Okay,
good evening. The time is
6 o'clock. It is August 27th and I'm
calling this meeting back to order.
Debbie, can you please call roll
» here?
» City administrator Jinsby or Matt Lawn,
you are on council. Tonight, the
workshop that we have tonight will just
kind of be a culmination of what we have
discussed over previous meetings and
during previous workshops,
excuse me, input that we've received
from the council through our goal
setting exercises.
Uh Matt Lawn is here to present it at
the end of this and meeting
will ask you to authorize publication.
In no way are we approving the budget.
All that we will do this
for September
this year because we have been able to
reduce our budgets
levy and maintain rate.
Only need a hearing.
I guess when was that decided?
>> Yes,
>> we haven't even gone through the budget.
So I I don't I'm asking the question of
>> we haven't approved what we're
>> we haven't gone through the budget to
determine whether that is what we're
doing or it's not what we're doing. We
haven't been presented with anything to
really go through and determine is
everything in the budget what we want or
are there changes that need to be made.
So basically we're just going in blind.
>> Tell me what I'm
answer.
So,
>> well, one thing we're missing is we
asked last meeting um what would happen
to our tax
>> income from sales tax if we stayed at
revenue neutral rate versus if we stayed
at a flat mill levy versus going to the
suggested mill levy that was adopted.
>> And I mean, I' I've looked into it and I
can't find anything
definitive on what
Okay.
» Correct.
>> It'll impact.
>> Yes.
>> Correct. So, we don't know what the loss
is going to be.
>> I don't I don't believe
» it's a very difficult
thing to measure because I don't have
access to what the county
So,
>> so, so this is all forecasting of what
we think sales tax always is. But
>> can you give us could you give us a
reasonable range of what kind of impact
that would be
>> but you're also taking into account the
fact your sales tax
use a
We use a
standard based on
what I use indexing
and you know market related revenue
using
so I don't anticipate that any
your mill.
It's not going to
less
grow.
So I guess my question is based on
Sedwick County um they have shown that
they expect their sales tax to go down
their sales tax revenue
>> their portion
>> and because our portion is based on
their portion would ours not go down in
the same respect
>> they're they're going to receive it less
portion because they're
>> correct and
>> that will not impact not impact Yes, it
will.
>> It does. According to the formula,
>> according to the formula that's used by
the state, 50% is still based on
population and the other 50% is based on
this county's property tax. Um,
>> but they're not amount of tax that they
are. So what they received they they
received full amount
the amount tax that they received
portion of what was the amount that they
were levying
>> it's the county sales tax not the
property tax
>> yes the county county 1% tax that tax is
shared between
>> correct
>> yes
>> that 1% portion is not changing
>> it's it's not but The the county has
also already stated that they were going
to lose at least $600,000 by only
capturing 4.2% and I I don't know what
they actually ended up passing yesterday
morning. It was pro they were trying to
go lower of their 7 something% total
assessed value. There is a penalty at
the state if the county reduces
>> they are projecting they're going to
lose over $600,000 worth of sales tax
next year for the county sales tax. my
understanding, I've been to a lot of the county budget stuff. Um, and if you
don't capture at least what the
percentage is that the county captured,
you too as a city will lose part of your
portion because you've gone lower than
they have. So to maintain your same
level, you have to capture at least the
same amount.
And if you go higher, you get a bigger
percentage.
So that's what I asked last meeting and
that's what I'm still asking is what
will our loss be by we're not capturing
4.2% or whatever they ended up choosing.
It would have been 4.2 would have been
the highest. Um if we're not capturing
that we will have loss to our county
sales tax income.
>> I I don't I still am going to say that I
don't think that
budget but I will uh I will
what we anticipate levying. I don't
think that anything is affect
I don't think you would I don't think
it's going to
I don't I don't honestly don't think
that wheat
we talked about impor
I'm not disagreeing with you that it's
going to have an impact. I just I still
don't think it's significant enough that
it's going to
>> okay
it's going to have such an impact that
it would affect the budget.
>> I just think it's important for council
to understand what what the loss is.
>> Is it is it something that is it are we talking about $50 here or we
talking about $250,000?
>> We don't
>> that's
>> but we're not talking about 50 either
possibly. We don't know what we're
talking about specifically.
>> This is something that hasn't been
discussed before.
>> Range and does it affect whether we
adopt it or not? Does it affect us?
>> And that's just was the question that we
asked last time because we wanted to be
able to be informed
to the best of our ability.
>> I think it would be fair.
Thank you.
» I think we need to acknowledge that
sales anything to do with sales tax is
forecasting. Yes, I think it will not
exact science.
>> Correct.
>> Like like the mil levy is or property
tax.
>> So if we can have a range of okay if
everything goes south and they don't
meet their range then it's this impact.
But
>> I guess I would go a step further and
say I don't know what that how that
would affect our decision either way.
>> I don't either. And that's why I'm
saying as far as um having a public
hearing notice for our budget being
published, that's a different and and I
know we need to do that. But because we
don't know the impact that we're talking
about, will that influence our the
potential for us to want to not stay at
the revenue neutral rate and maybe stay
at a flat mill rate? And if that is the
case, then we do need to move forward
tonight with actually publishing a
revenue neutral rate hearing. We can't
wait until the next meeting to publish a
revenue neutral rate hearing if we the
information isn't what we expect. So I'm
just saying are do we want to hedge our
bets and just to be on the safe side and
do the revenue neutral rate hearing as
well.
The reduction in mill is
We applied that
anticipated
county tax
but the difference would be just under
» that's what the full lo
>> I think
>> which is unlikely
>> I don't think go down that I think that
would
What's going to happen is county is
producing their amount, but I mean I I
don't know what their full
tax revenue is every year.
I'll have that.
But again, I think when I show you
tonight, the $23,000 is not going
to
>> But I think that's the I think that's
what we were looking for is okay. Worst
case, this goes south cost 24,000 for
me. That's not enough to offset going to
>> Okay, that's still
a revenue neutral
nonrevenue.
I can change I can change very quickly.
» So the 24K
that you just were referring to is that
the that's the reduction in the mill
rate or the the
>> the mill values
>> the it's the
4.14%
lean.
So you're saying that's how much is the
difference between staying flat or going
neutral. So
>> So the number he just gave you has
nothing to do with the county sales tax.
That's just so going revenue neutral.
>> If we're assuming that we're going to
lose whatever
county sales tax, we assume that we
would produce taxing.
also assuming that we reduce the bill
that would be the maximum potential for
county sales
because you're not losing you're not
losing population
» correct
» now like I said you would like to
You would like me to just
preload
that I can easily
produce a budget with both a revenue
rate and a regular budget
and it just be a matter
difference
back into budget.
quick.
It's just a different
» That's up to council.
>> Well, let's let's hear what we have to
say tonight and then we can
>> have more information to make our
decision.
>> Clearly our
You stated that the reserve funds are
healthy, but yet the last meeting we
were told that the utility funds are
low. So are you talking different
reserve funds and not the utility
reserve?
>> We've made some adjustments. Let's
presentation.
>> Okay. Do we have a print out of this
information?
Thank you.
>> Thank you.
Yeah.
>> And would you do a favor again and just
make sure that mic's really close to you
so we pick you up. Thank you.
Okay. So, the first page we have up here
is the budget certificate page. And this
is potentially going to reflect
everything tonight. uh includes the
budget authority for each of your uh
each of your operating funds. Um and
essentially what what is that's the page
you'll essentially sign after adoption
and that'll essentially say that those
are the limits to the amount of money
that you can spend in 2027 from those
funds.
Um
this page is reflects the uh you know
what the state tells us they're going to
or excuse me what we get allocated for a
motor vehicle tax and how that is split
up. So essentially in one of the input
pages to the state forms uh you enter
the amount that the state says they're
going to allocate and if you had other
funds that uh contained a portion of
your mill levy it would split out a
portion of that motor vehicle to those
other funds. This is all your only mill
fund is the general fund. It just puts
everything there. So, but that's just
the calculation page used for that. And
the only reason I have all this together
is because the county insists on every
page in the budget uh form get submitted
whether you guys it applies to you or
not. So, you know, I I did leave out the
library uh you know the library
page and things like that because you
guys don't have a library. But again,
they're when I submit it to that when
you submit it to them, all that needs to
be included. Um, this is the schedule of
transfers. These are all reflected in
the actual budget pages that we'll get
to. Uh, but they include all the
transfers between funds,
uh, budget for this year. Um
the
ones that I want you to take a look at
that we'll get into are mostly coming
out of the general fund because they
general fund does have a you know pretty
large um budget authority based on prior
year performance current year
performance and what we anticipate
levying uh we will be able to increase
some of the transfers um capital
improvement
is I'm increasing that to 200,000 uh
just because I know that we uh you know
you have a very good healthy uh balance
in your capital improvement fund. But um
again my and I've talked about it before
my philosophy is that if you've got um
you know
funds that are you don't plan to use in
the budget year, it's good to push them
into some sort of reserve or capital
fund so they can be used for projects in
the future. Same thought there was with
the highway fund is essentially pushing
uh you know money for future highway
projects or uh highway operations there.
And then you know that again if those
monies are not used they could always be
transferred from the highway fund using
their that fund's budget authority into
uh capital equipment or or equipment
reserve things like that.
>> I have a question.
>> Sure. So with the proposed capital
improvement plan that we have been
given, um
what is the projection of what the
yearly transfers need to be um to have a
healthy amount of money for some of
these projects that are on there? Uh
>> so that we aren't bonding everything.
>> The projects that are
projects have for next year
um which include
facility needs assessment, the strategic
plan,
and
they were supposed to come out of the
capital improvement fund. You've got uh
almost a million dollars in there right
now. So, there's a million dollars in
there right now that could be used to
pay for that, but I know that there may
be uh some costs for like the park
project and things like that that
haven't been spent yet. So, but I mean,
I know the parks project so far has been
about $400,000. I can get you a more
accurate number for that. Um, but yeah,
there's uh there's nothing in the
immediate budget for
um it would that would impact in 27 that
would uh not be uh funded by the capital
improvement fund balance. Now
>> I I guess I'm asking a broader question.
Thank you for that. But ask even a
broader question that we're looking at
five years. So, what is the forecast of
what where we're going to need to be to
keep healthy funds to be able to be
looking at all of these projects that
are listed on here?
>> Well, it and it it's even broader than
that because it's not just your capital
improvement fund that's going to be
paying for this. So it would yeah it
would require um
if I my recommendation is probably going
to be when we get to the end of probably
not this year but when we get to the end
of 2027
any additional fund balance that you
have or excuse me any additional budget
authority that you have uh that you
could be even uh transferring additional
funds into capital improvement I would
probably recommend making like a year
transfer of some of those funds into
your capital improvement fund. Um I
don't have a number for you right now on
what it would take to fund uh just with
you know with operation operating cash
for all of these uh over the next couple
years because again it looks like some
of the bigger projects here are going to
be
>> um you know
>> of a nature that it's probably not
feasible to use operating funds to pay
for them. And even stuff like this, you
know, if you're looking at a like a
Wampo funding type project,
>> that too uh is going to differ that
calculation. I would say though that
through
>> I would say that at least through 2029,
not including
probably
Yeah. anything utility related I I mean
if you're just relying on your utility
funds no you don't have cash on hand for
right
>> that specifically
>> um those are going to require and and
the benefit of some of those type things
you're eligible for the you know
>> especially water and sear eligible for
KDH uh you know lowcost loans for those
but yeah we can I mean if we were going
to build out a
true capital improvement fund
uh budget, we would have to make
assumptions about things like, you know,
grant funding and WMO funding and what
portion of um
any of any of the utility projects that
you would want to ex build out, what
portion of those would come from cash
and what portion would you
understandably be bonded?
I just feel like that's important for
the council to be looking at not just
next year, but that we're looking ahead
so that we have uh solid foundation in
making decisions of where we're at
financially, where we need to be. And
like even the um
>> the corridor improvements and the
sidewalk, I mean, part of that, that's
the 1% sales tax that we have.
>> And it's like, where are we with that?
Are we starting to pay that back? What's
our balance left? When's the forecast of
when that's going to be paid off? So,
those are all questions I think that are
important because that was the funding
that was used for phase one to begin
with. So, and I haven't seen anything I
don't know if anyone else has seen
anything that gives us an understanding
of where we're at with the debt that was
already occurred. Have we started
paying? How much is paid off? When are
we expected to pay it off with the 1%
sales tax that's coming in that's
supposed to pay for that?
So it's a just a I would like that
financial information so it gives us a
better understanding.
» Thank you.
>> And then here is a statement of
indebtedness. Um, this reflects all of
your current outstanding geo bonds in
the top section there. And then at the
bottom section, your uh uh temp notes
and the PBC bond that pays off actually
this year. Looks like the final payment
on that will be in November.
Um, and so what you're talking about,
uh, when you would be referring to, I'm
assuming that's the 24 temp note is what
was was it 24 temp note?
>> Yeah, that number looks right. 965,000.
>> Yeah, I I believe that's probably the
one we're referring to. The pay for this
improvements that we're going to be
using sales tax to prepaid.
>> That's current.
>> Current note.
>> Yes. So, we're not paying on that yet.
And so, we don't have a forecast of when
that's supposed to be paid off.
>> They just built it into our forecast.
» Yeah. Well, so the temp note is
the current temp note, the 2026 temp
note, I believe, is that that's being
used to fund projects that have already
been paid for. Is that what you're
saying?
No, I I just came on the inter
intersection.
>> The intersection project.
>> because that's supposed to be repaid by
the 1% sales tax.
>> So I'm asking when are we paying for it?
When's the forecast of it being paid
off? Because that impacts another
project that's on the CIP because that's
where the money comes from.
>> Look at that. We'll be
>> I mean, so what what I'll what I'll do
is I'll make a I'll I'll just do a
specific schedule that shows uh what
portion of all of these temp notes are
going for because I'm assuming that 25
is the development, right?
Turtle Turtle Creek it's called
>> is those
>> Yeah. So that so that so the 25 t that's
going to be repaid with special
assessment
>> is 26 Huffman and Casey's
>> okay
I guess another question I have just
because we've heard of another city that
got themselves into serious debt
trouble.
They went from 23 to $50 million in
debt. I just want to make sure that we
have plenty of debt information so that
this council doesn't end up in a similar
situation making those kinds of
decisions and not realizing how much
more in debt we're getting and what the
city has to pay back debtwise and what
has come through the city for projects
and there's someone else paying back.
>> Well, it it's not really part of the the
um
annual budget adoption. It's more it is
more in it is more in line with the uh
capital budgeting process. So, what I'll
do is, like I said, I'll find out which
one of these specifically is getting
repaid with sales tax funds. And
basically what we'll do is um show you
where uh sales tax money has been uh how it's been allocated so far because
basically it's going into
>> it should be acrewing at this point
because all of that money was supposed
to be for the intersection project.
>> Yes, that's what I mean. Where where
it's been acrewing. So, it's going into
the general fund. general funds
transferring it to your capital
improvement fund to your street fund and
then when we get uh when that goes into
permanent repayment will match make sure
that that portion only for that project
is specifically going into essentially
fund balance from those funds that'll be
making the debt payment. So, we can
transfer it into capital improvement.
You could pay for it out of uh you know
your street fund. You can pay for it out
of uh
um
I would I would probably recommend
either the street fund or the or the
bonded interest fund. And you can just
it can be as simple as transferring it
or if you um
>> it doesn't have its own fund.
>> No.
>> To keep it separated because that's it
was specifically to pay for that
project. I mean it's it's accounted for
separately.
>> Yeah, it's accounted for it own.
>> Yeah. So, shouldn't it have its own
fund?
>> It doesn't need its own fund. It it just
gets accounted for in its own it's its
own line item separately. So, we
>> I just want to accountability for the
people of Kai that they know that this
money has been protected and that it is
paying back the intersection.
>> You know, it's been accounted for
separately and we can we can track it
back as far as we need to go with it.
Okay, so this first page of the general
fund shows all of the general fund
revenue and this again assumes the you
won't see it included here because the
way the state form works they actually
this state form is used to generate what
the adorum tax will be. So we'll see it
at the bottom of the next page here. But
this is what our assumptions are for u
all of our revenue sources going forward
that everything above that sort of
personal property line is numbers that
are you know we get from the uh from the state or from the county
depending on who it is. And then
everything below that is your other
revenue sources including uh county and
city sales tax.
uh state liquor tax
assess uh state assess utilities is also
again portion of the uh
generated by the abalorum tax but it's
uh it's not calculated the way that that
regular business county gives us advice
on how to account for that and then the
bigger lines down at the bottom you'll
see is the interest earnings those are
considerably higher since we moved over
to the uh um inrified uh fund through uh
Enterprise Bank and again you just got
fairly high uh
you know balances there so it's
obviously generating more interest.
The next one here is
>> mean that interest earnings where it's
so it was 192 in 2005
>> in 2025 and we're looking at 180 this
year.
>> I I it's just one of those things I
don't I don't like over
>> Okay.
>> I don't like overbudgeting
>> coming year
>> revenue line items that I can't be
completely reliable on. So
>> Okay. Thank you. If if I had six months
of if I had six months of collections to
look at to tell me that it's probably
you're probably going to end uh 26 with
200,000. If I saw that again this time
next year, I would increase it. But I
just for you know
>> purposes uh being prudent, I didn't do
that.
>> And then here is the uh expenditure
side. Uh we have expenditures here by um
just the way they're categorized on the
sheet in the in the detail pages you
have. You'll see those all broken down
by individual department in the general
fund and then again by line item and by
category.
See how we get to that bottom number.
For the purposes of uh budgeting, we put
in that cash reserve line and uh so that
1.4 million65 that is essentially
carryover fund balance from the prior
year that we're budgeting as an
expenditure. So you have the budget
authority to spend all of it if you
wanted to, which of course I nobody's
going to recommend you do that. But also
that getting it getting your expenditure
amount up to that level is what
determines your what your mill levy will
be. So, for instance, if we were going
to adopt or if if if you wanted to have
a nonRNR uh if you wanted to have a
nonRNR uh
you wanted to have a hearing to exceed
the RNR, then we would what we would do
is we essentially would add back in the
amount of property tax that we think uh
that we that we estimate that the
keeping a flat levy would generate. We
add it into that $ 1.4 million number
and that's how we would get it get it up
to
That would that's that's the specific
number that we will change to adjust the
middle
and the very bottom bottom right corner
there was 1.311
uh million that's that is the uh amount
of advalorum tax that the formulas in
the state forms generate so it's equal
to what you had last year
>> question
>> sure
>> in the cash reserve 2027 column the
1.465.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
what is the value
left from the cash reserve and moving
that over to balance
» like so you're you're you're making a
transfer.
>> Nope.
>> That like I said just a filler. That is
a what what we're doing with that number
is essentially we are budgeting as an
expenditure your carryover fund balance and any
difference between what you what we
budget to spend and what we budget to uh
receive. So, you know, the state defines
a balanced budget as carryover fund
balance plus revenue minus expenditure.
And whatever's left over, if as long as
it's zero, you're technically a balanced
budget, even though you're spending down
everything you had from the year before.
For the purposes of establishing the
mill levy, we budget that carryover fund
balance as an expenditure. And that gets
your mill levy to what it would take to
complete essentially
uh generate what to essentially generate
that tax then spend down everything that
we show we're spending down and get you
to zero. Now, of course, we're not
actually going to spend down to zero.
We're going to uh essentially
that we're not no there's no line item
in your budget that's going to actually
get charged to that 1.4 million. That's
going to stay there. And again, that's
what I'm talking about when we're
talking about u uh you know, at the end
of at the end of the budget year looking
at where else can we transfer this money
for things like capital projects that
you talked about. Um so at at that point
we would look, okay, what's our fund
balance at now? We we you know we look
at it during the the budget year as
well. Um, and we'd say, you know, what
can we additionally transfer out to
capital to any of our other necessary
funds where we would want to uh, you
know, essentially pay for projects that
we don't have to bond out.
So that's that's the purpose of that
line.
>> So it's not it's not budget authority.
>> Okay.
>> It so it's um it's expected to be there
at the end of the year.
>> Tech technically it is legally budget
authority, but we're not actually going
to spend it. It would be you it would it
would if you spent that you would spend
your fund balance down to zero and risk
at that point you would you would be
risking a budget amendment or a budget
violation.
>> So in 2026 we're expecting to actually
spend 200,000
of our cash reserves.
>> That no again that's it's the same thing
there. We're we're putting it there.
putting putting it there to essentially
uh carry forward 200,000 additional more
in carryover fund balance into the
following year.
It's it's essentially it's like a uh I
again it it's only for the purposes of
the state budget form that we're doing
this on
>> but we are giving budget authority to
spend it and not hang on to it. We're
well we're applying it in this form to
uh your expenditures. It's it's not
going to your budget authority is
established for 26 last year with the
budget. So this would just mean that
instead of a uh you know
because because you see there if you
look at if you look in the middle column
the bottom three lines you've got total
expenditures uncovered cash balance
December 31 and then 25 22x 27 budget
authority. So the middle one that's 26
budget authority. We're essentially
using that to almost bring your uh uh
amount of your uh expenditures almost up
to what the budget authority is. And
we're just putting it in there as an
expenditure to uh essentially not spend
it and then carry it forward in fund
balance.
I can I can take that out if you want.
is just going to push it into the uh
beginning fund balance line for 2027 and
push everything up by $200,000.
Um, but you know, this gives you, you
know, I mean, so the thing that you're
always worried about when you're getting
into fourth quarter is, you know, do we
have budget authority to cover
everything we need to pay for? And you
have ample budget authority in general
fund to do so. But the kind of the
purpose of that cash reserve line is if
you are not going to be spending all of
your budget authority,
you know, you can either show it as a
budget adjustment for the following year
or not budget adjustment, you can show
it as a carryover fund balance for the
following year in again this is
specifically for the uh budgeting
process or you can put it in as an
expenditure like that and then it'll
just you know your your actual year end
will look better than the budget year
end.
that will actually change.
Are there any more questions?
And then this uh the next page is the you know how the uh funds are broken
down into uh departments or and actually
in this case it's not actually
departments it's sort of like cost
centers that we group together but again
if you want the detail it's in those
other pages that Matt printed out for
you.
uh bond and interest fund uh set up
similarly. If you see here that cash
reserve uh line is 2.3 million. And
again, the only reason the only way this
even makes this even works out is to
because we have built in a $ 1.9 million
bond proceeds line item in your uh on
the revenue side. And so what that is
essentially is what would the cost be to
retire your temp notes if you had to do
it in one year. And so you I'm giving
you a revenue sides calculation for what
those would cost. And then on the
reverse side, I'm giving you the budget
of the work to do it if you had to
retire those dividends, the full amount
of them.
This way you're not running into timing
issues when you do go to retire those
uh street fund here. Um
big thing here you look at is they've
got a fairly good carryover as well in
that uh cash reserve line about $450,000
and again you know it's one of the
reasons I wanted to I want to start
increasing the transfer into here is so
uh you know whether you decide to pay
for those
>> using those using those uh sales tax
dollars whether you decide to pay for um
uh you know repayment of that street
project out of here or uh out of uh you
know capital improvement or excuse me
out bonded interest. This is probably
this fund probably makes the most sense
to make those transfers from. So when we
do get what the debt service on that's
going to be and we start paying it back,
we'll make sure that we're matching
whatever is flowing into here for that
payment to what the debt payment will
be.
>> So since the so for instance the 2026 or
2024 temp note will have to be it
expires this year. So we'll have to
change it into a permanent bond.
Yes.
>> So that 42,000 is going to come out of C
the this fund
that's basically the sales tax and the
965,000
is going to come out of the sales
proceeds from when we sell the permanent
bond.
>> Yeah. So it what that which which page
are you on? I'm sorry. Well, I'm
comparing what you have on page nine to
what you have on page four.
>> What What are those p I don't have page
numbers on my slides. I'm sorry.
>> Um the one is the state statement of
indebtedness and then this current
slide. So on the statement of
indebtedness,
so the Kichi Road in Oliver, well the
temp like a temp note 2024, the Kichi
Road and Oliver is basically what that
is. Since it expires this year, that
42,219,
we will definitely be paying the 965 is
actually coming out of will be paid by
the sale of that bond from a temporary
note to a to a full bond.
>> So the
>> is that how you're looking at that?
>> No, the It'll be it'll 28 is when you'll
start repaying that temp note. Will you
be you'll start paying the permanent
bond that that temp note will retire.
>> Yes.
>> But that that that GO bond will retire
that temp note and you'll be repaying
that uh bond in 20 beginning in 2028.
>> And at that point,
>> huh?
>> But we have to pay the interest.
» So I'm there's interest listed.
>> There's the So the 42,000 that's what
I'm talking about. So the 42,219 is
really what will come out of our is
budgeted for general fund to pay for
this year.
>> I believe it's
>> I believe I believe it's included in the
temp note the it's included in the temp
note finance. So it'll get paid out of
the whichever fund the project is
located in.
>> Okay.
the the again I I can't tell you what
that specific note was for so I can't
tell you exactly how it's going to be
repaid but it the the typically the uh
you know they capitalize the interest in
temp note so it's you borrow the amount
that you're going to have to pay in temp
note interest and then when you retire
that you know they'll do a calculation
based on how much of the notes that you
actually use and you know which how much
of it can be paid paid back and so then
they'll determine what your permanent
bond is going to be and then the
interest on that will be paid as part of
the regular debt service and that is it.
So whichever one of these is referring
to the street project. So when they when
they issue that that permanent bond um
that is the comp the both the interest
payment and the principal payment of
that is going to be paid for with that
sales tax money and that if that is
included in that 24 note then that will
begin repayment in 2028.
So that'll and you know that's just part
of the timing of that project is make
sure that we have uh that cash reserve
and as you can see you do have
sufficient cash on hand especially in
general fund and in your bond and
interest fund to make
uh you know those payments. It's just
that we need to make sure that what
whatever specific uh fund you're going
to be using for those payments, we have
a we tie the uh you know sales tax revenue to
that specific payment.
But again, that that shouldn't be that
shouldn't impact until 2020 9 because
the principal repayment on the 24 temp
note is September of uh 2027.
» Thank you.
>> Yeah.
So the
water revenue side here uh you can see
uh where we're projecting
uh this would be water and uh excuse me
water and uh
water revenue and expenditure in the
same same uh
page here. You'll like I said you've got
the line items there if you want to go
over those. I have those as well. on the
computer if we want to look into them.
Um,
uh, cash reserve here is not quite as
much. It's only about $50,000.
Um, but we were able to get some, uh,
budget savings here by um, essentially
dialing in the personnel splits for
public works. There was a portion of
them that were uh, uh, to be paid from
both this and the street fund and we we
returned to that portion. The way the way they're split is pretty uh
complicated but going forward they'll be
split appropriately. So
>> So what is that appropriate split? I
mean what is the new split if we're ch
because I'm sorry I kind
>> pull the split schedule but what we
found is that nothing was being pulled
from
>> Yeah. But there it was only like a it
was only like a portion of of one FTE.
It wasn't even it wasn't even like a
full half FTE.
>> It was just a portion of one. And so
essentially it was it was
>> I don't know I don't I can't I don't
know when it happened. I know there was
no budget or there was no uh expenditure
from that line in street last year, but
you know we we're pushing it back into
there now. So it'll be it'll be
allocated there going forward.
>> Yeah. I'd like to know what the what the
splits were.
>> Yeah. It's and honestly at at some point
uh I I've you know I think part of the
reason Matt wants to uh look at not only
you know the facilities uh need study
but again something like that could kind
of better guide how those positions
should be split um you know obviously
with uh
the you know look just looking at the
budget of your utilities and the impact
that you know public works has for them.
Uh it's probably not outside of uh it's
probably a good idea at some point soon
to go and you know make sure that
>> the the way they're split currently and you know not just how they're split
but how they're you know what their
specific jobs entail are better tied to
uh
>> the resources in your uh utility funds.
>> Well and I understand that and I know
that we have um over the years made
changes in different directions. I just
wanted to know what
>> Yeah. what the what those changes are.
>> Yeah, we can get that.
» Uh again, gas utility here um see
increase revenue uh both this year and
anticipate next year as well.
uh personnel numbers here still you know
personnel and commodities tend to be
your highest uh
highest expenditures. Um
we uh you did have a gas project this
year that would be uh paid for out of
the capital improvement fund. So um it
doesn't hit the actual operating
revenue. If it did it would have you
know it was it was a large project so it
would have been under budget. that's why
it's getting paid for a capital
improvement. But again, even with even
with uh you know your cost increases,
we're still putting a cash reserve of
443,000
going forward for next year. So that's
good, which basically just means you can
anticipate that much of a carryover fund
balance, which is, you know,und almost
130,000 more than the uh we're
anticipating for the beginning of the
year.
Sewer, as you can see, is a much tighter
budget. Uh it's been declining in
uh carryover fund balance for for at
least two years now. Um the the funny
thing here is though is you've got
almost a half a million dollars in sewer
reserves. So it's it's it's the reserve
fund with with the largest balance, but
on the operating side it's
>> it's uh you know expenditures as you can
see typically for personnel and
commodities are driving that. So,
um I think Matt has mentioned that
there's probably a need for a
reassessment of sewer rates and
hopefully you can look into that for
following year. This budget anticipated
a minimum a
4 and a.5% increase for sewer rates.
Uh the last couple here are I don't like
calling them pass through funds because
they they're not quite that simplistic
but you know they're much smaller
operating funds uh solid waste recycling
and the storm water fund.
So
still they, you know, uh it's not a
great fund balance, but percentage wise
it's not bad for fund of this size. And
we still even have a uh
pardon me, we still have a cash reserve
here 22,000 going into 27 going at the
end of 27. So that's positive.
Storm water similarly a very healthy
cash reserve actually you know almost
100% of its anticipated expenditure. So,
or excuse me, not 100% of its carryover,
almost 100% of it carryover
from the prior year. So, it's still
operating in a good position. And I did
actually build in the $20,000 and
$25,000 as project potential project
costs for 26 27. Again, you're probably
not going to spend them and so they'll
just carry forward as fund balance.
uh the land bank that truly is just a
you know we budgeted we budget an
expenditure for the full amount of the
carryover fund balance and that's all we
do with that.
>> Okay.
» Is um on the storm water
>> is that more than just
the one employee is that it's do the
public works feed into that one as well?
We're taking a little bit of public.
>> Okay.
>> Because they do.
>> Well, that's I just was asking. I mean,
>> okay. Thank you.
» And then the opioid settlement fund. Uh
Scott still has some uh money left in
it. So, I just budget the full the full
amount to come out in uh 2027. It
doesn't get spent. It can stay there. It
just carried forward.
And then special parks and recck fund
receives uh I think it's half the state
liquor uh
>> distribution
and then you know budgeted I just budget
again budgeted to carry on fund balance
as an expenditure as a reserve or I
actually put in a commodities line in
case there's you know parks small small
scale park improvement you'd like that
doesn't require an entire uh big capital
project. See those big capital projects,
you like to have them in their own
either project fund or run through the
capital improvement fund just because
there's so many costs involved with it,
engineering, you know, potential fees
for
uh you know design and things like that.
So, but smaller projects like you know
if you're going to do a you know buy a amenity that staff can install
things like that on a smaller scale it's
good to use them here and use that use
that money. Um, at some point I would
even consider doing a regular transfer
of uh surplus general fund revenue in
here just to build that up to where you
know you can do smaller projects every
year but bank half of what your transfer
would be just so after two or three
years you have enough to do a not a big
project but another you know significant
addition amenity adding to your park
system and it didn't have to be just you
know the you know like equipments like
that. You could also do a uh
something like a you know re redo relaying sod on
a not sod but you know relaying mulch on
a trail or something like that that is
more than just an every year thing you
do but not quite the scale of a large
capital project.
So on the capital improvement budget that
we saw last time, we had the
approximately two mills going to the
park improvement program. Is that in
just the regular park?
>> It it's going into
>> Where does that go?
>> It's going into the capital improvement
fund.
>> It's going to capital improvement fund.
Thank you.
And then for the budget submission, they
require you to submit a uh 2025 actual
expenditure revenue for your
non-budgeted funds. So beginning with
capital improvement,
uh you see there that total receipts at
177300. That was essentially two mills
plus a, you know, $100,000 catchup from
the prior year for the park project.
But that was the basis for that. Um the
equipment reserve you see transfers from
uh the various funds go in there.
Then uh you know not much not much
expenditure out of equipment reserve
last year. Uh and that that's something
else we can go into is uh I'll start
making I'll start making that part of
the regular monthly report is just
essentially what the cash balances for
these funds look like. So, you know, you
have a more up-to-date regular eye on
how they're performing that can be used
for capital stuff. Uh, water reserve,
fairly low fund balance there. Uh, gas
reserve, not bad, but again, like I said
earlier, sewer reserve,
the worst performing utility fund, but
it does have the largest reserve there.
But that makes sense because sewer sewer
replacement stuff is expensive. So, it's not a bad thing to have that that
type of fund balance. Council,
any further discussion or questions from
Melan?
» Yep.
the way I'm thinking, but if you guys
want to keep it open, we can.
>> So, discussion on what you want to do
about revenue neutral rate hearing.
>> Well, can we discuss that in the regular
meeting since that's where since that's
where that'll have to happen and we only
have a couple minutes left. I do have a
question on the a couple questions on
the capital improvement um plan
schedule. So last meeting the police
vehicle was slated for 2028 and I notice
on this one it's 2027. I thought we had
put we had said we were going to put it
off.
>> Yeah. So we just we just made that
update this week. Chief, when we met, we
all met this week.
Chief was concerned
downscuring
the budget retreat. was not a priority
from the council. So, I don't know how
council wants to resolve that.
Well,
I mean, because we also had it where we
didn't have the we didn't have the
previous vehicle that was replaced after
the accident. Correct. That was not in
the capital improvement budget,
>> but we still did it.
>> We had a portion we had to pay.
But it was
>> No. Okay. I I I'll So right now we don't
have a plan to replace it, but we're
going to budget it. Is Is that going to
be an ongoing that we just keep a car in
the budget?
>> Well, a lot of that depends on our
Chief wants to make sure
I have more discussion on CIP, but I'm
going to bring it up during council
meeting.
>> Okay.
>> So, as far as Matt Lawn, do we have
anything else for Matt?
>> No.
>> Okay. Thank you so much, Matt.
>> Thank you, Matt. So, if you guys do
decide to do the RNR or have the RNR
hearing and, you know, exceed the RNR
rate, that it is a, like I said, it is a
simple calculation. I can have it uh,
you know, I can have it to Matt as soon
as he notifies me of what it'll be and
you'll be able to do whatever you want.
>> Thank you, Matt. I appreciate that.
>> Thank you.
>> Um, I would entertain a motion to
adjurnn.
If there's no further discussion,
>> I move that we adjourn.
>> Second.
>> Motion by council member Morland, second
by council member Hedstrom. All in
favor? I
>> I uh second question. Are you guys ready
to turn around and start again or do you
want a fivem minute break?
>> Five minute break. Yeah.
>> Okay. We will return at 700. Oh, let me
see what time it is on my actual phone.
We We'll return at 7:05 and get started.
And I just want to let everybody know
that if you are signing up to talk,
please make sure you fill out your form
and bring it up to Debbie so that she
can have those all ready to go. Thank
you.
That's right.
I figured
something
Okay.
Good evening and welcome to the Kichai
city council meeting. It is Thursday,
August 27, 2026 and the time is now 710.
Debbie, if you'll please call roll.
>> Here.
here
>> this evening. I would like to welcome
Pastor Doug Woodan to lead the
invocation which will be followed by the
pledge. If you would all please rise.
» Father, thank you so much for the
opportunity we have to live in a free
society where we can vote and share our
concerns and and our goals and dreams
and visions. I pray for the the council
tonight and the staff that you would
give them wisdom of Solomon, but also
the uh the peace of Christ and also what
Paul said that we uh think not of our
own interest but interest of others. And
thank you for this community and may we
all come together and to make us
stronger and better. And we give you all
the praise and glory in Jesus name we
pray. And everyone says
>> amen.
I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.
» Was it hard to sit down?
>> Okay, we'll move on to approval agenda.
Uh, council, I would I requested this
morning. It didn't quite happen. Um, in
under new business, I would like water
discussion moved to A, please. And PEC
would then become B.
And the reason I'm doing that is I'm
changing public comment tonight. Um, in
public comment, it will be nonwater bill
in our regular public comment. And the
other public comment will become part of
the water discussion. I want it all to
happen all at the same time. That's for
the change.
And then I'm going to add CIP to the
discussion time.
Does council have anything else they
would like to add or change?
>> Do we have an executive session?
>> I don't. Does anyone else have executive
session? Okay. So, we will scratch 11.
I move that we approve the agenda with
changing item A on new business to item
B, changing item B to A, and including
public comment as a part of the water
discussion, adding CIP
under council reports, discussion and
requests and striking item 11.
>> Second motion by council member Morland,
second by council member Baldridge. All
in favor? I
>> I
motion passes 300.
Moving on to community. Oh, I'm sorry.
Approval of consent agenda. Is there
anything you want that pulled out or are
you ready to just approve the consent
agenda?
>> Okay. I would just to entertain a
motion.
>> I move we approve the consent agenda as
presented.
>> Second.
>> Motion by council member Headstrom.
Second by council member Balder. All in
favor? I
>> motion passes 300.
Moving on to communication. Are there
any Kichi civic groups or committees
that are here tonight to speak?
>> I see none.
Move on to community announcements. Uh
the only thing I'm going to announce
tonight that I have is that this is the
last weekend for the always Paty Klein
over at the Kai Playhouse. Does anyone
else have any announcements for this
evening? I think we're we still have our
farmers market going on.
>> We do.
>> And on Thursdays from 4:00 to 6:30 and
um every Tuesday at the Methodist
church, the community dinner.
>> Those are the places to be during the
week. Uh city minister Jensen, anything
from the city? Okay, we will move on.
Does anyone have any previous public
comments that they would like to address
at this time?
Okay, Debbie, do we have any nonwater
public comments tonight?
» Miss Burkalter, welcome. Please state
your name and address and you'll have
five minutes.
BK Burkalter 427 Sou Court Kchi Kansas
67067
and I am first of all I want to say to
the audience here I'm glad to see Kchai
because empty seats make decisions. I'm
really glad to see everyone here. As I
stated, empty seats will make decisions.
And so, my first opportunity that I
would like to talk about is the um
problem that I saw with our convenience
store being broken into. I really had a
concern about that. I think that's the
second time if I'm not mistaken, and I
almost thought three times over the 40
years that I've been here, but I do know
it has been too. And I do want to make
sure that uh there is a concern about
that especially with our police
department in full to whatever standards
they're in. Please please make sure it's
the only convenient and gas store that
we have. And so my heart was broken to
know that it was broken into. I also
have a concern about not having an open
forum, an opportunity for our community
to speak uh in reference to the park or
any other kind of activities in front of
the council. I know we might have an
opportunity to speak with our mayor at
some given time uh when permitted. But
we would also like to have the
opportunity or some type of free flowing
uh uh form that we can speak to directly
to you that we can get answers from you.
I don't know if that's ever permittable
uh besides this five minutes that you
may or may not address. I don't know for
sure, but I really would like to see
something like that. And then lastly, I
also was at the meeting that we had last
month and this meeting this uh remark is
in remarks to the fact that if we get
our bills, a lot of people are not
reading them. And I want to say that my
husband was not quite happy about that
because he does read his bills. We are
not stopping out here to read the uh
sign that we have outside. It's really
nice. I love the fact that we've got
news that as we pass by quickly, but I
would also like the fact that if we have
any information that it can be generated
through our bills. Uh we are families
that read our bills. We have 2400 people
here in Keith Chai. And I'm sure that
there are other residents here that
would love to have a stamp spent on them
and a one-page copy or some sort placed
in the mail so that they can find out
what's going on in the city of Kchi.
Those are my main priorities that I
wanted to share with you and thank you
for the opportunity.
>> Thank you, Miss B. Council, do you have
any interaction that you would like to
have with Miss B?
>> Any response? Just actually, Miss B,
were you talking about the park being
able to present things from the park
board to the council?
» Okay.
I I think we under communications we
have each city groups and committees and
that's kind of where I would expect that
to have those kind of updates.
» I I I agree. I think what you're
actually saying is so I normally host
let's talk about a kichi from 6:00 to
6:45 prior to a council meeting. Is that
what you're talking about? Or you can
just come in and talk. So
>> So two council members can attend as
well. So the mayor and up to two council
members can attend. I if we don't have a
budget workshop or some kind of a
specialty workshop, which isn't usually
the case, I'm normally here at 6:00
prior to a council meeting and it's for
45 minutes. Anyone can come in. The
council is invited to come. Two members
can attend as well. So, it is an
opportunity. Before budget season, I did
have a regular group of people that were
coming in to have conversation. I think
that's what you're talking about. And
then quarterly I offer um community
conversation which is on a Saturday
morning from 8 to 10 in the community
room. Um the next one is October 24th
from 8 to 10:00 a.m. Um again the mayor
and up to two council members um are
able to attend and that is a time for
the community to come in and talk about
anything um outside of the council
meetings. So, I'm trying to make more
opportunities where we can just have
conversation um not necessarily inside a
council meeting. Is that what you were
trying to get to? Okay.
You're welcome. Um and I think it does
bring back what I tried to say at the
last meeting. Um I realize that there's
a lot of people that don't read their
utility bills and so it feels like the
announcements being included it's like
what's the point? But I have heard from
people that are like, why don't we get
announcements in our utility bill
anymore? So, I think there are people
that are reading them and that will be
something for the council um to discuss
whether tonight or a later time to
determine whether um we would like those
announcements readded back into the
utility bill.
So, let's see, what was the other thing?
Oh, the convenience store. Um I I didn't
really hear any more updates from that.
Do we have any other updates that came
out of that? So, there's been no issues
since and Key Police Department, thank
you for all that you do and
um yeah, and I will just keep you
updated if we hear anything going on. I
haven't heard of anything happening
since then. So, you're welcome.
Is there any other public comments for
general public comment? Okay, I'm going
to go ahead and pl close the public
comment section.
And we will move on to unfinished
business which is a park update. City
administrator Jensby
>> mayor and council I don't have any
updates since the last meeting I would
add is got a call from leaders.
» I I do have a question on the park. Um,
have core samples been taken for the
soil?
>> They have not. We're waiting on
contract time.
» Okay.
>> Is there a reason why there's been such
a long delay from May until now? We
still don't have any core sampling done.
>> No, they had to develop
review.
Council, any other questions on the park
or the playground? It's really after a
playground update.
>> What was the cost of that contract?
» I think
you
anything else council?
Oh, okay. We will move on to new
business. First up is the water bill
discussion. City administrator Jensby.
>> Mayor, if you give me just a minute, let
me pull up.
All right. So, I will start I'm going to
start with
>> Could you do me a favor, please? Your voice isn't
>> a review of
where we are where we were where we are
now. Uh last year the water rate
analysis was presented to the Kichai
city council to increase our water
rates.
The reason for this is our rates had not
been adjusted since 2016. There was a
rate analysis done and presented to the
council in 2021
uh for both the water and the sewer.
Only the sewer rates were adjusted at
that time. No water rates were adjusted.
So the water utility was becoming
insolvent, which means we were going to
be upside down in it. When a utility
fund like that becomes insolvent, we
have to use property taxes to support
that fund. We don't want to do that. So
a rate study was done. It was presented
to the city council and the city council
made adjustments to the water rates.
Our old rate old rates for a standard
residential meter was $22. For a 2-in
commercial meter, it was8730.
And per gallon use was 1,000 to 10,000
gallons, 733 per unit, 10,000 to 15,
783, 15,000 and up, 1068.
The rates were changed
to increase the base rate for a meter,
$6.60, which made it $28.60.
And we created four different tiers. We
had a tiered system before, but we added
an additional tier. If you'll remember
through those discussions, through our
analysis, we found that a majority of
people use on average between three and
4,000 gallons per month. that is the
average use uh for a home in Kichchi. So
these rates were predicated off of that.
So the base or the usage rate went from
0 to 5,000 gallons within that average
use range to 875 per unit.
5,000 to 10,000 1095 10,000 to 25,000645
and 25,000 and up would be 2467 per
unit. One of the other factors that
played into this is our need to conserve
water and part of the reason for this
tiered system was to encourage residents
or our customers to conserve water. So
the more you chose to use, the more you
would pay. Uh this kind of the way it
was set up. So these rates were changed.
They were adopted and they are currently
being used.
>> Our commercial water rates were also
changed. We found through our rate study
that we were way out of whack from other
cities when it came to commercial rates.
Uh we were really, really high. So to be
competitive, we had to bring those down.
So, our base rate for a commercial meter
changed uh to 4435
uh down 42.95 and the base rate for a
commercial meter uh was reduced $56 to
$11848.
Now, our commercial and industrial
users, they use a ton of water depending
on what their manufacturing process is.
This is in line with what other cities
do as well. Those were changed from 0 to
100,000 gallons at the same rate that a
resident pays$ 875 100,000 to 250 1095
and 250,000 gallons plus 1645
>> what was the former usage
>> uh I don't have that with me
>> it was it it matched
their tiers were the same as the
residential tiers
that
>> oh if that was your question everything
was the same
>> and I also do you mind if I point out
that these these rates that are right
here that you have just showed. These
are not the current rates. That's not
what we get currently charged. Our rates
have been adjusted after
>> with Witchita.
>> Well, they yes, these are old slides
that were presented.
>> Okay. I just wanted
>> So, there has been inflationary
>> Yes.
adjustments to them to to
>> Yes.
to make up for what Witchah has
increased their water rates.
>> I just wanted to point that out. So, if
somebody is out there going, "Wait a
minute. when I calculated my rate, I'm
getting charged a little more than that.
Yes, right now.
>> Yes, this was when the change was made.
I just want to make sure that it's
clear.
>> So, everybody in the audience knows the
city of Ki purchases our water from
Witchah. We purchase it at a wholesale
rate. We mark it up a little bit because
we have a system that we have to
maintain and run and that's what we
charge for that. So anytime those base
rates, those wholesale rates from
Witchah change, we have to pass those on
to and that's part of our
>> and that is one of the other things when we say that there hasn't been any
changes to our rates. We do not mean
that there has been no increases because
as you all know there are times where
our water rates have increased and that
is due to WA witchah raising theirs. So
since 2016, we had not raised the base
rate at all, but the tiered usage rate
did change. So just to make sure that
we're the same terminology there.
>> And and additionally, that there's a 3%
escalation rate that goes into effect
every August 1st.
>> Yes.
That that wasn't there. Could you explain what the water fund is
used for?
ask to get the what
>> you talked about the water fund was
going to become insolvent. That's why
you had to raise the rates.
>> Yeah. Because we weren't charging enough
supplementing what we were paying for
water.
>> I understand that. But would you please
let people know what is that fund used
for? Why do we need to have money in
that fund
>> in the water utility fund? Yes.
>> Yes. We have to have money in there for
repairs to the water lines, maintenance
of the system, to pay personnel to work
on the system. all those things that go
with operating the utility.
>> Thank you.
>> So, this week uh we were contacted
initially by a couple people on Monday
about an increase in water rates. The
mayor made us aware of couple people she
had talked to as well and
social media got a hold of it and really
blew it up. So when anything like that
happens, we here at city hall like to
step back and look at things in
perspective and that's kind of what this
slide is about here. Um we know that
there are some issues. We absolutely um
and we're working through those with the
people that have contacted us. Uh
currently we've had 28 people contact us
here at city hall about their water
bill. Questions about it may have been
too high or they just simply had
questions.
not abnormal. Okay. During any billing
cycle, we have an average of five people
contact us saying, "Hey, can you explain
my water bill to me? It seems a little
high. Why would that be?" And we walk
through that. If we need to go out and
check a meter, we recheck a meter, make
sure it's functioning properly. So,
we had 28 people contact us. We have 860
utility customers. Okay. So, when we
look at this in perspective,
we didn't have a major problem in our
system. We had 96% of people who did not
report a concern. Okay. So, all of those
people that came in, there were 28
people. Of those 28, there were two
accounts that had transposed numbers.
Uh, one incident was from the public
works crew misreading the number on the
meter, which happens when you do meter
reads. The other was uh when we entered
the manual read here at city hall, two
numbers were transposed
uh 74 for 47. Um those happen all the
time. Uh but the 26 other inquiries that
we looked into, all of those were due to
increased usage. No problems with our
city water system, no bad meters. It was
all increased usage that was reflected
on the meter.
So, one thing we've heard from people
this week, there is no way that I could
use that much water. And I completely
understand. So, uh what we have learned
through this process by talking to other
cities, other water operators, uh and
doing some research our ourselves to
help people understand where that usage
could come from. Uh we just came up with
these uh interesting facts here. A
typical residential irrigation zone uses
approximately 8 to 15 gallons per minute
depending on the number and type of
sprinkler heads. As you can see on the
chart up here for a 20 minute cycle
depending on if your system has eight
gallon per minute, 12 gallon per minute,
15 gallons per minute, they can use a
lot of water in a 20 minute period. Uh,
I didn't understand that, but there's a
lot of water that's being dumped on your
yard, especially when it's hot out like
this. People increase their watering and use uh a lot more water. So, per for
perspective, a six zone system running
20 minutes per zone every day could use
approximately 1,200 to 1,800 gallons a
day. And that equates to 36 to 54,000
gallons per month.
The mayor had asked about some of the
ordinances uh as they relate to uh water
and water utilities um and how we handle
those uh when somebody comes in and we
deal with these. So our ordinance says
that on water leaks when a water line
leak is located on the city side, so
that would be from the meter usually to
the street, the city side, the supply
side, uh the city is responsible for any
repairs and costs to repairs and loss of
water. When the leak is from the meter
to the house on the customer side, the
customer shall be responsible for
repairs and water loss that are
occurred.
We have a city ordinance like most
cities that says people will do what's
necessary to keep uh unnecessary waste
or you know use of water uh to a
minimum. Check your sprinklers uh
hydrants faucets all other apparatuses
in your house that are using water.
And many people have asked can we have
our meter tested? Absolutely we can test
your meter and our city ordinance covers
that. Uh meters shall be tested before
being set. All of our meters are
certified before they're set in the
ground by public works. Uh any other
time when there appears to when they
appear to be measuring incorrectly. If a
test is required by the customer and the
meter is found to be accurate within 2%
the meter will be deemed correct and a
charge of this says 10. I think it's a
typo in our ordinance. Uh, so we'll say
$10 plus the amount equal to the actual
cost associated with the testing of said
meter. So what that says is if one of
our water customers comes to us and
says, "We really don't think our meter
is operating correctly. Would you test
it for us?" We can test that meter.
We will test the meter. If the meter is
good and it's operating correctly, the
customer is charged for the cost of
checking that meter. If the meter is
defective, the city incurs the cost on
that. We replace the meter.
So, we've been looking at a lot of water
bills and statements this week, and I
kind of wanted to put this up. It's a
little bit hard to read,
but I'll walk you through it the best I
can. So, the very top graph there is a
customer here in town who said, "We use
very little water and our water bill has
doubled. We don't know why. Um we know
we don't use water. Um we don't have
many
sinks or things in our in our house that
use water. So we pulled up there for a
month and we could see that in fact they
were very low. I mean right down near
zero there. Uh very very little
consumption.
Now you see there's three bar graphs
there that pop up very high. Uh those
indicate that
something in the system water.
So the first blue tick mark that comes
up is represented
one day
11 a.m.
11 p.m. Something occurred on that
system.
that caused a spike.
Utility operators
that uses
So that goes on. It increases throughout
the day. Through the pink bar there, you
can see up to 4,800 gallons were used.
Drops down to 1500 gallons. We can see
on that bottom chart exactly what
happened.
Yes, this person did very very
every incident or every
resident
go
these incidents.
>> So are are all three of
>> all four of those from the same
customer?
All four of those graphs.
>> Yeah,
>> that was just to explain that one
anomaly broke down.
>> Okay. from monthly to.
>> Okay, thank you.
>> So, this graph here shows a customer
that came in and they're like, there is
no way that we could use that much
water. Impossible. So, we pulled up
their account. We can see that they are
following
those.
didn't realize that was happening. They
didn't realize their system was running
so long. They used 12,000.
>> So
where it says the gallons and it's 20 40
60
>> is that
>> have to add a zero to that does not
>> for whatever reason.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Well, I just when when we're
giving these amounts and we see 20, 40,
60, I want to make sure that we're aware
that that is 200, 400, 600.
>> Yeah. Another scenario here
where we look at they came in that there
were issues with their system.
We look at the system, we can see uh
that their usage per week, another this
was probably another sprinkler system,
three days a week. uh their system is
burning 800 gallons.
>> Okay.
>> So, this one says the hundreds and it is
the hundreds.
>> Is that correct?
>> I'm sorry. This one is 8,000.
>> Okay. Okay. So, if that's 8,000,
is that 110,000?
>> No. This this was
which equals 11,000 gallons that
>> So how does a resident know which when
because I had a resident send their
chart to me and I I don't know if it's
actually tens or actual gallons.
>> Yeah. And that's why we encourage people
to come talk to us because we will walk
them through everything that we have.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. That's the best way to do it. So
other things that we learned um during
this process a small a very small leak
can waste thousands of gallons in 30
days.
A10 gallon per minute leak which is
equal to six tablespoons. Think of a
dripping faucet uses 144 gallons a
day,000
gallons in seven days and 4320 gall in a
month.
A reverse osmosis system.
Many people are having them installed in
their house. A reverse osmosis system.
For every one gallon of purified water
its puts out, it discharges five gallons
of dirt.
You can see how quickly that adds up.
So things we know, assurances that we
can provide our community in this
incident.
First and foremost, our number one
responsibility is to provide safe and
reliable water to the residential meter.
Make sure that our system is working
correctly. The water that we are
delivering to you is safe and reliable.
All of our water meters are certified
before being installed.
Through this
process we have we can confirm uh and
prove that our meters are working and
that we are selling the water that is
sold.
What we know is this year we have sold 3
million gallons more
in June and July this billing period
that's in question than we did in
we know that all the water that we
purchased we sold. So there's not a
surplus of water. HI does not have the
ability to store water. Don't have a
water tower. Don't store the water
anywhere.
Those numbers are consistent. Tells us
we don't have a leak in the system. And
it tells us that everything coming in.
>> And just for clarification, I know he
just said June and July. He meant June
30th to July 31st. It wasn't two
different months. It was a 30 basically
a 30-day period. It was just 3 million
gallons one time that we sold
>> during that period. Yes.
>> Correct.
>> So, we had a couple people say, "Well,
we think our meter is inflating the
usage." Okay.
>> If a meter was inflating the usage,
which there are no electronic moving
components in it, a meter only monitors
what comes through it. The water flow
is accounted by a little spinning wheel
in it. It's not hooked to an electric
motor or anything like that. It it
doesn't move unless water's flowing. If
meters were were inflating the usage, we
would have a surplus of water. We know
we don't have a surplus of water. Uh we
do not have the cap the capability to
produce our own water. we purchase from
Witchah and sell with
After gathering all this information, I
called the mayor. I asked her to come in
and sit down with us and we met for
about two hours and we presented her
with all the information that we had.
myself, public works director, utility
billing clerk, city clerk, we all sat
down, we all discussed this
and at the end of the meeting uh we came
up with these findings uh that all water
meters that we checked are functioning
properly.
After investigation, all complaints of
high bills are directly related to
customer usage.
All meters in question have been
rechecked that extreme dry and heat
contributed to more use by customers
and water water purchased and water used
are consistent. So those figures water
that we that comes through our main
meter and the water that we sell are
consistent. There's no inconsist
inconsistencies and that goes to where
we have consumed system as a whole more
than three gallon 3 million gallons
more.
>> I'm just going to make a point of
clarification here. Um these were the
findings that were presented to the
mayor. These are not my findings. These
were the city's findings.
» So, we as a team agreed that we would
put some additional steps in process to
help our residential customers. Uh
putting additional information on our
social media site, which we have started
to do. Start putting door hangers on
homes when leaks are observed. Our
public works department when they're
just out and about routinely stops by
people's house and if they see a leak
mostly with their irrigation system.
They see water running down the driveway
or over the curb. They stop, they knock
on the door, they try to get a hold of
them, tell them, "Hey, you have a leak.
You probably need to look at it." We as
a city cannot fix those leaks or
anything like that on the resident side
of the of the meter. We do not have the
authority to go fix somebody's. Okay.
Put door hangers on when meters are
replaced. In the past, when a meter was
replaced, public works just went out,
shut off the water, put the new meter
in, hooked it up, turned the water back
on, and people usually never knew about
it. But we will start notifying people
when they have a new meter.
>> Uh the city
is continually going through an upgrade
meter process. We have
lack of a better term, our system now,
or our old system had what we call
manual read units on it where the guys
would go up, they'd pull the lid up,
they'd flip the lid, wipe it off with a
little rag, and take the
Now we have a mix of electronic read and
manual read. The electronic read sends
the signal to city hall, integrates with
our system, and produces the wall.
There is a future option as we get
switched over to this new electronic
system uh for the opportunity for
residents to have access to a portal
similar to what Witchah does where you
pay a small fee and then you can log on
each month and you can see updated
history of your water. So that's what
we're working towards.
Uh, and last but not least, we want
people to know that you can have your
water meter tested. And like I said
before, these would apply if that meter
was in good condition, good operating
condition.
>> Okay.
>> Um, I would like to say that I am
appreciative of city staff um, in doing
their investigation. I appreciate that I
was included in the meeting to hear
their updates and their findings and
that there are um, new steps they're
going to take going forward.
So, I talked to council member Headstrom
today and
trying to wrap our head around, you
know, if we have an issue. We're not
seeing an issue is what I'm saying on
the cities. We don't have any major
leaks. What we are seeing when we look
at all these accounts is increased usage
at the meter. What what is causing that
increased usage, we don't know. That's
what's frustrating for us, too. We just
don't have the ability to to find that
out. So, we like to try to use the tools
that we have to help people find out uh
what is occurring.
Todd said, is there a way to find out
where most of the complaints are coming
from? So, this afternoon, we threw
together a little pin dot map here of
where the complaints are coming from,
and
they're somewhat consolidated uh up here
in this this northern area of town off
of Oliver, but there's a couple more
throughout town. So, uh, we will use
this information to see if there's been
any changes to the system. We have not
made any system, but could it be a
pressure issue? Um, is there has
something increased the pressure in our
system that we don't know about that's
creating more water to be pushed through
different?
So, this all of this information, the
information we get from citizens when
they come in, we use it to try to figure
out what's going.
But I think uh what I want the council
to know and I what I want our resident
is please
There's a reason for it.
You don't
Very
Everybody,
» I will have more to discuss once we get
through public comment. Um, council, do
you have anything for city administrator
Jensy?
>> Um, I'm gonna wait till after public
comment.
>> Okay.
Anyone else? No, not at this time. Thank
you for the presentation. I really
appreciate it.
Okay. Um, for public comment, um, I kind
of put out a warning not knowing how
many people were going to sign up to
actually speak. So, at this time, the
number is low enough. You will each have
five minutes when your name is called.
When you come to the podium, please
speak into the microphone so that it
gets recorded and state your name and
your address and then you'll have five
minutes to share.
>> Debbie,
» welcome
Jonathan Olson, 231 East Kodiak Court.
Do we have the ability to display that?
>> He sent me over the file.
>> It wouldn't
>> this
» you couldn't you couldn't get it to
>> whatever.
>> Okay.
>> All right. This is
>> This is from Jonathan.
>> Oh, this is from Jonathan. Okay. Thank
you. Okay. Sorry. Thank you. Apologies.
My bad. I
>> So, I wanted it up on the screen so you
could all see that. But, uh, I will
start with this. Uh, I did a graph of
I don't know the exact years, but the
2021 rates and I was given the rates
now, which are very comparable to yours
uh, three months ago.
So, and I just wanted to emphasize the
percentages.
Uh, the basic rate went up 27% which is
reasonable.
The,000 to 5,000 gallons only went up
20%.
The 5,000 to 10,000 went up 50%.
10,000 to 15,000 went up 88%.
15,000 to 25 went up 54%.
And for us people that have fescue yards
and bigger yards, anything over 25
gallons went up 130%.
And all at once, that increase to me is
very hard to swallow.
Okay.
Now, my water bill,
uh, last month it was $51,000
$1,000 bill.
>> Wait, wait.
>> Excuse me. Could you say that again,
please?
>> Last month, my bill I just got for July.
>> Uhhuh.
>> Was 51,000 gallons.
>> 51,000 gallons.
>> Thank you.
>> Okay.
» I know about that one.
>> I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait.
>> And so it's a $1,000 bill.
>> Okay.
>> I came in. I do have an electronic
meter. So, I came in and it appears my
August bill, which is the same amount of
water, three days every week, haven't
turned it off, is going to be under
40,000 gallons. So, I'm going to wait
till I get my exact bill and then we'll
come and talk. Uh, and it looked like my
graph, there were no I looked at the
graphs for both months, no peaks or
leaky toilets or anything like that. So,
uh, I appreciate Matt your openness and
willingness to work with people.
So, but anyway, with these rates
on a dry month,
my bill is going to be $600, $700 a
month.
Okay. So, I have a choice. Am I going to
pay that amount of money or am I going
to have brown grass?
And brown grass is not attractive to
people driving through Kichi or are
thinking about moving in.
$500 water bills are not either. Okay.
And I guess my last comment is supply
and demand.
uh at the prices you have set, we as
customers have a choice to pay the bill
or turn the water off. And some of us
will turn the water off, which means
less money for you.
So that's simple supply and demand.
So
thank you very much.
>> Thank you, Jonathan. Council, did you
have anything you wanted to respond to,
Jonathan
or not? At this time,
>> I'm I mean, I'm Well, I'm just going to
say I want to hear from everybody that
has a concern.
>> And I do I am taking that into account
to make sure I ask the correct questions
and formulate them at the end. So,
please don't take it that I'm not asking
you because I'm not interested and I'm
not listening. I am, but I want to kind
of get the whole picture.
I would like to ask one question in
council that he just brought up. So the
recommended high rate on the over a
thousand gallons is that part of the
recommendation that came from Witchah
due to conservation that the higher
volume should be charged at a much
higher rate to try to get people to
water less.
>> It wasn't necessarily charge a higher
rate.
Okay,
>> this was one of many. But remember,
» thank you.
>> So the do we know what? Well, I'll I'm
going to save my question till the end.
It will be related to that.
>> I think as we go through these also,
it's important to note that in the tier
system, you pay the lower rate for the
5,000. If you use 27,000, you pay the
low rate and then the next rate and then
the next. It doesn't I I had that
question this week. So, you don't get
charged just because you went over that.
You don't get charged for every gallon
of usage at that rate.
>> Okay. All right. Go ahead. Did you have
something else?
>> Oh, if you want to pass it around, they
can look at it.
>> Yeah, you're more than welcome to do
that. Debbie,
» welcome Daryl.
» Daryl Adterbury, 400 East Kodiak. Uh,
first of all, thank you very much to the
city administrator for his presentation.
Uh earlier today I dropped off a letter
with a lot of questions. Um working
during the day, don't have time to get
in here during the day to ask those
questions. So thought that was a good
way to do it to get answers. Uh so uh
his presentation uh answered a lot of
those questions and it's good to hear
that the city staff is working on trying
to find some of the answers to some of
the questions I already have. Uh, one
thing that I would like to move on to is
the uh the bill itself.
Uh, as I look at the bill and having
talked with uh friends in in uh Maize uh
Derby and Witchah, their bills look a
little different and it explains a
little different uh what your usage is.
like uh Councilman Hedstrom said that uh
you're build by tier. Well, on those
bills, it breaks that out in tiers
exactly what your your uh amount is so
that it's very clear how much you used
in each tier and how much your bill
should be. Uh one of the things I don't
know is uh is there an incremental
charge for parts of a thousand? uh we're
charged 5,000.
Yeah. Okay. So, I did a calculation on
mine and I used 19 units and it looks as
though they were all charged at the tier
four rate.
>> Oh.
>> So, I'll talk to you about
>> Yeah. Just just real quick while it's on
my mind. We build by the thousand. So
when they read each month it's 999
don't you don't get bill that rolls
over.
>> Okay. Yeah. And I look forward to the
opportunity to come in and discuss when
we both have time. So with that I'll
conclude unless you have any questions.
>> Anybody have any questions council?
>> I don't I
>> thank you for the letter. I haven't
finished reading yet this evening, but
understand that most of those have
already been answered or they're going
to be answered.
>> Okay.
>> Thank you.
>> Debbie.
» Pam, welcome.
302 Cheyenne Court.
My husband built our home 27 years ago
and I joined him 13 years ago when I
married him.
We love Kai
and along with a lot of my people I
believe that are still here. We were
stunned when we opened our water bill.
We have an almost $800 water bill. We've
been running 12,000
12 units. Is that right? 12 units
>> and we're over 40 now.
So, our water uses has we don't feel has
changed.
Uh we do have um we do not have a leak.
We do not believe that. We've checked
our toilets over and over. We've checked
our systems over and over. Uh, our
neighbors had theirs reread
on Monday morning and so I went across
the street and said, "Would you come
read ours?"
Bless James Hart. I've never met James
before, but bless James Hart. He came
and read our meter. He said, "It's
running properly." And he said, "There
are no leaks. Is everything shut off in
the house?" And I said, "Yes." And he
showed us the little dial that goes and
moves. He said if there was a leak that
would be moving. Yeah, that would be
moving.
And so we thanked him for his kindness
and then I made a way to city hall.
I asked to speak with Thomas and I got a
whole bundle of people. I got Thomas, I
got our city administrator, I got um
Christa and I got Ben.
And we sat down and we had a really nice
cordial conversation.
But when I left, I realized I still
didn't have the why of my water usage.
Why is it so high for 27 years? It
hasn't been high. Why now? I came from a
plumbing family. I my I was a plumber's
daughter, a commercial plumber. Big big
business here in town or in Witchah. I
was married. My my late husband was a
plumber in big like Wesley and some of
the big hospitals. So, I'm not stupid
when it comes to water meters and water
situations. My engineer husband is not
stupid to things now either. He is the
sigman southpaw on south on social media
in case you want to know.
Um, but in like I said when in talking
to our staff who was very they were very
gracious,
all I was received was this.
That's it. I wasn't offered a copy of my
bill. I wasn't offered any of that
stuff. I was just given this.
And so went home, told my husband, I
said, "Let's check the toilets again.
Let's check the water." He goes, "I'm
telling you, I don't think that's what
it is.
I want to know the why. Why is our water
bill so high?"
So,
I sat down
and I wrote an email. Every one of you
council people, I sent one to you,
mayor. Yes. I sent one you
>> and I said, you know, I want to know
why. Within two hours, Teresa sent me an
email back.
And it was real interesting because she
not only sent me an email, you called
me. I texted you. You called you. That's
right. I have
>> I still had her number from being on
fair committee together.
>> We connected. We did. We connected. And
Teresa began to go down a process of
different questions. Were you given
this? Were you given that? I said, "No,
no, no. I was given this.
Save water. Don't waste it." Whatever it
is. All right. So,
I got a response from our mayor and I I
saw the care. Paul sent me a message.
Paul and Todd, you guys would send us me
a message back, but you were like four
minutes apart. I thought, "Oh, I wonder
if they're discussing it." Paul was so
gracious. He said, "We are aware of the
situation." I'm trying to find my notes
here. We're aware of the situation. Uh
there is a and quote, "There has been an
investigation launched. I was told that
in the email. I was told that it would
be discussed tonight and that there was
concern about it and we would be taking
care of things to find out the why." So,
I felt satisfied. I'd heard from Teresa
asking questions. I'd heard from Paul. I
got your email, Todd. You were gracious
enough to email me back. Thank you for
that. Here's the thing. You said you
talk start talking about rates. We don't
care. We don't care about the rates. We
don't care if there's a 3%. We care
about our water usage. That wasn't
necessarily addressed, I don't think, in
the email. Then he went on to talk about
how wonderful our
people are at here at city hall and they
are wonderful, but they didn't help me.
All right. And so we felt really
frustrated, especially after being here
for 27 years.
So
after I had all of that had happened,
um
I'm trying to find my notes. I'm so
sorry.
Okay.
And I do resp I do appreciate all the
responses. I everyone that responded, I
do appreciate it. But since Monday, I
kept hearing over and over and over if
you if you go through any neighborhood,
you can see clusters of legal groups of
people of residents saying, "What's
happening? Why is my water bill?" I
don't care if it's 28. There's more than
that. There's got to be more than that
or that haven't called you. There are
more. I'm telling you, there are more
people that are having issues because
we're hearing it.
Why the increase in the consumption or
usage? That's our question. That's my
husband's my question. Why? What has
happened? It's more than just toilet
zone. Something's not right.
And what's interesting is that we keep
hearing the same pat
something you've done. We saw a
wonderful presentation and I'll go back
and share and take that into account.
And you talk about the small percentage.
Only 28 people. I still think there's
more. only 28 people, but those 28
people live in key time.
And those 28 people may be the elderly
person who can't afford their bill. We
can. We're we're blessed enough we can,
but they may not be able to afford their
bill. What if it's that single mom who's
struggling to even buy groceries and now
she's got to worry about paying for her
water? What about the young family who's
already having a hard time paying even
their mortgage? There are people that
this has caused a big deal with and a
big hardship in their in their family.
This month's usage, like I said,
may have affected 28 people out of the
what 2400,
but whether there's 20 28 people or
there's all 2400, every one of these
residents matter.
>> And it's time for somebody to care.
>> It really truly is. We are fortunate
enough to know that my husband, like I
said, can handle it. Not one at the city
hall offered me a printout. You said you
were available, but I didn't know that I
was supposed to ask for it. Nobody
offered me a print out. Not one. I
didn't know I had to ask.
And although you guys were kind,
um, you know, told me to check for water
leaks, gave me a wonderful little
six-inch ruler. And Matt,
you threw us under the bus yesterday
when you talked about it's all on the on
the residence. We felt so betrayed as a
resident. We felt very betrayed,
especially after 27 years in Kichi. My
husband couldn't believe it and that was
the clincher. That's why I'm speaking
tonight.
>> We're very concerned about what's
happening in Kichi. We're here to
question and discover the why we have a
socalled water usage increase.
So, council
staff, elected officials,
it's time for someone to stand up and
truly care and investigate. Just like
Paul said, there's been an investigation
launch. Has there or is there just some
kind of thing that let's pat him on the
back and it'll go away? This will not go
away.
It will hurt our community.
Something's not right.
And right now, we are angry.
We're We're angry. We don't We don't
want to be. We're kind people. Some of
these people back here can tell you that
we're kind people. I got neighbors that
came on both sides of us that we love
dearly
and we want to be good neighbors. But
I'm telling you, something needs to be
investigated here. Something needs to be
checked out. There's more. do this than
just high usage or toilets that that
aren't flushing right or sprinkler
systems that aren't working properly.
And uh I could have said two more thing,
two more minutes, but I took all that
fluff out.
>> Thank you. Thank you. I really
appreciate it. I want to clarify
something. Um and this is something I've
tried to get clarified online to help
people see a little bit differently. Um
we keep saying 28 people in a community
of 2400. No, no, no. It's 28 meters
currently being discussed. That
represents more than 28 people. So we
have 28 meters out of what did you say?
880 meters. So that's we were comparing
apples to oranges. It needs to be
compared that this is 28 meters that are
known at this time compared to the 88.
>> One more reason why you need to find the
Y.
>> Thank you. Thank you. Council, do you
have anything for Pam?
>> No.
Okay. And I will just say that so in
that email, as Pam said, I knew that um
she had addressed her concerns to us and
I literally did send back I think it was
like what 10 or 15 questions. What about
this? What about that? What have you
done this? Have you done that? Because
as Matt said, these are all individual
cases and I don't know who has a
sprinkler, who doesn't? I don't know
some of that. So that's why and I and
because I like I said I've been on
committee with Pam before. I had her
phone number and I said these are my
questions. I sent them back to her and
said if you don't want to type out the
answers you got my number. So when you
guys reach out to us and that's how we
hear about it. I'm fine with you using
social media because sometimes that's
how you find out you're not alone.
>> Right. And and so if that's how you find
it out, but as Matt said, when you find
that out, yeah, reach out. Reach out to
Matt. Reach out to us. We represent you.
elected, every one of us up here was
elected by you. So, thank you for
reaching out,
» Debbie.
We have one here. It says it has two
knives. as leg.
» Okay. All right. Weird.
>> Welcome. Hi.
>> Hi. Hi. Uh, so a couple things. So, one,
>> could you just state your name and your
address, please?
>> Sam Eglehoff, 469 East Kodiak.
>> Sam contacted me.
>> Yep.
>> Thank you.
>> So, um, two things. So, one, you know, I
was one of the lucky people that got a
35,000 gallon, which was $600 in water.
Um,
and uh, so yeah, I wasn't pleased with
that. Uh, and then I just checked my
meter and it's going to be another
probably 400 or 500 this month that
because I haven't got the bill yet,
right? We haven't sent them out yet. So,
one thing there is it would be nice if
we could get the bill sooner. So,
because now we're already like three
weeks in to August, right? Or almost
four weeks into August. Uh, and I think
I just got it last weekend. So, uh, so
it'd be nice if we get a little sooner.
The mobile app, maybe that would help,
too. But I like that idea. Um, now the
interesting thing that is different
about mine, uh, so the Bob Kle part of
this, uh, who lives on Dakota, my
father-in-law, uh, I checked his because
he's been out of town, uh, for since
June 2nd. Uh, and so I looked at I had
him send me his bills, uh, and he's kind
of backwards. So he has and so so no
one's messed with his, no one's been
running toilets, no one's been flushing,
you know, no one's been using any water,
just sprinkler system, basically. Uh and
so his is interesting because uh so so
May 30th to June 30th he used 10 units
which seems really low for uh like I
think he's got like nine zones. It's a
big big yard. Uh and that's got 10 zone
or Yeah. So they use 10 units for that.
Then June 30th to July 31st of the month
we're talking about somehow he only used
six units which doesn't make any sense
to me at all like at all. So, uh, I I
talked to the guy here this morning. Uh,
I came in over the lunch hour and got
the chart. So, the other problem I guess
that you kind of alluded to, I got on
mine, I got the graph. I got the chart.
He's on an older system, I guess, so he
can't have a chart and so I don't know
what the deal is there, but uh, it would
be helpful to have I don't know if you
guys on the back end can get any more
detail, but something doesn't add up
there.
>> Yeah, that's when I spoke about we have
mixed meters. Yeah,
>> the manual read meters. not give the
fancy graph electronic,
>> you know, as we transition over. That is
our goal is to get everybody
>> Yep. For sure.
>> Yep. Yep. For sure. So, I I don't know.
That just doesn't make sense to me. I'm
not sure how that would work, but uh I
guess we'll figure it out eventually. Um
the other thing I thought that was
interesting that I haven't heard
referenced today is when I came up
today, the guy at the front said that
every meter was manually read last
month. uh and that um there was a
computer system issue and that's why
they manually read everything. So I
don't know. I'm just saying like a
confluence of things altogether
doesn't really it doesn't inspire a lot
of confidence, right? So um so yeah. So
I'm just saying like I think you know I
would continue to dive into it. I I
think based on all the feedback, it
sounds like we're we're hopefully going
to. Uh I think the the flow rate, you
know, is an interesting idea. Uh doesn't
solve my father-in-law's issue, but hey,
if you know, if no one changed their
stuff and now it's way more than, you
know, the previous months or a year,
maybe you do have you're flowing more
through their uh if you didn't change
your your your sprinkler systems and
stuff. But um yeah, anyway, I think uh
just, you know, I appreciate the time to
speak and everything, but just, you
know, continue digging into it, please.
>> Thank you.
>> Anyone have any comments or anything
with Sam?
>> I have a question for Matt. Uh so on
those older meters, can we still see
like a breakdown like you how you showed
the
>> No, you can't see any like additional
>> manual on those meters. Public
Okay.
» Month over month compared to last year.
>> Yeah. For last year. Okay.
once a year just like this time.
We had
physically touchs
it.
Does not change
electronic.
» And Matt, just for everybody, Thomas
said they start reading meters on the
first and it takes them a few days. So
somewhere between the first and 5th, all
of the meter, all of the manual meters
should be read. We can't do it.
>> All right. And as somebody who did your
utility billing for about 10 years, um I
can speak to why we have the system in
place and why it takes that long. as we
alluded, even when we don't have the
manual reads, um, because there's been
there's usually always some manual
reads, even if even if when we did have
all of them on it, we had a different
reading system at one point and we
switched to Zenner
to make sure that those are entered.
After they get entered, then there's
followup to make sure that if there is
any reads that aren't correct, that seem
a little off that we would take that
time. And then um your bills are due on
the 10th of the month. So that kind of
puts that person in utility billing kind
of in that position to be working on the
bills that are coming in instead of the
bills that are going out. And so that
takes a couple days and then late
notices. And then after that process
because we want to make sure that before
we send out the next bill that you have
the current bill paid for because if
we're not having that information on
there then um you're like wait a minute
no did I pay this? Did I not? and that
causes confusion itself. So that's why
there is a lag between when we um send
it and I know that like I said I heard
those calls for a long time and I was
the one up behind the phone explaining
those and talking them through. So, I do
get the frustration with when you're
like, "Wait a minute. If id had known,"
and I will say that there was a lot of
times where if we could, depending on
how things were going, we would say,
"Hey, um, this was abnormally large.
Sometimes we don't notice it because
it's not um if it it depends on the the
percentage of increase."
So, I do know that that's why the time
limit or the times are what they are on
sending out those bills. And that way we
also had them sent out at the end of the
month like that. So people who get paid
at the end of the month or within the
first week of the month still had the
option to be able to pay it in that time
period to kind of make it easier on our
budgeting process.
Debbie.
>> Yes.
>> Dennis,
welcome.
» Name's Dennis Bell, 408 Comanche Circle.
Been in Kichi for over 25 years. Never
met Pam. It's nice to meet you today.
My concern is is not the rates. I
understand the rates. Understand all the
w water treatments in Witchah.
Understand all that. And I'm perfectly
fine with that.
It's all to make everything better. I'm
a conservative.
I have a water barrel.
I have a $4,000 whale.
I do water my lawn.
We water our beautiful flowers. My wife
takes care of them. There are two of us,
me and her. And I just recently retired,
but I'm still working because I don't
know how to quit.
So, we have had our bill. We looked at
our bills all for all year year long
from January to now.
Actually, we looked at our bill for the
last 25 years and everything's been
perfect.
But somehow this July something went
whack.
We now have used 30,000 gallons of water
that we've never used. I don't have a
swimming pool. I don't use my sprinkler.
I use my well. We use our well to water
our flowers.
All of that. I even had three neighbors,
God bless neighbors,
came and were looking at my meter as
well. And I was running in shutting off
toilets,
faucets, water to the house, trying to
figure out where could I be losing
30,000 gallons of water.
And guess what? No leaks. Every faucet I
replaced because I remodeled because I
retired.
Every every toilet or every uh item that
I have in the house, I've replaced and
used and checked.
When you lose water, you hear it where
you're losing water. I do not have
neighbors that hook up a garden hose and
then just start filling up their
swimming pool with it.
I do not have spongy ground. I've had
sprinklers go bad. And guess what? After
a while, this the ground gets so spongy,
you know you've got a leak.
You hear water leaking from a stool or not necessarily the faucet or a
garden hose or something of that nature.
So, I am very upset. It's probably the
first time I've ever been this upset
living in Kichi.
and being here 25 years building my own
house and selecting KI to live in I
think it's my duty to at least voice my
opinion of what's going on normally I
don't have too many opinions about Kichi
other than I love the place my kids were
raised here and unfortunately one used
to be here but lives somewhere else but
I'm also thankful that I can pay my
bills I'm also thankful that my kids are
close.
So, I went to the city. I asked them
about my my bill, talked to the clerk,
very friendly.
He arranged a work order to have another
reading done on my meter.
And matter of fact, I was off that day.
So, when uh the
worker came out to check the meter, I
asked him a lot of questions. He was
very polite
and meter meter checked out.
Amazing.
I checked my meter to the bill. Then I
checked my meter at two two days later.
Everything just seems as kosher as hell.
I don't know what's going on here. I
really don't.
I pay bills. If I owe somebody, I pay
them.
And that's just the honest way to be.
But what I don't like is as somebody not
to check into what my problem is and I
pay for something I shouldn't have to
pay for.
I give to a hell of a lot of charities
and I think about a lot of people in in
turn people especially people with fixed
incomes.
How are they going to manage this? But
I'm fortunate enough to be blessed
enough to take care of it if I need to
because I have surplus money for
emergencies.
So, I'll go to I went to the city.
He came out, read the meter. He said,
"There's nothing I can do." He says,
"You need to come to this meeting or you
need to talk to Thomas." I went back up
here and talked to Thomas.
And the answer I got was, "You have a
leak." "No, I don't.
Do you know where my 30,000 gallons of water went?" "I have no idea," Thomas
said.
I said, ' So, what does it take to get
my meter replaced?
Well, it will cost you $250 to have your
meter replaced.
Huh? I paid for hookup when I built the
house. Why do I have to pay for a meter
if I have a suspect meter? Never once
was it offered that they test my meter
to make sure it was correct. I was told
it's correct
and that it's functioning.
I wasn't offered any charts,
any explanation,
or I didn't even get a ruler, by the
way,
of what could possibly happen and where
this water could be going.
I'm telling you, something's not right.
I'm not using that kind of water.
I have no pool.
If I have to pay for this, I I'd rather
fill somebody's pool up and pay for it.
So anyway, I I appreciate your concerns
of listening to me. I do want you
understand I love Ki, but
this kind of drew a straw.
Thank you.
>> Thank you.
Does anyone have any followup
for Dennis? No.
Okay. Okay, Debbie.
welcome.
Debbie Harp, 531 Prairie Creek Drive,
Kai.
I can second everything that's been
said. I brought my last three bills.
$250
for the month of May,
97 for the month of June,
216
for the month of July. That is a lot of
up and down. I did come in and talk to
Ben about the $250 bill. I got the same
thing. There's nothing wrong. There's
nothing going on. I said, "Can you tell
me my water usage?" He said, "The
application that we use not working
right now in it is working on it getting
it fixed and he did have my meter read
and he called and said that it was fine.
There was nothing wrong with my meter
but the app that they use for the graphs
was still not working. So that was the
end of that. There was no other
followup. Um, I was gone for a week in
July. So I, you know,
by 216, my sprinkler system is on the
same timer that it's always been. Waters
three times a week. And then I haven't
changed or extended this watering time.
I just leave it alone. In the example
that Matt gave us of how much a
sprinkler system can use, you used five
days. We're only allowed to water three
days. So that was not a fair comparison
because what you showed was five days of
watering and we're not allowed five days
of watering.
We have a restriction.
I've even gone to and this is pretty
silly, but when I'm warming up the
shower in the morning, I'm collecting
that water until it gets hot and that's
what I'm using to water my flowers
outside,
you know? So I don't know what else I
can do or what I'm that is so different
that's making these bills go like this.
I mean, that is from 250 to 97 to 216.
Really, nothing's changed. Um,
how do we know if we have an old meter
or a new meter?
» Okay. And I would encourage you to go
out to Facebook. I know you're saying
only 28 people contacted you, but I
think it would benefit you to look at
the Facebook page regarding this and you
would see a whole lot more than 28
people commenting on this.
>> Yeah. And I think that was my plea is
that we can't do anything we don't know
about. come talk to.
>> Well, I did and I was told nothing was
wrong and that the application that the
graphs come from was not working and
they didn't know. He actually said he
didn't know if it would be able to get
it. So, I did come and that's what
>> I got in response.
>> I'm sorry, I was a little confused. Was
that in May? That was for the $250
and then the 97 and then 216 is the one
I just got.
>> That's just for water. That's not
anything else.
>> It's the app is back working now, right?
Because we've seen some of that detail.
>> Yeah.
>> Or or the the detail if you have the
electronic meter. So, we should be able
to get that to you.
>> So, I I don't know which kind of meter I
have. And Ben never contacted me and
said, "Hey, it's back up. You can have
information.
>> What I would suggest is come back in and
have them.
>> Okay, I can do that. But I guess my
frustration is that it's automatically
being stated it's not it's the people's
problem. And I don't think that that's
fair. We can't all be the problem. We
can't all have problems with our meter
and it not be anything to do with Kai.
And I don't I'm not saying it's the
personel. I'm just saying I don't know
if it's the software that's reading the
meters, if the meters are being read
wrong, what the clog is, but there is
something because we can't all have
leaks.
>> Just to address part of that is
taking the same approach as Teresa and
what we've said. I've got some questions
at the end that more investigative,
>> right? But please note,
everything we're seeing, everything
Matt's seen, I've talked to Thomas
multiple times this week, we can't find
a a smoking gun. We we we haven't found
a smoking gun. We're still looking to
see if there's a system issue. We
haven't been able to find one yet.
>> And just like
>> everything go back to usage. So,
>> and I think that's a very good point.
That's what I was maybe I didn't
communicate it clear enough. We we can
only act on the information and the
facts we have today. Okay. What we know
today is that we don't have that
and there's no problems.
What we know is there's hiding. Okay.
We're not saying anybody's fault. We're
just saying that's the information we
have. We want to help you investigate
it. That's why each case is different.
>> Yeah. We're not
>> Yeah. Sometimes we can't
what the usage is from.
>> But if nothing has changed, my sprinkler
systems runs the same amount of times,
the same days of the week.
I'm collecting the shower water to water
the flowers. How come I have such an up
and down when nothing has
>> Yeah. And that's that's the frustrating
thing for the city. We don't know that.
>> Well, we we don't have the we don't have
the ability to know that. We don't have
Once that meter once that water goes
through our meter, we don't have the
ability to know what's going on.
» I hear what you're saying, but I'm not
accepting what you're saying because
there's got to be an issue somewhere
because we all have the same issue.
>> We understand.
>> I have no water running over my curb
that you said. I have no soggy spots in
my yard.
>> The information we have is what we have
to work on. That information may change
and then we will work on that.
What we're saying today is this is
» well I I
>> but we will yeah we are going to do our
best as a city
» I mean I don't know what else to say but
there is something going on. Yeah, I
think part of the issue either I think
part of the issue too that has now
arisen that I am hearing from people
>> is the fact that on a news story last
night you said the people use the water
and they need to pay for it.
>> That's the problem because you it's
basically saying it's not the city's
problem, it's the people's problem and that's I'm listening to them. I
mean, I've been accused of not standing
up enough for residents, and it's like,
no, I'm taking all the information in
right now. I am trying to listen. I'm
listening to the city. I'm listening to
people who contact me. I'm listening to
the conversations.
And I don't have answers. And the more I
listen, the more questions I have
because one of the things is that you've
already stated is in a normal month,
five bills.
That's your normal in month is five bill
issues. You now have a minimum of 28
that you are aware of. And there's more
that people I've had people tell me they
don't care. Why should I tell them? So,
and I'm like, "No, no, no. I really need
you to go to city hall. I need you to
log this in with the city." But that's
part of it, too. So, um, it it was
really difficult. I I I didn't even know
there was a news story. I couldn't
defend it last night. And I said, it's
not my words. I don't know what to say.
He said what he said. That's and all we
can do is talk about it.
>> And everybody that's here, if that's the
way it came across, I apologize. It's
not what And I think you can see that by
the help that we will tonight.
>> Yeah. There's there's no
What we are offering to help people work
through this.
» I will make an exception. This is a big
issue. I want people to be heard.
>> Jonathan Olson, 231 East Kodiak Court.
before coming to the city, you may want
to wait till your August bill because I
think mine may be 20% less
and I think that would give you better
context
of yeah, we may have used the water but
it wasn't our fault.
So that may be a
>> I have heard from a number of residents
that are saying that when they had their
meter reread by the city to see if it
was leaking that they've been told that
their number is significantly lower than
what their July bill number was and that
there was still like six days left. So
that is creating even more questions
like, "Okay, but if I never cuz you
didn't get your bill to know you needed
to change your watering patterns or that
you might have a leak or whatever it
could be or someone left the hose."
Nobody knew that
going into their August watering and the
numbers are significantly lower and most
of them I'm hearing are very close to
what their numbers had been the month
before. It's an anomaly. But I I heard
you say like we usually only have five
bills a month. We have a minimum of 28
at this point that have been reported.
So for me that creates a massive red
flag that something is very much off and
we don't have any answers at this point.
So um if if council doesn't have
anything else yet, I'm going to go back
to Debbie and ask for the next person.
That's it. Okay. I'm going to actually
because some people might not have
signed up. Is there anyone else that is
attending tonight that would like to
speak? Okay, go ahead. Yep. Come go
ahead. Come up and just state your name
and your address, please. And then if
you would after the meeting fill out a
form for Debbie to have for record.
Thank you.
Uh, my name is Joe Thompson and I'm the
only one here that does not live in
Kichi, but we own several properties
right over here. Is it Rock Point or
Rock Spring? I never
>> Rock Point.
And I want to talk about one
in particular because it's only three
years old. We bought it new in uh the
summer of 2023.
And I happen to have information uh
about two different points in time. But
before that goes in, we were talking I
think you and I about the tier system.
No, that was that was Thomas. Uh and I
need to talk to him about that.
Anyway, I was thinking it was you. I
don't remember.
>> Yeah. Um I want to talk about 2332
East Cheyenne Court.
right over here about two miles. And I
want to look at
the
July 2025 data and the July 2026 data.
Okay, that I'm doing this kind of slow.
The usage for the 2025 data was nine
9,000 gallons as I understand it. And
the total for the water just the water
was $116.15.
That's reasonable because you know some
of that water went into the uh into the
uh h house and so forth. Now then now I
want to talk about uh the one a year
later now. Also that house has been
vacant for a year. We haven't been
aggressive enough to get it ready to go.
We're real picky. I mean if my wife does
this and if she finds anything I I had
to stay outside.
All right. He's mean. Small but mean.
All right.
The uh
>> What's the matter? I'm trying to be
straight.
>> We can see her face.
>> Okay. The you the usage for July of this
year and nobody's living in there, okay,
is 15, not nine.
Now, let me also tell you, I'm the guy
that controls the sprinklers and I it is
year round. You know, once March gets
here, it starts up and then in October
or whenever we shut it down. But it is
the same pattern every time. There's uh
there's three circuits on it. The first
on both sides, okay, because it's a
duplex. And the first circuit runs for 8
minutes and it starts at 12:15 a.m. on
Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Okay. At
12:30 uh a.m. uh circuit 2 starts 8
minutes.
And then uh on circuit 3, it starts at
uh uh 12 uh 12:45 a.m. And guess what?
It's eight minutes on 2332 and for some
reason I've got it for 10 minutes on
2334.
All right, but I'm just talking about
2332 right now, but they're the same
basically
for
2026. For July 2026,
I had 15,000 gallons of usage.
That can't be right. And I have a
beautiful bill here for $21655.
That's that's almost exactly $100 more
than a year ago. And remember both the
both both times that includes the
domestic water that we use in the house.
Although for this last month and a half,
we haven't had a tenant. And be honest
with you, we haven't been very
aggressive about getting it because
we've got other things going on. So
there's not very much uh house water
being used, you know, other than, you
know, go to the bathroom there and
that's about it. Uh we don't cook
anything there. We don't make anything.
We don't run the dishwasher, uh blah blah. But and the uh and the the uh
landscaping, you know, the sprinkler
system, it ain't changed.
And anyway, so that's where we are. I
don't know what's going on, but when I
saw this 216 versus 116, I thought
that's wrong.
Something's crazy about this.
Anyway, uh for $500 a piece, I'll take
it and I'll be happy. So,
>> I have a question. I have a question for
you.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Um because I had to play with this a
little bit myself. We were on twice a
week watering last year. Is that
correct?
>> No.
>> Tuesdays and Thursdays last year?
>> I don't believe so.
>> Weren't we on that drought restriction
last year? Still two?
>> I thought we were.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I thought we were too. And
then this year we're allowed three days
a week.
>> So, did you change Do you know remember
if you changed your sprinkler?
>> Ma'am, my memory is about as long as my
little dog.
>> It's just Yeah, just just trying to just
figure things out.
>> I'm just trying to figure things out.
>> That's good. Um because I know that
because our our city sign was broken and
it was stuck telling people to water
only on Tuesdays and Thursdays for a
long time even though we had changed to
the new watering schedule. So I guess
there's a possibility that there could
be some water change there maybe if
you're going from watering two days to
three days but I don't know if it would
be that much of a difference. So, I was
just asking if you remember if you were
doing the two days a week last year.
>> To be honest with you, I don't remember.
>> Okay.
>> And and personally, and we have Bermuda
grass. I think that's kind of rare
around here. Okay. Everybody else,
>> my neighbor has it.
>> Uh, you know, uh, you know,
>> fescue.
>> Not fescue.
>> Yeah. Fescue.
>> You have fescue.
>> No, you have Bermuda on my duplexes that
we own in Bair.
>> Those are all fescue. And those are the
most luscious yards you've ever seen.
And guess what? It runs it it runs three
days a week or three nights a week. We
turn on right after midnight and it's
almost now there's four circuits there,
not three. It's a bigger lot.
>> And uh it it u
it you know it runs eight minutes and then I think nine and
then for the last one, the bigger
backyard, it's 10 minutes,
>> right? And it's and it's staying very
close to the $115 to $130 range.
>> Right.
>> Well, and then you also said that
there's no domestic water being used
inside the house.
>> Not not inside 23. You know, I say that
it's not that there's no because like I
said, we my wife and I might work on
something.
>> We're washing stuff and so it's not, you
know,
that dishwasher.
>> Yes. You know.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> Okay. I'm going to put out again. Is
there anyone else that hasn't spoken
that would like to speak?
>> Oh, wait one second. Wait one second,
Doug. Um,
>> Joe, I'd also encourage you to uh get a
hold of Thomas and make sure he checks
for a leak just in case there may be a
small leak in the
>> in inside or something.
>> I I'm I would still encourage you to uh
check the meter for have Thomas check
the meter for a link and make sure
nothing's turning.
Yeah, you should be electronic.
» Yeah. Okay.
>> Thank you, Doug.
» Doug Wan, 392 East Cheyenne Court. Um,
I I don't know if you guys can answer
this, but I I watched the news clip last
night, but then I watched it on the app,
channel 12 app,
>> and channel 12 left something out that
was on the app, and that was this the lady from CARG, whose water usage
went from 4,000 to 10,000.
And I want to know if anybody's looked
into that or has she come over here to
talk about that uh for no
They they they don't have they don't
have a yard. I'm sure they use water
inside, but the the jump I would hate to
lose car, okay, for that. And I I've had
a couple neighbors, not Pam and Todd,
that they want to sell their house if
this is going to keep up. And I told one
couple, well, you can sell it, but who's
going to want to move in if these water
rates are so high? And so I just I
didn't know if anybody has had a chance
to talk to Car yet or not.
Okay.
» She came tonight. She was here.
>> She was here for a while.
>> Okay.
» Right.
>> But I guess it's our fault. I guess it's
her fault. Okay. We're working through
this, Doug.
>> U and one last thing on freedom of
speech is internet. We are free to say
whatever we'd like on that.
>> Yes, you are. Thank you, Doug. Come on
up,
Andrea.
>> You're welcome.
>> Angela Lasage, 347 East Kodiak. Uh my
husband and I have lived in Kichai for
almost 16 years and we own a lovely
property that we have almost a half acre
and we do water our yard. Well, we did
water our yard until this week. My
husband yesterday shaved our backyard to
the ground and and it is going to stay
that way. We have shut our water system
off and and we two months ago, three
months ago, we had 22 usage
two two months in a row and then we had
15
uh when it rained because we didn't we
have a sensor. We had 36 this month. Our
water alone was $660ome dollars and yes,
we can pay that. But we have shut our
system off and we will not turn it on
next year. We are done. My husband's
ready to move.
But um
there is something wrong. And and we
know that the meter was read right
because we went out and looked and
looked at what it was this month before
we shut it off. We'd only used 12. So
because we have cut back because of the
fact that the um it's so hot that you
don't you're not doing much good anyway
except frying it. So, but um and so I am
reading it every day because there's
something that wasn't right. We've never
used 36,000. My daughter has a swimming
pool. It takes 22,000 gallons to fill
her pool. My husband said if we had
36,000 gallons that we used, we would
see something somewhere. And so when I'm
out there looking every day, I get down
there on my knees, pull up the thing.
Um, we have no leaks because it's not
going around. We know that. We know our
plumbing in our house is good. We have
no leaks. So, there is something that
has caused that spike. So, you know, we
I think we've had times in the past
we've even used 24, but 36
is incredible. So, that's all I Thank
you for listening. Um, I hope you guys
can find something that has caused that
those meters to spike. Um, because
there's several of us in the same same
neighborhood. U, but yet our neighbors
who said they expected their bill to be
very high because they had watered uh
every every opportunity that they had
for the three three days. um theirs went
down and they were like and they said,
"Well, how'd your skies go spike up that
much?" And I was like, "We have no
idea." But uh anyway, uh we will not
turn our meter on. I hope the city
doesn't send us their nasty notes next
year on doing our backflow because we're
not turning it on. We'll we'll do some
sprinkling in the front yard with hand
sprinklers, but until until there's some
kind of resolution, it's it's ridiculous
to pay that kind of water rate. Thank
you.
>> You're welcome.
>> Thank you. Okay, one last call. Is there
anyone else that wants to speak before?
>> Yes, you may
to Matt.
Let's say that you're
correct.
>> Okay. Is there anyone else? I I I just
have it hasn't spoken already. Um I
don't see anybody else. Um, I would just
like to ask for who is attending. Is
there anyone here who has a high water
bill that they did not report it to the
city?
Okay. So, we've we've got we've got more
that have not reported to the city. So,
just even in attendance.
>> Yes. But not for your new one. Okay. So,
I have one other person that contacted
me directly, and this comment is out on
social media, so anyone can see it, and
I'm actually going to read it because
this bill was so outrageous that I was
like, I I can't wrap my head around
this. Um, their previous reading was six
and then it was 62.
So,
this account holder found out that for
several months there was zero reading on
their bill and a few with just one.
There seems to be an issue with them
referring to the city reading the meters
correctly. Um,
I know this is an issue that has
happened before and obviously it got I
guess their bill I I don't know. The
only thing I can think of is it got
caught back up or something. Um,
and I know that the city has talked
about one of the reasons they took
announcements off the utility bills is
because people don't read their bills.
and the people that made this comment,
I know who they are and are usually very
attentive to detail.
And I think that there's a lot of people
who get their bill, they see how much it
is, and they just write their check or
they just pay it, and they're not
necessarily looking at it because it's
generally about the same. Um, I was very
shocked that this detail got missed, but
however, it does tell me that there was
at least one bill out there that had not
been reading the water readings. Um, and
so that is another anomaly in the middle
of all of these bills. And so I guess
part of my question is have we
investigated the system to make sure
this wasn't happening to at least the 28
that there was not some time where their
bill was coming in at zero or one and
people had not looked at their bill to
see that they did not get a correct
read. Has that been investigated? Yeah,
I just
» only one account because we just had
this happen a few months ago where the
council just
>> there was 20 17 or 20 accounts that that
had been happening to.
» But they weren't built. That's not
>> But they weren't build for their water
usage,
>> but we had still paid for it.
>> Let me just
because that had gone on for 20 months
>> because Yep. So,
>> yeah, I think it was the MIU the
electronic.
» Okay.
>> Yeah, let me look back.
>> But so, could then could this have been
one of those that got missed in that?
>> I can't.
>> Okay. cuz um this person also phoned me
regarding her situation
>> um and asked me
um if it is found that we were not
properly billing them
in the past so that it wasn't recording
correctly how much water they were being
used regularly
um whether it was the MIU or the meter
or what was being recorded versus build.
And now because we did a manual read, it
was a catchup for all those months,
would they be eligible to be charged at
the lower tiered rate because the lower
tiered rate was actually what they were
using? And then all of a sudden, we're
playing catchup and we're charging them
at the highest tier that we possibly
can. And I think that based on what we
have done in the past that and I told
her I would bring it to she had a
previous engagement and couldn't come
this evening
that I would I thought that we would
honor that. I told her I can't speak for
the council but given our past um what
we had done when that previous situation
happened that we did
>> figure out what the average usage is.
>> Yeah,
I think that's what
So, another question I had and I
requested it um was that do we have the
ability to run an unusual consump
consumption report that would identify
how many accounts had an unusual high
usage for the month of July and so far
I've been told no that cannot happen. I
don't I have to ask
>> I would think with the software that we
have that's information that any utility
should be able to have that information
available um for all all of those reads
that how many had an unusual consumption
for the month of July and that the city
should be able to identify how many
meters read exceptionally high that it's
not their normal
um
consumption use um in a month. Um
the other question did and you might
have said this um my understanding is
that there was a problem with reading
last month and it was all read manually.
So have we gone back to make sure that
the manual recording
is the same as what's recorded on each
account? Okay. and have we gone back to
the meter to make sure the meter lines
up with what was recorded for each of
those reads. Okay, so that's already
happened.
Um,
so a question I do have with this
billing anomaly is I was made aware that
our Witchita meter for the total city
use
um, it nearly matched the collective
billing for the month of July,
but there was an anomaly in there that
would not have been included in part of
that reading. So I guess I would like to
see
the
Witchita what's been built from Witchah
to the city actually over at least three
or four months and what was collectively
build to all of our meters to see is
everything matching up and I I'm asking
for that for accountability to the
public at this point.
>> Can I follow up with that?
>> Go ahead. I know when I was in that
position, I kept a spreadsheet that
showed that so we could see the
anomalies on both um what the city
build for water and what the city was
build for water. I did the same for
sewer so that we could see those. Is
that spreadsheet do you know still being
maintained?
>> I don't have a yes or no for you.
>> Okay.
part of that.
» So that's
» so well I just was mentioning it because
then that if we had that spreadsheet it
would have because we actually have two
water meters coming from Witchah.
>> Okay.
>> I guess of an overall picture though
there may be individual anomalies but
presented earlier was there's we use
three as as a community we use three
million more gallons than we did the
previous month.
>> So there may be some
>> previous year excuse me.
>> Um so
>> no it was million large level everything
that's going out is the same as what
were coming in. So we've got something
going on. It's not like
>> one of them isn't matching up.
>> No,
>> there may be little anomalies and all
the distribution side,
>> but we're bringing in that much.
>> So, we're using it someplace. I mean, I
shouldn't say it's going through the
meters
>> and there should be some anomalies
because of when if we're reading on the
1st through the 4th, our meters that
from Witchah aren't necessarily being
read on the same day. They are in fact
like I said we have two meters coming
from Witchah. So they are not being read
necessarily on the same day. It was also
how we found out we had a sewer problem
because we started tracking that and
saying whoa why how how do we have so
much more water going back to Witchah
>> every time it rained.
we had
infiltration. But if we keep track of
that that's how we find those things.
So, um, how many do you know how many
meters we have that are not being
electronically read that are not on
center?
>> I don't have
>> I think Thomas in the meeting this week
said he needs to replace 300 still. So,
I'm guessing that basically 300 are not
the that would be a good estimate
probably.
>> Yeah. So about 300 would need to be
replaced before we can open up the
Zenner monitoring system.
>> Okay. Um
so when and I know that most of you guys
had problems with usage but the tier
system um got brought up as well. So I
was not on council when this current one
um was adopted. So my question would be
were the the tiers that we use are those
similar to the tiers that Witchah uses
or were those ones that were recommended
from the um water rate study?
» So but I'm but so in the water rate
study is is that what was recommended to
the council? No, the
>> No. And I'll I'll I want to speak to
that. So I
>> Okay.
>> What what the water wise or water guys
>> Great rates some great rates.
>> Great rates.
>> Yeah. Great rates.
>> What they recommended was the three tier
system. And I asked for a lower tier to
be put in the 0ero to 5,000
so that people on
in, you know, very small households that
are really struggling, we could get them
a lower rate because everything of the
three existing tiers that we've had was
going up. So I asked Matt if he could go
back, have them rerun it at a lower tier
for essential use only. And I understand
5,000 is not that much,
>> but it's for the essential use only that
people who are really struggling can get
the lowest rate possible.
In response to that, we had to raise the
higher tier. So if you're going over
25,000,
that's part of that reason. So
part of what I asked for, but we did go
from three tiers to four tiers.
>> Thank you.
>> Sure. Go ahead.
» July of 25.
>> Yeah.
>> And I'm pretty sure it was July of 25.
>> Yeah. because I actually asked if the
escalation rate was going to go up
August 1st after the new rates got put
into effect last year and it was no. You
didn't have an extra 3% last year. So, one one of the thing I would like to
say really quick is that I attended the
Kansas Water Office local consult today
and I talked someone sitting beside me
was from
a utility
company and has been in the utility
business for many many many years.
And in the discussion,
because of the news story, it's already
out all over the place that Kichi has
this high water issue going on with
their bills.
This person said it's almost impossible
for a town of our size to suddenly use 3
million gallons more water. Um
especially when 2400 actually includes
Sunnydale and they're on rule water one.
So that just I would I personally would
like an investigation of the whole
system
because it's is such a strange
issue that has come up. 28 is a start.
There's way more than 28 people that
have this big huge spike. And it's like
I think the citizens need
to see that the city's going to do
everything possible to show them that
we care and that we want to do
everything we possibly can to make sure
something didn't happen. Some software
glitch. Was there some cyber attack? Was
there I I don't know. I mean, are these
really I mean, are these water uses
really like we can't we literally can't
explain them and nothing can be found at
all.
» And that that will be a council
decision.
>> Yes.
» Okay. Hang on, guys. Hang on. Let Let
him Let him speak. Hang on.
I've already asked them and that is
possibility
totally up to us but we need to see
>> okay
>> we've already
>> Okay.
» Yes. Okay.
>> Okay. So PEC is our regularly contracted
engineering company for the city of
Kichi. So they know us. So anyway, I'm
just going to put that out there. I'm
going to let council continue to discuss
the matter.
>> Um, so
I know that um, residents are as a whole
make up a great portion of our water
use, but we also have several our
highest water users are industrial and
commercial. So do we know what their
rate I mean their usage increased over
that same period of time? so that we can
compare um what were the what was the
consumption amounts by customer type.
» Awesome.
>> Well, I know that.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Well,
>> a question.
>> Okay. No, I I know that we can do the
report. I just want to know the data
from it. I mean, because I'll be honest.
I know Debbie knows that we have to have
some of that just to file our monthly
sales tax. We have to know different
rates because of because of that.
>> Maybe asking have any of the 28 been
commercial?
>> Oh, I and I wasn't worried about that.
What I'm worried because
>> they have such high volume.
>> They have a very high volume before they
move up to a tier. So, for instance, it
was what 100,000 gallons is up to
100,000 gallons is their first tier. And
I understand that they use water um for
their production and things like that.
and that's how they make money. But I
also know that um when they're watering
their grass, are they being held to the
same standard of conserving water for
their for their lawns as we are for our
residents? So for instance, meter
engineers, how much of their water bill
is for their irrigation versus how much
of their water bill is for um production
because I know that I mean they a lot of
times there's two separate meters or
there had been in the past. So when I
think of how much water is being used,
do we have that information that we So
when we look at that 3 million and I
know that like you said that's a big
anomaly, but how much of that is coming
from
I mean Valley Floral has got to use I
mean they use a lot of water because
they're plant-based that okay they have
plants they not
>> um when when we go wash our cars more KI
car wash is going to use more water and
I know that I So, I just want to see,
you know, where is is is some of that
feeding into that. I did have a qu I did
write a question about making sure we're
running a zero consumption in our high
usage reports. Um, we've talked about
the watering restrictions and um are we
enforcing
um the watering restrictions? What are I
mean
» okay
>> during the day
» and that was something we talked about
too where that could end up with a door
hanger and just saying hey reminder
Monday Wednesday only between
>> 10 before 10 or after six
>> and I one of my um like I said those
were some of my questions
Um,
and again, like I said with the social
media, I understand and and I'm going to
say, yeah, when Mr. Jensen saying he's
not going to go investigate social media
to see where the complaints are coming
from, we need to make sure the
complaints are coming to hear when you
have them. Yes.
>> However,
and yes, it is definitely free speech
and I encourage that because I think
that there's a lot of you who felt like,
is this only me?
and and you had a different reaction
when he's like, "Okay." And I know
several of you came in and talked to him
and said, "Hey, I found out or I didn't
find out and I still really want to know
what's going on and we really want you
to know what's going on because like I
said, whether I mean I mine is stay
steady. I am two units. My husband and
I, we do not water because I have a big
yard and I say God waters it when he
wants it green and otherwise my I still
have to mow it. Well, we don't I don't
get that. But um so we that we're just a
household of two. So we are in that
lower tier. Um
but I also know that those leaks happen.
We've had it where it was the toilet
that leaked that flapper. It it made a
big difference. So, um, I want you guys
to know that keep keep talking to each
other. Keep being a community because we
need to come together. And even if we're
only coming together on social media, we
need to come together. We need to feel
like we're out there that we I'm glad to
hear that your neighbors were out
talking to each other. I'm sorry it was
about this and not about, you know,
>> doing a rain dance so we get some rain.
But, um, yeah. So, make sure you're
letting us know. City, whether it's city
council, city hall, we want to hear from
you. We want to hear your concerns.
That's what we're about.
>> So, and I I do want to I hope that we
can get some some satisfactory answers.
Um I know we had already I had one on
here about how are meters tested? Um
that's been answered. So, but I think my
biggest one is, you know, what do we
need to do to work together to instill
confidence
>> back to you guys that that you are what you're being charged is reflective
of what you used?
» Okay.
>> I've been waiting.
>> Sorry. So, um, I asked as asked Matt
this afternoon to put together that map
of where the usage was because I've
talked to Thomas a couple times and he's
telling me I'm barking up the wrong
tree, but of all the people in here, who all is in Prairie Creek area
and and everybody's was hired, right?
Has And I know,
>> right? I I know it's not I know there's
others. I'm just saying it seems like a
majority
>> like a cluster.
>> Um
>> has anybody and I know this is a
completely subjective question but I'm
not giving up on it. Has anybody noticed
increased pressure
or better not in this case but better
water pressure
the last six monthsish?
It
>> less. Okay. I on our side over here I
noticed ours was was higher
>> and Thomas assured me that no the
pressure is the same. The reason I asked
is I was thinking okay if the pressures
went up
>> then you know those are free flowing
meters they just meter what's going if
your if your pressure goes up and you're
watering for the same amount of time
then more is going to go through. So I
was thinking maybe
» Go ahead and come up to the mic so that
we can hear what happened.
>> It's okay.
» We already know.
>> I know. We had a situation that
happened.
>> Help me.
>> Two days ago.
Okay. Four o'clock in the
morning. Watering time.
Doug waters in the morning at three. We
I think Todd did his at three. Did do
you did you water?
whatever Clint does his. And we had the
most unusual thing. My husband woke up
at four o'clock. I didn't want to say
this because it's gonna say you're gonna
say, "Oh, that's what's going on." No,
it's not. But we had the most unusual
thing happened. He jumps out of bed,
heard something. It was our backflow pre
blue. I mean, I don't know how to say
it. Just it came apart. We thought first
somebody was tampering with it. But not
only did ours do that, but so did Sue's
behind us.
And then so did
>> Ricky
did the same thing.
>> Yeah.
>> All in the same time period.
>> You guys told Thomas that?
>> No,
>> not yet.
>> Because I didn't want to find any more
about water.
>> Well, those are
>> But I'm going to tell you something. It
all happened in about a three to
whatever period. And my husband said,
who's an engineer and like I said, he's
smart, right? Well, and that is what
that is why he posted about air in the
line.
>> Yes. And he says because of Park City.
But the thing is is something happened.
We know something happened. He went out
there, shut our system down first. And
he was mad. I mean, we're getting all
new security, you know, but it he said,
"I don't think it's that. It's a
something's clean here. We didn't file a
police report.
>> Snapped
>> it. It's it came out. It just came out."
But Sue had a or my neighbor behind us
that I won't tell you her name. She had
uh a new system put in just recently.
Clint went over and was talking to her.
Right, April? Me here and and she had
the same situation going on. Then he
calls Ricky Bobby and find out that he's
had a problem all and they that says
it's that is so rare for that to happen.
So yes, I think there was a pressure
some
>> all the valves blew.
>> Well, those are the pieces of the puzzle
we need to know about to help,
>> right?
>> But do you understand why we didn't?
>> Okay, that's why because we don't listen
to
>> I'm sorry, but that's exactly what it
is.
>> I know. I know. I
>> That's why that's why people won't
because when they hear that it's their
fault, they're like, well, they aren't
listening to us and so they don't want
to share anymore.
So, and it is something we have to
rebuild trust, which is why I do believe
we need an independent investigation.
>> And it's and I mean, I get PEC knows our
system, but yet at the same time, it's
like putting it out for bid for someone
to come in and do the investigation.
>> I find I don't I don't know. PEC's who
we ask for engineering questions
obviously because we're contracted with
them. I don't know if they have that
specialty, but
>> I think that that that's exactly why I
was asking that question is because to
me
>> it makes sense.
>> A bit of an engineering brain. I'm not
an engineer, but I pretend to be one.
>> But to me, it's there's so many usage
increases.
>> Now, I we also have to all acknowledge
that I I beg you guys, do not compare
your usage to 2025. Correct. 2025 was
wonderful. I hardly ran my sprinkler
system at all. Grass was green. It was
cool. It was wet. Okay. But going back
to 2024, 2023 and looking at those
usages, I think is valid.
>> Yes.
>> Um but
>> what's that?
>> I
>> Well, but what I'm saying is
>> Yeah.
>> That That's what I'm That's what
Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
>> But that's that's the point. I I
apologize if I'm not communicating it
properly, but that's the point I'm
trying to make is the usage is up. I mean, we see it on
the intake side, right?
>> And we see it on the output side. So,
the usage is really up. So, to me, in my
simple brain, if you're running at an
increased pressure, then you're flowing
more. That that's the way
water works. And and
so if we're popping valves,
maybe there is something that we're
having pressure spikes at night when things are running because that's
when I run mine, too,
>> right?
>> But maybe that pressure is spiking
>> because, you know, nobody in Witchaw is
using I don't know.
>> Maybe it's a possibility. Would Thomas
have access to that kind of data on the
pressures or does it have to
>> He told me he told me there's no change
in our pressure but Thomas isn't
measuring the middle of the night. He
goes and looks and says that but I don't
know if we have that data.
>> Well, we had the water study that we
that he
>> that they gave us recently that talked
about the different times in the peak
hours and what the what the spikes were.
Right.
>> But I don't I think it's worth
investigating. Okay. Do we have
>> Yeah.
>> pressure spikes? Are we having an
increased system pressure that
everything is flowing more?
>> Yeah.
>> Well, and I think one of the things for
me personally because we have an
irrigation well and we have a lot of air
in our well line that it spits out a lot
of air before it gets to water. I don't
normally have that in my city hose line,
but I have noticed this summer if I use
my regular hose, I have a lot more air
in my hose line. So, and to my house
that hooks up to city water. Yeah.
Because I have two spets that are city
water, but I have noticed I'm having
more air and it's like when it starts
up, it's like I'm getting a lot of air
through it. And I'm like, what in the
world is happening in my city line
because my well line does that getting
going, but my city line doesn't usually
do that. So, it's just something I
noticed this summer. And I will say kind
of piggybacking on what Todd said that I
did when when I asked you guys I said
what is your historic usage and I said
and don't look at one year because we
have one year on the on the bill right
>> look back if you have that kind of
information and I know some people keep
their bills and some people as soon as
you write the check and it clears it's
gone. Um like I said I I heard Dennis
say he had 25 years worth of bills. Um I
think my husband has about 22 2
12 years. I don't know when he he we
every once in a while I'm like, "Okay,
we don't need that anymore. We're we're
good with it." But it is good to look
back and say, "What has changed?"
Because I can guarantee you that when my
three kids moved out, yeah, my water
went down. But looking at those and
being able to kind of say, "Oh yeah,
last year was a was a rainy year. We
didn't have to run the sprinkler where
the year before when the water
restrictions were very first put into
place." Yeah. What did that compare to?
So that but we when we have that to look
at and if you don't and I think that's
what the city staff was was trying to
help provide so that you could get that picture.
So I know that that's important. I do
also when we're talking about looking at
the system, I do think we need to look
to make sure that between the electronic
reads and the utility billing that there
isn't something. I mean, I know that
there's there has been times where a new
meter gets put in and the truncation for
some reason didn't get switched
correctly in it. But then those are your
oneoffs, not a systemwide. but just to
make sure that we're we're checking in
and doing our due diligence for you.
>> So, council, I guess we're at a point. I
think we've discussed this pretty well.
Um, I'm going to put it out to you. Are
you in agreement? Would you like to see
an independent investigation happen for
the system? Okay.
>> Yes.
>> All right. Do we need a motion for that?
>> No. Well, we'll continue.
>> I'm just just asking what we need.
and then look for
>> something.
>> Yep. And put it out for bid. So, that's
where we are tonight, folks. I'm sorry
we can't answer all your questions, but
that is where we are tonight. We are
going to work on it and we will continue
to communicate. We can even put updates
out um if there's something in between
meetings. We the city can put out an
update if there's something that they
have to share. Um otherwise, it would
potentially be brought up at the next
council meeting. So,
>> are we good? Thank you all so much. And
you know what? Thank you for being
respectful. Thank you for
>> sharing what you needed to share. And
even though you're angry, that you
really did it respectfully. And I'm
really, really thankful for all of you.
» Well, it will eventually. It's going to
take some time. Um, you know, we are
going to resolve it tomorrow, but it's
like what? Well, let let's talk about
the Matt. I think one of the things you
said was um or maybe mention to me, but
everybody checking your meter, which I
do
>> regularly, but checking your meter at
the first of the month. I know I know
we've talked about it's kind of we're
into it.
>> Make sure you make sure you check that.
Um, I've honestly I've experienced this
a lot of times is like every every year
I get my July water bill and I'm
shutting off the sprinklers because I we
could we used to have a well when we
lived before and it was wonderful. But
so I I get it. But we are we are very
much looking to try to find what's
wrong. And I guess I would request,
could we go ahead and put something out
to the community on the Facebook page or
even the website that says if you have
not reported a high water bill for July,
please contact city hall.
I would really appreciate that. So we
can try to and you know if you have
neighbors around you or you haven't
reported um you don't necessarily have
to come into city hall. You could just
call, right? Okay. So if if it's easier
just to call please so we can get as
many of these high bills recorded as
possible and get your neighbors to do
the same thing so we can get a better
picture of what is happening. So thank
you everybody
>> and if anybody hears anything else about
spikes or spike issues or
>> or valves
>> or valve blowing please let Thomas let
city know let Thomas know as soon as
possible because that might that might
be part of the puzzle.
Okay, we have a little bit of city
business to finish. And if you guys want
to take off, please feel free to go.
Have a wonderful evening. What?
>> You don't want to hang out? Oh my gosh.
>> Thank you for enduring this far.
>> Thank you.
>> Okay, we have three pretty quick last
items.
» Whoops.
>> And if you could do me a favor, if you
guys want to chat, just chat outside so
we can finish up, please.
Okay. So, we're going to move on to the
next item. PEC inspection contract.
Young industrial fourth water and sewer.
>> Council, this is an inspection agreement
for the Young Industrial Fourth, which
is the SEAL lab project.
The cost of this will be paid through
the temp notes that were issued for that
project.
It's the city's assurance that things
are being installed correctly when it
comes to the water.
» Any questions, council? If not, I would
entertain a motion.
>> I move we approve the PEC inspection
agreement as presented and authorize the
mayor to sign.
>> Second motion by council member
Headstrom, second by council member
Baldridge. All in favor?
>> I. Motion passes 300.
Moving on to budget hearing publication
authorization.
>> Council, like we discussed at the budget workshop, uh we need to
publish the budget hearing for September
10th as part of the budget process. This
is not adopting the budget. This is just
publishing
So I guess this is also a discussion if
you're only doing one or if you're also
adding in the revenue neutral rate
hearing.
>> Yeah.
The direction we felt we were given like
» budget which we've been working on and
that's
lower our mill levy by 1.5.
Okay.
>> So, is it what what was the 4%?
>> Well, I guess I should
>> Is it Well, no.
>> Taking it down to
>> Excuse me.
>> You said it was a 4.14 said it was a
4.1% reduction and you're saying it's a
1% reduction.
>> Or do you mean one mil?
>> One. Okay. You said percent.
>> 1.5. Okay. I That's where
>> mills.
>> Okay. So down 1.5 mills to okay
>> revenue neutral rate.
>> Yes. Okay. But I just it's like wait a
minute. Okay. I'm hearing things.
Okay. So 1.5
mills.
I mean I know personally
>> I was in favor of the revenue neutral
rate.
Um,
I was concerned when I found out there's
could be a potential of sales tax
difference and that's why we asked for
that information and and we don't have
it.
>> It's not available.
>> So,
um,
I don't know. It's up to council
>> whether we want to consider just leaving
the flat for now and having a revenue
neutral rate hearing giving us time to
make sure we have that information or
>> I'm I'm not opposed to it but anything
everything is said
again it's forecasting so we don't know
what exactly happen
>> I can't I didn't hear anything that
would make me change my position to
raising
I'm pretty comfortable with
>> Okay.
>> If if you absolutely want that. I I
guess I'm just gonna say I I just
>> I would have liked to have known what
that what that amount looks like when we're looking at the sales tax
because our sales tax is a healthy
portion
um of what we get because we're looking
at a total of between the um the state
sales tax, the local sales tax because
I'm not going to throw the liquor tax
into that, but we're looking at right
Now that's just under a million dollars.
from what he said.
It's like someone like said is it is it
gonna I I'm just I don't know if it if
it drops the same percentage because
when I looked up the formula, it's going
to be our assess. It's it's a it is a
ratio of of what the county um property
tax is and what ours is. And so if ours
is
>> you said theirs is 400,000 and they
would be a very small percentage of
that.
>> Yeah, their their overall loss was going
to be projected to be around 600,000 a
little over 600,000.
>> So So we're just a percent of that 600
600,000. So
>> going forward, I would like us to find
out what that formula is so that in the
future that if we do this again in the
future that it's it's something that we
actually can forecast pretty well to be
like, okay, we know that we have the
possibility of losing this much money in
sales tax because this is what we're
choosing to do.
>> And I mean,
yeah, I'm like I said, I was I'm all for
the revenue neutral rate. I voted
against increasing it to begin with. So
>> y
>> I just was asking the questions because
at that point in time I didn't know that
the sales tax would be imp impacted or
to what degree. So
>> I'm fine and if we can live with it.
>> So we're just doing the one hearing
then. Is that correct?
>> Okay. Okay. So do we just need a motion
to approve that to authorize
publication?
>> Okay.
I move we approve the budget hearing
publication authorization
>> as presented.
>> Presented.
>> Oh, did you second it? Okay.
>> Motion by council member Headstrom,
second by council member Baldridge. All
in favor?
>> I. Motion passes 30.
>> Okay. Moving on to item DLKM. Voting
delegate.
>> Mayor and council. This was the mayor
had asked us to put this on at the last
minute. I've looked into it just a
little bit, uh, discussed it internally
with staff. Um, I guess what I would ask until we get a
little more information on this. We have
council designate that person.
» Do we have enough time to still make the
deadline?
>> The deadline.
>> Okay. Okay. Yeah. I don't know if anyone
else I mean you have to attend the
conference in order to be a delegate for
your city.
>> So I don't know if anybody else is
registered to go.
>> No, I just And was this a this was a
last minute ad?
>> It was a last minute ad.
>> Okay. Because I was going to say yeah, I
didn't have any information on it. So So
that our city has representation in
voting on policy.
>> So okay. So do you need a motion to
table it or is this tabled?
>> Okay. So a motion to table. I make a
motion that we table the LKM voting
delegate.
>> Motion by council member Morland, second
by council member Hedstrom. All in
favor?
>> I.
>> Motion passes 30. Moving on to council
reports, discussion and requests. Um I
brought up several things with the CIP
last time and
I guess I feel like there's no
clarification on how we're actually
moving forward with this. There's been
no discussion with council whether we're
leaving it as is. Are we going to work
on this document? Um because I mean I
heard
Thomas share that he doesn't really need
his items in here until he finds out
what's happening with the public works
facility. So, um, and then there was
questions about
a sidewalk master plan, which is in for
next year. We already have a sidewalk
plan with the arts and business district
as well as the corridor improvements.
So, there's there's just questions about
what should be included.
>> I think the important thing to remember
with the
use it
We do anything toast.
Well, it usually you'll utilize the CIP
for determining what plans you're going
to pursue. So,
it's it is a living document, but at the
same time, you are identifying specific
projects or
equipment that you are planning, that's
why this is all planned out to purchase
at certain times. So I guess for me with
the corridor improvement and the
sidewalk master plan to me
that would be like arts and business
district phase two. I mean it wouldn't
be broken. We don't need a sidewalk
master plan. We already have one and all
we that would be are we going to change
it to monies for PEC to design the next
phase. So, I'm saying to me this does
not represent necessarily what we are
looking at for our future planning for
capital improvement for all of these
items.
>> What would you like us to adjust?
» I guess I can state it again. Um, the
corridor improvement and the sidewalk
master plan, that's the arts and
business district phase two
and that would be pursuing WMO funding
grants. But I also asked a question
earlier in the budget workshop. We don't
have an idea yet of when the first phase
is going to be paid. When are we going
to start paying for it and when is the
forecast of when it's going to be paid
off? Yes, we're going to start working
potentially on phase two,
but we have to know when monies are
going to be available and how to
forecast when that's feasible with the
1% sales tax. So, and I know that for
not I don't know or we don't know what
is our current balance.
>> No, with our with our 1% what is the
balance in that fund?
» I don't know.
>> Okay. Well, it just
>> provide that.
» Okay. I I
» was always more than we expected.
» That's why it's like can we pay it off
like in three years? I mean is that
going to be a fast payoff if you know
the sales tax keeps coming in and it's
like if that's the case it's like well
we need to start thinking about the next
phase then.
>> I mean I see the the sales tax that we
receive
but Is it split out?
>> No, that's not that's that's
>> that's what I keep asking for is to
split out. So that's that is not
because it is um it is a separate fund
>> right he's he's giving I just he has
shared with it separately
>> remember is that it's always comes in
higher
>> right
>> well and that's where
>> and the reason I'm bringing that up is
because we know that that the temporary
the temp note for that comes due this
year.
>> So, how much of that, and I know that's
going to be a discussion for a later
date, but it's also a discussion while
we're looking at budget, is how much of
that are we going to spend
on reducing the amount of the bond
overall?
>> So, right now, we're saying, okay, this
is how much the bond is going to cost,
but how much and how much can we do? We
do need to look at that. And so that's
where when I looked through here, I did
not find
the the line that shows the city portion
of the sales tax only. I mean, like I
said, the sales tax, the general sales
tax on the front,
that is not the 1% collected by the
city.
» And without
» well and and
>> so I and I guess that's where I
>> that's where I'm struggling
>> when we're looking forward to it and and
knowing that's part of our CIP that I
mean and it's not mentioned on the CIP
document that sales tax is even a part
of where that funding is going to come
from.
>> Great. Um, the other thing that I would
ask is when we have I know that we set
the parks by policy, but just like we
estimate, I would like to see an
estimate of how much annual goes in
there just like we have the annual for
the highway. So we have an amount
because I mean
I I I just I don't know how much that
and and I understand that this because
this is a living document that is just
going to be an estimate
>> but it would be good to see an estimate
there for the spending instead of just
well that's policy and I know it's going
to change based on the mill late mill
rate because it's based on the mill rate
but to have basically a general idea.
Um,
and then I'm I know that we have that
patrol vehicle
in there for 2027
and we had talked about as a council
>> not having a replacement vehicle until
2028.
>> And I
Okay.
» So, how do we make
» this?
>> And do we have a That's why we have
equipment reserve,
>> right? Does the police department have
an an equipment reserve
>> that they're building?
So, how do we
>> take it off?
>> No, I I'm just asking how are we
building how is that fund being built?
Because like the next time we say that
there's not going to be another one
until 2031.
>> So,
>> well, it was supposed to be
>> it says it said 28 and 31.
>> 28 and 31
>> and they're changing it to 27 and 31.
» I guess so. I'm asking how are we so
public works has built an equipment fund
for many years. So how how are we
building an equipment reserve fund then
for the police department and what is
being budgeted annually to go in there?
That's a question that I have.
>> Okay.
that. So, and then when we talked about
the public works, I mean, Thomas said
that if if we're going to do an
assessment,
he wouldn't be considering considering
any equipment until a decision is like
made after the assessment is done for
the utilities. So, it's like or that for
the potential facility. And so it's like
I mean I guess I heard him that he's
sort of just in a pause until
that occurs. So he's not planning to
move forward with purchasing any
equipment at this time. He even talked
about being able to rent something in
the meantime. So I guess this has to go
to the planning commission. I just want
to make sure we are presenting to the
planning commission for review and
approval prior to it coming back to the
council and that it reflects what the
council's actually looking
>> at.
Thomas
figured out what he
» took all the all of them off.
>> Well, the multi-use machine.
>> Oh, because he talked about even the
brine. I thought he said he wouldn't do
anything until
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
And then I think we just have
generalities regarding the sewer and
water system improvements. It's like
are are we going to seek PEC to help us
work on some stage information so that
we have some idea of general costs
>> per potential expansion of the sewer and
water systems? Like I I just feel like
those are general numbers and it they're
going to be bonded out and it's like we
don't really have anything specific that
we're talking about.
>> So is and is that sewer improvement? So
that is not um sewer expansion that is
only sewer.
>> It says increased capacity.
>> So that well I I know but is that
>> increasing the capacity for the
infrastructure we currently have
>> or expanding the the infrastructure for
new development?
» Okay.
We need we need to have a plan
what we're looking
>> okay
>> so we're not saving towards that like we
are we like we do with the with the um
>> street
>> the streets
because the $50,000 so like on woodlon
overlay
that's $50,000 per year that we're
putting into it. So, I would ask that if
it's something that we are putting in
annually to build that fund that we
noted on here that way. So, like like I
said, for instance, that one, yeah,
we're putting $50,000 per year every
year because we know we're going to have it coming and we want something
saved up. Um, and the the same with the
park that that is how much is and I know
it says annual at the beginning, but
like the woodlon overlay, yes, we expect
to do it in 2031, but we are still
putting in $50,000 per year until that
time and we have been for a while.
» I guess how did you determine the
numbers for sewer and water?
>> I guess that's a question I have.
Okay.
And so
what is your thinking of Yeah. like not
trying to start building a fund up for
that? I know that had been talked about
a few years ago. Um that that was when a
large mill increase was proposed.
» Okay.
Okay.
So, is there a way that we can put in
here that yes, we that because we expect
a regular replacement for the vehicle to
be in 2028,
but still have something for a
contingency
because I feel like if we look at this
and it says, hey, we're getting a new
police car in 2027,
then we're like, okay, when do we get
the police car in 2027? And that's
actually part of our plan. that said I
mean that we are replacing a vehicle in
2027.
I would almost um
like wanted to say only in case of an
emergency. I mean I don't know. I just I
feel like we are not we as a council
said that 2028 was the next time we
wanted to replace a vehicle. But yes, if
something happens and we have to come up
with it, I don't want it to not be
available, right? But I don't want it to
feel like, oh yes, this is the plan and
we're going to because that's not what
we intended the plan to be.
>> We would have to approve it anyway.
» We haven't had to approve the
>> CIP for the sake of this discussion. We
can change that
>> have it at 28 knowing that there's the
it will be money is there
>> and if something happens. Okay, that
like I said I would Yeah, that
>> one.
>> We're planning on buying one in 28 and
hopefully nothing happens that we need
to but
>> Okay. So,
» anything else council?
So this has to go
>> the planning commission prior. So
>> two days before the
>> but well those those changes will be on
what they see.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> Okay.
>> If there is nothing else I would you
have anything else?
>> I thought I had a question.
» Um I'm I'm questioned now. I'll ask when
I come back up to it. Okay. I would then
entertain a motion to adjurnn. Please. I
make a motion to adjurnn. Second.
>> Motion by council member Baldridge,
second by council member Hedstrom. All
in favor?
>> I.
>> Motion passes 300. We are adjourned.
Thank you everyone. Have a lovely
evening. Thank you all for coming.
Today's not looking like it's
Yes, it's
» well that's where so I will say a a
toilet flapper
bring
my keys.
>> No, not a I mean, so a flapper being
left open though.
>> It is. It's going straight down and
>> Yeah. And if it's like so like we have a
we have the bathroom that Chris and I
use.