[1:19] Okay,
[1:21] good evening. The time is
[1:24] 6 o'clock. It is August 27th and I'm
[1:27] calling this meeting back to order.
[1:30] Debbie, can you please call roll
[1:34] » here?
[1:44] » City administrator Jinsby or Matt Lawn,
[1:48] you are on council. Tonight, the
[1:50] workshop that we have tonight will just
[1:52] kind of be a culmination of what we have
[1:54] discussed over previous meetings and
[1:56] during previous workshops,
[1:59] excuse me, input that we've received
[2:00] from the council through our goal
[2:03] setting exercises.
[2:05] Uh Matt Lawn is here to present it at
[2:07] the end of this and meeting
[2:12] will ask you to authorize publication.
[2:23] In no way are we approving the budget.
[2:26] All that we will do this
[2:30] for September
[2:34] this year because we have been able to
[2:36] reduce our budgets
[2:38] levy and maintain rate.
[2:47] Only need a hearing.
[2:57] I guess when was that decided?
[2:59] >> Yes,
[2:59] >> we haven't even gone through the budget.
[3:01] So I I don't I'm asking the question of
[3:04] >> we haven't approved what we're
[3:07] >> we haven't gone through the budget to
[3:08] determine whether that is what we're
[3:13] doing or it's not what we're doing. We
[3:15] haven't been presented with anything to
[3:17] really go through and determine is
[3:20] everything in the budget what we want or
[3:22] are there changes that need to be made.
[3:24] So basically we're just going in blind.
[3:28] >> Tell me what I'm
[3:32] answer.
[3:36] So,
[3:37] >> well, one thing we're missing is we
[3:39] asked last meeting um what would happen
[3:43] to our tax
[3:45] >> income from sales tax if we stayed at
[3:48] revenue neutral rate versus if we stayed
[3:51] at a flat mill levy versus going to the
[3:56] suggested mill levy that was adopted.
[3:58] >> And I mean, I' I've looked into it and I
[4:01] can't find anything
[4:03] definitive on what
[4:07] Okay.
[4:13] » Correct.
[4:14] >> It'll impact.
[4:17] >> Yes.
[4:17] >> Correct. So, we don't know what the loss
[4:19] is going to be.
[4:20] >> I don't I don't believe
[4:25] » it's a very difficult
[4:30] thing to measure because I don't have
[4:32] access to what the county
[4:38] So,
[4:38] >> so, so this is all forecasting of what
[4:41] we think sales tax always is. But
[4:44] >> can you give us could you give us a
[4:47] reasonable range of what kind of impact
[4:51] that would be
[4:53] >> but you're also taking into account the
[4:54] fact your sales tax
[5:02] use a
[5:04] We use a
[5:09] standard based on
[5:13] what I use indexing
[5:20] and you know market related revenue
[5:25] using
[5:31] so I don't anticipate that any
[5:36] your mill.
[5:57] It's not going to
[6:02] less
[6:11] grow.
[6:17] So I guess my question is based on
[6:21] Sedwick County um they have shown that
[6:26] they expect their sales tax to go down
[6:30] their sales tax revenue
[6:31] >> their portion
[6:33] >> and because our portion is based on
[6:35] their portion would ours not go down in
[6:37] the same respect
[6:39] >> they're they're going to receive it less
[6:42] portion because they're
[6:43] >> correct and
[6:44] >> that will not impact not impact Yes, it
[6:47] will.
[6:48] >> It does. According to the formula,
[6:50] >> according to the formula that's used by
[6:52] the state, 50% is still based on
[6:54] population and the other 50% is based on
[6:59] this county's property tax. Um,
[7:02] >> but they're not amount of tax that they
[7:06] are. So what they received they they
[7:10] received full amount
[7:13] the amount tax that they received
[7:16] portion of what was the amount that they
[7:17] were levying
[7:20] >> it's the county sales tax not the
[7:22] property tax
[7:24] >> yes the county county 1% tax that tax is
[7:27] shared between
[7:28] >> correct
[7:30] >> yes
[7:32] >> that 1% portion is not changing
[7:36] >> it's it's not but The the county has
[7:38] also already stated that they were going
[7:40] to lose at least $600,000 by only
[7:42] capturing 4.2% and I I don't know what
[7:45] they actually ended up passing yesterday
[7:46] morning. It was pro they were trying to
[7:47] go lower of their 7 something% total
[7:50] assessed value. There is a penalty at
[7:53] the state if the county reduces
[7:58] >> they are projecting they're going to
[7:59] lose over $600,000 worth of sales tax
[8:02] next year for the county sales tax. my
[8:04] understanding, I've been to a lot of the county budget stuff. Um, and if you
[8:11] don't capture at least what the
[8:14] percentage is that the county captured,
[8:15] you too as a city will lose part of your
[8:19] portion because you've gone lower than
[8:21] they have. So to maintain your same
[8:24] level, you have to capture at least the
[8:25] same amount.
[8:28] And if you go higher, you get a bigger
[8:31] percentage.
[8:34] So that's what I asked last meeting and
[8:36] that's what I'm still asking is what
[8:38] will our loss be by we're not capturing
[8:40] 4.2% or whatever they ended up choosing.
[8:43] It would have been 4.2 would have been
[8:45] the highest. Um if we're not capturing
[8:47] that we will have loss to our county
[8:49] sales tax income.
[8:52] >> I I don't I still am going to say that I
[8:55] don't think that
[8:58] budget but I will uh I will
[9:03] what we anticipate levying. I don't
[9:06] think that anything is affect
[9:10] I don't think you would I don't think
[9:11] it's going to
[9:16] I don't I don't honestly don't think
[9:17] that wheat
[9:23] we talked about impor
[9:34] I'm not disagreeing with you that it's
[9:36] going to have an impact. I just I still
[9:38] don't think it's significant enough that
[9:39] it's going to
[9:40] >> okay
[9:43] it's going to have such an impact that
[9:44] it would affect the budget.
[9:46] >> I just think it's important for council
[9:48] to understand what what the loss is.
[9:50] >> Is it is it something that is it are we talking about $50 here or we
[9:55] talking about $250,000?
[9:57] >> We don't
[9:59] >> that's
[9:59] >> but we're not talking about 50 either
[10:01] possibly. We don't know what we're
[10:03] talking about specifically.
[10:05] >> This is something that hasn't been
[10:06] discussed before.
[10:07] >> Range and does it affect whether we
[10:11] adopt it or not? Does it affect us?
[10:15] >> And that's just was the question that we
[10:17] asked last time because we wanted to be
[10:18] able to be informed
[10:20] to the best of our ability.
[10:22] >> I think it would be fair.
[10:28] Thank you.
[10:34] » I think we need to acknowledge that
[10:36] sales anything to do with sales tax is
[10:39] forecasting. Yes, I think it will not
[10:42] exact science.
[10:43] >> Correct.
[10:44] >> Like like the mil levy is or property
[10:46] tax.
[10:47] >> So if we can have a range of okay if
[10:50] everything goes south and they don't
[10:52] meet their range then it's this impact.
[10:55] But
[10:56] >> I guess I would go a step further and
[10:57] say I don't know what that how that
[10:59] would affect our decision either way.
[11:01] >> I don't either. And that's why I'm
[11:02] saying as far as um having a public
[11:06] hearing notice for our budget being
[11:09] published, that's a different and and I
[11:12] know we need to do that. But because we
[11:15] don't know the impact that we're talking
[11:17] about, will that influence our the
[11:20] potential for us to want to not stay at
[11:23] the revenue neutral rate and maybe stay
[11:25] at a flat mill rate? And if that is the
[11:29] case, then we do need to move forward
[11:31] tonight with actually publishing a
[11:33] revenue neutral rate hearing. We can't
[11:36] wait until the next meeting to publish a
[11:38] revenue neutral rate hearing if we the
[11:41] information isn't what we expect. So I'm
[11:44] just saying are do we want to hedge our
[11:46] bets and just to be on the safe side and
[11:50] do the revenue neutral rate hearing as
[11:52] well.
[12:11] The reduction in mill is
[12:17] We applied that
[12:21] anticipated
[12:23] county tax
[12:25] but the difference would be just under
[12:32] » that's what the full lo
[12:35] >> I think
[12:37] >> which is unlikely
[12:38] >> I don't think go down that I think that
[12:40] would
[12:47] What's going to happen is county is
[12:49] producing their amount, but I mean I I
[12:52] don't know what their full
[12:54] tax revenue is every year.
[13:00] I'll have that.
[13:02] But again, I think when I show you
[13:04] tonight, the $23,000 is not going
[13:10] to
[13:12] >> But I think that's the I think that's
[13:13] what we were looking for is okay. Worst
[13:16] case, this goes south cost 24,000 for
[13:20] me. That's not enough to offset going to
[13:24] >> Okay, that's still
[13:28] a revenue neutral
[13:30] nonrevenue.
[13:32] I can change I can change very quickly.
[13:38] » So the 24K
[13:41] that you just were referring to is that
[13:44] the that's the reduction in the mill
[13:47] rate or the the
[13:49] >> the mill values
[13:50] >> the it's the
[13:53] 4.14%
[13:57] lean.
[14:01] So you're saying that's how much is the
[14:02] difference between staying flat or going
[14:04] neutral. So
[14:05] >> So the number he just gave you has
[14:06] nothing to do with the county sales tax.
[14:08] That's just so going revenue neutral.
[14:11] >> If we're assuming that we're going to
[14:12] lose whatever
[14:16] county sales tax, we assume that we
[14:22] would produce taxing.
[14:28] also assuming that we reduce the bill
[14:31] that would be the maximum potential for
[14:36] county sales
[14:38] because you're not losing you're not
[14:39] losing population
[14:43] » correct
[14:55] » now like I said you would like to
[14:59] You would like me to just
[15:01] preload
[15:04] that I can easily
[15:08] produce a budget with both a revenue
[15:11] rate and a regular budget
[15:15] and it just be a matter
[15:20] difference
[15:25] back into budget.
[15:27] quick.
[15:37] It's just a different
[15:43] » That's up to council.
[15:45] >> Well, let's let's hear what we have to
[15:47] say tonight and then we can
[15:49] >> have more information to make our
[15:52] decision.
[15:53] >> Clearly our
[16:04] You stated that the reserve funds are
[16:06] healthy, but yet the last meeting we
[16:08] were told that the utility funds are
[16:10] low. So are you talking different
[16:13] reserve funds and not the utility
[16:15] reserve?
[16:16] >> We've made some adjustments. Let's
[16:19] presentation.
[16:20] >> Okay. Do we have a print out of this
[16:22] information?
[16:40] Thank you.
[16:43] >> Thank you.
[16:57] Yeah.
[17:00] >> And would you do a favor again and just
[17:01] make sure that mic's really close to you
[17:02] so we pick you up. Thank you.
[17:35] Okay. So, the first page we have up here
[17:37] is the budget certificate page. And this
[17:40] is potentially going to reflect
[17:42] everything tonight. uh includes the
[17:48] budget authority for each of your uh
[17:51] each of your operating funds. Um and
[17:55] essentially what what is that's the page
[17:58] you'll essentially sign after adoption
[18:01] and that'll essentially say that those
[18:03] are the limits to the amount of money
[18:05] that you can spend in 2027 from those
[18:07] funds.
[18:09] Um
[18:12] this page is reflects the uh you know
[18:15] what the state tells us they're going to
[18:16] or excuse me what we get allocated for a
[18:19] motor vehicle tax and how that is split
[18:21] up. So essentially in one of the input
[18:23] pages to the state forms uh you enter
[18:26] the amount that the state says they're
[18:28] going to allocate and if you had other
[18:30] funds that uh contained a portion of
[18:33] your mill levy it would split out a
[18:35] portion of that motor vehicle to those
[18:37] other funds. This is all your only mill
[18:39] fund is the general fund. It just puts
[18:40] everything there. So, but that's just
[18:41] the calculation page used for that. And
[18:43] the only reason I have all this together
[18:44] is because the county insists on every
[18:47] page in the budget uh form get submitted
[18:50] whether you guys it applies to you or
[18:51] not. So, you know, I I did leave out the
[18:54] library uh you know the library
[18:59] page and things like that because you
[19:01] guys don't have a library. But again,
[19:02] they're when I submit it to that when
[19:04] you submit it to them, all that needs to
[19:05] be included. Um, this is the schedule of
[19:08] transfers. These are all reflected in
[19:10] the actual budget pages that we'll get
[19:12] to. Uh, but they include all the
[19:14] transfers between funds,
[19:16] uh, budget for this year. Um
[19:20] the
[19:23] ones that I want you to take a look at
[19:25] that we'll get into are mostly coming
[19:27] out of the general fund because they
[19:29] general fund does have a you know pretty
[19:32] large um budget authority based on prior
[19:36] year performance current year
[19:37] performance and what we anticipate
[19:38] levying uh we will be able to increase
[19:41] some of the transfers um capital
[19:43] improvement
[19:45] is I'm increasing that to 200,000 uh
[19:48] just because I know that we uh you know
[19:52] you have a very good healthy uh balance
[19:54] in your capital improvement fund. But um
[19:57] again my and I've talked about it before
[19:58] my philosophy is that if you've got um
[20:01] you know
[20:03] funds that are you don't plan to use in
[20:06] the budget year, it's good to push them
[20:07] into some sort of reserve or capital
[20:09] fund so they can be used for projects in
[20:11] the future. Same thought there was with
[20:14] the highway fund is essentially pushing
[20:16] uh you know money for future highway
[20:18] projects or uh highway operations there.
[20:22] And then you know that again if those
[20:24] monies are not used they could always be
[20:26] transferred from the highway fund using
[20:28] their that fund's budget authority into
[20:30] uh capital equipment or or equipment
[20:32] reserve things like that.
[20:33] >> I have a question.
[20:34] >> Sure. So with the proposed capital
[20:36] improvement plan that we have been
[20:38] given, um
[20:41] what is the projection of what the
[20:44] yearly transfers need to be um to have a
[20:48] healthy amount of money for some of
[20:49] these projects that are on there? Uh
[20:51] >> so that we aren't bonding everything.
[20:53] >> The projects that are
[20:58] projects have for next year
[21:02] um which include
[21:04] facility needs assessment, the strategic
[21:07] plan,
[21:09] and
[21:13] they were supposed to come out of the
[21:14] capital improvement fund. You've got uh
[21:16] almost a million dollars in there right
[21:18] now. So, there's a million dollars in
[21:19] there right now that could be used to
[21:20] pay for that, but I know that there may
[21:23] be uh some costs for like the park
[21:25] project and things like that that
[21:26] haven't been spent yet. So, but I mean,
[21:28] I know the parks project so far has been
[21:30] about $400,000. I can get you a more
[21:32] accurate number for that. Um, but yeah,
[21:35] there's uh there's nothing in the
[21:38] immediate budget for
[21:41] um it would that would impact in 27 that
[21:46] would uh not be uh funded by the capital
[21:50] improvement fund balance. Now
[21:51] >> I I guess I'm asking a broader question.
[21:53] Thank you for that. But ask even a
[21:55] broader question that we're looking at
[21:57] five years. So, what is the forecast of
[22:00] what where we're going to need to be to
[22:02] keep healthy funds to be able to be
[22:05] looking at all of these projects that
[22:06] are listed on here?
[22:07] >> Well, it and it it's even broader than
[22:09] that because it's not just your capital
[22:11] improvement fund that's going to be
[22:13] paying for this. So it would yeah it
[22:14] would require um
[22:20] if I my recommendation is probably going
[22:22] to be when we get to the end of probably
[22:25] not this year but when we get to the end
[22:27] of 2027
[22:28] any additional fund balance that you
[22:31] have or excuse me any additional budget
[22:33] authority that you have uh that you
[22:36] could be even uh transferring additional
[22:39] funds into capital improvement I would
[22:41] probably recommend making like a year
[22:43] transfer of some of those funds into
[22:45] your capital improvement fund. Um I
[22:48] don't have a number for you right now on
[22:49] what it would take to fund uh just with
[22:52] you know with operation operating cash
[22:54] for all of these uh over the next couple
[22:56] years because again it looks like some
[22:58] of the bigger projects here are going to
[23:01] be
[23:02] >> um you know
[23:05] >> of a nature that it's probably not
[23:08] feasible to use operating funds to pay
[23:11] for them. And even stuff like this, you
[23:13] know, if you're looking at a like a
[23:15] Wampo funding type project,
[23:17] >> that too uh is going to differ that
[23:20] calculation. I would say though that
[23:22] through
[23:24] >> I would say that at least through 2029,
[23:27] not including
[23:30] probably
[23:33] Yeah. anything utility related I I mean
[23:35] if you're just relying on your utility
[23:37] funds no you don't have cash on hand for
[23:39] right
[23:40] >> that specifically
[23:41] >> um those are going to require and and
[23:43] the benefit of some of those type things
[23:45] you're eligible for the you know
[23:49] >> especially water and sear eligible for
[23:52] KDH uh you know lowcost loans for those
[23:56] but yeah we can I mean if we were going
[23:59] to build out a
[24:03] true capital improvement fund
[24:06] uh budget, we would have to make
[24:10] assumptions about things like, you know,
[24:12] grant funding and WMO funding and what
[24:15] portion of um
[24:17] any of any of the utility projects that
[24:20] you would want to ex build out, what
[24:22] portion of those would come from cash
[24:23] and what portion would you
[24:24] understandably be bonded?
[24:26] I just feel like that's important for
[24:28] the council to be looking at not just
[24:31] next year, but that we're looking ahead
[24:35] so that we have uh solid foundation in
[24:38] making decisions of where we're at
[24:40] financially, where we need to be. And
[24:41] like even the um
[24:45] >> the corridor improvements and the
[24:47] sidewalk, I mean, part of that, that's
[24:49] the 1% sales tax that we have.
[24:52] >> And it's like, where are we with that?
[24:54] Are we starting to pay that back? What's
[24:56] our balance left? When's the forecast of
[24:58] when that's going to be paid off? So,
[25:00] those are all questions I think that are
[25:01] important because that was the funding
[25:03] that was used for phase one to begin
[25:05] with. So, and I haven't seen anything I
[25:09] don't know if anyone else has seen
[25:10] anything that gives us an understanding
[25:12] of where we're at with the debt that was
[25:14] already occurred. Have we started
[25:16] paying? How much is paid off? When are
[25:17] we expected to pay it off with the 1%
[25:20] sales tax that's coming in that's
[25:21] supposed to pay for that?
[25:23] So it's a just a I would like that
[25:25] financial information so it gives us a
[25:27] better understanding.
[25:35] » Thank you.
[25:36] >> And then here is a statement of
[25:38] indebtedness. Um, this reflects all of
[25:41] your current outstanding geo bonds in
[25:43] the top section there. And then at the
[25:46] bottom section, your uh uh temp notes
[25:49] and the PBC bond that pays off actually
[25:52] this year. Looks like the final payment
[25:55] on that will be in November.
[25:58] Um, and so what you're talking about,
[26:01] uh, when you would be referring to, I'm
[26:06] assuming that's the 24 temp note is what
[26:08] was was it 24 temp note?
[26:11] >> Yeah, that number looks right. 965,000.
[26:14] >> Yeah, I I believe that's probably the
[26:15] one we're referring to. The pay for this
[26:19] improvements that we're going to be
[26:20] using sales tax to prepaid.
[26:24] >> That's current.
[26:26] >> Current note.
[26:26] >> Yes. So, we're not paying on that yet.
[26:29] And so, we don't have a forecast of when
[26:31] that's supposed to be paid off.
[26:32] >> They just built it into our forecast.
[26:41] » Yeah. Well, so the temp note is
[26:47] the current temp note, the 2026 temp
[26:48] note, I believe, is that that's being
[26:52] used to fund projects that have already
[26:53] been paid for. Is that what you're
[26:54] saying?
[26:56] No, I I just came on the inter
[26:58] intersection.
[27:00] >> The intersection project.
[27:03] >> because that's supposed to be repaid by
[27:04] the 1% sales tax.
[27:06] >> So I'm asking when are we paying for it?
[27:08] When's the forecast of it being paid
[27:10] off? Because that impacts another
[27:12] project that's on the CIP because that's
[27:14] where the money comes from.
[27:15] >> Look at that. We'll be
[27:17] >> I mean, so what what I'll what I'll do
[27:19] is I'll make a I'll I'll just do a
[27:21] specific schedule that shows uh what
[27:24] portion of all of these temp notes are
[27:26] going for because I'm assuming that 25
[27:28] is the development, right?
[27:33] Turtle Turtle Creek it's called
[27:35] >> is those
[27:40] >> Yeah. So that so that so the 25 t that's
[27:42] going to be repaid with special
[27:44] assessment
[27:44] >> is 26 Huffman and Casey's
[27:48] >> okay
[27:50] I guess another question I have just
[27:52] because we've heard of another city that
[27:54] got themselves into serious debt
[27:56] trouble.
[27:58] They went from 23 to $50 million in
[28:00] debt. I just want to make sure that we
[28:03] have plenty of debt information so that
[28:06] this council doesn't end up in a similar
[28:08] situation making those kinds of
[28:09] decisions and not realizing how much
[28:11] more in debt we're getting and what the
[28:13] city has to pay back debtwise and what
[28:16] has come through the city for projects
[28:18] and there's someone else paying back.
[28:21] >> Well, it it's not really part of the the
[28:23] um
[28:25] annual budget adoption. It's more it is
[28:28] more in it is more in line with the uh
[28:30] capital budgeting process. So, what I'll
[28:33] do is, like I said, I'll find out which
[28:35] one of these specifically is getting
[28:37] repaid with sales tax funds. And
[28:39] basically what we'll do is um show you
[28:42] where uh sales tax money has been uh how it's been allocated so far because
[28:49] basically it's going into
[28:50] >> it should be acrewing at this point
[28:52] because all of that money was supposed
[28:53] to be for the intersection project.
[28:55] >> Yes, that's what I mean. Where where
[28:57] it's been acrewing. So, it's going into
[28:58] the general fund. general funds
[29:00] transferring it to your capital
[29:02] improvement fund to your street fund and
[29:04] then when we get uh when that goes into
[29:07] permanent repayment will match make sure
[29:09] that that portion only for that project
[29:13] is specifically going into essentially
[29:15] fund balance from those funds that'll be
[29:17] making the debt payment. So, we can
[29:18] transfer it into capital improvement.
[29:20] You could pay for it out of uh you know
[29:22] your street fund. You can pay for it out
[29:25] of uh
[29:27] um
[29:30] I would I would probably recommend
[29:31] either the street fund or the or the
[29:33] bonded interest fund. And you can just
[29:35] it can be as simple as transferring it
[29:37] or if you um
[29:39] >> it doesn't have its own fund.
[29:41] >> No.
[29:41] >> To keep it separated because that's it
[29:43] was specifically to pay for that
[29:45] project. I mean it's it's accounted for
[29:48] separately.
[29:49] >> Yeah, it's accounted for it own.
[29:50] >> Yeah. So, shouldn't it have its own
[29:52] fund?
[29:53] >> It doesn't need its own fund. It it just
[29:54] gets accounted for in its own it's its
[29:56] own line item separately. So, we
[29:58] >> I just want to accountability for the
[30:00] people of Kai that they know that this
[30:02] money has been protected and that it is
[30:04] paying back the intersection.
[30:06] >> You know, it's been accounted for
[30:07] separately and we can we can track it
[30:09] back as far as we need to go with it.
[30:16] Okay, so this first page of the general
[30:18] fund shows all of the general fund
[30:19] revenue and this again assumes the you
[30:23] won't see it included here because the
[30:24] way the state form works they actually
[30:26] this state form is used to generate what
[30:28] the adorum tax will be. So we'll see it
[30:30] at the bottom of the next page here. But
[30:32] this is what our assumptions are for u
[30:36] all of our revenue sources going forward
[30:37] that everything above that sort of
[30:40] personal property line is numbers that
[30:43] are you know we get from the uh from the state or from the county
[30:49] depending on who it is. And then
[30:50] everything below that is your other
[30:52] revenue sources including uh county and
[30:54] city sales tax.
[30:56] uh state liquor tax
[30:59] assess uh state assess utilities is also
[31:02] again portion of the uh
[31:05] generated by the abalorum tax but it's
[31:08] uh it's not calculated the way that that
[31:13] regular business county gives us advice
[31:16] on how to account for that and then the
[31:20] bigger lines down at the bottom you'll
[31:21] see is the interest earnings those are
[31:22] considerably higher since we moved over
[31:26] to the uh um inrified uh fund through uh
[31:32] Enterprise Bank and again you just got
[31:36] fairly high uh
[31:39] you know balances there so it's
[31:40] obviously generating more interest.
[31:43] The next one here is
[31:44] >> mean that interest earnings where it's
[31:49] so it was 192 in 2005
[31:52] >> in 2025 and we're looking at 180 this
[31:55] year.
[31:56] >> I I it's just one of those things I
[31:58] don't I don't like over
[31:59] >> Okay.
[32:00] >> I don't like overbudgeting
[32:01] >> coming year
[32:02] >> revenue line items that I can't be
[32:03] completely reliable on. So
[32:04] >> Okay. Thank you. If if I had six months
[32:07] of if I had six months of collections to
[32:09] look at to tell me that it's probably
[32:11] you're probably going to end uh 26 with
[32:13] 200,000. If I saw that again this time
[32:15] next year, I would increase it. But I
[32:17] just for you know
[32:18] >> purposes uh being prudent, I didn't do
[32:21] that.
[32:22] >> And then here is the uh expenditure
[32:25] side. Uh we have expenditures here by um
[32:30] just the way they're categorized on the
[32:31] sheet in the in the detail pages you
[32:34] have. You'll see those all broken down
[32:35] by individual department in the general
[32:38] fund and then again by line item and by
[32:40] category.
[32:43] See how we get to that bottom number.
[32:45] For the purposes of uh budgeting, we put
[32:49] in that cash reserve line and uh so that
[32:52] 1.4 million65 that is essentially
[32:56] carryover fund balance from the prior
[32:57] year that we're budgeting as an
[32:59] expenditure. So you have the budget
[33:01] authority to spend all of it if you
[33:02] wanted to, which of course I nobody's
[33:04] going to recommend you do that. But also
[33:05] that getting it getting your expenditure
[33:08] amount up to that level is what
[33:09] determines your what your mill levy will
[33:12] be. So, for instance, if we were going
[33:14] to adopt or if if if you wanted to have
[33:17] a nonRNR uh if you wanted to have a
[33:21] nonRNR uh
[33:24] you wanted to have a hearing to exceed
[33:25] the RNR, then we would what we would do
[33:27] is we essentially would add back in the
[33:29] amount of property tax that we think uh
[33:32] that we that we estimate that the
[33:35] keeping a flat levy would generate. We
[33:37] add it into that $ 1.4 million number
[33:39] and that's how we would get it get it up
[33:41] to
[33:42] That would that's that's the specific
[33:44] number that we will change to adjust the
[33:46] middle
[33:54] and the very bottom bottom right corner
[33:57] there was 1.311
[34:00] uh million that's that is the uh amount
[34:03] of advalorum tax that the formulas in
[34:05] the state forms generate so it's equal
[34:07] to what you had last year
[34:09] >> question
[34:09] >> sure
[34:10] >> in the cash reserve 2027 column the
[34:13] 1.465.
[34:15] >> Yeah.
[34:15] >> Um
[34:18] what is the value
[34:21] left from the cash reserve and moving
[34:23] that over to balance
[34:27] » like so you're you're you're making a
[34:29] transfer.
[34:30] >> Nope.
[34:31] >> That like I said just a filler. That is
[34:33] a what what we're doing with that number
[34:36] is essentially we are budgeting as an
[34:39] expenditure your carryover fund balance and any
[34:43] difference between what you what we
[34:45] budget to spend and what we budget to uh
[34:48] receive. So, you know, the state defines
[34:51] a balanced budget as carryover fund
[34:54] balance plus revenue minus expenditure.
[34:57] And whatever's left over, if as long as
[34:59] it's zero, you're technically a balanced
[35:01] budget, even though you're spending down
[35:02] everything you had from the year before.
[35:04] For the purposes of establishing the
[35:06] mill levy, we budget that carryover fund
[35:09] balance as an expenditure. And that gets
[35:12] your mill levy to what it would take to
[35:15] complete essentially
[35:18] uh generate what to essentially generate
[35:22] that tax then spend down everything that
[35:25] we show we're spending down and get you
[35:26] to zero. Now, of course, we're not
[35:28] actually going to spend down to zero.
[35:30] We're going to uh essentially
[35:33] that we're not no there's no line item
[35:35] in your budget that's going to actually
[35:36] get charged to that 1.4 million. That's
[35:38] going to stay there. And again, that's
[35:41] what I'm talking about when we're
[35:42] talking about u uh you know, at the end
[35:46] of at the end of the budget year looking
[35:48] at where else can we transfer this money
[35:50] for things like capital projects that
[35:52] you talked about. Um so at at that point
[35:55] we would look, okay, what's our fund
[35:56] balance at now? We we you know we look
[35:59] at it during the the budget year as
[36:02] well. Um, and we'd say, you know, what
[36:04] can we additionally transfer out to
[36:06] capital to any of our other necessary
[36:09] funds where we would want to uh, you
[36:11] know, essentially pay for projects that
[36:14] we don't have to bond out.
[36:17] So that's that's the purpose of that
[36:18] line.
[36:19] >> So it's not it's not budget authority.
[36:22] >> Okay.
[36:22] >> It so it's um it's expected to be there
[36:25] at the end of the year.
[36:27] >> Tech technically it is legally budget
[36:30] authority, but we're not actually going
[36:31] to spend it. It would be you it would it
[36:34] would if you spent that you would spend
[36:35] your fund balance down to zero and risk
[36:38] at that point you would you would be
[36:40] risking a budget amendment or a budget
[36:42] violation.
[36:43] >> So in 2026 we're expecting to actually
[36:48] spend 200,000
[36:51] of our cash reserves.
[36:53] >> That no again that's it's the same thing
[36:55] there. We're we're putting it there.
[36:57] putting putting it there to essentially
[37:00] uh carry forward 200,000 additional more
[37:03] in carryover fund balance into the
[37:05] following year.
[37:13] It's it's essentially it's like a uh I
[37:16] again it it's only for the purposes of
[37:18] the state budget form that we're doing
[37:20] this on
[37:20] >> but we are giving budget authority to
[37:22] spend it and not hang on to it. We're
[37:25] well we're applying it in this form to
[37:28] uh your expenditures. It's it's not
[37:30] going to your budget authority is
[37:32] established for 26 last year with the
[37:34] budget. So this would just mean that
[37:36] instead of a uh you know
[37:40] because because you see there if you
[37:41] look at if you look in the middle column
[37:43] the bottom three lines you've got total
[37:45] expenditures uncovered cash balance
[37:47] December 31 and then 25 22x 27 budget
[37:50] authority. So the middle one that's 26
[37:52] budget authority. We're essentially
[37:54] using that to almost bring your uh uh
[37:59] amount of your uh expenditures almost up
[38:02] to what the budget authority is. And
[38:05] we're just putting it in there as an
[38:06] expenditure to uh essentially not spend
[38:10] it and then carry it forward in fund
[38:11] balance.
[38:15] I can I can take that out if you want.
[38:17] is just going to push it into the uh
[38:19] beginning fund balance line for 2027 and
[38:23] push everything up by $200,000.
[38:26] Um, but you know, this gives you, you
[38:29] know, I mean, so the thing that you're
[38:31] always worried about when you're getting
[38:32] into fourth quarter is, you know, do we
[38:35] have budget authority to cover
[38:36] everything we need to pay for? And you
[38:38] have ample budget authority in general
[38:40] fund to do so. But the kind of the
[38:42] purpose of that cash reserve line is if
[38:44] you are not going to be spending all of
[38:46] your budget authority,
[38:48] you know, you can either show it as a
[38:51] budget adjustment for the following year
[38:53] or not budget adjustment, you can show
[38:54] it as a carryover fund balance for the
[38:56] following year in again this is
[38:58] specifically for the uh budgeting
[39:01] process or you can put it in as an
[39:02] expenditure like that and then it'll
[39:04] just you know your your actual year end
[39:07] will look better than the budget year
[39:09] end.
[39:10] that will actually change.
[39:20] Are there any more questions?
[39:25] And then this uh the next page is the you know how the uh funds are broken
[39:31] down into uh departments or and actually
[39:35] in this case it's not actually
[39:36] departments it's sort of like cost
[39:38] centers that we group together but again
[39:40] if you want the detail it's in those
[39:42] other pages that Matt printed out for
[39:44] you.
[39:48] uh bond and interest fund uh set up
[39:50] similarly. If you see here that cash
[39:52] reserve uh line is 2.3 million. And
[39:57] again, the only reason the only way this
[39:59] even makes this even works out is to
[40:02] because we have built in a $ 1.9 million
[40:05] bond proceeds line item in your uh on
[40:08] the revenue side. And so what that is
[40:10] essentially is what would the cost be to
[40:12] retire your temp notes if you had to do
[40:14] it in one year. And so you I'm giving
[40:16] you a revenue sides calculation for what
[40:19] those would cost. And then on the
[40:20] reverse side, I'm giving you the budget
[40:21] of the work to do it if you had to
[40:22] retire those dividends, the full amount
[40:25] of them.
[40:27] This way you're not running into timing
[40:29] issues when you do go to retire those
[40:35] uh street fund here. Um
[40:39] big thing here you look at is they've
[40:41] got a fairly good carryover as well in
[40:44] that uh cash reserve line about $450,000
[40:48] and again you know it's one of the
[40:50] reasons I wanted to I want to start
[40:52] increasing the transfer into here is so
[40:55] uh you know whether you decide to pay
[40:57] for those
[41:00] >> using those using those uh sales tax
[41:02] dollars whether you decide to pay for um
[41:06] uh you know repayment of that street
[41:07] project out of here or uh out of uh you
[41:12] know capital improvement or excuse me
[41:14] out bonded interest. This is probably
[41:16] this fund probably makes the most sense
[41:18] to make those transfers from. So when we
[41:19] do get what the debt service on that's
[41:21] going to be and we start paying it back,
[41:23] we'll make sure that we're matching
[41:24] whatever is flowing into here for that
[41:26] payment to what the debt payment will
[41:28] be.
[41:30] >> So since the so for instance the 2026 or
[41:35] 2024 temp note will have to be it
[41:39] expires this year. So we'll have to
[41:41] change it into a permanent bond.
[41:44] Yes.
[41:44] >> So that 42,000 is going to come out of C
[41:48] the this fund
[41:53] that's basically the sales tax and the
[41:56] 965,000
[41:58] is going to come out of the sales
[42:02] proceeds from when we sell the permanent
[42:04] bond.
[42:05] >> Yeah. So it what that which which page
[42:09] are you on? I'm sorry. Well, I'm
[42:10] comparing what you have on page nine to
[42:14] what you have on page four.
[42:16] >> What What are those p I don't have page
[42:17] numbers on my slides. I'm sorry.
[42:20] >> Um the one is the state statement of
[42:22] indebtedness and then this current
[42:24] slide. So on the statement of
[42:27] indebtedness,
[42:28] so the Kichi Road in Oliver, well the
[42:31] temp like a temp note 2024, the Kichi
[42:33] Road and Oliver is basically what that
[42:35] is. Since it expires this year, that
[42:38] 42,219,
[42:40] we will definitely be paying the 965 is
[42:43] actually coming out of will be paid by
[42:46] the sale of that bond from a temporary
[42:48] note to a to a full bond.
[42:51] >> So the
[42:52] >> is that how you're looking at that?
[42:53] >> No, the It'll be it'll 28 is when you'll
[42:56] start repaying that temp note. Will you
[42:58] be you'll start paying the permanent
[43:00] bond that that temp note will retire.
[43:02] >> Yes.
[43:03] >> But that that that GO bond will retire
[43:05] that temp note and you'll be repaying
[43:06] that uh bond in 20 beginning in 2028.
[43:09] >> And at that point,
[43:11] >> huh?
[43:11] >> But we have to pay the interest.
[43:16] » So I'm there's interest listed.
[43:18] >> There's the So the 42,000 that's what
[43:20] I'm talking about. So the 42,219 is
[43:23] really what will come out of our is
[43:26] budgeted for general fund to pay for
[43:28] this year.
[43:28] >> I believe it's
[43:31] >> I believe I believe it's included in the
[43:33] temp note the it's included in the temp
[43:35] note finance. So it'll get paid out of
[43:36] the whichever fund the project is
[43:38] located in.
[43:39] >> Okay.
[43:42] the the again I I can't tell you what
[43:44] that specific note was for so I can't
[43:46] tell you exactly how it's going to be
[43:47] repaid but it the the typically the uh
[43:52] you know they capitalize the interest in
[43:54] temp note so it's you borrow the amount
[43:56] that you're going to have to pay in temp
[43:57] note interest and then when you retire
[43:59] that you know they'll do a calculation
[44:01] based on how much of the notes that you
[44:03] actually use and you know which how much
[44:05] of it can be paid paid back and so then
[44:06] they'll determine what your permanent
[44:09] bond is going to be and then the
[44:10] interest on that will be paid as part of
[44:12] the regular debt service and that is it.
[44:15] So whichever one of these is referring
[44:16] to the street project. So when they when
[44:18] they issue that that permanent bond um
[44:21] that is the comp the both the interest
[44:25] payment and the principal payment of
[44:26] that is going to be paid for with that
[44:28] sales tax money and that if that is
[44:32] included in that 24 note then that will
[44:34] begin repayment in 2028.
[44:36] So that'll and you know that's just part
[44:38] of the timing of that project is make
[44:40] sure that we have uh that cash reserve
[44:42] and as you can see you do have
[44:43] sufficient cash on hand especially in
[44:46] general fund and in your bond and
[44:47] interest fund to make
[44:50] uh you know those payments. It's just
[44:52] that we need to make sure that what
[44:53] whatever specific uh fund you're going
[44:56] to be using for those payments, we have
[44:58] a we tie the uh you know sales tax revenue to
[45:04] that specific payment.
[45:08] But again, that that shouldn't be that
[45:10] shouldn't impact until 2020 9 because
[45:13] the principal repayment on the 24 temp
[45:17] note is September of uh 2027.
[45:28] » Thank you.
[45:29] >> Yeah.
[45:40] So the
[45:43] water revenue side here uh you can see
[45:46] uh where we're projecting
[45:49] uh this would be water and uh excuse me
[45:51] water and uh
[45:54] water revenue and expenditure in the
[45:56] same same uh
[45:58] page here. You'll like I said you've got
[46:00] the line items there if you want to go
[46:02] over those. I have those as well. on the
[46:03] computer if we want to look into them.
[46:05] Um,
[46:09] uh, cash reserve here is not quite as
[46:12] much. It's only about $50,000.
[46:14] Um, but we were able to get some, uh,
[46:19] budget savings here by um, essentially
[46:24] dialing in the personnel splits for
[46:26] public works. There was a portion of
[46:28] them that were uh, uh, to be paid from
[46:35] both this and the street fund and we we
[46:37] returned to that portion. The way the way they're split is pretty uh
[46:43] complicated but going forward they'll be
[46:45] split appropriately. So
[46:46] >> So what is that appropriate split? I
[46:49] mean what is the new split if we're ch
[46:50] because I'm sorry I kind
[46:52] >> pull the split schedule but what we
[46:54] found is that nothing was being pulled
[46:56] from
[46:58] >> Yeah. But there it was only like a it
[46:59] was only like a portion of of one FTE.
[47:02] It wasn't even it wasn't even like a
[47:03] full half FTE.
[47:04] >> It was just a portion of one. And so
[47:06] essentially it was it was
[47:08] >> I don't know I don't I can't I don't
[47:10] know when it happened. I know there was
[47:11] no budget or there was no uh expenditure
[47:14] from that line in street last year, but
[47:16] you know we we're pushing it back into
[47:18] there now. So it'll be it'll be
[47:19] allocated there going forward.
[47:23] >> Yeah. I'd like to know what the what the
[47:25] splits were.
[47:26] >> Yeah. It's and honestly at at some point
[47:29] uh I I've you know I think part of the
[47:31] reason Matt wants to uh look at not only
[47:34] you know the facilities uh need study
[47:37] but again something like that could kind
[47:39] of better guide how those positions
[47:42] should be split um you know obviously
[47:44] with uh
[47:46] the you know look just looking at the
[47:48] budget of your utilities and the impact
[47:52] that you know public works has for them.
[47:55] Uh it's probably not outside of uh it's
[47:58] probably a good idea at some point soon
[48:00] to go and you know make sure that
[48:02] >> the the way they're split currently and you know not just how they're split
[48:06] but how they're you know what their
[48:07] specific jobs entail are better tied to
[48:11] uh
[48:12] >> the resources in your uh utility funds.
[48:14] >> Well and I understand that and I know
[48:16] that we have um over the years made
[48:19] changes in different directions. I just
[48:21] wanted to know what
[48:22] >> Yeah. what the what those changes are.
[48:25] >> Yeah, we can get that.
[48:41] » Uh again, gas utility here um see
[48:45] increase revenue uh both this year and
[48:49] anticipate next year as well.
[48:52] uh personnel numbers here still you know
[48:55] personnel and commodities tend to be
[48:57] your highest uh
[49:00] highest expenditures. Um
[49:04] we uh you did have a gas project this
[49:07] year that would be uh paid for out of
[49:10] the capital improvement fund. So um it
[49:13] doesn't hit the actual operating
[49:14] revenue. If it did it would have you
[49:16] know it was it was a large project so it
[49:18] would have been under budget. that's why
[49:19] it's getting paid for a capital
[49:20] improvement. But again, even with even
[49:22] with uh you know your cost increases,
[49:25] we're still putting a cash reserve of
[49:27] 443,000
[49:29] going forward for next year. So that's
[49:32] good, which basically just means you can
[49:33] anticipate that much of a carryover fund
[49:35] balance, which is, you know,und almost
[49:38] 130,000 more than the uh we're
[49:41] anticipating for the beginning of the
[49:42] year.
[49:45] Sewer, as you can see, is a much tighter
[49:47] budget. Uh it's been declining in
[49:51] uh carryover fund balance for for at
[49:53] least two years now. Um the the funny
[49:56] thing here is though is you've got
[49:57] almost a half a million dollars in sewer
[49:59] reserves. So it's it's it's the reserve
[50:01] fund with with the largest balance, but
[50:02] on the operating side it's
[50:04] >> it's uh you know expenditures as you can
[50:07] see typically for personnel and
[50:08] commodities are driving that. So,
[50:13] um I think Matt has mentioned that
[50:15] there's probably a need for a
[50:18] reassessment of sewer rates and
[50:19] hopefully you can look into that for
[50:24] following year. This budget anticipated
[50:26] a minimum a
[50:28] 4 and a.5% increase for sewer rates.
[50:42] Uh the last couple here are I don't like
[50:45] calling them pass through funds because
[50:47] they they're not quite that simplistic
[50:49] but you know they're much smaller
[50:51] operating funds uh solid waste recycling
[50:53] and the storm water fund.
[50:56] So
[50:58] still they, you know, uh it's not a
[51:01] great fund balance, but percentage wise
[51:03] it's not bad for fund of this size. And
[51:07] we still even have a uh
[51:10] pardon me, we still have a cash reserve
[51:11] here 22,000 going into 27 going at the
[51:14] end of 27. So that's positive.
[51:18] Storm water similarly a very healthy
[51:22] cash reserve actually you know almost
[51:24] 100% of its anticipated expenditure. So,
[51:27] or excuse me, not 100% of its carryover,
[51:30] almost 100% of it carryover
[51:33] from the prior year. So, it's still
[51:35] operating in a good position. And I did
[51:37] actually build in the $20,000 and
[51:39] $25,000 as project potential project
[51:42] costs for 26 27. Again, you're probably
[51:45] not going to spend them and so they'll
[51:46] just carry forward as fund balance.
[51:56] uh the land bank that truly is just a
[51:58] you know we budgeted we budget an
[52:00] expenditure for the full amount of the
[52:02] carryover fund balance and that's all we
[52:04] do with that.
[52:05] >> Okay.
[52:09] » Is um on the storm water
[52:12] >> is that more than just
[52:16] the one employee is that it's do the
[52:19] public works feed into that one as well?
[52:21] We're taking a little bit of public.
[52:23] >> Okay.
[52:25] >> Because they do.
[52:26] >> Well, that's I just was asking. I mean,
[52:29] >> okay. Thank you.
[52:36] » And then the opioid settlement fund. Uh
[52:39] Scott still has some uh money left in
[52:41] it. So, I just budget the full the full
[52:44] amount to come out in uh 2027. It
[52:48] doesn't get spent. It can stay there. It
[52:49] just carried forward.
[52:57] And then special parks and recck fund
[52:59] receives uh I think it's half the state
[53:01] liquor uh
[53:04] >> distribution
[53:06] and then you know budgeted I just budget
[53:09] again budgeted to carry on fund balance
[53:12] as an expenditure as a reserve or I
[53:14] actually put in a commodities line in
[53:15] case there's you know parks small small
[53:19] scale park improvement you'd like that
[53:20] doesn't require an entire uh big capital
[53:24] project. See those big capital projects,
[53:28] you like to have them in their own
[53:29] either project fund or run through the
[53:31] capital improvement fund just because
[53:32] there's so many costs involved with it,
[53:34] engineering, you know, potential fees
[53:37] for
[53:39] uh you know design and things like that.
[53:41] So, but smaller projects like you know
[53:43] if you're going to do a you know buy a amenity that staff can install
[53:49] things like that on a smaller scale it's
[53:51] good to use them here and use that use
[53:53] that money. Um, at some point I would
[53:56] even consider doing a regular transfer
[53:59] of uh surplus general fund revenue in
[54:02] here just to build that up to where you
[54:04] know you can do smaller projects every
[54:06] year but bank half of what your transfer
[54:07] would be just so after two or three
[54:09] years you have enough to do a not a big
[54:12] project but another you know significant
[54:14] addition amenity adding to your park
[54:17] system and it didn't have to be just you
[54:20] know the you know like equipments like
[54:21] that. You could also do a uh
[54:25] something like a you know re redo relaying sod on
[54:31] a not sod but you know relaying mulch on
[54:34] a trail or something like that that is
[54:35] more than just an every year thing you
[54:38] do but not quite the scale of a large
[54:40] capital project.
[54:43] So on the capital improvement budget that
[54:48] we saw last time, we had the
[54:49] approximately two mills going to the
[54:51] park improvement program. Is that in
[54:55] just the regular park?
[54:56] >> It it's going into
[54:57] >> Where does that go?
[54:58] >> It's going into the capital improvement
[54:59] fund.
[54:59] >> It's going to capital improvement fund.
[55:01] Thank you.
[55:07] And then for the budget submission, they
[55:09] require you to submit a uh 2025 actual
[55:13] expenditure revenue for your
[55:15] non-budgeted funds. So beginning with
[55:18] capital improvement,
[55:19] uh you see there that total receipts at
[55:21] 177300. That was essentially two mills
[55:24] plus a, you know, $100,000 catchup from
[55:27] the prior year for the park project.
[55:30] But that was the basis for that. Um the
[55:35] equipment reserve you see transfers from
[55:37] uh the various funds go in there.
[55:41] Then uh you know not much not much
[55:45] expenditure out of equipment reserve
[55:47] last year. Uh and that that's something
[55:50] else we can go into is uh I'll start
[55:53] making I'll start making that part of
[55:54] the regular monthly report is just
[55:57] essentially what the cash balances for
[55:59] these funds look like. So, you know, you
[56:02] have a more up-to-date regular eye on
[56:05] how they're performing that can be used
[56:07] for capital stuff. Uh, water reserve,
[56:10] fairly low fund balance there. Uh, gas
[56:14] reserve, not bad, but again, like I said
[56:16] earlier, sewer reserve,
[56:18] the worst performing utility fund, but
[56:20] it does have the largest reserve there.
[56:22] But that makes sense because sewer sewer
[56:24] replacement stuff is expensive. So, it's not a bad thing to have that that
[56:28] type of fund balance. Council,
[56:39] any further discussion or questions from
[56:41] Melan?
[56:55] » Yep.
[57:00] the way I'm thinking, but if you guys
[57:04] want to keep it open, we can.
[57:09] >> So, discussion on what you want to do
[57:11] about revenue neutral rate hearing.
[57:13] >> Well, can we discuss that in the regular
[57:15] meeting since that's where since that's
[57:17] where that'll have to happen and we only
[57:18] have a couple minutes left. I do have a
[57:20] question on the a couple questions on
[57:22] the capital improvement um plan
[57:25] schedule. So last meeting the police
[57:29] vehicle was slated for 2028 and I notice
[57:33] on this one it's 2027. I thought we had
[57:36] put we had said we were going to put it
[57:38] off.
[57:39] >> Yeah. So we just we just made that
[57:42] update this week. Chief, when we met, we
[57:45] all met this week.
[57:49] Chief was concerned
[57:51] downscuring
[58:11] the budget retreat. was not a priority
[58:14] from the council. So, I don't know how
[58:17] council wants to resolve that.
[58:20] Well,
[58:22] I mean, because we also had it where we
[58:24] didn't have the we didn't have the
[58:27] previous vehicle that was replaced after
[58:29] the accident. Correct. That was not in
[58:31] the capital improvement budget,
[58:33] >> but we still did it.
[58:39] >> We had a portion we had to pay.
[58:45] But it was
[58:48] >> No. Okay. I I I'll So right now we don't
[58:53] have a plan to replace it, but we're
[58:55] going to budget it. Is Is that going to
[58:57] be an ongoing that we just keep a car in
[58:59] the budget?
[59:00] >> Well, a lot of that depends on our
[59:18] Chief wants to make sure
[59:41] I have more discussion on CIP, but I'm
[59:43] going to bring it up during council
[59:45] meeting.
[59:46] >> Okay.
[59:48] >> So, as far as Matt Lawn, do we have
[59:50] anything else for Matt?
[59:51] >> No.
[59:52] >> Okay. Thank you so much, Matt.
[59:53] >> Thank you, Matt. So, if you guys do
[59:55] decide to do the RNR or have the RNR
[59:58] hearing and, you know, exceed the RNR
[1:00:00] rate, that it is a, like I said, it is a
[1:00:02] simple calculation. I can have it uh,
[1:00:05] you know, I can have it to Matt as soon
[1:00:06] as he notifies me of what it'll be and
[1:00:09] you'll be able to do whatever you want.
[1:00:13] >> Thank you, Matt. I appreciate that.
[1:00:14] >> Thank you.
[1:00:15] >> Um, I would entertain a motion to
[1:00:18] adjurnn.
[1:00:21] If there's no further discussion,
[1:00:22] >> I move that we adjourn.
[1:00:24] >> Second.
[1:00:24] >> Motion by council member Morland, second
[1:00:26] by council member Hedstrom. All in
[1:00:29] favor? I
[1:00:30] >> I uh second question. Are you guys ready
[1:00:33] to turn around and start again or do you
[1:00:34] want a fivem minute break?
[1:00:35] >> Five minute break. Yeah.
[1:00:36] >> Okay. We will return at 700. Oh, let me
[1:00:39] see what time it is on my actual phone.
[1:00:41] We We'll return at 7:05 and get started.
[1:00:45] And I just want to let everybody know
[1:00:47] that if you are signing up to talk,
[1:00:49] please make sure you fill out your form
[1:00:51] and bring it up to Debbie so that she
[1:00:53] can have those all ready to go. Thank
[1:00:55] you.
[1:02:17] That's right.
[1:02:27] I figured
[1:02:50] something
[1:10:48] Okay.
[1:10:50] Good evening and welcome to the Kichai
[1:10:52] city council meeting. It is Thursday,
[1:10:55] August 27, 2026 and the time is now 710.
[1:11:00] Debbie, if you'll please call roll.
[1:11:04] >> Here.
[1:11:05] here
[1:11:07] >> this evening. I would like to welcome
[1:11:08] Pastor Doug Woodan to lead the
[1:11:10] invocation which will be followed by the
[1:11:12] pledge. If you would all please rise.
[1:11:21] » Father, thank you so much for the
[1:11:23] opportunity we have to live in a free
[1:11:25] society where we can vote and share our
[1:11:28] concerns and and our goals and dreams
[1:11:31] and visions. I pray for the the council
[1:11:34] tonight and the staff that you would
[1:11:36] give them wisdom of Solomon, but also
[1:11:39] the uh the peace of Christ and also what
[1:11:42] Paul said that we uh think not of our
[1:11:44] own interest but interest of others. And
[1:11:47] thank you for this community and may we
[1:11:49] all come together and to make us
[1:11:52] stronger and better. And we give you all
[1:11:54] the praise and glory in Jesus name we
[1:11:56] pray. And everyone says
[1:11:57] >> amen.
[1:12:00] I pledge algiance to the flag of the
[1:12:03] United States of America and to the
[1:12:06] republic for which it stands. One nation
[1:12:10] under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[1:12:14] justice for all.
[1:12:19] » Was it hard to sit down?
[1:12:22] >> Okay, we'll move on to approval agenda.
[1:12:24] Uh, council, I would I requested this
[1:12:28] morning. It didn't quite happen. Um, in
[1:12:30] under new business, I would like water
[1:12:32] discussion moved to A, please. And PEC
[1:12:34] would then become B.
[1:12:40] And the reason I'm doing that is I'm
[1:12:42] changing public comment tonight. Um, in
[1:12:44] public comment, it will be nonwater bill
[1:12:48] in our regular public comment. And the
[1:12:51] other public comment will become part of
[1:12:53] the water discussion. I want it all to
[1:12:56] happen all at the same time. That's for
[1:12:58] the change.
[1:13:00] And then I'm going to add CIP to the
[1:13:02] discussion time.
[1:13:06] Does council have anything else they
[1:13:07] would like to add or change?
[1:13:09] >> Do we have an executive session?
[1:13:10] >> I don't. Does anyone else have executive
[1:13:12] session? Okay. So, we will scratch 11.
[1:13:17] I move that we approve the agenda with
[1:13:19] changing item A on new business to item
[1:13:22] B, changing item B to A, and including
[1:13:26] public comment as a part of the water
[1:13:28] discussion, adding CIP
[1:13:31] under council reports, discussion and
[1:13:34] requests and striking item 11.
[1:13:38] >> Second motion by council member Morland,
[1:13:41] second by council member Baldridge. All
[1:13:42] in favor? I
[1:13:44] >> I
[1:13:46] motion passes 300.
[1:13:49] Moving on to community. Oh, I'm sorry.
[1:13:52] Approval of consent agenda. Is there
[1:13:55] anything you want that pulled out or are
[1:13:57] you ready to just approve the consent
[1:13:59] agenda?
[1:14:00] >> Okay. I would just to entertain a
[1:14:02] motion.
[1:14:03] >> I move we approve the consent agenda as
[1:14:06] presented.
[1:14:07] >> Second.
[1:14:08] >> Motion by council member Headstrom.
[1:14:10] Second by council member Balder. All in
[1:14:12] favor? I
[1:14:13] >> motion passes 300.
[1:14:16] Moving on to communication. Are there
[1:14:18] any Kichi civic groups or committees
[1:14:20] that are here tonight to speak?
[1:14:23] >> I see none.
[1:14:25] Move on to community announcements. Uh
[1:14:28] the only thing I'm going to announce
[1:14:29] tonight that I have is that this is the
[1:14:31] last weekend for the always Paty Klein
[1:14:34] over at the Kai Playhouse. Does anyone
[1:14:37] else have any announcements for this
[1:14:40] evening? I think we're we still have our
[1:14:42] farmers market going on.
[1:14:44] >> We do.
[1:14:44] >> And on Thursdays from 4:00 to 6:30 and
[1:14:49] um every Tuesday at the Methodist
[1:14:51] church, the community dinner.
[1:14:54] >> Those are the places to be during the
[1:14:55] week. Uh city minister Jensen, anything
[1:14:58] from the city? Okay, we will move on.
[1:15:02] Does anyone have any previous public
[1:15:04] comments that they would like to address
[1:15:05] at this time?
[1:15:07] Okay, Debbie, do we have any nonwater
[1:15:11] public comments tonight?
[1:15:17] » Miss Burkalter, welcome. Please state
[1:15:20] your name and address and you'll have
[1:15:21] five minutes.
[1:15:24] BK Burkalter 427 Sou Court Kchi Kansas
[1:15:28] 67067
[1:15:31] and I am first of all I want to say to
[1:15:34] the audience here I'm glad to see Kchai
[1:15:37] because empty seats make decisions. I'm
[1:15:40] really glad to see everyone here. As I
[1:15:43] stated, empty seats will make decisions.
[1:15:46] And so, my first opportunity that I
[1:15:48] would like to talk about is the um
[1:15:52] problem that I saw with our convenience
[1:15:54] store being broken into. I really had a
[1:15:56] concern about that. I think that's the
[1:15:58] second time if I'm not mistaken, and I
[1:16:02] almost thought three times over the 40
[1:16:04] years that I've been here, but I do know
[1:16:06] it has been too. And I do want to make
[1:16:08] sure that uh there is a concern about
[1:16:11] that especially with our police
[1:16:13] department in full to whatever standards
[1:16:16] they're in. Please please make sure it's
[1:16:18] the only convenient and gas store that
[1:16:21] we have. And so my heart was broken to
[1:16:24] know that it was broken into. I also
[1:16:26] have a concern about not having an open
[1:16:29] forum, an opportunity for our community
[1:16:31] to speak uh in reference to the park or
[1:16:35] any other kind of activities in front of
[1:16:38] the council. I know we might have an
[1:16:40] opportunity to speak with our mayor at
[1:16:42] some given time uh when permitted. But
[1:16:45] we would also like to have the
[1:16:46] opportunity or some type of free flowing
[1:16:49] uh uh form that we can speak to directly
[1:16:53] to you that we can get answers from you.
[1:16:55] I don't know if that's ever permittable
[1:16:58] uh besides this five minutes that you
[1:17:00] may or may not address. I don't know for
[1:17:02] sure, but I really would like to see
[1:17:04] something like that. And then lastly, I
[1:17:06] also was at the meeting that we had last
[1:17:08] month and this meeting this uh remark is
[1:17:11] in remarks to the fact that if we get
[1:17:15] our bills, a lot of people are not
[1:17:17] reading them. And I want to say that my
[1:17:19] husband was not quite happy about that
[1:17:21] because he does read his bills. We are
[1:17:23] not stopping out here to read the uh
[1:17:26] sign that we have outside. It's really
[1:17:28] nice. I love the fact that we've got
[1:17:30] news that as we pass by quickly, but I
[1:17:33] would also like the fact that if we have
[1:17:35] any information that it can be generated
[1:17:38] through our bills. Uh we are families
[1:17:40] that read our bills. We have 2400 people
[1:17:43] here in Keith Chai. And I'm sure that
[1:17:45] there are other residents here that
[1:17:47] would love to have a stamp spent on them
[1:17:50] and a one-page copy or some sort placed
[1:17:53] in the mail so that they can find out
[1:17:55] what's going on in the city of Kchi.
[1:17:58] Those are my main priorities that I
[1:18:00] wanted to share with you and thank you
[1:18:02] for the opportunity.
[1:18:03] >> Thank you, Miss B. Council, do you have
[1:18:05] any interaction that you would like to
[1:18:06] have with Miss B?
[1:18:09] >> Any response? Just actually, Miss B,
[1:18:12] were you talking about the park being
[1:18:14] able to present things from the park
[1:18:15] board to the council?
[1:18:29] » Okay.
[1:18:42] I I think we under communications we
[1:18:45] have each city groups and committees and
[1:18:47] that's kind of where I would expect that
[1:18:50] to have those kind of updates.
[1:18:56] » I I I agree. I think what you're
[1:18:58] actually saying is so I normally host
[1:19:01] let's talk about a kichi from 6:00 to
[1:19:03] 6:45 prior to a council meeting. Is that
[1:19:06] what you're talking about? Or you can
[1:19:07] just come in and talk. So
[1:19:10] >> So two council members can attend as
[1:19:12] well. So the mayor and up to two council
[1:19:14] members can attend. I if we don't have a
[1:19:17] budget workshop or some kind of a
[1:19:18] specialty workshop, which isn't usually
[1:19:20] the case, I'm normally here at 6:00
[1:19:23] prior to a council meeting and it's for
[1:19:26] 45 minutes. Anyone can come in. The
[1:19:29] council is invited to come. Two members
[1:19:31] can attend as well. So, it is an
[1:19:34] opportunity. Before budget season, I did
[1:19:36] have a regular group of people that were
[1:19:38] coming in to have conversation. I think
[1:19:40] that's what you're talking about. And
[1:19:42] then quarterly I offer um community
[1:19:44] conversation which is on a Saturday
[1:19:47] morning from 8 to 10 in the community
[1:19:49] room. Um the next one is October 24th
[1:19:53] from 8 to 10:00 a.m. Um again the mayor
[1:19:56] and up to two council members um are
[1:19:59] able to attend and that is a time for
[1:20:01] the community to come in and talk about
[1:20:04] anything um outside of the council
[1:20:06] meetings. So, I'm trying to make more
[1:20:08] opportunities where we can just have
[1:20:11] conversation um not necessarily inside a
[1:20:14] council meeting. Is that what you were
[1:20:15] trying to get to? Okay.
[1:20:18] You're welcome. Um and I think it does
[1:20:21] bring back what I tried to say at the
[1:20:22] last meeting. Um I realize that there's
[1:20:26] a lot of people that don't read their
[1:20:27] utility bills and so it feels like the
[1:20:28] announcements being included it's like
[1:20:30] what's the point? But I have heard from
[1:20:33] people that are like, why don't we get
[1:20:35] announcements in our utility bill
[1:20:36] anymore? So, I think there are people
[1:20:38] that are reading them and that will be
[1:20:40] something for the council um to discuss
[1:20:42] whether tonight or a later time to
[1:20:44] determine whether um we would like those
[1:20:47] announcements readded back into the
[1:20:49] utility bill.
[1:20:52] So, let's see, what was the other thing?
[1:20:53] Oh, the convenience store. Um I I didn't
[1:20:58] really hear any more updates from that.
[1:20:59] Do we have any other updates that came
[1:21:01] out of that? So, there's been no issues
[1:21:03] since and Key Police Department, thank
[1:21:06] you for all that you do and
[1:21:09] um yeah, and I will just keep you
[1:21:12] updated if we hear anything going on. I
[1:21:15] haven't heard of anything happening
[1:21:16] since then. So, you're welcome.
[1:21:20] Is there any other public comments for
[1:21:23] general public comment? Okay, I'm going
[1:21:25] to go ahead and pl close the public
[1:21:27] comment section.
[1:21:29] And we will move on to unfinished
[1:21:32] business which is a park update. City
[1:21:34] administrator Jensby
[1:21:36] >> mayor and council I don't have any
[1:21:37] updates since the last meeting I would
[1:21:40] add is got a call from leaders.
[1:21:56] » I I do have a question on the park. Um,
[1:21:59] have core samples been taken for the
[1:22:00] soil?
[1:22:01] >> They have not. We're waiting on
[1:22:04] contract time.
[1:22:10] » Okay.
[1:22:11] >> Is there a reason why there's been such
[1:22:13] a long delay from May until now? We
[1:22:16] still don't have any core sampling done.
[1:22:17] >> No, they had to develop
[1:22:22] review.
[1:22:33] Council, any other questions on the park
[1:22:35] or the playground? It's really after a
[1:22:36] playground update.
[1:22:37] >> What was the cost of that contract?
[1:22:42] » I think
[1:22:45] you
[1:22:51] anything else council?
[1:22:53] Oh, okay. We will move on to new
[1:22:56] business. First up is the water bill
[1:22:58] discussion. City administrator Jensby.
[1:23:01] >> Mayor, if you give me just a minute, let
[1:23:03] me pull up.
[1:23:53] All right. So, I will start I'm going to
[1:23:56] start with
[1:23:58] >> Could you do me a favor, please? Your voice isn't
[1:24:02] >> a review of
[1:24:04] where we are where we were where we are
[1:24:07] now. Uh last year the water rate
[1:24:11] analysis was presented to the Kichai
[1:24:13] city council to increase our water
[1:24:17] rates.
[1:24:18] The reason for this is our rates had not
[1:24:21] been adjusted since 2016. There was a
[1:24:24] rate analysis done and presented to the
[1:24:26] council in 2021
[1:24:29] uh for both the water and the sewer.
[1:24:31] Only the sewer rates were adjusted at
[1:24:33] that time. No water rates were adjusted.
[1:24:35] So the water utility was becoming
[1:24:38] insolvent, which means we were going to
[1:24:40] be upside down in it. When a utility
[1:24:42] fund like that becomes insolvent, we
[1:24:44] have to use property taxes to support
[1:24:46] that fund. We don't want to do that. So
[1:24:50] a rate study was done. It was presented
[1:24:54] to the city council and the city council
[1:24:56] made adjustments to the water rates.
[1:25:01] Our old rate old rates for a standard
[1:25:04] residential meter was $22. For a 2-in
[1:25:08] commercial meter, it was8730.
[1:25:12] And per gallon use was 1,000 to 10,000
[1:25:16] gallons, 733 per unit, 10,000 to 15,
[1:25:20] 783, 15,000 and up, 1068.
[1:25:26] The rates were changed
[1:25:29] to increase the base rate for a meter,
[1:25:32] $6.60, which made it $28.60.
[1:25:37] And we created four different tiers. We
[1:25:40] had a tiered system before, but we added
[1:25:42] an additional tier. If you'll remember
[1:25:44] through those discussions, through our
[1:25:46] analysis, we found that a majority of
[1:25:49] people use on average between three and
[1:25:52] 4,000 gallons per month. that is the
[1:25:55] average use uh for a home in Kichchi. So
[1:25:58] these rates were predicated off of that.
[1:26:02] So the base or the usage rate went from
[1:26:05] 0 to 5,000 gallons within that average
[1:26:08] use range to 875 per unit.
[1:26:12] 5,000 to 10,000 1095 10,000 to 25,000645
[1:26:19] and 25,000 and up would be 2467 per
[1:26:23] unit. One of the other factors that
[1:26:26] played into this is our need to conserve
[1:26:29] water and part of the reason for this
[1:26:32] tiered system was to encourage residents
[1:26:35] or our customers to conserve water. So
[1:26:38] the more you chose to use, the more you
[1:26:41] would pay. Uh this kind of the way it
[1:26:43] was set up. So these rates were changed.
[1:26:47] They were adopted and they are currently
[1:26:49] being used.
[1:26:50] >> Our commercial water rates were also
[1:26:53] changed. We found through our rate study
[1:26:56] that we were way out of whack from other
[1:26:58] cities when it came to commercial rates.
[1:27:00] Uh we were really, really high. So to be
[1:27:04] competitive, we had to bring those down.
[1:27:06] So, our base rate for a commercial meter
[1:27:09] changed uh to 4435
[1:27:12] uh down 42.95 and the base rate for a
[1:27:16] commercial meter uh was reduced $56 to
[1:27:20] $11848.
[1:27:23] Now, our commercial and industrial
[1:27:25] users, they use a ton of water depending
[1:27:28] on what their manufacturing process is.
[1:27:31] This is in line with what other cities
[1:27:32] do as well. Those were changed from 0 to
[1:27:36] 100,000 gallons at the same rate that a
[1:27:38] resident pays$ 875 100,000 to 250 1095
[1:27:43] and 250,000 gallons plus 1645
[1:27:47] >> what was the former usage
[1:27:50] >> uh I don't have that with me
[1:27:52] >> it was it it matched
[1:27:54] their tiers were the same as the
[1:27:56] residential tiers
[1:27:58] that
[1:27:59] >> oh if that was your question everything
[1:28:01] was the same
[1:28:02] >> and I also do you mind if I point out
[1:28:04] that these these rates that are right
[1:28:07] here that you have just showed. These
[1:28:09] are not the current rates. That's not
[1:28:11] what we get currently charged. Our rates
[1:28:13] have been adjusted after
[1:28:14] >> with Witchita.
[1:28:15] >> Well, they yes, these are old slides
[1:28:18] that were presented.
[1:28:19] >> Okay. I just wanted
[1:28:20] >> So, there has been inflationary
[1:28:23] >> Yes.
[1:28:23] adjustments to them to to
[1:28:27] >> Yes.
[1:28:27] to make up for what Witchah has
[1:28:29] increased their water rates.
[1:28:30] >> I just wanted to point that out. So, if
[1:28:32] somebody is out there going, "Wait a
[1:28:33] minute. when I calculated my rate, I'm
[1:28:36] getting charged a little more than that.
[1:28:37] Yes, right now.
[1:28:39] >> Yes, this was when the change was made.
[1:28:41] I just want to make sure that it's
[1:28:42] clear.
[1:28:44] >> So, everybody in the audience knows the
[1:28:46] city of Ki purchases our water from
[1:28:49] Witchah. We purchase it at a wholesale
[1:28:51] rate. We mark it up a little bit because
[1:28:54] we have a system that we have to
[1:28:56] maintain and run and that's what we
[1:28:58] charge for that. So anytime those base
[1:29:02] rates, those wholesale rates from
[1:29:03] Witchah change, we have to pass those on
[1:29:06] to and that's part of our
[1:29:09] >> and that is one of the other things when we say that there hasn't been any
[1:29:14] changes to our rates. We do not mean
[1:29:16] that there has been no increases because
[1:29:19] as you all know there are times where
[1:29:20] our water rates have increased and that
[1:29:23] is due to WA witchah raising theirs. So
[1:29:27] since 2016, we had not raised the base
[1:29:30] rate at all, but the tiered usage rate
[1:29:33] did change. So just to make sure that
[1:29:36] we're the same terminology there.
[1:29:38] >> And and additionally, that there's a 3%
[1:29:41] escalation rate that goes into effect
[1:29:42] every August 1st.
[1:29:44] >> Yes.
[1:29:45] That that wasn't there. Could you explain what the water fund is
[1:29:50] used for?
[1:29:52] ask to get the what
[1:29:53] >> you talked about the water fund was
[1:29:55] going to become insolvent. That's why
[1:29:56] you had to raise the rates.
[1:29:59] >> Yeah. Because we weren't charging enough
[1:30:02] supplementing what we were paying for
[1:30:04] water.
[1:30:04] >> I understand that. But would you please
[1:30:06] let people know what is that fund used
[1:30:09] for? Why do we need to have money in
[1:30:10] that fund
[1:30:11] >> in the water utility fund? Yes.
[1:30:14] >> Yes. We have to have money in there for
[1:30:16] repairs to the water lines, maintenance
[1:30:18] of the system, to pay personnel to work
[1:30:20] on the system. all those things that go
[1:30:22] with operating the utility.
[1:30:25] >> Thank you.
[1:30:28] >> So, this week uh we were contacted
[1:30:32] initially by a couple people on Monday
[1:30:34] about an increase in water rates. The
[1:30:36] mayor made us aware of couple people she
[1:30:39] had talked to as well and
[1:30:42] social media got a hold of it and really
[1:30:45] blew it up. So when anything like that
[1:30:48] happens, we here at city hall like to
[1:30:50] step back and look at things in
[1:30:53] perspective and that's kind of what this
[1:30:54] slide is about here. Um we know that
[1:30:57] there are some issues. We absolutely um
[1:31:00] and we're working through those with the
[1:31:01] people that have contacted us. Uh
[1:31:04] currently we've had 28 people contact us
[1:31:07] here at city hall about their water
[1:31:09] bill. Questions about it may have been
[1:31:11] too high or they just simply had
[1:31:13] questions.
[1:31:15] not abnormal. Okay. During any billing
[1:31:18] cycle, we have an average of five people
[1:31:21] contact us saying, "Hey, can you explain
[1:31:24] my water bill to me? It seems a little
[1:31:26] high. Why would that be?" And we walk
[1:31:28] through that. If we need to go out and
[1:31:29] check a meter, we recheck a meter, make
[1:31:31] sure it's functioning properly. So,
[1:31:34] we had 28 people contact us. We have 860
[1:31:39] utility customers. Okay. So, when we
[1:31:42] look at this in perspective,
[1:31:44] we didn't have a major problem in our
[1:31:46] system. We had 96% of people who did not
[1:31:51] report a concern. Okay. So, all of those
[1:31:54] people that came in, there were 28
[1:31:56] people. Of those 28, there were two
[1:31:59] accounts that had transposed numbers.
[1:32:02] Uh, one incident was from the public
[1:32:05] works crew misreading the number on the
[1:32:07] meter, which happens when you do meter
[1:32:10] reads. The other was uh when we entered
[1:32:14] the manual read here at city hall, two
[1:32:17] numbers were transposed
[1:32:19] uh 74 for 47. Um those happen all the
[1:32:23] time. Uh but the 26 other inquiries that
[1:32:27] we looked into, all of those were due to
[1:32:31] increased usage. No problems with our
[1:32:33] city water system, no bad meters. It was
[1:32:36] all increased usage that was reflected
[1:32:39] on the meter.
[1:32:44] So, one thing we've heard from people
[1:32:45] this week, there is no way that I could
[1:32:48] use that much water. And I completely
[1:32:51] understand. So, uh what we have learned
[1:32:55] through this process by talking to other
[1:32:58] cities, other water operators, uh and
[1:33:02] doing some research our ourselves to
[1:33:04] help people understand where that usage
[1:33:06] could come from. Uh we just came up with
[1:33:09] these uh interesting facts here. A
[1:33:13] typical residential irrigation zone uses
[1:33:16] approximately 8 to 15 gallons per minute
[1:33:20] depending on the number and type of
[1:33:21] sprinkler heads. As you can see on the
[1:33:23] chart up here for a 20 minute cycle
[1:33:26] depending on if your system has eight
[1:33:28] gallon per minute, 12 gallon per minute,
[1:33:30] 15 gallons per minute, they can use a
[1:33:33] lot of water in a 20 minute period. Uh,
[1:33:36] I didn't understand that, but there's a
[1:33:38] lot of water that's being dumped on your
[1:33:39] yard, especially when it's hot out like
[1:33:41] this. People increase their watering and use uh a lot more water. So, per for
[1:33:47] perspective, a six zone system running
[1:33:50] 20 minutes per zone every day could use
[1:33:53] approximately 1,200 to 1,800 gallons a
[1:33:57] day. And that equates to 36 to 54,000
[1:34:01] gallons per month.
[1:34:07] The mayor had asked about some of the
[1:34:09] ordinances uh as they relate to uh water
[1:34:13] and water utilities um and how we handle
[1:34:16] those uh when somebody comes in and we
[1:34:19] deal with these. So our ordinance says
[1:34:22] that on water leaks when a water line
[1:34:24] leak is located on the city side, so
[1:34:26] that would be from the meter usually to
[1:34:29] the street, the city side, the supply
[1:34:31] side, uh the city is responsible for any
[1:34:34] repairs and costs to repairs and loss of
[1:34:37] water. When the leak is from the meter
[1:34:41] to the house on the customer side, the
[1:34:45] customer shall be responsible for
[1:34:46] repairs and water loss that are
[1:34:48] occurred.
[1:34:50] We have a city ordinance like most
[1:34:52] cities that says people will do what's
[1:34:54] necessary to keep uh unnecessary waste
[1:34:59] or you know use of water uh to a
[1:35:02] minimum. Check your sprinklers uh
[1:35:04] hydrants faucets all other apparatuses
[1:35:07] in your house that are using water.
[1:35:10] And many people have asked can we have
[1:35:12] our meter tested? Absolutely we can test
[1:35:15] your meter and our city ordinance covers
[1:35:17] that. Uh meters shall be tested before
[1:35:20] being set. All of our meters are
[1:35:22] certified before they're set in the
[1:35:23] ground by public works. Uh any other
[1:35:26] time when there appears to when they
[1:35:28] appear to be measuring incorrectly. If a
[1:35:31] test is required by the customer and the
[1:35:33] meter is found to be accurate within 2%
[1:35:37] the meter will be deemed correct and a
[1:35:39] charge of this says 10. I think it's a
[1:35:42] typo in our ordinance. Uh, so we'll say
[1:35:45] $10 plus the amount equal to the actual
[1:35:47] cost associated with the testing of said
[1:35:50] meter. So what that says is if one of
[1:35:53] our water customers comes to us and
[1:35:54] says, "We really don't think our meter
[1:35:56] is operating correctly. Would you test
[1:35:58] it for us?" We can test that meter.
[1:36:02] We will test the meter. If the meter is
[1:36:04] good and it's operating correctly, the
[1:36:08] customer is charged for the cost of
[1:36:12] checking that meter. If the meter is
[1:36:14] defective, the city incurs the cost on
[1:36:16] that. We replace the meter.
[1:36:23] So, we've been looking at a lot of water
[1:36:25] bills and statements this week, and I
[1:36:26] kind of wanted to put this up. It's a
[1:36:28] little bit hard to read,
[1:36:33] but I'll walk you through it the best I
[1:36:35] can. So, the very top graph there is a
[1:36:39] customer here in town who said, "We use
[1:36:43] very little water and our water bill has
[1:36:45] doubled. We don't know why. Um we know
[1:36:50] we don't use water. Um we don't have
[1:36:53] many
[1:36:55] sinks or things in our in our house that
[1:36:59] use water. So we pulled up there for a
[1:37:03] month and we could see that in fact they
[1:37:06] were very low. I mean right down near
[1:37:08] zero there. Uh very very little
[1:37:11] consumption.
[1:37:12] Now you see there's three bar graphs
[1:37:15] there that pop up very high. Uh those
[1:37:20] indicate that
[1:37:22] something in the system water.
[1:37:26] So the first blue tick mark that comes
[1:37:29] up is represented
[1:37:40] one day
[1:37:49] 11 a.m.
[1:37:52] 11 p.m. Something occurred on that
[1:37:55] system.
[1:37:56] that caused a spike.
[1:38:11] Utility operators
[1:38:13] that uses
[1:38:25] So that goes on. It increases throughout
[1:38:29] the day. Through the pink bar there, you
[1:38:31] can see up to 4,800 gallons were used.
[1:38:35] Drops down to 1500 gallons. We can see
[1:38:40] on that bottom chart exactly what
[1:38:42] happened.
[1:38:47] Yes, this person did very very
[1:39:16] every incident or every
[1:39:19] resident
[1:39:24] go
[1:39:26] these incidents.
[1:39:29] >> So are are all three of
[1:39:33] >> all four of those from the same
[1:39:35] customer?
[1:39:37] All four of those graphs.
[1:39:39] >> Yeah,
[1:39:40] >> that was just to explain that one
[1:39:41] anomaly broke down.
[1:39:43] >> Okay. from monthly to.
[1:39:45] >> Okay, thank you.
[1:39:47] >> So, this graph here shows a customer
[1:39:49] that came in and they're like, there is
[1:39:50] no way that we could use that much
[1:39:53] water. Impossible. So, we pulled up
[1:39:56] their account. We can see that they are
[1:39:58] following
[1:40:05] those.
[1:40:15] didn't realize that was happening. They
[1:40:17] didn't realize their system was running
[1:40:18] so long. They used 12,000.
[1:40:22] >> So
[1:40:24] where it says the gallons and it's 20 40
[1:40:26] 60
[1:40:27] >> is that
[1:40:28] >> have to add a zero to that does not
[1:40:32] >> for whatever reason.
[1:40:33] >> Yeah.
[1:40:33] >> Okay. Well, I just when when we're
[1:40:35] giving these amounts and we see 20, 40,
[1:40:37] 60, I want to make sure that we're aware
[1:40:40] that that is 200, 400, 600.
[1:40:44] >> Yeah. Another scenario here
[1:40:49] where we look at they came in that there
[1:40:52] were issues with their system.
[1:40:54] We look at the system, we can see uh
[1:40:57] that their usage per week, another this
[1:40:59] was probably another sprinkler system,
[1:41:01] three days a week. uh their system is
[1:41:04] burning 800 gallons.
[1:41:06] >> Okay.
[1:41:08] >> So, this one says the hundreds and it is
[1:41:11] the hundreds.
[1:41:13] >> Is that correct?
[1:41:14] >> I'm sorry. This one is 8,000.
[1:41:17] >> Okay. Okay. So, if that's 8,000,
[1:41:22] is that 110,000?
[1:41:25] >> No. This this was
[1:41:30] which equals 11,000 gallons that
[1:41:34] >> So how does a resident know which when
[1:41:37] because I had a resident send their
[1:41:39] chart to me and I I don't know if it's
[1:41:43] actually tens or actual gallons.
[1:41:46] >> Yeah. And that's why we encourage people
[1:41:48] to come talk to us because we will walk
[1:41:50] them through everything that we have.
[1:41:52] >> Okay.
[1:41:53] >> Yeah. That's the best way to do it. So
[1:41:55] other things that we learned um during
[1:41:58] this process a small a very small leak
[1:42:01] can waste thousands of gallons in 30
[1:42:04] days.
[1:42:05] A10 gallon per minute leak which is
[1:42:08] equal to six tablespoons. Think of a
[1:42:11] dripping faucet uses 144 gallons a
[1:42:15] day,000
[1:42:16] gallons in seven days and 4320 gall in a
[1:42:21] month.
[1:42:25] A reverse osmosis system.
[1:42:29] Many people are having them installed in
[1:42:30] their house. A reverse osmosis system.
[1:42:34] For every one gallon of purified water
[1:42:36] its puts out, it discharges five gallons
[1:42:40] of dirt.
[1:42:42] You can see how quickly that adds up.
[1:42:47] So things we know, assurances that we
[1:42:49] can provide our community in this
[1:42:51] incident.
[1:42:53] First and foremost, our number one
[1:42:55] responsibility is to provide safe and
[1:42:57] reliable water to the residential meter.
[1:43:00] Make sure that our system is working
[1:43:02] correctly. The water that we are
[1:43:04] delivering to you is safe and reliable.
[1:43:07] All of our water meters are certified
[1:43:09] before being installed.
[1:43:13] Through this
[1:43:14] process we have we can confirm uh and
[1:43:18] prove that our meters are working and
[1:43:20] that we are selling the water that is
[1:43:22] sold.
[1:43:24] What we know is this year we have sold 3
[1:43:28] million gallons more
[1:43:31] in June and July this billing period
[1:43:33] that's in question than we did in
[1:43:37] we know that all the water that we
[1:43:38] purchased we sold. So there's not a
[1:43:42] surplus of water. HI does not have the
[1:43:45] ability to store water. Don't have a
[1:43:47] water tower. Don't store the water
[1:43:50] anywhere.
[1:43:53] Those numbers are consistent. Tells us
[1:43:55] we don't have a leak in the system. And
[1:43:57] it tells us that everything coming in.
[1:44:00] >> And just for clarification, I know he
[1:44:02] just said June and July. He meant June
[1:44:04] 30th to July 31st. It wasn't two
[1:44:07] different months. It was a 30 basically
[1:44:09] a 30-day period. It was just 3 million
[1:44:12] gallons one time that we sold
[1:44:14] >> during that period. Yes.
[1:44:15] >> Correct.
[1:44:17] >> So, we had a couple people say, "Well,
[1:44:21] we think our meter is inflating the
[1:44:22] usage." Okay.
[1:44:24] >> If a meter was inflating the usage,
[1:44:26] which there are no electronic moving
[1:44:29] components in it, a meter only monitors
[1:44:32] what comes through it. The water flow
[1:44:36] is accounted by a little spinning wheel
[1:44:38] in it. It's not hooked to an electric
[1:44:41] motor or anything like that. It it
[1:44:42] doesn't move unless water's flowing. If
[1:44:45] meters were were inflating the usage, we
[1:44:48] would have a surplus of water. We know
[1:44:50] we don't have a surplus of water. Uh we
[1:44:53] do not have the cap the capability to
[1:44:56] produce our own water. we purchase from
[1:44:58] Witchah and sell with
[1:45:03] After gathering all this information, I
[1:45:05] called the mayor. I asked her to come in
[1:45:07] and sit down with us and we met for
[1:45:08] about two hours and we presented her
[1:45:12] with all the information that we had.
[1:45:15] myself, public works director, utility
[1:45:17] billing clerk, city clerk, we all sat
[1:45:21] down, we all discussed this
[1:45:23] and at the end of the meeting uh we came
[1:45:25] up with these findings uh that all water
[1:45:28] meters that we checked are functioning
[1:45:30] properly.
[1:45:32] After investigation, all complaints of
[1:45:34] high bills are directly related to
[1:45:36] customer usage.
[1:45:38] All meters in question have been
[1:45:40] rechecked that extreme dry and heat
[1:45:44] contributed to more use by customers
[1:45:47] and water water purchased and water used
[1:45:51] are consistent. So those figures water
[1:45:53] that we that comes through our main
[1:45:55] meter and the water that we sell are
[1:45:57] consistent. There's no inconsist
[1:45:59] inconsistencies and that goes to where
[1:46:02] we have consumed system as a whole more
[1:46:04] than three gallon 3 million gallons
[1:46:06] more.
[1:46:07] >> I'm just going to make a point of
[1:46:08] clarification here. Um these were the
[1:46:10] findings that were presented to the
[1:46:12] mayor. These are not my findings. These
[1:46:14] were the city's findings.
[1:46:19] » So, we as a team agreed that we would
[1:46:22] put some additional steps in process to
[1:46:24] help our residential customers. Uh
[1:46:28] putting additional information on our
[1:46:30] social media site, which we have started
[1:46:32] to do. Start putting door hangers on
[1:46:34] homes when leaks are observed. Our
[1:46:37] public works department when they're
[1:46:38] just out and about routinely stops by
[1:46:41] people's house and if they see a leak
[1:46:45] mostly with their irrigation system.
[1:46:47] They see water running down the driveway
[1:46:49] or over the curb. They stop, they knock
[1:46:51] on the door, they try to get a hold of
[1:46:52] them, tell them, "Hey, you have a leak.
[1:46:55] You probably need to look at it." We as
[1:46:58] a city cannot fix those leaks or
[1:47:00] anything like that on the resident side
[1:47:02] of the of the meter. We do not have the
[1:47:05] authority to go fix somebody's. Okay.
[1:47:09] Put door hangers on when meters are
[1:47:10] replaced. In the past, when a meter was
[1:47:13] replaced, public works just went out,
[1:47:15] shut off the water, put the new meter
[1:47:16] in, hooked it up, turned the water back
[1:47:18] on, and people usually never knew about
[1:47:20] it. But we will start notifying people
[1:47:22] when they have a new meter.
[1:47:25] >> Uh the city
[1:47:27] is continually going through an upgrade
[1:47:30] meter process. We have
[1:47:33] lack of a better term, our system now,
[1:47:36] or our old system had what we call
[1:47:38] manual read units on it where the guys
[1:47:41] would go up, they'd pull the lid up,
[1:47:42] they'd flip the lid, wipe it off with a
[1:47:45] little rag, and take the
[1:47:48] Now we have a mix of electronic read and
[1:47:51] manual read. The electronic read sends
[1:47:54] the signal to city hall, integrates with
[1:47:56] our system, and produces the wall.
[1:48:03] There is a future option as we get
[1:48:04] switched over to this new electronic
[1:48:06] system uh for the opportunity for
[1:48:09] residents to have access to a portal
[1:48:11] similar to what Witchah does where you
[1:48:15] pay a small fee and then you can log on
[1:48:17] each month and you can see updated
[1:48:19] history of your water. So that's what
[1:48:22] we're working towards.
[1:48:25] Uh, and last but not least, we want
[1:48:28] people to know that you can have your
[1:48:30] water meter tested. And like I said
[1:48:32] before, these would apply if that meter
[1:48:36] was in good condition, good operating
[1:48:38] condition.
[1:48:39] >> Okay.
[1:48:40] >> Um, I would like to say that I am
[1:48:41] appreciative of city staff um, in doing
[1:48:44] their investigation. I appreciate that I
[1:48:47] was included in the meeting to hear
[1:48:49] their updates and their findings and
[1:48:51] that there are um, new steps they're
[1:48:53] going to take going forward.
[1:48:57] So, I talked to council member Headstrom
[1:49:00] today and
[1:49:03] trying to wrap our head around, you
[1:49:04] know, if we have an issue. We're not
[1:49:06] seeing an issue is what I'm saying on
[1:49:08] the cities. We don't have any major
[1:49:10] leaks. What we are seeing when we look
[1:49:12] at all these accounts is increased usage
[1:49:15] at the meter. What what is causing that
[1:49:19] increased usage, we don't know. That's
[1:49:21] what's frustrating for us, too. We just
[1:49:22] don't have the ability to to find that
[1:49:25] out. So, we like to try to use the tools
[1:49:28] that we have to help people find out uh
[1:49:31] what is occurring.
[1:49:33] Todd said, is there a way to find out
[1:49:36] where most of the complaints are coming
[1:49:39] from? So, this afternoon, we threw
[1:49:41] together a little pin dot map here of
[1:49:45] where the complaints are coming from,
[1:49:47] and
[1:49:49] they're somewhat consolidated uh up here
[1:49:52] in this this northern area of town off
[1:49:55] of Oliver, but there's a couple more
[1:49:57] throughout town. So, uh, we will use
[1:50:00] this information to see if there's been
[1:50:02] any changes to the system. We have not
[1:50:05] made any system, but could it be a
[1:50:07] pressure issue? Um, is there has
[1:50:11] something increased the pressure in our
[1:50:12] system that we don't know about that's
[1:50:15] creating more water to be pushed through
[1:50:20] different?
[1:50:22] So, this all of this information, the
[1:50:25] information we get from citizens when
[1:50:27] they come in, we use it to try to figure
[1:50:29] out what's going.
[1:50:32] But I think uh what I want the council
[1:50:34] to know and I what I want our resident
[1:50:36] is please
[1:51:19] There's a reason for it.
[1:51:35] You don't
[1:51:57] Very
[1:52:29] Everybody,
[1:52:48] » I will have more to discuss once we get
[1:52:49] through public comment. Um, council, do
[1:52:52] you have anything for city administrator
[1:52:53] Jensy?
[1:52:54] >> Um, I'm gonna wait till after public
[1:52:56] comment.
[1:52:56] >> Okay.
[1:52:59] Anyone else? No, not at this time. Thank
[1:53:02] you for the presentation. I really
[1:53:03] appreciate it.
[1:53:06] Okay. Um, for public comment, um, I kind
[1:53:10] of put out a warning not knowing how
[1:53:11] many people were going to sign up to
[1:53:12] actually speak. So, at this time, the
[1:53:15] number is low enough. You will each have
[1:53:17] five minutes when your name is called.
[1:53:18] When you come to the podium, please
[1:53:20] speak into the microphone so that it
[1:53:22] gets recorded and state your name and
[1:53:25] your address and then you'll have five
[1:53:26] minutes to share.
[1:53:28] >> Debbie,
[1:53:40] » welcome
[1:53:43] Jonathan Olson, 231 East Kodiak Court.
[1:53:56] Do we have the ability to display that?
[1:53:59] >> He sent me over the file.
[1:54:01] >> It wouldn't
[1:54:01] >> this
[1:54:05] » you couldn't you couldn't get it to
[1:54:07] >> whatever.
[1:54:09] >> Okay.
[1:54:10] >> All right. This is
[1:54:12] >> This is from Jonathan.
[1:54:14] >> Oh, this is from Jonathan. Okay. Thank
[1:54:16] you. Okay. Sorry. Thank you. Apologies.
[1:54:18] My bad. I
[1:54:19] >> So, I wanted it up on the screen so you
[1:54:21] could all see that. But, uh, I will
[1:54:23] start with this. Uh, I did a graph of
[1:54:28] I don't know the exact years, but the
[1:54:30] 2021 rates and I was given the rates
[1:54:33] now, which are very comparable to yours
[1:54:36] uh, three months ago.
[1:54:39] So, and I just wanted to emphasize the
[1:54:42] percentages.
[1:54:45] Uh, the basic rate went up 27% which is
[1:54:48] reasonable.
[1:54:51] The,000 to 5,000 gallons only went up
[1:54:54] 20%.
[1:54:57] The 5,000 to 10,000 went up 50%.
[1:55:02] 10,000 to 15,000 went up 88%.
[1:55:07] 15,000 to 25 went up 54%.
[1:55:12] And for us people that have fescue yards
[1:55:14] and bigger yards, anything over 25
[1:55:18] gallons went up 130%.
[1:55:22] And all at once, that increase to me is
[1:55:27] very hard to swallow.
[1:55:29] Okay.
[1:55:30] Now, my water bill,
[1:55:34] uh, last month it was $51,000
[1:55:37] $1,000 bill.
[1:55:38] >> Wait, wait.
[1:55:39] >> Excuse me. Could you say that again,
[1:55:40] please?
[1:55:41] >> Last month, my bill I just got for July.
[1:55:45] >> Uhhuh.
[1:55:45] >> Was 51,000 gallons.
[1:55:47] >> 51,000 gallons.
[1:55:48] >> Thank you.
[1:55:49] >> Okay.
[1:55:52] » I know about that one.
[1:55:53] >> I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[1:55:54] >> And so it's a $1,000 bill.
[1:55:56] >> Okay.
[1:55:57] >> I came in. I do have an electronic
[1:56:00] meter. So, I came in and it appears my
[1:56:03] August bill, which is the same amount of
[1:56:04] water, three days every week, haven't
[1:56:06] turned it off, is going to be under
[1:56:08] 40,000 gallons. So, I'm going to wait
[1:56:10] till I get my exact bill and then we'll
[1:56:13] come and talk. Uh, and it looked like my
[1:56:17] graph, there were no I looked at the
[1:56:19] graphs for both months, no peaks or
[1:56:21] leaky toilets or anything like that. So,
[1:56:25] uh, I appreciate Matt your openness and
[1:56:28] willingness to work with people.
[1:56:31] So, but anyway, with these rates
[1:56:37] on a dry month,
[1:56:39] my bill is going to be $600, $700 a
[1:56:42] month.
[1:56:44] Okay. So, I have a choice. Am I going to
[1:56:48] pay that amount of money or am I going
[1:56:49] to have brown grass?
[1:56:54] And brown grass is not attractive to
[1:56:56] people driving through Kichi or are
[1:56:58] thinking about moving in.
[1:57:00] $500 water bills are not either. Okay.
[1:57:05] And I guess my last comment is supply
[1:57:07] and demand.
[1:57:11] uh at the prices you have set, we as
[1:57:14] customers have a choice to pay the bill
[1:57:17] or turn the water off. And some of us
[1:57:20] will turn the water off, which means
[1:57:22] less money for you.
[1:57:25] So that's simple supply and demand.
[1:57:30] So
[1:57:31] thank you very much.
[1:57:33] >> Thank you, Jonathan. Council, did you
[1:57:36] have anything you wanted to respond to,
[1:57:37] Jonathan
[1:57:39] or not? At this time,
[1:57:41] >> I'm I mean, I'm Well, I'm just going to
[1:57:44] say I want to hear from everybody that
[1:57:46] has a concern.
[1:57:47] >> And I do I am taking that into account
[1:57:49] to make sure I ask the correct questions
[1:57:52] and formulate them at the end. So,
[1:57:55] please don't take it that I'm not asking
[1:57:56] you because I'm not interested and I'm
[1:57:59] not listening. I am, but I want to kind
[1:58:00] of get the whole picture.
[1:58:04] I would like to ask one question in
[1:58:06] council that he just brought up. So the
[1:58:08] recommended high rate on the over a
[1:58:11] thousand gallons is that part of the
[1:58:12] recommendation that came from Witchah
[1:58:15] due to conservation that the higher
[1:58:17] volume should be charged at a much
[1:58:19] higher rate to try to get people to
[1:58:22] water less.
[1:58:23] >> It wasn't necessarily charge a higher
[1:58:25] rate.
[1:58:33] Okay,
[1:58:34] >> this was one of many. But remember,
[1:58:49] » thank you.
[1:58:50] >> So the do we know what? Well, I'll I'm
[1:58:53] going to save my question till the end.
[1:58:55] It will be related to that.
[1:58:58] >> I think as we go through these also,
[1:59:00] it's important to note that in the tier
[1:59:02] system, you pay the lower rate for the
[1:59:05] 5,000. If you use 27,000, you pay the
[1:59:08] low rate and then the next rate and then
[1:59:10] the next. It doesn't I I had that
[1:59:12] question this week. So, you don't get
[1:59:15] charged just because you went over that.
[1:59:17] You don't get charged for every gallon
[1:59:18] of usage at that rate.
[1:59:20] >> Okay. All right. Go ahead. Did you have
[1:59:22] something else?
[1:59:25] >> Oh, if you want to pass it around, they
[1:59:27] can look at it.
[1:59:28] >> Yeah, you're more than welcome to do
[1:59:30] that. Debbie,
[1:59:39] » welcome Daryl.
[1:59:43] » Daryl Adterbury, 400 East Kodiak. Uh,
[1:59:46] first of all, thank you very much to the
[1:59:48] city administrator for his presentation.
[1:59:51] Uh earlier today I dropped off a letter
[1:59:54] with a lot of questions. Um working
[1:59:58] during the day, don't have time to get
[2:00:00] in here during the day to ask those
[2:00:01] questions. So thought that was a good
[2:00:04] way to do it to get answers. Uh so uh
[2:00:07] his presentation uh answered a lot of
[2:00:10] those questions and it's good to hear
[2:00:11] that the city staff is working on trying
[2:00:14] to find some of the answers to some of
[2:00:16] the questions I already have. Uh, one
[2:00:20] thing that I would like to move on to is
[2:00:22] the uh the bill itself.
[2:00:26] Uh, as I look at the bill and having
[2:00:29] talked with uh friends in in uh Maize uh
[2:00:36] Derby and Witchah, their bills look a
[2:00:39] little different and it explains a
[2:00:41] little different uh what your usage is.
[2:00:43] like uh Councilman Hedstrom said that uh
[2:00:47] you're build by tier. Well, on those
[2:00:50] bills, it breaks that out in tiers
[2:00:53] exactly what your your uh amount is so
[2:00:57] that it's very clear how much you used
[2:01:00] in each tier and how much your bill
[2:01:03] should be. Uh one of the things I don't
[2:01:06] know is uh is there an incremental
[2:01:08] charge for parts of a thousand? uh we're
[2:01:12] charged 5,000.
[2:01:15] Yeah. Okay. So, I did a calculation on
[2:01:17] mine and I used 19 units and it looks as
[2:01:22] though they were all charged at the tier
[2:01:25] four rate.
[2:01:26] >> Oh.
[2:01:27] >> So, I'll talk to you about
[2:01:29] >> Yeah. Just just real quick while it's on
[2:01:31] my mind. We build by the thousand. So
[2:01:34] when they read each month it's 999
[2:01:37] don't you don't get bill that rolls
[2:01:40] over.
[2:01:42] >> Okay. Yeah. And I look forward to the
[2:01:44] opportunity to come in and discuss when
[2:01:46] we both have time. So with that I'll
[2:01:49] conclude unless you have any questions.
[2:01:52] >> Anybody have any questions council?
[2:01:54] >> I don't I
[2:01:56] >> thank you for the letter. I haven't
[2:01:57] finished reading yet this evening, but
[2:01:59] understand that most of those have
[2:02:01] already been answered or they're going
[2:02:02] to be answered.
[2:02:03] >> Okay.
[2:02:04] >> Thank you.
[2:02:07] >> Debbie.
[2:02:11] » Pam, welcome.
[2:02:22] 302 Cheyenne Court.
[2:02:28] My husband built our home 27 years ago
[2:02:31] and I joined him 13 years ago when I
[2:02:33] married him.
[2:02:35] We love Kai
[2:02:38] and along with a lot of my people I
[2:02:41] believe that are still here. We were
[2:02:44] stunned when we opened our water bill.
[2:02:48] We have an almost $800 water bill. We've
[2:02:51] been running 12,000
[2:02:55] 12 units. Is that right? 12 units
[2:02:57] >> and we're over 40 now.
[2:03:01] So, our water uses has we don't feel has
[2:03:05] changed.
[2:03:06] Uh we do have um we do not have a leak.
[2:03:10] We do not believe that. We've checked
[2:03:11] our toilets over and over. We've checked
[2:03:14] our systems over and over. Uh, our
[2:03:16] neighbors had theirs reread
[2:03:20] on Monday morning and so I went across
[2:03:23] the street and said, "Would you come
[2:03:25] read ours?"
[2:03:27] Bless James Hart. I've never met James
[2:03:29] before, but bless James Hart. He came
[2:03:31] and read our meter. He said, "It's
[2:03:34] running properly." And he said, "There
[2:03:36] are no leaks. Is everything shut off in
[2:03:38] the house?" And I said, "Yes." And he
[2:03:41] showed us the little dial that goes and
[2:03:43] moves. He said if there was a leak that
[2:03:45] would be moving. Yeah, that would be
[2:03:47] moving.
[2:03:49] And so we thanked him for his kindness
[2:03:51] and then I made a way to city hall.
[2:03:54] I asked to speak with Thomas and I got a
[2:03:58] whole bundle of people. I got Thomas, I
[2:04:01] got our city administrator, I got um
[2:04:04] Christa and I got Ben.
[2:04:08] And we sat down and we had a really nice
[2:04:10] cordial conversation.
[2:04:12] But when I left, I realized I still
[2:04:15] didn't have the why of my water usage.
[2:04:19] Why is it so high for 27 years? It
[2:04:22] hasn't been high. Why now? I came from a
[2:04:26] plumbing family. I my I was a plumber's
[2:04:29] daughter, a commercial plumber. Big big
[2:04:32] business here in town or in Witchah. I
[2:04:35] was married. My my late husband was a
[2:04:37] plumber in big like Wesley and some of
[2:04:40] the big hospitals. So, I'm not stupid
[2:04:42] when it comes to water meters and water
[2:04:45] situations. My engineer husband is not
[2:04:48] stupid to things now either. He is the
[2:04:51] sigman southpaw on south on social media
[2:04:54] in case you want to know.
[2:04:57] Um, but in like I said when in talking
[2:05:00] to our staff who was very they were very
[2:05:03] gracious,
[2:05:04] all I was received was this.
[2:05:08] That's it. I wasn't offered a copy of my
[2:05:11] bill. I wasn't offered any of that
[2:05:12] stuff. I was just given this.
[2:05:16] And so went home, told my husband, I
[2:05:20] said, "Let's check the toilets again.
[2:05:21] Let's check the water." He goes, "I'm
[2:05:23] telling you, I don't think that's what
[2:05:25] it is.
[2:05:27] I want to know the why. Why is our water
[2:05:30] bill so high?"
[2:05:33] So,
[2:05:36] I sat down
[2:05:38] and I wrote an email. Every one of you
[2:05:41] council people, I sent one to you,
[2:05:43] mayor. Yes. I sent one you
[2:05:46] >> and I said, you know, I want to know
[2:05:49] why. Within two hours, Teresa sent me an
[2:05:54] email back.
[2:05:56] And it was real interesting because she
[2:05:58] not only sent me an email, you called
[2:06:01] me. I texted you. You called you. That's
[2:06:03] right. I have
[2:06:04] >> I still had her number from being on
[2:06:06] fair committee together.
[2:06:07] >> We connected. We did. We connected. And
[2:06:10] Teresa began to go down a process of
[2:06:12] different questions. Were you given
[2:06:14] this? Were you given that? I said, "No,
[2:06:16] no, no. I was given this.
[2:06:21] Save water. Don't waste it." Whatever it
[2:06:23] is. All right. So,
[2:06:30] I got a response from our mayor and I I
[2:06:34] saw the care. Paul sent me a message.
[2:06:38] Paul and Todd, you guys would send us me
[2:06:40] a message back, but you were like four
[2:06:42] minutes apart. I thought, "Oh, I wonder
[2:06:44] if they're discussing it." Paul was so
[2:06:47] gracious. He said, "We are aware of the
[2:06:51] situation." I'm trying to find my notes
[2:06:53] here. We're aware of the situation. Uh
[2:06:56] there is a and quote, "There has been an
[2:06:58] investigation launched. I was told that
[2:07:01] in the email. I was told that it would
[2:07:04] be discussed tonight and that there was
[2:07:06] concern about it and we would be taking
[2:07:08] care of things to find out the why." So,
[2:07:12] I felt satisfied. I'd heard from Teresa
[2:07:15] asking questions. I'd heard from Paul. I
[2:07:18] got your email, Todd. You were gracious
[2:07:21] enough to email me back. Thank you for
[2:07:23] that. Here's the thing. You said you
[2:07:26] talk start talking about rates. We don't
[2:07:28] care. We don't care about the rates. We
[2:07:30] don't care if there's a 3%. We care
[2:07:32] about our water usage. That wasn't
[2:07:34] necessarily addressed, I don't think, in
[2:07:36] the email. Then he went on to talk about
[2:07:38] how wonderful our
[2:07:41] people are at here at city hall and they
[2:07:44] are wonderful, but they didn't help me.
[2:07:47] All right. And so we felt really
[2:07:49] frustrated, especially after being here
[2:07:51] for 27 years.
[2:07:54] So
[2:07:56] after I had all of that had happened,
[2:08:00] um
[2:08:01] I'm trying to find my notes. I'm so
[2:08:03] sorry.
[2:08:06] Okay.
[2:08:08] And I do resp I do appreciate all the
[2:08:10] responses. I everyone that responded, I
[2:08:12] do appreciate it. But since Monday, I
[2:08:15] kept hearing over and over and over if
[2:08:17] you if you go through any neighborhood,
[2:08:19] you can see clusters of legal groups of
[2:08:21] people of residents saying, "What's
[2:08:23] happening? Why is my water bill?" I
[2:08:25] don't care if it's 28. There's more than
[2:08:27] that. There's got to be more than that
[2:08:28] or that haven't called you. There are
[2:08:31] more. I'm telling you, there are more
[2:08:33] people that are having issues because
[2:08:35] we're hearing it.
[2:08:38] Why the increase in the consumption or
[2:08:40] usage? That's our question. That's my
[2:08:42] husband's my question. Why? What has
[2:08:45] happened? It's more than just toilet
[2:08:47] zone. Something's not right.
[2:08:50] And what's interesting is that we keep
[2:08:52] hearing the same pat
[2:09:00] something you've done. We saw a
[2:09:02] wonderful presentation and I'll go back
[2:09:04] and share and take that into account.
[2:09:07] And you talk about the small percentage.
[2:09:09] Only 28 people. I still think there's
[2:09:11] more. only 28 people, but those 28
[2:09:14] people live in key time.
[2:09:18] And those 28 people may be the elderly
[2:09:21] person who can't afford their bill. We
[2:09:23] can. We're we're blessed enough we can,
[2:09:25] but they may not be able to afford their
[2:09:27] bill. What if it's that single mom who's
[2:09:29] struggling to even buy groceries and now
[2:09:31] she's got to worry about paying for her
[2:09:33] water? What about the young family who's
[2:09:35] already having a hard time paying even
[2:09:37] their mortgage? There are people that
[2:09:40] this has caused a big deal with and a
[2:09:43] big hardship in their in their family.
[2:09:47] This month's usage, like I said,
[2:09:50] may have affected 28 people out of the
[2:09:53] what 2400,
[2:09:55] but whether there's 20 28 people or
[2:09:59] there's all 2400, every one of these
[2:10:01] residents matter.
[2:10:03] >> And it's time for somebody to care.
[2:10:06] >> It really truly is. We are fortunate
[2:10:09] enough to know that my husband, like I
[2:10:10] said, can handle it. Not one at the city
[2:10:13] hall offered me a printout. You said you
[2:10:16] were available, but I didn't know that I
[2:10:18] was supposed to ask for it. Nobody
[2:10:20] offered me a print out. Not one. I
[2:10:24] didn't know I had to ask.
[2:10:27] And although you guys were kind,
[2:10:30] um, you know, told me to check for water
[2:10:32] leaks, gave me a wonderful little
[2:10:34] six-inch ruler. And Matt,
[2:10:39] you threw us under the bus yesterday
[2:10:41] when you talked about it's all on the on
[2:10:43] the residence. We felt so betrayed as a
[2:10:47] resident. We felt very betrayed,
[2:10:51] especially after 27 years in Kichi. My
[2:10:56] husband couldn't believe it and that was
[2:10:58] the clincher. That's why I'm speaking
[2:11:00] tonight.
[2:11:01] >> We're very concerned about what's
[2:11:02] happening in Kichi. We're here to
[2:11:04] question and discover the why we have a
[2:11:08] socalled water usage increase.
[2:11:12] So, council
[2:11:14] staff, elected officials,
[2:11:18] it's time for someone to stand up and
[2:11:20] truly care and investigate. Just like
[2:11:23] Paul said, there's been an investigation
[2:11:25] launch. Has there or is there just some
[2:11:28] kind of thing that let's pat him on the
[2:11:29] back and it'll go away? This will not go
[2:11:32] away.
[2:11:33] It will hurt our community.
[2:11:36] Something's not right.
[2:11:38] And right now, we are angry.
[2:11:42] We're We're angry. We don't We don't
[2:11:44] want to be. We're kind people. Some of
[2:11:46] these people back here can tell you that
[2:11:48] we're kind people. I got neighbors that
[2:11:50] came on both sides of us that we love
[2:11:52] dearly
[2:11:54] and we want to be good neighbors. But
[2:11:56] I'm telling you, something needs to be
[2:11:58] investigated here. Something needs to be
[2:12:00] checked out. There's more. do this than
[2:12:02] just high usage or toilets that that
[2:12:06] aren't flushing right or sprinkler
[2:12:08] systems that aren't working properly.
[2:12:10] And uh I could have said two more thing,
[2:12:12] two more minutes, but I took all that
[2:12:14] fluff out.
[2:12:15] >> Thank you. Thank you. I really
[2:12:16] appreciate it. I want to clarify
[2:12:18] something. Um and this is something I've
[2:12:20] tried to get clarified online to help
[2:12:22] people see a little bit differently. Um
[2:12:24] we keep saying 28 people in a community
[2:12:27] of 2400. No, no, no. It's 28 meters
[2:12:31] currently being discussed. That
[2:12:33] represents more than 28 people. So we
[2:12:35] have 28 meters out of what did you say?
[2:12:38] 880 meters. So that's we were comparing
[2:12:43] apples to oranges. It needs to be
[2:12:44] compared that this is 28 meters that are
[2:12:47] known at this time compared to the 88.
[2:12:50] >> One more reason why you need to find the
[2:12:51] Y.
[2:12:52] >> Thank you. Thank you. Council, do you
[2:12:54] have anything for Pam?
[2:12:56] >> No.
[2:12:58] Okay. And I will just say that so in
[2:13:01] that email, as Pam said, I knew that um
[2:13:05] she had addressed her concerns to us and
[2:13:08] I literally did send back I think it was
[2:13:10] like what 10 or 15 questions. What about
[2:13:12] this? What about that? What have you
[2:13:14] done this? Have you done that? Because
[2:13:16] as Matt said, these are all individual
[2:13:19] cases and I don't know who has a
[2:13:22] sprinkler, who doesn't? I don't know
[2:13:24] some of that. So that's why and I and
[2:13:27] because I like I said I've been on
[2:13:29] committee with Pam before. I had her
[2:13:31] phone number and I said these are my
[2:13:33] questions. I sent them back to her and
[2:13:35] said if you don't want to type out the
[2:13:37] answers you got my number. So when you
[2:13:41] guys reach out to us and that's how we
[2:13:44] hear about it. I'm fine with you using
[2:13:46] social media because sometimes that's
[2:13:48] how you find out you're not alone.
[2:13:50] >> Right. And and so if that's how you find
[2:13:52] it out, but as Matt said, when you find
[2:13:54] that out, yeah, reach out. Reach out to
[2:13:56] Matt. Reach out to us. We represent you.
[2:14:01] elected, every one of us up here was
[2:14:03] elected by you. So, thank you for
[2:14:07] reaching out,
[2:14:11] » Debbie.
[2:14:14] We have one here. It says it has two
[2:14:18] knives. as leg.
[2:14:22] » Okay. All right. Weird.
[2:14:25] >> Welcome. Hi.
[2:14:26] >> Hi. Hi. Uh, so a couple things. So, one,
[2:14:29] >> could you just state your name and your
[2:14:30] address, please?
[2:14:31] >> Sam Eglehoff, 469 East Kodiak.
[2:14:33] >> Sam contacted me.
[2:14:34] >> Yep.
[2:14:34] >> Thank you.
[2:14:35] >> So, um, two things. So, one, you know, I
[2:14:38] was one of the lucky people that got a
[2:14:40] 35,000 gallon, which was $600 in water.
[2:14:44] Um,
[2:14:46] and uh, so yeah, I wasn't pleased with
[2:14:48] that. Uh, and then I just checked my
[2:14:50] meter and it's going to be another
[2:14:51] probably 400 or 500 this month that
[2:14:54] because I haven't got the bill yet,
[2:14:55] right? We haven't sent them out yet. So,
[2:14:57] one thing there is it would be nice if
[2:14:58] we could get the bill sooner. So,
[2:15:00] because now we're already like three
[2:15:02] weeks in to August, right? Or almost
[2:15:04] four weeks into August. Uh, and I think
[2:15:06] I just got it last weekend. So, uh, so
[2:15:09] it'd be nice if we get a little sooner.
[2:15:11] The mobile app, maybe that would help,
[2:15:12] too. But I like that idea. Um, now the
[2:15:16] interesting thing that is different
[2:15:17] about mine, uh, so the Bob Kle part of
[2:15:20] this, uh, who lives on Dakota, my
[2:15:22] father-in-law, uh, I checked his because
[2:15:24] he's been out of town, uh, for since
[2:15:27] June 2nd. Uh, and so I looked at I had
[2:15:30] him send me his bills, uh, and he's kind
[2:15:32] of backwards. So he has and so so no
[2:15:35] one's messed with his, no one's been
[2:15:37] running toilets, no one's been flushing,
[2:15:39] you know, no one's been using any water,
[2:15:41] just sprinkler system, basically. Uh and
[2:15:43] so his is interesting because uh so so
[2:15:46] May 30th to June 30th he used 10 units
[2:15:51] which seems really low for uh like I
[2:15:53] think he's got like nine zones. It's a
[2:15:55] big big yard. Uh and that's got 10 zone
[2:15:58] or Yeah. So they use 10 units for that.
[2:16:01] Then June 30th to July 31st of the month
[2:16:05] we're talking about somehow he only used
[2:16:07] six units which doesn't make any sense
[2:16:09] to me at all like at all. So, uh, I I
[2:16:15] talked to the guy here this morning. Uh,
[2:16:16] I came in over the lunch hour and got
[2:16:18] the chart. So, the other problem I guess
[2:16:20] that you kind of alluded to, I got on
[2:16:22] mine, I got the graph. I got the chart.
[2:16:24] He's on an older system, I guess, so he
[2:16:26] can't have a chart and so I don't know
[2:16:28] what the deal is there, but uh, it would
[2:16:31] be helpful to have I don't know if you
[2:16:32] guys on the back end can get any more
[2:16:34] detail, but something doesn't add up
[2:16:36] there.
[2:16:36] >> Yeah, that's when I spoke about we have
[2:16:39] mixed meters. Yeah,
[2:16:40] >> the manual read meters. not give the
[2:16:42] fancy graph electronic,
[2:16:46] >> you know, as we transition over. That is
[2:16:48] our goal is to get everybody
[2:16:51] >> Yep. For sure.
[2:16:52] >> Yep. Yep. For sure. So, I I don't know.
[2:16:55] That just doesn't make sense to me. I'm
[2:16:56] not sure how that would work, but uh I
[2:16:58] guess we'll figure it out eventually. Um
[2:17:01] the other thing I thought that was
[2:17:02] interesting that I haven't heard
[2:17:03] referenced today is when I came up
[2:17:05] today, the guy at the front said that
[2:17:07] every meter was manually read last
[2:17:09] month. uh and that um there was a
[2:17:13] computer system issue and that's why
[2:17:15] they manually read everything. So I
[2:17:18] don't know. I'm just saying like a
[2:17:19] confluence of things altogether
[2:17:22] doesn't really it doesn't inspire a lot
[2:17:24] of confidence, right? So um so yeah. So
[2:17:28] I'm just saying like I think you know I
[2:17:31] would continue to dive into it. I I
[2:17:33] think based on all the feedback, it
[2:17:34] sounds like we're we're hopefully going
[2:17:35] to. Uh I think the the flow rate, you
[2:17:38] know, is an interesting idea. Uh doesn't
[2:17:40] solve my father-in-law's issue, but hey,
[2:17:43] if you know, if no one changed their
[2:17:44] stuff and now it's way more than, you
[2:17:46] know, the previous months or a year,
[2:17:47] maybe you do have you're flowing more
[2:17:48] through their uh if you didn't change
[2:17:50] your your your sprinkler systems and
[2:17:53] stuff. But um yeah, anyway, I think uh
[2:17:56] just, you know, I appreciate the time to
[2:17:59] speak and everything, but just, you
[2:18:00] know, continue digging into it, please.
[2:18:04] >> Thank you.
[2:18:05] >> Anyone have any comments or anything
[2:18:07] with Sam?
[2:18:08] >> I have a question for Matt. Uh so on
[2:18:11] those older meters, can we still see
[2:18:13] like a breakdown like you how you showed
[2:18:15] the
[2:18:16] >> No, you can't see any like additional
[2:18:20] >> manual on those meters. Public
[2:18:26] Okay.
[2:18:34] » Month over month compared to last year.
[2:18:36] >> Yeah. For last year. Okay.
[2:18:38] once a year just like this time.
[2:18:42] We had
[2:18:52] physically touchs
[2:19:00] it.
[2:19:04] Does not change
[2:19:11] electronic.
[2:19:21] » And Matt, just for everybody, Thomas
[2:19:24] said they start reading meters on the
[2:19:26] first and it takes them a few days. So
[2:19:30] somewhere between the first and 5th, all
[2:19:32] of the meter, all of the manual meters
[2:19:34] should be read. We can't do it.
[2:19:37] >> All right. And as somebody who did your
[2:19:39] utility billing for about 10 years, um I
[2:19:42] can speak to why we have the system in
[2:19:46] place and why it takes that long. as we
[2:19:48] alluded, even when we don't have the
[2:19:51] manual reads, um, because there's been
[2:19:55] there's usually always some manual
[2:19:56] reads, even if even if when we did have
[2:19:59] all of them on it, we had a different
[2:20:00] reading system at one point and we
[2:20:03] switched to Zenner
[2:20:05] to make sure that those are entered.
[2:20:07] After they get entered, then there's
[2:20:09] followup to make sure that if there is
[2:20:10] any reads that aren't correct, that seem
[2:20:13] a little off that we would take that
[2:20:15] time. And then um your bills are due on
[2:20:18] the 10th of the month. So that kind of
[2:20:20] puts that person in utility billing kind
[2:20:23] of in that position to be working on the
[2:20:25] bills that are coming in instead of the
[2:20:26] bills that are going out. And so that
[2:20:29] takes a couple days and then late
[2:20:31] notices. And then after that process
[2:20:33] because we want to make sure that before
[2:20:35] we send out the next bill that you have
[2:20:37] the current bill paid for because if
[2:20:39] we're not having that information on
[2:20:41] there then um you're like wait a minute
[2:20:43] no did I pay this? Did I not? and that
[2:20:45] causes confusion itself. So that's why
[2:20:48] there is a lag between when we um send
[2:20:51] it and I know that like I said I heard
[2:20:55] those calls for a long time and I was
[2:20:57] the one up behind the phone explaining
[2:20:59] those and talking them through. So, I do
[2:21:02] get the frustration with when you're
[2:21:03] like, "Wait a minute. If id had known,"
[2:21:05] and I will say that there was a lot of
[2:21:07] times where if we could, depending on
[2:21:09] how things were going, we would say,
[2:21:11] "Hey, um, this was abnormally large.
[2:21:15] Sometimes we don't notice it because
[2:21:16] it's not um if it it depends on the the
[2:21:21] percentage of increase."
[2:21:23] So, I do know that that's why the time
[2:21:26] limit or the times are what they are on
[2:21:28] sending out those bills. And that way we
[2:21:31] also had them sent out at the end of the
[2:21:33] month like that. So people who get paid
[2:21:34] at the end of the month or within the
[2:21:36] first week of the month still had the
[2:21:37] option to be able to pay it in that time
[2:21:39] period to kind of make it easier on our
[2:21:42] budgeting process.
[2:21:46] Debbie.
[2:21:48] >> Yes.
[2:21:50] >> Dennis,
[2:21:52] welcome.
[2:22:00] » Name's Dennis Bell, 408 Comanche Circle.
[2:22:04] Been in Kichi for over 25 years. Never
[2:22:07] met Pam. It's nice to meet you today.
[2:22:13] My concern is is not the rates. I
[2:22:16] understand the rates. Understand all the
[2:22:19] w water treatments in Witchah.
[2:22:21] Understand all that. And I'm perfectly
[2:22:24] fine with that.
[2:22:26] It's all to make everything better. I'm
[2:22:28] a conservative.
[2:22:30] I have a water barrel.
[2:22:34] I have a $4,000 whale.
[2:22:37] I do water my lawn.
[2:22:40] We water our beautiful flowers. My wife
[2:22:42] takes care of them. There are two of us,
[2:22:46] me and her. And I just recently retired,
[2:22:51] but I'm still working because I don't
[2:22:52] know how to quit.
[2:22:56] So, we have had our bill. We looked at
[2:22:58] our bills all for all year year long
[2:23:01] from January to now.
[2:23:04] Actually, we looked at our bill for the
[2:23:06] last 25 years and everything's been
[2:23:08] perfect.
[2:23:11] But somehow this July something went
[2:23:13] whack.
[2:23:15] We now have used 30,000 gallons of water
[2:23:21] that we've never used. I don't have a
[2:23:23] swimming pool. I don't use my sprinkler.
[2:23:27] I use my well. We use our well to water
[2:23:30] our flowers.
[2:23:32] All of that. I even had three neighbors,
[2:23:36] God bless neighbors,
[2:23:38] came and were looking at my meter as
[2:23:40] well. And I was running in shutting off
[2:23:43] toilets,
[2:23:45] faucets, water to the house, trying to
[2:23:49] figure out where could I be losing
[2:23:51] 30,000 gallons of water.
[2:23:55] And guess what? No leaks. Every faucet I
[2:23:58] replaced because I remodeled because I
[2:24:00] retired.
[2:24:03] Every every toilet or every uh item that
[2:24:07] I have in the house, I've replaced and
[2:24:09] used and checked.
[2:24:12] When you lose water, you hear it where
[2:24:14] you're losing water. I do not have
[2:24:17] neighbors that hook up a garden hose and
[2:24:19] then just start filling up their
[2:24:21] swimming pool with it.
[2:24:24] I do not have spongy ground. I've had
[2:24:27] sprinklers go bad. And guess what? After
[2:24:30] a while, this the ground gets so spongy,
[2:24:33] you know you've got a leak.
[2:24:35] You hear water leaking from a stool or not necessarily the faucet or a
[2:24:41] garden hose or something of that nature.
[2:24:44] So, I am very upset. It's probably the
[2:24:47] first time I've ever been this upset
[2:24:48] living in Kichi.
[2:24:51] and being here 25 years building my own
[2:24:54] house and selecting KI to live in I
[2:24:57] think it's my duty to at least voice my
[2:25:00] opinion of what's going on normally I
[2:25:03] don't have too many opinions about Kichi
[2:25:05] other than I love the place my kids were
[2:25:09] raised here and unfortunately one used
[2:25:11] to be here but lives somewhere else but
[2:25:14] I'm also thankful that I can pay my
[2:25:16] bills I'm also thankful that my kids are
[2:25:19] close.
[2:25:21] So, I went to the city. I asked them
[2:25:24] about my my bill, talked to the clerk,
[2:25:28] very friendly.
[2:25:30] He arranged a work order to have another
[2:25:32] reading done on my meter.
[2:25:35] And matter of fact, I was off that day.
[2:25:38] So, when uh the
[2:25:42] worker came out to check the meter, I
[2:25:46] asked him a lot of questions. He was
[2:25:48] very polite
[2:25:51] and meter meter checked out.
[2:25:54] Amazing.
[2:25:56] I checked my meter to the bill. Then I
[2:26:00] checked my meter at two two days later.
[2:26:03] Everything just seems as kosher as hell.
[2:26:05] I don't know what's going on here. I
[2:26:07] really don't.
[2:26:09] I pay bills. If I owe somebody, I pay
[2:26:12] them.
[2:26:14] And that's just the honest way to be.
[2:26:17] But what I don't like is as somebody not
[2:26:19] to check into what my problem is and I
[2:26:22] pay for something I shouldn't have to
[2:26:23] pay for.
[2:26:25] I give to a hell of a lot of charities
[2:26:28] and I think about a lot of people in in
[2:26:30] turn people especially people with fixed
[2:26:33] incomes.
[2:26:35] How are they going to manage this? But
[2:26:38] I'm fortunate enough to be blessed
[2:26:39] enough to take care of it if I need to
[2:26:42] because I have surplus money for
[2:26:44] emergencies.
[2:26:46] So, I'll go to I went to the city.
[2:26:51] He came out, read the meter. He said,
[2:26:53] "There's nothing I can do." He says,
[2:26:54] "You need to come to this meeting or you
[2:26:57] need to talk to Thomas." I went back up
[2:27:00] here and talked to Thomas.
[2:27:02] And the answer I got was, "You have a
[2:27:04] leak." "No, I don't.
[2:27:09] Do you know where my 30,000 gallons of water went?" "I have no idea," Thomas
[2:27:14] said.
[2:27:15] I said, ' So, what does it take to get
[2:27:17] my meter replaced?
[2:27:20] Well, it will cost you $250 to have your
[2:27:23] meter replaced.
[2:27:26] Huh? I paid for hookup when I built the
[2:27:29] house. Why do I have to pay for a meter
[2:27:32] if I have a suspect meter? Never once
[2:27:35] was it offered that they test my meter
[2:27:38] to make sure it was correct. I was told
[2:27:40] it's correct
[2:27:42] and that it's functioning.
[2:27:45] I wasn't offered any charts,
[2:27:49] any explanation,
[2:27:51] or I didn't even get a ruler, by the
[2:27:54] way,
[2:27:58] of what could possibly happen and where
[2:28:01] this water could be going.
[2:28:05] I'm telling you, something's not right.
[2:28:07] I'm not using that kind of water.
[2:28:11] I have no pool.
[2:28:14] If I have to pay for this, I I'd rather
[2:28:16] fill somebody's pool up and pay for it.
[2:28:20] So anyway, I I appreciate your concerns
[2:28:22] of listening to me. I do want you
[2:28:25] understand I love Ki, but
[2:28:29] this kind of drew a straw.
[2:28:32] Thank you.
[2:28:33] >> Thank you.
[2:28:37] Does anyone have any followup
[2:28:39] for Dennis? No.
[2:28:42] Okay. Okay, Debbie.
[2:28:47] welcome.
[2:28:53] Debbie Harp, 531 Prairie Creek Drive,
[2:28:56] Kai.
[2:28:58] I can second everything that's been
[2:29:00] said. I brought my last three bills.
[2:29:05] $250
[2:29:06] for the month of May,
[2:29:09] 97 for the month of June,
[2:29:13] 216
[2:29:15] for the month of July. That is a lot of
[2:29:19] up and down. I did come in and talk to
[2:29:23] Ben about the $250 bill. I got the same
[2:29:27] thing. There's nothing wrong. There's
[2:29:28] nothing going on. I said, "Can you tell
[2:29:30] me my water usage?" He said, "The
[2:29:32] application that we use not working
[2:29:35] right now in it is working on it getting
[2:29:38] it fixed and he did have my meter read
[2:29:41] and he called and said that it was fine.
[2:29:43] There was nothing wrong with my meter
[2:29:46] but the app that they use for the graphs
[2:29:50] was still not working. So that was the
[2:29:52] end of that. There was no other
[2:29:53] followup. Um, I was gone for a week in
[2:29:58] July. So I, you know,
[2:30:02] by 216, my sprinkler system is on the
[2:30:06] same timer that it's always been. Waters
[2:30:09] three times a week. And then I haven't
[2:30:11] changed or extended this watering time.
[2:30:14] I just leave it alone. In the example
[2:30:17] that Matt gave us of how much a
[2:30:19] sprinkler system can use, you used five
[2:30:21] days. We're only allowed to water three
[2:30:24] days. So that was not a fair comparison
[2:30:27] because what you showed was five days of
[2:30:30] watering and we're not allowed five days
[2:30:32] of watering.
[2:30:34] We have a restriction.
[2:30:36] I've even gone to and this is pretty
[2:30:38] silly, but when I'm warming up the
[2:30:40] shower in the morning, I'm collecting
[2:30:41] that water until it gets hot and that's
[2:30:43] what I'm using to water my flowers
[2:30:45] outside,
[2:30:47] you know? So I don't know what else I
[2:30:50] can do or what I'm that is so different
[2:30:52] that's making these bills go like this.
[2:30:55] I mean, that is from 250 to 97 to 216.
[2:31:00] Really, nothing's changed. Um,
[2:31:06] how do we know if we have an old meter
[2:31:08] or a new meter?
[2:31:13] » Okay. And I would encourage you to go
[2:31:16] out to Facebook. I know you're saying
[2:31:19] only 28 people contacted you, but I
[2:31:22] think it would benefit you to look at
[2:31:23] the Facebook page regarding this and you
[2:31:26] would see a whole lot more than 28
[2:31:29] people commenting on this.
[2:31:31] >> Yeah. And I think that was my plea is
[2:31:33] that we can't do anything we don't know
[2:31:35] about. come talk to.
[2:31:38] >> Well, I did and I was told nothing was
[2:31:41] wrong and that the application that the
[2:31:44] graphs come from was not working and
[2:31:46] they didn't know. He actually said he
[2:31:48] didn't know if it would be able to get
[2:31:49] it. So, I did come and that's what
[2:31:54] >> I got in response.
[2:31:58] >> I'm sorry, I was a little confused. Was
[2:31:59] that in May? That was for the $250
[2:32:03] and then the 97 and then 216 is the one
[2:32:07] I just got.
[2:32:08] >> That's just for water. That's not
[2:32:10] anything else.
[2:32:11] >> It's the app is back working now, right?
[2:32:13] Because we've seen some of that detail.
[2:32:16] >> Yeah.
[2:32:16] >> Or or the the detail if you have the
[2:32:19] electronic meter. So, we should be able
[2:32:21] to get that to you.
[2:32:22] >> So, I I don't know which kind of meter I
[2:32:25] have. And Ben never contacted me and
[2:32:28] said, "Hey, it's back up. You can have
[2:32:30] information.
[2:32:31] >> What I would suggest is come back in and
[2:32:33] have them.
[2:32:34] >> Okay, I can do that. But I guess my
[2:32:37] frustration is that it's automatically
[2:32:40] being stated it's not it's the people's
[2:32:45] problem. And I don't think that that's
[2:32:47] fair. We can't all be the problem. We
[2:32:50] can't all have problems with our meter
[2:32:53] and it not be anything to do with Kai.
[2:32:56] And I don't I'm not saying it's the
[2:32:58] personel. I'm just saying I don't know
[2:33:00] if it's the software that's reading the
[2:33:02] meters, if the meters are being read
[2:33:04] wrong, what the clog is, but there is
[2:33:07] something because we can't all have
[2:33:10] leaks.
[2:33:13] >> Just to address part of that is
[2:33:16] taking the same approach as Teresa and
[2:33:18] what we've said. I've got some questions
[2:33:21] at the end that more investigative,
[2:33:24] >> right? But please note,
[2:33:27] everything we're seeing, everything
[2:33:29] Matt's seen, I've talked to Thomas
[2:33:30] multiple times this week, we can't find
[2:33:34] a a smoking gun. We we we haven't found
[2:33:38] a smoking gun. We're still looking to
[2:33:41] see if there's a system issue. We
[2:33:43] haven't been able to find one yet.
[2:33:45] >> And just like
[2:33:46] >> everything go back to usage. So,
[2:33:48] >> and I think that's a very good point.
[2:33:50] That's what I was maybe I didn't
[2:33:52] communicate it clear enough. We we can
[2:33:55] only act on the information and the
[2:33:57] facts we have today. Okay. What we know
[2:34:00] today is that we don't have that
[2:34:04] and there's no problems.
[2:34:07] What we know is there's hiding. Okay.
[2:34:09] We're not saying anybody's fault. We're
[2:34:11] just saying that's the information we
[2:34:13] have. We want to help you investigate
[2:34:15] it. That's why each case is different.
[2:34:19] >> Yeah. We're not
[2:34:21] >> Yeah. Sometimes we can't
[2:34:24] what the usage is from.
[2:34:25] >> But if nothing has changed, my sprinkler
[2:34:27] systems runs the same amount of times,
[2:34:29] the same days of the week.
[2:34:32] I'm collecting the shower water to water
[2:34:35] the flowers. How come I have such an up
[2:34:38] and down when nothing has
[2:34:40] >> Yeah. And that's that's the frustrating
[2:34:42] thing for the city. We don't know that.
[2:34:45] >> Well, we we don't have the we don't have
[2:34:48] the ability to know that. We don't have
[2:34:51] Once that meter once that water goes
[2:34:53] through our meter, we don't have the
[2:34:55] ability to know what's going on.
[2:35:01] » I hear what you're saying, but I'm not
[2:35:03] accepting what you're saying because
[2:35:07] there's got to be an issue somewhere
[2:35:08] because we all have the same issue.
[2:35:12] >> We understand.
[2:35:13] >> I have no water running over my curb
[2:35:16] that you said. I have no soggy spots in
[2:35:19] my yard.
[2:35:20] >> The information we have is what we have
[2:35:22] to work on. That information may change
[2:35:26] and then we will work on that.
[2:35:29] What we're saying today is this is
[2:35:39] » well I I
[2:35:40] >> but we will yeah we are going to do our
[2:35:43] best as a city
[2:35:48] » I mean I don't know what else to say but
[2:35:50] there is something going on. Yeah, I
[2:35:52] think part of the issue either I think
[2:35:54] part of the issue too that has now
[2:35:55] arisen that I am hearing from people
[2:35:58] >> is the fact that on a news story last
[2:35:59] night you said the people use the water
[2:36:02] and they need to pay for it.
[2:36:04] >> That's the problem because you it's
[2:36:07] basically saying it's not the city's
[2:36:09] problem, it's the people's problem and that's I'm listening to them. I
[2:36:16] mean, I've been accused of not standing
[2:36:17] up enough for residents, and it's like,
[2:36:21] no, I'm taking all the information in
[2:36:23] right now. I am trying to listen. I'm
[2:36:25] listening to the city. I'm listening to
[2:36:27] people who contact me. I'm listening to
[2:36:29] the conversations.
[2:36:31] And I don't have answers. And the more I
[2:36:34] listen, the more questions I have
[2:36:37] because one of the things is that you've
[2:36:39] already stated is in a normal month,
[2:36:42] five bills.
[2:36:44] That's your normal in month is five bill
[2:36:48] issues. You now have a minimum of 28
[2:36:53] that you are aware of. And there's more
[2:36:56] that people I've had people tell me they
[2:36:59] don't care. Why should I tell them? So,
[2:37:02] and I'm like, "No, no, no. I really need
[2:37:04] you to go to city hall. I need you to
[2:37:06] log this in with the city." But that's
[2:37:09] part of it, too. So, um, it it was
[2:37:13] really difficult. I I I didn't even know
[2:37:15] there was a news story. I couldn't
[2:37:17] defend it last night. And I said, it's
[2:37:19] not my words. I don't know what to say.
[2:37:22] He said what he said. That's and all we
[2:37:25] can do is talk about it.
[2:37:27] >> And everybody that's here, if that's the
[2:37:30] way it came across, I apologize. It's
[2:37:32] not what And I think you can see that by
[2:37:35] the help that we will tonight.
[2:37:38] >> Yeah. There's there's no
[2:37:40] What we are offering to help people work
[2:37:43] through this.
[2:37:49] » I will make an exception. This is a big
[2:37:51] issue. I want people to be heard.
[2:37:54] >> Jonathan Olson, 231 East Kodiak Court.
[2:37:58] before coming to the city, you may want
[2:38:00] to wait till your August bill because I
[2:38:03] think mine may be 20% less
[2:38:06] and I think that would give you better
[2:38:09] context
[2:38:10] of yeah, we may have used the water but
[2:38:13] it wasn't our fault.
[2:38:15] So that may be a
[2:38:18] >> I have heard from a number of residents
[2:38:20] that are saying that when they had their
[2:38:22] meter reread by the city to see if it
[2:38:25] was leaking that they've been told that
[2:38:28] their number is significantly lower than
[2:38:30] what their July bill number was and that
[2:38:32] there was still like six days left. So
[2:38:35] that is creating even more questions
[2:38:38] like, "Okay, but if I never cuz you
[2:38:41] didn't get your bill to know you needed
[2:38:43] to change your watering patterns or that
[2:38:45] you might have a leak or whatever it
[2:38:47] could be or someone left the hose."
[2:38:49] Nobody knew that
[2:38:51] going into their August watering and the
[2:38:56] numbers are significantly lower and most
[2:38:58] of them I'm hearing are very close to
[2:39:00] what their numbers had been the month
[2:39:02] before. It's an anomaly. But I I heard
[2:39:06] you say like we usually only have five
[2:39:08] bills a month. We have a minimum of 28
[2:39:11] at this point that have been reported.
[2:39:13] So for me that creates a massive red
[2:39:15] flag that something is very much off and
[2:39:21] we don't have any answers at this point.
[2:39:24] So um if if council doesn't have
[2:39:27] anything else yet, I'm going to go back
[2:39:28] to Debbie and ask for the next person.
[2:39:32] That's it. Okay. I'm going to actually
[2:39:35] because some people might not have
[2:39:36] signed up. Is there anyone else that is
[2:39:40] attending tonight that would like to
[2:39:41] speak? Okay, go ahead. Yep. Come go
[2:39:44] ahead. Come up and just state your name
[2:39:46] and your address, please. And then if
[2:39:48] you would after the meeting fill out a
[2:39:50] form for Debbie to have for record.
[2:39:53] Thank you.
[2:40:05] Uh, my name is Joe Thompson and I'm the
[2:40:08] only one here that does not live in
[2:40:10] Kichi, but we own several properties
[2:40:13] right over here. Is it Rock Point or
[2:40:15] Rock Spring? I never
[2:40:16] >> Rock Point.
[2:40:17] And I want to talk about one
[2:40:20] in particular because it's only three
[2:40:21] years old. We bought it new in uh the
[2:40:24] summer of 2023.
[2:40:27] And I happen to have information uh
[2:40:29] about two different points in time. But
[2:40:32] before that goes in, we were talking I
[2:40:35] think you and I about the tier system.
[2:40:37] No, that was that was Thomas. Uh and I
[2:40:42] need to talk to him about that.
[2:40:44] Anyway, I was thinking it was you. I
[2:40:46] don't remember.
[2:40:47] >> Yeah. Um I want to talk about 2332
[2:40:54] East Cheyenne Court.
[2:40:57] right over here about two miles. And I
[2:41:00] want to look at
[2:41:03] the
[2:41:05] July 2025 data and the July 2026 data.
[2:41:12] Okay, that I'm doing this kind of slow.
[2:41:16] The usage for the 2025 data was nine
[2:41:20] 9,000 gallons as I understand it. And
[2:41:24] the total for the water just the water
[2:41:26] was $116.15.
[2:41:30] That's reasonable because you know some
[2:41:32] of that water went into the uh into the
[2:41:35] uh h house and so forth. Now then now I
[2:41:39] want to talk about uh the one a year
[2:41:42] later now. Also that house has been
[2:41:45] vacant for a year. We haven't been
[2:41:47] aggressive enough to get it ready to go.
[2:41:49] We're real picky. I mean if my wife does
[2:41:53] this and if she finds anything I I had
[2:41:56] to stay outside.
[2:41:58] All right. He's mean. Small but mean.
[2:42:02] All right.
[2:42:04] The uh
[2:42:06] >> What's the matter? I'm trying to be
[2:42:07] straight.
[2:42:08] >> We can see her face.
[2:42:09] >> Okay. The you the usage for July of this
[2:42:13] year and nobody's living in there, okay,
[2:42:18] is 15, not nine.
[2:42:21] Now, let me also tell you, I'm the guy
[2:42:23] that controls the sprinklers and I it is
[2:42:27] year round. You know, once March gets
[2:42:30] here, it starts up and then in October
[2:42:32] or whenever we shut it down. But it is
[2:42:35] the same pattern every time. There's uh
[2:42:39] there's three circuits on it. The first
[2:42:43] on both sides, okay, because it's a
[2:42:44] duplex. And the first circuit runs for 8
[2:42:48] minutes and it starts at 12:15 a.m. on
[2:42:52] Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Okay. At
[2:42:57] 12:30 uh a.m. uh circuit 2 starts 8
[2:43:02] minutes.
[2:43:04] And then uh on circuit 3, it starts at
[2:43:08] uh uh 12 uh 12:45 a.m. And guess what?
[2:43:13] It's eight minutes on 2332 and for some
[2:43:16] reason I've got it for 10 minutes on
[2:43:18] 2334.
[2:43:19] All right, but I'm just talking about
[2:43:21] 2332 right now, but they're the same
[2:43:24] basically
[2:43:27] for
[2:43:29] 2026. For July 2026,
[2:43:33] I had 15,000 gallons of usage.
[2:43:38] That can't be right. And I have a
[2:43:41] beautiful bill here for $21655.
[2:43:46] That's that's almost exactly $100 more
[2:43:51] than a year ago. And remember both the
[2:43:54] both both times that includes the
[2:43:56] domestic water that we use in the house.
[2:43:58] Although for this last month and a half,
[2:44:01] we haven't had a tenant. And be honest
[2:44:03] with you, we haven't been very
[2:44:03] aggressive about getting it because
[2:44:05] we've got other things going on. So
[2:44:07] there's not very much uh house water
[2:44:10] being used, you know, other than, you
[2:44:13] know, go to the bathroom there and
[2:44:15] that's about it. Uh we don't cook
[2:44:17] anything there. We don't make anything.
[2:44:18] We don't run the dishwasher, uh blah blah. But and the uh and the the uh
[2:44:26] landscaping, you know, the sprinkler
[2:44:28] system, it ain't changed.
[2:44:31] And anyway, so that's where we are. I
[2:44:33] don't know what's going on, but when I
[2:44:35] saw this 216 versus 116, I thought
[2:44:38] that's wrong.
[2:44:39] Something's crazy about this.
[2:44:42] Anyway, uh for $500 a piece, I'll take
[2:44:45] it and I'll be happy. So,
[2:44:48] >> I have a question. I have a question for
[2:44:50] you.
[2:44:50] >> Yes, ma'am.
[2:44:51] >> Um because I had to play with this a
[2:44:54] little bit myself. We were on twice a
[2:44:57] week watering last year. Is that
[2:44:59] correct?
[2:44:59] >> No.
[2:45:00] >> Tuesdays and Thursdays last year?
[2:45:02] >> I don't believe so.
[2:45:03] >> Weren't we on that drought restriction
[2:45:05] last year? Still two?
[2:45:07] >> I thought we were.
[2:45:08] >> Yeah. Yeah, I thought we were too. And
[2:45:09] then this year we're allowed three days
[2:45:11] a week.
[2:45:13] >> So, did you change Do you know remember
[2:45:16] if you changed your sprinkler?
[2:45:18] >> Ma'am, my memory is about as long as my
[2:45:20] little dog.
[2:45:21] >> It's just Yeah, just just trying to just
[2:45:24] figure things out.
[2:45:26] >> I'm just trying to figure things out.
[2:45:28] >> That's good. Um because I know that
[2:45:30] because our our city sign was broken and
[2:45:33] it was stuck telling people to water
[2:45:35] only on Tuesdays and Thursdays for a
[2:45:37] long time even though we had changed to
[2:45:39] the new watering schedule. So I guess
[2:45:43] there's a possibility that there could
[2:45:44] be some water change there maybe if
[2:45:46] you're going from watering two days to
[2:45:48] three days but I don't know if it would
[2:45:51] be that much of a difference. So, I was
[2:45:53] just asking if you remember if you were
[2:45:55] doing the two days a week last year.
[2:45:57] >> To be honest with you, I don't remember.
[2:45:59] >> Okay.
[2:45:59] >> And and personally, and we have Bermuda
[2:46:02] grass. I think that's kind of rare
[2:46:04] around here. Okay. Everybody else,
[2:46:06] >> my neighbor has it.
[2:46:07] >> Uh, you know, uh, you know,
[2:46:11] >> fescue.
[2:46:12] >> Not fescue.
[2:46:13] >> Yeah. Fescue.
[2:46:14] >> You have fescue.
[2:46:16] >> No, you have Bermuda on my duplexes that
[2:46:19] we own in Bair.
[2:46:21] >> Those are all fescue. And those are the
[2:46:23] most luscious yards you've ever seen.
[2:46:24] And guess what? It runs it it runs three
[2:46:29] days a week or three nights a week. We
[2:46:30] turn on right after midnight and it's
[2:46:32] almost now there's four circuits there,
[2:46:34] not three. It's a bigger lot.
[2:46:36] >> And uh it it u
[2:46:40] it you know it runs eight minutes and then I think nine and
[2:46:44] then for the last one, the bigger
[2:46:46] backyard, it's 10 minutes,
[2:46:48] >> right? And it's and it's staying very
[2:46:51] close to the $115 to $130 range.
[2:46:54] >> Right.
[2:46:55] >> Well, and then you also said that
[2:46:57] there's no domestic water being used
[2:46:59] inside the house.
[2:47:00] >> Not not inside 23. You know, I say that
[2:47:02] it's not that there's no because like I
[2:47:04] said, we my wife and I might work on
[2:47:06] something.
[2:47:07] >> We're washing stuff and so it's not, you
[2:47:09] know,
[2:47:11] that dishwasher.
[2:47:12] >> Yes. You know.
[2:47:13] >> Okay. Thank you.
[2:47:15] >> Okay. I'm going to put out again. Is
[2:47:17] there anyone else that hasn't spoken
[2:47:19] that would like to speak?
[2:47:21] >> Oh, wait one second. Wait one second,
[2:47:23] Doug. Um,
[2:47:24] >> Joe, I'd also encourage you to uh get a
[2:47:26] hold of Thomas and make sure he checks
[2:47:28] for a leak just in case there may be a
[2:47:30] small leak in the
[2:47:32] >> in inside or something.
[2:47:35] >> I I'm I would still encourage you to uh
[2:47:38] check the meter for have Thomas check
[2:47:40] the meter for a link and make sure
[2:47:42] nothing's turning.
[2:47:45] Yeah, you should be electronic.
[2:47:50] » Yeah. Okay.
[2:47:52] >> Thank you, Doug.
[2:47:58] » Doug Wan, 392 East Cheyenne Court. Um,
[2:48:03] I I don't know if you guys can answer
[2:48:05] this, but I I watched the news clip last
[2:48:07] night, but then I watched it on the app,
[2:48:10] channel 12 app,
[2:48:12] >> and channel 12 left something out that
[2:48:15] was on the app, and that was this the lady from CARG, whose water usage
[2:48:21] went from 4,000 to 10,000.
[2:48:25] And I want to know if anybody's looked
[2:48:27] into that or has she come over here to
[2:48:29] talk about that uh for no
[2:48:32] They they they don't have they don't
[2:48:34] have a yard. I'm sure they use water
[2:48:36] inside, but the the jump I would hate to
[2:48:39] lose car, okay, for that. And I I've had
[2:48:43] a couple neighbors, not Pam and Todd,
[2:48:46] that they want to sell their house if
[2:48:48] this is going to keep up. And I told one
[2:48:50] couple, well, you can sell it, but who's
[2:48:52] going to want to move in if these water
[2:48:54] rates are so high? And so I just I
[2:48:57] didn't know if anybody has had a chance
[2:48:58] to talk to Car yet or not.
[2:49:01] Okay.
[2:49:13] » She came tonight. She was here.
[2:49:16] >> She was here for a while.
[2:49:18] >> Okay.
[2:49:24] » Right.
[2:49:25] >> But I guess it's our fault. I guess it's
[2:49:28] her fault. Okay. We're working through
[2:49:29] this, Doug.
[2:49:31] >> U and one last thing on freedom of
[2:49:33] speech is internet. We are free to say
[2:49:37] whatever we'd like on that.
[2:49:39] >> Yes, you are. Thank you, Doug. Come on
[2:49:42] up,
[2:49:44] Andrea.
[2:49:46] >> You're welcome.
[2:49:48] >> Angela Lasage, 347 East Kodiak. Uh my
[2:49:52] husband and I have lived in Kichai for
[2:49:55] almost 16 years and we own a lovely
[2:49:59] property that we have almost a half acre
[2:50:02] and we do water our yard. Well, we did
[2:50:05] water our yard until this week. My
[2:50:08] husband yesterday shaved our backyard to
[2:50:12] the ground and and it is going to stay
[2:50:15] that way. We have shut our water system
[2:50:18] off and and we two months ago, three
[2:50:22] months ago, we had 22 usage
[2:50:26] two two months in a row and then we had
[2:50:30] 15
[2:50:32] uh when it rained because we didn't we
[2:50:35] have a sensor. We had 36 this month. Our
[2:50:39] water alone was $660ome dollars and yes,
[2:50:43] we can pay that. But we have shut our
[2:50:46] system off and we will not turn it on
[2:50:49] next year. We are done. My husband's
[2:50:52] ready to move.
[2:50:54] But um
[2:50:56] there is something wrong. And and we
[2:50:58] know that the meter was read right
[2:51:01] because we went out and looked and
[2:51:02] looked at what it was this month before
[2:51:06] we shut it off. We'd only used 12. So
[2:51:09] because we have cut back because of the
[2:51:12] fact that the um it's so hot that you
[2:51:15] don't you're not doing much good anyway
[2:51:17] except frying it. So, but um and so I am
[2:51:22] reading it every day because there's
[2:51:24] something that wasn't right. We've never
[2:51:27] used 36,000. My daughter has a swimming
[2:51:30] pool. It takes 22,000 gallons to fill
[2:51:33] her pool. My husband said if we had
[2:51:35] 36,000 gallons that we used, we would
[2:51:39] see something somewhere. And so when I'm
[2:51:42] out there looking every day, I get down
[2:51:44] there on my knees, pull up the thing.
[2:51:46] Um, we have no leaks because it's not
[2:51:49] going around. We know that. We know our
[2:51:52] plumbing in our house is good. We have
[2:51:54] no leaks. So, there is something that
[2:51:57] has caused that spike. So, you know, we
[2:52:01] I think we've had times in the past
[2:52:02] we've even used 24, but 36
[2:52:06] is incredible. So, that's all I Thank
[2:52:10] you for listening. Um, I hope you guys
[2:52:13] can find something that has caused that
[2:52:16] those meters to spike. Um, because
[2:52:19] there's several of us in the same same
[2:52:21] neighborhood. U, but yet our neighbors
[2:52:25] who said they expected their bill to be
[2:52:27] very high because they had watered uh
[2:52:30] every every opportunity that they had
[2:52:32] for the three three days. um theirs went
[2:52:36] down and they were like and they said,
[2:52:39] "Well, how'd your skies go spike up that
[2:52:42] much?" And I was like, "We have no
[2:52:43] idea." But uh anyway, uh we will not
[2:52:47] turn our meter on. I hope the city
[2:52:49] doesn't send us their nasty notes next
[2:52:51] year on doing our backflow because we're
[2:52:54] not turning it on. We'll we'll do some
[2:52:57] sprinkling in the front yard with hand
[2:53:00] sprinklers, but until until there's some
[2:53:03] kind of resolution, it's it's ridiculous
[2:53:06] to pay that kind of water rate. Thank
[2:53:08] you.
[2:53:08] >> You're welcome.
[2:53:10] >> Thank you. Okay, one last call. Is there
[2:53:13] anyone else that wants to speak before?
[2:53:18] >> Yes, you may
[2:53:21] to Matt.
[2:53:35] Let's say that you're
[2:53:46] correct.
[2:53:47] >> Okay. Is there anyone else? I I I just
[2:53:50] have it hasn't spoken already. Um I
[2:53:53] don't see anybody else. Um, I would just
[2:53:55] like to ask for who is attending. Is
[2:53:58] there anyone here who has a high water
[2:54:01] bill that they did not report it to the
[2:54:03] city?
[2:54:06] Okay. So, we've we've got we've got more
[2:54:09] that have not reported to the city. So,
[2:54:12] just even in attendance.
[2:54:15] >> Yes. But not for your new one. Okay. So,
[2:54:18] I have one other person that contacted
[2:54:20] me directly, and this comment is out on
[2:54:23] social media, so anyone can see it, and
[2:54:26] I'm actually going to read it because
[2:54:28] this bill was so outrageous that I was
[2:54:31] like, I I can't wrap my head around
[2:54:34] this. Um, their previous reading was six
[2:54:39] and then it was 62.
[2:54:43] So,
[2:54:45] this account holder found out that for
[2:54:48] several months there was zero reading on
[2:54:50] their bill and a few with just one.
[2:54:55] There seems to be an issue with them
[2:54:58] referring to the city reading the meters
[2:55:00] correctly. Um,
[2:55:05] I know this is an issue that has
[2:55:06] happened before and obviously it got I
[2:55:09] guess their bill I I don't know. The
[2:55:10] only thing I can think of is it got
[2:55:12] caught back up or something. Um,
[2:55:15] and I know that the city has talked
[2:55:17] about one of the reasons they took
[2:55:19] announcements off the utility bills is
[2:55:21] because people don't read their bills.
[2:55:24] and the people that made this comment,
[2:55:28] I know who they are and are usually very
[2:55:33] attentive to detail.
[2:55:35] And I think that there's a lot of people
[2:55:38] who get their bill, they see how much it
[2:55:40] is, and they just write their check or
[2:55:43] they just pay it, and they're not
[2:55:45] necessarily looking at it because it's
[2:55:48] generally about the same. Um, I was very
[2:55:51] shocked that this detail got missed, but
[2:55:54] however, it does tell me that there was
[2:55:55] at least one bill out there that had not
[2:55:58] been reading the water readings. Um, and
[2:56:02] so that is another anomaly in the middle
[2:56:07] of all of these bills. And so I guess
[2:56:11] part of my question is have we
[2:56:13] investigated the system to make sure
[2:56:16] this wasn't happening to at least the 28
[2:56:19] that there was not some time where their
[2:56:22] bill was coming in at zero or one and
[2:56:25] people had not looked at their bill to
[2:56:28] see that they did not get a correct
[2:56:30] read. Has that been investigated? Yeah,
[2:56:32] I just
[2:56:36] » only one account because we just had
[2:56:38] this happen a few months ago where the
[2:56:40] council just
[2:56:41] >> there was 20 17 or 20 accounts that that
[2:56:44] had been happening to.
[2:56:52] » But they weren't built. That's not
[2:56:55] >> But they weren't build for their water
[2:56:57] usage,
[2:56:59] >> but we had still paid for it.
[2:57:01] >> Let me just
[2:57:05] because that had gone on for 20 months
[2:57:07] >> because Yep. So,
[2:57:09] >> yeah, I think it was the MIU the
[2:57:11] electronic.
[2:57:15] » Okay.
[2:57:15] >> Yeah, let me look back.
[2:57:17] >> But so, could then could this have been
[2:57:22] one of those that got missed in that?
[2:57:25] >> I can't.
[2:57:26] >> Okay. cuz um this person also phoned me
[2:57:32] regarding her situation
[2:57:35] >> um and asked me
[2:57:37] um if it is found that we were not
[2:57:42] properly billing them
[2:57:44] in the past so that it wasn't recording
[2:57:48] correctly how much water they were being
[2:57:51] used regularly
[2:57:54] um whether it was the MIU or the meter
[2:57:56] or what was being recorded versus build.
[2:57:59] And now because we did a manual read, it
[2:58:02] was a catchup for all those months,
[2:58:05] would they be eligible to be charged at
[2:58:08] the lower tiered rate because the lower
[2:58:11] tiered rate was actually what they were
[2:58:13] using? And then all of a sudden, we're
[2:58:16] playing catchup and we're charging them
[2:58:19] at the highest tier that we possibly
[2:58:21] can. And I think that based on what we
[2:58:24] have done in the past that and I told
[2:58:27] her I would bring it to she had a
[2:58:28] previous engagement and couldn't come
[2:58:30] this evening
[2:58:32] that I would I thought that we would
[2:58:34] honor that. I told her I can't speak for
[2:58:36] the council but given our past um what
[2:58:41] we had done when that previous situation
[2:58:43] happened that we did
[2:58:45] >> figure out what the average usage is.
[2:58:48] >> Yeah,
[2:58:50] I think that's what
[2:58:52] So, another question I had and I
[2:58:54] requested it um was that do we have the
[2:58:58] ability to run an unusual consump
[2:59:00] consumption report that would identify
[2:59:03] how many accounts had an unusual high
[2:59:08] usage for the month of July and so far
[2:59:10] I've been told no that cannot happen. I
[2:59:13] don't I have to ask
[2:59:16] >> I would think with the software that we
[2:59:18] have that's information that any utility
[2:59:20] should be able to have that information
[2:59:23] available um for all all of those reads
[2:59:27] that how many had an unusual consumption
[2:59:30] for the month of July and that the city
[2:59:32] should be able to identify how many
[2:59:34] meters read exceptionally high that it's
[2:59:37] not their normal
[2:59:39] um
[2:59:42] consumption use um in a month. Um
[2:59:47] the other question did and you might
[2:59:51] have said this um my understanding is
[2:59:54] that there was a problem with reading
[2:59:56] last month and it was all read manually.
[2:59:59] So have we gone back to make sure that
[3:00:01] the manual recording
[3:00:04] is the same as what's recorded on each
[3:00:06] account? Okay. and have we gone back to
[3:00:09] the meter to make sure the meter lines
[3:00:10] up with what was recorded for each of
[3:00:12] those reads. Okay, so that's already
[3:00:15] happened.
[3:00:16] Um,
[3:00:18] so a question I do have with this
[3:00:19] billing anomaly is I was made aware that
[3:00:22] our Witchita meter for the total city
[3:00:25] use
[3:00:27] um, it nearly matched the collective
[3:00:29] billing for the month of July,
[3:00:33] but there was an anomaly in there that
[3:00:35] would not have been included in part of
[3:00:38] that reading. So I guess I would like to
[3:00:42] see
[3:00:45] the
[3:00:47] Witchita what's been built from Witchah
[3:00:50] to the city actually over at least three
[3:00:53] or four months and what was collectively
[3:00:55] build to all of our meters to see is
[3:01:00] everything matching up and I I'm asking
[3:01:02] for that for accountability to the
[3:01:03] public at this point.
[3:01:05] >> Can I follow up with that?
[3:01:06] >> Go ahead. I know when I was in that
[3:01:08] position, I kept a spreadsheet that
[3:01:10] showed that so we could see the
[3:01:12] anomalies on both um what the city
[3:01:17] build for water and what the city was
[3:01:19] build for water. I did the same for
[3:01:21] sewer so that we could see those. Is
[3:01:24] that spreadsheet do you know still being
[3:01:25] maintained?
[3:01:27] >> I don't have a yes or no for you.
[3:01:31] >> Okay.
[3:01:33] part of that.
[3:01:38] » So that's
[3:01:43] » so well I just was mentioning it because
[3:01:46] then that if we had that spreadsheet it
[3:01:48] would have because we actually have two
[3:01:50] water meters coming from Witchah.
[3:01:52] >> Okay.
[3:01:53] >> I guess of an overall picture though
[3:01:57] there may be individual anomalies but
[3:02:00] presented earlier was there's we use
[3:02:03] three as as a community we use three
[3:02:07] million more gallons than we did the
[3:02:10] previous month.
[3:02:11] >> So there may be some
[3:02:14] >> previous year excuse me.
[3:02:16] >> Um so
[3:02:18] >> no it was million large level everything
[3:02:22] that's going out is the same as what
[3:02:24] were coming in. So we've got something
[3:02:27] going on. It's not like
[3:02:29] >> one of them isn't matching up.
[3:02:31] >> No,
[3:02:31] >> there may be little anomalies and all
[3:02:33] the distribution side,
[3:02:35] >> but we're bringing in that much.
[3:02:38] >> So, we're using it someplace. I mean, I
[3:02:41] shouldn't say it's going through the
[3:02:42] meters
[3:02:43] >> and there should be some anomalies
[3:02:44] because of when if we're reading on the
[3:02:48] 1st through the 4th, our meters that
[3:02:52] from Witchah aren't necessarily being
[3:02:54] read on the same day. They are in fact
[3:02:56] like I said we have two meters coming
[3:02:58] from Witchah. So they are not being read
[3:03:01] necessarily on the same day. It was also
[3:03:03] how we found out we had a sewer problem
[3:03:05] because we started tracking that and
[3:03:07] saying whoa why how how do we have so
[3:03:09] much more water going back to Witchah
[3:03:11] >> every time it rained.
[3:03:13] we had
[3:03:14] infiltration. But if we keep track of
[3:03:15] that that's how we find those things.
[3:03:18] So, um, how many do you know how many
[3:03:21] meters we have that are not being
[3:03:25] electronically read that are not on
[3:03:27] center?
[3:03:27] >> I don't have
[3:03:29] >> I think Thomas in the meeting this week
[3:03:31] said he needs to replace 300 still. So,
[3:03:34] I'm guessing that basically 300 are not
[3:03:37] the that would be a good estimate
[3:03:39] probably.
[3:03:41] >> Yeah. So about 300 would need to be
[3:03:43] replaced before we can open up the
[3:03:46] Zenner monitoring system.
[3:03:49] >> Okay. Um
[3:03:52] so when and I know that most of you guys
[3:03:54] had problems with usage but the tier
[3:03:56] system um got brought up as well. So I
[3:03:59] was not on council when this current one
[3:04:02] um was adopted. So my question would be
[3:04:05] were the the tiers that we use are those
[3:04:09] similar to the tiers that Witchah uses
[3:04:11] or were those ones that were recommended
[3:04:14] from the um water rate study?
[3:04:23] » So but I'm but so in the water rate
[3:04:26] study is is that what was recommended to
[3:04:30] the council? No, the
[3:04:32] >> No. And I'll I'll I want to speak to
[3:04:34] that. So I
[3:04:35] >> Okay.
[3:04:36] >> What what the water wise or water guys
[3:04:39] >> Great rates some great rates.
[3:04:41] >> Great rates.
[3:04:41] >> Yeah. Great rates.
[3:04:42] >> What they recommended was the three tier
[3:04:44] system. And I asked for a lower tier to
[3:04:49] be put in the 0ero to 5,000
[3:04:52] so that people on
[3:04:56] in, you know, very small households that
[3:04:58] are really struggling, we could get them
[3:05:00] a lower rate because everything of the
[3:05:02] three existing tiers that we've had was
[3:05:05] going up. So I asked Matt if he could go
[3:05:09] back, have them rerun it at a lower tier
[3:05:12] for essential use only. And I understand
[3:05:15] 5,000 is not that much,
[3:05:17] >> but it's for the essential use only that
[3:05:20] people who are really struggling can get
[3:05:23] the lowest rate possible.
[3:05:25] In response to that, we had to raise the
[3:05:29] higher tier. So if you're going over
[3:05:32] 25,000,
[3:05:34] that's part of that reason. So
[3:05:38] part of what I asked for, but we did go
[3:05:42] from three tiers to four tiers.
[3:05:46] >> Thank you.
[3:05:48] >> Sure. Go ahead.
[3:05:55] » July of 25.
[3:05:58] >> Yeah.
[3:05:58] >> And I'm pretty sure it was July of 25.
[3:06:02] >> Yeah. because I actually asked if the
[3:06:04] escalation rate was going to go up
[3:06:05] August 1st after the new rates got put
[3:06:07] into effect last year and it was no. You
[3:06:09] didn't have an extra 3% last year. So, one one of the thing I would like to
[3:06:15] say really quick is that I attended the
[3:06:17] Kansas Water Office local consult today
[3:06:20] and I talked someone sitting beside me
[3:06:23] was from
[3:06:24] a utility
[3:06:26] company and has been in the utility
[3:06:29] business for many many many years.
[3:06:32] And in the discussion,
[3:06:36] because of the news story, it's already
[3:06:37] out all over the place that Kichi has
[3:06:40] this high water issue going on with
[3:06:42] their bills.
[3:06:43] This person said it's almost impossible
[3:06:46] for a town of our size to suddenly use 3
[3:06:50] million gallons more water. Um
[3:06:53] especially when 2400 actually includes
[3:06:55] Sunnydale and they're on rule water one.
[3:06:58] So that just I would I personally would
[3:07:01] like an investigation of the whole
[3:07:02] system
[3:07:04] because it's is such a strange
[3:07:08] issue that has come up. 28 is a start.
[3:07:12] There's way more than 28 people that
[3:07:14] have this big huge spike. And it's like
[3:07:18] I think the citizens need
[3:07:22] to see that the city's going to do
[3:07:23] everything possible to show them that
[3:07:29] we care and that we want to do
[3:07:32] everything we possibly can to make sure
[3:07:35] something didn't happen. Some software
[3:07:38] glitch. Was there some cyber attack? Was
[3:07:40] there I I don't know. I mean, are these
[3:07:43] really I mean, are these water uses
[3:07:45] really like we can't we literally can't
[3:07:47] explain them and nothing can be found at
[3:07:50] all.
[3:07:54] » And that that will be a council
[3:07:55] decision.
[3:07:57] >> Yes.
[3:08:08] » Okay. Hang on, guys. Hang on. Let Let
[3:08:09] him Let him speak. Hang on.
[3:08:12] I've already asked them and that is
[3:08:13] possibility
[3:08:19] totally up to us but we need to see
[3:08:23] >> okay
[3:08:24] >> we've already
[3:08:25] >> Okay.
[3:08:30] » Yes. Okay.
[3:08:33] >> Okay. So PEC is our regularly contracted
[3:08:36] engineering company for the city of
[3:08:38] Kichi. So they know us. So anyway, I'm
[3:08:42] just going to put that out there. I'm
[3:08:43] going to let council continue to discuss
[3:08:45] the matter.
[3:08:47] >> Um, so
[3:08:49] I know that um, residents are as a whole
[3:08:54] make up a great portion of our water
[3:08:56] use, but we also have several our
[3:08:59] highest water users are industrial and
[3:09:02] commercial. So do we know what their
[3:09:05] rate I mean their usage increased over
[3:09:08] that same period of time? so that we can
[3:09:10] compare um what were the what was the
[3:09:15] consumption amounts by customer type.
[3:09:20] » Awesome.
[3:09:20] >> Well, I know that.
[3:09:22] >> Yeah.
[3:09:22] >> Okay. Well,
[3:09:23] >> a question.
[3:09:24] >> Okay. No, I I know that we can do the
[3:09:28] report. I just want to know the data
[3:09:31] from it. I mean, because I'll be honest.
[3:09:33] I know Debbie knows that we have to have
[3:09:35] some of that just to file our monthly
[3:09:36] sales tax. We have to know different
[3:09:38] rates because of because of that.
[3:09:41] >> Maybe asking have any of the 28 been
[3:09:44] commercial?
[3:09:46] >> Oh, I and I wasn't worried about that.
[3:09:48] What I'm worried because
[3:09:49] >> they have such high volume.
[3:09:50] >> They have a very high volume before they
[3:09:52] move up to a tier. So, for instance, it
[3:09:54] was what 100,000 gallons is up to
[3:09:58] 100,000 gallons is their first tier. And
[3:10:00] I understand that they use water um for
[3:10:04] their production and things like that.
[3:10:06] and that's how they make money. But I
[3:10:09] also know that um when they're watering
[3:10:13] their grass, are they being held to the
[3:10:16] same standard of conserving water for
[3:10:18] their for their lawns as we are for our
[3:10:22] residents? So for instance, meter
[3:10:24] engineers, how much of their water bill
[3:10:28] is for their irrigation versus how much
[3:10:32] of their water bill is for um production
[3:10:37] because I know that I mean they a lot of
[3:10:40] times there's two separate meters or
[3:10:42] there had been in the past. So when I
[3:10:44] think of how much water is being used,
[3:10:47] do we have that information that we So
[3:10:49] when we look at that 3 million and I
[3:10:52] know that like you said that's a big
[3:10:53] anomaly, but how much of that is coming
[3:10:56] from
[3:10:57] I mean Valley Floral has got to use I
[3:10:59] mean they use a lot of water because
[3:11:00] they're plant-based that okay they have
[3:11:03] plants they not
[3:11:07] >> um when when we go wash our cars more KI
[3:11:10] car wash is going to use more water and
[3:11:12] I know that I So, I just want to see,
[3:11:15] you know, where is is is some of that
[3:11:17] feeding into that. I did have a qu I did
[3:11:20] write a question about making sure we're
[3:11:22] running a zero consumption in our high
[3:11:23] usage reports. Um, we've talked about
[3:11:27] the watering restrictions and um are we
[3:11:31] enforcing
[3:11:33] um the watering restrictions? What are I
[3:11:36] mean
[3:11:41] » okay
[3:11:42] >> during the day
[3:11:50] » and that was something we talked about
[3:11:51] too where that could end up with a door
[3:11:53] hanger and just saying hey reminder
[3:11:56] Monday Wednesday only between
[3:11:59] >> 10 before 10 or after six
[3:12:01] >> and I one of my um like I said those
[3:12:03] were some of my questions
[3:12:05] Um,
[3:12:06] and again, like I said with the social
[3:12:08] media, I understand and and I'm going to
[3:12:10] say, yeah, when Mr. Jensen saying he's
[3:12:12] not going to go investigate social media
[3:12:14] to see where the complaints are coming
[3:12:16] from, we need to make sure the
[3:12:18] complaints are coming to hear when you
[3:12:19] have them. Yes.
[3:12:20] >> However,
[3:12:22] and yes, it is definitely free speech
[3:12:25] and I encourage that because I think
[3:12:27] that there's a lot of you who felt like,
[3:12:30] is this only me?
[3:12:33] and and you had a different reaction
[3:12:36] when he's like, "Okay." And I know
[3:12:37] several of you came in and talked to him
[3:12:40] and said, "Hey, I found out or I didn't
[3:12:42] find out and I still really want to know
[3:12:44] what's going on and we really want you
[3:12:46] to know what's going on because like I
[3:12:48] said, whether I mean I mine is stay
[3:12:52] steady. I am two units. My husband and
[3:12:55] I, we do not water because I have a big
[3:12:57] yard and I say God waters it when he
[3:12:59] wants it green and otherwise my I still
[3:13:02] have to mow it. Well, we don't I don't
[3:13:04] get that. But um so we that we're just a
[3:13:07] household of two. So we are in that
[3:13:09] lower tier. Um
[3:13:11] but I also know that those leaks happen.
[3:13:14] We've had it where it was the toilet
[3:13:16] that leaked that flapper. It it made a
[3:13:18] big difference. So, um, I want you guys
[3:13:22] to know that keep keep talking to each
[3:13:24] other. Keep being a community because we
[3:13:27] need to come together. And even if we're
[3:13:28] only coming together on social media, we
[3:13:31] need to come together. We need to feel
[3:13:32] like we're out there that we I'm glad to
[3:13:34] hear that your neighbors were out
[3:13:36] talking to each other. I'm sorry it was
[3:13:37] about this and not about, you know,
[3:13:40] >> doing a rain dance so we get some rain.
[3:13:42] But, um, yeah. So, make sure you're
[3:13:46] letting us know. City, whether it's city
[3:13:48] council, city hall, we want to hear from
[3:13:51] you. We want to hear your concerns.
[3:13:54] That's what we're about.
[3:13:56] >> So, and I I do want to I hope that we
[3:13:58] can get some some satisfactory answers.
[3:14:02] Um I know we had already I had one on
[3:14:05] here about how are meters tested? Um
[3:14:07] that's been answered. So, but I think my
[3:14:10] biggest one is, you know, what do we
[3:14:12] need to do to work together to instill
[3:14:14] confidence
[3:14:16] >> back to you guys that that you are what you're being charged is reflective
[3:14:20] of what you used?
[3:14:25] » Okay.
[3:14:26] >> I've been waiting.
[3:14:27] >> Sorry. So, um, I asked as asked Matt
[3:14:30] this afternoon to put together that map
[3:14:33] of where the usage was because I've
[3:14:35] talked to Thomas a couple times and he's
[3:14:37] telling me I'm barking up the wrong
[3:14:39] tree, but of all the people in here, who all is in Prairie Creek area
[3:14:47] and and everybody's was hired, right?
[3:14:51] Has And I know,
[3:14:54] >> right? I I know it's not I know there's
[3:14:57] others. I'm just saying it seems like a
[3:14:59] majority
[3:14:59] >> like a cluster.
[3:15:01] >> Um
[3:15:02] >> has anybody and I know this is a
[3:15:04] completely subjective question but I'm
[3:15:06] not giving up on it. Has anybody noticed
[3:15:10] increased pressure
[3:15:12] or better not in this case but better
[3:15:16] water pressure
[3:15:18] the last six monthsish?
[3:15:21] It
[3:15:23] >> less. Okay. I on our side over here I
[3:15:26] noticed ours was was higher
[3:15:29] >> and Thomas assured me that no the
[3:15:31] pressure is the same. The reason I asked
[3:15:33] is I was thinking okay if the pressures
[3:15:35] went up
[3:15:36] >> then you know those are free flowing
[3:15:38] meters they just meter what's going if
[3:15:40] your if your pressure goes up and you're
[3:15:42] watering for the same amount of time
[3:15:44] then more is going to go through. So I
[3:15:46] was thinking maybe
[3:15:55] » Go ahead and come up to the mic so that
[3:15:57] we can hear what happened.
[3:16:00] >> It's okay.
[3:16:04] » We already know.
[3:16:06] >> I know. We had a situation that
[3:16:08] happened.
[3:16:08] >> Help me.
[3:16:10] >> Two days ago.
[3:16:10] Okay. Four o'clock in the
[3:16:13] morning. Watering time.
[3:16:15] Doug waters in the morning at three. We
[3:16:19] I think Todd did his at three. Did do
[3:16:21] you did you water?
[3:16:24] whatever Clint does his. And we had the
[3:16:27] most unusual thing. My husband woke up
[3:16:29] at four o'clock. I didn't want to say
[3:16:31] this because it's gonna say you're gonna
[3:16:32] say, "Oh, that's what's going on." No,
[3:16:34] it's not. But we had the most unusual
[3:16:36] thing happened. He jumps out of bed,
[3:16:38] heard something. It was our backflow pre
[3:16:42] blue. I mean, I don't know how to say
[3:16:43] it. Just it came apart. We thought first
[3:16:45] somebody was tampering with it. But not
[3:16:47] only did ours do that, but so did Sue's
[3:16:51] behind us.
[3:16:53] And then so did
[3:16:54] >> Ricky
[3:16:56] did the same thing.
[3:16:57] >> Yeah.
[3:16:58] >> All in the same time period.
[3:17:00] >> You guys told Thomas that?
[3:17:02] >> No,
[3:17:03] >> not yet.
[3:17:04] >> Because I didn't want to find any more
[3:17:06] about water.
[3:17:07] >> Well, those are
[3:17:08] >> But I'm going to tell you something. It
[3:17:10] all happened in about a three to
[3:17:12] whatever period. And my husband said,
[3:17:15] who's an engineer and like I said, he's
[3:17:18] smart, right? Well, and that is what
[3:17:20] that is why he posted about air in the
[3:17:22] line.
[3:17:22] >> Yes. And he says because of Park City.
[3:17:25] But the thing is is something happened.
[3:17:28] We know something happened. He went out
[3:17:30] there, shut our system down first. And
[3:17:32] he was mad. I mean, we're getting all
[3:17:34] new security, you know, but it he said,
[3:17:36] "I don't think it's that. It's a
[3:17:38] something's clean here. We didn't file a
[3:17:40] police report.
[3:17:42] >> Snapped
[3:17:42] >> it. It's it came out. It just came out."
[3:17:45] But Sue had a or my neighbor behind us
[3:17:49] that I won't tell you her name. She had
[3:17:52] uh a new system put in just recently.
[3:17:56] Clint went over and was talking to her.
[3:17:58] Right, April? Me here and and she had
[3:18:02] the same situation going on. Then he
[3:18:05] calls Ricky Bobby and find out that he's
[3:18:08] had a problem all and they that says
[3:18:11] it's that is so rare for that to happen.
[3:18:14] So yes, I think there was a pressure
[3:18:15] some
[3:18:16] >> all the valves blew.
[3:18:18] >> Well, those are the pieces of the puzzle
[3:18:19] we need to know about to help,
[3:18:21] >> right?
[3:18:21] >> But do you understand why we didn't?
[3:18:25] >> Okay, that's why because we don't listen
[3:18:27] to
[3:18:28] >> I'm sorry, but that's exactly what it
[3:18:29] is.
[3:18:30] >> I know. I know. I
[3:18:33] >> That's why that's why people won't
[3:18:35] because when they hear that it's their
[3:18:37] fault, they're like, well, they aren't
[3:18:39] listening to us and so they don't want
[3:18:41] to share anymore.
[3:18:43] So, and it is something we have to
[3:18:45] rebuild trust, which is why I do believe
[3:18:48] we need an independent investigation.
[3:18:51] >> And it's and I mean, I get PEC knows our
[3:18:54] system, but yet at the same time, it's
[3:18:56] like putting it out for bid for someone
[3:18:59] to come in and do the investigation.
[3:19:01] >> I find I don't I don't know. PEC's who
[3:19:04] we ask for engineering questions
[3:19:06] obviously because we're contracted with
[3:19:08] them. I don't know if they have that
[3:19:10] specialty, but
[3:19:11] >> I think that that that's exactly why I
[3:19:14] was asking that question is because to
[3:19:17] me
[3:19:18] >> it makes sense.
[3:19:19] >> A bit of an engineering brain. I'm not
[3:19:21] an engineer, but I pretend to be one.
[3:19:24] >> But to me, it's there's so many usage
[3:19:28] increases.
[3:19:29] >> Now, I we also have to all acknowledge
[3:19:33] that I I beg you guys, do not compare
[3:19:37] your usage to 2025. Correct. 2025 was
[3:19:41] wonderful. I hardly ran my sprinkler
[3:19:43] system at all. Grass was green. It was
[3:19:46] cool. It was wet. Okay. But going back
[3:19:48] to 2024, 2023 and looking at those
[3:19:52] usages, I think is valid.
[3:19:54] >> Yes.
[3:19:54] >> Um but
[3:19:56] >> what's that?
[3:19:58] >> I
[3:19:58] >> Well, but what I'm saying is
[3:20:03] >> Yeah.
[3:20:05] >> That That's what I'm That's what
[3:20:09] Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
[3:20:10] >> But that's that's the point. I I
[3:20:12] apologize if I'm not communicating it
[3:20:14] properly, but that's the point I'm
[3:20:16] trying to make is the usage is up. I mean, we see it on
[3:20:22] the intake side, right?
[3:20:24] >> And we see it on the output side. So,
[3:20:26] the usage is really up. So, to me, in my
[3:20:30] simple brain, if you're running at an
[3:20:32] increased pressure, then you're flowing
[3:20:35] more. That that's the way
[3:20:38] water works. And and
[3:20:40] so if we're popping valves,
[3:20:44] maybe there is something that we're
[3:20:46] having pressure spikes at night when things are running because that's
[3:20:50] when I run mine, too,
[3:20:51] >> right?
[3:20:52] >> But maybe that pressure is spiking
[3:20:54] >> because, you know, nobody in Witchaw is
[3:20:57] using I don't know.
[3:20:59] >> Maybe it's a possibility. Would Thomas
[3:21:01] have access to that kind of data on the
[3:21:04] pressures or does it have to
[3:21:05] >> He told me he told me there's no change
[3:21:07] in our pressure but Thomas isn't
[3:21:10] measuring the middle of the night. He
[3:21:13] goes and looks and says that but I don't
[3:21:16] know if we have that data.
[3:21:17] >> Well, we had the water study that we
[3:21:19] that he
[3:21:21] >> that they gave us recently that talked
[3:21:23] about the different times in the peak
[3:21:24] hours and what the what the spikes were.
[3:21:27] Right.
[3:21:27] >> But I don't I think it's worth
[3:21:29] investigating. Okay. Do we have
[3:21:31] >> Yeah.
[3:21:31] >> pressure spikes? Are we having an
[3:21:33] increased system pressure that
[3:21:35] everything is flowing more?
[3:21:36] >> Yeah.
[3:21:37] >> Well, and I think one of the things for
[3:21:39] me personally because we have an
[3:21:40] irrigation well and we have a lot of air
[3:21:43] in our well line that it spits out a lot
[3:21:46] of air before it gets to water. I don't
[3:21:48] normally have that in my city hose line,
[3:21:50] but I have noticed this summer if I use
[3:21:54] my regular hose, I have a lot more air
[3:21:56] in my hose line. So, and to my house
[3:22:00] that hooks up to city water. Yeah.
[3:22:02] Because I have two spets that are city
[3:22:04] water, but I have noticed I'm having
[3:22:07] more air and it's like when it starts
[3:22:08] up, it's like I'm getting a lot of air
[3:22:10] through it. And I'm like, what in the
[3:22:11] world is happening in my city line
[3:22:13] because my well line does that getting
[3:22:15] going, but my city line doesn't usually
[3:22:17] do that. So, it's just something I
[3:22:20] noticed this summer. And I will say kind
[3:22:22] of piggybacking on what Todd said that I
[3:22:24] did when when I asked you guys I said
[3:22:26] what is your historic usage and I said
[3:22:28] and don't look at one year because we
[3:22:30] have one year on the on the bill right
[3:22:33] >> look back if you have that kind of
[3:22:35] information and I know some people keep
[3:22:37] their bills and some people as soon as
[3:22:39] you write the check and it clears it's
[3:22:42] gone. Um like I said I I heard Dennis
[3:22:45] say he had 25 years worth of bills. Um I
[3:22:47] think my husband has about 22 2
[3:22:51] 12 years. I don't know when he he we
[3:22:53] every once in a while I'm like, "Okay,
[3:22:55] we don't need that anymore. We're we're
[3:22:56] good with it." But it is good to look
[3:22:58] back and say, "What has changed?"
[3:23:00] Because I can guarantee you that when my
[3:23:02] three kids moved out, yeah, my water
[3:23:03] went down. But looking at those and
[3:23:06] being able to kind of say, "Oh yeah,
[3:23:07] last year was a was a rainy year. We
[3:23:10] didn't have to run the sprinkler where
[3:23:12] the year before when the water
[3:23:13] restrictions were very first put into
[3:23:15] place." Yeah. What did that compare to?
[3:23:17] So that but we when we have that to look
[3:23:19] at and if you don't and I think that's
[3:23:22] what the city staff was was trying to
[3:23:25] help provide so that you could get that picture.
[3:23:29] So I know that that's important. I do
[3:23:31] also when we're talking about looking at
[3:23:33] the system, I do think we need to look
[3:23:36] to make sure that between the electronic
[3:23:39] reads and the utility billing that there
[3:23:43] isn't something. I mean, I know that
[3:23:46] there's there has been times where a new
[3:23:48] meter gets put in and the truncation for
[3:23:50] some reason didn't get switched
[3:23:52] correctly in it. But then those are your
[3:23:54] oneoffs, not a systemwide. but just to
[3:23:57] make sure that we're we're checking in
[3:23:59] and doing our due diligence for you.
[3:24:02] >> So, council, I guess we're at a point. I
[3:24:04] think we've discussed this pretty well.
[3:24:06] Um, I'm going to put it out to you. Are
[3:24:10] you in agreement? Would you like to see
[3:24:13] an independent investigation happen for
[3:24:15] the system? Okay.
[3:24:16] >> Yes.
[3:24:18] >> All right. Do we need a motion for that?
[3:24:20] >> No. Well, we'll continue.
[3:24:23] >> I'm just just asking what we need.
[3:24:27] and then look for
[3:24:28] >> something.
[3:24:30] >> Yep. And put it out for bid. So, that's
[3:24:32] where we are tonight, folks. I'm sorry
[3:24:33] we can't answer all your questions, but
[3:24:35] that is where we are tonight. We are
[3:24:37] going to work on it and we will continue
[3:24:39] to communicate. We can even put updates
[3:24:42] out um if there's something in between
[3:24:44] meetings. We the city can put out an
[3:24:47] update if there's something that they
[3:24:49] have to share. Um otherwise, it would
[3:24:51] potentially be brought up at the next
[3:24:53] council meeting. So,
[3:24:55] >> are we good? Thank you all so much. And
[3:24:57] you know what? Thank you for being
[3:24:58] respectful. Thank you for
[3:25:01] >> sharing what you needed to share. And
[3:25:03] even though you're angry, that you
[3:25:05] really did it respectfully. And I'm
[3:25:07] really, really thankful for all of you.
[3:25:15] » Well, it will eventually. It's going to
[3:25:16] take some time. Um, you know, we are
[3:25:19] going to resolve it tomorrow, but it's
[3:25:21] like what? Well, let let's talk about
[3:25:25] the Matt. I think one of the things you
[3:25:27] said was um or maybe mention to me, but
[3:25:32] everybody checking your meter, which I
[3:25:35] do
[3:25:36] >> regularly, but checking your meter at
[3:25:38] the first of the month. I know I know
[3:25:40] we've talked about it's kind of we're
[3:25:42] into it.
[3:25:44] >> Make sure you make sure you check that.
[3:25:46] Um, I've honestly I've experienced this
[3:25:49] a lot of times is like every every year
[3:25:53] I get my July water bill and I'm
[3:25:55] shutting off the sprinklers because I we
[3:25:57] could we used to have a well when we
[3:25:59] lived before and it was wonderful. But
[3:26:01] so I I get it. But we are we are very
[3:26:06] much looking to try to find what's
[3:26:08] wrong. And I guess I would request,
[3:26:11] could we go ahead and put something out
[3:26:12] to the community on the Facebook page or
[3:26:14] even the website that says if you have
[3:26:18] not reported a high water bill for July,
[3:26:21] please contact city hall.
[3:26:24] I would really appreciate that. So we
[3:26:26] can try to and you know if you have
[3:26:27] neighbors around you or you haven't
[3:26:29] reported um you don't necessarily have
[3:26:31] to come into city hall. You could just
[3:26:33] call, right? Okay. So if if it's easier
[3:26:35] just to call please so we can get as
[3:26:38] many of these high bills recorded as
[3:26:39] possible and get your neighbors to do
[3:26:41] the same thing so we can get a better
[3:26:43] picture of what is happening. So thank
[3:26:46] you everybody
[3:26:47] >> and if anybody hears anything else about
[3:26:51] spikes or spike issues or
[3:26:53] >> or valves
[3:26:53] >> or valve blowing please let Thomas let
[3:26:57] city know let Thomas know as soon as
[3:26:59] possible because that might that might
[3:27:01] be part of the puzzle.
[3:27:05] Okay, we have a little bit of city
[3:27:06] business to finish. And if you guys want
[3:27:07] to take off, please feel free to go.
[3:27:09] Have a wonderful evening. What?
[3:27:11] >> You don't want to hang out? Oh my gosh.
[3:27:14] >> Thank you for enduring this far.
[3:27:15] >> Thank you.
[3:27:16] >> Okay, we have three pretty quick last
[3:27:19] items.
[3:27:22] » Whoops.
[3:27:25] >> And if you could do me a favor, if you
[3:27:26] guys want to chat, just chat outside so
[3:27:28] we can finish up, please.
[3:27:32] Okay. So, we're going to move on to the
[3:27:34] next item. PEC inspection contract.
[3:27:36] Young industrial fourth water and sewer.
[3:27:40] >> Council, this is an inspection agreement
[3:27:44] for the Young Industrial Fourth, which
[3:27:46] is the SEAL lab project.
[3:27:50] The cost of this will be paid through
[3:27:52] the temp notes that were issued for that
[3:27:54] project.
[3:27:57] It's the city's assurance that things
[3:27:59] are being installed correctly when it
[3:28:01] comes to the water.
[3:28:07] » Any questions, council? If not, I would
[3:28:09] entertain a motion.
[3:28:12] >> I move we approve the PEC inspection
[3:28:14] agreement as presented and authorize the
[3:28:16] mayor to sign.
[3:28:18] >> Second motion by council member
[3:28:20] Headstrom, second by council member
[3:28:21] Baldridge. All in favor?
[3:28:23] >> I. Motion passes 300.
[3:28:26] Moving on to budget hearing publication
[3:28:28] authorization.
[3:28:30] >> Council, like we discussed at the budget workshop, uh we need to
[3:28:38] publish the budget hearing for September
[3:28:41] 10th as part of the budget process. This
[3:28:43] is not adopting the budget. This is just
[3:28:45] publishing
[3:28:54] So I guess this is also a discussion if
[3:28:56] you're only doing one or if you're also
[3:28:58] adding in the revenue neutral rate
[3:29:00] hearing.
[3:29:01] >> Yeah.
[3:29:04] The direction we felt we were given like
[3:29:12] » budget which we've been working on and
[3:29:14] that's
[3:29:16] lower our mill levy by 1.5.
[3:29:20] Okay.
[3:29:21] >> So, is it what what was the 4%?
[3:29:25] >> Well, I guess I should
[3:29:28] >> Is it Well, no.
[3:29:29] >> Taking it down to
[3:29:32] >> Excuse me.
[3:29:33] >> You said it was a 4.14 said it was a
[3:29:35] 4.1% reduction and you're saying it's a
[3:29:38] 1% reduction.
[3:29:39] >> Or do you mean one mil?
[3:29:41] >> One. Okay. You said percent.
[3:29:44] >> 1.5. Okay. I That's where
[3:29:46] >> mills.
[3:29:48] >> Okay. So down 1.5 mills to okay
[3:29:51] >> revenue neutral rate.
[3:29:52] >> Yes. Okay. But I just it's like wait a
[3:29:55] minute. Okay. I'm hearing things.
[3:29:59] Okay. So 1.5
[3:30:02] mills.
[3:30:07] I mean I know personally
[3:30:09] >> I was in favor of the revenue neutral
[3:30:11] rate.
[3:30:12] Um,
[3:30:15] I was concerned when I found out there's
[3:30:17] could be a potential of sales tax
[3:30:19] difference and that's why we asked for
[3:30:21] that information and and we don't have
[3:30:25] it.
[3:30:25] >> It's not available.
[3:30:26] >> So,
[3:30:28] um,
[3:30:31] I don't know. It's up to council
[3:30:34] >> whether we want to consider just leaving
[3:30:36] the flat for now and having a revenue
[3:30:38] neutral rate hearing giving us time to
[3:30:41] make sure we have that information or
[3:30:43] >> I'm I'm not opposed to it but anything
[3:30:46] everything is said
[3:30:49] again it's forecasting so we don't know
[3:30:52] what exactly happen
[3:30:55] >> I can't I didn't hear anything that
[3:30:57] would make me change my position to
[3:31:00] raising
[3:31:02] I'm pretty comfortable with
[3:31:04] >> Okay.
[3:31:06] >> If if you absolutely want that. I I
[3:31:09] guess I'm just gonna say I I just
[3:31:12] >> I would have liked to have known what
[3:31:15] that what that amount looks like when we're looking at the sales tax
[3:31:20] because our sales tax is a healthy
[3:31:23] portion
[3:31:25] um of what we get because we're looking
[3:31:28] at a total of between the um the state
[3:31:32] sales tax, the local sales tax because
[3:31:34] I'm not going to throw the liquor tax
[3:31:35] into that, but we're looking at right
[3:31:38] Now that's just under a million dollars.
[3:32:04] from what he said.
[3:32:14] It's like someone like said is it is it
[3:32:16] gonna I I'm just I don't know if it if
[3:32:20] it drops the same percentage because
[3:32:22] when I looked up the formula, it's going
[3:32:25] to be our assess. It's it's a it is a
[3:32:28] ratio of of what the county um property
[3:32:31] tax is and what ours is. And so if ours
[3:32:35] is
[3:32:35] >> you said theirs is 400,000 and they
[3:32:38] would be a very small percentage of
[3:32:40] that.
[3:32:40] >> Yeah, their their overall loss was going
[3:32:42] to be projected to be around 600,000 a
[3:32:44] little over 600,000.
[3:32:46] >> So So we're just a percent of that 600
[3:32:49] 600,000. So
[3:32:51] >> going forward, I would like us to find
[3:32:52] out what that formula is so that in the
[3:32:55] future that if we do this again in the
[3:32:58] future that it's it's something that we
[3:33:00] actually can forecast pretty well to be
[3:33:03] like, okay, we know that we have the
[3:33:05] possibility of losing this much money in
[3:33:08] sales tax because this is what we're
[3:33:09] choosing to do.
[3:33:10] >> And I mean,
[3:33:13] yeah, I'm like I said, I was I'm all for
[3:33:16] the revenue neutral rate. I voted
[3:33:19] against increasing it to begin with. So
[3:33:22] >> y
[3:33:22] >> I just was asking the questions because
[3:33:25] at that point in time I didn't know that
[3:33:26] the sales tax would be imp impacted or
[3:33:29] to what degree. So
[3:33:32] >> I'm fine and if we can live with it.
[3:33:35] >> So we're just doing the one hearing
[3:33:37] then. Is that correct?
[3:33:40] >> Okay. Okay. So do we just need a motion
[3:33:43] to approve that to authorize
[3:33:44] publication?
[3:33:46] >> Okay.
[3:33:49] I move we approve the budget hearing
[3:33:51] publication authorization
[3:33:54] >> as presented.
[3:33:56] >> Presented.
[3:33:58] >> Oh, did you second it? Okay.
[3:34:00] >> Motion by council member Headstrom,
[3:34:02] second by council member Baldridge. All
[3:34:03] in favor?
[3:34:04] >> I. Motion passes 30.
[3:34:07] >> Okay. Moving on to item DLKM. Voting
[3:34:10] delegate.
[3:34:13] >> Mayor and council. This was the mayor
[3:34:15] had asked us to put this on at the last
[3:34:16] minute. I've looked into it just a
[3:34:18] little bit, uh, discussed it internally
[3:34:20] with staff. Um, I guess what I would ask until we get a
[3:34:25] little more information on this. We have
[3:34:28] council designate that person.
[3:34:34] » Do we have enough time to still make the
[3:34:36] deadline?
[3:34:36] >> The deadline.
[3:34:38] >> Okay. Okay. Yeah. I don't know if anyone
[3:34:41] else I mean you have to attend the
[3:34:42] conference in order to be a delegate for
[3:34:44] your city.
[3:34:46] >> So I don't know if anybody else is
[3:34:47] registered to go.
[3:34:48] >> No, I just And was this a this was a
[3:34:51] last minute ad?
[3:34:52] >> It was a last minute ad.
[3:34:53] >> Okay. Because I was going to say yeah, I
[3:34:54] didn't have any information on it. So So
[3:34:56] that our city has representation in
[3:34:58] voting on policy.
[3:34:59] >> So okay. So do you need a motion to
[3:35:03] table it or is this tabled?
[3:35:06] >> Okay. So a motion to table. I make a
[3:35:09] motion that we table the LKM voting
[3:35:11] delegate.
[3:35:13] >> Motion by council member Morland, second
[3:35:15] by council member Hedstrom. All in
[3:35:17] favor?
[3:35:18] >> I.
[3:35:18] >> Motion passes 30. Moving on to council
[3:35:21] reports, discussion and requests. Um I
[3:35:25] brought up several things with the CIP
[3:35:27] last time and
[3:35:31] I guess I feel like there's no
[3:35:32] clarification on how we're actually
[3:35:36] moving forward with this. There's been
[3:35:37] no discussion with council whether we're
[3:35:40] leaving it as is. Are we going to work
[3:35:42] on this document? Um because I mean I
[3:35:46] heard
[3:35:49] Thomas share that he doesn't really need
[3:35:52] his items in here until he finds out
[3:35:56] what's happening with the public works
[3:35:57] facility. So, um, and then there was
[3:36:01] questions about
[3:36:04] a sidewalk master plan, which is in for
[3:36:06] next year. We already have a sidewalk
[3:36:10] plan with the arts and business district
[3:36:12] as well as the corridor improvements.
[3:36:14] So, there's there's just questions about
[3:36:19] what should be included.
[3:36:22] >> I think the important thing to remember
[3:36:23] with the
[3:36:27] use it
[3:36:35] We do anything toast.
[3:36:56] Well, it usually you'll utilize the CIP
[3:36:59] for determining what plans you're going
[3:37:03] to pursue. So,
[3:37:06] it's it is a living document, but at the
[3:37:08] same time, you are identifying specific
[3:37:12] projects or
[3:37:14] equipment that you are planning, that's
[3:37:18] why this is all planned out to purchase
[3:37:21] at certain times. So I guess for me with
[3:37:25] the corridor improvement and the
[3:37:27] sidewalk master plan to me
[3:37:30] that would be like arts and business
[3:37:32] district phase two. I mean it wouldn't
[3:37:34] be broken. We don't need a sidewalk
[3:37:36] master plan. We already have one and all
[3:37:39] we that would be are we going to change
[3:37:40] it to monies for PEC to design the next
[3:37:44] phase. So, I'm saying to me this does
[3:37:47] not represent necessarily what we are
[3:37:50] looking at for our future planning for
[3:37:54] capital improvement for all of these
[3:37:55] items.
[3:37:55] >> What would you like us to adjust?
[3:38:00] » I guess I can state it again. Um, the
[3:38:03] corridor improvement and the sidewalk
[3:38:04] master plan, that's the arts and
[3:38:06] business district phase two
[3:38:10] and that would be pursuing WMO funding
[3:38:12] grants. But I also asked a question
[3:38:14] earlier in the budget workshop. We don't
[3:38:17] have an idea yet of when the first phase
[3:38:21] is going to be paid. When are we going
[3:38:23] to start paying for it and when is the
[3:38:25] forecast of when it's going to be paid
[3:38:26] off? Yes, we're going to start working
[3:38:28] potentially on phase two,
[3:38:31] but we have to know when monies are
[3:38:36] going to be available and how to
[3:38:37] forecast when that's feasible with the
[3:38:40] 1% sales tax. So, and I know that for
[3:38:43] not I don't know or we don't know what
[3:38:47] is our current balance.
[3:38:49] >> No, with our with our 1% what is the
[3:38:51] balance in that fund?
[3:38:55] » I don't know.
[3:38:57] >> Okay. Well, it just
[3:38:59] >> provide that.
[3:39:04] » Okay. I I
[3:39:08] » was always more than we expected.
[3:39:15] » That's why it's like can we pay it off
[3:39:16] like in three years? I mean is that
[3:39:17] going to be a fast payoff if you know
[3:39:20] the sales tax keeps coming in and it's
[3:39:21] like if that's the case it's like well
[3:39:23] we need to start thinking about the next
[3:39:25] phase then.
[3:39:26] >> I mean I see the the sales tax that we
[3:39:31] receive
[3:39:33] but Is it split out?
[3:39:34] >> No, that's not that's that's
[3:39:36] >> that's what I keep asking for is to
[3:39:37] split out. So that's that is not
[3:39:45] because it is um it is a separate fund
[3:39:50] >> right he's he's giving I just he has
[3:39:54] shared with it separately
[3:39:55] >> remember is that it's always comes in
[3:39:57] higher
[3:39:57] >> right
[3:39:58] >> well and that's where
[3:39:59] >> and the reason I'm bringing that up is
[3:40:02] because we know that that the temporary
[3:40:05] the temp note for that comes due this
[3:40:07] year.
[3:40:08] >> So, how much of that, and I know that's
[3:40:11] going to be a discussion for a later
[3:40:12] date, but it's also a discussion while
[3:40:14] we're looking at budget, is how much of
[3:40:16] that are we going to spend
[3:40:19] on reducing the amount of the bond
[3:40:22] overall?
[3:40:23] >> So, right now, we're saying, okay, this
[3:40:25] is how much the bond is going to cost,
[3:40:26] but how much and how much can we do? We
[3:40:28] do need to look at that. And so that's
[3:40:30] where when I looked through here, I did
[3:40:32] not find
[3:40:34] the the line that shows the city portion
[3:40:38] of the sales tax only. I mean, like I
[3:40:41] said, the sales tax, the general sales
[3:40:43] tax on the front,
[3:40:46] that is not the 1% collected by the
[3:40:49] city.
[3:40:57] » And without
[3:41:02] » well and and
[3:41:04] >> so I and I guess that's where I
[3:41:07] >> that's where I'm struggling
[3:41:08] >> when we're looking forward to it and and
[3:41:10] knowing that's part of our CIP that I
[3:41:13] mean and it's not mentioned on the CIP
[3:41:16] document that sales tax is even a part
[3:41:18] of where that funding is going to come
[3:41:19] from.
[3:41:20] >> Great. Um, the other thing that I would
[3:41:23] ask is when we have I know that we set
[3:41:26] the parks by policy, but just like we
[3:41:29] estimate, I would like to see an
[3:41:31] estimate of how much annual goes in
[3:41:32] there just like we have the annual for
[3:41:35] the highway. So we have an amount
[3:41:37] because I mean
[3:41:40] I I I just I don't know how much that
[3:41:43] and and I understand that this because
[3:41:45] this is a living document that is just
[3:41:47] going to be an estimate
[3:41:48] >> but it would be good to see an estimate
[3:41:50] there for the spending instead of just
[3:41:52] well that's policy and I know it's going
[3:41:54] to change based on the mill late mill
[3:41:56] rate because it's based on the mill rate
[3:41:59] but to have basically a general idea.
[3:42:02] Um,
[3:42:03] and then I'm I know that we have that
[3:42:07] patrol vehicle
[3:42:09] in there for 2027
[3:42:11] and we had talked about as a council
[3:42:15] >> not having a replacement vehicle until
[3:42:17] 2028.
[3:42:19] >> And I
[3:42:30] Okay.
[3:42:42] » So, how do we make
[3:42:46] » this?
[3:42:48] >> And do we have a That's why we have
[3:42:50] equipment reserve,
[3:42:51] >> right? Does the police department have
[3:42:52] an an equipment reserve
[3:42:54] >> that they're building?
[3:42:57] So, how do we
[3:42:58] >> take it off?
[3:43:00] >> No, I I'm just asking how are we
[3:43:02] building how is that fund being built?
[3:43:05] Because like the next time we say that
[3:43:06] there's not going to be another one
[3:43:07] until 2031.
[3:43:10] >> So,
[3:43:12] >> well, it was supposed to be
[3:43:13] >> it says it said 28 and 31.
[3:43:16] >> 28 and 31
[3:43:16] >> and they're changing it to 27 and 31.
[3:43:23] » I guess so. I'm asking how are we so
[3:43:26] public works has built an equipment fund
[3:43:27] for many years. So how how are we
[3:43:31] building an equipment reserve fund then
[3:43:34] for the police department and what is
[3:43:37] being budgeted annually to go in there?
[3:43:40] That's a question that I have.
[3:43:43] >> Okay.
[3:43:47] that. So, and then when we talked about
[3:43:49] the public works, I mean, Thomas said
[3:43:51] that if if we're going to do an
[3:43:54] assessment,
[3:43:56] he wouldn't be considering considering
[3:43:57] any equipment until a decision is like
[3:44:01] made after the assessment is done for
[3:44:05] the utilities. So, it's like or that for
[3:44:08] the potential facility. And so it's like
[3:44:12] I mean I guess I heard him that he's
[3:44:14] sort of just in a pause until
[3:44:18] that occurs. So he's not planning to
[3:44:20] move forward with purchasing any
[3:44:21] equipment at this time. He even talked
[3:44:23] about being able to rent something in
[3:44:26] the meantime. So I guess this has to go
[3:44:29] to the planning commission. I just want
[3:44:31] to make sure we are presenting to the
[3:44:32] planning commission for review and
[3:44:35] approval prior to it coming back to the
[3:44:37] council and that it reflects what the
[3:44:40] council's actually looking
[3:44:43] >> at.
[3:44:45] Thomas
[3:44:52] figured out what he
[3:44:57] » took all the all of them off.
[3:44:59] >> Well, the multi-use machine.
[3:45:02] >> Oh, because he talked about even the
[3:45:03] brine. I thought he said he wouldn't do
[3:45:05] anything until
[3:45:09] >> Yeah.
[3:45:10] >> Okay.
[3:45:13] And then I think we just have
[3:45:16] generalities regarding the sewer and
[3:45:18] water system improvements. It's like
[3:45:23] are are we going to seek PEC to help us
[3:45:28] work on some stage information so that
[3:45:29] we have some idea of general costs
[3:45:32] >> per potential expansion of the sewer and
[3:45:35] water systems? Like I I just feel like
[3:45:38] those are general numbers and it they're
[3:45:40] going to be bonded out and it's like we
[3:45:42] don't really have anything specific that
[3:45:43] we're talking about.
[3:45:44] >> So is and is that sewer improvement? So
[3:45:47] that is not um sewer expansion that is
[3:45:50] only sewer.
[3:45:51] >> It says increased capacity.
[3:45:53] >> So that well I I know but is that
[3:45:56] >> increasing the capacity for the
[3:45:58] infrastructure we currently have
[3:46:00] >> or expanding the the infrastructure for
[3:46:04] new development?
[3:46:11] » Okay.
[3:46:18] We need we need to have a plan
[3:46:21] what we're looking
[3:46:23] >> okay
[3:46:25] >> so we're not saving towards that like we
[3:46:30] are we like we do with the with the um
[3:46:33] >> street
[3:46:33] >> the streets
[3:46:35] because the $50,000 so like on woodlon
[3:46:38] overlay
[3:46:40] that's $50,000 per year that we're
[3:46:43] putting into it. So, I would ask that if
[3:46:46] it's something that we are putting in
[3:46:48] annually to build that fund that we
[3:46:51] noted on here that way. So, like like I
[3:46:53] said, for instance, that one, yeah,
[3:46:55] we're putting $50,000 per year every
[3:46:58] year because we know we're going to have it coming and we want something
[3:47:01] saved up. Um, and the the same with the
[3:47:04] park that that is how much is and I know
[3:47:06] it says annual at the beginning, but
[3:47:08] like the woodlon overlay, yes, we expect
[3:47:11] to do it in 2031, but we are still
[3:47:14] putting in $50,000 per year until that
[3:47:16] time and we have been for a while.
[3:47:23] » I guess how did you determine the
[3:47:25] numbers for sewer and water?
[3:47:29] >> I guess that's a question I have.
[3:47:33] Okay.
[3:47:36] And so
[3:47:38] what is your thinking of Yeah. like not
[3:47:41] trying to start building a fund up for
[3:47:43] that? I know that had been talked about
[3:47:44] a few years ago. Um that that was when a
[3:47:48] large mill increase was proposed.
[3:47:54] » Okay.
[3:47:58] Okay.
[3:48:01] So, is there a way that we can put in
[3:48:03] here that yes, we that because we expect
[3:48:06] a regular replacement for the vehicle to
[3:48:09] be in 2028,
[3:48:13] but still have something for a
[3:48:16] contingency
[3:48:17] because I feel like if we look at this
[3:48:19] and it says, hey, we're getting a new
[3:48:21] police car in 2027,
[3:48:24] then we're like, okay, when do we get
[3:48:25] the police car in 2027? And that's
[3:48:28] actually part of our plan. that said I
[3:48:29] mean that we are replacing a vehicle in
[3:48:32] 2027.
[3:48:34] I would almost um
[3:48:37] like wanted to say only in case of an
[3:48:40] emergency. I mean I don't know. I just I
[3:48:42] feel like we are not we as a council
[3:48:45] said that 2028 was the next time we
[3:48:47] wanted to replace a vehicle. But yes, if
[3:48:49] something happens and we have to come up
[3:48:52] with it, I don't want it to not be
[3:48:54] available, right? But I don't want it to
[3:48:56] feel like, oh yes, this is the plan and
[3:48:58] we're going to because that's not what
[3:49:00] we intended the plan to be.
[3:49:03] >> We would have to approve it anyway.
[3:49:09] » We haven't had to approve the
[3:49:12] >> CIP for the sake of this discussion. We
[3:49:14] can change that
[3:49:18] >> have it at 28 knowing that there's the
[3:49:19] it will be money is there
[3:49:22] >> and if something happens. Okay, that
[3:49:24] like I said I would Yeah, that
[3:49:27] >> one.
[3:49:28] >> We're planning on buying one in 28 and
[3:49:31] hopefully nothing happens that we need
[3:49:34] to but
[3:49:36] >> Okay. So,
[3:49:40] » anything else council?
[3:49:43] So this has to go
[3:49:46] >> the planning commission prior. So
[3:49:49] >> two days before the
[3:49:51] >> but well those those changes will be on
[3:49:53] what they see.
[3:49:55] >> Okay. Thank you.
[3:49:58] >> Okay.
[3:49:59] >> If there is nothing else I would you
[3:50:03] have anything else?
[3:50:04] >> I thought I had a question.
[3:50:08] » Um I'm I'm questioned now. I'll ask when
[3:50:11] I come back up to it. Okay. I would then
[3:50:13] entertain a motion to adjurnn. Please. I
[3:50:16] make a motion to adjurnn. Second.
[3:50:19] >> Motion by council member Baldridge,
[3:50:21] second by council member Hedstrom. All
[3:50:22] in favor?
[3:50:23] >> I.
[3:50:25] >> Motion passes 300. We are adjourned.
[3:50:27] Thank you everyone. Have a lovely
[3:50:29] evening. Thank you all for coming.
[3:51:12] Today's not looking like it's
[3:51:49] Yes, it's
[3:51:57] » well that's where so I will say a a
[3:52:00] toilet flapper
[3:52:05] bring
[3:52:10] my keys.
[3:52:11] >> No, not a I mean, so a flapper being
[3:52:14] left open though.
[3:52:17] >> It is. It's going straight down and
[3:52:20] >> Yeah. And if it's like so like we have a
[3:52:23] we have the bathroom that Chris and I
[3:52:24] use.