and got a relatively short agenda, but
there's
going to some
I don't know if you got a chance to take
a look at this, but going over this and
just making This wording is absolutely
because this will go to the council and
the city manager set up a meeting for uh
>> Can you pull the microphone a little
» Can you pull the microphone a little
closer so you're picked up?
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> For set up a meeting for January. It's
» For set up a meeting for January. It's
Thursday, January 22nd, right?
>> And that's when we will take a work plan
» And that's when we will take a work plan
to the city council and do a brief
presentation and There will be a
discussion at that time. U so anyway
uh I'm going to actually uh delay I
think we should delay the approval of
the minutes because that's we need to go
over that and make sure that wording is
exactly what we want it to be before we
approve that. So I'll jump right to item
two, the start meeting update. U there's
a general meeting on Wednesday that
anybody can uh zoom into
and I don't really I haven't
received the agenda yet. Did you
>> I thought it was tonight.
» I thought it was tonight.
>> Well, yeah, there's a policy
» Well, yeah, there's a policy
>> policy tonight.
» policy tonight.
>> There's a noise working group tonight.
» There's a noise working group tonight.
>> Tonight and then the regular meeting is
» Tonight and then the regular meeting is
Wednesday.
>> Wednesday. Yeah.
» Wednesday. Yeah.
>> And what were time six?
» And what were time six?
>> Uh it's the same time.
» Uh it's the same time.
Yeah. Five.
>> Okay. And uh so uh the only um
» Okay. And uh so uh the only um
the anything from the start is just
basically uh uh the reports they are
putting out on their their regular
reports they put out. So I don't really
have anything new. U the SAMP update is
uh I don't know if any of you saw the
lead story in the times.
>> Oh yes,
» Oh yes,
>> but that was
» but that was
>> that was a pretty good article on
» that was a pretty good article on
summarize things.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
So that's where that's at the city and
three you know the last time we talked
about the ILA between CAC and
Mo and apparently that all was signed
sealed and delivered and
the lawyers got the appeal in on time.
>> So that's rolling along. I don't but
» So that's rolling along. I don't but
it's probably a pretty long process.
>> Um
» Um
takeaway I got from that u
is
and Jeff you got it Jeff it's basically
u hey folks uh we have to build the we
have to accommodate rising demand period
and we start with that and if you guys
don't go along with it that's kind of
too bad but we have to do it anyway.
Yeah, I and and the demand will be here.
That's kind of a given. And and the FAA,
I'm sorry, and the FAA uh requirements
um are given.
So then somehow we have to make the case
that we're disproportionately impacted.
» Well, it'll be an interesting
discussion.
I uh
I I
going through that article and just
taking a few notes just seemed to me
like
often in process in a process like this
on a number
of
>> the real thing. Yeah. Yeah.
» the real thing. Yeah. Yeah.
>> That's right.
» That's right.
I think I think that's one of the first
questions I'd like to
get an answer to is where did the number
come from where did
they came by 2032
>> 56 yeah we're 52 million it'll be 56
» 56 yeah we're 52 million it'll be 56
million in two more years in 2030 yeah
>> where did they get that
it has to be some way population growth
I would imagine
>> they've done I mean I've seen studies
» they've done I mean I've seen studies
done that just kind of blly extrapolate
without taking into consideration
hiccups like COVID and other things that
can occur you know I think they've taken
the um trend line tried to extend it um
as best they could from population
growth which is probably somewhat
predictable based on economy but the uh
number of associated increase in flights
is a little more difficult uh to um uh
really uh get a handle on and it's kind
of a slow role as u new perhaps
technology and and the new taxi way
implementation additional gates and all
that kind of stuff and I think that um
they're going to explore where they can
move capacity up but you know that
number is harder to get to um and is not
going to increase at the same
as the estimated population. So you kind
of wonder where it's going to fall in.
But whatever is going to happen, we are
looking at larger numbers in the area of
maybe 10% or perhaps more. Um
not too far.
When I was reading that, I was sort of
thinking about you
because it occurred to me that I mean
there's only
if you're going to
million people
through the building. That's just
the other side.
It seems to me like the only way you're
going to get more people more people in
that airport
take off landing or you have to have
more land. Well, there going to be more
takeoff and landings. I don't think
they're going to have I don't think the
planes are going to change much, but you
will see uh if they can get if they can
get their planes off the runways on off
the runways more efficiently um and do
it safely andor reduce separation due to
turbulence and uh utilize uh parallel
runways um mixed approaches uh more
effectively.
>> Uh you know, nextG is coming. Uh the FA
» Uh you know, nextG is coming. Uh the FA
is well funded to uh continue to move on
with that.
It's not a direct relationship between
technology. Now, there's some
limitations there, but uh yeah, there's
going to definitely be an increase um
for sure. And you can see when they
really hit it and they were able to use
all their runways effectively parallel
or staggered, uh they can increase their
numbers up to um you know, they can run
as many as
one every 60 seconds, one every 45
seconds when they're hitting it hard.
and um and they want to and if they use
all their runways, they can really move
that number up a little bit.
>> But am I wrong to say that it is
» But am I wrong to say that it is
contingent on completion of the next gen
» which they have? It sounded like that
wasn't wholly in place yet. Uh yeah,
NextGen has a has a long history of
improvements. Uh but some of the taxiway
improvements that are in SAMP right now
are critical to getting the uh aircraft
off the runway more quickly.
>> Um and they don't they don't have that
» Um and they don't they don't have that
capacity right now. They have to run to
the ends and that slows things down.
They have to cross. Those new taxiways
are really the key, one of the key
components to getting those uh planes
off effectively, efficiently. Plus more
open gates so there's no delays. They
get right to the gate. They have to wait
in gates. backs up. They slow things
down. They will slow things down.
The other thing that occurred to me
was
the airlines
and I don't why is
Of course, one of our big issues is
but isn't it again it doesn't I can't
imagine that the airlines want to we're
going to absorb
four more people million more people I
don't think they want to tell them oh
yeah
» well a lot of that is union contracts
too that that
>> [snorts]
» [snorts]
>> set that time frame.
» set that time frame.
>> Sure. Yeah.
» Sure. Yeah.
So,
what we're really saying is that most of
those additional operations are going to
come,
which I guess is probably good for us,
but is it even possible?
>> Well, they're not up to capacity now.
» Well, they're not up to capacity now.
The runway is going to take more planes.
Uh, so they certainly can run. Imagine
if they could run uh um just maybe 10
more planes um in um you know they're
looking at trying to get the number of
flights up late night flights um not
changing very much. If you look at the
numbers in the studies that's not going
to change too much. Um and we need to
ensure that that they maintain that um
strategy. Uh that's important um as a
remedy and um and then uh they can up
the number of flights uh per hour. So
they're trying to get like you know
maybe up to a hundred more flights per
day that will make that that will that
will hit those estimates. 100 flights
per day you're talking about you know a
few more per hour uh which is several
more you know you know you take another
every 15 seconds you might get another
flight in. Um and so run on some run
some parallel approaches, staggered
approaches, mix, you know, when they fly
when we're in north flow, we have a lot
of south flow landings and takeoffs. Um
they're if they can effectively make all
that work for them, um they can up that
number of flights, but um um and so it's
all quite doable. Um whether you can
accommodate, you know, 20 more million
people is kind of a big question mark to
me. Um but um but they can to hit that
curve. you know, um I'm hoping that the
remedy as we look through the um uh
environmental studies that the remedies,
and everybody kind of knows my take, the
remedy is that we um uh do not allow
more flights, that we leave everything
um in the way and make it no worse, do
no more harm until we have solid studies
on sound um uh pollution, health effects
um that can be um highly um uh that are
that are based on scientific evidence
that if that it's not going to create
more harm for the community. And until
that's done, we should not be increasing
flights any more flights. Um and that
would be um that would be a remedy.
You'll note that, you know, we're
starting this starting these um uh
appeals, but there were no remedies in
any of the documents that I saw. Um so
I'm hoping to provide feedback. The
remedy you would you would advocate is
is no more
>> do more do no more harm, right?
» do more do no more harm, right?
>> Yeah. I think let's
» Yeah. I think let's
>> if you want to build a new terminal, be
» if you want to build a new terminal, be
my guest.
>> Prove that it's not going to harm folks
» Prove that it's not going to harm folks
healthwise.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Um anymore.
» Um anymore.
>> Is there any is there any usefulness in
» Is there any is there any usefulness in
asking the question,
is it even necessary?
I mean, if
if it's dependent if that extra 100
flights a day is dependent on the next
gen being completed
and we really you say it's well but
given the circumstances we have right
now the fact that any reasonable person
could look at that and say regardless of
who's in charge there's still going to
be problems
can we count on nextg being done
at the time when all these come online.
>> Well, NextGen's already well deep into,
» Well, NextGen's already well deep into,
you know, maturity. So, um I they've
already they've already reduced
separation standards. Um they've already
um uh they're putting new surface
surveillance system and CATX has some of
the best around uh that allow them to uh
really tighten up the number of flights
and um but wake turbulence distances
still need to be maintained. You can't
fix and change that. Um but they can get
the um flow metrics uh really precise.
>> Well, let me sharpen up the question
» Well, let me sharpen up the question
right now. Sometimes
brushing my teeth and I can look out
and I see two airplanes. [clears throat]
I look at it.
» When am I going to be looking out there
and see?
you know, they are um they are
authorized for triple approaches. Um
they don't do it very often because it's
hard to get the planes off the runway,
all three of them off the runway at the
same time. So, they can't really hit
that fast. But in the summertime, you'll
note that when it's really good weather,
uh the winds are light uh to none. Um
they um they have done triple
approaches. If you look at the data,
they've done triple approaches before,
so it does happen. Or or the two and
then one staggered behind it. You'll see
that happen. Um the mix though is you
can have planes coming and when they're
really hitting it, they can land north
and south at the same time and just
stagger them in um as best they can. And
when they get these new taxi ways in, I
think they're going to explore how to do
that more effectively. So um you know,
>> so they could do a lot of these
» so they could do a lot of these
improvements they [clears throat] could
go ahead and do. They could put in
>> they don't need nextg right now. I mean,
» they don't need nextg right now. I mean,
>> yeah, they could do the additional taxi
» yeah, they could do the additional taxi
rays and and they have the land and they
could even start on the new terminal. um
which would alleviate because how many
times I mean I you get in there I mean I
so last week I I date down and back to
San Jose I'm in the new D terminal and
go down there and I go this is odd and
guess what we hopped on a bus when and I
go really you know and and uh what is
yeah and and then um
and then down in San Jose was
interesting we were the last flight out
now I realized they have other airports
in the area was 5:00 p.m. in the in the
second terminal. We were the last that
was that was it. I would have taken a
7:00 flight home. If it was at 7, they
rush back and to get on that 5:00 flight
and then done.
>> That's it.
» That's it.
Um uh so I think we have a um
a pretty big challenge um in trying to
maintain um a remedy like no more
flights or slot that slot system at
other airports use it that don't allow
any more flights. It's a hard hard
number. We don't CAC does not have a
hard number.
>> Why can't we that's what we're here for
» Why can't we that's what we're here for
and you certainly I mean as a as one
remedy
>> it sounds like the message is that this
» it sounds like the message is that this
isn't something that's out
what I'm hearing you say this isn't out
in the future you know. Oh, no. They
>> This is stuff they do right now.
» This is stuff they do right now.
Something. So,
>> yeah. I mean, look at look at the
» yeah. I mean, look at look at the
summertime. I mean, they're really
hitting it. I've counted planes coming
every 45 seconds. I mean, they are
really hitting. Absolutely.
>> Um and and running up, you know, to you
» Um and and running up, you know, to you
know, over 2,000 flights a day,
something like that. Um and they can
really hit it hard. Uh when things are
just running well, you just hope for bad
weather all the time. And I will always
keep it nice and slow. [laughter]
>> So, half the year we're Okay. If we're
» So, half the year we're Okay. If we're
out in front of the public talking to
our citizens, then the message is this
is something that's
now
future. This is what they're planning to
do sometimes.
This is going to start with
» Yes, I think we need to do something
now. Um and um and hopefully um as it'd
be interesting to hear how the lawyers
think of a strategy and work the
strategy strategic issues once they um
once they be because I think they kind
of know what's coming. I think you can
pretty much understand what going to be
in the EIS's um and start talking about
what some of those remedies may be.
There are certainly other things that we
want to take care of trees and noise
abatement um and funding for all those
things
>> and reduce it but but not reducing the
» and reduce it but but not reducing the
number of flights but keeping it the
same um and do no more harm. Seems like
a a good, you know, that would be a good
goal to
>> Well, and they're talking about traffic.
» Well, and they're talking about traffic.
So, if one of their improvements is um
additional employee parking, plus you
you do have the light rail now that goes
all the way down to Federal Way. So,
that's a mitigation.
>> Mitigating that, right? Traffic is being
» Mitigating that, right? Traffic is being
mitigated. And so I'm not a traffic
expert, but it seems like some of these
mitigations are being [snorts]
addressed. Increased traffic. Um, you
know, what's not being addressed is
increased, you know, air traffic.
>> Yeah. But I like your point, Joe, that
» Yeah. But I like your point, Joe, that
uh do we really know where these
the the additional
demand is because gosh, how many
airports have we all been to where all
of a sudden the hub goes away? You know,
have you ever been out to Louisville?
That was where um some I can't remember
who was originally anchored there or St.
Louis you know just tons of capacity
empty airports um you know compared to
what we got here
>> well one of the
» well one of the
>> but it could change
» but it could change
>> I think when I when I first started with
» I think when I when I first started with
start there was an representative at the
general meetings
>> okay
» okay
>> maybe even
» maybe even
not so policy but I don't see airport
theory
and I think one of the the key things
and and I don't even know
how this is how you would even get the
number but I imagine that in the
boardroom someplace when they're you
know Alaska Airlines here you know how
many seats are we going to dedicate to
this airport whether they're talking
about Oakland or SeaTac or or
Juno or whatever. He said, "How many
seats do we need
uh in that market area to suck up all
you know to absorb all the demand?"
>> But I there there has to be some
» But I there there has to be some
connection there between
um
what the airlines are
>> asking for.
» asking for.
>> Asking for exactly that's the word I'm
» Asking for exactly that's the word I'm
what are they asking? Uh and and I've
never it would be nice to be able to ask
that question.
Is there a line outside your door from
the airlines asking, you know, waiting,
you know, demanding more
operations at CTAC airport?
>> I I wouldn't be surprised because just
» I I wouldn't be surprised because just
anecdotally traveling a lot for business
and and for family and stuff, I mean, I
fly Alaska exclusively. Every single
flight is full.
>> Yeah, our planes are packed. Not not
» Yeah, our planes are packed. Not not
even not not even just to like you know
like I couple weeks ago to Atlanta you
know where they only have like two
flights a day but even back last month I
flew directly uh to Oklahoma City right
>> full
» full
>> you know even to a smaller city to
» you know even to a smaller city to
Oklahoma City
>> I know right
» I know right
>> you get off the plane and you start
» you get off the plane and you start
wandering around Oklahoma City and
there's no one there's like why was this
plane so full
>> but um
» but um
>> well in southwest when I was in Chicago
» well in southwest when I was in Chicago
I always flew southwest And it was
always I mean they got it really down.
They were packed. And you're right about
uh um midweek to San Jose where I mean
why are we you know it was a full I I
would I would think that I think that
the demand is there. You can just tell
by the number of folks moving through
the system. Um and if you require with
the airlines they're going to say yeah
and we want to fly more core hours too.
Um, you know, they they probably do
prefer to fly um uh as soon as more
approaches, get those planes filled up
and um and run.
>> But it would be but it would be
» But it would be but it would be
interesting to look at Delta and Alaska
and and kind of get under go behind the
numbers and see really is this how this
is being done and then the Hawaii
merger. You know,
>> I think there's a reason why they don't
» I think there's a reason why they don't
show up to meetings. They're not going
to tell you those numbers. Yeah,
>> they may not feel they have much to add
» they may not feel they have much to add
to the conversation starting
control like they're trying to increase
capacity, but I feel like
>> you mean a number of controllers.
» you mean a number of controllers.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Oh, sure. That's a problem.
» Oh, sure. That's a problem.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. But that's a fix. That's that's
» Yeah. But that's a fix. That's that's
that is and that has caused a number of
delays, right? Um you know, and it does
I'm sure that affects capacity too. The
number flights that You only have so
many controllers. You can't handle as
many flights.
» But if you follow, you know, you're
exactly right. And so we're in a we're
kind of in a a period of time where
they're really struggling, but um
there's a big plan to hire train um
that's massively coming on. You can see
that. And again, the Pearson is very
well funded in the current government
situation. one of the few government
agencies that are you can if you read uh
carefully you'll see they're buying an
enormous amount of technology new
technology the complaints always been
there telecommunications is old some of
the equipment is quite old reliable but
old um and uh they plan on fixing all
that so there's going to be a lot of
ability to get get out of that problem
not enough control
>> so is that the fall
equipment failed. is that was a tele
that was that was a telecommunication
problem um with the uh with the
providers
um not the FAA equipment but the
providers of the intercommunication
systems um that's extremely complex
right you got satellites you got fiber
lines and you got it goes through all
sorts of cities and it got tangled up um
um but they're they're trying to redo
all that with more redundancy so um that
should be getting better so I think all
the all the things are in place to
support um um you know more um capacity
a more efficient um operation if they
can. So our again we are challenged to
um
>> so what we can do keep that down.
» so what we can do keep that down.
>> Do we want to we need to pass this
» Do we want to we need to pass this
>> let's hit one more let's is there any
» let's hit one more let's is there any
more discussion on the samp here?
>> Well I handed out a flyer that I made
» Well I handed out a flyer that I made
that talks about the process between the
NEPA and TIFA. Um, it includes dates
that went to council and things like
that just so that if you're aware if you
wanted to be aware of
>> the stuff in the past and expected
» the stuff in the past and expected
dates, but I just put those together and
wanted to provide it for you if you have
any questions. I'm happy to
>> answer any.
» answer any.
>> Okay. So, everybody can take a look at
» Okay. So, everybody can take a look at
those. Uh, we have some uh
complaints
here. Frankly, I didn't get a chance to
take a look at these. Is there anything
Was there anything in here that we
>> So, the new part in here includes the
» So, the new part in here includes the
what you guys had talked about a draft
response to the complaints and that's on
the second page.
>> All right.
» All right.
>> Um, so that one's got includes a a kind
» Um, so that one's got includes a a kind
of a generic
>> response that we can't if if you guys
» response that we can't if if you guys
want us to when you guys get emails that
um we can respond for general. Thank you
for reaching out. Um
>> yeah, I wrote this up. Um Yep. Yeah. And
» yeah, I wrote this up. Um Yep. Yeah. And
so, um and uh you know, was
without a tremendous amount of thought.
Uh [laughter]
um well, because I I I really wanted the
group here to um help me uh get the
right words um and um with the right uh
type of feedback. I mean, we can and I I
think attached to this is also um an
analysis of one of Mrs. Hugh's um Miss
Hughes um issues and again she had a
second email um that she had and she is
um you know zealous
>> um and is concerned
» um and is concerned
>> planes I mean the the whether they take
» planes I mean the the whether they take
off or land is is a wind issue and it
happens both ways. I mean she sounded
like they only land
>> Yeah. I don't think she appreciates that
» Yeah. I don't think she appreciates that
they can run a dual operation, north and
south flow. Um um in terms of landing
and takeoffs, um it's not just if the
winds uh you know southerntherly,
they're not just going to do south flow,
they'll include north flow as well. Um
and I think she's I think she um
observes some of that. Um and then I did
an analysis of the w high winds and when
they would change flows and they're
changing every time the wind is hitting
it. So, it's it's not like the FAA is
not doing what they um probably need to
do to keep the operation safe and
efficient. Um, but she makes some she
makes some comments about um about the
um night flights where she's concerned.
Um and that's an area we can continue to
focus on. And then there aren't that
many night flights though. Night flights
do seem to all contained um running to
the quiet quiet skies initiative.
>> One to five.
» One to five.
>> Yeah, it's it's quite low. Um and Um,
» Yeah, it's it's quite low. Um and Um,
and I don't um I don't see many um if
any um you know increase in that after
little bit after midnight and then
pretty then it really drops down.
>> No, you're right. It drops down by 1 in
» No, you're right. It drops down by 1 in
the morning. It's really quiet until 5.
But after between five and six, man,
they start spinning up like crazy and it
you'll you'll hear them, right? And
they'll start running full capacity
wherever they can get to get the day
going.
Um, so, uh, I do think it's a good idea
to provide some feedback for folks that
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> um, that mail in and get get these get
» um, that mail in and get get these get
our residents to get their complaints to
the right organization.
Go to the site that I mentioned. You can
actually pick out the plane that's
annoying you and um, and and I could do
some additional work around some of the
complaints. Um, we'll see what comes in
to see if there's any value to that.
>> Okay. So the immediate question for the
» Okay. So the immediate question for the
group is uh
the form letter. Are we okay with the
form letter
>> with the three points?
» Are you talking about that or are you
talking about Jeff's form?
>> This is the email response to the
» This is the email response to the
concern.
>> Oh yeah.
» Oh yeah.
>> Um if you'll read that over. Um you know
» Um if you'll read that over. Um you know
I really wanted your words. I don't want
to want to
>> I'm speaking pretty much myself here but
» I'm speaking pretty much myself here but
um it's pretty generic, right?
>> It is. It's generic. Yeah, I didn't see
» It is. It's generic. Yeah, I didn't see
anything offending here.
>> You know, it
» You know, it
make sure that our residents know that
we are concerned, we're paying
attention. Um, and get them to the right
folks to to
>> So, what is what is the noise program
» So, what is what is the noise program
office do other than just send them a
thing? Thank you. We
>> Well, the noise the noise pro it's not
» Well, the noise the noise pro it's not
the noise program. the um the FAA and
the um uh and the um
uh primarily the FAA, Port of Seattle,
they both have they both have websites
where you can make complaints um
officially and you can get official
responses back um on significant
concerns about noise particularly if you
identify flight numbers and all that
kind of stuff and they will uh respond.
Uh it takes a really long time for them
to respond. I don't think it's been
satisfactory to the residents the type
of response they get, but that's the
official place to go and um you know, we
shouldn't be issuing official responses
for for those organizations.
>> No.
» No.
>> And I'm sure Miss Hughes is not going to
» And I'm sure Miss Hughes is not going to
be satisfied with whatever answer she
gets because they're not they're going
to tell her.
>> Yeah. Right.
» Yeah. Right.
>> You know,
» You know,
>> it's loud. It's absolut It's certainly
» it's loud. It's absolut It's certainly
loud over her house and there are
certainly many planes flying over house
and I think she notes when the wind
changes you definitely get a different
mix of aircraft. Um and she's closer to
um the outer let's see is it the outer
runway? Um yeah the outer runway. So
when they're running a mix configuration
particularly when she thinks everything
should be going um on um on north flow
they may be doing um takeoffs on that
runway as well which is which is really
loud. Right. When you're in three miles
takeoffs are the most loud. Outside
three miles it's a little quieter
because they get up and they they are
getting up fast. Um um but in in close
six miles out they're on final approach.
They're 3,000 ft and going down. So it's
and it's pretty noisy as they get in
within three miles on landing. That's
that's the rough part for the people
that live south.
>> So So Jeff, you wrote her the I mean you
» So So Jeff, you wrote her the I mean you
prepared this. I mean this goes on and
on. This is very thorough.
>> Yeah. I actually did a detailed analysis
» Yeah. I actually did a detailed analysis
of of u misuse um uh concerns. Um, and
then I wrote uh in red what my uh what
my responses were and um and we don't
need to go into details here.
>> No, but I can if you guys are good I can
» No, but I can if you guys are good I can
send this to her and I can even say it
was put together by a committee member.
That way it's not official city.
>> Yeah, we should just make sure that we
» Yeah, we should just make sure that we
that it is not an official response.
This is a
>> these are our concerns and and it
» these are our concerns and and it
doesn't address
>> we don't need a formal motion or
» we don't need a formal motion or
anything like that.
No, I just wanted to make sure you guys
were okay with the form letter that he
put together that when I get a
complaint, I'll respond with this and
then we'll still forward you all the
emails that come to you. Anyways,
>> we can look flip them over and get a
» we can look flip them over and get a
sense of what's going on and do more
with them or
>> and the first two pages are obviously
» and the first two pages are obviously
the ones you did get forwarded. So,
that's all that's in the packet there.
>> So, for the next few minutes,
» So, for the next few minutes,
>> thank you.
» thank you.
>> We have here
» We have here
>> um we've got on the back of our here's
» um we've got on the back of our here's
the uh the write up of discussion from
last uh last last meeting. So I want to
make sure before this uh goes to council
that this is what we want to say. So
I'll let's open up the discussion.
Give me your thoughts,
concerns.
I mean
>> I think it's great.
Do we need to add anything?
» Greg Miller,
>> I think you guys talked about doing a
» I think you guys talked about doing a
survey and that and you guys are talking
a lot about engaging with citizens and
that's a very small part of this. So if
you guys want to discuss that and have
council formally approve that, you'll
want to include that in your work plan.
>> And Joe, how did your discussion go with
» And Joe, how did your discussion go with
um who did you have a chance to speak to
them about putting on some sort of
public discussion.
>> Yes, I talked to Captain Let me give you
» Yes, I talked to Captain Let me give you
the update on that.
>> Great. Yeah, we uh generally u thought
» Great. Yeah, we uh generally u thought
it was a a good idea, but there are some
steps that we have to still take and
that's one. Uh there's there'll be
questions about the open public meeting,
how that fits into a citizens or if it
applies. So,
there will be again she wants talked to
the council. I think she's actually
talked to the council about maybe
discussing all the citizens advisor
groups
>> and creating a set of you know
» and creating a set of you know
guidelines
>> operating procedures.
» operating procedures.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And and personally I I do
» Yeah. Yeah. And and personally I I do
have a problem with this being a public
facing group. I do not think we should
be a public facing group.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> So
» So
>> so so that's um
» so so that's um
>> Yeah. So, um I um you know there are
» Yeah. So, um I um you know there are
some certainly some really good points
to it where the public gets a chance to
speak to folks that and um perhaps more
openly from the official folks could say
what's uh within their domain probably
officially.
>> Steve, what if we if we had something
» Steve, what if we if we had something
was a I mean we we maybe every other
meeting we
>> Well, I just think I I don't know how
» Well, I just think I I don't know how
productive it's going to be. I think
we're going to get a lot of people and
like I was telling Joe, it's going to
turn into a gripe
>> Yeah. Yeah.
» Yeah. Yeah.
>> session. I used
» session. I used
>> I used I used a different word than
» I used I used a different word than
that. Um but um and we're going to get
the we're going to get people in. It's
like the the lizard people run the FAA
and it gave me brain cancer, right?
>> You know, and I I have a feeling that's
» You know, and I I have a feeling that's
what it's going to devolve into. I I
think if we do a public-f facing
meeting, it has to be something very
specific or we go out to groups who are
already engaged. You know, civic groups
like Rotary or something that are
already engaged in the community. But
>> this is a public facing meeting. We just
» this is a public facing meeting. We just
don't have a public comment section in
the agenda. It's open to the public.
>> I know, but there's not like this, you
» I know, but there's not like this, you
know, here here's all of our here's all
of our complaints, right? But do you
think that um it would add value for the
residents to feel as if they have a a
forum where they can at least speak? Um
>> not not when we we can't show immediate
» not not when we we can't show immediate
responses to them. They're going to say,
"Oh, I come to the meeting all the time
and I complain and I don't get
>> we have to make sure the focus is around
» we have to make sure the focus is around
information um dissemination of things
that we know and understand. maybe some
basic education about um some pollution
issues and noise issues um in general
terms um and level of field there and
they can give feedback but when they do
have specific complaints I do think it
can I do think your concerns are very
well justified. We have to find a way to
avoid that by having themes for the
particular meetings I think very clearly
um and lay out some really general
guidelines but that is a concern.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Well okay for for the discussion let's
» Well okay for for the discussion let's
Is that one of our should that be on our
list of things we might want to provide
here as
>> yeah this is working for let's go to say
» yeah this is working for let's go to say
maybe to the other end where we are not
facing group it's just council considers
us we are the citizens
>> we are the citizens
» we are the citizens
>> citizen advisories and our charge is to
» citizen advisories and our charge is to
sit here and discuss this like we do and
come up with
I'm trying to look the right word. It's
almost like a position paper or you know
your citizens all five of us think that
the city should
>> whatever.
» whatever.
>> Yeah. I I look at it as
» Yeah. I I look at it as
>> and we forward that to the city council
» and we forward that to the city council
and they look at
>> or hear from the residents. I want to
» or hear from the residents. I want to
hear for that's why the survey perhaps
these public meetings gives us more um
engagement with the community so we have
um a wider field of view for their
concerns which we can um um distill into
some some some additional policy
guidance to
>> Yeah. I I just think with us we're not
» Yeah. I I just think with us we're not
the council we're not public employees
>> that that feedback needs to be going
» that that feedback needs to be going
through the council and not through
someone. I I guess when what when I
think about our group is that we're
we're going through the SAMP and we're
going through all this stuff and saying,
"Hey, city council, do you know this?"
And the city council needs to be showing
us leadership and saying, "Hey, we need
you all to delve into this. We don't
fully understand this, right?" And and
you know, I see us having a u um you
know, a a regular spot on the city
council agenda to, you know, to educate
the council on, hey, here's what this
stuff is saying. Here's what you wanted
us to know about. You know, you you
wanted us to uh to dive into and and
give you our take on these things. So
maybe what we could do instead of this
one at the bottom is that a bullet point
and what I've written together kind of
is engage with citizens for additional
information and understanding of
community concerns including through
surveys or one-on-one communication.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think we just sort of
» Yeah. Yeah. I think we just sort of
worked that. Yeah.
>> I I
think we just have to be careful about
in other words the city council is going
to go out and hire some experts. So they
wants to dive deeply into
a particular factor
of the NEA for
the sa for the sample. I I'm not sure
that they're going to come to us and
say, "Hey, take a look at this. Tell us
what you think." I think they're to
their experts.
>> So, I'm not sure that
» So, I'm not sure that
>> that is going to be part of our charge.
» that is going to be part of our charge.
>> This gets right to the right to the
» This gets right to the right to the
heart of what our organization um here
is really for. Um and um and I don't
think we've defined it completely yet um
well enough. Um I'm just I think
exploring ideas like public engagement
um might be just one of the things we
could add value on. I don't think that
that was done with the previous advisory
um committee or I'm not sure. Um Joey,
I'm asking you.
>> I'm not sure.
» I'm not sure.
>> Yeah. But I would like to do something
» Yeah. But I would like to do something
successful um and um
But you're concerned about you know how
it would devolve into just a griping
session. uh certainly would come up
quickly and I think for if we are nimble
we might be able to deal with that but
it' be great to hear from them and also
share um you know share some details
about um real estate concerns and I can
share a little bit about what I know
about um airport operations um in a
non-official way um and have an open
discussion just as citizens together
>> um and it could add some value I think
» um and it could add some value I think
um but
>> well that's what I was thinking maybe if
» well that's what I was thinking maybe if
we did let's say quarter quarterly We we
have two meetings of of our own and then
the third meeting um we we are open. I I
I think particularly with everything
coming down the shoot quickly and time
pressures that it's ask question.
Do you have any idea what timeline
means?
So by the time we get through the NEPA
appeal and then we go through the whole
process. I guess what I'm trying to
gauge is how long
>> do that if we're going to be going out
» do that if we're going to be going out
and explaining.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> How many meetings should we
» How many meetings should we
>> Right. Right. NEPA.
» Right. Right. NEPA.
>> It took them, let's see, on the Nepa, it
» It took them, let's see, on the Nepa, it
took them
I'm trying to think of how long it took
them from the
draft close to
the um
took him about nine
six to nine months to respond to all the
comments. So assuming it takes the same
amount of time to respond to all the SEA
comments, you know, and it's supposed to
come out in around quarter 1. I'm
hearing rumors of spring. I don't know
if where those rumors came from, so I
can't confirm those rumors. So
>> 26 or
» 26 or
>> Yeah. No, quarter 1 to 2020 or 26 is
» Yeah. No, quarter 1 to 2020 or 26 is
when this the draft EIS is supposed to
come out.
>> Um, we have been told we'll get 30 days
» Um, we have been told we'll get 30 days
notice. So, I can guarantee you it's not
coming out on the 1 of January because
we haven't been given 30 days notice
yet. Um, so then there'll be a comment
period. We don't know. Again, we've been
asking for them to give us more comment
period time than before. I've been
begging them to give us 30 days. I don't
think that's going to happen, but we'll
get something like 15 to 20 day comment
period. Um, and then they need to
however time it takes them to respond to
all those comments before they release
the final EIS. That could be anywhere
from if they really have enough experts
a month, but it took them about nine
months to do it on the NEPA. So, if
we're assuming nine around nine months,
we're going to be looking at a final EIS
towards the end of the year.
>> Although, because so much of it has been
» Although, because so much of it has been
covered before, I think they probably
are going to take advantage that could
be sped up a little bit. I wouldn't
expect it to take that long. Do you
think they're going to have a public um
forum where much like the port did? They
have to have a public meeting as part of
the draft EIS.
>> That's the port commission.
» That's the port commission.
>> The port is doing it. The port is doing
» The port is doing it. The port is doing
the SEIPA where the FAA did the NEPA.
>> So those meetings will take place down.
» So those meetings will take place down.
>> I'm sure they'll do No, I'm sure they'll
» I'm sure they'll do No, I'm sure they'll
do what they did for the NEPA and
they'll have three. They'll have one
around here at least the open houses and
things like that.
>> So what I'm hearing you say is there's
» So what I'm hearing you say is there's
going to be 12 meetings
with this group.
we will be
[clears throat]
>> for the end of the process.
» for the end of the process.
>> So that gives us some idea.
» So that gives us some idea.
>> So there could be a I mean one of the
» So there could be a I mean one of the
one or two of those could be maybe first
one see how it goes.
>> It's a cluster. We'll we won't do that
» It's a cluster. We'll we won't do that
again.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. Well, one of the topics could be
» Yeah. Well, one of the topics could be
could be the um be sea, but some other
topic could be general
noise
>> and the city held a public meeting for
» and the city held a public meeting for
NEPA. So, it'll be up to the council
whether they want to do that again for
SEPA. So, if we do that, obviously the
committee would be invited out to to
that, but we had a non-counsel public
meeting where we give kind of a
presentation, help people understand how
to respond to the SEIPA
>> document and things like that. And so,
» document and things like that. And so,
Um, we will most likely be asking
council if they want to do that again.
Um, obviously it costs money to bring
those professionals in to do that. So,
um, but it was done for NEPA or whether
we'll just say, "Hey, the NEPA letters
there. The studies really haven't
changed. You guys can take that previous
template and turn it around for SEIPA."
So,
>> another quick question. When does the
» another quick question. When does the
city news
>> the will the city current or the city?
» the will the city current or the city?
>> I just know that's quarterly.
» I just know that's quarterly.
>> It just came out. So
» It just came out. So
>> yes.
» yes.
>> So probably spring again is you know
» So probably spring again is you know
>> I think it just came out. So my guess
» I think it just came out. So my guess
would be spring. I'd have to double
check.
That would be a good
place to whatever we came up with a good
place to start
>> write an article for the current that's
» write an article for the current that's
not a bad idea.
>> So, okay, where are we? Can we agree
» So, okay, where are we? Can we agree
that we need to one do a survey?
>> Yeah, let's just uh Yeah, let's just
» Yeah, let's just uh Yeah, let's just
talk about this for one second. So, um
you know, I I I thought at first that
would be a pretty good idea to get a
sense of how the residents so we we can
provide some at least some data to the
uh to the um various groups we're
engaged with about what our residents
are concerned with. I don't think we're
going to see a lot of surprises though.
My guess is it's going to follow the the
same complaints um and those have been
well very well categorized on a number
of different um venues already. So I
don't know if we're going to get a whole
lot of new interesting information. It
would be nice to know whether noise is
their biggest concern or traffic's their
biggest concern or or health and what
aspects of health so we can tie that
into results that we want to see um
exemplified in the SEIPA um and um and
and and um cumulative effects that they
said they would address there. Um but I
but I don't know I mean but I'd like to
do the survey um and looking for the
right tool. So Joe, they um from the cab
perspective, the they've uh worked hard
to get a citywide
uh survey out for the strategic plan and
that has been going fairly well in terms
of I think they have over a thousand
responses. Um Katherine would have been
happy with 250.
>> Okay. So, but there was a you know
» Okay. So, but there was a you know
that's a 10 person I mean it's a tw I
don't know how big the committee is but
anyway there was a full that lot of
effort went into getting that out u two
takeaways from that it can be done um it
would be effective but second will there
be survey fatigue if they get if they're
hit with another one uh three months
later maybe they'll like it like these
surveys
>> I wrote up one I think I I sent it out
» I wrote up one I think I I sent it out
to everybody a little generic survey um
on um issues around Seek airport. Um,
and it wouldn't have to be very many
questions, right? You could you could be
done in less than 20 questions and it'd
be good to have as a in our back pocket
for feedback if it's well represented.
>> That's the baseline, right? That's the
» That's the baseline, right? That's the
baseline.
>> Be good to know
» Be good to know
>> ASAP or wait for
» ASAP or wait for
>> Well, I think it's going to take some
» Well, I think it's going to take some
time for us to discuss questions and do
some of that. Can't be done while this
other survey is going. ASA well I mean
this this survey is is is wrapping up
and the strategic plan process will be
wrapping up as early as this spring.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Um
» Um
>> late late spring.
» late late spring.
>> So so we would we ours would follow that
» So so we would we ours would follow that
and maybe good to have it in the summer
when the flights pick up and there's
more concern. Okay. So maybe there
wouldn't be such a bad thing. So let's
just make sure that's one of our um work
in our work plan to um accomplish that
and um provide a summary of those
results to the right folks
>> and that'll be timing on that will be
» and that'll be timing on that will be
late spring early summer
>> rightclude that
» rightclude that
>> so survey
city currents will that's obviously once
we get a work going
what do they do that three times a year
>> four But but the issue is when you know
» four But but the issue is when you know
when are there publishing deadlines? I
mean you know maybe you might want
something in January to before it gets
in in April. There's a real lag
involved.
>> Be nice to have a complete work.
» Be nice to have a complete work.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. We're not I don't think our lag is
» Yeah. We're not I don't think our lag is
like that. So if it goes if it does if
we're able to keep the January 22nd date
I don't see a problem with it being in a
spring.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> City current is my guess. Again I don't
» City current is my guess. Again I don't
know the exact date. And the 22nd is
when we would actually
make a presentation to city council. All
right.
» I think we should try I think we should
try
next year
after that.
So, but the immediate thing is for 12.
>> Yeah. Well, fine. Let's do that. And
» Yeah. Well, fine. Let's do that. And
then why don't we plan for a a March
public? We'd have two meetings and think
about having in March and and the
meeting in March, I would think, could
help inform our survey, which is going
out, you know, a quarter later perhaps.
Uh, and I think it would be a and and
there'll have been I think lots of time
for things to percolate. They'll be
public interest. The weather won't be
bad. Um, so and it'll give us some time
to plan it out between um, you know,
going to the council next month and then
we'll have February to sort of talk
about it.
>> Yeah. And then we'll have some good
» Yeah. And then we'll have some good
guidelines and some feedback about the
process that's approved. Some of the
concerns about how do we control a
meeting like that? What kind of
presentation materials we want to do
>> and um and who's going to be
» and um and who's going to be
responsible? What piece?
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Sure. Um you know I I think it's worth a
» Sure. Um you know I I think it's worth a
try. I I think it's might be very
useful.
>> I disagree. But we we all don't have to
» I disagree. But we we all don't have to
agree, you know. So, uh, um, I I I just
think, you know, if we go forward with
it, we we just need to make sure that
we, you know, uh, I I think and we'll
talk about what it looks like, right?
But I think it's going to have to be um,
very focused,
>> very focused.
» very focused.
>> That completely, that's going to help a
» That completely, that's going to help a
lot. It's and I think, you know, we're a
lot of us a lot of us have some pretty
good skills. Hopefully, we can balance
it and make it a productive meeting, um,
an informative meeting.
>> Yeah. But um it'll be interesting to see
» Yeah. But um it'll be interesting to see
how um how concerned our citizens really
are and whether they're really looking
for a place to um express their concerns
and we just need to respond
appropriately um to those with
information um technical information um
and um and and and let them know you
have someone to talk to. We can address
them
>> address them. And I I think that I think
» address them. And I I think that I think
the folks want to be heard more than
anything else. Imagine if the folks, you
know, that are complaining about things
actually had somebody that would listen
to them. Um, and um, I think that way
may help the community work this through
as as we all have to.
>> Well, I think you know, for me, what
» Well, I think you know, for me, what
success looks like,
we get the rest of
[laughter]
that.
>> Yeah.
No matter what the court says or you
know there's going to be impacts
>> and that if you're if you're not willing
» and that if you're if you're not willing
to have a serious discussion about some
kind of mitigation for those impacts at
least
be very honest about
the severity what the impacts are going
to be and when we can expect them to
occur so that as citizens property
owners
for people that maybe are, you know,
trying to plan for their retirement or
or where they're going to raise their
kids and send their kids to school so
people can make decisions.
>> And that to me is they owe us that. They
» And that to me is they owe us that. They
owe us the transparency. They owe us the
honesty to say, "Okay, Joe, here's
what's going to happen. You don't like
it,
but they owe us. They owe us that." Does
that need That's really clear, Joe. Does
Did that need to be in our threepoint
the the transparency part of what we're
committed to?
>> Can you add something like that?
» Can you add something like that?
>> So, here's what I'm kind of putting
» So, here's what I'm kind of putting
right now as I'm trying to type
something up. So, I've got engage with
citizens and the community for
additional information and understanding
community concerns through
surveys, one-on-one com communication,
support or hold a public meeting to
allow citizens to express their concerns
if needed, engage in community through
city currents articles about the
committee and activity.
>> It's good
» It's good
>> because because the
» because because the
>> I'll re yeah
» I'll re yeah
>> finesse the wording as typing as we're
» finesse the wording as typing as we're
talking. So,
>> because think coming to council, you
» because think coming to council, you
only get a few minutes. Um going to the
uh Port of Seattle presentations, it's
so diverse, it's hard, you don't get the
sense that one person's listening. Um
and um um and so there's not a great
venue for the residents to have any time
on with uh folks that um uh have some
impact to the process um for SAMP and
other things. So yeah, just I don't know
seems like
>> So Rebecca I uh so Joe and I have this
» So Rebecca I uh so Joe and I have this
policy start meeting that starts in five
minutes
>> and can
» and can
>> Did you want to approve the minutes? I
» Did you want to approve the minutes? I
think that's the last thing on here is
the minutes from the last meeting.
>> So, just one last thing, I hope you're
» So, just one last thing, I hope you're
right, and I'm going to do everything I
can to help make sure it's right. I just
hope we look back and say, "Wow, that
was a big waste of time."
>> It could be a waste of time. Anyway,
» It could be a waste of time. Anyway,
>> do you want us to do you want to do some
» do you want us to do you want to do some
more word smithing on this and then have
us take approve it at the next meeting?
>> Right. But I need the minutes from the
» Right. But I need the minutes from the
last meeting approve that's in here.
That's just this one page. No, that's
just that's
>> No, that that's just an attachment to
» No, that that's just an attachment to
the agenda.
>> So move.
» So move.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Second.
» Second.
>> Favor.
» Favor.
>> I
» I
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Is that all we needed to do and take
» Is that all we needed to do and take
>> that's it. [laughter]
» that's it. [laughter]
To your point it
>> start meetings
» start meetings
have to have consensus. I mean that's
they Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of a joke. I
guess I'm I'm looking at a business
perspective where it's like, okay, we
don't all agree, but we've made a
decision and whether we agree or not,
we're
>> that's where we're going.
» that's where we're going.
>> A word that send it out via email, see
» A word that send it out via email, see
if I have a general consensus, you can
do a formal approval at the next
meeting, but the agenda for the 22nd,
would be due the same day as your
meeting. So, if I have a general
consensus, I can work on it from that.
And then at the meeting, if you guys
formally approve the work plan for
recommendation to council, then we'll
make sure we'll get it right on the
agenda for the 22. Okay. And we don't
Okay, so it's holiday season, so
everyone's going to be busy, but if we
need to have an offsite meeting or
something like that after the first
year, let's just
>> have this back.
» have this back.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> I think that would be a good idea before
» I think that would be a good idea before
the 22nd.
» Yeah.
» So, um I sent you a note today,
you know, We're sort of orphaned here. I
know. Kick us out. But
>> yeah, unfortunately I don't have a staff
» yeah, unfortunately I don't have a staff
member scheduled to be here for two
hours. So it would
>> Hey, do you have the login information?
» I I checked with the library. They have
a room and tables, but they're only open
for another hour, not two hours.
>> Well, it's an hour. I mean,
» Well, it's an hour. I mean,
>> faster.
» faster.
>> It shows two hours in the calendar
» It shows two hours in the calendar
invite, but
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Hopefully you have some login. I didn't
» Hopefully you have some login. I didn't
get
>> I can forward it to you.
» I can forward it to you.
>> I should have it.
» I should have it.
>> Do it and copy me anyway just in case.
» I mean it just comes from Cheryl. I can
forward it. That's what I'm gonna That
has the Zoom. So I'll forward you the
calendar but Wednesday.
>> No, that's for today's
» No, that's for today's
that wasn't available.
>> The Wednesday at home.
» The Wednesday at home.
Lindsay when I get
>> right
» right
>> but for the policy committee and the
» but for the policy committee and the
noise committee
>> I wouldn't mind knowing when those are
» I wouldn't mind knowing when those are
>> supposed to be on a calendar
» supposed to be on a calendar
>> that's what I'm saying on the calendar
» that's what I'm saying on the calendar
it has the the Zoom link so I'm sending
it to you right now
>> I I'm forwarding the calendar so I'm
» I I'm forwarding the calendar so I'm
assuming it's
>> just mess up
» just mess up
>> I think they send out one at a time it
» I think they send out one at a time it
doesn't look like it's all of them so I