53] haven't had the opportunity to
[2:20:53] provide.
[2:20:55] So I'm asking the city
[2:20:56] council to give employers
[2:20:57] employees training
[2:20:59] professionals and particularly
[2:21:00] small and minority owned
[2:21:03] businesses more opportunity to
[2:21:04] participate in this
[2:21:04] conversation.
[2:21:08] Training is important but
[2:21:09] implementation, affordability
[2:21:10] and accessibility are just as
[2:21:10] important.
[2:21:12] Let's make sure we get all
[2:21:12] through right before moving
[2:21:13] forward.
[2:21:16] Thank you.
[2:21:19] Um I see a name here but I feel
[2:21:20] like they've already talked.
[2:21:20] Is it?
[2:21:22] yeah, he was on the jeff what?
[2:21:23] Uh, you this is just signing
[2:21:23] in.
[2:21:24] Okay, great.
[2:21:24] Yep.
[2:21:25] Okay.
[2:21:25] Um.
[2:21:26] Liam o'connell.
[2:21:33] You have the floor in two
[2:21:34] minutes.
[2:21:35] Thank you.
[2:21:35] >> very much.
[2:21:36] Uh.
[2:21:36] Be brief.
[2:21:37] My name is liam o'connell.
[2:21:38] >> of the law firm.
[2:21:39] >> mclennan.
[2:21:40] >> I represent, uh, securitas.
[2:21:41] Security services.
[2:21:42] Uh, we.
[2:21:43] >> found out.
[2:21:43] >> about this.
[2:21:45] Uh, hearing yesterday, so
[2:21:47] apologies for not having, uh,
[2:21:47] pre-prepared remarks.
[2:21:49] I've sat here and listened to
[2:21:50] all the testimony and really
[2:21:51] just want to echo a few points.
[2:21:52] That were made.
[2:21:54] Securitas has.
[2:21:55] >> a long standing.
[2:21:56] Reputation in the security
[2:21:56] industry.
[2:21:58] It's committed to training its
[2:21:58] employees.
[2:21:58] It has a.
[2:22:00] Positive relationship with its
[2:22:02] union brethren at 32 bjj we
[2:22:04] don't oppose training but we do
[2:22:04] oppose this.
[2:22:05] Ordinance as it presently.
[2:22:06] Uh presented.
[2:22:08] Um there's.
[2:22:09] >> a legitimate.
[2:22:09] Question about.
[2:22:11] >> the state and federal and.
[2:22:14] State or uh city implications
[2:22:14] of this.
[2:22:15] >> uh, to my knowledge.
[2:22:17] >> there are 41 states in the
[2:22:17] union.
[2:22:18] They require security training.
[2:22:19] Those are states, not cities.
[2:22:21] Uh, there's been much talk
[2:22:22] about philadelphia and the
[2:22:24] experience in philadelphia with
[2:22:25] the city ordinance and how
[2:22:26] they've had to scale back what
[2:22:28] was initially proposed in the
[2:22:30] ordinance the 40 hours to 12
[2:22:31] they now are grandfathering
[2:22:32] exit training that was already
[2:22:35] uh conducted as uh council uh
[2:22:37] person uh cole pepper was
[2:22:38] questioning about not.
[2:22:38] >> all.
[2:22:40] The training now is required in
[2:22:42] person but at at some core
[2:22:43] level there is a legitimate
[2:22:45] issue here that much of the
[2:22:46] discussion here today and the
[2:22:47] proposals that are contained
[2:22:49] within the ordinance takes the
[2:22:51] private security function in a
[2:22:53] direction that becomes more
[2:22:55] like a quasi public safety
[2:22:56] role.
[2:22:57] That is not what we do,
[2:22:58] certainly not in all locations.
[2:23:00] In fact we have some clients
[2:23:01] universities in example that
[2:23:03] have their own police force.
[2:23:05] Uh, we have restrictions on
[2:23:07] what our people can do by way
[2:23:09] of security and they can't get
[2:23:11] involved in certain uh,
[2:23:13] incidents and their job is to
[2:23:14] just reported to the police
[2:23:15] either uh, the university
[2:23:17] police, for example, or public
[2:23:18] authorities.
[2:23:19] Uh, and moreover there's been
[2:23:21] some discussion of this already
[2:23:23] a mr amini made the the uh the
[2:23:26] point that our officers and our
[2:23:28] employers don't enjoy uh,
[2:23:30] immunity from um, civil
[2:23:32] litigation, uh, for getting
[2:23:34] involved in such incidents.
[2:23:37] So we respectfully urge the
[2:23:38] council to take more time to
[2:23:40] consider the number of items
[2:23:41] that were discussed here today
[2:23:42] that remain open, including
[2:23:44] whether the infrastructure
[2:23:46] exists to do this training.
[2:23:47] Thank you.
[2:23:53] Thank you.
[2:23:55] Next up we have terry williams
[2:23:55] .
[2:23:59] You have the floor terry and
[2:23:59] two minutes.
[2:24:00] Hi.
[2:24:02] >> thank you.
[2:24:04] Um first of all I did just
[2:24:04] reset my hair.
[2:24:05] Uh, let.
[2:24:06] >> me.
[2:24:06] Introduce myself.
[2:24:07] I'm terry williams.
[2:24:08] I'm PRESIDENT.
[2:24:10] And owner of one united bank.
[2:24:10] Um.
[2:24:12] >> headquartered here in
[2:24:13] massachusetts.
[2:24:14] But we also have offices.
[2:24:17] In miami and in los angeles.
[2:24:18] Uh, I.
[2:24:21] Just heard about this, uh,
[2:24:24] hearing and so I didn't prepare
[2:24:24] remarks.
[2:24:26] However, I do want to share our
[2:24:28] experience with security.
[2:24:31] Um, we hire security for our
[2:24:31] branches.
[2:24:36] Um, it is a huge expense and
[2:24:38] what we try to do in each
[2:24:39] of the cities we're in is to
[2:24:42] hire locally and to hire small
[2:24:45] firms, um, because they tend to
[2:24:45] be cost effective.
[2:24:49] In addition to that, we also
[2:24:53] have a very limited, uh,
[2:24:54] responsibility that we give to
[2:24:55] those security officers.
[2:24:58] Um, very similar to what uh the
[2:24:59] gentleman just uh, stated that
[2:25:02] was here previously is that we
[2:25:04] don't want them to get involved
[2:25:07] in public safety, um,
[2:25:08] circumstances because it does
[2:25:11] put our employees at risk, our
[2:25:13] customers at risk if anything
[2:25:14] does happen, the first charge
[2:25:16] is really to call the police.
[2:25:19] Um, so I believe that this
[2:25:21] ordinance should not be enacted
[2:25:23] ,um, because it does take away
[2:25:24] the flexibility.
[2:25:28] For employers like me, uh, to
[2:25:31] hire security firms to do a
[2:25:33] narrow range of responsibility
[2:25:34] and to be cost effective.
[2:25:38] So I would ask that you would
[2:25:39] reconsider this ordinance.
[2:25:40] Thank you.
[2:25:40] Thank you.
[2:25:43] >> um, I believe that's all we
[2:25:44] have for in-person testimony.
[2:25:46] Unless there's anyone else who
[2:25:47] is here to offer in-person
[2:25:48] testimony.
[2:25:50] Megan, do we have.
[2:25:51] Anyone signed up virtually.
[2:25:52] >> we have oh, yes.
[2:25:53] We have one additional person
[2:25:56] to, uh, offer testimony online
[2:25:56] via zoom.
[2:26:01] Um, rob cook uh, you have the
[2:26:02] floor and you have two minutes
[2:26:05] for public testimony starting.
[2:26:07] With moment by moment.
[2:26:07] Uh.
[2:26:12] Okay.
[2:26:15] >> okay.
[2:26:16] Starting now.
[2:26:20] Thank you, MADAM Vice chair.
[2:26:22] Uh, counselor santana and, uh,
[2:26:24] the committee um, there were
[2:26:26] just a few concerns, uh, raised
[2:26:27] today that I'd like to.
[2:26:29] Oh, can you not hear me?
[2:26:30] We can hear you.
[2:26:31] We can you okay.
[2:26:32] Yeah, we can hear you.
[2:26:33] Um, yeah.
[2:26:34] So there were just a few
[2:26:35] concerns, uh, raised today.
[2:26:37] I'm, uh I'm the, uh, policy
[2:26:40] fellow at 32 pj uh, and a few
[2:26:41] concerns I just wanted to
[2:26:44] briefly address um, there there
[2:26:46] were some concerns raised about
[2:26:47] whether this bill would
[2:26:48] conflict with state law.
[2:26:51] Um, and, uh, we don't think
[2:26:52] there's a cause for concern
[2:26:52] there.
[2:26:54] Um, well, uh, municipal law
[2:26:56] that's inconsistent with state
[2:26:58] law can be preempted in some
[2:26:58] cases.
[2:27:01] Um and state law here does
[2:27:02] include a registration scheme
[2:27:03] for security companies.
[2:27:06] Um, there's no state level
[2:27:07] unarmed guard training
[2:27:08] requirements.
[2:27:10] Uh, so there's no conflict
[2:27:13] between state law and uh, this
[2:27:14] municipal proposal.
[2:27:17] Um, I think another point to be
[2:27:20] made about part timers, uh and
[2:27:22] the uh timeline of getting the
[2:27:24] training if you're a busy part
[2:27:25] timer, uh, existing employees
[2:27:28] have uh, half a year to finish
[2:27:28] the training.
[2:27:30] Uh, and new employees have to
[2:27:32] have three months and, uh, we
[2:27:34] think that part timers, uh,
[2:27:37] deserve uh, you know, the the
[2:27:38] support and the preparation
[2:27:40] that full timers would get as
[2:27:40] well.
[2:27:42] Um, and and I guess as far as
[2:27:45] uh, questions about the role
[2:27:46] of officers officer security
[2:27:48] officers acting as the eyes and
[2:27:50] ears.
[2:27:51] Um, you know, they do wear
[2:27:52] uniforms and people look to
[2:27:54] them in emergencies so they're
[2:27:56] involved in public safety.
[2:27:59] Uh uh, regardless, um.
[2:28:02] And uh several uh of the guards
[2:28:04] who testified have mentioned uh
[2:28:06] the police don't always arrive
[2:28:06] right away.
[2:28:09] Um, and and training like cpr
[2:28:11] and de-escalation can can save
[2:28:12] lives.
[2:28:15] Uh, so because security
[2:28:16] officers do find themselves in
[2:28:18] harm's way regardless of the
[2:28:20] intent of the companies in
[2:28:22] terms of their uh, the
[2:28:23] limitations on when they should
[2:28:25] intervene, uh, we do think
[2:28:27] that, uh, it's it's a serious
[2:28:29] risk not to provide them basic
[2:28:29] training.
[2:28:31] Um, and uh.
[2:28:32] >> I.
[2:28:32] Think that's.
[2:28:34] >> all uh, all I wanted to say.
[2:28:34] So thank.
[2:28:37] >> you, thank you, thank you
[2:28:38] and thank you to everyone who
[2:28:40] is offered public testimony.
[2:28:45] Um, I want to thank the panel
[2:28:46] and I want to thank the
[2:28:47] administration panel advocate
[2:28:48] panel I want to thank those who
[2:28:50] testified, including those from
[2:28:50] industry.
[2:28:53] And I will now turn it over to
[2:28:56] my uh, co-sponsor to the lead
[2:28:58] sponsor council, santana, for
[2:28:59] any closing remarks that you
[2:29:00] would like to make.
[2:29:00] Right.
[2:29:02] >> thank you because I want to
[2:29:03] thank you, MADAM Chair, for for
[2:29:06] chairing us um, today I do want
[2:29:07] to thank the administration and
[2:29:09] our advocate panel, um, for
[2:29:11] being, um, willing to come and
[2:29:13] testify and answer our
[2:29:13] questions.
[2:29:16] Um, and I do want to uh I do
[2:29:17] want to thank the public and
[2:29:18] people who provided public
[2:29:20] testimony, um, who are here
[2:29:20] today.
[2:29:21] I've also had many
[2:29:22] conversations over the last
[2:29:23] several days including with
[2:29:25] some um, you know, I think
[2:29:26] people who are supporting and
[2:29:27] have questions or.
[2:29:29] Concerns or opposing um, this
[2:29:30] ordinance and I want to make
[2:29:32] sure that um, as the lead
[2:29:34] sponsor that I'm taking those
[2:29:36] um, conversations um,
[2:29:36] seriously.
[2:29:38] So I'll tell you today
[2:29:39] obviously you're here in this
[2:29:39] chamber.
[2:29:41] Uh, but my office and myself
[2:29:42] are wanting to always meet, um
[2:29:44] ,um, with a meeting, um, to
[2:29:46] make sure that, um, we're
[2:29:47] meeting the needs um and
[2:29:49] hearing um, again, uh, all
[2:29:51] sides here, uh, I want to make
[2:29:52] sure that this, um, is you
[2:29:53] know, I think we've heard from
[2:29:54] multiple councilors.
[2:29:56] Um, we want to make sure that
[2:29:57] we get this right and we want
[2:29:59] to make sure that, um, even,
[2:30:01] um, uh, we want to make sure
[2:30:02] that we get this right.
[2:30:03] We want to make sure that, um,
[2:30:04] the intent of this one entity
[2:30:07] again is to, um, really protect
[2:30:09] our workers, um, frontline
[2:30:09] workers.
[2:30:10] Um, but we want to make sure
[2:30:12] that all parties and people who
[2:30:14] are affected by this, um, uh,
[2:30:15] are a part of the table and
[2:30:16] part of the conversation.
[2:30:18] So um, I encourage um, those
[2:30:20] who do want to meet with me in
[2:30:22] my office um, to reach out.
[2:30:24] Um, I will also be reaching out
[2:30:25] proactively also if you
[2:30:27] weren't, um, invited as a panel
[2:30:28] here, I hope that you don't
[2:30:31] take it as a as uh um sign
[2:30:32] of disrespect or any of that
[2:30:32] stuff.
[2:30:34] Um, I want to meet with you.
[2:30:36] Um, um, we want to make sure
[2:30:37] that we get this right.
[2:30:39] I do want thank um, 32 bj for
[2:30:40] your work.
[2:30:42] um, and in bringing this to
[2:30:44] this point as well and and I
[2:30:45] want to thank particularly the
[2:30:47] the workers who shared their
[2:30:48] stories um I you know, I
[2:30:50] acknowledge that it takes a lot
[2:30:52] of courage to be able to come
[2:30:54] and share your experience um,
[2:30:55] and not always positive
[2:30:56] experiences.
[2:30:58] Especially when your your you
[2:30:59] have an employer as well right?
[2:31:00] So I do want to thank them for
[2:31:02] their um for their testimony.
[2:31:04] Um thank you MADAM Chair.
[2:31:05] Um that's.
[2:31:06] A member of my.
[2:31:08] Thank you.
[2:31:09] And thank you again, counselor
[2:31:10] santana for your leadership and
[2:31:11] for offering this thank you to
[2:31:14] the for, uh, your work.
[2:31:15] I want to just echo what you
[2:31:17] stated that I think this is the
[2:31:19] beginning of important
[2:31:20] legislation.
[2:31:21] Um, it was really important for
[2:31:22] me to hear from our security
[2:31:24] guards who every day sometimes
[2:31:25] people walk by and not really
[2:31:27] notice the labor that they're
[2:31:28] doing and the importance
[2:31:29] of making sure that they have
[2:31:30] the requisite training right,
[2:31:31] not just for their benefit.
[2:31:32] Right.
[2:31:33] Making sure that they have the
[2:31:34] requisite training is also for
[2:31:35] everyone else's benefit.
[2:31:37] Um, and we know that there's
[2:31:39] there's wild variation in the
[2:31:40] industry in terms of what
[2:31:41] training is and isn't offered
[2:31:43] and I think there's a lot to
[2:31:45] learn uh, from what is actually
[2:31:46] happening in those in the
[2:31:46] industry.
[2:31:47] So again this is the beginning
[2:31:48] of a conversation.
[2:31:50] This is an ordinance that was
[2:31:52] offered um, and from ordinances
[2:31:54] we have additional hearings, we
[2:31:55] have additional working
[2:31:56] sessions and we have additional
[2:31:58] work uh, just to make that very
[2:32:00] clear but I really, um, uh,
[2:32:01] appreciate everyone for coming
[2:32:03] forward for offering testimony
[2:32:04] and for making sure that we do
[2:32:06] work, uh, that we do right by
[2:32:07] our workers and by our city.
[2:32:10] Um, with that this hearing on
[2:32:14] docket number one of 541 is
[2:32:14] adjourned.