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Good evening, everyone, and welcome to Durham City Hall.

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It's good to have you all here tonight. Colleagues, it's great

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to see you. If you will join me for a moment of silence. I'll

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now pass it over to Council Member Rist for the Pledge of

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Allegiance. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. If it is

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your practice, I invite you to rise with me and recite the

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Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

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United States of America, and to the Republic for which it

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stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all. All right. All right. Madam clerk, if you

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will. All right. I am going to call the roll on. I'm Mayor

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Williams, and I'm here. Mayor Pro Tem.

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Here. Council Member Rist here. Councilmember Cooke.

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Here. Council Member Kopac here.

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Council member Baker here. Council Member Burris here.

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Thank you all so much. Madam clerk, everyone is here

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tonight. If you couldn't see. All right, we will start with.

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Our ceremonial items. And the first one will be National

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Poetry Month, read by Council Member Burris. She is not going

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to say. I'm just giving her this for the first time. She's

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going to say that she was well prepared and asked earlier this

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month if she would read the proclamation for tonight. And

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she'll be joined by our poet laureate, Chris Vitello. All

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right. See you. Thank you. Good afternoon. And

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I had a whole week to read this. Thank you so much. Mayor

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Williamstown. Okay. All right. So we're as National Poetry

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Month was established in 1996 by the Academy of American

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Poets to celebrate poetry's vital place in our culture and

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its enduring power to inspire, healed and unite communities.

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And whereas poetry enriches civic life by giving voice to

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diverse experiences, preserving history, advancing dialogue,

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and nurturing empathy. Our local poets, educators,

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librarians, and arts organizations cultivate

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creativity in classrooms, libraries, bookstores, and

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community spaces, ensuring that poetry remains accessible to

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all residents, to residents of all ages. And whereas the City

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of Durham Poet Laureate program was established in 2021 with

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the inaugural Poet Laureate appointment of D.J. Rogers from

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2022 to 2023 and our current current laureate Chris Vitello.

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Hello. You got it. Thank you. Appointed in 2024 through 2027.

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And Whereas the City of Durham is committed to supporting the

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arts as an essential public service that enriches civic

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life, nurtures imagination and strengthens community

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connection through the city's Durham Poet Laureate program,

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supporting 910 students in 2025 through learning opportunities.

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And Whereas, the city. Whereas the arts in Durham are vital to

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our quality of life, our economy and reflect the beauty

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and vibrancy of our community. Poetry through reading,

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writing, performance and public art strengthens literacy,

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supports lifelong learning and contributes to our local

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economy and cultural landscape. Now, therefore, I. Leonardo

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Williams mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina, do

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hereby proclaim April 2026 as National Poetry Month in the

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City of Durham and encourage residents to celebrate by

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reading a poem, writing a poem, attending a poetry event, and

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sharing the power of words with others. Witness my hand the

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corporate seal of the City of Durham, North Carolina. This

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20th day of April, 2026. Thank you so much. Thank you

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madam. I have a few words. Thank you

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for reading that and thank you for the proclamation. We

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probably have a ton of poets in this room. Durham is full of

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poets. So is the whole area. When I proposed a theme of

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poetry everywhere, when I applied to be the Poet

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laureate, that was that was something that I was really

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committed to. Last week I was at the Hill Learning Center

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working with kids. I wrote at the Duke Children's Hospital

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prom on Friday night, the Scrap Exchange or Earth Day shebang.

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On Saturday, I was teaching a workshop on Memory Poems this

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morning at the East Regional Library. I'll be doing other

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Library Fest things. Something tomorrow night at the main

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branch just across the street. And and this month we're doing

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another cool thing to demonstrate this theme as you

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walk around downtown. Hopefully this coming weekend, there will

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be maybe some poems on the sidewalk that you can discover

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and stop and read, maybe even interact with physically. So

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keep your eyes on the ground as well as the sky, and look for

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some poems. And then on April 30th, if I can plug an event,

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over 20 poets will be reading. It's a reading that we're doing

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for the second year in a row called The Reading for the end

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of the world. Since the world seems perpetually to be ending.

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And then tomorrow we figure that out all over again. It'll

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be at the auditorium of the main branch of the library 6 to

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9 p.m., 22 poets from Durham and the area all reading about

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6 or 7 minutes each. Sounds like a long night. Three hours

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of poetry, but it will go fast. And it's a testament to how

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many poets we have in the area. And I wrote a quirky little

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Durham poem, if I may read it to you all. I understand hope,

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for Durham is a theme that will be used this week. So I wrote

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this poem. Hope. Hope is a dangerous thing. What if you

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had a hope and then had to follow through with it? What if

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others shared your hope and we all had to make it happen

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together? Hope for Durham in these fraught times, for both

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people and birds, means taking the risk that the future we

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hope for requires. We could huddle alone, hopeless at home,

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anywhere. But not in Durham, not here. Thank you all so

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much. Thank you sir. Thank you.

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Good evening. I would like to invite up Ashley Eason from the

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Tuberous Sclerosis Complex Alliance. Proclamation. Whereas

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tuberous sclerosis complex, TSC is a rare genetic disorder that

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leads to the growth of non-cancerous benign tumors in

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vital organs, including the brain, heart, kidneys, skin,

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liver and lungs. And whereas approximately 50,000 Americans

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and 1 million people worldwide are living with tuberous

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sclerosis complex, a disease that currently has no cure. And

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whereas TSC is a leading genetic cause of both epilepsy

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and autism, with varying degrees of severity in those

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affected. And whereas TSC affects individuals

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differently, with some experiencing severe

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complications and others remaining undiagnosed due to

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mild symptoms. And whereas TSC can result from a random

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genetic mutation or be inherited through family lines,

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the impact of TSC can lead to life threatening complications,

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including brain fluid build up, heart issues, kidney damage,

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lung failure, increased risk of cancerous growths, and vision

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impairment. And whereas the prevalence of TSC is comparable

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to other well-known conditions such as Lou Gehrig's disease,

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ALS and cystic fibrosis, underscoring the need for

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greater awareness and understanding. And whereas the

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City of Durham is committed to raising awareness about

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tuberous sclerosis complex, supporting individuals with TSC

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and advocating for continued research and access to medical

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care. Now, therefore, I. Leonardo Williams, mayor of the

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City of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim. May 15th,

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2026 as Tuberous Sclerosis Complex Awareness Day in the

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City of Durham. Encourage all citizens to join this

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observance to promote awareness, understanding and

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support for individuals affected by TSC. Witness my

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hand in corporate seal, city of Durham on this day Leonardo

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Williams mayor, City of Durham. Thank you so much. Yes.

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Thank you. We want to thank the City of

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Durham for recognizing tuberous sclerosis through this

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meaningful proclamation for our family. This recognition is

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deeply personal. Our daughter, Nora, she's right here, has

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been living with TSC since birth. This rare genetic

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condition again causes benign tumors to grow in vital organs

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such as your brain, heart, kidneys, lungs, eyes and skin.

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For Nora and many others, these growths in the brain often lead

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to debilitating seizures. She has seizures on a daily basis.

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There's not a day that goes by that she doesn't have a seizure.

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And it also causes developmental delays. From her

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earliest days in the NICU to the many medical challenges she

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has faced, Nora has shown incredible strength. With the

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help of physical therapy, she began walking just four months

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shy of her third birthday, a milestone that meant everything

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to our family through speech therapy. She is learning

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American Sign Language to communicate and with

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occupational therapy, she is gaining the skills to navigate

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a world that isn't always built for her. Nora's journey is a

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powerful reminder of why awareness, research, and

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support matters so much. This proclamation helped shine a

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light on children like Nora and the thousands of others living

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with the complexities of TSC. It reminds us that their

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stories matter, their voices matter, and they are never

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alone. So thank you, City of Durham, for standing with

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families like ours and helping bring in hope, understanding

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and visibility to the TSC community. With gratitude from

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the East and family and the TSC of the Carolinas. Also on May

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2nd in Charlotte, North Carolina, will be having to

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step forward to TSC, where we're raising funds for

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research. So if you guys can come out, that would be nice.

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Thank you guys so much. Good evening to Randy McKay and

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Rebecca Lee from the Carolina Theatre. And actually all of

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the staff board members who are here. Come on and join us. Come

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on. There's a big crowd. This is a big event today. It's not

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often that we celebrate our 100th anniversary in Durham. So

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this is quite exciting. I am I have the great pleasure of

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being the City Council liaison to the Carolina Theatre, which

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has an amazing board and staff. And as you all know, it's a

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great institution in Durham. So glad that all these folks can

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be here. It's awesome. Thanks for coming everyone. Hey.

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Yay! All right. Okay. Whereas the

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Carolina Theatre of Durham first opened its doors in 1926

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as a centerpiece for entertainment, film, live

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performance and community gathering in downtown Durham.

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And whereas for 100 years, the Carolina Theatre has served as

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a cultural anchor, hosting films, concerts, theatrical

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productions, community events, educational programs, and film

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festivals that have enriched the lives of Durham residents

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and visitors, including the world premiere of the movies

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Bull Durham in 1988, The Best of Enemies in 2019, as well as

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live appearances by stars such as Katharine Hepburn, Ronald

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Reagan, Tallulah Bankhead, Jane Wyman, Montgomery Clift and

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Whereas. The theatre's historic architecture, marquee and

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interior spaces are emblematic of Durham's cultural heritage

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and contribute to the unique character and vitality of the

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downtown district. And whereas historic civil rights protests

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in the early 60s challenged the Carolina Theatre's own policy

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of racial segregation and ultimately led not only to full

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integration at the theatre, but also the recognition of youth

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led organizing tactics as a strategy that influenced the

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entire civil rights movement. Generations of Durham citizens,

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civic organizations, volunteers, donors, artists,

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and theater staff have contributed time, resources,

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and passion to preserve, restore, and sustain the

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Carolina Theatre as a welcoming public venue. And Whereas, the

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Carolina Theatre has supported local artists and non-profit

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organizations, promoted arts education, and help stimulate

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$10 million in direct economic impact, the City of Durham

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recognizes the role of the Carolina Theatre in advancing

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community engagement, cultural diversity, and the arts as

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essential elements of a vibrant and inclusive city. Now,

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therefore, I. Leonardo Williams, mayor of the City of

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Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim, I'm sorry,

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commemorate that 100th anniversary of the Carolina

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Theatre in the City of Durham and encourage residents to join

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in expressing deep appreciation for the 100 years of cultural,

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educational and civic contributions of the Carolina

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Theatre by participating in their centennial events and

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celebrating their rich history in Durham. Witness my hand in

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the corporate seal of the City of Durham, North Carolina, the

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16th day of March, 2026, Leonardo Williams mayor.

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100 there aren't that many institutions in any city that

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survive 100 years. So I want to thank mayor, council members

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and staff and our team and all the generations of leaders that

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have gone before us to keep this jewel in the heart of the

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city for 100 years. And thank you to our community members

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who have consistently rallied to support the theatre from

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saving it from demolition to demonstrating to ensure that it

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was open to all our community members, to supporting its

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programming, community initiatives and school

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education programs. The theater is important to everyone in

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this room and everyone in our community. Even if you've never

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entered our doors, because every year we add $10 million

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to Durham's economy, we support more than 400 full time jobs in

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this community and see 15,000 school students through our

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education programs. And we return a significant amount of

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tax base to city and county coffers, which funds all the

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other priorities. This council and our county may have. In

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fact, every dollar that the city gives to the Carolina

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Theatre returns this $12.50 to the city's economy. We're a

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good investment, so thank you. Thank you all again for the

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recognition and for your continuing support. And as Carl

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said and read in the proclamation, we are

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celebrating our centennial for all of 2026 down to the very

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last seconds of it, with a gala New Year's Eve event that will

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be announcing soon. So please come celebrate our centennial

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with us. Join us at the theatre or in the many events that we

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are throwing out in the community. But most of all,

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thank you for your support all these years and we look forward

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to what the next 100 will bring.

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And as the Army for Carolina Theater is leaving, I'll invite

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the Army for tenants to join me. If we have representatives

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from the Durham, Orange County Community Tennis Association,

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you know, Community Tennis Association, the US Tennis

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Association of North Carolina. Central Tennis Association.

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Future Eagles. All right. Thank you.

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All right. Thank you all for coming up. I. I don't know who

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sends more emails. Pickleball. Zoning cases or tennis.

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Might be. I think it might be. Yes. Thank

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you all so much. Council Member Burris wanted this one. I also

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wanted it. So we're both up here. I always tell the story

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of when. When I was in high school, we started a tennis

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team because we didn't see any black kids playing on TV. And

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so in Halifax County we started the tennis team. We got beat by

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everybody, but we didn't really care to win or lose. We wanted

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to be represented. And so it feels good to have started that

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and continue our passion for it. Also, it gives me great joy

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to be a graduate of nCCU with Council Member Burris and they

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are winning championships out here. So congratulations again.

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All right, so the proclamation reads today, whereas tennis is

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a sport that can be played throughout an individual's

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lifetime and is accessible to people of all ages, skill

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levels, physical abilities, and levels of fitness, regardless

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of environment. And whereas tennis provides significant

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benefits across multiple dimensions of health, and

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research has shown that individuals who actively play

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tennis as a form of cardiovascular exercise may add

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an average of 9.7 years to their expected lifespan,

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compared to second, sedentary individuals. Please get out and

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play tennis if you want to live a long life. And whereas the

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City of Durham offers numerous opportunities for individuals

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both new to the sport and experienced players to

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participate in tennis through its public parks, schools and

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clubs located throughout the city. And Whereas, the Durham

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community provides opportunities for social play,

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tennis instruction, competitive leagues for residents and

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non-residents, as well as school matches and tournaments

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that foster community engagement and athletic

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development. And whereas local organizations, including Doctor,

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CTA and US to North Carolina provide valuable resources,

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programs, events and leagues that enhance the tennis

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experience and promote participation in the sport

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throughout our community. The City of Durham is committed to

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expanding access to tennis and ensuring opportunities for

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individuals of all ages and abilities to participate in the

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sport. In order to promote health, wellness and community

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connection. And we got your emails. We want to work on it

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now. Therefore, I Leonardo Williams mayor of the City of

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Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim April 26th,

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2026. May 2026 National Tennis Month in Durham and encourage

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all residents to ensure to enjoy the sport and support its

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local national organizations. So witness my Hand and the

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Corporate seal of the City of Durham, North Carolina. This

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20th day of May 2026. Thank you so much. Thank you.

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Hey y'all. My name is Adrian Charleston and this is my eight

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year old son. His name is lightning and I am here with my

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son, my tennis community doctor. Durham, Orange County

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Tennis Community Association, you know, community and

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association. Of course, the illustrious North Carolina

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Central Tennis and just some other great tennis advocates in

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the city. I just really like to say, on behalf of our entire

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tennis community, thank you all for this acknowledgement and

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acknowledging the powerful sport of tennis in the

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community and just how it's a vehicle for community success

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in the community connection and health. Tennis is, of course,

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like you said, one of the few sports that really does that a

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person can play for a lifetime. And it brings a lot of people

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together of all skill levels, all ages, all backgrounds. We

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want to continue to grow that in the city of Durham. Whether

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you're picking up a racquet for the first time or returning

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from years of being off, we want to make sure that y'all

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have a safe place to continue to grow. And National Tennis

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Month is about more than just playing the sport of tennis.

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It's really about building community, which I've been able

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to grow since living in Durham and create spaces where people

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feel welcome. Kids can grow in confidence, and families and

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friends can come and enjoy time together in a healthy way.

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Right here in our community. We're seeing that impact every

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day. We're seeing it through local parks, schools, other

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community organizations like the organizations I named

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Doctor Eno, North Carolina Central Tennis Program, and

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Duke tennis programs. And we're all working to make tennis more

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accessible. And excuse me and inclusive in the city of

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Durham. And so I really do appreciate this proclamation

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today. And I would just like to invite you all to get out and

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play tennis, get on the tennis court. Even if you've never

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picked up a racquet before, come out, enjoy the nice

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weather we're having, and just remember that it's a place

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where you can continue to build community. And this is not just

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a game for us. It's not just a sport for us. It's actually a

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place where we have made family friends, and it's a passion for

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many of us in the community. So thanks again for this honor and

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we look forward to continuing to grow the game in the city of

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Durham. And my son wants to say one thing. I lift him up.

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Oh, oh, go ahead. , please come to the North

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Carolina Central Tennis mIAC championship and carry tennis

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Park. And that's this.

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Week. Yes. Like so you guys. Yeah. Come

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on. Yeah, yeah. Hey hold that. One more person.

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Oh. Oh!

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Yay! Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Somebody.

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Oh, yes. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

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All right. Thank you all so much for your

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patience with that. All right.

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At this time, I'll start to my left. And Council Member Kopac.

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Do you have any announcements? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

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First of all, obviously Tax Day just passed and seemed like a

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good time to remind folks about the city's longtime homeowner

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grant program, which works alongside the county's low

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income homeowner relief program for the first time this year.

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We've used up all the funds for the program after extending

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eligibility to anybody who qualifies and also has been a

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homeowner for at least five years. You have until the fall

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to apply, but it's worth researching eligibility. Now,

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this is an important anti displacement tool that the city

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and county have put forward. And we know that one of the

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best ways to promote affordability is to keep people

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in their homes. Also happy Earth Day and Earth Month. One

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of my favorite authors Paul Hawken, wrote, if you look at

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the science about what's happening to the earth and

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aren't pessimistic, you don't understand data. But if you

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meet the people who are working to restore this earth and you

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aren't optimistic, you haven't got a pulse. I was sorry to

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miss the Earth Day celebration yesterday in Durham, but I was

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in Washington, D.C. leading a panel with Environmental

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Defense Fund on navigating these tumultuous times from the

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federal government on down. And the mood was somber, but there

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was clear energy for both resistance and for

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collaboration around pragmatic solutions. And we have to do

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both. I'm excited about what I'm seeing in Durham from our

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renewable energy plan to protecting the 30% of the

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county outside the urban growth boundary. Other plans to

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protect and expand protected areas across the city, and the

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advocacy I see by groups on a number of issues in our great

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city. I'm excited about Earth Day, but I'm looking forward to

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one day celebrating Regeneration Day. The day when

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we can say we have reversed the impacts of climate change and

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met our local, national and global goals for climate and

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nature. Because at the end of the day, we are not separate

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from nature. We are a part of it.

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Council Member Baker good evening everyone. I'll

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associate myself with the wonderful comments of my my

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colleague Council Member Kopac. May 1st is coming.

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International Workers Day it actually began in the United

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States. Although it's not federally recognized. We

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celebrate Labor Day in September, but there's a

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growing movement to to support. May day. And we will actually

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be having May day celebrations in Durham. People can show up

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at 5 p.m. at CCP Plaza a few blocks away. Friday, May 1st, 5

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p.m., CCP Plaza. For those of you who are interested and

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actually just saw that Durham Public Schools looks like is

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not going to have school that day. In in celebration of May

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day. So I want to encourage folks to to come out to that.

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And other than that, I look forward to a productive meeting.

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Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and

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welcome to those who are joining us in council chambers.

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We're also virtually as well. I'm excited to have you here

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tonight, and I look forward to what I know. It'll be a great

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meeting. I'll be brief with my announcements. Mostly, I want

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to extend gratitude to the various members, our community,

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who for inviting me to fellowship and join them over

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the past two weeks. So first, I want to extend gratitude to

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members of the Town Community Association. I had an

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opportunity to attend their monthly meeting where I learned

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a lot about the issues impacting our neighbors in that

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part of the area, but also really forward thinking about

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how we can collectively address some of the issues around

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affordable housing, but also some predatory towing

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practices. I look forward to unpacking that more. Next, I

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want to send my gratitude to students from Doctor Stanton

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Berries. An instance to use municipal politics class and

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also extend gratitude to my colleagues who answer their

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emails and engage with those. So thank you to Council Member

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Kopac and Council Member Rist, who I believe are also engaged.

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Those students as well, had a chance to be on a panel

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discussion with some other esteemed panelists, such as

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Doctor Henry McCoy, Commissioner Steven Valentine,

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doctor drivers in CCU and we really had a great time

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engaging students about just what they the role of local

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government. And I was really excited about participating

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because it shows that our students are actually watching

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and they have critical thinking and they understand that some

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there's some issues in government in Durham. They're

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not working for them, particularly around the topic

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of affordable housing, but also community safety. So I'm glad

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to know that our young folks are paying attention to the

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policies and the outcomes, and want to make sure that

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everything lines up. Also wanted to shout out to Grace,

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Inc. Tiffany, who's led by Tiffany Swoopes, for inviting

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me to participate in a panel discussion also led by,

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organized and led by youth leaders on the topic of gun

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violence. So I had a chance to share the stage with

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Representative Zach Hawkins and other esteemed panelists to

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share more insight about the toll that gun violence has on

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mental health. As someone who's experienced that in my

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childhood as well, so definitely wanting to hear from

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our kids and the theme that we heard and I'll never stop

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00:31:12,399 --> 00:31:14,534
beating this drum, is that we are normalizing gun violence in

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our community. And just because some folks don't see it or hear

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the gunshots every night, doesn't mean that we all should

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not care about the lasting trauma that we are enduring.

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Our children in this community. And then finally had the

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opportunity to attend opening night of window taps. Third day

444
00:31:28,615 --> 00:31:31,818
was a very powerful play, attended on Friday night, and I

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00:31:31,818 --> 00:31:34,688
know it was hope. If you got a chance to participate. It was

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really, really motivating and thought provoking. So thank you

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all for joining us tonight and look forward again to a great

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meeting. Thank you.

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00:31:43,964 --> 00:31:47,500
Councilmember Wrist. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good

450
00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:50,303
evening colleagues. City manager staff, folks in

451
00:31:50,303 --> 00:31:55,175
attendance. Good to see you again. A couple things. Happy,

452
00:31:55,175 --> 00:31:57,444
happy poetry month. Thanks to the poetry box for being here

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for that proclamation. Also, happy early tennis month. Since

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it is May, but also I want to say Happy Earth Day. And thanks

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to the staff of the Durham Parks and Rec department who

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came out on Sunday and organize a great Earth Day festival at

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Central Park. Really amazing event. Happy to participate in

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that with Council Member Baker and and Mayor Pro Tem Caballero

459
00:32:16,529 --> 00:32:19,660
also had a great visit last week to the Durham Emergency

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Communications Center. That's where the 911 call center is

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00:32:21,535 --> 00:32:25,710
for the City of Durham. For Emergency Communicators Week, I

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00:32:25,710 --> 00:32:27,807
want to thank director Randy Beeman and his assistant,

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00:32:27,807 --> 00:32:30,210
Tangelo Walker, for leading us there. I also want to thank

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00:32:30,210 --> 00:32:33,130
Sarah Allen, who's one of the call takers. I was able to sit

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in on a call with Sarah and was just amazed by the amount of

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knowledge she brings to that, the quickness she brings to

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00:32:38,551 --> 00:32:41,154
these calls that come in at a rapid fire pace on all kinds of

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00:32:41,154 --> 00:32:45,910
things you can imagine. Also was amazed that you know you

469
00:32:45,910 --> 00:32:46,493
know how it is when you're talking to someone on a cell

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00:32:46,493 --> 00:32:48,762
phone. It can be hard to hear sometimes, but you heard every

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00:32:48,762 --> 00:32:51,970
word these people were saying is often hard to hear. So Sarah

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00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:54,434
was an amazing, amazing, amazing talent of the call

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center. And I appreciate all the folks who work there and

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spend a lot of time and intense hours in the call center. Also

475
00:33:00,774 --> 00:33:05,245
last week I attended the Step Up Durham Impact Lunch 2026. I

476
00:33:05,245 --> 00:33:07,113
want to thank the director interim director of their

477
00:33:07,113 --> 00:33:09,582
Cashmere Bentley, who was also a participant, and step up

478
00:33:09,582 --> 00:33:12,252
earlier. If you don't know, step up. They spent about a

479
00:33:12,252 --> 00:33:15,789
decade in Durham empowering job seekers in the Durham community

480
00:33:15,789 --> 00:33:18,191
who faced significant barriers to finding employment. They're

481
00:33:18,191 --> 00:33:20,861
doing an amazing job at Step Up and hope you appreciate their

482
00:33:20,861 --> 00:33:22,796
work, and I want to congratulate them on their

483
00:33:22,796 --> 00:33:25,866
impact here in Durham. Finally, the last thing is last Thursday

484
00:33:25,866 --> 00:33:29,268
also participated in the 30th anniversary celebration or gala

485
00:33:29,268 --> 00:33:32,272
for the Durham Partnership for children, which really

486
00:33:32,272 --> 00:33:34,407
spearheads our work on early childhood education here in

487
00:33:34,407 --> 00:33:37,344
Durham, thanks to their director, Kate Irish, who leads

488
00:33:37,344 --> 00:33:39,545
that great organization. And also we had a great speaker

489
00:33:39,545 --> 00:33:42,150
there, Lieutenant Governor Rachel Hunt, whose dad, as you

490
00:33:42,150 --> 00:33:44,751
probably know, Jim Hunt is one that founded the whole Smart

491
00:33:44,751 --> 00:33:47,621
Start movement around Durham. So it was a great event there.

492
00:33:47,621 --> 00:33:49,423
The city is not directly involved in a lot of early

493
00:33:49,423 --> 00:33:51,625
childhood stuff. It's more the county, but so much of what we

494
00:33:51,625 --> 00:33:54,940
do in terms of parks and housing and other supports are

495
00:33:54,940 --> 00:33:56,696
supporting our kids in the earliest years as they prepare

496
00:33:56,696 --> 00:34:02,502
for for lives of meaning and and impact. So thanks to the

497
00:34:02,502 --> 00:34:04,304
Durham partnership, it's great to have strong partners like

498
00:34:04,304 --> 00:34:07,107
them in the world of early childhood. The last thing, Mr.

499
00:34:07,107 --> 00:34:08,642
Mayor, I do want to ask. I don't know if I should do it

500
00:34:08,642 --> 00:34:11,378
now or later, but I do need to ask for an excused absence from

501
00:34:11,378 --> 00:34:15,649
our May 7th work session. I'll be in a conference that day,

502
00:34:15,649 --> 00:34:18,117
and we'll do that now. Or do we do that later?

503
00:34:18,117 --> 00:34:20,787
Yeah, I'll. Entertain a motion to grant you

504
00:34:20,787 --> 00:34:24,124
an excuse. Absence for May 7th work session.

505
00:34:24,124 --> 00:34:26,125
Spent more than probably. A. second. Madam clerk, please

506
00:34:26,125 --> 00:34:28,125
open. The vote.

507
00:34:37,404 --> 00:34:40,540
Thank you so much. Please close the vote.

508
00:34:40,540 --> 00:34:43,476
Motion passes seven zero. Thank you so much.

509
00:34:43,476 --> 00:34:47,130
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Council Member Cook.

510
00:34:47,130 --> 00:34:49,416
Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and thank you to my

511
00:34:49,416 --> 00:34:52,152
colleagues for those excellent announcements. I'm sitting

512
00:34:52,152 --> 00:34:58,910
pretty heavy tonight and I'm holding space for this week of

513
00:34:58,910 --> 00:35:01,695
men harming their intimate partners and children. We've

514
00:35:01,695 --> 00:35:04,697
been seeing everything from well-known political figures in

515
00:35:04,697 --> 00:35:08,635
Virginia to a man and his entire family of, I think,

516
00:35:08,635 --> 00:35:13,435
seven children in Shreveport, Louisiana. And then the

517
00:35:13,573 --> 00:35:17,773
tentatively identity hidden folks, 60 to 80 million per

518
00:35:20,780 --> 00:35:25,985
month visitors on online chat rooms to survivors. This is a

519
00:35:25,985 --> 00:35:28,721
this is a difficult week to those is still experiencing

520
00:35:28,721 --> 00:35:31,124
violence. And those who have experienced violence. We see

521
00:35:31,124 --> 00:35:35,862
you I believe you just want to hold some space for that today.

522
00:35:35,862 --> 00:35:40,200
It's it's been really hard news. Not that anything is

523
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:44,337
surprising in that, but also always difficult to hear. I did

524
00:35:44,337 --> 00:35:46,539
have some really awesome opportunities this past week as

525
00:35:46,539 --> 00:35:49,275
well. One of the things that I got to do was with Council

526
00:35:49,275 --> 00:35:53,120
Member Rist and Mayor Pro Tem Caballero. Visit the 911 call

527
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,817
center. Also want to send my thanks to Randy and Angela, and

528
00:35:56,817 --> 00:36:01,221
then my person that I got to sit with was Adriana and she

529
00:36:01,221 --> 00:36:04,230
was also incredible. Everyone there is amazing. She also made

530
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:06,159
guacamole for the whole office and I get to have some. And it

531
00:36:06,159 --> 00:36:09,896
was really spicy and delicious. I also want to recognize that

532
00:36:09,896 --> 00:36:12,832
that day they were having a memorial for someone that they

533
00:36:12,832 --> 00:36:18,370
lost, Nakia Ferrer. And so I just want to recognize her

534
00:36:18,370 --> 00:36:21,775
memory as a city employee that was really, really special and

535
00:36:21,775 --> 00:36:25,178
beloved by so many. That's a really hard job to answer.

536
00:36:25,178 --> 00:36:30,450
Crises after crises. So yeah, but really meaningful work. And

537
00:36:30,450 --> 00:36:33,786
I'm so grateful for the folks to do that. I also got to go

538
00:36:33,786 --> 00:36:36,456
visit the Hillandale Golf course and talk to folks about

539
00:36:36,456 --> 00:36:43,656
Swing Pals. This is such a cool. It's a program for middle

540
00:36:43,930 --> 00:36:47,400
school students, public school students across the city. It's

541
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,603
expanding. It's right now in six, I think out of nine cities

542
00:36:50,603 --> 00:36:53,473
are public schools, and they are hoping to expand to all

543
00:36:53,473 --> 00:36:57,209
nine of the public middle schools. And one of the one of

544
00:36:57,209 --> 00:36:59,612
the many incredible programs that are going on at Hillandale

545
00:36:59,612 --> 00:37:01,897
Golf Course. If you are a golfer, you've probably been

546
00:37:01,897 --> 00:37:05,502
over there. If you are not like me, you might not know that

547
00:37:05,502 --> 00:37:08,972
that is a place where you can go golf for $40, and if you

548
00:37:08,972 --> 00:37:11,907
can't pay that $40, they will work with you. So it's

549
00:37:11,907 --> 00:37:14,377
someplace that's open for everybody and with a real

550
00:37:14,377 --> 00:37:17,180
commitment to holding up community, which I really

551
00:37:17,180 --> 00:37:20,583
appreciated. So shout out to Carl and Doug for taking me on

552
00:37:20,583 --> 00:37:24,120
that tour. Also got to go to the Equity Before Birth dance

553
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,791
party, which was super fun and people were like really

554
00:37:28,791 --> 00:37:31,461
breaking it down. So I was really happy to be there and to

555
00:37:31,461 --> 00:37:34,397
celebrate that awesome organization as well. And then

556
00:37:34,397 --> 00:37:38,335
finally got to go to the screening of Celebrating the

557
00:37:38,335 --> 00:37:41,337
Story of Grant Street with several of my colleagues, as

558
00:37:41,337 --> 00:37:46,476
well to the not old as they like to say to the young ladies

559
00:37:46,476 --> 00:37:49,545
of Grant Street who have ensured that their community

560
00:37:49,545 --> 00:37:53,160
survived urban renewal and will be something that can be passed

561
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,953
down to future generations. Brenda Bradshaw, Vivian Gunn,

562
00:37:56,953 --> 00:38:01,291
Pam Blake, Diane Merritt, Joanne Brown, these women, if

563
00:38:01,291 --> 00:38:03,559
you haven't met them, are incredible. They're just

564
00:38:03,559 --> 00:38:08,497
amazing pillars of the hashtag community and of all of Durham.

565
00:38:08,497 --> 00:38:10,967
I also want to shout out to Council Member Burris, who had

566
00:38:10,967 --> 00:38:15,380
a a recognition was recognized in the film for the work that

567
00:38:15,380 --> 00:38:18,975
she's done in that community. And to Justin Reed, who was the

568
00:38:18,975 --> 00:38:22,645
filmmaker, and Jarvis McInnis, who hosted and forced us to

569
00:38:22,645 --> 00:38:27,316
talk to our neighbors and my audience neighbor was Mildred,

570
00:38:27,316 --> 00:38:31,987
who had lived here. She was for her entire life in Durham and

571
00:38:31,987 --> 00:38:34,523
specifically in Haiti, and shared her story with me. And

572
00:38:34,523 --> 00:38:37,393
that was really special. So thanks to all of those folks

573
00:38:37,393 --> 00:38:40,597
who made that happen this week. And those are my announcements.

574
00:38:40,597 --> 00:38:43,933
Thank you. Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you. Good evening

575
00:38:43,933 --> 00:38:48,738
everyone. Thanks. First up, it has been it's spring in Durham,

576
00:38:48,738 --> 00:38:51,474
which means that it's event season for us. So I have had

577
00:38:51,474 --> 00:38:54,611
the pleasure of seeing, I think every single one of us at one

578
00:38:54,611 --> 00:38:56,880
event or another that many of you all have named. So I'm not

579
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,216
going to go through the list. I do just want to shout out

580
00:39:00,216 --> 00:39:03,153
Durham Parks and Rec for an excellent Earth Day Festival

581
00:39:03,153 --> 00:39:08,158
celebration yesterday, and look forward to a meeting and I will

582
00:39:08,158 --> 00:39:14,758
be brief. Thank you. Not with this sign up sheet. A

583
00:39:16,232 --> 00:39:18,434
lot of voices are going to be heard tonight. Looking forward

584
00:39:18,434 --> 00:39:23,239
to the engagement. Colleagues. Thank you all for traversing

585
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:28,639
the city. There were lots of things happening. I

586
00:39:28,778 --> 00:39:31,647
unfortunately did not get a chance to get to the full frame

587
00:39:31,647 --> 00:39:35,652
festival, but I heard it was amazing and and just really,

588
00:39:35,652 --> 00:39:38,254
really, really good. Hope that I can go back and capture some

589
00:39:38,254 --> 00:39:41,858
of those with the Earth Day festivities and everything else

590
00:39:41,858 --> 00:39:46,610
that was going on. Reminds me of why there were seven of us.

591
00:39:46,610 --> 00:39:50,734
I was away at Harvard at a fellowship that Durham has won,

592
00:39:50,734 --> 00:39:55,710
and we will be bringing some of those resources to Durham. We

593
00:39:55,710 --> 00:39:59,342
will utilize the resources of the Graduate School of Design

594
00:39:59,342 --> 00:40:03,480
from Harvard, where they will be putting fellows into the

595
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,748
mayor's office to work with our community engagement

596
00:40:05,748 --> 00:40:09,285
department, as well as our planning department. And we

597
00:40:09,285 --> 00:40:12,880
will be focusing on some very specialized projects throughout

598
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,224
the city. So I'm really excited about those resources that we

599
00:40:15,224 --> 00:40:19,629
don't have to pay for. And they come with the resources and

600
00:40:19,629 --> 00:40:23,833
weight of Harvard University. I really want to thank my my

601
00:40:23,833 --> 00:40:27,504
special assistant, Emmanuel, a, and our Director of Community

602
00:40:27,504 --> 00:40:32,410
Engagement, Director, Starla Tanner, for joining me and of

603
00:40:32,410 --> 00:40:36,245
in Cambridge over the last week. Thanks to the Black

604
00:40:36,245 --> 00:40:39,916
Policy Summit by the Black Student Union at Harvard, also

605
00:40:39,916 --> 00:40:42,518
for inviting me there to represent the city of Durham

606
00:40:42,518 --> 00:40:46,989
and shout out to the African American Mayors Association and

607
00:40:46,989 --> 00:40:49,125
the American Beverage Association. I'll be talking

608
00:40:49,125 --> 00:40:52,996
about this more tomorrow. But the City of Durham won the

609
00:40:52,996 --> 00:40:57,400
largest award in the country for food insecurity. So

610
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:02,671
tomorrow I'll be talking about the not only $25,000 award that

611
00:41:02,671 --> 00:41:07,944
Mayor Shaw helped us get, but also the $175,000 award that

612
00:41:07,944 --> 00:41:12,810
I'm I'm just really proud of my office staff who applied and

613
00:41:12,810 --> 00:41:14,283
got this grant for Durham. And I will be talking about that

614
00:41:14,283 --> 00:41:18,821
more in detail tomorrow. Speaking of tomorrow, tomorrow

615
00:41:18,821 --> 00:41:22,492
is while later in the year, tomorrow will be the state of

616
00:41:22,492 --> 00:41:25,962
the city. In past time, the state of the city has been just

617
00:41:25,962 --> 00:41:30,700
a part of a normal agenda item. And we would just have it in

618
00:41:30,700 --> 00:41:33,837
here. When I got elected, I thought it should be a city

619
00:41:33,837 --> 00:41:36,839
celebration to celebrate all the things that we have going

620
00:41:36,839 --> 00:41:41,177
on, and so we will do that tomorrow at Deepak. Doors will

621
00:41:41,177 --> 00:41:46,516
open at 5 p.m. and we will not only celebrate all of the

622
00:41:46,516 --> 00:41:49,519
grants and awards that we've gotten, the City Future Fund

623
00:41:49,519 --> 00:41:52,255
will be giving out an additional $30,000 tomorrow to

624
00:41:52,255 --> 00:41:54,790
youth serving organizations right here in Durham. Really

625
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:57,794
excited about that. And I'll be bringing a close friend of mine

626
00:41:57,794 --> 00:42:02,640
to the town to be a guest speaker in a fireside chat.

627
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,000
That's Mayor Brandon Scott from Baltimore, Maryland, so I hope

628
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,203
you can make it tomorrow. Doors open at five and we'll be at

629
00:42:08,203 --> 00:42:13,476
Deepak tomorrow at and program starts at six and we will have

630
00:42:13,476 --> 00:42:18,130
the city on display. I thank you, Councilmember Cook, for

631
00:42:18,130 --> 00:42:20,549
mentioning this, something I've been paying close attention to

632
00:42:20,549 --> 00:42:24,487
as well. And I am looking at this though, as there are some

633
00:42:24,487 --> 00:42:28,424
serious mental health issues going on in our community. And,

634
00:42:28,424 --> 00:42:31,761
you know, people hurt people no matter whether they're black or

635
00:42:31,761 --> 00:42:35,970
white or whatever. We've seen some tragedies happen, and I

636
00:42:35,970 --> 00:42:39,435
really hope that we can really, really check on our neighbors.

637
00:42:39,435 --> 00:42:43,639
People are not okay. And and that's I'm really worried about

638
00:42:43,639 --> 00:42:48,310
that. So hopefully folks are taking care of one another the

639
00:42:48,310 --> 00:42:54,910
best we can. And we'll continue to strive together. All right.

640
00:42:58,988 --> 00:43:06,788
Okay. Thank you. We are going to get on with the agenda here.

641
00:43:11,816 --> 00:43:14,753
And before we get on to that, I'm going to before I get to

642
00:43:14,753 --> 00:43:16,621
the consent agenda, I'll go ahead and pass it to Mr.

643
00:43:16,621 --> 00:43:18,824
Manager for your priority items.

644
00:43:18,824 --> 00:43:21,293
Thank you. Mayor. Mayor Pro tem, members of council. The

645
00:43:21,293 --> 00:43:23,962
city manager's office does have one priority item this evening.

646
00:43:23,962 --> 00:43:27,165
That is for agenda item number 19. The American Rescue Plan

647
00:43:27,165 --> 00:43:30,301
Act update. There was additional information

648
00:43:30,301 --> 00:43:32,571
requested at the April 9th work session. And that's been

649
00:43:32,571 --> 00:43:36,174
attached under agenda item number 19, which is in the no

650
00:43:36,174 --> 00:43:39,511
action agenda items for informational purposes only

651
00:43:39,511 --> 00:43:41,913
section of the agenda this evening. Those are our priority

652
00:43:41,913 --> 00:43:44,449
items. Thank you so much, Madam

653
00:43:44,449 --> 00:43:46,451
Attorney. Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Madam

654
00:43:46,451 --> 00:43:49,540
Mayor Pro Tem, members of the council, it's good to see you.

655
00:43:49,540 --> 00:43:53,725
The City Attorney's office has no priority items tonight.

656
00:43:53,725 --> 00:43:56,994
Thank you, Madam Clerk. Good evening, Mr. Mayor and

657
00:43:56,994 --> 00:43:59,464
city council members. The city clerk's office has no items

658
00:43:59,464 --> 00:44:04,690
this evening. Thank you. At this time, I'll

659
00:44:04,690 --> 00:44:09,874
go ahead and read the media. And I read the consent agenda.

660
00:44:09,874 --> 00:44:15,874
Item number two. Approval of City Council minutes. This item

661
00:44:17,215 --> 00:44:20,815
has been pulled. Item number three.

662
00:44:26,224 --> 00:44:31,240
Is my. You see, my son. Okay. Thank

663
00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:41,300
you. Okay. Oh, it's 1303. Hey, item number three. Item number

664
00:44:42,974 --> 00:44:45,644
two is approval of the City Council minutes, which has been

665
00:44:45,644 --> 00:44:48,460
pulled. Item number three, Durham Workers Rights

666
00:44:48,460 --> 00:44:52,846
Commission. Appointment number four. Item number four. Grant

667
00:44:54,252 --> 00:44:58,990
budget ordinance accepting a share. Our strength. No kid

668
00:44:58,990 --> 00:45:03,194
hungry grant, which is what I just referenced. Really excited

669
00:45:03,194 --> 00:45:06,865
to receive that. Item number five, approval of Wake County

670
00:45:06,865 --> 00:45:11,269
Emergency Operations Plan. Madam clerk, I will sign this

671
00:45:11,269 --> 00:45:17,142
after we pass on, and I'll get it back to you. Item number six

672
00:45:17,142 --> 00:45:19,343
interlocal agreement between the City of Durham and the

673
00:45:19,343 --> 00:45:21,879
County of Durham to fund community solutions consulting.

674
00:45:21,879 --> 00:45:26,170
Work on the homeless strategy, homeless Strategic framework.

675
00:45:26,170 --> 00:45:32,170
This item has been pulled. Item number seven, Street Dash 332.

676
00:45:32,423 --> 00:45:36,623
See pavement condition study presentation. Item number

677
00:45:36,628 --> 00:45:39,497
eight. Proposed ten year lease with Liberty Arts Incorporated

678
00:45:39,497 --> 00:45:44,369
for Arts Pavilion at 505 Rigsby Avenue. Item number nine Durham

679
00:45:44,369 --> 00:45:50,369
Rail Trail construction manager at risk CMR with Balfour Beatty

680
00:45:50,575 --> 00:45:53,445
Construction, holds Brothers Construction and a joint

681
00:45:53,445 --> 00:45:57,449
venture item number ten Interlocal agreement for Fire

682
00:45:57,449 --> 00:46:01,319
and Emergency Medical Services station 19, item number 11

683
00:46:01,319 --> 00:46:05,190
utility extension agreement with Jason Jones to serve 102

684
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:09,990
North Maple Street. Item number 12. Utility extension agreement

685
00:46:10,528 --> 00:46:16,801
with The Light Is Red, LLC. The light is red. The light is Red

686
00:46:16,801 --> 00:46:23,401
okay, LLC to serve 2502 is your Avenue build. Since HQ. Item

687
00:46:23,608 --> 00:46:26,411
number 13, third amendment to the contract with Duke

688
00:46:26,411 --> 00:46:30,949
University for city Fiber at item has been pulled. Item

689
00:46:30,949 --> 00:46:34,886
number 14. Fiscal year 2023. State and Local cybersecurity

690
00:46:34,886 --> 00:46:39,291
Grant program grant project ordinance and authorization to

691
00:46:39,291 --> 00:46:44,910
execute memorandum of under Memorandum of Agreement. That

692
00:46:44,950 --> 00:46:48,895
item has been pulled. Item number 15. Federal Transit

693
00:46:49,330 --> 00:46:51,569
Administration Bus and Bus Facility Grant project

694
00:46:51,569 --> 00:46:55,769
ordinance, item number 16 purchase contract with Gillig,

695
00:46:57,842 --> 00:47:03,515
LLC for ten diesel buses for Go Durham. Number 17 service

696
00:47:03,515 --> 00:47:07,585
contract with Palmetto Underground Solutions, LLC for

697
00:47:07,585 --> 00:47:12,190
the 2026 Late Lead Service Line inventory. Field verifications

698
00:47:12,190 --> 00:47:16,990
project, item number 18 Award construction contract to PC

699
00:47:18,129 --> 00:47:21,332
Construction Company for the Williams Water Treatment Plant.

700
00:47:21,332 --> 00:47:24,932
Basin Improvements Project. Item number 25. Legislative

701
00:47:25,803 --> 00:47:31,203
priorities for the 2026 Short Session of the North Carolina

702
00:47:31,810 --> 00:47:35,410
General Assembly. Item number 21, its consolidated

703
00:47:38,883 --> 00:47:41,883
annexation. Beverage number 22 Consolidated annexation.

704
00:47:42,353 --> 00:47:45,756
Patterson Hall I don't remember 23 consolidated annexation,

705
00:47:45,756 --> 00:47:49,356
Morgan Farm, item number 24. Consolidated annexation 9415

706
00:47:50,940 --> 00:47:54,232
and 751 highway. Colleagues, I will probably change that order

707
00:47:54,232 --> 00:48:00,832
just a little bit. And we have the information section here.

708
00:48:07,312 --> 00:48:11,182
All right. Thank you all so much. That is our agenda. Thank

709
00:48:11,182 --> 00:48:15,319
you. Mine is somewhere around here. Oh it's right here. Yeah.

710
00:48:15,319 --> 00:48:19,523
There's a lot of papers. All right. I will entertain a

711
00:48:19,523 --> 00:48:23,595
motion to approve the consent agenda with the exceptions of

712
00:48:23,595 --> 00:48:28,395
items two, six, 13, 14, 21, 22. I'm sorry. Six, two, six, 13

713
00:48:31,136 --> 00:48:33,338
and 14. So moved by.

714
00:48:33,338 --> 00:48:35,140
Move the properly seconded. Madam clerk, please open the

715
00:48:35,140 --> 00:48:40,540
vote. Please close the vote. Motion passes seven zero.

716
00:48:46,618 --> 00:48:53,818
Thank you so much. We'll get right into it. Item number two.

717
00:48:57,161 --> 00:49:03,161
I have an online speaker. Two speakers, Abby Barcelo and

718
00:49:04,368 --> 00:49:10,368
Randy Stanley. Randy Sandy is a resource person. Abby Barcelo,

719
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:17,109
can you hear me? Mr. mayor, I don't see Miss

720
00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:25,938
Barcelo on the queue. Okay.

721
00:49:25,938 --> 00:49:29,474
There's a phone number. There could be.

722
00:49:29,474 --> 00:49:36,740
Okay. All right. Thank you. I will. I'll come back. All

723
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:44,289
right. Next up is. Well, I guess I should go ahead and

724
00:49:44,289 --> 00:49:52,890
call on it. Yeah, I'll go ahead and call on the vote. Okay,

725
00:49:53,965 --> 00:49:59,365
colleagues. Number two. I'll entertain a motion to. I'll

726
00:50:00,390 --> 00:50:03,308
entertain a motion to approve for the approval of City

727
00:50:03,308 --> 00:50:08,470
Council. Minutes. So moved second. It's been moved to

728
00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:12,717
properly. Seconded. Madam clerk, please open the vote.

729
00:50:12,717 --> 00:50:17,517
Please close the vote. Motion passes seven zero.

730
00:50:17,856 --> 00:50:23,995
All right. Thank you. Next, I have item number six. That is a

731
00:50:23,995 --> 00:50:27,199
interlocal agreement between the city and County of Durham

732
00:50:27,199 --> 00:50:29,601
to find community solutions. Consulting, work on the

733
00:50:29,601 --> 00:50:34,273
homeless strategic framework. This item was pulled by Reina

734
00:50:34,273 --> 00:50:41,473
Zenko. Can you hear me? You see her online? Okay. Reina, can

735
00:50:45,684 --> 00:50:48,684
you hear me? Yes, yes.

736
00:50:51,156 --> 00:50:52,825
All right. There you go. Welcome. You have three

737
00:50:52,825 --> 00:50:53,958
minutes. Great.

738
00:50:53,958 --> 00:50:57,896
Thank you. Good evening. My name is Reina Cinco. I'm a

739
00:50:57,896 --> 00:51:00,766
Durham resident and a sociologist specializing in

740
00:51:00,766 --> 00:51:05,237
homelessness in public policy. I'm commenting tonight because

741
00:51:05,237 --> 00:51:08,106
I have concerns regarding the direction of policies relating

742
00:51:08,106 --> 00:51:11,643
to homelessness here in Durham. For one, this year there has

743
00:51:11,643 --> 00:51:14,446
been a growing number of clearances impacting our

744
00:51:14,446 --> 00:51:18,517
unhoused neighbors, most recently in Oakwood Park. In my

745
00:51:18,517 --> 00:51:22,121
work, I detail how public policies from welfare to parks

746
00:51:22,121 --> 00:51:24,590
management, tend to systematically render

747
00:51:24,590 --> 00:51:28,394
homelessness and unprotected status. That is, many public

748
00:51:28,394 --> 00:51:31,863
sector regulations and practices often strip unhoused

749
00:51:31,863 --> 00:51:35,200
people of their democratic and human rights, even if they do

750
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,470
not explicitly criminalize them. Clearances are one

751
00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:42,141
obvious example of this. My work also stresses that failing

752
00:51:42,141 --> 00:51:44,943
to protect unhoused persons, wherever they may be, is

753
00:51:44,943 --> 00:51:48,347
unacceptable. By refusing to protect the rights and dignity

754
00:51:48,347 --> 00:51:51,160
of unhoused persons unconditionally, the public

755
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,685
sector compounds the insecurities they face in

756
00:51:53,685 --> 00:51:57,289
normalizes violence against them. To be clear, I'm saying

757
00:51:57,289 --> 00:52:00,291
that clearances normalize violence against unhoused

758
00:52:00,291 --> 00:52:04,362
persons. Last week, the indie publicist story on abuses at

759
00:52:04,362 --> 00:52:07,633
the Durham Rescue Mission. I name this to stress that while

760
00:52:07,633 --> 00:52:10,769
sleeping rough carries many risks, it is still preferable

761
00:52:10,769 --> 00:52:13,705
for many people who find no refuge in our present system

762
00:52:13,705 --> 00:52:17,108
through no fault of their own. We should be protecting people

763
00:52:17,108 --> 00:52:20,512
wherever they may be, even if it's on the street at all

764
00:52:20,512 --> 00:52:24,316
costs. I do also have concerns about built for Zero, which

765
00:52:24,316 --> 00:52:27,986
aims to achieve functional zero in homelessness. Built for zero

766
00:52:27,986 --> 00:52:30,789
has many problems, but I'll highlight just one here.

767
00:52:30,789 --> 00:52:33,859
Functional zero is a pivot from prior decades of earnest

768
00:52:33,859 --> 00:52:37,462
efforts to achieve an absolute zero in homelessness. Instead,

769
00:52:37,462 --> 00:52:40,640
this new approach is limited to managing data, treating

770
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:42,934
homelessness itself as an inevitable stream of quote

771
00:52:42,934 --> 00:52:46,205
inflows and outflows, calculated using numbers that

772
00:52:46,205 --> 00:52:49,941
can be easily manipulated. For example, logic would imply that

773
00:52:49,941 --> 00:52:52,410
an outflow category would consist of people who have

774
00:52:52,410 --> 00:52:55,280
exited homelessness, but in fact it can typically include

775
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,817
people whose service providers have lost contact with. Built

776
00:52:58,817 --> 00:53:01,620
for zero is not a system for developing solutions to

777
00:53:01,620 --> 00:53:04,823
homelessness, but a system for technocrats managing the status

778
00:53:04,823 --> 00:53:08,226
quo and quantitatively redefining progress, often to

779
00:53:08,226 --> 00:53:11,830
the qualitative detriment of users. By embracing a

780
00:53:11,830 --> 00:53:14,966
functional but not actual zero. Durham is signaling that

781
00:53:14,966 --> 00:53:18,503
homelessness is an acceptable status quo, and if, as a matter

782
00:53:18,503 --> 00:53:22,400
of policy, Durham is therefore allowing for in there be a

783
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,710
built for zero calculations, hundreds or thousands of people

784
00:53:25,710 --> 00:53:29,470
to remain homeless, we should not be denying any unhoused

785
00:53:29,470 --> 00:53:32,250
neighbors maximal levels of protection or care. And that

786
00:53:32,250 --> 00:53:35,654
includes when they are in encampments and on the streets.

787
00:53:35,654 --> 00:53:38,323
It is imperative that Durham not conduct any more

788
00:53:38,323 --> 00:53:41,659
clearances. The city should do better and work harder to

789
00:53:41,659 --> 00:53:44,395
ensure all Durham sites have the social and economic

790
00:53:44,395 --> 00:53:47,665
security that they need. Lastly, I'd also like to

791
00:53:47,665 --> 00:53:50,669
encourage more Durham ites to extend their care to unhoused

792
00:53:50,669 --> 00:53:56,741
neighbors and not let the tide turn against them. Thank you.

793
00:53:56,741 --> 00:54:02,741
Thank you. All right. Colleagues at this time. Had a

794
00:54:10,222 --> 00:54:16,822
follow up. That was number six right? I'll entertain a motion.

795
00:54:23,435 --> 00:54:27,706
To resolve that, the city manager is authorized to

796
00:54:27,706 --> 00:54:30,241
execute interlocal agreement with Durham County to fund the

797
00:54:30,241 --> 00:54:33,245
community solutions consulting, work on the Homeless strategic

798
00:54:33,245 --> 00:54:35,245
Framework. So moved.

799
00:54:36,180 --> 00:54:37,915
Second. It's been moved and properly

800
00:54:37,915 --> 00:54:43,915
seconded. Please open the vote. Thank you. Please close the

801
00:54:46,190 --> 00:54:49,190
vote. Motion passes seven zero.

802
00:54:50,528 --> 00:54:54,728
Thank you. Next up, item number 13. Third

803
00:55:01,206 --> 00:55:04,676
amendment to the contract with Duke University. City fiber.

804
00:55:04,676 --> 00:55:08,276
Peterson. Welcome. You have three minutes.

805
00:55:15,220 --> 00:55:20,825
Thank you. Is Mr. Smith here? That's representing the city on

806
00:55:20,825 --> 00:55:26,970
this project. What? I would like to sort of find out. Close

807
00:55:26,970 --> 00:55:31,580
to $7 million. We're talking about this project for to bring

808
00:55:31,580 --> 00:55:37,252
fiber, to bring fiber to the community. I support fiber to

809
00:55:37,252 --> 00:55:41,722
every home, to every business, to every park. But here's my

810
00:55:41,722 --> 00:55:46,527
concern. And I like to sort of just round this off to 7

811
00:55:46,527 --> 00:55:51,666
million. What is the dollar amount that Duke has put in for

812
00:55:51,666 --> 00:55:57,660
this project? Because that's not here. In my understanding.

813
00:55:57,272 --> 00:56:04,813
This was a project for the city and Duke, and I don't know if

814
00:56:04,813 --> 00:56:08,816
Duke is in the house, but I'm hoping that they're here

815
00:56:08,816 --> 00:56:12,421
because I would like to know the dollar amount that they

816
00:56:12,421 --> 00:56:17,759
have put in so far with this project. Also, I heard the

817
00:56:17,759 --> 00:56:21,290
young lady speak about homeless. We've got to make

818
00:56:21,290 --> 00:56:26,435
sure that our local residents will get this job to lay the

819
00:56:26,435 --> 00:56:30,638
fiber. Now, my understanding a little bit about fiber, you

820
00:56:30,638 --> 00:56:33,508
have to put it, lay it in the ground. So that's one group of

821
00:56:33,508 --> 00:56:38,914
persons that need to have that skill to lay the fiber. Then

822
00:56:38,914 --> 00:56:42,317
you have to have persons to have the skill to bring the

823
00:56:42,317 --> 00:56:47,550
fiber to the building. Then you have to have another group of

824
00:56:47,550 --> 00:56:51,259
persons that know how to take the fiber from the building

825
00:56:51,259 --> 00:56:55,397
outside to bring the fiber inside of the building for your

826
00:56:55,397 --> 00:56:59,468
various hookups. If you're going to put the fiber out in

827
00:56:59,468 --> 00:57:02,737
the park, you've got to have some folks that know how to do

828
00:57:02,737 --> 00:57:06,274
all that. So we're really speaking about 3 or 4 different

829
00:57:06,274 --> 00:57:10,478
layers of fiber optic. Mr. mayor, I don't know if you know

830
00:57:10,478 --> 00:57:14,150
this or not, but I have a little background. Years ago,

831
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:18,153
with fiber optic and matter of fact, I was so glad when Durham

832
00:57:18,153 --> 00:57:22,491
started to bring fiber into the community. But my two concerns

833
00:57:22,491 --> 00:57:26,270
are how much money? Because this is supposed to be a joint

834
00:57:26,270 --> 00:57:31,766
project with Duke and the city. How much money has already Duke

835
00:57:31,766 --> 00:57:36,972
thrown into this project? Also, once we put the fiber around

836
00:57:36,972 --> 00:57:41,576
into the community in the parks, we need to make sure

837
00:57:41,576 --> 00:57:45,460
that we're not going to have to pay for this. If the city is

838
00:57:45,460 --> 00:57:51,319
already putting out close to $7 million. Please don't send us a

839
00:57:51,319 --> 00:57:55,790
bill. If Duke is going to be involved with this, let's make

840
00:57:55,790 --> 00:58:00,262
sure that they put their dollars amount in this. We want

841
00:58:00,262 --> 00:58:04,332
to make sure that we're going to hire our local folks. When

842
00:58:04,332 --> 00:58:09,700
my husband and I, when we train, we had over 400 and some

843
00:58:09,700 --> 00:58:12,874
students in this community that were trained in copper cable

844
00:58:12,874 --> 00:58:17,780
and fiber optic, we need to try to reach back out to them, Mr.

845
00:58:17,780 --> 00:58:21,149
Mayor, and try to help them to get some employment. Thank you.

846
00:58:21,149 --> 00:58:25,860
Project. And as Mr. Smith here to answer some questions.

847
00:58:25,860 --> 00:58:32,886
I'm sure that staff could speak with you. I'm sure we can get

848
00:58:33,294 --> 00:58:36,231
some information for you if I'm sure we can get some

849
00:58:36,231 --> 00:58:40,368
information for you, but you gotta have to communicate with

850
00:58:40,368 --> 00:58:42,971
staff and they can they can answer your questions, whatever

851
00:58:42,971 --> 00:58:46,508
questions you may have, you may be better off sending an email

852
00:58:46,508 --> 00:58:48,109
so that that person can get in touch.

853
00:58:48,109 --> 00:58:50,511
So no one is here to tell us how much.

854
00:58:50,511 --> 00:58:52,647
I won't do the back and forth dialogue right now because

855
00:58:52,647 --> 00:58:54,715
we're in the middle of the meeting, but I can get staff

856
00:58:54,715 --> 00:58:58,319
hear you and they can. Okay. They just they'll speak with

857
00:58:58,319 --> 00:59:02,560
you once you finish your item number 14, because I have you

858
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,656
pull for that as well. Okay.

859
00:59:05,993 --> 00:59:11,393
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. One moment. Colleagues, I'll

860
00:59:13,802 --> 00:59:16,737
entertain a motion to authorize the city manager to execute the

861
00:59:16,737 --> 00:59:21,750
Third Amendment. Since item number 13, third amendment to

862
00:59:21,750 --> 00:59:23,611
the scope of services between Duke University and the City of

863
00:59:23,611 --> 00:59:28,411
Durham in the amount of $426,899 for revised total

864
00:59:29,350 --> 00:59:32,350
contract amount not to exceed 6,797,776.

865
00:59:34,422 --> 00:59:36,558
So moved. Second. So moved and properly seconded.

866
00:59:36,558 --> 00:59:42,558
Madam clerk, please open the vote. Please close the vote.

867
00:59:45,966 --> 00:59:49,370
Motion passes seven zero. Thank you. Item number 14. Mr.

868
00:59:49,370 --> 00:59:53,307
Peterson, this is on you. I'm sorry. There was another

869
00:59:53,307 --> 00:59:57,111
person that also signed up to speak on number 13.

870
00:59:57,111 --> 00:59:59,180
But you didn't. Put our number.

871
00:59:59,180 --> 01:00:01,580
It's pretty soon. Okay.

872
01:00:02,117 --> 01:00:05,386
Mr. Peterson, you're Mr. Peterson, you're on number 14.

873
01:00:05,386 --> 01:00:07,655
You have three minutes. I'm waiting for the also for

874
01:00:07,655 --> 01:00:12,193
the timer to come up. There you go.

875
01:00:12,193 --> 01:00:15,463
Thank you. Well, I think I sort of have the same concern, too,

876
01:00:15,463 --> 01:00:19,467
about the cybersecurity, and I'm. I'm hoping that we have

877
01:00:19,467 --> 01:00:23,700
some young folks that are listening. Fiber optic

878
01:00:23,700 --> 01:00:27,270
cybersecurity, A1 awesome. Three three, three industries

879
01:00:30,544 --> 01:00:35,820
that we really need to make sure that our young people are

880
01:00:35,820 --> 01:00:39,954
going to be involved in these in these three areas, booming

881
01:00:39,954 --> 01:00:43,825
businesses, not just across this country, but across the

882
01:00:43,825 --> 01:00:49,630
world. So I would also like to know, I see it's only 138,000.

883
01:00:49,630 --> 01:00:54,435
Mr. Mayor, but can you tell us are they going to be reaching

884
01:00:54,435 --> 01:00:58,380
out into the community to make sure that our local young folks

885
01:00:58,380 --> 01:01:03,244
are going to be getting employment for this project?

886
01:01:03,244 --> 01:01:07,916
And I don't know if that person is here to speak, but once upon

887
01:01:07,916 --> 01:01:11,986
a time, Mr. Mayor, when we had the city council meetings,

888
01:01:11,986 --> 01:01:17,525
these persons names on these on these very projects, we're

889
01:01:17,525 --> 01:01:20,995
supposed to be here, sitting over there. And when we

890
01:01:20,995 --> 01:01:25,000
citizens have questions, they're supposed to come up and

891
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:28,403
answer the questions. Now, here's going to be another

892
01:01:28,403 --> 01:01:31,873
project that we need to find out how many of our local

893
01:01:31,873 --> 01:01:36,811
citizens will be able to get employment on this project.

894
01:01:36,811 --> 01:01:40,411
Also, is that person here tonight?

895
01:01:40,623 --> 01:01:45,361
So, Mr. Peterson, you've been doing this longer than I have?

896
01:01:45,361 --> 01:01:47,230
Yes. We have work sessions and I'm

897
01:01:47,230 --> 01:01:49,365
going to pause your time because I don't want this to be

898
01:01:49,365 --> 01:01:52,702
misleading. We have work sessions, and that's where we

899
01:01:52,702 --> 01:01:54,770
go into detail about these things. And we also invite

900
01:01:54,770 --> 01:01:58,507
people to come to the meeting or we actually have, you know,

901
01:01:58,507 --> 01:02:01,177
some time where we can engage. That's why we do those things.

902
01:02:01,177 --> 01:02:03,113
Two weeks before tonight. Tonight, we're just we're

903
01:02:03,113 --> 01:02:07,784
getting to the voting of it. So staff is available to answer

904
01:02:07,784 --> 01:02:10,119
any questions. But tonight you're providing public

905
01:02:10,119 --> 01:02:12,922
comment. So you're letting us know how you feel about it

906
01:02:12,922 --> 01:02:14,991
before we actually take the vote, because the work on it

907
01:02:14,991 --> 01:02:18,995
has been done. And so we have time to go through that. And if

908
01:02:18,995 --> 01:02:21,330
there is other questions, you know, we want you to make sure

909
01:02:21,330 --> 01:02:24,868
you reach out ahead of time. But what I won't do is go back

910
01:02:24,868 --> 01:02:27,337
and forth at the podium with the staff member, myself and

911
01:02:27,337 --> 01:02:30,874
the speaker. That's just not how I facilitate the meeting,

912
01:02:30,874 --> 01:02:32,341
and that's just not how it works.

913
01:02:32,341 --> 01:02:34,410
Well, let me just share this with you, Mr. Mayor.

914
01:02:34,410 --> 01:02:37,680
Tom, go ahead. And I've been involved with

915
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:43,419
this city since 1978. You're the first mayor that is not

916
01:02:43,419 --> 01:02:49,419
allowing your staff. That's being paid to come here and

917
01:02:49,893 --> 01:02:53,763
address us. Not everybody can get to the work session. And

918
01:02:53,763 --> 01:02:58,501
first thing, the room is too small. Okay? It's too small. I

919
01:02:58,501 --> 01:03:03,239
know in the past, persons can come to staff that's being paid,

920
01:03:03,239 --> 01:03:07,377
should be able to be here and answer the questions. We only

921
01:03:07,377 --> 01:03:10,513
have a few minutes and it should be very easy for

922
01:03:10,513 --> 01:03:14,917
somebody to tell us exactly what these dollars are going to

923
01:03:14,917 --> 01:03:19,522
be used for. Exactly. Had they gone out into the community,

924
01:03:19,522 --> 01:03:23,259
how many jobs are going to be set aside for the minority

925
01:03:23,259 --> 01:03:27,530
community? And the city has done that in the past. How many

926
01:03:27,530 --> 01:03:31,130
women, how many African-Americans? So here

927
01:03:31,201 --> 01:03:36,339
we've had one project over close to $7 million. We have

928
01:03:36,339 --> 01:03:41,411
another project here, 138,000, and we can't even get one

929
01:03:41,411 --> 01:03:46,616
answer to make sure that the community, particularly the

930
01:03:46,616 --> 01:03:50,216
African-American community, particularly women, that that

931
01:03:50,753 --> 01:03:54,230
that are going to be getting employment on a lot of these

932
01:03:54,230 --> 01:03:57,960
projects. And when I'm going to just say this last thing, this

933
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:02,698
is our money, this is the people's monies, and we have a

934
01:04:02,698 --> 01:04:08,698
right to know who you're hiring, who you're hiring, and

935
01:04:08,704 --> 01:04:12,909
who is getting these dollars. And stop trying to act like

936
01:04:12,909 --> 01:04:17,246
when we ask questions, they're not important. They are

937
01:04:17,246 --> 01:04:21,250
important. You're speaking about tax dollars here. Thank

938
01:04:21,250 --> 01:04:24,320
you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. And I don't want you

939
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,457
to feel misled. And I don't want anyone else to be misled.

940
01:04:27,457 --> 01:04:30,125
We provide ample amount of time so that we can engage on these

941
01:04:30,125 --> 01:04:34,664
things. Ample amount of time. And there's not a single time

942
01:04:34,664 --> 01:04:36,732
that anyone leaves this room without having a question

943
01:04:36,732 --> 01:04:38,934
answer. It won't happen while you're speaking at the podium.

944
01:04:38,934 --> 01:04:41,603
But if you have a question, that's why all of these very

945
01:04:41,603 --> 01:04:44,406
capable staff are here to be able to answer any questions.

946
01:04:44,406 --> 01:04:47,944
So I will not I will not let it be the narrative that people

947
01:04:47,944 --> 01:04:51,481
cannot be informed on how things on this agenda works.

948
01:04:51,481 --> 01:04:55,351
And that has always been the case. Okay, that I just want

949
01:04:55,351 --> 01:05:01,557
you said it and I want to make sure it's very clear. All right,

950
01:05:01,557 --> 01:05:04,560
all. Right. Answer the question. But

951
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:10,500
you are not allowed to do that. And we're going to and I will

952
01:05:10,500 --> 01:05:13,368
and I and I also will love to speak with you afterward, but I

953
01:05:13,368 --> 01:05:15,705
don't I don't want to have narratives that are going to be

954
01:05:15,705 --> 01:05:18,841
misleading. All right, colleagues, I'll entertain a

955
01:05:18,841 --> 01:05:22,311
motion to adopt the fiscal year 2023 state and local

956
01:05:22,311 --> 01:05:27,111
cybersecurity grant program, SLC Grant Project Ordinance and

957
01:05:27,583 --> 01:05:32,521
authorizes the execution of the grant agreement and the amount

958
01:05:32,521 --> 01:05:34,521
of $138,059. So moved.

959
01:05:35,858 --> 01:05:37,926
It's been moved and properly seconded. Madam clerk, please

960
01:05:37,926 --> 01:05:42,126
open the vote. Please go to vote.

961
01:05:43,866 --> 01:05:48,666
Motion passes seven zero. Thank you so much.

962
01:05:51,541 --> 01:05:55,741
All right. First up, item number 21. This

963
01:06:00,750 --> 01:06:04,687
is consolidated Annexation Beverage. Ready for the staff

964
01:06:04,687 --> 01:06:08,287
report. Mayor Williams Mayor Pro Tem

965
01:06:14,563 --> 01:06:17,166
Caballero and honorable council members. Good evening. I am

966
01:06:17,166 --> 01:06:18,834
Peyton Burgess with the Planning and Development

967
01:06:18,834 --> 01:06:21,170
Department, and I am happy to be here with you tonight.

968
01:06:21,170 --> 01:06:23,706
Before I begin, staff would like to state for the record

969
01:06:23,706 --> 01:06:25,842
that all planning department hearing items have been

970
01:06:25,842 --> 01:06:28,511
advertised and noticed in accordance with state and local

971
01:06:28,511 --> 01:06:31,380
law, and affidavits of all notices are on file in the

972
01:06:31,380 --> 01:06:34,650
Planning Department. A request for a utility extension

973
01:06:34,650 --> 01:06:38,540
agreement, voluntary annexation and initial zoning map change

974
01:06:38,540 --> 01:06:41,390
has been received from Kate Murdoch, with McAdams for one

975
01:06:41,390 --> 01:06:46,190
parcel of land totaling 78.34 acres and located at 3013

976
01:06:46,529 --> 01:06:50,199
Burton Road. This annexation petition is for a contiguous

977
01:06:50,199 --> 01:06:53,690
expansion of the primary corporate limits. As a part of

978
01:06:53,690 --> 01:06:55,805
this application, the applicant is seeking a change to the

979
01:06:55,805 --> 01:06:58,740
zoning district from residential, rural, commercial,

980
01:06:58,740 --> 01:07:01,143
neighborhood and residential suburban ten to plan

981
01:07:01,143 --> 01:07:05,214
development. Residential 3.975 to allow up to 300 dwelling

982
01:07:05,214 --> 01:07:10,420
units and a maximum of 5000ft of non-residential uses. The

983
01:07:10,420 --> 01:07:12,622
property is currently designated Mixed Residential,

984
01:07:12,622 --> 01:07:15,157
neighborhood and Recreation and open space on the place type

985
01:07:15,157 --> 01:07:19,957
map. The proposed PDR 3.975 zoning is generally consistent

986
01:07:20,229 --> 01:07:22,965
with the designated place type. Thank you. Staff and the

987
01:07:22,965 --> 01:07:26,565
applicant are available for any questions.

988
01:07:26,702 --> 01:07:29,305
Thank you. You've heard the staff report. Are there any

989
01:07:29,305 --> 01:07:34,430
questions, technical questions or comments? All right. At this

990
01:07:34,430 --> 01:07:40,430
time, I'll declare the public hearing open. So an applicant.

991
01:07:40,516 --> 01:07:43,252
Welcome. How much time do you think you need?

992
01:07:43,252 --> 01:07:46,655
Six minutes. All right. Please put eight

993
01:07:46,655 --> 01:07:50,533
minutes on the clock. Thank you, Mr. Burgess, for

994
01:07:50,533 --> 01:07:52,668
your presentation. And good evening, Mayor Williams. Mayor

995
01:07:52,668 --> 01:07:56,605
Pro Tem Caballero and members of the City council. I'm Neil

996
01:07:56,605 --> 01:07:58,808
Ghosh, an attorney at the Morningstar Law Group at 700

997
01:07:58,808 --> 01:08:01,678
West Main Street. We have some folks from McAdams here with us

998
01:08:01,678 --> 01:08:05,348
tonight. And I know Laura is here. Maybe Ben is in the

999
01:08:05,348 --> 01:08:08,818
audience from McAdams, as well as our traffic consultant,

1000
01:08:08,818 --> 01:08:12,221
Tyler Blaine with exalt. And our client on this project is

1001
01:08:12,221 --> 01:08:15,758
Ashton Woods Homes. This property is located at the

1002
01:08:15,758 --> 01:08:19,950
corner of Burton and East Geer Street, south of I-85, which is

1003
01:08:19,950 --> 01:08:23,166
actually less than a 15 minute drive from right here. It's

1004
01:08:23,166 --> 01:08:25,768
past the Walmart on Glenn School Road, past Glenn School

1005
01:08:25,768 --> 01:08:30,390
Elementary, Eric Glenn Elementary School. And a few

1006
01:08:30,390 --> 01:08:32,575
other businesses too. And I just wanted to point out that

1007
01:08:32,575 --> 01:08:36,245
this is not like a rural area by any means. And in fact,

1008
01:08:36,245 --> 01:08:40,916
between us and I-85 to the north, it's somewhat industrial

1009
01:08:40,916 --> 01:08:43,920
in character, and that's actually reflected on the place

1010
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:47,657
side map. Currently, the properties in the county, it

1011
01:08:47,657 --> 01:08:50,326
has a house on it and some old farm structures, and it also

1012
01:08:50,326 --> 01:08:54,197
has an active cell tower. Historically, on the south side

1013
01:08:54,197 --> 01:08:57,267
of this property, there was a railroad, and it was long ago

1014
01:08:57,267 --> 01:09:00,270
abandoned. And now it's planned for the Panther Creek Rail

1015
01:09:00,270 --> 01:09:03,606
Trail. And I'll touch more on that later. On the other side

1016
01:09:03,606 --> 01:09:06,543
of that rail trail, there's an active residential development

1017
01:09:06,543 --> 01:09:11,213
called Carpenter Falls. This assemblage is adjacent to the

1018
01:09:11,213 --> 01:09:15,284
primary corporate limits of the city of Durham. At full build

1019
01:09:15,284 --> 01:09:19,556
out, the project will include up to 300 homes, a minimum of

1020
01:09:19,556 --> 01:09:23,893
200 of which will be townhomes. And you can see on the graphic

1021
01:09:23,893 --> 01:09:26,629
development plan that there is a stream pretty much down the

1022
01:09:26,629 --> 01:09:30,366
entire west side of the property. You can also see that

1023
01:09:30,366 --> 01:09:33,436
we are not crossing that stream, so there's a lot of

1024
01:09:33,436 --> 01:09:36,839
undisturbed area. We also have a commitment that limits

1025
01:09:36,839 --> 01:09:40,243
development within the floodplain to basically only

1026
01:09:40,243 --> 01:09:43,246
infrastructure. There's also a wildlife corridor on this

1027
01:09:43,246 --> 01:09:47,784
property, which mostly follows that old railroad area. At the

1028
01:09:47,784 --> 01:09:52,584
Planning Commission hearing, our development plan showed our

1029
01:09:52,788 --> 01:09:55,191
building and parking envelope within a small portion of the

1030
01:09:55,191 --> 01:09:58,727
wildlife corridor, which was a mistake. And since then, we

1031
01:09:58,727 --> 01:10:01,597
have revised our development plan so that the building and

1032
01:10:01,597 --> 01:10:06,803
parking envelope are outside of the wildlife corridor. And

1033
01:10:06,803 --> 01:10:10,205
that's reflected in your agenda materials. I mentioned before

1034
01:10:10,205 --> 01:10:13,750
that the old rail trail area is planned for the Panther Creek

1035
01:10:13,750 --> 01:10:17,413
Rail Trail, and at Planning Commission, we added a

1036
01:10:17,413 --> 01:10:20,816
commitment to dedicate an easement for that trail, which

1037
01:10:20,816 --> 01:10:24,486
is what we felt comfortable with on the spot. Since then,

1038
01:10:24,486 --> 01:10:27,890
we've had the opportunity to study this some more, and I

1039
01:10:27,890 --> 01:10:30,960
think we can improve upon that commitment rather than dedicate

1040
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:34,363
an easement for the Greenway. We want to commit to building

1041
01:10:34,363 --> 01:10:36,299
the Greenway, at least a portion of the greenway that's

1042
01:10:36,299 --> 01:10:39,235
on our property. And I think that's a great improvement from

1043
01:10:39,235 --> 01:10:41,971
where we were and hopefully will help spur further

1044
01:10:41,971 --> 01:10:46,509
development of that greenway by the city and by others. I also

1045
01:10:46,509 --> 01:10:49,912
want to touch on traffic. The staff report indicates the most

1046
01:10:49,912 --> 01:10:54,583
recent AA for both Cheek and Burton are well below the

1047
01:10:54,583 --> 01:10:58,521
design capacity for each of those roads. Nevertheless, this

1048
01:10:58,521 --> 01:11:03,590
project was required to do a Tia because of the projected

1049
01:11:03,590 --> 01:11:06,195
number of trips, and that study was very conservative. In

1050
01:11:06,195 --> 01:11:09,799
addition to the site driveways, it included studying eight

1051
01:11:09,799 --> 01:11:13,999
intersections. The project site traffic triggered mitigation,

1052
01:11:14,269 --> 01:11:18,875
and one of those intersections, which is east gear at Burton. A

1053
01:11:18,875 --> 01:11:21,277
traffic signal will be required there, in addition to a

1054
01:11:21,277 --> 01:11:25,281
westbound left turn lane. The project also will require left

1055
01:11:25,281 --> 01:11:28,684
and right turn lanes on both site driveways. One of the more

1056
01:11:28,684 --> 01:11:31,754
interesting things from the study is that the intersection

1057
01:11:31,754 --> 01:11:34,757
there is expected to need these improvements, regardless of

1058
01:11:34,757 --> 01:11:37,760
whether this development occurs just based off of the

1059
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:41,764
background growth alone. So this project will provide that

1060
01:11:41,764 --> 01:11:44,900
infrastructure to the benefit of the public to the tune of

1061
01:11:44,900 --> 01:11:49,572
about $2 million. As you all know, this is a growing area,

1062
01:11:49,572 --> 01:11:52,410
but the growth right here has not been as rapid as it has

1063
01:11:52,410 --> 01:11:55,511
been in other parts of the city. Many of the existing

1064
01:11:55,511 --> 01:12:00,116
homes near this property were were built under the code that

1065
01:12:00,116 --> 01:12:04,454
was active prior to the current UDL. So, you know, before 2005,

1066
01:12:04,454 --> 01:12:07,256
a lot of the homes were built there. But there is, of course,

1067
01:12:07,256 --> 01:12:09,859
the Carpenter Falls community, which starts to get developed

1068
01:12:09,859 --> 01:12:14,630
in 2024 and still is under development. Nevertheless, the

1069
01:12:14,630 --> 01:12:17,333
Comp plan recognizes the potential for growth here. The

1070
01:12:17,333 --> 01:12:20,200
place type map designation for the property is mixed

1071
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:22,739
residential neighborhood, and the project includes a mix of

1072
01:12:22,739 --> 01:12:26,800
housing types including affordable housing. We also

1073
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:30,613
have a monetary contribution to DPS that is $5,000, but we want

1074
01:12:30,613 --> 01:12:36,613
to increase that amount to $12,750. We have open space and

1075
01:12:36,686 --> 01:12:40,289
tree cover in excess of UDL requirements. We limit our

1076
01:12:40,289 --> 01:12:44,930
impervious to no more than 50% and limit all impacts to the

1077
01:12:44,930 --> 01:12:47,960
floodplain and wildlife corridor areas and limit them

1078
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:49,966
to essentially just infrastructure in the Greenway.

1079
01:12:49,966 --> 01:12:52,902
I think this is an ideal development in this location.

1080
01:12:52,902 --> 01:12:56,638
We added with the added commitment regarding, you know,

1081
01:12:56,638 --> 01:12:59,575
now the construction of the trail and the roughly $2

1082
01:12:59,575 --> 01:13:03,112
million worth of transportation infrastructure improvements and

1083
01:13:03,112 --> 01:13:06,115
the affordable housing the project provides clear public

1084
01:13:06,115 --> 01:13:10,119
benefits. And I will also say that I did not expect when we

1085
01:13:10,119 --> 01:13:13,322
worked on this project, the amount of support that we had

1086
01:13:13,322 --> 01:13:17,860
for this project. I know we have opposition as well, but a

1087
01:13:17,860 --> 01:13:20,796
lot of property owners in this area have long desired to gain

1088
01:13:20,796 --> 01:13:24,666
access to city water and sewer. There is already a water line

1089
01:13:24,666 --> 01:13:28,871
in east gear which we will be extending down Burton. The real

1090
01:13:28,871 --> 01:13:32,341
issue in this area has been access to sewer. The existing

1091
01:13:32,341 --> 01:13:36,412
sewer force main that will be tapping into is south of us. So

1092
01:13:36,412 --> 01:13:40,483
it's like in that railroad area and we will be extending sewer

1093
01:13:40,483 --> 01:13:45,821
from there through our site up to both Burton and Geer, which

1094
01:13:45,821 --> 01:13:49,892
will bring that utility a lot closer to many property owners.

1095
01:13:49,892 --> 01:13:52,828
As you know, this project was strongly recommended for

1096
01:13:52,828 --> 01:13:55,365
approval by the Planning Commission on an eight two

1097
01:13:55,365 --> 01:13:58,367
vote. So we're very proud of that. We hope to have your

1098
01:13:58,367 --> 01:14:01,176
support tonight as well, and our team is available to answer

1099
01:14:01,176 --> 01:14:06,782
any questions you may have. Thank you for your time tonight.

1100
01:14:06,782 --> 01:14:13,382
Thank you for your presentation. Good one. All right. I have

1101
01:14:22,997 --> 01:14:28,397
just a few speakers here starting online. Penny mace.

1102
01:14:36,611 --> 01:14:43,211
Penny Mayes, can you hear me? Mr. mayor, miss May's unmuted,

1103
01:14:48,900 --> 01:14:54,690
but we can't hear her. Miss Mayes, can you hear us?

1104
01:14:59,300 --> 01:15:05,900
All right. I'll go ahead and start in person. Donna, stand

1105
01:15:07,175 --> 01:15:13,175
back. Thomas. Leighton. Tammy. Tammy. Not sure which one. Is

1106
01:15:16,517 --> 01:15:20,588
that? Timisoara. All right. Pam Williams, Tina mottley.

1107
01:15:20,588 --> 01:15:25,988
Pearson. Pam. Andrews, Wanda. Allen, Vicki King. I'm assuming

1108
01:15:32,267 --> 01:15:40,670
you all know why I called you all up. Welcome. You have three

1109
01:15:57,626 --> 01:16:01,826
minutes. Good evening. My name is Tina

1110
01:16:14,376 --> 01:16:19,470
motley Pearson, and my address is on file. This area has

1111
01:16:19,470 --> 01:16:22,718
already been overwhelmed by development over the past three

1112
01:16:22,718 --> 01:16:27,255
years. The map clearly shows multiple approved projects

1113
01:16:27,255 --> 01:16:31,455
totaling 890 new dwelling units, bringing an estimated

1114
01:16:31,926 --> 01:16:37,326
77,200 additional vehicle trips per day. That's not a small

1115
01:16:37,666 --> 01:16:42,270
impact. That's a significant and growing strain on our roads

1116
01:16:42,270 --> 01:16:46,141
and community. And yet, the biggest issue remains

1117
01:16:46,141 --> 01:16:50,941
unresolved. The infrastructure simply does not exist to

1118
01:16:51,346 --> 01:16:56,151
support this level of growth. We are already seeing the

1119
01:16:56,151 --> 01:17:00,422
consequences. They are well documented concerns about sewer

1120
01:17:00,422 --> 01:17:03,892
capacity. And just as critically, there are gaps in

1121
01:17:03,892 --> 01:17:09,292
fire service, police and EMS coverage policy. 122 is not

1122
01:17:11,330 --> 01:17:15,360
vague. It clearly designates these as future growth areas

1123
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:19,173
where infrastructure and service upgrades are required.

1124
01:17:19,173 --> 01:17:24,513
Required, not optional. The data in front of you shows

1125
01:17:24,513 --> 01:17:28,713
clear deficiencies. Fire service gaps across Fletcher's

1126
01:17:28,850 --> 01:17:34,250
Chapel, Hamlin Road, Stallings Road and others, along with

1127
01:17:34,456 --> 01:17:39,256
areas already struggling with sewer capacity. Approving more

1128
01:17:40,128 --> 01:17:44,199
development under these conditions is not planning.

1129
01:17:44,199 --> 01:17:47,669
It's ignoring reality. You're being asked to move forward

1130
01:17:47,669 --> 01:17:51,406
without basic services needed to protect public safety and

1131
01:17:51,406 --> 01:17:55,344
support existing residents. This is not responsible growth.

1132
01:17:55,344 --> 01:18:01,344
This is growth. Without a foundation. Thank you very much.

1133
01:18:03,352 --> 01:18:06,221
Welcome. You have three minutes.

1134
01:18:06,221 --> 01:18:08,423
Thank you so much. Good evening. My name is Pamela

1135
01:18:08,423 --> 01:18:12,293
Andrews. Fire infrastructure is not adequate in southeast

1136
01:18:12,293 --> 01:18:15,830
Durham, as Tina just showed you. Policy 122 clearly shows

1137
01:18:15,830 --> 01:18:18,567
the need for fire service expansion before more homes are

1138
01:18:18,567 --> 01:18:21,703
built. Four times within this policy, fire service needs are

1139
01:18:21,703 --> 01:18:24,639
mentioned. It just as Tina shows you. That's correct

1140
01:18:24,639 --> 01:18:27,509
there. The City of Durham fire stations, which would primarily

1141
01:18:27,509 --> 01:18:30,978
serve Belle Reach, is station nine. Redwood Volunteer Fire

1142
01:18:30,978 --> 01:18:34,480
Station, funded by the county, would likely respond as well.

1143
01:18:34,480 --> 01:18:38,520
These units will respond to calls in over 68 new

1144
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:41,923
subdivisions in southeast Durham, along with current

1145
01:18:41,923 --> 01:18:45,393
residents, as well, straining the current resources. Next

1146
01:18:45,393 --> 01:18:49,797
slide. In October of 2022, the fire department audit was done.

1147
01:18:49,797 --> 01:18:52,670
Recognizing that higher response times than the

1148
01:18:52,670 --> 01:18:56,267
national standard dictated national Fire Code 1710 for

1149
01:18:57,400 --> 01:19:01,142
fire response time is six minutes and 30s, the two

1150
01:19:01,142 --> 01:19:04,612
nearest city fire stations are station nine and three, and

1151
01:19:04,612 --> 01:19:07,820
will not likely meet the response time standards

1152
01:19:07,820 --> 01:19:10,952
referenced in the audit. Even in ideal conditions. Station

1153
01:19:10,952 --> 01:19:15,556
three A city station would be 5.6 miles away, or a 12 minute

1154
01:19:15,556 --> 01:19:20,895
drive. During non-peak traffic hours. Station nine will be 7.4

1155
01:19:20,895 --> 01:19:25,767
miles away or a 13 minute drive during non-peak hours as well.

1156
01:19:25,767 --> 01:19:29,704
The County volunteer fire station, Redwood, is 2.3 miles

1157
01:19:29,704 --> 01:19:33,975
away, or four minutes during non-peak hours. However, it

1158
01:19:33,975 --> 01:19:36,978
does not have a ladder truck to service the 200 townhomes

1159
01:19:36,978 --> 01:19:40,582
planned. Of the 300 dwellings. The city fire stations would

1160
01:19:40,582 --> 01:19:45,921
not meet the NFPA 1710 standard of six minutes, and 30s

1161
01:19:45,921 --> 01:19:49,524
referenced in the audit, because there is not a fire

1162
01:19:49,524 --> 01:19:53,461
station in close proximity. The city might contact contract

1163
01:19:53,461 --> 01:19:57,132
with Redwood Volunteer Fire Station. Again, City Station

1164
01:19:57,132 --> 01:20:00,936
nine is the primary station for this parcel. However, mutual

1165
01:20:00,936 --> 01:20:03,805
aid will come, of course, but how long will that take for

1166
01:20:03,805 --> 01:20:07,743
this isolated corner of Durham County? The success of

1167
01:20:07,743 --> 01:20:11,217
Abundance Agenda should be measured by outcomes. Housing

1168
01:20:11,217 --> 01:20:14,217
supply, stronger infrastructure, reliable access

1169
01:20:14,554 --> 01:20:17,557
to EMS, fire and police services, and fiscal

1170
01:20:17,557 --> 01:20:21,494
resilience, not approvals alone. Do not approve density

1171
01:20:21,494 --> 01:20:24,431
for the purpose of density or adding short term revenue

1172
01:20:24,431 --> 01:20:27,234
without clarity on the downstream planning needed for

1173
01:20:27,234 --> 01:20:30,170
resulting expenditures. To ensure public health and

1174
01:20:30,170 --> 01:20:35,709
safety. This sets out in the county. There is nothing near

1175
01:20:35,709 --> 01:20:40,180
it. Yes, 85 has a few industrials along the edges.

1176
01:20:40,180 --> 01:20:43,382
The old Kenworth Park that's been there forever. The truck

1177
01:20:43,382 --> 01:20:47,386
in store. But there's not other things around. Now you're going

1178
01:20:47,386 --> 01:20:50,856
to extend fire services out whether it can't get there in

1179
01:20:50,856 --> 01:20:54,460
the required National standard Time. That's just not

1180
01:20:54,460 --> 01:20:57,930
acceptable. Guys, we're putting lives in jeopardy. Please say

1181
01:20:57,930 --> 01:21:01,530
no. Thank you. Welcome. You have

1182
01:21:02,936 --> 01:21:07,736
three minutes. Tammy. Sawyer, my address is on

1183
01:21:08,274 --> 01:21:12,145
file. This is going to be like a broken record, but we need to

1184
01:21:12,145 --> 01:21:16,150
be talking about this police shortage. We know we have a

1185
01:21:16,150 --> 01:21:20,815
police shortage. It's 11 miles to this address. Policy 119

1186
01:21:22,822 --> 01:21:27,260
says ensure new development within the IRB or within

1187
01:21:27,260 --> 01:21:31,970
established levels of service for emergency services. That

1188
01:21:31,970 --> 01:21:37,970
includes fire, medical, police and public safety EMS. This is

1189
01:21:39,372 --> 01:21:45,972
the biggest concern right now. EMS is a county run function,

1190
01:21:46,513 --> 01:21:52,510
not EMS has not been addressed or analyzed. With all these

1191
01:21:52,510 --> 01:21:56,122
developments, and it's still not being analyzed before these

1192
01:21:56,122 --> 01:22:00,727
annexations come here. We have a community member that

1193
01:22:00,727 --> 01:22:05,131
monitors all the EMS. I'm going to state something of last

1194
01:22:05,131 --> 01:22:10,603
Thursday that he talked about a pregnant woman. Cause EMS can't

1195
01:22:10,603 --> 01:22:14,741
feel her legs. Durham has no first responders, no

1196
01:22:14,741 --> 01:22:20,146
ambulances, no EMS. Durham X Roxboro and Person County. If

1197
01:22:20,146 --> 01:22:25,180
they can respond, they could not. So what if it was you or

1198
01:22:25,180 --> 01:22:32,218
your family member? The growth in this area. We have grown in

1199
01:22:32,558 --> 01:22:35,895
southeast Durham to a population of Wilson. They will

1200
01:22:35,895 --> 01:22:40,299
say we still need buildings. We still need development. No, we

1201
01:22:40,299 --> 01:22:44,771
have meet our quota. We have to have our infrastructure and you

1202
01:22:44,771 --> 01:22:49,376
have to put people's safety in front of more development.

1203
01:22:49,376 --> 01:22:54,981
Please think about this before you move forward. Thank you.

1204
01:22:54,981 --> 01:22:58,584
Thank you. Welcome. You have three minutes.

1205
01:22:58,584 --> 01:23:02,255
Good evening, Mayor Williams and city council members. My

1206
01:23:02,255 --> 01:23:08,600
name is Donna. Stand. My address is on file as they

1207
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:11,731
mentioned earlier, this density is significantly higher than

1208
01:23:11,731 --> 01:23:17,470
the surrounding areas. If you look at the red star there,

1209
01:23:17,470 --> 01:23:21,341
that is the location of the site. And you see all the

1210
01:23:21,341 --> 01:23:24,341
surrounding volunteer agriculture districts. And

1211
01:23:26,679 --> 01:23:33,153
there's more on the other side of 85 that are nearby. This the

1212
01:23:33,153 --> 01:23:38,553
blue sites represent the volunteer ag districts. We have

1213
01:23:38,758 --> 01:23:44,758
more present value, present use value sites that are for

1214
01:23:46,299 --> 01:23:51,638
farming and for forests that are nearby. For planning

1215
01:23:51,638 --> 01:23:56,108
Commissioner on sage Brook, density as proposed would be

1216
01:23:56,108 --> 01:23:59,779
two great a burden and detract from the character and

1217
01:23:59,779 --> 01:24:05,184
aesthetics of the rural area, and it is indeed rural. I it's

1218
01:24:05,184 --> 01:24:10,857
proximity is not just the site, but is within a half mile of

1219
01:24:10,857 --> 01:24:13,257
other. Volunteer ag districts.

1220
01:24:14,727 --> 01:24:18,327
Considering per planning commission awoke considering

1221
01:24:19,399 --> 01:24:22,335
the high rate of development in southeast Durham and neighbors

1222
01:24:22,335 --> 01:24:25,271
struggling to cope with increased traffic and no

1223
01:24:25,271 --> 01:24:28,675
increase of necessary infrastructure. This project

1224
01:24:28,675 --> 01:24:33,413
does not seem to meet the needs of the community. Next slide.

1225
01:24:33,413 --> 01:24:40,613
And so what we have here is that there are major concerns

1226
01:24:41,554 --> 01:24:47,554
about the increase in the vehicles per day from the 2600

1227
01:24:48,227 --> 01:24:54,827
vehicles on the existing burden and with an increase of the

1228
01:24:56,636 --> 01:25:03,176
5180 vehicles per day. And then with year Street, we have an

1229
01:25:03,176 --> 01:25:07,976
increase of 2092 to the existing 5918 vehicles per day,

1230
01:25:13,453 --> 01:25:18,992
per the NCDOT. Average annual daily traffic. As you can see,

1231
01:25:18,992 --> 01:25:25,198
we have farm equipment pictured because in these areas you have

1232
01:25:25,198 --> 01:25:29,469
to share the roads, the farms where there first. But a lot of

1233
01:25:29,469 --> 01:25:34,874
people do not get that and understand that. And in the

1234
01:25:34,874 --> 01:25:41,414
state there are quite a few accidents because of trying to

1235
01:25:41,414 --> 01:25:48,354
mix areas as much as we're trying to these days. And there

1236
01:25:48,354 --> 01:25:54,954
have even been fatalities. So I would I know that they

1237
01:25:55,940 --> 01:25:58,831
mentioned Carpenter Falls is adjacent, but Carpenter Falls

1238
01:25:58,831 --> 01:26:03,310
is also a conservation subdivision. Thank you.

1239
01:26:04,237 --> 01:26:07,306
Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. You have

1240
01:26:07,306 --> 01:26:12,106
three minutes. Hello. My name is Wanda Allen.

1241
01:26:12,378 --> 01:26:16,115
I'd like for you to look at this slide. This project

1242
01:26:16,115 --> 01:26:21,515
directly impacts five streams that flow into Panther Creek

1243
01:26:21,791 --> 01:26:26,591
and ultimately into Raleigh Falls. Lake Raleigh's drinking

1244
01:26:26,929 --> 01:26:32,535
water. And this is not a protected system. It's already

1245
01:26:32,535 --> 01:26:37,335
impaired by settlement and pollution. We're not starting

1246
01:26:37,339 --> 01:26:42,780
here from a clean baseline. You guys. Follows Lake and Panther

1247
01:26:42,780 --> 01:26:48,780
Creek are already struggling, and this proposal on a minimum

1248
01:26:48,551 --> 01:26:53,951
stormwater standard that is not working today, especially on

1249
01:26:54,240 --> 01:27:00,240
steep slopes and on unstable Triassic basin soil, which is

1250
01:27:00,296 --> 01:27:04,300
on the site. Okay, I'm going to put it simple. You can't

1251
01:27:04,300 --> 01:27:09,973
protect drinking water if you continue to add pollution. A

1252
01:27:09,973 --> 01:27:15,373
system that is already failing. We're asking for practical

1253
01:27:15,712 --> 01:27:19,312
safeguards, strong stormwater controls designed for 100

1254
01:27:21,784 --> 01:27:24,784
years, stormwater real environmental monitoring.

1255
01:27:26,122 --> 01:27:32,122
During and after construction, such as treating the excuse me,

1256
01:27:35,198 --> 01:27:40,736
such as testing for turbidity before releasing it into the

1257
01:27:40,736 --> 01:27:45,674
streams and no variances. This is becoming a common problem.

1258
01:27:45,674 --> 01:27:50,130
They come back and ask for variances or shortcuts. These

1259
01:27:50,130 --> 01:27:56,553
are not extreme as they are what the site needs. The photos

1260
01:27:56,553 --> 01:28:00,756
that you're going to see tonight and on this slide shows

1261
01:28:00,756 --> 01:28:05,556
best management practices are not working. Approving this

1262
01:28:06,950 --> 01:28:10,990
project adds to that burden of the taxpayers having to clean

1263
01:28:10,990 --> 01:28:16,990
it up. Please require stronger protections and or vote no.

1264
01:28:21,511 --> 01:28:25,711
Thank you. Welcome. You have three minutes.

1265
01:28:26,716 --> 01:28:29,786
Good afternoon. My name is Pam Williams. My address is on

1266
01:28:29,786 --> 01:28:35,186
file. Panther Creek was is directly south downhill from

1267
01:28:35,592 --> 01:28:38,928
Gear Street for this project. So of course, you know the

1268
01:28:38,928 --> 01:28:43,600
water runs down here. And we also have the perennial strain

1269
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:50,740
of the major stream on the west side. We are asking since this

1270
01:28:50,740 --> 01:28:56,110
is traffic, soil and the new stormwater policies that was

1271
01:28:56,110 --> 01:29:00,216
put in are requirements that was put in in 2023 are not

1272
01:29:00,216 --> 01:29:03,486
working. We've seen them not work, and we've got pictures

1273
01:29:03,486 --> 01:29:06,422
showing that they're not working. We're asking for

1274
01:29:06,422 --> 01:29:10,559
undisturbed stream buffers where no sediment ponds,

1275
01:29:10,559 --> 01:29:13,229
grading, clear cut and retaining walls, sewer

1276
01:29:13,229 --> 01:29:17,429
easement, drainage ditches except for those absolutely

1277
01:29:17,434 --> 01:29:23,640
necessary, be put in the stream buffers. This is crucial to

1278
01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:27,376
maintaining Panther Creek in this area. Panther Creek, as

1279
01:29:27,376 --> 01:29:31,648
Wanda said, it's on the impair. It's impaired. It's on the 303

1280
01:29:31,648 --> 01:29:38,248
D list. And we need these mature trees and no disturbance

1281
01:29:38,988 --> 01:29:42,926
in the buffers to help with the sedimentation and the

1282
01:29:42,926 --> 01:29:47,130
filtration. It it is very important. And as you can see,

1283
01:29:47,130 --> 01:29:51,930
here's some examples of construction being 30ft from

1284
01:29:52,135 --> 01:29:56,939
100. In the 100 foot buffer. This is allowed. They could

1285
01:29:56,939 --> 01:30:01,277
take out all the trees on this one. This property line. Right.

1286
01:30:01,277 --> 01:30:03,947
This is on the property line. They're going to provide a 30

1287
01:30:03,947 --> 01:30:09,180
foot buffer, but only after they take 15 20ft down 1 or 2ft

1288
01:30:09,180 --> 01:30:13,423
from the property line. Sewer easement going through this

1289
01:30:13,423 --> 01:30:18,695
one. And also here they got a variance for the wetlands to

1290
01:30:18,695 --> 01:30:25,295
the stream. Also this area is per the City of Durham's

1291
01:30:25,635 --> 01:30:29,906
environmental justice map. It is right smack in the middle of

1292
01:30:29,906 --> 01:30:32,775
the environmental justice. There's a lot of people that

1293
01:30:32,775 --> 01:30:37,380
live out here in the residential homes on on the

1294
01:30:37,380 --> 01:30:41,785
side. Well, next to this property up on Geer Street, my

1295
01:30:41,785 --> 01:30:44,653
grandmother used to live right there at the corner of Gary

1296
01:30:44,653 --> 01:30:48,591
Street and Burt Road. I know this area very well, and these

1297
01:30:48,591 --> 01:30:53,196
people are not wealthy people, and we need to make sure we

1298
01:30:53,196 --> 01:30:57,200
provide for them the infrastructure, what is needed.

1299
01:30:57,200 --> 01:31:01,805
And looking at this heat island map where the store is, as you

1300
01:31:01,805 --> 01:31:06,800
can see, since it's mainly farm and trees and everything, it

1301
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:08,545
doesn't show the heat island, but where things have been

1302
01:31:08,545 --> 01:31:12,215
built, where development has been built, you can see what

1303
01:31:12,215 --> 01:31:18,154
the effects of are high density or higher density and high

1304
01:31:18,154 --> 01:31:24,930
impervious does to the heat island effect. In these areas.

1305
01:31:24,930 --> 01:31:29,899
We asked you to not approve this, and thank you very much.

1306
01:31:29,899 --> 01:31:34,990
Thank you. Welcome. You have three minutes.

1307
01:31:34,437 --> 01:31:36,837
Okay. I'm just I'm.

1308
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:39,709
Let me close this down. If I can.

1309
01:31:39,709 --> 01:31:44,509
Okay. We also had two people that had

1310
01:31:45,480 --> 01:31:49,251
signed up to speak. And you didn't call their name out.

1311
01:31:49,251 --> 01:31:53,523
Becky and Tom Freeman. So I don't know if they were on the

1312
01:31:53,523 --> 01:32:00,123
the list or not. But anyway. I'm 21 penny. Back in Tom

1313
01:32:14,344 --> 01:32:20,344
Freeman, I have done for 22, not 21. I'm sorry. Welcome. You

1314
01:32:21,160 --> 01:32:23,286
have three minutes. Okay.

1315
01:32:23,286 --> 01:32:25,488
My name is Vicki King. My address.

1316
01:32:25,488 --> 01:32:29,292
Is on file. I was raised in eastern Durham County and.

1317
01:32:29,292 --> 01:32:32,163
Still live right around the corner.

1318
01:32:32,163 --> 01:32:35,967
From the intersection of Burton and Cheek Road. I come here

1319
01:32:35,967 --> 01:32:39,837
tonight to ask the city Council to put in a temporary

1320
01:32:39,837 --> 01:32:45,777
moratorium of one year to stop all construction. I'm sorry.

1321
01:32:45,777 --> 01:32:49,514
Development in this county until the infrastructure can

1322
01:32:49,514 --> 01:32:54,914
catch up. Gridlock happens every day on I-85 northbound.

1323
01:32:55,853 --> 01:32:59,725
Let a wreck happen in Gear Street, becomes a freeway. I'm

1324
01:32:59,725 --> 01:33:03,995
not talking about a 35 mile an hour freeway, either. Just last

1325
01:33:03,995 --> 01:33:09,935
week, stop traffic was beyond from beyond Redwood Road on

1326
01:33:09,935 --> 01:33:15,935
I-85, all the way into town at Avondale Drive, 98. Highway 98

1327
01:33:16,875 --> 01:33:22,140
is a traffic jam both morning and evening. Burton Road is

1328
01:33:22,140 --> 01:33:26,814
becoming a traffic nightmare. What's Durham's answer? When

1329
01:33:26,885 --> 01:33:31,757
the reservoirs run out of water, what's Durham's answer to all

1330
01:33:31,757 --> 01:33:37,696
the shootings? What's Durham's answer to? No answer at all. At

1331
01:33:37,696 --> 01:33:41,296
911, communications, these are all infrastructure problems.

1332
01:33:42,901 --> 01:33:46,704
The public wants to know. We have asked the city council to

1333
01:33:46,704 --> 01:33:50,304
consider no deforestation, larger riparian buffers,

1334
01:33:53,712 --> 01:33:56,782
monitoring creeks and waterways that run through these

1335
01:33:56,782 --> 01:34:00,719
construction sites. But somehow those requests seem to get

1336
01:34:00,719 --> 01:34:06,119
overlooked. I asked again, please slow down the approval

1337
01:34:06,658 --> 01:34:10,858
of developments. With over 22,000 units constructed or

1338
01:34:14,198 --> 01:34:19,871
approved for construction, cut down on the density O and

1339
01:34:19,871 --> 01:34:25,271
there's currently 1547 units for sale in Durham County and

1340
01:34:26,411 --> 01:34:31,811
over 4400 units for rent. Thank you for your time.

1341
01:34:36,621 --> 01:34:42,210
Welcome. Your three minutes. Mr. mayor, I'm Talmage Layton.

1342
01:34:42,427 --> 01:34:45,430
I was signed up for this. I'm going to pass most of my time

1343
01:34:45,430 --> 01:34:49,340
here and wait until we get to Patterson Road to express how

1344
01:34:49,340 --> 01:34:52,237
much I'm interested in agriculture. And you promised.

1345
01:34:52,237 --> 01:34:54,906
The last time I was here, you would take into consideration

1346
01:34:54,906 --> 01:34:57,509
the value of agriculture to the community that you're

1347
01:34:57,509 --> 01:35:01,246
developing. I hope you all have continued to do that. And

1348
01:35:01,246 --> 01:35:04,249
you're welcome to add all my time from this one to the next

1349
01:35:04,249 --> 01:35:05,650
one, and I'll talk to you later.

1350
01:35:05,650 --> 01:35:09,720
I can't bank time, but thanks for your comments, Tom. Good

1351
01:35:09,720 --> 01:35:16,920
try. It's 20. Penny maze come up. Hello. Hi Miss Maze. Yes, I

1352
01:35:24,669 --> 01:35:27,339
can loud and clear. Welcome. You have three minutes.

1353
01:35:27,339 --> 01:35:30,475
Thank you. Thank you for allowing me to speak. I'm Kenny

1354
01:35:30,475 --> 01:35:34,146
Mays and my address is on file. And as you've already heard,

1355
01:35:34,146 --> 01:35:38,750
this area, southeast Durham is already taxed beyond capacity

1356
01:35:38,750 --> 01:35:42,887
for emergency services. With increasing traffic problems.

1357
01:35:42,887 --> 01:35:48,493
As, again, you've heard, when Carpenter Falls, sage Brook and

1358
01:35:48,493 --> 01:35:50,962
Panther Creek. Other developments that have been

1359
01:35:50,962 --> 01:35:55,500
approved are come our way. The traffic is going to be

1360
01:35:55,500 --> 01:36:00,105
tremendously increased, and God forbid that any of my family or

1361
01:36:00,105 --> 01:36:03,842
our neighbors have a heart attack or some other emergency.

1362
01:36:03,842 --> 01:36:07,779
Once all of this happens, and with all due respect to this

1363
01:36:07,779 --> 01:36:11,649
council, your decisions tonight very well may determine

1364
01:36:11,649 --> 01:36:15,854
someone's medical fate. And are they going to receive emergency

1365
01:36:15,854 --> 01:36:19,591
services, or were those services be so overtaxed that

1366
01:36:19,591 --> 01:36:23,462
lives are going to be lost in our area? Please make a

1367
01:36:23,462 --> 01:36:27,866
decision tonight that puts water quality, quality at the

1368
01:36:27,866 --> 01:36:32,270
forefront, because our water quality is in danger. Consider

1369
01:36:32,270 --> 01:36:37,876
our wildlife in this rural area and it is a rural area. And

1370
01:36:37,876 --> 01:36:42,480
please consider people's lives. These are very serious issues.

1371
01:36:42,480 --> 01:36:45,416
And before any other development is approved in this

1372
01:36:45,416 --> 01:36:49,888
area, we have to have more emergency services in place and

1373
01:36:49,888 --> 01:36:54,250
infrastructure to support the people who are going to

1374
01:36:54,250 --> 01:36:57,629
purchase housing in good faith that their basic needs are

1375
01:36:57,629 --> 01:37:02,633
going to be met. And as it stands, those basic needs of

1376
01:37:02,633 --> 01:37:09,233
safety and clean water are being put at risk. Thank you.

1377
01:37:09,241 --> 01:37:14,112
Thank you so much. Those are all of the speakers that I have

1378
01:37:14,112 --> 01:37:17,712
with the applicant. Like to respond.

1379
01:37:23,320 --> 01:37:27,792
Hello. Once again this is Neil from the Morningstar Law Group.

1380
01:37:27,792 --> 01:37:32,263
You know, I've been seeing the folks from rural Durham up here

1381
01:37:32,263 --> 01:37:36,801
for years, and generally they they get really good

1382
01:37:36,801 --> 01:37:39,871
information. And this is my only item on the agenda

1383
01:37:39,871 --> 01:37:42,206
tonight. So I don't know if maybe they had the wrong

1384
01:37:42,206 --> 01:37:44,876
presentation up, but if they didn't, that presentation was

1385
01:37:44,876 --> 01:37:48,346
very misleading. This project is not in any future growth

1386
01:37:48,346 --> 01:37:52,617
area. I would be real clear about that. This project, there

1387
01:37:52,617 --> 01:37:57,621
is no noted deficiencies from our utility statement analysis

1388
01:37:57,621 --> 01:38:00,910
that was done for this project. There's no noted deficiencies

1389
01:38:00,910 --> 01:38:03,940
in the comp plan as far as fire service, sewer service,

1390
01:38:03,940 --> 01:38:06,697
anything like that. I recognize that some of those concerns

1391
01:38:06,697 --> 01:38:08,833
exist, but one of the slides they had up there suggested

1392
01:38:08,833 --> 01:38:11,703
that this project is in a future growth area, and it

1393
01:38:11,703 --> 01:38:17,703
absolutely is not. There's also some mention, as we've heard

1394
01:38:18,776 --> 01:38:22,514
many times, about the need for infrastructure to keep up with

1395
01:38:22,514 --> 01:38:25,583
development. And I first of all, I agree with that

1396
01:38:25,583 --> 01:38:30,255
statement just generally. But I think that suggesting this

1397
01:38:30,255 --> 01:38:32,657
project doesn't provide its fair share of infrastructure or

1398
01:38:32,657 --> 01:38:35,527
do something about the infrastructure is incorrect. As

1399
01:38:35,527 --> 01:38:40,327
I mentioned in my initial presentation. The intersection,

1400
01:38:40,731 --> 01:38:43,402
the road improvements that this project is committing to and

1401
01:38:43,402 --> 01:38:47,139
would be required to do are needed for the network,

1402
01:38:47,139 --> 01:38:49,941
regardless of whether this project gets built based off

1403
01:38:49,941 --> 01:38:55,341
background traffic alone. There are there are potential traffic

1404
01:38:56,682 --> 01:39:01,220
issues on on the horizon. Maybe even greater than what has

1405
01:39:01,220 --> 01:39:04,490
already been described. But this project is providing

1406
01:39:04,490 --> 01:39:07,826
upwards of about $2 million worth of. And that's just

1407
01:39:07,826 --> 01:39:12,626
transportation infrastructure. That's to say nothing of the

1408
01:39:12,698 --> 01:39:16,969
public utilities that also are going going to be improved as

1409
01:39:16,969 --> 01:39:22,708
part of this project. I just want to make sure that we're

1410
01:39:22,708 --> 01:39:26,445
real clear on what this project is versus maybe, I don't know

1411
01:39:26,445 --> 01:39:29,314
if there's something else on the agenda, but this is not in

1412
01:39:29,314 --> 01:39:32,518
a future growth area at all. I mean, it's one of the this is

1413
01:39:32,518 --> 01:39:38,390
this project is been carefully planned by my client. Because

1414
01:39:38,390 --> 01:39:41,126
of the information in the comprehensive plan. And that's

1415
01:39:41,126 --> 01:39:44,930
why it received a strong recommendation of approval from

1416
01:39:44,930 --> 01:39:47,933
the Planning Commission. That's why it has a strong staff

1417
01:39:47,933 --> 01:39:51,670
report. This is a very good project in this location, and

1418
01:39:51,670 --> 01:39:55,407
it does a lot for it offers a lot in the way of public

1419
01:39:55,407 --> 01:39:57,807
benefits through infrastructure, affordable

1420
01:39:57,810 --> 01:40:01,747
housing, and now also building a portion of the Panther Creek

1421
01:40:01,747 --> 01:40:02,948
Trail. Thank you.

1422
01:40:02,948 --> 01:40:07,553
Thank you. I made a pretty significant mistake up here as

1423
01:40:07,553 --> 01:40:12,240
well. I as I'm getting used to our new way of organizing this,

1424
01:40:12,240 --> 01:40:17,290
I overlooked speakers under the applicant name. I'm used to

1425
01:40:17,290 --> 01:40:20,432
seeing them all above. So we do have more speakers. So to those

1426
01:40:20,432 --> 01:40:25,370
speakers, my apologies. Astrid Cooke, Mike Rowe, Cocoa Road

1427
01:40:25,370 --> 01:40:32,244
and Talmage Lake. If you all will come up. Okay, that's what

1428
01:40:32,244 --> 01:40:37,249
you were talking about. Okay. Sorry about that. Thank you,

1429
01:40:37,249 --> 01:40:39,649
Madam clerk. Hello. Hi.

1430
01:40:44,390 --> 01:40:47,860
Very rare that I would get to speak after the applicant

1431
01:40:47,860 --> 01:40:51,930
response. My name is Astrid Cooke. My address is on file

1432
01:40:51,930 --> 01:40:55,467
and I'm representing the Durham City County Environmental

1433
01:40:55,467 --> 01:40:58,871
Affairs Board, land use and planning committee. You all

1434
01:40:58,871 --> 01:41:02,141
should have received our letter on this case. And I just want

1435
01:41:02,141 --> 01:41:06,678
to read what I can tonight. The Durham Environmental Affairs

1436
01:41:06,678 --> 01:41:09,748
Board, land use and Planning subcommittee has reviewed the

1437
01:41:09,748 --> 01:41:13,619
Ridge case and offers the following comments solely

1438
01:41:13,619 --> 01:41:16,822
regarding environmental impacts. This site presents a

1439
01:41:16,822 --> 01:41:19,825
highly sensitive environmental context. It lies within the

1440
01:41:19,825 --> 01:41:24,290
falls of the noose. Jordan Lake Protected Area is underlain by

1441
01:41:24,290 --> 01:41:27,166
Triassic basin soils prone to erosion and persistent

1442
01:41:27,166 --> 01:41:30,569
turbidity, and is bordered along multiple edges by Panther

1443
01:41:30,569 --> 01:41:33,773
Creek and its associated floodway. The stream corridor

1444
01:41:33,773 --> 01:41:37,430
and adjacent floodplain are not peripheral peripheral to the

1445
01:41:37,430 --> 01:41:39,845
site, but define its environmental function and

1446
01:41:39,845 --> 01:41:43,582
connectivity to downstream waters. We acknowledge several

1447
01:41:43,582 --> 01:41:47,319
positive elements within the proposal. As the applicant has

1448
01:41:47,319 --> 01:41:51,924
elucidated in their in their presentation. However, we have

1449
01:41:51,924 --> 01:41:54,994
concerns that the proposal as currently structured, does not

1450
01:41:54,994 --> 01:41:58,130
adequately address the primary environmental risks associated

1451
01:41:58,130 --> 01:42:01,667
with the site. Most notably, the proposal does not include

1452
01:42:01,667 --> 01:42:05,471
any defined stormwater control measures at the rezoning stage.

1453
01:42:05,471 --> 01:42:09,800
Stormwater services has confirmed that no SEMs are

1454
01:42:09,800 --> 01:42:12,278
proposed within the development plan, with the expectation that

1455
01:42:12,278 --> 01:42:14,679
stormwater design will be addressed later during site

1456
01:42:14,679 --> 01:42:17,883
plan review. Given the site's location within a protected

1457
01:42:17,883 --> 01:42:21,687
watershed, its proximity to Panther Creek and the known

1458
01:42:21,687 --> 01:42:25,240
behavior of Triassic basin soils, deferring stormwater

1459
01:42:25,240 --> 01:42:28,360
strategy to a later stage represents a substantial gap

1460
01:42:28,360 --> 01:42:31,630
without clear commitments at rezoning. There is insufficient

1461
01:42:31,630 --> 01:42:34,433
assurance that runoff volume, peak flow and sediment

1462
01:42:34,433 --> 01:42:38,637
transport will be appropriately managed. While the development

1463
01:42:38,637 --> 01:42:41,574
plan limits direct building within the floodplain, it

1464
01:42:41,574 --> 01:42:44,176
allows for grading, utility installation and other

1465
01:42:44,176 --> 01:42:47,913
disturbances. These activities, particularly in proximity to

1466
01:42:47,913 --> 01:42:51,383
Panther Creek, can result in indirect impacts to floodplain

1467
01:42:51,383 --> 01:42:54,719
function, including increased sedimentation, altered flow

1468
01:42:54,719 --> 01:42:57,789
patterns, and downstream flooding. Stormwater staff has

1469
01:42:57,789 --> 01:43:01,590
also identified the need to evaluate future 1% flood

1470
01:43:01,590 --> 01:43:04,730
conditions, reinforcing that flood risk on and downstream of

1471
01:43:04,730 --> 01:43:09,268
the site is irrelevant and unresolved. Issue. Taken

1472
01:43:09,268 --> 01:43:12,470
together, these factors raised concerns that the project, as

1473
01:43:12,470 --> 01:43:14,539
currently proposed, may contribute to increased

1474
01:43:14,539 --> 01:43:17,943
sedimentation, degraded water quality and altered hydrology

1475
01:43:17,943 --> 01:43:21,146
in Panther Creek and downstream receiving waters. For these

1476
01:43:21,146 --> 01:43:24,216
reasons, we do not support the proposal in its current form.

1477
01:43:24,216 --> 01:43:26,751
At a minimum, support would require the applicant to

1478
01:43:26,751 --> 01:43:29,755
provide the following textual commitments a defined

1479
01:43:29,755 --> 01:43:33,225
stormwater management strategy at the rezoning stage.

1480
01:43:33,225 --> 01:43:36,227
Expansion of stream buffer buffer widths where steep

1481
01:43:36,227 --> 01:43:39,498
slopes or direct drainage to Panther Creek are present, with

1482
01:43:39,498 --> 01:43:42,701
buffers measured from the top of slope rather than the stream

1483
01:43:42,701 --> 01:43:45,570
bank. To reduce erosion risk and improve long term

1484
01:43:45,570 --> 01:43:46,772
protection of the stream corridor.

1485
01:43:46,772 --> 01:43:51,110
Thank you. Thank you, Miss Cook. Are you

1486
01:43:51,110 --> 01:43:53,779
speaking in your formal capacity on behalf of the EIB?

1487
01:43:53,779 --> 01:44:00,379
Yes. Director young, is it is it not appropriate to have

1488
01:44:01,386 --> 01:44:06,786
their report as part of the packet for consideration?

1489
01:44:07,526 --> 01:44:12,640
Good evening. I think staff has been working with EIB to bring

1490
01:44:12,640 --> 01:44:15,667
them into the review process so that they can act. You will see

1491
01:44:15,667 --> 01:44:19,137
their comments in the future like you do. The back comments,

1492
01:44:19,137 --> 01:44:22,740
but to date they have not been involved to that capacity. So I

1493
01:44:22,740 --> 01:44:24,410
think that will be a new change coming forward.

1494
01:44:24,410 --> 01:44:29,810
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Welcome. You have three

1495
01:44:30,149 --> 01:44:32,751
minutes. Hi. I'm Michael Rowe, myself

1496
01:44:32,751 --> 01:44:35,154
and Cocoa Road actually signed. Up to speak to agenda item

1497
01:44:35,154 --> 01:44:41,930
number 22. So I'd like to hold my time for that item.

1498
01:44:41,930 --> 01:44:43,428
Mr. Coco Rowe. Right. Yes. And Mike Rowe.

1499
01:44:43,428 --> 01:44:45,428
Yes, sir. Okay.

1500
01:44:46,765 --> 01:44:51,565
Thank you. All right. City sign up for 22.

1501
01:44:54,127 --> 01:45:01,927
I have them for. All right. Do you care to respond? That was

1502
01:45:04,404 --> 01:45:08,604
the. Neil Ghosh, again, on behalf of

1503
01:45:11,677 --> 01:45:16,282
the applicant. Assuming that's all the speakers. I will just

1504
01:45:16,282 --> 01:45:20,687
mention, I hadn't seen the the information from Oeb about

1505
01:45:20,687 --> 01:45:24,356
this, so I don't really have I haven't had the benefit to

1506
01:45:24,356 --> 01:45:26,626
review that ahead of time. Listening to the comments

1507
01:45:26,626 --> 01:45:30,960
though. I just wanted to point out that we do have commitments

1508
01:45:30,960 --> 01:45:33,165
in the development plan that limit any impacts in the

1509
01:45:33,165 --> 01:45:36,703
floodplain. And limit any impacts in the wildlife

1510
01:45:36,703 --> 01:45:40,390
corridor, but they are limited. That doesn't mean there won't

1511
01:45:40,390 --> 01:45:44,978
be any. And specifically, I believe the the Greenway trail,

1512
01:45:44,978 --> 01:45:50,516
which which has been well, we've committed to building the

1513
01:45:50,516 --> 01:45:54,454
portion of the Greenway Trail that's on the property that is

1514
01:45:54,454 --> 01:45:59,792
already planned in the open space trail plan, in part of

1515
01:45:59,792 --> 01:46:02,928
the property that has environmental, you know,

1516
01:46:02,928 --> 01:46:07,801
aspects to it, floodplain and the wildlife corridor are, I

1517
01:46:07,801 --> 01:46:11,604
believe, are exactly where that trail is located in the open

1518
01:46:11,604 --> 01:46:14,741
space trails plan. So there will you know, I'm gonna say

1519
01:46:14,741 --> 01:46:17,544
there's not going to be any impacts in that area. We have

1520
01:46:17,544 --> 01:46:20,613
specifically accepted those impacts with respect to

1521
01:46:20,613 --> 01:46:24,830
stormwater control. I appreciate that bringing being

1522
01:46:24,830 --> 01:46:27,220
brought up. I will say that the information presented, I think

1523
01:46:27,220 --> 01:46:31,157
I feel was accurate, accurate from Oeb, which is to say that

1524
01:46:31,157 --> 01:46:33,893
we didn't have any commitment specifically related in the

1525
01:46:33,893 --> 01:46:37,296
development plan to stormwater controls. And generally

1526
01:46:37,296 --> 01:46:39,966
speaking, that is the type of thing that will get brought up

1527
01:46:39,966 --> 01:46:43,169
and considered. Site plan. That having been said, I think we're

1528
01:46:43,169 --> 01:46:45,771
prepared tonight to add a commitment to handle the 100

1529
01:46:45,771 --> 01:46:49,241
year storm as part of this project. So we will add that

1530
01:46:49,241 --> 01:46:51,644
which I think is responsive to some of the comments we heard

1531
01:46:51,644 --> 01:46:58,510
from EAB just now. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Those are

1532
01:46:58,510 --> 01:47:01,388
all of the speakers that I have signed up for this case. So

1533
01:47:01,388 --> 01:47:03,656
therefore at this time, I have declared a public hearing

1534
01:47:03,656 --> 01:47:09,560
closed and back before the Council. All right. Colleagues.

1535
01:47:13,199 --> 01:47:19,799
Council Member Cook. Go ahead. Thank you. Mr. Gross. Will you

1536
01:47:21,207 --> 01:47:23,810
come back up? I'm going to actually read you the *** from

1537
01:47:23,810 --> 01:47:26,746
the Environmental Affairs Board letter. Since you hadn't heard

1538
01:47:26,746 --> 01:47:33,860
them. And I think you've addressed one of them. But a

1539
01:47:33,860 --> 01:47:35,488
defined stormwater management strategy at the rezoning stage.

1540
01:47:35,488 --> 01:47:40,359
So that one you have just talked about expansion of

1541
01:47:40,359 --> 01:47:43,280
stream buffer widths where steep slopes are directing

1542
01:47:43,280 --> 01:47:46,232
drainage to Panther Creek are present, with buffers measured

1543
01:47:46,232 --> 01:47:48,968
from the top slope rather than the stream bank to reduce

1544
01:47:48,968 --> 01:47:51,771
erosion risk and improve long term protection of the stream

1545
01:47:51,771 --> 01:47:55,108
corridor. I'm sorry, do you want me to

1546
01:47:55,108 --> 01:47:57,444
respond to that? I just want you to note them

1547
01:47:57,444 --> 01:48:01,847
because these are there are only six on here. And the

1548
01:48:01,847 --> 01:48:04,517
Environmental Affairs Board has identified all six of these as

1549
01:48:04,517 --> 01:48:08,388
being needed. Otherwise, they say that the they're concerned

1550
01:48:08,388 --> 01:48:10,923
that the development may result in long term degradation of

1551
01:48:10,923 --> 01:48:13,927
Panther Creek and downstream water sources. So you said you

1552
01:48:13,927 --> 01:48:16,262
hadn't seen it. I'm just reading them to you. So.

1553
01:48:16,262 --> 01:48:17,931
Sure, if you. Just make a comment.

1554
01:48:17,931 --> 01:48:19,265
Yes. For whatever reason, you're

1555
01:48:19,265 --> 01:48:21,801
standing right there. Yes, we're sitting right here. And I

1556
01:48:21,801 --> 01:48:24,203
cannot I don't know, there's something funny about this.

1557
01:48:24,203 --> 01:48:26,339
Because I thought it was just me. I can't really hear it

1558
01:48:26,339 --> 01:48:30,539
either. It's some type. Is it better?

1559
01:48:33,146 --> 01:48:38,840
I think so, yeah. Can you hear me now?

1560
01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:41,684
Yep. Okay, great. Okay. User error.

1561
01:48:42,888 --> 01:48:45,910
Okay. So I'm going to read you these because these are the

1562
01:48:45,910 --> 01:48:47,260
ones that they've identified all as needing. You said you

1563
01:48:47,260 --> 01:48:50,763
hadn't seen them. Is that true? Correct. Okay. So the first one

1564
01:48:50,763 --> 01:48:53,320
we just talked about which is the defined water stormwater

1565
01:48:53,320 --> 01:48:56,636
management strategy at the rezoning stage, then there's an

1566
01:48:56,636 --> 01:48:59,505
expansion of stream buffer widths where steep slopes or

1567
01:48:59,505 --> 01:49:02,508
direct drainage to Panther Creek are present, with buffer

1568
01:49:02,508 --> 01:49:05,578
measured from the top of the slope rather than the stream

1569
01:49:05,578 --> 01:49:09,248
bank. To ensure to reduce erosion risk and improve long

1570
01:49:09,248 --> 01:49:12,985
term protection of the stream corridor. The next one is

1571
01:49:12,985 --> 01:49:16,122
removal of the wildlife corridor area from the building

1572
01:49:16,122 --> 01:49:19,124
and parking envelope, which you've already done. The fourth

1573
01:49:19,124 --> 01:49:21,928
one is no grading or clearing in the floodplain, except where

1574
01:49:21,928 --> 01:49:24,330
strictly necessary for essential infrastructure with

1575
01:49:24,330 --> 01:49:28,401
clear limits on such activities. Five implementation

1576
01:49:28,401 --> 01:49:31,203
of enhanced erosion and sediment control measures

1577
01:49:31,203 --> 01:49:34,807
tailored to the Triassic basin soils, including phased

1578
01:49:34,807 --> 01:49:38,877
grading, rapid stabilization, and redundant controls. And

1579
01:49:38,877 --> 01:49:42,214
finally demonstration that the stormwater discharge will not

1580
01:49:42,214 --> 01:49:45,170
adversely impact downstream floodplain areas, including

1581
01:49:45,170 --> 01:49:49,817
analysis of future 1% flood conditions. And you're welcome

1582
01:49:50,289 --> 01:49:53,425
to respond to any of those. I do have a list of questions,

1583
01:49:53,425 --> 01:49:55,962
but I just wanted to make sure that those were on your radar

1584
01:49:55,962 --> 01:49:59,365
as ones that I don't know why I moved this way, as ones that

1585
01:49:59,365 --> 01:50:04,103
we've been provided by our volunteer. Our volunteer

1586
01:50:04,103 --> 01:50:09,503
Commission on Environmental Affairs. So I am curious about

1587
01:50:13,445 --> 01:50:16,582
the undisturbed stream buffers. Is that something y'all are

1588
01:50:16,582 --> 01:50:20,252
able to proffer? No, I mean, I think on the

1589
01:50:20,252 --> 01:50:22,388
development plan you can see that there is one stream that

1590
01:50:22,388 --> 01:50:25,991
is being crossed. Now there's a stream that goes down the

1591
01:50:25,991 --> 01:50:28,194
entire west side of the property, which we're that

1592
01:50:28,194 --> 01:50:31,630
we're not touching that. Right. But then there's a, there's

1593
01:50:31,630 --> 01:50:34,400
kind of another finger of a stream on the development plan

1594
01:50:34,400 --> 01:50:39,339
that comes up on the I'm going to say southeast side. That

1595
01:50:39,339 --> 01:50:44,410
does have a stream crossing that's kind of roughly south of

1596
01:50:44,410 --> 01:50:49,281
the existing cell tower of that area. So, you know, I would

1597
01:50:49,281 --> 01:50:53,286
just say, no, we couldn't make a commitment to having

1598
01:50:53,286 --> 01:50:56,355
undisturbed stream buffers because I know that there's

1599
01:50:56,355 --> 01:50:58,824
already planned disturbance in some of that area for the

1600
01:50:58,824 --> 01:51:00,824
stream crossing. Okay.

1601
01:51:02,161 --> 01:51:07,561
The open space commitment, I'm assuming, already includes both

1602
01:51:07,853 --> 01:51:12,391
the wildlife corridor and the stream buffer. Is that correct?

1603
01:51:12,391 --> 01:51:15,594
You're talking about the amount. I believe those would

1604
01:51:15,594 --> 01:51:20,198
be calculated in that figure. Yeah, I'm getting some nods.

1605
01:51:20,198 --> 01:51:23,803
Because it's a 20% commitment, but that's going to include

1606
01:51:23,803 --> 01:51:26,405
already those those protected areas that are.

1607
01:51:26,405 --> 01:51:28,274
I believe that is correct. Yes.

1608
01:51:28,274 --> 01:51:32,878
Are y'all able to increase to do 10% in addition to the

1609
01:51:32,878 --> 01:51:37,349
wildlife and stream buffers? I don't I wouldn't actually

1610
01:51:37,349 --> 01:51:41,487
know. I don't I don't really think that we like we're in a

1611
01:51:41,487 --> 01:51:43,756
position to answer that question, okay. Right now

1612
01:51:43,756 --> 01:51:46,625
Now because I don't know how much is in what.

1613
01:51:46,625 --> 01:51:49,625
Okay. The affordability we've been

1614
01:51:52,898 --> 01:51:56,368
seeing upwards of 10%. Are you all able to commit to 10%

1615
01:51:56,368 --> 01:51:58,904
affordability? We I don't think we'd be able

1616
01:51:58,904 --> 01:52:02,507
to commit to 10%, but we did we did talk internally about that.

1617
01:52:02,507 --> 01:52:05,377
And I think we can improve our commitment, which I believe is

1618
01:52:05,377 --> 01:52:11,977
at 5% to to 8% of the overall unit count. For this project.

1619
01:52:21,193 --> 01:52:24,262
Okay. Thank you. Those are my questions for now. Thanks.

1620
01:52:24,262 --> 01:52:28,000
Thank you. Any other colleagues questions? Council Member

1621
01:52:28,000 --> 01:52:30,269
Burris. Hello. Mr. Ghosh.

1622
01:52:30,269 --> 01:52:32,337
Hello. Just a couple of quick

1623
01:52:32,337 --> 01:52:35,141
questions, just to try to provide clarity for myself

1624
01:52:35,141 --> 01:52:38,544
about this. And so I apologize as I'm learning, if the, you

1625
01:52:38,544 --> 01:52:40,613
know, it seems kind of redundant for you, but, you

1626
01:52:40,613 --> 01:52:44,617
know, you're the expert, not me. Particularly around some of

1627
01:52:44,617 --> 01:52:47,553
the policies and looking at some of your increased profits.

1628
01:52:47,553 --> 01:52:50,555
I just had some questions, particularly around policy 39.

1629
01:52:50,555 --> 01:52:52,758
It looks like you committed to an additional 1% of tree

1630
01:52:52,758 --> 01:52:55,961
preservation, an additional 4% of open space. And I think for

1631
01:52:55,961 --> 01:52:58,497
the tree preservation was set at like, what, 20? So you'll be

1632
01:52:58,497 --> 01:53:01,367
doing 21%. And I believe what we're doing

1633
01:53:01,367 --> 01:53:04,569
is preservation. We'll make sure that. Yeah. Which is just

1634
01:53:04,569 --> 01:53:06,905
to be clear, it's also in excess of what the Udo

1635
01:53:06,905 --> 01:53:09,575
requires. So there's tree coverage. It doesn't always

1636
01:53:09,575 --> 01:53:11,376
have to be preservation. But we've committed to

1637
01:53:11,376 --> 01:53:13,112
preservation. Well I just was curious about

1638
01:53:13,112 --> 01:53:16,182
like the 1% like what's the impact of that. Like what's

1639
01:53:16,182 --> 01:53:19,251
going to be the benefit of 1%? Well, I think I think what I'm

1640
01:53:19,251 --> 01:53:23,322
saying is the really the excess is that it's preservation as

1641
01:53:23,322 --> 01:53:27,192
opposed to just simple tree coverage. It is also

1642
01:53:27,192 --> 01:53:29,795
numerically more tree coverage than is required, but it's also

1643
01:53:29,795 --> 01:53:33,199
being provided through tree preservation, which I think is

1644
01:53:33,199 --> 01:53:36,468
more valuable than than tree coverage. That is just, you

1645
01:53:36,468 --> 01:53:38,670
know, where you take the existing plants out and then

1646
01:53:38,670 --> 01:53:42,270
you replant 20%. This is 21% tree preservation.

1647
01:53:42,408 --> 01:53:45,100
So let me just rephrase this. I understand. So you think at

1648
01:53:45,100 --> 01:53:48,481
this increase, this metric, it would have a significant impact

1649
01:53:48,481 --> 01:53:51,481
then like the 1% like environmental.

1650
01:53:51,884 --> 01:53:55,888
Preservation is, is I think, more impactful than the 1%. The

1651
01:53:55,888 --> 01:53:58,957
fact that it's preservation rather than replanting for tree

1652
01:53:58,957 --> 01:54:01,493
coverage. Okay. And then can you just

1653
01:54:01,493 --> 01:54:04,429
I'll just have a question. I do appreciate you all for

1654
01:54:04,429 --> 01:54:08,967
increasing your proffer for affordable housing from 5% to

1655
01:54:08,967 --> 01:54:14,390
8%, just so we can all have a common understanding of this.

1656
01:54:14,390 --> 01:54:16,775
Tell us what this is. So does that mean that like for 80% of

1657
01:54:16,775 --> 01:54:20,779
am I that those units would be a reduced rate or like how does

1658
01:54:20,779 --> 01:54:22,781
that work out for the affordable housing piece? Like

1659
01:54:22,781 --> 01:54:24,917
are they subsidized or like what does it look like.

1660
01:54:24,917 --> 01:54:28,320
Well it's not subsidized like by any kind of like gap

1661
01:54:28,320 --> 01:54:30,722
financing or government funding or anything likikike that. Thes

1662
01:54:30,722 --> 01:54:33,525
are being provided by the developer, in this case at a

1663
01:54:33,525 --> 01:54:37,328
discounted price over what the unit next door, which would be

1664
01:54:37,328 --> 01:54:40,398
exactly the same unit, would cost. Right? So this is

1665
01:54:40,398 --> 01:54:43,735
essentially them discounting the price and the way that

1666
01:54:43,735 --> 01:54:48,941
works in this zoning case, but also just in the Durham studio

1667
01:54:48,941 --> 01:54:54,746
and and through. Whatever the department is now called that

1668
01:54:54,746 --> 01:54:58,951
that implements those things. They would record a covenant

1669
01:54:58,951 --> 01:55:01,686
against property that would that it's an affordability

1670
01:55:01,686 --> 01:55:07,559
covenant that says that these houses, 8% of them are have an

1671
01:55:07,559 --> 01:55:10,950
affordability covenant on them, and so that they have to be

1672
01:55:10,950 --> 01:55:13,966
sold in over the next 30 years, they can only be sold to

1673
01:55:13,966 --> 01:55:19,304
families qualifying at the 80% Ami level, which, you know,

1674
01:55:19,304 --> 01:55:21,507
over the course of 30 years. That number is obviously going

1675
01:55:21,507 --> 01:55:25,310
to change. But every year it's still going for 30 years. It'll

1676
01:55:25,310 --> 01:55:28,313
be still at the 80% Ami level regardless of who's selling it.

1677
01:55:28,313 --> 01:55:31,490
Right. So like the developer is going to do it the first time,

1678
01:55:31,490 --> 01:55:34,119
but because there would be a recorded covenant against the

1679
01:55:34,119 --> 01:55:38,323
the property, it would it would still carry through to the next

1680
01:55:38,323 --> 01:55:41,526
conveyance of that land. That's that's just how it would work.

1681
01:55:41,526 --> 01:55:44,463
So the I guess I would say the initial I'm going to call it a

1682
01:55:44,463 --> 01:55:47,332
haircut comes at the developer's expense. Right

1683
01:55:47,332 --> 01:55:49,468
after that, though, it's the it's the property owner who

1684
01:55:49,468 --> 01:55:51,737
bought the house at a discounted rate, would also

1685
01:55:51,737 --> 01:55:53,672
have to sell the house at a discounted rate over the next

1686
01:55:53,672 --> 01:55:55,407
30 years. Okay, that's helpful to

1687
01:55:55,407 --> 01:55:58,277
understand. And then I had another question about the

1688
01:55:58,277 --> 01:56:02,480
policy regards to accessibility. So it looks like

1689
01:56:02,480 --> 01:56:05,217
there that one wasn't consistent. So does that mean

1690
01:56:05,217 --> 01:56:07,219
you won't be in. It doesn't really necessarily give us

1691
01:56:07,219 --> 01:56:10,289
light to the you know, like making sure that we have a

1692
01:56:10,289 --> 01:56:13,492
mixed use of ages. So does that mean that these units will not

1693
01:56:13,492 --> 01:56:16,562
have and they will not have like access at grade, or will

1694
01:56:16,562 --> 01:56:19,698
they offer any first floor bedroom options?

1695
01:56:19,698 --> 01:56:24,169
Yeah. So we we're that's why we hadn't made that commitment

1696
01:56:24,169 --> 01:56:26,838
because we don't know specifically that we will be we

1697
01:56:26,838 --> 01:56:30,241
will be able to do that. And I think part of the issue here is

1698
01:56:30,241 --> 01:56:32,243
some of the topography challenges, which makes it

1699
01:56:32,243 --> 01:56:35,247
difficult to say for certain that there will be at grade

1700
01:56:35,247 --> 01:56:38,450
entrances, you know, when you have a flat piece of property,

1701
01:56:38,450 --> 01:56:40,852
you can kind of build right on top of that and have an at

1702
01:56:40,852 --> 01:56:43,655
grade entrance. But when you have to make up for grade and

1703
01:56:43,655 --> 01:56:45,924
stuff like that, that's when you start to get steps to the

1704
01:56:45,924 --> 01:56:49,461
front door or steps from the garage into the unit, whatever

1705
01:56:49,461 --> 01:56:53,131
the case may be, that's because of the great challenges with

1706
01:56:53,131 --> 01:56:57,536
with any given floor plan. And then with respect to whether

1707
01:56:57,536 --> 01:57:02,674
there will be any certain number of units that will have.

1708
01:57:02,674 --> 01:57:07,612
First floor living. The majority of these units. So I

1709
01:57:07,612 --> 01:57:11,820
believe it's 300 units total. Right. And the minimum of those

1710
01:57:11,820 --> 01:57:13,903
would be a minimum of 200 of those would be townhomes.

1711
01:57:13,903 --> 01:57:16,240
Townhome units are generally I mean they're going to be

1712
01:57:16,240 --> 01:57:20,244
multi-story units. Right. And but the way those generally are

1713
01:57:20,244 --> 01:57:23,714
going to lay out or, or they're probably not going to have all

1714
01:57:23,714 --> 01:57:26,717
of the items necessary for first floor living. There may

1715
01:57:26,717 --> 01:57:29,519
be a bedroom, right? But there probably won't be. Also be

1716
01:57:29,519 --> 01:57:31,788
kitchen and laundry and bathroom, you know, on that

1717
01:57:31,788 --> 01:57:34,124
first floor. That's why we haven't made that commitment.

1718
01:57:34,124 --> 01:57:36,593
But I think so. To answer your question, I think you're right.

1719
01:57:36,593 --> 01:57:38,996
We I don't know that we're in a place where we can make a

1720
01:57:38,996 --> 01:57:43,800
commitment, where we will meet that policy. But I can't say

1721
01:57:43,800 --> 01:57:45,869
for certain that there won't be units with first floor

1722
01:57:45,869 --> 01:57:48,738
bedrooms. It's just that we, you know, we're not comfortable

1723
01:57:48,738 --> 01:57:51,541
enough to make a commitment to describe what that might look

1724
01:57:51,541 --> 01:57:54,544
like on this project today. Okay. Because I just had, like,

1725
01:57:54,544 --> 01:57:56,146
just thinking about consistency. I see that there's

1726
01:57:56,146 --> 01:57:58,549
a commitment to making sure that the sidewalks are Ada

1727
01:57:58,549 --> 01:58:00,617
accessible. And so I'm like, okay, if you're going to make

1728
01:58:00,617 --> 01:58:02,753
sure the sidewalks have those accommodations, it would kind

1729
01:58:02,753 --> 01:58:05,489
of make sense to ensure the units are also accessible as

1730
01:58:05,489 --> 01:58:07,900
well. So but thank you so much for your time.

1731
01:58:07,900 --> 01:58:11,290
Thank you. Any other colleagues out here?

1732
01:58:16,566 --> 01:58:20,571
Council Member Baker. Thank you. Thanks for being

1733
01:58:20,571 --> 01:58:27,171
here, Mr. Ghosh. First of all, our our folks cold. I'm

1734
01:58:27,177 --> 01:58:29,646
literally looking at people shivering. There's a young lady

1735
01:58:29,646 --> 01:58:34,584
on the front row with a blanket. Not cold. Okay. Very

1736
01:58:34,584 --> 01:58:36,587
comfortable. All right. There's a mix of opinions out there.

1737
01:58:36,587 --> 01:58:42,587
I'm not gonna make this controversial. So I don't have

1738
01:58:48,465 --> 01:58:53,865
any questions. Actually, I, on this Earth Day. Borrowing,

1739
01:58:56,272 --> 01:59:00,944
barring any exceptional master plan, communities, I in good

1740
01:59:00,944 --> 01:59:05,744
conscience can't continue to support auto centric sprawl,

1741
01:59:08,151 --> 01:59:12,422
car dependent development on the outskirts of our city in in

1742
01:59:12,422 --> 01:59:16,359
this kind of this kind of scale and the rapid development and

1743
01:59:16,359 --> 01:59:20,497
growth that we're seeing on the outskirts, particularly in, in

1744
01:59:20,497 --> 01:59:26,569
Far East Durham, driven out there many times. I don't know

1745
01:59:26,569 --> 01:59:30,707
how you get out there any other way, and I'm not sure that

1746
01:59:30,707 --> 01:59:34,644
we'll leave an East Durham that will be reachable any other

1747
01:59:34,644 --> 01:59:39,490
way, the way that it is being approved for growth piece by

1748
01:59:39,490 --> 01:59:45,649
piece and little by little, you know, we're watching around the

1749
01:59:46,122 --> 01:59:50,327
world. It's impossible to miss the turmoil, the global

1750
01:59:50,327 --> 01:59:54,664
turmoil, and it feels like our entire society is a smash and

1751
01:59:54,664 --> 01:59:59,200
grab by the rich. And we're we're seeing global turmoil

1752
01:59:59,200 --> 02:00:05,200
around competition over fossil fuels and oil. And in a

1753
02:00:06,143 --> 02:00:09,120
progressive community, we need to do everything that we

1754
02:00:09,120 --> 02:00:12,820
possibly can to push back against that and fight against

1755
02:00:12,820 --> 02:00:18,682
that, not to just kind of openly continue to approve very

1756
02:00:19,155 --> 02:00:23,426
large cases. 80 acres is a very large case. Again, little by

1757
02:00:23,426 --> 02:00:26,630
little with, I think, legitimate questions and

1758
02:00:26,630 --> 02:00:30,230
increasingly legitimate questions around service and

1759
02:00:30,500 --> 02:00:36,440
infrastructure. I don't know if many of you follow a towns a

1760
02:00:36,440 --> 02:00:41,445
Chuck Chuck Marone who started strong towns does does a lot of

1761
02:00:41,445 --> 02:00:45,848
talks, a lot about sprawl and the way that many cities are

1762
02:00:45,848 --> 02:00:50,587
growing. He calls it a Ponzi scheme. He was actually in

1763
02:00:50,587 --> 02:00:54,658
Durham not not too long ago. Speaking, speaking here to the

1764
02:00:54,658 --> 02:00:58,595
community. He's got an article, he says, and I want to quote

1765
02:00:58,595 --> 02:01:02,466
this sprawl is a quote style of development. It works extremely

1766
02:01:02,466 --> 02:01:06,200
well for a specific type of large scale private developer.

1767
02:01:06,200 --> 02:01:09,473
They're masters of the assembly line approach, secure, cheap

1768
02:01:09,473 --> 02:01:12,141
land on the fringe, install infrastructure and build tract

1769
02:01:12,141 --> 02:01:15,278
housing as quickly as possible. At this scale, the profits are

1770
02:01:15,278 --> 02:01:19,749
enormous and the risks are low. He goes on to say. But while

1771
02:01:19,749 --> 02:01:22,686
private sector gets the cash, local governments get the bill.

1772
02:01:22,686 --> 02:01:25,155
Sprawling developments create long term infrastructure

1773
02:01:25,155 --> 02:01:28,892
liabilities. Roads, water lines, sewer systems, schools,

1774
02:01:28,892 --> 02:01:32,629
fire, EMS, et cetera that far exceed the revenue they

1775
02:01:32,629 --> 02:01:34,764
generate. Local governments, which are really just

1776
02:01:34,764 --> 02:01:37,834
collections of us acting together, are left trying to

1777
02:01:37,834 --> 02:01:40,360
maintain and operate systems that are fundamentally

1778
02:01:40,360 --> 02:01:44,441
unaffordable. And I think every time over the past many years

1779
02:01:44,441 --> 02:01:48,978
that these large scale cases have have come before council,

1780
02:01:48,978 --> 02:01:52,716
not only is that approval approving land for this kind of

1781
02:01:52,716 --> 02:01:55,318
development, it's also sending a message that this is okay,

1782
02:01:55,318 --> 02:01:59,122
that we can continue growing this way and that you should,

1783
02:01:59,122 --> 02:02:02,580
as a large scale landowner or a large scale developer, some

1784
02:02:02,580 --> 02:02:03,794
largest home builders in the country who are working in

1785
02:02:03,794 --> 02:02:06,663
Durham should continue doing this and doing what you're

1786
02:02:06,663 --> 02:02:11,334
doing. I've sat down with Mongo Holmes a couple years ago and I

1787
02:02:11,334 --> 02:02:14,938
asked, why don't you do great master plan communities that

1788
02:02:14,938 --> 02:02:18,875
are preserving more open space, maybe a little more dense in

1789
02:02:18,875 --> 02:02:22,110
certain areas, providing mix of uses and civic spaces. And they

1790
02:02:22,110 --> 02:02:25,810
said, because we know how to make money the way that that we

1791
02:02:25,810 --> 02:02:28,618
build now, and because you don't make us and that will

1792
02:02:28,618 --> 02:02:32,288
continue, that will continue as long as as we we allow it to

1793
02:02:32,288 --> 02:02:35,692
continue. So I appreciate the Planning Commission's

1794
02:02:35,692 --> 02:02:41,920
recommendation. I sat on the Planning Commission and was

1795
02:02:41,564 --> 02:02:44,368
very frustrated whenever City Council didn't didn't go along

1796
02:02:44,368 --> 02:02:49,573
with the Planning Commission. Now here I am, but I agree with

1797
02:02:49,573 --> 02:02:52,775
the comments of Commissioner Wolk from the Planning

1798
02:02:52,775 --> 02:02:55,979
Commission. I think that Commissioner Wolk hit the nail

1799
02:02:55,979 --> 02:02:59,182
on the head with some of these comments. You know, we had

1800
02:02:59,182 --> 02:03:06,322
another committee of a board weigh in and also I just I

1801
02:03:06,322 --> 02:03:09,793
think that this is sending a message. I think that it's

1802
02:03:09,793 --> 02:03:13,263
continuing to do something that we know is part of a broken

1803
02:03:13,263 --> 02:03:16,533
system. We shouldn't we shouldn't blame individuals for

1804
02:03:16,533 --> 02:03:21,871
being dependent upon cars for for our auto dependency. It's a

1805
02:03:21,871 --> 02:03:25,493
systemic failure. And and we are part of the system. And so

1806
02:03:25,493 --> 02:03:29,230
I won't be supporting this one. And I'll just say now I won't

1807
02:03:29,230 --> 02:03:33,430
be supporting the other cases this evening.

1808
02:03:35,350 --> 02:03:39,707
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. First is

1809
02:03:39,707 --> 02:03:41,776
a question for staff. And this relates to a couple of cases

1810
02:03:41,776 --> 02:03:45,379
that we're seeing this evening in regards to applicant

1811
02:03:45,379 --> 02:03:47,779
commitments around infrastructure, addressing

1812
02:03:49,490 --> 02:03:53,454
traffic, issues of concern. And I guess my question is just

1813
02:03:53,454 --> 02:03:57,570
helping me understand this. So in this particular case, the

1814
02:03:57,570 --> 02:03:59,460
applicant has talked about a $2 million commitment to

1815
02:03:59,460 --> 02:04:04,732
infrastructure to to address traffic issues in this area. So

1816
02:04:04,732 --> 02:04:08,535
how much does this address the current concerns versus just

1817
02:04:08,535 --> 02:04:12,740
the incremental need from the additional units that would go

1818
02:04:12,740 --> 02:04:15,943
in? And if this investment wasn't made through this

1819
02:04:15,943 --> 02:04:20,280
development, when might the city have this in the plan to

1820
02:04:20,280 --> 02:04:26,880
make the sort of investment? Earlene Thomas So the plan and

1821
02:04:27,200 --> 02:04:32,420
the traffic study does address both existing and future

1822
02:04:32,960 --> 02:04:36,163
impacts from this development. So some of the improvements

1823
02:04:36,163 --> 02:04:40,500
that they are making are going to address existing issues that

1824
02:04:40,500 --> 02:04:43,838
that are happening today. If these improvements aren't made

1825
02:04:43,838 --> 02:04:48,776
by this developer, they will likely not be funded anytime in

1826
02:04:48,776 --> 02:04:53,576
the foreseeable future as projects are prioritized and

1827
02:04:53,647 --> 02:04:57,718
funded, you know, through NCDOT prioritization process. And

1828
02:04:57,718 --> 02:05:02,590
there are limited dollars to go around and address all of the

1829
02:05:02,590 --> 02:05:07,327
future needs. All right. Thank you. Next, a

1830
02:05:07,327 --> 02:05:13,927
couple of questions for the applicant. Mr. Ghosh. So I want

1831
02:05:17,938 --> 02:05:23,277
to come back to a couple of the other requests from the

1832
02:05:23,277 --> 02:05:26,213
Environmental Affairs Board, as well as from residents to

1833
02:05:26,213 --> 02:05:30,217
preserve rail, Durham and others. I would like to ask if

1834
02:05:30,217 --> 02:05:32,619
this is a project where you could commit to no variances

1835
02:05:32,619 --> 02:05:35,155
and no disturbances in the buffer, and what that would

1836
02:05:35,155 --> 02:05:39,693
look like for this project. Well, I think I mentioned

1837
02:05:39,693 --> 02:05:42,696
already, I, I know for a fact we can't make a commitment to

1838
02:05:42,696 --> 02:05:45,832
no disturbances in the buffer. We've already got a plan stream

1839
02:05:45,832 --> 02:05:47,835
crossing. So that is. Because of the one disturbance

1840
02:05:47,835 --> 02:05:49,769
you have. Okay. Yeah. And so we're going

1841
02:05:49,769 --> 02:05:53,907
to have to let me look over here. That requires one of

1842
02:05:53,907 --> 02:05:57,111
those permits. No no practical alternative. Yeah. So like I

1843
02:05:57,111 --> 02:06:00,313
know that we have to get one of those. That's not a variance

1844
02:06:00,313 --> 02:06:05,986
per se. I don't really even know if from a zoning

1845
02:06:05,986 --> 02:06:09,560
standpoint, someone can make a commitment to no variance. I

1846
02:06:09,560 --> 02:06:13,794
mean, a variance is something specified in the UDL. And I'm

1847
02:06:13,794 --> 02:06:16,630
looking in that direction because I don't I just don't

1848
02:06:16,630 --> 02:06:21,401
know. But, you know, I guess I would say the specific

1849
02:06:21,401 --> 02:06:24,738
commitment that was asked for I'm I we could not make that

1850
02:06:24,738 --> 02:06:27,540
commitment because I know that we're going to have impacts to

1851
02:06:27,540 --> 02:06:30,477
stream to riparian buffers, and we're going to need one of

1852
02:06:30,477 --> 02:06:37,551
those in PA to do it. So it is possible that an

1853
02:06:37,551 --> 02:06:43,691
applicant can proffer to not seek variances or to not seek

1854
02:06:43,691 --> 02:06:47,428
an MPA for any type of intrusion. You know, that is a

1855
02:06:47,428 --> 02:06:50,960
proffer can be anything going above and beyond a normal

1856
02:06:50,960 --> 02:06:52,960
process. Well, yeah.

1857
02:06:52,699 --> 02:06:56,570
All right. So the the no disturbances is impossible.

1858
02:06:56,570 --> 02:07:03,510
What about the no variances. I mean I don't know I'll have

1859
02:07:03,510 --> 02:07:07,915
to I'll have to get with my client on whether they are

1860
02:07:07,915 --> 02:07:10,651
comfortable doing that. I mean no one seeks the development

1861
02:07:10,651 --> 02:07:14,254
for the purpose of getting a variance. Later a variance

1862
02:07:14,254 --> 02:07:16,390
comes up. I mean, it's a high bar at the Board of Adjustment

1863
02:07:16,390 --> 02:07:20,126
to get a variance. Yeah. And I want to acknowledge

1864
02:07:20,126 --> 02:07:23,620
and thank in this process, the feedback we're getting from the

1865
02:07:23,620 --> 02:07:25,532
EAB and other volunteer boards, planning Commission B Pac, I

1866
02:07:25,532 --> 02:07:28,869
look forward to actually having these requests be part of our

1867
02:07:28,869 --> 02:07:32,720
application packet, which gives us time to further evaluate and

1868
02:07:32,720 --> 02:07:35,409
have these discussions as well. But I do think they're really

1869
02:07:35,409 --> 02:07:41,415
important points to to raise. So I just want to say I

1870
02:07:41,415 --> 02:07:44,885
appreciate, you know, aspects of this proposal that exceed

1871
02:07:44,885 --> 02:07:48,155
the comp plan. You know, around open space, you know, and that

1872
02:07:48,155 --> 02:07:52,260
tree preservation, which is what, you know, I think the

1873
02:07:52,260 --> 02:07:54,361
kind of thing that we we look for when evaluating these sorts

1874
02:07:54,361 --> 02:07:58,231
of cases, as well as additional commitments around affordable

1875
02:07:58,231 --> 02:08:02,236
housing, the the stormwater control measures, the increased

1876
02:08:02,236 --> 02:08:04,705
DPS contribution and the commitment to protect the most

1877
02:08:04,705 --> 02:08:07,974
environmentally sensitive areas and build Panther Creek. I

1878
02:08:07,974 --> 02:08:10,177
think some of these reflected the strong Planning Commission

1879
02:08:10,177 --> 02:08:12,178
recommendation, and also some have addressed the

1880
02:08:12,178 --> 02:08:15,516
Environmental Affairs Board recommendations. At the same

1881
02:08:15,516 --> 02:08:18,184
time, I'm cognizant of the remaining concerns that have

1882
02:08:18,184 --> 02:08:20,854
been raised by fire by residents and advocates and

1883
02:08:20,854 --> 02:08:26,793
volunteer boards. I would like to discuss a JCC, PC, how we

1884
02:08:26,793 --> 02:08:29,863
can better account for EMS along with the county, because

1885
02:08:29,863 --> 02:08:32,660
I feel like that keeps coming up and it's something we

1886
02:08:32,660 --> 02:08:35,535
haven't quite been able to wrap our heads around. I think some

1887
02:08:35,535 --> 02:08:38,472
of the other infrastructure questions are have been easier

1888
02:08:38,472 --> 02:08:42,876
because they fall more within the city's control and and but

1889
02:08:42,876 --> 02:08:46,212
this this EMS one still seems to be a sticking point for for

1890
02:08:46,212 --> 02:08:52,212
us in a really critically important one. You know, I

1891
02:08:54,888 --> 02:08:56,690
think the last thing is that, you know, on the affordable

1892
02:08:56,690 --> 02:08:59,827
housing piece, I do appreciate that that proffers I sort of

1893
02:08:59,827 --> 02:09:04,980
way the opportunities here. I mean, you know, for the city to

1894
02:09:04,980 --> 02:09:06,700
provide all of the housing that we need would be an expensive

1895
02:09:06,700 --> 02:09:09,636
proposition that would fall heavily on our taxpayers. And

1896
02:09:09,636 --> 02:09:13,574
so I think that including the improvements for traffic, which

1897
02:09:13,574 --> 02:09:17,430
otherwise would not happen, you know, are something that I also

1898
02:09:17,430 --> 02:09:20,580
don't take lightly in weighing these cases when considering

1899
02:09:20,580 --> 02:09:24,251
all the trade offs that are in place and ultimately where we

1900
02:09:24,251 --> 02:09:28,455
see any housing go has an impact on the neighbors and

1901
02:09:28,455 --> 02:09:33,260
residents who live nearby, you know, we have to consider, you

1902
02:09:33,260 --> 02:09:37,130
know, the, the ultimately the the pressures, the displacement,

1903
02:09:37,130 --> 02:09:40,950
pressures that it puts in other parts of our city when we

1904
02:09:40,950 --> 02:09:45,354
choose to not welcome those homes near where we live. And

1905
02:09:45,354 --> 02:09:47,223
so there's a push and pull where we're connected across

1906
02:09:47,223 --> 02:09:49,959
the city in these decisions that we make. And everyone has

1907
02:09:49,959 --> 02:09:54,296
a right to, you know, to advocate for what they feel is

1908
02:09:54,296 --> 02:09:57,433
best for what they live. And we have to think about, you know,

1909
02:09:57,433 --> 02:10:00,169
what is going to work for residents across the city and

1910
02:10:00,169 --> 02:10:02,705
particularly, you know, concern for residents who face that

1911
02:10:02,705 --> 02:10:06,242
pressure. In some of our more gentrifying neighborhoods,

1912
02:10:06,242 --> 02:10:08,511
which is something the weigh against concerns about, you

1913
02:10:08,511 --> 02:10:11,447
know, conversion of some of our more rural areas. And those are

1914
02:10:11,447 --> 02:10:14,984
real concerns and trade offs. We have to weigh, you know,

1915
02:10:14,984 --> 02:10:19,522
including a desire for all development to be along transit

1916
02:10:19,522 --> 02:10:22,258
in the future. And, you know, every development to be next to

1917
02:10:22,258 --> 02:10:26,262
a park. And that is the the dream that I would like to see

1918
02:10:26,262 --> 02:10:29,131
us fulfill. I also think about the investment required in

1919
02:10:29,131 --> 02:10:31,935
order to make that a reality. And the opportunity we have in

1920
02:10:31,935 --> 02:10:36,672
these limited cases to look for benefits for the community. So

1921
02:10:36,672 --> 02:10:40,872
thank you. Council Member Rist thank you,

1922
02:10:41,477 --> 02:10:43,413
Mr. Mayor. I do have one question. Yeah, I appreciate

1923
02:10:43,413 --> 02:10:46,349
the comments from my colleagues. Also for the

1924
02:10:46,349 --> 02:10:50,887
testimony from residents. I had one question I am I'm actually,

1925
02:10:50,887 --> 02:10:54,156
I think Council Member Kopac is now the official back member,

1926
02:10:54,156 --> 02:10:55,892
but I'm an alternate still. So I want to ask you about the

1927
02:10:55,892 --> 02:10:57,693
back comments, because there were a couple there that I

1928
02:10:57,693 --> 02:11:00,896
think there wasn't a response to, at least in our packet. So

1929
02:11:00,896 --> 02:11:03,566
there was a request from back about building a sidewalk

1930
02:11:03,566 --> 02:11:07,350
network within the development. And again, I think my notes

1931
02:11:07,350 --> 02:11:09,372
show that there was no response. I wonder if you

1932
02:11:09,372 --> 02:11:11,574
consider that. So. I don't know if I didn't

1933
02:11:11,574 --> 02:11:15,378
respond. My understanding is that the road design

1934
02:11:15,378 --> 02:11:18,848
requirements do require sidewalk anyway, so you can't

1935
02:11:18,848 --> 02:11:20,716
make the commitment because it's already required.

1936
02:11:20,716 --> 02:11:22,510
So it's required that would and.

1937
02:11:22,510 --> 02:11:23,852
That would. That's my understanding that that

1938
02:11:23,852 --> 02:11:26,252
interior residue require sidewalks.

1939
02:11:27,856 --> 02:11:35,656
Or staff. Just if you all could confirm that on the staff side.

1940
02:11:35,732 --> 02:11:37,599
Correct. That would be required by ordinance.

1941
02:11:37,599 --> 02:11:40,300
Okay. Thank you for that. Yeah. Okay. The second comment from

1942
02:11:40,300 --> 02:11:43,939
back was about around the proposed signal locations,

1943
02:11:43,939 --> 02:11:47,209
uplift intersections with curbing and wheelchair ramps to

1944
02:11:47,209 --> 02:11:49,812
accommodate potential future multi the potential future of

1945
02:11:49,812 --> 02:11:54,612
multi-use path. I'm. I'm sorry I'm not. Hold

1946
02:11:57,753 --> 02:12:03,920
on. I have those back comments. Again that's at the proposed

1947
02:12:03,920 --> 02:12:07,496
signal locations. Raise the intersection with curbing and

1948
02:12:07,496 --> 02:12:12,168
wheelchair ramps. Sorry one second I know they're

1949
02:12:12,168 --> 02:12:14,168
in. This.

1950
02:12:18,441 --> 02:12:22,641
Okay. Which one are you referring to?

1951
02:12:24,847 --> 02:12:27,116
I think it's the. Oh, at the intersections to

1952
02:12:27,116 --> 02:12:29,385
better serve wheelchair users and ensure the shortest

1953
02:12:29,385 --> 02:12:31,654
crossing distance by crosswalks.

1954
02:12:31,654 --> 02:12:34,724
And that's kind of the potential future multi-use

1955
02:12:34,724 --> 02:12:39,524
path, right? Yes. So the. Yeah, that's not

1956
02:12:51,874 --> 02:12:54,944
one that I think we'd be comfortable making a commitment

1957
02:12:54,944 --> 02:12:58,815
to. That's a there's a signalized intersection. That

1958
02:12:58,815 --> 02:13:01,617
is I guess it's technically off site. I mean it's at the corner

1959
02:13:01,617 --> 02:13:08,557
of Gearan Burton. So we don't I mean, the right of way. I don't

1960
02:13:08,557 --> 02:13:10,626
know that there's sufficient right of way to accommodate

1961
02:13:10,626 --> 02:13:13,695
this if there is. And I believe that's, generally speaking, how

1962
02:13:13,695 --> 02:13:17,366
the design would be required to go is, is that you would have

1963
02:13:17,366 --> 02:13:20,836
the sidewalk there with the with the curb. Yeah. With the

1964
02:13:20,836 --> 02:13:23,906
ramp. That's how those intersections I believe they're

1965
02:13:23,906 --> 02:13:26,642
designed. But whether it's going to be an MUP, I don't

1966
02:13:26,642 --> 02:13:30,779
know that we can make that type of commitment just because if I

1967
02:13:30,779 --> 02:13:33,916
remember correctly, the corner of the property, I'm sorry that

1968
02:13:33,916 --> 02:13:37,386
that intersection is actually not part like we don't have the

1969
02:13:37,386 --> 02:13:39,522
ability to expand right of way there by dedicating it

1970
02:13:39,522 --> 02:13:41,560
ourselves, because we don't have the frontage.

1971
02:13:41,560 --> 02:13:43,259
Right there. But if you if the right of way is available, if

1972
02:13:43,259 --> 02:13:45,394
you can actually get access, that would something you would

1973
02:13:45,394 --> 02:13:47,997
intend to do. I don't even know that intent

1974
02:13:47,997 --> 02:13:51,134
is part of it, that that is what's required by design is to

1975
02:13:51,134 --> 02:13:57,134
have those wheelchair ramps and the, you know, the little

1976
02:13:57,339 --> 02:14:00,410
yellow, with the dots in them. Okay. Thank you. Then the last

1977
02:14:00,410 --> 02:14:05,614
one was about the inclusion. Oh right. Of the of the multi-use

1978
02:14:05,614 --> 02:14:08,551
path along the proposed length of the roadway. Improvements.

1979
02:14:08,551 --> 02:14:12,880
Want to make sure that's I think there was some confusion

1980
02:14:12,880 --> 02:14:13,823
about that. Whether those again the multi-use path would

1981
02:14:13,823 --> 02:14:17,293
continue along the the roadway improvements and again.

1982
02:14:17,293 --> 02:14:21,564
Well again that that so along our frontage we would do the

1983
02:14:21,564 --> 02:14:23,366
the multi-use path. Right. That includes where the

1984
02:14:23,366 --> 02:14:25,301
improvements are. Well yeah. But beyond that's

1985
02:14:25,301 --> 02:14:26,835
what I'm saying. Like that's where the right of way is

1986
02:14:26,835 --> 02:14:31,240
limited. We can't just we wouldn't be comfortable making

1987
02:14:31,240 --> 02:14:35,711
a commitment to have offsite larger right of way than would

1988
02:14:35,711 --> 02:14:38,848
be required to fit that ten foot wide multi-use path,

1989
02:14:38,848 --> 02:14:40,983
because we just don't have control of that right of way.

1990
02:14:40,983 --> 02:14:42,985
Like we can't dedicate the right of way for it, but where

1991
02:14:42,985 --> 02:14:46,122
we can dedicate right of way. Yeah, we're doing it in the ten

1992
02:14:46,122 --> 02:14:48,124
foot wide multi-use path. That is what we're doing.

1993
02:14:48,124 --> 02:14:50,660
And then where you can't get where you can't commit to the

1994
02:14:50,660 --> 02:14:55,331
right of way. What's the what's the plan there?

1995
02:14:55,331 --> 02:14:57,199
Like where the road improvements are going? Yeah, I

1996
02:14:57,199 --> 02:15:02,939
mean, it's I think it's going to be limited by whatever right

1997
02:15:02,939 --> 02:15:07,142
of way. Is there. And that and what, generally speaking, with

1998
02:15:07,142 --> 02:15:09,212
Ddot is going to allow it within that right of way. Which

1999
02:15:09,212 --> 02:15:10,947
isn't to say they wouldn't allow it, but I don't know that

2000
02:15:10,947 --> 02:15:12,748
we that it fits or it doesn't. We haven't designed.

2001
02:15:12,748 --> 02:15:15,818
You can't. commit to that. But yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah.

2002
02:15:15,818 --> 02:15:20,220
So I you know this is we say that all the time. These cases

2003
02:15:20,220 --> 02:15:23,626
are all complicated right. There's no perfect case here. I

2004
02:15:23,626 --> 02:15:27,300
think for me, given the I think we've we've had a lot of

2005
02:15:27,300 --> 02:15:31,233
discussion here. You've been been generous with the

2006
02:15:31,233 --> 02:15:33,102
aggressive proffer or the additional proffer on

2007
02:15:33,102 --> 02:15:36,973
affordable housing. Additional funds for DPS, the roadway

2008
02:15:36,973 --> 02:15:40,509
improvements, the profit for the hundred year storm building

2009
02:15:40,509 --> 02:15:46,194
the the building, the greenway on site, as well as the

2010
02:15:46,194 --> 02:15:48,463
restricted development in the wildlife corridor. So to me

2011
02:15:48,463 --> 02:15:51,866
this is a you know, this is a a site that's largely mixed use

2012
02:15:51,866 --> 02:15:54,802
residential by the plan we've developed and approved as a

2013
02:15:54,802 --> 02:15:58,806
community. So this is within the urban growth boundary. I

2014
02:15:58,806 --> 02:16:02,877
think you've done a lot to really sort of, sort of flexes

2015
02:16:02,877 --> 02:16:05,613
to the the request of the council, I think by and large,

2016
02:16:05,613 --> 02:16:07,810
and I think with the, with the Planning Commission

2017
02:16:07,810 --> 02:16:09,484
recommendation 8 to 2 to approve this, I think this is a

2018
02:16:09,484 --> 02:16:11,819
pretty good case. So on balance, I think this crosses

2019
02:16:11,819 --> 02:16:14,222
my threshold and I will be supportive of this case. Thank

2020
02:16:14,222 --> 02:16:18,422
you. Thank you. Thank you. Councilmember Cook.

2021
02:16:19,426 --> 02:16:25,166
Oh no. You went first right? Yeah. Mayor. President. All

2022
02:16:25,166 --> 02:16:32,305
right. I. I've been on council for a few years now, and I

2023
02:16:32,305 --> 02:16:36,644
still sort of still sort of get caught up in this, this 30 year

2024
02:16:36,644 --> 02:16:40,581
affordable housing thing, you know, just if you buy it at an

2025
02:16:40,581 --> 02:16:44,451
affordable rate and you have to sell it at an affordable rate,

2026
02:16:44,451 --> 02:16:47,655
and I'm still, after all these years, years, still trying to

2027
02:16:47,655 --> 02:16:53,461
find a balance of not keeping someone in from being able to

2028
02:16:53,461 --> 02:16:57,998
grow their wealth, but also not allowing predatory purchasing

2029
02:16:57,998 --> 02:17:02,403
where someone buys at it and flips it. Because obviously we

2030
02:17:02,403 --> 02:17:05,139
have corporations that are buying housing and outbidding

2031
02:17:05,139 --> 02:17:09,676
individuals. Have you all explored other more creative

2032
02:17:09,676 --> 02:17:15,676
options where we can have for sale affordable options, but

2033
02:17:17,684 --> 02:17:22,289
not, you know, chop them in for 30 years?

2034
02:17:22,289 --> 02:17:25,292
Well. I will just say this from my

2035
02:17:25,292 --> 02:17:30,230
client. They sell it one time, right? And so when they commit

2036
02:17:30,230 --> 02:17:33,834
to affordable housing, they are essentially, like I said

2037
02:17:33,834 --> 02:17:37,505
earlier, taking a haircut on that, on that unit, on that

2038
02:17:37,505 --> 02:17:40,775
affordable unit, there's no governmental subsidy or

2039
02:17:40,775 --> 02:17:43,377
anything like that. They're just discounting the price on

2040
02:17:43,377 --> 02:17:49,249
the unit. What I mean, for them, my client, what it sells

2041
02:17:49,249 --> 02:17:52,786
for by the person they sold it to, has no bearing on, you

2042
02:17:52,786 --> 02:17:55,789
know, their business model. Right? They've already sold it

2043
02:17:55,789 --> 02:18:01,189
one time. The 30 year commitment is what is standard

2044
02:18:02,620 --> 02:18:05,465
and defined in the Udo, which is why we had that commitment

2045
02:18:05,465 --> 02:18:08,469
there. So I can say like we did not explore other options

2046
02:18:08,469 --> 02:18:12,139
because we were kind of taking the term affordable housing to

2047
02:18:12,139 --> 02:18:15,208
mean exactly what it says in the Udo and seeing how much of

2048
02:18:15,208 --> 02:18:17,945
that we could provide in this development. But, I mean, I

2049
02:18:17,945 --> 02:18:22,682
understand what your point is, but, you know, I don't I don't

2050
02:18:22,682 --> 02:18:25,180
know exactly what you have in mind, but if you were saying,

2051
02:18:25,180 --> 02:18:28,355
could the restriction be five years instead of 30 years, I'm

2052
02:18:28,355 --> 02:18:30,624
sure my client would be open to that, because actually it

2053
02:18:30,624 --> 02:18:33,361
doesn't make a difference to them. Right? Because they're

2054
02:18:33,361 --> 02:18:36,897
selling it the one time. Got it, got it. And I'm not

2055
02:18:36,897 --> 02:18:41,168
prepared to make make let that be some determining factor

2056
02:18:41,168 --> 02:18:47,107
tonight. It's just something I always battle with and. I hope

2057
02:18:47,107 --> 02:18:50,644
that we can get creative, more creative. That's not

2058
02:18:50,644 --> 02:18:53,581
necessarily specific to you all in this one case, but just in

2059
02:18:53,581 --> 02:18:56,517
general. And that's more so than my colleagues. I hope that

2060
02:18:56,517 --> 02:19:00,588
we can explore other options for folks to take advantage of.

2061
02:19:00,588 --> 02:19:07,788
And and, you know, find a middle ground there. Also, I, I

2062
02:19:09,262 --> 02:19:11,999
know I've been talking about this a bit lately. You know,

2063
02:19:11,999 --> 02:19:16,136
when it comes to supporting our schools, I think about, you

2064
02:19:16,136 --> 02:19:20,207
know, let's say it's $500, $500 per child and it's ten

2065
02:19:20,207 --> 02:19:24,411
children. If it goes to the schools, it goes to a capital

2066
02:19:24,411 --> 02:19:27,481
project, and it doesn't really have any impact. If it was to

2067
02:19:27,481 --> 02:19:31,284
go to the public school foundation that has a much

2068
02:19:31,284 --> 02:19:34,955
larger impact, and I will be meeting with them to see if

2069
02:19:34,955 --> 02:19:36,757
that's something that the school system and the

2070
02:19:36,757 --> 02:19:40,895
foundation could potentially explore. Just how we can have

2071
02:19:40,895 --> 02:19:43,164
a. For the record, I'm a fan, but,

2072
02:19:43,164 --> 02:19:44,965
you know, I'm just sticking to the.

2073
02:19:44,965 --> 02:19:48,302
To the I'm trying to say how we can have a greater impact for

2074
02:19:48,302 --> 02:19:51,906
our for our, our students. I agree and have more of a

2075
02:19:51,906 --> 02:19:54,441
defined relationship between the city and the schools,

2076
02:19:54,441 --> 02:19:58,245
considering they're not in our jurisdictional or fiscal

2077
02:19:58,245 --> 02:20:03,645
portfolio, but okay. Thank you. Thank you. Comments. Yes.

2078
02:20:07,388 --> 02:20:09,390
Thank you. I just wanted to follow up on a

2079
02:20:09,390 --> 02:20:14,790
couple of those, Eby ones, specifically, the expansion of

2080
02:20:14,795 --> 02:20:18,399
stream buffer widths where steep slopes or direct drainage

2081
02:20:18,399 --> 02:20:20,601
to Panther Creek are present, with buffers measured from the

2082
02:20:20,601 --> 02:20:23,336
top of the slopes rather than the stream bank.

2083
02:20:23,336 --> 02:20:28,800
So the issue we can't even begin to say today what those

2084
02:20:28,800 --> 02:20:32,790
areas are. We wouldn't be able to make the commitment. It

2085
02:20:32,790 --> 02:20:36,830
requires some, some, some further engineering. And we

2086
02:20:36,830 --> 02:20:37,952
don't have that level of engineering to be comfortable

2087
02:20:37,952 --> 02:20:39,753
to make that kind of commitment.

2088
02:20:39,753 --> 02:20:43,424
Okay. And then for the no grading or clearing in the

2089
02:20:43,424 --> 02:20:46,424
floodplain, except for strictly necessary.

2090
02:20:47,694 --> 02:20:51,980
I kind of think that's what our commitment already says. So the

2091
02:20:51,980 --> 02:20:54,568
only thing that's allowed in the wildlife and floodplain

2092
02:20:54,568 --> 02:20:56,437
corridors would be infrastructure. And that

2093
02:20:56,437 --> 02:20:59,840
includes a greenway, specifically, the greenway is

2094
02:20:59,840 --> 02:21:05,245
going to require grading in in those areas. And we've already

2095
02:21:05,245 --> 02:21:08,182
I mean, we've adjusted our commitment to build the

2096
02:21:08,182 --> 02:21:11,651
greenway, but it is infrastructure. I mean, I think

2097
02:21:11,651 --> 02:21:13,854
they're kind of saying the same thing. Yes, they are worded

2098
02:21:13,854 --> 02:21:17,191
differently, but I think they are practically getting at the

2099
02:21:17,191 --> 02:21:20,327
same thing. We are not making impacts in the floodplain that

2100
02:21:20,327 --> 02:21:24,197
are not infrastructure. Okay. Thank you. Those are my

2101
02:21:24,197 --> 02:21:27,601
questions. I just want to make a quick comment, which is that

2102
02:21:27,601 --> 02:21:30,805
I was really I'm really was really undecided on this case.

2103
02:21:30,805 --> 02:21:35,543
I still feel pretty undecided, but I'm actually interesting. I

2104
02:21:35,543 --> 02:21:40,800
think that Council Member Kopac asked a asked a question about

2105
02:21:40,800 --> 02:21:44,418
how our infrastructure would be developed if it's not done by a

2106
02:21:44,418 --> 02:21:47,154
private developer, and we hear a lot on this diamond from the

2107
02:21:47,154 --> 02:21:50,754
applicant tonight about how improvements follow

2108
02:21:51,910 --> 02:21:53,438
development, and we don't see the improvements until we see

2109
02:21:53,438 --> 02:21:57,400
the people moving there, but we really don't see that. And the

2110
02:21:57,400 --> 02:21:59,843
reason that we don't see that is because those improvements

2111
02:21:59,843 --> 02:22:03,981
are really, really expensive. And we have a huge backlog

2112
02:22:03,981 --> 02:22:07,518
citywide, but mostly statewide of infrastructure developments.

2113
02:22:07,518 --> 02:22:10,321
And so if we're going to talk about, oh, this will follow

2114
02:22:10,321 --> 02:22:13,191
when there's people that will follow and then simultaneously

2115
02:22:13,191 --> 02:22:16,327
we're hearing, oh, we're not going to be able to make the

2116
02:22:16,327 --> 02:22:18,930
improvements that are already needed without developer,

2117
02:22:18,930 --> 02:22:21,732
without developer money, we're not going to be able to make

2118
02:22:21,732 --> 02:22:24,680
the ones that are subsequently needed. And like the

2119
02:22:24,680 --> 02:22:27,671
improvements that are coming, they are coming because they

2120
02:22:27,671 --> 02:22:32,410
are beneficial to the project. And that is that is what it is.

2121
02:22:32,410 --> 02:22:35,120
It's not solving all of the traffic issues and in fact is

2122
02:22:35,120 --> 02:22:38,482
going to create more traffic issues. And we already know

2123
02:22:38,482 --> 02:22:42,860
that we don't have capacity in the state budget or the city

2124
02:22:42,860 --> 02:22:46,424
budget in this moment to infill that need. And that has kind of

2125
02:22:46,424 --> 02:22:52,496
taken me over the line on this, because it's we've seen so much

2126
02:22:52,496 --> 02:22:55,500
development in this area. We've seen so much cutting of trees

2127
02:22:55,500 --> 02:22:58,569
and and we saw the heat map earlier. And I think that's

2128
02:22:58,569 --> 02:23:00,571
something that I've talked about quite a lot and think is

2129
02:23:00,571 --> 02:23:05,375
really important. This is a justice issue. It's it is a

2130
02:23:05,375 --> 02:23:08,646
longevity issue. If we want to think about Durham surviving

2131
02:23:08,646 --> 02:23:12,500
long term with increased environmental storms and

2132
02:23:12,500 --> 02:23:15,586
impact, we have to think about what will happen after these

2133
02:23:15,586 --> 02:23:17,921
developments come through. And it might look nice because

2134
02:23:17,921 --> 02:23:19,923
there's something shiny being dangled in front of us right

2135
02:23:19,923 --> 02:23:22,994
now, but if we can't sustain it moving forward, then what are

2136
02:23:22,994 --> 02:23:25,863
we passing down? So it's going to be a no. Come to me tonight,

2137
02:23:25,863 --> 02:23:28,866
but I appreciate the proffers and I think that we're getting

2138
02:23:28,866 --> 02:23:32,403
closer, and I hope to see projects that are more

2139
02:23:32,403 --> 02:23:36,300
sustainable moving forward. Mayor Pro Tem.

2140
02:23:37,341 --> 02:23:41,345
Thank you. I wasn't going to say anything changed my mind.

2141
02:23:41,345 --> 02:23:44,549
So I think that and I and I appreciate what council member

2142
02:23:44,549 --> 02:23:46,684
just shared. I think part of it is actually about the

2143
02:23:46,684 --> 02:23:49,286
infrastructure. What we often talk about is around transit

2144
02:23:49,286 --> 02:23:51,889
and commercial, because we often hear from residents

2145
02:23:51,889 --> 02:23:53,891
around, well, this is too much residential. We want

2146
02:23:53,891 --> 02:23:56,294
commercial. No one's going to put commercial if there's not

2147
02:23:56,294 --> 02:24:00,565
enough doors. That is actually an economic decision. And then

2148
02:24:00,565 --> 02:24:03,301
transit. If you don't have ridership, you don't get

2149
02:24:03,301 --> 02:24:05,770
transit. You're not. No one's going to run a bus down your

2150
02:24:05,770 --> 02:24:07,572
street or anywhere close to you. If there's not enough

2151
02:24:07,572 --> 02:24:10,108
people around you to get on a bus. So I think those are the

2152
02:24:10,108 --> 02:24:13,430
two places on the infrastructure with traffic. I

2153
02:24:13,430 --> 02:24:15,712
think it was a few weeks ago where there was supposed to be

2154
02:24:15,712 --> 02:24:17,849
a traffic circle at latter, and Roxboro, and it was in the

2155
02:24:17,849 --> 02:24:19,450
Stip, and it wasn't in the Stip. And I still have to

2156
02:24:19,450 --> 02:24:21,652
follow up with staff to figure out what happened there,

2157
02:24:21,652 --> 02:24:24,389
because I been on the TPO long enough, where I remember it was

2158
02:24:24,389 --> 02:24:28,325
a funded project and then it wasn't. I will be voting for

2159
02:24:28,325 --> 02:24:30,728
this project. I think that there are some deep and

2160
02:24:30,728 --> 02:24:33,464
important commitments. I think that saving $2 million in

2161
02:24:33,464 --> 02:24:35,533
traffic improvements, that we don't know when we'll get

2162
02:24:35,533 --> 02:24:38,202
improved, especially in the state funding. And let's just

2163
02:24:38,202 --> 02:24:40,872
be clear, the state of North Carolina has a scarcity

2164
02:24:40,872 --> 02:24:43,607
mindset. But it's not because we don't have money. We don't

2165
02:24:43,607 --> 02:24:46,210
have money because we don't tax our corporations at the level

2166
02:24:46,210 --> 02:24:51,282
that we want. And that decision is not made on this dais. So

2167
02:24:51,282 --> 02:24:54,170
for, for for folks who really want to see infrastructure

2168
02:24:54,170 --> 02:24:56,887
being done well in North Carolina, your General Assembly

2169
02:24:56,887 --> 02:24:58,889
is the place that you need to go. So I love that y'all are

2170
02:24:58,889 --> 02:25:01,559
here. I hope you also go put some pressure. None on your

2171
02:25:01,559 --> 02:25:03,694
delegation in Durham because they're trying to do the right

2172
02:25:03,694 --> 02:25:07,980
thing. Pressure across the state. We have a ton of money

2173
02:25:07,980 --> 02:25:09,634
in the state. We are an affluent state. At this point.

2174
02:25:09,634 --> 02:25:13,438
It's just dislocated and underfunded and they're passing

2175
02:25:13,438 --> 02:25:17,174
the buck on to you at the local level. And by default, US and

2176
02:25:17,174 --> 02:25:23,470
county commissioners. So I actually appreciate and I had a

2177
02:25:23,470 --> 02:25:27,118
question for staff in a second, but I think the the commitment

2178
02:25:27,118 --> 02:25:30,254
around building the trail and that commitment, I understand

2179
02:25:30,254 --> 02:25:32,190
what you're saying about infrastructure in that the

2180
02:25:32,190 --> 02:25:35,926
reason you can't make the commitment, I'm clear on that.

2181
02:25:35,926 --> 02:25:41,132
That is also saving us a lot of money as a city. It is. These

2182
02:25:41,132 --> 02:25:45,336
are decisions around no cases, perfect. I appreciate

2183
02:25:45,336 --> 02:25:48,205
colleagues asking for more. Every case does offer a little

2184
02:25:48,205 --> 02:25:53,744
bit more. We got, you know, 5% to 8%. Is it ideal? No. None of

2185
02:25:53,744 --> 02:25:56,414
these cases are often very ideal. You're always going to

2186
02:25:56,414 --> 02:26:00,685
make trade offs. And that's why it's a case by case basis for

2187
02:26:00,685 --> 02:26:05,423
the the master planning and all of that I, I get it. I think

2188
02:26:05,423 --> 02:26:07,958
that we also have to be careful. Paris is master

2189
02:26:07,958 --> 02:26:11,562
planned. There were still thousands of people who got

2190
02:26:11,562 --> 02:26:13,964
their homes and businesses taken away from them, because

2191
02:26:13,964 --> 02:26:17,340
the King decided that they wanted to make a what was a

2192
02:26:17,340 --> 02:26:20,171
medieval city, a beautiful city now. But I bet you those people

2193
02:26:20,171 --> 02:26:22,974
who had lived through that had an opinion when things got

2194
02:26:22,974 --> 02:26:25,910
eminent domain and taken from them, essentially, and I'm sure

2195
02:26:25,910 --> 02:26:27,444
they didn't get compensated in the same way you get

2196
02:26:27,444 --> 02:26:30,380
compensated today when things get taken from you from your

2197
02:26:30,380 --> 02:26:35,853
buyer by the government. But that's not how these cases

2198
02:26:35,853 --> 02:26:40,391
work. We look. Or at least I look at the comp plan, which

2199
02:26:40,391 --> 02:26:46,391
was widely done. Maybe folks in this room didn't participate.

2200
02:26:46,530 --> 02:26:51,690
Maybe you did, but it was a multi year process. And at

2201
02:26:51,690 --> 02:26:54,272
least how I make my decisions is around how close did this

2202
02:26:54,272 --> 02:26:57,141
project get to our goals? Sometimes they hit all of them,

2203
02:26:57,141 --> 02:27:00,110
sometimes they don't. Sometimes it's a mix and you just kind of

2204
02:27:00,110 --> 02:27:02,880
have to make your decision based on that. And each one of

2205
02:27:02,880 --> 02:27:05,149
us make a calculus in a different way, and that doesn't

2206
02:27:05,149 --> 02:27:08,152
make somebody a better or less an environmentalist or not. I

2207
02:27:08,152 --> 02:27:10,221
think every single person on this council has made deep

2208
02:27:10,221 --> 02:27:12,423
commitments to environmental justice, to housing

2209
02:27:12,423 --> 02:27:15,759
affordability, not just here. When we do rezoning, I will be

2210
02:27:15,759 --> 02:27:18,295
supporting the case. I did have a question for staff about the

2211
02:27:18,295 --> 02:27:22,166
steep slopes, because we got a presentation around that. I

2212
02:27:22,166 --> 02:27:24,701
don't remember if it was at a work session or JCC, but we

2213
02:27:24,701 --> 02:27:27,171
were going to do some adjustments to that, to to how

2214
02:27:27,171 --> 02:27:33,310
we were doing that. And I just wanted to know. I thought we

2215
02:27:33,310 --> 02:27:37,848
talked about it in the for the Udo. Maybe I'm totally wrong.

2216
02:27:37,848 --> 02:27:41,918
I'm going to look to Director Yan for that answer.

2217
02:27:41,918 --> 02:27:44,522
I thought it was at JCC where we were talking about how we

2218
02:27:44,522 --> 02:27:46,323
were going to be approaching the steep slopes.

2219
02:27:46,323 --> 02:27:48,859
Director young is going to look at you with a confused look on

2220
02:27:48,859 --> 02:27:50,661
her face. Okay, I'm going to go.

2221
02:27:50,661 --> 02:27:53,630
Yeah, let's follow up. Okay. I thought.

2222
02:27:53,630 --> 02:27:54,331
We. Were talking about how we were

2223
02:27:54,331 --> 02:27:58,735
going to approach it in a in a different way, moving forward.

2224
02:27:58,735 --> 02:28:03,883
It may have been so in the LDC, we did slightly change the

2225
02:28:03,883 --> 02:28:06,619
requirements for steep slopes. That may have been what you.

2226
02:28:06,619 --> 02:28:08,821
Were thinking. Yeah. And it was in a way that was better

2227
02:28:08,821 --> 02:28:11,758
environmentally to what we're doing right now. Yes. Okay. So

2228
02:28:11,758 --> 02:28:14,294
for those folks who do show up, residents who show up because

2229
02:28:14,294 --> 02:28:19,980
this is an issue that that gets brought up in cases, often that

2230
02:28:19,980 --> 02:28:21,901
is coming, that has been addressed with the new LDC. And

2231
02:28:21,901 --> 02:28:24,904
I just want to name that as another place that we're trying

2232
02:28:24,904 --> 02:28:27,973
to to improve our our environmental policies with the

2233
02:28:27,973 --> 02:28:33,373
adoption of the new land use code. Thank you.

2234
02:28:35,448 --> 02:28:41,448
Thank you. We are well, thank you, Councilmember, our mayor

2235
02:28:42,322 --> 02:28:47,193
pro tem, for for stating this chicken egg situation. I

2236
02:28:47,193 --> 02:28:51,197
usually just, you know, I sometimes I state those

2237
02:28:51,197 --> 02:28:55,134
realities and and I stake my vote and sometimes I don't I

2238
02:28:55,134 --> 02:28:59,405
just vote, but for the sake of the really nice messages that

2239
02:28:59,405 --> 02:29:03,609
I've got in my email, I have, I am for voting for development,

2240
02:29:03,609 --> 02:29:07,347
refer to those comments and and please take the energy to the

2241
02:29:07,347 --> 02:29:10,830
state and I will join you because they are putting us in

2242
02:29:10,830 --> 02:29:13,190
an impossible situation. If you think it's bad right now, wait

2243
02:29:13,190 --> 02:29:16,756
until they come for our property tax and we won't have

2244
02:29:16,756 --> 02:29:21,494
anything to do any services. So your city Council members are

2245
02:29:21,494 --> 02:29:26,833
not your enemies. I promise. All right, colleagues, my goal

2246
02:29:26,833 --> 02:29:31,437
is to take a break at nine. That was 29 minutes ago. And we

2247
02:29:31,437 --> 02:29:33,973
have two other cases that are probably going to be about an

2248
02:29:33,973 --> 02:29:43,573
hour and a half to two each. So. I am going to. It's too late to

2249
02:29:45,185 --> 02:29:49,989
call out sick. All right. So those are the comments I have.

2250
02:29:49,989 --> 02:29:53,393
I'll go ahead and call for the question.

2251
02:29:53,393 --> 02:29:57,196
Yeah okay. I did close. Oh no I didn't

2252
02:29:57,196 --> 02:29:59,999
actually I declare the public hearing closed and back before

2253
02:29:59,999 --> 02:30:03,669
the council, I thought I did that though.

2254
02:30:03,669 --> 02:30:06,672
I don't. Think so because. Yeah, I don't

2255
02:30:06,672 --> 02:30:08,808
think it's okay. All right. Well, it's closed

2256
02:30:08,808 --> 02:30:12,110
now. And all of the comments and questions were in the

2257
02:30:12,110 --> 02:30:16,615
public hearing. So I'll entertain a motion to conduct a

2258
02:30:16,615 --> 02:30:18,885
public hearing to receive comments and consider the

2259
02:30:18,885 --> 02:30:22,621
following motions. Motion one to adopt an ordinance annexing

2260
02:30:22,621 --> 02:30:25,910
Bella Ridge into the city of Durham and to authorize the

2261
02:30:25,910 --> 02:30:28,627
city manager to enter, to enter into a utility extension

2262
02:30:28,627 --> 02:30:32,165
agreement with Starlight Homes North Carolina, LLC.

2263
02:30:32,165 --> 02:30:34,100
So moved. Second.

2264
02:30:34,100 --> 02:30:35,902
It's been moved and properly seconded. Madam clerk, please

2265
02:30:35,902 --> 02:30:40,102
open the vote. Please close to vote.

2266
02:30:45,912 --> 02:30:50,249
The motion passes 4 to 3 with council members Baker, Burris

2267
02:30:50,249 --> 02:30:53,252
and Cook voting no. Thank you. I'll also entertain

2268
02:30:53,252 --> 02:30:55,254
a motion to adopt an ordinance amending the Unified

2269
02:30:55,254 --> 02:30:58,591
Development Ordinance by taking property out of residents,

2270
02:30:58,591 --> 02:31:01,261
residential. Rural, commercial, neighborhood, and residential

2271
02:31:01,261 --> 02:31:04,864
suburban falls Jordan District B Watershed Protection overlay

2272
02:31:04,864 --> 02:31:08,134
major transportation corridor I-85 overlay county

2273
02:31:08,134 --> 02:31:10,670
jurisdiction and establishing the same as planned

2274
02:31:10,670 --> 02:31:14,270
development. Residential 3.975 Falls Jordan District B

2275
02:31:14,674 --> 02:31:18,211
watershed Protection Overlay. Major transportation corridor

2276
02:31:18,211 --> 02:31:21,414
I-85 overlay city jurisdiction. So moved.

2277
02:31:21,414 --> 02:31:23,883
Second removed and properly second. Madam clerk, please

2278
02:31:23,883 --> 02:31:28,830
open to vote. Please close to vote.

2279
02:31:33,693 --> 02:31:37,430
The motion passes 4 to 3 with Council Member Baker, Burris

2280
02:31:37,430 --> 02:31:40,299
and Cook voting no. Thank you. And I'll finally

2281
02:31:40,299 --> 02:31:42,635
entertain a motion to adopt a consistency statement as

2282
02:31:42,635 --> 02:31:45,438
required by North Carolina General Statutes section 160

2283
02:31:45,438 --> 02:31:47,438
D-605. So moved.

2284
02:31:49,109 --> 02:31:51,577
Second by moving properly. Seconded. Madam clerk, please

2285
02:31:51,577 --> 02:31:55,777
open the vote. Please close the vote.

2286
02:31:58,585 --> 02:32:01,787
Motion passes unanimously. Thank you so much, colleagues.

2287
02:32:01,787 --> 02:32:08,987
We will recess for ten minutes and we'll get back to it.

2288
02:32:33,620 --> 02:32:37,820
It's. I haven't seen it. Sorry. That

2289
02:32:53,640 --> 02:33:02,400
was. Yeah, I will. I. Did so. I was gonna say hi that he's

2290
02:42:30,964 --> 02:42:31,765
he's. Banging the.

2291
02:42:31,765 --> 02:42:34,165
He's banging the. Gavel.

2292
02:42:40,306 --> 02:42:44,506
Alright, let's get started. Colleagues. Excuse me.

2293
02:43:12,139 --> 02:43:15,876
Colleagues, at this time I will be moving item number 24 to net

2294
02:43:15,876 --> 02:43:23,676
to be next on the agenda. And we are ready for the staff

2295
02:43:25,285 --> 02:43:30,685
report. Item number 24. Switching up the order on us.

2296
02:43:51,645 --> 02:43:58,245
I had to figure out which 124 was. Mayor Williams, mayor Pro

2297
02:44:03,123 --> 02:44:06,860
Tem Caballero and honorable council members. I'm Aaron King

2298
02:44:06,860 --> 02:44:10,130
with the Planning and Development Department. Item 24

2299
02:44:10,130 --> 02:44:14,930
is the 25 000 30 a slash BDG 25 000 1994 15 NC 751 highway a

2300
02:44:21,941 --> 02:44:25,812
request for a utility extension agreement, voluntary annexation

2301
02:44:25,812 --> 02:44:28,815
and initial zoning map change has been received from Jared

2302
02:44:28,815 --> 02:44:32,752
Rossi of Thomas and Hutton for one parcel of land totaling

2303
02:44:32,752 --> 02:44:37,552
3.885 acres and located at 94, 15 and C7 51 highway. This

2304
02:44:40,494 --> 02:44:43,296
annexation petition is for a contiguous expansion of the

2305
02:44:43,296 --> 02:44:49,169
primary corporate limits to connect to city water and sewer.

2306
02:44:49,169 --> 02:44:51,904
As part of this annexation petition, the applicant. The

2307
02:44:51,904 --> 02:44:54,775
applicant is not seeking a change in the underlying zoning

2308
02:44:54,775 --> 02:44:58,512
district of residential, rural. The properties are currently

2309
02:44:58,512 --> 02:45:00,981
designated mixed use neighborhood on the place type

2310
02:45:00,981 --> 02:45:04,517
map. The proposed residential rural zoning is generally

2311
02:45:04,517 --> 02:45:07,721
consistent with the designated place type. Staff and the

2312
02:45:07,721 --> 02:45:11,258
applicant are available to answer questions.

2313
02:45:11,258 --> 02:45:13,260
Thank you. You've heard the staff report. There are any

2314
02:45:13,260 --> 02:45:18,998
questions. All right. At this time, I'll declare the public

2315
02:45:18,998 --> 02:45:25,598
hearing open. And are we are ready for the applicant. How

2316
02:45:31,745 --> 02:45:34,480
much time do you think you need?

2317
02:45:34,480 --> 02:45:36,480
45 minutes. I'm sorry.

2318
02:45:36,683 --> 02:45:40,354
No, we'll take we'll take two minutes. Okay. I got two

2319
02:45:40,354 --> 02:45:43,354
minutes. Hopefully I can. Order.

2320
02:45:48,628 --> 02:45:51,964
Jeremy Anderson, Thomas Hutton, mayor Williams, pro Tem

2321
02:45:51,964 --> 02:45:56,502
Caballero and councilman. Thank you this evening for taking the

2322
02:45:56,502 --> 02:46:00,240
time. I'll keep this short to try to save some time. As Aaron

2323
02:46:00,240 --> 02:46:04,110
Cook mentioned, this is a transitional zoning to rural

2324
02:46:04,110 --> 02:46:08,448
residential. Just requesting a annexation into the city to

2325
02:46:08,448 --> 02:46:13,253
access water and sewer for this 2.3 acre parcel at the corner

2326
02:46:13,253 --> 02:46:16,523
of Fayetteville. And 751 if you're familiar with the map in

2327
02:46:16,523 --> 02:46:19,593
the report there, it's really kind of filling in the one last

2328
02:46:19,593 --> 02:46:24,640
piece on the west side of 751 there. There is city zoning,

2329
02:46:24,640 --> 02:46:26,733
city annexation, zoning to the north. And on the opposite side

2330
02:46:26,733 --> 02:46:32,133
of 751. So with that hope, you'll honor the recommendation

2331
02:46:32,739 --> 02:46:35,948
of the Planning Commission, who voted ten zero for this. And

2332
02:46:35,948 --> 02:46:39,818
I'm here to answer any questions. Thank you.

2333
02:46:39,818 --> 02:46:41,818
Thank you. For.

2334
02:46:51,430 --> 02:46:56,167
All right. I don't have any sign ups for this one.

2335
02:46:56,167 --> 02:46:59,370
Therefore, I declare the public hearing closed and back before

2336
02:46:59,370 --> 02:47:03,837
the council. Colleagues, any questions? Comments? All right.

2337
02:47:07,579 --> 02:47:10,182
So I'll entertain a motion to adopt an ordinance annexing

2338
02:47:10,182 --> 02:47:14,382
9415 North Carolina, 751 highway. 751 into the city of

2339
02:47:16,321 --> 02:47:18,790
Durham, and to authorize the city manager to enter into a

2340
02:47:18,790 --> 02:47:22,390
utility extension agreement with 751 investments, LLC.

2341
02:47:22,928 --> 02:47:24,997
So moved. Second. Been moved to properly

2342
02:47:24,997 --> 02:47:30,997
seconded. Madam clerk, please open the vote. Please post a

2343
02:47:33,739 --> 02:47:36,739
vote. Motion passes seven zero.

2344
02:47:37,543 --> 02:47:40,879
Thank you. And I'll also entertain a motion to adopt an

2345
02:47:40,879 --> 02:47:43,281
ordinance amending the Unified Development Ordinance by taking

2346
02:47:43,281 --> 02:47:46,180
property out of residential rural falls. Jordan Watershed

2347
02:47:46,180 --> 02:47:48,753
Overlay District. Be county jurisdiction and establishing

2348
02:47:48,753 --> 02:47:52,825
the same as residential rural falls Jordan Watershed Overlay

2349
02:47:52,825 --> 02:47:57,625
district B overlay city jurisdiction. Second and moving

2350
02:47:57,963 --> 02:48:02,300
properly. Seconded. Madam clerk, please open the vote.

2351
02:48:02,300 --> 02:48:06,972
Please close the vote. Motion passes seven zero.

2352
02:48:06,972 --> 02:48:09,841
And lastly, I'll entertain a motion to adopt a consistency

2353
02:48:09,841 --> 02:48:12,440
statement as required by North Carolina General Statutes

2354
02:48:12,440 --> 02:48:13,979
section 162. Moved.

2355
02:48:13,979 --> 02:48:19,918
Dash second oh five. It's been moved and properly seconded.

2356
02:48:19,918 --> 02:48:24,990
Please open the vote and please close the vote.

2357
02:48:24,990 --> 02:48:29,727
Motion passes seven zero. Awesome. Back up to item number

2358
02:48:29,727 --> 02:48:36,927
22, which I know will be just as quick. All right, ready for

2359
02:48:37,603 --> 02:48:40,538
the staff report? I will say I will reduce comments to two

2360
02:48:40,538 --> 02:48:45,144
minutes on this one and 23 as well. It's not because I don't

2361
02:48:45,144 --> 02:48:52,840
love you as much, it's just that it's a lot of sign up. All

2362
02:48:52,840 --> 02:48:55,200
right. Mayor. Williams, Mayor Pro Tem

2363
02:48:55,200 --> 02:48:59,820
Caballero, Council members, this case is the 25 00011 BDG,

2364
02:49:02,160 --> 02:49:06,960
25 00007 Patterson Hall a request for a utility extension

2365
02:49:08,901 --> 02:49:12,837
agreement, voluntary annexation and initial zoning map change

2366
02:49:12,837 --> 02:49:16,108
has been received from Tim Sivers of Community for four

2367
02:49:16,108 --> 02:49:22,108
parcels of land totaling 39.849 acres and so right of way

2368
02:49:22,647 --> 02:49:26,247
located at 309 353, 401, 402 and 505 Patterson Road. This

2369
02:49:29,588 --> 02:49:32,124
annexation petition is not contiguous to the primary

2370
02:49:32,124 --> 02:49:35,327
corporate limits. However, it is contiguous to a satellite

2371
02:49:35,327 --> 02:49:39,197
portion of the city. The current zoning is residential,

2372
02:49:39,197 --> 02:49:43,100
rural and residential suburban ten. The applicant proposes to

2373
02:49:43,100 --> 02:49:47,739
change the designation of one parcel read 166353, and the

2374
02:49:47,739 --> 02:49:51,939
portions of three parcels with reads 166352166250 and 166349.

2375
02:49:56,810 --> 02:50:00,180
Located west of Patterson Road to plan development residential

2376
02:50:00,180 --> 02:50:04,218
44.703 to allow up to 180. Townhouse attached single

2377
02:50:05,823 --> 02:50:10,695
family and detached single family units with up to 3000ft

2378
02:50:10,695 --> 02:50:14,299
of non-residential uses, excluding gasoline sales and

2379
02:50:14,299 --> 02:50:18,360
drive through facilities. The remaining portions of these

2380
02:50:18,360 --> 02:50:20,906
parcels on the east side of Patterson Road, will be

2381
02:50:20,906 --> 02:50:24,376
translated into the city of Durham as a residential, rural

2382
02:50:24,376 --> 02:50:28,580
and residential suburban ten as direct translations. The

2383
02:50:28,580 --> 02:50:31,649
properties are currently designated misuse. Mixed use

2384
02:50:31,649 --> 02:50:36,254
neighborhood on the place type map. The proposed PDR 4.703

2385
02:50:36,254 --> 02:50:39,590
zoning is generally consistent with the designated place type.

2386
02:50:39,590 --> 02:50:42,393
Thank you. Staff and the applicant are available for any

2387
02:50:42,393 --> 02:50:45,620
questions. Thank you. Are there any

2388
02:50:45,620 --> 02:50:48,620
questions or comments with staff?

2389
02:50:48,133 --> 02:50:53,405
Mr.. I've got one question. Yep. Mr.. Cain on the this is

2390
02:50:53,405 --> 02:50:59,770
in the zoning map change report under the commitments in excess

2391
02:50:59,770 --> 02:51:04,349
of the Udo in the. This is page three of the very bottom of

2392
02:51:04,349 --> 02:51:07,351
page three. It says I just want to clarify that the the

2393
02:51:07,351 --> 02:51:10,755
document, it says at least 2%. But then in parentheses it's

2394
02:51:10,755 --> 02:51:14,159
got 20% of the required open space shall contain

2395
02:51:14,159 --> 02:51:16,161
environmentally sensitive areas, including all or a

2396
02:51:16,161 --> 02:51:18,697
portion of the stream buffer. So is that is that 2 or 20?

2397
02:51:18,697 --> 02:51:23,368
I believe that's supposed to be a 20. Yes. Yes, that's supposed

2398
02:51:23,368 --> 02:51:23,902
to. Be 20.

2399
02:51:23,902 --> 02:51:29,902
Okay. My apologies to the air. Thank you. That's it.

2400
02:51:31,776 --> 02:51:35,447
All right. We'll let the let the record reflect that. All

2401
02:51:35,447 --> 02:51:40,652
right. Declare the public hearing open. And how much time

2402
02:51:40,652 --> 02:51:43,788
do you think you need? If we could have 12 minutes,

2403
02:51:43,788 --> 02:51:45,788
please. 15 minutes. Please.

2404
02:51:54,532 --> 02:51:58,300
Good evening, Mayor Williams. Mayor Pro Tem Caballero.

2405
02:51:58,300 --> 02:52:01,406
Members of council. My name is Marie Farmer with Parker Poe,

2406
02:52:01,406 --> 02:52:04,800
301 Fayetteville Street, Raleigh. Here, on behalf of the

2407
02:52:04,800 --> 02:52:09,147
applicant and my homes, I am joined tonight by the project's

2408
02:52:09,147 --> 02:52:12,684
landscape architect, Tim Sivers with community. The projects,

2409
02:52:12,684 --> 02:52:15,954
transportation planner, John Schick with the RMP and

2410
02:52:15,954 --> 02:52:20,920
representatives of MI homes, including Juan Montez, director

2411
02:52:20,920 --> 02:52:24,562
of Land Entitlements. The team is proud to present this

2412
02:52:24,562 --> 02:52:27,699
moderately sized mixed use project tonight, with numerous

2413
02:52:27,699 --> 02:52:30,769
commitments to address the project's impact, including a

2414
02:52:30,769 --> 02:52:34,238
first of its kind voluntary transportation improvement

2415
02:52:34,238 --> 02:52:37,442
that, in addition to the affordable proffer and donation

2416
02:52:37,442 --> 02:52:40,511
to Durham Public Schools, will provide a total community

2417
02:52:40,511 --> 02:52:45,911
investment of $1 million. MI has been developing in this

2418
02:52:46,522 --> 02:52:49,726
area for 25 years, with communities throughout the

2419
02:52:49,726 --> 02:52:53,262
triangle. We wanted to illustrate a few examples of

2420
02:52:53,262 --> 02:52:57,200
homes and amenities that MI has delivered locally to show the

2421
02:52:57,200 --> 02:53:01,203
type of quality to expect from this developer. Am. I also has

2422
02:53:01,203 --> 02:53:04,340
experience building communities here in Durham with several

2423
02:53:04,340 --> 02:53:07,609
subdivisions currently under construction, including one

2424
02:53:07,609 --> 02:53:11,214
that is providing a five acre public park with multiple play

2425
02:53:11,214 --> 02:53:16,486
structures and a pavilion with public restrooms. The project

2426
02:53:16,486 --> 02:53:20,423
we are discussing tonight, and the request is to rezone four

2427
02:53:20,423 --> 02:53:23,959
parcels adjacent to city limits within the urban growth

2428
02:53:23,959 --> 02:53:28,310
boundary along Patterson Road, just north of the Patterson and

2429
02:53:28,310 --> 02:53:30,566
Wake Forest Highway intersection. The total a

2430
02:53:30,566 --> 02:53:35,371
little under 40 acres. The property is surrounded by city

2431
02:53:35,371 --> 02:53:39,908
limits, and the proposal is consistent with policy 165 of

2432
02:53:39,908 --> 02:53:44,113
the Comprehensive Plan because it will expand those limits and

2433
02:53:44,113 --> 02:53:48,451
reduce the existing donut hole. Despite the site being located

2434
02:53:48,451 --> 02:53:51,653
at the bottom of the Patterson Road future growth area, the

2435
02:53:51,653 --> 02:53:55,124
proposal does further the Comprehensive Plan policy

2436
02:53:55,124 --> 02:54:00,463
objective 122 because it will upgrade sewer capacity with a

2437
02:54:00,463 --> 02:54:04,000
public lift station that will connect to the existing gravity

2438
02:54:04,000 --> 02:54:09,405
sewer in Stallings Road, and there will be stubs provided to

2439
02:54:09,405 --> 02:54:15,110
the adjacent parcels. The current zoning on the site is

2440
02:54:15,110 --> 02:54:18,480
residential, rural and residential suburban ten, and

2441
02:54:18,480 --> 02:54:22,850
we are requesting PDR with the development plan to allow for a

2442
02:54:22,850 --> 02:54:25,354
mixed residential development with a neighborhood scale

2443
02:54:25,354 --> 02:54:30,760
commercial use consistent with the play site. The property is

2444
02:54:30,760 --> 02:54:33,429
designated mixed use neighborhood by the Place Type

2445
02:54:33,429 --> 02:54:37,320
map, and our proposal meets this designation because we are

2446
02:54:37,320 --> 02:54:40,636
proposing a mix of uses and housing types at a moderate

2447
02:54:40,636 --> 02:54:44,440
density with integrated open space that will capture the

2448
02:54:44,440 --> 02:54:48,640
environmentally sensitive features on site. Again, this

2449
02:54:50,460 --> 02:54:54,183
request is offering a number of key tax commitments. We have

2450
02:54:54,183 --> 02:54:58,520
committed to a minimum of two housing types. 10% of the units

2451
02:54:58,520 --> 02:55:03,259
featuring a first floor primary bedroom and full bath. We for

2452
02:55:03,259 --> 02:55:08,531
the non-residential use tonight we are adding a minimum size

2453
02:55:08,531 --> 02:55:13,331
for the non-residential building of 1000ft . We have

2454
02:55:13,402 --> 02:55:16,405
committed to income restricted units or donation to the

2455
02:55:16,405 --> 02:55:19,342
dedicated housing fund. And tonight we would also like to

2456
02:55:19,342 --> 02:55:24,142
increase that amount to $285,000. We have committed to

2457
02:55:24,679 --> 02:55:29,479
EV charging stations, a green building program, maximum 50%

2458
02:55:29,484 --> 02:55:34,890
impervious surface, a maximum of two stream crossings, native

2459
02:55:34,890 --> 02:55:37,689
trees, 20% of required open space containing

2460
02:55:38,260 --> 02:55:41,626
environmentally sensitive features, and 22% tree coverage.

2461
02:55:43,366 --> 02:55:46,835
At Planning Commission, we also increased our contribution to

2462
02:55:46,835 --> 02:55:51,400
Durham Public Schools to $15,000, which comes out to

2463
02:55:51,400 --> 02:55:56,445
more than $1,500 per student. That would be generated by this

2464
02:55:56,445 --> 02:56:00,382
new zoning. We have added a commitment for the 100 year

2465
02:56:00,382 --> 02:56:03,518
storm, and we added a commitment for a third row of

2466
02:56:03,518 --> 02:56:06,988
cell fence adjacent to the stream. After Planning

2467
02:56:06,988 --> 02:56:10,459
commission. In response to feedback we received, including

2468
02:56:10,459 --> 02:56:13,595
feedback that we heard from Preserve Rural Durham, we added

2469
02:56:13,595 --> 02:56:17,132
a commitment to address the 100 year storm for the erosion

2470
02:56:17,132 --> 02:56:20,335
control sediment basins, so that we are addressing the 100

2471
02:56:20,335 --> 02:56:26,335
year storm for both pre and post construction. While we

2472
02:56:26,408 --> 02:56:30,612
submitted this application as a textural development plan at

2473
02:56:30,612 --> 02:56:33,349
Planning Commission, we did provide this visual that you

2474
02:56:33,349 --> 02:56:37,753
see her on screen to preview the concept plan. And while

2475
02:56:37,753 --> 02:56:41,223
this does not represent graphic commitments of the zoning, our

2476
02:56:41,223 --> 02:56:44,493
goal was to provide clarity as to where the project's access

2477
02:56:44,493 --> 02:56:47,829
points, boundary stream buffers, and integrated open

2478
02:56:47,829 --> 02:56:51,500
space would be located. So you can see here the two access

2479
02:56:51,500 --> 02:56:56,371
points off of Patterson Road, a minimum 30 foot undisturbed

2480
02:56:56,371 --> 02:57:00,109
project boundary buffer. In dark green, you can see the 100

2481
02:57:00,109 --> 02:57:03,913
foot stream buffer in dark blue. The integrated

2482
02:57:03,913 --> 02:57:07,783
recreational open space and orange, the existing sewer

2483
02:57:07,783 --> 02:57:10,586
easement in light green, and then the plan location for the

2484
02:57:10,586 --> 02:57:15,257
commercial out parcel is highlighted by the white Star

2485
02:57:15,257 --> 02:57:18,927
Sense Planning Commission to provide an extra layer of

2486
02:57:18,927 --> 02:57:23,331
certainty. Am I decided to take the financial risk and submit

2487
02:57:23,331 --> 02:57:26,200
the site plan for this project in advance of tonight's

2488
02:57:26,200 --> 02:57:29,400
hearing, so that there is no doubt as to what the plan is

2489
02:57:29,400 --> 02:57:32,141
for this site. As you can see, the site plan matches the

2490
02:57:32,141 --> 02:57:36,120
concept that was previewed at Planning Commission, providing

2491
02:57:36,120 --> 02:57:39,881
a mix of housing types. Only one stream crossing, integrated

2492
02:57:39,881 --> 02:57:43,351
open space and the commercial out parcel at the second access

2493
02:57:43,351 --> 02:57:48,751
point. And this plan shows 150 homes. To address our

2494
02:57:50,626 --> 02:57:53,695
consistency with policy, 50 of the Comprehensive Plan. Because

2495
02:57:53,695 --> 02:57:57,433
the site is not located within half a mile of a public park,

2496
02:57:57,433 --> 02:58:00,836
we did want to also illustrate that this project is less than

2497
02:58:00,836 --> 02:58:05,636
700ft from the Oak Grove Associates athletic fields.

2498
02:58:06,108 --> 02:58:10,112
Overall, this request is consistent with 23 out of 26

2499
02:58:10,112 --> 02:58:13,248
applicable policies of the Comprehensive Plan. By meeting

2500
02:58:13,248 --> 02:58:17,520
Udo standards with 11 policies and exceeding those standards

2501
02:58:17,520 --> 02:58:22,320
of consistency with 12. In addition to the multiple

2502
02:58:22,324 --> 02:58:25,527
changes to the project that we made at and after Planning

2503
02:58:25,527 --> 02:58:29,598
Commission, we also voluntarily study the project's impact to

2504
02:58:29,598 --> 02:58:32,734
the Wake Forest Highway. And Sharon Patterson Road

2505
02:58:32,734 --> 02:58:37,406
intersection. Because traffic has been the biggest concern

2506
02:58:37,406 --> 02:58:41,343
that we have heard from the community for this case. Now,

2507
02:58:41,343 --> 02:58:45,281
despite the anticipated impact of this project being less than

2508
02:58:45,281 --> 02:58:49,818
5%, our team explored several options to improve traffic flow

2509
02:58:49,818 --> 02:58:54,824
at the intersection. We worked with city staff and Ddot, and

2510
02:58:54,824 --> 02:58:57,563
we are proud to have added a commitment for voluntary

2511
02:58:57,563 --> 02:59:01,366
improvement that city Transportation and D.O.T. agree

2512
02:59:01,366 --> 02:59:04,370
will be the most impactful to traffic flow. Out of the

2513
02:59:04,370 --> 02:59:08,107
options that we evaluated. So, before concluding our

2514
02:59:08,107 --> 02:59:11,777
presentation, I would like to invite Tim Sivers to come up

2515
02:59:11,777 --> 02:59:16,181
and briefly explain what this improvement is, and then Juan

2516
02:59:16,181 --> 02:59:18,917
Montez with MI homes would like to come up and say a few words

2517
02:59:18,917 --> 02:59:21,787
about this request. And the reason am I is grateful to have

2518
02:59:21,787 --> 02:59:25,190
the opportunity to make an investment here in Durham.

2519
02:59:25,190 --> 02:59:29,390
Thank you. Thank you. Tim Sivers with

2520
02:59:32,998 --> 02:59:36,602
community 16 Consultant Place here in Durham. You can see on

2521
02:59:36,602 --> 02:59:40,272
the screen are two options. We did. As mentioned, we did

2522
02:59:40,272 --> 02:59:42,741
spend. time reviewing. The multiple.

2523
02:59:42,741 --> 02:59:46,879
Ideas and narrowed this down to these two options. We met with

2524
02:59:46,879 --> 02:59:52,879
city Transportation and Ddot about both of these. Option one

2525
02:59:54,486 --> 02:59:57,689
what approximately double the length of the eastbound right

2526
02:59:57,689 --> 03:00:01,627
turn lane would allow would allow more vehicles through

2527
03:00:01,627 --> 03:00:04,630
this intersection. It didn't quite have the impact that we

2528
03:00:04,630 --> 03:00:09,701
were looking for. So tonight and in the and working with

2529
03:00:09,701 --> 03:00:14,773
staff, we have already committed to option two. And

2530
03:00:14,773 --> 03:00:17,108
after meeting with Transportation and City of,

2531
03:00:17,108 --> 03:00:20,245
they both agreed that this option provides, which would

2532
03:00:20,245 --> 03:00:23,248
provide second lane through this intersection is more

2533
03:00:23,248 --> 03:00:26,919
effective and impactful solution. So starting on the

2534
03:00:26,919 --> 03:00:29,788
left side of your screen, the eastbound right turn lane,

2535
03:00:29,788 --> 03:00:33,392
which is in front of Walgreens, will become a shared through

2536
03:00:33,392 --> 03:00:36,862
and right turn lane. The three lane will be extended from the

2537
03:00:36,862 --> 03:00:41,620
intersection approximately 100 1100 feet to the east. The

2538
03:00:41,466 --> 03:00:44,202
three lane will also be a right turn lane into the shopping

2539
03:00:44,202 --> 03:00:49,600
center of Raven Stone, as well as Arbor Edge Lane. This

2540
03:00:49,600 --> 03:00:51,209
improvement will increase the flow of traffic through this

2541
03:00:51,209 --> 03:00:54,613
intersection, headed east towards Wake Forest. By

2542
03:00:54,613 --> 03:00:58,750
doubling the number of through lanes at the intersection. So

2543
03:00:58,750 --> 03:01:01,286
we have heard the concerns of the neighbors and understand

2544
03:01:01,286 --> 03:01:04,355
the concerns with this specific intersection, and have provided

2545
03:01:04,355 --> 03:01:06,958
this voluntary improvement here this evening. And I would like

2546
03:01:06,958 --> 03:01:12,958
to hand it off to Juan Montes with MI homes.

2547
03:01:17,769 --> 03:01:20,839
Good evening. Mayor Williams and members of the Durham City

2548
03:01:20,839 --> 03:01:24,108
Council. My name is Juan Montes and I'm with MI homes, the

2549
03:01:24,108 --> 03:01:26,778
developer for both this case and the Morgan Farm case, which

2550
03:01:26,778 --> 03:01:30,448
you will hear momentarily. I want to take a moment and let

2551
03:01:30,448 --> 03:01:32,784
you hear directly from him. I our intentions with the

2552
03:01:32,784 --> 03:01:36,388
Patterson Project as a Durham resident myself that lives off

2553
03:01:36,388 --> 03:01:38,923
of Sharon Road, just a few seconds from the Sharon

2554
03:01:38,923 --> 03:01:41,927
Patterson Wake Forest Highway intersection, I deal with

2555
03:01:41,927 --> 03:01:45,464
congestion here every day and definitely share the public's

2556
03:01:45,464 --> 03:01:49,200
main concern. While it does bring me frustration to sit in

2557
03:01:49,200 --> 03:01:52,270
traffic, it also fuels me with motivation. As a land developer

2558
03:01:52,270 --> 03:01:55,206
and as a homebuilder. Do what I can do to improve the community

2559
03:01:55,206 --> 03:01:58,100
I live in, as well as the communities we in our homes

2560
03:01:58,100 --> 03:02:01,546
invest in. This is why we work closely with Durham and NCDOT

2561
03:02:01,546 --> 03:02:04,416
to voluntarily commit to improve the intersection at its

2562
03:02:04,416 --> 03:02:10,622
most congested point. We were not held to have a tire on this

2563
03:02:10,622 --> 03:02:13,891
project, meaning this this level of study is quite

2564
03:02:13,891 --> 03:02:16,891
unprecedented. Despite Patterson's proposed traffic

2565
03:02:17,628 --> 03:02:22,330
impacts being less than 5% and not required to perform a Tia

2566
03:02:22,330 --> 03:02:26,371
in my homes is willing to contribute a $700,000

2567
03:02:26,371 --> 03:02:29,708
improvement to this intersection. I'm also very

2568
03:02:29,708 --> 03:02:32,176
aware of Durham's urgency to supply affordable housing to

2569
03:02:32,176 --> 03:02:37,449
its fast growing population. I work every day. We work every

2570
03:02:37,449 --> 03:02:39,650
day to find solutions, innovative techniques and

2571
03:02:39,650 --> 03:02:41,987
strategies to help our younger generations purchase their

2572
03:02:41,987 --> 03:02:44,923
first homes and our older generations to purchase their

2573
03:02:44,923 --> 03:02:47,993
retirement homes. We're proposing a commitment of

2574
03:02:47,993 --> 03:02:52,196
$285,000 to the dedicated housing fund, or 5% of the

2575
03:02:52,196 --> 03:02:56,996
units, at 80% Ami, as is Durham Standard, a $285,000

2576
03:02:58,300 --> 03:03:01,206
contribution is approximately $1,900 per unit that can be

2577
03:03:01,206 --> 03:03:03,875
invested into affordable housing projects, down payment

2578
03:03:03,875 --> 03:03:06,411
assistance, and other mechanisms that the city has

2579
03:03:06,411 --> 03:03:09,147
available to face the housing crisis. We believe this

2580
03:03:09,147 --> 03:03:12,830
contribution will strengthen the city's ability to pivot

2581
03:03:12,830 --> 03:03:15,153
whenever market market conditions shift, which they

2582
03:03:15,153 --> 03:03:18,557
inevitably will. In addition to the transportation improvements

2583
03:03:18,557 --> 03:03:20,158
and affordable housing contributions, we are

2584
03:03:20,158 --> 03:03:23,280
contributing $15,000 to the Durham Public Schools, which is

2585
03:03:23,280 --> 03:03:26,300
about three times the standard to get us to a total of $1

2586
03:03:26,300 --> 03:03:29,167
million of voluntary investment to this great community in my

2587
03:03:29,167 --> 03:03:31,636
homes, is no stranger to Durham and will be around for the

2588
03:03:31,636 --> 03:03:34,639
foreseeable future, as we've already broken ground on large

2589
03:03:34,639 --> 03:03:37,842
projects that also invest heavily into the community. As

2590
03:03:37,842 --> 03:03:40,712
you've seen with our past and ongoing projects, the project,

2591
03:03:40,712 --> 03:03:44,490
The Patterson Project, and I hope you will see the Morgan

2592
03:03:44,490 --> 03:03:48,587
Farm Project. We've left no stone unturned in our mission

2593
03:03:48,587 --> 03:03:50,722
to be the best partner and investor of Durham and its

2594
03:03:50,722 --> 03:03:52,991
residents that we can be. I thank you for your time

2595
03:03:52,991 --> 03:03:56,194
tonight, and I hope you support the cases as presented in front

2596
03:03:56,194 --> 03:04:02,194
of you tonight. I just like to say thank you.

2597
03:04:05,403 --> 03:04:07,739
And the applicant team is available to answer any

2598
03:04:07,739 --> 03:04:12,539
questions. Thank you. We have quite a few

2599
03:04:14,790 --> 03:04:19,840
speakers here for this one. We'll start online. First

2600
03:04:19,840 --> 03:04:26,284
speaker I have is Mary Molina. Miss Molina, can you hear me?

2601
03:04:31,950 --> 03:04:34,695
I'm here. Can you hear me?

2602
03:04:35,567 --> 03:04:38,637
Oh, there you go. Welcome. You have two minutes.

2603
03:04:38,637 --> 03:04:41,639
Okay. Thank you. My name is Mary Molina. My

2604
03:04:41,639 --> 03:04:46,311
address is on file. This Paterson Hall proposal

2605
03:04:46,311 --> 03:04:50,382
represents exactly the kind of reckless leapfrog development

2606
03:04:50,382 --> 03:04:54,919
that our comprehensive plan was designed to stop Councilmember

2607
03:04:54,919 --> 03:04:58,456
Monroe, when you ran for your at large seat, you campaigned

2608
03:04:58,456 --> 03:05:02,460
on a platform of widely shared prosperity and a healthier

2609
03:05:02,460 --> 03:05:05,933
environment. This project contradicts those very

2610
03:05:05,933 --> 03:05:10,336
promises. It ignores our urban growth boundary. It

2611
03:05:10,336 --> 03:05:14,408
overburdened our failing fire services, and it threatens the

2612
03:05:14,408 --> 03:05:18,412
Falls Lake watershed. Ground zero of our city's drinking

2613
03:05:18,412 --> 03:05:23,817
water. As we look ahead to the 2027 election cycle, we're

2614
03:05:23,817 --> 03:05:26,954
watching to see if our representatives will prioritize

2615
03:05:26,954 --> 03:05:30,424
the safety of our rural corridors over the profits of

2616
03:05:30,424 --> 03:05:34,628
developers, Council Member Ben Reese we haven't forgotten the

2617
03:05:34,628 --> 03:05:38,499
principles you said you stood for to get here. We need you to

2618
03:05:38,499 --> 03:05:42,502
help. We need you to vote, to hold the line, to protect our

2619
03:05:42,502 --> 03:05:46,639
water and protect our safety. Don't let more sprawl dictate

2620
03:05:46,639 --> 03:05:52,390
Durham's future. Vote no on Paterson Hall. Thank you.

2621
03:05:53,980 --> 03:05:57,580
Next, I have George Geraldine Lawson.

2622
03:06:08,262 --> 03:06:11,331
I'm here. Welcome. You have two two

2623
03:06:11,331 --> 03:06:13,667
minutes. Thank you. And thank you all

2624
03:06:13,667 --> 03:06:16,270
for your thoughtful consideration. We've been

2625
03:06:16,270 --> 03:06:20,607
listening all evening to you as you go over these proposals. We

2626
03:06:20,607 --> 03:06:25,412
are a long time 50 year residents on Paterson Road, and

2627
03:06:25,412 --> 03:06:29,682
we are very concerned about progress. The desires of the

2628
03:06:29,682 --> 03:06:32,819
developers preceding the repairs that have been needed

2629
03:06:32,819 --> 03:06:36,156
for years to the intersection and to the infrastructure in

2630
03:06:36,156 --> 03:06:40,360
this section of Durham. I it sounds like there's a there's

2631
03:06:40,360 --> 03:06:43,363
an idea that we should rely on the developers, perhaps for

2632
03:06:43,363 --> 03:06:46,166
improvements, but we feel like this should be done in

2633
03:06:46,166 --> 03:06:49,703
coordination with city and county governments before we

2634
03:06:49,703 --> 03:06:53,440
allow a lot of explosive development. So much is

2635
03:06:53,440 --> 03:06:56,843
happening in our area. We're so close to highway 98. I

2636
03:06:56,843 --> 03:06:59,378
appreciate the proposal and thought that's gone into the

2637
03:06:59,378 --> 03:07:02,516
road improvements, but there are more intersections than

2638
03:07:02,516 --> 03:07:05,118
just 98 and Sharon Road and Paterson. There's also

2639
03:07:05,118 --> 03:07:07,988
Stallings Road coming right in. I'm not sure all the feeder

2640
03:07:07,988 --> 03:07:11,858
roads are considered in that plan. And it's it's it's very

2641
03:07:11,858 --> 03:07:16,797
worrisome to us for safety. And we're we're 30 year. My husband

2642
03:07:16,797 --> 03:07:20,934
and I are 30 year retired educators in the Durham public

2643
03:07:20,934 --> 03:07:25,138
schools. And we value quality. We value we value change, we

2644
03:07:25,138 --> 03:07:28,208
value improvements. But they need to be aligned. They need

2645
03:07:28,208 --> 03:07:32,408
to be aligned in the right order.

2646
03:07:33,947 --> 03:07:38,352
Thank you. Ray Larson stepping in. We've lived here for like

2647
03:07:38,352 --> 03:07:43,152
55 years and it's a wonderful community with tremendous

2648
03:07:43,289 --> 03:07:49,889
traditions of rural farming and and and nature and and this,

2649
03:07:52,990 --> 03:07:56,436
this, this intrusion is, is going to ruin a long tradition

2650
03:07:56,436 --> 03:07:59,972
of things that we've had there that mean a lot to us. And I

2651
03:07:59,972 --> 03:08:04,111
hope you consider that before you, you develop unnecessarily

2652
03:08:04,111 --> 03:08:08,648
when we have plenty of growth in other areas.

2653
03:08:08,648 --> 03:08:11,500
Thank you very much, and we appreciate your thoughtful

2654
03:08:11,500 --> 03:08:13,854
consideration of this. This part of Durham, which is not

2655
03:08:13,854 --> 03:08:15,321
only special to us. But.

2656
03:08:15,321 --> 03:08:19,860
So special. Thank you. Next, I have Rebecca

2657
03:08:19,860 --> 03:08:21,860
Freeman. Hello, I'm.

2658
03:08:31,710 --> 03:08:34,140
Rebecca Freeman. Welcome. You have two minutes.

2659
03:08:34,140 --> 03:08:38,812
Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Mayor and council

2660
03:08:38,812 --> 03:08:41,681
members, I appreciate being able to speak on this tonight.

2661
03:08:41,681 --> 03:08:45,685
I wanted it just to focus on policy. 116 on 71 and 116. This

2662
03:08:45,685 --> 03:08:48,554
focuses around the 15 minute community and access to

2663
03:08:48,554 --> 03:08:52,692
shopping areas. I think that the upgrades that that the is

2664
03:08:52,692 --> 03:08:57,300
committed now to Parson Road is is really a step forward. But

2665
03:08:57,300 --> 03:09:01,501
however it does nothing to protect pedestrians and to move

2666
03:09:01,501 --> 03:09:04,170
traffic along like needs to be done to get through that

2667
03:09:04,170 --> 03:09:07,770
intersection. There are pedestrian crosswalk upgrade

2668
03:09:09,642 --> 03:09:15,115
with a pedestrian signal at the intersection would be vital to

2669
03:09:15,115 --> 03:09:18,518
making safety safer for pedestrians, as well as

2670
03:09:18,518 --> 03:09:23,923
improving the sidewalk on the opposite side of the on the

2671
03:09:23,923 --> 03:09:29,329
north side. I think towards highway 70. That we would be

2672
03:09:29,329 --> 03:09:32,732
required to have for people to safely navigate that whole

2673
03:09:32,732 --> 03:09:36,470
area. There probably is to cross into 98, and that's a

2674
03:09:36,470 --> 03:09:41,800
busy, busy thoroughfare carrying people from past on

2675
03:09:41,800 --> 03:09:43,543
the other side of Falls Lake and Wake Forest area all the

2676
03:09:43,543 --> 03:09:46,790
way into Durham. There are no other good ways to get on the

2677
03:09:46,790 --> 03:09:49,883
other side of Falls Lake. NC 98 is a major thoroughfare. Lots

2678
03:09:49,883 --> 03:09:52,685
of traffic there all day long and especially in the morning

2679
03:09:52,685 --> 03:09:57,557
in the evening. And it's just a very difficult intersection to

2680
03:09:57,557 --> 03:10:01,940
navigate safely. There are lots of accidents there, and

2681
03:10:01,940 --> 03:10:04,297
pedestrians would be extremely in putting their lives at

2682
03:10:04,297 --> 03:10:07,567
danger and walking through that, trying to access the

2683
03:10:07,567 --> 03:10:11,104
shopping area, the pedestrian area as well. So I appreciate

2684
03:10:11,104 --> 03:10:14,307
that there's a step forward, but it's not enough to make

2685
03:10:14,307 --> 03:10:18,779
sure that the people in this area can have navigate to the

2686
03:10:18,779 --> 03:10:22,516
15 minute community style that the city wants us to get

2687
03:10:22,516 --> 03:10:26,919
toward, and it has to be more than just the want to do it.

2688
03:10:26,919 --> 03:10:30,724
It's got to make sure that pedestrians and traffic traffic

2689
03:10:30,724 --> 03:10:33,593
is safe. Pedestrians are safe is as well. Thank you very

2690
03:10:33,593 --> 03:10:37,731
much. Thank you so much. Next. Thomas

2691
03:10:37,731 --> 03:10:44,931
Freeman. Pass the phone over. There we go. Yes. Do you have

2692
03:10:51,100 --> 03:10:53,347
two minutes? All right.

2693
03:10:53,347 --> 03:10:58,551
I hope you can hear me. I was signed up to speak with in a

2694
03:10:58,551 --> 03:11:03,690
previous hearing, but was not given the opportunity to speak.

2695
03:11:03,690 --> 03:11:06,827
I wish you got needed. You need to look into that, Mr. Mayor. I

2696
03:11:06,827 --> 03:11:09,696
hold you personally responsible for that.

2697
03:11:09,696 --> 03:11:15,960
Yes, sir. I had to to blasting or I'm

2698
03:11:15,102 --> 03:11:19,706
looking for a request for a commitment to no blasting,

2699
03:11:19,706 --> 03:11:22,776
blasting creeks, lots of problems. And I guarantee you,

2700
03:11:22,776 --> 03:11:26,646
if you ask the the proponent if there will be blasting, they

2701
03:11:26,646 --> 03:11:32,119
will not be able to answer you. I suggest they look around at

2702
03:11:32,119 --> 03:11:35,789
their dozens of projects that have been built. Look at the

2703
03:11:35,789 --> 03:11:41,661
USGS Topo Soils maps and they will know that yes, blasting is

2704
03:11:41,661 --> 03:11:48,100
a requirement to get to the to a mass graded high density site.

2705
03:11:48,100 --> 03:11:51,204
Blasting has caused well damages. We are currently in a

2706
03:11:51,204 --> 03:11:54,804
USGS, D3 Extreme Drought condition. There's 270,000

2707
03:11:57,744 --> 03:12:02,549
people in Durham County that's subject to this drought.

2708
03:12:02,549 --> 03:12:07,553
Because we're on well water, we don't have the luxury to turn

2709
03:12:07,553 --> 03:12:11,290
on the spigot and have the City of Water, City of Durham's

2710
03:12:11,290 --> 03:12:14,961
water, come through our pipes. They're actually I'm tired of

2711
03:12:14,961 --> 03:12:20,767
being held hostage to that. I'd also like to talk about the

2712
03:12:20,767 --> 03:12:24,367
commitment to undisturbed buffers, undisturbed buffers

2713
03:12:25,772 --> 03:12:30,572
are a requirement. Any otherwise. Clark. Other uses

2714
03:12:33,846 --> 03:12:38,652
may be may occur within that buffer. And let it is unless it

2715
03:12:38,652 --> 03:12:43,390
is designated as undisturbed. That's all I have this evening.

2716
03:12:43,390 --> 03:12:47,260
Good night. Good night. Thank you. Next I

2717
03:12:47,260 --> 03:12:52,660
have Chaz Clayton. Welcome. Yeah. You have two minutes.

2718
03:12:59,500 --> 03:13:01,474
Welcome. All right. Thank you sir. Yes,

2719
03:13:01,474 --> 03:13:05,110
again. My name is Chaz Clayton. My address should be on file. I

2720
03:13:05,110 --> 03:13:09,282
am a farmer in this location, and I have a lot of concerns

2721
03:13:09,282 --> 03:13:14,210
regarding this. We have a we have bad traffic issues. As it

2722
03:13:14,210 --> 03:13:18,625
is, the roads are not maintained as enough. You have

2723
03:13:18,625 --> 03:13:22,695
the intersection of 98 and it is always backed up past this

2724
03:13:22,695 --> 03:13:25,565
location where they're talking about the development. Friday

2725
03:13:25,565 --> 03:13:27,901
afternoon. Anybody's more than welcome to go get in that

2726
03:13:27,901 --> 03:13:32,839
traffic with me traveling with equipment every day. I have

2727
03:13:32,839 --> 03:13:36,977
people continuously try to run me off the road, flick me off

2728
03:13:36,977 --> 03:13:40,980
the settlement in this area for farmers is bad enough. It's

2729
03:13:40,980 --> 03:13:45,585
going to cause it to be worse. And we put thousands of dollars

2730
03:13:45,585 --> 03:13:49,255
in it every year just trying to make ends meet. I have kids, I

2731
03:13:49,255 --> 03:13:52,325
have a wife, I have a family. So when you lay your head down

2732
03:13:52,325 --> 03:13:55,128
at night or you pick up your Ford, eat some food, please

2733
03:13:55,128 --> 03:13:57,997
think of the farmer that helps put that on your plate and how

2734
03:13:57,997 --> 03:14:02,536
I'm having to try to make ends meet and survive. Thank you.

2735
03:14:02,536 --> 03:14:09,136
Thank you so much. Kate Ham. I'm. I'm sorry. That's item

2736
03:14:13,413 --> 03:14:19,413
number 23. All right. We're in person. At this point. All

2737
03:14:20,620 --> 03:14:28,420
right, management is what I call up a few names and five at

2738
03:14:28,428 --> 03:14:31,898
a time. If you can queue to my right, your left. Mike Rowe,

2739
03:14:31,898 --> 03:14:37,898
Cocoa row. Andy Lowe. Donna, stand back. And Gary McLean.

2740
03:15:01,394 --> 03:15:04,640
Welcome. You have two minutes. Thank you. I appreciate the

2741
03:15:04,640 --> 03:15:07,670
opportunity to speak here tonight. My name is Mike Rowe.

2742
03:15:07,670 --> 03:15:12,720
I live at 5602 Dude Ranch Road. I'm a. resident close to the

2743
03:15:12,720 --> 03:15:14,541
area of this development. I'm not going to take a lot of

2744
03:15:14,541 --> 03:15:18,945
time. I just want to primarily support, voice my support for

2745
03:15:18,945 --> 03:15:22,348
the comments that have already been made in this matter, and

2746
03:15:22,348 --> 03:15:25,351
also just wanted to emphasize again, that the Planning

2747
03:15:25,351 --> 03:15:28,154
Commission did review this project and did unanimously

2748
03:15:28,154 --> 03:15:31,758
vote not to approve. And I hope that the Council will take that

2749
03:15:31,758 --> 03:15:34,961
into consideration when making your decision tonight. Thank

2750
03:15:34,961 --> 03:15:38,561
you. Thank you. Welcome. You have

2751
03:15:38,765 --> 03:15:42,102
two minutes. Thank you. Hi. My name is Coco

2752
03:15:42,102 --> 03:15:46,373
Rowe and I'm 15 and I live on 5602 Dude Ranch Road, just up

2753
03:15:46,373 --> 03:15:48,975
the road from the project. And I have some concerns I'd like

2754
03:15:48,975 --> 03:15:51,845
to voice. Destroying this force will be detrimental. It will

2755
03:15:51,845 --> 03:15:54,847
take away habitat from the wildlife and pollute falls like

2756
03:15:54,847 --> 03:15:57,584
I've lived here my entire life. I grew up playing in these

2757
03:15:57,584 --> 03:16:00,787
woods. This isn't just land. It's a home. A home for the

2758
03:16:00,787 --> 03:16:03,923
animals, a home to me. I do not want to grow up in a place

2759
03:16:03,923 --> 03:16:06,993
where nature is scarce, where it has become an afterthought.

2760
03:16:06,993 --> 03:16:09,462
Please do not take this away from me and from everyone who

2761
03:16:09,462 --> 03:16:14,534
will come after me. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. You have

2762
03:16:14,534 --> 03:16:18,134
two minutes. Hello. Mayor Williams, mayor

2763
03:16:19,206 --> 03:16:21,942
Pro Tem Caballero, rest of the city council. Good evening. I'm

2764
03:16:21,942 --> 03:16:25,211
here tonight to actually speak in favor of this project. I've

2765
03:16:25,211 --> 03:16:28,214
been following City council for a few months now. And keep a

2766
03:16:28,214 --> 03:16:31,840
close eye on what comes through here. Gets approved, etc..

2767
03:16:31,840 --> 03:16:35,154
Thank you. And this is a pretty significant amount of

2768
03:16:35,154 --> 03:16:37,240
properties. I've actually been stuck at that intersection

2769
03:16:37,240 --> 03:16:38,959
before. I don't live in this part of Durham. I live near

2770
03:16:38,959 --> 03:16:42,280
downtown, but I've driven my way out there to go. There's

2771
03:16:42,280 --> 03:16:44,631
various things out there to go and see, and I've been stuck in

2772
03:16:44,631 --> 03:16:47,567
front of that Walgreens. So if this does get approved, I will

2773
03:16:47,567 --> 03:16:49,168
look forward to that intersection being a little

2774
03:16:49,168 --> 03:16:51,905
better. So I appreciate that from the developer. And

2775
03:16:51,905 --> 03:16:54,574
furthermore, this level of proffers is something that this

2776
03:16:54,574 --> 03:16:57,644
council and commentators, even tonight and other meetings,

2777
03:16:57,644 --> 03:17:00,313
have talked at length about wanting to see. I mean, this is

2778
03:17:00,313 --> 03:17:03,250
a significant infrastructure improvement being done by a

2779
03:17:03,250 --> 03:17:06,119
developer right now before the this is this should be the

2780
03:17:06,119 --> 03:17:08,321
state, right? We can all agree this should be the state doing

2781
03:17:08,321 --> 03:17:11,391
this, but it's not. It's going to be in my homes if we approve

2782
03:17:11,391 --> 03:17:15,195
this here tonight. And approving homes that are

2783
03:17:15,195 --> 03:17:17,931
basically suburban area. This is not that rule of an area

2784
03:17:17,931 --> 03:17:20,200
anymore. This area is grown. Durham is growing, Raleigh is

2785
03:17:20,200 --> 03:17:22,469
growing. They're growing together here at 98 and

2786
03:17:22,469 --> 03:17:25,604
southeast Durham. So I do hope you all approve this here

2787
03:17:25,604 --> 03:17:28,280
tonight. I would love to get past that Walgreens a little

2788
03:17:28,280 --> 03:17:30,631
quicker. As to just about everybody who lives over there

2789
03:17:30,631 --> 03:17:33,330
or drives through really commutes to that area, which is

2790
03:17:33,330 --> 03:17:38,639
a source of a lot of the traffic. So thank you.

2791
03:17:38,639 --> 03:17:42,239
Gary. Good evening. My name. Good

2792
03:17:42,643 --> 03:17:46,380
evening, Mayor Williams. And also city council. My name is

2793
03:17:46,380 --> 03:17:49,850
Gary McLean. My address is on file. I've been here numerous

2794
03:17:49,850 --> 03:17:54,187
times. I want to talk about the blasting and the. We're afraid

2795
03:17:54,187 --> 03:17:57,925
of the water. We know it'll be blasting in this, in this area

2796
03:17:57,925 --> 03:18:01,328
that where they're going to develop. And I have a well and

2797
03:18:01,328 --> 03:18:05,666
I know that it disrupts the underground aquifers and wells

2798
03:18:05,666 --> 03:18:08,201
are going dry, homes are getting destroyed and stuff

2799
03:18:08,201 --> 03:18:11,872
like that. The traffic is another thing. It's just

2800
03:18:11,872 --> 03:18:14,675
deadlocked out there at this intersection. I live about two

2801
03:18:14,675 --> 03:18:17,812
miles from it, and I go down Patterson Road every day.

2802
03:18:17,812 --> 03:18:21,281
Stallings road, people are coming from Creedmoor and

2803
03:18:21,281 --> 03:18:24,151
Oxford and everything over to RTP, and they're coming down

2804
03:18:24,151 --> 03:18:27,154
Patterson Road, and that's a two lane secondary road. But

2805
03:18:27,154 --> 03:18:32,559
it's like I-85. I mean, I don't God be with the farmers that

2806
03:18:32,559 --> 03:18:36,630
sit there on the roads with detritus, and it's just I don't

2807
03:18:36,630 --> 03:18:39,366
know what's what's up with y'all's minds because you just

2808
03:18:39,366 --> 03:18:41,902
keep approving these developments and everything.

2809
03:18:41,902 --> 03:18:45,705
And, I mean, we're in a drought right now and it's mid it's mid

2810
03:18:45,705 --> 03:18:50,111
April, early spring. And we're already I think we have 60 days

2811
03:18:50,111 --> 03:18:53,113
worth of water before we go into restrictions. And what are

2812
03:18:53,113 --> 03:18:58,986
we going to do. How are we going to sell 1547 homes right

2813
03:18:58,986 --> 03:19:02,122
now? That's ready to be rented and ready to be bought and

2814
03:19:02,122 --> 03:19:04,191
everything. How are we going to sell it if we don't have water

2815
03:19:04,191 --> 03:19:07,394
out there? You know, I mean, it's just it doesn't make sense

2816
03:19:07,394 --> 03:19:09,997
to me. We just keep building and building and building and

2817
03:19:09,997 --> 03:19:13,867
we don't have an unlimited amount of water. And y'all need

2818
03:19:13,867 --> 03:19:16,137
to think about it, you know, because that's something we've

2819
03:19:16,137 --> 03:19:19,139
got to have to survive. We can we can get by a few days

2820
03:19:19,139 --> 03:19:21,942
without food. But if you don't have water, you ain't going to

2821
03:19:21,942 --> 03:19:23,677
have it. You ain't gonna need sewage, and you ain't going to

2822
03:19:23,677 --> 03:19:29,770
need a whole lot of anything else. Thank you.

2823
03:19:29,883 --> 03:19:35,356
Thank you. Next, I have Donna stand back. Tammy, soya. Toya.

2824
03:19:35,356 --> 03:19:40,156
Pam Williams, Tina motley, Pearson, Pam Andrews. Wanda

2825
03:19:53,107 --> 03:19:56,707
Allen. I'll be. Right back. Oh.

2826
03:20:21,668 --> 03:20:24,672
Hi. My name is Tina motley Pearson, and my address is on

2827
03:20:24,672 --> 03:20:29,477
file. I would first like to highlight that multiple

2828
03:20:29,477 --> 03:20:32,345
required policies have not been met for the Patterson Hall

2829
03:20:32,345 --> 03:20:36,150
project. Notably, the Planning Commission voted 9 to 0 against

2830
03:20:36,150 --> 03:20:41,550
this development policy. 119 has not been satisfied as it

2831
03:20:42,957 --> 03:20:46,694
requires adequate levels of service for emergency response,

2832
03:20:46,694 --> 03:20:50,498
police and overall community safety. This site is bordered

2833
03:20:50,498 --> 03:20:53,330
by Stallings Road on one side and Patterson Road on the

2834
03:20:53,330 --> 03:20:55,903
other. You can see that in the map there. It has been

2835
03:20:55,903 --> 03:20:59,507
suggested that Patterson Road does not require fire service,

2836
03:20:59,507 --> 03:21:03,243
but this is misleading and cherry picking data. Only a

2837
03:21:03,243 --> 03:21:06,113
small area qualifies due to its location to the critical

2838
03:21:06,113 --> 03:21:10,451
watershed. Most of Patterson Road lies outside the urban

2839
03:21:10,451 --> 03:21:14,188
growth area. The selective use of data raises a fundamental

2840
03:21:14,188 --> 03:21:18,192
concern. How can one side of the development require fire

2841
03:21:18,192 --> 03:21:22,620
service while the other side does not? Both the east and

2842
03:21:22,620 --> 03:21:26,262
west sides clearly require adequate fire protection.

2843
03:21:26,867 --> 03:21:30,467
Additionally, policy 122 identifies future growth areas

2844
03:21:31,400 --> 03:21:34,809
where infrastructure and service upgrades are necessary.

2845
03:21:34,809 --> 03:21:38,145
Development in these areas require corresponding public

2846
03:21:38,145 --> 03:21:41,615
infrastructure, while the highlighted areas show a clear

2847
03:21:41,615 --> 03:21:44,218
need for fire service. There are also documented concerns

2848
03:21:44,218 --> 03:21:47,688
regarding sewer capacity. This is not a gray area. The

2849
03:21:47,688 --> 03:21:51,425
policies have not been met. The infrastructure is not in place.

2850
03:21:51,425 --> 03:21:55,363
The risks are real. Approval of this project would be premature

2851
03:21:55,363 --> 03:21:58,963
and irresponsible. Thank you so much.

2852
03:22:00,234 --> 03:22:02,634
Thank you. Miss Andrews.

2853
03:22:05,505 --> 03:22:07,374
Yeah, yeah. Okay, as I wait, maybe you're

2854
03:22:07,374 --> 03:22:09,374
not. Next.

2855
03:22:10,440 --> 03:22:13,113
Good evening, Pamela Andrews. All right. Gotta go fast with

2856
03:22:13,113 --> 03:22:15,449
this. There are two City of Durham fire stations in

2857
03:22:15,449 --> 03:22:18,318
southeast Durham. Station eight and station 17, along with the

2858
03:22:18,318 --> 03:22:21,455
county funded Redwood Volunteer Fire Station. These units will

2859
03:22:21,455 --> 03:22:27,595
respond to calls to over 68 new developments in our area next

2860
03:22:27,595 --> 03:22:30,997
January 2026. The fire equipment got relocated.

2861
03:22:30,997 --> 03:22:34,334
Station 17 lost its ladder truck along with the three

2862
03:22:34,334 --> 03:22:37,338
firefighters that manned that ladder truck. No replacement

2863
03:22:37,338 --> 03:22:40,541
vehicle was put there. We have an engine truck there, a tanker

2864
03:22:40,541 --> 03:22:44,110
truck there for firefighters instead of seven. We lost

2865
03:22:44,110 --> 03:22:48,149
three. Got it. Station eight had a vehicle swap but kept the

2866
03:22:48,149 --> 03:22:52,153
same number of firefighters three. So the net loss three

2867
03:22:52,153 --> 03:22:56,290
firefighters and a ladder truck. Next. Station eight is

2868
03:22:56,290 --> 03:22:59,226
the primary station for this parcel. It has a quint truck, a

2869
03:22:59,226 --> 03:23:02,896
multifunctional truck now with only three total firefighters,

2870
03:23:02,896 --> 03:23:07,501
two bays, no room for EMS. Next, the national response

2871
03:23:07,501 --> 03:23:11,571
time is six minutes and 30s for fire and EMS. Per the national

2872
03:23:11,571 --> 03:23:15,843
code. At 11:29 p.m., when most of the roads are void of

2873
03:23:15,843 --> 03:23:20,447
traffic, a structure fire took place on January 27th of 2026

2874
03:23:20,447 --> 03:23:25,318
at 629 Patterson Road, adjacent to this property. The chart

2875
03:23:25,318 --> 03:23:28,856
shows the actual response times how many of those were within

2876
03:23:28,856 --> 03:23:33,794
the six minutes, and 30s target time. Two Redwood Volunteer

2877
03:23:33,794 --> 03:23:37,217
Fire Station and Quint eight. All the others were not within

2878
03:23:37,217 --> 03:23:40,954
the federal or the national response Time. Numerous units

2879
03:23:40,954 --> 03:23:43,690
are needed to put out a structure fire, not just eight

2880
03:23:43,690 --> 03:23:48,940
and 17. Nine fire trucks were present to put out this fire.

2881
03:23:48,940 --> 03:23:51,497
Two tanker trucks never made it there. The tanker trucks were

2882
03:23:51,497 --> 03:23:54,768
needed because this is county and we don't have fire hydrants

2883
03:23:54,768 --> 03:23:58,638
in the county. Total time of the fire call two hours and 12

2884
03:23:58,638 --> 03:24:02,909
minutes in the 2022 audit, the Durham response time. It was

2885
03:24:02,909 --> 03:24:05,845
stated in a fire, there is one thing that matters more than

2886
03:24:05,845 --> 03:24:09,382
any other thing. Response times a few minutes could be the

2887
03:24:09,382 --> 03:24:13,186
difference between preserving life and property, and someone

2888
03:24:13,186 --> 03:24:17,386
dying. Thank you very much. Thank you.

2889
03:24:20,260 --> 03:24:23,196
Tammy Sawyer, my address is on file.

2890
03:24:23,196 --> 03:24:24,931
I want to go. And expand.

2891
03:24:24,931 --> 03:24:27,933
On what Pam. Was just talking about. Fire me

2892
03:24:27,933 --> 03:24:29,536
and Ms.. We don't have. infrastructure

2893
03:24:29,536 --> 03:24:34,407
here. Just tonight on social media. a former planning

2894
03:24:34,407 --> 03:24:39,807
commissioner personnel noted that he had a cardiac incident

2895
03:24:40,800 --> 03:24:45,840
in October. He is near Leesville Road and station 17

2896
03:24:45,840 --> 03:24:49,220
responded. Those EMTs that responded are now in station

2897
03:24:49,220 --> 03:24:54,293
eight. If he if EMS or nobody was available to respond, the

2898
03:24:54,293 --> 03:24:57,960
outcome could have been different. And that's one of

2899
03:24:57,960 --> 03:25:01,296
your fellow planning commissioners. EMS, we talked

2900
03:25:02,902 --> 03:25:07,106
about how it's in the county. The county runs it. It has

2901
03:25:07,106 --> 03:25:10,844
never been evaluated. It's still not being evaluated here.

2902
03:25:10,844 --> 03:25:13,513
So some of the recent posts that I want to make you aware

2903
03:25:13,513 --> 03:25:17,784
of, there was a carnival here in Durham. There was a person

2904
03:25:17,784 --> 03:25:22,856
having multiple seizures at a at a carnival at 950. No EMS

2905
03:25:22,856 --> 03:25:26,393
available asking person. Wake County and Grenville County to

2906
03:25:26,393 --> 03:25:30,930
respond. Also at the carnival, a ten year old was having a

2907
03:25:30,930 --> 03:25:35,100
heat stroke. The police was in was with this child. They were

2908
03:25:35,100 --> 03:25:41,140
asking for EMS to help. There was no EMS there. Police, as

2909
03:25:41,140 --> 03:25:45,780
you know, we are short on police and there's a 12 minute

2910
03:25:45,780 --> 03:25:49,348
drive to get there. And coming from that way, there's still no

2911
03:25:49,348 --> 03:25:52,948
infrastructure or transportation plans to widen

2912
03:25:53,152 --> 03:25:59,752
that so that the police could get to Patterson Road sewer

2913
03:25:59,759 --> 03:26:03,896
capacity. We know that the lift station, that little creek is

2914
03:26:03,896 --> 03:26:08,768
close to capacity. PRD has been tracking approval dwellings, so

2915
03:26:08,768 --> 03:26:12,968
there's almost 3500 approved dwellings, not permitted yet.

2916
03:26:15,375 --> 03:26:19,913
And you're going to be adding more. Y back to the development

2917
03:26:19,913 --> 03:26:22,982
of growth. Why do we need it? This is the future growth area.

2918
03:26:22,982 --> 03:26:27,182
We don't need it now. Thank you.

2919
03:26:31,570 --> 03:26:33,793
Good afternoon. My name is Pam Williams and I'm going to go

2920
03:26:33,793 --> 03:26:35,795
through these slides pretty fast because you've already

2921
03:26:35,795 --> 03:26:40,133
heard about all the congestion in the area here on Stallings

2922
03:26:40,133 --> 03:26:44,471
Road, which is this road right here, a 1200. Oops. Right

2923
03:26:44,471 --> 03:26:49,750
there. Right there, 1200 linear feet of cars was backed up on

2924
03:26:49,750 --> 03:26:52,612
this during the week. And it's like that almost every day.

2925
03:26:52,612 --> 03:26:55,815
Think about 1200 cars on the single lane road trying to get

2926
03:26:55,815 --> 03:27:01,215
through this congestion. Here again is 98. And the congestion

2927
03:27:02,555 --> 03:27:06,755
98, 98. Here's Stallings and Patterson Road and the

2928
03:27:06,760 --> 03:27:09,896
congestion and the big trucks coming through trying to make

2929
03:27:09,896 --> 03:27:14,300
those turns here. I want to bring to everyone's attention

2930
03:27:14,300 --> 03:27:20,106
at the City Council. Those especially who's on the TPI.

2931
03:27:20,106 --> 03:27:24,778
Board. And if you have any influence, this is a project

2932
03:27:24,778 --> 03:27:29,649
that has been proposed since 2018. In the corridor study

2933
03:27:29,649 --> 03:27:35,388
that was done by Campo and Durham MPO, also in 2022, a

2934
03:27:35,388 --> 03:27:38,858
traffic forecast was done on the same project, and I have

2935
03:27:38,858 --> 03:27:41,794
highlighted the project in yellow so you could see what

2936
03:27:41,794 --> 03:27:45,197
they proposed for the realignment. And this is

2937
03:27:45,197 --> 03:27:48,000
needed. It's just not us here in the community saying it's

2938
03:27:48,000 --> 03:27:53,807
needed. NCDOT is saying it's needed. Campo and the MPO or

2939
03:27:53,807 --> 03:27:57,744
the TPO now say here is Patterson Hall. As you can see,

2940
03:27:57,744 --> 03:28:03,744
this comes across on that. So traffic congestion, the this

2941
03:28:05,819 --> 03:28:10,356
project has regional impact and additional peak flow traffic

2942
03:28:10,356 --> 03:28:17,556
has impacts not measured here. So you just we just want the

2943
03:28:18,298 --> 03:28:22,235
city, the county to get in and understand that this is a

2944
03:28:22,235 --> 03:28:26,105
problem in this area. We need help from our city officials

2945
03:28:26,105 --> 03:28:30,376
and our county officials to get a project like this done to

2946
03:28:30,376 --> 03:28:33,376
improve this horrible intersection. Traffic

2947
03:28:34,446 --> 03:28:38,646
congestion and crashes. Thank you. Thank you.

2948
03:28:41,387 --> 03:28:44,790
Mayor Steinbeck. Good evening. I'm Donna

2949
03:28:44,790 --> 03:28:47,790
Steinbeck, addresses on file. The.

2950
03:28:48,461 --> 03:28:54,200
This proposed site is less. Than one mile from several

2951
03:28:54,200 --> 03:29:00,139
volunteer ag districts, and present use value farms and the

2952
03:29:00,139 --> 03:29:04,143
they're highlighted in red. There are many small farms that

2953
03:29:04,143 --> 03:29:09,415
are not shown the the planning staff consistency review did

2954
03:29:09,415 --> 03:29:13,553
not reflect the land use conflicts and the rural

2955
03:29:13,553 --> 03:29:18,353
impacts, or the non-contiguous status. The density is

2956
03:29:18,891 --> 03:29:23,910
significantly higher than surrounding areas all around

2957
03:29:23,562 --> 03:29:30,360
are up and down. Patterson road is single family homes and and

2958
03:29:30,360 --> 03:29:35,410
and farms. There are not any dense developments. The densest

2959
03:29:35,410 --> 03:29:39,841
development that's nearby is 1.53. Units per acre. While

2960
03:29:45,510 --> 03:29:51,510
this is proposed to be 4.7, so per the Planning Commissioner

2961
03:29:51,942 --> 03:29:54,277
Co-Chair. Cameron, this location

2962
03:29:54,277 --> 03:29:58,150
continues to face documented persistent changes, including

2963
03:29:58,150 --> 03:30:02,620
well water disruption to the existing company residents and

2964
03:30:02,620 --> 03:30:05,956
increase in unsafe traffic for agricultural operations.

2965
03:30:05,956 --> 03:30:09,960
General traffic congestion that impedes emergency response

2966
03:30:09,960 --> 03:30:14,760
times and environmental. The degradation. There are no

2967
03:30:17,968 --> 03:30:22,906
townhouses either on on Stalin's road, so this proposal

2968
03:30:22,906 --> 03:30:27,244
would not maintain its rural character. So the Comprehensive

2969
03:30:27,244 --> 03:30:33,244
Plan policy 120 is not met. Policy 47 is not met. Since

2970
03:30:33,317 --> 03:30:38,389
this policy does not satisfy through size and form respect,

2971
03:30:38,389 --> 03:30:43,789
the existing neighborhood character, it does not. Yes, I

2972
03:30:44,995 --> 03:30:50,395
the of course, major concern. This is non-contiguous and.

2973
03:30:52,269 --> 03:30:55,940
Thank you. The policy 165 is not met

2974
03:30:55,940 --> 03:31:01,345
because it's not needed. It's not a benefit to the residents.

2975
03:31:01,345 --> 03:31:04,345
Thank you. Thank. Thank you.

2976
03:31:06,160 --> 03:31:07,951
Before you start, just I want to go ahead and call the last

2977
03:31:07,951 --> 03:31:10,870
because I just have a couple minutes after Miss Allen. I

2978
03:31:10,870 --> 03:31:13,357
have Vicki King, Astrid Cook, Pablo Friedman and Talmage

2979
03:31:13,357 --> 03:31:18,495
Leighton. Those are the folks. And then that that rounds us

2980
03:31:18,495 --> 03:31:20,698
up. Thank you. Miss. No problem. Hi.

2981
03:31:20,698 --> 03:31:22,767
I'm Wanda Allen. And.

2982
03:31:22,767 --> 03:31:26,837
Address is on file. I'd like for you to look at this slide.

2983
03:31:26,837 --> 03:31:31,375
This site includes multiple stream crossings that drain

2984
03:31:31,375 --> 03:31:36,513
directly into Little Creek into falls. Like Raleigh's drinking

2985
03:31:36,513 --> 03:31:41,313
water. Both are already impaired. Water listed for

2986
03:31:42,720 --> 03:31:48,120
settlement and water pollution. Yet this proposal relies on

2987
03:31:48,658 --> 03:31:52,930
minimum stormwater standards that are already failing in the

2988
03:31:52,930 --> 03:31:57,735
areas like this, especially with steep slopes and highly

2989
03:31:57,735 --> 03:32:02,535
unstable Triassic soil. The results are predictable. More

2990
03:32:02,673 --> 03:32:07,473
settlement, more pollution, more stress on already impaired

2991
03:32:08,120 --> 03:32:12,816
water sources. Look at this slide. It's basically saying

2992
03:32:12,816 --> 03:32:19,423
over 60% of this site has steep slopes to build. Here. The land

2993
03:32:19,423 --> 03:32:24,161
must be heavily graded and cleared. Disturbing large areas

2994
03:32:24,161 --> 03:32:29,300
of fragile store. Get it? You guys disturbed Triassic soil.

2995
03:32:29,300 --> 03:32:33,437
You get runoff sediment pollution. Every time we've

2996
03:32:33,437 --> 03:32:38,175
seen it across southeast Durham. Look at this one false

2997
03:32:38,175 --> 03:32:43,381
lake impact. The settlement is already reducing false lake

2998
03:32:43,381 --> 03:32:48,181
water storage. That means weaker flood controls, less

2999
03:32:48,318 --> 03:32:53,718
reliable, less reliable water supply. Simply put, you cannot

3000
03:32:53,790 --> 03:32:58,596
manage water and increasing settlement at the same time. Or

3001
03:32:58,596 --> 03:33:02,650
if the lake is filled with sediment, you can't fill it

3002
03:33:02,650 --> 03:33:06,871
with water. As we have seen in many of these photos. Best

3003
03:33:06,871 --> 03:33:10,741
management practices are not working. You guys are not

3004
03:33:10,741 --> 03:33:14,945
working. Approving this project or proposed will increase

3005
03:33:14,945 --> 03:33:19,350
sediment and pollution into an already stressed water supply.

3006
03:33:19,350 --> 03:33:21,750
Thank you. Thank you.

3007
03:33:27,692 --> 03:33:33,920
Vicki King. Hi, my name is Vicki King. My

3008
03:33:37,168 --> 03:33:41,905
address is on file. I'm here once again to ask do not pass

3009
03:33:41,905 --> 03:33:46,109
this development. You must and I repeat, you must have the

3010
03:33:46,109 --> 03:33:51,449
appropriate number of fire apparatus to make sure that the

3011
03:33:51,449 --> 03:33:57,320
ISO ratings are covered. ISO ratings are very important when

3012
03:33:57,320 --> 03:34:02,192
you're having to pay for your homeowner's insurance. Keep all

3013
03:34:02,192 --> 03:34:06,730
that in mind. The traffic is a nightmare. It's already been

3014
03:34:06,730 --> 03:34:12,130
covered. The developer has made a thoughtful effort into

3015
03:34:13,337 --> 03:34:17,407
improving that intersection, but it's not. I'm not sure it's

3016
03:34:17,407 --> 03:34:22,612
going to do any good. It's my understanding the Oak Grove

3017
03:34:22,612 --> 03:34:26,617
Athletic Association was a private park. It's been a

3018
03:34:26,617 --> 03:34:32,890
private park all my life. It's not open to the general public.

3019
03:34:32,890 --> 03:34:35,559
I think you have to be a member to use that park. But my

3020
03:34:35,559 --> 03:34:39,290
questions and the questions of the citizens of Durham still

3021
03:34:39,290 --> 03:34:43,567
stand. What's Durham going to do when you run out of water?

3022
03:34:43,567 --> 03:34:47,971
What's Durham going to do when 911 doesn't answer? Where are

3023
03:34:47,971 --> 03:34:52,909
you going to put all that crap that you're letting the pumps

3024
03:34:52,909 --> 03:34:58,309
pump back in to the sewer system? Thank you.

3025
03:35:07,724 --> 03:35:10,994
My name is Astrid. Cooke and my address is on

3026
03:35:10,994 --> 03:35:14,131
record. And I'm speaking on behalf of the Durham City

3027
03:35:14,131 --> 03:35:16,934
County Environmental Affairs Board, Land Use and Planning

3028
03:35:16,934 --> 03:35:22,272
subcommittee. I'll lead with our proffers. In short, we do

3029
03:35:22,272 --> 03:35:27,211
not support this proposal as is boat would with the following

3030
03:35:27,211 --> 03:35:30,280
textual commitments. Preservation of tree coverage.

3031
03:35:30,280 --> 03:35:34,951
At a minimum of 35%. Canopy across the site. Commitment to

3032
03:35:34,951 --> 03:35:38,822
all preserve tree coverage to be contiguous to avoid

3033
03:35:38,822 --> 03:35:42,422
fragmentation and maintain ecological function. Stream

3034
03:35:42,960 --> 03:35:46,290
buffers and wetlands on site shall remain fully undisturbed

3035
03:35:46,290 --> 03:35:49,299
with no crossings except where necessary, and no sewer

3036
03:35:49,299 --> 03:35:52,899
crossings. Incorporation of distributed low impact

3037
03:35:53,103 --> 03:35:56,103
development strategies, including infiltration, bio

3038
03:35:56,440 --> 03:36:00,594
retention and dispersion to minimize concentrated discharge

3039
03:36:00,594 --> 03:36:04,398
into Little Lick Creek and its tributaries. These strategies

3040
03:36:04,398 --> 03:36:06,734
shall be supported by construction practices that

3041
03:36:06,734 --> 03:36:10,334
minimize subsurface disturbance and sediment mobilization,

3042
03:36:10,404 --> 03:36:13,741
including a prohibition on blasting across the site.

3043
03:36:13,741 --> 03:36:17,478
Implementation of turbidity monitoring during and after

3044
03:36:17,478 --> 03:36:20,815
construction to assess impacts to little at creek, with

3045
03:36:20,815 --> 03:36:24,485
results made available to the city. Commitment to stormwater

3046
03:36:24,485 --> 03:36:27,288
containment and control during construction, including

3047
03:36:27,288 --> 03:36:30,357
management of runoff from large storm events prior to final

3048
03:36:30,357 --> 03:36:33,357
enforcement. Infrastructure installation. Commitment to

3049
03:36:33,961 --> 03:36:37,231
limiting impervious surface and building envelope to additional

3050
03:36:37,231 --> 03:36:42,360
setback of 100ft from the stream. Buffers and a site

3051
03:36:42,360 --> 03:36:44,971
specific erosion and sedimentation control control

3052
03:36:44,971 --> 03:36:47,574
strategy prepared by a qualified professional that

3053
03:36:47,574 --> 03:36:50,377
explicitly addresses the behavior of Triassic basin

3054
03:36:50,377 --> 03:36:53,113
soils, including phased grading, rapid soil

3055
03:36:53,113 --> 03:36:57,385
stabilization, and redundant control measures. Oh, I have a

3056
03:36:57,385 --> 03:37:00,654
little bit more time. The proposed level of tree

3057
03:37:00,654 --> 03:37:03,991
preservation is an area of concern. While the inclusion of

3058
03:37:03,991 --> 03:37:06,193
tree preservation and replacement is noted and

3059
03:37:06,193 --> 03:37:09,397
appreciated, the overall canopy coverage remains lower than

3060
03:37:09,397 --> 03:37:12,997
Durham's stated goal of 55%. Thank you.

3061
03:37:14,668 --> 03:37:20,680
Thank you. Good evening. All right. Good evening, Mayor.

3062
03:37:31,752 --> 03:37:34,488
Williams Mayor Pro Tem Caballero. Members of the city

3063
03:37:34,488 --> 03:37:37,290
council, city manager, those in the audience and the millions

3064
03:37:37,290 --> 03:37:40,828
of viewers online who care about good governance. I'm here

3065
03:37:40,828 --> 03:37:45,433
tonight to speak against the proposal for. That's before you

3066
03:37:45,433 --> 03:37:48,235
tonight. And I want to go back to two meetings ago. Two

3067
03:37:48,235 --> 03:37:51,439
meetings ago. The expectation. I'm sorry. One moment. Madam

3068
03:37:51,439 --> 03:37:53,974
clerk, can you please. Thank you.

3069
03:37:53,974 --> 03:37:58,245
We're good. All right, all right. Two meetings ago. The

3070
03:37:58,245 --> 03:38:02,450
expectation from developers was a proffer of $500 per net

3071
03:38:02,450 --> 03:38:06,320
student to the school. And that was the expectation. Okay, the

3072
03:38:06,320 --> 03:38:09,550
lawyer representing the applicant at the last meeting

3073
03:38:09,550 --> 03:38:11,859
sort of said, okay, I'm going to bump it up $100 to 600.

3074
03:38:11,859 --> 03:38:14,610
That's good. I believe in public goods and all. I know

3075
03:38:14,610 --> 03:38:16,797
all of you do as well. By the end of that meeting, thanks to

3076
03:38:16,797 --> 03:38:21,201
the comments and advocacy of Council Member Kopac, it went

3077
03:38:21,201 --> 03:38:25,139
up to $1,000, which is great for the public good, right? And

3078
03:38:25,139 --> 03:38:29,342
now at the same meeting, same or sorry, tonight's meeting,

3079
03:38:29,342 --> 03:38:33,147
same lawyer, new app, new proposal. It's now ballooned

3080
03:38:33,147 --> 03:38:38,552
per per net pupil $1,666. According to my mouse, it's a

3081
03:38:38,552 --> 03:38:41,222
bit higher than what she said earlier, which is great for

3082
03:38:41,222 --> 03:38:44,825
public schools. But when talk about the expectation that

3083
03:38:44,825 --> 03:38:49,296
should now be the the floor, okay, the proposal after this

3084
03:38:49,296 --> 03:38:52,833
one, the per and I know they're going to talk about what

3085
03:38:52,833 --> 03:38:56,971
they're going to do. But if you divide the $50,000 proffer by

3086
03:38:56,971 --> 03:39:01,175
the net 14 students, you're looking at a net profit of

3087
03:39:01,175 --> 03:39:05,450
$3,000 per student. So in the span of a couple meetings here

3088
03:39:05,450 --> 03:39:09,649
in this governing body, we've gone from 500 to $3000 to

3089
03:39:09,649 --> 03:39:12,987
applicants. That needs to be the expectation for when we

3090
03:39:12,987 --> 03:39:15,456
talk about new developments, what we're going to approve.

3091
03:39:15,456 --> 03:39:18,580
Right. And I hope that becomes the floor that the applicant

3092
03:39:18,580 --> 03:39:21,328
tonight agrees to, because the one right after it is offering

3093
03:39:21,328 --> 03:39:25,533
$3,000 per net student. And all of you care about public

3094
03:39:25,533 --> 03:39:28,201
schools up on there. And so I would hope you do everything

3095
03:39:28,201 --> 03:39:34,801
that you can for our public schools. Thank you very much.

3096
03:39:38,946 --> 03:39:44,346
Thank you. Good. Finish it out. Okay. Thank you.

3097
03:39:45,151 --> 03:39:48,822
Good evening. But my name is Talmage Layton.

3098
03:39:48,822 --> 03:39:55,229
I farm in this area, and over the years I have had five farms

3099
03:39:55,229 --> 03:40:01,301
on Patterson Road and it is really hard to get equipment up

3100
03:40:01,301 --> 03:40:04,370
the road with the kind of traffic y'all are talking about

3101
03:40:04,370 --> 03:40:10,844
providing for us up there. Also, Sharon Road is across the

3102
03:40:10,844 --> 03:40:14,782
intersection of 98. Patterson had two farms over there that I

3103
03:40:14,782 --> 03:40:20,782
attended up until this year, and we were getting about 200

3104
03:40:21,540 --> 03:40:25,191
round bales a year off of them, off of one of them, and about a

3105
03:40:25,191 --> 03:40:30,591
thousand bales of square bales. Well, two, 200 round bales

3106
03:40:31,331 --> 03:40:36,731
would bring in $50 apiece. So we were getting about $6,000

3107
03:40:36,937 --> 03:40:42,142
out of those that farm. And we got about a thousand square

3108
03:40:42,142 --> 03:40:47,281
bales off of it. It sold for $7 a bale, which is $7,000 for

3109
03:40:47,281 --> 03:40:52,552
that one. But anyway, the what y'all are doing to the rural

3110
03:40:52,552 --> 03:40:59,752
area right here is, is tragic. Also, I have in my possession

3111
03:41:00,930 --> 03:41:05,632
at home two studies that were done, one in Durham and one in

3112
03:41:05,632 --> 03:41:12,706
Wake County, and those studies showed what was taken in by the

3113
03:41:12,706 --> 03:41:16,643
city for three different types of land in the city. One was

3114
03:41:16,643 --> 03:41:21,381
commercial, one was residential, and one was rural

3115
03:41:21,381 --> 03:41:26,653
farmland. The rural farmland. For every dollar in taxes we

3116
03:41:26,653 --> 03:41:31,859
paid, the county made about $0.40 a dollar for each dollar

3117
03:41:31,859 --> 03:41:36,620
we paid on taxes. The development land cost the

3118
03:41:36,620 --> 03:41:42,620
county in services about a dollar $0.40 a dollar for taxes,

3119
03:41:43,604 --> 03:41:48,404
and the commercial property made about $0.30 per dollar.

3120
03:41:48,942 --> 03:41:52,946
And I don't see how we can continue to do this without the

3121
03:41:52,946 --> 03:41:56,350
county going broke with the way we are. We're doing development

3122
03:41:56,350 --> 03:42:00,860
land. If it's costing you a half a dollar for every dollar

3123
03:42:00,860 --> 03:42:04,240
you're taking in. So I appreciate y'all's time. And I

3124
03:42:04,240 --> 03:42:07,294
saved a little bit of time for my passing and I appreciate it.

3125
03:42:07,294 --> 03:42:12,940
Thank you all. Thank you. What you do.

3126
03:42:14,500 --> 03:42:16,453
Mr. mayor, do you want to take back over? Do you want me to

3127
03:42:16,453 --> 03:42:21,191
keep going? All right. Thank you. So those

3128
03:42:21,191 --> 03:42:26,463
are all of the speakers that we have signed up for this, and

3129
03:42:26,463 --> 03:42:31,601
we'll just. The applicant, would you like to respond?

3130
03:42:31,601 --> 03:42:36,873
Yes. I just briefly, we would like to address some of the

3131
03:42:36,873 --> 03:42:40,677
comments made about the future growth area. The transportation

3132
03:42:40,677 --> 03:42:43,790
improvement and then the consistency with the

3133
03:42:43,790 --> 03:42:49,790
surrounding area and the city's plans, the future growth areas.

3134
03:42:49,486 --> 03:42:52,688
It sounds like there is some misunderstanding of what those

3135
03:42:52,688 --> 03:42:55,491
are and how they apply to this site. So to be clear, the

3136
03:42:55,491 --> 03:42:58,961
future growth areas are located within the urban growth

3137
03:42:58,961 --> 03:43:02,231
boundaries. And according to the comprehensive plan, are

3138
03:43:02,231 --> 03:43:05,702
areas that are appropriate for development. Once certain

3139
03:43:05,702 --> 03:43:09,371
identified infrastructure is upgraded to serve new

3140
03:43:09,371 --> 03:43:11,908
development. So the comprehensive plan says that

3141
03:43:11,908 --> 03:43:16,913
this could be provided by city planning funded by a CIP, or by

3142
03:43:16,913 --> 03:43:20,583
private investment. And this is why policy 166 of the

3143
03:43:20,583 --> 03:43:24,520
Comprehensive Plan calls for the future growth areas to be

3144
03:43:24,520 --> 03:43:28,658
evaluated for updates, either to be added or to be removed

3145
03:43:28,658 --> 03:43:32,620
every other year based on public investments, housing

3146
03:43:32,620 --> 03:43:35,931
supply and population growth. And so all of that is to say

3147
03:43:35,931 --> 03:43:38,935
that it is not a static designation. And based on

3148
03:43:38,935 --> 03:43:42,405
private investment, the designation can be removed and

3149
03:43:42,405 --> 03:43:45,941
should be removed according to the comprehensive plan. To be

3150
03:43:45,941 --> 03:43:49,120
clear, sewer, the only identified infrastructure

3151
03:43:49,120 --> 03:43:52,815
needed for growth for this future growth area is sewer,

3152
03:43:52,815 --> 03:43:57,220
not fire, and this project will again build a lift station and

3153
03:43:57,220 --> 03:44:01,691
connect to gravity sewer. Installing road and will

3154
03:44:01,691 --> 03:44:04,694
provide an opportunity for other projects to connect

3155
03:44:04,694 --> 03:44:08,698
consistent with policy. 122 there are five out of eight of

3156
03:44:08,698 --> 03:44:12,168
the future growth areas that were shown on screen earlier

3157
03:44:12,168 --> 03:44:15,438
that identify fire. And again, this is just not one of them.

3158
03:44:15,438 --> 03:44:19,242
So that is incorrect to say that that is an identified one

3159
03:44:19,242 --> 03:44:23,312
for this for this area, staff has also found this request is

3160
03:44:23,312 --> 03:44:26,983
consistent with policy 119 of the Comprehensive Plan, which

3161
03:44:26,983 --> 03:44:30,186
does call for new developments to be within established levels

3162
03:44:30,186 --> 03:44:34,457
of service for emergency services. Now, as it relates to

3163
03:44:34,457 --> 03:44:38,728
the transportation improvement, we would defer to staff, but it

3164
03:44:38,728 --> 03:44:42,865
is our understanding that there are no plan projects to address

3165
03:44:42,865 --> 03:44:46,336
issues at this intersection currently. And so without

3166
03:44:46,336 --> 03:44:49,873
private investment, improvements will not occur.

3167
03:44:49,873 --> 03:44:53,209
The realignment of Stallings Road that was mentioned is no

3168
03:44:53,209 --> 03:44:56,613
longer on the plans, because it is our understanding that it is

3169
03:44:56,613 --> 03:45:01,885
not funded. Again, this project is only anticipated to impact

3170
03:45:01,885 --> 03:45:06,689
the intersection less than 5%, and Ddot has confirmed that

3171
03:45:06,689 --> 03:45:10,930
this would improve the traffic flows at the intersection. We

3172
03:45:10,930 --> 03:45:13,290
recognize that this will not improve everything, but this

3173
03:45:13,290 --> 03:45:16,899
will improve the operation of the intersection as it exists

3174
03:45:16,899 --> 03:45:21,370
currently, and then finally, just to address consistency

3175
03:45:21,370 --> 03:45:24,373
with the surrounding area and the city's plans, this project

3176
03:45:24,373 --> 03:45:29,379
is within close proximity to existing food and retail that

3177
03:45:29,379 --> 03:45:31,647
exists right at that intersection that we are

3178
03:45:31,647 --> 03:45:35,317
discussing. It is again adjacent to city limits. The

3179
03:45:35,317 --> 03:45:38,788
city's place type map calls for the site to be a mixed use

3180
03:45:38,788 --> 03:45:42,324
neighborhood, and it was mentioned that there is no

3181
03:45:42,324 --> 03:45:46,929
density that is comparable. But If you look at attachment A of

3182
03:45:46,929 --> 03:45:51,133
the staff report, you can clearly see that there is PDR

3183
03:45:51,133 --> 03:45:56,472
10.602 just off of Wake Forest Highway. And that project is

3184
03:45:56,472 --> 03:45:59,475
currently under construction. So it is not true to say that

3185
03:45:59,475 --> 03:46:02,478
this is higher than any of the other density in the

3186
03:46:02,478 --> 03:46:06,215
surrounding area. Finally, I would just note that we are

3187
03:46:06,215 --> 03:46:09,152
again providing that 30 foot buffer around the entire

3188
03:46:09,152 --> 03:46:13,822
project, which will help keep the character of the

3189
03:46:13,822 --> 03:46:16,826
surrounding area. So thank you again for your time and our

3190
03:46:16,826 --> 03:46:20,426
team is available to answer questions.

3191
03:46:23,320 --> 03:46:26,702
Thank you. Those are all the speakers that I have for this

3192
03:46:26,702 --> 03:46:29,972
case. So therefore I will declare the public hearing

3193
03:46:29,972 --> 03:46:33,642
closed and back before the Council. All right. Council

3194
03:46:33,642 --> 03:46:36,379
Member Burris kicking us off. I have a question for the

3195
03:46:36,379 --> 03:46:42,379
applicant. Did I forget my question? Okay, so based on

3196
03:46:43,585 --> 03:46:46,188
what you discussed tonight, you have offered a proffers around

3197
03:46:46,188 --> 03:46:51,588
affordable housing as either 5%. At 80% Ami or the 285,000 for

3198
03:46:53,462 --> 03:46:56,198
the dedicated housing funds. So are you basically asking for

3199
03:46:56,198 --> 03:46:59,335
council to provide guidance on which of those offers? Or like,

3200
03:46:59,335 --> 03:47:01,537
how would we plan to move through that or work through

3201
03:47:01,537 --> 03:47:05,141
that? So the the reason that we put

3202
03:47:05,141 --> 03:47:10,880
the commitment as it is, is essentially to ensure that the

3203
03:47:10,880 --> 03:47:14,750
project is ultimately able to deliver the units that have

3204
03:47:14,750 --> 03:47:17,754
been committed to. So because we have committed to the

3205
03:47:17,754 --> 03:47:20,754
$700,000 transportation improvement, we have committed

3206
03:47:22,225 --> 03:47:24,627
to the increased amount to Durham Public Schools. The

3207
03:47:24,627 --> 03:47:29,980
total investment here is $1 million. When the density of

3208
03:47:29,980 --> 03:47:33,169
this project is only 150 units. And so we have put in that

3209
03:47:33,169 --> 03:47:37,973
flexibility of the donation or the 5% to make sure that this

3210
03:47:37,973 --> 03:47:41,510
project ultimately pencils. Well, I think that wasn't my

3211
03:47:41,510 --> 03:47:44,780
question. I was asking like, are you asking council to

3212
03:47:44,780 --> 03:47:48,250
provide directive on which option, like which way to go.?

3213
03:47:48,250 --> 03:47:50,720
If there is directive that council wants to provide, we

3214
03:47:50,720 --> 03:47:52,721
will certainly take that feedback. Yes.

3215
03:47:52,721 --> 03:47:56,590
Okay. And then do you have like what the price point for the

3216
03:47:56,590 --> 03:48:00,630
townhomes would be. So the price points for the

3217
03:48:00,630 --> 03:48:05,134
homes would be consistent with the surrounding area. I think

3218
03:48:05,134 --> 03:48:09,671
townhomes in this area right now are around high 300 to low

3219
03:48:09,671 --> 03:48:12,541
for hundreds. And then the single family homes are around

3220
03:48:12,541 --> 03:48:16,957
mid 400 to low 500. Okay. Thank you so much. I

3221
03:48:16,957 --> 03:48:19,426
won't be long. I don't have any additional questions for you so

3222
03:48:19,426 --> 03:48:25,299
that's fine for this. And I'll be brief in my remarks. No. At

3223
03:48:25,299 --> 03:48:27,835
this point, our neighbors in this portion of Durham had

3224
03:48:27,835 --> 03:48:31,505
experience in insane amount of growth, and at some point,

3225
03:48:31,505 --> 03:48:34,708
someone's be the adult in the room and acknowledged like

3226
03:48:34,708 --> 03:48:37,377
that. This corridor is terrible, especially when going

3227
03:48:37,377 --> 03:48:39,713
to the distillery off of stall. I'm going to say Stallings is

3228
03:48:39,713 --> 03:48:42,782
pronounce it more. So just thinking about the traffic

3229
03:48:42,782 --> 03:48:45,853
incidents and just I don't know, I'm just kind of curious

3230
03:48:45,853 --> 03:48:49,323
about where we're headed with this abundance. Thinking about

3231
03:48:49,323 --> 03:48:52,926
just yeah, I'm curious about that. I think that we have to

3232
03:48:52,926 --> 03:48:55,262
be good neighbors. And I know that a lot of times in Durham,

3233
03:48:55,262 --> 03:48:58,264
we try to encourage folks to like, you know, shop local or

3234
03:48:58,264 --> 03:49:01,100
go to farmer's market, but then we mistreat the actual farmers

3235
03:49:01,100 --> 03:49:03,871
that are actually delivering the food to our table. So I

3236
03:49:03,871 --> 03:49:06,407
just want to make sure that I know someone talked about

3237
03:49:06,407 --> 03:49:08,876
earlier, you know, I won't get through that light a little

3238
03:49:08,876 --> 03:49:11,678
faster, but it's like also, while that may be a benefit for

3239
03:49:11,678 --> 03:49:14,810
you and you don't live in that neighborhood, we do have a very

3240
03:49:14,810 --> 03:49:18,170
real issue with EMS services, with fire being able to get to

3241
03:49:18,170 --> 03:49:20,554
these places. So it's like, are we setting our new neighbors up

3242
03:49:20,554 --> 03:49:24,892
for failure by not having the infrastructure to move forward?

3243
03:49:24,892 --> 03:49:27,828
And also based on some of the issues I've observed, even when

3244
03:49:27,828 --> 03:49:32,365
I ran in 2023 with the blasting in the wells, and it's kind of

3245
03:49:32,365 --> 03:49:35,969
hard to get accountability for, I know I had someone who had

3246
03:49:35,969 --> 03:49:38,172
their septic tank blown up and they didn't get anything. So I

3247
03:49:38,172 --> 03:49:41,909
feel like if we want to be welcoming, we gotta take care

3248
03:49:41,909 --> 03:49:44,244
of the people who currently live here. And I have not been

3249
03:49:44,244 --> 03:49:47,314
convinced that we and it's not to the developer more so I

3250
03:49:47,314 --> 03:49:50,316
think as a city we could do a lot better with ensuring that

3251
03:49:50,316 --> 03:49:53,787
our residents have access to critical services. I would hate

3252
03:49:53,787 --> 03:49:56,322
for someone to lose their life because the EMS could get down.

3253
03:49:56,322 --> 03:49:58,659
I know this would be true because I was in Cornwallis the

3254
03:49:58,659 --> 03:50:01,728
other week and we called for an EMS. It took 30 minutes for the

3255
03:50:01,728 --> 03:50:04,131
EMS to get there. This person passed out sitting on the

3256
03:50:04,131 --> 03:50:07,400
ground. So these are very real stories and people are not

3257
03:50:07,400 --> 03:50:10,337
coming to council to fabricate stories about their experience.

3258
03:50:10,337 --> 03:50:13,206
And so at some point, we have to acknowledge the experiences

3259
03:50:13,206 --> 03:50:17,143
of others and put our own wants and desires aside to make sure

3260
03:50:17,143 --> 03:50:19,346
that we are being good stewards for all of our residents here

3261
03:50:19,346 --> 03:50:21,281
in Durham. And I have not been convinced that we have done

3262
03:50:21,281 --> 03:50:24,752
this thus far. I get it folks want to build more housing. You

3263
03:50:24,752 --> 03:50:26,954
think that it makes it easier for people to assess the house

3264
03:50:26,954 --> 03:50:30,900
as unsuccessful for housing is not? I mean, it's just the

3265
03:50:30,900 --> 03:50:32,492
world we end. So thank you so much for all tonight. And I'm

3266
03:50:32,492 --> 03:50:35,695
sorry to be brash, but I just don't see how this is going to

3267
03:50:35,695 --> 03:50:39,366
add any benefit to the public good for these neighbors who

3268
03:50:39,366 --> 03:50:43,103
are constantly going through the ebbs and flows of growth

3269
03:50:43,103 --> 03:50:45,973
and who constantly come and uplift these things. And it's

3270
03:50:45,973 --> 03:50:48,241
like they're not making this stuff up. So I want to make

3271
03:50:48,241 --> 03:50:50,243
sure we all hear this and think about it. It may not be your

3272
03:50:50,243 --> 03:50:53,460
neighborhood today, but it could be very soon. So thank

3273
03:50:53,460 --> 03:50:55,460
you. This next.

3274
03:51:06,526 --> 03:51:12,199
Thank you, Mister Mayor. Yeah. Another case in case. In many

3275
03:51:12,199 --> 03:51:16,469
ways, a lot of parallels to the case we just had before us. I

3276
03:51:16,469 --> 03:51:19,539
there's a lot to recommend this. I'm. I'm personally

3277
03:51:19,539 --> 03:51:22,476
unconcerned by the increased density in that area. We want

3278
03:51:22,476 --> 03:51:24,811
density around the city, so more density in that area to me

3279
03:51:24,811 --> 03:51:28,348
is not a bad thing. It's it's zoned for the police type map

3280
03:51:28,348 --> 03:51:30,950
is mixed use neighborhood. I think the roadway improvements

3281
03:51:30,950 --> 03:51:34,754
are significant in that part of 98. I appreciate the affordable

3282
03:51:34,754 --> 03:51:36,823
housing proffer. And I think what you've done on the

3283
03:51:36,823 --> 03:51:39,625
stormwater is actually given us a hundred year storm treatment,

3284
03:51:39,625 --> 03:51:44,231
which is very needed in that area. I mean, you meet 23 of

3285
03:51:44,231 --> 03:51:48,235
the 27 comprehensive plan policies. So that's also strong.

3286
03:51:48,235 --> 03:51:52,105
At the same time, I do hear the concerns of residents about

3287
03:51:52,105 --> 03:51:54,641
this being in a future growth area, and I think we ought to

3288
03:51:54,641 --> 03:51:56,309
make sure that we have all the infrastructure we need for

3289
03:51:56,309 --> 03:51:58,912
those areas. I'm a little bit concerned about this. In this

3290
03:51:58,912 --> 03:52:01,581
case, I do hear the Planning Commission. I took their

3291
03:52:01,581 --> 03:52:04,251
recommendations in the last vote. They voted against us

3292
03:52:04,251 --> 03:52:08,989
nine zero. That also weighs on me as well. I will also say, I

3293
03:52:08,989 --> 03:52:12,592
know the Durham folks in the last case mentioned that, or

3294
03:52:12,592 --> 03:52:15,610
suggested that Panther Creek was on the 303 impaired list.

3295
03:52:15,610 --> 03:52:18,665
It's not. But you're correct that Little Creek is on the 303

3296
03:52:18,665 --> 03:52:21,201
impaired list, and that concerns me as well. So I am

3297
03:52:21,201 --> 03:52:23,803
unconvinced in this case and still thinking about it. Thank

3298
03:52:23,803 --> 03:52:28,603
you. Are you willing to commit to no

3299
03:52:32,813 --> 03:52:35,749
blasting? I think that we're hopeful that

3300
03:52:35,749 --> 03:52:38,885
blasting will not be required, but we cannot guarantee that

3301
03:52:38,885 --> 03:52:42,210
blasting will not be required, especially when we have

3302
03:52:42,210 --> 03:52:45,625
committed to the 100 year storm for the pre and post

3303
03:52:45,625 --> 03:52:48,828
construction, which does require the erosion control

3304
03:52:48,828 --> 03:52:52,765
sediment basins to be much deeper and larger than they

3305
03:52:52,765 --> 03:52:55,769
would ordinarily.. Can. You commit to no blasting

3306
03:52:55,769 --> 03:52:58,771
except for the 100 year storm development?

3307
03:52:58,771 --> 03:53:03,510
No, I do not think that would be possible.

3308
03:53:03,510 --> 03:53:06,460
You heard the asked from the Environmental Affairs Board.

3309
03:53:06,460 --> 03:53:11,717
Did you note those? Well, I would note that those

3310
03:53:11,717 --> 03:53:17,657
requests there were I think six or so. None of those were

3311
03:53:17,657 --> 03:53:22,462
provided to us in advance. We're hearing them tonight. And

3312
03:53:22,462 --> 03:53:28,000
that was the first time we had heard them. So we would also, I

3313
03:53:28,000 --> 03:53:31,271
believe it was mentioned earlier, there was a request to

3314
03:53:31,271 --> 03:53:35,275
have that included in the case packet. We would also ask if

3315
03:53:35,275 --> 03:53:38,544
the applicant could be provided with those as well. So we could

3316
03:53:38,544 --> 03:53:42,281
appropriately evaluate those requests in advance. If the

3317
03:53:42,281 --> 03:53:46,619
goal is for us to be able to accommodate them or consider

3318
03:53:46,619 --> 03:53:51,624
them. From what it sounded like, the main issues were

3319
03:53:51,624 --> 03:53:54,694
about disturbance of the stream buffer, which we have already

3320
03:53:54,694 --> 03:53:58,231
committed to. Limited disturbance. And then it also

3321
03:53:58,231 --> 03:54:01,634
sounded like the main concerns were about the erosion control

3322
03:54:01,634 --> 03:54:04,704
measures as well, which again, we've committed above and

3323
03:54:04,704 --> 03:54:08,575
beyond, including for the 100 year storm, for the erosion and

3324
03:54:08,575 --> 03:54:11,511
sediment control basins. So the first one was the

3325
03:54:11,511 --> 03:54:15,181
preservation of tree coverage at a minimum of 35% canopy

3326
03:54:15,181 --> 03:54:18,651
across the site. And then the second one is contiguous in

3327
03:54:18,651 --> 03:54:21,120
that tree. Coverage. To avoid fragmentation and maintain

3328
03:54:21,120 --> 03:54:24,323
ecological function, we are able to do that.

3329
03:54:24,323 --> 03:54:28,471
So we cannot do 35%. We have committed to an increase of

3330
03:54:28,471 --> 03:54:34,277
22%, and I know it was asked for the prior case, what that

3331
03:54:34,277 --> 03:54:38,482
would amount to, and for our case, we we did look at it. And

3332
03:54:38,482 --> 03:54:40,817
that additional tree save accounts for about three

3333
03:54:40,817 --> 03:54:45,288
quarters of an acre. And can it be contiguous?

3334
03:54:45,288 --> 03:54:52,488
So looking at our site plan and concept as it stands currently,

3335
03:54:52,628 --> 03:54:55,165
all of the areas in dark green you can see that is where our

3336
03:54:55,165 --> 03:54:58,835
planned tree preservation and open space will be located. So

3337
03:54:58,835 --> 03:55:01,571
in many places it is contiguous. But we can't

3338
03:55:01,571 --> 03:55:05,175
guarantee that it is contiguous in all areas. As you can see,

3339
03:55:05,175 --> 03:55:09,112
there's roads, there's the access points, and then there

3340
03:55:09,112 --> 03:55:13,850
are other features, but a lot of it is contiguous. And this

3341
03:55:13,850 --> 03:55:20,450
is again consistent with the site plan that has been filed.

3342
03:55:21,725 --> 03:55:26,263
Are you willing to do implementation of turbidity

3343
03:55:26,263 --> 03:55:29,599
monitoring? We've seen this in other cases and the results

3344
03:55:29,599 --> 03:55:34,270
have come to the city. I know that there are multiple

3345
03:55:34,270 --> 03:55:40,543
changes that have been made to the code recently to the Udo,

3346
03:55:40,543 --> 03:55:43,747
specifically as it relates to the erosion control plan. I'm

3347
03:55:43,747 --> 03:55:48,885
not sure if what the plans are for turbidity, but we will

3348
03:55:48,885 --> 03:55:52,880
follow what is required by the Udo in terms of the erosion

3349
03:55:52,880 --> 03:55:57,227
control. And so if that is not one of them, then no, that's

3350
03:55:57,227 --> 03:55:59,762
not an additional commitment that we can make.

3351
03:55:59,762 --> 03:56:03,767
Your unwilling to measure the turbidity or allow anyone on to

3352
03:56:03,767 --> 03:56:07,971
measure during development. I'll have Tim with Kennedy

3353
03:56:07,971 --> 03:56:12,171
explain. Tim was with community. So the

3354
03:56:12,975 --> 03:56:16,913
additional additional measures that we're adding are in itself

3355
03:56:16,913 --> 03:56:20,183
measuring because we are holding more of that stormwater

3356
03:56:20,183 --> 03:56:23,919
back during the construction, measuring each drop of rainfall

3357
03:56:23,919 --> 03:56:29,259
that hits the site for a 2 to 3 year period during construction

3358
03:56:29,259 --> 03:56:33,263
is very difficult. But the improvements that we have

3359
03:56:33,263 --> 03:56:37,660
provided for the erosion control measures provide an

3360
03:56:37,660 --> 03:56:40,536
increased amount above and beyond what the storm, what the

3361
03:56:40,536 --> 03:56:43,406
requirements have in the ordinance now, which were

3362
03:56:43,406 --> 03:56:47,343
recently increased 2 to 3 years ago from the original

3363
03:56:47,343 --> 03:56:49,279
requirements. And will those be made

3364
03:56:49,279 --> 03:56:53,479
available to the city? They're already commitments.

3365
03:56:53,550 --> 03:56:56,686
But the whatever readings that y'all do as part of that.

3366
03:56:56,686 --> 03:56:58,621
I'm sorry. Can you move. The whatever, whatever readings

3367
03:56:58,621 --> 03:57:00,890
that you do as part of that? Will the results of that be

3368
03:57:00,890 --> 03:57:04,627
made available to the city. The county does those

3369
03:57:04,627 --> 03:57:07,363
inspections. So they are county held inspections so they are

3370
03:57:07,363 --> 03:57:09,363
available? Yes. Okay.

3371
03:57:09,766 --> 03:57:13,236
The county the city does not control erosion control. The

3372
03:57:13,236 --> 03:57:16,306
county does. So those are all county inspections. They are

3373
03:57:16,306 --> 03:57:19,906
not through us, through the developer.

3374
03:57:21,111 --> 03:57:24,381
Okay. I have a stream crossing

3375
03:57:24,381 --> 03:57:28,918
question. So y'all have a maximum of two stream crossing

3376
03:57:28,918 --> 03:57:33,322
roads. And then for for utilities, is there no way to

3377
03:57:33,322 --> 03:57:38,928
combine those. Why why do we have to have six? Oh Tim coming

3378
03:57:38,928 --> 03:57:43,728
back up. Yeah we can we can minimize

3379
03:57:44,934 --> 03:57:50,500
those. We can cut both of those in half based on our plan now.

3380
03:57:50,500 --> 03:57:52,475
So we could do a maximum of one stream crossing, which you're

3381
03:57:52,475 --> 03:57:57,790
seeing the road to the, if you will. Bottom left of the corner

3382
03:57:57,790 --> 03:58:00,750
is curved. Are you guys seeing what I'm seeing on the screen

3383
03:58:00,750 --> 03:58:03,753
now? We are. Okay. So you can see how we're designing around

3384
03:58:03,753 --> 03:58:06,689
around the edge of the stream buffers and wetlands there. So

3385
03:58:06,689 --> 03:58:09,292
that was during the initial design. That was our second

3386
03:58:09,292 --> 03:58:12,162
stream crossing. But the stream, it starts a little

3387
03:58:12,162 --> 03:58:15,310
further so we can eliminate one stream crossing. So we can

3388
03:58:15,310 --> 03:58:20,236
change that to one stream crossing. And three utilities.

3389
03:58:20,236 --> 03:58:23,640
So we'll cut what was the initial four. So we can go to

3390
03:58:23,640 --> 03:58:27,109
half one and two one stream crossing two utility.

3391
03:58:27,109 --> 03:58:30,312
And they do have to be separate the utilities and the and the

3392
03:58:30,312 --> 03:58:33,449
roadway crossing. Yes. Due to the storm water and

3393
03:58:33,449 --> 03:58:36,652
how it flows to the stream. Yes. Okay.

3394
03:58:36,652 --> 03:58:41,452
Those are my questions for now. Thank you.

3395
03:58:41,457 --> 03:58:48,570
Council Member Baker go back. I'm not sure you'll be very

3396
03:58:49,132 --> 03:58:54,300
surprised by my comments here. I appreciate you for coming in

3397
03:58:54,300 --> 03:58:58,803
and presenting and working through those those commitments

3398
03:58:58,808 --> 03:59:04,800
again, I'm not interested in kind of what I see as

3399
03:59:04,800 --> 03:59:07,484
rearranging the deck chairs on the on the Titanic. I think we

3400
03:59:07,484 --> 03:59:11,754
need a paradigm shift in the way that we plan and develop.

3401
03:59:11,754 --> 03:59:16,292
I'm a professional planner, not because I hate planning and

3402
03:59:16,292 --> 03:59:18,428
development, but because I actually love planning and

3403
03:59:18,428 --> 03:59:24,300
development. I get excited when I think about the design of of

3404
03:59:24,300 --> 03:59:26,503
where we live, in the places that we live and the cities

3405
03:59:26,503 --> 03:59:29,639
that we build and the way that we grow and the streets and the

3406
03:59:29,639 --> 03:59:32,508
sidewalks and the trees and the buildings when they rise out of

3407
03:59:32,508 --> 03:59:34,778
the ground. Those are all things that I think are

3408
03:59:34,778 --> 03:59:40,717
incredibly exciting. I love those things. And I think about

3409
03:59:40,717 --> 03:59:43,452
in places that have lots of natural features. They're not

3410
03:59:43,452 --> 03:59:47,991
encumbrances, they're features. They're assets to to a site.

3411
03:59:47,991 --> 03:59:54,591
And when you design and layout a development, those should be

3412
03:59:55,331 --> 04:00:00,603
lifted up as special places on the site. I just don't think

3413
04:00:00,603 --> 04:00:04,207
that that is a practice that that we lead here in this city.

3414
04:00:04,207 --> 04:00:07,810
And I don't think that because the evidence shows that we we

3415
04:00:07,810 --> 04:00:11,130
don't we don't use those practices when we're laying out

3416
04:00:11,130 --> 04:00:13,149
sites and we're we're thinking about the way that the city is

3417
04:00:13,149 --> 04:00:17,753
growing and those are having real world impacts on people

3418
04:00:17,753 --> 04:00:21,557
who live here today, people who are moving to Durham. And the

3419
04:00:21,557 --> 04:00:25,761
way that we grow. I don't think this hits the mark. I don't

3420
04:00:25,761 --> 04:00:29,766
think that I've seen anything that hits the mark recently or

3421
04:00:29,766 --> 04:00:33,769
very often, and I'm always looking for ways to get to.

3422
04:00:33,769 --> 04:00:35,838
Yes, I know that sounds surprising, but I'm always

3423
04:00:35,838 --> 04:00:42,587
looking for ways to get to yes on on cases. And a reminder

3424
04:00:42,587 --> 04:00:45,457
we're not actually approving development. We're approving,

3425
04:00:45,457 --> 04:00:48,259
you know, annexation and rezoning that can sit there for

3426
04:00:48,259 --> 04:00:53,732
a very long time or can be changed in the future. So I

3427
04:00:53,732 --> 04:00:56,735
would also just remind us that that there are there are tens

3428
04:00:56,735 --> 04:01:01,807
of thousands, if not more, but likely tens of thousands of

3429
04:01:01,807 --> 04:01:07,145
units of capacity within city limits today that we will we

3430
04:01:07,145 --> 04:01:10,415
won't see that. We don't need to see. But there is lots of

3431
04:01:10,415 --> 04:01:15,887
capacity to to grow within city limits. I, I just think that we

3432
04:01:15,887 --> 04:01:19,958
are in an era and a place in a time where it's important that

3433
04:01:19,958 --> 04:01:26,764
we we focus inward, where we, we, you know, I, I would be

3434
04:01:26,764 --> 04:01:31,564
open to an exceptionally planned and designed master

3435
04:01:32,104 --> 04:01:37,375
development, but we just aren't seeing those in front of us. We

3436
04:01:37,375 --> 04:01:42,447
need a paradigm shift. Happy Earth Day, let's support our

3437
04:01:42,447 --> 04:01:45,183
wild animals and the habitat that they live in. Let's

3438
04:01:45,183 --> 04:01:48,253
support our young people who come and speak up. Let's

3439
04:01:48,253 --> 04:01:51,790
support future generations so that they have the ability to

3440
04:01:51,790 --> 04:01:57,128
make choices on land and not just not just us. Let's support

3441
04:01:57,128 --> 04:02:00,932
our environmentalists. Let's support our farmers who come

3442
04:02:00,932 --> 04:02:06,300
and speak to us as well. Let's, let's, let's think about the

3443
04:02:06,300 --> 04:02:08,807
environment. Let's think about planet Earth, and let's think

3444
04:02:08,807 --> 04:02:11,807
about future generations. Thank you.

3445
04:02:15,479 --> 04:02:18,616
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I have a few questions for staff. I

3446
04:02:18,616 --> 04:02:22,954
think it will probably relate to planning, but may involve

3447
04:02:22,954 --> 04:02:26,424
other other staff teams. So first of all, I want to be

3448
04:02:26,424 --> 04:02:29,427
clear. Are there policies regarding the UB or future

3449
04:02:29,427 --> 04:02:31,963
growth areas that have not been met by this application? There

3450
04:02:31,963 --> 04:02:34,632
was reference to that, and I just want to make sure I fully

3451
04:02:34,632 --> 04:02:38,503
understand that that point. Staff has not determined that

3452
04:02:38,503 --> 04:02:42,974
there are any that have not been met interpretation by

3453
04:02:42,974 --> 04:02:47,112
others, or is certainly valid and and allowed, but staff is

3454
04:02:47,112 --> 04:02:52,317
not determined that no. Second, it's clear that we have

3455
04:02:52,317 --> 04:02:56,387
an impairment issue with Little Creek and other waterways in

3456
04:02:56,387 --> 04:02:59,457
Durham. And so that's part of the the balance that we try and

3457
04:02:59,457 --> 04:03:02,393
strike in meeting our various needs as a community. I'm

3458
04:03:02,393 --> 04:03:05,796
curious what you see as the most significant impacts on our

3459
04:03:05,796 --> 04:03:09,996
water in the rural parts of Durham.

3460
04:03:12,870 --> 04:03:15,539
I don't know that I would say that. I mean, there's lots

3461
04:03:15,539 --> 04:03:19,944
there's lots of issues, right? There are issues with erosion

3462
04:03:19,944 --> 04:03:24,882
control. There are issues with impaired streams in terms of

3463
04:03:24,882 --> 04:03:28,619
sediments. And then of course, you have pollutants from

3464
04:03:28,619 --> 04:03:31,822
non-point sources such as runoff from our roadways and so

3465
04:03:31,822 --> 04:03:36,160
forth. So there are a number of pollutants and sedimentation

3466
04:03:36,160 --> 04:03:40,231
that can get into our streams. I'm not enough of an expert on

3467
04:03:40,231 --> 04:03:44,350
water resources to be able to say, say, rank them or provide

3468
04:03:44,350 --> 04:03:47,705
a prioritization. But those are major issues that we deal with.

3469
04:03:47,705 --> 04:03:50,241
Because like a couple of other issues that I struggle with in

3470
04:03:50,241 --> 04:03:54,112
thinking about managing water resources are discharge from

3471
04:03:54,112 --> 04:03:58,182
septic. And so thinking about the benefits of bringing on,

3472
04:03:58,182 --> 04:04:01,786
you know, more homes into our our water system. I know that's

3473
04:04:01,786 --> 04:04:05,123
a major driver of environmental degradation as well as

3474
04:04:05,123 --> 04:04:08,125
agricultural lands and runoff. And so thinking about how we

3475
04:04:08,125 --> 04:04:10,328
can support our farmers as well, when we look at

3476
04:04:10,328 --> 04:04:12,797
degradation of our waterways like housing and development,

3477
04:04:12,797 --> 04:04:15,933
is one thing. But in our rural areas, septic systems and

3478
04:04:15,933 --> 04:04:19,471
agricultural lands are also big contributors. What are the

3479
04:04:19,471 --> 04:04:24,142
plans for water extension in this area? Are there any and

3480
04:04:24,142 --> 04:04:26,478
why is this not part of the comp plan or future growth

3481
04:04:26,478 --> 04:04:30,678
areas? Just why is just sewer included.?

3482
04:04:30,681 --> 04:04:34,953
So sewer was identified as the main need for this entire area.

3483
04:04:34,953 --> 04:04:39,290
I can't speak to why not water as well, but usually those two

3484
04:04:39,290 --> 04:04:45,230
go hand in hand. We get very few if any requests for sewer

3485
04:04:45,230 --> 04:04:47,565
and not also water. So I think the assumption would be that

3486
04:04:47,565 --> 04:04:54,105
the water would follow as well. We've heard a number of

3487
04:04:54,105 --> 04:04:57,175
requests, you know, great suggestions from the

3488
04:04:57,175 --> 04:05:00,245
Environmental Affairs Board. Do we have a sense of how much of

3489
04:05:00,245 --> 04:05:03,914
that is been incorporated into the LDC and will apply as the

3490
04:05:03,914 --> 04:05:05,850
base code for future developments?

3491
04:05:05,850 --> 04:05:11,550
I have not had a chance to look at the requests or

3492
04:05:11,550 --> 04:05:13,992
recommendations from EAB and compare them to the LDC. We

3493
04:05:13,992 --> 04:05:18,192
just got those this morning. All right.

3494
04:05:23,134 --> 04:05:25,203
So I'm pulling my notes back up. My computer went.

3495
04:05:25,203 --> 04:05:30,300
Out. My next question is do we know

3496
04:05:39,217 --> 04:05:43,221
the price of a current home or a townhome for sale in Durham?

3497
04:05:43,221 --> 04:05:48,960
At 80%? Am I. The price? I do not have that

3498
04:05:48,960 --> 04:05:51,695
at my fingertips. We could get that and get that to you. We

3499
04:05:51,695 --> 04:05:56,568
would work with housing and the housing department. They keep

3500
04:05:56,568 --> 04:05:59,703
those those numbers. I can give you an estimate, but how much

3501
04:05:59,703 --> 04:06:02,440
it's actually selling for? No, I do not know if it's not my

3502
04:06:02,440 --> 04:06:04,420
head. Yeah. I'd be curious because

3503
04:06:04,420 --> 04:06:06,440
I've heard that we're getting to the point where new market

3504
04:06:06,440 --> 04:06:09,848
rate townhome development, you know, is it about 80% Ami. And

3505
04:06:09,848 --> 04:06:13,717
so I'm curious to see how the, the you know, what was said by

3506
04:06:13,717 --> 04:06:16,540
the applicant compares with that.

3507
04:06:16,540 --> 04:06:20,391
So the in the staff report, I just need to scroll to that

3508
04:06:20,391 --> 04:06:26,991
section of the staff report. It does give a an estimated.

3509
04:06:28,266 --> 04:06:34,866
Housing cost for sale and rental. But we that would be

3510
04:06:35,540 --> 04:06:40,612
for Durham as a whole. There's nothing say so down to this

3511
04:06:40,612 --> 04:06:44,812
neighborhood level that we have access to.

3512
04:06:45,416 --> 04:06:49,940
In terms of blasting, if there is damage, is there a

3513
04:06:49,940 --> 04:06:52,164
compensation? And I ask in part, there's blasting

3514
04:06:52,164 --> 04:06:55,367
happening 100ft from my house and there was a survey done,

3515
04:06:55,367 --> 04:06:58,437
and I thought we were told that if there was damage, that there

3516
04:06:58,437 --> 04:07:02,441
would be a support for, for any repairs. So I'm not asking just

3517
04:07:02,441 --> 04:07:05,243
from a personal standpoint, but I do share that, you know, this

3518
04:07:05,243 --> 04:07:09,715
is an issue that is happening across our city.

3519
04:07:09,715 --> 04:07:14,653
So blasting companies are required to be insured and be

3520
04:07:14,653 --> 04:07:18,524
able to handle to address claims against them. That is

3521
04:07:18,524 --> 04:07:21,600
not something that local government is involved in. That

3522
04:07:21,600 --> 04:07:23,595
is a private civil matter between the blasting company

3523
04:07:23,595 --> 04:07:26,595
and any affected property owners.

3524
04:07:32,871 --> 04:07:36,750
I mean, this is a difficult case. There's a lot of

3525
04:07:36,750 --> 04:07:39,678
impressive proffers that we look for in these sorts of

3526
04:07:39,678 --> 04:07:42,948
cases. I think that the bar has to be set even higher for our

3527
04:07:42,948 --> 04:07:47,352
future growth areas. Beyond just, you know, other

3528
04:07:47,352 --> 04:07:50,288
annexations and rezoning. So that's something I'm trying to

3529
04:07:50,288 --> 04:07:53,240
take into consideration in weighing, you know, both the

3530
04:07:53,240 --> 04:07:56,295
benefits and the the drawbacks, the harms from a development

3531
04:07:56,295 --> 04:07:59,831
like this. I definitely hear the concern about fire and

3532
04:07:59,831 --> 04:08:02,340
about EMS, and I think that's something we have to commit

3533
04:08:02,340 --> 04:08:06,304
ourselves as a council to, to better understanding and making

3534
04:08:06,304 --> 04:08:09,308
sure we have plans in place as we try and find the sequencing,

3535
04:08:09,308 --> 04:08:12,578
which is not always going to be as we like. Between providing

3536
04:08:12,578 --> 04:08:16,782
housing and providing services, but we have to do our best to

3537
04:08:16,782 --> 04:08:18,984
to balance those. If we're going to grow in a way that's

3538
04:08:18,984 --> 04:08:21,787
not just about a downtown, but, you know, a city with different

3539
04:08:21,787 --> 04:08:24,560
hubs, and we're going to have housing and commercial and

3540
04:08:24,560 --> 04:08:27,126
different parts of the city and county. So we have to decide

3541
04:08:27,126 --> 04:08:30,396
how we're going to do that. You know, in the housing piece is

3542
04:08:30,396 --> 04:08:32,264
important to me, and I'm going to have a question for the

3543
04:08:32,264 --> 04:08:36,267
applicant. You know, there's a great Pew Research study with a

3544
04:08:36,267 --> 04:08:40,405
meta analysis from cities across the US showing that the

3545
04:08:40,405 --> 04:08:42,608
number one benefit from building homes in high demand

3546
04:08:42,608 --> 04:08:45,544
areas and and other parts of the city is reduced rents in

3547
04:08:45,544 --> 04:08:48,120
low income neighborhoods. And, you know, as a city, we have to

3548
04:08:48,120 --> 04:08:50,549
be able to balance and do both. Fighting for strong tenant

3549
04:08:50,549 --> 04:08:53,552
protections, addressing landlords who charge excessive

3550
04:08:53,552 --> 04:08:56,488
fees, take actions that are not in the benefit of our

3551
04:08:56,488 --> 04:09:01,920
residents, you know, and also, housing is what helps address

3552
04:09:01,920 --> 04:09:03,228
folks from being pushed out. And that's part of the reason

3553
04:09:03,228 --> 04:09:06,765
why we've seen rents stabilize in Durham, where they have not

3554
04:09:06,765 --> 04:09:09,835
in other parts of the country that have not taken the steps.

3555
04:09:09,835 --> 04:09:13,705
Durham has taken around the provision of housing for for

3556
04:09:13,705 --> 04:09:16,241
our residents. And so that's something that I take seriously

3557
04:09:16,241 --> 04:09:19,177
to not wanting to displace our folks. And that means a shared

3558
04:09:19,177 --> 04:09:23,648
responsibility for the housing that we provide. It's something

3559
04:09:23,648 --> 04:09:25,584
that, once again, is happening in my neighborhood, like

3560
04:09:25,584 --> 04:09:29,921
happening in places all around the city. So but in thinking

3561
04:09:29,921 --> 04:09:33,859
about the balance, you know, I also, you know, want to keep in

3562
04:09:33,859 --> 04:09:36,795
mind the impacts of, of places like southeast Durham that have

3563
04:09:36,795 --> 04:09:39,865
seen dramatic impacts from growth and the higher standard

3564
04:09:39,865 --> 04:09:42,200
I want to see from future growth areas to try and help to

3565
04:09:42,200 --> 04:09:46,400
manage that. As we try and help make sure that we are providing

3566
04:09:46,400 --> 04:09:48,874
places for people to live, minimizing the cost of housing

3567
04:09:48,874 --> 04:09:54,120
and addressing critical needs of our water and safety as we

3568
04:09:54,120 --> 04:09:57,150
grow. And so I'll be taking that into consideration as I as

3569
04:09:57,150 --> 04:10:03,150
I weigh this one. I don't have any questions. If

3570
04:10:14,299 --> 04:10:18,170
you want to sit down, I'm going to be brief. I think y'all

3571
04:10:18,170 --> 04:10:22,240
heard my thoughts on this on the last one as well. I want to

3572
04:10:22,240 --> 04:10:24,977
add one thing to this conversation, which is that we

3573
04:10:24,977 --> 04:10:28,313
talk about. We've had several people come up here and talk

3574
04:10:28,313 --> 04:10:32,184
about farmland and what it means and the value that it

3575
04:10:32,184 --> 04:10:37,990
adds, and we we get these metrics in our packets. That's

3576
04:10:37,990 --> 04:10:41,527
like, what is the cost versus the benefit of annexing the

3577
04:10:41,527 --> 04:10:44,129
land? And I hear that we're talking about getting that

3578
04:10:44,129 --> 04:10:46,865
information from EMS. And I do think that that's important.

3579
04:10:46,865 --> 04:10:50,736
But also the metrics that we're using are not accurate. And so

3580
04:10:50,736 --> 04:10:52,938
that's something that we need to be really upfront about.

3581
04:10:52,938 --> 04:10:57,138
They're dated. They're not consistent across departments

3582
04:10:57,142 --> 04:11:00,679
and they're not taking into account all of the impacts. We

3583
04:11:00,679 --> 04:11:03,548
talk about the value of farmland. We're not talking

3584
04:11:03,548 --> 04:11:07,860
about the fact that now we're having to pay so much extra to.

3585
04:11:07,860 --> 04:11:11,690
Get rid of. the wonderful. Waste that we're composting. We

3586
04:11:11,690 --> 04:11:15,694
in Durham are doing a great job of composting the waste, but we

3587
04:11:15,694 --> 04:11:19,764
can't get rid of it now because we used to put it, give it to

3588
04:11:19,764 --> 04:11:24,369
farmers and now we're having to pay extra to cart it out

3589
04:11:24,369 --> 04:11:27,506
further and further because we don't have the farmland to take

3590
04:11:27,506 --> 04:11:30,420
the waste that we're now turning into compost. These are

3591
04:11:30,420 --> 04:11:33,450
costs that we're not talking about, and they're important,

3592
04:11:33,450 --> 04:11:37,583
and they are cascading. We also are talking here about like

3593
04:11:37,583 --> 04:11:41,783
rent stabilization and about affordability. And we're

3594
04:11:43,788 --> 04:11:48,326
destroying the environment and thinking that this is creating

3595
04:11:48,326 --> 04:11:52,264
affordability is just like mind boggling to me. If something is

3596
04:11:52,264 --> 04:11:55,667
not affordable, if you need two cars and an HOA to access it,

3597
04:11:55,667 --> 04:11:58,470
and in 20 years you're not going to be able to get

3598
04:11:58,470 --> 04:12:02,700
insurance, it's not affordable, that's not affordable. And we

3599
04:12:02,700 --> 04:12:05,210
need to stop talking about it like it is. So it's going to be

3600
04:12:05,210 --> 04:12:08,130
a no for me on this case. I do appreciate the extra proffers

3601
04:12:08,130 --> 04:12:12,813
and the interest on on the infrastructure development.

3602
04:12:13,170 --> 04:12:16,622
This is also a 0 to 9 recommendation from the

3603
04:12:16,622 --> 04:12:18,957
Planning Commission. These are volunteers that spend their

3604
04:12:18,957 --> 04:12:22,694
hours that are experts, that we have all appointed to sit on

3605
04:12:22,694 --> 04:12:26,565
this board to advise us. It's not binding, but they are

3606
04:12:26,565 --> 04:12:30,302
advisory council and they voted 0 to 9 on recommendation on

3607
04:12:30,302 --> 04:12:34,105
this. So I will be voting along with the with the commissioners

3608
04:12:34,105 --> 04:12:38,305
on this case. Thank you. Thank you.

3609
04:12:38,710 --> 04:12:41,380
I appreciate all my colleagues comments. I will also be voting

3610
04:12:41,380 --> 04:12:45,583
no on this. I think. I think at this point I've only voted yes

3611
04:12:45,583 --> 04:12:47,585
on anything that was either outside of that urban growth

3612
04:12:47,585 --> 04:12:50,550
boundary or future growth boundary, and it was just a

3613
04:12:50,550 --> 04:12:53,659
small portion of the site. There's a large site, just one

3614
04:12:53,659 --> 04:12:56,865
little piece of it was outside the future growth boundary.

3615
04:12:56,865 --> 04:12:59,535
Sorry, in the future growth boundary. And so I felt like

3616
04:12:59,535 --> 04:13:02,938
weighing the pros and cons that made sense to me, because it

3617
04:13:02,938 --> 04:13:10,738
wasn't the whole site. I will say that I, you know, we all

3618
04:13:11,612 --> 04:13:14,160
I'm the longest serving member on this council. I've been on

3619
04:13:14,160 --> 04:13:17,419
this seat since 2018. That's not a small amount of time. On

3620
04:13:17,419 --> 04:13:22,819
my ninth budget and different council members have approached

3621
04:13:23,491 --> 04:13:25,827
these kinds of decisions and cases along the way in very

3622
04:13:25,827 --> 04:13:29,364
different ways. Everyone has to make their own decision.

3623
04:13:29,364 --> 04:13:31,500
Everyone has to do a calculus. Some people listen to the

3624
04:13:31,500 --> 04:13:33,502
planning commission, others don't. Some people use planning

3625
04:13:33,502 --> 04:13:38,239
commission to bolster their opinion or don't. The previous

3626
04:13:38,239 --> 04:13:41,576
case had had been overwhelmingly approved by

3627
04:13:41,576 --> 04:13:44,780
planning Commission. So I just want to share that. That is

3628
04:13:44,780 --> 04:13:48,490
it's an important piece of the puzzle, but it is one piece of

3629
04:13:48,490 --> 04:13:51,586
the puzzle. And so I just don't want residents to think that

3630
04:13:51,586 --> 04:13:55,390
it's carte blanche that we just listen to our planning

3631
04:13:55,390 --> 04:13:59,590
commissioners. We definitely the better comments they

3632
04:14:00,395 --> 04:14:03,665
provide, the more the more I listen to them. When when folks

3633
04:14:03,665 --> 04:14:06,134
don't actually put in a lot of comments for us. I'm not going

3634
04:14:06,134 --> 04:14:08,536
to go watch the meeting. Their meetings last three hours, our

3635
04:14:08,536 --> 04:14:12,473
own meetings last, however long they last, and we have six to 8

3636
04:14:12,473 --> 04:14:16,110
to 9 committees that we all support. So we're in a lot of

3637
04:14:16,110 --> 04:14:21,549
meetings. So I won't be supporting this case tonight. I

3638
04:14:21,549 --> 04:14:24,886
do appreciate all of the proffers. They they're it's a,

3639
04:14:24,886 --> 04:14:27,823
you know, they're good proffers. But when I think

3640
04:14:27,823 --> 04:14:33,361
about that piece of it, it does give me pause and I do I would

3641
04:14:33,361 --> 04:14:37,565
like the timeline on the EMS question at some point. Not if

3642
04:14:37,565 --> 04:14:40,569
staff could reach out to us when we talk to our county

3643
04:14:40,569 --> 04:14:43,104
colleagues. I would like to understand when we're going to

3644
04:14:43,104 --> 04:14:46,842
start getting that piece of the equation, because we don't have

3645
04:14:46,842 --> 04:14:49,644
any control over that. We can do fire and police response,

3646
04:14:49,644 --> 04:14:52,581
but we can't get that piece, which I think is important as

3647
04:14:52,581 --> 04:14:57,381
we make our decisions up here. That's all.

3648
04:14:58,252 --> 04:15:00,322
Thank you. Thank you colleagues, thank you for your

3649
04:15:00,322 --> 04:15:04,590
comments. We're almost at the point of another break, but I

3650
04:15:04,590 --> 04:15:10,598
think this has been a discussion. First up, I sort of

3651
04:15:10,598 --> 04:15:13,668
look at this objectively, you know, and then I think about

3652
04:15:13,668 --> 04:15:18,500
all of the things that, you know, I take to what the

3653
04:15:18,500 --> 04:15:21,900
Planning Commission say very seriously. I also understand

3654
04:15:21,900 --> 04:15:24,346
that cases evolved after that, sometimes based on the

3655
04:15:24,346 --> 04:15:26,414
interaction with the Planning Commission. And I can

3656
04:15:26,414 --> 04:15:31,814
appreciate that. A few questions for staff and. So.

3657
04:15:47,969 --> 04:15:51,439
The and I'm just going to ask you very basic questions

3658
04:15:51,439 --> 04:15:56,578
because I there were some comments made that I sometimes

3659
04:15:56,578 --> 04:15:59,781
it gets really exhausting trying to clarify some

3660
04:15:59,781 --> 04:16:04,252
misleading comments and I don't I don't want folks to be misled.

3661
04:16:04,252 --> 04:16:10,258
So the comprehensive plan was put together and voted on by

3662
04:16:10,258 --> 04:16:13,862
members of the community. That community members played a part

3663
04:16:13,862 --> 04:16:17,999
in establishing that. Absolutely. We took so much

3664
04:16:17,999 --> 04:16:20,135
input from members of the community in the development of

3665
04:16:20,135 --> 04:16:22,535
the comprehensive Plan. Absolutely.

3666
04:16:22,938 --> 04:16:30,738
Okay. The how did we come about with the water, the erosion and

3667
04:16:31,613 --> 04:16:37,130
tree preservation policy? So that would have been based

3668
04:16:37,850 --> 04:16:42,230
on a significant amount of input that we received. And

3669
04:16:42,230 --> 04:16:45,560
staff has already looked to address some of the erosion

3670
04:16:45,560 --> 04:16:47,695
control issues that were brought up during the

3671
04:16:47,695 --> 04:16:51,990
comprehensive planning process. And we amended the Udo, I

3672
04:16:51,990 --> 04:16:55,704
believe, in 24, 2024 to try to get at some of those things

3673
04:16:55,704 --> 04:16:58,306
that came up in the conference plan.

3674
04:16:58,306 --> 04:17:04,513
Okay. How so? This is an area where I keep hearing that we

3675
04:17:04,513 --> 04:17:08,183
need more infrastructure. And I also hear we need, you know,

3676
04:17:08,183 --> 04:17:11,119
resources. But it seems like those things are being used.

3677
04:17:11,119 --> 04:17:14,389
Those terms are being used interchangeably. How do we and

3678
04:17:14,389 --> 04:17:17,389
how do we define infrastructure.

3679
04:17:17,992 --> 04:17:22,792
Infrastructure is basically whatever is the the physical

3680
04:17:24,733 --> 04:17:28,136
things that you need for development could be roads,

3681
04:17:28,136 --> 04:17:33,536
water, sewer, utilities, water and sewer trails and greenways,

3682
04:17:33,942 --> 04:17:39,342
power lines, a variety of different. Physical. I can't

3683
04:17:43,818 --> 04:17:46,421
think of the right word, but physical things that you need

3684
04:17:46,421 --> 04:17:51,159
for the basic things you need in life, things they basically

3685
04:17:51,159 --> 04:17:54,563
need development. And how would you define

3686
04:17:54,563 --> 04:17:59,901
resources such as? Such as? There's a I mean,

3687
04:17:59,901 --> 04:18:04,101
there's resources. Approaching. So when it comes

3688
04:18:04,239 --> 04:18:07,242
to what we're talking about tonight, building zoning,

3689
04:18:07,242 --> 04:18:12,314
annexations, what resources is it fair to say resources are

3690
04:18:12,314 --> 04:18:17,714
police, fire. Those could be it could also be

3691
04:18:17,852 --> 04:18:20,989
environmental resources. People have spoken quite a bit about

3692
04:18:20,989 --> 04:18:23,325
the need to preserve environmental resources. It

3693
04:18:23,325 --> 04:18:26,994
could be financial resources, the financial resources needed

3694
04:18:26,994 --> 04:18:31,866
to be able to provide the police, fire and other things

3695
04:18:31,866 --> 04:18:36,337
that are needed in a city. How are we paying for those

3696
04:18:36,337 --> 04:18:38,737
resources and infrastructure? Infrastructure.

3697
04:18:41,342 --> 04:18:45,280
So if it's the city, it's either through general

3698
04:18:45,280 --> 04:18:50,551
obligation bonds, whether or it could be simply from the

3699
04:18:50,551 --> 04:18:53,221
current tax revenues. You're now getting into financial

3700
04:18:53,221 --> 04:18:57,358
questions that I am certainly not an expert on. Or it could

3701
04:18:57,358 --> 04:19:02,758
be from the private development community addressing needs for

3702
04:19:02,764 --> 04:19:04,632
the development and for the city's home.

3703
04:19:04,632 --> 04:19:07,703
So it's either going to be through our tax base or through

3704
04:19:07,703 --> 04:19:11,374
the builder. Generally our tax base or

3705
04:19:11,374 --> 04:19:14,777
potentially from, say, state or federal resources as well.

3706
04:19:14,777 --> 04:19:18,181
And any indication you may or may not know, there's any

3707
04:19:18,181 --> 04:19:20,584
indication that the state or federal are going to step in

3708
04:19:20,584 --> 04:19:24,784
anytime soon. Not that I'm aware of.

3709
04:19:27,390 --> 04:19:33,530
So it comes back to either us here or the private developer.

3710
04:19:33,530 --> 04:19:36,332
On the topics that we're discussing this evening. Most

3711
04:19:36,332 --> 04:19:41,538
likely we're talking about city or county resources or from the

3712
04:19:41,538 --> 04:19:44,274
private sector. Any idea of a timeline? If it's

3713
04:19:44,274 --> 04:19:48,100
on us? No, I would need to direct that

3714
04:19:48,100 --> 04:19:50,147
question to the city manager's office or the finance

3715
04:19:50,147 --> 04:19:52,616
department. All right. I and I don't ask

3716
04:19:52,616 --> 04:19:55,418
those questions in the comments anyway. I just want to be very

3717
04:19:55,418 --> 04:19:59,890
clear about how we generate resources, how we generate, how

3718
04:19:59,890 --> 04:20:04,227
we pay for these things, you know, and that and again, it

3719
04:20:04,227 --> 04:20:08,165
goes back to me, a chicken and egg matter, you know, and I'm

3720
04:20:08,165 --> 04:20:10,900
not going to play to anyone's emotions. I'm not going to do

3721
04:20:10,900 --> 04:20:15,439
that. But I do want to be very clear on how government works

3722
04:20:15,439 --> 04:20:19,976
and how our constraints are. This isn't a lecture, but, you

3723
04:20:19,976 --> 04:20:24,981
know, I think it is dangerous to pretend that everyone, every

3724
04:20:24,981 --> 04:20:29,920
case that comes before us is supposed to go get together and

3725
04:20:29,920 --> 04:20:32,923
the perfect world, that would be great. But I'm not going to

3726
04:20:32,923 --> 04:20:35,926
pretend that every applicant is going to get together and just

3727
04:20:35,926 --> 04:20:39,796
do it all for us. I'm not going to pretend that that would be

3728
04:20:39,796 --> 04:20:44,534
nice, but as of right now, in this case, I actually do have

3729
04:20:44,534 --> 04:20:47,404
some concerns with. But as of right now, when I look at these

3730
04:20:47,404 --> 04:20:50,273
cases and then when they come before us, I'm thinking about

3731
04:20:50,273 --> 04:20:54,610
how do we get to what you're asking for? While as

3732
04:20:54,610 --> 04:20:59,415
uncomfortable as it may be, and I know that the voices that I

3733
04:20:59,415 --> 04:21:01,551
hear in the room are representative of many voices

3734
04:21:01,551 --> 04:21:05,622
around the community. You know? But I think about the

3735
04:21:05,622 --> 04:21:08,558
constraints that we have with the state government that's

3736
04:21:08,558 --> 04:21:12,429
just absent. And a federal government who truly doesn't

3737
04:21:12,429 --> 04:21:16,632
care. So it comes back on us here locally. And it's like,

3738
04:21:16,632 --> 04:21:20,103
all right, so we got to get the taxpayers to pay for this. But

3739
04:21:20,103 --> 04:21:22,172
at the same time, we're restricting the tax base from

3740
04:21:22,172 --> 04:21:25,775
paying for it. So if you do have a builder or a developer

3741
04:21:25,775 --> 04:21:27,310
to come in and say, all right, we're going to put this in

3742
04:21:27,310 --> 04:21:32,648
place, you know, I and I, I've seen cases come through where

3743
04:21:32,648 --> 04:21:34,451
they said, look, we're going to put a lift station here. We're

3744
04:21:34,451 --> 04:21:36,853
going to put transportation improvements here, we're going

3745
04:21:36,853 --> 04:21:38,988
to put infrastructure here, we're going to bring we're

3746
04:21:38,988 --> 04:21:41,458
going to build a tax base. We're going to bring more roofs

3747
04:21:41,458 --> 04:21:43,860
here, more units. We're going to expand the tax base so we

3748
04:21:43,860 --> 04:21:46,263
can pay for the resources, but we're going to put the

3749
04:21:46,263 --> 04:21:49,732
infrastructure in. And so I think about it that way. And

3750
04:21:49,732 --> 04:21:51,868
then I look at the comprehensive plan doesn't meet

3751
04:21:51,868 --> 04:21:57,473
it at least most of it does. It follow the Udo that we also, as

3752
04:21:57,473 --> 04:22:02,780
residents of this community, established. And, you know, I

3753
04:22:02,780 --> 04:22:06,616
think it would be disingenuous if I just play to your emotion

3754
04:22:06,616 --> 04:22:09,419
on it and just want another just just told you what you

3755
04:22:09,419 --> 04:22:12,222
wanted to hear. I'd rather just be honest with you and be able

3756
04:22:12,222 --> 04:22:15,225
to sleep at night rather than just say whatever. But at the

3757
04:22:15,225 --> 04:22:18,762
same time, that's just me. I also don't want to portray to

3758
04:22:18,762 --> 04:22:23,633
you all colleagues that you are doing these things, but I know

3759
04:22:23,633 --> 04:22:28,171
what emails I get, and I and I just want to make sure that I

3760
04:22:28,171 --> 04:22:31,774
clearly explain to everyone my way of thinking when it comes

3761
04:22:31,774 --> 04:22:37,513
to these things. So I look forward to us having a vote,

3762
04:22:37,513 --> 04:22:44,113
and I thank you all for your your comments. All right.

3763
04:22:52,662 --> 04:22:56,132
Ready? All right. I'll entertain a motion to adopt an

3764
04:22:56,132 --> 04:22:59,403
ordinance annexing Patterson Hall into the city of Durham

3765
04:22:59,403 --> 04:23:02,806
and to authorize the city manager to enter into a utility

3766
04:23:02,806 --> 04:23:06,900
extension agreement with MI homes Incorporated.

3767
04:23:06,900 --> 04:23:09,746
So moved. Second. It's been moved and properly

3768
04:23:09,746 --> 04:23:15,746
seconded. Madam clerk, please open to vote. Please close the

3769
04:23:18,421 --> 04:23:20,821
vote. Motion fails. Unanimously.

3770
04:23:22,759 --> 04:23:28,498
Thank you. I'll also entertain a motion to adopt an ordinance.

3771
04:23:28,498 --> 04:23:31,634
Oh, actually, I don't need to do that side. The consistency

3772
04:23:31,634 --> 04:23:33,770
statement. Right? No, I don't need to do that

3773
04:23:33,770 --> 04:23:37,370
one. Okay, good. All right. We're

3774
04:23:37,374 --> 04:23:42,579
done with that one. Colleagues, let's take a let's take a five

3775
04:23:42,579 --> 04:23:49,779
minute break and then we'll get to the to the next one.

3776
04:29:43,240 --> 04:29:45,250
Okay. All right. All right. Let's get

3777
04:29:45,250 --> 04:29:47,250
started guys. You.

3778
04:30:14,855 --> 04:30:19,655
All right. Welcome back everyone. This is 23 Morgan

3779
04:30:25,933 --> 04:30:30,938
Farm. All right. Ready for the staff report okay.

3780
04:30:30,938 --> 04:30:33,808
Mayor Williams, mayor pro Tem Caballero and honorable council

3781
04:30:33,808 --> 04:30:37,211
members, it's Aaron Kane again with the planning department. A

3782
04:30:37,211 --> 04:30:40,810
request for a utility extension agreement for voluntary

3783
04:30:40,810 --> 04:30:43,830
annexation and initial zoning map change has been received

3784
04:30:43,830 --> 04:30:47,354
from Laura Holloman of McAdams. For one portion of a parcel of

3785
04:30:47,354 --> 04:30:52,754
land totaling 218.517 acres, and it's adjacent right of way.

3786
04:30:53,894 --> 04:30:58,694
Located at 8422 Farrington Mill Road. This annexation petition

3787
04:30:58,766 --> 04:31:02,350
is for a contiguous expansion of the primary corporate limits

3788
04:31:02,350 --> 04:31:06,174
to connect to city water and sewer. As part of this

3789
04:31:06,174 --> 04:31:09,310
annexation petition, the applicant is not seeking a

3790
04:31:09,310 --> 04:31:13,447
change in the underlying zoning district of Rural residential.

3791
04:31:13,447 --> 04:31:15,916
The properties are currently designated mixed Use

3792
04:31:15,916 --> 04:31:18,720
neighborhood and recreation and open space on the place type

3793
04:31:18,720 --> 04:31:22,523
map. The proposed rural residential zoning is generally

3794
04:31:22,523 --> 04:31:25,877
consistent with the designated place type. If the proposed

3795
04:31:25,877 --> 04:31:28,814
zoning is approved, there will be no change to the place type

3796
04:31:28,814 --> 04:31:32,160
designation. Thank you. Staff and the applicant are available

3797
04:31:32,160 --> 04:31:36,688
for any questions. Thank you very much. You've

3798
04:31:36,688 --> 04:31:38,556
heard the staff report. Colleagues, are there any

3799
04:31:38,556 --> 04:31:44,762
questions or comments for staff? Great. So at this time I'll

3800
04:31:44,762 --> 04:31:49,501
declare the public hearing open. Welcome. How much time do you

3801
04:31:49,501 --> 04:31:52,704
think you need? I think given.

3802
04:31:52,704 --> 04:31:55,306
The interest. In this case, 14 minutes for

3803
04:31:55,306 --> 04:31:58,443
myself as well as our landscape architect total should be

3804
04:31:58,443 --> 04:32:00,843
plenty. All right, 15 minutes.

3805
04:32:20,865 --> 04:32:23,680
Good evening, Mayor Williams and members of council. I'm

3806
04:32:23,680 --> 04:32:26,338
Jamie Schrader with Parker Poe. I'm here on behalf of the

3807
04:32:26,338 --> 04:32:29,140
applicant, m I homes, and I'm joined by our full team of

3808
04:32:29,140 --> 04:32:31,877
representatives from McAdams and Kimberly Horn, who are here

3809
04:32:31,877 --> 04:32:35,280
to answer your questions. A different request on this land

3810
04:32:35,280 --> 04:32:38,283
was denied by the council a year ago. We listened to

3811
04:32:38,283 --> 04:32:41,219
council's concerns and that of the community and what you have

3812
04:32:41,219 --> 04:32:44,890
before you tonight is a different case, one that

3813
04:32:44,890 --> 04:32:47,225
strikes the best talents possible between the city's

3814
04:32:47,225 --> 04:32:51,229
need for housing as the city grows and its desire for land

3815
04:32:51,229 --> 04:32:55,967
preservation. At the same time, the case before you respond to

3816
04:32:55,967 --> 04:32:59,370
the concerns of the Council and the community expressed last,

3817
04:32:59,370 --> 04:33:02,374
last April and provides more certainty now than it has

3818
04:33:02,374 --> 04:33:06,178
before, because MI regrouped, they listened to the community

3819
04:33:06,178 --> 04:33:09,448
and they brought forth a case that hits each of the areas

3820
04:33:09,448 --> 04:33:12,651
that were brought. A major concern given its significant

3821
04:33:12,651 --> 04:33:15,920
investments in Durham and its desire to provide the shortfall

3822
04:33:15,920 --> 04:33:20,926
of housing and fill the gap that the city needs. Am I

3823
04:33:20,926 --> 04:33:24,529
regrouped and filed just an annexation and required

3824
04:33:24,529 --> 04:33:26,731
translational zoning. I'll go through the history of that

3825
04:33:26,731 --> 04:33:29,935
because we did start with a zoning case, and due to the

3826
04:33:29,935 --> 04:33:32,871
concerns of density that were brought by the neighbors, we

3827
04:33:32,871 --> 04:33:36,274
reduced our density to just the by right allowance. We can only

3828
04:33:36,274 --> 04:33:39,477
build what we can can with the translational zoning that we

3829
04:33:39,477 --> 04:33:41,880
could otherwise build in the county. That was a choice in

3830
04:33:41,880 --> 04:33:45,150
response to the neighbors who were concerned that our density

3831
04:33:45,150 --> 04:33:47,686
would exceed what they have, which is exactly the same as

3832
04:33:47,686 --> 04:33:50,288
the Montclair neighborhood, as well as the chapel hood within

3833
04:33:50,288 --> 04:33:53,492
the neighborhood, which is 2.0. So we actually have a density

3834
04:33:53,492 --> 04:33:56,428
that's less than some of the other Downing Creek and other

3835
04:33:56,428 --> 04:33:58,764
neighborhoods that are close by. At the same time, we

3836
04:33:58,764 --> 04:34:02,300
increased our open space to three times what the case was

3837
04:34:02,300 --> 04:34:07,100
originally filed in 2022. We removed the inconsistency that

3838
04:34:07,238 --> 04:34:10,908
the council struggled with last April due to the traffic

3839
04:34:10,908 --> 04:34:13,979
improvements. That only applies to traffic development plans

3840
04:34:13,979 --> 04:34:16,848
and a zoning case that does not apply here. Tonight, we

3841
04:34:16,848 --> 04:34:18,850
committed to traffic improvements, so despite

3842
04:34:18,850 --> 04:34:21,586
lowering our density, we committed to the same traffic

3843
04:34:21,586 --> 04:34:24,989
improvements that we were before you in April. Even

3844
04:34:24,989 --> 04:34:27,993
though we have the same by right trips as we would have in

3845
04:34:27,993 --> 04:34:31,263
the county. And we also took the unusual step of filing the

3846
04:34:31,263 --> 04:34:34,650
conservation subdivision with a commitment for 100 acres of

3847
04:34:34,650 --> 04:34:36,935
open space, in response to concerns that there was a lack

3848
04:34:36,935 --> 04:34:39,938
of certainty. And we've done that. It's pending with the

3849
04:34:39,938 --> 04:34:42,674
with the city planning review staff, and we'll go through

3850
04:34:42,674 --> 04:34:46,770
those normal channels in additional. In addition, we met

3851
04:34:46,770 --> 04:34:48,790
with neighborhood groups and conservation groups and

3852
04:34:48,790 --> 04:34:51,149
incorporated key environmental site strategies that will go

3853
04:34:51,149 --> 04:34:53,618
through tonight, with Shawn Vanderslice explaining in

3854
04:34:53,618 --> 04:34:57,818
detail an unprecedented level of environmental commitments

3855
04:34:57,956 --> 04:35:01,250
and wildlife corridors on this Earth Day that the

3856
04:35:01,250 --> 04:35:03,940
Commissioner, the Council Member Baker, has already

3857
04:35:03,940 --> 04:35:05,763
spoken to. And at the same time, we kept the prior

3858
04:35:05,763 --> 04:35:09,500
commitments of that zoning case. We are filing a UEA,

3859
04:35:09,500 --> 04:35:11,636
which has the sewer extension and completion that will

3860
04:35:11,636 --> 04:35:14,372
complete the needs in this future growth area. We are

3861
04:35:14,372 --> 04:35:16,574
preserving a historic home and have the support of

3862
04:35:16,574 --> 04:35:19,778
Preservation Durham. We're committing to $1 million in

3863
04:35:19,778 --> 04:35:21,980
affordable housing contribution. I'll talk about

3864
04:35:21,980 --> 04:35:24,716
how one precedent that is and why that's important to fill a

3865
04:35:24,716 --> 04:35:28,186
public need in the city, as well as a $50,000 contribution

3866
04:35:28,186 --> 04:35:31,789
to schools and to fire EMS services, based on concerns

3867
04:35:31,789 --> 04:35:34,659
that we've heard in the community. And so what you have

3868
04:35:34,659 --> 04:35:37,928
before you tonight is a simplified review based on what

3869
04:35:37,928 --> 04:35:41,199
we heard from council and the community over the past three

3870
04:35:41,199 --> 04:35:44,602
years. It's an annexation and translational zoning, as well

3871
04:35:44,602 --> 04:35:47,271
as a utility extension agreement. And that is what has

3872
04:35:47,271 --> 04:35:49,741
the binding tools. Even though we don't have the graphic

3873
04:35:49,741 --> 04:35:52,944
development plan, we've picked up on other tools to provide

3874
04:35:52,944 --> 04:35:55,213
that certainty. So I'll go through each of those. The

3875
04:35:55,213 --> 04:35:58,616
annexation is consistent with policy 165 of the Comprehensive

3876
04:35:58,616 --> 04:36:01,820
Plan. It's contiguous with the city limits. It does not create

3877
04:36:01,820 --> 04:36:05,230
a donut hole, and it's not a satellite issue. It's within

3878
04:36:05,230 --> 04:36:08,426
the urban growth boundary and within the future growth area.

3879
04:36:08,426 --> 04:36:11,162
Because sewer is the only infrastructure that's

3880
04:36:11,162 --> 04:36:14,366
identified by policy 122. And if any of you remember Miss

3881
04:36:14,366 --> 04:36:17,435
Quinn, she and her family have been waiting on sewer in this

3882
04:36:17,435 --> 04:36:20,771
area for years. She was before you last April. She was here

3883
04:36:20,771 --> 04:36:23,174
tonight. But because of this late hour and her health

3884
04:36:23,174 --> 04:36:26,110
conditions, she was not able to stay. My understanding is that

3885
04:36:26,110 --> 04:36:29,380
she emailed and sent letters earlier in the week, and she

3886
04:36:29,380 --> 04:36:32,500
regrets not being able to hear tonight. But that sewer is

3887
04:36:32,500 --> 04:36:36,540
something that she recognizes that she participated in, in

3888
04:36:36,540 --> 04:36:38,656
that community review of what was needed here. And with this

3889
04:36:38,656 --> 04:36:41,192
project and the UEA commitments, will be providing

3890
04:36:41,192 --> 04:36:44,195
that infrastructure not only for our site, but for sites

3891
04:36:44,195 --> 04:36:46,330
like Miss Quinn's and those neighbors, neighbors who've

3892
04:36:46,330 --> 04:36:49,400
been waiting on it for so long. Without this annexation, that

3893
04:36:49,400 --> 04:36:52,269
becomes a burden of the city and the taxpayers to fund that

3894
04:36:52,269 --> 04:36:57,275
sewer. And so that's that project that furthers the

3895
04:36:57,275 --> 04:37:01,790
objective of the FTA policy. And the EPA will address that

3896
04:37:01,790 --> 04:37:04,148
sewer infrastructure as far as the translational zoning,

3897
04:37:04,148 --> 04:37:06,951
because we have dropped the zoning down to what we can do

3898
04:37:06,951 --> 04:37:10,880
by right. There is no change in the zoning of what we could do

3899
04:37:10,880 --> 04:37:13,224
today in the county versus what we're asking to do in the city.

3900
04:37:13,224 --> 04:37:15,426
It's no change in the development tier, the place

3901
04:37:15,426 --> 04:37:19,297
type map, the zoning district or the overlay. We could do 317

3902
04:37:19,297 --> 04:37:22,330
single family homes with no open space in the county. We

3903
04:37:22,330 --> 04:37:27,839
can do that in the city. We can do 340. Excuse me, 437 single

3904
04:37:27,839 --> 04:37:31,376
family homes with 50% open space. If we opt to do the

3905
04:37:31,376 --> 04:37:34,712
conservation subdivision, which we have done and shown that

3906
04:37:34,712 --> 04:37:37,598
commitment by filing a very expensive application with the

3907
04:37:37,598 --> 04:37:41,201
city that's pending today. And so that's that's no change in

3908
04:37:41,201 --> 04:37:44,604
terms of what we can do from the county to the city

3909
04:37:44,604 --> 04:37:48,750
jurisdiction. As a result, the staff finds this consistent

3910
04:37:48,750 --> 04:37:50,411
with the Udo and generally consistent with the place type

3911
04:37:50,411 --> 04:37:53,280
map designations, because what we're doing is preserving as

3912
04:37:53,280 --> 04:37:55,949
much of that open space designation as possible. And

3913
04:37:55,949 --> 04:37:59,820
you'll see that in attachment C in your staff report and are

3914
04:37:59,820 --> 04:38:03,224
overlaying that with some mix of of residential neighborhood.

3915
04:38:03,224 --> 04:38:06,360
Now, the mixed use neighborhood would otherwise want more

3916
04:38:06,360 --> 04:38:09,162
density, more development here. But because your constituents

3917
04:38:09,162 --> 04:38:11,632
have asked us not to do that, they've asked us to match the

3918
04:38:11,632 --> 04:38:14,435
density out there. We've provided the right amount. The

3919
04:38:14,435 --> 04:38:16,837
blend of that residential neighborhood with the

3920
04:38:16,837 --> 04:38:20,174
recreation open space, and we've overlaid as much as a

3921
04:38:20,174 --> 04:38:23,443
place type map designation for open space as we could with the

3922
04:38:23,443 --> 04:38:27,314
Natural Heritage Area program that we'll be talking about in

3923
04:38:27,314 --> 04:38:31,786
just a minute. Third, the proffers that I spoke about are

3924
04:38:31,786 --> 04:38:34,788
listed on your screen. The developer is is offering a one

3925
04:38:34,788 --> 04:38:38,192
time contribution of $1 million to the city's dedicated housing

3926
04:38:38,192 --> 04:38:41,595
fund for the Durham Down Payment Assistance Program.

3927
04:38:41,595 --> 04:38:43,864
This is unprecedented in the city. You've not seen a

3928
04:38:43,864 --> 04:38:46,600
commitment like this. And the reason why it's here before you

3929
04:38:46,600 --> 04:38:49,603
is that we were serious about trying to provide relief to

3930
04:38:49,603 --> 04:38:52,673
citizens, citizens who need it in an innovative way. We

3931
04:38:52,673 --> 04:38:55,208
recognize this case is innovative and it requires

3932
04:38:55,208 --> 04:38:58,212
different tools, and this is an important part of them. In

3933
04:38:58,212 --> 04:39:01,140
addition, we're making that $50,000 contribution to Durham

3934
04:39:01,140 --> 04:39:04,618
Public Schools and $50,000 to respond to the concerns. We

3935
04:39:04,618 --> 04:39:07,554
heard about emergency services in the area. In addition to

3936
04:39:07,554 --> 04:39:09,357
those changes, I wanted to highlight what this team has

3937
04:39:09,357 --> 04:39:12,560
done differently from 2022 to respond to council and

3938
04:39:12,560 --> 04:39:15,963
community concerns. This shows how we've reduced the density.

3939
04:39:15,963 --> 04:39:18,232
At the same time, we've increased open space. So your

3940
04:39:18,232 --> 04:39:21,302
first application, which is called Sheffield Farms, filed

3941
04:39:21,302 --> 04:39:26,841
back in November of 2022, had 950 units and 35 acres of open

3942
04:39:26,841 --> 04:39:31,312
space that wound its way to council and reduced down to 702

3943
04:39:31,312 --> 04:39:36,116
units and increased some of the mix of of of product, but was

3944
04:39:36,116 --> 04:39:39,853
ultimately denied. In April of 2025. We then filed a further

3945
04:39:39,853 --> 04:39:43,524
reduced density, and based on those concerns, we heard with

3946
04:39:43,524 --> 04:39:47,194
that zoning application, we withdrew the application and

3947
04:39:47,194 --> 04:39:50,264
dropped straight down to only what we can do by right. That

3948
04:39:50,264 --> 04:39:55,664
maximum of 300 or 437 single family homes and over 100 acres

3949
04:39:55,670 --> 04:39:58,500
of open space with the conservation subdivision

3950
04:39:58,500 --> 04:40:01,342
option. Now we know we've heard from the community members that

3951
04:40:01,342 --> 04:40:03,744
doubt of whether that conservation subdivision would

3952
04:40:03,744 --> 04:40:06,480
be filed, whether we'd pursue that, whether it would be

3953
04:40:06,480 --> 04:40:09,417
protecting the most important hardwoods. And so we've taken

3954
04:40:09,417 --> 04:40:12,850
two really important steps. And I'll go through those in just a

3955
04:40:12,850 --> 04:40:15,823
minute to show how we've committed to those areas. The

3956
04:40:15,823 --> 04:40:18,826
tier is important because as I mentioned, even though we're

3957
04:40:18,826 --> 04:40:21,228
going forward with that by right density. So the same

3958
04:40:21,228 --> 04:40:24,231
amount of homes that we could put on the site today means the

3959
04:40:24,231 --> 04:40:26,967
same amount of cars that we can put on the roads today without

3960
04:40:26,967 --> 04:40:30,571
this annexation. But despite that, we've committed to the

3961
04:40:30,571 --> 04:40:32,973
improvements that you saw in the last case, which basically

3962
04:40:32,973 --> 04:40:36,643
means $1 million of improvements and turn lanes as

3963
04:40:36,643 --> 04:40:39,846
well as single signal timing that will help to alleviate

3964
04:40:39,846 --> 04:40:42,383
some of the concerns. You may here tonight from constituents

3965
04:40:42,383 --> 04:40:45,719
that will come with or without the annexation, because we're

3966
04:40:45,719 --> 04:40:48,589
allowed to put that same amount of cars on the road. What we

3967
04:40:48,589 --> 04:40:51,792
want to do tonight is be able to provide more certainty and

3968
04:40:51,792 --> 04:40:55,610
more public interest benefits by allowing the annexation that

3969
04:40:55,610 --> 04:40:58,264
allows us to carry forward not only these improvements, but

3970
04:40:58,264 --> 04:41:01,468
the improvements I spoke to about earlier. And here's where

3971
04:41:01,468 --> 04:41:04,804
it's really important, I think, to recognize the unusual and

3972
04:41:04,804 --> 04:41:09,209
unprecedented step that MI homes has taken. We've not only

3973
04:41:09,209 --> 04:41:11,812
talked about filing the conservation subdivision, we've

3974
04:41:11,812 --> 04:41:14,147
actually filed it. It's with the planning department. It

3975
04:41:14,147 --> 04:41:17,684
preserves 109 acres of open space, including 31 acres of

3976
04:41:17,684 --> 04:41:21,354
hardwood forest, 22 acres of wildlife corridors, and 14

3977
04:41:21,354 --> 04:41:24,892
acres of vegetated areas. We sent this around earlier last

3978
04:41:24,892 --> 04:41:27,694
week to to note that it had been filed to make sure that

3979
04:41:27,694 --> 04:41:31,631
all council knew it was on file and on record, and it's here on

3980
04:41:31,631 --> 04:41:35,350
your screen tonight. The open space overlaps with 60% of the

3981
04:41:35,350 --> 04:41:38,238
North Carolina Heritage Program areas otherwise eligible for

3982
04:41:38,238 --> 04:41:41,375
timbering. Now, the reason that's important is because the

3983
04:41:41,375 --> 04:41:44,111
director of the North Carolina Heritage Program, Misty

3984
04:41:44,111 --> 04:41:47,113
Copeland, has written you a letter that she sent over last

3985
04:41:47,113 --> 04:41:50,183
week in support of this approach in support of

3986
04:41:50,183 --> 04:41:53,453
conservation subdivision as the only protection that this North

3987
04:41:53,453 --> 04:41:57,524
Carolina Heritage Program has in order to protect these

3988
04:41:57,524 --> 04:42:00,194
trees. And it can sound tempting that this program is

3989
04:42:00,194 --> 04:42:03,263
in place and that it's part of the open space place type map.

3990
04:42:03,263 --> 04:42:06,400
But the reality is there is no protection for those hardwoods

3991
04:42:06,400 --> 04:42:10,137
today. Absent this annexation in this project going forward.

3992
04:42:10,137 --> 04:42:13,206
In fact, they're subject to a forestry plan, which we've

3993
04:42:13,206 --> 04:42:16,676
supplied a lot of information to you last week highlighting

3994
04:42:16,676 --> 04:42:20,147
how this property has been held for years and in conservation,

3995
04:42:20,147 --> 04:42:22,615
and will be subject to timbering, according to the

3996
04:42:22,615 --> 04:42:25,685
state program. Should this not be able to go forward. That's

3997
04:42:25,685 --> 04:42:28,889
just a reality of how this has been able to be preserved for

3998
04:42:28,889 --> 04:42:31,758
almost a century, and it will no longer be able to be

3999
04:42:31,758 --> 04:42:35,162
preserved should the annexation not be adopted. But what's

4000
04:42:35,162 --> 04:42:37,564
important about that is that although the annexation is

4001
04:42:37,564 --> 04:42:40,330
before you, and that's really the decision before you

4002
04:42:40,330 --> 04:42:43,370
tonight, these file documents show exactly how much of that

4003
04:42:43,370 --> 04:42:47,440
area is being preserved, and it overlaps substantially with

4004
04:42:47,440 --> 04:42:51,979
that program. In addition, that in addition to filing the

4005
04:42:51,979 --> 04:42:54,848
conservation subdivision was not just a filing. It's a it's

4006
04:42:54,848 --> 04:42:57,317
a very expensive fee that you have to pay. So it's showing

4007
04:42:57,317 --> 04:43:00,454
that good faith commitment to carry that forward. We heard

4008
04:43:00,454 --> 04:43:02,856
concerns about what if they don't pursue their conservation

4009
04:43:02,856 --> 04:43:05,459
subdivision? What if it's somebody else other than my

4010
04:43:05,459 --> 04:43:08,862
homes? And so we took the unprecedented step of recording

4011
04:43:08,862 --> 04:43:12,599
open space covenants against the property. Today they exist.

4012
04:43:12,599 --> 04:43:15,202
Today they will become effective that the annexation

4013
04:43:15,202 --> 04:43:18,472
is approved. And what it requires is not only the future

4014
04:43:18,472 --> 04:43:22,476
property owners being am I or the current owner. Any future

4015
04:43:22,476 --> 04:43:26,946
property owner has to respect the open space configuration

4016
04:43:26,946 --> 04:43:30,160
shown on the open space plan that was with our filed

4017
04:43:30,160 --> 04:43:32,886
conservation subdivision. Now, of course, your excellent staff

4018
04:43:32,886 --> 04:43:35,355
is going to have to have discretion on going through

4019
04:43:35,355 --> 04:43:38,292
their entire review of the conservation subdivision. But

4020
04:43:38,292 --> 04:43:41,161
what it says is essentially that exhibit that you see on

4021
04:43:41,161 --> 04:43:43,897
your screen with the recorded document on your screen is a

4022
04:43:43,897 --> 04:43:47,849
required element binding and legally binding on the land,

4023
04:43:47,849 --> 04:43:51,586
just like a a zoning condition would be. That requires us to

4024
04:43:51,586 --> 04:43:55,189
preserve at least 100 acres and complies with your Udo

4025
04:43:55,189 --> 04:43:58,659
maintenance requirements in 6.2 and four. So in addition to

4026
04:43:58,659 --> 04:44:00,995
addressing the density, the open space certainty, the

4027
04:44:00,995 --> 04:44:04,132
environmental protection, and the transportation commitments

4028
04:44:04,132 --> 04:44:07,135
here, this by right, zoning means that we are committing to

4029
04:44:07,135 --> 04:44:09,403
the same things that would have otherwise been in a higher

4030
04:44:09,403 --> 04:44:13,407
density case, and we've already worked with the various

4031
04:44:13,407 --> 04:44:15,810
decision makers to say that we're going through the

4032
04:44:15,810 --> 04:44:18,613
process. The Army Corps will review this when it's time.

4033
04:44:18,613 --> 04:44:21,483
They've confirmed that in writing, without the

4034
04:44:21,483 --> 04:44:24,850
infrastructure, without the annexation. I think it's

4035
04:44:24,850 --> 04:44:27,288
important to note that people like Miss Quinn will be relying

4036
04:44:27,288 --> 04:44:30,357
on capital improvement projects from the city. No sewer

4037
04:44:30,357 --> 04:44:33,361
extensions for the Queens or otherwise scheduled in the in

4038
04:44:33,361 --> 04:44:35,363
the difficult budget decisions you're going to have to be

4039
04:44:35,363 --> 04:44:39,330
making in the next two months, Historic preservation is also a

4040
04:44:39,330 --> 04:44:43,233
component preserve Durham. Excuse me? Preservation Durham

4041
04:44:43,505 --> 04:44:46,107
has confirmed in writing that they will take ownership of the

4042
04:44:46,107 --> 04:44:48,843
two acre parcel that it was previously committed, and

4043
04:44:48,843 --> 04:44:51,846
that's also been in your packet. So in addition to the

4044
04:44:51,846 --> 04:44:54,648
prior commitments now in the UEA, the utility extension

4045
04:44:54,648 --> 04:44:57,585
agreement, having those binding elements that the zoning case

4046
04:44:57,585 --> 04:45:00,855
otherwise had, we have the conservation subdivision plan

4047
04:45:00,855 --> 04:45:03,792
filed, we have the recorded open space covenants filed

4048
04:45:03,792 --> 04:45:07,595
protecting this North Carolina Natural Heritage Area in a way

4049
04:45:07,595 --> 04:45:10,865
that it doesn't otherwise have protections today means that

4050
04:45:10,865 --> 04:45:14,202
this is the most certainty possible at this stage to

4051
04:45:14,202 --> 04:45:17,471
provide more environmental protection and certainty than

4052
04:45:17,471 --> 04:45:20,740
the council and the community would otherwise have. By right,

4053
04:45:20,740 --> 04:45:23,770
with the same amount of housing and traffic as the county would

4054
04:45:23,770 --> 04:45:27,148
have by right, it's tempting in the face of opposition, to feel

4055
04:45:27,148 --> 04:45:30,170
that a no is kind of a good thing and serving the

4056
04:45:30,170 --> 04:45:33,888
community, but in this case, a no would actually not protect

4057
04:45:33,888 --> 04:45:36,891
the very trees that the community has really focused

4058
04:45:36,891 --> 04:45:39,561
on. The hardwoods that are part of this North Carolina heritage

4059
04:45:39,561 --> 04:45:42,297
program. It would not provide the sewer extensions or the

4060
04:45:42,297 --> 04:45:45,330
traffic extensions that have been so important to this

4061
04:45:45,330 --> 04:45:48,770
community. And so we ask that you give these trees the

4062
04:45:48,770 --> 04:45:51,172
production that they do not have the day and do the right

4063
04:45:51,172 --> 04:45:54,509
thing. And to vote yes on this annexation, I'd like to reserve

4064
04:45:54,509 --> 04:45:56,644
the rest of my time for Shawn Vanderslice to come up and

4065
04:45:56,644 --> 04:45:58,847
explain the innovative techniques we've used in the

4066
04:45:58,847 --> 04:46:03,470
conservation Subdivision Open Space Plan. Thank you.

4067
04:46:06,540 --> 04:46:09,391
Good evening, mayor and council members. I'll be brief here,

4068
04:46:09,391 --> 04:46:12,594
but from a I'm a landscape architect and land planner with

4069
04:46:12,594 --> 04:46:16,794
McAdams. Sorry. You're a bit taller. Yes.

4070
04:46:22,137 --> 04:46:26,730
So, from a community design and placemaking perspective, a

4071
04:46:26,730 --> 04:46:28,609
conservation subdivision for this development provides the

4072
04:46:28,609 --> 04:46:33,481
best avenue forward for Morgan Farm. So per the Udo, it not

4073
04:46:33,481 --> 04:46:35,817
only encourages but requires the conservation and

4074
04:46:35,817 --> 04:46:38,419
preservation of environmental features. And as we all know,

4075
04:46:38,419 --> 04:46:43,491
there's no shortage of those at this site. Per the Udo, our

4076
04:46:43,491 --> 04:46:48,960
plan preserves over 50% of the 218 acres. 40% of that is

4077
04:46:48,960 --> 04:46:51,432
floodplain, riparian buffers, wetland, wetlands, water

4078
04:46:51,432 --> 04:46:54,969
bodies, steep slopes, wildlife corridors, forest areas greater

4079
04:46:54,969 --> 04:46:59,240
than one acre in size. Our plan also includes secondary areas

4080
04:46:59,240 --> 04:47:02,443
that would include also stormwater control measures

4081
04:47:02,443 --> 04:47:06,180
that are designed as constructed wetlands, as seen

4082
04:47:06,180 --> 04:47:10,510
in this final graphic here, MI has entrusted our team to

4083
04:47:10,510 --> 04:47:13,654
develop an ecologically focused programming elements that will

4084
04:47:13,654 --> 04:47:15,857
further emphasize the significance of the project for

4085
04:47:15,857 --> 04:47:19,260
the Durham community, the elements you're seeing here are

4086
04:47:19,260 --> 04:47:22,129
not code required, but are crucial components to the

4087
04:47:22,129 --> 04:47:25,132
cohesive plan centered on ecosystem services and

4088
04:47:25,132 --> 04:47:28,469
environmental design. So internal trail networks connect

4089
04:47:28,469 --> 04:47:31,710
residents with nature, while untouched wildlife corridors

4090
04:47:31,710 --> 04:47:33,875
remain permanently protected to encourage existing ecologies to

4091
04:47:33,875 --> 04:47:36,677
continue to thrive. Where wildlife needs to cross

4092
04:47:36,677 --> 04:47:39,613
vehicular routes, for instance, added space and signage will be

4093
04:47:39,613 --> 04:47:42,830
provided. How much more time do you need?

4094
04:47:42,830 --> 04:47:45,886
A minute and a half. I have two minutes, please.

4095
04:47:45,886 --> 04:47:50,686
Thank you. Preservation of historical structures and the

4096
04:47:50,958 --> 04:47:53,894
voluntary implementation of Environmental Education program

4097
04:47:53,894 --> 04:47:55,963
will further set this development apart from the rest

4098
04:47:55,963 --> 04:47:59,167
in Durham. I want to end by just making sure to mention how

4099
04:47:59,167 --> 04:48:01,902
much the input of staff, council and the citizens of

4100
04:48:01,902 --> 04:48:04,305
Durham has impacted the way we've approached this project,

4101
04:48:04,305 --> 04:48:07,410
as well as the way that I've designed it for am I, and

4102
04:48:07,410 --> 04:48:09,577
worked with them to improve the project and the submission

4103
04:48:09,577 --> 04:48:12,980
tonight. The efforts that I detailed in terms of open space

4104
04:48:12,980 --> 04:48:15,916
and ecologically focused protections are not what would

4105
04:48:15,916 --> 04:48:18,252
be considered the easy way forward for a nationally

4106
04:48:18,252 --> 04:48:20,921
recognized home builder. But we feel this approach certainly

4107
04:48:20,921 --> 04:48:24,525
constitutes the best path forward. It's our hope that

4108
04:48:24,525 --> 04:48:27,195
Morgan Farm can serve as an example of ecologically

4109
04:48:27,195 --> 04:48:29,597
sensitive and innovative design in the residential market,

4110
04:48:29,597 --> 04:48:33,134
where it is desperately, desperately needed. We have

4111
04:48:33,134 --> 04:48:36,336
before us the ability to flip the narrative where the need

4112
04:48:36,336 --> 04:48:38,939
and desire for conservation of our landscapes works as a

4113
04:48:38,939 --> 04:48:42,210
valuable tool in addressing the unwavering need for places for

4114
04:48:42,210 --> 04:48:46,547
our citizens to to live. This is not unplanned, uncontrolled

4115
04:48:46,547 --> 04:48:50,840
urban sprawl because in this case, conservation is the

4116
04:48:50,840 --> 04:48:54,288
control. The overarching goal here as a designer was not to

4117
04:48:54,288 --> 04:48:57,691
design a neighborhood that simply exists in the woods, but

4118
04:48:57,691 --> 04:49:00,894
rather to build a community that coexists with nature in

4119
04:49:00,894 --> 04:49:04,232
ways that innovative, timeless and precedent. And with that,

4120
04:49:04,232 --> 04:49:10,370
I'll end my time, but happy to answer any questions. Thank you.

4121
04:49:10,370 --> 04:49:14,410
Thank you so much. All right. I'll start with my online

4122
04:49:14,410 --> 04:49:18,241
speakers. Kate Heim, can you hear me?

4123
04:49:29,924 --> 04:49:35,324
What should we see? Oh. All right, Laura McCall,

4124
04:49:38,599 --> 04:49:43,999
you have the presentation. Hi. Can you hear me?

4125
04:49:47,608 --> 04:49:51,208
Yes. Welcome. Laura, just one moment.

4126
04:49:51,812 --> 04:49:54,212
Sure. This is her.

4127
04:49:54,615 --> 04:49:59,415
Presentation. Okay. Is it Vivian? Is it multiple

4128
04:50:00,340 --> 04:50:04,172
slides, or is it just one? I do.

4129
04:50:04,172 --> 04:50:06,908
Not know. Is this one just this one?

4130
04:50:06,908 --> 04:50:09,444
Can you see it? Okay. All right. We can see it now.

4131
04:50:09,444 --> 04:50:13,647
Welcome. You have two minutes. Great. Morgan Farms first

4132
04:50:13,647 --> 04:50:17,719
submitted a new Tia and a PDR 2.5 rezoning that was quite

4133
04:50:17,719 --> 04:50:21,589
similar to what's before you tonight, a proposal for 560

4134
04:50:21,589 --> 04:50:24,726
mixed residential units and included a 5% affordable

4135
04:50:24,726 --> 04:50:29,630
housing commitment. The primary win now is the 50% open space

4136
04:50:29,630 --> 04:50:32,733
requirement, but the ability to provide open space was never

4137
04:50:32,733 --> 04:50:36,400
the real question. It was always what the applicant was

4138
04:50:36,400 --> 04:50:39,741
willing to pencil. In. This version increases open spaces

4139
04:50:39,741 --> 04:50:43,211
but removes affordable housing, lacks housing diversity and

4140
04:50:43,211 --> 04:50:46,147
avoids real, enforceable protections to run with the

4141
04:50:46,147 --> 04:50:49,284
land for historic sites, corridors, habitat, steep

4142
04:50:49,284 --> 04:50:52,420
slopes and stream buffers beyond the minimum. You know,

4143
04:50:52,420 --> 04:50:55,490
in many ways this appears less like a fundamentally new

4144
04:50:55,490 --> 04:50:58,626
proposal and more like a rebranding effort. Tagged as

4145
04:50:58,626 --> 04:51:01,896
conservation instead of a cluster design. And that

4146
04:51:01,896 --> 04:51:05,433
matters because what is lost in that shift is leverage.

4147
04:51:05,433 --> 04:51:08,103
Council's leverage is the ability to evaluate a major

4148
04:51:08,103 --> 04:51:11,105
land use change for a large and sensitive site through

4149
04:51:11,105 --> 04:51:14,575
transparency, scrutiny, and enforceable commitments that

4150
04:51:14,575 --> 04:51:18,379
protect the public interest. Instead, this approach approach

4151
04:51:18,379 --> 04:51:21,783
moves many of those issues into an administrative process where

4152
04:51:21,783 --> 04:51:25,986
the role is no longer to secure broader public benefits, and

4153
04:51:25,986 --> 04:51:30,525
the current ordinances with waivers and NPAs are not robust

4154
04:51:30,525 --> 04:51:34,929
enough for sites like this. Section 624 removed shall to

4155
04:51:34,929 --> 04:51:38,667
shift from clear requirements to suggested features. Much of

4156
04:51:38,667 --> 04:51:41,536
what's being discussed tonight could change later and still

4157
04:51:41,536 --> 04:51:45,600
remain compliant, the applicant told neighbors they would not

4158
04:51:45,600 --> 04:51:48,343
pursue subdivision without annexation, and that reveals

4159
04:51:48,343 --> 04:51:51,546
where a true leverage still sits. If development of this

4160
04:51:51,546 --> 04:51:55,216
site is only reasonable with utilities, then council has

4161
04:51:55,216 --> 04:51:59,487
every reason to use legislative authority granted to it. That

4162
04:51:59,487 --> 04:52:02,623
means asking whether this is the right project in the right

4163
04:52:02,623 --> 04:52:06,227
place, under the right terms. It means durable protections

4164
04:52:06,227 --> 04:52:09,430
beyond promises or good intentions, and it means

4165
04:52:09,430 --> 04:52:13,340
ensuring that public value, not just private feasibility, is

4166
04:52:13,340 --> 04:52:15,970
what drives the decision. Tonight is not simply about

4167
04:52:15,970 --> 04:52:19,400
whether something can be built, but whether Durham will use its

4168
04:52:19,400 --> 04:52:23,110
leverage wisely and not succumb so much from developers. Thank

4169
04:52:23,110 --> 04:52:26,110
you. Thank you. Katie Ross.

4170
04:52:34,522 --> 04:52:37,591
Hello? Can you hear me? Hey there. Yes, welcome. You

4171
04:52:37,591 --> 04:52:39,327
have two minutes. Okay.

4172
04:52:39,327 --> 04:52:44,465
Katie? Ross? Yes? I'm going to follow up, Laura, by talking

4173
04:52:44,465 --> 04:52:47,535
about conservation subdivision. I know quite a bit about this.

4174
04:52:47,535 --> 04:52:49,470
Because I've been. Involved from the beginning and

4175
04:52:49,470 --> 04:52:54,876
the Mason farms case, which was just resolved in favor of the

4176
04:52:54,876 --> 04:52:59,614
neighbors by the Court of Appeals. Oh, some of you were

4177
04:52:59,614 --> 04:53:04,752
taken on tours of some of the worst subdivisions in southeast

4178
04:53:04,752 --> 04:53:10,752
Durham by PRD. Electeds. I recall, were quite shocked at

4179
04:53:11,625 --> 04:53:15,763
what they saw, and they were stunned when they realized and

4180
04:53:15,763 --> 04:53:19,320
were told that the worst of those subdivisions with the

4181
04:53:19,320 --> 04:53:22,632
worst environmental destruction were conservation subdivisions.

4182
04:53:23,704 --> 04:53:27,375
How could that happen? Well, it turned out through the we

4183
04:53:27,375 --> 04:53:31,646
learned through this lawsuit that was Robin Barefoot lawsuit

4184
04:53:31,646 --> 04:53:36,250
that for years the planning department had been approving

4185
04:53:36,250 --> 04:53:40,450
15. They said conservation subdivisions without any regard

4186
04:53:41,522 --> 04:53:47,261
for the 12 purposes of the statute of the ordinance that

4187
04:53:47,261 --> 04:53:50,861
12 conservation oriented purposes and the planning

4188
04:53:51,799 --> 04:53:55,136
department was interpreting those as totally optional. They

4189
04:53:55,136 --> 04:53:59,540
were not enforcing them. So we have now learned that that was

4190
04:53:59,540 --> 04:54:04,780
wrong. And the court said that that those 12 purposes were

4191
04:54:04,780 --> 04:54:07,948
mandatory. But the planning department came and brought you

4192
04:54:07,948 --> 04:54:12,487
and you guys passed an amendment to the conservation

4193
04:54:12,487 --> 04:54:17,240
subdivision ordinance that removed the language that made

4194
04:54:17,240 --> 04:54:23,240
those purposes mandatory. So now you have the same statute

4195
04:54:24,432 --> 04:54:27,769
that allowed those horrible subdivisions, and it doesn't

4196
04:54:27,769 --> 04:54:33,769
even have the purposes enforceable at all. So what I'm

4197
04:54:34,708 --> 04:54:39,580
trying to say is do not be fooled by the name that this is

4198
04:54:39,580 --> 04:54:44,980
a conservation subdivision, conservation is only as good as

4199
04:54:45,252 --> 04:54:47,722
the enforcement, and they cannot be enforced.

4200
04:54:47,722 --> 04:54:53,722
Thank you. Thank you. And lastly, I have Elizabeth Miller.

4201
04:54:55,229 --> 04:54:58,829
Elizabeth, can you hear me? Hi.

4202
04:55:00,680 --> 04:55:06,680
Welcome. You have two minutes. Thank you. So the constraints

4203
04:55:06,140 --> 04:55:08,208
on this site are not hypothetical. They were

4204
04:55:08,208 --> 04:55:10,678
established during the prior Sheffield proposal and they

4205
04:55:10,678 --> 04:55:13,800
have not changed the environmental sensitivity

4206
04:55:13,800 --> 04:55:15,550
sensitivities, access limitations and infrastructure

4207
04:55:15,550 --> 04:55:18,953
challenges remain. By definition, this conservation

4208
04:55:18,953 --> 04:55:22,357
subdivision should have 50% open space and 80% of that has

4209
04:55:22,357 --> 04:55:25,760
to come from a primary list defined by the Udo. The staff

4210
04:55:25,760 --> 04:55:29,897
report tonight says there are no wildlife corridors on site.

4211
04:55:29,897 --> 04:55:32,900
The applicant has 22 acres of wildlife corridor as part of

4212
04:55:32,900 --> 04:55:37,571
the 80%. So do we know if these are existing corridors or are

4213
04:55:37,571 --> 04:55:41,771
they self identified theoretical corridors? The Open

4214
04:55:41,909 --> 04:55:46,313
Space report from 2025 notes that we should leave a 300 foot

4215
04:55:46,313 --> 04:55:49,784
buffer undisturbed next to the protected wetlands just north

4216
04:55:49,784 --> 04:55:53,530
of the Jordan Reservoir. Obviously, because that's going

4217
04:55:53,530 --> 04:55:55,790
to be our future water source. It seems a bit foolish to spend

4218
04:55:55,790 --> 04:55:57,992
millions of dollars to get water out of there, but then

4219
04:55:57,992 --> 04:56:01,595
not ensure we have that 300 foot buffer in place to protect

4220
04:56:01,595 --> 04:56:04,732
that source. So this conservation subdivision

4221
04:56:04,732 --> 04:56:07,614
doesn't eliminate these constraints. It postpones the

4222
04:56:07,614 --> 04:56:10,416
moment when the binding decisions are made. Truly, the

4223
04:56:10,416 --> 04:56:14,287
real problem is there are no mechanisms in place that make

4224
04:56:14,287 --> 04:56:17,423
sure that this is actually enforceable like they have an

4225
04:56:17,423 --> 04:56:20,250
application in. But when you annex today that's

4226
04:56:20,250 --> 04:56:24,497
irreversible. That application could be denied. So this isn't

4227
04:56:24,497 --> 04:56:28,101
a question of trust. It's a question of good governance.

4228
04:56:28,101 --> 04:56:31,103
And good governance requires that permanent actions be

4229
04:56:31,103 --> 04:56:33,306
matched with permanent protections that secure the

4230
04:56:33,306 --> 04:56:36,443
public benefits. So for those reasons, I respectfully urge

4231
04:56:36,443 --> 04:56:40,643
you to deny the annexation. Thank you.

4232
04:56:41,781 --> 04:56:47,187
Thank you so much. All right. I'm going to call five names at

4233
04:56:47,187 --> 04:56:52,659
a time. We can queue to my right. You're left. Julie

4234
04:56:52,659 --> 04:56:57,459
McClintock, Betsy Buchanan, Judy Tilson, Haley Sanders and

4235
04:57:00,466 --> 04:57:04,660
Barry Sanders. Thank you. Thank you.

4236
04:57:09,342 --> 04:57:11,742
Yes. No, I don't.

4237
04:57:13,120 --> 04:57:14,680
Good evening, Mayor Williams and.

4238
04:57:14,680 --> 04:57:17,750
City councilors. Thank you for your patience. My

4239
04:57:17,750 --> 04:57:20,553
name is Julie McClintock. My address is on record.

4240
04:57:20,553 --> 04:57:23,957
I am here to oppose the minimization request and

4241
04:57:23,957 --> 04:57:28,495
explain the drawbacks of using translational rezoning for the

4242
04:57:28,495 --> 04:57:32,980
Morgan Farm project. Despite the glowing report you heard

4243
04:57:32,980 --> 04:57:35,768
earlier, translational rezoning was created as an

4244
04:57:35,768 --> 04:57:39,839
administrative tool to maintain zoning continuity when small

4245
04:57:39,839 --> 04:57:43,710
properties move from county to city, it was never intended to

4246
04:57:43,710 --> 04:57:46,913
serve as a back door entitlement for large projects,

4247
04:57:46,913 --> 04:57:51,517
which should undergo meaningful review. While the zoning label

4248
04:57:51,517 --> 04:57:54,720
may remain residential rural, we know that approving

4249
04:57:54,720 --> 04:57:57,856
annexation would allow MI homes to connect to city water and

4250
04:57:57,856 --> 04:58:02,394
sewer, and to achieve urban densities for a very large

4251
04:58:02,394 --> 04:58:06,265
parcel. This would result in hundreds of units being exempt

4252
04:58:06,265 --> 04:58:11,336
from a full review. Here are two strong reasons not to annex

4253
04:58:11,336 --> 04:58:15,207
this property. First, approving annexation would allow

4254
04:58:15,207 --> 04:58:19,780
translational rezoning to bypass the normal safeguards

4255
04:58:19,780 --> 04:58:22,415
the council relies on, including comprehensive impact

4256
04:58:22,415 --> 04:58:25,885
analysis and mitigation measures that is reasonable for

4257
04:58:25,885 --> 04:58:30,356
single home, but not for a multi hundred unit project with

4258
04:58:30,356 --> 04:58:34,556
regional impacts. Second, if annexation were approved,

4259
04:58:34,760 --> 04:58:38,697
proffers could disappear. The city would lose the ability to

4260
04:58:38,697 --> 04:58:42,635
negotiate bonding, conservation and phasing conditions such as

4261
04:58:42,635 --> 04:58:47,435
affordable housing, sidewalks, additional open space. We will

4262
04:58:48,107 --> 04:58:52,511
lose the ability to see what we are getting, like buying a pig

4263
04:58:52,511 --> 04:58:56,515
in a poke. This is not about opposing development. It is

4264
04:58:56,515 --> 04:58:59,185
about ensuring that this development is reviewed by

4265
04:58:59,185 --> 04:59:03,256
staff, residents and you through a transparent public

4266
04:59:03,256 --> 04:59:06,859
process where we know what we are getting. It is about

4267
04:59:06,859 --> 04:59:09,862
insisting on a thoughtful review of an application that

4268
04:59:09,862 --> 04:59:13,733
will cause environmental harm and severe traffic congestion

4269
04:59:13,733 --> 04:59:17,803
over a wide area. Please follow the lead of your Planning

4270
04:59:17,803 --> 04:59:21,474
Commission and reject this request. Thank you.

4271
04:59:21,474 --> 04:59:25,674
Thank you. Welcome. You have two minutes.

4272
04:59:40,759 --> 04:59:43,759
I'm all right. Okay. Let's.

4273
04:59:46,499 --> 04:59:49,499
It's. Good evening, Mayor Williams.

4274
04:59:50,837 --> 04:59:54,240
City council members. My name is Betsy Buchanan and my name

4275
04:59:54,240 --> 04:59:58,911
is on. Address is on file. Morgan Farm, formerly

4276
04:59:58,911 --> 05:00:02,114
Sheffield, was withdrawn. Has withdrawn their proposed plan.

4277
05:00:02,114 --> 05:00:05,651
An original rezoning request, and tonight only seek

4278
05:00:05,651 --> 05:00:10,123
annexation. Last year, when the City Council denied Sheffield

4279
05:00:10,123 --> 05:00:14,193
one labor member in favor stated by the loudly this land

4280
05:00:14,193 --> 05:00:19,465
will be developed. And my question tonight to you is why?

4281
05:00:19,465 --> 05:00:23,803
Why does every inch of Durham County have to be developed?

4282
05:00:23,803 --> 05:00:27,140
And why would a developer seek annexation unless they plan to

4283
05:00:27,140 --> 05:00:30,743
develop in my homes, made modifications to their site

4284
05:00:30,743 --> 05:00:34,347
proposal prior to changing their rezoning request?

4285
05:00:34,347 --> 05:00:39,285
However, none of these changes address the very real problems.

4286
05:00:39,285 --> 05:00:43,355
If taken into the city, then their plan comes to light. But

4287
05:00:43,355 --> 05:00:46,892
no plan can ever overcome the difficulties and obstacles that

4288
05:00:46,892 --> 05:00:51,364
face building on that property. Again, I say this is not about

4289
05:00:51,364 --> 05:00:55,501
locals resisting development. This is about recognizing the

4290
05:00:55,501 --> 05:00:59,705
facts of trying to develop in this area. Morgan Farm would

4291
05:00:59,705 --> 05:01:02,841
add about 1000 cars daily through their three exits

4292
05:01:02,841 --> 05:01:07,379
directly onto Farrington Mill. Already stressed land along

4293
05:01:07,379 --> 05:01:10,450
Farrington Mill is part of the watershed for Jordan Lake, a

4294
05:01:10,450 --> 05:01:13,920
source of drinking water for Durham. The property has

4295
05:01:13,920 --> 05:01:17,590
historical evidence that has raised unanswered questions

4296
05:01:17,590 --> 05:01:21,393
and, if annexed, may never be answered. Morgan Farm may not

4297
05:01:21,393 --> 05:01:25,640
be a wildlife corridor, but the animals don't know that this

4298
05:01:25,640 --> 05:01:29,201
area provides wildlife a safe haven not disturbed by cars or

4299
05:01:29,201 --> 05:01:33,806
guns, providing sewer is a huge issue, especially since there

4300
05:01:33,806 --> 05:01:37,409
is also a timing issue with the repair of the bridge near

4301
05:01:37,409 --> 05:01:42,815
Stagecoach Road. Tonight, you decide if Morgan Farm will be

4302
05:01:42,815 --> 05:01:47,190
annexed into the city of Durham. Current proposed plans

4303
05:01:47,190 --> 05:01:50,890
and proffers are not binding and your decision is

4304
05:01:50,890 --> 05:01:55,895
irreversible. Please do the right thing and vote no for

4305
05:01:55,895 --> 05:01:58,295
this request. Thank you.

4306
05:02:18,394 --> 05:02:20,263
That's fine. That's fine. I think I should

4307
05:02:20,263 --> 05:02:23,263
say good. Morning. Thank you.

4308
05:02:23,533 --> 05:02:26,603
All for saying. So much. Good morning.

4309
05:02:26,603 --> 05:02:30,600
My name is Judy Tilson and I live just south of the proposed

4310
05:02:30,600 --> 05:02:34,100
development site. My address is on record. I'm here to share

4311
05:02:34,100 --> 05:02:37,747
concerns about the proposed annexation for Morgan Farm. The

4312
05:02:37,747 --> 05:02:40,951
character of this area is fundamentally rural. Despite

4313
05:02:40,951 --> 05:02:44,754
its designation as a mixed use neighborhood place type in two

4314
05:02:44,754 --> 05:02:48,224
areas on either side or designated as recreation and

4315
05:02:48,224 --> 05:02:52,290
open space. The intent of a mixed use neighborhood is to

4316
05:02:52,290 --> 05:02:55,980
support communities where residents can meet most daily

4317
05:02:55,980 --> 05:02:58,902
needs within a 15 minute walk or bike ride, including

4318
05:02:58,902 --> 05:03:01,705
groceries, schools, parks, pharmacies, restaurants,

4319
05:03:01,705 --> 05:03:05,108
libraries, and health care. Rural areas are highly car

4320
05:03:05,108 --> 05:03:08,444
dependent. The nearest public transit is approximately an

4321
05:03:08,444 --> 05:03:11,714
hour's walk away, and essentially daily needs such as

4322
05:03:11,714 --> 05:03:15,651
groceries and fuel are roughly 2 to 3 miles from the site, and

4323
05:03:15,651 --> 05:03:18,722
you have in front of you the list of the how far it is to

4324
05:03:18,722 --> 05:03:21,391
Food Lion and Harris, Teeter and Rowntree, and they're all 2

4325
05:03:21,391 --> 05:03:26,662
to 3 miles away, and there are no sidewalks. Now, as a woman

4326
05:03:26,662 --> 05:03:29,332
who's trying to get more exercise, I know exactly how

4327
05:03:29,332 --> 05:03:32,935
far away that is. And that's a long distance for anybody to

4328
05:03:32,935 --> 05:03:38,740
go. So annexation implies that the city will provide these

4329
05:03:38,740 --> 05:03:41,110
services, and it simply cannot. And obviously we've heard

4330
05:03:41,110 --> 05:03:44,147
tonight it doesn't. There's also no bus transportation

4331
05:03:44,147 --> 05:03:47,483
that's convenient. Please oppose this request. And thank

4332
05:03:47,483 --> 05:03:52,283
you for staying up so late. Thank you.

4333
05:04:31,600 --> 05:04:34,864
Trick in the millennial. I'm Haley Sanders. I now live

4334
05:04:34,864 --> 05:04:35,732
in Chapel. Hill, but my.

4335
05:04:35,732 --> 05:04:39,202
Childhood home, my parents home is in the downs neighborhood. I

4336
05:04:39,202 --> 05:04:41,710
spent much of my life less. Than a half mile.

4337
05:04:41,710 --> 05:04:44,474
Downstream from the bottom of this image. I asked that the

4338
05:04:44,474 --> 05:04:45,341
council vote. No.

4339
05:04:45,341 --> 05:04:48,611
On the annexation of Morgan Farm property. My remarks

4340
05:04:48,611 --> 05:04:51,280
concerned the threats that this commercial request presents to

4341
05:04:51,280 --> 05:04:54,884
our waterways. The first and most immediate threat comes

4342
05:04:54,884 --> 05:04:58,154
from the new sewer main that annexation would require the

4343
05:04:58,154 --> 05:05:00,890
route of the sewer main. According to Sheffield, would

4344
05:05:00,890 --> 05:05:04,260
follow on the southeastern side of Farrington Road, the sewer

4345
05:05:04,260 --> 05:05:06,362
main would cross Little Creek, southeast of the Little Creek

4346
05:05:06,362 --> 05:05:09,566
Bridge. This Google Earth image shows how the bridge and the

4347
05:05:09,566 --> 05:05:11,834
Army Corps levee already artificially constrain a

4348
05:05:11,834 --> 05:05:17,107
braided, marshy stream to a single channel. It's important

4349
05:05:17,107 --> 05:05:20,310
to put in the context of the planned replacement of Little

4350
05:05:20,310 --> 05:05:23,713
Creek Bridge, which you'll hear more about later to accommodate

4351
05:05:23,713 --> 05:05:26,382
the southeastern shift of the new bridge relative to the old

4352
05:05:26,382 --> 05:05:28,918
bridge, this new sewer main would have to cross Little

4353
05:05:28,918 --> 05:05:31,454
Creek and intrude on the protected falls. Jordan Lake

4354
05:05:31,454 --> 05:05:34,857
watershed. If this sewer line were buried, it would bring

4355
05:05:34,857 --> 05:05:37,460
huge disturbances in downstream. Silting of the

4356
05:05:37,460 --> 05:05:39,929
braided stream bed of Little Creek within the critical

4357
05:05:39,929 --> 05:05:43,799
protection zone of the lake. A district, a lake. If the sewer

4358
05:05:43,799 --> 05:05:46,469
line has to be moved around a bridge replacement that

4359
05:05:46,469 --> 05:05:51,875
multiplies the havoc. If the sewer line crossed the creek

4360
05:05:51,875 --> 05:05:54,410
above stream grade, it would be vulnerable to other kinds of

4361
05:05:54,410 --> 05:05:58,347
damage and leakage. You'll hear more on this later. Sewer lines

4362
05:05:58,347 --> 05:06:01,283
do not guarantee the protection of sensitive waterways, most

4363
05:06:01,283 --> 05:06:03,886
certainly not in their construction phases, and not

4364
05:06:03,886 --> 05:06:08,240
from corporate interests. If you all sign off on the

4365
05:06:08,240 --> 05:06:11,940
annexation, I won't get to publicly comment again. So on a

4366
05:06:11,940 --> 05:06:14,364
personal note, I've been swimming, canoeing, swamping

4367
05:06:14,364 --> 05:06:17,367
around in Little Creek, new Hope Creek, and Jordan Lake,

4368
05:06:17,367 --> 05:06:20,103
and in the stream bed behind my house. My whole life, my

4369
05:06:20,103 --> 05:06:23,380
family's current phablet activity is watching our dogs

4370
05:06:23,380 --> 05:06:25,441
get the zoomies in the same stream bed my sister and I

4371
05:06:25,441 --> 05:06:28,445
played in with rubber duckies children. The most important

4372
05:06:28,445 --> 05:06:30,847
times in my life are water based activities very near the

4373
05:06:30,847 --> 05:06:33,716
sewer proposal. I'm not done making memories on this

4374
05:06:33,716 --> 05:06:38,516
protected watershed. Thank you. As Mr. Berry is

4375
05:06:41,458 --> 05:06:48,658
coming up, I can ask Kate Haim. There she is. Elizabeth Bibi.

4376
05:06:51,667 --> 05:06:58,267
More bets. Field bets. Field. Jon Cohen and Tom Galloway to

4377
05:06:58,608 --> 05:07:01,800
come up. Welcome. Mayor.

4378
05:07:03,346 --> 05:07:06,883
Council members. I'm Barry Saunders. I live at 8110

4379
05:07:06,883 --> 05:07:11,830
Kennebec Drive, Durham County. On watershed protection.

4380
05:07:11,487 --> 05:07:12,822
The Morgan. Farm parcel.

4381
05:07:12,822 --> 05:07:15,692
Is a mostly forested plateau overlooking.

4382
05:07:15,692 --> 05:07:17,560
The. Morgan Creek floodplain, a mile

4383
05:07:17,560 --> 05:07:20,830
and a half from the creek's connection to Jordan Lake. The

4384
05:07:20,830 --> 05:07:24,567
critical watershed boundary runs close. That creek.

4385
05:07:24,567 --> 05:07:28,371
Floodplain has been awash in Jordan backwaters several times

4386
05:07:28,371 --> 05:07:32,375
these last decades. Much of the Morgan Farm west boundary has

4387
05:07:32,375 --> 05:07:37,775
been flood waters, shoreline. In prior comments to this

4388
05:07:39,449 --> 05:07:43,253
council, I showed deeply eroded basins of intermittent streams

4389
05:07:43,253 --> 05:07:46,522
draining the west edge of the property. That's with mature

4390
05:07:46,522 --> 05:07:49,859
forest around them. I showed cutting of slopes from

4391
05:07:49,859 --> 05:07:54,590
significant subsurface water movement. I described major

4392
05:07:54,864 --> 05:07:58,734
slope along that west property edge. I also suggested the site

4393
05:07:58,734 --> 05:08:02,471
surveyor may have undercounted areas of officially steep slope

4394
05:08:02,471 --> 05:08:07,871
25% or more. Today you weigh a sparse annexation proposal

4395
05:08:08,545 --> 05:08:11,548
without many enforceable details about development that

4396
05:08:11,548 --> 05:08:16,353
will follow. Late timing is strategic, but indulge just one

4397
05:08:16,353 --> 05:08:20,823
look at their pinky promise conservation subdivision site

4398
05:08:20,823 --> 05:08:23,159
plan, which we won't have a chance to address if you

4399
05:08:23,159 --> 05:08:26,429
approve annexation, there's plenty of paving and building

4400
05:08:26,429 --> 05:08:30,309
planned through sloped and eroded topography along

4401
05:08:30,309 --> 05:08:33,846
ephemeral and intermittent streams, and where subsurface

4402
05:08:33,846 --> 05:08:38,500
water movement occurs as well. Turning so much existing forest

4403
05:08:38,500 --> 05:08:41,721
into so much impervious surface would still bring a huge shift

4404
05:08:41,721 --> 05:08:45,560
in how stormwater is delivered to Morgan Creek. Despite

4405
05:08:45,560 --> 05:08:47,993
engineered containment, retention ponds would not

4406
05:08:47,993 --> 05:08:51,597
prevent significant increase in new toxins and new nutrients

4407
05:08:51,597 --> 05:08:54,200
draining to a wetland and stream that are already

4408
05:08:54,200 --> 05:08:58,400
nutrient sensitive. Development here would still increase.

4409
05:08:59,138 --> 05:09:02,875
Durham's already significant contribution to the impairment

4410
05:09:02,875 --> 05:09:06,145
and eutrophication of northern Jordan Lake, a drinking water

4411
05:09:06,145 --> 05:09:10,215
supply. For many, the future expense of mitigating this

4412
05:09:10,215 --> 05:09:13,219
impairment of a vital environmental resource is not

4413
05:09:13,219 --> 05:09:17,356
shown on any cost benefit analysis. I've seen. Thank you

4414
05:09:17,356 --> 05:09:20,956
for your time. Thank you. Welcome.

4415
05:09:37,443 --> 05:09:39,912
All right. Good evening. City council members. Mayor.

4416
05:09:39,912 --> 05:09:42,248
Mayor pro tem, my name is Kate. Haim and I.

4417
05:09:42,248 --> 05:09:45,500
Live on Kennebec Drive in the downs neighborhood.

4418
05:09:45,500 --> 05:09:47,787
Most importantly. On the environmental side, I

4419
05:09:47,787 --> 05:09:50,256
think is the translational rezoning does not provide any

4420
05:09:50,256 --> 05:09:53,580
security or transparency for whatever development happens on

4421
05:09:53,580 --> 05:09:56,261
this site as a sensitive area identified by the Durham Open

4422
05:09:56,261 --> 05:09:58,664
Space Program and the North Carolina Natural Heritage

4423
05:09:58,664 --> 05:10:01,267
Program, development here deserves intentional and

4424
05:10:01,267 --> 05:10:03,736
transparent planning for review and approval of the City

4425
05:10:03,736 --> 05:10:06,538
Council. The need for this oversight is reinforced by the

4426
05:10:06,538 --> 05:10:10,208
most recently proposed plan, distributed last week by Morgan

4427
05:10:10,208 --> 05:10:12,611
Farms for conservation subdivision, which does not

4428
05:10:12,611 --> 05:10:15,481
adequately address the concerns. This would not be

4429
05:10:15,481 --> 05:10:18,150
reimbursable even if it was adequate, but it's not.

4430
05:10:18,150 --> 05:10:23,756
Submission of an application is not a commitment. The this plan

4431
05:10:23,756 --> 05:10:27,293
violates the Durham Comprehensive Plan policies 79

4432
05:10:27,293 --> 05:10:30,280
to protect Durham's most ecologically sensitive areas

4433
05:10:30,280 --> 05:10:33,980
from the impacts of development policy 81. Protect the most

4434
05:10:33,980 --> 05:10:36,350
environmental sensitive portions of the site and policy

4435
05:10:36,350 --> 05:10:38,704
83. Existing habitat and wildlife movement corridors

4436
05:10:38,704 --> 05:10:41,507
should be left largely undisturbed, including that and

4437
05:10:41,507 --> 05:10:43,708
identified in the North Carolina Natural Heritage

4438
05:10:43,708 --> 05:10:46,379
Program. All of these policies are considered to have the

4439
05:10:46,379 --> 05:10:49,515
greatest impact on development cases, and should be weighed as

4440
05:10:49,515 --> 05:10:54,120
such. And these maps you can see the identified areas of

4441
05:10:54,120 --> 05:10:56,789
priority with the Wildlife Habitat Connectivity map

4442
05:10:56,789 --> 05:11:00,258
showing the most of the parcel, with a minimum of high priority

4443
05:11:00,258 --> 05:11:03,662
areas of higher and highest priority. The red circles show

4444
05:11:03,662 --> 05:11:05,997
the largest area of highest priority, with the green double

4445
05:11:05,997 --> 05:11:08,734
arrow added by me as a suggested wildlife corridor or,

4446
05:11:08,734 --> 05:11:11,670
most appropriate. The pink boxes are the Morgan Farms

4447
05:11:11,670 --> 05:11:14,740
proposed wildlife corridors. This is the most recently

4448
05:11:14,740 --> 05:11:20,545
proposed map received last week by the neighbors. You can see

4449
05:11:20,545 --> 05:11:22,414
there is not a wildlife corridor in the highest

4450
05:11:22,414 --> 05:11:25,551
priority area. Animals would have to cross two roads, one

4451
05:11:25,551 --> 05:11:28,487
alley, three rows of houses likely with fenced yards,

4452
05:11:28,487 --> 05:11:30,956
preventing access and or endangering lives of animals

4453
05:11:30,956 --> 05:11:34,293
attempting to go through here. The final graphic that was

4454
05:11:34,293 --> 05:11:38,431
shown by the the individual here tonight was not shared. So

4455
05:11:38,431 --> 05:11:41,700
this does not reflect this. There are more responsible ways

4456
05:11:41,700 --> 05:11:44,170
to do this. Thank you.

4457
05:11:44,170 --> 05:11:46,570
Thank you, thank. You.

4458
05:11:59,651 --> 05:12:03,851
But I want. Full screen. Is the.

4459
05:12:09,462 --> 05:12:11,462
Control panel. Oh.

4460
05:12:15,534 --> 05:12:18,737
My name is. Elizabeth Moore. and my.

4461
05:12:18,737 --> 05:12:23,542
Address is on record. Few words tonight. Permanent conservation

4462
05:12:23,542 --> 05:12:24,609
is possible. For.

4463
05:12:24,609 --> 05:12:28,130
This property. The land is being looked at by local

4464
05:12:28,130 --> 05:12:31,283
national conservation organizations for purchase, for

4465
05:12:31,283 --> 05:12:34,283
permanent permanent conservation protection. And

4466
05:12:35,821 --> 05:12:40,920
look, Durham and City Council would then have a public park

4467
05:12:40,920 --> 05:12:45,498
or a nature preserve. What a good solution to this. Okay,

4468
05:12:45,498 --> 05:12:49,167
now I have to go here. I want to be clear that my concern is

4469
05:12:49,167 --> 05:12:52,705
not with annexation or development. Again, it's is

4470
05:12:52,705 --> 05:12:57,430
this appropriate for this location? Why are you not

4471
05:12:57,430 --> 05:13:01,243
advancing a comprehensive plan emphasizes context sensitive

4472
05:13:02,381 --> 05:13:05,981
development. Appropriate transitions and density, and

4473
05:13:06,852 --> 05:13:10,389
directing higher density housing to areas with adequate

4474
05:13:10,389 --> 05:13:14,259
infrastructure. Here you see orange, Durham, Chatham and

4475
05:13:14,259 --> 05:13:17,997
Wake County, and there's a confluence of seven linked

4476
05:13:17,997 --> 05:13:21,466
natural corridors. Do you see that dark green up in the upper

4477
05:13:21,466 --> 05:13:26,539
left hand corner? It's like a Y shape. And then it goes down

4478
05:13:26,539 --> 05:13:32,611
south, to the east, to the head of, you guessed it, Jordan

4479
05:13:32,611 --> 05:13:36,148
Lake. And the red arrow shows you where this property is

4480
05:13:36,148 --> 05:13:43,756
located. Now two deers. Oh hi, dear one, how do you get to the

4481
05:13:43,756 --> 05:13:48,360
Wildlife Conservation Trail? I don't know, deer, but I think

4482
05:13:48,360 --> 05:13:52,364
you go 30 steps to the left and 30 steps to the right. And then

4483
05:13:52,364 --> 05:13:58,703
two miles down the road, if you run, you'll be safe. Well, this

4484
05:13:58,703 --> 05:14:05,303
has to be a corridor following water and tree coverage. I'm

4485
05:14:05,711 --> 05:14:11,111
going backwards. So I said my part. Thank you.

4486
05:14:15,454 --> 05:14:19,540
Thank you, Mr. Miller. Good evening.

4487
05:14:39,620 --> 05:14:43,557
Mayor Williams. And Durham City Council. I'm

4488
05:14:43,557 --> 05:14:49,563
Beth's field addresses on file. As noted in the rezoning report

4489
05:14:49,563 --> 05:14:55,435
and shown here in the plat, the site hosts two historic

4490
05:14:55,435 --> 05:15:00,835
buildings. The antebellum Hutchens Farm and a double log

4491
05:15:00,841 --> 05:15:05,179
pen slave quarters. The Hutchinson family and their

4492
05:15:05,179 --> 05:15:10,184
slaves farmed cotton, tobacco, and other crops. In 2020 for

4493
05:15:10,184 --> 05:15:15,122
preservation, Durham toured the site with the developer and

4494
05:15:15,122 --> 05:15:19,322
found both buildings suitable for preservation. Additionally,

4495
05:15:19,927 --> 05:15:24,131
there is credible evidence for a burial ground for the

4496
05:15:24,131 --> 05:15:28,331
enslaved. The NC Natural Heritage Program Property

4497
05:15:29,804 --> 05:15:34,604
assessment for Sheffield Farms. References. A possible Old

4498
05:15:35,409 --> 05:15:40,147
Burial ground and non-native plants historically used in

4499
05:15:40,147 --> 05:15:45,547
landscaping, such as periwinkle graves of the enslaved, were

4500
05:15:45,686 --> 05:15:50,291
often simply marked with stones or nothing, but periwinkle was

4501
05:15:50,291 --> 05:15:55,910
the most common wildflower brought to gravesites by

4502
05:15:55,296 --> 05:15:58,896
enslaved Americans. This perennial has guided

4503
05:15:59,900 --> 05:16:04,704
researchers to many abandoned burial sites that would have

4504
05:16:04,704 --> 05:16:08,304
otherwise gone undetected. When planning commissioners

4505
05:16:10,111 --> 05:16:14,849
questioned the developer about gravesites, their response was

4506
05:16:14,849 --> 05:16:19,920
basically, if anything turns up its site plan or build will

4507
05:16:19,920 --> 05:16:25,859
abide by the laws in place for disturbed burial sites. Because

4508
05:16:25,859 --> 05:16:31,259
the application has taken a certain approach by requesting

4509
05:16:31,399 --> 05:16:35,670
annexation, they were not required to address or

4510
05:16:35,670 --> 05:16:39,870
acknowledge any of this. Approving annexation without

4511
05:16:40,541 --> 05:16:45,680
fully addressing the documented history of this property risk.

4512
05:16:45,680 --> 05:16:51,680
Thank you. Irreversible harm. Thank you. Thank you very much.

4513
05:16:52,753 --> 05:16:56,953
Hello again. I have my AV specialist.

4514
05:17:03,296 --> 05:17:06,296
She's everyone's AV specialist tonight.

4515
05:17:07,300 --> 05:17:10,638
Okay. Are we ready to go?

4516
05:17:10,638 --> 05:17:12,638
You tell. Me.

4517
05:17:12,840 --> 05:17:15,410
You speak to the microphone. Hi.

4518
05:17:15,410 --> 05:17:21,410
I'm John Cowan, the owner of. The 112 acre farm directly

4519
05:17:21,649 --> 05:17:25,510
across Farrington Mill from the proposed project. My address is

4520
05:17:25,510 --> 05:17:29,251
include 8301 and 8303 Farrington Mill. And these are

4521
05:17:29,390 --> 05:17:31,725
directly across from the proposed outlets for hundreds

4522
05:17:31,725 --> 05:17:36,463
of cars per day. Now, these guys admit that 40% of the

4523
05:17:36,463 --> 05:17:40,534
property is is critical wetlands on my side of the

4524
05:17:40,534 --> 05:17:44,471
road, we have hooded merganser, buffalo heads, kingfishers,

4525
05:17:44,471 --> 05:17:48,676
osprey and we are searching for bald eagle nests. The current

4526
05:17:48,676 --> 05:17:51,412
plans for the Western Water Project pipeline, which I

4527
05:17:51,412 --> 05:17:54,810
support, are to use the right of way along Farrington Mill,

4528
05:17:54,810 --> 05:17:56,830
right where they say they're going to do all this

4529
05:17:56,830 --> 05:18:00,420
construction and put in turn lanes, building hundreds of

4530
05:18:00,420 --> 05:18:02,956
units directly north of the new water treatment plant is

4531
05:18:02,956 --> 05:18:07,156
contradictory. Federal law limits timbering to renewable

4532
05:18:07,762 --> 05:18:12,562
sectional timbering, not clear cutting. I'm committed myself

4533
05:18:13,233 --> 05:18:16,570
to run my horse, sheep, hay and honey farm and ensure our vital

4534
05:18:16,570 --> 05:18:19,973
and growing rural community continues forward forever. This

4535
05:18:19,973 --> 05:18:23,777
is not an unused area. We are an active and vital established

4536
05:18:23,777 --> 05:18:27,247
community. That this proposal would change forever. The area

4537
05:18:27,247 --> 05:18:30,251
must be restricted to rural farming and single family

4538
05:18:30,251 --> 05:18:32,987
homes. It's not a simple filling of an urban area. This

4539
05:18:32,987 --> 05:18:36,657
proposal is going from 0 to 1000, destroying our natural

4540
05:18:36,657 --> 05:18:40,861
resources forever. This land is an ungainly finger of intrusion

4541
05:18:40,861 --> 05:18:43,864
impacting all areas around it. Between large tracts of land

4542
05:18:43,864 --> 05:18:46,667
committed to long term preservation, triangle land

4543
05:18:46,667 --> 05:18:49,136
conservancy and other conservancy organizations are

4544
05:18:49,136 --> 05:18:52,406
actively attempting to purchase competitively. This property.

4545
05:18:52,406 --> 05:18:56,770
Already, I've committed my land to the Voluntary Agriculture

4546
05:18:56,770 --> 05:18:59,213
District for ten years, joining at least two other properties

4547
05:18:59,213 --> 05:19:03,830
nearby. I have 17 people who work for the farm and several

4548
05:19:03,830 --> 05:19:06,620
live their low cost housing. We raise honeybees and hay and

4549
05:19:06,620 --> 05:19:09,290
produce sheep, a source of meat to underserved ethnic

4550
05:19:09,290 --> 05:19:12,492
communities in North Carolina. We have a large equestrian

4551
05:19:12,492 --> 05:19:16,630
resource center employing North Carolina State AG program grads

4552
05:19:16,630 --> 05:19:18,632
and students, supporting and teaching the people who will

4553
05:19:18,632 --> 05:19:24,632
grow your food tomorrow. And as my. You, Tom Galloway.

4554
05:19:40,540 --> 05:19:44,324
Yep. All right. So after Tom will be

4555
05:19:44,324 --> 05:19:49,724
host Farley, Joe Segura, Eddie Williamson, Dana Young and

4556
05:19:50,864 --> 05:19:55,664
Larry Cheatham. Good evening. My name is Tom

4557
05:19:57,137 --> 05:20:01,608
Galloway. My address is on file. Here are two maps. This

4558
05:20:01,608 --> 05:20:05,412
map shows a three mile radius around Morgan Farm. Notice the

4559
05:20:05,412 --> 05:20:08,682
major transportation corridors around the perimeter. 501 to

4560
05:20:08,682 --> 05:20:14,210
the west, 54 and I-40 to the north, and 751 to the east. Our

4561
05:20:14,210 --> 05:20:17,758
local roads are in the center, including Farrington Mill Road,

4562
05:20:17,758 --> 05:20:20,961
the yellow Dot marks Morgan Farm, and the Red line shows

4563
05:20:20,961 --> 05:20:25,899
the proposed sewer route. Let's take a closer look. The green

4564
05:20:25,899 --> 05:20:28,835
space in the center is primarily Army Corps protected

4565
05:20:28,835 --> 05:20:33,400
land. Every local road passes through Army Corps land and is

4566
05:20:33,400 --> 05:20:36,576
subject to strict constraints and regulations. These roads

4567
05:20:36,576 --> 05:20:40,847
have a finite capacity and they are already near it. This map

4568
05:20:40,847 --> 05:20:44,184
also shows 17 housing developments. The red dots

4569
05:20:44,184 --> 05:20:48,395
totaling nearly 7400 units that have been advanced since

4570
05:20:48,395 --> 05:20:52,600
November of 2022. Notice they're located near the major

4571
05:20:52,600 --> 05:20:56,604
highway corridors. There are no developments on our local roads

4572
05:20:56,604 --> 05:21:01,475
except proposed Morgan Farm. Recall Bryn Ward the black ex

4573
05:21:01,475 --> 05:21:06,613
was denied by this city Council on January 20th of this year.

4574
05:21:06,613 --> 05:21:09,617
Our primary highways are already congested and traffic

4575
05:21:09,617 --> 05:21:13,621
is diverting onto our local roads. Farrington mill is the

4576
05:21:13,621 --> 05:21:16,891
main commuter bypass between Durham, Chatham and Orange

4577
05:21:16,891 --> 05:21:21,910
County's. Traffic there increased 12.9% from August of

4578
05:21:21,428 --> 05:21:26,233
24 to August of 25, and will reach level of service F by

4579
05:21:26,233 --> 05:21:31,330
2028 due to ambient growth alone. The proposed sewer

4580
05:21:31,638 --> 05:21:35,443
route, the Red line, would cut our local road network in half.

4581
05:21:35,443 --> 05:21:38,245
Farrington and Farrington Mill would be reduced to single

4582
05:21:38,245 --> 05:21:42,316
lanes with flagman for at least nine months. The sewer also

4583
05:21:42,316 --> 05:21:45,852
crosses the Lower Little Creek Bridge. The Red arrow, which is

4584
05:21:45,852 --> 05:21:51,252
being replaced from 2029 to 2032. This is Army Corps land.

4585
05:21:51,392 --> 05:21:54,128
These projects, as well as other infrastructure projects

4586
05:21:54,128 --> 05:21:57,630
in this immediate area, will cause severe traffic

4587
05:21:57,630 --> 05:22:00,668
disruption. I urge you to deny large housing developments on

4588
05:22:00,668 --> 05:22:03,603
our local roads. Our infrastructure cannot absorb

4589
05:22:03,603 --> 05:22:07,203
it. Please vote no. Thank you.

4590
05:22:34,368 --> 05:22:36,837
Hello mayor. Williams Mayor Pro Tem

4591
05:22:36,837 --> 05:22:40,410
Caballero and. council members. My name is Holt Farley and I

4592
05:22:40,410 --> 05:22:44,440
live on Copley Road. I'm here to discuss the traffic impact

4593
05:22:44,440 --> 05:22:47,914
of Morgan Farm. I have previously sent each of you a

4594
05:22:47,914 --> 05:22:50,718
detailed written analysis, traffic analysis, and I'll

4595
05:22:50,718 --> 05:22:55,589
briefly summarize my findings. Durham Planning. uses a Florida

4596
05:22:55,589 --> 05:22:59,593
dot level of service handbook for road capacity. The handbook

4597
05:22:59,593 --> 05:23:02,930
for the entry for the Farrington Mill Road type is

4598
05:23:02,930 --> 05:23:05,999
highlighted here in yellow level of service, D is

4599
05:23:05,999 --> 05:23:10,938
typically used for maximum capacity. However, there is a

4600
05:23:10,938 --> 05:23:14,675
footnote stating that once level of D service is reached,

4601
05:23:14,675 --> 05:23:18,612
the service degrades to failing grade F at intersections.

4602
05:23:18,612 --> 05:23:23,283
Bottom line, 14,200 vehicles per day represents gridlock on

4603
05:23:23,283 --> 05:23:28,221
Farrington Mill Road, Durham uses the IT trip generation

4604
05:23:28,221 --> 05:23:31,825
manual to estimate traffic for housing projects for a single

4605
05:23:31,825 --> 05:23:35,295
family unit. The manual estimates ten vehicles per day.

4606
05:23:35,295 --> 05:23:39,433
Morgan Farm will add up to 437 units, which will result in

4607
05:23:39,433 --> 05:23:43,370
more than 4000 additional vehicles per day on Farrington

4608
05:23:43,370 --> 05:23:47,837
Mill Road, using 2025 NCDOT data. Farrington Mill Road

4609
05:23:50,177 --> 05:23:54,381
traffic is growing at about 7% per year, projecting forward

4610
05:23:54,381 --> 05:23:59,781
ambient growth alone pushes the road into gridlock. By 2028,

4611
05:24:00,454 --> 05:24:03,323
when Morgan Farm traffic is added. Phase through the

4612
05:24:03,323 --> 05:24:07,994
buildout, total volumes reach about 165% of the gridlock

4613
05:24:07,994 --> 05:24:12,660
capacity before the project is complete. This would push an

4614
05:24:12,660 --> 05:24:15,803
already failing road network into severe and sustained

4615
05:24:15,803 --> 05:24:20,407
congestion. The developers described the new Tia, but that

4616
05:24:20,407 --> 05:24:24,607
To has significant omissions and unrealistic assumptions.

4617
05:24:25,279 --> 05:24:29,216
But most importantly, it has not been reviewed or validated.

4618
05:24:29,216 --> 05:24:36,416
So please use that carefully. I urge you to vote no. Good

4619
05:24:40,227 --> 05:24:45,980
morning, Mayor Williams. Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem and council

4620
05:24:45,980 --> 05:24:49,437
members. My name is Joe Regula. I live on Kepler Road as well.

4621
05:24:49,437 --> 05:24:53,841
I want to follow up from what Mr. Farley has stated to you

4622
05:24:53,841 --> 05:25:00,441
and and explain to you how Farrington Mill Road lost it.

4623
05:25:03,784 --> 05:25:05,784
No. Where is.

4624
05:25:15,529 --> 05:25:22,729
It? It's not showing. There it goes. Okay. Okay. Sorry. I want

4625
05:25:31,145 --> 05:25:34,481
to follow up and explain how Farrington Mill Road fits into

4626
05:25:34,481 --> 05:25:38,885
the broader network and why traffic congestion in this area

4627
05:25:38,885 --> 05:25:42,556
cannot realistically be mitigated. Morgan Farms is

4628
05:25:42,556 --> 05:25:46,226
indicated here in the middle of this map. As you can see,

4629
05:25:46,226 --> 05:25:51,626
Farrington Mill Road along with US 15 501 and route 751 have

4630
05:25:51,899 --> 05:25:56,837
become major conduit into Durham from the southwest. But

4631
05:25:56,837 --> 05:26:00,574
as you can see here, all Farrington Mill Road traffic is

4632
05:26:00,574 --> 05:26:04,511
forced into just three roads Barbee, Chapel Road, Farrington

4633
05:26:04,511 --> 05:26:09,983
Road and Stagecoach Road. There are no alternative roads. These

4634
05:26:09,983 --> 05:26:14,721
three roads are already heavily commuter roads, which, if

4635
05:26:14,721 --> 05:26:17,190
you've traveled any of them, you would probably know that

4636
05:26:17,190 --> 05:26:20,527
and continued nearby residential development keeps

4637
05:26:20,527 --> 05:26:25,665
adding traffic to this already constrained system. Now look at

4638
05:26:25,665 --> 05:26:29,269
the blue areas on the map. You'll see this is the Army

4639
05:26:29,269 --> 05:26:34,740
Corps of Engineers critical flood control lands. As you can

4640
05:26:34,740 --> 05:26:37,210
see, these three key intersections fed directly from

4641
05:26:37,210 --> 05:26:40,280
Farrington Mill Road, are constrained by the Army Corps

4642
05:26:40,280 --> 05:26:45,285
flood control lands, congestion is already severe, with backups

4643
05:26:45,285 --> 05:26:49,489
often over a half a mile on these roads. And for more than

4644
05:26:49,489 --> 05:26:54,561
30 years, the Corps has not released land for any expansion

4645
05:26:54,561 --> 05:26:58,504
and multiple regional studies with NCDOT have concluded

4646
05:26:58,504 --> 05:27:02,442
approvals are not feasible. This means there is no

4647
05:27:02,442 --> 05:27:06,379
realistic way to increase capacity at any of these

4648
05:27:06,379 --> 05:27:10,383
locations, so adding Morgan Farms traffic would make an

4649
05:27:10,383 --> 05:27:14,583
already overburdened system significantly worse. Thank you

4650
05:27:15,188 --> 05:27:18,188
for your attention. Good morning.

4651
05:27:31,337 --> 05:27:34,607
Well, she's. doing that. Thank you. Thank you for.

4652
05:27:34,607 --> 05:27:36,607
Your patience. To.

4653
05:27:37,477 --> 05:27:40,477
Thank you. I've changed everything.

4654
05:27:45,284 --> 05:27:47,486
I. Wanted to say tonight. I. My

4655
05:27:47,486 --> 05:27:52,910
GPS brought me from Montclair. My name is Eddie Williamson. I

4656
05:27:52,910 --> 05:27:54,930
brought. Me from Montclair.

4657
05:27:54,930 --> 05:27:59,832
A Po Valley road, 47 years ago. My wife and I bought a house.

4658
05:27:59,832 --> 05:28:03,903
Our first house on Hope Valley Road. I brought my son.

4659
05:28:03,903 --> 05:28:06,239
Home. Who is now the father of my two

4660
05:28:06,239 --> 05:28:11,710
grandkids that are at Jordan High School as a pass by.

4661
05:28:11,710 --> 05:28:17,500
Obviously, there was some really good moments of memory I

4662
05:28:17,500 --> 05:28:23,923
got here and I felt like I needed to say that my wife and

4663
05:28:23,923 --> 05:28:30,596
I have moved around a lot as I was a football coach. We moved

4664
05:28:30,596 --> 05:28:35,668
back. We started our life here in Durham. We chose to come

4665
05:28:35,668 --> 05:28:42,268
back here and end our life in Durham, chasing our grandkids.

4666
05:28:42,475 --> 05:28:48,280
Now, if you will, just look at the pictures on the wall. I

4667
05:28:48,280 --> 05:28:53,553
came home from Chapel Hill, Fort Fordham Boulevard one

4668
05:28:53,553 --> 05:28:58,758
afternoon later than I normally like to leave the gym. It took

4669
05:28:58,758 --> 05:29:05,358
me 14.5 minutes when I made the turn off of 54 onto Barbee

4670
05:29:06,310 --> 05:29:13,831
Chapel to go one and a half miles to my home in Montclair.

4671
05:29:14,306 --> 05:29:19,379
I thought, well, there must be a wreck. There was no rec. Then

4672
05:29:19,379 --> 05:29:22,582
I thought maybe road construction for some of the

4673
05:29:22,582 --> 05:29:26,519
development that is opening up at the west end of Barbee

4674
05:29:26,519 --> 05:29:31,319
Chapel. That wasn't the problem. Easily. What? What

4675
05:29:33,459 --> 05:29:39,531
caused it? And then I realized it's just a crowded, crowded

4676
05:29:39,531 --> 05:29:43,536
area. There are more cars feeding into that place than

4677
05:29:43,536 --> 05:29:48,140
anyplace else. And the real problem that I would have is if

4678
05:29:48,140 --> 05:29:51,744
I wanted to bring a carton of ice cream home from Harris

4679
05:29:51,744 --> 05:29:56,544
Teeter. It would melt before I got home.

4680
05:29:57,150 --> 05:30:00,615
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

4681
05:30:23,842 --> 05:30:29,842
Make it full screen and then just the arrow second.

4682
05:30:32,585 --> 05:30:35,187
Good morning, Council members. My name is Danny Young and my

4683
05:30:35,187 --> 05:30:38,191
address is on file. But I live. Off of Farrington Mill Road.

4684
05:30:38,191 --> 05:30:41,600
This is a picture of Farrington Mill Road. To the right is

4685
05:30:41,600 --> 05:30:43,863
where the proposed Morgan. Farm development site begins.

4686
05:30:43,863 --> 05:30:46,332
And on the left is where the whip pipeline is going to be

4687
05:30:46,332 --> 05:30:48,601
coming up. From, from Chatham County, up

4688
05:30:48,601 --> 05:30:51,203
Farrington. Mill Road. Farrington Mill Road

4689
05:30:51,203 --> 05:30:53,739
is, as you can see, a. very narrow rural road in poor

4690
05:30:53,739 --> 05:30:57,810
condition. It has no shoulders, a 55 mile an hour speed limit,

4691
05:30:57,810 --> 05:31:01,413
and is already operating at a level of service. D and this is

4692
05:31:01,413 --> 05:31:04,830
also the as you heard, the primary commuting route between

4693
05:31:04,830 --> 05:31:08,883
Chatham, Orange and Durham counties. These are fully

4694
05:31:09,354 --> 05:31:11,557
funded high priority infrastructure projects that

4695
05:31:11,557 --> 05:31:15,561
are scheduled from 2027 through 2032 that all impact Farrington

4696
05:31:15,561 --> 05:31:19,431
Mill Road, Farrington Road and Stagecoach Road and the highway

4697
05:31:19,431 --> 05:31:22,635
54 widening may not be in the direct network, but it's also

4698
05:31:22,635 --> 05:31:26,105
going to be widened and impact this local network. All of

4699
05:31:26,105 --> 05:31:29,641
these projects overlap. The Western Intake Partnership will

4700
05:31:29,641 --> 05:31:32,111
run up Farrington Mill Road to a new water treatment facility

4701
05:31:32,111 --> 05:31:35,581
being built. A sewer main is being relocated out of a

4702
05:31:35,581 --> 05:31:39,652
floodplain up Farrington Road to a sewer treatment plant and

4703
05:31:39,652 --> 05:31:42,854
the Lower Little Creek Bridge, already severely degraded, will

4704
05:31:42,854 --> 05:31:46,725
be replaced, requiring long term lane closures. Even

4705
05:31:46,725 --> 05:31:49,528
without these projects, traffic is projected to drop to the

4706
05:31:49,528 --> 05:31:53,131
level of service within the next two years, and that

4707
05:31:53,131 --> 05:31:56,202
estimate does not include Morgan Farm, which proposes a

4708
05:31:56,202 --> 05:31:59,400
three mile sewer line and a lift station along Farrington

4709
05:31:59,400 --> 05:32:02,341
Mill, and Large, a large multi-unit development with

4710
05:32:02,341 --> 05:32:05,944
three points of access, all on Farrington Mill Road as well,

4711
05:32:05,944 --> 05:32:10,150
which is already strained. This map shows how all these

4712
05:32:10,150 --> 05:32:13,419
projects converge on the same small network of two lane

4713
05:32:13,419 --> 05:32:17,823
roads. It looks crowded because it is, and it will be. So the

4714
05:32:17,823 --> 05:32:21,360
question is simple why approve a major development, one that

4715
05:32:21,360 --> 05:32:24,230
hasn't gone through standard rezoning and bedding right in

4716
05:32:24,230 --> 05:32:27,633
the middle of overlapping critical infrastructure work?

4717
05:32:27,633 --> 05:32:31,370
Durham's priority should be clear safe roads and bridges,

4718
05:32:31,370 --> 05:32:34,840
reliable drinking water, environmental protection and

4719
05:32:34,840 --> 05:32:37,977
the quality of life of existing residents. Adding Morgan Farm

4720
05:32:37,977 --> 05:32:41,470
into this mix increases risk, compounds congestion and

4721
05:32:41,470 --> 05:32:43,480
threatens to delay or disrupt essential projects.

4722
05:32:43,480 --> 05:32:49,648
Thank you. Thank you. All right. I'm Larry Tatum. Are you?

4723
05:32:52,580 --> 05:32:58,580
Lynn Collier. All right. So after Larry. I have Linda

4724
05:33:01,133 --> 05:33:07,133
Castiglione and that rice. Judy Jones, Naomi Echols and Whitney

4725
05:33:08,730 --> 05:33:11,673
Harris. Welcome. Good morning, Mayor Williams,

4726
05:33:16,686 --> 05:33:19,823
council mayor pro tem and city council members. Thank you for

4727
05:33:19,823 --> 05:33:22,223
staying. Awake this long.

4728
05:33:22,359 --> 05:33:26,362
I my name is Larry Tatum and my address is on file. I'm here to

4729
05:33:26,362 --> 05:33:30,299
oppose annexation. I would like to talk to you about a very

4730
05:33:30,299 --> 05:33:34,104
important 107ft, about a mile and a half from the site. You

4731
05:33:34,104 --> 05:33:38,441
are deliberating on tonight and located along their proposed

4732
05:33:38,441 --> 05:33:41,444
sewer force. Main traffic studies have been done in the

4733
05:33:41,444 --> 05:33:45,114
past. However, these numbers that have been generated do not

4734
05:33:45,114 --> 05:33:48,251
account for the increased increase in construction or

4735
05:33:48,251 --> 05:33:53,657
heavy equipment that now passes over the. The bridge and

4736
05:33:53,657 --> 05:33:57,661
through this area. On these two lane country roads. The Little

4737
05:33:57,661 --> 05:34:03,610
Creek Bridge was constructed in 1979. It was bus just

4738
05:34:03,199 --> 05:34:08,472
buttressed in 2006 with riprap, and it was last inspection

4739
05:34:08,472 --> 05:34:14,745
found on public records was June of 2023, and at that time

4740
05:34:14,745 --> 05:34:18,881
it was structurally deficient, meaning meeting minimum

4741
05:34:18,881 --> 05:34:24,220
tolerable limits. NC Odot will be replacing this bridge in

4742
05:34:24,220 --> 05:34:30,220
2029 to 2032. In the meantime, we have been assured that they

4743
05:34:31,962 --> 05:34:35,365
will continue to limp it along until a replacement is

4744
05:34:35,365 --> 05:34:39,969
complete. Weight limits are a likely step to make sure it

4745
05:34:39,969 --> 05:34:43,907
remains safe. Heavy construction traffic will speed

4746
05:34:43,907 --> 05:34:48,377
up the deterioration of this bridge. The images that you see

4747
05:34:48,377 --> 05:34:54,377
here are the current images of the structure, and remember

4748
05:34:55,652 --> 05:34:58,788
that these images are talking about the destruction that's

4749
05:34:58,788 --> 05:35:03,860
going on, along with erosion. They've placed sandbags to help

4750
05:35:03,860 --> 05:35:09,666
stop erosion, which isn't working. And I urge you to deny

4751
05:35:09,666 --> 05:35:13,266
this request. Thank you very much.

4752
05:35:13,937 --> 05:35:17,537
Thank you. Next. Up or down?

4753
05:35:32,555 --> 05:35:36,959
Greetings, mayor Williams. Mayor Pro Tem Caballero and

4754
05:35:36,959 --> 05:35:39,963
city council members. My name. Is Linda.

4755
05:35:39,963 --> 05:35:44,234
Castiglione and my address is on file. Morgan Farm.

4756
05:35:44,234 --> 05:35:46,836
Is in the. Same location as the rejected

4757
05:35:46,836 --> 05:35:50,907
Sheffield Farms project. And while it is true the project

4758
05:35:50,907 --> 05:35:55,112
has been scaled down, the sewer issue is still on the table.

4759
05:35:55,112 --> 05:36:00,116
The developer must provide a sewer lift station and three

4760
05:36:00,116 --> 05:36:05,188
mile plus sewer main force at a projected cost of $10 million.

4761
05:36:05,188 --> 05:36:09,659
All on his dime. That is the only requirement. Sounds

4762
05:36:09,659 --> 05:36:16,660
awesome, doesn't it? It's a win win. Or is it? This slide shows

4763
05:36:16,660 --> 05:36:19,536
the Morgan Farm home construction timeline. That

4764
05:36:19,536 --> 05:36:23,600
big, beautiful sewer lift station in three mile plus

4765
05:36:23,600 --> 05:36:27,544
sewer main force force main has to be installed before any home

4766
05:36:27,544 --> 05:36:32,344
construction can begin. Fiscal year 20 2855 homes to be

4767
05:36:33,683 --> 05:36:39,683
completed are. But what about the Little Creek Bridge? At

4768
05:36:40,900 --> 05:36:44,940
this point in our timeline 2028, the developer has

4769
05:36:44,940 --> 05:36:48,631
provided the sewer lift station and all it entails. Utility

4770
05:36:48,631 --> 05:36:52,831
relocation begins April 2029, with new bridge construction

4771
05:36:53,503 --> 05:36:58,441
beginning in August 2030. Guess who has to pay for the utility

4772
05:36:58,441 --> 05:37:03,580
relocation costs? The City of Durham. The City of Durham will

4773
05:37:03,580 --> 05:37:07,716
also be responsible for repairs, ruptures, maintenance

4774
05:37:07,716 --> 05:37:11,916
for perpetuity. Perpetuity. I'm tired. Estimated cost $5

4775
05:37:13,923 --> 05:37:16,792
million. The City of Durham will have to pay for the

4776
05:37:16,792 --> 05:37:21,531
relocation of that sewer lift station and three mile plus

4777
05:37:21,531 --> 05:37:26,469
sewer force main in order to replace the Little Creek Bridge

4778
05:37:26,469 --> 05:37:31,340
and active sewer line will have to be moved. So I ask you, will

4779
05:37:31,340 --> 05:37:34,677
this $10 million sewer lift station in three mile plus

4780
05:37:34,677 --> 05:37:38,948
sewer force main be the gift to Durham? It is made out to be.

4781
05:37:38,948 --> 05:37:43,748
Thank you. Thank you. Do you need help

4782
05:37:55,164 --> 05:37:58,501
with the Ave? Could you come down.

4783
05:37:58,501 --> 05:38:03,901
Here and give me a hand? Good morning folks.

4784
05:38:05,410 --> 05:38:06,776
Good morning. My name is Annette Rice.

4785
05:38:06,776 --> 05:38:10,780
My address is on file and my fingers getting sore. As you

4786
05:38:10,780 --> 05:38:12,848
can see on this. Image here.

4787
05:38:12,848 --> 05:38:16,119
During the deliberations of the IRB for the new comprehensive

4788
05:38:16,119 --> 05:38:20,919
plan, which is 2023, the Durham Planning Department initially

4789
05:38:20,923 --> 05:38:24,194
suggested the removal of this particular area from within the

4790
05:38:24,194 --> 05:38:26,595
urban growth area, simply because of the difficulty in

4791
05:38:26,595 --> 05:38:30,533
supplying sewer to the site. If you look at this map, the red

4792
05:38:30,533 --> 05:38:33,803
arrow there and the red pen there basically show you where

4793
05:38:33,803 --> 05:38:36,806
the United States Army Corps of Engineers Jordan Lake project

4794
05:38:36,806 --> 05:38:41,344
lands are with the red marking where the Morgan Farm site is.

4795
05:38:41,344 --> 05:38:44,214
Here's a picture of the utility extension agreement image

4796
05:38:44,214 --> 05:38:47,884
there, showing you how it has to go up to the the

4797
05:38:47,884 --> 05:38:50,420
Southwestern Durham Water Treatment facility. And this is

4798
05:38:50,420 --> 05:38:54,900
that same line running through the Army Corps of Engineers

4799
05:38:54,900 --> 05:38:58,428
properties. In 2013, the the the Corps of Engineers modified

4800
05:38:58,428 --> 05:39:01,297
policies regarding non recreational land use out

4801
05:39:01,297 --> 05:39:05,568
grants. Those include leases and utility easements. Any

4802
05:39:05,568 --> 05:39:10,968
modifications made to the passed out grants pre 2013 are

4803
05:39:11,641 --> 05:39:15,177
now considered new applications subject to the full Army Corps

4804
05:39:15,177 --> 05:39:19,377
review process. A non recreational policy specifics

4805
05:39:20,453 --> 05:39:25,853
per chapter 17 er 1132 550 change six states that for the

4806
05:39:26,592 --> 05:39:29,996
evaluation of a new grant, there must be no viable

4807
05:39:29,996 --> 05:39:33,332
alternative or a direct benefit to the federal government. Of

4808
05:39:33,332 --> 05:39:36,100
course, there are some exceptions. However, the Army

4809
05:39:36,100 --> 05:39:41,206
Corps of Engineers refuses to consider cost as a factor

4810
05:39:41,206 --> 05:39:43,343
whenever they decide whether or not there is a viable

4811
05:39:43,343 --> 05:39:47,747
alternative in existence. So do you think that the Army Corps

4812
05:39:47,747 --> 05:39:51,483
of Engineers is going to permit the running of a sewer main

4813
05:39:51,483 --> 05:39:55,888
through the their property and through property that's also

4814
05:39:55,888 --> 05:40:00,559
controlled by the NDDC? Furthermore, who asked the

4815
05:40:00,559 --> 05:40:06,565
developer about coming down to the regular density and on the

4816
05:40:06,565 --> 05:40:12,171
strip, there is a limitation because of Army Corps of

4817
05:40:12,171 --> 05:40:16,371
Engineers property. Why put sewer through there?

4818
05:40:18,377 --> 05:40:21,246
Thank you. I'm not. sure how to get this

4819
05:40:21,246 --> 05:40:23,116
slide. Up yet.

4820
05:40:23,116 --> 05:40:28,516
I need my tech advisor. We have two duties.

4821
05:40:38,131 --> 05:40:40,800
I know. There are a lot of us at

4822
05:40:40,800 --> 05:40:43,200
Carolina meadows. Okay, perfect.

4823
05:40:44,604 --> 05:40:49,675
Thank you. Hello. Good morning, I'm Judy Jones, and I live at

4824
05:40:49,675 --> 05:40:53,679
Carolina meadows. My address is on file. I'm adjacent to this

4825
05:40:53,679 --> 05:41:00,279
property. I am a retired high school biology teacher. And for

4826
05:41:00,619 --> 05:41:03,422
my whole career, I was helping students understand the

4827
05:41:03,422 --> 05:41:08,222
interconnectedness of nature and how disturbing one part

4828
05:41:10,163 --> 05:41:13,899
disturbed the whole. And I feel like this is just a perfect

4829
05:41:13,899 --> 05:41:19,572
example of what disasters could happen. Jordan Lake is a

4830
05:41:19,572 --> 05:41:23,109
reliable drinking water source for Durham and several other

4831
05:41:23,109 --> 05:41:26,709
counties and municipalities, serving more than 700,000

4832
05:41:28,380 --> 05:41:32,251
customers, and Durham recently committed to move forward with

4833
05:41:32,251 --> 05:41:36,189
the western intake Partnership, taking on all the

4834
05:41:36,189 --> 05:41:40,926
infrastructure expenses to pump raw water from Jordan Lake, up

4835
05:41:40,926 --> 05:41:44,263
Farrington Mill Road and to a new treatment plant. As you

4836
05:41:44,263 --> 05:41:48,267
know, the Corps of Engineers has been said before owns the

4837
05:41:48,267 --> 05:41:51,137
land around Jordan Lake and the reservoir and will not issue

4838
05:41:51,137 --> 05:41:56,209
permits for road improvements or sewer incursions. If it

4839
05:41:56,209 --> 05:41:59,412
determines there's potential harm to water quality. That

4840
05:41:59,412 --> 05:42:03,349
limits Durham's growth and makes it impractical to provide

4841
05:42:03,349 --> 05:42:07,620
city services in an area protected by state water supply

4842
05:42:07,620 --> 05:42:11,623
rules. These state rules and classifications are designed to

4843
05:42:11,623 --> 05:42:16,161
protect water quality and guide future development. Mr. Shelton

4844
05:42:16,161 --> 05:42:18,764
Sullivan, a Department of Environmental Quality staff

4845
05:42:18,764 --> 05:42:21,500
member, verified during her call last year the following

4846
05:42:21,500 --> 05:42:26,300
statement the subject address, 8422 Farrington Mill Road, is

4847
05:42:26,372 --> 05:42:30,576
located within a protected area of the water supply. Watershed.

4848
05:42:30,576 --> 05:42:33,913
The receiving water is classified as nutrient

4849
05:42:33,913 --> 05:42:37,917
sensitive and the area is subject to the Jordan watershed

4850
05:42:37,917 --> 05:42:41,587
riparian buffer, and you can see from the map that the

4851
05:42:41,587 --> 05:42:46,125
proposed development is already within a protected area, and

4852
05:42:46,125 --> 05:42:50,925
impinging upon a critical area. Please vote no.

4853
05:42:51,397 --> 05:42:55,597
Thank you. Thank goodness she's here. I'm

4854
05:43:07,613 --> 05:43:11,813
a Neanderthal. Good morning. Ladies and gentlemen.

4855
05:43:12,818 --> 05:43:14,220
Mayor Williams. Mayor Pro.

4856
05:43:14,220 --> 05:43:18,223
Tem, council members. My name. is Naomi. Echoes, I.

4857
05:43:18,223 --> 05:43:20,759
Think, and. I live just off Farrington

4858
05:43:20,759 --> 05:43:24,430
Road. My address. is on file. I haven't.

4859
05:43:24,430 --> 05:43:27,566
Been up this late since I met my husband, and we talked till

4860
05:43:27,566 --> 05:43:32,966
4:00 in the morning. I'm asking you to please oppose.

4861
05:43:33,372 --> 05:43:36,241
The request. To annex this property into the

4862
05:43:36,241 --> 05:43:39,444
city of Durham. The consequences of such an

4863
05:43:39,444 --> 05:43:42,715
annexation were posing enormous consequences of such an

4864
05:43:42,715 --> 05:43:48,530
annexation to the city. Water supply. If there were a water

4865
05:43:48,530 --> 05:43:51,857
main sewer break which would disturb, which would discharge

4866
05:43:51,857 --> 05:43:56,262
raw sewage into our drinking water supply, while a sewer

4867
05:43:56,262 --> 05:43:57,129
break. Is always.

4868
05:43:57,129 --> 05:44:00,398
Harmful, in this case, it is especially so because of the

4869
05:44:00,398 --> 05:44:05,300
proximity to our watershed. The risk to the health of thousands

4870
05:44:05,300 --> 05:44:09,274
of people outweighs any benefit. Could a sewer break

4871
05:44:09,274 --> 05:44:13,679
really happen? Absolutely. The image before you is the

4872
05:44:13,679 --> 05:44:17,879
catastrophic catastrophe that happened in 2013, in Durham,

4873
05:44:18,830 --> 05:44:21,420
when a tree fell and broke the sewer main south of Duke

4874
05:44:21,420 --> 05:44:25,958
University, nearly half a million gallons of sewage was

4875
05:44:25,958 --> 05:44:30,362
discharged into Sandy Creek, which feeds Jordan Lake, the

4876
05:44:30,362 --> 05:44:35,762
main source of our drinking water. More recently, in 2025,

4877
05:44:36,168 --> 05:44:39,438
Tropical Storm Chantelle floodwaters caused a sewer

4878
05:44:39,438 --> 05:44:43,638
break. An 819,000 gallons of untreated water wastewater

4879
05:44:45,510 --> 05:44:50,449
flowed into Morgan Creek and onto Jordan Lake. Additional

4880
05:44:50,449 --> 05:44:55,849
flooding occurred, caused a total of over 3 million gallons

4881
05:44:56,255 --> 05:45:00,125
of wastewater filled with sewage to flow into our

4882
05:45:00,125 --> 05:45:05,330
regional drinking water supply. That's the equivalent of five

4883
05:45:05,330 --> 05:45:10,269
Olympic sized swimming pools. We asked the City of Durham to

4884
05:45:10,269 --> 05:45:14,206
keep additional sewer lines out of this water critical area

4885
05:45:14,206 --> 05:45:18,410
near Jordan Lake, which currently supplies over three

4886
05:45:18,410 --> 05:45:22,615
quarters of a million people with clean drinking water. And

4887
05:45:22,615 --> 05:45:27,180
to protect the future water supply for Durham, allowing

4888
05:45:27,180 --> 05:45:31,759
annexation is simply not worth the risk. Please deny this. We

4889
05:45:31,759 --> 05:45:35,763
crest just as the Planning Commission has. Thank you for

4890
05:45:35,763 --> 05:45:38,163
your time. Thank you.

4891
05:45:41,835 --> 05:45:43,370
Well, I don't know about. Y'all, but I'm.

4892
05:45:43,370 --> 05:45:46,173
Excited because we live in a country where we get.

4893
05:45:46,173 --> 05:45:49,176
To speak with. Our elected officials. So for.

4894
05:45:49,176 --> 05:45:50,778
No matter. What happens tonight, that's

4895
05:45:50,778 --> 05:45:53,914
worth celebrating. In my opinion. Good evening. Good

4896
05:45:53,914 --> 05:45:56,984
morning. Depends on how you're feeling, right. My name is

4897
05:45:56,984 --> 05:46:00,540
Whitney Harris. My address is on record and I live in South

4898
05:46:00,540 --> 05:46:03,390
Durham. Is a proud Durham resident. I'm here today to

4899
05:46:03,390 --> 05:46:07,328
personally ask you to respond no to this proposal to annex

4900
05:46:07,328 --> 05:46:11,398
this property. Not because I oppose growth, but because

4901
05:46:11,398 --> 05:46:14,135
we've already seen what happens when we approve projects based

4902
05:46:14,135 --> 05:46:17,138
on promises that are not guaranteed. My ten year old

4903
05:46:17,138 --> 05:46:20,207
daughter, who also believes in democracy, made this nice

4904
05:46:20,207 --> 05:46:23,277
little graphic for you to see what happens when a project

4905
05:46:23,277 --> 05:46:27,414
like 751 South is approved, and then all of those promises are

4906
05:46:27,414 --> 05:46:30,484
not upheld. And I want to acknowledge up front that,

4907
05:46:30,484 --> 05:46:32,953
again, I understand this project or something like it is

4908
05:46:32,953 --> 05:46:35,356
likely going to be approved at some point, and that's okay.

4909
05:46:35,356 --> 05:46:38,559
Durham is growing and it's this wonderful place to live that we

4910
05:46:38,559 --> 05:46:41,295
want to share with other people without growth. People like my

4911
05:46:41,295 --> 05:46:44,632
family don't get to experience this wonderful community. But

4912
05:46:44,632 --> 05:46:47,835
growth alone is not the goal. The right growth should be the

4913
05:46:47,835 --> 05:46:51,906
goal, and the right growth is not this project. We don't have

4914
05:46:51,906 --> 05:46:55,420
to speculate because we've seen what's happened with 751 South.

4915
05:46:55,420 --> 05:46:57,244
It was presented as a thoughtfully planned, mixed use

4916
05:46:57,244 --> 05:46:59,580
community, a place where people could live, work and gather

4917
05:46:59,580 --> 05:47:02,716
together. Its promises seem balance, infrastructure and

4918
05:47:02,716 --> 05:47:04,652
benefits to the broader community. With

4919
05:47:04,652 --> 05:47:05,719
Annexation. These were.

4920
05:47:05,719 --> 05:47:08,522
All promises. and EMS, fire station.

4921
05:47:08,522 --> 05:47:10,991
, school all within that. Planned community.

4922
05:47:10,991 --> 05:47:13,661
Guess what? All of that since 2023 has

4923
05:47:13,661 --> 05:47:16,663
been. taken off the table. In exchange for a payment.

4924
05:47:16,663 --> 05:47:19,800
To the housing fund in. exchange for Durham doesn't

4925
05:47:19,800 --> 05:47:22,269
have the money to build the land. So let's just give DPS

4926
05:47:22,269 --> 05:47:25,940
some funds. That's not okay. Not what we were promised. And

4927
05:47:25,940 --> 05:47:29,100
who absorbs that impact? The increased traffic, the schools

4928
05:47:29,100 --> 05:47:31,479
becoming strained, the environmental concerns and the

4929
05:47:31,479 --> 05:47:34,482
trust in the process. It's weakened. We do. Durham

4930
05:47:34,482 --> 05:47:38,180
citizens do. My family, my ten year old daughter, Elizabeth.

4931
05:47:38,180 --> 05:47:41,287
This is the lesson of 751 South. What is promised in

4932
05:47:41,287 --> 05:47:44,491
annexation or what's granted doesn't always guarantee that

4933
05:47:44,491 --> 05:47:46,960
that's what's going to be delivered. And this is what we

4934
05:47:46,960 --> 05:47:49,563
are concerned and what we fear with the Morgan Farm developers

4935
05:47:49,563 --> 05:47:53,167
in the end. So tonight it's not just about should we grow? We

4936
05:47:53,167 --> 05:47:57,304
will, but let's grow the right way. Ask for more.

4937
05:47:57,304 --> 05:48:03,904
Thank you. Thank you for that human espresso. I needed it,

4938
05:48:03,911 --> 05:48:08,111
alright, tell me your name. Kathy Rexford.

4939
05:48:10,250 --> 05:48:13,120
Say it one more time, Kathy. Rex road.

4940
05:48:13,120 --> 05:48:18,859
Okay. All right, so if I can have Chris Peckham won. Montez.

4941
05:48:18,859 --> 05:48:25,459
No, not not won. William. Few. Nope. Chuck. Darcy, Andy Lowe

4942
05:48:35,675 --> 05:48:39,275
and Katie Jackson. Jennifer. Mayor. Ma.

4943
05:48:45,219 --> 05:48:48,688
I wish I had her energy. I don't right now, but. Good

4944
05:48:48,688 --> 05:48:51,892
morning. My name is Kathy Rexford and I live also in the

4945
05:48:51,892 --> 05:48:53,827
downs. Neighborhood.

4946
05:48:53,827 --> 05:48:57,300
And thank you for listening to us tonight in the middle of the

4947
05:48:57,300 --> 05:49:00,501
night, I'd like to speak briefly on how this annexation

4948
05:49:00,501 --> 05:49:02,703
application relates to the County Durham County

4949
05:49:02,703 --> 05:49:05,703
Comprehensive Plan, specifically policy 165. Part

4950
05:49:07,841 --> 05:49:10,377
of it reads, annexation into the city limits should only be

4951
05:49:10,377 --> 05:49:13,780
considered when a substantial benefit to the community can be

4952
05:49:13,780 --> 05:49:16,850
demonstrated. We've heard about proffers, and just like the

4953
05:49:16,850 --> 05:49:20,521
last speaker said, we've got money being offered, but no

4954
05:49:20,521 --> 05:49:24,725
actual affordable or accessible units in this location. We've

4955
05:49:24,725 --> 05:49:28,620
got issues with the Jordan Lake watershed. We've got increased

4956
05:49:28,620 --> 05:49:31,265
traffic in areas where roads cannot be widened. We've got

4957
05:49:31,265 --> 05:49:35,200
increased utilization of overcrowded schools with again,

4958
05:49:35,200 --> 05:49:38,739
money thrown at it. But does that really fix it? Future

4959
05:49:38,739 --> 05:49:43,276
water and sewer line maintenance issues and many

4960
05:49:43,276 --> 05:49:47,800
concerns that you've heard. Policy 165 also states that

4961
05:49:47,800 --> 05:49:50,150
annexation should not cause service delivery or operational

4962
05:49:50,150 --> 05:49:53,487
issues for the city or county. You've heard and seen on the

4963
05:49:53,487 --> 05:49:58,920
map how the proposed sewer line would be laid perpendicular to

4964
05:49:58,920 --> 05:50:03,363
water flowing into a floodplain in the storms, that water flow

4965
05:50:03,363 --> 05:50:07,568
is very forceful. And if and when this sewer line fails and

4966
05:50:07,568 --> 05:50:11,238
sewage either flows into Jordan Lake watershed or backs up into

4967
05:50:11,238 --> 05:50:15,776
the proposed 437 conservation homes, Durham will have serious

4968
05:50:15,776 --> 05:50:18,712
service delivery and operational issues, and people

4969
05:50:18,712 --> 05:50:23,183
will be asking who thought this was a good idea? The planning

4970
05:50:23,183 --> 05:50:25,385
department wanted to remove this parcel from the urban

4971
05:50:25,385 --> 05:50:28,655
growth boundary. When the light rail project was canceled for

4972
05:50:28,655 --> 05:50:33,455
the specific reason. Council. As you're well aware,

4973
05:50:34,795 --> 05:50:37,798
annexation is permanent and it obligates the city to provide

4974
05:50:37,798 --> 05:50:41,401
city water, sewer and other services. If this is not a good

4975
05:50:41,401 --> 05:50:45,710
plan for sewer and it's annexed, then you are on the

4976
05:50:45,710 --> 05:50:49,342
hook forever. We are on the hook forever. The guidelines

4977
05:50:49,342 --> 05:50:52,413
for the City of Durham that the City and County of Durham have

4978
05:50:52,413 --> 05:50:55,682
created for annexation have not been met. Please vote no.

4979
05:50:55,682 --> 05:50:59,282
Thank you. Good evening councilors. My

4980
05:51:05,358 --> 05:51:07,561
name is Chris Peckham and I am the president of the Montclair

4981
05:51:07,561 --> 05:51:10,897
Homeowners Association. My address is on file. I want to

4982
05:51:10,897 --> 05:51:13,100
thank you for your service and for taking the time to listen

4983
05:51:13,100 --> 05:51:16,370
to us well into the morning here this morning. I would like

4984
05:51:16,370 --> 05:51:20,974
to speak to you about growing pains. Yes. Growing pains. This

4985
05:51:20,974 --> 05:51:24,440
is what I once heard of. Member of the city Council referred to

4986
05:51:24,440 --> 05:51:27,470
about potential disruption associated with developing

4987
05:51:27,470 --> 05:51:30,117
along Farrington Mill Road. Now, when I think of growing

4988
05:51:30,117 --> 05:51:32,586
pains, I think of the challenges of being a teenager

4989
05:51:32,586 --> 05:51:35,255
and growing up to be an adult. In other words, I think the

4990
05:51:35,255 --> 05:51:39,193
pains that go away. But what we are talking about here today

4991
05:51:39,193 --> 05:51:43,397
won't go away. It will create permanent generational pain.

4992
05:51:43,397 --> 05:51:46,201
While we are just talking about annexation, we're really

4993
05:51:46,201 --> 05:51:49,300
talking about a development because without the annexation,

4994
05:51:49,300 --> 05:51:52,473
there will be no development. But with annexation, there will

4995
05:51:52,473 --> 05:51:56,770
be a development without further oversight. So this

4996
05:51:56,770 --> 05:51:57,812
evening you will have heard from folks that have talked

4997
05:51:57,812 --> 05:52:00,948
about the pain that development will cause. This will be

4998
05:52:00,948 --> 05:52:03,351
similar to what you have heard before. With the Britt Moore

4999
05:52:03,351 --> 05:52:07,555
proposal, and it will be 3 to 4 times the size. You will have

5000
05:52:07,555 --> 05:52:10,240
heard about a significant disruption to traffic during

5001
05:52:10,240 --> 05:52:12,494
annexation and significant increase in traffic from the

5002
05:52:12,494 --> 05:52:15,496
development itself on roads that are not allowed to be

5003
05:52:15,496 --> 05:52:18,700
expanded, and there's no land on which to expand them. If you

5004
05:52:18,700 --> 05:52:22,704
could, permanent pain, you will have heard about impact to

5005
05:52:22,704 --> 05:52:25,573
ecology and wildlife that cannot be restored because no

5006
05:52:25,573 --> 05:52:29,440
one ever tears down a development to build a forest.

5007
05:52:29,440 --> 05:52:33,447
Permanent impact. New students will be underserved at schools

5008
05:52:33,447 --> 05:52:37,118
that are at or over capacity, with no plans to expand them.

5009
05:52:37,118 --> 05:52:40,588
That's generational impact. Economically and physically.

5010
05:52:40,588 --> 05:52:43,391
Disadvantaged persons might be expected to live here, though

5011
05:52:43,391 --> 05:52:46,600
they will have no access to public transportation.

5012
05:52:46,600 --> 05:52:49,864
Pervasive systemic challenges. And then there's the potential

5013
05:52:49,864 --> 05:52:52,200
impact to our drinking water that comes from this sensitive

5014
05:52:52,200 --> 05:52:55,603
area. A remediation here would cause financial pain for

5015
05:52:55,603 --> 05:52:59,674
generations. Our comprehensive plan did not take all of these

5016
05:52:59,674 --> 05:53:03,411
factors into account, so I urge you to please vote no to

5017
05:53:03,411 --> 05:53:08,211
annexation. Thank you. Hello. Thank you. everyone for

5018
05:53:14,688 --> 05:53:16,688
being here. And.

5019
05:53:18,260 --> 05:53:21,950
Thank you for. your patience, everybody.

5020
05:53:21,950 --> 05:53:23,764
My name is Katie Jackson. My address is on record.

5021
05:53:23,764 --> 05:53:24,965
I'm here tonight. To.

5022
05:53:24,965 --> 05:53:28,169
Speak more about the consequences of growth that

5023
05:53:28,169 --> 05:53:32,306
outpaces our infrastructure, particularly as it pertains to

5024
05:53:32,306 --> 05:53:36,710
our schools. We're already seeing this impact in Durham

5025
05:53:36,710 --> 05:53:39,513
Public School. In a recent message to families, the

5026
05:53:39,513 --> 05:53:43,184
superintendent acknowledged that Lyons Farm Elementary is

5027
05:53:43,184 --> 05:53:46,720
experiencing significant overcrowding. In fact, the

5028
05:53:46,720 --> 05:53:50,658
current enrollment already reflects what is projected for

5029
05:53:50,658 --> 05:53:55,263
next year's high enrollment scenario. Meaning we're not

5030
05:53:55,263 --> 05:53:58,599
just growing, but we're ahead of the most aggressive

5031
05:53:58,599 --> 05:54:02,203
projections. So what happens when a school becomes

5032
05:54:02,203 --> 05:54:06,874
overcrowded? We don't just add students, we lose opportunities

5033
05:54:06,874 --> 05:54:10,744
because of the state class size requirements. The district is

5034
05:54:10,744 --> 05:54:14,816
now being forced to consider repurposing classroom space as

5035
05:54:14,816 --> 05:54:19,160
currently used for core instruction, to accommodate

5036
05:54:19,821 --> 05:54:22,824
additional students. So this would mean spaces that are used

5037
05:54:22,824 --> 05:54:27,240
for enrichment, innovation, Stem education for students

5038
05:54:28,696 --> 05:54:33,701
with special needs. These are at risk of being a eliminated

5039
05:54:33,701 --> 05:54:38,439
or reduced reduced. So let me say that again overcrowding is

5040
05:54:38,439 --> 05:54:41,308
not just a numbers problem. This is an education quality

5041
05:54:41,308 --> 05:54:44,912
problem. So this is where accountability matters. And we

5042
05:54:44,912 --> 05:54:50,250
should not be approving more homes for families without the

5043
05:54:50,250 --> 05:54:53,254
ability, without the promise of being able to educate those

5044
05:54:53,254 --> 05:54:57,191
students. So as an example, when we have this current

5045
05:54:57,191 --> 05:54:59,593
development on Fayetteville Road, when this was being

5046
05:54:59,593 --> 05:55:02,930
proposed, the residents of my community and the surrounding

5047
05:55:02,930 --> 05:55:06,800
community, we were told overcrowding was not a problem.

5048
05:55:06,800 --> 05:55:11,600
At that time, Creekside Elementary was already at 125%

5049
05:55:12,607 --> 05:55:16,410
capacity. So clearly we do have an overcrowding issue. Adding

5050
05:55:16,410 --> 05:55:19,130
more homes is not going to solve that. Thank you.

5051
05:55:19,130 --> 05:55:22,613
Thank you. Good morning, city Council.

5052
05:55:25,486 --> 05:55:29,557
Mayor, mayor Pro tem, I'm back here before you. Normally when

5053
05:55:29,557 --> 05:55:32,760
I come before you, I'm urging you all to approve more

5054
05:55:32,760 --> 05:55:35,763
housing, more density. And as you weigh the trade offs of of

5055
05:55:35,763 --> 05:55:37,832
that density, there's usually kind of a give and take. And

5056
05:55:37,832 --> 05:55:39,700
many of you have acknowledged that tonight with some of the

5057
05:55:39,700 --> 05:55:42,437
other cases in this case is unique for me and that there is

5058
05:55:42,437 --> 05:55:45,372
no additional density right now, the very close to the

5059
05:55:45,372 --> 05:55:47,508
amount of homes that are being asked to be built are already

5060
05:55:47,508 --> 05:55:51,445
allowed to be built just with septic tanks and no utility

5061
05:55:51,445 --> 05:55:56,317
hookup, but still there. It's still the same traffic. What

5062
05:55:56,317 --> 05:55:58,986
the developer is asking you to let them do is hook up to city

5063
05:55:58,986 --> 05:56:02,390
water and sewer, not puts up the tanks in the ground and put

5064
05:56:02,390 --> 05:56:05,927
a covenant on massive amounts of open space. Now, I normally

5065
05:56:05,927 --> 05:56:08,462
don't have my environmentalist hat on here, but I guess

5066
05:56:08,462 --> 05:56:11,866
tonight I do, because that seems like a very good deal

5067
05:56:11,866 --> 05:56:14,935
compared to clearcutting a good part of the land, timbering it,

5068
05:56:14,935 --> 05:56:17,872
selling it, building a large estate, homes and building the

5069
05:56:17,872 --> 05:56:21,476
set to dig into septic tanks and wells for them. So from an

5070
05:56:21,476 --> 05:56:24,545
environmental perspective, I definitely would take that deal

5071
05:56:24,545 --> 05:56:29,550
over leaving it in the county. So thank you. I urge you to

5072
05:56:29,550 --> 05:56:35,550
support the annexation tonight and hope you all sleep well.

5073
05:56:37,558 --> 05:56:40,762
Are you Jennifer? Good morning. My name is

5074
05:56:40,762 --> 05:56:44,899
Jennifer Maher. My address is on record. Thank you for your

5075
05:56:44,899 --> 05:56:49,303
patience and I admire your stamina. I am speaking on

5076
05:56:49,303 --> 05:56:53,841
behalf of the new Hope Bird Alliance, for which I am the

5077
05:56:53,841 --> 05:56:57,311
conservation co-chair. I want to bring two issues to you that

5078
05:56:57,311 --> 05:56:59,647
I don't think have been addressed. Really. One is the

5079
05:56:59,647 --> 05:57:03,500
effect of fragmentation. So we have done studies that show

5080
05:57:03,500 --> 05:57:06,454
that the new Hope bottomlands, which was a very productive

5081
05:57:06,454 --> 05:57:10,925
bird breeding, rare bird breeding area of Durham, has

5082
05:57:10,925 --> 05:57:15,329
suffered a serious decline of bird population because all

5083
05:57:15,329 --> 05:57:19,667
around the edges the land has been developed and that means

5084
05:57:19,667 --> 05:57:24,405
access into the land and much less attractive breeding

5085
05:57:24,405 --> 05:57:27,700
association. So if you looked at the maps that you were

5086
05:57:27,700 --> 05:57:30,277
seeing of the conservation area, you saw a chunkier,

5087
05:57:30,277 --> 05:57:34,140
chunkier, chunk here. What you didn't see was how this land

5088
05:57:34,140 --> 05:57:38,886
now connects down to the Jordan Lake forested area and creates

5089
05:57:38,886 --> 05:57:43,860
a very intact and environmentally important area

5090
05:57:43,825 --> 05:57:47,280
for birds. The second thing I want to bring up is, is the

5091
05:57:47,280 --> 05:57:51,719
effect of groundwater in filling our reservoirs and

5092
05:57:51,719 --> 05:57:56,560
giving us clean drinking water. The more that we have

5093
05:57:56,560 --> 05:58:00,261
impervious surfaces replacing mature forests, which this land

5094
05:58:00,261 --> 05:58:05,400
has, the more the less drinking water is actually retained and

5095
05:58:05,400 --> 05:58:09,604
flowing into Jordan Lake. At the same time, if we develop,

5096
05:58:09,604 --> 05:58:12,941
we're adding more people trying to consume this drinking water.

5097
05:58:12,941 --> 05:58:18,346
So I have a feeling that that we are in trading off for

5098
05:58:18,346 --> 05:58:22,349
little bits of affordable housing or small parcels that

5099
05:58:22,349 --> 05:58:26,220
are some percentage of natural heritage being preserved. It's

5100
05:58:26,220 --> 05:58:29,491
almost like the biblical story of Esau. Yes we are. We're

5101
05:58:29,491 --> 05:58:31,960
getting a porridge now. We're getting a few affordable

5102
05:58:31,960 --> 05:58:35,163
housing, but we're giving up our natural resources that we

5103
05:58:35,163 --> 05:58:40,835
will depend on for the future, foreseeable future. And for

5104
05:58:40,835 --> 05:58:45,373
this reason that I hope that you will not annex this land.

5105
05:58:45,373 --> 05:58:49,377
Thank you. Thank you. Next, I have Steve

5106
05:58:49,377 --> 05:58:52,377
Cohen, Astrid Cook. Pablo Friedman.

5107
05:59:03,560 --> 05:59:04,792
I'm Chuck Dorsey. I've lived.

5108
05:59:04,792 --> 05:59:08,863
Out in that area for almost 50. Years.

5109
05:59:08,863 --> 05:59:12,660
You don't want any. Part of.

5110
05:59:12,660 --> 05:59:15,536
The city being out there. It's going to cost you more money.

5111
05:59:15,536 --> 05:59:20,808
And that's something that you guys are very aware of when you

5112
05:59:20,808 --> 05:59:25,747
when you consider projects like this, this is going to cost you

5113
05:59:25,747 --> 05:59:32,860
money over the long run. You don't want any part of it. And

5114
05:59:32,860 --> 05:59:40,828
and I urge you to to vote no. Jeff, do you also go by Chuck?

5115
05:59:40,828 --> 05:59:43,828
It's a different person. I.

5116
05:59:44,699 --> 05:59:47,702
We just spoke. You did say Chuck. I thought

5117
05:59:47,702 --> 05:59:53,702
you said Jeff. Darcy. I'm sorry. You're good. Yeah. Steve

5118
05:59:54,909 --> 05:59:56,710
Cohen. , 1406 Pennsylvania.

5119
05:59:56,710 --> 05:59:58,780
Avenue. Chair of the. Open Space.

5120
05:59:58,780 --> 06:00:02,182
Committee of the Durham Open. Space and. Trails Commission.

5121
06:00:02,182 --> 06:00:04,452
Because because. much of this property.

5122
06:00:04,452 --> 06:00:06,320
Is in a. State designated natural

5123
06:00:06,320 --> 06:00:10,525
heritage area and because it contains other sensitive

5124
06:00:10,525 --> 06:00:13,728
natural areas, including buffers to the area owned by

5125
06:00:13,728 --> 06:00:18,650
the Army Corps for protection of Jordan Lake, approximately

5126
06:00:18,650 --> 06:00:24,500
63% of this property is marked Ross Recreation and Open Space

5127
06:00:24,500 --> 06:00:28,609
on Durham's place type map, the comprehensive Plan is explicit

5128
06:00:28,609 --> 06:00:32,279
about the purpose and treatment of these areas. It says.

5129
06:00:32,279 --> 06:00:36,170
Recreation and open spaces are areas that will remain free

5130
06:00:36,170 --> 06:00:39,617
from development. Natural features and environmentally

5131
06:00:39,620 --> 06:00:43,558
sensitive areas should be preserved in all recreation and

5132
06:00:43,558 --> 06:00:48,229
open space. Place types on the site plan, the developers are

5133
06:00:48,229 --> 06:00:53,501
showing well over 50% of the properties designated Ross Land

5134
06:00:53,501 --> 06:00:58,172
will be built on top of in their plan for a nominally

5135
06:00:58,172 --> 06:01:02,972
conservation subdivision. In keeping with the priorities for

5136
06:01:03,778 --> 06:01:08,516
which space to keep open the substantial pond and the area

5137
06:01:08,516 --> 06:01:12,252
with historical buildings must take up much of this project's

5138
06:01:12,252 --> 06:01:16,591
open space, leaving not much room for including the land

5139
06:01:16,591 --> 06:01:20,461
actually designated as Ross. In the part of the development

5140
06:01:20,461 --> 06:01:25,333
that would remain undisturbed. The majority of the Ross place

5141
06:01:25,333 --> 06:01:30,710
type will not remain free from development and will not be

5142
06:01:30,710 --> 06:01:33,875
preserved in the way our comp plan, the comp plan you are

5143
06:01:33,875 --> 06:01:38,946
meant to follow, demands. There would be some benefit in

5144
06:01:38,946 --> 06:01:41,749
bringing water and sewer to the southwest corner of the county

5145
06:01:41,749 --> 06:01:44,552
and adding more single family homes to Durham's housing

5146
06:01:44,552 --> 06:01:47,755
stock, but it is essential to net that out against the

5147
06:01:47,755 --> 06:01:51,826
irreversible loss from enabling a developer to build over land.

5148
06:01:51,826 --> 06:01:54,829
The state has designated as vital to North Carolina's

5149
06:01:54,829 --> 06:01:59,567
biodiversity, and the city has identified in its comp plan as

5150
06:01:59,567 --> 06:02:02,170
critical open space that should be fully protected.

5151
06:02:02,170 --> 06:02:04,170
Thank you. Hello.

5152
06:02:13,114 --> 06:02:16,490
My name is Astrid Cooke. My address is on file and I'm

5153
06:02:16,490 --> 06:02:20,788
speaking once again on behalf of the Durham City County

5154
06:02:20,788 --> 06:02:23,724
Environmental Affairs Board, Land Use and Planning

5155
06:02:23,724 --> 06:02:28,328
Subcommittee. We have reviewed this annexation, and I am

5156
06:02:28,328 --> 06:02:31,399
opposed to the request as presented. This opposition is

5157
06:02:31,399 --> 06:02:34,335
based first and foremost on the absence of any enforceable

5158
06:02:34,335 --> 06:02:37,338
mechanism to ensure that environmental protections

5159
06:02:37,338 --> 06:02:39,874
discussed during the review process would be carried

5160
06:02:39,874 --> 06:02:42,810
forward and upheld over the life of the project. The

5161
06:02:42,810 --> 06:02:45,946
application proposes annexation into the city without a

5162
06:02:45,946 --> 06:02:49,550
concurrent zoning map change or binding development plan. As a

5163
06:02:49,550 --> 06:02:53,354
result, there is no clear, enforceable framework by which

5164
06:02:53,354 --> 06:02:56,557
commitments related to stream protection, tree preservation,

5165
06:02:56,557 --> 06:02:59,894
stormwater management, or construction practices could be

5166
06:02:59,894 --> 06:03:03,697
guaranteed. In the absence of such a framework. EIB Land Use

5167
06:03:03,697 --> 06:03:06,167
and Planning Subcommittee cannot evaluate the

5168
06:03:06,167 --> 06:03:08,569
environmental impacts of the project with sufficient

5169
06:03:08,569 --> 06:03:12,239
confidence to support annexation. While the proposal

5170
06:03:12,239 --> 06:03:14,909
is described as a conservation subdivision, preserving

5171
06:03:14,909 --> 06:03:18,646
approximately 50% open space. We note that this figure

5172
06:03:18,646 --> 06:03:21,449
includes areas that are already constrained from development,

5173
06:03:21,449 --> 06:03:24,384
such as stream buffers and floodplains. The application

5174
06:03:24,384 --> 06:03:26,521
does not demonstrate that preserved areas will be

5175
06:03:26,521 --> 06:03:29,857
contiguous, functionally protected, or managed in a way

5176
06:03:29,857 --> 06:03:33,193
that maintains the ecological integrity. Without a binding

5177
06:03:33,193 --> 06:03:36,664
plan, these areas risk becoming fragmented. Residual spaces

5178
06:03:36,664 --> 06:03:40,735
rather than meaningful conservation features. EA is

5179
06:03:40,735 --> 06:03:42,870
further concerned about the scale and duration of

5180
06:03:42,870 --> 06:03:45,539
construction activity associated with the project.

5181
06:03:45,539 --> 06:03:49,100
The proposed development includes up to 437 residential

5182
06:03:49,100 --> 06:03:52,279
units and approximately 22,000 linear feet of new roadway

5183
06:03:52,279 --> 06:03:55,150
infrastructure, with a multiyear buildout extending

5184
06:03:55,150 --> 06:03:58,615
from 2028 through 2032. Prolonged land disturbance at

5185
06:03:58,953 --> 06:04:01,975
this scale, particularly within a watershed protected area,

5186
06:04:01,975 --> 06:04:04,778
presents a significant risk of sediment transport and long

5187
06:04:04,778 --> 06:04:08,515
term degradation of downstream water quality. Thank you for

5188
06:04:08,515 --> 06:04:14,515
your time. Please vote no. Thank you. Our last speaker.

5189
06:04:22,195 --> 06:04:24,264
All right. Good morning.

5190
06:04:24,264 --> 06:04:26,650
One in the morning. This might be a new record.

5191
06:04:26,650 --> 06:04:29,650
Council. Congratulations on that record.

5192
06:04:29,936 --> 06:04:33,730
All right. Close. So let's talk.

5193
06:04:33,730 --> 06:04:36,409
A little bit about this one on the previous case before you, I

5194
06:04:36,409 --> 06:04:40,480
talked about how the standard for net per pupil had increased

5195
06:04:40,480 --> 06:04:42,616
dramatically from where we started at the baseline a

5196
06:04:42,616 --> 06:04:46,753
couple of weeks ago of 500. And I think the developer didn't,

5197
06:04:46,753 --> 06:04:48,888
or the sorry, the applicant didn't talk about this, but I

5198
06:04:48,888 --> 06:04:53,930
do want to commend them. I mean, the net per pupil

5199
06:04:53,930 --> 06:04:57,163
commitment is over is somewhere between 30. It's between 3300

5200
06:04:57,163 --> 06:05:00,500
or 3500 depending on my math, which I haven't seen those

5201
06:05:00,500 --> 06:05:03,569
numbers come up before. And I think that's I want that now to

5202
06:05:03,569 --> 06:05:06,372
be the floor. We have a developer, an applicant coming

5203
06:05:06,372 --> 06:05:08,241
here and setting that expectation going forward. I

5204
06:05:08,241 --> 06:05:11,178
think the council should be weighing future requests on

5205
06:05:11,178 --> 06:05:14,648
that expectation. Going back to the question that you asked at

5206
06:05:14,648 --> 06:05:16,983
the last meeting, Council Member Kopac, about what the

5207
06:05:16,983 --> 06:05:21,454
expectation needs to be changed around per pupil funding by the

5208
06:05:21,454 --> 06:05:24,324
applicants. But I also want to talk about this being a

5209
06:05:24,324 --> 06:05:27,194
continuous improvement process. Earlier we talked about how

5210
06:05:27,194 --> 06:05:31,394
comments from the environmental affairs folks being

5211
06:05:33,332 --> 06:05:35,868
incorporated into the documents that you received. I think

5212
06:05:35,868 --> 06:05:39,272
that's really good. I also want to continue that conversation

5213
06:05:39,272 --> 06:05:42,542
around the EMS. There were four individual elected officials

5214
06:05:42,542 --> 06:05:45,746
that spoke from the dais tonight. Council Member Kopac

5215
06:05:45,746 --> 06:05:48,681
Council Member Burris Council Member Cook and Mayor Pro Tem

5216
06:05:48,681 --> 06:05:51,350
Caballero saying, you want to see that data, right? And I

5217
06:05:51,350 --> 06:05:54,221
agree with you. I don't know this person, but some of his

5218
06:05:54,221 --> 06:05:56,356
posts have come to my attention, which is Jerry Ray.

5219
06:05:56,356 --> 06:05:58,625
And you saw that earlier on one of the slideshow presentations

5220
06:05:58,625 --> 06:06:01,940
that were before you. There are moments right now that those of

5221
06:06:01,940 --> 06:06:05,766
us who are premium taxpayers of Durham, where the emergency

5222
06:06:05,766 --> 06:06:08,235
responders go into what's called Stab mode. I had never

5223
06:06:08,235 --> 06:06:11,171
heard of that, which is that there's no ambulance available

5224
06:06:11,171 --> 06:06:13,840
to pick up the call. And that's already right now, without any

5225
06:06:13,840 --> 06:06:17,444
new approvals. So how many times have has Istat happened

5226
06:06:17,444 --> 06:06:20,460
and how are these new applications going to

5227
06:06:20,460 --> 06:06:23,316
ameliorate that or provide more capacity when as is, we can't

5228
06:06:23,316 --> 06:06:25,918
even service the calls that are being received? Thank you.

5229
06:06:25,918 --> 06:06:31,318
Thank you very much. All right. Those are our

5230
06:06:36,463 --> 06:06:43,663
speakers for this evening. Did I did I miss someone? Oh. I'm

5231
06:06:59,152 --> 06:07:02,288
sorry, you're right. Yeah. At the bottom of this page over

5232
06:07:02,288 --> 06:07:09,488
here. Yeah, good time. William. Phew. Now is a good time. Yes.

5233
06:07:09,696 --> 06:07:14,367
All right. And Randy. Few as well. Yes. Okay. Sorry about

5234
06:07:14,367 --> 06:07:19,172
that. That's all right. We didn't want to be excluded.. As

5235
06:07:19,172 --> 06:07:22,642
you know. My name is Bill few. I'm the

5236
06:07:22,642 --> 06:07:26,242
president. of Kendrick Estates Investment Corporation.

5237
06:07:26,245 --> 06:07:29,850
Kendrick Estates is a family corporation, and it is the

5238
06:07:29,850 --> 06:07:37,500
owner of Morgan Farms. We have as a family held this property

5239
06:07:38,125 --> 06:07:44,125
for five generations. Now, as an investment to recover the

5240
06:07:45,665 --> 06:07:51,738
growing timber value and as a potential and for its potential

5241
06:07:51,738 --> 06:07:56,275
development. The growing timber on the property has been

5242
06:07:56,275 --> 06:08:01,750
managed in compliance with the professional Management Plan

5243
06:08:01,414 --> 06:08:07,687
for forestry for decades now, and the timber is mature and

5244
06:08:07,687 --> 06:08:14,160
ready to be cut. So we must, in order to maintain our

5245
06:08:14,160 --> 06:08:19,365
compliance with the plan, either timber, the property or

5246
06:08:19,365 --> 06:08:25,365
do something else. If we don't maintain compliance with the

5247
06:08:26,506 --> 06:08:31,440
timber management plan will likely lose our present use

5248
06:08:31,440 --> 06:08:35,449
valuation for property taxes for the property. It will be

5249
06:08:35,449 --> 06:08:40,520
reappraised at its highest and best use, and it will be simply

5250
06:08:40,520 --> 06:08:44,857
unaffordable for the family to maintain and hold on to the

5251
06:08:44,857 --> 06:08:50,257
property any longer. Timbering. The timbering. The property is

5252
06:08:53,800 --> 06:08:58,204
not our preference, however, so we have an opportunity as an

5253
06:08:58,204 --> 06:09:01,942
alternative to tempering the property. The property to

5254
06:09:01,942 --> 06:09:05,612
develop the property. With MI homes as a conservation

5255
06:09:05,612 --> 06:09:10,412
subdivision, preserve the hardwood forest and pine timber

5256
06:09:11,551 --> 06:09:17,490
forest on the property, and extend a sewer line to

5257
06:09:17,490 --> 06:09:21,628
Farrington Mill Road at the developer's expense, which is

5258
06:09:21,628 --> 06:09:28,301
needed. So, in conclusion, I'd simply like to say that I think

5259
06:09:28,301 --> 06:09:33,106
the best of all alternatives is for us to develop the property

5260
06:09:33,106 --> 06:09:38,912
with MI homes as a conservation subdivision, and in order to do

5261
06:09:38,912 --> 06:09:42,716
that, to preserve the pine and hardwood forests on the

5262
06:09:42,716 --> 06:09:45,716
property and the environment. Annexation.

5263
06:09:46,652 --> 06:09:50,852
Thank you. Is necessary by the City

5264
06:09:51,257 --> 06:09:54,257
Council. Thank you. Thank you.

5265
06:09:58,931 --> 06:10:02,802
Good evening. I'm Randy, one of the owners of the Morgan Farm

5266
06:10:02,802 --> 06:10:05,202
property in development. Discussions.

5267
06:10:05,271 --> 06:10:08,674
There's often the perception that projects are driven solely

5268
06:10:08,674 --> 06:10:11,896
by outside interests, with little regard for the land or

5269
06:10:11,896 --> 06:10:16,567
community. That is not always the case behind many greenfield

5270
06:10:16,567 --> 06:10:19,637
proposals. As a family, trying to make thoughtful, long term

5271
06:10:19,637 --> 06:10:23,908
decisions. And that is our story. Morgan Farm is part of

5272
06:10:23,908 --> 06:10:29,180
the original 680 acre Sheffield farm, which has been in my

5273
06:10:29,180 --> 06:10:33,518
family for more than 90 years. In the 1970s, more than 400

5274
06:10:33,518 --> 06:10:37,455
acres, nearly 60% of the land were conveyed or rendered

5275
06:10:37,455 --> 06:10:42,193
inaccessible as part of the Jordan Lake project. The loss

5276
06:10:42,193 --> 06:10:46,330
of pasture land, crop and hay fields to the Army Corps of

5277
06:10:46,330 --> 06:10:49,601
Engineers fundamentally changed the agricultural potential of

5278
06:10:49,601 --> 06:10:54,205
the property. Since the 1970s, we have believed this land

5279
06:10:54,205 --> 06:10:57,800
would one day be appropriate for development. We have made

5280
06:10:57,800 --> 06:10:59,944
deliberate decisions to retain the land rather than pursue

5281
06:10:59,944 --> 06:11:03,948
piecemeal or premature development. We waited, often

5282
06:11:03,948 --> 06:11:07,152
at the encouragement of planning staff and elected

5283
06:11:07,152 --> 06:11:10,555
officials, until public utilities were accessible so

5284
06:11:10,555 --> 06:11:13,692
the property could be planned comprehensively and developed

5285
06:11:13,692 --> 06:11:17,162
in a more environmentally responsible way, without

5286
06:11:17,162 --> 06:11:21,166
reliance on septic systems or other on site wastewater

5287
06:11:21,166 --> 06:11:25,170
solutions. This belief was reinforced by the construction

5288
06:11:25,170 --> 06:11:27,839
of the nearby wastewater treatment facility and the

5289
06:11:27,839 --> 06:11:31,575
water line along Farrington Mill Road. The city modified

5290
06:11:31,575 --> 06:11:36,114
the urban growth boundary some 25 years ago to include our

5291
06:11:36,114 --> 06:11:40,318
land. This is not a short term or speculative endeavor, but

5292
06:11:40,318 --> 06:11:43,121
reflects a consistent commitment to align the future

5293
06:11:43,121 --> 06:11:46,390
of this property and its transition with Durham's long

5294
06:11:46,390 --> 06:11:49,527
standing growth plan. After more than 90 years of

5295
06:11:49,527 --> 06:11:52,630
stewardship, we believe this proposal represents a

5296
06:11:52,630 --> 06:11:56,100
responsible transition, preserving 50% of the land is

5297
06:11:56,100 --> 06:12:00,605
open space, providing needed housing within the urban growth

5298
06:12:00,605 --> 06:12:04,942
boundary, and aligns with the policies and planning that have

5299
06:12:04,942 --> 06:12:08,412
guided this area for decades. Thank you. In addition, it adds

5300
06:12:08,412 --> 06:12:11,412
$1 million to Durham's dedicated housing.

5301
06:12:11,416 --> 06:12:14,619
Thank you. Can I respond to one other

5302
06:12:14,619 --> 06:12:19,419
thing regarding regarding the question of conservation? Oh

5303
06:12:21,893 --> 06:12:26,693
yeah. Entities interested in purchasing the the property,

5304
06:12:27,498 --> 06:12:30,635
these conservation entities should talk to the owners and

5305
06:12:30,635 --> 06:12:35,239
not the neighbors. I think I speak for my cousin. We have as

5306
06:12:35,239 --> 06:12:41,239
well. We've had no discussions with our contact from County.

5307
06:12:44,448 --> 06:12:48,253
To be clear, the these are the property owners with the

5308
06:12:48,253 --> 06:12:52,256
applicant. So they actually do get to respond.

5309
06:12:52,256 --> 06:12:57,661
Yeah. And and and Mr. Cowan is right. In fact, he sent me the

5310
06:12:57,661 --> 06:13:02,670
email saying that there was this some unknown group who was

5311
06:13:02,670 --> 06:13:07,272
interested in the in doing this. And was it okay for him

5312
06:13:07,272 --> 06:13:11,275
to send my contact information to them? I said, yes, fine.

5313
06:13:11,275 --> 06:13:17,275
Never heard anything. And this was February. Thank you sir.

5314
06:13:18,483 --> 06:13:23,210
Thank you again and my apologies about that mix up.

5315
06:13:23,210 --> 06:13:27,910
There are there is equal time to both sides, proponent and

5316
06:13:27,910 --> 06:13:31,962
opponent. So it's been about an hour and a half or two for the

5317
06:13:31,962 --> 06:13:35,767
opponents. Technically it could be the same for the others.

5318
06:13:35,767 --> 06:13:39,571
Hopefully you guys won't take that, but that's usually how it

5319
06:13:39,571 --> 06:13:44,843
works. All right. I don't have any other speakers. Applicant

5320
06:13:44,843 --> 06:13:52,430
would you care to respond? So a lot has been said tonight

5321
06:13:59,390 --> 06:14:03,728
and I know it's late or early. I appreciate your attention.

5322
06:14:03,728 --> 06:14:07,331
And what is a straightforward planning request. But obviously

5323
06:14:07,331 --> 06:14:11,200
a complicated emotional request when you take into account the

5324
06:14:11,200 --> 06:14:15,600
folks that live closest to this property in the Montclair and

5325
06:14:15,600 --> 06:14:19,277
Chapel Wood neighborhoods. And we understand their sentiments.

5326
06:14:19,277 --> 06:14:25,149
But they were just like, just like us. Ten, 20 years ago when

5327
06:14:25,149 --> 06:14:28,820
this property was held by the few family. For the last almost

5328
06:14:28,820 --> 06:14:31,823
a century, they've been here. Stewardship of the land.

5329
06:14:31,823 --> 06:14:35,293
Following the directives of the Planning department of City

5330
06:14:35,293 --> 06:14:38,562
councils before you and maintaining this land for

5331
06:14:38,562 --> 06:14:41,299
conservation, they've been doing exactly what these groups

5332
06:14:41,299 --> 06:14:43,568
are now turning and asking them to do. Except those

5333
06:14:43,568 --> 06:14:47,772
subdivisions were approved by council in 2012 with the same

5334
06:14:47,772 --> 06:14:50,975
density that we're asking to come before you today. They're

5335
06:14:50,975 --> 06:14:53,711
up here complaining about what we understand are valid

5336
06:14:53,711 --> 06:14:57,480
concerns about traffic and patterns that they experience

5337
06:14:57,480 --> 06:14:59,984
in their daily lives because their neighborhoods were

5338
06:14:59,984 --> 06:15:03,540
approved by this council at the same density that we're asking

5339
06:15:03,540 --> 06:15:06,524
to be approved here today. And so we understand those are

5340
06:15:06,524 --> 06:15:09,794
existing problems that exist because their neighborhoods

5341
06:15:09,794 --> 06:15:13,665
were allowed to go ahead, just like the 437 families that

5342
06:15:13,665 --> 06:15:17,335
we're trying to house to house. Durham's shortfall, where these

5343
06:15:17,335 --> 06:15:20,138
people are moving to Durham at an accelerated rate, and they

5344
06:15:20,138 --> 06:15:23,208
need to live somewhere. The folks that are here, before you

5345
06:15:23,208 --> 06:15:26,210
were given that chance, and we're asking you to give the

5346
06:15:26,210 --> 06:15:31,140
437 families that we'd be able to house here the same chance.

5347
06:15:31,140 --> 06:15:34,218
Now that density is able to come here one way or another,

5348
06:15:34,218 --> 06:15:37,554
but the only way that the Durham gets meaningful public

5349
06:15:37,554 --> 06:15:40,758
interest benefits, the $1 million towards the Down

5350
06:15:40,758 --> 06:15:44,280
Payment Assistance Fund, the money towards the schools, the

5351
06:15:44,280 --> 06:15:47,365
money towards the EMS. And I misspoke earlier. It's actually

5352
06:15:47,365 --> 06:15:51,436
$3.5 million of transportation improvements that the developer

5353
06:15:51,436 --> 06:15:53,971
would be bearing. You heard one of the neighbors mentioned the

5354
06:15:53,971 --> 06:15:57,108
$10 million of sewer infrastructure that would be

5355
06:15:57,108 --> 06:16:01,579
extended to this area. All of that is possible if these same

5356
06:16:01,579 --> 06:16:05,583
437 families get the same opportunities that everyone

5357
06:16:05,583 --> 06:16:08,583
before you here tonight received.

5358
06:16:10,188 --> 06:16:16,788
We will not do that. I'd like to briefly hit just

5359
06:16:16,994 --> 06:16:19,530
several of the points that were made. Lots of points were made

5360
06:16:19,530 --> 06:16:22,160
here tonight. I've just liked to follow up on the several

5361
06:16:22,160 --> 06:16:25,753
that I think are most salient. There was discussion of the

5362
06:16:25,753 --> 06:16:29,891
cost benefit analysis and how we weigh our environmental

5363
06:16:29,891 --> 06:16:34,762
areas depending on what the the annexation provides in the cost

5364
06:16:34,762 --> 06:16:38,766
benefit analysis. I'd like to turn your your attention to

5365
06:16:38,766 --> 06:16:42,971
attachments with G and H, which shows that the financial

5366
06:16:42,971 --> 06:16:46,441
analysis that your staff did shows the project will be

5367
06:16:46,441 --> 06:16:49,844
revenue positive for the city over a ten year period. So the

5368
06:16:49,844 --> 06:16:52,980
financials that we discussed about those improvements of all

5369
06:16:52,980 --> 06:16:56,651
the extensions that we provided by the developer, would also

5370
06:16:56,651 --> 06:17:00,388
end up having a positive net flow for for revenue for the

5371
06:17:00,388 --> 06:17:03,725
city based on property tax and other improvements and fees

5372
06:17:03,725 --> 06:17:06,261
that the development would produce going forward. At the

5373
06:17:06,261 --> 06:17:10,640
same time, no operational analysis and operational

5374
06:17:10,640 --> 06:17:12,266
analysis does not show any deficiencies in service. So

5375
06:17:12,266 --> 06:17:16,400
you're getting positive cash flow without detracting from

5376
06:17:16,400 --> 06:17:19,940
deficiencies. And we heard about some concerns there.

5377
06:17:19,940 --> 06:17:24,813
Second, there were policy cited as to the comprehensive plans.

5378
06:17:24,813 --> 06:17:29,350
Policy 7981 and 83 about not disturbing the North Carolina

5379
06:17:29,350 --> 06:17:33,870
Heritage Program. The heritage Program is a voluntary program,

5380
06:17:33,870 --> 06:17:35,623
and we understand the comprehensive plan adopted the

5381
06:17:35,623 --> 06:17:39,270
open space designation and alliance to a great extent with

5382
06:17:39,270 --> 06:17:41,629
the hardwoods that are protected under that voluntary

5383
06:17:41,629 --> 06:17:45,233
state program. But the reality is that the Comprehensive Plan

5384
06:17:45,233 --> 06:17:49,170
of the City of Durham cannot be used to penalize an existing

5385
06:17:49,170 --> 06:17:52,239
owner who has maintained the hardwoods on these years under

5386
06:17:52,239 --> 06:17:57,512
a voluntary program, and take that same that same

5387
06:17:57,512 --> 06:18:00,581
justification and say that this should be denied because it's

5388
06:18:00,581 --> 06:18:04,520
inconsistent. What we've done here is preserve the majority

5389
06:18:04,520 --> 06:18:07,255
of the hardwoods that we're able to be preserved. 60% of

5390
06:18:07,255 --> 06:18:10,725
that North Carolina Heritage Program Natural area is able to

5391
06:18:10,725 --> 06:18:14,462
be preserved in the filed conservation plan that is with

5392
06:18:14,462 --> 06:18:17,865
the city and will be binding once approved. Again, the

5393
06:18:17,865 --> 06:18:21,669
restrictive covenants for open space require any owner of the

5394
06:18:21,669 --> 06:18:24,939
land to follow that that open space, and so protecting the

5395
06:18:24,939 --> 06:18:28,900
North Carolina Heritage Program, which is voluntary and

5396
06:18:28,900 --> 06:18:32,279
not regulatory, is the only way that those hardwoods have

5397
06:18:32,279 --> 06:18:35,349
protection. The annexation is denied tonight, and that's the

5398
06:18:35,349 --> 06:18:37,819
will of the council. There is no protection for those

5399
06:18:37,819 --> 06:18:40,221
hardwoods. So we can talk about how much we want to preserve

5400
06:18:40,221 --> 06:18:42,691
them and how much we want to follow. The comprehensive plan.

5401
06:18:42,691 --> 06:18:46,227
But the reality is there are landowner rights that these

5402
06:18:46,227 --> 06:18:50,980
folks have had and held this hardwood forest intact,

5403
06:18:50,980 --> 06:18:53,368
providing 100% candidate fee for everything that you see on

5404
06:18:53,368 --> 06:18:57,238
site today. For the last hundred years they've done that

5405
06:18:57,238 --> 06:19:00,175
time, they've done that service for the public, and it's time

5406
06:19:00,175 --> 06:19:02,911
for them to be able to move forward and to move on and take

5407
06:19:02,911 --> 06:19:05,179
care of their own families. With respect to the two

5408
06:19:05,179 --> 06:19:07,915
historic buildings, there was concern that Preservation

5409
06:19:07,915 --> 06:19:10,718
Durham had not been consulted. I believe that we made that

5410
06:19:10,718 --> 06:19:12,720
clear and provided that letter with the support of

5411
06:19:12,720 --> 06:19:16,457
Preservation Durham. They are ready to take the maintenance

5412
06:19:16,457 --> 06:19:19,527
of those two structures and work with us. Those are shown

5413
06:19:19,527 --> 06:19:22,530
on the conservation subdivision plan that we filed with the

5414
06:19:22,530 --> 06:19:25,867
city. There was concern over a potential burial ground and not

5415
06:19:25,867 --> 06:19:29,537
enough investigation done on that. We sent materials over to

5416
06:19:29,537 --> 06:19:33,208
you in an email last week that showed that there was an

5417
06:19:33,208 --> 06:19:35,944
initial indication that there could be potential burial

5418
06:19:35,944 --> 06:19:38,679
grounds based on that periwinkle and headstones. We

5419
06:19:38,679 --> 06:19:42,350
had a consultant named Spangler go out there in 2023 and

5420
06:19:42,350 --> 06:19:45,620
investigate the very area that was suspected for potential

5421
06:19:45,620 --> 06:19:49,357
burial grounds, and found no evidence of cemeteries or

5422
06:19:49,357 --> 06:19:52,894
burial grounds in the area that was initially initially

5423
06:19:52,894 --> 06:19:55,496
inspected. So there was a suspicion of it. It was

5424
06:19:55,496 --> 06:19:59,501
inspected and no evidence was found with respect to the

5425
06:19:59,501 --> 06:20:04,172
comments, about 40% wetlands on our site. That is not true. If

5426
06:20:04,172 --> 06:20:06,374
you look at the conservation subdivision, there is no

5427
06:20:06,374 --> 06:20:08,977
indication that there's 40% of the sites being taken up by

5428
06:20:08,977 --> 06:20:11,913
wetlands. There's a tremendous amount of hardwoods on the

5429
06:20:11,913 --> 06:20:14,515
site, and again, those are being protected by our ability

5430
06:20:14,515 --> 06:20:16,117
to move forward with the annexation. And this

5431
06:20:16,117 --> 06:20:20,317
conservation subdivision. With respect to just speaking

5432
06:20:20,522 --> 06:20:25,126
briefly on the offer to to purchase, this case has been

5433
06:20:25,126 --> 06:20:27,996
before you for three years at any time, a legitimate offer

5434
06:20:27,996 --> 06:20:30,264
could have been made by a conservation group stepping

5435
06:20:30,264 --> 06:20:33,670
forward and expressing all of the passion that you've heard

5436
06:20:33,670 --> 06:20:35,269
tonight, that we want to save these hardwoods. We want to

5437
06:20:35,269 --> 06:20:37,939
protect this. The best thing we can do is protect this forest.

5438
06:20:37,939 --> 06:20:40,742
And the reality is there has not been any offer made to

5439
06:20:40,742 --> 06:20:43,744
these folks. And so they've done the best they can after

5440
06:20:43,744 --> 06:20:47,481
taking care of this land for nearly 90 years. And they're

5441
06:20:47,481 --> 06:20:49,884
moving forward with the best group that they could find that

5442
06:20:49,884 --> 06:20:52,554
would make a commitment to file a conservation plan. And that's

5443
06:20:52,554 --> 06:20:55,690
exactly what MI homes did. They filed the conservation plan,

5444
06:20:55,690 --> 06:20:58,920
saving as much of this hardwoods as possible and

5445
06:20:58,920 --> 06:21:00,628
making good on the promise to try to do the best they could

5446
06:21:00,628 --> 06:21:04,980
in a new form of stewardship of the land. With respect to the

5447
06:21:04,980 --> 06:21:06,834
Tia, I mentioned that the improvements that we would be

5448
06:21:06,834 --> 06:21:10,505
committing to would be 3.5 million. It's important that

5449
06:21:10,505 --> 06:21:13,641
that's not just to serve the development, of course, that

5450
06:21:13,641 --> 06:21:16,243
relates to our traffic. But as you've heard tonight from the

5451
06:21:16,243 --> 06:21:18,713
very folks that want you to turn down this annexation, the

5452
06:21:18,713 --> 06:21:21,716
problems they're experiencing exists today. There's a

5453
06:21:21,716 --> 06:21:24,520
citation of the level of service going to the level of

5454
06:21:24,520 --> 06:21:27,455
service F without Morgan Farm. What does that mean? You've got

5455
06:21:27,455 --> 06:21:30,591
an existing traffic problem, and either we pay for it or the

5456
06:21:30,591 --> 06:21:33,327
city pays for it. And the way the city pays for it is with

5457
06:21:33,327 --> 06:21:36,797
taxpayer dollars. And so what we're trying to do here is to

5458
06:21:36,797 --> 06:21:40,334
balance that growth and to balance the revenue shortfalls

5459
06:21:40,334 --> 06:21:42,937
that already exist here. Those capital improvements are not

5460
06:21:42,937 --> 06:21:46,941
funded for either the for those roads to be improved. And we're

5461
06:21:46,941 --> 06:21:52,212
trying to take that burden upon ourselves. Finally, there was a

5462
06:21:52,212 --> 06:21:55,149
discussion about the sewer. I think there was some concern

5463
06:21:55,149 --> 06:21:57,818
about an aerial sewer crossing that is not part of the plan.

5464
06:21:57,818 --> 06:22:02,900
The UEA does require sewer improvements to the tune of $10

5465
06:22:02,900 --> 06:22:05,493
million, as was stated earlier. And that's important because

5466
06:22:05,493 --> 06:22:08,495
the only reason this area is in the future growth area is

5467
06:22:08,495 --> 06:22:12,330
because the city contemplated that a sewer has to be extended

5468
06:22:12,330 --> 06:22:14,568
here, and it has to be extended either by a capital

5469
06:22:14,568 --> 06:22:18,390
improvements project or by private investment. We're here

5470
06:22:18,390 --> 06:22:20,708
before you to try to extend that sewer for the private

5471
06:22:20,708 --> 06:22:23,511
investment, to help people like Mrs. Quinn, who unfortunately

5472
06:22:23,511 --> 06:22:26,647
couldn't stay because of her health issues but has been

5473
06:22:26,647 --> 06:22:30,510
waiting on things that these people already get to exist.

5474
06:22:30,510 --> 06:22:34,270
They already have an ability to have that sewer connection that

5475
06:22:34,270 --> 06:22:37,540
Miss Quinn and her neighbors do not. And so we're asking you

5476
06:22:37,540 --> 06:22:41,477
tonight to look at the the positive outcome that could be

5477
06:22:41,477 --> 06:22:44,480
with the approval of this annexation tonight, not only

5478
06:22:44,480 --> 06:22:47,550
from a revenue perspective that's set forth in your in

5479
06:22:47,550 --> 06:22:50,353
your manager's report, but also from a conservation

5480
06:22:50,353 --> 06:22:52,755
perspective, and that we've done everything we can to

5481
06:22:52,755 --> 06:22:56,920
provide the binding commitments that that existed before you,

5482
06:22:56,920 --> 06:22:58,761
but taking them to the next level by tripling the amount of

5483
06:22:58,761 --> 06:23:02,298
open space, by providing the same amount of stock of housing

5484
06:23:02,298 --> 06:23:05,768
and doing it in the best way possible to protect the trees

5485
06:23:05,768 --> 06:23:08,838
that do not have a protection today and will leave the

5486
06:23:08,838 --> 06:23:12,308
landowners with no other choice but to follow the forestry plan

5487
06:23:12,308 --> 06:23:16,512
and to timber these these trees that have been growing for

5488
06:23:16,512 --> 06:23:19,582
quite some time. That's not a a threat of what could happen.

5489
06:23:19,582 --> 06:23:21,985
That's just the reality of what's been binding on the

5490
06:23:21,985 --> 06:23:25,121
site. That's the reality of the existing regulations. You have

5491
06:23:25,121 --> 06:23:29,325
the power tonight to choose. Yes, to protect that forest by

5492
06:23:29,325 --> 06:23:34,196
choosing no and denying the annexation. You will leave the

5493
06:23:34,196 --> 06:23:37,867
owners with very little decision but to leave the the

5494
06:23:37,867 --> 06:23:40,469
trees with the protection they have today, which is nothing.

5495
06:23:40,469 --> 06:23:42,472
And we don't think that's what the neighbors want. We don't

5496
06:23:42,472 --> 06:23:45,408
think that's what you want. We're happy to answer further

5497
06:23:45,408 --> 06:23:47,477
questions. I know it's been a long night and an early

5498
06:23:47,477 --> 06:23:51,140
morning, but we appreciate you giving this a lot of thought.

5499
06:23:51,140 --> 06:23:53,416
We certainly have. We know the neighbors have and we

5500
06:23:53,416 --> 06:23:59,416
appreciate your support. Thank you so much. I don't have

5501
06:24:00,890 --> 06:24:04,293
any further speakers. So therefore I will declare the

5502
06:24:04,293 --> 06:24:09,693
public hearing closed and back and forth. The Council.

5503
06:24:20,176 --> 06:24:21,778
Oh my. God.

5504
06:24:21,778 --> 06:24:27,383
Yeah I feel yeah. Council member. But I am really

5505
06:24:27,383 --> 06:24:29,985
appreciative of everyone been here tonight. Not casting any

5506
06:24:29,985 --> 06:24:34,391
shade. Y'all are welcome. Well, he be here as long as you need

5507
06:24:34,391 --> 06:24:37,127
us to be. So really appreciate the engagement this evening and

5508
06:24:37,127 --> 06:24:40,730
the thoughtful back and forth we've seen with the residents

5509
06:24:40,730 --> 06:24:46,402
and the and the applicant. So some questions for staff,

5510
06:24:46,402 --> 06:24:48,738
because I still feel like I'm seeking some clarity on

5511
06:24:48,738 --> 06:24:52,875
understanding what the potential paths forward are.

5512
06:24:52,875 --> 06:24:56,879
There's, you know, concerns around trust of like what is

5513
06:24:56,879 --> 06:24:59,883
actually committed to or not. So some of the initial

5514
06:24:59,883 --> 06:25:02,686
questions are, first of all, like is the conservation

5515
06:25:02,686 --> 06:25:06,886
subdivision guaranteed under the Utility Extension agreement

5516
06:25:06,889 --> 06:25:11,227
and the CS filing. It is not. They have the

5517
06:25:11,227 --> 06:25:14,698
applicant has submitted a conservation subdivision

5518
06:25:14,698 --> 06:25:18,567
application. So that application is in process. But

5519
06:25:18,567 --> 06:25:23,706
any applicant has the ability to withdraw an application at

5520
06:25:23,706 --> 06:25:27,510
any time. And is there a way forward

5521
06:25:27,510 --> 06:25:32,982
where that is agreed to and guaranteed? Is there any way to

5522
06:25:32,982 --> 06:25:34,450
get to that point of confidence?

5523
06:25:34,450 --> 06:25:42,250
So I mean, in theory, the applicant could put a, a pro a

5524
06:25:42,658 --> 06:25:49,258
commitment within the UEA that the UEA could only be extended

5525
06:25:49,332 --> 06:25:53,202
to a conservation subdivision. And if there was going to be

5526
06:25:53,202 --> 06:25:56,500
something other than a conservation subdivision on the

5527
06:25:56,500 --> 06:25:59,342
site, the UEA would need to come back before the council to

5528
06:25:59,342 --> 06:26:01,677
get approved. So that's not currently what is

5529
06:26:01,677 --> 06:26:03,145
in the. That is not currently in the

5530
06:26:03,145 --> 06:26:06,745
UEA. Okay. How is the conservation

5531
06:26:08,840 --> 06:26:10,953
subdivision filed without a piece of metal meeting? How

5532
06:26:10,953 --> 06:26:13,556
does that work in there? Would there would have been a

5533
06:26:13,556 --> 06:26:16,893
pre submittal meeting with the major with the land development

5534
06:26:16,893 --> 06:26:19,762
review staff in our department. Okay. So there was that

5535
06:26:19,762 --> 06:26:22,899
meeting. That should that should. Well

5536
06:26:22,899 --> 06:26:25,902
actually yeah I'm trying to think they do things a little

5537
06:26:25,902 --> 06:26:28,571
bit differently in land development review. I believe

5538
06:26:28,571 --> 06:26:31,390
they have the neighborhood meeting first and then the pre

5539
06:26:31,390 --> 06:26:34,910
submittal. Is that right. Yeah I think they do the the

5540
06:26:34,910 --> 06:26:37,780
neighborhood meeting first and then have the pre submittal. So

5541
06:26:37,780 --> 06:26:41,490
that pre submittal may not have taken place yet. It has taken

5542
06:26:41,490 --> 06:26:44,920
place. Okay. And then in terms of concerns

5543
06:26:44,920 --> 06:26:47,790
around the management of the land for environmental purposes

5544
06:26:47,790 --> 06:26:50,793
through a transitional zoning and the absence of enforcement

5545
06:26:50,793 --> 06:26:54,997
mechanisms. Is that the case that we're facing?

5546
06:26:54,997 --> 06:26:56,398
I'm sorry, rephrase that please.

5547
06:26:56,398 --> 06:27:00,603
So is there any way oversight and enforcement, you know, by

5548
06:27:00,603 --> 06:27:06,609
the city and development or in planning over the practices of

5549
06:27:06,609 --> 06:27:08,677
the build out of the conservation subdivision

5550
06:27:08,677 --> 06:27:10,679
through this translational zoning?

5551
06:27:10,679 --> 06:27:12,682
Well, there would need to be a there would be a requirement

5552
06:27:12,682 --> 06:27:16,352
for a site plan to be submitted, and that site plan

5553
06:27:16,352 --> 06:27:18,821
would need to be followed. And that would follow.

5554
06:27:18,821 --> 06:27:21,958
That would. be that would be the standard same way we would

5555
06:27:21,958 --> 06:27:27,763
do it with any other site plan. Okay. Next, just trying to

5556
06:27:27,763 --> 06:27:34,363
understand the potential paths forward. So is there a way for

5557
06:27:38,410 --> 06:27:42,444
this land to be developed as been described by right,

5558
06:27:42,444 --> 06:27:44,844
without the annexation? Yes.

5559
06:27:45,248 --> 06:27:48,651
And is that what single family homes with septic.

5560
06:27:48,651 --> 06:27:51,988
Single family homes without access to water and sewer so

5561
06:27:51,988 --> 06:27:53,990
well in septic. Okay. And so we have the

5562
06:27:53,990 --> 06:27:59,990
annexation or we have single family homes with, you know,

5563
06:28:00,195 --> 06:28:03,195
with septic or there's potential.

5564
06:28:04,400 --> 06:28:07,403
There could also they could do a community waste wastewater

5565
06:28:07,403 --> 06:28:10,406
system. They could do a community well system. There

5566
06:28:10,406 --> 06:28:12,809
are those are difficult and expensive. But those are

5567
06:28:12,809 --> 06:28:14,544
possible okay. And then there's the

5568
06:28:14,544 --> 06:28:19,944
possibility of the the trees just being clear cut.

5569
06:28:20,883 --> 06:28:22,284
Forestry management. Planning what we've.

5570
06:28:22,284 --> 06:28:25,354
Heard right in a conventional subdivision, there's no

5571
06:28:25,354 --> 06:28:29,554
requirement for. Is there an identified wildlife

5572
06:28:31,561 --> 06:28:36,832
corridor. So we do not there is not an

5573
06:28:36,832 --> 06:28:40,503
open space, an adopted open space plan in this part of the

5574
06:28:40,503 --> 06:28:45,903
county. So there's not a locally adopted and identified

5575
06:28:45,989 --> 06:28:50,600
wildlife corridor. Was not a been identified.

5576
06:28:50,600 --> 06:28:54,260
There may be something identified through other

5577
06:28:54,264 --> 06:28:58,200
mechanisms, but we as staff do not see an adopted wildlife

5578
06:28:58,200 --> 06:29:00,671
corridor in any of our local plans because we don't have one

5579
06:29:00,671 --> 06:29:03,407
for this area. I may have some additional

5580
06:29:03,407 --> 06:29:06,210
questions and thoughts. I'll pause there. I just want to

5581
06:29:06,210 --> 06:29:08,145
make sure we're understanding all the potential paths

5582
06:29:08,145 --> 06:29:11,748
forward. So we're being thoughtful. Understand this is

5583
06:29:11,748 --> 06:29:14,618
an area of high ecological sensitivity. There's concerns

5584
06:29:14,618 --> 06:29:20,290
around the traffic. You know those things matter. I also

5585
06:29:20,290 --> 06:29:23,561
want to make sure we're not what's the expression? You

5586
06:29:23,561 --> 06:29:27,764
know, cutting off our nose to spite our face based on what

5587
06:29:27,764 --> 06:29:32,636
the outcome could be, if that is ultimately a worse outcome

5588
06:29:32,636 --> 06:29:35,439
from an environmental standpoint and from a neighbor

5589
06:29:35,439 --> 06:29:40,377
preference standpoint. And I'm not fully confident that I

5590
06:29:40,377 --> 06:29:45,583
understand and convinced that that I, you know, I kind of

5591
06:29:45,583 --> 06:29:47,851
know what the outcome will be of a yes or a no, which

5592
06:29:47,851 --> 06:29:54,451
sometimes is easier to discern. So I'm going to pause there.

5593
06:29:58,129 --> 06:30:01,264
That's next. Yeah. Go ahead. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. I'll jump

5594
06:30:01,264 --> 06:30:03,334
in. Yeah. Thanks, Council Member Kopac for the for the

5595
06:30:03,334 --> 06:30:09,206
comments and questions. I mean. Yeah, there are so many

5596
06:30:09,206 --> 06:30:12,543
questions here that I think folks have raised here. Also

5597
06:30:12,543 --> 06:30:15,479
the late breaking. I appreciate the late breaking to the

5598
06:30:15,479 --> 06:30:18,616
investment in roads as well as the conservation subdivision.

5599
06:30:18,616 --> 06:30:20,951
I've got questions for staff. Actually, I have one question

5600
06:30:20,951 --> 06:30:23,421
on that. I have a million, but let me ask this one. So I know

5601
06:30:23,421 --> 06:30:26,557
that I know there was a court case about like Mason farm

5602
06:30:26,557 --> 06:30:28,826
related to conservation subdivision. That was the case

5603
06:30:28,826 --> 06:30:31,362
against the county, not against the city. There were those

5604
06:30:31,362 --> 06:30:34,899
requirements for conservation subdivision. Have we have we

5605
06:30:34,899 --> 06:30:37,101
changed things based on the case, like what is how does

5606
06:30:37,101 --> 06:30:40,237
that case relate to what what we're here considering for the

5607
06:30:40,237 --> 06:30:42,239
city of Durham. So the.

5608
06:30:42,239 --> 06:30:44,508
Ordinance was. Changed subsequent to.

5609
06:30:44,508 --> 06:30:48,913
That case. Now the. The issue that was in question.

5610
06:30:48,913 --> 06:30:51,515
As to whether or not the purposes were requirements as

5611
06:30:51,515 --> 06:30:55,786
opposed to purposes, that has been clarified. The purposes

5612
06:30:55,786 --> 06:31:01,125
are just intent statements. They are not regulatory. And so

5613
06:31:01,125 --> 06:31:03,794
what what applies are the primary and secondary

5614
06:31:03,794 --> 06:31:06,196
conservation areas, the requirements for those that are

5615
06:31:06,196 --> 06:31:08,999
further down in that section. So that has been clarified.

5616
06:31:08,999 --> 06:31:12,336
That is not an issue. I'm sorry, I don't quite

5617
06:31:12,336 --> 06:31:15,500
understand. So so they so we've changed the language. So it's

5618
06:31:15,500 --> 06:31:18,342
no longer is it something that shall or may or something like

5619
06:31:18,342 --> 06:31:20,478
that. Correct. It just clarifies that

5620
06:31:20,478 --> 06:31:22,946
the purposes are not regulatory.

5621
06:31:22,946 --> 06:31:27,617
Or not. So that so there's these 14 like purposes that all

5622
06:31:27,617 --> 06:31:29,953
14th May be met or just one. Right.

5623
06:31:29,953 --> 06:31:33,553
Correct. Okay. Yeah. Following the lines

5624
06:31:36,426 --> 06:31:38,362
that Council Member Kopac was going down, I think there's

5625
06:31:38,362 --> 06:31:40,497
different options here. Right. We could if we don't. And then

5626
06:31:40,497 --> 06:31:42,566
I think the attorneys have been clear about this. If we don't

5627
06:31:42,566 --> 06:31:45,569
annex this property, there could be logging, there could

5628
06:31:45,569 --> 06:31:47,838
be development by right, the same amount of units that that

5629
06:31:47,838 --> 06:31:51,175
were have been proposed by the development team. So I think

5630
06:31:51,175 --> 06:31:54,979
we've got I think we're between a rock and a hard place here. I

5631
06:31:54,979 --> 06:31:58,115
think there's a lot of questions around what the Tia

5632
06:31:58,115 --> 06:32:01,251
would actually do that's have not been validated to me.

5633
06:32:01,251 --> 06:32:04,321
There's it's like 130 in the morning. We outlasted the

5634
06:32:04,321 --> 06:32:06,856
hurricanes game. They want to double overtime. We've been

5635
06:32:06,856 --> 06:32:09,593
here longer than the hurricanes. I know Mr. Kane is

5636
06:32:09,593 --> 06:32:13,330
a big fan of the canes. Sorry you missed the game. I like I'm

5637
06:32:13,330 --> 06:32:16,800
not a no on this, but it's hard to say yes given all his

5638
06:32:16,800 --> 06:32:19,870
questions. I feel like we need more time. It's like 130 in the

5639
06:32:19,870 --> 06:32:22,873
morning. There's so much here. I think this council has done

5640
06:32:22,873 --> 06:32:25,408
good work to really wrestle down some of these cases. I

5641
06:32:25,408 --> 06:32:29,130
feel like we can't do that right now. So for me, I think

5642
06:32:29,130 --> 06:32:33,160
we need some more time. I would send this back to the to

5643
06:32:33,160 --> 06:32:34,818
planning to answer some of these questions, because I

5644
06:32:34,818 --> 06:32:36,754
think there's I think there's potential here. I think there's

5645
06:32:36,754 --> 06:32:39,890
also like risks if we don't do anything that we've not fully

5646
06:32:39,890 --> 06:32:47,900
evaluated. So I would like more time on this. Thank you, Mr.

5647
06:32:47,497 --> 06:32:51,970
Mayor. Any other comments? Yeah. Go

5648
06:32:52,836 --> 06:32:57,374
ahead. Well, I'd like to I mean, if you can make a motion,

5649
06:32:57,374 --> 06:33:00,310
that's fine. But I do want to hear everyone's comments.

5650
06:33:00,310 --> 06:33:02,513
I mean, I can I can make that motion now or I can.

5651
06:33:02,513 --> 06:33:06,713
I was still open for discussion. Okay.

5652
06:33:09,586 --> 06:33:10,854
I. I'm not sure.

5653
06:33:10,854 --> 06:33:12,923
We're going to get any more clarity if we.

5654
06:33:12,923 --> 06:33:15,459
If we spend longer on this. I think that at some point in

5655
06:33:15,459 --> 06:33:17,661
time, we're going to have to realize that we have to grapple

5656
06:33:17,661 --> 06:33:19,796
with. some unknowns, and we're going to have to make a

5657
06:33:19,796 --> 06:33:24,201
decision. I want to say thank you. I heard many of you talk

5658
06:33:24,201 --> 06:33:26,937
about our patients, and I know that I'm very wiggly up here

5659
06:33:26,937 --> 06:33:29,739
because I have horrible sciatica pain, but all we are

5660
06:33:29,739 --> 06:33:32,476
doing is sitting up here. Y'all are the ones that have come

5661
06:33:32,476 --> 06:33:35,790
out, you've researched and you've stayed up. It is 130 in

5662
06:33:35,790 --> 06:33:38,140
the morning. I want to just appreciate public comment and

5663
06:33:38,140 --> 06:33:40,617
the ability for residents to come speak to us. It is

5664
06:33:40,617 --> 06:33:43,687
amazing. As someone said earlier, it is an incredible

5665
06:33:43,687 --> 06:33:49,426
opportunity. I think we heard earlier that there was a

5666
06:33:49,426 --> 06:33:51,270
statement made that the development wouldn't move

5667
06:33:51,270 --> 06:33:55,980
forward without the annexation. That to me feels like it is the

5668
06:33:55,980 --> 06:34:01,980
likely thing to happen. We heard that this is emotional

5669
06:34:01,905 --> 06:34:04,641
and I get that it is emotional, but I also don't want to

5670
06:34:04,641 --> 06:34:08,579
discredit the like dozens of speakers who came out with

5671
06:34:08,579 --> 06:34:12,779
intensive research, photos of infrastructure, timelines for

5672
06:34:14,251 --> 06:34:20,390
plans. I mean, we have so many questions about whether any of

5673
06:34:20,390 --> 06:34:23,861
these things could happen. The Army Corps of Engineers land,

5674
06:34:23,861 --> 06:34:27,640
and whether they're going to allow the sewer, whether we're

5675
06:34:27,640 --> 06:34:29,666
going to have to end up getting those costs passed down to us

5676
06:34:29,666 --> 06:34:32,870
because of the bridge renovation. Those are the two

5677
06:34:32,870 --> 06:34:35,720
things that are kind of standing out to me in terms of

5678
06:34:35,720 --> 06:34:37,675
economic impact. And then we've heard all about this

5679
06:34:37,675 --> 06:34:42,346
environmental impact as well. I just reread the letter, the TCC

5680
06:34:42,346 --> 06:34:46,820
letter, and see that the conversations have been

5681
06:34:46,820 --> 06:34:50,420
ongoing. This one is is easy to me. I think we've heard y'all

5682
06:34:50,420 --> 06:34:53,770
have been out here for hours and hours. There's been lots of

5683
06:34:53,770 --> 06:34:57,708
work put into it. I, I don't need any more information. I'm

5684
06:34:57,708 --> 06:35:00,377
ready. I'm prepared to make a decision tonight. I'm

5685
06:35:00,377 --> 06:35:02,979
understanding that there's risks to that decision, but I'm

5686
06:35:02,979 --> 06:35:08,379
willing to stand in and make that decision tonight.

5687
06:35:09,453 --> 06:35:10,454
I have. A question.

5688
06:35:10,454 --> 06:35:14,324
For the applicant. for either of the fuse, for the

5689
06:35:14,324 --> 06:35:17,324
landowners. I'm sorry, Mr. Wheeler.

5690
06:35:27,938 --> 06:35:30,340
Have you? You said you have not had any

5691
06:35:30,340 --> 06:35:34,277
conversations with any land conservation folks, that you

5692
06:35:34,277 --> 06:35:36,790
have not had any direct contact.

5693
06:35:36,790 --> 06:35:38,748
Not about this property? No. Okay.

5694
06:35:38,748 --> 06:35:41,840
What was the question? No contact with any

5695
06:35:41,840 --> 06:35:44,688
conservation group? Absolutely not. I can tell you

5696
06:35:44,688 --> 06:35:48,825
that. I have been looking after Kendrick Estates for 30 years.

5697
06:35:48,825 --> 06:35:52,562
My name is on the Secretary of State's office. As a registered

5698
06:35:52,562 --> 06:35:56,833
agent. I'm on the tax rolls and I've had no contact with

5699
06:35:56,833 --> 06:35:59,635
anybody who's shown any interest in buying this

5700
06:35:59,635 --> 06:36:04,441
property. Is parkland or anything similar. So to say

5701
06:36:04,441 --> 06:36:08,711
that that's a I think that was a disingenuous.

5702
06:36:08,711 --> 06:36:10,711
Comment. And.

5703
06:36:14,117 --> 06:36:17,521
Apparently. Sir, we don't we don't do that

5704
06:36:17,521 --> 06:36:20,323
here. We don't shout at us from the audience. I'm sorry.

5705
06:36:20,323 --> 06:36:23,593
And I'd be happy to share in private with you all the market

5706
06:36:23,593 --> 06:36:27,998
value of this site. It's a it's a very expensive piece of

5707
06:36:27,998 --> 06:36:32,201
property. We have 21 shareholders. Some of them are

5708
06:36:32,201 --> 06:36:36,540
minors. They're in five different states, and we don't

5709
06:36:36,540 --> 06:36:40,143
have the authority to give away any part or parcel of this

5710
06:36:40,143 --> 06:36:45,810
property. That's simply not in the cards. It's not available

5711
06:36:45,810 --> 06:36:48,952
to us. So can you say the last part

5712
06:36:48,952 --> 06:36:51,210
again? I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

5713
06:36:51,210 --> 06:36:53,890
After the 21 shareholders, can you say what you said again,

5714
06:36:53,890 --> 06:36:57,360
please? Randy, did you pick up on that?

5715
06:36:57,360 --> 06:37:02,760
I think yeah. Santos. It's it's, you know, family

5716
06:37:02,833 --> 06:37:05,833
businesses are hard, particularly multigenerational

5717
06:37:05,902 --> 06:37:07,971
ones. And yet to get all 21

5718
06:37:07,971 --> 06:37:09,906
shareholders to agree to a thing I got you.

5719
06:37:09,906 --> 06:37:11,975
Yeah. It's. Thank you. That's all. Thank

5720
06:37:11,975 --> 06:37:17,375
you I appreciate it. Yeah. All right. Good morning.

5721
06:37:20,717 --> 06:37:24,788
Afternoon. Evening night. So thank you all for, you know,

5722
06:37:24,788 --> 06:37:28,191
being with us or just expressing your concerns

5723
06:37:28,191 --> 06:37:31,128
regarding development. I know some folks say that, you know,

5724
06:37:31,128 --> 06:37:32,996
we'll be here as long as it takes, but some of us do have

5725
06:37:32,996 --> 06:37:35,465
different responsibilities. And there's a single income. You

5726
06:37:35,465 --> 06:37:37,734
have to go to work in the morning. So look forward to

5727
06:37:37,734 --> 06:37:42,472
that. Exhaustion. I'm not in favor of continuing this for

5728
06:37:42,472 --> 06:37:46,342
the fact that we've heard from residents concerns. And so I

5729
06:37:46,342 --> 06:37:49,279
think that I have sufficient information to make my decision

5730
06:37:49,279 --> 06:37:51,881
and be confident in that decision making at this point.

5731
06:37:51,881 --> 06:37:56,419
And I'm solidly at a no. As I have arrived at no. For other

5732
06:37:56,419 --> 06:37:59,289
developments along the same area of town in Durham. I

5733
06:37:59,289 --> 06:38:01,958
remember some of your faces from last time, so I won't

5734
06:38:01,958 --> 06:38:05,428
belabor the situation. I think that while I do appreciate some

5735
06:38:05,428 --> 06:38:08,164
of the efforts, I have not been convinced by what's been

5736
06:38:08,164 --> 06:38:12,350
proposed this evening to to change my vote to the

5737
06:38:12,350 --> 06:38:16,835
affirmative. Thank you all for for making it

5738
06:38:25,315 --> 06:38:28,251
this long. Thank you to staff and to folks who have come and

5739
06:38:28,251 --> 06:38:33,590
spoken and and to the applicant team as well. I do believe in

5740
06:38:33,590 --> 06:38:38,728
the, the the motivation of the the landowner. Randy, I

5741
06:38:38,728 --> 06:38:40,930
remember meeting with you back when I was on the Planning

5742
06:38:40,930 --> 06:38:44,867
Commission many years ago about this, this very property. So I

5743
06:38:44,867 --> 06:38:48,671
know it's been it's been in, you know, something that you've

5744
06:38:48,671 --> 06:38:52,675
been taking a look at for a long time. You know, there's a

5745
06:38:52,675 --> 06:38:56,546
lot of persuasive comments that I've heard on both sides. But

5746
06:38:56,546 --> 06:39:00,483
ultimately we are here to review this against the

5747
06:39:00,483 --> 06:39:04,888
comprehensive plan and do our very best to make the best

5748
06:39:04,888 --> 06:39:10,827
possible decision for what is a very large and consequential

5749
06:39:10,827 --> 06:39:18,627
site here at 1:39 a.m. and so you all have heard my position

5750
06:39:21,371 --> 06:39:27,371
earlier. This or yesterday. Earlier this evening, I am not

5751
06:39:27,777 --> 06:39:32,577
I'm not leaning towards supporting any any further

5752
06:39:33,249 --> 06:39:39,849
large scale. Lose my my train of thought here this evening.

5753
06:39:40,723 --> 06:39:46,596
Growth, outward growth at this kind of scale. It's something

5754
06:39:46,596 --> 06:39:50,934
that I've been deeply concerned about for a very long time. You

5755
06:39:50,934 --> 06:39:58,134
know, short of a very, very impressive master plan. I do to

5756
06:40:01,811 --> 06:40:04,547
the to the landscape architect. I do think the, the layout here

5757
06:40:04,547 --> 06:40:10,353
is, is, is is not bad. I also want to say I do want to point

5758
06:40:10,353 --> 06:40:16,953
out the the commitments here are spoken by the by the

5759
06:40:17,960 --> 06:40:21,497
applicant. Unprecedented. And I do I do think that they are

5760
06:40:21,497 --> 06:40:25,368
they are impressive. But ultimately we do need to weigh

5761
06:40:25,368 --> 06:40:28,772
the positives and the negatives and make the very best decision

5762
06:40:28,772 --> 06:40:34,110
here and mine currently is is a no Council Member Rist. I don't

5763
06:40:34,110 --> 06:40:39,982
know what kind of questions you would be seeking clarity on. I

5764
06:40:39,982 --> 06:40:45,188
currently lean toward just simply voting no, but of

5765
06:40:45,188 --> 06:40:48,725
course, you know, if if you know majority for council

5766
06:40:48,725 --> 06:40:53,396
members wanted needed more time to to ask questions or

5767
06:40:53,396 --> 06:40:57,467
whatever. You know, obviously you have you have the right to

5768
06:40:57,467 --> 06:41:02,471
do that. So that's that's where I'm at at this point. I think

5769
06:41:02,471 --> 06:41:07,823
that is the there are a lot of unknowns. And so at this point,

5770
06:41:07,823 --> 06:41:13,223
I am leaning toward a solid, no, thank you.

5771
06:41:15,764 --> 06:41:22,364
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The applicant has made a lot of

5772
06:41:23,638 --> 06:41:29,638
ambitious commitments on this. I feel like this case has

5773
06:41:31,450 --> 06:41:34,645
changed substantially since Planning Commission, and

5774
06:41:38,186 --> 06:41:41,923
sometimes that allows me to be able to make a decision. But I

5775
06:41:41,923 --> 06:41:45,460
feel like there are still unanswered questions that more

5776
06:41:45,460 --> 06:41:49,730
time would benefit from. It would give us time to evaluate

5777
06:41:49,730 --> 06:41:53,268
how we can integrate some of the Oeb recommendations, think

5778
06:41:53,268 --> 06:41:57,806
about other adjustments to the utility extension agreement to

5779
06:41:57,806 --> 06:42:00,876
make sure that we would get the outcome that is being proposed,

5780
06:42:00,876 --> 06:42:03,478
and have it as a promise, and see what else can be baked into

5781
06:42:03,478 --> 06:42:11,278
that. UEA. May it be time to see if there's actually a legit

5782
06:42:13,880 --> 06:42:15,824
buyer. I spoke with the TCC about this. I think that

5783
06:42:15,824 --> 06:42:19,561
there's a desire to see that, but as I've heard, there's been

5784
06:42:19,561 --> 06:42:25,330
no real conversation. Perhaps this is then that time, right?

5785
06:42:25,330 --> 06:42:28,370
Rubber to the road to see if there is that opportunity. I

5786
06:42:28,370 --> 06:42:30,238
think the TCC, they communicated to me that they

5787
06:42:30,238 --> 06:42:32,440
are concerned about the potential for this site just

5788
06:42:32,440 --> 06:42:35,643
being logged. But from a value standpoint, it's hard for

5789
06:42:35,643 --> 06:42:38,580
anyone to advocate for something that feels like not

5790
06:42:38,580 --> 06:42:40,849
fully aligned with what you believe in and want to see in

5791
06:42:40,849 --> 06:42:44,585
your neighborhood, but with it being Earth Day and Earth

5792
06:42:44,585 --> 06:42:47,388
Month, I don't want to end up with a much worse environmental

5793
06:42:47,388 --> 06:42:52,188
outcome because there's enough consternation about the option

5794
06:42:52,260 --> 06:42:55,730
in front of us. And so if there is more time to explore that

5795
06:42:55,730 --> 06:42:59,935
and these other options, I think that that is worth it for

5796
06:42:59,935 --> 06:43:06,535
a really consequential case. And so with that, you know, I

5797
06:43:08,276 --> 06:43:12,213
would be interested in having the support of, you know, our,

5798
06:43:12,213 --> 06:43:14,682
our, you know, our volunteer advisors and planning

5799
06:43:14,682 --> 06:43:19,482
commission to see this completely different case. I've

5800
06:43:19,888 --> 06:43:23,557
spoken with half the planning commissioners. I think that,

5801
06:43:23,557 --> 06:43:26,361
you know, from what was holding many of them up, I think some

5802
06:43:26,361 --> 06:43:29,698
of that has been addressed. But I think that there is a lot

5803
06:43:29,698 --> 06:43:33,234
that else that is outstanding, that makes me unable to vote

5804
06:43:33,234 --> 06:43:37,638
for this, but makes me concerned enough about the

5805
06:43:37,638 --> 06:43:41,376
consequences of voting now. And so sometimes it's worth doing

5806
06:43:41,376 --> 06:43:46,514
continuances to try and get it right instead of rushing ahead.

5807
06:43:46,514 --> 06:43:51,719
And so I would be supportive of that motion to explore some of

5808
06:43:51,719 --> 06:43:56,519
these open questions. Colleagues, you know, I'm not

5809
06:43:58,593 --> 06:44:01,129
I, I'm I'm not doing my best thinking. And I think none of

5810
06:44:01,129 --> 06:44:04,999
us are. It's 144 in the morning. My suggestion is that

5811
06:44:04,999 --> 06:44:09,470
we figure out a continuance if the applicant is available. I

5812
06:44:09,470 --> 06:44:11,940
actually want to I do want to say this because I remember

5813
06:44:11,940 --> 06:44:15,476
when Mr. Few came to us, I was on the council when we made the

5814
06:44:15,476 --> 06:44:18,480
decision to not do urban growth boundary versus future growth

5815
06:44:18,480 --> 06:44:21,616
boundary. And part of it was because there's a pretty large

5816
06:44:21,616 --> 06:44:25,420
black family that had been on their land, quite frankly,

5817
06:44:25,420 --> 06:44:30,625
longer than anyone in this room. And they have been denied

5818
06:44:30,625 --> 06:44:33,561
sewer and water. And so they were part of the team, the

5819
06:44:33,561 --> 06:44:35,897
neighbors who said, please, please, please don't put us in

5820
06:44:35,897 --> 06:44:38,900
the urban. It wasn't just a fuse. There were other folks

5821
06:44:38,900 --> 06:44:41,369
who were like, please don't put us in the urban, you know,

5822
06:44:41,369 --> 06:44:44,390
outside the urban growth boundary. We are never going to

5823
06:44:44,390 --> 06:44:47,776
get sewer if you do that. And I know that that family is not

5824
06:44:47,776 --> 06:44:51,312
here this evening. I know they had to leave, and I'm part of

5825
06:44:51,312 --> 06:44:53,314
the reason I don't want to say anything. I don't want to. It

5826
06:44:53,314 --> 06:44:56,184
is very upsetting to me when I see older, affluent white

5827
06:44:56,184 --> 06:44:59,788
people deny housing to other folks. I will never forget

5828
06:44:59,788 --> 06:45:02,590
Mayor Shull and the amount of respect that I have for that

5829
06:45:02,590 --> 06:45:07,128
man, because early in my tenure on council, he was a huge

5830
06:45:07,128 --> 06:45:11,332
proponent of housing and he was a huge environmentalist. And no

5831
06:45:11,332 --> 06:45:15,937
one can ever challenge his credibility on either. And a

5832
06:45:15,937 --> 06:45:19,607
good friend of his, a man he'd been friends with for 40 years,

5833
06:45:19,607 --> 06:45:25,279
came in and was an opponent on a case. And I remember Mayor

5834
06:45:25,279 --> 06:45:28,683
Shull very matter of factly, in a kind way, just said, I don't

5835
06:45:28,683 --> 06:45:31,850
believe in pulling up the ladder behind me. And then he

5836
06:45:31,850 --> 06:45:33,870
said, and I hope I see you for lunch on Friday like we're

5837
06:45:33,870 --> 06:45:34,889
supposed to have lunch. And that was the end of that

5838
06:45:34,889 --> 06:45:38,893
conversation. And I remember, I think I'd been on council maybe

5839
06:45:38,893 --> 06:45:41,830
six months to a year, and I remember what an impact it made

5840
06:45:41,830 --> 06:45:46,501
on me. And that is how I've guided many of my decisions, is

5841
06:45:46,501 --> 06:45:52,374
thinking through who I have. I own a house. I think most of

5842
06:45:52,374 --> 06:45:54,642
the folks in this room own a house. I think most of the

5843
06:45:54,642 --> 06:45:56,845
people on this council own a house. I know a few folks are

5844
06:45:56,845 --> 06:46:01,783
still renters and and that is what I think about it is

5845
06:46:01,783 --> 06:46:04,652
environmental, but it is about housing. And so I don't want to

5846
06:46:04,652 --> 06:46:08,560
continue down this path. I think maybe buying us some more

5847
06:46:08,560 --> 06:46:10,858
time, getting some questions answered. There have been other

5848
06:46:10,858 --> 06:46:13,394
cases where you've done a continuance and it has resolved

5849
06:46:13,394 --> 06:46:15,663
itself in a more positive way. So that's where I'm at.

5850
06:46:15,663 --> 06:46:19,263
Colleagues. I thank you, colleagues. Is

5851
06:46:22,871 --> 06:46:25,940
there any other. Yeah. Go ahead. Council Member Cook.

5852
06:46:25,940 --> 06:46:28,209
Well, one of the main things that Council Member Kopac said

5853
06:46:28,209 --> 06:46:29,877
that he was interested in was getting the planning

5854
06:46:29,877 --> 06:46:32,480
commission's take on this new case. So if I think if we are

5855
06:46:32,480 --> 06:46:36,550
going to truly do the continuance, that adds to the

5856
06:46:36,550 --> 06:46:39,153
value to what folks have said, then we need to send it back to

5857
06:46:39,153 --> 06:46:42,153
planning Commission. A little hard.

5858
06:46:42,423 --> 06:46:45,493
To hear you. I don't. These mics are wild. I

5859
06:46:45,493 --> 06:46:49,430
can't hear y'all either. So okay, what I said is that one

5860
06:46:49,430 --> 06:46:51,366
of the things that you mentioned wanting to learn was

5861
06:46:51,366 --> 06:46:53,435
how what this new case would look like in front of the

5862
06:46:53,435 --> 06:46:56,905
Planning Commission. And so in order in my mind, in order to

5863
06:46:56,905 --> 06:46:59,240
make a continuance worthwhile, it would actually be to send

5864
06:46:59,240 --> 06:47:01,108
something back to the Planning Commission. And I see Aaron

5865
06:47:01,108 --> 06:47:04,245
Kane has already raised his finger at me, but that is that

5866
06:47:04,245 --> 06:47:08,650
is my. Yeah. Go ahead. Sure. So just something to be

5867
06:47:08,650 --> 06:47:11,319
aware of is that Planning Commission does not have a

5868
06:47:11,319 --> 06:47:16,100
purview to review annexations per se. All they have to review

5869
06:47:16,100 --> 06:47:19,872
is the zoning. And they do not review annexations. They do not

5870
06:47:19,872 --> 06:47:24,672
review utility extension agreements. So from a planning

5871
06:47:24,876 --> 06:47:28,347
commissioner's perspective, nothing has changed. This is

5872
06:47:28,347 --> 06:47:32,547
still a direct translation. Annexation to rural

5873
06:47:33,418 --> 06:47:37,180
residential, rural residential. Rural. Residential. Not

5874
06:47:37,623 --> 06:47:40,492
reviewing the UEA, not reviewing whether or not it

5875
06:47:40,492 --> 06:47:42,761
should be annexed. So just something to keep in mind if

5876
06:47:42,761 --> 06:47:44,896
you're going to send it back to Planning Commission. To them,

5877
06:47:44,896 --> 06:47:47,899
it's going to look just like the case they saw.

5878
06:47:47,899 --> 06:47:50,350
Oh, that's a good. Call.

5879
06:47:50,350 --> 06:47:52,370
Council member does that change your.

5880
06:47:52,370 --> 06:47:55,440
I guess then the continuance is just with us and we can choose

5881
06:47:55,440 --> 06:47:59,640
to engage Planning Commission, Environmental Affairs board,

5882
06:48:00,446 --> 06:48:03,916
others and helping to evaluate it more informally. But I guess

5883
06:48:03,916 --> 06:48:08,116
then the continuance would just be us.

5884
06:48:11,560 --> 06:48:17,262
Can I say one more thing? Oh, sorry, I, I just want to say

5885
06:48:17,262 --> 06:48:20,132
one more thing, which is that I appreciate that comment. And I

5886
06:48:20,132 --> 06:48:24,803
think it's important that we are looking at things with an

5887
06:48:24,803 --> 06:48:32,603
eye towards race and equity, and also I spend I have to be

5888
06:48:33,412 --> 06:48:38,416
also at work in seven hours to court to help people stay

5889
06:48:38,416 --> 06:48:43,221
housed, which is what I do with my daytime job all the time and

5890
06:48:43,221 --> 06:48:47,292
what I don't want for folks is to be housed in places where

5891
06:48:47,292 --> 06:48:50,829
it's not sustainable for them. And we're hearing this, these

5892
06:48:50,829 --> 06:48:55,290
comments about this horrific traffic, the terrible

5893
06:48:55,166 --> 06:48:59,638
infrastructure that's not a sustainable place to live. So,

5894
06:48:59,638 --> 06:49:03,975
I mean, we can build houses, we can just build houses

5895
06:49:03,975 --> 06:49:06,844
everywhere, I guess. But it's like we have to build houses

5896
06:49:06,844 --> 06:49:09,180
that are meaningful and actually can house people and

5897
06:49:09,180 --> 06:49:12,717
are places that we think that folks deserve to live. It's

5898
06:49:12,717 --> 06:49:16,455
it's not enough to just build four walls and a roof. It has

5899
06:49:16,455 --> 06:49:20,258
to be a place where we also would feel comfortable living

5900
06:49:20,258 --> 06:49:23,995
and, and put the standards as if it were our own family. So I

5901
06:49:23,995 --> 06:49:27,532
understand both sides of that, but I just want to I wanted to

5902
06:49:27,532 --> 06:49:32,471
to state that, which is I think we're all worried about housing.

5903
06:49:32,471 --> 06:49:37,675
And also we can think critically about growth. With

5904
06:49:37,675 --> 06:49:42,747
that concern in mind.. And just since we're going down

5905
06:49:42,747 --> 06:49:46,617
memory lane at two in the morning, I do recall a case

5906
06:49:46,617 --> 06:49:50,354
where it was around a light rail maintenance facility at

5907
06:49:50,354 --> 06:49:54,826
the fencing where we did, I think, go the transit authority

5908
06:49:54,826 --> 06:50:00,310
did condemn a black family's land, and they also condemned

5909
06:50:00,310 --> 06:50:03,234
it. And then they also offered a lease back to them. So if

5910
06:50:03,234 --> 06:50:05,103
we're going to just want to make sure that we're just

5911
06:50:05,103 --> 06:50:07,305
weighing all the sides of the coin. Now, if we talk about

5912
06:50:07,305 --> 06:50:09,841
like, you know, we're talking about the past, that we have

5913
06:50:09,841 --> 06:50:11,442
had some moments where we may not have made the best

5914
06:50:11,442 --> 06:50:14,980
decision. So I just want to gain clarity on from this point

5915
06:50:14,980 --> 06:50:18,490
forward, though. So are we just simply my colleagues asking us

5916
06:50:18,490 --> 06:50:21,719
to send this? I mean, continue this while you all conduct

5917
06:50:21,719 --> 06:50:25,457
yourself study to feel more confident in your answer or

5918
06:50:25,457 --> 06:50:28,460
just like and then ideally like what? What's the timeline for

5919
06:50:28,460 --> 06:50:32,660
that? I mean, I'm the one proposed

5920
06:50:33,650 --> 06:50:36,468
that, you know, to me like three months, 90 days to answer

5921
06:50:36,468 --> 06:50:39,137
some of these questions. Right? Is there a potential like as

5922
06:50:39,137 --> 06:50:41,273
Council Member Kopac said, rubber hits the road. Is there

5923
06:50:41,273 --> 06:50:44,276
a potential buyer for this? I think I think conserving this

5924
06:50:44,276 --> 06:50:48,947
land long term, some kind of folks who want to buy for

5925
06:50:48,947 --> 06:50:51,482
conservation purposes would be a great option, but I think we

5926
06:50:51,482 --> 06:50:53,819
have to be like, there's there's questions that have

5927
06:50:53,819 --> 06:50:55,554
there been conversations, whether or not that the owners

5928
06:50:55,554 --> 06:50:58,356
have saying there's not conversation. So I think giving

5929
06:50:58,356 --> 06:51:01,960
time for that conversation to like, you know, what part of

5930
06:51:01,960 --> 06:51:03,895
yeah, yeah. Let me ask you a question. Can

5931
06:51:03,895 --> 06:51:09,500
I councillor. So what is what is the value of the land? Do

5932
06:51:09,500 --> 06:51:12,504
you all know that. The my liberty.

5933
06:51:12,504 --> 06:51:15,400
To share. That the the lands under

5934
06:51:15,400 --> 06:51:19,511
contract for $40 million and we have not had a an offer from

5935
06:51:19,511 --> 06:51:23,315
any groups, not just a serious offer or were in discussions.

5936
06:51:23,315 --> 06:51:26,918
There hasn't been an offer for that land. So to continue it

5937
06:51:26,918 --> 06:51:29,654
for a discussion that frankly could have been had during the

5938
06:51:29,654 --> 06:51:33,658
last three years that this case is pending, I think, is if

5939
06:51:33,658 --> 06:51:35,260
there's groups that are out there that are waiting in the

5940
06:51:35,260 --> 06:51:38,463
wings, I question why they haven't approached the owners

5941
06:51:38,463 --> 06:51:42,333
directly on that. I think the other thing to note, and this

5942
06:51:42,333 --> 06:51:44,803
might have been my mistake, is that the Tia has been

5943
06:51:44,803 --> 06:51:46,538
submitted. It was submitted in connection with the

5944
06:51:46,538 --> 06:51:49,874
conservation subdivision. So that has been reviewed by both

5945
06:51:49,874 --> 06:51:52,944
the city staff and Ddot, and they've concurred with the

5946
06:51:52,944 --> 06:51:56,882
findings. So of course that goes through the the process

5947
06:51:56,882 --> 06:51:59,217
for the conservation subdivision. But it was

5948
06:51:59,217 --> 06:52:02,220
submitted. And that's how I'm able to say we're committing to

5949
06:52:02,220 --> 06:52:05,690
these things because we already have an email back from both

5950
06:52:05,690 --> 06:52:09,560
city staff and from Dot that that they agree with. What

5951
06:52:09,560 --> 06:52:12,697
we've shown is improvements. And then Council Member Kopac

5952
06:52:12,697 --> 06:52:15,300
to your question on the conservation subdivision, we're

5953
06:52:15,300 --> 06:52:19,304
willing to offer a proffer that that that be part of the UEA.

5954
06:52:19,304 --> 06:52:22,240
We had discussions with planning and the city

5955
06:52:22,240 --> 06:52:24,709
Attorney's office about what things would go in the in the

5956
06:52:24,709 --> 06:52:27,646
UK and what wouldn't. But that's how we arrived at doing

5957
06:52:27,646 --> 06:52:30,916
the open space covenants to not only say we're recording these

5958
06:52:30,916 --> 06:52:34,185
binding covenants on the land, to say that it will be

5959
06:52:34,185 --> 06:52:37,189
submitted as a conservation subdivision, but it will also

5960
06:52:37,189 --> 06:52:40,992
be reflecting the open space that's shown in that

5961
06:52:40,992 --> 06:52:43,195
conservation subdivision. That exhibit B I showed on the

5962
06:52:43,195 --> 06:52:46,130
screen was the actual open space exhibit from the

5963
06:52:46,130 --> 06:52:50,469
conservation subdivision. So we're already bound under the

5964
06:52:50,469 --> 06:52:53,604
the open space covenants that will become effective if this

5965
06:52:53,604 --> 06:52:57,609
land is annexed. But we're also willing to say that can be a

5966
06:52:57,609 --> 06:53:01,790
condition of the UEA that this would proceed as a conservation

5967
06:53:01,790 --> 06:53:03,815
subdivision if that would make the council comfortable in

5968
06:53:03,815 --> 06:53:07,285
taking action tonight. We don't have time under our contract to

5969
06:53:07,285 --> 06:53:11,890
to wait for three months, and I think the questions, they're

5970
06:53:11,890 --> 06:53:15,226
tough, but I do think that they've been answered and we

5971
06:53:15,226 --> 06:53:18,630
would like to proceed tonight and and hope that you can find

5972
06:53:18,630 --> 06:53:22,100
it more beneficial than not to approve this case and move

5973
06:53:22,100 --> 06:53:26,300
forward. Well, I have a question. What

5974
06:53:26,715 --> 06:53:31,515
what's different about this property than the other

5975
06:53:33,188 --> 06:53:38,588
properties adjacent before housing was on them? I don't

5976
06:53:39,594 --> 06:53:44,660
know if that's a staff question or like but before there was

5977
06:53:44,660 --> 06:53:48,670
development out here. What what what the land that was

5978
06:53:48,670 --> 06:53:52,740
developed on where there are communities and subdivisions on

5979
06:53:52,740 --> 06:53:57,212
now, how did that land differentiate from what's being

5980
06:53:57,212 --> 06:54:01,416
proposed here? Do we know that. I cannot speak to that, though

5981
06:54:01,416 --> 06:54:06,200
those the existing developments that are out there now very

5982
06:54:06,200 --> 06:54:10,425
much precede my time with the city? I can't really give you

5983
06:54:10,425 --> 06:54:13,895
an answer as to what the decision making process was.

5984
06:54:13,895 --> 06:54:19,634
Then, when those were approved. Yeah, I I'm just thinking about

5985
06:54:19,634 --> 06:54:26,975
the all of the. I mean, I, I still used to live over there,

5986
06:54:26,975 --> 06:54:30,578
you know, and and I'm looking at what is happening over

5987
06:54:30,578 --> 06:54:35,449
there. I and to be honest with you know, your colleagues I, I

5988
06:54:35,449 --> 06:54:40,588
do want to make a decision tonight if there is more

5989
06:54:40,588 --> 06:54:43,925
information that needs to be, you know, retrieved. I'm

5990
06:54:43,925 --> 06:54:47,729
amenable to that. But I think, you know, when I do look at the

5991
06:54:47,729 --> 06:54:52,333
complexities of this case, I think the positive outweigh the

5992
06:54:52,333 --> 06:54:58,933
negative on it. And and that's just me weighing the options

5993
06:55:00,541 --> 06:55:06,147
here. So I won't I won't belabor editor. And I don't you

5994
06:55:06,147 --> 06:55:09,550
know, I won't believe it I, I whatever you guys want to do

5995
06:55:09,550 --> 06:55:11,819
I'm amenable to it. I'm prepared to make a decision

5996
06:55:11,819 --> 06:55:17,219
tonight as well. Yeah. And I would want the

5997
06:55:17,292 --> 06:55:21,228
opportunity to review the UEA with the committed language to

5998
06:55:21,228 --> 06:55:24,766
understand whether it reflects the protections that have been

5999
06:55:24,766 --> 06:55:30,104
asked since. I think that still remains an open question. And

6000
06:55:30,104 --> 06:55:33,241
so, I don't know. That's harder for me. I mean, I can't do that

6001
06:55:33,241 --> 06:55:34,709
this evening. So I don't know if there's a shorter

6002
06:55:34,709 --> 06:55:39,509
continuance period than 90 days. It would be acceptable.

6003
06:55:39,514 --> 06:55:41,916
And for me, I don't think since the, you know, the court case,

6004
06:55:41,916 --> 06:55:44,252
I don't think we've done a conservation subdivision at the

6005
06:55:44,252 --> 06:55:47,188
city level. Right. So we've got so is the planning director

6006
06:55:47,188 --> 06:55:49,858
said this is no longer a regulatory language. It's sort

6007
06:55:49,858 --> 06:55:55,330
of like a suggested language. So it's not clear to me with

6008
06:55:55,330 --> 06:55:57,732
the concept, with the with the, with the proffer to do one.

6009
06:55:57,732 --> 06:56:01,202
What exactly that what are we actually what can we count on

6010
06:56:01,202 --> 06:56:03,338
as a city. So that's why I have questions about that. I'd love

6011
06:56:03,338 --> 06:56:08,738
to see answered. I try my best to answer.

6012
06:56:10,545 --> 06:56:13,147
Commissioner kopecks question or Council Member Kopac

6013
06:56:13,147 --> 06:56:15,950
question. I'm still getting still, still used to be you

6014
06:56:15,950 --> 06:56:20,955
being on planning commission. So if the council chooses, what

6015
06:56:20,955 --> 06:56:26,961
you could do is if you were to approve the annexation. And

6016
06:56:26,961 --> 06:56:29,898
City Attorney Raber. Yeah, I see you're looking okay. I

6017
06:56:29,898 --> 06:56:32,834
believe what you could do is you could, if you were to vote

6018
06:56:32,834 --> 06:56:38,440
to approve the annexation, you could delay the UEA. And that

6019
06:56:38,440 --> 06:56:42,376
could come back to you at a later time with that language.

6020
06:56:42,376 --> 06:56:46,647
And then that could be on consent. And then you could

6021
06:56:46,647 --> 06:56:49,917
approve the UEA at a, at a later time. That might be a

6022
06:56:49,917 --> 06:56:52,787
possibility to address a. Few leverages.

6023
06:56:52,787 --> 06:56:57,459
Question. Well, let me go here and then

6024
06:56:57,459 --> 06:56:59,460
go ahead. I just wanted to clarify for

6025
06:56:59,460 --> 06:57:03,630
the attorney in this case, and I'm also the applicant, I feel

6026
06:57:03,630 --> 06:57:06,267
as though you've stated that you do not desire to have a

6027
06:57:06,267 --> 06:57:09,804
continuance. Is that what's been stated, and that you want

6028
06:57:09,804 --> 06:57:12,273
may not want like you may not have the time. I just want to

6029
06:57:12,273 --> 06:57:15,210
make sure like we're that we're aligning like what you've

6030
06:57:15,210 --> 06:57:18,120
expressed and that we're not overlooking like what's been

6031
06:57:18,120 --> 06:57:22,830
articulated tonight. Yes. Thank you for asking. We

6032
06:57:22,830 --> 06:57:24,552
always do our best to make these decisions easy and not to

6033
06:57:24,552 --> 06:57:27,210
put you all in a difficult position. We've done our best

6034
06:57:27,210 --> 06:57:30,691
to do that tonight. If we had more time, I'd I'd be willing

6035
06:57:30,691 --> 06:57:36,764
to do it. But we don't. And so we we have had cases where we

6036
06:57:36,764 --> 06:57:40,368
make a commitment to the UEA to follow the conservation

6037
06:57:40,368 --> 06:57:44,105
subdivision, which does have that restriction of the 50%

6038
06:57:44,105 --> 06:57:47,975
open space in your Udo, that's required. That's not something

6039
06:57:47,975 --> 06:57:50,712
that would be a wishy washy intent. It's absolutely

6040
06:57:50,712 --> 06:57:53,515
required. And again, the covenants show where that open

6041
06:57:53,515 --> 06:57:56,584
space would be. So we can make that verbal commitment. We can

6042
06:57:56,584 --> 06:57:58,987
add that language and that can come back for the city

6043
06:57:58,987 --> 06:58:01,790
attorney's review. If you can act upon it tonight. And

6044
06:58:01,790 --> 06:58:04,659
subject to the the review of that language. But it would be

6045
06:58:04,659 --> 06:58:08,463
a commitment to filing the conservation subdivision and

6046
06:58:08,463 --> 06:58:11,866
that the UEA would be tied to a conservation subdivision going

6047
06:58:11,866 --> 06:58:14,669
forward. So we would have to proceed with the conservation

6048
06:58:14,669 --> 06:58:17,739
subdivision and only a conservation subdivision under

6049
06:58:17,739 --> 06:58:21,142
the under the rules, which do have a tremendous amount of

6050
06:58:21,142 --> 06:58:24,813
restrictions on how it's managed, who manages the open

6051
06:58:24,813 --> 06:58:29,160
space, how it's maintained, all sorts of restrictions about

6052
06:58:29,160 --> 06:58:32,553
what's to be included and what's not. And so I don't want

6053
06:58:32,553 --> 06:58:34,488
to make it. I don't want to make light of the court case,

6054
06:58:34,488 --> 06:58:36,358
but I don't want to pretend that there's nothing in your

6055
06:58:36,358 --> 06:58:39,160
Udo about the conservation subdivision, because there's 3

6056
06:58:39,160 --> 06:58:42,230
to 4 pages of requirements and regulations that we would have

6057
06:58:42,230 --> 06:58:45,166
to follow, and we're willing to make that verbal commitment to

6058
06:58:45,166 --> 06:58:47,502
work with the city attorney on the language of exactly how

6059
06:58:47,502 --> 06:58:50,305
that would look in the UEA, and be able to move forward tonight

6060
06:58:50,305 --> 06:58:55,110
to to give you that certainty. I mean, I appreciate that. I

6061
06:58:55,110 --> 06:59:00,381
think the struggle is 1:02 a.m. and also, you know, through,

6062
06:59:00,381 --> 06:59:02,450
you know, a couple of years I'm planning commission and time on

6063
06:59:02,450 --> 06:59:05,386
council. I haven't seen a case on conservation subdivision,

6064
06:59:05,386 --> 06:59:08,389
and I've never seen an attempt to do a translational zoning in

6065
06:59:08,389 --> 06:59:10,858
connection with the utilities extension agreement and

6066
06:59:10,858 --> 06:59:13,862
annexation. And so, you know, like I, I appreciate the

6067
06:59:13,862 --> 06:59:16,640
suggestions that like, these are things that can just be

6068
06:59:16,640 --> 06:59:18,400
made to work. But, you know, given what we're trying to

6069
06:59:18,400 --> 06:59:20,468
accomplish here with the complexity is just difficult

6070
06:59:20,468 --> 06:59:22,737
for me to have as much confidence signing up for that.

6071
06:59:22,737 --> 06:59:25,540
And so I'd feel more comfortable at the next council

6072
06:59:25,540 --> 06:59:28,276
meeting having this discussion. But if you don't want a

6073
06:59:28,276 --> 06:59:30,811
continuance and you don't want a continuance. So I understand

6074
06:59:30,811 --> 06:59:33,211
that. Yeah. Go ahead.

6075
06:59:41,364 --> 06:59:46,360
So, Mr. Cain, Mr.. Henry, so what you propose one one

6076
06:59:46,360 --> 06:59:51,841
possibility would be to approve the annexation, but to but to

6077
06:59:51,841 --> 06:59:56,712
leave the UEA to a like at some later point.

6078
06:59:56,712 --> 07:00:01,500
I think there are a couple of ways to address the concern.

6079
07:00:01,500 --> 07:00:03,653
Council Member Kopac brought up about wanting to see the

6080
07:00:03,653 --> 07:00:10,253
language. I mean, you have in the past approved zoning cases

6081
07:00:12,600 --> 07:00:15,397
where a proffer has been made with an understanding that

6082
07:00:15,397 --> 07:00:18,801
staff is going to work out the exact language later with the

6083
07:00:18,801 --> 07:00:22,338
applicant, we could go that direction with this additional

6084
07:00:22,338 --> 07:00:25,608
proffer that the applicant is made on the UEA, and staff is

6085
07:00:25,608 --> 07:00:27,877
perfectly comfortable doing that, and it would involve

6086
07:00:27,877 --> 07:00:31,280
staff from the city Attorney's office as well. We could do

6087
07:00:31,280 --> 07:00:34,951
that. The other option I had kind of just thrown out there

6088
07:00:34,951 --> 07:00:38,888
was you could vote on the annexation and if you approve

6089
07:00:38,888 --> 07:00:44,260
it, wait to bring the UEA back to you with that language on

6090
07:00:44,260 --> 07:00:48,297
consent. If you feel more comfortable wanting to see the

6091
07:00:48,297 --> 07:00:50,900
actual language that's laid out, I don't think it's going

6092
07:00:50,900 --> 07:00:53,903
to be that difficult. It's basically going to just say

6093
07:00:53,903 --> 07:00:58,241
this UEA is only is contingent upon it being a conservation

6094
07:00:58,241 --> 07:01:02,244
subdivision. Anything else that you, the UEA is invalid. Or

6095
07:01:02,244 --> 07:01:05,714
again, city attorney will come up with much better language

6096
07:01:05,714 --> 07:01:07,850
than that. But basically that will be the gist of that. I

6097
07:01:07,850 --> 07:01:12,855
believe. So staff will be fine either way. Just wanted to

6098
07:01:12,855 --> 07:01:16,455
throw those those options out there.

6099
07:01:20,996 --> 07:01:23,999
So do we need to we need to modify the motion. Then if we

6100
07:01:23,999 --> 07:01:27,270
want that right we need it. Yeah we would need to shape the

6101
07:01:27,270 --> 07:01:32,141
motion for that. If that's the preference of us.

6102
07:01:32,141 --> 07:01:34,811
I wanted the city attorney can help us with some of that. So

6103
07:01:34,811 --> 07:01:39,611
what would that what might that look like?

6104
07:01:42,485 --> 07:01:46,850
Any idea on the language. Motion?

6105
07:01:47,156 --> 07:01:50,560
I mean, you could do something like.

6106
07:01:50,560 --> 07:01:52,960
In a moment. Nice.

6107
07:01:56,698 --> 07:01:59,568
I mean, I think it depends on which of the two options to

6108
07:01:59,568 --> 07:02:02,438
city council. Yeah. Can we get clarification?

6109
07:02:02,438 --> 07:02:07,238
Is there a preference on the options here?

6110
07:02:08,177 --> 07:02:11,714
So option one again one would be that we would we would

6111
07:02:11,714 --> 07:02:17,114
approve the annexation with a some contingency there. The

6112
07:02:17,119 --> 07:02:19,655
other one would be that we actually come back and vote on

6113
07:02:19,655 --> 07:02:23,659
the. So let's say option one is that

6114
07:02:23,659 --> 07:02:27,463
you vote on the annexation. If the annexation is approved,

6115
07:02:27,463 --> 07:02:33,670
you're going to hold off on voting on the UEA, and we will

6116
07:02:33,670 --> 07:02:35,938
bring that to you at a later date. And that would likely be

6117
07:02:35,938 --> 07:02:42,411
on consent. Option. The option two, let's say, is you go ahead

6118
07:02:42,411 --> 07:02:44,547
and just vote on everything like normal with an

6119
07:02:44,547 --> 07:02:47,750
understanding that a proffer has been made by the applicant

6120
07:02:47,750 --> 07:02:53,750
to add one additional contingency to the. To the UEA.

6121
07:02:54,757 --> 07:02:56,359
And you're going to go ahead and vote on that with the

6122
07:02:56,359 --> 07:02:58,828
understanding that that contingency will be in there

6123
07:02:58,828 --> 07:03:01,230
with final language to be worked out between planning and

6124
07:03:01,230 --> 07:03:03,700
development staff, the city attorney staff and the

6125
07:03:03,700 --> 07:03:08,237
applicant. Like I said, we do that somewhat regularly on

6126
07:03:08,237 --> 07:03:10,637
zoning proffers. Go ahead.

6127
07:03:13,376 --> 07:03:16,779
So, Mr. Mayor, if I'm sorry. My apologies.

6128
07:03:16,779 --> 07:03:18,180
Council. Member I just wanted to say

6129
07:03:18,180 --> 07:03:20,516
that. The Aaron is right.

6130
07:03:20,516 --> 07:03:23,318
We do. Often take direction from you

6131
07:03:23,318 --> 07:03:26,655
all in these meetings and follow up and make sure that

6132
07:03:26,655 --> 07:03:30,326
things get in that were verbalized and committed to one

6133
07:03:30,326 --> 07:03:33,396
additional kind of safeguard for the UEA is even if you were

6134
07:03:33,396 --> 07:03:37,199
to approve the UEA tonight, as part of this consolidated item.

6135
07:03:37,199 --> 07:03:40,403
Those UAS. Afterwards have to be executed

6136
07:03:40,403 --> 07:03:44,139
by the city. So they go into our contract. Q I review them

6137
07:03:44,139 --> 07:03:47,342
and then the city manager sees them. So there is an extra

6138
07:03:47,342 --> 07:03:50,746
additional set of eyes to verify that what is supposed to

6139
07:03:50,746 --> 07:03:57,346
be in there is in there. I'm comfortable with that. Go

6140
07:03:57,486 --> 07:04:00,486
ahead. So just for clarifying

6141
07:04:00,490 --> 07:04:03,559
questions. So we move forward. Then we basically like we're

6142
07:04:03,559 --> 07:04:07,290
just going to we we done the public hearing. And so if you

6143
07:04:07,290 --> 07:04:09,765
work these things out in the back end the public would not

6144
07:04:09,765 --> 07:04:12,501
have any opportunity to provide feedback on it. It would just

6145
07:04:12,501 --> 07:04:15,571
be trusting the will of council to make sure their issues are

6146
07:04:15,571 --> 07:04:18,571
addressed. So are you asking.

6147
07:04:21,711 --> 07:04:23,912
If you have for clarification on the options presented

6148
07:04:23,912 --> 07:04:28,317
tonight? Yeah, well, I would prefer just to vote for it.

6149
07:04:28,317 --> 07:04:30,530
There's a motion as it currently exists because that

6150
07:04:30,530 --> 07:04:33,255
feels like I don't want to take away the opera. It feels like

6151
07:04:33,255 --> 07:04:36,592
we're doing some more negotiating, but in a silo that

6152
07:04:36,592 --> 07:04:40,396
doesn't necessarily represent like what the community members

6153
07:04:40,396 --> 07:04:42,465
want. So I'm just trying to figure out, like, if we're

6154
07:04:42,465 --> 07:04:46,202
moving forward in a way that kind of cuts out the voices of

6155
07:04:46,202 --> 07:04:47,804
some people in the neighborhood.

6156
07:04:47,804 --> 07:04:50,339
I didn't get that same interpretation. Let's get more

6157
07:04:50,339 --> 07:04:53,750
clarity on that. Could you repeat what you said it.

6158
07:04:53,750 --> 07:04:56,612
Sure. So the only thing that I have heard tonight in terms of

6159
07:04:56,612 --> 07:04:59,148
like an additional commitment that could be baked into the

6160
07:04:59,148 --> 07:05:04,954
UEA, is basically making the UEA contingent or valid only if

6161
07:05:04,954 --> 07:05:07,623
it is a conservation subdivision. So it would be

6162
07:05:07,623 --> 07:05:12,494
like adding one phrase or sentence to the UEA to make

6163
07:05:12,494 --> 07:05:15,565
sure that that it is only applicable to a conservation

6164
07:05:15,565 --> 07:05:17,767
subdivision. If someone were to try to do a different

6165
07:05:17,767 --> 07:05:20,302
development, it would be void and they would have to come

6166
07:05:20,302 --> 07:05:23,172
back and get another UEA. That's the only thing that I

6167
07:05:23,172 --> 07:05:27,443
have heard that is actionable, that we could put in in terms

6168
07:05:27,443 --> 07:05:30,179
of like an additional commitment. And so what I was

6169
07:05:30,179 --> 07:05:33,248
suggesting is that we can do that just like we do. Like

6170
07:05:33,248 --> 07:05:36,510
Aaron said, we do that all the time when there are additional

6171
07:05:36,510 --> 07:05:39,989
proffers. You all don't see the final development plan or the

6172
07:05:39,989 --> 07:05:43,259
final ordinance. We get it cleaned up. We work with the

6173
07:05:43,259 --> 07:05:46,300
clerk and it gets stamped and signed, and we all verify that

6174
07:05:46,300 --> 07:05:49,673
it has what it's supposed to. So we make a decision tonight

6175
07:05:49,673 --> 07:05:54,410
and everything else is just a formality of it becoming the

6176
07:05:54,410 --> 07:05:59,416
language that is contracted. So I don't I don't see another

6177
07:05:59,416 --> 07:06:02,685
need for community engagement after that, since we're giving

6178
07:06:02,685 --> 07:06:05,354
everyone what we're we're making the decision tonight.

6179
07:06:05,354 --> 07:06:07,357
Everything else is administrative after that.

6180
07:06:07,357 --> 07:06:10,957
That's what my interpretation is. Yeah.

6181
07:06:13,960 --> 07:06:16,700
Go ahead. I mean, so I think I hear councilmembers question, I

6182
07:06:16,700 --> 07:06:19,636
would prefer what Mr. Kane laid out as the first option that

6183
07:06:19,636 --> 07:06:22,238
actually the, the actual the the utility extension agreement

6184
07:06:22,238 --> 07:06:28,178
actually does come back to the council for later vote. That'd

6185
07:06:28,178 --> 07:06:31,448
be my preference. And that is the additional

6186
07:06:31,448 --> 07:06:33,850
language that would be added in. Correct?

6187
07:06:33,850 --> 07:06:38,521
I think I think that's right. It would just be.

6188
07:06:38,521 --> 07:06:40,924
To the adoption. Is that if I am I correct that

6189
07:06:40,924 --> 07:06:46,663
was option one, that there the the UEA you UEA does come back

6190
07:06:46,663 --> 07:06:49,132
to the council. It may be on consent but it would come back

6191
07:06:49,132 --> 07:06:52,602
to us on an agenda. Correct. So the, the additional

6192
07:06:52,602 --> 07:06:55,806
language that would be in there would be the same in either

6193
07:06:55,806 --> 07:06:58,408
path we choose. Because again, the only thing that I have

6194
07:06:58,408 --> 07:07:01,478
heard is adding a commitment that stipulates that the UEA is

6195
07:07:01,478 --> 07:07:03,880
only valid if it's for a conservation subdivision. So

6196
07:07:03,880 --> 07:07:08,885
the question I think before you is, do you do you want to see

6197
07:07:08,885 --> 07:07:13,220
that explicitly and you could just omit the second part of

6198
07:07:13,220 --> 07:07:17,560
the motion. Don't say the to enter, you know, authorize the

6199
07:07:17,560 --> 07:07:20,163
city manager to enter into a utility extension agreement.

6200
07:07:20,163 --> 07:07:23,767
Leave that off of your motion and you could go that route.

6201
07:07:23,767 --> 07:07:26,169
You include it. Then staff will do what we normally do with

6202
07:07:26,169 --> 07:07:28,372
development plans, and we will make sure.

6203
07:07:28,372 --> 07:07:31,641
That that will be back on the agenda at a later date.

6204
07:07:31,641 --> 07:07:34,440
In the in the first yes scenario.

6205
07:07:34,440 --> 07:07:36,713
I am okay with that. If you all are okay with that.

6206
07:07:36,713 --> 07:07:41,318
Not asking for that is that still? You? No, no no, you

6207
07:07:41,318 --> 07:07:42,452
would. Be the we'd be voting.

6208
07:07:42,452 --> 07:07:46,923
You would just. Oh okay. So that would.

6209
07:07:46,923 --> 07:07:51,723
Come back okay. The. Councilor. Do you have

6210
07:08:03,340 --> 07:08:06,410
clarification on what we are talking about of here?

6211
07:08:06,410 --> 07:08:10,814
I think I do. The option one is to take or one of the options.

6212
07:08:10,814 --> 07:08:13,216
I'm not sure I've lost track which one is which. One of the

6213
07:08:13,216 --> 07:08:17,754
options is to take action on both the annexation and the

6214
07:08:17,754 --> 07:08:20,957
UEA, with the verbal proffer that we do agree to, that we

6215
07:08:20,957 --> 07:08:24,428
would be only be able to move forward with the UEA if it's

6216
07:08:24,428 --> 07:08:27,764
developed as a conservation subdivision, and staff would

6217
07:08:27,764 --> 07:08:31,368
work that out based on how they typically do for development

6218
07:08:31,368 --> 07:08:35,371
plans. Or the second option would be making taking a step

6219
07:08:35,371 --> 07:08:38,908
forward on the annexation with the UEA to come back at a later

6220
07:08:38,908 --> 07:08:42,245
date. Our preference would be the first, but if it's we want

6221
07:08:42,245 --> 07:08:45,315
this project approved and if the only way to do that on this

6222
07:08:45,315 --> 07:08:48,452
is the second we can make that work, we just need to be able

6223
07:08:48,452 --> 07:08:52,520
to move forward. Council Member Cook.

6224
07:08:58,194 --> 07:09:01,331
I'm not sure how I understand that. That second option is

6225
07:09:01,331 --> 07:09:03,600
functionally different from a continuance, so I'm just

6226
07:09:03,600 --> 07:09:05,735
struggling a little bit if it's going to come back anyway. It

6227
07:09:05,735 --> 07:09:10,407
sounds like we're all coming back anyway. But that being

6228
07:09:10,407 --> 07:09:15,478
said, I just want to I just want to like go back to the

6229
07:09:15,478 --> 07:09:19,820
fact that this is only one issue of many, many issues that

6230
07:09:19,820 --> 07:09:23,953
have been brought and that we still don't know. And the big

6231
07:09:23,953 --> 07:09:27,156
one is that there is a huge chunk of Army Corps of

6232
07:09:27,156 --> 07:09:31,161
Engineers land that they are likely to not approve any

6233
07:09:31,161 --> 07:09:33,763
development on. That is going to be infrastructure

6234
07:09:33,763 --> 07:09:36,433
improvement. That's going to be sewer pipes. All of these

6235
07:09:36,433 --> 07:09:38,769
things that we are talking about tonight that make this

6236
07:09:38,769 --> 07:09:41,905
seem like it might be a nice project, could possibly not

6237
07:09:41,905 --> 07:09:46,977
happen at all. So to me, it's this whether it gets verbally

6238
07:09:46,977 --> 07:09:50,447
put in and we come back later or, or because verbally put in

6239
07:09:50,447 --> 07:09:53,717
tonight or we come back later for this amendment, it doesn't

6240
07:09:53,717 --> 07:09:58,521
actually impact the fact that this is a translational zoning

6241
07:09:58,521 --> 07:10:02,726
or large parcel of land with a lot of unknown factors that

6242
07:10:02,726 --> 07:10:07,330
frankly, like make even the possibility of the good things

6243
07:10:07,330 --> 07:10:11,868
just so far outweighed by what seems like it's going to be

6244
07:10:11,868 --> 07:10:15,405
just a catastrophic mess that we're going to have to pick up

6245
07:10:15,405 --> 07:10:19,800
later. So I guess it doesn't really matter to me which one

6246
07:10:19,800 --> 07:10:22,145
we go with. I'm still going to be a no. I think there's so

6247
07:10:22,145 --> 07:10:25,140
many unknowns here. I cannot imagine that we would vote yes

6248
07:10:25,140 --> 07:10:29,190
on this project, even if the conservation was written in.

6249
07:10:29,190 --> 07:10:31,688
That to me, was like sort of not the most important piece of

6250
07:10:31,688 --> 07:10:35,288
this. Thank you for your comments.

6251
07:10:36,559 --> 07:10:39,960
Yes. I'm just wondering, are there

6252
07:10:39,960 --> 07:10:41,698
other? First of all, I'm not sure I fully understand the

6253
07:10:41,698 --> 07:10:44,167
safeguard of it coming back to us. Maybe I need to hear it

6254
07:10:44,167 --> 07:10:50,390
again, but you know, I you know, anyways, it's been a long

6255
07:10:50,390 --> 07:10:56,913
night and a long week, so I'm doing my best here. I want, you

6256
07:10:56,913 --> 07:10:59,383
know, is there then an opportunity to have, like, you

6257
07:10:59,383 --> 07:11:05,540
know, other safeguards put within the UEA if that's the

6258
07:11:05,540 --> 07:11:08,925
direction we're going in. Otherwise I think there are

6259
07:11:08,925 --> 07:11:12,929
legitimate concerns that if this doesn't go forward, then

6260
07:11:12,929 --> 07:11:17,200
you get the same amount of traffic. I mean, you're shaking

6261
07:11:17,200 --> 07:11:19,335
your head, but like that legitimately could happen. Like

6262
07:11:19,335 --> 07:11:22,339
somebody could develop this like, you know, without going

6263
07:11:22,339 --> 07:11:24,607
through an annexation process where you have single family

6264
07:11:24,607 --> 07:11:27,410
homes without the preservation of the open space with the same

6265
07:11:27,410 --> 07:11:30,279
amount of traffic. Or you may be deciding, do you love

6266
07:11:30,279 --> 07:11:32,548
traffic or trees more, or do you, you know, do you love

6267
07:11:32,548 --> 07:11:35,218
trees more than you don't like traffic? Because those are

6268
07:11:35,218 --> 07:11:40,180
legitimate outcomes of this of this process. So.

6269
07:11:40,690 --> 07:11:43,690
Ladies and gentlemen, please, please.

6270
07:11:44,270 --> 07:11:46,495
Yeah. And this is, this isn't the venue for having.

6271
07:11:46,495 --> 07:11:49,699
Correct? Correct. It's not having time to discuss.

6272
07:11:49,699 --> 07:11:51,701
It is, but have been told by the applicant that that's not

6273
07:11:51,701 --> 07:11:57,101
possible. And so it makes it difficult to evaluate.

6274
07:11:58,180 --> 07:12:03,118
Are there any other comments? All right. I have to figure out

6275
07:12:03,118 --> 07:12:08,518
what the question is. Which of the two options.

6276
07:13:18,861 --> 07:13:24,861
All right. Council colleagues I need a little direction here.

6277
07:13:25,670 --> 07:13:28,300
The the direction is am I going to read this entire sentence or

6278
07:13:28,300 --> 07:13:34,810
am I going to read half of it? And what I is, are we going to

6279
07:13:34,810 --> 07:13:40,210
move to adopt an ordinance annexing Morgan Farms, period.

6280
07:13:40,750 --> 07:13:44,820
Or are we going to adopt an ordinance annexing Morgan Farm

6281
07:13:44,820 --> 07:13:48,757
into the city of Durham and to authorize. Well, I'm sorry, the

6282
07:13:48,757 --> 07:13:51,694
first option is annexing Morgan Farm into the city of Durham,

6283
07:13:51,694 --> 07:13:54,896
period. Or annexing Morgan Farm into the city of Durham and to

6284
07:13:54,896 --> 07:13:58,434
authorize the city manager to enter into a utility extension

6285
07:13:58,434 --> 07:14:04,390
agreement with the MI Homes of Raleigh, LLC. I need direction,

6286
07:14:04,390 --> 07:14:08,778
so I'm going to say option one is just annexing into the city,

6287
07:14:08,778 --> 07:14:13,382
and we bring the other part back later. Or option two read

6288
07:14:13,382 --> 07:14:17,186
the entire motion and we follow the same practice that we've

6289
07:14:17,186 --> 07:14:20,550
been doing with other cases where they make the proffer and

6290
07:14:20,550 --> 07:14:25,861
staff takes it on, adding it to the language at a later date.

6291
07:14:25,861 --> 07:14:30,466
So if I can get a option 1 or 2 from each person, Council

6292
07:14:30,466 --> 07:14:35,137
Member Kopac. I'm not clear on, I'm not sure

6293
07:14:35,137 --> 07:14:37,406
I'm clear on what the advantage of one versus.

6294
07:14:37,406 --> 07:14:39,742
The other. So so.

6295
07:14:39,742 --> 07:14:42,110
I'm saying I'm not clear. I'm not sure I'm clear on the

6296
07:14:42,110 --> 07:14:43,612
advantages of one versus the other.

6297
07:14:43,612 --> 07:14:49,170
So option one is yes, we annexed it into the city and it

6298
07:14:49,170 --> 07:14:52,687
stops there. Nothing else can happen until nothing. The

6299
07:14:52,687 --> 07:14:55,424
utility extension agreement cannot happen until the

6300
07:14:55,424 --> 07:14:58,694
language is inserted. The staff takes care of it, and then it

6301
07:14:58,694 --> 07:15:01,430
comes back to council at a later date and be placed on the

6302
07:15:01,430 --> 07:15:05,368
agenda to be approved. And the annexation just happens by

6303
07:15:05,368 --> 07:15:08,904
itself, or the annexation happens and the utility

6304
07:15:08,904 --> 07:15:14,777
extension happens, and we rely on staff. Indeed, the legal

6305
07:15:14,777 --> 07:15:19,114
team and the applicant and the owners to pretty much do what

6306
07:15:19,114 --> 07:15:21,784
we normally do with other cases. The developer makes a

6307
07:15:21,784 --> 07:15:24,854
case, makes a proffer, and staff said, all right, we've

6308
07:15:24,854 --> 07:15:27,389
heard it. We're going to add it in and we'll we'll move on from

6309
07:15:27,389 --> 07:15:31,460
there. So are we going to rely on staff to just add the

6310
07:15:31,460 --> 07:15:36,665
language in there and they move on, or are we going to annex it

6311
07:15:36,665 --> 07:15:39,935
and they bring this back for us to review it again on the

6312
07:15:39,935 --> 07:15:44,606
agenda later, which is the utility extension, which is

6313
07:15:44,606 --> 07:15:46,608
where the leverage points are, I guess.

6314
07:15:46,608 --> 07:15:50,120
And so can nothing happen if there's an annexation and

6315
07:15:50,120 --> 07:15:52,681
nothing else. Let me I'll let the attorney

6316
07:15:52,681 --> 07:15:55,351
address it. Okay. I have cleared that

6317
07:15:55,351 --> 07:15:57,753
clarify this with the planning director.

6318
07:15:57,753 --> 07:16:00,489
So if you want to. See the.

6319
07:16:00,489 --> 07:16:04,260
UEA at a later date and you want to see the language that

6320
07:16:04,260 --> 07:16:07,963
gets hammered out, making sure that we're dealing with the

6321
07:16:07,963 --> 07:16:11,233
conservation subdivision, what you would do tonight are the

6322
07:16:11,233 --> 07:16:13,369
things that you have had the public hearing for. So you

6323
07:16:13,369 --> 07:16:16,772
would vote on the annexation itself. You would vote to

6324
07:16:16,772 --> 07:16:20,242
assign the initial zoning. So it's in it's a translational

6325
07:16:20,242 --> 07:16:23,712
zoning and that would be it. And then the UEA would come

6326
07:16:23,712 --> 07:16:26,849
back as a contract. So you don't have to have a public

6327
07:16:26,849 --> 07:16:30,919
hearing to approve a contract. Okay. Does that make sense to

6328
07:16:30,919 --> 07:16:35,119
everybody? But if we grant the annexation

6329
07:16:36,592 --> 07:16:41,596
tonight, we cannot grant it. So it would just be granted. So if

6330
07:16:41,596 --> 07:16:44,660
the utility agreement comes back and we don't like it as

6331
07:16:44,660 --> 07:16:48,866
it's written. We're opening up for not great.

6332
07:16:49,805 --> 07:16:52,700
You would have a piece of property that's in the city

6333
07:16:52,700 --> 07:16:56,211
with city zoning, but not an agreement to extend the

6334
07:16:56,211 --> 07:16:58,211
utilities. Yes.

6335
07:17:02,417 --> 07:17:07,556
As a council. So so with that, with the annexation approved,

6336
07:17:07,556 --> 07:17:12,356
but no utility extension agreement, that's in practice.

6337
07:17:13,762 --> 07:17:16,565
Do you not an annex. You don't you don't have the full rights

6338
07:17:16,565 --> 07:17:18,901
of an annexation, right? If you don't have the utilities. So

6339
07:17:18,901 --> 07:17:25,240
it's so it's it's annexation in name only. Because you don't

6340
07:17:25,240 --> 07:17:28,443
have you don't have you don't have the, the the rights to the

6341
07:17:28,443 --> 07:17:32,381
utilities. I mean, the property would be

6342
07:17:32,381 --> 07:17:35,517
within the city's jurisdiction. But lacking.

6343
07:17:35,517 --> 07:17:39,120
But lacking the water and sewer infrastructure.

6344
07:17:39,120 --> 07:17:41,390
Yeah. Thank you. So nothing they can do

6345
07:17:41,390 --> 07:17:47,390
basically with it. They our leverage is the utilities. You

6346
07:17:49,331 --> 07:17:52,801
know, so that that's you know, and it's going to come back to

6347
07:17:52,801 --> 07:17:55,204
Council Member Burris point and we'll come back on the agenda.

6348
07:17:55,204 --> 07:17:59,740
No, it won't be a community meeting. But if it's on the

6349
07:17:59,740 --> 07:18:02,544
agenda, it can be pulled and people can address it that way.

6350
07:18:02,544 --> 07:18:09,144
So to me this kind of meets everyone's concerns. But so

6351
07:18:10,423 --> 07:18:14,761
what am I doing? Am I going to. So let me Council Member Kopac

6352
07:18:14,761 --> 07:18:17,970
I can start down here, give you some time?

6353
07:18:17,970 --> 07:18:20,970
Yeah. Council Member Rist option 1

6354
07:18:20,567 --> 07:18:22,235
or. 2, one, which is like the sort

6355
07:18:22,235 --> 07:18:23,970
of half. Of the annexation.

6356
07:18:23,970 --> 07:18:26,372
Just annexation. Yeah. Okay. How do that.

6357
07:18:26,372 --> 07:18:30,310
Council Member Cook. I think we put the whole thing

6358
07:18:30,310 --> 07:18:32,579
to a vote tonight. I'm sorry.

6359
07:18:32,579 --> 07:18:36,116
The whole thing to a vote tonight.

6360
07:18:36,116 --> 07:18:37,984
No. Before we get to that, I need to know.

6361
07:18:37,984 --> 07:18:42,255
One was. As I proceed, as normal. Oh, I thought that was

6362
07:18:42,255 --> 07:18:46,927
one of the options. Well, before I before I moved

6363
07:18:46,927 --> 07:18:50,330
to the entire motion, you know, let me do this. Option one is

6364
07:18:50,330 --> 07:18:53,533
just the annexation. Option two, annexation with the

6365
07:18:53,533 --> 07:18:56,603
extension agreement later. Option three is everything, as

6366
07:18:56,603 --> 07:18:58,671
is. Everything as is.

6367
07:18:58,671 --> 07:19:01,671
Okay. If we do everything.

6368
07:19:03,677 --> 07:19:05,110
As is. Is that not allowing the

6369
07:19:05,110 --> 07:19:09,882
proffer included. with the conservation or it is included?

6370
07:19:09,882 --> 07:19:11,884
I mean, the property has already been made, so it would

6371
07:19:11,884 --> 07:19:12,886
be so. Yeah.

6372
07:19:12,886 --> 07:19:13,954
Proceed like. We normally.

6373
07:19:13,954 --> 07:19:17,624
Would with the proffer. So everything as a. as it's all

6374
07:19:17,624 --> 07:19:22,424
right. That's option three. That would be okay.

6375
07:19:22,695 --> 07:19:27,495
Option three. And I'm open to option one.

6376
07:19:33,840 --> 07:19:38,645
Just annexation. Just I'll do three if we want. But I want to

6377
07:19:38,645 --> 07:19:45,852
vote for it. So either way. I mean if it's one I'd want to

6378
07:19:45,852 --> 07:19:48,254
have more included than we've already talked about, but it

6379
07:19:48,254 --> 07:19:51,324
seems that's a little bit difficult to do here. At 2:18

6380
07:19:51,324 --> 07:19:59,124
a.m.. So I guess I'll say, excuse me. Yeah. What's done? I

6381
07:20:02,135 --> 07:20:08,735
guess I'll do option three. Either. I don't, I don't, I

6382
07:20:11,277 --> 07:20:18,551
don't know, I don't, I. Four on three. Oh is it for three. You

6383
07:20:18,551 --> 07:20:21,154
said what did you say. Three. Three.

6384
07:20:21,154 --> 07:20:24,910
Just read the. Motion. Mr. mayor. The proffer

6385
07:20:24,910 --> 07:20:27,761
has been captured. Correct. The proffer is captured.

6386
07:20:27,761 --> 07:20:29,962
Of the conservation subdivision and tied to the utility

6387
07:20:29,962 --> 07:20:32,832
extension agreement that has been captured. Staff has that.

6388
07:20:32,832 --> 07:20:35,635
Okay. Thank you for nodding. Thank you. Just to clarify,

6389
07:20:35,635 --> 07:20:38,638
option three is with the commitment in the UEA to have

6390
07:20:38,638 --> 07:20:40,506
the conservation subdivision. Correct. Okay.

6391
07:20:40,506 --> 07:20:45,178
Thank you. Yeah. We'll just not extending further time. All

6392
07:20:45,178 --> 07:20:51,384
right. All right. So I would read it that read everything

6393
07:20:51,384 --> 07:20:58,524
is. So I'll entertain a motion at 2:20 a.m. to adopt an

6394
07:20:58,524 --> 07:21:02,328
ordinance annexing Morgan Farm into the city of Durham and to

6395
07:21:02,328 --> 07:21:06,199
authorize the city manager to enter into a utility extension

6396
07:21:06,199 --> 07:21:11,710
agreement with am I Homes of Raleigh, LLC. This is with the

6397
07:21:11,710 --> 07:21:14,340
proffers capture. Is there a motion?

6398
07:21:14,340 --> 07:21:17,410
So second. Move them properly. Seconded.

6399
07:21:17,410 --> 07:21:24,610
Madam clerk, please open the vote. I want you to give us.

6400
07:21:31,291 --> 07:21:34,891
All right. Please close the vote.

6401
07:21:36,296 --> 07:21:41,501
The motion fails 5 to 2 with Mayor Williams and Council

6402
07:21:41,501 --> 07:21:47,501
member wrist voting. Yes. All right. That's a all right.

6403
07:21:48,841 --> 07:21:53,647
Thank you all for your time. Thanks for coming out. We are

6404
07:21:53,647 --> 07:21:56,470
adjourned at 2:21 a.m..