Good evening everyone. I'd like to call the Durham City Council
meeting to order on the fourth day of May, 2026 at 7 p.m..
Thank you so much for being here. If I could invite
everyone to please join me in a moment of silent meditation.
Thank you. Council Member Rist. If you'd like to lead us in the
Pledge of Allegiance. Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. If it
is your practice, I invite you to rise with me and recite the
Pledge of Allegiance. For. Okay.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.
And to the republic for which it stands. One nation under
God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Thank you. Madam clerk, could you please call the roll?
Yes, indeed. Mayor Williams has an excused absence, but I
believe is delayed and will be here shortly.
Mayor Pro Tem Caballero here. Council Member Baker here.
Council Member Burris here. Council Member Cook has
received an excuse absence for this evening. Council Member
Kopac here. Council Member Rist here. Thank you.
Thank you. We have several ceremonial items this evening,
so I'm going to invite Council Member Kopac to kick us off
with the Drinking Water Week proclamation. Can you hear me
now? Thank you. Raindrop or not, tonight? I
don't know. Can you come to my left here?
All right. Good evening. This evening. Good evening everyone.
It's my pleasure this evening to read a proclamation on
behalf of Drinking Water Week. And I'm glad to have Mr. Ralph
Horn up here with me today with our Williams water treatment,
one of our Williams water treatment plant operator with
the City of Durham. So thank you for your service and thanks
for being here this evening. Thank you sir.
Yeah. So proclamation. Whereas water is a fundamental and
essential need of all living things. And whereas tap water
consistently provides public health protection, fire
protection and economic support for the quality of life we
enjoy. And whereas the city delivers a dependable supply of
high quality, award winning drinking water. And whereas as
stewards, we must continue to support investment in water
infrastructure to meet the needs of future generations.
And whereas the city stands as a leader in source water
protection and recognizes the potential impacts of climate
change on this vital resource. And whereas dedicated
individuals and organizations have made significant
contributions to developing, operating and maintaining our
water systems and educating the public about their value. Now,
therefore, I. Leonardo Williams mayor of the City of Durham,
North Carolina, do hereby proclaim May 3rd to the fifth,
2026 as Drinking Water Week in the City of Durham and
encourage all residents to recognize and celebrate the
staff who produce, manage and maintain the city water
resources and support a more sustainable community by
practicing water wise habits. Signed on this day, May 4th,
Leonardo Williams Mayor. Thank you, thank you, thank
you, thank you that thank. Good evening. My name is Ralph
Horn. I'm an operator at the Williams Water Treatment
facility. I thank you guys for taking the time tonight to
recognize the vital role safe water drinking plays in all of
our lives. Just like our police, fire, emergency
responders and operators, water professionals work around the
clock to keep public health and the community safe. It is an
honor for me to accept this proclamation on behalf of my
fellow operators in the water management, supply and drinking
division and all it all employees of the City of
Durham's Department of Water Management. Our team of more
than 380 professionals works 24 hours a day, 365 days a year to
ensure that all customers have access to one of the most basic
human needs clean and safe drinking water. We've had a
very dry spring. Durham's water supply has been on everyone's
mind, and it will continue to be so until we have a good
storm that fills reservoirs back up and eventually the
public will, it fade from the public mind. Still, I would
like to inform the mayor, the city council and the public to
know that water management will still be working on your water
supply around the clock diligently to maintain it. As
Durham continues to grow, so does the number of customers
who rely on us every day for their drinking water. For this
reason, it is important that we plan today to provide for
Durham's future tomorrow. I said that right, right. Our
department is in the planning phase for building a water
intake at Jordan Lake and a new water treatment plant in South
Durham. This is part of a multiyear project to meet
Durham's needs, known as the Jordan Light Water Supply
Program. And you can hear. Adequate
supply. We also to educate the next generation about the
importance of drinking water each year. I wonder if it's the
same spot as a poster contest that highlights the value of
more choosing are starting to drop, and we can to 300 entries
making judgments. It's quite a challenge. We are not fine with
the artwork, but our. And we're very proud of our. Our fans and.
To live and work. Thank you. That.
To. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you sir.
Good evening everyone. It's my honor to read the Taiwanese
American Heritage Week proclamation. Is Chris Daly
here? Thank you for joining me. Whereas since 1999, elected
officials across the United States have observed the week
following Mother's Day at Mother's Day as Taiwanese
American Heritage Week. And Whereas the City of Durham
values its diverse community and recognizes the important
cultural, economic and civic contributions of Taiwanese
Americans. And Whereas, in the face of ongoing challenges, it
is important to recognize and celebrate the heritage and
contributions of the Taiwanese American community. And
Whereas, the United States and Taiwan share a strong
partnership rooted in democracy, freedom, and human
rights, supported by the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 and the
Six Assurances of 1982. And Whereas, Taiwanese American
Heritage Week provides an opportunity to celebrate these
contributions and the diversity that strengthens our community.
Now there are four I. Leonardo Williams, mayor of the City of
Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim May 10th
through 17th, 2026 as Taiwanese American Heritage Week in the
City of Durham and encourage all residents to recognize and
celebrate the contributions and heritage of Taiwanese
Americans. Witness my hand in the Corporate seal of the City
of Durham, North Carolina. This fourth day of May, 2026.
Mayor Williams. And members of the City
Council, thank you for taking the time and effort to approve
and sign this proclamation celebrating Taiwanese American
Heritage Week. Durham has a rich history of welcoming
people from all over the world, and this proclamation
beautifully demonstrates that spirit of acceptance. While I
am not myself a Taiwanese American, my wife who is with
us tonight, is a first generation Taiwanese American.
Just last month, she celebrated three years as a US citizen. In
nearly six years as a proud Durham resident. I am also the
father of two young boys, Taiwanese Americans, who were
both born right here at Duke Regional Hospital. The
proclamation referenced Taiwan's resilience and
perseverance in the face of ever growing geopolitical
challenges. And I just want to say, for my family, those
challenges are deeply personal. And now, more than ever, I
worry about my son's future. Taiwan faces constant,
unprovoked posturing from its much larger neighbor to the
west. On a recent family trip to visit my wife's family, we
stopped at Hualien, on Taiwan's east coast. The peaceful
serenity was interrupted every few hours by F-16 fighter jets
roaring into the skies. We learned that these jets are
constantly scrambling to intercept military aircraft
from the People's Liberation Army. Entering Taiwan's air
defense identification zone without permission. This hits
close to home for me, because if my sons choose to maintain
their dual citizenship into adulthood, they will be
required to serve in the Taiwanese military and possibly
defend Taiwan from an invading force. Because of this reality,
this proclamation is not mere platitudes. It is a declaration
of solidarity. Tonight you have told my wife, my children and
all Taiwanese Americans living in Durham, across North
Carolina, and even the United States. We see you. We value
your heritage, and we stand with you in your quest for
freedom and democracy. Durham has a rich history of
supporting the oppressed, whether supporting refugees
fleeing the threat of war or standing up against systemic
racial injustices that were taking place here at home.
Durham is a city for good. And tonight, once again, you have
chosen to stand up for the marginalized in our community.
Thank you. Good evening. I will be
presenting the Firefighters Day Proclamation. So if chiefs.
Could please come up and Durham Fire and Rescue.
Whereas firefighters serve the City of Durham with courage,
dedication and professionalism, responding to emergencies at
all hours to protect lives and property and the safety of our
community. And whereas firefighters placed themselves
in harm's way to safeguard residents and visitors,
demonstrating extraordinary commitment to public service
and the well-being of others. And Whereas International
Firefighters Day is observed annually on May 4th to
recognize and honor firefighters around the world
for their bravery, sacrifice and unwavering service, their
communities. And Whereas this day also provides an
opportunity to remember and honor firefighters who have
been injured or who have made the ultimate sacrifice in the
line of duty. And whereas the Durham Fire Department proudly
serves the whole city through emergency response, fire
prevention efforts, public safety, education and community
outreach initiatives that help keep residents safe. And
whereas recognizing International Firefighters Day
highlights the essential role of firefighters play in
protecting our community and provides an opportunity for
residents to express their appreciation for their service
and sacrifice. Now, therefore, I. Leonardo Williams, mayor of
the City of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim
May 4th, 2026 as International Firefighters Day in the City of
Durham and encourage all residents to recognize the
dedication, bravery and service of firefighters and to aim to
express their gratitude for the work they do to protect our
community. Witness my hand the corporate seal of the City of
Durham, North Carolina. This fourth day of May, 2026. May
4th be with you. All.
Thank you very much. Madam Mayor Pro Tem, members of
the City Council. Good evening. My name is Bob. I have the
pleasure of serving as the fire chief of this great city. With
me tonight are two members. They did come up. I was afraid
that they would hide in the back of the Durham Fire
Department, who have great significance. I have one of our
most senior and one of our most junior members with me tonight.
Our department senior members, Captain Travis Melvin, who
graduated in August of 1994 from Academy eight. Travis is
our longest serving member in operations, saving and saving
lives and property in the city for over 32 years. Cap melvin's
other duties include serving as the liaison to 911 and as a
response plan specialist, where he designs and implements
response strategies for the city. Travis also serves as the
president of Bull City Firefighters, one of our three
employee groups. Capt Melvin is assigned to Engine Company one,
quartered right across the street at 139 East Morgan
Street, and he's a native Durham Light, our department's
junior members, firefighter Davon Blackwell, who graduated
on April 17th, 2026, on from Academy 45 year. Blackwell
graduated with 26 other new firefighter just 17 days ago.
And while they're all equally junior, if you will, I asked
Davon specifically to represent our newest members tonight
because he was picked by his peers to represent them at
their academy class. Graduation. Fifer Blackwell is also
assigned in company one. He's originally from San Bernardino,
California, and I'd love to say our recruitment is just that
good that we grabbed him in California. He came to the area
to finish college, and then later he took his son to visit
a firehouse. And, well, the rest is history Council. Thank
you so much for recognizing the great work of your firefighters
tonight. The officers and members of the Durham Fire
Department protect the lives, property and environment of the
city. 24 over 365 your fire department does that by
responding to fires, medical emergencies, auto accidents,
hazardous materials incidents, technical rescue, entrapment,
and all manner of other events that require life saving and
caring skill. We were called to help. Three I'm sorry. 35,805
times in 2025, and we always answer that call so that, you
know, to answer that many. Number one calls for service.
The DFD had to respond 52,000 times. And to provide our high
level of service to the community, we trained over
108,000 hours during the year. Your fire department also works
very hard to prevent the 911 call from happening in the
first place. Through fire code enforcement and strong public
safety education efforts, including three summer youth
camps. Today is International Firefighters Day, a day set
aside to recognize firefighters from all across our world who
put their lives on the line to save others. In the United
States, there are over a million firefighters. Here in
Durham, there's 449 men and women keeping our communities
safe. On behalf of all of them, thank you very much for the
kind and thoughtful recognition of their strong work. Thank you.
Thank you very much. All right. Good evening,
everyone. I'd like to call forward Gregory Williams and
David Braddock from Bike Durham. It is bike month. I'm
going to don my bike helmet since I biked in for bike
month, as did Council Member Kopac, who's also going to join
me here. So whereas Mayor's National Bike Month, a
celebration of biking as transportation, recreation and
community connection that benefits public health,
environmental sustainability and quality of life. And
whereas the City of Durham continues to invest in its
bicycle and pedestrian network, including $75 million for new
and repaired sidewalks via the successful 2024 connector and
bond issue. And Whereas, the City of City and County of
Durham continue to plan for strategic expansion of biking
and walking networks via the Durham Bike and Walk Plan,
charting a course toward a safer, more connected and more
equitable transportation system. And whereas May 6th is
bike walk and roll to school day, when students, parents and
educators across Durham are encouraged to travel to school
by foot, by bicycle or other active means throughout the
month of May. And whereas May 9th is the Bull City Bike
Stampede, a ride organized by Bike Durham. Thank you all.
When cyclists of all ages take to Durham streets together to
celebrate and advocate for safer infrastructure for all,
and whereas May 11th through 17th is Bike to Work Week, when
commuters across Durham are encouraged to swap car trips
for bike trips, reducing emissions and promoting health
and economic benefits of cycling as transportation and
bike. Durham will host the annual Ride of Silence on May
20th. A memorial ride through downtown Durham to honor those
killed or injured while biking, affirming that every traffic
death is preventable. Now, therefore, I Leonardo Williams,
mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby
proclaim May 2026 as National Bike Month in the City of
Durham and encourage all residents to ride, walk and
roll this month in the Bull City. Witness my hand and the
corporate seal of the City of Durham, North Carolina. This
fourth day of May, 2026. Leonardo Williams mayor.
Thank you, Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tem and members of
City Council for this proclamation. Recognizing May
as National Bike Month in Durham. My name is David
Bradwell. I volunteer with Bike Durham as the advocacy
co-chair. I for the past five years have been biking my kid
to Echo Elementary in Old West Durham, and I've been biking to
work for much longer. On behalf of Bike Durham, I'm grateful
for the city's partnership and its commitment to making Durham
streets safer and more welcoming for everyone who
walks, bikes and rolls. This proclamation reflects not just
a celebration, but a shared commitment to the work ahead.
This month, we invite all Durham residents to join us for
the Bike Month events announced in the proclamation and found
at Bike Durham. Next. I'd like to hand it off to Gregory
Williams, advocacy campaign organizer at Bike Durham.
Good evening, Mayor Williams. Council members, we invite you
to attend our 10th our Events this month to send a powerful
message to our community that Durham's leaders are committed
to safe streets for everyone. Bike month is a celebration,
but it's also a time to reflect and honor those who we have
lost on our streets. Most recently, Jack O'Shea, who was
killed by a driver on Coal Mill Road. With tragedies like this
underscoring the importance we recognize the work, the City of
Durham staff has done on the recent bike walk plan update.
We call on council to identify the resources necessary to
fully implement its recommendations. Durham is
making progress on biking and transportation in general, with
new sidewalks and bike lanes, improved crosswalks and bus
service, and a community that shows up to ride, to remember,
to advocate and to imagine a city where everyone can get
around safely. We have more work to do, but we're glad to
do it alongside this city. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you colleagues. Now I
have announcements by council. Does anyone have any
announcements? And, Madam Clerk, we're keeping our
announcements to two minutes each. Colleagues. Anyone? Go
ahead. Council Member Baker. Good evening everyone. Thank
you all for being in the building. I'll be quick. I do
just want to say thank you for your patience in signing up. It
is not every meeting that we have such a large number of
people attending, but it also doesn't never happen. And so I
do. I do think that we need to develop some some protocols for
larger groups so that people don't have to wait for extended
periods of time to, to sign up to speak. So I hope that we can
do that. Just want to say thank you to all of our city workers
every day for all that you do. And thanks to it,
communications, all the city staff who help keep our
meetings running smoothly. That's it. Thank you.
Thank you. Any other council members? Good. Council Member
Kopac. Thank you, Madam Mayor Pro Tem.
So a few announcements. First of all, I just want to give
appreciation to your ministries of Durham and Durham Center for
Senior Life for the recent annual galas and celebrations.
Council Member Burris and I got to see the Durham Center for
Senior Life House band perform and see the the residents take
over the dance floor. So that was a really joyous
celebration. Appreciate and thank Haiti Reborn for the
recent forum. I was invited to. Congratulations to Cornwallis
youth and their nCCU mentors with Grace to Inc. for
completion of a podcast series everyone should check out, and
the courage and leadership they showed in the face of recent
violence, which they should not have to show as people so
young. The second annual Solar festival was a big hit at Lyons
Farm Elementary with students, solar builds and a puppet show
in partnership with the NC Climate Justice Collective and
Paper hand puppets, showing us the possibility of a future
with clean, abundant energy built with collective power on
our agenda. Tonight you won't hear about Keep Durham
Beautiful and their annual report, but I want to
acknowledge and commend their ongoing work to expand our tree
canopy and clear invasive plants. Happy Jewish American
Heritage Month! And finally, as a reminder, the City manager
will be releasing his budget on May 18th. The best times to
give input at this stage are our work sessions on May 18th
and May 21st, and at the June 1st budget hearing. Thank you.
Thank you. Council Member Burris do you have any
comments? Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem again.
Happy. May everyone. In addition to Bike Month, it is
also was also May day on Friday. And I want to thank all the
Durham residents who went over to Raleigh to celebrate or to
join in the thousands of people, literally tens of
thousands of people at the May day protest in Raleigh last
Friday, part of the May Day Strong campaign nationwide, I
want to thank you for helping to organize that rally, and I
want to thank everyone that came out to express their deep
concern with the with the direction our state's going in
and how we need to fund our schools and our people in much
more substantial ways and avoid tax cuts. So thanks for all
that came out. Also last Saturday, May 2nd was the
Garmin Marathon. I want to thank the Durham Sports
Commission for sponsoring that and helping to organize that in
Durham. As you all know, the Garmin Marathon is only in a
couple cities a year. It's a great honor for that to have
been in Durham again. Literally thousands of runners who
participated in that marathon. Big runner myself, as you know.
Yeah, but I wasn't able to get out. But it's great to wake up
Saturday morning and see literally a wall of runners
coming down my street participating in that. Is it
great for the runners? They're also great for Durham to
attract so many folks to our city to participate in the
Garmin Marathon. Finally, I want to say going back to the
month of last of April, I want to thank the Haiti Heritage
Center for hosting a screening of the new documentary by
Durham documentarian Kenny Alzheimer called Moonchild.
Moonchild. It screened on April 30th, which I think is also
International Jazz Day. If I'm not mistaken. If you if you've
not seen it, don't miss a chance to see moonsault
Moonchild. It's the untold story of a Durham legend who's
a jazz pianist, but also an amazing connector. His name is
brother Yusef Saleem. Yusef Saleem it's 100% Durham Jazz
Durham story about the power of music, the power of jazz,
connections to the nCCU jazz program, which is one of the
strongest in the country, and also connections to the Muslim
community in Durham that centered around West Chapel
Hill Street, where the mosque still is. So if you have a
chance, look out for Moonchild, an amazing story of Durham.
Again, thanks to Kenny Dulcimer, the filmmaker, for
bringing that story to all of us. It's a fascinating story.
You got to see it. So thank you. Mayor Pro Tem.
Thank you. I have just a few announcements. I want to first
acknowledge Scout troop that is here. Scout troop 400. I think
there are towards the back of the chamber.
So thank you so much for being here and participating. If
y'all want to stand. Up.
It's always a pleasure to have scouts here with us. Secondly,
and I will leave it with the clerk. Somebody left their
phone. It's just like a black. So I'll leave it with the with
the clerk. So if you're missing your phone, look through your
belongings. And finally, I will be reordering the agenda quite
a lot tonight. There are certain things that are going
to have to get switched around, so please bear with me. When
the mayor is here, he has a second. I don't have a second.
So I ask for patience this evening. Hopefully he will get
here around eight between 830. So those are all. Oh, and then
finally I do want to extend a huge shout out to everyone who
did was able to go out to Raleigh. It was an incredible
afternoon. I was very happy to be able to participate and just
delighted that that many folks showed up. I will say it was
also distressing and disappointing because the last
time I marched in Raleigh for a large red for an event, my kids
were in elementary school and my third kid is about to
graduate from Riverside in June, and we still don't have
adequate funding for a public schools. So we have a lot of
work to do in the state of North Carolina, and I encourage
every single one of you who's here tonight to keep doing your
civic duty and showing up for our public schools. Thank you.
Madam manager, priority items. I'll go with madam. So sorry.
I'll go with manager madam. All right? Yeah. Thank you, madam
mayor. Pro tem, members of council. The city manager's
office has one priority item this evening. That is agenda
item number 27. That's been added to your agenda. It's a
revision to the 2026 City Council meeting schedule. This
has been added to move the work session that was originally
scheduled for May 7th, to now take place on May 18th. That
item is on your agenda. And those are all our priority
items from the manager's office.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Attorney.
Thank you, Madam Mayor Pro Tem, the city Attorney's office has
no priority items. Although I think I will speak on behalf of
Council Member Baker. Perhaps to point out that there's
another supplemental item that's been added to the
agenda. Item number 28. Thank you, Madam Attorney.
Madam clerk. Thank you, Madam Mayor Pro Tem,
the city clerk's office has no priority items tonight.
Thank you. So the next order of business for us is to read out
the agenda. We will be taking up our consent agenda. Consent
agenda is everything that we discussed at our work session.
And it's all together. It's why it's on consent. Item number
one developmental Review Performance Audit March 2026.
Item number five opioid Settlement Update and Spending
authorization. Item number eight Durham Armory HVAC
upgrades, design build contract with Brady Train Service, Inc..
Item number nine Keep Durham Beautiful 2025 Annual Report.
Item number ten Second Amendment to contract with
International Business Machines Corporation for next generation
ERP implementation. Item number 11 supplemental Agreement
Number two two Governing agreement number 21551 with P
USA, Inc. for cultural for Central Durham Bus Rapid
Transit design 30% and National Environmental Policy Act, Nepa
study item number 12. Extension of street impact fee credits to
Creek Wood highway 70, Alexander, LLC, item number 13.
Construction contract for signalized pedestrian upgrades
at 13 locations with Traffic Control Devices, LLC. Item
number 14 Go Durham FY 25 Annual Report. Item number 15
FY 26 Water and Sewer Funds Budget Ordinance Amendment,
item number 16, amendment number five to Professional
Engineering Services. Contract number 14605 with Hazen and
Sawyer, PC for the Lake McKee and little River Raw water pump
Station improvements. Item number 17. Professional
services contract with the Wooten Company for the Duke
Golf Course. Aerial rehabilitation, rehabilitation
and Lick Basin Sewer assessments Project. Item
number 18. Professional services contract award to
McKim and Creed, Inc. for the Southeast Pressure Zone pump
Station upgrade, item number 26. Approval of the draft FY
2627 Actual Action Plan, ARP and Recommended Funding Plan.
That is everything that I have under consent and I have no
pulled agenda items. So if I could go ahead and get a
motion. So moved.
I have a motion a second. All in favor, madam clerk, could
you please open the vote? Pull. Madam Mayor Pro Tem, you need
to vote yes. Could you please open it? It's
open. Mine is not. Oh, there it is. Sorry, sorry. Y'all okay?
Could you please close. It?
The motion passes unanimously. Thank you, Madam clerk. Under
general business agenda, I have items number two, children's
wealth building resolution and number three, endangered
species day resolution. We have a few speakers on that. And
then we have several other items under general business
agenda. Madam attorney, I know that we have to take up item
number 28 before item number four. But those are all under
general business public hearings. And or. Sorry.
I'm sorry, Madam Mayor. Pro Tem number 28 is not a public
hearing item. It's a resolution that's required in order to
hold the public hearing at item number four. So what I would
suggest is maybe you work through the agenda. Go ahead
and tackle the supplemental items and leave all of the
public hearings at the end. Okay. So we're going to do item
number 28, which is the supplemental item resolution to
set a public hearing to impose a temporary moratorium on
developmental approvals for data centers, cryptocurrency
mining operations, and any use associated with data center
processing facilities within the city of Durham. Pursuant to
NC. I don't have the statute, but that's what we have to do
first. And Council, this is your item. So I'm going to pass
it to you if you have any comments.
Since this is just the resolution, I'll go ahead and
save my comments for the actual ordinance.
Perfect. Thank you. Could I please get a motion to adopt a
resolution to set a public hearing to impose a temporary
moratorium on developmental approvals for data centers,
cryptocurrency mining operations, and any use
associated with data center processing facilities within
the City of Durham. Pursuant to NC General Statute 160 Dash 107
and Udo section 3.99.6. So moved..
Madam Mayor Pro Tem, second. Madam.
I'm sorry to interrupt. We signed up to speed on.
I will not be allowing folks to shout at us from to the dais.
That is okay. It's going to get handled. This is just the
resolution. Your opportunity to speak is coming. We can't let
you speak until we accept the resolution to hold a public
hearing. If we do not pass item number four, there is no item
number 28. That is the order that we have to follow or we
can't do the thing that folks have signed up to do. So we are
going to accept the resolution. There is a motion and a second,
and we are going to hold the vote. And that will allow item
number four to pursue. Otherwise, item number four
cannot pursue. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Is it is the. Could you
please open the vote? Thank you. Could you please close the
vote? Motion passes unanimously.
Thank you, Madam Clerk. Now I'll be going back up under our
general business items, we have. Under our general business
agenda, we have item number two. Children's wealth building
resolution. And item number three, endangered species day
resolution for both items. Folks who signed up, I would
like you to keep your minutes to two minutes. Excuse me, your
comments to two minutes each, because we have a lot of public
hearings this evening. I'm going to start with our
registrants online first. Madam clerk. Yeah. So I have okay. So
I have Miss Amelia O'Rourke own, but I think she is here in
person. Is that correct? Is she here in person? Okay. Thank you
for standing up. So we're going to come to you in just a
second. I also have Kate Irish online. Is Kate okay? Okay.
Irish. You are also here in person okay. So those are the
two online speakers I have for item number two. Madam clerk, I
don't unless you sent it via email. I don't have in-person
registrants yet. It's not here yet. It's in
process. Okay. Because I know that miss
O'Rourke Owen is here in person and Miss Irish is here in
person. I'm going to go ahead and let you all come on up and
line up to speak. As soon as I have my in-person registrants.
I'll keep inviting you. I just don't have the names yet, so
please bear with us so folks can go ahead and line up here.
Yes, and remember, you have two minutes.
I'll I love it. I don't. And as soon as I have the rest
of the speakers, I will call you up. Thank you.
Samantha Roth. Okay. Good evening.
Good evening. Thank you.
I'm Kate. Irish, executive director with
Durham's Partnership for children. At the partnership,
we're focused on ensuring every child in Durham enters school
healthy and ready to succeed. We lead strategies for all
23,000 children age, birth to five and their families to
promote healthy development, learning and enhance high
quality child. Care.
Investing in the early years means lifelong outcomes for
that child and family and education, health and economic
security, early childhood investments are also critical
to our community's well-being, as child care and early
education. Our work supports and critical infrastructure for
our economy. We know the power of a strong foundation for
young children, and that includes a financially stable
one. This resolution on children's savings accounts
recognizes the importance of launching children and families
into a brighter futures by planting the seeds of economic
security. Many families with young children in Durham are
struggling right now to make ends meet, with the cost of
living rising and the trouble of being able to afford the
cost of housing, food, childcare, this means that
families are stretched too thin to be able to start saving and
planning for their children's future. A savings account for a
child unlocks something beyond economic security. It unlocks
hope and trust in the future. It highlights for families the
possibilities of what can be and what may be on the horizon
for their child as they grow up, college or starting a
business. A path to buying a home. The possibilities will be
endless. We want young children and families, of course, to
have financial security, but also to feel empowered to dream
about their future. These children savings accounts with
federal contributions will help put young children on a path to
a stronger and more supported future. Durham's partnership
for children is excited to partner with the city on
outreach efforts for this campaign.
Thank you. Thank you.
Miss O'Rourke, I. Want good evening.
My name is Amelia O'Rourke Owens.
I'm a lawyer who focuses on consumer protection and
community economic development. Before I was DOJ's twice in
2025, I worked for the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau,
where I focused on public benefits payments, fair lending
technologies, and abusive private student loans. Since
Elon Musk raised a chainsaw above his head and federal
consumer protections were on the chopping block. I've been
advising nonprofits and academic institutions on
various policy matters. One of those roles has been as a
research fellow for the center for Taxpayer Rights, where
we've read every statute notice and implementing regulation for
these new Trump accounts, also referred to as section 538
accounts. This is a long way to say that I am a nerd and also
very in the weeds. I'm thankful for Council Member Rice
Resolution and I hope that y'all will support it today. To
this end, I want to highlight the robust scholarship on
children's savings accounts and the reality of Trump accounts
as they're already being deployed first. Since Michael
Sheridan started researching child assets as poverty
alleviation strategies in 1991, there's incredible research on
the positive impacts of children's savings accounts,
even in small amounts. Doctor Willie Elliott from the
University of Michigan, articulates so beautifully that
one of the most impactful pieces of children's savings
accounts is one of the hardest to quantify, which is the hope
that it gives to the young children who are beneficiaries.
Now, turning to Durham's role and Trump accounts, these
accounts are here. They were already deployed on form 4547
on our tax filing, and the only way that children born since
January 1st, 2025 can receive their $1,000 pilot
contributions is by opening these accounts. So they also
these accounts implement almost none of the best practices for
children's savings accounts, such as automatic enrollment or
a public trustee. Given this, without the thoughtful outreach
and the city's efforts to those who would benefit most from
these accounts, we risk entrenching wealth inequality
further. Thank you. Thank you.
Next up, I think I have Ryan Hurley. And, Tabitha, hold.
On. Blackwell.
Good evening. Good evening. City Council
members. city manager and city staff. My name is Ryan Hurley.
I'm a Durham resident, parent and a local business owner here
since 2008. I am so supportive of the children's wealth
building resolution because it advances a simple but
transformative idea. Every child, every child should have
a chance to build assets, understand ownership, and see a
financial future for themselves. Many of us in this
room benefited because our parents or grandparents owned
assets through a home, a retirement account, or
investments in the stock market. They also passed down
to us a habit of saving, investing and owning something
whose value compounds over time. Far too many children in
the US have not had these advantages at the start of
their lives. Roughly half of American families don't own
equities in the stock market. That means millions of children
grow up outside one of the core systems that helps build long
term financial security. The new Invest America federal
program gives us a chance to help close that gap by allowing
eligible children to have a long term investment account in
their own name, beginning with the initial $1,000 federal
contribution. Imagine a child in Durham not just hearing
about saving and investing, but seeing it in their own name,
watching it grow over time, learning how it works, and
beginning to believe this is something I can do to imagine
that same child reaching adulthood with something of
their own money they've seen grow and compound, and the
confidence to use it toward education. A trade, starting a
business, or even buying a first home. That's my time. But
we've got an incredible opportunity in Durham, and I
hope everybody supports you. Thank you.
Thank you. Good evening.
Good evening. Good evening. Mayor Pro.
Tem and members of city council. My name is Tabitha
Blackwell and I serve as executive director of Book
Harvest. Durham. Our mission is simple. Every child deserves to
grow up surrounded by books, by stories, and by adults who
believe in their potential through programs like Book
Babies. We work with families from the very beginning,
putting books in their hands and planting the seeds of their
child's future is full of possibility. That belief is
exactly why we launched Bright Futures and partnerships with
Latino Community Credit Union. We currently manage and support
child savings accounts for 248 babies right here in Durham.
May. You know, because we know that raising a reader and
building a future go hand in hand when a family opens a
child savings account, when they see their baby's name
attached to something that's growing, as mentioned, it
changes how they think about their child's future. Just like
handing a parent a bag of books, we know that this does
the same thing. It says someone believes in your child's
future. Right now, there's real federal money on the table for
Durham families. Thousands of dollars available to eligible
children that too many families don't know exist. This
resolution asks the city to be a trusted messenger and make
sure no family misses out. That costs nothing but outreach and
will book. Harvest is ready to carry the message that we
believe in our children's future. I urge you to vote yes
to the resolution tonight. Thank you.
Thank you. Those are all the speakers I
have this evening. I don't know if council has any comments
that they'd like to provide. Council Member Rist this is
your item. I'm not sure if you wanted to say anything.
Yeah, I'll just say briefly. Yeah. This is so this is, as
you heard the speaker say, this is all about addressing wealth
inequality in this country. We know from the Federal Reserve
that 37% of families lack $400. If they were to have an
emergency with their car or a boiler. So, so many families
lack any tangible wealth. No one here expect. I'm certainly
I don't think anyone in this room expected this would come
from the Trump administration. But the reality is there's
$1,000 on the table for every child born after January 1st,
2025. For four years. And and so so we can either say, oh, we
don't want this, we don't like the name, or we can say, this
is a this is an amazing wealth infusion to every kid in our
community. It's between 2500 and 3000 kids per year that
would qualify for this accounts. It's also for kids
born before January 1st, 2025. There's also a $250 deposit
made possible. As you may have read in the papers by Michael
and Susan Dell. So anywhere from 35 to 36,000 kids in
Durham would qualify for a $250 deposit in a 538 account and
220 500 to 3000 kids per year would qualify for the $1,000
deposit in a 530 a account. All they have to do is claim the
accounts and sign up. So what we're what this resolution
committed to doing is making sure everyone in Durham knows
about this opportunity. As miss Iris said from the partnership
for children, we want all kids in Durham as they grow up with
healthy childhood education and parks to walk in and places to
play, that they also are building their financial
futures. So the resolutions before the council, I will say
there was one request from Council Member Cook to change
the title in here from Trump accounts, which is the
statutory name for these accounts, to 530 a accounts,
which is the name the Treasury calls accounts. And that's
fine, as Shakespeare said, a rose by any other name smells
just sweets out. I don't really care what the name is. I want
to make sure every child in Durham has access claims these
accounts to build wealth for the future, sir.
Thank you. Other than that change.
Colleagues. Go ahead. Council Member Burris
and Council Member Baker. Just to clarify, can we, for
the end of the resolution, can you provide a little bit more,
just a little bit more insight in terms like what exactly the
role of the city staff is? In this resolution? I think
particularly in the city manager's direct city staff to
support efforts on the part of community partners and sure
mentioned clear, frequent that all families are able to open
an account. So I want to know if you could unpack that a
little more for me or whomever. I'm sorry. The question. So the
impact on staff, is that the question?
Yes. But like the role, like what does that look like.
In that? So, so primarily what this does is with the approval
of the council, allows staff whether there's a press
conference or some other event that's happening, allows staff
to participate in that and share information about that.
This is not committing staff to any particular sort of
activities. The Office of Economic and Workforce
Development is 100% behind this resolution wants to be able to
support families not only with workforce training and jobs,
but also wealth building, and so this allows them to continue
working on this, spreading the word about this to our
community through the work they do.
And then for the record, because I am one of those and I
do appreciate your beautiful poet poetry, poetry, whatever
you had going on down there, if we can like remove the
reference to Trump and do as councilmember suggested, I
would be comfortable moving forward in those circumstances
with the commitment for that. Yeah, it's quite all right.
Thank you. Go ahead. Council Member Baker.
I had the exact same question about what exactly we were
directing staff to to do. I had asked Council Member Rist a
little bit about it before and was comforted that it's more
passive if the opportunity arises. Staff can make it
known. So our folks, sign up for your $1,000. Don't lose
your password. Thanks.
I also will say, you know, I actually talked to the state
treasurer at the event over the weekend. This is a brand new.
Not many communities, in fact, nobody else North Carolina is
even thinking about this. So we are way ahead on this, making
sure that our kids are accessing these federal
dollars, significant federal dollars. So this is one more
way, not only for our individual kids who can benefit
from this wealth infusion, but also we are a leader in the
state and folks will look to us. And I think there's gonna
be a lot of cities that will follow us because the dollars.
Are there. Any financial advisor would tell you if
there's free money in the table, you should take the free
money. Thank you. So what I have heard
on the language, was there anything that was referenced
around a Trump account? It would be changed to Children's
Savings Account. Is that changed to 530 a 538?
That's in the resolution. And colleagues were good. Okay. So
other than that change I think our motion for us this evening
is to adopt the children's wealth building resolution.
Could I please get a motion? So move.
Can I get. A second? Second.
Thank you. I have a motion, a second. Madam clerk, could you
please open the. Vote?
Could you please close the vote?
Motion passes unanimously. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Colleagues. The next item I have before us
is the Endangered Species Day resolution. I have a few
speakers signed up for that. Again, you will be given two
minutes. I will start with our online speakers first. I have
Miss Pamela Andrews signed up for item number three online.
Madam clerk, I don't know if she's here yet.
Good evening. Can you hear me? Yes, Miss Andrews, good
evening. You have two minutes. Thank you. Thank you to the
Environmental Affairs Board and member Astrid Cook for this
resolution submitted by Council. Nate Baker for helping
coordinate this important resolution. Adoption.
Recognizing the endangered salamander of the North River
is important as it is one of the rare salamanders in the
southeastern United States, which is why it is fairly
protected. The news River water dog needs protection. Yet this
is the this is the area polluted with sediment
pollution week after week, establishing a day dedicated to
endangered species is important. However, there needs
to be a clear protection for all inventoried endangered
species. Durham should require that the natural heritage lands
be protected as open space and should follow the National
Heritage Registry guidelines. When it comes to the 300 foot
riparian buffer for aquatic species like the Carolina
darter fish, no practical alternative applications should
not be allowed in these aquatic buffers. There must be even
more efforts to protect endangered plants and animals
in Durham, the Natural Heritage Land and the TCC. The Triangle
Connectivity Collaborative should both be recognized in
the new UT oh to guarantee the protection on Howards Place,
parcel had two endangered species of concern the Carolina
darter fish is a fish species of special concern, as well as
the dissected tooth wort, which is a protected species of
special concern, a vulnerable plant. Both are within the
natural heritage land, yet it was not recognized. More time a
commitment needs to be spent studying these potentially
endangered species before development is allowed to clear
cut the land. The natural heritage land is important, as
well as the TCC, which helps identify the wildlife
corridors. It is imperative that an environmental stand
needs to be taken in this new Udo. Thank you so much for your
time again. Thank you, Commissioner Imy Council Member
Baker and the Environmental Affairs Board. Thank you so
much for this. Thank you. I have one in
in-person speaker Samantha Kropp for item number three.
Hi, council members, good evening. Thank you for the
opportunity to speak. My name is Samantha Kropp. I work as
the News Riverkeeper with a nonprofit named Sound Rivers.
And I just wanted to say, echoing some of the comments in
the speaker before me, that I do appreciate this resolution
for the Endangered Species Act. It's one of the most important
environmental laws in our nation's history. As a
riverkeeper, my work to protect waterways depends on strong,
enforceable protections for the species and habitats that
sustain them. And here in the news River basin, we are home
to at least ten rare and endangered species. And that
includes, of course, the news River Water Dog, as well as
federally listed species like the Carolina madtom, the dwarf
wedge mussel, the tar River spiny mussel, and the yellow
lance. Some of these species are found nowhere else in the
world, so if we lose them here, we lose them forever. These
species aren't just rare, but they are essential. They help
maintain water quality, support habitat, and sustain the
ecosystems our communities rely on. But today, these species
face growing threats from drought, rapid development, and
polluted stormwater runoff. This resolution is a meaningful
step, but Durham's current development code still fails to
require protections for endangered species. Habitat. In
practice, that gap has allowed the city to continue approving
projects that directly impact sensitive areas, despite clear
evidence of ecological risk in places like the Lick Creek
bottomlands, a designated natural heritage area, the city
has permitted extensive development projects, such as
the 86 acre Howard's Place development, have been approved
in known endangered species habitat, and even now,
proposals are under review that would impact over 100,000ft of
stream habitat in that development area. These
decisions point to a troubling disconnect between Durham's
stated environmental values and its actual development
practices. So if Durham is serious about protecting
endangered species, it must move beyond symbolic
recognition. The city should require that mapped natural
heritage areas are preserved. This is a good first step.
Please align policy with practice.
Thank you. Thank you.
Those are all the speakers I have signed up for. That item.
Council Member Baker, this is your item. Did you want to say
anything on it? Sure. Was there a third speaker?
I don't. Send a know.
She signed up for number four. Is what we've been. number
four. Okay. Colleagues, this is a
resolution. I'm not going to read it all out. I encourage
folks to to check it out. The wording is is great. It's a
resolution spearheaded actually by the mayor of Boone, Dalton
George, who also does lobbying in Washington. The good, the
good lobbying, the rare good lobbying. This is to designate
May, May 15th, 2026 as Endangered Species Day. Part of
the reason behind this we are not the only municipality and
local government in North Carolina to do this is that
lobbyists actually use the communities that are doing
this. We they add us to a number of communities that have
passed something like this, and they take that to Washington.
So we are we are feeding into a larger advocacy system to
support the Endangered Species Act. And it was actually the
members of the Environmental Affairs Board who drafted this
specific language. You will also find in attachments an
official letter of support from the Land Use and Planning
Subcommittee of the Environmental Affairs Board,
who also commonly weigh in on development review cases,
rezoning cases and annexation cases in Durham. So many thanks
to them. To Astrid, to David and the folks on EAB who put
this together. Thank you. Anyone else have any
comments? Okay. And so the motion before us is to adopt
the Endangered Species Day resolution. Could I please get
a motion. To move?
Second motion a second. Madam clerk, please open the vote.
Please close the vote. Motion passes unanimously.
Thank you. The next items. I wonder. Do I have anyone? I'm
going to move the order around a little bit. I want to take up
item. We have a lot of speakers for item number four. Number 19
is pretty straightforward and we don't have a lot of speaker
actually, any speakers signed up for that. So I'm going to do
a agenda item number 19. First up.
19. Thank you.
I don't see them. Do you.
Sir, have you signed up with the clerk to speak?
Yes. Okay. Thank you.
Sir, when it's your time, I'm going to call you up in just a
second. I'm going to let staff do their part first. Thank you.
Good evening. Good evening.
Mayor Pro Tem, members of council manager Ferguson. Madam
attorney, my name is Ryan Smith. I'm director of the City
of Durham's community safety department. The purpose of this
public hearing is to receive resident comments regarding the
draft proposed home ARP amendment to the fiscal year
2021 Annual Action Plan and home ARP Allocation Plan. The
initial home ARP allocation plan that the City of Durham
submitted to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban
Development in 2023, committed $4,352,661 toward the
development of approximately 25 affordable rental housing units
intended to serve qualifying populations. The City of
Durham, substantial amendment to the home Allocation Plan
revises the previously approved use of home ARP funds by
reallocating funding from the development of affordable
rental housing to the provision of supportive services designed
to assist people experiencing homelessness, and accessing and
maintaining housing. Specifically, when I say
supportive services, I mean providing financial assistance
in the form of rent assistance, paying for arrears and other
things that compare clear pathways so that people who are
experiencing homelessness today can access units as well as
case management, so that when people enter, units were able
to provide the support they need to remain in units. This
public hearing is a requirement to submit a substantial
amendment to HUD. The proposed substantial amendment to the
home ARP allocation plan has been available for public
review since April 7th, 2026, and will close on May 6th.
Notice of this meeting was properly advertised in the
Herald Sun and Carson newspapers, as well as via the
City of Durham's website. The Community Safety Department,
which serves as the lead agency for the Durham Continuum of
Care, led a strategic planning process. As you all are aware,
from July through January of this year that focused on
developing a unified coalition and a credible path toward
making homelessness rare and brief in Durham, their
strategic framework was developed in collaboration with
homeless service providers, health system partners,
government agencies and people with current lived experience
of homelessness in Durham and many others. These stakeholders
met together to assess our needs, our current system's
capacity and what it would take to reduce homelessness in
Durham so that it's truly rare and brief. After completion of
this process, the Community Safety Department, in
partnership with Housing and Neighborhood Services,
determined that reallocating the funds to supportive
services will have a significantly greater and more
immediate impact on households who are currently experiencing,
or at imminent risk of experiencing homelessness.
Reallocating these funds will enable the City of Durham to
serve hundreds of households experiencing or at risk of
homelessness starting next year, provide immediate and
critical assistance, including housing stabilization, case
management and crisis intervention. Strengthen the
community's capacity to address homelessness and rapidly return
individuals and families to stable housing, including
through the provision of rental assistance. Increased system
wide flexibility to respond effectively to evolving needs,
and, importantly, advance our year one goals to reduce the
number of people who are experiencing unsheltered
homelessness by 30%. Youth who are experiencing homelessness
by 50%, and veterans who are experiencing homelessness by
30%. By next summer. The strategic reallocation aligns
with the identified service gaps and priorities within the
local homeless response system, and ensures that home ARP funds
are deployed in a manner that maximizes impact and
timeliness. The City Council is being asked to approve the
draft proposed home HRP amendment for submission to
HUD, and to authorize the City Manager to execute all
administrative requirements and contractual documents for the
implementation of the amended FY 2021 Annual Action Plan and
Home ARP Allocation Plan to reallocate funding to support
our services. Comments made during this public hearing and
written comments received from residents will be included with
the submission of the home ARP Allocation Plan. Substantial
amendment to the US Department of Housing and Urban
Development. Thank you. Thank you. You've heard the
staff report. I'll now declare this public hearing open first
to council colleagues. Have any questions or comments? Okay. If
you have signed up to speak, could you over here, sir, on
this side. Thank you. And then just state your name and you
will have two minutes. We have two people speaking. We
have Karen Miles. Okay. And if you have not
registered to speak during. Okay. Thank you. Just make sure
you fill out a card if you haven't.
Okay? Okay. Okay. Good evening, city Council.
Good evening. Durham. I am the Reverend Chris Rivers. I'm here
advocating against the approval of this reallocation of funds.
As I understand the context is, is that when the RFP was
issued, there were really no solutions at that time. I'm not
here just to advocate that we don't approve. But also I'm
here proposing a solution. We can, in fact, satisfy this need
to provide 25 affordable houses to the City of Durham at the
cost allocated to those in the proposal. Moving away from
allocated. Reallocating these funds puts us out of alignment
with housing, urban development. They've already
set their priorities, and their priorities are to put actual
buildings on the ground. Our proposal does that.
Reallocating these funds also does not offer the city a
return on the investment. With the program that we're going to
put forth and that we're putting forth, it allows for
the city council to actually get a return on this in
investments, leaving the city in a surplus of about $1.2
million based on what our current situation is right now,
we are in the state of homelessness and hopelessness.
People can't see a way to afford housing here in Durham.
We have solved that problem. We can fulfill this order. We have
the proposed order and we have the proposal here for us. So
today we're just simply here to ask the council to vote no and
reassigning those funds and and asking that the council do all
the administrative processes to actually administer us doing
the 25 affordable housing units in this community.
Thank you. Good evening. My name is Karen Mangum and I am a
licensed real estate broker. And I've worked in the Durham
community for about the last three decades. I have a very
strong desire to see affordable housing as well as a strong
stand to help reduce homelessness, because we deeply
believe the solution to homelessness is is obviously
housing. And then building all those resources and support
around that to be sure that they are able to sustain. And
the longevity is there for these families. It is been a
very critical situation for a very long time. So we really
are committed to bringing those solutions. As Chris mentioned,
to help solve this very serious epidemic. And it is a national
problem. Of course, we know it's not just local to Durham.
When we talk about solutions for homelessness as well as
affordability. Durham is a city of innovation. We all know that
in Durham we need to use that ingenuity. We have to come up
with very individual, unique solutions for Durham residents.
Durham is a very unique city, although it's great to look at
things that other places have done, it's very important to
look at what's going on here locally and what the needs are
of Durham residents. So as we gather some information to
support some of the things that we want you to understand, 17
to 44% more, these homes that TBG can offer are 17 to 44%
more affordable than other median sales prices. And with
the with the the city partnering with us, we would
create 100 jobs. There would be land improvement estimate at
1.2 million to local vendors and suppliers. So there will be
tremendous benefit, not just to the homeowners but also to the
local economy here in Durham. So we really we appreciate the
opportunity to address the council and all those today
present. Just to point out again, this,
this, this program has a significant economic impact.
Over 100 jobs. created land improvement.
Your time. Thank you so much. Thank you. Good evening.
Thank you. Thank you. Are there any other folks
registered? Sir, can you just pass that to the city clerk,
please? Thank you.
Thank you so much. Is there anyone else who has not already
registered who would like to speak on this public hearing
item? You can go ahead and come up and then sign up after you
speak. Anyone else? Okay, since there's no one else who wishes
to speak on this item, let the record. Let the record reflect
that no one else has signed up and the public hearing is
closed. And back before the council Council members, does
anyone have any questions, comments? On this item? No.
Okay, so at this point I just need a motion. First motion is
to adopt an ordinance annex. Excuse me. Wrong one. To we to
approve the draft proposed home ARP amendment for submission to
the US Department of Housing and Urban Development, HUD.
So moved. Second.
Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please
close the vote? I don't know. Not.
There it is. Motion passes unanimously.
Thank you. The next motion is to authorize
the city manager to execute all administrative requirements and
contractual documents for the implementation of the amended
FY 2021 Annual Action Plan and home ARP Allocation Plan to
reallocate funding to supportive services to
qualified populations to include populations defined in
24 CFR 91.5. So moved.
Can I get a second? Second? Thank you, madam Clerk, could
you please open the. Vote?
Could you please close. The vote?
Motion passes unanimously. Thank you.
Mr. mayor, good to see you. Would you like me to pass the
gavel back? Not yet. Okay. I'll see you
guys to. I was following on YouTube, but
I need to. Catch up. Okay? Okay.
Thank you. The next item that we'll do is our item number
four, which is the we. we the agenda item number 28 allowed
us to be able to hold to take up item number four. Several
folks signed up for item 28 to speak. I'm going to move you to
item four to speak. So you're going to get your time. We have
lots of speakers. I am going to limit everyone to one minute.
This. And I do want to Council member.
One minute. What's up? I am going to limit everyone to
one minute. We have, I think 40 speakers. So that's 40 minutes.
If I've counted correctly. I think we have 40 speakers
between online and in person. We have several public
hearings. This public hearing items this evening. I said that
at the beginning of the meeting, I do want to allow
Madam Attorney or Council Member Baker before we start
calling up speakers to speak on this item a little bit, if
that's possible. And I don't know which one of you is going
to start Council Member Baker, I'm going to pass it to you.
I, I'm going to speak on this following public comment.
Okay. And so folks, just. so folks are understanding that
the, the. Ordinance before us is for a temporary moratorium.
Some of the parameters have changed.
Sure. Yeah. I'll explain. What I explain.
Yeah I can I can explain that. Okay. Thank you.
A lot of folks came here tonight to speak on a 24 month
moratorium. That was the draft that had been presented, had
been reviewed by legal and the planning department, and was
moving forward for the vote. As of Friday. There are provisions
in the Unified Development Ordinance that these our own
regulations that have never been used because we've never
done a development moratorium that limits the length of the
maximum length of a development moratorium in our city to be 60
days without a planning Commission review. So what is
before us tonight is a 60 day moratorium, which is the first
step. And there can be there can be more to come from that.
And that's all I'll say now. I'll have more to say later.
Thank you. Are you comfortable if I
continue to share part of that? So folks understand that, that
their minute tonight is not their only opportunity to
comment on this because of what's going to happen
subsequently. Okay. So first there will be a planning. We do
not take questions or comments from the crowd. To us, it would
create chaos. Thank you. This will be your first opportunity
to speak. We are in process of working with the county. We
have a unified planning department. So city and county,
it is important that we move in alignment with our county
colleagues because it can cause issues for us. Since we have a
merged planning department. Additionally, this will have to
come before Planning Commission. Planning Commission
also allows you to speak on an item. This will also have to
come back to council down the road, so you will have another
opportunity to speak. So if you choose and you will have an
opportunity to speak in front of your county commissioners.
So with as many people as a registered, we appreciate your
all of us are very concerned about this item. This is
getting national attention. Please know that your one
minute tonight is not going to be your only opportunity to
speak. If you choose, there will be at least three other
public hearings that you will be able to register and speak
at. I'm just sharing that because I heard some folks in
the crowd being upset, and I wanted folks to really
understand the process that is before us this evening. So we
are going to stick to the one minute. Please don't jeer at
us. I'm going to call folks. I'm going to start with online
speakers, and I will let the folks who signed up for 28. I'm
just going to shift you to four automatically. You do not need
to reregister or any thing. Thank you so much for your
patience, Madam Clerk. I'm going to start with online
speakers. As soon as I can find my piece.
Of paper. The first person I have under
online speakers is Cassandra row or row.
Oh, Cassandra row. Hi. Can you hear me?
Thank you. One more quick. I need to open the public
hearing. Thank you, Madam Attorney. Let me declare this
public hearing. Open. First speaker, that we have is
Cassandra. Romero. Thank you. Good evening. You have one
minute. Hi. Thank you. Yes, I am a
Durham resident. I work at a domestic violence organization.
I organized with mothers for Cease, and I'm also an artist
and a mother. And as a mom to a young child, I'm constantly
thinking about who I'm raising him to be. And one of the
things that I hope to impart to him is that he has the
autonomy, the power, and the responsibility to think before
he takes action, especially when those actions risk harm to
himself and other people and his community and the
environment. And this is a lesson he'll have to learn over
and over again, because it's popular, it's tempting to do
it's popular or convenient, and there are billionaires and
politicians crafting propaganda that would lead them to believe
that certain things are inevitable, and that his only
choice is to get on board or be left behind. And I'm not the
only one who is responsible for teaching my son these lessons.
And our children these lessons. And and I think that we have a
unique opportunity here. And there is plenty of propaganda
that would have us believe that.
AI thank you. Next up, I have Zack Orton or
Orton online. Madam clerk, see you there. Good evening.
Can you hear me? Yes we can. Good evening. You
have one minute. Okay, thanks. I had a amazing
speech planned, but I'm gonna have to wing it a little bit.
Basically, I just wanted to speak in support of, like, the
strongest possible data center moratorium. Ideally, at least
24 months. These data centers have a ton of drawbacks for the
communities that they're built in. They use an enormous amount
of energy. They're bad for the environment. They raise like
utility costs at a time when folks are struggling to afford
rent and groceries. And this is all so that AI companies can
replace our jobs with AI, so that investors and billionaires
can become even wealthier. And I also just want to say that if
this is like an issue that you care about, you should try to
get organized in your community and like talk to your friends
and family, reach out to organizations like triangle
DSA. That's a group I'm with labor unions. Day 150. Tenant
unions like tribal tenant union. Yeah. Thanks.
Thank you so much. So now those are the only speakers I have
online. I'm going to call folks up in groups of five. So when
you hear your name, please line up over here. And then you'll
have one minute. I have Miss Mimi Kessler. Sean Caple,
Leslie. Sandra, Latasha or Letitia Gibson. And then Damien
GU. Those were the first five speakers I have.
Andrew said that she's. I've never cheated on my.
She signed up in person. And Andrew's. Oh.
I just have her for. Number three.
Okay. Good evening. Thank you for being with us. You have one
minute. Good evening. My name is Mimi
Kessler. I am for a moratorium, but 60 days is window dressing.
In reality, Durham does not need this to be a home of a
data center. With all of its impacts on environment and
excessive water usage. We don't need the economic stimulus as
it is. We are struggling to fill the vacant jobs in Durham
and housing for people moving here. The moratorium should be
for a much longer period of time. In fact, forever.
Thank you. And we're going to the faster the it will go.
Better if folks just let us call folks up. Good evening. I
don't think I think you're Lesley Sandra or did I? Did I
flip? The order I have is Sean. Oh, sorry. Sorry about that.
Yes, we are. All right. Howdy, howdy. Good evening.
Council. Good evening.
My name. Is Sean Cable, and I'm here
tonight as a member of Democratic Socialists of
America. I fully support council member Nate Baker's two
month moratorium, but it is only a first step in protecting
the city permanently. I would strongly urge the rest of
council to push for restrictions in the upcoming
Uto on what types of data centers are allowed for the
data centers that are socially necessary. We need to look at
how to regulate them effectively. We should be
looking at items like water usage limitations. We should
have limitations on zoning approval based on their
proximity to schools, places of worship, recreational centers
and residential areas. They shouldn't be allowed to use
diesel generators as backup. I know that there are
commissioners at the county level that are currently
working on a 12 month moratorium, and I would suggest
that the council continue to collaborate with them on the
new Udo to not just prevent this type of harmful zoning,
but to prevent other forms of harmful zoning in the future.
Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead. Leslie.
Sandra. Hello. I am Leslie Saint Dre.
I'm here with community, land and power as part of the stop
data centers in Durham. Coalition. We're invested in
protecting all residents from the harms of Big tech AI data
centers, dirty energy and dirty real estate, all of whom are
putting our lives, ecosystems and futures at risk. For profit
Durham residents and every living being deserved the
longest, strongest moratorium, which will give us time for the
best, loophole free, permanent protections against these
behemoths. Unless y'all are ready to implement a complete
and total ban, there's simply no way this planning department
is equipped to understand the water usage, energy use,
climate, and ecosystem impacts, displacement impacts, and how
to make legislation. With all that in mind, to protect Durham
residents in under 24 months, given that they have little to
no experience with moratoriums or legislation to protect
people and our ecosystems. Thank you. Good evening.
Good evening. Okay.
Yes. So I am for the moratorium as environmental justice
advocate with a background in energy research. I want to be
clear. What we are witnessing is not coincidental. There's a
certain alignment between utility companies such as Duke
Energy and the rapid proliferation of data centers.
Duke energy is justifying significant rate increases
based on projected energy demand. That is, at best
speculative and at worst inflated to accommodate large
scale industrial users. At the same time, there's a troubling
lack of transparency surrounding these data center
developments. We we often do not know who the end users are
or what technologies are being deployed. If these facilities
incorporate generated AI, the energy demand increases
exponentially, placing additional strain on the grid
and ultimately driving up costs for every residents. So for us
who study this issue closely, the need for moratorium is
clear. As public servants, do you have a responsibility to
act in the best interests of the community?
Thank you. Mr. GU, before you start
speaking, can I please have Stephanie Gans, Brian MacInnis,
Mustafa El Almeida. Jordan Grapple and John Hargett line
up. Good evening. Good evening. Hi, my name is
Damian GU. I haven't been here a while, so congratulations to
Councilor Matt and Councilors Fernando. I'm disappointed that
speaking times are southern. Cut down to one minute each.
And that's exactly why I don't prepare my speeches beforehand.
I know most of you on council, but I'm not sure if I have a
share that I am supposed to be a software engineer. So data
centers or dangerous AI is dangerous. Well, actually, data
centers are just bad. But it's something that we definitely
need a moratorium on until we figure out how we're going to
deal with it. 60 days is not the two years I was looking
forward, but I will take that. Thank you for consideration.
Thank you. Thank you and good.
Thank you. And folks could just state your name before you
start. Thank you. Good evening. Okay. Hi. My name is Stephanie
Gans. I'm a Durham City resident and I work for an
environmental justice nonprofit called Clean Water for North
Carolina. A moratorium provides an opportunity to pause and
make sure that data centers do not worsen the environmental
injustices, like toxic dumping and wastewater issues that we
already experience here in Durham. According to NC
statute, a moratorium duration must be reasonable and may not
exceed the time necessary to resolve the conditions that
warrant imposing the moratorium. It is very
reasonable to put in place a moratorium that uses the
maximum time that has been upheld by the Supreme Court of
32 months for our county and for our city. We need to take
the time to study this very carefully. We are in a drought
right now. North Carolina state climatologist just said climate
change is really removing the safety net from our water
supplies over the last 100 years. North Carolina's
population is more than quadrupled. And when you add
things like data centers that are not people, but machines
that are consuming water, that certainly adds to the stress
that the water systems face. Data centers are also not
paying their fair share in taxes right now. And there's
bipartisan legislation to change that. The data centers
are causing huge increases in our electric bills. Don't
contribute to that. Thank you.
Hi. My name is Brian McGinnis, and I just wanted to say in
Marine boot camp, my drill instructor told me the pen is
mightier than the sword. So you guys are a real defenders
against these threats that we have, which has been explained
as far as the tangible pollution that could come from
data centers. Also, there's the enigmatic factor that, you
know, AI is really stealing the journey part. The the work
aspect of us trying to create our thoughts through writing
essays. You know, a lot of people just, you know, AI it
and there's a lot of, you know, dealing with computers, with
call centers and things that are degrading our humanity. And
I think this is a trajectory that's really bad for us and as
a humanity. So I really implore you guys to stick up for us
against these data centers, which not only hurt our our
environment, but also I will, I think, degrade our humanity.
Thank you. Thank you. Good evening.
Good evening. My name is Mustafa Almeida. I am a Durham
resident and I am a worker, just like everybody else in
this room. And I am here today to say, not only do I support
the moratorium, but I believe that this moratorium should be
extended as long as humanly possible because these data
centers will affect every aspect of our lives. I've heard
things about drinking water tonight. It will negatively
impact that. I've heard things about homelessness. It will
negatively impact that. We are seeing the impacts on education
and the way it's impacting children. There are just a
plethora of things that I could bring up, and you will hear
probably every one of those things tonight from the other
speakers. But I just want to drive home the importance of
the fact that there is no one issue that this moratorium will
fix. It will assist in all of them. Thank you guys.
Thank you. Hey there. So yeah, I definitely am in
favor of a moratorium. I don't think two months is enough. I
don't think two years is enough. I think you guys have
said some really great things tonight. But to be blunt, if
you mend any of them, then you will fight to expand this
moratorium. If you believe in fighting growing wealth
inequality, then you will fight against these AI power centers,
which will only give money to the already wealthy while
taking away many of our jobs and increasing prices on many
other things such as our water and our electricity. If you
care about keeping our children healthy, both physically and
economically, you will prevent these AI centers from polluting
our air and water. You will prevent them from stealing our
jobs and, you know, damaging the minds of our children. And
if you care about keeping Durham beautiful, then you have
to oppose these plans because they're going to destroy our
air. They're going to give us disgusting, smoggy skylines,
disgusting drinking water, and they're going to leave our
economies destroyed, leave our people dirty and poor. You have
to fight it. Please. Thank you. Thank you. And then.
Before John Hargett, is that you? Thank you. Good evening.
Before you start speaking in, your time is not going to
start. I'm going to call the next five folks. And please
remember to state your name so I can make sure I'm tracking
where we are on the list. Rachel Perry, Andrea Casals,
Tia Hunt, Shaheed Mustafa, F2, Jagan, Jesse I don't know those
folks. Thank you. Good evening. Good evening. My name is John
Hargett. I live in North Durham. I'm here to advocate in
support of the moratorium on building new data centers in
Durham. The most obvious concern with these data centers
is the exorbitant water usage, with industry estimates showing
a single large data center can use up to a billion gallons of
water per year, or 2.7 million gallons of water a day during
peak summer heat. And we all know Durham summers are getting
hotter and hotter, with the consequences of the climate
crisis that we did not ask for. The second concern I have is on
the economics of these data centers. According to studies
at Harvard Law School and a Bloomberg analysis, after
aggregating wholesale electricity prices around the
country, electricity now costs as much as 267% more for a
single month than it did five years ago. In close location to
these data centers. Lastly, on a more personal point, I am a
local musician. Just today, we learned that 44% of music
uploaded to Spotify as AI ai generated now was 75,000 AI
generated songs uploaded a day. The AI industry is sucking the
lifeblood out of the arts. Thank you for your time.
Thank thank you. And then there was one name that I missed Tia
Hunt. So if you're Tia Hunt, go ahead and come on up to. Oh, I
didn't miss you. Okay. Good evening.
Good evening, Council members. My name is Rachel Perry. Data
centers do not provide a service to the people of Durham.
They will be a means to extract wealth from the people of
Durham and the nation as a whole. And then
disproportionately put the cost on whoever was unlucky enough
to actually build these data centers. I support a moratorium
not only for the two months, but extended indefinitely.
Right now, the AI companies that are going to be using
these don't even have a plan to make these profitable. Sam
Altman said himself that he was going to wait till AI
actualized to ask it how to make it profitable. So right
now we'd be expected to take on cost with no plan of any
return. This is not in our best interest and we need to put a
hold on this until there's some plan to make this useful. If
that was. Possible. Thank you. Good
evening. Good evening. My name is Andrea
Casals. I've been a Durham nurse since 2019, and in the
past year I got my doctorate, which means I know a lot about
research or a good bit. I'm very concerned because I don't
know if you all know, but Nurse's Week is starting on
Wednesday and I really don't care for a pizza party. I don't
care for the freebies out of restaurants. I don't even care
for a thank you. What I care for is a ban on data centers
here in Durham, and honestly, everywhere across the country I
have seen the impacts that it does on people's finances. I've
seen the impact it does on their environments and in turn,
their health. We are called the City of Medicine and if we're
called the City of medicine, we have to act. And being
preventative instead of reactionary. Once harm is done.
Yes, saying no to data centers is actually the bare minimum.
And if you're going to be protecting its constituents,
especially being health care workers, the largest sector in
Durham workers, and we have to make sure that we protect our
communities and this way and so many other ways. So I really
urge you to consider the impact it's going to have on the
health sector, the environment sector, and also our pockets,
which are our livelihoods trust nurses, not AI, not developers,
and no data centers. Thank you.
Good evening. Good evening.
Hi, my name is Tia Han and I'm a citizen of the Lumbee Tribe
of North Carolina and an organizer with seven directions
of service and indigenous led environmental justice
organization here in North Carolina. I'm here to express
my support and this current resolution, as well as a full
32 month resolution. Their moratorium for both the City of
Durham and for Durham County. There's very, very little
certainty that these developments would bring any
good to the working class people of Durham, but we know
for a fact it will line the pockets of big tech. These data
centers will pollute our land and water and aid in increasing
state surveillance on our residents. During already
concerning times. A moratorium will allow residents and
decision makers in Durham to learn more about these centers
and how they can affect us and the language of the land. Money
and ice. Water is alive, and it's all of our duties to
protect it as much as we can. Thank you.
Thank you. Good evening.
Good evening. My name is Shah Mustafa and I
1,000% support a data center moratorium, which will
hopefully become indefinite. Data centers are being sold to
us as signs of progress. Keys to the futures of our
communities. The reality, though, is that data centers
secure the exact opposite and signal further destruction to
our communities. I ask you, council members, what do we as
a community stand to benefit from data centers? The idea
that their existence would bolster jobs is a myth. They
increase property values that people allege will come about,
have helped nobody but the wealthy, and more tech related
to business is not worth the lives of your constituents.
Please vote with your community. There are other,
more urgent matters to be considered that take precedent
to any data center. We have not adequately addressed the
affordable housing crisis here. Gun violence, food insecurity
and other issues that play a role in how Durham might lead
their lives. Our futures and livelihoods depend on it. And
you. Thank you. Thank you.
Good evening. Hello. My name.
Is. Feherty Jackson.
I am calling. On the city, the county and the
joint city. County planning. Commission to vote yes on a 24
month moratorium. I won't belabor the point on what other
people said, but I do find it extremely disrespectful that we
all came here and we only get one minute to talk. And we talk
a lot about accountable and responsive government. And this
is not what was demonstrated tonight. And so, like everyone
has already said, data centers will increase our cost of
living. Duke energy is proposing another rate increase
due to anticipated demand from data centers, which need
improvements to our infrastructure, to our power
grid, and we will end up paying for that. Duke energy made $5
billion last year, but we will have to pay for the data
centers that will further increase their profits. Thank
you very much. And yes, I'll vote yes on moratorium.
Thank you. Good evening. And before you
start your comments, I'm going to call the next five speakers
up. Thank you so much. Wiley Kornbluth, Angela Bell,
Victoria Peterson, Samantha Krupp, and Annie Doran. Go
ahead. Thank you. Good evening.
All right. Good evening y'all. I'm Jesse.
I'm. Giving you the cliff notes.
Don't worry. I emailed.
You the full thing. Whether you.
Adopt our 32 month original moratorium, start and stop with
shorter ones, or pretend. Wattage limits.
Could dissuade these companies, they will use any time we give.
them to pivot to smaller scale centers, transfer ownership of
existing buildings rather than seek rezoning, and straight up
lie about the impacts of powering and cooling the
servers to get these projects through. Without public input,
it will always be in their best interest to say whatever it
gets to get you to buy in, and it will always be us who pays
the price. We don't have more time or more water to be guinea
pigs for their cash grab. It's infuriating to see how many
people with power are actively gambling with our future, to
chase the dreams of private companies that want a full time
surveillance state. If any of us is going to make it through
the next decade, we must end the narrative that this is
inevitable and stop the churn of tech to tech supremacy. Look
to places like Tennessee, Georgia and Utah. People are
already paying the price for data centers through
displacement, illness decimated environments, not to mention
literally through power bills. We must consider bans, robust
land and water conservancy, heavy penalties, regulations
and restrictions for existing infrastructure in our state, as
well as reparations for people already impacted.
Thank you. Thank you. Good evening.
Good evening. My name is. Angela Beale.
I'm on. It's it's okay. I have Wiley
next, but they can go after you up okay. Here.
It's okay. To go. Go ahead.
Okay. Good evening.
My name is Angela Bell. I am born and raised in Durham. I'm
appalled at this. That is even a discussion tonight. I am
definitely in support of the moratorium. I'm also a
registered nurse in North Carolina. As the other lady,
the amount of health issues that data centers bring into
communities people are unable to go outside of their houses
without coughing. Children aren't able to go outside and
play. I don't think this should even be a discussion. It takes
5 million gallons of water a day to keep the service cool,
because they produce so much heat. This isn't something that
Durham needs. I think it's time for each one of you all to
search your hearts and ask, are you in support of yourself?
Your pockets, corporate America or Durham residents?
Wiley corn blue. Is that person here this evening? No. Okay.
Thank you for that. Peterson. I'm Mrs. Peterson. I think if
the city council can stay here until 2:00 in the morning, they
could have given us more than one minute. And they have done
that in the past. They've been here 2:00 in the morning. I
have several concerns. First thing, Council Member Baker,
when you speak, can you please tell us where you folks are
looking at putting this facility? Also, can you make
sure when you have a meeting that the company will have a
representative? Is this something, Mr. Mayor, that you
folks are just trying to do on your own to put a data center
here, or do you already have a location that that you already
have something in mind where you would like to put the data
center, please, Mr. Baker? Councilman Baker, I want you to
speak on that. When you share some information with us,
because it is not in the information that you folks have
given us. Also, I'm concerned we have seniors in this
community. I'm a senior. My understanding these data
centers put out a whole lot of noise, put out a whole lot of
noise. I will. Be back.
To some of the other meetings. Thank you. City Council.
Thank you again for the opportunity to speak. Can I go
ahead? Okay.
Just just for the record, you you are going to find very
little daylight between what's been said and on this council.
I can confidently say that we are not putting data centers
anywhere. This is just part of the process. We do have to
bring this to the council. It's a resolution. It was presented
and we're taking it up, but we don't have a plan to do that.
So before we have the other 100 people speak, I don't want
folks to come up here yelling at council members, thinking
that we are putting a data center somewhere. Trust me when
you hear our comments. So that makes sense. But we're allowing
public comment first before you hear ours. All right. I hope no
one told you all that. That's what we're considering because
it's not all right. I miss Peterson. No, we're not we're
not going to do that. Thank you.
Go ahead. Let's go.
Ahead. Hi. My name is Samantha Cropp.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I support a data
center moratorium, and I echo the message of many here that
we need more time to do it, right. When it comes to data
centers, there are many dangerous unknowns. For
instance, we don't actually know how much water these
facilities truly use. We don't know where this water will come
from, which is especially troubling given the ongoing
drought conditions and increasing demand for water
across the triangle. We also don't know the quality of the
water that is used and discharged back to our rivers.
Data center discharge may contain biocides, heavy metals,
potentially PFAS, which are forever chemicals, and this is
not a trivial risk to communities who rely on our
rivers for drinking water. With so many unknowns, Durham does
need the time to do it right. We need the time to establish
clear, enforceable safeguards. It needs a permitting process
for high volume water users and meaningful enforcement
mechanisms. And finally, Durham needs to put long term
protections in place to ensure water resources are not
degraded. This work cannot be rushed. A 24 month moratorium
is the bare minimum needed to get the answers to build the
safeguards and protect Durham's waterways. As a soon to be
mother, I'm concerned about our future and I hope that you do
what's right for our community. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I'm going to call the next five folks up. Thank you. And then
let you speak. I have Gabriella Lott, Jade Brooks, Pablo
Friedman. Ashley Daniels and Isa Kessel Robinson. 2828 but
that's what. We. I'm sorry.
Thank you. Thank you.
And for the folks who signed up as under 28, I'm just calling
you up. As for item number four, automatically. Good
evening. Thank you, thank you, and thank
you for the opportunity to speak.
My name. Is Annie Doran. I'm sure that
many people have. spoken on. All.
These topics more. Eloquently than I can.
But I. Do.
Want to point out that one of my passions is clean drinking
water and wetlands and waterways, and one of my great
concerns is the presence of chemicals and PFAS in our
drinking water. North Carolina infamously does not have great
drinking water in many areas. There are some areas where the
water is not particularly safe to drink. I would really hate
to see that happen in Durham County. Furthermore, something
I don't think I've seen pointed out tonight is the
infrastructure that it takes for these AI data centers to
exist. What we saw up in Person County was a natural gas plant
created. And then, lo and behold, we hear that a data
center was being announced shortly afterward. So I think
we have to take into account some of these other possible
polluting factors, such as natural gas plants, that it
would take for these AI data centers to exist. Thank you so
much. Thank you. Good evening. Good
evening. My name.
Is Gabriela Lott. I'm a.
Durham resident. And I'm here to join the calls
for. multiyear moratorium. on data centers. I want to talk a
bit about what's at stake if we don't pass a moratorium. So
what's at stake for y'all as a council is simple. It's going
to shoot yourself in the foot. Data centers will undermine the
work you do on things like affordable housing, because it
will increase competition for land to build homes. And even
if you can get people into homes, there's a data center
raising their electric bills. Now they have to choose between
paying rent and paying for things like AC. It'll cancel
out the work you're doing on economic development, because
these centers offer next to no permanent jobs, and they're
contributing to widespread layoffs. Finally, it'll
squander the city's financial and environmental resources,
because data centers will rob us of tax revenue and our water
supply. What's at stake for me is personal. I'm from York
County, South Carolina, and every time I go home, I see how
a 400 acre data center is impacting my mom's
neighborhood. People talked about the noise, waking people
up out their sleep, and we know about the health costs that
come over time. So I'm asking today, pass a long and strong
moratorium and learn from places that didn't.
Thank you. Jade Brooks is next. And Pablo
Friedman, then Ashley Daniels, and then Isaac or Isaac Hessel
Robinson. That's the order I have. Thank you. Good evening.
Good evening. I'm Jade. I want.
To. Thank you all for hearing us
all out. And I. know that you. All support.
What we're talking about and that ultimately you all, I
believe, want more than the two months we're going to get
tonight. So what? I'm asking you all to keep fighting with
us behind the scenes, get into the meetings that only you are
able to sit in. Fight for the county to make us much longer
than we want. We know we need multiple years because we with
the staff to. We want you all to have the time you need to do
all that's going to be necessary to fight back in our
community against these. And I know that you all are probably
feeling that we're part of a growing resistance, not only to
data centers, of course, but also to Big tech's role over
our lives, to big oil and gases roll over our lives, and this
is part of what we do to fight back against authoritarianism,
which I know you all care about.
Thank you. Good evening. Right.
Good evening everyone. We got one minute. Maybe we
should have all been developers tonight to get 10 or 15
minutes. But we'll do with one minute. It is what it is. All
right, so I first want to begin by talking about the process to
get to this podium tonight. So some of us were waiting for 10
or 15 minutes to sign up. I think when we talk about the
processes that we're using, if we have to wait 10 or 15
minutes to sign up to speak for public comment, I think that
might be a time to move to the more analog system of the
yellow card, so we don't have to wait for 15 minutes. Thank
you, Councilmember Baker, for your supportive comments during
public comments, but we need to revisit that process. I also
want to talk tonight about how we got to this point. So my
understanding is that county staff sent over some
information to you, and that's now why it's watered down. I do
think it is interesting when the rules get enforced when it
comes to these types of issues. So for example, Lee village,
that redevelopment proposal, you don't have to do a TPO. You
know, you have to do a TPO and you still pass it up and now
you're getting sued for it. Right? When we talk about the
Udo redevelopment, right, you're threatening get sued and
then you pause it. No. When you choose to enforce the law and
when you choose to leverage the law, thank.
You. Good evening. Good evening. My name is Ashley
Daniels. I work.
At Toxic Free NC. Durham houses, five.
Contaminated public parks. And is still learning the
extent of. Contamination in Burton Creek.
We do. Not need to create another.
Mess that a future generations will be obligated to.
Clean up later. Data centers rely on the use of
PFAS substances and other toxicants to power their
servers and keep their machines cool. We do not need to add
another source of PFAS contamination to our
communities, as Duke Energy appeals to the North Carolina
Utilities Commission to extract an additional 18% in cost from
the people of North Carolina, the people in the state do not
need to give profit for another industry. We support a 32 month
moratorium. Yeah. Thank you for your time.
Thank you. And I'm going to call the next
five. I think I have five more. Sarah, Janek, Nicole, drape.
Luke. Edgar. Alex. Rico. Eva, Paige, Banach.
Thank you. Good evening. My name is Isaac Castle
Robinson. I voted in the recent Durham primary election,
partially based on my opposition to AI. I recently
graduated from a tech oriented college with a degree in
computer science, and I work. I was brought to the triangle to
work at a major tech employer. I do not know any tech oriented
people who do not virulently dislike AI, has minimal to no
positive benefits on society, and numerous negative ones,
including replacing critical thinking, mastered skills, and
skill. And yeah, those three with dependence on AI enables
mass surveillance by governments and corporations,
opens new fronts for sexual assault and harassment, and
contributes to the widening wage gap by eliminating jobs at
all skill levels. I believe that we should not in any way
subsidize or enable this incredibly dangerous
technology, because these are problems that can never be
engineered around. Thank you. Thank you.
Good evening. Good evening. My name is Sarah Yannick.
I grew up. Here and I'm also an
environmental educator. I support this moratorium.
I learned. early in. My career that we live not far
from the place that many people credit. As the birthplace of
the environmental justice movement, Warren County, where
concerned citizens protested a landfill that would bring
thousands of truckloads of carcinogenic waste into a
community that was 60% black. That protest and others after
it taught me that environmental protection and social justice
are not separate fights. Our care for the land and water are
a core part of how we care for each other. As humans. Durham's
well-being depends on the well-being of the water and
land in and around Durham. We need to be stewarding our
waterways so that we will have the water we need in coming
decades. That water is not guaranteed. It depends on our
protection, on the protection that this council must exercise
tonight. Thank you. Thank you.
Good evening. Good evening. My name is Nicole. I'm a volunteer
with Mestre Barrio volunteer run community center on Driver
Street and a resident of East Durham. I'm here to urge the
City Council to pass and extend the proposed moratorium and put
the people of Durham above tech billionaires. There are a few
issues that must be considered for future regulations. Data
centers of our electricity and our water supply. In Wisconsin
alone, two hyperscale facilities are expected to use
more energy than every household in the state
combined. More electricity means more carbon emissions,
more climate catastrophe. We cannot ignore who gets hurt
first. Developers target low income communities and black
neighborhoods, both for data centers and the fossil fuel
plants needed to power them. Long term exposure to these
fumes cause asthma, cancer, heart disease. That's not
innovation. That's environmental racism. Bloomberg
recently reported that half of all data centers for 2026 are
going to be delayed or canceled. There's clearly
community pushback across the country, and Durham will be no
different. We should have the political power in our hands.
The communities directly impacted, not the communities
of tech, not the hands of tech billionaires or corporate
politicians who will sacrifice workers, poison our communities
or destroy our future just to line their pockets, pass and
extend the moratorium. Thank you.
Good evening. Good evening, Council and
everyone else. My name is Edgar Arrieta. I'm a proud member
with the triangle branch for the party for socialism,
Liberation, and I grew up for 17 years of my life in Warren
County. So I grew up hearing these stories of the protests
and, you know, this small town in North Carolina being the
birthplace for environmental justice in our country. And,
you know, seeing in just these past few years, we have seen we
know we have data, we have real people who have suffered and
have been exploited from these data centers, from these
corporations, from these AI booms that are just eventually
going to fall because they're not turning a profit. It's all
speculative. And I've seen very recently, in fact, the
consequences of what not planning for our future can
lead to. I'm Sure that y'all.
Will do the right thing. Pastors moratorium continue to
work with the community with for the 32 month maximum that
we have. I'll wait and see it. Thank you.
Thank you. Good evening.
Hi. Good evening. My name.
Is Alex Trejo. I'm an organizer.
With Rostro Barrio in East Durham. And I'm asking the city
of Durham to vote in favor of a two year minimum data center
moratorium. When we make decisions that will drastically
change the layout of our neighborhoods and our entire
city, the people who live here deserve enough time to have a
real say in what those changes look like. Data centers consume
massive amounts of energy and carry serious, ever minor
environmental impacts, and that consumption has been shown to
raise electricity costs for residents across the country.
With the cost of living already climbing every year. Durham
families simply cannot afford another increase to our utility
bills. We've already watched Durham transform the interest
of a few and influx of private capital developers and luxury
apartments has reshaped this city. While many of the people
who built it and still work here every day are being pushed
out by the rising cost of living. This large part of the
result of hyper development that prioritizes outside
investors over the residents who call Durham home. Bringing
in data centers without a clear, community informed plan
would not only deepen that pattern, luck locking us into
long term commitments with corporations that we cannot
easily undo. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening.
Hi. My name is.
Eva and I live in Durham County. I filled out my form
incorrectly, but I hope my remarks make my position clear.
I am in favor of the longest possible moratorium on new data
centers to allow time for the development of regulations that
protect our people, our land, and our water. AI focused
hyperscale data centers can use as much power as hundreds of
thousands to millions of households. These data centers
emit huge amounts of greenhouse gases and expose nearby
communities to toxins that can cause asthma and exacerbate
heart disease. Of course, in line with the long history of
environmental racism in this country, this
disproportionately affects communities of color. In all
the places we've seen this happen so far. Some of the
largest data centers being built now cover hundreds of
acres with steel and concrete, endangering our ecosystems and
environment. And they use water with little to no transparency
about the amount taken from local water sources, typically
drawing from a single source to satisfy AI inquiries across the
world. We are currently in a drought. I hope that you will
support the moratorium for the longest amount possible, and
use that time to implement regulations to place strong
limitations and transparency requirements. Thank you.
Thank you. Those are all the speakers I
have signed up. So I'm going to declare this public hearing
closed and back before the council and back before US
colleagues for comments or questions that we may have.
Mayor Williams, do you want me to finish this out before we
take a break? Okay. Thank you. We're going to finish this
discussion item, colleagues, and then take a ten minute
break. But I'd rather finish and vote and then take a break
versus cut us off in five minutes. Anyone have Council
Member Baker? Go ahead. Thank you all for being here.
Thank you to all of the speakers who spoke so
eloquently to the dangers of hyperscale data centers. We are
here tonight because of you, because you wrote to us, you
called us for meetings. You gave us text messages and phone
calls. You made this. You put this on our agenda. You made
this as important as it as it could possibly be. And there
were a few of you who are the tip of the spear, who put pen
to paper and reached out and worked to make this happen. And
that is why we were sitting here tonight. And I want to
name a few of those groups who who have done this work,
community, land and power, I think has done incredible work,
clean water and C North Carolina Environmental Justice
Network, Merrick Moore Community Development
Corporation, and so, so many others. I can't name them all,
but shout out to to all of you, to the DSA, to PSL, everyone
who's raised your voice to this issue and how important it is.
Again, many of you expected to see a 24 month moratorium when
you came here this evening and for reasons that I, I think you
now see, we are at this point temporarily stuck with 60 day
moratorium with with more options moving forward tonight,
in keeping with the Ido, we are going to be voting on the 60
day moratorium that buys us time to bring forward more
robust language for a more robust moratorium. I will say
this. I think that it is vital that we have no less than a 24
month moratorium on hyperscale data centers in the city of
Durham. Why the enabling legislation? In chapter 162 of
the state statutes is is pretty clear about moratorium, and we
need to have a reason. Why would it be six months? Why
would it be 12 months? Why would it be 24 months or more?
We need to be able to explain why the longest moratorium in
the state of North Carolina right now is 12 months. That's
what we've typically been seeing. However, the evidence
is piling up. We see the hyperscale data centers are
having detrimental impacts in communities across the state,
but also across the United States, across the South, many
people who came here this evening have spoken to those
very eloquently. They're impacting water. They're
impacting electricity, they're impacting fiscal outcomes. They
have negative impacts on social justice issues. They are
locating themselves in places where the poorest live. They
are raising temperatures sometimes extremely close to
where they are, and they have so many other potential impacts
that we might not even know about. We do not want these
impacts in Durham. I am concerned that other
communities have not given themselves enough time to
thoroughly understand this complex issue. Yes, they can
extend their moratorium, and I do think that we're probably
going to see that. But the safe route is just to adopt
something longer that meets the moment and the need. This is a
fast evolving issue that requires time. The best
practices on this issue are constantly changing and being
updated. Durham is the first of North Carolina's major cities
to not the only one. The first one to be looking at a
moratorium and developing more robust regulations. Durham is
in the middle of a stalled Udo process, and that adds
additional complications for us in particular. And then
finally, I have spoken with experts across the state. I've
spoken with our counterparts in other communities in North
Carolina who have passed a moratorium. And because of all
those conversations that that I have had, because of all of
these reasons, I do believe that we are justified in a
minimum 24 month moratorium. So I'm disappointed, like many
folks, that that we are not approving a clean 24 months
this evening. But I see this as a first step. This is Durham's
first development moratorium. Durham is the first, not the
only but the first of of North Carolina's major communities to
do this. And when the moratorium goes into effect, I
am counting on a highly engaging and collaborative
process with the community, especially those experts who
have played a key role in putting this moratorium
forward. The technical experts to do the research, to study
the issues, to study the best practices, and ultimately to
put in place the best high quality regulations that we
possibly can. And my hope is that Durham sets the standard,
at least for North Carolina, for hyperscale data center
regulations and what they should look like.
Thank you, Council member Council Member Burris did you
have. Anything?
Good evening and thank you all so much for your advocacy and
your organizing work. As we I share the same sentence with
many of you in regards to not want a data center in our
community. Also to your point, Miss Peterson, I had the same
question initially like where's proposed data center? So I do
agree that we can message a little bit better. I recognize
that our staff has moved very swiftly to try to address these
issues. It came before us in the work session a couple of
weeks ago. So I think that moving forward, it will be
while support this, we just need to make sure we figure out
all of the legalities that we still can move forward. And if
we may provide it a little more time, possibly could have got
that clear. So while 60 days is a start, I feel it just feels
like 60s to me. And so I look forward in the immediate future
as to learning more and making sure we work closely with our
staff to learn more about what our options are, as well as
using our voices to compel our colleagues to maybe explore a
longer moratorium as well. So thank you all again for your
advocacy, and I look forward to hearing from you on additional
occasions. But I just want to also compliment our staff for
being a minimum of flexible, as you all have had to pull this
together on very short notice. Thank you. Council Member
Burris Council Member Kopac and then Council Member Rist. Oh
no. Okay. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you, Madam Mayor Pro Tem. So first of all, happy
Nurses Week starting on Wednesday. I appreciate that my
wife is also a nurse. I want to say that I am firmly in support
of the hyperscale data center moratorium, which I believe is
an important statement of our values as a community. The
environmental impacts, the impact on our water supply, the
impact on utility rates and the lack of jobs and real community
benefits are clear. I appreciate the most important
source of renewable energy here this evening, which is all of
you who showed up to advocate, and I want to thank you all as
individuals as well as organizations such as song,
community, Land and Power, North Carolina Environmental
Justice Network, and many others that came together in
coalition to advocate this evening. This has moved very
quickly, and that's because of the urgency and interest most
much quicker than most agenda items that come before this
council. And so I certainly understand the reasons for
shifting to the 60 day pause at this time while we work with
the county and stay in compliance with our Udo to make
sure that we put in place effective regulations, which I
intend on supporting the 24 month moratorium. When it comes
back before us, I'll just note that as the mayor pro tem said,
there are other opportunities for advocacy. And economically
speaking, the county is where we would likely see a
hyperscale data center attempt to locate. So I encourage you
to bring the energy to the county during the public
hearing, just as you have here. And I look forward to a joint
unified approach to addressing this issue for our great city.
Thank you. Thank you.
Councilmember present. Yeah, I just want I know it's a long
meeting. I just want to echo the comments of my colleagues,
want to appreciate all the folks here who've spoken and
the organizers. I will support this enthusiastically. So thank
you for being here. Thank you. Mayor Williams.
Yeah, thank you. Just briefly, I like I said earlier, I think
everyone on on this council is is in support of this. I am
probably on one of the very few occasions, I don't know, I
might be a bit more aggressive on this than you. Council
Member Baker. I think that, you know, Durham just needs to
indefinitely have a moratorium on megawatt data centers. I
will say that there is some language that's being worked on
at the county level, as well as the state level, and I want to
talk a little bit just because I saw some familiar faces in
here tonight. And and I just want to appreciate their
concern. On a recent incident, something that a mayor does is
we listen to our community, and then we go and speak on behalf
of our community. And one thing you're going to find me doing
is you're going to find me trying to find the best options
forward. I understand that people use data centers. I
understand when you pick up your phone. This phone is tied
to a data center somewhere. I understand I'm not going to not
be in reality, but I also want to be very vocal, which in
regards to land that we have here in Durham, we don't have
the space for it, nor do we want that in here. We have a
housing crunch as it is already, and if these data
centers and the people who own them are wealthy enough to have
them, then they're wealthy enough to build infrastructure
in areas where it's needed. But Durham is not the place for it.
I've been very clear about that, but you're going to hear
me talk to them. You're going to hear me try and figure out
what solutions they can bring. And right now, there is no
federal guidance nor state guidance. And so we're kind of
left out here on our own right now. And and I have spoken to
Duke Energy and others. And, you know, I'm going to try and
seek solutions with them. That's what we do. We we speak
to people. We try to find solutions that we speak on
behalf of the interests of our community. If you haven't paid
attention, pay attention to Northern Virginia, northern
Virginia wanted data centers. They invited a man and they
enjoyed the revenue that they brought in. And now they are
humming machines behind their homes. It is very uncomfortable
living condition. And it's a high populous area. So I know
the data centers are going to go up somewhere. I know that
they're going to go, they're going to they're going to
build. I know that, but I think that until we get some clear
guidance around where it's most appropriate and therefore we
have to make sure that we are getting ahead of it. While
there is no guidance, we can put our own guidance. There.
I've been very clear this poor use of land is low number of
jobs, and there are other creative ways that we can
generate sales tax revenue. I invite you to support our small
businesses. I invite you, Durham, a still majority
locally owned. So therefore a higher return on the dollar
stays local when you shop local we can generate sales taxes
that way rather than being bringing a large establishments
like this into the area. Again, the federal and state levels
just don't have the guidance for us. But I will say I want
to shout out State Representative Renata Austin.
She actually has a bill that she's sponsoring that puts some
some type of language and some some guidance and structure
around the use of data centers across the entire state. So I
would appreciate having a little more time to work with
our county colleagues and our state colleagues. I actually
would like to send this back and, and work on the indefinite
one and have more of a tiered approach that that addresses us
here locally. If not, we'll do this for 60 days. But I will
say that I, I also may entertain the idea of a, of a
task force where we can work with our county and state
colleagues. So, colleagues, I may reach out to you all about
that as well. Just be on the lookout that that way we can
potentially have some vertical alignment and we pass it all at
the same time. If you all would be interested in that. Okay,
that'll be all my comments. Mayor Pro Tem.
Miss Benjamin will comment. This is for staff. I don't know
if the city manager others can address this. We've been
getting some comments from residents that that there's I
know this has been a fast moving topic and that there are
different, potentially different versions of the
resolution online on the agenda, whatever. So we'll make
clear that the agenda that we're or the resolution we're
voting on is the one that's in our packet tonight, regardless
of what else may be on different sort of online
agendas. It did change.
Yeah. Respectfully, I'm going to defer to the city attorney
because the attorney's office manager had them for us. Thank
you. Thank you, Mr. Manager. Thank
you. Councilmember. What you're voting on now is actually an
ordinance, not the resolution. You've already passed and
adopted. The resolution, which was to set this public hearing.
The ordinance that's before you right now has been modified. It
originally was in the agenda process for 24 months. And
again, as we discovered, there's actually a limitation
in the audio that if we were going to adopt a 24 month
resolution, it had to first 24 month moratorium. I'm sorry, it
had to first have gone through the Planning Commission, and we
didn't have time to do that before this evening. The other
issue is that we had gotten word we do have a joint studio
and a joint planning and development department that we
share with Durham County, and we had gotten word that the
county is also looking at this issue. And it's really, really
important that the two jurisdictions be aligned
because of that joint structure. It would be really
problematic for the planning and Development department to
administer something. If the city were to adopt one standard
and the county adopt a completely different standard.
So I think it's really important to see if the county
wants to act in this space. I don't know that we've
definitively heard as yet, but also, if they do want to act in
that space, it's pretty important that the two
jurisdictions try to align their their approach.
I appreciate that additional information. And again, I'm
sorry that ordinance right. Not not resolution, but just want
to make sure that the ordinance we're voting on is the one
that's in our packet. Correct. Regardless of what else. Yeah.
That's what everyone. Yeah. Correct.
Yes. And I do also want to clarify, there have been lots
of statements about wanting a 24 month. There have been some
statements made this evening about 32 months. It's also
important to recognize that the Durham Unified Development
Ordinance limits moratorium for development purposes to one
year. That's our own locally adopted legislation.
Thank you. Colleagues, is there anyone else, any comment or
questions? Yeah, just real quick. I just
want to reiterate we we don't even have to land for this. So
but the importance of the importance of make mass
megawatt data centers, we don't want any particular land that
does or structures that do exist to be converted. That's
really important as well. But I will say I spoke with some
colleagues at the county and they are moving on this as
well. I will say I also would like us to be as consistent as
possible on this, working with the county and our state
colleagues. So we're if we're passing the ordinance tonight,
do know that modifications will come so that we can be on the
same page with them. Thank you. I just want to
appreciate everyone who spoke. I want to also lift up Council
Member Baker. I appreciate you listing some of the the groups,
some of the folks that had reached out to us or
Southerners on new ground, community, land and power,
clean water and see more CDC sound rivers, mother's first
ceasefire, the Durham Art Guild, Carolina Jews for
justice, Durham, Orange County Juice for Jewish Voices for
peace, triangle, NC moms, Clean Moms, Clean Air Force, NC, and
the environmental NC Environmental Justice Network.
So I know that there's been a lot of folks working on this in
this space, including some other groups that were named
this evening when they spoke. I just want to share with folks
here. We don't always agree on development, on the status, but
a data center is not housing a data center at the scale that
we're talking about. This is not to support local hospitals
health care. We know that in some cases, we have to have
those that we are. Quite frankly, we already have some
of those there in the park. Do hospital has some of these
things. They've been here. That's not what we're talking
about this evening. And I know that's what many of you said,
and that's what your comments referenced. I just really want
to lift up that housing and data centers and AI and big
tech and defense companies, it's not the same. And we
really do need to have nuanced conversations on what some of
these things are and what the threats are to our communities,
because they are real threats and they are legitimate
threats. And so there was never a question. I know I've had
some meetings with some community groups. I've had some
email exchanges. It was never a doubt in my mind that there
wasn't going to be unanimous support for something like this
on this council. It's the same way that there's never a doubt
in my mind on any single council I've ever served on.
This is my third mayor, this is my ninth budget. You don't
fight about LGBTQ rights in Durham when you're an elected
official. You don't fight. If whether you're pro-life or
pro-choice, you're pro-choice. In this community, you do not
fight around immigration and standing up for our neighbors.
That's who you have to be to serve in any capacity. In
Durham County. That's the expectation of almost every
single resident I've ever encountered. And that means
it's a blessing that we live in that type of community. But
this isn't a fight. This is an acknowledgement and affirmation
of what community's already asked for. We have a lot of
work to do before us around what the county is going to do,
what we can do, what the opportunities are, and the LDC,
the upcoming Udo around a moratorium. There's right, we
have a lot of questions, but I believe in our legal staff.
Several years ago, I think when HB 153 sunset, madam attorney,
we had to work around non-discrimination ordinance
language for housing and jobs for our queer community, and we
had to work with the county because we wanted unified
language that the county and the city adopted at the same
time. And we passed that language. And it was unanimous
on both both boards, and it was a different county
commissioners and different city council members that are
before you. So I just am sharing that as an example of
the community you live in, the elected officials that you have
and the neighbors that you have, and in this moment when
we are fighting on so many fronts, this is hopefully not
one that we're going to have to fight with. Residents and
electeds. We're not always going to see eye to eye on some
other things. We're going to fight here in a couple of cases
and that's fine. But this is not one of those moments. This
is where this is where I can feel deep pride. I know that we
are unified and know that the billionaires, and thankfully we
don't really have any live here, aren't going to keep stealing
our future from us. So I look forward to working with
colleagues. Thank you, Councilmember Baker, for
introducing this and for community groups for bringing
it forward. And I will look forward to working with our
county commissioners and making sure that we get this right.
Mayor Pro Tem. Yes, just I do have a favor to ask of, since
there was such an organizing tonight, I'm going to ask you
all for a favor. Please pay attention to what's happening
at the state level as well. I think many of you know I'm from
Halifax County, and I had to step in and help out from a
distance, but there was literally language at the state
potentially authorizing a single county to infringe on
three other counties. I think someone said they were from
Warren County and someone from the another tribe or whatever,
but literally Franklin County was going to be able to take
land with or without consent from Warren Vance and Halifax
to allow them to utilize their water, utilize their land and
their grid for this. So please, Durham, is your low hanging
fruit. As a matter of fact, in many cases, and like this one
where the fruit has already fallen off the tree, we're
going to have to have we have to climb higher up the tree
because there are some things going across going on across
the state. But you're organizing powers can really be
useful. It's this is easy in Durham, but there are some
folks across the state that really need our support. And
and personally, I'm asking for my family. We could use some of
this organizing power and some other parts. Thank you.
Thank you. And with that, the motion in front of us is to
adopt a resolution to set a public hearing, to impose a
temporary moratorium on development approvals for data
centers, cryptocurrency mining operations, and any use. Madam
Mayor Pro tem. Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry. We're on item four.
Oh. Good Lord, thank you. That's
what we did earlier. Excuse me. To adopt. So the motion before
us is to adopt an ordinance imposing a temporary 60 day
moratorium on development approvals for data centers,
cryptocurrency mining operations, and any use
associated with data center processing facilities within
the city of Durham. Pursuant to 160-107. Could I please get a
motion. so moved? Second, I have a motion and a second.
Madam clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please
close the vote? Motion passes.
Unanimously. Thank you. Colleagues, we are
on break for the next ten minutes.
Okay. I came to the.
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this web address. I think we're going to. I think
we're going to get started. You're going to keep running.
The game right? I think so. Ladies and gentlemen.
Colleagues, I need colleagues back on the dais. Let's go. And
I'm going to go ahead and get us started because we are
already at quorum. I do want to announce that the canes game is
tied up for those who are paying attention. Third period
were tied up two, two. Count. Council Member Burris is
picking on me. I also never watched a hockey game until my
kid started playing hockey. So. I think the next item. Sorry,
y'all give me a second. I'm going to keep us going and
we'll wait. Okay, the next item I have is a public hearing and
economic development incentive agreement with AMEC Properties,
Inc.. We have a public hearing, so I'm going to go ahead and
do. Oh, we have staff here. I'm going to hear the staff report
and then declare the public hearing open.
Good evening. Madam Pro.
Tem and members of council. My name is Chris Dickey with the
Office of Economic and Workforce Development. Before
you as an item to consider approval of a proposed
agreement between the City of Durham and Massey Properties
Incorporated. When a family opened, Rosellas Professional
Complex in the late 1980s, one of the first tenants was a
daycare center, reflecting their deep commitment to care
and community. Over the years, the complex expanded to include
a diverse mix of businesses, including a salon, barber shop,
insurance agency, and a communication store offering
phones, Wi-Fi products, and early access to technology.
Well before such resources, well before such resources were
widely available in the neighborhood. Now, under second
generation leadership, the Agency Properties Incorporated
plans to renovate a 5800 square foot building to enhance curb
appeal and accessibility and upgrade building security. This
renovation and redevelopment project will promote the
continued revitalization and economic development and
economic vitality of the targeted community development
area along the Fayetteville Street corridor. Upon the
completion of a project expected to stimulate new
business development and stabilize existing businesses
within the building, the. The proposed project will attract
$849,000 in private investment, with 150,000 city funding
producing approximately a 5.6 ratio to one of private to
public funding. Staff endorses this project, which would be an
asset in promoting the vitality of traditionally underutilized
businesses, including minority and women owned businesses
along the Fayetteville Street Commercial Court. The project.
The project directly addresses a major goal of the cities of
Durham's strategic plan and advancing shared economic
prosperity, and it furthers the objective of the Office of
Economic Development, shared Economic Development Seed
Initiative, which supports an ecosystem of strategies,
business stabilization, business succession planning,
and supports the growth and expansion of Durham's legacy
business. The Office of Economic Development is both a
collaborator and funding partner, and building key
partnerships that increase technical assistance capacity
in Durham small business ecosystem and help to preserve
wealth among minority owned legacy business as well as
historically underserved residents working at local
businesses. Thank you. You've heard the
report from staff. The public hearing is now open. First,
council colleagues, do we have any questions or comments?
Okay. So I'm going to go ahead and invite, I guess, the
applicant. Madam clerk, would that be approved? No. Okay.
Just any speakers. It's.
Madam mayor pro tem, it's not a rezoning. Public hearing. So
the staff report was presenting the project, I believe. Unless.
Oh, well, the property owners here.
Good evening. Good evening.
How much time do you think you need?
Just two. Minutes left.
Perfect. Thank you.
Hi. My name.
Is Merrick Roma Steele. I'm here to speak about the
location. For over four. Decades.
My mother, Marcella professional. My mother started
Marcel's professional complex. The business located at 2919
Fayetteville Street. It has been more than just a location.
It's been a steady presence in the Durham community since
1984. Through the changing times, economic shifts and
neighborhood transitions transitioning, we have remained
committed to serving our community and customers and
supporting the local family, families and contributing to
the vitality of this historical corridor. This grant is just
not an investment in a building. It is an investment
in the legacy, stability and future. A growth of our
community. Our business has demonstrated resilience,
dedication for over 40 years. We've created jobs, provided
consistency and services and other business growth, build
relationships with spans of generations. Many of your
customers are not just clients, they're neighbors who trust us.
For decades. With this funding, we were strengthen our ability
to continue the services in the community by improving our
space, expanding our offering, and ensuring that we will
remain reliable and welcoming place for years to come. The
support will allow us to adopt a modern, challenging, modern,
challenging challenges while preserving the history and the
character that makes our business unique. We are not
starting from scratch. We are building on a foundation, a
foundation rooted in commitment, preservation,
community impact. This grant will help us ensure that what
what was began in 1984 continues and thrive well into
the future and benefit not just only our businesses, but the
entire Durham community. Thank you for considering our
application. Thank you so much, Madam Clerk.
I have one online speaker. Oh, and you're here. Go ahead.
Could you just please state your name for the.
Record? Good afternoon.
Council mayor. City manager.
My name is Tanya Taylor Dingell. My consulting team is
MQ Nicole Global. And we've been working with the Office of
Economic and Workforce Development on various small
business community projects. And so I'm here to support
Mariko Steele and her projects. In 2020, the Office of Economic
and Workforce Development worked with started working
with legacy businesses in Durham. In 2024. They continued
on with small business, helping the small business ecosystem by
working with businesses that are along the Fayetteville
Street corridor. Mariko still fits into almost every
demographic of all those programs and iterations. She
represents legacy businesses. She represents Fayetteville
Street, she represents small business. She represents legacy
commercial property ownership. And I'm sure I could find a few
more pockets of that she would represent as well. She is a
shining example of what the technical support that this
city is offering to businesses and property owners, and what
it can do for the city. Her property, as you've read in her
application, has been in business supporting
Fayetteville Street community for over five decades. When you
visit Mariko or sorry, Marcellus Professional Suites,
which is a property that her mother, Marcella Steele,
started, you're also going to be meeting multiple other
business owners who have been given a chance, and that's
really what they are given. They're just given a chance.
How did they how are they receiving a chance? Her rents
are not exactly market rate. Now that would make any
economist or consultant cringe. But what it does is that it has
created loyal tenancies. It's created almost a business
incubator. Even if she's not officially one, a business hub
and even a microeconomic center along the Fayetteville Street
corridor. When my team interviewed her to assist her
with her application, all she could think about was the
possibilities. And those are the reasons why you should
assist her in trying to modernize her space.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Madam Clerk.
I don't have any other speakers signed up. Is there anyone here
who would like to speak on item number 20? Okay. Seeing no one
signed up, this public hearing is now closed. And before the
council. Council members, do we have any comments or questions
for staff or the applicant? Go ahead. Council Member Rist.
Thanks. Mayor Pro Tem. Yeah, I think this is now appreciate
Mr. Dickey's presentation. I think the second incentive
grant has come before the council since I've been on the
council, I have been on record both here in the council, but
also in previous my professional life, being very
cautious about the use of public dollars to incentivize
private businesses. So I think there's for me, there's a high
bar. I love the story of the business owners here. I love
the story of legacy businesses. I love the Fable Street
corridor. We're clearly, as a city investing in the
Fayetteville Street corridor. So I just want to for staff, I
just want to get a better sense of we could invest in a lot of
businesses on the Fayetteville Street corridor, I imagine.
Right. So can you give me a sense, Mr. Dickey, of like,
what's our budget like? Like why why this business? Why not
others? What's our what's the larger plan here? What's the
strategic sort of, sort of orientation of the city
towards? Certainly the Fayetteville Street quarter and
these kind of incentive grants. Well.
I think as it says, since 2020, council has graciously given
the office of Economic Workforce the dollars to
support legacy business through technical assistance. And
throughout the years, we have a neighborhood revitalization
grant as well. Fayetteville Street is a major commercial
corridor that City Council supports. This business sits
along Fayetteville Street corridor. Matter of fact, it's
in the very trying area. Difficult to for business
development along that particular area. And a lot of
businesses that are currently operating in what what we can
consider to her a business incubator are paying under
market share at that particular point. She wants to spruce up
the place along with some of the other city activities that
are going to go on to spruce up the activities so that she
still could be a stabilizing force in that particular
community. This particular project meets the tenets of the
neighborhood revitalization, meaning what it's doing is
aesthetically approving the parents along that particular
corridor. And not only that, we're still supporting a legacy
businesses. What in reference to what the strategic plan is
asking us to do? You know, again, I appreciate
all that. I think that is true. I guess what I'm trying to get
a sense of is so what is what's the annual budget at WD for
supporting these kind of grants for in this case this is for.
So in this particular case here we could get anywhere between
300,300, 300, $350,000 out of neighborhood revitalization
program to support a project such as this..
Annually, $350,000 annually. Yeah.
23 and again 350. So I I've been careful I'm
cautious about whether it's a large incentive grant for big
corporate employees or jobs or corporate employees or small
ones. I do want to and I appreciate Mister Gundy here as
well. I know that our policy also says that we that there's
an evaluation criteria that includes a kind of but for
financial analysis. So can you give me a sense of like but for
this grant, what would not have happened that I want to make
again, clear, because we have limited public dollars. Right.
So what's the why the win here. What's what's the because
there's you know, there's also an old adage that, you know,
you've heard the old Lay's potato chips. It's hard to eat
just one. Right. And there's also the reverse adages like
for incentives, there's the old it's hard to give away just
one. Right. So once we give away 1 to 1 business, like how
do we again, what's the strategic sort of orientation.
How do we what is the but for analysis we've done here that
indicates for this business but for our incentive this
investment wouldn't happen. Yeah I appreciate the question.
And good evening, Joshua Gunn Office of Economic and
Workforce Development. This is another example of a property
owner who has assembled their own resources right to the
maximum amount of the resources that they can assemble. And
then that but for is it's going to take just a little bit more
to get to the finish line in terms of this project. Right.
It's complex. It's an older property. There's been a lot of
technical assistance with our department and NMCB working
with them to get them to this point and that, but for is the
the incentive amount before you today to get the property up to
the modernization that they're looking to get to.
And is that I mean does that but for was that like sort of
spreadsheet or is that sort of more of like a feel like what
is that what does that analysis look like?
The analysis. So one of the things that in Chris, please
feel free to jump in here, but I'll do my best here. One of
the things that we have taken Miss Steele through is the
process of the planning process. The design process.
What is what is the actual project going to look like?
What are you going to need for this thing to solve for what is
a significant challenge in the corridor? Right. So I don't
know if you know exactly where this is, but this is at the
intersection of the American Tobacco Trail and the
Fayetteville Street corridor. This is a part of that
particularly challenged part of that corridor. And so prior to
bringing this incentive before the council, we helped do a
deep analysis of what was possible with the property,
what it would look like, and then what it would cost. Miss
Steele assembled the capital stack that she could. And the
gap that we found is what we put before council today for
public support. In partnership with her significant private
investment. Gotcha. Thanks. Yeah. No, I
think, you know, reading the literature on incentives,
right. Some of the best folks in the country to look at this
like, it's not often it's hard to make the case, but but where
you can make the case is when an incentive does bring
economic activity to an area that might not receive that. So
I appreciate that. I mean, I think this is a really
compelling one. But again, I just want to make sure we're
clear as a city with a with a tight budget, if we're giving
away public dollars to private businesses, I want to make sure
that we're very strategic about how we invest those dollars.
But again, I think in this case with the neighborhood that
needs that kind of investment, I can I think it does pass my
threshold. So thank you. Thank you.
Thank you, Councilmember. Mayor Williams.
Council Member Burris I'll be brief in my remarks. I'm not
going to come short. Rapid fire. I'm excited to support a
legacy business considering what's happened in that quarter
right now and what these businesses have to endure. As
you said, this is right there, I believe the intersection,
Fayetteville Road and pilot. And so if you drive down at any
point in a day, you will see what happens on that trail. And
so I can only imagine that at some point that may be a
deterrent from any business owners in that community
because of what it looks like. So I appreciate and I
appreciate the packet in terms of how we look for support.
This private business. But however they are, they will
generate tax revenue and commercial dollars. It's going
to help essentially benefit our entire community. So I look
forward to seeing projects of this nature will make sure that
the legacy owners, as that corridor is changing, they
still have some skin in the game. If they are able to
provide for their families for generations. Thank you all so
much for your work. Thank you.
Thank you. Council Member Burris mayor Williams.
I should have gone before her. Basically, I was going to say
the same thing for a community like Durham who believe so much
inequity. First, I want to appreciate Council Member
Burris, you know, really focus on this. You've been very
consistent on it, and I appreciate you. You know,
leaning in and and but also, you know, making way when, when
you say it's compelling enough. But Durham believes in equity.
And this has been one of the most divested communities in
our city's history. The houses along this corridor were built
by carpentry students at Hillside High School and nCCU
way before I was born. This has always been a community that's
been invested within itself, and I look at it this way two
things can happen. Investment can happen from within the
community, or investment can happen to the community.
Usually when investment happens to the community, the people in
it are placed out. And this is an opportunity for us to not
necessarily gentrify, but revitalize and and based on
Durham's rich history and what's happening in the past,
there are some parts of the city where we owe some form of
repair. And I think this is an opportunity to do that. So I
look forward to supporting it. Any other comments or questions?
Oh, sorry. Council Member Kopac.
Yes. Thank you. Just say very briefly that I'm glad we have
this neighborhood revitalization program. I
appreciate council member. Careful. I toward use of public
dollars and use of incentives. I'll just echo my colleagues
Council Member Burris and the mayor saying that I, I do
believe that investment in this quarter is so critical and so
necessary and so appropriate. And so I appreciate your due
diligence in evaluating this. The applicant's long term
investment in our community in this quarter. And there
willingness to to to reinvest in this really important part
of, of of, of our city. And so I look forward to supporting
it. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member
Kopac. Unless I have any other questions or comments, the
motion before us is to authorize the city manager to
execute an economic development agreement with AMEC properties,
or Amoc properties, Inc., in an amount not to exceed $150,000
for building renovation project at 2919 Fayetteville Street,
Durham, NC. So.
So move. Thank you. Second, thank you.
I have a motion and a second. Madam clerk, could you please
open the vote? Could you please close the vote?
Motion passes unanimously. Thank you.
Congratulations. Congratulations.
I like when we get to do happy things like that. Our next.
The rest of the evening is going to be just like that.
It's going to be. Amazing. The next item.
Mayor Williams, do you want me to keep going?
Yeah. Keep going. Okay.
Item number 21. Next agenda item is a public hearing and
economic development incentive agreement with cocoa Fro, LLC.
Could l, Mr. Dickey? Good to see you. I'll take our staff
report. Madam Pro Tem members of
council. My name is Chris Dickey with the Office of
Economic and Workforce Development. Before you as an
item and consider approval of proposed economic development
agreement between the City of Durham and Cocoa Pro LLC. Cocoa
Pro LLC is now preparing for his next phase, establishing a
permanent home at 104 1004 Morning Glory Avenue in Durham,
North Carolina. This 1300 square foot space will serve as
a production facility and public facing tasting room,
bringing in manufacturing, retail and community engagement
under one roof. To make this possible, the building requires
comprehensive rehabilitation plan. Improvements include
structural repairs, upgraded plumbing and electrical systems
to support commercial commercial equipment, fire
safety enhancements, and the installation of a fully
compliant commercial kitchen. Exterior improvements will
restore the building's presence, creating a clean,
well lit and welcoming environment. This project
represents a tangible investment in a local economic
growth and neighborhood revitalization. By activating a
currently underused property, it will create stable
employment opportunities, contribute to local tax base,
and help shift the trajectory of the surrounding corridor. A.
Thriving storefronts signal possibilities. They attract
foot traffic, reduce vacancies and encourage additional
business development by transforming this site into a
vibrant, professionally operated facility. Cocoa LLC
aims to demonstrate what is possible, helping to catalyze
further investment in long term community stability. The
proposed project will attract $593,000 in private investment,
with 150,000 $115,000 in city funding, producing
approximately 5.16 to 1% private to public funding
ratio. A major priority of the City of Durham is increasing
and strengthen the economic stability of the city. The
proposed project, when completed, will be a key step
in implementing the Neighborhood Assessment plan
that was approved by the City Council. This assessment plan
calls for the renovation of blighted and underutilized
buildings as a means of attracting private capital
investments to promote business development and stabilization
in the City of Durham. Designated Community
Development Area. The opportunity to attract this
type of capital investment is somewhat challenging, since
it's considered high risk for successful economic
development. The project will serve as a catalyst to attract
additional business and development projects to this
area. Staff endorses this project, which align with the
goals and objectives of the Neighborhood Ization Grant,
incentive program. Thank you. I'm going to declare
this public hearing open. Now that we've heard the staff's
report. Colleagues, before, I invite any speakers. Do you
have any questions or comments for staff? Okay. Go ahead.
Council Member Rist. Mr. Dickey, I just have a
question about the location here. And this just came up in
a conversation with the applicant. So this is in the
Goose Creek outfall area, right? Correct. And you've
mentioned sort of plumbing improvements, commercial
kitchen. So is is is this project in any way? I know
we've sort of like we're now trying to deal with the
capacity of the Goose Creek area. Is this is this a y'all
looked with planning to make sure that this is compliant
with given our new sort of how we're proceeding with the sort
of development approvals in the Goose Creek outflow area. If
the manager knows as well. But I just want to make sure we're
there. We're not sort of running afoul of those
restrictions that are in place right now, is we address a
sewer capacity. Can you hold hold on one
second, please? Yeah. We haven't discussed that
with planning. We can do that and report back as it relates
to the plan. So yeah, we don't we don't we don't have an
answer for that. Okay.
Excuse me. What? I'm sorry.
Excuse me. What? I do have an answer for is what our office
has been asked to do here. And that is a blighted building
that has been blighted for about 3 or 4, about 3 or 4
years. It was a church at one time, a coffee shop at one
time. And if you go behind Morning Glory, the morning
glory Avenue in that particular area, it's right behind Golden
Belt. If you look in that particular area, there's half
$1 million houses that are lined up there. But what you
see on the corner, there is a house that's currently on for
sale that's blighted. The next piece of property over is this
particular property which has been sitting there. And then
there's a new property that's currently going through zoning
right now. And then the next property is a property that was
just recently redeveloped by Cor, which is a, a lounge that
has opened in the past year. So there's been some strategic
things happening along that corridor. And, and we just
believe in reference to anything that's in our
community development area that's going to bring
production. We have an individual who lives in Durham
who's moving his business from Hillsboro, who's going to
upgrade that building. And I believe and we believe over the
years will create jobs. Although this is not a job
creator initially, but what we are doing is bringing some
stabilization to this neighborhood and getting ready,
getting rid of an eyesore that currently exists there. And
that's the purpose of the neighborhood violation.
Yes. So again, again, understand all that, appreciate
that sort of the business itself and just appreciate the,
the the neighborhood and efforts to sort of revitalize
the neighborhood. I just I want to make sure that if we're
making an investment again, that this is something that can
take place in the next couple of years as we're dealing with
sewer and we do have planning staff here, I would like to
know, get some sense of like, what's the impact of this
potential business or how it impacts the sort of the the
Goose Creek outfall issue we have with sewer capacity.
Good evening. So as. Director Gunn mentioned, we
haven't had a chance. To look at this together. As
you know, water. Management is.
Looking closely. At these and finding.
Ways to permit projects. As long.
As there. Is some nominal increase.
They the. You've been.
Seeing utility. Extension agreements come
through. Fairly quickly now. So there
are other ways that improvements can be made in
terms of tying into adjacent areas, etc.. So I can't speak
for water management and the specifics of this site, but I
can tell you that it is something that we will look at
with them. If I may. Council Member Rist
thanks staff for providing the context, but my read of the
process. So first of all, we don't have a clear answer for
you tonight. We'll get one. My read of the project is a as a
rehabilitation, as it is likely under the threshold of anything
that would trigger any concerns in the Goose Creek basin. But
we will get information for Council and clarify that going
forward. My recommendation would be for council to go
ahead and consider the item tonight and give us your
direction. Should we find that there's anything that that
prevents this project from moving forward, be happy to
notify that Council and make this contingent on that. But
that'd be my recommendation this evening.
Thank you. Okay. I think Mayor Williams Council Member Burris
Council Member Baker. Yeah, that was going to be my
comment. To my understanding, based on prior matters. If this
was adding additional needs or needing more capacity than
what's already allotted, and it would not, but I is this the
the little white church looking thing where a coffee shop was
once so so it was so it had functioning plumbing and that
was that was just a few years ago. And I mean, are you
expanding to the port was going to be like some big business,
more capacity. It's still going to be it's still the it's still
going to be the same. I guess what I'm asking is.
Is similar, similar usage thresholds. Yes.
Yeah. So I guess that's the information we'll need to get
back to my understanding, there's been I don't want to
say a one for one, but the nominal usage or or increases
or just. Yeah, the nominal increases if needed that then I
think it would be fine. But that's what I just wanted.
Clarity on that. Thank you. Thank you. Council
Member Burris. Okay, I just have a quick
question in the packet we received. Is there any
particular reason why the grant application is empty? It's like
nothing in there at all. Well, it's just blank. It's just
eight pages of like nothing.. That should not be. That was in
an oversight. That was. No, this one is great.
You see, it's nothing in here. It's empty.
And there's only a narrative. Yeah. The text didn't copy over.
Yeah. This is the application here. I don't know.
What the application is. Okay. Yeah, the form didn't
copy over. Council Member Burris. Did you
have any other questions? No. Well, I guess, like, just
to be, as we've gone through before, you know, about
applications and everything being there, I want to make
sure, because I did have a chance to meet the applicant
earlier, and I expressed my concerns in regards to the time
it would take for you to actually hire folks. We know
this community is definitely undergoing changes. There's
some commercial businesses there, but if you go on to
other side of the street, there's a lot of activity as
well. And so I believe you said that you guys will be hiring
like 6 to 8 people within the next two years or so. And so
I'm just trying to make sure that the city is getting there.
The same to my colleague Council Member Rist. If we are
preparing our staff for a tough budget year, we want to make
sure we're allocating dollars in a way that gives us the
biggest bang for our buck. And so having a critical piece of
information that is missing gives me a little bit of pause
in terms of like, I do see the, the the business project
narrative, but I don't have that other information. So that
is where I'm looking at right now.
Thank you. Council Member Burris Council Member Baker.
Yeah, I appreciate all the comments of my, my colleagues
and Council Member Burris. Thank you for your questions on
both of these items. Definitely have some some heartburn
myself. I guess I would just say that moving forward I would
be, you know, comfortable, more comfortable with tightening up
the vision and the policies that are that are supporting
these. And then also just making sure that departments
are talking to each other and notifying one another, one
another so that they can identify any of these kind of
big, bigger issues. Thank you. Thank you. This is a public
hearing. I don't have anyone signed up to speak, but I don't
know if the property owner of anyone else wanted to speak.
Thank you. Go ahead. Good evening, Mr. Freeland.
Good evening. Mayor Pro Tem and mayor.
City council. Members.
Your name is up. There's a.
Button. Like, kind of know the to the right.
Of to the right of the. Oh, here he comes.
Okay. Just your right hand under it up there. There she
is. I have to press the button. Let
me help you out here. We did. look at that. Except I set my
own time limit. Okay.
No, I was about to ask. You make the podium taller.
Thank you. Awesome. Mr.. Mr. Freeland, how much
time do you believe you need? Oh.
Just 90s will be plenty. Perfect. Thank you.
Can you please put two minutes on the clock?
I mean. Madam Clerk. Greetings. My name is Pierce
Freeland. My wife and I started a freeze dried ice cream
company called Cocoa Fro last year, based out of
Hillsborough, North Carolina, and quickly outgrew the
commercial kitchen, the Piedmont food processing center
where we were renting and started looking for a place to
expand. And we want to serve ice cream. We want to create
living wage jobs and build manufacturing infrastructure in
a historically underinvested area of East Durham. And we
can't do that without support from the city. We don't want to
move to Oxford or Morrisville or Raleigh. We want to plant
seeds right here in Durham, where I was born, where our
family is raised and where our first client is at the Museum
of Life and Science. So I'd like to thank Mr. Dickie and
Mr. Gunn and the wonderful folks at the Office of Economic
and Workforce Development for seeing the vision and
partnering with us to put this on today's agenda. And we hope
to have your support. And I do want to say one thing about Mr.
Question. We met earlier this week. I did look into the Goose
Creek sewer Capacity website and saw there that on the FAQ
page it says, does this affect current residents or
businesses? And no, the only issue affects new development
projects in the impacted area. Existing homes and businesses
are not at risk. So I appreciate you bringing that
question to me and try to do a little digging myself. And
according to the website, this is not a new development. It is
a it's an existing space and the capacity will be similar to
what the previous capacity was. We just need to build it up to
be a commercial kitchen so we can make our product. So thank
you for your time and appreciate your consideration.
Thank you. That is the only speaker that we have. So the
public hearing is now closed and this item is now before the
council. Does anyone else have any other questions or comments
to make before I ask for a motion? Mayor Williams.
Yeah, I'll I'll say I'm going to support this even though the
application itself is not in the packet. I do have enough
information, I need it. I want to be very clear. I support our
small businesses, support our small business community. We
just landed the biggest investment in Durham's history.
AbbVie. They're investing $1.4 billion in our community, and
we put up a huge incentive for millions and they are coming
out of Illinois, coming out of Illinois to hear this is a
Durham based business that I look forward to supporting.
It's not millions, but it's it's a business that we can
invest in here locally. And again, I think that, you know,
considering the history of Durham, we have a lot of pain
back to do. And I think that even in a in a tight budget
year, I don't want to let technicalities hold up an
opportunity to support another small business in this
community. And I can tell you firsthand, as a small business
owner, there are vulture commercial tenants, commercial
landlords out there, and it is a very, very aggressive world
to try and do small business. And so if you have the
commercial space, commercial real estate space, where it's
extremely aggressive and you have a history of divestment
and small locally owned businesses, especially black
owned businesses, and you have a just the ability to do
business in this industry and this market right now, as it is
the only place sometimes you can go is to your city. And I
think Durham is a community where we're willing to invest
in our in our own. So I'll support it.
Council Member Kopac just to assuage the concerns, perhaps,
of staff like it may be issue of laptop versus iPad, but I'm
on my laptop and I have access to the completed application.
Okay. So it sounds like there's a
technical issue. There's a glitch in there, but the
completed application was included and I can see it.
Well, thank you. And I apologize. I'd like
council members to let me know which of you had trouble. I
know we verified it. It is on the website and it is in my
packet. It sounds like it's not in some of yours, so definitely
want to get to the bottom of that, but do want to verify
that it was made available to the public. Anyone who had
reviewed this beforehand should have gotten that attachment,
and we apologize for the problem.
Thank you. Manager Ferguson Council Member Rist. Did you
have a question? Yeah. No, I just just to say I
have deep appreciation for the applicant, one of our former
colleagues here on the on the dais. So thanks for being here.
I do love the investment in East Durham. As the mayor said,
I but I, I do feel like I'm not quite ready to support this
with given the questions we have about the sewer capacity.
We're talking about increasing sort of manufacturing capacity.
I don't have the application here. I don't I feel like when
we're again, utilizing scarce public resources, I think
voters want us to make sure we know what we're doing when
we're casting a vote. I don't have the information here. I
don't know if that's an error on the part of the city or. But
I'm just not without that information. Not comfortable
right now with this. So thank you.
Mayor Williams. Would we be interested in maybe
by continuing it or sending it back, or until we get the
technical? I just don't want to blame a an applicant on
something. That's a technicality on our part,
because I think it's fair. You can't see the application. I
can't see the application. And we feel differently. You can't
see the application. But, you know, we feel differently about
it. I don't think we should vote up or down on something.
That's a technicality on our part. And it doesn't mean
you're a former council member, but it has nothing to do with
it. It's for anyone that would be in this situation.
Thank thank you, Council colleagues. Does anyone have a
comment or question around that? Council Member Burris I
know you were one of the did you want to address that?
Yeah, and I just want to clarify that there will also
like provide space for Council Member Rist questions to be
addressed as well before we come back. Right? Yeah. Okay. I
think. We would leave the public.
Well, I close the public hearing, so I don't think we
can leave it open, but we can I don't know, how.
Did you. Close, Madam Attorney? Get to
reopen it. I think you could reopen it.
Okay. And then continuing. What we could do is just reopen
the public hearing. And that would give staff an opportunity
to upload the appropriate documents. Council colleagues,
do we want to do it to the next one? To the subsequent one? I
guess that's the question I have for you all. I feel like
we do need to deal with this before we go on our break in
June. So one cycle or two. I mean, however long it takes.
It's a question for staff around public hearings at the
at the next, I guess the okay, let me synthesize the question.
So one is making sure the application is in our packet so
that council can see it all to was to make sure that the water
department has done the necessary analysis on the goose
fall out creek thing. Sorry. And I think those are the two
kind of outstanding questions that council member or council
colleagues had. And so I would I'm going to look at Director
Young because you probably know how many zoning cases we have
next round. And I think that does influence if we go to 1 or
2 cycles out. So you're asking about whether
to go 1 or 2 cycles out. And the Madam Attorney just
reminded me that the May 18th, when we have a long work
session, a council meeting, and it's public hearings, so maybe
we want to go to the subsequent one in the first one in June,
but that's a public hearing for the budget. Yes. So either way,
we're kind of going to be here a long time. Maybe the second
one, the one in June would be better, because that way we're
not doing a work session and a council meeting and. Okay. And
you're nodding your head. Yes. Is that's a better option? Mr.
Freeland, are you comfortable with that? It would be two
cycles. So the first whatever. I think June, June 1st, it
would be Monday, June 1st. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to
reopen declaring the public hearing. Nope, I closed it. I
need to reopen it. I'm going to reopen the the public hearing
is now open again. We are going to continue this case until
June 1st at our council meeting. Thank you so much.
Thank you. And then we're going to reorder
the next agenda items. Because the way that it's listed it's I
my belief is that items 23, 24 and 25 are going to be pretty
straightforward. We don't have a ton of speakers on those. So
we will be taking up item number 22. Last colleagues, are
we good with that. So it lets folks who don't need to be here
go. So it is helpful for folks I know it's hard. So the first
item that I have then is item number 23, Consolidated
Annexation, 1735 Fletcher Chapel Road.
Mayor Williams Mayor Pro Tem Caballero.
And honorable Council members. Good evening.
I am Peyton Burgess. With the Planning.
And Development Department, and I am happy.
To be here with you tonight. A request.
For a utility. Extension agreement. Voluntary
annexation and initial zoning map. change has been received
from Gray Madden. With Madden Construction.
For one parcel of land zoned residential rural, totaling
0.83 acres and located at 1735 Fletcher's Chapel Road. This
annexation petition is not contiguous to the primary
corporate limits and would create a new satellite. This
request would allow the applicant to connect to city
water and sewer for one single family home. This is a direct
translational zoning. A direct translational zoning is one in
which the existing Durham County zoning is translated to
the identical Durham City zoning district. Upon the
annexation of the property into the city limits. Since there is
no request for a change to the existing zoning attached to
this annexation petition, there is not a development plan under
consideration and therefore no proffered commitments. Any
future development may proceed according to what the zoning
would allow. The properties are currently designated mixed use
neighborhood on the place type map. The existing residential
rural zoning is generally consistent with the designated
place type. If the proposed zoning is approved, there will
be no change to the place type designation. Thank you. Staff
and the applicant are available for any questions, and I
believe the applicant is available online.
Thank you. And we've heard the staff report. now declare.
This public hearing open. Colleagues does anyone have
questions for staff at this time? Okay. The applicant is
online and then I have one proponent and one opponent
signed up. Those are all the speakers I have, madam clerk,
is that correct? Okay. Thank you. Can we make the applicant
here? Hey, can.
You. Hear me?
Yes, we can, Mr. Madden. Good evening. How much time do you
think you'll need? Just a minute.
Okay. Madam clerk, could you please put two minutes on the
clock? I'm a local builder.
I actually. Live right around.
The corner from. This property. It's just a
single lot we're looking to get annexed into the city so that
we're able to tie in to the utilities, water and sewer that
pass right in front of the lot. Currently, just one single
family home. The owner of the property was actually there at
the meeting, and I think he had to leave. But he's a local
business owner as well. If there's any questions or
concerns, I'm I'm happy to address them.
Thank you. That's the only. Okay. And then I have Pablo
Friedman signed up. Okay I have you down is 23. So I'll call
you for 22. Sorry for 23. The opposite of what I just said.
Okay. I don't have any other speakers this evening. So this
public hearing is now closed and back before the council.
Council members, any questions or comments before I call the
motion? Go ahead. Council Member Baker.
Yeah. This this feels kind of small and inconsequential.
There's water and sewer that run right in front, but this is
mixed residential on the place type map. It is not contiguous
and you know, if we make a practice of of annexing small
lots that are satellite lots over and over and over, that
does add up over time. I'm kind of wrestling with that question
a little bit. I wonder if I wonder if staff can provide any
commentary on the fact that this is mixed residential on
the place type map, that it's not contiguous? What kind of
impacts do you think that will have? What happens if this were
approved to the Future Place site map?
Absolutely. So this site right now, although it would create a
satellite for the purpose of the annexation, there is water
and sewer right across the street. So those houses along
that road have it. Additionally, the majority of
the mixed residential place type that you're talking about
that this site is in, is really primarily undeveloped right
now. And so although this site is a single family home, there
is the potential that there will be future development and
future annexation that actually fills that area in and does
actually add to a mix of housing types and meets the
goal of that place type. All right.
Thank you. Thank you, Councilmember.
Miss Burgess. Sorry, we can come back there. I did note in
the packet, so I had the same question Council Member Baker
had I know this this does score revenue positive, which helped
me a little bit on this. But also as I understand the
packet. So the comp plan does allow for consideration of
annexation of a single family residence, even though it's a
even though it is not contiguous. Can you say more
about that in our comp plan? How we like? What's the
particular provisions there? Yeah, absolutely. So I believe
that's policy. 165 that addresses that. But it does
give sort of a opportunity for council to consideration.
Consider situations like this when it becomes necessary for
single family lots to connect to water and sewer to create
those satellites. And so policy 165 really gives council the
opportunity to consider those, even though they might create a
satellite. I appreciate that. Yeah. I
think bringing folks on the water and sewer is always
better. So yeah, I think that makes sense. I appreciate that.
Thanks for explaining. Thank you. Anyone else? Okay, I
appreciate those comments. Colleagues and I think it is
tricky. I guess this is a question for staff. Sorry.
Obviously we have water and sewer. They're taking advantage
of a thing. I would want city water and sewer to I think
sometimes becomes an equity issue, especially as people's
wells age or it becomes more expensive when we lay water and
sewer in that type of circumstance that's in there.
What is the outreach we are doing to residents that they
are aware. That there? What was.
That that they can't like? One side of the street is hooked up
and the other side isn't. What are the opportunities for
residents to know that that those possibilities.?
So I would think that if if somebody who is wanting to
develop their property, that's kind of where it starts, okay.
Whether that's through a metal meeting, signing up or starting
to submit applications and realizing that you need
annexation for water and sewer, I feel like that is where I see
the majority of applicants, kind of especially these
smaller single family lots. That's that's when I see the
majority of applicants getting. Thank you. Okay, colleagues,
the motion before us is. Hold on. First motion is to adopt an
ordinance annexing 1735 of Fletcher's Chapel Road into the
city of Durham, and to authorize the city manager to
enter into a utility extension agreement with Cecil Gray.
Madden, the third. So moved.
Second. Have a motion a second. Madam
clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please
close the vote? The motion passes 5 to 1 with
Council Member Baker voting no. Thank you. The second motion is
to adopt an ordinance amending the Unified Development
Ordinance by taking property out of the residential rule.
Falls Jordan District B watershed protection overlay
county jurisdiction and establishing the same as
residential rural falls. Jordan District B Watershed Protection
Overlay city jurisdiction. So moved.
Second. Have a motion a second. Madam
clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please
close the vote? Motion passes unanimously.
Thank you. And the last motion? Motion is to adopt a
consistency statement as required by section 160 de 605.
So moved. Second.
A motion. And second. Madam Clerk, could you please open
the vote? Could you please close the vote?
Motion passes unanimously. Thank you. Next item in front
of us this evening is item number 24, consolidated
annexation experience. Reality. Glenn West.
Mayor Williams, mayor pro Tem Caballero and honorable council
members. Good evening. I am Peyton Burgess with the
Planning and Development Department, and I am happy to
be here with you tonight. A request for utility extension
agreement, voluntary annexation and initial zoning map change
has been received from Jeff McSwain with Experience
Reality, Inc. for seven parcels and a portion of an eighth of
land totaling 25.949 acres and located at 4007 409, A, 49 B 40
1140, 1340 15 A, 4015, B 49 1940, 21, 4023, and a portion
of 4026 Glenn Road. This annexation petition is not
contiguous to the primary corporate limits, but is
contiguous to an existing satellite. This request would
allow the applicant to connect to city water and sewer, while
the current residential rural zoning would allow for up to 36
single family homes. The Utility Extension agreement
only allows for a maximum of eight. This is a direct
translational zoning. A direct transactional zoning is one in
which the existing Durham County zoning is translated to
the identical Durham City zoning district. Upon the
annexation of the property into the city limits. Since there is
no request for a change to the existing zoning attached to
this annexation petition, there is not a development plan under
consideration and therefore no proffered commitments. Any
future development may proceed according to what the zoning
would allow. The properties are currently designated mixed
residential neighborhood and established residential on the
place type map. The proposed residential rural zoning is
generally consistent with the designated place type. If the
proposed zoning is approved, there will be no change to the
place type designations. Thank you. Staff and the applicant
are available for any questions.
Thank you. You've heard the report from staff. I'm going to
declare this public hearing open. Colleagues, are there any
questions for staff before we take any speakers? Okay. Can I
go ahead and invite the applicant up for this item?
Good evening, Mr. Jewell. How much time do you think you'll
need? 4 or.
5 minutes. If you can put five up, I'll be.
Faster than that. Okay. Thank you. Madam clerk,
could you please put five minutes? Thank you.
Great. Appreciate it. Good evening, mayor Pro tem. Mayor,
Council members. Attorney and manager.
I'm Dan Jewell, reside at 1025 Gloria Avenue. I'm here at the
request of Jeff McSwain with Reality Ministries. We've
helped him prepare this application. He's asked me to
make a few remarks to clarify some things in the staff
report. First, this is by no stretch of the imagination a
development. These are eight existing lots that are already
adjacent to city water and sewer. And we simply want to
connect, which is why we made the request for annexation.
Utility extension. Secondly, clarify. Even though the staff
report calls us rightly, a satellite annexation, it is
anything but remote. The existing neighborhood to the
south is served by city water and sewer, and the only reason
it is not in the city limits is that it was developed years
ago, before the policy was in place, that if you wanted city
water or sewer, you must apply for annexation, otherwise it
would be within the city limits. And those lots are
actually a little bit smaller than the existing lots on this
site. And additionally, there is a neighborhood directly to
the north across the land that's controlled by Aqua
called Glenstone. That's a denser project, city water and
sewer. And in the city limits, finally, and we think most
importantly, these new homes will serve a very special
community. I hope some of you are familiar with the North
Street neighborhood just a few blocks up that way between Geer
and Club and Gear and North and Madison, Jeff and his team with
Reality Ministries were able to turn a dozen derelict, empty
old apartment buildings into an intentional community of
families with adult children who have special needs. What
they were able to do was to allow families to buy those
units and have actually a separate unit within them,
totally independent that their adult kids could live in. So
they would get not only the support of their families as
they aged, but the support of the rest of the neighborhood.
This community is now going on 15 successful years. We help
Jeff design it and get it approved, and it's become a
vibrant and very important part of the Durham fabric. But
there's more need than can be met over there. And when Jeff,
who's now has experienced reality and affiliated
organization, came across this property, he saw an opportunity
create a similar, although less dense community. And the homes
that will be built in this new neighborhood. They will all
have ADUs. Those homes will be offered to again residents who
have adult children, who have special needs of some kind or
another so they can live in the accessory dwellings as part of
that community and be nurtured as part of that whole
neighborhood. I hope you noted the unanimous recommendation
for approval received from the Planning Commission, and will
follow in suit, and we appreciate your time. I'm here
to answer any questions that you might have. That's the end
of our presentation. Thank you. Thank you so much. Those are
all the speakers that I have. So I'm going to go ahead and
declare this public hearing closed and back before the
council. Council colleagues, do we have any questions or
comments. Go ahead. Council Member Baker.
I appreciate all the commentary. And you know, there's of
course, the the story behind annexations and rezoning. And
then there's just the cold, hard of law that applies to to
these cases. I one question to to staff. Again, similar to my
last question, this is a direct translational rezoning. Direct,
translational. And annexation. I'm sorry. And from a rural
residential to rural residential and it's in the
mixed residential neighborhoods. Are we saying
that rural residential under the Udo is consistent with
mixed residential neighborhood place type?
It can be because it offers a type of housing. So especially
when it's combined with other zoning things that allow
additional housing types, it is possible for it to be
consistent. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Anyone else have any questions? Go ahead. Council
Member Rist. Thank you. Mayor Pro tem. Yeah,
this is this case is an easy yes for me. And it's not
because Mr. McSwain is actually a lifelong friend, one of my
dearest friends in the world. It's because, as Mr. is a jewel
said, this is not your ordinary development. Not at all. I
actually had the privilege of touring with Mr. McSwain 1520
years ago, North Street Community, when it was
literally, as Mr. Jewel said, dilapidated buildings right
near full steam Brewery. Now it's a marvelous community.
It's absolutely an example of God's beloved community on this
world with folks with disabilities living with able
bodied families. It's amazing model. We usually see
developments where developers want to maximize number of
units on the lot on their parcel. This is not the case
here. Mr. McSwain is not trying to maximize profit. He's trying
to maximize joy and love in the world. This is an amazing
project. I'm so proud to support this. I love the idea
of both. And this is not only housing, it's also below market
rate housing with AA to use to support more units. So this is
a beautiful project. We don't see stuff like this much. So I
just want to thank the the Mr.. Mr. Jewel and the applicant,
Mr. McSwain, my good friend, for an amazing project that
will make this a more beloved community. So thank you.
Thank you council colleagues. Anyone else?
Everything Council Member Rist just said thank you.
Perfect. So with that, I'm going to go ahead and move us
forward. My first motion this our first motion this evening
is to adopt an ordinance annexing experience reality.
Glenn West in the city of Durham, and to authorize the
city manager to enter into a utility extension agreement
with Experience Reality, Inc.. So moved.
Second. Have a motion and a second.
Madam clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please
close the vote? Motion passes unanimously.
Thank you. And our second motion is to adopt an ordinance
amending the Unified Development Ordinance by taking
property out of the residential rule falls Jordan, district B
and falls, Jordan Falls, Jordan District. A watershed
protection overlays county jurisdiction and establishing
the same as residential rural falls. Jordan District B and
Falls Jordan District. A watershed protection overlays
cities jurisdiction. So second.
A motion. And second, Madam Clerk, could you please open
the vote? Could you please close the vote?
Motion passes unanimously. Thank you. And our last motion
is to adopt a consistency statement as required by NC
section 160 D-605. Move to adopt consistency.
Got a motion a second. Madam Clerk, could you please open
the vote? Please close the vote.
Motion passes unanimously. Thank you. thank you. Have a
good night. Next up is item number 25, consolidated
annexation 1418 South Miami. Good evening.
Thank you. Mayor Williams. Mayor Pro Tem caballero, an.
Honorable council members. Good evening. I'm Andy Lester with
the planning and development department. It's good to be
with you all. Before I begin, staff, I'd like to state for
the record that all planning department hearing items have
been advertised and notice, in accordance with state and local
law and affidavits of all notices are on file with the
Department. A request for Utility extension agreement,
voluntary annexation and initial zoning map change has
been received from ten stivers of community for two parcels of
land totaling 3.44 acres and located at 1404 and 1418 South
Miami Boulevard. Annexation petition is for a contiguous
expansion of the primary corporate limits, with the
intent to connect to city water and sewer. As part of this
annexation petition, the applicant is not seeking a
change in the underlying zoning districts of commercial,
general and residential suburban 20, a direct
transitional zoning is the general zoning map change, in
which the existing county zoning is translated to the
identical city zoning district. Upon the annexation of the
property into the city limits. Since there is no request for a
change to the existing zoning attached to this annexation
petition, there's no there is not a development plan under
consideration and therefore no proffered commitments. Any
future development may proceed according to what the zoning
would allow. The properties are designated highway commercial
on the place type map. The proposed Commercial General is
generally consistent with the designated place type, while
the proposed residential suburban 20 is not generally
consistent with the designated place type, staff does not
recommend a change in the place type because the proposed
zoning in the LDC will be consistent with the place type.
Thank you. Staff and the applicant are available for any
questions. Thank you for the report from
staff. I'm now to declare this public hearing open. First.
Colleagues, do we have any anyone have any questions or
for staff? Okay. And I think I just have. One speaker yeah, I
have one speaker right now. Just the applicant, Tim Sivers,
is that right? Here you are. Where'd you go? Good evening,
Mr. Cyrus. How much time do you think you need?
One minute, two minutes. Perfect. Thank you, Madam
Clerk. Could you just do it? Thank you.
Good evening, Council members Tim Sivers.
With community 16. Consultant Place. So, yes, the
project in front of you. Is for two.
Parcels. To be clear, this is owned by Admiral Properties who
I'm here representing tonight. That same property owner owns
the two parcels between these two that are being annexed. His
intent is to sell all four properties which are currently
on the market. We did hold two neighborhood meetings. Both
meetings had one neighbor in attendance. The first meeting,
actually, that neighbor asked to be part of the application.
The second meeting, that neighbor was signed up for the
wrong meeting. So technically he that person jumped out of
the meeting. So we had no attendees at the second
neighborhood meeting. Planning Commission did recommend
unanimous approval of this, and I request that you follow their
recommendation. I'm available for any questions. Thank you.
Thank you. Those are all the speakers I have signed up for
this item. Let me just make sure. Okay. And so at this time
I'm going to close the public hearing. The back before
council. Anyone have any questions colleagues questions
or comments. Okay I'm going to keep us moving then. So the
motion in front of us right now is to adopt an ordinance
annexing 1418 South Miami and to the city of Durham, and to
authorize the city manager to enter into a utility extension
agreement with Admiral Properties, LLC.
So move. I have a motion. A second.
Madam Clerk, could you please open the vote, please? Close it.
Motion passes unanimously. Thank you. Our second motion is
to adopt an ordinance amending the Unified Development
Ordinance by taking property out of the commercial, general
residential suburban Dash 20 falls Jordan Watershed Overlay
district B, Dash district Dash b overlay County jurisdiction
and establishing the same as commercial general residential
suburban Dash 20 falls slash Jordan Watershed overlay
district B overlay city jurisdiction.
So moved. Second have a motion a second.
Madam clerk, could you please open the vote? Please close the
vote. Motion passes unanimously.
Thank you. And last motion is to adopt a consistency
statement as required by NC General Statute, section one
6605. So moved.
Second. I have a motion and a second.
Madam clerk, could you please close the vote? Open the vote.
Close it. Thank you. Motion passes unanimously.
Thank you. Our last item, if I'm not mistaken, before us
this evening is item number 23, consolidated Consult. Excuse
me. Thank you. Consolidated annexation enclave at Little
Creek. For. annual action plan CDBG,
the homes. Hold on. Yes, sir. Sorry. That
was under consent. So unless that item got pulled, if I'm
not mistaken, the item is under consent. So unless it was
pulled, we passed that earlier in the evening. So our. Sir,
I'm not going to speak to you back and forth. Maybe somebody
from staff could. Am I wrong on that, madam? Which item? He
said. We're talking about.
Item number 26. Correct. Is that right?
26. If staff could speak with the
resident around that, that would be helpful. Thank you.
What's going. On?
Good evening, Mr. Lester. We're ready for the staff report.
Appreciate your patience. No worries. Thank you. A
request for utility extension agreement. Voluntary annexation
and initial zoning map. Change has been received from no.
Ghost of Morningstar law Group for one parcel and a portion of
another, totaling 47.85 acres and located at 55, 24, and 5515
George King Road. This annexation petition is
contiguous to the primary corporate limits. Due to a
recent annexation by state law. The request is considered
non-contiguous because it was at the time of submittal, the
applicant proposes to change this designation of one part of
one partial parcel read 232242, totaling 45.95 acres to plan
development residential 5.006 to allow up to 230 townhouses,
multiplexes and or apartments. The applicant is also seeking
an initial zoning map change of Rs 20 county jurisdiction to Rs
20 city jurisdiction for the other parcel, read 140495. Any
use within the Rs 20 district will be allowed. The properties
are currently designated Mixed Residential Neighborhood,
Transit Opportunity Area and Recreation and open space on
the place type map. The proposed PDR 5.006 is generally
consistent with the mixed residential neighborhood and
recreation and open space, place types, and the Rs 20
zoning is generally consistent with the designated place type,
as the district allows residential with limited
non-residential uses. Individual higher density and
intensity uses are still desired in the Toe area. Thank
you staff. The applicant are available for any questions.
Thank you. Having heard the staff report, I'm declaring
this public hearing open before we take speakers. Colleagues.
Does anyone have any questions for staff? Okay, based on my
count and I'm just going to take a second to count how many
speakers I have that are not the applicant. I have 21
speakers on this item, so. I'm going to allow one minute per
speaker. Please do not yell at me. It's not going to. It's
10:40 p.m. with 21 speakers. It's 21 minutes. I understand
that y'all are displeased, but as presiding chair, I get to
make that decision. Mr. Ghosh, you are the applicant. Thank
you, Mr. Ghosh. How much time? And please don't say too many
minutes. Less than. 21 minutes.
I was going to say. Maybe 12 minutes.
Okay. Madam clerk, could you put 12 minutes? And the way
this works, please do not yell from the chambers. I taught
middle, I taught preschool through middle school. Do not
yell. Thank you. If the. We have to allow equal time. So if
for whatever reason, the applicant goes longer, more
time gets added to the other side. That's how this works. It
has to be fair. And in fact, we are already not following our
own rules because we are only allowed by our own procedures.
It's 15 minutes per side. That is actually what our procedures
say. And we adopted those procedures, re-adopted them in
June of 2025. So by our own procedures, by letting everyone
speak, we are already forgiving and adding more. So I'm just
sharing because I know some of you all are not. You don't come
here as much and so you don't know what all the rules are. So
I'm explaining our procedures. Our procedures allows 15
minutes per side. Opponents and proponents. That's our
procedures. Go ahead. Mr.. Gosh. Thank you.
First of all. Thank you.
Mr. Lester, for your presentation.
And good evening. Mayor Williams.
Mayor Pro Tem. Caballero .. And members of the
city Council. I'm Neil Ghosh with the Morningstar Law Group
at 700 West Main Street in Durham. I'm here tonight
representing the application for this rezoning and
annexation request. Our team includes Tim Sivers with
community, who you heard from earlier, and the developers, Ty
Armstrong with Abode and Ted Heilbrunn with Kelly on the
affordable component. There is a lot to talk about here, so
I'm going to jump right in rather than repeating what Mr.
Lester has already told you. This is a challenging site, but
I believe our team has risen to that challenge. When Ty
contacted me, he told me his goal was to put a high tech
deal on this site. Married with a market rate component. When
we looked at how that might work, we had to make some tough
decisions. Just like you will need to do tonight. But I want
to walk you through that process. Here's the site and
just for orientation purposes, the right hand side of the page
is south at the top of the page where George King Road is is
the east. You can see the Chapel Hill community is on the
bottom of the page, which directionally represents the
West. This is one of the few areas where the homes are
within Durham County, but also are within the town of Chapel
Hill rather than the City of Durham. And anyway, you can see
on this page that there are some streams on this property,
and there is some natural heritage designation on the
site. I thought it would be useful to start there. The
brown area on this slide represents the natural Heritage
Area designation on the site, so you can see it's basically
all in the southern portion of the site. You can also see that
there already are impacts in that area with this existing
gas line right here. That's already there, right. And but
what really is this natural heritage area. And if you zoom
out, I think you can get a better picture. The natural
heritage area that exists on our site is the very periphery
of a much larger natural heritage area. In fact, the
area to our south all the way out to highway 54 is all
natural Heritage area. And that portion south of us is
federally managed. In other words, there's a huge chunk of
natural heritage area that is already being preserved on our
site. We have two categories R5, which is a general category
as opposed to a top or high priority area, and C4, which
signifies limited or lower priority if it were a high
priority, one would imagine the federal government would have
taken it for preservation. Like the area to the south. Now,
this image is from an item in your agenda packet. The UEA or
Utility Extension Agreement. This is a document prepared by
the city staff to tell us what we need to do on our dime to
bring water and sewer to this site. If we are annexed. As you
can see, the site has been identified for a public lift
station. The ideal location for a lift station, just generally
speaking, is at the very bottom of a drainage basin which
happens to be on the site, and this infrastructure will be
built by the developer at a cost of around $1.5 million. So
that's where the lift station is, right in the natural
heritage area. And don't forget, we would have to build
a road to it for access and extend utilities to and from it.
Now, this is a figure from the adopted collector street plan
for this area. You can see all the roads have been planned
through this parcel, which is a fixed feature of the site that
we have to take into consideration for development.
The developer will build portions of these roads and off
site improvements, including extensions of utilities that
have costs of around $2.5 million in public
infrastructure. Now, here are those roads again in that
roundabout and again, right through the natural heritage
areas. Honestly, I don't really understand this. This transit
plant or collector street plan. You kind of could not draw
these roads in a worse way with more impacts. But luckily there
is some flexibility for property owners on how the road
goes through the property. The end points are more or less
fixed. The road on the southern side, our southern boundary
actually is not entirely on our property, so we will not be
building it. Or I don't think any portion of it actually,
which I think is a good thing given its significant impacts
to the natural heritage area. And we intend to design the
other road, the one that goes to the middle of the property,
so as to avoid the first little stream finger, right, right
here we want to turn that road. So we miss that. We want to
straighten out the crossing of the stream and hopefully get
all of that road out of the natural heritage area. And
significantly, as I mentioned at the beginning, my client was
dead set on finding a way to include a light tech component
in this project. We found a great partner on the on the
affordable side and Ted, Halbrand Kelly development. And
you all might be aware that light tech deals have a scoring
rubric, which includes many facets. And among those are
proximity to and drive time to amenities
Like grocery stores or. Pharmacies.
And also access. Our valuation.
Of the site basically indicates there are only.
Two locations. On the parcel.
Which will score adequately to be awarded tax credit. And you
guessed it, both are within the Natural Heritage area. I said I
wanted to walk you through the decision making process here.
In a nutshell. We found that we really cannot avoid impacts to
the natural heritage area based purely on the infrastructure
requirements. The lift station, the roads, the stream crossing.
No matter how this site is developed. The natural heritage
area will be impacted. Secondly, we took into
consideration the state's own value of this particular
natural heritage area. Not all are created equal. These fell
into the lower categories. And finally, we ultimately decided
that if impacts to the natural heritage area are inevitable
and these areas are not of particular significance, that
it makes sense to include the light component despite it
impacting the natural heritage area. The city has already
decided to pick infrastructure over natural heritage. We are
hoping you will pick affordable housing over natural heritage
as well. To wrap up, I have two more slides. Tonight there are
a few more commitments we would like to add. We want to
increase our school commitment from 11,000 to 25,000. We also
want to commit to handling the 100 year storm. And then these
last two are meant to provide specific commitments for
greater protections to the natural heritage area. We are
committing to having a 30 foot natural buffer along our
southern property line, and we are prohibited prohibiting land
disturbance south of that gas easement that I pointed out
earlier. These are great commitments on top of the
already great commitments the project has, including several
of which were negotiated with our Chapel Hill neighbors for
buffers, additional plantings, and height limitations. We also
already have decreased the allowable impervious from 70%
to 60%. We have three times the amount of UDL required, tree
coverage, and of course the affordable housing commitment,
which requires a minimum of 20% of the units to be affordable.
My client is deep into this project and at this point is
therefore in a position where they intend to develop the
site. This last slide, I just wanted to point out the various
outcomes here. Tonight. We are asking for your approval of
both the annexation and rezoning. This will result in
about 230 units, roughly $4 million in public
infrastructure, and 20% affordable units. If instead
you approve only the annexation, the project would
shrink to about 91 single family detached units. The
public infrastructure would still be there, but we would
not be able to do any of the affordable housing. And if
neither the annexation nor the rezoning are approved, my
client would intend to build this site on well and septic in
the county for about 25 estate lots. Again, I recognize this
will be a hard decision for you. It was for us. We
understand that we already went through the mental math on
this, and obviously we decided to move forward. This is a good
project. Despite the challenges that the property presents, and
we hope you see it the same way. Our team is here to answer
any questions you may have, and thank you for your time tonight.
Thank you. I have been given a list of residents in the order
that they would like to speak, so I'm going to call that list,
and then I'm going to have to cross-reference it to the list
that signed up with the clerk. So just to make sure I don't
skip anybody. I think what I'm going to do, and actually I'm
going to take the online speaker. I think we have one
online speaker, Mr.. Jonathan Langston.
Can you hear me? Can you speak up just a little
bit? Yes.
Can you hear. Me now?
Yes. We can. Thank you. Good evening. You have one minute.
All right. I'm Jonathan Langston, and my
home is located at 5508 George King Road, adjacent to the
proposed site. I think the stormwater issue is one of my
biggest concerns for roadway and sewer infrastructure, and
the legality of the water utility extension agreement.
Currently, there are several developments around the area
which have been approved, and I don't believe the city is
taking into consideration the exorbitant amount of runoff
that we're cleared with this development. The connector road
from George King Road to Lancaster connects directly
above a creek that crosses George King Road and onward to
Lee village center. And I have all ideas that the City of
Durham will have future problems and costs of this
road. With the roadway connector for George King
washing out the location to the creek due to stormwater from
surrounding development and most importantly, affecting the
sewer pumping station outlined in exhibit B of the Utility
Extension Agreement. Another big concern I have is the
legality of the drinking water infrastructure outlined in
exhibit A of the utility agreement downward, North and
South. My 2022 plat registered with the county memorializes
the width of the road and my neighbor to the west of me.
There have a conservation easement to the center of
George King Road. So thank you. I hope y'all vote no.
Those are all the online speakers I have. First, sign
up. This is the order that folks said that they wanted to
speak in. So I'm going to call you up the first five Melissa
Cain, Ruth Ross, Linda Shiflett, Brian Sugg and
Michael Wilder. Good evening. My name is
Melissa Kane. I live in the Oaks Villas in Chapel Hill and
in Durham County. Thank you for taking my emails. As the
president of the. HOA.
The Oaks Villas Owners Association, I felt obligated
to explain to you the value of this particular land and why it
is vastly inappropriate for development. First of all, Oaks
Villas is adjacent to Little Creek. It is adjacent to the US
Army Corps of Engineers. Land. North Carolina Game Lands and
and 5524 George King Road. The proposed site for enclave is a
site that stands out as the northernmost boundary of the
Army Corps Watershed Protection Agent Area. It is the
headwaters of the Jordan Lake watershed. No other property in
Durham County is like this property. It is unique. Is that
it? Yes, ma'am.
Thank you. That is it? Yep. Thank you, Miss Ruth Ross.
My name is Ruth Ross on. Helmsdale Drive and I've lived
in Durham and Durham County since 1970. I have watched this
community grow, change and prosper over many decades, and
I care deeply about the decisions that shape its
future. The question tonight is whether the enclave project
will be the right kind of growth in the right place.
Durham adopted clear goals in the 2023 Comprehensive Plan for
Complete Neighborhoods, transportation, access and
Environmental Stewardship. Enclave may add housing units,
but it falls short of these larger responsibilities. I'm
especially troubled by what this proposal means for the
land itself. Once mature, trees are removed, streams disturbed,
and large areas covered with pavement and rooftops. Those
natural protections are lost for generations. When the city
approves annexations and rezoning, I believe those
decisions should fairly clear the long term public good.
Thank you. And then just real quick, some of the folks who I
have in the order that they want weren't I don't I'm not
matching them. So I may I may read your name out afterwards
and just make sure that you register with the city clerk.
Okay. Thank you. Good evening, Miss Shiflett.
Yes. Good evening. My name is Linda
Shiflett, and I'm here to speak about enclaves, affordable
housing model. At first glance, at 20% affordable housing
commitment sounds meaningful. And I want to acknowledge that
Durham does need more affordable housing. We've heard
it a lot tonight, but tonight's question is not whether
affordability matters. It's whether this model delivers it
in a way that is equitable, reliable and aligned with your
comprehensive plan. Based on the details on the staff report
and the Planning Commission report, it does not. First, the
20% commitment is misleading. The proposal allows a portion
of that obligation to be met by conveying a separate three acre
parcel to another developer. That means the affordable
housing is not concurrently built, not guaranteed in
timing, and not controlled by this project. It is deferred
and has uncertainty. This model creates separation, not
inclusion. Market rate units are clustered in one area,
while income restricted units are placed in another. This is
not a mixed income community, its economic segregation.
Durham's policy calls for integration where affordability
is woven into the fabric of a neighborhood.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Brian Sugg.
Good evening. Good evening Brian.
I live in Durham. County and the community that borders the
western boundary of this project. There's a lot
happening in the near vicinity of our neighborhood, and I
wanted to call that out here tonight to quantify the impact
that not only this development, but the other developments are
having on our neighborhood. I provided this map to all of you
in email yesterday, and I bring it here tonight to show that
there are 12 projects in total on this one square mile of map
that you see here on the screen tonight. Six of these projects
have already been built primarily along Farrington
Road. Five of them are active cases. That is listed on page
seven of the zoning Map report in your packet. And then you
have the enclave. I bring this to your attention one, because
there are 4800 units that have been planned for this one
square mile of development, and at 2.2 people per unit, that's
over 10,000 people being squeezed into this amount of
area that is constrained by wetlands to both the east and
the west. And this enclave proposal is only one of two
remaining in rezoning and application rezoning phase. And
you have an opportunity to preserve some of what's left.
Thank you. Thank you. Good evening, good.
Evening, good morning. I so my name is Michael. Wilder and I'm
here tonight to oppose the annexation. Rezoning. I'm going
to deviate from my prepared text to talk about an exchange
of emails I've had with Andy Lester and Eric Kane over the
last few months. First of all, and your documents tonight for
the annexation petition in the first paragraph, state pretty
clearly the state law requires this application to be
considered as a non-contiguous, because when it was submitted
to the city planning, the city county planning, it was not
contiguous could not be considered contiguous. So it's
not a it's a non-contiguous annexation. Secondly, I've
exchanged email once again with Andy, and here is the place
type map for the properties along George King Road. And you
can plainly see, as Andy has confirmed with me, that the
acreage set aside for 5524 George King Road, the enclave
development, is not a Toa. It's not designed as a toa unlikely
village, which is on the east side. Thank you.
Thank you so much. The next few. And then just very
clearly, Miss Melissa and Miss Ruth Ross and Miss Linda
Shiflett, I don't have you on our registered list with the
clerk. So before you leave, just make sure you register.
Thank you. The next few folks I have are Gordon Gardner, Abbey
palms, Crag Palms and Patrice, Captain or Captain. Oh, and
then Tyler Bennett. Sign up.
I'm sorry. Go ahead. Good evening.
Thanks for having us. My name is Gordon Gardner, and I'm
opposed to the approval of the enclave development and the
proposed connection of Lancaster Drive through the
development. Our streets, like sidewalks and bike lanes,
pedestrians, including children and elderly residents, are
forced to share the road with vehicles. And the road does not
meet connector street guidelines. I'd also like to
piggyback on the views on the affordable housing. The
proposal does not guarantee any affordable housing will ever be
built, and if it is, it's not an inclusionary way. I'm a
retired teacher of Durham Public Schools, having served
29 years at the very schools. This proposal in my own
neighborhood send their children Geffen's middle and
Jordan. I. Research shows an inclusion of affordable housing
significantly narrows the academic achievement gap,
leading to higher test scores and improved reading and math
proficiency. Beyond academics, living in a stable mixed income
communities reduces the toxic stress associated with housing
insecurity and neighborhood violence. I urge you to vote no.
Yes. Good evening.
Thank you. Good evening.
Unfortunately. my presentation. Didn't get uploaded. So you
have received this. There's I'm not going to go through it, but
there's a great deal of pictures in there just
depicting our neighborhood. Just to let you know what it
looks like. We have a lot of seniors, probably 90% seniors.
They use assistive walking devices to get to mailboxes. We
don't have sidewalks and we don't have bike lanes. We
simply have to walk on the road to get everywhere. I also
wanted to mention there's a map in your in your documents that
Mr. Ghosh didn't recommend. Didn't mention one area.
There's a brown area in that map above the Natural heritage
lands, and that is the North Carolina Natural Heritage
Program. Biodiversity and Wildlife Assessment Area. It's
a birding area that was authorized by the the Audubon
Society. So that's also another area to consider when you make
this decision. The other thing is this is immediately adjacent
to hunting grounds. And I want to just stress that these
places are going to have children playing in yards,
right at hunting grounds. Thank you.
Good evening. Are you Craig? Craig. Perfect.
Good evening. Thank you, thank you Craig
palms. I live.
On Lancaster. I appreciate your time tonight.
So my comments and I think this got.
Uploaded to you also. So I'm not.
Going to go through. The whole thing.
This relates to the southwest Durham southeast Chapel Hill
collector street plan. And as.
You probably aware, the document was adopted as a
policy planning guidance document. Okay. And I don't
have time to go through the whole thing. But this current
development that what they are proposing as far as connecting
to Lancaster as a connector street, doesn't comply with the
document. The document talks about collector street plans
having adequate space for cars and bikes and sidewalks to talk.
The document even goes on. There are some pictures in in
this document that talks about trees, and I, you know, the
last page of the document talks about the why the proposed
extension into Lancaster isn't in compliance with with that
planning and that guidance for you all. So we urge no, thank
you. Thank you.
Good evening. Hi.
My name is. Patrice.
Given the county is already. Moving forward with the county
wide open. Space plan.
In spring 2026, supported by the 2023 Comprehensive Plan,
which calls for identifying and permanently protecting lands
designated as recreation and open space. This parcel already
carries that designation. It connects to Little Creek Trail,
lies near conserved land by the North Carolina Botanical
Garden, and supports a perennial stream and important
habitats like that of affiliated woodpeckers. There
are several pileated woodpecker that live in the woods, where
the proposed enclave will be built. They are legally
protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. That means it's
illegal to harm, capture, or kill them or disturb their
nests without a permit. They are a keystone species because
they create cavities and mature forests with large dead or
decaying trees. Please protect this Jordan Creek watershed.
The. The southern portion of the site, adjacent to the Army
Corps land, is designated as Natural Heritage land. It is
named Little Creek. Bottomlands and Slopes. The conservation
value is C4 and the rarity value was R5. It scored within
both categories of conservation and rarity. Approving rezoning
now would be premature. Respectfully ask that you wait
until this parcel is reviewed through Open Space plan
process. Thank you.
Tyler. There we go. Come on. One second.
There we go. Good evening.
My name is Tyler Bennett, and I'm would like to speak.
To the. Natural Heritage area and the
recreational and open space areas on.
This property. As Neal pointed out, this is a
fairly complex piece of property. And what I show in
this map, and I'm north is the top is north. We have the
little Creek water fowl impoundment below the property.
We have a flood zone. We have game lands below the property.
And in the property we have two creeks that provide all the
drainage for a series of seven ponds that are outside the
property. And as Neal pointed out, it's very difficult to
develop this land because of all these environmental
concerns. And I think there's a very easy solution to this.
Turn down. The request.
Thank you. Thank you. Laura Elgin, Charlie
Mondeo and TC MorphOS. Thank you.
Thank you. Good evening. I'm Laura Elgin and I oppose this
action. There are a number of reasons we oppose it, but.
specifically I wanted to address my.
Concern about stormwater. Runoff and its implication for
most of the 14 homes on the east side of Helmsdale, my
street, the proposed 60% impervious surface will
significantly increase. stormwater runoff over the past
10 to 15 years. Residents of Helmsdale have experienced
increasing incidents of flooding and drainage issues.
Here are a few comments from many I received, but I've
paired it down. My neighbor on 103 reports. Heavy rains bring
water down from Lancaster, through my backyard and on down
the hill, through the backyards of my neighbors at 105 and 107.
Even with an elaborate French drain system, after heavy
rains, it is still emptying water out onto the curb.
Another, my other neighbor at 202 Helmsdale. There have been
two flooding episodes, the worst being in 2013. Do well
anyway, thank you very much for your consideration.
Thank you. Hello Charles.
Mondello. I'm an American.
Society of. Photogrammetry and remote
sensing imaging scientist, by the way, and I also happen to
live on Helmsdale. You've seen many of these comments before,
so I'm going to. Just flag.
Your own data. for you. If you look at this slide, you will
see where we have impacts from flat areas. That is where water
flows. It's plain as day. It's visually right in front of you.
It's a lean and Chantal, any addition of impermeable will
cause that to expand. You have additionally a bunch of other
slides I've given you. Without enough time to present. I've
given you a Duke study from February of this year, which
highlights here and in other cases where these kinds of
things are a challenge. When you have wetlands like we do in
this area. So please just read through this material and use
this insight as you move on across many programs. Hopefully
I've also given you the USGS and North Carolina State
commentary on Risk, so I hope it helps you here and
elsewhere. But please don't approve. Disaster do occur.
Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. My name is T.C.
MorphOS. I'm a partner with a law firm
in Chapel Hill, and I'm here on behalf of the Oakville
Homeowners Association. I'm going to condense down my
presentation to just make two points. One, I remind council
that the Planning Commission voted 8 to 3 against
recommending approval of this project, largely due to
environmental concerns. Secondly, I would point out
that the applicant has promised to expand George King Road to
NCDOT standards and to provide water and sewer along much of
the George King Road right of way. And I would say, with all
respect to the Council and to the applicant, they cannot make
those improvements. As you heard from me in December, in
connection to the Village Center project, George King
Road exists as a prescriptive easement, which means that they
would need to get easements from private property owners,
which I believe was the point Mr. Langston was going to make
earlier. In order to be able to do those infrastructure
improvements, should they seek to rely on the village center
project, which, as council is aware, proposes to realign the
George King Road project? I would say that that has been
challenged in court and should not be used as a basis for
approving this project. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. That was the order of the folks who wanted and
everybody else who came after had registered. And so thank
you for that. And so now I'm going to keep moving on the
list. That was the order that y'all wanted. I have Jennifer
Mayer, Mimi Kessler. Pablo Friedman, Steven Cohn and David
Barron. Yes. Thank you. Good. Good
evening, Jennifer Maher. My address is on record.
I'm co-chair. Of the new Hope Road. Alliance
Conservation Committee. I'm not a.
Neighbor of this property, so I'm speaking as a person
concerned about the community of Durham and its future. This
is a very attractive in on paper offer of affordable
housing, but it needs to be balanced against possible
damage of an long term damage of water that we've just heard
tonight. We're going to be drinking from Jordan Lake, the
Natural Heritage Area is not a small deal. It is a deal that
protects birds, which we have found in new Hope. Audubon
Research has found are in a steep decline, and that
reflects what's going on with our environment for people. So
how affordable is it when your heat bills cause the heat cause
high bills? How affordable is it when your water is polluted
and when this city has to remediate? So for all these
reasons, I ask you to think a very difficult decision. We
acknowledge that, but please vote no.
Hi, I'm Mimi Kessler. I just want to amplify proximity to
hunting, environmental sensitivity, including rare
birds. To many people into small space. And the Planning
Commission voted 8 to 3 against it. Please vote no.
Thank you. Good evening.
All right. Good evening. An apology and
two points to my fellow premium tax paying brothers and
sisters. I'm sorry you all have to sit and only get one minute
of public comment. The presiding officer can make the
rule, and they can change the rule. And elections have
consequences. Two points I want to make. Point number one, I
actually want to thank the applicant for increasing their
proffer on education. It's funny how when council members
lean in a certain things and the lawyers that represent
these applicants listen and they improve their proffers,
this is a substantially better proffer on education. And I
want to congratulate the applicant on that point. Number
two, that I want to make is specifically around emergency
first responders. And I made this at the last meeting that
you all had. I think it's really important that you all
figure out as council members the the number of times that
they've gone into stat mode for this part of Durham County. And
how is this applicant going to adjust it? Because right now in
Durham, there are times when you call 911 and you can't get
an ambulance delivered to you. So if they're going to if we're
going to give them this, which we don't have to, how are they
going to improve public goods in Durham? Thank you very much.
Steve Cohn, chair of the Open Space committee of the Durham
Open Space and Trails Commission, as the citizen
group that advises Durham's governments on all matters
connected to open space, we've sent you our Open Space report
card on the enclave at Little Creek with grades of 1D and
three FS. As you've heard, there's a Natural Heritage Area
involved with direct proximity to NC Game Lands and with a
hunting safety buffer around it, and the developer is choosing
to build over them with no commitment to protect the
natural heritage area and to create an adequate buffer from
the active game lands to the south, the developers can do
whatever they want in this area and that is not acceptable as
the planning staff's consistency review shows, this
rezoning case fails to meet policy 79, policy 81 and policy
83 on protecting environmentally open space
sensitive areas. It also fails to meet policy 80 on protecting
the integrity of nearby parklands and nature preserves.
We strongly recommend that the enclave at Little Creek should
not be rezoned. Thank you.
Good evening. Good evening. My name is David
Barron. I'm speaking on behalf of the Environmental Affairs
Board, Land Use and Planning subcommittee, where I serve as
chair. The site sits in a very sensitive area within the
Jordan Lake watershed, with streams feeding directly into
Little Creek. Little Creek is already identified as impaired.
Given that, as per other comment, we're concerned about
the amount of impervious surface leading to stormwater
runoff, sediment, and nutrient loading into an already
stressed system. We're also concerned about the lack of
attention to a designated natural area, identified by the
National Carolina Natural Heritage Program on the
southern portion of the site. These areas are identified by
state experts because they contain high value habitat and
biodiversity. For a little more clarity here. I do believe they
send actual people out to these sites to make the determination
of what is a natural area and what is not. We should not
diminish that categorization there. When you need to put a
lift station and do development in that area, it's kind of a
clear indication that you do not have the right development
for the parcel at hand. So AaBb Land Use and Planning strongly
urges council not to allow development of this natural
area and a minimum. We need to have a better understanding of
the engineering stormwater management plan and sediment
transport analysis. These plans would result in commitments to
minimize impervious surfaces. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. I have Sarah Morgan,
Helen Westerman, Paul Casey, Drew Dorey. And Elizabeth Faber.
Good evening. Good evening. My name is Sarah Morgan, and I
live on Tweed Place. We support thoughtful development and the
need for more housing. But growth must be aligned with
safety. And this proposal is not. Durham is committed
through its Vision Zero Action plan to eliminating traffic
deaths and serious injuries. That commitment is grounded in
a simple idea safe mobility is a right, not a trade off. And
the data shows why this matters. In Durham, there are
32 crashes every day and a pedestrian is involved in a
crash every three days at Farrington Road and NC 54.
Adjacent to this development, there have been more than 40
crashes and over 40,000 cars moved through this corridor
daily. As of 2024. Now consider what the enclave would do. The
enclave would connect to Lancaster, Hebrides and Dundalk
roads, creating a cut through route that diverts traffic into
residential neighborhoods that were never designed to carry
this load. This increases exposure without ensuring
safety infrastructure. Exactly what Vision Zero warns against.
Please vote no. Thank you.
Good evening. Good evening.
I am. Helen Westerman. I support.
affordable housing and I support strong communities.
This plan does neither. It separates.
Residents by income. Two storey townhouses with garages for
some, and a four story affordable housing building
built by a different developer for others. The result is a
visually different and likely inferior structure set apart
from the rest. That is not community, that is segregation,
affordable housing should provide stability and dignity,
not label people as less than in their own neighborhood.
There is also no guarantee these units will ever be built.
Low tech funding is highly competitive and this site does
not appear to meet key criteria. Yet. The promise of
20% affordable housing is being used to justify a zoning
change. While responsibility for these units is handed off
to a third party. Once zoning is approved, accountability
disappears, both for whether these units are built and the
quality of what it is built. I urge you to reject this
proposal. As it stands. My name is Paul. Sorry.
Okay. My name is Paul Casey. I wanted to highlight quickly why
we believe Lancaster is unsafe to serve as a through street
for heavy traffic. Lancaster Drive is a residential street
defined by private driveways, curb cuts and high pedestrian
activity. Because we do not have individual mailboxes at
our homes. Or and our residents, including many
elderly neighbors, must cross the street daily to access
shared mailbox stations. This is a walking neighborhood where
families, children and pet owners are constantly active,
introducing through traffic into this environment creates
an immediate and preventable safety hazard. Second,
Lancaster Drive functions as a central traffic hub for a great
deal of activities in the Oaks neighborhood, including golf
course, tennis and pickleball courts, and a pool. These
activities generate a flow of vehicles, along with pedestrian
crossings that are often obscured to drivers unfamiliar
with this area. Adding high volume through traffic to a
street where children are biking and visibility is
highly, is already restricted is an unacceptable risk to
public safety. You should turn this down.
Good evening. I'm Elizabeth Faber. I'll speak
before Jerry. Dory.
Thank you. Thank you. Council members. I live on Nottingham
Road in Durham and you have my photos and pack in your
materials. So I'll just speak to my slides that the data
shows that this proposal does not advance or even align with
Durham's community goals and objectives speak about
transportation first, the closest existing transit stop
is 1.3 miles away at the intersection of highway 54 and
Falconbridge Road. This is a 28 minute walk on a very busy
multi-lane highway without sidewalks or bike lanes to
reach a singular bus stop, you have to cross a very busy
highway 54 without a traffic light or crosswalk, and I would
add it respectfully that it contradicts today's
proclamation of May as Durham's National Bike Month.
Additionally, one of Durham's goals for health and well-being
is for new developments to stay within a quarter mile of the
pharmacy. This proposal does not meet this goal either. The
closest pharmacy is two miles away. The closest health clinic
is 1.6 miles away, or 35 minutes by foot. By foot. I
respectfully ask you to oppose. Thank you.
Thank you. Good evening.
Let me get the right. Sorry. Let me.
Get the right PowerPoint here and I'm going to zip through
it. Part two. There we go. There
you go. Yeah. Thank you. Good evening.
I'm Andrea Doria. I live at 407 Lancaster Road in Durham
County. I want to talk again about how this aligns with the
objectives. Let's see. There we go. The 2025 CEO from Durham.
How does it align with daily needs. So it should be a
walking community. And this graph shows that 4840 or being
within a mile of a grocery store is the goal. Our closest
grocery store from this property is two miles 45
minutes by foot. Similarly, for banking, they recommend a
quarter mile from a bank and basically the closest bank is
2.4 miles away. So it's not a walkable community. In fact,
there's a 1.2 mile walk to the closest elementary school. And
as you guys know from family responsibility zones in 2025,
walk zones that extend up to one and a half miles, where
school bus transportation is not offered, that Brown. That's
the Creekside Elementary school. There's an enclave.
This is the road that people will have to walk down. No
sidewalks, no lights, and poor visibility for dust. We
recommend a no vote. Thank you. Those are all the
speakers that I have signed up this evening. Has anyone? Oh.
You have okay. I apologize. Go ahead. Good evening.
Good evening. Sorry, I. Thought I signed up properly.
It's okay. When you're done speaking, just
make sure to register with the clerk. Thank you so much.
Thank you. My name is Chris Bass and I am the owner of an
ecological. Engineering company.
I spend all day, every day trying to protect streams and
build projects to restore them, protect wetlands. I build
stormwater projects and I work on flooding resilience for
communities. And both of those. That is the reason I'm here to
oppose this development. It is located right downstream of the
confluence of two of the very most flood prone streams in the
entire triangle, Booker Creek and Bowling Creek. That entire
corridor was damaged tremendously with hurricane,
with hurricanes and Tropical Storm Chantal. And this
development is right downstream of that. I also bring your
attention to the natural Heritage area. This has been
mentioned several times, but the impact of a 50 acre
development directly adjacent to this will do almost
irreparable damage. I see this is your opportunity to do
something really positive for species and water.
Thank you. Thank you. And Mister Bass, you
had registered. I just had you as an online speaker, so you're
fine. Thank you so much. Okay, now, I think I have gotten
everyone who signed up to speak. This is a public
hearing. I'm about to declare the public hearing closed. So
if you did not speak or you signed up and weren't given
your opportunity, this is your chance. Okay. On that, I'm
closing the public hearing. And this item is before the council.
Colleagues, questions? Comments? Go ahead. Council
Member Burris. I have a question for the
applicant. Somebody left their glasses up
here. They're not mine. Oh. Did you?
And sorry, Mr. Gauche, you do have time. But I'm going to let
Council Member Burris ask her a question first. Thank you.
Oh, no. You may. You may answer it in your response, so I'll
let you I'll provide deference to you to go ahead and respond.
And I can ask the question if it hasn't been answered.
Sure. So just a couple things I wanted to respond to and I will
ask Ted Halloran to hobble up here. In the meantime, there
you are. All right. So that he can help respond. You know,
some of the comments that you heard, I will say we had
extensive communications with the with representatives of the
HOA in the neighborhood to our west in Chapel Hill. We had
come to add some zoning conditions to our to our
project. As a result, we had extensive communications with
them. After Planning commission.
All you did. Ladies and gentlemen, what we
would. Not tolerate.
Is that. All right, let's be respectful. We're going to make
sure that we're respectful mutually. This will not be one
of those councils where we go viral on YouTube. Let's be
respectful. Please. After planning Commission, the
neighbors did hire an attorney, T.C. MorphOS, who I've. I've
had a few conversations with about this project, none of
which where where's it indicated that the neighbors
were asking for any additional, you know, commitments or things
like that to work on. So, you know, just just to give you an
idea of where we were at on all that with the I want to speak
on the the topic of affordability. This project has
an affordable component. I think some there was some
indication here that it's not actually affordable. I'm not
really sure what that means. Ted.
Child. Sorry, Kelly development.
Do we have a timer on Mister? Gosh, right now no, I you had
12 minutes initially, correct? Yes. Make sure that I'm keeping
track of time. Sorry. I'm not trying to be long
winded. Let me just have Ted come up and talk a little bit
about the affordable piece. Madam clerk, could you put
three minutes on the clock. Please?
Thank you everyone, I'll be brief. Just a sense.
Of the. Plan that.
We have. To build the affordable housing
out here. There's been a lot of questions raised about whether
it's viable or possible, or what timeline. So the market
rate developer will be dealing the real estate to us for free.
The infrastructure that's necessary for the affordable
housing will be provided for free. The site planning and
permitting, and some of the grading work for our pad will
be done at no cost for us. So we're already ahead of any
other fordable project that we would otherwise contemplate in
the city. Because these improvements are being done for
us by the developer. From there, the plan is to seek a 4%
low income housing tax credit award, which here in North
Carolina is not competitive. So the concerns about availability
of credit aren't matched with the reality, which is 4% low
income housing tax credit projects are not competitive
here in North Carolina. We further intend to secure a
nonprofit partner and secure real estate tax abatement,
which enables us to size up more firm debt. We intend to
work with Durham Housing Authority to process a rad
conversion to move folks out of projects like Cornwallis and
others, where there are folks living in conditions that no
one in this room has, you know, spent a night in a bed. So
these concerns about this neighborhood not being the
right neighbor, we consistently hear concerns from residents
who don't want to see projects next to them. That project
isn't affordable enough or it's not integrated enough, or it's
too hard to develop. And the reality is the alternative is
we've residents across the city living in housing that's not
livable. So the path ahead is going to take a few minutes to
add conversions, take time with HUD, but there is a plan and we
will be proud of the affordable project that gets built out
here at this culmination. Thank you.
Thank you Councilmember. Thank you.
Oh, Mr.. Oh, yes. Yes. Right.
So that didn't really get to the crux of what I was going to
ask, but thank you. Clay will provide some insight around the
4% live tech. My question is around segregation. So is it
can you clarify if the people who will have market rate will
be separated from those who are in the affordable units? Like
how does that look? Well, it's an integrated
community. I mean, to be clear, there is a market rate
developer and there is a separate affordable developer.
So are they going to be are the units going to be in the same
building? No. Are they going to be on the same road?
Yes okay. Okay. Because I'm thinking about what we did to
Rad conversion as was just referenced. Right. The idea was
that you didn't want a community of people all with
the same subject of background. You wanted to integrate them,
but you want to make it look like, you know, everyone has
equity around that. So I'm just trying to figure out in 2026,
I'll hold that. So will the conditions, will the materials
or the structure be different for the affordable component
than for the market rate? Yeah, absolutely. We're
building apartments as a part of the affordable housing
project. But I'll also tell you is that it is not simple and
often not possible to combine the financing for a low income
housing tax credit project with a market rate development, two
separate capital stacks. So in North Carolina, with almost
near certainty, projects are not integrated where you have
true market rate, unrestricted units and then low tech income
and rent restricted units, it would would make this project
unfeasible to accomplish it in the way you're describing. I'd
also say when we talk about the demographics of the
neighborhood, you know, we're saying that we're segregating
housing by building affordable housing on a small parcel.
We're integrating into the neighborhood as a whole,
because not many folks have an opportunity to live in a
neighborhood like this. So I think the lens through which we
view mixed income neighborhoods is critical here. If we look at
an acre, sure, we look at five acres. It's a very, very
different picture. Okay. Well, I just okay. Thank
you for that. Thank you for your additional proffers around
the school. And also, I did see some A.D.A. compliance in
there. These are humans and not props. As we think about the
people who stay in our housing across the city, more so. So I
want to be cognizant of that and that these are actual human
beings. And so when you think about the environment, you want
to ensure that people have a decent quality of life as you
if they are transitioning. So I would just want to like, lend
that to equity. I also have not heard enough addressing of the
environmental concerns, but I'm really just stuck on the
affordable housing piece. But I'll just yield my comments so.
Okay, thank you. Other council members, Council members,
mayor, anyone? I have a couple. Oh go ahead. Councillor. Oh
Council Member Kopac. Go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you, madam Mayor Pro Tem so I appreciate
everyone who's weighed in on this case. Want to acknowledge
the neighborhood and environmental concerns raised
and appreciate the proffers that have been brought to make
this a case worth considering. It's important to acknowledge
there are some real trade offs here that we have to to wrestle
with. Before I get into that, I just want to start with a
couple other questions of some discussions that have been had
around additional proffers. Has the applicant considered
construction of a of a greenway?
We have considered construction on the greenway. We actually
floated some language to staff on that. We will be building
portions of the Greenway, but the portions that we know we're
going to build, therefore, the ones that we would be able to
commit to in a zoning condition are ones that staff has
determined would be required by the code based on other
infrastructure that would need to be. So basically, the
portions that go along George King Road right of way in the
Lancaster extension, those are the portions that we know we
would build. And I think the staff analysis was that
actually those portions would be required to be built as part
of those road networks. Anyway. It is it is Ty's goal to build
as much of the Greenway as possible. However, that
Greenway, not all of it can be accommodated within right of
way. There are portions of it that go through the natural
heritage area. So that's something we're you know, we're
not comfortable making a commitment on for those
portions because we haven't actually studied it in that
much depth to say we know how to do it in a way that's going
to be respectful of those areas. So we have not made that
commitment. But we did we did consider it. In fact, we did
float that language to staff related to the Greenway.
Are there additional parts of the natural heritage area you
can commit to protecting? So we added some commitments
tonight, which include a 30 foot wide buffer along our
southern property line. Our southern property line is, of
course, where the natural heritage area is. So that
buffer is an X and natural buffer, meaning as it is that
that. I'm sorry. That would. So that's in the natural heritage
area. We also made a commitment tonight to prohibit land
disturbance south of the existing gas easement, which
all of that area south of the existing gas easement is also
Natural Heritage area. I think conservatively, we think that
of the amount of natural heritage area that's on the
property, you know, I think we're we're probably preserving
around 25% of it as a result. And keep in mind some of the
impacts of the natural heritage area are already required by
that road network that's been adopted in the collector street
plan. And for the lift station, which is part of our UEA.
There was a statement about all street trees native. Can you
make a commitment to all trees? Yes. Yeah. You did point that
out and I had forgot to mention that. Yes, our our current
condition says that all the street trees would be native
and we would remove the word, you know, street. So it would
be all other required trees would be native on this
property. Thank you. I'm going to pause
there for now, but I'd like to come back.
Thank you. Council members. Anybody else? Go ahead. Council
Member Rist. Thank you. Mayor Pro Tem, I
have a question about the road. Piece here. So I.
Know there I don't know whether staff or the applicant. So
there there is a concern. We heard about the previous
development, about the right of way acquisition. So so can you
help explain the right of way piece. Because your plan is to
is to complete George King Road, correct.
Well, no, our plan. Well, for purposes of this conversation,
oops, this might be the best slide. Although this isn't
quite if you go on GIS today, you'll actually see that George
King road realignment has been dedicated across the village
center. So the way that works. So this is our frontage on
George King Road, right. And then as it goes down, I mean,
all of this is a gravel road today. But since Lee Village
Center was approved, it's not necessarily related to the
approval, but the owner here has gone ahead and dedicated
the right of way for realign George King Road. So it
actually goes like this now. So the gravel road exists, but
there's a there's a new right of way that's a realigned
George King Road. So what we believe would happen here is
that we would improve George King Road along our frontage.
And then after it leaves our site, it actually will go
through the Lee Village Center property like that.
So you can you can do that. You've got this sort of on your
on site. You can do your part of it.
So the good thing about the portion that's on our side is
that we can actually dedicate the right of way that we need
on our site. So if we need 60ft, if we need 30ft, we can
just dedicate our site. The idea would be to shift that
road onto our site and then as it leaves the property, it goes
through the Lee village center, where the right of way is
already been dedicated. Okay, thanks for that. So and
how about Lancaster Road? So I know there's I drove through
the neighborhood today. There's a lot of signs. It's a traffic
calming community. Right. There's there's I think speed
bumps or speed humps or whatever. So so I know there's
concern about Lancaster being sort of like a sort of like a
pass through. Right. So can you talk more about the how you
plan to realign Lancaster and is that partly it's a traffic
calming piece or what's the what's the intent behind that
sort of realigning Lancaster. Oh so. Well, our intent behind
the realignment of Lancaster, which is in this deck. Right.
But and I should say, by the way, yeah. So if I can say
also, by the way, I did talk to some chapel town Council
members today who had also heard from constituents on
their side. And so there is concern about these wider
streets in the in the development around the country
club that are fairly calm. The people walking the street.
Right. So can you say more also what the street network would
look like on the on the enclave side, will there be sidewalks?
What's the. Will be ten foot wide sidewalks
on both sides of this road? It's part of the greenway
system that I was referring to earlier, this road. So our
intent in realigning it was to avoid as much as we can impacts
to this stream. And in particular, this little finger
that comes out of the stream. And also to try to avoid any
further impacts in the natural heritage area. So we're trying
to align this road through our property. So the endpoints are
fixed. Right. So we have to connect the Lancaster here. And
we're supposed to exit the property somewhere here. We're
trying to align this road in a way that crosses this stream in
perpendicular which is the requirement anyway for from a
permitting standpoint. And which avoids this, this finger.
And as much as we can impacts to the natural heritage area
won't be real clear. This is conceptual. But this I think,
illustrates this is not by any means an engineered. But I drew
this. So this is by no means an engineer road design. But the
idea is to avoid those those components on the site. What
the road will look like is dictated by the city's street
design standards. Right? So there will be ten foot wide
sidewalks on both sides of this road. That's just what the
standard is. And how wide will the streets
be? What of the lane widths? I'm gonna I'm gonna ask Tim,
who probably knows more about this specific road design
standards than than I do. Typically.
Tim Sivers community, those are. typically the.
Right of way is about. 72 foot minimum.
With those. Ten foot lanes.
Or ten foot. Sidewalks on.
Both sides. The lanes themselves are about 12 foot.
Wide, 12 foot lanes. It has that compared to what's
currently on the Lancaster on the on the other side, those
are. Pretty within the Chapel.
Hill area. Yeah. There's I believe Chapel Hill
doesn't have any of the sidewalks in that area. So I
believe that road I'm guessing is probably three lanes wide,
but that's an estimate. I have driven down it myself, so I've
driven those same speed humps that you're discussing. So I'm
guessing that's about maybe 36 to 40 foot wide.
So you're so you're guessing the street will actually be,
like, narrower on the within enclave?
Yeah. Potentially a little bit. And you have staff is
available. They may be able to identify the exact widths of
the collector requirements. But I believe I believe it's two
lanes at 12 foot. Okay. Yeah. If staff could comment on
that I appreciate that. Earlene Thomas. planning and
development. So yes, the standard.
Would be 212. Foot wide lanes with turn lanes
at, you know, major intersections as needed.
Probably the Chapel Hill side was constructed with three
lane. As a.
Three lane cross section, which would be typical, but we
usually only require that center turn lane at, you know,
an intersecting street when it's needed, necessary.
So then so a driver driving from on the current Lancaster,
the road would be would kind of narrow going into enclave.
Right. Based on our our Durham City cross-section guidelines.
It would narrow or neck down as you come into this development.
Okay. Thank you. That's my question for I'll save my
comments for later. Thank you. Anyone else have any
comments or questions? Okay, I have a question for staff. I
don't have a question for the applicant. And it might
actually be a question for Director Young because sorry.
Good evening. Can you remind me with the NC heritage
designation, there was something that happened at JC
peak where we were trying. It's not regulatory meaning it's not
it's not rules. It's it's a program. But it's pretty like
if it was regulatory, we'd have to follow it. Right. And a few
months ago, I feel like we had some information presented to
us because planning staff was interested in making it maybe a
little bit more than what it is now. Can you just remind me
kind of what the state's response was on that? Sure.
This was actually. I think maybe.
A couple. Of years ago now.
Staff had. Looked at.
Increasing some. Of. our environmental.
Regulations in the. Unified.
Development Ordinance. And one of the things we
explored was whether. We could. use we could.
Require that natural heritage areas.
Be protected. And we met.
With the state. I believe the state sent representatives.
To that joint. City county. planning committee
meeting. And the word that we got.
From the state was that their program.
Was never. Intended to be regulatory.
And they did not want us to turn it into a.
Regulatory program. So we backed off.
On those changes. Thank you. That was my.
Question. Mayor Williams.
Yeah, just. could you just for the sake of clarification, I
was listening to some of the comments and I just once again
talk about. The financing structure for why the the
affordability, the affordable housing units are separate and
we talk about materials. You know, what what what
differentiates that. Well Ted is coming up. Let me
just also point out, just just to be clear, the first
development agreement that the city entered into was for
affordable housing project that was in conjunction with the
with the market rate project actually off right in this
area, off Crescent. Wendell, with the same kind of setup
where the affordable units were not included in an integrated
building with market rate units. Instead, what it was was
very similar to this. It was a it was a standalone, low tech,
affordable housing deal with a market rate component in the
same vicinity. That's what it was. And the city approved a
development agreement for that. They actually changed the code
to allow development agreement for that approved development
agreement for that and Gap Finance that this project is,
is different in a few important ways. It doesn't need a
developer agreement. It doesn't need any city subsidy other
than that same thing that. Affordable housing deals are
financed with tax credits that get sold to banks, and the
compliance requirements that run with that last for 30
years. So these projects are structured as long term holds
by the developers. So and then to build in Durham I'm going to
own for 30 years at a minimum. The market rate development
model is different. Folks buy a site, rezone it, raise capital,
build a project, stabilize it, and then it gets sold. And so
you've got a capital stack that has to sit in place for 30
years, with one that is not going to that has to generate
returns to warrant the investment. And so in North
Carolina, with the rare exception of, I think Charlotte
Housing Authority did a true mixed income deal where they
wrote the equity check for the market rate units in downtown
Charlotte. That one exception, what you see are standalone
high tech projects built on parcels that are specific to
the high tech itself. And and that's been the case in Durham
when we think about the projects at the city's gap
funded over the years, it is standalone affordable housing
projects, the opportunity to build them in what I would
define as an higher income neighborhood is unique. A lot
of the affordable housing that gets built in Durham gets built
in qualified census tracks in lower income parts of the city.
So to hear that this project is viewed as not sufficiently
mixed income, I struggled to understand a little bit. And
then on the the mixing of units, we don't ask the
affordable housing community to build mixed income projects
themselves, right? They build 100% affordable. They come for
gap funding. Those get built. But we're asking the market
rate community to do something that the affordable housing
community themselves can't do. And to me, there's a disconnect
there. Thank you. I. I just wanted to
hear that again. I was fortunate enough to get
selected to be one of the 100 mayors in the US, or no. 100
mayors period in the world to be taken to Madrid last week.
And and I walked the city a lot. The city's over a thousand
years old, and I was just admiring how dense it was. I
walked because I could walk. Yes, there was still a lot of
cars, but the lifestyle was, was was different simply
because of the density. And things were accessible. It
wasn't always that way. They had to build today to get to
get to that point. And. I, I, I always struggle when I think
about, you know, the living conditions that we have here in
Durham. For some people and how we're trying to have a very
balanced approach. I think some of the concerns we had tonight,
what's what's really sitting tough with me right now is, you
know, the trade offs that we have to make in order to even
have this case approved environmentally. But I also
think about, you know, I think about some of our some of the
conditions in which some of our community members are living in
and how the ideal amount of emails that I get, you know,
mayor, can you please call Da and have them relocate me
somewhere and we don't have anywhere for them to go? That
that does bother me. And these are some issues that we deal
with in Durham that not a lot of people have to deal with
across the triangle. And, and so I, I don't want to discount
anything that anyone you know bought here tonight. But these
are some of the these are some of the tough things we have to
deal with. You know, could you tell me. One more one more part
about the actually, no, I'm just I'm going to leave my
comments there. Just I hear comments about, you know, based
on paper this should be XYZ. We should be this distance from
that, this distance from that. And you know, if it's not that
and we're not going, we don't need to approve it. And I don't
know any other way to get to where we are on paper. If we
don't density, you know, and I'm, I don't want to just put a
bunch of, you know, one type of housing up on the backs of
someone else and just totally tear the character apart. But
we do need to have multiple types of housing. This is
minimum 20% affordable, and we're having an affordability
crisis right now. That's compelling to me. One last
question. Could you tell me what if this isn't approved
tonight? Then what's the plan? Yes. So I had a slide about
that as well. Was that the the two 230 versus
91 versus 25. Yeah. Basically the annexation
rezoning would allow for the project as is 230 units, lots
of public infrastructure. And as you know, we've committed
20% affordable if if the annexation rezoning are not
approved, you know, we're looking at building this site
in the county, unincorporated Durham County on well and
septic, which ultimately is going to reduce the yield
significantly. There will be probably something like 25 lots
on well and septic. It wouldn't the lift station wouldn't be,
you know, necessary. Obviously on one septic and obviously the
affordable housing. I mean these lots themselves would
probably be just a lot would probably be, you know, in the
half to $1 million range. The homes would be probably 3 to $5
million in that scenario. Right. And that's that's
actually a lot closer, you know, when you look at, at some
of the houses that are listed in the Oaks, you know, you've
got a house listed on Helmsdale right now for 850,000. You've
got one listed on I can't remember the name Notting
Notting Hill for 2.1 million right now. That's you know,
that's the I think we could get those kind of prices here. But
that's not what, what we're actually asking for on the.
Thank you. Thank you. And I and I
understand that I don't shame anyone for the value of their
home. I know we need housing. We're going to we're going to
need housing at every income level, in every type of
housing. So I don't demonize that. I do have a question for
staff. If, if, if it's a if they built by right. The 25
lots, are they required to still preserve the
environmental nominee. The National Heritage Heritage area
or are they what is that still required? I guess what I'm
trying to say is or ask is if the if this is not approved,
then they go, they're playing by right. Are they required to
still protect the environmental the national heritage.
No. They could they could develop.
Single family lots. Within that that area. You have
to. Vote by.
Right. Okay. Thank you. So when I when
I think about these trade offs, when I think about, you know,
what our needs are in Durham, I understand that we're our MSA
is triangle is Chapel Hill and Durham. But what I do think
about, you know, the trade offs that we have here, the
affordability crisis that we have, the pain points that we
have here are, you know, their their preferences and then
their needs. And that's what usually drives my decision
making. So I'll be supporting the case.
Thank you. Council Member Burris.
And I just want to clarify. So like a couple of things could
be true that we do need affordable housing and a
variety and make sure affordable housing. But when
you talk about specialized populations and thinking about
you specifically mentioned Cornwallis in your statement,
and if you think about the current infrastructure, there's
there are bus stops right outside of that. And looking at
this, the closest proximity to a bus stop is 1.3 miles. So if
you don't have a car, then you're going to have to
basically handle that by foot. Thinking about if your children
go to school, you have a high school with 3.1 miles of Jordan
High. So I'm just saying, like and then 2.6 miles to the
nearest grocery store. And that's if you don't have access
to a car in transit. So I do agree that we do need a variety
of make sure housing. However, our neighbors should not be an
afterthought. And that's my point right there. So I would
have I do think that I appreciate some of your
properties offered. However, the environmental effects as
well as just, yeah, this affordable housing component
and what I've heard thus far does not compel me to vote for
this case. I'm raising my own hand here.
Sorry it's late. I have a question. I have an
understanding that there was conversations back and forth
with the homes in both Oak. I want to say yes, but villas.
Sorry. And maybe Oaks three HOA. Can you share with me
where did what the. When? Hold on. I'm trying to find the. I'm
going to find it, I apologize, it is late. Okay. What does it
mean to be in the boot and. Oh., six affordable units in the
boot of the 46 acre enclave track. What does that mean on.
The site? All right, so I'm just using
this slide as a proxy. If you look at the parcel, it kind of
looks like a boot. And this is the toe and this is the heel.
So the boot I mean generally refers to this section right
here. You know that's that's so at some point a memorandum of
understanding was pinned. I will say I don't believe we
ever entered into it formally, but one was Pin and it was
related to some of the things that the HOA representatives
were. Their constituents were concerned about and wanted us
to work together on to resolve. So one of them was, there's
these two roads right here, Dundalk and Hebrides, that
technically development of this site, regardless of what it is,
what would be required under the Durham code to connect to
these. I talked to planning staff about those connections
to Dundalk and Hebrides and planning staff here said those
are completely unimportant and they wouldn't mind if if those,
those streets or portion of the streets were closed such that
we wouldn't have to make a connection. We also spoke with
Town of Chapel Hill staff about that. They indicated the same
thing. They, you know, so this was something we thought we
would work on together with the HOA.
Another thing. That is still true.
Well, my my understanding is that neighbors are have are
pursuing these closures themselves right now. Okay.
That's my understanding. Another thing that the HOA
wanted to work on was what I will call a circuitous route
for the extension of Lancaster through the site, and that was
so as not to develop like a speedway through there, which I
mean, frankly, we don't want our residents to be dealing
with that either. So, you know, I think our motivations are
aligned, however, that road design is, is number one
happens at site plan, not zoning. And number two, a lot
of that is driven by the MPO. So we recognize that that's
something that we're gonna have to work on outside of the
context of the zoning. And the last one was the placement of
the affordable housing component. As I mentioned on.
So where does. That fall?
Different slide. Yeah. In that, in that the next picture, the
one you just had, where would that fall.
Yeah, I think this one shows these are the locations that
that we evaluated on the site would score under the current
light tag rubric for a 4% deal. And.
The. The HOS preferred this
location, which is something that we want. And frankly, I
think we probably prefer this location as well.
Preferred they prefer that one right there on the the lower
part of the screen. I'm sorry. The HOA preferred the on the
lower part of the screen. They preferred this one over
here by George King Road. It's been hidden by your
picture. Okay.
Oh I'm sorry. Yeah I okay my. Yeah but.
That's I know you all can't determine where like that's an
open question mark, but was there an awareness from the
neighbors part that that is in the heritage area?
Well, they're both in the natural heritage area. Yeah.
That is something that we discussed.
Yes. Okay. So that was made aware to
those neighbors that where would they wanted the
affordable housing was actually in the most environmentally
sensitive area. Well, out of two locations that
are both environmentally sensitive. I mean, we're
talking yes, I mean, they were aware of that, but that.
I don't. Lose the HOA. Maybe not all the
neighbors. I'm sorry.
I said, maybe not all the neighbors, just the hos.
The HOA representatives we received. Yeah. That's correct.
Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. And then as far as the
road, I mean, we've had to see, obviously when things come to
the TPO, which council member wrist and myself are both the
voting members, there have been adjustments on road alignments
and things like that. Right.
So it is not unheard of. It is not. An issue, at least in my
opinion, when things have had to move forward, we've been
able to do some things that are necessary around alignment. As
TPO members and as, yeah, that's where I'll leave that.
Does anyone else have any and colleagues or folks comfortable
with us wrapping up questions and comments in the next couple
of minutes? Okay. Thank you. Council Member Kopac. And then
Council Member Baker. And then I'm just going to kind of go
down and let folks do their last. Any last comments or
questions that folks have? We're just going to start and
then kind of come down if folks are comfortable with that.
And do we get our time from the first time or just the second
time? This is now your second time?
Yeah, I'll use like 30s the first time.
Oh, I see, I'm yeah. I mean as long as you're not going in six
minutes and we're. Good.
I mean, at a high level, our community decided in our comp
plan that this is an area where we're going to see more growth
in this corridor, more housing, more commercial, more transit.
And the updates to George King Road will bring infrastructure.
The proximity to Lee village will add bike in and walk
mobility, along with transit. And I always sympathize with
anyone who has concerns about what's being changed where they
live. But if we're going to achieve our goal of of a
polycentric city, the development in this area
alongside a Toa with the step downs nearby is kind of the
goal and the point of the comprehensive plan for this
area. It's significant that we're seeing 20% affordable
housing income restricted for people making $60,000 or less a
year, with proximity to employment and future transit.
And some people who make $60,000 a year or less do have
a car, and there will be other ways to access the future
mobility options. This area is going to bring in the questions
of the benefits, and the cost of growth is always a tough
one, but I think just considering ourselves a
progressive community in Durham, I think I mean, The
Oaks is a beautiful community. The ones nearby, it are
beautiful and I think that it's an equitable choice to have
this area welcoming new neighbors, just like we ask,
and often put the burdens on historically black and
gentrifying neighborhoods to accept more housing. I used to
be an advocate for low income housing tax credits for my
profession, and this is not low quality, segregated housing.
It's the same housing we're advocating for. And 505 Chapel
Hill Street. It's the same that we're supportive of in Bragg
Town neighborhood. And so, you know, it's okay for those
areas. I think it should be okay for, for for wealthier
areas that are developing as well. The environmental impacts
are what give me the biggest concern in this area. And I
think this is where the trade offs come in. And, and, you
know, kept me up last night. I don't think I've ever supported
a case. I'm planning commission or council that didn't align
with policy 79 around environmentally sensitive
areas. And professionally. I used to bring philanthropic
money to help support studies that did wildlife corridor
assessments. So this area is already stressed. I get it.
Like the Oaks development put stress on the forest and on the
natural heritage area, you know, and putting more growth
in this area will put additional stress. And I want
to be able to go along with the recommendations of TCC Wildlife
Resources Commission, EAP dost for how to improve the
proposal. Like that's what I want, but ultimately we can't
dictate that the development is done in a certain way. And so
we also have to understand the practicalities of what could
happen, even with even with a no. And, you know, the
Lancaster Street that's under adopted plans, that's going to
happen anyway. It's like you're going to see some development
happen in this in the natural heritage area. Regardless, it
does give me some comfort to know this is it, the periphery
that it does not rate highly for biodiverse qualities. It
does not disrupt the area. Wildlife corridors. We do get
more trees, but I want all the things for environmental
protection. And so that's why I'm struggling here. But I'm
struggling to if we adopt maximalist positions here, that
we have to be really clear eyed about the trade offs we're
accepting, including a loss of significant affordable housing
and housing overall, which, while it does have a harm for,
you know, the species that may have been identified, there's
also the endangerment of our people, of our residents. So we
talk a lot about species, but we also have to think about our
people and those who are most endangered at being displaced.
And that's where a development like this can be most
beneficial for neighbors who are in need of that housing. So
this is a tough one to weigh. I think there's definite pros
that align with our comp plan. There's definitely drawbacks
and the environmental side, and this is one that I'm going to
continue to weigh. So thank you.
Council Member Baker. I appreciate those comments.
Council Member Kopac I appreciate the deliberation of
my colleagues up here. You know, since.
My colleagues here hear me say this a lot, but since 2017,
we've sprawled by half the year of Manhattan. The vast majority
of approved cases in that time period don't have anywhere near
the quality of commitments that this case presents to us today.
That get us closer to the comprehensive plan. I think
that that each one of these commitments, it's not just
about giving us something or giving us that, giving us
something else, but moving us toward the comprehensive plan,
the community vision, the goals, the policies that were
laid out by the community. I voted for Lee village, right
next door. We had a lot of people show up, speak against
it, and I felt that that case crossed the threshold.
Threshold. It was a departure for me because I'm so used to
voting against cases that are large scale and on large
forested properties. But to me, it had the right combination of
the things that I am consistent on, which is about walkability
and walkability. You know, Mayor Williams, you talked
about Madrid density, diversity and design. That's what that's
what places like Madrid and other much very walkable cities
have. That is the there's the the ingredients of walkability.
And so this case provides public goods. And to me we need
cases that provide public goods that also have the combination
of walkability. Because walkability is sustainability
is equity. And I think that those are all critical
elements. So for me, until we adopt the LDC, which builds
much more walkable urban design into the fabric and into our
standards, we really have no guarantee of walkability unless
those are spelled out explicitly to me. We we need a
a paradigm shift in the way that we do things. In Durham.
Only 4% of our residents can can walk anywhere. There are
decent elements in this case that I, I had to sit back and
and listen to to the presentation and think a lot
about what my colleagues were saying up here. But for me, I'm
not going to budge from my position. I'm consistent. I
will remain consistent on what I believe is, is the dramatic
change that is that is needed in in the way that we plan and
build our city. You know, as far as approving an application
and it becomes what the presentation shows versus if
you don't approve the application, we will build
under the UN annexed land in the county. And the very low
density that that's not how I review these cases. I really
look at what they are truly proposing. And for this one, we
there's a lot of good in here, but for me, it hasn't quite
persuaded me and it hasn't crossed that threshold. Thank
you. I'll be brief. My final word.
So as a new elected official, I've learned over the past like
four months that sometimes we don't have someone's lived
experience. You may not want to make comments about what
someone has endured. And so I think about that in terms of
like for some of our people in our community who I've always
advocated for in terms of how they're treated in community.
So I'll just leave with that. We are currently in a drought,
as we all know right now, and as a result of growth, like we
have realized that, you know, trees have a purpose. We have,
I think, our environment for a reason. And so I really just
want to ensure that we are not setting ourselves up for future
harm and thinking about proximity to a major water
source and just about how. And then also the 100 year storm.
Like if you think about it right now for the drought, talk
to my dad are days like, we're going to need a hurricane to
get out of this drought pretty soon, and if you're a North
Carolina, you understand how that works. So again, I, I've
already stated my position on that, but I just want to make
sure that we are giving grace to each other and just yeah, in
honoring each other's lived experience and sometimes
knowing that is listening before you speak about other
people that you don't relate to.
Thank you, Council Member Rist and then Mayor Williams.
Thanks, mayor Pro tem. Yeah, I'm with the mayor in this. I
think, you know, we've seen the data, right? We're growing
rapidly. We the MTP shows we're going to grow or the the our
transportation plan shows we're going to grow by 50% in the
next 30 years, right? 90% jobs. The data shows during Durham
County, median housing prices have gone up 58% since 2019.
Prices are going up. People need places to live affordably.
I think our housing gap, estimated by city staff, is
like 25,000 rental units. We need for families. They qualify
for income, so we need housing. I think I also want to zoom
out. You know, we we get so focused on individual cases.
Right. But the truth is like, you know, it's and we gotta, we
gotta we gotta judge it based on the confines of this case.
But I've been around long enough. I'm the old guy on the
council, and I've been around long enough to know that back
in the 70s, when The Oaks was built, 70 or 80s people in Glen
Lennox were upset about that. Right? They didn't like the
fact that there was tearing down trees like in their
neighborhood. Right. So Chapel Hill has moved west, you know,
The Oaks was built. The first phase was built. And then
there's Meadow Mont, right. Meadow monster. And the folks
in the Oaks were mad about betterment because it was
taking down trees. Right. So we're growing. Ideally, we grow
within our urban growth boundaries. So we preserve open
space that we need. But who's to say who gets to pull up the
ladder and say, we got to stop here, right? I don't think
that's fair. We've got a comprehensive plan as as
Council Member Kopac referenced, that looks for this
to be a mixed residential neighborhood near a transit
opportunity area, I see actually abundance here. I do
see we talked about this before. I see a 20% of mobile
housing that's, you know, we talk about the need for
affordable housing. I think our plan requires Director Young,
what is the plan and vision? Maybe 15% affordable is our
goal right. This is a and we often proffer with developers
to get six, seven, 8% affordable. There's a developer
that's coming to us that's giving us 20% affordable.
That's above the goal we set from the get go. We need that
affordable housing. We also need partners who are willing
to like, I'm on the Housing Authority board. We need
partners that are willing to allow folks to transfer from
existing public housing communities as we're renovating
them. So that transfer of assistance we've offered is a
key thing. We need to be able to transfer folks as we're
renovating our key public housing assets, the the proper
stormwater hundred year stolen. That's a key proffer there.
That's we've got to protect our stormwater tree coverage is
great. It's also worth noting that we are building a
community here, right? We don't have all the infrastructure
that we need for the future. We're building towards that
highway 54. A bunch of us in a focus group just of the day.
It's one of the corridors we're looking at for bus rapid
transit. Right. That could be dedicated lanes. It could be
signal priorities, it could be enhanced stations. But that's a
corridor that will have bus rapid transit in the future. So
it's going to be more accessible by transit. I do
have heartburn about the natural heritage area. This is
something that Council Member Kopac referred to. Again,
that's something that I'm aware of. I am given comfort by the
fact that this area is surrounded by this large core
lands, which is also a natural heritage area. So there are
always tradeoffs we face. Part of our job here at the council
is to evaluate those. On balance. I think this case to
me passes the threshold. I'll be supporting it.
Thank you. Thank you.
Mayor Williams. Yeah, I'll just be quick
because it got really cold up here. My sinuses are just
draining really bad. I, you know, I think about why I, why
I'm here, why I'm sitting on this council. I'm here to be in
the, in the affirmative. Like I'm here to do something. I,
I'm not here. And and I want to be very clear. Each of us are
elected separately. We're up here to be a representative
body. And the mixed bag of opinions that you hear up here
are what the voters have chosen. So this is what you
get. So that means you're going to get a diverse school of
thought. For me, my perspective is my, my, my I understand some
things I can't control, right? I understand I have no idea
who's moving here, but when I look at the data, it's a lot of
people. And at some point in time, some of you all moved
here. Most of you all moved to Chapel Hill or. But you're in
the area. We're all in the same MSA. But what I can control is
the decisions I make. And in the middle of, you know, this
housing situation, we have this housing crisis of
affordability. The decision I make, am I going to make a
decision to be okay with 25 units or 230 units or 91 units?
Am I going to be okay with the the preference of keeping it as
is versus building on it? I try to I try to simplify it down to
this in my mind, and I and I try to do that in the most
sensitive way as well, because I know that you all have you
live where you live. The folks that showed up to talk, you
live where you live, and you are used to what you see and
what you have. And then when there are changes that are
coming, that's that's a big adjustment, you know? But I
also realize that, you know, we as a community are evolving,
you know, and and that and that matters. It matters to the
people who are looking for someone to live. It matters to
the people who are already living there. And so, yes, for
me, I do break it down to those trade offs of what issues do we
have and how do I address those issues and compare it to the
preferences that we already have? You know, so you're here
to diversity the thought up here. And and that's perfectly
fine. And I respect everyone's opinion. And and we fall where
we fall on it. And I respect yours as well. And I appreciate
everyone coming coming here tonight. But I, I you know we
have too many people that are looking for a home. We have we
have too many people that are, that are we have too many
college students that want to stay here but have no idea how
to get in the market. We have too many folks that are trying
to upskill and get out on their own and be independent, and
there's just too competitive. The market is too competitive,
so 20% affordable housing. I think we're I think the trade
offs are worth affirming this one. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to be brief. I really appreciate
these are we all know that these are hard cases. And
you're always you're always doing trade offs. I will be
supporting this case in large part because it does have such
a large affordability component, and also because it
doesn't involve city subsidy. I understand that disappoints
neighbors. I understand it disappoints the folks who have
to live there. We're all dealing with change in our
communities. And I do want to say very quickly that a lot of
the decisions that you all lifted up, Vision Zero, the
comp plan, a lot of the decisions we've made as a
council, I have been one of the yes votes on those decisions.
I'm the council member who got us the Vision Zero coordinator.
I'm the one who's been on the TPO denying MnDOT money for
road widening. There's lots of ways to be an environmentalist.
It's not just conservation. I appreciate all of the work that
staff did, especially in exploring how we can get this
NC heritage program, how it could actually be more
enforceable, more regulatory. And that was that was the state
at the very beginning of this night, I asked every single one
of you to please continue to participate, especially at the
state level. And so that is my urging tonight. We have a
motion in front of us. Motion number one, to adopt an
ordinance annexing Enclave at Little Creek in the city of
Durham and to authorize the city manager to enter in a
utility extension agreement with a Adobe Communities
Acquisitions, LLC. So move..
Second. I have a motion.
Second, Madam Clerk, could you please open the.
Vote? Could you please close.
The vote? The motion.
Passes 4 to. 2.
With council. Members Baker and Burris voting
no. Thank you. Next motion is to
adopt an ordinance amending the Unified Development Ordinance
by taking property out of residential suburban Dash 20
fall. Jordan Watershed watershed overlay be county
jurisdiction and establishing the same as planned development
residential 5.006 falls Jordan watershed overlay B to city
jurisdiction. Can I please get a motion.
So moved. Second. I have a motion a second. Madam
Clerk, could you please open the vote? Could you please
close the vote? The motion.
Passes 4 to 2. With Council Member Baker.
And Burris voting no. Motion number three to adopt an
ordinance amending the Unified Development Ordinance by taking
property out of residential suburban 20 fall Jordan
Watershed overlay. Be county's jurisdiction and establishing
the same as residential suburban 24 Jordan watershed
overlay be city jurisdiction. So moved.
Second have a motion and a second. Madam clerk, could you
please open the vote? Could you please close the vote?
Motion passes forwarded to with council members Baker and
Burris voting. No on motion number four is to
adopt a consistency statement as required by section 16605.
So moved. Second.
I have a motion and a second. Madam clerk, could you please
open the vote? Please close it. Motion passes unanimously.
Thank you. Colleagues, we have one last
item that we need to pass, which is our under supplemental
items. I did not add it to the consent agenda. So it's the
revision of to the 2026 City Council meeting schedule. Could
I please get a motion to. Move?
Second? Three.
I'm just gonna do it to approve a revision of the 2026 City
Council meeting schedule that rescheduled the Thursday, May
7th work session to May to Monday, May 18th at 1 p.m..
So moved. Second.
I guess to adopt an ordinance rescheduling the May 7th. Is it
two different ones? Okay. Thank you. Okay.
Let me. Yeah. We're just voting on the
first one. Madam clerk, could you you opened it. Could you
please close it? Motion passes unanimously.
Thank you. And then the last one is to. a adopt an ordinance
rescheduling the May 7th, 2026 work session to May 18th, 2026
at 1 p.m.. So moved. Second.
Could you please open the vote, madam clerk? Could you please
close the. Vote?
Thank you. Passes unanimously. I'll finish the meeting out.
You can pass it back to me now. Okay. All right. Meeting
adjourned. All right.