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Next there is a part of the chart there will identify whether they had a working group or a consultation group who was that group moving it forward within the corporation. And that was relatively common and somewhat correlated with later success of the program. Okay. Perhaps just as additional supplemental then is as municipalities are rolling this out, and they need to be able to talk about this externally.

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Do they speak about what were some of their experiences with just socializing this externally

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because you do want community buy-in as well?

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So what was that like, did that come up in conversation at all?

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Through the chair, yes, that did come up in conversation.

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And the external socialization of this concept is really important too.

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And that's a little bit what I was touching on when I spoke about the stakeholder engagement

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and education. So kind of getting ahead of implementing a framework or a policy and connecting

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with those external vendors and service providers was critical in other municipalities. Some

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held information sessions, some circulated actual training slide decks out to their kind of key

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So there's a number of approaches that was discussed in the conversations.

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Excellent.

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Okay.

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My last question then through you, Chair, is about level setting and benchmarking because

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I do know in your, and I don't want to talk about your report yet, but it was just one

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of those like as we're starting from a time zero and we're at a, we're at the base level

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at this point, when you were having these conversations with other municipalities, did

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Did they share with you how they benchmarked themselves?

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I think it's more complicated than just saying we had it and we don't have it or we're

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at zero because we haven't had it and then I just want to understand how do we levels

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that ourselves and how do we benchmark this so that way we can get a better evaluate of

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framework as we move through this pilot phase process and that's what I think.

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Through you, Chair, just for clarification, Councilor Wang, are you referring to as municipalities

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progress in this work, how they evaluate themselves against?

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Yes, that's our—

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Yeah, measuring themselves.

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That's a really wonderful question.

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So, some of the municipalities that are further advanced in this work, so those that have

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been doing it for five plus years, many of them are finding themselves either at the phase

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or have started to conduct this work of doing thorough evaluations and of identifying

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using smart, I mean many set smart targets. So using those smart targets, creating that

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baseline and using that over time, there are some that, you know, recognize that they jumped

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in and they didn't have time to maybe develop that baseline for themselves and that's something

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that they're going back to now. But certainly the evaluative tools was a challenge. I would

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say noted more often than not, but that was a challenge for municipalities, and there

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are a number of them that are looking back to that now to develop the tools and develop

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the methodology through which to gather the information so that they can make decisions

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for the future and share some of those data outputs.

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Sorry, Chair. Smart, top, smart. Is it SMART? Smart, like, mean, specific, measurable, or

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Are you saying other smart like what do you mean by smart through the chair?

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Yes, my apologies for the acronym. Yes, the specific measurable attainable relevant and time bound. Yes, those thank you.

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Those are all my questions here with the chairs and delgens. Can I add to that answer?

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Take it away. One of the strong lessons learned was there was no one way to do to do this work.

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And certainly the range of benchmarking also reflected that across municipalities either

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done really well or not done at all and all the way in between.

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Part of the report back to committee with a proposed pilot would be benchmarking suitable

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for the city of Hamilton if approved to go forward with that work.

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Thanks very much Councillor Fahing and Brunekel-Skaia.

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Thank you.

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Through you, Chair, I have a few questions.

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Let me know if I have to add myself back to the speakers list.

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Through you, Chair, to the Senior Project Manager, just some questions as I'm trying to lean

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into the argumentation regarding the change of the terminology to social value.

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You would remarked that one of the changes to legislation was the community benefits charge

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renamed in 2022.

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That's a relatively recent change you noted that as well.

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whereas the term community benefits free exists this pretty considerably, but you mentioned

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that there is confusion around this, whereas I would imagine the confusion would rest and

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burden in fact the charges.

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Are there any tangible examples of where this confusion led to issues whether locally or

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jurisdictionally?

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Through the chair, thank you for the question.

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So the, yeah, the piece of other being confusion or kind of even conflation around those terms,

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That emerged through conversations with each municipality, one of the key questions

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that I asked them was, why have you chosen to name your program, what you've named it,

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how are you defining your terminology.

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So we went through kind of the nitty gritty on the terms and something that emerged from

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those conversations was there's a number of municipalities as I mentioned as you're aware

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that have been doing this for many years, right? Five, seven, ten plus years. Those municipalities

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by and large have used terminology, aligned with community benefits. So, they're using that language.

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And in those conversations, it started coming up that because of the recent changes in the legislation,

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that they are seeing confusion internally within their own organization about community benefits

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charges, and its relationship to their community benefits work, and by and large, they're

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not connected. So these community benefits teams, they're not leveraging money from the CBC

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charges. That's a very separate body of work. So they were finding it internally within

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their own organization, you know, that it was starting to come up more and more, and it was

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becoming challenging. One municipality who's in development of their program right now, in particular,

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had a, kind of, did a whole little internal conference with their council and their senior

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leadership team to talk about the terminology and the naming of their program.

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And again, the community benefits charges was their key piece of confusion.

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And this is where they really moved for that shift toward the social value outcome language.

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I can tell you myself even working on this within our organization that I have received

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emails internally asking about the community benefits charge work when that's not what

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we're working on. So it's really come up in conversation, right? And you'll see that

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in the jurisdictional scan. So, conversationally based, although there are some very specific

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instances as well with myself of seeing that confusion and conflation in that language,

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but absolutely community benefits. That term without the charges piece, as we know, that

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back decades. And I do think I understand the merit of that terminology and what that means for

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a community. But in light of these changes and the challenges that we're seeing across Canada

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and how others are responding to it, that's what informed.

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Thank you. So I'm hearing that the confusion is really condensed internally and maybe one day

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if the P-A-L terminology changes in the future that confusion can also be relieved that way.

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Another question I could just a very quick confirmation because you mentioned that

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municipalities are thinking about potentially changing the names of some of their B-A,

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the C-B-A offices. To your knowledge at this time, none have changed their community benefits

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agreement offices names. Through the chair, yes, that's correct. So there's no, you won't see any

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formal changes at this point. Again, it was through those interviews and conversations

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that I know that that's in conversation. Yeah, absolutely.

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And through you, Chair, when I was looking at the jurisdictional scan, excellent work on

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how much information you were able to flush out. This is a point of correlation, not causation,

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of course, but there's a pattern between some of the municipalities that did engage with

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external consultation in which the consultation and the process was two years or longer, because

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noted that there were some that were less than two years. So there's a strong correlation

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just seemingly that if they engaged in external consultation, the process took longer.

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Through your conversations, through you, Chair, did you find any reason for why that correlation

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may have existed other than it just is a coincidence?

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Through you, Chair. So, I mean, I can only

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speculate on this. I can't share definitively why that might be the case. But for the most part,

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the municipalities that did engage consultants to consult on their work, they tended to be more

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internal buy-in for this work. That being said, there was sometimes more time allotted to development

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because there were big goals that were being set. There were commitments being made internally

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to advance this work. And as many of us know, when we want to do something right and do something

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well, it often takes more time, maybe sometimes than we would like.

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So those municipalities that did involve consultants, I would say there was a high level

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of internal buy-in in those organizations, and you know, as a result, more time to develop

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those and to really kind of flush out those programs.

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Again, that's what I gathered from those conversations and how I would speculate that correlation.

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Excellent.

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Through you, Chair, do I have a time for a couple more questions?

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Through you, Chair, to Director of Procurement.

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On one of the slides in the presentation, it was noted about some additional departments

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at the city being part of the Social Procurement Pilot Program, such as Healthy and Safe Communities

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and Corporate Services.

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Is this an exhaustive list or was there consideration or is there any consideration for any additional

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elements?

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I'm thinking about in the report there's a notation about the city of Edmonton, the city of Regina, who also engaged in indigenous procurement framework, so I think they worked with additional departments, so just wondering about your thoughts if those two departments are the exhaustive list.

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Through the chair, no, it's not exhaustive at all. If anything, it just briefly touches the two departments. Certainly we have to work hand in hand quite a bit with public works department.

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because when we issue the tenders, we're going to be looking to their project managers and their directors

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to engage which connector organizations would fit best with each pilot being imposed.

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So when we did this in 2018-2019, it was a corporate wide effort.

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We had hand-in-hand, we work hand-in-hand with the Healthy and Safe Communities, but certainly

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public works for the most part, corporate services, we work with them quite intensely as

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well.

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Through you, Chair, that's wonderful to hear.

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Obviously, that kind of collaboration is fantastic, so thank you for taking the opportunity

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to clarify that.

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And my last question is, I was just really struck, as mentioned in the, okay, no actually

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maybe I'll leave this question for discussion during the report because I just wanted to

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comment about something from the historical background.

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Oh no, sorry, it is connected to the timeline.

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No, I'll ask it now.

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Thank you.

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Go for it.

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Yeah, thank you.

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So, in noted in the report, under historical background, talked about some of the issues during

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the 2018-2019 pilot in particular about lacking the necessary staff resources and capacity,

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which led to issues including some of the projects not being able to be monitored for social

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value outcomes.

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In the timeline that was presented, you're thinking about resourcing and how to resource

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this pilot moving forward in the next quarters.

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Any additional information you could provide about ways in which that could be resourced to

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prevent those issues from that pilot in 2018-2019.

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Through the chair, this time around, we have the position

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that is not dedicated to social value procurement, but a good chunk of their

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work plan will be. When we did the pilots in 2018-2019, we

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had hired an external consultant to assist us, but pretty much all the work

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was borne by the procurement specialists in order to

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to work with the consultant, work with the client departments,

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do some of the outreach issue of the procurements.

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Unfortunately, by the time we had issued a few pilots,

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we didn't have the opportunity to go back

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and do any benchmarking to see if anything was successful,

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because at that time we were directed to stand down.

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So that's where we left it at, hopefully with this,

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with the implementation of the development

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and the implementation at least,

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I'm looking for the special projects SPM to assist with that, and then it'll get handed

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over to the Perman Specialist, but at that time we'll have to reflect as well to see if

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it's sustainable in that respect, or if we need to ask for additional activities as well.

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Just a monitor and continue it on.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Chair.

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Very welcome.

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Member Andrews.

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Thank you.

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So, in the presentation, I just want to ask a couple of quick questions.

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excellent work on the jurisdictional scan and the reaching out of the municipalities.

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Thank you again as always for your incredibly hard work on a very comprehensive look at

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other municipalities and their jurisdictions. So I wanted to ask one of the things that you

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mentioned during your presentation was specifically around an internal staff and culture.

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So I'm wondering if that might be one of the ways to overcome some of the challenges with the provincial

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government's renaming of community benefit charges. The other question I have is in the presentation

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and the jurisdictional scan that you did perform. I didn't see a lot of mention of the federal

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community employment benefits program, which a lot of municipalities have accessed outside of

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even their own social procurement or social value or community benefits

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divisions, and it is a although non-mandatory. In our talks with the federal

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government as community benefit networks, it looks like the federal government

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will be moving more towards adding those community employment benefits to both

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their new housing funds as well as their public transportation funds. So I'm just

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wondering was it just a timing issue or how in the jurisdictional scan we did not get in

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this report, the community employment benefits, because there's a substantial number of those

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awarded under that federal program.

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Thank you.

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Angie Burden, general manager of community services for you, Councillor, to Carl.

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One of the significant changes that has been happening with Ontario Works is the

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divesting of employment contracts. So the landscape in which we find ourselves

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today is very different than six years ago, seven years ago, and there in fact are

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other communities where Ontario Works still retains the employment contracts as

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Well, certainly we can be doing some education.

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We can be forming relationships and developing I guess the best way to talk about it would

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be hosting conversations to leverage those kinds of opportunities.

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We have much less leverage and ability to meet employment KPIs because that work does not

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fall under Ontario works in the same way that it used to, but certainly we can host conversations

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with the contract employees that are working on those deliverables. I wanted also to mention

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to an earlier question around the is it only corporate services and healthy and safe communities.

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Part of what we wanted to model with GM Zagaric and I is the recognition that well,

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social value procurement may rest within procurement and corporate services.

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Really, it does need to be, to your point, the education of the corporation.

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And it needs to be embraced from cultures and values and expertise from the client group.

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So, Jim Zagaric and I are, if you will, co-chairing this work to provide some, I think reassurance

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that this is not going to run as a procurement project buried within a division,

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a single division within a department, but really, in fact, is a corporate-wide commitment.

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Thank you.

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Then my next step question through the chair is in the presentation.

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There's a mention, of course, about community and stakeholder engagement, and

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through the chair to you, GM, you've identified one of the challenges with the City of Hamilton,

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and then OWODSP and employment services being removed.

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I believe Toronto was slated to go through a similar process in quarter two of 2025.

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So they'll be dealing with some substantial challenges of their own in the way that they

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handle these types of situations, but I am aware that there are great many including members

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of the community benefits network, employment service agencies, not for profits in the city

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of Hamilton who do a lot of great employment service work funded both federally and

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provincially. So in terms of that stakeholder consultant and in terms of the next steps

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in terms of the social value outcome pilot that you're proposing through this presentation,

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I'm just curious where those organizations would fit into that stakeholder. I heard a lot about

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internal stakeholders, city stakeholders, but I didn't hear a lot about community and outside

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stakeholders and engagements. So I wanted to see because it's sort of mentioned in the presentation

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around this engagement, if you could flesh that out a little bit for me. And another thing from

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the presentation that you briefly mention, and then it's mentioned in your excellent jurisdictional

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scan is the guiding principles that are developed by various municipalities for the how they're going

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to undertake this social value procurement. You mentioned it alluded to it a little bit in your

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presentation, but I'm just wondering, again, on that stakeholder piece on how you plan

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to frame that, those questions and how to get the best terms of what the made in Hamilton

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solution is, as it were. Thank you.

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So, through the chair for your first question, Carl.

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I think it's in our best interest to go back to see what we did in 2018-2019 and what we

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did well.

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and with respect to the external engagement it will be basically once we hire

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the consultant and figure out what the scope of work will be for the

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consultant. Perhaps at that time it's putting out some communications to the

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community to all the communities and stakeholders within Hamilton to open the

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door again for social procurement and to see how they would like to be engaged

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and when they would like to be engaged and I think it's a two-way conversation.

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I really can't put my finger on this time how we go about that but I know it's got to

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be that two-way conversation between the external community and the city of Hamilton and

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then we'll need to bring in the vendors as well.

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So what we learned from the first pilots we did, we couldn't do enough community engagement

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and conversation, so we're going to revisit that, look to see what we did well and capitalize

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on that, and look to the consultant to see if they have any other suggestions as well.

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And we're certainly open to the Hamilton Community Benefits to offer suggestions as well.

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Thank you.

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And last question for you, Chair, during the presentation on social procurements on your

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frame with the city led and externally led mechanisms and embedments based on your best practices

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from other cities. I am curious on where there are other areas where this different it seemed

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especially in your beautiful report on jurisdictional scans that the most successful ones of the

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these social procurement pilots especially,

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tended to have internal staff champions

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and internal staff supports,

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even if it wasn't necessarily resourced,

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some were just spread across city divisions,

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some were just staff generated,

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some were council directed for the policy creation.

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So I'm just curious on that social procurement piece

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on exactly what you think that the adequate resources are available to undertake small

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scales, social procurement pilots, as you've mentioned in the presentation, is the

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higher the resources there, and is there adequate staff championships in your opinions set

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up based on the knowledge that you've learned through this presentation from other communities.

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So

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perhaps I'll start and then turn it to Tina.

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One of the things that we did with the recommendations is look at what would be feasible

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within the resourcing and the structure currently of the city.

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And we do require consultant for the pieces that Tina had previously mentioned.

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And we believe that there would be champions across the organization, depending on who

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the appropriate client group would be for the particular social procurement that we

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were looking at.

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And I think the first part of the question was around the resourcing, but that's been

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factored into the recommendations that are there.

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It's different than having a dedicated staff team that is committed to the work ongoing.

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It would be one time resourcing to bring to come in to really start these pilots.

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And then I believe in Q3 come back or Q4 of next year come back to provide longer-term

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recommendations based on what has been learned.

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I'll turn it over to Tina if she wants to add anything.

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Through the chair. No, I'm good.

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So through the chair, so that's the timing chart that we're looking at here with VQ on

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pilot resource and planning, Q2 stakeholder engagement, Q3 pilot implementation, and Q4 report

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back in 2025. That's correct. Thank you. That's all the questions

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I have on the presentation.

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Thanks very much. And now we're to Councillor

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Thank you for the presentation and the report.

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Can I just begin with, could you offer me a definition of Social Value Procurement,

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please?

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Yes, through the chair.

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So, Social Value Procurement could be defined as leveraging existing spending on goods

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and services across the corporation to deliver additional social value outcomes that go above

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and beyond the primary project deliverable.

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Okay, thanks.

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If I could just drill into this social value, social as opposed to say community prosperity.

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Can you just help me out on the framing of social and why you think arguably at this

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time in our political history, there would be value in having the word value or social

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through the chair.

301
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Yeah, thank you for that question.

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That's something that came up a lot in conversation through the jurisdictional scan in interviews

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with other municipalities.

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And there was conversation about why the word social because all of us have many definitions

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of social in our minds and how we connect it, especially in the government realm to the

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work that we do.

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The kind of overarching approach that you'll see across Canada is social, it is really

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being defined as for the people.

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So it's, again, another almost synonymous to the concept of community, which is also a term

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that works here, but because social value and social value outcome have been used by

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other municipalities across Canada in the last five years and are gaining traction, both

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within municipal programs and policies and in the accompanying literature that we see

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around this body of work, that term has really taken hold, and it's come to mean social

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in terms of society and our community, so that's really the use of that language and what it's

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referring to. I think the important piece to keep in mind here is that from this jurisdictional

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scan conversations led me to understand that there's a lot of buy-in from the industry, so people,

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You know, bids and tenders, large corporations, construction companies, et cetera, this language is starting to become ingrained in their work because it's being used across our country.

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So for that reason, that's the why social and social value has been proposed here.

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So it does require a bit of an expansion of maybe our definitions of social as we use them in other contexts, but it is meant to be a more broad and overarching term.

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I see. Was there any work done on the municipalities you surveyed on, whether they're communities,

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the public understand that term at all, through the chair?

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Through the chair. So in terms of the understanding of social value, I will share. I did not directly

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ask that question. However, from conversation, we did discuss definitions and terms and

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what worked or didn't work. And by and large, what I, as previously mentioned, what I've

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heard is that community benefits is the term that is being confused because of the CBCs and

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the CBAs. As a result, using this social value terminology has in some instances replaced

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based that. And from what I gather from my conversations, they've seen success with

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this terminology. It, you know, as mentioned, is becoming kind of this industry standard.

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They're in terms of industry has not been confusion. I think that's where they've seen

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success. I did have a couple conversations where, again, internally with senior leadership

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teams or with counsel that there was some question or confusion around using that social language

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and that took some conversation and some information sharing to move through and move past.

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Thank you.

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You could, could staff just clarify for me through the chair, whether this municipality ever formally adopted a section 37. What was then CBCs?

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I think I'm sorry to say, but planning economic development staff, specifically planning staff aren't in the room, though director Shleyhahn is here. Shleyhahn is here, sorry, and to probably attempt to answer that question. Thank you. Thank you.

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I need to hear from my apologies. Can you repeat the question?

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Yeah, I'm just, I'm curious about the report that there's confusion within the organization

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about the terminology of community benefits because I was, I thought maybe mistakenly

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under the impression that the city of Hamilton never used community benefits and or it was only

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going to be applicable within the downtown secondary plan, but I could be wrong about that

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if you could clarify.

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And through back to the Councilor, my apologies. I will have to get back to you on that.

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I don't have the answer to that question, but I can make it clear.

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Yeah, I'm just trying to understand the source of the bureaucratic confusion, because I didn't

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think we used it. Okay, just thank you. My last question, just so I understand

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And on a number of really good questions and comments on the benchmarks, if did I hear

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correctly that the survey municipalities don't have an active record on the deliverables

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achieved thus far in their social value procurement through

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the chair.

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So there are more than 50% of the municipalities that we spoke with.

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This is relatively new work, so work that's been occurring in the last maybe five years.

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These municipalities are, many of them in the process of measuring their outputs and their outcomes.

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So some of them do have some kind of high level learnings that they can share in some high level benchmarks that they can provide back.

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There are a couple municipalities that have been doing this for quite some time, and

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they do have more data to share back on what they've achieved.

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Something that I would like to note here is that depending on the lifespan of a project

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and how long it takes to bring it to fruition, we are looking at large infrastructure projects

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that have community benefits agreements attached, them taking 30 plus years.

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So sometimes the monitoring and tracking through the lifespan of the project is a really big undertaking.

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And there have been touch points of sharing back on those projects from these large municipalities.

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But as noted, that is an area where there is more work to be done and has been noted as a challenge in that kind of gathering and evaluating of the benchmarks.

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Okay,

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so thank you so that I understand that then, so if a municipality put that it was

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hoping to ensure that 10% of all tendered work went to companies that employed X number

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of Indigenous persons, for example, or went to Indigenous owned companies, are you suggesting

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or did you find that they're not able to report on the immediate attainment of that through the

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course of their work? Just I'm trying to understand the deliverable part. Thank you.

368
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Through the chair, thank you for the clarification on that and I'll provide clarification as well.

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Yes, so and it really depends on how the municipality chose to structure their program and there are a

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handful of them that have hard targets.

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So by hard targets, I'm referring to what you've mentioned

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about saying 10% of below threshold procurement

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must go to X individuals or X group.

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In those instances where municipality has set

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those hard targets, they have been able to provide data

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back on that and it depends on the targets that they've set.

377
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So we are seeing that some set targets

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that were challenging to meet

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and they maybe came in below what they had hoped to do.

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We do see some municipalities, and there are examples of them, who have exceeded the

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targets that they set.

382
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So it really comes down to how they've structured the program whether hard targets have been

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part of it or not, and that is actually a conversation that was had with municipalities and is captured

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in appendix A to the staff report surrounding hard targets versus soft targets and how that's

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been structured.

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But yes, to your point, they are able to report back if they've set those hard targets.

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There is usually yearly, yearly monitoring.

388
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Thank you.

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For that, I will reserve, I think I have a question or two on the report.

390
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Thank you.

391
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Thanks very much, Councillor Wilson.

392
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Just really briefly wanted to just offer, if I could, brief response to your question about

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the cognitive distance and time inside the bureaucracy, as the chair of this committee, having had a

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a chance to speak to some folks.

395
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There was just a general confusion around a,

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Section 37, the Planning Act,

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and those kinds of really specific

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kind of community benefits there.

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The words community plus the word benefits,

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generally speaking, what that looks like,

401
00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:51,080
we talked about this openly about things

402
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at a grocery store, and there was a report in 2022

403
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in June that talked about community benefits charges,

404
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community benefits charge strategy.

405
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That report, if you look at that,

406
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I think also made it extra confusing

407
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because it went from a Section 37 of the planning act to a different thing about

408
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CBCs and that's just made things even more confusing for people so that's

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what I kept hearing from people when I talked to them inside the organization

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if that's helpful. Yeah if I if I may my question thank you for that is I don't

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know if we've ever exercised it so thank you so thank you so thank you so much

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for clarifying so I guess we can that's not a standing item and maybe director

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Shleyhahn can find out if we've ever exercised Section 37 of the planning act and

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when we find out that we can send to the members of the committee offline.

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On that, the end of the speaker's list for the presentation unless there's any speakers

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of the report.

417
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Oh, sorry, pardon me.

418
00:36:38,940 --> 00:36:39,480
Councillor Chattison.

419
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I just couldn't buzz in on my microphone here.

420
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You can wave to me anytime I see you, and I will recognize you.

421
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,100
So just in general to the presentation.

422
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So I'm sitting here in the Community Benefits Protocol subcommittee and yet I'm hearing

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all about terminology that talks about social value, and so forth. Would it be wise in

424
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order to de-confuse the situation, maybe rename this committee, or is it committee going

425
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to fall under, like, are we going to, later on, go into bigger areas of community benefits?

426
00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:21,900
Just throwing that out there right now for that.

427
00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:25,680
Great exercise of foreshadowing, Councillor Tattas and we're going to attempt to approach

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that subject in the reports on the floor by talking about what we might do to support

429
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the committees that were going forward and that may at some time be an opportunity to change

430
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the committee's name, though that's not on the table for today. You raised an important point

431
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of foreshadowing that's coming in the moment ahead.

432
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And I respect that answer, Chair, but could I hear from staff?

433
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You can. Chair from them, Chair, go for it.

434
00:37:50,990 --> 00:37:54,290
Thank you. Through you, Chair, to the Councillors. So we would

435
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see clarity on the direction, the future direction of the committee, and then it would be staff's recommendation that the naming, the nomenclature matches.

436
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So that if there is a broader piece, then perhaps the committee is broader if it is more focused than the name of the committee reflects the work that's happening.

437
00:38:20,970 --> 00:38:32,510
We would, we would be an agreement that we would want to simplify and not have confusion happening with reports and a different nomenclature at the committee naming level, so if that's helpful.

438
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And then just in seeing the steps that are recommended, basically it says along the lines of social procurement pilot project, I think that's kind of what you're looking at here.

439
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The

440
00:38:54,560 --> 00:39:02,600
recommendations say for us that we're going to use a consultant to identify that, those pilot projects.

441
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,020
If I'm correct, I think that's what you said or it's recommended in the readings that I did.

442
00:39:07,780 --> 00:39:22,900
Is there not the ability right now for us to do that internally with the knowledge gained from the jurisdictional scan to identify projects internally as opposed to having to go to a consultant to identify.

443
00:39:23,460 --> 00:39:29,080
within? Does that not, does that not, does the capability not exist within at this point?

444
00:39:32,050 --> 00:39:38,650
Through the chair. This couple of work for the consultancy much more than that. So it will be helping

445
00:39:38,650 --> 00:39:46,290
us with the training materials, with formalizing any of our processes and our policies,

446
00:39:47,150 --> 00:39:53,690
defining what we could use in our procurement documents with respect to social value,

447
00:39:53,690 --> 00:39:56,410
evaluation criteria and so on and so forth.

448
00:39:56,570 --> 00:39:59,370
So it's not really just forming framework,

449
00:39:59,590 --> 00:40:01,190
but it's much more than that.

450
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:08,460
I can respect that answer.

451
00:40:08,740 --> 00:40:11,520
I understand that it is about the training and so forth,

452
00:40:11,820 --> 00:40:16,540
but again, I think doesn't that expertise lie

453
00:40:16,540 --> 00:40:20,520
within our staff or is that beyond the capabilities

454
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,860
of staff to, and I know that there was some request

455
00:40:24,860 --> 00:40:27,700
us to add additional FTE and so forth.

456
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:37,280
Just in a cost analysis, is it better to hire internally or is it better to use an external

457
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:43,700
consultant if we're going to keep going back at this and it's going to be a long process

458
00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:48,080
to educate such, like, a jurisdiction as big as ours?

459
00:40:50,890 --> 00:40:54,530
Just a small point of order through the chair before we continue.

460
00:40:54,530 --> 00:41:01,270
you? You can have a point of order of any size. Go ahead. I just thought that maybe we should

461
00:41:01,270 --> 00:41:07,550
vote on accepting the presentation and move to the report on the floor before we have these broader

462
00:41:07,550 --> 00:41:12,810
discussions. It seems like we're kind of drifting into report questions. I mean, we've been

463
00:41:12,810 --> 00:41:17,210
drifting the report questions for some time, but it seems like everyone wanted to do that so I

464
00:41:17,210 --> 00:41:22,670
just let it go. So this is the council has to finish and then we can sort of close the bracket here

465
00:41:22,670 --> 00:41:24,710
I'll put it around my last question, I promise you.

466
00:41:27,050 --> 00:41:29,130
Thank you, through you, Chair, to the Councillors.

467
00:41:29,530 --> 00:41:37,770
So we are working to respond to the mandate of the committee and the community needs amongst

468
00:41:37,770 --> 00:41:40,830
the workload that our staff find themselves in.

469
00:41:41,110 --> 00:41:47,930
So what you have before you is, I think it's a combination of there being specialized expertise

470
00:41:47,930 --> 00:41:51,430
that we think would be helpful and beneficial to the city.

471
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:57,230
It is also a capacity piece, and when I think in particular of our director of procurement,

472
00:41:57,670 --> 00:42:04,110
who could likely do this work, the other alternative is for us to come back and say we could

473
00:42:04,110 --> 00:42:10,070
do this work internally, and then these particular projects would need to stop.

474
00:42:11,070 --> 00:42:17,770
We have had that discussion, and the recommendation of staff is that we believe that the alternative

475
00:42:17,770 --> 00:42:25,330
work that we would stop are things that would be the same or higher priority and be very

476
00:42:25,330 --> 00:42:33,170
challenging to put forward as a remedy in light of all the other work that is on the

477
00:42:33,170 --> 00:42:39,170
work plan and quite urgent as well. Thank you. Thank you for that full

478
00:42:39,170 --> 00:42:45,230
sum answer and I would just like to throw this out there that I did hear that there is no

479
00:42:45,230 --> 00:42:51,070
one way to do the work. It's just about starting the work and doing that work in order to learn from the

480
00:42:51,070 --> 00:42:59,350
doing. So like I said, I would rather always contain that within and keep that, what would I say,

481
00:42:59,910 --> 00:43:07,170
keep that capacity and develop that capacity here inside the city as opposed to just kind of relying on

482
00:43:07,170 --> 00:43:12,810
other people because I know when people are invested in something to complete it, they learn it better and

483
00:43:12,810 --> 00:43:17,090
and they adapt it better as opposed to just hearing it from an outside source.

484
00:43:17,530 --> 00:43:17,790
No more.

485
00:43:20,050 --> 00:43:21,010
Next, Councillor Tatticent.

486
00:43:21,230 --> 00:43:23,810
On that note, I need a move for the seconder to receive the presentation.

487
00:43:24,130 --> 00:43:29,550
Councillor Huayne was so fast and then Vice Chair Andress, all those in favour of receiving

488
00:43:29,550 --> 00:43:33,310
the presentation, if you could so raise your hand, that's everybody.

489
00:43:33,970 --> 00:43:38,990
The presentation has so been received and now we're on to the report and so I need someone

490
00:43:38,990 --> 00:43:41,790
to move the report and someone's second to the report so you can put it on the floor,

491
00:43:41,790 --> 00:43:46,130
moved by Councillor Tattisons, second member, Nicholas Kaya, and so now I'll entertain

492
00:43:46,130 --> 00:43:49,810
if there's any questions on the report. As a road map ahead for how we're going to try

493
00:43:49,810 --> 00:43:54,410
and do this in a timely manner, just everyone knows. I promise everyone that today's

494
00:43:54,410 --> 00:44:00,930
me wouldn't last three hours. So, we're going to try and deal with a couple of things here.

495
00:44:01,250 --> 00:44:05,990
So we're going to try and add a new recommendation, G, and that's been prepared and chaired in

496
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:10,110
advance. We're going to try and then take some of these things and move them over to the

497
00:44:10,110 --> 00:44:13,910
procurement subcommittee because they're very procurement specific. And then we're going

498
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:17,270
to try and address the larger elephant in the room which is how does this committee

499
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:22,450
carry on doing this work without the resources at hand to do it and people have been

500
00:44:22,450 --> 00:44:25,810
helpful in trying to craft some language. We're not going to be able to display all the

501
00:44:25,810 --> 00:44:28,390
language on the screen right now because we have a bit of trouble getting in touch with some

502
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:31,730
key people at the city but exactly what that process will look like in terms of the wording

503
00:44:31,730 --> 00:44:35,690
but trust that everyone here will get the right wording in time for our next approval phase

504
00:44:35,690 --> 00:44:40,850
as we go through the subcommittee committee council process. On that note, I'm just keeping

505
00:44:40,850 --> 00:44:44,290
that online. Anyone who has comments or questions on the report itself that want to bring those

506
00:44:44,290 --> 00:44:49,230
up now, go for it. I look for hands. All right. Member Nicholskaya, carry on.

507
00:44:51,070 --> 00:44:56,790
Through you, Chair, to whomever can answer this best, just some questions in the report.

508
00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:57,950
it talks up

509
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:29,360
External consultant, as you can understand from some of the questions I've already alluded to, I have some curiosity is about whether that is the most effective recommendation. There are two things presented that recommendation and an alternative considerations, which includes two to three FTEs and an acknowledgement that that is probably a later stage recommendation. There's like a gap in between that, those two sort of binaries. So, were there other considerations discussions about instead of an external

510
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:35,720
consulted, there be an FTE with this kind of experience, be used on a one-year basis

511
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:40,200
and, you know, with possibility of extensions like, I don't know how that works at the

512
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:40,660
City of Hamilton.

513
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:46,000
So perhaps that question is as of ignorance, but I am just curious why that was the foremost

514
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:50,580
recommendation presented and if there are other options that another subcommittee and another

515
00:45:50,580 --> 00:45:51,920
committee can consider in the future.

516
00:45:55,250 --> 00:45:56,610
Thank you, through you, Chair.

517
00:45:58,830 --> 00:46:06,690
We have, we're invested in making sure that whatever work we take on, we have the resources

518
00:46:06,690 --> 00:46:10,150
then to do the work well and successfully.

519
00:46:10,830 --> 00:46:18,350
So if the committee for example was looking solely at the development of a framework and

520
00:46:18,350 --> 00:46:22,950
it was decided that we talked about multiple ways of doing things.

521
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:30,350
So the staff's recommendation is to do the social value procurement pilots, use that to

522
00:46:30,350 --> 00:46:35,290
inform the development of a framework, and also then move to an implementation phase

523
00:46:35,290 --> 00:46:40,830
when resourcing would be more quantifiable at that point in Q5 of next year.

524
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:42,570
That is one path forward.

525
00:46:43,210 --> 00:46:51,390
Another path forward would be to do the team in terms of that dedicated team with the multiple

526
00:46:51,390 --> 00:46:58,670
FTEs that has more of a lens on implementation and a broader scope within the city in terms

527
00:46:58,670 --> 00:47:04,410
of impacting different divisions, client groups, and furthering the culture of the work.

528
00:47:05,550 --> 00:47:11,530
There could be another option where if the subcommittee said, what can we do with one FTE?

529
00:47:12,590 --> 00:47:17,770
In my mind, and I'll look to my colleagues on the bench here, it would be then possible

530
00:47:17,770 --> 00:47:26,090
to take that resource and develop a framework, it would be theoretical, informed by engagement,

531
00:47:26,570 --> 00:47:29,730
but would not lend itself then to implementation.

532
00:47:30,110 --> 00:47:34,150
I think we'll be very careful that we're scoping the work so that it's successful.

533
00:47:34,650 --> 00:47:41,070
That would be another way forward, so that individual resource could be hired on boarded.

534
00:47:41,690 --> 00:47:45,650
If it's a temporary resource, then it is a temporary contract.

535
00:47:45,650 --> 00:47:52,010
we may end up in the same space about not having permanent funding for that individual beyond what's

536
00:47:52,010 --> 00:48:00,570
approved in a one-time budget, but we could definitely look at that kind of a scope for a

537
00:48:00,570 --> 00:48:05,750
single FTE resource within the city. Carrie, I believe that's something to add.

538
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:12,270
Thank you for the question and through the chair. Yes, we did have that robust conversation about

539
00:48:12,270 --> 00:48:18,990
different scenarios and one of the overriding factors in the recommendation or the recommendation

540
00:48:18,990 --> 00:48:29,570
that we landed on was speed. How quickly or what would be the most expedient path and it was clear

541
00:48:29,570 --> 00:48:37,170
that the hiring of an external consultant would be quicker than any recruitment process either on

542
00:48:37,170 --> 00:48:38,570
temporary or a full-time basis.

543
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:45,630
Okay, I'm not saying, oh pardon me, a member by a certain interest?

544
00:48:46,490 --> 00:48:52,370
Yeah, I'd like to move an amendment to the recommendation at this time.

545
00:48:52,710 --> 00:48:56,570
Sure, let's see if we have any other question speakers before we get to any amendments and other kinds of things.

546
00:48:56,770 --> 00:48:57,950
Well, then we can get to you, certainly.

547
00:48:58,310 --> 00:49:02,730
Just want to make sure I have a gander here in my little chat window, which tells me who's next.

548
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:04,970
I do see Councillor Wilson as a question.

549
00:49:05,050 --> 00:49:08,290
If you don't mind, I'll let her ask her questions first, and then we'll get to amendments and other kinds of things.

550
00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:09,190
Councillor Wilson.

551
00:49:09,190 --> 00:49:12,640
Thank you.

552
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:25,540
I'm still a little needing some assistance on understanding the recommendations

553
00:49:25,540 --> 00:49:35,840
and the role of this committee, the role of the FTE and the role of staff. So if I could

554
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:45,560
just by if I'm looking at recommendation C, which is to form a cross departmental committee

555
00:49:46,330 --> 00:49:57,540
for the purpose of training on outcomes. I'm going to conclude that that would be a very last

556
00:49:57,540 --> 00:50:07,620
deliverable or exercise taken because it's this committee and or would have to sign off

557
00:50:07,620 --> 00:50:16,260
on the actual deliverable so whether it be identified as local employment, securement

558
00:50:16,260 --> 00:50:30,900
or whether it be a profile of the equity deserving community that would be included in a procurement.

559
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:39,020
I'm just trying to understand the ordering of this work if my question is that any way intelligible.

560
00:50:39,020 --> 00:50:39,900
Through

561
00:50:44,290 --> 00:50:53,710
the chair, I think the information and the training aspect for corporate staff is

562
00:50:53,710 --> 00:50:55,090
going to be staged.

563
00:50:55,630 --> 00:51:02,950
I think at the very beginning, we need to have that introductory introduction to the staff

564
00:51:02,950 --> 00:51:05,230
of what social value procurement is.

565
00:51:06,050 --> 00:51:12,510
And then once the consultant is on board, then we'll be able to develop goals and objectives

566
00:51:12,510 --> 00:51:18,790
for the program. We'll have a draft policy. We'll be drafting user guides and templates and

567
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:25,450
tools. And then once we have those, then again we need to go back out to staff and do some more

568
00:51:25,450 --> 00:51:32,710
change management and to show staff why we need to implement social value procurement and how to do

569
00:51:32,710 --> 00:51:41,830
it. And so you're right. Recommendation C kind of is fairly high up in the order of recommendations.

570
00:51:41,830 --> 00:51:49,450
I don't think they're necessarily in chronological order, but the training is going to be extensive.

571
00:51:49,450 --> 00:51:55,830
It's just not a one-time venture, if you will, just because that the change management and

572
00:51:55,830 --> 00:51:59,070
the understanding of social value procurement is not easy.

573
00:51:59,450 --> 00:52:05,470
It's taken me here to figure it out, and I'm not even sure I figured out it out yet, so I'm

574
00:52:05,470 --> 00:52:06,110
still learning.

575
00:52:07,550 --> 00:52:17,970
No, thank you for that. I appreciate your grace Tina, but I do think it's we've spent

576
00:52:17,970 --> 00:52:26,510
a lot of time this afternoon on definitions and understanding deliverables and we've also

577
00:52:26,510 --> 00:52:33,610
talked about the capacity of staff who have their plates full doing good, full work and I'm just

578
00:52:33,610 --> 00:52:41,290
mindful of engaging in staff unless and until maybe it's just a reflection of the way I learn,

579
00:52:41,490 --> 00:52:48,310
it's always easier to change culture, change courses when we have maybe some

580
00:52:49,130 --> 00:52:56,090
clearer specifics and deliverables to be offered because we can kind of put the theory

581
00:52:56,610 --> 00:53:02,970
and wrap it around something more specific. So I was just a little confused on the ordering

582
00:53:02,970 --> 00:53:10,730
perhaps it's not chronological, and it's deliverable, but it just appears that way, so that's just a notation I have.

583
00:53:11,350 --> 00:53:28,230
And if I may, Chair, I certainly understand the argument about the term social value and what I've heard from the very exhaustive and excellent survey of other municipalities.

584
00:53:28,230 --> 00:53:41,530
is it is now a term that provides a clear sort of demarcation between that which is afforded to municipalities in the planning act, even though I don't believe I've ever used that.

585
00:53:43,890 --> 00:53:52,110
And it is the organizations, whether it be the local trade unions or otherwise who seem to understand it.

586
00:53:52,110 --> 00:53:59,390
But my point of contention is that I believe as an organization, we have to start using

587
00:53:59,390 --> 00:54:01,630
terms which the public understands.

588
00:54:03,430 --> 00:54:10,250
And right now, if there was political advantage to itemizing anything as a social value, I

589
00:54:10,250 --> 00:54:10,970
haven't seen it.

590
00:54:11,230 --> 00:54:14,750
Otherwise, we wouldn't have the health care crisis and the housing crisis that we do.

591
00:54:14,750 --> 00:54:28,710
So I would prefer some massaging of that term, although I respect the fact that it would leave Hamilton perhaps as an outlier, but I don't think it doesn't say anything to the public.

592
00:54:29,290 --> 00:54:41,930
I would prefer something like community prosperity, and that enables us to actually own the term and define that prosperity is actually more than a singular deliverable.

593
00:54:41,930 --> 00:54:45,990
that I'll leave my comment, that it's just one of our words. Thank you.

594
00:54:51,130 --> 00:54:57,110
Thanks, Councillor Wilson. So, seeing no further speakers on the report itself, we'll

595
00:54:57,110 --> 00:55:01,190
go to the amendments. I've got some kind of amendment also after

596
00:55:01,190 --> 00:55:05,250
Carl, and so I'll pass the chair of Carl on to that, but for now, Carl, your amendment.

597
00:55:05,650 --> 00:55:13,570
Okay, so I would like to propose an amendment to the staff report by adding a clause G that

598
00:55:13,570 --> 00:55:30,510
recommendations B through FB referred to the City of Hamilton's procurement subcommittee with the direction that the social procurement pilot prioritized indigenous diverse owned and equity serving businesses and social enterprises, and the goods and service specials for that pilot not exceed $200,000.

599
00:55:30,510 --> 00:55:33,450
I'd also like to recommend an amendment to be,

600
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:44,280
and then by removing the phrase,

601
00:55:44,980 --> 00:55:49,400
develop a social value framework and replace it with exploring social

602
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:50,640
procurement policies.

603
00:55:54,730 --> 00:55:56,830
Okay, thank you so much. So a couple things that are

604
00:55:56,830 --> 00:56:01,030
procedurally fun about this. Number one is, I think that a councillor has to move the

605
00:56:01,030 --> 00:56:04,770
actual amendment itself. I recall that correctly. No, that's not what's happening. No,

606
00:56:04,770 --> 00:56:07,590
Okay, sorry, but through the chair.

607
00:56:08,170 --> 00:56:13,090
So we don't need to add a subsection for a referral.

608
00:56:13,950 --> 00:56:15,930
Okay, that can just be done,

609
00:56:16,030 --> 00:56:17,850
but it has to be done by someone who hasn't spoken

610
00:56:17,850 --> 00:56:21,930
to the matter, and I believe you had questions

611
00:56:21,930 --> 00:56:23,870
on the report, so you've already spoken.

612
00:56:24,230 --> 00:56:25,490
I haven't spoken on the report.

613
00:56:25,490 --> 00:56:30,710
No, on the report, okay, so you could move a referral.

614
00:56:31,810 --> 00:56:34,050
But we first need to deal with the amendment first.

615
00:56:34,770 --> 00:56:36,570
So we could deal with the amendment.

616
00:56:37,110 --> 00:56:38,690
And then if there's no further amendments,

617
00:56:38,850 --> 00:56:41,230
you could then refer it.

618
00:56:46,090 --> 00:56:47,670
Yeah, I was doing some

619
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:49,710
I could put it up on the screen if that's.

620
00:56:49,910 --> 00:56:51,350
It's okay. We're going to put this on the screen.

621
00:56:51,470 --> 00:56:53,170
So we're just going to do this in a slightly different order.

622
00:56:53,370 --> 00:56:54,730
Nothing exciting has really happened.

623
00:56:54,990 --> 00:56:57,590
Yeah, mostly it's boring, but it's tuning in.

624
00:56:57,870 --> 00:57:01,290
So what we're going to do is we're going to do things

625
00:57:01,290 --> 00:57:02,150
in a bit of a different order.

626
00:57:02,710 --> 00:57:05,050
And so we're going to put this information up on the screen.

627
00:57:05,050 --> 00:57:07,190
So everybody can see it including those following along at home.

628
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:07,250
Oh,

629
00:57:13,930 --> 00:57:15,350
such a thing.

630
00:57:16,270 --> 00:57:19,450
One moment of a VLA would like to just interject away.

631
00:57:20,750 --> 00:57:22,250
Just point of information.

632
00:57:24,730 --> 00:57:28,590
If the vice chair is attempting both a referral and an amendment

633
00:57:29,930 --> 00:57:33,250
is providing the amendment technically speaking on the matter?

634
00:57:34,690 --> 00:57:35,510
No? Okay.

635
00:57:36,350 --> 00:57:38,890
If it was, I would have then moved said amendment.

636
00:57:39,190 --> 00:57:40,870
I appreciate everyone's love and kindness, and also,

637
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:42,130
So there's no such thing as a point of information,

638
00:57:42,250 --> 00:57:42,750
but it's okay.

639
00:57:43,450 --> 00:57:45,250
I know strangely the rules of order

640
00:57:45,250 --> 00:57:46,510
don't allow such a real thing,

641
00:57:46,590 --> 00:57:47,030
but it's okay.

642
00:57:47,190 --> 00:57:48,330
I'm happy for people to interject.

643
00:57:48,650 --> 00:57:51,410
What we're doing here is we're stitching together

644
00:57:52,410 --> 00:57:54,730
wonderful tapestry to guess through the report.

645
00:57:55,090 --> 00:57:56,930
And so all hands are appreciated in that work.

646
00:57:58,110 --> 00:57:59,250
Inverse and parallel metrics.

647
00:58:05,940 --> 00:58:06,780
So through the chair,

648
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,120
how you wanted to strike from B.

649
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:13,320
Developing social value framework

650
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,660
and replacing it with exploring social procurement policies.

651
00:58:22,850 --> 00:58:25,610
And just again, for some context for those following along,

652
00:58:26,050 --> 00:58:28,110
this will be resolved by my amendment,

653
00:58:28,510 --> 00:58:29,510
the striking of this.

654
00:58:29,870 --> 00:58:31,550
So if people are worried about that, don't worry.

655
00:58:31,670 --> 00:58:32,790
We'll be going down the road

656
00:58:32,790 --> 00:58:35,670
of actually fulfilling this committee's mandate momentarily.

657
00:58:36,190 --> 00:58:37,950
But Carl is doing some...

658
00:58:37,950 --> 00:58:38,230
Yeah.

659
00:58:38,770 --> 00:58:39,170
A mandate.

660
00:58:39,590 --> 00:58:43,050
And that G, with the direction

661
00:58:43,050 --> 00:58:45,130
that the social procurement pilot prioritized

662
00:58:45,130 --> 00:58:52,530
Indigenous owned, a diversity owned in equity deserving, sorry, my laptop just has to go

663
00:58:52,530 --> 00:58:56,910
to sleep, equity deserving businesses and social enterprises and then the goods and services

664
00:58:56,910 --> 00:59:04,430
threshold for these pilots not exceed $200,000 as G and then procedurally we'll refer

665
00:59:04,430 --> 00:59:06,430
it. That's a different thing, sorry about that.

666
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:22,260
Okay, so we're first going to deal with the amendment to be and if anybody has any questions

667
00:59:22,260 --> 00:59:24,080
or comments on the amendment to be?

668
00:59:27,810 --> 00:59:29,210
I will need a seconder for the amendment as well.

669
00:59:29,310 --> 00:59:30,850
I see Councillor White was first on the draw.

670
00:59:33,710 --> 00:59:35,650
Councillor Morin Wilson has a question. Go ahead,

671
00:59:35,710 --> 00:59:40,410
Councillor Morin Wilson. Thank you. Could I have the language on the screen, please?

672
00:59:40,410 --> 00:59:46,060
Sure thing, it's arriving momentarily.

673
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:23,740
If I can just briefly summarize, what the plan is here is to move these things in the referral to the social procurement, the procurement things to the procurement subcommittee for their attention. My dear hand up, though, Councillor Mourinho Wilson, your question go ahead, our comment.

674
01:00:28,110 --> 01:00:39,690
Sorry, I'm just reading it live chair, so this is to report back to this committee and the procurement subcommittee.

675
01:00:39,690 --> 01:00:45,070
Can you please provide some clarity on the reporting direction?

676
01:00:46,070 --> 01:00:49,170
We're just dealing with B right now, which is just this amendment in front of you.

677
01:00:49,250 --> 01:00:52,890
I think, if I see the screen correctly, just the crossed out bit in B is what we're dealing

678
01:00:52,890 --> 01:00:53,470
with right now.

679
01:00:54,530 --> 01:00:57,850
We're just doing this in a different order than previously, then the G will be coming in

680
01:00:57,850 --> 01:00:58,110
a moment.

681
01:00:58,710 --> 01:01:03,510
And that G in, it'll be just be a referral, and there'll be instructions with the referral.

682
01:01:07,180 --> 01:01:07,660
Okay,

683
01:01:11,780 --> 01:01:18,140
so B is still reporting to the community benefits subcommittee on procurement policies.

684
01:01:18,380 --> 01:01:19,420
Is that what I'm understanding?

685
01:01:21,900 --> 01:01:22,500
That's your question.

686
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:23,260
Thank you so much.

687
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,720
So that's how it's written, yep.

688
01:01:28,420 --> 01:01:35,940
Well, I guess I'll have to wait to see G, but what is the role of the procurement subcommittee

689
01:01:35,940 --> 01:01:41,400
then what's the distinction to the mover?

690
01:01:46,550 --> 01:01:56,690
I just feel that the original work of the report that we received from the students at

691
01:01:56,690 --> 01:02:00,330
the research shop was on social procurement and specifically social procurement

692
01:02:00,330 --> 01:02:05,010
pilots themselves and that there's already a city committee that deals with procurement

693
01:02:05,010 --> 01:02:10,610
and that referring that work over to the procurement committee, maybe just be a better functional

694
01:02:10,610 --> 01:02:13,170
space for that social procurement pilot work.

695
01:02:13,810 --> 01:02:15,130
No, thank you.

696
01:02:15,250 --> 01:02:18,590
No, I agree with that, but I maybe I'm misreading this.

697
01:02:18,890 --> 01:02:23,830
Is the suggesting a report to this committee in the future?

698
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:26,880
Yes.

699
01:02:27,620 --> 01:02:35,260
Okay, but I respectfully to the mover, I thought I just heard the discussion to be held within

700
01:02:35,260 --> 01:02:41,520
and to be deliberated at a different committee,

701
01:02:41,660 --> 01:02:42,720
so maybe I'm misunderstanding.

702
01:02:44,700 --> 01:02:47,400
So the original intention was for us

703
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:49,260
just to get an information report back

704
01:02:49,260 --> 01:02:54,280
on those outcomes, not to debate or override AFNA

705
01:02:56,260 --> 01:02:59,060
or the subcommittee of procurements.

706
01:02:59,260 --> 01:03:00,200
I'm just gonna jump in here.

707
01:03:00,420 --> 01:03:02,760
So I think what's happening here is just a thing in B

708
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,900
or B is just saying that this is gonna report back

709
01:03:05,900 --> 01:03:07,300
to the community benefits.

710
01:03:08,620 --> 01:03:12,320
Part of the concept committee, the part that, um, legislative coordinators highlighted, right?

711
01:03:12,460 --> 01:03:15,760
So the question being asked by Councillor Morin Wilson is, well, wouldn't it make sense for

712
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:21,460
actually this information from B to actually report back to procurement since we're changing

713
01:03:21,460 --> 01:03:26,840
it to be about social procurement policies? Well, what Member Anderson is saying is that B,

714
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:31,700
through F, will all be referred to procurement anyways. So over there when they get to procurement,

715
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:35,580
procurement will then be able to do what it wants over, over up procurement before this to the next

716
01:03:35,980 --> 01:03:40,100
So I think what we're doing is trying to accomplish the same thing possibly in two different ways.

717
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:45,120
We can either frontend that now by changing this to say procurement or we can just prefer this over

718
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:48,120
to the procurement committee and they can deal with it. Councilor Morningwell, so are you proposing

719
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:52,420
that we perhaps take this part and be and actually make it clear that we're trying to get it over

720
01:03:52,420 --> 01:03:55,400
the procurement subcommittee and change this part and be so it's clearer?

721
01:03:57,580 --> 01:03:58,840
I think, big thank you

722
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:02,680
for the question, Chair. I think because I haven't been privy to the conversations,

723
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:11,520
I'm thinking in terms of a longitudinal lens, I don't know what the role of this community

724
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:19,240
benefits subcommittee will be if the suggestion then is that much of the deliberations on this

725
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:26,300
will be done at a different table and so that's where I'm going with this.

726
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:31,600
But I suggested earlier, and we haven't gotten there yet, is then when we refer all this,

727
01:04:32,060 --> 01:04:32,140
right?

728
01:04:32,260 --> 01:04:35,280
What we would do is say that the information would go to the procurement subcommittee

729
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:36,680
with an information report to come here.

730
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:39,640
So we would get the information here, and if we wanted to act on what we could, but the

731
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:40,760
primary work would be done over there.

732
01:04:41,380 --> 01:04:45,340
So that will come when this is all referred, that kind of clause will be there, to ensure

733
01:04:45,340 --> 01:04:47,140
that we're kept in the loop about what's happening.

734
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:51,520
But as the LC let me know, you can't actually have someone report to two places at once.

735
01:04:52,340 --> 01:04:54,120
So that's the challenge that we have here.

736
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:56,920
you can't have a direct report of recommendations come.

737
01:04:57,140 --> 01:04:59,180
Well, we can be having made it aware by, for instance,

738
01:04:59,500 --> 01:05:00,900
when it's reported the procurement subcommittee,

739
01:05:01,300 --> 01:05:03,200
it's added here as an item of correspondence, which we can lift,

740
01:05:03,340 --> 01:05:04,960
and then we can address issues that are we wish to,

741
01:05:05,180 --> 01:05:06,660
so we're kept informed as to what's happening.

742
01:05:07,140 --> 01:05:09,120
That, for the time being, seems like the only way to do

743
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:10,700
without trying to predict the future too much,

744
01:05:11,020 --> 01:05:12,920
because once the procurement subcommittee gets it,

745
01:05:13,220 --> 01:05:14,780
they'll be able to act on this as they see fit.

746
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:18,000
Okay, thank you.

747
01:05:18,220 --> 01:05:23,900
I guess I'm just not appreciating what will be the future agenda.

748
01:05:25,300 --> 01:05:30,120
and purpose of this subcommittee.

749
01:05:30,460 --> 01:05:33,960
So I trust that will become apparent in good time.

750
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:34,580
Thank you.

751
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:35,740
Thank you.

752
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:38,140
One second, sorry.

753
01:05:38,260 --> 01:05:40,200
Director Yakko wanted to jump in with something. Go ahead.

754
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:42,180
And then we'll get back to the comments on the amendment.

755
01:05:42,860 --> 01:05:45,760
To the chair, can I make one recommendation, please?

756
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:46,500
Or a request?

757
01:05:46,900 --> 01:05:47,400
Sure, please.

758
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:50,400
Where it says exploring social procurement policies.

759
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,560
Could we change it to exploring a social procurement policy?

760
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:59,520
There could be multiple policies, but it's an overarching policy as opposed to, so just

761
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:01,540
singular as opposed to, for a place.

762
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:02,080
Thank you.

763
01:06:02,100 --> 01:06:02,520
That was lovely.

764
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:03,620
Thank you for the intervention.

765
01:06:03,860 --> 01:06:04,180
Put a Y.

766
01:06:05,460 --> 01:06:06,080
Thank you.

767
01:06:09,710 --> 01:06:15,390
So on B, not seeing further comments, we have a mover, the Vice Chair, Andrews, the Secretary

768
01:06:15,390 --> 01:06:17,270
and Council are flying all those in favor of B.

769
01:06:21,850 --> 01:06:24,110
That's now there's going to be a motion

770
01:06:24,110 --> 01:06:27,610
to refer B through F.

771
01:06:28,390 --> 01:06:28,830
Yes.

772
01:06:28,830 --> 01:06:37,790
And we don't need to add G anymore, because we're just doing a motion to refer B and F with instructions, which was going to be G, but we don't need to have a G now to do so, according to the legislative coordinator.

773
01:06:38,450 --> 01:06:38,570
Yes.

774
01:06:39,110 --> 01:06:41,990
And so, then, we'll be, Carl, you want to speak to that.

775
01:06:42,670 --> 01:06:46,470
But before we do that, Councillor, I want to get a question and procedure that you wanted to ask about that one moment.

776
01:06:47,990 --> 01:06:55,450
I thought G included a whole tile of different organizational groups, Indigenous, blah, blah.

777
01:06:57,410 --> 01:07:00,050
in that language. We're going to put it in the motion.

778
01:07:00,450 --> 01:07:03,410
Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, because I just need your lady.

779
01:07:03,690 --> 01:07:07,590
For me, I thought it was G, including all of these different organizational groups.

780
01:07:07,770 --> 01:07:12,730
And then to refer was all of that, including G, which had the additional groups. Okay, thank

781
01:07:12,730 --> 01:07:13,070
you. Sorry.

782
01:07:13,430 --> 01:07:16,570
No, it's okay. We're going to be just referring B and F. And the instructions will include

783
01:07:16,570 --> 01:07:20,670
all of that information and instructions. So if you're going to see a legislative coordinator

784
01:07:20,670 --> 01:07:23,830
has asked us to do, so we can put that on the screen. Just people can see it. That'd be great.

785
01:07:24,510 --> 01:07:28,690
and then you've already read it once and so we'll just put it on the screen at this.

786
01:07:28,750 --> 01:07:31,030
Just put it on screen in the proper format for me.

787
01:07:31,110 --> 01:07:32,450
I'll see you a seconder for that.

788
01:07:35,370 --> 01:07:36,430
E through F.

789
01:07:37,430 --> 01:07:39,670
The seconder's Councillor Foyne again, who's put on the draw?

790
01:07:43,510 --> 01:07:45,610
While that's coming to the screen next on your dance card,

791
01:07:45,790 --> 01:07:48,750
we'll be addressing the very question you asked.

792
01:07:48,890 --> 01:07:50,990
Councillor Moran Wilson about what's going to be going on at this committee.

793
01:08:06,580 --> 01:08:09,040
Can you make that a little bigger for my eyes?

794
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:12,820
is going to make it down here at the end of the table.

795
01:08:13,380 --> 01:08:14,660
Thank you.

796
01:08:17,440 --> 01:08:17,560
Perfect.

797
01:08:35,420 --> 01:08:39,900
We're going to just take a moment of reading at this time, and I will take any speakers

798
01:08:39,900 --> 01:08:47,340
to this once the reading is finished, and people can speak to the instructions, but not to

799
01:08:47,340 --> 01:08:48,620
whether or not we're going to refer it.

800
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:50,100
I first saw on the speakers.

801
01:08:50,100 --> 01:08:50,580
Let's see.

802
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:51,340
Councillor Mourning Wilson.

803
01:08:57,660 --> 01:08:58,280
Thank you, Chair.

804
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:10,710
So the procurement subcommittee, if this direction is fulfilled, will receive this report

805
01:09:10,710 --> 01:09:30,960
and they will be requested to adopt and support a social procurement pilot policy

806
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:37,340
and that that pilot be informed with this priority.

807
01:09:37,340 --> 01:09:45,940
and if that is all true, which I have said, along with a expenditure ceiling,

808
01:09:49,580 --> 01:09:50,100
could someone

809
01:09:50,100 --> 01:10:04,560
with a governance lens help me understand the capacity of a subcommittee to inform and

810
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:07,800
and direct the work of another subcommittee.

811
01:10:08,420 --> 01:10:09,000
Thank you.

812
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:16,800
I'll briefly just say that our recommendations

813
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,180
are approved by the committee to which we report.

814
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:21,880
And then once that approval has happened,

815
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:23,420
so the body above us, right?

816
01:10:23,580 --> 01:10:25,940
Then that referral would take place ultimately

817
01:10:25,940 --> 01:10:27,060
to be ratified by council.

818
01:10:27,860 --> 01:10:31,120
So that process will go up and then it will go back down again.

819
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:35,220
Okay.

820
01:10:40,020 --> 01:10:41,020
Before we move on,

821
01:10:41,020 --> 01:10:44,520
I know that staff wanted to comment on the referral.

822
01:10:44,660 --> 01:10:45,740
There's some language they want to address

823
01:10:45,740 --> 01:10:49,260
and so I'll go ahead. I mean, we have some further discussion about that time.

824
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:59,060
Thank you, Chair. I would represent that the staff would appreciate if there would be some

825
01:10:59,060 --> 01:11:09,000
greater flexibility within the referral. We've just had some conversations that the threshold

826
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:16,060
of 200,000 and the equity-deserving groups and Indigenous businesses is an important

827
01:11:16,060 --> 01:11:25,580
focus, however, could then exclude other opportunities, and would there be an openness amongst

828
01:11:25,580 --> 01:11:34,780
the committee to amend the first part to say some of or ensure that a portion of the projects

829
01:11:34,780 --> 01:11:42,780
contracts are with the parameters that Carl has mentioned just so that we don't restrict

830
01:11:42,780 --> 01:11:47,840
ourselves and find that we can't do this work or don't have a committee mandate to

831
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:56,160
do the work beyond the smaller contracts with the groups that are mentioned.

832
01:11:57,620 --> 01:12:02,360
So by understanding correctly what's being proposed is if we could change the language so that

833
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:09,000
it's a little bit less exclusive so that the larger network of social procurement is included

834
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:12,580
without us being too narrow, but obviously still keeping those in there so we see where the

835
01:12:12,580 --> 01:12:16,680
priority lies. It's not my general understanding of what you're saying. Okay, so I'll look for the

836
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:20,660
mover on that in terms of whether or not that be fine to change. It seems like a couple of

837
01:12:20,660 --> 01:12:24,960
a couple of words and a couple of prepositions to make that more more inclusive. It's my understanding.

838
01:12:26,220 --> 01:12:32,440
So, the original intent of that threshold was actually going back to the June 24th,

839
01:12:32,440 --> 01:12:38,100
Sandra Hamilton recommendation that sets some various outcomes and very clear procurement

840
01:12:38,100 --> 01:12:42,760
recommendations in her documents around equity deserving groups.

841
01:12:42,900 --> 01:12:48,480
And I'm very afraid that in a social procurement pilot, if we're not targeting the specific

842
01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:53,860
groups that we want to help, even if we fail at that, that that's a valuable lesson to

843
01:12:53,860 --> 01:13:01,720
learned as a corporation, whereas if the language is too broad, we may end up with just undefined

844
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:08,060
social value outcome for the social procurement pilot. So I'm a little bit hesitant to do that.

845
01:13:08,300 --> 01:13:12,640
And then the thresholds themselves were just drawn specifically from the consulting report that

846
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:22,780
you guys did back in 2018 and 2019 in terms of those both goods and services thresholds for pilots

847
01:13:22,780 --> 01:13:34,560
It's from that report specifically, and to allow for smaller businesses to access these by keeping the threshold low as pilots.

848
01:13:35,300 --> 01:13:37,540
So those were the specific thoughts.

849
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:42,280
I know some of my other committee colleagues have some other thoughts as well, so I will.

850
01:13:43,500 --> 01:13:45,160
Yeah, let me just make sure I understood.

851
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:47,480
I think I actually misunderstood and so my apologies.

852
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:49,760
I want to make sure we're all talking about the same thing here.

853
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:52,520
And then before I take anybody else on it, we let it want to speak.

854
01:13:53,720 --> 01:14:01,100
My understanding of what you just said was that you wanted us to broaden this out based on the groups that were listed.

855
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:06,440
Is that right? General Manager Burton, did you say you were talking about Indigenous own, diverse own, inequities serving businesses?

856
01:14:06,660 --> 01:14:08,540
And that was the group that I thought you were trying to expand out.

857
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:13,420
But here's the language that's already there. It just says prioritize. That's not exclusive language.

858
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:18,800
So, you'll be proud, I don't think that's going to be exclusive if we're asking those things to be prioritized.

859
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:22,900
And then there was a discussion about the dollar value.

860
01:14:22,980 --> 01:14:25,080
If I didn't hear that being raised here, I hear being raised here.

861
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:27,480
So I'm just trying to make sure we're all following along here.

862
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:32,320
So it seems like there's worry from staff about the word prioritized.

863
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:32,960
Is that my understanding?

864
01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:35,820
Please clarify.

865
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:37,300
I want to make sure we're having the right discussion.

866
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:37,980
Go ahead.

867
01:14:38,500 --> 01:14:47,400
Through the chair, for me, I just need to have a full understanding and I completely appreciate where Mr. Anders is coming from.

868
01:14:48,140 --> 01:14:58,100
With respect to the 200,000, if we keep it at 200,000, then we're strapped not being able to do an invitational R of Q and R.

869
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:29,580
As is the Canadian free trade agreement levels. So if we had more flexibility with respect to the dollar value, I would appreciate that, because that will allow us to do very smaller pilots and be successful in target the right community organizations with respect to the word prioritize. If there was no expectation behind that word, I think then perhaps we could move forward with that word. I just don't want to, I don't want to be restrictive for staff.

870
01:15:29,580 --> 01:15:35,680
We fully understand what these pithers are for, because of we've done the pithers previously in the intent.

871
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:44,100
So, I'm not sure if we need the mandate to move forward with these, because that would be the intent anyways.

872
01:15:47,730 --> 01:15:49,950
Okay, a couple of things are clarified before we keep moving.

873
01:15:50,070 --> 01:15:52,390
Just trying to make sure we're managing the conversation in a way that makes sense.

874
01:15:52,610 --> 01:15:55,030
So, I think what you said, Tina, was the opposite of what it says.

875
01:15:55,090 --> 01:15:59,610
I think you said you were looking for a smaller dollar amount, but this is not to exceed 200,000.

876
01:15:59,610 --> 01:16:00,330
and so could you clarify?

877
01:16:02,170 --> 01:16:05,490
Sorry, Councillor, we need flexibility.

878
01:16:06,450 --> 01:16:09,290
So if we get a project to come forward

879
01:16:09,290 --> 01:16:12,030
and it's under that 200,000, that's great.

880
01:16:12,150 --> 01:16:13,150
We can issue it out.

881
01:16:13,690 --> 01:16:16,170
If we have something like a janitorial contract,

882
01:16:16,930 --> 01:16:18,690
millions of dollars in that contract,

883
01:16:18,690 --> 01:16:20,730
but if there's the ability to chunk out

884
01:16:21,370 --> 01:16:24,870
part of that contract and perhaps use that

885
01:16:24,870 --> 01:16:27,990
and with respect to social value procurement

886
01:16:27,990 --> 01:16:36,690
and take a bit of that contract and do it so that it's tailored to these organizations.

887
01:16:36,690 --> 01:16:38,290
I think that's in its best interest.

888
01:16:38,710 --> 01:16:43,510
But with this information, I'm strapped because the contract itself is over 200,000.

889
01:16:44,450 --> 01:16:51,210
So I just don't want to get caught up in the language that straps staff from doing the pilots.

890
01:16:51,210 --> 01:16:59,150
We fully understand the intent of the pilots and the equity-deserving groups to be reached

891
01:16:59,150 --> 01:17:00,430
out to and to engage.

892
01:17:02,630 --> 01:17:04,390
Again, we need some flexibility.

893
01:17:04,850 --> 01:17:14,070
It could be over the 200, it could be under, if it's under the 133, 100 threshold, then

894
01:17:14,070 --> 01:17:17,150
we can do certainly an invited invitation.

895
01:17:17,150 --> 01:17:24,070
And we could certainly spearhead those connect organizations alone, as opposed to doing something public.

896
01:17:25,770 --> 01:17:29,110
Okay, here what's happening here. I think we're entering into a procurement discussion,

897
01:17:29,110 --> 01:17:32,610
which is probably the original point of trying to get this over to procurement.

898
01:17:32,730 --> 01:17:35,490
This is just our recommendation to procurement. They can do what they want over there.

899
01:17:35,930 --> 01:17:38,730
I mean, they can amend this and change it before it comes back and get sell.

900
01:17:38,870 --> 01:17:42,550
That's why we're doing this in a certain kind of way. This is just our recommendation here.

901
01:17:43,050 --> 01:17:46,210
Ultimately it's up to them. I'll go to Member Necklace-Guy and then to Councillor Wilson

902
01:17:46,210 --> 01:17:49,490
though they had further comments on this and we'll try and see if we can resolve it through

903
01:17:49,490 --> 01:17:53,110
the discussion. Thank you Chair and through you Chair.

904
01:17:53,890 --> 01:18:00,090
I appreciate the comment that you had raised about the word prioritizing and whether or not

905
01:18:00,090 --> 01:18:04,090
that offered flexibility. I hope that it offers flexibility because it doesn't say solely

906
01:18:04,090 --> 01:18:11,630
reward two or a word two but I just heard a remark from the Director about if the word

907
01:18:11,630 --> 01:18:16,970
prioritized doesn't hold expectation, then it offers flexibility. I think the word prioritizes

908
01:18:16,970 --> 01:18:21,510
there on purpose because it holds a sense of expectation, and it means what it means.

909
01:18:21,750 --> 01:18:28,130
So I still think that the term prioritized does offer that flexibility because it is not all

910
01:18:28,130 --> 01:18:36,050
exclusive, it is not all binding. But I would love to hear from staff through you, Chair,

911
01:18:36,990 --> 01:18:42,530
why the word prioritized does not offer the flexibility that would be appreciated.

912
01:18:45,430 --> 01:18:52,530
Through the chair, the concern is less with the word prioritized than it is with the second part

913
01:18:52,530 --> 01:18:59,910
of the recommendation, which is definitive, and that the goods and services threshold for

914
01:18:59,910 --> 01:19:05,450
these pilots not to exceed. There is no wiggle room there.

915
01:19:08,270 --> 01:19:12,250
Okay, so we're now to seemingly on the point about the dollar amount, it seems to be the

916
01:19:12,250 --> 01:19:15,850
remaining thing to speak about at this point. Notwithstanding other things people like to bring

917
01:19:15,850 --> 01:19:16,890
up, Councillor Morinwell said.

918
01:19:19,860 --> 01:19:20,500
Thank you.

919
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:27,180
This is getting to some of the confusion of my first

920
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:36,420
questions. Could someone just clarify for me once again then? One of the recommendations or we

921
01:19:36,420 --> 01:19:45,660
talked about the importance of hiring a consultant and that consultant would be informing the

922
01:19:45,660 --> 01:19:53,060
social value procurement policy. This amendment seems to be defining the policy.

923
01:19:55,040 --> 01:20:05,660
And it's doing so by giving priority to certain groups or principles. And I just need clarity

924
01:20:05,660 --> 01:20:10,180
on where did, what is the role then of the consultant?

925
01:20:16,510 --> 01:20:18,030
Someone from staff able to answer that?

926
01:20:18,270 --> 01:20:22,130
I think just to start, I think this came from the original consultant's report,

927
01:20:22,330 --> 01:20:23,970
Sandra Hamilton's report, some of this stuff.

928
01:20:24,090 --> 01:20:28,410
But anyways, go ahead, whoever wants to respond to where this is at.

929
01:20:28,870 --> 01:20:33,930
You know, respectfully, I don't think this didn't come from staff.

930
01:20:34,250 --> 01:20:35,670
It came from a member of the group.

931
01:20:36,150 --> 01:20:40,030
So I'm just requesting just to be clear on my question to staff.

932
01:20:40,030 --> 01:20:53,020
was the intent of the recommendation to secure a consultant, to ultimately inform or to advise

933
01:20:53,020 --> 01:21:03,020
on what the social procurement policy would, what it would be populated with, what values

934
01:21:03,020 --> 01:21:07,060
why, what would that mean in terms of specific groups perhaps.

935
01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:11,440
That's what I'm seeking, thank you.

936
01:21:11,440 --> 01:21:17,400
through the chair. Yes, that's my understanding. The consultant would help us develop the policy

937
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:24,420
and how we're going to carry out the policy. And when I look at the jurisdictional scan that

938
01:21:24,420 --> 01:21:30,680
pre-ended various municipalities, use various tools with respect to social procurement,

939
01:21:31,660 --> 01:21:39,700
by using surveys with the vendors to attest to if they have simply various policies within their

940
01:21:39,700 --> 01:21:50,900
corporate entity that assist with social awareness. Some entities have and require

941
01:21:50,900 --> 01:21:57,100
bidders to register themselves as an equity deserving group. So there's various

942
01:21:57,100 --> 01:22:05,560
levels of rigor that various agencies carry when they're doing their social

943
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:30,260
I'm not sure we're at that point, this is why we need the external consultant to come in to tell us what other municipalities are actually putting into play to give us some examples because I'm looking to them to have previous example or previous experience and rolling this out and to give us their best advice with respect to how we can implement this within the city of Hamilton.

944
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:36,840
So I'm not exactly sure if we could do this from the get go, we need someone to come in

945
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:44,560
and tell us if we were, for example, to use the registry. How does that work? What does it look

946
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:51,220
like? What does it mean? How do I, you know, how do I, how do we reject bidders who aren't registered?

947
01:22:51,460 --> 01:22:55,900
Do we allow them some time to register and so on and so forth? So there's more, it's very complex.

948
01:22:55,900 --> 01:22:59,440
I'm not sure if I've answered your question, cancer, though.

949
01:23:00,340 --> 01:23:01,420
No, you have.

950
01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:11,560
And I respectfully, my read of this is to define a policy which we haven't yet defined

951
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:12,260
yet.

952
01:23:13,220 --> 01:23:23,740
For the very reasons I read the thorough report and the environmental scan is that it requires

953
01:23:23,740 --> 01:23:30,600
is rigor and it requires engagement with the very partners that were seeking to ensure

954
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:40,080
success. And I'm not personally disputing the value of that which is prioritized in

955
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:47,920
this motion. I am suggesting that this specific language in this motion is premature because

956
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:55,180
Because we don't have a policy yet and we started this meeting by saying the staff who've

957
01:23:55,180 --> 01:23:58,680
done the due diligence, they did a very thorough job.

958
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:03,400
We are all holding our breath because we thought we lost that work due to cyber.

959
01:24:04,220 --> 01:24:12,540
We were able to breathe again when we were security, and I think there is value in the work that

960
01:24:12,540 --> 01:24:17,140
work has been thoroughly tested through our questions today which have been very deliberative,

961
01:24:17,140 --> 01:24:24,660
focused, um, challenging. And now we're here landing on a definition. And I'm just a

962
01:24:24,660 --> 01:24:33,700
little confused, um, as to how I, as a member, would have pulled, um, having had that rigorous

963
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:43,440
scan done, having heard the caution, and then jumping to what we're doing here is defining up

964
01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:51,920
policy and I would not be able to advise, I would not be able to, I don't think as a member,

965
01:24:53,500 --> 01:25:03,320
uphold the rationale that informed this. I don't know why we would have landed there. So

966
01:25:03,320 --> 01:25:09,260
that's my challenge. Also the dollar amount and I appreciate the massaging of it. I don't know where

967
01:25:09,260 --> 01:25:17,420
that came from. So I'm just expressing some real reservation. And I don't think this

968
01:25:17,420 --> 01:25:26,020
is in keeping, frankly, with the evidence that has been shared with us today. Thank

969
01:25:26,020 --> 01:25:26,200
you.

970
01:25:28,780 --> 01:25:33,200
Okay. And trying to chart the path forward, I'm going to suggest a few different things here.

971
01:25:33,300 --> 01:25:37,300
Number one, that dollar amount came right of the Sandra Hamilton report. That's what was

972
01:25:37,300 --> 01:25:39,160
said earlier, so I'm repeating that so everyone knows.

973
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:41,380
But what?

974
01:25:41,380 --> 01:25:42,720
That report is respectfully.

975
01:25:42,860 --> 01:25:44,460
That report is not on the floor today.

976
01:25:44,660 --> 01:25:49,640
We're having this discussion within the context of a report that is on the agenda.

977
01:25:50,300 --> 01:25:50,700
I understand.

978
01:25:50,820 --> 01:25:53,080
I'm just answering the question that was asked, but where it was coming from.

979
01:25:53,420 --> 01:25:54,640
I'm just like, you know, where it was coming from.

980
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:58,380
I must suggest I get a came from today's report, just where it was coming from.

981
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:02,880
So right now there's an amendment on the floor.

982
01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:06,580
I'm not seeing further speakers to the amendment, we have a couple of different things here.

983
01:26:06,580 --> 01:26:09,940
We can anyone here who wishes can ask to change the amendment.

984
01:26:10,100 --> 01:26:15,340
What I'm sensing from the discussion is that the part after the referral to the Procurement

985
01:26:15,340 --> 01:26:19,840
Subcommittee, which starting with with all the way to the end, is something that some

986
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:23,240
are not feeling comfortable about, is why I'm hearing, just listening, by listening

987
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:29,320
yours on, staff have raised two flags with that issue, and then Councillor Warren Wilson

988
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:33,860
has raised some other flags with that part, and so if anyone would like to ask the mover

989
01:26:33,860 --> 01:26:39,380
to a friendly amendment and a friendly manner, they can go for it, or we can have a further

990
01:26:39,380 --> 01:26:43,000
amendment and throw it on the further amendment to strike that. There are various paths forward

991
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:46,760
here. So I guess I would turn to you, Councillor Mory Wilson, since he raised the concern as a member

992
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:48,460
of the committee. Is there anything you would like to do at this time?

993
01:26:54,130 --> 01:26:56,510
Well, just as the way—it's not

994
01:26:56,510 --> 01:27:03,570
my motion, respectfully. It's not—the onus is not a need to rewrite. If the mover seeks to

995
01:27:03,570 --> 01:27:08,770
incorporate any of the comments back, just as it is presently worded. I wouldn't be able to support

996
01:27:08,770 --> 01:27:14,310
it because I think it's putting the cart for the horse. It's defining a policy without the work

997
01:27:14,310 --> 01:27:15,610
of the policy work being done.

998
01:27:19,090 --> 01:27:22,530
Okay, so I'll turn to the mover because I'm just wanting to make

999
01:27:22,530 --> 01:27:26,310
sure we can move this process forward in a way that makes legislative sense. That's all. So I don't

1000
01:27:26,310 --> 01:27:31,170
want everyone to understand what we're going to do when we vote on this so that if we're voting in

1001
01:27:31,170 --> 01:27:34,610
favor against or voting for the whole thing if we don't want to amend it then we don't. Anybody

1002
01:27:34,610 --> 01:27:35,990
Anybody else want to speak to this at this time?

1003
01:27:38,340 --> 01:27:38,700
Is it weed?

1004
01:27:39,480 --> 01:27:40,240
Remember Andrews?

1005
01:27:41,440 --> 01:27:45,060
So the, the mandate of this committee was to come up

1006
01:27:45,060 --> 01:27:47,420
with a community benefits protocol.

1007
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:50,200
That was the mandate of this committee.

1008
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:53,920
The McMaster report was to look at one aspect

1009
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:57,640
of community benefits, specifically social procurement

1010
01:27:58,440 --> 01:28:01,920
and develop a social procurement pilot projects.

1011
01:28:02,300 --> 01:28:05,180
I want to just make sure by prioritizing

1012
01:28:05,180 --> 01:28:11,560
targeted groups, which is, actually, if you go through the appendix to the reports are

1013
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:16,140
all of the groups that tend to be prioritized in all of the municipalities based on the hard work

1014
01:28:16,140 --> 01:28:20,280
that's been done in the jurisdictional scan. I just want to make sure that those pilots are given

1015
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:27,560
the most priority towards that. I don't think this is setting what the total framework or framework

1016
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:35,200
I think that the chair has, especially with recommendation A, direction that the key

1017
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:39,400
will be bringing forward in terms of how we can re-center the framework discussion

1018
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:42,260
itself around the entire policy.

1019
01:28:42,540 --> 01:28:49,880
I wanted to just set some constraints on the social procurement policy itself on looking

1020
01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:54,820
at some of those best practices, and this helps us look at Toronto just released that I

1021
01:28:54,820 --> 01:29:01,040
I know that on December 6, Social Procurement Policy Review, which was quite in depth outlining

1022
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:05,060
some of the challenges that they've had with their Social Procurement that a consultant would,

1023
01:29:05,340 --> 01:29:12,860
but most definitely be looking at and reading as to the dollar value, I just, you know, that was

1024
01:29:12,860 --> 01:29:18,860
sort of an arbitrary pick based on a previous recommendation of a previous consulting report.

1025
01:29:19,060 --> 01:29:23,540
I'm open to procurement changing it or the procurement committee changing it, but I really want us

1026
01:29:23,540 --> 01:29:29,400
to focus strictly on the social procurement piece, that is to say what was recommended

1027
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:34,820
right in the staff report, which was those catering contracts, those small opportunities

1028
01:29:34,820 --> 01:29:40,840
for to pilot social procurements, so that we can get some report backs on those challenges

1029
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:45,220
while this committee works on the broader mandate of A, and I think what the chair is bringing

1030
01:29:45,220 --> 01:29:52,500
forward shortly on some recommendations on a path forward to develop that framework of the community

1031
01:29:52,500 --> 01:29:57,220
benefits, which is what this Protocol Advisory Committee was originally structured to do,

1032
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:10,620
With a very narrow and leave it with procurement, because they're the experts in the city on that particular piece of work. So that's my response.

1033
01:30:13,670 --> 01:30:31,430
Okay. And so just waiting for legislative coordinator, because my thought is that what we may wish to do is just have a referral sections, arts, A and B. One is that we refer to the procurement subcommittee and B is the rest of it. So that we're still doing the work of referring it. And we're not going to, that motion's not going to potentially fail as a result of the rest of the language.

1034
01:30:31,430 --> 01:30:34,190
because I think everyone's on the board of this Board of the Procurement Subcommittee,

1035
01:30:35,890 --> 01:30:38,450
but maybe having an A and B might be something we can do,

1036
01:30:38,790 --> 01:30:40,650
the legislative coordinator is just reviewing right now,

1037
01:30:40,850 --> 01:30:42,670
because I don't think the procedural by-law speaks to that,

1038
01:30:43,030 --> 01:30:44,270
splitting a referral into two bits,

1039
01:30:44,470 --> 01:30:45,530
so we may just be able to do so,

1040
01:30:45,990 --> 01:30:48,390
or some other procedural gymnastics.

1041
01:30:49,850 --> 01:30:53,210
My job here is just to make sure we can actually have a legislative decision that makes sense

1042
01:30:53,210 --> 01:30:54,350
at the end of the day.

1043
01:30:57,470 --> 01:31:00,310
Sorry for clarification from the Chair in the LC,

1044
01:31:00,710 --> 01:31:05,650
then we would be looking at reviewing, so, D,

1045
01:31:08,030 --> 01:31:12,530
C, D. No, sorry, let's just pause here.

1046
01:31:12,890 --> 01:31:14,670
Yeah, I'm just suggesting we do.

1047
01:31:14,950 --> 01:31:15,130
Okay.

1048
01:31:15,270 --> 01:31:15,770
Just give me a sec.

1049
01:31:33,850 --> 01:31:36,130
So does anybody, we can't split them into two sections.

1050
01:31:36,690 --> 01:31:37,630
Thank you for looking into that.

1051
01:31:37,670 --> 01:31:40,450
Let's say for Darryl Goethe, appreciate your hard work during the middle of the meeting.

1052
01:31:41,890 --> 01:31:44,730
I'm seeing some, Heather Chasner, do you want to speak to this?

1053
01:31:46,450 --> 01:31:51,830
I'm just listening to what staff had asked and saying, why can't we just strike and that

1054
01:31:51,830 --> 01:31:56,570
the goods and services are special for pilot not exceed 200,000, why can't we just slash

1055
01:31:58,040 --> 01:31:58,400
that out?

1056
01:32:00,710 --> 01:32:03,070
You want to put that amendment on before you're, what are more than welcome to?

1057
01:32:03,710 --> 01:32:06,170
I'll put that amendment on the floor if I've got a seconder.

1058
01:32:11,690 --> 01:32:17,370
Mr. Fein is going to second slash out a bit from, and if the goods and services are special

1059
01:32:17,370 --> 01:32:21,890
for these pilots not to exceed $200,000, so the ending part of that is the amendments on

1060
01:32:21,890 --> 01:32:29,550
the floor. Does anybody want to clarify that? It's been highlighted. Can you see that they're

1061
01:32:29,550 --> 01:32:32,550
councillors? I'm just making sure for accessibility reasons that you're following along because you're

1062
01:32:32,550 --> 01:32:42,310
not in the room. Thank you. I could see the slash out. Okay. So I understand that we have an

1063
01:32:42,310 --> 01:32:46,190
amendment on the referral, and the amendment is whether we slash that bit at the end of

1064
01:32:47,550 --> 01:32:51,830
or not any discussion on the amendment to the referral.

1065
01:32:51,890 --> 01:32:53,050
I can accept that as friendly.

1066
01:32:53,250 --> 01:32:54,410
I don't think we need to vote.

1067
01:32:55,030 --> 01:32:55,510
Oh, okay.

1068
01:32:55,790 --> 01:32:55,970
Great.

1069
01:32:56,390 --> 01:32:56,950
So that's an exception.

1070
01:32:56,950 --> 01:32:57,770
Just friendly.

1071
01:32:57,990 --> 01:32:59,070
We're going to take that out.

1072
01:32:59,170 --> 01:32:59,750
Drop that out.

1073
01:32:59,890 --> 01:33:01,990
If that's, you know, the will of procurement in that home.

1074
01:33:05,330 --> 01:33:05,630
Right.

1075
01:33:05,790 --> 01:33:07,770
And so on that,

1076
01:33:09,810 --> 01:33:12,110
referral to the procurement committee with these instructions

1077
01:33:12,970 --> 01:33:15,570
for their further deliberation.

1078
01:33:16,050 --> 01:33:16,950
I'm going to call the vote.

1079
01:33:17,170 --> 01:33:18,490
All those in favor of the referral?

1080
01:33:30,150 --> 01:33:39,170
I'm going to hand the chair to, Mr. Andrews, to introduce something with respect to A.

1081
01:33:39,350 --> 01:33:46,430
And I want to just start by saying that, again, we did our best to try and reach finance

1082
01:33:46,430 --> 01:33:50,090
staff with respect to the budget process to ensure we could do this in the exactly right way.

1083
01:33:50,970 --> 01:33:55,370
Unfortunately, we weren't able to connect with them fully, so we have something here, and

1084
01:33:55,370 --> 01:33:57,850
I'll turn to the legislative coordinator there.

1085
01:33:58,310 --> 01:33:59,750
I heard the chair.

1086
01:34:01,070 --> 01:34:05,230
Through the chair, I was in correspondence with the City Clerk on the matter.

1087
01:34:05,530 --> 01:34:07,870
Committee can't direct staff to prepare an amendment.

1088
01:34:08,130 --> 01:34:16,130
They could request that council consider an amendment to the budget process, and then a member

1089
01:34:16,130 --> 01:34:21,350
Council could work with staff offline to draft that amendment to bring forward to the GIC budget process.

1090
01:34:26,060 --> 01:34:29,260
Thanks, Cameron. Through the Chair to the Legislative Coordinator,

1091
01:34:29,580 --> 01:34:32,080
thanks very much for some draft language to be shared there.

1092
01:34:32,620 --> 01:34:34,900
And if I can speak to this briefly while the language is going up,

1093
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:42,400
the purpose of this is to allow for the work of this committee to carry on. At this point,

1094
01:34:42,420 --> 01:34:47,800
as you learned at the very beginning of this meeting, Brianne Gashko is no longer with this work

1095
01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:53,400
and is already on to doing other work at the City of Hamilton and grateful that she was able

1096
01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:57,480
to be here to help us today, but this is an longer part of her job and we don't have

1097
01:34:57,480 --> 01:35:02,220
a resource at this point to be able to be framework slash protocol work that we need to be

1098
01:35:02,220 --> 01:35:06,240
doing here as a whole. The entire purpose of this committee is that it's going to develop

1099
01:35:06,240 --> 01:35:11,020
a protocol or framework through which community benefits or social value, however we want to understand

1100
01:35:11,020 --> 01:35:15,420
that, is going to function and flow in the City of Hamilton. And we can't do that work if we don't have

1101
01:35:15,420 --> 01:35:21,080
a resource. And so this motion will just be asking the budget process, the mayor, council,

1102
01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:25,320
however we want to understand that process, right, to dedicate some type of resource to

1103
01:35:25,320 --> 01:35:30,240
develop that framework. That's pretty much it, and nutshell, and that is the language that

1104
01:35:30,240 --> 01:35:34,980
we've come up with at the moment, based on the information that's been received by the folks

1105
01:35:34,980 --> 01:35:39,190
in our city clerk's office. I think I need a seconder.

1106
01:35:43,020 --> 01:35:44,020
Councillor Foyne is going to second.

1107
01:35:44,020 --> 01:35:44,200
And

1108
01:35:49,220 --> 01:35:54,000
without this, we are kind of a bit of a bit of a longer head, so to speak in terms

1109
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:57,980
of how we do the primary work of this committee, so that's why it's there.

1110
01:35:58,240 --> 01:36:00,400
Is there any conversation on the amendment?

1111
01:36:01,260 --> 01:36:08,260
Let's just get some clarification just so through the chair, so this would be a new subsection

1112
01:36:08,260 --> 01:36:13,920
that's being added, subsection G, am I correct in making that assumption?

1113
01:36:15,280 --> 01:36:18,620
Through the chair, what I'm going to say is you don't better than me, so take it away.

1114
01:36:18,620 --> 01:36:25,240
All right, the subsection G is, so committee has dealt with section V2F, so what's outstanding

1115
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:31,340
is subsection A. Oh no, this is really an amendment A part of that, so it's amendment A because

1116
01:36:31,340 --> 01:36:38,780
A right now sets out this path that we can't really embark down without getting some funding

1117
01:36:38,780 --> 01:36:45,600
to do so, and so we need someone to come in, have that conversation begin to do that work

1118
01:36:45,600 --> 01:36:48,640
engagement with the public, you name it, like we do with everything here in the city.

1119
01:36:50,160 --> 01:36:56,600
So it's a mending A to say we need a person for that work.

1120
01:37:18,140 --> 01:37:22,820
We can have speakers list, well, are we finishing up with the amendment wording first?

1121
01:37:27,500 --> 01:37:28,940
Waiting for the LC here, so

1122
01:37:38,440 --> 01:37:42,740
Councillor Wilson and Councillor Tathson as soon as we are finished

1123
01:37:42,740 --> 01:37:46,750
with the LC's.

1124
01:37:47,910 --> 01:37:48,290
Sorry.

1125
01:37:48,290 --> 01:37:53,110
So, through the chair, I think what would be the best course of action would be to defer

1126
01:37:54,930 --> 01:38:04,590
A, because if I'm understanding correctly, you need the resources to do A, and that this

1127
01:38:04,590 --> 01:38:13,290
new direction for the budget resource request be dealt with separately, because if you would

1128
01:38:13,290 --> 01:38:26,170
defer a with the instruction that's not really doing anything by itself because it's being deferred with the instruction with the instructions.

1129
01:38:27,410 --> 01:38:28,010
It's

1130
01:38:30,250 --> 01:38:32,630
too late to defer it to the budget process, unfortunately.

1131
01:38:33,670 --> 01:38:42,970
So I think the best course of action would be to add a new subsection G, which I can share for you.

1132
01:38:42,970 --> 01:38:56,850
And that someone else would be able to move the deferral of subsection A, which there are some members that I believe still haven't spoken to the report who could do so.

1133
01:38:58,610 --> 01:39:00,650
Okay, I'm happy with that through the chair.

1134
01:39:01,170 --> 01:39:07,410
Thanks for the extra help. I just had a coordinator go to, so I'm just going to move G and then someone who hasn't spoken to defer A.

1135
01:39:07,790 --> 01:39:08,250
Great. Thank you.

1136
01:39:09,310 --> 01:39:17,990
So I'm starting with a speaker's list on the amendment G and I believe it was Councillor

1137
01:39:17,990 --> 01:39:22,270
Wilson and then Councillor Cattison. Councillor Wilson.

1138
01:39:28,450 --> 01:39:33,670
Thank you. Chair, my apologies on just looking for a language on G again, please.

1139
01:39:36,580 --> 01:39:37,560
Is it amended

1140
01:39:37,920 --> 01:39:45,500
or is it as there's a new G? Could you just provide benefit, reiterate the language? Thank

1141
01:39:45,500 --> 01:39:45,760
Thank you.

1142
01:39:49,190 --> 01:39:51,090
We'll get that up on the screen for you shortly.

1143
01:39:51,890 --> 01:39:52,310
Thank you.

1144
01:40:39,150 --> 01:40:42,790
The Chair, do I still have the floor to seeking confirmation?

1145
01:40:43,610 --> 01:40:43,750
Yes.

1146
01:40:44,350 --> 01:40:44,650
Okay.

1147
01:40:44,790 --> 01:40:45,050
Thank you.

1148
01:40:52,120 --> 01:41:00,640
What is the amount, please, that the Chair will be seeking to, what is the amount that

1149
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:02,200
will be informing the amendment?

1150
01:41:04,140 --> 01:41:04,740
Councillor Crouch.

1151
01:41:07,790 --> 01:41:08,430
What is the amount?

1152
01:41:08,770 --> 01:41:09,230
Is that a question?

1153
01:41:09,790 --> 01:41:09,950
Yes.

1154
01:41:10,930 --> 01:41:14,150
No, we're referring this to staff to come up with the business case for that, but essentially

1155
01:41:14,150 --> 01:41:16,790
is what the note pardon me, we're bringing an amendment together, and I'm going to work with

1156
01:41:16,790 --> 01:41:20,210
staff to figure that out. That will be in the amendment that's forthcoming. I don't have that

1157
01:41:20,210 --> 01:41:22,790
information here today, but that will be in the amendment forthcoming.

1158
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:32,360
But it's just so I understand it. The amendment is going to be served at the GIC Budget Committee.

1159
01:41:35,560 --> 01:41:45,840
and you're not able to apprise this subcommittee what amount you're seeking permission to get?

1160
01:41:46,500 --> 01:41:49,700
I wish I could. I don't have that information or I would apprise if I promised.

1161
01:41:50,340 --> 01:41:52,340
I don't just don't have that information through the chair to provide.

1162
01:41:52,940 --> 01:41:56,440
But that's the whole point of this as we've been trying to figure out a way to advance this work

1163
01:41:56,440 --> 01:41:59,360
given the budget timing and the way things are going with the new process.

1164
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:04,020
And so this is the best way to be able to figure out how to do it to be completely honest with you is to do this work.

1165
01:42:04,380 --> 01:42:08,720
But through the chair, I believe that some staff has, they want to, so I'll be quiet.

1166
01:42:10,840 --> 01:42:11,720
So, GM.

1167
01:42:12,700 --> 01:42:15,320
Thank you, through you, Chair, to the Councillor.

1168
01:42:15,940 --> 01:42:23,580
We're just conferring on the bench and wanted to clarify that we are not looking at resourcing in the multiple FTEs.

1169
01:42:23,580 --> 01:42:30,480
like was in the alternative to the recommendations in the report, the maximum that we would need

1170
01:42:30,840 --> 01:42:36,860
to do this work if we're strictly looking at the development of a framework would be one FTE.

1171
01:42:37,540 --> 01:42:44,080
However, staff are also thinking that it would be less expensive and potentially faster

1172
01:42:44,620 --> 01:42:52,300
to procure a consultant to do the framework development and that could be discussed post meeting.

1173
01:42:52,300 --> 01:42:59,400
but to give you a sense of the scope and then the budget or the GIC budget would

1174
01:42:59,400 --> 01:43:05,240
either be January 23rd or February the 7th in terms of days. Thank you.

1175
01:43:06,880 --> 01:43:07,760
Councillor Wilson.

1176
01:43:10,110 --> 01:43:18,390
Okay, so respectfully my reservation is based on seeking this

1177
01:43:18,390 --> 01:43:31,750
subcommittees approval to submit a budget request via an amendment or an undefined

1178
01:43:31,750 --> 01:43:39,230
amount for an undefined purpose, which may, if I understood, Jamburden correctly, could

1179
01:43:39,230 --> 01:43:50,850
be one FTE and I'm not sure my recollection of the amount in the report was it 75. I'm not

1180
01:43:50,850 --> 01:44:03,350
sure an amount to secure a consultant is it's challenging for me for my governance perspective to

1181
01:44:03,350 --> 01:44:13,550
the land approval to a budget ask that is yet undefined and in amount and in scope.

1182
01:44:14,490 --> 01:44:17,250
So I'll have the mover respond first.

1183
01:44:19,230 --> 01:44:20,550
Yeah, I don't have to do this here.

1184
01:44:20,630 --> 01:44:23,830
I'm just doing it here because I think this is where we're all having a conversation

1185
01:44:23,830 --> 01:44:24,870
about community benefits.

1186
01:44:24,870 --> 01:44:29,110
I can just bring this through outside of this process by having a conversation.

1187
01:44:29,110 --> 01:44:33,570
The goal is to defer a, that's all, apologies.

1188
01:44:34,150 --> 01:44:38,210
And so not to make a decision about that today because we need some support around that

1189
01:44:38,210 --> 01:44:38,410
work.

1190
01:44:38,710 --> 01:44:42,310
And so this is the way I'm trying to structure that here based on the rules in front of

1191
01:44:42,310 --> 01:44:42,550
us.

1192
01:44:43,090 --> 01:44:44,850
But I don't have to do an amendment here.

1193
01:44:45,530 --> 01:44:47,730
I can simply bring the amendment to the project process.

1194
01:44:48,110 --> 01:44:52,230
I thought, scoping that here letting people know there will be an amendment coming to the

1195
01:44:52,230 --> 01:44:56,190
budget process would be something we'd want to support here and have that conversation

1196
01:44:56,190 --> 01:44:58,110
and here briefly because it seemed like that.

1197
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:08,440
But if people think no, I don't feel comfortable with us having the conversation. In advance, if you bring me an amendment, all this will throw it. Like, I don't want to just prolong this to be completely honest with you.

1198
01:45:12,210 --> 01:45:21,030
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sure Wilson. No, thank you. If the the move is to withdraw, that's great. Thank you.

1199
01:45:23,390 --> 01:45:28,470
Great. I'll just withdraw this and now I know what we're going to do anyways. So heads up. Hooray. Thank you.

1200
01:45:32,660 --> 01:45:37,160
So are we still going to be voting on the chair back and someone else is going to defer?

1201
01:45:37,160 --> 01:45:42,600
I look to the floor for a deferral of A. Oh, Councillor Fyne, thank you so much for that.

1202
01:45:44,540 --> 01:45:48,500
And deferred to a future meeting, I suppose, leaving it time indefinite for that reason.

1203
01:45:49,980 --> 01:45:50,920
Seconder in that?

1204
01:45:53,570 --> 01:45:54,150
The deferral?

1205
01:45:54,310 --> 01:45:55,050
For the deferral?

1206
01:45:55,630 --> 01:45:56,750
Vice Chair Andrews?

1207
01:45:57,110 --> 01:45:58,650
Discussion on the deferral of A.

1208
01:46:02,120 --> 01:46:04,320
There are no instructions except for a two-of-a-future

1209
01:46:04,320 --> 01:46:04,540
meeting.

1210
01:46:05,480 --> 01:46:08,120
Does somebody else want to jump in on the two-of-a-future meeting they could?

1211
01:46:09,540 --> 01:46:16,860
So I think this deferring A gives us a little bit more time to hash out in better detail.

1212
01:46:17,520 --> 01:46:22,540
There's a question of the mandate of this committee, and although the staff did excellent

1213
01:46:22,540 --> 01:46:29,680
report, and social jurisdictional scan, that hasn't really cut to the, what we're doing.

1214
01:46:29,680 --> 01:46:31,860
No, it may be a pain, but we can't talk about the deferral.

1215
01:46:32,100 --> 01:46:32,680
We're not allowed.

1216
01:46:35,920 --> 01:46:36,420
report.

1217
01:46:41,320 --> 01:46:46,180
All in favour of the deferral?

1218
01:46:46,180 --> 01:46:47,320
Any discussion on the instructions?

1219
01:46:48,620 --> 01:46:49,780
Any discussion on the instructions?

1220
01:46:52,280 --> 01:46:52,920
Not seeing any?

1221
01:46:53,280 --> 01:46:54,620
All in favour of the deferral?

1222
01:46:56,060 --> 01:46:56,900
Any one opposed?

1223
01:46:58,260 --> 01:46:59,140
Let's carry on.

1224
01:46:59,160 --> 01:46:59,900
Thank you so much everybody.

1225
01:47:00,100 --> 01:47:04,360
We got through that thorny bit of procedural stuff, and we're going to move on now.

1226
01:47:04,360 --> 01:47:09,140
Now to voting on the report as amended, we don't have to do that because there was

1227
01:47:09,140 --> 01:47:10,380
never an amendment, never mind.

1228
01:47:11,340 --> 01:47:16,540
So onto consent items, number nine, nine point one, the municipal social procurement

1229
01:47:16,540 --> 01:47:19,980
policy is an analysis of recommendations from the research shop at Bassory University.

1230
01:47:20,540 --> 01:47:22,480
Can I have a mover and seconder to put the report on the floor?

1231
01:47:23,300 --> 01:47:26,640
Move by, Vice Chair Andrews, seconded by Councillor Huyang.

1232
01:47:28,560 --> 01:47:30,020
Is there any discussion on the report?

1233
01:47:34,250 --> 01:47:35,050
Okay, Councillor Huyang.

1234
01:47:36,830 --> 01:47:42,710
Is there an opportunity to also perhaps not refer, but also share this information with

1235
01:47:42,710 --> 01:47:43,810
the Procurement Subcommittee?

1236
01:47:46,670 --> 01:47:51,470
I don't want to refer because I think that it ought to stay here, but I think that

1237
01:47:51,470 --> 01:47:56,570
there's an opportunity to at least share the findings with the Procurement Subcommittee

1238
01:47:56,570 --> 01:48:02,510
as per, and I don't know if that's by way of a communications item.

1239
01:48:03,850 --> 01:48:05,250
No wait, we don't have that any further.

1240
01:48:05,250 --> 01:48:10,110
I'm currently legislated for it at this time for how we might share this information with the procurement subcommittee.

1241
01:48:11,430 --> 01:48:18,070
The formal mechanism to share it would need to refer it to the procurement subcommittee.

1242
01:48:21,650 --> 01:48:24,230
Okay, that's fine. We've already seen it here. We prefer it there.

1243
01:48:24,590 --> 01:48:27,590
Oh, okay. Sure. It's still present on our agenda. We'll be for all time.

1244
01:48:29,410 --> 01:48:32,490
So, Councillor Hayden, do you want to move to refer to the procurement subcommittee?

1245
01:48:33,030 --> 01:48:36,390
I put the report on the floor, so I don't know if I can also refer it.

1246
01:48:36,730 --> 01:48:36,930
Sure.

1247
01:48:37,990 --> 01:48:38,550
You can.

1248
01:48:38,950 --> 01:48:39,070
Okay.

1249
01:48:39,590 --> 01:48:40,710
Do you want to second it, Councillor Towson?

1250
01:48:40,970 --> 01:48:41,150
Okay.

1251
01:48:41,290 --> 01:48:44,470
So we're going to move and second to refer this to procurement subcommittee.

1252
01:48:44,970 --> 01:48:48,710
The only thing we can talk about now is whether it gets referred to the procurement subcommittee

1253
01:48:48,710 --> 01:48:49,710
not on the referral itself.

1254
01:48:50,610 --> 01:48:55,290
Someone else would like it to go somewhere else or attach other instructions they can not

1255
01:48:55,290 --> 01:48:55,830
seeing any.

1256
01:48:56,150 --> 01:48:57,210
We're going to vote on the referral.

1257
01:48:58,830 --> 01:49:00,590
Councillor Towson was a second or pardon me.

1258
01:49:00,590 --> 01:49:01,130
Okay?

1259
01:49:05,220 --> 01:49:05,840
All those in favor?

1260
01:49:07,380 --> 01:49:08,360
I'm referring it.

1261
01:49:10,080 --> 01:49:11,920
I think that carries. Thank you very much.

1262
01:49:12,840 --> 01:49:15,340
I didn't see other speakers on this item for 9.1.

1263
01:49:18,550 --> 01:49:21,330
So we're going to move on receiving the report here also, I believe.

1264
01:49:22,170 --> 01:49:25,390
My apology is already being referred, so nothing else will happen.

1265
01:49:26,370 --> 01:49:27,170
This is fun.

1266
01:49:28,090 --> 01:49:30,310
Isn't it? I'll say it.

1267
01:49:30,610 --> 01:49:31,370
11 motions.

1268
01:49:32,210 --> 01:49:35,630
11.1 light rail transit early worst community employment benefits.

1269
01:49:35,630 --> 01:49:38,250
and this is a motion from Councilor Hawaiian Councilor

1270
01:49:38,250 --> 01:49:39,510
fine, please introduce your motion.

1271
01:49:39,990 --> 01:49:41,250
And let us know what your seconder will be.

1272
01:49:41,650 --> 01:49:41,830
Thank you.

1273
01:49:41,830 --> 01:49:42,930
Although it's never addressed.

1274
01:49:43,210 --> 01:49:44,650
Yeah, I know it's written right on here.

1275
01:49:45,810 --> 01:49:46,850
Thank you, Chair.

1276
01:49:47,250 --> 01:49:49,730
This is moved by myself, seconded by member,

1277
01:49:49,970 --> 01:49:51,130
Vice Chair Andrews.

1278
01:49:51,570 --> 01:49:54,450
This was a notice of motion from previous meeting.

1279
01:49:54,990 --> 01:49:58,690
We've had the benefit of having conversations

1280
01:49:59,110 --> 01:50:03,470
with the director of LRT, director shake.

1281
01:50:03,470 --> 01:50:10,210
We've been back and forth on this because of timing, but ultimately, we landed on this particular motion.

1282
01:50:10,430 --> 01:50:16,010
So, just reading through, light rail transit early works, community employment benefits,

1283
01:50:16,130 --> 01:50:20,650
whereas the construction of the light rail transit project and the delivery of regular operations and

1284
01:50:20,650 --> 01:50:24,530
service will create significant employment opportunities, whereas community benefits,

1285
01:50:24,730 --> 01:50:30,110
agreements, insure residents have equitable opportunities and economic inclusion through commitments to social

1286
01:50:30,110 --> 01:50:34,670
of procurement and social enterprise opportunities, whereas the pillar won employment opportunities

1287
01:50:34,670 --> 01:50:38,830
of Metrolinx community benefits and support program. And I

1288
01:50:41,200 --> 01:50:41,940
think we're going to have just

1289
01:50:41,940 --> 01:50:46,300
strike president and chief executive officer because I don't think he's there anymore.

1290
01:50:46,480 --> 01:50:49,380
The CEO is no longer the CEO of Metrolinx.

1291
01:50:50,460 --> 01:50:51,100
Okay.

1292
01:50:51,640 --> 01:50:57,220
Looks to promote apprenticeship training and workforce development opportunities for local communities

1293
01:50:57,220 --> 01:51:02,260
and Equity Seeking Groups, whereas Metrolinx Project Delivery on Finch West,

1294
01:51:02,620 --> 01:51:06,720
Eglinton Cross Town, and Hazel McCallion, LRT's of Gaines' Estangil experience in delivering

1295
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:10,540
community employment benefits and providing apprenticeship training and workforce development

1296
01:51:10,540 --> 01:51:14,440
opportunities for local communities and Equity Seeking Groups. And whereas the City of Hamilton

1297
01:51:14,440 --> 01:51:18,820
has very responsible for the delivery of several LRT early works, including Wentworth,

1298
01:51:19,740 --> 01:51:25,160
Sherman, Rosewood, Maine, and they're all paid by Metrolinx. Therefore be it resolved

1299
01:51:25,160 --> 01:51:39,480
that a staff be directed to work with Metrolinx to identify projects and attempt to deliver community employment benefits and social procurement ideals to the city-led procurement for any future LRT earlier extended in 2025 and beyond.

1300
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:42,640
Be city staff report back to the relevant committees.

1301
01:51:43,440 --> 01:51:53,720
The findings of these conversations with Metrolinx, including any challenges, barriers or successes, and see that the mayor and city clerk be authorized to direct to execute any required agreements

1302
01:51:53,720 --> 01:52:04,600
and or incillary documents with such terms of conditions in a form satisfactory to the city's list or in Metrolinx while meeting the city's procurement policy and authority to award the contracts. May I speak to this chair?

1303
01:52:07,280 --> 01:52:23,440
We've had conversations with director of LRT and I do see that acting director. Farhand is also online because I know director shake is on vacation this week, but we had a chance to chat about what is the opportunity and the expectation.

1304
01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:28,980
And even though mention of the early works has already gone forward and has already been

1305
01:52:28,980 --> 01:52:31,700
tender, there is still one more outstanding.

1306
01:52:32,080 --> 01:52:39,400
So this motion seeks to have to give authority to the LRT Office to have further and deeper

1307
01:52:39,400 --> 01:52:42,500
conversations with Metrolinx around community benefits.

1308
01:52:43,060 --> 01:52:48,620
And the intention is that we will help with setting the guidelines and the potential procurement

1309
01:52:48,620 --> 01:52:51,820
framework moving forward for this.

1310
01:52:51,820 --> 01:52:58,120
but because we can start to try and leverage the value of the timing, because there is only

1311
01:52:58,120 --> 01:53:04,200
one more that is still outstanding, so this is, again, seeking to give LRG office the authority

1312
01:53:04,200 --> 01:53:08,100
to actually further those conversations with Metrolinx moving forward.

1313
01:53:09,080 --> 01:53:09,600
Thanks.

1314
01:53:09,840 --> 01:53:13,140
Just before we proceed with any further discussion, should there be any?

1315
01:53:14,440 --> 01:53:19,880
On A, Roman numeral 2, and on B, Roman numeral 4, we're missing dates at the end of those

1316
01:53:19,880 --> 01:53:25,360
clauses. So, oh, I'm on the wrong thing. I'm on the wrong thing entirely. Never mind.

1317
01:53:26,420 --> 01:53:30,900
I've apparently been anticipating moving forward in the agenda and have skipped ahead.

1318
01:53:31,540 --> 01:53:35,140
So, I'll be quiet now and ask if there's anybody else who'd like to speak to Councillor

1319
01:53:35,140 --> 01:53:35,800
Feint's motion.

1320
01:53:38,740 --> 01:53:41,720
I'm not seeing anybody, so we'll go to the vote. I'll call the question. All those

1321
01:53:41,720 --> 01:53:42,180
in favor.

1322
01:53:45,140 --> 01:53:50,300
That's everyone. It carries. Now we're going to move on to notices of motion and

1323
01:53:53,370 --> 01:53:54,490
notices

1324
01:53:54,490 --> 01:53:58,430
This is a motion, and notice is a motion we have policy framework for voluntary donations

1325
01:53:58,430 --> 01:54:01,590
for community benefits, and I know that Councillor Towson is going to leave it as a notice.

1326
01:54:02,310 --> 01:54:06,250
And so, there's not much to say today, unless Councillor Towson is just shaking his head,

1327
01:54:06,390 --> 01:54:08,510
saying, nope, something to say today, it'll be kept as a notice.

1328
01:54:10,030 --> 01:54:14,710
And we'll move to 13, we should general information in other business, and this is going to be

1329
01:54:14,710 --> 01:54:16,050
regarding this to any business list.

1330
01:54:16,650 --> 01:54:19,350
And please have a move around the second or two, approve the amendments to the outstanding

1331
01:54:19,350 --> 01:54:21,650
business list, which is removing the one item we discussed today.

1332
01:54:22,610 --> 01:54:26,510
move by Councilor Fuyang, seconded by Member Nicholskaya.

1333
01:54:34,030 --> 01:54:36,970
Sorry, I'm just clarifying, a member was asking, but if we're whether or not we're voting

1334
01:54:36,970 --> 01:54:39,150
on the notices, a motion number not because they're staying as a notice.

1335
01:54:41,290 --> 01:54:43,570
And we're now on to general information on other business.

1336
01:54:43,670 --> 01:54:44,790
We do have a mover and a seconder.

1337
01:54:45,530 --> 01:54:47,770
Any discussion on the housing business list?

1338
01:54:47,910 --> 01:54:51,350
And it was Councillor Fuyang and Member Nicholskaya's reference?

1339
01:54:52,050 --> 01:54:55,430
Not seeing discussion, all is in favor of approving it to the business list amendments.

1340
01:54:57,730 --> 01:54:58,430
That's everyone.

1341
01:54:58,430 --> 01:55:06,330
That carries. I believe it or not. We've arrived at adjournment. May I have a mover and seconder to adjourn today's meeting?

1342
01:55:07,230 --> 01:55:17,630
Seeing Councillor Klein and seconded by member Nicol Scaya. All those in favour? That is all of us. See you again next year.