The mayor just started.
All right, we're going to start this
council committee meeting. Um,
first up is Julie.
» Oh, I actually have copies of the
presentation.
Hey Julie,
>> just want to take one.
>> Julie, while you were starting that
about the hydrants, I just got an email
just now. The fire hydrant at Ferry and
Sick Graves has the front off of it. Is
that because of what we're doing?
>> No.
Okay. Okay.
» Did you know that?
>> No, but I knew now
doesn't matter. It's not turned on that
the the valve the the valve covers come
off. You got to turn the bolt at the
top.
>> I didn't know it was coming off.
>> No.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. So, hello. Um I'm Julie. This is
Tony. He's the chair of our uh design
committee for East and Main Street
Initiative. a little bit about our
design committee. It's completely
volunteer-run committee and we just um
think of ways that we could spruce
things up specifically in the in the
main street uh district. Uh so over the
years the main street design committee
has done stuff like the little free
libraries and the artistic bike racks um
the string lights and bank street all
that good stuff. So that's us. Um so a
little bit about the paint a hydrant
program. So Tony actually brought this
idea to our committee uh because he saw
it in
>> Emmas.
>> Um so a lot of towns all over the
country do it. Um but the idea is to
take submissions from local artists and
then assign them to fire hydrants around
town to make them a little more
beautiful and not just yellow. Um last
year when we launched it, the response
was really overwhelming. We had a lot of
artists apply um and we reviewed all of
them and then we sent them all to the
fire department to review um and they
approved all of them. There was so they
do take a close look at it because there
was one hydrant design last year that
ended up like we had to fix it. So they
did a bunch. It's the one on spring
garden and third they did a bunch of
flowers and it had a black background
and Chief uh Hennings was like it can't
have a black background. It's going to
like blend into the environment too
much. Okay. The reason why you're here
tonight, just so you know, those
hydrants are owned by the city. So, city
council has to give permission, not the
fire chief.
>> Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, "This
time we got to go to council." So, my
apologies. We uh got it approved by the
fire department.
>> Most people don't understand that.
>> Yeah.
>> Don't worry about it.
>> Um so, yeah, but they did look at a
close eye and considered the safety and
the appearance of all of them. So, that
artist, we were like, "Hey, you have to
change your black background to white."
Um and it wasn't an issue. Uh, another
thing is all the artists do sign a lot
of agreements. Things like you have to
understand that if something happens to
the fire hydrant, it has to be replaced
or anything like that's just going to
happen. The artwork might not be
permanent. Um, if it's an instance like
on ferry and sick greaves right now,
like it might be damaged. Um, and they
all understood that and they understand
that it's a thing that needs to be used.
Uh, so that that's all laid out very
clearly in the in the application. Um,
so yeah. Uh, so year one we did 11
hydrants. Um, all on
Yeah. Oh, okay. So, we did um on East
and Fourth Friday, we had all of the
artists out at the same time painting
the hydrants, so people could walk
around and like meet and talk to all the
artists. Um, it was super cool. It was
the fourth Friday in September. The news
actually came and did like a whole piece
on it. So, it was really well received
by the public and um, everyone was like,
"Oh, I wish I knew about this. I would
have submitted a design." And so that's
why we're hoping to do um a second round
for 2026 if approved.
Um yeah, so so like I said, we we did a
lot of um we we put a lot of thought
into making sure that it was safe,
making sure that it was okay with the
fire department. Um so one of the things
that's also listed in the application is
like when you're thinking of your
design, like try to make sure it has
elements of yellow in it so it still has
that like fire hydrant feel. um and
making sure that people again understand
that emergency operations take
precedence. And then um we also
took we we wanted to make sure that the
artists were safe because they're like
sitting on the sidewalk uh very close to
the street painting the hydrants. So we
coordinated with uh John Spedoni and he
lended us some traffic cones. So we gave
each hydrant artist a traffic cone to
put out while they were out there
painting. So, basically how it worked is
once we approved their designs, uh, they
picked up a little art kit at the public
market, which was mason jars with all of
the paint colors that they applied for
and a traffic cone and a bunch of paint
brushes and wipes and all that good
stuff. Um, another thing about the paint
is we actually reached out to the people
who did this inas. We were like, what's
the best paint for like a fire hydrant?
Um, and they gave us this really I
forget what it's called now, but this
really awesome paint that I mean the
fire hydrants, it's been a year now and
they have held up like beautifully.
there's been no chipping and it's gone
through all the snow and rain and all
that good stuff. So, I'm I'm very happy
about uh the paint that we've used for
the hydrants. So, nobody's bringing
their own paint, a solid paint that we
got. Um yeah.
Uh so, I just provided uh along with the
slides a sample of the application so
you can see like what they're looking at
when they apply. This was the
application for last year. So, it would
be exactly the same this year. The only
thing we would change is the dates. Um
like you have to be there for the fourth
Friday painting event. Um mostly for a
photo op. they can still paint like
before or after. Um that's just so we
have one day where everyone's out there
at the same time. Um and then some of
the design requirements and emergency
operations, things like that. And then
yeah, so basically they they fill out
the application and then they actually
just color it in like a coloring book
and we take a look at the design and
send it over to the fire department.
Um, so planning for 2026. I'm going to
leave that to Tony so he can tell you um
why we selected the locations that we
did that we're hoping to get approved.
>> All right. Thank you, Julie. Um, so
yeah, we're trying to plan for six more
hydrants uh downtown here this year.
Again, this is just going to be within
the East and Main Street initiative uh
downtown district. So that's why it's
very limited to, you know, up there by
Bushkill um going to the river and then
going up to Sixth Street on the west
side. So, we selected six locations more
so to the north to go kind of like
bridge the gap between downtown and
Lafayette. We picked one by uh Scott
Park there because it's, you know, it's
very much frequented for the farmers
market on Saturdays and also one at the
400 block of Northampton just to kind of
pay homage to, you know, the hotel fire
that happened this year. And then the
confluence as well um down there by
McDonald's.
This is just more of a description of of
where these locations are. Um, again,
the intention that the design committee
had with selecting these were to bridge
the gap through art between Lafayette
College and downtown, give attention to
the 400 block of Northampton after the
fire and highlight the the riverfront.
So, we're really just asking, you know,
city council support for these six
locations or if there's any comments
that council has or if they'd want to
see another one somewhere different.
» South.
>> So, I was going to mention that it's
Main Street,
>> so they can only do down here, but I so
I chair the Southside Spark, which got
the MPP grant. So, I'm going to send an
email to people on the board and you two
tomorrow because there's money there so
you guys can meet with them so we can
bring that into the Southside and then
we'll look at doing that into the West
W. Um because I think it looks good
downtown and I think the Southside, the
West W, College Hill neighborhoods can
use some of that as well. I think
there's a way we can we can do that. It
doesn't I think it's a significant cost.
Um, and we can get the artist. So, I'm
going to email you two and copy them
tonight or tomorrow so we can get a
meeting and see how we can get this into
the three different neighborhoods.
>> Yeah, that'd be fantastic.
>> Thank you.
>> Yeah, the program costs basically
nothing. I think we spent like $500 on
paint last year and that was our only
cost and we still have a bunch of paint
left over. So,
>> beautiful. We're going to need that.
>> And all the all the artists, I mean,
they were volunteer artists. So,
>> I think it's a great program. They came
out really well and I just being
downtown every day I see people stopping
taking photos or kids like tracing the
designs and it's just a neat little
feature. It's something you would
normally overlook and it's just a neat
pop of color as you walk through
downtown.
>> Well done.
>> Absolutely. Very good. Thank you guys.
>> Thank you.
» Christian and Officer Crossen.
There they are. I couldn't see you. I
didn't know where you went to. I knew
you were here, but I didn't know where
you went.
>> They're going to give us an update on
the uh and success stories of the recent
outcomes of the homeless population.
» Hi, Jeff.
>> We brought some friends with us, Safe
Harbor Stream team.
>> Um we just wanted to give you a quick
Kristen, I'm sorry. Can you speak in
directly into the microphone?
>> Sorry.
>> Thank you. Much better.
>> Um, we just wanted to give a quick
update. Um, we've been out there. Um,
fortunately, we've had uh some help for
officer crossing out there. We've had
another officer out on a bike. I think
two days out of
two or three out of five. He can give
more information on that, but we've had
um an increase in contacts with people.
We've been able to get so far this year
42 people into some level of treatment.
>> Now that this year,
>> yes, this year, but in full
transparency, that number does represent
some individuals that were helped to get
into treatment multiple times. Um, so
that number is out there.
We've also had um people that have been
arrested for violating the law in the
city or violating ordinances. We've had
an increase in that also. um addressing
the issues uh the quality of life issues
that are happening that are being
brought uh to our attention. I think
there were after this afternoon 67 or 68
arrests of individuals um breaking the
law and officer crossing can talk more
about that if you have questions. Um and
of those 42 were individual people. So
we have quite a few people that we know
are problematic and they're refusing
treatment and we're just kind of in this
cycle right now. are still trying. Um,
but we wanted to really focus today.
>> Kristen, I'm sorry. The 4267 whatever we
just mentioned, those are confirmed
unhoused or are they just people that
were familiar with downtown?
>> So, those are people we're familiar with
downtown that are transient. Most of
those folks are coming over from New
Jersey during the day.
>> Right. Okay.
>> That's what we're seeing.
>> So, they're not east and unhoused.
They're just issues that we're having
problems with these people. Right. Okay.
All right. Thank you. So, with
everything that's been happening locally
with different cities and encampments
and things like that, we've had an
increase in people from out of the area.
Um, we've had police departments in New
Jersey bringing people here in patrol
cars.
>> I see now.
>> So, we've we've really been trying to
stay on top of it. Um, we also received
Safe Harbor received a call from an
individual who was unhoused in New
Jersey and went for supportive services
and the shelter there told them that
they can help him by giving him a bus
ticket to Easton. That was their
solution for this man. Um, and he had
the wits about him to call Safe Harbor
and be like, "Hey, just so you know,
every person that is unhoused that comes
through this shelter is essentially
being told their option is a bus pass to
East."
Um, so,
>> so Chris, we've been hearing this for a
couple years.
>> Is there a way to combat it? Is there a
solution? It's not fair to the people
here that need help because we're using
our resources and everything to help
people that are coming just to take
advantage of services. Is there any way
between Safe Harbor, police, us? So I
what I can say is and they can everybody
can chime in on this too because we all
kind of have our own ideas and thoughts
but um we're working part of the reason
for bringing safe harbor today was just
um so that everyone can um ask any of us
questions because we are working so
closely together on these individuals.
Um a lot of individuals that are not
from here and want to get back to where
they came from. We coordinate with Safe
Harbor and Safe Harbor has a some
funding and we can get people back to
where home is for them. We've had quite
a few people like released from prison
that aren't necessarily from Eastn, but
the prison's here, so they're here. Um,
and Safe Harbor has been incredible
helping us find placement for people.
Um, and if we call them and say, "Hey,
we have an individual that needs support
that is from East and needs the
resources," they are they're going to
make it happen. They're I mean
incredible with that. So I don't know if
anybody else
>> Chris just a quick question. One of my
staff brought it to my attention that uh
Philsburg and even down to Warren County
don't have a place that can save her.
>> They do not
>> and that then what you just said was
absolutely what you told me that they
just sent them over there.
>> Newton, New Jersey.
>> Yeah. We had
>> Newton New Jersey. [clears throat]
the people that called them said
[snorts] Newton stopped somebody Newton
New Jersey which is an hour away
>> hour and a half uh stopped this guy told
him
if you want services you can go to
Easton and then two other places in New
Jersey
>> but we were one of the options he gave
us the bus pass two here basically
because they're the draw so
>> we did call him back and speak with them
he had no reason to call us they had no
reason to call them either we don't know
them we never dealt with him because I
just want you guys to know that this is
happening and it's happening a lot. So,
the only thing we can really do to
combat it is just stay on top of it
really just by being out there all the
time and knowing everybody. That's why I
have the relationship with Jeff and
Sarah is that we talk to each other all
the time when they see new people coming
in out of nowhere. We communicate it.
So, it's a lot easier to know the faces
and then you guys agree that there's an
uptake out.
» Go ahead, sir.
>> I just also want to be clear. So, as far
as we go, um, at Safe Harbor, when we
uh, intake someone to our shelter, um,
female referrals go through myself, male
referrals go through Jeff. We've both
got over a decade of experience in Safe
Harbor, um, and the work that we're
doing. So, we do a specific interview to
get certain background information about
the individual that is referred to us
and part of that interview is kind of
determining where that individual is
coming from and where their roots are.
We do prioritize Eastern or Northampton
County residents at Safe Harbor. So, um,
if someone is referred to us either from
Kristen and Officer Crossen, um, or if
they're just a walk-in, we are usually
asking, "Hey, where were you last?" And
one of the questions that we always ask
is, "Do you have family support system,
housing of any kind in any place other
than here?" Um and that is because not
only are we trying to reduce the burden
locally, right, for individuals who
might be unhoused, but also because if
that individual has already established
a support network or services elsewhere,
it is much more simple and
cost-effective to relocate that
individual to where they have supports
rather than to try to reopen and
reestablish them in a whole new area
being east and north county. Right? So
that is something that on our end on the
shelter side is being done. Um the other
thing that we've done is we identified a
need several years ago um which has been
aided by both Chris and Officer Crossen
and then um the new officer who's
working as well. He
uh well officer Crossson at one point
had kind of talked to us about the fact
that we do end up with folks who tend to
kind of end up stranded in East End. And
so one of the things that we've done at
Safe Harbor is secured grant funding for
emergency um transportation assistance.
So if anyone from EPD comes across an
individual who does have those supports
in another area, Safe Harbor is able to
step in and provide that assistance to
get the individual back where they
already have established supports or
family who are willing to provide
housing.
>> I hope that helps.
>> So it does. Well, not really to my
question.
>> Sure. But I think everybody here knows
and and whoever knows the four of you
know you guys are doing an amazing job.
My question more along the lines of how
can we be more preventative? I don't
know from our solicitor if if we find
because we've had the mayor, we've had
police officers witness uh uh Betham
people get dropped off here from Betham,
New York, New Jersey, whatever. A way to find them if we have proof. Reason
being, you guys are doing great, but
there's only four of you. the more
people that keep coming, you're not
going to be able to keep up with it,
right? And and we can't raise taxes on
residents and and on struggling families
here to help support people that aren't
from here. So, there's there's got to be
some type of way we can be proactive. I
mean, you guys are doing a great job
with what you're doing, but how much
more can you really take on in the city,
right? I mean, you know, we talked
yesterday. I met mayor with the
residents from the senior house across
from uh
>> so our police are doing a great job
monitoring the circle in downtown but
now they're going over there.
>> We had a woman that was defecating on
the tree uh uh in the back in the
courtyard. They're smoking drugs.
They're doing this or doing that.
>> She was housed. She was the housed
individual and we got her treatment
yesterday. She is in treatment at
>> She
around 1:00.
>> Right. So, but but the point is there's
so many more people coming.
>> Yeah. We can't, you know what I mean? We
can't keep up with it and we can't tax
residents and put the burden on eastern
people to help people from other other
places because their municipalities
don't want to deal with it. So, there's
got to be a way that we could be
preventative or penalize these
municipalities when we catch them
dropping their people off.
>> So, we have found Officer Cross and
myself, um, like three years ago,
everyone knows when we kind of started
this, we were really trying to piece it
together and figure out what's going to
work and what's not going to work. And
what we found is that the sooner we
identify someone as kind of being
transient through the city, not really
kind of just an out ofplace situation or
being unhoused or when Safe Harbor
identifies someone, we're making contact
as quickly as possible and as frequently
as possible. The reason being, for
instance, we had a woman um kind of way
out there and her son was caring for
her. She had mobility issues.
Talk to her. She's on the street
sleeping outside. what's going on? Oh,
well, I was evicted in New Jersey. I
have services in New Jersey. I maxed out
from this service in New Jersey. So,
they told me to go to Pennsylvania. And
I said, "The best thing you can do for
yourself is go back to New Jersey where
you have benefits established because to
restart that process here is a is a
whole big can of worms." And she
listened to that. So, that's kind of
been the way we've been. Now, sometimes
it works, sometimes it doesn't, but
that's kind of what we've been doing to
try and keep up with it is getting
people back to where they were last
established or where they have supports.
Um, there were
quite a few I mean, just in I would say
this year we probably had 10 people that
weren't from this area and just kind of
landed here. Um, that we with Safe
Harbor have been able to get back to
where they have supports and resources.
Um, but as far as
>> just forget it, I don't do it. Just what
we were talking about before, they had
received the money. We just had this
happen. I didn't get to tell you guys,
one
>> and there was another guy we got. We
found he was thrown out of the prison
yet was ever released from the prison.
Was stuck here. We worked with Safe
Harbor to get him a bus ticket out to
State College. Right. For whatever
reason, he had to go back to State
College. They received the funding for
it, bought the bus ticket. We went down,
picked him up, brought him to the
terminal, put him on the bus, out he
went.
15 minutes before this meeting started,
I saw him at Second in Northampton.
>> Oh,
>> that's my point.
>> Yeah, that was my next question. Are you
seeing these people coming back?
>> They do come back.
>> You you can just that it's just the
hustle of just continuously
monitoring because literally I just
drove by them. I'm like, what are you
doing back?
>> But my question is and I know our
solicitor has something to say. They
come out of North Hampton County Prison,
they have nowhere to go. I I get that.
Or people that are just traveling. I get
that. My biggest concern is
>> other police departments and things
dropping them off here. That's what I'm
talking about combating.
>> Been going on for so long.
>> That's the thing. Everybody knows in
Warren County that we have safe.
>> Exactly.
>> Right. They know it exists. So the
easiest thing they can say is, "Hey
boss, I'm going to take them over to
safe harbor." They don't care that they
don't have a bed. They don't
>> They just do it and they drop them off
in the cover of night and they take off.
So I it's been going on for as long I've
been here 16 years going long as I've
been here.
>> So my question is do we have any
leverage when we catch those.
>> So legally I don't know how much
leverage the city has because people
have a right to travel. Now legally is
different than politically and public
relations and the one thing we need is
data and information and there are going
to be groups and organizations in this
area say some people in those areas
might be glad they might say fine ship
them out of here make them not our
problem but there are going to be other
people who do recognize that that's a
horrible thing to do some is take them
away from where their roots are just
because of their living circumstances
and send them an hour two hour 2 hours
by car, an hour by car, that's a
lifetime by foot.
>> So I think that's where gathering the
data to get that information and there
are levers. There is pressure that can
be put, but it's more in the political
and public relations arena directly than
illegal. Now there may be issues with
regard to civil rights that are being
violated depending on what kind of
pressure is being put on people, but
that would be an issue for them those
people who don't always have the
resources to take up. There also may be
something specifically that can be done
to integrate between the city to
communicate between the city and the
county with regards specifically to
there's probably there is probably some
room to work with the county
specifically on the issues of when
people are being discharged. Like when
someone maxes out there's there's
nothing you can do. If they're maxed
out, they're maxed out. But there has to
be a way to coordinate that with with
the prison so you're not dumping
somebody who's not from Easton out on
the street at 2 in the morning from
Northampton County Prison.
>> That would be huge. That's
>> I mean I'm sure there's got to be some
kind of coordination that can be
accomplished uh with the county.
>> Um I can reach out to um I can reach out
at least to the county. I can talk to
people at the county and see what the ability to coordinate with the
city on that specific issue is. But as
far as the the other issue, it's really
going to lie more in the political and
public relations realm. But I think to
get there, we need the data. We need to
know where these what which
municipalities are doing this. Where is
it coming from? And get hard so we can
say no, this is these are the eight
people in the last six months that were
dropped off here from your municipality,
by your police department, or were
directed here by this shelter that's
getting funding from you. Like I think
that's what we need is the information.
And I and just to thank you very much,
Mike. Just to be clear, you know, when
people just when life brings them here,
>> we I think we do an amazing job
providing and trying to find resources
for them. My concern is to your point,
you know, there was one of our officers
witnessed a locally municipal local
municipality in a police car drop their
people off in the circle. And when our
police officer asked him what's going
on, he said, "I have no idea. They
picked me up here and said and threw me
in the car and they just dropped me off
here." that's that's a violation for
them and for us and and you know we need
to be able to do something
>> and that's also something where it's the
same thing where if it's within
Northampton County there's there may be
some benefit to tracking that
information and trying to interface with
the county
>> to turn around and maybe put some
downward pressure on the other
municipalities to be like look this is
not how the county is supposed to
function we're not just pushing
>> pushing east is a great place to
But it doesn't mean that you should be
dumping people here.
>> Absolutely. So,
>> so I'm going to send an email tonight to
our county executive and the mayor and
scowls or whatever and we'll all get
together and I'll get some council
members and we'll talk about how we can
work better on that and I'll get you you
two involved as well. We just have to
sit down and find out how we can
>> do better. It might be beneficial to
loop in like not just the county but the
court system because the individual that
came back from State College. He came
back because he had a court hearing and
he didn't want to get a warrant. And two
weeks ago we had another guy that got a
warrant in Pittsburgh, he came back here
stranded, nowhere to go, but he had to
stay in the area
>> because he had another hearing in a
month. So he's trying to get his life in
order, but like
>> his services are in Pittsburgh. So,
>> who's the who's the president judge now?
>> It's still Craig Dailyy.
>> Okay.
>> Um,
>> I'm not sure if we can streamline that
in any way.
>> Office in the email.
>> Just thinking the bus station right
below us. I think a lot of them are
coming in on the buses. If they're
coming in from Morristown, New Jersey or
Essex County, they're not just being
dropped off. They're coming buses. a way
to kind of capt.
» They're getting dropped off here too,
Jeff, because I saw the state New Jersey
state police officer drop them off right
downstairs.
>> Just come right to safe harbor and drop
them off.
>> That's crazy. I mean, not just for us,
but total disregard for them. And
>> and it's one thing if a person says,
"I'm from East." Yeah. And now you're
doing them a favor by giving them a ride
home. But it's another thing to drop
somebody
>> hours away from where
>> New Jersey residines
» insurance. So,
>> well, and I think we should we need to
be clear. They're not dropping them off
because they want to get them help. They
just don't want to deal with it. And
they know we can help, but it's out of
their hair. So, and it's just terrible
for what they're doing to the people.
>> And I think lately it's been um a lot
less from PA local communities. I don't
know what you guys are seeing, but as
far as what Officer Carson and I are
seeing, it's been a lot less um it's
been slowing down, if you will, from
kind of the rest of Northampton County.
Um, Officer Crossson and I are working
with the Northampton County um, crisis
intervention team and we are attending
um, month it's monthly meetings with the
county um, and other police departments
and we're all kind of at the table
talking about these things. So, since we
started doing that, we're getting phone
calls from other departments saying,
"Hey, we have this issue. Normally, we
would just drop them off at Safe Harbor,
but how would you how can we help this
person?" I've gotten in the last month
I've gotten two calls just from one
department. So those conversations are
happening. So I think we're doing
everything we can to try and move that
in the right direction. But the biggest
struggle for us because it if somebody
comes here from Bethlehem and wants
help, I can get them help. That is not a
big deal. It is what it is, right? But
if somebody is here from Essex, New
Jersey, they can't get drug and alcohol
treatment in Pennsylvania. They can't
get mental health treatment. Well, they
can if it's emergent only if it's a
life or death situation and that's where we're we're really
struggling and we can't get them on the
road to creating better life for
themselves.
>> But even even Bethtown, I appreciate you
helping them, but when Beth Mantown
closed their camps, they know where
they're going. Well, send us a check,
pay for an extra position, help us help
the people, right? you're taking the
burden off of your municipalities,
putting it on us, and you're not you're
not making a phone call. You're not
offering any assistance. It's not fair
to the people or for or for anybody.
>> So, I have a question. Um
irrespective of the bad actors who are
dropping people off in East. Um, it
appears also that just the homeless are
gravitating towards Eastston. And my
understanding uh from being on the board
of Safe Harbor is that Safe Harbor has
finite resources. They do a fantastic
job, but they have a finite number of
beds. Uh, their warming uh center in the
winter is uh they can only allow a
finite number of people to stay there.
They do have free lunches. Um and so
that's um terrific for people who need
that resource. So my question is I'm I
understand there are ad hoc
activities going on in the community
unrelated to safe harbor that serve the
homeless. Are they attracting people
from outside of east? Is does Eastston
have the reputation of somewhere where
you can get clothing, bedding, sleeping
bags, tents, and so on?
>> Yeah,
>> without without a doubt. It's definitely
we've seen an uptick since that
situation began.
>> See, that's that's something the city
needs to consider. like I don't want to
interfere in any way with any community
organization that's trying to help, but
if they're actually turning into a
magnet for people from out of town to
come in, then that's that's an issue the
city should probably address.
>> Some specific groups try to push them
down towards safe so they can still do
their same thing they're doing but in an
environment that's controlled and
they're used to handling the amount of
people and they have bathrooms and they
have things like that. So,
Councilwoman,
>> also, you know, they require people who
are are going to be staying there to
abide by their rules. So, there's no
drug and alcohol and so on. So, um you
know, again,
how come people are just coming to
Easton when, you know, it's not an easy
road to to to be in Easton if if there's
not enough beds at Safe Harbor. you have
to you have to go through their
coursework and so on. [clears throat]
>> If we know who's doing the ad hoc
>> operations, we can send codes down there
because I remember very vividly how Safe
Harbor started because I started Safe
Harbor. It was uh who was the priest up
at Lafia College. Father,
>> oh my god, I can't remember his name.
>> No, none of us were here when you
started. I know you
>> I know that. But but you know,
we started it
at a time when we didn't know what
homeless was or unhoused. We we didn't
we had no idea what it was because we
never experienced it. But we started it
the night that we gave the the
million-dollar loan to the state
theaters. Everybody said, "Why are you
giving it to all the rich people? The
only rich people could go to state
theater." So, we did the safe harbor
same night and it got approved. But
I think what was his name? Well, anyway,
f whatever his father's name was. Um, he
was having a press conference at the
circle blasting me because I was helping
I was here. They shut down the code team
shut down all the ad hoc operations. We
were putting the homeless in church
halls and the parents were getting mad
because their kids were eating dinner or
lunch in that same room that the people
were sleeping in at night. So he was
having Father Hagen. Is that right?
Father Hagen sounds. Yes. Close to that.
And um and he was having a press
conference against me and blasting me
for shutting down all the the ad hoc
groups. So if we know who they are, we
could send our code team down because
I'm sure they're not up to code.
>> I I think they have already been
involved with this the one group that we
know to be problematic. Just for clarity
for for the public and watching for
councilwoman you're talking about just
some of the local people that are coming
together to do this not our churches and
things that
>> not the churches
>> right right okay just the individuals
>> right it like individuals who are on
Facebook and so on
>> they tend to be a problem for us
>> you know that's
we don't want
our city to be a magnet uh for the
homeless we want to be able to serve our
homeless population our indigent
homeless population.
Um, so I don't know, you know, that's
it's a bit of a difficult question
because I could see the public being up
in arms if we are like disassembling
those activities.
Um, I
>> I think people need to to realize
>> we have a lot of great people in the
community that want to donate tents and
everything else. The problem is when when we cleaned out the Elm Street
area, they they already left. We didn't
clean them out. We just cleaned
leftovers.
You guys still have the pictures. I
think I might have them.
>> Thousands of of things, brand new, price
tags on them, t never opened before. So,
these people need to understand they're
helping. We We appreciate them trying to
help, but they're buying all these
things and giving it to people that have
nowhere to put it and it's all just
being discarded.
>> I mean, the majority of the dumpsters
you guys filled were brand new clothing
and tents and shoes and crisp, so
they're not even really getting
utilized, right? So all these people are
collecting and g and they're not being
utilized. They're being thrown away.
Not, you know, the people are doing what
their heart tells them to do, which we
appreciate. And the people that are
taking them want them, but they have
nowhere to put them. You know, when they
go to the group, Safe Harbor, Shiloh, UC
Project, they're documenting these
people. They get licensed, you know, ID
where they're from. So, I mean, that's
where I try to direct people to help
them, volunteer with them, give them
stuff,
>> you know, but so, you know, I think once
people realize that a lot of their
donations are being discarded, it might
help them to start going to Safe Harbor
and Project East and Third Street
Alliance more. I think we just have to
communicate that.
>> I mean, that's what we try to say
whenever someone reaches out to us with
donations.
I even had what two boxes of donations
in my office um that I just brought to
Third Street Alliance like last week
that
I don't I think some of the officers
brought stuff in, but I mean we're
trying to make sure that people know
that their donations are appreciated and
there are certainly people that need
them, but we want to make sure they're
funneled to the people that need them
and can use them right in the moment.
I think if I can just state something, I
mean, I certainly don't want to um I
think there's a lot of hearts in the
right places, right? But what Jeff and I
have found and and our our peers at at
Third Street and Project and all of the
wonderful organizations that are
established here in Easton is that
services need to be offered alongside
support. There has to be some level of
like that client having the personal
accountability to at least like
want to
further their circumstances and a lot of
the times that requires some help. That
requires us building rapport and you
know
>> Yeah. Uh but but services need to be
offered alongside support. Um not just
kind of like a blank check that doesn't
do anyone any good. And I think the
thing that's really difficult when we
get into helping fields is there's a
very thin line between uh helping and
enabling. And that is the line that Jeff
and I I mean we struggle with that every
day. Um and it's something that takes
like a lot of time to develop. But
that's I think where we can focus as as
a community is just making sure that the
services that we're offering are are
really helping people move forward and
not just kind of enabling folks to be
comfortable in circumstances that really
aren't serving them either.
>> I mean I don't have any solutions to how
to I mean other than shutting down ad
hoc organizations you know or people
does anybody
I mean it's it's a tough one. How how
much does it distract from like what you
do or how many how many people let's say
do you think are coming to Eastston for
because of the ad hoc um services?
>> I can't speak to that. I don't think
it's it's overly and I mean we we kind
of focus on our own operations.
>> What we're seeing is the
we're getting a lot of people during the
day in the city that
>> are from New Jersey and somewhere in New
Jersey wheal
or the drug and alcohol or you know
whatever family problems or underlying
issues there are
>> can't stop that.
>> That that's that's very true. One of the
things I was just thinking about for
lack of a better word in their community
they work on word by mouth and I can
almost guarantee you that that word by
mouth is reaching Jersey
>> and reaching back and that's a hard
avenue to try to combat because we're
not involved with that communication.
>> Yeah. It seems like the only way you
could really, you know, let's say
control or regulate or shut down, you
know, um these organizations that
potentially are enabling homelessness
um is if we had uh
like an unlimited amount of beds that we
could offer, right? But with in the
absence of that,
there's not really a lot that we could
do.
I think that's enough to satisfy
one other point. the two of them.
We did get two
longer tenur people that have been here
for years
and one's been here since I started at
>> well over 10 years ago
team of
and he's instrumental. Whenever we got a
problem down, he is down there.
But I really wanted to make sure that we
were able to highlight um as Jeff said,
people that have been here for a long
time and um maybe resisted support,
maybe resisted um our help initially, we
took the time. Um the one individual
that he mentioned that was here for six
years, I can tell you that he probably
had daily contact with
both of them. And
every shift that Jeff works, I'm sure
he's had contact with that individual.
And at every step, every contact, it was
building that relationship, building
that trust, helping that person. Um that
individual was a veteran and he is now
connected to services. I actually spoke
with the facility today and he is
acclimating well. He um has a long road
ahead of him, but he is finally um
sleeping under cover of a roof and and
not a tent. Um and we actually were
talking about the veteran population. I
didn't share this with you guys yet, but
um just looking back this year, we've
been three for three with identified
veterans that will accept our help and
getting them support. and we've been
able to do it really quickly. So,
when people are ready to accept help, we can get it for them. Um, we have a a
really strong network and the same with
treatment providers. We have a strong
network um within the drug and alcohol
um treatment world and we're able to get
people the help when they're ready for
it. Um it's just kind of being patient
and being there for them until they're
ready. Um, so when we're trying to help
people, you know, get ready for that,
it's incredibly helpful to not have
>> them being enabled
to continue the path that they're on.
>> Well, we think you're doing a great job,
all four of you, and the new guy.
>> Um, I'm a name Web.
>> Web, Officer Web, calling him a while a
while,
>> but but he
>> he's not one of the new guys I swear in.
He's been here for a while.
>> 15 years.
Yeah,
>> we're trying we're trying to get him him out a bit
more, but um we have a lot of people
that we have been able to help. Um I
mentioned 42 earlier. There are people
that are not included in those numbers.
are just individuals that
officer Crossen and I have had contact
with and have specifically referred to a
program. They don't account for every
individual that Safe Harbor has helped,
including the two that they sent back
this week. We didn't have any contact
with them. Safe Harbor took care of them
before it became an issue where police
were notified.
So, I think it's definitely a team
effort. I think we're doing everything
we can um to move move the needle and help people. Um and I have to be
honest. I mean, it's we're we're having
a lot of success. Um so,
>> well, we hear good things. I hear good
things. And that's unusual
>> because when I was here in the 80s, I
didn't hear good things about our police
department, but I'm hearing good things
about all of our police officers, not
just officer cross.
>> Could you before you end, can you give
us a quick update safe harbor on the
transitional housing on Ferry Street,
the new church that we last year last
year?
>> Sure. Um, so we had uh our first round
move into that project in August of last
year. So we're coming up on our our
first year. Um we have two individuals
who are going to be moving on two that
are uh two units that are staying for an
additional year and we're bringing two
new individuals in. In that first round
we had five of our shelter residents
because we had a couple of uh roommate
pairs. Um as well as a single mother and
child from our day program. Um and then
this round we have two individuals that
are moving in. One also uh will have
visitation with their child in the
apartment that they could not prior
which is really really awesome. Um, so
yeah, everything's going very well. Uh,
we're very grateful for the support of
Mark um, Hammerstone. He's been
fantastic. Um, so we have a good working
relationship with him and of course Mike
and Kelly who kind of had us up to that
point when Mark stepped in. Um, but
yeah, no, we're very grateful.
» It's just a resource we didn't have.
>> Y,
>> great work.
» Thank you.
Hey, Crossson, by the way, you're really
moving on that bike. Um, have you
thought about joining the race that we
have here? [laughter]
>> I have thought about it. I know.
>> Yeah, Julie, if you and Crystal can get
him connected.
>> Is that the electric bike? [laughter]
>> Yeah, but he's
>> That's the electric bike.
>> I don't bl [laughter]
>> see you later. Okay, we have nine items
on the committee discussions and we're
going to try to get through them all
rather quickly. Uh let's start with
vendor fees since Dwayne and Darren are
here.
>> No, we're not here for that.
>> Oh, you're here for parking permits.
>> Let me let me jump Let me jump in. I I
unless councilwoman Rose has an update.
Um we're not I don't I don't think we're
prepared. We're still we're still
drafting
>> vendor fees
>> vendor fee policy. Yeah,
>> that's correct. Um
Councilwoman Zando Dennis and I just met
with um John and Mark and um our
solicitor and I think we're we're going
in the right direction, but expect to
see a new draft soon.
>> Okay. The only thing I would recommend
is that we do it as quickly as possible
because we do have some big events
coming up between Clam Jam, Garlic Fest,
and Bacon Fest. There are three biggest.
>> It may not It may not occur. It takes
two months to get an ordinance through.
>> I realize that, but it's budgetary, so
it doesn't take it becomes effective
immediately.
>> You're right. [laughter]
>> Okay. Board of Health denials.
>> Thank you, Mayor.
Uh Jared or or Vargo, I don't know who
wants to.
>> All right. There we go.
>> So, um and this is
>> Jared's here for moral support. Man,
you're hurting. [laughter]
>> So, I think The issue is that the
ordinance as currently written
specifically prevents the board from
issuing any kind of written decision. So
there's no real way to know and Jared
can correct me if I'm wrong here why
each specific member voted against a
particular permit. But I think the board
could do a better job of publicizing the
actual some of the criteria that the
board members are looking at. And some
of the things that have to be considered
are the availability, how often the
person requesting the permit actually
has to leave the house. Uh what is the
availability of parking generally on the
street? In other words, is it a street
there's generally open parking? Well,
then maybe a designated spot isn't
necessary. If the person is not
themselves required to leave
particularly often because they have
other support in the home. In other
words, if someone else can and the
that's the other thing is what resources
do they have in the home to help? If
there's someone else who can drive and
can drop them off at the front door and
then go park, it's less necessary. Uh
physical aspects like the number of
steps, both the distance from the curb
to the street as well as the literal
number of steps.
>> Um there are some parts of Easton that
are hillier than others. There are some
houses that sit up higher than others.
Uh from my understanding, those are are
just some of the types of factors that
go into each decision. But because each
decision is so individualized and
because each commissioner could have a
different reason for deciding, there's
no real one way to to say why an
application may succeed or fail. But I
think a better an understanding of those
sorts of factors of what the factors
that the board's actually looking at
does could help people understand in
general why a permit might be dismissed
even if it's not their specific permit.
So Jared, for for you currently, do we list the reasons why an
application could be denied or approved?
What he just mentioned, do we do we
mention that prior to or at the
conclusion of a hearing?
>> So I the email I originally shot you
over with the description and the kind
of uh legality of the beginning of the
meeting does list pure discretionary
um categories, we'll call them. um that
the lawyer just went over. Um
for each individual, we don't go like
once the denial or approval happens, we
don't go through that with them during
the board meeting.
>> But we do let people know ahead of time.
>> Yeah.
>> And I know your email, but the public
didn't see the email. So, but ahead of
time, we let them know of reasons what
you look at.
>> Yeah. We we tell them what we look at.
We even let them know board members do
survey the neighborhood, right? Um, and
then my description, like a perfect
example of what he was saying was steps.
Um, if they live in a second floor
apartment, I list that in addition,
right, to the board members so they have
that information like, hey, there's 15
steps from the first floor to the second
floor apartment where they reside. Um,
so there are things that are taken into
account. Um, we we list them at the
meeting. I state them at the meeting.
Um, but they're not like designated
anywhere like on the application.
[snorts]
>> Is it possible to to
put a disclaimer or something on the
application? These are some of the
parameters. I think the biggest thing is
just lack of communication on any level
and people just don't know and and and I
think if we could at least make people
aware that this is the criteria,
each person could have a different
reason for denying you and and you know,
people just don't know, right? And and I
think if we could just at least give
that so people have some type of idea
what's going on or what the criteria was
that they were based it the decision was
based on I think that would just help
out a lot in regards to communication.
Could we put that on just on the initial
applications letters on the bottom?
>> We can probably look at that application
form and see. I mean it'd have to make
it clear that it's not an exhaustive
list. It's simply a representative
example of some reasons why a permit may
be granted or denied, but ultimately
it's at the discretion of the board
members. But there may be some language
we could add to the I'll I'll work
>> or or at least that it's not a uniform
decision, right? So it could be
individual and we don't share the
individual. So it could be more than one
reason.
>> Yeah. There's no way to know
>> a different reason for every board
member. Just, you know, just give them
something. I mean they like we don't
tell them really anything. It's kind of
>> it's hard. I understand it's a difficult
situation, but it's given this. But I
can I'm gonna I'll talk to J and uh
assistant solicister
because I know he handles those
hearings. So maybe we can take a look at
that form and see if there's some
improvements can be made there. All
right. So I'll uh how about four weeks?
Not the next committee. We'll wait two
more commit second committee from now
and we'll bring that back. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Mayor.
>> Okay, we'll move on to Minister Pony. We
may as well continue with the microphone
work for his housing.
>> Did you call me mister or minister? It
sound like
>> mister. Minister.
>> Mister.
>> I prefer minister.
>> No, that's Roger Rogos. [laughter]
>> So, I spoke to some of the council
members. Um, it's not a whole hell of a
lot of discussion. We've always, since I
brought this over a year ago, we've
always said if if a developer gets any
subsidy, any subsidy. Well, it was
brought to my attention two weeks ago by
our current solicitor that it doesn't
read any. It reads city, state. So, all
they're doing, if you guys saw the
update, they're adding any subsidy. So,
state, county,
uh, uh, Unity Bank gives a grant.
That'll be, you know, that'll that'll trigger it. So, we're just
spelling it out that any subsidy
developer gets would trigger this bill
and they would have to allocate units
and things. So, we're just adding
additional language to it just to make
sure there's no loopholes or anything.
So,
>> that makes sense.
>> Well, I mean, actually, we're taking
away, but yes,
>> we're adding by taking away just to make
it clear that it's not limited that tax
incentives are not limited to city or
state tax incentives. I think it came up
in the context apparently there is
>> there are historic tax credits, but
there are both separate federal and
state historic tax credits and federal
tax credits would not
>> county and county
>> Yeah. or county tax credits would not
have fallen. So, by removing the word
city or state from the from the statute,
it should rectify that problem. So, I
don't know if it's on I don't think
>> it's on tomorrow.
>> I didn't know if it was on tomorrow's
agenda, but yeah, then we're good.
>> Okay. What about hotels?
>> Dwayne,
» hotel mot.
» All right. where we left off uh at the
last committee meeting um was
councilwoman uh Julie Sando Dennis uh
wanted the definition for what uh a
regulated rental unit was. I shared that
today. I don't know if everybody was
able to read it or had a chance to. I
emailed it to everyone. Um so what we're
doing is we're so the hotel itself is
being caught under that verbiage as
well. it was just at some point put in
the exempt ones that aren't considered
rental units. So, we're taking that out
and then um so that'll now fall under
the rental program
with the bed and breakfast that was
brought up. Um so, it is an owner
occupied and there is only one in the
city. I mean, we could amend it to take
that out to make it a registered rental.
To me, I I don't think it would hurt to
leave it exempt because it's owner
occupied. The owner does live there when
tenants come in or well when transient
guests come in. Um but I mean I'll leave
that up to your discretion or
>> Well, well, you got to make sure I would
be in favor of that if if we're for sure
that is a owner occupied. The problem is
they they'll rent out both places and
they'll go find a place sell the place
because Belum is having that problem
right now.
>> Yeah. So, we only have one that's
>> the one on Wood Avenue.
>> No, there's no there's no better.
>> No, no, no. There's there's only one.
It's at 131 Catel Street.
>> Are we sure? Mayor might know of two
more.
>> Then I went on a website.
>> Then they're not legal. Are they Are you
talking about Airbnbs?
>> Yeah.
>> No, we're not.
>> So, short-term rentals are something
completely different than a bed and
breakfastdeed
>> as far as zoning is required. So, so
short-term rentals are under the rental
program,
>> but the one on center square above
Bigers came to
>> they got denied
>> zoning. They got Oh, they got denied.
That's right.
>> So, here here's my concern. How many
beds does does the bed and breakfast
have that we're talking about?
>> How many rooms?
>> Just three bedrooms.
>> Just three.
>> Yeah.
>> And there were there was conditions of
approval for that
>> through zoning when they got their
approval. I I I just think if we start
pulling out who does and who doesn't, it
can get tricky later and people can find
ways to circumvent. Personally, since
we're talking about the the the
safety of the visitors as well as our
first responders, I'd like to see them
all included in the the same inspections
when it comes to fire. That's my
opinion.
>> I would too. I agree with that.
>> All right. So,
as far as uh the 45618
uh A2, we will get rid of well, we'll
remove section C as well for the bed and
breakfast and then they'll fall under
the rental program.
>> Okay.
>> So, the hotel the hotel will be out and
the bed and breakfast will be out and
fall under the rental uh program.
>> Dwayne, can you provide an update to to
Karen because we're going to update it
for tomorrow's night's meeting.
>> Absolutely.
>> Introduce it.
>> Great introduction.
>> Yep. Wayne, can I uh ask you just to go
back a little bit to um it's uh 2 A.
So it's A2A 45618
A2A
or B rather A2B. So essentially you were you're going to uh take away
from the carve out hotels and motel,
right?
Um
the thing is
up here
so a hotel in a motel is uh is part is a regulated rental unit based on our
um
definitions.
So here you say for a rooming house,
this is in 45618A1.
For a rooming house, a single license is
allowed for all units within a rooming
house building. Shouldn't that also be
for a hotel and motel? I mean, you're
not asking a hotel or motel to get a
license for each individual room.
>> Wait, what section you in again? Just so
I'm following 561 18 A2B
>> A2B.
So, hotels, motel used for transit
visitors, but without units.
>> It's 45 5618 A1.
>> Yep.
>> All right.
>> So, it starts with a residential rental
license shall be required for all
regulated rental units.
>> Yep.
>> A regulated rental unit includes a hotel
and a motel.
>> That's correct.
>> Okay. Then you say in the same
paragraph, for a rooming house, a single
license is allowed for all units within
a rooming house building. In other
words, you only need one license.
Wouldn't that also be true for hotels
and motel where you only need one
license?
>> Well, you're I guess you're kind of
splitting hairs because a hotel is is a
different use than a rooming house.
>> No, it's just the license requirement.
In other words, does a hotel owner have
to go and get a license for every single
different unit in the hotel? It the way
it reads now, they do.
>> I I would say the way it reads, yes,
because there's it's two different uses.
A rooming house is different than what a
hotel is as far as the use.
>> Oh, I see. I see you're saying the unit
or shall be organ for a room.
Well, why even have that that uh
sentence
like
no
I think you're missing the point. It's
not two separate uses. So a residential
rental license shall be required for all
regulated rental units. That includes
SRO's, hotels, motel. Okay.
>> And then
for all regulated rental units. So that
includes a motel. And here you're saying
for a rooming house only a single
license is allowed for all units within
a rooming house building. So for a
motel, isn't it just a single house is a
single license is allowed?
>> Well, it's more or less a commercial
building, right? So what what I'm saying
is and and maybe we're splitting hairs
on what it is. I'm looking at it as the
use of the building itself. The use of a
building for a hotel is completely
different than the use of a rooming
house, right? You're having single rooms
that are, you know, not as large as
hotel rooms because, you know, hotel
rooms are a lot larger. Roaming houses
don't have a shower within their unit.
It's usually a communal shower within
the house. Mhm.
>> Um,
>> but doesn't a motel does a motel then
need to get more than a single license
for all its units?
» I would say yes.
>> So if a motel has a 100 units and it it
has to get a 100 licenses.
>> Yes. It's just like the marquee has 100
units. It would have to get 100 rental
licenses.
>> Okay. For
>> each unit.
>> That's how Oh, I didn't know that's how
you
>> Okay.
Got it. Hey, then it makes perfect sense
then.
>> Thank you.
>> If there's no other questions or
comments, it'll be on the agenda
tomorrow for introduction and Dwayne
will update and get the camera
>> pulling that out.
>> Okay. Law lease agreement renewal.
>> We wanted to get information to set the
um
>> I have a slight I have a slight there's
no
>> county didn't give us anything.
>> Mayor, we did receive some
correspondence uh today. It was late
today, but um I have to verify we we got
some expenses, but looking at that uh
report um I have more questions than I
do anything else. Um so I we we got this
late today and I can't comment on like
what kind of information we got there.
>> So um
>> table it for two weeks.
>> Table it. Well, we do have to
>> notify them
>> that the tenant should be notified
by August 1st. So, there should be a
decision tomorrow made as to whether to
I mean, the option would be to renew the
lease at the current rent and then wait
a year and see where we're at and have
one once we have just the idea of
raising the rent during the lease is
tricky. Probably okay, but I don't like
probably. The problem though is if if
everybody here discussed what the cost
is to maintain and everything, we don't
have that information. How can we
>> We do not have that information. So,
it's a question of do we do we choose to
change the rent without that information
tomorrow or do you choose to leave the
rent the same without that information?
>> I I I can try to provide a an update
tomorrow. So, like I said, I did not get
a chance to um it came in late in the
day and I I really have to sit down and
re and review it with um not only John
Kingsley, but call um the attorney um
and just question some of the reports.
It's just not that clear.
>> I mean, there there's there's thousand
>> I think we should raise it. Mrs. Sos is
not going to be happy regardless. So, I
think we should just let her know that
her rent's being increased. I mean, I
don't care if it's to $250,
$14 a month.
>> So, let me ask let me ask
>> Have you re Sorry. Have you reached out
to Miss Host to get her income or has
anybody Sorry.
>> Verify it.
>> No, I'm not aware of of if anyone has
done that or not. I would I I would ask
I will ask John Kingsley um since he was
the one who was the uh point person on
this project. Um but so tomorrow we can
regroup and try to get um just some
clarity. There is a report that's
showing and again I I got to look at I
got to look at the in more detail that's
showing like showing at least a few
thousand dollars in expenses. Now my
question going back to you anyway is
regarding the market value. It doesn't
sound like you want to go up to market
value but you do want to increase the uh
rental rate because there's expenses. Okay. So, it's
not based on
>> it' be at least 15% of her income.
>> Gotcha.
>> I agree.
>> Yeah. I
>> I think if we set it a percentage of her
income and you know it would account for
it every single year.
>> Yeah. I'm not aware that we were able to
get any any information.
>> I I will get you her income by the
morning.
>> That's fine. Like we're meeting we have
a solicitor's meeting at 9:00 a.m. So
>> I'll get it for you tonight if we get
out of here in time or tomorrow.
>> They'll get it to me by nine o'clock and
that's fine.
I'm not [laughter]
>> Oh, no way.
>> Every day.
>> Can we talk about what percentage of our
income we would increase it to?
>> Sure.
>> I mean, because Mayor, you mentioned
15%. I mean, that's awfully It's hard to tell a constituent. Yeah, we're
giving this incredible deal to this one
individual.
>> But my my concern,
>> why can't it be 30? Like,
>> so the 30 we're doing on my bill, which
is the workforce housing, right? So, the
middle class
I can't guarantee until I get the
number, but I'm almost positive she's
significantly lower than that on
probably just whatever social security
gives her.
>> She would fall in 30%. Yeah, she would
fall in 30%.
>> Based based on a very rough like uh
internet analysis,
like a widow living alone who's let's
say never worked, and I I don't know
whether she's worked or not, who had a
laborer for a husband.
um they would make
between $1,800 to $2,400 a month
>> income.
>> So if we took 25% of 1800s, that would
make $450
in rent, which would be a 99.1%
increase, almost 100% increase or
doubling it. I
>> I think the question though is what what
exactly is that increase going to do for
us without knowing the numbers of what's
happening there? And I I don't think and
I don't think unless you go market rate,
you're going to make a significant
difference for us with any increase.
>> And and I know to your point,
Councilwoman, about getting such a sweet
deal.
>> It's a perception issue,
>> but the woman's been there for 50 years.
I mean, to to we get to to to raise her
rent 100%. That's not going to help us
with anything.
>> But those those units weren't meant to
have people there 50 years. They were
meant to be there and to move on. I
don't disagree, but that's a a systemic
problem for over 50 years by the city,
not from her.
>> I think a percentage of income is fair,
but you know, meanwhile, in a few
months, it not soon we're going to be
sitting down with the budget looking for
two pennies to to to put together and
meanwhile we're incurring costs on a
unit.
>> We have to look at that.
>> Yeah. But but and that's why I mentioned
prior of adjusting the lease to say, you
know, uh uh you want a sidewalk replaced
just because you don't like it. Well,
that's your responsibility. We're not
paying for that. And we haven't explored
looking at what we're putting out. So, I
think we need to adjust the lease to say
we can't just come and repair things
just cuz you don't like it.
>> Sure. I mean, there's a lot of things in
my own home I'd like to repair as well.
But, you know, there if it's not a code
violation or a safety violation, it
doesn't always get done. You do it when
you can afford to do it.
>> So, I think we should update the Lisa at
least to say that so we're not
hemorrhaging the money as we look like
we've been doing. Um, but I'll get her
salary. I I'll talk to her today and try
to get documentation and then give it to
you guys.
>> Good. Come with me.
>> Suggestion is to um not increase the
rent but have her pay for maintenance.
>> I'm saying I think we talked about it
before. We should we should consider it
if it's something that is our
responsibility.
>> Tenant pay for maintenance is that they
don't do it.
>> But what I'm saying
>> we get back as a building that is
>> deplorable that requires $40,000 worth
of improvements. What I'm saying is
looking at it like other landlords,
right? If if the roof is leaking because
the shingles are old, that's our
responsibility, right? If she clogs the
sink with hair or something else, that's
her responsibility. If she wants the
sidewalk done because she doesn't like
the way it looks anymore, that's your
responsibility, right? Like I think we
need to look at things like that and a
small percentage based on her her
income. My my concern is I just don't
want to exceed
>> her increase from social security and
then we put her out in the street. I
mean that's why we need that's an
important point to be able I think you
know other affordable housing has its
percentages as well that they look at
income
>> it's all built in though
>> it it you know if you're if you find out
that there's more coming in there could
be p there could be things we don't know
about it's not fair to other the other
taxpayers to burden that call
>> and updates. I think we really got to
like take a good look at that lease and
see what that lease is saying because if
she's under housing authority, is that
who's holding the
>> No, she's not. She's under the city of
East.
>> Okay. So, we still need to look at that
lease so that we can make sure that
going forward that we're
not displacing her. I'm concerned about
displacing.
>> Right. But here's the problem with that,
Councilman. We mentioned that two weeks
ago
>> and now tomorrow's our last voting
meeting and it needs to be done for
August 1. So, what do we do? We didn't
do what we were.
>> That's what I'm saying. Um, council,
>> no. Lei County didn't get back to John.
tried to get the information. Lei
County didn't get back to him.
>> They're the only one who hold it.
>> At minimum, it seems like she's getting
$1,800.
>> They got back they got back to us late today. Both myself and Mike were on
the email, but I mean, this is late. And
>> well, I'll email what I get tonight to
all the council and to the
administration, and then we can
tomorrow. We'll just have to
>> discuss it.
and do something tomorrow. I
mean, it's our last day to vote on it
before the renewal.
>> I think we should vote on it tomorrow
night. And
>> no matter what you raise it to, I I'm
sure she will be at the next meeting.
>> Well, I mean, that's fine. But
>> that's fine.
>> As long as we're doing it fair. I mean,
we got, you know, as long as we're doing
it fair. Nobody's going to I've learned
over the last three years, no matter
what you do, you're going to piss
everybody off. So,
>> what it is
>> as an individual, you can't imagine that
your rate of
goes up.
>> That never goes up. I mean it just
>> don't happen. It does. So
>> you get probably get cooler.
>> Mike, remind us on the lease what's in
there for increases on the lease.
>> So there's no limit on the increase.
>> No limit, but
>> you can increase the the but
>> So it doesn't say income or anything.
It's whatever we feel like doing.
>> The rent can be whatever number the city
wants it to be. But anything else
requires consent of the property owner.
There is some room in for interpretation
in what exact level of maintenance is
required,
>> right?
>> I think it's necessary maintenance. So,
I think there is
there's a certain definition of what's
necessary versus what somebody might
like to have.
>> Could you put that together for
tomorrow?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Of of your recommendation because of
>> Yeah. of the repairs.
» Well, we know what's going to happen to
that property once living in it.
>> And I mean, we're looking at we're
looking at third. we're going to sell it
and we're looking at we talk about
30,000 right because that's what like
the workforce housing is like 30 up to
70 or whatever but if she's making 18 a
month she 30% if she's looking at 18 a
month she's making like 21 cents a year
so that wouldn't put her in workforce
that would put her at low income what
the percentage is for low income
>> I think it makes the most sense to
charge her a percentage of her income
lock it in every year she'll get an
increase in you know her social security
or whatever
>> but the question is what's the
percentage
>> well then we got to figure that Right.
That's what we have to do. And then
>> low income
>> then it'll go up automatically every
year
>> because 216 is considered low income.
>> Just generally
>> 25%.
>> Yeah. That's general thumb, but I don't
know if that's the federal rule.
>> Yeah. I I don't know.
>> It's always 30%. And it really doesn't
really increase the state level. They
>> 30%.
>> Yeah.
>> For low income people.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, for the federal
Kenny worked with it for 20 years, so he
knows.
>> Does she pay for her own utilities?
Does
>> I believe so, but
>> yeah, I don't see that in the lease, so
I'm assuming she must be.
>> Yeah. So, just I mean, be aware though
that and I and I think it's fine, but
let's just say she makes $1,800
and if we were to get 25%, we'd
effectively be doubling her rent, which
I think is fair. That's only um $450 a
month.
>> She just can't go to bangle no more. God
bless her.
» So, just a quick thing, market rate
departments. Many landlords raise rent 3
to 5% per year to keep up with
inflation, operating costs, whatever. In
a tight housing market, 5 to 10%
increase. Affordable uh HUD public
housing or housing vouchers. Rent is
generally based on the tenants income.
Most tenants pay about 30% of their
adjusted monthly income towards rent
in utilities and things included. So,
we'll take her yearly or her monthly
salary and and look at 30% of that.
>> Yeah.
>> And see what that comes with. The
reality is never $140, which is more
than twice what she's paying now.
>> At that point, might want to look at a
step up per year. That's a big
>> That's a big increase at one time. Yeah,
absolutely.
>> Well, it's double if we just go to 25%.
If her income's 1,800,
>> I would suggest that we make a lease, a
new lease, Mike, a new lease that says
that what it's going to go up to and
maybe maybe she will move out, move in
with her sister.
>> She's watching, man.
>> No, there is no [laughter]
>> any rent increase doesn't go in effect
for two months anyway. So, there'd be a
two month there'd be a two-month lag
before there's a rent increase any
before the rent increase becomes
effective. So, I'll get council her
yearly income or monthly income.
>> You going to knock on her door?
>> I am.
I'm going to tell her Sal Panto
sent me. And then and I'm going to give
her my card with his cell phone number.
>> Go for it.
>> And in the meantime,
>> I'll bring you.
>> In the meantime, you'll look at um
repairs and maintenance and then we'll
just have to
>> just a quick question from the
solicitor. Um, is is there an anti- um
sub lease provision in the contract?
>> I believe there is. I don't have the
lease in front of me at this moment.
>> Yeah, because I mean we don't want her
moving out
>> and subleasasing it and I'm charging
$2,000.
>> I'm almost certain there's not there's
no,
>> but I will double check to make sure.
>> All right.
We
>> Yeah.
>> Thank you.
>> Okay. Uh, the next two deal with DCD and
the chairman of the DCD committee does
not know what they're about, so Hold off
whether Mr. Kingsy can explain them to
us or I'll get information on them
tomorrow.
>> Mayor, I think just for sake, I think
some of our directors still don't
understand the whole concept of
committee meeting and council meeting.
So, they're bringing like everything.
They're applying for a grant, right?
They're just applying for grants, but I
think just they're crossing all their
tees and dotting on their eyes. So, they
wanted to let us know what they're
applying for. So, I'll get that
information out to everyone tonight.
>> But that's really what it is. It's I
don't see us voting no on on applying
for a grant. So,
>> right.
>> Um
>> the last item is resolution appointing
and reappointing people to authorities
board. You
>> skip one.
>> Wait, six, seven, eight.
>> Oh, open go software implementation.
>> Eight. Six and seven are seven and
eight.
>> So, mayor's going to do eight.
>> Oh, we
>> six and seven are the grants for DCD
that
>> Oh, can I just can I please raise an
issue about seven? the resolution
authorizing East DCD to apply for a
hotel tax grant. That grant is to go
towards um oh I had it up shoot the
infamous bugler
and I don't think we want to say the
infamous bugler in our ordinance. So
infamous means uh somebody well known
for some bad quality or deed such as an
infamous war criminal
>> and people on uh AI ask is infamous
positive or negative and it is strictly
negative. It means well known for a bad
reason such as a scandalous act, crime
or poor poor reputation according to
Mariam Webster.
>> And we don't know what the bugler did.
Well, who
wrote it?
>> Who woke him up?
>> Because it's an or it's a resolution. I
think we should change the term
infamous.
>> Something 1861.
[laughter]
>> Yeah.
>> Something.
>> He woke everybody up and
>> scandalous.
>> Yes. Less scandic
>> and more.
>> Yeah. Iconic's fine. That's good.
>> The iconic view or it's iconic.
>> So, we're good with the plan for the
brand, but we just want to change that
in the wording. change that in the
wording if unless you want to keep it.
[laughter]
>> I don't want to keep it. You're right. I
agree. I know.
>> All right, mayor. Number eight is yours.
>> Well, we're going to number eight is
resolution for open gov software
implementation.
>> He's going to be giving a pretty
>> good grant for that. Correct.
>> Right. So, um council already approved
um the acquisition for the um new
software. There's a cost to the
software. Uh we are, as the mayor said,
we applied for a grant. Um we confident
in getting that grant. It's an annual
grant. Um the uh this the implementation
cost I think it was about 400,000.
Um the uh a letters went out to various
banks. There was an RFP unvest
came back their rate was at 4%. It was
about at least one point if not greater
than everyone else.
>> Mark said he'd be giving that if anybody
has any questions he'd be willing to
answer them tomorrow.
the implementation cost is super high
like is there
>> a reason for that
>> because we're already working with the
software already
my understanding for Mark so we're just
kind of
>> yeah no
>> stuck with that
>> there's well I mean it's a it's an
enterprise level software and it
includes not only the finance piece but
it also includes the tax pieces as well
>> but it's not a um
In the scope in the scope of work, there
were an estimated amount of hours that
were put in there.
>> So, it's based on hours.
>> Yeah.
» Okay. And appointments to and
reappoints. There are three appointments
up for um one is Linda Thomas, my wife
Pam, and Michelle Volcano Hall. They're
the three for zoning. And Bob McDonald,
who is back here in a black shirt, is
being appointed to the um planning
commission. Oh, good.
>> Congratulations.
>> All right. Mayor,
>> I have a question, mayor, on on the
zoning hearing board terms. Um, they all
expire on different years. I'm just
curious why that is.
>> The alternative, I think.
>> Yeah. They all
>> 2930.
>> It says that you
>> stagger all your votes
>> so you don't put all new board members
on at the same time.
>> Gotcha.
Mayor, I have a question um about the
zoning hearing board reappoint of one
member who um whose absentee record
seems to be pretty significant.
>> It is.
>> And so I I would like you to know that,
you know, I'd like to see a more active
um
>> commissioner on that board.
Mayor to that point when we passed the
attendance policy towards the end of
last year before the new council came on
>> we were applying that to the ABCs as
well right corre
so are we over
>> three per year
>> so are we generous I think
>> are we overseeing that to to so we know
who's in violation of the or okay
>> so do we have those numbers the
>> I don't I'd like to see that
>> so just for the new council
>> I don't think the zoning board has a
secretary
I think that's the problem. Planning
Commission has a secretary who goes to
every meeting. Uh I'll have to ask
Dwayne. Dwayne's at every zoning board
meeting
>> or we could ask a solicitor just to take
attendance. So for the new council
members, we passed a uh attendance
ordinance. Um a special person helped us
come up with that, gave us the reason.
So and and we put it so so uh every
after three attendances you could be,
you know, removed from the ABCs, not
from council obviously. And at the end
of the year, council announces Karen
announces what council members how many
meetings they miss throughout the year
and kind of like uh uh embarrassment
almost if you miss a whole lot of
meetings, unexcused meetings. So, if we
can start getting to make sure that the
ABCs are taking attendance, that way
it's it's easier to honor the ordinance.
>> Okay.
>> Well, I mean, can we are we voting on
these as a whole or can we make
individually. Individually, you can
vote.
>> No, you can vote in
>> saying if there was if they had three
absences, then they're gone.
>> Yes,
>> we have the right to say you're you're
gone. You're getting
>> The problem is zoning board is really
critical because it's a quasi judicial
board and if there's only four there,
which most of the time there are, it
becomes a two two tie, they get they're
guaranteed approval.
denial rather
>> at times at at times we haven't even had
a quorum
>> I know
>> which is a big problem
>> so the reappoints will be
>> well the only time you didn't have a
corum was when my wife and I were away
>> whatever
>> I mean that was a planned absence there
were so many other people missing that
Mikeella had to run the meeting
I remember
>> with agreement from all parties involved
>> yeah well if anybody has any suggestions
for who they want to put on the boards
I'm having a hard time because people
don't want them to serve on the boards
anymore.
Used to be an honor to serve on the
board. Now
>> they don't want to.
They don't give the time.
>> Well, thank you, Rob.
>> We'll see you tomorrow.
>> Thank you.
>> Mayor. Um, do you want to have an an
executive session?
>> Tomorrow. I'm just going to announce it.
Tomorrow's executive session will start
at 5:40.
>> No, we we should start at 5:30.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. 5:30.
>> Perfect.
Mayor, I make a motion to adjurnn.
>> Second,
>> third.
>> Moved and seconded. All in favor?
>> I
have enough.
responsive,
» right? Which means it's not
» afraid. I'm afraid to go there because I
might You know what?
» It doesn't have to be
» correct.
Yeah. Yeah.
and see if we need to do a regular
Thank you. Good to see you. Sure,
» Julie.