[1:50] and got a relatively short agenda, but
[1:54] there's
[1:56] going to some
[2:04] I don't know if you got a chance to take
[2:06] a look at this, but going over this and
[2:08] just making This wording is absolutely
[2:12] because this will go to the council and
[2:16] the city manager set up a meeting for uh
[2:20] >> Can you pull the microphone a little
[2:21] » Can you pull the microphone a little
[2:21] closer so you're picked up?
[2:22] >> Okay.
[2:22] » Okay.
[2:22] >> Thank you.
[2:25] » Thank you.
[2:25] >> For set up a meeting for January. It's
[2:29] » For set up a meeting for January. It's
[2:29] Thursday, January 22nd, right?
[2:31] >> And that's when we will take a work plan
[2:35] » And that's when we will take a work plan
[2:35] to the city council and do a brief
[2:36] presentation and There will be a
[2:39] discussion at that time. U so anyway
[2:44] uh I'm going to actually uh delay I
[2:48] think we should delay the approval of
[2:50] the minutes because that's we need to go
[2:51] over that and make sure that wording is
[2:53] exactly what we want it to be before we
[2:55] approve that. So I'll jump right to item
[2:59] two, the start meeting update. U there's
[3:02] a general meeting on Wednesday that
[3:06] anybody can uh zoom into
[3:10] and I don't really I haven't
[3:14] received the agenda yet. Did you
[3:16] >> I thought it was tonight.
[3:17] » I thought it was tonight.
[3:17] >> Well, yeah, there's a policy
[3:18] » Well, yeah, there's a policy
[3:18] >> policy tonight.
[3:19] » policy tonight.
[3:19] >> There's a noise working group tonight.
[3:21] » There's a noise working group tonight.
[3:21] >> Tonight and then the regular meeting is
[3:23] » Tonight and then the regular meeting is
[3:23] Wednesday.
[3:24] >> Wednesday. Yeah.
[3:25] » Wednesday. Yeah.
[3:25] >> And what were time six?
[3:27] » And what were time six?
[3:27] >> Uh it's the same time.
[3:29] » Uh it's the same time.
[3:29] Yeah. Five.
[3:31] >> Okay. And uh so uh the only um
[3:39] » Okay. And uh so uh the only um
[3:39] the anything from the start is just
[3:41] basically uh uh the reports they are
[3:44] putting out on their their regular
[3:47] reports they put out. So I don't really
[3:49] have anything new. U the SAMP update is
[3:55] uh I don't know if any of you saw the
[3:59] lead story in the times.
[4:00] >> Oh yes,
[4:01] » Oh yes,
[4:01] >> but that was
[4:03] » but that was
[4:03] >> that was a pretty good article on
[4:05] » that was a pretty good article on
[4:05] summarize things.
[4:06] >> Yeah.
[4:08] » Yeah.
[4:08] So that's where that's at the city and
[4:13] three you know the last time we talked
[4:15] about the ILA between CAC and
[4:18] Mo and apparently that all was signed
[4:23] sealed and delivered and
[4:26] the lawyers got the appeal in on time.
[4:29] >> So that's rolling along. I don't but
[4:32] » So that's rolling along. I don't but
[4:32] it's probably a pretty long process.
[4:36] >> Um
[4:38] » Um
[4:38] takeaway I got from that u
[4:42] is
[4:43] and Jeff you got it Jeff it's basically
[4:46] u hey folks uh we have to build the we
[4:52] have to accommodate rising demand period
[4:54] and we start with that and if you guys
[4:57] don't go along with it that's kind of
[4:59] too bad but we have to do it anyway.
[5:03] Yeah, I and and the demand will be here.
[5:06] That's kind of a given. And and the FAA,
[5:09] I'm sorry, and the FAA uh requirements
[5:14] um are given.
[5:17] So then somehow we have to make the case
[5:20] that we're disproportionately impacted.
[5:26] » Well, it'll be an interesting
[5:27] discussion.
[5:28] I uh
[5:30] I I
[5:33] going through that article and just
[5:35] taking a few notes just seemed to me
[5:37] like
[5:40] often in process in a process like this
[5:49] on a number
[5:51] of
[5:53] >> the real thing. Yeah. Yeah.
[5:55] » the real thing. Yeah. Yeah.
[5:55] >> That's right.
[5:57] » That's right.
[5:57] I think I think that's one of the first
[5:59] questions I'd like to
[6:03] get an answer to is where did the number
[6:05] come from where did
[6:08] they came by 2032
[6:11] >> 56 yeah we're 52 million it'll be 56
[6:14] » 56 yeah we're 52 million it'll be 56
[6:14] million in two more years in 2030 yeah
[6:19] >> where did they get that
[6:24] it has to be some way population growth
[6:27] I would imagine
[6:28] >> they've done I mean I've seen studies
[6:31] » they've done I mean I've seen studies
[6:31] done that just kind of blly extrapolate
[6:36] without taking into consideration
[6:40] hiccups like COVID and other things that
[6:42] can occur you know I think they've taken
[6:44] the um trend line tried to extend it um
[6:48] as best they could from population
[6:50] growth which is probably somewhat
[6:52] predictable based on economy but the uh
[6:55] number of associated increase in flights
[6:58] is a little more difficult uh to um uh
[7:02] really uh get a handle on and it's kind
[7:05] of a slow role as u new perhaps
[7:09] technology and and the new taxi way
[7:11] implementation additional gates and all
[7:13] that kind of stuff and I think that um
[7:15] they're going to explore where they can
[7:18] move capacity up but you know that
[7:20] number is harder to get to um and is not
[7:23] going to increase at the same
[7:25] as the estimated population. So you kind
[7:28] of wonder where it's going to fall in.
[7:29] But whatever is going to happen, we are
[7:31] looking at larger numbers in the area of
[7:33] maybe 10% or perhaps more. Um
[7:37] not too far.
[7:40] When I was reading that, I was sort of
[7:41] thinking about you
[7:44] because it occurred to me that I mean
[7:47] there's only
[7:49] if you're going to
[7:51] million people
[7:55] through the building. That's just
[7:59] the other side.
[8:04] It seems to me like the only way you're
[8:05] going to get more people more people in
[8:09] that airport
[8:18] take off landing or you have to have
[8:21] more land. Well, there going to be more
[8:23] takeoff and landings. I don't think
[8:24] they're going to have I don't think the
[8:26] planes are going to change much, but you
[8:27] will see uh if they can get if they can
[8:29] get their planes off the runways on off
[8:31] the runways more efficiently um and do
[8:34] it safely andor reduce separation due to
[8:37] turbulence and uh utilize uh parallel
[8:40] runways um mixed approaches uh more
[8:43] effectively.
[8:45] >> Uh you know, nextG is coming. Uh the FA
[8:48] » Uh you know, nextG is coming. Uh the FA
[8:48] is well funded to uh continue to move on
[8:50] with that.
[8:51] It's not a direct relationship between
[8:53] technology. Now, there's some
[8:54] limitations there, but uh yeah, there's
[8:57] going to definitely be an increase um
[8:59] for sure. And you can see when they
[9:00] really hit it and they were able to use
[9:02] all their runways effectively parallel
[9:04] or staggered, uh they can increase their
[9:06] numbers up to um you know, they can run
[9:10] as many as
[9:12] one every 60 seconds, one every 45
[9:14] seconds when they're hitting it hard.
[9:16] and um and they want to and if they use
[9:19] all their runways, they can really move
[9:20] that number up a little bit.
[9:23] >> But am I wrong to say that it is
[9:26] » But am I wrong to say that it is
[9:26] contingent on completion of the next gen
[9:32] » which they have? It sounded like that
[9:34] wasn't wholly in place yet. Uh yeah,
[9:37] NextGen has a has a long history of
[9:41] improvements. Uh but some of the taxiway
[9:43] improvements that are in SAMP right now
[9:45] are critical to getting the uh aircraft
[9:48] off the runway more quickly.
[9:49] >> Um and they don't they don't have that
[9:51] » Um and they don't they don't have that
[9:51] capacity right now. They have to run to
[9:52] the ends and that slows things down.
[9:54] They have to cross. Those new taxiways
[9:56] are really the key, one of the key
[9:57] components to getting those uh planes
[10:00] off effectively, efficiently. Plus more
[10:02] open gates so there's no delays. They
[10:04] get right to the gate. They have to wait
[10:05] in gates. backs up. They slow things
[10:08] down. They will slow things down.
[10:11] The other thing that occurred to me
[10:14] was
[10:15] the airlines
[10:32] and I don't why is
[10:35] Of course, one of our big issues is
[10:44] but isn't it again it doesn't I can't
[10:49] imagine that the airlines want to we're
[10:52] going to absorb
[10:54] four more people million more people I
[10:56] don't think they want to tell them oh
[10:58] yeah
[11:01] » well a lot of that is union contracts
[11:04] too that that
[11:05] >> [snorts]
[11:05] » [snorts]
[11:05] >> set that time frame.
[11:06] » set that time frame.
[11:06] >> Sure. Yeah.
[11:09] » Sure. Yeah.
[11:09] So,
[11:11] what we're really saying is that most of
[11:13] those additional operations are going to
[11:15] come,
[11:19] which I guess is probably good for us,
[11:21] but is it even possible?
[11:24] >> Well, they're not up to capacity now.
[11:26] » Well, they're not up to capacity now.
[11:26] The runway is going to take more planes.
[11:28] Uh, so they certainly can run. Imagine
[11:29] if they could run uh um just maybe 10
[11:34] more planes um in um you know they're
[11:37] looking at trying to get the number of
[11:39] flights up late night flights um not
[11:41] changing very much. If you look at the
[11:43] numbers in the studies that's not going
[11:45] to change too much. Um and we need to
[11:47] ensure that that they maintain that um
[11:51] strategy. Uh that's important um as a
[11:54] remedy and um and then uh they can up
[11:57] the number of flights uh per hour. So
[11:59] they're trying to get like you know
[12:01] maybe up to a hundred more flights per
[12:03] day that will make that that will that
[12:05] will hit those estimates. 100 flights
[12:06] per day you're talking about you know a
[12:08] few more per hour uh which is several
[12:11] more you know you know you take another
[12:13] every 15 seconds you might get another
[12:15] flight in. Um and so run on some run
[12:18] some parallel approaches, staggered
[12:20] approaches, mix, you know, when they fly
[12:22] when we're in north flow, we have a lot
[12:24] of south flow landings and takeoffs. Um
[12:27] they're if they can effectively make all
[12:29] that work for them, um they can up that
[12:32] number of flights, but um um and so it's
[12:35] all quite doable. Um whether you can
[12:38] accommodate, you know, 20 more million
[12:41] people is kind of a big question mark to
[12:43] me. Um but um but they can to hit that
[12:46] curve. you know, um I'm hoping that the
[12:49] remedy as we look through the um uh
[12:52] environmental studies that the remedies,
[12:55] and everybody kind of knows my take, the
[12:56] remedy is that we um uh do not allow
[13:01] more flights, that we leave everything
[13:04] um in the way and make it no worse, do
[13:07] no more harm until we have solid studies
[13:10] on sound um uh pollution, health effects
[13:14] um that can be um highly um uh that are
[13:20] that are based on scientific evidence
[13:22] that if that it's not going to create
[13:23] more harm for the community. And until
[13:25] that's done, we should not be increasing
[13:27] flights any more flights. Um and that
[13:30] would be um that would be a remedy.
[13:33] You'll note that, you know, we're
[13:34] starting this starting these um uh
[13:37] appeals, but there were no remedies in
[13:39] any of the documents that I saw. Um so
[13:42] I'm hoping to provide feedback. The
[13:44] remedy you would you would advocate is
[13:48] is no more
[13:49] >> do more do no more harm, right?
[13:51] » do more do no more harm, right?
[13:51] >> Yeah. I think let's
[13:52] » Yeah. I think let's
[13:52] >> if you want to build a new terminal, be
[13:54] » if you want to build a new terminal, be
[13:54] my guest.
[13:55] >> Prove that it's not going to harm folks
[13:58] » Prove that it's not going to harm folks
[13:58] healthwise.
[13:59] >> Yeah.
[14:00] » Yeah.
[14:00] >> Um anymore.
[14:01] » Um anymore.
[14:01] >> Is there any is there any usefulness in
[14:04] » Is there any is there any usefulness in
[14:04] asking the question,
[14:07] is it even necessary?
[14:10] I mean, if
[14:13] if it's dependent if that extra 100
[14:16] flights a day is dependent on the next
[14:19] gen being completed
[14:21] and we really you say it's well but
[14:24] given the circumstances we have right
[14:28] now the fact that any reasonable person
[14:30] could look at that and say regardless of
[14:32] who's in charge there's still going to
[14:34] be problems
[14:37] can we count on nextg being done
[14:40] at the time when all these come online.
[14:44] >> Well, NextGen's already well deep into,
[14:46] » Well, NextGen's already well deep into,
[14:46] you know, maturity. So, um I they've
[14:49] already they've already reduced
[14:51] separation standards. Um they've already
[14:54] um uh they're putting new surface
[14:56] surveillance system and CATX has some of
[14:57] the best around uh that allow them to uh
[15:00] really tighten up the number of flights
[15:02] and um but wake turbulence distances
[15:05] still need to be maintained. You can't
[15:06] fix and change that. Um but they can get
[15:09] the um flow metrics uh really precise.
[15:13] >> Well, let me sharpen up the question
[15:15] » Well, let me sharpen up the question
[15:15] right now. Sometimes
[15:18] brushing my teeth and I can look out
[15:22] and I see two airplanes. [clears throat]
[15:25] I look at it.
[15:30] » When am I going to be looking out there
[15:32] and see?
[15:34] you know, they are um they are
[15:36] authorized for triple approaches. Um
[15:39] they don't do it very often because it's
[15:40] hard to get the planes off the runway,
[15:41] all three of them off the runway at the
[15:43] same time. So, they can't really hit
[15:44] that fast. But in the summertime, you'll
[15:45] note that when it's really good weather,
[15:47] uh the winds are light uh to none. Um
[15:50] they um they have done triple
[15:52] approaches. If you look at the data,
[15:53] they've done triple approaches before,
[15:55] so it does happen. Or or the two and
[15:57] then one staggered behind it. You'll see
[15:59] that happen. Um the mix though is you
[16:02] can have planes coming and when they're
[16:03] really hitting it, they can land north
[16:05] and south at the same time and just
[16:08] stagger them in um as best they can. And
[16:10] when they get these new taxi ways in, I
[16:12] think they're going to explore how to do
[16:13] that more effectively. So um you know,
[16:17] >> so they could do a lot of these
[16:18] » so they could do a lot of these
[16:18] improvements they [clears throat] could
[16:20] go ahead and do. They could put in
[16:21] >> they don't need nextg right now. I mean,
[16:23] » they don't need nextg right now. I mean,
[16:23] >> yeah, they could do the additional taxi
[16:24] » yeah, they could do the additional taxi
[16:24] rays and and they have the land and they
[16:27] could even start on the new terminal. um
[16:29] which would alleviate because how many
[16:31] times I mean I you get in there I mean I
[16:33] so last week I I date down and back to
[16:36] San Jose I'm in the new D terminal and
[16:39] go down there and I go this is odd and
[16:42] guess what we hopped on a bus when and I
[16:46] go really you know and and uh what is
[16:50] yeah and and then um
[16:54] and then down in San Jose was
[16:56] interesting we were the last flight out
[16:58] now I realized they have other airports
[17:00] in the area was 5:00 p.m. in the in the
[17:03] second terminal. We were the last that
[17:05] was that was it. I would have taken a
[17:06] 7:00 flight home. If it was at 7, they
[17:09] rush back and to get on that 5:00 flight
[17:12] and then done.
[17:14] >> That's it.
[17:16] » That's it.
[17:16] Um uh so I think we have a um
[17:21] a pretty big challenge um in trying to
[17:24] maintain um a remedy like no more
[17:27] flights or slot that slot system at
[17:30] other airports use it that don't allow
[17:31] any more flights. It's a hard hard
[17:33] number. We don't CAC does not have a
[17:36] hard number.
[17:36] >> Why can't we that's what we're here for
[17:39] » Why can't we that's what we're here for
[17:39] and you certainly I mean as a as one
[17:41] remedy
[17:42] >> it sounds like the message is that this
[17:46] » it sounds like the message is that this
[17:46] isn't something that's out
[17:50] what I'm hearing you say this isn't out
[17:51] in the future you know. Oh, no. They
[17:53] >> This is stuff they do right now.
[17:54] » This is stuff they do right now.
[17:54] Something. So,
[17:56] >> yeah. I mean, look at look at the
[17:57] » yeah. I mean, look at look at the
[17:57] summertime. I mean, they're really
[17:58] hitting it. I've counted planes coming
[18:00] every 45 seconds. I mean, they are
[18:01] really hitting. Absolutely.
[18:03] >> Um and and running up, you know, to you
[18:05] » Um and and running up, you know, to you
[18:06] know, over 2,000 flights a day,
[18:08] something like that. Um and they can
[18:09] really hit it hard. Uh when things are
[18:11] just running well, you just hope for bad
[18:14] weather all the time. And I will always
[18:15] keep it nice and slow. [laughter]
[18:18] >> So, half the year we're Okay. If we're
[18:21] » So, half the year we're Okay. If we're
[18:21] out in front of the public talking to
[18:23] our citizens, then the message is this
[18:25] is something that's
[18:27] now
[18:31] future. This is what they're planning to
[18:32] do sometimes.
[18:36] This is going to start with
[18:41] » Yes, I think we need to do something
[18:43] now. Um and um and hopefully um as it'd
[18:48] be interesting to hear how the lawyers
[18:49] think of a strategy and work the
[18:51] strategy strategic issues once they um
[18:53] once they be because I think they kind
[18:55] of know what's coming. I think you can
[18:57] pretty much understand what going to be
[18:59] in the EIS's um and start talking about
[19:02] what some of those remedies may be.
[19:04] There are certainly other things that we
[19:06] want to take care of trees and noise
[19:08] abatement um and funding for all those
[19:11] things
[19:12] >> and reduce it but but not reducing the
[19:14] » and reduce it but but not reducing the
[19:14] number of flights but keeping it the
[19:16] same um and do no more harm. Seems like
[19:20] a a good, you know, that would be a good
[19:22] goal to
[19:23] >> Well, and they're talking about traffic.
[19:25] » Well, and they're talking about traffic.
[19:25] So, if one of their improvements is um
[19:30] additional employee parking, plus you
[19:33] you do have the light rail now that goes
[19:35] all the way down to Federal Way. So,
[19:38] that's a mitigation.
[19:40] >> Mitigating that, right? Traffic is being
[19:41] » Mitigating that, right? Traffic is being
[19:41] mitigated. And so I'm not a traffic
[19:43] expert, but it seems like some of these
[19:45] mitigations are being [snorts]
[19:47] addressed. Increased traffic. Um, you
[19:50] know, what's not being addressed is
[19:51] increased, you know, air traffic.
[19:53] >> Yeah. But I like your point, Joe, that
[19:55] » Yeah. But I like your point, Joe, that
[19:55] uh do we really know where these
[19:59] the the additional
[20:01] demand is because gosh, how many
[20:05] airports have we all been to where all
[20:06] of a sudden the hub goes away? You know,
[20:08] have you ever been out to Louisville?
[20:09] That was where um some I can't remember
[20:13] who was originally anchored there or St.
[20:15] Louis you know just tons of capacity
[20:18] empty airports um you know compared to
[20:21] what we got here
[20:22] >> well one of the
[20:23] » well one of the
[20:23] >> but it could change
[20:25] » but it could change
[20:25] >> I think when I when I first started with
[20:28] » I think when I when I first started with
[20:28] start there was an representative at the
[20:32] general meetings
[20:33] >> okay
[20:34] » okay
[20:34] >> maybe even
[20:36] » maybe even
[20:36] not so policy but I don't see airport
[20:42] theory
[20:44] and I think one of the the key things
[20:48] and and I don't even know
[20:51] how this is how you would even get the
[20:54] number but I imagine that in the
[20:56] boardroom someplace when they're you
[20:58] know Alaska Airlines here you know how
[21:00] many seats are we going to dedicate to
[21:04] this airport whether they're talking
[21:05] about Oakland or SeaTac or or
[21:10] Juno or whatever. He said, "How many
[21:12] seats do we need
[21:15] uh in that market area to suck up all
[21:18] you know to absorb all the demand?"
[21:21] >> But I there there has to be some
[21:23] » But I there there has to be some
[21:23] connection there between
[21:26] um
[21:28] what the airlines are
[21:30] >> asking for.
[21:31] » asking for.
[21:31] >> Asking for exactly that's the word I'm
[21:33] » Asking for exactly that's the word I'm
[21:34] what are they asking? Uh and and I've
[21:37] never it would be nice to be able to ask
[21:39] that question.
[21:41] Is there a line outside your door from
[21:43] the airlines asking, you know, waiting,
[21:45] you know, demanding more
[21:49] operations at CTAC airport?
[21:51] >> I I wouldn't be surprised because just
[21:53] » I I wouldn't be surprised because just
[21:53] anecdotally traveling a lot for business
[21:54] and and for family and stuff, I mean, I
[21:57] fly Alaska exclusively. Every single
[22:00] flight is full.
[22:01] >> Yeah, our planes are packed. Not not
[22:02] » Yeah, our planes are packed. Not not
[22:02] even not not even just to like you know
[22:05] like I couple weeks ago to Atlanta you
[22:08] know where they only have like two
[22:10] flights a day but even back last month I
[22:13] flew directly uh to Oklahoma City right
[22:17] >> full
[22:18] » full
[22:18] >> you know even to a smaller city to
[22:19] » you know even to a smaller city to
[22:19] Oklahoma City
[22:20] >> I know right
[22:21] » I know right
[22:21] >> you get off the plane and you start
[22:22] » you get off the plane and you start
[22:22] wandering around Oklahoma City and
[22:24] there's no one there's like why was this
[22:26] plane so full
[22:27] >> but um
[22:28] » but um
[22:28] >> well in southwest when I was in Chicago
[22:30] » well in southwest when I was in Chicago
[22:30] I always flew southwest And it was
[22:32] always I mean they got it really down.
[22:34] They were packed. And you're right about
[22:37] uh um midweek to San Jose where I mean
[22:41] why are we you know it was a full I I
[22:44] would I would think that I think that
[22:45] the demand is there. You can just tell
[22:47] by the number of folks moving through
[22:49] the system. Um and if you require with
[22:52] the airlines they're going to say yeah
[22:53] and we want to fly more core hours too.
[22:56] Um, you know, they they probably do
[22:58] prefer to fly um uh as soon as more
[23:02] approaches, get those planes filled up
[23:04] and um and run.
[23:07] >> But it would be but it would be
[23:08] » But it would be but it would be
[23:08] interesting to look at Delta and Alaska
[23:10] and and kind of get under go behind the
[23:12] numbers and see really is this how this
[23:15] is being done and then the Hawaii
[23:17] merger. You know,
[23:17] >> I think there's a reason why they don't
[23:18] » I think there's a reason why they don't
[23:18] show up to meetings. They're not going
[23:20] to tell you those numbers. Yeah,
[23:24] >> they may not feel they have much to add
[23:26] » they may not feel they have much to add
[23:26] to the conversation starting
[23:30] control like they're trying to increase
[23:32] capacity, but I feel like
[23:35] >> you mean a number of controllers.
[23:36] » you mean a number of controllers.
[23:36] >> Yeah.
[23:37] » Yeah.
[23:37] >> Oh, sure. That's a problem.
[23:38] » Oh, sure. That's a problem.
[23:38] >> Yeah.
[23:39] » Yeah.
[23:39] >> Yeah. But that's a fix. That's that's
[23:41] » Yeah. But that's a fix. That's that's
[23:41] that is and that has caused a number of
[23:44] delays, right? Um you know, and it does
[23:47] I'm sure that affects capacity too. The
[23:49] number flights that You only have so
[23:51] many controllers. You can't handle as
[23:53] many flights.
[23:57] » But if you follow, you know, you're
[23:59] exactly right. And so we're in a we're
[24:01] kind of in a a period of time where
[24:02] they're really struggling, but um
[24:04] there's a big plan to hire train um
[24:07] that's massively coming on. You can see
[24:09] that. And again, the Pearson is very
[24:11] well funded in the current government
[24:13] situation. one of the few government
[24:14] agencies that are you can if you read uh
[24:17] carefully you'll see they're buying an
[24:18] enormous amount of technology new
[24:21] technology the complaints always been
[24:23] there telecommunications is old some of
[24:26] the equipment is quite old reliable but
[24:28] old um and uh they plan on fixing all
[24:31] that so there's going to be a lot of
[24:34] ability to get get out of that problem
[24:37] not enough control
[24:39] >> so is that the fall
[24:44] equipment failed. is that was a tele
[24:47] that was that was a telecommunication
[24:48] problem um with the uh with the
[24:51] providers
[24:53] um not the FAA equipment but the
[24:55] providers of the intercommunication
[24:57] systems um that's extremely complex
[25:00] right you got satellites you got fiber
[25:01] lines and you got it goes through all
[25:02] sorts of cities and it got tangled up um
[25:05] um but they're they're trying to redo
[25:07] all that with more redundancy so um that
[25:10] should be getting better so I think all
[25:12] the all the things are in place to
[25:13] support um um you know more um capacity
[25:17] a more efficient um operation if they
[25:20] can. So our again we are challenged to
[25:23] um
[25:24] >> so what we can do keep that down.
[25:27] » so what we can do keep that down.
[25:27] >> Do we want to we need to pass this
[25:31] » Do we want to we need to pass this
[25:31] >> let's hit one more let's is there any
[25:34] » let's hit one more let's is there any
[25:34] more discussion on the samp here?
[25:35] >> Well I handed out a flyer that I made
[25:38] » Well I handed out a flyer that I made
[25:38] that talks about the process between the
[25:40] NEPA and TIFA. Um, it includes dates
[25:43] that went to council and things like
[25:44] that just so that if you're aware if you
[25:46] wanted to be aware of
[25:48] >> the stuff in the past and expected
[25:50] » the stuff in the past and expected
[25:50] dates, but I just put those together and
[25:52] wanted to provide it for you if you have
[25:53] any questions. I'm happy to
[25:56] >> answer any.
[25:57] » answer any.
[25:57] >> Okay. So, everybody can take a look at
[25:59] » Okay. So, everybody can take a look at
[25:59] those. Uh, we have some uh
[26:03] complaints
[26:05] here. Frankly, I didn't get a chance to
[26:07] take a look at these. Is there anything
[26:10] Was there anything in here that we
[26:13] >> So, the new part in here includes the
[26:15] » So, the new part in here includes the
[26:15] what you guys had talked about a draft
[26:17] response to the complaints and that's on
[26:19] the second page.
[26:20] >> All right.
[26:20] » All right.
[26:20] >> Um, so that one's got includes a a kind
[26:24] » Um, so that one's got includes a a kind
[26:24] of a generic
[26:26] >> response that we can't if if you guys
[26:28] » response that we can't if if you guys
[26:28] want us to when you guys get emails that
[26:32] um we can respond for general. Thank you
[26:35] for reaching out. Um
[26:39] >> yeah, I wrote this up. Um Yep. Yeah. And
[26:42] » yeah, I wrote this up. Um Yep. Yeah. And
[26:42] so, um and uh you know, was
[26:45] without a tremendous amount of thought.
[26:48] Uh [laughter]
[26:49] um well, because I I I really wanted the
[26:51] group here to um help me uh get the
[26:55] right words um and um with the right uh
[26:59] type of feedback. I mean, we can and I I
[27:02] think attached to this is also um an
[27:04] analysis of one of Mrs. Hugh's um Miss
[27:08] Hughes um issues and again she had a
[27:11] second email um that she had and she is
[27:14] um you know zealous
[27:16] >> um and is concerned
[27:18] » um and is concerned
[27:18] >> planes I mean the the whether they take
[27:21] » planes I mean the the whether they take
[27:21] off or land is is a wind issue and it
[27:23] happens both ways. I mean she sounded
[27:26] like they only land
[27:28] >> Yeah. I don't think she appreciates that
[27:30] » Yeah. I don't think she appreciates that
[27:30] they can run a dual operation, north and
[27:32] south flow. Um um in terms of landing
[27:36] and takeoffs, um it's not just if the
[27:38] winds uh you know southerntherly,
[27:40] they're not just going to do south flow,
[27:43] they'll include north flow as well. Um
[27:45] and I think she's I think she um
[27:47] observes some of that. Um and then I did
[27:50] an analysis of the w high winds and when
[27:53] they would change flows and they're
[27:54] changing every time the wind is hitting
[27:56] it. So, it's it's not like the FAA is
[27:59] not doing what they um probably need to
[28:02] do to keep the operation safe and
[28:03] efficient. Um, but she makes some she
[28:06] makes some comments about um about the
[28:09] um night flights where she's concerned.
[28:12] Um and that's an area we can continue to
[28:14] focus on. And then there aren't that
[28:16] many night flights though. Night flights
[28:18] do seem to all contained um running to
[28:20] the quiet quiet skies initiative.
[28:22] >> One to five.
[28:23] » One to five.
[28:23] >> Yeah, it's it's quite low. Um and Um,
[28:27] » Yeah, it's it's quite low. Um and Um,
[28:28] and I don't um I don't see many um if
[28:31] any um you know increase in that after
[28:34] little bit after midnight and then
[28:35] pretty then it really drops down.
[28:37] >> No, you're right. It drops down by 1 in
[28:38] » No, you're right. It drops down by 1 in
[28:38] the morning. It's really quiet until 5.
[28:40] But after between five and six, man,
[28:42] they start spinning up like crazy and it
[28:45] you'll you'll hear them, right? And
[28:46] they'll start running full capacity
[28:47] wherever they can get to get the day
[28:50] going.
[28:52] Um, so, uh, I do think it's a good idea
[28:55] to provide some feedback for folks that
[28:56] >> Yeah.
[28:57] » Yeah.
[28:57] >> um, that mail in and get get these get
[29:00] » um, that mail in and get get these get
[29:00] our residents to get their complaints to
[29:02] the right organization.
[29:04] Go to the site that I mentioned. You can
[29:06] actually pick out the plane that's
[29:07] annoying you and um, and and I could do
[29:11] some additional work around some of the
[29:13] complaints. Um, we'll see what comes in
[29:15] to see if there's any value to that.
[29:17] >> Okay. So the immediate question for the
[29:19] » Okay. So the immediate question for the
[29:19] group is uh
[29:22] the form letter. Are we okay with the
[29:24] form letter
[29:25] >> with the three points?
[29:30] » Are you talking about that or are you
[29:31] talking about Jeff's form?
[29:32] >> This is the email response to the
[29:34] » This is the email response to the
[29:34] concern.
[29:35] >> Oh yeah.
[29:36] » Oh yeah.
[29:36] >> Um if you'll read that over. Um you know
[29:38] » Um if you'll read that over. Um you know
[29:38] I really wanted your words. I don't want
[29:40] to want to
[29:42] >> I'm speaking pretty much myself here but
[29:44] » I'm speaking pretty much myself here but
[29:44] um it's pretty generic, right?
[29:45] >> It is. It's generic. Yeah, I didn't see
[29:47] » It is. It's generic. Yeah, I didn't see
[29:47] anything offending here.
[29:48] >> You know, it
[29:50] » You know, it
[29:50] make sure that our residents know that
[29:52] we are concerned, we're paying
[29:54] attention. Um, and get them to the right
[29:56] folks to to
[29:58] >> So, what is what is the noise program
[29:59] » So, what is what is the noise program
[29:59] office do other than just send them a
[30:01] thing? Thank you. We
[30:03] >> Well, the noise the noise pro it's not
[30:06] » Well, the noise the noise pro it's not
[30:06] the noise program. the um the FAA and
[30:09] the um uh and the um
[30:13] uh primarily the FAA, Port of Seattle,
[30:16] they both have they both have websites
[30:17] where you can make complaints um
[30:19] officially and you can get official
[30:22] responses back um on significant
[30:26] concerns about noise particularly if you
[30:28] identify flight numbers and all that
[30:30] kind of stuff and they will uh respond.
[30:33] Uh it takes a really long time for them
[30:35] to respond. I don't think it's been
[30:37] satisfactory to the residents the type
[30:39] of response they get, but that's the
[30:41] official place to go and um you know, we
[30:44] shouldn't be issuing official responses
[30:46] for for those organizations.
[30:47] >> No.
[30:48] » No.
[30:48] >> And I'm sure Miss Hughes is not going to
[30:50] » And I'm sure Miss Hughes is not going to
[30:50] be satisfied with whatever answer she
[30:52] gets because they're not they're going
[30:54] to tell her.
[30:54] >> Yeah. Right.
[30:55] » Yeah. Right.
[30:55] >> You know,
[30:56] » You know,
[30:56] >> it's loud. It's absolut It's certainly
[30:57] » it's loud. It's absolut It's certainly
[30:57] loud over her house and there are
[30:59] certainly many planes flying over house
[31:00] and I think she notes when the wind
[31:02] changes you definitely get a different
[31:04] mix of aircraft. Um and she's closer to
[31:07] um the outer let's see is it the outer
[31:09] runway? Um yeah the outer runway. So
[31:12] when they're running a mix configuration
[31:13] particularly when she thinks everything
[31:14] should be going um on um on north flow
[31:18] they may be doing um takeoffs on that
[31:21] runway as well which is which is really
[31:23] loud. Right. When you're in three miles
[31:25] takeoffs are the most loud. Outside
[31:26] three miles it's a little quieter
[31:28] because they get up and they they are
[31:30] getting up fast. Um um but in in close
[31:34] six miles out they're on final approach.
[31:35] They're 3,000 ft and going down. So it's
[31:39] and it's pretty noisy as they get in
[31:41] within three miles on landing. That's
[31:43] that's the rough part for the people
[31:44] that live south.
[31:45] >> So So Jeff, you wrote her the I mean you
[31:47] » So So Jeff, you wrote her the I mean you
[31:48] prepared this. I mean this goes on and
[31:50] on. This is very thorough.
[31:51] >> Yeah. I actually did a detailed analysis
[31:53] » Yeah. I actually did a detailed analysis
[31:53] of of u misuse um uh concerns. Um, and
[31:58] then I wrote uh in red what my uh what
[32:00] my responses were and um and we don't
[32:03] need to go into details here.
[32:05] >> No, but I can if you guys are good I can
[32:06] » No, but I can if you guys are good I can
[32:06] send this to her and I can even say it
[32:08] was put together by a committee member.
[32:09] That way it's not official city.
[32:11] >> Yeah, we should just make sure that we
[32:13] » Yeah, we should just make sure that we
[32:13] that it is not an official response.
[32:15] This is a
[32:17] >> these are our concerns and and it
[32:18] » these are our concerns and and it
[32:18] doesn't address
[32:19] >> we don't need a formal motion or
[32:21] » we don't need a formal motion or
[32:21] anything like that.
[32:22] No, I just wanted to make sure you guys
[32:23] were okay with the form letter that he
[32:24] put together that when I get a
[32:26] complaint, I'll respond with this and
[32:27] then we'll still forward you all the
[32:29] emails that come to you. Anyways,
[32:30] >> we can look flip them over and get a
[32:32] » we can look flip them over and get a
[32:32] sense of what's going on and do more
[32:33] with them or
[32:34] >> and the first two pages are obviously
[32:36] » and the first two pages are obviously
[32:36] the ones you did get forwarded. So,
[32:37] that's all that's in the packet there.
[32:40] >> So, for the next few minutes,
[32:43] » So, for the next few minutes,
[32:43] >> thank you.
[32:43] » thank you.
[32:43] >> We have here
[32:45] » We have here
[32:45] >> um we've got on the back of our here's
[32:49] » um we've got on the back of our here's
[32:49] the uh the write up of discussion from
[32:53] last uh last last meeting. So I want to
[32:56] make sure before this uh goes to council
[33:00] that this is what we want to say. So
[33:04] I'll let's open up the discussion.
[33:07] Give me your thoughts,
[33:10] concerns.
[33:12] I mean
[33:12] >> I think it's great.
[33:16] Do we need to add anything?
[33:21] » Greg Miller,
[33:23] >> I think you guys talked about doing a
[33:25] » I think you guys talked about doing a
[33:25] survey and that and you guys are talking
[33:29] a lot about engaging with citizens and
[33:31] that's a very small part of this. So if
[33:33] you guys want to discuss that and have
[33:35] council formally approve that, you'll
[33:37] want to include that in your work plan.
[33:40] >> And Joe, how did your discussion go with
[33:42] » And Joe, how did your discussion go with
[33:42] um who did you have a chance to speak to
[33:44] them about putting on some sort of
[33:45] public discussion.
[33:46] >> Yes, I talked to Captain Let me give you
[33:49] » Yes, I talked to Captain Let me give you
[33:49] the update on that.
[33:50] >> Great. Yeah, we uh generally u thought
[33:54] » Great. Yeah, we uh generally u thought
[33:54] it was a a good idea, but there are some
[33:57] steps that we have to still take and
[33:58] that's one. Uh there's there'll be
[34:00] questions about the open public meeting,
[34:04] how that fits into a citizens or if it
[34:07] applies. So,
[34:09] there will be again she wants talked to
[34:13] the council. I think she's actually
[34:14] talked to the council about maybe
[34:18] discussing all the citizens advisor
[34:21] groups
[34:22] >> and creating a set of you know
[34:24] » and creating a set of you know
[34:24] guidelines
[34:25] >> operating procedures.
[34:26] » operating procedures.
[34:26] >> Yeah. Yeah. And and personally I I do
[34:29] » Yeah. Yeah. And and personally I I do
[34:29] have a problem with this being a public
[34:30] facing group. I do not think we should
[34:32] be a public facing group.
[34:33] >> Yeah.
[34:34] » Yeah.
[34:34] >> So
[34:34] » So
[34:34] >> so so that's um
[34:37] » so so that's um
[34:37] >> Yeah. So, um I um you know there are
[34:40] » Yeah. So, um I um you know there are
[34:40] some certainly some really good points
[34:41] to it where the public gets a chance to
[34:44] speak to folks that and um perhaps more
[34:47] openly from the official folks could say
[34:49] what's uh within their domain probably
[34:51] officially.
[34:52] >> Steve, what if we if we had something
[34:54] » Steve, what if we if we had something
[34:54] was a I mean we we maybe every other
[34:57] meeting we
[34:58] >> Well, I just think I I don't know how
[35:00] » Well, I just think I I don't know how
[35:00] productive it's going to be. I think
[35:01] we're going to get a lot of people and
[35:03] like I was telling Joe, it's going to
[35:04] turn into a gripe
[35:06] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[35:06] » Yeah. Yeah.
[35:06] >> session. I used
[35:08] » session. I used
[35:08] >> I used I used a different word than
[35:09] » I used I used a different word than
[35:09] that. Um but um and we're going to get
[35:13] the we're going to get people in. It's
[35:14] like the the lizard people run the FAA
[35:17] and it gave me brain cancer, right?
[35:20] >> You know, and I I have a feeling that's
[35:22] » You know, and I I have a feeling that's
[35:22] what it's going to devolve into. I I
[35:25] think if we do a public-f facing
[35:26] meeting, it has to be something very
[35:29] specific or we go out to groups who are
[35:33] already engaged. You know, civic groups
[35:35] like Rotary or something that are
[35:37] already engaged in the community. But
[35:39] >> this is a public facing meeting. We just
[35:41] » this is a public facing meeting. We just
[35:41] don't have a public comment section in
[35:42] the agenda. It's open to the public.
[35:44] >> I know, but there's not like this, you
[35:46] » I know, but there's not like this, you
[35:46] know, here here's all of our here's all
[35:48] of our complaints, right? But do you
[35:50] think that um it would add value for the
[35:53] residents to feel as if they have a a
[35:56] forum where they can at least speak? Um
[35:59] >> not not when we we can't show immediate
[36:03] » not not when we we can't show immediate
[36:03] responses to them. They're going to say,
[36:05] "Oh, I come to the meeting all the time
[36:06] and I complain and I don't get
[36:08] >> we have to make sure the focus is around
[36:10] » we have to make sure the focus is around
[36:10] information um dissemination of things
[36:14] that we know and understand. maybe some
[36:16] basic education about um some pollution
[36:19] issues and noise issues um in general
[36:22] terms um and level of field there and
[36:25] they can give feedback but when they do
[36:27] have specific complaints I do think it
[36:29] can I do think your concerns are very
[36:32] well justified. We have to find a way to
[36:34] avoid that by having themes for the
[36:37] particular meetings I think very clearly
[36:39] um and lay out some really general
[36:41] guidelines but that is a concern.
[36:42] >> Yeah.
[36:43] » Yeah.
[36:43] >> Well okay for for the discussion let's
[36:46] » Well okay for for the discussion let's
[36:46] Is that one of our should that be on our
[36:49] list of things we might want to provide
[36:50] here as
[36:52] >> yeah this is working for let's go to say
[36:57] » yeah this is working for let's go to say
[36:57] maybe to the other end where we are not
[37:02] facing group it's just council considers
[37:04] us we are the citizens
[37:06] >> we are the citizens
[37:07] » we are the citizens
[37:07] >> citizen advisories and our charge is to
[37:10] » citizen advisories and our charge is to
[37:10] sit here and discuss this like we do and
[37:15] come up with
[37:17] I'm trying to look the right word. It's
[37:19] almost like a position paper or you know
[37:21] your citizens all five of us think that
[37:24] the city should
[37:28] >> whatever.
[37:28] » whatever.
[37:28] >> Yeah. I I look at it as
[37:30] » Yeah. I I look at it as
[37:30] >> and we forward that to the city council
[37:32] » and we forward that to the city council
[37:32] and they look at
[37:34] >> or hear from the residents. I want to
[37:36] » or hear from the residents. I want to
[37:36] hear for that's why the survey perhaps
[37:38] these public meetings gives us more um
[37:40] engagement with the community so we have
[37:43] um a wider field of view for their
[37:45] concerns which we can um um distill into
[37:49] some some some additional policy
[37:51] guidance to
[37:51] >> Yeah. I I just think with us we're not
[37:53] » Yeah. I I just think with us we're not
[37:54] the council we're not public employees
[37:57] >> that that feedback needs to be going
[37:59] » that that feedback needs to be going
[37:59] through the council and not through
[38:02] someone. I I guess when what when I
[38:04] think about our group is that we're
[38:07] we're going through the SAMP and we're
[38:09] going through all this stuff and saying,
[38:10] "Hey, city council, do you know this?"
[38:12] And the city council needs to be showing
[38:14] us leadership and saying, "Hey, we need
[38:17] you all to delve into this. We don't
[38:19] fully understand this, right?" And and
[38:24] you know, I see us having a u um you
[38:27] know, a a regular spot on the city
[38:30] council agenda to, you know, to educate
[38:33] the council on, hey, here's what this
[38:36] stuff is saying. Here's what you wanted
[38:38] us to know about. You know, you you
[38:40] wanted us to uh to dive into and and
[38:43] give you our take on these things. So
[38:46] maybe what we could do instead of this
[38:47] one at the bottom is that a bullet point
[38:49] and what I've written together kind of
[38:50] is engage with citizens for additional
[38:53] information and understanding of
[38:54] community concerns including through
[38:56] surveys or one-on-one communication.
[38:59] >> Yeah. Yeah. I think we just sort of
[39:00] » Yeah. Yeah. I think we just sort of
[39:00] worked that. Yeah.
[39:02] >> I I
[39:06] think we just have to be careful about
[39:09] in other words the city council is going
[39:11] to go out and hire some experts. So they
[39:15] wants to dive deeply into
[39:20] a particular factor
[39:23] of the NEA for
[39:27] the sa for the sample. I I'm not sure
[39:30] that they're going to come to us and
[39:31] say, "Hey, take a look at this. Tell us
[39:33] what you think." I think they're to
[39:35] their experts.
[39:36] >> So, I'm not sure that
[39:40] » So, I'm not sure that
[39:40] >> that is going to be part of our charge.
[39:43] » that is going to be part of our charge.
[39:43] >> This gets right to the right to the
[39:45] » This gets right to the right to the
[39:45] heart of what our organization um here
[39:47] is really for. Um and um and I don't
[39:51] think we've defined it completely yet um
[39:54] well enough. Um I'm just I think
[39:56] exploring ideas like public engagement
[39:59] um might be just one of the things we
[40:01] could add value on. I don't think that
[40:02] that was done with the previous advisory
[40:05] um committee or I'm not sure. Um Joey,
[40:07] I'm asking you.
[40:09] >> I'm not sure.
[40:10] » I'm not sure.
[40:10] >> Yeah. But I would like to do something
[40:11] » Yeah. But I would like to do something
[40:11] successful um and um
[40:14] But you're concerned about you know how
[40:16] it would devolve into just a griping
[40:18] session. uh certainly would come up
[40:20] quickly and I think for if we are nimble
[40:23] we might be able to deal with that but
[40:24] it' be great to hear from them and also
[40:26] share um you know share some details
[40:29] about um real estate concerns and I can
[40:31] share a little bit about what I know
[40:32] about um airport operations um in a
[40:34] non-official way um and have an open
[40:37] discussion just as citizens together
[40:40] >> um and it could add some value I think
[40:42] » um and it could add some value I think
[40:42] um but
[40:44] >> well that's what I was thinking maybe if
[40:45] » well that's what I was thinking maybe if
[40:45] we did let's say quarter quarterly We we
[40:49] have two meetings of of our own and then
[40:53] the third meeting um we we are open. I I
[40:57] I think particularly with everything
[40:59] coming down the shoot quickly and time
[41:02] pressures that it's ask question.
[41:06] Do you have any idea what timeline
[41:09] means?
[41:13] So by the time we get through the NEPA
[41:16] appeal and then we go through the whole
[41:18] process. I guess what I'm trying to
[41:20] gauge is how long
[41:23] >> do that if we're going to be going out
[41:25] » do that if we're going to be going out
[41:25] and explaining.
[41:26] >> Yeah.
[41:26] » Yeah.
[41:26] >> How many meetings should we
[41:28] » How many meetings should we
[41:28] >> Right. Right. NEPA.
[41:29] » Right. Right. NEPA.
[41:29] >> It took them, let's see, on the Nepa, it
[41:31] » It took them, let's see, on the Nepa, it
[41:32] took them
[41:34] I'm trying to think of how long it took
[41:36] them from the
[41:38] draft close to
[41:42] the um
[41:46] took him about nine
[41:49] six to nine months to respond to all the
[41:52] comments. So assuming it takes the same
[41:55] amount of time to respond to all the SEA
[41:57] comments, you know, and it's supposed to
[41:59] come out in around quarter 1. I'm
[42:01] hearing rumors of spring. I don't know
[42:03] if where those rumors came from, so I
[42:05] can't confirm those rumors. So
[42:09] >> 26 or
[42:10] » 26 or
[42:10] >> Yeah. No, quarter 1 to 2020 or 26 is
[42:13] » Yeah. No, quarter 1 to 2020 or 26 is
[42:13] when this the draft EIS is supposed to
[42:15] come out.
[42:17] >> Um, we have been told we'll get 30 days
[42:19] » Um, we have been told we'll get 30 days
[42:19] notice. So, I can guarantee you it's not
[42:20] coming out on the 1 of January because
[42:22] we haven't been given 30 days notice
[42:24] yet. Um, so then there'll be a comment
[42:27] period. We don't know. Again, we've been
[42:29] asking for them to give us more comment
[42:30] period time than before. I've been
[42:32] begging them to give us 30 days. I don't
[42:34] think that's going to happen, but we'll
[42:36] get something like 15 to 20 day comment
[42:38] period. Um, and then they need to
[42:42] however time it takes them to respond to
[42:44] all those comments before they release
[42:45] the final EIS. That could be anywhere
[42:48] from if they really have enough experts
[42:50] a month, but it took them about nine
[42:53] months to do it on the NEPA. So, if
[42:56] we're assuming nine around nine months,
[42:58] we're going to be looking at a final EIS
[43:00] towards the end of the year.
[43:02] >> Although, because so much of it has been
[43:04] » Although, because so much of it has been
[43:04] covered before, I think they probably
[43:05] are going to take advantage that could
[43:07] be sped up a little bit. I wouldn't
[43:08] expect it to take that long. Do you
[43:09] think they're going to have a public um
[43:12] forum where much like the port did? They
[43:14] have to have a public meeting as part of
[43:16] the draft EIS.
[43:17] >> That's the port commission.
[43:19] » That's the port commission.
[43:20] >> The port is doing it. The port is doing
[43:22] » The port is doing it. The port is doing
[43:22] the SEIPA where the FAA did the NEPA.
[43:24] >> So those meetings will take place down.
[43:27] » So those meetings will take place down.
[43:27] >> I'm sure they'll do No, I'm sure they'll
[43:28] » I'm sure they'll do No, I'm sure they'll
[43:28] do what they did for the NEPA and
[43:30] they'll have three. They'll have one
[43:32] around here at least the open houses and
[43:34] things like that.
[43:36] >> So what I'm hearing you say is there's
[43:37] » So what I'm hearing you say is there's
[43:38] going to be 12 meetings
[43:41] with this group.
[43:43] we will be
[43:45] [clears throat]
[43:46] >> for the end of the process.
[43:50] » for the end of the process.
[43:50] >> So that gives us some idea.
[43:52] » So that gives us some idea.
[43:52] >> So there could be a I mean one of the
[43:54] » So there could be a I mean one of the
[43:54] one or two of those could be maybe first
[43:58] one see how it goes.
[44:00] >> It's a cluster. We'll we won't do that
[44:02] » It's a cluster. We'll we won't do that
[44:02] again.
[44:03] >> Yeah.
[44:03] » Yeah.
[44:03] >> Yeah. Well, one of the topics could be
[44:05] » Yeah. Well, one of the topics could be
[44:05] could be the um be sea, but some other
[44:09] topic could be general
[44:11] noise
[44:12] >> and the city held a public meeting for
[44:15] » and the city held a public meeting for
[44:15] NEPA. So, it'll be up to the council
[44:16] whether they want to do that again for
[44:18] SEPA. So, if we do that, obviously the
[44:20] committee would be invited out to to
[44:22] that, but we had a non-counsel public
[44:25] meeting where we give kind of a
[44:27] presentation, help people understand how
[44:29] to respond to the SEIPA
[44:31] >> document and things like that. And so,
[44:33] » document and things like that. And so,
[44:33] Um, we will most likely be asking
[44:36] council if they want to do that again.
[44:38] Um, obviously it costs money to bring
[44:40] those professionals in to do that. So,
[44:43] um, but it was done for NEPA or whether
[44:46] we'll just say, "Hey, the NEPA letters
[44:48] there. The studies really haven't
[44:49] changed. You guys can take that previous
[44:52] template and turn it around for SEIPA."
[44:54] So,
[44:55] >> another quick question. When does the
[44:58] » another quick question. When does the
[44:58] city news
[45:01] >> the will the city current or the city?
[45:05] » the will the city current or the city?
[45:05] >> I just know that's quarterly.
[45:07] » I just know that's quarterly.
[45:07] >> It just came out. So
[45:09] » It just came out. So
[45:09] >> yes.
[45:10] » yes.
[45:10] >> So probably spring again is you know
[45:14] » So probably spring again is you know
[45:14] >> I think it just came out. So my guess
[45:15] » I think it just came out. So my guess
[45:15] would be spring. I'd have to double
[45:17] check.
[45:20] That would be a good
[45:22] place to whatever we came up with a good
[45:25] place to start
[45:26] >> write an article for the current that's
[45:28] » write an article for the current that's
[45:28] not a bad idea.
[45:30] >> So, okay, where are we? Can we agree
[45:32] » So, okay, where are we? Can we agree
[45:32] that we need to one do a survey?
[45:35] >> Yeah, let's just uh Yeah, let's just
[45:38] » Yeah, let's just uh Yeah, let's just
[45:38] talk about this for one second. So, um
[45:41] you know, I I I thought at first that
[45:43] would be a pretty good idea to get a
[45:45] sense of how the residents so we we can
[45:47] provide some at least some data to the
[45:51] uh to the um various groups we're
[45:53] engaged with about what our residents
[45:55] are concerned with. I don't think we're
[45:57] going to see a lot of surprises though.
[45:59] My guess is it's going to follow the the
[46:01] same complaints um and those have been
[46:03] well very well categorized on a number
[46:05] of different um venues already. So I
[46:08] don't know if we're going to get a whole
[46:09] lot of new interesting information. It
[46:12] would be nice to know whether noise is
[46:14] their biggest concern or traffic's their
[46:16] biggest concern or or health and what
[46:18] aspects of health so we can tie that
[46:20] into results that we want to see um
[46:24] exemplified in the SEIPA um and um and
[46:28] and and um cumulative effects that they
[46:30] said they would address there. Um but I
[46:32] but I don't know I mean but I'd like to
[46:34] do the survey um and looking for the
[46:37] right tool. So Joe, they um from the cab
[46:41] perspective, the they've uh worked hard
[46:45] to get a citywide
[46:49] uh survey out for the strategic plan and
[46:52] that has been going fairly well in terms
[46:56] of I think they have over a thousand
[46:58] responses. Um Katherine would have been
[47:02] happy with 250.
[47:04] >> Okay. So, but there was a you know
[47:06] » Okay. So, but there was a you know
[47:06] that's a 10 person I mean it's a tw I
[47:08] don't know how big the committee is but
[47:09] anyway there was a full that lot of
[47:13] effort went into getting that out u two
[47:16] takeaways from that it can be done um it
[47:19] would be effective but second will there
[47:22] be survey fatigue if they get if they're
[47:24] hit with another one uh three months
[47:26] later maybe they'll like it like these
[47:28] surveys
[47:28] >> I wrote up one I think I I sent it out
[47:30] » I wrote up one I think I I sent it out
[47:30] to everybody a little generic survey um
[47:32] on um issues around Seek airport. Um,
[47:36] and it wouldn't have to be very many
[47:37] questions, right? You could you could be
[47:39] done in less than 20 questions and it'd
[47:41] be good to have as a in our back pocket
[47:42] for feedback if it's well represented.
[47:45] >> That's the baseline, right? That's the
[47:47] » That's the baseline, right? That's the
[47:47] baseline.
[47:48] >> Be good to know
[47:51] » Be good to know
[47:51] >> ASAP or wait for
[47:53] » ASAP or wait for
[47:53] >> Well, I think it's going to take some
[47:54] » Well, I think it's going to take some
[47:54] time for us to discuss questions and do
[47:56] some of that. Can't be done while this
[47:58] other survey is going. ASA well I mean
[48:00] this this survey is is is wrapping up
[48:03] and the strategic plan process will be
[48:06] wrapping up as early as this spring.
[48:09] >> Okay.
[48:09] » Okay.
[48:10] >> Um
[48:10] » Um
[48:10] >> late late spring.
[48:12] » late late spring.
[48:12] >> So so we would we ours would follow that
[48:14] » So so we would we ours would follow that
[48:14] and maybe good to have it in the summer
[48:16] when the flights pick up and there's
[48:19] more concern. Okay. So maybe there
[48:21] wouldn't be such a bad thing. So let's
[48:23] just make sure that's one of our um work
[48:25] in our work plan to um accomplish that
[48:27] and um provide a summary of those
[48:29] results to the right folks
[48:30] >> and that'll be timing on that will be
[48:33] » and that'll be timing on that will be
[48:33] late spring early summer
[48:35] >> rightclude that
[48:37] » rightclude that
[48:37] >> so survey
[48:43] city currents will that's obviously once
[48:46] we get a work going
[48:49] what do they do that three times a year
[48:51] >> four But but the issue is when you know
[48:54] » four But but the issue is when you know
[48:54] when are there publishing deadlines? I
[48:55] mean you know maybe you might want
[48:57] something in January to before it gets
[48:59] in in April. There's a real lag
[49:01] involved.
[49:02] >> Be nice to have a complete work.
[49:04] » Be nice to have a complete work.
[49:04] >> Yeah.
[49:06] » Yeah.
[49:06] >> Yeah. We're not I don't think our lag is
[49:08] » Yeah. We're not I don't think our lag is
[49:08] like that. So if it goes if it does if
[49:10] we're able to keep the January 22nd date
[49:13] I don't see a problem with it being in a
[49:15] spring.
[49:15] >> Okay.
[49:16] » Okay.
[49:16] >> City current is my guess. Again I don't
[49:18] » City current is my guess. Again I don't
[49:18] know the exact date. And the 22nd is
[49:21] when we would actually
[49:23] make a presentation to city council. All
[49:26] right.
[49:32] » I think we should try I think we should
[49:33] try
[49:36] next year
[49:48] after that.
[49:50] So, but the immediate thing is for 12.
[49:53] >> Yeah. Well, fine. Let's do that. And
[49:55] » Yeah. Well, fine. Let's do that. And
[49:55] then why don't we plan for a a March
[49:59] public? We'd have two meetings and think
[50:01] about having in March and and the
[50:03] meeting in March, I would think, could
[50:06] help inform our survey, which is going
[50:08] out, you know, a quarter later perhaps.
[50:12] Uh, and I think it would be a and and
[50:14] there'll have been I think lots of time
[50:17] for things to percolate. They'll be
[50:19] public interest. The weather won't be
[50:21] bad. Um, so and it'll give us some time
[50:25] to plan it out between um, you know,
[50:28] going to the council next month and then
[50:31] we'll have February to sort of talk
[50:34] about it.
[50:35] >> Yeah. And then we'll have some good
[50:36] » Yeah. And then we'll have some good
[50:36] guidelines and some feedback about the
[50:38] process that's approved. Some of the
[50:40] concerns about how do we control a
[50:42] meeting like that? What kind of
[50:43] presentation materials we want to do
[50:45] >> and um and who's going to be
[50:47] » and um and who's going to be
[50:47] responsible? What piece?
[50:48] >> Yeah.
[50:48] » Yeah.
[50:48] >> Sure. Um you know I I think it's worth a
[50:51] » Sure. Um you know I I think it's worth a
[50:51] try. I I think it's might be very
[50:53] useful.
[50:55] >> I disagree. But we we all don't have to
[50:57] » I disagree. But we we all don't have to
[50:57] agree, you know. So, uh, um, I I I just
[51:01] think, you know, if we go forward with
[51:03] it, we we just need to make sure that
[51:05] we, you know, uh, I I think and we'll
[51:08] talk about what it looks like, right?
[51:09] But I think it's going to have to be um,
[51:11] very focused,
[51:12] >> very focused.
[51:13] » very focused.
[51:13] >> That completely, that's going to help a
[51:15] » That completely, that's going to help a
[51:15] lot. It's and I think, you know, we're a
[51:18] lot of us a lot of us have some pretty
[51:19] good skills. Hopefully, we can balance
[51:21] it and make it a productive meeting, um,
[51:23] an informative meeting.
[51:24] >> Yeah. But um it'll be interesting to see
[51:28] » Yeah. But um it'll be interesting to see
[51:28] how um how concerned our citizens really
[51:31] are and whether they're really looking
[51:32] for a place to um express their concerns
[51:35] and we just need to respond
[51:36] appropriately um to those with
[51:38] information um technical information um
[51:41] and um and and and let them know you
[51:44] have someone to talk to. We can address
[51:45] them
[51:46] >> address them. And I I think that I think
[51:48] » address them. And I I think that I think
[51:48] the folks want to be heard more than
[51:49] anything else. Imagine if the folks, you
[51:52] know, that are complaining about things
[51:53] actually had somebody that would listen
[51:54] to them. Um, and um, I think that way
[51:58] may help the community work this through
[52:01] as as we all have to.
[52:02] >> Well, I think you know, for me, what
[52:05] » Well, I think you know, for me, what
[52:05] success looks like,
[52:08] we get the rest of
[52:13] [laughter]
[52:14] that.
[52:16] >> Yeah.
[52:19] No matter what the court says or you
[52:21] know there's going to be impacts
[52:24] >> and that if you're if you're not willing
[52:27] » and that if you're if you're not willing
[52:27] to have a serious discussion about some
[52:29] kind of mitigation for those impacts at
[52:32] least
[52:33] be very honest about
[52:37] the severity what the impacts are going
[52:39] to be and when we can expect them to
[52:42] occur so that as citizens property
[52:45] owners
[52:46] for people that maybe are, you know,
[52:48] trying to plan for their retirement or
[52:51] or where they're going to raise their
[52:52] kids and send their kids to school so
[52:54] people can make decisions.
[52:56] >> And that to me is they owe us that. They
[53:00] » And that to me is they owe us that. They
[53:00] owe us the transparency. They owe us the
[53:02] honesty to say, "Okay, Joe, here's
[53:05] what's going to happen. You don't like
[53:07] it,
[53:10] but they owe us. They owe us that." Does
[53:14] that need That's really clear, Joe. Does
[53:16] Did that need to be in our threepoint
[53:19] the the transparency part of what we're
[53:21] committed to?
[53:23] >> Can you add something like that?
[53:25] » Can you add something like that?
[53:25] >> So, here's what I'm kind of putting
[53:27] » So, here's what I'm kind of putting
[53:27] right now as I'm trying to type
[53:28] something up. So, I've got engage with
[53:30] citizens and the community for
[53:32] additional information and understanding
[53:34] community concerns through
[53:37] surveys, one-on-one com communication,
[53:40] support or hold a public meeting to
[53:43] allow citizens to express their concerns
[53:44] if needed, engage in community through
[53:47] city currents articles about the
[53:48] committee and activity.
[53:51] >> It's good
[53:52] » It's good
[53:52] >> because because the
[53:53] » because because the
[53:53] >> I'll re yeah
[53:55] » I'll re yeah
[53:55] >> finesse the wording as typing as we're
[53:57] » finesse the wording as typing as we're
[53:57] talking. So,
[53:58] >> because think coming to council, you
[54:00] » because think coming to council, you
[54:00] only get a few minutes. Um going to the
[54:02] uh Port of Seattle presentations, it's
[54:05] so diverse, it's hard, you don't get the
[54:07] sense that one person's listening. Um
[54:09] and um um and so there's not a great
[54:12] venue for the residents to have any time
[54:15] on with uh folks that um uh have some
[54:20] impact to the process um for SAMP and
[54:23] other things. So yeah, just I don't know
[54:27] seems like
[54:27] >> So Rebecca I uh so Joe and I have this
[54:30] » So Rebecca I uh so Joe and I have this
[54:30] policy start meeting that starts in five
[54:33] minutes
[54:34] >> and can
[54:35] » and can
[54:36] >> Did you want to approve the minutes? I
[54:37] » Did you want to approve the minutes? I
[54:37] think that's the last thing on here is
[54:38] the minutes from the last meeting.
[54:40] >> So, just one last thing, I hope you're
[54:41] » So, just one last thing, I hope you're
[54:41] right, and I'm going to do everything I
[54:44] can to help make sure it's right. I just
[54:47] hope we look back and say, "Wow, that
[54:48] was a big waste of time."
[54:51] >> It could be a waste of time. Anyway,
[54:53] » It could be a waste of time. Anyway,
[54:53] >> do you want us to do you want to do some
[54:55] » do you want us to do you want to do some
[54:55] more word smithing on this and then have
[54:57] us take approve it at the next meeting?
[54:59] >> Right. But I need the minutes from the
[55:00] » Right. But I need the minutes from the
[55:00] last meeting approve that's in here.
[55:02] That's just this one page. No, that's
[55:04] just that's
[55:05] >> No, that that's just an attachment to
[55:06] » No, that that's just an attachment to
[55:06] the agenda.
[55:07] >> So move.
[55:08] » So move.
[55:08] >> Okay.
[55:09] » Okay.
[55:09] >> Second.
[55:10] » Second.
[55:10] >> Favor.
[55:11] » Favor.
[55:11] >> I
[55:12] » I
[55:12] >> Okay.
[55:14] » Okay.
[55:14] >> Is that all we needed to do and take
[55:16] » Is that all we needed to do and take
[55:16] >> that's it. [laughter]
[55:18] » that's it. [laughter]
[55:18] To your point it
[55:20] >> start meetings
[55:21] » start meetings
[55:21] have to have consensus. I mean that's
[55:24] they Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of a joke. I
[55:26] guess I'm I'm looking at a business
[55:28] perspective where it's like, okay, we
[55:30] don't all agree, but we've made a
[55:32] decision and whether we agree or not,
[55:33] we're
[55:34] >> that's where we're going.
[55:36] » that's where we're going.
[55:36] >> A word that send it out via email, see
[55:39] » A word that send it out via email, see
[55:39] if I have a general consensus, you can
[55:40] do a formal approval at the next
[55:41] meeting, but the agenda for the 22nd,
[55:43] would be due the same day as your
[55:45] meeting. So, if I have a general
[55:46] consensus, I can work on it from that.
[55:48] And then at the meeting, if you guys
[55:50] formally approve the work plan for
[55:51] recommendation to council, then we'll
[55:53] make sure we'll get it right on the
[55:54] agenda for the 22. Okay. And we don't
[55:57] Okay, so it's holiday season, so
[55:59] everyone's going to be busy, but if we
[56:01] need to have an offsite meeting or
[56:03] something like that after the first
[56:05] year, let's just
[56:08] >> have this back.
[56:09] » have this back.
[56:09] >> Yeah.
[56:10] » Yeah.
[56:10] >> I think that would be a good idea before
[56:12] » I think that would be a good idea before
[56:12] the 22nd.
[56:16] » Yeah.
[56:19] » So, um I sent you a note today,
[56:24] you know, We're sort of orphaned here. I
[56:27] know. Kick us out. But
[56:28] >> yeah, unfortunately I don't have a staff
[56:29] » yeah, unfortunately I don't have a staff
[56:29] member scheduled to be here for two
[56:31] hours. So it would
[56:32] >> Hey, do you have the login information?
[56:38] » I I checked with the library. They have
[56:40] a room and tables, but they're only open
[56:42] for another hour, not two hours.
[56:45] >> Well, it's an hour. I mean,
[56:46] » Well, it's an hour. I mean,
[56:46] >> faster.
[56:47] » faster.
[56:47] >> It shows two hours in the calendar
[56:49] » It shows two hours in the calendar
[56:49] invite, but
[56:50] >> Okay.
[56:51] » Okay.
[56:51] >> Hopefully you have some login. I didn't
[56:53] » Hopefully you have some login. I didn't
[56:53] get
[56:54] >> I can forward it to you.
[56:56] » I can forward it to you.
[56:56] >> I should have it.
[56:58] » I should have it.
[56:58] >> Do it and copy me anyway just in case.
[57:05] » I mean it just comes from Cheryl. I can
[57:06] forward it. That's what I'm gonna That
[57:08] has the Zoom. So I'll forward you the
[57:09] calendar but Wednesday.
[57:11] >> No, that's for today's
[57:14] » No, that's for today's
[57:14] that wasn't available.
[57:17] >> The Wednesday at home.
[57:18] » The Wednesday at home.
[57:18] Lindsay when I get
[57:22] >> right
[57:23] » right
[57:23] >> but for the policy committee and the
[57:25] » but for the policy committee and the
[57:25] noise committee
[57:27] >> I wouldn't mind knowing when those are
[57:29] » I wouldn't mind knowing when those are
[57:29] >> supposed to be on a calendar
[57:30] » supposed to be on a calendar
[57:30] >> that's what I'm saying on the calendar
[57:31] » that's what I'm saying on the calendar
[57:31] it has the the Zoom link so I'm sending
[57:33] it to you right now
[57:36] >> I I'm forwarding the calendar so I'm
[57:38] » I I'm forwarding the calendar so I'm
[57:38] assuming it's
[57:40] >> just mess up
[57:40] » just mess up
[57:40] >> I think they send out one at a time it
[57:42] » I think they send out one at a time it
[57:42] doesn't look like it's all of them so I