We recording?
>> All right.
» All right.
>> This meeting is being trans.
» This meeting is being trans.
>> I'd like to call the regular city
» I'd like to call the regular city
council meeting of January 6 to order.
Would you please call the role?
>> Gage here. [clears throat]
» Gage here. [clears throat]
>> Ziggy
» Ziggy
>> here.
» here.
>> Matani
» Matani
>> here. Bradbury here. Gas
» here. Bradbury here. Gas
>> here.
» here.
>> Finnegan
» Finnegan
>> here. Severson
» here. Severson
>> here. Please rise for the pledge of
» here. Please rise for the pledge of
allegiance.
» And to the republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible, with
liberty and justice for all.
[clears throat]
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
The Ketchan City Council would like to
respectfully acknowledge the traditional
first people of this land in Ketchan,
the Tongous Clankish people. Under
communications
uh lay on the table, we have a updated
3B
uh which is updated 7F in regards to um
ordinance number 26 2015 amending third
positions of the Ketchan missile code
water rates. We have an update
uh 3C. It's a agenda item uh the cost
per eru by increasing sewer rate by 8%
and providing for effective date.
We have uh 3D D which is um uh agenda
item seven provide the title of motion
of ordinance 2617
and it has levy of tax uh in regards to
sales tax. Uh
we also have a revised motion for item
5e authorizing procurement replacement
of fire department command vehicle.
Uh one
we have a request to withdraw item 7D
employment contract uh city manager
general manager.
We have a request to withdraw item 15A
with the request of the executive
session negotiation of city manager
employment contract and then we have a
calendar for upcoming
events.
So with that brings us to persons to be
heard. We are going to have a threeminut
rule tonight. Clerk will be keeping uh
the time on that. And so madam clerk who
do we have in front of us first?
>> Steven Reeve.
» Steven Reeve.
Hey
Hi, Stephen Reed.
Um,
I want to be brief. You have a lot on
your agenda tonight, but and I it has to
do with restrooms. I want to comment on
the proposal before you want to thank
public works for their initial effort.
Uh, but my main point tonight to you is
going to be to slow down. Uh, restrooms
are complicated projects. They're
difficult. They're expensive. they often
fail and we need a much better process
for succeeding with this project that's
before you. Um
I
there hasn't really been any public
process yet. There was a meeting on the
19th uh that most of us had already had
holiday plans and couldn't attend. And
that's the only I'm aware of. I've only
learned in the last few days of the uh
two sites that are being proposed to you
and the uh drawings of those sites. Um
in some rabbits support either one of
the sites or the design program that
we're that we're uh moving toward. Um
there are a lot of other sites that
should be considered. I personally don't
think we ought to be looking at large
restroom facilities like eight, nine
units that are expensive, difficult to
police and and manage. Um the sites that
are before you I wanted to quickly
comment on one is uh at 217 Steman next
to the New York Cafe.
Uh that is very problematic. Um it takes
away a net of five. I'm very familiar
with the parking spaces there. It takes
away a net of five parking spaces in an
area that's really overburdened in the
summertime because of the harbor and
other things. We don't have public
parking on Seventh Street. That would
really exacerbate that issue. Um also uh
we uh have long wanted to provide access
up the hill to city and lands that hotel
has up on top of the hill. This would
prevent that access. So we that that's a
serious issue. Um there's no way to de
develop those lands. We have a proposal
for public works now to be able to do
that. Um the other issue there are
adjacent property owners that has a big
impact on both of the properties on
either side of of that site. Uh and it
just can't work there. the other site
that's before you as I understand it and
as I say I'm not totally fluent with
everything that's happening but it's
next to Dolly's house. Um that also is
problematic especially for a proposal
that has like nine units. We don't need
nine units there. Uh there are
property owners on the creek and
business on the creek would like to have
two maybe four units on the creek to
supplement what some property owners are
are willing to do within their own
premises. Uh we don't need a facility
this big and it's hard to it's hard to
manage a facility like that and all the
policing of it that's necessary u when
it's up the boardwalk like that. It also
provides a another destination
attraction which we don't need on the
creek. Uh given the carrying capacity
right now with the the boardwalk, um we
people who really aren't that interested
in the creek but want to use the
bathroom would uh would come there and
that's that's one of the most crowded
spaces we have.
>> So in wrap up, Steve, are you asking us
» So in wrap up, Steve, are you asking us
to have another public meeting in regard
to all these sites? Yeah, I think we
need to review uh I think what I think
we really need to engage affected
property owners too. For example, on
that particular site, I'm doing a
contract right now for the city on uh
Creek Street Historic District and other
historic districts and neighborhoods in
the downtown. And one of the things we
thought would be great on the site would
be a presentation of the indigenous use
of Creek Street for the tens of
thousands of years before white folks
came. And maybe they could maybe that
presentation the panels we imagine could
coexist with a much smaller um much
smaller
restroom unit there. I'm not sure. But
no one has talked to affected
propagators, the groups that represent
places like Creek Street, and uh we need
to slow down a little bit and get their
opinions. We'll do
>> we'll put that on our list.
» we'll put that on our list.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> That's all. Any questions?
» That's all. Any questions?
>> Question.
» Question.
>> Yes. I just have one because uh you know
» Yes. I just have one because uh you know
we hear from people who are very
passionate on this issue that have said
I think rightfully so that we've drugg
our feet and postponed and canceled and
delayed for a long time. So while I hear
you on slowing down, I guess my question
would be do you have an ideal location
you would recommend? Have you thought of
any yet or
>> I I have three or four other locations
» I I have three or four other locations
in the proximity that I'd recommend? I'd
be happy to provide all of those. Um I
also think that we shouldn't give short
thrift to the notion of a mobile unit
initially. Uh that could have a lot of
benefits to the community. Uh I don't
think we should take that off the table.
The other thing is I think we ought to
work constructively with property owners
to see how many units we could pull
together within their businesses. It's
worked in a lot of communities like ours
across the country and I think we I
think we need to consider that. Thank
you.
>> I'd be happy to work with That's why I
» I'd be happy to work with That's why I
think we just need to slow down. I think
a lot of us would be happy to work with
public works on on the site and and on
the other issues that face us.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Dalton Arnold.
» Hello. Um, last time I was here, I gave
everybody a word doc on how to move more
agriculture here to Alaska because
there's food shortage. I'm apparently
experiencing a food shortage.
Okay, so we do have mountain lines. I've
had very close encounters. I spend a lot
of time these days. Um, they do exist
and I did speak to Saxman and he also
said there's mountain lines. So I don't
know exactly how many there are. I can
verify two between 70 and 130 pounds.
So, and Paul Hamilton, my boss, has one
off game camera. So, they do exist. And
I was running around and seeing
everybody during deer season. And we
don't have a lot of big game bucks. So,
right now, it's just a slaughter for the
deer. I've been throwing crab pots these
past couple nights. The crabs are small,
so we can't supplement with crab right
now. at least for the next four years.
And uh been trying to network with
everybody out here in the harbors
because we got a bunch of broke down
boats. My boat's broke down. I currently
just got a uh
they're going to impound it within the
next 5 days.
My ID I'm actually I'm a Missurrian, but
I have a Texas ID and it's broken and
I've had two birth certificates not show
up to me in the mail. So, I still
haven't been able to become Alaskan
citizen here and my votes going to get
packed.
Very problematic. Like to work together
with everybody.
» Thank you.
>> I'll be back at the book,
» John Flora.
My name is John Flora. I live at 1127
Woodland and as most of you know, I'm
also the owner of Yellow Fac. I'm here
tonight to discuss the need for changing
the requirements for a person to obtain
a taxi license and catch a taxi industry
is probably about 40 people short of
being properly staffed. the the current
system we have is too restrictive and
more importantly it's too antiquated.
The time frame is too long. Um
everything that has to be done to get a
cab license in in catch can has to be
done or virtually everything has to be
done in Ketchacan. Right now there's
people down south starting to think
about summer jobs. I have no way to
recruit those people. I have no way to
sign them up. Um, and by the time they
do get here, they either have a job or
they're not they don't want to wait the
10 days to two weeks it takes to get a
taxi license. They go get another job
out of the thousands that we have here.
So, my ask is that we change the local
ordinance
to pattern itself after the TMC law that
was passed six, seven years ago that
allowed Uber. What that would involve is
the companies would do most of the work
to vet the drivers, both criminal and
driving record. That information would
make its way to the police, so the
police would have it in their records,
but there would be no longer a citysued
cab license. We would issue a company ID
that indicated we vetted these people.
The crime report would be on file, the
driving record would be on file.
uh we can put in periodic updates of of
those information of that information,
but if we don't change something fast,
and I I know speed isn't necessarily you
folks's problem, but um I I probably
should have started this three months
ago. That's my fault, but uh anything we
can do this quicker than later, uh would
be great.
Um, I should mention I met with the
chief yesterday and I feel that went
really well and I certainly don't speak
for him of course but I do believe he
expressed a willingness to go forward
you know look at this concept obviously
the devil's in the details but he was
willing to discuss it further with
whoever was wanted to look into it with
him. So, I guess my ask is please direct
staff to whatever you I I've never been
in non-aggenda items, so I don't really
know how to move forward, but [laughter]
please direct staff to however you
direct them. And uh I know at the end of
this meeting there's future agenda
items. If I could please be added to
hopefully the near future agenda item,
I'd certainly appreciate it.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> That's it. Ryan
» That's it. Ryan
>> Ryan, could you uh elaborate a little
» Ryan, could you uh elaborate a little
bit? You mentioned that uh Uber, as I
say, we now have some Uber cars around
town. They do a
>> uh for to basically summarize what you
» uh for to basically summarize what you
said, they do the vetting of their
licensing themselves. And that is that
what I heard and that's basically you're
asking for a similar uh process to what
they have
>> pretty much identical to them. They they
» pretty much identical to them. They they
you can sign up on Uber completely
online. Um they pull your driving
record. They do a criminal background
check. We'd be using thirdparty
services. We're not going to be doing
the criminal. We will hire somebody.
There's different uh businesses. You
hire somebody to do the criminal. So,
it'll be some kind of professional
background check done by a third party.
Same thing. Well, the MVR, the motor
vehicle records, some of those I can
pull myself from other states. Others
you have to hire a service. Every
state's different. And
that's kind of the point. It was like
right now if somebody from Texas showed
up and wants to drive a cab, they got to
send an affidavit clear back to Texas,
wait two weeks for the DMV to mail them
their driving record and by that time,
you know, they've long lost interest.
>> Your honor,
» Your honor,
>> yes, I needed clarification from the
» yes, I needed clarification from the
clerk. Can this be done online?
>> The this application for the drivers
» The this application for the drivers
>> not right now. No. can be converted in
» not right now. No. can be converted in
some way so that
>> well we would have to bring back an
» well we would have to bring back an
ordinance for revision.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Thank you all very much. Appreciate it.
» Diane Reed.
» Good evening honorable mayor city
council members. I'll pray five minutes
[laughter]
but uh thank you very much. I'll try to
go as quickly as I can. I was kind read
16 Water Street. Um, a little bit
background really quickly about me. If
you don't know me, um, I I did work on
that. I put together that uh the lose
blue bathroom years ago. Um, so I've
gone through the bathroom process. Have
some familiar background. I was the
planner from the burrow years ago. I'm
the manager of the transit system now,
but I also own property and businesses
directly abuing and adjacent to both the
spots that you're considering.
for bathrooms. Uh so I basically would
echo everything that my dad said over
there, Stephen Reed, but I would also
like to add for the the parking loss of
parking there that that it truly is a
net loss of five. If you go in there at
any time, you can see that there's six.
We use the ramp on the end. There's a
actually a two-hour meter made parking
sign up there and historically there's
always been six if you've been in there.
So obviously there's a net loss in it
because you've gained one on the on the
street there. I think more importantly
as he said uh it's really an economic
development thing. I mean there's tax
based potential there's real estate the
city owns private sector owns there's
possible for parking up there. We've
done planning in the past that
identifies parking up there. So by
landlocking all those lots up there I
get it's a horrible economic decision in
turning and losing those that parking.
That parking is two-hour parking. It
plays a big role to support the the
marina. I mean the the the space bas
it's it's it it's an anchor parking lot
for Creek Street. As you all know, you
can't drive on drive cars on the creek.
So, we rely heavily on that two-hour
parking to support the businesses on the
creek and all alongside the street. So,
I I think it's a horrible idea there. I
think there's some significant flaws in
the design of the bathroom. And the
reason I say this is because I spent a
year and a half. I've been to so many
city council meetings as some of you
know might have been around. We spent a
lot of time putting that blue together.
And it was because we we actually had a
traditional plan that was identified in
the neighborhood uh revitalization plan
for for Ketchacan. There were
traditional bathrooms there much like
the ones that that were designed by
public works now, but we moved away from
those because of the safety and
security. And that's why we ended up
with the Portland concept, right?
Unfortunately, I know there's flaws with
it, but you'll see that in cities,
states all across the country. We were
the first city in the United States, I'm
proud to say, and they're all across the
country. New York just did five this
last year. So, and they're
internationally used as well. So, that
sort of model, if you don't have
supervision, the concierge or the
attendant model, it's going to be
critical uh to to look at that type of
stall. The stalls that were designed,
you know, adjacent to New York, for
example, they had an open area where you
walk in and then close the door with
multiple stalls in there. We failed at
the airport parking lot. We called that
the Golden Loop, right? The one that we
had for two hour or two years, I think
three years that were at the airport. I
think you might all recall we tore that
one down, right? Partly because we
didn't plan ahead for the G4V. We didn't
plan ahead for the airport. We also made
an unsafe uh an unsafe restroom there.
So, I highly encourage you to uh to not
place the restroom there. Um I would
recommend the mobile solution as well. I
would recommend Whale Park as a good
solution to minimize parking loss.
Discovery Center that you've already
identified would be a good solution.
Those are both great interim solutions.
In the meantime, let's put together a
comprehensive plan. We're looking at
public amenities. We can't gate up our
bus stops. We can't gate up our shelters
at birth three. We can't remove all the
benches in town, right? We have to come
up with a plan to manage public
amenities. I think part of that is going
to be working with your legal
department, with your police department.
We have to figure out a way to not to to
enforce these laws and make safe places
for people to use the bathroom and use
public amenities. Before we spend any
more public money, let's figure out that
stuff first. Let's figure it out. Mobile
[clears throat] solutions is a great
one. Spend a couple hundred thousand
dollars. You can always move it. You can
sell it. You can rent it. You can use it
for other civic opportunities. I think
the mobile solution is an excellent
first phase, first step, safe step, and
you don't risk wasting taxpayer money
like we did at the airport with that
one. So, anyways, thank you very much
for your time. If you have any
questions, be happy to answer.
>> Any question?
» Any question?
>> Thank you, Stephen. Thank you,
» Thank you, Stephen. Thank you,
>> Andrew Zinc.
» Hello, Andrew Zinc. Uh, 25 Jefferson
Way. And, uh, one, I'd like to start and
say I'm really glad that the Reeves
showed up before me because I think they
made a lot of great points and I also
agree with a lot of those. Um, as a
business owner on the Creek at 21 Creek
Street, Fernick's general store and also
Ketchan Dry Goods, which is right next
to the lot. Um, I think both uh spots
prevent or pro have issues. One is
taking away a little bit of green space
on the creek, but also adding in extra
traffic in a really narrow boardwalk
seems like a bad idea. Um, the second
one, taking away parking spots, I think
will be an issue. Parking is already
limited. Um, locals use those, staff use
those, and so taking away parking spots
right next to the building is an issue.
Um, and so those are my concerns with
those two locations. When I thought
about this project, um I think there are
some opportunities for actually
encouraging development in the town.
Placing bathrooms um further down Steman
Street towards Salvation Army will help
drive some foot traffic that way. That
will help with getting foot traffic to
the businesses that are already there,
but also give an incentive for the
buildings that are currently empty or
underutilized. Um and so I think that's
actually an opportunity with this
project to actually have some extra
benefit to the community.
Thank you.
>> Thank you, Andy.
» Thank you, Andy.
Any question?
I don't see any.
>> Great.
» Hamilton Gellar.
>> Yeah, I sent an email earlier today to
» Yeah, I sent an email earlier today to
you guys. I don't know how many you guys
had received it, but it was this.
Let me start it over because it's very
important. The first part is what? What
do you see? Creek Street. That's my
property there being advertised on
social media to sell cruise ships.
Expected to get 1.75 million people.
That's biking. They make a lot of money.
Okay, here's MSC cruises. New to catch
can advertising what? Creek Street.
That's what they're advertising. Both in
both ads. It's the only human
settlement. They're advertising bears,
whales, Creek Street.
Two years ago, you guys hired this
person. I think she's here in the
audience. I called her earlier today. I
asked her what she had accomplished in
the last two years. She proceeded to ask
me which organization I was
representing. I thought I would you
would know that
I'm in tourism.
You guys hired a tourism manager and
nobody knows who she is. And that's why
we're here today talking about
bathrooms. That's why Steven's up here
opposing bathrooms, saying that there's
not enough time to discuss this issue.
Some plans have been proposed by the
city, not by any citizen, but by the
city. The city came up with these ideas
or ideas. Two were selected. He doesn't
like them because they're both next to
his properties. I wish they weren't next
to your property, Stephen. Sorry about
that. [snorts] So, the city of Ketchan
tourism manager Ro created man. So she
took this picture on Creek Street. I
Nobody on Creek Street knows who she is.
So you guys want to raise the taxes, but
we see these government the manager. Why
not just cut her job? Cuz she's not
doing any of these things that are on
this board. She is a liaison for the
community and industry and develop
sustainable visitor strategies. What you
guys have coming in this summer is not
sustainable. It's not at all. like the
boardwalk is too small. There's there's
like it's the same infrastructure as
there was in 2008. There's nothing
really changed.
She's reporting directly to the city
manager. She has extensive Alaskan
tourism experience. Not sure what that
is. I don't know. Can any I I've asked
you guys a lot of times what what that
is or why she is still in this position.
Uh, she focuses on balancing community
needs with the visitor economy. I don't
think that's been done. I have one of
the most successful businesses on Creek
Street. That's not the case. The tourism
manager position was established to
address challenges arising from high
visitor volumes. If she would have been
doing that, we would have been
discussing bathrooms in 2003, right
after she was hired. She would have come
down and talked to every one of us.
because she says she is a it's a
liaison. This is straight from the
internet. I'm not making this stuff up.
It says she's a liaison. So, how does
that work out that we're discussing two
years later that we need bathrooms on
Creek Street? And also, I asked her what
was discussed here on October 13th in
this meeting with Clea. Uh Clea meets
with uh the city of Ketchan it looks
like annually. So I looked up what is
CLEA? I don't know how many people in
Katchetan know who Clea is. I I know a
lot of people don't know who it is. So
this is their background information
that I got from their lawsuit when they
sued Juno in 2016. [snorts]
I don't know a lot of people know but
they sued Skagway last summer too. Clea
did uh the plaintiffs. CLEA Cruise Line
International Association of Alaska is a
non-forprofit association of 12 cruise
ship lines which works to build positive
relationships with communities and
government agencies in Alaska. I don't
think they're doing that. I don't think
we have a positive relationship in
Ketchan with the locals, with the
businesses, with cruise ships.
I don't know. Maybe you guys can say
there is but I don't think there is and
I'm in tourism.
Uh so the next this is very important.
Um and to protect its members legal
interests. That's what is being done
here. Clea is basically a gold miner
manipulating
the local economy, taking all that money
out of here, not building like if Cleo
was had wanted to to to make and develop
strong partnerships. Couldn't the
tourism manager just call up says
there's 12 cruise lines. Couldn't she
just make a phone call and say, "Hey,
Norwegian, we got a problem. We need we
need the bathroom." bad.
Hey, Viking, we see you're advertising
Creek Street. We need a hundred
thousand. Like to them, that's nothing.
They make billions. Billions.
They make like [clears throat] I don't
know how many billions, but you guys are
getting screwed. You guys make like 12
billion. And a lot of locals are
wondering where does that money go if
you can't even decide to build bathrooms
on the most visited street and catch
camp.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> You have any questions?
» You have any questions?
>> Any questions?
» Any questions?
Yeah, good.
>> Thank you for asking me a question. I
» Thank you for asking me a question. I
must say that when somebody comes up
here, I feel like you guys should always
organize so at least one person asks a
question and makes it feel like the
citizens are actually being listened to.
So, thank you very much, Riley.
>> No problem. Uh, so I don't want to try
» No problem. Uh, so I don't want to try
to read your mind. Just to be clear, you
are in support of choosing one of those
two locations for a bathroom. Is that
correct? And if so, which one do you
prefer? I would prefer Dolly's House. I
mean, it makes sense. It's the only
Bordello museum in Ketchacan. It's It's
a very prominent location. Maybe Steven
would prefer a scaled down version. I
personally don't know if it needs to be
six bathrooms with a family bathroom.
All I know is we need a one bathroom.
Like one, just make it one. Doesn't
matter if there's two, one, at least
one.
one for each
and to send somebody from [snorts]
the like say they're by the tram and
they are where's the bathroom? They have
no idea. They think catch can's big, you
know, they've never been here. So you
send them down the boardwalk, there's
people taking pictures of the Creek
Street sign all the time. That walkway
is only like 48 in wide. If you were in
a wheelchair, if you had a walker, you
wouldn't be able to pass that person
there because it's so limited in space.
You'd actually just have to pull over to
the side and wait. And there's an
overabundance of people in that entrance
area by the bridge and they just come on
there. I feel like that's a great
location for a bathroom. I thought maybe
it would be a good location behind the
Star building either. There's limited
space, but I mean the sewer is just all
right there.
Um, personally, Stephen is not in
retail. Neither is Cayenne. Um, I'm in
retail. No, I'm telling you, I know all
the retail people on Creek Street. And
there's not one single person that would
say, "Yeah, let's just have everybody in
and in in my bathroom." Then we're not
even re retailers. That would hinder my
economic development. I wouldn't even be
able to sell stuff. I'd be like
maintaining a bathroom. I mean, if y'all
want that to happen, buy my building.
I'll sell it. Like, if a bathroom's too
expensive by Dolly's, I'll sell you
mine. It'll be great. And I'll go away
and shut up.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Can I get five more minutes?
» Can I get five more minutes?
[laughter]
>> If he wanted economic development,
» If he wanted economic development,
develop develop his place on
>> Hey, that's enough. He's got undeveloped
» Hey, that's enough. He's got undeveloped
places. All right.
>> Thank you. Anybody
» Thank you. Anybody
else?
>> Yes, there is one other uh person and I
» Yes, there is one other uh person and I
cannot. It's Carari.
>> Oh, no. I had Sorry, I thought you have
» Oh, no. I had Sorry, I thought you have
to.
>> Oh, with that. Oh, okay. Okay. Thank
» Oh, with that. Oh, okay. Okay. Thank
you.
>> We have Mary.
» We have Mary.
>> I was coming if I could.
» I was coming if I could.
>> Let me get you the microphone. Hey
» Let me get you the microphone. Hey
there, Mary.
>> Oh,
everybody's got a little flyer. Mary,
it's been a couple of weeks. day and
night on my nomination is going to be
the married man's
restroom there at Creek.
I
really laid out a nice uh coordination
of information about the building goes
back to the 1920s.
What is this building used for if not
for a restroom? We don't need another
gift shop and maybe not another
restaurant. I'd also like to take more
time with the other handout is that we
are recruiting, we should be recruiting
u more restrooms as I'm calling it, more
Johns. Uh following the template of
Sitka, it's been brought up a couple of
times. There is their agreement on that
flyer there. I've stolen a couple of
their words of of it. Um but I but by
they failed
um were not happy with. They did get
good turnout for merchants as I
understand, but Sitka came up with a
stipen of $2,000.
There's [snorts]
53 days
in our season and that boils down to $13
a day. Those people were getting paid
for, thank you very much, to leaving
their bathroom open. I maintain, as you
will see, we offer two opportunities.
grant a
which
set up an RFP and you find your uh
janitorial service that will go out
service these merchants who have said
yes we'd like to participate and uh the
CPV fund would have paid for a daily
visit and um the paper supplies that's
grant A grant B is where you model after
the Alaska a heating uh assistance
program in which uh it's a stipen of
$750.
Uh it's given to directly if I qualify,
which I do, it's given directly to uh
KPU and they will cut a check for my
utilities until that $750 is exhausted.
It's about two and a half months. So in
grant A, uh if that business owner says
yes, they're going to get services. Uh
and B is um a stipen. Now business uh
wastewater and water averages about $37
a month. So when we crunch the numbers,
um this is a very nice package that
we're reaching out to those businesses
on the front line to come up with one or
two of their bathrooms. And there is a
criteria which stated right at the front
that the business has to post a sign
we're open. They must stay open the
entire um day for the whole season.
and there's a certain agreement of it.
Now, I maintain we have to do a
marketing effort. Uh the visitor center,
the chamber of commerce, the city itself
puts out a blitz in its marketing and
says we're looking for a few good
businesses and get them signed up and
get it ready by April, pushing it by
June 1st. And I think you've got four,
not five bathrooms located throughout
downtown that's ready to go. and that's
going to carry us over through uh the
summer. If you feel you've got to spend
$200,000 for a mobile unit,
okay, but I think that I know of three
businesses who have told me four years
ago when I did this effort, I've been
championing this cause for four years
and I know there's businesses ready to
go. They've always said no because the
of the water three $400 bill uh and also
the supplies and and the whatever. But
we've got the talent. We've got CPV
funds ready to go and you've got five
bathrooms. It's a no-brainer. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Mary.
» Thank you, Mary.
There. Anybody else that wish to speak?
Council tonight.
[clears throat]
Um,
we do have a presentation
um from Jagan
shipyard. The council wish to do it
before consent or after? Before after.
» All right. So, we're going to move that
item
ahead of consent. So, Berg,
>> thank you for the choice of before. Good
» thank you for the choice of before. Good
evening, honor mayor and council.
» Bergman Wheeler, uh, 17 Shoot Street.
So, not speaking for the city, um, but
speaking as the giant catch can general
manager, and I have a presentation to
display when it cues up.
Yes.
So, while that gets loaded, I'll let you
guys know. Um, Jag has taken over
custody of Ada shipyard, Ketchan
shipyard. We are the new operators
there. And there was a meeting uh
between ADA city members, public works,
power uh bureau members, ADA, local
delegates and delegation. So some of
this information was presented there.
I've updated some of this information as
well. So for those that you saw, those
of you that saw that or were at that
meeting or read the newspaper articles,
there are some regurgitated facts. Um
but as I hadn't gotten before the city
council yet, I wanted to present these
facts to you all and those listening and
watching as well. So, as you'll see
before you, um, you'll see our our
paradigm of, you know, five key
components to success. Um, this is
JAG's,
let's call it, their their guide book,
their playbook, per se. Um, each one of
those components works towards success
of a business unit and overall the
entire Jag Marine Group. Uh, speaking of
Jag Marine Group, I I'm remissed to say
Tim Jigelski wanted to join me here
tonight, but he was unable to make the
the flight down to catch because he had
other pressing business matters that
came up and he is the co-owner of Jag.
So, I'm not just standing before you
only representing a company as a local,
but also he wanted to be here in person
in a tent. So, as you can see, the
shared vision of these different key
elements are with our customers. This
really combines to make a successful
business enterprise whether it is at an
industrial shipyard or a retail store on
Creek Street or any type of you know
type of situation like that. Um at the
top of it you'll see work safely and
that'll be covered in ne the next slide.
Uh safety is paramount at a heavy
industrial shipyard. Safety is paramount
of course anywhere in your guys' houses
anywhere around town with our tourist
incumbents and of course at a heavy
industrial type of place. It is each and
every second uh critical there. So um
execution of these you know objectives
brings uh a total coefficient of loyalty
and repeat customers um best value to
our customers which our customer base
has expanded in the recent uh last 3
months four months um and then expansion
of opportunities because customers want
to come back. Next slide please.
Like I said safety is the forerunner and
most focal point thing at the shipyard.
Um it has to be Jags. Uh so you guys
might have seen in the paper previously
that we had uh we have been recognized
at our shipyard for multiple safety
awards uh year-over-year for excellence
in safety which is based on a um a
recordable rate. I won't go into all the
acronyms but Jags rate exceeds that even
as you'll see there. uh the rate when
this slide was pulled was 0.5
which means it's an exponentially low
and that 0.5 is a it's a mathematical
equation means amount of injuries
calculated into the amount of hours
worked so I won't go into the minutiae
on there but it's it's an industry
standard and we're quite quite below the
industry standard um which is a it's a
very good thing for anybody listening
who wants a job there that's a good
thing because that means we're very safe
so along among other things that I'll
get to as we go along in this
presentation um and let's roll to the
next slide
So, as you'll see before you, the base
trajectory started in 2017 at the Jagen
Marine Group during the acquisition
right before this acquisition of the
Seward Shipyard. This is just a 10-year
span approximately. Obviously, we're in
26, not 27. You can see the exponential
growth that has been projected along the
lines of this company. The acquisition
of Seward Shipyard was in 2018 and 2019.
You can see the increase there. Um, and
additionally, the catch can shipyard was
added in Q4 of 2025.
the overall trajectory is based off of
the revenue and the plan for the you
know the actual company. So it's uh
growing exponentially and there's a lot
of uh potential and a lot of tangible
gains that'll be made throughout these
next couple coming years and into the
future beyond. Next slide please.
» Um did you skip over or just double
click?
» This is the next one. Perfect. Sorry.
>> Um, no worries. Saw the flash. So,
» Um, no worries. Saw the flash. So,
before you see the headcount,
everyone always wants to talk about the
labor. Let's talk about what how many
people are working at the shipyard. Uh,
the headcount graph before you also
shows the exponential growth of the
catch shipyard, but I wanted to put some
different facts in there. The
presentation that I made to the burough,
no disrespect to the burrow. Uh, I have
modified the slide. So, the presentation
for all those you watching, the slide is
slightly different. So, pay attention
please. uh because you had some of these
questions along the lines and I put that
in the final slide as well not to dis
diminish the city of court council of
course. So when Jag took over the
custody of the shipyard, there was eight
souls that are working, myself included.
Um, as of 15, the total count is 173
people that are working there. Now, of
course, some of those are traveling
people. Again does not have 173 people
that are going to work in industrial
trades, but we do have 90 full-time
residents at this point and bringing in
more, constantly hiring more people. um
whether that be drivers to the vans
around town, people that are laborers, I
need an admin. So if anybody wants to be
an ad and really love one of those, Evie
Bermudas would appreciate you greatly
and lots of other type of roles. So when
I built the slide just two weeks ago, we
actually had more traveling personnel
versus Alaskan personnel. So that
paradigm, that 4% metric is actually
shifting and it's constantly evolving
towards the heavier to Alaskan
residents, which is our purview. It's
our goal. It's more economically viable.
It's more efficient for the city, for
the bureau, for our business. to have
people living here, staying here, you
know, eating, spending their money here,
which are traveling people do as well,
but that way we're not paying them for
DM and lodging. Um, and above factors do
not include all the other things I
listed, which is the vessel crews. I
mean, both those Noah ships that are
down in the shipyard right now have 20
30 people, um, plus the subcontractors,
the tech reps. I mean, there there's,
you know, the shipyard is quite busy and
full of people right now. Next slide,
please.
>> Your honor.
» Your honor.
>> Yes. Thank you, Brian, for presentation.
» Yes. Thank you, Brian, for presentation.
I have a question.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Uh you're talking about employment with
» Uh you're talking about employment with
48% uh travelers and 52% uh Alaskan
residents. Have you thought of any
apprentice program so that you can
incorporate kids from within the state
and within the city and borrow district?
>> Yes, we've uh discussed that with
» Yes, we've uh discussed that with
leadership in Jag. Um they did a bring a
person along for a summer in Seward. I
don't have the exact facts ironed out at
this point in time, but it's been
discussed. It's on my workforce
development notebook that I've been Yes.
moving forward. Um was contacted by the
Southeast Island School District
yesterday about some kids who wanted to
potentially come work at the shipyard
when they get out of school. I'm touring
them on Friday. So that's 16 youth who
want to come look at the shipyard. And
so to the exact tangible answer to your
question, I do not have an
apprenticeship exactly at this point in
time. It is, but I am working to develop
something along those lines. I just
don't fully know what it is yet because
I'm still learning what work for and how
it's all going together.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Good idea.
» Next slide talks about historical
utilization. Of course, all these graphs
are similar. You'll see a very, you
know, similar line between them. Um,
increased occupancy of the shipyard,
increased staffing of the shipyard, and
increased work at the shipyard. over the
previous five years, the catch can
shipyard um basically we say the book
business it shows 2.7% growth compared
to the pre prior five-year average.
You'll see the graph I took out 2025
because that was a slightly skewed year
due to all the events that went on. But
the uh forecast of 2026 and 2027 the
booked is in the let's call it orange or
yellow. The known and highly likely is
in the green and then the potential
would be in the red. So you can see that
we're at a 400% potential uh increase in
overall utilization of the shipyard
compared to what was um previously being
utilized at the shipyard. So uh it's an
extreme upside and there will be an
answer of why we are so much more have
so much more potential when I get to the
question slide. Next slide please.
So off to the races. 919 we got the keys
and had a project on day one. Uh this is
a question that came up. So I wanted to
throw this slide in there. Um
we had initial projects that have
already been completed. It's the circle
eye that grounding. We did not do the
grounding repair but we supported that
project allowing them to get out of here
uh down to their their winter harbridge
and would have happy would have happy to
[clears throat] support that project but
it was we already had vessels up on the
dry dog. Tasine has been performed.
Latuya, Oral Freeman, which I know is a
sticking point uh a sore spot, I'll say,
with the ongoing events of everything as
the shipyard evolved to where it is
today, and also a couple other AMHs
vessels. Uh underway, we have the Noah
Reineer, the Noah Okianos Explorer, uh
the ADFG Kestrel, which has never been
performed at the shipyard, and neither
has Norah ever been Noah ever been
docked at the shipyard. Um so that these
are major successes straight out the
gate uh getting awarded those Noah
projects and this ADF and Jeep uh
vessel. We've performed work for the
state in Alaska Park and fishing game
prior to but that vessel has not been
awarded here. Um additionally we also
have the fair weather project which just
started on Monday doide availability
down at the base. So we currently have
three Noah projects
and as of 6 months ago we never had a
Noah project this shipyard. So uh those
are very good things. Um, additionally,
we have a couple AMHS vessels, Laconi
and Colombia have come in. Um, since the
Kenny cott's back online facility
projects, I wanted to touch on this and
I was remissed in my last presentation.
The receiving slab at the shipyard has
been a point of discussion. We have
completed the operational repairs. It is
not a permanent repair. Permanent
repairs are also being assessed and
discussed with DOT and ADA. But as you
can see, that picture drastically shows
that there is a vessel on that receiving
slab. So, we performed the repairs
immediately. We were breaking concrete
within the first week of occupancy and
or reoccupancy. I never really left. Um
but I basically sleep there. Um and so
that way we could get the first vessel
across which was the rainer which is now
inside the assembly hall and then get
the kestrel right behind me. So that's a
huge huge uh milestone and um yeah
there's still an ongoing underlying
issues with the slab but it is safe for
utilization and economic development at
the ship or economic revenue at the
shipier.
Additionally, transfer card overhauls
about $110,000 in bearings. And I didn't
want to put a giant list of other things
we fixed, but that was a big thing that
the community talked about. People had
asked me about and so the transfer slab
is in full operation at this point in
time. Next slide, please.
» Q&A real quick. How did JAG immediately
double triple the amount of work in the
catch can shipyard? Um, we aggressively
target a broader spectrum. uh whether
it's you know United States Coast Guard,
we are JAG is one of the most premier
and prime contractors for the United
States Coast Guard in the entire
country. We are a mobile shipyard. We
secure approximately 30 to 40% of all
bids on on a lot of the cutters. We um
we also bid aggressively and further
abroad. The Noah Okianis Explorer that's
here is homeported in Hawaii. So we were
competing against the entire West Coast
and Hawaii and we won and we have that
vessel here. So it is a lot broader
spectrum. Um the MSSE, the US Army Corps
of Engineers, um those vessels typically
go to facilities in um along the West
Coast and so we're also bidding in
aggressively after those vessels to pull
them here as well. Um you know, we we
just we have a very lean overhead as
well. um that at times comes into a more
constrictive fashion, seeing as how you
don't have the overall structure as
well, but you have very competitive edge
when everyone is actually out there
performing work on the vessels or able
to lift up something and do something um
productively for the project overall.
Not saying anybody does didn't, but it
allows for better competitiveness.
Next question that you might potentially
have thought, how's Jag dealing with the
employee lodging issues? Because we
always talk about housing. I've always
talked about housing and sat here before
you and said we need more housing. Well,
we bought housing. Uh, Jag did. We did.
And so we closed on the, uh, Trident
Cape Fox bunk house. I was actually
walking through it and figuring out
outfitting. And then I'm walking through
with Mar a contractor here shortly
tomorrow to start remodeling it to add
more occupancy rooms. So, we're working
on that for transient and also people
who want to stay there or in people.
somebody wants to move up here and
figure out where they want to go and
they want to rent a room there in
company um you know or get a room there
that's that's also something we're
trying to work on there so what can you
guys do single family housing of course
is always an issue here in Ketchan
whether it's just opening up more land
working together I have reached out to
Deborah and her and I'll meet up again
later uh Jag also looked at acquiring
land seward and making a big housing
development for single family housing
single family housing um because we've
already brought people up here who want
to move here and want to live here, but
finding housing effectively and
efficiently is a little difficult when
you're new to catch can. So, this covers
our transient need, diminishes the load
on Ketchan during the summer occupancy,
and also helps us with short-term
lodging for anybody in our organization
who needs it. Long-term, like I said,
family homes, you know, it's the most
critical thing that I could say, and of
course, all of you could potentially
agree. Um, so moving on that.
>> Yes, please.
» Yes, please.
>> I have a question. Um, so my
» I have a question. Um, so my
understanding is so you have a spot in
Skagway
>> Sewart.
» Sewart.
>> Sewart, excuse, sorry. Um, and then
» Sewart, excuse, sorry. Um, and then
>> I don't know why Skagway is on my mind.
» I don't know why Skagway is on my mind.
Um, maybe it's the snow.
>> I heard you're also looking at wrangle.
» I heard you're also looking at wrangle.
So, what's the commitment and like
what's the work?
>> I I just can't even
» I I just can't even
>> You don't see the amount of workload
» You don't see the amount of workload
because I've stood here before you and
told you there's not enough workload out
there. [laughter]
>> I have a
» I have a
That's that's perfectly honest and and
and fine question. Um Seward has plenty
of work right now. I can't fit more
boats right now. And there's other
shipyards that are about 6 and 700 miles
away that I know the amount of work they
go after, bid on and also compete with.
And none of those ships have ever came
to the Alaskan waters nor bid be bid for
the Alaskan waters. there is a large
market share for some other potential
our potential competitors that are
nearby that we could compete with all of
the vessels that they currently also go
after. So I would say there is plenty of
work if we even had the wrangle shipyard
in full operation catch shipyard and
sewage shipyard. [snorts]
>> Nice. Nice
» Nice. Nice
>> because we are competitor now. We're not
» because we are competitor now. We're not
Yeah. Anyways um additionally
>> being more aggressive.
» being more aggressive.
>> Yes. Yeah. that and also catches can
» Yes. Yeah. that and also catches can
shipyard doesn't have the capacity for
our ice breakers. So there's also
conversations with uh federal delegation
to potentially put a third dry dock in
South Birth. The DOT is also in that
conversation. There's not a slide on
that, but that would increase our
occupancy here, but that's only one. If
we get four to six ice breakers in
Alaskan waters defending American
waters, then we'd have a rotationary
budgetary cycle for I think it's $1.7
billion as defense for the ice breakers
alone. So I mean, you're going to need
more shipyards in potential. So if we
have the ability to bid and execute
because we get all the Coast Guard, Jay
gets all the Coastg Guard icebreaker
work. So you need more occupancy. So
Wrangle will be a prime site for that.
There's also MSC which is military seal
of lift command. All those ships are
service down south
>> and right and in Hawaii. Yes.
» and right and in Hawaii. Yes.
>> We also talking 6 700t ships.
» We also talking 6 700t ships.
>> Uh we were aggressively going after a
» Uh we were aggressively going after a
tao or the ketchan shipyard potentially.
We were entertaining it and looking at
it and I believe we're submitting on it.
Um that vessel is
Um it's large I'll put it that way. It
requires a lot of power and a lot of
service that is not it we can do the job
but you know being able to catch only
has so much infrastructure. Same thing
with sewart. So this would add that max
cap. It would be putting you know cruise
ship dock in per se allowing you to
perform on vessels that size. So
>> So you're looking at extending that that
» So you're looking at extending that that
pro or the the shipyard or too.
>> We'll extend everywhere we can.
» We'll extend everywhere we can.
Yep.
Did that answer it clearly? Excellent.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Um, next one is what problems getting
» Um, next one is what problems getting
skilled employees? Uh, we have an
unlimited supply of skilled workers.
They are traveling workers. So,
apprentichip programs, that's a great
thing. Hiring people in, putting them
beside somebody and getting them to
learn and work their way up is something
that we're a severe advocate of and in
the process of. um been hiring in plenty
of people who are not top tier qualified
but are willing to work hard that is the
first I mean if anybody listening if you
want to pee clean and work your butt off
and make a lot of money there is an
excellent opportunity there you will
work a lot though um because we like to
work a lot at a ship it's a good thing
so um you know problems getting skilled
employees isn't the exact thing it's
it's if we want to bring them and have
them live here in Ketchan we want to
grow our base here in Ketchan so that
goes back to the housing piece that
we're also working on and also the
pipeline with high school with uh KIC
with the local community college or
local college, excuse me. Um yeah, what
resources explored to build Alaskan
resident employee base? Uh like I just
talked about all those. We're also
bringing in I just brought in somebody
from ABTE which is the technical school
in Seward. So working there. Uh I
brought a guy down off pipeline. Usually
loose people up there but I actually
brought one in. I'm also flying people
up from down south um that want to move
here. Uh currently two uh marine
contractors closed their doors in the
last couple weeks and so we've been
working with their former employees as
well to see if they want to come up to
our great catch again camp. Excuse me.
And last but not least question uh what
can you all do to help right um you
already do enough of course we all do
but there's lots of things that can be
done of course additionally. So I'm
going to start in the bottom and just
talk about the hub zone status we've
submitted for hub zone status for catch
can which we for our shipyard. What that
means is it allows us to be more
competitive and have a percentage uh
advantage for bidding. Um catch scan in
the summer is not economically
depressed. Catch scan in the winter is
economically depressed. So hub zone
status would be applied if approved
through the the
department of commerce would allow us to
be more competitively bid. So when
somebody asks you about that, if you are
in favor of it, please verbalize that.
If you're not, of course, that's your
own prerogative and I respect that as
well. But um this would benefit the
economy of catch can and benefit putting
more jobs here as well and bidding more
jobs. Um and then identifying additional
opportunities is always a thing. Um if
you guys come up with something or want
us to look at something and be happy to
look at it, please shoot me an email or
get a hold of us in any way, shape or
form.
And I took more than three minutes. I do
apologize. And any questions? Next
slide, please.
>> I have one about the Can you explain the
» I have one about the Can you explain the
hub status?
I don't have an extreme understanding of
it. I have a general understanding of
it. I haven't read into it in depth. I
know I put it together. It's based on
the amount of residents that we have
working here and we meet that
qualification. It's based on it allows
us to
and I know if my boss is watching
wondering why I'm not, you know, saying
so eloquently because I usually have a
very articulate answer. um it allows the
government and other competitive
um solicitors, people putting out jobs
to give us an advantage to bid on that
work. So I've sat here before you and
talked about small business set aside
being a problem. That's actually a
benefit now. So I mean we get the small
bit business jobs. The fairweather
that's down there was one of them. Um
the Kestrel is not a small business, but
the hub zone jobs, those also add that
additional layer of those who are not in
a hub zone cannot bid on them. So,
>> um, it adds a additional insurance to be
» um, it adds a additional insurance to be
able to compete in those areas.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Uh, thank you, Mr. Willer, for your
» Uh, thank you, Mr. Willer, for your
presentation. Uh, first I want to say I
know you said it's a temporary fix, but
I'm really impressed that you got that
slab issue addressed because I know when
we had that meeting at that very civic
center, that was one of the topics of
discussion. It didn't sound like an easy
solution. I know there's a larger fix
that needs to be made over time, but I'm
really glad you have that working now.
Uh, in the interval between Bigger's
operation and Jags, you said you were
down to eight people working on site.
And I'm just curious, and you may not
have the specific numbers, and that's
fine, but I know there were a lot of
employees that were part of the previous
operation who were concerned about their
jobs, their future, etc. And I wondered,
you might be able to speak to what
percentage of those individuals you're
able to rehire or retain.
>> So far, I've gotten about 68% of them
» So far, I've gotten about 68% of them
back.
>> That's a pretty great specific number.
» That's a pretty great specific number.
Okay. Thank you. That's
>> I didn't add it to the slide, I ran out
» I didn't add it to the slide, I ran out
of room, but yeah.
>> Yeah. [laughter] Okay.
» Yeah. [laughter] Okay.
>> It was originally I as it was estimated
» It was originally I as it was estimated
80 with a lick of the thumb in the wind,
but when I actually got a couple months
in for overall statistics, it was
approximately 68%. And that's not
because of any any
issue. We offered them all jobs back per
se. Uh it's just or you know, it's
people found other employment and other
other avenues of their own passion,
whatever that may be. Sure. They're
>> not worth that many hours and work.
» not worth that many hours and work.
>> All right. Anybody else? Thank you.
» All right. Anybody else? Thank you.
>> All right. Thank you guys for your time
» All right. Thank you guys for your time
and have a good evening.
» That brings us to consent.
I have a motion.
>> Move to consent.
» Move to consent.
>> Second.
» Second.
>> It has been moved and seconded.
» It has been moved and seconded.
Um
clerk, would you read the item? Approval
of minutes, special budget meetings of
December 8th, December 11th, December
15th of 2025, and a special meeting of
December 13, 2025, and the regular
meeting of December 18th, 2025, purchase
of Palo Alto Network Security Appliances
with 5 years of support, Compunet, Inc.,
Procurement of Microsoft Office 365
subscription licenses and support
services Microsoft Corporation via SVR
Compunet Inc. billing software and
annual maintenance support comproc
uh utility equipment and uplifting LLC.
A council review of liquor license
renewal application endorsement inside
passage brewing company DVA Boden Street
Brewing Company.
>> There were some items that there was
» There were some items that there was
questions on uh item B Lacy the purchase
of the Palato network security.
>> Sure your your honor and members of the
» Sure your your honor and members of the
council. This is one of the capital
improvement project items that the
information technology movement put in
their uh capital improvement program for
2026. This is one of the items per a
budget update that I recommended um
remain funded and that I wanted I had
directed the IT director to move forward
with in 2026. Um what this particular
project is um what the council's
authorizing is year three of a five-year
contract agreement for these services.
This is essentially our um it's our our
firewall. It's our security system for
our network. Everybody within the city
utilizes this particular um piece of of
software and infrastructure. If we were
not to renew this license, um, as I
explained earlier, this would have
immediate and devastating consequences
for the city. Um, we would essentially
come to a screeching halt in a number of
departments. Um, again, this is a 5-year
agreement. So, all that the council is
authorizing is the purchase price, um,
which was agreed to upfront. Um, but
because of its value, it needs to come
to the city council, but we have entered
into a five-year agreement, and so to
not continue with that would be a breach
of that contract. But again, I can't
stress enough the importance of this
particular project um to the operability
of the city going forward.
>> Happy to answer any questions in the IT
» Happy to answer any questions in the IT
here as well.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> U through the mayor. Uh is this project
» U through the mayor. Uh is this project
doesn't the telecom division have
something similar? I mean what my
concern is at the budget meetings we
said that let's get an analysis of what
is being duplicated what can be done
between the two departments.
>> So council member Vatani at the time
» So council member Vatani at the time
that this particular software was
purchased we consulted the
telecommunications division and they
were not able to provide this service.
Yes they do have their own software
services in place. Um but again right
now start of the year we are obligated
to move forward with um with this
contractual agreement. Um the analysis
that the council had asked for is going
to take some time. Um we don't have the
time right now to not continue with this
agreement again without having
consequences for the operability of the
city. We can continue having discussions
with telecommunications on if what they
have in the future might work well for
the city. Um, but again, I'd have to
look at that five-year agreement that we
agreed to um for the Pelo Alto security
appliance system um and see what
consequences there may be if we were to
pull out of that contract prematurely.
>> Thank you,
» Thank you,
>> Abby.
» Abby.
>> Thank you for those comments. Those are
» Thank you for those comments. Those are
obviously my that comments as well. Uh
my only thing is I I do want even though
we go forward with this purchase, I
don't want it to drop off until January
next year, but I would really like us to
start now. You said year
>> three of five.
» three of five.
>> So we have technically three
» So we have technically three
>> two more approvals, but we should start
» two more approvals, but we should start
looking now at what options do we have
internally for this because as I know
it's not you turn off this switch and
start this switch on something of this
nature. it is a progressive
uh switchover to make maintain security.
So if it's you know if there is
something internally that does meet the
criteria and save money I want to start
getting the move on that now so that we
have a proper handover to make sure that
the it is secure that's the whole point
of the system so just because this goes
forward I still wanted to include it in
the process doesn't see
>> thank you
» thank you
there was also questions on item C Jay
>> did you have a for that. I just wanted
» did you have a for that. I just wanted
to explain.
>> I mean, just need explanation so people
» I mean, just need explanation so people
know what's going on.
>> This is the office uh 365 subscription
» This is the office uh 365 subscription
license support services.
>> Yep. So, um Council Member Matani, um
» Yep. So, um Council Member Matani, um
the city has for quite some time been a
Microsoft products user. I think in 2024
is when we migrated to a subscription
service um rather than an annual um
don't know what you would necessarily
term it you might have to help me out
here um but we we switched over from um
essentially purchasing that software and
having it physically installed in the
city to doing a cloud-based subscription
service. Um again this is something this
is a um for for cities our size and for
a lot of businesses having Microsoft
Office 365 is essential for all manner
of of operations within uh government.
We use it for email. We use it for um
word processing. We use it for Excel
spreadsheets. We use it for Microsoft
Teams. Um we use it for a whole host of
different services that it offers. Um,
so again, when we made this we made this
uh this leap over to a subscription uh
purchase rather than having it kind of
part installed, we still have a cost
associated with it no matter what. Um,
it's just how we're delivering the
product. Brock, do you want to add any
more detail to that?
>> Um, we did an analysis uh during the
» Um, we did an analysis uh during the
initial discussions of moving to a
subscription service uh kind of pros and
cons. Um if you if you look at it, it's
about a three-year break even uh for
updating your software inhouse versus
going subscription. Um if we drag it out
longer for the non-subscription
licensing, we have to go, you know, we
start saving money, but we get far
farther behind and it's a larger jump
for staff to get up to date. Um the
subscription service also gave us uh
quite a few additional features that we
didn't have. multifactor authentication
was the big one that brought us into
compliance having that MFA on your phone
before you could hook up to your email
account. Um that just prevents the bad
guys from getting into the accounts with
just a username and a password. Um that
was huge. We couldn't do it on premise.
We had to go to a hybrid solution. Um
there's definitely a cost associated
with it. Uh we try to keep our license
counts as low as possible but um again
it was if we're upgrading our on-remise
software every 3 years it's almost a
dead even match for what it would cost
us and that's what we have been doing.
Um it's a big number but it's uh
essential for operations for every
department.
>> Follow up.
» Follow up.
>> Yes. So I mean getting it done in-house
» Yes. So I mean getting it done in-house
or collaborating with KPU you said in
the long run it might be a saving but
right now it is not.
>> This is correct.
» This is correct.
>> This is not a thing that you would
» This is not a thing that you would
collaborate with KPU. They pay the
subscription price for their Office 365
the same as us. Um there's there's no
savings except you take the I guess the
ownership of the management of that
software away from it. Um it means we
have to call somebody else when we need
to do something and wait for them to
take care of it. Um we have the staff
inhouse trained. We did our own
migration to the platform. Um it's not
really an in-house or not in-house
thing. Um that goes for a lot of things
we do in IT. I mean we
you know we're we're proposing these
things that we manage and take care of.
Um if we can do it in the IT department
we do. We don't hire outside contractors
to manage things for us. This is a
subscription license that would cost the
same price for us to get it as it would
KU to get it and they would have to
resell it to us. So they'd have to
actually tack on something to make a
profit.
[clears throat]
>> Yes. Just to follow up. So if you
» Yes. Just to follow up. So if you
combine both, wouldn't the subscription
be cheaper?
>> Not necessarily. Um we are using a
» Not necessarily. Um we are using a
government contract pricing. So we've
gone from the street price down to a
much lower negotiated price the state
got. Um keep you might actually save
some money going with us. Um they might
not. I don't know exactly what pricing
they have negotiated with their vendor.
They go through a different vendor and
management for that. I don't know if you
have specifics, Matt, for that.
>> I don't have
» I don't have
>> Okay. Um but yeah, we we found the
» Okay. Um but yeah, we we found the
cheapest price we could which is
government state of Alaska government
contract. So
>> yeah, I'm just concerned about duplicity
» yeah, I'm just concerned about duplicity
between the two departments.
>> I agree. I don't think there's
» I agree. I don't think there's
duplication happening here. We just use
similar services that have pricing. If
we combined them, it would be about the
same cost. It it either way um they have
different internal requirements for
their 0365 deployment for kptel us than
we do for catch.gov. Um we've been
working with them for the last couple of
years to create a protomain trust with
those two units so that we don't have to
have duplic duplicate accounts on either
side because one thing they did when
they moved to their own uh email system
it was originally Gmail and then they
moved 0365 uh slightly after we did um
because Gmail was there was some pricing
changes there um they wanted to have
their own email system for their own
keeput [clears throat] less
uh customer base I guess is what it was
and um yeah we're trying to combine them
so that we don't have to give catch.gov
domains to their users but we trust
their accounts they can trust ours and
kind of share those resources so we're
working very cooperatively trying to
make that happen.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Then [clears throat] we have item D and
» Then [clears throat] we have item D and
building software maintenance support.
That's a end of thing, Lacy.
>> Yes, this is an annual um expenditure
» Yes, this is an annual um expenditure
for the KP telecommunications division
for our billing software system. This is
just the annual maintenance and support
um for comoft which um is proprietary
system. So um we need to go with them to
provide that annual maintenance and
support service um to ensure that the
software um which again we use for for
billing continues to work and is
receiving the proper upgrades that it
needs.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Thank you. Bring us to item E
» Thank you. Bring us to item E
procurement and protecting the fire
department.
Do you have questions? Yeah, my question
is on the second portion the 43,000
and one uh it is this command vehicle a
second uh used vehicle or is this brand
new and why do we need that 43,000 if we
can get explanation from the fire chief
on that.
>> So I'll I'll start um Matani. So um the
» So I'll I'll start um Matani. So um the
this is a new vehicle. It's replacing a
vehicle that we currently have in the
fleet. So it's um it's a replacement.
It's not adding to the total number of
vehicles that we have. Um the additional
the 43,000 is for upfitting costs for
the vehicle. So while there's a vehicle
price that's just for a stock vehicle in
order to just as we do for a lot of
specialized vehicles, be it for fire or
police or other vehicles. Um what we
take off the assembly line is not
entirely what we need for operation. So,
um, the quote that is included with this
agenda item includes all of the
upfitting costs to upfit the vehicle to
be a fully functional command vehicle
for for the chief and the fire
department. Um, but Rick, do you want to
talk more about anything specific to
those up?
>> Any further questions?
» Any further questions?
>> No.
» No.
>> Okay. Thank you.
» Okay. Thank you.
>> Anybody have any questions?
» Anybody have any questions?
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
So with that, we have a motion on the
floor for the consent. Any
[clears throat] other questions?
Hearing seeing none, we please call the
role.
>> Bradberry,
» Bradberry,
>> no.
» no.
>> Gage,
» Gage,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Zingy,
» Zingy,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Matani,
» Matani,
>> no.
» no.
>> Gas,
» Gas,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Finigan,
» Finigan,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> That passes 42.
» That passes 42.
>> Thank you. Bring this. There are no
» Thank you. Bring this. There are no
unfinished minutes. turning to new
business item B 2026 funding agreement
between the city of Ketchan and Ketchan
Visitor Bureau Inc. Do I have a motion
please? [clears throat]
Your honor move the city council
authorize the 2026 funding agreement
between the city of Ketchan and the
Ketchan Visitors Bureau Inc. at a cost
not to exceed 30
sorry my thing cut off on my computer
$36,000
authorizing funding in the amounts of
101,100,450
and 1 104550
respectively from the civic center
tourism management and port department's
2026 other contractual services account
number 635 5.14 and direct the acting
city manager to execute the agreement
behalf of the city council.
>> Second move second. Abby, anything?
» No, I was just [laughter]
making the motion.
>> Any other comment?
» Any other comment?
>> I guess I'll throw something out there.
» I guess I'll throw something out there.
Um, and not for to to change this today,
but something to be thinking about. Um,
I'm wondering if there's a way that we
could move our designated funding for
wayfinding signage
to um the KBB to and give them like a
scope of work for that. Um, I just know
they move at a lot faster pace than we
do and they also work alongside Historic
Catch Can and and a little they have
they're just working a lot more project
of advertisement marketing and they
could possibly create more of a
consistent
signage way find wayf finding signage
across the community. So, um, again, not
for today, but just something to think
about as we go through just to start
getting these projects. That's been on
the list for a while. The burrow is
wanting to help with that as well. And
so, I think, um, might be a great
opportunity for them to kind of lead
that obviously with the scope of work
from the city on what we want and they
can work alongside historic catch and
make sure we're
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Anybody else? [snorts] Hearing seeing
» Anybody else? [snorts] Hearing seeing
none, would you please call the RO?
>> Gage.
» Gage.
Yes,
>> Zingi.
» Zingi.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Matani.
» Matani.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Gas.
» Gas.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Finigan.
» Finigan.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Bradbury.
» Bradbury.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Thank you. Brings us to item C. Use of
» Thank you. Brings us to item C. Use of
CPV funds for public restroom in the
downtown catch can joint cooperative
relations committee recommendations. Do
I have a motion? Your honor, pursuant to
action taken at this December 19th, 2025
joint cooperative relations committee
meeting, I move the city council direct
staff to develop cost estimates for the
proposed public restroom location number
224 Creek Street and location number 3,
217 Steedman Street for presentation to
the joint cooperative relations
committee at its February 27th, 2026
meeting.
>> Is there a second?
» Is there a second?
second.
>> It has been new second. Riley, you have
» It has been new second. Riley, you have
anything to add?
>> Oh, I don't know if we're going to dive
» Oh, I don't know if we're going to dive
into this again or not, but I think uh
this is something we've all been
wrestling with for quite some time. As
I've said, I think we as the council to
have a a fair bit of responsibility to
take for past,
you know, lack of action for whatever
the reason, cost, location, and as we've
heard tonight, there's never a perfect
solution. You're never going to find
100% of the people happy with a location
or an idea. But uh I think we have been
hearing a pretty unanimous
uh message from the public who's
involved with tourism and with downtown
that we need to do something. So it's
going through the process. It's gone to
the cooperative relations. It's going to
the different departments and things and
professionals and uh as was said by some
people. I mean, I certainly encourage
members of the public if they have ideas
to engage and submit, but at this time,
I know how slow things move and I think
it is prudent to at least continue the
process and push it to that meeting and
see what the the committee thinks on it.
So, um, I definitely hear everybody's
concerns and adjacent property owners,
but at the same time, I do think it's
prudent to continue moving forward
because I worry if we don't, multiple
more years are going to go by and
nothing's going to happen and we're
going to have more people who need a
bathroom and we'll be stuck right where
we are now because it's been quite a
while we've been talking about
bathrooms. So, that's my take on it.
We also uh have had uh comments tonight
asking that we probably hold some kind
of a public meeting in regards to other
sites uh an overall plan for the
downtown area etc etc and I know we've
talked about a tourism uh committee that
can help within those processes.
Um so I think that uh when do we have
our next cooperative relation?
>> It's January 30th actually. January soon
» It's January 30th actually. January soon
>> and it'll be here at
» and it'll be here at
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> So this memo is incorrect. It's not the
» So this memo is incorrect. It's not the
27th.
>> Well, it we do have one Jan at the end
» Well, it we do have one Jan at the end
of January.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> So, your honor and members of the
» So, your honor and members of the
council, so the next cooperative
relations committee meeting will be
January 30th. Because of the timing of
the last meeting and each body's ability
to have a discussion about this topic
and give direction to staff, it wasn't
it wasn't clear that we would be able to
talk about this particular topic at the
January 30th meeting. We'll provide an
update, but what was requested of staff
was to develop a cost estimate. That's a
pretty short turnaround time. So more
than likely a more robust discussion
will take place by the cooperative
relations committee meeting in February.
There was discussion about it being on
the 27th. This is my fault for putting
it in the the motion because it hasn't
been set yet. We'll first have a
discussion on January 30th.
>> Abby,
» Abby,
>> to follow up on that, um we asked for
» to follow up on that, um we asked for
updates to be brought back. If a cost
analysis could be a rough cost analysis
could be completed by that meeting, then
we could talk more in depth of is it
realistic or not before spending more
time in February working out the details
between both both governments to bring
back to the prospective bodies. So just
want to clarify on that one.
>> Thank you. Um and what we're really
» Thank you. Um and what we're really
asking here that we can use uh CPV
monies to to go through that process and
I think that's fine. Um, I just want to
make sure that some place staff have the
ability to put together a public meeting
uh in regards to through the tourism
department in regards to um other sites
and other issues and mobile bathrooms
etc in the downtown area and have a
larger discussion about that. Ken Lee
then Riley
>> I don't think there was a second.
» I don't think there was a second.
>> Yes,
» Yes,
I'm sorry. I just wanted to clarify.
>> I do when I looked at this the I did
» I do when I looked at this the I did
have I see I see that I thought the spot
by the New York was problematic myself.
Um I think having a meeting with the
people in the area would be good. Um,
honestly, I think
what I see when I I mean I and I haven't
been down in a while, but I think the
something within the near the dollar's
house would be more
um but I also see the option of
something further down um to get people
moving into the Salvation Army. Um, but
I also I think I know that we move slow,
but at the same time I also think we do
need to get it right. Um, because of the
way that the way the flow is there. It's
just
um, Creek Street One, I can see that
being problematic because it has stairs.
So, people who can't do stairs, you put
an ADA bathroom up there, it's
completely useless to anyone in there
that has mobility issues. Um,
the number two, I see that actually
being
a good option except you have the museum
there. So, I think they're just spacing
them out so they're so further down the
creek. But I really I see it being very
problematic sticking it between the New
Yorker themselves. So
>> right
» right
>> just to clarify on what we were talking
» just to clarify on what we were talking
about a minute ago. So this motion says
that this cost estimates will be brought
back for presentation to the cooperative
relations committee on in February
whatever it is 27th or 30th. Just to be
clear because I just heard quite a few
different ideas bounced around. That's
what we're voting on.
>> We're voting on those direct staff to
» We're voting on those direct staff to
bring those estimates prepared for the
February meeting. Right.
>> And we can do meetings in between, but
» And we can do meetings in between, but
still that's what we want to do if we
process.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Anybody else want to talk to them?
» Anybody else want to talk to them?
>> I'm just very brief. Uh I mean obviously
» I'm just very brief. Uh I mean obviously
the need is clear and Mr. G made a good
point. We've hashed a lot of this stuff
out already. I'm certainly fine with
getting a cost estimate. I do think the
idea of a public hearing is a very good
one. Uh I I do want to make note of the
fact though that it's very seldom that
we hear members of the community ask us
to slow down on anything, reconsider
something. Usually it's very much the
opposite. Why did these things take so
long? Here, uh we've heard several
voices ask us just to take our time and
make this the right approach.
Personally, uh I'm I'm still in favor of
a mobile unit just for the flexibility
that provides. uh especially if having a
mobile unit with some flexibility
buys us the time that we need to
determine how best to proceed with a
permanent structure. So I'll support
this motion because I do want to see the
cost estimates and an evaluation of
those sites. U but I do want to make
note of the fact that we've had several
members of the community express both in
person and in correspondence email. I'm
sure some of you have gotten phone calls
as I have. Um, just to make sure that
we, as was mentioned, do this, right?
>> Yeah. Abby,
» Yeah. Abby,
>> I do want to just make clarification
» I do want to just make clarification
notes. Um, at the And then I have
something prepared to talk to you guys
about. Um, the 24 Creek Street was the
or 26
that location by Dolly's house. Um,
that's really the property that the
cooperative relation had focused on. The
reason we brought in Steman lot was a
temporary
option to help us close the gap because
we weren't going to be able to build
something in the next
>> I can't hear you
» I can't hear you
>> in the next three to four um months on
» in the next three to four um months on
on that piece of property. Um so Steman
they when we talked amongst the count uh
the two or community or councils
assemblies
it was more of Steman being used as a
temporary solution to get it up and
moving something now while we build
long-term at a potential location on
Creek Street. So that was the
clarification of what why there is two
pieces of property on on that. Um, but I
then prepared something that I would
like to talk about. I gave some examples
to the council members here as well. Um,
first off, I strongly support continuing
moving forward with the restroom project
near 26 Creek Street in cooperation with
Burrow and historic catch can. And this
is a solid long-term solution and would
provide much neededed restroom access at
one end of our busiest and most visited
attraction. However, this project alone
will not fully address the restroom
demand on Creek Street or in downtown.
Creek Street experiences heavy uh
concentrated food traffic. Relying on a
single restroom location will continue
to create congestions, long lines, and
accessibility challenges, especially
during peak visitor hours. For that
reason, I encourage the city to explore
additional restroom options at the
opposite end of Creek Street, such as
restoring property as number two or
number three Creek Street to house uh
restrooms to provide a balance, improve
visitor [clears throat] flow,
significantly enhancing the overall
experience for both residents and
visitors. This also could maybe help uh
accelerate the timeline of getting a
restroom open on Creek Street in the
near future while also parallel planning
phase implementation of other projects
also more projects on a smaller scale uh
or more bathrooms on a smaller scale. Uh
looking beyond Creek is clear that
Katchchan needs a comprehensive master
plan for public restrooms throughout the
community with volume volume of guests.
We welcome each year. Adequate and
strategically located restroom
facilities are essential infrastructure,
not a luxury. Proper planning will
reduce strain on any one location and
improve sanitation, accessibility, and
public perception of our downtown. In
the short term, I also recommend the
council move forward considering a
container restroom solution to place on
the potential Steman property or other
identified properties. Installing a
modern container restroom in this
location in any location would help meet
the immediate need of the harbor and
also relieve pressure on surrounding
facilities for our visitors and
residents. Container restrooms are
durable, efficient, can be implemented
far more quickly than traditional
constructions and is movable. I've
attached several replacement concepts
for the containers uh from Custom
Container Living, a US-based company in
Missouri that works with municipalities
across the country to deliver restrooms
and housing solutions. These options
demonstrate how we can address immediate
needs while long-term projections move
forward.
I also put on a base pricing. I know
we've heard a lot of 100,000, 150,000.
As you can see, these are bottles you
can buy off the floor today. Not like if
you want them to be fancy, you can
pretty much pick whatever you want. But
these are base model. These are the
prices we're looking at, which is much
less than what we've been presented.
These can have tanks built in them. They
could be directly plumbed. Um, they come
with everything. They're plugandplay. We
would just have our staff needing to
connect to the power, water, and uh
lines. There's various sizes, different
footprints. There's 13footers to maybe
fit in a smaller. There are single
stalls which also um according to other
studies and other m municipalities
help deter the congregation and area in
weight rooms outside the bathrooms or
outside the stalls. kind of eliminating
that potential risk of somebody going in
there. Um so kind of helps with that
safety um and and things like that. This
is a reputable company. Um you can even
change the facade on the outside if we
wanted to make it cedar or make it log
cabin or make it look like one of the
buildings on Creek Street or in that
area. Uh it's completely customizable. I
mean, we completely decked out a
40footer down to like the grout inside
and it was still less than $90,000. And
I mean, it was the best of the best and
one of the best. Um, so it's very
reasonable and that 90,000 gets it here
to catch can. So, I just want these
options to really be brought forward on
other properties because I think this is
truly the solution to solve now. They
can move anywhere. If we decide one spot
doesn't work or if somebody says, "Hey,
this spot might work," they can be
picked up and moved to a new location
and installed.
» Yes.
>> Uh thank you for giving us that, Abby. I
» Uh thank you for giving us that, Abby. I
hope that it's uh it's really an
interesting thing to look at and
something we should pursue. I did have a
question though. I'm missing something.
Uh, and I appreciate the explanation on
the
what was discussed at the cooperative
relations in regards to more of a
temporary on the Steman with the plan
being I actually like that plan a lot,
but I'm for some reason I'm not
understanding why we would be losing and
I think I'm envisioning the right
property. Could someone explain to me
why we're going to be losing the parking
places? To me, it seems like if we were
to put uh like a temporary conx or
something on that the property that I'm
thinking of, I don't understand why we'd
have to lose parking there. Could
someone clarify that for me?
>> Yes, Lacy.
» Yes, Lacy.
>> Um your honor and council member Gas. Um
» Um your honor and council member Gas. Um
so, this is a fairly narrow lot with um
facilities on buildings on either side
of it. Um and the parking as you come in
is sort of angled. Um, and to exit you
have to you have a very small car. You
might be able to turn around within the
lot and enter the street headon. Most
people end up backing out of that lot.
If you were to put a restroom, even a
temporary one, in there, I don't believe
you'd even be able to pull cars in
there. It would completely eliminate the
functionality of parking in that
particular lot. It would not be safe
either. Even if you could fit, I
wouldn't want a restroom right in the
back of a parking lot um where people
are coming and going. I think that would
prevent a huge safety issue.
>> Is that a parking lot we manage or just
» Is that a parking lot we manage or just
>> It's a parking lot that we manage and
» It's a parking lot that we manage and
it's our lot. So, it's a city-owned
parcel. Um, and just to clarify for the
council and um anyone interested in this
particular topic, when the bureau
requested to have a meeting on this
topic, it was specific to installing
restrooms on Creek Street because there
wasn't a lot of time or detail. Um, what
what I directed city staff to do was to
look at parcels that the city owns in
that area. There's obviously other
options out there. There's a lot of
great ideas, but the lowhanging fruit
and the lowest cost was to look at
parcels that the city already owns that
are unoccupied. So, that's what we were
looking at in the area. We were also
trying to find um where the need was
because yes, we have the Tongas
Historical Museums in the major public
restroom. We have lose loot. Where are
there gaps? So that's where we were
trying to locate parcels as well. Um so
I'm very interested to hear um what what
the Reeves have to say in other
locations. Happy to have public
meetings, but I can't stress enough that
what what staff developed just to have
something to talk about was very
preliminary and very conceptual in
nature. It's not this is what we're
doing. It was just to get the
conversation going between the two
bodies.
>> So with that, I think we certainly
» So with that, I think we certainly
discussed it. We got a motion on the
floor.
Please call the RO.
>> Can I clarify something? Yeah. So, with
» Can I clarify something? Yeah. So, with
this motion, um, if it passes,
this body here in terms of bathrooms in
general, are we halting and just saying
just go off on these two or are we going
to continue the movement on our side to
find overall solutions or a temporary
solution to I think forward.
>> Okay. So, I don't need to amend this to
» Okay. So, I don't need to amend this to
say continue. No.
These are just two that were identified
through cooperative relation. We still
have bigger issues.
>> I just wanted to make sure this wasn't
» I just wanted to make sure this wasn't
going to
>> appreciate that.
» appreciate that.
>> You please call the
» You please call the
>> Zingi.
» Zingi.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Matani.
» Matani.
>> Bash.
» Bash.
>> Gas.
» Gas.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Finnegan.
» Finnegan.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Redberry.
» Redberry.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Gage.
» Gage.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> M.
» Thanks. That passes your
>> Thank you. Brings us to item E, agenda
» Thank you. Brings us to item E, agenda
item requests ordinance for submitting
budget documents to the city council,
Bradbury and Zingi. Do I have a motion?
>> I move the city council direct acting
» I move the city council direct acting
city manager to take such action as
deemed to approve the guardian
establishing with the proposed budget
submitted [clears throat] to the city
council.
>> Is there a second?
» Is there a second?
>> Second.
» Second.
>> It's been moved and seconded. What do we
» It's been moved and seconded. What do we
have here, Amy? Uh so just brief um
brief comments real quick. Uh I also
want to just preference I'm open to any
suggestion but the way things I just
I would like to highlight the value of
receiving the proposed budget well in
advance of the first budget session. I
understand that this year we implemented
a new program and that the learning
curve associated with that change
contributed to some delay. I appreciate
the effort staff has put into adapting
to the new system and moving the process
forward. Having adequate time to review
review the budget allows council members
to fully understand the information
presented. Ask thoughtful questions.
Engage in meaningful discussion. This
preparation supports our shared goal of
developing a balanced and responsible
budget that reflects the priorities of
the citizens who elect us. It's also
important to recognize that many council
council members balance their council
responsibilities with full-time jobs,
family commitments, and other
obligations. Additional review time
helps ensure that everyone has a fair
and reasonable opportunity to carefully
read the budget and come prepared with
informed questions and options. I also
understand that changes may come down
the line during the budget meetings as
we just saw as needed and that the
budget is an involving document. Having
more time though to review the initial
proposal gives us a stronger foundation
to thoughtfully evaluate and respond to
the changes when they do arise. Early
access to the budget provides an
opportunity to work collaboratively with
staff ahead of time to clarify details,
meet with them, learn the systems, and
gather additional information. This
helps streamlines the budget sessions,
reducing last minute questions, and for
me, keeping discussions focused and
productive. Allowing sufficient review
time benefits everyone involved and
improves efficiency, supports staff by
addressing questions proactively, and
enables council members to make
thoughtful and wellinformed decisions.
It also provides u transparency,
collaboration, and confidence in the
budget process, ultimately helping us
serve our community more effectively.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Yes, I agree with this motion and I'll
» Yes, I agree with this motion and I'll
support this motion. As you know and we
know this turn turn around when we were
presented the budget, it was way
different from years past. It was more
complicated in referring from one page
to the other from the front to the back.
So if we are presented with a budget
earlier, it'll be easier for us to work
through the budget.
Judy,
>> um, you know, I agree to add my aim to
» um, you know, I agree to add my aim to
this because I think that anytime we
need to discuss something, everybody
should have the right to do it. I don't
think there was any, and I'm pretty sure
you're not suggesting that there was any
maliciousness in terms of us not getting
this on time. There was a lot of things
that came into play and that is why we
got it late. In years gone by, we've
received our budget on time. Um, I think
that, you know, if you want to change
the policy, okay, but I don't see the
need to to change and write an ordinance
right now. I just don't. I think that
everybody works really hard, especially
our staff to bring us this. Um, yeah,
there was a lot. I mean, it's a new
software program. It it took us all, you
know, a lot of time to figure it out.
Um, I'm sure it took the staff equally
that amount of time. So, I think that,
you know, if you want to change the
policy
um this year, okay, and then see how
that works for next year and not, you
know, not go in and and I don't think an
ordinance is necessary, but that's just
me.
>> Lacy,
» Riley had a question.
>> Oh, go ahead. Just a comment.
» Oh, go ahead. Just a comment.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Go ahead. Uh, I guess [laughter]
» Go ahead. Uh, I guess [laughter]
I would kind of agree with Judy in
general, but uh,
not to get into any specifics, but we've
kind of been on an ordinance train
lately, and I think it's only fair that
if certain members who maybe weren't on
that train before want to do ordinances,
we've kind of set the precedent. So,
I'll support it.
>> Please, go ahead, Abby. I do agree with
» Please, go ahead, Abby. I do agree with
the policy changing the policy in first
instead of an ordinance. That's why I
stated at the beginning I'm open to
changes. I just
what staff and others may deem adequate
time to review thousands of pages um
maybe isn't for everyone at the table.
And so I just if it's a policy maybe
just adding a little bit of time knowing
no matter what it's always it always
change look at I mean look at it
throughout the process just being able
to get the base
info just of like just starting to look
through the numbers earlier than later
and then as changes come that's that's
all I'm trying to get however the best
way is but I just I I personally I'm
hopefully sitting here for another two
years I need it sooner.
to start.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Thank you, honor. Yeah, I'm I'm eager to
» Thank you, honor. Yeah, I'm I'm eager to
get the information as quickly as
possible so that as much time can be
spent as possible either asking
questions or comparing numbers or
looking at previous budgets. Um I I did
um I do like the uh suggestion that was
profered by staff with regard to kind of
a compromise instead of having a 21-day
or fix however it was worded. um that
that deadline uh rather than a 21-day
date 21 days before the first budget
hearing uh having it um I can't find it
now. Uh I think it was by the time of
the first November meeting. Was that was
that what was suggested in the
memorandum? And I what I'm what I'm I'm
eager to get the information as quickly
as possible, but I don't want to do is
put additional staff uh additional
pressure on the staff to complete this
enormously complex document when they're
already up against a pretty significant
deadline.
Lacy.
>> Um, your honor, members of the council.
» Um, your honor, members of the council.
So, um, no, I I fully concur that this
that the city council needs as much time
as possible to process the budget. I
recognize that it is a weighty and
complex document. Um, but as council
member Zangi said, historically staff
has met um a totally arbitrary deadline,
just one that I think we put in
practice, which is usually to get it to
the council by that first meeting in
November. this year for all the reasons
that we've discussed that wasn't
possible. Um I do want to add though um
which I included in my my memo that we
work this year and every year been
compliant with the city charter which is
the one thing that exists currently
which speaks to the timing that the
council must receive that budget for its
deliberative purposes. Um so that
specifies five weeks prior to the start
of the next fiscal year. So so we met
that. I get that that's not enough time
but we met that. Um so [clears throat]
as as council member Finnean had just uh
discussed my recommendation rather than
to create an ordinance um that specifies
a number of days which is highly
variable based on when the council wants
to start its budget process um just to
pick again that first regular meeting in
November which historically is when we
provided the budget which I think again
has provided adequate time for council
review in previous years. Um, but that
could be advanced. That's why we're
having the discussion. But it seemed
that putting in policy rather than
ordinance might be the best way to
start.
>> Michelle, do you have anything to offer?
» Michelle, do you have anything to offer?
[laughter]
» Your honor, thank you for the
opportunity to comment. Um, I I think
that
there there are things that maybe the
council doesn't realize. There are a lot
of hours that are put into but every
department puts into providing a budget
to the council and then and and yes this
year and even last year. Last year we
were dealing with a landslide that
happened right before the c the each
department had to submit their budget.
So there was that and then the
engineering department which was a
significant share of every department
that goes to our engineering department
to help with those capital projects
estimates. Um
they were weeks behind and then each
department then was weeks behind. So
it's it was [laughter]
there are significant
issues and I will remind the council we
brought you a capital project budget in
July. The only thing that was different
we gave you an agenda item that said
here's what changed from July to the
final budget. And
so then it was just the operating budget
that was new in November. And yes, it
was it was later than usual, but it
shouldn't have been totally foreign
because we had given you the capital
project budget. So um that in addition
to um we for personnel, it wasn't just
one little thing. it has to be put into
this from here to here. It was every
collective bargaining agreement, every
employee that had to be added. Um, all
the little nuances trying to make sure
that we're budgeting appropriately for
each staff, what those wages should be.
Are there other there additional factors
for each person, their overtime, their
their um what they what kind of pay they
get, any differentials? Um, so there's
health insurance, there's employees that
are 50/50. I mean, and that's just a tip
of the iceberg just for personnel. Then
there's every department and making sure
that all of the budgets from the 2024
budget got put in there. It was was not
a small task. And so my point is, yes,
our goal is to get you that budget as
soon as possible. It's usually the first
week, the first meeting in November. And
that is always our goal. We don't want
you to not have a document to review. We
want to give that to you. So it it is
our full intention to make sure that
next year it's done quicker and faster.
And we we fully think that that will
happen with this budgeting software. We
think that that can happen. Um, so,
um, to put something a to me a a policy
in place
that doesn't take into consideration the
time that it takes to
to perform and and make sure that you
have a document. You can tell me that I
need to have this to you earlier. What's
going to end up happening?
What I see, what I envision is I'm gonna
get multiple requests and I'm gonna have
to bring you I don't know how many how
many updates do we have this year? How
many more updates? Because staff still
has to put that together that to give to
us to give to you and if anything
changes from the date we give it to you,
it's a budget update. So, just keep that
in mind that um that even though we can
pro we could provide it to you earlier
that those estimates aren't going to be
as good possibly and then we're going to
have more revisions to the budget
document. So,
>> there's a balance, right? You're going
» there's a balance, right? You're going
to give and take and and we can give it
to you earlier. It just might not be as
good. And if you don't like some of the
estimates that are provided right now,
then it's going to be not
there's going to be more fluidity in
those numbers and maybe not as accurate.
So
I think I have said enough. [laughter]
>> I'm not here to get in an argument or
» I'm not here to get in an argument or
anything. Uh I'm here for the citizens.
That's who put me here. I'm that's my
ultimate person that I answer to.
>> On average, I went back for the last 10
» On average, I went back for the last 10
years. We've gotten the budget
at the shortest time was 17 days before
the first budget meeting except for this
year. I'm only asking for three to four
more days. That's literally I I'm
literally only asking for a few more
days that we could get the budget
earlier. I'm not asking for weeks and
weeks and weeks. just a few more days,
maybe we could come to an agreement of,
you know, policy is by November 1st or
the first
business day, first business day of
November because if it falls on a
Saturday, that's not fair. Um, but we
could do something of that nature. I'm
just on average it's been 17. I'm only
asking for a few more extra days to
allow us to make sure we're I'm not
asking for time. So,
» you know, I think that if we set a
deadline of the first meeting in
November
as as what we're looking for in policy
um and then if we get it earlier, more
better for us, right? And I think that
staff understands that uh from the
conversations we're having here right
now. That's
>> I just want to take note that would make
» I just want to take note that would make
it 12 days.
So, only 12 days for review. If you look
at if you always do the first meeting,
it would time that you get the budget's
going to fluctuate.
>> We normally do it. No,
» We normally do it. No,
>> it moves. So, it's not the staff doesn't
» it moves. So, it's not the staff doesn't
dictate that. The calendar does. So
that's the only reason I wanted to get a
more standard date versus the first
meeting because the first meeting could
actually be
November 7th or 8th which if the first
meeting on average is the week of
>> Thanksgiving
» Thanksgiving
>> actually the 5th but
» actually the 5th but
>> well next year I'm saying
» well next year I'm saying
>> the policy stays and so it moves
» the policy stays and so it moves
>> and I I was looking at the budget
» and I I was looking at the budget
meetings for next year and actually
we could actually do two in November the
23rd and the 30th which is the 20 is
before Thanksgiving. It's just how
December and all the days move because
the adoption date is the 17th this year
instead of the 18th. So everything kind
of moves forward a little bit.
I just
>> I'm just asking for a few more days than
» I'm just asking for a few more days than
what's normal. So
>> any other comments?
» So I have a question. Yeah.
>> Are we voting on a policy or are we
» Are we voting on a policy or are we
voting on an ordinance?
>> Just says direction. Direction
» Just says direction. Direction
direction.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> I
» I
I think um policy. I mean I I think the
manager um you know the ex the 10 days I
think that's reasonable. I I've never I
new programs are always funky and always
screw everybody up. And to be honest
with you, um,
coming in after an election, and I mean,
not that I haven't been here before, but
if I look back to when I first in 2015,
I was thrown to the wolves. And
honestly, this compared to how we used
to do it and how this hole was how it
got set up in the last few years, I find
the budget a lot easier to look through.
I get um wanting a few more extra days.
I think uh if staff can get that great,
but I prefer to have the best numbers
possible at the get, you know, from the
get-go versus having to have budget
updates.
>> You want to amend the motion then to
» You want to amend the motion then to
give direction.
Yeah.
To have the policy updated to the
>> just have the policy. Yeah.
» just have the policy. Yeah.
>> First
» First
>> first
» first
business day. the first
>> first business date.
» first business date.
>> Well, yes, because I want to make sure
» Well, yes, because I want to make sure
it's not
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Which it would then always change every
» Which it would then always change every
year,
>> right?
» right?
>> And next year it'll be the second of
» And next year it'll be the second of
November.
>> Correct. Yeah.
» And just said it in policy and not in
ordinance at this time.
>> Ordinance. Is that a Are you making a
» Ordinance. Is that a Are you making a
motion then?
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> And who would like to second?
» Any other discussion
» hearing? Seeing none, please call the
on the
>> amendment. This is amending for the
» amendment. This is amending for the
direction. It'll be the main motion
because the it was just direction. So
the director to staff will be updating
the policy to the first business day of
November.
» Matani,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Cuz absent.
» Cuz absent.
>> Zingi,
» Zingi,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Gage,
» Gage,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Bradberry,
» Bradberry,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Finigan,
» Finigan,
>> no.
» no.
>> Gas,
» Gas,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> That passes your own.
» That passes your own.
>> Thank you very much. brings us to item
» Thank you very much. brings us to item
F, ordinance number 26, 2015, increasing
water rate 8% first reading. Do I have a
motion?
>> Your honor, I move the city council
» Your honor, I move the city council
approve ordinance number 26-2015
and first reading amending certain
provisions of Pitchkan Municipal Code
Chapter 11.16 entitled water rates to
increase by 8% and providing for an
effective date.
>> We have a second.
» We have a second.
>> Second. No, it's been moved and second
» Second. No, it's been moved and second
discussion.
» Hearing seeing none, please call the
role.
>> Gas,
» Gas,
>> no.
» no.
>> Finan,
» Finan,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Gage,
» Gage,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Zingi,
» Zingi,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Matani,
» Matani,
>> no.
» no.
>> That passes your honor. Fortitude.
» That passes your honor. Fortitude.
Thank you. Brings us to item G,
ordinance number 2616, increasing the
sewer rate by 8% first reading. Do I
have a motion?
Your honor, I move the city council
approve ordinance number 26-2016
in first reading amending Kitchkan
Municipal Code section 12.09.040
entitled cost per eru by increasing
sewer rates by 8% and providing for an
effective date. Second
>> been moved and second discussion
» been moved and second discussion
hearing. Seeing none, please call the
roll.
>> Finan,
» Finan,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Bradbury,
» Bradbury,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Gage,
» Gage,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Zingy,
» Zingy,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Matani.
» Matani.
>> Oh,
» Oh,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> No.
» No.
>> That passenger 42.
» Yeah. [clears throat]
>> What's that? Can we take a a break?
» What's that? Can we take a a break?
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> All right. We're taking a break.
» Item G H
ordinance number 26 2017 amending
section 3.04 04 uh that's consumer sales
tax of the Ketchan municipal code to
provide for an additional one and a
half%
consumer sales tax during the period of
April 1st September 30th first reading.
Do I have a motion?
Your honor, I move that the city council
approve ordinance number 26-2017
in first reading increasing the seasonal
sales tax by increasing the sales tax
levy 1.5% from 5 and 12% to 6% for the
period of April 1st through September
30th by amending subsection A of KMC
section 3.04.020
entitled levy of tax subsection B of KMC
section 3.04.040
040 entitled tax added to sales price
and subsection C of KMC section 3.04.130
entitled use of proceeds of sales tax
and establishing an effective date.
>> Second move second. Any discussion? Yes.
» Second move second. Any discussion? Yes.
>> Thank you, honor. Uh
» Thank you, honor. Uh
I held my comments for this particular
one because I think it's actually
probably the most hard-hitting. Uh,
and I don't mean to ramble on, but uh,
as we go through our business at the
council,
uh, in passing expenditures and
increases and contracts,
uh, I think it's important that we
always remember that there's a price to
pay for all these things. And, um, I can
only speak for myself. There have been
almost all the general government
contracts or yeah almost all but one I
think where I found myself in a very
tough position internally weighing the
pros and the cons of uh recognizing that
increases to not just employee benefits
but you know to that and to other
expenses
um is something that is often times
deserved, warranted, needed.
But some things that kind of get or
something that I think gets lost in the
process sometimes or we lose sight of is
the price tag. And every time this time
of year, this is where the price tag
comes home to roost. And uh I just want
to take this opportunity as a chance to
remind everyone
when we're doing these things, when
we're passing these increases, this is
where the rubber meets the road. We are
a tremendously taxed city when you
factor in our bureau and city. Uh every
I don't have a pie chart, but I'm pretty
sure if you had one, we're one of the
bigger pieces of pie when it comes to
the taxing amounts. Uh and as I've said
before, every time we increase some of
this stuff, we usually say, well, it's
only a half percent and it's only a
little bit and it's only a little bit,
but it's darn near every year we're
increasing. So, uh I'm going to be
voting no against this. I know that this
is this was implemented into the budget
going forward. The frustration that I
have is when attempts are made to reduce
our spending to reduce our government in
areas that I think are reasonable in
areas that private businesses, private
families do when their budgets get
tight. We don't seem to have much
traction. So, in good conscience, I
can't vote for an increase when I have
attempted and others have attempted to
make necessary reductions to at least
chip away at this. Um, so I just I can't
in good conscience vote to keep raising
taxes on people. It goes against
everything I believe and I think that as
we go forward, we have we have to stop.
I mean, I don't know what to do. I just
feel like I'm banging my head against
the wall every year, but our people
can't afford this stuff. And somewhere
there's got to be a red line. And I see
the red line as all the people I know
that grew up in this town that are
leaving here because of the costs. And I
know some of it's not our deal, but some
of it is. And this is an example. So,
uh, I would just would like to encourage
yet again people moving forward.
We have to make tough choices. But, you
know, just saying, "Oh, well, we'll in
we'll increase the taxes later on and
we'll increase the rates and and move
on." I'm not on board with it. So, I
can't support it. And I think we're in a
crisis of our affordability for people
here who are being forced to move away
because of it.
>> Thank you. Anybody else?
» Thank you. Anybody else?
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> So, this takes comes into play April 1.
» So, this takes comes into play April 1.
>> Yeah.
And have we looked at I mean to me I'm
having trouble with this one. I mean
when especially when you look at it on
the list it's 8% 8% now it's you know.5.
Have we are we sure we looked at every
other avenue? I mean aren't we going to
be receiving what 1.8 million visitors
this year? Won't that increase our our
sales tax? Do we know what that number
is? Have we estimated any of that? Um I
I just want to it just to me
was it didn't we just save $2
some thousand? We cut something. Abby,
I'm sorry. Through the mayor.
>> Yes, we did cut that. We also have
» Yes, we did cut that. We also have
increased cruise ship revenue, which
I'll speak to that's coming in. I mean,
we have other revenue aspects that I
just don't think have been included in
this.
Michelle,
>> um, mayor and council, um, port revenues
» um, mayor and council, um, port revenues
belong to the port. They don't go to the
general fund. Um, sales tax
>> during the six months is utilizing the
» during the six months is utilizing the
sales from people outside of the city.
All those passengers that come visit
when they purchase something, we're
capitalizing on fact that they're coming
from outside of our community. They are
helping pay for the costs that the city
provides for fire, police, streets,
um
all public works in the general fund
except for solid waste and waste water.
Um and and so all of those functions
in the general fund, that's what this
helps support.
Um
so port revenues
do not pay the general fund. That is
port revenue that stays in the port
fund. The passenger warfage fee, the CPB
revenues. We went through the the cruise
ship passenger impact study and we
talked about all the things that we did
to adjust and payments in le of taxes
was one of them.
>> Um
» Um
but when we're looking at there's a
schedule attached to the agenda item in
year two
the draw on the general fund is 1.2
million.
So that there's um
we can utilize more SEM money, but that
money was set aside to be able to pay
for fire department equipment and
training, but and and we also haven't
received our final payment for any year
that we've submitted. So until we get
that final payment, we didn't want to
overall allocate SEMT money to make sure
that there's funds available for for
that equipment. At some point when we
get that final final audit completed,
then we'll have a better idea of how
much SEMT and potentially could put more
operational money into the general fund.
But until we have that, we can't in good
conscience start taking that money and
not have it available for that that
equipment for the fire department.
>> Yes, Jay. Your honor to the mayor.
» Yes, Jay. Your honor to the mayor.
Question for the finance director. Have
we received our last payment or a figure
of what we're getting uh for uh the
burough sales tax? And did we are we
under our expectations or did we go over
our expectations?
>> Um we are right at where we were last
» Um we are right at where we were last
year. So we did finally get just this
week or maybe it was late last week.
I've been out of the office. So um we
received 1.37
million which puts us right in line with
where we what we got last year. So, we
can't predict what sales revenue will
come into the city with additional
passengers. We don't know if those
passengers going to Ward Cove, if
they're coming into the city, if they're
spending money in the city. We don't
know because we don't have transactional
data. We would like to say yes, we'll
get a whole bunch more money based on
more passengers, but that isn't the case
the last two years. The last two years,
we've actually had less in sales.
than 2023.
» So
>> Judy Riley and
» Judy Riley and
>> so just so I understand. So we raise the
» so just so I understand. So we raise the
tax on our citizens
because we're not sure how much money
we're going to be receiving and
>> No, no, no. I'm sorry.
» No, no, no. I'm sorry.
>> Okay,
» Okay,
>> Council Member Zingi. Um
» Council Member Zingi. Um
the tax is to pay for the increase in
wages.
We're when we evaluate the revenue,
we're looking at sales revenue and
evaluating our regular sales tax based
on that based on what's happened the
last two years in the sales.
We project a certain amount of revenue.
It's been a little bit below. It's been
about 130,000 below. We projected 19
million the last two years and it's been
in 2024 it was 18.87 987 and right now
we're trending towards this the same
amount. We're within $12,000 of where we
were last year. So 12,000. So we're
about the same amount. I haven't
received the final payment. We still
haven't actually gotten November's
payment. Um we've got the data but not
the payment. So we haven't gotten the
final data for that one. But we're
receiving a certain amount of sales
revenue. The SEMT money I was mentioning
is we sent in financial information.
They only gave us half what we said we
utilize the the cost of the service. So
they only gave us half of that. They
give us the other half when they do the
final audit. They were supposed to
finish the final audit in the beginning
of 2025,
but we haven't gotten the final audit.
And we're expecting to get 2019,
2020,
22, 2023, and 2024.
So eventually,
but they haven't given us the final on
those.
>> Do you have a followup?
» Do you have a followup?
>> I do. So if we received
» I do. So if we received
the SEMt money, would we be able to use
that to offset the burden on the
citizens?
That is
I don't know because I don't know how
much that would be.
>> They cut they could come back and say
» They cut they could come back and say
what you received is all you'll get.
They could come back and say we overpaid
you. You need to give us money back. Or
they could come back and say what you
submitted is what we'll give you and
they'll give us everything.
>> So can I ask how much we submitted? How
» So can I ask how much we submitted? How
much that amount was? Um the first year
I believe we got 700,000.
The first couple years was about 700,000
of which we only got we only get half.
Is that the half?
About 700,000. Um it also depends on our
assets. So if we purchase new assets
then that that cost increases and so we
can submit for more. We have to keep in
mind SEMT is based on Medicare funds and
if that goes away,
>> the SEMT program can go away. So there's
» the SEMT program can go away. So there's
a balance. So one, we haven't received a
final audit. Two, we want to make sure
that once we get that final audit, what
can we plan for making sure that the
fire department's assets, their their
emergency medical transport program can
still function and operate.
The only reason why I bring that up is
it is possible we could put more of
those funds into the general fund, but
it shouldn't that's not funding that's
not the cost that it that needs to be
funded. The cost outside of fire
department is 1.21.
That's not included in it that does not
include any fire department increasing
wages.
>> Right. Uh did I understand? Are you
» Right. Uh did I understand? Are you
saying that the increased number of
passengers coming in, we are not
factoring in or estimating an increase
in sales tax due to that because they
might not come into town and spend
money? Is that what I heard you say?
>> Um, the reason why we don't factor in an
» Um, the reason why we don't factor in an
increase in sales is one, we don't know
how much they'll spend. We don't know. I
mean, our economy nationally costs are
increasing. So how much we've what we
have seen is sales for the last two
years were lower than the 2023 sales. So
what we're looking at is sales numbers.
So the last two years have been stagnant
even though the number of passengers
have significantly increased. So that's
a concern when I'm looking at sales. I
can't in good conscience say oh well
just because we'll receive another
100,000 they'll all spend I mean then
how much does each person spend? I think
that's going to vary based on the
economy and and we don't know what that
number per passenger that they spend in
the city is.
>> Well, I mean, they're going to spend
» Well, I mean, they're going to spend
something,
>> but based on the economy, is is Joe
» but based on the economy, is is Joe
going to spend $50 and then this family
over here going to spend less because
>> they have less because of the economic
» they have less because of the economic
conditions everywhere?
I don't know. I don't think we have a
crystal ball with that. And so what we
take is our last year's sales and that's
what we use to base next year's sales
on.
>> Great.
» Great.
To the finance director's point, she hit
it on the nail.
Last two years, our sales tax income has
reduced. Do you know why it has reduced?
I'm one of those retailers that collect
sale tax. Restaurants collect sales tax.
Shows collect sales tax. Tourists
collect sales tax. Our taxes and our
prices are so high that the tourists
coming in do not want to spend that kind
of money
in our town. That's why the number of
collections have reduced
and we continue
to raise taxes.
It not only affects the tourism economy,
it affects our local economy. Somebody
has a problem with a car. Engine gets
destroyed.
You can't tell them to wait till the
winter.
They have to pay and get a car
transportation. A roof gets uh caved in.
We continue continuously to raise rates
and taxes.
My issue is we are doing that to support
our contracts that we give out.
I don't know whether we need better
negotiations.
I mean
our sales tax revenue, our tax
collection is
every penny. I mean people question me
even today I get phone call why are we
raising taxes? Where is this money
going? This money is going to pay wages.
Every three years, every six years,
there is a huge increment. We've got to
make some cuts. I mean, I tried to make
a small cut and everybody
jumped on that during the budget
session. Couldn't make cuts. Now we I
mean across every department, we raising
rates and then we raising taxes as well.
I mean there are more things coming down
the pipeline that
will destroy business activity in this
city.
>> Gently.
» So years ago I was part of the um
um survey team that went down on the
dock and surveyed um passengers around
2014.
And the average spent
tourist um spent off a cruise ship is
between $75 and $100 depending on which
way they're traveling. So if we're the
last stop, they spend even less. If
we're the first stop, sometimes they
spend less because they want to save
their money for what might be upstream.
Um,
we chose not to raise the bed tax
because that affects locals somewhere
somehow in one way or another. And now
we want to choose not to raise a 5%. I
get that we do not want to put the
pressure on our uh community. I'm part
of that community.
I don't really want to see my rates go
up. I don't want to see my taxes go up.
I don't even want to see
the costs of living that I'm seeing
anywhere go up. However,
my I mean insurance, all these things
are going up. We have no control.
Our finance department has no control.
Our manager has no control. Our
community who works for the city that
lives and works in our city doesn't want
to see it either. However, we look at
our programs, we look what we have. When
we talk about small government, we're
talking about cutting crew. We're
talking about having maybe volunteers to
deliver our uh garbage to the dump.
We're talking about what's happening in
Juno right now. We have no street crew.
We have volunteers out there shoveling
roofs and streets because we we're
already bare bones. We have how many
fire department guys that are running
summers like crazy, like their head cut
off. We have police officers. We can't
even, you know, there are so many people
that don't even follow the law that they
I've seen people running the stop signs
and there's no one around to catch them
because well, everyone's busy with other
and I get it. Um,
at the end of the day, as much as I
don't want to pass this
and I've lived in a community where we
had the seasonal tax,
I and I bought stuff throughout the
season all the time. Honestly, there are
other ways we could do this. We could
just get rid of the tax cap on jewelry
for one because we're not buying it.
None of us, this community, we're not
spending $50,000 on jewelry. Juno took
the cap off. It makes me angry because
at the end of the day, we're talking
about
we have to have a budget. We have to pay
our staff. We cannot afford not to do
that because we have the bare minimum of
staff and what we need to support our
community in the services that we need
to have. It's not water. It's not sewer.
Those are things I pay for because I get
them. We're talking fire, police, we're
talking safety.
And if we want those things, we have to
do this. If we want public works to be
able to do what they do, we have we
can't take money out of the port to do
these things. We've said this forever.
It's there. That's how it works.
I don't want to do it any more than
anybody else. But at the end of the day,
we also have to have our services.
Abby in the meeting.
» At [clears throat] this time, I do not
support a seasonal sales tax increase
because I believe there are multiple
existing, upcoming, and potential
revenue opportunities as well as
cost-saving measures that should be
fully evaluated before asking residents
to pay more. First, we should review the
potential carryover of unspent funds
from prior budget cycles. These funds
represent dollars already collected or
will be collected and may help address
the long-term solution. Second, cruise
ship related revenues continue to grow
with an increased number of vessels
calling in catch can waters. Cruise ship
sales tax revenue, not talking about the
portification
is rising.
We had $120,630
come in in 2025
and we have nine more ships entering our
catch can watch waters next year. In
addition, fee increases schedules for
2027 are expected to further strengthen
the port revenue which will help in
return the percentage of our general
fund in multiple departments.
There are also opportunities to reduce
pressure on the general fund through
targeted userbased fees and expanded
earned revenue. The proposed $1 increase
from the museum and Totem Heritage
Center does exactly that and helps
directly support these facilities while
reducing the level of general funding
subsidy requirement. [laughter]
We can further build on this by
expanding revenue generating
opportunities within these spaces such
as adding a small coffee shop, a small
uh souvenir store, or even allowing
large-scale groups to tour at Totem
Heritage Center like we did precoid.
These enhancements could help create a
more self-supporting model for the
museum and heritage center, allowing
residents to continue enjoying these
cultural assets while then leveraging
the visitors dollars to cover a greater
share of the operating costs, then
ultimately benefiting the general fund.
Operational efficiencies also remain an
important part of the solution. We
continuously talk about redundancy
studies, efficiency studies. We I'm not
going to go much detail there, but
there's a lot of areas that and systems
that could be streamlined, duplication
reduced, and long-term cost savings
achieved, all of which again benefit the
general fund without impacting service
levels.
Additionally, two major revenue
opportunities may present themselves
pending court rulings. One is the
potential expansion of the transient tax
to cruise ships similar to model Hawaii
is currently working on and as of today
it was upheld in the uh court but clea
did file an appeal on New Year's Eve. Um
but it is looking very promising that
Hawaii will win. The second is the
collection of sales tax on the prices
cruise lines charge for tours. I want to
make note that that can sometimes be
200% more than what the operator is
paying tax on currently. So a
significant increase
and services offered within our
community and approach Skagway is
working on. They also filed a motion to
the um courts that clea cannot impact um
taxation and commerce law in the US. uh
which is looking very promising and
coming out.
If upheld, these options could generate
significant revenue to specifically the
general fund and help offset costs that
would otherwise fall on residents. Taken
together,
the unspent funds, carryovers every
year, increased cruise ships sales tax
revenue, future fee increases, targeted
user fees, expanded earn revenue at
cultural facilities, operational
efficiencies, and potential other
revenue tools such as the um sales tax
cap that council member Gage mentioned,
which is also on the January 30th
cooperative relations meeting to discuss
including that option.
Um, I think it could collectively offset
the approximate 1.2 million that we
think we will bring in with the added
sales tax increase. Given these
alternatives, I believe it's prudent to
fully explore and implement these
options before moving forward with the
seasonal sales tax increase. This
approach allows us to remain physically
physically physically responsible,
protect residents and local businesses,
and ensure that any tax increases
considered only after other reasonable
options have been exhausted. For that
reason, I'm not supporting the sales tax
increase. I do want to note that I did
support the rate increases because we
know the user base, we know what that's
going to, we have a plan, you know,
infrastructure, things like that. It was
heart heartburn to do that because I
know all of them are going to add but
that's infrastructure for our residents
is vital and they are a user and I
support user targeted rates versus just
a generic for everything.
>> Thank you Judy.
» Thank you Judy.
>> Well I just think that we could do I
» Well I just think that we could do I
mean I agree with Councilwoman Gage.
Let's look at the bed tax and let's look
at the cap. I just think that um
there's better ways. I support with what
Aby's talking about. Maybe we need to
take a closer look at this. It seems
like and maybe it's just me over these
last few years and because where we are
financially
um
it's our go-to. Let's raise this, let's
raise that. We do have to raise a rates.
I agree with that. We haven't done that
in a long time. But
I just feel that we could hold off on
this one until we look at something
else. I don't know what something else
is at this point, but I just think that
we're just going about this the wrong
way. There has to be a way where it
doesn't affect all these folks. Um, you
know, I mean, I know a lot of people
that are just working in restaurants and
they they can barely afford to live
here. Now I have I have a table at the
mall where people come and get food. Who
do you think goes and gets that? It's
the people that are paying this. So we
need to do a better job. We need to dig
deeper. Do we have to do this right
today? Can we not go back and just maybe
take another look? Uh I I don't know.
I'm I'm having trouble supporting this
and it's kind of where I'm at.
>> Yeah. Uh thank you. This is one of those
» Yeah. Uh thank you. This is one of those
areas where I think the convoluted
nature of the business of government
gets frustrating for residents and also
for council members and certainly for
staff. Um I for me in part the
frustration is you know we've had this
concept under discussion since the
middle of last year elements of this
proposed increase and granted it wasn't
passed so we're operating on an
assumption here but the budget that we
did just approve was tabulated in part
on this increase and I'm I'm certainly
not excited about raising rates or taxes
on our citizens including ourselves us
all being citizens paying those taxes as
well but this did seem to me to be a
better alternative to something like a
around tax increase or a property uh
property tax mill rate increase. Um I we
have we we have obligations
to our citizens to provide the services
that they depend on and those services
require staff. Those staff require
wages. We as a council have to find a
way to pay those wages. I'm all for
finding creative ideas. I just wish we
weren't doing it literally at like 11th
hour and 59th minute when we've been
talking about this proposal for the
better part of half a year having just
passed a budget that was tabulated in
part on the assumption that this would
be going into place. If there have to be
increases, I would prefer it to be
seasonal. I certainly don't want it to
be year round. I know that there's an
impact on our year- round residents,
myself included. Um, but with respect
to, you know, where and I know it's it's
it's little solace to people who are
already stretched thin, but with respect
to where we are taxed, like as as a
municipality, you know, I mean, the
median American average for municipal
sales taxes, uh, and this is according
to the the uh the U tax foundation,
which is a nonprofit, nonpartisan
organization, is a little bit over 8%.
So, we're really right there in the
median. It's 8.04% is median average
nationwide. And like I say, I know
that's little solace to somebody who's
already stretching every dollar. Uh but
I I don't agree with the assessment that
we're a highly taxed municipality when
we're right there in the middle. Um and
uh I guess, you know, I also I can't go
on anecdotal evidence. You know, I don't
for myself, maybe I'm not pennywise
enough, but when I when I go on
vacation, I don't consider a city's tax
rate before I buy lunch. You know, we
can't anticipate what people's spending
habits are going to be. There's a lot
lot of volatility in the in the uh
economy right now. And anybody that is
coming here then, you know, they're
they're they're on vacation. They're
taking a trip. This we we can't
anticipate how comfortable they might be
getting that extra meal out on the town
instead of, you know, eating at the
buffet on their ship. We just can't we
can't anticipate that. What we can
anticipate are the costs that we're
going to have with respect to the staff
that we have and the services that we
provide. And so though it's a bitter
pill to swallow, I think we have a
responsibility as a council to make sure
that we are paying the bills that we are
putting before ourselves. As council
member Gas mentioned at the start of
this discussion, yeah, this is where the
rubber hits the road. This is where we
actually have to this is where the bill
comes due. We we know what expenses
we're going to have this year. certainly
with respect to personnel and I think we
have an obligation to find the most
practically balanced way that we can to
put as much of that uh that expense out
of the pockets of the residents of
Ketchacan. And so I think at least in
the interim that a.5% seasonal sales tax
increase is a workable solution. And if
we find at the end of the year or over
the next several months that there are
creative solutions that we hadn't
considered or the spending is increased
or we have new streams of revenue or the
new ships that are coming provide
additional uh sources of funds then we
repeal the.5 additional percent sales
tax increase. We have that option also
but I think you know at least out of the
gate we have an obligation to pay for
the services and staff who provide those
services that we assure for our
residents.
We have Jan Lee, then we have Riley,
then we have Evie.
>> Yeah, I agree with Jack and I think I
» Yeah, I agree with Jack and I think I
agree with everybody on the um finding
other ways to do this. Um I think that
that means in the next year we work on
those things. I do know that if we do
some of those things, they will the
money does won't go to the general fund
based on how the cruise funding works.
However,
um, as Jack put it, if if we were to
find more money in another way and we do
take away the tax caps and stuff and
that provides us with more funding,
that's going to take time to set up.
Anything we do usually takes one to two
years to get set up. In the meantime,
we still have to pay the bill like Jack
said. And and I agree like I you know if
we can come up with a creative way to
get the funding we can always repeal the
tax.
>> Right.
» Right.
>> Uh this will be my last go. I was just
» Uh this will be my last go. I was just
going to make one point but I have to
make several now. uh one I'm sure that
compared if you factor in huge
metropolitan areas like New York and
California we may be somewhere near the
middle of taxation but when I look
across Alaska towns big and small we are
very very highly taxed and we seem to be
raising it more frequently than other
places. Uh, also with respect,
[snorts] I would not say this is an 11th
hour and 59th minute opposition to this.
I can only speak for myself, but also
other members of the council have been
in opposition to a lot of this spending.
For many many months and/or years,
attempts have been made to reduce
spending, to reduce the size of our
growing government, to uh make savings
all with the intent not to
uh not that we want to have less staff
or less things or less trucks or less
equipment, but that we know that at the
end every time we do these things, this
is the end result. So for me, for me,
every time I uncomfortably and with
great uh you know, a great amount of
thought put into it oppose things that
would be good to have or good to do. The
reason I'm opposing them is be to try to
avoid being where we are today. So with
all due respect, this is this is nothing
new for me. Uh, and I would also remind
that the the budget that was presented
and that we maybe made some amendments
to, not a whole lot, passed by one vote.
So, it's not as if the whole council has
been in support of the level of spending
that we've been presented for months on
end. Uh, also
I do think this is yet again another
reminder and this is something I've been
thinking about talking about. I know
there's a lot of opposition to it for
legal possible legal reasons, but with
like what Abby said with other areas
challenging and trying to get more out
of their cruise industries, I really
think long-term we ought to come up with
something that says every cruise ship
passenger that comes to catch a can is
going to pay it'll be factored in
separate from the CPV a small fee that's
going to go for all the things that they
use they use our garbage. So that's the
garbage has their own fund, but we raise
rates in there all the time. So that
would help with that. They use our
sewer. As we've heard, there's a great
need for bathrooms. Obviously, they're
doing something in the bathroom. They're
not freshening their hair. They're using
the sewer. So a little bit for that.
Same with water. Definitely the streets.
And I think long term we need to come up
with a plan that where we can charge a
little bit to each one of those tickets
that's going to go dedicated to those
funds. Some of those such as the streets
come out of the tax the uh general fund,
others are not, but they all need
funding and I think that the tourisms
needs to be paying more. I don't feel
they're paying their fair share in my
personal opinion. Uh, and with that, I
would like to make an amendment to this
motion, your honor, to include
the wording uh to lower the sales tax
0.5%
from October 1st through March 31st.
second.
>> In addition to this, that way we're
» In addition to this, that way we're
we're, as the finance director said,
we're going to capitalize on that nice
extra tourism revenue during the summer,
which is also going to be the same cost
to our people, but at least when the
cruise ships go away, we can do a small
alleviation. And I know that that's
obviously not going to bring in as much
money, but we collect much more during
the summer due to that. So, at least
this is some amount of an alleviation
for the long-term residents
>> or year round residents.
» or year round residents.
>> Abby,
» are we talking now about the amendment?
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Okay.
» I guess your turn.
>> I uh the amendment winter. I think it's
» I uh the amendment winter. I think it's
a great idea. I didn't think of that. Um
that would directly positively impact
our residents. Uh I do just have a few
comments in general on this is I hear
time and time again about tourists and
it's we're we're concerned about the
tourists paying a sales tax.
I apologize to Bizard. I could care less
how much they pay in sales tax. It's
great that they pay it. I'm concerned
about the people who are here buying
groceries. Those are the people I'm
concerned about because unfortunately
they're affected too. These decisions
affect them. We just increased their
their water rate, their sewer rate. It
will be electric rate and
harbor fund and solid waste next. Like
those are all coming. Those directly
impact our residents.
If there was a way to target this just
to visitors, sign me up. Let's increase
this 20%. Let's make some revenue. But
it's not. I'm worried about the
residents who are going to have to pay
this. I'm also We have $120,000 that
went to the general fund from cruise
ship sales tax. has nothing to do. It's
not tied to CPB funds. Warfridge that is
$120,000
extra into our general fund that we
hadn't anticipated and that's going to
increase for next year. So, there's all
these other revenue sources that I know
we can't factor in this specific amount,
but we can factor in there is going to
be revenue that can be used.
If there's any way to if this has to go
through, I mean, if we can lower it for
the locals in the wintertime,
I'm hugely in support of of that part of
this amendment.
The last thing that I have on here is I
normally I don't get offended at this
table by another council member's
comments. I mean, we've we've had some
great discussions, some crazy arguments,
and it typically doesn't bother me. Uh,
you know, usually we walk away, have a
good night, and move on.
But quite frankly, to hear multiple
times at this table, well, nobody's
brought forth ideas to cut this budget
to make sure we didn't have to increase
this is extremely frustrating because I
specifically sat here and asked for
$500,000 cut [snorts] of unfilled
positions. Nobody was impacted. No
single independent person would lost
their job or anything. and everybody
here said, "Nope, we want to make sure
we can fill those spots." So, I'm
extremely annoyed hearing it time after
time that nobody's coming up with
suggestions and there are suggestions
that don't impact our active staff. And
so, please tread lightly on those
comments. I mean, I don't sit here and
bash other council members for their
comments or their ideas. Maybe don't
support it. we have great conversations,
but continuously repeating those words
and saying we're waiting till the last
hour um to to bring up suggestions. Uh I
just I brought up those suggestions back
in July and 6 months later I'm still
begging for it, you know. So I just want
people to really be mindful of their
their comments and I'm not going after
the tourists. I'm trying to protect our
residents.
>> Great.
» Great.
Just a clarification on the amendment.
So, are we saying with this amendment
we're going to reduce the se uh winter
tax to 5%.
You mean additional 0.5%.
>> So, the original proposal is a 0.5%
» So, the original proposal is a 0.5%
increase in the summer. This would
>> lower 0.5 in the winter.
» lower 0.5 in the winter.
>> So, that was always the case, right?
» So, that was always the case, right?
>> No, I mean from where we are now.
» No, I mean from where we are now.
>> Yeah. But if you raise 0.5 for the
» Yeah. But if you raise 0.5 for the
seasonal, it automatically goes away in
the winter. I am proposing an additional
subtraction of%
>> that makes the tax rate 5% not 5.5% in
» that makes the tax rate 5% not 5.5% in
the winter.
>> Correct.
» Correct.
>> Okay,
» Okay,
>> that's what my clarification was. Yeah,
» that's what my clarification was. Yeah,
>> Michelle.
» Michelle.
>> So, your honor, I just want to point out
» So, your honor, I just want to point out
that in the from October to March,
the general fund uses 0.5%.
And this increase is specifically to
increase four general fund revenues.
The other 1% in the off season is
hospital sales tax and 1.15 to the
public works sales tax fund to fund
capital projects. So 1% is for debt
service in the hospital sales tax fund,
one and a half% for capital projects. If
you reduce the general fund by 0.5,
it will receive zero sales tax revenues
for the October to December quarter and
the January through March quarter. I
just want the council to understand what
that would mean.
So
from my perspective,
if you reduce the tax, don't pass the
half percent.
All we're doing is taking money out of
reserves. We're not we're going deeper
into the hole. We're trying to work our
way out of that hole. We all understood
that we passed the union contracts or
the labor contracts that we have that
there was a cost associated with that
and the opportunity was given to do this
half a percent sales tax to to make up
for that. If you don't next year you're
going to have to be more. It's going to
be double that. If you don't make a
small increment at some point the larger
aggregate is going to catch up with you
and that's what's happened. It's
interesting. This is the same discussion
we had 16 years ago when I started on
the council and every year since then.
Nobody likes to talk about taxes. Nobody
want to talk about uh rate structures.
It's it's difficult. I get that. And and
our economy isn't growing. That's a
fact. People aren't making more money.
You know, there in some sectors they
are, but across the board we have we
have, you know, certain factors that are
are struggling.
Um but we have an obligation to run the
city. Uh we went through a budget
process and I agree we put up a lot of
good ideas. Some made it, some of them
didn't. Um and and I've made with
myself, I started working on the budget
two days after we passed the budget for
next year because there's some concerns
I have in regards to
um operating budget and capital budgets
as we talked about. But those are
discussions that we're going to have to
have throughout the year. More meetings,
but throughout the year to better
understand it so that and we got to get
better buyin, I think from from staff
because um our department heads are the
ones that are managing our budgets and
if we're going to cut them or if we're
going to ask them to cut them, they're
the ones that should do that because if
I cut them, it's going to be in the
wrong place. We're going to run short.
But I I support this this tax. I know
it's tough. It's a difficult time. Um, I
just
was reading a trend magazine. One of the
things that popped up and I read I wrote
down here was local governments will
continue to weigh residential
expectations for services such as snow
removal, road maintenance, permitting
and public safety with the reality of
short staffing, budget constraints and
aging equipment and infrastructure. And
this is across the state.
This so all we do is provide services.
And if we want to save money, you just
got to tell us what services we want to
cut or reduce.
That's what it comes down to. Want less
police, we can save money. You want less
fire, we can save money. You want your
garbage picked up only two days a week,
you know, whatever you want to do. If we
want to close a landfill, I mean, those
are things that we do because all we do
is provide services. And the only way
that we can make end meet because the
cost we have a 2.7% cost living which is
great because it's lower than it has
been.
But that cost of living affects
everything that we buy as a city. And
it's not just tourism. I agree with you.
There's more people in Ketchacan that
shop on the internet taxfree.
So when we talk about tax revenues,
that's part of what's reducing that.
they can get it cheaper elsewhere.
It's just the reality of what the
internet is. We don't we're not hiring
employees because they're buying the
stuff on the internet and we not selling
it out of the stores. That that's the
fact. People are buying groceries.
People are buying dry goods. They're
buying building supplies. They're not
buying them catch can. They're buying
them down south because it's cheaper and
we don't get the tax revenue on that.
So, it's not it's not just the fact that
we have to raise this rate. There's a
lot of things that are impacting the
rates that the the sales tax that we
collect. People are going to do le and
are doing less are putting off project
just like we are. So um I think that we
have an obligation we we but we we pass
the budget and we have an obligation to
fund it. If we don't those monies just
come out of reserve if we reduce it by a
half percent we're not putting the money
into our general government. So, we're
not getting the revenues to support the
capital projects or the the um public
works operating budget because we're not
collecting any tax. We want to reduce
it. So, by reducing the tax,
we're compounding the problem we're
going to have on this table of balance.
>> I think that we can do better. If I
» I think that we can do better. If I
could on that just to clarify so
everyone's clear,
>> the amendment is to keep staff's
» the amendment is to keep staff's
recommended
summer increase where they as they have
presented
>> we collect more sales tax and then the
» we collect more sales tax and then the
decrease is just in the winter. So we're
still going to be net more than we are
currently.
>> But but maybe we don't know that because
» But but maybe we don't know that because
10:00 revenues right now showed that we
were right where we were before. Is that
correct?
>> Correct.
» Correct.
>> Yeah. But we're going to still raise it
» Yeah. But we're going to still raise it
a half percent in the summer. Mhm.
>> But if you you reduce it in the winter,
» But if you you reduce it in the winter,
all that has gone away. We haven't
funded anything.
>> But it's not all done away because we
» But it's not all done away because we
spend way more in the summer or people.
>> Yeah, we probably collect more sales
» Yeah, we probably collect more sales
tax. Yeah,
>> I agree with you.
» I agree with you.
>> No doubt.
» No doubt.
>> We do collect more in the summer, but
» We do collect more in the summer, but
there's an incremental difference and
I'd have to look at what our sales for
those quarters look like. But yes, we
would be reducing sales tax. It wouldn't
be the 1.2 to that we're projecting with
the half a percent.
>> Well, I I I sat at this table where we
» Well, I I I sat at this table where we
all work real hard to reduce the budget
and and more efficient at what we do.
And we asked our department stuff to do.
We made small
um increments of excess, but probably
not enough. So, um, I think we got to we
there's going to be a lot of the same
people sitting here next year that we
got to do a better job of what we're
doing to get that information earlier on
throughout the year in regards to what
our spending is in regards to capital
budgets, our operating budgets, but we
passed the budget and I think we need to
fund it.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Just a clarifying question for me, your
» Just a clarifying question for me, your
honor. Uh if we were to pass this
amendment, because we're in first
reading on this uh on this motion, would
that give staff time to present to us
some information about what the impact
of that decrease in the offse might be?
Okay,
>> thank you.
» thank you.
>> So now we have amendment on the floor to
» So now we have amendment on the floor to
reduce the winter sales tax by
half%.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Correct.
» Correct.
>> So that way I
» So that way I
>> No, no, that would be the amended here.
» No, no, that would be the amended here.
Correct. No, I'm just clarify. Remind me
what the um
>> and and keep the 5%
» and and keep the 5%
>> sales
» sales
>> tax
» tax
already lower it in the winter
further.
>> So it would go down an additional
» So it would go down an additional
>> we're going to go up an additional of
» we're going to go up an additional of
what we already are and this would bring
us down an additional.5 in the summer.
>> So that would take us to what?
» So that would take us to what?
>> 2.5
» 2.5
>> in the winter. So then that pays 1% goes
» in the winter. So then that pays 1% goes
to the hospital fund, right?
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> And then what is the other?
» And then what is the other?
>> One and a half% goes to the public work
» One and a half% goes to the public work
sales tax fund. So 0% would go to the
general fund October through
>> Yeah. We lose money
» Yeah. We lose money
>> and then in the summer we gain much
» and then in the summer we gain much
more.
>> Not enough money. But did you have
» Not enough money. But did you have
something Lacy?
>> I I just wanted to clarify. So with the
» I I just wanted to clarify. So with the
amendment in the summer you would have a
6% sales tax and in the winter you would
have a 2.5%
sales tax.
» That's what that's what he's saying.
>> Yeah. I'm just I just I wanted to make
» Yeah. I'm just I just I wanted to make
that
>> that's the if the amendment passes but
» that's the if the amendment passes but
the other the main me motion as amended
fails well it goes. No, no. He's already
put into his motion to do the 5% half
percent that we talked right increase in
the summer.
>> The only amendment I am making currently
» The only amendment I am making currently
is
>> to do the decrease. The rest of the
» to do the decrease. The rest of the
motion would remain. So, we would still
have to vote if the amendment passes, we
would still vote on the main motion with
the amendment added.
>> So, the motion is to reduce the winner
» So, the motion is to reduce the winner
tax rate by a half a percent.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Please call the role.
» Please call the role.
Gage,
>> no.
» no.
>> Bradbury,
» Bradbury,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Finnegan,
» Finnegan,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Gas,
» Gas,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Matani,
» Matani,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Zingy,
» Zingy,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> And that passes, your honor.
» And that passes, your honor.
>> So, we're back to the main motion in
» So, we're back to the main motion in
regards to the half percent.
>> Yes. Abby.
» Yes. Abby.
>> Um, I would like to make a another
» Um, I would like to make a another
motion, your honor. Um,
I would like to amend this an ordinance
to add a third public hearing
meeting onto it. And if I can get a
second, I'll explain why.
>> Second.
» Second.
>> Um, thank you. Appreciate that. So,
» Um, thank you. Appreciate that. So,
I called around to some people um kind
of all over about numerous topics on the
meeting tonight and a lot of people
didn't realize we were meeting tonight
versus Thursday because we're it's a
regular meeting. We knew it's a holiday
stuff like that. Um and so I just feel
like
we need an additional time frame for the
public to weigh in. I mean this only on
this one the sales tax because
ultimately we answer them. I know it
delays this timeline but I really think
that we should have a third public
hearing on a regular scheduled meeting
so that it's at Thursday at 7 to make
sure that the public knows when we're
meeting and and whatnot. So that's the
only reason I wanted to add add that for
the public.
>> Can we add an extra hearing for these?
» Can we add an extra hearing for these?
>> I don't know.
» I don't know.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
Um, so our remote sales tax seller, we
have to give them any changes in the
sales tax rate um, 30 days before it's
effective. So, I just want the council
to know that. And the bureau also has to
program into their paperwork for April
one information any changes. So, we need
to be cognizant of the time it will take
them to modify. And I don't know exactly
what that is, but we we want to give
them ample time to change their
documentation online and in paper form
if it passes.
>> When would you need that?
» When would you need that?
>> The third public hearing would be
» The third public hearing would be
February 5th.
» Does that give enough time
>> for the remote seller? I need to check
» for the remote seller? I need to check
on with the bureau to see how much time
they'll need.
>> It would give them most of February and
» It would give them most of February and
all of March.
>> May not be as much because a lot of
» May not be as much because a lot of
things are online. I just don't want to.
>> Sure. Sure.
» Sure. Sure.
>> But present, we have a motion
» But present, we have a motion
to raise the seasonal sales tax by a
half% during the summer
>> and it's been amended to lower it during
» and it's been amended to lower it during
>> that one already except Yeah.
» that one already except Yeah.
>> Yeah. I know it's
» Yeah. I know it's
>> been added to the motion now. Yes.
» been added to the motion now. Yes.
>> So, I want to keep it all the same. I'm
» So, I want to keep it all the same. I'm
just wanting to add a third meeting on a
proper
>> hearing
» hearing
>> meeting time.
» meeting time.
>> That's all I wanted.
» That's all I wanted.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> I don't, your honor, um, and council
» I don't, your honor, um, and council
Bradberry, I don't think there's
anything to prevent the council from
doing that. I think it's more a minimum
that you have to have those two hearings
to provide
>> um, public notice. I I I feel like we've
» um, public notice. I I I feel like we've
done this in the past, especially when
there's been enough changes to the
original ordinance to warrant additional
discussion. So, I don't think there's a
problem in doing that. Again, provided
the timing
>> beforehand that we agreed to move to
» beforehand that we agreed to move to
have made an amendment.
>> I made an amendment and it's been
» I made an amendment and it's been
second. So, please call roll.
>> Uh Matani,
» Uh Matani,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Zingy,
» Zingy,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Gage,
» Gage,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Bradberry,
» Bradberry,
>> yes. Okay. Finnegan.
» yes. Okay. Finnegan.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> And gas.
» And gas.
>> Yes. And that passes, your honor.
» Yes. And that passes, your honor.
>> Thank you. Then we're back to the main
» Thank you. Then we're back to the main
motion.
>> Yes. Abby,
» Yes. Abby,
>> your honor, I would like to make another
» your honor, I would like to make another
amendment. I would like to amend the
effective date for this to from April
1st, 2026 to April 1st, 2027.
>> Put it off a year.
» Put it off a year.
>> Just need a second and I can talk
» Just need a second and I can talk
further about
>> second.
» second.
So, the reason I am asking for this to
be postponed to 2027 on top of my
numerous other questions or statements
earlier,
businesses in our community, local
businesses have been selling their tours
and services for this upcoming summer.
They've been online since probably, if
they're lucky, as early as October. So,
they've been selling under the
assumption of a certain rate. So if we
increase this for April 1st,
they will have to
beat that cost on them. Those businesses
will because they have not had ample
amount of time to raise the tax rate on
their um on their customers. So I I am
because it's based off of service date.
It's not based on purchase date. And so
I'm just concerned that we are now if we
wait and or if we do this and we say
this summer we're going to increase it,
we're now taking more money out of our
local business pockets if they've
already sold their services, made
contracts or things like that under that
service um time frame of a different
one. So I am concerned again on the
impact of local businesses. I don't care
about anybody else. Um, so that is a
huge concern for me and the why I'm
wanting to postpone the effective date.
» Well, I don't I don't agree with that. I
think that uh the tourism industry is
continue to run. We can't adjust our
taxes based on their seasonal sales. So,
um, and and you know, it's kind of
ironic we sit here and talk about the
cost going up for the city. you don't
want to pass rates, but it's a given
that the the industry is going to raise
rates automatically if their rates go
up. So, I don't know where we're at with
stuff. So, I I I couldn't support that.
>> Yes,
» Yes,
>> I would like to counter that because uh
» I would like to counter that because uh
we as service business, we increased our
rates on user bases. So,
the businesses are we're passing on our
costs and increased 8% on two so far.
That's what our local businesses also
do. Yep.
>> And so you saying, well, we don't
» And so you saying, well, we don't
necessarily
uh it contradicts itself. Well, I think
that statement contradicts ourselves
because we just did that to ordinances
before this. And so now we're saying
sorry because you operate a business and
you're offering a service.
>> Too bad. I mean, we don't say that to
» Too bad. I mean, we don't say that to
ourselves.
>> Yeah. Well, you raise your tax and they
» Yeah. Well, you raise your tax and they
pay your RA. I'm just saying I
>> but I think we have a need that your
» but I think we have a need that your
honor
>> I I think we have a need a need that's
» I I think we have a need a need that's
greater than that of the
>> the tourism industry and so on
» the tourism industry and so on
>> local businesses
» local businesses
>> local I guess so
» motion on the floor any other comments
please call go
>> yes
» yes
>> matani
» matani
>> yes
» yes
>> zingy
Yes.
>> Gage, no.
» Gage, no.
>> Bradbury,
» Bradbury,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Finnegan,
» Finnegan,
>> no.
» no.
>> Who did I miss?
» Who did I miss?
>> Goose is not here.
» Goose is not here.
>> I know. Easy. So,
» I know. Easy. So,
>> all right.
» all right.
>> So, that passes.
» So, that passes.
>> We move on to uh the executive session.
» We move on to uh the executive session.
>> Oh, the main motion is still yet to go.
» Oh, the main motion is still yet to go.
Oh, sorry. We haven't got it yet. Big go
>> Bradbury.
» Bradbury.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Gage,
» Gage,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Zingy,
» Zingy,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> Matani,
» Matani,
>> no.
» no.
>> Gas,
» Gas,
>> no.
» no.
>> Finigan,
» Finigan,
>> yes.
» yes.
>> That passes on 42.
» That passes on 42.
>> That moves us on to executive session.
» That moves us on to executive session.
There's a request for an exe executive
session authorizing to negotiate with
the newly represented
employees of the Porton Harbor
Department.
» I have a motion, please. $2 million.
[clears throat]
>> Your honor, I move the city council
» Your honor, I move the city council
declare that consistent with the acting
assistant city manager's recommendation,
it is in the best interest of the city
to discuss strategies relative to
negotiation of an interim letter of
agreement between the city and the
international brother of electrical
workers local 1547 to be incorporated
into the general government contract in
executive session. In accordance with
that finding, the city council will go
into executive session in accordance
with KMC2.04.025A1A
25A1A
to discuss said negotiations and
subjects the knowledge of which would
have an adverse impact upon the finances
of the city and upon the city's ability
to negotiate favorable labor agreements.
Do I have a second?
>> Second moved and seconded. Any
» Second moved and seconded. Any
discussion
hearing? Seeing none, please call the
>> Zingi.
» Zingi.
>> Yes. Madani.
» Yes. Madani.
>> Yes. Gas.
» Yes. Gas.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Finigan.
» Finigan.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Bradberry.
» Bradberry.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Gage.
» Gage.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> All right. We do.
» Directive.
Motion to
>> adjourn.
First. Oh, we got all that stuff.
>> [laughter]
» [laughter]
>> I'm getting out of here early.
» I'm getting out of here early.
>> We should have done all that before.
» We should have done all that before.
>> Yeah, we should have done that before.
» Yeah, we should have done that before.
Manager did
[laughter]
>> you got off that anyway?
» you got off that anyway?
>> You thought you got off easy.
» You thought you got off easy.
>> Um your honor and members of the
» Um your honor and members of the
council, I really don't have anything. I
just want to um express my appreciation
to all the folks who've been working
really hard as we've had these snow
storms. um who have been out plowing,
consulting, um making sure our essential
services are still happening. Um so just
a lot of appreciation and kudos to them.
That's really it.
>> Thank you. Uh council committee reports.
» Thank you. Uh council committee reports.
Um city clerk spot.
>> No, nothing.
» No, nothing.
>> City attorney not here. Um future agenda
» City attorney not here. Um future agenda
items.
>> Yes. I'd like to bring back a future
» Yes. I'd like to bring back a future
agenda item to align the process for
obtaining cab licenses to align it with
that that Uber is under
>> changing the self-regulating to the
» changing the self-regulating to the
company rather than the police
department.
>> And I'd like to co-sponsor that.
» And I'd like to co-sponsor that.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> You all want to sponsor it.
» You all want to sponsor it.
>> I'll send you the
» I'll send you the
>> cross the aisle. [laughter]
» cross the aisle. [laughter]
Bring the mayor and council comments.
Abby,
>> none.
» none.
>> Gently,
» Gently,
>> I have none.
» I have none.
>> Judy,
» Judy,
>> I have none.
» I have none.
>> Jay, just kudos to the street crew and
» Jay, just kudos to the street crew and
the electric department. They kept the
lights on and the streets crew did a
great job cleaning up the snow and
everything that came with the wind.
>> Riley, your honor.
» Riley, your honor.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Oh, yeah. Thank you, your honor. Just
» Oh, yeah. Thank you, your honor. Just
reflecting on this evening's
conversations, especially with respect
to the final motion that we had on the
table. Uh I know that I I characterized
um the decision tonight regarding that
motion as being one of the 11th hour.
And um I think the point was made and I
think it was a good one. And a lot of
effort has been made by council members
who have been very creative, have worked
really hard to find other ways to save
uh funds. So, I don't think it was
really appropriate or fair for me to
characterize that as an 11th hour
decision. So, I just wanted to reflect
on that and make that comment and um
apologize for dismissing the efforts
that have been made by council members
who have made efforts or attempted to
find other ways of making cuts or
finding creative ways of generating
revenue.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
I have nothing. Ajourn.