[5:55] The mayor just started.
[6:01] All right, we're going to start this
[6:02] council committee meeting. Um,
[6:05] first up is Julie.
[6:14] » Oh, I actually have copies of the
[6:15] presentation.
[6:20] Hey Julie,
[6:21] >> just want to take one.
[6:22] >> Julie, while you were starting that
[6:25] about the hydrants, I just got an email
[6:27] just now. The fire hydrant at Ferry and
[6:30] Sick Graves has the front off of it. Is
[6:32] that because of what we're doing?
[6:34] >> No.
[6:34] Okay. Okay.
[6:39] » Did you know that?
[6:40] >> No, but I knew now
[6:43] doesn't matter. It's not turned on that
[6:46] the the valve the the valve covers come
[6:49] off. You got to turn the bolt at the
[6:51] top.
[6:52] >> I didn't know it was coming off.
[6:56] >> No.
[6:56] >> Okay.
[6:59] >> Yeah. So, hello. Um I'm Julie. This is
[7:02] Tony. He's the chair of our uh design
[7:04] committee for East and Main Street
[7:06] Initiative. a little bit about our
[7:08] design committee. It's completely
[7:09] volunteer-run committee and we just um
[7:12] think of ways that we could spruce
[7:14] things up specifically in the in the
[7:15] main street uh district. Uh so over the
[7:18] years the main street design committee
[7:19] has done stuff like the little free
[7:21] libraries and the artistic bike racks um
[7:24] the string lights and bank street all
[7:25] that good stuff. So that's us. Um so a
[7:29] little bit about the paint a hydrant
[7:30] program. So Tony actually brought this
[7:33] idea to our committee uh because he saw
[7:35] it in
[7:36] >> Emmas.
[7:37] >> Um so a lot of towns all over the
[7:39] country do it. Um but the idea is to
[7:42] take submissions from local artists and
[7:45] then assign them to fire hydrants around
[7:47] town to make them a little more
[7:49] beautiful and not just yellow. Um last
[7:52] year when we launched it, the response
[7:55] was really overwhelming. We had a lot of
[7:56] artists apply um and we reviewed all of
[7:59] them and then we sent them all to the
[8:01] fire department to review um and they
[8:04] approved all of them. There was so they
[8:07] do take a close look at it because there
[8:09] was one hydrant design last year that
[8:11] ended up like we had to fix it. So they
[8:13] did a bunch. It's the one on spring
[8:15] garden and third they did a bunch of
[8:16] flowers and it had a black background
[8:18] and Chief uh Hennings was like it can't
[8:22] have a black background. It's going to
[8:23] like blend into the environment too
[8:24] much. Okay. The reason why you're here
[8:26] tonight, just so you know, those
[8:27] hydrants are owned by the city. So, city
[8:30] council has to give permission, not the
[8:32] fire chief.
[8:32] >> Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, "This
[8:34] time we got to go to council." So, my
[8:36] apologies. We uh got it approved by the
[8:38] fire department.
[8:39] >> Most people don't understand that.
[8:40] >> Yeah.
[8:41] >> Don't worry about it.
[8:42] >> Um so, yeah, but they did look at a
[8:43] close eye and considered the safety and
[8:45] the appearance of all of them. So, that
[8:47] artist, we were like, "Hey, you have to
[8:48] change your black background to white."
[8:50] Um and it wasn't an issue. Uh, another
[8:52] thing is all the artists do sign a lot
[8:55] of agreements. Things like you have to
[8:58] understand that if something happens to
[9:00] the fire hydrant, it has to be replaced
[9:01] or anything like that's just going to
[9:03] happen. The artwork might not be
[9:04] permanent. Um, if it's an instance like
[9:07] on ferry and sick greaves right now,
[9:09] like it might be damaged. Um, and they
[9:10] all understood that and they understand
[9:12] that it's a thing that needs to be used.
[9:14] Uh, so that that's all laid out very
[9:16] clearly in the in the application. Um,
[9:18] so yeah. Uh, so year one we did 11
[9:22] hydrants. Um, all on
[9:25] Yeah. Oh, okay. So, we did um on East
[9:27] and Fourth Friday, we had all of the
[9:29] artists out at the same time painting
[9:31] the hydrants, so people could walk
[9:32] around and like meet and talk to all the
[9:34] artists. Um, it was super cool. It was
[9:35] the fourth Friday in September. The news
[9:38] actually came and did like a whole piece
[9:39] on it. So, it was really well received
[9:41] by the public and um, everyone was like,
[9:44] "Oh, I wish I knew about this. I would
[9:45] have submitted a design." And so that's
[9:46] why we're hoping to do um a second round
[9:49] for 2026 if approved.
[9:52] Um yeah, so so like I said, we we did a
[9:56] lot of um we we put a lot of thought
[9:58] into making sure that it was safe,
[10:00] making sure that it was okay with the
[10:01] fire department. Um so one of the things
[10:04] that's also listed in the application is
[10:06] like when you're thinking of your
[10:08] design, like try to make sure it has
[10:09] elements of yellow in it so it still has
[10:12] that like fire hydrant feel. um and
[10:15] making sure that people again understand
[10:17] that emergency operations take
[10:18] precedence. And then um we also
[10:22] took we we wanted to make sure that the
[10:25] artists were safe because they're like
[10:27] sitting on the sidewalk uh very close to
[10:29] the street painting the hydrants. So we
[10:30] coordinated with uh John Spedoni and he
[10:33] lended us some traffic cones. So we gave
[10:35] each hydrant artist a traffic cone to
[10:37] put out while they were out there
[10:38] painting. So, basically how it worked is
[10:39] once we approved their designs, uh, they
[10:42] picked up a little art kit at the public
[10:44] market, which was mason jars with all of
[10:46] the paint colors that they applied for
[10:49] and a traffic cone and a bunch of paint
[10:50] brushes and wipes and all that good
[10:52] stuff. Um, another thing about the paint
[10:54] is we actually reached out to the people
[10:56] who did this inas. We were like, what's
[10:58] the best paint for like a fire hydrant?
[10:59] Um, and they gave us this really I
[11:01] forget what it's called now, but this
[11:02] really awesome paint that I mean the
[11:03] fire hydrants, it's been a year now and
[11:05] they have held up like beautifully.
[11:07] there's been no chipping and it's gone
[11:08] through all the snow and rain and all
[11:10] that good stuff. So, I'm I'm very happy
[11:11] about uh the paint that we've used for
[11:13] the hydrants. So, nobody's bringing
[11:14] their own paint, a solid paint that we
[11:16] got. Um yeah.
[11:19] Uh so, I just provided uh along with the
[11:22] slides a sample of the application so
[11:24] you can see like what they're looking at
[11:26] when they apply. This was the
[11:27] application for last year. So, it would
[11:29] be exactly the same this year. The only
[11:30] thing we would change is the dates. Um
[11:32] like you have to be there for the fourth
[11:34] Friday painting event. Um mostly for a
[11:36] photo op. they can still paint like
[11:37] before or after. Um that's just so we
[11:40] have one day where everyone's out there
[11:41] at the same time. Um and then some of
[11:44] the design requirements and emergency
[11:46] operations, things like that. And then
[11:47] yeah, so basically they they fill out
[11:50] the application and then they actually
[11:51] just color it in like a coloring book
[11:53] and we take a look at the design and
[11:55] send it over to the fire department.
[11:58] Um, so planning for 2026. I'm going to
[12:00] leave that to Tony so he can tell you um
[12:03] why we selected the locations that we
[12:04] did that we're hoping to get approved.
[12:08] >> All right. Thank you, Julie. Um, so
[12:10] yeah, we're trying to plan for six more
[12:12] hydrants uh downtown here this year.
[12:14] Again, this is just going to be within
[12:15] the East and Main Street initiative uh
[12:17] downtown district. So that's why it's
[12:19] very limited to, you know, up there by
[12:21] Bushkill um going to the river and then
[12:23] going up to Sixth Street on the west
[12:24] side. So, we selected six locations more
[12:27] so to the north to go kind of like
[12:29] bridge the gap between downtown and
[12:31] Lafayette. We picked one by uh Scott
[12:34] Park there because it's, you know, it's
[12:35] very much frequented for the farmers
[12:36] market on Saturdays and also one at the
[12:39] 400 block of Northampton just to kind of
[12:40] pay homage to, you know, the hotel fire
[12:42] that happened this year. And then the
[12:44] confluence as well um down there by
[12:46] McDonald's.
[12:48] This is just more of a description of of
[12:50] where these locations are. Um, again,
[12:53] the intention that the design committee
[12:54] had with selecting these were to bridge
[12:56] the gap through art between Lafayette
[12:57] College and downtown, give attention to
[12:58] the 400 block of Northampton after the
[13:00] fire and highlight the the riverfront.
[13:03] So, we're really just asking, you know,
[13:04] city council support for these six
[13:06] locations or if there's any comments
[13:08] that council has or if they'd want to
[13:09] see another one somewhere different.
[13:16] » South.
[13:17] >> So, I was going to mention that it's
[13:19] Main Street,
[13:20] >> so they can only do down here, but I so
[13:23] I chair the Southside Spark, which got
[13:25] the MPP grant. So, I'm going to send an
[13:27] email to people on the board and you two
[13:31] tomorrow because there's money there so
[13:34] you guys can meet with them so we can
[13:35] bring that into the Southside and then
[13:37] we'll look at doing that into the West
[13:39] W. Um because I think it looks good
[13:42] downtown and I think the Southside, the
[13:45] West W, College Hill neighborhoods can
[13:47] use some of that as well. I think
[13:48] there's a way we can we can do that. It
[13:50] doesn't I think it's a significant cost.
[13:52] Um, and we can get the artist. So, I'm
[13:54] going to email you two and copy them
[13:56] tonight or tomorrow so we can get a
[13:58] meeting and see how we can get this into
[13:59] the three different neighborhoods.
[14:01] >> Yeah, that'd be fantastic.
[14:02] >> Thank you.
[14:03] >> Yeah, the program costs basically
[14:05] nothing. I think we spent like $500 on
[14:07] paint last year and that was our only
[14:08] cost and we still have a bunch of paint
[14:10] left over. So,
[14:11] >> beautiful. We're going to need that.
[14:12] >> And all the all the artists, I mean,
[14:14] they were volunteer artists. So,
[14:17] >> I think it's a great program. They came
[14:18] out really well and I just being
[14:20] downtown every day I see people stopping
[14:22] taking photos or kids like tracing the
[14:25] designs and it's just a neat little
[14:27] feature. It's something you would
[14:28] normally overlook and it's just a neat
[14:32] pop of color as you walk through
[14:34] downtown.
[14:35] >> Well done.
[14:36] >> Absolutely. Very good. Thank you guys.
[14:38] >> Thank you.
[14:44] » Christian and Officer Crossen.
[14:47] There they are. I couldn't see you. I
[14:49] didn't know where you went to. I knew
[14:50] you were here, but I didn't know where
[14:51] you went.
[14:53] >> They're going to give us an update on
[14:55] the uh and success stories of the recent
[14:57] outcomes of the homeless population.
[15:06] » Hi, Jeff.
[15:07] >> We brought some friends with us, Safe
[15:10] Harbor Stream team.
[15:13] >> Um we just wanted to give you a quick
[15:18] Kristen, I'm sorry. Can you speak in
[15:20] directly into the microphone?
[15:22] >> Sorry.
[15:22] >> Thank you. Much better.
[15:24] >> Um, we just wanted to give a quick
[15:26] update. Um, we've been out there. Um,
[15:28] fortunately, we've had uh some help for
[15:30] officer crossing out there. We've had
[15:32] another officer out on a bike. I think
[15:35] two days out of
[15:38] two or three out of five. He can give
[15:39] more information on that, but we've had
[15:42] um an increase in contacts with people.
[15:44] We've been able to get so far this year
[15:46] 42 people into some level of treatment.
[15:49] >> Now that this year,
[15:52] >> yes, this year, but in full
[15:54] transparency, that number does represent
[15:56] some individuals that were helped to get
[15:58] into treatment multiple times. Um, so
[16:02] that number is out there.
[16:04] We've also had um people that have been
[16:07] arrested for violating the law in the
[16:09] city or violating ordinances. We've had
[16:11] an increase in that also. um addressing
[16:14] the issues uh the quality of life issues
[16:16] that are happening that are being
[16:17] brought uh to our attention. I think
[16:20] there were after this afternoon 67 or 68
[16:25] arrests of individuals um breaking the
[16:27] law and officer crossing can talk more
[16:29] about that if you have questions. Um and
[16:31] of those 42 were individual people. So
[16:34] we have quite a few people that we know
[16:36] are problematic and they're refusing
[16:38] treatment and we're just kind of in this
[16:41] cycle right now. are still trying. Um,
[16:43] but we wanted to really focus today.
[16:45] >> Kristen, I'm sorry. The 4267 whatever we
[16:49] just mentioned, those are confirmed
[16:51] unhoused or are they just people that
[16:53] were familiar with downtown?
[16:54] >> So, those are people we're familiar with
[16:56] downtown that are transient. Most of
[16:58] those folks are coming over from New
[17:00] Jersey during the day.
[17:01] >> Right. Okay.
[17:02] >> That's what we're seeing.
[17:03] >> So, they're not east and unhoused.
[17:05] They're just issues that we're having
[17:07] problems with these people. Right. Okay.
[17:09] All right. Thank you. So, with
[17:10] everything that's been happening locally
[17:12] with different cities and encampments
[17:14] and things like that, we've had an
[17:16] increase in people from out of the area.
[17:19] Um, we've had police departments in New
[17:22] Jersey bringing people here in patrol
[17:25] cars.
[17:25] >> I see now.
[17:27] >> So, we've we've really been trying to
[17:29] stay on top of it. Um, we also received
[17:33] Safe Harbor received a call from an
[17:35] individual who was unhoused in New
[17:37] Jersey and went for supportive services
[17:39] and the shelter there told them that
[17:42] they can help him by giving him a bus
[17:43] ticket to Easton. That was their
[17:45] solution for this man. Um, and he had
[17:48] the wits about him to call Safe Harbor
[17:50] and be like, "Hey, just so you know,
[17:52] every person that is unhoused that comes
[17:54] through this shelter is essentially
[17:56] being told their option is a bus pass to
[17:58] East."
[17:59] Um, so,
[18:01] >> so Chris, we've been hearing this for a
[18:03] couple years.
[18:06] >> Is there a way to combat it? Is there a
[18:08] solution? It's not fair to the people
[18:10] here that need help because we're using
[18:12] our resources and everything to help
[18:14] people that are coming just to take
[18:16] advantage of services. Is there any way
[18:18] between Safe Harbor, police, us? So I
[18:21] what I can say is and they can everybody
[18:23] can chime in on this too because we all
[18:25] kind of have our own ideas and thoughts
[18:27] but um we're working part of the reason
[18:29] for bringing safe harbor today was just
[18:32] um so that everyone can um ask any of us
[18:35] questions because we are working so
[18:36] closely together on these individuals.
[18:38] Um a lot of individuals that are not
[18:40] from here and want to get back to where
[18:42] they came from. We coordinate with Safe
[18:44] Harbor and Safe Harbor has a some
[18:47] funding and we can get people back to
[18:49] where home is for them. We've had quite
[18:51] a few people like released from prison
[18:53] that aren't necessarily from Eastn, but
[18:55] the prison's here, so they're here. Um,
[18:58] and Safe Harbor has been incredible
[19:00] helping us find placement for people.
[19:02] Um, and if we call them and say, "Hey,
[19:05] we have an individual that needs support
[19:07] that is from East and needs the
[19:09] resources," they are they're going to
[19:11] make it happen. They're I mean
[19:13] incredible with that. So I don't know if
[19:16] anybody else
[19:16] >> Chris just a quick question. One of my
[19:18] staff brought it to my attention that uh
[19:21] Philsburg and even down to Warren County
[19:24] don't have a place that can save her.
[19:26] >> They do not
[19:27] >> and that then what you just said was
[19:28] absolutely what you told me that they
[19:31] just sent them over there.
[19:34] >> Newton, New Jersey.
[19:35] >> Yeah. We had
[19:36] >> Newton New Jersey. [clears throat]
[19:37] the people that called them said
[19:40] [snorts] Newton stopped somebody Newton
[19:42] New Jersey which is an hour away
[19:44] >> hour and a half uh stopped this guy told
[19:47] him
[19:49] if you want services you can go to
[19:51] Easton and then two other places in New
[19:53] Jersey
[19:54] >> but we were one of the options he gave
[19:56] us the bus pass two here basically
[19:59] because they're the draw so
[20:01] >> we did call him back and speak with them
[20:03] he had no reason to call us they had no
[20:05] reason to call them either we don't know
[20:06] them we never dealt with him because I
[20:08] just want you guys to know that this is
[20:09] happening and it's happening a lot. So,
[20:12] the only thing we can really do to
[20:14] combat it is just stay on top of it
[20:16] really just by being out there all the
[20:18] time and knowing everybody. That's why I
[20:20] have the relationship with Jeff and
[20:22] Sarah is that we talk to each other all
[20:23] the time when they see new people coming
[20:25] in out of nowhere. We communicate it.
[20:27] So, it's a lot easier to know the faces
[20:30] and then you guys agree that there's an
[20:32] uptake out.
[20:36] » Go ahead, sir.
[20:37] >> I just also want to be clear. So, as far
[20:39] as we go, um, at Safe Harbor, when we
[20:43] uh, intake someone to our shelter, um,
[20:46] female referrals go through myself, male
[20:48] referrals go through Jeff. We've both
[20:50] got over a decade of experience in Safe
[20:54] Harbor, um, and the work that we're
[20:56] doing. So, we do a specific interview to
[20:58] get certain background information about
[21:00] the individual that is referred to us
[21:02] and part of that interview is kind of
[21:07] determining where that individual is
[21:08] coming from and where their roots are.
[21:11] We do prioritize Eastern or Northampton
[21:13] County residents at Safe Harbor. So, um,
[21:17] if someone is referred to us either from
[21:20] Kristen and Officer Crossen, um, or if
[21:22] they're just a walk-in, we are usually
[21:25] asking, "Hey, where were you last?" And
[21:28] one of the questions that we always ask
[21:30] is, "Do you have family support system,
[21:33] housing of any kind in any place other
[21:35] than here?" Um and that is because not
[21:38] only are we trying to reduce the burden
[21:41] locally, right, for individuals who
[21:43] might be unhoused, but also because if
[21:45] that individual has already established
[21:47] a support network or services elsewhere,
[21:50] it is much more simple and
[21:52] cost-effective to relocate that
[21:54] individual to where they have supports
[21:57] rather than to try to reopen and
[21:58] reestablish them in a whole new area
[22:00] being east and north county. Right? So
[22:03] that is something that on our end on the
[22:05] shelter side is being done. Um the other
[22:07] thing that we've done is we identified a
[22:09] need several years ago um which has been
[22:11] aided by both Chris and Officer Crossen
[22:14] and then um the new officer who's
[22:15] working as well. He
[22:18] uh well officer Crossson at one point
[22:20] had kind of talked to us about the fact
[22:22] that we do end up with folks who tend to
[22:24] kind of end up stranded in East End. And
[22:27] so one of the things that we've done at
[22:28] Safe Harbor is secured grant funding for
[22:30] emergency um transportation assistance.
[22:33] So if anyone from EPD comes across an
[22:36] individual who does have those supports
[22:38] in another area, Safe Harbor is able to
[22:40] step in and provide that assistance to
[22:42] get the individual back where they
[22:44] already have established supports or
[22:45] family who are willing to provide
[22:46] housing.
[22:48] >> I hope that helps.
[22:49] >> So it does. Well, not really to my
[22:53] question.
[22:53] >> Sure. But I think everybody here knows
[22:55] and and whoever knows the four of you
[22:57] know you guys are doing an amazing job.
[23:00] My question more along the lines of how
[23:03] can we be more preventative? I don't
[23:05] know from our solicitor if if we find
[23:08] because we've had the mayor, we've had
[23:09] police officers witness uh uh Betham
[23:13] people get dropped off here from Betham,
[23:15] New York, New Jersey, whatever. A way to find them if we have proof. Reason
[23:20] being, you guys are doing great, but
[23:21] there's only four of you. the more
[23:23] people that keep coming, you're not
[23:24] going to be able to keep up with it,
[23:25] right? And and we can't raise taxes on
[23:27] residents and and on struggling families
[23:29] here to help support people that aren't
[23:32] from here. So, there's there's got to be
[23:34] some type of way we can be proactive. I
[23:36] mean, you guys are doing a great job
[23:37] with what you're doing, but how much
[23:39] more can you really take on in the city,
[23:42] right? I mean, you know, we talked
[23:44] yesterday. I met mayor with the
[23:45] residents from the senior house across
[23:47] from uh
[23:49] >> so our police are doing a great job
[23:50] monitoring the circle in downtown but
[23:52] now they're going over there.
[23:53] >> We had a woman that was defecating on
[23:55] the tree uh uh in the back in the
[23:57] courtyard. They're smoking drugs.
[23:59] They're doing this or doing that.
[24:00] >> She was housed. She was the housed
[24:02] individual and we got her treatment
[24:04] yesterday. She is in treatment at
[24:06] >> She
[24:08] around 1:00.
[24:08] >> Right. So, but but the point is there's
[24:11] so many more people coming.
[24:12] >> Yeah. We can't, you know what I mean? We
[24:15] can't keep up with it and we can't tax
[24:18] residents and put the burden on eastern
[24:20] people to help people from other other
[24:22] places because their municipalities
[24:24] don't want to deal with it. So, there's
[24:25] got to be a way that we could be
[24:26] preventative or penalize these
[24:28] municipalities when we catch them
[24:30] dropping their people off.
[24:31] >> So, we have found Officer Cross and
[24:34] myself, um, like three years ago,
[24:36] everyone knows when we kind of started
[24:37] this, we were really trying to piece it
[24:39] together and figure out what's going to
[24:40] work and what's not going to work. And
[24:42] what we found is that the sooner we
[24:44] identify someone as kind of being
[24:46] transient through the city, not really
[24:49] kind of just an out ofplace situation or
[24:51] being unhoused or when Safe Harbor
[24:53] identifies someone, we're making contact
[24:56] as quickly as possible and as frequently
[24:58] as possible. The reason being, for
[25:00] instance, we had a woman um kind of way
[25:04] out there and her son was caring for
[25:06] her. She had mobility issues.
[25:09] Talk to her. She's on the street
[25:10] sleeping outside. what's going on? Oh,
[25:13] well, I was evicted in New Jersey. I
[25:14] have services in New Jersey. I maxed out
[25:17] from this service in New Jersey. So,
[25:18] they told me to go to Pennsylvania. And
[25:20] I said, "The best thing you can do for
[25:22] yourself is go back to New Jersey where
[25:25] you have benefits established because to
[25:28] restart that process here is a is a
[25:30] whole big can of worms." And she
[25:32] listened to that. So, that's kind of
[25:34] been the way we've been. Now, sometimes
[25:36] it works, sometimes it doesn't, but
[25:38] that's kind of what we've been doing to
[25:39] try and keep up with it is getting
[25:41] people back to where they were last
[25:43] established or where they have supports.
[25:46] Um, there were
[25:48] quite a few I mean, just in I would say
[25:51] this year we probably had 10 people that
[25:54] weren't from this area and just kind of
[25:55] landed here. Um, that we with Safe
[25:58] Harbor have been able to get back to
[26:01] where they have supports and resources.
[26:04] Um, but as far as
[26:06] >> just forget it, I don't do it. Just what
[26:08] we were talking about before, they had
[26:10] received the money. We just had this
[26:12] happen. I didn't get to tell you guys,
[26:15] one
[26:18] >> and there was another guy we got. We
[26:19] found he was thrown out of the prison
[26:21] yet was ever released from the prison.
[26:25] Was stuck here. We worked with Safe
[26:28] Harbor to get him a bus ticket out to
[26:30] State College. Right. For whatever
[26:31] reason, he had to go back to State
[26:33] College. They received the funding for
[26:35] it, bought the bus ticket. We went down,
[26:37] picked him up, brought him to the
[26:38] terminal, put him on the bus, out he
[26:40] went.
[26:41] 15 minutes before this meeting started,
[26:43] I saw him at Second in Northampton.
[26:45] >> Oh,
[26:46] >> that's my point.
[26:46] >> Yeah, that was my next question. Are you
[26:48] seeing these people coming back?
[26:50] >> They do come back.
[26:51] >> You you can just that it's just the
[26:52] hustle of just continuously
[26:55] monitoring because literally I just
[26:57] drove by them. I'm like, what are you
[26:58] doing back?
[26:59] >> But my question is and I know our
[27:00] solicitor has something to say. They
[27:03] come out of North Hampton County Prison,
[27:04] they have nowhere to go. I I get that.
[27:06] Or people that are just traveling. I get
[27:07] that. My biggest concern is
[27:10] >> other police departments and things
[27:12] dropping them off here. That's what I'm
[27:13] talking about combating.
[27:14] >> Been going on for so long.
[27:16] >> That's the thing. Everybody knows in
[27:18] Warren County that we have safe.
[27:20] >> Exactly.
[27:21] >> Right. They know it exists. So the
[27:22] easiest thing they can say is, "Hey
[27:24] boss, I'm going to take them over to
[27:25] safe harbor." They don't care that they
[27:26] don't have a bed. They don't
[27:28] >> They just do it and they drop them off
[27:29] in the cover of night and they take off.
[27:32] So I it's been going on for as long I've
[27:34] been here 16 years going long as I've
[27:36] been here.
[27:36] >> So my question is do we have any
[27:37] leverage when we catch those.
[27:39] >> So legally I don't know how much
[27:42] leverage the city has because people
[27:44] have a right to travel. Now legally is
[27:47] different than politically and public
[27:49] relations and the one thing we need is
[27:52] data and information and there are going
[27:55] to be groups and organizations in this
[27:57] area say some people in those areas
[27:59] might be glad they might say fine ship
[28:01] them out of here make them not our
[28:03] problem but there are going to be other
[28:04] people who do recognize that that's a
[28:06] horrible thing to do some is take them
[28:08] away from where their roots are just
[28:11] because of their living circumstances
[28:13] and send them an hour two hour 2 hours
[28:15] by car, an hour by car, that's a
[28:18] lifetime by foot.
[28:19] >> So I think that's where gathering the
[28:21] data to get that information and there
[28:24] are levers. There is pressure that can
[28:26] be put, but it's more in the political
[28:28] and public relations arena directly than
[28:31] illegal. Now there may be issues with
[28:32] regard to civil rights that are being
[28:34] violated depending on what kind of
[28:35] pressure is being put on people, but
[28:37] that would be an issue for them those
[28:39] people who don't always have the
[28:41] resources to take up. There also may be
[28:43] something specifically that can be done
[28:45] to integrate between the city to
[28:46] communicate between the city and the
[28:47] county with regards specifically to
[28:51] there's probably there is probably some
[28:53] room to work with the county
[28:54] specifically on the issues of when
[28:56] people are being discharged. Like when
[28:58] someone maxes out there's there's
[28:59] nothing you can do. If they're maxed
[29:00] out, they're maxed out. But there has to
[29:03] be a way to coordinate that with with
[29:05] the prison so you're not dumping
[29:07] somebody who's not from Easton out on
[29:09] the street at 2 in the morning from
[29:11] Northampton County Prison.
[29:12] >> That would be huge. That's
[29:13] >> I mean I'm sure there's got to be some
[29:15] kind of coordination that can be
[29:16] accomplished uh with the county.
[29:19] >> Um I can reach out to um I can reach out
[29:23] at least to the county. I can talk to
[29:25] people at the county and see what the ability to coordinate with the
[29:28] city on that specific issue is. But as
[29:31] far as the the other issue, it's really
[29:33] going to lie more in the political and
[29:35] public relations realm. But I think to
[29:36] get there, we need the data. We need to
[29:38] know where these what which
[29:40] municipalities are doing this. Where is
[29:42] it coming from? And get hard so we can
[29:45] say no, this is these are the eight
[29:47] people in the last six months that were
[29:49] dropped off here from your municipality,
[29:51] by your police department, or were
[29:53] directed here by this shelter that's
[29:55] getting funding from you. Like I think
[29:57] that's what we need is the information.
[29:59] And I and just to thank you very much,
[30:01] Mike. Just to be clear, you know, when
[30:03] people just when life brings them here,
[30:05] >> we I think we do an amazing job
[30:07] providing and trying to find resources
[30:09] for them. My concern is to your point,
[30:12] you know, there was one of our officers
[30:14] witnessed a locally municipal local
[30:16] municipality in a police car drop their
[30:18] people off in the circle. And when our
[30:20] police officer asked him what's going
[30:21] on, he said, "I have no idea. They
[30:23] picked me up here and said and threw me
[30:25] in the car and they just dropped me off
[30:27] here." that's that's a violation for
[30:29] them and for us and and you know we need
[30:32] to be able to do something
[30:33] >> and that's also something where it's the
[30:36] same thing where if it's within
[30:37] Northampton County there's there may be
[30:39] some benefit to tracking that
[30:42] information and trying to interface with
[30:44] the county
[30:45] >> to turn around and maybe put some
[30:47] downward pressure on the other
[30:48] municipalities to be like look this is
[30:50] not how the county is supposed to
[30:52] function we're not just pushing
[30:54] >> pushing east is a great place to
[30:57] But it doesn't mean that you should be
[30:59] dumping people here.
[31:00] >> Absolutely. So,
[31:01] >> so I'm going to send an email tonight to
[31:03] our county executive and the mayor and
[31:06] scowls or whatever and we'll all get
[31:08] together and I'll get some council
[31:09] members and we'll talk about how we can
[31:11] work better on that and I'll get you you
[31:13] two involved as well. We just have to
[31:14] sit down and find out how we can
[31:16] >> do better. It might be beneficial to
[31:18] loop in like not just the county but the
[31:21] court system because the individual that
[31:23] came back from State College. He came
[31:25] back because he had a court hearing and
[31:27] he didn't want to get a warrant. And two
[31:29] weeks ago we had another guy that got a
[31:31] warrant in Pittsburgh, he came back here
[31:33] stranded, nowhere to go, but he had to
[31:35] stay in the area
[31:37] >> because he had another hearing in a
[31:38] month. So he's trying to get his life in
[31:41] order, but like
[31:43] >> his services are in Pittsburgh. So,
[31:45] >> who's the who's the president judge now?
[31:47] >> It's still Craig Dailyy.
[31:49] >> Okay.
[31:49] >> Um,
[31:50] >> I'm not sure if we can streamline that
[31:51] in any way.
[31:53] >> Office in the email.
[31:56] >> Just thinking the bus station right
[31:59] below us. I think a lot of them are
[32:01] coming in on the buses. If they're
[32:02] coming in from Morristown, New Jersey or
[32:04] Essex County, they're not just being
[32:06] dropped off. They're coming buses. a way
[32:09] to kind of capt.
[32:17] » They're getting dropped off here too,
[32:18] Jeff, because I saw the state New Jersey
[32:21] state police officer drop them off right
[32:23] downstairs.
[32:25] >> Just come right to safe harbor and drop
[32:27] them off.
[32:28] >> That's crazy. I mean, not just for us,
[32:30] but total disregard for them. And
[32:33] >> and it's one thing if a person says,
[32:35] "I'm from East." Yeah. And now you're
[32:37] doing them a favor by giving them a ride
[32:38] home. But it's another thing to drop
[32:40] somebody
[32:41] >> hours away from where
[32:44] >> New Jersey residines
[32:51] » insurance. So,
[32:53] >> well, and I think we should we need to
[32:54] be clear. They're not dropping them off
[32:56] because they want to get them help. They
[32:58] just don't want to deal with it. And
[33:00] they know we can help, but it's out of
[33:02] their hair. So, and it's just terrible
[33:03] for what they're doing to the people.
[33:04] >> And I think lately it's been um a lot
[33:07] less from PA local communities. I don't
[33:11] know what you guys are seeing, but as
[33:12] far as what Officer Carson and I are
[33:13] seeing, it's been a lot less um it's
[33:16] been slowing down, if you will, from
[33:18] kind of the rest of Northampton County.
[33:20] Um, Officer Crossson and I are working
[33:22] with the Northampton County um, crisis
[33:26] intervention team and we are attending
[33:28] um, month it's monthly meetings with the
[33:31] county um, and other police departments
[33:32] and we're all kind of at the table
[33:35] talking about these things. So, since we
[33:37] started doing that, we're getting phone
[33:39] calls from other departments saying,
[33:41] "Hey, we have this issue. Normally, we
[33:43] would just drop them off at Safe Harbor,
[33:45] but how would you how can we help this
[33:47] person?" I've gotten in the last month
[33:50] I've gotten two calls just from one
[33:53] department. So those conversations are
[33:55] happening. So I think we're doing
[33:57] everything we can to try and move that
[33:59] in the right direction. But the biggest
[34:01] struggle for us because it if somebody
[34:02] comes here from Bethlehem and wants
[34:04] help, I can get them help. That is not a
[34:06] big deal. It is what it is, right? But
[34:08] if somebody is here from Essex, New
[34:11] Jersey, they can't get drug and alcohol
[34:14] treatment in Pennsylvania. They can't
[34:16] get mental health treatment. Well, they
[34:17] can if it's emergent only if it's a
[34:22] life or death situation and that's where we're we're really
[34:26] struggling and we can't get them on the
[34:28] road to creating better life for
[34:30] themselves.
[34:32] >> But even even Bethtown, I appreciate you
[34:34] helping them, but when Beth Mantown
[34:37] closed their camps, they know where
[34:38] they're going. Well, send us a check,
[34:40] pay for an extra position, help us help
[34:43] the people, right? you're taking the
[34:45] burden off of your municipalities,
[34:46] putting it on us, and you're not you're
[34:48] not making a phone call. You're not
[34:49] offering any assistance. It's not fair
[34:51] to the people or for or for anybody.
[34:55] >> So, I have a question. Um
[34:58] irrespective of the bad actors who are
[35:00] dropping people off in East. Um, it
[35:03] appears also that just the homeless are
[35:06] gravitating towards Eastston. And my
[35:09] understanding uh from being on the board
[35:12] of Safe Harbor is that Safe Harbor has
[35:14] finite resources. They do a fantastic
[35:16] job, but they have a finite number of
[35:18] beds. Uh, their warming uh center in the
[35:22] winter is uh they can only allow a
[35:25] finite number of people to stay there.
[35:27] They do have free lunches. Um and so
[35:30] that's um terrific for people who need
[35:34] that resource. So my question is I'm I
[35:39] understand there are ad hoc
[35:41] activities going on in the community
[35:44] unrelated to safe harbor that serve the
[35:47] homeless. Are they attracting people
[35:51] from outside of east? Is does Eastston
[35:54] have the reputation of somewhere where
[35:56] you can get clothing, bedding, sleeping
[36:00] bags, tents, and so on?
[36:03] >> Yeah,
[36:03] >> without without a doubt. It's definitely
[36:06] we've seen an uptick since that
[36:07] situation began.
[36:10] >> See, that's that's something the city
[36:12] needs to consider. like I don't want to
[36:15] interfere in any way with any community
[36:17] organization that's trying to help, but
[36:20] if they're actually turning into a
[36:22] magnet for people from out of town to
[36:24] come in, then that's that's an issue the
[36:26] city should probably address.
[36:28] >> Some specific groups try to push them
[36:30] down towards safe so they can still do
[36:33] their same thing they're doing but in an
[36:35] environment that's controlled and
[36:37] they're used to handling the amount of
[36:39] people and they have bathrooms and they
[36:40] have things like that. So,
[36:44] Councilwoman,
[36:46] >> also, you know, they require people who
[36:48] are are going to be staying there to
[36:51] abide by their rules. So, there's no
[36:52] drug and alcohol and so on. So, um you
[36:56] know, again,
[36:58] how come people are just coming to
[37:00] Easton when, you know, it's not an easy
[37:03] road to to to be in Easton if if there's
[37:07] not enough beds at Safe Harbor. you have
[37:10] to you have to go through their
[37:11] coursework and so on. [clears throat]
[37:13] >> If we know who's doing the ad hoc
[37:16] >> operations, we can send codes down there
[37:18] because I remember very vividly how Safe
[37:21] Harbor started because I started Safe
[37:22] Harbor. It was uh who was the priest up
[37:26] at Lafia College. Father,
[37:29] >> oh my god, I can't remember his name.
[37:31] >> No, none of us were here when you
[37:32] started. I know you
[37:33] >> I know that. But but you know,
[37:37] we started it
[37:39] at a time when we didn't know what
[37:42] homeless was or unhoused. We we didn't
[37:44] we had no idea what it was because we
[37:45] never experienced it. But we started it
[37:49] the night that we gave the the
[37:50] million-dollar loan to the state
[37:52] theaters. Everybody said, "Why are you
[37:54] giving it to all the rich people? The
[37:55] only rich people could go to state
[37:56] theater." So, we did the safe harbor
[37:58] same night and it got approved. But
[38:01] I think what was his name? Well, anyway,
[38:05] f whatever his father's name was. Um, he
[38:08] was having a press conference at the
[38:11] circle blasting me because I was helping
[38:15] I was here. They shut down the code team
[38:17] shut down all the ad hoc operations. We
[38:20] were putting the homeless in church
[38:22] halls and the parents were getting mad
[38:24] because their kids were eating dinner or
[38:26] lunch in that same room that the people
[38:29] were sleeping in at night. So he was
[38:32] having Father Hagen. Is that right?
[38:35] Father Hagen sounds. Yes. Close to that.
[38:38] And um and he was having a press
[38:40] conference against me and blasting me
[38:43] for shutting down all the the ad hoc
[38:46] groups. So if we know who they are, we
[38:48] could send our code team down because
[38:49] I'm sure they're not up to code.
[38:51] >> I I think they have already been
[38:53] involved with this the one group that we
[38:56] know to be problematic. Just for clarity
[38:59] for for the public and watching for
[39:00] councilwoman you're talking about just
[39:03] some of the local people that are coming
[39:04] together to do this not our churches and
[39:05] things that
[39:06] >> not the churches
[39:07] >> right right okay just the individuals
[39:09] >> right it like individuals who are on
[39:10] Facebook and so on
[39:12] >> they tend to be a problem for us
[39:14] >> you know that's
[39:17] we don't want
[39:19] our city to be a magnet uh for the
[39:22] homeless we want to be able to serve our
[39:23] homeless population our indigent
[39:26] homeless population.
[39:28] Um, so I don't know, you know, that's
[39:30] it's a bit of a difficult question
[39:32] because I could see the public being up
[39:34] in arms if we are like disassembling
[39:36] those activities.
[39:38] Um, I
[39:39] >> I think people need to to realize
[39:42] >> we have a lot of great people in the
[39:43] community that want to donate tents and
[39:45] everything else. The problem is when when we cleaned out the Elm Street
[39:50] area, they they already left. We didn't
[39:52] clean them out. We just cleaned
[39:53] leftovers.
[39:55] You guys still have the pictures. I
[39:56] think I might have them.
[39:59] >> Thousands of of things, brand new, price
[40:02] tags on them, t never opened before. So,
[40:04] these people need to understand they're
[40:06] helping. We We appreciate them trying to
[40:08] help, but they're buying all these
[40:10] things and giving it to people that have
[40:12] nowhere to put it and it's all just
[40:14] being discarded.
[40:15] >> I mean, the majority of the dumpsters
[40:16] you guys filled were brand new clothing
[40:19] and tents and shoes and crisp, so
[40:22] they're not even really getting
[40:23] utilized, right? So all these people are
[40:25] collecting and g and they're not being
[40:26] utilized. They're being thrown away.
[40:28] Not, you know, the people are doing what
[40:30] their heart tells them to do, which we
[40:32] appreciate. And the people that are
[40:33] taking them want them, but they have
[40:34] nowhere to put them. You know, when they
[40:36] go to the group, Safe Harbor, Shiloh, UC
[40:38] Project, they're documenting these
[40:41] people. They get licensed, you know, ID
[40:43] where they're from. So, I mean, that's
[40:44] where I try to direct people to help
[40:47] them, volunteer with them, give them
[40:49] stuff,
[40:50] >> you know, but so, you know, I think once
[40:52] people realize that a lot of their
[40:53] donations are being discarded, it might
[40:56] help them to start going to Safe Harbor
[40:58] and Project East and Third Street
[40:59] Alliance more. I think we just have to
[41:01] communicate that.
[41:02] >> I mean, that's what we try to say
[41:04] whenever someone reaches out to us with
[41:07] donations.
[41:08] I even had what two boxes of donations
[41:11] in my office um that I just brought to
[41:13] Third Street Alliance like last week
[41:14] that
[41:16] I don't I think some of the officers
[41:18] brought stuff in, but I mean we're
[41:20] trying to make sure that people know
[41:22] that their donations are appreciated and
[41:25] there are certainly people that need
[41:26] them, but we want to make sure they're
[41:28] funneled to the people that need them
[41:30] and can use them right in the moment.
[41:34] I think if I can just state something, I
[41:37] mean, I certainly don't want to um I
[41:40] think there's a lot of hearts in the
[41:41] right places, right? But what Jeff and I
[41:44] have found and and our our peers at at
[41:46] Third Street and Project and all of the
[41:48] wonderful organizations that are
[41:50] established here in Easton is that
[41:53] services need to be offered alongside
[41:56] support. There has to be some level of
[41:59] like that client having the personal
[42:01] accountability to at least like
[42:04] want to
[42:06] further their circumstances and a lot of
[42:09] the times that requires some help. That
[42:11] requires us building rapport and you
[42:13] know
[42:13] >> Yeah. Uh but but services need to be
[42:17] offered alongside support. Um not just
[42:20] kind of like a blank check that doesn't
[42:21] do anyone any good. And I think the
[42:23] thing that's really difficult when we
[42:25] get into helping fields is there's a
[42:26] very thin line between uh helping and
[42:31] enabling. And that is the line that Jeff
[42:33] and I I mean we struggle with that every
[42:35] day. Um and it's something that takes
[42:38] like a lot of time to develop. But
[42:40] that's I think where we can focus as as
[42:42] a community is just making sure that the
[42:44] services that we're offering are are
[42:46] really helping people move forward and
[42:48] not just kind of enabling folks to be
[42:49] comfortable in circumstances that really
[42:51] aren't serving them either.
[42:55] >> I mean I don't have any solutions to how
[42:57] to I mean other than shutting down ad
[43:00] hoc organizations you know or people
[43:04] does anybody
[43:06] I mean it's it's a tough one. How how
[43:09] much does it distract from like what you
[43:11] do or how many how many people let's say
[43:14] do you think are coming to Eastston for
[43:17] because of the ad hoc um services?
[43:22] >> I can't speak to that. I don't think
[43:24] it's it's overly and I mean we we kind
[43:26] of focus on our own operations.
[43:29] >> What we're seeing is the
[43:31] we're getting a lot of people during the
[43:33] day in the city that
[43:35] >> are from New Jersey and somewhere in New
[43:38] Jersey wheal
[43:52] or the drug and alcohol or you know
[43:54] whatever family problems or underlying
[43:56] issues there are
[43:58] >> can't stop that.
[44:00] >> That that's that's very true. One of the
[44:01] things I was just thinking about for
[44:03] lack of a better word in their community
[44:07] they work on word by mouth and I can
[44:11] almost guarantee you that that word by
[44:13] mouth is reaching Jersey
[44:15] >> and reaching back and that's a hard
[44:18] avenue to try to combat because we're
[44:21] not involved with that communication.
[44:24] >> Yeah. It seems like the only way you
[44:25] could really, you know, let's say
[44:27] control or regulate or shut down, you
[44:30] know, um these organizations that
[44:33] potentially are enabling homelessness
[44:37] um is if we had uh
[44:41] like an unlimited amount of beds that we
[44:45] could offer, right? But with in the
[44:47] absence of that,
[44:50] there's not really a lot that we could
[44:51] do.
[44:56] I think that's enough to satisfy
[45:02] one other point. the two of them.
[45:06] We did get two
[45:10] longer tenur people that have been here
[45:13] for years
[45:16] and one's been here since I started at
[45:19] >> well over 10 years ago
[45:33] team of
[45:37] and he's instrumental. Whenever we got a
[45:39] problem down, he is down there.
[45:56] But I really wanted to make sure that we
[45:57] were able to highlight um as Jeff said,
[46:01] people that have been here for a long
[46:03] time and um maybe resisted support,
[46:06] maybe resisted um our help initially, we
[46:09] took the time. Um the one individual
[46:12] that he mentioned that was here for six
[46:14] years, I can tell you that he probably
[46:17] had daily contact with
[46:20] both of them. And
[46:24] every shift that Jeff works, I'm sure
[46:25] he's had contact with that individual.
[46:27] And at every step, every contact, it was
[46:30] building that relationship, building
[46:32] that trust, helping that person. Um that
[46:34] individual was a veteran and he is now
[46:37] connected to services. I actually spoke
[46:38] with the facility today and he is
[46:41] acclimating well. He um has a long road
[46:44] ahead of him, but he is finally um
[46:48] sleeping under cover of a roof and and
[46:50] not a tent. Um and we actually were
[46:53] talking about the veteran population. I
[46:55] didn't share this with you guys yet, but
[46:57] um just looking back this year, we've
[47:01] been three for three with identified
[47:02] veterans that will accept our help and
[47:05] getting them support. and we've been
[47:07] able to do it really quickly. So,
[47:10] when people are ready to accept help, we can get it for them. Um, we have a a
[47:15] really strong network and the same with
[47:17] treatment providers. We have a strong
[47:18] network um within the drug and alcohol
[47:22] um treatment world and we're able to get
[47:24] people the help when they're ready for
[47:25] it. Um it's just kind of being patient
[47:27] and being there for them until they're
[47:29] ready. Um, so when we're trying to help
[47:32] people, you know, get ready for that,
[47:35] it's incredibly helpful to not have
[47:38] >> them being enabled
[47:41] to continue the path that they're on.
[47:42] >> Well, we think you're doing a great job,
[47:44] all four of you, and the new guy.
[47:46] >> Um, I'm a name Web.
[47:49] >> Web, Officer Web, calling him a while a
[47:53] while,
[47:54] >> but but he
[47:55] >> he's not one of the new guys I swear in.
[47:56] He's been here for a while.
[47:58] >> 15 years.
[47:59] Yeah,
[48:01] >> we're trying we're trying to get him him out a bit
[48:04] more, but um we have a lot of people
[48:07] that we have been able to help. Um I
[48:10] mentioned 42 earlier. There are people
[48:12] that are not included in those numbers.
[48:14] are just individuals that
[48:16] officer Crossen and I have had contact
[48:17] with and have specifically referred to a
[48:20] program. They don't account for every
[48:23] individual that Safe Harbor has helped,
[48:25] including the two that they sent back
[48:27] this week. We didn't have any contact
[48:28] with them. Safe Harbor took care of them
[48:31] before it became an issue where police
[48:33] were notified.
[48:35] So, I think it's definitely a team
[48:37] effort. I think we're doing everything
[48:39] we can um to move move the needle and help people. Um and I have to be
[48:45] honest. I mean, it's we're we're having
[48:47] a lot of success. Um so,
[48:51] >> well, we hear good things. I hear good
[48:53] things. And that's unusual
[48:56] >> because when I was here in the 80s, I
[48:57] didn't hear good things about our police
[48:59] department, but I'm hearing good things
[49:00] about all of our police officers, not
[49:02] just officer cross.
[49:04] >> Could you before you end, can you give
[49:05] us a quick update safe harbor on the
[49:08] transitional housing on Ferry Street,
[49:09] the new church that we last year last
[49:13] year?
[49:13] >> Sure. Um, so we had uh our first round
[49:17] move into that project in August of last
[49:20] year. So we're coming up on our our
[49:21] first year. Um we have two individuals
[49:23] who are going to be moving on two that
[49:25] are uh two units that are staying for an
[49:28] additional year and we're bringing two
[49:30] new individuals in. In that first round
[49:33] we had five of our shelter residents
[49:36] because we had a couple of uh roommate
[49:37] pairs. Um as well as a single mother and
[49:40] child from our day program. Um and then
[49:43] this round we have two individuals that
[49:45] are moving in. One also uh will have
[49:47] visitation with their child in the
[49:49] apartment that they could not prior
[49:50] which is really really awesome. Um, so
[49:52] yeah, everything's going very well. Uh,
[49:54] we're very grateful for the support of
[49:56] Mark um, Hammerstone. He's been
[49:58] fantastic. Um, so we have a good working
[50:00] relationship with him and of course Mike
[50:02] and Kelly who kind of had us up to that
[50:04] point when Mark stepped in. Um, but
[50:06] yeah, no, we're very grateful.
[50:11] » It's just a resource we didn't have.
[50:13] >> Y,
[50:16] >> great work.
[50:20] » Thank you.
[50:21] Hey, Crossson, by the way, you're really
[50:23] moving on that bike. Um, have you
[50:25] thought about joining the race that we
[50:27] have here? [laughter]
[50:28] >> I have thought about it. I know.
[50:30] >> Yeah, Julie, if you and Crystal can get
[50:32] him connected.
[50:34] >> Is that the electric bike? [laughter]
[50:36] >> Yeah, but he's
[50:38] >> That's the electric bike.
[50:40] >> I don't bl [laughter]
[50:43] >> see you later. Okay, we have nine items
[50:47] on the committee discussions and we're
[50:49] going to try to get through them all
[50:51] rather quickly. Uh let's start with
[50:53] vendor fees since Dwayne and Darren are
[50:55] here.
[50:57] >> No, we're not here for that.
[50:58] >> Oh, you're here for parking permits.
[51:00] >> Let me let me jump Let me jump in. I I
[51:02] unless councilwoman Rose has an update.
[51:05] Um we're not I don't I don't think we're
[51:08] prepared. We're still we're still
[51:09] drafting
[51:10] >> vendor fees
[51:11] >> vendor fee policy. Yeah,
[51:13] >> that's correct. Um
[51:15] Councilwoman Zando Dennis and I just met
[51:17] with um John and Mark and um our
[51:20] solicitor and I think we're we're going
[51:24] in the right direction, but expect to
[51:26] see a new draft soon.
[51:28] >> Okay. The only thing I would recommend
[51:30] is that we do it as quickly as possible
[51:32] because we do have some big events
[51:34] coming up between Clam Jam, Garlic Fest,
[51:38] and Bacon Fest. There are three biggest.
[51:40] >> It may not It may not occur. It takes
[51:42] two months to get an ordinance through.
[51:44] >> I realize that, but it's budgetary, so
[51:47] it doesn't take it becomes effective
[51:49] immediately.
[51:51] >> You're right. [laughter]
[51:53] >> Okay. Board of Health denials.
[51:55] >> Thank you, Mayor.
[51:57] Uh Jared or or Vargo, I don't know who
[52:00] wants to.
[52:03] >> All right. There we go.
[52:04] >> So, um and this is
[52:05] >> Jared's here for moral support. Man,
[52:07] you're hurting. [laughter]
[52:10] >> So, I think The issue is that the
[52:14] ordinance as currently written
[52:15] specifically prevents the board from
[52:17] issuing any kind of written decision. So
[52:19] there's no real way to know and Jared
[52:22] can correct me if I'm wrong here why
[52:23] each specific member voted against a
[52:26] particular permit. But I think the board
[52:28] could do a better job of publicizing the
[52:32] actual some of the criteria that the
[52:35] board members are looking at. And some
[52:37] of the things that have to be considered
[52:39] are the availability, how often the
[52:42] person requesting the permit actually
[52:44] has to leave the house. Uh what is the
[52:47] availability of parking generally on the
[52:49] street? In other words, is it a street
[52:50] there's generally open parking? Well,
[52:52] then maybe a designated spot isn't
[52:54] necessary. If the person is not
[52:56] themselves required to leave
[52:58] particularly often because they have
[52:59] other support in the home. In other
[53:01] words, if someone else can and the
[53:02] that's the other thing is what resources
[53:04] do they have in the home to help? If
[53:05] there's someone else who can drive and
[53:07] can drop them off at the front door and
[53:08] then go park, it's less necessary. Uh
[53:11] physical aspects like the number of
[53:14] steps, both the distance from the curb
[53:18] to the street as well as the literal
[53:20] number of steps.
[53:21] >> Um there are some parts of Easton that
[53:23] are hillier than others. There are some
[53:25] houses that sit up higher than others.
[53:27] Uh from my understanding, those are are
[53:29] just some of the types of factors that
[53:31] go into each decision. But because each
[53:34] decision is so individualized and
[53:35] because each commissioner could have a
[53:37] different reason for deciding, there's
[53:39] no real one way to to say why an
[53:42] application may succeed or fail. But I
[53:44] think a better an understanding of those
[53:46] sorts of factors of what the factors
[53:48] that the board's actually looking at
[53:49] does could help people understand in
[53:53] general why a permit might be dismissed
[53:55] even if it's not their specific permit.
[53:58] So Jared, for for you currently, do we list the reasons why an
[54:06] application could be denied or approved?
[54:07] What he just mentioned, do we do we
[54:10] mention that prior to or at the
[54:12] conclusion of a hearing?
[54:14] >> So I the email I originally shot you
[54:17] over with the description and the kind
[54:19] of uh legality of the beginning of the
[54:22] meeting does list pure discretionary
[54:25] um categories, we'll call them. um that
[54:28] the lawyer just went over. Um
[54:32] for each individual, we don't go like
[54:35] once the denial or approval happens, we
[54:37] don't go through that with them during
[54:39] the board meeting.
[54:40] >> But we do let people know ahead of time.
[54:43] >> Yeah.
[54:43] >> And I know your email, but the public
[54:45] didn't see the email. So, but ahead of
[54:47] time, we let them know of reasons what
[54:50] you look at.
[54:51] >> Yeah. We we tell them what we look at.
[54:53] We even let them know board members do
[54:55] survey the neighborhood, right? Um, and
[54:57] then my description, like a perfect
[54:59] example of what he was saying was steps.
[55:02] Um, if they live in a second floor
[55:03] apartment, I list that in addition,
[55:06] right, to the board members so they have
[55:08] that information like, hey, there's 15
[55:10] steps from the first floor to the second
[55:12] floor apartment where they reside. Um,
[55:14] so there are things that are taken into
[55:16] account. Um, we we list them at the
[55:19] meeting. I state them at the meeting.
[55:21] Um, but they're not like designated
[55:23] anywhere like on the application.
[55:27] [snorts]
[55:27] >> Is it possible to to
[55:30] put a disclaimer or something on the
[55:32] application? These are some of the
[55:34] parameters. I think the biggest thing is
[55:35] just lack of communication on any level
[55:38] and people just don't know and and and I
[55:40] think if we could at least make people
[55:42] aware that this is the criteria,
[55:45] each person could have a different
[55:47] reason for denying you and and you know,
[55:49] people just don't know, right? And and I
[55:51] think if we could just at least give
[55:52] that so people have some type of idea
[55:55] what's going on or what the criteria was
[55:57] that they were based it the decision was
[55:58] based on I think that would just help
[56:01] out a lot in regards to communication.
[56:03] Could we put that on just on the initial
[56:05] applications letters on the bottom?
[56:08] >> We can probably look at that application
[56:10] form and see. I mean it'd have to make
[56:12] it clear that it's not an exhaustive
[56:13] list. It's simply a representative
[56:15] example of some reasons why a permit may
[56:17] be granted or denied, but ultimately
[56:19] it's at the discretion of the board
[56:21] members. But there may be some language
[56:22] we could add to the I'll I'll work
[56:24] >> or or at least that it's not a uniform
[56:27] decision, right? So it could be
[56:28] individual and we don't share the
[56:30] individual. So it could be more than one
[56:32] reason.
[56:32] >> Yeah. There's no way to know
[56:34] >> a different reason for every board
[56:35] member. Just, you know, just give them
[56:36] something. I mean they like we don't
[56:38] tell them really anything. It's kind of
[56:40] >> it's hard. I understand it's a difficult
[56:42] situation, but it's given this. But I
[56:45] can I'm gonna I'll talk to J and uh
[56:48] assistant solicister
[56:51] because I know he handles those
[56:52] hearings. So maybe we can take a look at
[56:54] that form and see if there's some
[56:55] improvements can be made there. All
[56:57] right. So I'll uh how about four weeks?
[57:00] Not the next committee. We'll wait two
[57:02] more commit second committee from now
[57:03] and we'll bring that back. Thank you.
[57:07] >> Thank you, Mayor.
[57:08] >> Okay, we'll move on to Minister Pony. We
[57:09] may as well continue with the microphone
[57:11] work for his housing.
[57:12] >> Did you call me mister or minister? It
[57:14] sound like
[57:14] >> mister. Minister.
[57:15] >> Mister.
[57:16] >> I prefer minister.
[57:17] >> No, that's Roger Rogos. [laughter]
[57:20] >> So, I spoke to some of the council
[57:21] members. Um, it's not a whole hell of a
[57:24] lot of discussion. We've always, since I
[57:27] brought this over a year ago, we've
[57:28] always said if if a developer gets any
[57:30] subsidy, any subsidy. Well, it was
[57:32] brought to my attention two weeks ago by
[57:35] our current solicitor that it doesn't
[57:38] read any. It reads city, state. So, all
[57:42] they're doing, if you guys saw the
[57:44] update, they're adding any subsidy. So,
[57:46] state, county,
[57:48] uh, uh, Unity Bank gives a grant.
[57:50] That'll be, you know, that'll that'll trigger it. So, we're just
[57:53] spelling it out that any subsidy
[57:55] developer gets would trigger this bill
[57:57] and they would have to allocate units
[57:59] and things. So, we're just adding
[58:01] additional language to it just to make
[58:03] sure there's no loopholes or anything.
[58:04] So,
[58:04] >> that makes sense.
[58:05] >> Well, I mean, actually, we're taking
[58:06] away, but yes,
[58:08] >> we're adding by taking away just to make
[58:09] it clear that it's not limited that tax
[58:11] incentives are not limited to city or
[58:12] state tax incentives. I think it came up
[58:14] in the context apparently there is
[58:17] >> there are historic tax credits, but
[58:18] there are both separate federal and
[58:20] state historic tax credits and federal
[58:23] tax credits would not
[58:24] >> county and county
[58:25] >> Yeah. or county tax credits would not
[58:27] have fallen. So, by removing the word
[58:28] city or state from the from the statute,
[58:31] it should rectify that problem. So, I
[58:33] don't know if it's on I don't think
[58:34] >> it's on tomorrow.
[58:35] >> I didn't know if it was on tomorrow's
[58:36] agenda, but yeah, then we're good.
[58:38] >> Okay. What about hotels?
[58:40] >> Dwayne,
[58:44] » hotel mot.
[58:52] » All right. where we left off uh at the
[58:54] last committee meeting um was
[58:56] councilwoman uh Julie Sando Dennis uh
[58:59] wanted the definition for what uh a
[59:01] regulated rental unit was. I shared that
[59:04] today. I don't know if everybody was
[59:05] able to read it or had a chance to. I
[59:08] emailed it to everyone. Um so what we're
[59:11] doing is we're so the hotel itself is
[59:13] being caught under that verbiage as
[59:16] well. it was just at some point put in
[59:18] the exempt ones that aren't considered
[59:21] rental units. So, we're taking that out
[59:24] and then um so that'll now fall under
[59:27] the rental program
[59:30] with the bed and breakfast that was
[59:31] brought up. Um so, it is an owner
[59:34] occupied and there is only one in the
[59:38] city. I mean, we could amend it to take
[59:41] that out to make it a registered rental.
[59:43] To me, I I don't think it would hurt to
[59:46] leave it exempt because it's owner
[59:47] occupied. The owner does live there when
[59:50] tenants come in or well when transient
[59:52] guests come in. Um but I mean I'll leave
[59:54] that up to your discretion or
[59:56] >> Well, well, you got to make sure I would
[59:57] be in favor of that if if we're for sure
[1:00:00] that is a owner occupied. The problem is
[1:00:03] they they'll rent out both places and
[1:00:04] they'll go find a place sell the place
[1:00:06] because Belum is having that problem
[1:00:08] right now.
[1:00:08] >> Yeah. So, we only have one that's
[1:00:11] >> the one on Wood Avenue.
[1:00:13] >> No, there's no there's no better.
[1:00:15] >> No, no, no. There's there's only one.
[1:00:17] It's at 131 Catel Street.
[1:00:19] >> Are we sure? Mayor might know of two
[1:00:21] more.
[1:00:22] >> Then I went on a website.
[1:00:24] >> Then they're not legal. Are they Are you
[1:00:25] talking about Airbnbs?
[1:00:26] >> Yeah.
[1:00:27] >> No, we're not.
[1:00:28] >> So, short-term rentals are something
[1:00:30] completely different than a bed and
[1:00:32] breakfastdeed
[1:00:32] >> as far as zoning is required. So, so
[1:00:35] short-term rentals are under the rental
[1:00:38] program,
[1:00:38] >> but the one on center square above
[1:00:40] Bigers came to
[1:00:41] >> they got denied
[1:00:42] >> zoning. They got Oh, they got denied.
[1:00:44] That's right.
[1:00:44] >> So, here here's my concern. How many
[1:00:46] beds does does the bed and breakfast
[1:00:48] have that we're talking about?
[1:00:50] >> How many rooms?
[1:00:50] >> Just three bedrooms.
[1:00:51] >> Just three.
[1:00:52] >> Yeah.
[1:00:53] >> And there were there was conditions of
[1:00:55] approval for that
[1:00:56] >> through zoning when they got their
[1:00:57] approval. I I I just think if we start
[1:01:00] pulling out who does and who doesn't, it
[1:01:02] can get tricky later and people can find
[1:01:04] ways to circumvent. Personally, since
[1:01:06] we're talking about the the the
[1:01:09] safety of the visitors as well as our
[1:01:11] first responders, I'd like to see them
[1:01:13] all included in the the same inspections
[1:01:15] when it comes to fire. That's my
[1:01:17] opinion.
[1:01:17] >> I would too. I agree with that.
[1:01:21] >> All right. So,
[1:01:23] as far as uh the 45618
[1:01:27] uh A2, we will get rid of well, we'll
[1:01:30] remove section C as well for the bed and
[1:01:32] breakfast and then they'll fall under
[1:01:33] the rental program.
[1:01:34] >> Okay.
[1:01:35] >> So, the hotel the hotel will be out and
[1:01:37] the bed and breakfast will be out and
[1:01:38] fall under the rental uh program.
[1:01:40] >> Dwayne, can you provide an update to to
[1:01:42] Karen because we're going to update it
[1:01:44] for tomorrow's night's meeting.
[1:01:45] >> Absolutely.
[1:01:45] >> Introduce it.
[1:01:46] >> Great introduction.
[1:01:47] >> Yep. Wayne, can I uh ask you just to go
[1:01:50] back a little bit to um it's uh 2 A.
[1:01:57] So it's A2A 45618
[1:02:01] A2A
[1:02:03] or B rather A2B. So essentially you were you're going to uh take away
[1:02:11] from the carve out hotels and motel,
[1:02:14] right?
[1:02:16] Um
[1:02:19] the thing is
[1:02:22] up here
[1:02:23] so a hotel in a motel is uh is part is a regulated rental unit based on our
[1:02:31] um
[1:02:32] definitions.
[1:02:34] So here you say for a rooming house,
[1:02:37] this is in 45618A1.
[1:02:40] For a rooming house, a single license is
[1:02:42] allowed for all units within a rooming
[1:02:44] house building. Shouldn't that also be
[1:02:46] for a hotel and motel? I mean, you're
[1:02:49] not asking a hotel or motel to get a
[1:02:51] license for each individual room.
[1:02:53] >> Wait, what section you in again? Just so
[1:02:54] I'm following 561 18 A2B
[1:02:58] >> A2B.
[1:03:00] So, hotels, motel used for transit
[1:03:02] visitors, but without units.
[1:03:04] >> It's 45 5618 A1.
[1:03:09] >> Yep.
[1:03:10] >> All right.
[1:03:12] >> So, it starts with a residential rental
[1:03:14] license shall be required for all
[1:03:15] regulated rental units.
[1:03:17] >> Yep.
[1:03:18] >> A regulated rental unit includes a hotel
[1:03:20] and a motel.
[1:03:21] >> That's correct.
[1:03:22] >> Okay. Then you say in the same
[1:03:24] paragraph, for a rooming house, a single
[1:03:27] license is allowed for all units within
[1:03:29] a rooming house building. In other
[1:03:31] words, you only need one license.
[1:03:33] Wouldn't that also be true for hotels
[1:03:35] and motel where you only need one
[1:03:37] license?
[1:03:39] >> Well, you're I guess you're kind of
[1:03:41] splitting hairs because a hotel is is a
[1:03:44] different use than a rooming house.
[1:03:48] >> No, it's just the license requirement.
[1:03:49] In other words, does a hotel owner have
[1:03:51] to go and get a license for every single
[1:03:53] different unit in the hotel? It the way
[1:03:56] it reads now, they do.
[1:03:59] >> I I would say the way it reads, yes,
[1:04:01] because there's it's two different uses.
[1:04:03] A rooming house is different than what a
[1:04:05] hotel is as far as the use.
[1:04:08] >> Oh, I see. I see you're saying the unit
[1:04:10] or shall be organ for a room.
[1:04:14] Well, why even have that that uh
[1:04:17] sentence
[1:04:20] like
[1:04:22] no
[1:04:25] I think you're missing the point. It's
[1:04:26] not two separate uses. So a residential
[1:04:29] rental license shall be required for all
[1:04:31] regulated rental units. That includes
[1:04:35] SRO's, hotels, motel. Okay.
[1:04:38] >> And then
[1:04:41] for all regulated rental units. So that
[1:04:45] includes a motel. And here you're saying
[1:04:47] for a rooming house only a single
[1:04:49] license is allowed for all units within
[1:04:52] a rooming house building. So for a
[1:04:54] motel, isn't it just a single house is a
[1:04:58] single license is allowed?
[1:05:00] >> Well, it's more or less a commercial
[1:05:02] building, right? So what what I'm saying
[1:05:04] is and and maybe we're splitting hairs
[1:05:06] on what it is. I'm looking at it as the
[1:05:09] use of the building itself. The use of a
[1:05:12] building for a hotel is completely
[1:05:14] different than the use of a rooming
[1:05:17] house, right? You're having single rooms
[1:05:20] that are, you know, not as large as
[1:05:23] hotel rooms because, you know, hotel
[1:05:24] rooms are a lot larger. Roaming houses
[1:05:26] don't have a shower within their unit.
[1:05:28] It's usually a communal shower within
[1:05:31] the house. Mhm.
[1:05:32] >> Um,
[1:05:33] >> but doesn't a motel does a motel then
[1:05:39] need to get more than a single license
[1:05:41] for all its units?
[1:05:45] » I would say yes.
[1:05:47] >> So if a motel has a 100 units and it it
[1:05:50] has to get a 100 licenses.
[1:05:51] >> Yes. It's just like the marquee has 100
[1:05:53] units. It would have to get 100 rental
[1:05:55] licenses.
[1:05:56] >> Okay. For
[1:05:56] >> each unit.
[1:05:58] >> That's how Oh, I didn't know that's how
[1:05:59] you
[1:06:01] >> Okay.
[1:06:03] Got it. Hey, then it makes perfect sense
[1:06:05] then.
[1:06:06] >> Thank you.
[1:06:08] >> If there's no other questions or
[1:06:09] comments, it'll be on the agenda
[1:06:10] tomorrow for introduction and Dwayne
[1:06:12] will update and get the camera
[1:06:14] >> pulling that out.
[1:06:16] >> Okay. Law lease agreement renewal.
[1:06:20] >> We wanted to get information to set the
[1:06:23] um
[1:06:23] >> I have a slight I have a slight there's
[1:06:25] no
[1:06:26] >> county didn't give us anything.
[1:06:28] >> Mayor, we did receive some
[1:06:29] correspondence uh today. It was late
[1:06:31] today, but um I have to verify we we got
[1:06:35] some expenses, but looking at that uh
[1:06:39] report um I have more questions than I
[1:06:42] do anything else. Um so I we we got this
[1:06:47] late today and I can't comment on like
[1:06:49] what kind of information we got there.
[1:06:51] >> So um
[1:06:52] >> table it for two weeks.
[1:06:53] >> Table it. Well, we do have to
[1:06:56] >> notify them
[1:06:57] >> that the tenant should be notified
[1:07:00] by August 1st. So, there should be a
[1:07:03] decision tomorrow made as to whether to
[1:07:08] I mean, the option would be to renew the
[1:07:10] lease at the current rent and then wait
[1:07:12] a year and see where we're at and have
[1:07:13] one once we have just the idea of
[1:07:17] raising the rent during the lease is
[1:07:18] tricky. Probably okay, but I don't like
[1:07:21] probably. The problem though is if if
[1:07:23] everybody here discussed what the cost
[1:07:26] is to maintain and everything, we don't
[1:07:27] have that information. How can we
[1:07:28] >> We do not have that information. So,
[1:07:30] it's a question of do we do we choose to
[1:07:33] change the rent without that information
[1:07:35] tomorrow or do you choose to leave the
[1:07:37] rent the same without that information?
[1:07:39] >> I I I can try to provide a an update
[1:07:41] tomorrow. So, like I said, I did not get
[1:07:43] a chance to um it came in late in the
[1:07:45] day and I I really have to sit down and
[1:07:47] re and review it with um not only John
[1:07:50] Kingsley, but call um the attorney um
[1:07:55] and just question some of the reports.
[1:07:57] It's just not that clear.
[1:07:58] >> I mean, there there's there's thousand
[1:08:00] >> I think we should raise it. Mrs. Sos is
[1:08:03] not going to be happy regardless. So, I
[1:08:05] think we should just let her know that
[1:08:06] her rent's being increased. I mean, I
[1:08:09] don't care if it's to $250,
[1:08:12] $14 a month.
[1:08:13] >> So, let me ask let me ask
[1:08:15] >> Have you re Sorry. Have you reached out
[1:08:16] to Miss Host to get her income or has
[1:08:19] anybody Sorry.
[1:08:20] >> Verify it.
[1:08:21] >> No, I'm not aware of of if anyone has
[1:08:24] done that or not. I would I I would ask
[1:08:28] I will ask John Kingsley um since he was
[1:08:30] the one who was the uh point person on
[1:08:33] this project. Um but so tomorrow we can
[1:08:37] regroup and try to get um just some
[1:08:40] clarity. There is a report that's
[1:08:42] showing and again I I got to look at I
[1:08:44] got to look at the in more detail that's
[1:08:47] showing like showing at least a few
[1:08:49] thousand dollars in expenses. Now my
[1:08:52] question going back to you anyway is
[1:08:55] regarding the market value. It doesn't
[1:08:57] sound like you want to go up to market
[1:08:59] value but you do want to increase the uh
[1:09:01] rental rate because there's expenses. Okay. So, it's
[1:09:05] not based on
[1:09:05] >> it' be at least 15% of her income.
[1:09:07] >> Gotcha.
[1:09:08] >> I agree.
[1:09:09] >> Yeah. I
[1:09:10] >> I think if we set it a percentage of her
[1:09:12] income and you know it would account for
[1:09:13] it every single year.
[1:09:14] >> Yeah. I'm not aware that we were able to
[1:09:16] get any any information.
[1:09:17] >> I I will get you her income by the
[1:09:19] morning.
[1:09:20] >> That's fine. Like we're meeting we have
[1:09:22] a solicitor's meeting at 9:00 a.m. So
[1:09:24] >> I'll get it for you tonight if we get
[1:09:25] out of here in time or tomorrow.
[1:09:27] >> They'll get it to me by nine o'clock and
[1:09:28] that's fine.
[1:09:30] I'm not [laughter]
[1:09:31] >> Oh, no way.
[1:09:33] >> Every day.
[1:09:34] >> Can we talk about what percentage of our
[1:09:36] income we would increase it to?
[1:09:38] >> Sure.
[1:09:39] >> I mean, because Mayor, you mentioned
[1:09:41] 15%. I mean, that's awfully It's hard to tell a constituent. Yeah, we're
[1:09:46] giving this incredible deal to this one
[1:09:49] individual.
[1:09:51] >> But my my concern,
[1:09:52] >> why can't it be 30? Like,
[1:09:54] >> so the 30 we're doing on my bill, which
[1:09:56] is the workforce housing, right? So, the
[1:09:58] middle class
[1:09:59] I can't guarantee until I get the
[1:10:01] number, but I'm almost positive she's
[1:10:03] significantly lower than that on
[1:10:06] probably just whatever social security
[1:10:08] gives her.
[1:10:09] >> She would fall in 30%. Yeah, she would
[1:10:11] fall in 30%.
[1:10:12] >> Based based on a very rough like uh
[1:10:16] internet analysis,
[1:10:19] like a widow living alone who's let's
[1:10:22] say never worked, and I I don't know
[1:10:23] whether she's worked or not, who had a
[1:10:25] laborer for a husband.
[1:10:28] um they would make
[1:10:30] between $1,800 to $2,400 a month
[1:10:34] >> income.
[1:10:35] >> So if we took 25% of 1800s, that would
[1:10:39] make $450
[1:10:41] in rent, which would be a 99.1%
[1:10:44] increase, almost 100% increase or
[1:10:45] doubling it. I
[1:10:47] >> I think the question though is what what
[1:10:50] exactly is that increase going to do for
[1:10:52] us without knowing the numbers of what's
[1:10:55] happening there? And I I don't think and
[1:10:57] I don't think unless you go market rate,
[1:10:58] you're going to make a significant
[1:11:00] difference for us with any increase.
[1:11:02] >> And and I know to your point,
[1:11:03] Councilwoman, about getting such a sweet
[1:11:06] deal.
[1:11:06] >> It's a perception issue,
[1:11:08] >> but the woman's been there for 50 years.
[1:11:10] I mean, to to we get to to to raise her
[1:11:13] rent 100%. That's not going to help us
[1:11:14] with anything.
[1:11:15] >> But those those units weren't meant to
[1:11:17] have people there 50 years. They were
[1:11:19] meant to be there and to move on. I
[1:11:22] don't disagree, but that's a a systemic
[1:11:24] problem for over 50 years by the city,
[1:11:26] not from her.
[1:11:27] >> I think a percentage of income is fair,
[1:11:29] but you know, meanwhile, in a few
[1:11:31] months, it not soon we're going to be
[1:11:33] sitting down with the budget looking for
[1:11:34] two pennies to to to put together and
[1:11:37] meanwhile we're incurring costs on a
[1:11:40] unit.
[1:11:40] >> We have to look at that.
[1:11:42] >> Yeah. But but and that's why I mentioned
[1:11:43] prior of adjusting the lease to say, you
[1:11:47] know, uh uh you want a sidewalk replaced
[1:11:49] just because you don't like it. Well,
[1:11:51] that's your responsibility. We're not
[1:11:52] paying for that. And we haven't explored
[1:11:55] looking at what we're putting out. So, I
[1:11:57] think we need to adjust the lease to say
[1:11:59] we can't just come and repair things
[1:12:01] just cuz you don't like it.
[1:12:02] >> Sure. I mean, there's a lot of things in
[1:12:03] my own home I'd like to repair as well.
[1:12:05] But, you know, there if it's not a code
[1:12:07] violation or a safety violation, it
[1:12:09] doesn't always get done. You do it when
[1:12:11] you can afford to do it.
[1:12:12] >> So, I think we should update the Lisa at
[1:12:13] least to say that so we're not
[1:12:14] hemorrhaging the money as we look like
[1:12:16] we've been doing. Um, but I'll get her
[1:12:19] salary. I I'll talk to her today and try
[1:12:21] to get documentation and then give it to
[1:12:23] you guys.
[1:12:23] >> Good. Come with me.
[1:12:25] >> Suggestion is to um not increase the
[1:12:28] rent but have her pay for maintenance.
[1:12:30] >> I'm saying I think we talked about it
[1:12:32] before. We should we should consider it
[1:12:33] if it's something that is our
[1:12:35] responsibility.
[1:12:36] >> Tenant pay for maintenance is that they
[1:12:38] don't do it.
[1:12:39] >> But what I'm saying
[1:12:40] >> we get back as a building that is
[1:12:42] >> deplorable that requires $40,000 worth
[1:12:45] of improvements. What I'm saying is
[1:12:47] looking at it like other landlords,
[1:12:49] right? If if the roof is leaking because
[1:12:51] the shingles are old, that's our
[1:12:53] responsibility, right? If she clogs the
[1:12:56] sink with hair or something else, that's
[1:12:58] her responsibility. If she wants the
[1:13:00] sidewalk done because she doesn't like
[1:13:01] the way it looks anymore, that's your
[1:13:02] responsibility, right? Like I think we
[1:13:04] need to look at things like that and a
[1:13:06] small percentage based on her her
[1:13:09] income. My my concern is I just don't
[1:13:11] want to exceed
[1:13:13] >> her increase from social security and
[1:13:14] then we put her out in the street. I
[1:13:16] mean that's why we need that's an
[1:13:17] important point to be able I think you
[1:13:20] know other affordable housing has its
[1:13:22] percentages as well that they look at
[1:13:23] income
[1:13:24] >> it's all built in though
[1:13:26] >> it it you know if you're if you find out
[1:13:29] that there's more coming in there could
[1:13:31] be p there could be things we don't know
[1:13:32] about it's not fair to other the other
[1:13:35] taxpayers to burden that call
[1:13:37] >> and updates. I think we really got to
[1:13:39] like take a good look at that lease and
[1:13:41] see what that lease is saying because if
[1:13:43] she's under housing authority, is that
[1:13:45] who's holding the
[1:13:46] >> No, she's not. She's under the city of
[1:13:48] East.
[1:13:49] >> Okay. So, we still need to look at that
[1:13:50] lease so that we can make sure that
[1:13:53] going forward that we're
[1:13:56] not displacing her. I'm concerned about
[1:13:58] displacing.
[1:13:59] >> Right. But here's the problem with that,
[1:14:00] Councilman. We mentioned that two weeks
[1:14:02] ago
[1:14:02] >> and now tomorrow's our last voting
[1:14:04] meeting and it needs to be done for
[1:14:05] August 1. So, what do we do? We didn't
[1:14:07] do what we were.
[1:14:08] >> That's what I'm saying. Um, council,
[1:14:10] >> no. Lei County didn't get back to John.
[1:14:12] tried to get the information. Lei
[1:14:14] County didn't get back to him.
[1:14:15] >> They're the only one who hold it.
[1:14:16] >> At minimum, it seems like she's getting
[1:14:18] $1,800.
[1:14:19] >> They got back they got back to us late today. Both myself and Mike were on
[1:14:23] the email, but I mean, this is late. And
[1:14:26] >> well, I'll email what I get tonight to
[1:14:28] all the council and to the
[1:14:29] administration, and then we can
[1:14:30] tomorrow. We'll just have to
[1:14:32] >> discuss it.
[1:14:33] and do something tomorrow. I
[1:14:34] mean, it's our last day to vote on it
[1:14:35] before the renewal.
[1:14:37] >> I think we should vote on it tomorrow
[1:14:38] night. And
[1:14:40] >> no matter what you raise it to, I I'm
[1:14:42] sure she will be at the next meeting.
[1:14:44] >> Well, I mean, that's fine. But
[1:14:45] >> that's fine.
[1:14:46] >> As long as we're doing it fair. I mean,
[1:14:48] we got, you know, as long as we're doing
[1:14:49] it fair. Nobody's going to I've learned
[1:14:51] over the last three years, no matter
[1:14:52] what you do, you're going to piss
[1:14:53] everybody off. So,
[1:14:55] >> what it is
[1:14:56] >> as an individual, you can't imagine that
[1:14:58] your rate of
[1:15:00] goes up.
[1:15:01] >> That never goes up. I mean it just
[1:15:03] >> don't happen. It does. So
[1:15:06] >> you get probably get cooler.
[1:15:07] >> Mike, remind us on the lease what's in
[1:15:10] there for increases on the lease.
[1:15:12] >> So there's no limit on the increase.
[1:15:13] >> No limit, but
[1:15:14] >> you can increase the the but
[1:15:17] >> So it doesn't say income or anything.
[1:15:18] It's whatever we feel like doing.
[1:15:20] >> The rent can be whatever number the city
[1:15:22] wants it to be. But anything else
[1:15:24] requires consent of the property owner.
[1:15:27] There is some room in for interpretation
[1:15:29] in what exact level of maintenance is
[1:15:31] required,
[1:15:32] >> right?
[1:15:32] >> I think it's necessary maintenance. So,
[1:15:34] I think there is
[1:15:36] there's a certain definition of what's
[1:15:38] necessary versus what somebody might
[1:15:40] like to have.
[1:15:41] >> Could you put that together for
[1:15:42] tomorrow?
[1:15:43] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[1:15:43] >> Of of your recommendation because of
[1:15:46] >> Yeah. of the repairs.
[1:15:50] » Well, we know what's going to happen to
[1:15:51] that property once living in it.
[1:15:54] >> And I mean, we're looking at we're
[1:15:55] looking at third. we're going to sell it
[1:15:56] and we're looking at we talk about
[1:15:58] 30,000 right because that's what like
[1:16:00] the workforce housing is like 30 up to
[1:16:02] 70 or whatever but if she's making 18 a
[1:16:04] month she 30% if she's looking at 18 a
[1:16:07] month she's making like 21 cents a year
[1:16:09] so that wouldn't put her in workforce
[1:16:10] that would put her at low income what
[1:16:12] the percentage is for low income
[1:16:13] >> I think it makes the most sense to
[1:16:15] charge her a percentage of her income
[1:16:17] lock it in every year she'll get an
[1:16:20] increase in you know her social security
[1:16:21] or whatever
[1:16:22] >> but the question is what's the
[1:16:23] percentage
[1:16:24] >> well then we got to figure that Right.
[1:16:26] That's what we have to do. And then
[1:16:28] >> low income
[1:16:28] >> then it'll go up automatically every
[1:16:30] year
[1:16:30] >> because 216 is considered low income.
[1:16:32] >> Just generally
[1:16:33] >> 25%.
[1:16:35] >> Yeah. That's general thumb, but I don't
[1:16:37] know if that's the federal rule.
[1:16:38] >> Yeah. I I don't know.
[1:16:40] >> It's always 30%. And it really doesn't
[1:16:42] really increase the state level. They
[1:16:45] >> 30%.
[1:16:45] >> Yeah.
[1:16:46] >> For low income people.
[1:16:47] >> Yeah.
[1:16:48] >> Well, for the federal
[1:16:50] Kenny worked with it for 20 years, so he
[1:16:52] knows.
[1:16:52] >> Does she pay for her own utilities?
[1:16:55] Does
[1:16:55] >> I believe so, but
[1:16:58] >> yeah, I don't see that in the lease, so
[1:17:00] I'm assuming she must be.
[1:17:01] >> Yeah. So, just I mean, be aware though
[1:17:03] that and I and I think it's fine, but
[1:17:06] let's just say she makes $1,800
[1:17:10] and if we were to get 25%, we'd
[1:17:12] effectively be doubling her rent, which
[1:17:14] I think is fair. That's only um $450 a
[1:17:19] month.
[1:17:22] >> She just can't go to bangle no more. God
[1:17:24] bless her.
[1:17:28] » So, just a quick thing, market rate
[1:17:30] departments. Many landlords raise rent 3
[1:17:32] to 5% per year to keep up with
[1:17:34] inflation, operating costs, whatever. In
[1:17:36] a tight housing market, 5 to 10%
[1:17:38] increase. Affordable uh HUD public
[1:17:40] housing or housing vouchers. Rent is
[1:17:43] generally based on the tenants income.
[1:17:44] Most tenants pay about 30% of their
[1:17:47] adjusted monthly income towards rent
[1:17:50] in utilities and things included. So,
[1:17:53] we'll take her yearly or her monthly
[1:17:56] salary and and look at 30% of that.
[1:17:59] >> Yeah.
[1:17:59] >> And see what that comes with. The
[1:18:01] reality is never $140, which is more
[1:18:04] than twice what she's paying now.
[1:18:06] >> At that point, might want to look at a
[1:18:08] step up per year. That's a big
[1:18:10] >> That's a big increase at one time. Yeah,
[1:18:11] absolutely.
[1:18:12] >> Well, it's double if we just go to 25%.
[1:18:16] If her income's 1,800,
[1:18:18] >> I would suggest that we make a lease, a
[1:18:20] new lease, Mike, a new lease that says
[1:18:23] that what it's going to go up to and
[1:18:25] maybe maybe she will move out, move in
[1:18:28] with her sister.
[1:18:31] >> She's watching, man.
[1:18:32] >> No, there is no [laughter]
[1:18:34] >> any rent increase doesn't go in effect
[1:18:36] for two months anyway. So, there'd be a
[1:18:37] two month there'd be a two-month lag
[1:18:40] before there's a rent increase any
[1:18:41] before the rent increase becomes
[1:18:42] effective. So, I'll get council her
[1:18:46] yearly income or monthly income.
[1:18:48] >> You going to knock on her door?
[1:18:49] >> I am.
[1:18:50] I'm going to tell her Sal Panto
[1:18:52] sent me. And then and I'm going to give
[1:18:54] her my card with his cell phone number.
[1:18:57] >> Go for it.
[1:18:57] >> And in the meantime,
[1:18:58] >> I'll bring you.
[1:19:00] >> In the meantime, you'll look at um
[1:19:02] repairs and maintenance and then we'll
[1:19:04] just have to
[1:19:05] >> just a quick question from the
[1:19:06] solicitor. Um, is is there an anti- um
[1:19:10] sub lease provision in the contract?
[1:19:13] >> I believe there is. I don't have the
[1:19:14] lease in front of me at this moment.
[1:19:15] >> Yeah, because I mean we don't want her
[1:19:17] moving out
[1:19:18] >> and subleasasing it and I'm charging
[1:19:20] $2,000.
[1:19:21] >> I'm almost certain there's not there's
[1:19:23] no,
[1:19:23] >> but I will double check to make sure.
[1:19:25] >> All right.
[1:19:26] We
[1:19:28] >> Yeah.
[1:19:29] >> Thank you.
[1:19:30] >> Okay. Uh, the next two deal with DCD and
[1:19:33] the chairman of the DCD committee does
[1:19:35] not know what they're about, so Hold off
[1:19:37] whether Mr. Kingsy can explain them to
[1:19:39] us or I'll get information on them
[1:19:41] tomorrow.
[1:19:41] >> Mayor, I think just for sake, I think
[1:19:44] some of our directors still don't
[1:19:46] understand the whole concept of
[1:19:48] committee meeting and council meeting.
[1:19:49] So, they're bringing like everything.
[1:19:51] They're applying for a grant, right?
[1:19:53] They're just applying for grants, but I
[1:19:54] think just they're crossing all their
[1:19:56] tees and dotting on their eyes. So, they
[1:19:57] wanted to let us know what they're
[1:19:59] applying for. So, I'll get that
[1:20:00] information out to everyone tonight.
[1:20:02] >> But that's really what it is. It's I
[1:20:04] don't see us voting no on on applying
[1:20:06] for a grant. So,
[1:20:08] >> right.
[1:20:08] >> Um
[1:20:09] >> the last item is resolution appointing
[1:20:11] and reappointing people to authorities
[1:20:13] board. You
[1:20:14] >> skip one.
[1:20:16] >> Wait, six, seven, eight.
[1:20:17] >> Oh, open go software implementation.
[1:20:20] >> Eight. Six and seven are seven and
[1:20:21] eight.
[1:20:22] >> So, mayor's going to do eight.
[1:20:23] >> Oh, we
[1:20:25] >> six and seven are the grants for DCD
[1:20:27] that
[1:20:28] >> Oh, can I just can I please raise an
[1:20:31] issue about seven? the resolution
[1:20:34] authorizing East DCD to apply for a
[1:20:36] hotel tax grant. That grant is to go
[1:20:41] towards um oh I had it up shoot the
[1:20:46] infamous bugler
[1:20:48] and I don't think we want to say the
[1:20:51] infamous bugler in our ordinance. So
[1:20:54] infamous means uh somebody well known
[1:20:58] for some bad quality or deed such as an
[1:21:01] infamous war criminal
[1:21:04] >> and people on uh AI ask is infamous
[1:21:06] positive or negative and it is strictly
[1:21:09] negative. It means well known for a bad
[1:21:11] reason such as a scandalous act, crime
[1:21:14] or poor poor reputation according to
[1:21:17] Mariam Webster.
[1:21:18] >> And we don't know what the bugler did.
[1:21:19] Well, who
[1:21:21] wrote it?
[1:21:21] >> Who woke him up?
[1:21:22] >> Because it's an or it's a resolution. I
[1:21:26] think we should change the term
[1:21:27] infamous.
[1:21:30] >> Something 1861.
[1:21:32] [laughter]
[1:21:33] >> Yeah.
[1:21:33] >> Something.
[1:21:34] >> He woke everybody up and
[1:21:35] >> scandalous.
[1:21:36] >> Yes. Less scandic
[1:21:37] >> and more.
[1:21:38] >> Yeah. Iconic's fine. That's good.
[1:21:41] >> The iconic view or it's iconic.
[1:21:44] >> So, we're good with the plan for the
[1:21:46] brand, but we just want to change that
[1:21:47] in the wording. change that in the
[1:21:49] wording if unless you want to keep it.
[1:21:52] [laughter]
[1:21:53] >> I don't want to keep it. You're right. I
[1:21:54] agree. I know.
[1:21:55] >> All right, mayor. Number eight is yours.
[1:21:57] >> Well, we're going to number eight is
[1:21:59] resolution for open gov software
[1:22:01] implementation.
[1:22:02] >> He's going to be giving a pretty
[1:22:03] >> good grant for that. Correct.
[1:22:05] >> Right. So, um council already approved
[1:22:08] um the acquisition for the um new
[1:22:11] software. There's a cost to the
[1:22:13] software. Uh we are, as the mayor said,
[1:22:15] we applied for a grant. Um we confident
[1:22:19] in getting that grant. It's an annual
[1:22:20] grant. Um the uh this the implementation
[1:22:25] cost I think it was about 400,000.
[1:22:29] Um the uh a letters went out to various
[1:22:34] banks. There was an RFP unvest
[1:22:37] came back their rate was at 4%. It was
[1:22:40] about at least one point if not greater
[1:22:42] than everyone else.
[1:22:43] >> Mark said he'd be giving that if anybody
[1:22:45] has any questions he'd be willing to
[1:22:47] answer them tomorrow.
[1:22:49] the implementation cost is super high
[1:22:51] like is there
[1:22:52] >> a reason for that
[1:22:54] >> because we're already working with the
[1:22:55] software already
[1:22:57] my understanding for Mark so we're just
[1:22:59] kind of
[1:22:59] >> yeah no
[1:23:00] >> stuck with that
[1:23:02] >> there's well I mean it's a it's an
[1:23:05] enterprise level software and it
[1:23:07] includes not only the finance piece but
[1:23:11] it also includes the tax pieces as well
[1:23:14] >> but it's not a um
[1:23:17] In the scope in the scope of work, there
[1:23:19] were an estimated amount of hours that
[1:23:21] were put in there.
[1:23:22] >> So, it's based on hours.
[1:23:23] >> Yeah.
[1:23:27] » Okay. And appointments to and
[1:23:29] reappoints. There are three appointments
[1:23:31] up for um one is Linda Thomas, my wife
[1:23:34] Pam, and Michelle Volcano Hall. They're
[1:23:37] the three for zoning. And Bob McDonald,
[1:23:40] who is back here in a black shirt, is
[1:23:43] being appointed to the um planning
[1:23:45] commission. Oh, good.
[1:23:46] >> Congratulations.
[1:23:50] >> All right. Mayor,
[1:23:51] >> I have a question, mayor, on on the
[1:23:52] zoning hearing board terms. Um, they all
[1:23:56] expire on different years. I'm just
[1:23:59] curious why that is.
[1:24:00] >> The alternative, I think.
[1:24:01] >> Yeah. They all
[1:24:02] >> 2930.
[1:24:05] >> It says that you
[1:24:07] >> stagger all your votes
[1:24:10] >> so you don't put all new board members
[1:24:12] on at the same time.
[1:24:13] >> Gotcha.
[1:24:14] Mayor, I have a question um about the
[1:24:16] zoning hearing board reappoint of one
[1:24:19] member who um whose absentee record
[1:24:22] seems to be pretty significant.
[1:24:24] >> It is.
[1:24:26] >> And so I I would like you to know that,
[1:24:28] you know, I'd like to see a more active
[1:24:31] um
[1:24:32] >> commissioner on that board.
[1:24:36] Mayor to that point when we passed the
[1:24:38] attendance policy towards the end of
[1:24:39] last year before the new council came on
[1:24:42] >> we were applying that to the ABCs as
[1:24:44] well right corre
[1:24:47] so are we over
[1:24:48] >> three per year
[1:24:49] >> so are we generous I think
[1:24:51] >> are we overseeing that to to so we know
[1:24:54] who's in violation of the or okay
[1:24:56] >> so do we have those numbers the
[1:24:58] >> I don't I'd like to see that
[1:25:01] >> so just for the new council
[1:25:03] >> I don't think the zoning board has a
[1:25:05] secretary
[1:25:06] I think that's the problem. Planning
[1:25:08] Commission has a secretary who goes to
[1:25:10] every meeting. Uh I'll have to ask
[1:25:13] Dwayne. Dwayne's at every zoning board
[1:25:15] meeting
[1:25:15] >> or we could ask a solicitor just to take
[1:25:17] attendance. So for the new council
[1:25:18] members, we passed a uh attendance
[1:25:21] ordinance. Um a special person helped us
[1:25:24] come up with that, gave us the reason.
[1:25:26] So and and we put it so so uh every
[1:25:29] after three attendances you could be,
[1:25:32] you know, removed from the ABCs, not
[1:25:34] from council obviously. And at the end
[1:25:35] of the year, council announces Karen
[1:25:38] announces what council members how many
[1:25:40] meetings they miss throughout the year
[1:25:41] and kind of like uh uh embarrassment
[1:25:45] almost if you miss a whole lot of
[1:25:46] meetings, unexcused meetings. So, if we
[1:25:49] can start getting to make sure that the
[1:25:50] ABCs are taking attendance, that way
[1:25:53] it's it's easier to honor the ordinance.
[1:25:57] >> Okay.
[1:25:57] >> Well, I mean, can we are we voting on
[1:26:01] these as a whole or can we make
[1:26:04] individually. Individually, you can
[1:26:06] vote.
[1:26:06] >> No, you can vote in
[1:26:08] >> saying if there was if they had three
[1:26:10] absences, then they're gone.
[1:26:12] >> Yes,
[1:26:12] >> we have the right to say you're you're
[1:26:14] gone. You're getting
[1:26:15] >> The problem is zoning board is really
[1:26:17] critical because it's a quasi judicial
[1:26:20] board and if there's only four there,
[1:26:23] which most of the time there are, it
[1:26:26] becomes a two two tie, they get they're
[1:26:28] guaranteed approval.
[1:26:30] denial rather
[1:26:32] >> at times at at times we haven't even had
[1:26:34] a quorum
[1:26:35] >> I know
[1:26:36] >> which is a big problem
[1:26:38] >> so the reappoints will be
[1:26:39] >> well the only time you didn't have a
[1:26:40] corum was when my wife and I were away
[1:26:43] >> whatever
[1:26:44] >> I mean that was a planned absence there
[1:26:46] were so many other people missing that
[1:26:47] Mikeella had to run the meeting
[1:26:51] I remember
[1:26:52] >> with agreement from all parties involved
[1:26:55] >> yeah well if anybody has any suggestions
[1:26:57] for who they want to put on the boards
[1:26:58] I'm having a hard time because people
[1:27:00] don't want them to serve on the boards
[1:27:01] anymore.
[1:27:03] Used to be an honor to serve on the
[1:27:04] board. Now
[1:27:05] >> they don't want to.
[1:27:08] They don't give the time.
[1:27:11] >> Well, thank you, Rob.
[1:27:13] >> We'll see you tomorrow.
[1:27:14] >> Thank you.
[1:27:16] >> Mayor. Um, do you want to have an an
[1:27:18] executive session?
[1:27:19] >> Tomorrow. I'm just going to announce it.
[1:27:20] Tomorrow's executive session will start
[1:27:21] at 5:40.
[1:27:23] >> No, we we should start at 5:30.
[1:27:26] >> Yeah.
[1:27:26] >> All right. 5:30.
[1:27:28] >> Perfect.
[1:27:29] Mayor, I make a motion to adjurnn.
[1:27:31] >> Second,
[1:27:32] >> third.
[1:27:32] >> Moved and seconded. All in favor?
[1:27:34] >> I
[1:27:36] have enough.
[1:27:43] responsive,
[1:27:55] » right? Which means it's not
[1:28:09] » afraid. I'm afraid to go there because I
[1:28:10] might You know what?
[1:28:21] » It doesn't have to be
[1:28:35] » correct.
[1:28:39] Yeah. Yeah.
[1:28:42] and see if we need to do a regular
[1:28:45] Thank you. Good to see you. Sure,
[1:28:54] » Julie.