1 00:00:16,460 --> 00:00:44,060 Welcome to the special council meeting of Monday, December 19, 2022. The City of Langford sits upon the traditional territories of the Coast Salish people of the Asquimal, the Songhees, the Sheenah nations, and of the Masonic peoples represented by the start lip. Packer Sheen, the Sayut, the Seacum, and the Malahad nations. We thank them for sharing this beautiful land. My name is Braden Hutchins, and I will be the moderator for today's meeting. 2 00:00:45,020 --> 00:00:49,820 Attendance by the public is in person or via Zoom, either using the Zoom app or telephone. 3 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,160 If you're joining us through the Zoom app and wish to ask a question or make a comment, 4 00:00:54,820 --> 00:00:56,640 please use the raise hand function in the app. 5 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,040 Please keep in mind that you're able to both raise and lower your hand in the app. 6 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,320 You will be called on based on your username and you will need to unmute yourself when it 7 00:01:05,320 --> 00:01:08,560 is your time to speak, do not lower your hand until you finish speaking. 8 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,640 If you're joining us via telephone, you must press star 9 to raise your hand and you should 9 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:18,640 hear a recording that advises you that the moderator will be notified you wish to speak. 10 00:01:19,260 --> 00:01:22,520 You will be called upon using the last three digits of your phone number. Please press 11 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,280 tar six to unmute your phone. 12 00:01:26,340 --> 00:01:29,060 Those persons attending in public and wishing to speak may 13 00:01:29,060 --> 00:01:33,100 approach the podium one at a time through public participation or someone the meeting begins. 14 00:01:34,100 --> 00:01:38,920 When you begin to speak, please begin providing us with your name and address. There will be one 15 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,400 opportunity to speak during the public participation section at the meeting at which time you may speak 16 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:44,720 to any item on the agenda. 17 00:01:46,870 --> 00:01:49,070 Please state the item number that you wish to speak to. 18 00:01:50,890 --> 00:01:54,610 Members of the public may be permitted to speak more than once, but additional comments are 19 00:01:54,610 --> 00:02:00,010 limited to those not raised by the person previously. Colors will not be permitted to speak a second 20 00:02:00,010 --> 00:02:03,730 or subsequent time, and to all other calls, colors have had an opportunity to speak. 21 00:02:04,550 --> 00:02:08,870 For matter or not, it's not appearing on the agenda. Please contact City Hall by calling 22 00:02:08,870 --> 00:02:12,770 calling 250-4787-882 during regular business hours. 23 00:02:13,190 --> 00:02:15,330 If you experience technical difficulties in getting through, 24 00:02:15,610 --> 00:02:16,810 please contact City Hall. 25 00:02:17,430 --> 00:02:20,790 The city also accepts written submissions and comments. 26 00:02:21,850 --> 00:02:24,090 Thank you, and I'll turn it over to Mayor Goodmanson 27 00:02:24,090 --> 00:02:25,750 to call the meeting to over to order 28 00:02:25,750 --> 00:02:27,950 and to adopt the agenda with one amendment 29 00:02:27,950 --> 00:02:29,430 for a laid item for people. 30 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:35,760 Okay, thanks everyone for coming. 31 00:02:37,140 --> 00:02:38,600 I haven't been here for two weeks, 32 00:02:38,620 --> 00:02:41,400 so the last time I was here was literally sitting here 33 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:47,380 and then I've been away sick for two weeks, just everyone knows I've got the clear to be here. 34 00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:52,960 I do have a bit of a latent cough, so I might not cough and then I'll have like 30 seconds of 35 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:59,220 coughing, but I'm told that it's, well, that's my own history when I get a cold, I mean, for weeks 36 00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:04,960 afterwards I'll have a cough, but I'm told you guys should be fine and I was all COVID negative 37 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:11,120 multiple multiple times. So with that I call this meeting in order. 38 00:03:14,740 --> 00:03:15,540 Do we have 39 00:03:15,540 --> 00:03:21,520 an looking for an approval of an agenda with the addition of item 4.1? Mary 40 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:27,600 Goodman said it if I could also ask that we add as item 4 public participation and 41 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:34,580 we reorder the rest of the agenda 5.16 and 7 accordingly and so that way if 42 00:03:34,580 --> 00:03:38,320 there are any members of the public who are calling in our agenda can speak to the late 43 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,120 item if they so wish. I'll move the agenda with those changes. 44 00:03:43,540 --> 00:03:48,080 Second. Okay. All those in favor? 45 00:03:50,590 --> 00:03:50,850 Opposed? 46 00:03:52,170 --> 00:03:57,710 Do I speak to acknowledge that I'm approving? 47 00:03:59,970 --> 00:04:03,610 Mary, I think you at this time you only need to speak to acknowledge if you're opposed. 48 00:04:03,610 --> 00:04:06,130 If you're silent, we will assume that you're in the affirmative. 49 00:04:07,690 --> 00:04:07,950 Okay. 50 00:04:09,970 --> 00:04:10,530 Thank you. 51 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:14,060 Okay. 52 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:17,840 Item four, 4.0. 53 00:04:18,580 --> 00:04:19,280 Public participation. 54 00:04:19,740 --> 00:04:23,060 Is there anyone in person or online or public participation? 55 00:04:24,780 --> 00:04:25,420 Mayor Goodman. 56 00:04:25,540 --> 00:04:27,480 Well, there's no members here at City Hall. 57 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,260 There are a handful of folks calling in online. 58 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,480 At present, no one has their hands up, 59 00:04:33,580 --> 00:04:36,780 but we might give them a couple of moments to see if anyone wishes to speak 60 00:04:36,780 --> 00:04:38,580 to 5.1 call 61 00:04:48,980 --> 00:04:52,860 in a second time for anyone for public participation on 62 00:04:57,660 --> 00:04:58,700 a third and final time. 63 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,180 Okay, we'll consider public participation closed by 64 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:13,980 law 4.1, by law number 2115 and 2116 65 00:05:14,860 --> 00:05:17,180 with the background report attached. 66 00:05:20,170 --> 00:05:21,770 I believe we have a staff report. 67 00:05:22,670 --> 00:05:29,550 Mr. Mayor, as requested by council staff for working on a tree management strategy for the 68 00:05:29,550 --> 00:05:34,790 entire municipality and we should be able to present that to you in February of next year. 69 00:05:35,410 --> 00:05:42,550 In the meantime, Council may wish to consider bylaws 21-15 and 21-16 as a temporary measure 70 00:05:43,070 --> 00:05:50,290 until the tree management strategy is adopted. Bylaw 21-15 is to specifically prevent tree cutting 71 00:05:50,290 --> 00:05:56,770 on the approximately 30% of land and land that is not encompassed by the development permit designation. 72 00:05:57,510 --> 00:06:07,650 Bylaw to prohibit tree cutting will apply to all lands in length and bring all lands into parity with the development permit areas as well. 73 00:06:08,070 --> 00:06:14,510 The bylaw allows for various exemptions such as dangers and hazardous trees and lands to which the development permit has been issued. 74 00:06:14,510 --> 00:06:24,590 and Biola 21-16 is the changes to the municipal ticketing by law to impose penalties for failing 75 00:06:24,590 --> 00:06:27,950 to abide by Biola 21-15. 76 00:06:28,870 --> 00:06:31,450 I think that summarizes happy to answer any questions. 77 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,060 Is anyone have any discussion? 78 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:37,840 Questions? 79 00:06:40,220 --> 00:06:41,600 Mary, do you have any questions up there? 80 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:55,840 I did notice it said $5,000 was a penalty and is that that's a minimum penalty? 81 00:06:58,420 --> 00:07:05,880 Through the chair, there's two types of penalties proposed in the Biola under the Offences Act. 82 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,360 We're suggesting a minimum of $5,000. 83 00:07:11,420 --> 00:07:17,200 Paul's in formula or senior by-law officers in the audience type, Paul's in formula that 84 00:07:17,700 --> 00:07:21,620 under the recent amendments to the Offences Act put out by the province, we can actually 85 00:07:21,620 --> 00:07:27,220 go up to $50,000 per occurrence. So, the $5,000 would be the low bar, but depending on 86 00:07:27,220 --> 00:07:31,680 the circumstances, Council through going through the courts and the city going through the courts 87 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,340 could go much higher. The other fine in the by-laws through the municipal ticket information 88 00:07:36,340 --> 00:07:40,820 bylaw, that's the tickets that our bylaw staff can hand out without going through the courts. 89 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:47,300 Provincial legislation prevents MTI infractions across the province for municipalities from 90 00:07:47,300 --> 00:07:53,260 going higher than $1,000, but those are for the immediate fines that can be handed out without 91 00:07:53,260 --> 00:07:56,720 needing to rely on the provincial court system, which can obviously be longer and drawn out. 92 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:02,540 So two sets of fines in the bylaw, minimum of $5,000 is recommended for the long form under the 93 00:08:02,540 --> 00:08:05,560 and then the $1,000 for ones we can issue internally. 94 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:15,620 Okay, thank you. So that wouldn't be just $5,000. That's the minimum. And then it would depend on the situation and the court would decide up to $50,000. 95 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:24,900 It wouldn't be the court for us to decide it would be for us to seek compensation through the offenses act at the courts. 96 00:08:27,260 --> 00:08:38,740 I think the thought process behind the minimum of $5,000 is you might have a tree of low economic value and really a tree of no consequence, but we want to send the message for a single tree that 97 00:08:38,740 --> 00:08:45,820 But that cutting it down or damaging or destroying it is against the city's bylaws. 98 00:08:46,380 --> 00:08:50,740 But you might have other trees in particular, Douglas Virtures, that are worth a fair amount 99 00:08:50,740 --> 00:08:55,780 of money if they are fallen properly and they can be harvested and reused for wood and 100 00:08:55,780 --> 00:09:01,680 a penalty of $5,000 might not be enough to prevent somebody from taking down a large Douglas 101 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:05,600 Virtue if they can stand to make that much or more, and I don't know the mill rates currently 102 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:06,060 for lumber. 103 00:09:06,060 --> 00:09:15,920 But if they can make some money from taking entry and selling it, we might want to consider the ability to have penalties that are substantially higher than the value of a tree. 104 00:09:16,500 --> 00:09:23,040 And it is important to note that these fines are not per project or per property. 105 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,820 They are per tree and per offense. 106 00:09:25,820 --> 00:09:31,220 So if someone takes down, say, 10 trees, it could be a minimum of $5,000 per tree or $50,000 107 00:09:31,220 --> 00:09:39,020 or if we're doing the MTI, $1,000 per tree or $10,000 total for reach tree, total. 108 00:09:40,580 --> 00:09:42,020 Thank you for that clarification. 109 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:44,200 Councillor Spock. 110 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:51,220 Thank you. I'm really glad to see this coming before us and that we'll be considering it for 111 00:09:51,220 --> 00:09:58,560 a final in February for a real bylaw in its own merit. So just a quick question about 112 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:06,980 who this applies to. This is all parcels of land in Langford, including private property 113 00:10:06,980 --> 00:10:12,700 through the chair to the platter. And your worship, this would apply to all property in Langford. 114 00:10:13,020 --> 00:10:21,200 There are exemptions. People would apply to that for if they qualify for an exemption. There's 115 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:30,100 Just to follow up question so through the chair again to the planner so if someone has a tree that needs to come down 116 00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:38,160 That's dead on their private property just for clarity for the public then they would come they would consult with City Hall and they would have to have an 117 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:48,580 Arborist determine that tree doesn't need to come down. That's correct. It's pretty much the same process that exists in development permit areas now, so it just has this 118 00:10:48,580 --> 00:10:53,180 same level of protection to all other properties are not in the development permit areas. 119 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:57,060 Absolutely, thank you, ma'am. 120 00:10:57,340 --> 00:10:59,460 Just to be clear, who pays for the arborist for a private citizen? 121 00:10:59,780 --> 00:11:00,760 Is that the citizen's responsibility? 122 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:02,560 Yes, that is. 123 00:11:03,620 --> 00:11:04,060 Thank you. 124 00:11:06,770 --> 00:11:11,730 And just for clarification, this is non-DPA lens. 125 00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:20,890 So people that are under a DPA area, they have their own separate regulations and fines for 126 00:11:20,890 --> 00:11:43,290 are breaches correct? Yes, and no. This will apply to all property in Langford. However, properties that have received a development permit will be exempt and properties that are in a development permit area that but have proceeded without a permit will be subject to this by law and the fines associated as well. 127 00:11:44,150 --> 00:12:13,370 Okay, that was one question I didn't quite 100% on the report correct me if I'm wrong right now it's a $10,000 fine we're removing a tree in the DPA area without permission that would be the maximum I believe maximum yeah, yeah, and then and for clarity for the two properties in the downtown core the ones on on Brock and Strathmore and the other ones on red place. 128 00:12:13,370 --> 00:12:19,310 We would die-redate those in our systems and when those properties come forward for 129 00:12:19,310 --> 00:12:23,010 rezoning if they haven't already because the trees are already down before the 130 00:12:23,010 --> 00:12:28,050 by-law was passed. We'd look to seek equivalent compensation through the 131 00:12:28,050 --> 00:12:32,870 retirement rezoning so we can still treat them as equally as if they'd taken on 132 00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:34,890 the trees now but we can take it as a condition of rezoning. 133 00:12:37,070 --> 00:12:37,490 But does 134 00:12:37,490 --> 00:12:44,790 they're not already a present regulation that if they took down trees in a 135 00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:54,270 There is, but it typically is only applied in places where the applicant isn't willing to be cooperative. 136 00:12:55,010 --> 00:12:56,810 In this case, we've spoken with both owners. 137 00:12:57,850 --> 00:13:03,150 They are taking the first step is having an arborist look at what was removed. 138 00:13:03,410 --> 00:13:12,010 The quality of those trees, their diameters, and then hoping to bring that forward with the development permit application after the fact. 139 00:13:12,590 --> 00:13:17,370 and as Braden said, they'll still have to face counts of time of resounding. 140 00:13:17,890 --> 00:13:25,030 In terms of paperwork, if they will voluntarily give us the financial contribution as part 141 00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:29,670 of the rezoning, instead of having to seek that financial extraction through the courts, 142 00:13:30,250 --> 00:13:33,770 it's a lot less costly, a lot less effort on staff to get the same money. 143 00:13:33,770 --> 00:13:34,730 Um, 144 00:13:42,610 --> 00:13:50,290 that makes sense. Yes. Um, don't 100% agree with that, but I am, uh, I'm not going to argue with you right now. I'm in the middle of a meeting. 145 00:13:50,930 --> 00:13:51,410 Um, 146 00:13:53,890 --> 00:14:04,270 one other question. Anyone does have a fine or something like that coming through. Does that have to be paid before they can get their permits or so on? 147 00:14:06,660 --> 00:14:10,880 Typically, the way that we've operated is what we call a clean hands policy. 148 00:14:11,580 --> 00:14:22,460 So that if there's anything outstanding, if there's any works that are required or if there's any information that hasn't yet been provided, that would be provided before their application goes forward. 149 00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:28,060 All right. 150 00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:31,340 And Councillor Spock has a comment here. 151 00:14:32,380 --> 00:14:36,300 Once again, thank you, I didn't say thank you for the report. 152 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:43,160 So it would be by law that would be bringing this to our attention. 153 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:50,760 So if a tree has been taken down on someone's property, then what do we expect for the complaint 154 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:57,800 process and what do we consider to be the appropriate process for complaint and then follow up and 155 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,900 and then determine that if there hasn't. 156 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:23,760 Being a tree taken down in contravention to the by-law. Just how could you just sort of walk for the sake of the public? All please feel free to come to the podium and jump in anytime. It would be reported as we do for any other by-law refraction being parking or building or noise or whatever it might be. By-law has the the general email inbox as well as the duty phone they carry for by-law complaints. 157 00:15:26,380 --> 00:15:28,880 Ideally, we, we can. 158 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,280 get on site in real time. 159 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:38,920 So as an example, when trees were coming down at the Brock site, one of our bile officers 160 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:44,800 Derek went on site, but he went on site recording with the video cameras. 161 00:15:45,060 --> 00:15:47,760 So if we do take it a quarter, we do have to challenge it. 162 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,820 The video date stamp, time stamped, and there's no disputing the video. 163 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:58,280 And so it's really easy, then we're easier, I should say, to enforce those financial 164 00:15:59,020 --> 00:16:05,860 extraction that we require. Hall can speak to how it becomes a little bit more sticky if it's 165 00:16:05,860 --> 00:16:11,260 harder to prove that the tree did come down when someone else says it did, if we're first of 166 00:16:11,260 --> 00:16:15,100 someone saying, well, that's been down for a longer. I didn't do it or something like that. So 167 00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:19,960 we do need to have evidence that it can be enforced, but Paul's written that you want to add to that. 168 00:16:23,870 --> 00:16:30,170 I was going to say that currently, by-laws staff do act on complaints, so it's complaint-driven. 169 00:16:31,450 --> 00:16:36,550 In the case of Strathman and Brock, because we did not have a regulatory by-law in place, 170 00:16:36,910 --> 00:16:43,210 that wasn't something that by-law would generally typically observe and take notes of and do research on. 171 00:16:43,610 --> 00:16:49,070 When it came to my attention that there was tree cutting going on within a DP zone, 172 00:16:49,070 --> 00:16:54,090 within the investigation and we did work without planning the department and seeing 173 00:16:54,090 --> 00:16:56,650 the staff to try and resolve that. 174 00:17:00,420 --> 00:17:04,060 Thank you. So it, thanks Paul. So it's being Council's policy 175 00:17:04,060 --> 00:17:11,820 that there's two complaints per complaint, for issue, for by-law, for them to be activated, 176 00:17:12,220 --> 00:17:17,480 other than parking, as my understanding. So that policy would probably have to be reviewed 177 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:24,400 attitude as this our complaints policy is based on the two complaints. So that's why 178 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,820 I'm asking, like, how would this, would it be initiated? Would a call to City Hall 179 00:17:28,820 --> 00:17:33,400 to planning or to any staff member than it goes to by law? Because I think we would waive 180 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,540 the two complaint or just say that our policy would be one complaint. 181 00:17:39,580 --> 00:17:41,260 So we do have a policy 182 00:17:41,260 --> 00:17:46,300 that exists. And I know that it's not Paul's issue, the policy, it's counsel's. 183 00:17:50,610 --> 00:17:54,810 I go what do you want me to do? The bylaw 184 00:17:58,840 --> 00:17:59,980 does a delicate dance 185 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:10,140 with the two complaint policy. And by that I mean the intent of the two complaint policy is to stop 186 00:18:10,140 --> 00:18:16,760 vexatious complaints amongst neighbors and the tit for tat that can happen when folks 187 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:25,440 If you can't get along living next to one another, in reality, Viola receives, it's going 188 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:31,120 to be close to 5,000 Viola infractions, or complaints alleged Viola infractions this 189 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:31,320 year. 190 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:38,720 And I'd be willing to bet that a good chunk of those don't have two complaints, or else 191 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,200 would be have 10,000 complaints coming, not 5,000 complaints. 192 00:18:43,260 --> 00:18:47,260 One of the things that BILA, two of the things that BILA pride itself on, I know, is one 193 00:18:47,260 --> 00:18:53,400 very quick response, but secondly, it's a badge of honor how few BILA complaints make it to 194 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:59,360 counsel that you're become aware of and your consideration. We know if BILA is dealing with 195 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:05,100 almost 5,000 complaints a year and only a handful will make it to your emails, it's a process well done. 196 00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:11,200 And so I think Violet exercise is judgment when two complaints are necessary, but if 197 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,400 they can help the neighbor, the person who is at a concern, if it's only one complaint, 198 00:19:15,860 --> 00:19:19,740 and we're not overly strapped for resources, we'll get on top of it and make sure people 199 00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:20,160 feel heard. 200 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:27,140 So, then should we say that it is one complaint for a tree coming down because that's my 201 00:19:27,140 --> 00:19:27,480 feeling? 202 00:19:29,580 --> 00:19:33,360 My read of it is that you don't need to because that's what Violet will just do over the 203 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:34,480 a regular course of their business. 204 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:40,120 So fair. 205 00:19:41,300 --> 00:19:41,940 Thanks, Brad. 206 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:42,920 To the chair. 207 00:19:43,420 --> 00:19:49,200 Yeah, typically the way that we operate, we do have a two-compaint policy, particularly when 208 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,860 we're dealing with secondary suites or land use violations. 209 00:19:52,620 --> 00:19:57,420 If there's a public safety matter or something that's very impactful to the community, the whole, 210 00:19:57,620 --> 00:20:04,620 we will work on those files proactively and we will also work on those with one complaint. 211 00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:13,160 Typical issues would be traffic issues, people camping in the park and those public nuisance type complaints. 212 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:23,940 The two complaint policy we do try and apply when something is less impactful on the neighbourhood or community. 213 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:30,260 Something like a tree protection by law, we've never had a regulatory by law that by law a department of force. 214 00:20:30,260 --> 00:20:35,580 And in this case, because it is an absolute prohibition, that's something depends on 215 00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:38,140 direction from our senior staff administration. 216 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:44,020 Our department could either work proactively, we could wait for complaints to come through. 217 00:20:44,180 --> 00:20:47,560 That would be based on direction from the senior staff. 218 00:20:49,450 --> 00:20:50,960 And just building on that, 219 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,470 I know when Derek communicated with the folks, the three both 220 00:20:57,470 --> 00:21:03,670 property owner in the tree companies on site in the downtown, with Darren's blessing 221 00:21:03,670 --> 00:21:08,710 and my support, the message we gave was, give them the one warning, find them the maximum 222 00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:14,190 amount and if it continues, find them both every day to the maximum amount and send that 223 00:21:14,190 --> 00:21:14,530 message. 224 00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:20,670 So if council is okay with that, depending on the situation, it may or may not be a warning 225 00:21:20,670 --> 00:21:23,650 but we will be finding to the maximum amount until people do get the message. 226 00:21:23,650 --> 00:21:23,970 Can 227 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,000 I ask for clarification? 228 00:21:29,220 --> 00:21:30,020 That's what I was going to do. 229 00:21:33,140 --> 00:21:41,020 I just wanted to clarify if there was a taking a case to court, would it have been important 230 00:21:41,020 --> 00:21:48,380 to have put a not a requirement for two complaints in an official capacity just so that there's 231 00:21:48,380 --> 00:21:55,740 no challenge to us asking for compensation if they say, oh well, we didn't have two complaints, 232 00:21:55,740 --> 00:22:02,120 So you shouldn't be enforcing this or some other sort of legal complication. 233 00:22:03,850 --> 00:22:06,130 I don't believe so. 234 00:22:07,490 --> 00:22:09,430 The two complaint policy. 235 00:22:12,030 --> 00:22:14,250 All correct me if I'm wrong, but is it in writing? 236 00:22:15,650 --> 00:22:17,010 I don't believe I've seen a. 237 00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:24,830 Exactly. I don't believe I've seen a by law or a policy in my tenure here that has that in writing. 238 00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:29,710 it's been an administrative policy that we've applied on a case by case basis on the nature 239 00:22:29,710 --> 00:22:33,310 of the complaint, but it's not something that we would typically define through council 240 00:22:33,310 --> 00:22:40,220 resolution through bylaw through policy. So in this case, the tree removal, if there was 241 00:22:40,220 --> 00:22:47,320 an infraction, any one complaint, including staff, it wouldn't have to be a civilian complaint, 242 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:54,240 would be considered to take action? No, not at all. And you know, staff will, as we're driving 243 00:22:54,240 --> 00:23:00,040 around, if we see something, we want any issue, we do immediately pull over, we'll call 244 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:05,100 by law and we'll say we just drove past X, can you please have a look and sometimes that's 245 00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:10,380 how things filter up. Okay, thank you. We definitely want to take this very seriously. 246 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:19,400 Yes, Father. Thank you. Thank you for this very informative report. I'm just wondering if for 247 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,960 the benefit of the public, we could discuss a little bit more about the sunset clause of six months. 248 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:28,740 what that would look like for this by-law, recognizing that this did come to us quite quickly. 249 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:29,880 Thank you. 250 00:23:33,030 --> 00:23:39,590 Mr. Mayor, the purpose of the Sunset Clause is in anticipation of a more complete, 251 00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:52,990 more far-reaching and just absolutely how we help will be a comprehensive tree management strategy. 252 00:23:53,970 --> 00:24:03,390 And we hope that that's introduced in February and should be adopted if it follows normal course before the 180 days. 253 00:24:05,470 --> 00:24:06,670 It expires. 254 00:24:08,090 --> 00:24:16,010 If we're not able to meet that deadline, then we can bring this by law back to be amended and re adopted. 255 00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:26,590 So at that point, along the way, I guess I should say, we'll be looking at further opportunities for public discussion on this. 256 00:24:27,910 --> 00:24:30,490 So there will be a chance in the future for public to comment. 257 00:24:30,910 --> 00:24:41,830 And I also add that a lot of what's in this tree protection by law today should be in the tree management strategy that comes out in February. 258 00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:46,640 it's it's not this or that will be included inclusive thing. 259 00:24:49,640 --> 00:25:00,520 Thanks, Patrick. I have two clarifications and one you said individuals or companies 260 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:08,190 be fined per day. If a tree's cut down, what's the fine the next day? What is a... 261 00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:11,000 If they were continuing to cut down other trees. 262 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:28,820 And the second is exact definition because I've heard, you know, tree coming down to me is, is when it's locked and down on the ground, but we have numerous spots around Victoria now, my mind's gone. 263 00:25:28,820 --> 00:25:36,040 Thank for now that we have candlesticks just they can stay up there for months. The tree is 264 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:43,840 effectively gone theoretically you can be sprouting back but I mean that tree is still up and not 265 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:53,360 dropped. What's the line there? In the definition of tree cutting it doesn't require that the entire tree 266 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:59,120 be removed. It's anything, cutting what's likely to cause the death of the tree. So the 267 00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:05,180 full exfoliation or defoliation, whatever they call it, I guess, would, would, would 268 00:26:05,180 --> 00:26:10,520 cover that, uh, yeah, certain sense. And just adding to that, there's a second definition 269 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:15,780 called damage. And so damage might be living. It might be topping. It might be poisoning. 270 00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:20,680 It might be dumping things around the tree or anything that causes the tree to, to stop 271 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:29,510 growing. So, for the benefit of the public, but also to the line of your questioning, Mr. Mayor. 272 00:26:31,770 --> 00:26:35,870 This line is a top line by law. It's two pages in length, and when we were looking at other 273 00:26:35,870 --> 00:26:40,430 municipalities by laws, Victorian standards. For example, the Victoria's is 45 pages in length, 274 00:26:40,770 --> 00:26:47,370 their tree management by law. So, there are certainly lots of material that we'll be able to bring 275 00:26:47,370 --> 00:26:51,690 to you, that the public can be engaged with on how this can be more comprehensive, how this can be 276 00:26:51,690 --> 00:26:52,150 refined. 277 00:26:54,790 --> 00:26:59,750 This is the bare bones stop gap measure to send the message. And that's what 278 00:26:59,750 --> 00:27:05,030 I sort of figured is wanted to make sure. I believe Councillor Keith, you had a question? 279 00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:12,470 Yeah, just wondering if we have an idea for say our private residences who maybe have a potentially 280 00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:16,330 a danger tree or a tree on their own personal property they want to get rid of. What would 281 00:27:16,330 --> 00:27:21,230 be the process and potentially extra cost that they might then face due to this by-law. 282 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:29,050 So there is no extra cost. We were very careful about the by-law doesn't create a new set 283 00:27:29,050 --> 00:27:33,530 of bureaucratic rules or processes. It doesn't create a tree permitting process that a department 284 00:27:33,530 --> 00:27:39,690 has to manage. What the by-law allows is for trees to be removed as part of any permitting 285 00:27:39,690 --> 00:27:45,550 process that the city might have. So through a development permit process, through a building 286 00:27:45,550 --> 00:27:50,490 permit through a sewer connection permit. The list goes on and on and if a homeowner needed to 287 00:27:50,490 --> 00:27:54,230 take down or deal with the tree through a typical permit that they'd already be paying for 288 00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:58,390 and acquiring through the city we could insert the need to bring down the tree as part of that 289 00:27:58,390 --> 00:28:02,290 approval process of that permit without applying extra costs on that homeowner. 290 00:28:03,950 --> 00:28:05,510 Perfect, thank you. 291 00:28:08,220 --> 00:28:12,320 Dangerous trees, the only cost of course would be the certified arborist. 292 00:28:17,180 --> 00:28:18,480 Mary, do you have any questions? 293 00:28:20,910 --> 00:28:24,670 No, I think there was a good amount of clarification. 294 00:28:25,050 --> 00:28:25,630 Thank you for that. 295 00:28:28,990 --> 00:28:29,970 Anyone else have any further? 296 00:28:33,820 --> 00:28:34,020 Okay. 297 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,240 So no further discussion. 298 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,120 Braden, correct me on this. 299 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:44,440 But now we need to make a motion for the bylaw 2115 and 216. 300 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:46,120 Move the recommendation. 301 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,240 There's actually a four part resolution, 302 00:28:48,820 --> 00:28:51,560 one of which ideally would have a bit of council dialogue. 303 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:57,960 dialogue to fill in the blanks. Council or staff would recommend that we have a second 304 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:06,000 special council meeting prior to the holidays to adopt the by-laws so they can be adopted 305 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,160 in a timely manner. We have to wait a minimum of 24 hours between first three readings and adoptions 306 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,400 so the earliest of special council meeting could be happened would be say two o'clock tomorrow 307 00:29:15,780 --> 00:29:19,900 because of the snow council may wish to hold the special council meeting. 308 00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:26,300 Wednesday. If everybody's available, just to make sure that no staff and counsel at the 309 00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:29,560 weather is terrible tomorrow. We can't get in. We don't have to have the special counts meeting. 310 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:39,320 That would also give Donna and her team time. After this meeting, Donna is here. The thought was 311 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:45,680 Donna would put out a after talking to Americans and put out a media statement and communication 312 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:50,580 to all the tree cutting companies so that they had fair warning before the 313 00:29:50,580 --> 00:29:54,280 Bible was adopted. We'd likely take media questions this evening and into 314 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,800 tomorrow, but that would then if we didn't tell anybody until say Wednesday 315 00:29:58,800 --> 00:29:59,400 day after noon. 316 00:30:00,050 --> 00:30:02,790 The whole day's season to take media inquiries on this. 317 00:30:04,890 --> 00:30:16,070 So, with Councilor Staff would suggest a Wednesday meeting at some time, if everyone could pull up the calendars and then before that we would do a media and communication out? 318 00:30:20,420 --> 00:30:30,740 I do think that that sounds reasonable. I really appreciate the discretion at staff to approach the tree cutting companies ahead of time to inform them of this change. Thank you. 319 00:30:30,740 --> 00:30:36,380 I would be, yeah, I would support seeing something happen on Wednesday just because this is so urgent. 320 00:30:40,020 --> 00:30:47,060 And just to clarify, if we do push back the adoption of this to Wednesday, will there be another chance for public participation on it? 321 00:30:48,340 --> 00:30:51,160 Absolutely, the agenda would include a public participation. 322 00:30:51,780 --> 00:30:52,340 Perfect. Thank you. 323 00:30:55,190 --> 00:31:02,410 Is there anyone here on council that couldn't do Wednesday, either virtually or live or in person? 324 00:31:04,130 --> 00:31:06,270 I may need to zoom in, but I'm available. 325 00:31:07,310 --> 00:31:08,850 This depends what time of the day it is. 326 00:31:10,030 --> 00:31:11,290 Braden, I think you said too. 327 00:31:12,530 --> 00:31:15,510 Well, Wednesday is past the 24 hour marks, so we could do any time Wednesday. 328 00:31:16,130 --> 00:31:20,690 The downside of Wednesday, of course, is that council does hear from the public and wants 329 00:31:20,690 --> 00:31:22,230 to make changes based on what's heard. 330 00:31:22,670 --> 00:31:24,230 We would need to rescind and reread. 331 00:31:24,770 --> 00:31:30,350 First three readings, meaning that we would need another meeting to adopt on say Thursday. 332 00:31:32,250 --> 00:31:37,390 which is possible, but more and more staff and folks who might be heading off for the holidays and whatnot. 333 00:31:38,290 --> 00:31:40,630 So it might be a little more difficult. 334 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,320 Is there a timeframe for city staff that would be best, do you think? 335 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,400 We're wide open. We can work with council. 336 00:31:52,620 --> 00:31:52,740 Mark. 337 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,220 Yeah, one o'clock would be fine. 338 00:32:00,170 --> 00:32:00,610 That's really. 339 00:32:00,610 --> 00:32:01,170 Yeah. 340 00:32:01,970 --> 00:32:02,110 Yeah. 341 00:32:02,110 --> 00:32:04,370 Um, two 15 is probably the easiest. 342 00:32:04,630 --> 00:32:04,910 I could. 343 00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:07,010 Can you do two 15. 344 00:32:09,250 --> 00:32:13,430 Uh, well, yes, I could do two 15. 345 00:32:14,550 --> 00:32:21,700 We also, I mean, it may not sound fair, but to be fair, we also don't need quorum to adopt the bylaw. 346 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,460 So unless the last council feels that there's going to be a rigorous discussion. 347 00:32:25,140 --> 00:32:25,300 Great. 348 00:32:25,460 --> 00:32:27,060 We do already four folks here. 349 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:28,620 Sorry, Britain, are you preferring a morning? 350 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:29,980 No, we can do either. 351 00:32:32,910 --> 00:32:34,230 Two 15 is okay for you. 352 00:32:34,890 --> 00:32:40,810 Yeah, that would be best. Yeah, but if we need to make magic happen earlier, then I'll just do it. 353 00:32:42,370 --> 00:32:43,690 And it's serious for you. 354 00:32:44,870 --> 00:32:48,350 Well, I just, I have a, no, I know, I know you normally work so. 355 00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:52,810 Well, no, this is my wake off. It's just I have a physical point from 11 to 1230. 356 00:32:53,050 --> 00:32:57,930 Okay. So if we want to do it at nine in the morning, I could be here for nine and earlier. 357 00:32:58,210 --> 00:33:01,110 Are you available earlier in the day? 358 00:33:06,350 --> 00:33:06,750 Yeah, 359 00:33:09,270 --> 00:33:17,290 I could make 230 work. I had other plans in the afternoon for a toy drive, but, yeah, I could be here at 230. 360 00:33:23,610 --> 00:33:25,390 That's good for me. I work until two. 361 00:33:26,010 --> 00:33:35,350 Okay, I appreciate this like right before Christmas that this is in Kenji not a lot of schedules. 362 00:33:36,670 --> 00:33:38,310 Darin, you're not even going to be in the city. 363 00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:48,170 So, but I think just want to make sure we don't push something through and I don't like the term push something through. 364 00:33:48,190 --> 00:33:53,610 But if we don't get this going, then there's a lot of time before we can do it again. 365 00:33:54,510 --> 00:33:59,210 And on that note, we could do a virtual meeting with only a couple of folks here tomorrow. 366 00:33:59,870 --> 00:34:03,830 Say it to 30 or three and allow for the Wednesday in case there are further changes to the 367 00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:04,210 by-law. 368 00:34:05,530 --> 00:34:10,390 If Council is concerned about making amendments tomorrow on the fly-up, can we hear from the 369 00:34:10,390 --> 00:34:10,630 public? 370 00:34:13,770 --> 00:34:21,050 I'm back all this week because I've been away for two weeks, so it's more year-guises schedules. 371 00:34:21,050 --> 00:34:26,190 I think I'm going to make the motion so we can actually discuss this. 372 00:34:28,650 --> 00:34:34,950 So I would move that Council provide first, second, and third reading of bylaw 2115, a 373 00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:38,850 bylaw to prohibit the cutting of trees as drafted and provide first, second, and third 374 00:34:38,850 --> 00:34:44,190 reading of district of Langford's Ticket Information Authoration bylaw, as described and direct 375 00:34:44,190 --> 00:34:49,650 staff to provide notice of a special meeting of Council to be discussed because this is 376 00:34:49,650 --> 00:34:56,210 a motion for Wednesday, the 21st of December at approximately 2.15pm or 2.30pm in order to 377 00:34:56,210 --> 00:35:01,070 adopt the by-law and direct staff to include in the list of Council's options for any property 378 00:35:01,070 --> 00:35:05,970 that's proceeded with tree removal without benefit of a permit and seeking rezoning compensatory 379 00:35:05,970 --> 00:35:09,050 payments for tree loss for Council's consideration. 380 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,740 I'll second that. We have a motion on board 381 00:35:14,740 --> 00:35:17,240 from Lillian, seconded by Keith, 382 00:35:20,330 --> 00:35:24,270 and just for clarification, that was for 230 on Wednesday. 383 00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:31,460 Any discussion? 384 00:35:34,530 --> 00:35:43,890 I guess I'm just concerned if I realize you wanted to do some media and informing the 385 00:35:43,890 --> 00:35:52,070 three companies on the Tuesday. I'm just not sure we can, is it better? It's fine if it is. 386 00:35:52,070 --> 00:36:00,290 I'm available Wednesday, but is it better to put it off to a Wednesday or is it better to do say 2-30 on Tuesday so that in case of 387 00:36:00,290 --> 00:36:06,190 You know getting closer closer to the holidays to have the time after the meeting be 388 00:36:07,530 --> 00:36:10,390 In case something goes wrong. I don't know how we're outage 389 00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:13,010 I'm just wondering if there's other complications to consider 390 00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:16,910 Or is it isn't much better to wait for Wednesday then to do Tuesday? 391 00:36:22,290 --> 00:36:28,670 So I want to clarify, Braden, or Darren, because you guys are the experts on the legal side of it. 392 00:36:30,090 --> 00:36:31,070 I think the 393 00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:50,920 reason I'm hesitating is, if we end up meeting a Thursday will be the one day over the whole holidays, where if we need a special council meeting, we'll need to pull Marie in from vacation. 394 00:36:52,940 --> 00:37:00,220 I'll be in transit and Marie will is prepared to come in, if needed. 395 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,320 Other than that, I can support the corporate services duties remotely. 396 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,920 But the Thursday is the one transit day that staff would need to rely on Marie. 397 00:37:09,020 --> 00:37:09,500 But we can do that. 398 00:37:12,740 --> 00:37:15,880 My only hesitant on Tuesday is just. 399 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,880 We have no idea what is going to be like. 400 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:21,800 And 401 00:37:24,330 --> 00:37:28,290 as long as we have enough people in here and then the rest virtually. 402 00:37:35,460 --> 00:37:39,580 Well, council, here's your last chance to decide if we think Tuesday. 403 00:37:40,340 --> 00:37:48,840 Make change at eight to Tuesday or keep Wednesday and cross your fingers that nothing major is going to come up that we need to really rewrite things and. 404 00:37:51,060 --> 00:37:56,640 Councilor Gary, you've had his hand up a while ago, and I don't want to hit that to be forgotten. 405 00:37:58,380 --> 00:38:02,120 Yeah, I'm just going to mention, I mean, respecting definitely staff holidays and all of that. 406 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:07,140 I do believe that Wednesday may be better just to be able to give that notification out to the tree 407 00:38:07,140 --> 00:38:12,400 companies and to the public so that we can, it's still tight, but at least have more notification to 408 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,540 the public for those who do maybe want to come and speak to it. I know that puts us on a crunch 409 00:38:16,540 --> 00:38:21,460 year, but I think that's probably the more responsible thing to do for the public's sake. 410 00:38:25,130 --> 00:38:28,890 Yeah, thanks, and I just just to speak more on that because we're talking about an afternoon 411 00:38:28,890 --> 00:38:34,670 meeting. Not a lot of the public is going to be able to make it. I would like to have an evening 412 00:38:34,670 --> 00:38:40,890 for the public to be able to contact, ask questions, give feedback, and lure the fact that there's 413 00:38:40,890 --> 00:38:44,370 probably a lot of people that probably won't be able to participate in an afternoon meeting. 414 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,240 So you're wanting a Wednesday night meeting? 415 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:59,600 No, I'm wanting a Wednesday meeting instead of a Tuesday meeting so that we have the opportunity to hear from the public and get the way in. 416 00:39:03,290 --> 00:39:09,470 I just want to clarify bring you said we could do this meeting virtually. Everybody could do it virtually on Tuesday. Is that correct? 417 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,020 I'm hesitating because I don't have my procedure by law in front of me. 418 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,160 I want to confirm with you. 419 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:25,320 Yeah, I think staff feel that Wednesday would be the best for several reasons. 420 00:39:25,660 --> 00:39:31,540 I mean, I agree with Councillor Gary that it will give you guys an evening to hear 421 00:39:31,540 --> 00:39:33,700 from the public if that's important. 422 00:39:34,580 --> 00:39:37,860 And then, procedurally, I think Wednesday makes most sense. 423 00:39:38,180 --> 00:39:41,740 So if Council is comfortable with that, I think that's staff's recommendation. 424 00:39:43,850 --> 00:39:51,990 Okay, unless there is significant against the date that Councilor Spock has put forward. 425 00:39:53,950 --> 00:40:00,910 Let's have a vote on that as she wrote it, including 230 on Wednesday, the 21st. 426 00:40:00,930 --> 00:40:01,210 Correct. 427 00:40:02,310 --> 00:40:02,710 Okay. 428 00:40:03,250 --> 00:40:04,470 All those in favor? 429 00:40:08,010 --> 00:40:09,890 I also support this. 430 00:40:10,670 --> 00:40:11,090 Okay. 431 00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:12,150 That's unanimous. 432 00:40:12,350 --> 00:40:13,510 So that motion is carried. 433 00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:15,590 Mayor Gibbons and I could interrupt. 434 00:40:15,590 --> 00:40:21,990 I just wanted to acknowledge that there was somebody online who had put their hand up after public participation. 435 00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:27,730 I don't know who they are because they've identified as themselves as S21 Ultra, which is the name of a phone, of course. 436 00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:40,430 But to the person who does have their hand up online, please don't hesitate to contact Mary Council or staff in between the two meetings and know that there'll be an opportunity for public participation on Wednesday and know that we did see your hand. 437 00:40:40,430 --> 00:40:43,050 It just came up after the public participation portion of this meeting. 438 00:40:47,330 --> 00:40:48,970 I hope up there you hear that. 439 00:40:53,690 --> 00:41:00,130 So that is by law 4.1 has written and read as passed. 440 00:41:01,310 --> 00:41:06,270 I'm sorry. I believe it's 5.1 with the correction at the beginning of the council meeting. 441 00:41:08,580 --> 00:41:09,200 5.1. 442 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,640 Yeah. Thank you. 443 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:20,760 So then item six would be the in-camera resolution. 444 00:41:25,580 --> 00:41:30,820 I'll move that council close the meeting to the public pursuant to section 91i of the 445 00:41:30,820 --> 00:41:35,320 community charter to consider the receipt of advice that is subject to solicitor client 446 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,660 privilege, including communications necessary for that purpose. 447 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:40,040 Seconded. 448 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:43,400 Any discussion? 449 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:45,720 All those in favor? 450 00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:49,670 No opposed? 451 00:41:51,790 --> 00:41:52,490 Motion carried. 452 00:41:56,580 --> 00:41:59,040 So, correct me if I'm wrong, that ends.