1 00:00:07,410 --> 00:00:19,590 For record keeping purposes, if you wish to make statement regarding any item on the agenda, please complete the form, located at the entrance or at the rear of the council chambers and please pause it with the planning and housing commission secretary. 2 00:00:20,510 --> 00:00:26,590 Welcome to tonight's planning and housing commission meeting. Commissioner Longwell will lead us in the pledge of allegiance. 3 00:00:51,070 --> 00:00:55,590 persons wishing to address the commission or requested to state their name for the record. 4 00:00:56,050 --> 00:00:58,790 This portion of the agenda is intended for public comment. 5 00:00:59,150 --> 00:01:03,350 State law prohibits the planning and has in commission from discussing or taking action on items 6 00:01:03,350 --> 00:01:04,630 not listed on the agenda. 7 00:01:05,190 --> 00:01:09,650 The planning has commissioned appreciates your cooperation in keeping your comments brief. 8 00:01:10,050 --> 00:01:12,550 Please observe a three minute limit to communications. 9 00:01:13,750 --> 00:01:18,950 Ms. Capia, did we receive any speaker cards or written comments from the public for items 10 00:01:18,950 --> 00:01:26,410 not on the agenda. No chair, Woody. All right, very good. Next we will consider the minutes 11 00:01:26,410 --> 00:01:32,800 from the planning and housing commission meeting of August 12th, 2024. Did we receive any 12 00:01:33,830 --> 00:01:40,210 speaker cards or comments from the public on the minutes? We did not. Have there any comments from 13 00:01:40,210 --> 00:01:48,130 the commission? All right, then do we have a motion? All motion for approval of the August 12 minutes. 14 00:01:49,050 --> 00:01:50,890 And then I will second 15 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,060 the meeting minutes are approved. 16 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:15,500 Next, we will turn our attention to public hearings, which are items that have been publicly 17 00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:20,060 advertised to review and consideration by the Planning and Housing Commission. 18 00:02:20,060 --> 00:02:30,620 And the first public hearing is for the 2020-003 application to request a variance from section 19 00:02:30,620 --> 00:02:40,180 17.060 and 17.28.070A of the coronavirus municipal code to reduce the minimum 20 00:02:40,180 --> 00:02:47,340 lot area requirement from 14,400 square feet to 10,125 square feet and the minimum lot with 21 00:02:47,340 --> 00:02:55,940 requirement from 95 to 75 feet for the property located at 1765 Bobbot Avenue in the R1 14.4 22 00:02:56,660 --> 00:03:04,940 single family residential zone. The applicant is Carlos Padilla from PFT properties and we do have 23 00:03:04,940 --> 00:03:21,280 Ms. Lopez here to present the item, but I was going to ask my commissioners, fellow commissioners, with, you know, other items that are of significant public importance, if, if commissioners are open to 24 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:27,380 tabling this item until a future meeting so we can get more attention to the other items. 25 00:03:34,730 --> 00:03:35,510 In that case. 26 00:03:35,510 --> 00:03:40,650 If I, I think we should hear the item. All right. And then we will proceed with the item. 27 00:03:41,710 --> 00:03:43,310 And then we'll hear from Ms. Lopez. 28 00:03:46,620 --> 00:03:49,560 Thank you, Chair Woody. Good evening, Chair. Members of the 29 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:57,260 Planning Commission. And of the staff and the audience tonight. The item before us is a request by 30 00:03:57,260 --> 00:03:59,380 Mr. Padilla for a variance. 31 00:04:04,100 --> 00:04:10,420 And the request is for variance from the sections of the coronavirus 32 00:04:10,420 --> 00:04:16,260 is precode pertaining to the R-1-14.4 zone. 33 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:28,020 More specifically, from Section 17.0, 0.0 and 0.070A for a reduction in the 34 00:04:28,020 --> 00:04:36,140 lot size of 14,400 square feet to 10,125 square feet and a reduction in the 35 00:04:36,140 --> 00:04:39,360 lot with from 90 feet to 75 feet. 36 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,740 This is a view of the locational map. 37 00:04:45,140 --> 00:04:46,820 The property is located south, 38 00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:49,240 approximately south of Foothill Parkway, 39 00:04:49,460 --> 00:04:51,400 an east of California Avenue. 40 00:04:52,100 --> 00:04:55,740 It is in the more rural area of the city. 41 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,860 And the existing property, as mentioned previously, 42 00:05:01,500 --> 00:05:04,900 currently measures 10,125 square feet. 43 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,940 It is surrounded by single-family residential 44 00:05:07,940 --> 00:05:17,220 to the south of the parcel, to the west of the parcel and there is vacant land to the 45 00:05:17,220 --> 00:05:18,400 north of the parcel. 46 00:05:22,540 --> 00:05:25,420 To give the plant commission a little bit of background information, 47 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:33,740 the property has an ER or state residential land use designation. The parcel was illegally created 48 00:05:33,740 --> 00:05:38,120 by Deeds back in 1926 by the original property owner, 49 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,360 the project or the parcel, in order 50 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:48,000 to legalize the property, does require a COC or a certificate of compliance, 51 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:50,600 and the 52 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:57,200 variance must be approved by the Plan Commission prior to the city approving the COC. 53 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:12,480 The existing parcel measure 75 feet wide by 135 feet deep and the applicant is proposing a single story, excuse me, a single family, two story home of approximately 1620 square feet. 54 00:06:15,980 --> 00:06:21,460 This is an exhibit of the lots that are adjacent to this particular parcel. 55 00:06:21,460 --> 00:06:25,520 that upper summary table on the right-hand corner 56 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,700 indicates the existing four parcels. 57 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,060 The parcel that's in the gray is the subject parcel. 58 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,380 And as we can see from a lot area, 59 00:06:35,660 --> 00:06:39,720 each of those four parcels measure 10,125 square feet. 60 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:43,740 It has an average depth of 135 feet 61 00:06:43,740 --> 00:06:46,380 and a width of 75 feet. 62 00:06:46,380 --> 00:06:56,480 So, the subject parcel is identical to the adjacent parcels in terms of the lot area, the lot width and the lot depth. 63 00:07:02,150 --> 00:07:06,330 This is a view of the APN or assessor parcel number map. 64 00:07:06,690 --> 00:07:12,150 This is obviously mapped prepared by the county assessor's office for tax purposes. 65 00:07:13,490 --> 00:07:19,350 The yellow areas or parcels show the 10,125 square foot lots. 66 00:07:20,010 --> 00:07:26,250 We see that the subject parcel is second from the corner of how in Bobbitt Avenue, there 67 00:07:26,250 --> 00:07:33,670 are numerous lots along House Street in Nelson Street that are reduced a lot or substandard 68 00:07:33,670 --> 00:07:38,890 legal lots that currently measure 6,750 square feet. 69 00:07:38,890 --> 00:07:47,890 on those particular lots, there has been recent new home construction, and so this particular 70 00:07:47,890 --> 00:07:54,430 granting of a variance would be very consistent with the adjacent parcels along Bobby Avenue 71 00:07:54,430 --> 00:07:57,130 as well as House Street and Nelson Street. 72 00:08:00,790 --> 00:08:03,790 And here's a view of Nelson Street and House Street, 73 00:08:03,850 --> 00:08:11,370 just south of Liberty Drive. These are the six parcels that were previously shown. They are approximately 74 00:08:11,370 --> 00:08:18,070 6,750 square feet each and they have recently received building permits for the construction 75 00:08:18,070 --> 00:08:20,230 of two story homes. 76 00:08:21,610 --> 00:08:26,450 The lots are also, again, there are substandard and size, so they have five foot side 77 00:08:26,450 --> 00:08:33,030 yard setbacks on each side and let's go to the next slide. 78 00:08:34,610 --> 00:08:37,390 This is a view looking onto the subject site. 79 00:08:37,390 --> 00:08:39,330 Again, it's currently it's a vacant property. 80 00:08:40,010 --> 00:08:43,350 There is a corner home that has the same 81 00:08:43,350 --> 00:08:46,390 white size 10,000, approximately, 82 00:08:46,550 --> 00:08:48,750 little over 10,000 square feet as well. 83 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,480 And looking at the California Environmental Quality Act, 84 00:08:55,900 --> 00:08:58,140 this project was deemed categorically exempt 85 00:08:58,140 --> 00:09:00,900 under the small class 3, 86 00:09:01,060 --> 00:09:06,200 a small construction structures. 87 00:09:07,020 --> 00:09:07,860 Next slide. 88 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:11,840 Staff has looked at the findings 89 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:18,580 that are applicable within the Corona Municipal Code for the granting of a variance and has made 90 00:09:18,580 --> 00:09:28,980 all of the positive findings for this variance to be granted. One of the findings that is 91 00:09:28,980 --> 00:09:34,920 very obvious is that this particular parcel has the same characteristics of other parcels 92 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:39,700 in the surrounding neighborhood or vicinity with exactly identical 93 00:09:39,700 --> 00:09:47,140 lot area as well as lot with and lot depths and the proposal of a single 94 00:09:47,140 --> 00:09:54,180 family home is it uses permitted in the R1-14 point for zone and therefore the 95 00:09:54,180 --> 00:09:58,640 variants will not have adverse impacts to the surrounding neighbors. 96 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:07,120 next slide. At this point in time, staff is making a favorable request or recommendation 97 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,620 that the planning and housing commission find the project exempt from the SQA requirements 98 00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:22,140 and adopt the resolution 2644 granting variance 2020-003. That concludes my presentation tonight. 99 00:10:26,110 --> 00:10:28,350 All right, thank you very much, Mr. Lopez. 100 00:10:29,490 --> 00:10:33,690 Commissioners and questions for staff regarding the sign-up. 101 00:10:37,740 --> 00:10:40,540 Do the other parcels that are adjacent to them? 102 00:10:40,780 --> 00:10:44,100 Do they already have variances, such as this, 103 00:10:44,340 --> 00:10:47,160 or are they considered illegal as well? 104 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:48,620 Was it our not built on? 105 00:10:49,420 --> 00:10:53,160 At this point in time, because there's already existing homes 106 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,120 on those properties, staff was not able to verify 107 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,940 if those properties were legally created or not. 108 00:11:02,060 --> 00:11:05,080 And will this be the time that this project comes forward, 109 00:11:05,420 --> 00:11:08,860 or will we see it again with variances for setbacks, et cetera? 110 00:11:09,580 --> 00:11:11,620 Yes, that's a good question. Thank you for asking that. 111 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,120 This property, if you look in your packet, it's exhibit four. 112 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,400 It's essentially the proposed site plan shows the outline of the home. 113 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,600 And to answer the question, the property is being designed 114 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:30,940 to comply with all the setback requirements and the high limitations and so forth. 115 00:11:31,820 --> 00:11:33,900 So it will not come back to the planning commission. 116 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,240 It's long while you asked three of my questions and thank you. 117 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:45,240 The only thing, what was the reason for the four years from the initial application, 118 00:11:45,460 --> 00:11:48,260 the variance to almost almost four years in November? 119 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,500 Is there any special circumstances there that we should be aware of? 120 00:11:52,500 --> 00:12:12,860 You know, when I started here with the city consulting, it was beginning of 2022, it was previously assigned a previous planner and I know that I believe the delay had to do with the legality of the parcel and the chain of the title reports and so forth. 121 00:12:13,580 --> 00:12:24,040 I know our development services team is here and might be able to shed a little bit more light as to the complexity of the certificate of compliance and that application. 122 00:12:28,940 --> 00:12:32,620 My only concern was that there's some odd, continuous, 123 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,060 accentuating circumstances, but doesn't sound like that was the issue. 124 00:12:36,700 --> 00:12:38,280 That's efficient, thank you. 125 00:12:41,260 --> 00:12:51,640 Yeah, I mean, I guess I'd like to hear a little more about that too, because I was kind of struck by the slow process of this particular application, 126 00:12:54,260 --> 00:13:07,660 you know, from the beginnings of it, and then even the letter submitted with the application from the applicant was two years old at this point. So I'm just kind of like to get a little more context on that. 127 00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:19,760 I can talk a little bit about the certificate of compliance review. 128 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,720 It takes some time to get all the information and do the review. 129 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,760 I can't remember if that led to any specific delays, 130 00:13:26,100 --> 00:13:28,200 but that was a pending item for a little while. 131 00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:33,780 But what we've got now, we've got all the information we need to understand the project and how to move forward. 132 00:13:36,250 --> 00:13:39,610 And so then there was mention about whether there were some legal questions, 133 00:13:40,630 --> 00:13:47,990 what can somebody is able to go into more detail about those questions and how they were subsequently resolved. 134 00:13:49,490 --> 00:14:07,150 Yeah, so there's two different things, there's the variance for the setback and then there's the legal lot issue which basically that just means that the land was subdivided without being in compliance with the subdivision map act and the local ordinances. 135 00:14:07,850 --> 00:14:14,150 So the solution to that is to grant them a certificate of compliance and they will merge the properties together. 136 00:14:14,890 --> 00:14:20,390 So we will end up at the end of the day with just as many lots as they would have been 137 00:14:20,390 --> 00:14:21,970 a lot to create in the first place. 138 00:14:28,540 --> 00:14:35,180 So I guess I'm not clear on that because if this predate, I mean, because the 139 00:14:35,180 --> 00:14:42,360 lots were split, I guess, in 1926, if I understood correctly and I'm not really, I'm sure 140 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:48,080 I know the details of how that was done and then recorded if it was not a legal 141 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:55,300 creation of the lots. There's two lots. One is the original lot that was created with the map. 142 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,660 I think that might be the 1926. 143 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:08,700 Another law, which is half of one of those original lots, I believe it was subdivided in the 50s or the 60s. 144 00:15:09,020 --> 00:15:19,680 So it was a little more recent that is just out of date with our requirements for doing it, doing a subdivision by deed, which is what occurred. 145 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:30,240 Okay. And then so there was a mention that there were other homes under construction, something 146 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:36,860 about verb building permits that were issued recently. And I know that, I mean, where 147 00:15:36,860 --> 00:15:41,400 were those homes that are now being built? Because in the picture actually in the exhibit, 148 00:15:41,620 --> 00:15:49,280 it looked like the lot immediately next to this one was under construction. So I mean, 149 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:55,240 there, you know, I don't believe that has come any of those lots came before the commission 150 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,840 in the last few years. So if do you have any of the history of the other lots? 151 00:16:00,260 --> 00:16:04,140 The one that's on the corner that looks like it's under construction, it's an older home 152 00:16:04,140 --> 00:16:09,020 that's being remodeled. So it looks like there might be, you know, I don't know, they're doing 153 00:16:09,020 --> 00:16:15,260 redoing or, you know, adding new stuff. Oh, I believe it was a wood siding previously if we can go back 154 00:16:15,260 --> 00:16:19,160 to the, let's see, we see. 155 00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:30,160 Yes, this song you're talking about, it's a corner. 156 00:16:31,740 --> 00:16:33,860 Yeah, that's an existing older home. 157 00:16:36,060 --> 00:16:38,700 So then the ones that you said were under construction 158 00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:42,880 with recent permits, were those on what house street? 159 00:16:43,060 --> 00:16:43,800 Mm-hmm. 160 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:44,280 Correct. 161 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,920 Yes, and those do look like there legal lots. 162 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,080 They don't have any dashes between them, 163 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:52,200 so. 164 00:16:52,540 --> 00:16:54,780 But those are also, those are legal lots. 165 00:16:54,780 --> 00:16:56,580 So this is how this came about. 166 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,040 We cannot issue a building permit if we know it was a legally created. 167 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,140 We somehow have to get it legally created. 168 00:17:02,740 --> 00:17:05,160 So what you see out there today, those were legal lots. 169 00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:09,520 This law, in particular, was created by deed due to its date. 170 00:17:09,660 --> 00:17:11,420 So we just have to correct it. 171 00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:13,660 We do a several certificate of compliance. 172 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:15,880 That is not subject to the review of this commission. 173 00:17:16,100 --> 00:17:17,980 It's actually done by a separate board. 174 00:17:18,740 --> 00:17:23,840 But because of the fact is, is that the zoning designation is our 114.4. 175 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:30,700 we have to approve a lot size that is less than 14,400 square feet. We have to come here 176 00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:34,940 and get a variance on that lot size. So they can continue to move forward. 177 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:40,780 Had the lot been legally created, regardless of the lot size, they would be allowed to move 178 00:17:40,780 --> 00:17:45,280 forward. So we're just trying to correct the fact that we're going to be signing a certificate of 179 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:50,180 compliance on a lot size that is less than the zoning minimum lot size requirement. 180 00:17:50,180 --> 00:17:51,220 So 181 00:17:53,360 --> 00:18:02,360 would that have been that what that didn't apply in the case of the other houses because you're saying those lots were create that is correct that is correct. 182 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:07,740 And so then in that case the zoning restrictions don't don't really apply. 183 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:17,440 That's correct because they were legally created if whatever the zoning designation is in terms of the minimum lot sizes not applicable because it's a legally created lot. 184 00:18:18,780 --> 00:18:24,540 Okay, and then do we know the history of the ownership of this I mean what's is the applicant the you know 185 00:18:24,540 --> 00:18:31,400 Was it in in the applicants, uh, you know family ever since the the lot was created in 1926 186 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:36,140 I don't believe so I believe that they've acquired it probably within the last 187 00:18:36,140 --> 00:18:41,940 Five or so years, but applicant is in the audience tonight and can help answer them 188 00:18:42,420 --> 00:18:42,780 question 189 00:18:42,780 --> 00:18:43,740 Okay, 190 00:18:49,230 --> 00:18:52,150 well, do we have other questions for staff from the commission? 191 00:18:55,330 --> 00:19:01,590 Then, I guess we will open the public hearing and do we have any speaker cards or written 192 00:19:01,590 --> 00:19:05,430 comments regarding this item, Ms. Capia? 193 00:19:08,660 --> 00:19:10,500 I do not have any. No chair would. 194 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:11,680 Okay. 195 00:19:13,780 --> 00:19:18,280 I do see someone in the audience who looks like they may want to speak. If you would 196 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,600 like to speak, you can come up to the front 197 00:19:29,020 --> 00:19:30,540 over to the middle. 198 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:38,600 No, there is a microphone 199 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:45,580 over their little father. Thank you. It's a new set up right here. Right in the center. There you go. 200 00:19:45,980 --> 00:19:53,640 And just please tell us who are. It's new to us too. Yeah I'm the home owner for at 1780 Bobbid Avenue. 201 00:19:54,840 --> 00:20:02,560 So you can see on the Bobbid Avenue all the houses are bigger lots. So it appears that this lot 202 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:10,300 is only half of the size of, you know, the other lots. And the comparison they're trying to compare 203 00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:20,460 is on the house street. So, actually, I don't think it confirmed with, you know, Bob is street. 204 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:27,220 That's first of all, by reducing the size and making a much smaller house, smaller lot 205 00:20:27,220 --> 00:20:35,460 with like smaller front-to-edge and also we notice on this lot you can search whether they have 206 00:20:35,460 --> 00:20:42,800 great increments. They have been lost of trucks dumping, there's or de-breeds, building de-breeds 207 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:51,120 and when we confront the driver and ask whether they have permits and they just run away. So I suspect 208 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:56,860 this might be the problem. The grading has been changed substantially, possibly without 209 00:20:57,220 --> 00:21:03,660 grading permits. And we've been noticing when they're dumping, there are no water spreading, 210 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:10,580 so that there's everywhere. So it's very bad for our children, for the house, you know, 211 00:21:10,580 --> 00:21:17,700 and the environment. So that's why I do have concerns of approving this, not, you know, 212 00:21:18,020 --> 00:21:24,660 be consistent with how this field is. And if this person can do this pretty much everybody 213 00:21:24,660 --> 00:21:29,980 concept divide, and it's probably not good for the overall 214 00:21:29,980 --> 00:21:33,460 religious state, for the street, et cetera. 215 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:39,980 And also, where are the homeowners who actually paid for two? 216 00:21:40,060 --> 00:21:44,440 Because with those vats, everybody is supposed to improve 217 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,320 the street in front of them. 218 00:21:46,620 --> 00:21:48,860 But their end up, nobody is doing that. 219 00:21:49,140 --> 00:21:52,360 So where are the only homeowners who actually improve the 220 00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:59,260 France and on both sides, so even though we are not reliable for that, so we got a full permit, 221 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:06,960 finalized it, and we noticed when they dump tons of, you know, birds, they turn around running 222 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:12,860 on the streets above, you know, in front of us, and it brings lots of dirt on the streets and 223 00:22:12,860 --> 00:22:16,200 actually, possibly, breaking, you know, the road. 224 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:30,720 So, that's also our concern, because inevitably they will be turning around on our side of the road, which we paid in a lot of money to do, getting city permitted, doing it right. 225 00:22:34,550 --> 00:22:48,270 There is no objection to the homeowner. It's just the concerns. Maybe the homeowner probably is not present, so maybe he or she doesn't know about the situation, but we are the neighbor at the one who was suffering. 226 00:22:50,930 --> 00:22:53,090 And I think that's about it. 227 00:22:53,090 --> 00:22:54,650 Any more questions from other people? 228 00:23:05,530 --> 00:23:06,430 I have her husbands. 229 00:23:07,570 --> 00:23:09,930 Well, basically another problem is a house tree. 230 00:23:10,150 --> 00:23:13,130 You know the house tree is only one land. 231 00:23:13,770 --> 00:23:14,590 It's very dangerous. 232 00:23:14,770 --> 00:23:16,970 The other side is a creep. 233 00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:25,630 So the house tree city never do anything for last 10 years. 234 00:23:26,290 --> 00:23:28,150 Bobby never do anything for 10 years. 235 00:23:28,150 --> 00:23:33,210 They made us to pay $50,000 to fix the road. 236 00:23:34,210 --> 00:23:40,430 And the city asked me, have an engineer to do the engineer from 237 00:23:40,430 --> 00:23:44,310 beginning the house street to the end of the house street. 238 00:23:45,130 --> 00:23:48,330 Just engineer someone engineer, I have been asking, 239 00:23:49,210 --> 00:23:51,350 cost me $50,000 for silver engineer. 240 00:23:51,350 --> 00:24:02,250 I have been what was CD with my guy because my guy is fixing the wrong freeway, for five years 241 00:24:02,250 --> 00:24:10,390 I finally get a proof just do my section, and even my section I only required to 242 00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:17,910 half my height to set the row, but nobody wants to do anything, right? So I have to do the 243 00:24:17,910 --> 00:24:26,990 side. So right now, if this is a proof, okay first, are they going to make a role 244 00:24:26,990 --> 00:24:33,730 better? Are City going to make a house street better? Because the house that she 245 00:24:33,730 --> 00:24:39,930 mentioned about that building, the house, see there for a couple years, at least three years. 246 00:24:40,930 --> 00:24:47,430 I don't know why, because I guess maybe the role is that they don't fit. If you're a 247 00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:53,310 you will drive over you see that. Another problem I want to speak out if you 248 00:24:53,310 --> 00:25:00,750 reduce this lot, okay, I am trying to buy a lot crossed by house. The four 249 00:25:00,750 --> 00:25:11,510 acre lot at the end of corner, I had been told that 14, 400, okay. If someone, by 250 00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:15,450 that that lot already, I know I can't talk about already, if you approve this 251 00:25:15,450 --> 00:25:24,650 house, are they going to build many houses there? For that four equal, I don't know. I don't think 252 00:25:24,650 --> 00:25:31,230 the house still, whatever this, because I spent 50,000 euros. I don't want this truck coming 253 00:25:31,230 --> 00:25:42,030 illegal dumping. They dumped, not just that lot. The next to me, her not a lot, is dumping 254 00:25:42,030 --> 00:25:51,090 construction, charge, dumping, many things, I have tech pictures, I sent to city and city 255 00:25:51,090 --> 00:25:59,150 firing company to start them to down. So, this is what I want to know. If city wanted 256 00:25:59,150 --> 00:26:03,670 to approve people to do this, I don't mind they built in the house, they do a great 257 00:26:03,670 --> 00:26:10,490 thing, they get for me, they do it correctly. But look, for the last 10 years, I'm the only 258 00:26:10,490 --> 00:26:19,790 house in the house street, Bobbi. My house is the only the my house of 259 00:26:19,790 --> 00:26:26,690 havekella. My house next to me is havekella. Okay. Around the corner 260 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:11,540 there's 261 00:28:05,530 --> 00:28:05,530 one 262 00:28:15,210 --> 00:28:16,690 Okay, good. 263 00:28:16,690 --> 00:28:17,170 Thank you. 264 00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:17,710 Thank you again. 265 00:28:17,930 --> 00:28:19,550 Thank you for your comments. 266 00:28:21,170 --> 00:28:27,370 Ms. Capita, do we have any other cards that looks like we have someone else maybe wanting to speak? 267 00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:37,730 And if those who spoke or planning to speak could also before they leave check in and just give a fill out a card for us. 268 00:28:37,730 --> 00:28:39,090 appreciate that. 269 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,380 Good evening council. My name is Kenneth Warfield. I'm sorry I didn't 270 00:28:45,380 --> 00:28:48,880 know about the cards that we had to fill out. But I live on that old house that sits 271 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:58,420 on the corner right next to this lot. And I'm trying to get like a permit to build like a 272 00:28:58,420 --> 00:29:04,520 patio cover and they said there's a 10 foot setback requirement for my property. So I don't mind 273 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:09,660 if you build something on it but is there going to be that 10 foot setback for this house also? 274 00:29:11,460 --> 00:29:16,980 And also, those three homes that you saw, or actually four homes you saw on the picture, 275 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:23,000 they kind of like stick out like a sore thumb because they don't really kind of conform to the 276 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,240 homes that are in the area. 277 00:29:26,780 --> 00:29:34,560 Also, there's that house that is new and has been sitting vacant for two, three years, 278 00:29:34,740 --> 00:29:36,600 and we're not sure what's going on with it. 279 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:43,640 Um, I know the fire marshals come by and had them clear out the weeds, you know, several times. 280 00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:47,520 Um, what else anything else? 281 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,040 Um, that's just my concern. 282 00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:58,740 It's just, if they're going to have to follow the setbacks that I have because I don't really want a house that's like sitting five feet from my house. 283 00:29:59,600 --> 00:29:59,900 So. 284 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:06,080 My house was built, actually in 1927, and it was moved to that spot in the late 50s. 285 00:30:07,340 --> 00:30:09,360 So, it's all like I've got. Thank you. 286 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,600 Just had a curiosity. Where was the original site that your house was? 287 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,600 I'm not sure. I guess everything was burnt, and I guess there was a big fire. 288 00:30:19,940 --> 00:30:22,000 Sometime in the 20s or 30s. 289 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,280 Okay. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. 290 00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:32,030 And then it's a, that's the last of the potential speakers. 291 00:30:32,490 --> 00:30:35,230 Do you have any other cards or any written comments from the public? 292 00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:36,350 I do not sure. 293 00:30:37,710 --> 00:30:43,110 So then without we will close the public hearing and we'll bring it back here for discussion 294 00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:44,570 among the commission. 295 00:30:46,450 --> 00:30:50,890 I'm just wondering if maybe we could hear Miss Lopez or other staff. 296 00:30:50,890 --> 00:31:06,170 I'm regarded the public comments about how the shared payment to improve the streets as part of the development and how that could impact both current residents in future, maybe what the timeline looks like for that. 297 00:31:06,850 --> 00:31:11,090 Yes, I will defer that question to the our development services team. 298 00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:21,810 Good evening, commissioners. The project is actually responsible to improve their 299 00:31:21,810 --> 00:31:27,590 half-worth plus 10 of fronting their lot. That will come in later with the grading plan 300 00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:33,450 at this time board just reviewing the variants. After the project goes through a certificate 301 00:31:33,450 --> 00:31:38,390 of compliance, they will be required to submit a grading plan and improve their plans. That 302 00:31:38,390 --> 00:31:43,450 will show the improvements for the street as well. And that's only for obviously this one 303 00:31:43,450 --> 00:31:50,530 parcel, and then we are, and then as each parcel gets developed, then each of those 10 foot. 304 00:31:50,570 --> 00:31:51,730 We'll be required to do that. 305 00:31:52,230 --> 00:31:58,410 Is there a point by percentage that says if half or 75 percent of the homes on that street 306 00:31:58,410 --> 00:32:04,570 are complete that the rest is done or does it have to go through all of the parcels before 307 00:32:04,570 --> 00:32:09,390 the streets improved? Is there a formula for that or? 308 00:32:09,390 --> 00:32:15,590 So, since this is not being processed as a builder subdivision, which you're normally used to, 309 00:32:15,790 --> 00:32:20,170 you have a builder that comes in, is going to build, you know, 25, 30 lots at one time. 310 00:32:20,390 --> 00:32:25,130 So, those street improvements are all done at one time. These are individual lots, 311 00:32:25,370 --> 00:32:29,550 so you have individual people going in their building custom homes. So, you're getting the 312 00:32:29,550 --> 00:32:33,930 improvements as each lot's developed. So, it's a little bit more piecemeal than what you're 313 00:32:33,930 --> 00:32:36,410 used to seeing when you have builder subdivisions. 314 00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:40,570 You only come and I have, I think, 315 00:32:40,570 --> 00:32:43,610 that it's appropriate to prove the variance, 316 00:32:43,970 --> 00:32:47,590 because it does allow this parcel to be developed 317 00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:51,110 and for home to be built and improvements of the street. 318 00:32:51,510 --> 00:32:53,630 I mean, it does sound like there's some compliance, 319 00:32:54,550 --> 00:32:57,030 construction compliance, and development issues 320 00:32:57,030 --> 00:32:59,410 that exist in the general area, and not this parcel, 321 00:32:59,830 --> 00:33:01,750 but just listening to the public feedback 322 00:33:03,090 --> 00:33:06,470 that staff may want to look into unrelated to this approval. 323 00:33:07,490 --> 00:33:13,370 And my mind, I think this variance is sensible to allow for development. 324 00:33:13,790 --> 00:33:15,250 I would approve that. 325 00:33:17,610 --> 00:33:22,530 And I would offer a motion to approve the variance V2003. 326 00:33:23,250 --> 00:33:23,650 I'll second. 327 00:33:25,690 --> 00:33:27,010 And then I'll just comment. 328 00:33:27,410 --> 00:33:29,510 I'm not in agreement with the fourth finding. 329 00:33:30,030 --> 00:33:31,950 So I'll be voting against 330 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,300 motion passes. 331 00:33:55,700 --> 00:34:00,200 Our next public hearing is for CUP 2020. 332 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:12,280 4-002. This is a conditional use permit for a 515,565 square foot fire station and a 944 square foot 333 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:19,940 apparatus building. On 1.71 acres located at 225 East Harrison Street in the fire zone station 334 00:34:19,940 --> 00:34:27,480 and commercial retail district of the North Main Street specific plan. Applicant is Tracy Martin 335 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:36,260 from City Public Works Department, and then we have assistant planner, Mr. Daldi, here to present the item. 336 00:34:37,720 --> 00:34:38,140 Thank you, Chair. 337 00:34:39,220 --> 00:34:39,960 Good evening, Chair. 338 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,040 Members of the Planning and Housing Commission. 339 00:34:42,340 --> 00:34:44,440 Brendan Daldi, assistant planner, please represent the item. 340 00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:50,360 Before you tonight, for conditional use permit record number 2024-002. 341 00:34:50,700 --> 00:34:55,560 It's going to be a fire station number two rebuild project located at 225 East Harrison Street. 342 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:04,520 Tonight, we have the request for our conditional use permit consisting of a multi-phase rebuild. 343 00:35:04,860 --> 00:35:10,540 A primary fire station building will be approximately 15,565 square feet. 344 00:35:11,340 --> 00:35:17,260 And then a fire apparatus building located north on the project site at 9,44 square feet. 345 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,040 And then it's going to be located on two different parcels. 346 00:35:20,220 --> 00:35:26,120 I'll get into that a little bit later throughout the presentation, but it's located on a 1.7-1-acre site. 347 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:35,080 I wanted to give the planning commission a bit of background on the project, so the existing 348 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,300 fire station right now, that's out there. It's 11,600 square feet and serves as a 349 00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:43,600 logistical hub for the community in the surrounding area. There's originally constructed 350 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:51,700 back in 1961 and then further expanded in 1996. The proposed expansion will be proposed on 351 00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:59,320 two different parcels. The adjacent 3.49 acre site is a commercial zone property and 352 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,500 That's at 3-9-1 North Main Street. 353 00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:05,280 Additionally, it's going to be expanded and intended 354 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,800 to accommodate for the anticipated future growth 355 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,600 that the fire station anticipates in the next two to five 356 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,660 years, and that'll include additional staffing 357 00:36:14,660 --> 00:36:16,500 needs and equipment for the site. 358 00:36:18,620 --> 00:36:22,520 Furthermore, as more background, city council reviewed 359 00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:26,120 various different elevations back on December 6, 360 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,500 of 2023, that was done by an administrative report from our fire chief. 361 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,920 They voted unanimously to endorse option C, which is going to be located on the elevations 362 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,000 that we'll get into later on, 363 00:36:43,570 --> 00:36:44,290 timeline and funding. 364 00:36:45,050 --> 00:36:49,310 So majority of the funding for the project will be from the American Rescue Plan Act, also 365 00:36:49,310 --> 00:36:55,310 known as ARPA, so as they act done back during the COVID years, and so we're going to be using 366 00:36:55,310 --> 00:37:01,210 majority of those funds for this project about 10 million to be exact, so federally 367 00:37:01,210 --> 00:37:07,810 funds need to be encumbered by December 31st of 2024, that'll be quarter four of this year. 368 00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:13,290 Quarter one, 2025, we'll see phase one commenced, it's about two months. 369 00:37:13,450 --> 00:37:18,530 That'll be the construction of all the areas up to the north of the parcel or project site, 370 00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:24,910 and that'll be the construction apparatus building the temporary living quarters and some parking areas for the time being. 371 00:37:24,910 --> 00:37:29,690 Quarter two of 2025 will include phase two, approximately 18 months. 372 00:37:29,810 --> 00:37:33,010 I don't include the demolition of the existing fire station building in grading, 373 00:37:33,710 --> 00:37:37,470 and then in quarter four of 2026 we'll see the completion of the building. 374 00:37:37,530 --> 00:37:42,350 That'll be the construction of the primary building to the south portion of the parcel or project site 375 00:37:42,930 --> 00:37:46,510 and all the other landscaping, fencing, access, et cetera. 376 00:37:47,070 --> 00:37:54,890 Another timeline note that I want to do include is that these ARPA funds need to be fully 377 00:37:54,890 --> 00:37:58,330 six to seven, but 31st, they would need to be fully expanded. 378 00:38:01,730 --> 00:38:08,070 Location on zoning map, so it's located at 225 East Harrison Street, it's located just 379 00:38:08,070 --> 00:38:11,850 off the north eastern corner of North Main Street in East Harrison Street. 380 00:38:12,570 --> 00:38:15,930 It's also located within the North Main specific plan. 381 00:38:16,570 --> 00:38:21,270 And so indicated here, I wanted to highlight two different areas, the yellow, highlight 382 00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:27,370 is the 1.71 project site on the northern portion, the off-red portion. 383 00:38:27,370 --> 00:38:33,850 that you see up there is 0.67 acres of the project site that's also owned by Rexco, that 384 00:38:33,850 --> 00:38:39,370 parcel actually expands over to that 391 north main address I was alluding to earlier, so 385 00:38:39,370 --> 00:38:45,610 it is a deed, it's a 30 year deed, I'm sorry, a 30 year lease-owned option at the end, 386 00:38:47,110 --> 00:38:51,570 and then located to the south is that fire station zone. So it is two different zones, 387 00:38:51,590 --> 00:38:55,890 it's fire station to the south, and then the commercial zoning district to the north. 388 00:38:55,890 --> 00:39:03,450 So it's going to be a little unique in that aspect, and I can get a little bit more in the explanation on those allow users and development standards here. 389 00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:11,810 So, for our municipal code, the fire stations allowed in all zones with the approval of a conditional use permit, that's why we're here today. 390 00:39:12,990 --> 00:39:20,830 In addition to that, the design would be consistent with what the most applicable development standards would be in, in this case it's a community serving facility. 391 00:39:20,830 --> 00:39:25,910 So, C3 general commercial zone is what the development centers we compared this project to. 392 00:39:27,090 --> 00:39:31,470 It's also unique in a sense that there's no parking requirement for fire stations. 393 00:39:31,550 --> 00:39:37,030 It is silent and our municipal code and so that goes at the discretion of the fire chief, 394 00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:43,030 based on the needs of the site and the anticipated staffing that's going to be there. 395 00:39:43,890 --> 00:39:48,030 I also wanted to note right now just for the record that there's a 22 parking space, 396 00:39:48,030 --> 00:39:52,290 call out in the staff report that number should have been 35. So I just wanted to clean that up. 397 00:39:52,490 --> 00:39:54,670 There's 35 existing spaces on the site. 398 00:39:57,580 --> 00:39:59,560 Next we have landscaping. 399 00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:03,560 Approximately 19% of the property is going to be landscaped. 400 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:07,840 I don't equate to a 14,367 square feet. 401 00:40:08,420 --> 00:40:14,640 Project will also include landscaping of 24 to 36 in box trees and then shrubs. 402 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,500 Just provided to soften the massing of the building. 403 00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:28,060 And those trees and shrubs will be located throughout the duration of the site on the project boundary and the front yard just to again soften up that massing of the building to the front. 404 00:40:30,970 --> 00:40:31,610 Moving forward. 405 00:40:32,430 --> 00:40:36,830 Break down the elevations and site plan and phases. So starting with phase one. 406 00:40:37,170 --> 00:40:40,850 This will be on the northern portion of the Rex cone property to the north. 407 00:40:41,370 --> 00:40:43,770 We'll start off with the apparatus building. 408 00:40:43,770 --> 00:40:52,050 About 9,44 square feet and we'll also include a temporary living quarters for the time being that will be 2,304 square feet. 409 00:40:52,250 --> 00:40:58,770 That temporary living quarters is just for temporary purpose of the construction of the fire station to the south. 410 00:40:59,230 --> 00:41:03,130 So you will see that be removed and face three's completion. 411 00:41:03,710 --> 00:41:06,490 And until the right we have our apparatus building floor plan. 412 00:41:06,490 --> 00:41:29,630 This is just going to be used to how's a couple extra reserve engines, a parade engine, an off-road vehicle also for their search and rescue vehicles I believe, and then that building's storage area is going to be about 7,484 the vehicles and then the remaining square footage will just be for various PPE storage and and just other storage space. 413 00:41:31,300 --> 00:41:39,820 Moving forward with phase two, phase two will include the construction or the grading and 414 00:41:39,820 --> 00:41:44,160 demo of the fire station to the south there, so you'll see that kind of moving forward. 415 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:49,680 In addition to that, in that time being the operations on the north, we'll have a temporary 416 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,540 axis that'll run through Rex goes property to the west, so that'll be indicated there and 417 00:41:54,540 --> 00:41:57,300 you'll also see that go away in the next slide in phase three. 418 00:41:59,310 --> 00:42:04,250 Phase three will include the complete buildout, that'll include landscaping walls, fences, 419 00:42:04,250 --> 00:42:06,870 is trash and closures, et cetera. 420 00:42:07,050 --> 00:42:08,490 I don't include the apparatus building 421 00:42:08,490 --> 00:42:10,470 to the north portion of the project site. 422 00:42:11,130 --> 00:42:13,010 The fire station to the south, 423 00:42:13,770 --> 00:42:17,510 the two permanent primary access points off of Harrison 424 00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:20,030 straight indicated lower on the left and right 425 00:42:20,030 --> 00:42:22,030 of the project site's plan. 426 00:42:22,530 --> 00:42:24,550 And then the temporary living quarters up 427 00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:26,030 on the north eastern corner of the site 428 00:42:26,030 --> 00:42:27,010 will also be removed. 429 00:42:27,110 --> 00:42:29,370 And this would be your completed anticipation 430 00:42:29,370 --> 00:42:32,350 of quarter four, 20, 26. 431 00:42:35,980 --> 00:42:39,220 here are elevations and renderings. 432 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,660 These elevations and renderings are consistent with 433 00:42:45,660 --> 00:42:52,380 what city council had selected back in December 6th of 2023. This was the option C recommendation 434 00:42:52,380 --> 00:42:57,500 at the time. They went for the traditional fire station look which will include your traditional 435 00:42:57,500 --> 00:43:04,200 brick veneer tile roofing and then off-white and gray plaster accent walls. On the top here 436 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,640 you have the south elevation. This is what it's going to look like from East Harris in the street 437 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:13,900 looking at the project site and the fire station. The second one there will be the North 438 00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:18,400 Elevation. That will be more of the internal look of it from essentially where the 439 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,560 apparatus building will be looking down towards Harrison. So this will be the back side of that 440 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:31,060 building. And then the east side elevation will be where the commercial business park offices are 441 00:43:31,060 --> 00:43:36,060 located on the right side of the fire station. It didn't include the west side. That one's 442 00:43:36,060 --> 00:43:41,400 be pretty screened and there's not too much on that west elevation that would pop out. 443 00:43:41,980 --> 00:43:44,100 There's a lot of vegetation and trees on Rex Cohen. 444 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:49,040 The other adjacent public site that will provide adequate screening for that one. 445 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:57,780 Additionally, this will be the elevations for the apparatus building located on the northern portion of the site. 446 00:43:57,900 --> 00:44:02,080 They're proposing a standing seam at a roof brick veneer and then painted metal walls. 447 00:44:02,500 --> 00:44:07,660 It'll be consistent with what the primary fire station's color scheme is today. 448 00:44:07,660 --> 00:44:15,420 So we'll ensure that compliance at the building submittal, but just to kind of give the commission a brief look over of what we're going to be looking at moving forward. 449 00:44:20,170 --> 00:44:24,050 And recommendation. So staff's recommendation is that the planning and housing commission. 450 00:44:24,670 --> 00:44:27,850 Find the project exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act. 451 00:44:27,850 --> 00:44:37,990 to SQL Guidelines section 15332 and adopt resolution number 2646, granting CUP 2024-002 based 452 00:44:37,990 --> 00:44:40,690 on the findings contained in staff report conditions of approval. 453 00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:43,350 With that, thank you. 454 00:44:43,650 --> 00:44:47,190 Myself and the rest of staff are available for any questions you would have. 455 00:44:48,170 --> 00:44:48,410 All right. 456 00:44:48,570 --> 00:44:49,750 Thank you, Mr. Doldi. 457 00:44:49,750 --> 00:44:55,950 So yes, let's start with Commissioners questions for staff. 458 00:45:04,590 --> 00:45:12,590 I guess my question is a little bit about the timeline and the three different phases of the project. 459 00:45:13,970 --> 00:45:25,610 And I don't know if planning or the fire department would be the best people to speak on it. 460 00:45:25,610 --> 00:45:33,350 But because we have the phase two is when the current fire station is being torn down and replaced. 461 00:45:35,410 --> 00:45:50,020 And so I guess what will there be impacts to service and how will that be adjusted for? 462 00:45:52,430 --> 00:45:53,670 That may be a question. 463 00:45:53,810 --> 00:45:55,810 We need to ask the fire team. 464 00:45:55,910 --> 00:46:00,410 I don't know necessarily what staff they need to have allocated for that site. 465 00:46:00,410 --> 00:46:14,090 I'd like to say that the temporary living quarters that they have in the current set up, they'll have that phase two transitioning into phase three will be able to accommodate the services for the surrounding community, but just to confirm when the applicant comes up, they can probably further expand on that. 466 00:46:18,620 --> 00:46:26,840 Even chair and commissioners, that is correct. That is the exact reason of the temporary housings there. So there is no impact to service delivery in that immediate area. 467 00:46:27,540 --> 00:46:33,580 And then where we're all, you know, all the large equipment being, you know, when the station is demolished. 468 00:46:33,580 --> 00:46:39,280 So that's exactly why the outbuilding is being built simultaneously as a temporary housing. 469 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:45,320 So all the apparatus will move into that metal outbuilding in conjunction with the temporary housing. 470 00:46:45,420 --> 00:46:49,760 So they will respond out of those two buildings while the demolition takes place. 471 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:56,300 And then after and maybe maybe Mr. Daldy covered this and I just didn't quite take it all in. 472 00:46:56,300 --> 00:47:03,240 but then when the the new station is completed then what will the primary use of that 473 00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:09,640 apparatus building be it it'll be for primarily specialty resources as well as relief apparatus 474 00:47:10,140 --> 00:47:15,140 so so the biggest significant impact is our urban search and rescue resources right of 475 00:47:15,140 --> 00:47:20,980 there are swiff on a rescue team are use our assets and those in tail a lot of 476 00:47:20,980 --> 00:47:25,860 rolling stock if you will and then additionally will have relief apparatus in there as well so 477 00:47:26,300 --> 00:47:32,180 our aerial trucks which you've seen around town are very large. One of those will be stored in there as well. 478 00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:39,460 Okay, great. Thank you for for answering those questions. Any other questions for the fire department? 479 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:49,620 All right, thank you. And then I guess I guess I had a question kind of going back to planning 480 00:47:49,620 --> 00:47:51,000 on this. 481 00:47:56,830 --> 00:47:59,190 And now it's escaping my mind. 482 00:48:04,550 --> 00:48:07,330 So so then we're tonight we're just considering 483 00:48:07,330 --> 00:48:15,590 a CUP and I mean will there be other parts of this project that come before the commission 484 00:48:15,590 --> 00:48:21,390 later or is that all you know what's the procedure with with the rest of the project? 485 00:48:29,230 --> 00:48:33,730 No so this this is the only role that the commission will play is the approval that conditional 486 00:48:33,730 --> 00:48:43,490 use permit and that is it. Because then the the buildings that are going there conform with 487 00:48:43,490 --> 00:48:50,670 with everything, all those you know zoning and land uses. Okay perfect. And then I guess I was hoping 488 00:48:50,670 --> 00:48:58,610 you could explain a little more about that. A joining land you said the 391 north main like which 489 00:48:58,610 --> 00:49:07,090 It's not entirely clear to me which area that is and and specifically what you were saying it was going to be used for here. 490 00:49:07,430 --> 00:49:12,730 Sure, if I could get the power point back up, I'd like to go back to the location on zoning map. 491 00:49:19,780 --> 00:49:25,700 Okay, so if you look here, the yellow highlighted portion. 492 00:49:26,940 --> 00:49:31,640 That box there is 1.71 acres. That includes the entirety of the project site. 493 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:42,480 If you see in between the dark red and then that lighter pink light within that yellow highlighted area that's approximately 0.67 acres. 494 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:49,780 And so that 0.67 acres belongs to the adjacent property owner that's outlined in green there. 495 00:49:50,020 --> 00:49:56,860 So that 0.67 acres portion is a lease buy option that Rexco and the city have in place for 30 years. 496 00:49:56,860 --> 00:50:02,880 And so we're going to be utilizing that portion of the property, although it's not city owned property currently. 497 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,240 It'll be underneath a lease agreement for the time being. 498 00:50:08,580 --> 00:50:16,160 So with that being said, that green highlighted portion is actually a part of a larger parcel owned by Rexco. 499 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:20,160 And we're only occupying the 0.67 acres of that green highlighted area. 500 00:50:21,340 --> 00:50:50,040 Okay, that helps so yeah, it's the office building there and but then the parcel kind of has a jigsaw shape and the back part is is what we're currently using a storage right now and then that will be a long-term lease and do you know has it is it and I know that the staff report said there was an option to purchase that at some point but is there I'm just curious the advantage of not. 501 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,880 purchasing it now and potentially, you know, having that long lease. 502 00:50:57,820 --> 00:51:04,660 We explored some of those options with Rex Code or negotiations, and we thought that this was the best way to navigate. 503 00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:14,220 We do believe that it's best interest of the city to own the parcel, just for any future expansion or anything that needs to be done. 504 00:51:14,220 --> 00:51:14,840 So. 505 00:51:18,550 --> 00:51:31,650 And so then it is entirely up to the city down the road, the option. It's not like the city would have to, you know, get some sort of secondary approval from. 506 00:51:31,650 --> 00:51:39,310 Right. So it's already built into the terms of the lease. We do have an option agreement that's been recorded with that. So there's no, you know, 507 00:51:39,310 --> 00:51:44,050 the state and what could happen, and we do have the option after the first 10 years to purchase the property. 508 00:51:45,170 --> 00:51:46,490 Okay, good, thank you. 509 00:51:51,500 --> 00:51:56,000 All right, any further questions for staff before we open the hearing? 510 00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,020 All right, then we will open the public hearing. 511 00:52:01,460 --> 00:52:06,560 And do we have a speaker card's miscapia or any written comments from the public? 512 00:52:08,100 --> 00:52:09,060 We do not share. 513 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:10,920 Okay. 514 00:52:13,660 --> 00:52:20,320 And then it sounds like there's no need to hear from the applicant, which is the city we've 515 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:27,340 already gotten that part clear and cleared up so then I guess at this point I will close the 516 00:52:27,340 --> 00:52:32,200 public hearing and we will let the commission make comments and make a motion. 517 00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:40,680 I just, my, my comment is I've been following this process, I think it's at least two years that 518 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,940 the city has been working to develop this new fire station. 519 00:52:44,900 --> 00:52:47,560 I think public safety is critical and important. 520 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:56,370 I recall the recsco agreement back when there was a land swap with recsco, which we 521 00:52:56,370 --> 00:53:01,830 part of so it's great to see it finally coming to this fruition and also a plan to make 522 00:53:01,830 --> 00:53:09,870 sure that it's paid for and completed by 2026 so that it can be built with federal funds. 523 00:53:10,750 --> 00:53:18,850 So who doesn't like a fire station and I think this is a great use of the land and I believe 524 00:53:18,850 --> 00:53:20,690 that the CUP wants approval. 525 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:31,720 Okay, yeah. I'll just chime in. I, yeah, it's great. I know there's a lot of, a lot of time, 526 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:37,020 a lot of discussion to try to find the best plan for the city going forward and this definitely 527 00:53:37,020 --> 00:53:46,220 looks like a great, a great resolution to that. So, you know, I'll just compliment the fire department 528 00:53:46,220 --> 00:53:50,660 and planning and every public works, everybody else who has involved in that. I'm glad to hear 529 00:53:50,660 --> 00:53:57,860 that it sounds like all the details and eventualities have been considered and worked out. 530 00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:02,820 And yeah, I'm happy to support this and let's get it built. 531 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,040 I'll make a motion then to approve this CUP. 532 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:07,800 Oh, second. 533 00:54:29,380 --> 00:54:30,600 All right, motion passes. 534 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:43,780 Next, we have a HDB 2023-0001, a density bonus housing agreement application for 35 single 535 00:54:43,780 --> 00:54:49,300 family residential units proposed for the east side of Guards and Avenue approximately 536 00:54:49,300 --> 00:54:57,100 530 feet south of Santana Way. The applicant here is Warmington residential. 537 00:54:59,120 --> 00:54:59,720 This item 538 00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:08,780 is related to the following items on the agenda, item number five for TTM-38495, tentative 539 00:55:08,780 --> 00:55:16,100 track map application to subdivide 9.33 acres into 35 single family residential lots at 540 00:55:16,100 --> 00:55:25,040 that location and item six, PPE-2023-009, a precise plan application covering the site plan 541 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:30,180 architecture, walls, and fencing, landscaping, and other features associated with the project. 542 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:40,040 Since the three agenda items are related, staff will provide a presentation covering all three aspects. 543 00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:51,360 Commission will then ask questions regarding each item separately, at least to the best of our abilities and then act on each item separately. 544 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:59,260 So, with that being said, I will turn it over once again to Ms. Lopez our consulting planner. 545 00:56:01,970 --> 00:56:09,110 Thank you, Chair Woody. Okay, as you mentioned, Chair Woody mentioned this item is for 546 00:56:09,110 --> 00:56:12,550 John items four, five and six of tonight's 547 00:56:13,270 --> 00:56:14,330 final commission agenda. 548 00:56:17,070 --> 00:56:20,390 The applicant is an audience tonight and this is 549 00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:21,470 Wormington residential. 550 00:56:21,850 --> 00:56:24,290 Wormington residential is requesting 551 00:56:25,290 --> 00:56:28,870 entitlements for an affordable housing density bonus 552 00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:33,970 agreement with the city of corona for 35 single family homes. 553 00:56:35,470 --> 00:56:38,330 The applicant's also requesting a tentative track map to 554 00:56:38,330 --> 00:56:48,170 divide the 9.33 acre parcel into 35 single-family residential lots, and then finally the last 555 00:56:48,170 --> 00:56:53,410 application is for a precise plan for the review of the site plan architecture landscaping 556 00:56:53,410 --> 00:56:55,850 and other development features of the project. 557 00:56:58,990 --> 00:57:04,450 This is a view of the current 9.33 acre parcel, 558 00:57:04,450 --> 00:57:07,170 which is currently vacant at this time. 559 00:57:07,630 --> 00:57:10,390 The parcel has a dual zone. 560 00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:13,690 It's split in dual zone with the front, 561 00:57:14,030 --> 00:57:16,710 20, 25% of the property. 562 00:57:17,070 --> 00:57:21,510 Fronting on to Garrett's and Avenue being an R1-20. 563 00:57:22,270 --> 00:57:26,590 Zone and the remaining 70, 75% of the rear portion of the parcel. 564 00:57:27,290 --> 00:57:29,930 Being an R1-14.4 zone. 565 00:57:29,930 --> 00:57:44,990 The R120 requires minimum 20,000 square foot lots and the R114.4 requires a minimum 14,400 square foot lots per the city's zoning code. 566 00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:58,430 The property is rounded to the north by another minimum 14,400 square foot parcel, which actually it is approximately four to five acres to the north. 567 00:57:59,570 --> 00:58:06,790 The parcels to the west of this particular vacant property is an R1A zone. 568 00:58:07,470 --> 00:58:10,810 They are a little over one acre parcels. 569 00:58:11,450 --> 00:58:19,130 The parcels to the south of this particular property are zoned R1-20, 570 00:58:19,470 --> 00:58:25,450 which require minimum 20,000 square feet and they're approximately half acre in size. 571 00:58:25,450 --> 00:58:37,630 The parcels to the immediate east of this property are zoned our 1, 7.2 which require a minimum of 7,200 square foot lots. 572 00:58:38,350 --> 00:58:42,930 So the property is surrounded by single family residential on all sides. 573 00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:53,600 So this map shows the split zone as we just identified and the previous slide. 574 00:58:53,600 --> 00:59:00,620 the parcel is 9.33 acres. It's currently vacant. It was formally used for agricultural purposes. 575 00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:06,860 The current zoning, as mentioned again, is R120 and R114.4. 576 00:59:07,540 --> 00:59:13,680 The parcel has a general plan, a land use designation of ER, which is in the state residential. 577 00:59:14,940 --> 00:59:18,400 And that permits one to three dwelling units per acre. 578 00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,680 the parcels also located within South Corona, 579 00:59:21,820 --> 00:59:25,280 community facilities plan, within state residential 580 00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:29,260 land use, and that has a more strict, strict, 581 00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:35,360 or stringent land use density of up to not to exceed 582 00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,540 1.47, dwelling units per acre. 583 00:59:40,020 --> 00:59:41,980 The state density bonus law, which 584 00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,180 has been enacted by the California State Legislature 585 00:59:47,180 --> 00:59:55,280 under government code 65915, essentially is a state-mandated law, which allows developers 586 00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:59,980 of eligible housing projects to receive an increased density and order. 587 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:06,900 For other benefits by right to help a developer build the housing project at the density that the developer 588 01:00:06,900 --> 01:00:15,180 seeks. The project, this particular project qualifies as a project under the state density bonus law 589 01:00:15,180 --> 01:00:21,660 because a project has agreed to sell to the single family homes to very low income households. 590 01:00:23,460 --> 01:00:31,100 Looking at the state density bonus law, the zoning essentially, even though the zoning 591 01:00:31,100 --> 01:00:38,300 has a limitation or has a minimum lot size in this case 20,000 square feet and 14,400 square 592 01:00:38,300 --> 01:00:45,120 feet under the state density bonus law, the applicant can actually take the highest range 593 01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:51,960 of the General Plan Languys range, in this case, 3-0 units per acre. 594 01:00:53,300 --> 01:00:59,840 So the applicant has admitted an application to provide two of the units to very low income 595 01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:07,700 households, and that under state law allows the applicant to have 28 units in addition 596 01:01:07,700 --> 01:01:16,100 And because the applicant is providing a 22, approximately 22.5 increase or a 2 affordable 597 01:01:16,100 --> 01:01:23,180 units, they are allowed by the state density bonus law, a 22.5% increase in density 598 01:01:23,180 --> 01:01:25,640 or an additional 7 units. 599 01:01:26,700 --> 01:01:33,240 And so therefore, the applicant or this particular project proposes 35 volume units. 600 01:01:35,220 --> 01:01:45,400 I wanted to note that approximately nine of the single-family homes are going to be located within 601 01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:52,390 R120 zone and the remaining single-family homes will be in the 14.4 zone. 602 01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,020 It's approximately 26 is the balance. 603 01:01:57,620 --> 01:02:05,080 Again, under state density bonus law, the applicant does not have to apply for a change of zone as well. 604 01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:11,820 As previously required prior to state density bonus law, 605 01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:20,080 the Plan Commission is also asked to look at the tentative track map or approve the tentative track map. 606 01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:34,100 The tentative track map proposes 35 numbered lots for the single-family residential purposes and five lettered lots, which essentially are for the private street, the water quality basin and landscape lots. 607 01:02:34,100 --> 01:02:59,180 The lots range in area from 7,350 square feet up to 19,674 square feet, the five parcels that are located along the southern portion of the map are essentially ranging from approximately 15,600 square feet to the 19,600 and 74 square feet. 608 01:02:59,180 --> 01:03:28,720 These parcels are located essentially, but the half acre parcels located to the south of the, of this particular property of interior parcels are going to range approximately 7350 to approximately 8650 square feet, 8,600 and 50 square feet and the parcel essentially or the project proposes an interior street that takes access from Garrett's an avenue. 609 01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,180 And this is shown as a lot A. 610 01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:38,020 The street will essentially be approximately 36 feet in width. 611 01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,340 It will allow for one side street parking. 612 01:03:41,580 --> 01:03:45,880 It has an overall right away of 46 feet as well. 613 01:03:49,180 --> 01:03:52,960 This is view of the site plan that's being proposed. 614 01:03:54,680 --> 01:04:00,900 The five lots that are located to the south of the map or the site plan will be all 615 01:04:00,900 --> 01:04:08,760 consisting of one story homes, the remaining interior parcels, which are essentially 30 616 01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:14,960 single family lots, and those will consist of two story homes. There is a water detention 617 01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:23,160 basin, a lot B, which is the very north west corner of this particular site plan, and there is 618 01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:29,200 proposed homeowners association that will maintain the private street, the basin, and common areas. 619 01:04:31,220 --> 01:04:36,040 There's three proposed plans for this particular project. 620 01:04:37,180 --> 01:04:40,980 This is a view of the first and second floor of plan one, 621 01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:45,380 which is essentially four bedroom three and a half baths. 622 01:04:45,580 --> 01:04:48,280 Approximately 32, 31 square feet. 623 01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:50,140 It includes a multi-gen suite, 624 01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:52,720 which has interior access. 625 01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,220 Essentially it's kind of like a grandmother's 626 01:04:56,220 --> 01:05:05,280 or, you know, an added suite for the residents, it's not an ADU because it does not provide permanent cooking facilities. 627 01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:13,140 This is a view of Plan 2, the first and second floors. 628 01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:23,360 This plan proposes five bedrooms, four and a half baths at 34 or 65 square feet, also includes a multi-gen suite on the first floor. 629 01:05:25,250 --> 01:05:30,290 And then plan three is the single story or the one story plan. 630 01:05:30,770 --> 01:05:35,470 This is the biggest of the three plans at 3,901 square feet. 631 01:05:36,010 --> 01:05:42,810 With five bedrooms, four and a half baths includes a den with an option of a multi-gen suite. 632 01:05:44,550 --> 01:05:52,210 And all the plans do feature a minimum two car garages with storage areas. 633 01:05:52,210 --> 01:05:55,170 This particular plant-three features a three-car garage. 634 01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:05,320 The applicant is proposing three distinct architectural styles, a modern prairie, a cottage, and a farmhouse, 635 01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:12,840 and these are essentially going to feature shutters along the exterior, 636 01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:22,200 what-plank sighting, exterior details, elevations, as well as in-set windows. 637 01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:32,380 This is a view of the landscape plan approximately 17.5% of the interior of the project will be landscape. 638 01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:39,920 The landscape is required to meet the city of Corona's landscape design guidelines for residential homes. 639 01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:47,720 I also want to note that the elevations also meet the city's residential design guidelines. 640 01:06:49,020 --> 01:06:53,300 the public right away improvements that are proposed will be along 641 01:06:53,300 --> 01:06:57,520 Guarants in Avenue. They will continue the public improvements that are currently 642 01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:03,800 located to the south of this particular property. They will include sidewalk 643 01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:10,800 interior sidewalk landscape adjacent curb or landscape adjacent sidewalk. 644 01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:23,020 And the interior street essentially will be constructed for access to each of the individual homes as well. 645 01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:32,900 The applicant is proposing a perimeter split face six foot high wall, a long entire perimeter of the project site. 646 01:07:33,900 --> 01:07:38,280 Because the project is located within South Corona facilities plan. 647 01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:44,440 they are required to have a village to South Carolina theme wall, which includes a brick 648 01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,680 cap and stucco CMU wall along Garrett's in Avenue. 649 01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:57,920 The project will also feature two monument entry signs into the development and they will 650 01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:04,480 also have masonry walls throughout the interior of the lots or the parcels and they will 651 01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:11,020 also have their proposed six-foot high pedestrian gates to all the backyards. 652 01:08:15,190 --> 01:08:21,170 As mentioned previously under state density bonus law, in the California Housing Accountability Act, 653 01:08:22,810 --> 01:08:27,790 the state mandates allows developers to receive waivers from certain development standards 654 01:08:27,790 --> 01:08:33,070 or essentially unlimited waivers from the development standards within the coronavirus 655 01:08:33,070 --> 01:08:39,710 municipal code as long as they're proposing affordable housing units in this particular case 656 01:08:39,710 --> 01:08:47,770 applicant proposes to a very low or affordable housing units proposed to very low income households 657 01:08:48,590 --> 01:08:55,950 as a result of that the the per state density bonus law the applicant is eligible for 658 01:08:55,950 --> 01:09:00,670 waivers and this and essentially the way state laws written it's unlimited waivers 659 01:09:00,670 --> 01:09:14,090 So long as the city can essentially state that there is no preponderance of evidence to deny the waivers. 660 01:09:15,260 --> 01:09:23,890 A density bonus agreement is required with the city, per the Corona's Municipal Code, as well as per state law. 661 01:09:23,890 --> 01:09:41,110 and the affordability restriction on the two homes would be for 45 years, and so there will be two units that will be affordable and the remaining 33 homes will be market rate homes. 662 01:09:41,110 --> 01:09:50,610 And the app against is seeking several waivers from the Toronto Municipal Code development standards to build the project. 663 01:09:54,550 --> 01:10:10,630 Some of the waivers that are being sought and are included in your packet in the density bonus agreement include reduced lot area for nine of the. 664 01:10:10,630 --> 01:10:18,790 lots within the 20,000 square foot areas, so they are proposed at 15,546 to approximately 665 01:10:18,790 --> 01:10:33,300 1976, 74 square feet within the R114.4 zone, the lawns are proposed at 7,352,862 square feet, 666 01:10:34,310 --> 01:10:39,750 a reduction in lot with of 100 feet from 100 feet to 70 to 75 feet 667 01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:49,610 for most of the lots within the two zones, particularly in the R1-14.4 zone, 668 01:10:51,630 --> 01:10:51,650 and 669 01:10:51,650 --> 01:10:59,870 90 feet from the R1-14.4 to 70 to 80 feet, reduced setbacks. 670 01:11:00,470 --> 01:11:04,770 The code requires in both zones, a minimum front yard setback of 25 feet. 671 01:11:04,770 --> 01:11:17,210 The applicant is proposing 15 feet for most of the lots, as well as reduction in two of the corner yard setbacks. 672 01:11:18,970 --> 01:11:26,910 And from essentially the yard setbacks are required at 10 feet on one side and 5 feet on the other. 673 01:11:27,290 --> 01:11:34,750 And the applicant proposes a reduction of 5 feet for one of the side yards and an increase of 10 and more feet on the other. 674 01:11:34,750 --> 01:11:35,950 as well. 675 01:11:38,110 --> 01:11:45,950 The applicant is also requesting an increase in lock coverage from 30% for two story homes 676 01:11:45,950 --> 01:11:49,690 to approximately 35%. 677 01:11:53,080 --> 01:12:00,600 The applicant has provided a justification for the waivers being sought and that's also 678 01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:02,520 in the Planning Commission's packet. 679 01:12:03,540 --> 01:12:08,640 Essentially, the applicant is stating that the current zoning standards prevent the 680 01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:15,660 the housing project, the density, the density proposed is necessary to balance the construction 681 01:12:16,540 --> 01:12:23,020 costs, current zone standards make the cost of the project unaffordable and under state 682 01:12:23,020 --> 01:12:28,780 density bonus law. As mentioned previously, it does permit unlimited waivers when the 683 01:12:28,780 --> 01:12:33,540 projects offer a component of affordability in their units. 684 01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:37,720 Under state law, the city 685 01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:41,020 The state law has made it very clear that the city has to provide a 686 01:12:41,020 --> 01:12:44,300 preponderance of evidence to be able to deny the waivers. 687 01:12:45,660 --> 01:12:49,880 Staff has looked through the project, looked at the proposed 688 01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:56,400 development, the roads, access, setbacks, and so forth. 689 01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:00,320 And the city, the various city departments, including fire, 690 01:13:00,700 --> 01:13:06,060 engineering, as well as planning, have determined that there are no 691 01:13:06,060 --> 01:13:14,160 adverse impacts to the project is proposed, in that there is adequate accessibility, there is 692 01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:17,640 adequate connection to water sewer utilities, 693 01:13:19,700 --> 01:13:23,080 and the fire department has reviewed the project 694 01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:31,080 and has essentially agreed that the roadway, the private roadway, does provide adequate 695 01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:39,370 access for fire out access to each of the units under the California Environmental Quality Act, 696 01:13:39,630 --> 01:13:44,290 a mitigated negative declaration was prepared for the project, and it is also included in your 697 01:13:44,290 --> 01:13:44,650 packet. 698 01:13:47,650 --> 01:13:55,510 At this point in time, staff has analyzed both the Corona Municipal Code and more importantly 699 01:13:55,510 --> 01:14:02,830 the state density bonus law which essentially the plan commission is aware that the city 700 01:14:04,130 --> 01:14:11,410 essentially is you know kind of subjected to these new laws, these new housing accountability 701 01:14:11,410 --> 01:14:20,910 acts and so forth and so based on on that information staff is recommending that the planning 702 01:14:20,910 --> 01:14:26,770 housing commission adopt the mitigated negative declaration and approval of the 703 01:14:26,770 --> 01:14:33,350 affordable density bonus entitlement as well as the 10 of the FRAC map to the city council 704 01:14:33,350 --> 01:14:37,830 based on the findings containing the staff port and the conditions of approval and that the 705 01:14:37,830 --> 01:14:44,450 planning and housing commission adopt resolution number 2643 granting the precise plan for this project 706 01:14:44,450 --> 01:14:49,430 also based on the findings containing the staff report and the conditions of approval and that 707 01:14:49,430 --> 01:14:54,190 concludes my presentation. I do understand that the applicant is an audience tonight to 708 01:14:54,190 --> 01:14:57,050 help answer any questions that the commission may have. 709 01:15:00,850 --> 01:15:22,210 Okay, thank you, Ms. Lopez. Very thorough report there. And then I guess so, commission, we will start with questions for staff, as much as possible dealing with the housing density bonus application. 710 01:15:23,940 --> 01:15:27,500 Miss Lopez, thank you, it was a lot of information. 711 01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:33,420 Could we start with the low-income calculation method? 712 01:15:34,440 --> 01:15:41,100 So understanding that this proposal is to provide only two low-income units out of the 35. 713 01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:48,440 How is that minimum and how does the calculation work that we get to two units? 714 01:15:54,200 --> 01:16:02,900 Okay, per the state density bonus law, the calculation essentially the applicant has proposed 715 01:16:02,900 --> 01:16:09,680 two very affordable units and under state density bonus law there is essentially a formula 716 01:16:10,620 --> 01:16:19,900 that essentially states that based on their proposal of two affordable units, it equates to 22.5% 717 01:16:19,900 --> 01:16:25,160 of an increase, and that is a formula that's already established by state law. 718 01:16:25,660 --> 01:16:34,640 Is the applicant we're proposing a greater number of units, it would allow for a higher density of the bonus units. 719 01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:50,690 So in this particular case, the 22.5% of what's being proposed for affordability allows a seven units essentially above the 28 that's permitted 720 01:16:50,690 --> 01:16:53,630 for the General Plan land use maximum. 721 01:16:55,390 --> 01:17:05,510 So to dig a bit further, so to get to, if they chose to do one low-income unit, the ratio of 22.5 would be less. 722 01:17:06,030 --> 01:17:13,470 Is there a scale that says there's a minimum number of low-income units that need to be provided for? 723 01:17:13,830 --> 01:17:16,850 I'm just curious how they got to two units out of the 35. 724 01:17:22,090 --> 01:17:30,510 I believe it is a requirement to have a minimum of two in order to get that density bonus. 725 01:17:39,410 --> 01:17:41,150 Sorry, I'm just kind of going through this year. 726 01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:56,160 Actually, they could have had a 5% total, which would have allowed them a density bonus of 20%. 727 01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:06,180 But I believe that may have equated to one unit, it would have dropped their density, of course. 728 01:18:07,940 --> 01:18:12,620 But I think the applicant can help explain that a little bit better than I can. 729 01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:15,600 Okay, we can defer to them on that. 730 01:18:15,660 --> 01:18:28,820 And then further to that is their language in the SDBL that discusses the ratio of what classifies as low-income versus the rest of the unit. 731 01:18:28,820 --> 01:18:30,760 that are in with that same development. 732 01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:35,280 So in this case we have two low-income housing units 733 01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:40,220 amongst very large estate size, multi-layered and dollar homes. 734 01:18:40,660 --> 01:18:45,120 And I'm wondering what language in the SDBL speaks to that? 735 01:18:45,300 --> 01:18:46,980 And I just want to clarify, it's not low-income, 736 01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:48,000 it's very low-income. 737 01:18:48,180 --> 01:18:48,600 Yeah, low-income. 738 01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:51,380 Yes, that's correct. 739 01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:56,420 So is there any language in the state law that talks 740 01:18:56,420 --> 01:19:00,140 about that disparity of types of units within the same development? 741 01:19:00,940 --> 01:19:11,020 Yes, it is based off of the households median or household in this particular case, it's 742 01:19:11,020 --> 01:19:17,680 very low income household, and so they are qualifying residents based on the requirements 743 01:19:18,420 --> 01:19:26,140 pursuant to the state density bonus law, which essentially if I'm not mistaken, it's 744 01:19:26,140 --> 01:19:30,720 of 50% to 70% of the area median income of the county. 745 01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:40,740 And so, as the applicant had explained to us to Ms. Coleta and I, it's, once they have 746 01:19:40,740 --> 01:19:47,320 that formula, they essentially put it in their model calculation and that essentially generates 747 01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:52,620 a maximum for sale of those two particular homes. 748 01:19:52,620 --> 01:19:56,160 And I think he'd be able to explain that a little bit better. 749 01:19:56,600 --> 01:20:05,560 Yeah, I guess what I'm trying to understand is the ratio of low-income versus the balance 750 01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:12,560 of the homes that exist within the development, specifically if there's any language in this 751 01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:17,420 STBL that states what should be part of that development. 752 01:20:17,420 --> 01:20:33,720 If yes or no, and I understand it's a complicated law, but I'm very curious as to how that could exist with low-income mixed within clearly not low-income balance of development. 753 01:20:33,740 --> 01:20:41,420 So the law does not state bad, you know, it doesn't go into looking at each specific project and saying, 754 01:20:41,420 --> 01:20:46,040 If you have a project of market rate units that you think are going to go for a certain price, 755 01:20:46,340 --> 01:20:50,780 think you're limited to this kind of affordability level, it's really up to the developer 756 01:20:50,780 --> 01:20:55,160 to decide which level of affordability they want to apply. 757 01:20:55,400 --> 01:21:00,020 And in this case, the applicant is applying the very low income category. 758 01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:07,180 So it's going to be their responsibility on how they are going to sell those two units. 759 01:21:07,180 --> 01:21:14,380 They've done this before, so I do, I'm sure we will hear from them and they can explain this process. 760 01:21:15,100 --> 01:21:21,760 If at the end of it all, if they cannot sell these two units, they will then sell to a non-profit, 761 01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:26,200 who will then likely have to rent them out, and that is another option. 762 01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:29,280 But this is how the law is written. 763 01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:39,900 So, based on the 6% that they have chosen to use according to the law, they get that 22.5% density bonus increase. 764 01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:41,740 So that is how the formula works. 765 01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:42,100 Yeah. 766 01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:46,060 So, 6% 6.35 and you get 1.8. 767 01:21:46,260 --> 01:21:46,860 That's right. 768 01:21:46,860 --> 01:21:47,300 That's good. 769 01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:47,860 Yes. 770 01:21:50,100 --> 01:21:53,900 One other question, and we may have to defer to the applicant, but we can help here. 771 01:21:53,900 --> 01:21:59,840 the calculation method for the low-income house housing units. 772 01:22:00,500 --> 01:22:03,980 Is that described within the state law? 773 01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:09,560 Or is that method of how you're going to sell a home, 774 01:22:09,740 --> 01:22:13,000 which there's actually the two low-income homes, 775 01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:17,800 are the same floor plans that exist on the balance of the project? 776 01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:26,860 And so as such, does the law describe how that low-income homeowner is able to purchase 777 01:22:26,860 --> 01:22:35,400 this home and does it specifically describe for the 45 years, how that method is going 778 01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:35,740 to work? 779 01:22:35,980 --> 01:22:42,100 Again, it's where the developer is going to have to incentivize it. 780 01:22:42,100 --> 01:22:44,840 That is where they are trying to fill in the gap. 781 01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:56,500 So whether they are going to be seeking funding, or are they making up that loss by building the additional market rate units. 782 01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:03,680 So it's really being incentivized by them in order to sell it at a lower market value. 783 01:23:03,900 --> 01:23:07,600 So that's what's going on. But yes, the units will look identical. 784 01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:19,940 So I would really like to have them come up and explain it since they're in the industry but this is how this is how this is going to work on a foresell because it is a little bit different that are for rent unit, which is what we're familiar with. 785 01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:22,520 Okay, so we can defer that for the applicant. 786 01:23:24,500 --> 01:23:30,760 I have several other questions but I'll defer to the commission and then we can move through the applicant as well. 787 01:23:34,130 --> 01:23:36,410 All of my questions are in line with Greg's questions. 788 01:23:37,530 --> 01:23:44,150 Yeah, as our mind, so I really wanted to understand a lot more detail about the low-income 789 01:23:44,150 --> 01:23:55,830 units and the calculations and the process of those units going to very low-income households 790 01:23:55,830 --> 01:23:59,530 and what that looks like for the duration of the agreement. 791 01:23:59,530 --> 01:24:06,390 So, yeah, that's, I guess, at this point it would probably make sense to open the public 792 01:24:06,390 --> 01:24:10,290 hearing and hear from the applicant, okay. 793 01:24:11,590 --> 01:24:13,470 So then we will open the public hearing. 794 01:24:13,650 --> 01:24:17,770 We have other cards from the public, but the commission would like to hear from the applicant 795 01:24:17,770 --> 01:24:18,490 first. 796 01:24:27,420 --> 01:24:27,800 Good evening. 797 01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:30,760 My name is Joe Offdalee with Warmington Residential. 798 01:24:30,900 --> 01:24:33,720 Thank you to the chair and commissioners for having me. 799 01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:35,880 I'll go straight to answering some questions. 800 01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:44,920 the calculation to get to the unit count is your acreage times the highest available density in your general plan, 801 01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:53,360 in this case it's 3. So it's 9.33 acres times 3 gets you to 27.99, 8 state density bonus law, 802 01:24:53,400 --> 01:25:00,080 you round up on everything. So that rounds up to 28 and you multiply that by a percentage of affordable 803 01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:05,000 units that you're going to provide, and that equates to a density bonus that you will 804 01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:10,340 like achieve. So 28 is our date based density. That's the key number to know there. So you 805 01:25:10,340 --> 01:25:15,520 multiply 28 by 5%, that could see the 1.4. Again, we round up. So that's the 2 affordable. 806 01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:20,480 And then the 28 times the 22.5 gets the additional density on top of that. 807 01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:26,000 So that's how you're 808 01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:33,560 to wrap you then just so since with the calculation be different if they were not if that was 809 01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:38,400 not the very low income but rather you know low income or moderate income. 810 01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:44,640 Yes sir it has a there's a big chart has a scale of what you can provide and the density allowed to do 811 01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:49,380 that. So you provide up to you can get a hundred percent density bonus depending on how many 812 01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:55,760 affordable units you provide a percentage of that. So it's a sliding scale and five percent is the 813 01:25:55,760 --> 01:25:59,540 is the amount you can select per unit to get to the density bonus. 814 01:26:00,100 --> 01:26:02,080 Okay, thank you. 815 01:26:03,140 --> 01:26:08,840 I think the Director-Cletty answered your question regarding the discussion of whether there's 816 01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:12,640 state density bonus law regarding a balance of the affordable compared to the market rate. 817 01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:17,300 There's nothing in the state law that discusses that in terms of the affordability level, 818 01:26:17,440 --> 01:26:20,160 compared to the market rate, price of the homes. 819 01:26:20,340 --> 01:26:22,580 It doesn't get into that at all. 820 01:26:25,180 --> 01:26:33,340 Regarding how we price the homes so state law there is ACD does require it's a calculation is a formula that provides us that it's based off of 821 01:26:33,340 --> 01:26:38,060 Am I an area median income for the county so they take that I think in reverse I county it's 822 01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:49,140 By 85,000 is area median income and they take a percentage of that and apply that to all the costs that it goes into owning a home utilities HOA all that and it kind of spits out 823 01:26:49,140 --> 01:26:56,120 a number that we can sell that particular unit for and maintain affordability for the 45 years. 824 01:26:57,220 --> 01:27:03,940 So, it's not a exact science, it has like a full-performer and a bunch of inputs that 825 01:27:03,940 --> 01:27:06,720 gets approved by the city before we can sell those homes. 826 01:27:10,020 --> 01:27:18,440 Could you go very basic on that and explain to me a home that I think plan to 827 01:27:18,440 --> 01:27:27,520 I think it's a 1900 square feet, so a 1900 square foot home in Corona would have to sell for at least a million dollars. 828 01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:28,980 I'm just picking that number. 829 01:27:30,440 --> 01:27:36,420 Can you describe then the actual process that someone that has an AMI of $85,000, 830 01:27:36,900 --> 01:27:41,680 how they would be able to purchase a million dollar home? Can you kind of chart that out? 831 01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:46,400 It's subsidized by us, so they don't pay, I'm not sure the number of 100,000 for them. 832 01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:54,660 So you buy down the million dollar home, we just incur the cost, but we get all the benefits of the waivers and the additional density of offset that. 833 01:27:56,100 --> 01:27:57,920 Can you then take that out? 834 01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:05,780 So I'm the homeowner I've lived in this home for 10 years and the home is now worth a million five. 835 01:28:06,100 --> 01:28:08,160 One of the affordable units, yes. 836 01:28:08,900 --> 01:28:10,100 And I sell it. 837 01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:12,340 So how does that process work? 838 01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:13,260 Explain that. 839 01:28:13,260 --> 01:28:13,460 Sure. 840 01:28:13,460 --> 01:28:16,940 how if you could. Yeah, so there's a de-distriction that's recorded on the house. So it's gonna 841 01:28:16,940 --> 01:28:21,640 run with the land, run with the home until for the 45 years. So when you go to sell that house, 842 01:28:22,260 --> 01:28:26,060 they'll be a de-distriction that includes the density of bonus agreement and all the restrictions 843 01:28:26,060 --> 01:28:30,020 that are going with that, including a limit on the equity that you can increase your 844 01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:36,020 sale of that house. It's like 3% annually. So if the prices go up and you want to sell it for more, 845 01:28:36,220 --> 01:28:41,200 you still have to provide it a sale to someone that qualifies for the very low. So it maintains the 846 01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:43,060 affordability for that entire 45 years. 847 01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:46,360 There's no huge market gain until that 46th year. 848 01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:49,300 So if it was a main dollar home, 849 01:28:49,420 --> 01:28:51,620 and I was able to get it for $100,000 850 01:28:51,620 --> 01:28:53,040 because of the buy-down. 851 01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:56,020 And in 10 years, it's now worth $150,000. 852 01:28:56,460 --> 01:28:58,200 It's still has to qualify to an applicant 853 01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:01,920 and that applicant can only buy it 854 01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:04,580 at the buy-down rate of $150,000. 855 01:29:04,580 --> 01:29:05,120 That's correct. 856 01:29:06,620 --> 01:29:07,320 Exactly right. 857 01:29:07,900 --> 01:29:09,500 And that occurs for 45 years. 858 01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:14,600 And who is the compliance of that is, is it? 859 01:29:16,440 --> 01:29:20,500 We have a, what is that process that Wormington is the developer, 860 01:29:21,020 --> 01:29:24,800 but 10 years from now Wormington sells to someone else 861 01:29:25,380 --> 01:29:26,760 walk me through that process. 862 01:29:27,060 --> 01:29:28,140 So it'll show up on titles. 863 01:29:28,260 --> 01:29:31,000 Anyone that tries to sell a house when they receive their title report, 864 01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:33,880 mortgage companies will see that it has that de-distriction. 865 01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:37,500 So they wouldn't be able to sell that house legally without complying with that. 866 01:29:37,500 --> 01:29:43,340 that's also why we have the affordable housing agreement with the city. Those qualified buyers are required to 867 01:29:43,340 --> 01:29:46,180 go get approved through the city as it income qualified buyer. 868 01:29:48,280 --> 01:29:50,140 So we do all the leg work. We give all 869 01:29:50,140 --> 01:29:53,760 that information the city to get the thumbs up then we can sell that house. Same thing we go for 870 01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:58,140 future homeowners. So someone at the city has to monitor this long term. 871 01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:05,200 During the tenure of the agreement for the forty-five years. 872 01:30:06,740 --> 01:30:10,880 And they don't have to monitor it, it's just that if there's some of the cells, they would have to approve the sale. 873 01:30:11,500 --> 01:30:11,500 I 874 01:30:15,790 --> 01:30:19,630 have more questions, but I'll defer to them. 875 01:30:20,210 --> 01:30:21,730 I'm sorry. Mr. Osterley was. 876 01:30:22,310 --> 01:30:22,950 I'm sorry. 877 01:30:23,310 --> 01:30:23,690 Off to Lee. 878 01:30:23,830 --> 01:30:25,270 Off to Lee, okay. Thank you. Sorry. 879 01:30:25,530 --> 01:30:25,850 That's enough. 880 01:30:25,970 --> 01:30:26,430 Or we didn't. 881 01:30:26,710 --> 01:30:27,230 So it's tough to say. 882 01:30:27,630 --> 01:30:27,950 Okay. 883 01:30:29,150 --> 01:30:29,730 We'll talk later. 884 01:30:34,070 --> 01:30:42,850 Could you maybe describe the thought process of, again, I'm looking at Exhibit 2, which shows 885 01:30:42,850 --> 01:30:49,990 the largest state homes at the bottom and then the various other homes throughout. 886 01:30:50,690 --> 01:30:59,130 The thought process of wanting to place two low-end, very low-income homes within a development 887 01:30:59,130 --> 01:31:02,650 that would have a state homes in the same development. 888 01:31:04,350 --> 01:31:09,430 And in the context of the commission has had before us, 889 01:31:09,430 --> 01:31:14,310 several applications recently, of low-income, very low-income 890 01:31:14,310 --> 01:31:18,450 density, where the development has a preponderance of low-income. 891 01:31:19,230 --> 01:31:24,070 And the entire project could be seen as a low-income housing 892 01:31:24,070 --> 01:31:31,250 development which benefits the community by having a very high density. You can build a lot of 893 01:31:31,830 --> 01:31:36,790 low-income housing units which allows it to be built. So I'm just kind of curious if you could 894 01:31:36,790 --> 01:31:44,710 explain the thought process of mixing low-income with the state-sized homes in the same development. 895 01:31:45,030 --> 01:31:48,690 Sure. I think we're comfortable with mixed-income communities. We've done it throughout California. 896 01:31:49,490 --> 01:31:54,430 We've done an incinita, Santa Ana, Ventura, a lot of higher-end cities as well. 897 01:31:54,590 --> 01:31:55,890 Incinius, for as a good example. 898 01:31:57,210 --> 01:32:01,710 These homes, I think there's maybe a misconception about what the affordable home will be. 899 01:32:02,190 --> 01:32:05,910 This isn't going to be any less than the homes that are going to be surrounding it. 900 01:32:06,210 --> 01:32:08,210 These are going to be people that are qualified to buy a home. 901 01:32:08,310 --> 01:32:10,350 They just don't have the income at this point in time. 902 01:32:10,830 --> 01:32:14,390 Often, the one in incinius, for example, we sold to a pastor that worked at the church 903 01:32:14,390 --> 01:32:14,870 next door. 904 01:32:14,870 --> 01:32:20,350 So, these are people that are already in the community that just haven't had the ability to get into a home. 905 01:32:21,770 --> 01:32:24,210 So, mixing in the incomes to us is not a problem. 906 01:32:25,170 --> 01:32:28,190 I think you're still going to be able to buy a market home if you can afford it in this community, 907 01:32:28,370 --> 01:32:31,790 but it's also going to provide for those that are in the community that they can't afford the home. 908 01:32:32,010 --> 01:32:41,930 But it's not going to be maybe what is typically perceived as affordable housing or something of section A or the projects or Barrio. 909 01:32:41,930 --> 01:32:44,730 Those aren't the type of things that we're bringing into the community. 910 01:32:45,390 --> 01:32:47,670 There's just two houses driving through the neighborhood. 911 01:32:47,910 --> 01:32:48,810 You wouldn't know the difference. 912 01:32:52,610 --> 01:33:02,410 What percentage of projects that you've done like this have you sold versus sold to non-profits to become rentals? 913 01:33:02,530 --> 01:33:04,850 We've sold all of them. We haven't sold these non-profits. 914 01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:17,200 Would Wormington be developing on this site if the new SDBL and zoning laws went into place? 915 01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:23,320 Would this same development be before us for 28 homes? 916 01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:26,480 Maybe I don't understand the question. 917 01:33:27,320 --> 01:33:35,460 Well, so you are utilizing a new state law that allows you to identify low income housing, 918 01:33:35,460 --> 01:33:38,840 which then allows you to build more homes on a parcel 919 01:33:38,840 --> 01:33:41,920 than the zone normally would allow for. 920 01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:44,420 Plus, we haven't even talked about the exceptions 921 01:33:44,420 --> 01:33:47,800 but then the myriad of exceptions that you're asking for. 922 01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:51,960 And so my question is, would this been a viable development 923 01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:55,280 if you had not been able to utilize the very low income housing 924 01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:56,080 on this? 925 01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:57,520 No, it would not have been viable. 926 01:33:57,980 --> 01:34:00,080 And we wouldn't have been able to even build 28 homes 927 01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:03,080 based on the existing zoning and the restrictions of those zones. 928 01:34:05,280 --> 01:34:07,180 Thank you. 929 01:34:11,300 --> 01:34:14,380 Do we have any further questions for the applicant at this time? 930 01:34:15,580 --> 01:34:16,420 Not at this time. 931 01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:19,620 Then thank you very much, Mr. Opsley. 932 01:34:20,220 --> 01:34:23,900 We will hear from our other public speakers, 933 01:34:24,660 --> 01:34:28,180 and potentially if we need to have you come back 934 01:34:28,180 --> 01:34:29,700 to answer more questions. 935 01:34:30,420 --> 01:34:32,620 So I do have several cards. 936 01:34:36,320 --> 01:34:41,610 And the first one looks like it. 937 01:34:41,610 --> 01:34:52,710 I can read the first name Donna, and the last name Heber, maybe perhaps I, okay, just my luck. 938 01:34:54,550 --> 01:35:02,130 And then have another card here from 939 01:35:04,590 --> 01:35:12,330 Mr. Nakh. So that would ask them to come. Mr. Nakh, there we are. 940 01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:36,520 Hello, good evening. I live on CL Fleming Circle which is right next to the development and it's on the south of the development which is proposed. 941 01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:52,950 I think with the project proposed, I'm very concerned that the area will have huge traffic issues with 35 homes being built in this small area and not only that. 942 01:35:52,950 --> 01:36:00,770 I mean, to me, it looks like with this kind of all homes being jammed into this area, 943 01:36:02,130 --> 01:36:04,750 my home price is going to die a big time. 944 01:36:05,530 --> 01:36:08,870 So those are my serious concerns, and I would like to bring it to your attention. 945 01:36:09,510 --> 01:36:10,230 Thank you. 946 01:36:13,730 --> 01:36:13,950 All right. 947 01:36:14,030 --> 01:36:14,950 Thank you, Mr. Nick. 948 01:36:15,450 --> 01:36:18,450 Then we'll go back to Ms. Heaver. 949 01:36:20,380 --> 01:36:21,700 Oh, there she is. 950 01:36:21,840 --> 01:36:21,980 Great. 951 01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:23,260 Perfect timing. 952 01:36:32,170 --> 01:36:32,850 Very much. 953 01:36:32,850 --> 01:36:37,170 I'm not a public speaker, I'm a little nervous, I'll try and articulate. 954 01:36:39,730 --> 01:36:42,930 I worry about that extra low income. 955 01:36:43,510 --> 01:36:47,490 No doubt, Corona probably needs low income housing. 956 01:36:48,350 --> 01:36:55,690 But even if you were able to give a low income resident that home, it's expensive to maintain 957 01:36:55,690 --> 01:37:01,610 it, to put furniture in it, to put a backyard, I'm pretty sure you're not going to build 958 01:37:01,610 --> 01:37:09,370 back yard. So, and what about the property taxes? Are they able to afford the property taxes? 959 01:37:09,710 --> 01:37:16,610 Is that, do they get property taxes on say 100,000 versus a million dollar home? I just 960 01:37:16,610 --> 01:37:21,790 don't think it's affordable. I don't think it can do for that neighborhood. My house 961 01:37:32,670 --> 01:37:39,130 backyard in again, it's a hundred thousand dollars. It's expensive. So, I would concern that whoever 962 01:37:39,130 --> 01:37:52,450 purchases that home can't afford that home in that area. I have other concerns. I'm sure they're on the other two portions here. I'll get back up for that. So that's my point. Thank you. 963 01:37:53,030 --> 01:38:04,130 Okay, good. Thank you for your comments. Next I have a Mr. Bill Miller followed by Charlotte Stone and 964 01:38:07,910 --> 01:38:10,130 Mike Rossi, our Mickey Rossi. 965 01:38:11,910 --> 01:38:13,230 Hey, I'm Bill Miller. 966 01:38:13,610 --> 01:38:18,270 I think before you consider proving this or whatever, you do something about the parking 967 01:38:18,270 --> 01:38:22,350 problem that the mosque creates a Friday from 12 to 3. 968 01:38:22,770 --> 01:38:25,110 You're getting a good bit of adding more cars on that street. 969 01:38:25,610 --> 01:38:28,290 I drive that at least twice a day every day. 970 01:38:28,470 --> 01:38:29,650 I grew up on that street. 971 01:38:29,650 --> 01:38:34,670 So, it's all the part, the parking and the traffic first. 972 01:38:37,070 --> 01:38:38,250 Okay, thank you, Mr. Miller. 973 01:38:57,500 --> 01:38:59,240 Good evening. My name is Charlottes Stone. 974 01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:02,800 And my concerns about these projects is, number one, 975 01:39:03,020 --> 01:39:06,960 there's since not capable of handling the amount of traffic that's going to be generated 976 01:39:06,960 --> 01:39:09,420 by the 35 proposed houses. 977 01:39:09,780 --> 01:39:11,820 I have pictures of carrots in that area. 978 01:39:12,300 --> 01:39:14,100 It's two lanes. It's reddit. 979 01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:16,800 It's pitted. 980 01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:20,380 it's uneven pavement. It's terrible condition. 981 01:39:23,140 --> 01:39:24,620 There's that nothing should be a 982 01:39:24,620 --> 01:39:28,660 proof I agree with Bill until the Moss parking is dealt with. It becomes a 983 01:39:28,660 --> 01:39:30,300 real traffic hazard on Fridays. 984 01:39:33,060 --> 01:39:34,600 I was going to say we didn't receive any of 985 01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:39,480 the attachments which we were able to get, but we've not been provided a copy of 986 01:39:39,480 --> 01:39:45,080 the initial study prepared by CECA that may have potentially significant effects 987 01:39:45,080 --> 01:39:49,540 as well as the city prepared mitigation negative declaration. 988 01:39:50,260 --> 01:39:53,620 We don't provide it or that wasn't provided to us. 989 01:39:53,620 --> 01:40:01,560 I'd like to know what they see as negative versus what we see back in March of 2022, 990 01:40:01,980 --> 01:40:06,360 warming to propose 41 homes there at the meeting there at the mosque. 991 01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:12,600 And we told them, there's no way these are all half-acre and one acre lots. 992 01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:15,960 These are million and multi-million dollar homes. 993 01:40:16,220 --> 01:40:23,120 It's ridiculous to try to put something in on less than 14,000 square foot. 994 01:40:23,500 --> 01:40:24,680 Lots, it's ridiculous. 995 01:40:25,520 --> 01:40:27,820 Now we're talking 7,000 square foot lots. 996 01:40:28,360 --> 01:40:29,960 It's just not in that area. 997 01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:31,920 That street is magnificent. 998 01:40:33,620 --> 01:40:36,780 The houses on it, they're old, they're stately, they're some new. 999 01:40:37,180 --> 01:40:40,720 But they're all of the same general level. 1000 01:40:40,720 --> 01:40:47,440 So, like I mentioned to Wormington back then, my $2 million house is going to go to $1.5 or less. 1001 01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:52,460 The property tax issues and other things, are they going to get a variance on the property taxes? 1002 01:40:53,480 --> 01:41:02,360 That I don't get. I paid for a property taxes, are they? My property taxes are $15,000 a year. Can they be that? 1003 01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:09,240 And then I heard mentioned they're going to have one side street parking in this project 1004 01:41:09,240 --> 01:41:12,300 because of how narrow the streets are. 1005 01:41:12,780 --> 01:41:17,200 I look at how big horn drive is when I drive up, it's about to fold it and foot in 1006 01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:18,020 a parkway. 1007 01:41:18,660 --> 01:41:23,740 And that's wall to wall cars, who's going to police them not parking on both sides of 1008 01:41:23,740 --> 01:41:37,260 street, and that tracked another big question. Are these very low income home buyers going 1009 01:41:37,260 --> 01:41:43,380 to be able to rent these houses out at marker baits instead of residing in them? And who's 1010 01:41:43,380 --> 01:41:46,220 going to place that? Thank you. 1011 01:41:48,550 --> 01:41:54,370 Okay, thank you for your comments. Next, Mike Rossi. 1012 01:41:59,940 --> 01:42:02,600 Sure, there was a gentleman who had to leave. 1013 01:42:03,720 --> 01:42:03,960 Okay. Okay. 1014 01:42:04,980 --> 01:42:05,160 Maybe. 1015 01:42:05,960 --> 01:42:08,160 Then I have two more cards beyond that. 1016 01:42:08,780 --> 01:42:11,140 Joe Morgan and Rufus Rosser. 1017 01:42:22,940 --> 01:42:23,960 This is fun. 1018 01:42:24,440 --> 01:42:27,460 So went to the meeting at the mosque when this first came up. 1019 01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:30,080 And to call these guys shady. 1020 01:42:30,440 --> 01:42:34,120 They're just they're kind of like the guys from Taylor and Citron. 1021 01:42:34,300 --> 01:42:35,620 Same sort of a deal. 1022 01:42:35,620 --> 01:42:45,060 Um, as these guys are using the the fig leaf of low income housing to increase their own incomes, 1023 01:42:45,700 --> 01:42:49,240 um, you know, it doesn't, I think a couple of speakers have addressed this before. 1024 01:42:49,820 --> 01:42:56,440 Um, the the low income development right next door and then the one that was previously approved here, 1025 01:42:56,440 --> 01:42:59,060 uh, the bulk of those are 70% AMI. 1026 01:42:59,440 --> 01:43:00,740 They're, they're in the same kind of income. 1027 01:43:01,260 --> 01:43:04,760 So rent would be about a thousand bucks or something, 11, 1200 bucks a month. 1028 01:43:06,760 --> 01:43:12,700 Except, you know, in this house, you know, and these guys don't give a crap about low-income residents. 1029 01:43:13,340 --> 01:43:16,940 They're just doing this to jack their own pockets. 1030 01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:21,840 The smallest floor plan I can see is 32-31. 1031 01:43:22,780 --> 01:43:23,940 It's a two-story house. 1032 01:43:25,620 --> 01:43:27,740 And we have a 14 hundred square foot house. 1033 01:43:28,980 --> 01:43:34,540 You know, you guys don't need me to tell you, you know, what the utilities cost for kind of an average house in Corona. 1034 01:43:35,180 --> 01:43:46,500 And, you know, and they're going to be in a HOA as well, you know, and it's just, I'm not sure what we can do really do about this, except for just call these guys the dirt bags that they are. 1035 01:43:46,820 --> 01:43:58,960 You know, they could use this same, you know, generosity and actually help people, maybe do what C&C does, they could actually build something low and come if they were in that business, but they're not. 1036 01:44:00,040 --> 01:44:03,140 You know, I mean, what's going to happen with the H.O.A. 1037 01:44:03,140 --> 01:44:06,560 I mean, they, they, they, they, in the H.O.A. part of the whole thing. 1038 01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:11,840 And, and I am really curious about the, the LMDs and CFD in the area. 1039 01:44:12,140 --> 01:44:13,160 How that's going to work. 1040 01:44:13,620 --> 01:44:20,040 There's a city bound, you know, by any of these low-income agreements, 1041 01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:26,000 to give waivers on, on their, on the charges that they, that they assess, 1042 01:44:26,380 --> 01:44:27,000 you know, for this area. 1043 01:44:27,120 --> 01:44:27,760 Thank you very much. 1044 01:44:29,820 --> 01:44:33,800 Okay, thank you Mr. Morgan and Mr. Rosser. 1045 01:44:36,330 --> 01:44:37,410 Thank you. 1046 01:44:37,510 --> 01:44:40,170 Rufus Rosser, 2785 Guardson. 1047 01:44:40,950 --> 01:44:44,810 I'm kind of building on what my neighbors were asking earlier. 1048 01:44:45,350 --> 01:44:48,510 There's a concern about the traffic, especially if you're going to have 1049 01:44:48,510 --> 01:44:53,750 a mother in law suite or multi-generation possibility of 1050 01:44:53,750 --> 01:44:59,230 multi-generational occupants in the home on-screen parking is a concern. 1051 01:44:59,230 --> 01:44:59,970 So... 1052 01:45:00,180 --> 01:45:12,820 So we'll overnight on-screen parking be prohibited in this development, is a question that I have or a suggestion that I'm making to ease the traffic flow. 1053 01:45:14,540 --> 01:45:29,440 If the developer can maybe give us an estimated cost per square foot, an average cost per square foot for these homes that give us some idea of, you know, what quality homes will be placed on these lines. 1054 01:45:30,240 --> 01:45:36,520 will if the finishes be basic or they're going to be executive level, you know, what impact 1055 01:45:36,520 --> 01:45:44,540 will it have on the existing properties? As my neighbor said, the rest of the homes there are 1056 01:45:44,540 --> 01:45:51,720 at least on a half a good lot and they're worth or value right now between 1.5, 2.5 million dollars. 1057 01:45:56,590 --> 01:46:05,610 Okay, good. Thank you, Mr. Rosser. And since we've heard from, well, it looks like we have 1058 01:46:05,610 --> 01:46:10,820 one other, sure. One other member of the public, I'd like to comment. 1059 01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:16,420 Effect, I'll grab it right here. Conrad, PDM at 2511, Rosser Drive, which is right there. 1060 01:46:16,780 --> 01:46:21,160 Phil Stone was a developer when we bought there. And those houses, fortunately, I'm on one 1061 01:46:21,160 --> 01:46:27,220 houses there that's on one acre and which is which is fantastic because ultimately it's true that 1062 01:46:27,220 --> 01:46:34,720 that entire area are million dollar homes two million dollar homes enough and my feeling on it is 1063 01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:41,140 we've got the parking problem with the park we've got a parking problem with the traffic problem 1064 01:46:41,140 --> 01:46:46,060 with the mosque and now we're gonna add even more to that area that that area and if you look at 1065 01:46:46,060 --> 01:46:50,640 the roads around there it really wasn't designed for that type of traffic and it's true. 1066 01:46:50,640 --> 01:46:56,560 If we were to decide to sell our house and when somebody wants to come and look you're going to be like they're going to look around same look at all this traffic 1067 01:46:57,320 --> 01:47:11,100 Look at all the traffic around here. I want to I don't want to buy this house and so I think that there is some there needs to be some thought into slamming 35 homes in an area where a builder is going to come in and they just want to make money and I get its businesses business, but we live there. 1068 01:47:12,220 --> 01:47:19,140 So I'm hoping that there's some thought put into this and slamming 35 homes in there when most of the homes in the area when you drive around I mean 1069 01:47:19,140 --> 01:47:24,360 there they're not on small lots. So I really do hope that the city puts some 1070 01:47:24,360 --> 01:47:28,040 some thought into allowing them to just slam a bunch of homes in there. 1071 01:47:28,280 --> 01:47:30,460 Oh, thanks. I'll fall off the card. 1072 01:47:31,640 --> 01:47:38,520 Okay, good. Thank you for your comment, Mr. Pidea. Then that is all of our speaker 1073 01:47:38,520 --> 01:47:45,980 cards. Whether any written comments from the public that were submitted to the 1074 01:47:47,440 --> 01:47:48,600 No chair, Woody. 1075 01:47:49,640 --> 01:47:54,260 And that would the commission like to hear from the applicant again to ask for their questions? 1076 01:47:54,820 --> 01:47:55,480 Yes, I would. 1077 01:48:02,430 --> 01:48:02,610 Okay. 1078 01:48:02,610 --> 01:48:05,430 I promise not to miss up the name, Mr. Offerley. 1079 01:48:05,990 --> 01:48:06,450 Offerley. 1080 01:48:06,670 --> 01:48:07,230 Offerley. 1081 01:48:07,490 --> 01:48:08,250 I missed the D. 1082 01:48:10,390 --> 01:48:17,410 There was some interesting comments by the public that I think are our pertinent in kind of further 1083 01:48:17,410 --> 01:48:23,550 help understand the process of the two homes that are very low-income. 1084 01:48:24,390 --> 01:48:31,510 So what an landscape and came up as an option, what is the intent of what's being provided 1085 01:48:31,510 --> 01:48:38,390 to those homes, both front yard and back yard, how are the property taxes handled? 1086 01:48:39,150 --> 01:48:47,890 And yeah, I think there was a comment about rental or what is the other option to do a vacation 1087 01:48:47,890 --> 01:48:49,030 home VRBO. 1088 01:48:49,490 --> 01:48:54,030 So just curious what is tied to those homes? 1089 01:48:54,450 --> 01:48:58,110 Yes, so the starting with the landscaping, so they're required like any other home buyer 1090 01:48:58,110 --> 01:49:01,710 in our development to landscape their rear yard within six months of purchasing their home. 1091 01:49:01,710 --> 01:49:06,210 So they have that requirement whether it's just saw or gravel or something less desirable 1092 01:49:06,210 --> 01:49:07,530 than that. 1093 01:49:07,530 --> 01:49:14,230 to be landscape. So it has to have some sort of completeness as to can't just be a dirt in the back. 1094 01:49:14,310 --> 01:49:18,510 But you don't provide that. That's, you do not. That's a requirement, okay. 1095 01:49:19,290 --> 01:49:26,270 Regarding property taxes, CFD, M&MDs, those are all incorporated into the sales price of the 1096 01:49:26,270 --> 01:49:30,590 homes. So they have to factor all that in before we can decide what we can sell that particular 1097 01:49:30,590 --> 01:49:35,410 home for. It works out that they have to about 35% of their income can go towards housing, 1098 01:49:35,410 --> 01:49:48,570 Of course, the purchase of the home, the rest you have to make sure that they have enough money and their budget to account for HOA property taxes, which are assessed by the assessor, all the normal things that you would have to do it all if I for home and own a home. 1099 01:49:48,910 --> 01:49:52,470 You have to back those into the calculation in terms of what we could sell the home for what they can afford. 1100 01:49:53,070 --> 01:49:58,770 So the taxation is based upon the assessed value, which would be market value not low-income. 1101 01:49:59,190 --> 01:50:00,870 Every county kind of does a little different. 1102 01:50:00,870 --> 01:50:04,910 but it would be on the full value of the home not whatever the 1103 01:50:04,910 --> 01:50:08,770 assessor determines the value is yeah right which means full value not 1104 01:50:08,770 --> 01:50:13,470 to be yeah yeah they're not taking into account the hypothetical 900 1105 01:50:13,470 --> 01:50:17,710 thousand dollar deduction that some counties do some counties do but not 1106 01:50:17,710 --> 01:50:22,310 all counties okay and I don't know riverside up top of my head I bought okay 1107 01:50:22,310 --> 01:50:26,510 and what about rental options and there is that there are lots of rented out just 1108 01:50:26,510 --> 01:50:29,270 like a non-profit would be able to not rent it out for the afternoon out to 1109 01:50:29,270 --> 01:50:34,430 of a qualified renter, so like someone that has the same income restrictions as they do. 1110 01:50:34,730 --> 01:50:35,010 I see. 1111 01:50:35,910 --> 01:50:39,790 And that's all indicated in the agreement and the de-distriction. 1112 01:50:41,150 --> 01:50:44,270 You mentioned the HOA and the LMDs. 1113 01:50:45,110 --> 01:50:46,770 I'm sorry this is in the other. 1114 01:50:47,690 --> 01:50:50,850 This is in the tentative track now, but I think it's pertinent. 1115 01:50:51,370 --> 01:50:54,810 There is a proposal to have an HOA with 35 homes. 1116 01:50:54,870 --> 01:50:55,410 Yes, sir. 1117 01:50:57,930 --> 01:51:10,410 We've done a lot of analysis and seen a lot of very small HOA's of this size that it's very difficult even in these large homes to have an effective HOA. 1118 01:51:11,730 --> 01:51:15,490 Have you analyzed that and can you speak to that? 1119 01:51:15,930 --> 01:51:17,430 Yeah, there's not a whole lot of maintenance on these. 1120 01:51:17,950 --> 01:51:24,330 There's every homeowner is responsible for the maintenance of their own exterior home and we are yards each way will maintain the front yards 1121 01:51:24,330 --> 01:51:27,990 The streets and the water quality is really the big issue on 1122 01:51:28,850 --> 01:51:33,010 H-way maintenance, so that big kind of based in the front. There's not a whole lot of maintenance to annual 1123 01:51:33,830 --> 01:51:36,190 So we feel that it's more than enough to handle 1124 01:51:36,190 --> 01:51:44,490 But if a farmer call correctly these this is private streets not city streets, so the proponents the H-O-A would be maintain the street 1125 01:51:44,490 --> 01:51:48,910 Yeah, so they'll have a main schedule. I make sure that they're having up money and they're reserved to 1126 01:51:49,490 --> 01:51:53,490 Resurface that on the regular schedule, which is either I think eight years. 1127 01:51:57,850 --> 01:51:59,110 That's questions for now 1128 01:52:03,540 --> 01:52:05,780 Commissioner Longwell anything further 1129 01:52:06,360 --> 01:52:08,440 Yeah, I think 1130 01:52:08,440 --> 01:52:09,600 Commissioner Sickle and 1131 01:52:10,320 --> 01:52:15,980 Asked a lot of the things that I know I was thinking about and and maybe for a Commissioner Longwell as well 1132 01:52:15,980 --> 01:52:21,580 Yeah, I mean, I didn't even think of VRBO honestly and when you said it, it just gave me like a headache 1133 01:52:22,120 --> 01:52:23,960 How does that get monitored? 1134 01:52:24,200 --> 01:52:28,820 I mean, who's responsible for babysitting something like that? 1135 01:52:29,780 --> 01:52:34,800 At the end of the day, there's an HOA that would also look at that, but that the city would be the one that would be required to do that. 1136 01:52:35,660 --> 01:52:45,820 And I do want to remind the commission we do not allow short-term rentals here in the city, and we actually work with the company that provides us daily monitoring. 1137 01:52:45,820 --> 01:52:52,600 But we prohibited that last year and so we constantly monitor that and if something pops up, 1138 01:52:52,740 --> 01:52:55,000 we immediately get on them and issue them and notice. 1139 01:52:56,960 --> 01:52:57,180 All right. 1140 01:52:57,260 --> 01:52:59,460 Thank you for the context there, Ms. Clota. 1141 01:53:01,940 --> 01:53:06,120 Any further questions or we will close the public hearing? 1142 01:53:07,100 --> 01:53:07,140 No. 1143 01:53:07,540 --> 01:53:07,960 Then all right. 1144 01:53:08,420 --> 01:53:08,920 Thank you, sir. 1145 01:53:09,160 --> 01:53:10,940 Thank you for your time and your information. 1146 01:53:11,860 --> 01:53:13,820 So then we are closing the public hearing. 1147 01:53:13,820 --> 01:53:14,740 And we'll bring this. 1148 01:53:15,120 --> 01:53:19,240 I'm so sorry to interrupt, we do have Mr. Morgan, who turned in a speaker card for this 1149 01:53:19,240 --> 01:53:20,340 item as well. 1150 01:53:20,680 --> 01:53:21,060 And the next. 1151 01:53:28,230 --> 01:53:31,710 I had a card for four, and then I just put one in for five, because I had a question 1152 01:53:31,710 --> 01:53:35,450 along the lines, because we have had quite a bit of discussions about each away, so this 1153 01:53:35,450 --> 01:53:37,530 would be the TTM item. 1154 01:53:38,250 --> 01:53:38,970 I mean, we have. 1155 01:53:40,370 --> 01:53:48,870 So, we've, in this room, my collective, we, you guys did it, but I was just here, definitely 1156 01:53:48,870 --> 01:53:58,210 said that a 35, a 35 home age away is not particularly viable over water retention basins 1157 01:53:58,870 --> 01:54:05,510 and street maintenance. It's a pretty huge, it's a pretty huge obligation for a small 1158 01:54:05,510 --> 01:54:10,970 age away. And so there's definitely been some that haven't been able to pay the bills, had a lot 1159 01:54:10,970 --> 01:54:20,930 drama. I heard a whole lot of H.O.A. horror stories from smaller H.O.A. in 18. So, you know, 1160 01:54:21,850 --> 01:54:28,210 you have, you have weighed in on this before, and I would encourage you to weigh in on it. 1161 01:54:28,270 --> 01:54:35,070 Again, if nothing else, maybe to, to, maybe have it be part of an L.M.D. where at least 1162 01:54:35,070 --> 01:54:39,430 the cost can be contained and the liability can be spread out to make it, you know, make 1163 01:54:39,430 --> 01:54:44,630 where this is, you can't, you can't have these little boutique H.O.A.s and then I'm fail and then the 1164 01:54:44,630 --> 01:54:47,930 city ends up having to fix them anyway. So thank you very much. 1165 01:54:50,580 --> 01:54:53,780 Thank you. So we'll definitely 1166 01:54:53,780 --> 01:54:59,460 close the public hearing that I guess that comment was more intended for the next item. So we will 1167 01:54:59,460 --> 01:55:09,740 just kind of take that into our consideration at that time. But yeah, with this particular item, 1168 01:55:10,480 --> 01:55:17,880 I mean, I think there are a lot of details that came up during the hearing, you know, things 1169 01:55:17,880 --> 01:55:26,560 that I hadn't even thought of ahead of time, some that I had, and for me, it's kind 1170 01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:33,700 of raised more questions, you know, that I just want to know answers to, to, you know, be 1171 01:55:33,700 --> 01:55:36,100 able to determine, 1172 01:55:38,760 --> 01:55:45,760 you know, if the conditions, you know, surrounding the agreement are 1173 01:55:45,760 --> 01:55:46,500 having met. 1174 01:55:47,060 --> 01:55:51,140 So that's kind of where I'm at right now in the, you know, for a big picture. 1175 01:55:53,120 --> 01:55:58,560 And I guess my concern is that we've got a developer that's providing the minimum amount 1176 01:55:58,560 --> 01:56:05,480 affordable housing to get the maximum out of variance in benefit, and it feels like 1177 01:56:05,480 --> 01:56:10,910 maybe this is a question for the city that we don't have the ability to say no, 1178 01:56:11,720 --> 01:56:16,420 that it's just a given, and it's kind of a courtesy ask. 1179 01:56:19,430 --> 01:56:22,270 So if I can, I understand, 1180 01:56:22,990 --> 01:56:35,710 It's a painful topic because it's a topic where we have lost some of the ability to regulate based on our normal standards and it is unfortunate. 1181 01:56:37,130 --> 01:56:40,330 Staff has spent a lot of time on this project. 1182 01:56:41,390 --> 01:56:48,810 As unpopular as it may come off, there was a lot of time spent looking at the waivers that they proposed. 1183 01:56:48,810 --> 01:56:51,850 looking at the private street standard. 1184 01:56:52,590 --> 01:56:58,130 We do have a private street standard, and a developers allowed the option to use it. 1185 01:56:58,670 --> 01:57:03,750 We assess that with the fire department when they came in with that standard. 1186 01:57:05,110 --> 01:57:13,370 So it's a difficult thing to digest, and I hate to say, no, it's not a blank approval. 1187 01:57:13,370 --> 01:57:21,610 But I can tell you that we did look at it from every aspect that we are required professionally to look at. 1188 01:57:22,650 --> 01:57:25,550 The setbacks, the distance criteria. 1189 01:57:26,690 --> 01:57:32,490 So it's a single family development, which is single families surrounding this entire community. 1190 01:57:33,350 --> 01:57:39,130 They did listen to staff in terms of trying to match the number of lots along the adjoining property lines. 1191 01:57:39,130 --> 01:57:41,830 So to the south, you have five lots, they said, 1192 01:57:42,150 --> 01:57:43,190 we'll do five lots. 1193 01:57:43,910 --> 01:57:45,490 To the east, there are seven lots. 1194 01:57:45,590 --> 01:57:47,030 They lined up six lots. 1195 01:57:47,070 --> 01:57:48,730 So they were trying their best 1196 01:57:48,730 --> 01:57:51,230 to at least buffer the existing homes. 1197 01:57:52,270 --> 01:57:54,370 When this was previously approved, 1198 01:57:54,730 --> 01:57:57,950 you had about four homes that cited on Garrett's set, 1199 01:57:57,950 --> 01:57:59,770 and now you have three homes. 1200 01:58:00,170 --> 01:58:02,010 So the design is similar in nature, 1201 01:58:02,110 --> 01:58:04,030 but yes, the lot sizes were larger. 1202 01:58:04,630 --> 01:58:06,730 So they are getting more lots, 1203 01:58:07,410 --> 01:58:11,070 But everything that they're doing is internaled to the project. 1204 01:58:11,810 --> 01:58:15,750 And I do want to let you know, this was previously going to be an elementary school. 1205 01:58:15,810 --> 01:58:22,230 It was the Crona Norco Unified School District that determined that they were not going to build a school on here. 1206 01:58:22,990 --> 01:58:26,770 So development on this property was intimate one way or another. 1207 01:58:26,930 --> 01:58:31,530 So if it was not going to be a school, then it was going to fall back on being residential. 1208 01:58:31,530 --> 01:58:41,910 And over the years, the mosque ended up buying the adjacent property which was originally part of this development and they ended up taking it for their purpose. 1209 01:58:42,990 --> 01:58:45,670 So it was never not going to be developed. 1210 01:58:45,970 --> 01:58:50,710 Granded this situation came along and with the state making all the changes in density bonus. 1211 01:58:50,970 --> 01:58:54,990 These are new avenues that we all have to navigate and that's exactly what we're doing. 1212 01:58:54,990 --> 01:59:02,930 The agreement is there to hold them accountable and to make sure that the project is being built according to the standard. 1213 01:59:03,270 --> 01:59:10,830 But yes, if the losses they only get to due to units and they get unlimited waivers, we have to evaluate those waivers. 1214 01:59:11,470 --> 01:59:21,230 And when staff looked at them, the waivers did not really change anything in terms of providing an issue with regards to public health and welfare. 1215 01:59:21,230 --> 01:59:25,470 I mean, the homes are still going to look like the setbacks of other homes. 1216 01:59:25,810 --> 01:59:30,470 It's really just the fact that it's more noticeable because we have to draw attention to it. 1217 01:59:30,870 --> 01:59:33,350 Ms. Clevdick, maybe you could help me understand, 1218 01:59:35,430 --> 01:59:37,930 I had always known the adage to there's 1219 01:59:37,930 --> 01:59:40,650 the letter of the law and there's the intent of the law. 1220 01:59:41,810 --> 01:59:49,050 And the applicant has done a great job of documenting everything legally that allows this 1221 01:59:49,050 --> 01:59:55,330 theory to work on paper, but it's very apparent that this is not intended to provide low-income 1222 01:59:55,330 --> 01:59:55,810 housing. 1223 01:59:56,430 --> 01:59:59,970 It is merely a vehicle to put more homes on. 1224 02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:08,100 Council, hands down. When you have 4,000 square foot state homes in the development, that will probably sell 1225 02:00:08,100 --> 02:00:16,560 an excessive $2 million mixed with very low income housing. And believe me, I am all foreloin 1226 02:00:16,560 --> 02:00:24,240 come housing. It gets fabulous. I think the project that we recently approved right here is a great example of what 1227 02:00:24,240 --> 02:00:30,940 can happen. My question is when it's very apparent that this is an applicant that's using 1228 02:00:30,940 --> 02:00:37,840 the law to the advantage. I would think that there is the ability in the city's done an 1229 02:00:37,840 --> 02:00:43,880 amazing job of documenting every piece of it. But isn't there an ability here to question and 1230 02:00:43,880 --> 02:00:54,220 say, what is the intent of the law? I'm sorry, what is the letter of the law and what is the 1231 02:00:54,220 --> 02:00:54,960 as an approval. 1232 02:00:55,460 --> 02:00:58,260 I understand what you're saying, but it's subjective at that point. 1233 02:00:58,340 --> 02:00:59,080 I agree with you. 1234 02:00:59,080 --> 02:01:00,720 It's the way we write ordinances. 1235 02:01:01,240 --> 02:01:06,160 My ordinance can say one thing, and it says, and you we can always scrutinize, but was that 1236 02:01:06,160 --> 02:01:07,120 really the intent? 1237 02:01:07,200 --> 02:01:11,600 And it's like, well, we're telling you, like, offense can be six feet high, but was that 1238 02:01:11,600 --> 02:01:12,100 the intent? 1239 02:01:12,560 --> 02:01:13,980 So, it becomes subjective. 1240 02:01:14,500 --> 02:01:19,680 And staff can't get into that role because it's never going to be a consensus and what 1241 02:01:19,680 --> 02:01:23,120 everybody wants it to say or what everybody wants it to think. 1242 02:01:23,120 --> 02:01:26,020 So, it is an uncomfortable conversation. 1243 02:01:26,620 --> 02:01:31,760 I could tell you in speaking with Warming 10, you hear the verbage low income, but given 1244 02:01:31,760 --> 02:01:36,380 with the price of housing in California, this can be workforce housing. 1245 02:01:36,700 --> 02:01:40,140 You have government employees that can't afford to buy a home. 1246 02:01:40,260 --> 02:01:45,120 You have working nurses that can't afford to buy a home, and they would actually fall 1247 02:01:45,120 --> 02:01:46,360 within this category. 1248 02:01:46,820 --> 02:01:51,300 There are people that are working in our contributing to society, but that option is just not 1249 02:01:51,300 --> 02:01:57,380 for them to purchase. And that's what this does. I don't think the state had any intent of 1250 02:01:57,380 --> 02:02:02,460 saying, well, if you do one project, it's got to be all affordable. I think in their mind, 1251 02:02:02,840 --> 02:02:07,860 they do want integration, they do want mixed income. And that's how it should look. It should 1252 02:02:07,860 --> 02:02:12,960 not be a project that's isolated and constantly stands out out of zone. And everybody points to it 1253 02:02:12,960 --> 02:02:19,600 and says, that's an affordable project and that's not. I clearly get that and I understand that. 1254 02:02:20,660 --> 02:02:30,020 There's just such a disparity between what's classified in here is a low, very low-income home, 1255 02:02:30,260 --> 02:02:31,360 which in a clearly understand. 1256 02:02:31,720 --> 02:02:36,120 It's the exact same home that's going to sell for a million plus brand new. 1257 02:02:36,340 --> 02:02:37,560 I get that. 1258 02:02:42,350 --> 02:02:50,710 I'm just not comfortable with that and understanding that it's our role to ensure that the city is falling 1259 02:02:50,710 --> 02:02:55,930 the law, but then it's also important to identify and say there's problems here. 1260 02:02:56,390 --> 02:03:04,210 And if this is an example that needs to be highlighted, that the laws were developed to 1261 02:03:04,210 --> 02:03:10,850 truly increased density to allow for more housing, to allow for more low income housing, 1262 02:03:12,050 --> 02:03:14,810 and they checked all the boxes to get there. 1263 02:03:14,810 --> 02:03:15,910 And that's, 1264 02:03:18,310 --> 02:03:24,970 I just have, tough, it's tough for me to support something that, in theory, we 1265 02:03:24,970 --> 02:03:26,830 don't really have a choice on. 1266 02:03:27,270 --> 02:03:30,830 And so you're going to have to offer guidance on how we would perceive it that. 1267 02:03:30,870 --> 02:03:37,310 Well, again, as we state that it's going to come down to us and we have to have sound justification. 1268 02:03:39,370 --> 02:03:43,790 So, because that is what the developer is going to use in their arguments. 1269 02:03:43,790 --> 02:03:46,250 on the state of that and the application with their 1270 02:03:46,250 --> 02:03:50,390 so it's got to be what is it other than yes visually 1271 02:03:50,390 --> 02:03:55,050 or in concept or the intent I don't like it is not really 1272 02:03:55,050 --> 02:03:58,370 a preponderance of evidence arguments so that is 1273 02:03:58,370 --> 02:04:01,490 the law was very clear on that they were whoever wrote the law 1274 02:04:01,490 --> 02:04:05,270 was very clever in that so it's got to come down to 1275 02:04:05,270 --> 02:04:09,530 that there is something that we have overlooked to where 1276 02:04:09,530 --> 02:04:15,070 There is evidence that there's something that we can hang our hats on. 1277 02:04:16,630 --> 02:04:24,910 Well, I guess what I would just say at this point is I think part of at least from my 1278 02:04:25,870 --> 02:04:31,110 my hesitation is because this is new for us. I mean, we've dealt with other 1279 02:04:32,270 --> 02:04:42,790 you know, density bonuses and low-income housing, you know, projects, but this particular 1280 02:04:42,790 --> 02:04:51,950 style of project is new to this commission, and you know, the idea of, you know, the nuts 1281 02:04:51,950 --> 02:05:00,270 and bolts of the law, how it applies to this. I think that's from the questions we've 1282 02:05:00,270 --> 02:05:06,630 And asking, I think we all want to be able to drill down into those details a little more. 1283 02:05:07,450 --> 02:05:14,690 Or, I mean, it sounds like Commissioner Sickwell and Dozen, and I do, and Commissioner Longwell 1284 02:05:14,690 --> 02:05:16,490 is nodding her head a little bit there too. 1285 02:05:19,110 --> 02:05:26,430 So, you know, and our staff is fantastic here, and Ms. Khaled is constantly educating all of 1286 02:05:26,430 --> 02:05:34,210 on finer points of different, you know, state laws and city ordinances and codes. 1287 02:05:35,710 --> 02:05:43,330 So I have no reason to doubt the staff's work or Ms. Collette is signing off on that, 1288 02:05:43,350 --> 02:05:49,710 but I think, you know, the whole point of it coming before this commission is we have 1289 02:05:49,710 --> 02:05:55,550 to sign off on what they're doing, and, you know, for me, I'd like to be able to get into 1290 02:05:55,550 --> 02:06:07,490 more details to be comfortable to affirm the findings that staff have made, which 99.5 times 1291 02:06:07,490 --> 02:06:16,190 out of 100 are ironclad, but I think I'd like to have more time to look into that more. 1292 02:06:25,790 --> 02:06:39,150 I miss a question from a legal standpoint, clearly you and the staff have gone through each point. 1293 02:06:40,190 --> 02:06:54,550 Is there a position from the city attorney that validates or could help us understand the questions that we have before us? 1294 02:06:58,070 --> 02:07:11,270 I, I'm trying to understand the questions really because the model agreement that you have before you is the model agreement that the city came up with based on our ordinance and the state law. 1295 02:07:11,530 --> 02:07:21,570 This is not an agreement that came from the developer. This is our agreement. So we have a model agreement for four selling units and we have a model agreement for rental units. 1296 02:07:21,570 --> 02:07:32,070 So this is the agreement that we present to applicants when they submit an application for an affordable housing density bonus project. 1297 02:07:35,080 --> 02:07:44,800 Which they're clearly using every bit of the law to get this development as it's documented before us. 1298 02:07:44,940 --> 02:07:45,420 That's correct. 1299 02:07:46,960 --> 02:07:53,660 I mean, I really do think that it is providing the minimum amount of affordable units to get the maximum amount of 1300 02:07:53,660 --> 02:07:57,000 variances, and there isn't a way to say no, 1301 02:07:59,870 --> 02:08:06,150 whether we like it or not. And I say that just as much for the benefit of the people that want to say 1302 02:08:06,150 --> 02:08:07,730 here also. 1303 02:08:12,840 --> 02:08:24,240 So the option before us is in protest supporting an application before us. I 1304 02:08:24,240 --> 02:08:29,320 mean that's. Unless there's something in the development standard or in one of the 1305 02:08:29,320 --> 02:08:38,240 waivers that you have serious concern about that you want us to go back and take a look at. 1306 02:08:38,240 --> 02:08:44,660 I mean, I mean, I mean, I'll tell you I spent our packet this week was 500 pages including 1307 02:08:44,660 --> 02:08:54,400 M&D. I certainly can't profess to know every legal end of what was provided to us. I have 1308 02:08:54,400 --> 02:09:02,540 to trust that and it absolutely is clear that they have that staff has tried to answer every single 1309 02:09:02,540 --> 02:09:08,140 request for variance and where it would fit and I don't question it at all. So ultimately, 1310 02:09:08,140 --> 02:09:19,220 it comes down to if the city is making a recommendation that is backed up by clearly thorough 1311 02:09:19,220 --> 02:09:26,140 documentation, then the decision has to be made based upon that. 1312 02:09:27,160 --> 02:09:34,580 Yeah, the only thing I don't think that we discussed, but was definitely asked by residents 1313 02:09:34,580 --> 02:09:41,520 on multiple, by multiple residents was the traffic, and the traffic that it brings, it wasn't 1314 02:09:41,520 --> 02:09:48,060 part of the presentation, but I'm sure as part of the analysis, that's something that we can 1315 02:09:48,060 --> 02:09:52,280 It's actually part of the other two parts of the application that we have, so yes, before 1316 02:09:53,400 --> 02:09:54,240 those apply. 1317 02:09:56,320 --> 02:09:58,280 So, those questions can be answered next. 1318 02:09:58,620 --> 02:10:06,000 Yeah, so, like I said, I mean, I understand what you just mentioned that, yes, we 1319 02:10:06,000 --> 02:10:15,440 We are taking the staff at their word and have no reason to doubt them, but my point was, 1320 02:10:15,540 --> 02:10:22,940 I wish I had more time to really get into the details and to verify that all those conditions 1321 02:10:22,940 --> 02:10:24,120 have been met. 1322 02:10:24,120 --> 02:10:33,340 And I mean, we get this for three and a half days or so. 1323 02:10:34,100 --> 02:10:35,060 So I don't know. 1324 02:10:35,980 --> 02:10:38,780 I would rather take a little more time just to be comfortable. 1325 02:10:39,040 --> 02:10:41,520 Maybe I would be 100% behind it. 1326 02:10:41,860 --> 02:10:48,320 Once I had the chance to explore that and verify everything for myself. 1327 02:10:48,900 --> 02:10:51,040 For me, I don't think 100 days would make a difference. 1328 02:10:51,160 --> 02:10:52,840 Am I opinion to be really honest? 1329 02:10:52,840 --> 02:10:59,400 Yeah, it's not going to change the dynamic of the, of the application. 1330 02:11:00,260 --> 02:11:00,580 Right. 1331 02:11:03,850 --> 02:11:09,790 The other point here is a recommendation by us does move to council. 1332 02:11:11,370 --> 02:11:20,110 And in that time council has greater visibility and more long-term visibility than the commission has 1333 02:11:21,010 --> 02:11:28,310 to also weigh in with appropriate staff between a recommendation should it go forward tonight 1334 02:11:28,310 --> 02:11:31,330 ultimately it has to be approved by Council. 1335 02:11:31,950 --> 02:11:34,110 So that's another discussion to have. 1336 02:11:35,130 --> 02:11:37,290 Another point to add to this. 1337 02:11:39,240 --> 02:11:41,100 Well, I understand your point, 1338 02:11:41,380 --> 02:11:48,060 but I think we also don't want in the past we've not wanted to just kick something to the Council 1339 02:11:48,060 --> 02:11:59,830 without giving it our all and giving them a true voice from the commission. 1340 02:12:00,110 --> 02:12:05,930 I agree with that, but what we have done has been very specific to the council, 1341 02:12:06,330 --> 02:12:09,830 items that we've moved forward that we have concerns with that we did approve, 1342 02:12:10,270 --> 02:12:17,850 but we approved with very specific watchout things to be educated by and for staff 1343 02:12:17,850 --> 02:12:24,150 to provide follow-up information so that when they make a decision, they clearly understand 1344 02:12:24,150 --> 02:12:27,810 the concerns that this commission had. 1345 02:12:28,570 --> 02:12:37,390 It's not, we're not passing our job to counsel what we're doing is noting what concerns 1346 02:12:37,390 --> 02:12:47,210 we have and for them to also review that and help make an informed decision that not only 1347 02:12:48,490 --> 02:12:56,130 allows for the application to be asked, but there are obviously very strong legal ramifications 1348 02:12:56,130 --> 02:12:57,870 of everything related to this. 1349 02:12:58,590 --> 02:12:59,550 This is all. 1350 02:12:59,790 --> 02:13:06,150 I mean, every bit of the documentation we receive spoke to the state and city code. 1351 02:13:09,980 --> 02:13:32,740 My thought is that I don't think deferring this to for us to get more details is really going to change the points that we'd surface is if we option to move it forward with specific recommendations of our concerns and doing that. 1352 02:13:32,740 --> 02:13:34,320 I'm just throwing that out for discussion. 1353 02:13:44,980 --> 02:13:50,960 And I would just add, this is, in a sense, one of the first tests that we've had before 1354 02:13:50,960 --> 02:13:58,460 us where the application is clearly using the law to develop something that's of the benefit 1355 02:13:58,460 --> 02:14:07,200 of the development versus improving housing low income and moderate income housing. 1356 02:14:07,200 --> 02:14:36,460 And I guess that goes to my point is, if I had better understanding of the law, then I would be able to say, okay, well, I feel like it does meet the requirements of the law and I can confirm that what staff is telling me is true and valid and I can get behind the finding. 1357 02:14:38,520 --> 02:14:44,640 Yeah, I mean, from that standpoint, I'm sorry, Mr. Woody, I know this respect, the complexities 1358 02:14:44,640 --> 02:14:53,820 of these laws are such that it would take a lot to learn the specific details and the 1359 02:14:53,820 --> 02:14:58,600 risks that we would take or not taking doing that, and I'm not saying that we would be better 1360 02:14:58,600 --> 02:14:59,920 informed if we came back. 1361 02:15:00,020 --> 02:15:10,720 But ultimately, in this case, I know and assume that the city staff and the legal within the city have reviewed it. 1362 02:15:10,940 --> 02:15:22,760 Well, I guess looking through the city's agreement, you know, the HDB itself, you know, it was, I was surprised that it was only 15 pages. 1363 02:15:24,280 --> 02:15:29,720 And, and some of the details that we discussed tonight, I didn't really see represented in there. 1364 02:15:29,900 --> 02:15:35,440 You know, I, you know, some of the details of the affordability aspect, you know, property taxes. 1365 02:15:36,400 --> 02:15:42,020 You know, the, you know, the landscaping of somebody's yard. 1366 02:15:43,120 --> 02:15:50,340 So, you know, that's what I'm, some of those things were not really in that agreement. 1367 02:15:50,940 --> 02:15:55,740 And like I said, that's partly why I hadn't even considered some of it beforehand. 1368 02:15:57,480 --> 02:15:59,160 Point ballot on that. 1369 02:16:01,450 --> 02:16:11,210 So I mean, does an agreement that doesn't have all of those specifics in it, you know, 1370 02:16:11,870 --> 02:16:13,890 does there need to be more specifics in it? 1371 02:16:13,990 --> 02:16:14,550 I don't know. 1372 02:16:14,830 --> 02:16:21,730 And I'm just saying, you know, if there was time to think of that over and, you know, determine 1373 02:16:21,730 --> 02:16:27,070 and why there were maybe here from the city attorney on that, I don't know. 1374 02:16:35,980 --> 02:16:41,040 Ms. Colletta, I know the city attorney is named on the agreement, 1375 02:16:43,280 --> 02:16:44,060 anything you could 1376 02:16:44,060 --> 02:16:50,000 add to that in terms of some of the items at Mr. Woody mentioned relative to some of 1377 02:16:50,000 --> 02:16:50,860 it. 1378 02:16:51,180 --> 02:16:51,200 So. 1379 02:16:51,200 --> 02:16:51,740 I'm in feedback. 1380 02:16:51,760 --> 02:16:52,060 Yeah. 1381 02:16:52,720 --> 02:16:58,320 The density bonus agreement talks about the reservation of the affordable units and the waivers. 1382 02:16:58,960 --> 02:17:04,560 When it comes to just like any other property, when it comes to maintenance after the fact, 1383 02:17:04,740 --> 02:17:09,600 it falls within our realm of property maintenance to make sure the property is being maintained 1384 02:17:09,600 --> 02:17:11,880 according to laws. 1385 02:17:12,280 --> 02:17:16,580 Front yard, the developer is required to install the front yard landscaping that's with every 1386 02:17:16,580 --> 02:17:18,620 development, regardless of the income. 1387 02:17:19,360 --> 02:17:25,460 Backyards, the HOA's have their own set of rules, so we don't get involved in people's 1388 02:17:25,460 --> 02:17:32,000 The only time co-compliance will get involved if there is an issue, where the maintenance 1389 02:17:32,000 --> 02:17:36,180 is so bad, to where it is impacting adjacent residents. 1390 02:17:36,360 --> 02:17:42,260 You know, some people are hoarders, there's garbage, there's extensive storage that really 1391 02:17:42,260 --> 02:17:44,440 shouldn't be housed on a residential law. 1392 02:17:44,580 --> 02:17:50,500 That's when we get involved in going into someone's backyard, saying, look, this is excessive. 1393 02:17:50,500 --> 02:17:55,540 if you need to clean it up, it's causing an impact to your neighbors, it's causing, you 1394 02:17:55,540 --> 02:18:02,740 know, for a mentor run around. So we do take care of the street facade and the exterior 1395 02:18:02,740 --> 02:18:08,600 facade. That's part of our property maintenance. But if an HOA has a stricter rule, then 1396 02:18:08,600 --> 02:18:14,020 it's going to be on the HOA on how they balance that. We don't do that for any other property 1397 02:18:14,020 --> 02:18:15,260 I have the city. 1398 02:18:25,730 --> 02:18:33,230 Well, I'm of a mindset to offer this motion that, 1399 02:18:35,300 --> 02:18:35,720 frankly, 1400 02:18:38,240 --> 02:18:41,280 on my motion would be that 1401 02:18:45,320 --> 02:18:55,300 council upon our recommendation for approval of this, be aware of an understanding that 1402 02:18:55,300 --> 02:19:23,520 This is truly a test of the laws, and a direct result of a developer utilizing those laws to their benefit, and how can the city, at the same time, look at this, from a legal standpoint, and question of the validity of using low-income housing to develop 4,000 square foot plus homes. 1403 02:19:23,520 --> 02:19:30,160 on a higher density parcel, and I'm sorry I can't put that into fire 1404 02:19:30,160 --> 02:19:36,800 written words into emotion, but I guess this is a test of the laws that the state 1405 02:19:36,800 --> 02:19:44,120 passed and that the city was required to endop, and now we're having to weigh in and 1406 02:19:44,120 --> 02:19:50,560 make a decision on a very complex matter that is not black and white, and we don't 1407 02:19:50,560 --> 02:19:59,460 put the city in legal harm, but at the same time it doesn't mean that we can't question 1408 02:19:59,460 --> 02:20:05,000 the law, and that we can't question the intent versus the letter of the law. 1409 02:20:07,300 --> 02:20:13,680 And so my motion would be that that this panel move forward with a recommendation for approval 1410 02:20:13,680 --> 02:20:18,100 under protest, identify in those items of concern to council. 1411 02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:20,480 That would be. 1412 02:20:21,380 --> 02:20:25,360 Okay, yeah, I mean, I would rather be able to hear 1413 02:20:25,360 --> 02:20:29,280 from the city attorney, but I think your ideas 1414 02:20:29,280 --> 02:20:34,920 probably the, you know, in lieu of not having 1415 02:20:34,920 --> 02:20:38,360 the city attorney present and not able to answer our questions, 1416 02:20:38,360 --> 02:20:51,800 not able to, you know, know if there's any sort of finer points of the law that work 1417 02:20:51,800 --> 02:20:57,940 to our concerns and that, you know, I don't know. 1418 02:20:59,980 --> 02:21:02,360 Yeah. I would rather be able to talk 1419 02:21:02,360 --> 02:21:08,360 to the city attorney, but in here from them, but I think your idea may be the best we can 1420 02:21:09,740 --> 02:21:15,360 unless because it doesn't sound like anyone else besides myself wants to delay this. 1421 02:21:16,440 --> 02:21:16,820 No. 1422 02:21:16,940 --> 02:21:18,040 No, I would second that motion. 1423 02:21:20,680 --> 02:21:22,120 And I do want to... 1424 02:21:23,060 --> 02:21:27,680 The city attorney at the same town is going to say the same thing. 1425 02:21:28,000 --> 02:21:35,540 Unless this body has something that they can specifically point to that, 1426 02:21:35,540 --> 02:21:40,920 there are some issues with the waivers themselves that is a concern 1427 02:21:40,920 --> 02:21:46,880 that we need to know what that is and what that evidence is and why we how we come back that 1428 02:21:46,880 --> 02:21:53,400 up that's that's strictly where the law pushes that because if the city is able to come up with 1429 02:21:53,400 --> 02:21:58,940 evidence why a certain waiver shouldn't be granted and that does affect the design of the project. 1430 02:21:58,940 --> 02:22:05,720 So, well, I mean, I mean, I don't want to sit here and he's not going to be the same 1431 02:22:05,720 --> 02:22:06,280 as us. 1432 02:22:06,620 --> 02:22:07,620 There's not this rabbit. 1433 02:22:07,860 --> 02:22:09,360 We're going to be able to plot our hats. 1434 02:22:09,620 --> 02:22:14,020 So we same with us, we look at it and we're trying to look at all of the facts in front 1435 02:22:14,020 --> 02:22:19,320 of us and what is it can we accept with these waivers or can we not accept that? 1436 02:22:19,500 --> 02:22:23,920 I understand that, but I also don't think that the planning commission should just be 1437 02:22:23,920 --> 02:22:28,160 ever stamped, approving an item because it's the law. 1438 02:22:28,780 --> 02:22:32,940 And certainly I am not, I don't believe we're questioning anything that the City staff 1439 02:22:32,940 --> 02:22:38,760 I think they have put an amazing amount of effort into this and I'm sure that's 110% accurate. 1440 02:22:38,960 --> 02:22:40,540 That is not my position all. 1441 02:22:40,680 --> 02:22:47,440 What I'm saying is if we are asked to weigh in on hundreds of pages of documents in an application, 1442 02:22:48,340 --> 02:22:59,000 It is not our place to be able to know every fine detail of the law and make a opinion based upon what's presented to us. 1443 02:23:00,060 --> 02:23:00,740 And that's all. 1444 02:23:01,080 --> 02:23:06,640 Our concern is expressed in the motion, is that just because it's the law, 1445 02:23:07,040 --> 02:23:10,420 doesn't mean that we have to turn over and accept it exactly the way that it is. 1446 02:23:10,420 --> 02:23:16,800 We still have the right to question what's before us and in my opinion in my motion. 1447 02:23:17,380 --> 02:23:26,220 I'm saying that this is clearly a vehicle that somebody smartly is using the law to their advantage. 1448 02:23:27,180 --> 02:23:32,480 And it's well put together, I can't question that, but it doesn't mean that it's still completely right. 1449 02:23:32,480 --> 02:23:39,080 And so that's my intent of recommending to counsel that I'm recommending a motion to approve it, 1450 02:23:39,080 --> 02:23:45,020 because it is the law, but for counsel and legal staff, to question it and say, 1451 02:23:45,040 --> 02:23:50,500 is this really the intent that we want to just always represent follow these. And we have a 1452 02:23:50,500 --> 02:23:58,180 city of developments of 4,000 square foot estate homes with low income housing just to get it approved. 1453 02:23:58,300 --> 02:24:02,220 And I don't want to be in that position going forward in the commission. 1454 02:24:02,480 --> 02:24:05,440 And that's why I'm stating that in the motion. 1455 02:24:08,370 --> 02:24:13,550 And what, what the council in city attorney want to do 1456 02:24:13,550 --> 02:24:16,090 without, that's, that is their prerogative 1457 02:24:16,090 --> 02:24:17,330 and they're privy to do that. 1458 02:24:17,470 --> 02:24:20,690 I just want to make it known at least for my standpoint, 1459 02:24:21,390 --> 02:24:22,530 what my concern was. 1460 02:24:25,020 --> 02:24:29,180 Okay, so then we have a motion from Commissioner Sikuland 1461 02:24:32,630 --> 02:24:37,730 to approve the density bonus housing 1462 02:24:37,730 --> 02:24:48,710 agreement with reservations that should be communicated to Council and to the city attorney 1463 02:24:49,720 --> 02:25:00,500 to see if there's, you know, just as as the final points were studied and used in the application 1464 02:25:00,500 --> 02:25:12,400 if any of them might be used to alter the agreement before it gets found. 1465 02:25:12,460 --> 02:25:20,580 End or end or to just raise a question that is this the application that the law was intended to out. 1466 02:25:23,370 --> 02:25:24,870 Okay, so then that is the motion. 1467 02:25:26,930 --> 02:25:30,910 And we have a second. 1468 02:25:31,770 --> 02:25:33,470 Yeah, so we had to do that for a second, 1469 02:25:55,000 --> 02:25:59,820 and so the motion passes, I would have rather had more time to look into it. 1470 02:26:00,000 --> 02:26:03,340 So then we'll move on to our next public hearing. 1471 02:26:04,140 --> 02:26:06,360 We've already heard the presentation on it. 1472 02:26:06,560 --> 02:26:20,300 This is for a tentative track map 38495 for subdividing the parcel, the 9.33 acres into 35 single family residential lots. 1473 02:26:20,300 --> 02:26:29,680 And as I mentioned, we've heard the presentation and then let's go to questions for staff regarding the tracked map. 1474 02:26:40,320 --> 02:26:46,000 So this is one where it is appropriate to bring up the HOA conversation. 1475 02:26:47,100 --> 02:27:00,140 Ms. Lopez and staff was there a recommendation or analysis to do an LMD based on just as such a small HOA. 1476 02:27:02,450 --> 02:27:10,630 I don't believe there was, but I don't know of Chris would like to help answer the question. 1477 02:27:10,650 --> 02:27:15,770 Well, to BLMD cannot maintain a private street, that's not allowed. 1478 02:27:16,670 --> 02:27:18,930 So, the LMD cannot maintain a private street. 1479 02:27:19,030 --> 02:27:19,150 No. 1480 02:27:19,850 --> 02:27:24,470 That's the reason they have to assume full responsibility for their street. 1481 02:27:26,680 --> 02:27:31,420 And is there, I'm sorry, it's been a while on the H.O.A. 1482 02:27:31,600 --> 02:27:40,860 Is there any requirement when the development is being developed to estimate what the H.O.A. costs are going to be? 1483 02:27:41,140 --> 02:27:46,080 So is that, you know, because it's a city, which is pretty substantial to maintain, 1484 02:27:46,460 --> 02:27:49,180 it's Larry Seale and repair and stripe and all that. 1485 02:27:49,500 --> 02:27:51,780 Is there any calculation it has to be done? 1486 02:27:51,780 --> 02:27:57,780 That's something it's not a requirement of ours, so it's something that the developer has to look into. 1487 02:27:58,520 --> 02:28:07,500 If really if it's an HOA that they're really just concerned about maintenance and the responsibility is street maintenance, street lights or water quality basin, 1488 02:28:08,120 --> 02:28:11,820 there's really not a lot for that HOA to do other than ongoing maintenance. 1489 02:28:11,820 --> 02:28:18,700 And why was this not a dedication of public streets? 1490 02:28:19,360 --> 02:28:27,040 What would be the rationale in the public works that is because of the narrow street that it's not a waiver? 1491 02:28:27,280 --> 02:28:28,500 It's the waiver. 1492 02:28:29,220 --> 02:28:34,020 I mean, essentially a public street would have required 56 foot right away if I'm not mistaken. 1493 02:28:35,320 --> 02:28:43,280 or 60 is what I'm being told, and so they are proposing 46 foot overall right away. 1494 02:28:44,440 --> 02:28:49,260 And getting back to the waivers, I know we didn't, they were in the previous application, 1495 02:28:50,880 --> 02:28:56,460 but there is no definition of what can be asked for or waived, right? 1496 02:28:56,460 --> 02:29:03,000 So in this case, in theory they could have done a 20 foot wide street with a single lane and 1497 02:29:03,000 --> 02:29:04,140 no parking, right? 1498 02:29:04,140 --> 02:29:09,200 I think at some point, as long as it passed fire, I think, right? 1499 02:29:09,200 --> 02:29:10,200 Right, correct. 1500 02:29:10,420 --> 02:29:10,900 Yeah, right. 1501 02:29:16,840 --> 02:29:17,800 Okay, that's for me. 1502 02:29:19,660 --> 02:29:20,020 May I have more? 1503 02:29:26,500 --> 02:29:29,040 Yeah, I don't know that I have any questions at this point. 1504 02:29:29,380 --> 02:29:29,380 I mean, 1505 02:29:31,890 --> 02:29:34,860 you know, I'm concerned about the HOA issue too. 1506 02:29:38,130 --> 02:29:43,780 And the idea of the public versus private streets. 1507 02:29:45,200 --> 02:29:47,140 So, I don't have questions. 1508 02:29:47,880 --> 02:29:51,660 Oh, just to clarify. I'm sorry. Is the HOA in exception? 1509 02:29:53,680 --> 02:29:58,560 Was that listed as an exception to do an HOA? 1510 02:29:58,800 --> 02:29:59,960 No, thankfully not. 1511 02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:07,840 So just by default, because it's a private street, you can't have an LMD. Correct. Yes. So again, we're kind of forced. 1512 02:30:09,740 --> 02:30:11,460 We're forced there. 1513 02:30:12,000 --> 02:30:28,340 Okay. I believe, as the Commission may be aware, it's not uncommon for like an HOA. I mean, even if this were a street that met the requirements of the city standard, it's not uncommon for example, like the water retention basin to be maintained by an HOA. 1514 02:30:28,340 --> 02:30:30,240 Yeah, good point. Thank you, Mr. Lopez. 1515 02:30:45,200 --> 02:30:47,420 Okay, then let's open the public hearing. 1516 02:30:52,520 --> 02:31:00,020 And I know we had one speaker already who was speaking toward this particular item. 1517 02:31:01,080 --> 02:31:03,580 And then do we have other cards for this item? 1518 02:31:06,840 --> 02:31:11,240 None other than the ones you have that mentioned that three items together. 1519 02:31:12,040 --> 02:31:20,200 And then would we, would the commission want to hear from the applicant on any issues relating 1520 02:31:20,200 --> 02:31:22,120 to the tentative track map? 1521 02:31:35,690 --> 02:31:37,490 I'll have this time for me. 1522 02:31:46,050 --> 02:31:48,450 Then I guess with that, we'll close the public hearing. 1523 02:31:52,010 --> 02:31:54,150 Yeah, if we can have public speakers, 1524 02:31:56,710 --> 02:31:57,470 the hearing is open. 1525 02:32:04,640 --> 02:32:09,520 I'm sorry, I don't understand how it divides the three sections, so what you talk about. 1526 02:32:09,520 --> 02:32:16,120 So we'll concerned about the design of the homes and all those homes of the two-story or two-car garage. 1527 02:32:16,820 --> 02:32:20,420 And you have a 3,500 square foot house, multi-generational. 1528 02:32:21,100 --> 02:32:24,800 And I do think maybe there's a law. This has two cars or enough. 1529 02:32:25,200 --> 02:32:30,680 But from a practical standpoint, if you have multi-generations, you have more than two cars. 1530 02:32:31,440 --> 02:32:34,320 And not such a long driveway. 1531 02:32:34,940 --> 02:32:39,100 And if you don't have much parking on the street, where are their cars going to go? 1532 02:32:39,100 --> 02:32:45,000 And as a homeowners association, are they the ones that determine who gets to park on one side of the street? 1533 02:32:45,540 --> 02:32:48,020 Like, if I own this house, do I get to park? 1534 02:32:48,320 --> 02:32:51,940 But because it's so crowded, my neighbor doesn't get to park on the street. 1535 02:32:52,520 --> 02:32:55,200 This is a homeowners association address that. 1536 02:32:55,600 --> 02:32:57,980 And are they people that they can't park in there? 1537 02:32:58,060 --> 02:32:59,660 Are they going to be trying to park on Garrett's? 1538 02:33:00,240 --> 02:33:03,260 Like I said, I'm on the, I have the smaller size homes. 1539 02:33:03,300 --> 02:33:06,740 I'm on 20, my house backs up to a lot. 1540 02:33:06,740 --> 02:33:14,400 I can hear cars drive down, Garrett's in so fast, probably every night, every single night. 1541 02:33:14,860 --> 02:33:18,540 And it is, I feel like it's a safety hazard there. 1542 02:33:19,280 --> 02:33:23,160 So I'm worried about how many cars are going to be parked on the street in the track, 1543 02:33:23,900 --> 02:33:25,860 and the track, and of cars are going to go there. 1544 02:33:26,260 --> 02:33:29,340 And I do think they need bigger grudges for those two-story homes. 1545 02:33:29,560 --> 02:33:31,920 If you're going to have that many people, you know, that size of a house. 1546 02:33:32,160 --> 02:33:34,380 You've got a lot of people living there and extra cars. 1547 02:33:37,620 --> 02:33:43,360 Okay, thank you, and then that is our only other public speaker, so we'll close the hearing 1548 02:33:43,360 --> 02:33:48,840 and bring it back here to the Commission, and actually I'm glad she spoke, because that 1549 02:33:48,840 --> 02:33:56,580 kind of was one of the issues that I think had come up to in my mind in the previous, when 1550 02:33:56,580 --> 02:34:02,380 we were talking about the previous item, but this Commission has a couple years ago, we spent 1551 02:34:02,380 --> 02:34:15,600 a lot of time about parking and parking requirements and I don't believe I noticed a reduction in the 1552 02:34:15,600 --> 02:34:20,320 parking requirements in the in the entitlements. 1553 02:34:22,340 --> 02:34:26,680 So, how is it that there was only, you know, 1554 02:34:26,680 --> 02:34:28,780 the two-car garage, 1555 02:34:31,000 --> 02:34:35,920 you know, for a, you know, a three-year four-bedroom home, isn't it? 1556 02:34:35,920 --> 02:34:40,320 It's in our guidelines to require a higher amount of parking than that. 1557 02:34:40,420 --> 02:34:47,860 We up to four-car garages on these. What's that? There's one-of-the-floor plans as a four-car garage. 1558 02:34:48,780 --> 02:34:53,880 So, possibly three, three, three to four. Yeah, I mean, they're actually exceeding the minimum for that one, 1559 02:34:53,880 --> 02:34:57,500 But for the other units, there's only a two-car garage. 1560 02:34:58,400 --> 02:35:02,740 And then the entitlements eliminate driveways on some of them. 1561 02:35:03,660 --> 02:35:04,560 So let me clarify. 1562 02:35:05,020 --> 02:35:08,540 So the parking standard that you are referring to when it comes 1563 02:35:08,540 --> 02:35:11,260 to number of bedrooms is for multi-family units. 1564 02:35:11,360 --> 02:35:12,480 This is single-family. 1565 02:35:12,600 --> 02:35:14,560 Only single-family units are required 1566 02:35:14,560 --> 02:35:16,800 to have a two-car garage minimum. 1567 02:35:17,620 --> 02:35:20,880 So options for third and fourth ones are just additional. 1568 02:35:21,180 --> 02:35:22,860 So it's not based on bedroom. 1569 02:35:22,860 --> 02:35:29,000 They are not reducing or eliminating their driveways when Rosiel spoke of the 15-foot. 1570 02:35:29,080 --> 02:35:34,640 It's actually to the front of the house, but the driveways, most of them, I think, except 1571 02:35:34,640 --> 02:35:40,120 for one shot to verify, was 18 feet, but most of the driveways were 20 feet in depth. 1572 02:35:40,600 --> 02:35:46,120 So it was the pop out of the house that came to the 15 feet and then the driveway, the garage 1573 02:35:46,120 --> 02:35:47,740 was the one set back. 1574 02:35:49,300 --> 02:35:56,340 And to speak to the public comment, we have struggled with parking and along with all of these 1575 02:35:56,340 --> 02:36:02,560 housing laws, it also included parking, in fact, correct me if I'm wrong. 1576 02:36:02,820 --> 02:36:08,900 In some developments, we don't even, we can't even, if there is no parking at all, it's 1577 02:36:08,900 --> 02:36:09,900 still has to be approved. 1578 02:36:10,660 --> 02:36:14,740 And so there's just an amazing amount of hand tying that's been made. 1579 02:36:14,740 --> 02:36:20,260 In this case, they requested a waiver, which allows the 1580 02:36:20,260 --> 02:36:23,460 in-street parking, which goes back to the same conversations 1581 02:36:23,460 --> 02:36:25,120 we've been having this evening. 1582 02:36:28,560 --> 02:36:31,880 And I believe step, parking is limited to one side of the 1583 02:36:31,880 --> 02:36:32,700 street, correct? 1584 02:36:34,500 --> 02:36:35,220 That's correct. 1585 02:36:35,720 --> 02:36:39,260 So the street will have to be noticed that they can only 1586 02:36:39,260 --> 02:36:39,560 park. 1587 02:36:39,760 --> 02:36:42,640 And so the developer, the builder will make it the decision 1588 02:36:42,640 --> 02:36:46,620 on where the no parking will be listed in the development. 1589 02:36:46,620 --> 02:36:52,860 But since it's a private road, then the compliance of that is not on the city? 1590 02:36:53,300 --> 02:36:54,620 No, it's on the H.O.A. 1591 02:36:54,620 --> 02:37:00,400 But if our fire department happens to go in there, they can also notify them as well. 1592 02:37:01,520 --> 02:37:07,720 But to her point, there's nothing stopping if all of those spots are filled that are on the 1593 02:37:07,720 --> 02:37:13,180 curb that it could flow out into Gertzen. Do we allow parking on Gertzen? 1594 02:37:29,120 --> 02:37:33,960 Well, we'll talk with our traffic division to see what that is. 1595 02:37:38,640 --> 02:37:49,420 And then I don't know, perhaps staff, Mr. Horn can speak to the traffic on carrots and just in general. 1596 02:37:50,200 --> 02:37:58,780 I know this to the residents nearby, this potentially adds a lot more traffic on that stretch of carrots. 1597 02:37:58,780 --> 02:38:03,780 But what was there a study done regarding traffic on garrison? 1598 02:38:05,560 --> 02:38:06,560 I can speak to that. 1599 02:38:07,000 --> 02:38:13,880 So a traffic study analysis was done for this project and that was done by licensed traffic engineer. 1600 02:38:15,060 --> 02:38:25,980 And the project is projected to generate 25 trips during the AMP peak hour and a 33 trips during the PM peak hour. 1601 02:38:25,980 --> 02:38:35,000 And the study was reviewed by our city traffic engineer and this increased traffic was considered to be to not be significant. 1602 02:38:37,360 --> 02:38:43,460 And so Garrett's in there is that considered then like a collector street or 1603 02:38:43,980 --> 02:38:46,140 Yes, it's a collector street. 1604 02:38:52,510 --> 02:39:01,210 Ms. Lopez, can you pull up the site plan that shows the homes in the streets? 1605 02:39:01,210 --> 02:39:03,330 I think it was exhibit too. 1606 02:39:10,270 --> 02:39:10,670 There you go. 1607 02:39:12,870 --> 02:39:17,190 So we talk about ADUs and AAHUs on this. 1608 02:39:19,390 --> 02:39:22,450 So I know there's, unless I'm, I'm very correct, 1609 02:39:22,570 --> 02:39:27,090 I didn't see any mention in application about ADUs or AAHUs. 1610 02:39:27,110 --> 02:39:28,990 Nor was it discussed in the presentation, 1611 02:39:30,050 --> 02:39:36,990 but I'm assuming looking at these lot sizes that AAHUs and ADUs 1612 02:39:36,990 --> 02:39:41,290 They're also available for the homeowners, without the correct. 1613 02:39:42,190 --> 02:39:50,150 Well, that would be correct if at some point in time somebody wanted to propose a detached 1614 02:39:50,150 --> 02:39:57,310 accessory dwelling unit, not to exceed 1200 square feet or an attached to you at this point 1615 02:39:57,310 --> 02:40:01,270 in time this project is not proposing any ADUs. 1616 02:40:01,270 --> 02:40:07,130 Right, but that is, um, that is by right in the future. 1617 02:40:08,270 --> 02:40:09,970 I would assume, correct. 1618 02:40:10,810 --> 02:40:11,390 Correct. 1619 02:40:16,960 --> 02:40:17,320 Thank you. 1620 02:40:29,190 --> 02:40:29,590 Okay. 1621 02:40:29,670 --> 02:40:32,590 It looks like we have more comments from the public. 1622 02:40:34,010 --> 02:40:35,970 So, um, I will open the hearing. 1623 02:40:45,340 --> 02:40:46,760 The multi-generational suite. 1624 02:40:47,380 --> 02:40:48,880 That's more than one family. 1625 02:40:49,300 --> 02:40:52,360 It could be my children, my adult children and myself. 1626 02:40:52,640 --> 02:40:55,040 That's two families in a single home. 1627 02:40:58,770 --> 02:41:01,450 All right. Thank you again. 1628 02:41:03,960 --> 02:41:06,180 So back to the commission. 1629 02:41:47,740 --> 02:41:50,680 All right, but what do we have anything to discuss here? 1630 02:41:57,100 --> 02:42:05,580 There's nothing on it that I can question that's not already falls within the exemptions and the requests for the exemptions. 1631 02:42:06,700 --> 02:42:14,980 on my legal risk expertise, which is minimal, I don't know how to speak to anything that 1632 02:42:14,980 --> 02:42:20,140 is any indifferent than the conversation we had on the earlier item. 1633 02:42:42,300 --> 02:42:44,020 What do my colleagues have to say? 1634 02:42:46,370 --> 02:42:54,270 Yeah, I mean, I'm more comfortable with this than with the other item, because we've dealt with plenty of tentative track maps. 1635 02:42:56,550 --> 02:43:08,310 And I want to understand the HDB law, as it pertain to this type of development better. 1636 02:43:08,970 --> 02:43:13,730 And so, yeah, my concerns are more with that. 1637 02:43:14,530 --> 02:43:23,610 But the HOA issue, I think, still is overhangs this, because of 35 unit numbers. 1638 02:43:23,610 --> 02:43:29,910 member HOA, you know, is maybe not feasible. 1639 02:43:31,390 --> 02:43:32,470 So I don't know. 1640 02:43:34,690 --> 02:43:38,690 If I could, the only common I have, and Heidi brought that up, that's one of the things 1641 02:43:38,690 --> 02:43:47,450 that was kind of just, I've bought two homes, both were new homes, and yes, the developer, they 1642 02:43:47,450 --> 02:43:48,130 did a great job. 1643 02:43:48,290 --> 02:43:51,830 They told me how soon I was able to do all the great things with it, when the development 1644 02:43:51,830 --> 02:43:57,170 that was done two years later, you would never know that you bought the home from. 1645 02:43:58,270 --> 02:44:05,330 And the HOA is an entity that is legal in and of itself, and it's just putting a lot 1646 02:44:05,330 --> 02:44:14,270 on an HOA to manage that and the ability of a deed to be able to reinforce the rights 1647 02:44:14,270 --> 02:44:17,710 of the very low-income housing units. 1648 02:44:19,270 --> 02:44:22,390 I guess, it's a concern, it's a reality, 1649 02:44:24,550 --> 02:44:26,430 but there's a lot of trust, and then unfortunately 1650 02:44:26,430 --> 02:44:29,710 the city has to, maybe that's an item, Ms. Colleta. 1651 02:44:30,270 --> 02:44:36,610 The city has to start enforcing these and observing them and policing these items as they 1652 02:44:36,610 --> 02:44:37,610 continue to grow. 1653 02:44:38,090 --> 02:44:41,930 It's a lot for the city to take on, and maybe that's an item that could be questioned. 1654 02:44:45,230 --> 02:44:45,830 I'm not going to say no. 1655 02:44:45,830 --> 02:44:59,970 So, since we've talked about HOA sizes here, you know, as they relate to certain developments, I guess they're currently as no or. 1656 02:45:05,390 --> 02:45:25,370 That's correct. And so, if the commission or the council has questions about something like that, then that, you know, because I know we've had other developments. What was that? One that was maybe nine or ten units that proposed? 1657 02:45:25,370 --> 02:45:35,410 Yeah, but you have to remember on that one, the streets were public and so it was only the water quality basin and it was a valid 1658 02:45:36,650 --> 02:45:52,430 Conversation to have about why are you just creating an HOA for the basin and so the LMD can absorb it and the developer was willing to do that annex into the CFD add that to the cost of the home that was reasonable, but it was a public street, so that made sense. 1659 02:45:53,050 --> 02:46:00,550 We would do that same thing here, but the issue is that it's a private street and it's a standard that does not meet our public street standard. 1660 02:46:08,300 --> 02:46:15,700 Okay. Well, yeah, we continue to discuss where we come up with a motion. 1661 02:46:18,540 --> 02:46:33,110 I mean, I wonder if if the track map with the private streets, because I mean, I didn't see the way. 1662 02:46:33,110 --> 02:46:37,570 but that's kind of what necessitates the HOA. 1663 02:46:38,330 --> 02:46:42,070 And I don't know if the waiver, the waiver of, 1664 02:46:42,070 --> 02:46:45,430 well, those streets, that, that will rates the fact 1665 02:46:45,430 --> 02:46:49,270 that it makes in a private street, which then requires it 1666 02:46:49,270 --> 02:46:49,990 to be an HOA. 1667 02:46:50,530 --> 02:46:54,010 So I wonder, he was by right, because of the state law, right. 1668 02:46:54,010 --> 02:46:58,850 And so I wonder if the viability of that, you know, 1669 02:46:58,850 --> 02:46:59,410 I mean, 1670 02:47:02,460 --> 02:47:05,020 because obviously 1671 02:47:07,960 --> 02:47:14,460 there's also the selling point of not wanting the HOA fee to be 1672 02:47:14,460 --> 02:47:20,440 any higher than it needs to be, but is this, is that a legal issue? 1673 02:47:23,150 --> 02:47:24,730 Because those HOA fees 1674 02:47:24,730 --> 02:47:29,630 would be put on to the low-income buyers as well as the parking lot buyers. 1675 02:47:29,630 --> 02:47:32,670 low income units. That's the 1676 02:47:32,670 --> 02:47:34,090 prohibitive of the home buyer. If they 1677 02:47:34,090 --> 02:47:36,650 want to buy a house that has 1678 02:47:36,650 --> 02:47:40,050 for X amount of $2 million in the 1679 02:47:40,050 --> 02:47:42,930 HOA is $1,000 a month, that's their 1680 02:47:42,930 --> 02:47:45,090 choice to do that when they buy it. 1681 02:47:45,190 --> 02:47:46,590 You know, I'm kind of separating the 1682 02:47:46,590 --> 02:47:48,650 density agreement and all that, just 1683 02:47:48,650 --> 02:47:51,850 looking at it as a development. If they 1684 02:47:51,850 --> 02:47:53,610 can afford it and they choose to do that, 1685 02:47:55,350 --> 02:47:57,850 then that's there. I guess what I'm saying is 1686 02:47:57,850 --> 02:48:08,490 the HOA, when it starts out and everything's brand new, they're their liability, their exposure 1687 02:48:08,490 --> 02:48:15,090 is low, but sure, two, three, four, ten years down the road, then you have that's when you 1688 02:48:15,090 --> 02:48:21,310 have an assessment and you have a one time assessment or an annual increase in the HOA, 1689 02:48:21,410 --> 02:48:27,610 and again, that goes back to, unfortunately, only in a home, you do know that going into 1690 02:48:27,610 --> 02:48:38,800 that you had that question. Is it disclosed to the other 33 homeowners that there are potentially two homeowners that might not be able to carry their weight in the HOA? 1691 02:48:42,020 --> 02:48:50,960 I, that's not a requirement of the city. I don't know what the builder is doing, but I do not believe that that is something that has to be. 1692 02:48:51,400 --> 02:48:55,480 It's actually not a requirement that it be noticed to other buyers. 1693 02:48:57,150 --> 02:49:11,390 And the way it was explained was that the HOA costs are not worked into the affordability aspect, the calculations. 1694 02:49:13,150 --> 02:49:18,330 Oh, I thought they were, but like, special assessments when they have to do something, eight years from now probably aren't. 1695 02:49:20,760 --> 02:49:29,040 Yeah, it was mentioned that the HOA would have be reduced amount for the low income. 1696 02:49:30,720 --> 02:49:40,220 But the taxes is a regular assessment because that's done by the county that has nothing to do with the city or the developer. 1697 02:49:44,990 --> 02:49:45,850 Okay. Well, 1698 02:49:50,330 --> 02:49:53,550 do we want to make a motion with a similar, 1699 02:49:56,550 --> 02:49:58,870 you know, writer attached to it? 1700 02:50:05,200 --> 02:50:23,460 So, I guess that would be, if we're following the model from the last item that we would make a motion to approve the tentative track map with the, you know, the note that 1701 02:50:29,700 --> 02:50:34,780 that there are potentially some pitfalls here with the. 1702 02:50:34,780 --> 02:50:36,820 Yeah, I think you could just state that 1703 02:50:37,500 --> 02:50:46,260 Although that made it go more toward the housing agreement when you when you get down to most of the waivers are related to the tenant TTM 1704 02:50:46,260 --> 02:50:50,440 right it's setbacks lot sizes and so forth and so just 1705 02:50:51,340 --> 02:50:54,000 I don't know I'm not telling you how to do your motion, but 1706 02:50:54,600 --> 02:50:59,820 the recommendation is that this is now the intended track map is now the 1707 02:51:00,480 --> 02:51:02,460 reality of the 1708 02:51:03,440 --> 02:51:04,040 13 1709 02:51:07,020 --> 02:51:08,140 I guess 1710 02:51:15,410 --> 02:51:28,310 we made the commission the motion that passed with the agreement had the objections in it and it's sort of redundant attaching it here. 1711 02:51:28,950 --> 02:51:30,510 I think so. 1712 02:51:30,510 --> 02:51:30,790 Okay. 1713 02:51:31,010 --> 02:51:34,810 I'm not speaking for you. 1714 02:51:34,810 --> 02:51:42,850 Yeah, as I said, I mean, I'm more comfortable with the idea of this track map, even though 1715 02:51:42,850 --> 02:51:49,270 I wasn't comfortable with completely agreement, but I understand the process of creating 1716 02:51:49,270 --> 02:51:50,590 the track maps better. 1717 02:51:51,390 --> 02:51:59,050 And so in the context of that the agreement has been approved and recommended to Council, 1718 02:51:59,230 --> 02:52:02,830 I will make a motion to approve the track map. 1719 02:52:02,830 --> 02:52:07,470 All second that. Okay, then we'll vote. 1720 02:52:21,100 --> 02:52:28,240 Okay, motion passes next. We have the precise plan item number six. 1721 02:52:28,820 --> 02:52:44,220 Pp 2023-009. We did hear from Ms. Lopez on that as well. Although I guess I would like to maybe revisit that part of the presentation since it's been quite a while. 1722 02:52:44,220 --> 02:52:47,200 and we've had quite a bit of discussion just to, 1723 02:52:47,340 --> 02:52:49,600 for a bit of a refresher if you don't mind. 1724 02:53:00,680 --> 02:53:02,180 Do you want to go back all the way from the beginning 1725 02:53:02,180 --> 02:53:04,820 or maybe start at the site plan? 1726 02:53:06,220 --> 02:53:09,120 Oh, yeah, this isn't really just architectural design 1727 02:53:09,120 --> 02:53:12,040 and layout, right, that part of it. 1728 02:53:12,380 --> 02:53:12,600 OK. 1729 02:53:14,240 --> 02:53:19,420 So as we commissioned May recall, this is a 9.33-acre parcel, 1730 02:53:20,320 --> 02:53:24,840 and it is being subdivided into 35 single-family 1731 02:53:24,840 --> 02:53:34,600 lots with lettered lots for the water quality basin for the private street as well as for the landscape portions. 1732 02:53:35,800 --> 02:53:47,820 Five of the lots of fronting or toward the southern portion of the site plan will be reserved for approximately 15,600 to 1733 02:53:47,820 --> 02:53:57,580 19,500 square foot parcels and these homes are approximately 39,301 square feet and they consist 1734 02:53:57,580 --> 02:54:06,520 of one story dwelling units. The remainder of the 30 homes will essentially be two story homes 1735 02:54:06,520 --> 02:54:15,040 and they will average from 32,31 square feet to approximately 34,100 square feet. 1736 02:54:20,230 --> 02:54:20,910 Let's see if I can 1737 02:54:21,870 --> 02:54:29,650 last. Okay, here we go. So this is the plan one that was being proposed and this is one of the two 1738 02:54:29,650 --> 02:54:37,650 story homes. It features four bedrooms, three and a half baths and it includes as a multi-gen 1739 02:54:37,650 --> 02:54:50,890 suite. There's an option also of the buyer does not want the multi-gen suite and it would be a 1740 02:54:50,890 --> 02:54:57,850 or it sees me planned too is also a two-story home and it includes five bedrooms with four and 1741 02:54:57,850 --> 02:55:06,510 half baths. This one also includes a multi-gen suite. However, there's the option of having a 1742 02:55:06,510 --> 02:55:16,410 den on the first floor and this one includes a two-car garage and they call it another parking 1743 02:55:18,370 --> 02:55:24,550 One car garage, however, does not meet the minimum parking stall size of 9 by 20. 1744 02:55:25,830 --> 02:55:30,490 So it is essentially, I believe we do have a condition in there, the conditions of approval 1745 02:55:30,490 --> 02:55:38,370 that the applicant re-worded that to a storage area, because the municipal code does not 1746 02:55:38,370 --> 02:55:47,250 for compact parking for residential in residential garages. And then this plant three, which is a 1747 02:55:47,250 --> 02:55:54,110 one story, this one actually does feature three-car garage with a tandem fourth parking space. 1748 02:55:54,570 --> 02:56:03,330 So this one would be essentially equipped with a four-car garage. And this includes a den on on the 1749 02:56:03,330 --> 02:56:06,130 floor plan with an option of a multi-gen suite. 1750 02:56:07,210 --> 02:56:11,310 This particular square footage is 3,900 square feet. 1751 02:56:13,210 --> 02:56:14,570 These are the elevations there. 1752 02:56:15,030 --> 02:56:19,290 The applicant does propose in the city of Corona, 1753 02:56:19,630 --> 02:56:22,470 residential design guidelines, does require 1754 02:56:22,470 --> 02:56:27,410 at minimum three different elevations or floor plans. 1755 02:56:27,990 --> 02:56:31,090 And so the applicant is proposing a modern prairie, 1756 02:56:31,170 --> 02:56:33,430 a cottage, and a farmhouse design. 1757 02:56:33,430 --> 02:56:37,610 and your packet also includes within the precise plan, 1758 02:56:38,230 --> 02:56:43,010 a color materials sheet, identifying the types 1759 02:56:43,010 --> 02:56:46,630 of materials, the roofing material will, of course, 1760 02:56:46,790 --> 02:56:49,690 be all light concrete tile roofing, 1761 02:56:50,030 --> 02:56:54,910 the cottage elevation features brick sighting, 1762 02:56:56,070 --> 02:56:58,190 the farmhouse features, 1763 02:57:01,860 --> 02:57:09,560 faux wood sighting, or it's kind of a board and baton type of sighting, the entry door. 1764 02:57:10,720 --> 02:57:15,700 It has different colors, of course, throughout the various elevations. 1765 02:57:16,740 --> 02:57:24,180 There are different roof colors as well to match the exterior colors of the home and 1766 02:57:24,180 --> 02:57:33,100 the trim as well, modern Prairie elevation features the stone veneer, as well as light concrete 1767 02:57:33,100 --> 02:57:44,220 tile riffing, horizontal sighting, and Steko, just colored Steko exterior, on all three 1768 02:57:44,220 --> 02:57:45,020 of the elevation. 1769 02:57:50,400 --> 02:57:55,320 This is a view of the landscape plan. So the landscaping does have to 1770 02:57:55,320 --> 02:57:59,660 comply with the city's landscape design guidelines, the city's residential landscape design 1771 02:57:59,660 --> 02:58:07,420 guidelines which essentially feature front yard landscaping that's drought tolerant 1772 02:58:07,420 --> 02:58:16,460 per the state of California requirements include shade trees and within the density 1773 02:58:16,460 --> 02:58:23,340 or it exceeds me within the water detention basin on Lot B, the applicant is proposing 1774 02:58:23,340 --> 02:58:30,700 outside of the tension basin, a barbecue area for the residents. It would also be a kind 1775 02:58:30,700 --> 02:58:39,460 of a passive green space there on Lot B for the residents to utilize. Some of the street improvements 1776 02:58:39,460 --> 02:58:44,500 are part of the street improvements along Garrett's and Avenue are going to be that the applicant 1777 02:58:44,500 --> 02:58:53,440 and provide full improvements, which includes sidewalk landscape parkway as well as a landscape buffer 1778 02:58:53,440 --> 02:59:00,820 between the parcels, the three parcels within the track and the sidewalk. 1779 02:59:03,790 --> 02:59:12,810 The plan also features a stamped entry, stamped and stained entry areas or driveways within the private street. 1780 02:59:12,810 --> 02:59:22,990 and let's see if I have within the, oh, I didn't, okay, it was omitted here from our slide, but 1781 02:59:22,990 --> 02:59:29,750 see if I have my pointer works, oops, sorry. I was just going to point out, I think my pointer is 1782 02:59:29,750 --> 02:59:35,630 not working, but I was just going to point out that at the entrances of both private streets, 1783 02:59:36,310 --> 02:59:41,630 there is a low wall. I believe it's the total of, uh, not to exceed two feet thereabouts, 1784 02:59:41,630 --> 02:59:46,110 So it's just an entry name for the, for this particular development. 1785 02:59:47,890 --> 02:59:54,330 But the walls would be all split face around the perimeter, around the interior of the parcels as well. 1786 02:59:54,910 --> 02:59:59,970 And then of course, along Garrett's in Avenue, it would be a decorative wall to match the... 1787 03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:11,380 The wall that's on the south of the, of this particular property, which is the village too wall in the South Carolina Community Facilities Plan. 1788 03:00:12,980 --> 03:00:15,360 I think that was pretty much it. 1789 03:00:17,170 --> 03:00:29,270 Okay, good. Thank you for walking us through that. Again, I'm just one, one thing that came up when you were looking at the landscaping there. 1790 03:00:30,670 --> 03:00:42,650 So, we have the lot B at the front of the complex, which is, I guess, a common area for all the residents, and then we have that other green space in the back. 1791 03:00:42,810 --> 03:00:51,270 But I'm guessing that is essentially the front yard for house number 10. Is that it? 1792 03:00:53,880 --> 03:00:57,720 House number 10 is that the lot that's adjacent to the parcel B? 1793 03:00:57,720 --> 03:01:02,360 though the one at no up in the back corner there the top right corner is 1794 03:01:02,360 --> 03:01:07,980 a house number ten I think okay that is actually yes that is the 1795 03:01:07,980 --> 03:01:11,960 it's a little bit interesting but that's part of the front yard of that lot 1796 03:01:11,960 --> 03:01:16,760 ten so that's not that is enjoyed only by lot ten so that's what I've shared 1797 03:01:16,760 --> 03:01:20,840 green space right that's what I thought 1798 03:01:20,840 --> 03:01:24,980 so they have that one house gets a big big front yard okay 1799 03:01:25,960 --> 03:01:33,040 do we have any questions for that slide up so the retention basin top left corner item 19 so that 1800 03:01:33,040 --> 03:01:38,720 is a clear fried that's a usable area so is it a grass retention area that can be used for 1801 03:01:38,720 --> 03:01:45,160 plain and oh it is okay so it's not just a retention basin and correct it's a multi multi use so if you 1802 03:01:45,160 --> 03:01:51,240 look at the tentative I know it's a tentative track map but on sheet two of the tentative track map there 1803 03:01:51,240 --> 03:01:57,860 is a detail that shows that that detention basin will be underground, so there will be grass 1804 03:01:57,860 --> 03:02:04,940 on the top, and then the actual detention basin is located below the proposed sod. 1805 03:02:06,700 --> 03:02:10,160 And so that's also then that's the main team, the HOA. 1806 03:02:10,160 --> 03:02:10,700 Correct. 1807 03:02:11,660 --> 03:02:12,940 Part semi-park area. 1808 03:02:20,500 --> 03:02:23,860 Miss Lucas, and maybe this is also the applicant. 1809 03:02:25,660 --> 03:02:29,800 you mentioned about the non-standard garage size. 1810 03:02:33,260 --> 03:02:36,400 Why would that not be a requirement instead of 1811 03:02:37,340 --> 03:02:42,260 renaming it? Why wouldn't we stipulate that that be made in official garage? 1812 03:02:44,180 --> 03:02:53,540 You know, it was mentioned previously by Ms. Coleta and the Commission. The code only requires a two-car 1813 03:02:54,280 --> 03:03:02,320 garage. And so, I think while the applicant's intention was good, in terms of calling it 1814 03:03:02,320 --> 03:03:09,320 a tandem parking space or garage, it doesn't meet the code requirements. And the applicant 1815 03:03:10,300 --> 03:03:17,520 did not request a waiver to reduce that. And so, you know, we are essentially just stating 1816 03:03:17,520 --> 03:03:22,120 that they keep it as a storage, because they do have the option of either a tandem or a storage. 1817 03:03:22,120 --> 03:03:26,600 But because they were meeting the minimum code requirements, 1818 03:03:27,620 --> 03:03:31,680 we didn't stipulate that they had to make it a full-sized garage. 1819 03:03:31,860 --> 03:03:35,580 We just notified them that it couldn't be used technically. 1820 03:03:36,020 --> 03:03:38,960 They couldn't use the term tandem garage or tandem part. 1821 03:03:39,460 --> 03:03:42,700 That even means on the assessment, they could not count it as a garage. 1822 03:03:42,780 --> 03:03:43,520 That's correct. 1823 03:03:44,960 --> 03:03:45,820 Thank you. 1824 03:03:55,960 --> 03:03:56,940 Any questions for staff? 1825 03:03:57,280 --> 03:03:57,800 No questions? 1826 03:03:58,380 --> 03:03:58,600 Okay. 1827 03:03:59,400 --> 03:04:07,920 I've had all my questions answered, as well, but actually, so I guess what I was one thing 1828 03:04:07,920 --> 03:04:18,040 I noticed was the three styles of homes for the ex-seriors, and to me, the farmhouse 1829 03:04:18,040 --> 03:04:21,760 style seemed very unusual for what we have in Corona. 1830 03:04:22,240 --> 03:04:28,100 I don't maybe other commissioners, do you recall that seeing that on other developments in 1831 03:04:28,100 --> 03:04:28,680 years. 1832 03:04:32,600 --> 03:04:39,640 Yeah, I don't know. It doesn't matter that much. I think that's just one minor point on 1833 03:04:40,960 --> 03:04:46,420 on this, but I just caught my eye. So I have no further questions for staff and then I guess we will 1834 03:04:46,900 --> 03:04:54,940 have a public hearing. Were there any items specifically? Do we have cards turned in? Or speakers 1835 03:04:54,940 --> 03:04:59,200 who have not turned in cards should make their way to the front to be able to speak about this? 1836 03:05:09,340 --> 03:05:15,880 I could even encounter my name as Tom Cardina Si, live right up against, I live on CL 1837 03:05:15,880 --> 03:05:20,540 Fleming, right up against the project, my only concern that they haven't really discussed 1838 03:05:20,540 --> 03:05:21,940 it is about the fencing, 1839 03:05:24,540 --> 03:05:27,820 what I understand, looking at the plans, it's going to be inside 1840 03:05:27,820 --> 03:05:31,000 the wall that we have, the existing all around the perimeter. 1841 03:05:31,940 --> 03:05:38,460 So we need to look from my side, you can see two walls, which is not going to look good. 1842 03:05:38,460 --> 03:05:43,920 And also, if it's going to be a gap, which I think there is, there could be critters and 1843 03:05:44,580 --> 03:05:53,320 verments or whatever of living in there, and the wall is only going to be six feet tall, and my wall is about five foot four. 1844 03:05:54,000 --> 03:06:00,120 So it's going to be a little bit higher, but it's not going to look, you know, aesthetically look good. 1845 03:06:00,440 --> 03:06:07,820 So I'm proposing if they do put the inside wall, which will look nice, they should remove all the 1846 03:06:07,820 --> 03:06:14,760 all around it. And that way a little look good for everybody and for the neighborhood and 1847 03:06:14,760 --> 03:06:19,600 everybody would like that better. That's all I'd say. And oh, and the wall should be higher 1848 03:06:19,600 --> 03:06:27,320 than six feet. At least I'm my side. There are going to be single story, but maybe at least 1849 03:06:27,320 --> 03:06:32,320 like seven feet, I would say, but it's up to the engineer and them to look at that. 1850 03:06:35,840 --> 03:06:37,800 So that's my 1851 03:06:39,180 --> 03:06:49,060 If I could ask you about the fence, you're your wall, I guess, what is your wall made out of what Masonry and Stucco, or it's block, block. 1852 03:06:50,560 --> 03:06:58,040 So the other option would be if they had an engineer to come out there and maybe build it higher, but I don't know. 1853 03:06:58,380 --> 03:07:03,180 It looks solid, but you have to be engineered, but with what they're proposing. 1854 03:07:03,180 --> 03:07:09,060 if they want to put a wall all the way in the inside and then leave the rest of the existing wall, 1855 03:07:09,320 --> 03:07:15,360 you're going to have two walls for all the residents to look at from that. That's what I'm saying, 1856 03:07:15,820 --> 03:07:22,100 and it should be higher. I'm curious why are they not sharing that wall? Why are the site? 1857 03:07:22,180 --> 03:07:33,160 I mean, the site is at a lower elevation. So this project site is going to be lower than the 1858 03:07:33,160 --> 03:07:36,200 like your property wall should just be matching the existing. 1859 03:07:36,200 --> 03:07:38,400 They should all just be a buddy like we do. 1860 03:07:38,520 --> 03:07:40,820 There's no reason to build two of budding walls. 1861 03:07:45,070 --> 03:07:46,570 So yeah, that's a good point. 1862 03:07:46,730 --> 03:07:47,790 I mean, it's just looking at it. 1863 03:07:48,150 --> 03:07:51,010 I don't know if these were individually developed homes 1864 03:07:51,010 --> 03:07:52,910 or if the joining ones were developed. 1865 03:07:52,910 --> 03:07:55,370 They were, I believe, frame right homes. 1866 03:07:56,010 --> 03:07:57,770 And then they would have been built to the standard 1867 03:07:57,770 --> 03:08:01,390 for the community. 1868 03:08:34,510 --> 03:08:39,450 So Ms. Lopez, do you know, then are there walls already 1869 03:08:39,450 --> 03:08:47,770 then on all three sides of the of the of the project along and fliming along 1870 03:08:50,220 --> 03:08:56,580 twinly freight and then on the north side or of which which about the other house. 1871 03:08:57,740 --> 03:09:02,720 I believe they're they're existing walls along the southern and the eastern property lines 1872 03:09:02,720 --> 03:09:08,780 along the northern property line. I believe I recall seeing chain length fencing. 1873 03:09:08,780 --> 03:09:13,460 Well, there's just, I think the one, one house, maybe. 1874 03:09:17,410 --> 03:09:21,330 Probably pull up the, oh, we didn't have a street view. 1875 03:09:22,710 --> 03:09:31,230 Yeah, I believe the northern part, the northern, the northern property line is just a, 1876 03:09:31,330 --> 03:09:35,850 it's an, if I'm not mistaken, I believe it was part, 1877 03:09:36,970 --> 03:09:39,710 CMU wall, and then chain link, if I'm not mistaken. 1878 03:09:41,700 --> 03:09:50,640 Okay, so I guess specifically on the, it would be more of an issue along the houses on Fleming 1879 03:09:51,840 --> 03:09:59,060 and potentially on Twin Leaf because we don't know the elevation, although it probably goes 1880 03:09:59,860 --> 03:10:02,000 from higher lower as you move more. 1881 03:10:02,080 --> 03:10:11,040 The way that this grading line looks, the project site is going to be lower than the 1882 03:10:11,040 --> 03:10:17,160 So what I would, if you can allow us to do that, really, if there are existing perimeter 1883 03:10:17,160 --> 03:10:21,780 block walls that are already constructed by prior developments, those get to stay in place 1884 03:10:21,780 --> 03:10:27,200 and they get to be utilized along the north property line, if there is no block wall, then 1885 03:10:27,200 --> 03:10:29,880 they will be adding a block wall, which makes sense. 1886 03:10:30,480 --> 03:10:35,060 So let us go back and take a look at that and then it's the side yard walls that will match 1887 03:10:35,060 --> 03:10:36,800 to the existing walls. 1888 03:10:39,610 --> 03:10:42,790 The return walls will match to the perimeter wall. 1889 03:10:42,990 --> 03:10:43,150 Right. 1890 03:10:43,730 --> 03:10:44,290 Okay. 1891 03:10:44,290 --> 03:10:44,930 I understand. 1892 03:10:46,210 --> 03:10:50,490 But these houses are lower, so they do have a sloping condition to wear. 1893 03:10:50,870 --> 03:10:53,550 These paths are going to be lower than the adjacent paths. 1894 03:10:53,730 --> 03:10:54,210 Understood. 1895 03:10:55,370 --> 03:10:55,650 Okay. 1896 03:10:58,310 --> 03:11:04,410 And so then we heard from the one public speaker where there are any other public speakers at this point. 1897 03:11:05,210 --> 03:11:07,210 We have the applicant coming back. 1898 03:11:09,520 --> 03:11:15,060 to just to speak on the walls. So there is no wall on the northern property line. There's some 1899 03:11:15,060 --> 03:11:18,380 chain link fence and then it's open for probably the last two thirds of it, so we'll build 1900 03:11:18,380 --> 03:11:22,920 building you all there. The wall along CL climbing is actually really short on our sides, 1901 03:11:23,060 --> 03:11:26,460 I think you can see right over it, so our proposal is to build that up to a six foot standard. 1902 03:11:26,500 --> 03:11:30,480 I don't think it's at a six foot standard at this point, which is why I think Mr. Cardions is asking 1903 03:11:30,480 --> 03:11:35,560 for a taller wall. So we don't control the property on either sides, so we want to build 1904 03:11:35,560 --> 03:11:42,180 are well inside those areas, a lot of those property owners have landscaping, they also have 1905 03:11:42,180 --> 03:11:46,040 other pictures that are up against those walls that we don't want to mess with when 1906 03:11:46,040 --> 03:11:50,000 it turns out to take them down. So that's why we're proposing the wall solely on our property. 1907 03:11:50,400 --> 03:11:53,780 If those property owners want to take their wall down at that point, it would be totally sound, 1908 03:11:53,820 --> 03:11:57,180 but we don't want to mess or add to an existing wall from the engineering perspective. 1909 03:11:57,580 --> 03:12:01,800 We want to kind of build within our own property line. So if they took their wall down, 1910 03:12:01,800 --> 03:12:06,840 And they'd actually probably get six or 12 inches of extra yard space when they do that, but 1911 03:12:06,840 --> 03:12:07,740 we'll build the wall. 1912 03:12:08,420 --> 03:12:11,820 So there's also, if we're lower, we might have to retain a little bit of that soil. 1913 03:12:12,780 --> 03:12:14,080 So that's why we need to build the walls. 1914 03:12:14,500 --> 03:12:18,780 It would be odd, though, as the public commons stated, to have a gap. 1915 03:12:19,460 --> 03:12:21,640 That's just not a standard practice. 1916 03:12:22,320 --> 03:12:28,480 I think this should be an item that planning that you and planning could work out. 1917 03:12:28,480 --> 03:12:41,440 In the past, we've had, you know, it may make sense for all of the homeowners that are on LCLO to work with you to come up with an agreeable plan, or then have to get all the walls treated, right? 1918 03:12:42,240 --> 03:12:43,860 That's been a normal practice. 1919 03:12:44,420 --> 03:12:57,480 Right, we've had this come up before where we, you know, we're not thrilled with the idea of two walls, whether they're a budding or a gap between it, and it's understandable that the residents are concerned. 1920 03:12:57,480 --> 03:12:58,260 So. Yeah. 1921 03:13:00,620 --> 03:13:03,460 Okay. Anything else we want to know from the applicant, 1922 03:13:03,640 --> 03:13:09,320 Molly's here? No. Okay. Good. Then we will close the public hearing. I guess we 1923 03:13:09,320 --> 03:13:12,000 have another another speaker who would like to speak. 1924 03:13:14,760 --> 03:13:15,600 So we'll keep the public 1925 03:13:15,600 --> 03:13:17,320 hearing open for one more speaker. 1926 03:13:22,660 --> 03:13:26,660 Good evening. Oh, it's a good night now. So I 1927 03:13:26,660 --> 03:13:31,040 live in CL Fleming. My concern is same. We are both neighbors and our 1928 03:13:31,040 --> 03:13:36,420 in the same like if they're making up we already have a wall it's like just this 1929 03:13:36,420 --> 03:13:41,160 height it's not that tall but if we have a tall wall then we have two walls yeah 1930 03:13:41,160 --> 03:13:45,740 and that wall is now it's a block wall but I don't think it's that strong to build a 1931 03:13:45,740 --> 03:13:49,680 wall on top of that and like he's saying that he's gonna build up a wall and then 1932 03:13:49,680 --> 03:13:55,120 we can take around that's more money for me to put that on to call somebody to take 1933 03:13:55,120 --> 03:13:59,220 that we all down, because aesthetically, it's not going to look good. 1934 03:14:00,780 --> 03:14:06,820 And those houses at sea of Fleming are mostly the houses that has all the view of the mountains. 1935 03:14:07,480 --> 03:14:11,460 So we are already losing the view, but now we have to look at two walls. 1936 03:14:13,060 --> 03:14:14,020 So that's what we're concerned. 1937 03:14:15,540 --> 03:14:16,000 Thank you. 1938 03:14:16,380 --> 03:14:16,640 Good. 1939 03:14:16,840 --> 03:14:18,080 Thank you. 1940 03:14:18,820 --> 03:14:19,040 All right. 1941 03:14:19,120 --> 03:14:20,700 So we will close the public hearing. 1942 03:14:20,700 --> 03:14:22,740 Okay, no. 1943 03:14:28,800 --> 03:14:29,880 Are you in the seeker? 1944 03:14:30,720 --> 03:14:31,780 I'm on Twin Leaf. 1945 03:14:32,640 --> 03:14:38,440 Our block wall goes up from the base about this high. 1946 03:14:39,260 --> 03:14:40,940 And that's where their properties at, 1947 03:14:40,960 --> 03:14:42,100 and it goes up six feet. 1948 03:14:43,100 --> 03:14:46,300 I wouldn't mind sharing my wall with the developer. 1949 03:14:46,960 --> 03:14:48,600 I really don't want space in between, 1950 03:14:48,740 --> 03:14:51,840 because there is a ton of critters coming off that field. 1951 03:14:52,300 --> 03:14:54,680 And once you give them space in a place to live, 1952 03:14:54,680 --> 03:14:58,980 you're never going to get rid of it. So just share my wall. 1953 03:15:01,440 --> 03:15:07,060 And I think my other neighbors might feel the same way, but you have to check that out. Okay. 1954 03:15:07,640 --> 03:15:09,340 Okay. Thank you. 1955 03:15:12,220 --> 03:15:17,900 All right. I think everybody's spoken. Who's still remaining? So we will close the public hearing. 1956 03:15:18,620 --> 03:15:22,760 And then let's talk about it here. The issue of the walls. 1957 03:15:23,780 --> 03:15:37,200 I mean, I mean, maybe there's a way to have the developer work with the neighbors to connect their walls to their brand new wall or something like that. I don't know, it's throwing that out. 1958 03:15:39,040 --> 03:15:52,280 Yeah, I think that's appropriate. I think that I don't even know if it needs to be a condition of approval, but I just think it should be a watch out, as we've done in the past that the developer needs to directly work with every single neighbor that they're adjoining. 1959 03:15:52,980 --> 03:16:00,820 and to develop a plan at developers cost to address those concerns. 1960 03:16:05,630 --> 03:16:09,870 All right, Ms. Collette, is that enough for you? 1961 03:16:13,180 --> 03:16:19,660 And then do we make the motion that, as is, that doesn't need any further that can be handled by staff? 1962 03:16:20,040 --> 03:16:22,300 Or do we need any some conditions? 1963 03:16:22,320 --> 03:16:24,280 I just want to add it as a condition. 1964 03:16:24,280 --> 03:16:28,740 and then you can make that motion with the condition or if you're giving us that information. 1965 03:16:30,760 --> 03:16:39,000 All offer a motion to approve the precise plan in 2023-09, but the condition that a 1966 03:16:39,000 --> 03:16:45,760 a minimal agreement between the developer and all the joining neighbors in Twin Leaf and I think 1967 03:16:45,760 --> 03:16:54,120 you said LCLO or C L Fleming? Yes, C L Fleming that it is a reasonable plan. 1968 03:16:54,480 --> 03:16:59,400 I was like it. Okay, we have a motion that's been seconded in and we will vote. 1969 03:17:07,230 --> 03:17:08,070 Okay, motion passes. 1970 03:17:08,990 --> 03:17:16,770 So that, that is all of our public hearings for the night, miss, 1971 03:17:21,870 --> 03:17:25,310 have we received any, have 1972 03:17:28,580 --> 03:17:35,100 we received any written communications from persons providing information or seeking action from the planning and housing commission? 1973 03:17:36,480 --> 03:17:38,300 We have not sure, Woody. Okay. 1974 03:17:38,300 --> 03:17:40,820 Um, um, they're in, uh, 1975 03:17:41,960 --> 03:17:44,460 this miscola to have anything else to share with us tonight. 1976 03:17:44,840 --> 03:17:45,640 No other items. 1977 03:17:46,440 --> 03:17:50,060 All right. Anything from other commissioners or myself? 1978 03:17:50,640 --> 03:17:50,820 No. 1979 03:17:52,160 --> 03:17:53,440 Okay. Well, then, uh, 1980 03:17:54,320 --> 03:18:00,600 with that, we will be adjourned. Our next planning housing commission scheduled for Monday, September 9th. 1981 03:18:01,320 --> 03:18:01,700 Let's all.