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We have a workshop meeting in the Jacksonville City Council order.

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We have a proposed agenda for tonight's meeting, and I would entertain a motion to adopt that agenda.

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I have a motion, second, any discussion? Here are none. All in favor, seated, fine by saying aye. All opposed. Next, we have the minutes from the February 22, 2022 regular meeting, and in seven consent items,

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a motion to include both.

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Second.

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Motion, I get a motion in a second, you know, here any discussion?

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All those in favor?

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Signify the saying aye.

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Aye.

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All opposed?

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Aye.

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Okay.

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So we have three workshop topics for tonight.

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The first one, the agenda, number eight on the proposed agenda for the adopted agenda for tonight.

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This is transit.

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So, Dr. Woodruff will be sent this item.

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Good evening.

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I'd like to ask if you don't mind.

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and Mr. Sosa is on his way from a meeting in Raleigh,

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and for transit we believe it's important

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for all seven of the elected officials to be here.

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Would you have any objections if we move to recycling?

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Council, you all right?

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I'll move in eight to the back of the...

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Yes, okay.

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We'll move it to be the last item, so take a moment

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just to recognize we have many of the people

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who currently are part of the operations

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of first transit who are with us tonight.

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We welcome them, glad to see them, sorry.

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So regarding recycling as we go into the FY23 budget, we're trying to nail down and

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have your concurrence on as many issues as we possibly can.

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So at the end of the presentation, I'm going to ask you to give us what I'm going to call

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a consensus vote on what you want to do relative to recycling, or if you decide you would like

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to postpone this to the next meeting, you certainly can do that.

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A little history. For more than a decade we had a contract with Sonoco and as you'll

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recall the city cost was zero. We simply picked it up. That was certainly an expense.

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But we were able to deliver it to the recycling center and at that time it was processed.

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Mayor, I'm going to do what my granddaughter does. I'm going to erase all of this. In courtesy

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to the folks who are here tonight with first transit, I think it would be more appropriate

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now that Mr. Sosa has arrived for us to to reverse what I ask you to do and to, so would

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that be acceptable to you?

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I'll be acceptable.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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With that, I'll ask the media folks and I'm going to ask the Anthony to come up.

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So please.

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Good evening, Mayor and Council.

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Thank you for the opportunity to be here again to talk about transit.

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Before we get into a follow up on some of the points that we talked about last time in February,

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I want to just go really quickly how we divvy up some of the responsibilities with the day-to-day operations of the system.

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As based upon some of the conversation that we had and some of the conversation and the most staff afterward,

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I want to make sure that's clear before we hopefully make some decisions this afternoon.

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Excuse me this evening.

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So with regard to the day-to-day responsibilities, the city is responsible for federal compliance.

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That's making sure that we follow all the rules to be eligible for the federal funds that operate the system.

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Whether that be procurement requirements or whether it be grant management, a number of different things.

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There's a whole lot of compliance that's involved.

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City also maintains all of our capital assets, whether that be buildings, bus shelters, or buses.

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We own all of our capital assets as well.

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So we do not lease or we do not contract for any of our capital assets.

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We conduct planning and we also, as you recall, took over the call center this fiscal year because we're getting ready to move into Jacksonville station.

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And we felt it was important that the face of that building be city employees.

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So we took that successfully, took that on this fiscal year.

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From a contractor perspective, and we have some of our friends from first transit here,

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they manage the day to day of the buses themselves.

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So making sure that they're on the road and they're on time.

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We also have another contractor, Osley United Transit, which provides our ADA pair of transit service.

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And they do that in a turnkey fashion.

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So they actually provide the vehicles, they provide the oversight, they provide maintenance

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for those vehicles, et cetera.

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And that's for the type of transit that's required door to door for folks with disabilities.

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So just to review where we left off last time, we talked about four different options for

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moving forward in 23 with transit operations.

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One was to negotiate with first transit and see if we could reduce the cost of the proposal that was submitted.

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Two was to consider options for operating with city personnel.

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Three we felt was an option that could be paired with either one or two,

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and it's very likely that we will do that before the budget is finally adopted.

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We're not going to talk about that tonight, but that is something that we're looking at very closely.

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And number four, while we didn't talk about it a whole lot last time, we really don't feel that this is a viable option.

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Mainly because last year, we transported almost 200,000 people.

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And so there's a lot of folks who use transit to be productive citizens in our community.

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But also the federal rules require, if we were to cut off transit service completely,

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then we would have to pay back the pro-rider share of the capital interest that they have in all of our assets.

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And, of course, that's a pretty sizable amount given that we've invested in Jacksonville station, the park and

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ride, the bus fleet, etc. It's not something that's common. Let's just say that.

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So, it's the follow-up items here. We're going to talk a little bit about insurance. There were some questions about what is covered,

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versus what it's not covered by the city's insurance.

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Mr. Carter is going to talk about collective bargaining.

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We learned a lot over the past few weeks about collective bargaining.

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We're also going to take a look at FTA and state of portionements, basically see how much money is coming in versus how much money we're spending.

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Every year and what the trend line has been like over the past several years.

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And then we're also going to present to you a wage analysis for the city operation option.

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And what that's going to show you is basically our recommendation if we were to take it in-house.

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And several scenarios that indicate the amount of tolerance between the cost that we feel that we can do it versus what the contractor's proposed price is.

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So from an insurance perspective, we talked about it last time it was unclear as to what was fully included in the city's insurance.

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We do ensure the vehicles in addition to having the contractor insure them as well as mainly as a double protection, but it also covers us for when city employees drive the vehicles to one way to another place is to have major service done.

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So the insurance, we did get clarification from the league that the 33,000 that you see

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there on the screen would cover bus liability as well as bus operations.

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Did I say that for a close enough?

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From a worker's compensation standpoint, we did include some of this in our last proposal

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but digging a little deeper into this with the league.

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We found that it was going to be a little bit more expensive.

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So, the proposal that we have has been increased by about $20,000.

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Again, one of the driving factors behind the cost increase, and rightfully so, based upon the information that first transit has given us, is the insurance.

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I can't recall the exact amount that it's increased, but it's increased substantially over the past three years to the point where the proposal that we have for next fiscal year has a cost of $129,000.

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dollars just for insurance alone. So the point there is, of course, that there's quite a gap

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between where we are from an insurance perspective versus where they have to be given their insurance

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carrier.

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All right. And this is where John takes over to talk about collective bargaining.

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Mayor and council, thank you. Good evening. One slide, but a pretty lengthy legal monologue.

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Let me begin with a disclaimer.

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The first thing I'd like to say is that nothing I'm here to say tonight has any implications

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to whether unions are good or whether unions are bad.

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That is not the discussion that we're going to have here.

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We're going to talk about what the first three bullets up there cover and that is what state

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law and what federal transit law say about unionization and about, again, the federal transit

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the law, what it says about unionization. The second thing we're going to talk about

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is equity among city employees, and I'll tell this together as I get down to that point.

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And then the last one is, why are we talking about all this? One of the reasons we're

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talking about all this is, we've only had one bidder, and you have bid this out twice this

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year and just one bidder. And we'll talk more about that in a moment. I like to build upon

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what we've done before with housing authorities and so forth, because we're going to talk

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about authorities in a moment, but the first statute you see up there is Northfront General

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Statute 95-98. Well, that's not in the city book. The city book is 168. We've talked

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about that before. That is the chapter that covers cities. 95-98 is there because it

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can't come out of the labor law. And this is the Northfront Labor Law as for a unionization

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that not only applies to city, municipal employees, but also applies to all employees, and I'm

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going to read pretty much from that statute, and I think you'll agree with me.

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This is pretty clear.

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Quote, any agreement or contract between the governing authority of any city, town, county,

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or other municipality are between any agency of the state of North Carolina and any labor union

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As a bargaining agent for any public employees that have set city, town, county, or other

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municipality or agency is hereby declared to be against the public policy of the state.

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These are important words illegal, unlawful, void, and no effect.

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City, state employees in the state of North Carolina are not allowed to unionize.

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That is against the law as I have read that to you, but now let's move from what state

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law says, what 49 in the USC stands for the United States Code, 53-33B.

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This little paragraph on a read from an article from the United States Department of Labor

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and it talks about this particular section of the U.S. Code and it says the following.

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When federal funds are used to acquire, improve or operate a mass transit city, that is

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public transportation, federal law requires arrangements to protect the interests of mass

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transit employees, and they cite this 49 U.S.C. Section 5333B. And this is part of the Urban

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Mass Transportation Act. This particular section specifies that these protective arrangements

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must provide for the preservation of rights and benefits of employees under existing collective bargaining agreements.

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The continuation of collective bargaining rights, the protection of individual employees against the worsening of their positions in relation to

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We're going to talk about that here in just a moment. Priority of re-employment and paid training programs, et cetera. That's what this particular section says. Now, the federal law has said, the Congress, when they passed this and other acts, never intended to establish a federal cause of action where the federal law has been

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Unionized employees can sue the state of North Carolina or the city in this regard.

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I said the proper jurisdiction to seek any kind of judicial relief is for them to go

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to the particular state courts.

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And the case, again, a Supreme Court case bore this out and said, quote, Congress made it

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absolutely clear that it did not intend to create a body of federal law applicable to labor

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relations between local government entities and transit workers.

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But it also says this and I'm reading here from again a document sponsored by the Federal

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Transit Administration and has this bottom paragraph.

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In other words, comma, the state is free to establish applicable labor laws and Section 5333b does

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not override that state's authority.

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Nonetheless, if a state or its political subdivisions desire those funds, the state must satisfy

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Section 5333B requirements. As indicated by the Court, a state is however free to prescribe

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whatever labor laws and policy it chooses and to forgo federal funds.

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State law, I think

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you would agree with me is a lot clearer than the federal law. But that last paragraph

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implies to me that if you want federal money, you've got to take certain actions to protect

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federal employees that are unionized. We've done a lot of research with Anthony, Richard

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and Ron and others on this particular topic and one of the persons that we've talked to

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And I talked to him three years ago

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when this contract came up, but his name is John Joy,

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and he's the Wilmington City Attorney.

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Mr. Joy was actually an assistant city attorney

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out of Charlotte before he became the city attorney

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in Wilmington.

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And as part of his responsibility,

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he oversaw the Charlotte transit system there.

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Transit systems, let's talk in particular about Charlotte.

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The Charlotte transit system began with the utility,

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the Duke Energy Company.

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Utility Company started the bus system.

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They started them because they wanted to get their employees from point A to point B,

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maybe from homes to work, et cetera.

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When the utility company in Charlotte was, excuse me, the transit system in Charlotte was

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taken over by the city, Duke Energy employees who were operating it were unionized.

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So, they had to figure out how to do that in light of the state law, which says you

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cannot reunionize the city employees.

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And they did that under what is a different here, that's 168, that's 575, 168 pertains

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to municipalities, to cities.

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But this is entitled Public Transportation Authorities, and I'm going to go over that in a moment, but

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And I think it's interesting to note, again, back to Mr. Joy, that in the city of Charlotte,

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when they brought it over, they established an authority.

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You're from me with authorities, and wases and authority, the TDA is an authority, housing

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authority.

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Remember, we went over that law, and all of the, it is a freestanding, if you will, and I

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use that term, it is legal entity, and in a moment I'm going to tell you they can be sued

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and sue, et cetera, and so forth.

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Now in Charlotte what happened is your bus system there is unionized and it's run by the authority.

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But you may be for me that Charlotte has something new in the last decade or two and that is light rail.

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Those employees are not part of that authority. They're city employees of the city of Charlotte.

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So again, and that's where we'll get to in a moment about equity.

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But you have city employees who are running the light rail system and you have unionized authority employees that are running the bus system in the city of Charlotte.

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city of Wilmington has a system that is city and county, New Hanover and Wilmington,

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and it is an authority and it is unionized.

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And Anthony's more familiar with that system and of course Mr. Joy talked about that.

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So Charlotte and other cities in the state, where unionization existed, were able to operate

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under this 168.575 at all. There's other sections here. It's called Article 25 of

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168 public transportation authorities. And it sets out how you set up a public

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transportation authority. And these folks are not city employees. They work for the

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authority. They're not covered by 95-98. That's how they're unionized. This

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particular section says that a municipality made by resolution or ordinance

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It's created a transportation authority and the authority is to be consistent no more

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or up to 11 members as determined by the governing body.

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The council would, of course, appoint those members and they would at that point in time

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receive the federal funds, the state funds and the city funds and they would operate the

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bus system theoretically.

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Now it says what are the powers of the authority?

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First one, to sue and be sued, they can employ persons, they can acquire and maintain lands, buildings and buses.

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They can enter into contracts, they can operate a public transportation system, et cetera.

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Again, just like the authority that we talked about with the housing authority, all these things are delineated here in the statute.

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It says here the establishment of, and this is from the statute, 168-583, the establishment

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and operation of a transportation authority is here and authorized or governmental functions

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and constituted public purpose.

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And the municipality is hereby authorized to appropriate funds to support the establishment

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and operation of the transit authority, from bed, bedding.

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I won't do, now move over to equity, and I have a little personal knowledge about equity

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and unions, and no unions, and that is, and I have my wife's permission to tell this.

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My wife was an employee for over 30 years of Caroline Telephone, at least that's what

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it was when she was hired.

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I think when she retired, it was Sprint or Embark, one of those names, it has changed names

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as we all know.

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She worked in the commercial division.

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She was a service rep, and she actually ran times the phone shop, or you actually went

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in and you picked out what color phone you wanted to go on your wall, or if you wanted

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the prints as phone or you want the box phone and things a lot of young folks today

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would not even understand what they're all about but it was there was a life at one time.

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The commercial department of the phone company at that time for those 30 plus years was

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not unionized but right down here where she worked on the Ridge Street right beside her

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and the folks that shared the same break room where her were plant workers who actually

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managed what is called the switching equipment, where phones, calls were switched, et cetera.

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They were unionized.

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The gentlemen and ladies of the world at that time who drove the trucks and came to your

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home to figure out what was going wrong and why you weren't getting the calls or why the

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party line didn't work or whatever it may be, but again they were unionized.

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So you had here a section of the company that was unionized and a section of the company

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that was not unionized.

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I can tell you, during this 30 years, it was at least one trip.

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We made the new to figure out the unions wanted the commercial section to unionize.

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They wanted to do that.

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Again, there was always a feeling that somebody's getting a better deal, union or not union,

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and again, it comes back to classes of employees.

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The union employees, one class, the non-union employees were another class, and there was always

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feelings that somebody wouldn't get in the same shape that the other fellow was getting

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as far as employment opportunities and benefits and so forth.

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Equity among city employees, when you have the system like you have in Charlotte, I would

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believe.

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Again, you've got employees that are running the light rails that are city employees.

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And then you've got employees that are running the buses that are authority employees, but

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they all feel like that they work for the city in one way or the other.

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But again, there's those kind of issues.

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So why bring this up at all?

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Well, I always like to feel like I'm hopefully trying to educate.

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But there's also, we bring it up not because first transit has any union and there's no

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plans, but certainly when envy operated, there were discussions about unionization.

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We bring it up to talk to you about because I think one of the considerations that you

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need to consider tonight, such what all of us have said so far, is that having gone out

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twice, there's been only one bidder.

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There's only one company that's interested in operating the city of Jacksonville transit

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system.

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Now Anthony's told you before he felt like I'm sure he's right, that's because this

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is really a small operation compared to many of these companies that run systems in

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other places.

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But again at this point in time one of the considerations is what about next time, three

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years from now, if there's no bidders, or if there's a bidder that is unionized, do you have

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section I read to you, you have to protect those folks, et cetera, you know, that's what

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has happened instead of entering into situation for folks for accused of union busting, they've

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actually set these authorities up in accordance with the state statute, so it's not to circumvent

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that. It's not any issue there. But again, you get into classes of employees. But this,

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again, is just a one of several issues I think that y'all need to think about as you move forward.

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and usually the time to think about and to make a decision is when you're not

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under the gun, you're not being forced to take it in, there's no bidders, etc.

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But again, I think you need to consider these points, and I'll be glad to try

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to answer any questions that you may have from this particular slide.

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Sorry, I was so long-winded.

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Thank you.

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I'll be around.

283
00:26:00,790 --> 00:26:01,390
Thank you, Mr. Carter.

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I think it's clear that we've been hanging out a lot together these days.

285
00:26:06,130 --> 00:26:09,490
No, Anthony, was that because this presentation took such a long time?

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Because it was such a concise and thorough.

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So Mr. Carter talked about one biter, and this is the first time that we've ever only had one biter.

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But what I did want to do is take you through kind of the history, progression here of what's happened over time when we put this project out or put the contract out for bit.

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So we started in no seven, the next contract was in 11, then 16, then 19, then 22.

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You can see MV ended up with the first three of those contracts.

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And then we were here just a few years ago talking about first transit and we're here again

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tonight talking about first transit.

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The cost of those contracts you can see on the right hand side and then on the far right,

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you can see what the percent changes between the first years of each of those contracts.

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00:27:03,730 --> 00:27:08,230
And 11, 16, and 19, we had two bidders.

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One of those bidders was always onslaught United Transit. And while they put together a good proposal,

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they just were never found to be the lowest cost most qualified bidder. And in 11 and 16,

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That was found to be in the transportation and then 19 it was found to be first transit and we've had a great experience with first transit

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The the challenge that we have is when we put this out

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Excuse me in 20 and 21 and 22

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We had

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At the pre-bid six or eight at the pre-bid

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But when we got the bids back well and received one

304
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So we put it back out on the street again

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hoping to untie some additional competition.

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We actually call folks too and encourage them to participate

307
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and still only receive one bid.

308
00:28:02,470 --> 00:28:08,330
So again, the concern here is not necessarily just the cost.

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The concern is also getting a fair price

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through competitive award.

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And if you look at the percent change there on the side,

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And I'm not knocking first transit by any stretch of the imagination because they have been great to work with, but I'm not sure that the fair pricing.

313
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I'm not sure that there's enough competition in what we're doing in order to get a fair price, and that's just my opinion.

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Why is this important?

315
00:28:41,150 --> 00:28:44,870
This is important because of the way that we fund operations.

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Okay, we normally talk about capital like Jacksonville Station and Park and Ride and all of that and all we have to do is contribute 10%.

317
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But with operations, we end up contributing 50% or excuse me, 50% ends up coming from the Federal Transit Administration.

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25 comes from the state and then 25 comes from the city.

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However, there is only a limited amount of state funds to support the operation that are

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allocated to us.

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So once we exceed that 25% allocation or the allocation from the state, then the operations

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ends up costing FTA 50% and the city 50%.

323
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And that's why you're seeing the even split in these previous slides that we've talked

324
00:29:33,290 --> 00:29:38,990
talked about before where the total is 350,000 and then the city share of that is half.

325
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Looking at the FTA apportionment, we also have a cap there.

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Now this does tend to move a lot more than the state money does.

327
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It's less volatile and it's continuously moved up.

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So you can see what the apportionment is there in 19323.

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You can also see in the middle.

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So what we budgeted every year to support transit and then what the balance ends up being of that annual appropriation once the budget is adopted. And from 2019 to 2023, you can see that we've seen a dwindling of that fund reserve or that carryover amount that's been a portion to us that we don't use every year. This is very important because the residual funds are what we use to accumulate over

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00:30:29,940 --> 00:30:37,920
a period of years to go out and pay for bus replacement okay so the closer that we get

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to the FTA apportionment every year the fewer funds that we hold and reserve to then go

333
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:50,680
back and replace vehicles the 23 amount that you're seeing there includes the proposal

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that we received from first transit and that's why it's at 1.349 and 2020 you see a little

335
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,960
bit of a spike there, too, that's because we ended up buying subus' so that's a little

336
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bit more than just the operating budget. Are there any questions about this?

337
00:31:12,310 --> 00:31:12,730
Okay, so

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00:31:12,730 --> 00:31:18,010
we did go back and work with first transit, the sharpened a pencil. They were willing, excuse

339
00:31:18,010 --> 00:31:26,410
me, to reduce the total first year cost by about $25,000 over the life of the contract it was

340
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It's going to end up adding to about $200,000, but that's over a period of five years.

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So with that revised proposal, the total increase from fiscal year 22 to 23 is about 346,000, and then the general fund is 173.

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You can see how that transiled over what we call the base period of the contract.

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If we were to sign it, they would assign it, then it's guaranteed to be in place for three years.

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So,

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are there any other questions about the revised proposal because we're going to shift

346
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gears just a little bit?

347
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So, here basically want to give you more information about the proposal that we have put together

348
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for in-house operation.

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And I know that we flashed some numbers on the screen last time but there were some questions

350
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about, you know, what does that actually include and how confident are we in those numbers?

351
00:32:23,340 --> 00:32:29,800
So, what we have here is what the city recommendation or the staff recommendation would be, is

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if we went in that direction.

353
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And that would be to match the base wage for

354
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the entry level driver that first transit has proposed at $16 an hour.

355
00:32:41,540 --> 00:32:43,520
We feel that that's market competitive.

356
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And it's within kind of the pay scale that we have for similar type of employees with the city.

357
00:32:50,180 --> 00:32:53,400
So the salary and benefits, it's a fully allocated cost or

358
00:32:53,400 --> 00:33:03,820
shown, then we also have direct expenses like uniforms and CDL, licensing and

359
00:33:03,820 --> 00:33:10,400
things of that nature that are relatively constant to a total $1.081 million.

360
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:18,360
Compared to the revised proposal, it would create a savings of $164,000 total.

361
00:33:22,490 --> 00:33:26,530
If we were to increase this to $18, and again, what we're trying to do here is

362
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to show a tolerance between what we're proposing and where we would actually exceed the cost of the proposed contract.

363
00:33:33,890 --> 00:33:42,830
We were to increase it to $18,000, the savings would be around $66,000, and again, this is for the base, great employee.

364
00:33:45,610 --> 00:33:55,790
And if we were to increase it to $20 per hour, you can see that the cost benefit flips upside down, and we end up having a net cost instead of a net savings.

365
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So the good thing there is is that we've done a lot of the diligence on the proposal.

366
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We feel very solid about it.

367
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And there is a significant amount of tolerance between where we are with the first transit

368
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:16,770
proposal versus where we feel like we would be within in-house operation.

369
00:34:19,870 --> 00:34:21,210
Sir, would you like to take it again?

370
00:34:27,410 --> 00:34:28,870
I'm going to go back a couple of slides.

371
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Oops.

372
00:34:30,590 --> 00:34:31,990
That obviously was the wrong direction.

373
00:34:33,410 --> 00:34:33,930
Would

374
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media please put back up the $16 an hour slide?

375
00:34:43,620 --> 00:34:48,300
My wife doesn't let me use the remote control with the house either, so just in front of

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the purposes.

377
00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:54,280
When Anthony talks about the $16 an hour, that is not a statement that says every employee

378
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,000
is going to get paid $16 an hour.

379
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:03,160
That is a scale where the lowest employee would be $16 an hour and the numbers that you see

380
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:09,240
not only include the wages, they include everything that we pay in benefits.

381
00:35:10,340 --> 00:35:16,340
So in addition to the $16 an hour, these employees would become part of the North Carolina retirement system.

382
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,940
That's figured in, they would be eligible for health insurance, that's figured in.

383
00:35:21,460 --> 00:35:30,060
So when you look at the number at $16 an hour of $164,000, that includes,

384
00:35:33,140 --> 00:35:33,140
or

385
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All of the employee benefits and expenses are included.

386
00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:39,540
And I want to stress again,

387
00:35:41,730 --> 00:35:46,250
if you take it to $18 an hour, it includes all of that.

388
00:35:46,990 --> 00:35:56,230
Mr. Thomas asked at the meeting I believe two meetings ago, at what point does the formula go in the wrong direction?

389
00:35:57,070 --> 00:36:04,530
Well, you can decide, does it go in the wrong direction at $16 an hour, $18 an hour, but we can all agree it goes in the wrong direction.

390
00:36:04,530 --> 00:36:11,670
direction at $20 an hour. But now remember that's not $20 an hour for every

391
00:36:11,670 --> 00:36:18,690
employee. That's the minimum that any bus driver would receive. The proposal

392
00:36:18,690 --> 00:36:25,090
that we have from the staff is $16 an hour because that is what the first

393
00:36:25,090 --> 00:36:31,210
transit proposal is also saying is that if we sign a contract with them they're

394
00:36:31,210 --> 00:36:36,690
going to move all of the drivers, and I think appropriately so, up to $16 an hour.

395
00:36:37,850 --> 00:36:44,110
Over the next several years, we're not sure of what they would increase, but what we

396
00:36:44,110 --> 00:36:47,750
are showing you is $16, $18, and $20.

397
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,500
Some of the things from a management standpoint

398
00:36:52,500 --> 00:37:01,440
that concerns me is, first of all, just one biter. This is not about as first transit done

399
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:08,580
a good job or a bad job. I can tell you, without being overly critical, that we were glad

400
00:37:08,580 --> 00:37:14,620
to move from MV. There were some issues, and we'll just leave it like that. First

401
00:37:14,620 --> 00:37:15,820
transit's done a good job.

402
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:23,960
The problem is, we are a small transit system. We have five

403
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:34,860
routes, five routes. We are not Charlotte. We are not Wilmington. We operate this system

404
00:37:34,860 --> 00:37:36,600
from only inside the city.

405
00:37:39,710 --> 00:37:43,190
The contractor currently makes all the financial decisions.

406
00:37:43,950 --> 00:37:46,830
That can be good, that can be bad.

407
00:37:47,730 --> 00:37:51,130
For example, the contractor can decide what they want to pay.

408
00:37:51,510 --> 00:37:54,050
They can also decide who they have insurance with.

409
00:37:54,850 --> 00:38:03,170
One of the financial decisions are partly yours, but once you sign a contract, that contract

410
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:05,350
is the financial decisions.

411
00:38:05,350 --> 00:38:10,370
One of the nice things about first transit, there's no operational change.

412
00:38:11,390 --> 00:38:15,890
Five rounds, all the current employees stay employees of first transit.

413
00:38:16,910 --> 00:38:22,750
There's also shared responsibility because as you've seen from an insurance standpoint

414
00:38:23,110 --> 00:38:30,270
whether you go at first transit or not, the city does in fact cover all the buses and all

415
00:38:30,270 --> 00:38:31,110
of the employees.

416
00:38:31,110 --> 00:38:37,350
place. So if there's an accident out there, you have the city insurance through the

417
00:38:37,350 --> 00:38:41,590
North Carolina League of Ministers, there are MS risk management system, and then you

418
00:38:41,590 --> 00:38:48,970
also have the insurance company for first transit. If unionized, and again not speaking

419
00:38:48,970 --> 00:38:57,260
for or against, they are currently not unionized, they do have the right to unionize because they're

420
00:38:57,260 --> 00:39:02,620
government workers. Remember what John said. If you're a government worker in

421
00:39:02,620 --> 00:39:09,660
North Carolina at the state or local level, you cannot unionize. However, the

422
00:39:09,660 --> 00:39:16,220
transit employees could unionize today if they wanted to. If they unionize and at a

423
00:39:16,220 --> 00:39:23,880
later date, the city for whatever reason takes over the transit, those employees

424
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:31,880
cannot become city employees. Why? Because the state law says what John said. What you'd have to do

425
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:39,280
is set up the authority. And again, they would not be city employees. The other thing is the price.

426
00:39:41,390 --> 00:39:48,210
From a city operational standpoint, if we took it over, there would be modest operational changes.

427
00:39:48,570 --> 00:39:54,330
Now, what does that mean? Still have five routes. We still pick up the same. We go to the base. We're

428
00:39:54,330 --> 00:40:02,530
on the same schedule, the main difference is of the bus says Jacksonville, the ladies

429
00:40:02,530 --> 00:40:06,010
and gentlemen who drive the buses would then be city employees.

430
00:40:07,130 --> 00:40:12,530
So the operational change would be from a supervisory standpoint that instead of being

431
00:40:12,530 --> 00:40:19,450
supervised by first transit, they would be supervised by your employees, primarily Anthony, Deanna,

432
00:40:19,450 --> 00:40:25,850
and then Roy, and then obviously the current supervisory staff that's in place with first transit.

433
00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:31,270
The city would make all the financial decisions. Now, why is that important?

434
00:40:32,890 --> 00:40:33,510
Well,

435
00:40:35,730 --> 00:40:39,510
you're the ones who are responsible for how the tax money is spent.

436
00:40:40,390 --> 00:40:48,010
And if the system begins to get more and more expensive, then you have the ability to say,

437
00:40:48,010 --> 00:40:50,330
Well, folks, we're not going to have five routes.

438
00:40:50,670 --> 00:40:51,970
We're going to only have four.

439
00:40:52,670 --> 00:40:55,650
Or instead of charging this, we're going to charge that.

440
00:40:55,810 --> 00:40:58,490
Which you have the right under either to decide on the rights.

441
00:40:59,390 --> 00:41:01,650
But the financial decisions would be totally yours.

442
00:41:02,850 --> 00:41:06,310
The other is the city does assume full responsibility,

443
00:41:06,610 --> 00:41:07,990
whereas right now it's shared.

444
00:41:09,310 --> 00:41:13,290
The other key point, not only is there currently no union,

445
00:41:13,650 --> 00:41:17,330
if you bring them in house, you would be guaranteed

446
00:41:17,330 --> 00:41:22,390
that they would never be unionized. And again, that's not a statement, pro-orcon, regarding

447
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:29,750
unionization. They would become city employees, and there would be a modest cost reduction.

448
00:41:30,370 --> 00:41:36,230
And I want to stress that. I don't believe that this is really about cost at this point.

449
00:41:40,070 --> 00:41:45,910
You saw a slide a while ago that had four options on it. We took the fourth one off because

450
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:51,710
it really isn't an option. You know, because we have built Jacksonville station and because we

451
00:41:51,710 --> 00:41:58,570
have put up all of the transit stops and we have buses, if you were to get out of the transit

452
00:41:58,570 --> 00:42:05,970
business, then you would have to pay back a very large check. I remember when we were talking about

453
00:42:05,970 --> 00:42:11,730
building Jacksonville station, the city attorney, that's the handsome and talented John Carter as in

454
00:42:12,290 --> 00:42:18,950
the gentleman here. He made the statement and you can read it in the minutes that if

455
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:27,250
you build Jacksonville station, you will forever be in the transit business. Why? Because once

456
00:42:27,250 --> 00:42:34,850
you've used that $9 million, the only way you get out of transit is to pay it back. Of course,

457
00:42:34,990 --> 00:42:39,690
you pay it back based upon depreciation. So five years from now to be cheaper to get out of

458
00:42:39,690 --> 00:42:43,150
than it would be today, 10 years from now cheaper than five years from now.

459
00:42:44,450 --> 00:42:49,330
So your options really are to negotiate further with first transit which we don't believe

460
00:42:49,330 --> 00:42:51,390
is really going to be successful.

461
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:58,610
They did come down $26,000 and that's $26,000 of what 1.3 million.

462
00:42:59,510 --> 00:43:01,550
So we appreciate their consideration.

463
00:43:02,770 --> 00:43:08,670
The other is to operate with city personnel and then the third is whichever you pick one

464
00:43:08,670 --> 00:43:15,390
or two, and that's to modify a service to reduce cost. I don't think now's the time

465
00:43:15,390 --> 00:43:21,370
to be modifying service. I'm going to give you a sidebar.

466
00:43:32,890 --> 00:43:34,390
I'm very fortunate to have

467
00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:38,690
an F-150 pickup truck that gets 22 miles a gallon.

468
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,660
A little over a year ago, let me start

469
00:43:44,660 --> 00:43:49,760
that differently, I'm going to erase that. My wife doesn't like for me to drive on the

470
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:56,840
bottom half of the tank. She likes me to drive on the top half. So about every

471
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,680
Saturday or Sunday I go fill the truck.

472
00:44:01,970 --> 00:44:04,970
You can relate to this. A year and a

473
00:44:04,970 --> 00:44:14,250
half ago to put in 13 gallons of gas cost 26 dollars. It's past Sunday I put in

474
00:44:14,250 --> 00:44:18,790
13 gallons and it cost me $49.86.

475
00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:22,690
Let me tell you what's happening in the city budget.

476
00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:30,770
As you know, by your policy for more than 10 years, we have budgeted unleaded gas at

477
00:44:30,770 --> 00:44:38,190
$3.15 a gallon across all of our departments, $3.15.

478
00:44:38,190 --> 00:44:48,250
sense. Yesterday, Ed ordered 12,000 gallons of unleaded. Mr. Thomas, you are

479
00:44:48,250 --> 00:44:52,950
quite aware that we don't pay taxes like you would pay at the pump. But would

480
00:44:52,950 --> 00:44:59,590
you like to guess what we had to pay instead of $3.15?

481
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,980
It's higher or lower? I was going to guess 315. You would be wrong.

482
00:45:08,060 --> 00:45:09,080
Dr. Washington?

483
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:28,580
Higher is correct. No, exactly. How much higher are you going to ask me? I'm going to keep going down the line. It's higher. So how much higher? That would be $3.25. You got the wrong button anywhere.

484
00:45:30,820 --> 00:45:31,740
Mr. Jackson,

485
00:45:34,540 --> 00:45:35,700
I had it in at 3.16.

486
00:45:37,220 --> 00:45:40,320
Mr. Sosa, you had a trip today, and I bet you had to fill out.

487
00:45:41,580 --> 00:45:42,100
What would you get?

488
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,480
About 3.30.

489
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:45,900
Or you have to do that.

490
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:47,640
3.70.

491
00:45:52,940 --> 00:45:53,820
You're very close.

492
00:45:54,420 --> 00:45:59,460
Yes, today, for the first time in over 10 years,

493
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:07,860
remember we don't pay taxes, $3.55,

494
00:46:10,460 --> 00:46:12,300
$3.55.

495
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,920
Why don't I bring that up in relation to transit?

496
00:46:20,470 --> 00:46:27,690
It's part of the operating cost, it isn't part of first transit, it doesn't relate to your

497
00:46:27,690 --> 00:46:31,430
decision tonight on whether you're going to put it in the city or whether you're not.

498
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:39,370
The point I'm making is there are costs that we can control, and there are costs that we can't control.

499
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:47,750
From a city budget standpoint, not a transit standpoint, this really concerns me as your manager,

500
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:58,870
that we're now paying $3.55 a gallon, and guess what, we're fortunate because as a non-city purchase,

501
00:46:58,870 --> 00:47:01,470
the price across the street this afternoon,

502
00:47:01,470 --> 00:47:02,310
Ron was what?

503
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,420
419, we don't know where that's going to go.

504
00:47:10,340 --> 00:47:12,260
Going back, though, to the operations,

505
00:47:14,020 --> 00:47:15,620
I'm going to give you some recommendations

506
00:47:15,620 --> 00:47:18,380
that I honestly did not believe I would give you.

507
00:47:20,020 --> 00:47:23,680
When we started this discussion a month or so ago,

508
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,900
I was 180 degrees away from this.

509
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:33,020
But as your manager, these are the recommendations I'm giving you.

510
00:47:34,620 --> 00:47:41,700
Because of the experience that we're having, I believe that it's in the city's long-term

511
00:47:41,700 --> 00:47:50,600
best interest to take this in-house, that we thank First Transit for their service, and that

512
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,100
that you authorize the city transportation HR department

513
00:47:54,500 --> 00:47:57,780
to immediately contact and recruit the people

514
00:47:57,780 --> 00:47:59,940
that are sitting in the back and their counterparts

515
00:48:00,740 --> 00:48:04,280
and that we move this operation in-house as soon as possible.

516
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:06,740
But certainly no later than July 1st

517
00:48:06,740 --> 00:48:07,800
because that's when you're contract.

518
00:48:09,060 --> 00:48:10,640
Let me talk about why.

519
00:48:11,860 --> 00:48:14,380
I go back to what John talked about, one bitter.

520
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,600
I go back to control of your finances.

521
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,340
is I go back to all employees or city employees.

522
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,320
And there's the fourth one I didn't put down.

523
00:48:26,860 --> 00:48:32,360
Only today can you be guaranteed that the employees of transit

524
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:33,620
are not unionized.

525
00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:37,980
That is not a statement that says pro or con about unions,

526
00:48:38,540 --> 00:48:43,720
but it is the reality that as long as you have this operated

527
00:48:43,720 --> 00:48:47,600
by private company, they have the right to unionize.

528
00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:52,720
Now, I will tell you, this is a tough recommendation.

529
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,760
I can tell you, I believe you're going to have a difficult time with

530
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,140
this decision as a council.

531
00:49:00,140 --> 00:49:03,400
This is probably other than some things like,

532
00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:06,120
the unimportant things like raising property taxes.

533
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:07,740
By the way, I suppose to be funny.

534
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,820
This is probably one of the toughest decisions that you're going

535
00:49:12,820 --> 00:49:21,220
have to make. If you're comfortable making that decision tonight, that's fine. We do need to have

536
00:49:21,220 --> 00:49:29,240
this decision made, if at all possible, on the 22nd of March, or at the very latest your first meeting

537
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:35,840
in April. We're certainly not going to push it, because this is a very,

538
00:49:39,370 --> 00:49:41,050
I'd use the word drastic.

539
00:49:41,050 --> 00:49:47,830
It's a very unusual step that we are being faced with as an organization.

540
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,380
Now Mr. Carter would you like to correct anything I've said?

541
00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:58,950
With that, what kind of discussion or questions can we answer for you?

542
00:49:59,990 --> 00:50:01,110
I'll slow up in further discussion.

543
00:50:02,410 --> 00:50:05,970
How many employees are we talking about hiring possibly?

544
00:50:07,550 --> 00:50:10,670
Anthony, would you step up, why don't you come up here and sit down a minute?

545
00:50:10,670 --> 00:50:11,530
Dr.

546
00:50:17,150 --> 00:50:34,130
Washington, we would look to hire a total of 22 employees, no ma'am, there would be a portion of them that are full time, a portion that are part time and a portion of them that are part time non-benefitted, and I had to break down if you'd like to have that.

547
00:50:34,810 --> 00:50:43,830
That's similar to the possibility, like around the holidays, when transit gets a little bit busy, you might have to hire seasonal workers.

548
00:50:44,610 --> 00:50:44,810
Or?

549
00:50:45,790 --> 00:50:48,750
Generally speaking, we would have these folks on board all the time.

550
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:59,830
But the benefit of the thousand hour a year, non-benefit employee is, of course, we don't have to pay benefits and it's a good opportunity for a second part time job.

551
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:04,560
Mr. Warden.

552
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:13,480
you had the on the 16 and the 18 you had savings. Was that savings? How much of that would

553
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:20,800
be split with FTA and how much with us? In other words, with FTA pickup, is there another

554
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:26,640
with the city would not accrue the full 126 or the or the 60 go back to the 16 dollars

555
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:39,060
an hour slide is that 164 is that a crew all to the city the 164 no sir right so it

556
00:51:39,060 --> 00:51:47,280
accrues 50% to the FDA and 50% to the city of Jackson okay and then the same it's okay it's the

557
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,680
same thing with the $18 an hour so

558
00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:58,640
we are seeing a net increase regardless of which option

559
00:52:07,380 --> 00:52:12,100
I'll just reiterate what I said in the past, the last time that we've had experience

560
00:52:12,100 --> 00:52:16,100
bringing things in house and the projections didn't meet expectations.

561
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:21,280
When we have city employees, I mean, understanding you can say we're starting at 16, but then

562
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:27,220
we do a wage adjustment for the city employees, these are city employees, so they'll recruit

563
00:52:27,220 --> 00:52:35,880
the same thing. It's definitely a double-edged sword, but here we're tough

564
00:52:38,670 --> 00:52:39,550
decision. I just

565
00:52:39,550 --> 00:52:40,810
buy that and it's hard to know.

566
00:52:40,810 --> 00:52:45,030
Even with paid increases will be covered halfway by the pad, right?

567
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:49,630
Yes, they're where to point where the 50-50 would be in place.

568
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:59,650
Really it in a financial decision per se now. It's really about the future. Mr. Thomas

569
00:52:59,650 --> 00:53:06,310
makes a good point. If you give a cost of living increase to your employees in the FY 23 budget,

570
00:53:07,230 --> 00:53:13,570
this number changes if they're city employees. This number does not change if they are non-city

571
00:53:13,570 --> 00:53:15,950
employees and are the contractors employees.

572
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,440
I would share one thing. I'll tell you about the

573
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:27,820
Charlotte and about Wilmington, and this is from Director from Anthony, but the following are urban

574
00:53:27,820 --> 00:53:30,120
transit systems that are in-house.

575
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:36,780
Salisbury, Fayetteville, Chapel Hill, and Greenville, North Carolina.

576
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,460
The Great Bus System, if you want, to be there.

577
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:44,340
There's four listed from Anthony, or in-house, with the particular cities.

578
00:53:50,180 --> 00:53:54,680
And not to belabor or advocate, but one of the things that Mr.

579
00:53:54,900 --> 00:54:01,820
Joy advised us is that we're in a very unique situation because we're not inheriting what's considered a legacy transit system.

580
00:54:01,820 --> 00:54:07,600
meeting we haven't had a transit system that was started by a utility company and then

581
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:13,980
inherited by the city so we're in a unique position to not have to work with labor unions

582
00:54:13,980 --> 00:54:15,260
as an urbanized system.

583
00:54:21,820 --> 00:54:28,920
Does anybody want to make a motion at this point, which option you want to follow or do you

584
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:29,160
want to?

585
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:34,080
that we accept the manager's recommendations as

586
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:41,060
said fourth in the presentation.

587
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:46,260
Is there a second,

588
00:54:53,550 --> 00:54:55,650
any further discussion, all that?

589
00:54:56,130 --> 00:54:57,950
Is that out of the $16 an hour as well?

590
00:54:58,530 --> 00:55:00,010
No, there's different price options.

591
00:55:01,070 --> 00:55:02,090
That's the right answer.

592
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:06,120
No, there's discussion.

593
00:55:10,420 --> 00:55:11,940
What is it looking like?

594
00:55:11,940 --> 00:55:15,660
Where the cuz we everything's concerning salary increases

595
00:55:15,660 --> 00:55:20,880
I mean I think about what McDonald's and what are fast food companies are doing now

596
00:55:21,580 --> 00:55:27,160
So I guess one concern is how much but we still sand at the cost will be split

597
00:55:28,060 --> 00:55:30,220
But how far can that number go?

598
00:55:30,980 --> 00:55:36,640
You only go up as you recall at $20. I think you're the

599
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:48,400
The tip point is somewhere around $19.50, but again, I think your decision really needs

600
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,140
to be long range for you.

601
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:59,000
And that's the issue of how much gamble do you want to take on when will you eliminate

602
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:06,440
having any bitters and when, how much gamble do you want to take regarding unionization?

603
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:14,980
Because I will tell you that from a financial standpoint, it's for all particle purposes the

604
00:56:14,980 --> 00:56:15,280
same.

605
00:56:15,540 --> 00:56:23,940
I remember Mr. Warden's comment, or his question, that $164,000 is split equal.

606
00:56:24,740 --> 00:56:27,740
And then the $66,000 is split equally.

607
00:56:28,580 --> 00:56:33,940
So I say, this is not an easy conversation.

608
00:56:33,940 --> 00:56:37,280
What is the fact that we'll be in charge of the program?

609
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,560
Is that the fact that we'll be in charge of the program?

610
00:56:40,700 --> 00:56:44,400
That's why I like about more really the financial decision, we'll be able to control the

611
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,320
service and how it operates and everything and we'll be able to dictate that as years go

612
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:48,640
on.

613
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:52,960
Instead of being in the hands of someone else, where in a couple of years we put out for a bit

614
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,900
again and if they're the only ones again, they're still in charge or they can change things

615
00:56:56,900 --> 00:56:57,220
on it.

616
00:56:57,300 --> 00:56:58,680
That's what I like about it personally.

617
00:56:58,900 --> 00:56:59,480
Very good point.

618
00:57:00,700 --> 00:57:04,240
We did the same little thing with our sanitation department, did we not?

619
00:57:05,060 --> 00:57:05,420
Commercial.

620
00:57:06,580 --> 00:57:06,620
Commercial.

621
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:07,580
Yes.

622
00:57:08,340 --> 00:57:09,860
And Mr. Thomas is certainly correct.

623
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:15,780
We did not do a good job in, because we had never been in it.

624
00:57:16,860 --> 00:57:25,020
I will tell you, it's a little different in that we have been very much immersed in the transit system.

625
00:57:25,020 --> 00:57:31,040
The only thing we're not running as Anthony showed you is the employee side everything else

626
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,620
But that doesn't mean these projections are perfect not by any means

627
00:57:39,230 --> 00:57:43,310
Do have additional control, but we do have additional liability

628
00:57:43,970 --> 00:57:49,430
There are there are employees there are employees. I mean transit

629
00:57:50,090 --> 00:57:55,930
Those transit those employ they're employed by someone else, so there's a but if we're offering a service

630
00:57:55,930 --> 00:57:59,090
We still have the liability, regardless of whether they're actually

631
00:57:59,090 --> 00:58:00,090
area employees or not.

632
00:58:00,290 --> 00:58:01,370
Is that not correct, Mr. Carter?

633
00:58:01,850 --> 00:58:01,950
Yes.

634
00:58:05,340 --> 00:58:06,660
I didn't plant that question.

635
00:58:07,580 --> 00:58:12,340
But that statute about authorities that I told you, I looked at it today,

636
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:14,640
and there is no case law in North Carolina.

637
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:16,820
That was originally passed in 1975.

638
00:58:17,700 --> 00:58:22,800
But there was an opinion from the Attorney General that basically said the following.

639
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,360
This while a public transportation authority created pursuant to this article

640
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:31,160
has rights granted to it as a public, a body corporate, and

641
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:36,660
politic, such as authority, such, and authority remains in the context of the article,

642
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:40,160
an agency of the municipality which created it, period.

643
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,700
Such an agency relationship between the authority and the creating

644
00:58:43,700 --> 00:58:47,640
municipality would subject to the municipality to liability,

645
00:58:47,820 --> 00:58:51,160
arising out of contracts and torts of the authority.

646
00:58:53,460 --> 00:59:03,180
One of the things, when we called the league on the buses, you were told last time buses were insured and what we believe, that was all insured.

647
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:09,960
But of course the league said, you know, how many of you could go out and get a car today and I don't want to assure that car but I don't want to assure the drivers.

648
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,460
Well, there's nobody going to give you insurance because somebody's going to be driving that car.

649
00:59:13,620 --> 00:59:16,780
Same thing with those buses, they said they had to have coverage there.

650
00:59:16,780 --> 00:59:19,520
So, that aspect is already built in.

651
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:23,580
That's been there, even though we didn't know that there had drivers, had duplicate coverage.

652
00:59:23,940 --> 00:59:26,980
That is, first transit coverage and liability coverage from us.

653
00:59:27,660 --> 00:59:30,600
The addition would be through the workers comp.

654
00:59:30,820 --> 00:59:34,520
That's one thing that we would be taking on you and the figures that Anthony gave you there.

655
00:59:35,140 --> 00:59:40,280
But, again, there is a possibility that based upon that opinion, and that goes back to 1984.

656
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:45,540
But, and again, there's been no case law in this area, but that there's liability even if there was an authority.

657
00:59:45,540 --> 00:59:52,120
But to Mr. Thomas' point, the contract certainly has provisions in it with First Transit.

658
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:55,520
They would say, you take on the liability and that has been the case.

659
00:59:55,900 --> 00:59:57,480
There have been bus accidents.

660
00:59:57,700 --> 00:59:59,280
There have been people that have been hurt on the buses.

661
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:25,240
First transit insurance is taken care of all that, and our folks, even though we had coverage and didn't even know about it, but they never had to step up and take care of it. So you're correct. I think my thought was more about employee liability, as far as, you know, our employees can sue us. Yes, sir. And their employees can't sue us, per se. They're independent contractors. Yes, sir. Are we assuming any employee liability other than

662
01:00:27,260 --> 01:00:30,340
with transportation system? I don't think so.

663
01:00:31,580 --> 01:00:32,100
employee?

664
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:33,000
No, sir.

665
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:37,820
When you take him in as your employees, you have the workman's comp issues.

666
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:40,940
You always have issues where employees sue us.

667
01:00:41,180 --> 01:00:42,500
We've been sued several times.

668
01:00:42,740 --> 01:00:44,400
And, you know, EEOC compliance, et cetera.

669
01:00:44,580 --> 01:00:46,100
Employee negligence or whatever.

670
01:00:47,060 --> 01:00:48,280
And so forth.

671
01:00:48,500 --> 01:00:50,880
In fact, and this came from Ms. Marshman, sorry.

672
01:00:51,220 --> 01:00:55,120
But in Charlotte right now, the employees of the bus system

673
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:59,860
are saying that the authority is not taking enough precautions to protect them.

674
01:00:59,860 --> 01:01:03,700
during the COVID crisis and we're picketing et cetera and so forth.

675
01:01:03,900 --> 01:01:07,420
So there's all kind of issues but there could be certain

676
01:01:07,420 --> 01:01:10,060
issues when you've got employees, there's no question about that.

677
01:01:10,580 --> 01:01:14,600
I remember in this correctly or not, we have in the discussion

678
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:19,020
on a previous meeting, we were talking about some of the

679
01:01:19,020 --> 01:01:23,060
management positions that first transit that we were covering

680
01:01:23,060 --> 01:01:29,160
that probably would be negotiable or less the word you use.

681
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:35,340
Sir Profilus, not necessarily Sir Profilus, they could be eliminated.

682
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:48,940
I made a statement that I felt that they had a top-heavy management and I'm not sure that's the reason why they cut $26,000 out of their $1.3 million proposal.

683
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:57,900
but- Is there any stipulation in the contract with First Transit that if we were to

684
01:01:57,900 --> 01:02:02,620
sever ties with them that we could not use their employees for a certain period of time?

685
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:10,180
Not if the- not if the expiration of the contract. Now if there's anything that happens prior

686
01:02:10,180 --> 01:02:14,200
to that if the council would have- then that would certainly be up to First Transit.

687
01:02:14,580 --> 01:02:18,700
But again, First Transit has been telling you at least, at least, that there lives in money

688
01:02:18,700 --> 01:02:23,760
each month, so there may be negotiations if you took it in house that could be quicker

689
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:30,000
than July 1, but presently, you have a contract with them as a city, and they are employees

690
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,820
are obligated to them through June 30th of this year.

691
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:34,780
And we could turn around and re-arm, right?

692
01:02:35,180 --> 01:02:38,360
If they want to come work for us and we're willing to take the conditions of employment,

693
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:38,780
yes, sir.

694
01:02:39,260 --> 01:02:44,460
And they, speaking to them, they are a very honorable company and they've been a good partner.

695
01:02:44,460 --> 01:02:50,340
So being very candid with them and saying, it's hard to say which direction this is going to go,

696
01:02:50,660 --> 01:02:53,560
they're willing to support us in either direction that we choose.

697
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:58,040
So they're going to fulfill their obligations if we decide to go in-house,

698
01:02:58,300 --> 01:03:01,840
and they will certainly continue to be good partners if we continue to do business.

699
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:05,540
Let me also make one other statement.

700
01:03:05,740 --> 01:03:09,800
This is, I know normally in this particular meeting,

701
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,500
the first of the month, we do not have public comment.

702
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:22,080
If you're going to have a meeting tonight, I know that there are drivers here by our

703
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:25,780
rules you can vote and they would have no voice.

704
01:03:26,380 --> 01:03:32,140
You may decide that you want to either allow them to at least give you a couple of minutes

705
01:03:32,140 --> 01:03:39,460
of their thoughts or allow them or push this off until the 22nd when they would have public

706
01:03:39,460 --> 01:03:44,440
comment. Again as a manager I'm not pressing you to make

707
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:45,420
decision tonight.

708
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,420
We do need a decision in the near future.

709
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:56,080
Everything by way you got a couple weeks I don't think so.

710
01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:01,700
I don't. Other than the fact that I'm going to get more grey hair

711
01:04:01,700 --> 01:04:04,100
than that Mr. Bitton I'm not sure you're going to gain anything.

712
01:04:04,300 --> 01:04:05,660
There's a motion of the second one.

713
01:04:10,170 --> 01:04:15,910
I see by bringing in that group from, you know, for first, you know, any of the employees

714
01:04:15,910 --> 01:04:20,650
for first transit, we won't miss a beat, kind of, in terms of moving forward, either.

715
01:04:20,870 --> 01:04:23,490
So that would be a great thing as well.

716
01:04:24,390 --> 01:04:30,250
One thing to point out as well, is that many of our employees, I say ours, but many of the

717
01:04:30,250 --> 01:04:34,950
transit drivers have been with us for a good long while, and they're heavily invested

718
01:04:34,950 --> 01:04:35,650
in the system.

719
01:04:35,650 --> 01:04:39,250
I felt like I had to say that because some of them are here tonight.

720
01:04:39,690 --> 01:04:46,770
Some of them were with N.V., in fact, and then went with first transit.

721
01:04:47,950 --> 01:04:50,530
Of course, they're eager to see what's going to happen.

722
01:04:50,930 --> 01:04:55,570
But the amount of time that you need to take is what it is.

723
01:04:55,890 --> 01:04:58,230
The team are looking at the management as well now.

724
01:04:58,770 --> 01:04:59,990
Well, before did you have that?

725
01:05:01,030 --> 01:05:03,430
Because we didn't actually bring anything in house.

726
01:05:03,430 --> 01:05:05,470
we just had to drivers before correct.

727
01:05:05,930 --> 01:05:07,310
I'm sorry, could you repeat that, sir?

728
01:05:07,450 --> 01:05:11,410
Before when we kept drivers but no management in place.

729
01:05:12,010 --> 01:05:14,190
When we switched from the other company.

730
01:05:14,850 --> 01:05:17,530
It was basically the same exact arrangement,

731
01:05:17,730 --> 01:05:18,790
just a different company.

732
01:05:19,170 --> 01:05:20,610
Okay. They provided the management,

733
01:05:20,790 --> 01:05:21,850
they provided the drivers.

734
01:05:22,610 --> 01:05:26,430
And in many cases, I don't recall how many didn't make

735
01:05:26,430 --> 01:05:28,670
the transition but a majority of them did.

736
01:05:32,850 --> 01:05:33,370
Call the vote.

737
01:05:33,850 --> 01:05:35,010
There's a favor of the motion.

738
01:05:35,010 --> 01:05:46,550
I raise your hands 4 or 3 or 4 or 2 motion carries stay in the house with that

739
01:05:48,930 --> 01:05:50,050
Presentation a

740
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:03,640
15 minute break and they'll come back for recycling. Yes, get a chance to stretch your legs a little bit

741
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:07,060
We'll stand adjourn for or recess for a few minutes

742
01:21:53,810 --> 01:21:59,690
Council, we're back in session and we're going to move on to the recycling. Dr. Woodruff will be presenting this item.

743
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:40,380
The difficult decision you just had. So let's go to that. You saw this before. For 10 years, we had a contract with Sonoco. There was no cost, no cost to the city, no cost to the customer. We know that in 2022, we signed a new contract. And that was based on $95 a ton going up each year by $5.

744
01:22:40,380 --> 01:22:46,040
dollars to $115 a ton and at that time we implemented fees to the customers.

745
01:22:46,940 --> 01:22:54,160
We assume based upon history 2,500 tons that's from residential, small business and commercial.

746
01:22:55,220 --> 01:23:05,020
So on FY22 at $95 a ton we had to budget $158,000 and remember that was not for a full year.

747
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:14,020
If you'll remember, the contract started November 1st, so $95 a ton for those months.

748
01:23:14,460 --> 01:23:20,160
So that meant July, August, September, October, and yes, I did count on my fingers in public.

749
01:23:20,860 --> 01:23:22,860
That meant it was an eight month contract.

750
01:23:23,820 --> 01:23:31,220
We're now into 12 month contracts coming up, and you can see what the fee will be, $105,

751
01:23:31,460 --> 01:23:33,340
$110,000, $115,000.

752
01:23:33,340 --> 01:23:51,280
When you look at the budget for FY26, which is the one that will begin July 1, 2025, you will need to have $287,500 of money in your budget to cover the tonnage.

753
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:58,800
I want to remind you in implementing the fee, the contract is a cost per ton.

754
01:23:59,620 --> 01:24:05,000
It also, when we talked to you last year at this time, we were looking at the FY22 budget,

755
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:11,940
we were saying the fees that we were looking at cover the tonnage, it covers the equipment

756
01:24:11,940 --> 01:24:20,720
and maintenance, it covers any reduction in subsidy, and it covers all of the increase through

757
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:28,540
to FY27. You may remember this. One of the options we reviewed with you was to go ahead

758
01:24:28,540 --> 01:24:39,380
and implement the fee in FY22 that would cover all of the cost increases up to $115 a ton

759
01:24:39,380 --> 01:24:47,960
and those other equipment costs. At that time one of the options was a $4 increase. This

760
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:49,660
This is what you actually adopted.

761
01:24:50,600 --> 01:25:00,440
You said we're going to adopt a contract going from $95 to $115, but you also said we're

762
01:25:00,440 --> 01:25:01,940
not going to move to $4.

763
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:12,060
What you adopted was $2 per month, residential, $2 per month, small business, and $0.30 a tip

764
01:25:12,060 --> 01:25:18,360
for commercial, and you said you will revisit these in the future, recognizing that these

765
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:24,520
fees did not cover all the cost, but also recognizing you did not want to impact your

766
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:33,280
customers that substantially. You can see the tonnage. Remember it was an eight-month contract.

767
01:25:33,660 --> 01:25:40,560
We're now going to a 12-month contract, but let me share with you a reminder of the assumption.

768
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:49,600
Because we had not been in this situation before, we assumed that the product would be worthless.

769
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:58,060
So what you budgeted was $158,000, assuming, again, nothing for the product.

770
01:26:00,450 --> 01:26:01,530
Why do we do that?

771
01:26:02,490 --> 01:26:09,410
We believe, and your philosophy has always been physical conservativity, highly pronounced

772
01:26:09,410 --> 01:26:09,830
that.

773
01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:11,650
be physically conservative.

774
01:26:12,590 --> 01:26:15,270
You knew there was no guarantee on the value of the product.

775
01:26:15,650 --> 01:26:18,410
You know that historically the product value has been low.

776
01:26:19,130 --> 01:26:23,070
And you also knew that because you subsidize sanitation,

777
01:26:24,090 --> 01:26:26,630
that if there is a savings, that savings goes where?

778
01:26:26,970 --> 01:26:29,810
Back into your savings account called the fund balance.

779
01:26:30,630 --> 01:26:34,550
I want to show you the commodity trends.

780
01:26:35,590 --> 01:26:41,650
The most important line to look at is the solid blue line that goes from left to right.

781
01:26:43,430 --> 01:26:49,010
That's basically zero, meaning that you got nothing for it.

782
01:26:49,790 --> 01:26:57,430
I want you to notice how many of the lines stay under that blue line consistently.

783
01:26:58,490 --> 01:27:01,190
I also want you to notice on the far right side,

784
01:27:01,190 --> 01:27:06,110
But there are only three lines that are above the break even.

785
01:27:06,830 --> 01:27:13,130
So when you made the decision as a policy that you would assume no money coming from

786
01:27:13,130 --> 01:27:16,730
the product, that was a very wise decision.

787
01:27:20,540 --> 01:27:22,080
These were the fees you approved.

788
01:27:24,510 --> 01:27:31,350
The budget was roughly $19,700 in $91 per month.

789
01:27:31,350 --> 01:27:41,570
So, in a three-month period, and that's now November, December, January, the first three

790
01:27:41,570 --> 01:27:44,210
months of the new, how have you married?

791
01:27:45,210 --> 01:27:52,950
You should have paid Sonoco $59,373, but keep reading.

792
01:27:52,950 --> 01:28:02,590
Amazingly enough, the products have completely offset your cost.

793
01:28:03,550 --> 01:28:14,270
In one month you had to pay Sonoco not $19,791, you paid them $39.39 and $39.

794
01:28:14,270 --> 01:28:24,350
And in one month, the product had enough value to fully offset the $19,000 a month, and

795
01:28:24,350 --> 01:28:29,770
the city actually got a check for $1,317.60.

796
01:28:31,430 --> 01:28:37,870
So in the first three months, which that's not a forecast of what's going to happen, but

797
01:28:37,870 --> 01:28:44,390
For the first three months, you've actually had a budgetary savings of over $58,000.

798
01:28:45,750 --> 01:28:47,710
That's not a guarantee about anything.

799
01:28:49,010 --> 01:28:52,470
Moving forward, we have no idea.

800
01:28:53,870 --> 01:28:59,450
The commodity market has been the best in the last three months, even with everything

801
01:28:59,450 --> 01:29:05,430
that's going on with the national and international economy, we're very pleased with these numbers.

802
01:29:05,430 --> 01:29:10,030
on the other hand, we can't guarantee that those numbers are to continue.

803
01:29:10,490 --> 01:29:16,090
So I think it's important for you to assume that every month you're going to be paying not getting.

804
01:29:18,330 --> 01:29:20,770
The product value has fully offset the cost.

805
01:29:21,650 --> 01:29:26,710
And again, for the next five months, we're assuming that you are going to be paying.

806
01:29:27,430 --> 01:29:30,730
With all of that said, let's get to the bottom line.

807
01:29:30,730 --> 01:29:31,510
The

808
01:29:34,330 --> 01:29:50,550
draft recycling budget for FY23 assumes, and let me go back one, for tonnage $100 a ton, $2,500 tons, it assumes $250,000.

809
01:29:51,690 --> 01:29:57,570
We know that equipment and maintenance, we will be buying trucks and maintaining them another $250.

810
01:29:57,570 --> 01:29:59,790
And for the personnel that

811
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:25,520
Just operate the recycling. We have three recycling routes. We have three people per route, or per team, so you have nine employees. So you're looking at $825,000 for just the recycling budget. Now, your current fees are actually producing $315,000.

812
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:31,960
Remember, this year, in FY20,

813
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:43,860
22, your cost potentially was 158,000, and in FY23 your cost potential is 250,000.

814
01:30:45,300 --> 01:30:49,280
I can see Mr. Thomas is already smiling because he knows the punch line here.

815
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:57,580
Bottom line is there's no need to increase your fees for recycling this year.

816
01:30:58,380 --> 01:31:08,440
There will come a point most likely in FY24, because remember your current fees are 315,000.

817
01:31:09,240 --> 01:31:14,640
Every year that amount you potentially have to pay is going to go up.

818
01:31:15,700 --> 01:31:17,900
Bottom line recommendations are this.

819
01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:20,520
Keep your residential, no charge.

820
01:31:21,260 --> 01:31:22,380
Keep your small business.

821
01:31:23,060 --> 01:31:25,440
I'm sorry, no charge, that was the wrong word.

822
01:31:25,440 --> 01:31:39,600
residential at $2 per month, no change, small business $2 a month, no change, commercial $0.30 a tip, no change, recycling bins go up $5 per month.

823
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:47,000
Now this says equals $5 per month, that should say that the increase goes up $5 a month.

824
01:31:48,440 --> 01:31:54,020
Our recycling containers that we issue, you know, we rent them.

825
01:31:55,140 --> 01:32:04,100
The cost of an 8 cubic yard recycling dumpster has gone from about $72 to over $130.

826
01:32:06,820 --> 01:32:12,180
Even at these rates that you will see in the rate schedule that you'll eventually have

827
01:32:12,180 --> 01:32:13,600
to adopt as part of the budget.

828
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:21,520
A $10 a month increase for every size we are still below what the other competitors have.

829
01:32:22,440 --> 01:32:30,340
And then, if you agree with these numbers, your general fund subsidy is going to be about

830
01:32:30,340 --> 01:32:31,680
$510,000.

831
01:32:32,520 --> 01:32:34,620
And that's about where it has been.

832
01:32:35,300 --> 01:32:41,900
So let me go back real quickly, I'm going to show you, again, current fees, general fund

833
01:32:41,900 --> 01:32:49,080
subsidy, total budget, and that's just for the recycling side of your sanitation, that's

834
01:32:49,080 --> 01:32:50,400
not your full sanitation budget.

835
01:32:51,100 --> 01:32:52,080
So here are my recommendations.

836
01:32:55,620 --> 01:33:00,540
At some point in the very near future, we'd like for you to say yes, you agree with those

837
01:33:00,540 --> 01:33:04,680
or no, you want to do something else, you do not have to make that decision tonight.

838
01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:07,200
Any questions on where you are?

839
01:33:08,740 --> 01:33:12,040
I hope you feel like you're in a good financial position on this one.

840
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:12,540
Good

841
01:33:16,250 --> 01:33:18,390
questions. Good news,

842
01:33:23,140 --> 01:33:27,500
okay. We've been through transit. Would you please now pull

843
01:33:27,500 --> 01:33:30,680
up the before and after school recreation fees?

844
01:33:39,470 --> 01:33:41,630
Susan and her staff, I think, do an outstanding

845
01:33:41,630 --> 01:33:47,890
job of providing assistance to parents. Susan, why don't you come on up to the microphone

846
01:33:47,890 --> 01:33:52,630
if you don't mind? The purpose of our before and after school program

847
01:33:52,630 --> 01:33:54,210
is very important.

848
01:33:55,250 --> 01:33:58,650
Safe environment, assist working parents with student care,

849
01:33:59,050 --> 01:34:01,450
offer education and recreation programs for students

850
01:34:01,450 --> 01:34:02,450
have a reasonable cost.

851
01:34:04,110 --> 01:34:05,370
Who are our clients?

852
01:34:06,130 --> 01:34:08,630
Well, the programs are offered to all city residents,

853
01:34:09,050 --> 01:34:10,970
and then after the city residents,

854
01:34:11,330 --> 01:34:12,410
to non-city residents.

855
01:34:13,070 --> 01:34:15,290
And I believe I didn't check this one with you.

856
01:34:15,310 --> 01:34:16,510
It is grades one through eight.

857
01:34:16,850 --> 01:34:18,070
No, it includes kindergarteners.

858
01:34:18,090 --> 01:34:19,050
It includes kindergarteners.

859
01:34:19,210 --> 01:34:19,370
Okay.

860
01:34:20,490 --> 01:34:27,510
The locations, it's the Ansel County schools that are inside the city, the commons gym,

861
01:34:28,270 --> 01:34:32,670
the youth center, and sometimes other city facilities based upon availability.

862
01:34:33,250 --> 01:34:36,890
Bottom line though is our programs are predominantly run out of schools.

863
01:34:37,570 --> 01:34:43,250
And one of the great things about that is, for example, the Carolina Forest Elementary School,

864
01:34:43,250 --> 01:34:51,130
It's the only before school program a parent gets the child there we take care of them for a period of time

865
01:34:51,130 --> 01:34:57,630
Then they go to school after school they stay right there and in the same location. We take care of the parents come and get them

866
01:34:58,970 --> 01:35:04,050
We also have new bridge middle school. We have seven elementary schools for after school

867
01:35:04,050 --> 01:35:09,210
one elementary school before school and then we have new bridge school and

868
01:35:09,210 --> 01:35:13,910
And currently what Susan and staff are doing are picking those folks up and transporting

869
01:35:13,910 --> 01:35:14,850
them to the commons.

870
01:35:15,810 --> 01:35:20,330
Pre-COVID, we had about 3,200 students a year.

871
01:35:21,290 --> 01:35:24,810
Now that's picking the number you want and multiply it by 300.

872
01:35:25,450 --> 01:35:29,230
So it's not that you have 3,250 people every day.

873
01:35:30,030 --> 01:35:34,970
You have roughly 250 or so and you have them day after day after day.

874
01:35:34,970 --> 01:35:41,270
that. During the COVID that dropped not significantly because many parents still worked.

875
01:35:42,070 --> 01:35:48,710
And our projection is now that COVID is beginning to be part of our society, not being

876
01:35:48,710 --> 01:35:53,590
solved, but part of our society, we think your yearly is going to be back over 3,000.

877
01:35:55,860 --> 01:36:02,900
The City Council policy. In FY17, the City Council, and I believe that would have meant

878
01:36:02,900 --> 01:36:06,360
that Mr. Jackson, you would not have been part of this policy.

879
01:36:07,080 --> 01:36:14,540
I believe you were elected in 18 and Mr. Social, obviously, you would not have been.

880
01:36:15,200 --> 01:36:19,580
But the council at that time, and remember policies are only good for the time that

881
01:36:19,580 --> 01:36:20,000
they're there.

882
01:36:20,260 --> 01:36:21,320
They're not lost.

883
01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:25,760
The programs are to be self-funded for all direct costs.

884
01:36:26,480 --> 01:36:31,380
Direct costs are shown in direct costs or things like buildings and utilities.

885
01:36:31,380 --> 01:36:37,980
fees. So the fees that we have traditionally had are designed to cover the direct cost

886
01:36:37,980 --> 01:36:50,370
only. Before school, the current city fee is $30 per month and $60 per month non-resident.

887
01:36:52,900 --> 01:37:04,100
I will tell you $30 a month. Okay. After school, $75 per month and $150 because your policy

888
01:37:04,100 --> 01:37:09,480
has been in the past city residents because the taxpayer pays for all of the gyms and

889
01:37:09,480 --> 01:37:12,880
other things, non-city residents, okay.

890
01:37:15,310 --> 01:37:16,210
What's the issue?

891
01:37:17,290 --> 01:37:21,990
The issue is part-time employment and hourly wages.

892
01:37:23,290 --> 01:37:28,050
We run the program with six program assistants and 10 rec aides.

893
01:37:29,030 --> 01:37:32,950
They're currently paid $12.50 and $10.

894
01:37:32,950 --> 01:37:38,750
dollars. And Susan, how many times in the last year have you had every one of those positions

895
01:37:38,750 --> 01:37:45,170
filled? Not many. That's including the challenge of getting people to the table to even

896
01:37:45,170 --> 01:37:50,590
apply. So we've had quite a bit of turnover. Very fortunate that in 2020 you authorized those

897
01:37:50,590 --> 01:37:55,250
folks to come on city, but filling them with still bit of challenges with everybody else

898
01:37:55,250 --> 01:38:02,170
in the market. And the turnover rate has been significant. You know, one of the important

899
01:38:02,170 --> 01:38:04,570
things in anything we do is consistency.

900
01:38:05,530 --> 01:38:10,750
John always tells me that the most important word in management is consistency.

901
01:38:11,450 --> 01:38:17,850
When you take your child to a before-after-school program and one day it's this person and the

902
01:38:17,850 --> 01:38:20,950
next day it's somebody else, that's just not a good idea.

903
01:38:22,190 --> 01:38:23,090
What's the solution?

904
01:38:23,930 --> 01:38:27,330
Well, first of all, there is no solution to the part-time employment.

905
01:38:27,330 --> 01:38:34,130
We can't make these people city employees eight hours a day because we don't need them eight hours a day

906
01:38:35,030 --> 01:38:43,290
But in order to cut down the turnover, I think we have to address the wage in addressing the wages

907
01:38:43,290 --> 01:38:48,190
Go back to your policy that the program is supposed to pay for itself

908
01:38:49,470 --> 01:38:55,750
In order to change the wages from 1250 to 1450 and from 10 to 13

909
01:38:55,750 --> 01:39:02,450
It means what? A higher expense, going to have higher revenue. Where does the revenue

910
01:39:02,450 --> 01:39:08,030
come from? The policy says it's supposed to come from the people who use the program,

911
01:39:08,230 --> 01:39:14,370
not from the taxpayer. So what we're recommending is that before

912
01:39:14,370 --> 01:39:22,870
school goes from $30 to $45 a month and non-city from 60 to 75. Now recognize that's not the

913
01:39:22,870 --> 01:39:32,070
normal doubling. The last time you had a fee increase was 2017. I can tell you in checking

914
01:39:32,070 --> 01:39:42,130
with the other programs, these fees are very reasonable programs. After school, we're

915
01:39:42,130 --> 01:39:50,210
recommending 75 go to 95 a month and 150 goes to 175 per month, and again the last fee

916
01:39:50,210 --> 01:40:00,950
was 2017. Assume it's one month, and again we're talking about the new fee. So this is after

917
01:40:00,950 --> 01:40:07,730
school. Remember the after school program, I'm sorry, the after school program was 75, it's going

918
01:40:07,730 --> 01:40:16,650
to 95 if you approve it. Assume one month is 20 days, two hours or 40, 20 times two hours is 40.

919
01:40:17,450 --> 01:40:26,610
If you divide $75 a month by 40 hours, currently, it's $1.87 an hour for having your child

920
01:40:26,610 --> 01:40:32,310
taken care of. At $95, it does go up 51 cents an hour.

921
01:40:34,820 --> 01:40:36,780
For non-city residents, you see

922
01:40:36,780 --> 01:40:37,920
it goes up also.

923
01:40:41,710 --> 01:40:47,390
So the recommendation is that before school, it goes from 30 to 45 for

924
01:40:47,390 --> 01:40:50,750
for in-city and up to 75 for non.

925
01:40:52,130 --> 01:40:56,070
The after-school program goes up to 95 and 175.

926
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:04,260
That you would implement these fees and wage adjustments with the start of fall school

927
01:41:04,570 --> 01:41:05,580
that would be August.

928
01:41:07,560 --> 01:41:14,920
So again, you do not have to address this this evening, but as we are getting ready, I spent

929
01:41:14,920 --> 01:41:21,080
spent the entire weekend studying all of the detailed budgets that Mr. Thomas enjoys

930
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:26,700
looking at. And today I spent the entire day meeting with departments and we'll do

931
01:41:26,700 --> 01:41:32,480
that again tomorrow and Thursday. We are very close to bringing to you the detailed

932
01:41:32,480 --> 01:41:43,860
budgets. What we're trying to do in these sessions is to cover some of the longer discussion

933
01:41:43,860 --> 01:41:50,240
items like this. So this is going to be the recommendation at some point that we're going

934
01:41:50,240 --> 01:41:54,800
to ask you to take. Now if tonight you feel comfortable saying we're not in favor

935
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:59,000
of any of this change, let's leave it like it is. Or if you're in favor of these changes,

936
01:41:59,280 --> 01:42:02,940
we'll go ahead and build them in the budget. But at some point we're going to ask you to

937
01:42:02,940 --> 01:42:08,480
make this decision on these fee changes. Any questions that you may have?

938
01:42:10,700 --> 01:42:18,300
So did you do calculations so that it was a, I mean, so this is what it equals, you said

939
01:42:18,300 --> 01:42:23,560
if we do this increase in wages, then this is what we need increase in revenue.

940
01:42:24,240 --> 01:42:24,720
That's correct.

941
01:42:25,060 --> 01:42:32,360
Did you do the numbers, any factoring of price demand that you would lose some, that you

942
01:42:32,360 --> 01:42:33,800
would take an account or did you go strictly?

943
01:42:34,460 --> 01:42:35,740
We have a waiting list.

944
01:42:36,000 --> 01:42:36,400
Oh, okay.

945
01:42:36,400 --> 01:42:37,500
But you will lose some.

946
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:43,680
I will also say to you though, if you move from these programs anywhere else, you're

947
01:42:43,680 --> 01:42:44,520
going to have sticker shock.

948
01:42:44,860 --> 01:42:44,980
Right.

949
01:42:45,460 --> 01:42:46,220
I understand that.

950
01:42:46,540 --> 01:42:50,080
There will be, when I say sticker shock, I'm not talking about sticker shock of staying

951
01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:50,580
with us.

952
01:42:51,040 --> 01:42:54,860
I'm talking about the sticker shock, you're going to have to pay some others.

953
01:42:55,440 --> 01:43:02,540
And fairness, the Boys and Girls Club does have lower fees in a modest way, but remember,

954
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:04,340
they have grants.

955
01:43:04,340 --> 01:43:10,380
let's talk about grants a second. We also have very fortunate over the years

956
01:43:10,380 --> 01:43:14,980
that we've had the River of Life Church. Mayor, I don't remember the actual

957
01:43:14,980 --> 01:43:18,780
number but you received a check on behalf of the council just a couple of

958
01:43:18,780 --> 01:43:26,560
months ago. That money is specifically set aside for grants to help people in the

959
01:43:26,560 --> 01:43:32,240
before and after school program or in other sports programs that Susan and you

960
01:43:32,240 --> 01:43:39,200
sponsor so yes it's going to be it's going to be an impact some people will

961
01:43:39,200 --> 01:43:44,840
feel the impact is just some people will not but this does cover the cost of

962
01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:52,300
the wage increases additional grants no sir not for this program is it

963
01:43:52,300 --> 01:43:56,500
possible that we could I don't think it is and I'll be quite frank with you there

964
01:43:56,500 --> 01:44:00,700
There are very few grants available for this type of a program.

965
01:44:01,300 --> 01:44:07,120
Now talk to your church, and a lot of the other churches in town and ask them to think

966
01:44:07,120 --> 01:44:10,860
about the fact that they get city services without paying property tax.

967
01:44:11,620 --> 01:44:16,860
And they would like to make a contribution to help offset this, that would be much appreciated.

968
01:44:17,660 --> 01:44:26,340
Yeah, because my concern with this is that it might not seem like a big increase for

969
01:44:26,340 --> 01:44:33,380
We're just the average person, but if you are a young mother, that's a widower and you

970
01:44:33,380 --> 01:44:37,560
got two or three kids in this program that lost her job doing COVID and trying to get

971
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:41,400
back on her feet, that could be a whole lot, because we don't have a graduated, you pay

972
01:44:41,400 --> 01:44:42,460
to pay for every child.

973
01:44:42,800 --> 01:44:42,980
Correct.

974
01:44:43,260 --> 01:44:45,380
You do have a couple of options for folks.

975
01:44:45,640 --> 01:44:50,600
We do actually offer financial assistance for city residents if they provide the need.

976
01:44:50,800 --> 01:44:53,260
We can look at that and offer that.

977
01:44:53,680 --> 01:44:55,660
We also offer a third child discount.

978
01:44:55,660 --> 01:44:59,880
So there's a couple of opportunities for folks to, if there are city residents.

979
01:45:00,920 --> 01:45:11,280
And we certainly will keep that in mind to make all of our patrons aware. Currently, we don't have a lot that participate in the afterschool program with financial aid, but we still certainly offer it.

980
01:45:11,280 --> 01:45:11,840
The

981
01:45:16,100 --> 01:45:17,380
decision in the future on this.

982
01:45:17,380 --> 01:45:22,620
So I assume this would be included in the proposed fee schedule when it comes time.

983
01:45:22,900 --> 01:45:24,080
Yes sir.

984
01:45:24,600 --> 01:45:27,040
I'll make a motion to approve it.

985
01:45:27,560 --> 01:45:29,260
I was going to make a motion to approve it.

986
01:45:29,320 --> 01:45:31,820
My son is in the program and he loves it.

987
01:45:31,980 --> 01:45:35,100
He loves Mr. Xavier and it's a fantastic him for the price.

988
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:37,260
We've looked at it before we put him in this.

989
01:45:37,360 --> 01:45:38,360
You can't touch this.

990
01:45:39,040 --> 01:45:40,540
I mean it's just and he loves it.

991
01:45:40,760 --> 01:45:42,340
He doesn't even like to get picked up by us.

992
01:45:42,460 --> 01:45:44,720
I'm going to go get him because he's having so much fun over there.

993
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:46,540
and he's made a lot of good friends.

994
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:48,340
I think it's a great system that you'll have.

995
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:51,140
I mean, I think the price is extremely fair

996
01:45:51,140 --> 01:45:53,260
and he enjoys it greatly.

997
01:45:53,460 --> 01:45:53,560
So.

998
01:45:53,640 --> 01:45:53,840
Thank you, sir.

999
01:45:54,940 --> 01:45:56,200
I'll blow the second on hand.

1000
01:45:56,820 --> 01:45:57,720
The motion is second.

1001
01:45:58,120 --> 01:45:59,280
Any of this further discussion?

1002
01:45:59,780 --> 01:46:01,420
I'm not ready to make a decision on this.

1003
01:46:03,460 --> 01:46:04,640
We have a motion in a second.

1004
01:46:04,760 --> 01:46:06,480
All those in favor signify by saying aye.

1005
01:46:06,840 --> 01:46:07,120
Aye.

1006
01:46:07,580 --> 01:46:08,020
All opposed.

1007
01:46:08,980 --> 01:46:09,680
Motion carries.

1008
01:46:13,710 --> 01:46:16,390
All right, Mr. Carter, I think that was it for the dying.

1009
01:46:16,670 --> 01:46:18,530
I think you've got some information to pass along

1010
01:46:18,530 --> 01:46:23,290
to the council regarding the election schedule?

1011
01:46:23,990 --> 01:46:24,970
Yes, I did.

1012
01:46:26,900 --> 01:46:32,300
You watched the news that the United States Supreme Court yesterday turned down the legislatures

1013
01:46:32,300 --> 01:46:41,000
appeal of the congressional, U.S. congressional districts that the judge and the panel of judges

1014
01:46:41,000 --> 01:46:44,800
imposed and that was accepted by the North Carolina Supreme Court.

1015
01:46:45,460 --> 01:46:48,660
So having said all that, we look like we're going to have an election.

1016
01:46:48,660 --> 01:46:54,580
And the filing period has ended and the election is set for May the 17th.

1017
01:46:54,680 --> 01:46:59,880
So staff has begun thinking about what about the swearing in.

1018
01:47:00,640 --> 01:47:05,900
The elections on the 17th as a Tuesday would not have a meeting that night, but it would

1019
01:47:05,900 --> 01:47:08,020
rather be on the Wednesday, May the 18th.

1020
01:47:08,480 --> 01:47:14,120
Hopefully by May the 18th, you will have adopted your budget or will adopt it on May the 18th.

1021
01:47:14,120 --> 01:47:14,940
Review the plans.

1022
01:47:14,940 --> 01:47:20,080
from the 17th until your next meeting June the 7th is actually three weeks.

1023
01:47:20,640 --> 01:47:27,440
The concept would be if you believe there's adequate time that on June the 7th

1024
01:47:27,440 --> 01:47:32,140
the council members who have been elected would be sworn in. That gives three weeks.

1025
01:47:32,780 --> 01:47:39,200
My question was going to be is that adequate time for those of you who've been through to get those folks invited

1026
01:47:39,200 --> 01:47:48,020
because the concept again would be that the June 7th would be a swearing in ceremony exclusively with a reception, no business and so forth.

1027
01:47:48,500 --> 01:47:56,580
Now, there will probably be a second meeting in June, because it's won the schedule, but normally in July, the first meeting has already been off the books.

1028
01:47:57,000 --> 01:48:01,020
And sometimes, y'all, at least for the last year or so, have done away with the second meeting in July.

1029
01:48:01,020 --> 01:48:08,000
So, again, it's important, I think, to consider getting the council back on June 20th,

1030
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:11,680
where the second meeting in June is, and so forth.

1031
01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:18,020
But, again, does that sound reasonable to have the swearing in to be on the 7th and...

1032
01:48:18,020 --> 01:48:20,460
What does state election law require?

1033
01:48:22,640 --> 01:48:29,160
That requirement, as far as a period of time, it could be on the second meeting in June

1034
01:48:29,160 --> 01:48:30,100
if you want to do that.

1035
01:48:30,100 --> 01:48:32,800
The 7th of June is a workshop.

1036
01:48:34,420 --> 01:48:37,400
The concept mayor would be to do away with the workshop.

1037
01:48:37,760 --> 01:48:39,480
You've already adopted your budget theoretically.

1038
01:48:39,580 --> 01:48:41,020
That's how you're hoping you'll have done.

1039
01:48:41,480 --> 01:48:46,480
And if that would be solely a swearing-in meeting and so forth.

1040
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:48,980
Because I know y'all like to visit with your folks who you call,

1041
01:48:49,240 --> 01:48:51,420
who supported you during the campaign and so forth.

1042
01:48:51,420 --> 01:48:52,240
And so forth.

1043
01:48:52,280 --> 01:48:55,740
And then we could have a workshop and whatever agenda items

1044
01:48:55,740 --> 01:48:58,100
that need to be addressed at the second meeting in June.

1045
01:48:58,520 --> 01:49:00,400
So everybody good with that?

1046
01:49:00,440 --> 01:49:01,140
I was mean.

1047
01:49:02,080 --> 01:49:07,680
I just want to give you a play and make sure you're comfortable with the time to, you know, if you said what?

1048
01:49:07,900 --> 01:49:10,500
Okay, but we'll continue to work in that direction.

1049
01:49:10,660 --> 01:49:14,080
Did we have a one city moment that I have one of the matter?

1050
01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:15,380
Amy, would you please come on?

1051
01:49:22,150 --> 01:49:23,350
Wherever you would like to stand.

1052
01:49:23,910 --> 01:49:24,130
Okay.

1053
01:49:25,790 --> 01:49:30,350
All right, so on Monday we had a award ceremony at the beginning of our officers meeting

1054
01:49:30,350 --> 01:49:34,670
and we recognized our firefighter the year, our officer of the year, and a

1055
01:49:34,670 --> 01:49:39,690
meritorious unit citation. Our firefighter the year was Logan Ruta. She's a

1056
01:49:39,690 --> 01:49:43,630
firefighter too with us at the fire department. She was recognized for her

1057
01:49:43,630 --> 01:49:48,230
dedication, her positive attitude, her hard work. She came in with no

1058
01:49:48,230 --> 01:49:52,890
certifications since then she's gotten her firefighter, she's got her EMT, she's

1059
01:49:52,890 --> 01:49:58,090
working on a technical rescue, and also her fire inspector. So she's definitely

1060
01:49:58,090 --> 01:50:00,150
I'm going to be one of our upcoming leaders in the department.

1061
01:50:01,570 --> 01:50:02,710
Next, we have Jimmy Davis.

1062
01:50:03,510 --> 01:50:06,190
He's a second time recipient of this award.

1063
01:50:06,690 --> 01:50:08,590
He has 25 years with the department.

1064
01:50:09,250 --> 01:50:11,870
He's very dedicated to the department,

1065
01:50:12,350 --> 01:50:14,170
to the personnel that serve under him.

1066
01:50:14,870 --> 01:50:17,850
He's a mentor, and he helps develop personnel

1067
01:50:18,390 --> 01:50:22,390
to enter into the engineer role, and also the tenant, and captain.

1068
01:50:23,270 --> 01:50:26,810
He's also an advocate in the community.

1069
01:50:26,810 --> 01:50:29,970
He helps with all the Christmas programs.

1070
01:50:30,390 --> 01:50:35,770
He helped kind of disperse the Christmas angels where a lot of the crews participated this

1071
01:50:35,770 --> 01:50:37,870
year to help out people in the community.

1072
01:50:39,110 --> 01:50:42,750
He was also recognized for on a particular call.

1073
01:50:43,070 --> 01:50:47,730
He walked a homeless person to McDonald's, bought them dinner, and then bought enough gift cards

1074
01:50:47,730 --> 01:50:51,030
to make sure that he would be able to eat for the rest of that week.

1075
01:50:51,750 --> 01:50:54,830
So he has a heart of gold and he's definitely deserving of this award.

1076
01:50:56,130 --> 01:51:01,990
And then last but not least, we have a large group here, and they received the

1077
01:51:01,990 --> 01:51:05,430
Maritories Unit citation for a call on West Francis Street in September.

1078
01:51:06,510 --> 01:51:11,510
The members were Battalion Chief Kevin Davis, Assistant Battalion Chief Sean

1079
01:51:11,510 --> 01:51:16,510
Kisner, Captain Brandy Bruns, Lieutenant Chris Gandy, Lieutenant Roger Parker,

1080
01:51:17,270 --> 01:51:21,970
Firefighter 2, Kevin Hallowell, Firefighter 2 Logan Ruta, and Firefighter 1 Benjamin

1081
01:51:21,970 --> 01:51:28,850
in Yeager. They responded to someone who was having difficulty breathing. They got there.

1082
01:51:29,130 --> 01:51:33,950
They knew right away that they were going to need more resources in order to be able to help

1083
01:51:33,950 --> 01:51:39,910
the patient and get him out of his dwelling. And we actually, you can't really see it on the

1084
01:51:39,910 --> 01:51:44,770
picture, but we had to cut the front of the house in order to extricate him from his residents.

1085
01:51:45,510 --> 01:51:50,310
So it was very involved incident and this group is definitely deserving of the award as well.

1086
01:51:52,170 --> 01:51:56,450
So we're proud of these people, we're proud of the crews, we're proud of everyone that works

1087
01:51:56,450 --> 01:51:59,550
at the fire department and we're happy to serve the citizens.

1088
01:52:25,810 --> 01:52:31,590
You know, the interesting thing about that is that's the second time we've had to cut that same

1089
01:52:31,590 --> 01:52:38,030
person out of the house, very large person. For more than 52 years, Gwen and I have experienced,

1090
01:52:38,030 --> 01:52:39,050
For

1091
01:52:50,920 --> 01:52:54,280
more than 52 years, Gwyneth and I have experienced life journeys together.

1092
01:52:55,520 --> 01:53:00,500
During that time, we have been blessed with three amazing and successful sons.

1093
01:53:01,500 --> 01:53:06,020
They're wonderful wives, six fabulous grandchildren.

1094
01:53:07,060 --> 01:53:10,380
We've lived in Florida and happened North Carolina.

1095
01:53:16,110 --> 01:53:21,370
We've been blessed to travel in Europe and Asia for the past 11 years.

1096
01:53:21,370 --> 01:53:25,770
First, it's been honor and privilege to be your manager.

1097
01:53:35,870 --> 01:53:36,410
Happy holidays.

1098
01:53:37,490 --> 01:53:41,330
Under your leadership, much has been accomplished, yet much is still to be done.

1099
01:53:42,050 --> 01:53:46,750
The city is fortunate that they have 560 plus dedicated and

1100
01:53:46,750 --> 01:53:47,850
professional staff.

1101
01:53:48,410 --> 01:53:53,810
They believe in ethics above all else, service to others before self, and

1102
01:53:53,810 --> 01:53:55,290
quality and all that they do.

1103
01:53:55,290 --> 01:54:00,030
and they're all committed to TNT today, not tomorrow.

1104
01:54:01,310 --> 01:54:02,170
With that said,

1105
01:54:13,730 --> 01:54:15,390
it is now time for Gwen and me

1106
01:54:15,390 --> 01:54:17,230
to continue our lives and spirits.

1107
01:54:20,100 --> 01:54:24,840
The last two with you will be May 23rd,

1108
01:54:25,060 --> 01:54:26,420
so we get the budget adopted.

1109
01:54:28,000 --> 01:54:30,160
In closing, I want to thank you for the fact

1110
01:54:30,160 --> 01:54:32,440
you're committed to the Councilmanager Forum Government.

1111
01:54:33,380 --> 01:54:35,380
You've always placed the needs of the many

1112
01:54:35,380 --> 01:54:37,300
over the few and the powerful.

1113
01:54:38,220 --> 01:54:41,360
I thank you for being people of honor and integrity.

1114
01:54:42,340 --> 01:54:44,500
May the wind always be at your back,

1115
01:54:46,720 --> 01:54:47,640
please come.

1116
01:55:11,280 --> 01:55:19,080
Unexpected that everybody to hear this tonight, but Dr. Wooder, we've got still got you for

1117
01:55:19,080 --> 01:55:24,620
a couple of months, okay, so we're glad of that as a council, I think I speak on behalf

1118
01:55:24,620 --> 01:55:30,560
the council that you have done a tremendous job as the manager of this city.

1119
01:55:32,760 --> 01:55:34,020
Right now I can't

1120
01:55:34,020 --> 01:55:39,680
even put into words you know my feelings as far as you know what I've seen happened under your

1121
01:55:39,680 --> 01:55:47,140
watch here. I know that you credit the council with a lot of the direction and guidance but without you

1122
01:55:47,140 --> 01:55:54,400
at the helm as the manager there's not much of this would ever got done and that we can be very

1123
01:55:54,400 --> 01:55:59,040
I'm very thankful to you as the manager, city manager of Jacksonville, North Carolina.

1124
01:56:03,080 --> 01:56:09,160
And like I said, we still got you for two months, so we still expect great things.

1125
01:56:12,600 --> 01:56:13,660
I'm sure you'll get us there.

1126
01:56:15,600 --> 01:56:30,140
Councilor, I'm going to ask the clerk to put a closed session on the agenda for the March 22nd meeting to discuss the path or process in which we're going to head now.

1127
01:56:30,140 --> 01:56:40,640
as far as making a name and an interim manager after Dr. Woodruff, please, the 22nd of May,

1128
01:56:41,300 --> 01:56:47,820
and also look at what process we'll use and determine who the next city manager of Jacksonville

1129
01:56:47,820 --> 01:56:54,340
will be. But until that time, Dr. Richard Woodruff is the city manager of the City of Jacksonville,

1130
01:56:54,340 --> 01:57:01,640
and I think we're still in good hands with good leadership and again thank you

1131
01:57:01,640 --> 01:57:05,620
and at some point time I will have the words that I need to say

1132
01:57:10,960 --> 01:57:12,660
so we will this

1133
01:57:12,660 --> 01:57:19,920
time take a motion to adjourn so move second all in favor all the post