[10:11] Welcome everyone to the East Lancing
[10:14] City Council discussion only meeting of
[10:16] May 19th, 2026. Uh the meeting will come
[10:20] to order. Could we have the roll call,
[10:21] please?
[10:23] >> Council member Council Member Whan
[10:26] » Council member Council Member Whan
[10:26] >> here.
[10:26] » here.
[10:26] >> Council member Meadows
[10:27] » Council member Meadows
[10:27] >> here. Council member Singh
[10:29] » here. Council member Singh
[10:29] >> here.
[10:30] » here.
[10:30] >> Mayor Prom Griggsby
[10:31] » Mayor Prom Griggsby
[10:31] >> here.
[10:31] » here.
[10:31] >> Mayor Alman
[10:32] » Mayor Alman
[10:32] >> here. Is there a motion to approve the
[10:35] » here. Is there a motion to approve the
[10:35] agenda?
[10:37] >> So moved.
[10:37] » So moved.
[10:37] >> Moved by Meadows.
[10:38] » Moved by Meadows.
[10:38] >> Second.
[10:39] » Second.
[10:39] >> Second by Griggsby. Any discussion of
[10:41] » Second by Griggsby. Any discussion of
[10:41] the agenda?
[10:43] All those in favor say I.
[10:45] >> I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Agenda
[10:47] » I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Agenda
[10:48] is approved.
[10:50] Uh communications from the audience.
[10:54] Um, I will call the slips in the order
[10:56] that I have received them. First speaker
[10:58] is Erica Zedzik Hernandez.
[11:11] » Good evening.
[11:13] Thank you for the opportunity to speak
[11:15] this evening.
[11:17] I'm an employee of the city of East
[11:19] Lancing. I report directly to the city
[11:21] manager.
[11:23] My purpose tonight is share is to share
[11:25] my experience working for Robert Belman.
[11:29] Since the city manager reports directly
[11:31] to you,
[11:33] I feel it is important for you to
[11:35] understand my experience.
[11:38] In 2025,
[11:40] Robert sexually harassed me
[11:44] and was verbally abusive towards me.
[11:48] His nickname for me was too easy.
[11:51] The first time he said it to me, I had
[11:54] no idea what he meant. As a defense
[11:57] mechanism, I quickly turned it into a
[11:59] harmless joke. He would frequently say
[12:02] to me, "You're too easy." And laugh. To
[12:05] me, it felt like he was insulting either
[12:07] my intelligence or my sexuality.
[12:10] Either way, I hated it.
[12:17] But I truly didn't know what to do. He's
[12:20] my boss and the city manager.
[12:25] His former assistant witnessed him
[12:27] calling me this nickname on numerous
[12:29] occasions.
[12:30] It got so bad that she pulled me aside
[12:33] and told me she didn't like how Robert
[12:35] talked to me. I told her I was fine and
[12:38] I could handle it.
[12:40] One evening, Robert and I were leaving
[12:42] City Hall together. We were alone.
[12:47] As we walked down the stairs, Robert
[12:49] joked and said, "Come on, Pokey." I told
[12:52] him that I'm slow on the stairs because
[12:55] my knees are bad. Robert responded by
[12:58] muttering, "Too easy." under his breath.
[13:01] I felt disgusted and embarrassed.
[13:05] I immediately pretended like the
[13:07] incident never happened.
[13:10] On another occasion, Robert threatened
[13:12] my job.
[13:14] We were discussing a grant and he asked
[13:17] me rapidfired questions. He looked and
[13:19] acted frustrated. When Robert is upset,
[13:22] he tends to ask me questions in such
[13:25] quick succession that I don't have time
[13:27] to think of a response before he is on
[13:29] to his next question.
[13:32] As a result, I feel stupid and he acts
[13:34] as if he is in control. Such was this
[13:37] occasion. He angrily said, "Why do I now
[13:41] have two grant writers? How much do you
[13:44] and unnamed co-worker make combined in
[13:47] one year? 150,000. That would ease the
[13:51] city's budget deficit if I didn't have
[13:53] to pay for two grant writers. His former
[13:56] assistant witnessed this interaction and
[13:59] looked visibly shocked.
[14:02] Robert tried to intimidate me to follow
[14:04] his direction. He gave me instructions
[14:07] and I saved and and I asked him
[14:09] questions which led to a discussion. As
[14:12] he walked away from me, he mumbled
[14:14] something and laughed. I asked him what
[14:16] he said. He looked at me and smirked. He
[14:19] walked towards me, leaned in very close,
[14:22] and whispered, "I trump everybody."
[14:27] He laughed out loud as he left my
[14:29] office.
[14:30] I reported these incidents on others
[14:32] using the proper channels as directed by
[14:35] city policy, an investigation opened and
[14:38] closed. To my knowledge, Robert has not
[14:41] been held accountable or received
[14:43] consequences for his actions. I do not
[14:45] see measurable change in his behavior.
[14:48] Yes, the surre the sexual harassment and
[14:50] outright verbal abuse directed at me has
[14:52] stopped, but that is a very low bar.
[14:56] When someone treats you in a degrading
[14:58] way and makes you feel less than, it
[15:01] stays with you.
[15:04] I am deeply concerned that he could
[15:06] repeat his behavior. Publicly, the city
[15:09] manager can appear friendly and
[15:11] thoughtful. However, he is a different
[15:13] person behind closed doors.
[15:15] Every day, I never know which Robert I
[15:17] will encounter, and it is stressful to
[15:20] consistently work in this environment.
[15:23] Three members of the 2023
[15:27] East Lancing City Council hired Robert
[15:30] Bellman. Even though his past in Sageno
[15:33] County is well known, I filed my
[15:37] complaint against the city manager
[15:39] during the tenure of the 2025 city
[15:41] council. I ask this council to do what
[15:45] the previous councils could not. I ask
[15:48] you to break the cycle of abuse and hold
[15:50] the city manager accountable.
[15:54] Silence perpetuates abuse. And I am done
[15:58] being silent.
[15:59] >> You have 30 seconds remaining.
[16:01] » You have 30 seconds remaining.
[16:01] >> Thank you, Rashidita Harrison.
[16:04] » Thank you, Rashidita Harrison.
[16:04] [applause]
[16:25] » [snorts]
[16:25] >> Good evening. My name is Dr. Rashidita
[16:27] » Good evening. My name is Dr. Rashidita
[16:28] Harrison. I'm a candidate for State
[16:30] Senate District 28, which is this
[16:33] district, a community member,
[16:36] and I am a mother of a little boy.
[16:39] I attended the press conference last
[16:41] week and had the honor of hugging Karen
[16:44] Kirby, Isaiah's mother. I attended
[16:47] because Isaiah could have been one of my
[16:49] students. And when I look at his
[16:52] picture, I know he could be my son.
[16:56] I am also here. I'm sorry. I'm here
[17:00] tonight for two reasons, actually.
[17:01] [laughter]
[17:02] Um, first I know firsthand the fear
[17:05] black mothers have for their children,
[17:07] knowing the dangers they face every day
[17:09] for just existing while praying that you
[17:12] never have to face losing your child to
[17:14] state violence. I am also here because
[17:18] what I witnessed last week made
[17:20] something clear to me. When a city's
[17:23] response to community grief is to manage
[17:27] it rather than meet it, there is a
[17:31] governance problem. [applause]
[17:34] This is not just a police problem.
[17:41] Honestly, I couldn't watch the video.
[17:44] I've been watching black men killed
[17:46] publicly by police officers my entire
[17:49] life. So, I read and watched reports and
[17:52] talked to community members, and what we
[17:55] learned is officers opened fired on
[17:58] Isaiah even as non-lethal options were
[18:02] available.
[18:04] His mother counted at least 17 gunshot
[18:06] wounds, including many to his back.
[18:10] The family's attorney stated that
[18:12] officers continued to fire after he had
[18:14] already fallen to the ground.
[18:17] The question before this council is not
[18:20] simply what the law permits. The
[18:23] question is what kind of community are
[18:26] we choosing to be?
[18:29] I also want to name what happened in the
[18:31] room last week. This council voted to
[18:34] reduce public comment from 5 minutes to
[18:36] three and to ban the act of clapping or
[18:38] other forms of human emotion to issues
[18:41] of justice and injustice. A former
[18:44] council member named it clearly. She
[18:46] said, "Now that the black and brown
[18:47] people are showing up, suddenly there's
[18:49] a resolution that reduces our public
[18:52] comment.
[18:53] These measures appear to give the
[18:55] council reason to bar community members.
[19:00] Essentially, you've criminalized the
[19:02] sound of solidarity.
[19:05] We are living in a moment where black
[19:07] and brown voices are being silenced and
[19:10] shut down at every level of this
[19:12] country, federally, legislatively,
[19:16] institutionally.
[19:19] I would hope that here at home we would
[19:22] choose differently,
[19:23] that this would be the place where we
[19:25] resist that urge and not replicate it. I
[19:28] would hope that we choose democracy,
[19:31] allowing the people's voices to be
[19:33] heard.
[19:34] I am imploring you, please govern using
[19:38] a politics of care where the people are
[19:41] centered. It is not only possible to do
[19:44] your jobs and govern empathetically.
[19:47] It is only it is the only way to
[19:50] ethically actually do it. The people in
[19:53] this room are not a problem to be
[19:56] managed. We are your constituents and we
[20:00] are watching.
[20:02] Thank you, Rebecca Quasin.
[20:05] [applause]
[20:10] My name is Rebecca Kasein. I come here
[20:12] as a private citizen, not on behalf of
[20:14] any commissions, organizations, or
[20:15] campaigns I'm connected to. I'm here
[20:17] because I'm furious. I'm here because
[20:20] Isaiah Kirby's blood is on your hands.
[20:22] For more than six months, this community
[20:24] has come before you, begging you to
[20:26] confront the racism inside the East
[20:28] Lancing Police Department. We came here
[20:29] with testimony, with evidence, with
[20:31] pain, and every single time this council
[20:34] chose self-preservation over
[20:35] accountability. Isaiah Kirby's blood is
[20:37] on your hands. In August, two innocent
[20:40] young black men were pepper-sprayed by
[20:42] an East Lancing police officer.
[20:43] Innocent. And instead of protecting
[20:46] those young men, Chief Jen Brown went on
[20:48] television and painted them as
[20:49] criminals. She released their names,
[20:51] charged them, lied about what they had
[20:53] or had not done, and she just continued
[20:56] to spread false narratives. She warned
[20:58] people that minorities from outside the
[21:00] community are coming here to commit
[21:01] crimes. There there are children. They
[21:05] live here. Blackness itself was just
[21:08] enough to just blackness itself was
[21:10] enough to justify suspicion.
[21:12] This is why Isaiah Kirby's blood is on
[21:14] your hands. We demanded accountability.
[21:17] We demanded Chief Brown resign or be
[21:19] terminated. We demanded discipline from
[21:21] every officer for every officer
[21:22] involved. Instead, the city circled its
[21:24] wagons. One officer quietly resigned and
[21:26] everyone else was protected by this
[21:28] machine. Isaiah's blood is on your
[21:30] hands. And while residents begged you to
[21:32] address the racism, this council spent
[21:34] its energy trying to silence descent.
[21:36] You tried to bully the Human Rights
[21:38] Commission when we when we investigated
[21:40] the discrimination. You advanced racist
[21:42] ordinances disguised as as public
[21:44] safety. At your last meeting, you went
[21:46] so far as to pass rules threatening
[21:48] residents with removal or arrest for
[21:50] clapping, cheering, or cheering at
[21:52] public meetings. Clapping. cheering,
[21:54] human emotion. You call it decorum.
[21:57] Let's call it what it really is.
[21:58] Control, respectability, politics, white
[22:01] supremacy wrapped up in parliamentary
[22:03] procedure.
[22:08] You are more disturbed by loud residents
[22:10] than by armed officers brutalizing black
[22:12] people. You are more offended by
[22:15] disruption in this chamber than by
[22:16] violence in the streets. You sit here
[22:19] demanding silence from the public while
[22:20] empowering people with guns, badgers,
[22:22] and immunity to kill. Isaiah's blood is
[22:25] on your hands.
[22:27] Then came Isaiah,
[22:29] a human being in the middle of a mental
[22:31] health crisis. A man holding a knife to
[22:33] his own neck. A man who needed
[22:34] intervention, compassion, distance,
[22:37] deescalation, and trained trained crisis
[22:39] response. I know those responses are
[22:42] possible because I've lived it. I had to
[22:44] call 911 for a family member having a
[22:45] mental health crisis. The East Lancing
[22:47] police who responded treated my family
[22:49] member with patience, kindness, empathy,
[22:51] and humanity. Nobody fired 17 bullets.
[22:55] Nobody treated this person like a
[22:56] monster. Nobody decided their life was
[22:58] disposable. And so I have to question uh
[23:02] this coun I so I have to ask the
[23:03] question this council refuses to
[23:04] confront. Why was compassion available
[23:07] for my family member but not Isaiah? Is
[23:09] it because my family member was white?
[23:12] Are we living in an aparttheid city
[23:13] where public services, safety, patience,
[23:15] empathy, and humanity are reserved for
[23:17] people with less melanin?
[23:19] >> Because that's what this looks like.
[23:21] » Because that's what this looks like.
[23:21] Isaiah's blood is on your hands.
[23:24] This department loves to brag about its
[23:26] CRIT training, mental health, first aid,
[23:28] deescalation, community policing. You
[23:30] hold press conferences and trainings and
[23:32] photo ops to convince the public that
[23:33] these officers are prepared to preserve
[23:35] life. But when the moment came to prove
[23:38] it, they emptied 17 bullets into a man
[23:40] in crisis. 17 shots. Not one officer
[23:43] decided that Isaiah's life was worth
[23:45] slowing down for. Not one officer
[23:47] decided to try and use non-lethal force.
[23:50] Funny how this department had no problem
[23:51] pepper spraying innocent black men a few
[23:53] months ago, but suddenly forgot every
[23:55] non-lethal option when a black man's
[23:57] life was actually hanging in the
[23:58] balance. That is not public safety. That
[24:01] is not protection. That is a publicly
[24:03] funded execution. Isaiah's blood is on
[24:06] your hands. And every single one of you
[24:09] who stays silent shares the
[24:10] responsibility. Every council member who
[24:12] hides behind waiting for investigations.
[24:15] Every official who refuses to challenge
[24:16] Chief Brown. Every person in this body
[24:19] who cares more about the city's image
[24:21] than the lives being destroyed but uh by
[24:24] the people acting in your name. This did
[24:26] not happen in a vacuum. You were warned
[24:29] over and over and over again. You were
[24:31] warned that there was a cultural problem
[24:32] inside this department. You were warned
[24:34] about racism, about escalation, about
[24:37] hostility towards the community. And
[24:38] instead of acting, you treated the
[24:40] people sound the people sounding like
[24:42] the alarm like they were the problem.
[24:44] Now a man is dead. Isaiah's blood is on
[24:47] your hands. And I do not want to hear
[24:49] thoughts and prayers. I do not want to
[24:51] hear carefully scripted condolences.
[24:53] >> 30 seconds remaining.
[24:54] » 30 seconds remaining.
[24:54] >> I do not want to hear about another task
[24:55] » I do not want to hear about another task
[24:55] force, another statement, another
[24:57] promise to listen and learn. We are far
[24:59] beyond that. What happened to Isaiah
[25:01] Kirby was not an unavoidable tragedy. It
[25:03] was the predictable outcome of a police
[25:05] culture that this council continues to
[25:07] protect. A culture where black people
[25:09] are treated as threats first and human
[25:11] beings second. A culture where criticism
[25:13] is dismissed, accountability is delayed,
[25:15] and violence is excused. You built this.
[25:17] You defended it. You enabled it.
[25:19] Isaiah's blood is on your hands.
[25:22] >> Thank you, Kath Edel.
[25:24] » Thank you, Kath Edel.
[25:24] [applause]
[25:28] » What was it?
[25:30] Can you repeat the name please?
[25:32] >> Kath Edel
[25:44] 6 months of us pointing out racism and
[25:47] more than likely it'll be sexual
[25:49] harassment that takes him down. That's
[25:51] white supremacy.
[25:53] 300 years of humiliation, abuse, and
[25:55] deprivation cannot be expected to find
[25:58] voice in a whisper. Martin Luther King
[26:00] Jr. While this council has made it clear
[26:03] they would prefer that we whisper, we
[26:05] are here to say hell no. A system of
[26:08] oversight that recover requires public
[26:10] comment is a system that does not want
[26:13] to be informed. A system that treats
[26:16] black dignity like a provocation and not
[26:19] a birthright is a white supremacist
[26:22] system. We are angry. We are frustrated.
[26:25] And we foretold this outcome for months
[26:28] and years before today. By now, most if
[26:32] not all of us have seen the video
[26:33] footage released by the city of the
[26:34] police killing of Isaiah Christopher
[26:36] Kirby. Most of us sitting in the gallery
[26:38] can hold space for two truths. Mr.
[26:40] Mock's assault was horrific and Mr.
[26:42] Kirby's death was unnecessarily caused
[26:44] by excessive force committed by the East
[26:46] Lancing Police Department. After
[26:49] impaneling national and local experts on
[26:50] use of force, the East Lancing
[26:52] Independent Police Oversight Commission
[26:53] crafted a draft rewrite of ELPD's use of
[26:56] force policy in 2023. The department
[26:59] declined to implement our suggestions
[27:01] and chose to stick with the bare minimum
[27:03] standards and current paramilitarized
[27:05] training. One suggestion we made was to
[27:07] add the following. The de the department
[27:09] recognizes and respects the sanctity and
[27:11] value of each human life and gives the
[27:13] highest priority to the preservation of
[27:14] human life and safety for all people
[27:17] involved. The department initially
[27:19] declined but later added this because it
[27:21] was required for accreditation.
[27:23] We suggested that they keep the fourth,
[27:25] fifth and 14th amendments in the
[27:26] forefront as the lowest bar. They
[27:29] declined. The fifth amendment reads in
[27:31] part, "No person shall be deprived of
[27:33] life, liberty, or property without due
[27:35] process of law." Mr. Kirby was deprived
[27:38] all three. We also suggested they
[27:40] include the US Supreme Court decision
[27:42] Tennessee versus Garner, which concluded
[27:44] that the use of deadly force is
[27:45] reasonable if the officer has probable
[27:47] cause to believe that the suspect poses
[27:49] a significant threat of death or serious
[27:53] physical injury to other officers or
[27:55] others. How is a man laying on the
[27:57] ground already shot multiple times who
[27:59] appears to be holding a knife to his own
[28:01] throat a significant threat? We are
[28:03] angry. We are heartbroken. And we know
[28:05] that 300 years of humiliation, abuse,
[28:07] and deprivation will not end today. We
[28:10] know this for many reasons, including a
[28:11] comprehensive police violence report
[28:13] released by the nonprofit research
[28:15] organization Mapping Police Violence
[28:17] shows that at least 121 people were
[28:20] killed by law enforcement officers
[28:22] across the United States in 2025. So far
[28:25] in 2026, 449 individuals have been
[28:28] killed, including 96 black people, or
[28:30] 22% of the total deaths in a country
[28:33] where black people comprise
[28:34] approximately 12% of the population.
[28:37] There have only been five days so far
[28:40] this year where police officers not
[28:42] killed someone. 95% of the deaths
[28:45] involving police officers resulted from
[28:47] police shootings. We also know that
[28:49] fewer than 1% of police related killings
[28:51] result in officers being charged with a
[28:54] crime with charges filed in only eight
[28:57] cases in 2025. Furthermore, black
[29:00] prosecutors, particularly black women,
[29:02] primarily represented those who pursued
[29:04] criminal charges and police related
[29:06] deaths from 2013 to 2025. Although black
[29:10] women make up only 1% of elected
[29:11] prosecutors nationwide, they account for
[29:13] 8% of prosecutors who filed charges
[29:16] against officers. 9% of those who
[29:19] secured convictions and 16% of
[29:22] prosecutors who brought charges in two
[29:23] or more deadly force incidences.
[29:26] The Michigan's AG office is run by a
[29:28] white woman. The Ingam County prosecutor
[29:30] is a white man. There is no justice for
[29:33] a black man in a system of whiteness so
[29:35] entrenched on preserving white
[29:36] supremacy. As this council continues to
[29:39] focus on process and procedures,
[29:41] families are hurting in large part
[29:42] because process has never meant justice.
[29:45] East Lancing can and must do better than
[29:47] the lowest bar. I will close with
[29:50] another quote from Martin Luther King
[29:51] Jr. For years I have heard the word
[29:54] wait. This weight has almost always
[29:56] meant never. Thank you.
[29:59] >> Thank you Erica Schmidt deal. [applause]
[30:07] call and speak soon.
[30:10] >> Hello, my name is Erica Schmidt deal. I
[30:12] » Hello, my name is Erica Schmidt deal. I
[30:12] am a social worker and I'm a resident of
[30:14] East Lancing. I am here to ask for
[30:17] resignations from Jen Brown and I was
[30:20] not planning to ask for a resignation
[30:22] from Mr. Bellman, but now I will um
[30:25] having heard the first speaker of today.
[30:27] Um I find it appalling that Mr. Bellman
[30:30] would state that he is going to be
[30:32] transparent and that the city will be
[30:34] transparent um with the Michigan State
[30:37] Police in the investigation when Ellie's
[30:41] um ability to do anything in terms of
[30:44] advancing racial justice in policing in
[30:47] East Lancing has been curtailed. Um
[30:51] really use of force and racial profiling
[30:55] are not issues that just go back six
[30:57] months. I know um thanks to our many of
[31:00] our community members, these issues are
[31:02] getting much more attention in the last
[31:04] 6 months, but East Lancing has always
[31:06] been a sundown town. Um I think
[31:09] everybody knows that. Um and I think
[31:11] it's time that we stop pretending it's
[31:13] not. Um I think we need some radical
[31:16] changes um here in our city um to make
[31:20] it more welcoming and more safe for
[31:22] people of color. Um, and I think we
[31:24] should really consider when has the
[31:27] NAACP ever been on the wrong side of
[31:29] history and if they are calling for
[31:32] resignations, we should listen.
[31:35] >> Thank you. Annie Kase.
[31:41] » Who was it?
[31:43] >> Annie Kase.
[31:57] Hello, my name is Annie Kase. I am 6
[32:02] years old and
[32:05] and I in
[32:07] >> kindergarten
[32:08] » kindergarten
[32:08] >> in kindergarten at Red Elementary
[32:12] » in kindergarten at Red Elementary
[32:12] School. I ca I came here
[32:18] months ago talked
[32:21] about how the police weren't fair to
[32:26] people with different skin colors.
[32:32] My young My five's teacher, Miss Brace,
[32:37] taught me how to be an upstand. She
[32:42] taught me that when something is wrong,
[32:49] you should you are supposed to speak up
[32:55] even when it is hard.
[32:58] My kindergarten teacher,
[33:02] >> Miss Man
[33:04] » Miss Man
[33:04] taught me about perseverance, not giving
[33:09] up when things are hard.
[33:12] And so I have to come back again
[33:18] and again because
[33:21] grown-ups are [laughter] who
[33:25] are supposed to
[33:28] lead
[33:30] and protect people
[33:33] are not listening.
[33:38] A man named
[33:41] >> Isaiah
[33:41] » Isaiah
[33:42] >> Isaiah died after police did use their
[33:48] » Isaiah died after police did use their
[33:48] >> training
[33:48] » training
[33:48] >> training.
[33:56] I'm autistic.
[33:58] >> Autistic.
[34:00] » Autistic.
[34:00] What happens when I am older?
[34:05] If I am having a really bad day, are
[34:10] they a are the police going to hurt me
[34:14] or help me? If you say that they are
[34:19] going to help me,
[34:21] it it is it's only because of
[34:26] the colors of my skin.
[34:30] My mom taught me that when something
[34:36] when someone is hurt
[34:40] or having a hard time, you are supposed
[34:45] to help them
[34:50] calm down and keep everyone safe.
[34:56] Are you you you're
[35:00] >> not supposed
[35:01] » not supposed
[35:01] >> you're not supposed to
[35:04] » you're not supposed to
[35:04] >> make
[35:06] » make
[35:06] >> things worse.
[35:07] » things worse.
[35:07] >> things worse. Grown-ups tell kids
[35:12] » things worse. Grown-ups tell kids
[35:12] our
[35:13] >> to use our word
[35:13] » to use our word
[35:14] >> to to use our words to not to be
[35:18] » to to use our words to not to be
[35:18] >> patient
[35:18] » patient
[35:18] >> patient and to care about other people.
[35:25] » patient and to care about other people.
[35:25] I think I think
[35:28] >> police
[35:29] » police
[35:29] >> police officers should have to do that
[35:33] » police officers should have to do that
[35:33] too.
[35:35] I do not think police people
[35:40] should
[35:42] treat be treated differently because
[35:46] of the colors
[35:49] of their skin.
[35:52] I do not think people have having a
[35:57] really bad day
[36:00] should be killed. Uh it is not fair that
[36:05] kids have to keep asking their grown
[36:09] keep asking grown-ups to do the right
[36:12] thing.
[36:17] I want East Lantern to be a city where
[36:21] everyone is safe
[36:24] and treated fairly.
[36:27] I want
[36:28] >> 30
[36:30] » 30
[36:30] to listen
[36:31] >> to listen when people say something is
[36:35] » to listen when people say something is
[36:35] wrong. I And I want to
[36:38] >> you
[36:39] » you
[36:39] >> you to be brave enough to fix it. Thank
[36:44] » you to be brave enough to fix it. Thank
[36:44] you.
[36:46] >> Thank you, Nicole Keyway Biber.
[36:49] » Thank you, Nicole Keyway Biber.
[36:49] [applause]
[37:04] Good evening. Um,
[37:07] interesting to see the in the agenda the
[37:11] training update that we're going to be
[37:14] privy to apparently later says things
[37:16] like deescalation, trauma recognition,
[37:19] and mental resilience,
[37:21] ethical policing, building trust,
[37:23] professionalism.
[37:26] I think it was maybe Sunday. I actually
[37:28] had an interaction with the East Lancing
[37:30] Police Department on my suburban street.
[37:33] Very quiet place. Um I look out the
[37:36] window, I see one of their vehicles,
[37:40] three officers across the street from
[37:42] me. There's a black family. Um there's a
[37:45] young man standing and speaking with
[37:47] them. [clears throat] Well, even right
[37:49] now, my heart starts racing.
[37:52] So, I go out and go to get my mail
[37:55] because it's across the street. And I
[37:58] ask my neighbor, "Are you okay?" He
[38:00] says, "Yeah." I said, "You gave them
[38:02] permission to go in your house?" He's
[38:03] like, "Yeah, I'm okay." I was like,
[38:04] "Okay." And I just go across the street
[38:07] checking in on him. And one of the
[38:10] officers says, "Ma'am, we'll come talk
[38:12] to you afterwards." Like, if you want. I
[38:14] was like, "Whatever. Okay." So, I stand
[38:17] and I watch and uh there's a bit more
[38:20] movement and um eventually the young man
[38:23] goes inside and uh they come over to my
[38:26] side of the street and um they say, "Oh,
[38:31] did you have a question about
[38:32] something?" I said, "I just wanted to
[38:34] make sure he was okay."
[38:36] They're like, "Oh, well, they called us
[38:38] in." I was like, "Okay, thanks. I just
[38:40] want to make sure he was fine." That
[38:42] could have been it, right? That was the
[38:44] interaction. I got and we talked a bit.
[38:47] He said, one of the officers says, "Is
[38:49] there a reason you assume maybe things
[38:51] weren't okay?"
[38:53] I was like, "Wow." I was like, "Okay." I
[38:57] mean, I'll bite. I'm not scared to speak
[38:59] up. I was like, "A lifetime of
[39:02] experience." I was like, "I'm a brown
[39:04] person. I grew up in a black
[39:06] neighborhood. I see something like this.
[39:08] I'm going to ask if they're okay."
[39:13] They the officer who by the way is the
[39:16] biggest tactical gear vest can picture
[39:21] ends up saying to me uh saying to me uh
[39:25] well I don't even think of that. I was
[39:27] like well okay well I do and I guess you
[39:30] have the privilege not to.
[39:33] >> He says I'm not hyperfocused on race.
[39:36] » He says I'm not hyperfocused on race.
[39:36] So, who here thinks that's not an
[39:39] implication that I am?
[39:42] >> But of course, when I say that, I'm
[39:44] » But of course, when I say that, I'm
[39:44] like, "Oh, well, I don't think I'm
[39:46] hyperfocused. I was telling you my life
[39:48] experience."
[39:51] And he says, "I wasn't saying you were.
[39:53] I was just talking about me." Oh my
[39:56] gosh.
[39:57] I have This is over and over the way
[40:01] it's framed. The problem is us
[40:05] there. You don't y all don't see color,
[40:07] right? That's supposed to be like the
[40:09] the magic wand that says racism doesn't
[40:12] exist except in your head.
[40:15] So, you see things like trauma
[40:17] recognition.
[40:19] I directly disclose my life experience.
[40:22] His return to me is, "You're
[40:24] hyperfocused on race." Oh, um, no,
[40:26] excuse me. He's not.
[40:29] Building trust and professionalism.
[40:31] Incredibly condescending.
[40:34] geared up with tactical vest does not
[40:36] make me feel safe.
[40:39] So, y'all are the ones sitting in these
[40:41] positions. You can call for a
[40:43] resignation of that police chief and it
[40:45] sounds like you need to do one for the
[40:47] city manager as well.
[40:49] And by the way, limiting people's time
[40:51] to comment. I was kind of proud of East
[40:54] Lancing. I'm like, wow, we get five
[40:56] minutes. I have so many situations in my
[40:58] life where I get just bare bare few
[41:01] minutes to say something that's in this
[41:03] case a life and death matter.
[41:06] When you're limit time, you're
[41:07] undermining the voices of differently a
[41:09] the differently aabled. Did you think
[41:11] about that?
[41:12] >> I've encountered so many people are so
[41:14] » I've encountered so many people are so
[41:14] nervous or not used to public sper
[41:16] experience. Our voices matter deeply to
[41:19] one another. That's why people are
[41:22] probably watching at home. That's why
[41:23] people came here. We want to hear each
[41:25] other. Why don't our voices matter to
[41:27] East Lancing leadership?
[41:30] And and what is it? You're thinking to
[41:34] lead us too.
[41:35] >> 30 seconds remaining.
[41:37] » 30 seconds remaining.
[41:37] You should be listening and thinking
[41:40] this is the most important part of every
[41:42] single meeting because it is.
[41:46] [applause]
[41:47] Thank you, Kayla Gomez.
[41:51] [applause]
[42:02] Hello, my name is Kayla Gomez, resident
[42:04] of East Lancing. Um, I'm up here
[42:07] basically to again ask for the
[42:09] resignation of Jen Brown and
[42:13] Belman. So, everybody else has done a
[42:15] great job. I will let them speak.
[42:17] >> Thank you, Carla Forest Huitt.
[42:30] Good evening. My name is Carla Forest
[42:31] Huitt. Um, I spoke last week about uh
[42:37] how
[42:39] much
[42:41] it is important for us to move forward
[42:43] in a different way. Um, all the voices
[42:46] that shared their opinions today are
[42:48] important. I don't think that we can
[42:51] move forward without trying to involve
[42:54] change. We cannot disregard the things
[42:57] that are said. Silence from leadership
[43:00] is a dismissal. Um
[43:03] using policy as a as a stonewall to
[43:06] prevent voices from being shared is also
[43:09] problematic. I think that um
[43:13] the employee who came forward and shared
[43:16] her story should be listened to and this
[43:18] shouldn't be the platform where it is
[43:20] shared. It is really really horrendous
[43:23] that someone who had this experience has
[43:25] to come publicly and share this in an
[43:28] open forum. In addition to that, my son
[43:31] is here today as a person that I care
[43:34] deeply about and there are other
[43:36] mothers. Rashidita shared her story
[43:39] about being a parent and I think that as
[43:43] a small community, we have the ability
[43:46] to make changes that are impactful. We
[43:49] can make it where East Lancing can be a
[43:51] place where when you come, you know, the
[43:54] police offer is going to tell you good
[43:55] morning and wish you a good day. not
[43:57] dress you down,
[43:58] >> right? And it is so appalling to me that
[44:03] » right? And it is so appalling to me that
[44:04] we cannot
[44:06] we we hide behind this idea that what
[44:09] there's potential danger. But by putting
[44:13] officers in this space, you're inviting
[44:15] that vibration. I do not understand why
[44:18] this is the move that you make.
[44:20] All of you are live have lived
[44:22] experience and this has never happened
[44:25] in this space since we've been doing
[44:28] this in the Hannah community center and
[44:29] I have worked here and this is something
[44:32] that I do not think will happen unless
[44:34] you invite that and I also think that
[44:36] the training that our police officers
[44:38] have on a global scale and on a national
[44:40] scale needs to change because this is
[44:42] not something that
[44:45] helps us respond to the needs of our
[44:48] community. Police officers are supposed
[44:50] to protect and serve, not dominate
[44:54] [clears throat] and kill.
[44:56] And so with that said,
[45:00] what are you going to do going forward?
[45:02] I mean, so many voices have been shared,
[45:05] recorded, things have been said, things
[45:07] have been put in the news. There is a
[45:09] history. There are things that have been
[45:11] done before this council that have
[45:12] worked. Why are we not looking to to
[45:15] those changes? Why aren't the rep why
[45:17] isn't there representation in the city
[45:19] that represents the diversity of our
[45:21] community? Why when we put people in
[45:24] leadership positions, they do not
[45:26] represent our community? This is why we
[45:28] continue to have the same decisions.
[45:30] This is why a lot of the work that I try
[45:32] to do to create spaces of belonging has
[45:36] been rolled back when I left. And I I'm
[45:38] really really tired of of trying to hope
[45:43] that you do better. I think going
[45:46] forward, the weeks, the days, the
[45:49] months, every decision that you make
[45:50] going forward should be a thing to do
[45:52] better to include voices. Even if you
[45:56] don't like what is being said, listen
[45:58] and think about how it might be
[46:00] something useful, impactful. If you
[46:02] don't have children, talk to people who
[46:04] have children and experiencees
[46:07] that are are meaningful. Okay? that it
[46:10] is it is sheer terror a mother feels
[46:14] when she lets her child go into the
[46:16] world knowing that when they grow up the
[46:20] world will start seeing them differently
[46:22] because of their skin color and I've
[46:25] seen it happen when when Isaiah was
[46:28] small he used to be adorable and then
[46:31] just by by association he becomes a
[46:35] person of interest and he's still young
[46:38] and I'm not making it up. It is not in
[46:41] my imagination. And so, as others have
[46:45] said, we need to count hold our police
[46:48] officers accountable. When people do
[46:49] wrong, they should be held accountable.
[46:51] It should not just only be for some.
[46:54] Okay? It should be for everyone.
[46:56] Everybody should be held accountable for
[46:58] when they do wrong. And I think that
[47:01] >> 30 seconds remaining.
[47:03] » 30 seconds remaining.
[47:03] >> Um, I'm really disappointed. I'm very
[47:06] » Um, I'm really disappointed. I'm very
[47:06] disappointed. I'm so disappointed it
[47:09] hurts.
[47:12] >> Thank you, Josh Huitt. [applause]
[47:26] Um, hello everyone. Um, I really have no
[47:28] idea what I'm going to say.
[47:30] I feel like I'm trapped in this loop
[47:32] coming here. Um, it's it's it's tough.
[47:35] But either way, um, last week, um,
[47:38] during commissioner comment, Mark
[47:39] Meadows, I think he addressed something
[47:40] Taj Mika said. And she said that pretty
[47:43] much if you saw the video footage,
[47:45] chances are most of us would not have
[47:46] been here. Mark Meadows said he doesn't
[47:48] think that's true. It's interesting that
[47:49] you guys address stuff when you choose
[47:51] to address stuff and important stuff you
[47:53] guys just choose not to address. I want
[47:54] to ask you, Mark Meadows, and I hope you
[47:56] can can answer this question when you
[47:58] when you have your commission to
[47:59] comment. You said you you pretty much
[48:02] said that um, what James Mccuris Jr.
[48:04] from the NAACP said in terms of the
[48:07] officer lunging um Isaiah Kirby lunging
[48:10] at the officer, you said what he said
[48:11] was contradictory. You said that he
[48:14] lunged at the officer. I showed the
[48:16] video to so many people and I watch it
[48:17] myself. I even showed it to a police
[48:19] officer. I have a cousin who's a police
[48:20] officer in New York. I I was like, man,
[48:22] I called him. I was like, objectively,
[48:23] I'm not going to tell you what I think.
[48:24] I want you to look at this this video
[48:26] footage objectively. Call me back and
[48:27] tell me what you think. I asked him, did
[48:30] the police officer lunch? He gave me a
[48:32] lot of feedback about a lot of things
[48:33] that were handled in his opinion, not
[48:35] correctly, but some things that were
[48:36] handled correctly as well. Just to be
[48:37] honest with you guys, I asked him
[48:39] Swissily, did the police officer lunge
[48:41] at did Isaiah Kirby lunge at a police
[48:43] officer? And he said no. Um, so my
[48:45] question to you, Mark Meadows, is I'm
[48:46] pretty sure that you saw the video
[48:48] footage that came out Friday. Just
[48:49] address that for me. Like if if if you
[48:51] were wrong, just admit that you were
[48:52] wrong. Um, that's all I'm asking. Um,
[48:55] Robert Belman, I hate to go back on
[48:57] this, but the reason we're in this
[48:58] position is is honestly because of you
[49:00] and and the decisions that you made in
[49:02] terms of hiring Jen Brown. I mentioned
[49:04] this in public comment months ago, and
[49:06] again, I had a sit down with you and I
[49:08] asked you not to hire Jen Brown. So,
[49:10] again, a lot of this stuff is seeming to
[49:12] be reactive, but again, it's it's it's
[49:13] not reactive. Again, we're just
[49:15] frustrated and we've been asking, we've
[49:16] been asking, we've been asking and you
[49:18] guys are just not listening. when a lot
[49:21] of community members came showed up to
[49:23] for the meet and greet for the police
[49:25] officers that were were running for the
[49:26] police chief position. Again, I said
[49:29] this in public comment. You you made the
[49:30] whole thing seem as if we had some sort
[49:32] of our our input would be valued, but
[49:35] again, it was just a complete joke. You
[49:37] didn't listen to us at all. Um so again,
[49:39] this is why we're we're in this
[49:40] position. Um Kerry Singh, you might
[49:43] consider yourself white. I I don't know
[49:44] if you are. You have a husband who's not
[49:46] white. Clearly, you have a son who is
[49:48] clearly obviously not white. I just hope
[49:51] you guys don't wait until this happens
[49:52] to your own kids that you start taking
[49:54] action. Please, you guys stand behind
[49:57] these institutions and all this talk
[49:58] about lawsuits and all this BS. What
[50:01] happened to those guys downtown? It
[50:02] never had to get to a lawsuit. You guys
[50:04] should have told Jen Brown, "Hey, let's
[50:05] just meet together and talk and we can
[50:06] make this right." So, don't say just
[50:08] because it's a lawsuit now you can't say
[50:10] anything again. Don't wait till it
[50:11] happens to you to say something and do
[50:14] something. Um, Chuck, I don't have
[50:16] anything to say to you. Um, Eric Alman,
[50:20] Jen Brown said that minorities come to
[50:22] East Lancing to commit crimes.
[50:24] The criminals I'm seeing actually also
[50:27] came from outside of East Lancing.
[50:29] Robert Belman doesn't live. He lives in
[50:30] Sageno. I think Kel said like 85% of the
[50:33] police officers are are from outside of
[50:35] East Lancing. You're from Canada. you
[50:37] came to United States to do the things
[50:40] that you do when you retire from MSU and
[50:42] you and and you decide to you and your
[50:44] wife Kathy Swedllo and you guys decide
[50:46] to retire, you're probably going to run
[50:47] back to Canada and leave the mess for a
[50:49] lot of people to clean up. That's not
[50:50] cool at all. You have no kids here. You
[50:53] have nothing that that's keeping you
[50:54] here and making you want to do the right
[50:56] thing. You're going to run back to
[50:57] Canada and that's it. You're gone. We
[50:59] don't need we don't hear from you
[51:00] anymore. You don't come here. You don't
[51:03] come to somebody else's country to do
[51:05] the things that you're doing. Again, I
[51:07] wonder who the criminals are here.
[51:09] Robert Bellman and you, Mark Meadows. My
[51:13] wife used to work for the city. She's
[51:15] had interactions with you before. And I
[51:18] was to say, you know, Carla, Mark seems
[51:20] to me like like a decent guy. And
[51:24] I I keep having some sort of level of
[51:26] hope in you and Carrie Singh to do the
[51:29] right thing.
[51:31] I've been saying this for months. I've
[51:33] been asking you guys for months to do
[51:34] the right thing. Steve Wheelen, I my
[51:37] wife has had interaction with you as
[51:39] well as a police officer.
[51:41] I don't know much about you and that's
[51:42] why I've never said anything. I've never
[51:44] come up here and said anything bad about
[51:46] you because I don't know much about you.
[51:48] We need three people. I asked for one,
[51:50] but I realize one is not going to make a
[51:52] lot of change in terms of the stuff that
[51:53] we're trying to do in terms of policing
[51:54] and just racial justice in East Lancing.
[51:56] I'm asking for three of you guys. Please
[51:58] do the right thing. Steve Wheelen, Mark
[52:01] Meadows, Kerry Singh, please just again
[52:04] I've been asking for months. Please do
[52:06] the right thing. Eric Alman, I shook
[52:09] your hand last week. Um, and I thought
[52:11] like after all these people gave public
[52:13] comments about like not limiting public
[52:15] comment to three minutes that you would
[52:16] do the right thing. And again, you just
[52:18] continue to disappoint. Um, yeah, that's
[52:21] all I got to say. Y'all have a good
[52:23] night. All right.
[52:23] >> Thank you, Amanda Morgan.
[52:26] » Thank you, Amanda Morgan.
[52:26] [applause]
[52:30] Hello. Thank you. I'm going to take a
[52:32] sip real quick.
[52:36] I am here today as a guest. Um, I stuck
[52:40] around this town because after I went to
[52:42] MSU and I really liked it. I I liked
[52:45] this culture and this community. I felt
[52:46] like we had a mix of people and and and
[52:49] a a middle class that was progressive.
[52:53] I'm here today to kind of address one
[52:56] simple thing. Bureaucracy
[52:59] versus community and leadership.
[53:04] You can't be a leader in bureaucracy.
[53:07] You're a rules and order people. We're
[53:09] seeing that here today. When you use
[53:11] rules and order to tell what the
[53:13] community what to do, you galvanize a
[53:17] movement. Congratulations.
[53:20] You've galvanized a movement.
[53:22] You know, the best way to um reduce
[53:25] public comment is to listen.
[53:30] You know, pepper spray is not a
[53:32] deescalation tool. A vigil is.
[53:38] And just because we have rule and order
[53:40] that silos information up and down a
[53:43] chain of command,
[53:45] um there was no nothing that stopped you
[53:48] from holding a vigil.
[53:51] Mayor,
[53:54] people are here today because they're
[53:56] challenging you to grow,
[53:58] to take the community as a whole, not
[54:01] just be a bureaucrat that um uh takes
[54:04] care of the people who put money in your
[54:06] pocket,
[54:08] not just take care of white culture and
[54:10] middle class and academia.
[54:14] I'm a white person telling on myself
[54:16] because I care about you all.
[54:19] And you're kind of doing it wrong.
[54:20] You're do you're doubling down on power
[54:22] and control, not an act of listening in
[54:25] community.
[54:27] In June uh in February 2020, George
[54:30] Floyd lost his life to a police officer.
[54:34] In June 2020, I talked to my uh business
[54:38] that I work for that's public mental
[54:40] health and I said, "There's a problem
[54:43] coming and I'm worried."
[54:46] And in that letter, I described exactly
[54:49] what I was afraid of.
[54:54] [sighs]
[54:56] I didn't tell the bureaucrats in my
[54:59] business that stuff because I wanted to
[55:01] be a good old tushy. Good tush. I'm
[55:03] sorry. A good, you know what I mean? I
[55:07] told them because I cared about the
[55:10] people in the system that were doing the
[55:12] jobs that things were coming and I was
[55:14] using my foresight to try to prepare us.
[55:21] I am here today to continue to advocate
[55:24] that you all strip off some cultural
[55:26] privilege that you received and the
[55:29] higher up you go with power the more
[55:31] people kiss your butt. and bureaucracy.
[55:35] Praise goes uphill and [ __ ] rolls
[55:38] downhill. Excuse my language.
[55:42] I will speak to you today, Chuck. I see
[55:44] you. It took a lot of um acclimating to
[55:50] white culture to be where you're at.
[55:54] Sometimes we have to completely shut off
[55:56] our our community and what it's going
[55:59] through to survive white culture. and
[56:02] your community today is just asking you
[56:04] to be brave enough to risk your
[56:07] whiteness.
[56:12] Um, they will have your back if you call
[56:17] this BS out. Same for you. Your
[56:20] husband's a man of color. You're a white
[56:22] woman. And until you do the work, you
[56:24] can be a racist, too.
[56:29] Again, I go back to I stuck around this
[56:32] area and community because I really like
[56:35] this space and place and people. It's an
[56:37] intersection of of
[56:40] strength and power.
[56:43] I'm really sad and I'm not surprised
[56:46] that white culture in MSU and East
[56:48] Lancing are doing the bureaucrat way.
[56:51] Rule and order. And by the way, if this
[56:54] is the advice of your city manager,
[56:57] he's really doing you wrong.
[57:01] >> You have 30 seconds.
[57:02] » You have 30 seconds.
[57:02] >> Before the next meeting, I hope you all
[57:06] » Before the next meeting, I hope you all
[57:06] set up a vigil. People may not show up
[57:08] because they don't trust you or set up a
[57:11] uh I don't know something. At this
[57:13] point, you got to step down and listen
[57:15] to people.
[57:17] I appreciate your time.
[57:20] >> Thank you. Uh, [applause]
[57:24] » Thank you. Uh, [applause]
[57:24] Yanka Marillo.
[57:36] Good evening. I am a concerned Lansancy
[57:39] neighbor and a mother of a mixed Afro
[57:41] Latino who's 5 years old. I used to live
[57:44] in East Lancing as well. I stand before
[57:47] you tonight carrying grief, anger, and
[57:50] urgency after the killing of Isaiah, a
[57:53] young black community member that got
[57:55] shot by police. Too often, these moments
[57:58] are reduced to headlines, statistics,
[58:02] investigations, or public relations
[58:05] statements.
[58:06] Our community deserves better.
[58:09] We deserve transparency, accountability,
[58:12] and action, not silence, delay, or
[58:15] defensiveness.
[58:16] We deserve systems that protect life
[58:19] while acknowledging race and not
[58:22] regardless of, but acknowledging race,
[58:26] neighborhood, age, or background.
[58:29] Acknowledge treatment differs based on
[58:31] race, ethnicity, and skin color. That's
[58:33] a good start.
[58:35] And we deserve leaders willing to
[58:37] confront the reality that black and
[58:39] brown community members continue to
[58:41] experience policing differently and more
[58:44] dangerously than others.
[58:46] Tonight, I ask the council to do more.
[58:49] Invest in community-based safety and
[58:52] crisis response strategies.
[58:54] Community-ledd. Let your community tell
[58:57] you they know the best way to do things
[59:01] for community by community. strengthen
[59:03] accountability measures and civilian
[59:05] oversight. Commit to ongoing dialogue
[59:08] with impacted families and communities,
[59:11] not only in moments of tra tragedy, but
[59:14] consistently.
[59:16] This is not a conversation about anti-
[59:19] police or whatever we want to call it.
[59:23] This is a conversation about
[59:26] pro-accountability
[59:27] and pro-humity. We've lost humanity.
[59:32] We're losing humans, literally.
[59:35] For many black communities, um, black
[59:40] community members, incidents like this
[59:42] reopen generations of pain and fear.
[59:45] Young people are watching closely.
[59:47] They are asking whether their lives are
[59:50] truly valued and whether those in power
[59:52] will protect them or protect systems
[59:54] from scrutiny. Your response matters. We
[59:59] cannot build trust without truth. We
[1:00:01] cannot build safety without justice. And
[1:00:04] we cannot ask communities to heal while
[1:00:07] avoiding the changes necessary to
[1:00:09] prevent future harm.
[1:00:12] >> Thank you, Abby Tiki.
[1:00:15] » Thank you, Abby Tiki.
[1:00:15] [applause]
[1:00:20] Right. I currently serve on the East
[1:00:22] [clears throat] Lancing School Board,
[1:00:23] but my comments today are my own. Mayor
[1:00:25] Altman, I urge you to reject the idea
[1:00:28] that we should simply let the process
[1:00:30] play out. Delay is not neutral. Delay
[1:00:32] has consequences. And you were not
[1:00:34] elected to observe problems. You were
[1:00:37] elected to respond to them. And I know
[1:00:39] you're capable of acting quickly when
[1:00:40] you choose to because when a drunk
[1:00:42] driver destroyed my elderly white
[1:00:43] neighbor's mailbox, you were there to
[1:00:45] check in on her before I even made my
[1:00:47] morning cup of coffee. So, I have to
[1:00:49] ask, where is that same urgency now? Why
[1:00:52] does a mailbox seem to inspire faster
[1:00:54] action than the lives of young black
[1:00:56] men?
[1:00:58] [applause]
[1:00:59] Waiting for another procedural step pro
[1:01:02] protects bureaucracy, but it does not
[1:01:03] protect public the public. Strong
[1:01:06] leadership is politically inconvenient,
[1:01:08] and I understand the attorneys and city
[1:01:10] manager do not want you to speak out or
[1:01:12] take action, but you were not elected to
[1:01:14] protect lawyers, procedure, or liability
[1:01:16] management. You were elected to make You
[1:01:19] were not elected to make the city
[1:01:20] manager's job easier or give a failing
[1:01:22] chief of police endless opportunities to
[1:01:24] demonstrate that she understands the
[1:01:26] population she is serving and is capable
[1:01:28] of protecting them. Your job is to make
[1:01:30] sure they are doing their jobs. History
[1:01:34] will not remember who followed
[1:01:35] procedure.
[1:01:37] I support the demands that will be put
[1:01:38] forward by the Citizens for Justice
[1:01:40] group later tonight and I ask that you
[1:01:42] act on them immediately. And I also
[1:01:45] serve as chair of the Lancing Regional
[1:01:47] Smart Zone. And I am charged by the city
[1:01:49] of East Lancing to promote tech
[1:01:50] entrepreneurship and uh stem the flow of
[1:01:53] brain drain out of this area from MSU.
[1:01:55] And I can't do that with the reputation
[1:01:57] that we're building here in the city
[1:01:59] right now.
[1:02:01] I am also a crisis advocate for the MSU
[1:02:04] Center for Survivors. I believe
[1:02:07] survivors. I was also once party to a
[1:02:10] lawsuit against a municipality for
[1:02:12] gender-based pay discrimination
[1:02:17] and I met you councelor council member
[1:02:19] Singh at a gathering when you were
[1:02:21] campaigning at Moren McCabe P house and
[1:02:25] I asked you what you were going to do
[1:02:28] when this exact thing happened because
[1:02:31] we knew it was going to and I think you
[1:02:33] said something about allowing more
[1:02:36] opportunity for city employees to be
[1:02:38] able to air their grievances or
[1:02:40] something. And was not a great answer,
[1:02:41] but I thought that's okay. She's on the
[1:02:42] campaign trail. Probably nobody's asked
[1:02:44] her that yet. Hopefully, she'll think
[1:02:45] about it now. Is that what this was? I
[1:02:49] know Miss Hernandez. She's a friend of
[1:02:51] mine.
[1:02:54] Please, all of you do better.
[1:02:58] >> Thank you, Tashmika Toro.
[1:03:01] » Thank you, Tashmika Toro.
[1:03:01] [applause]
[1:03:04] » Hello. I am trying to gather myself
[1:03:08] because I also know Erica. She is a
[1:03:11] former employee of mine and I am so full
[1:03:14] of rage.
[1:03:17] I'm not sure that you are aware of what
[1:03:19] just happened.
[1:03:21] Um I'm a survivor of child sexual abuse.
[1:03:23] Um most of my body of work is related to
[1:03:26] sexual violence. Most of my body of work
[1:03:28] is related to stopping people from being
[1:03:30] violent in intimate ways.
[1:03:33] The patterns of violence that have to do
[1:03:36] with power and control are happening
[1:03:38] here.
[1:03:40] When survivors speak, you silence them.
[1:03:42] You shorten the time that they can
[1:03:44] speak. When people show up for them,
[1:03:47] you close off half the room.
[1:03:51] When they tell you you protect the city,
[1:03:53] you do not protect the person. The only
[1:03:56] reason for any of you to sit here and
[1:03:59] act like due process matters is because
[1:04:00] you are protecting this [ __ ] city
[1:04:02] from when they win that lawsuit. Because
[1:04:04] then you will really be broke.
[1:04:08] >> The reason why you are okay with what
[1:04:11] » The reason why you are okay with what
[1:04:11] has happened to the black people in this
[1:04:13] community is because you are operating
[1:04:15] on power and control. You have allowed
[1:04:17] this city to operate on the same
[1:04:20] dynamics that allow sexual violence to
[1:04:22] happen in the first place. You are
[1:04:24] sitting in a dis right here with a
[1:04:27] perpetrator of sexual violence. You have
[1:04:30] enabled police violence against your
[1:04:32] against your own community that shows up
[1:04:35] every day and you act like you're being
[1:04:38] victimized by it. You act like this is
[1:04:40] the worst possible thing that could
[1:04:42] happen that you have all these people
[1:04:43] you have to listen to. Do you know how
[1:04:44] much love and faith it requires for
[1:04:47] people with generational trauma to get
[1:04:50] up and come here and talk to you every
[1:04:52] week as if our humanity is in question?
[1:04:55] There are people here who won't speak to
[1:04:57] you because their nervous systems can't
[1:04:59] handle it.
[1:05:01] >> And you should [ __ ] leave.
[1:05:05] » And you should [ __ ] leave.
[1:05:05] [applause]
[1:05:10] » We are not waiting for a process. If you
[1:05:13] wanted to do something, you could. If
[1:05:15] you wanted to choose the people over the
[1:05:18] city's budget and a the risk of what a
[1:05:20] lawsuit means, you could. If you wanted
[1:05:24] to believe Erica when she came the first
[1:05:26] time, you [ __ ] could have done it.
[1:05:30] You are victimizing this community by
[1:05:33] making us wait. And I hope you
[1:05:35] understand that. That you are in the
[1:05:38] lineage of white supremacy that didn't
[1:05:40] allow black people to even move here in
[1:05:41] the first place. in 1968 when the HRC
[1:05:44] was created.
[1:05:47] [applause]
[1:05:49] » You ask us to come, you say we're
[1:05:52] listening and nothing happens. We ask
[1:05:54] you questions, you say, "I don't know. I
[1:05:56] need your help."
[1:05:59] What more could we tell you? What more
[1:06:02] policy proposals could we bring you?
[1:06:04] What more statistics could we bring you?
[1:06:08] If you would like the info, if you'd
[1:06:09] like to, my name is Taj Miko. can find
[1:06:12] me. There is literally no one else with
[1:06:13] this name. But if you would like the
[1:06:14] information about how child sexual abuse
[1:06:16] and perpetration of violence and the
[1:06:18] dynamics come together to create exactly
[1:06:20] the [ __ ] dynamic we're experiencing
[1:06:22] right now, let me know.
[1:06:25] I have a digital archive that I would
[1:06:26] love to send you. This is unacceptable.
[1:06:31] It is unacceptable that this is what you
[1:06:33] require of people who are being
[1:06:34] oppressed by the police in this
[1:06:35] community.
[1:06:37] When you go back in that room and you
[1:06:40] talk,
[1:06:42] you should not, first of all, be sharing
[1:06:43] the table with someone who sexually
[1:06:45] harassed one of your one of your
[1:06:47] employees.
[1:06:49] >> First of all, second of all, you can do
[1:06:52] » First of all, second of all, you can do
[1:06:52] things now. You can fire Jen Brown
[1:06:54] today.
[1:06:56] >> You can fire this sexual predator right
[1:06:58] » You can fire this sexual predator right
[1:06:58] now and you can offer a [ __ ] policy
[1:07:01] that actually changes the way that the
[1:07:03] police interact with people of color in
[1:07:04] this community because THEY ARE DYING.
[1:07:07] BECAUSE A CHILD SAT ON THE FLOOR CUTTING
[1:07:10] HIS OWN [ __ ] THROAT AND THEY SHOT him
[1:07:13] more than 10 times
[1:07:16] and we all watched it and you know just
[1:07:18] like [ __ ] sexual violence and the
[1:07:20] Epstein files you all want to tell us
[1:07:22] what we saw like I don't have eyes in my
[1:07:25] head like this is not the first time or
[1:07:27] like this is the first time we've ever
[1:07:29] seen police shoot black people
[1:07:32] there was no lunging there was a child a
[1:07:35] human being who is hurting themselves
[1:07:37] And then they performed medical aid.
[1:07:40] >> Hey bro, we want to help you.
[1:07:43] » Hey bro, we want to help you.
[1:07:43] >> Just put the knife down.
[1:07:45] » Just put the knife down.
[1:07:45] >> Oh, get the chest seals. You don't even
[1:07:47] » Oh, get the chest seals. You don't even
[1:07:48] roll them over. You zip tie his hands
[1:07:51] and leave him on the ground to die.
[1:07:55] It is unacceptable. You should be
[1:07:57] ashamed of yourself. If you are not
[1:07:58] ashamed, then you should be embarrassed.
[1:08:01] It's disgusting.
[1:08:04] >> Thank you. Max Millian Muckleberry.
[1:08:09] » Thank you. Max Millian Muckleberry.
[1:08:09] [applause]
[1:08:14] Max Millian Muckleberry.
[1:08:21] [clears throat]
[1:08:35] Hello. Uh, so I'm actually My name is
[1:08:38] Max Huckleberry. I'm from Lancing.
[1:08:41] And I did work all day, but then I drove
[1:08:44] myself here to do this because that's
[1:08:45] how much I care because I'm horrified.
[1:08:49] You know, like when people when I first
[1:08:51] heard about this happening, I was like,
[1:08:52] "Oh, no."
[1:08:54] Um, it didn't happen again, did it?
[1:08:57] Right. I mean, you know, the thing that
[1:08:59] cops do where they like hurt people and
[1:09:02] they didn't need to that they do all the
[1:09:03] time. You know, this isn't even the
[1:09:05] first person in proximity to me through
[1:09:07] community that has been killed by the
[1:09:09] police this year that I know. Like, this
[1:09:12] is like crazy. This happened 10 minutes
[1:09:14] from where I sleep at night.
[1:09:17] It keeps me up, honestly. Like [snorts]
[1:09:20] I like to usually try to take all the
[1:09:23] information available to me before I try
[1:09:26] to write something to say at a council,
[1:09:28] but
[1:09:30] I could only watch one body cam angle
[1:09:33] one time
[1:09:35] because it was so terrible. I will never
[1:09:38] unsee that ever. I hoped if you watched
[1:09:41] it, you will never forget it either
[1:09:44] because what I saw was,
[1:09:48] you know, we don't know what happened
[1:09:49] before that, but you know, he's a
[1:09:51] suspect and obviously that's he
[1:09:53] shouldn't have done those things if he
[1:09:54] did. I don't think anyone's arguing
[1:09:56] about that. But it didn't even look like
[1:09:59] he was running at the police. He was
[1:10:01] just running. He did something terrible
[1:10:03] and he was running away from it. That's
[1:10:05] what it looked like. And then they shot
[1:10:08] him multiple times. He fell on the
[1:10:10] ground, started hurting himself with his
[1:10:12] own knife, and then they shot him more.
[1:10:17] How is that okay?
[1:10:22] Like, and then they use a riot shield to
[1:10:27] pin his hands down after shooting him
[1:10:29] over a dozen times
[1:10:31] just to grab the knife and handcuff him
[1:10:33] like he's still a threat somehow
[1:10:36] >> as he's bleeding out.
[1:10:40] It's incontable.
[1:10:43] Those people should be fired. And
[1:10:46] honestly, if you ask me, I'm not I don't
[1:10:48] know much about the law, but like at
[1:10:50] least manslaughter charges. Like, oh my
[1:10:52] god.
[1:10:53] >> Yeah.
[1:10:54] » Yeah.
[1:10:54] >> Maybe they didn't mean to kill him, but
[1:10:56] » Maybe they didn't mean to kill him, but
[1:10:56] they [clears throat] did.
[1:11:00] And just because someone commits a crime
[1:11:02] or may have committed a crime doesn't
[1:11:04] mean they should be murdered. Right.
[1:11:07] >> And if you don't all take a stand
[1:11:09] » And if you don't all take a stand
[1:11:09] against this, you will be complicit in
[1:11:11] an execution without due process.
[1:11:17] » And I don't even know what's going on
[1:11:19] with this guy. It sounds really bad.
[1:11:23] >> Uh Jennifer Brown should resign in
[1:11:25] » Uh Jennifer Brown should resign in
[1:11:25] disgrace. I mean, I don't know how she's
[1:11:29] still here, how she got hired in the
[1:11:30] first place. On God.
[1:11:34] Um,
[1:11:36] yeah. But this, you know, this has been
[1:11:37] keeping me up at night and I I hope it
[1:11:40] keeps you guys up at night, too.
[1:11:44] Thank you, Virginia Caldwell.
[1:11:57] [snorts]
[1:12:03] » [clears throat]
[1:12:13] » So, um, this is the first time I'm
[1:12:15] coming to the council to speak and I'm
[1:12:16] just really hoping that we're all not
[1:12:17] wasting our time.
[1:12:20] I see a lot of poker faces
[1:12:23] >> and I'm hoping that behind these poker
[1:12:25] » and I'm hoping that behind these poker
[1:12:25] faces are hearts
[1:12:29] » that are receiving
[1:12:31] what a community is saying.
[1:12:36] I understand that we can only do the
[1:12:38] best that we can with the information
[1:12:39] that we have at the time, but it seems
[1:12:42] like there's like a master's degree of
[1:12:45] information coming into you right now.
[1:12:57] I can't imagine what it's like to be in
[1:12:59] your shoes,
[1:13:01] but I'd like to share with you what it's
[1:13:03] like to be in mine.
[1:13:05] I have three children, two of them being
[1:13:07] boys.
[1:13:09] We're Chicagoans. I came up here to MSU
[1:13:12] for college. We stayed. I stayed.
[1:13:17] 24 of my 28 years as an adult have been
[1:13:20] in East Lancing.
[1:13:23] The four years we were in Chicago when
[1:13:25] we had our two sons, Laquan McDonald in
[1:13:28] 2014 was gunned down by the police.
[1:13:32] He had a knife in his hand. He was also
[1:13:35] going through mental health issues.
[1:13:38] He walked away from the police officer
[1:13:40] that was demanding that he drop the
[1:13:41] knife.
[1:13:43] The police officer said that Laquan
[1:13:44] lunged at him.
[1:13:46] and then unloaded his clip. He was shot
[1:13:49] 17 times. I think it was only because of
[1:13:52] the body cam footage that we really
[1:13:53] found out the truth that he was just
[1:13:56] shot.
[1:13:59] After that happened, I decided we were
[1:14:02] moving back to East Lancing because I
[1:14:05] wanted to be in a small community.
[1:14:08] I didn't want my children to have to
[1:14:11] face the aggression
[1:14:15] that I saw happening.
[1:14:19] Here we are
[1:14:21] 12 years later.
[1:14:25] Do you know what it's like to be a mom
[1:14:27] and have to sit at the table and
[1:14:29] rehearse what to do if they ever get
[1:14:33] pulled over by a police for a traffic
[1:14:36] stop?
[1:14:38] Do you know how much time I've wasted?
[1:14:40] It's not a waste because I want my kids
[1:14:42] to come home.
[1:14:44] I have to explain to them that you have
[1:14:46] to be calm so you don't trigger the cop.
[1:14:50] You have to remain calmer in this
[1:14:53] situation so they don't think you're
[1:14:56] aggressive. Because you know, cultural
[1:14:58] competency says that we all communicate
[1:15:00] differently.
[1:15:02] And so some cultures when they're
[1:15:04] passionate,
[1:15:06] they speak louder, but that's
[1:15:08] interpreted as aggression.
[1:15:13] Have you had that conversation with your
[1:15:15] kids?
[1:15:17] Have you sat at the dinner table and
[1:15:19] wasted time talking about how to engage
[1:15:21] with the police and not to over
[1:15:25] advocate for yourself so that you're not
[1:15:29] looked upon as a threat?
[1:15:33] right now. I'm passionate.
[1:15:39] I looked into how many non-lethal
[1:15:42] options
[1:15:43] there were
[1:15:46] that could be used. And I know y'all got
[1:15:48] the budget for it cuz I pay taxes.
[1:15:52] >> As a homeowner in the community, I pay
[1:15:54] » As a homeowner in the community, I pay
[1:15:54] taxes. And I am demanding change for my
[1:15:59] pre-teens.
[1:16:01] who will be driving soon.
[1:16:06] I don't need anyone
[1:16:08] not understanding how to deescalate.
[1:16:11] There's CPI training. I've worked in
[1:16:14] mental health. Maybe these young
[1:16:17] officers need to go to a behavioral
[1:16:20] health unit and understand what it looks
[1:16:22] like when someone is having a mental
[1:16:24] health crisis so that they can be better
[1:16:27] on their feet to an analyze the
[1:16:29] situation.
[1:16:31] None of this is okay.
[1:16:34] And I guess I came here because I just
[1:16:35] wanted to make a comment. But then after
[1:16:37] hearing the comments and looking at the
[1:16:39] responses, I'm asking where are the
[1:16:42] hearts in the room?
[1:16:45] 30 seconds remaining. We're out of
[1:16:47] hearts.
[1:16:49] There doesn't need to be a wall here.
[1:16:51] We're a community and we need to solve
[1:16:53] this. I don't care what any other city's
[1:16:55] doing. I don't care what any other state
[1:16:57] is doing. Change happens here because
[1:17:00] people want change. Change can happen
[1:17:04] instantly.
[1:17:07] Instantly today, right now, change can
[1:17:10] happen. We can make decisions, but walls
[1:17:12] have to come down and hearts need to
[1:17:14] come out and we need to see everyone
[1:17:16] else's struggle.
[1:17:18] Thank you for your comments. Your time
[1:17:20] has expired.
[1:17:23] Uh, Cadia Ericson.
[1:17:41] Hello everybody. Um, as you said, my
[1:17:44] name is Cadia Ericson and I hold many
[1:17:47] titles, but I'm coming to you today as
[1:17:50] just a citizen. Um,
[1:17:54] I've been thinking about what it is I
[1:17:56] would say. And um, as I'm listening to
[1:17:59] everybody talk about Isaiah, it made me
[1:18:02] think a lot about the students I had
[1:18:04] from MSU this year. um young minority
[1:18:08] students um undergraduates who were
[1:18:12] juniors and seniors. And um
[1:18:18] the day after Isaiah Kirby was murdered
[1:18:22] was a very quiet day in my office. The
[1:18:26] students who were normally laughing and
[1:18:29] so joyful and excited for life were very
[1:18:33] quiet,
[1:18:35] very upset, very depressed. And as the
[1:18:39] reporting came out and I listened to
[1:18:42] people describe Isaiah as intelligent
[1:18:45] and humorous, somebody who was gentle
[1:18:48] and kind, I thought of how that's
[1:18:52] exactly how I would describe my students
[1:18:55] that I get to spend so much precious
[1:18:57] time with. And
[1:19:00] I watched
[1:19:02] the murder of Isaiah too many times um
[1:19:06] because statements had to be written.
[1:19:09] And so I unfortunately had to continue
[1:19:13] watching and see all of the camera
[1:19:16] angles and watching his distress,
[1:19:21] hearing his distress as he brings a
[1:19:24] knife to his own throat. And then to see
[1:19:26] that the police officer's response is to
[1:19:29] shoot him at least three more times
[1:19:34] was a lot. Um I unfortunately in my very
[1:19:38] short life have witnessed a lot of black
[1:19:41] trauma, a lot of black bodies murdered
[1:19:45] um at the hands of police. Unfortunately
[1:19:47] I have had to give comment like this
[1:19:49] before. Maybe not necessarily here.
[1:19:54] Um,
[1:19:55] and I also think about how
[1:19:58] not too long ago and for several months
[1:20:01] in a row, every week that I could make
[1:20:04] it here, I was asking you to consider
[1:20:07] humanity just like all of they are for
[1:20:10] the homeless in the community because
[1:20:13] for far too long you considered how you
[1:20:15] could treat them as inhumanely as
[1:20:17] possible and get away with it.
[1:20:20] And those two things are connected.
[1:20:23] They very much are connected. Your
[1:20:26] willingness to be cruel to the
[1:20:28] vulnerable, if you can codify it in the
[1:20:31] law, is upsetting,
[1:20:34] very deeply upsetting. And then here we
[1:20:37] are in this situation which was
[1:20:40] predictable when you consider how
[1:20:42] welcome week went last year, how all of
[1:20:45] that unfolded, how it continues to
[1:20:48] unfold and we are here today and now
[1:20:51] someone is dead.
[1:20:54] Isaiah was supposed to graduate this
[1:20:58] year.
[1:20:59] Isaiah had plans for what he would do
[1:21:03] after he left MSU. he wanted to go down
[1:21:05] to Texas
[1:21:07] and continue his work with animals.
[1:21:12] And I think about how my students spent
[1:21:15] the last academic year filling my brain
[1:21:19] with fantasies about how they too would
[1:21:23] just as freely as they dream in my
[1:21:25] office
[1:21:29] get to live that out.
[1:21:32] And I can't help but just dwell on how
[1:21:35] unbelievably cruel it is to think of
[1:21:39] about how Isaiah freely dreamed about a
[1:21:43] future he wanted to build for himself
[1:21:46] and it was stolen
[1:21:48] likely by officers who are undertrained
[1:21:51] for the populations that they're dealing
[1:21:53] with. Um,
[1:21:56] I am once again encouraging you guys to
[1:22:00] make the right decision for your
[1:22:02] community. You know, I said something to
[1:22:04] you guys several months ago about how
[1:22:06] you cannot arrive at humanity and
[1:22:08] dignity when you start in a place of
[1:22:10] power and control.
[1:22:11] >> You have 30 seconds remaining.
[1:22:13] » You have 30 seconds remaining.
[1:22:13] >> And you've heard a lot about how you
[1:22:15] » And you've heard a lot about how you
[1:22:15] need to step away from your urge to
[1:22:18] engage with power and control a lot
[1:22:20] tonight. And I suspect until you
[1:22:22] actually make moves that are visible and
[1:22:24] tangible to the community, you will
[1:22:26] continue to hear that. Um, you once
[1:22:29] again have the opportunity to do
[1:22:31] something different. Model real
[1:22:33] accountability for the community and
[1:22:35] display real leadership by applying
[1:22:38] pressure you can to ensure MSP's
[1:22:40] investigation is actually independent.
[1:22:43] >> Thank you for your comments.
[1:22:46] » Thank you for your comments.
[1:22:46] Those were all the slips that I had. Is
[1:22:48] there anyone in the audience uh who has
[1:22:51] not yet spoken who would like to address
[1:22:53] the council please?
[1:22:57] If you could state your name for the
[1:22:58] record, please.
[1:23:02] » Yeah. My name is Rasha Thomas.
[1:23:07] I'm going to remove my emotions and put
[1:23:10] aside the rage.
[1:23:13] My wife and I moved out in East Lancing.
[1:23:15] Uh she graduated from Michigan State. I
[1:23:17] know the police are shady. I get pulled
[1:23:19] over like twice a night, twice a week,
[1:23:22] visiting my fiance. Got one moving
[1:23:24] violation in my whole life. I'm 51 years
[1:23:26] old. Pulled over way over 100 times
[1:23:28] these slants. So, I know the deal. I
[1:23:29] know how to move. You know, it's it is
[1:23:31] what it is.
[1:23:33] We have two kids graduate from East
[1:23:36] Lansancy High School doing phenomenal.
[1:23:38] My daughter just graduated from Eastern
[1:23:40] Michigan. My son's on a full ride D1
[1:23:42] football scholarship down there. We are
[1:23:44] terrified when they come home to visit.
[1:23:50] » Terrified. And I'm not a scary dude. I
[1:23:54] can't protect my kids if they want to go
[1:23:56] down to the strip where they went to all
[1:23:58] through high school. They want to just
[1:24:00] visit with their other friends on
[1:24:02] holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas,
[1:24:04] because I don't know what the hell y'all
[1:24:06] going to do.
[1:24:08] >> We already know you don't have to do
[1:24:09] » We already know you don't have to do
[1:24:09] nothing wrong.
[1:24:11] You can just be accused of something.
[1:24:14] I'm not a big guy. I'm not small either.
[1:24:17] But my son is 6'5, 285, playing D1
[1:24:19] football. My daughter's a foot shorter
[1:24:22] than him. So if she drives her little
[1:24:24] brother somewhere, he look the bum thug
[1:24:26] dude, as y'all like to call us now,
[1:24:28] thugs, that's got this girl and and all
[1:24:30] this stuff. Another someone said
[1:24:32] something about teaching your sons how
[1:24:35] to act in the car. I'm like, "Son, just
[1:24:37] be still. You can reach the dashboard
[1:24:40] from where you're at,
[1:24:42] daughter. Just do what you want. Roll
[1:24:44] all windows down. Hit the dome lights.
[1:24:46] Do all of this. Why? So you don't die.
[1:24:52] » Sorry about that. I got a little
[1:24:53] emotional.
[1:24:55] >> Dig this. I hear a lot of stuff about um
[1:24:58] » Dig this. I hear a lot of stuff about um
[1:24:58] [clears throat]
[1:24:59] police training and whatnot.
[1:25:02] It's always an excuse as to why they did
[1:25:04] something wrong.
[1:25:06] I think maybe trying to have a solution,
[1:25:09] not just being upset or angry. Get some
[1:25:11] better people.
[1:25:13] [applause]
[1:25:16] » Get some better people. It is a very
[1:25:19] strenuous job, a high stress job, a very
[1:25:21] important job, a very deadly job.
[1:25:25] >> Y'all got some bums out here being cops.
[1:25:28] » Y'all got some bums out here being cops.
[1:25:28] >> Not all of them, but enough. Obviously,
[1:25:33] » Not all of them, but enough. Obviously,
[1:25:33] if you are that damn scary when you have
[1:25:36] to go into a situation, that's not the
[1:25:39] profession for you. Period.
[1:25:41] >> If you are not a good leader, you won't
[1:25:43] » If you are not a good leader, you won't
[1:25:44] be a football coach. If you're not a
[1:25:46] good doctor or assessing doctor stuff,
[1:25:48] you won't be a doctor. Some jobs because
[1:25:51] you want it and you didn't excel at
[1:25:53] something else and they're hiring does
[1:25:54] not mean you need to get that job.
[1:25:58] That's what no shade to anybody, no
[1:26:00] emotion, not attacking anyone.
[1:26:03] UPS is hiring. The post office is always
[1:26:05] hiring.
[1:26:07] >> You cannot be an EMT and then run in to
[1:26:10] » You cannot be an EMT and then run in to
[1:26:10] help somebody and save their life and be
[1:26:12] like, "Oh, they they mouth look nasty.
[1:26:13] I'm not I'm not getting close to them."
[1:26:15] It's your job. So if you got a pool of
[1:26:18] people that's not from this community,
[1:26:20] come from God knows where to police or
[1:26:23] help this community and they're scared
[1:26:26] of the community that when something
[1:26:28] like this happens and it is a high
[1:26:30] stress level situation, it could be
[1:26:33] dangerous. It was dangerous and your
[1:26:35] first thing is to pull your gun be like,
[1:26:37] "Stop, please stop." Boom, bang, bang.
[1:26:39] Come on now. You don't need that job.
[1:26:41] >> Period. You don't You just don't need
[1:26:44] » Period. You don't You just don't need
[1:26:44] it. Find something else. If you're not a
[1:26:46] leader, Jim Brown, get off.
[1:26:48] >> Yeah.
[1:26:49] » Yeah.
[1:26:49] >> Why do I'm not gonna assume that. It
[1:26:52] » Why do I'm not gonna assume that. It
[1:26:52] seems to me like a lot of people
[1:26:55] would like to try and defend something
[1:26:58] instead of having all the proof why it
[1:27:00] should be removed, just not removing it.
[1:27:02] We're going to keep it because we're
[1:27:03] going to make it right. I don't
[1:27:05] understand that.
[1:27:07] I always say no better, do better.
[1:27:10] I'm really hoping that you guys have
[1:27:12] heard what everybody has to say, that
[1:27:14] you know better
[1:27:16] and you actually start doing better.
[1:27:19] >> I ain't taking no cheap shots at nobody,
[1:27:23] » I ain't taking no cheap shots at nobody,
[1:27:23] but there's so much more that can be
[1:27:25] done. And I'll be damned. Y'all just be
[1:27:27] like, whatever. Stonefaced all across
[1:27:30] here. No emotion.
[1:27:32] You don't got to clap. You ain't got to
[1:27:33] be special. Just listen and do better.
[1:27:35] >> Seconds remaining.
[1:27:37] » Seconds remaining.
[1:27:37] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else in the
[1:27:40] » Thank you. Is there anyone else in the
[1:27:40] audience who would like to speak,
[1:27:43] please?
[1:27:51] » Please state your name for the record.
[1:27:54] >> Good evening. My name is Neil Kunman.
[1:27:55] » Good evening. My name is Neil Kunman.
[1:27:55] I'm a resident of East Lancing,
[1:27:57] Michigan. And I apologize for not
[1:27:59] getting a card in. I just arrived in
[1:28:01] town.
[1:28:02] I'm imploring each of you. I know each
[1:28:05] of you individually.
[1:28:07] I've worked with you. I have a
[1:28:10] tremendous respect for the abilities
[1:28:12] that you have. I am imploring you
[1:28:17] to listen to what is being said tonight
[1:28:20] and to do far better than is being done.
[1:28:25] I too watched those tapes
[1:28:28] and I was
[1:28:31] saddened and angry
[1:28:33] by the fact that our chief of police led
[1:28:36] me to believe
[1:28:38] that that young man was running at a
[1:28:42] police officer with a knife and that's
[1:28:45] why guns were pulled.
[1:28:49] I'm not excusing what that young man
[1:28:51] might have done before he was running
[1:28:54] down the street,
[1:28:56] but he was running down the street.
[1:28:58] Anybody who watched those cameras knew
[1:29:01] that he was not attacking
[1:29:05] anyone.
[1:29:07] And when he was brought down
[1:29:11] and told to put his hands behind his
[1:29:14] back when he had a number of bullets in
[1:29:17] his body already and probably was in a
[1:29:20] state of shock if not dying right there
[1:29:23] and then shot I don't remember if he was
[1:29:27] shot again after that and I really don't
[1:29:29] care whether he was or not. I have been
[1:29:32] astounded. Those of you who know me
[1:29:35] better than others know that I spent an
[1:29:37] awful lot of my life professionally
[1:29:40] working in and around state government.
[1:29:44] And I have been so saddened by what is
[1:29:46] happening in our country and in our
[1:29:49] world by people who are in positions of
[1:29:52] power and are not
[1:29:56] using their power
[1:29:59] and their responsibilities to their
[1:30:02] constituents to do what is right.
[1:30:05] And I believe that we have a
[1:30:09] responsibility
[1:30:10] as a community and I think as our
[1:30:12] elected officials that responsibility
[1:30:14] lies with the five of you and we need to
[1:30:19] figure out how to make this change so
[1:30:23] that we don't ever have this kind of
[1:30:25] situation again. And I don't know where
[1:30:28] you're going to find police officers,
[1:30:29] but when I heard that those police
[1:30:31] officers, one of them had at most three
[1:30:33] years with our force, some of them were
[1:30:36] there for a couple of months, and I
[1:30:38] didn't know that they were not, many of
[1:30:41] them members of our community.
[1:30:44] It's just way too easy to do what they
[1:30:47] did. And I understand it's not an easy
[1:30:50] job. And I understand it's a stressful
[1:30:52] job, but there is
[1:30:56] unbelievable disdain for life
[1:30:59] that causes one to pull a trigger
[1:31:04] >> on a young person
[1:31:07] » on a young person
[1:31:07] who was not attacking them
[1:31:10] >> and who from the looks of the arms that
[1:31:12] » and who from the looks of the arms that
[1:31:12] I could see on those cameras could have
[1:31:16] easily
[1:31:18] taken that young man down without having
[1:31:21] to shoot him, but after the first shot
[1:31:23] could probably have handled everything.
[1:31:26] And I just implore you, first of all, I
[1:31:29] implore you
[1:31:31] to seriously consider getting rid of our
[1:31:33] chief of police,
[1:31:35] >> a person who talks about
[1:31:38] » a person who talks about
[1:31:38] minorities coming into our community
[1:31:42] to do criminal acts. When the It sounds
[1:31:44] like the people who used to tell me when
[1:31:46] I was on the school board that the
[1:31:47] minority kids that come into our schools
[1:31:49] or who are causing the problems with our
[1:31:52] scores, that wasn't the case. That just
[1:31:54] wasn't the case. And we hear that kind
[1:31:57] of rhetoric in our country all the time
[1:32:00] now from the highest levels. And it's
[1:32:03] disgusting and it's disturbing.
[1:32:07] I believe in government. I believe in
[1:32:10] democracy and I believe in
[1:32:12] accountability
[1:32:14] and I would like to say I believe in the
[1:32:16] five of you. I would like desperately to
[1:32:20] see you do what I believe is right.
[1:32:23] Thank you. [applause]
[1:32:25] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else who
[1:32:27] » Thank you. Is there anyone else who
[1:32:27] would like to speak?
[1:32:31] >> Please state your name for the record.
[1:32:32] » Please state your name for the record.
[1:32:32] >> Good evening. Kelly Ellsworth Etches.
[1:32:36] » Good evening. Kelly Ellsworth Etches.
[1:32:36] I want to remind you of a fun
[1:32:39] fundamental promise that seems to be
[1:32:42] lost on the East Lancing Police.
[1:32:45] That fundamental promise located in the
[1:32:48] 14th amendment of the Constitution
[1:32:51] called due process of law.
[1:32:55] when state or local governmental bodies
[1:32:59] have the authority, the power to take
[1:33:02] life, liberty, or property.
[1:33:06] That's why it's there. So that there is
[1:33:09] a due process.
[1:33:12] Mr. Isaiah Kirby did not receive due
[1:33:15] process.
[1:33:18] Your position comes with great
[1:33:20] responsibility.
[1:33:22] And here's your opportunity to write
[1:33:25] this wrong.
[1:33:28] Remove Jen Brown and Robert Bellman.
[1:33:34] [applause]
[1:33:39] » Thank you. If you could state your name
[1:33:41] for the record, please.
[1:33:42] >> Good evening. My [clears throat] name is
[1:33:43] » Good evening. My [clears throat] name is
[1:33:43] Farhan Omar. Uh, I wanted to discuss a
[1:33:46] few things real quick. Um, this case is
[1:33:49] not about the difference between
[1:33:50] stopping a threat. This case is about
[1:33:52] the difference between stopping a threat
[1:33:54] and continuing to use deadly force after
[1:33:56] that threat no longer exists. For
[1:33:59] example, imagine an intruder that breaks
[1:34:03] into your home and steals your property.
[1:34:05] The law still places limits on what you
[1:34:10] are allowed to do. For example, you
[1:34:12] cannot shoot a person in the back as
[1:34:15] they flee. Even though they broke into
[1:34:17] your home and they stole your property,
[1:34:18] you cannot shoot them because they are
[1:34:20] no longer a threat. The justification
[1:34:23] for deadly force disappears.
[1:34:27] The same principle applies here. The
[1:34:29] moment Mr. Kirby was struck by the
[1:34:31] initial rounds of gunfire, he no longer
[1:34:33] posed a threat to the officers.
[1:34:36] We know this not from speculation,
[1:34:39] but from one of the officers own words
[1:34:42] when they said, "Let's use less lethal
[1:34:45] force.
[1:34:46] Those are not the words of someone
[1:34:48] facing an immediate deadly threat.
[1:34:52] >> Those are the words of someone
[1:34:53] » Those are the words of someone
[1:34:53] recognizing that that danger had already
[1:34:56] passed.
[1:34:58] So there was no need to keep shooting
[1:35:00] that young man.
[1:35:03] He did not pose a threat to those
[1:35:05] officers or to the community any longer.
[1:35:08] With that being said, I want to directly
[1:35:10] address Mayor Alman.
[1:35:14] Mr. Almond, you are gambling with black
[1:35:18] people lives.
[1:35:20] You are single-handedly gambling with
[1:35:23] black people lives.
[1:35:26] You pose a colossal danger to this
[1:35:28] community, to the black community. You
[1:35:31] pose a bigger threat to the black
[1:35:32] community than the chief.
[1:35:36] Some of the things that you put on this
[1:35:37] agenda.
[1:35:39] Some of the things that you put on this
[1:35:41] agenda, whether it's intentional or not,
[1:35:43] it is harming this community, the black
[1:35:45] community, limiting how long we can
[1:35:47] speak. Sergeants in arms in this place.
[1:35:51] Really? How many times have we all
[1:35:54] witnessed after a Michigan State versus
[1:35:57] Michigan game, a bunch of white kids
[1:36:00] setting couches on fire in this city?
[1:36:03] >> How many times have we seen white kids
[1:36:04] » How many times have we seen white kids
[1:36:04] climbing poles in this city?
[1:36:07] How many times have we seen black kids
[1:36:10] setting tire white kids setting tires on
[1:36:12] fire in this city? I've never heard a a
[1:36:16] chief described them as a problem to
[1:36:20] this community.
[1:36:22] I've never seen a mayor try to limit the
[1:36:25] voices of white people when they pack
[1:36:26] this room.
[1:36:28] I've never seen or heard Sergeants and
[1:36:32] Arm being recommended.
[1:36:37] When I look at you, Mr. Almond, you
[1:36:39] remind me of the governors back in the
[1:36:42] day and the mayors back in the day that
[1:36:45] that used to use the National Guard
[1:36:47] against MLK.
[1:36:50] They use they used to use the police
[1:36:53] force,
[1:36:56] the dogs, the water hose.
[1:37:00] It's 2026.
[1:37:02] We see it.
[1:37:04] We notice it.
[1:37:07] Stop it. We've been coming here for
[1:37:11] months, for weeks, telling you guys a
[1:37:14] black kid is going to die in this city
[1:37:15] if y'all don't stop.
[1:37:18] I've come out here. The black community,
[1:37:20] black leaders have come out here. The
[1:37:21] NAACP have come out come out here. It
[1:37:24] wasn't enough.
[1:37:26] And then guess what? Another black
[1:37:28] person is going to die in the city.
[1:37:30] Unfortunately,
[1:37:32] and then what? What is going to be a
[1:37:34] response?
[1:37:36] This is the same body that has made it
[1:37:39] impossible for Dana Watson to to do her
[1:37:42] job as a council member.
[1:37:44] >> You guys ran her out of counsel.
[1:37:48] » You guys ran her out of counsel.
[1:37:48] It is you guys.
[1:37:51] It is you Wheeling. It is you Mark
[1:37:54] Meadows. It is you Almond. And is you
[1:37:56] miss Singh that keep passing every
[1:37:58] single harmful law or ordinance in this
[1:38:01] city.
[1:38:04] It is y'all
[1:38:07] and it's also the city manager which
[1:38:09] which responds to you guys. You guys are
[1:38:11] their boss or his boss. So therefore,
[1:38:14] the blame comes to you guys.
[1:38:16] I'm so sick and tired of the excuses.
[1:38:18] I'm so sick and tired of these everybody
[1:38:20] just looking at us in disgust as if
[1:38:22] we're the problem. Really? Have you ever
[1:38:25] been pulled over by a cop? Do Do you get
[1:38:28] scared when you get pulled over by a
[1:38:29] cop? I do. And my record is just as
[1:38:32] clean as yours, Mr. Hallman. I have full
[1:38:34] insurance just like you, but I still get
[1:38:37] scared. Not because I'm a criminal, but
[1:38:40] because I'm black.
[1:38:42] You should be ashamed of yourself.
[1:38:44] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else who
[1:38:46] » Thank you. Is there anyone else who
[1:38:46] would like to address the council?
[1:38:52] Le June I was not planning to speak but
[1:38:55] there's been a group of people meeting
[1:38:56] in the community and they formed a
[1:39:00] coalition called Citizen for Justice
[1:39:04] and we've kind of tried to concretize
[1:39:08] all of the things that you've been
[1:39:09] hearing here tonight in terms of eight
[1:39:12] demands
[1:39:14] and that we hope to follow through and
[1:39:17] work with you in bringing about
[1:39:21] We come in the spirit of Amos who said,
[1:39:24] "Let justice roll down like waters."
[1:39:27] Micah, who said, "I will tell thee, oh
[1:39:30] mortal, what is right, and what does God
[1:39:33] require of you, but to do justice, love
[1:39:37] mercy, and walk humbly with God."
[1:39:40] So,
[1:39:42] our first demand
[1:39:45] is for the immediate removal of the
[1:39:46] police chief, Jen Brown, through
[1:39:49] termination or resignation. We've talked
[1:39:52] to some of you and you indicate to us
[1:39:54] that the city council does not hire. So,
[1:39:58] our second demand is going to ask for a
[1:40:01] meeting with Mr. Bellman so we can talk
[1:40:04] about things within your jurisdiction.
[1:40:07] and we request a meeting before May 29th
[1:40:11] to talk about a series of things. Now,
[1:40:14] let me go back to
[1:40:16] the number one request which we are
[1:40:18] making and you've heard that in detail.
[1:40:21] In my experience, when someone
[1:40:25] is leading an organization and multiple
[1:40:28] things happen, at minimum, you generally
[1:40:31] remove that person
[1:40:34] even if you're doing an investigation.
[1:40:36] And we're kind of puzzled why she has
[1:40:39] not at least been temporarily, but we're
[1:40:42] requesting her removal. And we do that.
[1:40:44] She might be a nice person, but that's
[1:40:46] not the issue. She has lost her
[1:40:48] credibility.
[1:40:50] >> And when one lose their credibility,
[1:40:52] » And when one lose their credibility,
[1:40:52] they're ineffective as a leader.
[1:40:55] The other five demands, and my T clock
[1:40:58] is ticking, is we want a
[1:41:02] police policy rewritten with the East
[1:41:05] Lancing Independent Police Oversight
[1:41:07] Committee that requires extensive
[1:41:09] anti-racism training for all East
[1:41:12] Lancing employees, approved by the
[1:41:14] director of diversity, equity, and
[1:41:16] inclusion.
[1:41:18] We want
[1:41:20] uh a police policy regarding
[1:41:23] deescalation.
[1:41:24] And would you bring those sheets up? I
[1:41:28] don't have time to go through them in
[1:41:29] all details.
[1:41:31] >> We want to restore full funding for
[1:41:33] » We want to restore full funding for
[1:41:33] Ellipot and HRC.
[1:41:35] Require input from Ellip and HRC on
[1:41:39] various things. And I don't have time to
[1:41:42] go through all of them, but what we're
[1:41:44] going to do as a coalition is to
[1:41:46] continue to monitor these and ask you to
[1:41:50] act upon them in a reasonable time.
[1:41:55] So
[1:41:57] you've heard those demands
[1:42:00] and we think they are reasonable. Now,
[1:42:02] we also have empathy for Mr. Mock. We
[1:42:06] want people to know that we wish his
[1:42:08] continued speedy recovery, but this act
[1:42:12] and his act are two separate ones. And I
[1:42:15] we appreciate uh two things that I know
[1:42:18] this happened. Um it's my understanding
[1:42:22] that the mayor and the city manager did
[1:42:25] speak to
[1:42:27] Mrs. Kirby. And if that's true, we
[1:42:30] appreciate it. And we appreciate you,
[1:42:32] Mr. Grisby in terms of having your
[1:42:35] session yesterday, but we need to move
[1:42:38] forward on these kinds of things. I
[1:42:40] watched the videotape
[1:42:43] and I
[1:42:46] debated whether to say this, but
[1:42:49] I came away and one word struck me and
[1:42:53] that word was slaughtered.
[1:42:56] And I looked up the definition of
[1:42:58] slaughtered. And slaughter mean to kill
[1:43:01] in a brutal, violent or indiscriminate
[1:43:04] manner. It is most commonly referred to
[1:43:06] butchering livestock for food or mass
[1:43:10] killing of humans in war. And I walked
[1:43:14] away feeling that this young man was
[1:43:17] butchered and slaughtered. So we are
[1:43:21] disappointed in what happened. Dr. King,
[1:43:23] you talk about him. You know, I heard
[1:43:25] him speak in person a couple times,
[1:43:27] >> 30 seconds,
[1:43:27] » 30 seconds,
[1:43:27] >> but King said there can be no great
[1:43:29] » but King said there can be no great
[1:43:29] disappointment where there's no love.
[1:43:32] And so, we come in love. We want to work
[1:43:34] with you. We've talked to some of you
[1:43:36] and we'll continue to do that. And we
[1:43:38] love this community and we want to work
[1:43:41] together with you to make this happen.
[1:43:44] And King, I'll stop with this. He often
[1:43:47] told us as young people in Alabama, he
[1:43:49] said, "How long?"
[1:43:51] Then he would always tell us, "Not
[1:43:53] long." And then he would remind us, I I
[1:43:56] know my time is up. I got 10 more
[1:43:57] seconds. He would say, "How long? Not
[1:44:00] long. Because no lie can live forever."
[1:44:04] >> How long? Not long. Because true
[1:44:06] » How long? Not long. Because true
[1:44:06] structure earth will rise again. How
[1:44:10] long? Not long.
[1:44:12] Because the ark of the moral universe is
[1:44:15] long,
[1:44:17] but it bends toward justice.
[1:44:18] >> Thank you. Thank you.
[1:44:19] » Thank you. Thank you.
[1:44:19] >> And I can predict tonight. I'm sitting
[1:44:21] » And I can predict tonight. I'm sitting
[1:44:21] is that eventually Miss Brown will be
[1:44:24] let go since your time has expired
[1:44:25] >> and we're just curious why it's taken so
[1:44:27] » and we're just curious why it's taken so
[1:44:27] long.
[1:44:28] >> Is there anyone else who would like to
[1:44:30] » Is there anyone else who would like to
[1:44:30] speak to the council? [applause]
[1:44:35] » Good evening. My name is Jacqueline
[1:44:36] Humphrey and I'm a resident of Lancing.
[1:44:40] And I didn't come tonight to speak, but
[1:44:42] this situation reminded me so much of
[1:44:44] Patrick Leola
[1:44:46] who died at the hands of a police
[1:44:49] officer in Grand Rapids. And I happen to
[1:44:52] know the family personally because my
[1:44:54] husband and I started an outreach
[1:44:56] ministry with the resettle of refugees
[1:44:58] back in n uh 2005.
[1:45:02] And this young man was only stopped. He
[1:45:04] was stopped because the of the license
[1:45:07] plate on the car and Patrick ran. The
[1:45:10] policeman tried to tase him, he grabbed
[1:45:13] the taser. The policeman then ran after
[1:45:17] him. And as he hel held him down the
[1:45:20] ground and handcuffed him, he was on his
[1:45:22] stomach. The police shot him in the
[1:45:24] head.
[1:45:25] And there was no justice for him because
[1:45:28] there's an all-white jury who were hung
[1:45:31] and the police officer did not spend a
[1:45:34] day. He's not going to spend any time. I
[1:45:38] hope there's justice. I hope there's
[1:45:40] justice for Isaiah and the police
[1:45:43] officer regardless of whatever whatever
[1:45:45] you they come up with that he should
[1:45:48] definitely spend the rest of his life in
[1:45:50] prison. I'm sorry. That's just how I
[1:45:52] feel. But it's so sad because we have a
[1:45:56] son and for years we told him if a
[1:45:59] police officer stops you get to a light
[1:46:02] a very well-lit area a gas station and
[1:46:05] call us. We want to be there because
[1:46:08] there's people that don't believe
[1:46:10] profiling is real. It's extremely real.
[1:46:14] And our daughters when they graduated
[1:46:16] from high school wanted nothing to do
[1:46:19] with Michigan State. They did not want
[1:46:21] to go to a white university and they
[1:46:23] chose to go to H.B.CU where they care
[1:46:27] about them and they graduated and said
[1:46:30] that was the best experience they could
[1:46:31] have had. But they did not want to come
[1:46:34] here because I was an employee at the
[1:46:36] time and they could have gotten their
[1:46:37] tuition half but for they did not want
[1:46:40] to come and we certainly didn't force
[1:46:42] them. And so there is the issue here.
[1:46:45] And you know I I as others have said the
[1:46:48] faces and as you're looking
[1:46:51] [sighs and gasps]
[1:46:52] I hope you have the heart that your
[1:46:54] hearts are not so hardened
[1:46:56] [clears throat] that you can see that
[1:46:58] there is a serious problem here. And I
[1:47:01] just want to say as an associate pastor
[1:47:04] if you don't do the right thing God will
[1:47:06] fix this.
[1:47:08] >> God is going to take care of all of
[1:47:10] » God is going to take care of all of
[1:47:10] this. And so if you can't come to a
[1:47:12] decision, he's going to take care of our
[1:47:15] president. He's going to take care of
[1:47:16] this country. And he's going to take
[1:47:18] care of each and every one of you. So I
[1:47:21] just I just you all to please think
[1:47:25] about what you're doing here, the people
[1:47:27] who are affected, and the fact that
[1:47:30] Isaiah, no person needs to have 17
[1:47:34] bullets in their body. Only one could
[1:47:37] kill a person. How many times?
[1:47:40] And whatever was going on with the
[1:47:42] police officer, it didn't take all that.
[1:47:44] It didn't take 17 bullets.
[1:47:49] So Patrick being shot in the head is no
[1:47:52] different from him. And I know for a
[1:47:54] fact that Patrick was scared. He ran
[1:47:57] because he was scared. And all they
[1:47:59] really had to do is put handcuffs
[1:48:03] handcuffs on him and take him to jail.
[1:48:05] But they didn't.
[1:48:08] They shot him in the back of the head.
[1:48:11] So that's what we call justice in the
[1:48:14] United States. And it's a sad state that
[1:48:17] we're in. It's really, really sad. And
[1:48:19] it hurts my heart. And I thank Teresa
[1:48:23] uh who's the attorney for the family
[1:48:25] because I know she's going to work hard
[1:48:28] with the family and will seek justice.
[1:48:30] And I just hope that there is justice
[1:48:33] for Isaiah, but more so there's justice
[1:48:35] for the people of East Lancing.
[1:48:38] [applause]
[1:48:39] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else who
[1:48:41] » Thank you. Is there anyone else who
[1:48:41] would like to speak?
[1:48:46] » Hi. Uh my name is Marissa Gaines. I
[1:48:50] never been to a city council meeting
[1:48:52] before. Um it's been very entertaining.
[1:48:55] I also didn't plan to get up and speak
[1:48:57] today. I
[1:48:59] what everyone has said has been very
[1:49:01] enlightening. Um I didn't watch the
[1:49:04] video of Isaiah because I didn't think
[1:49:06] I'd be able to handle it. I grew up with
[1:49:09] him. We grew up in Baltimore City.
[1:49:12] We grew up in Baltimore City.
[1:49:16] The crime there is unbelievable.
[1:49:19] And we both were at Michigan State. And
[1:49:24] a lot of the times when a person from
[1:49:25] Baltimore City gets out of Baltimore
[1:49:27] City, we say that we made it because we
[1:49:30] made it out of Baltimore City. Nothing
[1:49:32] happened to us. We ran track. We were
[1:49:35] close. We were family. We made it out of
[1:49:38] Baltimore City.
[1:49:40] The fact that he couldn't make it here
[1:49:42] in East Lancing is that's not okay. It's
[1:49:45] it's a really difficult thing. And and
[1:49:47] when we found out that Isaiah passed
[1:49:50] away in East Lancing, but he made it out
[1:49:53] of Baltimore City,
[1:49:56] it's not okay. I I don't have that much
[1:49:58] to say other than that. We're We were
[1:50:00] just two kids from Baltimore City in
[1:50:03] college trying to get our education. We
[1:50:04] thought that we made it. That was our I
[1:50:06] made it moment. He was headed to Texas.
[1:50:08] He was going to get a good job. He was
[1:50:10] excited.
[1:50:12] I I didn't watch the video. I know very
[1:50:14] limited information. I just know that we
[1:50:16] are two kids from Baltimore City who
[1:50:18] made it and then he didn't. And and
[1:50:21] we're just calling for justice. That's
[1:50:22] that's all I have to say. Thank you.
[1:50:25] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else who
[1:50:28] » Thank you. Is there anyone else who
[1:50:28] would like to speak?
[1:50:32] » Please state your name for the record.
[1:50:34] >> Uh my name is Antonio Gomez. To the
[1:50:37] » Uh my name is Antonio Gomez. To the
[1:50:37] crowd, I'm apologize. I'm pretty
[1:50:39] emotional right now, so [snorts] not
[1:50:42] really sure what I'm going to say, but
[1:50:46] I watched a video like a lot of people
[1:50:48] did.
[1:50:49] Um,
[1:50:51] it's clear there's a severe lack of
[1:50:53] training within our police department
[1:50:56] that they would put themselves
[1:50:59] in danger
[1:51:01] and use an excuse of deadly force
[1:51:03] because they put themselves in danger.
[1:51:07] And
[1:51:11] it just makes me mad that you were given
[1:51:13] the recommendation that this police
[1:51:15] chief was not a good fit for this city.
[1:51:20] Um, and
[1:51:23] you are putting the city in danger. You
[1:51:26] are putting us in danger by having a
[1:51:28] police chief that obviously is not doing
[1:51:32] her job correctly with unqualified
[1:51:35] officers that put us all at risk
[1:51:38] for any small thing that could happen.
[1:51:44] And
[1:51:46] I, you know, I'm not really sure you're
[1:51:48] listening to us. Like I I've only just
[1:51:51] started talking recently, but I know
[1:51:53] others have been here time and time and
[1:51:56] time again, and it just looks like
[1:51:58] nothing's getting through to any of you.
[1:52:05] I guess the these next remarks go to the
[1:52:07] crowd. I mean, I just don't have faith
[1:52:10] in any of these people. They have
[1:52:15] if they want me to have faith in them,
[1:52:16] it's too late. It's gone. It's been
[1:52:19] taken away by their lack of action
[1:52:22] across the board. Like, I do not have
[1:52:25] faith that a former police officer will
[1:52:27] hold his people accountable. I don't
[1:52:29] have faith that a person I've seen lie
[1:52:32] to people will start telling the truth.
[1:52:34] I don't have faith that someone I'm
[1:52:36] worried might be a racist will soon find
[1:52:39] themselves to be a good person. I don't
[1:52:40] have faith that like a c a coward will
[1:52:43] find the courage. And I don't have
[1:52:45] faith. The lady that seems to just look
[1:52:47] the other way time and time again will,
[1:52:50] you know, just decide that she's going
[1:52:52] to actually pay attention when serious
[1:52:54] accusations are brought forward against
[1:52:57] the, you know, city manager. I don't
[1:52:59] have faith anywhere. I don't have faith
[1:53:01] in you at all. I don't know why you want
[1:53:04] this job. You should just all resign.
[1:53:10] You are putting our city in danger.
[1:53:14] You are turning your power against the
[1:53:16] people here.
[1:53:18] Leave. Get out. I don't want you here.
[1:53:22] And I'm pretty sure a lot of people
[1:53:23] don't want you here.
[1:53:26] Thank you. Is there anyone else who
[1:53:29] would like to address the council?
[1:53:37] » Hello. Um, my name is Carolina Wheeler.
[1:53:40] I'm a rising senior at MSU. I moved here
[1:53:44] from Kentucky um in 2023 and one of the
[1:53:48] things I was most excited about about
[1:53:51] going to school out of state, going up
[1:53:54] north was thinking that things would be
[1:53:57] different, largely more progressive,
[1:54:01] um and while I certainly see less
[1:54:03] Confederate flags flown around my
[1:54:05] neighborhood,
[1:54:08] um y'all, it's it's very real down
[1:54:10] there. Um,
[1:54:13] there are certain things that I'm
[1:54:15] learning that are so pervasive and
[1:54:19] insidious within American society and
[1:54:22] American institutions that there is no
[1:54:24] escaping them. Um, even what seems to be
[1:54:28] a liberal college town.
[1:54:32] So, I suppose I was naive, but I started
[1:54:36] off naive. Um, I was raised in Kentucky
[1:54:39] in the south by affluent white
[1:54:42] Republicans. Um, and I remember being
[1:54:45] taught about the police as a child, not
[1:54:48] much older than or fairly probably
[1:54:51] younger than the child who spoke here
[1:54:53] earlier tonight. um and being taught
[1:54:56] that the police were brave, valiant
[1:54:59] public servants whose job was to protect
[1:55:02] people and ensure order and keep society
[1:55:07] safe.
[1:55:08] Um obviously
[1:55:11] throughout my adult life, I've learned
[1:55:14] the true history of policing in America.
[1:55:18] you know, starting with
[1:55:21] the the incredibly violent history of
[1:55:25] slave patrols,
[1:55:27] um the enforcement of vagrancy laws
[1:55:30] through the 70s. That's crazy.
[1:55:33] Um the brutal crackdowns on the civil
[1:55:36] rights movement, the war on drugs,
[1:55:39] there's no denying that policing in
[1:55:42] America is rotten to the core. And
[1:55:45] that's something that no city can
[1:55:48] escape, no town, regardless of purported
[1:55:52] reform or changes in leadership
[1:55:57] or, you know, really really much that
[1:56:00] they try to do um to to make policing
[1:56:03] better. Um
[1:56:06] and so
[1:56:10] I've presented two sort of definitions
[1:56:12] of the American policing system here.
[1:56:15] One is that they are they're brave and
[1:56:17] they protect us. And one is that they
[1:56:20] are deeply flawed and the original
[1:56:23] intent is something much graver than is
[1:56:26] presented to Americans. And in light of
[1:56:29] this incident with Isaiah Kirby,
[1:56:33] um there's really only two conclusions
[1:56:35] you can make. Um one for each of those.
[1:56:39] either a the specific officers involved
[1:56:42] in Isaiah Kirby's death were in fact not
[1:56:44] the valiant public servants I was taught
[1:56:46] about in school but rather cowards in
[1:56:49] body armor and tactical shields and
[1:56:54] armed with tasers and pistols and foam
[1:56:59] foam thingy
[1:57:01] I forgot the term for it I saw them load
[1:57:03] it in the video um it's interesting that
[1:57:07] it was there was no attempt made to
[1:57:10] deploy that but it wouldn't have changed
[1:57:13] anything probably.
[1:57:16] Anyways, B the second option is that the
[1:57:18] Carlson institution of policing in
[1:57:20] America is irrevocably intertwined with
[1:57:23] racism towards black Americans without
[1:57:25] exception. I kind of already said that.
[1:57:28] Um
[1:57:30] anyways, to wrap up, I wanted to make
[1:57:33] the point that violent crime is not
[1:57:35] something that ever happens within a
[1:57:37] vacuum. Um it happens because societal
[1:57:40] conditions are created by the
[1:57:42] institutions and they are sustained by
[1:57:44] these institutions. Violent crime is
[1:57:47] contributed to by mental health crisis,
[1:57:50] substance abuse, housing insecurity, and
[1:57:53] even as we see now, episodes of
[1:57:56] psychosis triggered and/or egged on by
[1:57:58] the sickopantic tendencies of
[1:57:59] unregulated large language models which
[1:58:02] cities around the country are promoting
[1:58:06] via allowing data centers. Um, all of
[1:58:10] these are also interconnected with
[1:58:13] broader societal issues. Um and as we
[1:58:16] see the American government shift
[1:58:18] towards
[1:58:20] um more authoritar authoritarian rule
[1:58:22] and defunding public service programs
[1:58:25] like um you know healthcare etc and
[1:58:28] housing um these are only going to get
[1:58:31] worse and East Lancing has to figure out
[1:58:32] a way to deal with these problems that
[1:58:35] cause violent crime at the root and not
[1:58:37] to try and cut the buds.
[1:58:40] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else?
[1:58:43] » Thank you. Is there anyone else?
[1:58:43] [applause]
[1:58:45] » Please state your name for the record.
[1:58:47] >> Yes, I'm Dr. Sharon Hobbs. I'm a
[1:58:49] » Yes, I'm Dr. Sharon Hobbs. I'm a
[1:58:49] clinical psychologist. Uh, I've been
[1:58:52] here 42 years. I was born and raised in
[1:58:56] Harlem, New York. I am not a small town
[1:58:59] girl.
[1:59:01] I'm also on the East Lancing Independent
[1:59:04] Police Oversight Committee
[1:59:08] Commission rather and I have watched for
[1:59:12] the last four years this council's
[1:59:16] unwavering effort to take away any voice
[1:59:22] that we as commissioners could expound
[1:59:26] on in terms of the needs and concerns
[1:59:30] that citizen Citizens in East Lancing
[1:59:32] have we were supposed to be by ordinance
[1:59:36] their voice, but the council has felt
[1:59:41] that
[1:59:42] it's best to keep us quiet.
[1:59:45] Early on when we had concerns about how
[1:59:49] police officers were handling all
[1:59:52] citizens, not just black citizens, how
[1:59:55] they did not know how to deal with
[1:59:58] mental health crisis. Mental health
[2:00:00] issues are not just with the black
[2:00:02] community. There's mental health issues
[2:00:05] in all aspects of our community and our
[2:00:07] police have not been trained to handle
[2:00:10] them.
[2:00:12] Many years ago when my son was a
[2:00:14] teenager and he was about six feet tall
[2:00:16] and about 200 lb, he and his friend were
[2:00:19] sitting across the street from my house
[2:00:21] in Shaw States. He was smoking. Um he
[2:00:24] had finished smoking by the time the
[2:00:26] police drove through, but the police
[2:00:28] officer felt that there was a need to
[2:00:31] get out of his car and walk over to my
[2:00:34] son and his friend who is also
[2:00:37] African-American to ask why were they
[2:00:40] there?
[2:00:42] My son said, "I live across the street."
[2:00:46] And he pointed to our house, which was a
[2:00:47] very unusual looking house. And the
[2:00:50] officer said, "That's Dr. Hobbs's
[2:00:53] house." And he said, "I'm Dr. Hobbs's
[2:00:56] son." The next day, that police officer
[2:01:00] came to my office to apologize because
[2:01:03] when he told his wife, his wife said
[2:01:06] that was racist.
[2:01:08] And so he came and apologized to me and
[2:01:11] later apologized to my son.
[2:01:15] I feel sorry for the police officers who
[2:01:19] shot Isaiah
[2:01:23] because I don't think you all give a
[2:01:24] damn about those officers.
[2:01:28] I think you care much more
[2:01:31] about
[2:01:33] East Lancing and the glory of East
[2:01:35] Lancing.
[2:01:37] When you shoot someone,
[2:01:39] even if they're your enemy in war, it it
[2:01:44] hits you in the heart.
[2:01:47] And we put these police officers in
[2:01:51] these positions without giving them the
[2:01:54] training and the sensitivity training
[2:01:57] that is required. You can't be a police
[2:02:00] officer and not think quickly on your
[2:02:03] feet. When your police chief says
[2:02:07] minorities coming into the community of
[2:02:10] the problem and you see this young man
[2:02:13] with a knife, is that not a minority
[2:02:15] who's come into this community, this
[2:02:18] wonderful community to cause problems? I
[2:02:21] mean, the police officers
[2:02:24] have been set up and I think there's a
[2:02:27] lot of work that can be do be done with
[2:02:29] our police officers. I don't think
[2:02:31] they're all a piece of crap. And no, I
[2:02:33] don't want these men to go to prison for
[2:02:36] the rest of their lives. I want them to
[2:02:39] have plenty of time to think about what
[2:02:42] their actions did, not only to Isaiah
[2:02:45] and his family, but to all of us, black
[2:02:48] and white.
[2:02:50] The commission
[2:02:52] said Jen Brown after having served as a
[2:02:56] temporary person was not right for this
[2:02:59] community. But I I interviewed I
[2:03:02] interviewed the candidates and she was
[2:03:04] not the strongest candidate. But our
[2:03:06] city attorney I mean rather our city
[2:03:09] manager seemed to have a special liking
[2:03:12] for her. So that even the questions were
[2:03:15] geared for her. How can somebody who's
[2:03:18] coming from across the country know
[2:03:20] about our annual reports? So, even the
[2:03:23] interviews were geared for her. I don't
[2:03:25] know why he is so enamored of her, but I
[2:03:28] do know she is not good for East
[2:03:31] Lancing. We've got to do better. Some of
[2:03:34] you I've known for a long time, like
[2:03:36] Mark, and I must say, Mark, I am very
[2:03:39] disappointed. I thought you would be at
[2:03:42] least a voice here and be heard. and
[2:03:44] I've known your husband forever.
[2:03:48] We've got to do better.
[2:03:51] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else who
[2:03:53] » Thank you. Is there anyone else who
[2:03:53] would like to speak?
[2:03:56] >> Please state your name for the record.
[2:03:58] » Please state your name for the record.
[2:03:58] >> Olivier Strad.
[2:04:01] » Olivier Strad.
[2:04:01] Uh first off, I just wanted to say what
[2:04:04] I saw um from the body cam footage was a
[2:04:08] young man who was shot several times
[2:04:10] after he was already on the ground. Um,
[2:04:12] and in international law, this is
[2:04:15] considered, you know, a war crime. Um,
[2:04:18] shooting somebody after they're already
[2:04:21] down uh is considered double tapping.
[2:04:24] Um,
[2:04:28] also on the 13th, I one of you guys said
[2:04:31] that um, you can't predict this kind of
[2:04:33] tragedy and I've heard nothing but the
[2:04:35] community telling you that this was
[2:04:37] predicted.
[2:04:39] Um uh
[2:04:42] I mainly wanted to come up here to say
[2:04:46] this. Um I apologize. Uh it's going to
[2:04:50] be hard for me to get through this, but
[2:04:51] um I I lived by where this incident used
[2:04:54] to or where this incident happened. Um I
[2:04:57] I lived with a young black man who
[2:04:59] dreamed of being a baker. Um he would
[2:05:01] make me the food that he hoped to put in
[2:05:03] his restaurant someday. Um, oh, right
[2:05:06] after the MSU shooting, uh, he seriously
[2:05:10] wasn't doing well. Uh, and I reached out
[2:05:12] to the city because he, like me, um,
[2:05:14] didn't have a family that, uh,
[2:05:17] I could go to. And I I've I've had
[2:05:20] multiple white friends who I've been
[2:05:21] able to get mental help for, um, when
[2:05:24] they really needed it. Um, you know, and
[2:05:27] I I wasn't able to take care of him
[2:05:28] anymore because I had to go to a surgery
[2:05:31] um, and was going to be away for a
[2:05:32] while. uh the city sent the police. Um
[2:05:37] it just made him a lot worse. Uh and uh
[2:05:41] just with his mental headsp space, it
[2:05:43] could have ended up like this incident.
[2:05:46] Um which I think the police handled
[2:05:49] awfully. Um,
[2:05:55] when I returned from my surgery, um, I
[2:05:57] walked into an active unmarked crime
[2:06:00] scene where I found the, uh, you know,
[2:06:04] remnants of my roommates's last days.
[2:06:07] And so I guess um along with the fact
[2:06:11] that the police should have handled this
[2:06:14] situation completely differently from my
[2:06:17] experience, I don't understand how we um
[2:06:21] help people like retroactively.
[2:06:24] Um
[2:06:26] so that's all I wanted to say. [snorts]
[2:06:29] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else
[2:06:31] » Thank you. Is there anyone else
[2:06:31] [applause]
[2:06:32] who would like to address the council?
[2:06:38] Seeing none, are there any callers?
[2:06:40] >> There's one caller on the line. Caller
[2:06:42] » There's one caller on the line. Caller
[2:06:42] with your last name Austin, you are now
[2:06:44] free to address the council.
[2:06:53] Caller with your last name Austin, you
[2:06:55] are now free to address the council.
[2:07:01] » There are no callers remaining on the
[2:07:03] line.
[2:07:03] >> All right. Thank you. Uh that brings us
[2:07:06] » All right. Thank you. Uh that brings us
[2:07:06] to communications from council uh
[2:07:09] council member Whan.
[2:07:12] [snorts]
[2:07:18] It's very difficult to know what to say
[2:07:20] in a situation like this.
[2:07:23] Obviously our community is hurting.
[2:07:26] Um staff are hurting.
[2:07:29] >> [clears throat]
[2:07:29] » [clears throat]
[2:07:30] >> I wanted to originally talk about the
[2:07:31] » I wanted to originally talk about the
[2:07:31] Artfest and how incredible it was where
[2:07:34] people from all over the state came in
[2:07:37] to enjoy our community.
[2:07:39] Myself and um Mayor Tam Griggsby went to
[2:07:42] a Michigan Municipal League training
[2:07:45] this weekend on how we can be better at
[2:07:48] doing our jobs and it was very
[2:07:50] informative. I really appreciate uh my
[2:07:53] colleague
[2:07:56] just a reminder that we're not the
[2:07:57] investigative
[2:08:01] bureau of the situation.
[2:08:05] We are not getting any formal comments
[2:08:08] from the man who was stabbed many many
[2:08:10] times.
[2:08:13] We are not seeking other eyewitness
[2:08:16] accounts. We're not talking to those
[2:08:18] involved. We're not um
[2:08:24] and video does show just a portion of
[2:08:27] the situation.
[2:08:29] We're leaving this to the Michigan State
[2:08:31] Police because that's appropriate.
[2:08:34] It's not appropriate for the East
[2:08:35] Lancing Police Department to investigate
[2:08:37] the situation. So, we need to have an
[2:08:40] outside agency
[2:08:42] investigate that. That investigation
[2:08:45] takes time.
[2:08:47] Okay.
[2:08:49] There is lots of rules with council. We
[2:08:52] can't get together and talk.
[2:08:56] We there's an opens meetings act that is
[2:08:59] critical that we don't do business
[2:09:02] outside this room.
[2:09:04] So, um I do ask for patience and due
[2:09:08] process and patience in the situation.
[2:09:13] I do think there's a lot of people that
[2:09:15] have seen this and they've
[2:09:19] um
[2:09:22] it's traumatic and I think I want to
[2:09:25] make sure that we can reach out to
[2:09:26] mental health professionals
[2:09:29] to um be able to
[2:09:32] um deal with issues and
[2:09:35] um it's just very very difficult
[2:09:37] situations for everyone involved. It's
[2:09:40] very traumatic and I appreciate several
[2:09:43] of the comments that addressed that. Um,
[2:09:47] I guess that's all I have to say.
[2:09:49] >> Thank you, Council Member Meadows.
[2:09:55] » Well, I'll try to be, you know, fairly
[2:09:57] brief here.
[2:09:59] Um I I just want to say that um even
[2:10:03] though we may have poker faces while
[2:10:05] we're listening to people, I think that
[2:10:07] most of us want to make sure that people
[2:10:10] know that we are listening to them and
[2:10:13] by reacting sometimes it may uh indicate
[2:10:17] that we're we're not
[2:10:21] the uh you asked me specifically about
[2:10:24] lunge. I don't actually remember ever
[2:10:26] using the word lunge uh in relation to
[2:10:28] this in particular. It may have been a
[2:10:31] reporter's question and they used the
[2:10:33] word or something like that. But as I
[2:10:36] indicated last week, what I saw as of
[2:10:40] last week was the abbreviated version of
[2:10:43] this this particular incident. And in
[2:10:47] that incident, there is a moment in time
[2:10:50] just before this ends, before that ends
[2:10:53] where uh Isaiah moves from the bike lane
[2:10:57] into the regular, you know, part of the
[2:11:00] street and seems to be heading towards
[2:11:03] the police car. That's what I was
[2:11:06] referring to. But I want to emphasize
[2:11:09] the other things I said because they
[2:11:11] were characterized as being u
[2:11:14] insensitive
[2:11:15] uh by uh the attorney for the family who
[2:11:18] I've known for years and you know I want
[2:11:21] to make sure that I am not insensitive
[2:11:24] and want to emphasize that I meant what
[2:11:26] I said when I began to talk last week.
[2:11:29] Nobody
[2:11:40] who has a child
[2:11:43] wants to outlive that child.
[2:11:48] And uh you know I think u the tragedy of
[2:11:53] this is widespread.
[2:11:56] Even putting aside the [snorts]
[2:11:59] the number of bullets that might have
[2:12:00] been used, um [clears throat]
[2:12:03] the question I asked then is the
[2:12:05] question I ask now. We need to know what
[2:12:09] triggered all this. What was this mental
[2:12:12] health crisis? And I want to I
[2:12:14] represented the department of mental
[2:12:15] health for about 10 years and as
[2:12:18] assistant attorneys general had numerous
[2:12:21] lawsuits that I handled. And I just want
[2:12:24] to mention that
[2:12:27] this sort of schizophrenic
[2:12:30] burst
[2:12:32] is often we see that is between the ages
[2:12:35] of 18 and 24 and particularly among
[2:12:39] individuals who are highly intelligent.
[2:12:42] And by all accounts, by all reports,
[2:12:46] Isaiah was a highly intelligent student
[2:12:49] with a a life that he was planning to
[2:12:52] have. So, how did this happened that
[2:12:54] night?
[2:12:56] I want to know the answer to that, and
[2:12:57] I'll have a lot more to say about both
[2:13:00] the video and all of the evidence that
[2:13:03] we received because we don't have the
[2:13:04] toxicology report or the autopsy report
[2:13:08] at this point in time. But clearly,
[2:13:12] if this was a sudden mental health
[2:13:15] crisis,
[2:13:17] this is even more of a tragedy than it
[2:13:20] seems to me to be at this point in time.
[2:13:24] I agree that everybody who does wrong
[2:13:29] should be held accountable and I think
[2:13:31] somebody mentioned that at the at the
[2:13:33] microphone. That is the objective.
[2:13:35] That's the objective of the
[2:13:37] investigation
[2:13:39] and the objective of this council.
[2:13:42] The uh there's been a number of comments
[2:13:45] with regard to due process of law and
[2:13:47] due process is a is a big deal and um
[2:13:53] more than a big deal a big right of
[2:13:56] everyone who's involved in any incident
[2:13:58] like that. And that applies both to
[2:14:01] Isaiah and the due process of law that
[2:14:04] he had a right to and the due process of
[2:14:07] law that someone who might have violated
[2:14:10] his right to due process of law has in
[2:14:13] relation to that and we will go forward
[2:14:16] with that.
[2:14:18] Um, I think that there are a number of
[2:14:21] issues that were raised in my mind with
[2:14:24] regard to the video as I watched the
[2:14:26] entire video that was released and you
[2:14:29] know I will have further comments with
[2:14:31] regard to those at what I consider to be
[2:14:34] the correct time. I will note that while
[2:14:37] I appreciate all of the comments that
[2:14:41] were made tonight,
[2:14:43] Dr. Hob's comment is the one that stung
[2:14:46] with me. I don't want you ever
[2:14:48] disappointed in me. And uh like I say,
[2:14:52] I'll have a lot more to say about this.
[2:14:57] >> Thank you, Mayor Prom.
[2:14:59] » Thank you, Mayor Prom.
[2:14:59] Uh yes. Um so, uh I just want to thank
[2:15:03] everyone that came in and spoke tonight.
[2:15:06] Um and um I love the fact that you guys
[2:15:09] are organizing together um as a
[2:15:12] community and really showing out for
[2:15:15] what's important. Um I also want to just
[2:15:19] say to the group uh Citizen for Justice,
[2:15:23] uh I'm glad that you guys have um um
[2:15:27] organization and you have a list of
[2:15:30] things here that I see uh as what you
[2:15:33] call demands. And that's exactly where
[2:15:36] we are at. Um I mean you guys heard me
[2:15:40] talk talk and talk about you know things
[2:15:42] uh here in this format. Um and I'm ready
[2:15:45] to work and ready to look at how we can
[2:15:50] go forward. So, I'm urging the city
[2:15:52] manager to make sure that um he
[2:15:56] uh scratches out time um for the
[2:15:59] individuals that are involved with this
[2:16:01] um um by the deadline that they set. I
[2:16:05] think it's important for us to rearrange
[2:16:07] whatever schedules we have to start
[2:16:10] looking at this um as we go forward. Um
[2:16:14] I have a lot of questions. I have a lot
[2:16:17] of things that I don't I don't
[2:16:19] understand. Um I plan on asking some of
[2:16:22] those questions tonight. Um and again
[2:16:26] within that framework um and I know this
[2:16:30] is not you know but there is a due
[2:16:32] process for everyone involved just like
[2:16:34] council member Meadows says and that is
[2:16:38] really the structure the framework that
[2:16:40] this whole democracy is built on for us
[2:16:43] to go through this process. I know you
[2:16:45] want immediate action. I know you are
[2:16:47] tired of asking for the things you've
[2:16:48] been asking for um and demanding for um
[2:16:51] in regards to everything that's been
[2:16:54] said. And as I've said before, I said I
[2:16:57] wasn't going to be talking, but as I
[2:16:58] said before, when we have everything in
[2:17:01] front of us, we have the process that
[2:17:03] has been um set out by law and we are in
[2:17:08] a situation where we can act upon those
[2:17:10] in this particular setting, in this
[2:17:12] particular role and the particular
[2:17:14] responsibility that we have to the city
[2:17:16] and the community here in the city. Um I
[2:17:19] will uh just do that. So, um I think
[2:17:23] it's um um um
[2:17:28] absolutely imperative that we um
[2:17:32] continue hearing from you, continue
[2:17:35] hearing your stories, your experiences.
[2:17:38] Um and some of you have I worked with uh
[2:17:41] in the past when it comes to some of
[2:17:43] these issues and these issues were here
[2:17:45] before we got here. These issues are
[2:17:46] happening now. These issues going to be
[2:17:48] having here uh after we're gone. So, we
[2:17:51] have to do what we can, why we can, and
[2:17:54] uh as I said before, um it is so much
[2:17:57] more easier to do it with you than
[2:17:58] without you. Thank you.
[2:18:01] >> Thank you, Council Member Singh.
[2:18:13] I uh like many of you shared from the
[2:18:16] podium this evening am sad, angry, and
[2:18:22] sick.
[2:18:30] The video that was released that many of
[2:18:33] us watched uh was incredibly disturbing.
[2:18:38] » [clears throat]
[2:18:40] » From that review, uh, I have submitted a
[2:18:44] set of questions to the city manager and
[2:18:47] city attorney and I hope to gain some
[2:18:50] answers stemming from the release video.
[2:18:55] I want to recognize that
[2:18:58] um the community we are in collective
[2:19:02] pain
[2:19:03] and
[2:19:05] um
[2:19:11] this is going to be a long road ahead. I
[2:19:13] don't pretend that this is um something
[2:19:17] that
[2:19:20] is an easy set of solutions that we are
[2:19:22] faced with.
[2:19:24] Um that this has got to be a collective
[2:19:27] long-term path that we commit ourselves
[2:19:29] to.
[2:19:34] And I want to recognize beyond
[2:19:37] the awful events that happened April
[2:19:39] 15th
[2:19:41] that there is a larger conversation
[2:19:43] which I appreciate the the list that was
[2:19:46] shared uh that recognizes some
[2:19:48] recommendations. Um
[2:19:52] I want to get lend some appreciation to
[2:19:55] the community members I've been able to
[2:19:57] have um a dialogue with over the last
[2:20:00] several days. I look forward and welcome
[2:20:02] that continued dialogue.
[2:20:10] I do also want to share that the
[2:20:12] conversations I've been able to have
[2:20:14] both with city attorneys and and with
[2:20:17] city managers,
[2:20:19] there are personnel questions that I've
[2:20:22] asked.
[2:20:25] Um,
[2:20:29] that's as far as I'm going to go this
[2:20:31] evening
[2:20:35] there's a lot of work to do and again I
[2:20:38] um,
[2:20:42] you know, thank you for coming here and
[2:20:45] I do recognize that uh, especially for
[2:20:49] those with generational trauma that this
[2:20:52] is something that is um,
[2:20:55] continues to be difficult to come here
[2:20:59] on a weekly basis.
[2:21:05] Um I also I do want to do
[2:21:08] [sighs and gasps]
[2:21:09] um a slight mention on the extreme
[2:21:12] weather events that we had last night or
[2:21:14] yesterday. Um the Ingam County Emergency
[2:21:18] Response Sirens, I know I spent time in
[2:21:21] my basement yesterday. I know our
[2:21:23] schools
[2:21:25] um you know students are in the hallways
[2:21:28] for extended amount of time um uh
[2:21:31] sheltering and just want to give a shout
[2:21:34] out uh to our DPW folks and others that
[2:21:37] have been part of the community response
[2:21:39] as it relates to um you know the down
[2:21:43] trees and other property damage. So, um
[2:21:48] while this while we have um
[2:21:53] the really important matters, uh the
[2:21:56] city business um of tending to the
[2:22:00] community on all facets continues. So, I
[2:22:02] want to recognize the city employees
[2:22:04] that are are weighing through that. So,
[2:22:07] with that, that's all I have this
[2:22:09] evening.
[2:22:11] >> Thank you. That brings us to uh
[2:22:13] » Thank you. That brings us to uh
[2:22:13] communication from the city manager, Mr.
[2:22:15] Bellman.
[2:22:16] >> I have none this evening.
[2:22:19] » I have none this evening.
[2:22:20] >> Okay. Um that brings us to item 3.1.
[2:22:25] » Okay. Um that brings us to item 3.1.
[2:22:25] Is there a motion concerning item 3.1?
[2:22:35] I'll move that
[2:22:37] >> Mike.
[2:22:40] » Mike.
[2:22:40] >> I'll move that we go into a close
[2:22:42] » I'll move that we go into a close
[2:22:42] session to discuss and consult with the
[2:22:44] city's attorneys regarding privilege and
[2:22:46] confidential attorney client legal
[2:22:48] correspondence that is exempt from
[2:22:49] disclosure by state law under MCL 15.243
[2:22:53] 243 PN1 PN lowerase G as allowed under
[2:22:58] SE subsection 8 PN1 lowercase H of the
[2:23:02] Michigan Open Meetings Act.
[2:23:04] >> Uh motion by Meadows, second by Whan. Uh
[2:23:08] » Uh motion by Meadows, second by Whan. Uh
[2:23:08] roll call vote, please.
[2:23:10] >> Council member Whan,
[2:23:11] » Council member Whan,
[2:23:11] >> yes.
[2:23:12] » yes.
[2:23:12] >> Council member Meadows. Council member
[2:23:14] » Council member Meadows. Council member
[2:23:14] Singh,
[2:23:15] >> yes. Mayor Prom Griggsby,
[2:23:17] » yes. Mayor Prom Griggsby,
[2:23:17] >> yes.
[2:23:17] » yes.
[2:23:17] >> Mayor Alman,
[2:23:18] » Mayor Alman,
[2:23:18] >> yes.
[2:23:19] » yes.
[2:23:19] >> We are adjourned to close session.
[3:26:02] Okay, we are back in open session. Um,
[3:26:05] [clears throat]
[3:26:08] next item on our agenda is discussion of
[3:26:10] police and fire updates.
[3:26:13] Uh, we'll start with uh, interim Chief
[3:26:15] Newman from the fire department.
[3:26:18] >> Mayor, Council, thanks again for having
[3:26:20] » Mayor, Council, thanks again for having
[3:26:20] me. John Newman, interim chief fire
[3:26:22] department.
[3:26:25] I know that last month I had made
[3:26:28] mention that we had a uh young
[3:26:30] firefighter paramedic who was separating
[3:26:33] after just a matter of a few years to go
[3:26:34] raise a family. Well, Genevieve was born
[3:26:38] uh on Mother's Day. So, I wanted to make
[3:26:41] sure to at least close that
[3:26:42] conversation. Things are successfully
[3:26:44] moving forward for uh Julia and Chris
[3:26:47] and Genevieve. And I just wanted to
[3:26:49] close that piece out right at the
[3:26:51] beginning of the presentation.
[3:27:02] uh [clears throat] following the uh
[3:27:05] Wells Hall event that we had responded
[3:27:08] to uh with MSU Police Department, uh we
[3:27:12] wound up actually having three different
[3:27:14] hazmat events on campus within the last
[3:27:17] one month period. Uh there was the Wells
[3:27:20] Hall event and then there was this uh
[3:27:22] event here at the MSU regional chilled
[3:27:25] water plant. This was actually uh the
[3:27:28] deputy chief on duty that day activated
[3:27:30] this as a metro hazmat response due to
[3:27:33] the fact of the chemical mixtures within
[3:27:35] the building. The MSU employees had
[3:27:38] reported that there was a liquid
[3:27:39] chlorine spill along with a hydrofuloric
[3:27:42] acid spill and that creates a toxic
[3:27:45] corrosive poisonous gas uh chlorine gas.
[3:27:48] They had evacuated with uh minor
[3:27:51] irritation from the gas and then we had
[3:27:55] the response from the metro team to
[3:27:57] actually enter and make sure that we had
[3:28:00] the the spill evaluated so they knew the
[3:28:03] content the quantity of the content as
[3:28:05] well as making sure that if it needed to
[3:28:07] be damned or uh mitigated in any way
[3:28:10] they could get that accomplished before
[3:28:13] uh any type of contract uh cleanup
[3:28:15] occurred and also limit any type of
[3:28:17] exposure to anybody else. But it was
[3:28:20] just a uh I had stated at media meetings
[3:28:23] prior that sometimes there is no reason
[3:28:26] for the change in calls or the volumes
[3:28:29] of calls and it just played out that way
[3:28:32] that there were three hazmat calls that
[3:28:34] we responded to within a 30-day period
[3:28:37] on campus.
[3:28:39] Uh the last one I'm referencing as as
[3:28:42] the three the last one was today. Uh
[3:28:44] there was a uh complication today with
[3:28:48] the nitrogen
[3:28:50] gas that's utilized at the chemistry
[3:28:52] building to control environments for
[3:28:53] their
[3:28:55] experiments and studies that they do,
[3:28:57] the graduate students do within
[3:28:58] chemistry building. They utilize uh
[3:29:02] reactive metals in their studies and the
[3:29:06] one thing about those reactive metals is
[3:29:07] they can't be exposed to oxygen and so
[3:29:11] put them in a testing uh cage uh
[3:29:16] container and then they completely
[3:29:18] envelop it with nitrogen to make it an
[3:29:22] oxygen deprived atmosphere. Well, there
[3:29:24] was a complication with that today. they
[3:29:26] were actually running out of nitrogen uh
[3:29:29] with multiple tests going on. So, we
[3:29:31] actually were on site for that in order
[3:29:33] to make sure that we didn't have any
[3:29:34] reactive medical metals uh beginning to
[3:29:39] combust until they had everything
[3:29:41] mitigated and had the uh nitrogen back
[3:29:43] in place. So, that one actually turned
[3:29:45] out to be not so much a concern of the
[3:29:46] gas as the reactive metals that were in
[3:29:49] the building.
[3:29:52] >> [cough]
[3:29:53] » [cough]
[3:29:53] >> The next photo on the next slide just
[3:29:55] » The next photo on the next slide just
[3:29:55] shows two of the two of the staff. Uh
[3:29:58] they're in their one-sizefits-all suits.
[3:30:01] I thought that the uh picture actually
[3:30:04] did justice. The individual on the left
[3:30:06] has a smaller stature than the one on
[3:30:07] the right. uh but yet in the same size
[3:30:09] suit and then they are going to be
[3:30:12] entering that space through that uh door
[3:30:14] there in order to monitor the airspace
[3:30:16] within that room.
[3:30:21] Outside of the report that I had
[3:30:23] presented separately to you, the written
[3:30:25] report that I left for you to just have
[3:30:27] the information without reading all that
[3:30:28] information to you. Uh this page here, I
[3:30:31] added data as you had requested in
[3:30:35] comparison with previous years.
[3:30:38] Now I
[3:30:40] built this basically on a guess. Not
[3:30:42] certain exactly the information that you
[3:30:44] were looking for. But what I want to
[3:30:46] know from you, I need feedback uh from
[3:30:49] you. Is this the data that you are
[3:30:51] looking to obtain and review? Is there
[3:30:54] additional data that you want? Is there
[3:30:56] a different format that you want to
[3:30:58] receive it? We can we can adjust what we
[3:31:01] what we need to do with this.
[3:31:05] Uh you can see within the within the
[3:31:08] report that's in here, I did include in
[3:31:11] there uh mutual aid that was provided
[3:31:13] outside of the city as well as mutual
[3:31:16] aid received within the city. And you'll
[3:31:19] see that those numbers are quite a bit
[3:31:20] different uh over the last three years.
[3:31:28] » Could you could you point to those in
[3:31:29] the bullets the
[3:31:30] >> in the bullet points?
[3:31:31] » in the bullet points?
[3:31:31] >> Yeah. So [clears throat] the
[3:31:32] » Yeah. So [clears throat] the
[3:31:32] >> so if you're down the the uh top half of
[3:31:36] » so if you're down the the uh top half of
[3:31:36] each one is specific to EMS calls and if
[3:31:39] you go to the four bullet points inset
[3:31:42] bullet points and you go towards the
[3:31:44] bottom for 2026 there were 17 EMS calls
[3:31:48] that we responded to outside of the city
[3:31:51] of East Lancing.
[3:31:52] >> Got it.
[3:31:53] » Got it.
[3:31:53] >> And there were two that we received
[3:31:55] » And there were two that we received
[3:31:55] mutual aid within the city for that we
[3:31:56] could not cover.
[3:31:58] >> So there's a big imbalance there. But
[3:31:59] » So there's a big imbalance there. But
[3:31:59] there's a that was just for 2026. If you
[3:32:03] go to 2024,
[3:32:06] >> we had 18 that we responded to and 13
[3:32:09] » we had 18 that we responded to and 13
[3:32:09] that we received assistance for. Much
[3:32:11] closer much closer uh paradigm in there.
[3:32:15] Now 25 is even uh more of a mark
[3:32:19] difference than 26.
[3:32:24] So, if there's a long-term imbalance
[3:32:26] there,
[3:32:28] >> well, we'll know that as we continue to
[3:32:29] » well, we'll know that as we continue to
[3:32:29] move forward collecting that data for
[3:32:31] you.
[3:32:31] >> Yep.
[3:32:32] » Yep.
[3:32:32] >> So, I think I was the one who had asked
[3:32:34] » So, I think I was the one who had asked
[3:32:34] for this year-over-year data.
[3:32:36] >> I would
[3:32:38] » I would
[3:32:38] I would wager that we're going to see a
[3:32:41] shift on that the opposite direction
[3:32:43] come August, September, and October.
[3:32:45] >> Got it. Yep. Okay.
[3:32:48] » Got it. Yep. Okay.
[3:32:48] >> Just with call volume. So these are
[3:32:51] » Just with call volume. So these are
[3:32:51] monthly stats.
[3:32:52] >> Yes.
[3:32:53] » Yes.
[3:32:53] >> Okay.
[3:32:53] » Okay.
[3:32:53] >> Yes. These are specific to April of each
[3:32:56] » Yes. These are specific to April of each
[3:32:56] each year.
[3:32:57] >> So it'll be useful to track that over
[3:32:58] » So it'll be useful to track that over
[3:32:58] the months because it could reverse
[3:33:00] >> and you'll be able to see that see that
[3:33:02] » and you'll be able to see that see that
[3:33:02] as we move forward. And we can do that.
[3:33:04] We we can show comparison with uh six
[3:33:07] month difference as we move forward and
[3:33:10] still equate that with varying years.
[3:33:14] >> Yep. I think this is great. This is kind
[3:33:16] » Yep. I think this is great. This is kind
[3:33:16] of what I was envisioning when I asked.
[3:33:18] Kind of
[3:33:18] >> what you were looking for. All right.
[3:33:19] » what you were looking for. All right.
[3:33:19] Thanks. Uh it's been interesting looking
[3:33:22] at the data. One of the items that I had
[3:33:26] discussed with Mr. Bellman today during
[3:33:29] our face toface was uh we had a response
[3:33:33] uh that we provided outside of the city
[3:33:36] with uh automatic aid to BA Township for
[3:33:39] the fire at village uh village at
[3:33:42] Chandler Crossing.
[3:33:44] And one of the things that was
[3:33:45] identified
[3:33:47] with that event alone was
[3:33:51] the frequency that we are working with
[3:33:54] those fire events with Meridian
[3:33:57] Township, Bath Township and making sure
[3:34:00] that we have policies, tasks,
[3:34:05] uh,
[3:34:06] directives that are given over radio
[3:34:08] communication that everything is equal
[3:34:11] and mirrors each other. So any changes
[3:34:13] or differences that there might be with
[3:34:15] a different department, we need to make
[3:34:16] sure that our training reflects that
[3:34:19] information and we bring things in in
[3:34:22] line so that everybody is working off
[3:34:24] the same page.
[3:34:26] Now that that's been identified, we will
[3:34:28] be working towards holding joint
[3:34:30] training sessions together with the
[3:34:33] departments, not just within our own
[3:34:36] department, but with outside departments
[3:34:37] and bring that together and try to marry
[3:34:39] those those tasks and those services
[3:34:41] together.
[3:34:43] But outside of that,
[3:34:45] uh that's a brief bullet point of what
[3:34:48] we've been doing at the fire department
[3:34:49] for the last month. Uh we do have
[3:34:53] testing for one new higher position
[3:34:57] uh next
[3:34:59] week. Yes, next week. So we will be
[3:35:02] doing the written and the physical
[3:35:03] agility and then we will be holding uh
[3:35:06] the oral interviews after that to fill
[3:35:08] that one position. So we are actively
[3:35:10] working forward to get that position
[3:35:12] filled.
[3:35:13] >> Questions for Mr. Newman, Mr. Willen.
[3:35:16] » Questions for Mr. Newman, Mr. Willen.
[3:35:16] >> Um maybe it's a more of a comment. I
[3:35:19] » Um maybe it's a more of a comment. I
[3:35:19] actually had um someone talked to me
[3:35:22] about the fire up in Bath and it was
[3:35:24] very imp they they were very impressed
[3:35:26] with the multi-
[3:35:28] unit where different counties, different
[3:35:30] cities, the fact that everyone worked
[3:35:32] really well together that helps us if we
[3:35:35] have an issue also. Mhm.
[3:35:36] >> So I think the coordination with within
[3:35:40] » So I think the coordination with within
[3:35:40] the departments is impressive and I'm
[3:35:42] glad for that. Thank you.
[3:35:44] >> I do have a comment if I can. I just
[3:35:47] » I do have a comment if I can. I just
[3:35:47] want to I really want to compliment uh
[3:35:50] you on on bringing these departments
[3:35:53] together in a training for training. I
[3:35:56] mean, that was one of the issues I want
[3:35:58] to say. I don't remember how many years
[3:35:59] ago it was when we talked about
[3:36:02] combining Meridian Township and East
[3:36:04] Lancing's uh fire departments. Uh there
[3:36:08] was a huge disparity in training at that
[3:36:10] point in time. And obviously, our fire
[3:36:13] department responds [clears throat] to
[3:36:15] things like a hazmat uh issue that other
[3:36:19] departments locally probably don't have
[3:36:21] to train for. So, uh, having that joint
[3:36:24] training, I think, is extremely
[3:36:26] important and also means that we'll
[3:36:29] have, uh, equally trained individuals
[3:36:31] responding because we're going to be
[3:36:33] back up or
[3:36:34] >> right,
[3:36:34] » right,
[3:36:34] >> first in on, you know, any number of
[3:36:37] » first in on, you know, any number of
[3:36:37] things over the years. So, my
[3:36:38] compliments to you and getting that
[3:36:40] done. That was great,
[3:36:42] >> Mr. Griggsby.
[3:36:44] » Mr. Griggsby.
[3:36:44] >> Yeah, he just stole all my thunder. Uh,
[3:36:47] » Yeah, he just stole all my thunder. Uh,
[3:36:47] literally words out of my mouth. Um, I
[3:36:50] thank you for for doing this. I I just
[3:36:52] want to be appreciative of the work that
[3:36:55] it takes for you to kind of get prepared
[3:36:56] for this, present to us, get this
[3:36:59] information, get do the work that's not,
[3:37:01] you know, that's not necessarily in
[3:37:02] front of people. And I just want to ask
[3:37:04] you in these presentations, do you feel
[3:37:08] like the work you put into it, the
[3:37:09] energy and the time that uh the benefit
[3:37:12] of doing this going forward is something
[3:37:15] that's advantageous of your time and um
[3:37:18] in and in in the frequency that we were
[3:37:20] doing it in. Does that make sense?
[3:37:24] » I do. I mean, it's a it it does take
[3:37:27] some time, but the part of that is it
[3:37:29] has been done in the past. So building
[3:37:32] the foundation to move forward to be
[3:37:33] able to continue to glean the
[3:37:34] information over and over and over. Once
[3:37:36] the system's built, it should flow and
[3:37:38] we'll be able to gather that information
[3:37:42] as we need it, not just on a on a report
[3:37:45] basis to you once a once a month.
[3:37:47] >> Yeah, that's that's my concern. I just
[3:37:49] » Yeah, that's that's my concern. I just
[3:37:49] want to really make sure I know I
[3:37:50] benefit tremendously with just learning
[3:37:52] so much of some of the inner workings
[3:37:54] and some of the data that's been
[3:37:56] presented. But I just want to make sure
[3:37:58] on your side that you also feel that
[3:38:01] this is a good investment for something
[3:38:02] that you're creating in the system.
[3:38:04] >> I'm finding information that I'm
[3:38:06] » I'm finding information that I'm
[3:38:06] utilizing on my in my own collection of
[3:38:10] data. So there's there's pieces that I'm
[3:38:12] looking at myself that I'm starting to
[3:38:15] collect that not necessarily are going
[3:38:17] to mean anything currently, but they may
[3:38:19] over time. But being able to see that
[3:38:20] and and identify that, well, that's
[3:38:22] something I didn't know.
[3:38:24] >> Yeah. Maybe it'll give us some benefit
[3:38:26] » Yeah. Maybe it'll give us some benefit
[3:38:26] down the road.
[3:38:27] >> Absolutely. Thank you,
[3:38:29] » Absolutely. Thank you,
[3:38:29] >> Council Member Singh.
[3:38:31] » Council Member Singh.
[3:38:31] >> Yeah. So, it's also, I think, helpful
[3:38:33] » Yeah. So, it's also, I think, helpful
[3:38:33] for the public to see trends. Um, it's
[3:38:35] helpful for all of us to see trends over
[3:38:37] time. And I'm looking at uh pretty steep
[3:38:41] uptick in overall EMS calls in April 26
[3:38:44] relative to April 25 and potentially al
[3:38:47] also April 24. It'll be interesting to
[3:38:49] see if that holds up over over the
[3:38:51] months,
[3:38:51] >> right? and see what see what changes as
[3:38:53] » right? and see what see what changes as
[3:38:53] we move forward.
[3:38:54] >> Yeah. And I think that's real important
[3:38:56] » Yeah. And I think that's real important
[3:38:56] for the community to be able to see also
[3:38:58] that the the burden on the fire
[3:39:00] department keeps growing. So,
[3:39:01] >> agreed. Agreed.
[3:39:03] » agreed. Agreed.
[3:39:03] >> So, thank you for your presentation.
[3:39:05] » So, thank you for your presentation.
[3:39:05] >> Thank you for your time.
[3:39:05] » Thank you for your time.
[3:39:06] >> All right. Thanks, Chief. Good night.
[3:39:11] Okay.
[3:39:12] Chief Brown and Assistant Chief Craft
[3:39:16] and Captain O'Hario, welcome.
[3:39:29] Good evening, Mayor Alman, Mayor Potm
[3:39:31] Gri Griggsby, and council members. Thank
[3:39:34] you for the opportunity to provide an
[3:39:36] update on several important initiatives
[3:39:38] within the East Lancing Police
[3:39:39] Department. Tonight, I will briefly
[3:39:41] discuss hiring and promotions, training
[3:39:43] initiatives, technology and transparency
[3:39:46] efforts, department activity, and
[3:39:48] community engagement. I am pleased to
[3:39:50] announce the hiring of our newest police
[3:39:52] officers, Officer Washington and Officer
[3:39:54] Mosby, as well as the promotion of
[3:39:56] Sergeant Woodruff. We also had one
[3:39:58] individual start last week, Officer
[3:40:00] Kendall Souls. I will be introducing
[3:40:03] these new officers to you at the June
[3:40:05] discussion only meeting. I was planning
[3:40:07] to introduce them tonight, but Officer
[3:40:09] Mosby had a military um obligation.
[3:40:12] Currently, the department has 55
[3:40:15] um budgeted officers and we're currently
[3:40:18] staffed at 47. We have one officer in
[3:40:20] the Washington Police Academy and five
[3:40:22] other conditional offers extended to
[3:40:25] potential candidates.
[3:40:27] Training continues to be a major
[3:40:29] priority from our department. Last week,
[3:40:31] our personnel participated in a two-day
[3:40:33] training led by Joe Samaro. He is a
[3:40:36] nationally recognized speaker. We
[3:40:38] actually had two two-day sessions of
[3:40:40] training that focused on deescalation,
[3:40:42] trauma recognition, and mental
[3:40:44] resilience.
[3:40:48] As you're already aware, our command
[3:40:50] staff completed training with Dr. Ike
[3:40:52] McKinnon focused on ethical policing,
[3:40:54] building trust, and professionalism in
[3:40:56] leadership. And that same training is
[3:40:58] now scheduled for all nonsupervisory
[3:41:01] police personnel in July of 2026.
[3:41:04] Lastly, all of our personnel completed
[3:41:06] implicit bias training with Darnell
[3:41:08] Blackbird and we're already looking into
[3:41:11] 2027 and looking to bring nationally
[3:41:14] recognized speakers like we'd done in
[3:41:16] 2026.
[3:41:17] The department continues to invest in
[3:41:19] technology that improves efficiency,
[3:41:21] accountability, transparency, and
[3:41:23] officer safety. We're currently working
[3:41:25] with Axon on the development and
[3:41:27] implementation of Axon standards. As
[3:41:30] you've heard before, this platform will
[3:41:31] help us streamline use of force
[3:41:33] reporting and complaint tracking. We
[3:41:36] still have a go live date for summer of
[3:41:38] 2026. Our team continues to meet with
[3:41:40] Axon representatives on a weekly basis
[3:41:43] to make sure that the system is
[3:41:44] customized for our department needs and
[3:41:46] best practices.
[3:41:48] The next slide will provide a snapshot
[3:41:50] of department activity comparing March
[3:41:52] of 2026 to April of 2026 as well as a
[3:41:56] yearover-year comparison from April of
[3:41:58] 25 to April of 26. So compared to March
[3:42:02] of 26, in April we had an increased
[3:42:09] by 32 and OWI arrest increased from 5 to
[3:42:13] 9. And then comparing those same numbers
[3:42:16] to April of 2025,
[3:42:18] we had calls increase by 132, traffic
[3:42:22] stops by 74, and a slight decrease in
[3:42:24] OWI arrests. In April, we had six
[3:42:28] warnings for loud exhaust on vehicles,
[3:42:31] and one citation was issued for loud
[3:42:33] exhaust.
[3:42:35] Community engagement continues to be one
[3:42:37] of our priorities and over the past
[3:42:38] several months, our officers and staff
[3:42:40] have have participated in numerous
[3:42:42] community events and outreach
[3:42:44] initiatives. Some of those recent
[3:42:46] examples include our participation in
[3:42:49] the Kuanas egg hunt at Patre Park and
[3:42:52] our attendance at the Tech Ford men of
[3:42:54] color recruiting event which occurred um
[3:42:57] or highlighted careers in trades,
[3:42:59] technology, and public service.
[3:43:01] We also had a successful completion of
[3:43:03] our 2026 Citizen Police Academy where we
[3:43:06] had 19 individuals um graduate.
[3:43:10] Even during periods of staffing shortage
[3:43:13] shortages and increased demands for
[3:43:15] service, our team continues to
[3:43:17] prioritize public safety and community
[3:43:19] partnership. Our community expects when
[3:43:21] they call 911 that they'll receive
[3:43:23] quality service in a timely manner. One
[3:43:26] example of this is um over the last
[3:43:28] month we've had two separate swatting
[3:43:30] calls at the East Lancing High School.
[3:43:32] These incidents um very quickly absorb
[3:43:34] all of our resources and often require
[3:43:37] assistance from other agencies. And so
[3:43:39] even with staffing shortages um we
[3:43:42] responded to those calls and um had a
[3:43:46] successful end to those. So again, thank
[3:43:48] you for the opportunity to provide this
[3:43:50] update and I'd be happy to answer any
[3:43:51] questions that you may have. questions
[3:43:54] for the chief.
[3:43:55] >> Mr. Griggsby.
[3:43:56] » Mr. Griggsby.
[3:43:56] >> Yes, thank you. Uh thank you for the
[3:43:58] » Yes, thank you. Uh thank you for the
[3:43:58] report and thank you for all coming in
[3:44:01] tonight. Um um as you know uh we have uh
[3:44:06] a big community um incident in our uh
[3:44:10] that we are dealing with that you're
[3:44:13] dealing with we're all dealing with and
[3:44:15] I had a few questions um and um you know
[3:44:19] these are questions that I think
[3:44:22] hopefully can start giving um at least
[3:44:25] me um some understanding about what I
[3:44:28] don't know and how it works from your
[3:44:30] perspective.
[3:44:32] um in a baseline way. And I apologize if
[3:44:36] my question
[3:44:38] questions are um I don't know not the
[3:44:42] best questions. So work with me here uh
[3:44:44] in regards to that. But
[3:44:47] um my first question is
[3:44:50] can you walk me through
[3:44:52] like the deadly force policy like in
[3:44:55] plain language as best you can you know
[3:44:57] specifically to what must officers
[3:44:59] reasonably believe
[3:45:02] before deadly force is authorized.
[3:45:05] >> Um I just don't know how that works.
[3:45:07] » Um I just don't know how that works.
[3:45:08] >> Sure. Again, we can't get into specific
[3:45:10] » Sure. Again, we can't get into specific
[3:45:10] details of the case, but broadly, um,
[3:45:12] first of all, I want to draw attention
[3:45:14] that all of our policies and procedures
[3:45:16] are accessible to the public. They are
[3:45:18] on our website. They're part of our
[3:45:20] transparency page. Um, we have quite a
[3:45:23] few policies and they're all accessible.
[3:45:25] Um, in terms of our deadly force policy,
[3:45:30] I first want to reiterate that all of
[3:45:32] our response to resistance is governed
[3:45:34] by case law, and that's Graham versus
[3:45:36] Connor. Um so East Lancing Police
[3:45:39] Department's uh officers are trained to
[3:45:42] um assess three key items
[3:45:46] um before making a decision to use
[3:45:47] deadly force. And those three prongs are
[3:45:51] the severity of the crime, whether
[3:45:53] there's an immediate threat to the
[3:45:54] public or to officers, and whether
[3:45:57] there's ex um active resistance or
[3:45:59] flight. And so that is what guides that
[3:46:02] deadly force language.
[3:46:06] >> Okay. Um
[3:46:09] » Okay. Um
[3:46:09] um I have some more questions. I don't
[3:46:11] know if you guys have follow-ups. Can I
[3:46:12] go ahead and keep Okay. Um so
[3:46:18] can you help me understand? I'm trying
[3:46:21] to distinguish between a person that is
[3:46:24] armed and a person that presents
[3:46:27] immediate threat. I don't know if
[3:46:28] there's a proximity thing. I don't know
[3:46:30] if there's, you know, a level of the
[3:46:33] scenario or the or weapon or how can you
[3:46:37] can you help me understand
[3:46:39] um
[3:46:41] at least how officers are trained or
[3:46:42] what the policy may be in regards to
[3:46:46] and I know some of this is very
[3:46:48] situational and there's a little bit of
[3:46:50] discretion involved with some of it I
[3:46:52] would assume I guess with how that
[3:46:54] works.
[3:46:56] >> I can answer part of that question. Um
[3:46:59] » I can answer part of that question. Um
[3:46:59] the our our officers are trained to
[3:47:01] assess each situation uh as it evolves.
[3:47:04] Um and they take in that Graham v.
[3:47:06] Connor uh case law into consideration
[3:47:08] which they have had training on. Um our
[3:47:11] officers all exceed the MCO's minimum
[3:47:13] standard of training uh which is also
[3:47:15] publicly available on the MCO's website
[3:47:17] as well. Um but again just to reiterate
[3:47:19] that uh to your question as you pose it,
[3:47:22] they do take in the severity of the
[3:47:24] crimes that they are investigating or
[3:47:26] responding to. um the knowledge that
[3:47:28] they actually have when they interact
[3:47:30] with anybody. Uh it's not hindsight
[3:47:32] 2020. They are not judged on that. They
[3:47:35] have to only what they know at the
[3:47:37] actual time. Uh the immediiacy of the
[3:47:39] threat uh not only to officers but to
[3:47:41] the public and other people out in the
[3:47:44] public and then just the um again act of
[3:47:47] resistance or flight um of any person
[3:47:50] that they deal with. So that's really
[3:47:52] how they address that situation and as
[3:47:54] you said it is very situational. they
[3:47:56] have to take in the totality of the
[3:47:57] circumstances um with the information
[3:48:00] that they know and at times in law
[3:48:01] enforcement you have to make
[3:48:02] split-second decisions with very limited
[3:48:05] information um and so that's how the
[3:48:07] court views it again weighing very
[3:48:09] heavily on the factors outlined within
[3:48:11] that Supreme Court case of Grahamby
[3:48:13] Connor
[3:48:14] >> uh thank you and I know we have
[3:48:16] » uh thank you and I know we have
[3:48:16] independent investigation that's going
[3:48:18] to look at all this and and and whatnot
[3:48:21] but one of the most confusing things
[3:48:23] from the video is the the
[3:48:27] and I'll just say plain like there's
[3:48:29] there's officers who are looking to do
[3:48:31] non-lethal and then there's the lethal
[3:48:34] aspect of that. And I I'm not quite
[3:48:37] sure, you know, how that works in a live
[3:48:39] situation as a person that sees this
[3:48:41] video and sees two different types of
[3:48:44] levels of response. And I I'm just
[3:48:47] curious if if with respect to the
[3:48:50] investigation if that could be addressed
[3:48:53] or not.
[3:48:54] Unfortunately, it can't be addressed. We
[3:48:56] haven't interviewed officers and so we
[3:48:58] don't know um the reasons for what they
[3:49:01] did at the time of the incident. So
[3:49:02] again, we can't speak to the specific
[3:49:05] case. Um those are questions that would
[3:49:08] have to be answered by the Michigan
[3:49:09] State Police.
[3:49:13] » Okay.
[3:49:15] Um
[3:49:16] and this may be similar. So, can you do
[3:49:19] you have a general timeline of when EMS
[3:49:22] was requested to the scene? Um, and the
[3:49:25] timeline when the medical aid was
[3:49:28] actually rendered because I from the
[3:49:30] video it looked like there there was a a
[3:49:33] a timeline thing there, but then in the
[3:49:36] other footage it just seems like it
[3:49:38] didn't match up. So, I'm just curious if
[3:49:40] you have that information just yet with
[3:49:43] kind of understanding when we had were
[3:49:46] able to render aid to the individual
[3:49:48] involved.
[3:49:49] >> So, again, just speaking broadly, not to
[3:49:51] » So, again, just speaking broadly, not to
[3:49:51] the specific case, the East Lancing
[3:49:53] Police Department for um policy on
[3:49:56] rendering aid says that we need to make
[3:49:59] sure that the scene is stable before
[3:50:01] medics can render aid to any individual.
[3:50:05] And so um again, broadly speaking, that
[3:50:08] is what our policy says.
[3:50:15] » Okay,
[3:50:19] that's that's all I have for now.
[3:50:23] >> Further questions? Council member Singh.
[3:50:30] Um, [clears throat]
[3:50:31] I just want to build some understanding
[3:50:34] on the during the the released footage
[3:50:39] last week that a lot of the public has
[3:50:42] taken in. Um, I think you have language
[3:50:45] that talks about the um internal
[3:50:48] investigation or internal review. Um,
[3:50:53] what and I I know I privately asked this
[3:50:55] question as well. want to reflect that,
[3:50:57] but I think it's important to understand
[3:50:58] what at what point with the independent
[3:51:01] investigation of the Michigan State
[3:51:03] Police,
[3:51:04] um the timeline of that internal review.
[3:51:08] >> Yeah, that's a good question. Um
[3:51:09] » Yeah, that's a good question. Um
[3:51:09] standard protocol for East Lancing
[3:51:11] Police Department is that an internal
[3:51:13] investigation into any critical incident
[3:51:16] will occur sometime after the Michigan
[3:51:18] State Police completes their
[3:51:19] investigation.
[3:51:22] And then is there when you are
[3:51:25] conducting an internal review of
[3:51:27] something, what how long does that
[3:51:28] typically take the ELPD?
[3:51:32] >> So I think our last critical incident
[3:51:34] » So I think our last critical incident
[3:51:34] that was reviewed um comparable in size
[3:51:37] would be the Meyer shooting and I wasn't
[3:51:40] around during that time. So I'm looking
[3:51:41] to Adrian if he remembers. I
[3:51:44] >> it took at a minimum of several months.
[3:51:46] » it took at a minimum of several months.
[3:51:46] So we only had one investigator looking
[3:51:48] into that at that in that critical
[3:51:50] incident and that didn't uh that
[3:51:52] incident was not as complex as this one
[3:51:54] is.
[3:51:56] >> And then you internal investigator. Can
[3:51:58] » And then you internal investigator. Can
[3:51:58] you explain to me how that works within
[3:52:00] the police department
[3:52:02] >> in regards to just
[3:52:03] » in regards to just
[3:52:03] >> do you have a separate position that's
[3:52:05] » do you have a separate position that's
[3:52:05] an internal investigator or is it
[3:52:07] someone amongst administrative
[3:52:10] officers? I don't
[3:52:12] >> no. So yes, in this instance, it would
[3:52:14] » no. So yes, in this instance, it would
[3:52:14] probably be an administration uh team
[3:52:16] member that is doing that level of
[3:52:18] internal investigation. Correct. For a
[3:52:20] smaller uh internal investigation,
[3:52:22] sometimes they're handled at the shift
[3:52:23] level. So a sergeant may do a very minor
[3:52:25] internal investigation. Um if it rises
[3:52:27] above that, a lieutenant might do it
[3:52:29] like a shift lieutenant. U but in this
[3:52:31] instance, due to the magnitude of the uh
[3:52:33] incident, um probably going to be one of
[3:52:35] the administrators.
[3:52:37] And then you mentioned in the response
[3:52:39] to um our mayor prom's question
[3:52:43] um in terms of our hieres um they all
[3:52:48] exceed MOOL's
[3:52:51] um what does that mean is that passing
[3:52:52] the exam exceed standards what does that
[3:52:55] mean
[3:52:56] >> yeah so MLOS has a minimum standard um
[3:52:58] » yeah so MLOS has a minimum standard um
[3:52:58] and all of our ELPD officers are trained
[3:53:00] at the MCO's minimum standard for
[3:53:02] lensure and firearms and officers
[3:53:04] response to resistance is guided at case
[3:53:07] law. So, MOS has minimum standards that
[3:53:09] are on their website um particularly for
[3:53:11] the licensing uh the amount of academy
[3:53:13] that they have to go through um and so
[3:53:15] on and so forth. Um there are new
[3:53:17] standards for continuing uh education
[3:53:20] that MCOLO's just put in place back in
[3:53:22] 2024 as a pilot program. Um and again,
[3:53:25] all of that is publicly available and we
[3:53:27] could share it with you if you want. We
[3:53:28] can get copies for you if that's what
[3:53:30] you would like. Um but that information
[3:53:32] is there. um the East Lancing Police
[3:53:34] Department, the MCO standards is a
[3:53:36] minimum. Uh all of our officers exceed
[3:53:38] that minimum.
[3:53:40] >> And then the the new curriculum that you
[3:53:43] » And then the the new curriculum that you
[3:53:43] are referencing by Moos, um what
[3:53:47] percentage of our current 47 officers
[3:53:50] have been a part of that recent update
[3:53:54] in curriculum or standards?
[3:53:56] >> All of them have to be per Mult. So they
[3:53:59] » All of them have to be per Mult. So they
[3:53:59] all they've all been hired since 2024 or
[3:54:02] they
[3:54:02] >> they all have to go through the
[3:54:03] » they all have to go through the
[3:54:03] standards. These standards are set for a
[3:54:05] year. So there's like a bank for 2024.
[3:54:07] They have to meet all the standards and
[3:54:09] then there's a bank of education that
[3:54:11] they have to meet in 2025 and so on and
[3:54:13] so forth.
[3:54:13] >> Okay. So
[3:54:14] » Okay. So
[3:54:14] >> in regards to 2026, you have the whole
[3:54:17] » in regards to 2026, you have the whole
[3:54:17] year to work on it.
[3:54:18] >> So officers are going through that right
[3:54:20] » So officers are going through that right
[3:54:20] now.
[3:54:21] >> Okay. And then what beyond MCOs's what
[3:54:25] » Okay. And then what beyond MCOs's what
[3:54:25] additional training which I I recognize
[3:54:28] as you've referenced it's on your
[3:54:30] website um additional policy or training
[3:54:34] policies that officers go through
[3:54:38] >> like deescalation we purposed a bunch of
[3:54:40] » like deescalation we purposed a bunch of
[3:54:40] dollars for other trainings in the last
[3:54:43] eight months or six seven months.
[3:54:46] >> Are you asking beyond the ones that I
[3:54:47] » Are you asking beyond the ones that I
[3:54:47] mentioned in the presentation?
[3:54:49] >> Yes. So again to your um question
[3:54:52] » Yes. So again to your um question
[3:54:52] regarding policies, first of all, we
[3:54:54] have a software system where all of our
[3:54:56] policies are at and all of the officers
[3:54:58] are required to sign off on those
[3:55:00] electronically that they understand
[3:55:02] them. So that's part of training and
[3:55:04] then we do an annual training each year
[3:55:06] in either January, February or March. Um
[3:55:09] each of the officers or sworn personnel
[3:55:12] have to go through three full days of
[3:55:14] training. That includes everything from
[3:55:17] first aid, CPR. Um we also do taser
[3:55:21] training. Um we do deescalation
[3:55:25] um health and wellness resilience. The
[3:55:28] topics for those change um from year to
[3:55:30] year, but again we do a wide variety of
[3:55:33] training during that annual training.
[3:55:35] And then officers additionally go to
[3:55:38] training for which they um it might
[3:55:41] apply to a specific position that
[3:55:43] they're in. So for example, our K9
[3:55:44] officers attend K9 training both on a
[3:55:47] monthly basis and then again annually.
[3:55:50] Um we have bicycle officers and they go
[3:55:52] to specific training. So again, all of
[3:55:54] our officers get very specific training
[3:55:57] each year and then if they're
[3:55:58] specialized, they get training beyond
[3:56:00] that. And the crisis intervention uh
[3:56:03] training is that required by MCOs or is
[3:56:05] that an East Lancing PD requirement?
[3:56:08] >> So critical incident training from my
[3:56:10] » So critical incident training from my
[3:56:10] understanding is not required by MCOs
[3:56:12] but that is a priority for our
[3:56:13] department and the last time I checked
[3:56:16] um which was a couple weeks ago we have
[3:56:18] 37 of our officers that are trained in
[3:56:20] CIT. So 37 of the 47 that are
[3:56:25] um and do you are do you have an
[3:56:27] awareness of police departments in Mid
[3:56:29] Michigan that require that? Do we
[3:56:32] require it or it's a priority for the
[3:56:34] department?
[3:56:34] >> It is a priority. We don't have a
[3:56:36] » It is a priority. We don't have a
[3:56:36] requirement.
[3:56:36] >> It's not required. Okay.
[3:56:38] » It's not required. Okay.
[3:56:38] >> We're just locally trying to get
[3:56:39] » We're just locally trying to get
[3:56:40] officers through. From my understanding,
[3:56:41] they only offer that twice per year. And
[3:56:44] so again, because of our staffing
[3:56:46] levels, we're only able to send a couple
[3:56:48] officers to that training at a time. And
[3:56:50] where who hosts the training?
[3:56:53] >> Ingham County.
[3:56:54] » Ingham County.
[3:56:54] >> Ingham County. And I know a number of
[3:56:58] » Ingham County. And I know a number of
[3:56:58] our officers come out of Lancing
[3:56:59] Community College is my understanding.
[3:57:02] And have we had meetings with the
[3:57:05] faculty that conduct some of the
[3:57:07] trainings to um you know talk
[3:57:10] specifically about what we're seeing in
[3:57:12] terms of community needs and what is
[3:57:14] instructed in the classroom.
[3:57:16] >> Yeah. And I'm going to let Adrian speak
[3:57:17] » Yeah. And I'm going to let Adrian speak
[3:57:17] to this because he's very actively
[3:57:19] involved in Lancing Community College
[3:57:21] Police Academy.
[3:57:22] >> I actually teach there. So yes, at the
[3:57:24] » I actually teach there. So yes, at the
[3:57:24] end of every um uh academy there is a
[3:57:27] debrief where chiefs um and high level
[3:57:31] executives do are able to come in and
[3:57:33] kind of critique and provide suggestions
[3:57:35] to the academy. Um the academy standard
[3:57:38] I believe I think I wrote it down on the
[3:57:39] notes for Moos is 590 hours. Uh the LCC
[3:57:45] as an example does well over 700 hours
[3:57:48] of actual educational purposes uh for
[3:57:50] any recruit coming out of LCC. I can't
[3:57:52] speak to any other of themies, but all
[3:57:54] of themies are governed by uh the
[3:57:57] Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement
[3:57:59] Standards MOOLS. Um and so they are all
[3:58:01] overseen by MOOLS. Um and the curriculum
[3:58:04] is actually designed by MOS as well. Um
[3:58:07] they do off curriculum review as well
[3:58:10] but I don't know the specifics on that
[3:58:11] because I haven't interacted with MCOs's
[3:58:13] that directly uh very often. So if that
[3:58:17] answers your question.
[3:58:19] >> Yeah. I mean part of it is I used to do
[3:58:21] » Yeah. I mean part of it is I used to do
[3:58:22] workforce development um uh
[3:58:26] and other professional areas and you
[3:58:29] know a lot of times we would work
[3:58:32] specifically
[3:58:34] um with
[3:58:36] higher ed entities providing the
[3:58:38] training or the degree programs to
[3:58:41] specifically outline needs that we have
[3:58:44] in our or an employer would need to help
[3:58:48] matchmake and develop that curriculum. I
[3:58:51] understand this is a bit different um in
[3:58:53] terms of the standards that are outlined
[3:58:55] by the state very different than an
[3:58:57] engineering degree. So I'm just you know
[3:58:59] balancing what I know professionally to
[3:59:02] you know what
[3:59:03] >> it's a good question and there's a lot
[3:59:05] » it's a good question and there's a lot
[3:59:05] of information on the MCO's web page. If
[3:59:07] you had any questions or needed some
[3:59:09] assistance navigating it I'd be more
[3:59:10] than happy to do that. part of that
[3:59:12] curriculum or the curriculum that MCOLO
[3:59:14] sets forward um formies to be taught is
[3:59:18] on that web page.
[3:59:19] >> Yeah.
[3:59:20] » Yeah.
[3:59:20] >> Thank you for referencing that. I know
[3:59:22] » Thank you for referencing that. I know
[3:59:22] verbally I learn verbally so I
[3:59:24] appreciate this description as I'm sure
[3:59:26] the public does as well.
[3:59:28] >> Um
[3:59:30] » Um
[3:59:30] let's see. I want to go back to um
[3:59:36] um for in this, you know, what we've
[3:59:40] just experienced um as well as
[3:59:43] uh I know you mentioned the Meyer event
[3:59:45] a few years ago. T can you describe to
[3:59:48] me a little bit in terms of how videos
[3:59:51] are compiled? um whether that's from
[3:59:54] fleet or body cam footage or even
[3:59:58] available footage at storefronts.
[4:00:03] » Okay.
[4:00:04] >> The video compiles like in regards to
[4:00:06] » The video compiles like in regards to
[4:00:06] axon body warn camera videos
[4:00:10] >> after an incident that we you know you
[4:00:13] » after an incident that we you know you
[4:00:13] know how does that come together for
[4:00:14] East Lancing Police Department? How do
[4:00:17] you compile a video after a significant
[4:00:19] event?
[4:00:20] >> Yeah, I can walk you through that. So we
[4:00:22] » Yeah, I can walk you through that. So we
[4:00:22] spent hours and hours watching camera
[4:00:25] footage from both the bodywn cameras and
[4:00:28] from the fleet footage and again wanted
[4:00:30] to provide the public with you know as
[4:00:33] much detail as we could in a short
[4:00:35] amount of time. So from our experience
[4:00:37] um again partnering with the Lancing
[4:00:39] Police Department to create this video
[4:00:41] we learned that most agencies narrow the
[4:00:44] video down to about between 10 and 15
[4:00:47] minutes. As you know, our final product
[4:00:50] was just over 22 minutes. And so, again,
[4:00:53] we had to create, you know, a timeline
[4:00:56] using that footage that we have
[4:00:57] available to us. And some of that
[4:00:59] footage was hours and hours in length.
[4:01:03] Um, so again, we tried to provide as,
[4:01:06] you know, much information we could in
[4:01:09] that short amount of time that we were
[4:01:10] able to create for that narrated video.
[4:01:14] And in terms of um you know what would
[4:01:19] and you know heaven forbid we don't go
[4:01:23] back you know through anything like
[4:01:25] we've experienced this this spring but
[4:01:28] um you know in terms of what would cut
[4:01:32] down the time uh to develop a video um
[4:01:37] whether that's reflective back on the
[4:01:39] Meyer case or uh currently what we've
[4:01:42] experienced
[4:01:44] I I think one of the biggest hurdles we
[4:01:46] ran into was just um lack of uh
[4:01:49] technology software be able to put
[4:01:51] something like that together and just
[4:01:52] knowledge and so that's why we kind of
[4:01:53] leaned on regional partners that had
[4:01:55] folks that had some experience and the
[4:01:57] the ability and the software to do that.
[4:01:59] So, um, you know, hopefully we never
[4:02:03] have to come into this type of situation
[4:02:04] again, but we do have folks now that
[4:02:07] we're working alongside our regional
[4:02:09] partners to be able to gain that
[4:02:10] knowledge and, you know, have that
[4:02:12] software available now so that we could
[4:02:15] do a little bit more of it ourselves and
[4:02:16] be a little bit faster, I think.
[4:02:18] >> And is does Axon also do this service?
[4:02:23] » And is does Axon also do this service?
[4:02:23] >> Not to my knowledge, no. And but there
[4:02:25] » Not to my knowledge, no. And but there
[4:02:25] there are vendors that work with local
[4:02:28] police departments.
[4:02:30] >> I'm not aware of any vendors. Yeah.
[4:02:33] » I'm not aware of any vendors. Yeah.
[4:02:33] >> Okay.
[4:02:40] » Mr. Will,
[4:02:41] did you you were making a motion toward
[4:02:43] your microphone?
[4:02:44] >> Yes. Um and we haven't talked about
[4:02:48] » Yes. Um and we haven't talked about
[4:02:48] this.
[4:02:50] Can you help me with the perception
[4:02:53] of a police officer where they would use
[4:02:57] either less lethal or lethal force? What
[4:03:00] would be part of their decision
[4:03:06] based on their perspective
[4:03:08] when is appropriate to use less lethal
[4:03:10] as compared to lethal?
[4:03:12] So again, they would have to refer back
[4:03:14] to their training which um again is
[4:03:16] guided by case law which um we spoke to
[4:03:19] in terms of Graham versus Connor. Um
[4:03:22] that is exactly what they would have to
[4:03:24] rely to make that decision and again
[4:03:26] it's a three-pronged approach. So that
[4:03:28] is the severity of the crime, whether
[4:03:30] there's an immediate threat to the
[4:03:32] officer or to the public and whether
[4:03:34] there's an active resistance or or a
[4:03:36] fight.
[4:03:37] >> Okay. Um, and maybe I need a little
[4:03:41] » Okay. Um, and maybe I need a little
[4:03:41] attitude because I'm gonna ask a
[4:03:42] personal question. We um,
[4:03:46] can I ask Chief why you became a police
[4:03:49] officer?
[4:03:51] You can take a second to think. This is
[4:03:53] an interview. I'm just asking.
[4:03:57] >> Well, I think the answer that I hear
[4:03:58] » Well, I think the answer that I hear
[4:03:58] most from others when we do interviews
[4:04:00] is that they want to help others. Um,
[4:04:04] as you all are aware, I spent 10 years
[4:04:07] or excuse me, 15 years in law
[4:04:09] enforcement and I left and went into the
[4:04:10] private sector and I watched my daughter
[4:04:14] who graduated from the police academy
[4:04:16] and went into um, Lancing Police
[4:04:19] Department and watched her passion and
[4:04:23] love for helping people in the community
[4:04:26] and trying to make her department
[4:04:28] better. And I truly missed that. And
[4:04:32] that's what brought me back into law
[4:04:34] enforcement is I felt like my job as an
[4:04:37] officer wasn't done and that I could
[4:04:40] really help um this police department in
[4:04:43] particular and this community
[4:04:47] um that I knew was struggling. I knew
[4:04:50] coming into this this position that this
[4:04:53] department and this community needed
[4:04:55] change. And I'm honestly trying my best
[4:04:59] to do that every single day that I come
[4:05:01] to work.
[4:05:03] >> Thank you. Um, and I'm sorry, associate
[4:05:06] » Thank you. Um, and I'm sorry, associate
[4:05:06] chief or deputy chief or what's your
[4:05:09] title?
[4:05:09] >> Assistant chief.
[4:05:10] » Assistant chief.
[4:05:10] >> Assistant chief. Do you mind if I ask
[4:05:12] » Assistant chief. Do you mind if I ask
[4:05:12] you, um, what do you look for in new
[4:05:15] officers when you ask them? I'm not sure
[4:05:17] if that's still a question you ask why
[4:05:19] they want to be a police officer. What
[4:05:21] are things you look for? and there's
[4:05:24] lots of people that want to do this job,
[4:05:26] less than before,
[4:05:28] >> but now that there's less people
[4:05:29] » but now that there's less people
[4:05:30] applying, you maybe you have to be more
[4:05:31] discerning. What do you look for in
[4:05:35] police officers?
[4:05:36] >> I think simply just a a passion for
[4:05:38] » I think simply just a a passion for
[4:05:38] public service. Uh folks that want to
[4:05:40] give of themselves to make the community
[4:05:42] better and to, you know, help people on
[4:05:45] their worst day. Um in 27 years, I've
[4:05:48] had I've never had anybody call me up
[4:05:49] and say, you know, hey, I'm having the
[4:05:51] best day ever. uh that's not typically
[4:05:53] the calls that we get. So folks that are
[4:05:55] are willing to to shoulder that and uh
[4:05:58] and and provide quality service in the
[4:06:00] moment and have that passion for helping
[4:06:02] others.
[4:06:03] >> Okay. I had nothing from there.
[4:06:08] » Just a couple I want to u confirm. I
[4:06:12] think you said this earlier so I just
[4:06:13] want to make sure I got this right that
[4:06:15] you know the MCO's policies are the
[4:06:16] minimum policies for every police agency
[4:06:18] in the in the state of Michigan.
[4:06:20] Correct.
[4:06:21] >> Yes. because MCOs governs all of the
[4:06:24] » Yes. because MCOs governs all of the
[4:06:24] agencies within the state and obviously
[4:06:26] um or for those that are not aware there
[4:06:28] are many small agencies that don't have
[4:06:30] the resources that much larger agencies
[4:06:32] have to uh burden and so those the
[4:06:36] policies that MOS makes has to also take
[4:06:39] that into account and encompass what
[4:06:41] those smaller agencies can do. So again
[4:06:43] you are correct it is the minimum
[4:06:44] standard
[4:06:45] >> and the uh to the extent that we have
[4:06:49] » and the uh to the extent that we have
[4:06:49] different policies they are just
[4:06:51] basically expansions of the MCO policies
[4:06:54] perhaps even more detailed than the
[4:06:57] MCO's policies. Is that correct?
[4:07:00] >> Yes that is correct and we are an
[4:07:01] » Yes that is correct and we are an
[4:07:01] accredited agency through the Michigan
[4:07:02] Association of Chiefs of Police as well
[4:07:05] meaning that our standards have been
[4:07:06] looked at thoroughly by outside sources
[4:07:08] and our uh best practice.
[4:07:11] And then I I want to ask you, you know,
[4:07:12] in an officer involved shooting, is
[4:07:15] there a policy which applies as to what
[4:07:19] happens after the event has occurred?
[4:07:23] >> Yeah. So, we've been relying on all of
[4:07:24] » Yeah. So, we've been relying on all of
[4:07:24] our policies and, you know, making sure
[4:07:27] that we're following those on a daily
[4:07:29] basis. There's several policies that
[4:07:31] apply. Again, these are all on the site,
[4:07:32] but there's um a deadly force policy,
[4:07:35] there's critical incident policy, the
[4:07:37] response to resistance policy, a media
[4:07:39] policy. It's a combination of policies
[4:07:41] that we've been following very very
[4:07:43] closely over the last month.
[4:07:45] >> And in uh in an officer involved
[4:07:49] » And in uh in an officer involved
[4:07:49] shooting, there is an investigation that
[4:07:51] takes place after the event has
[4:07:53] occurred. Is that correct?
[4:07:55] >> Yes, that's what we
[4:07:56] » Yes, that's what we
[4:07:56] >> is there a standard policy that applies
[4:07:58] » is there a standard policy that applies
[4:07:58] to that with regard to the officer
[4:08:00] involved.
[4:08:02] >> So there's not very a specific policy
[4:08:05] » So there's not very a specific policy
[4:08:05] that states that, but that has been
[4:08:07] protocol. So that's what we we will be
[4:08:09] following.
[4:08:10] >> And the protocol would be to place the
[4:08:13] » And the protocol would be to place the
[4:08:13] officer on administrative leave.
[4:08:15] >> The the policy or excuse me, the
[4:08:17] » The the policy or excuse me, the
[4:08:17] protocol is for us to do an internal
[4:08:21] investigation sometime after the
[4:08:23] completion of the Michigan State Police
[4:08:25] investigation. Is that what you're
[4:08:27] asking?
[4:08:27] >> I'm asking if the officer involved is
[4:08:31] » I'm asking if the officer involved is
[4:08:31] placed on administrative leave while the
[4:08:33] investigation takes place.
[4:08:36] So the administration um for the
[4:08:38] department has some flexibility in terms
[4:08:41] of what the status of those officers are
[4:08:44] after the completion of the Michigan
[4:08:45] State Police investigation.
[4:08:47] >> Okay. After
[4:08:50] » Okay. After
[4:08:50] >> but during
[4:08:52] » but during
[4:08:52] what happens?
[4:08:53] >> We still have that flexibility.
[4:08:55] » We still have that flexibility.
[4:08:55] >> Okay. And in and when the Michigan State
[4:08:58] » Okay. And in and when the Michigan State
[4:08:58] Police investigation is complete,
[4:09:03] that report is provided to who?
[4:09:08] >> So again, do you want us to speak to the
[4:09:09] » So again, do you want us to speak to the
[4:09:09] specific investigation?
[4:09:15] » Are you asking specific to this
[4:09:17] investigation or just in general?
[4:09:18] >> Any any investigation. So, in general,
[4:09:20] » Any any investigation. So, in general,
[4:09:20] we can speak that um other agencies in
[4:09:23] the county have experienced it where the
[4:09:25] Michigan State Police have completed
[4:09:26] their investigation. They turn it over
[4:09:29] to the Ingram County Prosecutor's Office
[4:09:31] where the prosecutor will then make a
[4:09:33] decision and typically those cases are
[4:09:36] turned over to the attorney general for
[4:09:38] their final review. And that would be
[4:09:40] our expectation that this uh particular
[4:09:43] incident in that circumstance based on
[4:09:46] what we know from Ingam County in the
[4:09:49] past that uh the local prosecutor is
[4:09:52] likely to turn this over to the attorney
[4:09:54] general's office for in for
[4:09:56] >> I think that's a fair expectation.
[4:09:58] » I think that's a fair expectation.
[4:09:58] >> Okay. And uh is there any knowledge as
[4:10:01] » Okay. And uh is there any knowledge as
[4:10:01] to how long those uh reviews typically
[4:10:06] take? We do not.
[4:10:10] >> Do you want me?
[4:10:11] » Do you want me?
[4:10:11] >> Yeah. Could you
[4:10:11] » Yeah. Could you
[4:10:11] >> just from experience they can take uh
[4:10:14] » just from experience they can take uh
[4:10:14] several months upwards of a year.
[4:10:16] >> Okay.
[4:10:17] » Okay.
[4:10:17] >> Or more.
[4:10:18] » Or more.
[4:10:18] >> Or more. Okay. And our expectation would
[4:10:21] » Or more. Okay. And our expectation would
[4:10:21] be that that's the process that we're
[4:10:24] expecting to be followed going forward.
[4:10:27] Is that right?
[4:10:28] >> That is correct.
[4:10:29] » That is correct.
[4:10:29] >> Okay. Thanks. That's all I've got.
[4:10:32] » Okay. Thanks. That's all I've got.
[4:10:32] >> Yeah. Mr. Griggsby.
[4:10:33] » Yeah. Mr. Griggsby.
[4:10:33] >> Uh yes. Um,
[4:10:37] » Uh yes. Um,
[4:10:37] I'm I'm sorry. Is it Lieutenant Lauro or
[4:10:40] is it Sergeant?
[4:10:41] >> That's Captain O'Hario.
[4:10:42] » That's Captain O'Hario.
[4:10:42] >> Captain. Oh, I'm I'm actually sorry
[4:10:44] » Captain. Oh, I'm I'm actually sorry
[4:10:44] about that.
[4:10:45] >> That's okay. [laughter]
[4:10:45] » That's okay. [laughter]
[4:10:45] >> Um, so I know I met with you at the
[4:10:49] » Um, so I know I met with you at the
[4:10:49] deescalation training that we just went
[4:10:52] through and I appreciate you allowing me
[4:10:54] to come in there and and allowing me to
[4:10:57] kind of get a view of that training. But
[4:10:59] you also talked about the other part of
[4:11:02] your job. I think uh that is responsive
[4:11:06] to the community. Is that correct? Or
[4:11:07] can you explain to me what you told me
[4:11:10] what you do when it comes to contact
[4:11:12] with the community?
[4:11:14] >> Yeah. What about community engagement?
[4:11:16] » Yeah. What about community engagement?
[4:11:16] >> Yes. Yes. Is that part of what you do?
[4:11:18] » Yes. Yes. Is that part of what you do?
[4:11:18] >> Yes, that is part of what I do.
[4:11:20] » Yes, that is part of what I do.
[4:11:20] >> Okay. So, and I'm just asking in
[4:11:23] » Okay. So, and I'm just asking in
[4:11:23] general, I just know that with this
[4:11:26] going on and some of the timelines I'm
[4:11:28] thinking that we're going to deal with,
[4:11:30] is there a is there a capacity to
[4:11:33] possibly work with an organized group of
[4:11:37] the community? just talk with them and
[4:11:39] meet with them in a in an appropriate
[4:11:42] type of way in order for us to all be
[4:11:45] working together as opposed to them
[4:11:47] doing this and you guys doing that in a
[4:11:49] way that respects
[4:11:51] um the due process of everything that's
[4:11:54] going on. Is that is that something that
[4:11:57] that we could consider? um and not
[4:12:00] specifically you to your job, but I just
[4:12:02] was thinking about when we talked that I
[4:12:05] didn't realize that there is a capacity
[4:12:07] possibly or opportunity within that um
[4:12:11] um in a way to
[4:12:14] um I mean because look we I mean
[4:12:17] eventually we'll be in a situation where
[4:12:19] we'll be going forward and I think going
[4:12:21] forward uh we have to do it together as
[4:12:24] best we can when we can however we can
[4:12:26] and um I just want to throw throw that I
[4:12:29] guess that abstract idea out to all of
[4:12:32] you. Uh and for the community also to be
[4:12:35] in a situation where they're prepared to
[4:12:38] also want to um have a productive
[4:12:42] going forward eventually when it's
[4:12:44] appropriate time to kind of do that. So
[4:12:46] uh could you respond to that please?
[4:12:48] >> Can I answer that please? So we are
[4:12:51] » Can I answer that please? So we are
[4:12:51] always looking for ways for community
[4:12:52] engagement. Again, the difficulty is
[4:12:54] because there's an open investigation
[4:12:56] that could be several weeks or or up to
[4:12:58] a year. We would be willing to have
[4:13:01] those community type engagement events,
[4:13:04] but it will be difficult because I think
[4:13:06] the community will expect specific
[4:13:09] answers to questions related to this
[4:13:11] case. And so if there's ways to have
[4:13:14] engagement and conversations and, you
[4:13:17] know,
[4:13:19] allow us to get feedback on how to do
[4:13:21] things better, we're always willing to
[4:13:24] make that happen. But again, we wouldn't
[4:13:26] be able to answer any specifics about
[4:13:29] this case.
[4:13:30] >> Yeah. And I and and I understand that
[4:13:32] » Yeah. And I and and I understand that
[4:13:32] and I think to a certain level, a lot of
[4:13:34] people do understand that in the
[4:13:36] community. I I just think um
[4:13:40] maybe in more in a general context as
[4:13:43] far as policy, policy education, policy
[4:13:46] goals, and just having a conversation
[4:13:49] with uh community members who are
[4:13:51] willing to
[4:13:53] learn more about that so then they can
[4:13:54] advocate in a way that is something
[4:13:58] that's in intertwined with kind of the
[4:14:02] department's goals as far as the
[4:14:04] community is concerned and that
[4:14:05] connection. I think that's what I'm
[4:14:07] really asking about. Um, and just that
[4:14:09] appetite for that and really quite
[4:14:11] frankly the the necessity of that for us
[4:14:14] to go forward as a department and the
[4:14:17] community and and being able to start
[4:14:20] eventually a process of healing. So,
[4:14:22] >> so the chief did talk about that and
[4:14:25] » so the chief did talk about that and
[4:14:25] actually was presented in the slideshow.
[4:14:26] We just did graduate 19 members from the
[4:14:29] community uh from the citizens police
[4:14:31] academy and currently our capacity is to
[4:14:33] only host one citizens police academy a
[4:14:35] year because our staffing is so so short
[4:14:37] and so low. Uh we do other community
[4:14:39] engagement events including recruiting
[4:14:41] fairs at LCC which was the techmen of
[4:14:44] colors. We're doing recruiting events uh
[4:14:46] if we have staffing at the glam coming
[4:14:48] up as well. Uh and community engagement
[4:14:50] events where we have tables and we
[4:14:52] interact with people. The Easter egg
[4:14:53] hunt that was talked about in the slide.
[4:14:55] So, we do quite a few, but in regards to
[4:14:57] your specific like education piece, um
[4:14:59] the Citizens Police Academy and there's
[4:15:01] people um that have graduated that were
[4:15:03] in the audience today that have
[4:15:04] graduated from the Citizens Police
[4:15:06] Academy and has been very uh successful
[4:15:08] or eye opening for many. So, if you're
[4:15:10] interested in that, I'd love to have you
[4:15:14] jump in that class, but that will be
[4:15:15] those are always held in the early
[4:15:17] spring winter. Uh and those classes are
[4:15:19] always full.
[4:15:22] >> Thank you. Any further comments or
[4:15:27] » Thank you. Any further comments or
[4:15:27] questions? I had just one question
[4:15:30] uh related to actually the swatting
[4:15:31] incidents. [clears throat] So, you're
[4:15:34] understaffed. Those things are probably
[4:15:36] pretty intensive in terms of the
[4:15:38] response u because you have to be
[4:15:41] prepared for whatever could be going on
[4:15:43] there for real. Could you address a
[4:15:45] little bit how you manage to cover those
[4:15:48] incidents um given your staffing levels?
[4:15:52] So when we do have a drain on staff of a
[4:15:55] major incident like that, um it does it
[4:15:58] does uh pause essentially everything
[4:16:00] that is non-priority or that is a lesser
[4:16:03] priority. Um which causes uh potential
[4:16:06] concern uh that we're aware of. Um and
[4:16:09] if we need to, we call in mutual aid to
[4:16:11] assist us. So uh we have mutual aid
[4:16:13] agreements with all agencies that
[4:16:14] surround us that will come in and assist
[4:16:16] and back us. Some of them will respond
[4:16:18] to the primary scene, in this instance,
[4:16:19] the high school. Others will just kind
[4:16:21] of backfill. Um if there's traffic
[4:16:23] accidents where injuries occur or things
[4:16:25] of that nature, they'll come in. Uh very
[4:16:28] similar to the fire department, you saw
[4:16:30] some of the stats on mutual aid runs as
[4:16:32] well. Um so yes, that's why it is very
[4:16:34] concerning that these swatting
[4:16:35] incidences tie up uh resources that
[4:16:39] could be used for other real emergencies
[4:16:42] as in real occurring emergencies. Um and
[4:16:45] so as we we look at that, we are working
[4:16:47] with uh partners uh including uh larger
[4:16:51] partners, state and federal um because
[4:16:53] some of the swatting uh investigation is
[4:16:55] being collaborated with them to try to
[4:16:58] find out who actually did it. Um and we
[4:17:00] will hold those people accountable um if
[4:17:03] we can prove who they are. So it is very
[4:17:06] serious.
[4:17:07] >> Did the admin have to get involved?
[4:17:09] » Did the admin have to get involved?
[4:17:10] >> Pardon?
[4:17:10] » Pardon?
[4:17:10] >> Did admin have to get involved? So, um,
[4:17:13] » Did admin have to get involved? So, um,
[4:17:13] yeah, to answer your question a little
[4:17:14] bit more specifically, um, so, um,
[4:17:16] Assistant Chief Croft was at the first
[4:17:18] swatting incident as well as the second
[4:17:20] one. Um, so he led that first, um,
[4:17:23] incident command. Um, and again,
[4:17:26] regional partners had to be drawn in to
[4:17:29] to assist with that incident. The second
[4:17:31] one, um, Assistant Chief Craft and I
[4:17:33] responded ourselves, um, again, to make
[4:17:36] sure that, you know, the city was taken
[4:17:38] care of and the high school was safe. Um
[4:17:40] but for the second one, we had enough
[4:17:42] staffing of our own to be able to handle
[4:17:43] it. But again, um Captain O'Hary is spot
[4:17:47] on in terms of the amount of resources
[4:17:48] these take. And you know, it pulls away
[4:17:51] from other incidences that we should be
[4:17:53] responding to. So again, if it's
[4:17:55] something simple as a traffic accident
[4:17:57] in the city, even when there's no
[4:17:59] injuries, you who wants to sit at that
[4:18:01] traffic accident for an hour waiting for
[4:18:04] a cop to arrive. So it definitely, you
[4:18:06] know, depletes and defers our resources
[4:18:10] on hand.
[4:18:11] >> So it's all it's all hands- on deck in
[4:18:13] » So it's all it's all hands- on deck in
[4:18:13] that sort of situation.
[4:18:15] >> Absolutely.
[4:18:17] » Absolutely.
[4:18:17] >> Any further questions? Council member
[4:18:20] » Any further questions? Council member
[4:18:20] Singh,
[4:18:21] >> I just um I this is more directed uh to
[4:18:24] » I just um I this is more directed uh to
[4:18:24] the city manager to work with ELPD. two
[4:18:28] of the items that came from the Citizens
[4:18:32] for Justice talk about police policy. Uh
[4:18:36] numbers three and four. If you could uh
[4:18:39] work with the ELPD team to create, um
[4:18:44] potential options for those two policy
[4:18:46] areas um within the cited legal cases.
[4:18:52] Um
[4:18:54] I'd be interested to see that.
[4:18:59] That's it.
[4:19:00] >> Anything else?
[4:19:03] » Anything else?
[4:19:03] Anything from the city manager that we
[4:19:05] need to hear?
[4:19:06] >> I have nothing.
[4:19:07] » I have nothing.
[4:19:07] >> Okay. Any anything else we need to hear
[4:19:09] » Okay. Any anything else we need to hear
[4:19:09] from
[4:19:11] >> police administration?
[4:19:13] » police administration?
[4:19:13] Thank you for all Thank you for coming
[4:19:15] tonight and for addressing our
[4:19:17] questions.
[4:19:25] » Okay. Okay. So that brings us to item uh
[4:19:27] 4.2
[4:19:29] discussion of proposed 2026 2027
[4:19:32] strategic priorities. I will ask whether
[4:19:35] people are up for forging ahead with
[4:19:38] this.
[4:19:40] >> It's only 133 pages.
[4:19:42] » It's only 133 pages.
[4:19:42] >> What's what's the goal out of this?
[4:19:44] » What's what's the goal out of this?
[4:19:44] Because I know it's been in our budget
[4:19:46] pack. So it'd be good to understand.
[4:19:51] » Yeah. So I'll let the city manager
[4:19:53] address.
[4:19:54] tonight is to review these draft
[4:19:58] um strategic priorities for 2026 27 so
[4:20:03] that ultimately you will adopt them and
[4:20:06] they will become formal um for us to use
[4:20:09] in guiding allocation of city resources
[4:20:13] in the form of property taxes, income
[4:20:15] tax, grants, water sour uh revenues,
[4:20:18] fees and most importantly staff time.
[4:20:21] >> [snorts]
[4:20:24] » Mr. I with with everything going on, I
[4:20:27] haven't had a chance to thoroughly I
[4:20:30] just haven't had a chance to really
[4:20:31] thoroughly go through this and I'm not
[4:20:33] quite sure if I'm the only one um that
[4:20:36] hasn't. Um but I would I would love the
[4:20:39] opportunity to kind of really go through
[4:20:41] this in a way that I can really
[4:20:43] appreciate
[4:20:45] um the 133 pages of information so I can
[4:20:48] better wrap my head around that. Um, and
[4:20:51] so I don't know uh kind of where
[4:20:53] everyone else is with that, but that
[4:20:55] would be something that I would hope we
[4:20:57] could consider.
[4:20:59] >> Others other thoughts?
[4:21:05] I'll just say if if the if the question
[4:21:07] is to defer this to the next um
[4:21:13] discussion only meeting this is that
[4:21:16] would be after the budget has been uh
[4:21:19] approved hopefully [laughter] and if um
[4:21:22] if anything any part of this really
[4:21:25] impacts the decision that we're about to
[4:21:28] make um I guess at the next business
[4:21:30] meeting for uh with regard to the budget
[4:21:33] then we probably should keep going. But
[4:21:36] by the same token, I think it's a good
[4:21:39] idea to give everybody an opportunity to
[4:21:41] really get into this and think about it.
[4:21:45] Some new members were not involved in
[4:21:47] the in the the strategic priorities we
[4:21:50] established two years ago. And uh you
[4:21:54] know, I think it'd be useful to to make
[4:21:56] sure that maybe we have uh a little more
[4:22:00] sort of background information on what
[4:22:02] we were trying to accomplish at that
[4:22:04] time. So,
[4:22:05] >> Council Member Singh, did that answer
[4:22:07] » Council Member Singh, did that answer
[4:22:07] your question? Did you have a follow-up?
[4:22:10] >> I mean, it sounds like the purpose of
[4:22:13] » I mean, it sounds like the purpose of
[4:22:13] tonight's session is just to prepare us
[4:22:16] to vote on the budget and agree with the
[4:22:19] strategic priorities.
[4:22:21] >> So, the purpose tonight is go through
[4:22:23] » So, the purpose tonight is go through
[4:22:23] the proposed 2627
[4:22:27] um and offer any opportunities
[4:22:30] >> priorities or budget. Wait, we
[4:22:32] » priorities or budget. Wait, we
[4:22:32] >> strategic priorities.
[4:22:33] » strategic priorities.
[4:22:33] >> Yeah.
[4:22:34] » Yeah.
[4:22:34] and offer opportunities to amend add
[4:22:39] um priorities that may not have been
[4:22:42] captured or amend some of the ones that
[4:22:44] are being proposed.
[4:22:47] >> So if I understand what you were saying
[4:22:49] » So if I understand what you were saying
[4:22:49] is that we need to go through this
[4:22:52] process in order to stay within
[4:22:55] alignment with our budget decision that
[4:22:57] we have coming up. Is that what you're
[4:22:58] saying?
[4:22:58] >> No, I'm not saying that actually. Uh I
[4:23:01] » No, I'm not saying that actually. Uh I
[4:23:01] think that it is uh related to the
[4:23:03] budget because our priorities you know
[4:23:06] basically establish the budget but the
[4:23:09] establishment of strategic priorities is
[4:23:12] a thing of its own. This is the
[4:23:14] council's priorities. This is not staff
[4:23:16] priorities. you know, hopefully they
[4:23:18] agree with them, but the reality is this
[4:23:21] is us setting the priorities for the
[4:23:24] next two years uh in terms of what our
[4:23:28] expectations would be and and I'll just
[4:23:31] say that in the you know when we
[4:23:34] established the first set of strategic
[4:23:36] priorities
[4:23:38] the it had its own meeting
[4:23:41] basically so that we had an indepth
[4:23:44] discussion on each one of these things
[4:23:46] and frankly it was a big deal and every
[4:23:49] one of the five uh city council members
[4:23:52] made a presentation to the public on one
[4:23:54] of the priorities. So, uh it's changed
[4:23:58] over the years um in some respects, but
[4:24:01] this is an important document
[4:24:04] that u the public I think needs to see
[4:24:08] that we need to spend time with. And uh
[4:24:12] so all I'm saying is we've got a budget
[4:24:14] coming up to the extent that this may
[4:24:17] dictate something in this budget. Then
[4:24:20] maybe we got to spend the time right now
[4:24:23] to to go through this. If it's not, then
[4:24:27] uh we can have it on at a at a meeting
[4:24:31] and spend the whole time digging through
[4:24:34] this and making our comments with regard
[4:24:36] to it. So, I don't know what everybody
[4:24:38] wants to do, but I don't have a problem
[4:24:41] with waiting to do this. I just don't
[4:24:45] want it to impact what we're we're
[4:24:48] required to do, which is to vote on this
[4:24:52] budget. I think by the 29th
[4:24:57] >> 6,
[4:24:58] » 6,
[4:24:58] >> I think it's before that actually the
[4:25:00] » I think it's before that actually the
[4:25:00] third meeting in in May.
[4:25:01] >> Next meeting.
[4:25:02] » Next meeting.
[4:25:02] >> Next Tuesday.
[4:25:03] » Next Tuesday.
[4:25:03] >> Next meeting. The reality though is 98%
[4:25:05] » Next meeting. The reality though is 98%
[4:25:05] of our budgets ba I mean in terms of the
[4:25:07] recommendation
[4:25:09] >> for this year and the staff priorities
[4:25:12] » for this year and the staff priorities
[4:25:12] that you put together is how you built
[4:25:14] the budget because you had staff
[4:25:16] meetings. Yeah.
[4:25:17] >> There's some priorities that are not
[4:25:19] » There's some priorities that are not
[4:25:19] funded.
[4:25:19] >> It's a little
[4:25:21] » It's a little
[4:25:21] >> Yeah, it's a little
[4:25:22] » Yeah, it's a little
[4:25:22] >> it doesn't matter if we do this tonight.
[4:25:24] » it doesn't matter if we do this tonight.
[4:25:24] That's the punch line. Essentially, this
[4:25:25] is us saying
[4:25:28] regardless of this budget that over the
[4:25:31] next two years, this is our expectation.
[4:25:34] These will be our priorities. These are
[4:25:35] the things that we want to accomplish
[4:25:37] and that we need to be working to make
[4:25:40] sure that those are accomplished during
[4:25:41] that time. Doesn't mean we don't add
[4:25:43] things or that other things come up, but
[4:25:47] this is sort of the game plan. So,
[4:25:49] >> Mr. Whan, did you have thoughts on this?
[4:25:51] » Mr. Whan, did you have thoughts on this?
[4:25:51] I thought [clears throat] I did get
[4:25:54] through most of it. I did not get
[4:25:56] through all of it.
[4:25:58] Is there any way we can have a a bridge
[4:26:01] version of the changes?
[4:26:03] >> Is there significant changes from the
[4:26:05] » Is there significant changes from the
[4:26:05] last
[4:26:07] um strategic priorities?
[4:26:08] >> Well, part of my presentation was to
[4:26:10] » Well, part of my presentation was to
[4:26:10] identify those that were being carried
[4:26:13] over
[4:26:14] >> from 2425,
[4:26:16] » from 2425,
[4:26:16] but the other ones are new.
[4:26:19] >> I'm sorry. What? Which ones are new?
[4:26:21] » I'm sorry. What? Which ones are new?
[4:26:21] >> I said part of my presentation would to
[4:26:23] » I said part of my presentation would to
[4:26:24] identify the ones that are being carried
[4:26:26] over from 2425
[4:26:29] and the others are new. [snorts]
[4:26:32] >> And which ones are the new ones?
[4:26:35] » And which ones are the new ones?
[4:26:35] >> I'd be happy to walk through those with
[4:26:37] » I'd be happy to walk through those with
[4:26:37] you this evening. They're not noted on
[4:26:40] the document you have.
[4:26:42] >> Okay. Okay. Um Yeah. I [clears throat]
[4:26:47] » Okay. Okay. Um Yeah. I [clears throat]
[4:26:47] I wish I tried to devote enough time for
[4:26:50] this, but there's a lot of other things
[4:26:52] that can't get in the way. Um, and I do
[4:26:55] app I do appreciate council member Singh
[4:26:58] mentioning that this is kind of a staff
[4:27:01] generated.
[4:27:02] My concern is there's something in there
[4:27:05] that I missed all of a sudden and it's
[4:27:07] like, wait a minute, this is your
[4:27:09] priority. Why aren't you doing this? So,
[4:27:12] um I guess I'm leaning heavily
[4:27:15] on
[4:27:17] our city manager to say that this is
[4:27:20] where
[4:27:22] um this this is where we're heading and
[4:27:25] I just want to make sure I can sign off
[4:27:27] on it. So, I guess between now and next
[4:27:29] Tuesday,
[4:27:31] I will dive into it more. I'm just
[4:27:34] wondering if there's a cliffnotes of
[4:27:36] some of the changes that that we need to
[4:27:39] be aware of. Um because I don't know
[4:27:41] what the I don't know what they were two
[4:27:44] years ago.
[4:27:47] Does that make sense?
[4:27:48] >> Yes, I understand.
[4:27:50] » Yes, I understand.
[4:27:50] >> So, how long would it take for you to
[4:27:52] » So, how long would it take for you to
[4:27:52] present the changes?
[4:27:55] >> I can identify the ones that are
[4:27:59] » I can identify the ones that are
[4:27:59] carryover from prior years. If you want
[4:28:02] me just to highlight those this evening,
[4:28:05] >> I I suggest we do a little bit of work
[4:28:07] » I I suggest we do a little bit of work
[4:28:07] on that front. Does that would are
[4:28:09] people okay with that? Um
[4:28:11] >> highlight the the the carryovers.
[4:28:13] » highlight the the the carryovers.
[4:28:13] That'll get us thinking about it and
[4:28:14] then I suggest that we um just carry
[4:28:18] this over to our next DO meeting so that
[4:28:20] we all have a chance to
[4:28:23] finish the review. Is that
[4:28:28] » I think that's a good way of going.
[4:28:29] >> Mayor Prom.
[4:28:30] » Mayor Prom.
[4:28:30] >> Yes, sir.
[4:28:31] » Yes, sir.
[4:28:31] >> Council Sang.
[4:28:34] » Council Sang.
[4:28:34] >> Okay.
[4:28:35] » Okay.
[4:28:35] >> So, just the floor is yours. uh if I may
[4:28:38] » So, just the floor is yours. uh if I may
[4:28:38] 2026 27 strategic priorities include 60
[4:28:43] goals under six focus areas. Focus areas
[4:28:46] are financial stability that have nine
[4:28:49] goals, strong economy that have four,
[4:28:52] sound infrastructure and environmental
[4:28:54] sustainability have nine goals, safe
[4:28:57] community has 12, sense of place has
[4:29:00] eight, and high performing government
[4:29:02] has 18. So I'm going to just highlight
[4:29:04] the ones um
[4:29:08] that carry over from
[4:29:11] 2425
[4:29:15] and there are under financial stability.
[4:29:20] Goal eight and goal nine carryover from
[4:29:24] the prior strategic priorities
[4:29:28] [clears throat]
[4:29:29] [snorts]
[4:29:30] under the focus area of a strong
[4:29:32] economy. Goal one, goal two,
[4:29:37] and goal three carryover from prior
[4:29:42] strategic priorities.
[4:29:51] under sound infrastructure and
[4:29:53] environmental sustainability.
[4:29:55] Um the opening statement is really
[4:30:00] continuation of 2425.
[4:30:03] Um, goal seven number A and goal number
[4:30:08] two is a continuation as well as goal
[4:30:11] three
[4:30:15] and and
[4:30:17] uh goal four action item L,
[4:30:22] goal six,
[4:30:25] goal seven, and goal eight
[4:30:30] as well as
[4:30:32] goal 10 in that focus area [snorts]
[4:30:37] under the focus area of safe community.
[4:30:45] Those were all new
[4:30:48] under sense of place.
[4:30:51] uh goal one,
[4:30:54] goal two,
[4:30:56] goal five,
[4:30:58] goal six,
[4:31:01] our carryover from 202425.
[4:31:06] And under the final focus area of high
[4:31:09] performing government, goal one,
[4:31:15] goal five,
[4:31:18] goal 7,
[4:31:20] goal 10,
[4:31:24] goal 18, carryover from 24 25.
[4:31:29] [snorts]
[4:31:32] I can send that out in a memo to you too
[4:31:35] if you would like me to [laughter]
[4:31:38] >> I know you have strong recollection and
[4:31:41] » I know you have strong recollection and
[4:31:42] >> so we've had a request to to do that.
[4:31:45] » so we've had a request to to do that.
[4:31:45] >> Okay.
[4:31:45] » Okay.
[4:31:45] >> Um any reactions to that brief overview
[4:31:50] » Um any reactions to that brief overview
[4:31:50] questions or comments?
[4:31:53] >> Mr. Griggsby,
[4:31:54] » Mr. Griggsby,
[4:31:54] >> I just thank you for adjusting. I mean I
[4:31:56] » I just thank you for adjusting. I mean I
[4:31:56] know you
[4:31:56] >> Oh, you're welcome. you had a you had a
[4:31:59] » Oh, you're welcome. you had a you had a
[4:31:59] something probably else in mind and I
[4:32:01] like I said I do apologize that um I
[4:32:04] just didn't thoroughly have a the
[4:32:05] capacity to go through all of this and I
[4:32:08] really want to appreciate it and learn
[4:32:10] up because I you know this I think this
[4:32:12] is important as as council member uh
[4:32:15] Meadows had mentioned um and there was a
[4:32:17] lot of work put into this and I just
[4:32:20] want to make sure that I'm on the same
[4:32:21] page uh as I visit departments and meet
[4:32:26] with people and just kind really make
[4:32:27] sure that I'm understanding
[4:32:30] um how to best serve going forward. So,
[4:32:34] thank you.
[4:32:34] >> Sure.
[4:32:35] » Sure.
[4:32:35] >> And and if I may, the biggest component
[4:32:38] » And and if I may, the biggest component
[4:32:38] of the
[4:32:40] 133 pages is just a recap and kind of
[4:32:43] summary report of the 2425 strategic
[4:32:46] priorities. Um you know, we tried to
[4:32:49] identify in a graphic format those that
[4:32:52] were completed had a check mark. Those
[4:32:55] that were still being made or progress
[4:32:58] being made had an upward arrow and then
[4:33:00] those that no progress was being made
[4:33:02] was a downward arrow. But after that is
[4:33:05] a lot of details that were shared by
[4:33:08] departments identifying specific
[4:33:11] actions, events, programs, services that
[4:33:14] supported
[4:33:16] those summary reports.
[4:33:19] >> Council member
[4:33:20] » Council member
[4:33:20] >> questions. Yeah, just um so as staff was
[4:33:24] » questions. Yeah, just um so as staff was
[4:33:24] going through some of the the fire chief
[4:33:26] that
[4:33:28] um
[4:33:30] is it increasing cost recovery by 3%.
[4:33:33] >> Right.
[4:33:33] » Right.
[4:33:33] >> Is that an achievable goal that staff
[4:33:37] » Is that an achievable goal that staff
[4:33:37] felt comfortable in including?
[4:33:40] >> I believe so.
[4:33:41] » I believe so.
[4:33:41] >> Okay. We chose that.
[4:33:43] » Okay. We chose that.
[4:33:43] >> And then for the
[4:33:46] » And then for the
[4:33:46] um I think there's another one in terms
[4:33:48] of the parks and rock um
[4:33:51] >> reducing [clears throat] the general
[4:33:52] » reducing [clears throat] the general
[4:33:52] fund contribution.
[4:33:53] >> Yeah. By 10%.
[4:33:55] » Yeah. By 10%.
[4:33:55] >> Yes.
[4:33:56] » Yes.
[4:33:56] >> Um do is that achievable?
[4:33:59] » Um do is that achievable?
[4:33:59] >> So we're we're close. When we did the
[4:34:02] » So we're we're close. When we did the
[4:34:02] adjustment at the last meeting of about
[4:34:05] 400,000,
[4:34:06] you know, we were just shy of 10%
[4:34:09] because I think we're 2.6 6 million. So
[4:34:12] that would have been about 520.
[4:34:14] So about 120,000 shy. I thought that was
[4:34:18] a nice attempt. And I'm I know they'll
[4:34:21] continue to work on trying to shave off
[4:34:24] costs.
[4:34:25] >> And and has the uh parks and wreck
[4:34:28] » And and has the uh parks and wreck
[4:34:28] commission
[4:34:30] had any feedback for our director on
[4:34:32] that goal?
[4:34:33] >> Uh not that I'm aware of. I know he was
[4:34:36] » Uh not that I'm aware of. I know he was
[4:34:36] provided the flexibility of how to
[4:34:38] absorb that reduction in 400,000 and I
[4:34:41] know he was going to take it back to the
[4:34:42] advisory board to share with them some
[4:34:44] of his um conceptual approaches. I don't
[4:34:48] know if that's taken place
[4:34:50] >> and and forgive me because I am skimming
[4:34:53] » and and forgive me because I am skimming
[4:34:53] back through the presentation uh
[4:34:59] in term like I'm looking at some of the
[4:35:01] sense of place and this is definitely
[4:35:08] you know one of the best attributes of
[4:35:11] the city of East Lancing but one I would
[4:35:14] argue is in a challenging time right Now
[4:35:19] um
[4:35:20] like when you talk about address
[4:35:22] barriers to participation of community
[4:35:24] outreach and analyzing program
[4:35:26] participation in demographic area is
[4:35:29] that going to be departmentwide
[4:35:31] departmentalwide across the enterprise.
[4:35:35] >> Yeah I I'm sure uh the approach is
[4:35:38] » Yeah I I'm sure uh the approach is
[4:35:38] across departments but it's going to
[4:35:40] focus on you know I know Matt Apostle is
[4:35:42] doing some of that through DMB and
[4:35:44] tracking who comes to events. I know
[4:35:47] parks and wreck and arts have been doing
[4:35:49] that through all of their programs. Uh
[4:35:51] the scholarship that they offer allows
[4:35:54] for those that may not be able to afford
[4:35:57] outright to attend to be able to attend
[4:35:59] and participate in some of those
[4:36:01] programs. So that hits some of the
[4:36:03] points that fall under [snorts] that
[4:36:05] goal
[4:36:06] >> including demographic area, you know,
[4:36:08] » including demographic area, you know,
[4:36:08] and this the whole [snorts]
[4:36:10] equity piece that has become a bad term
[4:36:16] under this federal administration.
[4:36:18] Um, I know once upon a time we talked
[4:36:21] about or at least privately you and I
[4:36:24] had had a conversation about publishing,
[4:36:28] you know, demographic data on our
[4:36:32] workforce,
[4:36:33] >> right,
[4:36:34] » right,
[4:36:34] >> and moving the needle. Um, do we have
[4:36:37] » and moving the needle. Um, do we have
[4:36:37] any of those pieces outlined
[4:36:40] enterprisewide? And I say that's across
[4:36:42] all departments. That's where some I
[4:36:45] mean the work that still needs to be
[4:36:48] done is to um report on it and see if we
[4:36:53] are in fact having positive impact
[4:36:56] through the investments we make either
[4:36:58] through uh DEI
[4:37:01] office and through HR and our
[4:37:04] recruitment efforts, our um training
[4:37:08] opportunities and trying to get um at
[4:37:11] the organizational level, the workg
[4:37:14] groupoup level and the supervisory level
[4:37:16] all aligned with um inclusive
[4:37:20] type activities, policies and um
[4:37:23] behavior
[4:37:25] >> and how like action item D leverage
[4:37:27] » and how like action item D leverage
[4:37:27] mutually beneficial partnerships to
[4:37:29] provide relevant opportunities to
[4:37:31] responsive to that are responsive to
[4:37:34] community needs. Like who's in charge of
[4:37:36] that?
[4:37:37] >> Which one are you talking about?
[4:37:39] » Which one are you talking about?
[4:37:39] >> Sense of place action item D.
[4:37:43] » Sense of place action item D.
[4:37:43] You want to talk? I'm talking.
[4:37:47] It's because of Whan. Whan, we're still
[4:37:49] here.
[4:37:50] >> Is that under which goal? I'm sorry.
[4:37:51] » Is that under which goal? I'm sorry.
[4:37:52] >> Sense of place.
[4:37:53] » Sense of place.
[4:37:53] >> It's on category.
[4:37:55] » It's on category.
[4:37:55] >> So, I'm looking for
[4:37:57] » So, I'm looking for
[4:37:57] >> page in my document here.
[4:37:59] » page in my document here.
[4:37:59] >> Okay. But there's a goal. Is it goal one
[4:38:02] » Okay. But there's a goal. Is it goal one
[4:38:02] item D?
[4:38:04] >> It's after safe community sense of goal
[4:38:07] » It's after safe community sense of goal
[4:38:07] one action item D.
[4:38:10] >> B. D is in dog.
[4:38:12] » B. D is in dog.
[4:38:12] >> Okay. Leverage mutually beneficial
[4:38:15] » Okay. Leverage mutually beneficial
[4:38:15] partnerships to provide relevant
[4:38:17] opportunities that are responsive to
[4:38:20] community needs. Yeah.
[4:38:21] >> It'll be parks and wreck. It'll be, you
[4:38:23] » It'll be parks and wreck. It'll be, you
[4:38:23] know, other departments that do have
[4:38:25] partnerships
[4:38:27] um through our neighbors,
[4:38:31] be it the university,
[4:38:34] be it the downtown.
[4:38:39] Okay.
[4:38:39] >> But I'll get you further clarification
[4:38:41] » But I'll get you further clarification
[4:38:41] if
[4:38:42] >> Well, I guess at the end of the day,
[4:38:43] » Well, I guess at the end of the day,
[4:38:43] you're in charge ultimately.
[4:38:45] >> Absolutely.
[4:38:46] » Absolutely.
[4:38:46] >> All right, I'm done.
[4:38:49] » All right, I'm done.
[4:38:49] >> So, a couple of comments. I like this
[4:38:50] » So, a couple of comments. I like this
[4:38:50] approach. I think I've been through a
[4:38:52] bunch of versions of the strategic
[4:38:54] priorities as Mark was saying earlier
[4:38:56] and I like I like this idea of having
[4:38:59] staff because they've got hands-on every
[4:39:01] day and generating you know ideas and
[4:39:04] then and then we get to sort of
[4:39:07] snapshot them in place. So I I like this
[4:39:10] approach. One of the things that struck
[4:39:12] me during your recitation of the
[4:39:14] carryover is that there's a lot of new
[4:39:16] goals and action items on here. Um, and
[4:39:19] I guess my [clears throat] question is
[4:39:22] whether uh
[4:39:26] whether there's too many or an
[4:39:28] appropriate number or whether it sort of
[4:39:30] dovetailes with what we're doing anyway.
[4:39:31] I don't want I guess my point is I don't
[4:39:33] want people to think that
[4:39:37] we're asking them to go beyond
[4:39:40] what they have the capacity to do.
[4:39:42] That's kind of my question. And so I
[4:39:44] don't know if
[4:39:47] I hope there's a I hope that appropriate
[4:39:49] level of realism is already built in
[4:39:50] here, but I hope as we sort of review
[4:39:53] this that people should feel free to
[4:39:55] say, okay, this this just is too much
[4:39:58] for us or something like that. That's I
[4:40:00] don't know if you want to address that
[4:40:01] comment.
[4:40:02] >> Sure. So that is in part why this
[4:40:05] » Sure. So that is in part why this
[4:40:05] approach was taken. Uh if you recall
[4:40:07] back in 24 in January, departments got
[4:40:09] up and just told you some of the
[4:40:12] challenges and opportunities that they
[4:40:14] faced and then council shaped the 10
[4:40:17] goals that we adopted in 2425.
[4:40:21] This one is one it involved all
[4:40:23] departments. They all have some element
[4:40:26] of goals and act action items in this
[4:40:30] document. Two, they uh tried to focus on
[4:40:33] what they're already working on. Um,
[4:40:36] three, yes, there's 60 goals in here. We
[4:40:40] may not get to them all where we say at
[4:40:42] the end of two years they're complete.
[4:40:43] Some of these goals are going to be
[4:40:45] ongoing um and require continuous
[4:40:48] conversation with council coming back
[4:40:51] about implications
[4:40:53] of i.e. the storm water authority to
[4:40:56] pursue examine setting up a storm water
[4:40:58] authority is going to have multiple
[4:41:00] levels of discussion with council as to
[4:41:03] what does that look like? what is the
[4:41:04] implications financially and how will it
[4:41:07] benefit the city moving forward.
[4:41:10] >> Okay, that's helpful. So, as long as
[4:41:11] » Okay, that's helpful. So, as long as
[4:41:12] people know that not every goal needs to
[4:41:13] be accomplished in, you know, two years,
[4:41:15] that's I think that's important.
[4:41:17] >> Yeah. No, as you noticed too, as some of
[4:41:19] » Yeah. No, as you noticed too, as some of
[4:41:19] the ones that were not completed carried
[4:41:22] over.
[4:41:22] >> Yep.
[4:41:24] » Yep.
[4:41:24] Um
[4:41:25] >> I'm sorry.
[4:41:27] » I'm sorry.
[4:41:27] >> Was there council member Singh? Did you
[4:41:29] » Was there council member Singh? Did you
[4:41:29] have something you wanted to contribute?
[4:41:31] >> [laughter]
[4:41:32] » [laughter]
[4:41:32] >> I'm just reacting to your statement like
[4:41:34] » I'm just reacting to your statement like
[4:41:34] it's just strange to me to have a goal
[4:41:35] document and then say we're not we may
[4:41:38] not achieve them. Like that is
[4:41:41] bizarre to me from a planning
[4:41:44] standpoint, from a strategic plan, from
[4:41:46] an operational standpoint.
[4:41:48] Um they are there with the intent of
[4:41:50] trying to achieve. But as we all know,
[4:41:54] you know, this document will change.
[4:41:55] It's supposed to be a living document
[4:41:57] based on what we face over the next two
[4:42:00] years. some of what we may get
[4:42:01] challenged by bump some of these off the
[4:42:05] front page and become secondary.
[4:42:08] >> We've definitely experienced that.
[4:42:10] » We've definitely experienced that.
[4:42:10] >> And there's also that opens the door to
[4:42:12] » And there's also that opens the door to
[4:42:12] opportunities too, right? So if
[4:42:14] >> things change in a way that make it
[4:42:16] » things change in a way that make it
[4:42:16] possible to make pro progress on a goal
[4:42:18] that we couldn't make before, then
[4:42:19] that's an opportunity.
[4:42:21] >> Exactly.
[4:42:21] » Exactly.
[4:42:21] >> Um I did have one comment having said
[4:42:24] » Um I did have one comment having said
[4:42:24] that I think there might be too many
[4:42:25] goals. cuz I want to float the idea of
[4:42:26] adding a new one um to the sense of
[4:42:29] place. Um
[4:42:30] >> the comment on that too.
[4:42:31] » the comment on that too.
[4:42:31] >> Yes, you absolutely do. [laughter]
[4:42:33] » Yes, you absolutely do. [laughter]
[4:42:33] Uh which is something that it's grown
[4:42:35] out out of the conversations we've had
[4:42:37] the past couple of years which is um
[4:42:39] under sense of place to add a new goal
[4:42:41] to maintain stability of residential
[4:42:43] neighborhoods.
[4:42:45] Um and I can think of a couple agenda or
[4:42:48] a couple action items that might be
[4:42:49] candidates for that. one is to um
[4:42:51] continue to help um homeowners and
[4:42:54] realtors understand our rental
[4:42:56] regulations
[4:42:57] so that they know what they're getting
[4:42:58] into. Um and also uh work with realtors
[4:43:03] to um help prospective homeowners to try
[4:43:07] to prevent violations of our rental
[4:43:09] regulations before they occur. And I
[4:43:11] suspect we're already doing those things
[4:43:14] um to some extent. Um but if we are then
[4:43:17] it might not hurt to add it. Um, sure.
[4:43:18] But I think there is this issue of sort
[4:43:20] of
[4:43:21] >> helping people understand uh how we got
[4:43:24] » helping people understand uh how we got
[4:43:24] to where we are in terms of our the sort
[4:43:27] of the landscape of our of our
[4:43:28] neighborhoods and how the regulations
[4:43:31] are relevant to that.
[4:43:35] Any further comments on that or anything
[4:43:38] else?
[4:43:40] Okay. So, we will plan to then see this
[4:43:42] on our next DO meeting agenda. Um, a
[4:43:45] month from now
[4:43:47] or three weeks from now,
[4:43:49] >> three weeks.
[4:43:50] » three weeks.
[4:43:50] >> Three weeks. Um, and we'll we got the
[4:43:52] » Three weeks. Um, and we'll we got the
[4:43:52] ball rolling tonight. So, at that point,
[4:43:54] we'll have a sort of fuller discussion.
[4:43:58] Any further comments on anything else?
[4:44:01] Okay, that brings us to uh item five,
[4:44:05] which is adjournment. Is there a motion?
[4:44:08] >> I move to adjurnn. Moved by Singh,
[4:44:11] » I move to adjurnn. Moved by Singh,
[4:44:11] second by Whan. All those in favor say
[4:44:13] I.
[4:44:13] >> I. Motion carries. We are
[4:44:16] » I. Motion carries. We are
[4:44:16] >> adjourned. Thank you all.