1 00:00:14,719 --> 00:00:21,439 Good. >> All right. Um, I'd like to call this 2 00:00:19,279 --> 00:00:28,400 meeting of the planning commission to order. It's Wednesday, August 5th at 3 00:00:23,519 --> 00:00:32,960 7:01 p.m. Um, I'm Elizabeth Saul. I am subbing in for our chair Allison Miller 4 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:39,480 is the chair of this meeting. Uh first item on the agenda is a roll call. So 5 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,480 Elizabeth Amanda 6 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:48,719 » and I see online we have James Whitesides. 7 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:56,440 » Yep. James Whitides. >> Great. Um and I think that the five of 8 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,440 us constituted four. Is that correct? 9 00:00:56,879 --> 00:01:05,199 All right. Next item on the agenda is to review and approve the July 1st, 2026 10 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:11,600 meeting minutes. If everybody had a chance to verily review the minutes, 11 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:16,035 single page, I move to um 12 00:01:14,015 --> 00:01:16,035 [clears throat] 13 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:29,600 a second. Uh oh, we have five. All right, go to five then. 14 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:35,840 Okay. All those in favor, I I opposed. All right, the item passes. And here we 15 00:01:32,799 --> 00:01:42,079 are at the top of our meeting. Uh the public hearing on the 2026 comprehensive 16 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:47,520 plan. So I'm going to get to my things to the script. 17 00:01:44,079 --> 00:01:57,200 Um, so I'd like to open the public hearing uh at 7:03 p.m. um on August 18 00:01:54,240 --> 00:02:03,119 5th. The purpose of this public hearing is to approve the comprehensive plan 19 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:10,239 periodic update for 2026. We'll turn it over to Maggie B for the 20 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:16,640 staff report and recommendation. Right. I'm gonna go ahead and share screen 21 00:02:12,319 --> 00:02:22,680 here. I have uh tries to put together a little presentation uh or I'd love your 22 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:29,560 hopefully everyone online that 23 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:36,080 James can you see that I'm ready to share. 24 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,080 » Yep. >> Okay. 25 00:02:36,879 --> 00:02:41,680 » We can see it. >> Okay. I'll try since we don't have a ton 26 00:02:40,239 --> 00:02:45,760 of people online, but this since this is for the record and it's for the comp 27 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:51,280 plan, I just want to walk through even a document. Um, what I did was try to go 28 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:56,959 through kind of the the big picture um using some of the slides that are the 29 00:02:53,360 --> 00:03:04,879 that consultants have provided to us um and kind of merge everything into one 30 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:09,760 comprehensive uh overview. So, um, not going to touch on everything, but, uh, 31 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:13,959 the staff report packet kind of has the overall summary as well. 32 00:03:14,239 --> 00:03:21,200 So, um, for tonight's hearing, I just kind of wanted to briefly go over the 33 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:25,760 the why. Um, this is my mandated process. Um, we'll go over some of the 34 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:31,040 growth allocation and the planning process for 24 and six. some major 35 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:36,480 changes to the plan. We might find out the big brand element we have um how we 36 00:03:34,959 --> 00:03:40,840 are going to give and stand 37 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:50,080 way too much stuff on my screen here. I'm sorry I can't. 38 00:03:48,239 --> 00:03:54,319 All right, so why are we here? The state law requires it. So GMA requires all 39 00:03:52,400 --> 00:04:00,480 cities periodically review and update their comp plan. So here we are. uh 10 40 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:06,879 years from now will be clear again. Uh it is maintain the pretty much the same 41 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:11,680 structure as our 2021 plan but been substantially rewritten reorganized and 42 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:17,120 expanded throughout the chapters. As you are all well aware of our statuto 43 00:04:13,599 --> 00:04:22,240 deadline for December 31st of this year reason we're here today because we also 44 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:27,360 have the regulations that correspond with each regulation. So, uh, this is 45 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:32,240 kind of the first step in that process. Uh, 46 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:38,919 and so we're hoping to get this moving forward to be council next month 47 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,919 next month. 48 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:47,040 Sorry guys. Um, so quickly we went through a lot of 49 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:52,000 public engagement dating back to 2024 when we started the raing workshops. Um 50 00:04:50,240 --> 00:05:00,080 those kind of were to kick off this whole process and we have four different 51 00:04:54,320 --> 00:05:08,040 workshops all four followed by five plus community outreach event that we did 52 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:08,040 tonight fair community block party 53 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:17,440 a couple online surveys for how the parks and red and then how specific to 54 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:23,400 find the element by 55 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,400 um and respect all 56 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:37,440 as far as the timeline uh we've just prepared and issued the checklist at the 57 00:05:32,479 --> 00:05:46,479 end of March March 26 March 2026 sorry um and then we also issued 60-day notice 58 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:50,560 before required by law and issue between April 59 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:56,720 the foundation um their comment period we went through 60 00:05:53,120 --> 00:06:03,960 and did not have any file. So that went through very smoothly. Um we published 61 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,960 our meeting and that 62 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:19,440 um again this is the hearing or the drive recommendation. We're not 63 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:25,919 a recommendation to the council. Um and so we do have the ability to 64 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:31,840 change it and be able to get some public feedback 65 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:37,120 um with the goal of in September adopting the plan. I do think when I 66 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:42,400 originally did this we were shooting from September 8th. They actually got 67 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:48,319 pushed to September 22nd. So there is 68 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:53,680 that so keeps us on track. Um, as far as planning, we're going out to 246. We 69 00:06:50,960 --> 00:07:01,759 have that population target for the city plus our growth area about 3,539. 70 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:07,120 That adds approx 410 residents and for additional housing 71 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:13,120 units of about 365. Um 72 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:16,960 overall looking at the inventory um and the pandemic and then under 73 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:22,080 underutilized land um it did show that we had capacity for that growth and we 74 00:07:20,479 --> 00:07:28,479 wouldn't have to adjust our urban growth boundary. Um we would have accommodate 75 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:32,800 without expanding. Um and because of our population size, we do not have to 76 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:38,400 address the mandatory housing density provisions, but we are okay with some of 77 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:44,720 those um uh big goals and policies to achieve 78 00:07:41,199 --> 00:07:51,840 some housing um initiative just by choice and not by handling. 79 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:58,400 It's really awesome. Um so what's changing plan and why did revise uh nine 80 00:07:54,879 --> 00:08:04,080 chapters and then uh and we have the one brand new climate resilience element. Um 81 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:07,599 what was interesting is the number of goals if you remember how much time 82 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:14,560 planning was originally the number of goals that we basically doubled. Um we 83 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:22,080 added a more consistent numbering format and then um we do have that ready. 84 00:08:18,639 --> 00:08:25,720 Um so there's just not required optional 85 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:36,000 um I don't know how much I need to get into 86 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:41,120 this huge uh group here but um climate resilience we were required to address 87 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:47,360 address um really what we've done into the facility fairness and environment. 88 00:08:44,959 --> 00:08:53,920 Uh so we were looking really at those hazards like wildfire, snow flooding, 89 00:08:50,000 --> 00:09:01,200 extreme heat drought, snow that loss, we added that severe storms as kind of home 90 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:08,640 right after those. So um that was a great thing to add um because that is 91 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:13,680 becoming a reality for us. Um and then uh just looking at our the equitable 92 00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:19,680 access to find the information uh and decision making for all residents. Um 93 00:09:17,839 --> 00:09:24,399 there's a separate female staff reduction set and that applies to cities 94 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:30,519 that are over 6,000 in population. So if you didn't follow it under that 95 00:09:27,519 --> 00:09:30,519 that 96 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:42,120 we did choose to create a single element but we did incorporate that was like 97 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:42,120 throughout the cont. 98 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:54,800 Um the housing we went home just two goals um down to six goals. In our 99 00:09:52,160 --> 00:10:00,240 current plan, we added new policies, new barriers. We added um plans for 100 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:05,760 emergency as far as housing, new workforce housing goals and 101 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,760 still addressing 102 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:20,480 people. Um we expanded to build housing policies and that was again as a place. 103 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:26,800 Um just some numbers through here. our additional housing units. We did again 104 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:34,399 361. We went in and did that deep dive of if we were to um how's our works 105 00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:40,959 um what kind of housing plan would that be? So I added that number here um 106 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:46,800 635 um and you'll see that I plan on the 107 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:52,160 extra pages I need and I do have 108 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:56,000 question about that additional analysis of 109 00:10:54,079 --> 00:11:00,240 you know what how how many people will be 110 00:10:57,519 --> 00:11:04,800 how how many more how student how's everyone who works here and just a 111 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:12,320 different kind of analysis for what looking at. So um to look at is that 112 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:16,040 through 61 what we strive for 113 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,320 look at there's some analys 114 00:11:27,839 --> 00:11:37,320 which is kind of shows you a big reason why 115 00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:37,320 it's income Um 116 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:52,240 here. So uh with our land we uh we have nine goals. Uh we added longer 117 00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:59,000 sustainable building design. Um added more climate resilience um 118 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,000 reference 119 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:05,800 extensions. Sorry to go ask whe 120 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:33,360 elements um around those relation 121 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:40,240 Um and then uh transportation 122 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:45,920 reorganized that added a new wildfire operation coordination bill. Um added a 123 00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:51,800 new standalone parking and move that from another element 124 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,800 where it was more 125 00:12:54,720 --> 00:13:01,920 where it should have belonged. Um and then we did retain that level of service 126 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:08,639 after the same as we've had. Um and then again US student remains death from uh 127 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:12,200 state highway. We talk a lot about that services still 128 00:13:14,639 --> 00:13:21,519 did expand from one goal to five. We were we did a lot of work through this 129 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:25,839 as we work through our utility element. I think we addressed a lot of the the 130 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:30,240 questions. Um 131 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:36,240 uh grass wildfire related utility 132 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:39,639 shut off energy resilient 133 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:49,320 economic development elements. Um we added another 134 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,320 mining 135 00:13:49,519 --> 00:14:01,000 strategy there. Um there was also notes about the the 136 00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:01,000 production and number of the we had or 137 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:10,079 um and then uh yeah part 138 00:14:07,839 --> 00:14:16,000 it was down and then park really expanded along with 139 00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:20,959 our post and that was adopted last month council that we incorporated into this 140 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:28,399 larger expans ethics. Um it stands 141 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:34,079 and um started our safety private collaboration. 142 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:39,079 Um talked about how our Spanish visitors have really impacted our harms as well. 143 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:48,720 Overall just with uh how how we have complied with state law as far as our 144 00:14:45,279 --> 00:14:53,040 review deadline our um adoption or corporate climate element the housing 145 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:57,519 element requirements um state 146 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:05,040 participation plan and then our new um and so there's 147 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:09,760 phone through which is a lot more detailed um and I know this is just high 148 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:17,920 level one I try to write a lot of stuff Um but uh we are recommending approval 149 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:23,000 of this. um we have listed back but like all those corrections things like that 150 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,000 obvious 151 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:31,760 and we can still make recommendation because whatever but tonight um we would 152 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:35,880 recommend that that you 153 00:15:37,199 --> 00:15:45,760 approving it to reounce recommending approval from city council. 154 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:50,880 Yes. um as drafted and then including any drafts that you may have that we 155 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:56,800 would attach that um we did receive one public art that I 156 00:15:54,480 --> 00:16:03,120 for you all. I don't know if everyone had time to look at that 157 00:15:59,279 --> 00:16:06,240 and watch your emails. I didn't copies. Um 158 00:16:04,079 --> 00:16:12,320 » I think those are really bad >> and we we did we'll go over it. Um 159 00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:19,399 we'd like some state regulations and we can kind of talk about it if you have 160 00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:19,399 questions. Um anyone didn't get it 161 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:25,480 or decision tonight. 162 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:35,480 But really they had some just uh comments on the land use settlements. Um 163 00:16:37,759 --> 00:16:41,720 immigration housing 164 00:16:42,079 --> 00:16:49,240 » they had some comments but should we speak on now 165 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:56,880 recommendations? I think I am sorry I just want to make 166 00:16:55,519 --> 00:17:01,360 sure I got on the record that they did that we did receive this last time you 167 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:03,440 discussed it. Um and then we discussed that 168 00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:11,640 » that is the only public comment I received aside from comments from the 169 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:11,640 the concludes my presc 170 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:22,559 if there are questions I as far as process um I I think now we open it up 171 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:28,160 to no first we ask if there's any questions to the staff what it says here 172 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:32,200 oh questions of the staff regarding process or 173 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,360 » I don't 174 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:46,520 mean James um I have questions 175 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:56,240 um regarding process and I I sent them in to Celeste and you like late last 176 00:17:53,679 --> 00:18:05,200 week so I understand you guys didn't have too much time to review 177 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:13,360 some of them um like things like that which hopefully we can resolve. Yeah. 178 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:20,120 » And then some of them were uh I'm trying to find my email. 179 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:20,120 There we go. Um 180 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:31,120 okay. Um, 181 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:36,559 one of my questions was about um, GMA requirements and the the funding 182 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:43,760 requirements for for GMA that they be funded in order to appear in here. We 183 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:49,440 have several TBD funings in the in the plan. Yeah, that's okay. We did discuss 184 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:54,799 that. Okay. with um the public department about it and it's pretty fun 185 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:58,480 that I can find that and the department of commerce have not they've seen this 186 00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:02,799 they've looked through the red draft and they they give us some feedback but not 187 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:07,919 not all that um that we have incorporated and so um from my 188 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:13,200 understanding it's fine to have that in there the way that it's 189 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:19,600 for the department conference we're not going to get things or any 190 00:19:16,559 --> 00:19:25,120 Um, okay. That's not what it says in code, but I 191 00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:31,280 as long as fine with it, that's great. The other uh one I had a question about 192 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:35,360 was about the the to see between the transportation elements, transportation 193 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:40,480 improvement plan, the capital facilities element. I know that and I I dug deep 194 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:47,520 into some reds. I got into a deep black hole of 195 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:52,160 online food on Friday. Um, and it looks like we have a history of approving the 196 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:56,960 transportation improvement plan in like this spring in order to be able to 197 00:19:54,000 --> 00:20:03,039 submit it. Uh, we could submit it by August 1st and I don't think we did that 198 00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:08,559 this year. I saw a record of just got adopted. I saw that it got there was 199 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:14,799 a hearing on it but not not a hearing sorry a study session where it got 200 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:22,320 presented almost. I will but anyone can get back 201 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:27,039 and I have money is just whatever. Yeah, because the 202 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:30,799 money I mean the year the money is spent sometimes that would be weird like when 203 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:35,760 you receive the money you spend the money and I understand that that 204 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:39,360 but the total dollars amounts being different and the project must be 205 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:46,640 different and so the adopted change that we're 206 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:53,440 going to put in the but 207 00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:57,679 we have right there but so look at and make sure they make adjustments to 208 00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:03,280 the language for consistency. 209 00:20:59,919 --> 00:21:10,480 But the tip that was adopted, do we have is that what was in the plan or 210 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:14,320 I sent them? >> All right, 211 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,320 cool. Um, 212 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:26,559 my actual question. Uh, all right. 213 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:33,039 Let's go. Uh, we can now open this for public comment. 214 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:38,480 Do we have anybody see person? So, 215 00:21:35,919 --> 00:21:44,320 » um, I was just gonna sit in. So, I know this is coming to council. It's not, you 216 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:47,679 know, going on. Um I do have 217 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:51,360 so at this point >> if you state your name. 218 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,960 » Oh yeah. >> You need me to go somewhere. Is this 219 00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:55,200 okay? >> Right there we are. 220 00:21:54,080 --> 00:22:00,799 » I can hear you. >> See Christ 583. 221 00:21:58,559 --> 00:22:09,840 Um I think that uh referencing RC's 3 RC3 222 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:16,960 is the lighter. Um, I think they have some legitimate concerns. Um, I don't 223 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:21,919 really know how to address those. I think I got the gist that they were 224 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:29,039 concerned about the density issue which [clears throat] 225 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:34,159 has always been there and how to um balance that with the state requirement 226 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:40,000 allows you know um use to come in. Um, 227 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:45,280 so I guess my concern is that 228 00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:50,320 there's no there's no safeguard to keeping those 229 00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:56,559 ADUs even though part of the process was 230 00:22:54,640 --> 00:23:01,440 increase the number of supplies so you have a better chance of affordable 231 00:22:57,919 --> 00:23:05,520 housing when actually what it very likely happened and has some cases to 232 00:23:03,919 --> 00:23:10,000 say some lower price than being bought out 233 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:16,000 for second home. So, how do you do how do you control 234 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:22,159 that? You don't. I don't. But that is a that's kind of an unintended consequence 235 00:23:17,919 --> 00:23:25,440 of providing just lower smaller lower price 236 00:23:23,919 --> 00:23:31,760 and I've been aware of that all the way along. That was one of my concerns with 237 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:38,159 that. But how do we if it's public property you don't have any control on 238 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:43,280 but that you know it just sort of I know that's happening so that for now it's 239 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:47,880 public >> all right thank you we have anybody 240 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,880 online 241 00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:56,559 so I'm just here 242 00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:02,480 » all right Marco please provide your name and address and make your 243 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:08,880 » Sure. Um, my name is Marco Aurelio. I live at 149 West Benton Street and uh 244 00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:14,799 I'd just like to comment on the um the density issue and housing in general. I 245 00:24:12,159 --> 00:24:21,039 know there's a mandate in the uh in the comprehensive plan to include housing 246 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:25,840 for workforce. I saw the 80% of the uh average median income in that. So since 247 00:24:23,919 --> 00:24:30,799 the Widner group has been building in Levvenworth from the behind Safeway 248 00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:36,559 which we still had a comprehensive plan at that time and now the new the new 249 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:42,640 development by uh the reindeer farm there on Chumstick that equals 580 plus 250 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:47,679 units. Okay, that's about the biggest density Levvenworth has ever experienced 251 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:52,960 in its entire existence and represents a 40% growth in Levvenworth. And I had 252 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:58,159 made a motion when I was on city council to impose uh inclusionary housing, which 253 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:03,279 is a Washington state law I think you're all familiar with in that growth. And it 254 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:09,600 would have represented the largest increase if we had imposed 10 or 20% of 255 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:15,360 that mandated workforce housing would have represented the largest workforce 256 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:21,360 housing or even affordable housing in the history of Levvenore. And I'm 257 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,360 curious why that never happened. 258 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:31,600 When I made the motion, it was rejected by council. But why didn't the planning 259 00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:36,799 commission support imposing workforce housing exclusionary policy on the 260 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:40,880 widener committee, the widener development group, telling them they had 261 00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:46,600 to build workforce housing or they can't build in in love as a percentage of 262 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:46,600 their growth? 263 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:56,640 » Uh, thank you for your comment, Marco. Do we have anybody else online? 264 00:25:52,640 --> 00:26:02,400 Um I I have Dory and Dorothy, if you want to speak, I can 265 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:06,159 allow you to talk and uh you want to unmute yourself and then state your 266 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:09,960 name, address, I'll give you a few seconds. 267 00:26:11,919 --> 00:26:19,840 » Hi. Um can you hear me? >> Yeah, we can hear you. 268 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:28,159 » Okay. Um, my name's Dorothy Johnston. I live at 10404 Eagle Creek Road. 269 00:26:24,159 --> 00:26:33,600 And um, I just was um, listening in to make sure that the comment letter uh, 270 00:26:31,039 --> 00:26:40,880 written and submitted by residents coalition of Chalan County RC3 that that 271 00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:47,200 had been received and that everyone had a chance to review that. And I 272 00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:52,080 appreciate um um that some of the folks have actually read that and are 273 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:59,960 commenting on it. That's pretty much all that I have right now. 274 00:26:55,039 --> 00:26:59,960 » Thank you, Dorothy. Anybody else? 275 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:14,600 » TC, would you like to make a comment? So state your name, your address. 276 00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:29,279 All right, we'll assume that you do not wish to speak. Uh 277 00:27:27,039 --> 00:27:35,520 you're not muted. Um all right. Well, we are going to then close public comment. 278 00:27:32,799 --> 00:27:40,000 Uh public comment is still at this time. Um all right, commission. Is there any 279 00:27:37,679 --> 00:27:45,039 discussion or motion on the recommendation of 280 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:49,799 plan to 281 00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:49,799 fix 282 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:07,520 I if the the comments that particularly influen 283 00:28:04,799 --> 00:28:14,159 are interesting to me because it feels as if me and the council here in the 284 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:18,799 last 12 months have touched on really all of these items sometimes in deep 285 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:24,080 discussion and had 286 00:28:21,679 --> 00:28:30,240 had there been uh approval of our minutes or 287 00:28:28,159 --> 00:28:34,000 action, you know, the people here from the RC3 actually, you know, listening to 288 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:38,640 what was happening in council meetings. I think so much of this has been touched 289 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:43,520 on. Yes, there's some great ideas here, but it feels like great ideas coming 290 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:48,640 from an area where we have put in some serious time and effort already. And so 291 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:52,559 I I well I don't disagree with some of the things that they're saying in here. 292 00:28:50,000 --> 00:29:00,399 I feel like that uh the commission has torn over quite a few of these items and 293 00:28:56,559 --> 00:29:06,320 you know the ideas of um that are put forth in here while you know very good 294 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,960 are feel a little old in and I'm you know I haven't been on the commission 295 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:14,799 for too long but we've discussed a lot of these items uh multiple times and in 296 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:19,919 them and so this I struggled with these comments only because I feel like had 297 00:29:17,679 --> 00:29:23,440 anybody from the RC3 been president in any of our meetings, they would have 298 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:27,039 really heard some deep and thoughtful discussion about the subtitles as 299 00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:31,039 opposed to kind of putting them on us like late in the thing some like as 300 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,320 something we missed when I feel a lot of these things, not all of them by any 301 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:40,880 means, but a lot of these things were things that this commission has not only 302 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:44,799 looked over but thought through and so I just wanted to, you know, make sure that 303 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:52,240 everyone knows that these are items that we have not only looked at but in depth 304 00:29:48,159 --> 00:29:58,080 and I understand why there might be some frustrations as to where 305 00:29:55,679 --> 00:30:03,279 our recommendations are going as opposed to what may have been said by the 306 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:07,919 community in the 2024 forum or a lot of other items of fear. But, you know, I 307 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:15,279 just although I hear them, I feel like, you know, he me, not just me, but 308 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:19,919 together have really gone gone over a lot of. 309 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:24,399 And I just want to put it out there that I feel like we have not not covered 310 00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:30,159 everything, but, you know, taken an in-depth look at a lot of. 311 00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:35,840 » Yeah, that's a really uh thoughtful point, and I I wanted to address a 312 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:42,880 couple of things. But they did bring up that maybe they're not there. Um like 313 00:30:39,679 --> 00:30:48,559 like the the whole idea of of a you know neighborhood feel or keeping things like 314 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:52,399 they are now is is not we can't do that. We're going to have by the Department of 315 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:56,799 Commerce to take those languages out of our thought because it it creates 316 00:30:54,480 --> 00:31:00,080 barrier for people that are trying to build something a little more 317 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:04,480 affordable. And so we have to balance all of these things together. We have to 318 00:31:01,919 --> 00:31:09,520 balance like the parks and the housing and our our commercial zones and it's 319 00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:12,320 all like the tourism like it is all you know sometimes they they pull against 320 00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:16,799 each other. um can look like we're not missing when 321 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:24,320 we you know we really are like you were saying it's it's um it's a it's a 322 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:29,840 balance and I I think we've spent a lot of time um trying to figure out figure I 323 00:31:27,679 --> 00:31:32,960 think you guys hour to hour 324 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:40,640 » I I think that we need to be very careful when we do try to preserve a 325 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:46,080 neighborhood's character Um because 326 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:53,120 often preserving a neighborhood character is preserving the racial 327 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:58,320 makeup of that neighborhood which is not what we want. want to be 328 00:31:56,399 --> 00:32:05,039 more inclusionary, whether it is 329 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:12,240 of other races other than white and Asian uh or um 330 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:21,120 you know different abilities uh different income levels. Um, so 331 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:27,760 yes, we need to be able to offer housing that is affordable to people who earn 332 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:36,159 different incomes. And doing that is offering different 333 00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:39,159 options of housing. And part of that is also 334 00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:50,399 doing housing that is smaller or or just different options. 335 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:55,279 And so we just we do want to be more inclusion. We want 336 00:32:52,559 --> 00:33:02,960 to make certain that all of our neighbors are welcome in our food. 337 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:07,360 Absolutely. And I know that one of the other things I mentioned withinary 338 00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:13,120 zoning and I don't think that the comp plan now sort of us doing that. It's not 339 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:18,159 it's not like we're not allowing it. It's just I know that the mayor has 340 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:23,840 talked about it a lot. It's um it is very difficult in a town size um to get 341 00:33:23,279 --> 00:33:28,960 something. >> I would say we're exploring lots of 342 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:35,559 different ways to require the inclus of affordable housing 343 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,559 in our council 344 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,760 the one specific option. 345 00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:44,519 » Yeah. 346 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:53,519 » See, that's precisely to say I I just want I just want the 347 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:57,679 constituency to know and understand that like not only have we looked at a lot of 348 00:33:55,519 --> 00:34:02,000 these things, we have looked at every angle to try to figure out a good way to 349 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:06,480 include these things and bring them into the comp plan to bring them into the 350 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:11,440 vision of where Dworth is headed. You know, and if you would review our 351 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:15,200 minutes, you'll see you can really see what we have done or what we have 352 00:34:13,359 --> 00:34:20,560 discussed and where you know what avenues we have looked at which it feels 353 00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:24,960 to be a lot of a lot of the different things to to you know to address some of 354 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:31,000 the huge needs which are you know brought out and some for sure. there 355 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,000 just, you know, 356 00:34:31,359 --> 00:34:38,240 feels like it's been as in in a lot of in in a lot of what I 357 00:34:37,359 --> 00:34:42,560 see. >> I'll just refer to one other thing that 358 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:48,960 I, you know, based on the like community feel and listen, I feel like well, 359 00:34:45,839 --> 00:34:53,119 there's an offsides. I feel like some of these comments that are brought 360 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:56,720 in here are talking about wanting to be, you know, closer with our neighbors, 361 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,760 which actually if you have density, you have more neighbors, you can be more 362 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:07,280 close. So, like I that's like the sort of comment that I would, right? But um 363 00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:14,079 and I I think that you've done a lot in our design uh you have designed for 364 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:19,200 triplexes and multi multi-unit um buildings to 365 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:24,640 research from many different places. ask the public at, you know, you guys had 366 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:29,440 staff had a a great display at uh one of the community open houses and received a 367 00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:35,200 lot of feedback there and then sort of revamped our our design requirements as 368 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:38,160 far >> resial 369 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:42,960 design standards. Thank you for the direct title. Um we had several meetings 370 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:48,000 about that. So, I refer to that uh those those meetings those updated uh design 371 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:53,280 requirements which hopefully both balance the the the need to house young 372 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:58,720 people or accommodate young people in our communities while also making sure 373 00:35:55,839 --> 00:36:03,839 that we um feel cohesive in the community and that the community doesn't 374 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:07,560 the built community doesn't feel out of line. Um 375 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:19,680 um you know neighbors neighborhoods themselves 376 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:26,240 in my neighborhood um we have had two community events within the last month. 377 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:31,240 We had a backyard uh concert theme and then 378 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:41,680 um and then we had um you know a neighborhood barbecue. 379 00:36:37,359 --> 00:36:48,000 That is a part of how neighborhoods bring neighbors together. So what it 380 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:53,040 takes then is actual neighbors doing that 381 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:59,359 and that's not the plan but 382 00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:03,440 that is you know something that neighbors need to take responsibility 383 00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:08,320 for themselves. All right. Um do we have any discussion 384 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:16,200 um not related necessarily to the comments that we received but just about 385 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:16,200 the plan and of itself or the motion 386 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:27,440 James has his hands up and sorry James doesn't notice your hand 387 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:30,880 » yeah no no worries I I think it's um I think it's important for us to remind 388 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:35,119 the public and remind everyone that the comp plan is meant to open doors for us 389 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:40,400 and provide opportunity community to write code, but the city council scopes 390 00:37:38,079 --> 00:37:44,640 what the planning commission deals with. So in all of these scenarios like it 391 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:50,079 returns to the commission to decide what our scope is and we right now are trying 392 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:54,079 to deliver um on most of the areas that have been raised as comments and I think 393 00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:59,200 the comp plan is this is this comp plan is more holistic than anything has been 394 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:03,040 before and gives us more opportunity and I think everyone should view it as that 395 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:06,320 and make sure that we don't feel like it's pushing us in a in a direction. 396 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:10,640 It's actually just leaving more doors open for the city planners and the 397 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:15,440 planning commission to work with the council to deliver better code. And 398 00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:19,280 again, planning commission's responsibility is code. And I think it's 399 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:24,680 very incumbent on the public to understand what our role is and that we 400 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,680 don't decide our own docket. 401 00:38:31,119 --> 00:38:34,520 If there's no 402 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:44,119 planning recommend to the city council 26 403 00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:49,960 draft and with the discuss 404 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,440 format spelling 405 00:38:55,040 --> 00:39:07,480 there a second. All right. Any more discussion before we 406 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:07,480 vote? All right. All those in favor? I I 407 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:16,240 » change. All right. 408 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:23,520 Um so the vote was 1, two, three, four, five to zero for approval. Um 409 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:28,640 and the motion carries. All right. At this time, we'll close the 410 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:32,280 public hearing on the plan periodic update for 2026. 411 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:43,627 All right. Can't believe we have anything else in 412 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,627 our agend [laughter] 413 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:54,640 that didn't take as long as I thought. I added a lot a lot. I'm very ambitious 414 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:57,680 for the August meeting, too, just because we have so much. 415 00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:03,680 » We do have a lot. It's all really exciting. All right. So, um I like how 416 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:11,200 you added um like gave these giant chunks of ABC D under five. So, we'll 417 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:15,640 get to Yes, I did. Thank you for 418 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:27,040 7:40. Um, okay. So, we'll go to item five in 419 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:33,200 our agenda. Development regulations review and discussion. Let's go to item 420 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:38,480 5 a code of update. Uh, all right. Maggie. Yeah. What? Well, I'm asking for 421 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:44,880 your thoughts. We had a deep dive on this and about 11 was like the single 422 00:40:41,359 --> 00:40:51,560 event. Um and so the thing with that the intent of the original the way I got 423 00:40:47,839 --> 00:40:51,560 that was I 424 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:57,880 population estimates both for money and getting back 425 00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:09,680 and getting back housing as well. um it doesn't much way to do it 426 00:41:06,319 --> 00:41:15,839 and I would this is my recommendation to kind of what I'm running around but 427 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:21,760 » we can discuss in perfect specific to us which is what we 428 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:28,720 building situation any so yes >> and then the second portion 429 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:33,680 you the way I have it is by their community 430 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:37,680 » I how they >> why it 431 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:41,440 » right now I don't even think I don't know true 432 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:45,839 » yeah because what if if and when there was to be an annexation and we l to then 433 00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:51,680 that's something that can be dealt with permit by permit case by case at that 434 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:55,599 » we have drafted for annexation when we bring in 435 00:41:53,440 --> 00:42:00,720 we will address this now >> so let let the people in charge a bit 436 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:04,079 deal with them now when when it becomes nec necessary. We can look at it and if 437 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:08,960 it's already filled, that sounds like we're already 438 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:15,200 » comfortable with that. >> Yeah, I agree. 439 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:19,680 » And I know but the council had directly mess 440 00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:24,319 preapproved plans 441 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:28,560 there. I know something about >> Allison was going to draft a memo and 442 00:42:25,839 --> 00:42:32,720 she never looking forward to reading. Okay. So 443 00:42:29,359 --> 00:42:39,839 » I the more come is I believe in April instead of six 444 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:45,280 months. So I get to October. So we have a hearing and oh just 445 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:49,200 » I remember the memo was going to say something along the lines like we're not 446 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:54,400 going to pursue anything that has to do with trying to tag something for any 447 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:57,839 amount of time or any reason. And you know, we also talked about a gray area 448 00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:01,440 regarding like, let's just say that you built the ADU and want to live in it and 449 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:05,440 not your house. Are we now going to control how they rent their house out 450 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:10,319 because they built the ADU? Like, and so like I struggled with the idea of we we 451 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:14,160 struggled with the idea of how how you would even start down there. And so we 452 00:43:12,319 --> 00:43:17,599 all said she she would draft some sort of like verbiage or language that would 453 00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:21,760 help us tell the city council that that's not something that we thought 454 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:26,000 that made sense for us to even engage in because once you start down that path 455 00:43:23,359 --> 00:43:30,800 how even how you start and then where where does it end? So 456 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:34,760 » and what was what's the time frame on that again? 457 00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:34,760 » I think 458 00:43:35,359 --> 00:43:45,560 » okay you need to see something for the September then if not earlier. 459 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,560 Okay. I I don't want to 460 00:43:47,359 --> 00:43:56,880 We have a 4% count and what I have on the agenda with council at our next to 461 00:43:53,119 --> 00:44:01,599 discuss that sites and then to kind of give my idea like hey I'm not going to 462 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:12,040 have anything. I was hoping I have at least I go on 463 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:12,040 that piece and then I need discuss 464 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:20,079 » universally in favor of not having so 465 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:25,599 um and so >> see they'll try and summarize a little 466 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:30,160 bit of the discussion I'm >> a little fuzzy on it but basically 467 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:33,440 you know it's some cost from the city it's already taken doesn't matter how 468 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:40,079 many people use it. So, there's really no paying from the city. You know, they 469 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:46,640 people do pre-approved plans to save a little bit 470 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:51,599 of money. Um, but housing is housing trying to support 471 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:58,079 more housing. We're trying to support types of different kind of housing 472 00:44:54,640 --> 00:45:06,800 for that. Uh, another big piece of it is the breakfast movements 473 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:12,319 lapse on sale of a property and so you know in our thought 474 00:45:10,079 --> 00:45:19,040 the next owner probably won't be allowed to have directives there. So the sale 475 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:23,800 would if they were able to get on that date from that go away 476 00:45:24,079 --> 00:45:32,800 go back. >> Yeah. And you know, I think that the 477 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:36,560 city benefits by having more ADUs 478 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:41,040 and that's why the program is development begin with and we don't 479 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:46,079 really see Ben breakfast as a negative you know we 480 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:54,480 don't want Ben breakfast that's a different discussion 481 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:58,240 but I I think we don't see the use of plans 482 00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:01,920 that may or may not be everybody like this. That is 483 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:06,800 as a a negative. >> I think the other when you say housing 484 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:13,839 is housing uh one aspect of that that we're going to be maxing out our our 485 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:21,920 friend percentage. So like the we're basically there and so if if that one a 486 00:46:17,839 --> 00:46:26,560 three plan ADU becomes a bed breakfast that means that the next ADU or next 487 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:31,920 thing that's built is not going to be so like there's still going to be the same 488 00:46:27,839 --> 00:46:38,800 number of bed breakfast no matter or not. 489 00:46:34,079 --> 00:46:44,400 So you guys don't have can I can I Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. This is the discussion. 490 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:48,720 Okay. So So you guys don't have an issue with they take the pre-approved plans 491 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:52,720 that uh saves [clears throat] them quite a 492 00:46:50,079 --> 00:46:57,839 bit of money actually. I my my my field for sure and whether 493 00:46:55,839 --> 00:47:03,680 they use it for commercial enterprise or they use it for real housing. Good point 494 00:47:00,319 --> 00:47:07,760 for you because it will be housing. >> Don't we have an example? Let's let's 495 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:13,440 talk about the example Simon's given us. So Zeke like in some cases people need 496 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:17,040 to be able to use a pre-approved plan because it's a cost-saving measure to be 497 00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:24,920 able to stay in their home because they need an alternative income source. So we 498 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,920 can't be restrictive on the use 499 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:33,520 » in that sense. Yeah. Um well actually I would disagree with you. I think that 500 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:38,240 why we why we came up with that plan was specifically to promote 501 00:47:35,839 --> 00:47:44,560 those folks who wanted to not get real creative but have just a stock idea for 502 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:49,440 a unit. uh after saving some money that would be providing 503 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:54,960 smaller units more affordable but for housing like long rent like 30day plus 504 00:47:53,280 --> 00:48:02,400 wasn't for adding helping folks out I get your 505 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:09,119 point J but still it's still there's money money in bed and breakfast 506 00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:12,400 is very substantial and I my personal my perspective I don't want to subsidize 507 00:48:11,119 --> 00:48:17,920 that I said we're going to put that um it 508 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:22,000 could stay a bad breakfast forever and never does become really kind of 509 00:48:19,359 --> 00:48:28,640 housing. So I think if we're going to help the housing situation even a little 510 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:35,599 bit by fuel uh you you could have these have a plans 511 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:39,359 that that would ease your cost but you got you got to provide some housing 512 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:44,960 directed. That's where we're at. Not down the road. And uh so 513 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:51,760 part [clears throat] of my thing I think it brought up was if in fact people shut 514 00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:56,800 off as an ADU and then they change it to a better electricity. Okay, this hasn't 515 00:48:54,559 --> 00:49:03,440 been done yet, but so if you change it, then you pay back what you what you save 516 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:10,240 on change. You know, money you save by going to that plan, you owe back um and 517 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:18,040 most way you don't get a big savings like that uh for commercial property. 518 00:49:13,359 --> 00:49:18,040 That's that's coming from you. 519 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:24,160 My feeling is that most bed and breakfast if you're required to live 520 00:49:21,839 --> 00:49:29,280 there aren't necessarily giant commercial enterprises. They're 521 00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:34,640 supplemental income people. Um 522 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:39,760 and the I think it would be different if we were um the city was actually paying 523 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:46,559 something for each of those. But the fact that the money in the cost 524 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:51,680 um and that I think that the more people that use those plants better because 525 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:56,240 that means that the production of of housing is is 526 00:49:54,160 --> 00:50:00,640 granted it might not be housing for people living here right now but that 527 00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:08,640 makes the production of housing less expensive on the um so I I would 528 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:14,960 any any hurdles or anything that we're going to people go through in order to 529 00:50:11,359 --> 00:50:24,720 um to do that I think is mental if I'm a person who um might be able to rent out 530 00:50:18,559 --> 00:50:29,440 um uh rent out at a good rate on uh my ADU in the beginning then that tenant 531 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:33,200 leaves and I need to find I haven't found another tenant might be off season 532 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:37,920 it might be something something might not find a big tenant I would love to 533 00:50:35,839 --> 00:50:44,079 have the option to fill that space to be able to make mortgage payment payment on 534 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:49,040 on the loan gap of that ADU through some other means to have that option. So 535 00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:55,079 procluding that option seems like makes the financial calculus a filing at all. 536 00:50:55,200 --> 00:51:04,160 » I would disagree. I my my only argue I hear where Steve is coming from. My only 537 00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:08,559 argument is this. We have a cap on. >> It doesn't matter what units are bed and 538 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:16,000 credits. We have this many units and we have a total cap on betting. My my 539 00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:23,040 argument is who cares which which ones of those are right now. Yes, the city 540 00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:29,440 created an idea of helping infill housing by creating accessory dwelling 541 00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:33,600 unit pre-planned units. Okay, that idea they can't control the use and 542 00:51:31,599 --> 00:51:37,680 utilization of the idea. And [clears throat] so the idea was put out 543 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:43,440 there by the city of Grey and use and utilization as everyone has talked about 544 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:48,480 is different across the board and trying to tell someone okay we're going to help 545 00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:53,680 you out to the tune of x amount of dollars in plans and pre-ermitting and 546 00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:58,400 you are still going to go out there and spend a quarter of a million dollars to 547 00:51:55,680 --> 00:52:05,200 build said a new or whatever the cost might be for you. how how they can 548 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:08,559 directly use that in any time frame doesn't make sense to me. Especially if 549 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:13,359 we have an overall path, if there was no overall cap on bed and breakfast units, 550 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:18,000 then I would say absolutely we can't just be uh assisting commercial 551 00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:23,440 enterprise as he says. But since there is an overall cap, I I don't understand 552 00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:28,160 why it matters which units are bed and breakfast as long as we have a cap on 553 00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:32,240 the overall units that are that would be my my right because if 554 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:36,960 there's a if there's a hard and fast number on that in a permitting process 555 00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:42,640 they go go through. Can you can you demonstrate why it matters which ones 556 00:52:39,839 --> 00:52:47,040 are that would be my that would be my only argument to your comments. 557 00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:51,920 » Right. Right. But every time you build one, you're up over every time you build 558 00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:56,880 an ADU. [clears throat] You're increasing the overall supply and 559 00:52:54,400 --> 00:53:02,720 so you are going to increase the bed and breakfast supply more bed and breakfast 560 00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:05,680 are going to be built as no because breakfast are not based off the bed and 561 00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:08,800 breakfast are based off of a certain we we discussed this in the last one that 562 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:13,200 we were talking about. are based off a certain specific amount, not necessarily 563 00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:18,079 the overall stock because we don't bring the uh apartments into housing stock for 564 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:22,559 bed and breakfast or anything like that. So, I believe the stock is specific to 565 00:53:20,319 --> 00:53:27,440 what it is. So, uh building more than fill housing in the ADU portion doesn't 566 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:32,000 necessarily increase the stock to increase the percentage uh that 4% 567 00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:35,920 number to a more larger number of housing units if I remember correct. 568 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:39,119 » It would take a lot of it would take a lot of housing units too. I think this 569 00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:43,440 is Zeke, this is part of the thing like if we would have to see massive jumps in 570 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:47,119 housing units in order to see the total number of ADUs allowed change 571 00:53:45,599 --> 00:53:51,520 substantially. I I forgot what the number was, but it's 572 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:59,800 something like 40 new units to even move it one one more ADU allowed in town. 573 00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:59,800 » Um it's it's very narrow. 574 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:05,119 » Anyway, that's my perspective. >> Okay. um discussion. 575 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:13,480 » Yep. I'll have that session feedback. I know 576 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:13,480 that I can language I have support 577 00:54:15,359 --> 00:54:25,119 and then I take back to them on how I was going to ask you. Um so we're 578 00:54:23,119 --> 00:54:27,839 changing how we're going to what's going to make our count. That's what I 579 00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:34,160 understand. We're not going to include it. Before somehow multif family was 580 00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:36,240 being included and now it's >> should be. So 581 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:39,760 » yeah, >> what are we going to what do we where 582 00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:45,599 are we getting our stock number >> from the um the office of financial 583 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:50,400 management their um population estimate for housing units. They take the census 584 00:54:47,599 --> 00:54:57,520 data plus all the data we report monthly to them for housing. We're taking the 585 00:54:52,640 --> 00:55:01,280 single unit. So how many individuals notes 586 00:54:59,839 --> 00:55:07,280 or housing >> straight up positive 587 00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:12,559 » um and of those 4%. So if an ADU is added that would 588 00:55:09,839 --> 00:55:18,559 be I mean it could be a unit but >> and it is a living unit. So, so we added 589 00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:23,920 40 ADUs, it would add one permit for one one more existing 590 00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:29,319 » uh uh >> it takes a lot of 591 00:55:26,319 --> 00:55:29,319 to% 592 00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:45,520 and it was it was not index had been updated and it would not 593 00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:48,720 accurate. >> It's not 594 00:55:46,319 --> 00:55:54,640 » nothing is going to be 100% but this is a lot more accurate based on fact data. 595 00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:59,200 We are reporting personally are reporting to um the 596 00:55:57,599 --> 00:56:05,359 office. >> Okay. based on the public issuing 597 00:56:01,839 --> 00:56:08,359 permits were on. So every April I would report 598 00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:19,040 and based on that I feel pretty confident 599 00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:25,040 » basically it's real life. We know where the source is. Perfect. 600 00:56:22,559 --> 00:56:29,200 » I mean, yeah, everything's >> Well, this is an antidote, folks. 601 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:32,720 » We started this. I had one bed and breakfast in my neighborhood. Now I have 602 00:56:31,599 --> 00:56:36,960 four. >> Are they Are they I have a question. Are 603 00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,280 they a problem? Because I have three in my neighborhood and one right here. Not 604 00:56:38,799 --> 00:56:43,359 a problem. >> And I have no issues with it at all. So, 605 00:56:42,079 --> 00:56:47,920 you know, like I don't disagree with you. They are popping up everywhere. 606 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:52,559 when you look at the like before we both lived here for extended period of time I 607 00:56:50,079 --> 00:56:56,079 would agree with but I I don't see any issue with it yet I haven't seen one 608 00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:59,359 even small issue with it >> I would agree I haven't had fact I know 609 00:56:58,559 --> 00:57:05,200 every there >> me too I'm the same way but it's just 610 00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:10,480 like they are spreading and >> we are almost at our path 611 00:57:07,359 --> 00:57:14,079 » yeah and I Zeke I I think it's important too to acknowledge Zeke that the cold 612 00:57:12,079 --> 00:57:19,119 beds problem for us is not necessarily in ADUs it's and second homes that are 613 00:57:16,799 --> 00:57:24,160 empty. Like we have a we have we're we're we're fighting the ADU problem 614 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:30,559 over or sorry the B&B problem and we have a very strong position to maintain 615 00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:34,000 control I feel. Um I think the rest of the commission agrees that our position 616 00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:37,119 is very strong to main control of B&Bs but we have no control over empty second 617 00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,839 homes >> and that's an even bigger problem for 618 00:57:38,559 --> 00:57:44,559 our community. [snorts] >> Oh, I totally agree. Okay, it's pretty 619 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:49,440 awesome. Yeah, you can't even talk to those 620 00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:53,359 » four on my screen. >> Yeah. 621 00:57:49,920 --> 00:58:01,839 » All right, I think we're ready to close item number 5A and move on to item 5B, 622 00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:06,720 parking code update. Uh, Commissioner Parabar uh drafted the 623 00:58:04,319 --> 00:58:12,640 » Yes, I did. And quickly >> I was in in our packing 624 00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:16,480 um with three different ways to consider calculating. Maggie, did you want to say 625 00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:23,599 anything before? No, I I'd love to start with any question and then because mine 626 00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:28,480 are just very very draft based on state law. 627 00:58:26,079 --> 00:58:33,359 So I rather start. >> All right. Simon fe and the parking 628 00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:38,480 programs. I uh was uh tasked with putting together an idea of uh coming up 629 00:58:36,079 --> 00:58:42,319 with what the cost of a fee what a fee and new structure might look like and 630 00:58:39,839 --> 00:58:47,359 what the cost might look like. Um because we had an amazing parking plan 631 00:58:44,559 --> 00:58:53,359 provided um in February, I was able to use all of that data, we provide a 632 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:58,480 pretty concrete idea of what uh for easy proposal to the uh city council of what 633 00:58:56,319 --> 00:59:04,079 a fee and loop program would look like, how that would um easily easily be 634 00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:10,720 calculated, how that will take shape. And then I put in also um a couple of 635 00:59:07,839 --> 00:59:17,280 you know obvious uh ideas and then an opinion as well um of the fee and lube 636 00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:22,559 program by um looking over how I how I put this together. I you know kind of 637 00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:29,760 double down on the idea of that because we've had uh pretty much the most recent 638 00:59:26,799 --> 00:59:34,400 idea of cost you can here at the city. We know what a park install cost. We've 639 00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:40,160 I mean the the numbers are here. It's it's about 100,000 and I feel like that 640 00:59:37,359 --> 00:59:45,920 is if you ask me that's the idea. That's that's where we should sell. Um that I 641 00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:50,160 understand that it seems high but so does the cost of parking. So is the 642 00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:55,200 value of a parking stall um in Levvenworth and I don't think we should 643 00:59:53,119 --> 01:00:01,200 you know in the idea of trying to help development short the idea of driving in 644 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:05,119 any. So, you know, if you read through my book proposal here and kind of see, 645 01:00:03,359 --> 01:00:09,440 you can see what the cost of it is to the developer and the idea of it, but 646 01:00:07,119 --> 01:00:13,839 what the real cost of it is, especially uh, you know, the cost what the city has 647 01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:18,720 to pay to put forth something like that. I think that that's really where we 648 01:00:15,839 --> 01:00:23,760 should start. I'm absolutely uh willing to come off that point. I just feel 649 01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:29,040 strongly that the proposal that was, you know, put forth really talks truly to 650 01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:35,119 what to and how important parking is inside of 651 01:00:31,359 --> 01:00:38,160 city rooms 11 in the commercial district question about that. Um, and I didn't go 652 01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:42,319 back and read the study. >> That's okay. 653 01:00:39,359 --> 01:00:46,240 » But I think you would have. Um, so the 100,000 and especially compared to the 654 01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:50,880 number two thing that we're getting to on land value cost the 100,000 the cost 655 01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:56,079 for the city to construct >> that was an average. So I took 656 01:00:52,640 --> 01:01:00,000 » of the different Yeah. Y of the of the garage. Does that also include the land 657 01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:04,319 value? No, I don't think so because I I I 658 01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:08,960 believe that the city owned all the land underneath their proposed structures. 659 01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:12,799 So, I was just going off of I was just going to the land 660 01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:16,240 » the cost of the city to build, which is actually perfect because if we already 661 01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:20,640 own the land, then we really truly know cost of construction as opposed to what 662 01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:24,480 the land value might be extracted. >> But you could also say that the 663 01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:27,359 opportunity like the opportunity cost plus the cost would be more than enough. 664 01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:30,799 » Certain certainty, >> right? 665 01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:35,440 Certainly. Okay. Absolutely. If you added the land in there, u you could 666 01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:38,799 easily you could you could absolutely you could absolutely add the land 667 01:01:36,799 --> 01:01:43,440 possibly. >> Oh, please. 668 01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:49,280 » Yeah, Simon. So, the number the number is interesting. Um 669 01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:55,119 to me, the kind of the fee the fee structure being like almost an exact 670 01:01:52,079 --> 01:02:00,640 half cost of of what we think it would cost to build parking spots. Um, 671 01:01:59,119 --> 01:02:06,880 is there precedent for that? I didn't catch that in in what I read. 672 01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:10,960 » I I I miss what you're saying. I I uh in the in the cost to construct method, 673 01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:15,520 which was my first one, it averaged out 98,000. That was what I thought the 674 01:02:13,119 --> 01:02:19,920 city's cost to construct was. I offered other ideas. I was just trying to put 675 01:02:18,079 --> 01:02:25,280 forth I thought this was honestly, guys, I thought this was going to the city 676 01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:29,680 council. So I tried to I tried to talk to somebody who didn't know anything 677 01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:34,160 about what we were talking about if that makes sense. So I tried to lay it out in 678 01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:39,520 okay here's a cost to construct method here's about what the developer might 679 01:02:36,559 --> 01:02:43,839 think the cost to construct is here is what other people are doing in ideas and 680 01:02:42,079 --> 01:02:47,920 then trying to meld them all together. In no way am I saying that the we should 681 01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:52,880 we should have half the cost to construct at all. James, I'm actually 682 01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:58,160 saying that we should be uh fully behind the number one, the cost to construct 683 01:02:54,960 --> 01:03:04,000 method, as it's based off of the the ARC the ARC February report. 684 01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:06,559 » Okay. All right. Yeah, I'm I'm just uh catching up on reading this. I didn't 685 01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:10,799 » No, I apologize. >> I read it I read it a couple days ago 686 01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:14,720 and have uh emptied my brain a couple times since then. So 687 01:03:12,559 --> 01:03:18,799 » So So I If you're asking me what I'm behind, it's number one. I think that I 688 01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:23,280 think the cost is $99,000. And I think that that's where we should start. If 689 01:03:20,319 --> 01:03:26,880 there might be incentives uh put on that or if you're doing things that the city 690 01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:30,079 would like you to do or the direction we're going if there needs to be you 691 01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:36,720 need to bring in a little bit of the idea of uh the you know uh discount 692 01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:41,599 developer discount table bring that in. That's totally okay. But you know for as 693 01:03:39,039 --> 01:03:46,400 far as me and Lou I believe that $99,000 should be our starting. That was that 694 01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:50,559 was the gist behind this and I just trying to put 695 01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:58,799 » uh to someone who had never heard what a loo was before and explain it in them. 696 01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:03,440 » Oh, sorry. >> I think the adjustment scheme could get 697 01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:07,920 really complex. That's why I'm I I was just looking at the option two again, 698 01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:11,920 rereading that. Um, so yeah, I think a a flat baseline with with maybe very 699 01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:15,920 simple adjustments allowed, >> including like maybe a a total project 700 01:04:14,079 --> 01:04:21,119 cost scheme, but I don't know what that would look like. 701 01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:23,280 » That's fair. Absolutely. >> Uh, please can you tell us what the city 702 01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:28,559 said? >> Yeah, so they they really appreciated 703 01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:32,160 this and I think for people that did understand construction, they were like 704 01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:36,000 definitely not number two. That is not that problem. Yeah, but that would be 705 01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:39,440 what what I think it should >> precisely right. That's why I put for 706 01:04:37,599 --> 01:04:41,680 put it forth so you could see what where different minds are coming from in the 707 01:04:40,799 --> 01:04:46,960 real estate. >> I think uh council 708 01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:54,240 you have developed and has no parking in commercial like that number one is 709 01:04:50,720 --> 01:05:00,799 what is norm. >> That's right. Uh there was there was 710 01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:05,039 discussion about and and there were against here but there was discussion 711 01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:08,559 about okay they pay the fee and over the city build parking then the city gets 712 01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:11,839 the residence from that >> right 713 01:05:09,359 --> 01:05:14,480 » and so should there be an adjustment then they're like but they get the 714 01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:17,520 benefit of not having parking >> well they also get the benefit of this 715 01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:21,280 of the space in the building that might be a floor space or whatever that might 716 01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:25,440 be that could be beneficial to the building itself right and so 717 01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:28,319 » and and you know he brought up earlier. He said, "Well, what about the owner 718 01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:33,119 getting the money for the parking?" And I'm like, "The issue here is is we are 719 01:05:30,799 --> 01:05:37,119 talking about the parking that makes the business happen, not extra parking that 720 01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:42,000 the owner might get some money out of, right?" And so the whole idea is that 721 01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:45,839 you you you as the business necessitate the parking so that your business would 722 01:05:44,079 --> 01:05:49,760 function, not so that you can make a couple extra bucks off of it, right? And 723 01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:54,799 so, and so you either look at it as a sunk cost of I'll never have this 724 01:05:52,559 --> 01:05:58,720 business space, this floor space, but I'll have parking, or you pay the 725 01:05:56,799 --> 01:06:03,599 onetime fee in Lua. That's why it kind of feels like a bit of a slap on the 726 01:06:00,559 --> 01:06:08,960 wrist. And then you get the opportunity of having that floor space in perpetuity 727 01:06:06,559 --> 01:06:13,200 in your building, which you would hope is much more beneficial than the parking 728 01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:18,799 space of which you're willing to pay. But they also get to decide that size, 729 01:06:15,599 --> 01:06:23,280 right? But no, that's not true because there are some property owners that are 730 01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:27,599 forced into paying this fee because they can't. There there are there are a few 731 01:06:25,359 --> 01:06:30,720 property owners that are now with the closing of Front Street that that's 732 01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:34,960 going to be imperfect duty. There will be some disenfranchised people. Maybe 733 01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:39,359 that's where the developer table comes in and says, "Well, since there's no 734 01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:47,359 vehicle access to your property, we're willing to make a deal." But that could 735 01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:47,359 be on a case-by case basis as opposed to 736 01:06:49,839 --> 01:06:56,160 I feel like like I'm not a big fan of the discount table because we just bring 737 01:06:54,079 --> 01:07:00,280 it hard, but I feel like that justification might 738 01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:08,720 » like if you physically cannot put in a parking space, 739 01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:12,880 you're not charged. And that would be easy to 740 01:07:10,559 --> 01:07:15,880 » it' be easy to write the code. He's in determinist 741 01:07:19,599 --> 01:07:22,599 James. 742 01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:27,920 » James, go for it. >> I'm just getting lazy and not putting my 743 01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:35,039 hand down, but it this is a good discussion. 744 01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:40,720 » Um I I was curious um is a big slap on the the one time fee. 745 01:07:37,839 --> 01:07:42,880 That's a big like onetime fee. with the finance. 746 01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:46,240 » Well, but that's what I'm that's what I'm wondering. It's like maybe what we 747 01:07:44,319 --> 01:07:52,400 would consider it is actually we could consider instead of a one time fee some 748 01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:56,880 sort of like payment scheme over time or something else or rental. We we 749 01:07:54,160 --> 01:08:00,480 discussed this and what it gets into uh well I shouldn't say we we as a council 750 01:07:59,119 --> 01:08:05,200 we as a commission have discussed this idea before and what it what it gets 751 01:08:02,559 --> 01:08:09,119 best into is this uh gray area at the city of who's controlling this who's 752 01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:11,680 watching these things who's looking over things do these 753 01:08:10,319 --> 01:08:17,199 » you have to charge them >> and so and and so the idea of a one-time 754 01:08:14,079 --> 01:08:22,480 fee that feels pretty aggressive >> they and a developer is absolutely 755 01:08:20,159 --> 01:08:26,960 willing to pay this for sure. Uh there is like if you if you call cities who 756 01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:30,560 have implemented these sort of fees and talk to people, you will find that the 757 01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:35,279 developers just look at it as an opportunity cost and that's how it works 758 01:08:32,799 --> 01:08:39,359 and it just gets paid. Especially in an area like Levwood where you really want 759 01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:42,880 the floor space. You don't want you don't you you would rather have the 760 01:08:41,199 --> 01:08:46,799 floor space. That's that's because that's how you rent out. You don't rent 761 01:08:44,719 --> 01:08:50,080 parking spaces. That's a bonus to everybody. You rent the you rent the 762 01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:54,000 floor space. And I feel like if you were a developer, this would be something 763 01:08:52,319 --> 01:08:57,759 that, you know, it sounds it sounds large, which it is large. And the cost 764 01:08:55,600 --> 01:09:01,440 of the city is that large. And this money then gets to be taken and put into 765 01:08:59,759 --> 01:09:04,880 the fund that directly affects our parking, which is huge. Now, this isn't 766 01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:10,799 going to happen all the time, but when it does, bang. I mean, this is a lose to 767 01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:15,359 our parking, which is very we need that. So, 768 01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:18,799 » I mean, you saw a very 769 01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:24,560 tear down to that model 770 01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:31,080 or between where it's going from something. 771 01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:31,080 » It's not and that's where I where 772 01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:39,120 like what is that? >> I didn't even get into that. That one 773 01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:41,600 scares me a lot. But I'll let the city deal with that because they've already 774 01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:45,600 created that >> you're looking at like well it was a 775 01:09:43,839 --> 01:09:51,040 market before now it's going to be a restaurant or is it or going to be a 776 01:09:47,839 --> 01:09:57,960 assembly state like a theater or something where have a lot more people 777 01:09:54,480 --> 01:09:57,960 but that 50% 778 01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:03,880 I look like 779 01:10:07,440 --> 01:10:13,199 like we have our all of our parking use is kind of broken out. So, it's easy to 780 01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:17,199 do on a case- by case basis, but it really puts the illness on the city 781 01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:21,440 council or excuse me, on the city employees, which is kind of a tough 782 01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:24,960 extra, you know, I that's that's one of the reasons that I remember that we 783 01:10:22,719 --> 01:10:29,120 talked about not trying to implement because what Elizabeth says makes sense. 784 01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:32,400 They should be kind of charged yearly for this, right? But it's like that 785 01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:36,239 would be the best way, but how on earth can we implement that? And who's going 786 01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:41,040 to make sure that that fee structure? That's exactly right. One and all. And 787 01:10:38,719 --> 01:10:44,400 so, yes, it does feel large. I understand that the council uh the 788 01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:49,040 commissioners might, you know, see that and be like, whoa. But the truth is is 789 01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:52,880 while while being large, it's absolutely worth it to a developer, especially. So 790 01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:57,840 if a developer was going to come in and buy a building at a million half $2 791 01:10:55,360 --> 01:11:03,040 million and make a $2 million change, I can tell you from $4 million of money, 792 01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:08,800 $100,000 for $200, what may even $300,000 of the parking fee will just be 793 01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:13,520 an opportunity cost in the overall, you know, or they'll figure out a way around 794 01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:18,440 it. So yeah, that's been asking 795 01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:29,360 that often. >> Well, what where it happens right now is 796 01:11:25,199 --> 01:11:36,120 everything that gradual or when I think that expanding that's 797 01:11:32,239 --> 01:11:36,120 where I want to talk about 798 01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:45,679 to where like it increases the amount of time 799 01:11:44,719 --> 01:11:46,960 Yeah, >> that's fair. 800 01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:51,280 » Um, >> if the change in use increases the 801 01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:53,600 parking capacity that need then that's when this would come, 802 01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:59,440 » right? >> Not 50% but if the change in use decides 803 01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:04,920 because the use is going to decide the parking necessity is that how the 804 01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,920 downtown commercial works anyway 805 01:12:05,440 --> 01:12:10,760 the list of use. 806 01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:18,280 So right now you're not an expansion of 807 01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:27,920 tell. >> So what if I were to buy uh the Peter 808 01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:32,880 James gallery turn it into two hotels and then that would change the use of 809 01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:38,640 the pizza. The motel are different because no matter where you are, that's 810 01:12:34,719 --> 01:12:43,760 why parking or hotel hotel 811 01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:47,920 » really >> that's where 812 01:12:46,159 --> 01:12:53,440 they can. >> Okay. So if they can they can't even go. 813 01:12:51,199 --> 01:12:59,960 » Okay. which is why we have those like small slippery parking lot things 814 01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,960 through the hotel 815 01:13:00,719 --> 01:13:04,040 parking spots. 816 01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:15,360 So um we uh move to review the changes to the parking code. Yeah. I think again 817 01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:20,880 this is like a first step. Yep. Uh so like on page 818 01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:24,800 I think again right 819 01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:31,960 you guys um sense the first page of pageap 820 01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:37,400 14 821 01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:43,719 and this came 822 01:13:45,199 --> 01:13:58,159 from the group about right based on that we don't have to change this and maybe 823 01:13:54,880 --> 01:14:04,000 it's um it's not working but I guess that what 824 01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:09,920 we're trying to say here is I think I'm not in the right place where 825 01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:14,640 » it's page six of 59. >> Okay, I see. Okay. So then it talks 826 01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:19,640 about purpose of the chapter is to assure an adequate number of environment 827 01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:36,679 development costs housing minimize services 828 01:14:39,679 --> 01:14:50,080 for RCW. you about that I had to add 829 01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:58,640 but I just that was just something to kind of show that we're looking at 830 01:14:53,520 --> 01:15:05,840 you scroll through um I bureau 831 01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:09,440 um I still work with but I think shared parking is kind of this big deal because 832 01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:16,480 of mixeduse development now. And so the 833 01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:20,280 idea was to instead of just having 834 01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:23,400 parking, 835 01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:33,320 I'm thinking like garage parking garage. 836 01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:50,080 So maybe something's over on them. Um anyway, the idea here is that 837 01:15:47,199 --> 01:15:55,840 and there's different hours might be able to get a reduction. I I 838 01:15:53,920 --> 01:16:01,040 love the idea of the shared reason. I like that we're not going to require 839 01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:06,400 that you hire out a qualified professional unless you have a 840 01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:12,520 production of greater than something. Um I might even that far. Uh 841 01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:24,719 but the other thing that I would think is in B one we say that uh in greed use 842 01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:29,199 the same parking provided and loading stalls provided the hours of operation 843 01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:33,360 not overlap. That's going to be very few times. I think what we care about is 844 01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:40,560 that their peak hour doesn't overlap, right? So that mean um because that's 845 01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:42,480 just qualify almost everything to say their hours. 846 01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:46,719 » Yeah. >> Yeah. Service the service too. 847 01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:50,880 » Yeah. >> Yeah. Big service hours would be 848 01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:57,159 perfect. That way gives everybody the opportunity to do their own thing, 849 01:16:54,159 --> 01:16:57,159 » right? 850 01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:05,760 Sorry I'm talking. Yeah. That was the coffee. If you look at the what I 851 01:17:03,440 --> 01:17:13,520 crossed out in the red, that's the exact coffee that was in there. So I said I 852 01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:19,360 So instead of um what what would you like to say 853 01:17:16,159 --> 01:17:22,920 peak hours peak hours of operation? 854 01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:32,239 Anything else? >> The hours of peak parking demands do not 855 01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:32,239 overlap. 856 01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:51,840 Well, >> does it matter too much? I mean, I guess 857 01:17:49,679 --> 01:17:56,520 certainly I look at it as okay, what are the uses? What hour do they 858 01:17:56,640 --> 01:18:03,199 think there's a lot of common sense stuff and ULI has papers about this sort 859 01:18:01,199 --> 01:18:05,679 of thing. We don't need to I would expect that 860 01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:10,480 they >> so there is a way to uh quantify it 861 01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:15,520 without the business like telling you what they think it is 862 01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:18,640 as opposed to what being deemed to be I guess is my 863 01:18:16,239 --> 01:18:22,880 » and number D s talks about that there's this share parking manual methodology 864 01:18:20,719 --> 01:18:30,159 which if they post something greater than 25% they have to get it qualified 865 01:18:25,679 --> 01:18:35,679 actually to do that might >> or more than five spaces or something 866 01:18:32,239 --> 01:18:41,920 like that. Like if it's 25% of like two spaces is like so think we probably want 867 01:18:39,440 --> 01:18:44,640 to add and this is only for shared like shared parking. 868 01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:48,080 » I know but like you know there's a lot of places that are like small businesses 869 01:18:46,480 --> 01:18:54,320 next to each other like the opthalmologist and the chiropractor and 870 01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:59,440 the you know they don't each like you know all the spaces all the time. Um, 871 01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:02,400 » but they also don't own the building and they don't control the parking spaces 872 01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:08,400 necessarily. >> Fair enough. That's an example. Um and 873 01:19:05,679 --> 01:19:14,159 so that actually is I guess an issue of like yeah the building use and the 874 01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:21,400 building permit that's what really so right now we're doing the change we're 875 01:19:16,480 --> 01:19:21,400 going to look at that doesn't reduce 876 01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:34,520 any change of occupancy that more 877 01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:37,880 there. 878 01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:46,320 » Yeah. says meeting 879 01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:52,159 » but but to some extent I mean with the idea of like what we were coming up with 880 01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:57,760 or discussing at prior meetings of the not having any parking minimums and 881 01:19:54,719 --> 01:20:03,520 letting the market decide the building developer is deciding somewhat but they 882 01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:08,320 can take responsibility for whether they can rent out the area to so I 883 01:20:06,480 --> 01:20:12,719 » and also I would double down what Elizabeth is saying there to the fact 884 01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:17,360 that wouldn't we want leave the use and the usability to the landlord. Like if 885 01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:21,840 the landlord wants to do triple end leases and the uses are going to change, 886 01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:26,080 we want to have some something more guard rail in place as opposed to 887 01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:28,960 specific to each use. If those uses change, does that mean our parking 888 01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:32,480 requirements for a building that's already in place are going to change? 889 01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:35,840 » How Yeah. How would that I mean, how would we I think that's an enforcability 890 01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:39,679 issue. >> Exactly. That's I agree with James. I I 891 01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:44,560 hear what we're saying. I just don't know how on earth we could begin to 892 01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:50,400 enforce those changes of use as the building mors or whatever it 893 01:20:47,440 --> 01:20:54,880 » that's when they're adding 894 01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:58,320 whatever >> okay 895 01:20:56,080 --> 01:21:00,800 » they already have like >> okay 896 01:20:58,719 --> 01:21:06,080 » so right now that would >> that would happen yeah so see there's a 897 01:21:03,679 --> 01:21:10,560 lot of if ends or plus there's so little chance of these small things happening 898 01:21:08,239 --> 01:21:15,040 And this is anywhere. So I was thinking we had something that was developed out 899 01:21:12,239 --> 01:21:20,400 by state and they do a multiuse something. This 900 01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:25,040 could really useful if they operate different hours or they're trying you 901 01:21:22,719 --> 01:21:31,600 know they have a giant don't want more 902 01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:38,320 see that a lot of places are getting wiped out. We also have like how we this 903 01:21:35,440 --> 01:21:44,040 is a big deal. We also as we go larger in this you'll see we have a policy to 904 01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:44,040 subgr 905 01:21:48,480 --> 01:21:54,639 and C4 covers us because the community development director and the public 906 01:21:52,960 --> 01:22:01,760 works director have to approve the arrangement. So we are I guess we're 907 01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:06,159 we have finally said I guess people that matter the people that look at this 908 01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:08,320 every day and say yeah 909 01:22:06,480 --> 01:22:14,400 » I my question is what is the difference between B and C 910 01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:20,560 » I think E was I don't know I think B was just left over I think I added all the 911 01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:25,679 shared I was like in 912 01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:30,719 the same thing event isn't supposed to be because I think Joy is more like this 913 01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:35,520 church the church operates on Sundays but this building over here operates 914 01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:39,280 during the week and so they got so good in it so we use their 915 01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:43,280 » and the peak hours thing can be with the uh we operate the dentist office here in 916 01:22:41,199 --> 01:22:50,080 the morning and the restaurant and bar at night and you know we don't 917 01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:55,280 » I I was just wondering if um we could have it all under you know join you 918 01:22:53,360 --> 01:23:02,239 owners refer to two more land uses parcels of land or two or more land uses 919 01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:05,120 within a development and make it 920 01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:08,120 » yeah one set of subullets is what I was thinking 921 01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:15,920 » just add another add another comma to see where it covers like the 922 01:23:23,199 --> 01:23:29,719 cuz I think we want the same things. 923 01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:47,440 » No, don't. Great. You have everything. You have everything there. You have 924 01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:52,719 everything there. >> Um, but that makes complete sense. 925 01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:59,360 That's fine. Purpose of a first draft. And then we have the study if they want 926 01:23:54,719 --> 01:24:05,440 to go higher agreement. Yeah. And I would like to 927 01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:11,520 I like that it's a reported agreement. I like that it's reported but the can we 928 01:24:08,719 --> 01:24:14,760 say greater than 25% or a certain number of spaces 929 01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:27,000 I think that easier. 930 01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,600 Yeah, 931 01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:40,239 they always have the ability to I'm just thinking about small uses. 932 01:24:38,480 --> 01:24:47,560 I'm just thinking about who aren't going to want to hire qualified professionals 933 01:24:42,639 --> 01:24:47,560 but they demonstrate all this right 934 01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:58,120 only up to 25%. So this they only have but a lot of those are only 935 01:25:03,679 --> 01:25:10,480 if they're sharing two parking spaces and they have like if someone requires 936 01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:13,960 two and they want to share three parking spaces that 937 01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:20,120 I guess if they can show the 938 01:25:20,639 --> 01:25:26,880 » if they can't meet if they can't meet like a few of the if they meet a few of 939 01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:32,639 the criteria under B then they wouldn't even have to worry about 50% of the have 940 01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:37,440 to pay for study no A >> well they can only get 25% of no it said 941 01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:46,000 up to it's up to 20 I guess that's the difference between B and C is that C um 942 01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:51,760 » B is broad and C says specifically two or more 25% 943 01:25:48,639 --> 01:25:51,760 further studies indeed 944 01:25:59,679 --> 01:26:04,000 I guess the question is do we want to push people towards the study or do we 945 01:26:02,639 --> 01:26:08,239 want to let no >> let let there be a gray area that is I 946 01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:14,000 mean we put a lot of gray area on our city officials to uh you know um see 947 01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:16,800 these things of the peress and figure them out 948 01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:20,880 » without giving you guys like specific guidance. And so I worry that this might 949 01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:27,199 put more on this on you than necessary. >> 50% seems like a big number to have. 950 01:26:23,199 --> 01:26:34,400 That's why I was wondering where No, there's not. I'm just using the example 951 01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:38,960 of two two uses each required two spots. I think they want to share one shared 952 01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:42,960 three spots and then they would have to I don't 953 01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:46,960 think that's going to happen very often. I think they should have to I mean like 954 01:26:44,639 --> 01:26:54,040 I think about my chiropractor they go in 157 955 01:26:50,159 --> 01:26:54,040 minutes early I don't have 956 01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:57,960 know 957 01:27:08,639 --> 01:27:12,520 » they don't share office. 958 01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:22,159 » What is our only mixeduse? Is it is it the dentist office out there? The kids 959 01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:27,120 in the dentist office area and the investor zone. Is that our true? 960 01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:33,040 » I mean, we've got buildings that are all the same like the right building. 961 01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:36,560 » Yeah, it's about >> certainly, but they are under that 962 01:27:34,719 --> 01:27:39,520 parking department. So, it's almost like you have a point to talk about. I hear 963 01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:42,800 what you're saying. I'm just saying like what 964 01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:48,000 » that's little ones where there's a restaurant that you know like a held 965 01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:52,156 above. >> Yeah, absolutely. Sed downtown. 966 01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:54,176 » Yeah. [clears throat] 967 01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:09,400 » I worry about stuff I don't worry about. So I don't think 968 01:28:09,679 --> 01:28:21,600 » yeah and again sorry for brand new I don't for any 969 01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:26,600 go to the next >> this is the biggest one that part of 970 01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:26,600 discussions a lot 971 01:28:30,719 --> 01:28:40,639 of that work. So if I scroll down to 14 128 972 01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:46,400 » sent me but I like the idea of breaking it down the big paragraph 973 01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:53,120 in all zoning districts and parking shall be provided for this chapter 974 01:28:50,639 --> 01:28:58,239 as always any new structure. 975 01:28:55,679 --> 01:29:02,960 Okay, this is the change that increases parking requirements. 976 01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:05,520 That makes more sense to me. >> When it said that the parking 977 01:29:04,239 --> 01:29:09,480 requirement, let me know exactly what was so agreement. 978 01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:24,000 » Should I say the square footage? >> How would we define size of square 979 01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:28,560 footage? Whichever one we define, let's use that. You should experiment because 980 01:29:26,639 --> 01:29:34,400 the size >> again just I don't know it's fine 981 01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:38,080 » and it's square and and there are multiple square footages. I'm just going 982 01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:42,960 to go ahead and be hilarious here. We say GBA or GLM. GLA is all above grade. 983 01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:47,080 GBA is every bit of square footage. Doesn't matter if it's below or above. 984 01:29:47,199 --> 01:29:54,480 » Never heard that before. Gross story. Can we define that? Okay, perfect. As 985 01:29:52,719 --> 01:30:01,040 long as we define it. And that's how it's well that's how our 986 01:29:57,440 --> 01:30:01,679 that's how our parking is here. 987 01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:02,560 » Yeah. >> Okay. 988 01:30:02,239 --> 01:30:05,440 » So, >> is that an interior measurement? I've 989 01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:09,120 never heard that. >> Yeah, it's um 990 01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:15,639 » I'm gonna look it up. I'll take >> I'll see how we find out. But, um 991 01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:24,239 anyway, that that's clear how it was it was before. I just feel like this is 992 01:30:21,600 --> 01:30:32,840 easier. I can watch Central a little bit, but I definitely sides. 993 01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:32,840 » It's 80% the rate met. 994 01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:44,199 » I mean, do you want to make them have more parking spot? 995 01:30:46,480 --> 01:30:53,840 I think that's >> Well, my concern is that 996 01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:58,639 » Well, my concern is that building expansions are getting feedback. 997 01:30:56,560 --> 01:31:03,520 » See, I this is why I made that comment earlier. So we can exactly we can do all 998 01:31:01,679 --> 01:31:06,639 these things and then people will try to figure out a way to kind of start the 999 01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:13,600 system in like not just general 1000 01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:17,239 » it gives them that buffer to be able to add a little bit 1001 01:31:18,159 --> 01:31:26,320 » I don't know I mean you know in my mind basically grandfathering all these 1002 01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:29,440 businesses that have never contributed to the 1003 01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:32,880 parking Fair enough. 1004 01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:38,159 » I'm not saying it's the right way of looking at it. I'm just saying that 1005 01:31:36,719 --> 01:31:42,600 it's worth talking about. >> So what? Yeah. Recommendations. 1006 01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:54,080 » Yeah. >> You know, they make changes that require 1007 01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:59,040 parking. They should pay for the parking. 1008 01:31:56,880 --> 01:32:02,040 » Yeah. We could say anything that occasion 1009 01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:11,400 feels more fair to 1010 01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:18,719 » increase. >> Can we do a hypothetical here? I just 1011 01:32:17,360 --> 01:32:23,679 love to hear how it is. Like if they went down if it does require more 1012 01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:26,840 parking, why would you charge more? for increment. 1013 01:32:28,719 --> 01:32:33,159 But do you have to if you have 1014 01:32:33,600 --> 01:32:43,679 » if you did the Pam Oliver in the Tri which used to be 1015 01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:48,159 anyways and you you did that and you remodeled 1016 01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:54,000 that building to a brand new but you didn't change any use. Every every floor 1017 01:32:51,280 --> 01:33:00,880 remained the same rentable space ch without changing the tachki shop use but 1018 01:32:58,159 --> 01:33:05,440 you remodel your entire building. Okay. We have no provision in here for just 1019 01:33:03,199 --> 01:33:11,120 remodeling it. Just spending the money that would make you buying the big room. 1020 01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:15,840 Is that is that correct? Am I right in saying that? Okay. So So to spend all 1021 01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:20,719 the money remodeling this and then you can have triple N leases, right? A 1022 01:33:18,639 --> 01:33:24,159 triple N lease is a triple net lease, meaning that the person that comes in is 1023 01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:27,679 allowed to do whatever they would like to do inside the walls of your building. 1024 01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:31,360 You allow them full access to do whatever they want. So 1025 01:33:30,480 --> 01:33:33,920 » thing, but then the >> but then the people would come in and 1026 01:33:32,719 --> 01:33:38,960 change the use of the building technically, but we have no way to 1027 01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:45,520 recoup that parking change of use if if if the if only one tenant were to do it 1028 01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:51,120 at a time. And so I I worry that we are actually kind of if we are barking is 1029 01:33:48,480 --> 01:33:55,280 what we talk what we call it here and and so important we're kind of missing 1030 01:33:52,960 --> 01:34:03,159 the boat there. There are ways like we've discussed there are easy easy ways 1031 01:33:57,679 --> 01:34:03,159 around this thing as a develop 1032 01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:10,679 » any change in the use of occupancy or any building experience. 1033 01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:19,679 » Oh right. any change in the use 1034 01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:23,440 increases the bargaining unit. >> But if you don't change your use as the 1035 01:34:21,199 --> 01:34:28,239 developer when you do the like like I'm just trying to 1036 01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:32,400 » Well, so if if you only expanded 49% and that change didn't necessitate no 1037 01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:36,880 parking, you know, >> the legal process with the city for 1038 01:34:34,080 --> 01:34:40,360 changing >> I just feel like 1039 01:34:43,440 --> 01:34:48,360 Oh, there's nothing. 1040 01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:04,960 » All right, let's not let's have one conversation. Um, 1041 01:35:03,120 --> 01:35:11,239 Maggie, can you repeat your your point about what happens? 1042 01:35:07,199 --> 01:35:11,239 Okay. So we have two different 1043 01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:39,440 » and the business license the uh the the tenant applying for the business license 1044 01:35:36,480 --> 01:35:44,880 will will trigger a change of use that will affect the landlord. 1045 01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:49,440 » I mean, the big >> Okay. I'm I'm just trying to make sure 1046 01:35:46,480 --> 01:35:54,320 that I understand it. And and Okay. >> And so then what the the landlord would 1047 01:35:52,000 --> 01:36:02,480 need to do is be able to include the cost of 1048 01:35:56,960 --> 01:36:07,320 » would need to pay the fee in if goes down, they don't get that money 1049 01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:07,320 that I 1050 01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:11,840 That's the thing. It's a cash model. That's the weird thing is the capital 1051 01:36:10,639 --> 01:36:18,520 expense, right? >> Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. But it would be 1052 01:36:14,239 --> 01:36:18,520 baked in. So they go back. 1053 01:36:21,440 --> 01:36:29,440 Or I guess if you look at it from the landlord's perspective, if you pay the 1054 01:36:25,679 --> 01:36:35,120 fee in the love, you could offer a superior rental product to the market 1055 01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:38,239 because you have that already taken care of. Right. Right. 1056 01:36:37,920 --> 01:36:42,560 » Yeah. >> Precisely. Precisely. Right. So, so as 1057 01:36:40,159 --> 01:36:47,600 the landlord, your your your economic benefit of paying the field for the 1058 01:36:45,440 --> 01:36:53,920 change of use would be that you would have that in perpetuity as a as 1059 01:36:52,639 --> 01:36:58,719 you would own it, but I guess technically you kind of would be. 1060 01:36:56,719 --> 01:37:04,080 » Yeah. Which brings up another point. I don't know. 1061 01:37:01,199 --> 01:37:12,400 Well, probably don't want to go there, but 1062 01:37:07,199 --> 01:37:15,199 does the fee and loo increase over time. >> Absolutely. 1063 01:37:13,760 --> 01:37:18,960 » If you look at my calculations, you'll see that if you can base the fee and loo 1064 01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:24,000 off this and then you can periodically update that. So, so the fee and loo is 1065 01:37:22,400 --> 01:37:28,239 actually especially based off of like number one in my proposal would be the 1066 01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:33,040 best because that's the easiest thing to periodically update because there are 1067 01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:38,960 places we can absolutely get gather said data and do it every 12 months. So you 1068 01:37:36,719 --> 01:37:43,440 can have something to keep >> in our code 1069 01:37:42,320 --> 01:37:46,679 for the schedule. >> Yep. Exactly. 1070 01:37:47,679 --> 01:37:53,080 » So the 12 months want to make sure that that's 1071 01:37:53,920 --> 01:38:02,119 not right because that has to change. Absolutely. for the way I have 1072 01:38:04,639 --> 01:38:07,639 it 1073 01:38:11,920 --> 01:38:19,719 instead of again my woring parking outside 1074 01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:29,199 right I I I 1075 01:38:29,679 --> 01:38:34,760 It's not require we're not going to have any threshold. Sorry, 1076 01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:41,159 it's just going to say the amount that's 1077 01:38:42,080 --> 01:38:52,920 that price that I said to criteria they 1078 01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:52,920 say in this area. 1079 01:38:53,600 --> 01:39:00,400 » Yeah. And the establishment can change. >> Yeah. And that's that's what matters 1080 01:38:57,840 --> 01:39:04,480 because that's what keeps the whole idea program up to date because that's why if 1081 01:39:02,480 --> 01:39:09,760 you read the proposal you'll see that the I mean there is when counties or 1082 01:39:07,679 --> 01:39:14,080 municipalities just put the flat rate on it and they and no one ever double 1083 01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:19,199 checks the flat rate and then it just becomes a nonsense thing that's just 1084 01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:24,000 there and those flat rates are terrible. So doing it this way, like Maggie has 1085 01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:29,119 proposed is absolutely the best and smartest and most up-to-date way and it 1086 01:39:26,480 --> 01:39:35,760 keeps the municipality. So >> um I'd like to discuss the lack of edits 1087 01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:41,199 to the next section uh 130 the elimination. It's just the right 1088 01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:45,920 underneath that sorry >> um which basically says that when it's 1089 01:39:43,679 --> 01:39:50,080 been provided but an existing user is added to an existing usage will not be 1090 01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:55,760 eliminated elimination will result in less cause 1091 01:39:52,560 --> 01:40:02,080 and required chapter. I think there are several cases where um 1092 01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:06,040 existing uses I mean I just keep thinking of the hotel ley 1093 01:40:06,480 --> 01:40:14,600 situation that makes sense to develop front street right like doesn't make 1094 01:40:10,719 --> 01:40:14,600 sense to have street 1095 01:40:15,199 --> 01:40:22,239 » but it doesn't say that they said if elimination result less for factor I 1096 01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:29,600 mean I think we should extend that to say it shall not be eliminated. If it um 1097 01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:33,080 basically we need to provide an out saying they can 1098 01:40:36,719 --> 01:40:40,199 applies to everyone 1099 01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:51,159 constructing not 1100 01:40:51,199 --> 01:40:54,520 status construction 1101 01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:10,800 instead of like instead of constructing or providing you say instead of 1102 01:41:06,159 --> 01:41:13,800 providing on site. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. 1103 01:41:14,480 --> 01:41:19,400 But if you have excuse me, 1104 01:41:24,639 --> 01:41:29,639 » that makes sense. I just want to make Yeah, I just want to make sure 1105 01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:36,320 and and I want to make sure anyone go into like that's how I would interpret 1106 01:41:33,600 --> 01:41:36,320 it now. 1107 01:41:44,159 --> 01:41:47,159 Yeah. 1108 01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:59,679 » All right. So, we have 150 is the next place where there's 1109 01:41:56,560 --> 01:42:04,199 Oh, the number. Yeah. that we're not 1110 01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:10,840 about that 1111 01:42:12,239 --> 01:42:20,719 work in progress that they might but yeah we did update that yeah so we won't 1112 01:42:18,719 --> 01:42:29,280 dig into that one I I brought this to council last time they had no concern 1113 01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:35,080 except um and point industrial look at 1114 01:42:31,920 --> 01:42:35,080 too much. 1115 01:42:36,719 --> 01:42:40,679 » Oh yeah, that much. 1116 01:42:41,119 --> 01:42:46,239 » Hold on. I wouldn't disagree with her, but the larger the campus, the larger 1117 01:42:45,199 --> 01:42:50,719 amount of employees you're going to require to run campus in the brewery, 1118 01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:54,400 not maybe not so much because brewing beer is like a, you know, you do it then 1119 01:42:52,880 --> 01:42:58,000 you wait a little bit until the batch goes through. But like in other 1120 01:42:55,920 --> 01:43:03,040 situations, you know, the larger you get, you're scaling probably for 1121 01:43:01,360 --> 01:43:07,040 you might I mean, so maybe the parking department isn't 1122 01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:11,600 » industrial, they're very likely to want to be able to to construct the amount of 1123 01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:16,960 parking that they need. I don't know. industrial things that are built out. 1124 01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:21,040 They know how much like the probably knows how much parking it needs and then 1125 01:43:18,800 --> 01:43:28,960 it has that facility and it's perfect facilities when you get that I guess 1126 01:43:26,080 --> 01:43:32,600 maybe just a general industrial maybe we wouldn't use 1127 01:43:34,880 --> 01:43:43,840 » I would just go I would just lower the industrial just because I do think that 1128 01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:49,040 there's a purpose to I just data 1129 01:43:47,119 --> 01:43:52,679 like this. You don't want to do a millyilly. 1130 01:43:49,679 --> 01:43:52,679 » Yeah. 1131 01:43:56,719 --> 01:44:00,199 This exact 1132 01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:06,800 now I can dig into a lot of other data. I would just go Yeah, I would I would go 1133 01:44:05,280 --> 01:44:11,040 more rather than 1134 01:44:08,639 --> 01:44:13,520 you don't want to I'm sitting down. Yeah. Yeah. 1135 01:44:13,760 --> 01:44:17,000 and I only 1136 01:44:20,080 --> 01:44:27,920 put on so 1137 01:44:25,520 --> 01:44:31,719 you guys have I felt like a lot of 1138 01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:39,239 accurate and actually 1139 01:44:41,520 --> 01:44:46,360 make sure that what we start 1140 01:44:50,719 --> 01:44:54,679 and our electric 1141 01:44:59,119 --> 01:45:08,000 19. >> Oh, yes. 1142 01:45:04,159 --> 01:45:11,000 » This thing's a nightmare. I'm sorry. >> 14 1143 01:45:13,679 --> 01:45:23,760 my concern is around one requiring it uh irrigated landscaping. I feel like there 1144 01:45:20,719 --> 01:45:29,920 should be an option for non-erated landscaping and also 1145 01:45:26,639 --> 01:45:34,560 you know thinking about issues landscaping 1146 01:45:31,520 --> 01:45:38,960 and fences. on a different 1147 01:45:36,719 --> 01:45:41,280 » Okay. >> This is parking lot actually. 1148 01:45:40,880 --> 01:45:47,480 » Yes. >> Yes. 1149 01:45:43,679 --> 01:45:47,480 And fences are under 1150 01:45:49,360 --> 01:45:54,560 parking. >> Yeah. 1151 01:45:53,440 --> 01:45:58,040 permit. >> Well, there is. 1152 01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:06,679 » So, I did add language about 1153 01:46:07,280 --> 01:46:11,239 » there's something here about 1154 01:46:11,280 --> 01:46:21,920 things, but whatever. I don't >> talk about different fire departments. 1155 01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:27,040 » Okay, that makes sense. But yeah, like just thinking about wildfire situations 1156 01:46:25,360 --> 01:46:31,760 in terms of landscape maybe >> and I thought and I'm sorry I thought I 1157 01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:38,960 updated have this section that talks about uh choosing trees that are 1158 01:46:36,159 --> 01:46:46,880 specific to the climate and >> yeah but that's 1159 01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:53,159 » and and trees I'm less concerned about. >> Sorry, I'm trying to find it. There's a 1160 01:46:48,719 --> 01:46:53,159 reference to trees that go on. 1161 01:46:54,320 --> 01:46:57,320 » Okay. 1162 01:46:59,073 --> 01:47:01,094 [clears throat] 1163 01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:11,000 » That makes sense. 1164 01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:20,639 Like we make sure that >> Yeah. 1165 01:47:16,239 --> 01:47:24,119 » I'm from doing that. I think the main thing 1166 01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:34,520 is that there's a certain 1167 01:47:35,679 --> 01:47:45,760 standard. So we have like applies to everything. Um 1168 01:47:43,760 --> 01:47:49,159 » yeah. So there's a continuous 5 foot metal undergs 1169 01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:54,760 except on the side runs. 1170 01:47:55,600 --> 01:48:02,560 » I'm sorry. I know I read something. >> I'll take this a little more. I'm 1171 01:48:00,719 --> 01:48:05,560 hearing hearing you. >> Okay. 1172 01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:19,320 » Yeah. statement and we added like I don't want 1173 01:48:15,600 --> 01:48:19,320 and then saying 1174 01:48:21,760 --> 01:48:24,760 but 1175 01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:37,920 I know whenever I program here that I I run it by fire and 1176 01:48:31,360 --> 01:48:42,000 I say and I look at our fire Are you 1177 01:48:39,199 --> 01:48:47,920 » and I have them make sure that I know last 1178 01:48:46,000 --> 01:48:52,360 what is your first I think the first round. 1179 01:48:54,320 --> 01:48:58,920 So we are active being very 1180 01:49:06,800 --> 01:49:13,199 um complex 1181 01:49:11,119 --> 01:49:20,239 farm. >> Yeah, they requested that I could put in 1182 01:49:16,480 --> 01:49:23,040 some like native plants and not irrigate it. 1183 01:49:24,560 --> 01:49:28,280 We need to have that so 1184 01:49:30,239 --> 01:49:33,719 they were trying to 1185 01:49:39,440 --> 01:49:42,440 think. 1186 01:49:43,360 --> 01:49:52,400 So yeah, I did put that note on there. I said this must be like if the plants die 1187 01:49:49,600 --> 01:49:57,679 forever. So maybe we have if irrigation proposed 1188 01:49:55,360 --> 01:50:00,679 a plan. We need to make sure they have check 1189 01:50:06,639 --> 01:50:09,639 usually. 1190 01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:19,639 » They do. So you have to have the back. >> Yeah. So long 1191 01:50:16,639 --> 01:50:19,639 separately 1192 01:50:25,440 --> 01:50:30,920 anywhere that says 1193 01:50:33,440 --> 01:50:36,440 fire 1194 01:50:39,040 --> 01:50:42,040 and 1195 01:50:44,400 --> 01:50:47,400 Yeah. 1196 01:51:08,480 --> 01:51:11,480 » Yeah. 1197 01:51:12,880 --> 01:51:21,600 Um, moving back up to B who had a question was about the APA accessible 1198 01:51:18,880 --> 01:51:26,560 parking. Oh yeah, there it seems like that whole section. I'm not opposed to 1199 01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:34,040 that but should go down where we talk about 1200 01:51:29,360 --> 01:51:34,040 parking vehicle station. 1201 01:51:34,320 --> 01:51:39,960 Oh yeah, page six. Yeah. And it would have like 1202 01:51:45,040 --> 01:51:53,040 I think there's that building 1203 01:51:50,159 --> 01:52:02,880 for that. But but yeah, I see. Yeah. 1204 01:51:59,599 --> 01:52:06,800 All parking lot is except there's no minimum number 1205 01:52:04,880 --> 01:52:12,560 parking. That's what I was going to ask. So like should there be 1206 01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:17,560 well if there's a certain number parking lot there is parking lot. 1207 01:52:18,080 --> 01:52:24,520 So that's I guess I could say that when it's 1208 01:52:26,239 --> 01:52:37,239 like I don't know what it's 1209 01:52:31,679 --> 01:52:37,239 measured I know there are a requirement 1210 01:52:37,440 --> 01:52:41,000 so this 1211 01:52:44,480 --> 01:52:50,480 draft thank you for making a draft I only 1212 01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:59,239 Thank you for making a draft. >> This is just like ah um that's Yeah, 1213 01:52:54,159 --> 01:52:59,239 we'll find out. I'll talk to 1214 01:53:01,440 --> 01:53:07,520 » I feel like this is the only thing that we're gonna last probably going to get 1215 01:53:04,960 --> 01:53:15,440 through. But yeah, is there are there any other things like to highlight on 1216 01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:21,560 this? Yes. Okay. So, uh, if we go down to 1217 01:53:18,159 --> 01:53:21,560 14 127 1218 01:53:21,599 --> 01:53:25,159 the driveway standard 1219 01:53:26,320 --> 01:53:29,320 driveway 1220 01:53:33,119 --> 01:53:36,119 14127 1221 01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:42,000 and then scroll down 1222 01:53:42,560 --> 01:53:48,920 This is a new state law changes to driveways but 1223 01:53:49,679 --> 01:53:58,880 this sorry this was something I wanted in public 1224 01:53:56,400 --> 01:54:05,880 and it actually needs to have some kind of measured level because it can impact 1225 01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:05,880 the driveways and over 1226 01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:14,760 problems and or too much or not arterial service, hey 1227 01:54:17,199 --> 01:54:20,199 people 1228 01:54:20,320 --> 01:54:29,760 stand all 1229 01:54:24,800 --> 01:54:34,360 um so this parking is a requirement added to parking definition 1230 01:54:34,400 --> 01:54:40,719 whatever they're already 1231 01:54:40,800 --> 01:54:48,880 Um our miners residential right now 1232 01:54:46,719 --> 01:54:53,520 we have so 1233 01:54:51,840 --> 01:54:57,719 um parking off any out 1234 01:55:02,159 --> 01:55:06,400 there's what we have find 1235 01:55:09,119 --> 01:55:19,719 And we have um legal nonform services 1236 01:55:16,719 --> 01:55:19,719 area 1237 01:55:20,320 --> 01:55:23,320 requirements 1238 01:55:27,599 --> 01:55:32,040 a little bit saying we already have 1239 01:55:33,920 --> 01:55:44,159 » right Now they have to down up to six states for resident. 1240 01:55:40,239 --> 01:55:47,159 Um and grass block outside. 1241 01:55:58,800 --> 01:56:07,840 So improvements things that are required by state law. Um, that's really what I 1242 01:56:05,599 --> 01:56:11,480 so I can make those recommended. There's really nothing more 1243 01:56:19,360 --> 01:56:31,320 that um pretty much in your pack about it was a lot of work. Um, but it 1244 01:56:26,719 --> 01:56:31,320 was really just to show you feel free. 1245 01:56:35,840 --> 01:56:41,639 So, I really want you that she got some great background 1246 01:56:42,480 --> 01:56:46,440 sheet how they they 1247 01:56:46,560 --> 01:56:55,040 very simple. Um, but anyway, we're still still going through it. We'll get more 1248 01:56:52,719 --> 01:57:03,159 updates on this stuff. Um I think the art and public zoning stuff 1249 01:56:59,119 --> 01:57:03,159 and more definition. 1250 01:57:03,599 --> 01:57:08,199 » Perfect. Good. >> Amazing. 1251 01:57:19,520 --> 01:57:22,719 » Don't worry about it. >> Okay. 1252 01:57:21,119 --> 01:57:27,679 » Well, if you find anything else, let me know. I took your comment. I appreciate 1253 01:57:25,840 --> 01:57:30,159 you. Thanks for being here. Dave, I talked over you or anything. Thanks for 1254 01:57:29,119 --> 01:57:36,960 being here. >> Um, appreciate entertain a motion to 1255 01:57:34,080 --> 01:57:42,639 » motion. So move. I like that. 1256 01:57:38,639 --> 01:57:48,119 » I'll second. All in favor? I >> All right. 1257 01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:48,119 » Thanks for 1258 01:57:50,239 --> 01:57:57,440 » the fe thing. Um I it was just it was just ideas that I feel 1259 01:57:55,840 --> 01:58:01,360 » I don't have a feeling either way. I don't want to make it feel like the the 1260 01:58:00,080 --> 01:58:05,280 has to feel the commissioners have a feeling either way. And with just like 1261 01:58:02,800 --> 01:58:05,280 there's four