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Good evening. I would like to call the regular meeting of July 28, 20262 order. If you are able and so choose, please rise for the pledge of allegiance.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

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I would now like to invite the Parks and Recreation Department to come down for the Proclamation

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acknowledging July as Parks and Recreation Month.

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Bras.

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The City of Fairfax Parks and Recreation Department is dedicated to developing and maintaining

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beautiful, safe and environmentally friendly open spaces for the public to use an enjoy.

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Creating a affordable, comprehensive and amazing experiences, a sense of community that enriches

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people's lives contributing to the well-being of the individual, family, and visitors to our city.

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And whereas a strategic master plan for Parks and Recreation was passed unanimously by

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the Fairfax City Council in 2014, committing city resources to ongoing investment in our

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25 public parks, walking trails, open space, recreational programming, cultural arts, and

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events. And whereas programming is offered to serve children through camps, older adults,

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through the senior center at Green Acres, and classes for all ages held year-round at

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locations across the city, offering opportunities for educational enrichment, skill building,

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and recreation. And whereas Fairfax City events drop people from all over the region,

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for our chocolate lovers festival, our independence day parade, most years, fall festival,

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and other celebrations, including Rock the Block, from May to October, all made possible by parks and recreation staff and their collaborative partnerships with other Fairfax City departments.

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And whereas cultural arts events such as the Spotlight on the Arts, City of Fairfax Band performances and other theater and dance performances held venues throughout Fairfax City are facilitated and supported by the work of our parks and recreation staff.

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And whereas environmental sustainability and stewardship is central to our parks, trails and open spaces,

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prioritizing a healthy tree canopy and working to implement best practices regarding the planting and care of the city's green spaces.

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And whereas a vibrant community with events and parks is central to sustaining and growing our economic development,

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drawing visitors to our city and attracting new residents who choose to make their home here.

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And whereas playgrounds, ball fields, practice fields, and pavilions within our city provide

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children and their families a safe, accessible, and well-located area in which to enjoy

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outdoor play, sports, and celebrations.

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And whereas the U.S. House of Representatives has designated July as parks and recreation

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month, now therefore I, Catherine S. Reed, mayor of the City of Fairfax on behalf of all

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residents of the city of Fairfax, declare the month of July with celebrations extending through

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August as parks and recreation month in the city of Fairfax, and I encourage residents

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and visitors to enjoy all that our city has to offer through our investments made in parks,

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trails, programs, cultural arts, and special events. Let's give it up for parks and recreation.

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Thank you. We just want to thank Mayor and Council for acknowledging us through this

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And we are also lucky to work in a community that is so supportive of parks and recreation and our parks facilities trails and programs are so amazing because we have an incredible team.

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So thank you.

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And now a photograph.

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All right.

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All right, sir.

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Everybody's swam.

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Not you, Katie McCamon.

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I need you back here.

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Who's taking this?

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So, Catherine McCamman also known affectionately throughout the city as Katie Mack. We have something special for you.

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And let me just start by saying for people who do not know Katie Mack. She has been with us for almost 15 years. She started out here 14 years ago, for sure, as a camp counselor, was hired as an intern, was hired in cultural arts and events management,

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have worked your way all the way up to recreation manager, and in that time, she has committed

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herself to so many things in this city that are not even part of her job description, which

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is why, today, we are going to honor Katie for this right here. The beautiful design

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you saw all over this city for the 250th Anniversary celebration was designed by Katie Mac because

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She is talented because she is talented and she is generous and she does things for the city because after almost 15 years everything she does reflects how much she cares about all of us.

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So in light and I'm going to show you that right here because it has the look on it.

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Katie McCamman, for your exceptional talent,

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creativity, and dedication in designing the official logo of the City of Fairfax

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commemorating the 250th anniversary of the United States Declaration of Independence.

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Your contribution will serve as a source of community pride and a meaningful

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emblem of this historic milestone, helping to unite residents in the celebration of

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250 years of history, achievement, and progress.

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Thank you, Katie, for all you do for us every single day.

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But particularly for your gift and your talent,

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that really set us apart in this national celebration.

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Would you like to say a few words?

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Thank you.

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I guess I don't know if this was happening, so.

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I appreciate it, and I'm love working here, so thank you all for everything

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needed to support our department, and it's a lot of us to make all these things happen.

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Okay, now picture. And a picture.

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Yes,

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hang on to it for those of you who got a yard sign.

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And for those of you who have t-shirts, you know, the emblems on the t-shirts,

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hang on to those things. Really, we have the best looking logo in the entire nation.

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I feel firmly confident about that.

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We will now move on to the agenda adoption.

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Is there a motion to approve the agenda?

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I moved to adopt the agenda as presented.

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second. Okay, a motion has been made in seconded a roll call vote.

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Council member Amos. Council member Hall. Council member Hardy Chandler.

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Council member Peterson. Council member Bates. Council member McCullan.

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I motion passed unanimously. We will go on to initial general public comment.

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I had three people signed up by five o'clock p.m. today and I'm going to call the first speaker up which is Stacey Lankton.

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In the fall of 2020, this city council, apparently, went along with the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors to remove so-called offensive monuments in landmarks.

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They voted on September 15 of that year to remove to U.S. Navy Civil War era, howitzer cannons, which stood on the lawn of the historic Fairfax County Courthouse here in Fairfax City,

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along with a large stone monument that marked this place as one of the locations of the first battles of the Civil War

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and it marked the death of John Quincy Mar on June 1st of 1861, the very first Confederate soldier to die at the hands of a Union Soldier in the Civil War.

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That summer 2020 was the summer of Woke when political correctness ran a muck nationwide along with all of the looters and

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In protestors of antifa and other leftist groups, who burned the downtown areas of several cities across

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our land.

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The idea of political correctness is a distinctly communist phenomenon.

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It was created by the Bolsheviks in 1918 when they murdered bizarre and the royal family

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in Russia and took over the government.

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Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin emphasized that strong adherence to the ideology of their new regime

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was an essential requirement of citizens.

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If you deviated from their political correctness, you would be severely punished.

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You would lose the ability to buy or sell and you might even lose your life.

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The Bolsheviks' promulgation of Karl Marx's Communist manifesto destroyed their society

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for the next 70 years and starved 60 million people to death.

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Now here we are, 100 years later, an hour country, the one that was founded upon the ideals

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and the bedrock of personal freedom and liberty, is doing exactly what the communist did.

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Lenin had an agenda he called the plan for monumental propaganda, his monuments policy called for the removal of all monuments and statues dedicated to the Zars, as they were of no historic or artistic interest, sound familiar.

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I believe that was the exact excuse given in 2020 to remove the cannons.

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Here's a photo of them being taken out under the cover of darkness in the middle of the night.

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President Trump's March 27, 2025, executive order, restoration of truth in American history,

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executive order number 14253 states.

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We must take action to reinstate pre-existing monuments, memorials, statues, or markers

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that have been removed to perpetuate a false reconstruction of American history.

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I submit to you the general public is now sick of wokeness in society.

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It is communist in origin and it is fundamentally unamerican and it is time to put the cannons and the monument back.

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Thank you.

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Our next speaker is Melody Bentley.

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Good evening.

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I am President of the Ulf, excuse me, Ulf Axe Muse, homeowner's association.

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And I would like to address the combined properties proposal for the redevelopment of courthouse plaza.

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Our community of 74 town homes is situated diagonally across university

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derived from courthouse plaza. Everyone who lives there appreciates the proximity of

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this plaza which provides us walkable access to retail, especially the

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desirable convenience of a nearby grocery store. We have a keen interest in

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any changes to this plaza. We appreciate several things about this new

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proposal that combined properties has submitted. There will be additional retail. The mixed

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use will provide much needed housing in our area and a park is included in the plan. However,

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we have the same concerns now as with the first proposal that combined properties submitted

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and which was detailed in a petition we sent to City Council last September. The building

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proposal is still six stories. It is two stories taller than the small area

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plan allows. It will dwarf an overshadow the rest of old town. A further

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reason to respect the four story limitation concerns traffic. University

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drive will soon be reduced to one lane in each direction in the vicinity of the

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plaza to accommodate bike paths. It will be quite enough to ask this road to

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stories of apartment dwellers and retail, five stories of apartment dwellers will introduce

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too much traffic congestion to this neighborhood. Finally, there is the proposed architecture

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which has barely changed from the first proposal. It is modern, busy, stark, and depressing

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with its large swans of black facing. It is a jarring contrast to old town and can hardly

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consider transitional architecture. I think combined properties is missing a huge opportunity.

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Their site with its proximity to Old Town, if designed well, could become a locus of downtown

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activity. Imagine, for example, a public square surrounded on three sides with a retail below

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and apartments above, with restaurants and outdoor seating, a public square, which community

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gatherings and events could happen.

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Then courthouse plaza could really live up to its name.

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Thank you so much for your attention.

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I appreciate it.

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Our last speaker on our design is Katie Johnson.

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Katie Johnson and the clerk has my address. This is a quote from Mr. Cunningham from one of the previous planning commissions. This is from a perspective of zero residential units.

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We are now essentially at 2,000 bedrooms in this space with a possibility of adding more.

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Smart growth is just a use of feminism for density and I'm saying please, please, please when you are discussing this afternoon or the later this evening, the major density projects.

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I ask that your decisions be made to put everything on hold until the city-wide level of service study comes back.

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It's not pertinent to commitments, to things that we don't know how much they cost.

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We shouldn't be committing our city without fully understanding the true cost and the impacts of them.

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So, also, a month's subscription to Capitol Bike Share and a prepaid metro card is not

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adequate traffic mitigation. So, of those two thousand, if just 15% of those two thousand

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That would add $7,159,200 per year to our budget, and that's only going to go up.

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So please do not sacrifice our little city's cherished community character for the sake of densities.

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Thank you.

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We can move to the consent agenda.

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Are there any questions on any of the items on the consent agenda?

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Are there any items Council would like pulled from the consent agenda?

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Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda?

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I move to approve the consent agenda item six A through C as presented July 28, 2026,

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accompanying motions in the staff reports, and the accompanying motions in the staff

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reports.

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Second.

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Emotions that may by Councilmember Hardy Chandler is seconded by Councilmember Petersen

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or roll call vote.

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Councilmember McQuillin?

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Aye.

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Councilmember Bates?

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Aye.

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Council Member Peterson.

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Council Member Hardy Chandler.

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Council Member Hall.

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Council Member Amis.

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Motion passed unanimously.

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We will go on to consideration of appointments to Board's Commissions and Advisory Committees.

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Is there a motion to approve the Appointments to Board's Commissions and Advisory Committees?

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I move to a point of the following applicants.

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Board of Architecture Review.

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Re-appoint Sucha.

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Camp Suwon as the architect and business representative for three-year term extending through June 13th,

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2029. Commission for Women, reappoint a mini-bonani for a three-year term extending through July 1st,

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2029, reappoint Brenda Coleman for three-year term extending through June 30th, 2029. Commission on the Arts,

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A point, Kirk Null, for a remainder of a three-year term extending through December 11th,

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2026, with an extension of a three-year term extending through July 2028, July 28, 29.

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Fairfax Commission on Aging, Reapoint, Manisha, Mass K.

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For a two-year term extending through July 9th, 2028, Fairfax County Public Library Board of Trustees,

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re-appoint Suzanne Levy for a four-year term extending through June 10, 20, 30.

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The motion has been made and seconded a roll call though.

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Councilmember Amis.

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Councilmember Hall.

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Councilmember Hardy Chandler.

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Councilmember Peterson.

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Councilmember Bates.

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I.

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Motion passed unanimously.

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We'll go on to public hearings.

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The only public hearing tonight is a public hearing and council action on proposed amendments to the code of the city of Fairfax.

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Chapter 1, 10, and print zoning to men, portions of the articles and sections contained

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therein, including introductory provisions, zoning districts, and regulations, and definitions.

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Relating to detach accessory dwelling units, I'm going to recognize Eric Foreman, our city planner

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for the staff presentation.

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Well, thank you very much.

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Good evening.

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Now, this agenda item is a public hearing, it's for a series of zoning text amendments

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that would permit detached accessory dwelling units or ADUs in Fairfax City.

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If you recall City Council held a work session in May to discuss this topic and at that

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work session, Council requested that a public hearing be scheduled to consider these amendments

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and Council also asked for analysis of certain data requests.

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So tonight's presentation is really in two parts, you know, the first part.

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Part is an overview of the amendment itself, and this is largely similar to what we had reviewed at the May work session.

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The second part looks at the specific data requests that council had asked for in May.

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We've held quite a few meetings on the topic of ADUs, with various amounts of detail. We held some high-level work sessions and a community meeting in 2024.

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Last year we held work sessions with Planning Commission and with City Council where we reviewed options to potentially accommodate detached accessory dwelling units.

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In the fall council asks staff to draft potential amendments to modify our existing ADU standards in order to permit detached units.

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And that's what we discussed back in May focusing on potential amendment details for detached

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accessory dwelling units.

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I should mention, as well, that the Planning Commission held a public hearing on these amendments

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last month, the Commission recommended approval, and I'll discuss the Planning Commission meeting

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a bit more in a few slides from now.

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As you likely know, accessory dwelling units are currently allowed in the city under certain conditions.

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Specifically, ADUs currently need to be within the home itself or attached rather than detached.

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ADUs were first permitted in 2003 in Fairfax City.

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They were at that time considered a special use, meaning that homeowners needed to come to city council and ask

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For approval, that lasted until 2016 when ADUs became a permitted use meaning that they are permitted with subject to conditions.

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There also used to be an occupancy limitation limiting ADU residents to seniors or to disabled people,

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City Council removed that provision last year.

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Now, detached, accessory dwelling units didn't just pop up out of last year's work sessions,

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the comprehensive plan recommends this recommends to look at expanding ADUs, and this

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is important, while ensuring that they do not negatively impact surrounding neighborhoods.

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And like we talked about at our work sessions, this is really the critical element when it

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comes to creating standards for ADUs.

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Now the main characteristics of any amendment to allow detached ADUs would really be physical

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standards for the structures themselves, and there are other elements as well that these physical

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standards have these are really key to making this work, and reducing any kinds of negative

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externalities that the comprehensive plan mentions.

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Mike, we had talked about in May, the subtlety from a policy perspective is that this is a balancing act.

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So trying to juggle that flexibility, flexibility for property owners, juggling that with the neighborhood impact that that flexibility might bring.

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So most of the standards that you see here today are similar to those that we discussed in May, and I'll point out where they differ.

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The first of these that we'll talk about is setbacks, and in our single family zoning districts,

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the required rear yard setback for most houses is 25 feet.

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The required side yard varies by zoning districts, 10, 12, 15 feet depending on where it is.

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Now we had mentioned in our last work session that there are provisions in our zoning

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ordinance for affordable dwelling units. This was added as part of the affordable dwelling unit

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ordinance back in 2020. And those affordable dwelling provisions includes slightly reduced

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setbacks from what we call the general or standard setbacks. And the rationale is to provide

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some extra flexibility but provide that flexibility without overly impacting the surrounding

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neighborhood. And as we talked about in May, these accessory dwelling unit amendments recommend

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setbacks, really that correspond to those affordable dwelling provisions. And for the

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same reason, this is way to balance that flexibility to give some preference to accessory dwelling

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units, but at the same time keeping the guardrails in place to reduce those negative effects

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on neighbors' properties.

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So, like it shows here,

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those recommended setbacks,

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and this is what's in the amendment before you.

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The recommended setbacks are 20 feet in the rear, so that's-

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As opposed to 25 feet. And about a 20% reduction or about a two to three foot reduction on the side lock line. So eight feet in most zoning districts, 12 feet in the RL district.

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And as we could see on the screen, you could see what it means to aid to you placements in this kind of hypothetical scenario. And aid to you could go anywhere in the unshaded area. So it can go here or here or here and so on.

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So like it says here, this looks to balance again that property owner flexibility, balance it with potential neighborhood impact.

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Now, planning commission did have a recommendation at one of their work sessions that's been incorporated into this proposed amendment.

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That involves ADUs that might be located on the side of houses where there's enough space to do that.

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The commission was concerned about the aesthetic effects of having a detached accessory dwelling unit in the side yard and recommended standards to ensure that any side yard ADUs would be located near the rear of the house, and that, again, has been incorporated into these recommended amendments.

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Now, for setbacks, in general, I think it helps to show how the proposed ADU setbacks compare

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with setbacks for other structures.

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So this shows a sample.

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A lot, this is in the RH district, shows three examples of behind the house setbacks.

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On the left here, this is the setback for main dwellings themselves.

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So if this house is owners were to build an addition, or if the house itself were to

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end down and replace, the house could not extend into that green shaded areas.

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So that's the setback, that's the required yard, again, forward dwellings for houses.

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In the middle here, these are the side and rear setbacks for accessory structures,

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so things like grudges, and like it says at the bottom here, these are less intense uses

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than a dwelling than a house, and the reason is because no one lives in a garage, no one lives

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in a gazebo, and so on. So these are permitted to be closer to the lotlines than the dwellings

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themselves, and in this case a minimum of five feet from the rear lotline or the side lotline.

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Now on the right here, this is what's in the proposed amendment for detached accessory dwelling units.

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And again, this mirrors the ordinance is existing standards for affordable dwelling

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setbacks.

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And this recognizes that accessory dwelling units have similar levels of intensity as

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other dwellings, but it provides more flexibility.

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It provides flexibility by permitting these structures to be a little closer to the

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outline than the main house can be.

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Just one more slide on setbacks here at our fall work session, City Council mentioned that

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detached ADUs can be thought of as an alternative to building a very large houses.

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And that that alternative might be able to fit more appropriately into our neighborhoods.

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And that's a significant guiding principle because these standards view ADUs as that kind

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alternative. And importantly, the setback standard that's in these amendments would avoid cases

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of property owners maximizing both house size and having an ADU on having a detached ADU on the

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same lot. Again, part of that balancing act, this slide shows an example of that. These are

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two houses side by side on identically sized lots. The house on the left is a newer house.

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It doesn't completely maximize the buildable area, but you can see it comes somewhat close.

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The house on the right has a smaller overall footprint for the house itself.

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It has a more open lot.

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These amendment standards would enable that house on the right to build an ADU.

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Now, that house on the right could also build an addition.

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It could be replaced by another house and so on.

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But as it is now, that house could build an ADU in the yard.

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for the house on the left, these standards basically say that the square footage that could

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have been used for an ADU has already been used for the house itself.

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So again, avoids the instance of having a maximum size house with a detached ADU on the

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same body.

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Now the other significant physical standard is height.

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There is a good amount of discussion on height standards at the work sessions.

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the main issue being implications for neighboring properties.

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These amendments stand.

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Under its set a limit of 20 feet, or the measured height of the main house, and whichever is less.

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Now, 20 feet, this is roughly one and a half stories. The intent here is to ensure the detached

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ADUs don't overwhelm the lots that they're on, don't overwhelm the main house or neighboring properties.

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One and a half stories would still provide for design flexibility, provides for the structure's placement on the latin layout and so on.

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This gives kind of a quick, visual representation of what we're talking about, so for a multi-story house, like the one on the left, a detached ADU would have a maximum height of 20 feet, so again, that's about one and a half stories.

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For houses like the house on the right here, houses that are themselves less than 20 feet,

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the maximum ADU height would be equivalent to the houses.

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So again, the recommendation in these amendments is that ADU height may not exceed 20 feet,

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or the height of the house, and again, whichever is less.

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There are some other physical standards that are currently in place.

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These amendments recommend keeping those standards.

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I won't spend too much time on these right now, since we talked about these standards at previous meetings,

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but these standards are all proposed to remain the same as they are now.

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You can see here there are standards for accessory structure or footprint,

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also standards for ADU, square footage, and again, these are recommended to be kept.

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Like it says, at the bottom here, these standards really can work together to account for different sized lots, different house sizes, multiple stories, and so on.

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The zoning ordinance also has standards on lot and building coverage, so both for lots in general and also for lots with accessory structures.

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So these likewise are proposed to remain the same and you can tell these are all interrelated

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and again, each of these addresses a specific issue, the amendments again propose keeping

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these standards intact.

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Moving on to parking, as you may recall, our zoning ordinance right now does have a standard

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for ADU parking, but that standard is based on vehicles that are used by ADU residents.

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it's just not effective, it's not enforceable. In our work sessions, both planning commission

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and city council were interested in exploring a different approach to ADU parking. So the

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standard proposed here takes a different approach, so like it says here, it says that a lot,

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a property with an ADU must provide no less than the minimum number of parking spaces that are specified

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in the off-street parking section of the ordinance, which is section 4.2.

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So that standard for detached houses and for duplex houses, that standard, like it says at the bottom,

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here is a minimum of two off-street parking spaces for a house, and that means two drive-ways

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spaces effectively. So what that means is that if a house already has at least two drive-ways

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than that house would comply with this standard.

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Now, some houses don't have a driveway,

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or like at the house that's shown here,

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have just a small driveway that just fits one car.

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So, in those cases, the house would need to be brought up to

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the city's regular parking standards in order to have an ADU.

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So, this house that's shown here,

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If the owners were to add an ADU, they would need to enlarge the driveway so that it could fit another vehicle before getting before the city would issue an ADU permit.

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The reason for this standard is to not automatically trigger a parking shortage with the addition of an accessory dwelling unit, but still to guard against parking shortfalls where they might be more particularly problematic.

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Now, planning commission did express some concern about parking at their public hearing.

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The concern was that this standard may not go far enough.

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Planning commissions has a datation seemed to be that some neighborhoods already have

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not enough parking and that adding the possibility of more ADUs might make that kind of situation

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worse.

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Now, the flip side, and this was discussed at the planning commission meeting, as well, is that

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It's tough to make the case that an AGU would generate more parking.

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And then an addition to a house. So for example, right down the road from City Hall, we have a house that has ten bedrooms, for instance.

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That kind of addition can be built without having any parking requirement. So it's a difficult leap to make to say that that kind of thing can be built without a parking requirement, but adding a 500 square foot cottage in the backyard, triggers parking requirement.

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So there's a lot going on with the parking, discussion, a few planning commissioners felt uneasy about this now not enough to suggest changes to the amendments, but just to feeling that there's an existing problem that might be made more problematic by allowing detached accessory dwelling units.

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Now, one more topic here, and then we'll move on to some of the analysis that City Council

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had asked for, we had talked before about how to best deal with the potential conversion

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of existing structures to ADUs, and specifically existing structures that do not meet whatever

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standards are in place for ADUs themselves, meaning that they would be considered non-conforming.

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So, under these proposed amendments, if a property owner would wish to convert an existing non-conforming

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structure to an accessory dwelling unit, that property owner would go through the board

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of zoning appeals.

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And this is the same as we had discussed in May, I bring it up because one of City Council's

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requests has to do with accessory structures.

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BZA is set up really to handle exactly this kind of situation, special exceptions that can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, and this is really the default set up with our zoning ordinance, and there are just so many potential variations on conformities like this, that it's a issue that's best addressed outside of rigid type of standards.

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So, those are the main standards for what's proposed here in the detached ADU amendment that

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you have before you, the full amendment text is in your packets.

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Like I said, I went through kind of quickly, I can always go back and explain some more

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of this.

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But, as I had mentioned, Council requested additional analysis on certain topics and staff has

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done that analysis and the next few slides will summarize the results.

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City Council, then, again, this is back in May, had asked a few questions regarding potential

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impacts that detached ADUs may have on real estate assessments, so both on the ADUs property

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itself and also in general, or citywide.

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Like it says, up here, under direct impacts, when a detached ADU is built, that ADU would

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assessed similar to other structures or similar to other additions.

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And what that means is on a per-square-foot basis.

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So there's no set amount for valuation.

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It would vary, like it says, here would vary

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based on the details of the ADU itself.

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Now, Council also asked if a jurisdiction

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allows detached ADUs with that permissiveness

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result in increased property values, city-wide.

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not just for the properties that have ADUs, but a general increase in property values.

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The concern here was whether that by enabling property owners to build these kind of structures

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would property values increase in general, and really since there would be a new option

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for essentially monetizing properties to a greater extent with that raised property values,

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raised property taxes, and harm affordability.

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Our real estate staff examined this question, determined that across the board property value

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impacts due to a detached ADU ordinance is not something that we would expect.

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Now, to reach that determination, our assessor's office reviewed existing studies on ADUs

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did not find evidence of this kind of effect.

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They also conducted their own local analysis, so based on Arlington County, Arlington is the jurisdiction around here that's had detached ADUs for the longest.

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Like it says here, our staff again, the real estate staff analyzed neighborhoods in Arlington that have had detached ADUs property sales.

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properties that have detached A to use and have sold, analyze these neighborhoods over

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a five-year period, and the finding was that the general property appreciation in those

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neighborhoods tracked extremely close to the county.

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Average for appreciation, and countywide is Arlington County, because that's what it's looking at. So by extremely close, I mean, within one tenth of one percent of the countywide average. So these neighborhoods actually went down by one tenth of one percent, but really that's so close to the baseline that we would consider it, like it says down here, just not indicative of ADU influence.

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Just to put it in a dollar amount, that one tenth of one percent, which we would consider

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really a plus or minus is about ten dollars in property tax payments.

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Another request from City Council was to see for other Northern Virginia jurisdictions,

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the jurisdictions that have already approved detached ADU ordinances, how many of these units

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have actually been approved within those jurisdictions.

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The most instructive localities around here are Arlington and Alexandria.

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Both of those have had permitted detached aid to use now for five or seven years.

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You see the numbers up here.

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This is the number of permits issued.

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What's perhaps most instructive here is the average annual number of permits issued.

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And you see that here, it's 11 in Arlington County and this goes back five year period of

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2021 to 25, 14 annual average in Alexandria.

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And you see that the bottom, how that translates into annual permits per 1,000 homes.

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So that's helpful because it accounts for the difference in size between the jurisdictions.

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Council, also asked for information on Falls, Church and Fairfax County, Fairfax County allows

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detached ADUs right now on properties that are larger than two acres.

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The county has issued 10 permits for these types of ADUs since 2021.

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Falls Church is the most recent jurisdiction locally to allow detached ADUs.

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they issued one permit so far, now that number per 1,000 houses, if you take these two numbers

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that are on the screen for Arlington and Alexandria, if you combine those two with Fairfax

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County, so again two plus acres, but Fairfax County has 7,000 homes over two plus acres,

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And that's a pretty big data set.

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If you take the ADUs per 1000 houses, apply that to the city of Fairfax, I hate to make direct

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comparisons because each jurisdiction is different.

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But that would get us in the area of about 50 detached ADUs over a decade.

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Now, I said I'm a little bit uncomfortable saying that, but of course, I just said it.

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I give it a bigger window, I'd say a few dozen over a decade, make that a pretty big plus or minus.

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But hopefully that gives some kind of indication of the prevalence of detached aid used locally in northern Virginia in places where they're allowed.

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Another question I'd like to mention before involved existing structures.

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Council wanted to know just as a frame of reference how many of these kinds of structures

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are in the city right now. So for this we looked at property records, we looked at all

421
00:43:40,910 --> 00:43:47,070
existing residential structures, so of all types, not just garages, but any structure

422
00:43:47,070 --> 00:43:54,490
of that. But with a minimum of 350 square feet in size, which are more likely to be converted

423
00:43:54,490 --> 00:44:02,670
to ADUs. In total, there's slightly under 400 such structures in the city right now on residential

424
00:44:02,670 --> 00:44:10,710
lots. About a quarter of those, like it says up here 104, are within what we would call the

425
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:16,950
buildable setback area for detached ADUs. So if you think back to the previous slide with the green

426
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:24,470
area, that would be outside of the green area. So 104, are within that buildable setback area,

427
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:31,730
the remainder are like it says here outside of that buildable area. So that gives some kind of an

428
00:44:31,730 --> 00:44:37,430
idea of the number of these structures in the city. It is very important, though, the point that

429
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:42,250
says at the bottom we can examine the number, we can examine the size and the placement of these structures.

430
00:44:43,130 --> 00:44:49,130
But like it says at the bottom here, not all of these are really convertible to some place where people

431
00:44:49,130 --> 00:44:50,770
would want to live.

432
00:44:51,050 --> 00:44:54,730
So either from the standpoint of the type of construction,

433
00:44:54,930 --> 00:44:57,830
the foundation, the cost of modifying the structure

434
00:44:57,830 --> 00:44:59,970
and so on, so just...

435
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:08,980
It's an important thing to keep in mind that something that's non-quantifiable, but we gave you here the information that can be quantified on the number of existing structures.

436
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:30,240
And now, finally, there were some questions about the permitting process, and specifically whether the city, the main question that came up in May's meeting was whether the city would verify that properties containing detached ADUs are, in fact, owner occupied.

437
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:36,560
It is required. It's required in the zoning standards. It's current requirement that we're recommending to keep in place

438
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:43,440
that the property owner live in either the main house or the accessory growing unit.

439
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:53,820
Now, first of all, city staff will update the permit procedures if detached AD, ADUs are allowed by city councils, so this will be updated.

440
00:45:53,820 --> 00:46:03,000
And one area where detached ADUs would differ from attached ADUs is that they would be subject

441
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,180
to the city's rental occupancy permit program.

442
00:46:06,340 --> 00:46:11,620
So this is program, it's an existing program in the city where rental houses are registered

443
00:46:11,620 --> 00:46:20,520
and are periodically inspected because detached ADUs are separate structures, they would

444
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:26,720
we made part of this program, and those periodic inspections would include a verification

445
00:46:27,310 --> 00:46:34,360
that the property is owner occupied. So this is not a verification that would happen

446
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:40,580
on a annual basis, it's a verification that would happen when the property is inspected,

447
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:48,960
but that is one additional level of check that would not ordinarily be there.

448
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:55,040
And aside from that, city staff would still be able to respond to complaints about potential

449
00:46:55,040 --> 00:47:01,720
zoning violations and that includes occupancy, potential occupancy violations as well as

450
00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:02,900
is currently the case.

451
00:47:05,970 --> 00:47:08,990
So that concludes staff's presentation for tonight.

452
00:47:09,210 --> 00:47:14,330
I had mentioned that the Planning Commission held a public hearing on these amendments in

453
00:47:14,330 --> 00:47:14,670
June.

454
00:47:14,990 --> 00:47:16,570
The Commission recommended approval.

455
00:47:16,570 --> 00:47:18,450
It was a unanimous recommendation.

456
00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:23,090
The planning commission did express some concerns about parking, like I had mentioned.

457
00:47:23,690 --> 00:47:28,970
Planning commission also expressed some concerns about overcrowding and occupancy enforcement.

458
00:47:30,790 --> 00:47:38,050
So regarding overcrowding and occupancy, some of that discussion pertain to whether, you know,

459
00:47:38,070 --> 00:47:44,730
really similar to the parking issue, whether the option of having detached accessory dwelling units

460
00:47:44,730 --> 00:47:48,510
would make existing overcrowding issues worse.

461
00:47:49,470 --> 00:47:55,290
And whether the city's enforcement mechanisms for all rentals were sufficient to be on

462
00:47:55,290 --> 00:48:01,550
guard for overcrowding types of situations, some of the discussion really drifted into

463
00:48:01,550 --> 00:48:05,670
a more general overcrowding and inspection type of discussion.

464
00:48:06,670 --> 00:48:11,290
Planning commissioners did realize that that's somewhat outside of the boundary of what's

465
00:48:11,290 --> 00:48:20,010
discussed here, you know, with a specific focus on detached ADUs, so outside of the boundary

466
00:48:20,010 --> 00:48:23,790
of these amendments, but it was identified as a concern by several planning commissioners

467
00:48:23,790 --> 00:48:27,950
and there was a bit of a discussion on this topic at the public hearing.

468
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:33,690
So with that, we would be glad to answer any questions that you all may have.

469
00:48:34,750 --> 00:48:37,790
Thank you so much for the presentation, Council Member McWillon.

470
00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:40,050
Thank you.

471
00:48:40,090 --> 00:48:40,830
Thank you so much.

472
00:48:41,010 --> 00:48:42,330
That presentation was fantastic.

473
00:48:43,690 --> 00:48:48,130
I am looking at slide five about the setbacks.

474
00:48:48,790 --> 00:48:52,630
Can you explain why eight feet versus ten feet was chosen for the eight

475
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:53,130
use?

476
00:48:54,470 --> 00:49:02,890
So we did want to align it with the existing affordable dwelling unit setbacks.

477
00:49:03,150 --> 00:49:06,970
You know, the affordable dwelling unit setbacks were put in place again

478
00:49:06,970 --> 00:49:11,910
to give a little bit more flexibility to something that was considered desirable, but to still

479
00:49:11,910 --> 00:49:17,970
maintain neighborhood character and maintain a decent amount of separation between one property

480
00:49:17,970 --> 00:49:23,710
and the other eight feet was considered to be appropriate with the affordable dwelling unit

481
00:49:23,710 --> 00:49:29,250
ordinance that achieves the same type of goal that we're looking at with accessory dwelling units.

482
00:49:29,610 --> 00:49:32,410
Okay, so for the flexibility, just the extra flexibility.

483
00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:37,810
additional flexibility while keeping those kind of guardrails, not letting these dwellings and

484
00:49:37,810 --> 00:49:44,050
the dwellings have a higher bit of intensity than other structures, not letting those

485
00:49:44,050 --> 00:49:45,770
dwellings being too close to the property line.

486
00:49:46,270 --> 00:49:50,230
I think he always just curious as to why they didn't choose the ten foot, like they do with

487
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:52,550
the, but it sounds like they need more flexibility.

488
00:49:53,730 --> 00:49:59,410
Is there consideration regarding topography of the...

489
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:12,860
Lot. And we're discussing the height. I'm thinking about the height and how you'd mentioned you didn't want it looking over or looming onto the permanent dwelling that's there already. So was that already taken in?

490
00:50:12,980 --> 00:50:20,920
As far as height, yes. And that's part of the reason why the recommendation was 20 feet was basically one and a half stories.

491
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:26,240
instead of two stories, because if it is built on a hill that wanted to have stories with

492
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:33,300
the locomotive would look bigger than one and a half stories, we didn't want anything too

493
00:50:33,300 --> 00:50:40,080
large, two story accessories dwelling built in that situation on a hill would just be too

494
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:44,220
looming. So one and a half felt that was perfect. Okay, good. So you did consider that a lot.

495
00:50:44,220 --> 00:50:49,060
So as far as that kind of typography, yes, the kind of typography that we just can't consider

496
00:50:49,060 --> 00:50:57,720
is if a certain portion of a yard is sloping to the point where it makes construction difficult

497
00:50:57,720 --> 00:51:03,880
on a map like this, it might seem like there's plenty of room to build an ADU, but there may not be.

498
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:10,200
Same kind of thing with trees in the way in that there are certain types of things that we just can't account for

499
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,880
topography and trees or two of those.

500
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:22,480
Thank you. I just want to make sure that that was considered exactly what you said with, you know, if the lot was increasing in height in the back.

501
00:51:23,180 --> 00:51:30,100
Is there a financial cost for the applicant to convert the existing structure to an ADU conversion?

502
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:35,880
There is a zoning permit cost, which I believe is

503
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:41,900
is $70 or so now that the,

504
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,840
any, depending on what is required,

505
00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:48,160
there would be inspections from code administration

506
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,160
as well, these things would really pale

507
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,860
in comparison to the actual cost of construction

508
00:51:53,860 --> 00:51:56,520
or the cost of providing utilities and whatnot.

509
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,920
There, it is a minimal city cost to some of this,

510
00:52:01,020 --> 00:52:02,840
but it's very small in the overall picture.

511
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:11,980
Okay, good to know. And then of the local cities that you use to make a comparison, which one

512
00:52:11,980 --> 00:52:17,380
most closely aligns with the ordinance that we're currently being presented this evening.

513
00:52:17,500 --> 00:52:21,060
I would say Arlington and Falls Church would most closely align.

514
00:52:22,340 --> 00:52:29,460
Alexandria is much more permissive in terms of setbacks, and I think that has to do with the types of houses and the types of neighborhoods.

515
00:52:29,460 --> 00:52:38,880
they have in Alexandria and a lot of existing structures that were built long, long ago, and are already there, but are

516
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:39,860
early-intinent full-structured.

517
00:52:40,540 --> 00:52:40,820
Excellent.

518
00:52:40,940 --> 00:52:41,300
Thank you.

519
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:42,120
That's all my questions.

520
00:52:42,340 --> 00:52:43,880
I appreciate it.

521
00:52:43,900 --> 00:52:44,860
Councilmember Amos.

522
00:52:45,980 --> 00:52:46,460
Thank you.

523
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:47,560
Excellent presentation.

524
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:50,280
The more comment than question.

525
00:52:50,500 --> 00:52:54,480
The only thing I would flag, I do echo the Planning Commission's concerns of parking.

526
00:52:54,580 --> 00:52:56,780
And I know that came up in our 101s as well.

527
00:52:56,780 --> 00:53:00,440
And I imagine that's a concern that many of us share.

528
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,700
The main thing I would recommend just because it's very,

529
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,940
and I do appreciate the language you added to make it more enforceable.

530
00:53:08,020 --> 00:53:09,200
I think that does a good job.

531
00:53:09,780 --> 00:53:15,040
I would just recommend tracking and code violations over a certain period of time,

532
00:53:15,420 --> 00:53:19,200
and similar to that tracking the number of permits that are applied for and comparing the two.

533
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:25,140
We also don't want it to be a case where we have a certain number of violations,

534
00:53:25,140 --> 00:53:29,100
but they're all attributed to similar properties or one or two outliers.

535
00:53:29,860 --> 00:53:32,640
By code violations, what kind of code violations do you have?

536
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,960
Rather than code violations, just violations, for example,

537
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:39,500
for not providing adequate parking or over parking certain areas.

538
00:53:41,660 --> 00:53:45,460
So, applications that trigger that need for an additional parking space.

539
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:46,160
Okay, yes.

540
00:53:47,740 --> 00:53:48,700
Council Member Hall.

541
00:53:49,580 --> 00:53:50,020
Thank you.

542
00:53:50,140 --> 00:53:52,520
And thank you for the extra time and energy that went into asking,

543
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:57,320
are answering the questions that we put post previously and the other concerns.

544
00:53:58,940 --> 00:54:02,000
So I'll be honest, I thought you were making a mistake when you called them a affordable

545
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:02,780
dwelling units.

546
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,780
But then you made a reference between eight feet and ten feet for affordable dwelling unit

547
00:54:06,780 --> 00:54:09,840
versus accessory, detached accessory dwelling unit.

548
00:54:10,420 --> 00:54:12,620
So I've been over here trying to do some additional research.

549
00:54:12,900 --> 00:54:13,780
But can you...

550
00:54:13,780 --> 00:54:16,580
There is an affordable dwelling unit ordinance.

551
00:54:17,780 --> 00:54:22,060
Folks are in very familiar with it as it pertains to single family houses because we haven't

552
00:54:22,060 --> 00:54:24,840
had anything like that since 2020 when it was approved,

553
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,040
but the affordable dwelling ordinance

554
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,040
that you all are more familiar with,

555
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,820
requiring a certain percentage of six percent

556
00:54:32,820 --> 00:54:34,800
of multi-family residences be affordable.

557
00:54:35,380 --> 00:54:39,960
There is an equivalent for detached homes as well.

558
00:54:40,740 --> 00:54:43,760
And just like the building standards

559
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,880
were relaxed a bit for the affordable dwelling unit,

560
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,220
affordable dwelling units in multi-family,

561
00:54:49,220 --> 00:54:56,500
they were relaxed a little bit for single family as well, and that was increasing the

562
00:54:57,460 --> 00:54:59,720
setbacks. We're decreasing the setbacks.

563
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:08,360
That's where that comes from. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. I feel like we need new acronyms that are not identical.

564
00:55:10,220 --> 00:55:28,060
Excuse me. Page 7 with regard to the parking, I do, I know we like to think that people are going to bike everywhere and walk everywhere and take shuttles, but I really have concerns about the parking, especially in neighborhoods that already have, you know, parking issues.

565
00:55:28,060 --> 00:55:33,120
I don't think it's too much to ask to move this to three spots as opposed to two spots.

566
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:37,280
I think the picture that's on slide 11 is kind of a prime example.

567
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:41,060
As you were saying, you know, there's a requirement to do this for the two required spots.

568
00:55:41,220 --> 00:55:45,880
I was thinking to some of the neighbors that are in this city where they don't have a drive with it all,

569
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,560
or they have a short drive with it just like that.

570
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,960
And I was like, well, those don't, that's not how things are right now.

571
00:55:52,060 --> 00:55:54,820
So I recognize that it would need to be brought up to code in order to do that.

572
00:55:54,820 --> 00:55:59,020
but I don't think it'll hurt in most cases

573
00:55:59,020 --> 00:56:02,840
to add a third spot instead of just two.

574
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:07,880
And then page 11, I was sorry, that was the same thing.

575
00:56:08,140 --> 00:56:09,800
Yeah, bring up to code for two spots.

576
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,040
And I'm, okay, so I'm flipping back

577
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,800
and forth a little bit between the staff report

578
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:18,520
and the presentation.

579
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:20,940
So on page eight of the presentation,

580
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:50,880
It talks about the height of the houses here, so I think, you know, in the city, we have a lot of houses that might not be cookie cutter in some ways, or they might have, like my house specifically, we have, you know, we put in like 16 foot ceilings, which you don't see from the outside, because it looks like the same height, but then in the front, when we did our garage, we did a peak, I guess, whatever, I don't know what it's called, like the one roof goes this way, the other one goes that way.

581
00:56:51,480 --> 00:57:03,880
Yes, thank you. Yes. How how how do those hips get decided like what's the height that you're looking at when you see a tall portion of a house versus the majority of the roof is another height. How does that work?

582
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:13,260
So a hip roof and a regular peak roof are measured the same way that the height is measured halfway between the eve and the peak.

583
00:57:13,260 --> 00:57:21,300
Okay. So in this case 20, so a house can be 35 feet tall, that 35 feet is not measured

584
00:57:21,300 --> 00:57:25,860
to the peak. It's measured to the halfway point between the even the peak. Same thing with the

585
00:57:25,860 --> 00:57:35,080
20 feet here, it's measured halfway between the even the peak and also halfway between the slope

586
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:41,900
of the ground, if the ground slopes. It is a complicated procedure. We don't feel that it's something

587
00:57:41,900 --> 00:57:45,920
that we're dumping on residences much because if you have one of these built, you have an

588
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:51,740
architect who has to take those measurements in all cases, so the same architect can take

589
00:57:51,740 --> 00:57:57,060
measurements of the house as well. It's not a bit of information that property owners

590
00:57:57,060 --> 00:58:01,220
would tend to have at the ready for their own property, but it's something that in the course

591
00:58:01,220 --> 00:58:03,560
of construction is routine.

592
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:10,100
Okay, and so then let's picture that you have a lot where the back is significantly higher

593
00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:15,300
or lower. How does that factor into the roof of that space?

594
00:58:15,860 --> 00:58:24,880
So the measurement is taken. If the ground slopes like this, the measurement is taken from the halfway point of the high point and the low point of the structure.

595
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:28,320
So the halfway point of the ground to the halfway point of the roof.

596
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:29,260
Okay.

597
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,300
So that's your 35 feet or your 20 feet.

598
00:58:31,620 --> 00:58:35,340
Okay. So let's say my house out front is normal when it comes to my neighbors.

599
00:58:35,340 --> 00:58:38,820
But then my yard significantly goes up.

600
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:46,120
Then my going to be able to build a house that is as tall as my house, which means now this house in behind is significantly taller.

601
00:58:46,700 --> 00:58:52,160
Or am I limited to the height even with the additional hill in the back?

602
00:58:52,740 --> 00:59:01,580
So if your house is on a slope and if the measurement for your house comes out that your house is 25 feet tall, for instance.

603
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:09,560
The maximum height of the ADU would be 20 feet, because that's the tallest that it could possibly go.

604
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,260
Okay, so I understand you're explaining the same thing to me multiple times in different ways.

605
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:15,340
I'm still not visually.

606
00:59:15,820 --> 00:59:17,800
The height measurement is not easy to understand.

607
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:18,700
No, it's not.

608
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:23,260
The two structures would be measured independently of each other.

609
00:59:23,260 --> 00:59:33,640
So, if your house is measured at over 20 feet, your ADU could be a maximum of 20 feet,

610
00:59:33,700 --> 00:59:35,840
regardless of what the typography is.

611
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:41,300
Okay, so it is possible that if you have a very large chill in the back, that your secondary

612
00:59:42,980 --> 00:59:46,340
ADU could be significantly taller than your front house.

613
00:59:48,450 --> 00:59:50,310
That would be extremely unlikely.

614
00:59:51,770 --> 00:59:53,650
I don't want to say it can't happen.

615
00:59:53,650 --> 00:59:59,970
Okay, I feel I feel it would be very unlikely it would be

616
01:00:00,660 --> 01:00:10,200
If you had this house on the right, and then you had the properties sloped down a lot in the back, then

617
01:00:11,740 --> 01:00:17,120
you may have a situation where that looks the case, but it would still have to keep to 16 feet.

618
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:27,640
And the reason we have it is that is to build in some additional flexibility, because we

619
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:36,200
In one house, we didn't want a situation where a house where an ADU would have to be an unreasonably small number.

620
01:00:37,660 --> 01:00:43,400
But on the flip side, we also don't know that this house is going to be significantly closer to a side yard.

621
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:43,780
Right.

622
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:49,920
We also don't want it to be towering over where the front house wasn't already just because of a topography thing.

623
01:00:50,460 --> 01:00:52,700
So just trying to understand those nuances.

624
01:00:58,460 --> 01:01:19,480
On in the staff report, I think this is on page 6, item L, it talks about the zoning administrator may inspect the property if there is a complaint registered with the city or if the official has other reason to believe that the owner or occupants are in violation of the accessory dwelling unit approval.

625
01:01:20,420 --> 01:01:28,300
So from what I understand of our enforcement abilities, there's not a lot of teeth to them.

626
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:33,360
And I totally support people's right to do what they want with their own houses, but

627
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,880
I also don't want to see that right and pee upon their neighbors.

628
01:01:37,820 --> 01:01:42,800
And so I know we've had issues in the past where we as a council have been notified that

629
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:47,060
there might be X number of people living in a house, and they're like, no, it's boyfriend's

630
01:01:47,060 --> 01:01:56,240
But they're really there all the time, but they don't qualify as house residents, but there's a parking situation that comes or other things that come with that.

631
01:01:57,060 --> 01:02:07,460
So I would like to see a little bit more enforcement ability, whether or not we have enforcement power or enough staff members to do that.

632
01:02:07,500 --> 01:02:12,120
I think that's likely not going to be something that we need to add in order to manage this.

633
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:14,960
but those are part of my concerns.

634
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:19,280
The next one also goes then to item N as a Nancy,

635
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,700
where it talks about if there's a change,

636
01:02:22,820 --> 01:02:23,640
sorry, they took that out.

637
01:02:23,780 --> 01:02:27,580
If an accessory dwelling unit no longer complies with the conditions,

638
01:02:29,460 --> 01:02:32,480
then the use of the space is a separate dwelling unit

639
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,120
shall cease the physical arrangement of the space

640
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:36,800
that created an independent housekeeping

641
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,240
and it shall be integrated into the primary dwelling unit

642
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:43,400
And the space shall not be independently least as a separate dwelling unit.

643
01:02:44,060 --> 01:02:50,120
Again, I feel like that's something where we tell someone they can't do something because they violated a rule or an ordinance.

644
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:54,780
But again, we don't have a lot of ability to go back and actually follow up on it.

645
01:02:55,260 --> 01:02:58,560
So I just think there needs to be something in there that's a little bit stronger.

646
01:02:59,020 --> 01:03:06,020
Because from what I understand, if we go and we knock on the door and no one answers, well, we might go back another day and no one answers again.

647
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:12,580
legally and we shouldn't have the ability to enter their yard to do things but if they're

648
01:03:12,580 --> 01:03:17,500
not complying with something it seems like there needs to be some other way to have some

649
01:03:17,500 --> 01:03:24,140
additional enforcement. So I'm not suggesting tax levies like there's all these different

650
01:03:24,140 --> 01:03:27,640
things that people can do like they boot your car right like all those things that they do

651
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:31,880
when you don't pay your parking tickets I just think that there needs to be some other conversation

652
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:35,000
and that is in place to be able to move forward with this.

653
01:03:35,740 --> 01:03:40,240
And that's not dissimilar to the conversation that Planning Commission had last month.

654
01:03:40,980 --> 01:03:46,080
It's just, and you know, we've reminded Planning Commission of this as well in occupancy

655
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:51,580
enforcement is awfully tricky from the city's perspective because there's no way to check

656
01:03:51,580 --> 01:03:57,020
on the occupancy of a dwelling without having city staff go into that dwelling and look at

657
01:03:57,020 --> 01:04:01,100
the beds and look at the bedrooms, and that's something obviously that's not taken lightly

658
01:04:01,100 --> 01:04:06,460
by the city, there's just no other way of doing it.

659
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:10,620
So it does kind of wander into another discussion

660
01:04:10,620 --> 01:04:14,440
on occupancy in general, but it's a pertinent discussion.

661
01:04:15,060 --> 01:04:16,960
Yeah, what I know, like with the noise ordinance, right?

662
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:18,920
If you're not getting the response you need,

663
01:04:19,100 --> 01:04:21,200
and the neighbor is still continuing to do things,

664
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:24,080
there's an option now to go to the courthouse

665
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,880
and swear out of warrant and go that legal route.

666
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:30,200
Obviously, a disgruntled neighbor is not going to be able to go

667
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:34,040
square out of war and against their neighbor for not having the right number of people in their

668
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:37,880
house or whatever it is. So I just think some of these things are just a slippery slope and I

669
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:44,860
think the more we can be on top of them and try to have stronger language where needed.

670
01:04:45,820 --> 01:04:50,420
Again, just gives us a little bit more opportunity to have that conversation rather than realizing

671
01:04:50,420 --> 01:04:53,480
it was too soft and then we can't go back and do anything about it.

672
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,980
Also, my other question about that section and it talks about, like, when the...

673
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:27,460
I'm sorry, it's actually okay. Talks about the, they do an initial inspection of the accessory dwelling unit and then in addition to any renewal of the accessory dwelling unit use or transfer of ownership. So, when would a renewal apply or people applying for an ADU for one year, three years, five years or it's for the life of their property in which they live and then it transfers to the new owner?

674
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:31,840
I think the renewal applies to the transfer of ownership.

675
01:05:32,180 --> 01:05:34,700
I'm not sure why it's written as an or situation.

676
01:05:35,980 --> 01:05:44,000
The zoning permit, the applicant signs an affidavit acknowledging that it has to be renewed when the property transfers.

677
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:44,840
Okay.

678
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:55,520
I will say the wording of this made me think, and I guess similar with the planning commission was saying, and I also, you know, I think people are landlords for a very long time and

679
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,960
people don't always check up on the house or make sure that it's being maintained in the way

680
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,620
that it should be especially when you might have college kids renting and there's a lot of

681
01:06:02,620 --> 01:06:07,860
transient things like that but maybe we do as a separate conversation need a little bit more of a

682
01:06:07,860 --> 01:06:14,800
stronger conversation around making sure that when a tenant takes possession of the home that it

683
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:20,640
really is truly in a good safe rentable. Most sectors are working all of that kind of thing.

684
01:06:21,300 --> 01:06:32,520
You know, I know that they pay an annual fee to have a rental unit, but I think we could potentially be doing our renter as a disservice by not making sure that things were up to date.

685
01:06:33,220 --> 01:06:36,900
I know they used to do it in college and all that, so it's just a thought.

686
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:40,200
Page 17.

687
01:06:44,180 --> 01:06:48,480
I guess I already guessed this was how do we respond to a violation if there's no one answers the door.

688
01:06:49,200 --> 01:07:00,720
Okay, and then my last question and I've been asking this since I think they beginning is why are we so afraid of doing this by special use permit?

689
01:07:01,540 --> 01:07:08,920
I recognize that we think there's only going to be a handful, you said that there might be, did you say 50 over 10 years?

690
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:15,040
Right. Okay, so we're doing special use permits for chickens. We're doing them for daycares.

691
01:07:15,500 --> 01:07:21,080
This to me is something that it impacts you as a homeowner that lives there

692
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:25,780
but it also impacts every neighbor that's around you. And I know that when we were doing our renovation

693
01:07:26,260 --> 01:07:32,020
and we wanted to get an exception to the, which is now it's even smaller than what we asked for

694
01:07:32,020 --> 01:07:37,960
but for the side yard, I mean we had to send out certified postcards and have all of our neighbors not really have a problem with it

695
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:39,120
and have that conversation.

696
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:43,120
To me, this is a really big decision that you

697
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:45,900
are making as a homeowner that is impacting all

698
01:07:45,900 --> 01:07:47,120
of those around you.

699
01:07:48,020 --> 01:07:54,620
And I would have a much easier ability to accept this,

700
01:07:54,940 --> 01:07:56,520
if it was a spice special use.

701
01:07:56,760 --> 01:08:01,240
But just really, really by right, I think I'm hopeful

702
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:02,780
that there's not going to be an extraordinary amount

703
01:08:02,780 --> 01:08:05,880
of these, but I don't think it hurts to do the special use.

704
01:08:05,980 --> 01:08:07,640
I think it makes sure that we just

705
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:10,820
have that extra layer of rubber stamping,

706
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:13,400
at essentially to make sure that it is what it is.

707
01:08:13,540 --> 01:08:16,240
And I think it gives, like I said, the neighbors around them,

708
01:08:16,420 --> 01:08:18,060
a real opportunity to understand what's

709
01:08:18,060 --> 01:08:19,300
going to be happening next to them

710
01:08:19,300 --> 01:08:20,760
and what they're going to be living next to.

711
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,600
So I would really, really like to see that at it in here.

712
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:30,460
I think the aversion to having ADUs be a special use permit,

713
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,900
just drawing back to 2016 when that was discussed,

714
01:08:34,700 --> 01:08:36,940
because ADUs used to be a special use permit.

715
01:08:36,940 --> 01:08:43,820
I think Council felt uncomfortable about having individual homeowners come to a meeting like

716
01:08:43,820 --> 01:08:50,260
this at City Council to explain improvements that they wanted to do in their home while

717
01:08:50,260 --> 01:08:56,100
other, you know, a brand new home could be built, three story, 35 foot high, 5,000 square

718
01:08:56,100 --> 01:09:02,280
foot home could be built without coming to City Council, but adding an accessory, dwelling

719
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:06,720
you and it brings people to City Council to a meeting like this.

720
01:09:07,300 --> 01:09:10,200
The check-in, this was before check-ins.

721
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:11,540
Before the check-in?

722
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:24,000
I think the thought is that council doesn't necessarily want more individual property cases coming to public hearings like chickens.

723
01:09:24,700 --> 01:09:27,340
I think this council member does to be totally honest.

724
01:09:27,340 --> 01:09:36,000
And I, you said back in 2016 when they did this, but we didn't have detached accessory dwelling units.

725
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:38,400
We had attached accessory dwelling units.

726
01:09:38,940 --> 01:09:45,840
So, you're saying that that requirement was removed in 2016 for attached dwelling units?

727
01:09:46,180 --> 01:09:46,720
Correct.

728
01:09:47,140 --> 01:09:47,280
Okay.

729
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:51,440
And I understand to what you're saying about tear down and build a 35 foot house.

730
01:09:51,440 --> 01:09:53,160
I mean, I think we've all seen the one on Warwick.

731
01:09:53,700 --> 01:09:59,100
But again, I think you have very angry neighbors that are really unhappy with what happened there.

732
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:07,820
I think if we're really only expecting 50 over a 10-year period to me, check the box, special permit,

733
01:10:07,980 --> 01:10:14,540
special use permit, easy breezy, and we get it going. So I'm not sure that I can support this without that.

734
01:10:14,780 --> 01:10:15,180
Thank you.

735
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:18,220
Councillor Member Bakes.

736
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:29,740
So with regard to height, we'll actually both height and setbacks. The requirements are proposed to

737
01:10:29,740 --> 01:10:37,320
are actually more strict than the existing requirements for non-dwelling unit accessory structures.

738
01:10:37,980 --> 01:10:38,200
Correct.

739
01:10:40,580 --> 01:10:44,600
And then, which, you know, also certainly don't require any additional parking.

740
01:10:44,700 --> 01:10:46,320
Granted, they don't have anybody living there.

741
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:54,080
But, you know, and additionally, residents are able to, as you mentioned, build the

742
01:10:54,080 --> 01:11:01,520
on to their house, add additional bed rooms, and then, of course, we have attached accessory

743
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:02,900
dwelling units allowed.

744
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,740
And so really to my mind, this is taking what is already allowed

745
01:11:08,740 --> 01:11:15,000
and providing some simply additional flexibility in terms of where it can be located and perhaps

746
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:21,100
even digital flexibility to allow for it to be even less overwhelming to the existing structure

747
01:11:21,100 --> 01:11:24,580
since it can be separated a bit from the existing house.

748
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:28,480
And additionally, as you mentioned,

749
01:11:29,540 --> 01:11:34,280
someone can build a house without permit.

750
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:46,100
And of course, we've seen additional houses built on lots that have been subdivided and sold off.

751
01:11:46,100 --> 01:12:02,040
And so this, to my mind, also provides an alternative to that, you know, that is perhaps a bit less disruptive, you know, or less impactful to the, you know, the streetscape, the existing aesthetic of the property.

752
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:13,760
And with regard to the question of according a special use permit, would that require the

753
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:18,000
applicant to pay the special use permit fee as well?

754
01:12:19,500 --> 01:12:27,040
So, I have concerns about that given for chickens, for daycare, you know, that kind of thing.

755
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:35,160
You know, certainly you can say that, you know, hands produce eggs, daycare provides an

756
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:43,720
income stream, but it's not something that is directly necessity for the, you know, the

757
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:49,160
people living there necessarily, but of course, housing is for the, you know, the people

758
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:51,460
who live in the excess we're going unit itself.

759
01:12:51,460 --> 01:13:00,920
And so from a housing availability perspective, I would have concerns about the burden

760
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:04,320
that that fee might place on people who want to do this.

761
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:11,400
And also I would imagine that the process for that would be a lot more labor-intensive

762
01:13:11,980 --> 01:13:16,880
right than for chickens or daycare because it's a matter of building additional structure

763
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:27,240
on the lot, so there would be, you know, the process involved for that. So, yeah, and then

764
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:28,480
again, you know, parking,

765
01:13:30,940 --> 01:13:34,060
we can, you know, of course, an additional house on, you know,

766
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:38,840
subdivided lot, does require additional parking, but other than that, you know, additions

767
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:45,400
or attach, rolling units, I believe, or under similar conditions, they have to fulfill the

768
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:52,080
department's for, you know, the House, but don't have to add additional spots for those.

769
01:13:52,260 --> 01:13:52,560
Is that right?

770
01:13:52,820 --> 01:13:52,920
Yeah.

771
01:13:53,900 --> 01:13:59,220
So, from that perspective, I see what's proposed as really only fair to the homeowners

772
01:13:59,220 --> 01:14:00,060
in the city.

773
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:03,260
Councilmember Harder, Chandler.

774
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:09,820
So I want to thank you for the report, and I also want to thank you for certainly following

775
01:14:09,820 --> 01:14:12,880
up on the wide array of questions that we had.

776
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:18,820
I know I was particularly interested in looking at our neighbors and what's happening around

777
01:14:18,820 --> 01:14:19,240
there.

778
01:14:19,660 --> 01:14:26,080
I was surprised that the low numbers that are pretty consistent across this region.

779
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:31,780
So we're talking about 50, possibly 50 over the course of 10 years.

780
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:40,800
When we go back to the parking, is there any indication that the existing dwelling units that

781
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:41,500
are attached?

782
01:14:41,500 --> 01:14:47,320
Are they clustered in our city in any way or are they spread this first throughout our city?

783
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:49,680
Right, they are spread out. There's about

784
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:53,400
2,000 or so and and there's no

785
01:14:54,060 --> 01:14:59,960
Neighborhood pattern of geographic pattern where they are and and there's the expectation that this would follow that same pattern

786
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:10,600
There's no information to indicate that these might be just clustered in one neighborhood, causing some kind of parking problem for at five a year.

787
01:15:11,460 --> 01:15:19,960
Right, there's no, there's not a unique enough element to say that certain neighborhoods would only be suitable for these or not.

788
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:27,580
Yeah, and I go back to just sort of our general desire to have a wide variety of housing options

789
01:15:27,580 --> 01:15:35,080
and our policy or our desired policy or aspiration of wanting to have people who are single family owners,

790
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:38,140
accommodate renters, those kinds of things.

791
01:15:38,620 --> 01:15:40,800
I see this as another viable option.

792
01:15:40,980 --> 01:15:42,440
It isn't a huge option.

793
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:49,520
Clearly the data that we requested looking at the region shows that this is a possibility for some

794
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:53,040
But it opens up an opportunity for some families.

795
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:56,680
I know of a neighbor who has an attached dwelling unit

796
01:15:56,680 --> 01:16:00,240
and the prior owner of the house is living in that

797
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:02,940
and her children are living in the main house.

798
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:04,060
It's a wonderful arrangement.

799
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:07,560
These kinds of opportunities for home owners

800
01:16:08,480 --> 01:16:12,100
are once that I absolutely support.

801
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:14,500
We're not talking about large volumes.

802
01:16:14,500 --> 01:16:22,460
we're not talking about every household having a hill that's going to distort the height,

803
01:16:22,480 --> 01:16:26,960
but I do think we're talking about an opportunity that's going to make a major difference

804
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:33,020
for families that choose this option. So thank you for your report. I appreciate all of the

805
01:16:33,020 --> 01:16:37,920
information that you gather to enter our questions. Councillor member Peterson.

806
01:16:39,490 --> 01:16:54,790
So, what is the list of different permits that a homeowner would have to obtain to actually put in place in attached ADU?

807
01:16:55,390 --> 01:17:03,090
From a zoning perspective, there would be a zoning permit, and then there would be coded administration building permits as needed.

808
01:17:03,470 --> 01:17:05,790
So, just like any other construction project.

809
01:17:05,790 --> 01:17:09,110
And that is the equivalent of a construction permit.

810
01:17:09,790 --> 01:17:10,090
Correct.

811
01:17:11,110 --> 01:17:11,190
Okay.

812
01:17:11,430 --> 01:17:12,250
So those are two.

813
01:17:12,550 --> 01:17:13,750
All right.

814
01:17:14,270 --> 01:17:18,150
Just I think one quick note on the special use permit question.

815
01:17:18,310 --> 01:17:24,670
One thing that seems a little bit different here is a detached ADU has proximity

816
01:17:24,670 --> 01:17:28,590
implications for neighbors that are different than an attached ADU.

817
01:17:29,010 --> 01:17:33,450
And that may raise the bar a little bit in terms of reactions that people have

818
01:17:33,450 --> 01:17:36,330
in terms of something being proposed and built,

819
01:17:36,550 --> 01:17:38,090
so it's probably worth considering.

820
01:17:39,050 --> 01:17:40,470
And as we think about whether or not

821
01:17:40,470 --> 01:17:43,370
a special use permit is something that we should do.

822
01:17:44,390 --> 01:17:46,410
I would like to go back to the parking issue,

823
01:17:46,510 --> 01:17:48,150
and I know we've set a lot about it,

824
01:17:48,630 --> 01:17:51,810
but I just want to say also, I appreciate very much.

825
01:17:52,190 --> 01:17:56,250
We have an opportunity to have some staff briefings

826
01:17:56,250 --> 01:17:59,050
on this and had some conversation around street parking.

827
01:17:59,750 --> 01:18:01,570
And I'd like to go back and just understand

828
01:18:01,570 --> 01:18:11,310
And there's a potential at least in some places that there's a risk that the amount of street parking would increase in certain locations.

829
01:18:12,390 --> 01:18:14,210
It could be for a couple different reasons.

830
01:18:14,210 --> 01:18:17,390
There just isn't sufficient expansion capacity on a lot, whatever.

831
01:18:18,150 --> 01:18:21,750
What's the remedy if that does appear to be the case?

832
01:18:22,990 --> 01:18:28,130
So remedy from a neighborhood perspective would be to petition the city for a parking district.

833
01:18:29,730 --> 01:18:38,710
So that would be, if a neighborhood has a parking problem that is the remedy that the city

834
01:18:38,710 --> 01:18:46,560
has established, is that the answer that you're looking for?

835
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:52,320
Well, I'm not sure what the answer is, I'm just meeting to understand for those situations

836
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:58,840
where that could be a problem, where that goes, in terms of being able to address it, I'm

837
01:18:58,840 --> 01:19:03,860
That's sure what's involved in becoming a parking district, but I just wonder maybe this

838
01:19:03,860 --> 01:19:07,960
gets back also to the question mark about a special use permit.

839
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:14,940
Is that a way in which that kind of a situation would be caught in a dress if it is that

840
01:19:14,940 --> 01:19:16,920
one of the options for that or no?

841
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:26,340
I suppose that's a consideration that Council could use in a special use permit situation if

842
01:19:26,340 --> 01:19:27,760
was a special use permit?

843
01:19:30,260 --> 01:19:35,480
Okay, and the issue is not that there would be so many detached

844
01:19:35,480 --> 01:19:39,480
aid to use in one place that it would contribute to volume. The issue is more site-specific

845
01:19:39,480 --> 01:19:44,080
where you would have a circumstance where there just isn't a configuration for off-street

846
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:48,320
parking sufficient. So you're forcing it on-street, where you already may have it stretched

847
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:54,140
as that. Yeah, so the special use permit being at the discretion of council, council can

848
01:19:54,140 --> 01:19:57,640
pick and choose and that's the plus and that's the minus of the special use permit, you know,

849
01:19:57,660 --> 01:19:59,980
the plus side is the council can make.

850
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:12,660
That spot determination, you know, the downside from a homeowner's perspective is the unknown that they have to go to city council and petition for this to be done.

851
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:13,680
Right.

852
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:23,580
If I could just switch gears to the numbers, came a little bit. I think the thank you for doing the assessments.

853
01:20:23,580 --> 01:20:28,580
there are two of them that I think we asked for that very helpful.

854
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:35,440
One is the effect on property assessments for people who choose not to build,

855
01:20:35,660 --> 01:20:37,340
just because the legal option is created.

856
01:20:37,540 --> 01:20:39,620
It looks like that's a non-issue,

857
01:20:41,440 --> 01:20:47,580
but there's a little bit of a caveat in that I think our comparative data on this

858
01:20:48,380 --> 01:20:52,420
is coming from places that are inside the Beltway predominantly.

859
01:20:52,420 --> 01:20:55,760
the outside of the belt, we have Fairfax County, it's a little bit different because there's

860
01:20:55,760 --> 01:21:01,900
a two-acre lot of minimums, so we're a little bit different territory. Sounds like it doesn't

861
01:21:01,900 --> 01:21:08,000
look like there would be an issue here, but I just wanted to note there's a little bit of

862
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:14,400
variation in the data sources here. The other thing is the numbers and if I understand at the end of

863
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:22,080
the day are best estimate, again with some of the same uncertainty because of apples and oranges here,

864
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:23,940
we're looking at like maybe five a year.

865
01:21:24,340 --> 01:21:25,120
Is that where this landed?

866
01:21:27,140 --> 01:21:27,440
OK.

867
01:21:28,460 --> 01:21:31,000
Helpful to know for a couple of different reasons.

868
01:21:31,460 --> 01:21:35,700
It doesn't look like there is likely to be land rush.

869
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:41,280
But it also looks like five a year is a manageable number

870
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:43,400
if it was determined that we did need

871
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:44,600
to do a special use permit.

872
01:21:44,860 --> 01:21:46,440
So it wouldn't be an overwhelming surge.

873
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:48,140
I'm not arguing for against it.

874
01:21:48,280 --> 01:21:51,920
This stage except I'm sympathetic to the concerns

875
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:57,260
that arise and lead to the need possibly for a special use permit here.

876
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:05,120
I think the other thing that when we discuss this was just helpful to know is this, well,

877
01:22:05,220 --> 01:22:09,560
we do have attached A to use. We have a lot of experience with that. The detached A to use

878
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:15,020
are a little bit different ball game. Not exactly the same and it sounds like there is some merit

879
01:22:15,020 --> 01:22:21,620
in taking it a step at a time in terms of how we implement a new policy so that we are going

880
01:22:21,620 --> 01:22:26,660
through a process of discovery, in terms of how this works and being cautious at the early stages

881
01:22:26,660 --> 01:22:31,400
until we get a better feel for what we are really in for, and in terms of the volume,

882
01:22:31,740 --> 01:22:35,420
the complexity of the impacts and all that, I don't want to overplay it because at

883
01:22:35,420 --> 01:22:41,560
five a year, it doesn't sound like a big deal, on the other hand, that it does sound like

884
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:46,160
it would be prudent to approach this in a way that is a little bit step at a time and

885
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:52,200
get the feedback we need to determine whether or not an at what point this can be a more

886
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:57,120
automated if you will approach to this. That would argue again back for at least considering

887
01:22:57,120 --> 01:23:02,880
the possibility of special use permit in the early stages to see how this goes. But I didn't want

888
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:08,360
to just bring that conversation forward because I appreciate the fact that we talked about that

889
01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:13,660
and that from a policy implementation perspective that it's almost like treating this as a pilot

890
01:23:13,660 --> 01:23:17,280
and taking some special care in its early stages.

891
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:24,720
Otherwise, do want to thank you for all of the work that you've done here.

892
01:23:24,780 --> 01:23:30,500
There's been a lot of assessment and it's been responsive and there's been a lot of work

893
01:23:30,500 --> 01:23:35,120
on both the design and the assessment side of this that I think has been very helpful.

894
01:23:35,580 --> 01:23:36,360
So, much appreciated.

895
01:23:36,820 --> 01:23:37,860
Thank you.

896
01:23:39,460 --> 01:23:40,340
Council Member Paul.

897
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:41,480
Thank you.

898
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:41,800
Excuse me.

899
01:23:41,820 --> 01:23:43,440
Thank you.

900
01:23:43,440 --> 01:23:47,820
I just did a quick search and it looks like the special use permit is $600.

901
01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:49,500
Is that sound?

902
01:23:49,700 --> 01:23:50,660
Okay, that might be correct.

903
01:23:50,860 --> 01:23:51,460
I'm not.

904
01:23:51,700 --> 01:23:52,880
Okay, certain off-hand.

905
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:53,980
Yeah, no.

906
01:23:54,180 --> 01:23:55,480
I just wanted to see what it was.

907
01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:59,760
And I also did some additional research and it looks like to build a 400 square foot house.

908
01:23:59,900 --> 01:24:04,100
You're looking between 175,000 and two hundred and seventy five thousand and two hundred and seventy five thousand dollars.

909
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:07,520
And to build an 800 to a thousand square foot, eighty you.

910
01:24:07,620 --> 01:24:10,160
Looking at three hundred thousand and four hundred and fifty thousand.

911
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:17,460
And so I do recognize that 600 is an extra fee, but I feel like for people that are likely

912
01:24:17,460 --> 01:24:22,000
going to be doing this, $600 is kind of a drop in the bucket with all of the other costs.

913
01:24:22,140 --> 01:24:25,040
So I still strongly support, especially his permit.

914
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:25,800
Thank you.

915
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:28,400
Thank you for the presentation.

916
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:29,820
I do agree.

917
01:24:30,140 --> 01:24:34,660
It was thorough and you did answer questions that previously came up in the work session.

918
01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:37,840
As far as the parking goes, there is a parking problem.

919
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:41,780
We have a lot of rentals in the city that have college students in them.

920
01:24:42,440 --> 01:24:49,260
And there's no mechanism for enforcing limitations on how many vehicles a rental can have.

921
01:24:49,620 --> 01:24:52,900
So what we're basically saying is if there's a parking problem in a neighborhood

922
01:24:52,900 --> 01:24:56,880
because we have a rental with no mechanism for limiting the number of vehicles

923
01:24:56,880 --> 01:24:58,860
where there's 3, 4, 5 or 6.

924
01:24:59,160 --> 01:24:59,980
Instead we're going to...

925
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:24,340
To put the burden on an ADU to meet these requirements. We have a parking issue. I grant you. But giving a free pass to renters in the city and putting the burden on renters of an ADU, or even not even renters because I think we're overlooking the fact that a lot of these ADUs may be for family use and they're not rental properties at all.

926
01:25:24,340 --> 01:25:29,720
I don't think there should be a greater burden on properties with an ADU than we are placing

927
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:33,040
on lots of rental properties that have lots of vehicles.

928
01:25:33,380 --> 01:25:36,460
So that would be my feedback on that.

929
01:25:37,420 --> 01:25:44,840
And as far as is the buy-right use of building an ADU, the city is full of yards that have

930
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:50,980
sheds, angerages, and lots of external uses that are the basic footprint, maybe not the

931
01:25:50,980 --> 01:25:55,660
to the script, basic footprint of what we're talking about with an accessory dwelling unit.

932
01:25:56,000 --> 01:26:01,140
And while there might not be people living in there, the fact that matter is the city is full

933
01:26:01,140 --> 01:26:06,540
of yards that have sheds and garages in them. And no one came to us to ask if we like the design

934
01:26:06,540 --> 01:26:11,960
or the location or anything else. We can do it by right. We can boot by right because we own the property.

935
01:26:12,580 --> 01:26:19,280
And so I do have an issue with thinking that this dius or any dius or every dius that's elected every

936
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:24,400
other year should have an upper-down vote on what people want to build in their yard, because

937
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:28,140
we don't do that for the other structures they're currently building in their yard.

938
01:26:28,580 --> 01:26:33,900
So I fully support the fact that two parking spaces is adequate, understanding that parking

939
01:26:33,900 --> 01:26:38,800
is not an insignificant issue for neighborhoods, but we've already got a problem with vehicles

940
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:40,900
for rental properties anyway.

941
01:26:41,480 --> 01:26:47,900
And the fact that it should be by right, because at $300,000, we are not going to have a

942
01:26:47,900 --> 01:26:53,180
and that think to yourself if you build something for $300,000, how many

943
01:26:53,180 --> 01:26:57,060
renters you'd have to have over what period of time to make your

944
01:26:57,060 --> 01:27:01,580
investment back? My feeling is probably that people are going to choose this

945
01:27:01,580 --> 01:27:08,040
because they have significantly greater reasons having to do with their

946
01:27:08,040 --> 01:27:13,580
family to invest $300,000 and that it is not a money-making enterprise because

947
01:27:13,580 --> 01:27:17,080
that kind of money making enterprise makes no sense financially.

948
01:27:18,220 --> 01:27:20,700
So just putting that out there.

949
01:27:20,980 --> 01:27:23,400
And with that, I will ask if there is a motion.

950
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:26,560
Oh, sorry.

951
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:27,280
Public hearing.

952
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:29,400
Skip to steps.

953
01:27:29,780 --> 01:27:29,800
Sorry.

954
01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:30,520
Okay.

955
01:27:30,620 --> 01:27:31,740
I will open the public hearing.

956
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:32,300
Missionary.

957
01:27:32,540 --> 01:27:34,060
Has this public hearing been properly advertised?

958
01:27:34,160 --> 01:27:34,920
Yes, it has.

959
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:37,820
Someone has signed up prior to the meeting to speak.

960
01:27:38,220 --> 01:27:40,100
And then after that person speaks well, open the floor.

961
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:41,320
There's anybody else in the room.

962
01:27:41,660 --> 01:27:43,820
So the one person that spoke is Katie Johnson.

963
01:27:43,820 --> 01:27:45,840
are we'll be speaking with K. Johnson.

964
01:27:55,790 --> 01:27:58,410
Katie Johnson and the clerk has my address. I came

965
01:27:58,410 --> 01:28:06,450
tonight to ask that ADUs be approved by special use permit. I'm happy to hear council members

966
01:28:06,450 --> 01:28:12,350
halls concern. I share those concerns. I generally support ADUs but only with very strong

967
01:28:12,350 --> 01:28:17,930
guard bills. I ask the city to retain the ability to ensure appropriateness and ensure no

968
01:28:17,930 --> 01:28:22,710
negative impacts on neighbors or neighborhoods. Parking is absolutely a concern and should have

969
01:28:22,710 --> 01:28:27,610
plan for enforcement. City should also have in place a process, much like the city

970
01:28:27,610 --> 01:28:32,590
retains the right to inspect chicken's cubes. The city must have the ability to

971
01:28:32,590 --> 01:28:38,650
enforce the ordinances. The shed on my house, there are places that I cannot put

972
01:28:38,650 --> 01:28:43,730
my shed. I cannot put my shed in the RPA. I cannot put my shed. I had to get

973
01:28:43,730 --> 01:28:48,430
special exception to put my shed where it is. So there are rules about where

974
01:28:49,090 --> 01:28:56,630
But my concern also is we have the ability to inspect chicken coops to ensure that the chickens are safe.

975
01:28:57,090 --> 01:29:02,690
Why do we not have the same ability? Why can't the city retain the same ability to make sure?

976
01:29:02,830 --> 01:29:07,270
And ensure that the people living in these small places are safe as well.

977
01:29:07,710 --> 01:29:08,590
Thank you.

978
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:13,580
Okay. So anybody else in the room that would like to speak on this agenda item?

979
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:25,680
Good evening Mayor Reed.

980
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:32,760
members of Council. I'm Jim Gillespie. I live at 3604 Colony Road. I'm speaking tonight on

981
01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:40,280
behave on behalf of the ADU ordinance amendment. As we all know, there's a regional shortage

982
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:47,480
of housing at all price points. There's a shortage of housing for young adults. There's a

983
01:29:47,480 --> 01:29:53,900
shortage of housing for seniors. There's a shortage of housing for everybody in between. And

984
01:29:53,900 --> 01:29:58,420
The A to U unit ordinance would be a modest, but meaningful.

985
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:29,980
Step in the direction of providing housing for some people who need it. Now you may think 50 housing units over a decade or so, well, does that really do anything? Well, it does a lot for those 50 people. They are getting a home when they did not have it before. And I think a little bit about a situation in my own extended family. I have a close relative who is roughly my age, who is disabled. And at this point, I have a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of

986
01:30:29,980 --> 01:30:38,900
is living in a senior living residence and barely affording it and I think about what it would

987
01:30:38,900 --> 01:30:46,680
be like to have that person come and live in my home and we could make it work but it would

988
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:53,600
be difficult, it would be a sacrifice for us, it would be a real sacrifice to the dignity of

989
01:30:53,600 --> 01:31:01,940
person to be a border in my home, and an ADU kind of arrangement would provide that person with

990
01:31:01,940 --> 01:31:08,380
more autonomy, the feeling of living independently, of having more responsibility for their own

991
01:31:08,380 --> 01:31:08,780
life.

992
01:31:09,420 --> 01:31:14,640
So I thank you for all of the work that staff has done for all the many efforts that you have

993
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:19,080
done to study this issue to assess it, and I hope you will vote yes.

994
01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:20,200
Thank you.

995
01:31:23,940 --> 01:31:26,100
Is there anybody else in the room that would like to speak?

996
01:31:29,260 --> 01:31:30,040
Is there a motion?

997
01:31:31,080 --> 01:31:32,680
I move to approve an ordinance of

998
01:31:32,680 --> 01:31:36,900
Mending Chapter 110 zoning to amend portions of the

999
01:31:36,900 --> 01:31:40,320
Articles and sections contained there in including

1000
01:31:40,320 --> 01:31:44,640
Introductory provisions zoning districts and regulations and definitions.

1001
01:31:45,820 --> 01:31:46,580
Is there a second?

1002
01:31:48,480 --> 01:31:50,060
Motion is made by council member,

1003
01:31:50,120 --> 01:31:51,820
Hardie Chandler, seconded by council member,

1004
01:31:51,940 --> 01:31:53,000
Peterson, a roll call vote.

1005
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:54,940
Hang on, are we going to have discussion?

1006
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:56,880
Is there a discussion on the motion?

1007
01:31:57,880 --> 01:31:58,680
Council member Peterson?

1008
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:01,380
Yes, is this something that we need to do to

1009
01:32:01,380 --> 01:32:03,900
the nighters that possible that this could be allowed

1010
01:32:03,900 --> 01:32:08,240
some further public review of what we just saw tonight

1011
01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:11,200
before we make a decision here?

1012
01:32:11,500 --> 01:32:14,360
Council, always has a discretion to defer action

1013
01:32:14,360 --> 01:32:16,600
on an item within appropriate motion.

1014
01:32:18,300 --> 01:32:21,220
And I would be interested in the sense of the body here

1015
01:32:21,220 --> 01:32:26,540
whether that's something that would be acceptable, it does seem that we're voting on something

1016
01:32:26,540 --> 01:32:30,180
we just saw, I know it's been around for a while, on the other hand, we've seen some new

1017
01:32:30,180 --> 01:32:30,560
information.

1018
01:32:30,740 --> 01:32:32,240
Do you want to make a substitute motion?

1019
01:32:32,580 --> 01:32:35,880
Is that how we would proceed against Mr. Lumperman?

1020
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:38,040
That would be the mechanism.

1021
01:32:38,500 --> 01:32:40,620
The person, do you want to make a substitute motion?

1022
01:32:41,320 --> 01:32:45,140
Yes, and I will need help from Mr. Lumperman to get the exact word and correct.

1023
01:32:45,140 --> 01:32:53,980
So, if I may, I assume you'll just be asking to defer action on this item to a date certain of blank.

1024
01:32:54,780 --> 01:32:58,320
The next time we get together, next early this time we get together.

1025
01:32:59,920 --> 01:33:02,200
I believe that would be September the 8th.

1026
01:33:03,100 --> 01:33:06,840
That would be fine for my standpoint, but I don't need to make a motion.

1027
01:33:08,060 --> 01:33:11,140
Let's defer consideration until September 8th.

1028
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:13,220
Is there a second?

1029
01:33:14,140 --> 01:33:14,620
Second.

1030
01:33:15,460 --> 01:33:20,300
Emotions been made by Councilmember Peterson and seconded by Councilmember Hall or roll call vote.

1031
01:33:20,620 --> 01:33:23,020
Is there a comment available at this time?

1032
01:33:23,660 --> 01:33:25,320
Do you want to, yes, discussion on the motion?

1033
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:30,820
Yeah, I really, I think that we gave a lot of time for the noise ordinance.

1034
01:33:31,240 --> 01:33:36,320
And then the city of Fairfax government put out a post and people are all up in arms about it.

1035
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:42,660
And I just think that something of this magnitude while it very well may pass and people might be very very supportive of it

1036
01:33:42,660 --> 01:33:48,580
I think that the timing of the more finalized versions of this came out in June now we're doing this in July

1037
01:33:48,580 --> 01:33:52,500
These are historically vacation months people are not here

1038
01:33:52,500 --> 01:33:56,740
So I just think that we need a little bit more time to be able to give people to

1039
01:33:56,740 --> 01:34:03,540
Understand this. I'd love to see this city put out something about this so that we can, you know, share it all around and really garnish a

1040
01:34:03,540 --> 01:34:08,580
additional support, whether in favor or against just so we know that we're making a decision

1041
01:34:08,580 --> 01:34:09,420
with more information.

1042
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:10,280
Thank you.

1043
01:34:10,460 --> 01:34:11,260
Councilmember Amis?

1044
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:18,480
I just took my comment to the first being, you know, part of it is we're not going to know

1045
01:34:18,480 --> 01:34:22,060
what needs to be fixed until it's implemented unfortunately, especially when it comes to

1046
01:34:22,060 --> 01:34:28,060
parking to the actual number of ADUs and we gauge interest on where this is popping up.

1047
01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:33,320
And if we're going to hit that 50 target in the next 10 years or maybe lower if it's

1048
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:41,440
that's something we'll need to track. The other, I'm very hesitant on the special use

1049
01:34:41,440 --> 01:34:45,280
permit particularly because I just feel like that people have a right to their property

1050
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:50,320
and they should be allowed to develop it within a reason. I do feel like the board of zoning appeals

1051
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:58,540
is capable of assessing that. The point about deferral and the discussion on the motion, I guess my question

1052
01:34:58,540 --> 01:34:59,960
would be why wouldn't we defer more?

1053
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:07,880
Or actions that happen over summer in general when people are traveling. Unfortunately, you know, business has to get, has to get done.

1054
01:35:08,240 --> 01:35:10,020
This is my personal feeling on that.

1055
01:35:10,300 --> 01:35:11,500
And some member of Koolham?

1056
01:35:14,300 --> 01:35:21,900
I would like a differ, because I would like to ask a little bit more information, gather more information regarding the special use permit process.

1057
01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:29,200
My understanding that is that it can take quite a long time for some people, so I want to better understand that process more.

1058
01:35:29,200 --> 01:35:31,660
This is something that just came up this evening.

1059
01:35:31,740 --> 01:35:34,660
This isn't something that we really discussed in detail prior.

1060
01:35:35,160 --> 01:35:37,720
So deferring this to the next meeting would allow me that ability.

1061
01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:39,940
Thank you.

1062
01:35:40,220 --> 01:35:41,140
Councilmember Bades.

1063
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:48,520
So first off, this is something that as I recall has been in the work since we last years.

1064
01:35:48,900 --> 01:35:49,380
Is that right?

1065
01:35:49,660 --> 01:35:50,860
If not earlier.

1066
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:57,480
And so it's not something that was introduced, you know, just a month or two ago.

1067
01:35:57,480 --> 01:36:02,360
You know, it's been on public agendas, we've received feedback about it.

1068
01:36:03,560 --> 01:36:16,540
With regard to the special use permit, first off, is a resident required to pay that fee regardless of whether or not the city council ultimately votes it up or down.

1069
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:17,640
Yes, that's correct.

1070
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:27,460
So again, you know, we don't know what the financial means of the applicant, you know, every single applicant is going to be.

1071
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:34,700
They may have an agreement with someone who may be the verivorous occupant of that unit, where they

1072
01:36:34,700 --> 01:36:39,260
paid a billed it, what have you, and then they're in a situation where they're out almost

1073
01:36:39,260 --> 01:36:47,760
$1,000 plus the additional costs they may have incurred through having somebody help prepare

1074
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:52,220
whatever documentation they might need or what have you don't know what goes into that,

1075
01:36:56,860 --> 01:36:57,440
and without

1076
01:36:57,440 --> 01:36:58,020
Recently,

1077
01:37:00,700 --> 01:37:09,680
I recall from reviewing the language of the ordinance that, and I believe, was also

1078
01:37:09,680 --> 01:37:20,020
actually mentioned here tonight, if the property is due to whatever circumstances, guess

1079
01:37:20,020 --> 01:37:24,880
to a point where it's no longer in conformance with the requirements that forth there, they're

1080
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:32,680
allowed to use that ADU? Is that right? Yes. And that exists regardless of whether or not

1081
01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:40,560
there is a special use permit process and would there be any difference in enforcement of

1082
01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:48,080
that if there is a special use permit process or not? Well, that's up to council. The bare minimum

1083
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:54,660
for a special use permit, what the changes would be in the zoning ordinance, there's a table

1084
01:37:54,660 --> 01:38:03,040
In the zoning ordinance called the Accessory Use Table, Accessory Dwelling Units are listed in there,

1085
01:38:03,380 --> 01:38:09,700
Accessory Dwelling Units are listed as permitted uses in the RHRL in our Amazon's.

1086
01:38:09,900 --> 01:38:19,500
That could be changed to a special use permit to cover all ADUs or it could be split into Accessory Dwelling Units attached

1087
01:38:19,500 --> 01:38:26,760
an accessory unit, accessory going units detached, one would be special, one would be permitted.

1088
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:32,280
In that case we would need a definition of each in the definition section, but that's

1089
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:40,500
the bare minimum and the standards that we reviewed today could stay the same if that's

1090
01:38:40,500 --> 01:38:46,460
Council's wishes, if Council wishes to add other standards you all could do that as well.

1091
01:38:46,460 --> 01:38:54,760
Yeah, but so with regard to the enforcement mechanism, would that be any different in terms of, you know,

1092
01:38:54,980 --> 01:39:00,700
there's there's similar enforcement mechanisms to SUP's that the SUP is permitted, you know,

1093
01:39:00,940 --> 01:39:10,020
for whatever is applied for and if that changes then that would be out of conformity in the property owner would have to come back for a new SUP if that changes.

1094
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:26,620
But in terms of how that's enforced with regard to, you know, what's proposed, it's, would you say that it's similar to, you know, that provision that's currently in there, you know, and it's not in conformance and in a longer function.

1095
01:39:27,200 --> 01:39:34,800
Correct. That would be similar to the difference would be if Council imposes additional requirements as part of the SUP process.

1096
01:39:35,120 --> 01:39:38,280
That would be something that's above and beyond what's in the zoning ordinance.

1097
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:50,000
We could also if we wanted to amend or set the requirements as is, you know, regardless of whether there's an SEP or not.

1098
01:39:50,720 --> 01:39:50,740
Yeah.

1099
01:39:51,220 --> 01:39:53,840
And so we've already discussed those requirements previously.

1100
01:39:53,940 --> 01:39:55,680
Anyways, just some clarification.

1101
01:39:56,180 --> 01:39:56,840
That's very helpful.

1102
01:39:57,160 --> 01:39:58,060
Thank you.

1103
01:39:58,060 --> 01:39:59,460
Can you remember harder, Chandler?

1104
01:40:00,050 --> 01:40:16,510
I think put simply what concerns me is adding a burden to people who may want to pursue this option and a burden that wouldn't be in place if they were doing something else like simply improving their property in a different way.

1105
01:40:16,510 --> 01:40:23,230
So the added burden that does not feel fair to me is not something that I'm wanting to consider.

1106
01:40:23,430 --> 01:40:37,990
I wanted to be an encouragement for people to consider this when it's right for their family and the right for their financial circumstances rather than sort of punishing them and adding extra hoops for them to jump through in order to have this happen.

1107
01:40:38,770 --> 01:40:42,310
So I'm in support of continuing with the vote today.

1108
01:40:42,310 --> 01:40:44,230
Council member Pearson.

1109
01:40:44,810 --> 01:40:53,270
And just to clarify, my interest here was actually not to address the special use permit issue,

1110
01:40:54,230 --> 01:40:56,230
which sounds like there's still some conversation around,

1111
01:40:57,030 --> 01:41:00,150
but really to give residents a chance to digest this a little bit.

1112
01:41:00,210 --> 01:41:04,250
Sometimes it seems like it's a little bit much for us to receive new information.

1113
01:41:05,170 --> 01:41:10,390
People are giving, I mean, bite people to do a public hearing the same night and they've just seen it.

1114
01:41:10,390 --> 01:41:12,830
And in some cases, have not even yet seen it.

1115
01:41:13,110 --> 01:41:15,830
It's difficult for people to be able to access

1116
01:41:15,830 --> 01:41:18,230
some of this information ahead of time and digest it.

1117
01:41:18,310 --> 01:41:21,230
We're actually getting explanations here that help them do that.

1118
01:41:21,250 --> 01:41:22,850
And then we turn right around and we vote.

1119
01:41:23,290 --> 01:41:26,090
And if there's no harm in giving a little bit more time

1120
01:41:26,090 --> 01:41:29,350
for people to digest this, in case there is something

1121
01:41:29,350 --> 01:41:32,550
out of that that's meaningful, I don't see why we wouldn't

1122
01:41:32,550 --> 01:41:32,930
delay.

1123
01:41:33,590 --> 01:41:36,070
And in terms of the July time frame,

1124
01:41:36,070 --> 01:41:37,330
I mean, people are busy all the time.

1125
01:41:37,350 --> 01:41:39,910
I will say, however, I have received some comments.

1126
01:41:39,910 --> 01:41:46,710
from residents who have expressed the concern that they've been out of pocket pretty badly

1127
01:41:46,710 --> 01:41:51,890
in July and are having a hard time keeping up with what's going on in terms of city business.

1128
01:41:52,130 --> 01:41:57,370
So this is a time when it's been a little bit tougher probably than normal to do that.

1129
01:41:57,510 --> 01:42:03,630
And I would think because of significant new information that we're having in front of us tonight

1130
01:42:03,630 --> 01:42:08,790
on the lack of the opportunity for people to really have time to digest it and for us to be able to hear

1131
01:42:08,790 --> 01:42:14,050
from them. And again, there may be no feedback whatsoever, but as in the case of the noise

1132
01:42:14,050 --> 01:42:19,390
ordinance, there may be quite a bit of feedback. In any case, it would be great to give

1133
01:42:19,390 --> 01:42:24,750
us that opportunity a possible. And I don't think it's a major burden in terms of the postponement

1134
01:42:24,750 --> 01:42:30,850
here for another decision. I also don't think it would require a particularly large amount

1135
01:42:30,850 --> 01:42:36,750
of time to act on this when it does come back. So that was really the intention that I

1136
01:42:36,750 --> 01:42:42,970
here. Thank you. Councilmember Hall. Thank you. I do also want to remind everyone that this was

1137
01:42:42,970 --> 01:42:51,470
the body earlier this month who delayed the implementation of and otherwise agreed upon council

1138
01:42:53,710 --> 01:43:00,550
code of ethics to allow our boards and commissions time to review it when it wasn't even decided

1139
01:43:00,550 --> 01:43:03,390
that they were going to be subject to it.

1140
01:43:03,710 --> 01:43:07,370
So I just have a hard time not allowing additional time

1141
01:43:07,370 --> 01:43:10,590
for our 24,000 residents to make sure that they've

1142
01:43:10,590 --> 01:43:13,950
wrapped their heads around this potential change

1143
01:43:13,950 --> 01:43:15,290
to their neighborhoods.

1144
01:43:15,630 --> 01:43:16,950
Can we remember any of this?

1145
01:43:17,290 --> 01:43:19,950
And just for clarification on that, in that meeting,

1146
01:43:20,590 --> 01:43:22,630
I asked Mr. Lupkeman if the timeline was affected

1147
01:43:22,630 --> 01:43:24,850
if we did that action, and he said no.

1148
01:43:25,890 --> 01:43:28,470
So the timeline was not changed because of that.

1149
01:43:28,470 --> 01:43:35,750
So, if there's no further discussion on this motion to defer, can we take a roll call vote?

1150
01:43:36,310 --> 01:43:37,030
Missionaberry.

1151
01:43:38,390 --> 01:43:39,430
Councilmember Amis.

1152
01:43:40,810 --> 01:43:41,630
Councilmember Hall.

1153
01:43:42,730 --> 01:43:43,730
Councilmember Hardy Chandler.

1154
01:43:43,910 --> 01:43:44,070
No.

1155
01:43:44,790 --> 01:43:45,510
Councilmember Peterson.

1156
01:43:45,810 --> 01:43:45,970
Aye.

1157
01:43:46,790 --> 01:43:47,890
Councilmember Bates.

1158
01:43:48,330 --> 01:43:48,430
No.

1159
01:43:49,090 --> 01:43:49,970
Councilmember McCulland.

1160
01:43:50,190 --> 01:43:50,430
Yes.

1161
01:43:50,910 --> 01:43:52,130
Motion failed 3-3.

1162
01:43:55,620 --> 01:44:00,160
So, the original motion, which was made by Councilmember Hardy Chandler

1163
01:44:00,160 --> 01:44:07,020
and seconded by Councilmember Peterson, is there discussion on the original motion before we take a roll call about Councilmember Hall?

1164
01:44:07,880 --> 01:44:14,640
I'd like to make it very clear that I think that this could be an excellent opportunity for our community, for our residents.

1165
01:44:15,240 --> 01:44:27,300
I simply do not feel that those that are away and that have spent the summer since their kids have been out of school have sufficient time to truly understand and digest what is included here,

1166
01:44:27,300 --> 01:44:31,060
which is why I strongly supported him was going to ask for a delay myself.

1167
01:44:32,140 --> 01:44:35,580
So my vote tonight is not a no against ADUs.

1168
01:44:35,780 --> 01:44:39,900
It's a no against the process that is not allowing our residents

1169
01:44:39,900 --> 01:44:43,620
efficient time to absorb this information. Thank you.

1170
01:44:45,660 --> 01:44:46,980
Any other discussion on the motion?

1171
01:44:47,440 --> 01:44:52,240
And I will simply say we've been working on this ADU amendment. I believe since I was elected mayor.

1172
01:44:52,780 --> 01:44:55,940
So it is not something new. We have had work sessions on it.

1173
01:44:55,940 --> 01:44:59,980
There may not have been work sessions you saw previous to being on this kind of

1174
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:10,300
Council, but we have been talking about this ADU ordinance since at least 20, 24. They have not 20, 23. So, with that, a roll call vote.

1175
01:45:13,890 --> 01:45:15,670
Okay, council member, Macboan.

1176
01:45:16,630 --> 01:45:33,050
I do want to just state on the record that I will be voting no on this because I too in our last meeting was convinced and in being collaborative and trying to ensure that everyone in my colleagues had enough time to speak with their consent.

1177
01:45:33,050 --> 01:45:38,450
constituents and do their due diligence. I decided to go ahead and agree with the

1178
01:45:38,450 --> 01:45:43,830
rest of Council that we would delay adopting our code of ethics. And this evening,

1179
01:45:44,410 --> 01:45:49,370
I was also kind of in the same boat here where I was going, okay, especially his

1180
01:45:49,370 --> 01:45:53,550
permit for $600. That's a lot of money. I know some of the timing, the process

1181
01:45:53,550 --> 01:45:58,470
can take a long time. However, I'm not even given enough time to speak with constituents

1182
01:45:58,470 --> 01:46:04,530
and talk to them about this to ensure that they understand that this is what's going to happen

1183
01:46:04,530 --> 01:46:09,830
when this is approved this evening. So I just want to let everyone know that I'm not saying

1184
01:46:09,830 --> 01:46:14,610
no to 80's because I actually support them fully. I'm very frustrated that the process

1185
01:46:15,190 --> 01:46:20,890
tonight that we're saying that we don't care about what our constituents think about this. We have

1186
01:46:20,890 --> 01:46:27,210
all of this set out really nicely now. We know exactly what it entails and our constituents can look

1187
01:46:27,210 --> 01:46:29,890
get over and give us really good accurate feedback.

1188
01:46:30,390 --> 01:46:31,150
They're all on vacation.

1189
01:46:31,310 --> 01:46:32,610
Everybody is gone this summer.

1190
01:46:32,810 --> 01:46:33,350
We know this.

1191
01:46:33,650 --> 01:46:34,750
They're going to return next month

1192
01:46:34,750 --> 01:46:36,250
because school starts in August.

1193
01:46:36,710 --> 01:46:38,130
Can we really wait for one month?

1194
01:46:38,210 --> 01:46:40,110
Yes, we could, but we're not going to tonight.

1195
01:46:40,790 --> 01:46:43,450
So my vote will be a no, but it's not against ADUs

1196
01:46:43,450 --> 01:46:46,310
because I do want affordability and I want housing here.

1197
01:46:46,410 --> 01:46:49,630
However, I'm very frustrated that we feel like it's okay

1198
01:46:49,630 --> 01:46:53,870
to just push things along and not give a deferment.

1199
01:46:53,930 --> 01:46:54,970
Thank you.

1200
01:46:58,310 --> 01:46:59,190
Councilmember Peterson?

1201
01:47:00,530 --> 01:47:21,910
Yeah, it is. I think a little bit frustrating for everybody to be in this position. I support the detached ADU approach. I do think there's a little bit of unfinished business here and if we're not going to be able to give ourselves some breathing room to let people give us feedback and tie this up with a nice bow when we get back the way we really ought to.

1202
01:47:21,910 --> 01:47:29,610
I would just say that I would hope that our city manager and city staff would move forward

1203
01:47:29,610 --> 01:47:38,910
in a manner that would retain flexibility as needed to address needs that may come up

1204
01:47:38,910 --> 01:47:46,810
as a consequence of public feedback that we receive after the evenings vote and that we

1205
01:47:46,810 --> 01:47:52,910
stay flexible and responsive every step of the way, and that could be special use permit,

1206
01:47:53,210 --> 01:47:55,150
but it could be any number of other things.

1207
01:47:55,770 --> 01:48:00,390
As I mentioned earlier, this is going to go into an early implementation phase.

1208
01:48:00,770 --> 01:48:02,610
It will be an early period of discovery.

1209
01:48:03,230 --> 01:48:08,890
It will be much like a pilot, and I will support this, but it will be based on the assumption

1210
01:48:09,610 --> 01:48:15,190
that we will take seriously feedback that we receive, and that we will act on that feedback

1211
01:48:15,190 --> 01:48:20,310
without hesitation, as necessary, and retain the flexibility we need to do that.

1212
01:48:20,750 --> 01:48:26,510
So I will be supporting this, but I must say I have real reservations about the way in

1213
01:48:26,510 --> 01:48:30,890
which we're doing this, and we're not giving people a chance to have a last look at something

1214
01:48:30,890 --> 01:48:32,530
that has some new elements to it.

1215
01:48:32,570 --> 01:48:33,470
Thank you.

1216
01:48:35,940 --> 01:48:36,760
Any other comments?

1217
01:48:37,400 --> 01:48:38,600
Seeing none of what we'll call vote?

1218
01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:39,900
Councilmember Amis?

1219
01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:41,800
Councilmember Hall?

1220
01:48:42,640 --> 01:48:43,680
Councilmember Hardy Chandler?

1221
01:48:44,760 --> 01:48:45,420
Councilmember Peterson?

1222
01:48:45,700 --> 01:48:45,940
Aye.

1223
01:48:45,940 --> 01:48:47,340
Council Member Bates?

1224
01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:47,660
Aye.

1225
01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:48,740
Council Member McQueen?

1226
01:48:50,660 --> 01:48:51,140
No.

1227
01:48:51,560 --> 01:48:51,800
Okay.

1228
01:48:51,820 --> 01:48:53,940
Most room pass for the two.

1229
01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:54,960
Okay.

1230
01:48:55,360 --> 01:48:58,100
We will go on to the second general public comment.

1231
01:48:58,480 --> 01:49:01,960
Is there anybody that I would like to make a general public comment tonight?

1232
01:49:05,960 --> 01:49:06,320
All right.

1233
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:09,600
Seeing none, we will now recess the regular meeting to go into a work session.

1234
01:49:09,760 --> 01:49:13,440
We'll take a five minute recess to move into the work session room.

1235
01:56:58,220 --> 01:57:06,780
Welcome to our work session. Before we begin the work session, I want to give a background on the development review process for applications.

1236
01:57:08,040 --> 01:57:26,700
The development review process was established through a series of mayor and city council retreats to ensure development concepts or presented to the mayor and council as a whole, rather than through individual meetings. This approach promotes transparency by ensuring all elected officials receive the same information at the same time.

1237
01:57:26,700 --> 01:57:32,120
Pre-application Briefings occur before a formal application is submitted.

1238
01:57:32,740 --> 01:57:38,260
At this stage, City staff provides a high-level overview of a proposed concept.

1239
01:57:38,820 --> 01:57:41,620
And the potential applicant is available to answer questions.

1240
01:57:42,060 --> 01:57:47,620
The plans are conceptual, and the mayor and city council may offer general observations as guidance.

1241
01:57:48,420 --> 01:57:55,780
Once a formal application is submitted and accepted, City staff conducts a detailed review for compliance

1242
01:57:55,780 --> 01:58:02,060
with applicable codes and policies. Post-submission work sessions include an in-depth

1243
01:58:02,060 --> 01:58:07,840
staff analysis and typically occur after the applicant has addressed initial staff comments

1244
01:58:07,840 --> 01:58:14,640
and before the application proceeds to public hearings. The process has been reviewed and refined

1245
01:58:14,640 --> 01:58:20,640
over time by successive mayor and city councils. Changes have included clarifying materials to

1246
01:58:20,640 --> 01:58:34,520
which pre-application briefings from post-submission work sessions and allowing potential applicants to answer questions during pre-application briefings to provide additional context for conceptual proposals.

1247
01:58:34,780 --> 01:58:39,500
So we are just setting the stage for where we are with this work session.

1248
01:58:39,820 --> 01:58:42,700
Missionary, what is our first work session here?

1249
01:58:42,700 --> 01:58:48,880
Our first item is a pre-application briefing on a request by Network Realty Partners for the

1250
01:58:48,880 --> 01:58:53,920
redevelopment of 3, 5, 4, 1, chain bridge road, and we're going to recognize Clare Schweiger

1251
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:56,000
or city planner for the staff presentation.

1252
01:58:56,960 --> 01:58:58,220
Good evening, Mayor and Council.

1253
01:58:58,460 --> 01:59:04,160
First up, tonight for work sessions is a discussion on a potential redevelopment at 3541

1254
01:59:04,160 --> 01:59:05,260
chain bridge road.

1255
01:59:06,520 --> 01:59:11,580
We are currently in the pre-application stage of the Development Review process, so a formal

1256
01:59:11,580 --> 01:59:13,940
land use application has not yet been submitted.

1257
01:59:14,660 --> 01:59:16,580
City staff have met with the potential applicant

1258
01:59:16,580 --> 01:59:19,960
and provided initial feedback on the potential proposal.

1259
01:59:22,720 --> 01:59:26,220
So the top left image here is an aerial of the site.

1260
01:59:26,580 --> 01:59:29,060
The site is located at the southeast corner

1261
01:59:29,060 --> 01:59:31,320
of Chainbridge Road in Eaton Place,

1262
01:59:31,740 --> 01:59:34,900
west of University Drive, and north of Fairfax Boulevard.

1263
01:59:35,620 --> 01:59:38,020
The future land use designation for the site

1264
01:59:38,020 --> 01:59:40,060
is the activities center of police type,

1265
01:59:40,060 --> 01:59:46,700
and the site is located in the North Facts activity center and is subject to the North Facts

1266
01:59:46,700 --> 01:59:53,240
Small Area Plan. The site is currently zoned CR Commercial Retail and the potential applicant

1267
01:59:53,240 --> 01:59:56,920
proposes to reason to see you commercial urban.

1268
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:16,860
This slide shows proposed residential development in the North Facts Activity Center. This table is also provided in your briefing packet, but just to give a quick summary, and North Facts, the small area plan estimates 1,400 new residential units in the near term.

1269
02:00:16,860 --> 02:00:23,920
Today, there are 1,088 units currently in some phase of the land use process in the north-fax activity center.

1270
02:00:24,640 --> 02:00:31,640
In all activity centers, the small area plans estimate 4,759 units in the near-term.

1271
02:00:32,160 --> 02:00:38,340
Today, 2,753 units are in some phase of the land use process in all activity centers.

1272
02:00:39,200 --> 02:00:45,160
Outside of the activity centers, 3,22 units are in the land use pipeline.

1273
02:00:45,160 --> 02:00:51,940
And then the table on the bottom here shows each project in North Facts with the status and the number of units proposed.

1274
02:00:56,030 --> 02:01:01,530
Now, going back to the potential project for tonight's discussion, existing on the development site,

1275
02:01:02,090 --> 02:01:09,130
are two two story office buildings and 124 parking spaces on approximately 2.09 acres.

1276
02:01:09,130 --> 02:01:12,910
This is the concept plan.

1277
02:01:14,030 --> 02:01:19,070
The potential applicant proposes 29 townhouses and eight to over two units with a proposed

1278
02:01:19,070 --> 02:01:20,850
height maximum of four stories.

1279
02:01:22,450 --> 02:01:29,910
They proposed 2,750 square feet of retail on university drive, a new private street, a

1280
02:01:29,910 --> 02:01:35,670
wide-end 10-foot sidewalk on eating place, and an eight-foot sidewalk on university drive, and

1281
02:01:35,670 --> 02:01:38,430
an internal six-foot sidewalk leading to units.

1282
02:01:38,430 --> 02:01:50,850
The potential applicant proposes a 4,200 square foot linear park, 8,300 square feet of open space and an inner parcel connection to the south.

1283
02:01:52,490 --> 02:02:02,430
Here are our renderings of the potential proposal, so these are looking at the stacked townhouses of the two over Tuesdays.

1284
02:02:02,430 --> 02:02:11,150
And your more renderings on the left is a retail building and then on the right you're seeing the townhouses.

1285
02:02:14,060 --> 02:02:22,740
So city staff met with the applicant, the potential applicant and has provided preliminary feedback on the potential proposal.

1286
02:02:23,500 --> 02:02:27,700
This list was included in your briefing packet.

1287
02:02:30,670 --> 02:02:37,350
And on June 22nd, the Planning Commission held a pre-application briefing with the applicant

1288
02:02:37,350 --> 02:02:45,090
and gave the applicant feedback, a summary of this feedback has also been included in your

1289
02:02:45,090 --> 02:02:45,790
briefing packet.

1290
02:02:49,170 --> 02:02:54,830
Potential land use request for the proposal would be a rezoning from CR commercial retail to

1291
02:02:54,830 --> 02:02:59,870
see you commercial urban in the architectural control, a really district, a special use permit

1292
02:02:59,870 --> 02:03:05,110
for townhouses and multi-family, a general development plan and a major certificate of

1293
02:03:05,110 --> 02:03:07,190
appropriateness for architecture and landscaping.

1294
02:03:09,270 --> 02:03:16,370
So the next steps are a land use application submission, staff review, work sessions with

1295
02:03:16,370 --> 02:03:20,350
the planning commission, the BAR and city council, and then public hearings.

1296
02:03:22,470 --> 02:03:23,710
And that concludes my presentation.

1297
02:03:23,930 --> 02:03:26,050
I'm here to answer any questions that you have.

1298
02:03:26,270 --> 02:03:29,130
The potential applicant is also standing by for questions.

1299
02:03:30,110 --> 02:03:32,610
Thank you for the presentation, Councilmember Amis.

1300
02:03:33,750 --> 02:03:36,630
Thank you very much for the very brief presentation.

1301
02:03:37,490 --> 02:03:40,910
Just to quickly go over what I liked that I saw.

1302
02:03:41,350 --> 02:03:43,250
The sidewalk with I think are appropriate.

1303
02:03:43,710 --> 02:03:46,770
I think ten feet on Eden, eight feet on University.

1304
02:03:46,830 --> 02:03:48,250
I think that makes a lot of sense.

1305
02:03:48,670 --> 02:03:51,810
I do like the University Connection and Access from Chainbridge.

1306
02:03:52,290 --> 02:03:54,930
I actually, my understanding, based on what I saw on the plan,

1307
02:03:55,110 --> 02:03:58,190
the access point to the property from Eden is removed.

1308
02:03:58,190 --> 02:04:05,310
correct. I do like that element of it as well, taking that off. I also really, yes, right there.

1309
02:04:05,390 --> 02:04:11,250
Thank you. I also like the linear park and green space concepts. So I do like to see that you have a

1310
02:04:11,250 --> 02:04:16,190
good amount of green space proposed from this initial application. Just a few questions.

1311
02:04:17,070 --> 02:04:23,330
It might be a little too early by imagine in terms of storm water. If I recall correctly, this is kind of on a slope.

1312
02:04:23,330 --> 02:04:28,890
In terms of stormwater, are we looking at an underground tank as what's their sufficient or what would be

1313
02:04:28,890 --> 02:04:30,790
implemented for me? I guess I would be to the applicant.

1314
02:04:33,280 --> 02:04:34,240
Just early thoughts.

1315
02:04:40,080 --> 02:04:43,900
Thank you. Madam Mayor, members of the City Council, Bob Grant, with the law from a Walsh Colucci,

1316
02:04:44,300 --> 02:04:48,420
all the half of the applicant this evening. I'm joined by Greg Tremer from Network Realty Partners

1317
02:04:48,420 --> 02:04:53,560
and appreciate the opportunity to come before Council. And get feedback, answer questions, and hopefully

1318
02:04:53,560 --> 02:04:59,440
begin this process. Council Member Amas, you asked about stormwater management. We have not yet fully

1319
02:04:59,440 --> 02:04:59,980
designed at work.

1320
02:05:00,000 --> 02:05:06,360
We're still very early. This is the concept plan. This is really the extent of what we designed so far. But make

1321
02:05:06,360 --> 02:05:10,720
no mistake about it. There will be stormwater management facilities provided on site. What

1322
02:05:10,720 --> 02:05:16,240
we're anticipating is exactly what you described underground facilities, detention, stormwater

1323
02:05:16,240 --> 02:05:21,800
quantity, quality controls, things like that. It will be a significant benefit over what's

1324
02:05:21,800 --> 02:05:27,920
there today. This property was developed in the early 1970s and I think it's safe to say is

1325
02:05:27,920 --> 02:05:34,440
entirely lacking in terms of storm water controls. So that's one of the several benefits that the redevelopment of this property

1326
02:05:34,440 --> 02:05:36,240
will just inherently bring forward.

1327
02:05:37,520 --> 02:05:45,100
Thank you. My next question in terms of height, so what's currently there, I think I saw on the plan it was 28 feet if I'm correct.

1328
02:05:45,720 --> 02:05:49,560
And then you have proposed four stories. What's the gap there? What's the difference?

1329
02:05:49,560 --> 02:05:50,540
That's correct.

1330
02:05:50,660 --> 02:05:51,460
The two story buildings.

1331
02:05:51,640 --> 02:05:54,340
I think you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're about 25, 28,

1332
02:05:54,420 --> 02:05:55,040
30 feet.

1333
02:05:55,160 --> 02:05:57,280
The story, excuse me, feet high.

1334
02:05:57,700 --> 02:06:02,180
What we are proposing at this point is a maximum height of four stories or 60 feet.

1335
02:06:02,600 --> 02:06:08,560
The 60 feet would be the, uh, two over two units, the stacked townhouse units on the left side

1336
02:06:08,560 --> 02:06:11,960
of your screen, the west side of the site, fronting on chamberage road.

1337
02:06:12,260 --> 02:06:16,000
Um, those will be a little bit taller than the, the single family attached the townhouse units.

1338
02:06:16,000 --> 02:06:20,760
One of the reasons we did that was to kind of establish that frontage, establish that book

1339
02:06:20,760 --> 02:06:24,440
end of the site, create kind of a gateway as we're coming into the city by concentrating

1340
02:06:24,440 --> 02:06:28,720
that mass there, but that for story 60 foot height would be the maximum.

1341
02:06:29,300 --> 02:06:33,580
The townhouses would likely be a bit shorter than that, but again, we're early in the process

1342
02:06:33,580 --> 02:06:36,980
and so all of that information will be provided if and when it's missed forward.

1343
02:06:38,060 --> 02:06:41,960
And I know it's early in the process, so for example, you know, I'd be curious our economic

1344
02:06:41,960 --> 02:06:47,280
development director's thoughts, so what exactly is driving this as a vacancy rate, is it, I mean,

1345
02:06:47,380 --> 02:06:48,980
what are we, what are we looking at for this?

1346
02:06:49,240 --> 02:06:53,300
Yeah, and I'll ask great to chime in with a little bit more detail, but the reality is these buildings

1347
02:06:53,300 --> 02:07:00,240
are really approaching or at the end of their useful life. They're about 50 years old at this point and

1348
02:07:01,260 --> 02:07:06,080
they're deteriorating. And frankly, the costs of getting them back to where they need to be to

1349
02:07:06,080 --> 02:07:11,800
release these spaces are, it's approaching to the point where it's cost prohibitive. And so that's why

1350
02:07:11,800 --> 02:07:15,920
property owners in the position now, we're looking to the next phase, the next step for

1351
02:07:15,920 --> 02:07:16,500
this property.

1352
02:07:17,440 --> 02:07:20,920
And so what we've come forward with is what we think and what we hope council agrees

1353
02:07:20,920 --> 02:07:25,440
is a step in the right direction, something that's consistent with the small area plan

1354
02:07:25,440 --> 02:07:29,100
and continuing the progress of development here in Norfolk's.

1355
02:07:29,100 --> 02:07:30,320
Greg, do you want to add to that?

1356
02:07:30,720 --> 02:07:32,640
That's exactly right in terms of the condition of buildings.

1357
02:07:33,020 --> 02:07:36,880
And in terms of the product mix and the direction of the plan, we looked kind of holistically

1358
02:07:36,880 --> 02:07:37,980
in this broader market.

1359
02:07:38,300 --> 02:07:41,340
And we're really excited about kind of the canvas that's been painted already.

1360
02:07:41,340 --> 02:07:42,700
We have a senior housing building.

1361
02:07:42,800 --> 02:07:45,700
We have a rental apartment building coming out of the ground.

1362
02:07:46,140 --> 02:07:48,760
What we don't have is home ownership opportunities.

1363
02:07:49,780 --> 02:07:52,700
And in this small little plan, we fit a lot of,

1364
02:07:52,700 --> 02:07:53,660
we think great things.

1365
02:07:53,960 --> 02:07:55,100
There's the two over two units,

1366
02:07:55,340 --> 02:07:57,180
which will be the smaller, it's smaller so the units.

1367
02:07:57,540 --> 02:08:00,320
And then a mixture of 16 foot wide and 24 wide downs.

1368
02:08:00,940 --> 02:08:02,660
So in this plenty of three different types

1369
02:08:02,660 --> 02:08:03,900
of home ownership opportunities,

1370
02:08:04,360 --> 02:08:06,620
that will be the first kind of in this broader area.

1371
02:08:06,980 --> 02:08:08,800
And we think that all of that,

1372
02:08:08,800 --> 02:08:09,580
as an interactivity.

1373
02:08:09,920 --> 02:08:14,040
In addition to the two hotels that already exist brings a kind of a nice diversity of

1374
02:08:14,040 --> 02:08:17,400
a pedestrian activity and we'll kind of start to activate it as a whole, so we're really

1375
02:08:17,400 --> 02:08:18,100
excited about that.

1376
02:08:18,760 --> 02:08:19,100
Thank you.

1377
02:08:19,300 --> 02:08:23,840
My last question is related to the retail portion, and there's kind of two things built

1378
02:08:23,840 --> 02:08:24,380
into that.

1379
02:08:24,440 --> 02:08:25,260
One for the retail.

1380
02:08:25,400 --> 02:08:31,080
I mean, when you say retail, do you mean more commercial office space or do you more

1381
02:08:31,080 --> 02:08:34,260
so mean, for example, restaurant use, hit or something like that?

1382
02:08:34,980 --> 02:08:35,460
Just for clarification.

1383
02:08:35,560 --> 02:08:37,960
So our hope is that it's neighborhood serving retail.

1384
02:08:37,960 --> 02:08:48,740
We intentionally had it on the linear park because we like that interface between that activity in the park, interacting with the retail.

1385
02:08:49,280 --> 02:08:53,060
It's very, very, really to try and determine what will release in that space.

1386
02:08:53,280 --> 02:08:56,900
Our hope would be, though, it would be neighborhoods to every retail rather than commercial use.

1387
02:08:57,460 --> 02:09:03,960
Understood. And part of the reason I asked that is because it just felt a little odd to have that retail space fronting.

1388
02:09:03,960 --> 02:09:09,180
not fronting technically, but closer to the chain bridge roadside, I would think considering

1389
02:09:09,180 --> 02:09:13,060
you have an adjacent shopping center on the university drive portion, you might get more

1390
02:09:13,060 --> 02:09:17,160
consistency putting that on the university drive side. I wasn't sure what went to your

1391
02:09:17,160 --> 02:09:22,700
thought process on that. Yeah, so the retail actually is on the right side, east side of this side,

1392
02:09:22,840 --> 02:09:28,500
so that's the drive correct. And the reason for that, just so you're aware, and when we first

1393
02:09:28,500 --> 02:09:33,220
met with staff about this, they emphasized the importance of having that retail frontage there,

1394
02:09:33,220 --> 02:09:36,060
because that's what the small area of plant recommends. If you look at this site,

1395
02:09:36,920 --> 02:09:40,760
this site, the hotel site to the south, and even points to the north across eaten place,

1396
02:09:41,280 --> 02:09:45,760
it's envisioned in the small area of plant that that linear park has a retail frontage. And so

1397
02:09:45,760 --> 02:09:50,140
what you see here is the product of several conversations we had with staff early on

1398
02:09:50,140 --> 02:09:54,000
to advance that design. I am very happy to hear I was wrong about that, so thank you.

1399
02:09:55,380 --> 02:09:59,980
So it didn't say you were wrong for saying. I'll say it to myself. No, that's good to know.

1400
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:03,180
And that was it for my questions. Thank you.

1401
02:10:03,300 --> 02:10:04,000
Thank you.

1402
02:10:04,040 --> 02:10:05,500
Council member Quillin.

1403
02:10:08,000 --> 02:10:10,520
Thank you. How much commercial will be preserved?

1404
02:10:12,120 --> 02:10:15,300
So the existing office buildings are about 16,000 square feet.

1405
02:10:15,340 --> 02:10:24,220
A little over that council member Quillin. Those will be removed and replaced with the proposed retail that we have here, which is just over 2,700 square feet.

1406
02:10:27,110 --> 02:10:54,990
And then, how much room is there for, I'm looking at the renderings and I actually really like this plan a lot, I'll be honest with you, I really like this plan a lot, I like the retail on the side, but the renderings, is there a lot of room for changing the look to look less square and modern and like everything else I see it in everybody else's city.

1407
02:10:54,990 --> 02:10:55,990
that's being built?

1408
02:10:58,190 --> 02:11:00,230
And this is Bob and my first opportunity to work together.

1409
02:11:00,830 --> 02:11:02,630
And he said, you know, you don't really need

1410
02:11:02,630 --> 02:11:04,190
renderings at this point, it's this conceptual.

1411
02:11:04,370 --> 02:11:05,630
I said, let's put something in there

1412
02:11:05,630 --> 02:11:06,650
and facilitate a conversation.

1413
02:11:07,270 --> 02:11:09,310
So the answer is absolutely, and we want that feedback.

1414
02:11:09,570 --> 02:11:11,810
And we want this whole project to feel

1415
02:11:11,810 --> 02:11:13,570
like it's part of the fabric of the city Fairfax.

1416
02:11:14,170 --> 02:11:14,350
Great.

1417
02:11:14,550 --> 02:11:17,350
I really, I do like the set up, I like the green space.

1418
02:11:17,410 --> 02:11:18,870
I like where you have the retail.

1419
02:11:19,050 --> 02:11:20,890
I'd like to see a little, or the commercial.

1420
02:11:21,030 --> 02:11:22,750
I'd like to see a little bit more preservation

1421
02:11:22,750 --> 02:11:23,570
for commercial.

1422
02:11:23,570 --> 02:11:30,550
but I, the renderings and the look of the appearance, I think you could go a long way if it

1423
02:11:30,550 --> 02:11:35,150
really matches our community well and keeps to the character. So thank you, Greg. Thank you.

1424
02:11:36,110 --> 02:11:42,850
Council member Peterson. Yeah, I've got a per staff. A couple of questions here. Just on page one

1425
02:11:44,370 --> 02:11:50,630
and just a couple of quick math questions for you on the far right bottom activity centers plus

1426
02:11:50,630 --> 02:11:58,670
side of number units and there's you drop down you go to a total of 3,000, 22. What is that number?

1427
02:12:01,180 --> 02:12:04,700
Okay, sorry. Can you repeat your question? I was looking at my presentation out the staff before.

1428
02:12:05,020 --> 02:12:11,520
That's okay. So I'm going to the staff report. Yes. And I'm going down to

1429
02:12:13,360 --> 02:12:18,660
bottom right corner of page one. Okay. And so you've got a couple tables here.

1430
02:12:21,120 --> 02:12:27,560
that give you the tally of what are known and what you're just benchmark estimates, but I'll

1431
02:12:27,560 --> 02:12:31,300
circle back to them in the very far right, and they have numbers for the first two for

1432
02:12:31,300 --> 02:12:37,060
north fax, then activity centers plus combined. The last one is activity centers plus outside

1433
02:12:37,560 --> 02:12:43,180
of, and it's blank, but if you drop down to the very bottom, it's 3,022. What does that mean?

1434
02:12:43,180 --> 02:12:59,890
Yeah, that's all like one table, so that means the projects that are in a land use process right now including activities out centers and those outside of activities centers.

1435
02:13:01,570 --> 02:13:09,290
Those are in a land use process. How do you reconcile that with the first two boxes one for north fax and one for activity centers combined?

1436
02:13:09,290 --> 02:13:15,130
And the north-axe one has 1,400, and the smaller airplane benchmark estimate for activity

1437
02:13:15,130 --> 02:13:16,570
centers is 4,700.

1438
02:13:17,830 --> 02:13:23,410
And Ms. Schwagger, if you could pull up that slide as well, I think that might be helpful.

1439
02:13:23,830 --> 02:13:31,470
So the 1,400 units, Council Member Peterson, is the benchmark estimate for the north-faxe

1440
02:13:31,470 --> 02:13:37,110
small area plan, and so that's what's identified in the plan in terms of benchmark

1441
02:13:37,110 --> 02:13:46,930
estimate over the near-term development in north fax. So there is not a benchmark estimate

1442
02:13:46,930 --> 02:13:54,210
for areas outside of activity centers. So in that final table on the far right of this slide,

1443
02:13:54,410 --> 02:14:02,670
you don't see a benchmark estimate. So what's included there is in total number of residential units

1444
02:14:02,670 --> 02:14:09,490
at some place within the development review process that could be considered by City Council.

1445
02:14:09,710 --> 02:14:18,150
At some point in time, if those proposals or projects proceed, those are the figures associated with that.

1446
02:14:18,370 --> 02:14:25,450
So under construction, approved under review and in a pre-application phase.

1447
02:14:25,810 --> 02:14:31,490
And so those are the units that are somewhere in the development review process with the city.

1448
02:14:32,890 --> 02:14:39,530
That's the 32,000 22. Yes, sir. All right, so just to check my math. So if you look at

1449
02:14:40,670 --> 02:14:46,070
Current population and city of Fairfax, which is 26,000 340 or something like that

1450
02:14:46,850 --> 02:14:53,030
In you add 47 to it. That's 4,700. That's not in the door to an 18% increase

1451
02:14:53,030 --> 02:14:54,670
yet another

1452
02:14:55,930 --> 02:14:59,730
3,000 to it. It's like a 29% increase over base

1453
02:15:01,360 --> 02:15:11,520
So, just adding the numbers up, again, just a math thing, we have a current population. I'm trying to get a sense of how much that current population expands.

1454
02:15:11,980 --> 02:15:14,280
I'll take your word for it, council member, please.

1455
02:15:14,740 --> 02:15:20,200
I blame it on the iPhone, wrong, okay, and my thumbs, which I have too many of right now.

1456
02:15:20,680 --> 02:15:28,380
All right, so there's that, just then, you said near term, what does that mean?

1457
02:15:28,380 --> 02:15:49,140
So the small area plans identify a 10 to 15 year near-term development window, and so as shown in those plans, there's a full illustrative buildout of what redevelopment in those areas, which are designated redevelopment areas in the city, might look like.

1458
02:15:49,140 --> 02:15:56,040
as those plans were to be being developed based upon market conditions, what is included is what

1459
02:15:57,060 --> 02:16:05,580
is estimated redevelopment activity could result in over that 10 to 15 year period, so for

1460
02:16:05,580 --> 02:16:09,140
North Facts, it was 1400 units.

1461
02:16:09,860 --> 02:16:15,720
Great, but so we've talked about this, so you'll correct me if I don't exactly get it right,

1462
02:16:15,720 --> 02:16:22,820
But those benchmark estimates are what market conditions could result in.

1463
02:16:23,020 --> 02:16:26,860
That is not however a public policy goal that's been adopted by the city.

1464
02:16:27,240 --> 02:16:28,160
That is correct.

1465
02:16:28,380 --> 02:16:31,680
And that's a very critical point for what a recognized site.

1466
02:16:31,840 --> 02:16:35,800
I think we need to be cautious about any presentation.

1467
02:16:36,180 --> 02:16:40,340
And I'm not pointing fingers at this one that might suggest that we are trying to attain

1468
02:16:40,340 --> 02:16:43,500
these particular goals that is not the case.

1469
02:16:43,680 --> 02:16:44,940
We're simply tracking metrics.

1470
02:16:44,940 --> 02:16:51,160
But I'm curious also, I don't see our economic development director here although maybe she's hiding somewhere.

1471
02:16:53,060 --> 02:16:58,040
But we have a metric here, which is housing units.

1472
02:16:58,740 --> 02:17:07,760
Are we also estimating commercial expansion market potential in for that matter retail?

1473
02:17:08,100 --> 02:17:12,440
And I don't even talk about industrial, but let's just talk about commercial and retail over the same period.

1474
02:17:12,440 --> 02:17:14,520
But I don't see those benchmarks here.

1475
02:17:15,400 --> 02:17:21,140
We are, and that's information that we can provide to City Council moving forward.

1476
02:17:21,240 --> 02:17:26,620
I think this table is put together in response to a previous request so we inserted it in

1477
02:17:26,620 --> 02:17:31,220
this presentation, but we can add additional information regarding commercial square footage

1478
02:17:31,220 --> 02:17:32,600
as well.

1479
02:17:33,380 --> 02:17:37,960
Well, I mean, it gets to a strategic question, I think, for the council in the city, as it

1480
02:17:37,960 --> 02:17:46,200
is trying to address public interest and that is the goal that, um, either we have or we've

1481
02:17:46,200 --> 02:17:54,360
certainly discussed of expanding, um, the presence of commercial redevelopment and or development

1482
02:17:54,360 --> 02:18:01,780
in the city. And we don't have parallel numbers here to tell us what those numbers look like next

1483
02:18:01,780 --> 02:18:06,860
to residential numbers. So the conversation is a little bit one-sided. We're just talking

1484
02:18:06,860 --> 02:18:11,740
residential. We're not talking commercial here. This is a case where we're reducing the

1485
02:18:11,740 --> 02:18:17,480
and so there is certainly an interest in expanding commercial. And in this case we're

1486
02:18:17,480 --> 02:18:24,460
actually reducing it from 16,000 to 2700 square feet. I think that's a really big hit on a

1487
02:18:24,460 --> 02:18:31,240
commercial square footage. And again our economic development director is not here but she will

1488
02:18:31,240 --> 02:18:36,440
I'm sure be listening in on this. It's my understanding that just across the street. It

1489
02:18:36,440 --> 02:18:43,100
Right view, one of the objectives there to address this very problem is to add 7,000 square

1490
02:18:43,100 --> 02:18:45,800
feet at least of commercial there.

1491
02:18:46,180 --> 02:18:54,980
So I guess my question is if we are trying to expand commercial in this area, why aren't

1492
02:18:54,980 --> 02:19:00,920
we focusing the approach on this particular site in a manner that's consistent with that?

1493
02:19:01,000 --> 02:19:03,980
Because that would seem to be consistent with the city's goals.

1494
02:19:07,620 --> 02:19:12,420
I'll defer to the applicant or the potential applicant regarding this potential site.

1495
02:19:12,820 --> 02:19:12,840
Sure.

1496
02:19:13,240 --> 02:19:13,520
Thanks.

1497
02:19:13,520 --> 02:19:13,760
Thanks.

1498
02:19:13,860 --> 02:19:14,340
Thanks, Mr. Harden.

1499
02:19:14,420 --> 02:19:15,920
Thanks, Council Member Petersen, for the question.

1500
02:19:16,040 --> 02:19:17,020
I think it's a good one, right?

1501
02:19:18,000 --> 02:19:23,640
This site has been a commercial use for the last 50 years, so years, for the reasons I described

1502
02:19:23,640 --> 02:19:30,560
the existing facilities on the site, the buildings themselves are just, they're at the end of their

1503
02:19:30,560 --> 02:19:35,700
life span and so the question that becomes what's next and so when we looked at this property

1504
02:19:35,700 --> 02:19:39,700
working with the owner, I'm trying to figure out what made the best sense for North

1505
02:19:39,700 --> 02:19:43,580
Fast, what made the best sense for the city as Greg was mentioning earlier, we thought

1506
02:19:43,580 --> 02:19:47,040
that introducing opportunities for homeownership here were appropriate.

1507
02:19:48,000 --> 02:19:52,160
Now I acknowledge that there will be a reduction in the amount of commercial space,

1508
02:19:52,240 --> 02:19:56,400
certainly compared to what's there today. We are bringing forward what I do believe is a

1509
02:19:56,400 --> 02:19:59,980
meaningful number 2700 square feet. But I think looking at the big-

1510
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:11,000
Speaker, picture here. What these future residents will do is support the existing commercial uses that are already in the area. Shopping centers down the street, the future growth, yet to come in north fax.

1511
02:20:11,340 --> 02:20:20,980
And so I do think that this application is proposal which is a relatively small piece of north fax and the bigger picture does have a role to play.

1512
02:20:21,380 --> 02:20:27,020
We've got a botanist coming online right now. It's under construction. I think that's bringing about 5000 square feet.

1513
02:20:27,020 --> 02:20:41,280
I forget if you mentioned that or not Councilmember Petersen but looking at this site and working through this development program we felt that this was the highest in the best use for it and certainly something that can be a valuable part of the overall effects community.

1514
02:20:42,500 --> 02:20:55,760
So I think it would be great to maybe have an expanded conversation that I would like it possible to have the benefit of our economic development director to be a part of to understand the commercial.

1515
02:20:57,600 --> 02:21:03,480
status, mix, and potential goals in that area, because right across the street, there is, of course,

1516
02:21:03,700 --> 02:21:07,100
quite substantial commercial redevelopment going on.

1517
02:21:07,160 --> 02:21:10,440
And I don't think the issue here is trying to make use of the 50 year old buildings.

1518
02:21:10,460 --> 02:21:14,800
I think it's pretty clear that this is a redevelopment scenario under any scenario.

1519
02:21:15,040 --> 02:21:18,920
Here, this taking place, but I think the question is whether it's really the right

1520
02:21:18,920 --> 02:21:23,500
to a time in place to be knock and out so much commercial, given these circumstances.

1521
02:21:23,500 --> 02:21:27,880
And I certainly like to understand that more clearly.

1522
02:21:28,740 --> 02:21:35,760
The other thing that factors into that is in terms of the type of commercial

1523
02:21:35,760 --> 02:21:43,800
development that is consistent with future market conditions and could actually

1524
02:21:43,800 --> 02:21:50,360
those conditions could be shaped a bit by proactive things that we might do here.

1525
02:21:50,360 --> 02:21:54,630
My understanding for my economic development director is that

1526
02:21:55,960 --> 02:21:59,970
where the city shines and could shine is smaller scale

1527
02:22:01,220 --> 02:22:05,380
commercial sites that would be of interest to firms

1528
02:22:05,380 --> 02:22:11,460
That don't want to go into the really big office building developments that are outside of the city

1529
02:22:11,460 --> 02:22:13,560
but are looking for

1530
02:22:14,260 --> 02:22:18,080
smaller scale more and by definition more affordable

1531
02:22:18,660 --> 02:22:25,160
also that are monetized, and it creates a set of conditions that those firms are looking for.

1532
02:22:25,340 --> 02:22:32,080
And we have some competitive advantages there, and this would be a case where, you know, this is a site that can potentially be acting on them.

1533
02:22:32,380 --> 02:22:44,520
I'm not sure how much of the formulation of this proposal has involved conversations around economic development and commercial development in the city, but to me that's kind of the white elephant here.

1534
02:22:44,520 --> 02:22:56,740
I appreciate what you've brought forward, but I do want to acknowledge that we have kind of a big picture issue here for the city and this particular location that I would feel

1535
02:22:57,320 --> 02:23:03,700
more comfortable if we had a chance to unpack that a little bit here as we decide, but what works best here.

1536
02:23:04,260 --> 02:23:04,530
Thank you.

1537
02:23:05,080 --> 02:23:05,740
Thank you.

1538
02:23:06,040 --> 02:23:07,020
Councillor member Hardie Chandler.

1539
02:23:11,910 --> 02:23:12,490
Thank you.

1540
02:23:15,150 --> 02:23:41,550
I really appreciate slide four because I think as I mentioned in a previous meeting sometimes we look at projects individually and we don't consider what else is going on in the area so I think that we did ask for particularly on the residential side what else is going on in where this fall so in north fax is this proposal included in the pre application number that's in the upper left side okay.

1541
02:23:41,550 --> 02:23:50,270
Thank you. The other question that I had was, for retail you mentioned neighborhood serving.

1542
02:23:50,750 --> 02:23:54,350
What does that mean specifically? Can you break down with that means for me?

1543
02:23:54,670 --> 02:24:01,650
Sure, sure. I think my shop there, it's like small, small boutiques, perhaps a coffee shop, a cafe, a small restaurant.

1544
02:24:02,270 --> 02:24:07,270
Things that could, as I was mentioning before, you know, be used by the future residents here.

1545
02:24:07,270 --> 02:24:09,550
And so I'm sure Greg would agree with me.

1546
02:24:09,750 --> 02:24:13,330
It's still, again, we're on step one of 100 of this process.

1547
02:24:14,050 --> 02:24:15,570
It's still relatively early.

1548
02:24:16,090 --> 02:24:19,210
And the guys we move forward hopefully that vision gets fleshed out a little bit more.

1549
02:24:19,590 --> 02:24:24,510
At this point, anyway, we're hoping to maintain as much flexibility as we can to expand the

1550
02:24:24,510 --> 02:24:25,610
universe of potential uses.

1551
02:24:25,810 --> 02:24:29,610
But what we're thinking is most likely as something like I described as a small restaurant

1552
02:24:29,610 --> 02:24:30,750
cafe store.

1553
02:24:31,130 --> 02:24:31,190
Something like that.

1554
02:24:31,190 --> 02:24:31,570
Thank you.

1555
02:24:31,610 --> 02:24:33,270
I just wanted to understand the category.

1556
02:24:34,250 --> 02:24:37,250
I did read in the report where you were talking about the buildings being at the

1557
02:24:37,250 --> 02:24:42,310
of their life so can you talk a little bit about the current tenants and so it's at the end

1558
02:24:42,310 --> 02:24:46,390
of this life something is going to have to happen right these buildings are not sustainable

1559
02:24:46,390 --> 02:24:59,710
at all some choices going to have to be made so for the current tenants I guess a couple of

1560
02:24:59,710 --> 02:24:59,870
out.

1561
02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:05,600
What might happen with them in terms of a plan? And also what is the current vacancy of bills of buildings?

1562
02:25:06,620 --> 02:25:14,160
Yeah, the current vacancies about 40% and that's going to grow. The buildings are set to go entirely vacant

1563
02:25:14,160 --> 02:25:21,240
over the next 18 months. The buildings are structurally, you know, I don't want to say, unsound, but in poor condition,

1564
02:25:21,840 --> 02:25:28,080
and no longer makes sense to continue reinvest them. So, in any scenario, those buildings will be closed here in the next 18 to 24 months.

1565
02:25:29,660 --> 02:25:36,540
And you mentioned, if I heard you correctly in another response, you mentioned this as being

1566
02:25:36,540 --> 02:25:41,360
different from some of the other projects that you're involved in, is that what went into

1567
02:25:41,360 --> 02:25:49,060
the decision for this particular kind of proposal. Because I think there was a mention of rental

1568
02:25:49,060 --> 02:25:53,420
properties and other properties. So was this to diversify?

1569
02:25:54,120 --> 02:25:59,160
Well, in terms of this particular planning, it was diversifying the housing opportunities in

1570
02:25:59,160 --> 02:26:03,240
this sub-market right now, right now there's a rental product coming up and there's the

1571
02:26:03,240 --> 02:26:08,380
senior housing and so forth and so we saw a distinct opportunity specifically in town

1572
02:26:08,380 --> 02:26:12,960
us is that are smaller, more attainable, the two are reduced will be even a lower price

1573
02:26:12,960 --> 02:26:13,220
point.

1574
02:26:13,340 --> 02:26:16,220
So we felt like that hit a real sweet spot that wasn't an opportunity there.

1575
02:26:16,620 --> 02:26:18,700
So having a differentiated product was very interesting.

1576
02:26:18,700 --> 02:26:23,580
The other thing that's about the site that is important to note is it's a small site.

1577
02:26:24,120 --> 02:26:25,580
It's just over two acres.

1578
02:26:26,800 --> 02:26:31,880
With the hotel to the south, there's no real opportunity to grow that to do a more substantial project.

1579
02:26:32,740 --> 02:26:36,020
And so this was an opportunity to kind of pack a lot into a small bag.

1580
02:26:36,940 --> 02:26:38,720
So we've checked a lot of boxes.

1581
02:26:39,100 --> 02:26:39,740
Thank you.

1582
02:26:40,140 --> 02:26:41,420
It's my question for now.

1583
02:26:41,880 --> 02:26:42,760
Thank you.

1584
02:26:43,000 --> 02:26:44,140
Council Member Hall.

1585
02:26:46,180 --> 02:26:47,360
Sorry, can you give me another minute, please?

1586
02:26:47,820 --> 02:26:47,980
Thanks.

1587
02:26:51,300 --> 02:27:03,780
I certainly do overall like some aspects of this project, the layout of overall the sidewalks and side access.

1588
02:27:04,560 --> 02:27:15,780
I will say that the smaller plant envisions this site being all commercial, understanding that there might be room for compromise here,

1589
02:27:15,780 --> 02:27:24,040
But I would like to see ideally at least half the commercial space is there, replaced, and

1590
02:27:24,040 --> 02:27:27,680
there are things that could be done in terms of perhaps structured parking.

1591
02:27:28,500 --> 02:27:33,500
We see another sites in the city where there's a small office going with a small parking

1592
02:27:33,500 --> 02:27:36,120
garage or something like that.

1593
02:27:36,120 --> 02:27:44,040
And in addition to, you know, the retail front edge is certainly needed there, you know,

1594
02:27:44,100 --> 02:27:45,360
at the absolute minimum.

1595
02:27:46,180 --> 02:27:52,560
But the smaller airplane envisions that fronting onto the linear park, which I think is perhaps

1596
02:27:52,560 --> 02:27:57,260
maybe just a matter of moving that sidewalk around to the other side and having it front

1597
02:27:57,260 --> 02:27:59,200
onto that sidewalk on that side.

1598
02:27:59,200 --> 02:28:16,160
But, yeah, again, more commercial space, office and or retail, but still certainly I think that having some for sale units here adds some diversity to the housing stock in this part of North Facts.

1599
02:28:17,200 --> 02:28:18,400
Thank you.

1600
02:28:18,400 --> 02:28:19,580
Councillor Member Hall?

1601
02:28:19,820 --> 02:28:24,060
Thank you. Sorry. I forgot my reading glasses. I'm having a zoom in and go over to the screen.

1602
02:28:24,060 --> 02:28:28,100
sucks getting old. I have a couple, I don't know if there are

1603
02:28:28,100 --> 02:28:33,140
cleric questions or not, but back to slide for, I know we're spending a lot of time

1604
02:28:33,140 --> 02:28:40,180
on that. The benchmark estimates of 1,400 for North Facts and 4,700 for the

1605
02:28:40,180 --> 02:28:47,620
activity centers combined. That equates to 6,100 units, correct? If you're adding those two

1606
02:28:47,620 --> 02:28:51,040
together or is the 4,700 inclusive of the 4?

1607
02:28:52,060 --> 02:28:58,900
inclusive. Okay. 4700 total among all of the activities. Okay. So sorry we're going to have to

1608
02:28:58,900 --> 02:29:07,160
do math real quick. Because I did it the other way. So what I found, sorry, wrong buttons.

1609
02:29:09,540 --> 02:29:09,880
Okay.

1610
02:29:22,630 --> 02:29:29,930
So what I found with a quick search was that in 2024, the total dwelling units in the city

1611
02:29:29,930 --> 02:29:32,610
was 10,467.

1612
02:29:34,390 --> 02:29:49,630
So, these proposed residential development plans to add 4700 units, which is 45% of what we currently have available for dwelling units.

1613
02:29:49,630 --> 02:29:59,970
So we are adding an extraordinary amount in this overall proposal, not your specific proposal.

1614
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:10,000
We'd be clear on that. And then of the 914 units that are currently under construction, or am I doing that wrong?

1615
02:30:10,180 --> 02:30:15,200
It should be 430 under construction, or is it 484 total under construction?

1616
02:30:16,720 --> 02:30:22,500
484 total under construction among all four of the activity centers.

1617
02:30:22,500 --> 02:30:35,380
So then 484 divided by 467 gets me to let's call it about 5% so there is 5% of the total

1618
02:30:35,380 --> 02:30:40,500
dwelling units in 2024 that is currently under construction in the city.

1619
02:30:41,500 --> 02:30:43,080
I trust your math.

1620
02:30:43,340 --> 02:30:45,920
I didn't at first but then I went back into the right way.

1621
02:30:47,100 --> 02:30:51,620
Okay, so what I'm hearing is that we're going to be adding based upon this slide.

1622
02:30:51,620 --> 02:30:55,100
45% of our existing housing stock,

1623
02:30:55,300 --> 02:30:58,100
we're going to be adding an additional 45% of that total

1624
02:30:58,600 --> 02:31:00,900
based on what we have on this slide.

1625
02:31:01,300 --> 02:31:03,500
So I think those are really important numbers.

1626
02:31:05,240 --> 02:31:06,860
Now, to your specific proposal,

1627
02:31:06,860 --> 02:31:08,880
and this might be again, a clearer question first.

1628
02:31:09,500 --> 02:31:10,900
But on page 6,

1629
02:31:12,940 --> 02:31:15,680
the residents in that is right near this,

1630
02:31:15,680 --> 02:31:17,840
I believe that is a four-story building,

1631
02:31:18,560 --> 02:31:21,840
which is roughly 48 feet tall.

1632
02:31:22,720 --> 02:31:24,720
I believe it's five I'm going by man.

1633
02:31:24,860 --> 02:31:27,840
Is I googled it, but it said four, but is it five?

1634
02:31:28,640 --> 02:31:29,070
I think so.

1635
02:31:29,840 --> 02:31:33,380
Okay, so five feet would be roughly 60 feet tall.

1636
02:31:34,100 --> 02:31:40,700
Okay, so you're building them for that Frenchage there is going to be similar to the residents in.

1637
02:31:41,240 --> 02:31:44,880
Okay, I will say that makes me feel a little better but still not great.

1638
02:31:44,880 --> 02:31:50,320
So I actually live across the street and eat in place, if you go across and down, I'm in that neighborhood there.

1639
02:31:50,700 --> 02:31:56,720
So this is very, very close to home for me. You might be surprised, based upon my other comments,

1640
02:31:56,880 --> 02:32:02,560
along the way, that I actually do like this. I do have some suggestions, though.

1641
02:32:03,500 --> 02:32:06,800
I do feel even though the residents in apparently is taller than I thought,

1642
02:32:07,520 --> 02:32:13,120
I do feel personally that townhouses where these stackable units are would make more sense.

1643
02:32:13,120 --> 02:32:17,260
I think it would keep the height a little bit lower there as you're driving a long chamberage road.

1644
02:32:17,940 --> 02:32:24,540
And then maybe you could potentially repurpose some of the interior townhomes to be the stackable units,

1645
02:32:24,580 --> 02:32:27,880
that way you have that extra height, but it's not looming over the street there.

1646
02:32:28,860 --> 02:32:33,580
I know a cross the street from there is the assembly townhomes. I believe, again, someone can correct me.

1647
02:32:33,720 --> 02:32:39,220
I think there are three stories tall. So, might give a little bit more balance to what's there.

1648
02:32:39,880 --> 02:32:47,260
I like the green space, I cannot wait until those connections on that service rotor closed off.

1649
02:32:47,600 --> 02:32:49,360
So this gets us there a little bit faster.

1650
02:32:50,360 --> 02:32:54,240
I'm very happy to see the 10-foot sidewalk on Eaton, the 8-foot sidewalk on University.

1651
02:32:56,760 --> 02:32:59,880
The parking, that is available, the 88 parking spaces.

1652
02:33:01,660 --> 02:33:08,300
Again, my old eyes are filling me today, but it looks like there are some guest parking spots.

1653
02:33:08,300 --> 02:33:12,540
Amazon drop off deliveries, so kind of spots available in addition to what's at the

1654
02:33:12,540 --> 02:33:13,780
residences themselves.

1655
02:33:13,960 --> 02:33:14,280
Correct.

1656
02:33:14,660 --> 02:33:18,120
So the surface parking spaces are really that could be used for both.

1657
02:33:18,380 --> 02:33:21,640
So the ones on the left side, so the west side of the site adjacent to the

1658
02:33:21,640 --> 02:33:22,320
stacked townhouses.

1659
02:33:22,740 --> 02:33:27,160
I think there's eight or nine spaces there, but some of those would be kind of dedicated

1660
02:33:27,760 --> 02:33:29,160
to the stacked townhouses.

1661
02:33:29,160 --> 02:33:31,500
The stacked townhouses will have one car garages.

1662
02:33:32,080 --> 02:33:35,640
And so the rest of the parking would be provided in that surface parking area on the left.

1663
02:33:35,640 --> 02:33:40,640
The surface parking area on the right, primarily would be devoted to the retail, the commercial

1664
02:33:40,640 --> 02:33:46,100
uses, but after hours in the evenings and weekends when that space is maybe not functioning,

1665
02:33:47,040 --> 02:33:51,320
those would be theoretically available for guests, visitors, things like that.

1666
02:33:52,440 --> 02:33:56,080
While I have the opportunity to speak with the accounts member hall just real briefly,

1667
02:33:56,520 --> 02:34:00,880
one of the reasons we provided that open space area on the south part of the screen here

1668
02:34:01,200 --> 02:34:03,960
was to serve as a buffer between those units and the residents.

1669
02:34:03,960 --> 02:34:08,720
and it's about 8,000 square feet give or take and we thought it was the right move to provide

1670
02:34:08,720 --> 02:34:13,560
a little bit of a buffer there but I appreciate your suggestions about potentially looking at

1671
02:34:13,560 --> 02:34:16,540
shifting things around a little bit. We'll look at that. I just didn't want to miss that.

1672
02:34:16,760 --> 02:34:20,660
Okay, no, I appreciate that. And I do also appreciate the buffer and I'm sure people that live there

1673
02:34:20,660 --> 02:34:25,640
will also appreciate it. These are all going to be for sale units, correct?

1674
02:34:26,680 --> 02:34:32,020
Okay, and based upon the number that you're putting in 6% of them will be affordable?

1675
02:34:32,840 --> 02:34:37,300
I believe for the townhouses, it's 10%, Mr. Harden's notting is head to 10%.

1676
02:34:37,300 --> 02:34:39,000
6% would apply to multi-family.

1677
02:34:40,060 --> 02:34:42,920
Okay, I wasn't sure if the combination of the townhouses and the...

1678
02:34:42,920 --> 02:34:43,820
And it would be split.

1679
02:34:44,140 --> 02:34:52,960
So 10% on the townhouse and on the two over two is a stack to those would be multi-family per zoning

1680
02:34:52,960 --> 02:34:55,100
and so that would be 6%.

1681
02:34:55,100 --> 02:34:55,300
Okay.

1682
02:34:55,380 --> 02:34:58,360
So I think it's three or four?

1683
02:34:58,360 --> 02:34:59,060
Three or four?

1684
02:34:59,120 --> 02:34:59,720
Three or four?

1685
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:10,040
Okay. And I don't mean to be naive about the two over two units, but when it says eight to over two, does that mean 16 units total, or that means eight units?

1686
02:35:10,300 --> 02:35:11,120
Like four.

1687
02:35:11,240 --> 02:35:12,020
Eight total.

1688
02:35:12,480 --> 02:35:12,840
Okay.

1689
02:35:13,960 --> 02:35:14,160
Okay.

1690
02:35:15,080 --> 02:35:20,440
I'm happy to see the dwelling units per acre at a reasonable 17.7 in my opinion.

1691
02:35:22,120 --> 02:35:28,760
The private street you're referring to is this, this, the trash and all of those things would be handled entirely by the complex itself.

1692
02:35:29,580 --> 02:35:36,080
because their townhouses right so they don't, so they do get city services. Correct.

1693
02:35:36,160 --> 02:35:41,500
The townhouses would get city services. Yeah. But the stacked units would not. That's

1694
02:35:41,500 --> 02:35:48,300
correct. I don't know how that's going to work. Similar situation in Mt. Vineyard at

1695
02:35:48,300 --> 02:35:52,940
the corner of Oak and Main Street has some are set up townhouses and two of her

1696
02:35:52,940 --> 02:35:56,960
and condominiums, and that development, so it is split.

1697
02:35:57,860 --> 02:36:01,860
Okay, different color trash cans on different, yeah, so I think it is.

1698
02:36:01,860 --> 02:36:05,700
Okay, I was going to imagine fighting over some dumpsters, maybe not.

1699
02:36:06,940 --> 02:36:09,080
And again, I know this is step one of 100.

1700
02:36:09,940 --> 02:36:16,740
I do think, again, I live right near here, what I think we are lacking is, like you said, a cafe style,

1701
02:36:17,200 --> 02:36:22,060
place, a place that does sandwiches, a place that does a nice lunch, you can get some

1702
02:36:22,060 --> 02:36:28,020
for dinner take out. I love coffee shops, but when they don't serve sufficient food, we have

1703
02:36:28,020 --> 02:36:33,000
enough coffee shops right now. So again, I know that that's in the weeds, but I live here.

1704
02:36:33,080 --> 02:36:39,840
I have a vested interest in seeing something like that succeed. But I have to say I am pleasantly

1705
02:36:39,840 --> 02:36:43,260
surprised, and I'm sure those that are watching at home are like, wow, she's actually supporting

1706
02:36:43,260 --> 02:36:49,700
something, right? And I am, again, I would like to see maybe the shift of the stackable over to the

1707
02:36:49,700 --> 02:36:53,000
back, but I think there's a lot of really good things here.

1708
02:36:53,840 --> 02:37:00,960
You did mention that the current tenants were 40%, 40% vacant right now, and expected to transition

1709
02:37:00,960 --> 02:37:06,060
out in the next 18 months, is that simply because the owner of the building knows he wants

1710
02:37:06,060 --> 02:37:08,920
to do, he or she wants to do something and is not renewing leases?

1711
02:37:12,030 --> 02:37:17,910
The value of the lease is far below the cost of fixed building up to the state where we

1712
02:37:17,910 --> 02:37:20,930
to make an economic sense and any longer.

1713
02:37:21,050 --> 02:37:22,410
Okay, and what is currently in there?

1714
02:37:22,550 --> 02:37:23,970
Like medical space.

1715
02:37:24,050 --> 02:37:27,830
It's about third medical and about two thirds of office.

1716
02:37:28,610 --> 02:37:28,630
Okay.

1717
02:37:28,630 --> 02:37:31,610
It kind of local, small office, kind of users.

1718
02:37:32,390 --> 02:37:32,670
Okay.

1719
02:37:33,450 --> 02:37:35,630
Do we know if we anticipate the people

1720
02:37:35,630 --> 02:37:38,170
that are there currently wanting to remain in the city?

1721
02:37:38,270 --> 02:37:39,550
Are there options for them?

1722
02:37:39,650 --> 02:37:41,850
Or is that just they're likely gone?

1723
02:37:41,990 --> 02:37:44,770
Yeah, I think, and the owners not with us this evening,

1724
02:37:44,950 --> 02:37:46,610
but we've had conversations with them.

1725
02:37:46,610 --> 02:37:51,830
I think we would be absolutely very open to working with economic development and facilitating

1726
02:37:51,830 --> 02:37:54,410
relocation in the city of that, if that is a possibility.

1727
02:37:55,450 --> 02:37:59,250
The ownership group that owns this, this these buildings say about it for quite a long time.

1728
02:37:59,970 --> 02:38:05,390
And so, you know, they have, they very much want to do right by their attendance as they move on as they move out.

1729
02:38:05,610 --> 02:38:09,610
And so, that's something that we're working through throughout this process and beyond.

1730
02:38:10,450 --> 02:38:16,150
One more thing, while I have the microphone, and I'd be remit with the risk of snatching to feed from the jails of victory here.

1731
02:38:16,150 --> 02:38:23,330
It's basically mentioned on chambered road here just to be very clear what we did there is we took

1732
02:38:23,330 --> 02:38:28,130
What's in the city's plans right now for the intersection improvements at eating place in the university

1733
02:38:28,130 --> 02:38:33,470
We kind of overlaid that what that's going to look like in the future just to be very clear

1734
02:38:33,470 --> 02:38:37,790
Okay, so not a pocket park there correct this that's really for a luxury of purposes

1735
02:38:37,790 --> 02:38:42,070
That's going to be done in the future when the intersection improvement project goes forward

1736
02:38:42,070 --> 02:38:47,290
and so what we did is we just simply overlaid the city's plans onto these drawings to show

1737
02:38:47,290 --> 02:38:50,030
what it will look like in the future when it's all said and done.

1738
02:38:50,470 --> 02:38:52,430
I appreciate your honesty and transparency on that one.

1739
02:38:52,470 --> 02:38:55,250
The other spaces on the site will take care of those.

1740
02:38:55,630 --> 02:38:56,150
Okay, great.

1741
02:38:56,190 --> 02:38:57,470
Thank you very much.

1742
02:38:58,690 --> 02:38:58,810
Thank you.

1743
02:38:58,830 --> 02:38:59,830
Councilmember Peterson?

1744
02:39:01,570 --> 02:39:08,450
I was wrong on my math and Councilmember Hall was kind enough to recut the numbers and I just

1745
02:39:08,450 --> 02:39:18,130
wanted to reinforce that the 45% growth in households over 10, 15 years, but let's call

1746
02:39:18,130 --> 02:39:24,010
it 10 years, is more than four times, it's four and a half times the rate of household

1747
02:39:24,010 --> 02:39:28,370
growth that occurred in the last, in the period of 20, 20, 20, 20, 25 in the city.

1748
02:39:29,330 --> 02:39:36,750
So this just, again, this is not an issue with this particular proposal, but it is a general

1749
02:39:36,750 --> 02:39:42,490
question and concern about the overall volume and rate of growth for residential units

1750
02:39:42,490 --> 02:39:45,630
because it far surpasses both in rate and volume.

1751
02:39:45,810 --> 02:39:50,450
What we've seen in the last five years, of course the backdrop is we're down economic

1752
02:39:50,450 --> 02:39:57,770
and population growth, so it's even more reason to be wondering how best to approach these

1753
02:39:57,770 --> 02:39:58,170
things.

1754
02:39:58,790 --> 02:39:59,970
I think it underscores the need.

1755
02:40:00,000 --> 02:40:11,660
We need to have this conversation about the commercial strategy for this area and what that looks like and whether there are yet opportunities that you all haven't been able to capture yet that might happen to that.

1756
02:40:12,560 --> 02:40:23,100
And I think it also makes us think a little bit twice about how we're approaching the residential unit additions across the board and small area plans.

1757
02:40:23,100 --> 02:40:28,420
I appreciate what you all have done and I appreciate your flexibility and openness here and this is a first swing

1758
02:40:28,420 --> 02:40:35,280
What you've done but I think it is good and fair to give you sort of some feedback in terms of this whole commercial issue

1759
02:40:35,280 --> 02:40:41,220
And hope that we may be can look into that a little bit more clearly as we go forward. Thank you.

1760
02:40:41,920 --> 02:40:44,340
Can some member baits?

1761
02:40:44,640 --> 02:40:46,420
Just an additional comment.

1762
02:40:48,660 --> 02:40:53,700
In the interest of perhaps having some given take here,

1763
02:40:54,360 --> 02:40:56,060
I could see, and maybe this is something

1764
02:40:56,060 --> 02:40:58,480
that you might not necessarily even want to do,

1765
02:40:58,900 --> 02:41:00,120
given marking conditions,

1766
02:41:00,600 --> 02:41:05,100
but I could see an exchange for more significant amount

1767
02:41:05,100 --> 02:41:08,400
of commercial space going to all two over Tuesdays,

1768
02:41:08,400 --> 02:41:13,940
example to maintain, you know, the number of units roughly that you've proposed, in exchange

1769
02:41:13,940 --> 02:41:20,940
for providing additional commercial space here. Again, ideally at least half what's there.

1770
02:41:21,600 --> 02:41:27,660
But I also just want to point out that in addition to the five-story hotel that's directly to the

1771
02:41:27,660 --> 02:41:34,980
south, the office building next to the assembly on the west side of Chambridge Road that basically

1772
02:41:34,980 --> 02:41:40,380
back sort of the community. There is also forest stories. So very key thing with the current

1773
02:41:40,380 --> 02:41:45,760
character of that area. And additionally, it's a small area. Plain recommends a maximum of seven

1774
02:41:45,760 --> 02:41:50,400
stories here. So you even have some additional flexibility. But I think that forest stories throughout

1775
02:41:50,400 --> 02:41:52,940
the site would certainly be a reasonable.

1776
02:41:57,210 --> 02:42:03,330
Other questions or comments? Okay, so I think this is a

1777
02:42:03,330 --> 02:42:08,890
project, I like it. I think townhouses and two over-tools in this location is going to be

1778
02:42:08,890 --> 02:42:15,070
very appealing because of its proximity to I-66. I predict they will be sold before they're

1779
02:42:15,070 --> 02:42:22,830
completed. It also backs, it gives access to the I-66 trail, a very significant and they're

1780
02:42:22,830 --> 02:42:30,350
just additions and implementation for the I-66 trail and this housing is right there. As far as

1781
02:42:30,350 --> 02:42:37,670
retail, when I see I see what you see, which is you've got two hotels, you've got the

1782
02:42:37,670 --> 02:42:42,990
botanist over here, and the retail is probably going to be the services those people want

1783
02:42:42,990 --> 02:42:47,850
to want to want to. At that just makes sense that that's the kind of commercial retail that's

1784
02:42:47,850 --> 02:42:52,270
going to be there is the kind that serves that community. I like the fact that it's so few units

1785
02:42:52,270 --> 02:42:58,610
because these smaller units on these small parcels give a better opportunity to create a closer

1786
02:42:58,610 --> 02:43:03,270
community. I mean, you look at some places in Northern Virginia that have townhouses communities

1787
02:43:03,270 --> 02:43:09,310
that are just hundreds and hundreds of townhouses. And I think with the number, we have

1788
02:43:09,310 --> 02:43:15,370
other small townhouse developments, it just gives a greater sense of community, I think. But

1789
02:43:15,370 --> 02:43:22,910
the proximity to I66 and I66 are going to make them highly, highly desirable, I believe. And so

1790
02:43:22,910 --> 02:43:28,430
I really like the project. I know you've gone above and beyond on the green space in the

1791
02:43:28,430 --> 02:43:33,470
attention not only to what the small area of playing calls for, you're playing attention to what you've

1792
02:43:33,470 --> 02:43:40,070
historically heard the feedback from this council on other projects. DPI Adaptive Fitness

1793
02:43:40,070 --> 02:43:45,190
is in this complex. They're on the first floor. I don't know what other businesses are there. We

1794
02:43:45,190 --> 02:43:51,670
have vacancy in the city for like accountants and medical space and things like that. But DPI Adaptive

1795
02:43:51,670 --> 02:43:59,770
this is a very unique space that has been configured in a specific way and so I think I

1796
02:43:59,770 --> 02:44:06,330
haven't spoken with Devon or anyone else over there but the city obviously has plenty of time

1797
02:44:06,330 --> 02:44:11,690
to work with them to find another location in the city but you know so it's important that we know

1798
02:44:11,690 --> 02:44:16,910
who our businesses are I believe that they'll want to stay here in the city but we're first

1799
02:44:16,910 --> 02:44:22,910
step of a hundred people are now on notice that we need and I think our economic development team

1800
02:44:22,910 --> 02:44:27,790
will in fact find spaces for the businesses that want to stay here and I hope they all want

1801
02:44:27,790 --> 02:44:32,530
to stay here but I think the fitness definitely will want to stay here. So I have confidence,

1802
02:44:32,950 --> 02:44:39,090
I really have confidence in this project and look forward to seeing you come back based on the

1803
02:44:39,090 --> 02:44:42,390
feedback you've gotten. So thank you very much.

1804
02:44:45,560 --> 02:44:48,700
Missionary? Before I announce the next item and as

1805
02:44:48,700 --> 02:44:51,380
early, but I'm just doing a time check in 9.45.

1806
02:44:53,920 --> 02:44:59,040
So our last work session item is a discussion of a request by combined courthouse LLC.

1807
02:45:04,480 --> 02:45:30,000
1-2-0-049 for the redevelopment of 103-00, willard way, imprints 5-7-2-2004-D, and 3-9-2-2, blend embulivard, imprints 5-7-2-2-2003-A, and when

1808
02:45:30,000 --> 02:45:35,760
moving right along to Court House Plaza. This is a work session to discuss a redevelopment proposal at

1809
02:45:35,760 --> 02:45:44,360
1 0 3 0 0 order away and 3 9 2 2 blinnable of art. We are currently in the post submission phase of

1810
02:45:44,360 --> 02:45:49,720
a development review process so the applicant has made two submissions of the plan and staff have given

1811
02:45:49,720 --> 02:45:55,780
the applicant comments on their application. A work session was held with the Board of Architectural

1812
02:45:55,780 --> 02:46:02,360
review on June 3rd, and with the planning commission on June 22nd.

1813
02:46:04,900 --> 02:46:08,020
On the right here is an aerial of the site.

1814
02:46:08,420 --> 02:46:13,340
The site is bounded by Blenham Boulevard on the east and university drive on the west.

1815
02:46:13,780 --> 02:46:19,480
To the north is Democracy Lane and Plaza Drive, and to the south is the library.

1816
02:46:20,480 --> 02:46:26,260
The site is located in the activity center, please type, and is subject to the old town

1817
02:46:26,260 --> 02:46:28,500
Fairfax small area plan.

1818
02:46:28,900 --> 02:46:35,500
This site is currently zoned CR commercial retail and CG commercial general in the transition

1819
02:46:35,500 --> 02:46:41,880
overlay district and the applicant proposes a zoning change to PDM plan development mixed use.

1820
02:46:44,730 --> 02:46:51,170
The applicant proposes a phase development with phase one including 315 residential units,

1821
02:46:51,630 --> 02:46:55,730
a 72 foot height maximum, which does require a special exception.

1822
02:46:55,730 --> 02:47:01,510
the applicant has submitted a special exception request to exceed the 48 foot height

1823
02:47:01,510 --> 02:47:08,490
maximum in the transition overly district and the small area plan recommends a

1824
02:47:08,490 --> 02:47:16,830
six-story height maximum on this site. Phase one also includes 12,500 square feet

1825
02:47:16,830 --> 02:47:23,370
of first four retail, roughly 30,000 square feet of open space, a plaza to the

1826
02:47:23,370 --> 02:47:28,450
of the existing retail, new landscaping, and two new streets.

1827
02:47:29,490 --> 02:47:31,530
It also includes new and wide-end sidewalks.

1828
02:47:32,470 --> 02:47:35,690
The applicant is also requesting a special exception for sidewalks

1829
02:47:35,690 --> 02:47:39,250
to allow some sidewalks to be narrower than 10 feet.

1830
02:47:41,500 --> 02:47:46,240
The plan also shows 741 parking spaces in service infrastructure parking.

1831
02:47:46,680 --> 02:47:51,040
The applicant is also requesting a special exception to reduce the minimum parking ratio

1832
02:47:51,040 --> 02:47:56,500
from 1.5 to 1.25 parking spaces per residential unit.

1833
02:47:57,980 --> 02:48:02,540
The plans also include facade updates to the Courthouse Plaza Shopping Center and public

1834
02:48:02,540 --> 02:48:05,320
are along the proposed street one facade.

1835
02:48:07,820 --> 02:48:11,760
Phase two would require a future amendment to the master development plan.

1836
02:48:12,440 --> 02:48:17,780
So if this application is approved, phase two would need to come back to this body at a future

1837
02:48:17,780 --> 02:48:19,520
time for approval.

1838
02:48:20,340 --> 02:48:26,620
In phase 2, the applicant proposes 315 residential units, a new North to South Street,

1839
02:48:27,220 --> 02:48:34,280
50,000 square feet of first floor retail, and addition to one of the pad buildings,

1840
02:48:35,040 --> 02:48:41,340
90,000 square feet of open space, and 980 parking spaces across surface infrastructure parking.

1841
02:48:43,360 --> 02:48:47,520
Here are some renderings of the proposed building for phase 1.

1842
02:48:50,370 --> 02:48:52,310
These are more renderings,

1843
02:48:56,480 --> 02:49:07,640
these are renderings of the center that would be refaced, and then on the right image you can see a proposed plaza to the east of the existing retail.

1844
02:49:10,760 --> 02:49:23,140
And then next steps for this application are plan resimission and staff review, public hearings with the Planning Commission City Council and the Board of Architectural Review, and that concludes my presentation.

1845
02:49:23,600 --> 02:49:26,640
And the applicant is here to present next.

1846
02:49:29,440 --> 02:49:30,640
Yes, do you want to switch?

1847
02:49:30,880 --> 02:49:31,840
Or do you want to?

1848
02:49:35,200 --> 02:49:35,560
Sorry.

1849
02:49:35,920 --> 02:49:36,280
One moment.

1850
02:49:39,260 --> 02:49:39,760
There you go.

1851
02:49:51,000 --> 02:49:51,440
Good evening.

1852
02:49:51,540 --> 02:49:52,660
My name is Molly Novotny.

1853
02:49:52,720 --> 02:49:54,680
I'm an urban planner with curada partners.

1854
02:49:54,920 --> 02:49:57,900
And I'm pleased to be here before tonight with the combined properties team.

1855
02:49:57,940 --> 02:49:59,800
I have Aisha Hill at the table with me.

1856
02:50:01,670 --> 02:50:13,790
Significantly to this body, combined properties, owns four properties in the city, scout on the circle in the upper portion of this image, pick it in turn, pick shopping centers and then courthouse, which is what we're talking with you about tonight.

1857
02:50:14,590 --> 02:50:24,130
This image you saw when I was here before, it shows the area in magenta which will be removed. That is the only portion of the building that would be removed with this first phase.

1858
02:50:24,130 --> 02:50:26,390
and then rebuilt with the mixed use building,

1859
02:50:26,630 --> 02:50:28,650
everything in green as existing retail

1860
02:50:28,650 --> 02:50:31,510
that would be renovated with this project.

1861
02:50:32,630 --> 02:50:35,470
We have made significant significant revisions

1862
02:50:35,470 --> 02:50:37,630
to this application before this body saw it.

1863
02:50:37,650 --> 02:50:39,630
Since this body has seen it in 2025,

1864
02:50:40,310 --> 02:50:42,290
additionally we've made significant revisions

1865
02:50:42,290 --> 02:50:45,090
since the images that Clara presented in her presentation.

1866
02:50:45,350 --> 02:50:47,390
So you're going to see different architecture

1867
02:50:47,390 --> 02:50:48,390
and my presentation,

1868
02:50:48,570 --> 02:50:49,870
we're going to see additional commitments

1869
02:50:49,870 --> 02:50:52,630
that we've made because we have been working with staff,

1870
02:50:52,630 --> 02:50:57,850
the Planning Commission and BAR over the last six weeks to be able to address their comments.

1871
02:50:58,510 --> 02:51:03,490
So significantly with this application, we're now rezoning the entire property to the

1872
02:51:03,490 --> 02:51:08,110
PD and district. We've also proposed that second phase, which was something staff had requested

1873
02:51:08,110 --> 02:51:14,170
before. We've removed some several of our special exception requests, including the request for parking.

1874
02:51:15,370 --> 02:51:20,070
We have upgraded our architecture, so you're going to see a lot of red brick integrated into

1875
02:51:20,070 --> 02:51:25,350
buildings, you're going to see the commitment that the Safeway gets refaced with this phase

1876
02:51:25,350 --> 02:51:29,830
one. We've also reduced the height of the building at the corner of university and democracy.

1877
02:51:31,270 --> 02:51:34,930
Some additional things with landscaping, we've added a central park in phase two,

1878
02:51:35,030 --> 02:51:41,850
we've added a linear park along Blenham. We've really created an established new open spaces and also added

1879
02:51:41,850 --> 02:51:47,850
interim open space if phase two gets delayed. And then for site conditions, we have removed the

1880
02:51:47,850 --> 02:51:52,950
point at the sidewalks so our sidewalks facing public roads are all 10 feet and we have

1881
02:51:52,950 --> 02:51:55,230
widens and streets for a vehicular traffic.

1882
02:51:59,430 --> 02:52:01,190
But to set the stage, this application is

1883
02:52:01,190 --> 02:52:06,250
here before you because your small area plan in 2020 asked for this application. It identified

1884
02:52:06,250 --> 02:52:12,570
this site to be redeveloped to include multi-family apartment buildings up to 6 stories and height

1885
02:52:12,570 --> 02:52:18,730
and to be grocery anchored. The area in this image in this part of Old Town had 0% residential

1886
02:52:18,730 --> 02:52:24,510
in 2020 and that plan called for our 58% mix of residential and that's again from your small area

1887
02:52:24,510 --> 02:52:31,610
plan. And so what we've done with phase one is we've focused on the left portion of the project,

1888
02:52:31,710 --> 02:52:35,590
we've got the parking garage, the interior courtyard and a mixed use building. That building

1889
02:52:35,590 --> 02:52:42,290
will have 12,500 square feet of new retail and all of this green space will be all open space

1890
02:52:42,290 --> 02:52:48,290
available in phase one with new pocket parks throughout. And then when we come to phase two,

1891
02:52:48,290 --> 02:52:50,610
What we've done is we've established the street network.

1892
02:52:50,850 --> 02:52:52,230
We've established the street trees.

1893
02:52:52,330 --> 02:52:53,690
We've established the building on below.

1894
02:52:53,930 --> 02:52:57,470
We hadn't had these details before you and we were here in 2025,

1895
02:52:58,030 --> 02:53:00,770
but we've now committed to this as a phase two plan

1896
02:53:00,770 --> 02:53:04,410
to start to show you how the full site could redevelop

1897
02:53:04,410 --> 02:53:06,470
and this entire site would be re-owned.

1898
02:53:06,650 --> 02:53:08,830
Additionally, we've shown an additional building

1899
02:53:08,830 --> 02:53:12,350
on the pad site that building could locate in different areas

1900
02:53:12,350 --> 02:53:13,190
along that pad site.

1901
02:53:13,230 --> 02:53:16,550
We could put it along street two or along bloom as we've shown.

1902
02:53:17,890 --> 02:53:24,730
Architecture. This is an image that was in Clara's presentation and is what was included in our second submission to staff back in May.

1903
02:53:25,450 --> 02:53:32,970
Since that time we've heard from your BAR and staff they would like more red brick. So what you're going to see is a significantly revised building.

1904
02:53:33,470 --> 02:53:42,330
What this building does is it removes the white brick and it converts any black brick to be an accent material and it integrates red brick throughout.

1905
02:53:42,330 --> 02:53:49,170
So, these facades, democracy, university and street one are primarily brick.

1906
02:53:49,350 --> 02:53:53,870
The only element on these buildings, besides access, that isn't brick, is that champagne-colored

1907
02:53:53,870 --> 02:53:54,650
fiber cement.

1908
02:53:55,210 --> 02:53:58,990
So, we've really done a significant overhaul with the materials and the color palette.

1909
02:53:59,350 --> 02:54:01,730
This is a corner of democracy and university.

1910
02:54:01,790 --> 02:54:05,630
You can see how we've lowered that building height to help with that transition at that corner.

1911
02:54:07,130 --> 02:54:08,570
And then again, just looking up democracy.

1912
02:54:09,550 --> 02:54:12,990
This is the safe way that top image is what it looks like today.

1913
02:54:13,230 --> 02:54:17,810
The bottom would show a refaste safe way, which would occur prior to residential occupancy,

1914
02:54:18,270 --> 02:54:23,450
and then the overall center being a completely renovated and integrated development.

1915
02:54:24,970 --> 02:54:28,670
Existing tenants, yes, we will be relocating existing tenants that are there.

1916
02:54:28,690 --> 02:54:34,950
We have commitments in our application that commit to rent subsidies for tenants and goods

1917
02:54:34,950 --> 02:54:38,850
to help them relocate to find other properties in the city.

1918
02:54:39,250 --> 02:54:42,870
We also have a commitment that we're going to reserve some smaller space in our building

1919
02:54:42,870 --> 02:54:46,390
for startup customers and to continue to work with your economic development.

1920
02:54:46,770 --> 02:54:50,570
We think those are important commitments and we're proud to have made them.

1921
02:54:50,870 --> 02:54:53,610
In terms of connectivity, this site is incredibly poor.

1922
02:54:53,770 --> 02:54:57,150
This image shows an orange, all the vehicular routes through the site

1923
02:54:57,150 --> 02:54:59,970
and then all the pedestrian routes through the site, really interesting.

1924
02:55:05,540 --> 02:55:21,700
We've got a list of seven feet of walking area on street one, and then it enlarges to at least 10 feet of walking area everywhere else. If not 12 feet or wider, you've got lots of room for outdoor space, lots of room for tables,

1925
02:55:24,020 --> 02:55:28,840
and then we've got significant open space. Today the site only has 4.3% open space. It's ridiculous.

1926
02:55:28,840 --> 02:55:35,600
there's there it's a surface parking lot. At the end of phase one we will have increased that open space to 12.3%

1927
02:55:35,600 --> 02:55:41,320
and then we've added interim open space. If by 2035 we haven't moved forward with the next phase that

1928
02:55:42,280 --> 02:55:48,180
bolsters that open space to 13.4% before bringing it to the 20% with the full build out of phase two.

1929
02:55:49,020 --> 02:55:54,240
Just some images to show you and give you that feel of how we've articulated and really activated the open space

1930
02:55:55,240 --> 02:56:01,580
retail park along Safeway, proposed linear park along Blunham, and then again a reminder of the

1931
02:56:01,580 --> 02:56:05,740
significant revisions that we've made to this application since 2025, and I'm happy

1932
02:56:05,740 --> 02:56:06,900
to answer any questions.

1933
02:56:08,770 --> 02:56:09,590
Councilmember Ames.

1934
02:56:11,850 --> 02:56:12,290
Thank you.

1935
02:56:12,410 --> 02:56:13,690
This is a great presentation.

1936
02:56:14,630 --> 02:56:20,250
Just to go into some of the likes, the open space plus the linear park that's pretty impressive.

1937
02:56:20,550 --> 02:56:21,910
So I appreciate that.

1938
02:56:21,950 --> 02:56:26,390
I'll come back to the tenor location plan shortly, my understanding is also you've been

1939
02:56:26,390 --> 02:56:30,430
communication with our academic development team and I see that's included in here that makes

1940
02:56:30,430 --> 02:56:35,270
me very happy to see. And I think you'll probably hear from my colleagues as well with the

1941
02:56:35,270 --> 02:56:41,190
color scheme as a significant improvement. So I really like to see that for the tenant relocation

1942
02:56:41,190 --> 02:56:47,290
plan just for clarification and this is more just interest rather than anything substantial for the

1943
02:56:47,290 --> 02:56:52,570
graduated rent for smaller scale tenants. So in terms, where did that idea come from and what's

1944
02:56:52,570 --> 02:56:55,930
all to make goal with accomplishing that.

1945
02:56:55,930 --> 02:56:56,490
Good evening.

1946
02:56:57,210 --> 02:57:00,790
So the idea originally came from the current situation

1947
02:57:00,790 --> 02:57:04,610
at courthouse plaza, because we do that we

1948
02:57:04,610 --> 02:57:06,850
wanted the opportunity to redevelop it.

1949
02:57:07,410 --> 02:57:11,430
We were left with below market least terms.

1950
02:57:11,970 --> 02:57:14,810
So ultimately for less than market rent,

1951
02:57:15,130 --> 02:57:17,450
you could lease our space instead of 10 years.

1952
02:57:17,590 --> 02:57:20,510
You might get three or five or seven depending on the timing.

1953
02:57:20,510 --> 02:57:24,790
And so there are some tenants that have this gap between what's technically

1954
02:57:24,790 --> 02:57:29,110
market rent and what they're paying today, and so recognizing that

1955
02:57:29,110 --> 02:57:33,450
difference we wanted to be able to help people along the way and help our

1956
02:57:33,450 --> 02:57:37,610
tenants along the way in the event there isn't another below market space

1957
02:57:37,610 --> 02:57:43,030
available for them that we can help them get there. So over a three-year period

1958
02:57:43,550 --> 02:57:46,510
you know the details don't need to be worked out how it would work with the other

1959
02:57:46,510 --> 02:57:53,470
landlord and that sort of thing, but that we would, we would fill that gap for them, and then

1960
02:57:53,470 --> 02:57:58,450
on the other side of that, that there could also be an opportunity for new small businesses

1961
02:57:58,450 --> 02:58:02,910
coming in, or businesses that are currently there today that want to come back.

1962
02:58:03,110 --> 02:58:09,290
That might also need similar assistance as they get started and, you know, or early in their

1963
02:58:09,290 --> 02:58:12,250
business, that this could be a place they could come and start and grow.

1964
02:58:12,250 --> 02:58:19,710
And would this be just for three years, or are you saying this is kind of like a process you want to implement moving forward over the long term?

1965
02:58:19,810 --> 02:58:24,070
So for existing tenants, it would be for three years.

1966
02:58:24,650 --> 02:58:29,610
It's not something that we could financially handle, you know, into infinity.

1967
02:58:31,030 --> 02:58:35,290
We could give it a little bit more thought on the new small businesses.

1968
02:58:35,590 --> 02:58:38,670
Our original thought that it would be a similar three year period.

1969
02:58:39,110 --> 02:58:43,870
And they could choose to stay though in the space, but that their rent would gradually increase

1970
02:58:43,870 --> 02:58:44,470
over time.

1971
02:58:44,470 --> 02:58:45,830
And if they chose to stay they could.

1972
02:58:45,850 --> 02:58:46,110
Sorry.

1973
02:58:46,270 --> 02:58:48,870
I asked my question poorly and that's why there's confusion.

1974
02:58:49,270 --> 02:58:53,410
What I mean is, for example, you have a business that moves in there and they're there for

1975
02:58:53,410 --> 02:58:58,070
10 years and they'd said to relocate, does the new business coming in get a similar program

1976
02:58:58,070 --> 02:59:02,490
or would they just go, I'm assuming at the rate that's existing at that time?

1977
02:59:03,830 --> 02:59:06,470
After 10 years it would be that new market rate.

1978
02:59:06,710 --> 02:59:06,950
Okay.

1979
02:59:07,210 --> 02:59:07,810
Thank you.

1980
02:59:09,510 --> 02:59:13,710
Other questions, comments on this, Councilor Perpates?

1981
02:59:15,770 --> 02:59:24,490
Thank you, so certainly, you know, I think that there have been some improvements here that are much appreciated.

1982
02:59:26,410 --> 02:59:35,670
As well as perhaps some lingering minor questions and issues to be addressed and understand you all, you know, have another submission coming up.

1983
02:59:35,670 --> 02:59:46,110
But I mainly just want to ask, do we have the current tree canopy percentage as well on the site?

1984
02:59:47,510 --> 02:59:48,310
Under current conditions?

1985
02:59:49,510 --> 02:59:53,310
We are working on getting you the current tree canopy on the site today.

1986
02:59:55,110 --> 02:59:59,730
The way tree canopy is calculated doesn't necessarily measure.

1987
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:07,240
The survey ability or the quality of that tree. And so, rather, it takes it into account the canopy of the tree.

1988
03:00:07,420 --> 03:00:14,320
But if you go out to look at that tree, the health of the tree is not always at the standard you would want.

1989
03:00:14,640 --> 03:00:20,860
And so, we want to be able to paint an accurate picture for you. And so, we will be providing that calculation.

1990
03:00:20,860 --> 03:00:31,220
But anyway, I think that the significant increase in open space, particularly where there was

1991
03:00:31,220 --> 03:00:38,340
simply pavement before in a lot of cases, represents significant opportunity to reduce

1992
03:00:38,340 --> 03:00:43,280
impervious surface on the site, in addition to a belief that there are additional stormwater

1993
03:00:43,280 --> 03:00:45,700
management improvements proposed as well.

1994
03:00:45,700 --> 03:00:52,700
So I think that's really important for our environmental sustainability going forward, as well as

1995
03:00:53,760 --> 03:00:54,640
you know, stormwater management.

1996
03:00:55,900 --> 03:00:56,040
Thanks.

1997
03:00:57,360 --> 03:00:58,400
Council Member Hall.

1998
03:00:59,420 --> 03:00:59,740
Thank you.

1999
03:01:01,320 --> 03:01:05,640
So I want to start with saying this is, in my opinion, very, very much improved.

2000
03:01:06,280 --> 03:01:08,920
I'm really happy to see the changes to the brick.

2001
03:01:09,500 --> 03:01:14,680
I feel like you're incorporating a lot more of what is our historical down it and so many areas throughout

2002
03:01:14,680 --> 03:01:21,360
the city, sorry my voice is going away. I'm having some trouble visualizing some things

2003
03:01:21,360 --> 03:01:25,700
and I'm hoping you could maybe help me a little bit. I'm most curious, did you decide

2004
03:01:25,700 --> 03:01:32,020
no, did you happen to meet with the old Fairfax Muse HOA? We did a while ago or recently.

2005
03:01:32,540 --> 03:01:38,900
Two weeks ago, three weeks ago? Okay, because did they see this updated? No, so when this

2006
03:01:38,900 --> 03:01:43,100
is a work in progress and this is part of what happens in this cycle, right? So we had been

2007
03:01:43,100 --> 03:01:47,780
to the planning commission and the BAR before we met with the old Fairfax News.

2008
03:01:48,040 --> 03:01:52,240
We told them that those bodies had asked us to revise the architecture.

2009
03:01:52,820 --> 03:01:57,760
We had shown them an interim option that we had shared with the planning commission,

2010
03:01:58,260 --> 03:01:59,660
but said we are still working on this.

2011
03:01:59,760 --> 03:02:03,180
So they have not seen these latest ones you guys are the first to see them.

2012
03:02:04,160 --> 03:02:10,680
I appreciate that and knowing that, I think some of the concerns that the VHOA,

2013
03:02:10,680 --> 03:02:11,560
I'm sure you heard them.

2014
03:02:11,720 --> 03:02:11,900
Yes.

2015
03:02:11,900 --> 03:02:20,160
Some of those have been, I think, moderately addressed in here, and this is where I'm going to need a little bit more of a visual.

2016
03:02:21,480 --> 03:02:31,400
So, looking at this picture, democracy-lane-looking east, so this, the flaps are on the left, is that the flaps are on the left, yep.

2017
03:02:32,000 --> 03:02:37,980
I'm standing at university, looking up democracy-lane here.

2018
03:02:37,980 --> 03:02:39,100
Okay.

2019
03:02:41,800 --> 03:02:50,940
Okay. Okay. So right now we're at five stories on the front side as opposed to the six that had been previously.

2020
03:02:53,040 --> 03:02:54,720
Yes, so let's.

2021
03:03:01,260 --> 03:03:05,240
So this image now I've moved down a street. So sorry for the confusion.

2022
03:03:05,380 --> 03:03:13,020
I've moved down a street. This is looking to the left is university and the flats are in the background behind that ghosted out tree.

2023
03:03:14,500 --> 03:03:20,180
Street, our new street one is to the right here, and so this is kind of our front entrance.

2024
03:03:20,300 --> 03:03:24,500
I am looking, the old Fairfax Muse is going to be up into the left.

2025
03:03:25,000 --> 03:03:27,500
Okay, so I'm on University now on University now.

2026
03:03:28,360 --> 03:03:35,020
And so you have here, six story, six story building along University, it drops to five stories

2027
03:03:35,020 --> 03:03:41,660
at that corner of democracy on the left side, it drops to five, okay.

2028
03:03:41,880 --> 03:03:49,720
is it? So I appreciate that the land, the design of the landscaping, the, the, the, the,

2029
03:03:49,920 --> 03:03:55,160
the way that the, the darker brick, I guess is there in the forefront, and then the wider

2030
03:03:55,160 --> 03:04:00,800
is in the back. I feel like that visually helps a lot with the height feeling.

2031
03:04:01,720 --> 03:04:06,800
I do still feel like that one section there where it says retail and the apartments is still a little

2032
03:04:06,800 --> 03:04:10,760
tall. I would love to see that knock down by one story. If it all possible,

2033
03:04:10,760 --> 03:04:14,420
But I do understand that, you know, you need to make a profit and all of that.

2034
03:04:14,560 --> 03:04:25,660
I still think it's a lot of units, but visually I think this is much more appealing and in-line with what our residents have been asking for there.

2035
03:04:28,620 --> 03:04:40,280
This is going to be a clearer question or maybe a Dan question, but I don't think I realize the university drive is going to be going down to one lane to accommodate bike lanes.

2036
03:04:40,800 --> 03:04:45,540
I thought we were putting bike lanes on there, but we were still keeping two lanes of traffic.

2037
03:04:50,120 --> 03:04:50,240
Sorry.

2038
03:04:50,460 --> 03:04:52,060
We're making it up a lot tonight.

2039
03:04:55,190 --> 03:04:56,130
It quite not sound much, sure.

2040
03:04:56,150 --> 03:04:56,990
I should be answering this.

2041
03:04:57,230 --> 03:04:58,810
I believe it's four.

2042
03:04:58,850 --> 03:04:59,970
It's a four lane second.

2043
03:05:00,000 --> 03:05:21,960
As you get toward North Street and then as you come back, headed north going by this property down the hill and so forth, it transitions to a three lane section where you have a center turning lane and two travel lanes, but we'll check that.

2044
03:05:21,960 --> 03:05:29,280
Our traffic engineers here and they're not in their head and agree about it. Okay, for the city's plans. Not our plans

2045
03:05:29,280 --> 03:05:35,620
We just show them but they're the city plans. Yeah, what I will say for the city as large

2046
03:05:35,620 --> 03:05:40,900
Whether it's you guys were the city, but we have these nice 10 foot wide sidewalks

2047
03:05:40,900 --> 03:05:47,560
Which could also be called a shared use path to me that could be a great place for a bike to go without taking out a total lane on university

2048
03:05:47,560 --> 03:05:53,640
recognizing not your situation, but I think we're going to get a lot of pushback when that starts to come out a little bit more.

2049
03:05:54,300 --> 03:05:56,880
I don't know who I'm looking at but all of you.

2050
03:06:00,700 --> 03:06:06,600
So, I think this is not depressing looking anymore to quote the woman that came earlier and I have to agree with that.

2051
03:06:06,720 --> 03:06:13,600
I mean, I think before it was very, it's just two new, it was two fancy, it was two, all of the things that I don't think were great.

2052
03:06:14,320 --> 03:06:20,040
I still think it's a lot of units and I know I've said that a couple of different times and I'm not going to change my mind on that.

2053
03:06:20,860 --> 03:06:28,520
But I really do want to give you credit for adding in as much of the open space that you have adding in the green space.

2054
03:06:29,600 --> 03:06:35,600
I don't know what your plans are for like the parking, but if there's any way to do some impervious,

2055
03:06:35,600 --> 03:06:41,320
serious, you know, pervious parking spots in some of those areas with, you know, the fancy

2056
03:06:41,980 --> 03:06:45,680
things as opposed to concrete or as a lot or whatever. I think that's another opportunity

2057
03:06:45,680 --> 03:06:52,480
to take what is still a pretty large parking lot out in the open. I appreciate your, I'm

2058
03:06:52,480 --> 03:06:56,860
sorry, I'm trying to find the pages here, but I appreciate your efforts to do the kind

2059
03:06:56,860 --> 03:07:04,520
of the pocket park along Blanam and some of the other things. Is this, yeah, sorry, there's

2060
03:07:04,520 --> 03:07:11,520
a lot of pages. Thank you. But there was another spot where you're kind of doing a little bit more

2061
03:07:11,520 --> 03:07:17,920
of a park feature. There we go. Thank you. So we have this is our phase one commitment that

2062
03:07:17,920 --> 03:07:24,180
when the multi-family opens. And then the darker green on the blendem side here would be an interim

2063
03:07:24,180 --> 03:07:32,040
park space. If for some reason we don't move forward with phase two. So right now if you recall

2064
03:07:32,040 --> 03:07:36,440
safeway controls the entire parking field with its lease. So we can't affect those parking spaces

2065
03:07:36,440 --> 03:07:40,460
anymore than what we've already done. But when that lease expires at the end of 2034,

2066
03:07:40,960 --> 03:07:46,480
we can control that space and so we can commit to turn that into additional open space at that time

2067
03:07:46,480 --> 03:07:55,600
if we haven't filed a phase two plan. Okay. And does any interior safeway work get done in any of these proposals?

2068
03:08:00,030 --> 03:08:01,790
So, that's safe way of decision.

2069
03:08:02,130 --> 03:08:05,790
It is our hope that they will do work on the inside of the building,

2070
03:08:06,290 --> 03:08:07,510
but they are completely uncontrolled,

2071
03:08:08,070 --> 03:08:09,890
and not combined, unfortunately.

2072
03:08:10,590 --> 03:08:11,850
Okay. I figured that was going to be your answer.

2073
03:08:12,190 --> 03:08:13,830
I do like the brick.

2074
03:08:14,010 --> 03:08:15,990
I like all the things that you have proposed there.

2075
03:08:17,450 --> 03:08:19,270
I mean again, because it's a lot of pages here.

2076
03:08:19,510 --> 03:08:23,490
How many units total are we talking in phase one and phase two?

2077
03:08:23,970 --> 03:08:26,690
It's a total of three hundred and fifteen units per building.

2078
03:08:26,690 --> 03:08:31,690
And so phase one would be three fifteen and then if we come forward with phase two would be three fifteen

2079
03:08:32,690 --> 03:08:36,350
It's in the fourth and thirty children. Yes, over

2080
03:08:36,350 --> 03:08:43,670
You're significant time period, right and we're not we're not asking for the approval of phase two of those details now

2081
03:08:43,670 --> 03:08:50,290
We are merely committing to the build of a envelope the street network the street trees that open space commitments

2082
03:08:50,290 --> 03:08:56,670
But we want the market we want the cities growth to be able to be absorbed into really give us

2083
03:08:56,690 --> 03:09:04,250
guidance on that phase too. Okay. And I think, again, it's a lot of units, but I do think

2084
03:09:04,250 --> 03:09:12,470
it's reasonable in the layout and the things that have come out of this newer design

2085
03:09:12,470 --> 03:09:17,070
with it. Do you know roughly what your breakdown is going to be for one versus two versus

2086
03:09:17,070 --> 03:09:25,450
three units, better units? We can get you the specific breakdown for now. I don't have that in front

2087
03:09:25,450 --> 03:09:30,690
But we will have the majority one bedroom one bedroom. Yes, okay,

2088
03:09:34,100 --> 03:09:36,600
and will there be any like amenities on site

2089
03:09:36,600 --> 03:09:42,660
Can you remind me for the residents that live here? Yes, so there's a structured part can garage build the

2090
03:09:43,860 --> 03:09:48,500
upper part of the interior building and then it's an interior green courtyard that would have a pool

2091
03:09:48,500 --> 03:09:53,580
We've committed to a pool indoor outdoor pool, okay, but it's a

2092
03:09:53,580 --> 03:09:57,580
court yard that is internal to the building, right? So it's really

2093
03:09:57,580 --> 03:09:59,960
creased that privacy for those future residents.

2094
03:10:00,760 --> 03:10:11,200
Okay. And I was in there with those. There would be a fitness center in kind of co-working space in a lobby in your traditional, you know, pet spa, bike room, traditional, class A apartment amenities.

2095
03:10:11,520 --> 03:10:15,240
I'm sorry, was that pet spa? Yeah, so it's spot to wash your dog.

2096
03:10:15,640 --> 03:10:17,160
That's called my shower right now.

2097
03:10:17,400 --> 03:10:17,480
Right.

2098
03:10:18,940 --> 03:10:19,180
Okay.

2099
03:10:22,620 --> 03:10:29,800
Sorry, question to something. Oh, I did want to thank you also for reaching out to every single tenant that's in there. I've actually heard from a couple of tenants this week.

2100
03:10:29,800 --> 03:10:33,720
I haven't had chance to respond yet, but I think that the outreach was appreciated.

2101
03:10:33,720 --> 03:10:38,860
I'm happy to see the plan that you've put in place, and just to make sure I understand

2102
03:10:38,860 --> 03:10:47,380
what that is, it's a commitment of low for up to three years with pre-negotiated increases

2103
03:10:47,380 --> 03:10:48,960
of 3% per year.

2104
03:10:51,360 --> 03:10:59,780
So this would allow them to temporarily relocate, come back into your new space for three years,

2105
03:10:59,780 --> 03:11:04,020
with a 3% increase, is that correct?

2106
03:11:05,180 --> 03:11:07,340
Whether the relocation would be up to the tenant.

2107
03:11:08,200 --> 03:11:13,220
So we've committed to helping them find a new space,

2108
03:11:13,360 --> 03:11:17,180
if they would like, or if they do want to come back into this space,

2109
03:11:17,340 --> 03:11:20,400
then we could help them in that situation as well.

2110
03:11:20,500 --> 03:11:23,300
But it is challenging for tenants to move twice.

2111
03:11:24,160 --> 03:11:26,980
So they're probably wouldn't be very many that do that.

2112
03:11:26,980 --> 03:11:30,580
But we are open to them coming back if they would like to do that.

2113
03:11:31,060 --> 03:11:37,560
Okay, and is there any way with the construction and the answer might be no, but is there

2114
03:11:37,560 --> 03:11:43,560
any way that these businesses could stay in place during some portion of the construction?

2115
03:11:43,720 --> 03:11:47,480
Like when you're working on the, I'm going to use the word left because I'm not going to go with

2116
03:11:47,480 --> 03:11:52,060
these unless with the left portion and those kind of things or is it once you start

2117
03:11:52,060 --> 03:11:56,160
you start and everything to the left of the safeways is kind of instantly gone.

2118
03:11:59,920 --> 03:12:08,020
more than likely everyone will have to vacate for safety reasons we usually have to cut off gas power water and make sure things are safe.

2119
03:12:10,460 --> 03:12:12,160
Well, it's never perfect for everybody, right?

2120
03:12:12,340 --> 03:12:17,060
But I do appreciate what you are doing and I think it's clear that you have gone above and beyond,

2121
03:12:17,180 --> 03:12:22,000
I know phase two was not something that you initially wanted to kind of commit to at this point.

2122
03:12:22,020 --> 03:12:26,320
I know there was a lot of pushback on that from city staff from members of council as well.

2123
03:12:26,320 --> 03:12:30,380
So I do want to acknowledge that I can tell a lot of extra work has gone into this.

2124
03:12:30,500 --> 03:12:31,800
So thank you very much.

2125
03:12:32,260 --> 03:12:33,080
Thank you.

2126
03:12:34,550 --> 03:12:35,330
Councilmember McCool.

2127
03:12:39,350 --> 03:12:39,910
Thank you.

2128
03:12:39,930 --> 03:12:42,950
This is much a much better fit than previous submissions.

2129
03:12:43,430 --> 03:12:49,210
I really appreciate the work that you all did on changing the colors and the architecture

2130
03:12:49,210 --> 03:12:50,090
look to it.

2131
03:12:50,130 --> 03:12:54,750
It looks much more like if it's in this area of our community.

2132
03:12:54,750 --> 03:13:02,250
I also like to reduce height the corner of university and democracy, I think that that really does make a huge difference.

2133
03:13:02,850 --> 03:13:09,110
The 10-foot sidewalks, thank you, really appreciate that in the green spaces I like that as well.

2134
03:13:10,610 --> 03:13:20,390
The only concern I have, I do like your explanation about your approach and your strategy for phase two and the safe way, if you could do that, that would look great.

2135
03:13:20,390 --> 03:13:23,470
The only concern I have is density still.

2136
03:13:23,750 --> 03:13:26,490
It's still pretty, it's still a lot of units there for me.

2137
03:13:27,170 --> 03:13:31,410
However, it looks like there's, I guess the only question I have then

2138
03:13:31,410 --> 03:13:36,350
is what, what community benefit beyond just housing do you see this offering?

2139
03:13:39,540 --> 03:13:42,080
So we have a commitment statement within that statement.

2140
03:13:42,620 --> 03:13:48,300
We've, you know, made commitments to financially fund the schools.

2141
03:13:49,140 --> 03:13:53,240
Financial fund Parks and Rec, I'm trying to get to the right page,

2142
03:13:57,800 --> 03:13:58,740
we've made our tenant

2143
03:13:58,740 --> 03:13:59,580
relocations.

2144
03:14:00,660 --> 03:14:02,060
I skipped right by it.

2145
03:14:02,300 --> 03:14:06,100
So the City School Fund, we've committed to $1600 a unit, which is more than other

2146
03:14:06,100 --> 03:14:08,720
applicants have committed to when we studied this last time.

2147
03:14:09,140 --> 03:14:16,220
We've got $367 a unit for city recreational amenities, we've committed to up to $305,000

2148
03:14:16,220 --> 03:14:21,840
toward undergrowning utilities, we've added $10,000 for commemorative signage on the site,

2149
03:14:21,840 --> 03:14:23,820
in a variety of things like that.

2150
03:14:23,960 --> 03:14:25,000
Thank you so much.

2151
03:14:25,140 --> 03:14:28,300
And then my last question was that the small area

2152
03:14:28,300 --> 03:14:32,340
plan in this area, what is the top amount of stories

2153
03:14:32,340 --> 03:14:33,780
that you can go for this spot?

2154
03:14:33,820 --> 03:14:34,840
It calls for six stories.

2155
03:14:34,840 --> 03:14:36,660
It's six, and that's what this says, right?

2156
03:14:37,040 --> 03:14:37,960
Yep, and that's what we proposed.

2157
03:14:38,300 --> 03:14:39,940
Thank you, I appreciate that.

2158
03:14:41,620 --> 03:14:42,660
Can some member Petersen?

2159
03:14:43,160 --> 03:14:45,200
Yeah, just a couple of clarifying questions.

2160
03:14:45,460 --> 03:14:47,060
I may need a little help from staff.

2161
03:14:47,640 --> 03:14:51,680
On this, I got the presentation this morning at nine

2162
03:14:51,680 --> 03:14:54,940
and really didn't have a chance to go through this,

2163
03:14:55,820 --> 03:14:59,960
and to tell also, pardon me if I have not been able to.

2164
03:15:00,820 --> 03:15:06,320
Capture everything in here, and that I'm not able to capture everything with the questions right now.

2165
03:15:07,720 --> 03:15:16,020
But just a couple of clarifications here. You said there's zero residential density, there's zero residential,

2166
03:15:16,440 --> 03:15:17,860
where you were referring to again.

2167
03:15:18,400 --> 03:15:23,800
So, in the small area plan, when that was adopted in 2020, it identified that there was no residential,

2168
03:15:23,800 --> 03:15:30,220
So I can pull up the page number, no residential in this portion of the small area plan.

2169
03:15:30,480 --> 03:15:35,960
So it's page 25, the small area plan, it has pie graphs on it, and it noted existing

2170
03:15:35,960 --> 03:15:38,760
mix of uses and proposed mix of uses.

2171
03:15:39,340 --> 03:15:45,200
This portion, are you talking about the old town Fairfax, old town Fairfax, small area plan.

2172
03:15:45,540 --> 03:15:47,200
And there's no residential in that area.

2173
03:15:47,200 --> 03:15:53,800
That is what the small area planned document identified on page 25 with a pie chart.

2174
03:15:54,420 --> 03:16:02,120
So in the plan was completed in 2020, there wasn't any, but now on page 8 of my staff report,

2175
03:16:02,400 --> 03:16:11,100
I have the same table that you saw in my last presentation, so there has been plans approved since then.

2176
03:16:11,100 --> 03:16:17,820
Yeah, I think the Planning Commission commented on 2,000 bedrooms in that area, so some such figure.

2177
03:16:18,100 --> 03:16:19,520
I'm just a little surprised to hear that.

2178
03:16:20,000 --> 03:16:26,100
It's my neighborhood, so, you know, I am familiar with a lot of residences there.

2179
03:16:27,460 --> 03:16:30,580
The, maybe to go back just just to be a little clear.

2180
03:16:33,240 --> 03:16:37,480
And again, I got the presentation, and I noticed something in it that said,

2181
03:16:37,480 --> 03:16:49,160
The smaller airplane, I think it was calls for 1250 units and it's my understanding this sort of goes back to the earlier discussion this evening that that

2182
03:16:49,160 --> 03:16:55,280
1250 is a potential undermarket conditions, but it's not a goal.

2183
03:16:55,680 --> 03:16:58,660
Right, yep, that's just an estimate from the smaller airplane.

2184
03:16:59,300 --> 03:17:04,540
Okay, so it's not really calling for that, it's just saying that's a possibility undermarket conditions.

2185
03:17:04,540 --> 03:17:07,600
It also is not requiring six stories.

2186
03:17:08,040 --> 03:17:10,280
It is permitting up two six stories.

2187
03:17:10,700 --> 03:17:14,000
So there's flexibility around that.

2188
03:17:15,340 --> 03:17:18,060
Okay, so then the other thing and not to be totally

2189
03:17:18,060 --> 03:17:19,900
in that picky here, but the guiding principles

2190
03:17:20,700 --> 03:17:22,780
redevelopment, I think are really focused

2191
03:17:23,840 --> 03:17:27,680
on the kinds of design considerations

2192
03:17:27,680 --> 03:17:30,360
that you've brought to the site.

2193
03:17:30,580 --> 03:17:33,440
And I think you've been working really hard on that.

2194
03:17:33,440 --> 03:17:39,460
It's clear, but I'm just wondering, I mean, we're acting as a body here to make a public policy

2195
03:17:39,460 --> 03:17:45,480
decision and are driven by a community interest and public interest in this and I'm

2196
03:17:45,480 --> 03:17:50,800
wondering, are there perhaps this is for staff, but there ought to be another set of principles

2197
03:17:50,800 --> 03:17:56,260
here or a principle anyway related to the public interest and how would you express that

2198
03:17:56,260 --> 03:18:01,980
in terms of how this meets as a matter of principle public interest to put this particular

2199
03:18:01,980 --> 03:18:07,400
proposal in place and I'm particularly noting there's been a lot of concern about

2200
03:18:07,400 --> 03:18:10,860
heightened density there's also been a lot of concern about the shift here towards

2201
03:18:10,860 --> 03:18:16,600
residential versus commercial and cities overall need for expanding commercial and

2202
03:18:16,600 --> 03:18:20,540
light of that what what is the principle here in terms of of the public

2203
03:18:20,540 --> 03:18:29,300
interest for this so this shopping center has been not the city's crown jewel for

2204
03:18:29,300 --> 03:18:35,300
decades. And so we think the public interest will be represented by redoing this shopping center

2205
03:18:35,300 --> 03:18:40,580
and creating it to be an active and vibrant community with strong pedestrian in particular

2206
03:18:40,580 --> 03:18:47,040
connections through it, lots of new open spaces, and wider and improved street presence

2207
03:18:47,040 --> 03:18:50,520
along to central drives to the city University and Blinnon.

2208
03:18:51,160 --> 03:18:58,260
So we certainly hear a lot, there's been a lot of comment on this. You know, people love

2209
03:18:58,260 --> 03:19:04,720
the grocery store, et cetera, I think the thing that is being raised that perhaps raises

2210
03:19:04,720 --> 03:19:09,880
inconsistency with public interest is the heightened density here, and the aesthetics

2211
03:19:09,880 --> 03:19:14,840
have come a long way, but still this is a lot. In this particular spot, there is a lot of

2212
03:19:14,840 --> 03:19:19,720
development here, already, a lot of residential development. So I just want to acknowledge that

2213
03:19:19,720 --> 03:19:24,260
I think we've all heard that there is a lot of concern about that, and it's really been

2214
03:19:24,260 --> 03:19:27,940
raising the question of whether there's some modification that could address the concerns

2215
03:19:27,940 --> 03:19:32,920
that have been raised about that, I recognize there have been some changes here, y'all work

2216
03:19:32,920 --> 03:19:40,100
pretty hard on it, but the first blush it looks very similar in scale to the proposal we've

2217
03:19:40,100 --> 03:19:44,540
been seeing for a while, so and I'm hearing that from others in the community who are seeing

2218
03:19:44,540 --> 03:19:50,920
this in the general reaction is essentially the same while there have been some modifications

2219
03:19:51,780 --> 03:19:56,700
involved in this and improvements. It is essentially the same proposal as originally presented

2220
03:19:56,700 --> 03:19:59,960
And that is a concern to a lot of people.

2221
03:20:00,300 --> 03:20:10,920
I'd look forward to spending more time with this and getting a chance to digest this a little bit more, but I would hope that there would yet be a way for us to address some of those concerns.

2222
03:20:11,700 --> 03:20:21,280
I also think that the Phase 2 thing, it is very helpful to have made additional commitments around Phase 2, but they're certainly not guaranteed.

2223
03:20:22,440 --> 03:20:29,280
And I'm not sure we're yet at the stage where we've seen a layout for what this area would look like under a fully developed approach here.

2224
03:20:29,280 --> 03:20:32,480
You know, that was a recommendation slash concern of staff.

2225
03:20:33,300 --> 03:20:37,140
I'm interested in looking further to see what extent that's actually been addressed.

2226
03:20:37,820 --> 03:20:44,840
But it would seem to me it's a valid request to have a closer understanding of what a full

2227
03:20:44,840 --> 03:20:51,280
build out would this look like with this place would look like as it particularly pays attention

2228
03:20:51,280 --> 03:20:53,260
to commercial and restate retail development.

2229
03:20:54,220 --> 03:20:55,340
Thank you.

2230
03:20:56,960 --> 03:20:57,640
So

2231
03:21:01,040 --> 03:21:08,820
there is a great deal of evidence that you have been listening and integrating what you've been hearing into this next iteration of your proposal.

2232
03:21:10,100 --> 03:21:19,200
I want to echo some of the positives that people have been talking about the green spaces and those kinds of things.

2233
03:21:19,200 --> 03:21:30,140
And add to that list that you also listened in terms of concerns about connectivity and the roadway spaces as well as the pedestrian spaces.

2234
03:21:32,020 --> 03:21:35,960
I do think that, and I don't have a question, many questions have been answered.

2235
03:21:36,360 --> 03:21:47,360
I do think that you are making an attempt to balance what's needed in terms of development against what would happen if you did nothing.

2236
03:21:47,360 --> 03:21:55,520
Right, and I want to highlight what you were starting to say about that being the public policy of it not being the Crown Jewel and

2237
03:21:55,520 --> 03:22:02,580
Really looking at how we're uplifting the whole activity area. I get the concerns about

2238
03:22:03,800 --> 03:22:11,520
About density, those are definitely an ongoing balancing act and yet as has been mentioned

2239
03:22:11,520 --> 03:22:17,220
I think by the mayor several times, you know just in terms of having people near the spaces to support

2240
03:22:17,360 --> 03:22:21,080
the retail aspects, I think is an important contribution.

2241
03:22:22,120 --> 03:22:23,920
Something has to be done there.

2242
03:22:24,500 --> 03:22:28,420
And I think that every attempt has been made by your organization,

2243
03:22:29,160 --> 03:22:32,320
which has invested in this city,

2244
03:22:33,240 --> 03:22:35,680
which at that is another point I want to highlight that you have

2245
03:22:35,680 --> 03:22:37,420
made other investments in this city.

2246
03:22:38,200 --> 03:22:40,320
This is, I try not to look at things in isolation.

2247
03:22:40,820 --> 03:22:44,700
This is yet another investment that you're making in our city

2248
03:22:44,700 --> 03:22:49,900
to kind of collectively elevate our city.

2249
03:22:50,620 --> 03:22:52,640
So I appreciate the work that you've done.

2250
03:22:52,960 --> 03:22:54,340
I appreciate listening.

2251
03:22:54,820 --> 03:22:59,080
That's evident to me doing nothing is not an option.

2252
03:22:59,440 --> 03:23:01,660
And I think I supported this project

2253
03:23:01,660 --> 03:23:03,120
in its prior iteration.

2254
03:23:04,220 --> 03:23:06,280
So with the advancements that you've made

2255
03:23:06,280 --> 03:23:09,240
and showing once again that you're willing to listen

2256
03:23:09,240 --> 03:23:13,520
to the feedback, I appreciate the changes that you've made.

2257
03:23:13,520 --> 03:23:14,800
And I just want to highlight that.

2258
03:23:14,860 --> 03:23:19,200
And again, for me, no development on that,

2259
03:23:19,200 --> 03:23:22,500
very central spot in our city is an option

2260
03:23:22,500 --> 03:23:26,500
that I think goes against proper policy for our city.

2261
03:23:26,580 --> 03:23:27,680
Thank you.

2262
03:23:30,420 --> 03:23:32,380
Other comments, Council Member Peterson?

2263
03:23:32,780 --> 03:23:33,520
Yeah, just on the score.

2264
03:23:33,640 --> 03:23:35,260
I don't think I'm hearing from anybody.

2265
03:23:36,840 --> 03:23:40,680
There's a preference for zero redevelopment here.

2266
03:23:40,760 --> 03:23:44,080
I think everybody, like many other spots in the city,

2267
03:23:44,080 --> 03:23:46,520
virtually everybody is interested in

2268
03:23:46,520 --> 03:23:49,120
that the question is how and that's really

2269
03:23:49,120 --> 03:23:50,920
where the feedback has been.

2270
03:23:51,700 --> 03:23:55,280
So again, I would hope that we would be able to focus

2271
03:23:55,280 --> 03:23:58,960
a little bit more on the fundamentals of what

2272
03:23:59,860 --> 03:24:03,920
that question really involves from the community in terms

2273
03:24:03,920 --> 03:24:05,100
of what happens here.

2274
03:24:05,880 --> 03:24:06,100
Thanks.

2275
03:24:07,240 --> 03:24:08,140
Can I just remember Amis?

2276
03:24:09,140 --> 03:24:12,880
Last comment I'll make and it's a quick one just because

2277
03:24:12,880 --> 03:24:19,800
I see some similarities to it and a lot of it's dependent on phase one getting approved and then phase two ideally happening,

2278
03:24:20,660 --> 03:24:26,640
but that phase two location does give me elements of Fairfax quarter and I do appreciate that.

2279
03:24:27,380 --> 03:24:28,840
Other questions or comments?

2280
03:24:30,420 --> 03:24:31,580
I like the project.

2281
03:24:32,720 --> 03:24:36,220
I've been looking at the Safeway now since 1981.

2282
03:24:37,380 --> 03:24:44,780
And it is right in the center of our city and when we talk about getting feedback from the public that is the point of having a public hearing.

2283
03:24:45,660 --> 03:24:51,960
And I do expect that we will hear from residents who have a vested interest including the people across the street who are residents.

2284
03:24:52,400 --> 03:24:55,740
But I hope we have a robust feedback from our businesses.

2285
03:24:56,140 --> 03:24:59,980
I hope our businesses step up to say what it means to have three.

2286
03:25:00,000 --> 03:25:08,260
360 units, right next door, or right behind their buildings. The flacet university was our first

2287
03:25:08,260 --> 03:25:13,380
four-way into having housing in the downtown, which is great, but those students aren't there 12 months

2288
03:25:13,380 --> 03:25:21,060
out of the year. So our summer time doesn't look nearly as active as our fall and our spring. And so I hope

2289
03:25:21,060 --> 03:25:28,280
our businesses will come out to talk about the economic impact of having housing in this location.

2290
03:25:28,860 --> 03:25:38,440
We need to hear from everyone and I do think that is why we have a public hearing and I do want to acknowledge the fact that you didn't have to come back and give us another chance

2291
03:25:38,440 --> 03:25:46,640
but you did and you incorporated so much of what you heard including the people from the news who said I don't like the color.

2292
03:25:46,640 --> 03:26:00,080
I think you have, you have done your best to negotiate what works financially and from a property ownership standpoint what works for combined properties.

2293
03:26:00,840 --> 03:26:10,840
Again, I agree with Council Member Hardy Chandler. You've been deeply invested in our city for six decades and we appreciate the fact that you keep improving the properties that you own here.

2294
03:26:10,840 --> 03:26:15,980
a long-term relationship and I want to acknowledge that we appreciate all the work

2295
03:26:15,980 --> 03:26:20,060
that's gone into this and I do think there is an opportunity through public

2296
03:26:20,060 --> 03:26:24,080
hearing for people to come and give us more information on this project.

2297
03:26:24,720 --> 03:26:26,000
But I do like the project.

2298
03:26:26,400 --> 03:26:32,220
I believe it is in the best interest long-term of the city to redevelop this

2299
03:26:32,220 --> 03:26:35,600
piece of property so close to our downtown.

2300
03:26:36,360 --> 03:26:39,480
It is just it's something has to happen there.

2301
03:26:39,480 --> 03:26:43,840
So, thank you so much for the presentation, and we look forward to seeing you again.

2302
03:26:46,630 --> 03:26:47,110
Missionary.

2303
03:26:49,110 --> 03:26:56,930
Okay, I will now reconvene the regular meeting and kick it over to our city manager, Mr. Alexander.

2304
03:26:57,970 --> 03:27:05,310
Thank you, Mayor Council, as you know, after this meeting, we'll take us into a break for a month.

2305
03:27:05,310 --> 03:27:13,510
And then we will be back for a robust work session on September 1st, reminder that it's scheduled to start at 4 o'clock.

2306
03:27:13,830 --> 03:27:27,370
You will see a number of items on that work session for a reason, and we certainly wanted to try to do as much work shopping as we can on those sessions.

2307
03:27:27,370 --> 03:27:35,730
So you'll see pre-application briefings listed there for 32.501M,

2308
03:27:36,430 --> 03:27:42,730
10.5.60 Main Street, and 35.70 Chain Bridge Road.

2309
03:27:43,770 --> 03:27:47,690
We will also bring back citywide level service

2310
03:27:47,930 --> 03:27:52,010
and dynamic capital impact modeling for discussion.

2311
03:27:52,010 --> 03:28:00,730
We will make a full way into our legislative program and then we will have a discussion which

2312
03:28:00,730 --> 03:28:05,970
you'll see on consent later regarding the reappropriation of general operating capital

2313
03:28:05,970 --> 03:28:11,490
and enterprise funds carrying over to 2027 from 2026.

2314
03:28:11,490 --> 03:28:18,430
So, again, that'll be a pretty robust work session on the first.

2315
03:28:19,190 --> 03:28:27,530
Looking ahead to the A, on consent, you will see construction contract for a university-drive

2316
03:28:27,530 --> 03:28:36,230
bike lanes and consideration of resolution to cancel the V dot project listed there.

2317
03:28:36,950 --> 03:28:40,850
And then, as I mentioned, you'll see the introduction or consideration of the resolution

2318
03:28:40,850 --> 03:28:45,330
for the reappropriation that would have been workshops on the meeting prior.

2319
03:28:46,170 --> 03:28:54,330
Also, items not requiring public hearing will be the consideration of adopting the code of ethics on the eighth.

2320
03:28:55,110 --> 03:28:57,550
Looking ahead to finishing out September,

2321
03:28:59,610 --> 03:29:07,950
public hearing and council action on a redevelopment of existing office into 14 townhouses at Mantua,

2322
03:29:07,950 --> 03:29:15,690
94.95, Silver King Court, and then if needed a public hearing and council action on the

2323
03:29:15,690 --> 03:29:21,850
resolution for reappropriation on that night, and that would wrap up, September, October

2324
03:29:21,850 --> 03:29:26,450
would be our second work session starting at 4 o'clock.

2325
03:29:27,770 --> 03:29:31,770
Happy dancer and the other questions and items that we've discussed or otherwise are ahead

2326
03:29:31,770 --> 03:29:32,650
of us.

2327
03:29:33,470 --> 03:29:37,530
All right, questions on future, the Council Member Pro.

2328
03:29:38,490 --> 03:29:41,770
Did just two questions, I think.

2329
03:29:42,670 --> 03:29:44,350
The University of July of Bike Lanes.

2330
03:29:45,250 --> 03:29:47,570
That's the same combination we just had a few minutes ago.

2331
03:29:48,030 --> 03:29:49,810
Can we get a refresher on that?

2332
03:29:50,130 --> 03:29:52,050
Did we see that as this Councillor?

2333
03:29:52,270 --> 03:29:53,290
Was that a previous Councillor?

2334
03:29:53,510 --> 03:29:55,990
It might just totally forgetting that.

2335
03:29:56,130 --> 03:29:57,930
We've talked about it for a while.

2336
03:29:58,490 --> 03:29:59,970
I know, but did we do a recent public...

2337
03:30:00,020 --> 03:30:15,100
I mean, I'm sure that was closed on a while ago since we're at the consideration phase, but I'm just really wondering and in light of the ten foot sidewalks that they're considering is there maybe a better solution to a shared use path there.

2338
03:30:15,620 --> 03:30:24,220
Well, what we'll do is come back with some information generally about our plan and more information specifically about this ahead of this meeting.

2339
03:30:24,360 --> 03:30:26,140
Well, ahead of this meeting, so you have that information.

2340
03:30:26,140 --> 03:30:29,320
Yeah, I mean, we don't really have a lot of time because I know we have the August recess.

2341
03:30:29,400 --> 03:30:35,960
I'm certainly open to receiving information in August, but, okay, and I will also do my

2342
03:30:35,960 --> 03:30:39,640
due diligence and go back and try to check that out.

2343
03:30:41,580 --> 03:30:46,460
My second question in this just a logistical one, is that we have a meeting on October 13th,

2344
03:30:46,520 --> 03:30:53,800
which I think is the final day of the VML conference, are we, is it, is there any actual

2345
03:30:53,800 --> 03:30:58,260
conference that day and then we're coming home or it's only half day. So they

2346
03:30:58,260 --> 03:31:03,960
wrap up about noon. Okay. So we should be home in time then for a few. Okay. Perfect. Thank you.

2347
03:31:05,120 --> 03:31:10,040
Count's room for Ames. Just one quick follow-up question for September 22nd. The

2348
03:31:10,040 --> 03:31:15,640
Highlands have been to a project. If I'm remembering that correct. I remember gosh. I don't

2349
03:31:15,640 --> 03:31:21,580
know if that was a pre-application that we did or was it a post-submission? I mean I think that was

2350
03:31:21,580 --> 03:31:25,760
last year if I recall correctly and that's the one where we have the conversation about whether

2351
03:31:25,760 --> 03:31:30,660
to keep the tree landscaping there or they wanted to put in a park if I recall.

2352
03:31:32,520 --> 03:31:39,120
Yes, I believe you are correct that application is now going to the planning commission.

2353
03:31:40,760 --> 03:31:47,300
There will be a communication to each of the members of council and the mayor for individual

2354
03:31:47,300 --> 03:31:53,740
meetings to give you an update on that project from the development team, and then any questions

2355
03:31:53,740 --> 03:31:54,580
you may have.

2356
03:31:54,900 --> 03:31:59,200
Thank you just because it feels like it's been a pretty significant gap in time between

2357
03:31:59,200 --> 03:32:04,200
when we spoke with them again, I think it was last year versus this coming up in September.

2358
03:32:04,840 --> 03:32:05,640
So thank you.

2359
03:32:05,880 --> 03:32:06,920
Yes, sir.

2360
03:32:08,000 --> 03:32:14,000
Other questions, Councilmember Hall, are we going to talk about the buck slip at another

2361
03:32:14,000 --> 03:32:15,540
time, or is this the right time?

2362
03:32:15,540 --> 03:32:18,460
We can, I had it on the report out so I can kill two birds.

2363
03:32:18,500 --> 03:32:19,660
We can talk about it then, that's fine.

2364
03:32:19,880 --> 03:32:20,320
Thank you.

2365
03:32:22,560 --> 03:32:23,600
Councillor member Peterson.

2366
03:32:25,040 --> 03:32:34,460
Can you clarify this purpose and scope of the citywide level of service and dynamic capital impact model?

2367
03:32:35,520 --> 03:32:39,060
I want to set expectations for what we will be receiving.

2368
03:32:39,200 --> 03:32:44,580
What is the actual purpose and substantive application of that?

2369
03:32:44,580 --> 03:32:50,160
Yeah, we previously, I think, presented in a work session to Council, but I'll go to the

2370
03:32:50,160 --> 03:32:52,260
Volk Pen and ask for what to come up again.

2371
03:32:55,690 --> 03:33:00,730
And this would be an update to that previous work session that Council held, which was

2372
03:33:00,730 --> 03:33:09,970
more of an introduction to the project and a review of what the effort would be undertaking

2373
03:33:09,970 --> 03:33:14,150
and what factors would be analyzed as part of the project.

2374
03:33:14,150 --> 03:33:19,250
But this is to come back and share results of that analysis.

2375
03:33:21,310 --> 03:33:30,390
It would not be a moment where we would ask for counsel approval in terms of considering

2376
03:33:30,390 --> 03:33:34,290
proper policy or anything of that nature.

2377
03:33:34,470 --> 03:33:40,430
We would anticipate that based upon this discussion, the counsel would give staff feedback

2378
03:33:40,430 --> 03:33:47,010
on those results and whether there's a desire to move forward with considering policies in terms

2379
03:33:47,010 --> 03:33:56,530
of level of impact to various city infrastructure. And so that would be a future discussion.

2380
03:33:56,830 --> 03:34:01,070
And so this will be to share the results to give a sense of what those impacts are, how those

2381
03:34:01,070 --> 03:34:07,590
numbers calculate, and whether there's a desire to continue to move forward to look at policies

2382
03:34:07,590 --> 03:34:10,950
that would be part of the city's development review process.

2383
03:34:13,730 --> 03:34:17,350
Let me understand if I might a little bit more clearly.

2384
03:34:18,270 --> 03:34:24,230
Is this providing guidance and benchmarks related to

2385
03:34:24,230 --> 03:34:24,950
Prophors?

2386
03:34:25,810 --> 03:34:26,210
Potentially.

2387
03:34:28,390 --> 03:34:31,170
So potentially that is this

2388
03:34:31,170 --> 03:34:34,670
design to be a

2389
03:34:35,290 --> 03:34:38,610
regulatory impact or public policy impact.

2390
03:34:38,610 --> 03:34:48,610
assessment tool? It is a development impact assessment tool. And so the team is analyzed what

2391
03:34:49,390 --> 03:34:57,510
expenditures are associated with development proposals, what that means in terms of the city infrastructure.

2392
03:35:00,000 --> 03:35:07,200
Whether or not there are, you know, what those financial impacts are. And so, a level of service

2393
03:35:07,200 --> 03:35:19,320
study would provide to the city on a per project basis, what those impacts would be to things

2394
03:35:19,320 --> 03:35:26,700
like Parks and Recreation Facilities, School Facilities, Transportation, Infrastructure, Public

2395
03:35:26,700 --> 03:35:35,300
safety infrastructure, and that analysis could guide the city toward a proper policy for

2396
03:35:35,300 --> 03:35:42,040
all of those items, you know, what the approach has been to this point has been those have

2397
03:35:42,040 --> 03:35:48,340
been negotiated on a case by case basis, and not to get too deep into the proper thing. I think

2398
03:35:48,340 --> 03:35:53,180
we've talked a little bit about that before, but the Commonwealth of Virginia in 2016 rewrote

2399
03:35:53,180 --> 03:36:00,200
rules in the state for Prophors which severely limited localities ability to negotiate for

2400
03:36:00,200 --> 03:36:05,780
Prophors since that time we've instituted some measures that have given us a little

2401
03:36:05,780 --> 03:36:13,880
bit more flexibility to do that and so we've seen the potential for Prophors to be offered

2402
03:36:13,880 --> 03:36:19,320
particularly in our activity centers because the Code of Virginia carves out special provisions

2403
03:36:19,320 --> 03:36:25,620
for areas covered by small area plants. And so that gives us some more ability to negotiate

2404
03:36:25,620 --> 03:36:31,460
these things. What we would like to do is be a little bit more systematic in how we do

2405
03:36:31,460 --> 03:36:38,660
that. And so it's not an unknown to the council. It's not an unknown to a property owner or

2406
03:36:38,660 --> 03:36:44,040
developer coming in as to what those expectations are. But that will be totally at the discretion

2407
03:36:44,040 --> 03:36:50,940
of the council. This first discussion is to merely share the results of that analysis if the

2408
03:36:50,940 --> 03:36:56,660
direction from the council from that point forward is yes staff we would like you to to look

2409
03:36:56,660 --> 03:37:01,480
at creating some policies that again could come back to the council and we consider whether that's

2410
03:37:01,480 --> 03:37:09,660
something that the council wants to adopt. That's what we'll do. Is this an accounting tool so that

2411
03:37:09,660 --> 03:37:16,760
know when we're looking at a project from an accounting standpoint, what the outlays, outlays

2412
03:37:16,760 --> 03:37:22,740
and expenditures are for a particular decision we make, is that incorrect accounting

2413
03:37:22,740 --> 03:37:24,080
on who's on who's...

2414
03:37:24,080 --> 03:37:24,920
Citywide accounting.

2415
03:37:25,140 --> 03:37:29,700
I mean, services and infrastructure from an accounting standpoint, the public accounting standpoint,

2416
03:37:29,820 --> 03:37:33,340
what are we spending as a consequence of a decision on a development?

2417
03:37:33,360 --> 03:37:35,260
Is that the question that this is answering?

2418
03:37:35,340 --> 03:37:38,820
Not necessarily, that's something that the city does currently.

2419
03:37:38,820 --> 03:37:45,380
So the city does a fiscal impact analysis reach one of the significant projects that come forward.

2420
03:37:45,880 --> 03:37:56,920
To the council and that's part of your staff report that you see at a public hearing that accounts for anticipated revenues and expenditures for any development.

2421
03:37:56,920 --> 03:38:07,400
And looking at the city's budget and what those costs are to the city and then in terms of the development proposal, what revenues that we anticipate coming in.

2422
03:38:07,400 --> 03:38:10,180
So that's a part of what we do today.

2423
03:38:11,300 --> 03:38:20,140
And that looks at city costs kind of across the entirety of the budget.

2424
03:38:20,140 --> 03:38:25,100
The level of service would look at physical impacts,

2425
03:38:25,260 --> 03:38:27,380
would look at infrastructure impacts,

2426
03:38:27,820 --> 03:38:29,640
things that the city can potentially get

2427
03:38:29,640 --> 03:38:34,040
Prophors for, City can't get Prophors for operational costs.

2428
03:38:34,660 --> 03:38:37,940
Look out, it can get Prophors for physical infrastructure

2429
03:38:37,940 --> 03:38:41,520
and expansion of capacity of physical infrastructure.

2430
03:38:42,140 --> 03:38:45,980
That's associated with the development that's being proposed.

2431
03:38:45,980 --> 03:38:57,680
And so the level of services looks more at the infrastructure side of the equation, not so much the overall fiscal impact, but that is part of what the council receives as well.

2432
03:38:58,180 --> 03:39:06,240
Is this somewhere where it already is scoped and we can look at its current status in terms of what it's covering.

2433
03:39:07,000 --> 03:39:12,320
Is there something that I could read, for instance, or anybody else could read about the scope of this?

2434
03:39:12,320 --> 03:39:19,840
We can certainly share the materials that we brought forward previously.

2435
03:39:20,600 --> 03:39:27,000
We don't have necessarily have the materials that will be presented in September ready to

2436
03:39:27,000 --> 03:39:31,880
bring forward yet, but we'll share those as soon as they're available as well.

2437
03:39:32,040 --> 03:39:32,960
Well, that would be a real helpful.

2438
03:39:33,080 --> 03:39:39,100
I mean, I think the general thing is on the February 14th, I think we had a discussion about

2439
03:39:39,100 --> 03:39:47,040
development land use applications and the city manager listed out a whole series of impacts

2440
03:39:48,140 --> 03:39:57,320
that could and typically are included in assessments of the full suite of impacts associated

2441
03:39:57,320 --> 03:39:59,980
with an development or land use application.

2442
03:40:00,000 --> 03:40:13,900
Safety, crime risk, you name it right down the list here. And that sounds like that, you know, it's just sort of socioeconomic impacts, public, public impacts here.

2443
03:40:14,120 --> 03:40:25,420
That's, this would provide only the fiscal dimensions of that with respect to services and infrastructure, but it's not, this is really not.

2444
03:40:25,420 --> 03:40:36,420
What impact are we able to determine in terms of the effect of these decisions on elevated crime risk and the response that we'll have to, you know,

2445
03:40:37,220 --> 03:40:41,400
engineer in terms of that things like that? Is that a fair understanding?

2446
03:40:42,440 --> 03:40:47,180
Okay, so there's a broader piece of this that this really is not looking at.

2447
03:40:47,460 --> 03:40:54,600
I would like to see if I might, and I'm sure everybody would, what that is because I think there is a broader question mark

2448
03:40:54,600 --> 03:40:58,820
about how we assess from a public interest standpoint,

2449
03:41:00,180 --> 03:41:03,260
the impacts and the opportunities associated with these decisions

2450
03:41:03,260 --> 03:41:04,040
we make.

2451
03:41:04,540 --> 03:41:07,400
And it would be great for that to be as inclusive as possible.

2452
03:41:07,940 --> 03:41:10,920
So I think we send you what we have up at this point.

2453
03:41:11,080 --> 03:41:15,160
I'd also say at this point also that we'll offer each of you

2454
03:41:15,160 --> 03:41:17,560
an opportunity to have a conversation with the head of the work

2455
03:41:17,560 --> 03:41:20,620
session, which will benefit the conversation at the work session.

2456
03:41:20,620 --> 03:41:28,040
That would be great, and it would be great if there could be, with respect to the fiscal impact analysis that we do now,

2457
03:41:28,740 --> 03:41:33,660
a little bit of transparency in terms of what actually in that, I would love to see that.

2458
03:41:36,320 --> 03:41:40,420
Any other questions or comments on the future meeting?

2459
03:41:42,400 --> 03:41:46,880
Seeing none, we will go to the managers report out.

2460
03:41:46,880 --> 03:41:48,340
Thank you, Mayor Council.

2461
03:41:49,400 --> 03:41:54,060
As was mentioned earlier, we did send you this morning,

2462
03:41:54,840 --> 03:41:58,440
let's call it in Buckslip, informational item,

2463
03:41:59,080 --> 03:42:00,540
but because it's a size of a dollar

2464
03:42:00,540 --> 03:42:03,740
that we would like to maybe include

2465
03:42:03,740 --> 03:42:05,580
in the personal property tax bills

2466
03:42:05,580 --> 03:42:07,520
that will be mailed out in September.

2467
03:42:08,340 --> 03:42:10,000
The idea is to give us some more transparency

2468
03:42:10,000 --> 03:42:13,960
and information on how our general fund dollars are spent

2469
03:42:13,960 --> 03:42:15,380
and investments are made

2470
03:42:15,380 --> 03:42:22,540
with an operating in capital. We provided you an example and the timeliness issue really is one of

2471
03:42:23,160 --> 03:42:28,280
I know the treasurer's office wanted to know we had consensus from council before we coordinated

2472
03:42:28,280 --> 03:42:35,320
with them in order to push that out and so this is an opportunity to get some feedback from you

2473
03:42:35,320 --> 03:42:43,440
on that item so that we can quickly turn it around and again coordinate the process of getting that out to

2474
03:42:43,440 --> 03:42:49,340
residents so happy to take any feedback from you on what you saw and what you might want

2475
03:42:49,340 --> 03:42:53,060
to see out of that understanding. It's it's this big so.

2476
03:42:53,840 --> 03:42:56,220
Councilmember Hall and then Councilmember Hardy Chandler.

2477
03:42:56,800 --> 03:43:00,940
Thank you. I know I've been asking for this for a while and I think actually with the interim.

2478
03:43:01,320 --> 03:43:06,640
So I'm really really happy to see that this is moving forward. I really just have two suggestions.

2479
03:43:07,380 --> 03:43:09,980
One is maybe just add a thank you for paying your taxes.

2480
03:43:10,740 --> 03:43:23,560
And also on the back side of it, there was an area on the bottom right where it had the percentages of certain things, and there was a bit of an area available.

2481
03:43:23,920 --> 03:43:35,080
I'm wondering if maybe we could add a QR code that would direct people to the fiscal year 2027 budget, and just say, you know, here's a link to this.

2482
03:43:35,080 --> 03:43:46,100
Hopefully that won't add too much extra effort, but that was just my suggestion to, you know, kind of here's the basic information and then if you want more information here, it is nice easy ready to go.

2483
03:43:46,760 --> 03:43:47,980
Thank you.

2484
03:43:48,500 --> 03:43:49,560
Councilmember Harder-General.

2485
03:43:50,380 --> 03:43:53,180
I think I responded that I absolutely support this.

2486
03:43:53,200 --> 03:43:58,920
I think the visual helps people understand that it's not going into a black hole.

2487
03:43:59,120 --> 03:44:02,320
It really is going to services and how those services are divided.

2488
03:44:02,320 --> 03:44:04,280
So I absolutely support that.

2489
03:44:04,500 --> 03:44:07,240
Is there any question of the cost of adding that

2490
03:44:07,240 --> 03:44:09,080
to the mailing of the bills?

2491
03:44:09,320 --> 03:44:11,120
No, we just wanted to go ahead and make sure

2492
03:44:11,120 --> 03:44:12,620
that we get consensus for council

2493
03:44:12,620 --> 03:44:16,020
before you approach the treasury again on this process.

2494
03:44:16,440 --> 03:44:18,040
Well, I think it'll be very beneficial

2495
03:44:18,040 --> 03:44:20,200
to all of the residents of the city.

2496
03:44:20,360 --> 03:44:21,720
So thank you very much.

2497
03:44:22,760 --> 03:44:23,720
Councilmember McCullan?

2498
03:44:25,460 --> 03:44:26,720
Yeah, I love this idea.

2499
03:44:27,060 --> 03:44:29,100
Ever since Councilmember Hall bought it for,

2500
03:44:29,220 --> 03:44:30,220
I think this is great.

2501
03:44:30,320 --> 03:44:31,240
Thank you so much.

2502
03:44:32,720 --> 03:44:35,040
Any other feedback, Council Member Petersen?

2503
03:44:35,220 --> 03:44:44,060
Well, I think this a separate thing, it kind of gets to the last conversation, but it'd be great to kind of boil this down to a communications format.

2504
03:44:44,700 --> 03:44:57,200
Is every time we make a decision here, it has, well, not every time, but very often it has out-of-pocket expense implications on residents, and I'd like to use the term neighborhood math.

2505
03:44:57,300 --> 03:44:59,960
People need to understand if you do this. What's coming out of my back pocket?

2506
03:45:00,000 --> 03:45:17,440
Next year. And it would be great to be regular about lifting that information out of the decisions we make so that people who are tuning in can now, and we need to invite other people to tune into that.

2507
03:45:17,800 --> 03:45:29,060
So I don't think this is exactly the same thing, but I think they're related. I would say also it's not just a matter when we make decisions of the out-of-pocket expenses that people are facing as a consequence.

2508
03:45:29,060 --> 03:45:34,840
But just a reminder, we're also helping people save, reduce those out at a pocket

2509
03:45:34,840 --> 03:45:35,200
expenses.

2510
03:45:35,640 --> 03:45:40,640
We've done energy, you know, clean energy things that are actually cost savings things.

2511
03:45:41,500 --> 03:45:45,840
And then we've done things that proactively are designed to increase revenues, commercial

2512
03:45:45,840 --> 03:45:47,540
economic household, et cetera.

2513
03:45:48,100 --> 03:45:53,540
It just would be good for a communication standpoint for a resident to know when we make decisions

2514
03:45:53,540 --> 03:45:56,200
what's the plus and the minus, you know, that's going on here.

2515
03:45:56,200 --> 03:46:01,280
And again, that has to be in terms they can understand and what they typically understand

2516
03:46:01,280 --> 03:46:01,760
very well.

2517
03:46:01,880 --> 03:46:04,320
So what's coming out of my back pocket this year?

2518
03:46:05,840 --> 03:46:10,940
So I know we don't have that exactly and that may be ground for further creative thinking,

2519
03:46:11,140 --> 03:46:12,740
but I just wanted to suggest it.

2520
03:46:15,980 --> 03:46:16,780
Any other comments?

2521
03:46:17,580 --> 03:46:21,080
I think we have consensus that the idea is good.

2522
03:46:21,440 --> 03:46:25,340
It is helpful for people to visualize where their dollar goes.

2523
03:46:25,340 --> 03:46:33,300
So, I think you've gotten feedback in other than that, I think we're all nodding in agreement that this is a go.

2524
03:46:33,740 --> 03:46:34,460
Thank you.

2525
03:46:36,120 --> 03:46:37,520
Anything else, Mr. City Manager?

2526
03:46:38,720 --> 03:46:39,180
That's your thank you.

2527
03:46:39,180 --> 03:46:39,880
That's it for you.

2528
03:46:39,940 --> 03:46:42,040
Okay, then we will do the council comments.

2529
03:46:42,440 --> 03:46:43,300
Council member Amis?

2530
03:46:45,360 --> 03:46:45,820
Thank you.

2531
03:46:46,440 --> 03:46:51,460
So looking over to Melissa, she wanted to quickly go over the BACs and setting up that for August.

2532
03:46:51,480 --> 03:46:51,840
I believe.

2533
03:46:52,620 --> 03:46:53,120
Thank you.

2534
03:46:53,360 --> 03:46:54,400
Council member Amis.

2535
03:46:54,400 --> 03:47:03,400
So, each of you have a printout of the first two pages or vacancies that's going to be advertised in the August city scene.

2536
03:47:03,780 --> 03:47:11,900
As you see on the second page, it's the HCab 17 positions that are coming up for reappointment or appointments.

2537
03:47:13,220 --> 03:47:18,760
On the third page is the applicants I have on deck that would be ready to be interviewed.

2538
03:47:19,600 --> 03:47:22,080
There are 20 people listed on here.

2539
03:47:22,080 --> 03:47:27,180
And I'm bringing this forward because a council member had brought this up last week about

2540
03:47:27,180 --> 03:47:29,940
maybe doing an August interview night.

2541
03:47:30,300 --> 03:47:34,920
So I want to get feedback if there'd be a consensus or at least four council members

2542
03:47:34,920 --> 03:47:36,820
that would be available in August.

2543
03:47:38,380 --> 03:47:43,560
And I would say either we keep it on a Tuesday, either the 11th, 18th or the 25th.

2544
03:47:43,680 --> 03:47:45,780
Because next week's national night out.

2545
03:47:46,940 --> 03:47:47,120
Okay.

2546
03:47:47,400 --> 03:47:50,840
So feedback and we'll just start with council member Amis.

2547
03:47:53,790 --> 03:47:58,150
August is a bit of a rough month for me, so it's unlikely I'll be able to, however,

2548
03:47:58,650 --> 03:48:01,810
if I were to be able to finesse it, it would need to be towards the end of the month,

2549
03:48:02,030 --> 03:48:05,350
so that 18th through the 25th. If we stick with Tuesday.

2550
03:48:06,970 --> 03:48:08,270
Okay, Council Member Hall.

2551
03:48:08,550 --> 03:48:12,190
I would prefer not the 25th as our kids go back to school the day before.

2552
03:48:13,250 --> 03:48:17,490
So I am, otherwise, the 11th or the 18th we're fine for me.

2553
03:48:18,450 --> 03:48:20,490
Okay, Councilmember Hardy-Chandler.

2554
03:48:22,290 --> 03:48:24,790
I believe I can do the 18th.

2555
03:48:26,130 --> 03:48:26,930
Councilmember Peterson?

2556
03:48:27,650 --> 03:48:28,130
I'm flexible.

2557
03:48:29,950 --> 03:48:31,190
Okay, Councilmember Bates.

2558
03:48:31,890 --> 03:48:33,450
Any of those work for me?

2559
03:48:35,600 --> 03:48:35,960
I'm going.

2560
03:48:35,960 --> 03:48:36,060
I'm going.

2561
03:48:36,740 --> 03:48:38,760
Oh, sorry, the 11th or the 18th, please.

2562
03:48:39,320 --> 03:48:41,340
Okay, it was like the 18th is the winner.

2563
03:48:41,720 --> 03:48:43,500
Okay, and just next question, like I said,

2564
03:48:43,580 --> 03:48:45,400
I have 20 people on deck.

2565
03:48:45,660 --> 03:48:48,960
Is there a certain amount you want to bring that night?

2566
03:48:49,860 --> 03:48:54,540
We do four and hour, so that's a long time.

2567
03:48:58,350 --> 03:48:59,370
Councilmember Peterson?

2568
03:49:00,510 --> 03:49:10,890
So I'm looking at the list, and if I've got it right, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, one, two, but twelve or thirteen are housing and healthy communities advisory board.

2569
03:49:10,890 --> 03:49:12,470
Did I get that right?

2570
03:49:12,690 --> 03:49:16,870
So some of them have long titles because they represent a certain position on there.

2571
03:49:17,010 --> 03:49:19,290
So really on there, let me get my glasses on.

2572
03:49:19,290 --> 03:49:22,130
okay yeah my eyes are not my eyes are not working

2573
03:49:22,130 --> 03:49:26,670
there's like six right now okay yeah thank gosh that was hard to figure out

2574
03:49:26,670 --> 03:49:29,850
well there's I didn't want to you know just put names on there I want to

2575
03:49:29,850 --> 03:49:34,170
at least you know show like what position they represent but I wonder whether

2576
03:49:34,170 --> 03:49:39,250
that's sort of a stack that we might set aside and do that's a bunch of folks

2577
03:49:39,250 --> 03:49:43,650
and that if we split it so that somehow that we weren't doing them all at once

2578
03:49:43,650 --> 03:49:50,310
that would be an option for that being set aside so their terms are not open to

2579
03:49:50,310 --> 03:49:57,570
January, yes. So on the last page, I have a list of all the applicants who would be re-appointments

2580
03:49:57,570 --> 03:49:59,910
for the rest of the year. They vary.

2581
03:50:23,930 --> 03:50:32,830
All right. All right. That's all I need. I'll get back on the date or we'll see. Okay. We can do the 18 since everybody is in the middle of the year.

2582
03:50:32,830 --> 03:50:38,450
pretty much on the 18th. Okay. We can start a seven or we can start six. You're

2583
03:50:38,450 --> 03:50:41,030
a preference. Six.

2584
03:50:48,000 --> 03:50:48,000
Okay.

2585
03:50:49,180 --> 03:50:52,620
Okay. I forgot that it's still on me. Okay.

2586
03:50:52,940 --> 03:50:58,380
Thank you. All good. So pivoting back real quick. I've another, I guess, calendar

2587
03:50:58,380 --> 03:51:01,660
clarification doesn't need to be during council comments. I know Brian

2588
03:51:01,660 --> 03:51:10,280
I'd love to respond to us about the pickets reserve visit on Saturday, so it folks want to message on how we want to go about that with the handle that separately.

2589
03:51:11,940 --> 03:51:13,220
So I'll just mention that.

2590
03:51:14,060 --> 03:51:20,440
Last two items, National Night Out just want to celebrate our police and thank the communities who are hosting for them next week.

2591
03:51:21,300 --> 03:51:28,820
And shout out to Courtside Ty on your 20 years of activity and serving the great citizens of Fairfax City.

2592
03:51:29,140 --> 03:51:30,500
So thank you.

2593
03:51:32,100 --> 03:51:39,360
I want to thank Ornery for many, many years of service to our city, very, very sad to see them close.

2594
03:51:39,700 --> 03:51:45,020
It seems to be a tough spot there, and I love you when you're up there.

2595
03:51:45,080 --> 03:51:49,200
I love you when you're down stairs, and I just sad to see you go.

2596
03:51:50,760 --> 03:51:53,360
And I don't really have much else prepared.

2597
03:51:54,000 --> 03:51:59,300
I wish everyone a quiet month in August, while we don't have council meetings.

2598
03:51:59,300 --> 03:52:05,460
I'm sure staff will appreciate the somewhat hideous of dealing with all of us on a weekly basis.

2599
03:52:05,820 --> 03:52:07,480
We'll make sure to check in, I promise.

2600
03:52:09,160 --> 03:52:12,260
And as I said earlier to my colleagues, I just want to thank you all for your flexibility,

2601
03:52:12,840 --> 03:52:16,210
for our remote participation policy, with the things that we're going on with my dad.

2602
03:52:17,780 --> 03:52:22,000
Things are definitely looking up. Being went on as a first solo walks and things are good.

2603
03:52:22,780 --> 03:52:25,360
And if I owe you an email, it will be coming this week, I promise.

2604
03:52:29,000 --> 03:52:50,460
And I know we had difficult conversations tonight with regard to the ADU conversation, but I do want to say that I think we had respectful conversation, I think we were all able to share our thoughts and feelings in a way that, you know, is what we should be doing on council here, whether we disagree or agree at the end of the evening about it.

2605
03:52:50,460 --> 03:52:57,460
You know, we're all able to still get together and laugh and do the other things, which makes me think I think we're also do for a night out to

2606
03:52:57,980 --> 03:52:59,600
our planner over here on the right.

2607
03:53:01,420 --> 03:53:02,560
I got you.

2608
03:53:02,560 --> 03:53:03,460
All right.

2609
03:53:06,100 --> 03:53:06,980
Councilmember Hortison.

2610
03:53:07,380 --> 03:53:13,240
I hope everyone enjoys a restful break except for breaking the break for other tasks.

2611
03:53:13,800 --> 03:53:17,760
Looking forward to national night out. I'll look forward to trivia and idea if we do get together.

2612
03:53:19,120 --> 03:53:19,620
Happy summer.

2613
03:53:21,120 --> 03:53:22,080
Councillor Piederson.

2614
03:53:22,740 --> 03:53:27,620
Well, likewise, so I think everybody deserves a good break and I hope they take advantage of it.

2615
03:53:27,880 --> 03:53:34,000
So I believe it or not was the last customer to leave Hornery on its last night on Sunday.

2616
03:53:35,580 --> 03:53:37,140
Yeah, very sad.

2617
03:53:37,960 --> 03:53:44,760
But I had a long conversation with the owner, and as it turns out, has been a little bit of a busy week,

2618
03:53:44,760 --> 03:53:53,260
because just happenstance had long conversations with other restaurant owners in Old Town,

2619
03:53:53,820 --> 03:54:01,300
some past recent and some current. And I think the kind of sense that came out of all those

2620
03:54:01,300 --> 03:54:09,780
conversations is that there is a conversation that hasn't exactly happened yet with that community

2621
03:54:09,780 --> 03:54:13,540
about what their needs are and how they might be met.

2622
03:54:14,200 --> 03:54:17,740
And I think in their view, ain't so easy.

2623
03:54:18,620 --> 03:54:21,700
There are multiple factors that play here,

2624
03:54:22,120 --> 03:54:26,860
and I just wanted to suggest that we find a way somehow

2625
03:54:26,860 --> 03:54:30,340
and other to have that conversation that is perhaps something

2626
03:54:30,340 --> 03:54:32,540
or economic development director can help with.

2627
03:54:32,700 --> 03:54:37,400
I'm not sure, but I think my sense from talking with all of them

2628
03:54:37,400 --> 03:54:44,860
And these are people who are pretty capable business analysts, as well as being entrepreneurs.

2629
03:54:47,060 --> 03:54:53,220
They had kind of an advanced sense of the challenge that they're facing, and they're looking

2630
03:54:53,220 --> 03:54:56,640
for a way to unpack that on some meaningful way.

2631
03:54:56,840 --> 03:54:59,980
So I'd like to encourage us to find a way to do that, because it's...

2632
03:55:00,000 --> 03:55:29,280
You know, it's tough. People put their lives into these businesses. It's interesting. The one thing that small business people have in common, according to McKinsey is that they work all the time and they go to the gym regularly. And this is a set of people who's an example of folks who work all the time. And to see this cycle kind of happen where people have to check out because they're not able to keep up is a hard thing. So I just want to shout out for them.

2633
03:55:29,280 --> 03:55:34,300
I certainly feel they're paying and want to do everything we can here to be helpful for them.

2634
03:55:35,820 --> 03:55:36,920
Councillor member Bates.

2635
03:55:38,620 --> 03:55:42,700
I just want to wish everyone a happy national night out.

2636
03:55:43,060 --> 03:55:47,280
And echo council member Amy's comments thanking our local police.

2637
03:55:47,760 --> 03:55:48,600
Thank you.

2638
03:55:48,760 --> 03:55:49,860
Councillor member Quillin.

2639
03:55:51,280 --> 03:55:53,520
I too am looking forward to national night out.

2640
03:55:53,540 --> 03:55:58,280
And I also was able to visit Ornery before they close their doors this weekend.

2641
03:55:58,280 --> 03:56:04,600
and we'll be sad to see it them go, wishing all of our staff a great month off, thank you.

2642
03:56:06,840 --> 03:56:12,960
Okay, and I want to remind everybody that Frozen, the City of Fairfax Theatre Company's

2643
03:56:12,960 --> 03:56:18,900
production is currently playing and we'll be going with grandchildren to see that on Saturday the first,

2644
03:56:19,400 --> 03:56:23,200
so I encourage everybody to go see Frozen. I know you know all the words to the songs.

2645
03:56:23,200 --> 03:56:27,780
We also have restaurant week from August 20th to 30th.

2646
03:56:27,920 --> 03:56:31,600
So please support our local restaurant speaking of our local restaurants.

2647
03:56:32,000 --> 03:56:34,540
Get out there, try some new ones, take friends and family.

2648
03:56:35,180 --> 03:56:40,040
We did that in this particular time period because the George Mason's students are returning

2649
03:56:40,040 --> 03:56:45,680
to the campus on August 26th, and please keep in mind that Fairfax City is in fact

2650
03:56:45,680 --> 03:56:47,800
George Mason University's hometown.

2651
03:56:48,020 --> 03:56:52,740
So we need to kind of represent out there, welcome the students and their parents back when

2652
03:56:52,740 --> 03:56:59,660
see them around town and with that I am going to adjourn the meeting at 10.57 PM on Tuesday.