[0:03] Live.
[0:04] Is it working?
[0:05] Yeah, okay.
[0:07] we'll call to order at 7:02.
[0:11] If you'd join me with the Pledge of
[0:13] Allegiance.
[0:15] >> [clears throat]
[0:18] » I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
[0:21] United States of America, and to the
[0:23] republic for which it stands, one nation
[0:27] under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[0:30] justice for all.
[0:41] » Roll call.
[0:44] » Mayor Andrew Hagen.
[0:46] >> Here.
[0:47] >> Mayor Pro Tem Melinda Walker.
[0:49] >> Here.
[0:50] >> Councilmember Jeremy Engel.
[0:52] >> Present.
[0:52] >> Councilmember Shawn Sherman.
[0:54] >> Here.
[0:55] >> Councilmember Jeff Key.
[0:56] >> Here.
[0:57] >> You have quorum.
[0:59] >> It looks like we have a presentation
[1:00] today for
[1:02] a
[1:03] lumber It's a
[1:04] lumber yard sellers, right?
[1:06] Um it's a pretty
[1:08] good family business that's been in town
[1:10] here for a little while. My
[1:12] >> [screaming]
[1:12] >> uh wife's been there quite a few times
[1:14] and has reported back that it's a
[1:17] pretty uh
[1:18] amazing atmosphere, you know, um
[1:20] some high-quality
[1:22] people obviously you guys running that.
[1:24] Um
[1:25] it's it's pretty amazing that there's
[1:27] like 5,000 businesses that sounds like
[1:30] that were up against this particular
[1:32] award and you guys
[1:33] end up winning it. That's something to
[1:35] tip your hat to. That's pretty awesome.
[1:38] Um
[1:41] Did anyone on the dais want to say
[1:42] anything?
[1:44] >> I just have a brief comment. Um
[1:46] >> [snorts]
[1:47] >> Eric and Megan I remember when you came
[1:49] to planning commission. I know I was on
[1:52] the planning commission you were talking
[1:53] about bringing a wine bar.
[1:56] And here you are
[1:59] six, seven years later after that
[2:01] initial meeting and
[2:03] now you're really knocking it out out of
[2:05] the park for being small business of the
[2:07] year for ninth Assembly District. So, um
[2:12] I've definitely partaken in uh
[2:16] some of your wine and some of your uh
[2:18] charcuterie, but really
[2:21] uh I know
[2:23] and speaking with some of my friends
[2:25] living surrounding communities,
[2:28] um
[2:29] Lumberyard Cellars is now a landmark for
[2:31] the city of Escalon. And so, and really
[2:34] it all goes to both of your hard work
[2:37] uh and dedication to not only to this
[2:40] city, but
[2:41] obviously to your family. Um and so,
[2:44] thank you for making a really big impact
[2:46] in our community. It's very much
[2:48] appreciated.
[2:51] Anyone else like to say anything?
[2:53] >> Uh sure. Congratulations for being the
[2:55] 2026 Small Business of the Year for
[2:58] California's ninth California's ninth
[3:00] Assembly District. Um I've had the
[3:04] um
[3:05] pleasure of knowing Megan and her family
[3:08] for a very long time. There's nothing
[3:09] that you cannot achieve. You've had your
[3:12] vision, you put put hard work to it, and
[3:15] you have achieved great things. Um and
[3:17] thank you for bringing that and keeping
[3:19] that in the town of Escalon. So,
[3:21] congratulations to you.
[3:23] >> So, I'm just going to read this
[3:25] certificate we have from the city for
[3:27] you.
[3:27] Um
[3:28] in recognition of being named the 2026
[3:31] Small Business of the year of the year
[3:33] for California's ninth Assembly
[3:35] District. Um this was uh founded by
[3:38] Derek and
[3:39] Megan Webb. Uh The Lumberyard Cellars
[3:41] has become a welcoming gathering place
[3:44] in the heart of Escalon. I always hear
[3:47] great things about what you have going
[3:49] on there.
[3:50] Um
[3:51] Through its commitment to quality
[3:53] hospitality community events and local
[3:56] product
[3:58] Lumberyard
[3:59] Sellers is exemplified the
[4:01] entrepreneurial spirit and community
[4:04] pride that makes Escalon special.
[4:07] This Escalon City Council probably
[4:09] congratulates the Lumberyard Sellers on
[4:12] this distinguished honor and express its
[4:14] sincere appreciation for its positive
[4:16] contributions to to the Escalon
[4:18] community. So want to say thank you and
[4:20] give you a round of applause at least.
[4:23] >> [applause]
[4:29] >> Would you either one of you like to come
[4:32] up or the little one?
[4:33] Come up and give a speech here or say
[4:35] something?
[4:40] » Yeah, we just want to thank the city of
[4:41] Escalon for all the support and
[4:43] continued support as we continue moving
[4:44] on through business and you know, it's
[4:46] been a fun 5 years and
[4:48] just look forward to continued success
[4:50] in Escalon and bringing more people to
[4:52] the community. So
[4:53] thank you.
[5:01] » [snorts]
[5:02] >> Do you want to say something?
[5:03] >> No.
[5:04] >> [laughter]
[5:38] [music]
[5:45] » Maybe that's a seller were they're
[5:46] partying, huh?
[5:47] >> [laughter]
[5:51] [applause]
[5:57] » So, we'll move on to the consent
[5:58] calendar.
[6:01] Uh Mr. Mayor, I'd like to abstain from
[6:04] item number two and pull number five.
[6:07] >> And pull number five, okay.
[6:11] Uh anyone else?
[6:14] Okay. In um
[6:16] in the audience, anyone want to pull any
[6:17] of these?
[6:21] Okay. Anyone online?
[6:25] >> No hands raised.
[6:26] >> Okay. We'll bring it back to the dais.
[6:29] Um you want to humor a motion on the
[6:32] others?
[6:33] >> Yeah, I'll motion to approve uh
[6:36] consent uh
[6:38] items uh
[6:39] two through four.
[6:41] >> Okay.
[6:42] We have a second?
[6:44] >> I'll second.
[6:45] >> Okay. All in favor, say I.
[6:48] >> I.
[6:49] >> All approve um
[6:50] sorry sorry. All uh against, say nay.
[6:54] No? Okay.
[6:57] So, we'll go to five.
[6:58] >> Yeah.
[6:59] >> What's your concern?
[7:00] >> I have no concern. Actually, quite the
[7:02] opposite. Um
[7:05] I have been
[7:07] talking about this for the last
[7:09] three plus years, almost four years.
[7:12] Um
[7:13] and I really want to give major props to
[7:17] uh Jaylen and to uh Justin
[7:21] and the city team for actually
[7:24] um
[7:25] really taking to heart uh the potential
[7:28] for design build projects. Uh it is the
[7:31] future of delivering both private and
[7:35] public construction projects um
[7:38] throughout the world, in particular in
[7:41] California,
[7:42] um
[7:43] and I I live in this world every day.
[7:47] And um if you go back and you look at
[7:49] historical records,
[7:53] um since
[7:55] 1957, the the city has spent an
[7:58] inordinate an amount of money on design
[8:01] fees.
[8:02] And the beauty of design-build is that
[8:05] now it's one contract. Uh for those of
[8:09] you that don't know design-build,
[8:11] there's one legal contract, they're one
[8:13] legal entity. Designer and the builder
[8:16] are the same legal entity, which
[8:18] actually uh allows for
[8:21] more streamlined project projects, more
[8:23] streamlined processes.
[8:25] And
[8:27] um
[8:28] like I said, the design-build is uh the
[8:32] way of the future.
[8:34] And so, uh kudos for uh
[8:38] adopting this conflict-of-interest
[8:39] policy, and I look forward to uh future
[8:43] design-build projects for the city of
[8:45] Escondido.
[8:46] So, thank you.
[8:50] » Um anyone else like to make a statement
[8:52] up here?
[8:54] Since it's pulled, anyone in the
[8:56] audience want to make a statement?
[8:58] No? We'll bring it back to online.
[9:00] >> With that, I move to approve consent out
[9:03] calendar item number five.
[9:05] >> Okay. Do we have a second?
[9:06] >> Second.
[9:08] >> All in favor, say aye.
[9:09] >> Aye.
[9:10] >> All opposed, say nay.
[9:11] Okay.
[9:13] We'll go on to staff communications. Uh
[9:17] We'll start with Chief Far, with Okay.
[9:21] » [snorts]
[9:24] » So, July was uh fairly uneventful. There
[9:27] was a train versus pedestrian crash on
[9:31] uh the BNSF tracks over by the
[9:34] or pier, and then we also had park feet.
[9:36] was fairly uneventful. We had
[9:38] one arrest uh on night one for public
[9:41] intoxication and then on night two a
[9:44] woman who
[9:45] attempted to get in the VIA with a fake
[9:47] ID.
[9:48] But other than that, not really a whole
[9:49] lot.
[9:51] A lot to speak of.
[9:52] Officer Meza and Officer Gunter were
[9:54] tied with the most arrests with seven
[9:57] and Officer Meza led the department in
[9:59] citations with 23.
[10:01] >> Good work. Um question for you. Maybe
[10:04] just a brain uh storm.
[10:07] Is there Do you think these train
[10:08] getting hit by the train scenario is
[10:10] more like someone giving up on life or
[10:12] we having accidents you think?
[10:15] Like is there some Is there some way we
[10:16] can potentially
[10:18] you know, mitigate that or do you think
[10:19] it's just it is what it is?
[10:22] >> Uh
[10:23] we've had in the last
[10:27] two years I want to say the last two or
[10:29] last two years I think we had three in
[10:31] the last two years.
[10:32] >> Yeah.
[10:32] >> And so
[10:34] two of them
[10:36] seem like accidents. Uh one of them
[10:38] seemed like it might not be as far as it
[10:40] could be a possible intentional act. Um
[10:45] so I'm not necessarily certain what the
[10:48] increase is, but yeah, I've
[10:50] >> Mhm.
[10:50] >> been here 21 years and the last three
[10:52] years we've had more than my entire
[10:54] previous career combined.
[10:56] >> Seems like a weird yeah, some sort of a
[10:59] I don't know how you necessarily fix
[11:00] that or not, but just something maybe
[11:03] brainstorm and
[11:05] maybe in the audience if you have any
[11:07] ideas.
[11:09] Anyways, that was my thought on it.
[11:11] >> Well, and and Mr. Mayor, to that point,
[11:13] you know, people always think um
[11:17] Yes, obviously these victims um
[11:21] no one deserves to lose their life, but
[11:24] we also have to take into account uh the
[11:26] rail road crews
[11:28] because the train is only going one
[11:31] direction. The train can't stop.
[11:33] And so, there are two victims and every
[11:37] or possibly [clears throat]
[11:39] three victims and every incident if you
[11:41] take into account the the train crews as
[11:44] well. So, it's a definitely a horrible
[11:46] problem all the way around. And for our
[11:49] police officers and first responders
[11:51] they have to
[11:52] deal with that as well. So,
[11:54] it's not a pleasant situation.
[11:57] >> Um
[11:58] hats off to you for having to deal with
[12:00] that, guys.
[12:01] Both public works as well.
[12:03] Um
[12:04] any other questions for Chief?
[12:09] Uh we'll go to
[12:11] uh public works.
[12:12] >> Uh nothing for public works tonight
[12:13] unless you have any questions.
[12:15] >> Any questions for public works?
[12:17] >> Sure. What's up with VSS?
[12:20] >> They're completed at this point. So,
[12:22] that's what we're sticking with.
[12:24] >> On
[12:25] >> Sir.
[12:25] >> And what's the status of AT&T?
[12:29] >> And they're [clears throat] going to be
[12:29] we're getting ready to resubmit another
[12:31] permit going through the conditions that
[12:33] we had met with them. So, hopefully here
[12:35] in the next week they'll get start back
[12:36] up, but there'll be very strict rules on
[12:38] what they can and can't do.
[12:40] Um we'll have more inspectors on-site
[12:42] provided by AT&T and just a lot more
[12:44] babysitting.
[12:46] >> And will the when are they now
[12:47] anticipating being done and complete as
[12:50] well?
[12:50] >> There's no anticipation date at the
[12:52] moment just because we haven't gave them
[12:54] the the permit to go ahead and proceed.
[12:57] I don't think it's going to be a whole
[12:58] lot of time. Should be about a month
[13:00] process once they get going as far as
[13:01] rehabilitating everything. So, hopefully
[13:03] we can get them in and out of here
[13:04] quick.
[13:05] >> Yeah.
[13:07] >> Just to fill in the gaps a little bit
[13:08] there. Um
[13:10] I think they did hit a a third water
[13:12] line recently and and we had some
[13:14] significant questions on how and whether
[13:16] they were doing some potholing. Um so,
[13:19] we we stopped the job. We met with them.
[13:22] Um they brought some facts to it, but uh
[13:25] we have implemented some new rules.
[13:27] We're reviewing those rules right now.
[13:29] Um reviewing their response to the rules
[13:32] that we've established and we will
[13:34] reissue um the permit when, you know,
[13:37] we're comfortable that they will address
[13:39] things as as we see fit. Um they have
[13:43] been um positive about the changes and,
[13:46] you know, their
[13:48] approach moving forward, which is a good
[13:50] sign. Um but we will we will stay on it
[13:53] to ensure we protect the infrastructure
[13:54] of the city.
[13:58] » Any other questions?
[14:02] Back to city manager.
[14:04] Or Trevin, sorry.
[14:06] >> Yeah, sorry. I'm over here this time,
[14:07] so.
[14:08] >> [laughter]
[14:08] >> Thank you. I'll start with the
[14:10] recreation update. Um we've had a great
[14:12] um registration for flag football, so
[14:14] that continues to be a strong program.
[14:17] And summer recreation programming
[14:19] continues to to show strong
[14:20] participation with soccer. Um we did
[14:23] move the date for evaluations, so if
[14:26] you're a parent listening, just know
[14:27] that we're going to move that closer to
[14:29] the draft date to accommodate one of the
[14:31] high school's schedules.
[14:33] Um for adult soccer, this is a new
[14:35] program that the city has put on, as
[14:37] you're aware. And one of the hurdles is
[14:39] with a new program, you don't you don't
[14:41] really know if you're going to get
[14:42] enough participation. So, please report
[14:44] that we got three teams this year, which
[14:46] is enough to have a league, to have a
[14:48] program, and for everybody to have some
[14:50] fun. So, we we passed that hurdle as a
[14:52] community and we'll report back um mid
[14:56] midway through the league to report how
[14:58] it's going.
[14:59] Um and then for the community center, we
[15:01] were working with someone to lease the
[15:04] kitchen space. This was a new venture
[15:06] for the city to try and use the
[15:07] commercial kitchen more often and help
[15:10] uh cut the cottage food industry or
[15:11] someone who's working out of their house
[15:13] be able to utilize the the kitchen
[15:15] there. Um it does require them to carry
[15:18] their own insurance um liability. Um so,
[15:21] if there's anyone else out there that is
[15:23] willing to do that and wants to work
[15:25] with us, just let me know. Happy to work
[15:28] with them to help them get that set up.
[15:30] The first person that originally wanted
[15:32] to use it
[15:34] um hasn't gotten back in touch with us.
[15:36] It seems the insurance might have been
[15:37] something holding them back or might
[15:39] take them more time to do. So, we're
[15:41] available. We got all the kinks worked
[15:43] out, all the application stuff smoothed
[15:45] out. So, we're now ready to go. We just
[15:47] need someone to test the process with
[15:49] us.
[15:50] >> Okay.
[15:51] >> Um and for development services, um we
[15:54] continue to see
[15:56] uh normal permit activity.
[15:59] Um nothing crazy.
[16:01] Um
[16:01] and we do have an item on tonight where
[16:03] we'll talk a little bit more about that.
[16:04] So, that's that's all I have for
[16:06] tonight. Thank you.
[16:07] >> Okay.
[16:08] Any questions for Trevor?
[16:10] >> I've got one. Is there anyone that may
[16:12] have applied for our grants that may be
[16:15] interested in using that kitchen space?
[16:17] Somebody that may be a good fit from
[16:18] there?
[16:19] Have you run run down that list, I
[16:20] guess, is the uh the real question that
[16:22] I'm asking?
[16:23] >> Yeah, I know. It's a great question. We
[16:24] can certainly do that. Um good timing to
[16:26] ask that question to them because we
[16:28] just asked them for their mandatory
[16:30] 6-month update. So, we'll be hosting uh
[16:33] meetings with them to touch base and any
[16:35] of them that do food prep, we'll make
[16:36] sure to let them
[16:37] >> Not necessarily one of the recipients,
[16:39] but you know, any of the applicants
[16:40] even. You know, they're they're all
[16:41] looking for, you know, expansion. You
[16:43] know, that's a good way for a food
[16:45] service to expand without um
[16:47] very aggressive cost, I would think. So.
[16:49] >> Yeah. Makes sense.
[16:53] » All right. Any other questions?
[16:56] No. We'll go back to city manager.
[16:59] >> Nothing further.
[17:00] >> Okay.
[17:01] Any questions for city manager?
[17:04] Questions for Frank?
[17:07] No?
[17:07] >> Okay. We'll take it out to the audience.
[17:10] Uh any questions for staff at all?
[17:13] No? Online?
[17:18] » Nothing online.
[17:19] All right, we'll bring it back
[17:21] to matters presented from the audience.
[17:24] Excuse me. [clears throat] The public
[17:25] may comment on any matter not listed on
[17:28] the agenda that is within the city of Escalon subject matter
[17:32] jurisdiction. Members of the public may
[17:34] address the city council on any agenda
[17:37] item when that item is called for
[17:39] consideration. Each speaker is limited
[17:41] to 5 minutes and unused time may not be
[17:44] transferred to another speaker. Speakers
[17:46] may provide their name and address for
[17:48] the record but are not required to do
[17:50] so. Under state law, the city council
[17:53] generally may not discuss or take action
[17:55] on matters that are not listed on the
[17:56] agenda
[17:58] except to provide a brief response. If
[18:01] further action is warranted, the matter
[18:03] may be referred to staff or placed on a
[18:05] future agenda. The mayor has discretion
[18:08] to determine whether a matter is within
[18:10] the city's subject matter jurisdiction.
[18:13] That being said, we have any matters
[18:15] from the audience?
[18:22] » Yes, good afternoon everybody. Uh my
[18:24] name is Michael Masuda. I came here to
[18:26] introduce myself this evening. I'm
[18:27] running for Congress in the California
[18:29] 5th Congressional District. Oh, I I uh I
[18:32] live in Riverbank, so just across the
[18:33] river.
[18:34] Um I actually grew up in Amador County.
[18:37] I remember coming down this way in the
[18:39] preseason for baseball and basketball uh
[18:42] to play against Escalon High School. You
[18:43] all always had a good teams over here
[18:46] and so I'm hoping that that's continued
[18:47] on. Um I went to after I graduated from
[18:51] high school, I went to college at Cal
[18:52] Poly in San Luis Obispo for a degree in electrical engineering. And I took
[18:57] that out uh to the Washington D.C. area
[19:00] to start a career over there with my
[19:02] wife uh working in defense research. And
[19:04] I made my way into the federal
[19:06] government working as a public servant
[19:08] at the State Department. And uh now I
[19:11] came back home to California to run for
[19:13] Congress to be close to my family. I got
[19:15] two kids in tow with me since coming
[19:18] back. I've got a 4-year-old and a
[19:19] 2-year-old. And I'm very focused on
[19:22] building communities, a state, a country
[19:26] that
[19:27] my kids have an opportunity where
[19:29] they're treated fairly, where they're
[19:30] treated with respect. And that's
[19:32] something that all of our kids can have
[19:34] for them.
[19:35] I really believe that
[19:37] these roles are focused on service and
[19:40] that it's actually service to all of you
[19:42] and all the members of the community.
[19:44] I am not going to be the one that tells
[19:46] you all how to do your job, right?
[19:48] That's not what the a congressman is
[19:51] supposed to do.
[19:52] I really want to work with you all to
[19:53] understand what city of Escalon needs
[19:56] and how I can be of service to all of
[19:58] you at the federal level.
[20:01] I know the federal government doesn't
[20:02] have all the answers and it shouldn't
[20:03] have all the answers. But there's a lot
[20:05] of resources and things that need to
[20:07] happen at the federal level that can
[20:08] make things much easier and can help
[20:11] address some of the challenges that you
[20:12] all are facing in this community.
[20:15] So I'm here today to just introduce
[20:16] myself. Going forward, I would love to
[20:18] sit down with with any all of you at
[20:20] some point individually, of course,
[20:23] and other members from the community to
[20:24] understand what are some of the
[20:26] challenges that you all are facing and
[20:28] what you're looking for in your next
[20:29] congressman.
[20:31] I did want to mention that
[20:33] Escalon and this portion of San Joaquin
[20:35] County are has been added to the fifth
[20:38] district
[20:39] with the redistricting in in California
[20:41] with Prop 50. It is one of 12 counties
[20:45] either in whole or in part that now make
[20:47] up the fifth district. It goes all the
[20:49] way to the Nevada border from Alpine
[20:50] County down to Death Valley in Inyo
[20:52] County. It covers this whole swath of
[20:54] the Sierra Nevada from Eldorado all the
[20:56] way down to Fresno County and it touches
[20:58] the Central Valley here in Stanislaus
[21:00] County and Madera County and also in
[21:02] Fresno County. This district is the size
[21:04] of West Virginia. And so
[21:07] it's very easy, I think, for a or
[21:11] it makes it very difficult to get around
[21:12] at times. But, I firmly believe that
[21:14] showing up, talking with folks,
[21:16] listening, trying to understand
[21:17] challenges, and trying to go to work on
[21:19] those challenges is what this job is all
[21:21] about. So, as we move forward, I will
[21:24] continue to be available to you. I have
[21:26] passed out one business card already,
[21:28] but I'll make sure that you have my
[21:29] contact information. I also wanted to
[21:31] invite all of you and any members from
[21:34] the community that are here or watching
[21:36] online. We are doing a town hall in
[21:39] Oakdale on the 11th of September at the
[21:41] senior center there.
[21:43] I really want to bring in a lot of
[21:45] communities,
[21:46] Escalon, Riverbank, of course Oakdale
[21:48] and Knights Ferry to to come and talk,
[21:51] share your share your your thoughts, ask
[21:54] your questions. It's going to be from
[21:55] 6:00 to 8:00 and the whole community,
[21:59] bring your kids, everybody is welcome to
[22:01] be part of this.
[22:03] So,
[22:03] if there are any questions at any point,
[22:06] you can go to my website votemasuda.com.
[22:08] There's an email on there or you know,
[22:10] I'll be sticking around here for a
[22:11] little while to to chat after after the
[22:13] meeting. So, thank you so much for your
[22:15] time. I really appreciate it.
[22:17] >> Thank you as well.
[22:19] A breath a breath of fresh air to
[22:21] actually see a congressman here.
[22:23] Um
[22:24] So, thank you.
[22:27] >> Oh.
[22:28] Anyone else have a There we go.
[22:30] >> Of course.
[22:32] Um first of all,
[22:34] I have a
[22:36] almost 4-year-old granddaughter that is
[22:38] going to have a
[22:39] lemonade stand tomorrow specifically for
[22:42] city workers.
[22:43] And it's going to be from noon to 1:00
[22:46] and her price is free to city workers.
[22:49] So, they need to come and
[22:52] say hello to her. She especially would
[22:54] like to see the street sweeper.
[22:57] >> [laughter]
[22:58] >> Uh anyway,
[22:59] >> Sure. Sure.
[23:00] >> All right. All right. Public work and our officers too cuz she got to
[23:03] visit the
[23:05] outside you know the the foyer of the
[23:07] police department last week and she
[23:09] thought that was the greatest thing. So
[23:11] maybe we can work on her saying
[23:12] something else. Anyway, she
[23:13] [clears throat] just thought that was
[23:14] great. So if you all would just come
[23:16] humor her, she made homemade lemonade
[23:19] from softest lemons and with honey and
[23:22] water. So you know, it's kind of
[23:23] healthy.
[23:25] >> Well, what time
[23:25] >> little tart.
[23:27] >> [laughter]
[23:28] >> What's your What's your um What time?
[23:31] >> Noon to 1.
[23:32] Well, she'll be Are you kidding? If you
[23:34] knock on the door, she'll be there. So
[23:36] >> [laughter]
[23:37] >> I mean you know, she's not going to turn
[23:38] you away.
[23:39] Oh, anyway, she's she's cute. Oh.
[23:43] >> Location, somebody asked.
[23:45] >> On Sacramento Street?
[23:46] Can't miss us. You
[23:48] won't miss us.
[23:49] A big white house. Big white house,
[23:51] flagpole.
[23:53] No line.
[23:54] >> Street.
[23:54] >> Right in front of the high school, three
[23:56] houses down, right?
[23:57] >> It's 1325 Sacramento.
[23:59] >> All right. If you're anybody else other
[24:01] than in the city and and same place and our police officers, well you'll
[24:05] have to pay her. Sorry, just saying.
[24:07] Okay.
[24:08] Um
[24:12] I love history. You all know that. I
[24:14] love There's There's three subjects that
[24:15] you know really greatly Well, there's
[24:17] many subjects that greatly I love as my
[24:20] children and grandchildren all say, "Oh,
[24:22] I say Oh, that's my favorite." And
[24:24] they're like, "They're all your
[24:25] favorites." Well, yeah, they are. So
[24:27] one of them though is history. And going
[24:30] back to the roots and going back to our
[24:33] roots and the blessings of our country,
[24:35] the blessings of our state, the
[24:36] blessings of our city.
[24:39] Um
[24:41] I'm pretty sure the majority of the
[24:42] people in this room have no idea that
[24:44] there is only one state in the United
[24:46] States of America whose Constitution
[24:49] mentions and asks for the blessing of
[24:51] almighty God. Any guesses as to what
[24:53] state that would be? It'll shock you.
[24:55] It's ours.
[24:57] It's our state and our preamble.
[24:59] It appeals to almighty God for blessing
[25:02] and to keep us on the straight and
[25:03] narrow. I think we could maybe start
[25:05] praying that.
[25:07] Um
[25:08] So, I wanted to go back and look at
[25:10] something that I thought was really a
[25:11] really interesting. And the first
[25:12] Continental Congress in um September
[25:15] 7th, 1774. You know, we just had our
[25:17] 250th anniversary, right? Very short.
[25:20] It's really short. It'll be less than my
[25:22] 5 minutes, I promise.
[25:24] Um So, the first prayer of the
[25:25] Continental Congress and I thought it
[25:27] could
[25:28] benefit us.
[25:30] It says, "Oh Lord, our heavenly Father,
[25:31] high and mighty King of kings and Lord
[25:33] of lords, who dost from thy throne" It's
[25:35] old English.
[25:37] "Behold all the dwellers on earth and
[25:39] reignest with power supreme and
[25:41] uncontrolled over all the kingdoms,
[25:43] empires, and governments. Look down in
[25:45] mercy." I think we could use that. "We
[25:47] beseech thee on these our American
[25:49] states who have fled to thee from the
[25:51] rod of thy oppressor and thrown
[25:53] themselves on thy gracious protection,
[25:56] desiring to be henceforth dependent only
[25:58] on thee.
[26:00] And to thee, you,
[26:02] have they appealed
[26:04] for the righteousness of their cause. To
[26:06] thee do they now look up for that
[26:07] countenance and support which thou only
[26:09] canst give.
[26:11] Take them therefore, heavenly Father,
[26:13] under thy nurturing care. Give them
[26:14] wisdom and counsel.
[26:16] We're a council, right?
[26:18] I pray wisdom for you guys. And valor in
[26:20] the field. Defeat the malicious designs
[26:23] of our cruel adversaries. Convince them
[26:24] of the unrighteousness of their cause.
[26:26] And if they persist in their sanguinary
[26:28] purposes
[26:30] of own unerring justice sounding in
[26:32] their hearts, constrain them to drop the
[26:34] weapons of war from their unnerved hands
[26:36] in the day of battle. Be thou present,
[26:38] oh God of wisdom, and direct the
[26:39] councils of this honorable assembly. I'm
[26:42] hoping this is an honorable assembly. I
[26:43] know you all pretty well. I think you
[26:45] are.
[26:46] Enable them to settle things on the best
[26:48] and surest foundation
[26:50] that the scene of blood may be speedily
[26:52] that order, harmony, and peace may be
[26:54] effectively restored, and truth and
[26:56] justice, religion and piety prevail and
[26:58] flourish amongst the people.
[27:00] Preserve the health of their bodies, and
[27:02] I would like to extend that to this
[27:04] body,
[27:05] and vigor of their minds. Shower down on
[27:07] them the millions they here represent.
[27:10] Okay, well, Escalante's maybe only a few
[27:11] thousand, but that's okay.
[27:13] Such temporal blessings as thou seest
[27:15] expedient for them in this world, and
[27:17] crown them with everlasting glory in the
[27:18] world to come. And all of this we ask in
[27:20] the name to the merits of Jesus Christ,
[27:22] son and our savior. Amen. That was
[27:24] Reverend Jacob Duché, rector of Christ
[27:27] Church on September 7th, 1774.
[27:30] But you know, those words still ring
[27:31] true.
[27:32] And once they're released into the
[27:34] atmosphere and the frequency, oh, I took
[27:36] more than my 5 minutes, sorry. Um,
[27:38] they still permeate, so
[27:40] may you all have wisdom tonight.
[27:42] >> Thank you.
[27:43] for the kind words.
[27:46] Um, anyone else like to say anything?
[27:56] » Good evening.
[27:57] Um, I'm happy to be here, especially in
[28:00] Escalante.
[28:01] My wife and I just moved here in uh
[28:04] January of 2024, and I'm and she is
[28:08] absolutely thrilled to be here.
[28:10] It's the best little community ever, so
[28:12] I hope everyone here appreciates what
[28:14] you have, cuz it's awesome.
[28:16] Uh, the other thing I wanted to talk to
[28:17] you about, and by the way, my name is
[28:19] Travis Clement, and my wife is Connie
[28:22] Clement. We live over here in uh
[28:25] Country Wood Estates. So, Country Wood
[28:27] Estates is what I wanted to ask you
[28:28] about, and it's the assessment.
[28:31] And I was wondering, has anyone ever
[28:32] tried to do this assessment increase
[28:35] since it was originally put into place?
[28:38] Why did it get turned down?
[28:40] Uh,
[28:41] you know, do you have any insight on
[28:42] that?
[28:45] » You want to give a brief overview? I question real quick?
[28:49] Are Are you asking about the park
[28:51] improvements or are you talking about
[28:52] the annual
[28:52] >> park improvements, the lighting,
[28:54] uh fix-ups and stuff that's needed, the
[28:56] fence that's
[28:57] falling apart.
[28:58] >> You need to just call timeout cuz we
[29:00] will get into that in the public
[29:02] hearing.
[29:03] >> Oh, okay.
[29:03] >> next agenda item.
[29:05] >> Sounds all right. That's fair.
[29:06] >> That's Bill Eltara, though.
[29:07] >> I think we're probably okay to go ahead
[29:08] and
[29:08] >> Just give a brief response.
[29:09] >> Yeah, if he's talking about the park,
[29:11] the Swanson Park uh improvement, then
[29:14] that was voted on prior.
[29:16] Assume you're talking about the Yeah,
[29:18] okay.
[29:18] >> Okay, my apologies. I thought you were
[29:20] talking about the overall assessment.
[29:22] >> No, no, just for the country club.
[29:24] >> Um actually, that same neighborhood had,
[29:27] I think,
[29:28] 2013, 2014 had voted in to install the
[29:33] playground that is now there. So, they
[29:35] had gone through that process um several
[29:37] years ago. I think what we heard from
[29:40] this particular vote is um the
[29:43] neighborhood to the north, south?
[29:48] >> South side that's not
[29:49] >> The neighborhood to the south doesn't
[29:51] >> Yeah, doesn't, right? The neighborhood
[29:53] to the south um is not part of the
[29:56] district and therefore isn't paying into
[29:58] the district. Um and so there was some
[30:01] views on inequity in that regard. Um
[30:05] what we also heard, there was many who
[30:07] probably no longer have children and and
[30:10] didn't
[30:11] wouldn't benefit from the services as
[30:13] much as uh those who did. Um so, that
[30:16] was, I think, what we mostly heard in
[30:18] terms of why it was voted down this
[30:21] time.
[30:22] >> Okay, I can understand that. And the
[30:24] thing for me is no children here for us,
[30:27] you know, ours are long gone and and uh
[30:30] no grandkids or anything to bring to
[30:32] play, but I know kids need place to play
[30:35] and need to keep it nice, and it is
[30:37] nice, and I want it to stay that way.
[30:40] And uh so, I I voted for the assessment.
[30:43] And even though it was kind of a huge
[30:45] jump from 0.03 for us to 1,000, but
[30:48] I think it's worth it. And uh
[30:50] I I understand, you know, people
[30:52] thinking it's not fair if they're not
[30:54] uh people who are there benefiting or
[30:56] are not being assessed. So, I get it.
[31:00] Thank you for the insight on that.
[31:03] Thank you again for having such a
[31:04] beautiful city for us to come to.
[31:06] >> Welcome to the city.
[31:06] >> Yeah, welcome to the city, Travis.
[31:08] You said Clements, right?
[31:10] >> Yes.
[31:10] >> Got you.
[31:17] Uh anyone else like to make a uh
[31:19] statement or say something?
[31:31] » My name's Kurt Paulus. I've been born
[31:33] and raised here in Escalon. I graduated
[31:35] in 1978, and I'm here to offer a
[31:39] proposal caretaker on the property that
[31:42] you the city bought from the Varos, the
[31:45] 19.2 acres next to the community center.
[31:51] And in my interest in this is where my
[31:53] family, we owned that property for a
[31:55] total of 72 years, which my grandfather
[31:59] and then my father, they don't when we
[32:00] sold it to the Varos.
[32:03] Where I'm a single guy, and there's a
[32:05] little unit in the house where what my
[32:08] proposal is
[32:09] I have three folders here that
[32:12] I could hand out to where you could take
[32:13] a look and get an idea, and I'd come
[32:16] back and tell you
[32:17] where, you know, my deal connects.
[32:29] There There's pictures in the folder
[32:32] that I just took yesterday of uh
[32:36] Just how it looks, you know, the property out
[32:39] in front, the weeds and everything. And
[32:42] my proposal is just to keep it clean.
[32:45] And
[32:45] nice
[32:46] good-looking for there's the small unit
[32:49] in the very back. This is a real small
[32:50] unit. It's two rooms and it has a
[32:55] bathroom and stuff and that's what my
[32:57] offer is for taking care of property.
[33:00] And that's
[33:02] pretty much my proposal, you know, where
[33:04] I just
[33:06] um watch over it
[33:08] till the time came of
[33:10] there and I put an agreement in here
[33:12] where uh
[33:14] I'm not very good at this, but yeah, I
[33:16] put an agreement where if you needed me
[33:18] to go or it was like just give me 30
[33:20] days or whatever, but
[33:22] I've been a long time residents of here,
[33:24] never been in trouble in my life and I'm
[33:27] so I just like to could you look at it
[33:31] and cons- consider it.
[33:33] >> All right. We'll definitely consider it.
[33:35] We'll have to read through your proposal
[33:37] and
[33:37] >> All righty.
[33:38] >> I think no one up here is probably
[33:40] against
[33:41] >> Uh-huh.
[33:42] >> speak for everyone, but probably against
[33:43] uh reading your proposal and seeing what
[33:45] you
[33:46] and you're asking for.
[33:47] >> Okay. Thank you.
[33:48] >> No problem.
[33:51] » [clears throat]
[33:54] » Uh anyone else?
[33:57] No. Okay, we'll go online.
[34:00] Okay.
[34:02] Back to dais.
[34:04] All right. We'll go to public hearings
[34:06] now and start with seven.
[34:08] >> [snorts]
[34:14] » May I introduce it?
[34:15] >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh so this is
[34:18] a continuation of the public hearing to
[34:19] confirm the engineer's report and
[34:21] ordering the levy of assessments for
[34:23] next fiscal year 2026-2027 for all of
[34:26] the assessment districts, which includes
[34:28] the Bella Terra Estates, the uh Estates
[34:31] Benefit Assessment District, Estates
[34:33] Landscaping and Lighting
[34:35] Maintenance District, Sunrise Terrace,
[34:37] and Westwood Country Landscape and
[34:39] Lighting Maintenance District. Um
[34:44] Uh
[34:45] as you as we went through a lot of the
[34:47] details in the last meeting, um this is
[34:50] like I mentioned is a continuation. It
[34:51] requires two um public hearings in order
[34:54] to move this forward. It is the annual
[34:57] um assessments. So, unlike the other
[34:59] item that was discussed and not to
[35:02] confuse it with that one, this is for
[35:04] the annual ongoing maintenance, not for
[35:06] any upgraded improvements or anything
[35:09] like that. Um it's a routine but
[35:11] essential action to fund the various
[35:13] different components of the
[35:15] neighborhoods, um which is uh in
[35:18] includes landscaping, lighting, and
[35:20] maintenance, uh wood fences, chain link
[35:23] fences, drainage basins, um all of the
[35:25] things that keep the neighborhoods safe
[35:27] and operating. Um the engineers' reports
[35:31] that are attached to each one of these
[35:33] um districts confirmed all of the costs
[35:36] required for the assessments for the
[35:38] next fiscal year. Um every year those
[35:40] engineers' reports are um re- reviewed
[35:44] and edited and uh starting with this
[35:46] year we're providing the redline
[35:48] versions of you so you can see if any
[35:49] changes were made um to the budget or
[35:52] any of the descriptions or histories um
[35:55] for the for each district.
[35:58] Um so, these uh assessment districts
[36:00] ensure neighborhood landscaping and
[36:01] lighting are properly funded and they
[36:03] provide the legal and financial basis
[36:05] for the levies. Um so, with that the
[36:08] recommendation is to go ahead and uh
[36:10] conduct the public hearing, hear from
[36:12] anybody that wants to discuss it, and
[36:14] then adopt the resolutions to confirm
[36:16] the engineers' reports.
[36:18] >> Thank you, manager.
[36:19] >> Yeah, and I'll just add one note. Uh we
[36:20] did, as Trevor mentioned, continue this
[36:22] item from the July 20th meeting. At that
[36:25] time we discovered that the additional
[36:27] uh outreach and notification to each
[36:30] resident within each property owner
[36:32] within the districts was not completed.
[36:35] Um this is something that we had added
[36:37] uh this year based on council uh
[36:40] direction to really provide as much
[36:44] information as possible to the
[36:46] residents. And so one of the things that
[36:48] we added was of course this notice of
[36:50] the public hearing that's uh happening
[36:52] tonight. But also we put in a line item
[36:56] um expenditure report for everything
[37:00] that is spent in each district. So every
[37:02] monthly uh utility bill, every every
[37:05] monthly water bill, uh every monthly
[37:07] landscaping bill, we put it all in there
[37:10] to show the residents exactly um what
[37:13] their assessment is made up of and they
[37:16] can compare that expense report to this
[37:18] new assessment and show kind of where
[37:21] we're at and and how we got there.
[37:24] Um so that was something we we added
[37:25] new. Again, we uh had not um completed
[37:28] that prior to the July 20th meeting and
[37:31] so we continued that until today.
[37:34] >> Okay.
[37:35] Well, uh thank you for the transparency.
[37:38] I think
[37:39] um
[37:40] you guys have been doing a great job
[37:42] kind of
[37:43] more and more
[37:45] allowing the citizens to see, you know,
[37:48] how everything plays out behind the
[37:49] scenes. So it's really appreciated. Um
[37:53] So um
[37:55] Anyone want to say anything up here
[37:57] before I go to the citizens first or
[38:00] I have some questions for the consultant
[38:02] but I'll wait.
[38:03] >> Okay.
[38:05] We'll go out this time and see if
[38:08] anyone from the public would like to
[38:10] make a comment on number seven.
[38:21] » Hi.
[38:23] My name is Loretta Borbazon. I live in
[38:25] the Bella Terra state.
[38:28] Um my understanding I did see the
[38:31] what the gentleman stated, the breakdown
[38:33] of everything, the cost, $101,000
[38:36] divided by 143
[38:39] homes would cost me $700 extra every
[38:43] year.
[38:43] I don't mind as long as it looks nice
[38:45] and neat. I was out there today. I've
[38:47] seen weeds out there, dry spots.
[38:50] I have pictures to prove it. I mean, if
[38:53] I'm going to pay this extra money, I
[38:55] expect everything to be tip-top shape.
[38:58] And I'm wondering why.
[39:00] >> Okay.
[39:02] You want to um actually probably public
[39:04] works.
[39:05] >> Yeah, that's that's funny she brings
[39:06] that up. Just in communication I met
[39:07] with Grover over there today. Um they
[39:10] were having some issues with some of the
[39:11] sprinkler system. Change out a few
[39:12] sprinklers in the next few days. They
[39:13] will be addressing that. She's exactly
[39:15] right. Yeah, the park uh itself right
[39:17] now is not acceptable. There's lots of
[39:19] dry areas, but we are aware of it.
[39:20] Grover's addressing that as we speak.
[39:22] >> There are weeds, too. They're not
[39:24] pulling the weeds. They're not pulling
[39:26] the weeds in the cement. They're not
[39:27] pulling the weeds in the park.
[39:29] >> We'll definitely address that.
[39:30] >> Okay.
[39:31] >> Loretta, would you um mind reporting
[39:33] back?
[39:34] >> No, not at all.
[39:35] >> Sounds good.
[39:36] >> Okay. Thank you very much.
[39:38] You want to deduct my bill? I'd be more
[39:40] than happy to.
[39:40] >> [laughter]
[39:44] » Um anyone else?
[39:47] No? Okay.
[39:49] We'll bring back the dais. Actually,
[39:51] sorry, online first.
[39:53] >> Um no.
[39:55] >> Dias?
[39:55] >> No hands raised online.
[39:56] >> Councilman
[39:58] >> I had a question.
[39:59] >> Yeah, do we have our consultant here?
[40:01] >> We do.
[40:02] >> Can we please invite him or her to the
[40:05] podium?
[40:06] >> Her, and her name is Melanie.
[40:07] >> Okay.
[40:08] >> And she's online.
[40:09] >> Okay.
[40:10] Uh good evening, Melanie. Um in
[40:12] reviewing these, um
[40:15] is street sweeping included for all of
[40:19] the uh
[40:20] LLDs and FY 2026-27 as a cost?
[40:26] » So, when we looked at So, sorry.
[40:29] Let me start from the beginning. Go
[40:30] back. Hi, my name is Melanie Lee. I'm
[40:32] with consultant with SCI Consulting
[40:34] Group and we are the new LMD
[40:36] administrators for the city's um um for
[40:39] LL um LLMDs and the one benefit
[40:43] assessment district. Um for the Indian
[40:46] Street report, the um Estates benefit
[40:49] assessment district is the only one that
[40:50] specifically calls out the street
[40:52] sweeping in a line item budget in the
[40:54] engineer's report, whereas the other
[40:57] ones have it included under professional
[40:59] services. And if you um look at the back
[41:02] of the engineer's report where there's
[41:04] an appendix, they will have um
[41:06] specifically the street sweeping um
[41:09] uh
[41:10] expenditures in that part of the um the
[41:13] engineer's report.
[41:15] >> Okay, so they are
[41:18] the street sweeping is accounted for in
[41:20] the LLMD costs, correct?
[41:23] >> Yes, if it's in the expenditures um
[41:25] report that was provided, it is.
[41:27] >> Okay, so
[41:29] um
[41:32] I I I have I take exception with some of
[41:35] these costs. Um they're very real costs
[41:39] and and I'm not arguing that they're
[41:41] 100% real costs. I mean, I will say uh
[41:44] as the mayor alluded to, the accounting
[41:47] and the reports that we are getting uh
[41:50] for actual costs are very real and it's
[41:52] very understandable.
[41:55] And but that being said, the the intent
[41:58] of an LLMD is to provide
[42:01] uh special benefits to those residents
[42:03] within the LLMD um and it's specific
[42:07] specifically noted
[42:09] the special benefits associated with
[42:11] local landscaping improvements are
[42:13] specifically
[42:15] enhanced desirability of properties due
[42:17] to proximity and accessibility of the
[42:19] improvements,
[42:21] improved aesthetic appeal provided by a
[42:23] positive representation of the
[42:25] development, neighborhood, and the
[42:26] community,
[42:28] improved accessibility for emergency
[42:30] vehicles, and reduced vandalism and
[42:33] other criminal activity.
[42:36] If I'm going through and I'm looking at
[42:39] some of these costs,
[42:41] um
[42:43] I don't know. I I take exception to
[42:48] the LLMDs
[42:50] because the grass at Sanchez Park is the
[42:52] same color green that's currently at
[42:55] Shadowood Park.
[42:57] The masonry wall that is at Brentwood
[43:00] Estates
[43:01] is the same Brent same masonry wall that
[43:04] currently surrounds
[43:06] Bellaterra.
[43:08] And
[43:11] I understand we have to cover the costs.
[43:13] That's our job as council to ensure that
[43:17] the
[43:18] community or the city remains
[43:20] financially solvent.
[43:22] But as we witnessed uh
[43:25] when with the 218 vote that came before
[43:28] us
[43:29] regarding the improvements of um
[43:32] >> [snorts]
[43:33] >> What's what What's this park?
[43:35] >> Swanson With Swanson Park,
[43:38] I I believe that the
[43:42] it's almost getting to the point where
[43:44] um
[43:45] the LLMDs are pitting neighbor against
[43:48] neighbor.
[43:49] Uh we we have an audience member
[43:52] uh in the audience tonight that when the
[43:55] discussion came up regarding the
[43:57] improvements at Swanson Park,
[44:00] um he specifically
[44:03] told
[44:04] the council,
[44:06] "I'm not paying for those. I will pay
[44:08] for those improvements,
[44:10] but they have to belong to the LLMD.
[44:13] And essentially, what we have is
[44:17] and I understand it's a choice. You
[44:20] decided to move into that neighborhood.
[44:22] You decided to take on this extra cost.
[44:25] However,
[44:27] I did an informal poll
[44:29] uh of residents in all of the LLMDs.
[44:34] I asked them one simple question.
[44:37] Explain to me the the special benefits
[44:39] that you get from living in an LLMD.
[44:43] And five out of five people said,
[44:47] "Not a damn thing."
[44:50] So,
[44:52] but it it's our job to make sure that
[44:54] the city stays financially solvent. If
[44:57] we vote this down,
[44:59] then the lights go off. Then the grass
[45:01] grows.
[45:03] The that uh
[45:05] to uh what the lady said previously,
[45:09] then we have even more weeds.
[45:11] But I think we as a council
[45:14] really need to look at
[45:17] what we're doing for LLMDs
[45:20] moving forward.
[45:22] Because now, what you have is you're
[45:25] pitting neighbor against neighbor.
[45:28] The people that live within the LLMDs
[45:31] don't understand the benefits that
[45:33] they're getting.
[45:35] Um
[45:36] question for the
[45:38] actually, city manager wasn't here, but
[45:40] so question for public works. When we
[45:42] put the uh backstop in at Shadowwood
[45:45] Park, did that trigger a 218 vote?
[45:48] >> I do not believe so.
[45:50] >> So, how did we charge
[45:53] the residents of Bella Terra for
[45:56] to repair a back charge or a back but
[45:59] backstop
[46:00] >> [snorts]
[46:00] >> that they never never even proved to be
[46:02] put to put in in the first place.
[46:06] And additionally, the reason I asked the
[46:07] question about street sweeping
[46:10] is I live on here 70th Avenue.
[46:13] Street sweeping to me
[46:15] is part of the taxes that I pay.
[46:20] If you ask those same residents on
[46:21] California California Street, guess
[46:23] what?
[46:25] They're paying for street sweeping.
[46:27] So, I I'm imploring the council and
[46:31] staff
[46:33] that we seriously need to look at
[46:36] what we're doing for LLMDs moving
[46:39] forward.
[46:40] Because if our residents aren't
[46:42] understanding and can't appreciate the
[46:45] special benefit
[46:47] that they're getting,
[46:50] why do we even have LLMDs in the first
[46:52] place?
[46:55] That's all I want to say.
[46:58] >> Well, I'd [clears throat] say
[46:59] um
[47:01] personally, I would think you need to
[47:03] maybe formulate the some more specifics.
[47:07] Uh
[47:08] that way if there is something that's
[47:10] being lost in translation, it can be
[47:11] translated.
[47:13] As well as uh
[47:15] you know,
[47:16] the understanding of of why, I think, is
[47:20] important. Um
[47:22] Other than that, I think,
[47:25] you know, if you don't have these things
[47:26] in in place, then, generally speaking, it's
[47:30] my understanding that the
[47:32] those general areas start to kind of
[47:33] become dilapidated or start to fall
[47:35] apart. Um
[47:37] so, maybe we can do a better job at I
[47:40] think
[47:42] at some point itemizing or showing
[47:44] exactly,
[47:46] >> [clears throat]
[47:46] >> you know,
[47:47] what they're getting if they're not
[47:49] quite understanding what that is.
[47:51] >> I don't think I don't think that's
[47:52] necessarily the issue, Mr. Mayor.
[47:55] >> Well, what's the issue?
[47:57] >> I think the issue is is that
[48:00] the original intent of the LLMDs was to
[48:03] truly provide a special benefit to the
[48:06] residents when they moved in there.
[48:08] And through time, through attrition,
[48:11] through what have you,
[48:14] the special benefit is lost.
[48:17] Um, for example,
[48:19] improved accessibility for emergency
[48:21] vehicles.
[48:24] What on God's green earth are we
[48:26] [snorts] doing to provide
[48:28] improved accessibility for emergency
[48:31] vehicles in the estates?
[48:34] There's no improved In fact, it's
[48:36] because the streets are so narrow, it's
[48:38] actually creating a bigger bottleneck.
[48:41] And so,
[48:43] I I'm I'm asking I don't have the
[48:46] answer. I and this isn't going to turn
[48:49] into a complete complaint session
[48:51] because
[48:53] uh
[48:54] we're not here the whole time, but the
[48:55] reality is
[48:57] we need to figure out holistically
[49:00] what is truly the special benefit that
[49:02] our residents within the LLMDs, what are
[49:05] they getting? What are they getting for
[49:07] what they pay for?
[49:08] >> Like it I guess [clears throat] what I
[49:10] would say is
[49:11] um maybe go through those walk through
[49:14] that
[49:15] exercise and
[49:18] maybe for each LLMD and specifically
[49:20] write down
[49:21] >> Okay.
[49:22] >> what your concerns are so then we can
[49:24] kind of talk about it um and see if
[49:27] there's some solution or some issue that
[49:30] maybe we're missing. I'm not against you
[49:32] know, looking at it,
[49:33] but I also
[49:35] don't uh
[49:37] don't fully understand what you're
[49:39] saying, but I
[49:40] I'd be more than happy to go over it
[49:42] with you.
[49:43] >> Well, I I think it's it's more so a
[49:46] general conversation at a future
[49:48] meeting.
[49:50] >> Okay.
[49:51] Um
[49:53] Yeah, I don't have a problem with that,
[49:54] but
[49:55] >> With that, can we
[49:56] >> But I think it needs to be more
[49:57] specific. I think you need to
[50:00] Right now, you're talking in
[50:00] generalities a lot. You did give one
[50:02] specific, but it would be nice to kind
[50:05] of I think you'd have to hit these one
[50:07] at a time, where you'd have to have some
[50:09] sort of uh
[50:11] you know,
[50:12] research of it in the background, see if
[50:14] there's something that can be fixed, and
[50:15] if it can't, then I'll be more than
[50:17] happy to bring it to the dais.
[50:19] >> Okay.
[50:21] >> Can we reopen the public hearing?
[50:23] >> Can another council member speak first?
[50:25] >> Yeah.
[50:25] >> I personally think
[50:26] >> And and Mayor, if you're going to reopen
[50:27] the public hearing, I would just speak
[50:29] cautious to that because uh we can't
[50:31] open and close public comment and public
[50:33] hearing just arbitrarily
[50:34] >> I got
[50:35] >> and someone wants to because at some
[50:36] point we're going to have to say no to
[50:37] somebody,
[50:38] >> Exactly. They're going to say
[50:39] >> And you know, so we just have to be
[50:41] careful with that.
[50:42] >> I get it.
[50:43] >> Um Councilman Kay.
[50:45] >> I personally think the statements that
[50:47] you just made were actually a lot more
[50:48] divisive than running a 218 vote for
[50:50] something that a member of a community
[50:51] wanted. You know as well as I do, with
[50:54] the initiation of Prop 13, it limited
[50:56] the tax dollars that were there to
[50:57] provide for park services, water
[50:59] services, lighting services, general
[51:01] upkeep, and that's why LLMDs, LMDs, all
[51:05] of them were created in the first place.
[51:07] They weren't created just to that you
[51:08] had all these special benefits over
[51:10] every other neighborhood. It was so that
[51:12] it could support the things that were
[51:13] being put into that development as it
[51:14] was being built, and you know that as
[51:16] well as I do.
[51:18] Your backstop, that was about the only
[51:19] interesting point that you had there as
[51:21] to something that yeah, if there wasn't
[51:23] a 218 vote for it, I don't believe that
[51:24] we should be able to charge that LLMD.
[51:26] Aside from that, I think that you know
[51:27] exactly why these fees are charged, why
[51:30] all of these things, why they're listed
[51:31] the way that they are, including street
[51:33] sweeping services. Every one of those
[51:35] has to be accounted for as these
[51:36] neighborhoods are built, otherwise there
[51:38] is no way to finance them. They come
[51:40] directly out of the general fund or like
[51:42] I said, Prop 13 made it impossible for
[51:45] us to continue enough tax revenue to
[51:46] support those items, it would bankrupt
[51:48] the city and that's why those things
[51:50] came to be. You know that. I don't
[51:52] appreciate you acting like you or you're
[51:54] unaware of this and you think that this
[51:55] is all special stuff. It's not special
[51:57] stuff. That's how we have to run a city.
[51:59] >> I I understand that Council Member King
[52:01] and I respect your opinion. My My
[52:03] question now is
[52:07] What is What is the special benefit? And
[52:10] that's That's what I'm struggling with.
[52:11] >> Okay, the special benefit is lights on.
[52:14] >> Okay.
[52:14] >> Watering their their parks, taking care
[52:16] of their grass, taking care of their
[52:17] tree services, the benefits that are all
[52:19] outlined in those documents. It is all
[52:21] spelled out. This is what we are going
[52:23] to be paying for with the revenue that
[52:24] we are going to be taking collecting
[52:26] with your fees. The special benefits are
[52:29] the lights will shut off, the wa- water
[52:31] will stop running, the grass will stop
[52:32] growing, the trees will stop being
[52:34] trimmed. All of it is outlined there.
[52:35] When the wall falls down, that's your
[52:37] wall and that's your problem. That's
[52:39] what would happen if we charge
[52:40] accordingly.
[52:40] >> Okay.
[52:43] >> [clears throat]
[52:43] >> If there is any further questions, I
[52:44] think probably best thing to do is get
[52:47] with city manager and kind of walk
[52:49] through it. And then if there's still
[52:51] concern, then then bring it back.
[52:53] >> Absolutely.
[52:54] >> I think in the meantime, I think um
[52:57] cuz there's difference between general
[52:59] use and special use, I get what you're
[53:00] saying. But I also um
[53:03] think what Councilman King is saying is,
[53:06] you know, spot-on. So, I think probably
[53:09] talk to the city manager,
[53:11] get on the same page and if there's an
[53:12] issue, then bring it back.
[53:14] >> May- maybe we need to have a town hall
[53:15] and explain how it is that that LMDs
[53:17] came to be and and where these fees come
[53:19] from. I I don't know.
[53:20] Uh but, you know, we we know full well
[53:22] why it is that we charge the things that
[53:24] we charge for. Like I said, your
[53:26] backstop statement was about the only
[53:28] one that does actually spark my interest
[53:29] as that is something that if they didn't
[53:31] uh
[53:32] vo- voted in, the backstop's in in the
[53:34] place, the city should be taking care of
[53:36] any repair cost for them. We should not
[53:37] be billing the residents for it. Do we
[53:40] fix the backstop this year?
[53:42] >> Yes, well it was charged in 25, 26.
[53:45] >> It was charged in
[53:45] >> The the repair the backstop.
[53:48] >> So I mean that that is something that
[53:50] should be addressed, you know,
[53:51] individually and probably before we both
[53:53] bought this in. Because
[53:54] I agree with you. If they didn't vote it
[53:56] in as a 218 vote, we installed it as a
[53:58] city or a private entity, one of you
[54:01] know, Lions Club or etc. whatever it was
[54:02] that that put it in,
[54:04] then they are not financially
[54:05] responsible to pay for that. But aside
[54:07] from that, all of the rest of that was a
[54:09] whole bunch of hubbub about nothing when
[54:11] you know, we know why it is that we
[54:13] charge these fees and why they have to
[54:14] be paid.
[54:16] >> Um Pro Tem? [clears throat]
[54:17] >> Uh yeah, I have a couple of comments. I
[54:20] don't entirely disagree with Council
[54:21] Stroman. Uh some there are in the
[54:24] language in the engineer's report uh
[54:26] general benefits and special benefits
[54:28] and these LLMDs are supposed to have
[54:29] special benefits. They do.
[54:32] Uh we do have the parks and the
[54:34] playgrounds that are upgraded, they are
[54:36] upkept, they are repaired much more
[54:39] often. Um for example, Sanchez was
[54:42] dilapidated, they were it was not in the
[54:43] LLMD and to get that replaced, we had
[54:48] donations from Lions Club. They redid
[54:50] that whole park and and that was how we
[54:52] actually got the funds to do so.
[54:54] Uh in the LLMDs, those those playgrounds
[54:56] get
[54:58] um
[54:58] repaired.
[55:00] Uh and may or may not make choices on
[55:03] what trees go in when there's an LLMD
[55:05] and when there is not. So that there are
[55:07] those choices, there are special
[55:08] benefits.
[55:10] Do I think street sweeping is one of
[55:11] them? Probably not. That could be a
[55:13] discussion. There are here and there
[55:15] what is general, what is special. So um
[55:17] don't entirely disagree with you,
[55:19] Council Stroman. Uh as for the
[55:21] backstops,
[55:22] if I remember correctly, cuz I think I
[55:24] was on recreation commission at the
[55:26] time,
[55:27] um those were a COVID
[55:29] uh expense that we had COVID monies for
[55:32] and then that was to separate so that
[55:35] kids have more places to play so they
[55:37] weren't just ball collecting at our one
[55:40] park that has baseball fields. So, I
[55:43] think that was we used to some of our
[55:44] code if if you can correct me if I'm
[55:47] wrong, but I do believe we put in extra
[55:49] backstops at extra parks so that we had
[55:52] more play space spread out. Is that
[55:55] >> I can't give you I can't give you
[55:56] comments on the funding. I'm just asked
[55:58] to put in a backstop and we put in
[56:00] backstop.
[56:00] >> But it was around that time period, is
[56:02] that correct? Yeah, so I'm
[56:04] that is how the backstops came to be and
[56:07] why the backstops came to be and why we
[56:09] weren't waiting for a vote on it and it
[56:10] was minimal cost for those metal
[56:13] backstops as well. So, that's how they
[56:15] got there, why why there was not a pause
[56:17] on those.
[56:18] >> Well, my my statement is just that if we
[56:19] put it in as a city and we didn't do a
[56:21] 218 vote on it at the time, we can't
[56:23] charge them for repairs on it now. 100%
[56:26] and I think that our legal professional
[56:28] would agree with that.
[56:30] >> If it's not listed as an improvement in
[56:33] the original formation documents,
[56:35] um then yeah, I would I would agree with
[56:38] it. I but I I can't opine because I
[56:39] don't have it I don't know.
[56:41] >> Right. But if it that's
[56:41] >> No, no, we have that information.
[56:42] >> If that's the case, if your major
[56:44] premise is true, then yeah, then that's
[56:47] true.
[56:47] >> Why don't we [clears throat]
[56:49] uh research that and see where we're at
[56:52] there
[56:53] and then um
[56:55] in the meantime, if we do find out that
[56:57] there's validity to it, then
[57:00] um I don't know if there's any way we
[57:01] can retroactively
[57:03] you know, make that right.
[57:05] >> I'm sure there could be a credit or
[57:06] something in for the future year. I we have to get this to the audit
[57:09] controller's office
[57:11] tonight. So, if we don't, then we're
[57:13] going to miss a whole year's worth of
[57:14] revenue.
[57:15] So, I would not I I
[57:18] until we can investigate that with
[57:20] precision and double-check all of all of
[57:23] the facts to make sure it's true, I
[57:25] recommend that you levy the assessment
[57:27] tonight and then we can always apply
[57:28] some kind of credit or something against
[57:30] it difference for the next for the next
[57:32] tax year.
[57:34] >> I think that seems fair.
[57:36] But, Mr. Mayor, can I make one more
[57:38] statement?
[57:39] Um I really appreciate
[57:41] your feedback, Council Member Kay.
[57:44] My point was that
[57:47] yes, we're up against a deadline. We
[57:49] cannot
[57:51] just stop a whole year's of assessments
[57:54] moving forward. Totally respect that. My
[57:56] point was that
[57:58] I think we I mean from from what we're
[58:01] seeing in these engineers' report to
[58:03] what we used to see 4 years ago is night
[58:06] and day different. It's completely
[58:07] different. All of the bills are
[58:09] itemized. Everything's listed out. We
[58:11] know exactly where the funds are going.
[58:13] My point is that
[58:16] I just would like us to and
[58:18] the four of you don't have to do it. I I
[58:20] will take on this responsibility. All
[58:23] I'm saying is that
[58:26] we want to make sure that we are doing
[58:29] right by our residents and ensuring that
[58:32] these costs are truly a special benefit.
[58:35] >> I think uh
[58:37] I think that uh
[58:39] you know, we're kind of beating a dead
[58:41] horse here. I think honestly what we
[58:43] needed need to do is just research it.
[58:46] >> Yep.
[58:47] >> I have no [clears throat] issue with
[58:48] doing obviously do right by the
[58:50] community. That's the thing why we're
[58:52] all up here.
[58:53] Um and if you find some something that
[58:55] is genuinely an issue, bring it we bring
[58:57] it back. But I think right now I think
[58:59] we need to realize you know
[59:03] that
[59:05] both of you everyone's made their
[59:06] statement except for mainly Councilman
[59:08] Ogle.
[59:09] >> I think anything to say at this point
[59:11] would be redundant. I think all the
[59:12] points were covered.
[59:13] >> Okay. So
[59:16] I would humor a motion.
[59:18] >> I'll just state that we as a city have
[59:20] been known in historically to lower
[59:23] assessments after realizing we have
[59:26] assessed higher and we do lower in
[59:29] following years. So, historically we
[59:31] have set a precedent to be able to go
[59:33] back, look at that, and then lower those
[59:35] assessments in the future in the
[59:37] following years. So,
[59:39] we'll go ahead and and talk to staff in
[59:41] the future and we'll just see what what
[59:43] we can find in those numbers.
[59:45] >> Okay.
[59:46] Do we have a motion on this?
[59:48] >> Sure, I'll make a motion. Mr. Mayor, I'd
[59:51] like to motion to adopt resolution
[59:52] number XX26 confirming the engineer's
[59:54] reports ordering a levy of assessments
[59:56] for fiscal year 2026-27 for the Bella
[59:58] Terra Estates Landscape Maintenance
[1:00:00] District number 01-1, Estates Benefit
[1:00:03] Assessment District number 06-1, Estates
[1:00:06] Landscape and Lighting Maintenance
[1:00:07] District number number 06-1,
[1:00:10] Sunrise Terrace Landscape Maintenance District number 96-1, and
[1:00:14] Westwood Country Landscape and Lighting
[1:00:16] Maintenance District number 02-1,
[1:00:20] and
[1:00:21] uh investigate the potential over gym
[1:00:25] cost for the backstop and issue a refund
[1:00:29] if necessary.
[1:00:30] >> Any second on that?
[1:00:32] >> I'll second.
[1:00:33] >> Okay. All in favor, say aye.
[1:00:34] >> Aye.
[1:00:35] >> All opposed, say nay. Okay.
[1:00:38] On to number eight. Um city manager,
[1:00:45] » Thank you, Mayor.
[1:00:50] So, the item before you is
[1:00:54] to consider a software program that the
[1:00:57] city is looking at in in this particular
[1:00:59] case, it's
[1:01:01] up to a 7-year agreement. Um we get
[1:01:04] pricing for 7 years. It's not
[1:01:05] necessarily
[1:01:07] we're not bound necessarily by the 7
[1:01:10] years. But,
[1:01:11] I will get into the introduction and
[1:01:15] then I'll turn it over to Trevin and the
[1:01:17] team to walk through the rest.
[1:01:20] >> [gasps]
[1:01:21] >> Um so, the new management team over the
[1:01:24] last three years, um, our efforts have
[1:01:27] been to strive to implement council
[1:01:29] direction, of course, uh, to take steps
[1:01:32] to becoming a more professional
[1:01:34] organization,
[1:01:35] um, to improve customer service and
[1:01:38] customer satisfaction has been has has
[1:01:40] been, um,
[1:01:43] feedback provided to us and to make it
[1:01:46] easier for businesses to do business in
[1:01:48] town. And this is the council's new, um,
[1:01:50] focus on on economic development.
[1:01:53] We are, of course, continuing to work on
[1:01:56] all of those goals, um, and we, I think,
[1:01:58] make strides each year, uh, but continue
[1:02:01] to work on it.
[1:02:03] Approximately three years ago, um,
[1:02:06] the past council, largely made up of the
[1:02:08] same individuals, um, challenged staff
[1:02:11] to make headway on review of business
[1:02:14] licenses and home ox. Those were taking
[1:02:16] between three and seven days. Um, we
[1:02:19] have cut that down in three years to one
[1:02:22] day in every single instance, pretty
[1:02:24] much.
[1:02:25] Um, [snorts]
[1:02:27] 99.999%
[1:02:30] Um, and we also, because of the reduced
[1:02:32] review time, we reduced the home ox
[1:02:35] permit cost about 50% at that time. So,
[1:02:38] we were charging less.
[1:02:40] So, this was the kind of first foray
[1:02:42] into looking at how to improve the
[1:02:44] process, how to streamline it a bit,
[1:02:47] and,
[1:02:47] um, it's been successful so far.
[1:02:50] >> [clears throat]
[1:02:51] >> Then, as we, um,
[1:02:55] adopted the strategic plan, the
[1:02:57] council's strategic plan that looked at
[1:02:59] economic development, as we formed the
[1:03:01] economic development committee,
[1:03:04] and as we started to draft the economic
[1:03:06] development strategic plan,
[1:03:08] um,
[1:03:09] much of the conversation in both of
[1:03:11] those circles, the EDC, the economic
[1:03:14] development committee, and the economic
[1:03:16] development strategic plan have focused
[1:03:18] on how to streamline and and make the
[1:03:21] process smoother for businesses to come
[1:03:24] in to renew their business, for home
[1:03:25] owners to to come in.
[1:03:28] And so software is is one such tool, of
[1:03:31] course, to help to streamline, to take
[1:03:34] some of the human error and the human
[1:03:36] processing where a small staff, we have
[1:03:38] outages sometimes, illnesses, vacations,
[1:03:40] those types of things.
[1:03:42] And so as we were looking
[1:03:44] at various software programs, we came
[1:03:47] across OpenGov.
[1:03:50] And we view it as as one of the best out
[1:03:54] there for sure.
[1:03:56] Now, what we recognize is there's a cost
[1:03:59] associated with this effort.
[1:04:02] Um and we bring this to the council
[1:04:06] with that background that we are looking
[1:04:10] to make it more
[1:04:12] professional organization, to streamline
[1:04:14] the process, to improve customer service
[1:04:16] specifically for businesses.
[1:04:21] Um and so with that, I will turn it over
[1:04:23] to Trevin and the team to kind of walk
[1:04:26] through the specifics of the OpenGov
[1:04:28] program, what it does, what it doesn't
[1:04:31] do. And in that presentation, we'll walk
[1:04:34] through the cost and some of our ideas
[1:04:37] that we have to offset some of the cost
[1:04:39] so there's not a as large of a general
[1:04:42] fund subsidy.
[1:04:44] >> Thank you, city manager. And I'll I'll dovetail right into the history on
[1:04:48] that. As soon as I came on board, one of
[1:04:50] my major tasks was developing an
[1:04:52] economic development strategic plan.
[1:04:54] That was going to take some time. We
[1:04:55] knew it was going to take about a year
[1:04:57] to do that. So we worked with the
[1:04:59] economic development committee to create
[1:05:01] an interim economic development
[1:05:03] strategic plan or a work plan that
[1:05:05] included the small business grants that
[1:05:08] you're probably more familiar with, but
[1:05:10] it also included a couple of other
[1:05:12] items. We explored with you the concept
[1:05:14] of a small business incubator or a
[1:05:16] rentable office space in city hall, and
[1:05:19] that had its drawbacks and we didn't
[1:05:20] pursue that. One of the other items that
[1:05:22] was on that short list that was approved
[1:05:24] was
[1:05:25] looking at
[1:05:26] a permitting system.
[1:05:28] And so that's where the context of this
[1:05:30] came in and over the past year we've had
[1:05:32] other hot button priorities for economic
[1:05:34] development like the grant program, but
[1:05:36] staff continued to poke and look at
[1:05:38] different opportunities to have a more
[1:05:41] modern system that can give our staff
[1:05:43] the tools they need to be
[1:05:45] immediately available for customers and
[1:05:47] immediately responsive to customers as
[1:05:49] they expect in a digital age. So that
[1:05:52] led us to looking at our current
[1:05:54] software providers to see if we could
[1:05:55] leverage something that we already have
[1:05:58] to provide services to our customers and
[1:05:59] our citizens such as Tyler and Numio and
[1:06:04] HDL. Those are some of our providers
[1:06:06] that we've used in the past for
[1:06:07] different services and they had a
[1:06:09] solution for permitting which we
[1:06:11] reviewed and looked at, but they didn't
[1:06:13] necessarily meet what we needed. We
[1:06:15] looked at other governments nearby to
[1:06:17] see what they were using
[1:06:19] which included ClearGov and BlueDot, but
[1:06:23] also those didn't really include
[1:06:25] everything that we needed. They just had
[1:06:26] components of what we needed. So we
[1:06:28] looked at multiple platforms.
[1:06:31] We went through demonstrations on each
[1:06:33] product. We looked at references and we
[1:06:35] compared costs, and OpenGov was really
[1:06:38] the only one that offered pretty much
[1:06:40] everything that we were looking for. A
[1:06:41] unified permitting and licensing system,
[1:06:44] integrated mobile inspections, GIS and
[1:06:46] master address integration, an automatic
[1:06:50] state contractor license verification.
[1:06:52] So if something someone's applying for a
[1:06:54] license, they also need to show us their
[1:06:56] state license. This does that
[1:06:57] automatically for us. It frees up staff
[1:07:00] from having to do that back end office
[1:07:01] work so that we can spend more time at
[1:07:03] the front counter and spend more more
[1:07:05] with customers.
[1:07:07] It's also native to the Stripe payment
[1:07:10] processing.
[1:07:11] Um
[1:07:12] and [clears throat] so as we started
[1:07:13] going through and evaluating our
[1:07:14] options, we landed on OpenGov. We began
[1:07:18] discussions with them and they were able
[1:07:20] to provide us a significantly discounted
[1:07:23] price given the size of the community
[1:07:25] and um providing a longer-term contract.
[1:07:28] Um we are uh fortunate we have a
[1:07:30] representative from OpenGov uh with us
[1:07:32] tonight in the audience. I'm going to
[1:07:33] invite Arty up and he's going to walk
[1:07:36] through how the software works so that
[1:07:38] you can see in um
[1:07:39] on the screen. I'll I'll uh pull it up
[1:07:41] on the screen and give Arty the clicker
[1:07:43] um so that he can go ahead and click
[1:07:45] through the presentation for you and
[1:07:46] you'll be able to see it up there.
[1:07:48] >> Um excuse me, was it Ar- Arty?
[1:07:50] >> Arty, yeah.
[1:07:51] >> Arty, okay, like Marty with a without
[1:07:53] the M.
[1:07:53] >> Yeah, it's a it's a nickname for Arthur.
[1:07:55] >> Okay, got you.
[1:07:57] >> Council members, thank you for having me
[1:07:59] here today and um I appreciate your
[1:08:00] time. Uh like I said, my name's Arty
[1:08:02] Hazelton and I'm the OpenGov
[1:08:05] representative. Um and I'm here to
[1:08:06] answer any questions related to OpenGov
[1:08:09] uh and you know, dive into the specifics
[1:08:11] of the actual software. Um so I can be
[1:08:13] your technical resource as well. Um
[1:08:16] let's see.
[1:08:17] So to give you just an overview of
[1:08:19] OpenGov, um we are a software company
[1:08:23] that's purpose-built for local
[1:08:25] government. So we only work with cities,
[1:08:27] towns, villages, counties, boroughs,
[1:08:31] what have you.
[1:08:32] Um
[1:08:32] but we have a lot of experience working
[1:08:34] with
[1:08:35] really small agencies um like Escalon.
[1:08:38] And so across the country and across our
[1:08:40] entire product portfolio, we do partner
[1:08:43] with over 2,000 governments. Um
[1:08:45] specifically the permitting and
[1:08:47] licensing product that we're discussing
[1:08:49] today, uh there are over 700 partners
[1:08:51] across the country.
[1:08:52] Uh in the state of California, there's
[1:08:54] over 60 and then if we even zoom in
[1:08:56] closer, um City of Ripon and City of
[1:09:00] Oakdale are also both uh OpenGov
[1:09:02] permitting and licensing customers.
[1:09:04] So we have a lot of experience across
[1:09:06] the country as well as within the area
[1:09:08] as well.
[1:09:11] So I'm going to summarize instead of
[1:09:19] going through every single one of these
[1:09:20] bullet points, but the benefits to
[1:09:23] working with OpenGov is twofold. So on
[1:09:26] one side we have quite a bit of
[1:09:28] efficiencies for staff and time saving
[1:09:31] for staff. And one thing that I want to
[1:09:34] mention is for an agency like Escalon
[1:09:36] that's moving off of no system at all or
[1:09:38] a paper based system.
[1:09:40] As a part of the implementation we're
[1:09:42] actually going to be
[1:09:43] creating a standardized workflow or
[1:09:45] process for
[1:09:48] you know, handling permits. And so with
[1:09:51] that, once you do have a standardized
[1:09:53] process, there's a lot of automated
[1:09:54] features within the system
[1:09:56] that will actually save quite a bit of
[1:09:58] time for staff. For example,
[1:10:01] coordinating multi-departmental review.
[1:10:03] This is all done automatically in the
[1:10:05] system.
[1:10:06] Scheduling inspections is automatic.
[1:10:09] Calculating fees and charging fees is
[1:10:11] automated as well. And there's a number
[1:10:13] of other features within the system that
[1:10:14] we'll go through
[1:10:16] in this presentation. But a lot of time
[1:10:18] savings for staff
[1:10:20] and creating efficiencies there. On the
[1:10:22] other side and from a customer service
[1:10:24] perspective there's actually a lot of
[1:10:26] benefit for constituents or
[1:10:29] you know, the applicants that are going
[1:10:30] to be using the actual online permit
[1:10:32] portal. For one it provides a
[1:10:35] centralized location for everything
[1:10:38] permit and license related. And I
[1:10:40] actually have a slide following this
[1:10:42] that will show you what that sort of
[1:10:43] looks like.
[1:10:44] But on top of that it provides a lot of
[1:10:46] transparency. So you know, staff will
[1:10:49] not have to field as many calls or
[1:10:50] emails about hey, where is this permit
[1:10:53] or what's the status on this permit?
[1:10:54] They're actually able to go onto the
[1:10:55] portal
[1:10:57] and look at it by themselves.
[1:10:59] And then another item that's actually
[1:11:01] not on this list is the fact that both
[1:11:03] the Ripon and Oakdale are using this
[1:11:05] permitting system. So for contractors
[1:11:08] that are doing business across all three
[1:11:10] cities, they're going to have a
[1:11:10] consistent experience
[1:11:13] and they'll actually have one unified
[1:11:14] login for all different cities.
[1:11:20] So
[1:11:21] this here is actually a look at the
[1:11:24] public-facing portal
[1:11:27] and as you can see it's a one-stop shop.
[1:11:29] So that means it's a place where
[1:11:30] applicants can apply for permits or
[1:11:33] licenses, pay for fees, track the status
[1:11:36] of the permit, communicate with staff
[1:11:39] members,
[1:11:40] search up historical permit data
[1:11:44] for any specific address
[1:11:46] and it's also designed for both
[1:11:48] frequent flyers as well as first-time
[1:11:51] permit applicants.
[1:11:52] As you can see here, there's a search
[1:11:54] bar front and center. So for someone who
[1:11:56] doesn't know the permit process that
[1:11:58] well, they can look up something like,
[1:11:59] "Hey,
[1:12:00] um
[1:12:01] what permits do I need for building an
[1:12:03] ADU in my backyard?" And the system will
[1:12:06] actually show you, "Hey, XYZ permits"
[1:12:08] and will let you apply for it just right
[1:12:10] there.
[1:12:14] And so that's the public portal, but you
[1:12:17] know, within the staff side, there's
[1:12:19] obviously faster reviews because a lot
[1:12:21] of the process is now automated within
[1:12:22] the system.
[1:12:24] It's a place for both staff and
[1:12:25] applicants to actually communicate and
[1:12:28] collaborate on different projects that
[1:12:30] they're working on.
[1:12:31] And then one item as well as the city's
[1:12:33] going to have full control of the
[1:12:34] system.
[1:12:35] And when you look at other vendors
[1:12:37] within this space, this is actually a
[1:12:38] big differentiator with OpenGov
[1:12:41] because if, you know, for example with
[1:12:43] another system, if you wanted to
[1:12:45] change the application fields or change
[1:12:48] the workflow steps or update the fee
[1:12:50] schedule,
[1:12:51] Um will actually require going to the
[1:12:52] vendor having IT do that for you. But
[1:12:55] with OpenGov, city staff are very easily
[1:12:57] able to make those changes on their own.
[1:13:02] Just to show you more of the actual
[1:13:03] system. This is also on the
[1:13:04] public-facing side. Um and this is what
[1:13:07] it looks like once someone submits an
[1:13:09] application. But as you can see on the
[1:13:11] left-hand side here, there's actually a
[1:13:12] status tracker that shows in real time
[1:13:15] where the permit's at. So, um if an
[1:13:18] applicant wants to, you know, instead of
[1:13:19] calling into the city, they can actually
[1:13:21] just go online and check and see where
[1:13:23] it's at.
[1:13:26] This is um an internal feature, but
[1:13:28] there's a built-in fee calculator. So,
[1:13:31] city staff are able to and as a part of
[1:13:32] the implementation, um set up uh a fee
[1:13:36] schedule with different rules. And just
[1:13:38] using this, you know, applicants are
[1:13:41] able to apply for permits and know
[1:13:43] exactly what they're paying for. Um
[1:13:46] and it saves quite a bit of time for
[1:13:47] both staff and applicants.
[1:13:50] This is also another internal look, um
[1:13:52] but when it comes to
[1:13:54] multi-departmental review where you have
[1:13:56] different departments working on uh the
[1:13:58] review process for a permit, they're
[1:14:00] able to see in real time what department
[1:14:03] we're waiting on. Um so, we can see here
[1:14:05] building has already approved their
[1:14:07] portion, but we're waiting on public
[1:14:09] works. And even within the system,
[1:14:11] you're able to message other departments
[1:14:13] and say, "Hey, John Doe and and public
[1:14:16] works, can you please take a look at
[1:14:17] this when you get a chance?" Um so, it's
[1:14:19] a centralized location for
[1:14:21] everything that you have to do for the
[1:14:23] actual permit.
[1:14:25] And then finally, um another benefit is
[1:14:28] the reporting
[1:14:30] uh and the dashboards that you're able
[1:14:31] to create on your own. [clears throat]
[1:14:33] Um we actually find with other agencies
[1:14:35] that they will give uh council members a
[1:14:39] login to OpenGov, so they can actually
[1:14:40] see dashboards and check, "Hey, you
[1:14:43] know, what's the permit revenue this
[1:14:44] year? Or how many building permits have
[1:14:46] we issued so far?
[1:14:48] But these are just some of the benefits
[1:14:50] to to OpenGov and
[1:14:52] uh
[1:14:52] that's the end of my presentation. If
[1:14:53] you guys have any questions, please let
[1:14:55] me know.
[1:14:56] >> Thank you, Ardy. I have a few more
[1:14:58] unless you have questions directly for
[1:14:59] Ardy. I'm just going to go over the cost
[1:15:01] for you.
[1:15:02] >> Go for it.
[1:15:02] >> Okay. So, thank you, Ardy. I appreciate
[1:15:04] it. Um wanted to touch on uh the cost.
[1:15:08] So, now that you see what the software
[1:15:11] is, um how it functions, you have a much
[1:15:13] better understanding in your mind's eye
[1:15:15] of how staff would be using it. Um staff
[1:15:18] has worked with Ardy and his team on
[1:15:20] coming up with a cost structure that
[1:15:23] might work really well for the city. Um
[1:15:26] it's a 7-year contract and the first
[1:15:28] year is comprised of primarily setting
[1:15:31] up the software. Now, typically this
[1:15:33] would be a cost above and beyond the
[1:15:35] contract cost for the subscription, but
[1:15:37] OpenGov has essentially discounted the
[1:15:41] price of the software by 70% and um is
[1:15:44] also providing a lot of their staff time
[1:15:47] to get the software up and running for
[1:15:49] the implementation component. Um so,
[1:15:51] this will save us considerably and will
[1:15:53] allow us to hit the ground running and
[1:15:55] get their help to implement it and
[1:15:57] provide um immediate uh service to the
[1:16:00] public and immediate asset to the
[1:16:02] public. Um and so, the OpenGov platform,
[1:16:06] it's intuitive for both customers and
[1:16:08] staff. It's widely used by other
[1:16:09] agencies um and its pricing is fully
[1:16:13] pre-competed through the Sourcewell
[1:16:15] cooperative purchasing program. That's
[1:16:17] something that I also um want to make
[1:16:19] sure that's clear and transparent on. In
[1:16:21] any purchase that we do in city hall, we
[1:16:23] make sure that it's competitively bid.
[1:16:25] There are opportunities where um these
[1:16:29] there have they have there are already
[1:16:31] um competitive bids that are out there
[1:16:33] and they're already results. So, we're
[1:16:35] in a sense piggybacking on Sourcewell's
[1:16:38] competitively bid process to get the
[1:16:40] discounted rate or the prebid rate. On
[1:16:43] top of that, we're getting the 70%
[1:16:45] discount for the first year and then the
[1:16:47] 40% annual discount there
[1:16:50] moving forward every year on top of the
[1:16:53] prebid price. So, we're getting a
[1:16:55] considerable deal on this software
[1:16:58] program.
[1:16:59] It is a software as service agreement
[1:17:02] and so we use it year by year and so
[1:17:04] that's how the the contract is set up.
[1:17:06] Now, to support the cost of the
[1:17:08] software, we wanted to try and be
[1:17:10] creative in not putting all of the
[1:17:12] burden on general fund and competing
[1:17:14] with other departments
[1:17:15] other services
[1:17:17] within the city for this. So, we looked
[1:17:19] at a way to slowly escalate our building
[1:17:23] and development permit fees so that we
[1:17:25] can slowly absorb the cost of this
[1:17:27] system and be able to provide better
[1:17:29] services to our community. And so,
[1:17:31] that's what you see in the chart in the
[1:17:32] fiscal impact is you see the explanation
[1:17:35] of the costs and then you see the slow
[1:17:37] ramp up year by year
[1:17:39] where we projected what it would look
[1:17:41] like if we did a 3% to our building fees
[1:17:43] and we took our
[1:17:45] last year's fees to be able to calculate
[1:17:48] those those results.
[1:17:52] Yes, and I can put that on the screen.
[1:17:53] So, that that concludes my discussion of
[1:17:55] the fiscal impacts. Happy to answer
[1:17:57] questions. Are you still here? Happy to
[1:17:59] answer questions as well and I'll put it
[1:18:00] up on the screen for the public.
[1:18:04] » [clears throat]
[1:18:06] >> Any questions up here?
[1:18:08] >> Mr. Mayor, I have a couple.
[1:18:09] >> Yeah.
[1:18:09] >> At least one.
[1:18:10] >> Before
[1:18:11] >> So,
[1:18:12] I I did want to say thanks for
[1:18:13] explaining the ROI cuz that was my my
[1:18:15] biggest concern, right? How do we get
[1:18:17] our money back? I think you did a good
[1:18:18] job of explaining
[1:18:20] how we're able to cover those costs over
[1:18:23] the full term. So, I guess that leaves
[1:18:25] my my question to be for
[1:18:27] >> Yeah, for Arty or for
[1:18:29] >> Uh this is
[1:18:30] >> Yeah, for Trevin, yeah.
[1:18:32] >> Or it could potentially be for Arty as
[1:18:33] well, but
[1:18:34] uh
[1:18:35] while I I I definitely appreciate uh a
[1:18:38] system in place for licensing and
[1:18:40] permitting. Uh you know, I brought that
[1:18:42] to council, you know, several years ago,
[1:18:44] and you guys have done a great job with
[1:18:45] that to see to So, to see that we're
[1:18:46] furthering that is encouraging to me.
[1:18:50] But,
[1:18:51] uh you know,
[1:18:52] while the majority of us are, you know,
[1:18:54] transitioning to digital formats, there is still a percentage of people
[1:18:58] who aren't. So, will applicants still be
[1:19:00] able to come in and process over the
[1:19:02] counter if they're not tech-friendly?
[1:19:05] >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that wouldn't
[1:19:07] change at all. The goal is to be able to
[1:19:09] provide more face time with the public
[1:19:11] and have staff more available instead of
[1:19:13] working on back office tasks of routing
[1:19:15] paperwork.
[1:19:17] >> No, I I I think it looks great. Thank
[1:19:18] you.
[1:19:20] >> Any other questions up here?
[1:19:23] Just a brief one.
[1:19:24] Um
[1:19:26] So, uh confirming I when I talked to the
[1:19:30] city manager about this item, he noted
[1:19:32] that um
[1:19:35] we're not locked into a full 7-year
[1:19:37] contract, and we can evaluate
[1:19:40] um
[1:19:41] after year one if we're truly get
[1:19:44] getting a return on our our investment
[1:19:46] moving forward.
[1:19:47] Uh I guess my question is to you,
[1:19:51] how can we confirm that yes, we are
[1:19:55] freeing up staff time? How are we uh
[1:19:58] without losing that
[1:20:00] um
[1:20:02] customer-centric focus? Uh as the city
[1:20:04] manager alluded to, we took the
[1:20:07] businesses business licensing down from
[1:20:10] 3 to 7 days to 1 day.
[1:20:13] I want to make sure that we're remain
[1:20:15] still maintaining those customer service
[1:20:17] levels
[1:20:18] um
[1:20:18] moving forward. So,
[1:20:21] how how can we track that to make sure
[1:20:23] that we're not losing that
[1:20:25] customer-centric feel by going to an
[1:20:28] online service?
[1:20:31] >> I guess
[1:20:32] We will [clears throat] still track it
[1:20:33] the same way. So, right now we track our
[1:20:35] the timeline for closing out new
[1:20:38] business license applications and
[1:20:39] processing them. And so, we'd still have
[1:20:42] that as staff to be able to track that.
[1:20:44] wouldn't change.
[1:20:46] >> Yeah.
[1:20:47] >> And I'll just, you know, what I think
[1:20:49] your question is and and Trevin has
[1:20:51] mentioned this.
[1:20:53] There's a lot of back-end
[1:20:56] work to be done processing licenses and
[1:20:59] permits. It is no contact with the
[1:21:02] customer.
[1:21:04] And what we believe this program will do
[1:21:06] is free up that time, so we have more
[1:21:09] time available with the customers.
[1:21:12] So, you know,
[1:21:14] business licenses every year annual
[1:21:16] updates very manual process for us. It
[1:21:19] takes two staff members like, you know,
[1:21:22] the better part of a month to to do some
[1:21:25] of that. So, with a program, we can do
[1:21:28] more of that in a streamlined fashion,
[1:21:30] freeing up that time to be able to
[1:21:32] provide more customer service.
[1:21:35] Um and to your question a little bit, um
[1:21:38] managing a permit or license online
[1:21:40] doesn't preclude us from still helping
[1:21:42] that customer
[1:21:44] uh at the counter and taking in a
[1:21:46] physical copy of the permit and then we
[1:21:49] just process it through the online
[1:21:51] portal therefore
[1:21:53] therefrom.
[1:21:54] Um but, as was mentioned by both Trevin
[1:21:57] and Arty, it gives the customer who
[1:21:59] happens to think of something at 10:00
[1:22:01] at night or on a Saturday the ability to
[1:22:03] look up the status of their permit or
[1:22:05] their license without having to wait
[1:22:08] until Monday or without having to wait
[1:22:10] until, you know, the staff member
[1:22:12] returns from an illness or a vacation or
[1:22:14] something. So, it gives them more
[1:22:16] visibility, more awareness in a digital
[1:22:19] platform
[1:22:20] um
[1:22:21] through this program. But, if they're
[1:22:22] not digitally savvy, they can obviously
[1:22:25] they call the city and and we'll be able
[1:22:27] to help them with that as well.
[1:22:30] » So, [clears throat]
[1:22:31] you're saying that it's not going to
[1:22:32] decrease the physical face-to-face
[1:22:34] handshake conversations
[1:22:37] with the businesses?
[1:22:39] Like, are you going to actively go to
[1:22:41] these businesses and be constantly,
[1:22:43] you know, there? Cuz I think there's a
[1:22:45] lot lot that gets lost in translation
[1:22:48] through digital stuff.
[1:22:49] You know what I'm saying?
[1:22:51] >> Yeah, honestly, it'll decrease it for
[1:22:53] those who don't want the face-to-face
[1:22:55] interaction and it'll increase it for
[1:22:57] those who do. We'll just we'll free up
[1:22:59] more staff time to be able to interact
[1:23:01] with those who do want, but those who do
[1:23:03] this all the time and and kind of know
[1:23:05] the process and want to check it online,
[1:23:07] they're able to do that whenever they
[1:23:09] want.
[1:23:09] >> Can I Can I also add to that? So, staff
[1:23:12] always recommends that we do a
[1:23:14] pre-development meeting or
[1:23:15] pre-application meeting and that
[1:23:17] recommendation wouldn't change. That
[1:23:19] would still be advertised. That would
[1:23:20] still be our preference. We want the
[1:23:23] public and we want the applicant to have
[1:23:25] clarity on what the steps are and we
[1:23:26] want to be aligned with them on what
[1:23:29] their desires and goals are for their
[1:23:30] project and how we can how we can help
[1:23:32] you. So, [clears throat] we would still
[1:23:34] pursue that and that wouldn't that's not
[1:23:36] done through the software. That's done
[1:23:38] through a meeting with staff.
[1:23:40] >> So, I have a couple basic questions
[1:23:42] besides that I was going to ask.
[1:23:44] Um, what's done with the metadata? Are
[1:23:46] you guys selling it off? You
[1:23:49] Do it Does it go to,
[1:23:51] you know, our own little server? Like,
[1:23:53] how does that work?
[1:23:55] Uh, and then the other would be what
[1:23:58] else is on there like as far as arena
[1:24:00] numbers, all that stuff? Is that on that
[1:24:02] website?
[1:24:03] >> Um,
[1:24:04] to answer the first question, no, we
[1:24:06] don't sell your data. It's it's all
[1:24:07] hosted on the cloud, but you own all of
[1:24:09] your data.
[1:24:10] Um, and then could you repeat the second
[1:24:11] question?
[1:24:12] >> I I can answer that.
[1:24:14] >> Got it.
[1:24:14] >> So, the second question for the public
[1:24:15] was arena numbers. I don't see this
[1:24:18] software uh tracking the arena numbers.
[1:24:20] That's still something that will be done
[1:24:22] by staff through um the housing element
[1:24:25] implementation. We'll do by hand.
[1:24:27] >> So no one out in LA can't isn't
[1:24:29] cherry-picking.
[1:24:31] I I just want to make sure I'm clear
[1:24:33] with
[1:24:34] the potential technology as far as how
[1:24:37] it could be abused or not.
[1:24:38] >> Correct. Yeah, this won't report the
[1:24:40] data or provide the data to some
[1:24:42] stranger online.
[1:24:44] So yes, correct.
[1:24:47] >> Yeah.
[1:24:48] Um
[1:24:51] All right.
[1:24:55] that's what I have. Um
[1:24:57] Anyone else up here have questions at
[1:24:59] all?
[1:25:01] No?
[1:25:01] All right. Um we'll take it out to the
[1:25:03] public.
[1:25:05] >> Thank you, Sandy.
[1:25:10] » Okay. Um the presentation was beautiful.
[1:25:13] The the benefits, I understand. I'm
[1:25:16] coming at it from a completely different
[1:25:17] angle. Um
[1:25:19] I'm coming at it from somebody who lives
[1:25:21] within a budget, and so my question is
[1:25:26] probably ignorant. If I buy TurboTax,
[1:25:28] for example, I pay one fee. It doesn't
[1:25:31] matter if I do just mine or if I do 100
[1:25:33] of my neighbors, the fee's the same.
[1:25:37] And the more
[1:25:38] TurboTax sells their software, the more
[1:25:41] money they make. So my question is, if
[1:25:44] it's software,
[1:25:47] the price to me,
[1:25:49] from where I sit,
[1:25:52] goes from 39 to 58,000
[1:25:55] for software.
[1:25:57] So
[1:25:58] I'm
[1:26:00] you know, when software is developed and
[1:26:02] it's there pretty much after software,
[1:26:03] and I understand you're going to have,
[1:26:05] you know, help and and you're going to
[1:26:06] have people that you can call and and
[1:26:08] help you with this, but that's a big
[1:26:10] jump. I mean, if it's the same software,
[1:26:12] why does the price go up? It's
[1:26:14] typically, you know, once something is
[1:26:16] developed, the more customers you get, your money with more customers,
[1:26:19] not you've got a product that now you
[1:26:22] guys like and it's it's, you know,
[1:26:24] supply and demand, I get it, you know,
[1:26:26] and it's and it's and it's what do I
[1:26:28] want to call it? Profit. But
[1:26:31] it's a little it's a little much, it's a
[1:26:34] whole salary. So, to me, I'm looking at
[1:26:36] that and going, "Okay, it's software and
[1:26:38] once you put it in place and you it's going, it's going to run itself."
[1:26:41] And so, why does the cost keep going up
[1:26:43] and why is it so god gum expensive? And
[1:26:46] I appreciate that I can still call
[1:26:47] because I am not a techy person and I
[1:26:49] don't want to do it online. Okay.
[1:26:51] Thanks.
[1:26:53] >> Okay.
[1:26:54] Do we have anybody to answer that
[1:26:55] question?
[1:26:55] >> Yeah, can can somebody Yeah.
[1:26:57] >> Yeah.
[1:26:59] >> I think I could do a half-baked job of
[1:27:01] it, but I'm sure that a professional
[1:27:02] could do a better job.
[1:27:03] >> Yeah. So, so yes, the the pricing does
[1:27:05] increase um 5% year over year. Um and
[1:27:08] the reason for that is
[1:27:11] we provide uh the product enhancements
[1:27:14] to all of our customers at no cost. So,
[1:27:16] I think what you'll see with a lot of
[1:27:17] other vendors is they'll have, you know,
[1:27:19] OpenGov 1.0 and then if you want the
[1:27:22] newest version, you got to pay for the
[1:27:23] upgrade for OpenGov 2.0. With OpenGov,
[1:27:25] you're getting the best um system at all
[1:27:28] times. It's it's constantly improving
[1:27:31] and and we do put a lot of um funding
[1:27:33] into our product development. Um and I
[1:27:35] think I don't know, I think that the
[1:27:37] permitting and licensing product that we
[1:27:38] offer is actually the one that's
[1:27:40] developed the most. Um so, that's the
[1:27:43] reason why there's a a pricing increase.
[1:27:45] >> I would have gone with cloud server
[1:27:46] storage and, you know, all the
[1:27:48] electricity and expense that it takes to
[1:27:50] run all of that increasing over time and
[1:27:52] all that fun stuff as well. Just to add
[1:27:54] to that, Sherry.
[1:27:55] >> Very true.
[1:27:56] >> Okay. Uh any other questions out there?
[1:27:59] >> I just want to make a comment for
[1:28:00] Sherry. On page 389 of the agenda,
[1:28:02] Sherry, kind of down at the bottom,
[1:28:04] you'll be able to see what the estimated
[1:28:05] labor savings is. So, it kind of
[1:28:07] justifies that and and then it talks um
[1:28:10] you know, the the annual operation cost.
[1:28:12] so what that actually saves. And then
[1:28:14] for like a staff member, just just to
[1:28:16] throw it out there, if we were to
[1:28:18] account for a staff members
[1:28:21] um total compensation package, we would
[1:28:23] significantly surpass the numbers that
[1:28:26] are that are put out there.
[1:28:30] Um any other questions out there?
[1:28:33] Online?
[1:28:36] Okay, we'll bring it back to the dais.
[1:28:37] Thank you, Arty.
[1:28:38] >> [snorts]
[1:28:39] >> Um
[1:28:40] I I definitely see where there's
[1:28:41] increasing efficiency, for sure.
[1:28:44] Um
[1:28:46] are we
[1:28:47] got it getting some
[1:28:49] uh reason of thinking we're going to
[1:28:51] have like a significant influx of
[1:28:53] permitting
[1:28:55] that's that's uh going to be a game
[1:28:56] changer that would justify needing this,
[1:28:59] or is it just more
[1:29:01] for a back-end efficiency?
[1:29:05] » I think, you know, this first started
[1:29:07] with economic development and
[1:29:10] potentially more or new businesses
[1:29:13] coming in
[1:29:14] and being able to have a streamlined,
[1:29:17] smooth, professional process
[1:29:20] um to help us in the attraction and
[1:29:23] processing of of new businesses.
[1:29:25] Otherwise, um you know, we don't expect
[1:29:28] an influx. I think we are reacting to
[1:29:31] from 3 years ago until today some of the
[1:29:33] comments we've heard from council
[1:29:35] pre-strategic plan and and
[1:29:36] post-strategic plan.
[1:29:38] Um
[1:29:39] you know, I I would say this is not
[1:29:41] cutting-edge technology, right? This is
[1:29:44] uh sort of a baseline for for many
[1:29:46] cities to move from the kind of paper
[1:29:48] manual process into um
[1:29:51] a program like this. So, no, we don't
[1:29:53] expect an influx, but we do want to help
[1:29:57] um future businesses if we get things
[1:29:59] going like we want to, Liberty Business
[1:30:01] Park in the opportunity zone on on the
[1:30:04] west side of town, those types of
[1:30:05] things.
[1:30:06] >> Okay.
[1:30:06] >> Appreciate the insight. Um
[1:30:09] At the dais, any thoughts or
[1:30:14] >> So, um
[1:30:16] just a very quick thought. And And the
[1:30:18] quick thought is
[1:30:19] uh I'm not against the the 7-year
[1:30:22] agreement. The only thing that I would
[1:30:23] request from staff is um
[1:30:27] maybe a brief annual update just to
[1:30:30] ensure that we're still meeting
[1:30:32] um customer service expectations and
[1:30:35] making sure that we're getting the
[1:30:37] return on investment. And if it's not
[1:30:40] working, uh please be transparent
[1:30:44] >> [snorts]
[1:30:44] >> uh with the council and just say it's
[1:30:47] not working. We need to
[1:30:49] uh cut stop this deal or or
[1:30:53] stop this agree moving forward. Just to
[1:30:55] make sure that we're doing right with
[1:30:58] taxpayer dollars.
[1:31:02] » Um any other thought
[1:31:03] >> Sure.
[1:31:03] >> Sorry. Any other thoughts?
[1:31:05] >> Uh state really quick. Um very beautiful
[1:31:08] presentation. I can see that this can be
[1:31:09] useful in a lot of bigger jurisdictions
[1:31:13] that have a lot more permitting. I wish
[1:31:14] we had that. Uh we were expecting to
[1:31:17] have a huge influx coming in.
[1:31:19] Um I'm personally on a mission to more
[1:31:22] humanize
[1:31:23] uh than automate right now. And I'm just
[1:31:26] kind of going in that direction. So, uh
[1:31:28] that's where I'm coming from right now.
[1:31:30] I'd rather to have humans and
[1:31:32] personalization
[1:31:33] um more than automation and digital uh
[1:31:38] things. I'd much rather on the analog
[1:31:40] run right now. So, that's where I'm at.
[1:31:42] And those are my thoughts.
[1:31:46] » Uh any other thoughts?
[1:31:48] Councilman Negrete, you good?
[1:31:50] >> I'm good. Thank you.
[1:31:52] >> Uh Councilman Kay and Stroman?
[1:31:54] >> I'm good.
[1:31:55] >> [snorts]
[1:31:55] >> Okay. Do we have any Do uh
[1:31:59] >> Are Are a motion on this?
[1:32:00] >> Motions? yeah. Oh, we need to, I think.
[1:32:04] Or do we Yeah.
[1:32:06] >> Uh did we open up to the public?
[1:32:08] >> Yeah, public hearing section. Yeah.
[1:32:10] >> Yeah, that's right.
[1:32:11] >> Mr. Mayor, I'll make a motion to
[1:32:13] [clears throat]
[1:32:14] um
[1:32:16] approve a 7-year agreement with OpenGov.
[1:32:21] Inc. via Virtual Soft with the
[1:32:24] implementation and subscription of a
[1:32:27] digital permitting
[1:32:28] and licensing platform uh with an annual
[1:32:31] check-in with the council to ensure that
[1:32:36] customer service expectations are being
[1:32:38] met from the public.
[1:32:41] And authorize the city manager to
[1:32:43] execute all related documents.
[1:32:47] >> I'll second.
[1:32:48] >> Okay.
[1:32:49] You have a second? All in favor, say
[1:32:51] aye.
[1:32:51] >> Aye.
[1:32:52] All opposed, say nay.
[1:32:53] >> Nay.
[1:32:54] >> Okay.
[1:32:54] >> [clears throat]
[1:32:59] » All right, we'll go on to number nine.
[1:33:05] » Thank you, Council. Uh this this item is
[1:33:08] with
[1:33:10] >> You want to go ahead?
[1:33:11] >> Uh city manager is going to go ahead and
[1:33:12] start this.
[1:33:13] >> Sorry, Travin. I'll just do a
[1:33:15] do an intro here. Um
[1:33:18] I'll turn it over to Travin, and we do
[1:33:20] have uh we have Kim online with Gold
[1:33:22] [clears throat] Back to help answer
[1:33:24] questions. So, this item is an evolution
[1:33:28] of an agenda item request that was made
[1:33:30] back in October 2025
[1:33:32] um by a couple council members, and at
[1:33:35] that the council uh wanted and directed
[1:33:38] staff to really uh share with the
[1:33:40] business community the benefits of
[1:33:43] holding and and having gold um as it had
[1:33:45] just recently um been classified a a
[1:33:48] tier one asset.
[1:33:50] As we were uh kind of exploring that
[1:33:52] further, uh staff, Travin in particular,
[1:33:55] came across Gold Back, and so the
[1:33:57] conversations have have merged a bit
[1:34:01] um in that time. I think uh around the
[1:34:03] first of the year um there was
[1:34:05] presentations to the Economic
[1:34:06] Development Committee from Goldback and
[1:34:08] then to the City Council as well.
[1:34:11] Um to discuss what is basically a
[1:34:14] gold-infused
[1:34:15] currency that they are uh it's a private
[1:34:18] company, privately held, that they are
[1:34:20] um you know, trying to get really up and
[1:34:22] running. Several communities across the
[1:34:24] nation
[1:34:25] um utilize it, several businesses do, um
[1:34:28] but they're they're trying to expand.
[1:34:31] And so um that's kind of the genesis of
[1:34:34] this item. Um back in March, I believe,
[1:34:37] Council directed staff to invite
[1:34:40] Goldback out to Parkfee.
[1:34:42] Um Goldback was at Parkfee. They had a
[1:34:45] relatively successful um venture there.
[1:34:48] They sold tens of thousands of the
[1:34:50] actual product, and they signed up um
[1:34:53] close to two dozen and a little over two
[1:34:55] dozen businesses around the area, not
[1:34:58] just in Escalon. I think about seven
[1:35:00] businesses um are able to accept
[1:35:03] Goldbacks right now in uh Escalon, but
[1:35:06] they were able to sign up about 26
[1:35:08] businesses kind of in the valley, in the
[1:35:09] region.
[1:35:11] And so after the relative success at at
[1:35:14] Parkfee, uh staff started to look into
[1:35:17] becoming a distributor. Um so not one
[1:35:20] that would accept for payment of utility
[1:35:22] bills or something like that, but really
[1:35:24] kind of a centralized hub um for the
[1:35:27] businesses if it really did take off.
[1:35:30] And so with that, I'll I'll turn it over
[1:35:31] to Trevin and and Kim to go through the
[1:35:33] rest of the presentation and answer any
[1:35:35] questions that the council may have.
[1:35:37] >> Yeah, that was a a great uh review of
[1:35:39] the background. Um Jaylen also covered
[1:35:41] um how the distributorship would work.
[1:35:44] Um so uh before you tonight is the
[1:35:46] distributorship agreement. It has
[1:35:48] minimal um purchasing terms.
[1:35:51] Essentially, we'd be
[1:35:53] um
[1:35:54] uh in a nine non-binding contract
[1:35:56] essentially that we would have the
[1:35:57] opportunity to purchase wholesale the
[1:36:00] gold back
[1:36:02] um
[1:36:03] uh tradeable notes from the company
[1:36:05] themselves, and then we would be um
[1:36:08] allowed to sell them here at City Hall.
[1:36:11] Um we There would be a a margin that we
[1:36:13] would get to collect that can offset our
[1:36:16] staff costs for being available to the
[1:36:17] public to distribute those. Um and then
[1:36:20] we would be in order to stay in the in
[1:36:22] the contract and in the partnership, we
[1:36:24] would be required to purchase a minimum
[1:36:26] of 25,000 a year or 2,500 a month. Um
[1:36:30] and so we don't see at this point going
[1:36:33] beyond that. We don't know exactly was
[1:36:36] Park City just a special event that
[1:36:38] everyone felt excited to participate in
[1:36:41] this or is this a constant demand that's
[1:36:44] out there? So, we would uh walk before
[1:36:46] we run, and we would probably just do
[1:36:48] about 2,500 a month, and it would just
[1:36:51] be another thing that we have available
[1:36:52] for the community to help encourage
[1:36:54] shopping local and supporting local and
[1:36:58] um
[1:36:58] creating that small tight-knit community
[1:37:01] where we can uh trade in analog notes
[1:37:04] instead of um credit card payments. Um
[1:37:07] so that's that's the purpose and that's
[1:37:08] the agreement that's that's before you
[1:37:10] for a decision, and then uh Kim is
[1:37:12] online if she has anything to add or if
[1:37:14] you have any questions.
[1:37:15] >> And And I'll just add. So, um
[1:37:17] you know, we asked the question
[1:37:18] directly,
[1:37:20] you know, if it's uh there's not as many
[1:37:23] businesses that are looking to do this,
[1:37:24] what's the requirement? Um they Goldback
[1:37:28] basically said it's an encouragement to hit the minimum thresholds, but if it
[1:37:33] wasn't working for us, there's no um
[1:37:36] specific requirement um to do that. So,
[1:37:39] we can evaluate that over time, but they
[1:37:41] certainly encourage us to to have the
[1:37:44] resources available that's necessary if
[1:37:47] we are going to become a distributor.
[1:37:49] And just to hit home a little bit on on
[1:37:51] the distributor, um
[1:37:54] again, Trevin mentioned this, but we
[1:37:55] would buy the Goldbacks at wholesale,
[1:37:57] sell it, um you know, at at the market
[1:38:00] rate, um which is a little bit of an
[1:38:02] increase, and we'd be a hub for the
[1:38:04] businesses and other community members
[1:38:07] who want to trade, sell, buy, um
[1:38:10] Goldbacks. You could also have an ATM of
[1:38:14] Goldbacks if the uh council was
[1:38:16] interested in that as well. So again,
[1:38:18] you're kind of a a hub for the business
[1:38:20] and resident community who um buy, use,
[1:38:24] trade, and sell these um
[1:38:26] this currency.
[1:38:28] >> Um
[1:38:30] >> [clears throat]
[1:38:30] >> You still got it, Kim.
[1:38:31] >> Okay, Kim.
[1:38:33] you have anything to add to that
[1:38:34] before we
[1:38:36] talk it over?
[1:38:36] >> I I don't. We have Nathan Hallows is on
[1:38:40] the line as well that can speak to the
[1:38:42] details of the distributor agreement, so
[1:38:47] >> Okay. Does he want to go ahead and
[1:38:50] let us know then?
[1:38:50] >> I think we're here just to answer any
[1:38:52] questions you might still have, so
[1:38:55] >> Okay.
[1:38:56] Um any questions up here?
[1:38:59] >> Yeah, just a brief one.
[1:39:00] >> Before I go out to the lobby.
[1:39:00] >> Okay. I'll go first, I think. Please do.
[1:39:03] Go for it, Mr. Rowman.
[1:39:05] >> So, I guess my only question is
[1:39:09] while I I appreciate Goldback coming to
[1:39:11] Park City, um
[1:39:14] if the if we move forward with the
[1:39:15] distributorship,
[1:39:17] uh this is both for for the Goldback
[1:39:19] folks and for Trevin,
[1:39:22] how are we going to
[1:39:24] bring greater awareness to the Goldback
[1:39:27] system for businesses that didn't attend
[1:39:29] Park City or for community members that
[1:39:32] didn't
[1:39:33] that don't know about Park City
[1:39:36] or didn't don't know about Goldback. I
[1:39:38] mean, is there going to be an education
[1:39:40] process? Are we going to introduce this
[1:39:43] to how are we going to roll this out to
[1:39:45] the public?
[1:39:47] >> Yeah, we we don't have
[1:39:49] >> I
[1:39:49] >> Sorry, go ahead.
[1:39:50] >> I think I think one great thing is, you
[1:39:53] know, we have a lot of great literature.
[1:39:54] So, if someone does come in and ask
[1:39:56] questions about gold backs, we have the
[1:39:59] literature that you could hand out, go
[1:40:01] over.
[1:40:02] Uh we have Phil on the line
[1:40:04] uh who, you know, runs this program.
[1:40:07] He and his team are great resources to
[1:40:10] educate, uh be willing to come and do
[1:40:13] more educational uh opportunities that
[1:40:15] you if you have them out there.
[1:40:17] So, we're here to help as much as we can
[1:40:20] and and uh facilitate any educational uh
[1:40:24] processes that we need to as well.
[1:40:26] >> Yeah, I would second what Nathan just
[1:40:28] said. Um
[1:40:30] I would be totally willing to come out
[1:40:32] for a town hall type of meeting and
[1:40:34] educate people.
[1:40:36] I'm heading to one tomorrow, in fact, in
[1:40:38] a similar sized town of 10,000 people.
[1:40:41] Uh we'll all meet with people and and
[1:40:44] do some continued education on gold
[1:40:46] backs. And this is a town that's been
[1:40:48] using gold backs for years, but they
[1:40:50] still have people that want to know a
[1:40:52] little more, so they invite me out at
[1:40:53] least once a year and I go out and
[1:40:55] update them and give them a little more
[1:40:57] education, go around the town and visit
[1:41:00] businesses and see how it's going. Uh
[1:41:02] really be a community partner with you,
[1:41:04] not just come in and try to sell you on
[1:41:07] something. We really see this as a way
[1:41:10] of keeping
[1:41:11] uh money or economics local in your own
[1:41:14] economy, make your own
[1:41:17] you know, local economy and we want to
[1:41:19] be a partner with you in that.
[1:41:21] >> Okay. Uh Councilman Ingle, did you have
[1:41:23] something earlier or no?
[1:41:24] >> Uh I I do. So, a couple things. Um so, I
[1:41:28] spoke spoke on this at the last meeting
[1:41:30] and and I believe
[1:41:32] at the time I believed in it as uh an
[1:41:34] investment vehicle and and I've
[1:41:36] purchased several of these uh several
[1:41:39] years ago and have seen my return
[1:41:41] double.
[1:41:43] However, as I look at the exchange rate
[1:41:45] today with one Goldback being $8.85 and
[1:41:49] spot price of gold being at $4,408,
[1:41:54] it's double the price of spot.
[1:41:57] A- And so, with Goldback,
[1:42:00] I don't really see it as as a currency.
[1:42:03] I see it as a business that that
[1:42:05] potentially is fleecing their customers.
[1:42:07] Uh when we're looking at the amount of
[1:42:09] money that you put in for the amount
[1:42:12] that you get back with an an expectation
[1:42:14] or an anticipation anticipation of the
[1:42:18] uh price of gold increasing,
[1:42:20] it's a total gamble. And the amount that
[1:42:22] we're charging and the fact that we're
[1:42:24] even considering being a wholesaler
[1:42:26] means we're we're potentially
[1:42:28] accepting being part of that business
[1:42:30] model, which is charge double what a
[1:42:32] product is worth, keep a percentage, and
[1:42:35] then pass that disservice on to our
[1:42:37] citizens or customers.
[1:42:39] Uh that's just my my thought and my
[1:42:40] belief. Like, if I think if if uh
[1:42:45] fractional gold is something that you're
[1:42:47] interested in and purchasing as an
[1:42:49] investment,
[1:42:50] maybe that's for you because it has a a
[1:42:52] low floor. You're really able to get in
[1:42:54] there for $8. I think I saw quarter uh
[1:42:56] bills that were also offered, so those
[1:42:58] are probably three or four dollars would
[1:43:00] be just my guess.
[1:43:02] Uh you know, if if that's something that
[1:43:03] you're looking into and potentially
[1:43:05] trying to stack gold, that may be a
[1:43:07] vehicle for you, but as far as
[1:43:09] uh actual assets are concerned, if you
[1:43:12] were to buy
[1:43:14] a you know, an ounce of gold right now,
[1:43:16] it would cost you $4,408
[1:43:19] plus the spot fee from whichever uh
[1:43:22] institution you decide to purchase it from. If you bought an ounce
[1:43:25] worth of gold from Goldback at this
[1:43:27] exchange rate, it would be $8,850.
[1:43:31] » Ouch.
[1:43:32] >> I I I've got something to say to that.
[1:43:34] Uh
[1:43:36] Take that take that
[1:43:38] 1 oz that you just bought and as a
[1:43:39] merchant, you wanted to accept that.
[1:43:42] How do you know that that's even a real
[1:43:44] piece of gold?
[1:43:46] And can you really break it down? And
[1:43:48] most merchants won't have a $16,000
[1:43:50] machine that can fractionalize that to
[1:43:53] actually say it is a gold or not.
[1:43:55] Another piece of that is most if you're truly looking to buy gold
[1:44:02] that's a bullion buyer, gold backs
[1:44:04] aren't for you and and we'll admit that.
[1:44:07] Gold backs are bought to be to be spent
[1:44:10] to be used
[1:44:12] to fractionalize. No one fractionalizes
[1:44:15] gold the way that we do and the cost of
[1:44:18] fractionalize that is very expensive. So
[1:44:20] there is a cost
[1:44:22] to to making a fractional piece of gold.
[1:44:25] So you know there there's a couple things there that if if you are
[1:44:28] looking to do bullion, like go buy you
[1:44:31] know gold coins or bars and hope for the
[1:44:34] price it goes up and then you can sell
[1:44:35] it but a typical
[1:44:37] gold back buyer
[1:44:39] is not a bullion buyer and from our
[1:44:42] research, you know, we don't sell retail
[1:44:44] so we [clears throat] don't have a lot
[1:44:46] of end result data but the data that I
[1:44:50] do have is you know, you know, we sold
[1:44:53] probably 300 million of these and less
[1:44:56] than 1% is ever returned.
[1:44:58] Excuse me, less than 2% is ever
[1:45:00] returned.
[1:45:02] For exchange or to you know, to try to buy back or sell back. So
[1:45:08] >> I applaud
[1:45:09] >> And one other thing to keep in mind too
[1:45:10] is yes it it is at double spot.
[1:45:15] price is
[1:45:17] maintained in your purchasing power. You
[1:45:20] don't lose that spot price
[1:45:22] on on your purchase. So if you bought it
[1:45:24] for $8.85
[1:45:27] Um could spend it for $8.85. You're not
[1:45:30] losing. And yes, there's always a gamble
[1:45:31] with precious metals. They could go up
[1:45:33] or down.
[1:45:34] But if you uh
[1:45:37] look over the past 2 years, those who
[1:45:39] have bought gold and silver have much
[1:45:40] more purchasing power at that double
[1:45:42] spot price than they do less
[1:45:45] >> Um I I do understand what you're saying,
[1:45:48] uh Councilman Ingle. The one thing I'm
[1:45:50] looking at from a more of a 50,000-ft
[1:45:53] level
[1:45:54] is the potential for creating a parallel
[1:45:57] economy in a time where
[1:45:59] there's a potential [clears throat] for
[1:46:01] the dollar to really tank. And
[1:46:04] uh
[1:46:04] it if you look at how gold and silver's
[1:46:07] been used in other countries
[1:46:09] to facilitate
[1:46:11] uh trade and um
[1:46:15] you know, general commerce in a time
[1:46:17] when you start to see hyper-inflatable
[1:46:20] dollars or if you have digital economy
[1:46:24] and for some reason, for example, your
[1:46:27] funds get frozen like the Canadian
[1:46:29] truckers
[1:46:30] then you [clears throat] you do have to
[1:46:32] look at least that potential angle as to
[1:46:37] um the freedom of purchase, the ability
[1:46:40] to still
[1:46:41] exist in an economy when
[1:46:44] things go towards uh putting a chip in
[1:46:47] your hand.
[1:46:48] So, that's kind of where I'm looking at
[1:46:51] it from.
[1:46:52] >> Mr. Murray, I I know I appreciate your thought of alternative currency and
[1:46:56] I I think that's a great idea. Um you
[1:46:59] know, if we just I don't know if we
[1:47:00] could pull it up, but if you look at the
[1:47:02] history of the price of gold, right,
[1:47:04] you'll see this radical spike over the
[1:47:06] last 2 years.
[1:47:08] >> Why do you think that's happening?
[1:47:10] >> Well, I mean
[1:47:12] without like getting super political,
[1:47:14] market manipulation. That's
[1:47:16] my simple answer. Um right? Uh
[1:47:19] and and this is where my fear would
[1:47:22] come, right? Is that large holders or or
[1:47:25] folks who were potentially purchasing,
[1:47:27] you know, with the hopes that it would
[1:47:29] increase in value to make their large
[1:47:32] purchase more more affordable,
[1:47:36] the same time could get left holding the
[1:47:37] bag.
[1:47:38] >> I see what you're saying. I think
[1:47:40] to navigate around that potentially,
[1:47:42] you'd have to make sure that people knew
[1:47:44] that,
[1:47:45] you know, it's not
[1:47:47] intended to be an investment, it's
[1:47:50] intended to potentially stabilize a
[1:47:53] local economy in a time of of need, and
[1:47:57] it's not something people have to do.
[1:47:59] >> Well, just just today, Mr. Mayor, you're
[1:48:01] you if you were to to have had, you
[1:48:03] know, let's say
[1:48:06] an ounce worth or, you know, you would
[1:48:08] have lost $32 today. The market
[1:48:10] fluctuates daily, and I know that their
[1:48:12] system is attached to that. And and so,
[1:48:13] your your dollar's vary from day to day.
[1:48:17] >> And and I I get that it's not a perfect
[1:48:19] process, but I also get the fact that
[1:48:22] our our dollar's being diluted.
[1:48:24] It's going to continue to. The
[1:48:26] government's already decided they're
[1:48:28] going to print and print and print. It's
[1:48:31] in their mandate of the Treasury now.
[1:48:33] And so,
[1:48:35] at what point do we hit a hyperinflation
[1:48:37] event, and now
[1:48:39] uh our citizens are coming up with a
[1:48:41] wheelbarrow of cash to buy something
[1:48:44] when they
[1:48:45] could have had this other option that
[1:48:47] stabilizes their family. So, I guess
[1:48:50] that's where I'm at. I mean, I could be
[1:48:53] completely crazy, off the rocker, but I
[1:48:55] do think that it's something that having
[1:48:58] it available in some way in our
[1:49:00] community, and it doesn't have to be
[1:49:02] through our city, it could be through,
[1:49:04] you know, another um
[1:49:06] community [clears throat] member putting
[1:49:07] in the machine or ATM machine, but it is
[1:49:11] something that,
[1:49:13] you know, when you look at the general
[1:49:15] direction of the currency, the amount of
[1:49:18] printing that's going to continue to
[1:49:20] happen.
[1:49:21] Um
[1:49:22] I'm very concerned for the community and
[1:49:25] making sure that it stays stable.
[1:49:28] So, that's kind of where I'm coming
[1:49:29] from.
[1:49:30] >> Mayor, may I ask a question?
[1:49:31] >> Yeah.
[1:49:32] >> Um so, for online, Kim or Phil or
[1:49:35] Nathan, whoever wants to answer this.
[1:49:37] Um
[1:49:38] I was looking at the distributors uh
[1:49:40] online and what distributors there are
[1:49:43] and I didn't see, at least in our area
[1:49:45] and going too far out of California, but
[1:49:47] any city entities that were
[1:49:50] distributors. Are there other city
[1:49:52] governments that are are distributing
[1:49:54] Goldbacks right now?
[1:49:59] » This would be a first.
[1:50:02] >> Okay.
[1:50:03] Uh okay, and then so, we I I did see
[1:50:06] that our closest one is in Riverbank.
[1:50:08] It's an ATM. I meant to go try and find
[1:50:11] it. I haven't quite uh found it yet. Is
[1:50:14] there any uh private businesses in
[1:50:18] Escalon or even closer to from the the
[1:50:21] closest one to us that have had interest
[1:50:24] in becoming distributors uh in town?
[1:50:30] » I think that's a Phil question.
[1:50:32] >> Okay.
[1:50:33] >> Phil?
[1:50:33] >> No, that's a By the way, there are other
[1:50:35] municipalities
[1:50:36] >> question. So,
[1:50:38] >> That would be a Nathan or Brandon. I
[1:50:39] don't know if Brandon's on here.
[1:50:41] Um I can get you that information. I
[1:50:44] don't have it readily at hand, um but I
[1:50:46] can get that sent to Trevin and let you
[1:50:48] know
[1:50:49] who is near you.
[1:50:51] >> I do know that when we had our last
[1:50:53] meeting and and we were talking with
[1:50:55] just Trevin, um there wasn't
[1:50:59] anything a major distributor anywhere
[1:51:02] too close to where you are.
[1:51:03] >> Well, Riverbank is close. I mean, that's
[1:51:05] a [clears throat] 12-minute, 15-minute
[1:51:07] drive. It wouldn't be too bad to go get
[1:51:09] those.
[1:51:10] >> You're You're saying that there's a uh
[1:51:12] gold ATM in Riverbank, is that right?
[1:51:16] >> That's what the website's telling us
[1:51:18] here, yeah.
[1:51:19] >> Okay.
[1:51:19] >> So we were just I'm my question is if
[1:51:22] any businesses in town have expressed
[1:51:25] interest in becoming distributors here.
[1:51:31] » Not to my knowledge.
[1:51:32] >> Okay.
[1:51:33] Thank you.
[1:51:35] >> Regardless of the how gold sign on the
[1:51:38] vote
[1:51:39] hopefully it'd be nice if you guys would
[1:51:42] be
[1:51:43] you know, still committed to coming and
[1:51:44] talking to our local businesses about
[1:51:46] the idea.
[1:51:48] And
[1:51:49] whether it goes left or right, it's up
[1:51:52] to them, but at least I deliver an
[1:51:54] option
[1:51:55] for the future. So if it doesn't go the
[1:51:57] way we want it to, then at least it's
[1:52:00] off my conscience.
[1:52:04] So
[1:52:06] we want to put it out to the community.
[1:52:08] Anyone out in the community like to talk
[1:52:10] to this?
[1:52:14] » [clears throat]
[1:52:17] » I think
[1:52:18] Councilman Engel had it on the nose.
[1:52:20] It's speculation.
[1:52:22] And individually, I speculate on certain
[1:52:25] things. Everybody you know, has a chance
[1:52:28] to do that. But if you decide to do
[1:52:31] this, you're speculating with the entire
[1:52:33] community's
[1:52:34] money and not just
[1:52:37] a few. Some people are going to be
[1:52:38] totally against it. My biggest thought
[1:52:40] is
[1:52:42] like Councilman Engel pointed out
[1:52:45] when but
[1:52:46] maybe a year ago
[1:52:48] 5,500
[1:52:50] for a ounce of gold
[1:52:52] that was 44.
[1:52:54] You know, it might go back up, it might
[1:52:55] go back down. But if you look at the
[1:52:57] history of gold
[1:52:59] it's one of these.
[1:53:01] And it's basically has followed the
[1:53:02] dollar, too. And I agree that the dollar
[1:53:05] is in sad shape. But,
[1:53:08] there's there's too much speculation, I
[1:53:10] think, to take on for a city government
[1:53:13] and taxpayer money.
[1:53:15] >> Appreciate that.
[1:53:21] Anyone else? Oh, never mind. Anyone else
[1:53:23] like to speak to this topic at all?
[1:53:26] right. Bring it back to the dais.
[1:53:29] >> I have a question, actually, for
[1:53:32] city attorney, but he left. So,
[1:53:35] I'll ask the the city manager.
[1:53:38] Um
[1:53:41] Have we confirmed that there are no
[1:53:43] um
[1:53:45] legal
[1:53:47] issues
[1:53:49] if the city of Escondido were to become
[1:53:51] a distributor distributor for
[1:53:54] essentially what is
[1:53:55] a private business?
[1:53:58] >> Yeah, I think there would be more luck
[1:54:00] if if the the council decided to yes,
[1:54:02] explore this, um we would go through the
[1:54:06] contracting greater detail. We would do
[1:54:08] our end of the research. We have not
[1:54:11] done that research up front. If the
[1:54:14] council didn't want to explore it, we
[1:54:15] don't want to waste time and money on
[1:54:17] um something that the council wasn't
[1:54:19] interested in. So, yes, we would dot our
[1:54:21] eyes and cross our t's um prior to final
[1:54:24] execution.
[1:54:26] >> Maybe the [clears throat] better answer
[1:54:27] is just not to do it through the
[1:54:30] government.
[1:54:31] >> Yeah, Mr.
[1:54:32] >> That was going to be my suggestion. But,
[1:54:34] you know, if maybe the EDC could, you
[1:54:36] know, set a small portion aside to
[1:54:39] explore businesses that may be
[1:54:40] interested. It seems more like an an an
[1:54:44] independent decision, um rather than a
[1:54:46] city-based decision, which, you know,
[1:54:48] potentially could put us in harm's way.
[1:54:50] But, Mr. Mayor, again, I do appreciate
[1:54:52] uh your attention to uh
[1:54:56] what's happening financially in the
[1:54:57] United States. And and as I I know that
[1:55:00] you already do, but just to say it
[1:55:01] publicly, you know, I would encourage
[1:55:03] some exploration in the digital currency
[1:55:04] as well. It's not a commitment, but
[1:55:08] exploration.
[1:55:09] >> Yeah, I I I don't have a problem with
[1:55:11] digital, just so you're aware.
[1:55:14] Um
[1:55:15] because
[1:55:17] it does make things more convenient at
[1:55:18] times. However,
[1:55:21] yeah, we saw it with the Canadian
[1:55:23] truckers how
[1:55:25] you can get shut down digitally,
[1:55:28] right? So, it's not a leap to think that
[1:55:31] our government is going sideways, in my
[1:55:34] opinion,
[1:55:36] uh could very easily do things
[1:55:38] that aren't in our best interest,
[1:55:41] and down the road we're um eating out of trash can cuz you
[1:55:45] can't get your money.
[1:55:47] You know, so so those are the kind of
[1:55:48] things I don't know. I'll
[1:55:53] keep it to myself at this point, but I
[1:55:55] do think that it's something that every
[1:55:58] person should really be opening their
[1:56:00] eyes and kind of
[1:56:01] doing their due diligence. It's It's
[1:56:03] important.
[1:56:04] >> All right, he's back. Can I ask my
[1:56:06] question again?
[1:56:07] >> Yep.
[1:56:09] >> I'm sorry.
[1:56:11] >> Thanks, Frank.
[1:56:11] >> I had no idea.
[1:56:13] So, so my question is
[1:56:16] um to
[1:56:18] what
[1:56:19] Council Member Angle mentioned,
[1:56:22] is there any sort of legal concern for
[1:56:26] essentially what the city becoming a
[1:56:29] distributor for a
[1:56:31] private business, and could there any be
[1:56:34] could there be the potential for any
[1:56:37] sort of long-term
[1:56:40] exposure or risk to the city if so if
[1:56:44] say somebody comes and invests in gold
[1:56:46] backs,
[1:56:48] could they come back to the city of
[1:56:49] Escalon and say, "Well, you're the
[1:56:51] distributor. I bought it for you, and I
[1:56:53] didn't get the return on investment that looking for, so therefore
[1:56:57] you should be
[1:56:59] held partially responsible for that as
[1:57:01] well.
[1:57:02] >> It could if you look at it as an
[1:57:03] investment.
[1:57:04] >> [laughter]
[1:57:05] >> Right?
[1:57:05] >> Yeah, I mean I would just say this is
[1:57:07] America, so you can sue anybody over
[1:57:09] anything at any time.
[1:57:11] Um
[1:57:12] if you are if the city's going to if the
[1:57:14] city's going to act as a private actor
[1:57:16] in the pri- private marketplace, it's
[1:57:18] going to expose itself to all the suites
[1:57:20] of claims, damages, lawsuits than any
[1:57:23] business would. So, you are adding risk.
[1:57:25] And what I would say is this,
[1:57:28] um that kind of risk is not insurable.
[1:57:31] We have uh we have um
[1:57:34] general we don't have we don't have
[1:57:35] insurance. Cities don't have insurance,
[1:57:37] but they have something like insurance,
[1:57:38] okay? For our purposes, I'm going to
[1:57:39] call it insurance.
[1:57:41] Um and it covers your slip-and-fall
[1:57:45] uh general liability type risk that
[1:57:47] cities normally operate in. If we are
[1:57:49] now operating in the private sector,
[1:57:52] we would
[1:57:53] our our joint powers authority wouldn't
[1:57:55] cover that risk.
[1:57:56] >> I I guess what I would ask if the guy
[1:57:58] asked is just a table this, and then um
[1:58:02] if I could get the contact information
[1:58:04] of the people up there, uh maybe I'll
[1:58:06] pursue it through my own uh endeavors
[1:58:09] outside of the city.
[1:58:11] Uh that would probably be better.
[1:58:13] Um is that is it possible to get your
[1:58:16] contact information?
[1:58:18] It doesn't have to be over the phone or
[1:58:19] over the
[1:58:21] >> Yes, we can get it to you.
[1:58:23] >> Okay, I really appreciate it.
[1:58:24] >> And and and and also, man, I want to
[1:58:26] kind of follow up on what you're what
[1:58:27] you were talking about digital currency
[1:58:29] is
[1:58:30] uh
[1:58:32] I was at a conference in Canada about
[1:58:35] two about a 18 months ago. It was after
[1:58:37] the North Carolina floods. I don't know
[1:58:39] if you remember that, where everything
[1:58:42] uh just collapsed. No internet, no
[1:58:45] power.
[1:58:46] And I had ran into two guys in Canada
[1:58:49] that were at that helping clean up, and
[1:58:51] they said, "We saw your currency being
[1:58:55] used as it should have." No, they were
[1:58:57] bartering with for milk, for gas, for
[1:59:00] eggs with the gold backs. And that
[1:59:03] that's truly one of the main purposes of of our fractional gold. It you can use it to barter for such things
[1:59:11] in in in
[1:59:13] instances where you're not going to have
[1:59:16] power.
[1:59:17] Cuz it inevitably will happen to us.
[1:59:19] Digital currency will not be able to be
[1:59:21] used.
[1:59:22] This is this and and gold over the test
[1:59:25] of time has held its held held its
[1:59:27] power.
[1:59:28] Um they used this way thousands and
[1:59:31] thousands of years ago for for payment
[1:59:32] and for bartering. So,
[1:59:35] we appreciate you guys looking at gold
[1:59:37] back. We really do. We think it's a
[1:59:39] great uh could be a great part of your
[1:59:41] community uh for whatever choice or
[1:59:44] whichever way you go down in the but we
[1:59:46] do appreciate your time that you helped
[1:59:48] uh uh put into gold back.
[1:59:50] >> Okay. I'll appreciate your time and um
[1:59:53] unless the dais has any other thoughts
[1:59:55] >> I have one more.
[1:59:55] >> Okay, please.
[1:59:56] >> No, I just wanted to state that I am a
[1:59:59] big supporter of parallel currency uh
[2:00:01] separate from the Fed and Fed separate
[2:00:04] from the government. Um I don't
[2:00:06] necessarily feel like this is separate
[2:00:07] from the government having them be a
[2:00:09] distributor as much as I trust our city
[2:00:12] government, but it separate from the
[2:00:13] government would be uh where this would
[2:00:16] be. And I
[2:00:17] >> Makes sense.
[2:00:18] >> I I do support the parallel currency and
[2:00:20] I really like the idea of gold backs in
[2:00:22] general, but probably not uh through the
[2:00:24] city of Escondido.
[2:00:26] >> I'm sorry.
[2:00:26] >> Yeah.
[2:00:27] >> Councilman Nico
[2:00:27] >> Yeah, Mr. If there were truly a
[2:00:29] destabilization event that were to take
[2:00:31] place in our area,
[2:00:33] it's it's the immediate trade and barter
[2:00:36] that this would affect, right? We're
[2:00:37] talking minutes or hours while grocery
[2:00:40] store shelves or
[2:00:42] stock piles reduced. After that, we
[2:00:44] we're talking a supply chain issue. So,
[2:00:46] I think that, you know, while there is,
[2:00:48] you know, a potential use for that in a
[2:00:49] barter situation and and in the
[2:00:51] immediate, um one, you know, uh
[2:00:55] early adopters would be at an advantage.
[2:00:58] The the majority of our community who
[2:00:59] probably wouldn't adopt in that would be
[2:01:01] kind of left out in the cold and it
[2:01:03] would be a have and have not situation,
[2:01:04] which I think
[2:01:06] in a destabilization event, chaos would
[2:01:08] ensue, but the fact that some people are
[2:01:11] uh not not being treated equitably would
[2:01:14] create additional destabilization
[2:01:16] in a small community. Uh it's just my my
[2:01:18] guess. I hope that we never ever see
[2:01:20] this and we're just we're just talking
[2:01:21] in hopes of preparation for a worst case
[2:01:23] scenario.
[2:01:25] But, I
[2:01:26] if we're completely off the grid, the
[2:01:28] stores aren't going to be able to
[2:01:29] reorder, phones aren't going to work,
[2:01:32] internet's not going to work. Like, it's
[2:01:33] what you have on hand.
[2:01:35] >> Uh-huh.
[2:01:35] >> And that's that's if you go and and talk
[2:01:38] to the people that have already
[2:01:40] experienced that from other countries,
[2:01:43] uh gold and silver saved them.
[2:01:46] So, it's just something to be aware of.
[2:01:48] We don't have to talk about it anymore.
[2:01:50] Um
[2:01:52] Can we go ahead and table it?
[2:01:53] If everyone's good with that. Table?
[2:01:55] Okay.
[2:01:55] >> Sure.
[2:01:56] >> All right, we'll go on to number
[2:01:59] 10.
[2:02:02] Thank you, Barry.
[2:02:03] >> Uh this is a continuation of an item
[2:02:06] that was discussed at the last meeting
[2:02:08] uh in regard to a specific request to
[2:02:10] attend a conference. At that time, uh
[2:02:13] council directed staff to come back and
[2:02:16] put a broader framework or a policy
[2:02:19] around um council member travel for
[2:02:23] training purposes, for networking
[2:02:25] purposes.
[2:02:26] And so, this item presents that travel
[2:02:29] policy.
[2:02:31] Um
[2:02:33] What we also mentioned at the last
[2:02:34] meeting is if there was desired by the
[2:02:37] council to uh adopt a slate. Um so, some
[2:02:42] indication, some not that um generally
[2:02:44] Council would like to attend X number of
[2:02:47] sessions and X number of council members
[2:02:50] per session so that we are more
[2:02:53] transparent to the community. We are
[2:02:56] helping the budget process so we're
[2:02:58] aware
[2:03:00] and
[2:03:01] you know Council members can plan their
[2:03:05] vacations and meetings and and other
[2:03:07] things around that.
[2:03:09] It just be more transparent I think for
[2:03:12] everyone.
[2:03:14] Um, so what we've also done in the staff
[2:03:16] report is look at I'll say six. We've
[2:03:20] included five in the staff report but I
[2:03:21] was reminded of one later.
[2:03:24] So in the staff report there are three
[2:03:26] from Cal Cities which is the primary
[2:03:28] body associated
[2:03:31] with kind of Council member and staff
[2:03:33] training in California.
[2:03:35] It is a lobbying group. Their overall
[2:03:37] stated mission is to really support the
[2:03:41] local communities cities in particular
[2:03:44] you know against the state and and
[2:03:46] federal government.
[2:03:48] Of course
[2:03:49] we're a big state. We have communities
[2:03:53] as small as a couple hundred up to you
[2:03:55] know several million
[2:03:57] and everywhere in between and so
[2:04:00] ideologically we are different as well
[2:04:03] and so so is Cal Cities right as an
[2:04:05] organization for sure.
[2:04:08] But they do provide you know what I
[2:04:10] would call generally
[2:04:13] politically neutral content for Council
[2:04:16] members and
[2:04:19] staff.
[2:04:20] There's also a couple of economic based
[2:04:25] groups that are out there and we've
[2:04:27] highlighted a couple of conferences.
[2:04:30] One's the California Economic Summit by
[2:04:32] Cal Forward and then Cal Ed just
[2:04:35] California Economic Development
[2:04:36] Corporation basically, is the Rural
[2:04:39] Economic Development Exchange.
[2:04:41] The one that I omitted
[2:04:44] was the One Voice trip, which was
[2:04:47] discussed and raised by a Council Member
[2:04:49] Engel and attended most recently by
[2:04:52] Council Member Stroman.
[2:04:54] That is a lobbying effort at the cog
[2:04:56] level, the regional level, the county
[2:04:58] level,
[2:04:59] particularly around transportation
[2:05:02] projects.
[2:05:03] So, this was a a new endeavor for the
[2:05:06] City of Escalon to attend that
[2:05:09] and really put us
[2:05:11] a bit on the map in terms of of that
[2:05:14] effort.
[2:05:15] So, staff in the staff report presented
[2:05:19] kind of five or six options for the
[2:05:22] Council to consider. Of course, that
[2:05:24] doesn't have to be 100%. We walked
[2:05:26] through the policy that if there was one
[2:05:28] off that made sense within the framework
[2:05:30] of the policy that was adopted, if it is
[2:05:32] adopted, those could be brought up.
[2:05:37] And so, I can just walk through the
[2:05:40] policy a little bit.
[2:05:42] Maybe if we can go to attachment one,
[2:05:44] scroll down a bit.
[2:05:47] It is three-page, I think, policy. We
[2:05:50] start with a policy purpose purpose and
[2:05:52] statement. A few of
[2:05:56] There's a few blanks left for the
[2:05:58] Council to really weigh in on
[2:06:00] [clears throat]
[2:06:02] their thoughts on training and travel as
[2:06:05] it pertains to Council members.
[2:06:08] And we talk about authorization. We talk
[2:06:10] about, you know, kind of needing Council
[2:06:13] approval,
[2:06:14] but working within the kind of slate, if
[2:06:16] that is adopted. We talk about eligible
[2:06:20] expenses,
[2:06:21] particularly registration and lodging.
[2:06:24] There's a preference for that to be done
[2:06:27] with a city credit card
[2:06:29] just to will
[2:06:30] any potential for over reimbursement,
[2:06:35] questions or concerns with
[2:06:37] reimbursement, um something that that
[2:06:39] went wrong.
[2:06:40] Um in that section, we talk about
[2:06:43] overnight stays and a strong preference
[2:06:45] for not having an overnight stay if it's
[2:06:47] a one-day trip or one-day travel.
[2:06:50] We talk about um the council really
[2:06:52] committing to be good fiscal stewards
[2:06:54] and not um
[2:06:57] staying longer than absolutely needed.
[2:07:01] Uh we talk about transportation and
[2:07:03] essentially the four transportation
[2:07:05] options using the seat city vehicle,
[2:07:07] which is the least costly, airfare,
[2:07:10] rental vehicle, or personal vehicle. Um
[2:07:13] again, we talk about being um making the
[2:07:15] most logical but economical choice in
[2:07:20] um
[2:07:21] in the transportation.
[2:07:23] Um it doesn't say you have to go with
[2:07:25] the lowest choice cuz there will be
[2:07:26] extenuating circumstances occasionally.
[2:07:29] Um
[2:07:30] And so, we we talk about just being good
[2:07:32] fiscal stewards. We talk about meals,
[2:07:35] um really trying to use the conference
[2:07:36] meals if there are to minimize um the
[2:07:40] outlay by the city. We talk about the
[2:07:42] proximate uh process for reimbursement.
[2:07:45] Talk about prohibited expenses.
[2:07:49] And then we talk about report back. So,
[2:07:51] if a council member attends a
[2:07:52] conference, uh at the next council
[2:07:54] meeting or thereafter, really reporting
[2:07:56] back what was learned, uh what was
[2:07:58] gained, why it was important, that type
[2:08:00] of thing. Um not only for the rest of
[2:08:02] the council members to kind of learn
[2:08:04] from that, but also to share with the
[2:08:06] community kind of the benefits um from
[2:08:08] that particular endeavor.
[2:08:11] And then audits. We talk in here and we
[2:08:13] want to make it, you know, known that um
[2:08:16] periodically or as needed, um finance
[2:08:19] department will audit any
[2:08:21] reimbursements, any travel, just to
[2:08:24] ensure that it is following the policy.
[2:08:27] Um so, that is a thumbnail sketch of the
[2:08:30] drafted policy. Happy to answer any
[2:08:32] questions that the council may have. Uh
[2:08:34] also happy to take direction on changes,
[2:08:37] tweaks, modifications um that the
[2:08:39] council would like to see really for for
[2:08:41] their travel policy, travel
[2:08:42] [clears throat] and training.
[2:08:43] >> Uh any questions up here?
[2:08:46] >> I I just have one statement.
[2:08:48] Uh and that's for the um the mayor and
[2:08:51] council member academy, so the every odd year. So uh just my opinion, I
[2:08:56] think that should be mandatory for
[2:08:59] incoming council members
[2:09:02] to give them that opportunity to
[2:09:05] get that broader view of what other uh
[2:09:08] city representatives are doing and give
[2:09:09] them the opportunity to to network so
[2:09:12] they have uh
[2:09:13] ears and eyes to pull from as as they go
[2:09:16] through their tenure.
[2:09:19] >> I'll I'd say I I if not mandatory, at
[2:09:21] least highly recommended.
[2:09:24] Um
[2:09:25] >> Highly recommend. I'm on board with
[2:09:26] that. Sure.
[2:09:27] >> Yeah, highly recommend. I assumed you're
[2:09:29] going, why wouldn't you be?
[2:09:31] Um but I even returning
[2:09:34] you get a lot out of that. There there
[2:09:36] the legal updates and uh issue updates
[2:09:39] every 2 years of what's current right
[2:09:41] now. So you have all of the um
[2:09:44] different assemblies for those and and
[2:09:47] whatnot. So there's a lot of great
[2:09:48] education in that. But uh
[2:09:51] >> I feel like you guys are kind of beating
[2:09:53] me up here and I just want to say there
[2:09:54] was no availability when I got elected,
[2:09:55] okay?
[2:09:56] >> [laughter]
[2:09:57] >> You were late and we will not hopefully
[2:09:59] we won't be late again.
[2:10:02] >> [clears throat]
[2:10:02] >> I might be I might be in the minority
[2:10:04] here, which is fine. I I just don't I
[2:10:07] just can't get behind spending the money
[2:10:09] for
[2:10:10] these things. Uh
[2:10:12] I just think it puts a target on our
[2:10:13] back. It's a networking thing. Um
[2:10:17] It's just my opinion.
[2:10:19] But uh like I said
[2:10:21] um I can see where you could go network
[2:10:24] and do that kind of thing, but
[2:10:26] yeah.
[2:10:28] I think these are things you can do
[2:10:30] online yourself, zooms, all that kind of
[2:10:32] stuff, but that's my opinion.
[2:10:35] I don't know. You guys have any
[2:10:36] thoughts?
[2:10:38] >> Yeah, actually, but
[2:10:40] sounds like council member Cagle is
[2:10:41] getting ready to
[2:10:42] >> Yeah, I'll go first.
[2:10:44] I I
[2:10:46] don't want to 100% you know discourage
[2:10:48] us networking with with other you know
[2:10:50] cities, other areas,
[2:10:52] you know, other council members, mayors,
[2:10:54] you know, whatnot. I don't think that
[2:10:56] necessarily you know puts a target on
[2:10:58] our back. I don't think
[2:11:00] I understand you what your your point of
[2:11:02] view there that the more exposure that a
[2:11:04] small town like ours has to larger
[2:11:07] cities more opportunity for a larger
[2:11:10] city to say, "Hey, they got a lot a lot
[2:11:12] of land. Why don't we go try and develop
[2:11:13] over there?"
[2:11:14] And I think that's kind of
[2:11:16] [clears throat]
[2:11:17] you know your your line of thinking
[2:11:19] there. I do think that there is you know
[2:11:22] definitely
[2:11:24] some advantage to be had in you know
[2:11:26] hearing other points of view, things
[2:11:27] that they're looking at, things that
[2:11:28] they're talking about, things they're
[2:11:29] doing in their cities.
[2:11:31] So I I I don't think you know it should
[2:11:33] be a a blanket you know no we shouldn't
[2:11:35] you know allow X, Y, or Z, but I
[2:11:37] definitely do think there should be a
[2:11:38] limitation.
[2:11:40] Council member Eagles suggestion of a of
[2:11:42] a mandatory
[2:11:44] apparently
[2:11:45] all three of you seem to have thought
[2:11:47] that you got something really good out
[2:11:49] of that when you went.
[2:11:51] Right.
[2:11:51] >> I guess what I'm looking at is like how
[2:11:53] much
[2:11:54] can't you get the same out of a zoom
[2:11:56] meeting?
[2:11:57] >> But you you can attend these things
[2:11:59] virtually.
[2:12:01] The the the things that they're talking
[2:12:02] about you can't attend virtually and
[2:12:05] you know I I will say you know I I work
[2:12:07] in a a completely remote environment. I
[2:12:09] see you know my actual co-workers I may
[2:12:11] see them twice a year you know in total.
[2:12:14] You know those moments definitely build
[2:12:15] the relationships a lot more than you
[2:12:16] know the phone calls and the Zoom
[2:12:17] meetings. So,
[2:12:19] uh I do think that there is an advantage
[2:12:21] to in-person
[2:12:22] uh attendance, as well. Um anyway, I
[2:12:25] [clears throat] I I do like, you know,
[2:12:26] the the suggestion, you know, that you
[2:12:27] know, whatever it is that you guys, you
[2:12:29] know, got out of that that you thought
[2:12:30] was so beneficial. Uh I mean, I'd sure
[2:12:32] like to to get my hands on it, as well.
[2:12:34] Uh and I think that, you know, if it's
[2:12:35] something that is that beneficial, um
[2:12:38] let me ask you, do you is that something
[2:12:40] that we should be like on a rotation of,
[2:12:42] you know, council members, you know, if
[2:12:43] they're, you know, elected to do a
[2:12:44] second term, should they they also be
[2:12:47] attending it again?
[2:12:49] Is it
[2:12:49] >> It's my opinion that they should. So,
[2:12:51] because of the updates, the legal
[2:12:52] updates, the issue updates, like, for
[2:12:54] example, 2 years ago, data centers
[2:12:57] wouldn't be in the conversation.
[2:12:59] Right? And flock cameras wouldn't be in
[2:13:01] the conversation. And now we have those
[2:13:03] updates, where we'll be able to get more
[2:13:05] information on what these things are,
[2:13:07] and it's not just from your Instagram
[2:13:10] reels. And like, it's actual information
[2:13:13] of what contracts say, and how do they
[2:13:15] affect cities, and how they go in and go
[2:13:17] out, and how decisions are made. So, um
[2:13:21] >> Well, that's stuff you can
[2:13:22] >> So, the same way as I go to other
[2:13:25] conferences for other professional, you
[2:13:27] know, your real estate conferences every
[2:13:29] year, they have legal updates. Like,
[2:13:31] things are done different. The contracts
[2:13:33] change here and there. So, um
[2:13:36] that's why I would think every 2 years
[2:13:39] it is nice to go and get those issue
[2:13:41] updates and legal updates.
[2:13:43] >> Well, I I would think that um you know,
[2:13:45] those kind of updates you're you're
[2:13:46] talking about are also going to, you
[2:13:48] know, alert us to things that may be
[2:13:49] coming down the pipeline that we may not
[2:13:50] be unaware of,
[2:13:52] uh you know, as a council, you know, or
[2:13:53] that that staff, you know, may slipped
[2:13:55] underneath their radar at some point,
[2:13:57] you know, that kind of thing.
[2:13:58] Uh you know, so, I think there you know,
[2:13:59] there is a possibility of of being able
[2:14:01] to stay, you know, ahead of a problem
[2:14:04] uh if you're getting information from
[2:14:05] those kind of sources. So, that's, you
[2:14:07] know, my take on it. Like I said, I've
[2:14:08] never attended any of these things,
[2:14:09] aside from uh you know, the the one
[2:14:11] thing that I mentioned our our last
[2:14:13] discussion about this.
[2:14:14] Um So, I don't have a a big scope to to
[2:14:17] go on there, but I think that we should
[2:14:20] definitely do this on a limited level.
[2:14:22] We shouldn't be just wasting tax
[2:14:23] dollars, you know, flying all over the
[2:14:24] country and and you know, doing
[2:14:26] attending everything that pops up.
[2:14:29] But I do think that some of these things
[2:14:31] probably are
[2:14:32] maybe not necessary, but should be
[2:14:35] encouraged just to be sure that we are
[2:14:37] staying up to date with the the newest
[2:14:39] things and making, you know, contacts
[2:14:41] and
[2:14:42] you know, that sort of thing you know,
[2:14:43] with other communities that are similar.
[2:14:45] There are similar communities out there
[2:14:46] that we may be the only Echelon, but
[2:14:48] there are other little towns that are just like us in in a lot of fashions
[2:14:52] and forms.
[2:14:53] >> I really think that was the largest
[2:14:55] benefit for that Cal Cities meeting was
[2:14:57] to be able to network with
[2:14:59] several small communities similar to our
[2:15:02] own in in one visit.
[2:15:05] There was a lot that was learned
[2:15:08] at least by myself and and you know, I
[2:15:09] think there's a lot of energy coming
[2:15:10] into it when you still have, you know,
[2:15:12] hopes and dreams of being a public
[2:15:14] servant until they're kind of dashed and
[2:15:16] stomped on by the reality of the
[2:15:17] service. Um
[2:15:19] you know, if if I could say one
[2:15:22] or make one suggestion and I think that
[2:15:25] the policy and everything looks great
[2:15:27] and all of us may have different ideas
[2:15:30] or intentions on things we'd like to
[2:15:32] further educate ourselves about. I would
[2:15:34] just throw it out there that the council had potential to to do one
[2:15:41] event per year per council member and
[2:15:42] that kind of gives them the opportunity
[2:15:44] to
[2:15:45] go to the one that they want to or or
[2:15:47] maybe kind of team up. I know if if for
[2:15:50] whatever reason I I do win my seat
[2:15:53] and I stay on cog, I will definitely,
[2:15:55] you know, be attending next year's one
[2:15:57] voice trip. So, that would be my I okay,
[2:15:59] I want to go to that one. But for
[2:16:02] everybody else, I mean, I think we heard
[2:16:03] feedback from uh both uh Councilman
[2:16:06] Walker and Stroman uh about their desire
[2:16:08] to to visit this um
[2:16:11] annual conference. So, you know, I
[2:16:13] think, you know, one a year per council
[2:16:15] member is is a um
[2:16:18] kind of a a fair and balanced, you know,
[2:16:20] offering.
[2:16:23] Uh any other thoughts on this side
[2:16:25] before we go out to public?
[2:16:27] >> So,
[2:16:28] briefly,
[2:16:29] um
[2:16:30] actually I have a question.
[2:16:31] So, this may be getting in the weeds a
[2:16:34] little bit too much, uh but when it
[2:16:36] comes to vehicles, what's not mentioned
[2:16:39] is um
[2:16:41] insurance.
[2:16:42] And so, I would just would like to some
[2:16:45] sort of clarification as far as
[2:16:48] if there is
[2:16:49] if you use a personal vehicle, does the
[2:16:52] city's insurance
[2:16:53] cover you?
[2:16:55] Uh if you use a rental vehicle,
[2:16:58] are you required to buy the the rental
[2:17:02] the rip-off rental car insurance?
[2:17:05] Um
[2:17:07] but the other thing that I that I want
[2:17:09] to mention and and
[2:17:11] Mayor, I understand your perspective
[2:17:13] about um
[2:17:15] couldn't you just jump on a Zoom?
[2:17:17] There are I can speak from experience.
[2:17:20] There are many many
[2:17:22] uh networking possibilities
[2:17:25] um
[2:17:26] for
[2:17:27] mayors and council members within Cal
[2:17:29] Cities.
[2:17:31] However,
[2:17:32] um
[2:17:34] there's also something that we said
[2:17:37] about networking, meeting face-to-face.
[2:17:41] For example,
[2:17:42] um
[2:17:43] at the Mayor and Council Members Academy
[2:17:45] that
[2:17:47] Councilman Angle and Councilman Walker,
[2:17:49] myself, and former Mayor Bellinger
[2:17:51] attended,
[2:17:52] um we met with representatives from City
[2:17:56] Riverbank
[2:17:57] and developed those connections.
[2:18:00] And I think most people realize um
[2:18:04] City Riverbank has a very big
[2:18:07] um
[2:18:08] ballot measure coming in November.
[2:18:11] And uh with River the potential for
[2:18:13] Riverwalk.
[2:18:15] And through networking opportunities
[2:18:18] um
[2:18:20] I can't speak for Councilmember Engler Councilmember or Mayor Pro Tem
[2:18:25] Walker.
[2:18:26] But I made a phone call to those
[2:18:30] representatives within the city of
[2:18:32] Riverbank that I developed a
[2:18:33] relationship with at the Mayor and
[2:18:35] Councilmember Academy and I said
[2:18:38] "Hell no, we don't need this Riverwalk
[2:18:40] community. Do you realize
[2:18:43] how much it's going to affect the city
[2:18:44] of Escalon?"
[2:18:46] And if I would have picked up the phone
[2:18:48] and just did a cold call, they would
[2:18:49] have probably been like, "Who the heck
[2:18:50] are you?"
[2:18:52] But but the power of networking and
[2:18:54] building those relationships
[2:18:57] I mean, let's face it. Every small city
[2:18:59] and similar to the city of Escalon
[2:19:02] is dealing with the exact same issues
[2:19:04] that we are with the state of
[2:19:06] California. And I truly believe that
[2:19:09] there's strength in numbers and how we
[2:19:11] can work together to push back.
[2:19:14] >> I I see what you're saying. I'm just
[2:19:16] saying
[2:19:18] when you start swimming with the sharks,
[2:19:19] just don't be surprised if you get bit.
[2:19:22] Okay, so
[2:19:23] that's all I got to say from my my side
[2:19:25] of it. But
[2:19:26] >> Okay.
[2:19:27] >> Like I said, I I was probably in the
[2:19:29] minority on that.
[2:19:30] I figured I was.
[2:19:32] >> It's okay.
[2:19:35] » Been there many times.
[2:19:39] Okay.
[2:19:40] >> Um can I go out to the public?
[2:19:42] >> Sure.
[2:19:42] >> Uh public, anyone like to speak on this
[2:19:45] subject at all?
[2:19:48] Gary, there's Gary.
[2:19:50] >> [clears throat]
[2:19:52] >> twice in a row.
[2:19:53] Having set your seat and Councilman
[2:19:57] Engler hit
[2:19:58] >> think the basic issue is education.
[2:20:01] And when you go to that first-time
[2:20:02] council member and mayors education,
[2:20:06] they're going to let it the new guy, new
[2:20:08] gal, new person
[2:20:11] know,
[2:20:12] this is your job.
[2:20:14] One, two, whatever.
[2:20:17] This is not your job. One through
[2:20:19] whatever. And almost as important as
[2:20:22] knowing what your job is, you need to
[2:20:24] know what your job is not. And people
[2:20:26] coming, you know, like all of us did the
[2:20:28] first time walk in, we don't know how to
[2:20:30] be a councilman.
[2:20:32] You know, we're we're there for, you
[2:20:34] know, to serve the public, but there's a
[2:20:36] lot of pitfalls you can get yourself
[2:20:37] into.
[2:20:38] Especially they go through the Brown
[2:20:40] Act.
[2:20:41] I think everybody is required to take
[2:20:44] Brown Act education now, but that gives
[2:20:47] you
[2:20:48] a foot in the door. You know, I like
[2:20:51] except for first-time council people,
[2:20:53] it's I think it should be mandatory or
[2:20:56] strongly suggested.
[2:20:58] Cuz you got to know what you can and
[2:20:59] cannot do.
[2:21:02] » All right. Anyone else out there?
[2:21:05] No?
[2:21:06] All right, bring it back to Oh, sorry,
[2:21:08] online.
[2:21:10] Okay, bring it back to the dais.
[2:21:12] Any last thoughts or does anyone want to
[2:21:15] Excuse [clears throat] me, humor a
[2:21:16] motion.
[2:21:18] >> No, I just want to know if Gary thinks
[2:21:19] I'm doing a bad job cuz I didn't go to
[2:21:20] this thing.
[2:21:21] >> [laughter]
[2:21:22] >> No, but the tutorial is very nice.
[2:21:25] Like it really is. It And and Jaylen
[2:21:28] wasn't here at the time. We weren't
[2:21:30] doing briefings when we got here. So you
[2:21:32] had the benefit of when you got here,
[2:21:34] did a great briefing with staff, did a
[2:21:36] great job on that.
[2:21:38] >> 2 hours of quality time with Frank
[2:21:39] instead of a meeting in Sacramento.
[2:21:40] [laughter]
[2:21:41] >> But it was really nice to go through
[2:21:43] that.
[2:21:45] At the time, Frank's team actually led
[2:21:47] the legal
[2:21:49] seminar. Very They made it very
[2:21:51] interesting. It wasn't as boring as
[2:21:53] >> It's not [clears throat] easy to do.
[2:21:54] >> Yeah, you know, and
[2:21:57] no, it was like Gary said, it was a very
[2:21:59] good experience. The the tutorial of
[2:22:01] what what to do and what not to do kind
[2:22:04] of.
[2:22:04] Um
[2:22:06] You're not doing a bad job.
[2:22:08] >> [laughter]
[2:22:10] >> Okay.
[2:22:10] >> I just want to say I know that Council
[2:22:13] Engel said one per year.
[2:22:15] I'm more on the mayor's and council
[2:22:18] member academy plus one per year is more
[2:22:22] of where I'm leaning on that one.
[2:22:26] I don't know if we're defining how many
[2:22:28] at this point either.
[2:22:29] >> The entire council or incoming members
[2:22:31] just so I'm clear.
[2:22:33] >> Entire council.
[2:22:34] >> Every two years?
[2:22:36] >> Highly No, just allowed to so I guess
[2:22:40] recommend highly recommended for new.
[2:22:43] Highly recommended for everybody really
[2:22:45] and then uh
[2:22:46] plus allowance for one more per year.
[2:22:51] >> I could get on board with that.
[2:22:53] Do you have any more thoughts on this
[2:22:55] side?
[2:22:58] We have a motion on anything or just
[2:23:00] still
[2:23:01] >> Do we need Okay.
[2:23:02] >> Still deliberating.
[2:23:04] I'll move to approve the city council
[2:23:07] travel and training policy
[2:23:09] with the stipulation of um
[2:23:13] attendance
[2:23:15] at the mayor and council member academy
[2:23:18] um
[2:23:19] strongly encouraged
[2:23:22] as well as one other additional event.
[2:23:26] Um
[2:23:28] keeping in mind that these are taxpayer
[2:23:30] dollars and to be good financial
[2:23:33] stewards
[2:23:36] of these monies.
[2:23:38] >> I'll second it just because that last
[2:23:40] writer you put on there.
[2:23:41] >> Just a point of clarification. The one
[2:23:44] the mayor's and council member academy
[2:23:46] is once every two years.
[2:23:47] >> Right.
[2:23:48] >> And you said one other conference, is
[2:23:50] that annually or is that also once every
[2:23:52] two years?
[2:23:53] >> Annually.
[2:23:54] >> Okay, so the one other annually and the
[2:23:56] mayors and council members, got it.
[2:23:57] Okay, just to make it clear.
[2:23:59] >> Okay.
[2:24:00] Uh,
[2:24:01] all in favor say I.
[2:24:02] >> I.
[2:24:03] >> All opposed say nay.
[2:24:04] >> One nay.
[2:24:07] » We'll go to the next one.
[2:24:11] Okay.
[2:24:12] That's a number 11.
[2:24:14] >> Number 11.
[2:24:16] >> All right,
[2:24:17] last item.
[2:24:19] So, uh, this item also being brought
[2:24:22] forward, uh,
[2:24:23] from an agenda item request by council
[2:24:25] members, and I believe largely stemming
[2:24:28] from some questions, comments, uh, from
[2:24:31] the community.
[2:24:32] And so, I'll turn it over in a in a bit
[2:24:35] to chief who will go through the full
[2:24:36] presentation outline outlining some
[2:24:39] candid pros and cons,
[2:24:41] um, for the technology. And we're
[2:24:44] talking about kind of digital
[2:24:45] surveillance and, um, automatic license
[2:24:48] plate readers.
[2:24:50] So, we understand that communities are
[2:24:53] the embodiment of ideals and values of
[2:24:55] the residents.
[2:24:57] So, to this end, we take, uh, requests
[2:24:59] to review, uh, procedures, piece of
[2:25:02] technology or equipment very seriously.
[2:25:05] Uh, we further understand that certain
[2:25:07] technologies, approaches, or equipment
[2:25:09] can be viewed differently over time,
[2:25:13] um, based on new information, changes in
[2:25:15] priorities, or changes in the
[2:25:17] community's ideals and values. And
[2:25:19] again, to that end, uh, we understand
[2:25:22] that our role is to ex- execute the
[2:25:24] community's will led by the council.
[2:25:28] Um, we further know that we cannot fully
[2:25:31] guard against the future or what every
[2:25:33] person will do with the tools at their
[2:25:35] disposal. Uh, what we can do is secure
[2:25:38] tools and work with the tools we have to
[2:25:40] maintain the community that the
[2:25:43] residents appreciate, like, value
[2:25:48] love in some cases.
[2:25:50] So, similar to radar technologies that
[2:25:52] was recently just implemented in
[2:25:54] vehicles, Flock cameras were a tool
[2:25:57] acquired based on input from the
[2:25:59] community and have been used to address
[2:26:01] the issues of the community.
[2:26:04] Um they've been used to solve crimes and
[2:26:06] we think probably are used to deter even
[2:26:09] more crimes.
[2:26:11] Um but of course we welcome the
[2:26:14] conversation
[2:26:16] about this technology, about the extent
[2:26:19] of use, about the pros and the cons.
[2:26:22] And so with that I'll turn it over to
[2:26:24] Chief to go through the presentation.
[2:26:42] » So, um
[2:26:43] automated automated
[2:26:45] to be automated license plate readers.
[2:26:48] So, this is going to cover kind of what
[2:26:50] they are and what they are how they work
[2:26:53] and how they're used.
[2:27:02] » You didn't give it back, huh?
[2:27:06] » I I did click it for you though.
[2:27:11] » So, ALPR stands for automated license
[2:27:14] plate readers. The technology lies in
[2:27:16] the software, not necessarily in the
[2:27:18] cameras. The only thing that ALPRs do is
[2:27:22] it'll take a picture, it scans that
[2:27:24] picture for the presence of a vehicle
[2:27:26] and presence of a license plate. It'll
[2:27:29] document features of that it'll
[2:27:31] categorize the vehicle into a category
[2:27:34] so it can be searched and it'll
[2:27:36] translate the license plate to text so
[2:27:38] it can be uh
[2:27:40] easily searched.
[2:27:43] Uh Escalon currently has five ALPR
[2:27:46] cameras. They were installed following a
[2:27:48] critical incident that occurred in
[2:27:50] October of 2022, which was the shooting
[2:27:53] at Family Dollar. It was brought up uh council meeting that the city should
[2:27:59] explore them and look into them. It was
[2:28:01] explored and they were installed in June
[2:28:05] of 2023 and the two on
[2:28:08] Highway 120 Caltrans permitting took a
[2:28:11] lot longer. So those were installed 6
[2:28:13] months later.
[2:28:16] So what is ALPR data? So this is an
[2:28:20] actual read of what an officer would
[2:28:22] get. This is a city truck. This is the
[2:28:23] truck I drive. Uh
[2:28:25] on a hit, what you'll get is the date
[2:28:27] and the time of a read, the image of a
[2:28:29] vehicle, uh
[2:28:31] that it will be categorized so it can be
[2:28:33] searched. So if you search black truck,
[2:28:36] this would pop up.
[2:28:37] Uh and then a zoomed image of the
[2:28:39] license plate. And then And then next to
[2:28:42] the zoomed image of the license plate is
[2:28:44] the license plate translated to text. So
[2:28:48] uh and the location of the camera. The
[2:28:50] first thing that happens as soon as a a
[2:28:51] read is made, it is the license plate is
[2:28:54] checked against a hot list, which uh
[2:28:57] primarily in uh in Escalon, what we use
[2:29:00] is what we have is uh stolen vehicles
[2:29:02] and missing persons. So let's say a
[2:29:04] vehicle comes back stolen, we get an
[2:29:06] alert that it's a stolen vehicle. We'll
[2:29:08] take a look at the hit. The first thing
[2:29:09] we do is look at the license plate and
[2:29:11] then look at the license plate number
[2:29:13] that it read. Uh
[2:29:16] say one out of 10 times,
[2:29:18] it's a false read where it read the
[2:29:20] license plate plate wrong, you just
[2:29:22] ignore it.
[2:29:26] How ALPR data is used. Uh initially, it
[2:29:29] was used to find stolen vehicles.
[2:29:31] They're positioned to capture vehicles
[2:29:34] coming into town.
[2:29:35] Um so we get a hit of a stolen vehicle
[2:29:38] and then we can go to that area, see if
[2:29:40] we can find the stolen vehicle. Uh now
[2:29:43] we use we use them a lot more to uh as
[2:29:47] investigative tools for cases.
[2:29:52] Uh an investigative tool for cases where
[2:29:54] we search through the uh where we can
[2:29:57] search for suspect vehicles.
[2:30:00] Uh
[2:30:01] let's say a
[2:30:02] burglary is committed over in a
[2:30:04] residential neighborhood. There's not
[2:30:06] really any leads. We got video
[2:30:08] surveillance We got rings of video
[2:30:09] surveillance of a person and a vehicle.
[2:30:13] We got no license plate number. It we
[2:30:15] can't identify who the person is. We can
[2:30:18] take that vehicle description and then
[2:30:20] we can run it through Flock to see if we
[2:30:22] can find it coming into town. Uh if
[2:30:25] we're able to possibly identify it,
[2:30:27] that'll give us a license plate number,
[2:30:29] which would give us the registered
[2:30:30] owner. And that does not mean that the
[2:30:33] registered owner is the suspect. It
[2:30:35] doesn't even always mean that the
[2:30:37] registered owner that that vehicle was
[2:30:39] involved in the crime. We still have a
[2:30:40] lot of investigation to do to tie the
[2:30:42] person to the crime. We don't arrest
[2:30:45] registered owners of vehicles because
[2:30:47] their vehicle was identified and
[2:30:48] involved in the crime. Uh
[2:30:51] we use investigative tools.
[2:30:53] We investigate further to determine
[2:30:54] whether or not an actual person was
[2:30:59] identify the person who committed the
[2:31:00] crime.
[2:31:01] And it can also be used as an
[2:31:04] exculpatory evidence.
[2:31:06] There was a great case shortly after we
[2:31:08] first got them.
[2:31:10] There was a guy walking by uh
[2:31:13] walking by the high school.
[2:31:15] There's a gun sitting on the bed of a
[2:31:18] vehicle.
[2:31:19] Just a handgun.
[2:31:21] Plain view. It's in the afternoon.
[2:31:24] Uh
[2:31:25] we get there.
[2:31:26] For sure it's a real gun. Seems like
[2:31:28] it's been sitting there for a while. And
[2:31:30] we go and contact the school. We
[2:31:32] identify who the truck belonged to. We
[2:31:34] identify who the kid was. The gun is
[2:31:36] registered to his father.
[2:31:39] And
[2:31:40] by all indications, it seemed like the
[2:31:42] kid brought the gun to school. He was
[2:31:44] probably showing it off at lunchtime,
[2:31:47] left it on the trunk of left it on the bed of the vehicle.
[2:31:52] He was adamant that, "No, I don't know
[2:31:54] how it got there. I was shooting over
[2:31:55] the weekend on my property, and I don't
[2:31:58] know how it got there. I must have left
[2:31:59] it there." His claim was that he drove
[2:32:02] into town, and it must have been on
[2:32:03] there as he drove into town.
[2:32:05] We're able to run it through the Flock.
[2:32:07] Sure enough, there's the
[2:32:08] image of his vehicle driving into town.
[2:32:11] You can clearly see the gun on the
[2:32:13] tonneau cover.
[2:32:15] If not for the Flock cameras, he
[2:32:17] probably would have been expelled, been
[2:32:19] arrested. This kid's life could have
[2:32:21] been ruined. It was It was completely
[2:32:23] exonerated by the Flock cameras. So,
[2:32:25] they're not just used to incriminate
[2:32:27] people. They can also be used to
[2:32:28] exonerate people and provide exculpatory
[2:32:30] evidence.
[2:32:32] Uh mistakes and misuse.
[2:32:35] Not going to lie, they do happen. So,
[2:32:39] from what I've uh this data, the oldest one that I found on this uh
[2:32:45] that indicated is 2018. Most of them are
[2:32:48] from '23, '24, and '25. So, in the past
[2:32:53] 3 to 4 years,
[2:32:55] give or take a couple more, uh
[2:32:58] there've been uh 148 documented
[2:33:00] incidents of mistakes or
[2:33:03] just misuse. There are approximately
[2:33:05] 18,000 law enforcement agencies that
[2:33:08] employ over 750,000 law enforcement
[2:33:10] officers.
[2:33:11] Over 5,000 agencies use ALPRs with an
[2:33:14] estimated 120,000 deployed uh from 2008
[2:33:18] uh in the to deployed. From 2008 to uh
[2:33:21] present, 148 documented incidents of
[2:33:24] mistakes or misuse. Most of the errors
[2:33:27] occur with uh
[2:33:29] officers putting vehicles, wanted
[2:33:31] vehicles onto a hot list, and not
[2:33:34] updating it. Uh I've since updated our
[2:33:36] policy to make it to where they can uh
[2:33:38] they have to expire after 4 days, and
[2:33:40] they can renew them, but they have to
[2:33:42] stay on top of it to make sure that
[2:33:44] they're you don't have old lists in hot
[2:33:47] lists.
[2:33:48] The other ones are a lot of
[2:33:50] maliciousness. Mostly officers
[2:33:54] looking up exes, girlfriends, husbands,
[2:33:57] boyfriends, and
[2:34:00] people that they're trying to date. Most
[2:34:02] of the
[2:34:04] all of the misuse and stalking,
[2:34:07] uh the officers have either resigned or
[2:34:09] been fired, and in many of the cases,
[2:34:12] they've been prosecuted. So, it is
[2:34:15] something that
[2:34:17] happens, and when it happens, officers
[2:34:19] are held accountable, and many times
[2:34:22] they're actually prosecuted in court for
[2:34:25] violations. So, there safeguards are
[2:34:27] already in place to prevent that, and
[2:34:29] they are used.
[2:34:32] So, all officers have an individual
[2:34:34] account that tracks searches. For all
[2:34:36] searches, officers must include the
[2:34:38] following information. They have to
[2:34:39] include the offense type, which the
[2:34:41] crime being investigated, a case number
[2:34:44] or an incident number, and then the
[2:34:46] reason for the search. They're looking
[2:34:47] for a suspect vehicle, looking for a
[2:34:49] wit- a victim vehicle, witnesses,
[2:34:52] missing persons.
[2:34:54] They have to indicate why, and
[2:34:56] all it's tracked on it's all tracked,
[2:34:59] and it can be audited. So, if there's
[2:35:00] any question, we can say, "Okay, this
[2:35:02] officer looked up this license plate
[2:35:04] number, or did a search." cuz it's not
[2:35:06] always a license plate number. "This
[2:35:07] officer did a search for this case
[2:35:10] number." We can easily go back and look
[2:35:11] up that incident, or look up that case,
[2:35:14] and make sure that uh
[2:35:16] that was a legit search. And I've
[2:35:18] recently implemented that they also must
[2:35:21] now uh There are times where you get a
[2:35:24] license plate, you run a license plate,
[2:35:26] but it's not the license plate you're
[2:35:27] looking for.
[2:35:28] >> [clears throat]
[2:35:29] >> That now has to be documented in their
[2:35:32] report why they ran every single license
[2:35:34] plate that they run. If they run a li-
[2:35:36] uh
[2:35:37] search for a specific license plate, not
[2:35:38] just uh
[2:35:40] for like make, model, color.
[2:35:43] And as noted before, to prevent outdated
[2:35:46] hot lists, uh
[2:35:48] they can no longer keep have a hot list
[2:35:51] entry valid for more than 4 days.
[2:35:54] For the features of Flock, the data is
[2:35:56] 100% owned by uh by us, by the Escalon
[2:35:59] Police Department or City of Escalon. We
[2:36:01] choose who we share it with, who has
[2:36:03] access to that. Uh as of right now, we
[2:36:06] share with multiple other law
[2:36:07] enforcement agencies, and that's it.
[2:36:11] Private customers never have access to
[2:36:14] uh Flock uh governmental Flock data. So,
[2:36:18] even if a private entity wanted to
[2:36:20] access or wanted to share with us, it
[2:36:23] wouldn't even be able to send a share
[2:36:24] request.
[2:36:26] Flock automatically deletes and
[2:36:27] overwrites data after 30 days. So, after
[2:36:30] 30 days, they delete it, and it's not
[2:36:32] only deleted, it's immediately written
[2:36:34] over, so that data cannot be recovered.
[2:36:37] And there are search filters as we went
[2:36:40] over before that require the reason it
[2:36:41] for the access with the permanent audit
[2:36:44] log that we can go back and track.
[2:36:47] So, fact versus myth.
[2:36:49] LPRs can track people and show police
[2:36:52] everywhere they go.
[2:36:55] Myth, the fact is LPRs take a
[2:36:57] point-in-time image of a vehicle
[2:36:59] traveling on a public roadway, which are
[2:37:01] deleted after 30 days. And you've
[2:37:03] already seen exactly what a hit would
[2:37:05] look like. Then myth, LPRs violate the
[2:37:08] Fourth Amendment. Appellate and district
[2:37:10] courts in at least 14 states, including
[2:37:13] the 9th Circuit, which is the most
[2:37:15] liberal, and the 11th Circuit, which is
[2:37:18] the most conservative, have upheld using
[2:37:20] evidence from LPRs as constitutional
[2:37:22] without requiring a warrant.
[2:37:26] Myth, Flock sells customer data,
[2:37:28] compiling all of it into a national
[2:37:30] database.
[2:37:31] Uh the fact is, we own 100% of our data,
[2:37:35] and Flock does not sell it. And then we
[2:37:37] decide what agencies we want to share it
[2:37:40] with, and there are laws that also
[2:37:42] govern that. In the state of California,
[2:37:44] we are prohibited from sharing our data
[2:37:47] with federal agencies, other states, and
[2:37:51] unlawful to be used for any type of
[2:37:53] reproductive right stuff.
[2:37:55] >> [snorts]
[2:37:55] >> Uh myth, Flock LPRs use facial
[2:37:58] recognition. Uh they do not use facial
[2:38:00] recognition, and the system cannot be
[2:38:02] used to search for human
[2:38:03] characteristics.
[2:38:07] And then the myth is LPRs don't have an
[2:38:09] impact on crime. So, San Diego Mayor
[2:38:12] Todd Gloria attributed a 20% decline in
[2:38:15] auto theft to Flock. San Francisco Mayor
[2:38:17] Daniel Lorey credited Flock LPRs for the
[2:38:20] 41% decrease in auto theft while
[2:38:23] increasing arrests for auto theft cases
[2:38:25] by 46%.
[2:38:26] Flock has been used to solve 30% of
[2:38:28] homicides in Oakland and San Diego. So,
[2:38:31] after reading this, I decided I'mma do a
[2:38:34] quick search of our stats. So, the chart
[2:38:37] is Echelon stats. So, a 10851 is the uh
[2:38:42] offense code for a stolen vehicle.
[2:38:44] In 2020, we had 21 cases with 10851 uh
[2:38:48] listed as an offense.
[2:38:50] And 21, we had 16, then 10, then 14, 11,
[2:38:54] 5, and 3, and so on. And then in the
[2:38:56] same year, it I compared the arrests for
[2:38:59] 10851 or 496D, which 496D is a penal
[2:39:03] code for possession of stolen vehicle.
[2:39:05] If you can't prove a person stole a
[2:39:06] vehicle, you would charge them with a
[2:39:08] 496D.
[2:39:09] So,
[2:39:10] in 2020, we had four arrests, then six
[2:39:13] arrests, then five arrests, and then uh
[2:39:16] the amount of cases with arrests because
[2:39:18] some Some cases you have multiple uh
[2:39:20] multiple arrests per case.
[2:39:23] So, if you look, uh 10-851 reports are
[2:39:27] kind of up there, kind of declining, but
[2:39:29] then kind of drops, then goes up, then
[2:39:32] goes down. In 2024, we had 11 uh 10-851
[2:39:36] reports
[2:39:38] or 11 stolen vehicle reports,
[2:39:40] uh 15 people arrested for theft vehicle
[2:39:44] theft, and then out of 13 cases, and
[2:39:47] that was the first year or full year we
[2:39:49] had uh Flock cameras.
[2:39:51] were installed in 2003,
[2:39:53] the following year we got in a spike in
[2:39:56] arrests, and then the following year our
[2:39:59] 10-851 or our vehicle theft reports have
[2:40:01] dropped precipitously along with our
[2:40:03] arrests. So, there was a huge spike, and
[2:40:06] the word got around, and [snorts] we're
[2:40:08] not getting hit with uh vehicle theft
[2:40:10] like
[2:40:10] we used to be. So, there is
[2:40:13] quantifiable data that after Flock
[2:40:15] cameras are installed, you do have an
[2:40:17] increase in vehicle theft arrests, and
[2:40:20] we have also seen that a drop in vehicle
[2:40:23] theft.
[2:40:25] Then data protection. So, Flock uses
[2:40:28] state-of-the-art framework with
[2:40:29] end-to-end encryption and uses the same
[2:40:31] level of protection of DoD servers.
[2:40:34] Uh They paid a top penetrating
[2:40:36] penetration testing firm to attempt to
[2:40:38] hack their system, which it failed.
[2:40:41] Employers It also employs a hacker
[2:40:43] bounty program where people are
[2:40:45] encouraged to try to find potential
[2:40:47] exploits with their system. They bring
[2:40:49] those exploits to Flock's attention, and
[2:40:51] they'll actually pay them uh for that
[2:40:53] information rather so they can fix it
[2:40:55] rather than have the information have
[2:40:57] somebody get in and leak
[2:41:03] Questions?
[2:41:05] >> [clears throat]
[2:41:06] >> Well, Chief, this is kind of where I'm
[2:41:08] coming from and I think I've already
[2:41:10] told you before
[2:41:12] Um, and I want to Sorry.
[2:41:14] >> You running? Okay.
[2:41:15] >> Uh
[2:41:17] >> [clears throat]
[2:41:17] [snorts]
[2:41:18] >> I do think that there's some validities
[2:41:19] to some to some of these technologies,
[2:41:21] but I do think there needs to be
[2:41:22] guardrails on them.
[2:41:24] Uh
[2:41:25] That being said
[2:41:27] you [clears throat] know, there needs to
[2:41:28] be a citizen In my opinion, there needs
[2:41:29] to be a citizen oversight committee on
[2:41:31] this
[2:41:32] that has an auditing process to make
[2:41:34] sure that's really what's going on. Do I
[2:41:36] trust our police? Absolutely. I think
[2:41:38] you guys do a great job. But at some
[2:41:40] point you're not going to be there if
[2:41:41] you retire or whatever. Heaven forbid
[2:41:44] it's an accident or something, right?
[2:41:46] So, we don't [clears throat]
[2:41:48] I don't want to see these things
[2:41:50] encroaching into our community any more
[2:41:52] than they already are on the outside of
[2:41:54] town. Okay, but I I don't think we need
[2:41:57] to be having 1984 with cameras on every
[2:42:00] corner. You know what I'm saying? So
[2:42:03] you know, there's there's what we call a
[2:42:05] price for freedom and freedom's not
[2:42:07] free. So, you do have to take some
[2:42:09] degree of risk to be a free individual,
[2:42:12] right? So
[2:42:14] my [snorts] my feeling is that um
[2:42:17] because [clears throat] the uh Chat Tree
[2:42:19] um
[2:42:21] uh Supreme Court decision on geofencing
[2:42:24] uh
[2:42:25] showing that it's a fourth vi- fourth
[2:42:27] amendment violation
[2:42:29] uh my concern is that this is going to
[2:42:31] go to the Supreme Court and be held to
[2:42:34] the same same situation because the
[2:42:37] nature of the the way that they won that
[2:42:40] lawsuit.
[2:42:42] That being said, in the meantime
[2:42:44] I reason I brought it here was because I
[2:42:48] want to make [clears throat] sure
[2:42:50] that there's oversight that as a
[2:42:52] community we're not allowing it to
[2:42:53] encroach any further.
[2:42:55] Uh that [clears throat]
[2:42:57] the software updates
[2:42:59] uh as much as I know you're saying that
[2:43:01] they're just license plate readers,
[2:43:03] which I get.
[2:43:05] Um [clears throat] I'm sure you're aware
[2:43:06] that there are softwares
[2:43:08] uh that do use facial recognition, auto
[2:43:12] audio, all that stuff can be uplinked.
[2:43:15] Yeah, they already do it in China. It's
[2:43:17] a technology is available. So, we need
[2:43:20] to make sure
[2:43:22] >> [clears throat]
[2:43:22] >> that
[2:43:23] if you're just using it for that,
[2:43:26] I personally have no problem with it.
[2:43:28] But, if you're using it uh
[2:43:31] in a way that Big Brother's coming in on
[2:43:33] you, or the state, or the nation
[2:43:35] national level, they're able to
[2:43:38] go through your information and and and
[2:43:41] then have pre-crime,
[2:43:43] that that's a concern for me as far as
[2:43:46] the Fourth Amendment process is
[2:43:47] concerned. So,
[2:43:50] my personal feeling is we need to have
[2:43:54] a oversight committee. We need to have
[2:43:58] uh hopefully language that would say
[2:44:00] we're not going to encroach into the
[2:44:02] city any further, and that software
[2:44:05] updates would be limited to license
[2:44:07] plate readers with no other technology
[2:44:11] upgraded into it.
[2:44:13] That's kind of where I'm coming from.
[2:44:15] Um I don't know how everyone else feels.
[2:44:18] >> Um since I I guess co-sponsored bringing
[2:44:21] this up here,
[2:44:22] um
[2:44:23] first you said something in your
[2:44:25] presentation I want to ask specifically,
[2:44:26] what agencies are we sharing this
[2:44:28] information with?
[2:44:29] >> Uh
[2:44:29] I'd have to look up, but there are
[2:44:31] several agencies.
[2:44:32] >> I I mean, is is it beyond
[2:44:34] county, local law enforcement, PDs?
[2:44:37] >> It is state.
[2:44:37] >> Are we sharing it with the federal government, I guess it is?
[2:44:40] >> No. So, there are laws that prohibit uh
[2:44:43] California entities from sharing ALPR
[2:44:45] data with um
[2:44:47] with federal agencies, or with uh
[2:44:50] non-California agencies. So, we couldn't
[2:44:52] even share with Nevada. We could only
[2:44:54] share interstate, and we see everybody
[2:44:57] that we share with, and we see everybody
[2:45:00] who uh
[2:45:01] can share with us, and we can
[2:45:05] remove people at will, and they can
[2:45:07] remove us.
[2:45:07] >> Found a California law that I actually
[2:45:09] appreciate. Uh that's great. Um so,
[2:45:12] here's my my take on these things, and
[2:45:14] uh obviously, you know, when they went
[2:45:15] up around town, you know, at first, you
[2:45:16] know, really they kind of went up with,
[2:45:18] you know, not many people noticing, and
[2:45:20] they recently have been noticed, and
[2:45:21] we've been getting a lot of uh
[2:45:23] conversations from the community about
[2:45:24] it. Um my experience goes a little
[2:45:26] further than that because of what I do
[2:45:28] for a living, um I can actually do a
[2:45:31] ALPR search on a vehicle based on its
[2:45:33] license plate number, uh VIN number,
[2:45:35] etc. And I have seen photos of vehicles
[2:45:38] sitting in their driveway, uh and not
[2:45:40] one, but seven or eight photos where the
[2:45:43] car has been shot in its own driveway
[2:45:45] multiple times by a police car driving
[2:45:47] by. Uh
[2:45:48] I know that we don't have those on our
[2:45:50] vehicles, uh
[2:45:52] and part of the reason, you know, why I
[2:45:54] am, you know, on board with bringing
[2:45:55] this agenda item uh forward for us to
[2:45:56] have this discussion, is that I want to
[2:45:58] be sure that we don't ever get there.
[2:45:59] That's not something that I think should
[2:46:00] be happening, and that I I 100% believe
[2:46:02] should be a Fourth Amendment violation.
[2:46:04] You are looking in someone's property at
[2:46:06] their vehicle. Uh I absolutely do not
[2:46:08] support that for any law enforcement
[2:46:10] agency to be doing.
[2:46:11] They're doing it looking for stolen
[2:46:13] vehicles.
[2:46:14] Uh
[2:46:14] >> Go ahead.
[2:46:15] >> If I can clarify, so I think you're you
[2:46:17] probably use Vigilant.
[2:46:19] >> Uh I don't know what company it is that
[2:46:21] we I requested through uh my
[2:46:23] >> Originally, ALPR was um
[2:46:25] Vigilant was the big pioneer in ALPR
[2:46:28] technology, and their primary thing
[2:46:30] wasn't law enforcement, it was asset
[2:46:31] recovery. And so, they would pay private
[2:46:34] people, and I think they still do, to
[2:46:36] put LPRs on their vehicles, just drive
[2:46:39] around neighborhoods, drive around
[2:46:40] parking lots, collect data. So, a lot of
[2:46:43] that data you're seeing is not collected
[2:46:45] by police officers, it's collected by
[2:46:47] private citizens that put the data that
[2:46:50] put LPRs on their cameras, and it's
[2:46:52] collected specifically for commercial
[2:46:54] purposes.
[2:46:54] >> Well, and I I
[2:46:56] definitely I know about that. I also
[2:46:59] 100% can confirm these are law
[2:47:01] enforcement vehicles. You can tell by
[2:47:02] the you know what you're seeing from the photo as it's taking it.
[2:47:05] Uh that it's definitely a police car.
[2:47:07] Flashing lights and all in some cases.
[2:47:09] Um you know, that that being said, you
[2:47:11] know, what what we use it for as an
[2:47:12] insurer is uh to verify damages. You
[2:47:15] know, we see you know the damage that
[2:47:16] doesn't quite look like it you know
[2:47:17] belongs to the claim that's been filed.
[2:47:19] Um we do these scans and and we look to
[2:47:22] see anytime that this vehicle's been hit
[2:47:23] previously on uh in ALPR, uh if that
[2:47:27] damage was existing prior to the loss
[2:47:29] date is essentially what we you know you
[2:47:30] utilize it for. That's a private company
[2:47:32] that is utilizing this information. So,
[2:47:34] my my you know, view of this, and like I
[2:47:37] said, can confirm 100% these are law
[2:47:39] enforcement vehicles. Um I have ridden
[2:47:41] in a Modesto police car uh on a
[2:47:42] ride-along, and you know, done uh these
[2:47:45] searches uh as we were driving around
[2:47:47] looking for stolen cars for a a shift.
[2:47:49] Um so, I think that you know, that
[2:47:51] specifically, you know, when we're
[2:47:53] talking about you know, people's
[2:47:54] property that we were we're now photoing
[2:47:55] you know, vehicles sitting inside their
[2:47:57] driveways, uh you know, that's a stretch
[2:47:59] way too far. You know, that I I do think
[2:48:01] that at some point that's going to end
[2:48:02] up uh going to the Supreme Court, and
[2:48:04] they're going to go, "No, that
[2:48:05] definitely is a fourth amendment
[2:48:06] violation." That said, these five
[2:48:08] cameras around town
[2:48:10] for the longest time, um I have
[2:48:12] children. They're all older at this
[2:48:14] point. My youngest is 15, and my oldest
[2:48:16] is 20. When I started having kids, one
[2:48:18] of my very first thoughts in this town
[2:48:20] with five exits into five different
[2:48:21] jurisdictions is how easy it would be
[2:48:23] for someone to kidnap my child and leave
[2:48:25] this town, and we have two officers that
[2:48:27] we may be able to possibly catch them
[2:48:30] with.
[2:48:31] Um so, the idea of having you know, the
[2:48:33] five cameras on you know, the five
[2:48:35] corners of town makes perfect sense to
[2:48:37] me. You know, in the instance we had
[2:48:39] something like the Family Dollar
[2:48:41] shooting, uh a child being abducted, um
[2:48:44] you know, there's a litany of reasons
[2:48:46] that they can come in very, very handy
[2:48:48] for us with those five cameras. Much
[2:48:51] like the mayor, I also recognize that
[2:48:53] China has, you know, gone so far as that
[2:48:55] if you drop a piece of trash on the
[2:48:56] ground, you can't use your ATM card for
[2:48:58] the day. That sort of thing and it's all
[2:49:00] done through, you know, facial
[2:49:01] recognition. We want to be sure that stuff doesn't, you know, come into
[2:49:05] our and penetrate our community without
[2:49:08] our knowledge, without us ever knowing
[2:49:09] that it's happening. You know, when that stuff, you know, does come forward,
[2:49:13] you know, if we do want to you know,
[2:49:14] move the needle and go for, you know, a
[2:49:16] little higher level of surveillance than
[2:49:18] what we currently have, I just want to
[2:49:19] be sure it either comes between, you
[2:49:20] know, five elected officials that
[2:49:21] they're members of this community or is
[2:49:23] put out to, you know, the rest of the
[2:49:25] community where they have, you know, the
[2:49:26] chance to come in here, stand at that
[2:49:28] podium and say, "Hey, I absolutely do
[2:49:29] not want a camera on Main Street where
[2:49:31] every time I cross it with my dog, you
[2:49:33] guys are watching me."
[2:49:34] You know, so that's, you know, kind of
[2:49:36] my take on this. You know, it's not that
[2:49:37] I have an issue with, you know, the
[2:49:38] system as a whole. Good to hear that we
[2:49:41] are the owners of of that data.
[2:49:43] I appreciate that clarification.
[2:49:46] We also pushed this item forward and
[2:49:48] said, "Hey, you know, we want to get
[2:49:49] this on the agenda sooner rather than
[2:49:50] later because of all the discussion
[2:49:52] going on in the community and we wanted
[2:49:54] to, you know, be accountable to the
[2:49:55] community for what it is that we had,
[2:49:56] you know, going on already and have you
[2:49:58] sit here and give this explanation to
[2:50:00] everybody, you know, and I every time
[2:50:01] someone asked me, you know, this
[2:50:02] question, I'm going to say, "Hey, go
[2:50:03] look, you know,
[2:50:04] 9:40 at, you [laughter] know, at
[2:50:07] Monday's meeting and and uh uh you know,
[2:50:09] go take a look what what Chief has to
[2:50:11] say. You know, he's obviously not lying
[2:50:13] and he's telling us exactly what it is
[2:50:15] that we're using them for.
[2:50:17] And and I think that, like I said, the
[2:50:19] five that we have, I think that they
[2:50:20] serve a very good purpose and I will
[2:50:22] tell you I've had,
[2:50:23] out of all the conversations that I've
[2:50:24] had, I've had three specifically that
[2:50:26] came at me as, "Why are you allowing
[2:50:28] this? You are not this kind of guy." And
[2:50:30] by the time the conversation was over,
[2:50:32] they went, "Okay, it actually makes a
[2:50:33] lot of sense for our town." You know, as
[2:50:35] long as it's, you know, parameters, parameters. So, more or
[2:50:39] less, the reason that, you know, I I got
[2:50:41] on board with bringing this forward is
[2:50:42] just so that we can put guardrails in to
[2:50:44] be sure that should the five of us not
[2:50:46] be here any longer, you not be here any
[2:50:48] longer, none of the staff still existing
[2:50:50] here, uh but we're still living in this
[2:50:51] community, that we still get a chance to
[2:50:53] walk up that podium ourselves and say,
[2:50:55] "Hey, no, we don't want that." You know,
[2:50:57] for whatever the reason is, or no, this
[2:50:59] is a good thing like the vibe that we
[2:51:00] currently have. So, that's uh that's my
[2:51:03] spiel on it. Uh oh,
[2:51:05] >> Cuz I I just had one more thing I wanted
[2:51:06] to add and then I'll ask everyone,
[2:51:07] sorry. Uh because there are instances
[2:51:11] where people have been jailed for for
[2:51:14] over LPRs that are aired.
[2:51:17] And then, you know, 2/3 of these traffic
[2:51:19] stops, nationally speaking,
[2:51:22] uh they're going in as a high-risk,
[2:51:25] you know, engagement.
[2:51:26] >> [clears throat and cough]
[2:51:27] >> Like, that puts our officers uh in a
[2:51:30] potential pickle if they accidentally
[2:51:32] shoot someone. You know, there's
[2:51:33] liabilities there, so like, if there if
[2:51:36] you [clears throat] don't already have
[2:51:37] those in place,
[2:51:39] like, what is our protocol when we come
[2:51:42] up to a car that has the situation? Some
[2:51:45] people would be, no big deal, some come
[2:51:47] out guns blazing, and we don't need an
[2:51:50] accident and then a lawsuit because of
[2:51:52] that. Right? So, like, we need to have,
[2:51:54] in my opinion, guardrails on this stuff
[2:51:57] so that the Fourth Amendment doesn't get
[2:51:59] violated. Uh and it may have already
[2:52:02] been violated based on the geofencing
[2:52:05] stuff, so we'll see, it'll be
[2:52:06] interesting to see what the sub the um
[2:52:08] Supreme Court ends up saying about this
[2:52:10] whole thing. But until that time, I
[2:52:13] think there needs to be guardrails. I
[2:52:15] just think that we can't be encroaching
[2:52:17] in the community. Uh you use
[2:52:19] [clears throat] it for what it's used
[2:52:20] for, which you obviously are. Uh the
[2:52:23] citizens uh have a
[2:52:26] an oversight committee so that we can
[2:52:28] guarantee them that they're being able
[2:52:30] to see the air rate and that the
[2:52:32] potential uses that is being audited. I
[2:52:35] know you're a pretty
[2:52:36] >> [clears throat]
[2:52:36] >> detailed guy, so you're probably
[2:52:37] auditing yourself, but it would I think
[2:52:40] it would sit better with the community
[2:52:42] if they have their own
[2:52:44] eyeballs on it as a community.
[2:52:47] Um
[2:52:48] so I I'm personally thinking that's
[2:52:51] where we need to go, but I don't know
[2:52:53] what their thoughts are with everyone
[2:52:55] else at the dais.
[2:52:56] >> If you don't mind, I want to make one
[2:52:57] more statement
[2:52:58] just about these things [clears throat]
[2:52:59] a bit before we we move on. You just
[2:53:01] jogged my memory about something. There
[2:53:03] was a a man, I believe, in Tennessee. He
[2:53:05] was pulled 12 times in 30 days, over and
[2:53:08] over again. He kept getting getting hit
[2:53:10] by the same Flock camera. His license
[2:53:12] plate had been entered incorrectly in
[2:53:15] place of a vehicle that had been stolen,
[2:53:17] and over and over again this guy was
[2:53:19] being pulled pulled over because he was
[2:53:21] still flagged on that system, and they
[2:53:22] weren't getting him removed off of it.
[2:53:24] So, he, you know, starts going through,
[2:53:25] you know, the motions of every time he
[2:53:26] gets pulled over, "Here's my license, my
[2:53:27] registration." Hands out the window.
[2:53:29] "This is not a stolen vehicle. I was
[2:53:30] just pulled over yesterday afternoon at
[2:53:32] 2:00 p.m.
[2:53:33] You know, check your guys's logs.
[2:53:35] You know, that that circumstance, you
[2:53:36] know, and
[2:53:38] So, again, when we talk about our
[2:53:40] officers, it's a little different than a
[2:53:42] lot of other officers. So, I don't mean
[2:53:45] any offense by this, but every
[2:53:48] interaction with a man with a gun is an
[2:53:51] opportunity for something to go wrong.
[2:53:53] You know, guy has a bad day. Now, this
[2:53:55] guy's been pulled over 12 times. When
[2:53:56] he's on his 13th time, is that the time
[2:53:57] that he goes, "You know what? You guys
[2:53:58] can, you know, and everything goes
[2:54:00] wrong." And he ends up getting shot for
[2:54:01] something that was law enforcement's
[2:54:02] mistake, you know.
[2:54:03] >> So, I
[2:54:07] » [snorts]
[2:54:07] >> As you saw, we you have when you get the
[2:54:10] hit, you get the license plate number,
[2:54:12] and you get what the what the actual license plate
[2:54:16] what it what it read.
[2:54:17] >> It didn't text, correct?
[2:54:18] >> You should First thing you should do is
[2:54:20] verify those. There are instances where
[2:54:23] it's wrong. We did have or the U-Haul
[2:54:25] vehicle, it flagged it hit as a stolen
[2:54:27] vehicle. We roll out there. We do a
[2:54:29] high-risk stop on it. We pull everybody
[2:54:32] out at gunpoint. Yeah, freaked everybody
[2:54:34] out. It's a high-risk It is a high-risk
[2:54:36] stop. It turned out that
[2:54:39] the U-Haul was reported stolen.
[2:54:43] Uh
[2:54:44] the It got recovered and brought back to
[2:54:47] a shop in Riverbank and was supposed to
[2:54:50] be flagged to not be rented out. For
[2:54:52] whatever reason, it wasn't flagged. They
[2:54:54] rented it out before it was removed
[2:54:58] >> [snorts]
[2:54:58] >> from Fruit removed it stolen. They had a
[2:55:01] truckload of stuff they were trying to
[2:55:03] get to I can't remember where, but they
[2:55:04] had a truckload of
[2:55:06] equipment. They still had a couple more
[2:55:08] runs to do. I don't know how it works in
[2:55:10] Tennessee. We were able to do a recovery
[2:55:12] and remove that vehicle from the stolen
[2:55:14] vehicle system right at that point in
[2:55:16] time. Or not right at that point in
[2:55:18] time, but as soon as we cleared, we cut
[2:55:19] them loose. We let them go. We're able
[2:55:21] to remove the vehicle remove vehicle
[2:55:24] from stolen stolen vehicle system. So,
[2:55:27] yes, that that can happen.
[2:55:30] >> Well, I guess it could happen, but it
[2:55:32] it's all in the way that you approach
[2:55:33] the situation, right? So, like if you're
[2:55:36] going in there high high-risk thinking
[2:55:39] this guy's got a weapon and he pulls out
[2:55:42] a broom or something and you freaking
[2:55:44] knock him down.
[2:55:46] Right? That's a problem.
[2:55:48] >> We do
[2:55:48] >> That's a lawsuit for us.
[2:55:49] >> Yes, but we do a We do high-risk stops
[2:55:51] for uh various reasons and we have had
[2:55:55] instances where officers have
[2:55:57] been right behind the vehicle. The
[2:55:58] officer runs the plate wrong. It comes
[2:56:00] back as stolen and they do a high-risk
[2:56:02] stop on them.
[2:56:03] >> Yeah.
[2:56:03] >> Mistakes happen and Flock is not immune
[2:56:06] to mistakes, but as you can see from the
[2:56:08] accountability the what the website for
[2:56:11] accountability
[2:56:12] officers are being held accountable for
[2:56:14] their actions.
[2:56:15] >> I I get it, but I think that we need to
[2:56:17] have an internal policy, I guess, is
[2:56:18] what I'm getting at. That
[2:56:21] when we do have something like this,
[2:56:23] we're not just instantly going from zero
[2:56:24] to 60,
[2:56:26] right? We got to have some sort of like
[2:56:28] okay, we pull them over, let's
[2:56:30] double-check the stuff before we're
[2:56:32] lighting them up, you know what I'm
[2:56:33] saying?
[2:56:34] I guess is what I'm getting at.
[2:56:36] >> And also, that is the reason if you look
[2:56:38] at the LPR data that I put in the
[2:56:41] council report every month, we have
[2:56:44] a whole lot of stolen vehicle or stolen
[2:56:46] license plate hits and very few stolen
[2:56:48] vehicle hits.
[2:56:50] Stolen license plate hits, we don't even
[2:56:52] respond to anymore because
[2:56:54] I've when we first got them, I used to
[2:56:56] go and stop people for them, and I have
[2:56:59] not got one that was not your front
[2:57:01] license plate was stolen, back license
[2:57:04] plate is still on the vehicle. So, I
[2:57:05] have not gotten a stolen license plate
[2:57:07] stop that
[2:57:09] was
[2:57:10] >> legitimately warranted.
[2:57:11] >> Exactly. And so, I don't even stop for I
[2:57:14] don't even set my I don't even get
[2:57:16] alerts for stolen license plates, and I
[2:57:18] don't think any of
[2:57:19] our other officers
[2:57:20] >> Okay, well, I guess that's like a
[2:57:22] the kind of thing I'm talking about as
[2:57:24] far as
[2:57:25] um
[2:57:26] universally through your crew having a
[2:57:31] um a process by which we're thinking
[2:57:33] through these things and eliminating the
[2:57:36] potential for collateral damage and
[2:57:38] liability because clearly
[2:57:41] just what you're describing to me is
[2:57:43] we're seeing the potential for something to be misinterpreted or
[2:57:48] you know, that kind of thing. So, as far
[2:57:51] as like the outside cameras, like I was
[2:57:53] telling
[2:57:54] um K, it comes with K's. I don't have
[2:57:56] necessarily a problem provided it's not
[2:57:59] encroaching,
[2:58:00] provided it's not
[2:58:02] software updates aren't coming into
[2:58:04] these things allowing for next level,
[2:58:07] you know, social credit score type stuff
[2:58:09] because this is the this is the type of
[2:58:11] stuff
[2:58:13] that creeps, and it creeps, and it
[2:58:15] creeps, and eventually we're going, "Oh,
[2:58:18] are we living in 1984?
[2:58:20] The book, you know, because we started
[2:58:22] with this kind of stuff and we didn't
[2:58:24] put guardrails on it.
[2:58:26] So, I think that there needs to be at
[2:58:27] very least guardrails.
[2:58:30] Any Anyone else? Sorry, we've been
[2:58:32] talking a lot.
[2:58:33] >> May I ask you a few questions?
[2:58:35] All right. Um
[2:58:36] so, these might seem very basic and
[2:58:39] » [clears throat]
[2:58:39] >> I I just don't want to assume, right?
[2:58:41] So, we'll just ask them out loud. Um but
[2:58:43] are these cameras Are they um permanent
[2:58:46] and fixed or are they mobile and on a
[2:58:49] trailer?
[2:58:49] >> Oh, no, they're permanent affixed.
[2:58:51] >> Are affixed. And then when you receive
[2:58:55] the data, do you go to the camera,
[2:58:58] download it manually onto like a thumb
[2:59:01] drive, bring it back, and then look at
[2:59:03] the data, or is this
[2:59:05] uh Bluetooth, wireless, Wi-Fi?
[2:59:08] >> Oh, it's all cellular-based. It's
[2:59:10] cloud-based. So, every camera's got a
[2:59:13] essentially a modem and a transmitter.
[2:59:15] [clears throat] So, it's constantly
[2:59:17] feeding data to the cloud and it's being
[2:59:19] That's how we receive alerts. So,
[2:59:22] if it
[2:59:23] The only real analytics that Flock does,
[2:59:28] as far as processing data or analyzing
[2:59:30] data, is as soon as a as soon as it
[2:59:33] makes a read, it'll check that license
[2:59:35] plate against the list of known stolen
[2:59:37] vehicles or against the hot list. And if
[2:59:40] it's on a hot list, it'll send an alert
[2:59:43] to all the users that have it set for to
[2:59:47] uh trigger off of that hot list.
[2:59:49] >> And then are these received within the
[2:59:51] vehicles as well as in the office or one
[2:59:54] or the other?
[2:59:55] >> Uh cell phones and um
[2:59:58] cell phones and email.
[3:00:00] >> Okay.
[3:00:01] Uh and then my other question is why do
[3:00:03] we choose the company Flock?
[3:00:06] And why not another company? Why not
[3:00:08] another camera?
[3:00:11] >> Right now, there's kind of there's
[3:00:12] three. There's kind of a upstart account
[3:00:14] I think it's called Ranker or something
[3:00:15] I can't remember the third company but
[3:00:18] when we were looking into it there were
[3:00:20] two primary companies there was Vigilant
[3:00:22] and there was Flock. Vigilant was the big dog in town and
[3:00:31] they were the big company they were the
[3:00:33] they had the most users
[3:00:35] um
[3:00:36] Flock some of the perks to Flock
[3:00:40] which was at the time they were
[3:00:41] partnered with Axon
[3:00:43] and so that was one of the things that
[3:00:45] kind of leaned us towards Flock along
[3:00:47] with the fact that Flock was dedicated
[3:00:50] law enforcement and safety um
[3:00:53] Vigilant was more commercial it was
[3:00:56] again like I said it was more it was
[3:00:58] established for more asset recovery
[3:01:00] banks insurance companies and stuff like
[3:01:02] that uh
[3:01:04] Flock was all just dedicated was
[3:01:06] dedicated for law enforcement and public
[3:01:08] safety police security parking garages
[3:01:11] and stuff like that and communities and
[3:01:13] stuff uh also Flock at the time had uh
[3:01:17] solar options and I
[3:01:20] don't think Vigilant had a solar option
[3:01:22] at that time where uh they all had to be
[3:01:25] hardwired so if we wanted to get
[3:01:27] Vigilant cameras we had to get power to
[3:01:30] everywhere we wanted them Flock they
[3:01:32] operate off of solar and also the cost
[3:01:36] for Flock was cheaper than Vigilant so
[3:01:39] there are multiple factors that led us
[3:01:40] to Flock.
[3:01:42] >> Okay thank you.
[3:01:43] >> Um any other thoughts over here?
[3:01:46] Uh Mr. Wingfield what are your what are
[3:01:47] your thoughts?
[3:01:48] >> Yeah I'll just keep them brief
[3:01:50] >> [clears throat]
[3:01:51] >> or I'll try.
[3:01:52] Uh I mean I think in general if we're
[3:01:53] worried about living in a police state
[3:01:55] we're we're we're too late right and if
[3:01:57] we're on our computer at our microwave
[3:01:59] on our phones I mean I'm carrying two
[3:02:01] tracking devices with me third if you
[3:02:04] want to count my watch every day and
[3:02:05] everywhere I go.
[3:02:07] Um
[3:02:09] So, you know, from that perspective I I
[3:02:11] think that we're late, right? But
[3:02:14] uh
[3:02:16] I I don't disagree with I think with
[3:02:18] what the mayor's asking for, which is
[3:02:19] some guardrails. So, I was just looking
[3:02:21] at the agenda item request and
[3:02:23] uh the under the recommended motion
[3:02:26] under B, it says remove any potential
[3:02:27] for software updates which violate uh our fourth amendment.
[3:02:33] I [clears throat] would think just to
[3:02:34] even add that that you know, that they
[3:02:36] would need to be any any potential
[3:02:38] software changes need to be approved
[3:02:40] through council regardless of what they
[3:02:42] are just so that there's information
[3:02:44] that's able to be shared with the
[3:02:45] public.
[3:02:46] Uh but I but I do see the the benefit uh
[3:02:49] as far as
[3:02:51] seeing who's coming in and out of our
[3:02:52] town. It For me, even if we didn't have
[3:02:55] them, just just go down the street cuz
[3:02:57] the next agency does. I mean, in every
[3:02:58] direction I think on Manteca's council
[3:03:00] meeting tonight, they have proposed
[3:03:02] another six to their like
[3:03:04] 90-some or whatever they've got going on
[3:03:06] in town already. Uh similar as you jump
[3:03:09] off into Modesto, you're going to grab
[3:03:10] it there. Oakdale, I'm sure. And then
[3:03:12] obviously Stockton's going to have them
[3:03:13] as well. So,
[3:03:15] um I don't think there's any avoiding
[3:03:16] them at this point. So,
[3:03:19] limiting the amount of information
[3:03:20] that's able to be gathered, if if that's
[3:03:22] even something that we'll be able to do
[3:03:25] in the future. So,
[3:03:26] I I totally get on board with with some
[3:03:29] type of requirement that that we can't
[3:03:31] change providers or um
[3:03:35] or software
[3:03:36] uh without council's approval. Um
[3:03:40] And as far as adding any additional
[3:03:42] cameras, I think that would be a two.
[3:03:43] That would be something that would would
[3:03:44] run through council as well.
[3:03:48] Um
[3:03:49] Councilmember Scharmann, do you have any
[3:03:51] thoughts on this?
[3:03:52] >> Actually,
[3:03:53] I have a question for Chief and then I
[3:03:54] have a question for you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:03:56] >> Yeah.
[3:03:57] >> Um Chief, respecting
[3:04:01] confidentiality of law enforcement.
[3:04:04] Can you walk me through the process of
[3:04:08] let's say City of Modesto
[3:04:12] reaches out and wants information.
[3:04:15] How how does that process work?
[3:04:19] >> Uh
[3:04:20] So, once we share data through Flock,
[3:04:22] the it's an integrated system. So, if we
[3:04:25] punch in a license plate, so when you're
[3:04:28] doing the search for a vehicle, like
[3:04:31] let's say you're looking for a specific
[3:04:33] uh you got a we got a
[3:04:35] suspect vehicle, it's a black Ford
[3:04:38] truck. Uh it came in came through the
[3:04:40] town approximately this time. We would
[3:04:42] do a search for black Ford truck and if
[3:04:44] we could find something that we thought
[3:04:46] was the suspect vehicle to get a license
[3:04:48] plate off of it, we would then run just
[3:04:50] that license plate uh through a more
[3:04:53] in-depth search and then running it
[3:04:55] through the further search kind of shows
[3:04:57] us all the cameras that it hit off of.
[3:04:59] So, if you do a search for a license
[3:05:01] plate number, it automatically searches
[3:05:04] the camera networks that we are
[3:05:06] connected with.
[3:05:07] >> And how far out does that that camera
[3:05:10] network extend?
[3:05:13] » Like I said, I'm
[3:05:15] not sure, but we we share with hundreds
[3:05:18] of California agencies.
[3:05:20] >> Okay.
[3:05:21] >> [snorts]
[3:05:22] [clears throat]
[3:05:22] >> So, my question for you, Mr. Mayor and
[3:05:25] Council Member Kay,
[3:05:26] how do you envision this
[3:05:30] citizens oversight committee? I mean,
[3:05:32] what are what in particular what are
[3:05:33] they what are they like?
[3:05:35] >> we need an auditing committee of
[3:05:37] citizens,
[3:05:38] maybe three people, so it's
[3:05:40] you know, it's odd,
[3:05:42] that
[3:05:43] >> [clears throat]
[3:05:44] >> once or twice a year go through an
[3:05:45] auditing process with the chief
[3:05:48] and present that information to us or to
[3:05:52] the community to make sure that
[3:05:54] everything's on the up and up,
[3:05:56] uh which I know it will be and I'm not
[3:05:59] This is not an assault on you, Chief. I think our cops are awesome. They do a
[3:06:03] great job here.
[3:06:04] I'm looking at the [clears throat]
[3:06:05] potential for it to be abused.
[3:06:08] Potential for a turnover in uh policing,
[3:06:11] council, all that stuff in the future.
[3:06:15] And then uh all of a sudden, I'm sitting
[3:06:18] in my front yard and I've got cameras on
[3:06:20] me
[3:06:21] eating my sandwich. You know what I'm
[3:06:23] saying? Like
[3:06:24] uh I think [clears throat] at some point
[3:06:27] it is over the top.
[3:06:29] And
[3:06:30] >> [clears throat]
[3:06:30] >> my line in the sand, personally, is
[3:06:33] the the the
[3:06:35] outskirts of town. I think anything in
[3:06:37] town is a is encroaching and I'm
[3:06:41] be interested to see what comes of the
[3:06:42] geo fence uh the the actual lawsuit when
[3:06:45] it gets to the the Supreme Court because
[3:06:47] it's already heading that way from my
[3:06:50] research on it.
[3:06:51] Um so in the meantime, while we're
[3:06:54] waiting, I don't want to step on the
[3:06:56] toes of the police to get to be able to
[3:06:58] use this to
[3:07:00] help you guys. It's a tech It's a
[3:07:02] technology and a tool.
[3:07:04] But at the same time, we got to make
[3:07:06] sure that our citizens aren't getting,
[3:07:08] you know,
[3:07:09] rolled up uh
[3:07:11] or accidentally abused and you not
[3:07:13] intentionally, right? Things that would
[3:07:16] potentially happen like
[3:07:19] uh I mean, I'll give you that example
[3:07:21] you used with black
[3:07:22] vehicle. Um I mean, that same exact
[3:07:25] scenario happened down in San Diego and
[3:07:28] a guy spent a month in jail and an
[3:07:30] innocent man was in a jail for a month
[3:07:33] because of uh
[3:07:34] human error.
[3:07:36] And And that's the kind of stuff that we
[3:07:38] have to have an internal policy,
[3:07:40] whatever you guys come up with
[3:07:43] for those potential approaches, so that
[3:07:46] stuff doesn't happen, a procedural
[3:07:48] thing.
[3:07:49] A citizen oversight committee, so we can
[3:07:51] guarantee to the citizens that yes, even
[3:07:55] though we know Chief is 100% uh a very
[3:07:58] honest guy, um that's confirmed. You
[3:08:01] know what I'm saying?
[3:08:03] And the other part of it is
[3:08:06] um
[3:08:07] the encroachment part. So, I mean, if I
[3:08:09] were to say what I would want it to look
[3:08:11] like, a three-person
[3:08:13] oversight committee meets with Chief and
[3:08:16] the city manager, maybe lawyer, however
[3:08:18] that would look. Uh maybe you have one
[3:08:21] council member on that board or
[3:08:22] something, and
[3:08:25] you have an oversight over it. You look
[3:08:27] at it. What's the error rate?
[3:08:29] Are we having any potential concerns
[3:08:31] with it? I mean, down in uh Illinois's
[3:08:34] Oak I think it was called Oak Valley or
[3:08:36] Oak
[3:08:37] Let me look it up real quick. Sorry. It
[3:08:39] was called
[3:08:42] Let me see here.
[3:08:44] In Illinois's Oak Park, Illinois, where
[3:08:46] they implemented that.
[3:08:48] >> [clears throat]
[3:08:48] >> They were coming up with a 30%
[3:08:51] That's a huge number to me. Error rate.
[3:08:54] In
[3:08:54] once they implemented the citizen board.
[3:08:57] So, like, those are the kind of things
[3:08:59] that
[3:09:00] help, I think, us
[3:09:02] guarantee the community that they're not
[3:09:04] going to have a problem, but at the same
[3:09:06] time
[3:09:08] uh you know, allows you to still use
[3:09:10] your technology
[3:09:12] to get those license plates when you
[3:09:13] need to.
[3:09:14] Um
[3:09:15] so, I would think that's one part of it
[3:09:18] when I flesh it out. The other part of
[3:09:20] it is to leave to is is no no further
[3:09:22] encroachment in the town. Like, where
[3:09:24] they're at now is where they're going to
[3:09:26] be 10 years from now, in theory.
[3:09:29] Kind of thing. And then the last part of
[3:09:31] it is like Councilman Casey saying the
[3:09:34] software update needs to be
[3:09:36] something that uh is guaran- is is
[3:09:39] specifically for license plates.
[3:09:42] You don't end up putting it on there and
[3:09:44] all of a sudden it's looking at faces.
[3:09:46] Now it's looking at Lord knows what
[3:09:49] else. Now [clears throat] I go grab a
[3:09:51] beer at the store and my social credit
[3:09:53] score drops. You know, all that kind of
[3:09:55] stuff that really has to be
[3:09:59] guard railed. You know what I'm saying?
[3:10:01] So, that's that's kind of where I'm
[3:10:03] coming from and to answer your question.
[3:10:06] >> Well, I'm
[3:10:06] clear on that. So, when you say update,
[3:10:08] you're you're talking update software
[3:10:11] updates that will add additional
[3:10:13] features beyond license plate
[3:10:16] >> Correct.
[3:10:17] >> reading.
[3:10:17] >> Correct.
[3:10:19] Cuz the original intent is to use to see
[3:10:21] the license plates, right?
[3:10:22] >> Yeah, I don't I don't think he's
[3:10:23] referring to just technology updates to
[3:10:26] prevent glitches.
[3:10:27] >> And they're they're constantly just like
[3:10:29] that's that's where you pay the
[3:10:30] subscription fee.
[3:10:32] They've got [clears throat] cloud base
[3:10:33] where they're doing protection, so
[3:10:34] they're constantly running updates,
[3:10:35] fixing fixing but fixing patches. So,
[3:10:37] this is the type of stuff that's
[3:10:38] constantly being updated, but they're
[3:10:40] not constantly adding new features.
[3:10:41] >> Which which I get get. I get that. But,
[3:10:43] I also look at most of these elites, if
[3:10:47] you call them that,
[3:10:49] um use China as their model, right? And
[3:10:52] in those systems, they there already
[3:10:55] exists software that can be input on
[3:10:58] this system
[3:11:00] uh
[3:11:00] and can be used to abuse or violate the
[3:11:04] Fourth Amendment on another level,
[3:11:07] right? So,
[3:11:09] Yeah, so well, yeah, that's true and and
[3:11:12] but not everyone is with their phone
[3:11:14] 24/7. You know what I'm saying? I mean,
[3:11:17] some people are, but I don't. Um
[3:11:20] so, so this is the thing I'm looking at
[3:11:23] is I just want to make sure we guarantee
[3:11:25] that. It's I mean, you know what they
[3:11:27] say about assuming things, right? So,
[3:11:29] that's not where we want to be is what
[3:11:31] my opinion.
[3:11:33] >> Well, now I'll also add that I I think
[3:11:36] this is a good conversation to have and
[3:11:38] just the fact that we can have this
[3:11:40] conversation and
[3:11:42] we can have the open debate about it.
[3:11:45] Goes to show just how different we are
[3:11:47] from the places like China.
[3:11:49] >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm
[3:11:52] just making sure that I do my own due
[3:11:54] diligence to make sure that um when I
[3:11:58] look back on my life
[3:12:00] my grandson's not like, "Grandpa, what
[3:12:02] the heck you do?" You know what I'm
[3:12:04] saying? [clears throat]
[3:12:05] So so that's where I'm thinking I try to
[3:12:08] look and project forward. How could this
[3:12:10] potentially be abused? And where does
[3:12:12] that potentially go, right? When you
[3:12:15] flush it out, the way you're using it
[3:12:17] currently really isn't a big deal.
[3:12:20] When you start to flush that out though,
[3:12:22] that's that's a big meatball, so to
[3:12:24] speak. Um
[3:12:26] oh wait.
[3:12:28] Is any anyone else have anything before
[3:12:29] you go to the audience?
[3:12:31] >> Well, yeah. My second question that I
[3:12:33] was going to ask
[3:12:35] was um
[3:12:37] Chief, when Flock runs an update
[3:12:39] software update, do they explain
[3:12:41] [snorts] to you what's included in the
[3:12:43] update? Does it say security patch or
[3:12:46] does it say
[3:12:48] just an update's been ran. So my
[3:12:51] question is now is Chief having to turn
[3:12:54] into an IT guru to try to understand
[3:12:57] what what was included in that
[3:12:59] >> [clears throat]
[3:12:59] >> update?
[3:13:00] >> May I say something here?
[3:13:02] If they're going to provide new
[3:13:04] capabilities, new technology, they're
[3:13:06] going to they're going to monetize that.
[3:13:09] And they're going to they're going to
[3:13:10] their sales people are going to go to
[3:13:11] the police department and they're going
[3:13:12] to say, "Would you like to do X and Y?"
[3:13:14] They're not going to do it gratis.
[3:13:17] There have been iterations of Flock
[3:13:19] through the years with I've seen with
[3:13:20] several of my cities and clients that I
[3:13:22] have do work with.
[3:13:24] They've never once given any new
[3:13:26] features free. They do updates all the
[3:13:27] time. Security patches, glitches, that
[3:13:30] kind of thing. But in terms of new
[3:13:32] technology, we will know when it occurs
[3:13:34] cuz they will say for you know, X more
[3:13:36] amount of month, you can have this as
[3:13:37] well.
[3:13:38] >> It makes sense.
[3:13:39] >> new feature for speed that they're
[3:13:40] trying to sell me on a few months ago
[3:13:42] and I didn't want to pay for it.
[3:13:44] >> And the other thing, too, is that would
[3:13:46] be picked up, in theory, by an auditing
[3:13:48] committee.
[3:13:50] That's why
[3:13:50] >> And I think that the expansion of
[3:13:52] features like like that is again
[3:13:54] something that we are requesting that we
[3:13:55] be notified of if there is ever anything
[3:13:57] that takes place like that, rather than
[3:13:59] us having to explain to the community
[3:14:01] after the fact, like these five cameras.
[3:14:03] >> What they charge for that kind of stuff,
[3:14:05] it would need council approval.
[3:14:07] >> Okay. Good to know.
[3:14:08] >> Yeah.
[3:14:09] >> Any other thoughts before I put it out
[3:14:10] to the public?
[3:14:11] >> Last question.
[3:14:12] >> Oh, go for it.
[3:14:13] >> For Chief.
[3:14:16] Do you think the use of Flock cameras
[3:14:18] since 2023 has benefited the city of
[3:14:21] Escalon?
[3:14:22] >> Undoubtedly, yes.
[3:14:26] » I wouldn't argue that.
[3:14:27] What I'm looking at is
[3:14:29] >> Mission creep.
[3:14:30] >> Yeah, mission creep.
[3:14:32] >> Well, I I understand that, guys, but if
[3:14:33] you carry a cell phone, they already
[3:14:35] know where you're at. So, where's the balance?
[3:14:38] >> You can put it down and it's private and
[3:14:41] it's an option and this is not an
[3:14:42] option.
[3:14:43] That's the difference. The difference is
[3:14:45] the government is surveilling you
[3:14:47] instead of you surveilling yourself.
[3:14:49] >> I I agreed to these terms and
[3:14:51] conditions. I did not agree to you to
[3:14:52] the terms and conditions of Chief
[3:14:53] knowing every time I come in and out of
[3:14:54] town.
[3:14:55] >> Yeah. No.
[3:14:56] >> That's the difference.
[3:14:57] >> That's it.
[3:14:57] >> Um are you okay with me putting it out?
[3:14:59] >> Sure.
[3:15:00] >> Uh public, uh anyone in the public would
[3:15:02] like to speak to this situation.
[3:15:04] >> [cough and clears throat]
[3:15:06] >> Excuse me.
[3:15:08] >> I would Um Chief, I got a question.
[3:15:10] >> Mhm.
[3:15:11] >> Last month we had a
[3:15:12] 182 hits, right? Or leads, correct?
[3:15:16] >> Yes.
[3:15:16] >> And two hits, correct?
[3:15:18] >> Uh
[3:15:19] we still have four hits, I'm pretty
[3:15:20] sure.
[3:15:20] >> Yeah, that sounds about right.
[3:15:22] >> And so, were were those investigated?
[3:15:24] Were those cited? What what happened
[3:15:25] with those?
[3:15:26] Cuz my whole thing is if we're only
[3:15:27] using it for stolen vehicles, right?
[3:15:31] How much are we paying for that a month
[3:15:32] and is it really necessary? If it was
[3:15:34] just two hits, they can't even cuz you
[3:15:35] don't even go after the stolen license
[3:15:37] plate hits, right? What are the
[3:15:38] benefits?
[3:15:40] >> So, if you look at the total hits
[3:15:43] >> It was 180 or 852,000.
[3:15:45] >> That's total hits. Most of those are
[3:15:48] stolen license plates. We don't like I
[3:15:50] said, like I explained, going after
[3:15:52] stolen license plates, they're
[3:15:55] there's the error the margin of error in
[3:15:57] not getting the right vehicle is so
[3:15:58] high, we don't even go after them. The
[3:16:00] stolen vehicle, we will go after. The
[3:16:03] benefit is not just for the stolen
[3:16:04] vehicles, it is for the investigative
[3:16:06] tool where I mean, if you look at the
[3:16:10] report, I did indicate in this report
[3:16:12] and of there were three cases where
[3:16:13] health yards were used. One of them we
[3:16:15] actually identified the person that
[3:16:17] stole a bike and uh
[3:16:20] we know who they are. We're seeking a
[3:16:22] warrant for their arrest. There's
[3:16:24] another one where we've identified the
[3:16:26] vehicle.
[3:16:28] We identified We identified the vehicle,
[3:16:30] we just couldn't tie a person to the
[3:16:32] crime. So, we don't just get the license
[3:16:35] plate, say, "Okay, this is the vehicle,
[3:16:37] this is the license plate, we're going
[3:16:38] to go arrest the owner for a crime."
[3:16:40] It's We got the license plate. Now, this
[3:16:42] is an investigative tool. We can use
[3:16:44] this to see which people had access to
[3:16:46] this vehicle at the time of the crime to
[3:16:48] see if we can tie an actual person to
[3:16:50] the crime. No, I I get that. I
[3:16:51] understand that. What I'm I guess
[3:16:55] Just based off July, though, right?
[3:16:58] There was 182 hits, which means illegal
[3:17:00] activity, correct?
[3:17:02] >> So, a hit is an alert.
[3:17:04] >> Right. Well, well, I'm just saying. So,
[3:17:05] >> The hits are the hot list hits. Those
[3:17:07] are not officer searches.
[3:17:09] >> So, it's just that What I'm saying is
[3:17:11] that I'm pretty sure there was only two
[3:17:12] stolen vehicle scans last month.
[3:17:13] >> Correct.
[3:17:14] >> Right. So, what came of those two hits?
[3:17:17] >> Uh
[3:17:17] the vehicles were not located.
[3:17:19] >> So, nothing, right? So, the whole month
[3:17:22] we used those cameras just to watch
[3:17:23] people coming in and out of town or
[3:17:25] Well, what last What I'm asking is like
[3:17:27] month. Like last month for instance. And like your little screenshot with that data right there. Are those
[3:17:33] tied directly to you the use of Flock
[3:17:34] cameras?
[3:17:35] >> Uh
[3:17:36] the ones for 2024 are.
[3:17:38] >> So, every one of those arrests were tied
[3:17:39] directly from the use of our Flock
[3:17:41] cameras.
[3:17:41] >> I'm not going to say every one of them,
[3:17:43] but if you if you can see it's threefold
[3:17:46] from the year prior and the only
[3:17:48] difference is we got the Flock cameras.
[3:17:51] And I know the first year
[3:17:53] we had them, we were running hard cuz I had I got a couple of the stolen
[3:18:00] vehicles cuz every time we got an alert,
[3:18:01] we would respond to them and we would
[3:18:03] respond to the vehicle respond to the
[3:18:05] stolen vehicle alerts when we can.
[3:18:07] Again, we had two two alerts for stolen
[3:18:09] vehicles.
[3:18:10] If I'm busy on a call, if let's say you
[3:18:13] got your
[3:18:15] something happened, I'm taking a report
[3:18:16] from you. I get an alert, oh we got a
[3:18:18] stolen vehicle coming into town on
[3:18:20] Highway 120. I'm not going to break what
[3:18:22] I'm doing with you to go chase down the
[3:18:25] stolen car which I might not find. And
[3:18:27] the hits, just because it's a hit
[3:18:29] doesn't mean it's a good hit. As he
[3:18:31] said, the license plate it's reading
[3:18:33] does not mean it's the license plate
[3:18:35] that it was. There are several times,
[3:18:36] like I said, I would say at least one in
[3:18:38] nine. 30% seems kind of high, but if you
[3:18:41] said 10 to 15%
[3:18:43] >> that was
[3:18:44] >> I wouldn't lie or I wouldn't argue with
[3:18:46] that because there are times you see the
[3:18:49] license plate what it read, you see the
[3:18:50] license plate and you're like, oh it
[3:18:52] read a three and it should be an eight
[3:18:54] or it read an S when it should be an E.
[3:18:56] And you you look at it and it registered
[3:18:58] as a hit, but it wasn't a hit and you
[3:19:00] can disregard it and you don't even have
[3:19:01] to go out.
[3:19:02] >> Right, I'm not I'm not questioning what
[3:19:03] you're doing your job right or what's
[3:19:04] wrong. My question is from what people
[3:19:06] I've heard talk to you is are they
[3:19:08] really necessary?
[3:19:10] Are they a necessity for our town?
[3:19:13] And compared to how much I mean we how
[3:19:15] much do they cost a month to run? How
[3:19:16] much does the software cost? You know,
[3:19:18] people are just I mean just assuming
[3:19:19] like are they a real necessity? Do we
[3:19:21] really need those here? I mean, if
[3:19:23] you're going down that highway in there
[3:19:24] in Manteca, you're going down there,
[3:19:25] they're in Oakdale. You're going this
[3:19:26] way, they're in Modesto. I mean, are
[3:19:27] they really a necessity here in town?
[3:19:29] >> Each camera is about $2,400
[3:19:32] per year.
[3:19:33] And we close We close a lot more cases
[3:19:37] now than we have using Flock. We Like I
[3:19:40] said, we
[3:19:41] just last month there was a stolen bike
[3:19:43] or two stolen bikes that we were able to
[3:19:45] identify the suspects actually two
[3:19:47] suspects and get warrants for their
[3:19:48] arrest. And I would say at least every
[3:19:51] month there's probably a case that we
[3:19:53] solved and identified suspects based off
[3:19:55] of Flock cameras.
[3:19:57] >> Okay.
[3:19:59] That's my question.
[3:20:01] >> Thank you.
[3:20:01] >> Uh next person
[3:20:04] » [clears throat and cough]
[3:20:07] » Uh the community I came from
[3:20:10] Mr. Mayor, they not only stole your damn
[3:20:13] sandwich, but they probably stole your
[3:20:14] truck.
[3:20:16] So they could take it home, you know? So
[3:20:18] I just
[3:20:19] you got to put up some safeguards and I
[3:20:21] understand there's got to be oversight
[3:20:22] and all that kind of stuff, but I'm 100%
[3:20:25] behind the chief in the in the use of
[3:20:27] whatever kind of technology that's
[3:20:30] within reason and I think this is within
[3:20:32] reason.
[3:20:33] So
[3:20:34] I'm all for you and I'm all for law
[3:20:36] enforcement
[3:20:37] and keep this community safe. It's a
[3:20:40] nice little place.
[3:20:41] >> It is. It is.
[3:20:42] Glad you're part of it now.
[3:20:44] >> Thank you all. You're doing a great job
[3:20:45] in
[3:20:46] >> Uh ooh, there's Sherry coming up.
[3:20:52] » Um
[3:20:53] first of all
[3:20:55] >> [clears throat]
[3:20:56] >> I don't know about your three things,
[3:20:58] you know, and the and the citizen
[3:20:59] oversight. I I think really you could
[3:21:01] probably accomplish what you want to do
[3:21:04] very easily just by
[3:21:06] codifying it. In other words, the
[3:21:08] cameras we have, that's what we have.
[3:21:10] There will be and then state no cameras
[3:21:13] within, you know, residential areas. Um
[3:21:16] no audio ever to be done, no facial
[3:21:20] recognition. You can be done within
[3:21:22] codes. You know what I'm saying? I mean,
[3:21:24] we could do that. You you you all can do
[3:21:26] that. You can put those codes on this
[3:21:28] system and problem solved as far as
[3:21:32] what can be done in the future. We've
[3:21:33] already codified it. The where we have
[3:21:36] the cameras, quite frankly, I think
[3:21:38] they're wonderful. And being a grandma
[3:21:40] with small children, I think they're
[3:21:41] awesome. Um, I'm behind it 1,000%. Not
[3:21:46] on my street.
[3:21:48] Cuz it's my private street. It's like I
[3:21:50] have cameras on the outside of my home.
[3:21:53] I don't have cameras inside my home. So,
[3:21:55] it's the same kind of concept. So, just
[3:21:58] codify it. I mean
[3:21:59] >> Well, that's kind of what I'm getting
[3:22:00] at.
[3:22:00] >> Yeah, so just codify it. I mean, it's very simple. Just say, "What we
[3:22:03] have now on the major arteries, those
[3:22:06] are the cameras that we're going to use.
[3:22:07] You know, keep them updated, keep
[3:22:09] updating the software, whatever needs to
[3:22:11] be." Then also put in the code, "No
[3:22:13] audio, no facial recognition."
[3:22:17] You know, if if something comes down in
[3:22:18] the future and then there's going to
[3:22:20] have to be a fight in this room over
[3:22:22] changing it. You see what I'm saying?
[3:22:23] That would be really simple to do. Um,
[3:22:27] if you do pursue citizen oversight, I I
[3:22:30] want to make sure that they're not like
[3:22:31] looking at the cameras, they're not
[3:22:32] looking at information, they're not
[3:22:34] looking, they're just looking at data.
[3:22:35] Is that correct?
[3:22:36] >> Correct.
[3:22:37] >> If you
[3:22:38] choose and you have to go that way, I'll
[3:22:40] volunteer. But, um, otherwise, I I think
[3:22:42] you can do it within code. I really do.
[3:22:45] >> I
[3:22:45] think you can in theory to a certain
[3:22:47] extent, but
[3:22:49] Um, anyone else?
[3:22:53] » [clears throat]
[3:22:55] >> Excuse me.
[3:22:57] >> Cassie.
[3:22:58] >> Um, yeah, I have some questions. Uh,
[3:23:01] you say that we only have access to this
[3:23:03] data. Correct? Where's stored? On the
[3:23:06] cloud?
[3:23:08] But, the company has access to it.
[3:23:09] Correct?
[3:23:11] >> Well, I mean
[3:23:11] >> What I read online. Anybody who works
[3:23:14] there can technically access that data.
[3:23:17] >> Right.
[3:23:18] >> And they all answer to their investors,
[3:23:19] correct?
[3:23:21] >> Well, they answer to their
[3:23:23] >> They have multiple investors.
[3:23:24] >> Well, they also have customers and if
[3:23:26] they started doing that, then again, one
[3:23:28] of the reasons that Flock became so
[3:23:30] popular in law enforcement field was
[3:23:34] their uh
[3:23:36] their dedication to law enforcement and
[3:23:38] Vigilant is a commercial company. They
[3:23:42] do sell They do sell their data. They do
[3:23:45] monetize their data. They do
[3:23:46] commercialize their data. Flock
[3:23:49] does not. Are they lying?
[3:23:51] It's a possibility.
[3:23:53] >> Yeah.
[3:23:53] >> But
[3:23:54] why would they do that? And then they're
[3:23:55] going to ruin their credibility and
[3:23:57] everybody's going to flee to another
[3:24:00] company. Again, there's another company
[3:24:01] that's starting up trying to draw
[3:24:03] business from Flock. I can't remember
[3:24:05] their name, but there is a third company
[3:24:06] now getting in the mix.
[3:24:07] >> Got it. I'm just saying that there is
[3:24:09] room for that kind of stuff to happen.
[3:24:12] And it I feel like it was
[3:24:15] which I get you feel like it's very
[3:24:16] safe.
[3:24:18] But there is room for it to not be.
[3:24:20] Cuz you have this data that you're
[3:24:23] collecting from our community that we
[3:24:25] didn't agree to
[3:24:27] out
[3:24:28] and about.
[3:24:29] >> But also, there are no laws that
[3:24:31] prohibit private companies from
[3:24:32] collecting LPR data. So, let's say we
[3:24:35] didn't have cameras and Flock decided to
[3:24:37] Okay, we're going to make it We're going
[3:24:38] to do We're going to go We're going to
[3:24:41] follow the Vigilant model. We're going
[3:24:42] to do commercial Flock. Flock as a
[3:24:44] company could just put up cameras that
[3:24:47] we're not purchasing, collect that data,
[3:24:49] and then sell that data to us.
[3:24:51] >> Which I mean, I get, but that's not
[3:24:52] something that we can control, right?
[3:24:54] Th- This is something that we can have a
[3:24:57] conversation about and control.
[3:24:59] >> Right.
[3:24:59] >> I'm about controlling things I can
[3:25:00] control and not the things that I can't
[3:25:02] control, cuz I'll go crazy.
[3:25:04] So,
[3:25:06] I do have a problem with private
[3:25:09] companies having access to data
[3:25:13] um
[3:25:14] in our community. I mean, I told my
[3:25:16] 6-year-old daughter, she goes, "Where
[3:25:18] are you going? Why are you dressed up?
[3:25:20] Where are you going?"
[3:25:21] I said, "Oh, I'm going to go talk to the
[3:25:23] city cuz you know,
[3:25:25] we got these cameras that I don't really
[3:25:26] appreciate." And she goes,
[3:25:29] "There are cameras watching me in my
[3:25:31] city?" And I'm all, I mean, even the
[3:25:33] 6-year-old gets it, right?
[3:25:35] So, I want to make sure that
[3:25:41] people who shouldn't have our
[3:25:42] information don't have our information.
[3:25:44] And I feel like if
[3:25:47] we're putting up cameras,
[3:25:49] we're allowing other people into our
[3:25:51] lives that
[3:25:53] don't necessarily need to be there.
[3:25:55] If it was going just directly to you,
[3:25:58] fine, but it's not. It's it's out there
[3:26:00] for everybody. And I don't I don't like
[3:26:03] that. And
[3:26:06] uh
[3:26:07] I mean, as far as police officers using
[3:26:09] it,
[3:26:10] I mean,
[3:26:11] those victim numbers are the ones you
[3:26:14] guys caught, right? I mean, as far as
[3:26:17] police officers misusing, I'm sure
[3:26:19] there's way more than that. I personally
[3:26:21] have been a victim of a police officer
[3:26:24] doing things that they shouldn't do, and
[3:26:26] I know it happens.
[3:26:27] And I'm sure there are many more that
[3:26:29] aren't caught. I'm not saying you guys
[3:26:30] are doing that.
[3:26:32] But I'm just saying
[3:26:33] I agree that guardrails absolutely need
[3:26:35] to be put on this
[3:26:37] if we do keep them up.
[3:26:40] Thank you guys for listening.
[3:26:41] >> Thanks for your input.
[3:26:43] Any- anyone else?
[3:26:46] Online?
[3:26:49] Bring back to the dais. Um
[3:26:51] anyone else have any other thoughts or
[3:26:53] >> Had a one quick question for for Chief
[3:26:56] that uh she just sparked for me.
[3:26:58] It'd [clears throat and cough] be a
[3:26:58] violation of their contract if they
[3:26:59] started selling it pri- privately,
[3:27:02] right?
[3:27:02] >> Most likely, yeah.
[3:27:03] >> I mean, I would be sure there's
[3:27:04] something in that contract that that
[3:27:06] states
[3:27:07] >> Yeah.
[3:27:07] >> uh for governmental protection, right?
[3:27:09] So, they would be violating their
[3:27:10] contract if they went sold the uh the
[3:27:12] data to an outside entity that was not
[3:27:14] law enforcement. So, uh you know, aside
[3:27:16] from that, you know, as far as getting
[3:27:18] hacked or or any you know, I mean, every
[3:27:19] device that we carry, the the Ring
[3:27:21] cameras on our houses, uh you can't walk
[3:27:23] down the street without being recorded
[3:27:24] by something that can absolutely be
[3:27:26] being hacked and be be tracing you. We
[3:27:28] just want to ensure that as a government
[3:27:30] that we are not doing any more than what
[3:27:34] we feel is uh
[3:27:35] absolutely necessary for the community.
[3:27:38] Um the only other thing that uh I really
[3:27:40] have um I I wonder if rather than us
[3:27:43] establishing a committee, would we maybe
[3:27:45] be better to just have an annual update
[3:27:48] or a biannual update,
[3:27:50] uh you know, from the chief where he
[3:27:51] brings the the information in here and
[3:27:53] it shows it to the community the same
[3:27:54] way they did tonight?
[3:27:56] >> Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be against
[3:27:58] that.
[3:27:58] >> And the only reason I mentioned that is
[3:27:59] that we've had such a hard time filling
[3:28:01] our Measure P committee. Uh you know, I
[3:28:03] don't know how many uh you know,
[3:28:05] volunteers we're going to get for this.
[3:28:07] >> I mean, I wouldn't necessarily be
[3:28:08] against it as long as
[3:28:10] if we're getting the answers we need to
[3:28:11] get and there's no confusion, like it's
[3:28:14] a streamline process. I know Chief knows
[3:28:16] what he's talking about and doing. I
[3:28:18] just I'm [clears throat] looking at more
[3:28:20] the future of how it could potentially
[3:28:22] go and it could be a real slippery slope
[3:28:24] and you know, we could be talking about
[3:28:28] uh going sideways real quick, you know,
[3:28:30] with that kind of stuff. So,
[3:28:33] But but to that point, Mr. I think
[3:28:35] Sherry [clears throat] brings up a
[3:28:37] very valid point and
[3:28:39] put it in the Escalon Municipal Code.
[3:28:41] Make
[3:28:41] >> Well, that's what I'm talk That's what I
[3:28:43] was trying to get to is that
[3:28:46] I would
[3:28:48] Is everyone done talking?
[3:28:49] >> No.
[3:28:50] Okay. Um
[3:28:52] well, I was I was wanting to make a
[3:28:54] motion at at point,
[3:28:56] but I'll give it to you. Pro tip, what
[3:28:59] do you got?
[3:28:59] >> Okay, so one thing I missed on the first
[3:29:01] time around
[3:29:03] >> [clears throat]
[3:29:04] >> something I'm uncomfortable with because
[3:29:07] police officers to surveil must be in
[3:29:11] view, right? So, they cannot be hiding
[3:29:14] behind a bush.
[3:29:15] Right?
[3:29:16] >> What do you mean?
[3:29:17] >> Uh the police car has to be
[3:29:19] viewed on the side of the road.
[3:29:22] You can't like be hiding in the side of
[3:29:24] the
[3:29:25] >> Like when we're working traffic or
[3:29:26] something.
[3:29:27] >> Yeah, yeah, we can.
[3:29:28] >> Okay. Well, I am still uncomfortable
[3:29:30] with there not being signage on the
[3:29:34] cameras, right? So, like you are being
[3:29:37] you are in a public space, you have you
[3:29:39] are being surveilled. Like you should be
[3:29:41] able to tell people that you are being
[3:29:44] watched by a camera. The government
[3:29:46] should be telling you. So, I am very
[3:29:48] uncomfortable with having
[3:29:50] I don't know. I'm really uncomfortable
[3:29:52] with having hidden police officers
[3:29:53] everywhere.
[3:29:55] >> [laughter]
[3:29:55] >> Not here, but everywhere.
[3:29:56] Uh but uh that there is not any signage
[3:30:00] on the surveillance
[3:30:02] uh cameras. So, I just want to put that
[3:30:04] out there before you go on your
[3:30:06] um
[3:30:08] monologue.
[3:30:09] >> Sorry.
[3:30:10] >> That's okay. Um
[3:30:12] with the systems in general before and
[3:30:14] while I get here, I am very worried that
[3:30:16] this is a violation or will be a
[3:30:18] violation of our fourth amendment
[3:30:19] rights.
[3:30:21] Um and this is like a warrantless search
[3:30:24] in general. Like that's that's it.
[3:30:26] There's no warrant for the search and
[3:30:28] everybody I if somebody want to know if
[3:30:30] I was in town or out of town, they could
[3:30:32] say I'm in town or out of town and I
[3:30:34] don't like that as an individual
[3:30:35] citizen. I should be able to go come as
[3:30:37] I please without the government knowing
[3:30:40] where I am.
[3:30:42] Um not that I'm doing anything wrong,
[3:30:44] but I'm an individual sovereign citizen
[3:30:47] apart from the government entity and
[3:30:50] those are supposed to remain separate.
[3:30:52] Um the other thing that has nothing to
[3:30:55] do
[3:30:56] with the Well, it does actually. Uh I
[3:30:58] don't like setting up the infrastructure
[3:31:01] for a mass surveillance system, whether
[3:31:03] it's today or in the future. And that
[3:31:05] mass surveillance system I'm very
[3:31:07] uncomfortable with. If we end up moving
[3:31:09] forward, I would be more comfortable
[3:31:11] with this to be a mobile system and not
[3:31:14] just setting in stone that we have like
[3:31:18] in the cement that we have a mass
[3:31:20] surveillance system in and out of our
[3:31:22] cities.
[3:31:23] Um I would be more comfortable with that
[3:31:25] and then I would be more comfortable
[3:31:26] with signage on the um
[3:31:29] cameras themselves. And then I like the
[3:31:31] codification, not in residential areas,
[3:31:34] right? So, okay. That's before.
[3:31:37] That's what I got.
[3:31:39] >> Anything [clears throat] else, though?
[3:31:43] Okay.
[3:31:44] >> Okay, Chief.
[3:31:45] >> All right. Well, I'd like to make a
[3:31:46] motion
[3:31:47] to um if we're going to keep the the
[3:31:51] cameras we currently have
[3:31:53] >> [clears throat]
[3:31:53] >> that we codify
[3:31:55] um
[3:31:57] not in any residential
[3:32:00] and we keep it to the
[3:32:02] uh current five cameras we have.
[3:32:05] Um
[3:32:06] that no software updates
[3:32:09] uh that have new technologies be allowed
[3:32:13] until it's been brought to the community
[3:32:16] forum.
[3:32:18] Um
[3:32:20] Excuse me. [clears throat]
[3:32:21] Um and if
[3:32:23] the Supreme Court does rule on it being
[3:32:26] a Fourth Amendment violation, that we do
[3:32:29] remove those uh if it does come down to
[3:32:33] that.
[3:32:34] Um
[3:32:37] Is there anything I'm missing?
[3:32:40] >> I think
[3:32:40] >> Oversight.
[3:32:41] >> Oh, yeah. And then auditing process, I
[3:32:44] would be be with initially doing uh once
[3:32:47] your auditing process through the
[3:32:49] community with Chief.
[3:32:51] And if it looks like there's a concern
[3:32:53] there,
[3:32:54] uh then we can at that point flush it
[3:32:57] out.
[3:32:58] Um
[3:33:00] Yeah, that would be my motion.
[3:33:02] >> So, just to be clear, the auditing the
[3:33:04] Chief would basically do an annual
[3:33:05] report
[3:33:07] >> [clears throat]
[3:33:07] >> uh
[3:33:08] >> Yeah, cuz it's important
[3:33:09] how many error rates there are.
[3:33:12] Uh has anyone been shot because
[3:33:14] >> understand that. I understand what's
[3:33:15] important and why it's important. I'm
[3:33:16] just saying you want Chief to do that.
[3:33:19] >> Um well
[3:33:20] >> Cuz you said through the community.
[3:33:21] >> I would like the community to play a
[3:33:22] role in that, so
[3:33:24] >> Well, then we have to spend time
[3:33:25] discussing what that means because
[3:33:27] >> Okay.
[3:33:28] >> you just opened a can of worms by saying
[3:33:29] through the committee.
[3:33:30] >> Okay. Well, through a
[3:33:32] um
[3:33:34] You want to do oversight from council
[3:33:36] member?
[3:33:38] Two? Probably two, right? At least two.
[3:33:41] >> Two council members in Cherry Hill?
[3:33:43] >> Yeah.
[3:33:44] >> So, if you If you If you create erect
[3:33:46] some kind of committee now, that's going
[3:33:48] to be subject to the Brown Act.
[3:33:49] >> Okay.
[3:33:50] >> So, then you guys can all meet with the
[3:33:51] Chief and discuss doing an audit with
[3:33:53] Brown Act and public comment. You just
[3:33:55] be careful about what you're opening up
[3:33:57] in terms of making it more difficult and
[3:33:59] onerous. Cuz I think part of the idea
[3:34:01] was to be able to review this sort of
[3:34:03] and there's going to be discreet
[3:34:05] investigation. There's going to be
[3:34:06] There's going to Sorry, discreet
[3:34:07] information and stuff that is
[3:34:09] confidential investigative materials as
[3:34:10] well.
[3:34:11] >> Correct.
[3:34:12] >> And then you're going to have
[3:34:12] non-subject matters reviewing the
[3:34:14] subject matter experts. And then you got
[3:34:15] to be careful who's on the committee cuz
[3:34:17] you may get defund activists that are on
[3:34:19] the committee.
[3:34:20] So, you just have to be careful and
[3:34:21] think through all these things. I think
[3:34:23] a basic report out from the Chief on
[3:34:25] annual basis
[3:34:25] >> Why don't we start there? And then we
[3:34:27] can research that other stuff.
[3:34:29] >> You can get legal advice on that one.
[3:34:32] >> So, but Mr. Mayor, that would be the
[3:34:34] motion. Oh, sorry.
[3:34:36] >> Um
[3:34:36] Instead of doing a a yearly report, um
[3:34:39] maybe just to drive greater
[3:34:41] transparency. Uh
[3:34:43] quarterly or
[3:34:45] every 6 months as opposed to
[3:34:48] >> [clears throat]
[3:34:48] >> How much of a concern is that to your
[3:34:50] working schedule?
[3:34:52] >> I mean
[3:34:52] >> What?
[3:34:54] Is that a a big problem?
[3:34:55] >> to figure out exactly what's going to go
[3:34:57] in these audit reports. Once I figure
[3:35:00] out what the audit report's going to be,
[3:35:02] it shouldn't be too difficult to pull
[3:35:04] the information.
[3:35:05] >> I just
[3:35:06] >> On point of order, we have a motion on
[3:35:08] the table.
[3:35:09] >> You're right.
[3:35:10] >> Um I'll second the motion.
[3:35:12] >> Okay. All in favor say aye.
[3:35:14] >> Aye.
[3:35:15] >> All opposed say nay.
[3:35:16] >> Nay.
[3:35:17] >> Okay. So
[3:35:19] we are done for the night.
[3:35:23] Okay. I think we're done for the night.
[3:35:24] Uh we'll go to council communications
[3:35:26] then. Um
[3:35:28] Councilman Ingle, let's start on your
[3:35:29] side this time.
[3:35:30] >> Yeah, thank you. Let me just pull up the
[3:35:31] notes here.
[3:35:35] Um okay. So uh lots of stuff in the
[3:35:38] news, you know, about uh potentially
[3:35:40] extreme weather in in the winter with,
[3:35:42] you know, a high likelihood of there it
[3:35:44] being an El Niño season. Um so what what
[3:35:47] I was hoping is that
[3:35:50] uh we could make sure to review uh and
[3:35:53] have a plan in place
[3:35:55] uh for
[3:35:57] um storm preparedness uh just in case we
[3:36:00] do experience uh you know, large
[3:36:02] quantities of water like we did last
[3:36:03] season just to make sure that we're
[3:36:04] thoroughly equipped to handle
[3:36:07] um the event and and have all
[3:36:09] contingencies in place. So I'd like to
[3:36:11] get that um on the agenda if I can get
[3:36:13] consensus from
[3:36:14] >> I would back I would back that.
[3:36:16] >> Thank you. Appreciate that. And uh it's
[3:36:18] been long enough night. That's all I
[3:36:19] have. Thank you.
[3:36:22] >> Councilman Stroman.
[3:36:24] >> Sure. I'll make my comments brief. Uh
[3:36:28] It's good to be back. Uh
[3:36:31] started a new job recently which is
[3:36:34] um
[3:36:36] requiring a lot of extra road time. So,
[3:36:39] the first meeting of the month I
[3:36:41] had to attend an overnight event in
[3:36:43] Santa Clara.
[3:36:45] Last week I had to attend a
[3:36:48] school board meeting.
[3:36:49] So, I apologize to
[3:36:52] this council and the community for not
[3:36:53] attending the last two meetings. Uh
[3:36:56] fortunately the the job called.
[3:36:58] Um
[3:37:00] only other thing I'd like to dis- just
[3:37:03] have a discussion on um
[3:37:06] really want to look at
[3:37:08] um
[3:37:09] our
[3:37:11] uh weed abatement uh policy at a future
[3:37:15] meeting.
[3:37:16] Uh last Friday night the Lions Club held
[3:37:20] one of their um
[3:37:22] car shows at Hula's.
[3:37:25] I was uh at the Bonnie's. I walked over
[3:37:28] and the field behind Hula's was quite
[3:37:32] honestly an embarrassment.
[3:37:34] It was an embarrassment for
[3:37:36] the city. It was an embarrassment for
[3:37:39] Hula's. It was an embarrassment for the
[3:37:41] Lions Club. It was just really a poor
[3:37:43] reflection of our city.
[3:37:45] So,
[3:37:47] today
[3:37:49] uh the old property owner decided to cut
[3:37:52] everything down
[3:37:54] and just leave everything.
[3:37:56] That was their way of
[3:37:58] resolving the issue. And so now they've created an even bigger issue
[3:38:03] cuz
[3:38:04] now you have grass and trash. So, and I
[3:38:08] understand
[3:38:09] it's a sensitive issue because there are
[3:38:11] some community members that can't afford
[3:38:14] um weed abatement.
[3:38:17] But, those I think those are the
[3:38:19] anomaly. So, I just want to look at the
[3:38:22] our policy and see
[3:38:25] cuz right now I mean correct me if I'm
[3:38:27] wrong, city manager, but
[3:38:29] we send letter after letter after letter and I wouldn't be behind it
[3:38:34] if we're not looking at like a
[3:38:36] compliance officer. No. Like I I don't
[3:38:39] want to be targeting citizens.
[3:38:41] Absolutely. Um, so
[3:38:44] if if it's but if we can look into like
[3:38:48] how we can maybe make that policy have
[3:38:50] more teeth.
[3:38:51] >> That's exactly what I'm trying to figure
[3:38:53] out.
[3:38:53] >> Yeah, I would be behind that.
[3:38:55] >> Yes, for sure.
[3:38:55] >> Because cuz it's it's a poor reflection
[3:38:58] of the community and
[3:39:00] I mean,
[3:39:01] not expectation is not somebody driving
[3:39:03] around looking for these things but
[3:39:06] really adding more teeth to the policy.
[3:39:08] So,
[3:39:09] just want to have a conversation
[3:39:09] [clears throat] about it.
[3:39:11] >> Okay. Is that enough direction? Okay.
[3:39:13] >> Uh,
[3:39:14] and other than that, uh, it's late.
[3:39:16] Thanks everybody for your input.
[3:39:18] >> Councilman K.
[3:39:20] Um,
[3:39:21] had something that I'm just going to
[3:39:22] hold off on cuz it's gotten so late.
[3:39:24] Chief, thank you very much for putting
[3:39:25] it all together for us and fielding all
[3:39:28] of these questions and all of this
[3:39:29] discussion. Seems like you you got more
[3:39:31] of the focus tonight than than you
[3:39:33] usually do and I appreciate the
[3:39:35] your ability to have those questions
[3:39:37] bounced off of you and and you come back
[3:39:39] with with perfect answers every single
[3:39:41] time. You do a great job and I really
[3:39:43] appreciate you. Justin, thanks for not
[3:39:44] falling asleep over there. On that note,
[3:39:47] >> Thank you guys for sticking it out with
[3:39:48] us.
[3:39:49] >> [laughter]
[3:39:50] >> Uh, have a great night.
[3:39:51] >> Okay.
[3:39:51] >> Pro tem.
[3:39:52] >> Just a couple comments on this evening.
[3:39:55] Great conversations today. I just want
[3:39:58] to thank Chief for all the all the
[3:40:00] questions we've thrown at him today and
[3:40:02] just state that I have all the faith in
[3:40:05] the world in our human police force. You
[3:40:07] guys have done a great job since I've
[3:40:09] been here in Echelon. You continue to do
[3:40:11] a great job
[3:40:12] connecting with the community. So,
[3:40:14] appreciate you guys.
[3:40:16] Um,
[3:40:17] and we need to make sure that humans
[3:40:18] remain the collective, right? So, as
[3:40:21] we're going into this age of machines
[3:40:25] and cameras and robots and automation,
[3:40:27] the humans must win. Like, the humans
[3:40:29] must be the collective of things and
[3:40:32] people that run things. And so, when we
[3:40:34] are deciding to vote on things, to
[3:40:36] automate things, and that kind of stuff,
[3:40:38] we should make sure that we
[3:40:43] uh you know, in my opinion, we need to
[3:40:44] make sure that we keep staff, that we
[3:40:47] hold on to staff, that we're not
[3:40:48] automating things to
[3:40:51] let staff and humans go and have this
[3:40:54] just come in and be empty, just you type
[3:40:58] things in like at the kiosk at
[3:41:00] McDonald's, and then you get an answer
[3:41:02] from a screen. So, um that's my concern
[3:41:05] when I'm uh digitalization and the
[3:41:08] automation, that we stay as long we stay
[3:41:11] the hometown feel, we stay where we
[3:41:13] connect with people, and we're doing
[3:41:15] business with people, and we're making
[3:41:18] um we're making uh com uh relationships
[3:41:22] with our staff and our people, with our
[3:41:25] community. So, that's my commentary on
[3:41:29] this evening, and it's yeah, been a
[3:41:32] great night. That's it.
[3:41:34] >> I'll keep it short and sweet as well. Um
[3:41:37] Chief, I do appreciate your
[3:41:38] professionalism on this. I
[3:41:40] >> [clears throat]
[3:41:40] >> no intent I wasn't trying to throw
[3:41:42] arrows at you. I just want to make sure
[3:41:44] that we have a very well-thought-out
[3:41:46] approach uh
[3:41:48] to where [clears throat] you guys are
[3:41:50] able to use it where you need to, but
[3:41:52] we're not putting, you know,
[3:41:54] um
[3:41:56] putting it in play where it could be
[3:41:58] over the top abusive.
[3:41:59] Um
[3:42:00] so, I do appreciate that. Um other than
[3:42:03] that, I don't have anything else. Um you
[3:42:04] guys have a good night, and Congressman,
[3:42:07] thank you for coming, cuz I know you're
[3:42:09] going to win. So,
[3:42:10] appreciate [laughter] it.
[3:42:13] >> [clears throat]
[3:42:13] >> Thank you.
[3:42:15] >> Um I've actually been uh thinking about
[3:42:18] doing it for a while.
[3:42:21] My dad did it for me.
[3:42:22] >> I got my bag.