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Thank you. I will try to make sure that everybody can hear me. If you can't hear me, would you raise your hand? All right. Great.

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The first thing we have on our agenda is approval of the minutes from May 22nd, 2025.

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Move for approval. I will second. All those in favor. That is 2-0.

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I wanted to just give some instructions for today. We've got a package agenda.

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So, good afternoon and welcome.

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Later on, you will be asked if you want to give public comment.

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You can please be aware of the following guidelines.

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First of all, I'll say there is a sign-up sheet to my left on the table there.

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You may sign up, you don't have to sign up, but when the time comes to me to ask for public comment,

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those of you who have signed up will be called first.

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Each speaker will be a lot of three minutes.

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When it is your turn to speak, you'll begin by stating your name and general address, we don't need your street address.

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And then to be sure that you have an uninterrupted opportunity to speak, this would be your time.

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So that means members of the council will not be answering questions or engaging in discussion with your public comments.

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But we are willing to answer questions after the meeting.

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Or if you'd like to email us, you can email us at city council at cityofredricmd.gov.

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And that's also on the website.

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If you have written materials to accompany your remarks, we also encourage you to email those just in case you can't get all in in your three minutes.

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Let's see.

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If you have sent in e-commence or e-mails on your agenda item, you need not get up and speak those comments are already in the record.

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You certainly are welcome to, but we don't need you to come up and just reiterate the same message over and over again.

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We do use rules of procedure, which most recently passed by Resolution 2427, conduct that disrupts

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the meeting or interferes with the rights of members of the public to attend and observe is not acceptable,

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and we have posted our code of civility in the board room over there on the bulletin board.

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So, please take note of the exits for your safety and please silence all of your electronic devices.

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Thank you for taking time to be here and engage with us today, and we will begin our workshop agenda with the Youth Center

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update. Who do we have?

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Good afternoon. My name is Eric Orba. I'm the manager of Opportunity and Transformation with the Office of the Mayor.

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And the use center is a project that I've been working on for the last couple of years,

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either with HHS or with the Office of the Mayor.

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Our big reveal. Thank you, Andrew. These images have been provided in your back up,

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but we understand it's easier to see blue prints when they're a little bit larger.

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So we wanted to make sure we had a larger scale for you all.

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Thanks, Erica. My name is Andrew Welker.

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I work for Auschwem properties, but I'm also serve on the Advisory Board for Auschwem and family foundations

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community projects committee.

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And I have been charged with and happy to assist with the design management for this youth center project.

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As you might recall, the memorandum of understanding between the city and Auschwem and family foundations was signed in September of last year.

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And happy to report that things are running very smoothly as it relates to the construct and the outline of that memorandum of understanding.

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So today, I wanted to bring you up to speed on what we've accomplished since that MOU was signed and then give an opportunity for our design team to present to you the blocking and space plan concept that we've come up with over the past nine months.

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Can you pull a mic just a wee bit close?

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Sure.

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I have an echo effect.

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I also don't like how it echoes just a little bit.

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So I apologize if I stuttered, it's usually because I hear myself twice when I'm talking.

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So since the MOU was signed, we did conduct a comprehensive property condition assessment.

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Basically, asking ourselves whether the building was fit for the intended use as a use center.

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And then look at existing conditions, infrastructure, constraints and opportunities,

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how we could best utilize the building in a cost-effective way and a meaningful way for the providers that are going to be housed there.

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The building was officially transferred to the city from the county in late March and even going back before the transfer.

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We held a number of stakeholder input sessions.

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The MOU requires that we collaborate with the city.

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I believe we've gone beyond that and we've formed a facility work group that is a combination of

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of Ottoman family foundation, city staff,

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multiple members from the city and then other youth providers

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in our community all helped guide the process

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for the stakeholder input sessions.

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Those input sessions included visits to other youth centers

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in the region, where we got feedback

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from the Frederick County Youth Council,

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so members of the Youth Council from ages 12 to 24,

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provided their feedback and input.

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We had multiple design mini-sharets with that youth council,

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the 12 to 24 collaborative, which is a group of essentially

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all of the youth services providers in Frederick.

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We had data exercises, surveys, and mini-sharets with all of those groups.

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And all of this was synthesized into a plan.

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And I'm going to ask Nulker and Hol to come up and walk you through

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plan. We did have to sort through a variety of priorities, want to have, like to have, must

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have, and balance all of that with the expected expenditure for the project, and then make

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sure that we maintain as much flexibility and how the building can be used for the multitude

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of services that can be provided there. So with that, I'm happy to share with you where I guess

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to bring up to the the Dias Nolker and Whole Architects who will walk you through the plan today.

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So before we jump into why we're all here, the design, I want to give a little bit of backstory to kind of where we came from, just to re-orient.

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Which one is one?

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Oh, this one. Claire, do you just put it in the next one?

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And I have some lovely images for you guys who are providing you back then. So we, oh, here we are. Okay.

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So, the last time we met as Andrew alluded to, we approved accepting the building from

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Frederick County government.

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The orange, I'm sorry, the yellow building is a future home of the use center that's

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a 300 Scottish bus lane, which is directly neighboring the boys and girls come up for

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their county and south and park, which are city owned properties, and across the street from

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a city field and other city owned property, and it shares a parking lot with mental health

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association.

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So when we work with the community to determine the best location for the future home of the

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Center. It's obviously why we landed on this location. And a big thank you to the

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Frederick County Government for their partnership and helping us to secure the space.

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Now to kind of flip your orientation around the use center that yellow building is now on the right

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hand of the screen south and parks in the middle. Boys and girls clubs on the left. This is a great

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opportunity for our future campus where young Frederick residents really don't count any actually,

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but specifically Frederick residents who are at the Boys and Girls Club as they age,

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So have this really nice transition into the 14 to 24 population that the use center will eventually

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serve.

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It will always be in the same place.

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It's the same bus route.

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So it's a really great future home for just services in general.

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This is a product timeline.

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So generally shows you what I explained verbally, where we had community assessments.

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We had visioning sessions.

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We did assess the building, make sure that it was, there were no environmental issues.

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there are no constructability and structural issues and we are currently in the planning and preliminary

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design phase. We have landed on blocking plan that everybody is proud of and we are actively

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working towards a set of schematic design plans which should be complete around the September

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timeframe. We have been collaborating with the building department of the City of Frederick

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facilities as well. So we have there by in on mechanical electrical and plumbing systems.

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And all of that will be again synthesized into the plans as we we move forward with that.

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And as I mentioned, we are we do have the process a site plan.

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But ahead of that site plan, we will be processing an institutional overlay zoning request.

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And then we will have, of course, civil plans and full design drawings.

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All of that is to get us to a Q, late to Q, 1, 20, 20, 8 building completion and delivery.

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So, a little over two and a half years away from this.

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So, we are very much in the early stages, but we do have something a substance to share with you.

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I'm Robert Asbury, no current hall architects.

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We're going to speak a little bit about the design process so far and our building evaluation.

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So hopefully this works.

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There

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we go.

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Continuing the aerial view that you saw a little while ago, this is the same orientation

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with Scotty's Puzz Lane at the bottom of the sheet.

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The Jefferson Streets to the right and the backs up to the gas station on the right

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and the shopping center at the top of the sheet.

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The building was built in 1964 as a no-land warehouse.

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It is very much a warehouse now despite county use to convert it to office space.

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We did a full evaluation of the building to assure ourselves that it was using it and that the city was going to have a good large span out of the building.

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It's okay, it's an art and you got a little too close, it's an art.

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So just, if you hear the buzzing, I know, thank you for your tolerance.

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We go through this every week.

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Yes.

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A very narrow view of where you can speak.

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It's a 1964 building built for Nolan as a plumbing warehouse.

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And we've evaluated it and established that it's usable.

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that there are no fundamentally troublesome concerns,

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but it is 1964 building.

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So it needs complete system replacement.

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All the electrical, all the mechanical,

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all the plumbing, all the skin of the building

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needs to be the replaced or augmented to bring it up

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to current codes.

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Obviously, it's a change of use.

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So this requires full compliance with all current building codes.

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So we've evaluated that and established that we do believe this building is feasible for use.

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And we'll be satisfactory for when it's final purpose.

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It's about 18,000 square feet.

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We're not proposing any additions to the footprint.

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It is just the building that is there working within the walls.

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with the exception of a possible extension along the streets

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side where there is that arcade along the street where we already

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have a roof and we're going to be replacing the windows anyway.

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So we think we can get a marginal expansion of the building just by

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working with the roof as it is.

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So Dan is going to describe a little bit about the actual proposal.

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Regiment of the building. Great, can you hear me? Okay. So, as Andrew said, we met with the youth council as well as the

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12 to 24 collaborative and had lots of shirts and input from everyone and it was actually pretty encouraging and and and and fun to hang out with the youth council and they had a lot of input and dreams for their space for their building.

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And so a lot of what you'll see in this layout, this black diagram is essentially a collaboration with everyone and a lot of their input.

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So just briefly, we started out with some very schematic conceptual layouts that then turned into this a little bit more refined layout that's still not set in stone, but for the most part, it will drive our future design.

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Just to orient you, again, Bob mentioned that the bottom of the sheet is Scotty's bus lane.

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So all the spaces there in green obviously have a full view to the street as well as from the street.

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And so lots of light available in those spaces.

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The spaces to the right as Bob mentioned back to the gas station there.

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So there is some light, but obviously not a lot of views, you're seeing the back of the gas station.

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And then the area, the purple to the north, there's about the next building over is about 20, 20, maybe 30 feet away.

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So really no view there whatsoever.

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There is potential for light there, but essentially that's the back side of the building.

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And then the building to the facade that faces a left is faces a parking lot and then the new park that's been designed that we're incorporating.

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So that sort of started our concept of how we enter the building and how we experience it.

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So there are two entrances, one being on the left hand side that faces the park and the drive the drop off and a parking lot there.

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That would be the main entrance for large events, large group events, open to the kids.

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There is a secondary entrance on a top right that faces the parking lot, the shared parking lot,

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along Jefferson, and that will be open primarily during the day for individual use for staff,

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for private meetings, things like that.

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So, at each of those locations, we have security desks and security vestveels, one of the main topics during our discussions was security and visibility and the balance between those two, but also spaces where you feel like you can get away and have some time with your friends and be by yourself.

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So, the spaces are generally comprised of large activity spaces,

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essentially the blue areas, where there's lots of fun activity.

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The large space is essentially a little bit more than half a gym size,

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and can be there for lots of physical activity,

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but also can be used for gatherings, for community gatherings.

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You see sort of a chair arrangement there that would allow for that.

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And then we have some medium science spaces that would be focused more on studios.

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The word classroom was not a popular word with the kids, so it became studio.

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And so we have maker spaces, we have studios for stem, studies, larger spaces for arts

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and crafts, and then even an entrepreneurial space that has a lot of promise to it in describing

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what it could be used for.

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And then the smaller spaces, obviously, are office spaces for staff, but also those are

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the spaces in pink, along the right-hand side, can be used for smaller counseling spaces,

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two to four individuals in there, there's a well, a wellness room as well.

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So I'll just go back to the main entry as a youth would experience a space.

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You'd come into the entrance there, there would be a security directly north of that, and

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that has glass all over it, so that little security area can be, can really oversee that whole

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center lounge, can oversee the gymnasium, and a lot of the activity that's in.

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So we felt that that was crucial that that was a space that can see throughout the

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facility to the to the bottom of that is just really a hangout space being dropped off by

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mom or dad or waiting for mom or dad or just hanging out with friends or parents coming

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in, dropping their kids off hanging out so that's that's a space there.

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But then once you enter into the larger area, that's really a kind of transitional lounge space that becomes the heart of the facility.

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The kids want a lot to hang out spaces, just really to hang out with their friends.

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And so lots of different areas for seating arrangements and spaces to do that.

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The circular area that you see is the cafe, and that's part of the cafe slash kitchenette.

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It really becomes a focal point in 3D as you walk and are able to see that.

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So that really becomes a focal point, really the hinge of that whole design that then pulls

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you in towards the building and towards the back of the more private spaces.

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So if you will, the left side is more larger activity, more higher volume activity spaces.

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The right side is a little less activity, quieter spaces, offices, and counseling rooms there.

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Bob, there's a couple images in the next slide.

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These are just some rough vignettes of the spaces that show a little bit of 3D volume of the 2D plan.

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So mainly of the lounge areas as you walk in.

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So we've got 18 feet of height in there.

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So we really want to use that to just really open up

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the space, feel open, be able to visibly

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see into the gym.

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Lots of opportunities for some fun cool things.

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I mean, the kids came.

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We brought some different images.

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They also had images.

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00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:48,140
And they're like, we like this, we'd love to have this.

215
00:21:48,140 --> 00:21:49,140
That's not as cool.

216
00:21:49,140 --> 00:21:54,060
And so it was fun to work with them and get their input.

217
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,120
But these are just some images showing how the space

218
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:00,500
will be transformed in 3D.

219
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,180
And I want to emphasize these are right now rough images from very early.

220
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,340
We will have a light filled colorful space.

221
00:22:10,020 --> 00:22:13,100
This is just really more of a study of the space itself

222
00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:16,200
rather than an image of how it's going to look.

223
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:23,820
We have a lot of skylights in the building, we're introducing more natural light, so we're trying to unwarehouse the whole look of the place.

224
00:22:26,770 --> 00:22:29,890
There might be it on our part, if Andrew wants to pick up?

225
00:22:42,860 --> 00:22:49,000
Erica mentioned earlier, Erica mentioned that there was a overall concept plan for the campus.

226
00:22:49,180 --> 00:22:56,700
So this is a concept that was done by Man Rikel, and they looked at the South and Park, the Boys and Girls Club in the Youth Center,

227
00:22:56,700 --> 00:23:02,800
And came up with the conceptual plan, which is really a guideline and inspiration for how

228
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,480
that those campuses will mesh in the future.

229
00:23:06,900 --> 00:23:13,100
One thing to point out is the use center building, one of the big ones was outdoor space.

230
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:14,280
They wanted a patio.

231
00:23:14,420 --> 00:23:19,700
They wanted a rooftop deck, but that was not particularly feasible at this location, but

232
00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:28,180
We are providing or proposing an outdoor patio that will make use of the existing openings

233
00:23:28,180 --> 00:23:34,140
that were there for a loading dock area, industrial loading dock, which directly connects

234
00:23:34,140 --> 00:23:41,000
to the gym and the activity space, and that will be basically separated and confined or

235
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,340
not to find, but separated from a security standpoint, so it's only accessible from inside

236
00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:53,560
building, but using fencing material and partitions that are still open area and do not disrupt

237
00:23:53,560 --> 00:24:01,540
the flow in the connection of the campus. So as we design the use center site, we are always

238
00:24:01,540 --> 00:24:08,320
recognizing and meshing in with this concept plants that ultimately that campus is cohesive

239
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,640
and all the parts and pieces work together.

240
00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:18,320
We have anything else to say about the plans and where

241
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:24,680
I'd like to open up for questions or feedback or for comments if you have any at this time.

242
00:24:28,130 --> 00:24:29,210
Well first of all, thank you.

243
00:24:29,410 --> 00:24:32,890
You guys have done a fabulous, I can't use that term guys often.

244
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:36,030
You people have done a fabulous job.

245
00:24:37,150 --> 00:24:44,970
I'm a little surprised to see that there is not space for athletics inside the building at all.

246
00:24:45,130 --> 00:24:48,010
So far as I can see am I missing something?

247
00:24:49,290 --> 00:24:52,250
maybe if we're defining athletics the same way.

248
00:24:52,410 --> 00:24:55,230
So we do have the large blue space on the plan

249
00:24:55,230 --> 00:24:56,970
and that's what that shows all the chairs.

250
00:24:57,510 --> 00:25:00,490
That is essentially a basketball court in gymnasium.

251
00:25:00,970 --> 00:25:02,650
Oh, so the chairs are not set.

252
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:06,810
The chairs are not fixed to the north of that on the plan.

253
00:25:07,170 --> 00:25:08,870
Our three large storage rooms.

254
00:25:09,170 --> 00:25:11,250
So all of those chairs would be housed in there.

255
00:25:11,370 --> 00:25:13,810
It was really just to illustrate how it could be used

256
00:25:13,810 --> 00:25:16,290
for both the basketball and physical activity

257
00:25:16,290 --> 00:25:17,870
and also for large gatherings.

258
00:25:18,330 --> 00:25:19,910
Thank you, I thought that might be the case,

259
00:25:20,110 --> 00:25:22,690
but then I thought, yeah, I better ask because, yeah.

260
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:26,810
So, you know, it was just a little surprising to me.

261
00:25:26,810 --> 00:25:32,230
I have to say that I, the space itself,

262
00:25:33,250 --> 00:25:37,250
if those not class rooms can be used

263
00:25:37,810 --> 00:25:41,150
for different types of training and different types of,

264
00:25:41,210 --> 00:25:43,890
I can imagine kids getting in there,

265
00:25:43,890 --> 00:25:50,210
You know, there are schools have things like there's a thing called Odyssey of the Mind

266
00:25:50,210 --> 00:25:54,050
or they have robotics teams and they have, you know, they have stuff like that.

267
00:25:54,250 --> 00:26:02,070
And I can imagine groups like that using those spaces for some of these extracurricular activities

268
00:26:02,750 --> 00:26:05,190
that are difficult to do.

269
00:26:05,610 --> 00:26:11,010
I know when my son did Odyssey of the Mind, we had to do it at my house, which was fun

270
00:26:11,010 --> 00:26:17,370
in and of itself, but I'm thrilled, like this is beautiful.

271
00:26:18,970 --> 00:26:20,470
Yeah, and that was a common thing.

272
00:26:20,590 --> 00:26:23,150
There were a lot of different youth service providers

273
00:26:23,150 --> 00:26:25,430
that wanted to do a lot of different things.

274
00:26:26,090 --> 00:26:28,230
So one thing we were focused on was making sure

275
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:32,650
that each of this space could function in multiple ways.

276
00:26:33,050 --> 00:26:37,590
So flexibility, not permanently installing things

277
00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:41,050
that prohibit other uses from going in there,

278
00:26:41,210 --> 00:26:42,950
so maintaining flexibility in each of the spaces

279
00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:43,490
was important.

280
00:26:43,630 --> 00:26:45,190
Talk to me about the pink rooms.

281
00:26:45,550 --> 00:26:48,830
The rooms that are listed as shared offices,

282
00:26:49,070 --> 00:26:50,030
I believe, right.

283
00:26:50,090 --> 00:26:53,490
Hoot and shared by, so on the right hand side of the plan,

284
00:26:53,610 --> 00:26:57,170
there's the shared office and kind of co-working space.

285
00:26:58,330 --> 00:26:59,610
So as they're illustrated,

286
00:26:59,990 --> 00:27:03,070
they're shown in a variety of different places.

287
00:27:03,550 --> 00:27:04,110
What's up?

288
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:04,470
What's up?

289
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:10,400
What's up?

290
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:16,760
So each of these right now are shown 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 rooms.

291
00:27:17,140 --> 00:27:19,860
They're shown in various arrangements.

292
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,800
And so the intention is that some of those rooms

293
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,000
could be set up as small two-person offices,

294
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,260
if a provider wants to temporarily hotel

295
00:27:30,260 --> 00:27:33,060
in one of those offices, because they're seeing youth

296
00:27:33,060 --> 00:27:34,300
on a particular day.

297
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,720
It could be used as small one-on-one counseling rooms,

298
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,300
maybe four-person meeting room.

299
00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:40,980
Maybe somebody needs to go in there and do homework.

300
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,180
So each of these, the ideas that each of those small office spaces are not each

301
00:27:46,180 --> 00:27:51,900
offices, but they could function as study room, office, small meeting space, counseling.

302
00:27:52,580 --> 00:27:56,060
So flexible and could change over time, depending on how they're being utilized.

303
00:27:56,540 --> 00:28:01,320
But the intention, partly because there are no views to that side.

304
00:28:01,340 --> 00:28:02,960
And you are fronting the gas station.

305
00:28:03,220 --> 00:28:07,600
It made sense to put the quiet and more, you know,

306
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,200
smaller activity space on that side of the plant.

307
00:28:13,730 --> 00:28:19,960
That's, again, kind of what we thought, kind of what we had talked about at the beginning.

308
00:28:20,460 --> 00:28:25,120
I just want to make sure that I'm picturing this all as it's being presented again.

309
00:28:25,540 --> 00:28:28,980
I'm first laying, I'm thrilled, I'm just absolutely thrilled.

310
00:28:32,820 --> 00:28:33,960
I have no questions.

311
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:43,660
I have to say that young people are going to have this amazing space.

312
00:28:43,660 --> 00:28:47,620
because that was non-existent in my time.

313
00:28:48,740 --> 00:28:50,400
But, like when you said they want to rooftop deck,

314
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:51,920
but they're going to get a patio, I'm like,

315
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,620
but so yes, they should have the same amenities

316
00:28:55,620 --> 00:28:58,880
and respectful spaces as grown-ups, adults

317
00:28:58,880 --> 00:28:59,940
and older people do.

318
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,080
So I think what you've done is amazing the collaboration

319
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,520
that it has taken to get to this point.

320
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,260
I can't wait to see this and I wish I could go back in time

321
00:29:11,260 --> 00:29:12,800
and be a participant.

322
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:19,920
But thank you to everyone, Ashman, and all the folks that have an open hall played a role in this.

323
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,180
This is super exciting.

324
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:23,620
So that's all I have.

325
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:24,640
I apologize.

326
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,020
I did have one other thing.

327
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,320
And I completely agree with you, Chair.

328
00:29:30,060 --> 00:29:31,680
Yes, jealous.

329
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:37,400
The restrooms.

330
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:47,120
If there is going to be, if there are going to be events there, and obviously part of the

331
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:53,260
purposes to have some events there, anybody who's gone to any events always knows that

332
00:29:53,260 --> 00:29:57,720
to get into a one's restroom takes twice as long as to get into a man's restroom.

333
00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,980
And I think that that's true of...

334
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:08,660
Especially for talking teenagers on top of that. So when I first looked at the plans, if you look

335
00:30:08,660 --> 00:30:22,180
at the women's room, so there are a couple of different unit sex bathrooms, right? But then you

336
00:30:22,180 --> 00:30:24,520
have a men's room and a women's room.

337
00:30:27,060 --> 00:30:31,800
And the women's room is slightly larger.

338
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,160
They're essentially the same size.

339
00:30:36,740 --> 00:30:39,220
It's your nose take up less space than toilets.

340
00:30:39,580 --> 00:30:41,680
So I think there's a small difference

341
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:42,900
in the ultimate dimensions.

342
00:30:43,340 --> 00:30:48,840
Yeah, I was looking at number of pictures.

343
00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:51,380
Let's just call them termals that can be used.

344
00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:56,400
And it's like it's three in both, right?

345
00:30:56,860 --> 00:30:57,380
That's correct.

346
00:30:58,740 --> 00:31:05,380
Personally, I would love to see us add just one more in the women's.

347
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:13,880
And maybe do that with the custodial space that kind of sticks into there if there would be a way of moving that.

348
00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:15,920
But again, you're the designers.

349
00:31:18,140 --> 00:31:21,220
It's a great space, but it's just when I was looking at it,

350
00:31:21,220 --> 00:31:23,460
it's one thing that really did catch my eye

351
00:31:23,460 --> 00:31:26,980
was there's never enough women's bathrooms,

352
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:28,720
there's just never enough.

353
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,080
I'm in everything else, dealt with this.

354
00:31:32,820 --> 00:31:33,780
Thank you.

355
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,740
I may be telling on myself that sometimes I don't wait

356
00:31:38,740 --> 00:31:41,000
in lines, sometimes I use that other one.

357
00:31:43,790 --> 00:31:45,810
That they're not involved with that, right?

358
00:31:47,010 --> 00:31:47,970
But there is a gender,

359
00:31:47,970 --> 00:31:52,030
gender and neutral facility that can take the overflow as well.

360
00:31:52,030 --> 00:31:52,690
Okay, cool.

361
00:31:52,930 --> 00:31:56,190
Yeah, the way we've got the restroom bank here,

362
00:31:56,430 --> 00:31:59,390
restroom bank here, and then individual gender neutral

363
00:31:59,390 --> 00:32:02,530
restroom here with a shower, and then another

364
00:32:04,250 --> 00:32:07,150
individual, unisex restroom non-gendered restroom here.

365
00:32:12,610 --> 00:32:13,250
Is that it?

366
00:32:13,530 --> 00:32:13,650
Cool.

367
00:32:14,670 --> 00:32:17,170
Do we have anybody who would like to make public comment

368
00:32:17,170 --> 00:32:19,030
comments on this?

369
00:32:19,030 --> 00:32:21,150
A bitch and it would be signed up on this.

370
00:32:21,550 --> 00:32:22,470
Okay, fantastic.

371
00:32:24,410 --> 00:32:25,910
We look forward to the next update

372
00:32:25,910 --> 00:32:29,710
and all the progress and please let us know how we can assist.

373
00:32:31,210 --> 00:32:32,330
Thank you so much.

374
00:32:34,580 --> 00:32:38,760
Okay, we are on to the brick works deferral agreement.

375
00:32:40,820 --> 00:32:42,540
Give everybody a minute to clear the room.

376
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:44,360
Hi, Pam.

377
00:32:49,210 --> 00:32:51,010
I hope my applicants here somewhere.

378
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,940
The error of brick works is asking for,

379
00:32:58,940 --> 00:33:09,400
It's because the deferral, a little bit less constructing a portion of a comprehensive plan

380
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:21,020
road that runs through brickworks from West to East, from East to the East property line

381
00:33:21,020 --> 00:33:22,780
that borders the Wolf property.

382
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:30,400
They are developing part of the half of the construction of the

383
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,380
Comprehensive Road with lots that they are moving forward with.

384
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,320
They do want to ask for deferral for approximately half of it.

385
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:43,600
They have provided you with an exhibit here in pink, which is part of the lot

386
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:44,120
five.

387
00:33:44,780 --> 00:33:49,820
And that will go with subject to another developer for not five.

388
00:33:49,820 --> 00:33:55,660
that plan has gone forward to the PAN Commission at this time and been approved, but with

389
00:33:55,660 --> 00:34:00,640
the subdivision of all the lights that's still standing from a conditional approval based

390
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:09,740
on this deferral approval since the road is part of the subdivision of the lights. And that is

391
00:34:09,740 --> 00:34:17,140
basically what we're looking for here is your approval, basically for their deferral for that

392
00:34:17,140 --> 00:34:18,400
and it's like move forward.

393
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:25,200
Is the developer here too, or to you?

394
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,440
I was just, just behind myself.

395
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:27,800
Just behind myself.

396
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:29,860
No, they're bad.

397
00:34:30,020 --> 00:34:31,260
Think they're behind you.

398
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:32,660
Come on up.

399
00:34:33,340 --> 00:34:35,100
And if you would introduce yourself,

400
00:34:38,130 --> 00:34:39,570
and there's another, there's another, my fair,

401
00:34:39,730 --> 00:34:42,250
if you can, there you go, press the button.

402
00:34:42,670 --> 00:34:43,830
And tell us what you want here.

403
00:34:44,270 --> 00:34:45,010
Want to do it.

404
00:34:45,010 --> 00:34:45,570
Good afternoon.

405
00:34:46,610 --> 00:34:47,530
My name is Eric DeVito.

406
00:34:47,550 --> 00:34:49,150
I'm General Counsel for Greenberg Gibbons.

407
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:51,290
We are the developer for the entire brick works

408
00:34:51,290 --> 00:34:56,170
project and the applicant for this deferral agreement with me is J. Diamond, who is the director

409
00:34:56,170 --> 00:35:02,090
of our development for Greenery Gibbons. We happy to answer any questions about the project

410
00:35:02,090 --> 00:35:05,990
as a whole. If you want to update on that, we've certainly prepared to do that. We've

411
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:09,930
been through a number of hearings at the Planning Commission and we've received several rounds

412
00:35:09,930 --> 00:35:17,470
of approvals. This particular item is, as Ms. Rep. just said, there is a portion of brickwork

413
00:35:17,470 --> 00:35:21,190
We are doing all of the infrastructure for the project.

414
00:35:21,830 --> 00:35:27,490
This portion that's in red is associated with a subdivision that's being processed.

415
00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:32,570
In conjunction with our plans, but it's NBR is the builder of those townhouses.

416
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:35,490
That lot planned, not five, we call it, not five.

417
00:35:36,010 --> 00:35:39,970
It was just approved Monday night by the Planning Commission to move forward.

418
00:35:40,610 --> 00:35:46,170
But in conjunction with all the construction and that road specifically needs to tie in with all of their lateral roads

419
00:35:46,170 --> 00:35:47,770
in all of their town home roads.

420
00:35:48,350 --> 00:35:51,750
This deferral is necessary to say, we'll build up to that point,

421
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:53,550
and then when a lot five is developed

422
00:35:53,550 --> 00:35:55,350
with all of those individual site plans

423
00:35:55,350 --> 00:35:56,570
and all those additional roads,

424
00:35:56,730 --> 00:35:58,890
it's going to be constructed at that time.

425
00:35:59,030 --> 00:36:01,710
As opposed to when we do all of the remaining infrastructure

426
00:36:01,710 --> 00:36:02,450
for the project.

427
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:05,550
So that's the reason why this request is there.

428
00:36:06,110 --> 00:36:08,330
It's not, at any point in time,

429
00:36:08,390 --> 00:36:10,210
if for whatever reason, it's not NBR,

430
00:36:10,450 --> 00:36:12,270
and we have no reason to believe it isn't,

431
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:15,270
whoever develops a lot five will have to build that section

432
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:18,690
of the road in conjunction with when-lot-five comes.

433
00:36:18,850 --> 00:36:20,750
So I'm not sure if that answers questions

434
00:36:20,750 --> 00:36:22,350
or provides any additional context,

435
00:36:22,530 --> 00:36:24,330
but that's the reason for the deferral request.

436
00:36:24,510 --> 00:36:27,310
It's just timing-wise, and it makes all the sense

437
00:36:27,310 --> 00:36:29,770
in the world to do it when-lot-five is built,

438
00:36:30,350 --> 00:36:31,990
as opposed to building that road there,

439
00:36:32,110 --> 00:36:33,430
and then the lots come later.

440
00:36:34,150 --> 00:36:36,630
And just the piggyback on what Eric was saying.

441
00:36:36,930 --> 00:36:38,450
So I'll point the screen here.

442
00:36:39,070 --> 00:36:39,670
So we are going to...

443
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:40,690
Like closer to the mic, please.

444
00:36:41,850 --> 00:36:42,350
No worries.

445
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:47,430
We are going to build, is this the SpinoBric work street all the way through to the property boundary.

446
00:36:47,690 --> 00:36:49,690
That point that is when NVR is going to pick it up.

447
00:36:49,890 --> 00:36:53,090
In this comprehensive plan road, it's been designed to city standards.

448
00:36:53,850 --> 00:36:56,430
And then ultimately the Frederick Exchange, which was approved over here,

449
00:36:57,050 --> 00:36:57,910
will line to that.

450
00:36:58,150 --> 00:37:00,550
So ultimately, one of the, you call this the Wolf Park.

451
00:37:00,630 --> 00:37:01,430
I'm sorry.

452
00:37:01,490 --> 00:37:03,530
I'm having a very difficult time hearing you.

453
00:37:03,650 --> 00:37:10,550
And it's not because of the microphone closed so much as if you could just speak a little more distinctly.

454
00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:12,190
That would be helpful.

455
00:37:12,650 --> 00:37:12,870
Thank you.

456
00:37:13,050 --> 00:37:17,190
So what I was saying, excuse me, is brickwork street right here.

457
00:37:17,370 --> 00:37:19,050
This is the Spinder of the Comprehensive Plan Road.

458
00:37:19,230 --> 00:37:22,330
We are going to be building all that along the Pug Mill and Lower Depot.

459
00:37:22,730 --> 00:37:26,070
And we're going to be ending it at the Lot 5 property boundary.

460
00:37:26,330 --> 00:37:27,530
NVR is going to pick it up.

461
00:37:27,790 --> 00:37:32,590
This comprehensive plan road has been designed in accordance with the city.

462
00:37:32,830 --> 00:37:35,410
And ultimately, we'll end at the Eastern property boundary,

463
00:37:35,930 --> 00:37:38,950
which would align with where Frederick Exchange is right here.

464
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:46,250
So, ultimately, once we call this the Wolf parcel is developed, the road will fully extend to further exchange.

465
00:37:47,730 --> 00:37:56,130
We were required to design this road and conformance with whatever the comprehensive plan is for that street to continue beyond our property boundary.

466
00:37:56,930 --> 00:38:03,250
So, that's why that alignment is there. Future sections will be built by future developers as they come along.

467
00:38:03,250 --> 00:38:13,890
A lot five, we control as part of our development, but as we said, we're just asking for this deferral because so it can be constructed when law five is constructed as opposed to an advance.

468
00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:22,910
So the deferral is for the construction, but you will be fully designing it so that when it's ready for construction, it's shovel ready.

469
00:38:24,350 --> 00:38:24,610
Correct.

470
00:38:25,630 --> 00:38:25,670
Yes.

471
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:36,570
So my concern has something to do with the many other people in this room,

472
00:38:36,570 --> 00:38:41,790
today. And what happens with developments too often is

473
00:38:41,790 --> 00:38:49,430
part of it gets built and is expected to be and kind of ends somewhere or something gets built.

474
00:38:49,950 --> 00:38:59,810
And another party is supposed to take care of it. And the people who are moving there don't necessarily know what the plans,

475
00:38:59,810 --> 00:39:01,490
what the original plans were,

476
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:11,040
or sometimes what future plans can be, I understand that taking

477
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:18,360
that to the end of your property as a whole actually connects it to nothing. There's nothing

478
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,840
there to connect to. But the fact is, where you're proposing taking it to,

479
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,740
there's nothing

480
00:39:27,740 --> 00:39:36,800
to give a deferral like that, because, again, I would prefer that people who are moving into that area

481
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:43,540
know exactly what's coming, and I don't want them to think, oh, here's a call to Zach,

482
00:39:43,940 --> 00:39:46,120
and that other properties are going to stay empty.

483
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:50,090
That's...

484
00:39:50,090 --> 00:39:50,970
So, I'm not there yet.

485
00:39:51,250 --> 00:39:59,010
Well, I guess to further explain, that road is going to be approved and permitted and bonded.

486
00:39:59,010 --> 00:40:06,390
And the question is really just, as we're building out all of this infrastructure, it's being

487
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:12,950
deferred strictly so the person and we are constructing a lot of five can do it on their

488
00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:17,470
bonds and their permitting and conjunction with all the other roads that they're building.

489
00:40:17,550 --> 00:40:21,030
It is not intended to say, hey, this is going to build 10 years from now.

490
00:40:21,310 --> 00:40:26,950
It's intended, so that section of the roadway can be part of the bonding and the construction

491
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:30,610
in the grading permits with everything that goes on on law five.

492
00:40:30,830 --> 00:40:32,070
That's really the only reason for it.

493
00:40:32,230 --> 00:40:34,870
It is not to say, hey, we may not build this and we're just,

494
00:40:35,010 --> 00:40:37,930
yes, in other words, everything that you see here will be built,

495
00:40:38,230 --> 00:40:39,330
but it's two different developers.

496
00:40:39,970 --> 00:40:43,310
It's being deferred because it's a separate developer building

497
00:40:43,310 --> 00:40:45,690
and not because of, it's not.

498
00:40:46,250 --> 00:40:46,270
It's not.

499
00:40:46,270 --> 00:40:48,590
It's being requested to be deferred.

500
00:40:52,690 --> 00:40:56,630
And what, my late husband and I bought our first house

501
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:57,890
in front of town village.

502
00:40:58,930 --> 00:41:01,890
Surface app all of Arden was supposed to be built also

503
00:41:02,510 --> 00:41:04,110
and the developer went bankrupt.

504
00:41:06,210 --> 00:41:08,290
There was a park that was supposed to be built.

505
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:10,410
The developer went bankrupt.

506
00:41:11,550 --> 00:41:17,510
What ended up being built was later than it should have been.

507
00:41:17,530 --> 00:41:21,590
And the city actually had to pay for parts of that.

508
00:41:22,250 --> 00:41:25,350
It was originally not supposed to have to pay for it.

509
00:41:25,350 --> 00:41:28,910
So while I understand what you're saying to me,

510
00:41:29,930 --> 00:41:32,310
I'm just not necessarily agreeing with you.

511
00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:36,070
There is a difference in not understanding something

512
00:41:36,070 --> 00:41:38,370
and not agreeing with it.

513
00:41:38,390 --> 00:41:44,010
And I'm not there in agreement with you at this point.

514
00:41:44,210 --> 00:41:45,970
Doesn't mean that I can't get there.

515
00:41:48,430 --> 00:41:53,030
But when you say they're being built in conjunction with one another,

516
00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:57,630
I would love to have that other developer, you're saying, yes, and we're willing to sign.

517
00:41:58,270 --> 00:42:02,450
Paperwork, saying that we're going to build this out, this particular part of the road out.

518
00:42:02,670 --> 00:42:04,490
We're going to build that out at the same time.

519
00:42:05,870 --> 00:42:15,370
And we'll happy to address that and either before the next round of discussions or the reality is as correct as I'm wrong.

520
00:42:15,450 --> 00:42:17,490
It is a condition to develop a lot of five.

521
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:22,030
That road has to be built or you will not have anyone living on a lot of five.

522
00:42:22,030 --> 00:42:26,110
That's part of all of their permits and approvals right now, which we can come back to you and

523
00:42:26,110 --> 00:42:33,570
again I understand and please please don't treat this as though I don't understand.

524
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:40,790
I understand that it has to be built for a lot of five to be developed completely understand.

525
00:42:41,230 --> 00:42:44,970
My question is timing. That's my question.

526
00:42:44,970 --> 00:42:55,270
So, or my concern, it's a concern, we're in a question, and if you already have a developer

527
00:42:55,270 --> 00:43:04,310
who is planning on developing that lot, I personally would be much more comfortable with

528
00:43:04,310 --> 00:43:11,910
them, sign and agreement that they're going to build the rest of that roadway at the same

529
00:43:11,910 --> 00:43:16,310
like right as the part that you're building gets built and then they're going to finish that

530
00:43:16,310 --> 00:43:23,310
enough and they'll finish their development as it gets done but it will like it done at the same

531
00:43:23,310 --> 00:43:30,950
time. To that end isn't that what the bonding does. The thing that the bonding does not do is

532
00:43:33,060 --> 00:43:40,040
let the people who are moving to that area know exactly what's planned and we all know that people should

533
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:51,080
book, but they do not. There are those who do, but a majority of them do not.

534
00:43:51,740 --> 00:44:10,260
Okay. So just to be clear today's meeting is not a decision-making meeting. What we will do is decide whether or not to

535
00:44:10,260 --> 00:44:17,600
use to discuss and iron out any concerns and there will be five people making a decision

536
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:18,540
at a later date.

537
00:44:19,340 --> 00:44:22,280
So if there's anything else that you want any other questions you have?

538
00:44:22,780 --> 00:44:26,660
I'm sorry, I think I'm not being, I think maybe I'm not being clear.

539
00:44:27,460 --> 00:44:31,920
I believe we have to vote to move it to a public hearing and you don't have my vote.

540
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:42,560
Since this is an agreement and non-ordinance or resolution, it's not really part of our legislative

541
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:43,120
process.

542
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:48,900
for saying it, so I think this is more or less a workshop, so just as if in the past.

543
00:44:49,260 --> 00:44:52,380
Okay, so we don't need a motion, we'll just, okay, I appreciate that.

544
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:53,640
Thank you.

545
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,140
New process is always something.

546
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:56,860
Okay.

547
00:44:58,120 --> 00:44:59,980
Were there any other questions that you had, council member?

548
00:45:11,490 --> 00:45:29,670
Now, that's everything I think we're talking about it, but just quickly speak to the logistical requirements of the code. So before they can record any of these plots. So because this project is made up of multiple developers, ultimately, before this developer can sell to the other developers such as

549
00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:35,510
five, the plots need to be recorded for those lots, but before any of the lots, these big

550
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:40,150
parcels can be recorded, all of the public improvements shown on the preliminary plot

551
00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:43,470
have to be bonded, and public works agreements have to be executed.

552
00:45:44,210 --> 00:45:50,230
So there's kind of a logistical issue when you have a project that is going to be divided

553
00:45:50,230 --> 00:45:56,530
up and ultimately developed in sections by different developers, because they can't divest

554
00:45:56,530 --> 00:46:02,110
themselves from one portion without subdividing it, and in order to subdivide it, they have

555
00:46:02,110 --> 00:46:06,310
to bond all those improvements, but this developer doesn't want to bond the improvements

556
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:12,650
for another project, another portion of the project that are also shown on that development

557
00:46:12,650 --> 00:46:20,070
plan. So it's, I don't think it's as much related to the long term deferral like we do in

558
00:46:20,070 --> 00:46:25,350
some instances where our developers look, this isn't necessary to be constructed right now,

559
00:46:25,350 --> 00:46:28,330
because this is a road going to nowhere and we don't want to do it.

560
00:46:28,510 --> 00:46:33,070
This is really more about the timing of allowing the development to proceed through the subdivision

561
00:46:33,070 --> 00:46:38,110
and development process in accordance with those requirements for bonding and public work

562
00:46:38,110 --> 00:46:38,590
agreements.

563
00:46:38,890 --> 00:46:40,270
So just want to have that.

564
00:46:42,740 --> 00:46:44,520
I understand that.

565
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:53,320
I still don't think that it stops any of the developers, all of the developers, signing

566
00:46:53,320 --> 00:47:02,470
contracts saying they're going to provide those public improvements at the same time.

567
00:47:03,030 --> 00:47:06,770
I don't see how what you're saying changes that in the least.

568
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:13,700
I mean, we do have the Planning Commission, I've lost track of my development.

569
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,260
They've approved the lot five preliminary plot on Monday.

570
00:47:18,020 --> 00:47:21,280
The Planning Commission approved the further subdivision of lot five.

571
00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:23,180
So where that section of road will go through.

572
00:47:23,180 --> 00:47:28,100
So, you know, there's always the possibility that everything goes belly up and nothing moves forward.

573
00:47:28,140 --> 00:47:30,980
But the planning mission just granted the preliminary plot approval.

574
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:36,320
So that developer now in the sequencing of things would be going into their improvement plan designs,

575
00:47:36,860 --> 00:47:40,720
starting to design that section of road associated with the improvement plan.

576
00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:43,520
They would bond and enter into the public works agreement.

577
00:47:44,020 --> 00:47:50,080
And they too would have to have that completed before they would subdivide any of the residential lots.

578
00:47:51,660 --> 00:47:53,940
Just if the sequencing helps.

579
00:47:56,780 --> 00:47:58,640
Would you be open to quick questions, sorry.

580
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,900
Again, I feel like I'm being told the same thing again and again and I understand it.

581
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:04,960
So,

582
00:48:07,700 --> 00:48:09,220
if there's no more questions.

583
00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:14,320
Well, I was going to just because I want to be prepared to do our homework for when this comes back again.

584
00:48:14,540 --> 00:48:20,860
I mean, is it, is us showing the bonding of it and the permitting of it,

585
00:48:20,860 --> 00:48:23,020
and that progress or that doesn't satisfy your concern.

586
00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:25,440
The fact that it will be bonded at the same time

587
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,740
this plat is recorded that I'm just curious if that's

588
00:48:28,740 --> 00:48:31,460
and that's some of the information you're looking for.

589
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,160
So I'm one of five.

590
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:43,240
My concern has to do with it being done at the same time.

591
00:48:43,980 --> 00:48:45,920
So just bonding it.

592
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,280
Truly there are roads that then were bonded,

593
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,720
but they still didn't get built for years and years and years.

594
00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:00,900
So I'm looking for an agreement that they will build it

595
00:49:00,900 --> 00:49:02,180
at the same time.

596
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,560
So that's truly, that's all I'm looking for.

597
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,240
Is it agreement that you're building them

598
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:10,700
as you noted earlier in conjunction with one another?

599
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:12,540
That's all I'm looking for.

600
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:15,160
Okay, thank you.

601
00:49:17,100 --> 00:49:19,260
Is there any public comment on this item?

602
00:49:21,930 --> 00:49:23,050
All right, thank you so much.

603
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,140
Sorry, I'm talking a little bit difficult to use up here.

604
00:49:34,660 --> 00:49:37,380
Okay, so this moves us to our final item today,

605
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:40,840
and we have a large audience for it.

606
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:41,220
Welcome.

607
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,880
We don't usually have this many people, so it's nice to see your faces.

608
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,020
This is a discussion of a request for the city to assume ownership

609
00:49:50,020 --> 00:49:53,540
and maintenance of the Wormons Mill Emergency Access Road

610
00:49:53,540 --> 00:49:54,940
and Bridge.

611
00:49:54,940 --> 00:50:01,500
and I'll just note again that if you have submitted e-commence or e-mails, they are part of the record.

612
00:50:02,220 --> 00:50:08,240
You don't need to come up and testify or give public comment when this is over. You certainly may.

613
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,320
But we do have a hard stop at three. Just to let you know.

614
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:15,820
And with that, I'll let Tracy begin.

615
00:50:15,820 --> 00:50:16,920
Good

616
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:28,190
afternoon, test, test, test, test, we're good.

617
00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:32,470
Tracy Coleman, Deputy Director of Public Works.

618
00:50:33,590 --> 00:50:37,210
Thank you for the opportunity to share this.

619
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:42,330
Request with you as Council Member Russell pointed out.

620
00:50:42,570 --> 00:50:45,730
This is a request from the Mormon's Mill Conservancy.

621
00:50:45,730 --> 00:51:07,630
I'll make noise, sorry, that the city consider and determine that the obligations in the road declaration, which is one of your attachments, are no longer required, and that the city assume ownership, liability, and maintenance responsibilities of the emergency access road and bridge that crosses Tuskora Creek.

622
00:51:07,630 --> 00:51:21,210
Give you a little bit of background, actually, Clara, could we put up Exhibit 8, the GIS,

623
00:51:21,850 --> 00:51:23,150
Parkland exhibit,

624
00:51:25,300 --> 00:51:27,760
oh, you can't, okay, all right, nevermind.

625
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,120
So there is an exhibit, exhibit 8 will help.

626
00:51:31,380 --> 00:51:40,240
It is a GIS showing the location of the bridge where the Parkland is and where the HOA

627
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:49,840
open space are eight seven's also it's a seven is a plat, but yeah I was on seven and I was like

628
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:57,500
I knew that I knew that I had seen a different one. Okay so for a little bit of background

629
00:51:57,500 --> 00:52:04,380
and I apologize for reading some of this but I want to make sure I give you enough information

630
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:14,580
In February 1999, the City Planning Commission approved the Women's Mil P&D, 92-05R,

631
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:20,480
with several conditions, including the requirement to provide an emergency access road

632
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:27,220
in Bridge across the Tuscore Creek, to provide vehicular access, should the Mil Island Bridge

633
00:52:27,220 --> 00:52:34,260
or Mil Island Parkway Bridge become inaccessible, and the conditions further required that the

634
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:49,260
I've included this specific conditions below for your ready reference and I've also attached the planning commission conditional approval letter that's attachment C3.

635
00:52:50,380 --> 00:53:05,360
Condition five establishes the requirement for the access road in bridge and also basically assigns the HOA or the planning commission's desire to assign the HOA the maintenance responsibility.

636
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:15,440
And then Condition six is a requirement of the developer to create all the documentation assigning that maintenance responsibility.

637
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:22,270
Thank you. Yes, that's the one. I'll get to that in a moment.

638
00:53:24,790 --> 00:53:34,710
So there are other documents that I wanted to highlight. The HOA documents, if you will,

639
00:53:34,830 --> 00:53:40,590
that are mentioned, are the Declaration of Covenants and Conditions and Restrictions

640
00:53:40,590 --> 00:53:46,670
of the Warmen's Mill Conservancy. Those are recorded in the Frederick County Land Records.

641
00:53:48,030 --> 00:53:57,770
They were originally recorded in 1988, rather than revising these Conservancy Covenants,

642
00:53:58,650 --> 00:54:04,570
the developer created supplemental documents with the intent of meeting the Planning Commission's

643
00:54:06,650 --> 00:54:14,430
In August 2000, warm-all development, the developer recorded a declaration of Covenants

644
00:54:14,430 --> 00:54:17,050
that I will refer to as the road's declaration.

645
00:54:18,830 --> 00:54:24,950
It assign responsibility for maintenance of the emergency access road and bridge to the

646
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:29,290
lots on-mill island. That is also an attachment.

647
00:54:31,310 --> 00:54:35,240
Number four, I believe.

648
00:54:38,860 --> 00:54:45,160
I included some of the language in it. I won't read that. You can read it yourself if you would

649
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,600
And I can answer questions about it.

650
00:54:47,660 --> 00:55:00,300
I did want to point out that section or paragraph three of the road's declaration states that in the event that the lots are annexed and made subject to the effect and operation of the

651
00:55:00,300 --> 00:55:01,700
We'll call them HOA documents.

652
00:55:02,700 --> 00:55:07,540
The road declaration may be superseded and nullified by a supplementary declaration.

653
00:55:07,540 --> 00:55:09,540
And there's a bit more in there.

654
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:11,300
I'm not going to read it all.

655
00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:15,500
And then beginning in June of 2006,

656
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,500
the developer began recording the supplementary declarations

657
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,120
for the lots in section seven and eight,

658
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,100
the Mill Island portion of the Mormon's Mill community.

659
00:55:26,860 --> 00:55:29,980
The primary purpose of those supplementary declarations

660
00:55:29,980 --> 00:55:33,340
is to serve as that instrument that annexes lots

661
00:55:33,340 --> 00:55:34,540
into the Conservancy.

662
00:55:34,540 --> 00:55:43,380
Each supplementary declaration also includes a statement indicating that the lots reference

663
00:55:43,380 --> 00:55:47,760
shall continue to be subject to all provisions of the road's declaration.

664
00:55:51,220 --> 00:55:58,280
So while the developer may have intended to assign the conservancy, the responsibility to maintain

665
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:03,900
emergency road and bridge on behalf of the property owners by creating these various documents.

666
00:56:05,380 --> 00:56:09,840
There is some disagreement as to whether they clearly do.

667
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:14,840
City staff's position is that they do, but we're not here to argue that today.

668
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:21,580
We're here to determine if we as a city are willing to take on the responsibility.

669
00:56:21,580 --> 00:56:29,240
I put this in here so that you are aware of the progress of the documentation.

670
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,300
Make sure I read what I plan to.

671
00:56:37,260 --> 00:56:42,720
And then to further complicate the matter because having all those documents is very

672
00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:45,060
complicating to get through.

673
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,900
The road and bridge cross two properties with different owners.

674
00:56:48,900 --> 00:56:57,140
So, as you can see above, in this exhibit, and with one of the other items attached, the

675
00:56:57,140 --> 00:57:04,360
platt, the city has been deeded the parkland to the north of the Tuscorer Creek.

676
00:57:06,140 --> 00:57:14,040
In this area, the conservancy was deeded the open space to the south of Tuscorer Creek.

677
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:22,760
And so, the road exists on both the north side and the south side, the bridge, of course, crosses the river.

678
00:57:23,100 --> 00:57:27,080
So it's right smack dive in the middle, which is where the property line is.

679
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:37,940
The parkland, unless you want details on those particular properties, I'll skip over that part.

680
00:57:40,100 --> 00:57:47,500
Both the deeds include language conveying the respective parcels together with all the buildings, improvements, ways and easements, etc.

681
00:57:48,880 --> 00:58:01,600
This language has led to some confusion because it has been taken to mean that the portion of the road, that a portion of the road and bridge on each parcel have been conveyed to each parcel owner.

682
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:11,800
excuse me. I'll slow down. However, the deeds also include language stating the conveyed property is subject, however,

683
00:58:12,580 --> 00:58:19,580
to all easements, covenants, conditions, etc., which means that the requirements of the road declaration remain in effect.

684
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:26,320
And again, I bring this to you just to so that you understand the documentation that is in place.

685
00:58:28,380 --> 00:58:36,960
The both needs do reference the 30-foot wide emergency access easement that is dedicated to the city in two-fredder county.

686
00:58:37,660 --> 00:58:53,340
Again, the intent of this roadway is for vehicular emergency access should the surface of the bridge on Mill Island Parkway be blocked and that they can't access it.

687
00:58:54,900 --> 00:59:01,080
The emergency access bridge was constructed in 2002 and the road was constructed in 2003,

688
00:59:01,540 --> 00:59:03,200
or at least they were finished in those years.

689
00:59:03,460 --> 00:59:06,420
I'm sure they were under construction before that.

690
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,460
They were designed in accordance with the Planning Commission requirements.

691
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:14,600
The developer coordinated with the city engineer and the Frederick County Fire Martial

692
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,500
to develop those design requirements.

693
00:59:17,980 --> 00:59:21,800
When the design was completed, it was reviewed and approved by the city engineer.

694
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:27,000
the Frederick County Fire Marshall, the Maryland Department of Environment, and eventually FEMA.

695
00:59:28,700 --> 00:59:31,120
The road of bridge are in a good condition.

696
00:59:31,820 --> 00:59:38,180
The Conservancy has repaired some erosion around the bridge, abutment, wing walls, and

697
00:59:38,180 --> 00:59:43,860
replaced about 85 square feet of an approach on the north side of asphalt.

698
00:59:44,860 --> 00:59:50,540
One thing I did want to just state for the record, the city did not direct any of these

699
00:59:50,540 --> 00:59:51,200
pairs.

700
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:59,620
In 2021, the manager of the Conservancy came to the city.

701
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:08,600
And honestly, that's when this whole onion fell apart, and we learned who was responsible for what?

702
01:00:12,140 --> 01:00:25,900
Until the need for the repair was identified in 2021, as I mentioned, neither the conservatory manager nor the city staff were aware that maintenance and repair of the bridge and the road was not the responsibility of the developer.

703
01:00:25,900 --> 01:00:44,140
We thought it was still under a bond, it was not, or the city, at the same time, it became apparent that Department of Fire Rescue Services were also unaware that the Rotem Bridge existed, which is basically its primary purpose.

704
01:00:45,100 --> 01:00:52,400
I can assure you that Frederick County DFRS, at least the top guy, is aware that the

705
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:57,280
road in bridge exists and should be available should the need arise.

706
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:04,060
And I am happy to say, and I think some of the comments that have been provided back

707
01:01:04,060 --> 01:01:08,920
this up, but it's never been used for its intended purpose, which is a great thing.

708
01:01:10,340 --> 01:01:11,460
Let's see.

709
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:15,120
Let's do it.

710
01:01:18,890 --> 01:01:20,410
Let me see.

711
01:01:24,780 --> 01:01:32,500
Just one thing that I would like to note. So me, we

712
01:01:32,500 --> 01:01:34,380
staff made a recommendation.

713
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,560
It's written in here and I would like to note that the only

714
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:45,040
reason that I made the recommendation is because of the purpose of the road in bridge.

715
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:55,820
It's intended or they, in combination are intended to be used for emergency access by the city or a Frederick County.

716
01:01:58,060 --> 01:02:09,800
Many HOAs, including the Conservancy, maintain somewhat major pieces of infrastructure, roads, alleys, stormwater facilities, community centers, pools.

717
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:17,440
We even have an older townhouse community responsible for their water distribution and sewer collection system.

718
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:24,600
I'm not aware of any that are required to maintain an emergency access road or bridge,

719
01:02:24,620 --> 01:02:30,020
so I wasn't aware that this requirement existed before 2021.

720
01:02:31,980 --> 01:02:41,540
However, again, my recommendation for releasing the lots and basically nullifying the roads

721
01:02:41,540 --> 01:02:48,360
covenant is because I feel that by taking ownership the city would ensure that the bridge

722
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:56,840
is kept. In the condition necessary for use by the city, and DFRS should it need to be used,

723
01:02:58,580 --> 01:03:03,000
And with that, I will be happy to answer any questions.

724
01:03:07,660 --> 01:03:13,000
So if I might, I actually was on that planning commission that made that decision and

725
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:14,620
on that board of older men.

726
01:03:16,300 --> 01:03:21,640
And to say we didn't see this coming would be far-fetched.

727
01:03:21,820 --> 01:03:23,580
We absolutely saw this coming.

728
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:29,200
the board of Alderman did at least the planning to wish they

729
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:33,680
think was, and it was my first year in office and I was a bit

730
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:41,100
naive. So I can care with staff that the, it's

731
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:45,400
unfair to expect that

732
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:51,660
consistency is going to take care of this. It is, but I would, but I do

733
01:03:51,660 --> 01:03:54,720
have a couple of questions about it.

734
01:03:55,260 --> 01:03:58,380
So before you go on, I just want to let you know that we also

735
01:03:58,380 --> 01:04:02,360
have a representative of the Conservancy here, Jim Hubbard,

736
01:04:02,900 --> 01:04:06,280
who was a promise him an opportunity to talk with us

737
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,600
about the information that he has served about 10 minutes.

738
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:15,500
And then I thought you had the baby that will help.

739
01:04:15,980 --> 01:04:19,160
Yeah, I wasn't sure how if we were to do a staff thing for us.

740
01:04:20,140 --> 01:04:22,800
So welcome, would you just tell us your name in general address?

741
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:23,540
Thank you.

742
01:04:23,540 --> 01:04:24,720
My name is Jim Hubbard.

743
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:26,680
Address is 2303.

744
01:04:27,060 --> 01:04:31,160
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

745
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,180
And I represent the Board of Trustees of the Conservancy.

746
01:04:35,700 --> 01:04:42,120
I'm going to build on what Tracy said and go to 2021 when a repair was deemed necessary.

747
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,000
Can you just pull the I'm sorry, the microphone.

748
01:04:45,340 --> 01:04:46,740
Yeah, are you doing the same thing I am?

749
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:48,340
Let me get a little closer.

750
01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:48,840
Perfect.

751
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:51,780
Thank you.

752
01:04:51,780 --> 01:04:53,000
Thank you.

753
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:53,540
Thank you.

754
01:04:53,540 --> 01:04:59,260
The repair was completed in the Conservancy Board assessed each law donor for an appropriate

755
01:04:59,260 --> 01:05:01,600
basis for the cost of the repair.

756
01:05:02,300 --> 01:05:05,660
They also set up a reserve fund for future maintenance and repairs.

757
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:12,320
This came as a very huge surprise to the members of the law donors on Mill Island.

758
01:05:12,700 --> 01:05:16,660
Nobody knew that declaration existed and I'll tell you why.

759
01:05:16,660 --> 01:05:19,960
I miss Gazette and Chuck, you mentioned that they don't read it.

760
01:05:20,060 --> 01:05:25,660
When I went to settlement on my property, the homeowner document is literally that thick.

761
01:05:26,820 --> 01:05:31,960
And it's, that road declaration is about three inches down in the middle of all that paper

762
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:32,320
work.

763
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:33,860
There was no way to read it.

764
01:05:34,020 --> 01:05:41,100
Nobody knew it existed, ultimately, the road declaration became public knowledge, and it

765
01:05:41,100 --> 01:05:43,300
caused a lot of consternation and confusion.

766
01:05:43,300 --> 01:05:49,700
And the board then decided that since there was nothing in the road declaration requiring the

767
01:05:49,700 --> 01:05:56,360
HOA to administer the process of maintenance and repair that they had no obligation and

768
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:58,580
no authority to do the assessments.

769
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:05,560
So they dissolved the reserve fund and that money was refunded.

770
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:21,580
Since the paratocost of the repair was taken from a reserve from another portion of the reserve fund, the board felt it necessary to repay that, and therefore the repair portion of the assessment was not refunded.

771
01:06:22,620 --> 01:06:26,460
That's still under discussion in the community when I won't get into it here.

772
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:46,260
When the Wormall companies needed their land to the city and to the Conservancy in 2023 I believe it was the left all the park land north of the Creek to the city.

773
01:06:46,620 --> 01:06:51,720
It's now a park land. The rest of the property south of the Creek now belongs to the Conservancy.

774
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:55,200
The property line runs right through the middle of that bridge.

775
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,620
So you own part of it and we own part of it.

776
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:00,820
So the question is who pays?

777
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,140
Well that leaves us in a quandary.

778
01:07:04,140 --> 01:07:08,080
Given the fact that the HOA has absolved itself

779
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,660
of any responsibility or authority

780
01:07:11,460 --> 01:07:14,360
to assess funds for repair and maintenance,

781
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,520
there's no practical way to pay for any future repairs.

782
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:26,140
either the city goes to court and forces the HOA to perform on it or the city bills each

783
01:07:26,140 --> 01:07:33,900
homeowner. And I'm not prepared to speculate on what might happen if 657 lot owners get

784
01:07:33,900 --> 01:07:39,000
an assessment from the city for a road and bridge that belongs to the city. That's a if he

785
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:45,780
proposition. The residents of Wormons Mill are now paying for liability insurance on city

786
01:07:45,780 --> 01:07:52,060
property. And we wonder about the propriety of that. The emergency road and bridge is Tracy said

787
01:07:52,060 --> 01:07:58,700
has never been used in 23 years of existence. There in the road and bridge are in the flood

788
01:07:58,700 --> 01:08:03,480
pain. They are subject to flooding and snow cover. And I think you have been sent some pictures

789
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:04,840
about that.

790
01:08:07,610 --> 01:08:11,870
There has been another group associated and working on this and we have worked closely

791
01:08:11,870 --> 01:08:18,850
with them. They're known as the Concern Citizens. They wait in with city officials early on.

792
01:08:18,950 --> 01:08:22,310
And I think you'll hear from them today, and they've worked closely with us on this issue

793
01:08:22,310 --> 01:08:28,570
with the board and with myself. So we're asking for the city to vacate the road declaration

794
01:08:28,570 --> 01:08:34,910
by a warm held, and the city is soon full responsibility for the bridge and easement. And I thank

795
01:08:34,910 --> 01:08:39,670
you for this opportunity. I'm ready to answer questions. And I need to thank Tracy Coleman

796
01:08:39,670 --> 01:08:43,870
for her help in addressing this issue over the years.

797
01:08:44,530 --> 01:08:48,790
She was helpful in writing a history report for the board.

798
01:08:49,390 --> 01:08:50,150
So thank you, Tracy.

799
01:08:52,460 --> 01:08:52,780
Thank you.

800
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:54,000
Thank you, Mr. Trevor.

801
01:08:55,580 --> 01:08:58,040
So we'll field some questions now.

802
01:08:59,180 --> 01:09:00,980
Do you have any?

803
01:09:01,220 --> 01:09:03,360
I don't have any.

804
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,480
Well, I do have a couple of specific questions.

805
01:09:06,940 --> 01:09:08,560
I can't tell you who they're meant for though.

806
01:09:14,030 --> 01:09:19,230
Can you give me this sign-up sheet for I raise one, I'm trying to mine up here?

807
01:09:20,150 --> 01:09:21,810
So my first is a comment.

808
01:09:22,070 --> 01:09:26,570
My comment about not reading has nothing to do with buyers as a realtor.

809
01:09:26,790 --> 01:09:29,130
I know the amount of documents that you sign it closing.

810
01:09:29,790 --> 01:09:35,230
And that ends up being you have the plat and it's one line in about 20 lines on it.

811
01:09:36,670 --> 01:09:45,190
And this is different than where some things are located and what's planned there.

812
01:09:45,750 --> 01:09:47,630
So please, I didn't mean that as a put down.

813
01:09:49,530 --> 01:09:57,190
My question really has more to do with the bridge itself than would completely belong to the city.

814
01:09:57,190 --> 01:10:03,710
and the 30 feet right of way then would that all just become city property?

815
01:10:05,910 --> 01:10:12,150
Right now there is the easement that exists so it doesn't necessarily start like the

816
01:10:12,150 --> 01:10:22,070
30 feet of the 30 foot wide easement on the H-O-A side does not have to be conveyed.

817
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:24,730
I can't lay him fee simple, the easement exists.

818
01:10:27,370 --> 01:10:31,230
So one of my frustration in the years of research

819
01:10:31,230 --> 01:10:35,930
that I've done on this is that there is no written easement document.

820
01:10:36,450 --> 01:10:39,670
Typically, if there is any kind of an easement on a property,

821
01:10:39,810 --> 01:10:42,070
there's a written document that accompanies it.

822
01:10:43,010 --> 01:10:45,070
And it outlines roles, responsibilities,

823
01:10:45,870 --> 01:10:50,250
you know, I can give you examples, but I don't want to bore you with that.

824
01:10:50,970 --> 01:11:00,010
So, I think in this case, if we were to write up that easement document to accompany this,

825
01:11:00,010 --> 01:11:06,910
I'm sorry, to accompany the plat, refer to the plat where it identifies that 30 foot wide easement,

826
01:11:08,510 --> 01:11:18,890
we could have language in that that defines responsibility for maintenance of the structure and of the roadway all the way from

827
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:29,060
and mill race road, I'm sorry, all the way from mill race to the south where the 30 foot emergency easement ends.

828
01:11:29,540 --> 01:11:35,140
Okay, so it's not, it's not a problem, it's just another document that needs to be done at the same time.

829
01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:36,500
I think so.

830
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:48,620
And I do want to note that when we did this, when we insisted that there had to be some type of emergency access

831
01:11:49,340 --> 01:11:53,460
The Department of Foreign Rescue was absolutely

832
01:11:53,460 --> 01:11:56,480
to come and speak at the meeting and okay it,

833
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,440
because otherwise we would have never voted yes on it.

834
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:02,780
So I realize again, many, many, many years later,

835
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:06,360
but those things happen.

836
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:09,800
Yep, so no, I'm good, thank you very much.

837
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:15,860
OK, I don't have a question, but I do have some people

838
01:12:15,860 --> 01:12:17,040
signed up.

839
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:19,780
And so we'll go through the sign-up this first,

840
01:12:19,780 --> 01:12:23,000
And then if there's anybody else after that that wants to speak,

841
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:24,940
he can come up again if it's three minutes.

842
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:27,900
And then after all the public comment has been taken,

843
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,000
we'll bring it back up here and see if there's anything else

844
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:32,300
that we need to tie up with the loose ends.

845
01:12:33,420 --> 01:12:36,160
So I also wanted to mention that on our screen

846
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:40,340
is Mr. Rivia, who's the attorney for the conservancy

847
01:12:40,340 --> 01:12:43,920
from White Moore Taylor, and I forget, anyway.

848
01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:47,200
He has to be here virtually to support his crew.

849
01:12:47,740 --> 01:12:49,680
We don't anticipate needing anything from him

850
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:51,580
unless we have a legal question for him.

851
01:12:52,140 --> 01:12:54,500
So thanks for being here on the big screen.

852
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:59,060
So first, first we have Katherine Mansour.

853
01:12:59,660 --> 01:13:04,300
Is that we just need to state your name for the record

854
01:13:04,300 --> 01:13:05,400
and general address?

855
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:06,940
We don't need the street address unless you're

856
01:13:06,940 --> 01:13:07,200
the captain.

857
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:10,220
My name is Katherine Mansour and I resided

858
01:13:10,220 --> 01:13:11,960
what is known as Mel Island.

859
01:13:12,740 --> 01:13:15,000
As the others is stated or put in writing,

860
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:19,540
the bridge is really no way to emergence the access bridge.

861
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:23,320
It's underwater, whenever there's a flood,

862
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:26,760
as fire engines have gotten bigger and heavier,

863
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:29,800
I'm not sure it would support the current ones.

864
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:34,520
The fire trucks don't even know that it's there.

865
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:39,000
These are some concerns in the fact that we're asked

866
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:43,100
to be responsible to maintain it is really not just.

867
01:13:44,660 --> 01:13:47,380
I understand the land and even perhaps the road

868
01:13:47,380 --> 01:13:52,460
On both sides of where the bridges had been turned over to the city, by

869
01:13:53,020 --> 01:13:56,200
Warmald, and is now called Warmen's Mill Park.

870
01:13:56,480 --> 01:13:58,580
So this is a park that's open to the public.

871
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:05,700
Why should the residents just on one side of this bridge be responsible to remain

872
01:14:05,700 --> 01:14:08,320
pain of bridge that is in the city park?

873
01:14:09,100 --> 01:14:13,320
A park that's open to the public, not just the residents of Warmen's Mill.

874
01:14:14,060 --> 01:14:20,200
I kept pictures here, and I didn't manage to find your East Statement thing, so I will

875
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:21,240
email them to you.

876
01:14:21,580 --> 01:14:28,280
The shows pictures I took this morning of the two entrances to the road, the bridge itself,

877
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:34,680
and to show that the Shravery is, three limbs are hanging over the road, it's really not

878
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:38,060
very accessible to traffic, and it's not very wide.

879
01:14:38,180 --> 01:14:41,140
The bridge is a little wider, but the rest of the road isn't.

880
01:14:41,140 --> 01:14:48,620
I concur with the Department of Public Works recommendation that we really believe that we

881
01:14:48,620 --> 01:14:51,400
be relieved of this unjust responsibility.

882
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:53,120
Thank you very much.

883
01:14:53,540 --> 01:14:53,840
Thank you, Mayor.

884
01:14:54,580 --> 01:14:56,260
Next time our list is filled with our timer.

885
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:15,780
Thank you, ma'am. My name is Phil Berkheimer. I am the president of the Wormman's Mill Conservancy Board of Trustees

886
01:15:15,780 --> 01:15:25,100
and I'm a resident of the Tuskwarra condos in the Conservancy. First of all, let me thank you for hearing us.

887
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:33,520
Let me proceed that by thanking Tracy Coleman for all the work that she has done and Jim Hubbard for being a fantastic

888
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:38,980
representative for us throughout this entire process. We really appreciate what his

889
01:15:38,980 --> 01:15:41,880
has taken place and what they've done.

890
01:15:44,340 --> 01:15:47,580
I want to assure you that it is really appreciate,

891
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:54,640
although this only affects directly half of the residents of Web Warmen's mill,

892
01:15:55,120 --> 01:16:01,880
rest assured that all of them really appreciate what you're doing by letting us present this case.

893
01:16:02,860 --> 01:16:08,060
This is something that happened a quarter of a century ago.

894
01:16:09,060 --> 01:16:11,820
Nobody really was aware of what was going on,

895
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:16,100
and 20 years later they did become aware of it.

896
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:19,900
And it subsequently became a front burner item for us

897
01:16:19,900 --> 01:16:22,660
for the last three or four years.

898
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:29,860
Our current situation basically developed

899
01:16:29,860 --> 01:16:31,780
because things did become noticed.

900
01:16:31,780 --> 01:16:39,760
And, resolve a significant amount of divisiveness on the part of our community, and that's very unfortunate.

901
01:16:41,440 --> 01:16:48,660
The hearing today is the resolve of a great deal of work that's done by everyone to get this thing really under control.

902
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:56,960
A great deal of work by our residents and city staff, and we're certainly happy that you've done that for us.

903
01:16:57,860 --> 01:17:09,640
We sincerely hope that you will put this onerous issue to use an overused phrase into the dust

904
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:10,440
bin of history.

905
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:15,720
We would really just kind of like to see it disappear and we'd like to see you take over

906
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:16,240
everything.

907
01:17:16,780 --> 01:17:19,600
So, thank you very much for hearing me.

908
01:17:20,180 --> 01:17:20,840
Thanks, sir.

909
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:23,560
We have Dr. Wayne Ledbetter next.

910
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:24,360
Thank

911
01:17:29,710 --> 01:17:32,010
you to the Council for allowing us to speak.

912
01:17:33,890 --> 01:17:37,470
I am a resident of at Mill Island since 2007,

913
01:17:38,770 --> 01:17:41,830
and I represent the concerned residents of Mill Island.

914
01:17:42,610 --> 01:17:45,850
We are the resident arm, if you will, of the Conservancy,

915
01:17:46,030 --> 01:17:49,750
working conjunction with Mr. Hubbard and Mr. Perkheimer.

916
01:17:50,470 --> 01:17:54,930
And I don't have anything material to add to all the things that you have been provided,

917
01:17:54,930 --> 01:17:56,610
but I will point out three things.

918
01:17:56,610 --> 01:18:10,910
One is that you will see from the comments on the e-commerce that there is a universal support for the proposal to vacate the declaration and have your help with maintaining the bridge.

919
01:18:11,490 --> 01:18:17,150
I think that is representative in this case of the feelings of light feelings of our community.

920
01:18:17,150 --> 01:18:22,870
I would also call your attention to the images that we sent you of the bridge.

921
01:18:22,970 --> 01:18:28,650
I presume you got them good and then you can see that it's a lovely structure for recreational

922
01:18:28,650 --> 01:18:35,890
purposes used a ton for that reason and I think that it should be continued and that function

923
01:18:35,890 --> 01:18:43,690
would be lovely to have that feature in the new park so that's nice but it in the modern

924
01:18:43,690 --> 01:18:51,270
sense of the word with the new trucks and various things that are now answering emergencies.

925
01:18:51,990 --> 01:18:56,430
It probably has become obsolete in some ways.

926
01:18:57,210 --> 01:19:02,450
And then, thirdly, I would raise one issue that I haven't heard spoken about, and that's

927
01:19:02,450 --> 01:19:10,610
that we would look to the city to initiate a relief of the lean on our properties, which this

928
01:19:10,610 --> 01:19:18,970
was passively creates such that we have an obligation that we have to declare in any sales contract

929
01:19:19,830 --> 01:19:22,130
and then any other buyer has to assume.

930
01:19:22,670 --> 01:19:25,270
So we would need your help with that in the future.

931
01:19:25,710 --> 01:19:27,530
Thank you so much for your help in this matter.

932
01:19:28,730 --> 01:19:29,090
Thank you, Dr.

933
01:19:29,570 --> 01:19:36,570
We have next Edward Roy Conner and then Patricia Conner's Conner and then Patricia Conner

934
01:19:36,570 --> 01:19:38,630
and then Fred Stahl in that order.

935
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:45,480
Good afternoon. My name is Ed Woodroy Conner. I'm a resident of

936
01:19:45,480 --> 01:19:49,920
Mill Island and I am fatacly endorsed the DPW's recommendations or released a

937
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:54,940
lots from the obligation detailed in road declaration and for the city to assume

938
01:19:54,940 --> 01:19:59,440
ownership liability and maintenance responsibilities of the emergency access

939
01:19:59,440 --> 01:20:05,380
road and bridge crossing Tuscaroar Creek. When we bought our house on Mill Island we

940
01:20:05,380 --> 01:20:11,540
who had never informed of the obligation and or the related costs associated with the maintenance

941
01:20:11,540 --> 01:20:15,280
repair and replacement of the emergency road in bridge.

942
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:17,640
Let me be crystal clear on this.

943
01:20:17,980 --> 01:20:25,100
We were not told of nor presented with any related documents, especially the road declaration.

944
01:20:25,900 --> 01:20:33,060
We definitely did not sign or initial any acknowledgement of any document related to any such

945
01:20:33,060 --> 01:20:40,380
obligation. Any statement to the contrary is inaccurate. The law firm of white fatailer

946
01:20:40,380 --> 01:20:46,720
and pest and LLP, which represents the warmen's military and deconservancy, has communicated

947
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:53,920
with the city attorney Rachel Nesson. Based upon the road declaration, this law firm has noted

948
01:20:53,920 --> 01:21:00,220
that all of the individual lot owners are collectively responsible for the maintenance repair

949
01:21:00,220 --> 01:21:02,860
and replacement of this road in bridge.

950
01:21:03,380 --> 01:21:06,600
Additionally, they noted that the maintenance repair

951
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:09,260
and replacement of this road in bridge

952
01:21:09,260 --> 01:21:12,580
is neither a function nor an obligation

953
01:21:12,580 --> 01:21:17,140
of the Romance Null Community Conservancy, the HOA.

954
01:21:17,300 --> 01:21:20,460
Because of that, the HOA will not assess

955
01:21:20,460 --> 01:21:24,020
nor correct any funds related to the road in bridge

956
01:21:24,020 --> 01:21:28,360
from what owners normally enter into any further cleaning,

957
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:32,220
Maintenance or repair contracts related to the road and bridge.

958
01:21:32,940 --> 01:21:41,740
Therefore, the consideration is that the city will need to coordinate with all 657

959
01:21:41,740 --> 01:21:48,860
lot owners in order to effectuate any maintenance repair or replacement of the road or bridge.

960
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:51,400
This is an untenable situation.

961
01:21:52,260 --> 01:21:57,780
There are hundreds of mill island residents that expect their elected officials on the city council

962
01:21:57,780 --> 01:22:01,500
to do the right thing by releasing them from this obligation.

963
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:06,580
With the establishment of the City of Fredericks Womens Mill Park,

964
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:10,780
the vast majority of the emergency road in bridge,

965
01:22:12,060 --> 01:22:16,130
the road along with the bridge has been transferred to the city.

966
01:22:16,660 --> 01:22:19,260
Since the city now owns it mostly,

967
01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:22,760
the city should be at a responsibility for it

968
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:26,740
as it already does for similar roads throughout the city of Fredericks.

969
01:22:26,740 --> 01:22:28,440
Thank you for your time.

970
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:29,860
Thank you, Mr. Connor.

971
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:30,640
Mr. Connor?

972
01:22:34,390 --> 01:22:34,470
All right.

973
01:22:34,610 --> 01:22:35,130
Thank you.

974
01:22:35,290 --> 01:22:36,050
Appreciate that.

975
01:22:36,530 --> 01:22:37,350
Fred Stahl.

976
01:22:38,850 --> 01:22:40,170
No comments for Mr. Stahl.

977
01:22:40,290 --> 01:22:43,070
Is there anybody else who wishes to add public comments?

978
01:22:45,070 --> 01:22:49,320
We have, please give us your name and general address.

979
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:51,180
My name is Heidi Spurt.

980
01:22:51,460 --> 01:22:54,900
And I live on Monacacy Ford Road on Milan.

981
01:22:55,780 --> 01:22:57,820
And I'm not going to elaborate anything more.

982
01:22:57,820 --> 01:23:05,420
but I'm a bike writer and a walker and that road and bridge are used not just by

983
01:23:05,420 --> 01:23:10,180
warm and smell residents. All the people who are on water side and Tuscarora

984
01:23:10,180 --> 01:23:14,960
Knows also come down and walk in that area. It's not just for warm and

985
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:22,060
smell. That's it. Thank you. Thank you, man. And we have our esteemed former mayor

986
01:23:22,060 --> 01:23:25,780
Senator, Mr. Iranian, welcome.

987
01:23:27,220 --> 01:23:27,640
Thank you.

988
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:28,700
I'll be very quick.

989
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:33,060
I think most of what needs to be said has been said.

990
01:23:34,900 --> 01:23:37,180
Except I have a couple of things.

991
01:23:37,620 --> 01:23:41,520
I walk my dogs back there regularly as does my wife.

992
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:46,700
The so-called road is no wider now than a walking path.

993
01:23:47,540 --> 01:23:50,140
Most of the road was just gravel on its gone.

994
01:23:53,380 --> 01:24:00,620
The bridge, as it's been said, it's never been used and I think it probably never will be.

995
01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:07,760
And even whether we have it or the city takes it which I agree and hope you might.

996
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:13,260
I don't think it ever needs to be upgraded or a lot of money spent on it.

997
01:24:13,260 --> 01:24:21,400
There are real islands in the state that only have one bridge to them, and I say real islands

998
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:26,300
we're called Mill Island because of a creek in the river, but we're not really in Island

999
01:24:26,300 --> 01:24:32,220
as people know islands, and we have one good solid bridge going in.

1000
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:35,900
I've had people say, well what if there's an accident on that bridge?

1001
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:41,480
I was on the bridge committee, and one night walking up to it, there was an accident on

1002
01:24:41,480 --> 01:24:48,700
bridge, and they pulled the car over to one side, a police officer arrived, directed traffic

1003
01:24:48,700 --> 01:24:54,880
for 20 minutes in the one lane, they towed everybody away, and it was open again.

1004
01:24:56,140 --> 01:25:02,680
So whether we keep it, which I hope we don't, or the city takes it, it will be your choice

1005
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:08,900
if you do, but I don't really think that that bridge is necessary other than, as a walking

1006
01:25:08,900 --> 01:25:16,160
bridge, you can determine that but I doubt that it would ever be used and I would just hope

1007
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:22,360
is everyone asked that you relieve the residents back there of figuring out what to do if

1008
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:24,480
something happens. Thank you.

1009
01:25:24,740 --> 01:25:27,120
Thank you very much. Okay.

1010
01:25:29,390 --> 01:25:34,790
Last call for public comment. Do we have any more questions from

1011
01:25:34,790 --> 01:25:35,170
here.

1012
01:25:37,230 --> 01:25:43,430
So, there's been the comment was made about the relief of the lean, what have

1013
01:25:43,430 --> 01:25:51,130
he done at the same time as we are. Well, I actually would like to have some conversation

1014
01:25:51,130 --> 01:26:00,070
about the need for building an actual road there. I mean, I understand that the, I understand

1015
01:26:00,070 --> 01:26:03,990
and agree that the city should take over whatever we have,

1016
01:26:06,440 --> 01:26:07,800
but I think the point has been

1017
01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:14,220
well made and I remember the conversations back then that were happening really had to do with

1018
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:23,000
whether there was, whether if there was an accident on the road and at that time in the world

1019
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:29,980
There was concern about it being blown up.

1020
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:38,480
I remember having that conversation, and then there being no possible way to get to the island.

1021
01:26:40,460 --> 01:26:52,660
So I guess I would like city staff opinion on the need to continue with anything more than a footpath like path.

1022
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:57,660
And then I need to know about the lean.

1023
01:27:02,580 --> 01:27:06,860
So I wouldn't reduce what is there.

1024
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:10,300
I someplace in this pile of stuff.

1025
01:27:10,460 --> 01:27:13,560
I do have the requirements that were established.

1026
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:15,680
I'm

1027
01:27:18,820 --> 01:27:21,520
not going to search through those.

1028
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:24,700
As Mr. Young pointed out, it's fairly narrow.

1029
01:27:24,900 --> 01:27:26,140
The roadways for early narrow.

1030
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:34,260
It's supposed to be 20 feet wide of pavement because that's fire code, and I can explain

1031
01:27:34,260 --> 01:27:35,360
the reason for that.

1032
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:39,180
It doesn't have to be 20 feet wide, 12 feet is sufficient,

1033
01:27:41,220 --> 01:27:42,280
at least in that location.

1034
01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:51,920
We have a piece of infrastructure, it has an intended purpose, it was designed and constructed,

1035
01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:58,880
and it is sufficient to provide, to me, that intended purpose.

1036
01:28:02,510 --> 01:28:12,890
So until it becomes such a burden, cost-wise, I really, I don't want to give it up.

1037
01:28:12,990 --> 01:28:13,750
Let's just put it that way.

1038
01:28:14,010 --> 01:28:21,770
I don't think it's a great idea to say right now, you know, let's take it out and put something

1039
01:28:21,770 --> 01:28:24,530
And I don't think that was the intent of anybody here,

1040
01:28:26,690 --> 01:28:50,670
I just, I think it's I agree with some of the comments, it's a beautiful path for walkers, bikers, anybody who goes along that trail and it will be used more and more and more and more, especially as some of the other trails in the region are connected, for instance, the,

1041
01:28:51,870 --> 01:28:58,210
I forget what it's called, but it's running up, walkers will Southern, what is it? I can't read walkers will Southern, yes.

1042
01:28:59,050 --> 01:29:01,690
I can't see unless I have my glasses on, can't see you guys.

1043
01:29:03,590 --> 01:29:04,050
So

1044
01:29:07,340 --> 01:29:09,940
I wouldn't change it, let's just put it that way.

1045
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:19,880
The only thing that I would typically ask for in any time, anything is turned over to the city is that it is in good repair.

1046
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:28,060
that the city does not have to immediately spend, you know, a significant amount of money to get it in good repair.

1047
01:29:29,740 --> 01:29:35,460
So it's been, I don't know, six months or so maybe since the last time I was out there,

1048
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:38,880
I don't recall the road being in terrible disrepair.

1049
01:29:39,660 --> 01:29:42,720
So I don't think there are any issues with the roadway.

1050
01:29:43,660 --> 01:29:54,760
The only issues that I recall from the bridge were there was some minor cracking in the concrete on the wing walls of the abutment not the of the bridge not the abutment themselves.

1051
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:59,960
I could have our building maintenance crew go out with me we can take a look.

1052
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,880
So I can see if it's a fairly minor repair.

1053
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:09,780
So that's to the condition. And from before you leave that,

1054
01:30:09,780 --> 01:30:16,120
before you leave that, because I just want to ask on to that. So we had nobody's actually talked about money.

1055
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:28,860
Right? So just that of curiosity, do we know if it were? I guess we would send somebody out and inspect it if it's up to speed to the point where we would take it,

1056
01:30:28,860 --> 01:30:30,280
like it's in good repair.

1057
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:32,500
Do we have any projections on what

1058
01:30:32,500 --> 01:30:35,200
feature maintenance costs would be to the city?

1059
01:30:36,820 --> 01:30:39,780
I don't, but I can try to put together something

1060
01:30:39,780 --> 01:30:43,040
some kind of information with respect to that.

1061
01:30:45,040 --> 01:30:48,340
It's in the, one of the old reserve studies,

1062
01:30:49,340 --> 01:30:51,280
there's a dollar value I'm not going to dig through,

1063
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:58,500
that in 25 to 40 years from when it was built,

1064
01:30:58,860 --> 01:31:02,920
They were planning on potential major repairs.

1065
01:31:06,180 --> 01:31:08,600
It's not a very sophisticated bridge.

1066
01:31:08,860 --> 01:31:11,660
It's got stringers, steel beams,

1067
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:17,080
and a deck, concrete abutments.

1068
01:31:17,540 --> 01:31:19,000
It's a fairly simple structure.

1069
01:31:19,280 --> 01:31:22,140
Most of that, honestly, could be repaired

1070
01:31:22,140 --> 01:31:24,880
by our building maintenance staff.

1071
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:26,940
Great, thank you.

1072
01:31:27,500 --> 01:31:28,220
Okay.

1073
01:31:30,380 --> 01:31:35,360
So I'm not an attorney, I am not going to try to speak as an attorney, but I'm going to try

1074
01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:43,100
to outline what I think probably should happen. We would create some kind of a document

1075
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:53,500
to, again, not an attorney extinguish. The road's declaration, somehow that could be found

1076
01:31:55,610 --> 01:32:03,630
by the when searching for the documents that are the supplementary declarations that I described.

1077
01:32:05,290 --> 01:32:07,970
I'm confusing you. Maybe I should stop talking.

1078
01:32:09,570 --> 01:32:16,610
No, it's not confusing me as elected official. You're confusing me as a realtor.

1079
01:32:17,630 --> 01:32:24,630
So, right. So, I think a lean is created because there's, yeah, because the title

1080
01:32:24,630 --> 01:32:29,750
company, there's a declaration, there's a covenant, there's something attached to that property.

1081
01:32:30,890 --> 01:32:37,170
So, again, to try to be, because I only can see it really, I think, in a simple form,

1082
01:32:37,310 --> 01:32:43,090
because I haven't really thought about how to do it yet, would be to kind of go backwards.

1083
01:32:45,250 --> 01:32:52,710
and somehow have a document that's created that is found when searching, when doing the

1084
01:32:52,710 --> 01:33:00,970
title search for individual properties. So I have an example and I have provided it to the

1085
01:33:00,970 --> 01:33:07,250
Council before of a supplementary declaration, right? And those supplementary declarations

1086
01:33:07,250 --> 01:33:10,670
are specific to groups of lots,

1087
01:33:16,150 --> 01:33:18,930
and on the supplementary declaration, there is a statement,

1088
01:33:19,310 --> 01:33:23,890
and it's in my executive summary, exactly what it says, it says that the road's covenant

1089
01:33:26,430 --> 01:33:29,630
is still subject to the road's declaration.

1090
01:33:30,030 --> 01:33:39,670
I think if we create something that is attached to somehow every single one of the lots, a title

1091
01:33:39,670 --> 01:33:46,390
search would find it and then that would relieve that lean requirement.

1092
01:33:46,450 --> 01:33:48,210
I'm sorry I'd like to chime in.

1093
01:33:48,530 --> 01:33:48,990
Thank you.

1094
01:33:51,030 --> 01:33:57,790
So if the council agrees to terminate this covenant, it won't run with the line.

1095
01:33:58,730 --> 01:33:59,750
So it won't run with the line.

1096
01:33:59,850 --> 01:34:01,790
So it won't bind subsequent homeowners.

1097
01:34:02,690 --> 01:34:05,770
And then there's a language in the declaration that says that,

1098
01:34:05,770 --> 01:34:19,430
If there is a program to assessments and the home owners fail to pay that assessment, then it could result in a lean over the aproposies, but I don't think that a lean currently exists since there hasn't been any such assessment.

1099
01:34:20,490 --> 01:34:29,570
So I don't think there's a lean on less the HOA some way had a lean over the aproposies, but I don't think the CT has a lean over any of the aproposies currently.

1100
01:34:29,570 --> 01:34:37,170
So what I would like to be sure is that we are actually working with a title attorney

1101
01:34:37,950 --> 01:34:46,270
as we do this so that when any person goes to sell their property, they're not hit with

1102
01:34:46,270 --> 01:34:52,810
a cost that they didn't realize they would be hit with because we are removing a line

1103
01:34:52,810 --> 01:34:54,530
off of the plot.

1104
01:34:54,530 --> 01:34:56,010
which in essence is what we're doing.

1105
01:34:56,710 --> 01:35:00,710
We're just taking a line off the plats and that, you know,

1106
01:35:02,490 --> 01:35:04,190
that's, so that wouldn't be my intent.

1107
01:35:04,450 --> 01:35:08,190
So like I said, there has to be other documents.

1108
01:35:09,270 --> 01:35:14,170
Like if the council as a whole agrees with the request,

1109
01:35:16,390 --> 01:35:18,790
and they case this road declaration,

1110
01:35:19,530 --> 01:35:21,990
there's more work that has to go on with that.

1111
01:35:21,990 --> 01:35:51,970
And yes, so one is, one thing that definitely needs to happen is an easement document, like a written easement document that goes along with the easement that is noted on the plat, as well as a document or more than one document that describes the vacation of the road's declaration and, and I agree, you know, perhaps we use a title attorney or

1112
01:35:51,970 --> 01:36:01,910
or between us in working possibly with Mr. Via or someone and sure that whatever document

1113
01:36:01,910 --> 01:36:07,590
is used to vacate that covenant, that road's declaration. I'm sorry. That road's declaration

1114
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:17,980
is somehow tied to properties so that when a title search is done. I'm sorry. I use the

1115
01:36:17,980 --> 01:36:24,060
It's a total search and that is true, but it is more about the bank than is the title company, right?

1116
01:36:25,140 --> 01:36:36,460
So when the word lien comes up, the person who's providing the loan to the buyer gets very nervous, right?

1117
01:36:37,020 --> 01:36:44,260
And so I just want to make sure that however we're doing this, and I'm sure that legally it can be done,

1118
01:36:44,260 --> 01:37:05,420
I just want to make sure that we're working with the right people, so the people who own the properties now, and the people who want to purchase them in the future aren't getting smacked with some fee, because of this lean, because the word lean being somewhere doesn't belong then.

1119
01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:14,240
That's all. I mean, I'm not saying how to do it. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it.

1120
01:37:14,240 --> 01:37:15,540
Can I be heard?

1121
01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:18,000
Are you sure, Mr. Dale?

1122
01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:19,520
You sat very, very patiently.

1123
01:37:20,220 --> 01:37:21,860
I'll let you address this.

1124
01:37:21,860 --> 01:37:22,360
Thank you.

1125
01:37:22,860 --> 01:37:27,280
This question is obviously it's been on our mind for some time,

1126
01:37:27,500 --> 01:37:31,400
assuming that the council would have seen to what we think

1127
01:37:31,400 --> 01:37:32,580
is a sense of resolution.

1128
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:37,000
And that is, if you look at the road declaration in paragraph 1,

1129
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:43,300
it talks about the obligation of 657 people to maintain

1130
01:37:43,300 --> 01:37:45,060
and repair the road and the bridge.

1131
01:37:45,460 --> 01:37:49,860
But I would go on to say that this obligation is going to be,

1132
01:37:49,860 --> 01:37:53,880
it's going to be voiding if the city makes a determination

1133
01:37:54,540 --> 01:37:57,800
that their obligations, their financial obligations,

1134
01:37:58,380 --> 01:37:59,740
is no longer recall.

1135
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:04,280
That presuming that you do that, which you would have to do,

1136
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:06,180
to take over the maintenance and repair,

1137
01:38:06,680 --> 01:38:09,100
and a document can be recorded in the land records,

1138
01:38:09,240 --> 01:38:11,120
which would be picked up by title searches.

1139
01:38:11,120 --> 01:38:18,640
I'm both the bank and bought by type of searches and type of attorneys representing buyers and sellers.

1140
01:38:19,540 --> 01:38:29,680
And then we would be able to supplement that with documentation that extinguishes any need responsibility for any subsequent purchase.

1141
01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:32,660
That would be recorded in the land records that would run with the land.

1142
01:38:33,120 --> 01:38:35,900
And I think that would resolve all of these concerns.

1143
01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:43,200
Thank you, I'm seeing heads nodding in agreement from our legal staff as well.

1144
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:50,320
Okay, Mr. Hubbard, I'll give you a one minute to wrap it up.

1145
01:38:50,780 --> 01:38:51,200
Thank you.

1146
01:38:53,580 --> 01:38:59,120
I have communicated with the board on this very subject, and we are prepared to offer a draft document

1147
01:38:59,120 --> 01:39:02,860
for you by the city attorney to accomplish what's just been discussed.

1148
01:39:03,320 --> 01:39:05,120
Thank you, appreciate that.

1149
01:39:06,750 --> 01:39:17,450
You just, you just offer, do you want this to be a, okay, with no further discussion on this item, I will ask if my colleague has any comments?

1150
01:39:18,070 --> 01:39:21,510
Not in the least, I'm certainly ready to move this to a public.

1151
01:39:21,630 --> 01:39:22,790
Public hearing, okay.

1152
01:39:23,290 --> 01:39:23,990
All right.

1153
01:39:25,030 --> 01:39:25,870
Any other comments?

1154
01:39:26,290 --> 01:39:26,670
Closings?

1155
01:39:28,130 --> 01:39:29,470
Not thank you all for showing up.

1156
01:39:29,610 --> 01:39:31,010
Thank you for staff.

1157
01:39:32,450 --> 01:39:36,730
I know this has been, you know, people are looking at this and thinking, oh, that was.

1158
01:39:36,730 --> 01:39:43,230
quick and easy. It wasn't. And thank you. Yeah, thanks everybody. It's been several years

1159
01:39:43,230 --> 01:39:48,250
of back and forth and analysis and comparison and so Kudos to everybody who put their

1160
01:39:48,250 --> 01:39:52,010
brains together and thank you all for showing up for your community and we appreciate

1161
01:39:52,010 --> 01:39:55,810
you. With that, we are adjourned. Thank you.