1 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,760 Mhm. 2 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:35,200 » to order. Um I call the meeting of the East Lansing uh Planning Commission uh 3 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:39,400 meeting on August 12th, 2026 to order at 6:30 p.m. 4 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:43,000 Uh Landon, could you please call roll? >> I will. Commissioner Stapen? 5 00:09:42,956 --> 00:09:44,400 » [laughter] >> Present. 6 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:46,520 » Present. >> Commissioner Denault? 7 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:49,440 » Here. >> Commissioner Greening? 8 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,240 Commissioner Lipean Ray? >> Here. 9 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,920 » Commissioner Overbey? >> Here. 10 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,440 » Commissioner Putz? Commissioner Ramirez Roberts? 11 00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:00,360 » Here. >> Vice Chair Wagner? Chair Sullivan? We 12 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:03,520 have quorum. >> Thank you. 13 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:06,000 Um, and could I have a motion to approve the agenda for tonight? 14 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,360 » So moved. >> Second. 15 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:14,240 » Uh, moved by Denault, seconded by Overbey. 16 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:17,960 Um, all in favor, please say uh, yay, and all please say oppose say 17 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,760 nay. >> I. 18 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:23,080 » I. >> I. Or I. 19 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:25,680 Um, all right, moving on to item 1.3 on the agenda. 20 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:30,480 Um, approval of the minutes. So, the July 22nd, 2026 Planning Commission 21 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:33,760 meeting minutes, um, are included in your packet. Um, could I have a motion, 22 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:37,240 please, to approve those meeting minutes? 23 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:40,560 » So moved. >> Moved by, uh, Ramirez Roberts. 24 00:10:39,839 --> 00:10:45,800 » Second. >> Seconded by Commissioner Overbey. Um, 25 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,520 all those in favor, please say I. >> I. 26 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:51,640 » I. I. >> Okay, motion passes. 27 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:55,920 Um, moving on to agenda item, uh, two, committee report reports. 28 00:10:53,680 --> 00:11:00,000 Uh, we have the data center staff work group report, and Commissioner Putz and 29 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:03,880 Greening are not here. Would you like to give that? 30 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:07,800 » on the work group. Uh, the data center's work group is an internal work group, 31 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:12,080 uh, from several departments, planning, uh, public works, 32 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:15,120 uh, IT, uh, public works, including the the water, um, 33 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,560 I guess waste water, and also water plant. 34 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,800 Uh, they've been meeting essentially bi-weekly for a couple of months, um, 35 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:25,160 and are getting close to, I I would say we 36 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:28,640 have a good conceptual framework so far, uh, for for an ordinance, uh, but 37 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,000 haven't put together draft language yet, because 38 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:35,120 uh, we had a little challenge over the summer getting in touch with several 39 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:39,280 subject matter experts at MSU and we have a better chance now. Uh so last 40 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:44,600 night actually at Council I requested and was uh given uh a 6-month extension 41 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:47,000 of a moratorium that we passed in March. Uh so we'll have 42 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:51,320 uh a 6 more months uh including the the 43 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:57,160 extra month so and that moratorium will continue until March 17th of next year. 44 00:11:54,120 --> 00:12:01,160 Um but I I hope to uh have language introduced at the Council level 45 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,800 potentially as soon as September uh we'll see how it goes and then it 46 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,880 will come to you after that. >> Sounds good. 47 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,720 » So I'm it's been good work uh by the work group 48 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,040 and I'm excited to bring something to you the next few months. 49 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:17,200 » Sounds good. Any questions on that for Landon? 50 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:20,640 Okay, hearing none moving on to item number three staff reports. Um Landon 51 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,520 I'll turn over to you. >> Sure. 52 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:27,320 Um I'll just briefly mention if anyone's 53 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:30,640 watching online uh it's currently 6:35 and we have a wet weather resiliency 54 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:34,680 plan open house taking place in the lobby until 7:00 p.m. so people can 55 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:37,520 still make it down to Hannah Community Center to the lobby to check out the wet 56 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:41,720 weather resiliency uh plan open house that's going on right 57 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:47,000 now or they can also go to East Lansing's uh East Lansing floodstudy.com 58 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:50,560 uh to find out more about that process and give uh feedback. 59 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:55,800 Otherwise, I just want to mention a little update on what happened uh at 60 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:59,440 Council last night. Um Council uh had a public hearing for ordinance 61 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:04,080 1570 which was a proposed rezoning for 3859 Stoll. 62 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:07,280 That's a small property way up uh at Stoll and Chandler 63 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:11,120 uh that was surrounded by properties that had Dewitt Township zoning. 64 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:15,520 Ordinance 1564 changed all those Dewitt Township zoned properties to have East 65 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:22,360 Lansing zone uh zoning and those became R1 and 35 3859 Stoll was a little pocket 66 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:27,040 of B4 zoning that was left over from previous zoning. So the Council uh 67 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:32,440 approved or adopted that ordinance to change that to be R1 as well to match 68 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:37,400 the rest of the properties around it. Uh ordinance 1559 about diverse housing and 69 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:41,440 1576 a cleanup ordinance to change how 70 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:46,720 upper story residential um is governed in downtown and several 71 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:50,800 other items. Those were both deferred to September 8th. We'll both be discussing 72 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:55,320 those more at council on that night. Also council had a public hearing for 73 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:59,840 ordinance 1575 which is the green code study committee's amendments proposed 74 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:04,360 for the zoning ordinance. They had their public hearing last night 75 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:08,680 just got I think one comment. Um and they'll be taking action potentially or 76 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:13,960 reconsidering that um ordinance on September 22nd. 77 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:18,760 I think that's um that's my update from last night. I 78 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,560 don't think I had anything more. Do you have anything to add? 79 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,200 Okay. Um let me just look through real quick 80 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,520 and see if there's anything else we should talk about. 81 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:34,080 Uh oh the the extension of the moratorium I mentioned 82 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:39,080 um there was a public hearing just uh for 83 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:43,200 your information about um tree removal. Uh we've had trees uh 84 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:47,839 requests to remove trees come to the planning commission before. Uh in this 85 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:52,120 case it was a removal without permission and uh the 86 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:56,680 the applicant was appealing uh the decision of DPW to assess a fine for 87 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:59,320 that. So that was interesting um and we expect a couple more of those requests 88 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,320 to come to council in the next couple months. 89 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:05,640 Um and we'll apprise you of what happens to those as well. But that's my report. 90 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,440 » Was that just the beginning of the appeal or was there a decision made at 91 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,600 council? >> Um it was decided to 92 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:16,400 » Can you actually explain? >> So the appeal was because they took down 93 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:22,200 four city trees and the fine is associated with two hundred dollars per 94 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:26,680 per two inches of tree but the council came to the conclusion that it would be 95 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:31,720 beneficial to get four new trees that are 3-in caliber or larger in place of 96 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:36,640 what was there. And that they're responsible for the 97 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:41,120 fees associated with the stump grinding and then what the permit and after the 98 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:46,520 fact permit fee would be. So, round about $800 I think is what their total 99 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:50,120 fee would be, but then they have to plant those four trees. If they don't 100 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:54,080 plant the four trees within 90 days, then they'll be subject to the original 101 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:56,880 fine of $4,700. >> Got it. Thank you. 102 00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:01,960 » And Commissioner Overby? >> I have a I have a I have a question on 103 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:05,000 the the the gas station moratorium. Is that still in effect and what's what's 104 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:10,040 happening with that? >> Uh yeah, thank you. Um so, council 105 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:14,480 approved a moratorium for uh also in 106 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:19,520 I want to say February until October 3rd of this year on new auto service uh 107 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:22,680 centers, which include gas stations. Uh they had recently approved a couple um 108 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:27,200 and wanted to hit the brakes a little bit and determine if we had a have a 109 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:31,680 need or should change uh regulations. We have done a lot of research internally 110 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:35,520 on trying to understand sort of where we are compared to the region as 111 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:39,320 far as pumps per capita essentially. Uh we've gotten some information about 112 00:16:36,839 --> 00:16:43,400 that. I don't necessarily think that we'll be proposing uh significant 113 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,600 changes, but we may. Um I'll have more information for you guys probably in 114 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,120 September about that. >> Thank you. 115 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:56,800 » All right. Any other questions? Okay. Moving on to item uh 116 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:59,480 4.1, disclosure of conflict of interest. Do any commissioners 117 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:02,800 um have a conflict of interest that they'd like to disclose tonight? 118 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,839 All right. Hearing none, we will move on to item five, communications from 119 00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:13,640 citizens. Um I do have one card, but I'm assuming 120 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:18,600 Lee that you would like to talk um during the um the discussion later on. 121 00:17:16,360 --> 00:17:23,480 Okay. And then any other comments from citizens? 122 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:27,760 » I'm Cliff from DPW and Layton said what I was going to say. Just I wanted to 123 00:17:24,959 --> 00:17:30,480 plug the eastlansingfloodstudy.com and it felt weird to come and sit down 124 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:34,400 and then immediately leave without explanation. So, just reiterating what 125 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,520 he said, that'll be updated for tomorrow. You're going to miss the 126 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:41,160 remainder of tonight, but it's an important project. Um 127 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,320 September 15th, there will be a presentation to council, but in the 128 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:48,120 meantime there's that virtual open house. So, for anyone listening and for 129 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,120 all of you, I encourage you to check it out and 130 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:52,760 uh thank you. >> Sounds good. Thanks, Cliff. 131 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,680 » I applaud you, Cliff. Thank you, Cliff. >> Linda, I don't need We don't need a card 132 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,120 for that, right? >> No. 133 00:17:55,240 --> 00:18:01,120 » Okay. Great. It's perfect. Um 134 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:05,920 I think I skipped over written communications, so I apologize. 135 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:08,880 Uh there is one written communication uh that it looks like is in the packet. All 136 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:12,560 of the communications that were received since 5:00 p.m. last night are included. 137 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,440 Um any 138 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:19,400 comments on that from staff? >> Just that all all written communications 139 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:25,440 received before 5:00 p.m. last night are included. And this one I believe is 140 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:29,040 about the future land use discussion. Um specifically talking about future 141 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:32,040 zoning. Uh so, we would we'd probably get to this in more detail after we 142 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,840 figured out the future land use categories, which will be the topic of 143 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:39,480 discussion tonight. >> Because it's quite lengthy. 144 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:44,120 » It is. It's about uh about 25 pages. >> Okay. Great. 145 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:49,120 Okay. I'm out of order now, so I apologize. Um we'll move on to item 146 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,720 number six, our public hearings. It looks like we do not have any public 147 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:56,360 hearings tonight, so we'll move on to unfinished business items. 148 00:18:53,880 --> 00:19:00,360 Um so, item 7.1, consideration of a request from the Graduate East Lansing 149 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:05,200 to reconfigure an existing plaza space at 133 Evergreen Avenue by adding five 150 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,880 parking spaces and one van accessible space. 151 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,840 Uh I think we'll turn to the staff report first. So, Alicia, I'll turn it 152 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,240 to you. >> I'll share. 153 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,160 You want me share from the end zone? 154 00:19:23,293 --> 00:19:26,623 » [clears throat] [laughter] 155 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,840 » There we go. Okay. So, last uh 156 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:40,680 last planning >> Okay. 157 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:45,840 » Last time we were here, we got an overview of the proposal from The 158 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:50,880 Graduate to install six parking spaces, one of which includes a van accessible 159 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:54,480 space within their existing plaza. The 160 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:59,720 proposal includes some landscaping, but there was concern about trees that had 161 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:05,880 been removed as part of the proposal. Um I did receive an email from Greg, 162 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:11,520 civil engineer, um earlier yesterday. They are dedicated to 163 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:15,320 replacing the trees. So, two can fit on the property now. So, we have three 164 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:19,080 street trees, three private trees. They're proposing two street trees in 165 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:22,400 replacement of what three are taking out, so they'll 166 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:27,000 flank the parking. And then they've proposed to work with 167 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:32,000 the city to relocate that third one in conjunction with a an a location 168 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:38,040 nearby. And then part of the proposal is also removing two of their 169 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:42,120 private trees, which they have agreed to also find a new location with the city 170 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:46,120 for those two additional trees. So, we're not losing We're losing some on 171 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:50,880 the site, but they're they've agreed to relocate them within the vicinity 172 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:55,280 subject to what the city um requirements would be as far as the 173 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:58,800 type and try to get it in close proximity, maybe working with a 174 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:02,560 neighboring property that has more room. So, they have um agreed to do that cuz 175 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,400 this site just can't hold trees that would 176 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:10,640 thrive, and we would want them to thrive. Uh they do propose the 177 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:13,560 landscaping that is um now it's going to be closer to the 178 00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:18,000 building, but they still are providing their clear path of not less than 5 ft 179 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:22,760 of uh accessible space. They've dedicated 180 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:26,760 to that verbally last time, and then I got it in the email again yesterday. 181 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:30,800 There's a PIV valve, which is part of the fire suppression requirements, that 182 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:35,120 is currently located between spaces three and four or two and three, 183 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,880 um which is raised, and so their choice for protection, 184 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:42,920 which they've worked with the fire marshal, is to put that below ground, 185 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:45,120 which will qualify for the requirements. Um 186 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,800 until we have an updated plan, that's why the conditions remain for these 187 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:52,280 items. Um 188 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:55,920 they have identified over on the in front of the building that there is 189 00:21:53,880 --> 00:22:00,280 actually one parking space for their valet service 190 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:03,400 that is dedicated to the graduate 100%, but it is only one based on the 191 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:08,280 dimensions, which their engineers provided. This spaces, including the one 192 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:11,800 van accessible, will be public parking spaces with meters for temporary loading 193 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,720 and unloading. Um it will include a combination of 194 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:19,880 potentially an easement and agreement, which they have already 195 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:23,040 um stated that they would agree to. The agreement is because part 196 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:27,400 of it's public land, part of it's private land, and so the easement 197 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:31,600 portion covers the private portion, but we have to have a parking agreement as 198 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:35,000 is done with other parking areas like at the CVS and so forth. 199 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,560 Um they've already identified that these things that they 200 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:42,960 they'll work through them. Um within the conditions that were 201 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,960 provided, 202 00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:48,160 I did not write them. Um 203 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,080 There there wasn't there were no outstanding 204 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:59,680 conditions that we hadn't already discussed that they hadn't already 205 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:03,640 addressed. Um there is one light pole that has to be removed during the 206 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:07,240 construction, which will be relocated. One of the elements that will also still 207 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:11,480 need to be worked through, which usually comes at permitting, is related to the 208 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:15,120 actual lines for the electric service and any other lines that may be buried 209 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,920 that they haven't investigated yet. They'll work with the engineering 210 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:21,520 department to sort through what exist or doesn't exist and how that 211 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:27,120 needs to be relocated to allow that light to be placed um and still run and 212 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:30,920 operate safely. I will mention that we have talked at 213 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:36,800 length and I Lee and I have talked many times about the concerns that we have 214 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:39,080 heard as staff related to the valet operations. 215 00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:43,280 Um I observed it firsthand yesterday. Um 216 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:48,000 there was an event and the runners were running, 217 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:51,880 but the cars were still parked where it says do not park. 218 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:56,200 They were trying to valet them. People were literally getting out of their cars 219 00:23:54,000 --> 00:24:01,360 and just walking in. It was on spilled onto Albert on both directions. It was 220 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,920 blocked at one point in both directions on Evergreen. 221 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,560 So, it would be a very strong encouragement 222 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:12,680 to continue to improve your operations to be able to make this a success. Um 223 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,680 that 224 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:18,040 it's definitely an operational challenge, but I I believe Lee has 225 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:22,360 explained that it's a third party that handles those valet operations 226 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:27,120 and they have to remember it's not a parking lot. It is 227 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:31,400 temporary loading and unloading and these spaces that are being provided are 228 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:38,120 for the public. So, if someone wants to pop in for 15 minutes and run to MSUFCU 229 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:41,120 or over to the donut store, they are allowed to use those spaces as 230 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:45,160 well. With the operations, they need to be 231 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:49,040 aware, which Lee has mentioned before, is that you can't block somebody in 232 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:54,400 there. Um and then we have another traffic congestion. So, this is intended 233 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:57,560 to stop the street parking, which is 234 00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:03,360 not allowed and has been abused, unfortunately, and this was the solution 235 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:07,560 that was determined to be the best of what could come from the challenges that 236 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:12,960 they have. Uh, they did get a recommendation from the Transportation 237 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:17,600 Commission on July 13th. 238 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:22,760 Yes, July 13th for these spaces. So, they were in support of adding those. It 239 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,760 did go to the DDA 240 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:28,960 last month. I can't Sorry, I can't remember the date. 241 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:33,040 27th? 23rd of July, and they did postpone 242 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:37,440 action uh, for further discussion and to allow 243 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:40,480 them the opportunity to review the plan. It hadn't been incorporated into their 244 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:45,960 packet. Um, that will be revisited on the 27th 245 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:51,560 at DDA. Their recommendation will go directly to City Council. 246 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,560 Any questions? 247 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:57,240 Yes, Commissioner Overbeek. >> Couple of questions. So, we do not know 248 00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:01,120 what the DDA recommendation will be, and that will go directly to the Council. 249 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:04,520 » Correct. And that happens occasionally the way 250 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,600 that the meetings land. >> Right. 251 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,960 » That it could be the day after a Planning Commission vote. 252 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:13,200 That would be the same thing. But, yeah, we won't know until 253 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,240 City Council, whatever their recommendation is, that packet gets 254 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:19,400 published. >> And and you saw firsthand what was 255 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,920 happening at the at at at this area with doing it at at 256 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,720 an event. And I mean, I'm struggling with this. 257 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,880 There's very There's There's we can't make any more space there. 258 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:37,920 I wish we could, but we can't. And I personally think the only solution 259 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:41,840 to this is if they have enough runners. Because you're going to have cars 260 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:46,560 that'll back up. I mean, there's How many cars will it take for it to 261 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:51,120 back up there? Five? Six? And if you have an event, you're going to have that 262 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:56,920 many people that that roll up all at once. And so, I'm just struggling with 263 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:59,760 with what is the possible solution, and I don't know. 264 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:03,880 » It's going to come down to enforcement that we are going to have to 265 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:07,080 make sure that the city's PACE department is doing their enforcement 266 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:11,160 and hope that the operations are improved to not have it to be a problem 267 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,200 that we have continued to see. >> Let's hope that they have enough 268 00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:17,800 runners. I mean, I felt that when we talked about 269 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:21,160 this last time, I felt that the solution was that they have enough runners. 270 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:25,520 Runners, I assume, are the people that drive the cars to 271 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:29,360 the Grove Street ramp and then and then run back and get another car. 272 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:32,000 » They do run. Yeah, and I I know that Lee mentioned previously when we had a 273 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:35,880 conversation related to trying to let their guests know before they arrived 274 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:39,120 that they have limited space in front of the building for valet and trying to 275 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:43,400 encourage their uh visitors to park themselves. Um 276 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,320 he'll have to speak to how that's working. 277 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,240 It it is a challenge. It's a site that 278 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:54,040 doesn't accommodate the need that the graduate 279 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:58,560 has. So, this was the best option that has been provided to try and 280 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,840 soften the edges of a really >> Right. 281 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:03,720 » rough bristle. >> But if you if if you're going to park 282 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:08,280 yourself, you will still have to come up in front of the hotel to unload your 283 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:12,040 family and your guest and your and your luggage. I mean, you're not going to 284 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:15,360 drag your luggage from the parking ramp. >> Well, I always took my kid from the ramp 285 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:19,360 with his baseball bags and everything. It's just a culture 286 00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:22,440 of choice that I believe and Lee will speak to this what their guests are 287 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,600 accustomed to. >> Right. Yeah. Right. 288 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,400 Thank you, Alicia. >> I had one question um that I didn't see 289 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,640 in the packet, so I'm assuming we couldn't figure it out. Um I think that 290 00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:36,200 I had asked something last time, but I can't remember about whether we had any 291 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:40,720 data on the number of um calls that had been made to PACE um about the specific 292 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,320 uh the specific issue. Was there any 293 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:48,440 follow-up on that? >> So, there was 280 or so over a course of 294 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,120 a year. >> Okay. 295 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:54,640 » Um staff probably has half of those calls 296 00:28:52,880 --> 00:29:01,600 that they've made and then it's exhausting to make those calls. Um 297 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:05,000 so the number of complaints has been reduced, but we do still see the 298 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:10,600 challenges that they're faced with trying to accommodate their guests and 299 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:13,280 um it >> No, that's helpful. 300 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:18,000 » Yes, Commissioner Shapen. >> For for um for staff [laughter] here, 301 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,200 I'm uh there's we've been using a couple 302 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:26,480 terms interchangeably. I just want to make sure we clarify this. Is this a 303 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:31,560 15-minute parking zone or is this a loading area? Loading and unloading. 304 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:37,480 It's not for parking. Okay, so I want to get back to your comment about you could 305 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:41,120 park there and go to the donut store. So, I think we need to sort of clarify 306 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:45,560 that. That was confusing to me. >> Okay, so you can 307 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:50,520 I guess temporarily park would be the the way to but it is 15 minutes. The 308 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,920 meter won't allow it for a snap again for another 15 minutes. You can't put 309 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,760 coins into it. But it's intended for loading and 310 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,240 unloading, but at the same time being that it's public, if somebody did want 311 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,800 to pop their car there for a minute to run 312 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:06,240 across the street, they have the right to do that. So, it is kind of 313 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:10,680 interchangeable in that it's intended for loading and unloading 314 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,960 short-term metered to give the opportunity to utilize some time to go 315 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,800 to the other businesses. >> So, I may have just a little follow-up. 316 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:21,800 I may have misunderstood. We are going to have meters there? I 317 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:26,400 thought we were going to have a sign or it was going to be signed 318 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,600 uh in that area, but there'll be meters and a sign? 319 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,840 » Yes. >> So, 320 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,480 all right, so loading area with meters. 321 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,680 » Yes. >> Okay. 322 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:40,600 » Maximum 15 minutes. >> was confusing to me, but and I would 323 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:44,600 also say while I'm asking questions, I viewed the video from a couple weeks 324 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:48,920 ago. But you guys asked every question that I would be interested in and I 325 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:51,880 thank you for representing those that were not in attendance last night. Thank 326 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,400 you. >> And thank you for pointing out the 327 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:58,760 confusion. I I can understand how it is. >> Okay. 328 00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,800 » It's intended for short-term turnaround. 329 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,760 » Okay. >> What 330 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,840 Um >> I have a follow-up. Go ahead. 331 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,160 » I was just going to say what type of meter is this? Is this a um 332 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:12,160 » city >> Is it one where you push the like the 333 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:16,600 button and you get 15 minutes? Is it the one that automatically bills you after 334 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:21,480 your time expires? Is it the one where you have the passport app? 335 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:26,520 » No, I believe it's a flip one. Um but it technology could change by the time it 336 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:29,920 gets input. Um there is a program that city council recently 337 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:35,440 approved which is working through the system to get um 338 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:40,280 the parking sticks if you will to help with enforcement. So 339 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:45,240 the intent was for however the meter is sorted, it is 15 minutes period. Whether 340 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:49,920 it's a a button or a flip switch, I'm not sure. But you can't passport. 341 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:52,520 There's no cost to it. It's just you get 15 minutes and then you got to be out. 342 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,160 And those part of the enforcement that we've 343 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:59,840 talked about is Pace being able to do so if these sticks um 344 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:03,560 pass the requirements of the state to be able to coordinate whatever they got to 345 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:07,360 do for that particular situation. That will help with the enforcement. Um 346 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:11,280 ultimately I think Lee could speak to the fact that 347 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:14,360 if those things do get put in place and the customer gets the ticket 3 weeks 348 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:18,280 later in the mail, that's not something that they're going to be really happy 349 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:22,040 about. So the process um is still working through the system. 350 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:26,120 City council did approve them. But again, it has to go through multiple 351 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,640 steps with state approvals and the court and so forth. 352 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:32,840 But the intent is 15 minutes and you're out. 353 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:37,920 It shouldn't take more than 15 minutes to have somebody unload their things. 354 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,680 And then have the car moved or >> Right. 355 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,480 » get their things and move or run into issues. 356 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,800 » And I think the thing that I'm hung up on and I might have said this last time 357 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,120 and I just have to work through it in my brain is 358 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:51,240 these are public spaces >> Yes. 359 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:56,320 » that you could use as the graduate >> Yes. 360 00:32:52,560 --> 00:33:01,120 » for all of your valet needs as runners are running back and forth. So, all five 361 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:04,440 spaces could be occupied by graduate guests. So, they're not 362 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:08,200 really public. >> They're intended for the public. It's 363 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:11,280 not solely for the graduate. >> Okay. 364 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,880 » Because it is partially in public right of way. 365 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,800 » Okay. 366 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,640 » It'll be a balance. >> Other questions for staff from 367 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,840 Commissioner Sorry, Commissioner Donnell. 368 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:32,400 » Um the packet says that 369 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:36,560 so, comments from environmental staff request that the applicant and public 370 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:42,320 works will establish a mutually agreeable fixed cost figure 371 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:47,200 reflecting infrastructure costs for the the future street tree. Do you know if 372 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:50,840 that has been agreed upon yet? 373 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:55,880 » So, it has not. There is a modification to the tree ordinance that we have that 374 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:58,800 is being worked through. It's not This is also is not the time that we want to 375 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:03,480 be planting trees. Trees need to be planted later in the fall. Hopefully, 376 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:09,280 that ordinance gets sorted by that time, but they the applicant has 377 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:13,200 um committed to that. And it'll 378 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:16,240 be whatever the street tree allowances are 379 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,480 um based on what the recommendations from the arborist and environmental 380 00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:24,919 health have. But again, the applicant has agreed to those standards verbally 381 00:34:22,879 --> 00:34:28,280 in testimony last at the last meeting and then I did get the email yesterday. 382 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,879 I think it was yesterday from their civil engineer also committing to that. 383 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,399 » Okay. >> So, the cost related is not decided yet 384 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:38,760 because we don't we don't >> that was my clarifying question was so 385 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:44,720 it has been agreed that they will plant the tree but the mutually agreeable 386 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:47,560 fixed cost that DPW request has not been agreed upon yet. 387 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:52,000 » Correct. And it comes down to the type of tree that would 388 00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:57,159 be best served for where it's planted and have the best survival rate. 389 00:34:54,399 --> 00:34:57,159 » Excellent, thanks. 390 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,080 Good, Josh. >> Yeah. 391 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:05,520 » Okay, perfect. Um yes, Commissioner Overby. 392 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,400 » Real quick question. Evergreen remains two-way, I believe. 393 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,640 » Correct. >> As it looked like there was some 394 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:14,360 discussion about making it one-way, but it remains two-way. 395 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:18,000 » There had been um 396 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:22,480 maybe five or six iterations of attempts to try and find solutions through 397 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:28,840 Evergreen Avenue, including various one-way options. In the end, this is 398 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,840 what came back as the most 399 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,920 as the best solution to a really difficult problem, but it does remain 400 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,240 two-way. >> Thank you. 401 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:44,240 » Okay, if there's no more questions, then um Mr. Cody, I'd call you up. I probably 402 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,520 said that wrong. >> No, that's it. Cody. 403 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:50,600 » Okay, great. >> Hi, first off, just 404 00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:53,680 Lee Cody representing the Graduate Hotel. Nice to see you guys again. Uh 405 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:58,400 thank you so much for your time and consideration on this project. Um as 406 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:02,800 Alicia was mentioning, uh definitely view this as 407 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:08,120 a positive for the area and a positive part of ultimately a multi-faceted 408 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:11,600 solution, which absolutely total head count with those valet runners that we 409 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:15,800 have is a huge part of that. So, just wanted to update quickly on that. Over 410 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:20,760 the last 30 days, after last time we met, uh sat with our operator, we did 411 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:24,320 some math. Uh the number that we came up for total head count to operate with 412 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:28,880 complete efficiency and avoid these backups was a 35% head count. Uh we have 413 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:33,040 since then verbally agreed to within that contract 414 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:36,560 that they're going to get to a 45-person head count because of the fact that if 415 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:40,480 anything we'd like to be in a position that we have more people than is needed. 416 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:45,320 Um, and they're about halfway to that goal, which is a positive. I think we're 417 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:49,880 at about 25 as of 35 30 days ago and up to about 35 currently or starting 418 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:54,440 shortly uh with that goal to get to 45. So, that'll be a huge part of uh 419 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:58,560 the full solution in the area. But, definitely view this project as a part 420 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:03,920 of that solution and a positive to continue to alleviate backups and 421 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:07,800 improve traffic flow and safety in that area, which is our ultimate goal and 422 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:11,920 service the guest. And just uh one other follow-up with the question regarding us 423 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:16,440 attempting to guide guests to alternative options for them for us. Uh, 424 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,360 primarily that's for special events. Um, like the one that was Alicia that Alicia 425 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:23,360 was mentioning. That's really when the biggest bumps if we've got a group 426 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:26,480 that's hard start time at 9:00 a.m. they're all going to show up within 427 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:31,120 10-15 minutes of that. That's when we'll guide them uh to public options 428 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:35,000 uh within the city, which has worked well for groups that have kind of over 429 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:38,600 time got to know us, got to know the area that we'll recommend that as a good 430 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:42,960 option for them. Um, we've also had a couple of groups that have contracted uh 431 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:46,760 with neighbors of ours to be able to kind of self park in some of those you 432 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:50,560 know, available spaces locally, which has worked well too and we'll continue 433 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:54,800 to uh guide people that way and and pursue that as a part of this overall 434 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:59,560 solution. And happy to answer any additional 435 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,560 questions you guys may have. 436 00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:05,280 » Do you have one? Commissioner Romeo Roberts. 437 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:08,880 » Yeah, I understand this doesn't necessarily come down to the planning 438 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:12,240 aspect. I didn't know if you had any knowledge on this. I got like a door 439 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:17,400 hanger delivered to my house essentially saying 440 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:21,240 like call your council members and it was about this project and I looked up 441 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,960 the mailing agency. It wasn't mail. Someone literally went and put it on my 442 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,080 door. >> Oh, yeah. 443 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:30,040 » Um and it was for like Unite Here and I looked it up, it's a hospitality union. 444 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,520 But that's It didn't look like they represented your building, correct? 445 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,560 » Uh that is correct. Yeah, they do not. 446 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,680 Yeah. >> I was 447 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,560 » You're good. >> the same one. 448 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,001 » Thank you. >> I I wanted to. 449 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:45,280 » I didn't get it. >> [laughter] 450 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:49,560 » And one other note, just on the trees, as Alicia was mentioning, I was working 451 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:54,480 not only with the city for um those city trees and our full commitment to replace 452 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:57,440 at everyone here's discretion where that would go. 453 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,520 Um did have a good conversation with our partners next door neighbors at the 454 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:04,560 People's Church and they said that they would be very open to us 455 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:08,400 attempting to find good locations to replace a couple or three of those trees 456 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:13,480 that need to be moved somewhere on their site, so um 457 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:16,080 that'll be an option for us. >> The only other thing I was going to ask 458 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,960 you about on that front and this might be minor and I can't find it now, but 459 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,680 there was somewhere in here that um you'd obviously been working through the 460 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:26,640 tree piece, but there were also like the unresolved, the planters and there was 461 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:30,680 no idea for where or I didn't see anything about where those would be 462 00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:35,400 moved. Are those just getting nixed >> So, the existing landscaping is going to 463 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:39,240 continue to exist, but will be kind of shifted um closer to that side entrance 464 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,760 of the property. >> Okay. 465 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:45,560 » So, there's an existing planter box with landscaping that will be shifted a 466 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,760 little bit to kind of the left-hand side of the screen. 467 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,840 » Okay. Thank you. 468 00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:52,800 » Yeah. >> The box, I think itself will be made 469 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:57,840 smaller and then there's some trim plantings. It's not just 470 00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:00,440 the box anymore cuz it doesn't fit >> It doesn't fit. 471 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:03,360 » where it is, but they're making up for landscaping. 472 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:08,200 The trees or the >> We're generally keeping the same look 473 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:11,120 and feel of the trees and foliage. >> The trees, yes. The The landscaping will 474 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,800 look different just because of the amount of 475 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,680 cut out that they had to do. >> Okay. 476 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,400 » But there's still a good amount. >> Okay. 477 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,840 Commissioner Overbey. >> So, how 478 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:26,680 how many runners is your goal to have? >> 45 is the goal. 479 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:31,000 » So, there was an event yesterday that that that staff said was kind of 480 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:34,080 clogged. How many runners were there yesterday? 481 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:38,200 » So, full transparency, I was not physically there yesterday. I was 482 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:43,160 attending a Chamber of Commerce event. Um I know the event that she's speaking 483 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:46,520 of was the uh mobility summit, which had a lot of unique factors to it, including 484 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:51,520 some of their own vehicles that were being showcased, and some trailers to 485 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:54,520 bring some of those vehicles in. Um I could not speak to the exact number 486 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:59,680 without going out back to double-check. I can tell you that um halfway to the 487 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:03,360 goal of 35 is what they expect as they get a few more students back that have 488 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:07,400 signed on to join the team. They operate with a lot of students, um which is 489 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:12,400 great. And once we get to that number, that's why we've chosen to push them 490 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:15,000 kind of 10 plus above the number that we Armac told us would would alleviate 491 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:19,480 everything. >> Thank you. 492 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:23,280 » Yes. So, I saw the two two same people running yesterday, so I don't know how 493 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:27,800 many were on staff, but for your 45 count, is that spread over a shift? 494 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:31,160 » No, that would be their total head count that then would be dispersed on shifts 495 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:34,240 based on needs. Um no, total staff head count. So, of 496 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:38,360 course some of those individuals might work three days a week. 497 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,440 » So, if you're having an event like yesterday, 498 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,880 » Yeah. >> how many people would you expect to be 499 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,840 able to have on staff to accommodate the run? 500 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:51,320 » Yeah, I would I would say probably 15. Probably 15 would be my best estimate. I 501 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:54,320 mean, PMC ultimately, they kind of guide us on some of this. They are the experts 502 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,880 in that area, but we've just continued to push them to say, "Hey, you think 503 00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:01,640 it's 12, let's get to 15. You think total head count's 35, let's get to 45." 504 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:05,400 Um so that we can have more bodies than we 505 00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:09,880 need. >> If I may one other. Um I I neglected to 506 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:13,000 mention in the traffic study, so there consistently throughout the 507 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:17,600 traffic study, we see the number of seven spaces required. At some point 508 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:22,520 there was a number up to upwards of 12. I can't locate that in the document, but 509 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:27,040 seven is consistently the amount that's been listed as a need for valet spaces. 510 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:30,640 So you have the one that's dedicated in front of the building. You get five more 511 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:34,880 so we're at six because the van accessible doesn't count. 512 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:38,840 How are we going to deal with that additional 513 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:42,800 » Yeah, I think shifting those numbers that talked by the number of folks that 514 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:45,840 are on staff. That changes that picture a small amount. Yeah. 515 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,800 » But what I'm hearing is if the trap the traffic study is calling for seven and 516 00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:55,120 we don't have a way to get to seven spaces. 517 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,120 Okay. 518 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:59,080 Other questions for the applicant? 519 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:05,480 Chelsea Chelsea or Commissioner Janel. >> [laughter] 520 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:12,040 » Um One of the other um points from DPW here 521 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:18,280 was that y'all would guarantee the survival 522 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:22,680 of um the new trees that you're putting in um 523 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:28,920 in DPW recommended a condition of approval requiring um a minimum of three 524 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:33,880 years post installation that you would replace the trees at your cost if if 525 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:38,360 they were to unfortunately die. Is that something that you would agree to have 526 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,920 listed in one of the conditions? >> Yeah, we're comfortable with that. 527 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,120 » Okay. Perfect. Thank you. >> Mhm. 528 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:47,840 » Um and I feel like I had one more question, but now I don't remember what 529 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:52,720 it Oh, I remember now. Um so the I just wanted to follow up on the planter 530 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:55,920 question. So the planters um there will still be a planter. It'll be slightly 531 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,800 different it sounds like, but there will still be some landscaping 532 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:03,320 similar to what's there. >> Correct. 533 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:10,680 » Does it overall though increase the amount of impervious surface that could 534 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,680 result in more like storm water runoff. 535 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:16,240 » I do not offhand know the answer to that. 536 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:20,560 » We had asked the engineer for that information last time. He indicated it 537 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:24,440 was close, but that they were going to provide the number and I don't have that 538 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,440 number. 539 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:33,680 I only ask because I'm not sure off the top of my head what 540 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:36,920 like it's not sewer, but like waste water 541 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:42,600 infrastructure is on Evergreen and I could imagine if there's a really bad 542 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:45,640 storm that kind of little corridor becoming overwhelmed. 543 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,880 » Yeah. I mean I can say from personal 544 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,720 experience knock on wood that I can't recall a time that there was like 545 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:55,080 standing water there in the 2 and 1/2 years that I've been there. Of course, 546 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:58,760 that is a possibility, but it's not something that I think about often as 547 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,160 like a recurring issue that I've seen. >> Okay. 548 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,760 Any other questions? 549 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:07,960 All right. >> Motion. 550 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,680 » Thank you. >> Thank you so much. 551 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:15,320 » I do have a landscape plan. All right. With that, I'd like to ask for a motion 552 00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:17,800 for discussion. >> I'll be happy to make a motion unless 553 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:23,520 » Okay. >> Josh wants to make the motion. 554 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:26,520 » Motion by Chapin seconded by >> Sure. I'll second it. 555 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:31,440 » All right. There we go. I guess I'm in. I think this is fairly simple. 556 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:38,560 I move to approve the site plan request from Lee Cody on behalf of GMI LLC to 557 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:44,120 reconfigure an an existing plaza space by adding five 558 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:50,080 parking spaces and one van accessible space located at 133 Evergreen 559 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:54,120 Avenue. Before I read the rest of this, AIR stands for 560 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,480 Okay. Thank you. Say it again. 561 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,960 AIR stands for >> [clears throat] 562 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,840 » Agenda >> Attached 563 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:09,320 » Agenda item report. It's in there. >> Okay, that's all right. I know it's in 564 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,680 there. I just want to make sure if I'm reading it, I just want to make 565 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:15,160 sure I knew what AIR stood for. >> Sorry. 566 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:21,120 » This decision is based on the findings and determinations to approve a site 567 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:28,040 plan for 130 133 Evergreen Avenue and the conditions of approval dated August 568 00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:34,200 12th, 2026, which is attached to the AIR for this agenda item and incorporated 569 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:38,400 into this motion by this reference. I have nothing further to add to that. 570 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,920 » Okay. >> But maybe others do. 571 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:44,640 » I believe Commissioner Denault wanted to add um 572 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:53,320 » I did want to [clears throat] add that. Um so, I was just going to propose a 573 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:59,600 friendly amendment that um reflecting DPW's request that the 574 00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:05,360 applicant would guarantee replacement of the tree for 3 years after installation. 575 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:07,960 Which the applicant has very kindly agreed to. 576 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:15,527 » So noted. Are you looking at me because I made the motion to add that friendly 577 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,320 amendment? I'm very friendly >> [laughter] 578 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,560 » to add that amendment. So, I'll be very friendly to add that 579 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,680 amendment. >> I think I have to make a motion though 580 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,280 and then we can vote on >> motion on that. 581 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:29,560 » Very good. >> Yeah. So, I move what I just said. 582 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:35,120 To amend the motion that was on the To Yes, I move I will just say it over. I 583 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:39,960 move to add an amendment to the motion by 584 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:42,800 um Commissioner Chapin to add language reflecting DPW's 585 00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:47,560 uh request that the applicant would 586 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:51,720 guarantee the replacement of any trees for 3 years post installation. 587 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:58,360 As a condition of approval. >> And does that require a second? 588 00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,040 » I'll second. >> Thank you. Thank you. 589 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:04,800 » Very good. >> And now I think we vote just on the 590 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:08,360 amendment. We're voting on the amendment. 591 00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,680 » We have but we sort of have skipped over the discussion piece. 592 00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:12,800 » We'll come back to it. >> Well, let's 593 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,400 » You can discuss now if you'd like. >> So we have the whole yeah, the whole 594 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,000 motion on the table. >> We will vote on 595 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:21,400 » Yeah. >> Commissioner or not Commissioner, 596 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:23,640 Landing can you um call roll for the um motion on the table? 597 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,760 » Sure. Uh [clears throat] so we have a motion 598 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:29,400 to amend the main motion by adding a condition about tree maintenance for 3 599 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,440 years uh made by Denault, seconded by Ramirez 600 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,280 Roberts. Uh Commissioner Chapin, how do you vote? 601 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,120 » I, yes. >> Commissioner Denault? 602 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,440 » Yes. >> Commissioner Lupien Raby? 603 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,120 » No. >> Commissioner Overby? 604 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,120 » Yes. >> And Commissioner Ramirez Roberts? 605 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,920 » Yes. >> That amendment passes. 606 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,520 » Okay. So now you can have discussion if you'd 607 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,080 like on the original motion. On the original 608 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:55,040 motion. >> About the Gestalt and what we want to 609 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,920 do. Well, I I'm I'm glad to speak up. 610 00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:03,680 » Sure. >> I I have really struggled with this 611 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:10,440 and trying to think of what would be the solution for the city and the hotel with 612 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:15,600 the traffic congestion in this area. And I I believe it's a fault that that 613 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:20,760 that should have been addressed when the hotel was built and there was more space 614 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:27,080 there and perhaps perhaps more options at that point. But where we are right 615 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:30,280 now, I see no other choice. I I I struggle with this and I don't like this 616 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:34,840 because I regardless of how many runners you 617 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:39,840 have, I believe that when we have a football game and you have you have a 618 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:43,320 full house, it that area is going to be impacted. 619 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:48,080 And and it's going to be really really difficult. I 620 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:54,200 despite my dislike for all of this, I I plan to support this motion and and I 621 00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:58,840 don't see another option And I welcome the the the hotel folks and I welcome my 622 00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:05,120 fellow commissioners to say here is another choice. And and I simply don't 623 00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,120 see it. 624 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:10,760 » Yeah. Oh, I was just going to add that I I agree with you entirely that I think 625 00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,440 this probably should have been something that 626 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:17,080 that was discussed when we were doing the the approval and City Council was 627 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:19,360 also doing the approval on this initial plan. 628 00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:25,560 Um my challenge with this is related to the 629 00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:31,880 the parking standards and the traffic study. I don't I 630 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:36,400 I cannot rectify that this will make any improvement 631 00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:42,000 to the current process even with the additional runners. And I do have 632 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:46,160 concerns that by adding these additional public spaces, I mean, we've all lived 633 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:50,400 in East Lansing for a long time. We're going to have people that will park in 634 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:54,920 those spaces that will then be occupying those spaces 635 00:50:52,400 --> 00:51:00,560 probably for longer than 15 minutes. And then the backlog of cars will go further 636 00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:04,160 into I can't remember what that street is 637 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:09,160 and will likely impede traffic behind the People's Church and run onto the 638 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:13,320 entrance of the parking garage that's there. So, I 639 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:18,280 I am worried that adding these additional five, you know, quote public 640 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:22,200 spaces will lead to more of a backlog than we already have even with the 641 00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:26,840 addition of the runners. Um so I I will be voting be voting no on 642 00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:30,120 this not because I don't think it's a um 643 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:34,120 you know, a warranted request. I just don't think it's a it's 644 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:37,480 a solution to this problem. >> Mhm. I understand that. 645 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:43,400 I'll tie in with those very words and I think 646 00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:48,760 Mr. Corey you know, used the word solution often in your presentation. You 647 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:53,680 just used it as well, and I made a note, I think this is an 648 00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:58,800 improvement. Um, but it's not a solution, and I think this is a 649 00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:04,680 a move in the right direction. Uh, I think we need to do something. 650 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:09,560 Um, I'm going to trust the people involved to make sure this is an 651 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:15,760 improvement. Um, but I also hear you clearly say that 652 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:20,920 this is not the end solution. Uh, it might be uh after we try this for a 653 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:25,320 little bit, but um I'm I'm building really on the 654 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:27,800 commentary from 2 weeks ago, where the very questions that were sort of raising 655 00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:28,840 now >> Right. 656 00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,720 » uh resonated with me. 657 00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:39,360 Um, so I'm going to vote yes, an improvement, not a solution, and um 658 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:42,440 let's move it along in my mind. >> Sounds good. Any other items of 659 00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:46,280 discussion, or are we ready Do we even have to call a roll call vote again? 660 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:49,160 » You can You can. >> We should I think we should. 661 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,960 » Could you call a roll call vote again, Landon, please? 662 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:56,320 » So, the main motion uh recommending your approval as amended, uh 663 00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:59,560 moved by Chapin. I'm sorry, I don't have it who seconded? 664 00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:03,360 » Uh, Romero's Roberts. >> Thank you. 665 00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:06,880 And seconded by Romero's Roberts. Um, Commissioner Donnell, how do you vote? 666 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,240 » Yes. >> Commissioner Lapine Ray. 667 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,320 » No. >> Commissioner Overby. 668 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,520 » Yes. >> Commissioner Romero's Roberts. 669 00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,480 » Yes. >> And Commissioner Chapin. 670 00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,720 » Yes. >> Motion passes four to one. 671 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:23,200 » All right. >> Good discussion. 672 00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:26,000 » Yes, thank you so much. And that will go on to City Council at 673 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:30,920 the next meeting, or a future meeting. Okay. 674 00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:35,640 Ideally at the August 8th >> to have a pace officer stationed at this 675 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,397 entrance to this hotel. >> like you're looking for a new job. 676 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,680 » WITH HIS >> [laughter] 677 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:44,920 » WITH HIS pad right out there. >> Or maybe you want to be a runner. 678 00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:50,400 » Uh okay. Moving on to item 7.2 continue 679 00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:55,000 discussion of the current future land use map categories and potential 680 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,360 changes. Uh Mr. Bartley, I'll turn it to you. 681 00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:59,880 » Thank you. Uh so 682 00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:04,720 um as you know, the planning commission 683 00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:09,560 adopted a update to the comprehensive uh plan for the city last August. Uh 684 00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:14,120 but but um we didn't recommend uh at that time 685 00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:19,200 creating a new future land use map. We considered that an implementation step. 686 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:23,000 Uh and so now we've been discussing I guess since uh early this year 687 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:27,720 um how to approach that that uh change. Um 688 00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:32,600 should we be creating new categories for the future land use map and if so, what 689 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:36,240 should those be? And then to uh redesignate the city with a we can 690 00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:39,840 create a new future land use map. So the first first step is to create new 691 00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:45,920 categories. Um we started discussing this back in uh 692 00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:50,520 I believe April, actually March and then again in April. Uh in in early July we 693 00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:53,560 had a retreat uh upstairs in this building and 694 00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:57,240 uh talked about this for a little bit, but uh much more of the retreat was 695 00:54:55,400 --> 00:55:01,520 about uh legal training. And so I wanted to make sure we have 696 00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:04,000 some time for discussion uh in the conversations with you before the 697 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:07,160 meeting today. Uh I think that we probably won't be 698 00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:10,280 seeing a decision. Uh it sounded like more of you are comfortable with waiting 699 00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:14,880 until we have a larger commission here. Uh but I did want to certainly just 700 00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:17,680 um I guess sort of just reopen the conversation and see if there are any 701 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:21,800 questions, if there are comments since July 11th, if you had 702 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:26,280 had thought about this at all. Um I I had provided you with several examples 703 00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:30,840 of future land use maps from other uh other municipalities um 704 00:55:28,720 --> 00:55:34,600 within Michigan and and elsewhere. Uh and also 705 00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:40,680 the about I think about 50 pages of descriptions from the 2018 master plan 706 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:43,720 that described all the 15 uh land use categories that we have currently on 707 00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:50,200 that map. I also provided a sort of a description 708 00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:53,240 of some ideas for what could be examples of 709 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:58,000 future land use categories. One one one item that I certainly 710 00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:01,320 recommend is right now our categories we have 711 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:08,760 15 of them. Those categories are R1, R2, R3, R4, R5, 712 00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:12,240 M1, M2, M3, M4, C1, C2, C3. And then special academic arts and open 713 00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:17,280 space. And just sort of at the outset those are 714 00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:22,200 kind can be kind of confusing especially casual user especially 715 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:25,734 because some of those designation names are the same as zone district 716 00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:27,440 names. And so >> [clears throat] 717 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:32,200 » it's a best practice to have more descriptive names. So I sort of start 718 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:37,160 there. In your in your descriptive sort of category examples 719 00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:41,560 sort of turn to the end of your packet. I talk about it's right now we have R1 720 00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:45,400 through R5 as residential land use categories but it's really based on 721 00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:50,240 density. X units per acre all the way up to higher X per acre. 722 00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:54,040 We can certainly keep considering sort of that density that's 723 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:59,480 an important concern to many citizens here residents especially 724 00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:02,760 about residential density but but a more descriptive something like neighborhood 725 00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:06,440 residential or mixed residential or urban residential that's more high 726 00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:09,520 intensity. Campus related housing those are some examples I gave of a little 727 00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:14,120 more descriptive just a little more than just the straight up R1 or R2. 728 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:19,520 Similarly mixed use categories M1 through M4 don't 729 00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:22,920 really describe what that means. And in fact even when you start digging in and 730 00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:28,520 go and hey what what is the difference between M3 and M4 for example? Um 731 00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:33,160 it can be can be kind of difficult. So I recommend things It's like what is the 732 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:36,560 intensity of this business district? Is this neighborhood mixed use is more of a 733 00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:40,520 corridor or is it more regional or is it is it urban center 734 00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:43,960 or is it sort of on a again an interface between sort of the 735 00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:46,480 the campus and and the city proper. 736 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,960 And then same thing with commercial categories 737 00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:52,920 neighborhood commercial community commercial regional commercial ideas 738 00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:56,240 like this of how can we more descriptive so that someone can have a little more 739 00:57:54,320 --> 00:58:01,280 idea when they look at that future land use map and that category listing of 740 00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:05,000 what what those categories correspond to in real life. 741 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:07,880 So I guess sort of with that to just to start with I just kind of wanted to 742 00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,760 check with the group that's here today and see if 743 00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:13,160 what are the thoughts been leaving that retreat? How have you 744 00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:16,720 have you taken some time and thought more about this? 745 00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:21,400 We're going to continue the discussion at future future meetings and I'm not 746 00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:24,840 necessarily looking for proposals today but if you have a proposal I'd love to 747 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:28,480 hear it. If you have thoughts concerns questions I really just wanted to open 748 00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:32,240 the discussion and see how it goes. 749 00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:40,000 » Commissioner Edelson. Um I especially like in the um 750 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:44,800 suggested future categories I really like that you suggest that we break up 751 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:49,520 the parks schools open space vacant bucket into 752 00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:54,040 several more descriptive types of 753 00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:57,920 areas that could fall under what was once previously an enormous bucket full 754 00:58:56,360 --> 00:59:01,480 of things that were sort of disparate and didn't really match with each other. 755 00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:06,520 Um I I especially like that you call out 756 00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:11,440 or you suggest that we call out parks and recreation as a category and natural 757 00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:16,440 areas and green infrastructure as a category because I think they are 758 00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:21,960 serving two very different purposes. Um and I also 759 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:26,680 like that we call out item D future opportunity sites which 760 00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:31,240 I think in s- 761 00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:36,400 I think in separating that out, future developers who are looking at this map 762 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:43,040 are going to be able to hone in on those areas maybe a little easier. 763 00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:48,520 Um and not sort of conflate all parks and natural areas as vacant land. So. 764 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:51,760 » Okay. I appreciate that and one quick comment 765 00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:55,320 about um there was a discussion I think about the 766 00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:58,960 number of categories too and I I tend to recommend fewer categories versus uh 767 00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:03,520 more. Except in some cases it can make a lot 768 01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:08,160 of sense uh to to break up a special category into what is that special uh 769 01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:13,880 I guess. I I think that having fewer categories when it comes to 770 01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:17,880 your major land uses is probably more preferable I think is than than in 771 01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:22,040 the special categories. Um so I think I take your point. Uh one thing sort of 772 01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:25,080 along those lines though is uh what we don't want to do is 773 01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:28,920 is have so many categories that they're essentially zoning districts. 774 01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:32,040 And in the in the same uh in the same breath I guess and I'll talk about this 775 01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:36,080 more when we get to actually design the future land use map but we don't want to 776 01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:41,640 be parcel specific. That's essentially pre-zoning or zoning map, right? So 777 01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:44,960 uh and and sometimes those can I mean the the comprehensive plan is 778 01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:50,440 meant to be a guidance document. So that's why we want to be careful 779 01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:54,400 not having too many uh very specific uh categories and not being too 780 01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:57,200 prescriptive and too granular when we get to the actually design the map. So 781 01:00:56,080 --> 01:01:00,760 just want to mention that in that context. 782 01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:03,880 I think Commissioner Myers-Roberts you were going to 783 01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:08,080 » Yeah. Um with the I guess 784 01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:11,080 I had questions. I I have more comments but I want to start off with a question 785 01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:15,080 about uh section four, the employment plus 786 01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:19,600 innovation categories. I guess 787 01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:23,000 how I get what they are in concept but in terms of like the actual zoning, how 788 01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:25,880 would they differ? At least theoretically since they don't 789 01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:28,560 actually exist yet. >> Mhm. 790 01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:31,960 So, this was in one one section we talked about special districts and 791 01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:36,400 splitting those up. Employment and innovation categories, we have examples 792 01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:40,000 of innovation {slash} research district, employment or flex district, and major 793 01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,640 institutional uses. Um 794 01:01:41,447 --> 01:01:44,840 » [clears throat] >> how that how that would 795 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:48,000 That's a great question. I'm really glad you asked about sort of what's the 796 01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:52,640 comparable zone district cuz that's always a big question. And you want to 797 01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:56,560 generally have once we one outcome of having a future land use 798 01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:59,400 map and future categories is often they'll change your zoning 799 01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:03,120 ordinance to match it. And you might create new zoning districts as well. 800 01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:06,800 That's not contemplated right now. That's a big big job. 801 01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:10,560 Um I don't really know how these would 802 01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:13,160 would match our existing zones. Um 803 01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:17,680 I think that we have, you know, across the board, I think about our commercial 804 01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:21,800 zone districts, say B1 through B5 and EV, which is East Village district. And 805 01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:24,120 how those I mean, those are funny because they 806 01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:28,080 don't really correspond to something. They don't correspond to intensity, for 807 01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:31,640 example. B3 is the downtown district. B4 is a restricted office business 808 01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:35,640 district. B1 is very low intensity business district. So, 809 01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:39,120 it's hard to say how those how these suggestions might correspond to existing 810 01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:42,160 districts. I think that if the commission starts to 811 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:46,400 move in that direction of sort of these special districts that have more of a 812 01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:51,120 thematic like especially about commercial or industrial research or 813 01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:56,280 something uses, I guess. Um that may be that may turn into a new 814 01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:59,400 zone district that's proposed if the current zone districts don't fit. 815 01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,160 Does that does that answer your question? 816 01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:04,720 » Yeah. And another one I have is about the 817 01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:08,040 section above it, um commercial categories. 818 01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:11,840 And the two in the center, uh community 819 01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:16,480 commercial and regional commercial, I guess I don't in my brain those don't 820 01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:20,000 really differ in East Lansing. I feel like the only real places that we have 821 01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:23,000 are I don't know if you can speak to this like how you think they would 822 01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:27,480 differ cuz the only one I'm really thinking of is 823 01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:31,360 right near Eastwood with the Meyer and that sort of thing and maybe 824 01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:33,640 Brookfield Plaza is the other. >> Sure. 825 01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:36,960 » And I I just didn't know if you had a vision of how those could potentially 826 01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:41,120 differ or >> Yeah, I look at that kind of as as far 827 01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:46,080 as the market area. And so if a regional center maybe not maybe be more larger 828 01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:49,840 scale than Meyer, but it would be the area around Meyer including I would 829 01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:54,640 say Eastwood Town Center and that sort of the entire area might be a regional 830 01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:59,000 pull. So a regional destination as far as commercial activity. 831 01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:04,200 I I might see community commercial more likely like like Brookfield Plaza or 832 01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:07,920 I was going to say Harrison in Michigan, but I might call it even smaller 833 01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:10,120 smaller scale and more like neighborhood commercial. 834 01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:13,600 So it's it's these aren't hard and fast 835 01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:16,880 like it's sort of we decide how they how they work, but 836 01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:19,600 generally and these are sort of examples of let's 837 01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:22,040 just get our mind in the right place. You know, so a neighborhood is small, 838 01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:26,680 community is a little bigger, regional is a larger. And I I think I 839 01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:29,920 conceptually agree with you that we probably don't really have any true 840 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:34,640 regional commercial uh districts beyond 841 01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:40,320 I would say downtown, but I'd put that in a mixed use category instead. 842 01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:43,600 » And then not to take up too much time cuz I 843 01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:48,920 but with the same on the commercial section I guess from my mind with the 844 01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:53,800 redevelopment commercial corridors thinking about like East Grand River 845 01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:57,640 in my brain I guess or at least for my thinking 846 01:04:55,720 --> 01:05:01,120 I would like to just go to straight mixed use with that instead of doing a 847 01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:05,400 you know a redevelopment with just 848 01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:09,400 having it be mixed use rather than this other category. I don't 849 01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:11,920 that's just my opinion though. >> Sure. 850 01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:17,960 » And then with the neighborhood commercial I guess I was also I'm in my 851 01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:23,320 thinking about it, in my mind, I don't see where a 852 01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:28,480 low-grade mixed-use wouldn't be just as applicable, I guess, 853 01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:31,560 or better in the sense where it's maybe not the commercial is required, but just 854 01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:34,360 that it's optional. 855 01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:37,360 » Yeah, commercial I tend to differentiate from mixed-use in that it would be 856 01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:39,520 solely commercial. >> Yeah. 857 01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:43,080 » So, you'll see that more in like strip commercial. Like I think you 858 01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:46,000 mentioned along East Grand River, for example, but you could also say, "Yeah, 859 01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:49,160 we want mixed-use." That would be the kind of decision we'd 860 01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:52,400 be making uh when we're designing the future land use map and with a lot more 861 01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:55,760 public participation, too, to make sure it was sort of 862 01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:58,960 in line with public sentiment and and desires. Um 863 01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:02,760 And I also So, I also don't think that we'd have 864 01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:05,840 we shouldn't have that many mixed-use and that many commercial. We don't need 865 01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:10,360 those in this in this town. I think we could have a couple mixed-use and maybe 866 01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:12,880 one or two commercial for those areas that 867 01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:17,440 don't make necessarily make sense to be mixed-use. When I say mixed-use, we're 868 01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:20,920 mixing uses within the buildings. So, typically you have commercial on the 869 01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:24,880 ground floor, like a more of a retail commercial, and then you might have 870 01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:28,560 office or more often residential uses on the upper floors. Um so, that's where 871 01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:31,240 we're saying we're mixing the uses in that that category versus purely 872 01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:35,480 commercial. >> Mhm. 873 01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:35,480 » So, I think you're I think um 874 01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:40,880 Yes, we don't need all of them. I think that it might make sense 875 01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:43,760 And this is This is one way to frame your thinking, too, as you're going 876 01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:47,360 around town going, "What would make sense here?" I think that mixed-use 877 01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:50,680 could be really nice here, but not so much over there. What would make sense 878 01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:54,040 over there? Oh, that may might be commercial community commercial, whereas 879 01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:58,080 this would be a more of a neighborhood mixed-use. So, I think that 880 01:06:56,280 --> 01:07:02,000 that that sort of checking out the community and thinking about what would 881 01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:06,000 make sense here in the existing, and then what we might what may might make 882 01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:08,200 sense how how want to see things go in the future. 883 01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:11,320 Um the map the future land use map category 884 01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:14,200 doesn't have to correspond to reality right now. 885 01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:17,320 It's just what we want to do down the road. 886 01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:20,520 So, I would say think about both of those when you're considering what 887 01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:24,840 categories you want. What do we have right now? What makes sense? 888 01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:28,601 Cuz it's it's not quite like zoning where you have non-conforming uses. 889 01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:31,960 Excuse me. Um >> [clears throat] 890 01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:35,800 » You can when you when you put a category on the future land use map, you're 891 01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:38,120 saying we want this down the road. Um 892 01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:44,320 To to the point earlier I think that both commissioners made about the um 893 01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:47,200 redevelopment commercial corridor or Commissioner Donley mentioned the future 894 01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:50,800 opportunity sites. Uh those are sometimes used by 895 01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:54,280 communities just to say, "Hey, this is a transitional area or something that we 896 01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:58,200 really want to focus on." And that can be helpful as far as directing 897 01:07:56,320 --> 01:08:01,480 incentives, directing grant programs, whatever it might be, you know, state 898 01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:04,720 funding for redevelopment projects. You can say, "Hey, this is really our 899 01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:08,640 priority focus area." Right here. That's why we're designating it as like 900 01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:12,320 redevelopment commercial or future opportunity site. That is a That is a 901 01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:17,040 great way to send a message saying, "If you want to build here, build here cuz 902 01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:20,759 we want to see change there." And some some you don't, and you can also 903 01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:23,680 designate that way as well. >> To that end, and this might be because 904 01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:27,600 we're still in the middle of doing the work group, but I wasn't sure 905 01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:32,480 necessarily in here where a data center would fit. Like what 906 01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:35,960 type of zoning that technically would be. I mean, I would I have been thinking 907 01:08:34,839 --> 01:08:39,279 about I don't think it matters for the sake of discussion today, but I've been 908 01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:43,680 thinking about the under number four, the employment and 909 01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:46,640 innovative categories. Whether I think there's really much of a 910 01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:50,920 difference between the innovative research district and the major 911 01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:53,839 institutional uses. And so, I mean, potentially a major 912 01:08:52,279 --> 01:08:56,839 institutional use would be a data center, but then some of the examples 913 01:08:55,759 --> 01:09:00,759 that we have under the innovative research district is 914 01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:02,839 you know, tech and labs. Um 915 01:09:01,440 --> 01:09:05,600 So, maybe just something to think about for future discussions. 916 01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:09,120 » Well, that's good. And again, these are examples. 917 01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:12,680 » Yeah, just examples. Yep. >> I I I think that I mean, I 918 01:09:11,279 --> 01:09:16,839 I could see an innovation research or research district 919 01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:19,880 that might be a good place to fit. You know, what I didn't really put here is 920 01:09:18,440 --> 01:09:21,400 like heavy industrial. We don't really have heavy industrial uses. 921 01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,520 » No. >> We have very, very little industrial 922 01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:25,080 space. >> Right. 923 01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:27,480 » Uh, I think we have eight properties across the city that are zoned 924 01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:31,480 industrially. Um, so, and that it that might be just 925 01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:35,000 fine. We don't have that many industrial uses cuz there's not that much need for 926 01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:37,880 industrial here. But, where there might be 927 01:09:36,319 --> 01:09:40,040 industrial type uses, but more like light or tech industrial 928 01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:43,680 » Mhm. >> would make a lot of sense in one of 929 01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:48,120 these categories. But, you just would choose. And I mean, 930 01:09:45,480 --> 01:09:52,600 we do want the categories to sort of cover the expanse of land use land uses 931 01:09:50,359 --> 01:09:54,240 possible land uses. >> Okay. 932 01:09:53,279 --> 01:09:55,760 » But, that's more important when it gets to zoning. 933 01:09:54,720 --> 01:10:02,920 » Commissioner Janall. >> Yeah, I um I really liked your comment, 934 01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:06,280 Landon, about um the redevelopment areas. 935 01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:11,200 Um, and I know I pointed out future opportunity sites, um and Commissioner 936 01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:16,960 Ramirez Roberts pointed out um redevelopment commercial corridors. I 937 01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:21,800 actually under item six, where it says redevelopment focus areas, I actually 938 01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:27,440 really like that very broad category so that we're maybe not 939 01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:31,280 signaling to the in in too much detail about what 940 01:10:29,480 --> 01:10:37,160 type of redevelopment we might want to see in a certain location, but we might 941 01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:42,640 be open to all types of redevelopment in a certain area, right? I think a lot 942 01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:48,760 about East Grand River and how those right? Immense parking lots could be 943 01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:53,200 going towards a much higher, better use. Um, and so, I'd hate to point to that 944 01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:58,440 area and say, "Oh, sorry, we only want commercial redevelopment here." Why not 945 01:10:55,720 --> 01:11:03,320 put housing there, right? And so, I think if we if we as a 946 01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:08,000 commissioner are really interested in targeting areas for redevelopment, maybe 947 01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:12,600 I would argue for keeping those more broad and just seeing what comes our 948 01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:15,234 way. >> I think that there Sorry for me. Um 949 01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:18,680 » Mhm. Yeah. >> [clears throat] 950 01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:22,760 » That that that's a fine approach. I would suggest though that it can be you 951 01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:26,600 have to be careful sometimes. If it's if it's broad and not 952 01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:30,080 Like if it's a large area without specificity because you can end up with 953 01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:32,400 things right now we have for example special study area. 954 01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:36,160 Uh northeast area of town is the South 955 01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:40,120 Farm. It was annexed from Bath 25 years ago. 956 01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:43,840 And that's a special study area. And presumably in 2018 957 01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:47,360 we were going to study that, but it didn't really it didn't really specify 958 01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:50,720 how do we want to study this, you know, what is that what are the outcomes we're 959 01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:54,160 looking for here? Do we have a timeline? Who's going to be the champion? And 960 01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:57,680 and we want to sort of think about that if we're going to do some sort of a 961 01:11:55,160 --> 01:12:02,000 redevelopment area. Like be a little more specific about what 962 01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:05,520 what kind of focus is this? And do we have a timeline? 963 01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:08,760 If we do have specific uses that we want to see, 964 01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:10,240 let's sort of include those in the description. 965 01:12:09,480 --> 01:12:14,880 » Mhm. >> I at this point in the whole the process 966 01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:17,920 though I'd caution against thinking too closely. 967 01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:21,280 You want to use specific areas and like locations in town to help frame your 968 01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:24,120 your thoughts. >> Mhm. 969 01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:28,200 » But I would caution against saying yep, what I want is this right here. This 970 01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:31,800 category right here because we'll get to that. And we want to really focus on the 971 01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:35,480 categories first real large before we start focusing on 972 01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:38,800 specific locations. We'll get to that. We'll get to specific 973 01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:41,640 specific locations for sure. >> For sure, Damon. 974 01:12:39,440 --> 01:12:47,240 » Yes, so that's a perfect segue to my comment. Really I'm sort of at this 975 01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:51,920 point macro here um and not necessarily down in the detail which we'll get to 976 01:12:49,480 --> 01:12:56,600 and is very important. Um but I appreciate you pushing us on this. 977 01:12:54,160 --> 01:13:00,880 Landon and I think I'm going to I don't mind saying I'm going to rely in large 978 01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:06,280 part on your leadership to sort of move us in a direction that makes sense for 979 01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:11,440 the community at large. I know you need our input as we've suggested tonight, 980 01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:17,880 but you've impressed upon me that we need to push on this, make some changes, 981 01:13:14,480 --> 01:13:24,960 update different contexts, new day, and I think I'm all on board to do that. 982 01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:29,360 So, keep pushing us and provide your leadership and I'll be paying attention. 983 01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:31,920 Just letting you know that. All right. Thank you. 984 01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:40,960 » Oh, sorry. Uh Commissioner Ramirez Alberts. 985 01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:44,160 » Yeah, so when it comes to the one and two, the residential land use, 986 01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:47,720 so uh with urban residential, the high 987 01:13:46,440 --> 01:13:53,600 intensity, I don't know in my mind if 988 01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:57,320 we're looking at the land use, we're an area where we would want high 989 01:13:55,520 --> 01:14:02,560 urban residential where we wouldn't also want the urban center mixed use. So, I 990 01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:06,320 feel like that wouldn't be as necessary category to me. 991 01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:10,600 And then also with the campus related housing 992 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:13,920 versus the campus interface mixed use, I feel like 993 01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:17,480 probably also the campus interface mixed use might be better. I'm assuming that's 994 01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:22,040 more people per room and that sort of thing that's allowed. Not per room, but 995 01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:24,960 more beds allowed, I guess. >> Oh, it it 996 01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:27,560 No idea. >> I mean, it would it would kind of depend 997 01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:30,200 on how we design these. >> Yeah. 998 01:14:28,480 --> 01:14:34,680 » We're we're at a blank slate right now. So, if we say campus related mixed use, 999 01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:39,160 what does that mean? I mean, college town type stores. You know, there's 1000 01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:44,040 maybe a certain format and more student housing versus we don't want to see 1001 01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:46,680 purposeful student housing in maybe a in the low intensity neighborhood 1002 01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:51,040 residential. Uh so, I mean, and we don't have to have 1003 01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:53,800 all the categories of residential and all the categories of mixed use as well. 1004 01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:59,040 It could be low and high or low and medium 1005 01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:03,880 residential and we sort of define in there what that means. 1006 01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:06,920 And then start with medium intensity mixed use. We don't need a low intensity 1007 01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:09,680 because we don't have those. As an example. 1008 01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:15,720 I think I'm taking your your comment, but I'm I'm not sure if 1009 01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,920 you're asking a question or if I'm answering 1010 01:15:17,480 --> 01:15:22,600 » No, no. I think it was just a comment. >> Perfect. Thanks. 1011 01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:25,720 » Other questions or comments for Landon tonight? 1012 01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:30,320 » Yes, I I this is more a comment than a question, but at some point we're going 1013 01:15:27,440 --> 01:15:35,040 to see all of these categories and see how the city of East Lansing dumps into 1014 01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:41,000 those categories and we'll be able to look at at at at how we see the pieces 1015 01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:46,000 fit together and that's what's going to be most helpful to me is is seeing how 1016 01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:51,200 it shakes out and then and then I can make a decision on whether I think this 1017 01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:55,960 is accurate or not and in in the detail. Um and I also repeat something that 1018 01:15:53,440 --> 01:15:59,040 we've already said, but I really welcome that we're going to have categories that 1019 01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:05,480 we can can can look at rather than simply 1020 01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:10,560 letters and numbers. Um the the the existing zoning I'm going to have to sit 1021 01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:15,200 next to you, Landon, at the quiz or I'm going to flunk it. And so I'm hoping 1022 01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:18,760 that I will have a better grasp of that with with the new changes. 1023 01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:22,840 » Commissioner Jean >> Um 1024 01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:29,280 I was just looking at some of the examples again that you gave us, Landon, 1025 01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:34,520 and I see some of these have won awards from the APA. 1026 01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:40,720 And I think I would be really interested to hear more about 1027 01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:44,800 why these particular future land use maps 1028 01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:48,920 were recognized for being 1029 01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:52,160 excellent [snorts] examples. Um 1030 01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:57,160 whether that's, you know, commentary from the APA when they gave that award 1031 01:16:54,120 --> 01:17:01,040 or whether that's like your reasoning for why you chose them. 1032 01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:06,240 Um it would be really helpful for me to 1033 01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:13,160 understand why these are good examples, for instance, so that we can maybe apply 1034 01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:13,160 some of that as we're making decisions. 1035 01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:18,760 » That's That's very helpful feedback. And I'm wondering if I can ask the whole 1036 01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:22,520 commission. Do you have How How can I guide you 1037 01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:24,920 the best? How would How would be I do have specific other specifics cuz I 1038 01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:29,000 think that's a really good suggestion and I can get that information. Is there 1039 01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:32,920 other Would you like me to be recommending certain things or 1040 01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:37,520 shaking it like narrowing this the field or widening it? 1041 01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:40,120 I What would be helpful for you as we go to the next meeting? 1042 01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:45,440 » Excuse me, if I could jump in. >> I assume that the organizations that 1043 01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:49,920 made these decisions said this was really good had some 1044 01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:54,960 criteria that they used to make those decisions. And And if we had that 1045 01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:58,320 criterion shared with us, then we could know that this particular 1046 01:17:57,400 --> 01:18:02,000 uh configuration was good for these 1047 01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:06,720 reasons. Um so, I would find that helpful. And 1048 01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:11,320 And And that dovetail with with your questions. 1049 01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:14,480 » I think for me, um I obviously not being a planning or zoning expert, I would 1050 01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:18,160 appreciate some recommendations that we could react to. I think that's probably 1051 01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:21,120 when we can or I should speak for myself. That's when I can give the best 1052 01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:24,160 feedback um is when there's a recommendation on the table. Um the 1053 01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:27,000 other thing that would be helpful and I know we've done this where we've talked 1054 01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:30,400 about this in the past, but I don't think we necessarily need to recreate 1055 01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:35,200 the wheel. There are other cities and cities that are like us that 1056 01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:38,160 are adjacent to a a large university. And it would be helpful I think for me 1057 01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:43,560 to see a um maybe even like a table of how other 1058 01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:50,120 similar kind of university centered cities have zoned 1059 01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:53,680 like what their land use maps look like. >> I'm laying out my 1060 01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:58,520 board. >> That's right. 1061 01:18:57,000 --> 01:19:00,880 » So, um 1062 01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:04,760 you know, I'm all about the recommendations and actually if you have 1063 01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:09,840 a vision here, I would even encourage you to share your vision with us and 1064 01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:12,840 then we dissect that and you know, you would have some logic 1065 01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:17,200 behind that vision. I've, you know, talked with you enough 1066 01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:22,840 to understand that you do have a picture of what this might look like 1067 01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:27,840 for a college town in Midwest United States and I think I'd I'd love 1068 01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:33,120 to see your recommendations and respond to that. 1069 01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:33,120 So, I think that would be great. 1070 01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:38,880 Commissioner LaPointe Okay, good. I'm sorry. 1071 01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,840 » All right. Any other comments tonight? Does that 1072 01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:44,440 give you enough to go on? >> Oh, yeah. 1073 01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:46,840 It's very helpful. Yeah. >> Okay. 1074 01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:51,560 » It's it's all good. >> All right, we'll close that portion of 1075 01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:54,960 the agenda and move on to new business. 1076 01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:58,360 I don't think we have any new business to discuss. 1077 01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:00,960 Commissioner concerns item nine on the agenda, any commissioner concerns that 1078 01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:04,520 you'd like to share? >> I actually do. 1079 01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:09,320 I would like to share a concern and although this is scripted, but it's 1080 01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:14,400 I just feel a need to talk about something. I don't really have an 1081 01:20:10,440 --> 01:20:19,880 outcome here that I conclude with, but I want to talk about the Albert Avenue 1082 01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:24,960 apartment project. I know that we spent a lot of time with 1083 01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:29,440 a developer. I know that the developer spent a lot of time in our city. 1084 01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:35,600 He made a lot of recommendations and suggestions. We made recommendations and 1085 01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:39,680 suggestions. The city council did, DDA did, planning commission did. 1086 01:20:38,480 --> 01:20:43,760 Um in my mind it aligned with the 1087 01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:50,960 comprehensive plan. Um and I think I'm not I I respect the 1088 01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:55,920 city council. I respect our process. I'm not suggesting that that was flawed, 1089 01:20:53,760 --> 01:21:02,000 but I do think that was a pretty big deal in my mind 1090 01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:07,560 and I think we need to maybe not let that float down the river and say 1091 01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:12,160 bygones be bygones, but rather be a little introspective about what we may 1092 01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:17,000 have done differently, what we could do differently in the future 1093 01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:22,480 if a project comes our way. And I don't know the entire backstory. 1094 01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:30,560 Um I know what was reported in the newspaper about parking. Um 1095 01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:35,240 I I don't I don't This was a a pretty big deal 1096 01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:39,000 in my mind. Speak just for myself here. And I think 1097 01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:45,760 to just let this pass and maybe it's a dead deal. I don't know if it is or not. 1098 01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:50,240 I know our mayor is with us tonight. Um but if it is, I think we need to be a 1099 01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:54,520 little introspective about the time that our staff spent, about the time the 1100 01:21:52,320 --> 01:22:01,920 planning commission spent, about the time the developer spent, and then to 1101 01:21:57,120 --> 01:22:05,080 get to the final step and have it all dissipate. 1102 01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:08,880 I think we need to be a little introspective. What could we have done 1103 01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:14,120 differently as a city of East Lansing? I want to be 1104 01:22:10,480 --> 01:22:16,640 a city that embraces new ideas, development. 1105 01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:21,640 Um You know, we don't approve everything, 1106 01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:26,720 but do we move this development along the way for a couple of years with 1107 01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:30,960 adjustments left and right, and then get to the final meeting and 1108 01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:34,080 and we we say no. It just doesn't sit well with me, and 1109 01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:39,000 I'm just I don't Again, I said I'm not scripting 1110 01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:44,640 here. I'm not suggesting that I disrespect the city council or the 1111 01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:48,600 process or anybody along the way, but collectively, the city of East Lansing 1112 01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:54,000 in my mind, we sort of fumbled this in some way 1113 01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:57,560 somehow, and I'm not sure what that is, and 1114 01:22:55,040 --> 01:23:02,000 um how we might do something a little bit differently. And I'm kind of put 1115 01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:05,400 myself out there. Others are going to disagree with me. 1116 01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:09,720 Uh so be it. Uh it is a concern. In my mind, it sort 1117 01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:13,160 of lines up with the commissioner concern. So I share those thoughts 1118 01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:16,440 tonight. Um 1119 01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:19,920 and period. So be it. 1120 01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:25,320 » Thank you. Any other commissioner concerns? Yes. 1121 01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:30,240 » I actually had a a couple tonight. So, I know last year the the the sheets on uh 1122 01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:33,080 Saginaw and Abbott was approved. Nothing's happened there. Is that 1123 01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:34,560 project still moving forward? >> It is. 1124 01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:37,920 » Okay. >> Uh my understanding was they were 1125 01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:40,680 waiting on some state approval for, I believe, some site work, and they've 1126 01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:44,280 gotten that approval. So they should be moving ahead fairly soon. 1127 01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:47,120 » Okay. And the other one is I'm forgetting the architect. It's the 1128 01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:50,920 building that got taken over by the I It's 1129 01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:53,960 the Michigan Doctors Association Medical >> Michigan Medical Association. 1130 01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:58,160 » Yeah, Medical Association. I remember I spoke 1131 01:23:55,840 --> 01:24:02,120 uh a few years back about them cutting down the trees, and I believe as part of 1132 01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:05,840 that we had a the planning commission had a landscape 1133 01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:09,400 plan that was approved, and I don't know if that was a requirement of those trees 1134 01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:12,040 being cut down, but it doesn't look like they ever implemented the landscaping 1135 01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:15,680 plan. I drove by that yesterday. I'm like, 1136 01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:19,800 nothing's changed here. So I didn't know if 1137 01:24:17,960 --> 01:24:23,080 essentially, was that a requirement of cutting down 1138 01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:26,560 those trees and coming for here for commission to implement 1139 01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:29,480 that landscaping plan? >> They were required to add some more 1140 01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:32,680 trees. I'll follow up on that with our environmental staff and get back to you 1141 01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:37,800 to make sure to find out what the status is. 1142 01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:37,800 » Any other commissioner concerns? 1143 01:24:39,480 --> 01:24:46,720 Okay, great. We're going to move on to adjournment. Can I would like to ask for 1144 01:24:43,520 --> 01:24:49,400 a motion to adjourn at 7:47 p.m. >> So moved. 1145 01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:52,520 » So moved. >> Seconded by 1146 01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:55,840 moved by Commissioner Overby, seconded by Commissioner Chapin. All those in 1147 01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:58,480 favor, please say I. >> I. 1148 01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:02,120 » Perfect. Thanks, guys. >> Okay.