[2:40] and.
[4:13] >>
[4:13] so.
[7:39] Buying this.
[7:41] Good morning everyone.
[7:43] For the record my name is liz
[7:44] breadon, city
[7:45] council PRESIDENT, district
[7:46] nine city councilor and chair
[7:47] of the boston city
[7:49] council committee on rules,
[7:50] ethics and administration.
[7:54] Today is AUGUST 13th 2026 and
[7:57] the exact time is 10:08 A.M..
[8:00] This hearing is being recorded.
[8:03] It is also being live
[8:03] streamed@boston.Gov.
[8:05] Uh backslash.
[8:08] City council dash tv and
[8:10] broadcast on xfinity channel
[8:13] eight rcn uh channel 82.
[8:18] Fios channel 964.
[8:20] Written comments MAY be sent to
[8:23] the committee email uh
[8:25] scarborough uh boston.Gov.
[8:27] And were made a part of the
[8:29] record and available to all
[8:29] councilors.
[8:31] Public testimony will be taken
[8:32] at the end of the hearing.
[8:34] Individuals would be called on
[8:36] in the order in which they
[8:37] signed up and will have two
[8:38] minutes to testify.
[8:40] If you're interested in
[8:42] testifying in person, please
[8:44] add your name to the sign up
[8:45] sheet near the entrance of the
[8:46] chamber and if you're looking
[8:48] to testify virtually, please
[8:51] email our central staff liaison
[8:52] megan at megan.
[9:02] Meg and megan dot c o r u g
[9:06] doma rta and@boston.Gov for the
[9:08] link and your name will be
[9:09] added to the list.
[9:11] Today's hearing is on docket
[9:13] number 0475.
[9:16] Order for a hearing to review
[9:18] the application and intent
[9:19] of rule 15 this matter.
[9:21] It was co-sponsored by
[9:23] councilors aaron flynn and
[9:25] councilmember um erin murphy
[9:27] and councilor flynn and was
[9:30] referred to the committee on
[9:31] MARCH 4th 2026.
[9:34] Uh, today I am joined by my
[9:35] colleagues uh, in order
[9:37] of arrival councilor flynn.
[9:40] Um, councilor murphy and we
[9:42] have a letter of absence, uh,
[9:43] from councilor pepen.
[9:49] Just, uh I'd like to start with
[9:51] some opening remarks.
[9:52] I want to thank, uh, michelle
[9:56] goldberg and alex of the city
[9:58] clerk for being here and and to
[9:59] and bring resources to this
[10:02] process being we began this
[10:05] term with a collaborative rules
[10:07] process, uh, multiple working
[10:08] sessions.
[10:09] And this hearing is a great
[10:10] opportunity to discuss the
[10:12] rules and ensure they're
[10:13] meeting the needs of the
[10:14] council and current practice.
[10:16] This is a chance for us to
[10:16] step.
[10:17] Back.
[10:18] >> look at how the rule is
[10:20] functioning and ask what
[10:21] improvements, if any might help
[10:23] us operate more smoothly.
[10:26] Every councilor has been around
[10:30] rule 15 at some point there's a
[10:30] share.
[10:32] There's a shared desire to make
[10:34] sure our rules are leading to.
[10:35] Excuse me.
[10:40] A councilor has been uh uh
[10:42] every councilor has been rule
[10:43] 15 at some point and there's a
[10:45] shared desire to make sure our
[10:46] rules are leading to a smooth
[10:48] as smooth a council process.
[10:49] >> as possible.
[10:52] Uh, we've also been joined by
[10:53] councilor fitzgerald.
[10:58] Um, we'll start off um I'd like
[11:00] to also introduce today's
[11:00] panelists.
[11:03] Uh, alex karanka's who's our
[11:05] city truck uh, of the city
[11:07] clerk of the city of boston and
[11:09] michelle goldberg, uh, who's
[11:10] the central staff director for
[11:12] the city of boston.
[11:17] Um, we'll open up with, um, two
[11:18] minutes opening statements for
[11:21] the for uh, colleagues, um,
[11:23] councilor my constituents and
[11:24] countryman murphy, since you're
[11:25] the lead sponsor.
[11:27] Uh, if you'd like to start.
[11:28] Thank you.
[11:29] Um.
[11:30] Thank you.
[11:33] It's different to see you,
[11:34] michelle and clark.
[11:35] Um, across.
[11:37] But thank you for being here.
[11:39] Like I said, I know since it's
[11:40] my fifth year on the council we
[11:42] have had and I think it's a
[11:44] productive thing to do.
[11:46] Uh, meet during a term in the
[11:48] crowley room talking through
[11:49] the rules.
[11:50] I know when council of flynn
[11:51] was the PRESIDENT A couple
[11:53] times we just went through all
[11:55] the rules to kind of make sure
[11:58] we were in an understanding
[11:59] of we're using them to the true
[12:01] intent of making sure everyone
[12:02] on the council feels as though
[12:04] the rules they're not supposed
[12:05] to be used against us, they're
[12:06] supposed to support us and help
[12:08] the work that we push forward.
[12:13] I was telling um you clark
[12:14] trent is that when I looked
[12:16] back we filed this over five
[12:17] months ago.
[12:19] So sometimes the you know, the
[12:21] intent then I had to remind
[12:23] myself why I felt the need to
[12:24] put it to a hearing.
[12:28] Um, and there have been times
[12:31] where certain filings have been
[12:33] rule 15 and I do just want to
[12:35] take a couple seconds of my
[12:37] time to make sure those
[12:39] listening in it's clear what
[12:40] rule 15 means and.
[12:41] But um.
[12:43] >> there have been times where
[12:45] I felt even after speaking to
[12:46] the clerk and speaking to you,
[12:49] michelle, that it's still maybe
[12:50] had been pulled or didn't seem
[12:51] as though it was being
[12:52] consistently applied.
[12:53] Across the board.
[12:56] So rule 15 governs the filing
[12:58] of matters that are duplicative
[13:00] or of substantial similar
[13:02] matters already in committee or
[13:04] previously acted upon during
[13:05] that municipal year.
[13:07] It provides that it shall not
[13:09] preclude filings whose content
[13:11] is on a different sub topic or
[13:13] for which a hearing or debate
[13:14] would not result in the same
[13:17] hearing or the same debate as a
[13:18] previous filing.
[13:20] So of course there's open to
[13:21] interpretation.
[13:23] Um the clerk is charged with
[13:24] placing on the agenda only the
[13:26] first file matter when filings
[13:27] are determined.
[13:29] To be duplicative.
[13:31] >> or substantially similar.
[13:32] And in the case that brought
[13:35] me to do this, it was a women's
[13:37] history month resolution and I
[13:40] did get a call at my house, um,
[13:42] on a friday morning, um, from
[13:44] the clerk to say, you know,
[13:46] these are similar and or and
[13:48] then we talked through and
[13:49] changes were made in time.
[13:51] And even though those changes
[13:52] were made it was still rule 15.
[13:55] And you know, other things kind
[13:56] of snowballed after that.
[13:59] But um I think it's important
[14:01] that consistency and flaherty
[14:03] in this conversation I hope
[14:04] will get us to a place where
[14:05] people feel as though.
[14:08] You know, things are being done
[14:10] fairly 100% agree that if
[14:12] something is duplicative rules
[14:14] apply to everyone you can't
[14:14] file it.
[14:17] I also think there's a small
[14:19] right it's a finite it's not an
[14:21] infinite number of filings that
[14:22] we can work on on the
[14:23] council and many times they are
[14:25] very similar in nature,
[14:27] especially when we all care
[14:28] about many of the similar
[14:29] quality of life issues.
[14:31] So maybe it's a different
[14:33] intent or a different outcome
[14:35] we're hoping for and they MAY
[14:37] seem similar, but I do think we
[14:39] should make sure we're using
[14:39] the.
[14:41] Rules to support each other and
[14:42] support the work that
[14:44] ultimately we're always trying
[14:44] to uplift.
[14:45] >> the residents.
[14:46] Not personally ourselves.
[14:48] So looking forward to this
[14:49] conversation and thank you for.
[14:51] Both of you for being here for
[14:51] it.
[14:51] Thank you.
[14:53] Councilor flynn.
[14:56] And thank you, MADAM Chair and
[14:56] .
[14:59] Thank you for your leadership
[14:59] on this issue.
[15:00] MADAM Chair.
[15:03] And I want to say thank you to
[15:05] our city clerk and to the staff
[15:08] director for the important
[15:09] professional work they do every
[15:11] day on behalf of the city
[15:13] council but on behalf of the
[15:15] residents of the city as well.
[15:17] i want to say thank you to
[15:18] councilor murphy for bringing
[15:20] this forward, including me as
[15:23] an original co-sponsor that
[15:24] councilor murphy highlighted
[15:27] the importance of rule 15 one
[15:29] aspect of rule 15.
[15:31] I just want to stress is.
[15:36] Having everybody be consistent
[15:36] .
[15:39] Everybody knows the rules.
[15:40] Everybody knows what to expect
[15:41] .
[15:44] Ensuring that everybody is
[15:44] heard.
[15:46] Everybody has respect even when
[15:47] we disagree.
[15:50] We can give someone an
[15:52] explanation of why fifth rule
[15:56] 15 might be might preclude that
[15:58] matter from moving forward and
[16:01] with an explanation that it's
[16:03] duplicative or very similar.
[16:07] I think that answer with an
[16:09] explanation goes a long way.
[16:11] So I'm just want to encourage
[16:14] my colleagues, um, to continue
[16:16] to work with the chair, work
[16:18] with the city clerk with the
[16:19] with the staff director as
[16:20] well.
[16:23] And this is an important city
[16:24] council hearing one of the most
[16:25] important of of of the year
[16:29] because it gives everybody an
[16:30] important opportunity to ask
[16:32] questions directly to the
[16:34] clerk, directly to the staff
[16:35] director and they know these
[16:38] rules um, extremely well and
[16:40] this is our opportunity to
[16:43] engage with them and want to
[16:45] encourage my colleagues to ask
[16:46] pertinent questions.
[16:50] And this is the time to do it.
[16:53] So we want to welcome all of my
[16:54] colleagues that are here.
[16:55] I know city
[16:56] councilor fitzgerald is here as
[16:56] well.
[16:58] um thank you, MADAM Chair.
[16:59] Thank you.
[17:01] Um councilor fitzgerald.
[17:04] Thank you, MADAM PRESIDENT.
[17:06] Um, as always at the beginning
[17:08] of this year when I, uh.
[17:09] First blocked.
[17:11] Uh, the first meeting to make
[17:12] sure we understood the rules
[17:13] of starting off the city
[17:13] council here.
[17:15] I always appreciate
[17:16] understanding the rules more
[17:17] and making sure we're all on
[17:17] the same page.
[17:19] Uh, and so I'm here to learn
[17:20] and educate myself more and
[17:22] look to you guys as always and
[17:23] thank you all for the work you
[17:24] do to educate us every day I
[17:25] appreciate it.
[17:26] Uh that's all thank you ma'am.
[17:26] Thank you.
[17:30] >> um.
[17:38] So, um I've introduced our
[17:39] today's panelists.
[17:42] Um, I'd just like to give you
[17:44] councilor um, MR. Clerk and.
[17:45] And.
[17:48] >> um, michelle, uh, director
[17:50] of um central staff if you have
[17:52] any, uh, remarks to opening
[17:55] remarks to make at this point.
[17:55] >> it's okay.
[18:03] Go ahead.
[18:05] Yeah, I think I'm.
[18:06] I think you're good.
[18:10] Um, well, um, happy to be here
[18:11] today for this discussion.
[18:13] Um, really fun to sit on this
[18:14] side.
[18:18] Um, I think, um I didn't really
[18:19] prepare it but, you know, big
[18:20] opening statement or anything
[18:21] like that.
[18:23] Um, but I think all of you
[18:25] covered it in terms of, you
[18:26] know, the city council rules
[18:28] are meant to support the work
[18:28] of the body.
[18:32] um, and I mean, that's the
[18:32] whole point.
[18:35] So, um, important to review
[18:37] them, make sure that they are
[18:38] doing what the body wants them
[18:38] to be doing.
[18:41] Um, and equally important to
[18:43] make sure that councilors staff
[18:45] and the clerk's office are all
[18:45] on the same page.
[18:48] So, um, thank you to the chair.
[18:49] Thank you to the sponsors.
[18:51] Um, thank you for to everyone
[18:53] here for um the opportunity to
[18:56] to talk about rule 15 which is
[18:56] one of our more.
[18:58] Um, you know.
[18:59] I don't wanna say confusing but
[19:00] you know, um.
[19:03] Uh.
[19:04] >> rules that is is sometimes
[19:05] difficult to interpret.
[19:07] So thank you.
[19:08] MISTER Chair.
[19:10] Thank you, council for the
[19:12] invitation to be here today.
[19:12] Uh.
[19:13] Likewise myself.
[19:15] It's it's a great opportunity
[19:16] to review the rules and.
[19:17] Rule 15.
[19:19] For me as the clerk and our
[19:22] staff upstairs we take, uh, um.
[19:25] Great time upstairs to review
[19:26] rule 15.
[19:28] Items when we get them.
[19:28] So.
[19:31] >> uh, the process can be.
[19:33] Difficult and, uh, time
[19:33] consuming.
[19:35] But you know, we do get things
[19:38] done and, uh, determined what
[19:38] that.
[19:41] Choice will be and contact the
[19:43] council as affected and, uh, I
[19:44] look forward to the
[19:45] conversation.
[19:46] Thank you, mr clerk.
[19:48] We've been joined by
[19:49] councilor durkan and
[19:50] councilor weber.
[19:51] Um, I followed my colleagues
[19:52] two minutes of opening
[19:53] comments.
[19:54] Would you, councilor durkan,
[19:55] would you?
[19:57] Thank you so much,
[19:57] council PRESIDENT.
[19:58] Um, I think it's always
[19:59] important to review the rules.
[20:01] They're incredibly important.
[20:03] It's you know, and I also
[20:05] believe in, um, supporting the
[20:06] clerk, um, when he makes
[20:08] certain determinations.
[20:09] Um, there was.
[20:11] >> an instance with rule 15
[20:11] where.
[20:12] I think I had.
[20:15] Three, uh, hearing orders on
[20:17] speed humps at one time in my
[20:17] committee.
[20:19] So I think this role has been
[20:21] incredibly important to me.
[20:23] Um, I you know, back to the
[20:24] women's history month filing.
[20:26] I did think it was duplicative
[20:27] and I did cite rule 15.
[20:30] Um, upon further review I do
[20:34] think rule 15 and um is really
[20:36] intended to be used by the
[20:37] clerk and not by city
[20:38] councilors.
[20:40] But um with that being said, I
[20:41] believe that city councilors
[20:44] have um you know, carte blanche
[20:47] to not pass something on the
[20:48] first day that it's introduced
[20:50] if it is at all controversial
[20:53] um and or if it at all needs
[20:53] more time.
[20:56] Um, so I definitely stand
[20:59] behind my um, initial uh I did
[21:01] think it was pretty similar.
[21:05] Um, and um but I I don't want
[21:06] to be considered someone who
[21:08] just, you know, doing things on
[21:11] the basis of um, personalities
[21:11] or anything.
[21:13] So I appreciate, um, this
[21:16] hearing and I appreciate, um,
[21:17] the chance to talk about it.
[21:21] Um, and I'll just say that, um
[21:24] ,I think that when we get a
[21:25] call from the clerk saying that
[21:26] our filing is too similar.
[21:28] Um, there have been times where
[21:30] I've just withdrawn my filing
[21:31] and said, okay, great.
[21:32] I'll support.
[21:33] >> the work of my colleague
[21:34] that's doing that work.
[21:37] Um, and I you know, I think we
[21:39] actually have to talk to each
[21:40] other to have those
[21:41] conversations and I think as a
[21:44] body uh, we need to have more
[21:46] communication and more
[21:48] collegiality and, um and we do
[21:50] need to work together more.
[21:53] And so, um, I think in the case
[21:54] where someone has filed
[21:56] something super similar to you,
[21:57] it might behoove us to pick up
[21:59] the phone and see if you can be
[22:00] a second or a third rather than
[22:02] filing something very similar.
[22:03] Thank you.
[22:03] Thank you.
[22:05] >> councilor durkan.
[22:08] Um, chair recognizes councilor.
[22:09] Uh, whether.
[22:10] >> you just got two minutes.
[22:11] Uh, thank you very much.
[22:13] And I think, uh, if you.
[22:13] >> look at.
[22:14] Like the.
[22:15] >> history of the language
[22:17] of rule 15 and why it's there
[22:17] there's.
[22:18] >> good.
[22:19] Policy reasons why.
[22:21] You would have something like
[22:23] that to prevent duplicative
[22:25] filings and to be able to keep
[22:27] the body, uh, moving forward
[22:29] and efficient, uh, and to
[22:31] prevent debate over the same
[22:32] thing over and over again.
[22:34] Uh, and I also appreciate that
[22:35] we have, uh, you know, sort
[22:37] of a nonpartisan clerk who's an
[22:40] umpire calling and strikes and
[22:42] so rule 15 or something I know
[22:44] in our office we talk about a
[22:44] lot.
[22:45] It's one of you know, we're
[22:46] talking about an idea about
[22:47] whether to file something if it
[22:49] would be a rule 15 to we don't
[22:50] file it.
[22:52] Um, and uh, look forward to the
[22:54] conversation to figure out if
[22:56] there's any ways we can improve
[22:58] the function of the rule or how
[22:59] to work with the clerk or how
[23:00] to better work with each other
[23:01] as a body.
[23:02] Uh, I'm all for it.
[23:02] Thank you.
[23:03] Thank you.
[23:06] Um.
[23:08] So we'll move on to.
[23:09] Uh, questions.
[23:11] Um.
[23:15] Councilor murphy, would you
[23:16] like to start and give you and
[23:18] we'll give you seven minutes
[23:18] for.
[23:19] Uh, give our.
[23:20] Colleague seven.
[23:21] >> minutes to see if I can set
[23:22] up the thank you, MADAM Chair.
[23:23] Oh.
[23:24] >> good morning.
[23:25] I beg your pardon?
[23:26] Culpeper.
[23:27] I'd like to recognize the
[23:27] council.
[23:28] Culpeper has joined us.
[23:30] Would you like to take a two
[23:31] minute, uh, opening statement
[23:32] if you'd.
[23:33] Like to use the time.
[23:34] Thank you.
[23:35] >> thank you.
[23:37] Thank you.
[23:38] >> chair I.
[23:40] >> think rule 15 makes sense in
[23:43] principle and, uh, I don't
[23:44] think we need to keep fouling
[23:46] debating the exact same thing
[23:47] over and over again.
[23:49] But in practice I think there
[23:51] were some times when the rule
[23:53] can be confusing, particularly
[23:56] when dealing with issues uh are
[23:58] changing and things have
[24:00] changed outside in real time.
[24:02] I think something and so
[24:05] there's one issue we saw that
[24:05] with that uh.
[24:11] So the issue that.
[24:15] Was voted down by the
[24:16] council but when things changed
[24:19] with the homicide we brought it
[24:22] back and it was approved and so
[24:23] I don't think we should
[24:25] automatically treat a new
[24:27] conversation as the same
[24:28] conversation because it falls
[24:30] on in the same general subject
[24:30] .
[24:34] But I do think we can discuss
[24:36] it and and here's what's really
[24:38] been good for me and exciting
[24:40] for me is the way it's been
[24:44] handled, uh, without any real
[24:47] regimented protocol for how
[24:49] it's been handled in writing.
[24:52] I think the clerk or his office
[24:53] has come to us.
[24:54] We've discussed it.
[24:57] For me it was good discussion
[25:01] but I think in other times it
[25:02] can get out of hand.
[25:04] So I just think we need to talk
[25:06] through this see what makes
[25:06] sense.
[25:10] Um, but I do think there's some
[25:13] things we can clarify uh, maybe
[25:15] even be more flexible making
[25:17] sure rule 15 prevents
[25:18] duplication without preventing
[25:21] this body from responding when
[25:23] an issue is really changing.
[25:25] So yeah, I think the clerk's
[25:26] office has.
[25:29] For me we've got a great
[25:30] relationship.
[25:31] i love when they come to
[25:33] me with something and ask give
[25:34] me their opinion because you
[25:35] know I'm gonna have my opinion
[25:37] and my interpretation.
[25:38] So it's been it's been good.
[25:40] I just think we need to nail
[25:43] down some protocol on how we
[25:45] anticipate the discussion is
[25:46] going to take place.
[25:49] Otherwise I hope it was good to
[25:49] go.
[25:51] Thank you, councilor culpeper.
[25:54] Um, constable murphy, um.
[25:55] Let me see if I can send this
[25:55] to.
[26:01] That so I can start seven
[26:01] minutes.
[26:03] Seven minutes.
[26:04] >> thank you.
[26:08] >> um, and for me, like I said
[26:10] in my opening statement, the
[26:11] filing when I looked back to
[26:14] the timing was I forget it now
[26:15] I've moved on but it was based
[26:18] to that particular filing but
[26:19] has been an ongoing issue.
[26:22] I know we've shall we have many
[26:24] conversations alex I go up to
[26:26] the sixth floor often and thank
[26:28] you to both of you for.
[26:28] You know.
[26:32] ,talking through and you know,
[26:34] trying to come to some
[26:35] understanding on issues related
[26:37] to the rules.
[26:38] And it is.
[26:39] True when you read the.
[26:40] Rule there is a lot of.
[26:42] Words in there that sometimes
[26:45] MAY get lost on the floor when
[26:47] it's like you know, when it's
[26:48] the council meeting and
[26:49] something's blocked on the
[26:50] floor.
[26:51] It's not the same as a
[26:52] conversation beforehand.
[26:57] But in this case I had talked
[26:59] to the clerk's office and I had
[27:03] made substantial changes and
[27:07] when it was blocked on the
[27:09] floor it was after because it
[27:11] even says right in the rule
[27:13] topics for which context has a
[27:15] content has evolved since the
[27:18] previous filing or things have
[27:19] changed or the wording has
[27:21] changed to make it clearer.
[27:23] And in that particular case I
[27:24] already felt as though the
[27:26] intent and my conversation with
[27:27] you we both agreed that the
[27:29] outcome of those two filings
[27:30] were very different.
[27:30] One was.
[27:31] Focusing on.
[27:33] Federal state.
[27:34] Overall rights for women, which
[27:36] is an important hearing.
[27:37] I think we could have voted and
[27:38] supported both easily.
[27:41] Mine was more based on you know
[27:42] as the chair a strong women
[27:44] families and communities
[27:45] supporting and highlighting the
[27:47] work of women here in the city
[27:49] to different outcomes also and
[27:51] tying it to a celebration that
[27:53] most of our colleagues joined
[27:55] in and uplifting women across
[27:56] the city and thanking them for
[27:58] their contributions.
[28:00] But I guess a procedural
[28:02] question would be and I'll tie
[28:03] it to that day at that hearing.
[28:07] If I've already spoken to the
[28:09] clerk's office and changes have
[28:10] been made and then.
[28:13] A block which everyone has the
[28:14] right to do and then when what
[28:16] is the correct procedure
[28:18] because it's been said a couple
[28:20] of times you know you are kind
[28:21] of like the umpire the final
[28:22] say is on.
[28:23] The clerk.
[28:25] But when the chair decides to
[28:27] block it after conversations
[28:29] and I came into a meeting
[28:31] feeling as though the clerk's
[28:32] office agreed it shouldn't be
[28:34] blocked, what procedures is it?
[28:36] Call a recess to make sure that
[28:37] .
[28:37] >> you.
[28:39] Know it gets communicated.
[28:40] >> do you just let it go and
[28:40] try.
[28:41] >> to file again?
[28:42] >> is that what seems.
[28:43] To happen when you're in.
[28:46] The midst of like the meeting
[28:47] and the two minute clerk is
[28:49] going people want to get to the
[28:50] next agenda item, but you're
[28:51] feeling as though.
[28:53] Your filing is not getting the
[28:54] time it needs.
[28:56] But work had been done
[28:57] beforehand to make sure there
[28:58] shouldn't be any.
[29:01] Confusion and there MAY be a
[29:03] miscommunication between the
[29:04] council PRESIDENT And the clerk
[29:05] or your.
[29:07] Communications with your
[29:07] office.
[29:09] So how can you speak to that to
[29:10] make sure going forward?
[29:12] Anyone who feels like at the
[29:14] moment at the hearing, how do
[29:16] you advocate for yourself and.
[29:18] Push to make sure that it's not
[29:18] .
[29:19] Taken off the agenda or
[29:20] blocked?
[29:22] Yeah, I.
[29:23] >> mean I think just um.
[29:26] So that's a really good example
[29:27] of kind of like the interplay
[29:28] of a couple different rules.
[29:32] Um, and for me I don't remember
[29:33] every detail from the from the
[29:36] situation but um, you know,
[29:38] rule 15 is something that takes
[29:40] place before the agenda ever um
[29:42] is published.
[29:44] So rule 15 is really something
[29:46] that lays with the clerk um,
[29:48] and the clerk's office in terms
[29:50] of what makes it onto the
[29:53] agenda um, under those kind of.
[29:53] You know.
[29:54] Um.
[29:57] >> considerations to try to
[29:58] make things not duplicative and
[29:59] things like that.
[30:01] Um, once something is on the
[30:03] agenda and comes before the
[30:06] body um, there's kind of a
[30:08] second catchall for duplicative
[30:10] matters which would be under
[30:10] rule five.
[30:12] So that would be something
[30:13] where then the
[30:14] council PRESIDENT Has the
[30:15] discretion to rule something
[30:18] out of order due to it being
[30:19] substantially similar,
[30:21] duplicative or already taken up
[30:23] in a given municipal year.
[30:27] Um, that is a separate um.
[30:29] Inquiry just from an objection
[30:29] to taking.
[30:30] >> a vote.
[30:32] So um, you know, I think
[30:33] there's a distinct you know,
[30:34] there are different distinguish
[30:36] distinguish between like
[30:38] something being on the agenda
[30:39] coming to the floor and then
[30:39] passing.
[30:41] Before the body.
[30:43] Um, so when something is
[30:45] objected to for a vote on the
[30:48] day it's introduced, um, it
[30:49] doesn't have to be because of.
[30:50] >> a rule.
[30:51] It would just be like the
[30:52] objection is just the
[30:52] objection.
[30:53] Um.
[30:55] >> rule five would be.
[30:58] To rule something out of order
[30:59] because it's duplicative on the
[31:00] day of a meeting.
[31:02] And rule 15 would be.
[31:03] To exactly.
[31:04] Yeah.
[31:06] >> so is there conversation at
[31:07] the pre meeting.
[31:09] So there is an understanding
[31:11] when there's a pre meeting on
[31:14] wednesday with the
[31:15] council PRESIDENT And the
[31:17] clerk's office that everything
[31:18] that has made it through has
[31:19] already been checked.
[31:20] Yes.
[31:24] >> and if the PRESIDENT Has no
[31:27] personal questions and feels as
[31:28] though that's right of course
[31:30] they have an opinion maybe it
[31:30] would come.
[31:31] >> up would it come up.
[31:32] >> on wednesday before the.
[31:35] Council meeting start if they
[31:37] had any questions could it.
[31:38] I guess.
[31:40] >> well you know most of the
[31:41] dockets of course they get
[31:43] filed up in the office before
[31:45] ten uh so we have to review
[31:47] each docket and of course if I
[31:49] find a duplicate of docket all
[31:51] the my staff does then we have
[31:51] to review it.
[31:52] Uh.
[31:54] See.
[31:56] >> we have the 10:00 deadline
[31:57] and so.
[31:58] >> I mean the wednesday meeting
[32:00] that happens kind of to check
[32:01] in before the.
[32:03] Council starts like.
[32:05] So all the dockets have been
[32:06] arranged and you know, on the
[32:06] agenda.
[32:07] So we're.
[32:09] Evergreen review all the items
[32:11] that the pre meeting and we go
[32:12] over what committee they should
[32:14] be assigned to and review them.
[32:17] Uh if there was a rule 15 on a
[32:18] particular docket of course
[32:20] that would all been made out
[32:22] and decided before they even
[32:24] got in on onto the agenda.
[32:28] So to me if we uh solve the
[32:29] issue then it's a regular
[32:31] docket that's on the agenda.
[32:32] That any council colleague.
[32:33] Could lock in to.
[32:34] >> be right.
[32:35] So what is the correct
[32:37] procedure especially if after
[32:39] the fact the chair agreed that
[32:41] it probably shouldn't have been
[32:41] blocked but it.
[32:43] Was and I get that when things
[32:46] are happening in real time
[32:47] things don't always.
[32:49] Go the way maybe be wanted but
[32:53] how do you then fix that right?
[32:55] How do you come back properly?
[32:56] I know I know the rules and.
[32:57] Robert's order but.
[33:00] Especially when it's a timely
[33:01] resolution.
[33:03] I that you wanted to.
[33:04] Have a vote on.
[33:05] You don't want a hearing you
[33:06] don't want to block.
[33:07] There's nothing to talk about.
[33:09] >> it's tied to a celebration
[33:10] like a flag raising.
[33:11] Yeah.
[33:12] >> so I.
[33:13] Think the two mechanisms would
[33:15] be if it's during the same
[33:16] meeting it could be a
[33:16] reconsideration.
[33:21] Um if it's stirring um if it's
[33:23] after a meeting um it would be
[33:25] by pulling it from the green
[33:26] sheets at the next meeting.
[33:27] Um, for that vote.
[33:34] Sometimes we do you know, on
[33:35] many occasions we've taken a
[33:37] recess as well to discuss
[33:38] certain things.
[33:38] Yeah.
[33:41] And if there's an issue or
[33:43] there's, uh, some ambiguity on
[33:44] a on a particular docket,
[33:46] of course we would take a a
[33:48] short recess to discuss it as
[33:49] well.
[33:50] And do you.
[33:52] Both feel as though that's
[33:54] reasonable if one of.
[33:54] >> the.
[33:56] Councilors feels as though
[33:59] there isn't enough time, you
[33:59] know, because it's quick, it's.
[34:00] Moving fast and.
[34:04] Procedures are being trumped
[34:05] with another one.
[34:06] And do you feel it's reasonable
[34:10] to call a recess to get
[34:10] flaherty, to.
[34:11] Feel as though.
[34:12] >> it's not being moved on and
[34:13] then pushed aside?
[34:15] Yeah, well if a
[34:16] council believes that you know
[34:18] they need to have.
[34:19] A further explanation.
[34:22] Like to me by for my opinion
[34:24] would be take a short recess
[34:26] and discuss that a little bit
[34:27] more and of course like
[34:29] michelle said you know
[34:30] council can move for
[34:32] reconsideration in the same
[34:32] meeting.
[34:34] Of course once the meeting ends
[34:36] then the next meeting you can
[34:38] have the option of pulling it
[34:38] from committee.
[34:40] All right thank you thank.
[34:42] You chair recognizes
[34:44] councilor flynn construed um.
[34:46] I'll have to reset.
[34:48] Seven minutes.
[34:51] >> well thank you, MADAM Chair.
[34:53] And thank you again to the city
[34:55] clerk and to the city
[34:56] council staff director for the
[35:00] important work you do every day
[35:02] on behalf of the city
[35:04] council and the residents
[35:04] of boston.
[35:09] I believe we have.
[35:17] Rules in place to ensure that
[35:18] the meetings go smoothly.
[35:20] They go effectively,
[35:22] efficiently and so that the
[35:27] public has a sense that this
[35:29] body is a serious body,
[35:31] understands the rules and is
[35:34] doing the people's work, the
[35:36] critical work of the residents
[35:37] of boston whether it's on
[35:39] public safety, whether it's on
[35:41] public education, public health
[35:46] or whatever it is my my main
[35:50] point is as the former city
[35:51] council PRESIDENT Just
[35:55] providing positive leadership
[35:57] to all city councilors
[35:59] regardless if you politically
[36:01] agree with them or politically
[36:04] disagree with them, that should
[36:07] be relevant to the case in
[36:11] deciding how you're going to
[36:14] for several I think as as a
[36:15] body we have to listen to each
[36:16] other.
[36:18] We have to respect each other,
[36:21] put personalities aside, um,
[36:23] put politics aside and do
[36:25] what's best for the residents
[36:27] of boston and that is coming
[36:32] together to solve problems and
[36:33] work with our colleagues,
[36:35] especially when we don't agree
[36:35] with each other.
[36:40] We can be we can we can still
[36:41] support each other.
[36:42] We can still work with each
[36:44] other even if we don't
[36:45] necessarily agree with each
[36:45] other.
[36:46] And that's what I've tried to
[36:49] do as the as the as the city
[36:50] council PRESIDENT And the city
[36:51] council here.
[36:53] I just want us to continue to
[36:56] move forward where as a body we
[36:58] respect each other and the
[37:00] public knows that we come to
[37:02] work every day to do the
[37:03] people's business.
[37:05] The public needs to be
[37:07] comfortable knowing that we
[37:10] show up every single day and on
[37:11] wednesday we know exactly what
[37:14] we're doing and doing our due
[37:16] diligence and providing the
[37:18] critical leadership for the
[37:19] residents of boston.
[37:20] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[37:22] Thank you, councilor flynn.
[37:23] Um.
[37:25] Councilor fitzgerald.
[37:28] Thank you, MADAM PRESIDENT.
[37:31] Um, let's start with some
[37:31] of the basics.
[37:32] What is the process right now?
[37:35] Oh, okay.
[37:38] The process for the, uh, went
[37:39] for the agenda.
[37:40] All the dockets are due by
[37:41] 10:00 on monday.
[37:44] Um, although council was have
[37:46] the opportunity to file things
[37:47] from the day after the
[37:48] wednesday meaning till that
[37:50] month the next monday.
[37:52] Uh, unfortunately a lot
[37:53] of councils don't file their
[37:56] dockets until 10 minutes or 15
[37:57] minutes before the deadline.
[37:58] So if you can.
[38:00] Imagine like the last meeting
[38:02] we had like I don't know 50
[38:03] dockets on the agenda so that's
[38:06] very time consuming to process
[38:08] each docket to make sure that
[38:11] it's in proper form to get the
[38:12] agenda created.
[38:14] And then when we do get the
[38:17] issues uh, rule 15 then I we
[38:19] have to stop and review those
[38:20] items.
[38:22] So I have to read the uh the
[38:24] order that is currently for the
[38:24] agenda.
[38:26] Then I have to compare.
[38:28] It to the previous order file
[38:29] like a few months before.
[38:31] So that's time consuming.
[38:33] And I also have to meet the
[38:34] requirements of the open
[38:36] meeting law because the agenda
[38:38] has to be posted at 12 noon.
[38:42] So so we do our due diligence,
[38:44] we create our uh the agenda and
[38:47] I do contact the council uh,
[38:49] personally uh regarding a rule
[38:53] 15 issue and either we speak on
[38:55] the phone or I go to the office
[38:57] and uh and that's happened with
[38:59] uh most of the council was here
[39:01] on the council now have gotten
[39:03] phone calls for me regarding
[39:05] rule 15 and a lot and 99%
[39:08] of the time the council is very
[39:09] agreeable.
[39:11] We change a few words here and
[39:12] there we change the title or
[39:14] the it's better or it's pulled
[39:15] and it's reworded and filed at
[39:16] the next meeting.
[39:19] So from that perspective, um,
[39:20] you know the back and forth
[39:22] with the council is usually
[39:23] pretty positive.
[39:25] And at that point who would
[39:25] win.
[39:25] Out on a.
[39:27] >> rule 15 is that the person
[39:28] who files first?
[39:30] Well when you file a document
[39:32] in the granicus it gets time
[39:32] stamped.
[39:35] So whoever gets the timestamp
[39:37] first then that is the doc that
[39:39] will be placed on on the
[39:39] agenda.
[39:41] And I imagine what we look for
[39:43] when looking at rule 15 is that
[39:44] you know, all of us councilors
[39:46] work word things a certain way
[39:50] to try and reflect a message or
[39:51] something button and a certain
[39:52] light.
[39:54] But um I imagine that you look
[39:55] for similar words.
[39:57] Similar yeah very similar
[39:59] message you know I mean that
[40:01] and that's but ultimately the
[40:02] final call is in your hands.
[40:03] Yeah.
[40:05] >> over the uh I would.
[40:05] >> read both.
[40:08] Dockets if they for me I picked
[40:10] uh try to find similar words
[40:12] and similar themes sometimes
[40:14] the titles are exactly the same
[40:14] as well.
[40:16] Uh and then I make a
[40:18] determination if it's a
[40:18] duplicate or not.
[40:21] But I also converse with the
[40:24] essential staff and with uh
[40:26] council uh attorney for the
[40:28] council as well and we all come
[40:31] to a determination sometimes
[40:33] it's easy to determine if it's
[40:34] a real 15 but other times it
[40:35] isn't.
[40:37] So you know I call the
[40:39] counselor and we talk about it
[40:41] and we try to review things and
[40:42] you know last year we had
[40:44] several rule fifteens on white
[40:47] stadium and that those were
[40:48] difficult uh discussions to
[40:50] have because some you know that
[40:53] was a very hot issue and uh
[40:57] back in 2025 so and most of the
[40:59] times the council would have
[41:01] pulled it back and reworded it
[41:02] and filed it at the next
[41:03] meeting.
[41:04] I guess what's difficult to
[41:06] kind of separate too is in an
[41:06] issue.
[41:09] There can be many sub issues
[41:10] and and you could file
[41:11] something on that issue.
[41:13] You could file something on the
[41:14] subset of that issue and a
[41:16] subset of that subset issue and
[41:18] is that in your eyes if you
[41:20] look at subsets of issues does
[41:21] that still ultimately rise
[41:23] under the statewide stadium for
[41:24] example does that all say well,
[41:25] someone else already filed
[41:28] something around a larger
[41:28] purview.
[41:29] Of you.
[41:30] >> know, economic development
[41:32] in white stadium and so there's
[41:34] no need for that specific
[41:35] language of a separate one even
[41:37] if it was time stamped prior.
[41:38] right.
[41:39] >> I don't you know, it.
[41:42] Depends on the uh the closing
[41:44] paragraph for me is what I
[41:47] usually focus on because you
[41:49] know, they MAY be to look it up
[41:50] words at the beginning of the
[41:52] order but at the end the
[41:54] summary tells me exactly what
[41:57] the council is intent is uh,
[41:59] most of the time and uh and if
[42:01] the intent is different than
[42:03] what the original one is I give
[42:04] them the benefit give the
[42:05] council the benefit of the
[42:06] doubt.
[42:08] But in other instances it's it
[42:10] brings the same to me and I.
[42:13] After conversing with uh, the
[42:17] central staff and and reviewing
[42:18] it again and then we make a
[42:19] determination from there.
[42:21] And how long has this current
[42:23] rule 15 been operating as it
[42:24] currently does?
[42:26] Uh, well.
[42:28] In 2020 the 26.
[42:29] Rules it's just the clerk makes
[42:33] the determination in 24 it was
[42:35] the uh the PRESIDENT.
[42:38] And the clerk and then in 22 it
[42:39] was just the clerk.
[42:40] Okay.
[42:42] >> so it's gone back and it was
[42:42] now reverted back.
[42:44] To the clerk.
[42:44] Um.
[42:46] ,okay.
[42:48] Um and in those in going back
[42:50] and forth and back and forth
[42:51] which were I mean personally I
[42:53] see the checks and balances
[42:55] of you making being defined
[42:57] elaborated on that I would.
[42:59] Yeah well in I was with.
[42:59] >> the.
[43:00] Council PRESIDENT.
[43:01] >> I would I would go down to
[43:03] the office and discuss it with
[43:06] her and and review the points
[43:08] that I thought were similar in
[43:10] nature and and you know, nine
[43:12] times out of ten the the
[43:13] PRESIDENT Would have agreed
[43:14] with me and then I would go to
[43:16] the council to the counselor
[43:19] and discuss it further and then
[43:19] we would go from there.
[43:20] All right.
[43:23] >> uh and that I think you've
[43:25] done a great job at that clerk
[43:26] and I can as long as we trust
[43:28] the person in your position to
[43:30] ,uh, arbitrarily and fairly
[43:31] make those decisions, I think
[43:32] it's a good check and balance
[43:33] on the council.
[43:33] Um.
[43:35] >> and I appreciate all your
[43:36] work and time that you put into
[43:38] that and we'll try and get it a
[43:39] little bit in before ten
[43:40] minutes to the deadline.
[43:41] It out.
[43:42] >> thank you council.
[43:42] Great thank you.
[43:43] That is all MADAM PRESIDENT.
[43:45] Thank you councilor fitzgerald
[43:47] chair recognizes I know just.
[43:47] Recently pete.
[43:49] Chair recognizes
[43:50] councilor durkan country you
[43:50] have the floor.
[43:51] Thank you so much chair
[43:52] bratton.
[43:53] Um and actually clark I
[43:55] recognize that at the last, um
[43:57] ,I filed something pretty late
[43:58] and it was one of the first
[43:59] things on the agenda.
[44:01] So I was my first inkling that
[44:02] people were filing things
[44:03] pretty late.
[44:05] So, um, so not an easy job that
[44:07] you have putting an agenda
[44:08] together in two hours.
[44:10] Um, and also not an easy job
[44:13] that, um, you rely on us to re
[44:15] approve you for your job so
[44:16] you're often trying to be the
[44:19] most fair and do a great job
[44:20] and a great balancing act.
[44:21] So clark, thank you for all
[44:22] that you do.
[44:25] Um, and, um, I know when it's
[44:26] time for you to retire we're
[44:27] going to we're going to have to
[44:28] give you so many flowers
[44:29] because we put you through a
[44:30] lot in the past few years.
[44:33] Um, so I definitely think
[44:34] there's a difference between
[44:36] rule 15 and rule 33.
[44:38] Um, so I just wanted to ask a
[44:41] question about um obviously um
[44:46] I think in the specific um
[44:48] anecdote that's was the cause
[44:50] of this hearing.
[44:53] Um, I objected to a filing on
[44:56] the basis of rule 15, but rule
[44:57] 33 is actually.
[44:58] >> the.
[45:01] Rule that allows for a city
[45:03] councilor to, um, you know,
[45:04] object to a filing.
[45:06] Can you speak a little more to
[45:06] that?
[45:10] Um, to rule 33 and uh,
[45:14] obviously um, rule 33 is where
[45:15] it is derived that city
[45:17] councilors can object on the
[45:20] first day um, like on you know,
[45:21] on the first day that it's
[45:22] introduced before the council.
[45:25] But well, usually the uh on the
[45:26] um.
[45:28] One step back we're going to
[45:31] move 15 of the rule 15 uh
[45:33] issues take place before the
[45:34] agenda is even published.
[45:36] So when the agenda when we come
[45:38] to our meeting and the agenda
[45:40] is all there and ready to go,
[45:43] uh, and if a docket doesn't get
[45:45] unanimous consent to pass and
[45:46] then there's an objection
[45:47] of course it goes to committee.
[45:49] So like there were two
[45:50] objections in the last meeting.
[45:50] Yes.
[45:54] so that that whatever happens
[45:55] in the meeting I think it
[45:58] doesn't really reflect back to
[45:59] rule 15 because that was
[46:01] already you know, the issue was
[46:03] reviewed prior to the meeting.
[46:06] So it's kind of it's improper
[46:08] you know, taking the women's
[46:09] history month as the anecdote
[46:11] here, um, it's improper to cite
[46:13] rule 15 because rule 15 the
[46:16] powers with the clerk wear rule
[46:18] 33 the powers with the council.
[46:18] Okay.
[46:24] >> um and I guess um, I know
[46:25] when I want to pass something
[46:27] the same day there's a number
[46:28] of people I usually need to
[46:30] talk to to ensure that it's not
[46:31] going to be blocked.
[46:33] Otherwise I might be surprised
[46:35] on the day that I file
[46:35] something.
[46:37] Um, particularly there's a
[46:38] couple of landmarks that I
[46:40] tried to suspend in past that
[46:41] were objected to.
[46:44] Um, so I know that if I want to
[46:46] bring something to the floor on
[46:49] the same day for passage that
[46:51] often I need to check with my
[46:52] colleagues to make sure that
[46:53] they're okay with suspension
[46:56] and passage on on the day and
[46:58] that is because of rule 33
[47:01] knowing that, um, you know,
[47:02] someone might want a hearing
[47:04] for a specific docket, they
[47:06] might want more information um,
[47:09] at least for me for rule 15
[47:10] given all everything that
[47:11] you've, you know, already
[47:14] spoken to and given the
[47:15] verbiage um, and given that the
[47:17] city council um unanimously
[47:19] approved the rules um, I don't
[47:20] have any questions about rule
[47:21] 15 in particular.
[47:25] Um, I will say that um, now
[47:27] having this hearing um and
[47:28] hearing from my colleagues uh,
[47:30] on this issue, I think it's
[47:32] improper to cite rule 15 as a
[47:33] reason that you're objecting to
[47:33] a docket.
[47:36] So, um, given that that gives
[47:37] power to the clerk and not to
[47:38] the.
[47:38] Council.
[47:42] >> um, I'll say that I haven't
[47:44] always been completely
[47:46] satisfied with um, rule 15,
[47:47] particularly when it comes to
[47:48] my committee.
[47:51] Um, because often there are
[47:52] duplicative dockets that I end
[47:53] up combining to have one
[47:56] hearing on the subject because
[47:57] it's the same stakeholders that
[48:00] are interested in the multiple
[48:01] subject matter.
[48:04] I think my uh, charge for our
[48:06] colleagues is that if you
[48:08] jointly care about an issue, we
[48:09] should work on those issues
[48:09] together.
[48:11] And I think it actually creates
[48:14] for a more robust hearing when
[48:16] especially just um, with
[48:17] planning, development and
[48:18] transportation I think it
[48:19] creates for a more robust
[48:22] hearing when all of the people
[48:23] who care about a specific
[48:24] subject matter are working on
[48:26] the same docket and working on
[48:27] the same issue.
[48:31] Um, and I think that if
[48:31] colleagues.
[48:33] Were willing to talk to each
[48:34] other, a lot of these issues
[48:35] would not exist.
[48:38] Um, because we know baseline
[48:39] what our colleagues were
[48:39] working on.
[48:41] Um, so we would yeah.
[48:44] And there have been times where
[48:46] I call it being scooped you get
[48:48] scooped on an issue, you care
[48:49] deeply about it.
[48:50] you've already you MAY have
[48:51] already written the filing.
[48:53] It might be sitting in your
[48:56] drive and it gets filed before
[48:59] um one of those examples was um
[49:02] single stare uh, reform um, my
[49:04] office had been part of a
[49:06] statewide working group for
[49:07] literally six months.
[49:08] We were joining meetings for
[49:09] six months on single stair
[49:10] reform and the
[49:11] council PRESIDENT And her team
[49:13] had been working on the same
[49:13] thing.
[49:16] She filed it and I went
[49:17] directly to her office and
[49:19] said, you know, hey, I'd really
[49:20] love to be on this.
[49:21] I've actually been working on
[49:21] this statewide.
[49:25] Um, so um that's the kind
[49:26] of collaboration that should
[49:27] exist in the council and
[49:28] doesn't always exist in the
[49:28] council.
[49:31] Um, and I think um it makes it
[49:32] harder to collaborate with
[49:33] colleagues when they are
[49:34] calling you things in the news.
[49:36] And I think that's something
[49:39] that we need to think about is
[49:42] um, if we're going to hurl
[49:43] things at people in the
[49:44] news and then not respond to
[49:47] their emails um, I think that
[49:51] is really important, um, that
[49:52] we have that level
[49:53] of collaboration where if we
[49:54] asked to meet they'll meet with
[49:57] us and um, I think that to be
[50:00] honest like that's where all
[50:01] this is coming from, we
[50:02] wouldn't need to have an entire
[50:03] hearing on roles if we just
[50:05] talked to each other and had
[50:06] more collaboration.
[50:07] Thank you.
[50:08] Thank you, councilor durkan.
[50:11] Uh, the chair recognizes, uh,
[50:12] councilor weber.
[50:13] Councilor, you have the floor.
[50:13] Uh.
[50:14] >> thank you.
[50:16] Uh, I guess for uh for the
[50:16] clerk.
[50:19] Um, so it's a sub topic you can
[50:21] file something on a sub topic.
[50:24] How do you define sub topic or
[50:24] what do you.
[50:26] Look at to.
[50:28] Is that just like you know when
[50:28] you see.
[50:28] >> it.
[50:29] For us.
[50:31] As well I would read it over
[50:33] and uh you know it depends on
[50:34] what the outcome is of that
[50:36] order in the in the summary
[50:37] of the last paragraph.
[50:40] That certainly determines for
[50:42] me if it would be a duplicate
[50:44] uh, docket or not here.
[50:46] And even if there was uh like
[50:48] white stating is a good issue
[50:49] because then there was a lot
[50:50] of different orders filed for
[50:53] white stadium on many different
[50:55] areas of like construction and
[50:57] financing and budgeting and
[50:58] community input and all that.
[51:02] So you know, those those those
[51:03] orders were somewhat you know,
[51:05] a little bit more tedious to
[51:07] review because I had to
[51:09] determine what the outcome
[51:11] of that particular ward or what
[51:12] the intention of it is.
[51:16] So nine times out of ten I we
[51:18] would determine that it is a
[51:21] separate distinct order and it
[51:22] doesn't really conflict with
[51:24] the others even though it
[51:25] seemed duplicate.
[51:26] To be to uh.
[51:27] Duplicate but.
[51:29] The outcome is different.
[51:32] So that would be probably the
[51:35] best example I could give in
[51:37] terms of a sub a sub topic uh
[51:39] on an order uh again.
[51:41] We review it with michelle and
[51:42] with the council's central
[51:46] staff and and we come to a
[51:48] consensus and we go from there.
[51:51] So uh, I guess is it fair to.
[51:51] Say that you.
[51:53] You're you're trying to get.
[51:54] >> the the, uh, filing.
[51:57] Onto the agenda like, you know,
[51:58] you said nine times out of ten
[51:59] you you can find a sub.
[52:01] Topic like we.
[52:03] Just you're for you
[52:03] individually.
[52:04] Are you?
[52:04] Yeah.
[52:05] >> do you do you.
[52:06] Are you just.
[52:09] Looking at this and calling
[52:10] and strikes on that or are you
[52:11] trying to find a way to get the
[52:14] filing you know not you're not
[52:15] have to invoke rule 15.
[52:15] Well when we.
[52:16] Uh get.
[52:17] >> all.
[52:17] The.
[52:18] Dockets by 10:00, you know.
[52:19] It's like a.
[52:19] Race for.
[52:21] >> 12 because the open meeting
[52:22] while we have to.
[52:25] Post everything at 12:00 and so
[52:29] in in in in 2026 I've had 16
[52:32] rule 15 items so those uh they
[52:33] take up a lot of time.
[52:35] To review to.
[52:36] Read the order.
[52:37] Sometimes an order is like one
[52:40] page of orders are like 3 or 4
[52:42] pages so I have to read the
[52:43] current order than.
[52:44] Review the previous.
[52:45] >> one that's a duplicate.
[52:47] Uh so that involves a lot
[52:50] of time and and for me I have
[52:52] to abide by the open meeting
[52:54] law so I call the
[52:55] council directly or I come down
[52:56] to the office I review
[52:59] everything, we talk with the
[53:01] central staff and we try to
[53:03] come to a decision to to see if
[53:07] it is truly a duplicate for and
[53:08] nine times out of ten we do
[53:10] that pretty quickly and and
[53:12] then if it isn't then it will
[53:13] go on to the agenda and be part
[53:15] of the meeting at the next
[53:16] meeting okay.
[53:18] And I guess with all of your
[53:20] experience with this rule is
[53:22] there is there any additional
[53:23] guidance or anything that you
[53:24] know in the rule that you.
[53:26] Think the council.
[53:28] Could help you out on uh, with
[53:30] the language in the rule or do
[53:30] you feel like yeah.
[53:32] This this well I think.
[53:33] >> for me for for me and my
[53:36] staff especially we uh there's
[53:39] like a race for 12 noon and you
[53:42] know, I my hope is that the
[53:44] council has could submit items
[53:46] sooner than ten minutes before
[53:46] 10:00.
[53:49] Uh, and we have discussed the
[53:51] possibility of changing that,
[53:52] but we you know, that's still
[53:54] like an idea that we could.
[53:58] Introduce but the.
[54:00] The dockets the filing
[54:01] of dockets actually has
[54:01] increased.
[54:02] A great.
[54:03] Deal in the last few years like
[54:07] in 2025 there was 2114 dockets
[54:07] filed.
[54:12] Where in 19 2019 it was 1700.
[54:14] So so far in.
[54:18] 2026 we've had uh 1588 dockets
[54:18] file.
[54:21] So each meeting that we have
[54:21] there's a.
[54:23] Great amount of dockets on the
[54:23] end.
[54:25] Those dockets all have to be
[54:27] reviewed by myself and my staff
[54:28] .
[54:30] So that takes uh quite a bit
[54:33] of time to to get the agenda
[54:35] created, assign docket numbers
[54:35] to them.
[54:38] Uh, if there are all 15 items
[54:40] then we have to contact the
[54:42] council or come down and talk
[54:43] to the counselor.
[54:45] Uh, so all that takes time and
[54:48] then hopefully by there was one
[54:50] instance where we posted the
[54:53] agenda at like 1201 because we
[54:55] had to review.
[54:55] >> certain.
[54:56] Certain things on that
[54:57] particular order with the
[54:58] council.
[55:00] So you know, we try to do.
[55:02] >> our due diligence and I try
[55:05] to process everything as
[55:06] quickly as I can to meet the
[55:08] open meeting deadline.
[55:09] Okay.
[55:11] >> so you know I'm I'm writing
[55:12] down make sure everything filed
[55:14] at least 11 minutes before.
[55:15] The deadline so you won't blame
[55:15] me.
[55:18] Um uh, but uh, so it sounds
[55:20] like that that that's that's an
[55:23] issue uh, and the number
[55:25] of filings makes it, uh,
[55:28] stressful uh, to get through
[55:29] everything but in terms of the
[55:31] rule itself, like when you're
[55:34] applying rule 15, um, have you
[55:35] is there some something in
[55:36] there that you keep going?
[55:39] Um, I wish they had not done
[55:39] that or.
[55:40] Clarified something.
[55:41] The language for rule 15.
[55:43] Has pretty much been
[55:44] consistent.
[55:45] Sure for the last few years.
[55:48] So I don't think that's the
[55:48] issue.
[55:50] I think the issue is uh to
[55:51] review the dockets did making
[55:54] the determination uh, working
[55:57] with the counselor um I think
[55:58] another.
[56:00] Uh aspect of all this is we
[56:02] have the green sheet so all the
[56:03] counselors have that
[56:03] information.
[56:06] Yeah, the tip of their hands to
[56:08] before they file any dockets.
[56:08] They could.
[56:09] >> review the.
[56:09] Green sheets.
[56:11] And say, oh.
[56:14] There's a similar sounding
[56:15] docket on the green sheets
[56:16] already.
[56:18] So that could be a step that a.
[56:20] Council could take to avoid any
[56:21] rule 15.
[56:23] Issues okay.
[56:24] Yeah yeah.
[56:26] Sorry I just um because we did
[56:27] go back to kind of review the
[56:29] history of rule 15 before the
[56:31] um before this hearing I just
[56:32] wanted to share because it's
[56:34] interesting also but um, you
[56:35] know, rule 15 comes up for the
[56:36] first time in our council rules
[56:40] and like the 1980s um, and then
[56:43] um it was expanded slightly in
[56:45] the early 90s.
[56:47] Um, we're making an assumption
[56:48] because there were duplicate
[56:49] matters in the previous year
[56:51] that um, you know, the team was
[56:53] able to go back and find um and
[56:54] then it remained largely
[56:58] unchanged until um the past few
[57:01] terms um when it became
[57:03] something that was coming up in
[57:04] conversations with the clerk,
[57:06] with myself and at our rules
[57:08] committee meetings, um, to
[57:08] review.
[57:09] The rules.
[57:11] So the current iteration
[57:14] of rule 15, um, tried to
[57:16] address some of the concerns
[57:19] that people had in the um the
[57:21] end of 2025 at the last rules
[57:21] meeting.
[57:23] So at that last rules meeting
[57:25] people talked about, you know,
[57:26] how things you know should be
[57:28] allowed if they do evolve or
[57:28] subtopics should.
[57:29] Be evolved.
[57:30] Um or some topics should be
[57:31] allowed.
[57:33] So all of that language was
[57:36] added in in as a response to
[57:37] what councilors had indicated
[57:40] they were hoping to see um
[57:43] change about that rule from
[57:43] 2025 to 2026.
[57:48] Um, so I think you can kind
[57:49] of see us continuing to
[57:51] struggle about how to implement
[57:51] that.
[57:54] Um, because um.
[57:56] You know it.
[57:59] You know it we add more
[58:00] language but it's not
[58:01] necessarily more clear.
[58:03] So okay.
[58:04] Thank you very much.
[58:04] Thank you chair.
[58:05] Thank you.
[58:07] Um, chair recognizes constable
[58:09] culpeper councilor you have the
[58:09] floor.
[58:10] Thank you, MADAM PRESIDENT.
[58:13] Thank you, mr clerk.
[58:15] Turn.
[58:18] Michelle, is there any written
[58:21] um, objective standard that you
[58:26] use when you begin to review
[58:27] two dockets that have been
[58:28] filed that seem like a similar.
[58:30] I just.
[58:32] Uh, whatever whatever is in the
[58:34] order I read the order I read
[58:36] the previous order that seems
[58:39] to be the duplicate and I just
[58:41] make it that way if I see I
[58:44] read enough duplicate uh
[58:45] duplication in the wording and
[58:47] the intent in the theme of the
[58:50] order that's how I determine if
[58:51] it's a duplicate or not.
[58:53] So the there's no written
[58:54] objective criteria.
[58:54] No.
[58:54] Okay.
[58:56] I think I would just say beyond
[58:57] what's in the rules.
[58:58] So the difference for this year
[59:00] is that we've um the clerk you
[59:01] know or the rule has changed to
[59:03] focus more on whether something
[59:05] would result in the same kind
[59:06] of hearing.
[59:09] Um, so I think that's been the
[59:10] kind of like written standard
[59:11] that's changed a little bit.
[59:14] I think what I'm probably more
[59:16] concerned about is when there's
[59:19] a disagreement with the clerk,
[59:20] then what happens?
[59:23] Um, and I'm wondering whether
[59:26] the council should have uh.
[59:31] Some appeal mechanism whether
[59:34] to the PRESIDENT Or whether
[59:36] it's, uh, to the council or
[59:41] another process where um, the
[59:44] council that has a disagreement
[59:48] can appeal to uh or whether
[59:51] there's there should be a
[59:53] mechanism for reconsideration
[59:55] just to give a councilors an
[59:57] opportunity to state their case
[59:57] .
[1:00:02] Um, in case they disagree with
[1:00:03] the final decision.
[1:00:11] And uh, and you know, because
[1:00:12] it's going to happen there's
[1:00:14] going to be situations where
[1:00:15] council is going to say um I
[1:00:15] don't.
[1:00:19] Should we have some kind
[1:00:20] of appeal mechanism?
[1:00:22] And in that case whether it's
[1:00:23] to the PRESIDENT Or whether
[1:00:26] it's to the PRESIDENT To bring
[1:00:29] to the council itself so the
[1:00:33] council rules on it, uh,
[1:00:35] because I can't see where there
[1:00:37] MAY be situations in the
[1:00:40] future, uh, where council will
[1:00:43] disagree and get uh again and
[1:00:44] not me now.
[1:00:49] But I think we should think
[1:00:49] about that.
[1:00:50] Yeah.
[1:00:53] Um, MR. Clerk, just so it
[1:00:56] relieves you of always having
[1:01:01] to be the final arbiter um, and
[1:01:05] to give a counselor, uh, some
[1:01:09] option in case you want a
[1:01:11] reconsideration or to appeal to
[1:01:11] the body.
[1:01:13] The reason why I say appeal to
[1:01:16] the PRESIDENT Or to the body
[1:01:17] because I know you've got that
[1:01:18] file and you've got that
[1:01:19] deadline.
[1:01:21] There wouldn't be time really?
[1:01:26] Because I think in some
[1:01:28] of these rule 15 matters they
[1:01:32] come up so quickly when someone
[1:01:34] file something you look at it
[1:01:36] say oh my GOD got something
[1:01:39] filed already it's 11:45.
[1:01:41] Uh so you're trying to.
[1:01:48] Review it, come to the
[1:01:50] PRESIDENT Then get to the
[1:01:50] counselor.
[1:01:55] Um and this probably not enough
[1:01:58] time and some situations.
[1:02:00] So I'm wondering if we should
[1:02:03] think about some kind of appeal
[1:02:06] procedure where if some of the
[1:02:07] disagrees with and not MAY now
[1:02:08] .
[1:02:10] Well, there have been occasions
[1:02:12] when it at one here at one
[1:02:14] particular meeting we've had
[1:02:17] you know 3 to 15 items and
[1:02:19] that's where I my opinion is
[1:02:22] that is there's not enough time
[1:02:23] for me to review right.
[1:02:25] Um those three if I going to
[1:02:28] post the agenda at 12 noon and
[1:02:30] and then reviewing a rule 15
[1:02:33] item is becomes tedious because
[1:02:34] you have to read the the
[1:02:36] current one you have to read
[1:02:37] the uh the previous one you
[1:02:39] have to contact the counselor
[1:02:41] night then I you know, I've
[1:02:43] been upstairs for 20 years and
[1:02:46] uh, my experience has been most
[1:02:48] the council is that I've dealt
[1:02:50] with over the years have been
[1:02:53] very agreeable to my, um,
[1:02:55] observation and opinion of what
[1:02:57] the duplication is.
[1:02:58] But there have been occasions
[1:03:00] when yes, you you're right a
[1:03:01] council that digs in and says
[1:03:03] no it's not the same.
[1:03:06] It's uh it this the outcome
[1:03:07] of this is going to be
[1:03:08] different and I don't agree
[1:03:11] with you so but I you know
[1:03:13] there was I think one occasion
[1:03:15] many years ago that that did
[1:03:16] happen.
[1:03:17] I was there probably the there
[1:03:18] was the assistant clerk back
[1:03:21] then but I think we allowed
[1:03:22] something to go on the agenda
[1:03:25] and then whatever the
[1:03:26] council wanted to do with that
[1:03:28] item then that would be voted
[1:03:28] on during the meeting.
[1:03:31] So I think that goes back to.
[1:03:32] The interplay with rule five.
[1:03:34] So I mean I don't want to know
[1:03:35] if it my understanding is that,
[1:03:37] you know, if that disagreement
[1:03:39] does happen you would tend to
[1:03:40] allow the filing to move
[1:03:41] forward.
[1:03:43] Um, and then once it's on the
[1:03:45] agenda, if the PRESIDENT Or
[1:03:47] another councilor feels that it
[1:03:49] is duplicative and should have
[1:03:51] been brought 15, they would
[1:03:53] make a case under rule five
[1:03:55] because rule five is within the
[1:03:56] council to rule that out
[1:03:58] of order for the same reasons.
[1:04:00] Was that something that came to
[1:04:00] the full council?
[1:04:03] So the way rule five works is
[1:04:04] that it's technically the
[1:04:05] PRESIDENT Who rules it out
[1:04:06] of order.
[1:04:07] no, I understand it's subject
[1:04:09] to appeal so it would be up for
[1:04:10] a vote okay.
[1:04:13] Yeah but it has to come to the
[1:04:15] PRESIDENT By way of the clerk
[1:04:17] bringing it to the PRESIDENT Or
[1:04:19] just hit the floor because it
[1:04:20] was on the agenda.
[1:04:20] Right.
[1:04:22] And what I'm saying is maybe
[1:04:26] there's something where it
[1:04:29] doesn't go to the floor at that
[1:04:32] point, uh, without using rule
[1:04:34] five whether we could seriously
[1:04:37] think about having some kind
[1:04:38] of procedure without using rule
[1:04:42] five where if someone really
[1:04:44] dug in with the clerk it could
[1:04:49] then go to the PRESIDENT Or to
[1:04:49] the body.
[1:04:51] I just think there has to be
[1:04:54] some kind of kill mechanism
[1:04:57] that allows that council to
[1:05:01] take their um argument or their
[1:05:05] position uh, that differs with
[1:05:07] the clerks to the PRESIDENT Or
[1:05:08] the council or something.
[1:05:12] I just think that's something
[1:05:13] we might want to think about
[1:05:16] and um, save you a little
[1:05:19] aggravation of questioning and
[1:05:19] uh.
[1:05:23] Well, usually the uh if that uh
[1:05:25] ,issue occurs, uh, like
[1:05:26] michelle said, you know, we
[1:05:28] would allow it to be filed as
[1:05:30] part of the agenda and be a
[1:05:32] part of the regular meeting and
[1:05:34] then at the meeting the
[1:05:35] council could get up and say,
[1:05:36] well, this is the reason why I
[1:05:37] think this is different.
[1:05:39] And if his colleagues agree
[1:05:41] with that then it could be
[1:05:42] passed or referred to
[1:05:43] committee.
[1:05:45] It could be objected to but
[1:05:46] that would be on the floor
[1:05:47] of the of the meeting and the
[1:05:48] council meeting.
[1:05:51] can we put that in writing or
[1:05:53] some way formalize that so the
[1:05:56] councilors will know uh, that's
[1:05:59] uh protocol procedure that
[1:05:59] could be.
[1:06:01] >> we could create something.
[1:06:01] >> yes.
[1:06:02] So yeah yeah.
[1:06:04] Thank you.
[1:06:07] Appreciate how uh and and I can
[1:06:09] only talk for about the eight
[1:06:11] months that I've been here and
[1:06:14] how we've had real good
[1:06:16] discussion sometimes sometimes
[1:06:17] intense discussion.
[1:06:17] Yes.
[1:06:20] Uh, with megan and, uh and meg
[1:06:21] is not here.
[1:06:24] She's, uh, been very helpful.
[1:06:25] All of you have been very
[1:06:25] helpful.
[1:06:28] I think the relationship lends
[1:06:29] itself to even if there is a
[1:06:31] proper procedure, it will still
[1:06:33] be as smooth as things have
[1:06:34] been.
[1:06:37] And, uh, just appreciate work
[1:06:37] with you.
[1:06:40] I think part probably what
[1:06:41] happens is when you do that
[1:06:42] prayer.
[1:06:45] I've been doing a lot of press.
[1:06:47] >> I know you write.
[1:06:49] Pretty good.
[1:06:50] .
[1:06:52] >> uh well thank you
[1:06:54] councilor I think um being here
[1:06:56] and uh, for in the clerk's
[1:06:58] office for 20 years I have a
[1:07:00] like a very unique perspective
[1:07:03] on the what the
[1:07:04] responsibilities are and the
[1:07:07] doing the agendas and uh,
[1:07:08] reviewing the dockets but I
[1:07:10] think in the with with what you
[1:07:13] just said I, I agree with that
[1:07:16] because that will release any
[1:07:18] tensions between the our
[1:07:20] offices you know the 13
[1:07:21] council is you know I have 13
[1:07:24] bosses so over the years and I
[1:07:26] come to this job as an open as
[1:07:28] with an open mind every single
[1:07:29] day because at the end of the
[1:07:31] day it's we like
[1:07:32] councilor flynn said you know
[1:07:34] we're here to to move the
[1:07:36] people's business forward and
[1:07:37] and work for the citizens
[1:07:39] of boston and for me it doesn't
[1:07:41] matter what side of the
[1:07:43] political spectrum a
[1:07:45] councilor is for me it's
[1:07:47] reading the order determining
[1:07:49] if it's a duplicate,
[1:07:52] determining what the outcome uh
[1:07:53] ,is the intended outcome
[1:07:54] of the order is.
[1:07:57] So I've always taken that open
[1:07:59] mind approach and will continue
[1:07:59] to do that.
[1:08:00] And I think that.
[1:08:06] Thank you.
[1:08:09] >> because you.
[1:08:14] >> thank you thank you,
[1:08:15] councilor culpepper.
[1:08:20] Um, let me see I I know that we
[1:08:22] we changed the rules back to
[1:08:23] having you mean the sole
[1:08:25] arbiter um, when we did the
[1:08:27] changes for 20 2627
[1:08:29] council session, uh, we
[1:08:31] rephrased for flaherty, uh, and
[1:08:34] how specify the intent of the
[1:08:36] rule and to clarify that you
[1:08:38] were, uh, the decision maker
[1:08:40] and I did also attempted to
[1:08:42] clarify what should and should
[1:08:43] not be considered duplicative.
[1:08:46] I think also the the decision
[1:08:48] that we made as a as a body
[1:08:51] when we changed the rules uh,
[1:08:53] in in at the beginning of the
[1:08:56] year adding the sentence um
[1:08:57] prescribing that when rule 15
[1:08:59] should not be invoked filings
[1:09:02] whose content is on a different
[1:09:04] sub target topic or a sub topic
[1:09:07] not specified or that that
[1:09:10] should not have reasonably been
[1:09:11] expected to be covered by the
[1:09:13] previous filing or topics on
[1:09:15] topic finding some topics for
[1:09:18] which content has evolved since
[1:09:19] the previous filing because
[1:09:21] things change in the world um
[1:09:23] so long as the hearing or
[1:09:25] debate on the new filing would
[1:09:26] not result in the same hearing
[1:09:28] or same debate that would
[1:09:30] otherwise have been under the
[1:09:32] previous filing, I think it's
[1:09:34] the sole purpose of um you
[1:09:35] know, we should try and keep it
[1:09:36] streamlined that we're not
[1:09:37] having duplicative hearings.
[1:09:41] Um, and to um, you know, so a
[1:09:43] hearing order for an update on
[1:09:45] a topic matter or a matter that
[1:09:46] has already had a hearing is
[1:09:48] now no longer considered
[1:09:51] duplicate if if the landscape
[1:09:52] was changed and there's a
[1:09:54] timely reason to have an update
[1:09:55] on that topic.
[1:09:57] So I think those are good
[1:09:58] improvements I think and in
[1:10:00] terms of are there other
[1:10:02] categories of filings laguna we
[1:10:03] have hearing orders.
[1:10:05] We have uh resolutions are
[1:10:08] there categories where the rule
[1:10:11] 15 rule should be the 15 should
[1:10:13] be applied differently like is
[1:10:14] this a different weight to it
[1:10:16] if it's a hearing versus a
[1:10:17] resolution or whatever?
[1:10:19] Uh I've always treated them
[1:10:21] both the same in terms
[1:10:23] of reading them and determining
[1:10:24] if they are duplicative or not.
[1:10:27] Uh, if enough words come out
[1:10:29] that are the same or similar
[1:10:30] and the outcome is the same,
[1:10:32] then I would consider that a
[1:10:32] duplicate.
[1:10:35] But however there could be
[1:10:38] instances where there are
[1:10:40] situations where it differs a
[1:10:41] bit and the outcome is
[1:10:42] different.
[1:10:44] So if it's an order or if it's
[1:10:46] a resolution uh, if it's an
[1:10:48] order for one uh issue and the
[1:10:50] resolution is on the same issue
[1:10:51] then that's those are two
[1:10:53] different things one's an auto
[1:10:54] one's a resolution.
[1:10:57] So I wouldn't rule 15 those.
[1:10:59] Okay thank you.
[1:11:02] And does the current language
[1:11:03] give you enough flaherty and
[1:11:05] enough guidance like it's it's
[1:11:06] I think it's trying to fight I
[1:11:07] think it has improved but
[1:11:09] doesn't give you enough enough
[1:11:10] flaherty and enough guidance to
[1:11:12] to make consistent
[1:11:12] determinations.
[1:11:14] I know I think what I'm hearing
[1:11:15] from you is the biggest factor
[1:11:17] is actually the time time I'd
[1:11:19] like to review the prop um.
[1:11:20] The timing is the issue for
[1:11:24] me and you know if I I have to
[1:11:25] go through these things quickly
[1:11:27] and sometimes doing by doing
[1:11:31] that you know, I could MISS The
[1:11:31] interpretation by doing it
[1:11:33] quickly uh, of a particular
[1:11:34] order.
[1:11:36] But again I have to follow the
[1:11:38] uh, open meeting law and I have
[1:11:39] to post everything by 12.
[1:11:42] Uh, so when everything gets
[1:11:46] posted uh, the the amount
[1:11:49] of filings has significantly
[1:11:50] increased in the last couple
[1:11:51] of years.
[1:11:53] So that makes our jobs a little
[1:11:55] bit more difficult and tedious
[1:11:57] and processing everything.
[1:11:59] But I mean we get it done and
[1:12:01] it's uh posted at 12 noon.
[1:12:04] Uh, like I said, there was a
[1:12:05] meeting where I had like 3 or 4
[1:12:08] rule 15 possible rule 15 items.
[1:12:10] So we have to review each one
[1:12:12] and then contact the counselor
[1:12:15] for each for each order so that
[1:12:17] we try to do that as quickly as
[1:12:17] possible.
[1:12:19] So you don't have a lot of time
[1:12:20] for a turnaround.
[1:12:22] Now the other question I had is
[1:12:24] and this is generally in the
[1:12:25] rules, it used to be that you
[1:12:27] had to make your filings on
[1:12:27] friday afternoon.
[1:12:29] The deadline for filings was
[1:12:31] friday afternoon and I would
[1:12:32] please.
[1:12:32] Change the.
[1:12:33] >> what is it?
[1:12:34] I don't even remember if we
[1:12:35] ever had done that.
[1:12:36] Yeah.
[1:12:38] >> um but I have suggested that
[1:12:40] we do that in a memo that I
[1:12:42] sent out last year regarding
[1:12:44] filings because a lot of them
[1:12:46] like I said, a lot
[1:12:47] of counselors file everything
[1:12:50] like a quarter or ten on monday
[1:12:50] morning.
[1:12:52] I did have made the suggestion
[1:12:54] that we could councils could
[1:12:57] file things starting at 4:00 on
[1:12:57] friday.
[1:12:59] Because we did that.
[1:13:01] >> but during covid yeah we did
[1:13:03] that and during covid but if we
[1:13:05] if council file things on
[1:13:08] friday at least uh we have some
[1:13:08] time in.
[1:13:11] On monday morning not it
[1:13:14] starting at ten but when staff
[1:13:16] gets in at 830 they have access
[1:13:18] to all the dockets earlier than
[1:13:20] at 10:00.
[1:13:21] So that would make life.
[1:13:23] Easier and make life easier in
[1:13:25] terms of rule 15 yes.
[1:13:25] Yeah.
[1:13:27] >> especially given the
[1:13:27] increased volume.
[1:13:27] Yeah.
[1:13:28] >> okay.
[1:13:29] >> um.
[1:13:33] >> that's all I know my time
[1:13:34] i'm just watching watching it
[1:13:36] but um, councilor murphy, would
[1:13:36] you.
[1:13:38] Yeah I'm going to give you
[1:13:39] another um another four
[1:13:40] minutes.
[1:13:40] Thank you.
[1:13:41] Um.
[1:13:45] >> thank you to my colleagues
[1:13:47] who are here in the state.
[1:13:49] I don't think it's productive
[1:13:51] if we make accusations and walk
[1:13:52] away, especially because these
[1:13:54] are filings we're referring to
[1:13:56] that were about women's history
[1:13:57] and I don't think there ever
[1:13:59] can be too many filings where
[1:14:00] we're advocating and uplifting
[1:14:02] women, especially in 2026.
[1:14:05] I do just want to be clear and
[1:14:06] then ask for your opinion again
[1:14:08] even though I know I got it way
[1:14:10] back in FEBRUARY when you made
[1:14:11] a call to me.
[1:14:15] So I filed a resolution
[1:14:17] recognizing MARCH as women's
[1:14:19] history month and as the chair
[1:14:21] of strong women families in
[1:14:21] community.
[1:14:24] Um was also tying it into a
[1:14:25] celebration we were going to
[1:14:26] have and my title was
[1:14:28] resolution recognizing MARCH is
[1:14:30] women's history month talked
[1:14:32] about the contributions women
[1:14:34] have made in the city of boston
[1:14:36] and meanwhile meaningful
[1:14:38] progress has been made blah
[1:14:38] blah blah.
[1:14:39] We should continue to support
[1:14:42] and advocate in my now there be
[1:14:44] for it which is what you say
[1:14:45] you go to that clause said that
[1:14:48] the boston city council hereby
[1:14:49] recognize MARCH is women's
[1:14:51] history month and honors the
[1:14:52] contributions, leadership and
[1:14:54] achievements of women in boston
[1:14:54] .
[1:14:57] The other hearing that was
[1:14:58] filed which I was supporting
[1:15:00] and signing on and thought both
[1:15:02] should be brought forward had a
[1:15:05] different focus which I know
[1:15:06] when we talked to agreed is why
[1:15:09] you kept both on a resolution
[1:15:10] recognizing women's history and
[1:15:11] reaffirming boston's commitment
[1:15:13] to women's rights.
[1:15:15] One of the whereas is was
[1:15:17] focusing on recent federal
[1:15:19] actions and judicial decisions
[1:15:20] have weakened protections
[1:15:22] related to reproductive health
[1:15:23] care, workplace rights, civil
[1:15:25] rights enforcement and gender
[1:15:27] based discrimination, placing
[1:15:28] women's health autonomy and
[1:15:29] safety at risk.
[1:15:31] These federal rollbacks
[1:15:33] disproportionately harm women
[1:15:34] of color low income women,
[1:15:36] immigrant women, lgbtq plus
[1:15:37] women and women with
[1:15:39] disabilities compounding
[1:15:41] existing inequities within our
[1:15:43] communities all agree with that
[1:15:44] this moment demands renewed
[1:15:45] local leadership to affirm that
[1:15:48] women's rights are human rights
[1:15:49] and that we as a city will
[1:15:52] remain strong to defend the
[1:15:54] dignity and equity and that the
[1:15:55] boston city council hereby
[1:15:57] recognizes marches women's
[1:15:58] history month and reaffirms
[1:16:00] boston's commitment to
[1:16:01] advancing gender equity and
[1:16:03] protecting women's rights,
[1:16:04] particularly at a time when
[1:16:05] federal actions threaten long
[1:16:07] standing civil and human rights
[1:16:09] protection at the federal level
[1:16:09] .
[1:16:11] Do you still agree?
[1:16:13] And I know I spoke to you,
[1:16:15] michelle about this and as
[1:16:16] panelists I would like your
[1:16:16] opinion.
[1:16:18] Now do you agree that those are
[1:16:20] two separate resolutions that
[1:16:23] should have stayed on the
[1:16:25] agenda and voted both on at
[1:16:27] that hearing based on their
[1:16:30] content after kind of re going
[1:16:33] through what would constitute
[1:16:34] and it wasn't pulled you kept
[1:16:35] it on because you.
[1:16:35] Agreed that.
[1:16:38] >> do you still well when uh
[1:16:40] the the rule 15 issue I
[1:16:42] contacted you and uh but you
[1:16:44] and you did change the the the
[1:16:48] language so for me you know I
[1:16:49] reread it afterwards and
[1:16:51] determined that it wasn't an
[1:16:52] exact duplicate and.
[1:16:54] >> just to be clear to the
[1:16:56] public to when we change the
[1:16:57] language it's before anyone
[1:16:58] even sees it and my colleagues
[1:16:58] either.
[1:17:00] So no one had seen the original
[1:17:02] even though the original was
[1:17:03] pretty similar and I did think
[1:17:05] that that one which was a
[1:17:06] strong important resolution and
[1:17:08] I was wholeheartedly supporting
[1:17:11] that one also that I did make a
[1:17:12] few tweaks just to be very
[1:17:14] clear, but mine was in no way
[1:17:16] referencing federal or other
[1:17:16] issues.
[1:17:16] >> right.
[1:17:18] You know well, you know.
[1:17:19] >> just to be safe like you
[1:17:19] said working.
[1:17:21] Collegiately together to just
[1:17:22] make sure that there.
[1:17:23] Was no well this is another
[1:17:25] example of, you know, uh,
[1:17:28] calling the counselor and
[1:17:29] describing what the duplication
[1:17:31] is and then the counselor
[1:17:34] agreed to, you know, uh, edit
[1:17:35] her original version.
[1:17:38] So once that happens and the
[1:17:40] the determination of the right.
[1:17:43] But then at the meeting it was
[1:17:43] then.
[1:17:44] thrown out.
[1:17:45] >> yeah.
[1:17:47] So and I also remember going to
[1:17:50] you michelle it was upsetting
[1:17:53] after lots of other things like
[1:17:55] blocking um late files which I
[1:17:57] do think I need a few more
[1:17:59] seconds to address that because
[1:18:01] if we do have a deadline
[1:18:03] of friday a floor so much does
[1:18:04] happen on friday night
[1:18:05] saturday, sunday, monday I know
[1:18:07] I've spoken at length with you
[1:18:08] about that michelle that yes we
[1:18:09] should get in the habit
[1:18:11] of things that can get in as
[1:18:12] early as they can.
[1:18:14] We should get them in but if
[1:18:16] we're putting a friday deadline
[1:18:18] then there will be more late
[1:18:19] files because lots of important
[1:18:20] things do come up.
[1:18:22] Over the weekend that will need
[1:18:23] to be on the agenda.
[1:18:26] But at that hearing at that
[1:18:28] meeting also when we talk about
[1:18:30] what are our supports and
[1:18:33] abilities in the time there was
[1:18:35] the council attorneys were not
[1:18:36] in the chamber.
[1:18:37] Do you remember that
[1:18:37] conversation michelle?
[1:18:39] And when I asked for a recess
[1:18:40] it was denied.
[1:18:42] Then it was pushed and then
[1:18:43] colleagues voted to just shoot
[1:18:44] it down.
[1:18:47] I did say well if we're not
[1:18:48] referring to the clerk and
[1:18:49] using the rule that says he has
[1:18:51] the final power and I didn't
[1:18:52] agree with the PRESIDENT, I
[1:18:54] didn't have access to what I
[1:18:56] read and if you could just
[1:18:58] speak through what the
[1:19:00] council attorney during the
[1:19:01] council meeting support and
[1:19:03] role is just so that we're
[1:19:03] clear.
[1:19:03] Yeah.
[1:19:04] what that is for us.
[1:19:05] No definitely.
[1:19:07] And you know, um I did.
[1:19:09] You know.
[1:19:10] >> we've talked about this
[1:19:11] multiple times and I appreciate
[1:19:12] you having brought that to
[1:19:14] me and I hope it's noticeable
[1:19:16] that we have been absolutely
[1:19:17] making sure to have more
[1:19:18] coverage in the chamber during
[1:19:19] meetings for that exact reason.
[1:19:21] Um, so that if councilors have
[1:19:24] a question during the meeting
[1:19:26] that's on procedure or anything
[1:19:27] else, it doesn't necessarily
[1:19:29] have to be something that they
[1:19:30] have to bring up as a point
[1:19:31] of order point of information
[1:19:31] or you know.
[1:19:33] A question that they raise to
[1:19:35] the PRESIDENT Or to the clerk
[1:19:36] through a formal channel.
[1:19:38] They can come to us on the side
[1:19:40] and we can help advise what the
[1:19:41] best next steps would be to
[1:19:43] address whatever the procedural
[1:19:43] issue is.
[1:19:45] Thank you.
[1:19:47] >> my time is up again but not
[1:19:48] thank you.
[1:19:50] Thank you, councilor murphy.
[1:19:50] Okay sir.
[1:19:51] Sorry you he's one.
[1:19:54] We're both irish.
[1:19:57] >> this is not culinary.
[1:19:59] Councilor flynn.
[1:20:00] Off you go.
[1:20:01] Um, that.
[1:20:03] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[1:20:06] Again want to say thank you to
[1:20:08] alex and to michelle?
[1:20:09] I had an opportunity to.
[1:20:11] >> work with both for.
[1:20:13] Almost nine years and both.
[1:20:17] Outstanding and dedicated city
[1:20:17] employees.
[1:20:21] What I what I wanted to
[1:20:22] highlight I.
[1:20:23] Referenced it somewhat.
[1:20:24] >> in my comments.
[1:20:25] And questioning.
[1:20:28] I do think we are able to move
[1:20:28] .
[1:20:30] Forward on this issue.
[1:20:31] In other issues.
[1:20:34] I do think it's about
[1:20:35] respecting each other.
[1:20:37] And listening to each other.
[1:20:40] And understanding.
[1:20:42] Each other or compromising
[1:20:45] especially when you disagree
[1:20:48] with the person on policy but
[1:20:50] you know the person is right.
[1:20:51] In terms of the role.
[1:20:53] I think that's.
[1:20:55] Where we have to be.
[1:20:58] More understanding, more
[1:21:00] considerate, more compassionate
[1:21:01] is.
[1:21:04] Try to be a better colleague.
[1:21:05] I think if we're a better
[1:21:07] colleague we can make
[1:21:07] significant.
[1:21:10] Progress in roles and I think
[1:21:11] at times.
[1:21:13] Without being.
[1:21:14] Negative because I because I
[1:21:15] don't want to be negative
[1:21:16] during this meeting.
[1:21:16] But I.
[1:21:18] Do think if we work together
[1:21:21] and respect each other we can
[1:21:22] accomplish a lot.
[1:21:24] We can follow the rules.
[1:21:24] We can.
[1:21:27] Do the people's work.
[1:21:33] But even when we disagree and
[1:21:34] we respect each other we still
[1:21:35] can get.
[1:21:36] >> a lot of work done.
[1:21:38] And that's really my point.
[1:21:41] As it relates to the city
[1:21:41] council.
[1:21:42] Rules is.
[1:21:44] Ensuring that city councils
[1:21:47] treat each other cordially,
[1:21:48] respectfully.
[1:21:52] Understand each other and
[1:21:52] sometimes.
[1:21:55] including myself withholding.
[1:21:55] Comments about.
[1:21:58] Colleagues that you do want to
[1:21:59] criticize.
[1:22:02] But sometimes the criticism
[1:22:02] doesn't.
[1:22:04] Help the.
[1:22:07] Body and it doesn't help the
[1:22:07] city.
[1:22:08] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[1:22:10] Thank you, councilor flynn.
[1:22:12] Um councilor fitzgerald.
[1:22:14] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[1:22:15] No, I don't have any further
[1:22:16] questions here to learn.
[1:22:17] Thank you so much and again
[1:22:18] thank you.
[1:22:19] Um the staff thank.
[1:22:20] You, councilor weber.
[1:22:21] Yeah.
[1:22:23] >> uh, thank you very much.
[1:22:25] Uh, I'm just happy to, uh,
[1:22:26] attend and hear what my
[1:22:27] colleagues have to say and
[1:22:29] thank you for the panel for
[1:22:30] their thoughtful answers.
[1:22:30] Thanks, chair.
[1:22:31] Thank you.
[1:22:34] Um, councilor cope everett.
[1:22:36] Yeah, I did have an additional
[1:22:39] question regarding the
[1:22:39] decision.
[1:22:42] And so when you make a decision
[1:22:45] ,mr clare, it is somewhere
[1:22:47] where you record that decision
[1:22:50] or document that decision just
[1:22:51] in case it's something that
[1:22:54] comes up in the future.
[1:22:57] Well, uh, actually.
[1:22:57] >> I.
[1:22:59] Do we I created a folder this.
[1:23:01] >> year for 2026 because.
[1:23:01] >> we've.
[1:23:04] Had you know, 16 rule 15 items.
[1:23:08] So now we keep I keep uh the
[1:23:11] dockets in this folder to to go
[1:23:12] back and review them if I need
[1:23:13] them in and to.
[1:23:17] To document the reason why or
[1:23:19] provide an explanation
[1:23:19] of writing.
[1:23:22] So if you need to go back or if
[1:23:24] a councilor had a question
[1:23:26] about why uh, you made a
[1:23:27] certain decision.
[1:23:31] Uh, we keep copies of each
[1:23:34] docket and um, they do make
[1:23:36] like little notes and saying,
[1:23:37] you know why I thought it was a
[1:23:40] duplicate and then I just put
[1:23:41] them in these by in this folder
[1:23:43] and I keep them for reference.
[1:23:43] Good.
[1:23:44] >> because I think that's
[1:23:44] important.
[1:23:45] Yeah.
[1:23:46] It's like the congressional
[1:23:48] record you can go back to the
[1:23:49] congressional record and you
[1:23:53] look back 50 years of why a
[1:23:55] congress person did something
[1:23:55] on why.
[1:23:58] So I just think it's helpful in
[1:24:00] the future, especially when you
[1:24:02] have similar dockets that MAY
[1:24:03] come up in the future.
[1:24:05] You can at least go back and
[1:24:07] look at the explanation and the
[1:24:09] decision and provide that to
[1:24:11] the council of what you did in
[1:24:14] the past, the sitting
[1:24:14] precedent, MR. Clerk.
[1:24:15] Yes we are.
[1:24:16] Thank you.
[1:24:19] >> thank you.
[1:24:21] Um.
[1:24:27] >> I think one of the issues
[1:24:30] um, that you mentioned is that
[1:24:34] if you're faced with um, uh, a
[1:24:37] rule 15 docket uh, that you
[1:24:39] can't you often approach the
[1:24:43] sponsor and you ask them to uh,
[1:24:44] give them the opportunity.
[1:24:45] The member is offered an
[1:24:47] amendment um, uh, an
[1:24:49] opportunity to make an
[1:24:50] amendment to the docket so that
[1:24:52] it doesn't, uh, trigger a rule
[1:24:52] 15.
[1:24:55] Um, and you said we've had 16
[1:24:58] rule 15 issues this this year
[1:24:58] so far.
[1:25:00] So that's two but two a month.
[1:25:02] So like averaging two a month.
[1:25:05] Um, how many of those were
[1:25:07] successfully resolved by, you
[1:25:10] know, making an amendment or um
[1:25:11] the person withdrew the docket
[1:25:11] or.
[1:25:14] A majority of them uh, were
[1:25:16] they were amended the language
[1:25:17] was changed to make it not to
[1:25:18] be a duplicate.
[1:25:20] Uh, there were a few occasions
[1:25:22] where the docket was withdrawn
[1:25:24] and uh, the counselor would
[1:25:27] contact the the council of the
[1:25:29] original the first filing to
[1:25:30] become a sponsor to that.
[1:25:33] Um and I know I myself was a
[1:25:35] little 15 uh, no, I had a
[1:25:38] docket and my colleague um had
[1:25:40] she she came in five minutes
[1:25:41] after I did with the same
[1:25:42] pretty much a very similar
[1:25:44] docket and we we.
[1:25:46] Amended we we amended the
[1:25:47] language and we did a joint
[1:25:48] filing in that case.
[1:25:51] So there are remedies available
[1:25:52] to colleagues if we work
[1:25:55] collaboratively together to
[1:25:55] address this and.
[1:25:56] >> all of this happens before
[1:25:57] we even.
[1:25:59] Publish the uh the agenda.
[1:25:59] Yeah.
[1:26:00] >> um.
[1:26:02] >> I really want to thank you
[1:26:03] for your diligence.
[1:26:06] I appreciate I have a lot
[1:26:07] of concern about the fact that
[1:26:09] you are faced with a lot
[1:26:10] of dockets sometimes we have a
[1:26:11] huge number of dockets that you
[1:26:14] have to review and put into um
[1:26:18] ,the system a bit of between
[1:26:23] 10 and 12 on a uh a um monday.
[1:26:26] Um I think one thing that I
[1:26:28] will ask my colleagues to
[1:26:30] consider is that if there are
[1:26:31] dockets that are ready to go on
[1:26:33] thursday or friday that to at
[1:26:35] least send them over to your
[1:26:37] office so that, uh, your staff
[1:26:39] can start uh, reviewing and
[1:26:41] entering those dockets 830 on a
[1:26:42] on a monday.
[1:26:45] Uh, I think if you get all
[1:26:46] of our docket set at quarter
[1:26:48] of ten on a on a on a monday
[1:26:50] and expect everything to be
[1:26:52] done for 12 is an unreasonable
[1:26:53] expectation.
[1:26:56] So I think it's on us as as
[1:26:57] counselors uh, and to be
[1:26:59] respectful of your, uh, office
[1:27:01] to try and, uh if we have
[1:27:03] dockets ready to go then let's
[1:27:04] let's get them going.
[1:27:06] Um, I know we did that during
[1:27:07] covid and that was an
[1:27:09] extraordinary moment in time.
[1:27:12] So um and also just given the
[1:27:14] sheer number of dockets like as
[1:27:17] you mentioned we are 1500 an
[1:27:20] idiot docket so far this year
[1:27:21] and only in AUGUST.
[1:27:24] Um, we've still got three four
[1:27:25] months to go.
[1:27:29] Um and we um it's a huge amount
[1:27:30] of work for your office and I
[1:27:31] appreciate that.
[1:27:31] Thank you.
[1:27:32] >> council.
[1:27:34] Um.
[1:27:35] >> last call.
[1:27:36] Uh, I just want to thank you
[1:27:37] both for your incredible work.
[1:27:39] Um, and just to offer you
[1:27:40] everyone, uh, closing
[1:27:42] statements, if any would like
[1:27:43] councilor murphy.
[1:27:43] Thank you.
[1:27:45] >> I just want to thank you for
[1:27:45] being.
[1:27:48] Here and talking through and
[1:27:50] answering some questions.
[1:27:51] I think flaherty is always
[1:27:51] important.
[1:27:54] i have always been a rule
[1:27:56] follower maybe to a fault.
[1:27:57] So I do think following the
[1:27:59] rules are important but as
[1:28:01] important I think is it has to
[1:28:02] be consistent and people have
[1:28:04] to feel as though the rules are
[1:28:05] being applied um.
[1:28:06] You know.
[1:28:07] >> consistently across the
[1:28:09] board despite personalities or
[1:28:10] any other thing.
[1:28:12] So that is many times the
[1:28:14] concerns I've had right if lay
[1:28:15] files are blocked and said
[1:28:17] because of a concern of open
[1:28:19] meeting law but then all of a
[1:28:20] sudden if it's not a certain
[1:28:21] person following them they're
[1:28:22] not block.
[1:28:23] So those concerns I guess no
[1:28:24] longer exist.
[1:28:25] So I do think.
[1:28:26] We do.
[1:28:28] Need to work together.
[1:28:29] But what you said proves that
[1:28:31] we already are because most of.
[1:28:35] These real 15 cases that you
[1:28:38] see are fixed before they ever
[1:28:39] make it to the agenda.
[1:28:40] The call is what fixes it
[1:28:40] right?
[1:28:41] And it's what I.
[1:28:42] Thought fixed mine in.
[1:28:44] My case in many times I've
[1:28:45] signed on with other colleagues
[1:28:47] also like hey we're both filing
[1:28:48] something, let's work together.
[1:28:50] All of that is happening behind
[1:28:51] the scenes so that number is
[1:28:53] high and thank you for the work
[1:28:53] you.
[1:28:56] Do in your office um to catch
[1:28:57] it.
[1:28:59] But I do want to be clear to
[1:29:00] the public in the body that
[1:29:02] nine times if not more out
[1:29:04] of ten we are addressing it and
[1:29:05] fixing it before it ever comes
[1:29:06] to the floor.
[1:29:08] so we are working together to
[1:29:09] make sure that we're not just
[1:29:10] bickering and we're not.
[1:29:12] And for me at least I can say
[1:29:14] I'm not filing things just to
[1:29:15] file them to me they're very
[1:29:17] important issues that need to
[1:29:19] be addressed and so looking
[1:29:22] forward to hopefully continuing
[1:29:24] to get consistency across the
[1:29:25] board.
[1:29:26] And thank you for being
[1:29:28] available to make some
[1:29:29] clarifications today.
[1:29:29] Thank you.
[1:29:31] Councilor flynn.
[1:29:34] >> thank you, MADAM Chair.
[1:29:35] >> thank you to the.
[1:29:36] City clerk.
[1:29:38] Thank you to the.
[1:29:40] City council staff director for
[1:29:41] the important.
[1:29:42] Work you were doing.
[1:29:44] For the city council and for
[1:29:46] the residents of boston.
[1:29:49] Let's continue as a body to
[1:29:51] work together, respect each
[1:29:54] other, communicate effectively
[1:29:54] with each other.
[1:29:55] And do the work of.
[1:29:56] >> the people.
[1:29:58] That's critical, especially
[1:30:00] during these challenging times
[1:30:00] .
[1:30:01] We all know that boston works.
[1:30:03] Best when we when we work
[1:30:03] together.
[1:30:04] Thank you, MADAM Chair.
[1:30:06] Thank you, councilor flynn.
[1:30:07] Councilor fitzgerald closing
[1:30:08] remarks.
[1:30:08] Thank you.
[1:30:10] Good.
[1:30:13] >> um, councilor weber closing
[1:30:13] remarks.
[1:30:14] Sure.
[1:30:15] >> uh, thank you very much.
[1:30:15] Yeah.
[1:30:17] I mean I feel like, uh you know
[1:30:18] ,again, thank you to the
[1:30:21] panelists and uh, I think
[1:30:23] issues around rule 15 and
[1:30:24] issues that we talked about
[1:30:25] today I think it's more
[1:30:28] indicative of issues on the
[1:30:30] council and with with
[1:30:32] councilors, uh, effectively
[1:30:33] working together.
[1:30:35] So I agree with my colleagues
[1:30:37] there, uh, that you know so I'd
[1:30:38] say it's more of this
[1:30:39] highlights more of that issue
[1:30:41] than any issues um, with the
[1:30:43] clerk's office or legal
[1:30:44] councilor or even the language
[1:30:45] of the rule.
[1:30:48] So again, I hope we use this as
[1:30:50] uh as a way to work better
[1:30:50] together.
[1:30:53] So thank you to I've just echo
[1:30:54] councilor flynn sentiment.
[1:30:54] Thank you.
[1:30:55] Thank you.
[1:30:56] Um.
[1:30:57] Councilor culpeper.
[1:30:59] Sounds like that organization
[1:31:00] went better together.
[1:31:01] Yeah.
[1:31:02] Uh, just a couple.
[1:31:06] Of comments and and you MAY
[1:31:08] want to respond and MAY not we
[1:31:09] try and have all of our
[1:31:13] filings, uh, prepared friday so
[1:31:15] I can review them with the
[1:31:17] start friday, but we MAY not
[1:31:18] file them friday.
[1:31:20] And my question is would you
[1:31:25] rather us file on friday and if
[1:31:26] monday morning I'll review them
[1:31:29] again monday morning and if we
[1:31:30] have amendments would you
[1:31:32] prefer that we pull that and
[1:31:36] file the and how the change or
[1:31:38] just leave it there and amend
[1:31:38] it.
[1:31:39] What's your preference.
[1:31:43] Uh well you know if you file
[1:31:45] something on friday then you
[1:31:45] want.
[1:31:47] To change it on monday that
[1:31:49] that creates more work too for
[1:31:49] us.
[1:31:52] But uh I mean it can be done.
[1:31:54] So would you rather we just
[1:31:56] wait and file.
[1:31:58] Until you have the final
[1:31:58] version?
[1:31:58] Yeah.
[1:32:01] >> and then, um, you can we can
[1:32:04] review it and then hopefully
[1:32:06] it'll be fine and okay if you
[1:32:07] want to substitute of course
[1:32:09] you can do that during the
[1:32:09] meeting as well.
[1:32:11] Right and and where we can
[1:32:14] we'll try and get them into you
[1:32:15] by friday because usually
[1:32:16] they're ready on friday.
[1:32:19] But you know that weekend you
[1:32:20] know going to the weekend
[1:32:21] thinking about that file and
[1:32:24] waking up monday morning that's
[1:32:26] fine thank you thank you MR.
[1:32:26] Thank you council.
[1:32:29] Thank you, councilor culpepper
[1:32:29] .
[1:32:32] Um I want to thank you both for
[1:32:32] being here today.
[1:32:34] I think this has been a very
[1:32:35] valuable and informative
[1:32:35] conversation.
[1:32:36] I want to thank my colleagues
[1:32:38] for participating in the
[1:32:38] conversation.
[1:32:42] Um, our goal as a as a body and
[1:32:46] as as a um staff and
[1:32:48] council and your trucks office
[1:32:50] is to have an efficient,
[1:32:53] well-run council and I
[1:32:54] appreciate all the great work
[1:32:54] you do.
[1:32:57] Um, I think we can make some
[1:32:58] tweaks and and encourage people
[1:32:59] to file if there's something
[1:33:00] ready to go when it's in good
[1:33:01] shape and it doesn't need
[1:33:03] changing, send it to your
[1:33:04] office in a timely way so that
[1:33:06] it doesn't get into the the the
[1:33:08] bottom the bottleneck on on
[1:33:11] monday mornings and uh I just
[1:33:12] want to encourage thank you for
[1:33:14] your professionalism and your
[1:33:16] daily commitment to helping us,
[1:33:19] uh, do our work for the people
[1:33:20] of boston every day.
[1:33:21] And thanks to my colleagues.
[1:33:22] Thank you.
[1:33:26] >> he might not realize it, but
[1:33:28] I take down notes of your
[1:33:31] prayers so that I take them
[1:33:33] with me when I leave here this
[1:33:33] council.
[1:33:35] So when I look at some of my
[1:33:37] files I've got certain portions
[1:33:39] of your prayers in those files.
[1:33:41] So thank you for those prayers
[1:33:41] .
[1:33:43] That's the other role of the
[1:33:44] clerk is to stand in for clergy
[1:33:46] when we don't have clergy and
[1:33:46] to set.
[1:33:47] >> the prayers to.
[1:33:49] >> set us to set a peaceful.
[1:33:51] And collaborative tone at the
[1:33:51] beginning of a meeting.
[1:33:52] So I thank you for that.
[1:33:53] MADAM PRESIDENT.
[1:33:55] MADAM PRESIDENT, if he uses
[1:33:56] that in his sermons is that
[1:33:57] plagiarism?
[1:33:57] Yes.
[1:33:59] >> I leave this up to that.
[1:34:01] Is that where you get your
[1:34:02] inspiration?
[1:34:02] Credit?
[1:34:03] >> yeah.
[1:34:05] >> oh come on.
[1:34:06] I give him credit I said
[1:34:07] before.
[1:34:09] Thank you everyone.
[1:34:11] This hearing on docket.
[1:34:13] 1475 is adjourned.