Welcome everyone to the East Lancing
City Council discussion only meeting of
May 19th, 2026. Uh the meeting will come
to order. Could we have the roll call,
please?
>> Council member Council Member Whan
» Council member Council Member Whan
>> here.
» here.
>> Council member Meadows
» Council member Meadows
>> here. Council member Singh
» here. Council member Singh
>> here.
» here.
>> Mayor Prom Griggsby
» Mayor Prom Griggsby
>> here.
» here.
>> Mayor Alman
» Mayor Alman
>> here. Is there a motion to approve the
» here. Is there a motion to approve the
agenda?
>> So moved.
» So moved.
>> Moved by Meadows.
» Moved by Meadows.
>> Second.
» Second.
>> Second by Griggsby. Any discussion of
» Second by Griggsby. Any discussion of
the agenda?
All those in favor say I.
>> I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Agenda
» I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Agenda
is approved.
Uh communications from the audience.
Um, I will call the slips in the order
that I have received them. First speaker
is Erica Zedzik Hernandez.
» Good evening.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak
this evening.
I'm an employee of the city of East
Lancing. I report directly to the city
manager.
My purpose tonight is share is to share
my experience working for Robert Belman.
Since the city manager reports directly
to you,
I feel it is important for you to
understand my experience.
In 2025,
Robert sexually harassed me
and was verbally abusive towards me.
His nickname for me was too easy.
The first time he said it to me, I had
no idea what he meant. As a defense
mechanism, I quickly turned it into a
harmless joke. He would frequently say
to me, "You're too easy." And laugh. To
me, it felt like he was insulting either
my intelligence or my sexuality.
Either way, I hated it.
But I truly didn't know what to do. He's
my boss and the city manager.
His former assistant witnessed him
calling me this nickname on numerous
occasions.
It got so bad that she pulled me aside
and told me she didn't like how Robert
talked to me. I told her I was fine and
I could handle it.
One evening, Robert and I were leaving
City Hall together. We were alone.
As we walked down the stairs, Robert
joked and said, "Come on, Pokey." I told
him that I'm slow on the stairs because
my knees are bad. Robert responded by
muttering, "Too easy." under his breath.
I felt disgusted and embarrassed.
I immediately pretended like the
incident never happened.
On another occasion, Robert threatened
my job.
We were discussing a grant and he asked
me rapidfired questions. He looked and
acted frustrated. When Robert is upset,
he tends to ask me questions in such
quick succession that I don't have time
to think of a response before he is on
to his next question.
As a result, I feel stupid and he acts
as if he is in control. Such was this
occasion. He angrily said, "Why do I now
have two grant writers? How much do you
and unnamed co-worker make combined in
one year? 150,000. That would ease the
city's budget deficit if I didn't have
to pay for two grant writers. His former
assistant witnessed this interaction and
looked visibly shocked.
Robert tried to intimidate me to follow
his direction. He gave me instructions
and I saved and and I asked him
questions which led to a discussion. As
he walked away from me, he mumbled
something and laughed. I asked him what
he said. He looked at me and smirked. He
walked towards me, leaned in very close,
and whispered, "I trump everybody."
He laughed out loud as he left my
office.
I reported these incidents on others
using the proper channels as directed by
city policy, an investigation opened and
closed. To my knowledge, Robert has not
been held accountable or received
consequences for his actions. I do not
see measurable change in his behavior.
Yes, the surre the sexual harassment and
outright verbal abuse directed at me has
stopped, but that is a very low bar.
When someone treats you in a degrading
way and makes you feel less than, it
stays with you.
I am deeply concerned that he could
repeat his behavior. Publicly, the city
manager can appear friendly and
thoughtful. However, he is a different
person behind closed doors.
Every day, I never know which Robert I
will encounter, and it is stressful to
consistently work in this environment.
Three members of the 2023
East Lancing City Council hired Robert
Bellman. Even though his past in Sageno
County is well known, I filed my
complaint against the city manager
during the tenure of the 2025 city
council. I ask this council to do what
the previous councils could not. I ask
you to break the cycle of abuse and hold
the city manager accountable.
Silence perpetuates abuse. And I am done
being silent.
>> You have 30 seconds remaining.
» You have 30 seconds remaining.
>> Thank you, Rashidita Harrison.
» Thank you, Rashidita Harrison.
[applause]
» [snorts]
>> Good evening. My name is Dr. Rashidita
» Good evening. My name is Dr. Rashidita
Harrison. I'm a candidate for State
Senate District 28, which is this
district, a community member,
and I am a mother of a little boy.
I attended the press conference last
week and had the honor of hugging Karen
Kirby, Isaiah's mother. I attended
because Isaiah could have been one of my
students. And when I look at his
picture, I know he could be my son.
I am also here. I'm sorry. I'm here
tonight for two reasons, actually.
[laughter]
Um, first I know firsthand the fear
black mothers have for their children,
knowing the dangers they face every day
for just existing while praying that you
never have to face losing your child to
state violence. I am also here because
what I witnessed last week made
something clear to me. When a city's
response to community grief is to manage
it rather than meet it, there is a
governance problem. [applause]
This is not just a police problem.
Honestly, I couldn't watch the video.
I've been watching black men killed
publicly by police officers my entire
life. So, I read and watched reports and
talked to community members, and what we
learned is officers opened fired on
Isaiah even as non-lethal options were
available.
His mother counted at least 17 gunshot
wounds, including many to his back.
The family's attorney stated that
officers continued to fire after he had
already fallen to the ground.
The question before this council is not
simply what the law permits. The
question is what kind of community are
we choosing to be?
I also want to name what happened in the
room last week. This council voted to
reduce public comment from 5 minutes to
three and to ban the act of clapping or
other forms of human emotion to issues
of justice and injustice. A former
council member named it clearly. She
said, "Now that the black and brown
people are showing up, suddenly there's
a resolution that reduces our public
comment.
These measures appear to give the
council reason to bar community members.
Essentially, you've criminalized the
sound of solidarity.
We are living in a moment where black
and brown voices are being silenced and
shut down at every level of this
country, federally, legislatively,
institutionally.
I would hope that here at home we would
choose differently,
that this would be the place where we
resist that urge and not replicate it. I
would hope that we choose democracy,
allowing the people's voices to be
heard.
I am imploring you, please govern using
a politics of care where the people are
centered. It is not only possible to do
your jobs and govern empathetically.
It is only it is the only way to
ethically actually do it. The people in
this room are not a problem to be
managed. We are your constituents and we
are watching.
Thank you, Rebecca Quasin.
[applause]
My name is Rebecca Kasein. I come here
as a private citizen, not on behalf of
any commissions, organizations, or
campaigns I'm connected to. I'm here
because I'm furious. I'm here because
Isaiah Kirby's blood is on your hands.
For more than six months, this community
has come before you, begging you to
confront the racism inside the East
Lancing Police Department. We came here
with testimony, with evidence, with
pain, and every single time this council
chose self-preservation over
accountability. Isaiah Kirby's blood is
on your hands. In August, two innocent
young black men were pepper-sprayed by
an East Lancing police officer.
Innocent. And instead of protecting
those young men, Chief Jen Brown went on
television and painted them as
criminals. She released their names,
charged them, lied about what they had
or had not done, and she just continued
to spread false narratives. She warned
people that minorities from outside the
community are coming here to commit
crimes. There there are children. They
live here. Blackness itself was just
enough to just blackness itself was
enough to justify suspicion.
This is why Isaiah Kirby's blood is on
your hands. We demanded accountability.
We demanded Chief Brown resign or be
terminated. We demanded discipline from
every officer for every officer
involved. Instead, the city circled its
wagons. One officer quietly resigned and
everyone else was protected by this
machine. Isaiah's blood is on your
hands. And while residents begged you to
address the racism, this council spent
its energy trying to silence descent.
You tried to bully the Human Rights
Commission when we when we investigated
the discrimination. You advanced racist
ordinances disguised as as public
safety. At your last meeting, you went
so far as to pass rules threatening
residents with removal or arrest for
clapping, cheering, or cheering at
public meetings. Clapping. cheering,
human emotion. You call it decorum.
Let's call it what it really is.
Control, respectability, politics, white
supremacy wrapped up in parliamentary
procedure.
You are more disturbed by loud residents
than by armed officers brutalizing black
people. You are more offended by
disruption in this chamber than by
violence in the streets. You sit here
demanding silence from the public while
empowering people with guns, badgers,
and immunity to kill. Isaiah's blood is
on your hands.
Then came Isaiah,
a human being in the middle of a mental
health crisis. A man holding a knife to
his own neck. A man who needed
intervention, compassion, distance,
deescalation, and trained trained crisis
response. I know those responses are
possible because I've lived it. I had to
call 911 for a family member having a
mental health crisis. The East Lancing
police who responded treated my family
member with patience, kindness, empathy,
and humanity. Nobody fired 17 bullets.
Nobody treated this person like a
monster. Nobody decided their life was
disposable. And so I have to question uh
this coun I so I have to ask the
question this council refuses to
confront. Why was compassion available
for my family member but not Isaiah? Is
it because my family member was white?
Are we living in an aparttheid city
where public services, safety, patience,
empathy, and humanity are reserved for
people with less melanin?
>> Because that's what this looks like.
» Because that's what this looks like.
Isaiah's blood is on your hands.
This department loves to brag about its
CRIT training, mental health, first aid,
deescalation, community policing. You
hold press conferences and trainings and
photo ops to convince the public that
these officers are prepared to preserve
life. But when the moment came to prove
it, they emptied 17 bullets into a man
in crisis. 17 shots. Not one officer
decided that Isaiah's life was worth
slowing down for. Not one officer
decided to try and use non-lethal force.
Funny how this department had no problem
pepper spraying innocent black men a few
months ago, but suddenly forgot every
non-lethal option when a black man's
life was actually hanging in the
balance. That is not public safety. That
is not protection. That is a publicly
funded execution. Isaiah's blood is on
your hands. And every single one of you
who stays silent shares the
responsibility. Every council member who
hides behind waiting for investigations.
Every official who refuses to challenge
Chief Brown. Every person in this body
who cares more about the city's image
than the lives being destroyed but uh by
the people acting in your name. This did
not happen in a vacuum. You were warned
over and over and over again. You were
warned that there was a cultural problem
inside this department. You were warned
about racism, about escalation, about
hostility towards the community. And
instead of acting, you treated the
people sound the people sounding like
the alarm like they were the problem.
Now a man is dead. Isaiah's blood is on
your hands. And I do not want to hear
thoughts and prayers. I do not want to
hear carefully scripted condolences.
>> 30 seconds remaining.
» 30 seconds remaining.
>> I do not want to hear about another task
» I do not want to hear about another task
force, another statement, another
promise to listen and learn. We are far
beyond that. What happened to Isaiah
Kirby was not an unavoidable tragedy. It
was the predictable outcome of a police
culture that this council continues to
protect. A culture where black people
are treated as threats first and human
beings second. A culture where criticism
is dismissed, accountability is delayed,
and violence is excused. You built this.
You defended it. You enabled it.
Isaiah's blood is on your hands.
>> Thank you, Kath Edel.
» Thank you, Kath Edel.
[applause]
» What was it?
Can you repeat the name please?
>> Kath Edel
6 months of us pointing out racism and
more than likely it'll be sexual
harassment that takes him down. That's
white supremacy.
300 years of humiliation, abuse, and
deprivation cannot be expected to find
voice in a whisper. Martin Luther King
Jr. While this council has made it clear
they would prefer that we whisper, we
are here to say hell no. A system of
oversight that recover requires public
comment is a system that does not want
to be informed. A system that treats
black dignity like a provocation and not
a birthright is a white supremacist
system. We are angry. We are frustrated.
And we foretold this outcome for months
and years before today. By now, most if
not all of us have seen the video
footage released by the city of the
police killing of Isaiah Christopher
Kirby. Most of us sitting in the gallery
can hold space for two truths. Mr.
Mock's assault was horrific and Mr.
Kirby's death was unnecessarily caused
by excessive force committed by the East
Lancing Police Department. After
impaneling national and local experts on
use of force, the East Lancing
Independent Police Oversight Commission
crafted a draft rewrite of ELPD's use of
force policy in 2023. The department
declined to implement our suggestions
and chose to stick with the bare minimum
standards and current paramilitarized
training. One suggestion we made was to
add the following. The de the department
recognizes and respects the sanctity and
value of each human life and gives the
highest priority to the preservation of
human life and safety for all people
involved. The department initially
declined but later added this because it
was required for accreditation.
We suggested that they keep the fourth,
fifth and 14th amendments in the
forefront as the lowest bar. They
declined. The fifth amendment reads in
part, "No person shall be deprived of
life, liberty, or property without due
process of law." Mr. Kirby was deprived
all three. We also suggested they
include the US Supreme Court decision
Tennessee versus Garner, which concluded
that the use of deadly force is
reasonable if the officer has probable
cause to believe that the suspect poses
a significant threat of death or serious
physical injury to other officers or
others. How is a man laying on the
ground already shot multiple times who
appears to be holding a knife to his own
throat a significant threat? We are
angry. We are heartbroken. And we know
that 300 years of humiliation, abuse,
and deprivation will not end today. We
know this for many reasons, including a
comprehensive police violence report
released by the nonprofit research
organization Mapping Police Violence
shows that at least 121 people were
killed by law enforcement officers
across the United States in 2025. So far
in 2026, 449 individuals have been
killed, including 96 black people, or
22% of the total deaths in a country
where black people comprise
approximately 12% of the population.
There have only been five days so far
this year where police officers not
killed someone. 95% of the deaths
involving police officers resulted from
police shootings. We also know that
fewer than 1% of police related killings
result in officers being charged with a
crime with charges filed in only eight
cases in 2025. Furthermore, black
prosecutors, particularly black women,
primarily represented those who pursued
criminal charges and police related
deaths from 2013 to 2025. Although black
women make up only 1% of elected
prosecutors nationwide, they account for
8% of prosecutors who filed charges
against officers. 9% of those who
secured convictions and 16% of
prosecutors who brought charges in two
or more deadly force incidences.
The Michigan's AG office is run by a
white woman. The Ingam County prosecutor
is a white man. There is no justice for
a black man in a system of whiteness so
entrenched on preserving white
supremacy. As this council continues to
focus on process and procedures,
families are hurting in large part
because process has never meant justice.
East Lancing can and must do better than
the lowest bar. I will close with
another quote from Martin Luther King
Jr. For years I have heard the word
wait. This weight has almost always
meant never. Thank you.
>> Thank you Erica Schmidt deal. [applause]
call and speak soon.
>> Hello, my name is Erica Schmidt deal. I
» Hello, my name is Erica Schmidt deal. I
am a social worker and I'm a resident of
East Lancing. I am here to ask for
resignations from Jen Brown and I was
not planning to ask for a resignation
from Mr. Bellman, but now I will um
having heard the first speaker of today.
Um I find it appalling that Mr. Bellman
would state that he is going to be
transparent and that the city will be
transparent um with the Michigan State
Police in the investigation when Ellie's
um ability to do anything in terms of
advancing racial justice in policing in
East Lancing has been curtailed. Um
really use of force and racial profiling
are not issues that just go back six
months. I know um thanks to our many of
our community members, these issues are
getting much more attention in the last
6 months, but East Lancing has always
been a sundown town. Um I think
everybody knows that. Um and I think
it's time that we stop pretending it's
not. Um I think we need some radical
changes um here in our city um to make
it more welcoming and more safe for
people of color. Um, and I think we
should really consider when has the
NAACP ever been on the wrong side of
history and if they are calling for
resignations, we should listen.
>> Thank you. Annie Kase.
» Who was it?
>> Annie Kase.
Hello, my name is Annie Kase. I am 6
years old and
and I in
>> kindergarten
» kindergarten
>> in kindergarten at Red Elementary
» in kindergarten at Red Elementary
School. I ca I came here
months ago talked
about how the police weren't fair to
people with different skin colors.
My young My five's teacher, Miss Brace,
taught me how to be an upstand. She
taught me that when something is wrong,
you should you are supposed to speak up
even when it is hard.
My kindergarten teacher,
>> Miss Man
» Miss Man
taught me about perseverance, not giving
up when things are hard.
And so I have to come back again
and again because
grown-ups are [laughter] who
are supposed to
lead
and protect people
are not listening.
A man named
>> Isaiah
» Isaiah
>> Isaiah died after police did use their
» Isaiah died after police did use their
>> training
» training
>> training.
I'm autistic.
>> Autistic.
» Autistic.
What happens when I am older?
If I am having a really bad day, are
they a are the police going to hurt me
or help me? If you say that they are
going to help me,
it it is it's only because of
the colors of my skin.
My mom taught me that when something
when someone is hurt
or having a hard time, you are supposed
to help them
calm down and keep everyone safe.
Are you you you're
>> not supposed
» not supposed
>> you're not supposed to
» you're not supposed to
>> make
» make
>> things worse.
» things worse.
>> things worse. Grown-ups tell kids
» things worse. Grown-ups tell kids
our
>> to use our word
» to use our word
>> to to use our words to not to be
» to to use our words to not to be
>> patient
» patient
>> patient and to care about other people.
» patient and to care about other people.
I think I think
>> police
» police
>> police officers should have to do that
» police officers should have to do that
too.
I do not think police people
should
treat be treated differently because
of the colors
of their skin.
I do not think people have having a
really bad day
should be killed. Uh it is not fair that
kids have to keep asking their grown
keep asking grown-ups to do the right
thing.
I want East Lantern to be a city where
everyone is safe
and treated fairly.
I want
>> 30
» 30
to listen
>> to listen when people say something is
» to listen when people say something is
wrong. I And I want to
>> you
» you
>> you to be brave enough to fix it. Thank
» you to be brave enough to fix it. Thank
you.
>> Thank you, Nicole Keyway Biber.
» Thank you, Nicole Keyway Biber.
[applause]
Good evening. Um,
interesting to see the in the agenda the
training update that we're going to be
privy to apparently later says things
like deescalation, trauma recognition,
and mental resilience,
ethical policing, building trust,
professionalism.
I think it was maybe Sunday. I actually
had an interaction with the East Lancing
Police Department on my suburban street.
Very quiet place. Um I look out the
window, I see one of their vehicles,
three officers across the street from
me. There's a black family. Um there's a
young man standing and speaking with
them. [clears throat] Well, even right
now, my heart starts racing.
So, I go out and go to get my mail
because it's across the street. And I
ask my neighbor, "Are you okay?" He
says, "Yeah." I said, "You gave them
permission to go in your house?" He's
like, "Yeah, I'm okay." I was like,
"Okay." And I just go across the street
checking in on him. And one of the
officers says, "Ma'am, we'll come talk
to you afterwards." Like, if you want. I
was like, "Whatever. Okay." So, I stand
and I watch and uh there's a bit more
movement and um eventually the young man
goes inside and uh they come over to my
side of the street and um they say, "Oh,
did you have a question about
something?" I said, "I just wanted to
make sure he was okay."
They're like, "Oh, well, they called us
in." I was like, "Okay, thanks. I just
want to make sure he was fine." That
could have been it, right? That was the
interaction. I got and we talked a bit.
He said, one of the officers says, "Is
there a reason you assume maybe things
weren't okay?"
I was like, "Wow." I was like, "Okay." I
mean, I'll bite. I'm not scared to speak
up. I was like, "A lifetime of
experience." I was like, "I'm a brown
person. I grew up in a black
neighborhood. I see something like this.
I'm going to ask if they're okay."
They the officer who by the way is the
biggest tactical gear vest can picture
ends up saying to me uh saying to me uh
well I don't even think of that. I was
like well okay well I do and I guess you
have the privilege not to.
>> He says I'm not hyperfocused on race.
» He says I'm not hyperfocused on race.
So, who here thinks that's not an
implication that I am?
>> But of course, when I say that, I'm
» But of course, when I say that, I'm
like, "Oh, well, I don't think I'm
hyperfocused. I was telling you my life
experience."
And he says, "I wasn't saying you were.
I was just talking about me." Oh my
gosh.
I have This is over and over the way
it's framed. The problem is us
there. You don't y all don't see color,
right? That's supposed to be like the
the magic wand that says racism doesn't
exist except in your head.
So, you see things like trauma
recognition.
I directly disclose my life experience.
His return to me is, "You're
hyperfocused on race." Oh, um, no,
excuse me. He's not.
Building trust and professionalism.
Incredibly condescending.
geared up with tactical vest does not
make me feel safe.
So, y'all are the ones sitting in these
positions. You can call for a
resignation of that police chief and it
sounds like you need to do one for the
city manager as well.
And by the way, limiting people's time
to comment. I was kind of proud of East
Lancing. I'm like, wow, we get five
minutes. I have so many situations in my
life where I get just bare bare few
minutes to say something that's in this
case a life and death matter.
When you're limit time, you're
undermining the voices of differently a
the differently aabled. Did you think
about that?
>> I've encountered so many people are so
» I've encountered so many people are so
nervous or not used to public sper
experience. Our voices matter deeply to
one another. That's why people are
probably watching at home. That's why
people came here. We want to hear each
other. Why don't our voices matter to
East Lancing leadership?
And and what is it? You're thinking to
lead us too.
>> 30 seconds remaining.
» 30 seconds remaining.
You should be listening and thinking
this is the most important part of every
single meeting because it is.
[applause]
Thank you, Kayla Gomez.
[applause]
Hello, my name is Kayla Gomez, resident
of East Lancing. Um, I'm up here
basically to again ask for the
resignation of Jen Brown and
Belman. So, everybody else has done a
great job. I will let them speak.
>> Thank you, Carla Forest Huitt.
Good evening. My name is Carla Forest
Huitt. Um, I spoke last week about uh
how
much
it is important for us to move forward
in a different way. Um, all the voices
that shared their opinions today are
important. I don't think that we can
move forward without trying to involve
change. We cannot disregard the things
that are said. Silence from leadership
is a dismissal. Um
using policy as a as a stonewall to
prevent voices from being shared is also
problematic. I think that um
the employee who came forward and shared
her story should be listened to and this
shouldn't be the platform where it is
shared. It is really really horrendous
that someone who had this experience has
to come publicly and share this in an
open forum. In addition to that, my son
is here today as a person that I care
deeply about and there are other
mothers. Rashidita shared her story
about being a parent and I think that as
a small community, we have the ability
to make changes that are impactful. We
can make it where East Lancing can be a
place where when you come, you know, the
police offer is going to tell you good
morning and wish you a good day. not
dress you down,
>> right? And it is so appalling to me that
» right? And it is so appalling to me that
we cannot
we we hide behind this idea that what
there's potential danger. But by putting
officers in this space, you're inviting
that vibration. I do not understand why
this is the move that you make.
All of you are live have lived
experience and this has never happened
in this space since we've been doing
this in the Hannah community center and
I have worked here and this is something
that I do not think will happen unless
you invite that and I also think that
the training that our police officers
have on a global scale and on a national
scale needs to change because this is
not something that
helps us respond to the needs of our
community. Police officers are supposed
to protect and serve, not dominate
[clears throat] and kill.
And so with that said,
what are you going to do going forward?
I mean, so many voices have been shared,
recorded, things have been said, things
have been put in the news. There is a
history. There are things that have been
done before this council that have
worked. Why are we not looking to to
those changes? Why aren't the rep why
isn't there representation in the city
that represents the diversity of our
community? Why when we put people in
leadership positions, they do not
represent our community? This is why we
continue to have the same decisions.
This is why a lot of the work that I try
to do to create spaces of belonging has
been rolled back when I left. And I I'm
really really tired of of trying to hope
that you do better. I think going
forward, the weeks, the days, the
months, every decision that you make
going forward should be a thing to do
better to include voices. Even if you
don't like what is being said, listen
and think about how it might be
something useful, impactful. If you
don't have children, talk to people who
have children and experiencees
that are are meaningful. Okay? that it
is it is sheer terror a mother feels
when she lets her child go into the
world knowing that when they grow up the
world will start seeing them differently
because of their skin color and I've
seen it happen when when Isaiah was
small he used to be adorable and then
just by by association he becomes a
person of interest and he's still young
and I'm not making it up. It is not in
my imagination. And so, as others have
said, we need to count hold our police
officers accountable. When people do
wrong, they should be held accountable.
It should not just only be for some.
Okay? It should be for everyone.
Everybody should be held accountable for
when they do wrong. And I think that
>> 30 seconds remaining.
» 30 seconds remaining.
>> Um, I'm really disappointed. I'm very
» Um, I'm really disappointed. I'm very
disappointed. I'm so disappointed it
hurts.
>> Thank you, Josh Huitt. [applause]
Um, hello everyone. Um, I really have no
idea what I'm going to say.
I feel like I'm trapped in this loop
coming here. Um, it's it's it's tough.
But either way, um, last week, um,
during commissioner comment, Mark
Meadows, I think he addressed something
Taj Mika said. And she said that pretty
much if you saw the video footage,
chances are most of us would not have
been here. Mark Meadows said he doesn't
think that's true. It's interesting that
you guys address stuff when you choose
to address stuff and important stuff you
guys just choose not to address. I want
to ask you, Mark Meadows, and I hope you
can can answer this question when you
when you have your commission to
comment. You said you you pretty much
said that um, what James Mccuris Jr.
from the NAACP said in terms of the
officer lunging um Isaiah Kirby lunging
at the officer, you said what he said
was contradictory. You said that he
lunged at the officer. I showed the
video to so many people and I watch it
myself. I even showed it to a police
officer. I have a cousin who's a police
officer in New York. I I was like, man,
I called him. I was like, objectively,
I'm not going to tell you what I think.
I want you to look at this this video
footage objectively. Call me back and
tell me what you think. I asked him, did
the police officer lunch? He gave me a
lot of feedback about a lot of things
that were handled in his opinion, not
correctly, but some things that were
handled correctly as well. Just to be
honest with you guys, I asked him
Swissily, did the police officer lunge
at did Isaiah Kirby lunge at a police
officer? And he said no. Um, so my
question to you, Mark Meadows, is I'm
pretty sure that you saw the video
footage that came out Friday. Just
address that for me. Like if if if you
were wrong, just admit that you were
wrong. Um, that's all I'm asking. Um,
Robert Belman, I hate to go back on
this, but the reason we're in this
position is is honestly because of you
and and the decisions that you made in
terms of hiring Jen Brown. I mentioned
this in public comment months ago, and
again, I had a sit down with you and I
asked you not to hire Jen Brown. So,
again, a lot of this stuff is seeming to
be reactive, but again, it's it's it's
not reactive. Again, we're just
frustrated and we've been asking, we've
been asking, we've been asking and you
guys are just not listening. when a lot
of community members came showed up to
for the meet and greet for the police
officers that were were running for the
police chief position. Again, I said
this in public comment. You you made the
whole thing seem as if we had some sort
of our our input would be valued, but
again, it was just a complete joke. You
didn't listen to us at all. Um so again,
this is why we're we're in this
position. Um Kerry Singh, you might
consider yourself white. I I don't know
if you are. You have a husband who's not
white. Clearly, you have a son who is
clearly obviously not white. I just hope
you guys don't wait until this happens
to your own kids that you start taking
action. Please, you guys stand behind
these institutions and all this talk
about lawsuits and all this BS. What
happened to those guys downtown? It
never had to get to a lawsuit. You guys
should have told Jen Brown, "Hey, let's
just meet together and talk and we can
make this right." So, don't say just
because it's a lawsuit now you can't say
anything again. Don't wait till it
happens to you to say something and do
something. Um, Chuck, I don't have
anything to say to you. Um, Eric Alman,
Jen Brown said that minorities come to
East Lancing to commit crimes.
The criminals I'm seeing actually also
came from outside of East Lancing.
Robert Belman doesn't live. He lives in
Sageno. I think Kel said like 85% of the
police officers are are from outside of
East Lancing. You're from Canada. you
came to United States to do the things
that you do when you retire from MSU and
you and and you decide to you and your
wife Kathy Swedllo and you guys decide
to retire, you're probably going to run
back to Canada and leave the mess for a
lot of people to clean up. That's not
cool at all. You have no kids here. You
have nothing that that's keeping you
here and making you want to do the right
thing. You're going to run back to
Canada and that's it. You're gone. We
don't need we don't hear from you
anymore. You don't come here. You don't
come to somebody else's country to do
the things that you're doing. Again, I
wonder who the criminals are here.
Robert Bellman and you, Mark Meadows. My
wife used to work for the city. She's
had interactions with you before. And I
was to say, you know, Carla, Mark seems
to me like like a decent guy. And
I I keep having some sort of level of
hope in you and Carrie Singh to do the
right thing.
I've been saying this for months. I've
been asking you guys for months to do
the right thing. Steve Wheelen, I my
wife has had interaction with you as
well as a police officer.
I don't know much about you and that's
why I've never said anything. I've never
come up here and said anything bad about
you because I don't know much about you.
We need three people. I asked for one,
but I realize one is not going to make a
lot of change in terms of the stuff that
we're trying to do in terms of policing
and just racial justice in East Lancing.
I'm asking for three of you guys. Please
do the right thing. Steve Wheelen, Mark
Meadows, Kerry Singh, please just again
I've been asking for months. Please do
the right thing. Eric Alman, I shook
your hand last week. Um, and I thought
like after all these people gave public
comments about like not limiting public
comment to three minutes that you would
do the right thing. And again, you just
continue to disappoint. Um, yeah, that's
all I got to say. Y'all have a good
night. All right.
>> Thank you, Amanda Morgan.
» Thank you, Amanda Morgan.
[applause]
Hello. Thank you. I'm going to take a
sip real quick.
I am here today as a guest. Um, I stuck
around this town because after I went to
MSU and I really liked it. I I liked
this culture and this community. I felt
like we had a mix of people and and and
a a middle class that was progressive.
I'm here today to kind of address one
simple thing. Bureaucracy
versus community and leadership.
You can't be a leader in bureaucracy.
You're a rules and order people. We're
seeing that here today. When you use
rules and order to tell what the
community what to do, you galvanize a
movement. Congratulations.
You've galvanized a movement.
You know, the best way to um reduce
public comment is to listen.
You know, pepper spray is not a
deescalation tool. A vigil is.
And just because we have rule and order
that silos information up and down a
chain of command,
um there was no nothing that stopped you
from holding a vigil.
Mayor,
people are here today because they're
challenging you to grow,
to take the community as a whole, not
just be a bureaucrat that um uh takes
care of the people who put money in your
pocket,
not just take care of white culture and
middle class and academia.
I'm a white person telling on myself
because I care about you all.
And you're kind of doing it wrong.
You're do you're doubling down on power
and control, not an act of listening in
community.
In June uh in February 2020, George
Floyd lost his life to a police officer.
In June 2020, I talked to my uh business
that I work for that's public mental
health and I said, "There's a problem
coming and I'm worried."
And in that letter, I described exactly
what I was afraid of.
[sighs]
I didn't tell the bureaucrats in my
business that stuff because I wanted to
be a good old tushy. Good tush. I'm
sorry. A good, you know what I mean? I
told them because I cared about the
people in the system that were doing the
jobs that things were coming and I was
using my foresight to try to prepare us.
I am here today to continue to advocate
that you all strip off some cultural
privilege that you received and the
higher up you go with power the more
people kiss your butt. and bureaucracy.
Praise goes uphill and [ __ ] rolls
downhill. Excuse my language.
I will speak to you today, Chuck. I see
you. It took a lot of um acclimating to
white culture to be where you're at.
Sometimes we have to completely shut off
our our community and what it's going
through to survive white culture. and
your community today is just asking you
to be brave enough to risk your
whiteness.
Um, they will have your back if you call
this BS out. Same for you. Your
husband's a man of color. You're a white
woman. And until you do the work, you
can be a racist, too.
Again, I go back to I stuck around this
area and community because I really like
this space and place and people. It's an
intersection of of
strength and power.
I'm really sad and I'm not surprised
that white culture in MSU and East
Lancing are doing the bureaucrat way.
Rule and order. And by the way, if this
is the advice of your city manager,
he's really doing you wrong.
>> You have 30 seconds.
» You have 30 seconds.
>> Before the next meeting, I hope you all
» Before the next meeting, I hope you all
set up a vigil. People may not show up
because they don't trust you or set up a
uh I don't know something. At this
point, you got to step down and listen
to people.
I appreciate your time.
>> Thank you. Uh, [applause]
» Thank you. Uh, [applause]
Yanka Marillo.
Good evening. I am a concerned Lansancy
neighbor and a mother of a mixed Afro
Latino who's 5 years old. I used to live
in East Lancing as well. I stand before
you tonight carrying grief, anger, and
urgency after the killing of Isaiah, a
young black community member that got
shot by police. Too often, these moments
are reduced to headlines, statistics,
investigations, or public relations
statements.
Our community deserves better.
We deserve transparency, accountability,
and action, not silence, delay, or
defensiveness.
We deserve systems that protect life
while acknowledging race and not
regardless of, but acknowledging race,
neighborhood, age, or background.
Acknowledge treatment differs based on
race, ethnicity, and skin color. That's
a good start.
And we deserve leaders willing to
confront the reality that black and
brown community members continue to
experience policing differently and more
dangerously than others.
Tonight, I ask the council to do more.
Invest in community-based safety and
crisis response strategies.
Community-ledd. Let your community tell
you they know the best way to do things
for community by community. strengthen
accountability measures and civilian
oversight. Commit to ongoing dialogue
with impacted families and communities,
not only in moments of tra tragedy, but
consistently.
This is not a conversation about anti-
police or whatever we want to call it.
This is a conversation about
pro-accountability
and pro-humity. We've lost humanity.
We're losing humans, literally.
For many black communities, um, black
community members, incidents like this
reopen generations of pain and fear.
Young people are watching closely.
They are asking whether their lives are
truly valued and whether those in power
will protect them or protect systems
from scrutiny. Your response matters. We
cannot build trust without truth. We
cannot build safety without justice. And
we cannot ask communities to heal while
avoiding the changes necessary to
prevent future harm.
>> Thank you, Abby Tiki.
» Thank you, Abby Tiki.
[applause]
Right. I currently serve on the East
[clears throat] Lancing School Board,
but my comments today are my own. Mayor
Altman, I urge you to reject the idea
that we should simply let the process
play out. Delay is not neutral. Delay
has consequences. And you were not
elected to observe problems. You were
elected to respond to them. And I know
you're capable of acting quickly when
you choose to because when a drunk
driver destroyed my elderly white
neighbor's mailbox, you were there to
check in on her before I even made my
morning cup of coffee. So, I have to
ask, where is that same urgency now? Why
does a mailbox seem to inspire faster
action than the lives of young black
men?
[applause]
Waiting for another procedural step pro
protects bureaucracy, but it does not
protect public the public. Strong
leadership is politically inconvenient,
and I understand the attorneys and city
manager do not want you to speak out or
take action, but you were not elected to
protect lawyers, procedure, or liability
management. You were elected to make You
were not elected to make the city
manager's job easier or give a failing
chief of police endless opportunities to
demonstrate that she understands the
population she is serving and is capable
of protecting them. Your job is to make
sure they are doing their jobs. History
will not remember who followed
procedure.
I support the demands that will be put
forward by the Citizens for Justice
group later tonight and I ask that you
act on them immediately. And I also
serve as chair of the Lancing Regional
Smart Zone. And I am charged by the city
of East Lancing to promote tech
entrepreneurship and uh stem the flow of
brain drain out of this area from MSU.
And I can't do that with the reputation
that we're building here in the city
right now.
I am also a crisis advocate for the MSU
Center for Survivors. I believe
survivors. I was also once party to a
lawsuit against a municipality for
gender-based pay discrimination
and I met you councelor council member
Singh at a gathering when you were
campaigning at Moren McCabe P house and
I asked you what you were going to do
when this exact thing happened because
we knew it was going to and I think you
said something about allowing more
opportunity for city employees to be
able to air their grievances or
something. And was not a great answer,
but I thought that's okay. She's on the
campaign trail. Probably nobody's asked
her that yet. Hopefully, she'll think
about it now. Is that what this was? I
know Miss Hernandez. She's a friend of
mine.
Please, all of you do better.
>> Thank you, Tashmika Toro.
» Thank you, Tashmika Toro.
[applause]
» Hello. I am trying to gather myself
because I also know Erica. She is a
former employee of mine and I am so full
of rage.
I'm not sure that you are aware of what
just happened.
Um I'm a survivor of child sexual abuse.
Um most of my body of work is related to
sexual violence. Most of my body of work
is related to stopping people from being
violent in intimate ways.
The patterns of violence that have to do
with power and control are happening
here.
When survivors speak, you silence them.
You shorten the time that they can
speak. When people show up for them,
you close off half the room.
When they tell you you protect the city,
you do not protect the person. The only
reason for any of you to sit here and
act like due process matters is because
you are protecting this [ __ ] city
from when they win that lawsuit. Because
then you will really be broke.
>> The reason why you are okay with what
» The reason why you are okay with what
has happened to the black people in this
community is because you are operating
on power and control. You have allowed
this city to operate on the same
dynamics that allow sexual violence to
happen in the first place. You are
sitting in a dis right here with a
perpetrator of sexual violence. You have
enabled police violence against your
against your own community that shows up
every day and you act like you're being
victimized by it. You act like this is
the worst possible thing that could
happen that you have all these people
you have to listen to. Do you know how
much love and faith it requires for
people with generational trauma to get
up and come here and talk to you every
week as if our humanity is in question?
There are people here who won't speak to
you because their nervous systems can't
handle it.
>> And you should [ __ ] leave.
» And you should [ __ ] leave.
[applause]
» We are not waiting for a process. If you
wanted to do something, you could. If
you wanted to choose the people over the
city's budget and a the risk of what a
lawsuit means, you could. If you wanted
to believe Erica when she came the first
time, you [ __ ] could have done it.
You are victimizing this community by
making us wait. And I hope you
understand that. That you are in the
lineage of white supremacy that didn't
allow black people to even move here in
the first place. in 1968 when the HRC
was created.
[applause]
» You ask us to come, you say we're
listening and nothing happens. We ask
you questions, you say, "I don't know. I
need your help."
What more could we tell you? What more
policy proposals could we bring you?
What more statistics could we bring you?
If you would like the info, if you'd
like to, my name is Taj Miko. can find
me. There is literally no one else with
this name. But if you would like the
information about how child sexual abuse
and perpetration of violence and the
dynamics come together to create exactly
the [ __ ] dynamic we're experiencing
right now, let me know.
I have a digital archive that I would
love to send you. This is unacceptable.
It is unacceptable that this is what you
require of people who are being
oppressed by the police in this
community.
When you go back in that room and you
talk,
you should not, first of all, be sharing
the table with someone who sexually
harassed one of your one of your
employees.
>> First of all, second of all, you can do
» First of all, second of all, you can do
things now. You can fire Jen Brown
today.
>> You can fire this sexual predator right
» You can fire this sexual predator right
now and you can offer a [ __ ] policy
that actually changes the way that the
police interact with people of color in
this community because THEY ARE DYING.
BECAUSE A CHILD SAT ON THE FLOOR CUTTING
HIS OWN [ __ ] THROAT AND THEY SHOT him
more than 10 times
and we all watched it and you know just
like [ __ ] sexual violence and the
Epstein files you all want to tell us
what we saw like I don't have eyes in my
head like this is not the first time or
like this is the first time we've ever
seen police shoot black people
there was no lunging there was a child a
human being who is hurting themselves
And then they performed medical aid.
>> Hey bro, we want to help you.
» Hey bro, we want to help you.
>> Just put the knife down.
» Just put the knife down.
>> Oh, get the chest seals. You don't even
» Oh, get the chest seals. You don't even
roll them over. You zip tie his hands
and leave him on the ground to die.
It is unacceptable. You should be
ashamed of yourself. If you are not
ashamed, then you should be embarrassed.
It's disgusting.
>> Thank you. Max Millian Muckleberry.
» Thank you. Max Millian Muckleberry.
[applause]
Max Millian Muckleberry.
[clears throat]
Hello. Uh, so I'm actually My name is
Max Huckleberry. I'm from Lancing.
And I did work all day, but then I drove
myself here to do this because that's
how much I care because I'm horrified.
You know, like when people when I first
heard about this happening, I was like,
"Oh, no."
Um, it didn't happen again, did it?
Right. I mean, you know, the thing that
cops do where they like hurt people and
they didn't need to that they do all the
time. You know, this isn't even the
first person in proximity to me through
community that has been killed by the
police this year that I know. Like, this
is like crazy. This happened 10 minutes
from where I sleep at night.
It keeps me up, honestly. Like [snorts]
I like to usually try to take all the
information available to me before I try
to write something to say at a council,
but
I could only watch one body cam angle
one time
because it was so terrible. I will never
unsee that ever. I hoped if you watched
it, you will never forget it either
because what I saw was,
you know, we don't know what happened
before that, but you know, he's a
suspect and obviously that's he
shouldn't have done those things if he
did. I don't think anyone's arguing
about that. But it didn't even look like
he was running at the police. He was
just running. He did something terrible
and he was running away from it. That's
what it looked like. And then they shot
him multiple times. He fell on the
ground, started hurting himself with his
own knife, and then they shot him more.
How is that okay?
Like, and then they use a riot shield to
pin his hands down after shooting him
over a dozen times
just to grab the knife and handcuff him
like he's still a threat somehow
>> as he's bleeding out.
It's incontable.
Those people should be fired. And
honestly, if you ask me, I'm not I don't
know much about the law, but like at
least manslaughter charges. Like, oh my
god.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Maybe they didn't mean to kill him, but
» Maybe they didn't mean to kill him, but
they [clears throat] did.
And just because someone commits a crime
or may have committed a crime doesn't
mean they should be murdered. Right.
>> And if you don't all take a stand
» And if you don't all take a stand
against this, you will be complicit in
an execution without due process.
» And I don't even know what's going on
with this guy. It sounds really bad.
>> Uh Jennifer Brown should resign in
» Uh Jennifer Brown should resign in
disgrace. I mean, I don't know how she's
still here, how she got hired in the
first place. On God.
Um,
yeah. But this, you know, this has been
keeping me up at night and I I hope it
keeps you guys up at night, too.
Thank you, Virginia Caldwell.
[snorts]
» [clears throat]
» So, um, this is the first time I'm
coming to the council to speak and I'm
just really hoping that we're all not
wasting our time.
I see a lot of poker faces
>> and I'm hoping that behind these poker
» and I'm hoping that behind these poker
faces are hearts
» that are receiving
what a community is saying.
I understand that we can only do the
best that we can with the information
that we have at the time, but it seems
like there's like a master's degree of
information coming into you right now.
I can't imagine what it's like to be in
your shoes,
but I'd like to share with you what it's
like to be in mine.
I have three children, two of them being
boys.
We're Chicagoans. I came up here to MSU
for college. We stayed. I stayed.
24 of my 28 years as an adult have been
in East Lancing.
The four years we were in Chicago when
we had our two sons, Laquan McDonald in
2014 was gunned down by the police.
He had a knife in his hand. He was also
going through mental health issues.
He walked away from the police officer
that was demanding that he drop the
knife.
The police officer said that Laquan
lunged at him.
and then unloaded his clip. He was shot
17 times. I think it was only because of
the body cam footage that we really
found out the truth that he was just
shot.
After that happened, I decided we were
moving back to East Lancing because I
wanted to be in a small community.
I didn't want my children to have to
face the aggression
that I saw happening.
Here we are
12 years later.
Do you know what it's like to be a mom
and have to sit at the table and
rehearse what to do if they ever get
pulled over by a police for a traffic
stop?
Do you know how much time I've wasted?
It's not a waste because I want my kids
to come home.
I have to explain to them that you have
to be calm so you don't trigger the cop.
You have to remain calmer in this
situation so they don't think you're
aggressive. Because you know, cultural
competency says that we all communicate
differently.
And so some cultures when they're
passionate,
they speak louder, but that's
interpreted as aggression.
Have you had that conversation with your
kids?
Have you sat at the dinner table and
wasted time talking about how to engage
with the police and not to over
advocate for yourself so that you're not
looked upon as a threat?
right now. I'm passionate.
I looked into how many non-lethal
options
there were
that could be used. And I know y'all got
the budget for it cuz I pay taxes.
>> As a homeowner in the community, I pay
» As a homeowner in the community, I pay
taxes. And I am demanding change for my
pre-teens.
who will be driving soon.
I don't need anyone
not understanding how to deescalate.
There's CPI training. I've worked in
mental health. Maybe these young
officers need to go to a behavioral
health unit and understand what it looks
like when someone is having a mental
health crisis so that they can be better
on their feet to an analyze the
situation.
None of this is okay.
And I guess I came here because I just
wanted to make a comment. But then after
hearing the comments and looking at the
responses, I'm asking where are the
hearts in the room?
30 seconds remaining. We're out of
hearts.
There doesn't need to be a wall here.
We're a community and we need to solve
this. I don't care what any other city's
doing. I don't care what any other state
is doing. Change happens here because
people want change. Change can happen
instantly.
Instantly today, right now, change can
happen. We can make decisions, but walls
have to come down and hearts need to
come out and we need to see everyone
else's struggle.
Thank you for your comments. Your time
has expired.
Uh, Cadia Ericson.
Hello everybody. Um, as you said, my
name is Cadia Ericson and I hold many
titles, but I'm coming to you today as
just a citizen. Um,
I've been thinking about what it is I
would say. And um, as I'm listening to
everybody talk about Isaiah, it made me
think a lot about the students I had
from MSU this year. um young minority
students um undergraduates who were
juniors and seniors. And um
the day after Isaiah Kirby was murdered
was a very quiet day in my office. The
students who were normally laughing and
so joyful and excited for life were very
quiet,
very upset, very depressed. And as the
reporting came out and I listened to
people describe Isaiah as intelligent
and humorous, somebody who was gentle
and kind, I thought of how that's
exactly how I would describe my students
that I get to spend so much precious
time with. And
I watched
the murder of Isaiah too many times um
because statements had to be written.
And so I unfortunately had to continue
watching and see all of the camera
angles and watching his distress,
hearing his distress as he brings a
knife to his own throat. And then to see
that the police officer's response is to
shoot him at least three more times
was a lot. Um I unfortunately in my very
short life have witnessed a lot of black
trauma, a lot of black bodies murdered
um at the hands of police. Unfortunately
I have had to give comment like this
before. Maybe not necessarily here.
Um,
and I also think about how
not too long ago and for several months
in a row, every week that I could make
it here, I was asking you to consider
humanity just like all of they are for
the homeless in the community because
for far too long you considered how you
could treat them as inhumanely as
possible and get away with it.
And those two things are connected.
They very much are connected. Your
willingness to be cruel to the
vulnerable, if you can codify it in the
law, is upsetting,
very deeply upsetting. And then here we
are in this situation which was
predictable when you consider how
welcome week went last year, how all of
that unfolded, how it continues to
unfold and we are here today and now
someone is dead.
Isaiah was supposed to graduate this
year.
Isaiah had plans for what he would do
after he left MSU. he wanted to go down
to Texas
and continue his work with animals.
And I think about how my students spent
the last academic year filling my brain
with fantasies about how they too would
just as freely as they dream in my
office
get to live that out.
And I can't help but just dwell on how
unbelievably cruel it is to think of
about how Isaiah freely dreamed about a
future he wanted to build for himself
and it was stolen
likely by officers who are undertrained
for the populations that they're dealing
with. Um,
I am once again encouraging you guys to
make the right decision for your
community. You know, I said something to
you guys several months ago about how
you cannot arrive at humanity and
dignity when you start in a place of
power and control.
>> You have 30 seconds remaining.
» You have 30 seconds remaining.
>> And you've heard a lot about how you
» And you've heard a lot about how you
need to step away from your urge to
engage with power and control a lot
tonight. And I suspect until you
actually make moves that are visible and
tangible to the community, you will
continue to hear that. Um, you once
again have the opportunity to do
something different. Model real
accountability for the community and
display real leadership by applying
pressure you can to ensure MSP's
investigation is actually independent.
>> Thank you for your comments.
» Thank you for your comments.
Those were all the slips that I had. Is
there anyone in the audience uh who has
not yet spoken who would like to address
the council please?
If you could state your name for the
record, please.
» Yeah. My name is Rasha Thomas.
I'm going to remove my emotions and put
aside the rage.
My wife and I moved out in East Lancing.
Uh she graduated from Michigan State. I
know the police are shady. I get pulled
over like twice a night, twice a week,
visiting my fiance. Got one moving
violation in my whole life. I'm 51 years
old. Pulled over way over 100 times
these slants. So, I know the deal. I
know how to move. You know, it's it is
what it is.
We have two kids graduate from East
Lansancy High School doing phenomenal.
My daughter just graduated from Eastern
Michigan. My son's on a full ride D1
football scholarship down there. We are
terrified when they come home to visit.
» Terrified. And I'm not a scary dude. I
can't protect my kids if they want to go
down to the strip where they went to all
through high school. They want to just
visit with their other friends on
holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas,
because I don't know what the hell y'all
going to do.
>> We already know you don't have to do
» We already know you don't have to do
nothing wrong.
You can just be accused of something.
I'm not a big guy. I'm not small either.
But my son is 6'5, 285, playing D1
football. My daughter's a foot shorter
than him. So if she drives her little
brother somewhere, he look the bum thug
dude, as y'all like to call us now,
thugs, that's got this girl and and all
this stuff. Another someone said
something about teaching your sons how
to act in the car. I'm like, "Son, just
be still. You can reach the dashboard
from where you're at,
daughter. Just do what you want. Roll
all windows down. Hit the dome lights.
Do all of this. Why? So you don't die.
» Sorry about that. I got a little
emotional.
>> Dig this. I hear a lot of stuff about um
» Dig this. I hear a lot of stuff about um
[clears throat]
police training and whatnot.
It's always an excuse as to why they did
something wrong.
I think maybe trying to have a solution,
not just being upset or angry. Get some
better people.
[applause]
» Get some better people. It is a very
strenuous job, a high stress job, a very
important job, a very deadly job.
>> Y'all got some bums out here being cops.
» Y'all got some bums out here being cops.
>> Not all of them, but enough. Obviously,
» Not all of them, but enough. Obviously,
if you are that damn scary when you have
to go into a situation, that's not the
profession for you. Period.
>> If you are not a good leader, you won't
» If you are not a good leader, you won't
be a football coach. If you're not a
good doctor or assessing doctor stuff,
you won't be a doctor. Some jobs because
you want it and you didn't excel at
something else and they're hiring does
not mean you need to get that job.
That's what no shade to anybody, no
emotion, not attacking anyone.
UPS is hiring. The post office is always
hiring.
>> You cannot be an EMT and then run in to
» You cannot be an EMT and then run in to
help somebody and save their life and be
like, "Oh, they they mouth look nasty.
I'm not I'm not getting close to them."
It's your job. So if you got a pool of
people that's not from this community,
come from God knows where to police or
help this community and they're scared
of the community that when something
like this happens and it is a high
stress level situation, it could be
dangerous. It was dangerous and your
first thing is to pull your gun be like,
"Stop, please stop." Boom, bang, bang.
Come on now. You don't need that job.
>> Period. You don't You just don't need
» Period. You don't You just don't need
it. Find something else. If you're not a
leader, Jim Brown, get off.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Why do I'm not gonna assume that. It
» Why do I'm not gonna assume that. It
seems to me like a lot of people
would like to try and defend something
instead of having all the proof why it
should be removed, just not removing it.
We're going to keep it because we're
going to make it right. I don't
understand that.
I always say no better, do better.
I'm really hoping that you guys have
heard what everybody has to say, that
you know better
and you actually start doing better.
>> I ain't taking no cheap shots at nobody,
» I ain't taking no cheap shots at nobody,
but there's so much more that can be
done. And I'll be damned. Y'all just be
like, whatever. Stonefaced all across
here. No emotion.
You don't got to clap. You ain't got to
be special. Just listen and do better.
>> Seconds remaining.
» Seconds remaining.
>> Thank you. Is there anyone else in the
» Thank you. Is there anyone else in the
audience who would like to speak,
please?
» Please state your name for the record.
>> Good evening. My name is Neil Kunman.
» Good evening. My name is Neil Kunman.
I'm a resident of East Lancing,
Michigan. And I apologize for not
getting a card in. I just arrived in
town.
I'm imploring each of you. I know each
of you individually.
I've worked with you. I have a
tremendous respect for the abilities
that you have. I am imploring you
to listen to what is being said tonight
and to do far better than is being done.
I too watched those tapes
and I was
saddened and angry
by the fact that our chief of police led
me to believe
that that young man was running at a
police officer with a knife and that's
why guns were pulled.
I'm not excusing what that young man
might have done before he was running
down the street,
but he was running down the street.
Anybody who watched those cameras knew
that he was not attacking
anyone.
And when he was brought down
and told to put his hands behind his
back when he had a number of bullets in
his body already and probably was in a
state of shock if not dying right there
and then shot I don't remember if he was
shot again after that and I really don't
care whether he was or not. I have been
astounded. Those of you who know me
better than others know that I spent an
awful lot of my life professionally
working in and around state government.
And I have been so saddened by what is
happening in our country and in our
world by people who are in positions of
power and are not
using their power
and their responsibilities to their
constituents to do what is right.
And I believe that we have a
responsibility
as a community and I think as our
elected officials that responsibility
lies with the five of you and we need to
figure out how to make this change so
that we don't ever have this kind of
situation again. And I don't know where
you're going to find police officers,
but when I heard that those police
officers, one of them had at most three
years with our force, some of them were
there for a couple of months, and I
didn't know that they were not, many of
them members of our community.
It's just way too easy to do what they
did. And I understand it's not an easy
job. And I understand it's a stressful
job, but there is
unbelievable disdain for life
that causes one to pull a trigger
>> on a young person
» on a young person
who was not attacking them
>> and who from the looks of the arms that
» and who from the looks of the arms that
I could see on those cameras could have
easily
taken that young man down without having
to shoot him, but after the first shot
could probably have handled everything.
And I just implore you, first of all, I
implore you
to seriously consider getting rid of our
chief of police,
>> a person who talks about
» a person who talks about
minorities coming into our community
to do criminal acts. When the It sounds
like the people who used to tell me when
I was on the school board that the
minority kids that come into our schools
or who are causing the problems with our
scores, that wasn't the case. That just
wasn't the case. And we hear that kind
of rhetoric in our country all the time
now from the highest levels. And it's
disgusting and it's disturbing.
I believe in government. I believe in
democracy and I believe in
accountability
and I would like to say I believe in the
five of you. I would like desperately to
see you do what I believe is right.
Thank you. [applause]
>> Thank you. Is there anyone else who
» Thank you. Is there anyone else who
would like to speak?
>> Please state your name for the record.
» Please state your name for the record.
>> Good evening. Kelly Ellsworth Etches.
» Good evening. Kelly Ellsworth Etches.
I want to remind you of a fun
fundamental promise that seems to be
lost on the East Lancing Police.
That fundamental promise located in the
14th amendment of the Constitution
called due process of law.
when state or local governmental bodies
have the authority, the power to take
life, liberty, or property.
That's why it's there. So that there is
a due process.
Mr. Isaiah Kirby did not receive due
process.
Your position comes with great
responsibility.
And here's your opportunity to write
this wrong.
Remove Jen Brown and Robert Bellman.
[applause]
» Thank you. If you could state your name
for the record, please.
>> Good evening. My [clears throat] name is
» Good evening. My [clears throat] name is
Farhan Omar. Uh, I wanted to discuss a
few things real quick. Um, this case is
not about the difference between
stopping a threat. This case is about
the difference between stopping a threat
and continuing to use deadly force after
that threat no longer exists. For
example, imagine an intruder that breaks
into your home and steals your property.
The law still places limits on what you
are allowed to do. For example, you
cannot shoot a person in the back as
they flee. Even though they broke into
your home and they stole your property,
you cannot shoot them because they are
no longer a threat. The justification
for deadly force disappears.
The same principle applies here. The
moment Mr. Kirby was struck by the
initial rounds of gunfire, he no longer
posed a threat to the officers.
We know this not from speculation,
but from one of the officers own words
when they said, "Let's use less lethal
force.
Those are not the words of someone
facing an immediate deadly threat.
>> Those are the words of someone
» Those are the words of someone
recognizing that that danger had already
passed.
So there was no need to keep shooting
that young man.
He did not pose a threat to those
officers or to the community any longer.
With that being said, I want to directly
address Mayor Alman.
Mr. Almond, you are gambling with black
people lives.
You are single-handedly gambling with
black people lives.
You pose a colossal danger to this
community, to the black community. You
pose a bigger threat to the black
community than the chief.
Some of the things that you put on this
agenda.
Some of the things that you put on this
agenda, whether it's intentional or not,
it is harming this community, the black
community, limiting how long we can
speak. Sergeants in arms in this place.
Really? How many times have we all
witnessed after a Michigan State versus
Michigan game, a bunch of white kids
setting couches on fire in this city?
>> How many times have we seen white kids
» How many times have we seen white kids
climbing poles in this city?
How many times have we seen black kids
setting tire white kids setting tires on
fire in this city? I've never heard a a
chief described them as a problem to
this community.
I've never seen a mayor try to limit the
voices of white people when they pack
this room.
I've never seen or heard Sergeants and
Arm being recommended.
When I look at you, Mr. Almond, you
remind me of the governors back in the
day and the mayors back in the day that
that used to use the National Guard
against MLK.
They use they used to use the police
force,
the dogs, the water hose.
It's 2026.
We see it.
We notice it.
Stop it. We've been coming here for
months, for weeks, telling you guys a
black kid is going to die in this city
if y'all don't stop.
I've come out here. The black community,
black leaders have come out here. The
NAACP have come out come out here. It
wasn't enough.
And then guess what? Another black
person is going to die in the city.
Unfortunately,
and then what? What is going to be a
response?
This is the same body that has made it
impossible for Dana Watson to to do her
job as a council member.
>> You guys ran her out of counsel.
» You guys ran her out of counsel.
It is you guys.
It is you Wheeling. It is you Mark
Meadows. It is you Almond. And is you
miss Singh that keep passing every
single harmful law or ordinance in this
city.
It is y'all
and it's also the city manager which
which responds to you guys. You guys are
their boss or his boss. So therefore,
the blame comes to you guys.
I'm so sick and tired of the excuses.
I'm so sick and tired of these everybody
just looking at us in disgust as if
we're the problem. Really? Have you ever
been pulled over by a cop? Do Do you get
scared when you get pulled over by a
cop? I do. And my record is just as
clean as yours, Mr. Hallman. I have full
insurance just like you, but I still get
scared. Not because I'm a criminal, but
because I'm black.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
>> Thank you. Is there anyone else who
» Thank you. Is there anyone else who
would like to address the council?
Le June I was not planning to speak but
there's been a group of people meeting
in the community and they formed a
coalition called Citizen for Justice
and we've kind of tried to concretize
all of the things that you've been
hearing here tonight in terms of eight
demands
and that we hope to follow through and
work with you in bringing about
We come in the spirit of Amos who said,
"Let justice roll down like waters."
Micah, who said, "I will tell thee, oh
mortal, what is right, and what does God
require of you, but to do justice, love
mercy, and walk humbly with God."
So,
our first demand
is for the immediate removal of the
police chief, Jen Brown, through
termination or resignation. We've talked
to some of you and you indicate to us
that the city council does not hire. So,
our second demand is going to ask for a
meeting with Mr. Bellman so we can talk
about things within your jurisdiction.
and we request a meeting before May 29th
to talk about a series of things. Now,
let me go back to
the number one request which we are
making and you've heard that in detail.
In my experience, when someone
is leading an organization and multiple
things happen, at minimum, you generally
remove that person
even if you're doing an investigation.
And we're kind of puzzled why she has
not at least been temporarily, but we're
requesting her removal. And we do that.
She might be a nice person, but that's
not the issue. She has lost her
credibility.
>> And when one lose their credibility,
» And when one lose their credibility,
they're ineffective as a leader.
The other five demands, and my T clock
is ticking, is we want a
police policy rewritten with the East
Lancing Independent Police Oversight
Committee that requires extensive
anti-racism training for all East
Lancing employees, approved by the
director of diversity, equity, and
inclusion.
We want
uh a police policy regarding
deescalation.
And would you bring those sheets up? I
don't have time to go through them in
all details.
>> We want to restore full funding for
» We want to restore full funding for
Ellipot and HRC.
Require input from Ellip and HRC on
various things. And I don't have time to
go through all of them, but what we're
going to do as a coalition is to
continue to monitor these and ask you to
act upon them in a reasonable time.
So
you've heard those demands
and we think they are reasonable. Now,
we also have empathy for Mr. Mock. We
want people to know that we wish his
continued speedy recovery, but this act
and his act are two separate ones. And I
we appreciate uh two things that I know
this happened. Um it's my understanding
that the mayor and the city manager did
speak to
Mrs. Kirby. And if that's true, we
appreciate it. And we appreciate you,
Mr. Grisby in terms of having your
session yesterday, but we need to move
forward on these kinds of things. I
watched the videotape
and I
debated whether to say this, but
I came away and one word struck me and
that word was slaughtered.
And I looked up the definition of
slaughtered. And slaughter mean to kill
in a brutal, violent or indiscriminate
manner. It is most commonly referred to
butchering livestock for food or mass
killing of humans in war. And I walked
away feeling that this young man was
butchered and slaughtered. So we are
disappointed in what happened. Dr. King,
you talk about him. You know, I heard
him speak in person a couple times,
>> 30 seconds,
» 30 seconds,
>> but King said there can be no great
» but King said there can be no great
disappointment where there's no love.
And so, we come in love. We want to work
with you. We've talked to some of you
and we'll continue to do that. And we
love this community and we want to work
together with you to make this happen.
And King, I'll stop with this. He often
told us as young people in Alabama, he
said, "How long?"
Then he would always tell us, "Not
long." And then he would remind us, I I
know my time is up. I got 10 more
seconds. He would say, "How long? Not
long. Because no lie can live forever."
>> How long? Not long. Because true
» How long? Not long. Because true
structure earth will rise again. How
long? Not long.
Because the ark of the moral universe is
long,
but it bends toward justice.
>> Thank you. Thank you.
» Thank you. Thank you.
>> And I can predict tonight. I'm sitting
» And I can predict tonight. I'm sitting
is that eventually Miss Brown will be
let go since your time has expired
>> and we're just curious why it's taken so
» and we're just curious why it's taken so
long.
>> Is there anyone else who would like to
» Is there anyone else who would like to
speak to the council? [applause]
» Good evening. My name is Jacqueline
Humphrey and I'm a resident of Lancing.
And I didn't come tonight to speak, but
this situation reminded me so much of
Patrick Leola
who died at the hands of a police
officer in Grand Rapids. And I happen to
know the family personally because my
husband and I started an outreach
ministry with the resettle of refugees
back in n uh 2005.
And this young man was only stopped. He
was stopped because the of the license
plate on the car and Patrick ran. The
policeman tried to tase him, he grabbed
the taser. The policeman then ran after
him. And as he hel held him down the
ground and handcuffed him, he was on his
stomach. The police shot him in the
head.
And there was no justice for him because
there's an all-white jury who were hung
and the police officer did not spend a
day. He's not going to spend any time. I
hope there's justice. I hope there's
justice for Isaiah and the police
officer regardless of whatever whatever
you they come up with that he should
definitely spend the rest of his life in
prison. I'm sorry. That's just how I
feel. But it's so sad because we have a
son and for years we told him if a
police officer stops you get to a light
a very well-lit area a gas station and
call us. We want to be there because
there's people that don't believe
profiling is real. It's extremely real.
And our daughters when they graduated
from high school wanted nothing to do
with Michigan State. They did not want
to go to a white university and they
chose to go to H.B.CU where they care
about them and they graduated and said
that was the best experience they could
have had. But they did not want to come
here because I was an employee at the
time and they could have gotten their
tuition half but for they did not want
to come and we certainly didn't force
them. And so there is the issue here.
And you know I I as others have said the
faces and as you're looking
[sighs and gasps]
I hope you have the heart that your
hearts are not so hardened
[clears throat] that you can see that
there is a serious problem here. And I
just want to say as an associate pastor
if you don't do the right thing God will
fix this.
>> God is going to take care of all of
» God is going to take care of all of
this. And so if you can't come to a
decision, he's going to take care of our
president. He's going to take care of
this country. And he's going to take
care of each and every one of you. So I
just I just you all to please think
about what you're doing here, the people
who are affected, and the fact that
Isaiah, no person needs to have 17
bullets in their body. Only one could
kill a person. How many times?
And whatever was going on with the
police officer, it didn't take all that.
It didn't take 17 bullets.
So Patrick being shot in the head is no
different from him. And I know for a
fact that Patrick was scared. He ran
because he was scared. And all they
really had to do is put handcuffs
handcuffs on him and take him to jail.
But they didn't.
They shot him in the back of the head.
So that's what we call justice in the
United States. And it's a sad state that
we're in. It's really, really sad. And
it hurts my heart. And I thank Teresa
uh who's the attorney for the family
because I know she's going to work hard
with the family and will seek justice.
And I just hope that there is justice
for Isaiah, but more so there's justice
for the people of East Lancing.
[applause]
>> Thank you. Is there anyone else who
» Thank you. Is there anyone else who
would like to speak?
» Hi. Uh my name is Marissa Gaines. I
never been to a city council meeting
before. Um it's been very entertaining.
I also didn't plan to get up and speak
today. I
what everyone has said has been very
enlightening. Um I didn't watch the
video of Isaiah because I didn't think
I'd be able to handle it. I grew up with
him. We grew up in Baltimore City.
We grew up in Baltimore City.
The crime there is unbelievable.
And we both were at Michigan State. And
a lot of the times when a person from
Baltimore City gets out of Baltimore
City, we say that we made it because we
made it out of Baltimore City. Nothing
happened to us. We ran track. We were
close. We were family. We made it out of
Baltimore City.
The fact that he couldn't make it here
in East Lancing is that's not okay. It's
it's a really difficult thing. And and
when we found out that Isaiah passed
away in East Lancing, but he made it out
of Baltimore City,
it's not okay. I I don't have that much
to say other than that. We're We were
just two kids from Baltimore City in
college trying to get our education. We
thought that we made it. That was our I
made it moment. He was headed to Texas.
He was going to get a good job. He was
excited.
I I didn't watch the video. I know very
limited information. I just know that we
are two kids from Baltimore City who
made it and then he didn't. And and
we're just calling for justice. That's
that's all I have to say. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Is there anyone else who
» Thank you. Is there anyone else who
would like to speak?
» Please state your name for the record.
>> Uh my name is Antonio Gomez. To the
» Uh my name is Antonio Gomez. To the
crowd, I'm apologize. I'm pretty
emotional right now, so [snorts] not
really sure what I'm going to say, but
I watched a video like a lot of people
did.
Um,
it's clear there's a severe lack of
training within our police department
that they would put themselves
in danger
and use an excuse of deadly force
because they put themselves in danger.
And
it just makes me mad that you were given
the recommendation that this police
chief was not a good fit for this city.
Um, and
you are putting the city in danger. You
are putting us in danger by having a
police chief that obviously is not doing
her job correctly with unqualified
officers that put us all at risk
for any small thing that could happen.
And
I, you know, I'm not really sure you're
listening to us. Like I I've only just
started talking recently, but I know
others have been here time and time and
time again, and it just looks like
nothing's getting through to any of you.
I guess the these next remarks go to the
crowd. I mean, I just don't have faith
in any of these people. They have
if they want me to have faith in them,
it's too late. It's gone. It's been
taken away by their lack of action
across the board. Like, I do not have
faith that a former police officer will
hold his people accountable. I don't
have faith that a person I've seen lie
to people will start telling the truth.
I don't have faith that someone I'm
worried might be a racist will soon find
themselves to be a good person. I don't
have faith that like a c a coward will
find the courage. And I don't have
faith. The lady that seems to just look
the other way time and time again will,
you know, just decide that she's going
to actually pay attention when serious
accusations are brought forward against
the, you know, city manager. I don't
have faith anywhere. I don't have faith
in you at all. I don't know why you want
this job. You should just all resign.
You are putting our city in danger.
You are turning your power against the
people here.
Leave. Get out. I don't want you here.
And I'm pretty sure a lot of people
don't want you here.
Thank you. Is there anyone else who
would like to address the council?
» Hello. Um, my name is Carolina Wheeler.
I'm a rising senior at MSU. I moved here
from Kentucky um in 2023 and one of the
things I was most excited about about
going to school out of state, going up
north was thinking that things would be
different, largely more progressive,
um and while I certainly see less
Confederate flags flown around my
neighborhood,
um y'all, it's it's very real down
there. Um,
there are certain things that I'm
learning that are so pervasive and
insidious within American society and
American institutions that there is no
escaping them. Um, even what seems to be
a liberal college town.
So, I suppose I was naive, but I started
off naive. Um, I was raised in Kentucky
in the south by affluent white
Republicans. Um, and I remember being
taught about the police as a child, not
much older than or fairly probably
younger than the child who spoke here
earlier tonight. um and being taught
that the police were brave, valiant
public servants whose job was to protect
people and ensure order and keep society
safe.
Um obviously
throughout my adult life, I've learned
the true history of policing in America.
you know, starting with
the the incredibly violent history of
slave patrols,
um the enforcement of vagrancy laws
through the 70s. That's crazy.
Um the brutal crackdowns on the civil
rights movement, the war on drugs,
there's no denying that policing in
America is rotten to the core. And
that's something that no city can
escape, no town, regardless of purported
reform or changes in leadership
or, you know, really really much that
they try to do um to to make policing
better. Um
and so
I've presented two sort of definitions
of the American policing system here.
One is that they are they're brave and
they protect us. And one is that they
are deeply flawed and the original
intent is something much graver than is
presented to Americans. And in light of
this incident with Isaiah Kirby,
um there's really only two conclusions
you can make. Um one for each of those.
either a the specific officers involved
in Isaiah Kirby's death were in fact not
the valiant public servants I was taught
about in school but rather cowards in
body armor and tactical shields and
armed with tasers and pistols and foam
foam thingy
I forgot the term for it I saw them load
it in the video um it's interesting that
it was there was no attempt made to
deploy that but it wouldn't have changed
anything probably.
Anyways, B the second option is that the
Carlson institution of policing in
America is irrevocably intertwined with
racism towards black Americans without
exception. I kind of already said that.
Um
anyways, to wrap up, I wanted to make
the point that violent crime is not
something that ever happens within a
vacuum. Um it happens because societal
conditions are created by the
institutions and they are sustained by
these institutions. Violent crime is
contributed to by mental health crisis,
substance abuse, housing insecurity, and
even as we see now, episodes of
psychosis triggered and/or egged on by
the sickopantic tendencies of
unregulated large language models which
cities around the country are promoting
via allowing data centers. Um, all of
these are also interconnected with
broader societal issues. Um and as we
see the American government shift
towards
um more authoritar authoritarian rule
and defunding public service programs
like um you know healthcare etc and
housing um these are only going to get
worse and East Lancing has to figure out
a way to deal with these problems that
cause violent crime at the root and not
to try and cut the buds.
>> Thank you. Is there anyone else?
» Thank you. Is there anyone else?
[applause]
» Please state your name for the record.
>> Yes, I'm Dr. Sharon Hobbs. I'm a
» Yes, I'm Dr. Sharon Hobbs. I'm a
clinical psychologist. Uh, I've been
here 42 years. I was born and raised in
Harlem, New York. I am not a small town
girl.
I'm also on the East Lancing Independent
Police Oversight Committee
Commission rather and I have watched for
the last four years this council's
unwavering effort to take away any voice
that we as commissioners could expound
on in terms of the needs and concerns
that citizen Citizens in East Lancing
have we were supposed to be by ordinance
their voice, but the council has felt
that
it's best to keep us quiet.
Early on when we had concerns about how
police officers were handling all
citizens, not just black citizens, how
they did not know how to deal with
mental health crisis. Mental health
issues are not just with the black
community. There's mental health issues
in all aspects of our community and our
police have not been trained to handle
them.
Many years ago when my son was a
teenager and he was about six feet tall
and about 200 lb, he and his friend were
sitting across the street from my house
in Shaw States. He was smoking. Um he
had finished smoking by the time the
police drove through, but the police
officer felt that there was a need to
get out of his car and walk over to my
son and his friend who is also
African-American to ask why were they
there?
My son said, "I live across the street."
And he pointed to our house, which was a
very unusual looking house. And the
officer said, "That's Dr. Hobbs's
house." And he said, "I'm Dr. Hobbs's
son." The next day, that police officer
came to my office to apologize because
when he told his wife, his wife said
that was racist.
And so he came and apologized to me and
later apologized to my son.
I feel sorry for the police officers who
shot Isaiah
because I don't think you all give a
damn about those officers.
I think you care much more
about
East Lancing and the glory of East
Lancing.
When you shoot someone,
even if they're your enemy in war, it it
hits you in the heart.
And we put these police officers in
these positions without giving them the
training and the sensitivity training
that is required. You can't be a police
officer and not think quickly on your
feet. When your police chief says
minorities coming into the community of
the problem and you see this young man
with a knife, is that not a minority
who's come into this community, this
wonderful community to cause problems? I
mean, the police officers
have been set up and I think there's a
lot of work that can be do be done with
our police officers. I don't think
they're all a piece of crap. And no, I
don't want these men to go to prison for
the rest of their lives. I want them to
have plenty of time to think about what
their actions did, not only to Isaiah
and his family, but to all of us, black
and white.
The commission
said Jen Brown after having served as a
temporary person was not right for this
community. But I I interviewed I
interviewed the candidates and she was
not the strongest candidate. But our
city attorney I mean rather our city
manager seemed to have a special liking
for her. So that even the questions were
geared for her. How can somebody who's
coming from across the country know
about our annual reports? So, even the
interviews were geared for her. I don't
know why he is so enamored of her, but I
do know she is not good for East
Lancing. We've got to do better. Some of
you I've known for a long time, like
Mark, and I must say, Mark, I am very
disappointed. I thought you would be at
least a voice here and be heard. and
I've known your husband forever.
We've got to do better.
>> Thank you. Is there anyone else who
» Thank you. Is there anyone else who
would like to speak?
>> Please state your name for the record.
» Please state your name for the record.
>> Olivier Strad.
» Olivier Strad.
Uh first off, I just wanted to say what
I saw um from the body cam footage was a
young man who was shot several times
after he was already on the ground. Um,
and in international law, this is
considered, you know, a war crime. Um,
shooting somebody after they're already
down uh is considered double tapping.
Um,
also on the 13th, I one of you guys said
that um, you can't predict this kind of
tragedy and I've heard nothing but the
community telling you that this was
predicted.
Um uh
I mainly wanted to come up here to say
this. Um I apologize. Uh it's going to
be hard for me to get through this, but
um I I lived by where this incident used
to or where this incident happened. Um I
I lived with a young black man who
dreamed of being a baker. Um he would
make me the food that he hoped to put in
his restaurant someday. Um, oh, right
after the MSU shooting, uh, he seriously
wasn't doing well. Uh, and I reached out
to the city because he, like me, um,
didn't have a family that, uh,
I could go to. And I I've I've had
multiple white friends who I've been
able to get mental help for, um, when
they really needed it. Um, you know, and
I I wasn't able to take care of him
anymore because I had to go to a surgery
um, and was going to be away for a
while. uh the city sent the police. Um
it just made him a lot worse. Uh and uh
just with his mental headsp space, it
could have ended up like this incident.
Um which I think the police handled
awfully. Um,
when I returned from my surgery, um, I
walked into an active unmarked crime
scene where I found the, uh, you know,
remnants of my roommates's last days.
And so I guess um along with the fact
that the police should have handled this
situation completely differently from my
experience, I don't understand how we um
help people like retroactively.
Um
so that's all I wanted to say. [snorts]
>> Thank you. Is there anyone else
» Thank you. Is there anyone else
[applause]
who would like to address the council?
Seeing none, are there any callers?
>> There's one caller on the line. Caller
» There's one caller on the line. Caller
with your last name Austin, you are now
free to address the council.
Caller with your last name Austin, you
are now free to address the council.
» There are no callers remaining on the
line.
>> All right. Thank you. Uh that brings us
» All right. Thank you. Uh that brings us
to communications from council uh
council member Whan.
[snorts]
It's very difficult to know what to say
in a situation like this.
Obviously our community is hurting.
Um staff are hurting.
>> [clears throat]
» [clears throat]
>> I wanted to originally talk about the
» I wanted to originally talk about the
Artfest and how incredible it was where
people from all over the state came in
to enjoy our community.
Myself and um Mayor Tam Griggsby went to
a Michigan Municipal League training
this weekend on how we can be better at
doing our jobs and it was very
informative. I really appreciate uh my
colleague
just a reminder that we're not the
investigative
bureau of the situation.
We are not getting any formal comments
from the man who was stabbed many many
times.
We are not seeking other eyewitness
accounts. We're not talking to those
involved. We're not um
and video does show just a portion of
the situation.
We're leaving this to the Michigan State
Police because that's appropriate.
It's not appropriate for the East
Lancing Police Department to investigate
the situation. So, we need to have an
outside agency
investigate that. That investigation
takes time.
Okay.
There is lots of rules with council. We
can't get together and talk.
We there's an opens meetings act that is
critical that we don't do business
outside this room.
So, um I do ask for patience and due
process and patience in the situation.
I do think there's a lot of people that
have seen this and they've
um
it's traumatic and I think I want to
make sure that we can reach out to
mental health professionals
to um be able to
um deal with issues and
um it's just very very difficult
situations for everyone involved. It's
very traumatic and I appreciate several
of the comments that addressed that. Um,
I guess that's all I have to say.
>> Thank you, Council Member Meadows.
» Well, I'll try to be, you know, fairly
brief here.
Um I I just want to say that um even
though we may have poker faces while
we're listening to people, I think that
most of us want to make sure that people
know that we are listening to them and
by reacting sometimes it may uh indicate
that we're we're not
the uh you asked me specifically about
lunge. I don't actually remember ever
using the word lunge uh in relation to
this in particular. It may have been a
reporter's question and they used the
word or something like that. But as I
indicated last week, what I saw as of
last week was the abbreviated version of
this this particular incident. And in
that incident, there is a moment in time
just before this ends, before that ends
where uh Isaiah moves from the bike lane
into the regular, you know, part of the
street and seems to be heading towards
the police car. That's what I was
referring to. But I want to emphasize
the other things I said because they
were characterized as being u
insensitive
uh by uh the attorney for the family who
I've known for years and you know I want
to make sure that I am not insensitive
and want to emphasize that I meant what
I said when I began to talk last week.
Nobody
who has a child
wants to outlive that child.
And uh you know I think u the tragedy of
this is widespread.
Even putting aside the [snorts]
the number of bullets that might have
been used, um [clears throat]
the question I asked then is the
question I ask now. We need to know what
triggered all this. What was this mental
health crisis? And I want to I
represented the department of mental
health for about 10 years and as
assistant attorneys general had numerous
lawsuits that I handled. And I just want
to mention that
this sort of schizophrenic
burst
is often we see that is between the ages
of 18 and 24 and particularly among
individuals who are highly intelligent.
And by all accounts, by all reports,
Isaiah was a highly intelligent student
with a a life that he was planning to
have. So, how did this happened that
night?
I want to know the answer to that, and
I'll have a lot more to say about both
the video and all of the evidence that
we received because we don't have the
toxicology report or the autopsy report
at this point in time. But clearly,
if this was a sudden mental health
crisis,
this is even more of a tragedy than it
seems to me to be at this point in time.
I agree that everybody who does wrong
should be held accountable and I think
somebody mentioned that at the at the
microphone. That is the objective.
That's the objective of the
investigation
and the objective of this council.
The uh there's been a number of comments
with regard to due process of law and
due process is a is a big deal and um
more than a big deal a big right of
everyone who's involved in any incident
like that. And that applies both to
Isaiah and the due process of law that
he had a right to and the due process of
law that someone who might have violated
his right to due process of law has in
relation to that and we will go forward
with that.
Um, I think that there are a number of
issues that were raised in my mind with
regard to the video as I watched the
entire video that was released and you
know I will have further comments with
regard to those at what I consider to be
the correct time. I will note that while
I appreciate all of the comments that
were made tonight,
Dr. Hob's comment is the one that stung
with me. I don't want you ever
disappointed in me. And uh like I say,
I'll have a lot more to say about this.
>> Thank you, Mayor Prom.
» Thank you, Mayor Prom.
Uh yes. Um so, uh I just want to thank
everyone that came in and spoke tonight.
Um and um I love the fact that you guys
are organizing together um as a
community and really showing out for
what's important. Um I also want to just
say to the group uh Citizen for Justice,
uh I'm glad that you guys have um um
organization and you have a list of
things here that I see uh as what you
call demands. And that's exactly where
we are at. Um I mean you guys heard me
talk talk and talk about you know things
uh here in this format. Um and I'm ready
to work and ready to look at how we can
go forward. So, I'm urging the city
manager to make sure that um he
uh scratches out time um for the
individuals that are involved with this
um um by the deadline that they set. I
think it's important for us to rearrange
whatever schedules we have to start
looking at this um as we go forward. Um
I have a lot of questions. I have a lot
of things that I don't I don't
understand. Um I plan on asking some of
those questions tonight. Um and again
within that framework um and I know this
is not you know but there is a due
process for everyone involved just like
council member Meadows says and that is
really the structure the framework that
this whole democracy is built on for us
to go through this process. I know you
want immediate action. I know you are
tired of asking for the things you've
been asking for um and demanding for um
in regards to everything that's been
said. And as I've said before, I said I
wasn't going to be talking, but as I
said before, when we have everything in
front of us, we have the process that
has been um set out by law and we are in
a situation where we can act upon those
in this particular setting, in this
particular role and the particular
responsibility that we have to the city
and the community here in the city. Um I
will uh just do that. So, um I think
it's um um um
absolutely imperative that we um
continue hearing from you, continue
hearing your stories, your experiences.
Um and some of you have I worked with uh
in the past when it comes to some of
these issues and these issues were here
before we got here. These issues are
happening now. These issues going to be
having here uh after we're gone. So, we
have to do what we can, why we can, and
uh as I said before, um it is so much
more easier to do it with you than
without you. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Council Member Singh.
I uh like many of you shared from the
podium this evening am sad, angry, and
sick.
The video that was released that many of
us watched uh was incredibly disturbing.
» [clears throat]
» From that review, uh, I have submitted a
set of questions to the city manager and
city attorney and I hope to gain some
answers stemming from the release video.
I want to recognize that
um the community we are in collective
pain
and
um
this is going to be a long road ahead. I
don't pretend that this is um something
that
is an easy set of solutions that we are
faced with.
Um that this has got to be a collective
long-term path that we commit ourselves
to.
And I want to recognize beyond
the awful events that happened April
15th
that there is a larger conversation
which I appreciate the the list that was
shared uh that recognizes some
recommendations. Um
I want to get lend some appreciation to
the community members I've been able to
have um a dialogue with over the last
several days. I look forward and welcome
that continued dialogue.
I do also want to share that the
conversations I've been able to have
both with city attorneys and and with
city managers,
there are personnel questions that I've
asked.
Um,
that's as far as I'm going to go this
evening
there's a lot of work to do and again I
um,
you know, thank you for coming here and
I do recognize that uh, especially for
those with generational trauma that this
is something that is um,
continues to be difficult to come here
on a weekly basis.
Um I also I do want to do
[sighs and gasps]
um a slight mention on the extreme
weather events that we had last night or
yesterday. Um the Ingam County Emergency
Response Sirens, I know I spent time in
my basement yesterday. I know our
schools
um you know students are in the hallways
for extended amount of time um uh
sheltering and just want to give a shout
out uh to our DPW folks and others that
have been part of the community response
as it relates to um you know the down
trees and other property damage. So, um
while this while we have um
the really important matters, uh the
city business um of tending to the
community on all facets continues. So, I
want to recognize the city employees
that are are weighing through that. So,
with that, that's all I have this
evening.
>> Thank you. That brings us to uh
» Thank you. That brings us to uh
communication from the city manager, Mr.
Bellman.
>> I have none this evening.
» I have none this evening.
>> Okay. Um that brings us to item 3.1.
» Okay. Um that brings us to item 3.1.
Is there a motion concerning item 3.1?
I'll move that
>> Mike.
» Mike.
>> I'll move that we go into a close
» I'll move that we go into a close
session to discuss and consult with the
city's attorneys regarding privilege and
confidential attorney client legal
correspondence that is exempt from
disclosure by state law under MCL 15.243
243 PN1 PN lowerase G as allowed under
SE subsection 8 PN1 lowercase H of the
Michigan Open Meetings Act.
>> Uh motion by Meadows, second by Whan. Uh
» Uh motion by Meadows, second by Whan. Uh
roll call vote, please.
>> Council member Whan,
» Council member Whan,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Council member Meadows. Council member
» Council member Meadows. Council member
Singh,
>> yes. Mayor Prom Griggsby,
» yes. Mayor Prom Griggsby,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Mayor Alman,
» Mayor Alman,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> We are adjourned to close session.
Okay, we are back in open session. Um,
[clears throat]
next item on our agenda is discussion of
police and fire updates.
Uh, we'll start with uh, interim Chief
Newman from the fire department.
>> Mayor, Council, thanks again for having
» Mayor, Council, thanks again for having
me. John Newman, interim chief fire
department.
I know that last month I had made
mention that we had a uh young
firefighter paramedic who was separating
after just a matter of a few years to go
raise a family. Well, Genevieve was born
uh on Mother's Day. So, I wanted to make
sure to at least close that
conversation. Things are successfully
moving forward for uh Julia and Chris
and Genevieve. And I just wanted to
close that piece out right at the
beginning of the presentation.
uh [clears throat] following the uh
Wells Hall event that we had responded
to uh with MSU Police Department, uh we
wound up actually having three different
hazmat events on campus within the last
one month period. Uh there was the Wells
Hall event and then there was this uh
event here at the MSU regional chilled
water plant. This was actually uh the
deputy chief on duty that day activated
this as a metro hazmat response due to
the fact of the chemical mixtures within
the building. The MSU employees had
reported that there was a liquid
chlorine spill along with a hydrofuloric
acid spill and that creates a toxic
corrosive poisonous gas uh chlorine gas.
They had evacuated with uh minor
irritation from the gas and then we had
the response from the metro team to
actually enter and make sure that we had
the the spill evaluated so they knew the
content the quantity of the content as
well as making sure that if it needed to
be damned or uh mitigated in any way
they could get that accomplished before
uh any type of contract uh cleanup
occurred and also limit any type of
exposure to anybody else. But it was
just a uh I had stated at media meetings
prior that sometimes there is no reason
for the change in calls or the volumes
of calls and it just played out that way
that there were three hazmat calls that
we responded to within a 30-day period
on campus.
Uh the last one I'm referencing as as
the three the last one was today. Uh
there was a uh complication today with
the nitrogen
gas that's utilized at the chemistry
building to control environments for
their
experiments and studies that they do,
the graduate students do within
chemistry building. They utilize uh
reactive metals in their studies and the
one thing about those reactive metals is
they can't be exposed to oxygen and so
put them in a testing uh cage uh
container and then they completely
envelop it with nitrogen to make it an
oxygen deprived atmosphere. Well, there
was a complication with that today. they
were actually running out of nitrogen uh
with multiple tests going on. So, we
actually were on site for that in order
to make sure that we didn't have any
reactive medical metals uh beginning to
combust until they had everything
mitigated and had the uh nitrogen back
in place. So, that one actually turned
out to be not so much a concern of the
gas as the reactive metals that were in
the building.
>> [cough]
» [cough]
>> The next photo on the next slide just
» The next photo on the next slide just
shows two of the two of the staff. Uh
they're in their one-sizefits-all suits.
I thought that the uh picture actually
did justice. The individual on the left
has a smaller stature than the one on
the right. uh but yet in the same size
suit and then they are going to be
entering that space through that uh door
there in order to monitor the airspace
within that room.
Outside of the report that I had
presented separately to you, the written
report that I left for you to just have
the information without reading all that
information to you. Uh this page here, I
added data as you had requested in
comparison with previous years.
Now I
built this basically on a guess. Not
certain exactly the information that you
were looking for. But what I want to
know from you, I need feedback uh from
you. Is this the data that you are
looking to obtain and review? Is there
additional data that you want? Is there
a different format that you want to
receive it? We can we can adjust what we
what we need to do with this.
Uh you can see within the within the
report that's in here, I did include in
there uh mutual aid that was provided
outside of the city as well as mutual
aid received within the city. And you'll
see that those numbers are quite a bit
different uh over the last three years.
» Could you could you point to those in
the bullets the
>> in the bullet points?
» in the bullet points?
>> Yeah. So [clears throat] the
» Yeah. So [clears throat] the
>> so if you're down the the uh top half of
» so if you're down the the uh top half of
each one is specific to EMS calls and if
you go to the four bullet points inset
bullet points and you go towards the
bottom for 2026 there were 17 EMS calls
that we responded to outside of the city
of East Lancing.
>> Got it.
» Got it.
>> And there were two that we received
» And there were two that we received
mutual aid within the city for that we
could not cover.
>> So there's a big imbalance there. But
» So there's a big imbalance there. But
there's a that was just for 2026. If you
go to 2024,
>> we had 18 that we responded to and 13
» we had 18 that we responded to and 13
that we received assistance for. Much
closer much closer uh paradigm in there.
Now 25 is even uh more of a mark
difference than 26.
So, if there's a long-term imbalance
there,
>> well, we'll know that as we continue to
» well, we'll know that as we continue to
move forward collecting that data for
you.
>> Yep.
» Yep.
>> So, I think I was the one who had asked
» So, I think I was the one who had asked
for this year-over-year data.
>> I would
» I would
I would wager that we're going to see a
shift on that the opposite direction
come August, September, and October.
>> Got it. Yep. Okay.
» Got it. Yep. Okay.
>> Just with call volume. So these are
» Just with call volume. So these are
monthly stats.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Yes. These are specific to April of each
» Yes. These are specific to April of each
each year.
>> So it'll be useful to track that over
» So it'll be useful to track that over
the months because it could reverse
>> and you'll be able to see that see that
» and you'll be able to see that see that
as we move forward. And we can do that.
We we can show comparison with uh six
month difference as we move forward and
still equate that with varying years.
>> Yep. I think this is great. This is kind
» Yep. I think this is great. This is kind
of what I was envisioning when I asked.
Kind of
>> what you were looking for. All right.
» what you were looking for. All right.
Thanks. Uh it's been interesting looking
at the data. One of the items that I had
discussed with Mr. Bellman today during
our face toface was uh we had a response
uh that we provided outside of the city
with uh automatic aid to BA Township for
the fire at village uh village at
Chandler Crossing.
And one of the things that was
identified
with that event alone was
the frequency that we are working with
those fire events with Meridian
Township, Bath Township and making sure
that we have policies, tasks,
uh,
directives that are given over radio
communication that everything is equal
and mirrors each other. So any changes
or differences that there might be with
a different department, we need to make
sure that our training reflects that
information and we bring things in in
line so that everybody is working off
the same page.
Now that that's been identified, we will
be working towards holding joint
training sessions together with the
departments, not just within our own
department, but with outside departments
and bring that together and try to marry
those those tasks and those services
together.
But outside of that,
uh that's a brief bullet point of what
we've been doing at the fire department
for the last month. Uh we do have
testing for one new higher position
uh next
week. Yes, next week. So we will be
doing the written and the physical
agility and then we will be holding uh
the oral interviews after that to fill
that one position. So we are actively
working forward to get that position
filled.
>> Questions for Mr. Newman, Mr. Willen.
» Questions for Mr. Newman, Mr. Willen.
>> Um maybe it's a more of a comment. I
» Um maybe it's a more of a comment. I
actually had um someone talked to me
about the fire up in Bath and it was
very imp they they were very impressed
with the multi-
unit where different counties, different
cities, the fact that everyone worked
really well together that helps us if we
have an issue also. Mhm.
>> So I think the coordination with within
» So I think the coordination with within
the departments is impressive and I'm
glad for that. Thank you.
>> I do have a comment if I can. I just
» I do have a comment if I can. I just
want to I really want to compliment uh
you on on bringing these departments
together in a training for training. I
mean, that was one of the issues I want
to say. I don't remember how many years
ago it was when we talked about
combining Meridian Township and East
Lancing's uh fire departments. Uh there
was a huge disparity in training at that
point in time. And obviously, our fire
department responds [clears throat] to
things like a hazmat uh issue that other
departments locally probably don't have
to train for. So, uh, having that joint
training, I think, is extremely
important and also means that we'll
have, uh, equally trained individuals
responding because we're going to be
back up or
>> right,
» right,
>> first in on, you know, any number of
» first in on, you know, any number of
things over the years. So, my
compliments to you and getting that
done. That was great,
>> Mr. Griggsby.
» Mr. Griggsby.
>> Yeah, he just stole all my thunder. Uh,
» Yeah, he just stole all my thunder. Uh,
literally words out of my mouth. Um, I
thank you for for doing this. I I just
want to be appreciative of the work that
it takes for you to kind of get prepared
for this, present to us, get this
information, get do the work that's not,
you know, that's not necessarily in
front of people. And I just want to ask
you in these presentations, do you feel
like the work you put into it, the
energy and the time that uh the benefit
of doing this going forward is something
that's advantageous of your time and um
in and in in the frequency that we were
doing it in. Does that make sense?
» I do. I mean, it's a it it does take
some time, but the part of that is it
has been done in the past. So building
the foundation to move forward to be
able to continue to glean the
information over and over and over. Once
the system's built, it should flow and
we'll be able to gather that information
as we need it, not just on a on a report
basis to you once a once a month.
>> Yeah, that's that's my concern. I just
» Yeah, that's that's my concern. I just
want to really make sure I know I
benefit tremendously with just learning
so much of some of the inner workings
and some of the data that's been
presented. But I just want to make sure
on your side that you also feel that
this is a good investment for something
that you're creating in the system.
>> I'm finding information that I'm
» I'm finding information that I'm
utilizing on my in my own collection of
data. So there's there's pieces that I'm
looking at myself that I'm starting to
collect that not necessarily are going
to mean anything currently, but they may
over time. But being able to see that
and and identify that, well, that's
something I didn't know.
>> Yeah. Maybe it'll give us some benefit
» Yeah. Maybe it'll give us some benefit
down the road.
>> Absolutely. Thank you,
» Absolutely. Thank you,
>> Council Member Singh.
» Council Member Singh.
>> Yeah. So, it's also, I think, helpful
» Yeah. So, it's also, I think, helpful
for the public to see trends. Um, it's
helpful for all of us to see trends over
time. And I'm looking at uh pretty steep
uptick in overall EMS calls in April 26
relative to April 25 and potentially al
also April 24. It'll be interesting to
see if that holds up over over the
months,
>> right? and see what see what changes as
» right? and see what see what changes as
we move forward.
>> Yeah. And I think that's real important
» Yeah. And I think that's real important
for the community to be able to see also
that the the burden on the fire
department keeps growing. So,
>> agreed. Agreed.
» agreed. Agreed.
>> So, thank you for your presentation.
» So, thank you for your presentation.
>> Thank you for your time.
» Thank you for your time.
>> All right. Thanks, Chief. Good night.
Okay.
Chief Brown and Assistant Chief Craft
and Captain O'Hario, welcome.
Good evening, Mayor Alman, Mayor Potm
Gri Griggsby, and council members. Thank
you for the opportunity to provide an
update on several important initiatives
within the East Lancing Police
Department. Tonight, I will briefly
discuss hiring and promotions, training
initiatives, technology and transparency
efforts, department activity, and
community engagement. I am pleased to
announce the hiring of our newest police
officers, Officer Washington and Officer
Mosby, as well as the promotion of
Sergeant Woodruff. We also had one
individual start last week, Officer
Kendall Souls. I will be introducing
these new officers to you at the June
discussion only meeting. I was planning
to introduce them tonight, but Officer
Mosby had a military um obligation.
Currently, the department has 55
um budgeted officers and we're currently
staffed at 47. We have one officer in
the Washington Police Academy and five
other conditional offers extended to
potential candidates.
Training continues to be a major
priority from our department. Last week,
our personnel participated in a two-day
training led by Joe Samaro. He is a
nationally recognized speaker. We
actually had two two-day sessions of
training that focused on deescalation,
trauma recognition, and mental
resilience.
As you're already aware, our command
staff completed training with Dr. Ike
McKinnon focused on ethical policing,
building trust, and professionalism in
leadership. And that same training is
now scheduled for all nonsupervisory
police personnel in July of 2026.
Lastly, all of our personnel completed
implicit bias training with Darnell
Blackbird and we're already looking into
2027 and looking to bring nationally
recognized speakers like we'd done in
2026.
The department continues to invest in
technology that improves efficiency,
accountability, transparency, and
officer safety. We're currently working
with Axon on the development and
implementation of Axon standards. As
you've heard before, this platform will
help us streamline use of force
reporting and complaint tracking. We
still have a go live date for summer of
2026. Our team continues to meet with
Axon representatives on a weekly basis
to make sure that the system is
customized for our department needs and
best practices.
The next slide will provide a snapshot
of department activity comparing March
of 2026 to April of 2026 as well as a
yearover-year comparison from April of
25 to April of 26. So compared to March
of 26, in April we had an increased
by 32 and OWI arrest increased from 5 to
9. And then comparing those same numbers
to April of 2025,
we had calls increase by 132, traffic
stops by 74, and a slight decrease in
OWI arrests. In April, we had six
warnings for loud exhaust on vehicles,
and one citation was issued for loud
exhaust.
Community engagement continues to be one
of our priorities and over the past
several months, our officers and staff
have have participated in numerous
community events and outreach
initiatives. Some of those recent
examples include our participation in
the Kuanas egg hunt at Patre Park and
our attendance at the Tech Ford men of
color recruiting event which occurred um
or highlighted careers in trades,
technology, and public service.
We also had a successful completion of
our 2026 Citizen Police Academy where we
had 19 individuals um graduate.
Even during periods of staffing shortage
shortages and increased demands for
service, our team continues to
prioritize public safety and community
partnership. Our community expects when
they call 911 that they'll receive
quality service in a timely manner. One
example of this is um over the last
month we've had two separate swatting
calls at the East Lancing High School.
These incidents um very quickly absorb
all of our resources and often require
assistance from other agencies. And so
even with staffing shortages um we
responded to those calls and um had a
successful end to those. So again, thank
you for the opportunity to provide this
update and I'd be happy to answer any
questions that you may have. questions
for the chief.
>> Mr. Griggsby.
» Mr. Griggsby.
>> Yes, thank you. Uh thank you for the
» Yes, thank you. Uh thank you for the
report and thank you for all coming in
tonight. Um um as you know uh we have uh
a big community um incident in our uh
that we are dealing with that you're
dealing with we're all dealing with and
I had a few questions um and um you know
these are questions that I think
hopefully can start giving um at least
me um some understanding about what I
don't know and how it works from your
perspective.
um in a baseline way. And I apologize if
my question
questions are um I don't know not the
best questions. So work with me here uh
in regards to that. But
um my first question is
can you walk me through
like the deadly force policy like in
plain language as best you can you know
specifically to what must officers
reasonably believe
before deadly force is authorized.
>> Um I just don't know how that works.
» Um I just don't know how that works.
>> Sure. Again, we can't get into specific
» Sure. Again, we can't get into specific
details of the case, but broadly, um,
first of all, I want to draw attention
that all of our policies and procedures
are accessible to the public. They are
on our website. They're part of our
transparency page. Um, we have quite a
few policies and they're all accessible.
Um, in terms of our deadly force policy,
I first want to reiterate that all of
our response to resistance is governed
by case law, and that's Graham versus
Connor. Um so East Lancing Police
Department's uh officers are trained to
um assess three key items
um before making a decision to use
deadly force. And those three prongs are
the severity of the crime, whether
there's an immediate threat to the
public or to officers, and whether
there's ex um active resistance or
flight. And so that is what guides that
deadly force language.
>> Okay. Um
» Okay. Um
um I have some more questions. I don't
know if you guys have follow-ups. Can I
go ahead and keep Okay. Um so
can you help me understand? I'm trying
to distinguish between a person that is
armed and a person that presents
immediate threat. I don't know if
there's a proximity thing. I don't know
if there's, you know, a level of the
scenario or the or weapon or how can you
can you help me understand
um
at least how officers are trained or
what the policy may be in regards to
and I know some of this is very
situational and there's a little bit of
discretion involved with some of it I
would assume I guess with how that
works.
>> I can answer part of that question. Um
» I can answer part of that question. Um
the our our officers are trained to
assess each situation uh as it evolves.
Um and they take in that Graham v.
Connor uh case law into consideration
which they have had training on. Um our
officers all exceed the MCO's minimum
standard of training uh which is also
publicly available on the MCO's website
as well. Um but again just to reiterate
that uh to your question as you pose it,
they do take in the severity of the
crimes that they are investigating or
responding to. um the knowledge that
they actually have when they interact
with anybody. Uh it's not hindsight
2020. They are not judged on that. They
have to only what they know at the
actual time. Uh the immediiacy of the
threat uh not only to officers but to
the public and other people out in the
public and then just the um again act of
resistance or flight um of any person
that they deal with. So that's really
how they address that situation and as
you said it is very situational. they
have to take in the totality of the
circumstances um with the information
that they know and at times in law
enforcement you have to make
split-second decisions with very limited
information um and so that's how the
court views it again weighing very
heavily on the factors outlined within
that Supreme Court case of Grahamby
Connor
>> uh thank you and I know we have
» uh thank you and I know we have
independent investigation that's going
to look at all this and and and whatnot
but one of the most confusing things
from the video is the the
and I'll just say plain like there's
there's officers who are looking to do
non-lethal and then there's the lethal
aspect of that. And I I'm not quite
sure, you know, how that works in a live
situation as a person that sees this
video and sees two different types of
levels of response. And I I'm just
curious if if with respect to the
investigation if that could be addressed
or not.
Unfortunately, it can't be addressed. We
haven't interviewed officers and so we
don't know um the reasons for what they
did at the time of the incident. So
again, we can't speak to the specific
case. Um those are questions that would
have to be answered by the Michigan
State Police.
» Okay.
Um
and this may be similar. So, can you do
you have a general timeline of when EMS
was requested to the scene? Um, and the
timeline when the medical aid was
actually rendered because I from the
video it looked like there there was a a
a timeline thing there, but then in the
other footage it just seems like it
didn't match up. So, I'm just curious if
you have that information just yet with
kind of understanding when we had were
able to render aid to the individual
involved.
>> So, again, just speaking broadly, not to
» So, again, just speaking broadly, not to
the specific case, the East Lancing
Police Department for um policy on
rendering aid says that we need to make
sure that the scene is stable before
medics can render aid to any individual.
And so um again, broadly speaking, that
is what our policy says.
» Okay,
that's that's all I have for now.
>> Further questions? Council member Singh.
Um, [clears throat]
I just want to build some understanding
on the during the the released footage
last week that a lot of the public has
taken in. Um, I think you have language
that talks about the um internal
investigation or internal review. Um,
what and I I know I privately asked this
question as well. want to reflect that,
but I think it's important to understand
what at what point with the independent
investigation of the Michigan State
Police,
um the timeline of that internal review.
>> Yeah, that's a good question. Um
» Yeah, that's a good question. Um
standard protocol for East Lancing
Police Department is that an internal
investigation into any critical incident
will occur sometime after the Michigan
State Police completes their
investigation.
And then is there when you are
conducting an internal review of
something, what how long does that
typically take the ELPD?
>> So I think our last critical incident
» So I think our last critical incident
that was reviewed um comparable in size
would be the Meyer shooting and I wasn't
around during that time. So I'm looking
to Adrian if he remembers. I
>> it took at a minimum of several months.
» it took at a minimum of several months.
So we only had one investigator looking
into that at that in that critical
incident and that didn't uh that
incident was not as complex as this one
is.
>> And then you internal investigator. Can
» And then you internal investigator. Can
you explain to me how that works within
the police department
>> in regards to just
» in regards to just
>> do you have a separate position that's
» do you have a separate position that's
an internal investigator or is it
someone amongst administrative
officers? I don't
>> no. So yes, in this instance, it would
» no. So yes, in this instance, it would
probably be an administration uh team
member that is doing that level of
internal investigation. Correct. For a
smaller uh internal investigation,
sometimes they're handled at the shift
level. So a sergeant may do a very minor
internal investigation. Um if it rises
above that, a lieutenant might do it
like a shift lieutenant. U but in this
instance, due to the magnitude of the uh
incident, um probably going to be one of
the administrators.
And then you mentioned in the response
to um our mayor prom's question
um in terms of our hieres um they all
exceed MOOL's
um what does that mean is that passing
the exam exceed standards what does that
mean
>> yeah so MLOS has a minimum standard um
» yeah so MLOS has a minimum standard um
and all of our ELPD officers are trained
at the MCO's minimum standard for
lensure and firearms and officers
response to resistance is guided at case
law. So, MOS has minimum standards that
are on their website um particularly for
the licensing uh the amount of academy
that they have to go through um and so
on and so forth. Um there are new
standards for continuing uh education
that MCOLO's just put in place back in
2024 as a pilot program. Um and again,
all of that is publicly available and we
could share it with you if you want. We
can get copies for you if that's what
you would like. Um but that information
is there. um the East Lancing Police
Department, the MCO standards is a
minimum. Uh all of our officers exceed
that minimum.
>> And then the the new curriculum that you
» And then the the new curriculum that you
are referencing by Moos, um what
percentage of our current 47 officers
have been a part of that recent update
in curriculum or standards?
>> All of them have to be per Mult. So they
» All of them have to be per Mult. So they
all they've all been hired since 2024 or
they
>> they all have to go through the
» they all have to go through the
standards. These standards are set for a
year. So there's like a bank for 2024.
They have to meet all the standards and
then there's a bank of education that
they have to meet in 2025 and so on and
so forth.
>> Okay. So
» Okay. So
>> in regards to 2026, you have the whole
» in regards to 2026, you have the whole
year to work on it.
>> So officers are going through that right
» So officers are going through that right
now.
>> Okay. And then what beyond MCOs's what
» Okay. And then what beyond MCOs's what
additional training which I I recognize
as you've referenced it's on your
website um additional policy or training
policies that officers go through
>> like deescalation we purposed a bunch of
» like deescalation we purposed a bunch of
dollars for other trainings in the last
eight months or six seven months.
>> Are you asking beyond the ones that I
» Are you asking beyond the ones that I
mentioned in the presentation?
>> Yes. So again to your um question
» Yes. So again to your um question
regarding policies, first of all, we
have a software system where all of our
policies are at and all of the officers
are required to sign off on those
electronically that they understand
them. So that's part of training and
then we do an annual training each year
in either January, February or March. Um
each of the officers or sworn personnel
have to go through three full days of
training. That includes everything from
first aid, CPR. Um we also do taser
training. Um we do deescalation
um health and wellness resilience. The
topics for those change um from year to
year, but again we do a wide variety of
training during that annual training.
And then officers additionally go to
training for which they um it might
apply to a specific position that
they're in. So for example, our K9
officers attend K9 training both on a
monthly basis and then again annually.
Um we have bicycle officers and they go
to specific training. So again, all of
our officers get very specific training
each year and then if they're
specialized, they get training beyond
that. And the crisis intervention uh
training is that required by MCOs or is
that an East Lancing PD requirement?
>> So critical incident training from my
» So critical incident training from my
understanding is not required by MCOs
but that is a priority for our
department and the last time I checked
um which was a couple weeks ago we have
37 of our officers that are trained in
CIT. So 37 of the 47 that are
um and do you are do you have an
awareness of police departments in Mid
Michigan that require that? Do we
require it or it's a priority for the
department?
>> It is a priority. We don't have a
» It is a priority. We don't have a
requirement.
>> It's not required. Okay.
» It's not required. Okay.
>> We're just locally trying to get
» We're just locally trying to get
officers through. From my understanding,
they only offer that twice per year. And
so again, because of our staffing
levels, we're only able to send a couple
officers to that training at a time. And
where who hosts the training?
>> Ingham County.
» Ingham County.
>> Ingham County. And I know a number of
» Ingham County. And I know a number of
our officers come out of Lancing
Community College is my understanding.
And have we had meetings with the
faculty that conduct some of the
trainings to um you know talk
specifically about what we're seeing in
terms of community needs and what is
instructed in the classroom.
>> Yeah. And I'm going to let Adrian speak
» Yeah. And I'm going to let Adrian speak
to this because he's very actively
involved in Lancing Community College
Police Academy.
>> I actually teach there. So yes, at the
» I actually teach there. So yes, at the
end of every um uh academy there is a
debrief where chiefs um and high level
executives do are able to come in and
kind of critique and provide suggestions
to the academy. Um the academy standard
I believe I think I wrote it down on the
notes for Moos is 590 hours. Uh the LCC
as an example does well over 700 hours
of actual educational purposes uh for
any recruit coming out of LCC. I can't
speak to any other of themies, but all
of themies are governed by uh the
Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement
Standards MOOLS. Um and so they are all
overseen by MOOLS. Um and the curriculum
is actually designed by MOS as well. Um
they do off curriculum review as well
but I don't know the specifics on that
because I haven't interacted with MCOs's
that directly uh very often. So if that
answers your question.
>> Yeah. I mean part of it is I used to do
» Yeah. I mean part of it is I used to do
workforce development um uh
and other professional areas and you
know a lot of times we would work
specifically
um with
higher ed entities providing the
training or the degree programs to
specifically outline needs that we have
in our or an employer would need to help
matchmake and develop that curriculum. I
understand this is a bit different um in
terms of the standards that are outlined
by the state very different than an
engineering degree. So I'm just you know
balancing what I know professionally to
you know what
>> it's a good question and there's a lot
» it's a good question and there's a lot
of information on the MCO's web page. If
you had any questions or needed some
assistance navigating it I'd be more
than happy to do that. part of that
curriculum or the curriculum that MCOLO
sets forward um formies to be taught is
on that web page.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Thank you for referencing that. I know
» Thank you for referencing that. I know
verbally I learn verbally so I
appreciate this description as I'm sure
the public does as well.
>> Um
» Um
let's see. I want to go back to um
um for in this, you know, what we've
just experienced um as well as
uh I know you mentioned the Meyer event
a few years ago. T can you describe to
me a little bit in terms of how videos
are compiled? um whether that's from
fleet or body cam footage or even
available footage at storefronts.
» Okay.
>> The video compiles like in regards to
» The video compiles like in regards to
axon body warn camera videos
>> after an incident that we you know you
» after an incident that we you know you
know how does that come together for
East Lancing Police Department? How do
you compile a video after a significant
event?
>> Yeah, I can walk you through that. So we
» Yeah, I can walk you through that. So we
spent hours and hours watching camera
footage from both the bodywn cameras and
from the fleet footage and again wanted
to provide the public with you know as
much detail as we could in a short
amount of time. So from our experience
um again partnering with the Lancing
Police Department to create this video
we learned that most agencies narrow the
video down to about between 10 and 15
minutes. As you know, our final product
was just over 22 minutes. And so, again,
we had to create, you know, a timeline
using that footage that we have
available to us. And some of that
footage was hours and hours in length.
Um, so again, we tried to provide as,
you know, much information we could in
that short amount of time that we were
able to create for that narrated video.
And in terms of um you know what would
and you know heaven forbid we don't go
back you know through anything like
we've experienced this this spring but
um you know in terms of what would cut
down the time uh to develop a video um
whether that's reflective back on the
Meyer case or uh currently what we've
experienced
I I think one of the biggest hurdles we
ran into was just um lack of uh
technology software be able to put
something like that together and just
knowledge and so that's why we kind of
leaned on regional partners that had
folks that had some experience and the
the ability and the software to do that.
So, um, you know, hopefully we never
have to come into this type of situation
again, but we do have folks now that
we're working alongside our regional
partners to be able to gain that
knowledge and, you know, have that
software available now so that we could
do a little bit more of it ourselves and
be a little bit faster, I think.
>> And is does Axon also do this service?
» And is does Axon also do this service?
>> Not to my knowledge, no. And but there
» Not to my knowledge, no. And but there
there are vendors that work with local
police departments.
>> I'm not aware of any vendors. Yeah.
» I'm not aware of any vendors. Yeah.
>> Okay.
» Mr. Will,
did you you were making a motion toward
your microphone?
>> Yes. Um and we haven't talked about
» Yes. Um and we haven't talked about
this.
Can you help me with the perception
of a police officer where they would use
either less lethal or lethal force? What
would be part of their decision
based on their perspective
when is appropriate to use less lethal
as compared to lethal?
So again, they would have to refer back
to their training which um again is
guided by case law which um we spoke to
in terms of Graham versus Connor. Um
that is exactly what they would have to
rely to make that decision and again
it's a three-pronged approach. So that
is the severity of the crime, whether
there's an immediate threat to the
officer or to the public and whether
there's an active resistance or or a
fight.
>> Okay. Um, and maybe I need a little
» Okay. Um, and maybe I need a little
attitude because I'm gonna ask a
personal question. We um,
can I ask Chief why you became a police
officer?
You can take a second to think. This is
an interview. I'm just asking.
>> Well, I think the answer that I hear
» Well, I think the answer that I hear
most from others when we do interviews
is that they want to help others. Um,
as you all are aware, I spent 10 years
or excuse me, 15 years in law
enforcement and I left and went into the
private sector and I watched my daughter
who graduated from the police academy
and went into um, Lancing Police
Department and watched her passion and
love for helping people in the community
and trying to make her department
better. And I truly missed that. And
that's what brought me back into law
enforcement is I felt like my job as an
officer wasn't done and that I could
really help um this police department in
particular and this community
um that I knew was struggling. I knew
coming into this this position that this
department and this community needed
change. And I'm honestly trying my best
to do that every single day that I come
to work.
>> Thank you. Um, and I'm sorry, associate
» Thank you. Um, and I'm sorry, associate
chief or deputy chief or what's your
title?
>> Assistant chief.
» Assistant chief.
>> Assistant chief. Do you mind if I ask
» Assistant chief. Do you mind if I ask
you, um, what do you look for in new
officers when you ask them? I'm not sure
if that's still a question you ask why
they want to be a police officer. What
are things you look for? and there's
lots of people that want to do this job,
less than before,
>> but now that there's less people
» but now that there's less people
applying, you maybe you have to be more
discerning. What do you look for in
police officers?
>> I think simply just a a passion for
» I think simply just a a passion for
public service. Uh folks that want to
give of themselves to make the community
better and to, you know, help people on
their worst day. Um in 27 years, I've
had I've never had anybody call me up
and say, you know, hey, I'm having the
best day ever. uh that's not typically
the calls that we get. So folks that are
are willing to to shoulder that and uh
and and provide quality service in the
moment and have that passion for helping
others.
>> Okay. I had nothing from there.
» Just a couple I want to u confirm. I
think you said this earlier so I just
want to make sure I got this right that
you know the MCO's policies are the
minimum policies for every police agency
in the in the state of Michigan.
Correct.
>> Yes. because MCOs governs all of the
» Yes. because MCOs governs all of the
agencies within the state and obviously
um or for those that are not aware there
are many small agencies that don't have
the resources that much larger agencies
have to uh burden and so those the
policies that MOS makes has to also take
that into account and encompass what
those smaller agencies can do. So again
you are correct it is the minimum
standard
>> and the uh to the extent that we have
» and the uh to the extent that we have
different policies they are just
basically expansions of the MCO policies
perhaps even more detailed than the
MCO's policies. Is that correct?
>> Yes that is correct and we are an
» Yes that is correct and we are an
accredited agency through the Michigan
Association of Chiefs of Police as well
meaning that our standards have been
looked at thoroughly by outside sources
and our uh best practice.
And then I I want to ask you, you know,
in an officer involved shooting, is
there a policy which applies as to what
happens after the event has occurred?
>> Yeah. So, we've been relying on all of
» Yeah. So, we've been relying on all of
our policies and, you know, making sure
that we're following those on a daily
basis. There's several policies that
apply. Again, these are all on the site,
but there's um a deadly force policy,
there's critical incident policy, the
response to resistance policy, a media
policy. It's a combination of policies
that we've been following very very
closely over the last month.
>> And in uh in an officer involved
» And in uh in an officer involved
shooting, there is an investigation that
takes place after the event has
occurred. Is that correct?
>> Yes, that's what we
» Yes, that's what we
>> is there a standard policy that applies
» is there a standard policy that applies
to that with regard to the officer
involved.
>> So there's not very a specific policy
» So there's not very a specific policy
that states that, but that has been
protocol. So that's what we we will be
following.
>> And the protocol would be to place the
» And the protocol would be to place the
officer on administrative leave.
>> The the policy or excuse me, the
» The the policy or excuse me, the
protocol is for us to do an internal
investigation sometime after the
completion of the Michigan State Police
investigation. Is that what you're
asking?
>> I'm asking if the officer involved is
» I'm asking if the officer involved is
placed on administrative leave while the
investigation takes place.
So the administration um for the
department has some flexibility in terms
of what the status of those officers are
after the completion of the Michigan
State Police investigation.
>> Okay. After
» Okay. After
>> but during
» but during
what happens?
>> We still have that flexibility.
» We still have that flexibility.
>> Okay. And in and when the Michigan State
» Okay. And in and when the Michigan State
Police investigation is complete,
that report is provided to who?
>> So again, do you want us to speak to the
» So again, do you want us to speak to the
specific investigation?
» Are you asking specific to this
investigation or just in general?
>> Any any investigation. So, in general,
» Any any investigation. So, in general,
we can speak that um other agencies in
the county have experienced it where the
Michigan State Police have completed
their investigation. They turn it over
to the Ingram County Prosecutor's Office
where the prosecutor will then make a
decision and typically those cases are
turned over to the attorney general for
their final review. And that would be
our expectation that this uh particular
incident in that circumstance based on
what we know from Ingam County in the
past that uh the local prosecutor is
likely to turn this over to the attorney
general's office for in for
>> I think that's a fair expectation.
» I think that's a fair expectation.
>> Okay. And uh is there any knowledge as
» Okay. And uh is there any knowledge as
to how long those uh reviews typically
take? We do not.
>> Do you want me?
» Do you want me?
>> Yeah. Could you
» Yeah. Could you
>> just from experience they can take uh
» just from experience they can take uh
several months upwards of a year.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Or more.
» Or more.
>> Or more. Okay. And our expectation would
» Or more. Okay. And our expectation would
be that that's the process that we're
expecting to be followed going forward.
Is that right?
>> That is correct.
» That is correct.
>> Okay. Thanks. That's all I've got.
» Okay. Thanks. That's all I've got.
>> Yeah. Mr. Griggsby.
» Yeah. Mr. Griggsby.
>> Uh yes. Um,
» Uh yes. Um,
I'm I'm sorry. Is it Lieutenant Lauro or
is it Sergeant?
>> That's Captain O'Hario.
» That's Captain O'Hario.
>> Captain. Oh, I'm I'm actually sorry
» Captain. Oh, I'm I'm actually sorry
about that.
>> That's okay. [laughter]
» That's okay. [laughter]
>> Um, so I know I met with you at the
» Um, so I know I met with you at the
deescalation training that we just went
through and I appreciate you allowing me
to come in there and and allowing me to
kind of get a view of that training. But
you also talked about the other part of
your job. I think uh that is responsive
to the community. Is that correct? Or
can you explain to me what you told me
what you do when it comes to contact
with the community?
>> Yeah. What about community engagement?
» Yeah. What about community engagement?
>> Yes. Yes. Is that part of what you do?
» Yes. Yes. Is that part of what you do?
>> Yes, that is part of what I do.
» Yes, that is part of what I do.
>> Okay. So, and I'm just asking in
» Okay. So, and I'm just asking in
general, I just know that with this
going on and some of the timelines I'm
thinking that we're going to deal with,
is there a is there a capacity to
possibly work with an organized group of
the community? just talk with them and
meet with them in a in an appropriate
type of way in order for us to all be
working together as opposed to them
doing this and you guys doing that in a
way that respects
um the due process of everything that's
going on. Is that is that something that
that we could consider? um and not
specifically you to your job, but I just
was thinking about when we talked that I
didn't realize that there is a capacity
possibly or opportunity within that um
um in a way to
um I mean because look we I mean
eventually we'll be in a situation where
we'll be going forward and I think going
forward uh we have to do it together as
best we can when we can however we can
and um I just want to throw throw that I
guess that abstract idea out to all of
you. Uh and for the community also to be
in a situation where they're prepared to
also want to um have a productive
going forward eventually when it's
appropriate time to kind of do that. So
uh could you respond to that please?
>> Can I answer that please? So we are
» Can I answer that please? So we are
always looking for ways for community
engagement. Again, the difficulty is
because there's an open investigation
that could be several weeks or or up to
a year. We would be willing to have
those community type engagement events,
but it will be difficult because I think
the community will expect specific
answers to questions related to this
case. And so if there's ways to have
engagement and conversations and, you
know,
allow us to get feedback on how to do
things better, we're always willing to
make that happen. But again, we wouldn't
be able to answer any specifics about
this case.
>> Yeah. And I and and I understand that
» Yeah. And I and and I understand that
and I think to a certain level, a lot of
people do understand that in the
community. I I just think um
maybe in more in a general context as
far as policy, policy education, policy
goals, and just having a conversation
with uh community members who are
willing to
learn more about that so then they can
advocate in a way that is something
that's in intertwined with kind of the
department's goals as far as the
community is concerned and that
connection. I think that's what I'm
really asking about. Um, and just that
appetite for that and really quite
frankly the the necessity of that for us
to go forward as a department and the
community and and being able to start
eventually a process of healing. So,
>> so the chief did talk about that and
» so the chief did talk about that and
actually was presented in the slideshow.
We just did graduate 19 members from the
community uh from the citizens police
academy and currently our capacity is to
only host one citizens police academy a
year because our staffing is so so short
and so low. Uh we do other community
engagement events including recruiting
fairs at LCC which was the techmen of
colors. We're doing recruiting events uh
if we have staffing at the glam coming
up as well. Uh and community engagement
events where we have tables and we
interact with people. The Easter egg
hunt that was talked about in the slide.
So, we do quite a few, but in regards to
your specific like education piece, um
the Citizens Police Academy and there's
people um that have graduated that were
in the audience today that have
graduated from the Citizens Police
Academy and has been very uh successful
or eye opening for many. So, if you're
interested in that, I'd love to have you
jump in that class, but that will be
those are always held in the early
spring winter. Uh and those classes are
always full.
>> Thank you. Any further comments or
» Thank you. Any further comments or
questions? I had just one question
uh related to actually the swatting
incidents. [clears throat] So, you're
understaffed. Those things are probably
pretty intensive in terms of the
response u because you have to be
prepared for whatever could be going on
there for real. Could you address a
little bit how you manage to cover those
incidents um given your staffing levels?
So when we do have a drain on staff of a
major incident like that, um it does it
does uh pause essentially everything
that is non-priority or that is a lesser
priority. Um which causes uh potential
concern uh that we're aware of. Um and
if we need to, we call in mutual aid to
assist us. So uh we have mutual aid
agreements with all agencies that
surround us that will come in and assist
and back us. Some of them will respond
to the primary scene, in this instance,
the high school. Others will just kind
of backfill. Um if there's traffic
accidents where injuries occur or things
of that nature, they'll come in. Uh very
similar to the fire department, you saw
some of the stats on mutual aid runs as
well. Um so yes, that's why it is very
concerning that these swatting
incidences tie up uh resources that
could be used for other real emergencies
as in real occurring emergencies. Um and
so as we we look at that, we are working
with uh partners uh including uh larger
partners, state and federal um because
some of the swatting uh investigation is
being collaborated with them to try to
find out who actually did it. Um and we
will hold those people accountable um if
we can prove who they are. So it is very
serious.
>> Did the admin have to get involved?
» Did the admin have to get involved?
>> Pardon?
» Pardon?
>> Did admin have to get involved? So, um,
» Did admin have to get involved? So, um,
yeah, to answer your question a little
bit more specifically, um, so, um,
Assistant Chief Croft was at the first
swatting incident as well as the second
one. Um, so he led that first, um,
incident command. Um, and again,
regional partners had to be drawn in to
to assist with that incident. The second
one, um, Assistant Chief Craft and I
responded ourselves, um, again, to make
sure that, you know, the city was taken
care of and the high school was safe. Um
but for the second one, we had enough
staffing of our own to be able to handle
it. But again, um Captain O'Hary is spot
on in terms of the amount of resources
these take. And you know, it pulls away
from other incidences that we should be
responding to. So again, if it's
something simple as a traffic accident
in the city, even when there's no
injuries, you who wants to sit at that
traffic accident for an hour waiting for
a cop to arrive. So it definitely, you
know, depletes and defers our resources
on hand.
>> So it's all it's all hands- on deck in
» So it's all it's all hands- on deck in
that sort of situation.
>> Absolutely.
» Absolutely.
>> Any further questions? Council member
» Any further questions? Council member
Singh,
>> I just um I this is more directed uh to
» I just um I this is more directed uh to
the city manager to work with ELPD. two
of the items that came from the Citizens
for Justice talk about police policy. Uh
numbers three and four. If you could uh
work with the ELPD team to create, um
potential options for those two policy
areas um within the cited legal cases.
Um
I'd be interested to see that.
That's it.
>> Anything else?
» Anything else?
Anything from the city manager that we
need to hear?
>> I have nothing.
» I have nothing.
>> Okay. Any anything else we need to hear
» Okay. Any anything else we need to hear
from
>> police administration?
» police administration?
Thank you for all Thank you for coming
tonight and for addressing our
questions.
» Okay. Okay. So that brings us to item uh
4.2
discussion of proposed 2026 2027
strategic priorities. I will ask whether
people are up for forging ahead with
this.
>> It's only 133 pages.
» It's only 133 pages.
>> What's what's the goal out of this?
» What's what's the goal out of this?
Because I know it's been in our budget
pack. So it'd be good to understand.
» Yeah. So I'll let the city manager
address.
tonight is to review these draft
um strategic priorities for 2026 27 so
that ultimately you will adopt them and
they will become formal um for us to use
in guiding allocation of city resources
in the form of property taxes, income
tax, grants, water sour uh revenues,
fees and most importantly staff time.
>> [snorts]
» Mr. I with with everything going on, I
haven't had a chance to thoroughly I
just haven't had a chance to really
thoroughly go through this and I'm not
quite sure if I'm the only one um that
hasn't. Um but I would I would love the
opportunity to kind of really go through
this in a way that I can really
appreciate
um the 133 pages of information so I can
better wrap my head around that. Um, and
so I don't know uh kind of where
everyone else is with that, but that
would be something that I would hope we
could consider.
>> Others other thoughts?
I'll just say if if the if the question
is to defer this to the next um
discussion only meeting this is that
would be after the budget has been uh
approved hopefully [laughter] and if um
if anything any part of this really
impacts the decision that we're about to
make um I guess at the next business
meeting for uh with regard to the budget
then we probably should keep going. But
by the same token, I think it's a good
idea to give everybody an opportunity to
really get into this and think about it.
Some new members were not involved in
the in the the strategic priorities we
established two years ago. And uh you
know, I think it'd be useful to to make
sure that maybe we have uh a little more
sort of background information on what
we were trying to accomplish at that
time. So,
>> Council Member Singh, did that answer
» Council Member Singh, did that answer
your question? Did you have a follow-up?
>> I mean, it sounds like the purpose of
» I mean, it sounds like the purpose of
tonight's session is just to prepare us
to vote on the budget and agree with the
strategic priorities.
>> So, the purpose tonight is go through
» So, the purpose tonight is go through
the proposed 2627
um and offer any opportunities
>> priorities or budget. Wait, we
» priorities or budget. Wait, we
>> strategic priorities.
» strategic priorities.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
and offer opportunities to amend add
um priorities that may not have been
captured or amend some of the ones that
are being proposed.
>> So if I understand what you were saying
» So if I understand what you were saying
is that we need to go through this
process in order to stay within
alignment with our budget decision that
we have coming up. Is that what you're
saying?
>> No, I'm not saying that actually. Uh I
» No, I'm not saying that actually. Uh I
think that it is uh related to the
budget because our priorities you know
basically establish the budget but the
establishment of strategic priorities is
a thing of its own. This is the
council's priorities. This is not staff
priorities. you know, hopefully they
agree with them, but the reality is this
is us setting the priorities for the
next two years uh in terms of what our
expectations would be and and I'll just
say that in the you know when we
established the first set of strategic
priorities
the it had its own meeting
basically so that we had an indepth
discussion on each one of these things
and frankly it was a big deal and every
one of the five uh city council members
made a presentation to the public on one
of the priorities. So, uh it's changed
over the years um in some respects, but
this is an important document
that u the public I think needs to see
that we need to spend time with. And uh
so all I'm saying is we've got a budget
coming up to the extent that this may
dictate something in this budget. Then
maybe we got to spend the time right now
to to go through this. If it's not, then
uh we can have it on at a at a meeting
and spend the whole time digging through
this and making our comments with regard
to it. So, I don't know what everybody
wants to do, but I don't have a problem
with waiting to do this. I just don't
want it to impact what we're we're
required to do, which is to vote on this
budget. I think by the 29th
>> 6,
» 6,
>> I think it's before that actually the
» I think it's before that actually the
third meeting in in May.
>> Next meeting.
» Next meeting.
>> Next Tuesday.
» Next Tuesday.
>> Next meeting. The reality though is 98%
» Next meeting. The reality though is 98%
of our budgets ba I mean in terms of the
recommendation
>> for this year and the staff priorities
» for this year and the staff priorities
that you put together is how you built
the budget because you had staff
meetings. Yeah.
>> There's some priorities that are not
» There's some priorities that are not
funded.
>> It's a little
» It's a little
>> Yeah, it's a little
» Yeah, it's a little
>> it doesn't matter if we do this tonight.
» it doesn't matter if we do this tonight.
That's the punch line. Essentially, this
is us saying
regardless of this budget that over the
next two years, this is our expectation.
These will be our priorities. These are
the things that we want to accomplish
and that we need to be working to make
sure that those are accomplished during
that time. Doesn't mean we don't add
things or that other things come up, but
this is sort of the game plan. So,
>> Mr. Whan, did you have thoughts on this?
» Mr. Whan, did you have thoughts on this?
I thought [clears throat] I did get
through most of it. I did not get
through all of it.
Is there any way we can have a a bridge
version of the changes?
>> Is there significant changes from the
» Is there significant changes from the
last
um strategic priorities?
>> Well, part of my presentation was to
» Well, part of my presentation was to
identify those that were being carried
over
>> from 2425,
» from 2425,
but the other ones are new.
>> I'm sorry. What? Which ones are new?
» I'm sorry. What? Which ones are new?
>> I said part of my presentation would to
» I said part of my presentation would to
identify the ones that are being carried
over from 2425
and the others are new. [snorts]
>> And which ones are the new ones?
» And which ones are the new ones?
>> I'd be happy to walk through those with
» I'd be happy to walk through those with
you this evening. They're not noted on
the document you have.
>> Okay. Okay. Um Yeah. I [clears throat]
» Okay. Okay. Um Yeah. I [clears throat]
I wish I tried to devote enough time for
this, but there's a lot of other things
that can't get in the way. Um, and I do
app I do appreciate council member Singh
mentioning that this is kind of a staff
generated.
My concern is there's something in there
that I missed all of a sudden and it's
like, wait a minute, this is your
priority. Why aren't you doing this? So,
um I guess I'm leaning heavily
on
our city manager to say that this is
where
um this this is where we're heading and
I just want to make sure I can sign off
on it. So, I guess between now and next
Tuesday,
I will dive into it more. I'm just
wondering if there's a cliffnotes of
some of the changes that that we need to
be aware of. Um because I don't know
what the I don't know what they were two
years ago.
Does that make sense?
>> Yes, I understand.
» Yes, I understand.
>> So, how long would it take for you to
» So, how long would it take for you to
present the changes?
>> I can identify the ones that are
» I can identify the ones that are
carryover from prior years. If you want
me just to highlight those this evening,
>> I I suggest we do a little bit of work
» I I suggest we do a little bit of work
on that front. Does that would are
people okay with that? Um
>> highlight the the the carryovers.
» highlight the the the carryovers.
That'll get us thinking about it and
then I suggest that we um just carry
this over to our next DO meeting so that
we all have a chance to
finish the review. Is that
» I think that's a good way of going.
>> Mayor Prom.
» Mayor Prom.
>> Yes, sir.
» Yes, sir.
>> Council Sang.
» Council Sang.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> So, just the floor is yours. uh if I may
» So, just the floor is yours. uh if I may
2026 27 strategic priorities include 60
goals under six focus areas. Focus areas
are financial stability that have nine
goals, strong economy that have four,
sound infrastructure and environmental
sustainability have nine goals, safe
community has 12, sense of place has
eight, and high performing government
has 18. So I'm going to just highlight
the ones um
that carry over from
2425
and there are under financial stability.
Goal eight and goal nine carryover from
the prior strategic priorities
[clears throat]
[snorts]
under the focus area of a strong
economy. Goal one, goal two,
and goal three carryover from prior
strategic priorities.
under sound infrastructure and
environmental sustainability.
Um the opening statement is really
continuation of 2425.
Um, goal seven number A and goal number
two is a continuation as well as goal
three
and and
uh goal four action item L,
goal six,
goal seven, and goal eight
as well as
goal 10 in that focus area [snorts]
under the focus area of safe community.
Those were all new
under sense of place.
uh goal one,
goal two,
goal five,
goal six,
our carryover from 202425.
And under the final focus area of high
performing government, goal one,
goal five,
goal 7,
goal 10,
goal 18, carryover from 24 25.
[snorts]
I can send that out in a memo to you too
if you would like me to [laughter]
>> I know you have strong recollection and
» I know you have strong recollection and
>> so we've had a request to to do that.
» so we've had a request to to do that.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Um any reactions to that brief overview
» Um any reactions to that brief overview
questions or comments?
>> Mr. Griggsby,
» Mr. Griggsby,
>> I just thank you for adjusting. I mean I
» I just thank you for adjusting. I mean I
know you
>> Oh, you're welcome. you had a you had a
» Oh, you're welcome. you had a you had a
something probably else in mind and I
like I said I do apologize that um I
just didn't thoroughly have a the
capacity to go through all of this and I
really want to appreciate it and learn
up because I you know this I think this
is important as as council member uh
Meadows had mentioned um and there was a
lot of work put into this and I just
want to make sure that I'm on the same
page uh as I visit departments and meet
with people and just kind really make
sure that I'm understanding
um how to best serve going forward. So,
thank you.
>> Sure.
» Sure.
>> And and if I may, the biggest component
» And and if I may, the biggest component
of the
133 pages is just a recap and kind of
summary report of the 2425 strategic
priorities. Um you know, we tried to
identify in a graphic format those that
were completed had a check mark. Those
that were still being made or progress
being made had an upward arrow and then
those that no progress was being made
was a downward arrow. But after that is
a lot of details that were shared by
departments identifying specific
actions, events, programs, services that
supported
those summary reports.
>> Council member
» Council member
>> questions. Yeah, just um so as staff was
» questions. Yeah, just um so as staff was
going through some of the the fire chief
that
um
is it increasing cost recovery by 3%.
>> Right.
» Right.
>> Is that an achievable goal that staff
» Is that an achievable goal that staff
felt comfortable in including?
>> I believe so.
» I believe so.
>> Okay. We chose that.
» Okay. We chose that.
>> And then for the
» And then for the
um I think there's another one in terms
of the parks and rock um
>> reducing [clears throat] the general
» reducing [clears throat] the general
fund contribution.
>> Yeah. By 10%.
» Yeah. By 10%.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Um do is that achievable?
» Um do is that achievable?
>> So we're we're close. When we did the
» So we're we're close. When we did the
adjustment at the last meeting of about
400,000,
you know, we were just shy of 10%
because I think we're 2.6 6 million. So
that would have been about 520.
So about 120,000 shy. I thought that was
a nice attempt. And I'm I know they'll
continue to work on trying to shave off
costs.
>> And and has the uh parks and wreck
» And and has the uh parks and wreck
commission
had any feedback for our director on
that goal?
>> Uh not that I'm aware of. I know he was
» Uh not that I'm aware of. I know he was
provided the flexibility of how to
absorb that reduction in 400,000 and I
know he was going to take it back to the
advisory board to share with them some
of his um conceptual approaches. I don't
know if that's taken place
>> and and forgive me because I am skimming
» and and forgive me because I am skimming
back through the presentation uh
in term like I'm looking at some of the
sense of place and this is definitely
you know one of the best attributes of
the city of East Lancing but one I would
argue is in a challenging time right Now
um
like when you talk about address
barriers to participation of community
outreach and analyzing program
participation in demographic area is
that going to be departmentwide
departmentalwide across the enterprise.
>> Yeah I I'm sure uh the approach is
» Yeah I I'm sure uh the approach is
across departments but it's going to
focus on you know I know Matt Apostle is
doing some of that through DMB and
tracking who comes to events. I know
parks and wreck and arts have been doing
that through all of their programs. Uh
the scholarship that they offer allows
for those that may not be able to afford
outright to attend to be able to attend
and participate in some of those
programs. So that hits some of the
points that fall under [snorts] that
goal
>> including demographic area, you know,
» including demographic area, you know,
and this the whole [snorts]
equity piece that has become a bad term
under this federal administration.
Um, I know once upon a time we talked
about or at least privately you and I
had had a conversation about publishing,
you know, demographic data on our
workforce,
>> right,
» right,
>> and moving the needle. Um, do we have
» and moving the needle. Um, do we have
any of those pieces outlined
enterprisewide? And I say that's across
all departments. That's where some I
mean the work that still needs to be
done is to um report on it and see if we
are in fact having positive impact
through the investments we make either
through uh DEI
office and through HR and our
recruitment efforts, our um training
opportunities and trying to get um at
the organizational level, the workg
groupoup level and the supervisory level
all aligned with um inclusive
type activities, policies and um
behavior
>> and how like action item D leverage
» and how like action item D leverage
mutually beneficial partnerships to
provide relevant opportunities to
responsive to that are responsive to
community needs. Like who's in charge of
that?
>> Which one are you talking about?
» Which one are you talking about?
>> Sense of place action item D.
» Sense of place action item D.
You want to talk? I'm talking.
It's because of Whan. Whan, we're still
here.
>> Is that under which goal? I'm sorry.
» Is that under which goal? I'm sorry.
>> Sense of place.
» Sense of place.
>> It's on category.
» It's on category.
>> So, I'm looking for
» So, I'm looking for
>> page in my document here.
» page in my document here.
>> Okay. But there's a goal. Is it goal one
» Okay. But there's a goal. Is it goal one
item D?
>> It's after safe community sense of goal
» It's after safe community sense of goal
one action item D.
>> B. D is in dog.
» B. D is in dog.
>> Okay. Leverage mutually beneficial
» Okay. Leverage mutually beneficial
partnerships to provide relevant
opportunities that are responsive to
community needs. Yeah.
>> It'll be parks and wreck. It'll be, you
» It'll be parks and wreck. It'll be, you
know, other departments that do have
partnerships
um through our neighbors,
be it the university,
be it the downtown.
Okay.
>> But I'll get you further clarification
» But I'll get you further clarification
if
>> Well, I guess at the end of the day,
» Well, I guess at the end of the day,
you're in charge ultimately.
>> Absolutely.
» Absolutely.
>> All right, I'm done.
» All right, I'm done.
>> So, a couple of comments. I like this
» So, a couple of comments. I like this
approach. I think I've been through a
bunch of versions of the strategic
priorities as Mark was saying earlier
and I like I like this idea of having
staff because they've got hands-on every
day and generating you know ideas and
then and then we get to sort of
snapshot them in place. So I I like this
approach. One of the things that struck
me during your recitation of the
carryover is that there's a lot of new
goals and action items on here. Um, and
I guess my [clears throat] question is
whether uh
whether there's too many or an
appropriate number or whether it sort of
dovetailes with what we're doing anyway.
I don't want I guess my point is I don't
want people to think that
we're asking them to go beyond
what they have the capacity to do.
That's kind of my question. And so I
don't know if
I hope there's a I hope that appropriate
level of realism is already built in
here, but I hope as we sort of review
this that people should feel free to
say, okay, this this just is too much
for us or something like that. That's I
don't know if you want to address that
comment.
>> Sure. So that is in part why this
» Sure. So that is in part why this
approach was taken. Uh if you recall
back in 24 in January, departments got
up and just told you some of the
challenges and opportunities that they
faced and then council shaped the 10
goals that we adopted in 2425.
This one is one it involved all
departments. They all have some element
of goals and act action items in this
document. Two, they uh tried to focus on
what they're already working on. Um,
three, yes, there's 60 goals in here. We
may not get to them all where we say at
the end of two years they're complete.
Some of these goals are going to be
ongoing um and require continuous
conversation with council coming back
about implications
of i.e. the storm water authority to
pursue examine setting up a storm water
authority is going to have multiple
levels of discussion with council as to
what does that look like? what is the
implications financially and how will it
benefit the city moving forward.
>> Okay, that's helpful. So, as long as
» Okay, that's helpful. So, as long as
people know that not every goal needs to
be accomplished in, you know, two years,
that's I think that's important.
>> Yeah. No, as you noticed too, as some of
» Yeah. No, as you noticed too, as some of
the ones that were not completed carried
over.
>> Yep.
» Yep.
Um
>> I'm sorry.
» I'm sorry.
>> Was there council member Singh? Did you
» Was there council member Singh? Did you
have something you wanted to contribute?
>> [laughter]
» [laughter]
>> I'm just reacting to your statement like
» I'm just reacting to your statement like
it's just strange to me to have a goal
document and then say we're not we may
not achieve them. Like that is
bizarre to me from a planning
standpoint, from a strategic plan, from
an operational standpoint.
Um they are there with the intent of
trying to achieve. But as we all know,
you know, this document will change.
It's supposed to be a living document
based on what we face over the next two
years. some of what we may get
challenged by bump some of these off the
front page and become secondary.
>> We've definitely experienced that.
» We've definitely experienced that.
>> And there's also that opens the door to
» And there's also that opens the door to
opportunities too, right? So if
>> things change in a way that make it
» things change in a way that make it
possible to make pro progress on a goal
that we couldn't make before, then
that's an opportunity.
>> Exactly.
» Exactly.
>> Um I did have one comment having said
» Um I did have one comment having said
that I think there might be too many
goals. cuz I want to float the idea of
adding a new one um to the sense of
place. Um
>> the comment on that too.
» the comment on that too.
>> Yes, you absolutely do. [laughter]
» Yes, you absolutely do. [laughter]
Uh which is something that it's grown
out out of the conversations we've had
the past couple of years which is um
under sense of place to add a new goal
to maintain stability of residential
neighborhoods.
Um and I can think of a couple agenda or
a couple action items that might be
candidates for that. one is to um
continue to help um homeowners and
realtors understand our rental
regulations
so that they know what they're getting
into. Um and also uh work with realtors
to um help prospective homeowners to try
to prevent violations of our rental
regulations before they occur. And I
suspect we're already doing those things
um to some extent. Um but if we are then
it might not hurt to add it. Um, sure.
But I think there is this issue of sort
of
>> helping people understand uh how we got
» helping people understand uh how we got
to where we are in terms of our the sort
of the landscape of our of our
neighborhoods and how the regulations
are relevant to that.
Any further comments on that or anything
else?
Okay. So, we will plan to then see this
on our next DO meeting agenda. Um, a
month from now
or three weeks from now,
>> three weeks.
» three weeks.
>> Three weeks. Um, and we'll we got the
» Three weeks. Um, and we'll we got the
ball rolling tonight. So, at that point,
we'll have a sort of fuller discussion.
Any further comments on anything else?
Okay, that brings us to uh item five,
which is adjournment. Is there a motion?
>> I move to adjurnn. Moved by Singh,
» I move to adjurnn. Moved by Singh,
second by Whan. All those in favor say
I.
>> I. Motion carries. We are
» I. Motion carries. We are
>> adjourned. Thank you all.