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If you call the order the December 2012 meeting, the devil's like water improvement district, first order of business is the consent agenda.

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Do you have a motion for her?

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I'm moving adopted, Senate agenda.

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Second. Second. Okay. All those in favor?

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Aye. Aye. Post. Okay. Motion carries unanimously.

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Have any public comment this evening?

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Sir, I'm on a,

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I'm mild, slasinger, 1192 North East Lake Drive, Lincoln City, Oregon.

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And for about five months now, I've had the idea of having another event to attract people to Lincoln City during a typically slow weekend.

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And I've gotten the Northwest Jet Sports Association, which has, as part of the Jet-Ski National Organization to run a race here.

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And last Thursday, I got news that the Chinook Wins casino in Resort will sponsor the insurance

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for which is about an $1800 bill, but they want to have their two conditions to that.

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One is that we get a letter from Paul Robertson or Mr. Schurven that you concur with the idea of a jet ski races. Hopefully it'll be an annual event.

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And it will start off the season for Jetsky racing in the Northwest, which is finished in the

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blotian tournament in Pacific City.

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And the other condition besides a lot of from Delhi's Lake Water Improvement District

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is they want the application to go to the city for the other half of the matching funds,

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which will be delivered probably tomorrow, a Monday, and the project manager for the

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Getski Association is a publisher of a weekly newspaper like the newsguard here, but

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It's in Omak Washington, and he's got that and is selling it in now.

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We should have the Chamber of Commerce on board, but I haven't talked to them yet, and

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when I get the application turned in, then I'm going to go to them because we want to involve

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as many local businesses in the affair that, because we want to use the city park, the

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Regatta Park, and it's a two-day event with lots of excitement.

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So, it's good.

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What do they want to hold it?

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It'll be held the weekend before Memorial Day, which is a shoulder weekend to the

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But it's nice weather normally in Lincoln City.

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So sometime around the 15th.

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15th and 17th this week, the 17th and 18th and 19th and 19th and 19th and 19th and 19th.

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But Miles, I didn't understand what the city is being asked to match.

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The visitors and convention bureau has matching funds, and it costs about $4,500 to put on this with ambulance services and, or stand by ambulance when the racers are out, and with the prizes, trophies and such as that for the participants.

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The participants will also have to pay for insurance for the jet ski association nationally,

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because they're racing and so there are expenses and the city has matching funds for non-profit organizations,

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that attract local business to local community and it was my idea to have this

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because I'd like to have some excitement at the Grigata grounds because I

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live there and I'm a full-time resident now and I think it would be a fun

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event that could drop people to the late and that will give us an opportunity

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to maybe showcase the lake and talk about the environmental a little bit, which I think

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Paul and Seth did a good job last August when they held in the way up there and have

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some fun so that we have the jet boat time trials held in October this would be the

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of the season. A little more action than the old guys who put in the jet boats and

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race them and then put them back on and go home. What's the time for the letter of the letter

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support? The next day or two.

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We'd like to get this wrapped up so I can start getting

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So sweatshirt vendors and those things to do, I'm doing this as a volunteer because I

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need some things to be able to do to entertain myself.

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Am I allowed to have a question for you?

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Do you foresee having to close off part of the Laker?

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It'll be closed off in front of the robotic rounds during the time that the races are going

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on Saturday and Sunday and probably Friday to set up the bullies but that's a limited amount

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of time.

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So just go out the front half way out, maybe, but not all the way over here, okay.

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Thank you.

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So anything that I can do, if I facilitate this, I'm going to lean on Seth and Paul to

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direct me to the proper authority and new port that really manages or controls the

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for this day. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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Next door to businesses. Those like plans,

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stuff to be revitalization programs. So I had a meeting that we've been planning with David

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Hawker saying he's the county planner, Wayne Balmont is county attorney and Tony Shear,

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who's the health specialist. And really just to kind of get this program rolling,

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figuring out the roles of each of the agencies of the city and the county who

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So I think we have some consensus there of kind of what the inspector role is going to be,

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what the city role is going to be, what the county role is going to be.

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And I laid that out a little bit in the staff report, just saying that the city will contract

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with someone to do the inspection.

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The inspector will do the inspection, and in that inspection they'll be like these triggers,

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which value DQ rules about what a failing system is.

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If an inspector doesn't inspection, finds a system that's failing,

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that report will go to the county,

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and then the county will follow up on that report.

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And that took months to give to that point,

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but it's pretty simple, and we're now on the same page,

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and Tony and I will be sure that we have those triggers clear,

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and they work for the city and the county.

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The second discussion is about where to start this program, so we've been talking about doing

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like a phased in approach, looked at doing the phased in a lot of, it's in the past, you

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know, proximity to the lake, or water use plus proximity to the lake, plus age of tank, and

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we looked at like a lot of different criteria, and right now, it looks like the city managers,

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the way he would like to begin is looking at properties that are within the city first.

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They said, more jurisdiction over those, I think they feel responsibility because it's within the city.

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Not getting rid of this phasing idea, but just suggesting we start with city properties first.

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And then the third topic that came up was the use of die testing.

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Talked about a whole lot.

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And there's kind of two lines of thought.

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It's going this die testing idea and really this is early on.

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But there's first saying is there a possibility that instead of doing a full inspection and a property we could just use a digest and that would be the entire inspection and then the second conversation was

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Just using die testing as a supplement not a supplement, but having that be a tool as part of a regular inspection

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So where that's going I think it's don't important that we do full inspections

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But we'll kind of see how that's forward and see what the science has to say about it

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If we don't have uh, wasn't Tony Scher at the meeting here a few years back when we were talking to the

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Um, thank you guys, or the county guys, and I thought that discussion came up then and they didn't have much

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positive to say about died testing at the time.

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And that was my understanding of it too because we had this meeting and then sending a people who are saying like,

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no, die testing is extremely effective and then it's like, ah,

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I'm sure, like, a present sure, and then I came back.

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It's like, you remember the same thing that you had to remember.

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So I've done some research on it.

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I got a whole of, like, Randy Trock's ATQ,

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and it seems like everyone says it can be very effective.

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But there are certain situations where it can be a little bit.

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I think the problem is that if you do a diet,

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say that a system is failed.

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It can be very clear that if you do diet tests and you see diet,

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you know the system is failed.

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And I think that the concern that we're going to have, things we look more into this, we're

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going to see, is that based on like Hydro, table issues that we have, based on the way

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that the system's fail here, or I think that they fail directly in, it's just isn't

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very effective at finding those types of failure.

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So I think that's what that work, doing move forward, but we just aren't that forward yet.

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So when do we have, when do we expect you're going to have finalized roles and trigger procedures

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The triggers should move pretty quickly, but as far as this program in general, we're still a farways from it, be honest.

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But the height test I would imagine would cost a lot less, but not necessarily be conclusive.

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It would cost a lot less, correct?

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Yeah, it would be less, and it is easier.

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Please, easier.

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By the way, if it did show that there was a problem I suppose then you'd have to go through the full inspection.

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Yeah, you don't have to find out what is the problem then.

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It could cause even more after that.

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It might have really quickly that with the die test,

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you're going to have to go back there multiple times too.

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And so it might not be deeper,

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because if you have to pay somebody to just keep showing up and feeling well

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that there is, because it can take weeks, you know,

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we've heard so for that to show up.

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And I think what Seth was alluding to,

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It could just disappear into the soil because it's a failed system, it's going straight

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to groundwater.

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And you're not going to see it.

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It's just going to be in the groundwater.

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And those nutrients are still going to be migrating and things like that.

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So I'm pretty cautious on the idea of exclusively using die testing.

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I think it's a good tool.

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And I think for what we calculated about $16 a tank, being it, it has it, I think it makes

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sense.

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But there's another issue with die testing is if you die test six properties, all

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on the same block, and you don't use different color dies,

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which they do have different color dies.

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But at some point you start running at the issue

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of where's the coming from, if you did a show.

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So I don't think it's an exclusive tool to use.

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But I do see where the interest is,

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as people were not wanting to dig a backyards

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to go find the cover of these electric tanks,

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which now you have to have a cover of less than 84,

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or something, you have to have a exposed cover.

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But those ones that we're really concerned about,

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those Phantom ones that we don't know anything about.

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You know, people don't know where they are.

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Maybe in law like this, it'd be good that they did.

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But, you know, they might be under a deck or something,

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and people might be under a situation too in that,

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so I guess that's part of it.

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I had a question too.

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You said that the city right now is looking at starting,

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if they did this, to start in the city.

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Right.

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They wouldn't have to be in the drainage, right?

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Yeah.

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I don't know why sweet would be.

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Okay, yeah.

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So we started with, within the city, within the water.

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And I guess it's their choice.

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I mean, if they want to do city-wide, they could do that too, which wouldn't be a bad.

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Sir, the view?

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What people mean, we talk about it relatively thorough inspection, what constitutes a reasonably thorough inspection, septic system.

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Well, it's really like the three main parts that's checking out the integrity of the septic tank.

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Like the distribution box and then the drain field.

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How do they do that?

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Well, the septic tank, there's different ways to look at it.

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something, you can just look inside of it and get to stand and get like, it's working.

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It's easy to think you need to pump it first.

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Drain field,

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that should be based on like the soil qualities around the drain field.

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It should be pretty clear what's going on there.

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Oh, everything except this is a little murky, but clear enough.

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the feeling I have, but I mean, it'd just be nice to know it.

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Some agreement and what constitutes a reasonably thorough inspection, but I suppose that would come with some people talking mainly just a subject tank though,

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subject tank tank, a box and a drain field, I mean a whole system.

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The D&D, well, because those aren't special and we talked about, to meetings, hopefully aren't special.

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he was requiring.

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Okay,

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DQ rules.

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Yeah, so this is a day video of the letter

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and sent you guys a letter a couple days ago, I think.

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There's a group in the behind who submitted a petition

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to change a segment of DQ rules.

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And that's going to go from the Environmental Quality Commission.

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I think they had a public hearing on it last night.

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And public comment is open to tomorrow.

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And really what they were saying and the petition was saying

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that if even if it's showing that using a standard system

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it's efficient to prevent the pollution of groundwater.

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It should still be allowed to use a standard system

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if the cost of it moving to an advanced treatment system

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is 10% more than standard system.

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That's pretty much a guarantee.

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Pretty much a guarantee it will be more than 10%.

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Yeah, probably.

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Yeah, I would think in most cases.

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So really, I think what's happened to problems with nitrogen in their groundwater, and I think what they're trying to do is really just draw attention to this local problem that they have.

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I really go and see this moving forward.

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There's no way I can move forward, I don't think, but I think it's just important to show the symbolic commission for paying attention to these issues.

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So we just have like a really brief letter that's in front of you that just says

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Moving ahead with this petition would really go it's the entire point of the DQ type program

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So let's see if questions on that

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signing that David we can send it out tomorrow

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Is everybody read this? I guess all I'll make a motion that we go ahead and then do a letter support

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It's second. Okay any discussion all those of you?

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just a clarification letter in opposition maybe a letter in opposition yeah right

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okay vegetation management okay thank you so we've gotten basically I think the third

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draft now of this document this wildlife integrity review board submittal and

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I submitted that to you all gentlemen, but a week ago,

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I got a comment back, I know at least for Brian now.

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And I have a couple of comments, and I wanted basically

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round this up and get this, get a final,

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and get this submitted to him.

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I think I think we're pretty well-prime to get this on the table,

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get it starting the formal initiation of this process

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with ODF and W.

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And so, it could get like basically comments back the rest of the week, submit those to Joe,

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get his final draft, and then have a January copy free to look at for adoption is what

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I was proposing.

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When you say comments, do you want, like, yeah, that's to write up the set of arguments

225
00:19:37,610 --> 00:19:43,470
for doing this, what would serve any additions to the document itself?

226
00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:53,470
So, like, if they're shortcomings of the document or if it goes, you know, if it seems to be long-winded here and you don't think it's important or something, whatever comments improvements really.

227
00:19:54,350 --> 00:20:02,950
Because, I mean, we really want to have this as fine-tune, as possible, and have you all, you know, comfortable with this submittal of it, because it's effectively done in your name.

228
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:09,230
So, and I said this about the third, I think is a third iteration, and so we're pretty

229
00:20:09,230 --> 00:20:09,610
close.

230
00:20:10,190 --> 00:20:13,650
I, you know, one common I had is I just wanted to make sure that there was a little bit

231
00:20:13,650 --> 00:20:21,050
more inclusion of the PSU study that we had done referencing that, you know, through their

232
00:20:21,450 --> 00:20:25,670
search, they didn't find any of the millfoil or the idea, you know, in the lake.

233
00:20:25,930 --> 00:20:29,890
So I wanted that in there, but that was about the only comment that I had.

234
00:20:30,690 --> 00:20:50,730
Well, I was thinking in terms of if I've had these pictures, I took when I first bought my place which was about a year before they put in the carp and just showing the docks, the old docks that were there and all the growth, you know, and you couldn't see more than a couple of inches through the water put into the plants.

235
00:20:50,730 --> 00:21:00,610
I just wondered if that sort of thing, if I submitted something like that along with, you know, this was what it used to be like, we don't want to see that again.

236
00:21:01,330 --> 00:21:03,830
Well, actually, for this part, not the right thing.

237
00:21:03,910 --> 00:21:19,410
Right, yeah, I would think it would be that would be, you know, when, if we get past this review board, then, you know, then basically it's like, okay, now we have the W looks at it formally and then we bring our petition to their commission.

238
00:21:19,410 --> 00:21:24,610
And at that point, when we're in front of the commission, we get to make a presentation.

239
00:21:25,290 --> 00:21:26,410
And people can have public comments.

240
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:30,430
So we can have somebody from the district, Joe Isle, who's making our pitch.

241
00:21:30,930 --> 00:21:35,430
And then there can be public comment, which could include an individual, even though you're on the board.

242
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:36,090
That would have you.

243
00:21:36,430 --> 00:21:39,370
Yeah. And so you can submit stuff as well.

244
00:21:39,630 --> 00:21:43,290
You wouldn't, because they're not going to let other individuals do presentations.

245
00:21:44,090 --> 00:21:46,790
It's just the applicant that makes a presentation.

246
00:21:46,790 --> 00:21:51,870
And people can provide written or oral comment at those meanings.

247
00:21:53,390 --> 00:21:55,450
So I think that would be the time.

248
00:21:55,910 --> 00:22:02,070
And that is the time for the commission to be allowed for the commission to look at

249
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:06,550
this from more of a social and economic component as well.

250
00:22:07,030 --> 00:22:11,550
And so that's when those voices, we want to have those voices out there.

251
00:22:11,950 --> 00:22:14,950
What would you like our final comments to you?

252
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:19,250
before the end of the mind-counter

253
00:22:20,570 --> 00:22:21,610
twenty-first

254
00:22:21,610 --> 00:22:22,750
twenty-second

255
00:22:23,890 --> 00:22:24,410
yeah

256
00:22:30,590 --> 00:22:36,070
that's what i was going to open something i don't know what our January date is but it's probably like the

257
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:39,630
night at least or something so i think that's plenty of time

258
00:22:39,630 --> 00:22:42,150
you know if i get everything back to him

259
00:22:42,150 --> 00:22:48,250
right before the holidays, then he's got two three weeks to make a final and get it back to us

260
00:22:48,250 --> 00:22:52,010
and then I would have that in front of you for January's meeting.

261
00:22:52,790 --> 00:22:58,050
So Paul, just so I understand the process, this is the first submission of this goes to this

262
00:22:58,050 --> 00:23:03,750
wildlife integrity review board. Correct. And then, but the application itself,

263
00:23:05,390 --> 00:23:11,950
and there's a series of questions that apparently are pounded by the wildlife integrity review board

264
00:23:11,950 --> 00:23:17,790
have to be answered for their satisfaction, but then the application for the commission goes

265
00:23:17,790 --> 00:23:18,610
with that?

266
00:23:18,770 --> 00:23:24,250
Yeah, the application would then actually be secondary to that.

267
00:23:25,030 --> 00:23:31,310
So then Joe would prepare that application to the commission, which would reflect this document

268
00:23:31,790 --> 00:23:32,470
by large.

269
00:23:33,090 --> 00:23:33,670
But it could include.

270
00:23:33,930 --> 00:23:39,710
What's right on the stand is the final draft of the application, go with the submission

271
00:23:39,710 --> 00:23:46,370
to the wildlife and take a review board, or is he, yes, the document that we're generating

272
00:23:46,370 --> 00:23:48,290
would be the submittal to them.

273
00:23:55,710 --> 00:23:56,930
Any additional questions?

274
00:23:58,610 --> 00:23:59,190
Brian, sure.

275
00:24:01,390 --> 00:24:09,290
We know back, but submission that the question was whether Joe is suggesting, I think, that he

276
00:24:09,290 --> 00:24:12,110
not attached the devil's leg plan to the application.

277
00:24:13,450 --> 00:24:15,110
I don't think much of that.

278
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:28,330
I really would like it to be clear that the grass carp is not the only thing that we're trying to do,

279
00:24:28,550 --> 00:24:36,310
or not even the focal point of our efforts to restore it in hands and rehabilitate doubles like.

280
00:24:38,150 --> 00:24:41,690
But maybe a happy meeting would be to attach the executive summary.

281
00:24:42,690 --> 00:24:47,870
absolutely and and and there were the reference to the website or the full plan can be

282
00:24:47,870 --> 00:24:50,510
Yeah, I mean I think whatever you're most comfortable with you know

283
00:24:50,510 --> 00:24:55,410
I thought I got that those comments for you and I he does I was you know

284
00:24:56,650 --> 00:25:02,170
Thinking at least like you're saying the exact summary if not I mean, you know the whole document to any of this 72 pages

285
00:25:02,170 --> 00:25:05,610
Which frankly they're probably not gonna weed through too much

286
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:09,090
But if they actually had one top you have it if it's you know

287
00:25:09,090 --> 00:25:13,930
it's it's really goes down to that the forms that they're we're filling out this you

288
00:25:13,930 --> 00:25:17,850
know that whole litany of questions that they had asked that's what they're going to be looking

289
00:25:17,850 --> 00:25:26,530
at the supplemental stuff in in this case in here regard being what I think no was getting at

290
00:25:26,530 --> 00:25:31,690
more that you know photographic kind of evidence but that that plan I think does speak well to

291
00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:37,930
are are are are objectives you know and that they're not just essentially focused on grass

292
00:25:37,930 --> 00:25:44,290
that they're looking at septics and sewers and shoreline vegetation and that sort of thing.

293
00:25:44,450 --> 00:25:51,190
And I just read the executive summary and it makes a nice presentation about grass carp.

294
00:25:51,370 --> 00:25:56,990
It's even handed note. It tells about some of the problems that grass carp in cause,

295
00:25:57,690 --> 00:26:00,870
which, of course, he's trying to address in this new application.

296
00:26:00,870 --> 00:26:07,730
And so, but also talks about the benefits and basically that it's really the only way we can

297
00:26:07,730 --> 00:26:13,870
seriously address macrophytes on a whole-wake level is on.

298
00:26:15,010 --> 00:26:17,210
Yeah, I would want to be clear with him.

299
00:26:17,550 --> 00:26:19,310
And the exact number is three pages long.

300
00:26:19,330 --> 00:26:20,390
Yeah, that's a simple.

301
00:26:22,430 --> 00:26:26,850
So, with the reference to the website where the plan can be viewed in full.

302
00:26:27,610 --> 00:26:28,410
Okay, let's do that.

303
00:26:29,350 --> 00:26:34,850
Okay, and then any other additional comments will hold held at 22nd, is that with the date?

304
00:26:38,990 --> 00:26:39,110
Okay.

305
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:52,520
The developments since our last meeting, first was 26 city council meeting,

306
00:26:55,270 --> 00:26:55,870
the presented

307
00:26:56,830 --> 00:26:57,770
city engineer,

308
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,520
until they had had a chance.

309
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,400
before that meeting, and it was proved as

310
00:27:19,740 --> 00:27:22,120
the council at that meeting, but

311
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:23,460
Quorum and April,

312
00:27:27,100 --> 00:27:28,220
it's passed a month.

313
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:35,100
If in the processes for the council to declare it's intent to

314
00:27:36,140 --> 00:27:41,100
kind of quote the statute, declares intent to make the improvement and the

315
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:44,880
method and manner of doing so by resolution.

316
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:57,140
Now, resolution drafted and presented to the Council, and it was signed and approved at the Monday meeting.

317
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:06,220
The resolution contains the date for the public hearing on the creation of the LED.

318
00:28:06,220 --> 00:28:14,320
And that's been set for January 28th at the January 28th City Council meeting.

319
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:28,150
So urge, please follow all of you who are maybe in favor of the LID to appear and comment

320
00:28:28,150 --> 00:28:35,930
at that being, I assure you that although the opponents are very few, I expect 100% of them

321
00:28:35,930 --> 00:28:36,710
to be there.

322
00:28:39,090 --> 00:28:46,760
So, you know, we need at least some representative showing from the positive

323
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:54,820
side and not to be complacent about this just rolling through because that not is not necessarily

324
00:28:54,820 --> 00:28:55,740
going to be the case.

325
00:28:58,140 --> 00:29:06,340
So, that's where we're at if it is approved by the City Council after

326
00:29:06,340 --> 00:29:15,140
that public hearing, the rest of it really involves the city putting out the bids for contractors,

327
00:29:15,740 --> 00:29:24,160
hiring the contractors, and then making the assessments to the property on is once the job is complete.

328
00:29:28,780 --> 00:29:37,380
So, probably the most important step in this process is the public hearing on January 28th.

329
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,420
a couple of questions for it. I am in favor of this project and I'll say it up front first.

330
00:29:47,420 --> 00:29:51,180
I noticed the letter that you originally sent out.

331
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,000
Reference it was up for you to do it all

332
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,980
for a month, charge for the imprisonment. For 10 years, that came to basically before.

333
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:28,860
This is $300 per house when there's. Now I notice now that it's $6,400 per house, and there's $57 lots. Over 15 years, my question was, it is a question that somebody had, like one may have asked was, when we gained those other, are we some, that worked to work, cost per house when it.

334
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,660
Well, I don't know, 25% anyone from 42 to 49

335
00:30:36,660 --> 00:30:40,520
And 40.300 was original, but took the

336
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:48,080
Infrastructure and a pavement if I had these two 331, 164

337
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:56,980
Well, I don't I don't go nuts that that much. I don't know where but anyway, anyway, I just

338
00:31:03,060 --> 00:31:14,520
It may have, because it may have added a somewhat disproportionate amount of length to the line,

339
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:22,840
because some of those lots are larger than the larger than that, than that would

340
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,360
size a lot, quite a bit larger.

341
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:34,040
You know, I don't know that we can, it would be fair to say we're subsidizing the larger

342
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:35,060
lots.

343
00:31:36,580 --> 00:31:41,960
When they want to hook up, I mean, if they're eligible to be subdivided and they do subdivided,

344
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,480
they're going to have to go ahead and put it next for laterals, because the laterals are included in

345
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:47,580
Right.

346
00:31:48,980 --> 00:31:53,520
So, guys, there's still going to be one hook up for a lot.

347
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:53,840
Right.

348
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,700
In fact, the line is longer.

349
00:31:55,860 --> 00:31:58,440
I mean, there's really no additional benefit to them.

350
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,120
I was just looking for a clarification one.

351
00:32:02,990 --> 00:32:08,610
But on the other, the flip side of it, I noticed that the homeowner costs looks like

352
00:32:08,610 --> 00:32:09,110
it's dropped.

353
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:13,730
because it's approximately $10,000 in the report today.

354
00:32:14,250 --> 00:32:17,310
The original one, $1,900,

355
00:32:21,870 --> 00:32:24,550
we're acquiring a D-1C.

356
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:26,710
That version.

357
00:32:28,670 --> 00:32:28,810
Cheers.

358
00:32:31,660 --> 00:32:37,780
I'm, well, I don't recall what, I mean, with a different,

359
00:32:38,740 --> 00:32:40,940
without having an in front of me, I mean, there's a hole.

360
00:32:41,620 --> 00:32:43,500
Yeah, I think it costs factors in there, right?

361
00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:50,000
charge stayed the same as 5,076 and the grinder pump was 4900 and the installation

362
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:56,120
estimated to on your original. So maybe we just ran it.

363
00:32:58,780 --> 00:33:01,120
If you would be able to.

364
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:06,320
I'll look into that and I'll explain that. I'll just explain the costs and where they came

365
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:14,740
from at the next meeting. I just wasn't prepared to get into that kind of detail. I think

366
00:33:14,740 --> 00:33:22,040
The bottom line though is between the, I get, I guess what you're saying is the cost, the total

367
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:30,840
dollar cost may have increased, I don't think it's been 25 percent, and I think you're

368
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,580
saying it's not overall, it's at 25 percent, but a part of it increased 25, but then

369
00:33:35,580 --> 00:33:42,060
I'm not a part of our decrease, and so it's sort of offset, but anyway, the cost we're pretty

370
00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:44,120
close to what we originally estimated,

371
00:33:46,740 --> 00:33:49,660
and the monthly, I'm sort of seeing most people

372
00:33:49,660 --> 00:33:55,480
are going to add at 4% interest, they're going to want to pay it over time instead of

373
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:03,280
doing it all at once, and I could say the monthly amount of things gone from 43 to 49.

374
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:13,640
So I think we actually did pretty well in terms of estimating original estimate.

375
00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:17,140
matching fairly closely the final.

376
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,700
And by the way, it's not the final yet, because they don't make the specific assessment

377
00:34:23,700 --> 00:34:25,900
isn't done until all the work is done.

378
00:34:27,020 --> 00:34:33,160
And actually, I should say the engineer holds out substantial hope that the

379
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,460
beards will come in for actually less than what he has asked to me.

380
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:39,060
So, there's that.

381
00:34:39,060 --> 00:34:47,520
like I say, I'm still in favor of it. Thanks. Yeah, you bet. Any other questions for Brad?

382
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,540
Communication support, Paul. Okay, I'm gonna actually move the other desk here.

383
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:55,000
All

384
00:35:18,740 --> 00:35:24,100
right, moving over here because on the third part of this I want to reference the internet here

385
00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:31,240
and see if this actually works. But the first part is just announced on the KVCH that we have our

386
00:35:32,620 --> 00:35:38,500
Monthly meeting there held the last one with my father. He retired as I think most of you know

387
00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:42,600
But they do have a new person on staff and so we anticipate

388
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:48,360
filling that the same hour on the third Tuesday the month on KVC HM-1400

389
00:35:50,140 --> 00:35:56,020
Since our last meeting we had that erosion prevention and sediment control summit, which was on October 25th

390
00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:59,220
Was well attended about 35 individuals

391
00:35:59,860 --> 00:36:00,440
three

392
00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:16,900
three vendors. And then this is, I think, the most important thing, and this is the newest and greatest thing for Devil's Lake, Water and Fruit and District, as far as our outreach, and it's that the city has now a streaming live, hopefully.

393
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:28,160
And we're going to test this out here live. And to get to this, this internet feed, you go to wigginscity.org,

394
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:42,280
URL out there like a city.org and you scroll down to Agenda, Packets, and video click on that and then you see

395
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:53,240
it says live 6pm, deal WID board meeting so it's saying what's, you know, the most current thing and what you would see here as you go down through December is

396
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:58,140
meeting and then the upcoming planning commission meeting. So we're just right in that same

397
00:36:58,140 --> 00:37:04,760
calendar queue. And then what they've added to is a link to the agenda and the meetings packet

398
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:13,380
that we have online as well. And then if you click the video, it should bring you up to the actual

399
00:37:13,380 --> 00:37:20,000
event, which we'll do breath at works because this is the first time that we obviously were doing this.

400
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:28,760
And so there you go, you're actually seeing the screen that Charlie's got on the video

401
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:38,060
because if he pans to something else, I think it'll work slowly indicate that we're alive.

402
00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:39,220
It's okay.

403
00:37:39,380 --> 00:37:40,060
Just go ahead and call that.

404
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:42,460
He depends.

405
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,400
So yeah, that's pretty exciting.

406
00:37:47,940 --> 00:37:48,860
You know, it scrolls down.

407
00:37:48,860 --> 00:37:49,500
know.

408
00:37:54,890 --> 00:38:00,350
Well, there we are now. He's changed the camera position. So, thank you, Trevor.

409
00:38:01,070 --> 00:38:07,550
And so, so Paul, I've noticed tonight that the voices have synced up with the picture.

410
00:38:08,410 --> 00:38:12,190
Yeah, there's a little delay on watching the Japanese.

411
00:38:13,210 --> 00:38:18,010
Yeah, there's a little delay between. Actually, we're watching one of the city council meetings

412
00:38:18,010 --> 00:38:29,930
the other night and we have the Internet feed live and the Channel 4 feed and the Channel 4 feeds coming directly or more less as we could assume when there was about a 10-15 second lag between what was going out on the web.

413
00:38:32,190 --> 00:38:45,230
But yeah, he's scrolling around. So the Internet now you're seeing the actually the audience there to even and that's sort of thing. So thanks for sitting for setting this up and look forward to people being able to

414
00:38:48,050 --> 00:38:53,410
And the other thing is it will be data archive to you, it will be for at least some period

415
00:38:53,410 --> 00:38:59,470
of time it will be, you can go back and review or catch back up on the meeting.

416
00:38:59,830 --> 00:39:02,670
So we will go over from our site directly into that page.

417
00:39:03,230 --> 00:39:10,350
Yes, we can, we can actually set up a link back on our web page to do that, you bet.

418
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:19,820
And it might not have to be able to click that video tab and watch it anytime.

419
00:39:20,420 --> 00:39:20,520
Correct.

420
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:21,520
Yep.

421
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,400
So I'm going to close it out so we're not wasting all the CPU resources of this,

422
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:31,700
other when we do our presentation.

423
00:39:32,420 --> 00:39:32,920
Like a little bit.

424
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:35,840
That's, that's a,

425
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,120
a newest and greatest thing.

426
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:39,320
You know, since since coming here,

427
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,240
and getting on channel 4 and now onto the internet,

428
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:48,240
I think it's a lot of improvements for outreach and communication, so pretty exciting stuff.

429
00:39:50,650 --> 00:39:51,330
So, sit you report?

430
00:39:52,990 --> 00:39:59,230
Just a comment there, actually, we've participated a little bit on a salmon rescue on yourselves

431
00:39:59,230 --> 00:40:04,050
like road and I got some safety vests and cotton gloves, cotton gloves, they're important

432
00:40:04,050 --> 00:40:08,830
for the fish handling, so just that's a quick update to that.

433
00:40:19,550 --> 00:40:24,090
Moving on to mid coast, TMDL, I've had a meeting yesterday down a new port for

434
00:40:24,090 --> 00:40:32,510
the full group, full stakeholder group, plus a little subgroup within the bacterial technical

435
00:40:32,510 --> 00:40:33,570
working groups that I'm on.

436
00:40:35,210 --> 00:40:40,050
And nothing really strong update with you all right now on that.

437
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:46,050
The bacteria element we were working on, some outreach components, is to how to communicate

438
00:40:46,050 --> 00:40:50,470
this whole process and what it means to the general public.

439
00:40:50,470 --> 00:41:15,630
And in fact, one of the ideas that I had that we, I might bounce it off you now is to have DQ come to one of our meetings and just give like a 20 minute presentation on the process, it would be then now that it's aired live on an internet and archive, it would be viewables to people across the mid coast, watershed count, you know, the watershed role of the state for that matter, whatever.

440
00:41:16,330 --> 00:41:23,430
So, if that seems like a reasonable use of time, I would like to try to book that.

441
00:41:23,970 --> 00:41:26,670
Maybe 20 minutes, half an hour of your meeting.

442
00:41:27,650 --> 00:41:34,630
January or February, potentially, could be a little bit later, but probably no later than February.

443
00:41:35,710 --> 00:41:43,150
And it would just be talking mostly about the bacteria side of this TMDL because that's what affects our watershed.

444
00:41:44,510 --> 00:42:11,990
But, you know, they'd have a couple of their staff members come down and at least one and present how this is working and, you know, we've been trying to introduce it, you know, to the folks here and we have a present on the web that kind of lays it out, but it's pretty complex and I don't anticipate that in 20 minutes a half an hour that it's going to be crystal clear for everyone either, considering, you know, it's an 18 month process and that's sort of thing.

445
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:14,810
But I thought with the new internet feed,

446
00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:17,070
it would be a good way to do some outreach.

447
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:19,730
So they did have kind of a stakeholder meeting

448
00:42:19,730 --> 00:42:23,770
with some folks up in the Harlan area around the bacteria

449
00:42:23,770 --> 00:42:25,610
side of things, because there's a lot of interest in that.

450
00:42:25,610 --> 00:42:28,890
Relative to some of agricultural lands up there.

451
00:42:30,290 --> 00:42:31,490
And that was pre-successful.

452
00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:35,770
So they're just trying to find other ways to communicate to folks.

453
00:42:37,710 --> 00:42:40,050
Is that a consensus nod there, can I?

454
00:42:40,050 --> 00:42:40,350
Yes.

455
00:42:40,650 --> 00:42:40,850
OK.

456
00:42:41,130 --> 00:42:42,090
I think January is fine.

457
00:42:42,090 --> 00:42:44,050
I think it's better for, and I'm fine.

458
00:42:44,590 --> 00:42:45,210
Thank you.

459
00:42:45,430 --> 00:42:48,330
Was there anything specific from, I guess it's today?

460
00:42:48,910 --> 00:42:50,070
Was it your T.D. ML meeting?

461
00:42:50,290 --> 00:42:51,050
It was yesterday.

462
00:42:52,250 --> 00:42:55,990
And so really, it was on the bacteria side.

463
00:42:57,370 --> 00:43:01,790
It was like, and it was just a short two hour and a half to our meeting

464
00:43:01,790 --> 00:43:05,890
between a few of us on that bacteria twig that we're trying to look at.

465
00:43:06,070 --> 00:43:11,350
These other outreach components, and also how to best represent

466
00:43:11,350 --> 00:43:13,830
and beach water quality data in particular.

467
00:43:15,550 --> 00:43:19,350
And part of the TMD, most of TMD goes up in the hills.

468
00:43:19,850 --> 00:43:21,470
It's like water quality, way up in the hills

469
00:43:21,470 --> 00:43:22,910
and that's where most of the focus is.

470
00:43:23,090 --> 00:43:25,670
But with a bacteria, there's impacts to the beaches.

471
00:43:25,970 --> 00:43:28,670
And so they actually have listed beaches now

472
00:43:29,210 --> 00:43:30,630
throughout the mid coast.

473
00:43:30,910 --> 00:43:34,950
And so how do you communicate the impairment

474
00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:35,770
of the beach?

475
00:43:35,950 --> 00:43:37,410
It was kind of what we're trying to get at.

476
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:39,850
And it's a little complicated

477
00:43:39,850 --> 00:43:47,690
because in order to get the way, the way you technically have to prepare it for the TMBL,

478
00:43:49,490 --> 00:43:55,550
isn't really clear to leave myself in a number of different people, just the way it's stated.

479
00:43:56,450 --> 00:44:00,850
You know, if you have a really high level, you have bacteria that's 10,000, and you need to get

480
00:44:00,850 --> 00:44:08,410
to say a hundred, well, you need a hundred percent reduction. But if you're at two hundred,

481
00:44:08,710 --> 00:44:13,650
you need to get to a hundred, you also need a hundred percent reduction. And so just the way

482
00:44:13,650 --> 00:44:17,790
the math is actually written in the way the after-recorded. So we're just creating like a, well,

483
00:44:17,890 --> 00:44:21,470
let's just call it a ten-fold reduction or something. Anyhow, those are just kind of the nuances

484
00:44:21,470 --> 00:44:23,750
that we're working with yesterday. Okay.

485
00:44:28,100 --> 00:44:31,460
Any questions for Paul? He's in the bull's like road.

486
00:44:31,460 --> 00:44:42,160
Okay, so, the most important part of this is that the county actually has finished their report.

487
00:44:43,500 --> 00:44:45,720
And that's actually live on our website.

488
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:50,960
Now I was going to just pull that up to

489
00:44:55,470 --> 00:44:56,630
deal with the idea that work.

490
00:44:56,730 --> 00:44:59,970
And if you go to our projects page, scroll down.

491
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:12,320
Down a bit, there it is. And then he still was like, road, you see the fish there. And here it is, the feasibility

492
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:21,020
study that was the initial one done on this Texas new. And then what this most recent report is,

493
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:28,260
is this alternative summary analysis, this two megabyte document, that details a four million

494
00:45:28,260 --> 00:45:33,120
dollar fix to that road versus some of the up to 30 million dollar fixes that were proposed

495
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:41,920
in the feasibility study. So this fix, which I've only looked at it once, but I think

496
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:47,160
it's like two bridges, 60 foot span bridges, and then raising the road three feet and

497
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:54,080
widening it to hold the load. So significant fix relative to doing a span, they have, you

498
00:45:55,240 --> 00:46:01,060
600 feet or something across the whole wetland or going around the wetland, you know, all

499
00:46:01,060 --> 00:46:07,060
these other options are about four options in that feasibility study that range from, well,

500
00:46:07,140 --> 00:46:14,060
doing nothing, zero dollars to 30 million. And then the county really couldn't come up with

501
00:46:14,060 --> 00:46:18,780
that money. They have tried to grant it didn't even come close to getting funded. And so now

502
00:46:18,780 --> 00:46:24,600
have this other approach, which is certainly much more reasonable economically and they feel

503
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,240
it's going to be a fix that will last a long time.

504
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:33,880
There are 30 million dollar fixes that we're going to last a really, really long time.

505
00:46:34,260 --> 00:46:41,320
So I mean obviously there's potential of, you know, something not lasting forever, for sure.

506
00:46:41,620 --> 00:46:47,600
But this still is a monumental fix relative to where we are right now, which is basically

507
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:48,660
road this underwater.

508
00:46:50,900 --> 00:46:55,380
So that is moving forward and I just wanted to give people the heads

509
00:46:55,380 --> 00:46:57,040
up as to where to find that information.

510
00:46:58,540 --> 00:47:02,960
30 million so a lot more than 4 million the 4 million is a lot more than I am. So how

511
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:03,720
they going to get that?

512
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:10,860
Well the goal is and it's the work that we're helping fund with the San Pedro Frequ話

513
00:47:10,860 --> 00:47:19,480
council and their coordinator is to go after grant money. And so, if you get a big federal

514
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:24,820
grant though, often you need some local money and that can be state or other local dollars

515
00:47:24,820 --> 00:47:34,240
or more local. So yeah, that's going to be the way forward. And we invested about $5,000 of

516
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:41,520
funds and with the anticipation of also participating in that stakeholder process that would

517
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:48,620
look to find other pots of money. So you're right, $4 million is not pocket change either.

518
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:54,520
And the county doesn't have that either. So that's why they've come up with this more reasonable

519
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:03,780
approach from an economic standpoint, and they've helped fund Catherine Prue, its position there

520
00:48:03,780 --> 00:48:05,700
at the San Francisco Guadalupe Council too,

521
00:48:06,220 --> 00:48:07,900
because they just didn't have the time

522
00:48:07,900 --> 00:48:12,340
to run those grand applications, which are pretty painful.

523
00:48:12,860 --> 00:48:14,340
It's a right of grant for $4 million.

524
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:16,700
They're gonna make it hurt a little bit.

525
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,560
Just say that, it's not a one-page document

526
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,280
and et cetera, et cetera.

527
00:48:22,540 --> 00:48:24,220
As we know, we've had grand applications

528
00:48:24,220 --> 00:48:31,020
for $15,000 that were 120 pages long, so it's a process.

529
00:48:31,020 --> 00:48:34,500
So that's the approach right now.

530
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:43,520
And I think the idea is to look at this as a multi-faceted fix.

531
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:45,820
It's going to fix road access.

532
00:48:45,820 --> 00:48:47,720
It's going to fix salmon access.

533
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,500
And it's not just one pot of money that you

534
00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:53,500
could effectively look for.

535
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,060
So do you want to plug for the salmon?

536
00:49:10,060 --> 00:49:10,880
Oh, yeah.

537
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:21,920
And so, because, you know, obviously this road isn't fixed in December and it's, you know, even if we, even if the money started piling in, it wouldn't be fixed next to December.

538
00:49:22,100 --> 00:49:31,600
So there's going to be some issues with salmon getting across that road for a while yet. And what the Samajra for Guadalucia Council is organized is volunteers.

539
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:53,640
And they've basically been doing that internally and then we've been filling in a little bit here, you know, they, they're, you know, if, if they can get a pool of people that they feel comfortable putting out there, you know, they're not, I don't want to thinking they want like an open request per stay because I think that just makes them uncomfortable.

540
00:49:53,640 --> 00:50:22,080
You're like, oh anybody wants to show up, you show up, but if you're interested, you know, contact, you know, the district or contact them, and then we can find a, you know, find a way if it, if you've got the suitable training, you know, which isn't much, but we need just meet people to be safe, where the vast, you know, use the gloves, do it only during the daytime, follow the protocols that we've kind of set for, sign a waiver, you know, that's where the thing, please contact me and I'll just get that running, that would probably be the district.

541
00:50:23,020 --> 00:50:26,520
Thanks, okay, so we have a little bit of a monitoring.

542
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:28,500
Yeah, I think so.

543
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:36,880
Now, I've got a slide show here, and it's quite long, and so it's probably an hour, frankly,

544
00:50:37,660 --> 00:50:38,580
just to let you know.

545
00:50:39,380 --> 00:50:45,960
Got a lot of information here, and it's put together by myself, Seth, and our former intern,

546
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:56,460
list of Clayton and it looks at the 2012 empowerment regime and first off the changes to this and in some points

547
00:50:56,460 --> 00:51:02,200
you're going to want to follow along in your packets because there's some images that are charts that are

548
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:08,980
going to show up as well on screen. But changes in 2012 is we went for our earliest empowerment date to

549
00:51:08,980 --> 00:51:13,840
not know earlier than June 1st, with the target date of June 15th, which is what we did

550
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:14,900
let this year.

551
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:20,740
To a maximum height of 9.0, and with a promise of doing a lot of occasions to the

552
00:51:20,740 --> 00:51:22,260
we are for land pray for 2013.

553
00:51:22,940 --> 00:51:29,040
Previously, we impounded as early as April 15th, pulse the damage between May 15th and the

554
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:35,980
31st, every other night, to try to facilitate some salmon passage, and then impounded

555
00:51:35,980 --> 00:51:38,240
to a maximum of 9.53 feet.

556
00:51:39,780 --> 00:51:41,680
So the considerations of this review are five

557
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,860
fold, the recreational access, fish and wildlife

558
00:51:43,860 --> 00:51:46,580
septic systems, water quality, and shoreline vegetation.

559
00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:50,600
So just to jump right in, recreational access,

560
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:52,500
we did a boat dock survey.

561
00:51:53,140 --> 00:51:56,340
We surveyed public and private, jurisdictional,

562
00:51:56,380 --> 00:52:01,200
non- jurisdictional docks, and also did a kind of aerial

563
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,440
search to determine which docks would have certainly been pre-1992.

564
00:52:06,140 --> 00:52:08,600
Paul, would you explain what jurisdiction on non-geurstictional?

565
00:52:08,980 --> 00:52:15,920
Sure, yeah, jurisdictional docks are docks built basically on double's lake, and the non-geurstictional

566
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:21,880
docks are built on canals of double's lake or other water bodies, but for our purposes

567
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,920
on canals that are connected to double's lake.

568
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:32,080
And the reason there that line is defined is because when the lake was meandered, when they

569
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:37,800
actually went around the lake and determined what the lake looked like, any lake that was

570
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:45,820
done had that happen, freeingabius to 1859 when the state was formed, all of that property

571
00:52:45,820 --> 00:52:52,020
was given to the state. So if there was a lake that was meandered, such as double's lake, before

572
00:52:52,020 --> 00:52:56,180
state would, then that water body became ownership of a state.

573
00:52:57,220 --> 00:53:03,400
So what we've had since then, say within the insurers, or say Sam Poiner, that canal on

574
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:10,900
Thompson Creek, though in like the ones by, down by the D River, Crystal Lagoon, those

575
00:53:10,900 --> 00:53:19,100
have been carved out of what was then private property in order to provide water access to

576
00:53:19,100 --> 00:53:19,920
those private properties.

577
00:53:20,060 --> 00:53:22,740
So those areas are non-juristic to the state.

578
00:53:27,660 --> 00:53:34,640
Okay, so just as a kind of a, you know, of a preview, that was like Shao, you know,

579
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:42,800
that was like his on average 8 feet deep. So, you know, it's certainly along the shorelines,

580
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,860
you're going to have some Shao deps. That being said, people have been recreating on

581
00:53:46,860 --> 00:53:52,300
that was like since the 20s, early on, those photos are coming out of the 20s and 30s.

582
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,420
So, we know that there's a lot of water out of there, but this boat doctor of a tries to

583
00:53:56,420 --> 00:54:01,320
look at the water depths right at. There's existing dogs. The methods that we used, we did

584
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:06,980
depth soundings using, and this doesn't show up too well because it's a dark screen there,

585
00:54:07,260 --> 00:54:12,980
but there's this staff here that Seth is showing against the boat. So there's this staff that's running

586
00:54:12,980 --> 00:54:20,380
right here and basically extending it safe from the edge of a boat dock which would have been like

587
00:54:20,380 --> 00:54:26,260
right here and then where basically the motor would sit and so that would be the depth of water

588
00:54:26,260 --> 00:54:27,960
than we would record on the staff.

589
00:54:28,860 --> 00:54:34,320
We did all the docks that were listed by DSL, which included a lot of non-jure-stictional docks

590
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:35,720
because of their survey.

591
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:45,240
They did not do the canal system at Crystal Lagoon either did we because those are 10 to

592
00:54:45,240 --> 00:54:50,620
be first off the waters all very shallow in there, through infilling over the years.

593
00:54:51,260 --> 00:54:53,320
But most importantly, there aren't really a lot of docks.

594
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:58,180
we did the inner kind of the dead end canal, but we didn't do the horses you canal.

595
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:06,340
So then we recorded one measurement basically where we expected to see about or where we did see the

596
00:55:06,340 --> 00:55:13,620
boat and we recorded it at the spot where the motor would be setting. The deepest navigational need there.

597
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:20,180
And then in a lot of cases we tried to collect a second optional mortgage spot. So we have a preference

598
00:55:20,180 --> 00:55:26,540
more edge and an optional more edge. And then we got the lengths of these structures through

599
00:55:26,540 --> 00:55:33,480
satellite imagery as shown here. So, for instance, 71 feet is the length of the stock here,

600
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:39,260
based on this satellite image. And then this shows the preference spot that we would have measured

601
00:55:39,260 --> 00:55:45,140
right at the end of, we're actually, we can look closely, there's actually a boat lift in that

602
00:55:45,140 --> 00:55:59,420
So we, so this would be our preference spot and then we also recorded one out here if, if this was say shallower, for instance.

603
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:06,340
Calculations for these data went through first normalization.

604
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:14,820
So if we recorded the data and the lake level is 8.8 feet or something, then we took that depth.

605
00:56:14,820 --> 00:56:18,580
and then normalize it to 9.53 feet,

606
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,480
3.9.0 and 8.6 feet.

607
00:56:23,540 --> 00:56:32,060
We added this 8.6 foot option because last meeting we had heard of off camera after a public comment

608
00:56:32,060 --> 00:56:33,160
that heard some comments about.

609
00:56:33,380 --> 00:56:37,900
We should really look at this because at 9-0, if you said it at 9-0, then you have the

610
00:56:37,900 --> 00:56:40,080
evaporation and then you actually get down to 8-6.

611
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,500
So we normalize it for that other component as well.

612
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:46,560
And then we have the optional mortgage site.

613
00:56:47,300 --> 00:56:48,380
Took those data.

614
00:56:48,660 --> 00:56:52,460
We got the mean, which is your average, your arithmetic average,

615
00:56:52,460 --> 00:56:53,220
the mean.

616
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,380
We have the median, which is that middle point.

617
00:56:56,500 --> 00:56:59,500
So if you had 100 data points, it would be that 50th doc.

618
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:01,860
And so it's often close to me.

619
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,120
It's not directly the mean, though.

620
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:08,360
The mode, which is the most common height that you would have got

621
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,380
or depth, not very informative, but it's recorded there.

622
00:57:11,380 --> 00:57:22,580
And then the standard deviation, and standard deviations, basically, this graph here is, this is the, what is called the normal distribution or a Gaussian curve.

623
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:32,200
And so this zero point in the middle is the mean that's your average depth or average data point within a data set.

624
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:44,020
One standard deviation away from the mean, plus or minus, and then you basically have 68% of the data are in that zone.

625
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:51,100
If you go out two standard deviations away from the mean, you're capturing 95% of the sample.

626
00:57:52,220 --> 00:57:59,940
Now, this is most important for when you do a survey and actually doing a sample of a full population.

627
00:57:59,940 --> 00:58:08,820
So if you want to do a sample of this dox survey, you may have just done half of them or 10 or 20% of them randomly.

628
00:58:10,420 --> 00:58:19,880
What the standard deviations are used for is to determine how closely you're actually going to mimic the population, the full survey, if you hadn't done the full survey.

629
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,320
We actually did the full survey. So by this, they're still pretty informative.

630
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:30,760
So, results, and then this is just showing the standard deviation again, or this Gaussian curve.

631
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:37,200
So, if you can imagine you're going to have a few percentage points that are in the shallow spot, just tipping this on its end.

632
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:45,080
And then your average dev, say if it's, say it's three feet right there in the middle, and then you're going to have another few percent that are going to be much deeper than that.

633
00:58:45,080 --> 00:59:04,300
And so that's what it's showing is this deep red would be 68% of the populations of the sample and then between the orange and the orange and the other orange that's 95.5% of the all of the docs out there.

634
00:59:04,300 --> 00:59:11,920
So, 393 structures were surveyed, 175 were boat motorboat docks, 114 were small craft docks,

635
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:16,400
and 91 were jurisdictional small craft docks, which we talked about, the jurisdictional element,

636
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:26,720
and 14 were piers, and I broke this out, this 175, and the small docks, based on the length of the dock.

637
00:59:27,380 --> 00:59:32,940
And it is arbitrary, but what the goal was was to, because the state doesn't have a designation for smaller,

638
00:59:32,940 --> 00:59:34,940
or peers or what have you.

639
00:59:35,500 --> 00:59:38,960
Well, my goal was to clearly show,

640
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:41,220
okay, these are structures that are meant

641
00:59:41,220 --> 00:59:42,340
to hold a motorboat dock.

642
00:59:42,580 --> 00:59:44,600
It's pretty apparent, especially when you see

643
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,140
those horseshoe-shaped docks, and you've got that boat well,

644
00:59:48,660 --> 00:59:50,300
that's, somebody's trying to put a boat there.

645
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:52,880
So let's make sure that that's no one

646
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:53,900
is a motorboat dock.

647
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:56,700
Versus if you just have a little fishing pier,

648
00:59:56,780 --> 00:59:59,080
which we talked about before, you know,

649
00:59:59,520 --> 00:59:59,960
we don't know what to do.

650
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:07,320
Uses are for though, but we know that that one is shorter, you know, it's 20 feet or less, and it's just trying to provide you more information.

651
01:00:09,180 --> 01:00:16,200
Public accesses, we have three fully accessible accesses around that was Lake. We're got a grounds home's road and he still was Lake State Park.

652
01:00:16,660 --> 01:00:25,980
All of which had greater than three feet of water depth than all the counter depth. Good, good recreational access through the public fully improved accesses.

653
01:00:25,980 --> 01:00:31,920
The other lesser developed access, say, first street and standpoint, those are typically kayak launchables.

654
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:39,540
You see a few fishing boats going out of those, either way accessible through our determination.

655
01:00:41,060 --> 01:00:44,220
So this is where it gets messy, for visually messy.

656
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:50,920
Table one, which is in your packet, says it's a doc structures, doc structures, statistics, by classification,

657
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:55,080
at primary, which is this first column, and optional

658
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,560
more insights. This is this full second column.

659
01:00:59,380 --> 01:01:02,080
And there's a note in here that these data are

660
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:06,120
conservatively measured, which so if we had a

661
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,920
depth sounding and it was like, you know, three feet and

662
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:13,560
might have been three and a third, you know, we said it was

663
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,560
three feet. We rounded down in all cases.

664
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:19,500
And we are increments are by three inch increments.

665
01:01:19,500 --> 01:01:21,820
So three feet, three inches.

666
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:24,760
Well, we would have rounded that one down to three feet.

667
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:28,860
So there's a little bit of bias towards the homeowner.

668
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:33,020
And that respect, if that was, we look at it as the preference there.

669
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:39,560
And then also, these data are skewed for the mean and the median,

670
01:01:39,980 --> 01:01:43,320
because when we were recording and we were out at a doctor,

671
01:01:43,620 --> 01:01:45,020
it was greater than five feet.

672
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:46,720
Well, you saw that device in the first light.

673
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:48,760
It would sink and would be underwater.

674
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,820
we didn't actually get anything. We didn't have a way of accurately determining

675
01:01:52,820 --> 01:01:59,060
depth greater than 5 feet. So we called all of those 5 feet, 3 inches and so

676
01:01:59,060 --> 01:02:03,860
that is what's figured in the mean and the median. So it basically skews the

677
01:02:03,860 --> 01:02:12,480
data a little bit to the left as well. Okay, so from these findings, so

678
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:19,920
Okay, the first column is the preference, the second column is the optional, and then within those, we have depth

679
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:28,500
normalize to this 9.53, normalize to the 9.0, normalize to the 8.6, and similarly at the optional docking areas.

680
01:02:29,380 --> 01:02:36,840
So for all structures, the mean for the maximum component at 9.53 is 3.63 feet.

681
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:45,780
Okay, now bear in mind that this is same 6-3 even though our, like I said, our measurements are at 3-inch increments.

682
01:02:46,060 --> 01:02:51,200
So there's a bit of significant figures, we actually look at the way you actually do statistics.

683
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,840
That is a little bit not represented well.

684
01:02:56,360 --> 01:03:01,540
I believe the 100's placed on here because it's just the way we should show them up.

685
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:03,900
You'll see that more readily in the second slide.

686
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:17,780
So, the mean for all structures 365, the 3.63 feet at 9 feet, it's 3.10 feet and then 2.7 feet is the mean at 8.6.

687
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:24,940
So that means that and I'm going to use the second one because it's very simple.

688
01:03:26,180 --> 01:03:28,840
The second row here is the motorboats structure.

689
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:34,080
So there's 175 of those, as we mentioned, the mean depth for all those motorboats structures

690
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:38,840
was 4.08 feet at that depth.

691
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:45,420
At the 9.0 depth, 3.55 makes sense, you subtract a half of foot, and then you subtract

692
01:03:45,420 --> 01:03:47,840
another four tenths, and it's 3.15.

693
01:03:48,900 --> 01:03:54,640
Now to figure in that standard deviation, so from this figure down here, so that mean,

694
01:03:54,640 --> 01:04:01,960
And let's just pick on the 8.6, the mean, at 8.6 is 3.15.

695
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:07,880
So plus or minus 1 foot, because that's what the standard deviation actually is.

696
01:04:08,020 --> 01:04:10,180
It's 1.00 in that data set.

697
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:12,760
Plus or minus 1 foot.

698
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:23,360
So between 4.15 and 2.15 feet, 68% of the docs, the motorboat docs are in that population.

699
01:04:24,660 --> 01:04:26,860
That's how you read the standard deviation.

700
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:33,940
The small crafts, slightly less water, typically under those, you have a mean depth of 3.08,

701
01:04:35,180 --> 01:04:40,160
2.55 at the 9-0 and then 2.15 at 8.6.

702
01:04:40,820 --> 01:04:53,340
The small crafts are additional, though, bumps that up a little bit, because a lot of those

703
01:04:53,340 --> 01:05:00,540
And then for pears, which, you know, I thought I tried to section off the pears because I thought you might have just a shallow thing.

704
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:03,980
Well, pears actually tend to be deeper than the smaller craft boats.

705
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:10,000
So there's not a real clear line, but they're actually only out to 20 feet, the pears.

706
01:05:10,460 --> 01:05:16,560
So some of these pears are in deeper water than the ones that go out 20-30 feet.

707
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:22,040
And potentially, a single peer might be deeper than one that went out 35 feet.

708
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:26,460
It's just a, you know, just depending on the sediment underneath the lake.

709
01:05:27,940 --> 01:05:34,360
So yeah, there's a lot of data there, and you've had it in your packet there too, so we'll

710
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:34,780
move on.

711
01:05:34,900 --> 01:05:37,560
And we can come back to the next thing, too, if we want.

712
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:44,720
So table two in your packet shows doc structures by number and by percent total that have

713
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:50,460
depths to the sediment of less than three feet based on those three different scenarios.

714
01:05:50,460 --> 01:05:59,140
And then they're also categorized by motorboat docs or small craft and peers as we mentioned before.

715
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:02,220
This is showing half of that cable.

716
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:07,160
But what's key about this is that 3.00 feet that I mentioned before.

717
01:06:07,900 --> 01:06:12,460
So we subtracted 3.00 feet from a value.

718
01:06:13,180 --> 01:06:19,700
And the reason that's important is if you had a doc that was when it was measured,

719
01:06:19,700 --> 01:06:27,760
say the height of the lake was 9.12 or let's just let's do it 9.03. The lake level is 9.03

720
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:34,240
was to say that and you measured that at 3 feet because you rounded down to you rounded a

721
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:40,320
little bit down. So it's 3 feet deep though with your chance 3 feet deep at 9.03 feet. Now if

722
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:49,040
you normalize that to 9 feet you have to subtract that 0.03. So now that depth at your normalized

723
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:55,740
value, the 9 foot height is 2.97. It's really not much different than 3 feet, but it gets

724
01:06:55,740 --> 01:07:02,600
put in the, it gets in the count. And so, when I was going through these data, I saw a lot

725
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:08,180
of this 2.97 and I thought, well, that's not representing what's out there very well. And I

726
01:07:08,180 --> 01:07:13,200
thought, well, maybe I should, you know, do some rounding so that things are either, you

727
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:17,940
know, coming in where you might expect them. That got to be more complicated than it was

728
01:07:18,620 --> 01:07:22,620
and so I just went with the raw data minus this 3.00.

729
01:07:24,980 --> 01:07:27,360
And then also as I mentioned before, the significant figures,

730
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:33,400
we started with three inches, which is actually 0.25 feet, right?

731
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,860
Well, because you're only using one significant figure,

732
01:07:37,060 --> 01:07:39,060
your accuracy is only 0.3 feet.

733
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,700
So when you start looking at that, that one figure that was 2.97,

734
01:07:44,940 --> 01:07:51,400
that actually, statistically, that value should be three feet regardless, but yet it would still

735
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:58,120
get counted as one. So I just want you to be aware of that because it tends to show up

736
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:02,020
that there's some, because you're subtracting these hundreds of place and then you're actually

737
01:08:02,020 --> 01:08:10,700
only measuring two, you know, three inches. Okay. All right. But given that, 28% of the sample was

738
01:08:10,700 --> 01:08:14,640
less than, in less than three feet of water at nine at the maximum

739
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:15,200
in parliament.

740
01:08:17,460 --> 01:08:25,840
So, and then 44% were in that same capacity at the 9.0, and then at less than 8.6, there's

741
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:26,640
58%.

742
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:34,000
Now, those numbers seem high, but if you go back to this normalized curve, it really makes sense,

743
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:42,500
Because when you see the average, and let's use one that's right around three feet,

744
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:46,620
here's 3.12.

745
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:53,000
So for all structures, that means that 50% of those are less than 3.12.

746
01:08:53,860 --> 01:08:54,500
Generally,

747
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:03,300
the median is actually the median is actually the one, they're close.

748
01:09:03,300 --> 01:09:10,780
So, more or less though, you still have 50% that are going to be less than that, and 50% are going to be more than that.

749
01:09:11,340 --> 01:09:21,120
So, when you see numbers like 28, 44 and 58, well that makes sense because the mean was basically 3.2 or something, whatever it was.

750
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:33,760
So, then what I did is I also looked at all structures at the optional side, and you see that because these include the marinas and the Botox

751
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:39,020
or the boat houses, which gets subtracted out of this, boat houses were very complicated to get

752
01:09:39,020 --> 01:09:39,580
data on.

753
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:47,640
So, the all structures data is less informative, at least to me, as to what's out there,

754
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:54,340
because we're measuring at the edge of the ramp, or where do you actually get that motor,

755
01:09:54,820 --> 01:10:01,360
that boat dock ramp, or boat house combo data, and what's underneath it, we don't

756
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:08,120
the structure. So that's why it was the original push to find out dig deeper to look at these

757
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:17,120
from motorboats and other docks. So for motorboats only at the full empowerment, 14 percent, 24

758
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:27,900
out of 324 out of 175 are in less than 3.000 feet of water. 50 out of this 175 at the 9 out

759
01:10:27,900 --> 01:10:34,620
and 78 or about 45% in when you move down to 8.6, which is more or less the natural

760
01:10:34,620 --> 01:10:38,560
height of the lake from what our knowledge is as well.

761
01:10:38,980 --> 01:10:43,080
And then there's the optional one too, so in the option you get a lot better, there's

762
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:50,460
more water out there on the other side of the dock often, so that 14% turns to 11% the 29% to 25%

763
01:10:50,460 --> 01:10:53,200
and the 45% to 41%.

764
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:58,860
for the jurisdictional, it doesn't change it because they're all jurisdictional in that respect.

765
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:05,800
And this is actually the slide to kind of reiterate that jurisdictional point. So from 1962,

766
01:11:06,480 --> 01:11:12,500
this area here in your standpoint was land or a wet land of some sort, and then in 1977,

767
01:11:12,740 --> 01:11:18,740
some developer came along and carved that out. And that's why that water is non- jurisdictional.

768
01:11:21,110 --> 01:11:32,550
Table 2 continued. So small crafts, 57 out of the total 114, right at 50% are in less than

769
01:11:32,550 --> 01:11:40,310
water at full empowerment. That number goes to 67% and 76% relative to 9.0 and 8.0 and

770
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:45,730
8.0 and 8.0 and 8.0 respectively. At the option spot, it's more favorable to the small

771
01:11:45,730 --> 01:11:51,710
box because, you know, what we see is, okay, it looks like they would prefer to park it here,

772
01:11:51,810 --> 01:11:56,370
but if they park it at the end of that period or a small dock, you know, you're going to be

773
01:11:56,370 --> 01:12:02,510
a lot of deeper water. So typically a lot more favorable if there's a more

774
01:12:02,510 --> 01:12:11,890
edge change. Basically down from the 76% that was as high as 76% for the 8.6

775
01:12:11,890 --> 01:12:15,550
feet at the option it's down to 32%. So that's that's significant.

776
01:12:18,130 --> 01:12:19,750
Then we had the

777
01:12:19,750 --> 01:12:28,370
small docks with jurisdictional and optional, and that shows a little bit different data

778
01:12:28,370 --> 01:12:29,190
to you there.

779
01:12:30,590 --> 01:12:35,090
The next section, though, is the pears, which there are only 14, what I was calling pears,

780
01:12:35,250 --> 01:12:41,990
20 feet or less, of structure out over the water, not structure from the land, but out

781
01:12:41,990 --> 01:12:43,010
from the water's edge.

782
01:12:43,830 --> 01:12:51,130
14 of those structures, 36 percent, 5 out of 14 are in less than 3 feet of water at the

783
01:12:51,130 --> 01:12:55,850
full empowerment, and then it goes up to 10 at either 90 or 8.6.

784
01:12:56,030 --> 01:13:01,590
Not really any change then to either with the option, because that was just where there

785
01:13:01,590 --> 01:13:02,010
was measured.

786
01:13:03,950 --> 01:13:12,150
So the other thing we try to do is look at these structures pre and post-impellment, and the

787
01:13:12,150 --> 01:13:18,230
The best photo we had was from 1992, I showed this in May, and I used this slide in May

788
01:13:18,230 --> 01:13:24,390
because it was the one that had the best of those 92 pictures, the 92 pictures are like a collage.

789
01:13:24,810 --> 01:13:28,490
Some of the areas don't show up very well, so this one was a very clear one.

790
01:13:29,790 --> 01:13:35,910
And so in that comparison, there are 39 structures that were built pre-1992.

791
01:13:35,910 --> 01:13:41,750
And by and large, the structures are almost replicated by this area in 2007.

792
01:13:42,850 --> 01:13:45,550
So there's two additional docs built in that time.

793
01:13:46,390 --> 01:13:51,050
And we said back in May that this is probably a little bit overreference of being the whole lake,

794
01:13:51,650 --> 01:13:55,730
because this is a shot of Neotsu, which was certainly built out.

795
01:13:55,830 --> 01:14:00,070
You have parts of the east side of Lake where more built out say in the 90s.

796
01:14:00,070 --> 01:14:03,530
but Nioce who was certainly covered as with Muscle Lake

797
01:14:03,530 --> 01:14:05,770
and you'll see the totals here.

798
01:14:06,410 --> 01:14:12,330
In fact, 60 to 90, depending on the aerial clarity.

799
01:14:13,230 --> 01:14:19,810
So at the low-end 60 up to 90 structures were built after 1992,

800
01:14:20,850 --> 01:14:25,810
so basically 1 and 4 or 1 and 6, depending on which one

801
01:14:25,810 --> 01:14:28,650
used for the table I used the 90.

802
01:14:28,650 --> 01:14:34,030
So, the table favors those that were not, not conclusive.

803
01:14:34,330 --> 01:14:38,850
So, they're showing, you know, there's 78 of the 90 here in one example.

804
01:14:38,950 --> 01:14:46,230
And this, first example, that are less than 3 feet of water in at 9.53,

805
01:14:46,770 --> 01:14:49,910
which is 20% of the original sample.

806
01:14:52,070 --> 01:14:58,290
So, when you look at this sheet, you can see structures that are built after 1992,

807
01:14:58,290 --> 01:14:59,890
and how they represent.

808
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:25,140
To the whole, the full count. So 78 in 393 is 20%. 16 in, I think there was 175 motorboats, so 9% and the like. And then small craftboats, I think we had 114 or something. So 38 in 114 or 133% and so forth.

809
01:15:28,790 --> 01:15:34,350
And then the other thing that we kind of wanted to double check on is this idea of safe

810
01:15:34,350 --> 01:15:34,730
mortgage.

811
01:15:35,210 --> 01:15:40,070
And so it was my interpretation that there was this magic number of three feet.

812
01:15:41,110 --> 01:15:44,870
As it turns out, there's nowhere in state statute, anywhere that says that.

813
01:15:45,450 --> 01:15:53,070
What the county has, what the state has is they say you can go out to, I think, 25% of

814
01:15:53,070 --> 01:15:54,670
the width of the stream.

815
01:15:54,670 --> 01:16:00,510
And for double slag, that means you can go out quite a ways and I think the cap is at 500 feet.

816
01:16:01,410 --> 01:16:06,950
So, the state would allow you, I think, is that, you know, provided the county doesn't supersede that,

817
01:16:06,950 --> 01:16:09,870
which the county does in our case, to go out up to like 500 feet.

818
01:16:10,070 --> 01:16:11,230
Well, nobody's going out 500 feet.

819
01:16:11,370 --> 01:16:13,610
We do as people go out to 100 feet though.

820
01:16:14,390 --> 01:16:17,010
We had a couple out of 190s, 80s.

821
01:16:17,050 --> 01:16:21,330
I know there's a new dog, 78 full at long dog, I think it was.

822
01:16:22,830 --> 01:16:30,050
So, but what the county allows is 50 feet. Provided, you don't need any more depth. If you need more

823
01:16:30,050 --> 01:16:34,430
depth, then you go through a conditional use process. And you can get more depth provided

824
01:16:34,430 --> 01:16:39,470
you're not blocking navigation or your neighbors don't object too much basically. It comes

825
01:16:39,470 --> 01:16:47,110
out of those two components. So, this idea of safe mortgage really goes back to what was

826
01:16:47,110 --> 01:16:53,750
Built by the owner and their needs of that for that for their vessel at the time. They were building it

827
01:16:54,190 --> 01:16:57,650
So Sony built a boat in 1952 and they had a small fishing boat

828
01:16:57,650 --> 01:17:02,530
They might have built a boat that was or a dock that went out 20 feet because that was plenty of water for them

829
01:17:03,970 --> 01:17:11,010
But in 1992 that might have traded in hands and someone's got a little different vessel and they're parking it at that same boat structure and

830
01:17:11,690 --> 01:17:14,950
They might feel like they're not having as much access well

831
01:17:14,950 --> 01:17:22,730
It just goes back to the economics or the desires of the original owner, and so I mean those are just the facts out there.

832
01:17:25,570 --> 01:17:35,010
So the other thing that we did is we collected information on boat lifts, and this was actually pre-surprising to me, because we had 67 boat lifts on those legs.

833
01:17:35,990 --> 01:17:42,390
Now these are lifts that are these more fancy newer ones that you're familiar with, aqua lift, I think is one brand I know,

834
01:17:42,390 --> 01:17:50,350
or as old as the 50s, 60s, 80s kind of technology with a little big wheel, anywhere we saw left, we recorded it.

835
01:17:51,110 --> 01:17:53,910
And so, 67 on the lake, quite a few.

836
01:17:56,310 --> 01:18:01,450
9 are in less than 3 feet of water at 9.53 or 13%.

837
01:18:01,450 --> 01:18:04,930
That number goes up to 27% and 55% at 8.6.

838
01:18:04,930 --> 01:18:11,990
Now, we did get one complaint and another anecdotal complaint that was registered to you.

839
01:18:12,690 --> 01:18:17,810
And so I spoke to the person at AquaLifter because that was the complaint it had, one of those machines.

840
01:18:19,570 --> 01:18:22,990
And he said that, you know, these machines are quite variable or flexible.

841
01:18:24,170 --> 01:18:27,510
You can adjust them by, they're like a bed frame, it's how we described it.

842
01:18:27,930 --> 01:18:30,270
And that, you know, people might scoop out the sentiment for more depth.

843
01:18:30,270 --> 01:18:59,250
Okay, so these are, you know, these are good selling points for his equipment and, you know, good, good to know, but they are free standing and movable, so for that structure, at least for that structure, we know that there's some capacity for change if need be, but what struck me is that, you know, if, if we have 55% of these structures at eight, six that are, which is about what we're like went to naturally this year, right?

844
01:18:59,250 --> 01:19:06,410
got down to eight seven. 55% are less than three feet of water. Well, we would have thought

845
01:19:06,410 --> 01:19:12,150
we would have gotten maybe 37 phone calls. Well, maybe they didn't have our phone number,

846
01:19:12,230 --> 01:19:16,610
but I think they probably could have found it. But we didn't. And so what I was curious about

847
01:19:16,610 --> 01:19:22,390
is why, and I happened to look back through some stuff that Alyssa was scanning just by

848
01:19:22,390 --> 01:19:27,030
chance, and I came up with this manager report, this copy of this manager report from 2003,

849
01:19:27,030 --> 01:19:39,930
which showed that on the first of July, the lake level was 9.24 feet using the old stage.

850
01:19:40,450 --> 01:19:45,310
So that actually, when you recalculated, it would be 9.44 feet.

851
01:19:45,990 --> 01:19:51,790
That lake level dropped down to 8.66 feet or basically 8.86 feet by August.

852
01:19:52,650 --> 01:19:55,090
And I was in the manager there, Laurie Campbell was the manager.

853
01:19:55,250 --> 01:20:00,310
I don't know, her phone was ringing off the hook or not, but this was the same late bubble

854
01:20:00,310 --> 01:20:03,430
that was in 2003 that we had this summer.

855
01:20:03,730 --> 01:20:06,830
So I just wanted to point that out because I think it's a interest.

856
01:20:08,270 --> 01:20:13,710
And then I think we're going to close to the last of the boat stuff and we're on about 20 minutes

857
01:20:13,710 --> 01:20:14,270
of an hour.

858
01:20:14,510 --> 01:20:16,250
So we're going to keep firing away.

859
01:20:18,470 --> 01:20:21,650
What's important for you to realize is this is a mucky substrate.

860
01:20:22,470 --> 01:20:24,970
Devils Lake is mostly unconsolidated muck.

861
01:20:27,150 --> 01:20:28,570
That muck moves around.

862
01:20:29,770 --> 01:20:35,250
And what we may actually see by virtue of wave action that is going to come in.

863
01:20:36,330 --> 01:20:40,410
As you remember from the Tetrotech report, you get a wave that say,

864
01:20:40,410 --> 01:20:49,750
So let's just keep it the mass simple, that is three feet tall, big wave, winter-sized

865
01:20:49,750 --> 01:20:51,270
wave, okay, three foot wave.

866
01:20:52,330 --> 01:20:57,070
The deepest that that's going to scratch the bottom is, I think keep the mass that's

867
01:20:57,070 --> 01:21:05,050
simple today, is it like almost four feet, because it's 1.25 times three feet.

868
01:21:05,270 --> 01:21:09,490
That's as far as it's going to reach down and can hit, that's where it's coming ashore.

869
01:21:09,490 --> 01:21:18,310
So, when you're moving water, when the energy is moving, it's not going to touch the bottom until it's 1.25 times the way flight.

870
01:21:18,730 --> 01:21:24,930
So, in the big events, the three-foot events, your scouring capacity is little to say it's 4 feet deep.

871
01:21:25,790 --> 01:21:35,430
That is, if your lake level is now a foot higher, you're not going to scour until you hit that four-foot depth, which might be up-up-up-land.

872
01:21:35,430 --> 01:21:41,650
And so the sediment is not going to be getting scoured away and therefore can deposit.

873
01:21:42,230 --> 01:21:48,090
And so effectively by changing a high-than-a-lake, you actually can allow sediment to come

874
01:21:48,090 --> 01:21:50,310
into where it was three feet.

875
01:21:51,090 --> 01:21:57,250
Now you've gone up and thought you created four feet, but yet because the wave action isn't

876
01:21:57,250 --> 01:22:01,110
going to move that sediment, the mud can kind of slip in there and you actually make it

877
01:22:01,110 --> 01:22:02,090
a zero gain.

878
01:22:02,690 --> 01:22:03,670
Does that make sense?

879
01:22:04,630 --> 01:22:04,850
No.

880
01:22:06,990 --> 01:22:15,130
So you have a wave and it's a bit like the maximum waves strength that we have to have three

881
01:22:15,130 --> 01:22:21,050
foot scouring, wind wave or a boat wave, which we saw that a boat wave and we can throw

882
01:22:21,050 --> 01:22:24,790
at least at 2 and a quarter or 2 and a half foot wave. I can't remember what it was from the

883
01:22:24,790 --> 01:22:33,910
report, but that wave can only reach down and affect the sediment in the bottom by a factor

884
01:22:33,910 --> 01:22:37,170
of 1.25 times it's original height.

885
01:22:37,990 --> 01:22:43,670
So if it's this deep, it can only scour down and we'll show you a little bit further

886
01:22:43,670 --> 01:22:44,590
than that.

887
01:22:46,450 --> 01:22:51,470
So the way the bottom is maintained is through that scouring.

888
01:22:52,330 --> 01:22:59,150
And so if it's scouring away, as the wave crashes, it's going to be depositing or scraping

889
01:22:59,150 --> 01:23:03,690
away soil based on the energy getting dissipated on the shoreline or not.

890
01:23:04,190 --> 01:23:08,570
As it's coming in and it starts to hit the bottom, it's going to tend to wheel underneath

891
01:23:08,570 --> 01:23:11,790
there and want either way, the sediment.

892
01:23:12,830 --> 01:23:17,590
Now if you bring the height of the lake up, it's not going to wheel away and either way until

893
01:23:17,590 --> 01:23:20,690
it gets further on shore, some more.

894
01:23:20,950 --> 01:23:28,490
Yeah, and so the sediment here that was deeper now may in fact get the scouring happens

895
01:23:28,490 --> 01:23:32,870
The fear and it may pull it down and lay it where it was already getting scoured.

896
01:23:33,250 --> 01:23:39,390
So you can actually, you know, your slope is going to try to get more and more or less that

897
01:23:39,390 --> 01:23:44,830
like the slope of the shore that it was previously, but now you're just doing it up here

898
01:23:44,830 --> 01:23:46,750
because the lake level is up there.

899
01:23:47,210 --> 01:23:55,350
And that's certainly a consideration with, you know, the real tools out there, this wind action

900
01:23:55,350 --> 01:23:59,730
and there's boat wave action which are manipulating the sediment. The other bits that

901
01:23:59,730 --> 01:24:06,530
manipulate the sediment are just the boats. Because we have a sample out there and

902
01:24:06,530 --> 01:24:13,590
there would be one dock that was foot and a half of them and then it was in muck. The next

903
01:24:13,590 --> 01:24:18,430
boat dock which is a nicer boat sitting there and was actually in the lift is four feet of water

904
01:24:18,910 --> 01:24:24,770
there. Well, they had run in the motor, you know, I mean they were just carving it out. So,

905
01:24:24,770 --> 01:24:30,950
You know, these data represent the full, you know, set of data from this one that's in a foot and a half.

906
01:24:31,130 --> 01:24:32,910
It's right next to the one that's in four feet.

907
01:24:33,350 --> 01:24:35,870
That's next to one that's in two and a half or three, whatever it is.

908
01:24:36,550 --> 01:24:42,490
So the capacity to provide the mud to move,

909
01:24:42,670 --> 01:24:45,970
who's highly dependent on the boat that might be sitting there.

910
01:24:46,530 --> 01:24:53,590
So I guess it just states that there's, there isn't a fact there by the virtue of the use of the dock.

911
01:24:53,590 --> 01:24:56,950
or lack of you, or lack of you, it's exactly, yeah, that would be the more important.

912
01:24:59,990 --> 01:25:01,670
Okay, I think that covers that slide.

913
01:25:02,970 --> 01:25:05,510
Okay, and so that's, that's the boat docks survey.

914
01:25:07,570 --> 01:25:10,170
The second component that we looked at was the fish and wildlife.

915
01:25:10,170 --> 01:25:12,590
It's going to move pretty quick because you know all of this.

916
01:25:13,490 --> 01:25:17,250
But goes like home to a threatened species of co-host salmon.

917
01:25:17,250 --> 01:25:22,150
Here's a picture of volunteer helping one of those adults across East Hills Lake Road.

918
01:25:22,150 --> 01:25:28,110
But here's a picture our damn what we're interested in is the outward migration

919
01:25:28,110 --> 01:25:31,590
So that was a picture of the inward migration after the big fish are there

920
01:25:31,590 --> 01:25:35,190
But the big fish are coming up in the wintertime with the dark the dam is not in place

921
01:25:35,190 --> 01:25:38,190
What our concern is is the juvenile outward migration

922
01:25:38,730 --> 01:25:44,530
Of which these fish are when the dams there force to go through a small weir

923
01:25:44,530 --> 01:25:49,770
Shown in the shadows here this kind of murky area on the south side of the D river

924
01:25:50,710 --> 01:25:51,250
Now,

925
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:57,410
they have to migrate, you know, that it's an essential migration need, obviously.

926
01:25:59,010 --> 01:25:59,590
I mentioned the threat.

927
01:25:59,950 --> 01:26:04,830
So what we did in the new regime, comparing the old to the new, quite simply,

928
01:26:06,070 --> 01:26:10,650
we have a partial reduction into the outward migration impact for small fish.

929
01:26:11,830 --> 01:26:18,550
They migrate between May and mid July, so by not impounding as early as April,

930
01:26:18,550 --> 01:26:29,570
So, we have shortened that impact window all the way to June 1st and the potentially June 15th.

931
01:26:29,850 --> 01:26:40,120
So, six weeks to four weeks of impact, depending on the empowerment period, four to six weeks,

932
01:26:41,180 --> 01:26:44,000
versus the full made of Magiola.

933
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:46,660
And as I mentioned, outward migration unaffected.

934
01:26:46,660 --> 01:26:53,520
Another official wildlife that we presented in May reflected back to that C-run cutthroat,

935
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:58,300
another native fish in Devil's Lake, was also called an address that moves in and out

936
01:26:58,300 --> 01:27:06,240
of the ocean in a lake. They actually migrate between June and mid-August. By virtue of putting

937
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:12,520
the dam in June, you're not really fixing any impacts that would happen to their outward

938
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:19,200
migration. June 15th, slightly, but they're really moving through mid-August, so July is

939
01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:27,960
they're going to be a big push. And then the Anadremus Lampray, they're moving inward,

940
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:37,160
reverse to the Samanids, between February and October, a big window of time. So, basically,

941
01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:42,960
almost any time you have the dam in, you can expect that you'll have impact to those in an

942
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:49,100
address species. And that's my first two sections. That's going to take it and then we'll

943
01:27:49,100 --> 01:27:49,660
be back.

944
01:27:57,780 --> 01:28:01,280
Okay, so I just tried to look, try to give you guys some perspective of increasing

945
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:06,020
leg level and the impact that's going to have on the septic systems that we have around the

946
01:28:06,020 --> 01:28:09,900
leg. And in doing that, there's a few things that I looked at, so I just want to give you some

947
01:28:09,900 --> 01:28:16,000
the impact of septic systems, design standards, what those are supposed to achieve, then ground water and so

948
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:21,660
characteristics, you'll see you're very related and if I just give you a summary of the impact.

949
01:28:23,180 --> 01:28:27,840
So I think this is number 685 is one that we've talked about a lot, but what we haven't really ever done is

950
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:33,840
broken it down by the properties that border the lake. So other 685, 42% of the systems

951
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:42,460
directly board of the lake and of those 285 to 42% 104 we don't have a record on

952
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:46,640
so we're as a total population set the systems we know one third don't have

953
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:50,720
records we look specifically at late-front property owners a few percentage points

954
01:28:50,720 --> 01:28:58,020
higher another 64 systems a 23% over 20 years old to be add those together

955
01:28:58,020 --> 01:29:02,740
you know looking at about 60% of our systems that are concerning systems you

956
01:29:02,740 --> 01:29:05,420
don't have a record on or over 20 years old.

957
01:29:06,540 --> 01:29:09,000
And then we have 20 sand filters out there

958
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:12,180
and at least 10 advanced treatment technology systems.

959
01:29:13,480 --> 01:29:14,820
And as we move from like the mid 90s,

960
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:15,740
we run from the sand filter.

961
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:17,580
And now we're seeing a lot more advanced treatment

962
01:29:18,100 --> 01:29:18,840
as the way to go.

963
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:20,400
They're not really using sand filters.

964
01:29:23,050 --> 01:29:24,510
Take material out of those systems.

965
01:29:25,590 --> 01:29:28,650
60% we don't know, which kind of matches up pretty well.

966
01:29:28,790 --> 01:29:30,150
Those numbers we saw earlier.

967
01:29:31,270 --> 01:29:32,330
That's an unknown take material.

968
01:29:32,330 --> 01:29:39,030
26% are concrete, 13 are steel, and then just for fun I put the weighted scale in there

969
01:29:39,030 --> 01:29:43,870
but to be honest that those numbers probably aren't that important because we have 60%

970
01:29:43,870 --> 01:29:48,750
that are unknown and generally when we look at older systems we see more steel and we do

971
01:29:48,750 --> 01:29:52,730
concrete. And the reason steel is important is that if we're going to be increasing like level

972
01:29:52,730 --> 01:29:57,550
which is increasing ground water levels which means probably more chains are sitting saturated

973
01:29:57,550 --> 01:29:59,970
steel curls a lot more quickly than concrete.

974
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:21,860
Oncrete does. So the first thing that still contains is the subject density of the subjectings that we have. And really, suffixing sums aren't intended to be used at municipal density levels. They're intended to be used in rural areas where people don't have access to, you know, to city infrastructure.

975
01:30:24,260 --> 01:30:28,880
So looking at like what EPA recommends and EPA recommends, one separate system per 16 acres.

976
01:30:31,180 --> 01:30:36,100
And what they're basically saying at that point is if you have, once you go over that level, one of 16, you can

977
01:30:36,100 --> 01:30:41,040
expect to see some groundwater contamination. We exceed that. I have that out there. We

978
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:48,020
see that by 5,900 percent on a regular basis. And I think it's up to like 10,000 percent in

979
01:30:48,020 --> 01:30:52,020
other areas, which really just means we have six septic systems for acre. It's really like what

980
01:30:52,020 --> 01:30:54,000
you'd see like a traditional city block.

981
01:30:57,100 --> 01:30:59,060
But then I looked at something that's like a little,

982
01:30:59,060 --> 01:31:04,580
more reasonable than one per 16 acre. So I looked at the university of Purdue put together the

983
01:31:04,580 --> 01:31:08,950
study where what they did is they looked at 20 different subjects studies in 15 different states

984
01:31:10,740 --> 01:31:15,700
and compile events of like one one are we really seeing issues and remember they came up with was

985
01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:25,060
one septic system per acre or two septic systems per acre depending on soil characteristics and things

986
01:31:25,060 --> 01:31:30,140
Like that and still even at that point, you know, we're exceeding that by 300% or more.

987
01:31:34,780 --> 01:31:36,280
I'm still looking at design standards.

988
01:31:39,110 --> 01:31:42,390
Design standards can be variable and these are like organ DQ design standards.

989
01:31:42,590 --> 01:31:45,550
I'm not going to get super into the details of them.

990
01:31:45,790 --> 01:31:50,070
But for the most part, what we see in the water shed are standard systems.

991
01:31:51,790 --> 01:31:56,230
You know, you have like ATT standards, you can get variances.

992
01:31:57,130 --> 01:31:59,070
If you have a steep slope, your standards change.

993
01:31:59,070 --> 01:32:11,530
I just tried to go to like the most basic DQ standards and talk off of those, and you know the standards are why we have these standards is in order to protect the land, surface water, ground water, and public health.

994
01:32:15,670 --> 01:32:26,830
So here's the basic septic system that we're looking at, and really like the two big things that we're talking about for lake level is your drain field.

995
01:32:27,310 --> 01:32:31,250
We're seeing me like these depths right here and then your depth from the bottom of the

996
01:32:31,250 --> 01:32:35,770
trench which is here down to where the ground water is and the first five feet is

997
01:32:35,770 --> 01:32:39,050
imperative no matter where you go everyone's looking at protecting that first five

998
01:32:39,050 --> 01:32:43,030
feet that's where the majority of the treatment is going to be happening so in Oregon

999
01:32:43,030 --> 01:32:44,710
this trench

1000
01:32:47,020 --> 01:32:52,780
this is going to be about 18 inches this bottom part here is going to be

1001
01:32:52,780 --> 01:32:58,860
about 18 inches to two feet deep where we can expect the bottom of the trench sorry

1002
01:32:58,860 --> 01:33:03,820
two feet down there, and then what they suggest here is four feet, not what they suggest

1003
01:33:03,820 --> 01:33:05,500
with the rule is,

1004
01:33:07,580 --> 01:33:10,020
is four feet then from the bottom that's wrenched to groundwater.

1005
01:33:17,660 --> 01:33:17,920
The

1006
01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:22,800
one thing that is also important is for that four feet, and I think here's what's really

1007
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:27,100
important to think about is when we're adjusting, we're going to re-bring the lake level up.

1008
01:33:27,340 --> 01:33:31,540
That four feet is what they're doing when you have a permanent groundwater table. However, that

1009
01:33:31,540 --> 01:33:36,220
number changes when you have a temporary groundwater table. And if you have a temporary groundwater

1010
01:33:36,220 --> 01:33:42,500
table, DQ says that you can have the temporary ground water table come to the same place

1011
01:33:42,500 --> 01:33:46,920
with the bottom of the trenches. So it really becomes concerning as if we're going to raise

1012
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:53,900
the leg level and winter and by changing the hydrology we could potentially be doing is changing

1013
01:33:53,900 --> 01:33:58,860
a temporary water table into a much more permanent water table so it's something to keep in mind.

1014
01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:10,080
And then by doing that of course it's important to say why do we have suffocating so it's the

1015
01:34:10,080 --> 01:34:14,800
reason for having those and you know these are the things that it's made up in effluent

1016
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:16,720
so anytime that we're saturating

1017
01:34:19,160 --> 01:34:23,040
saturating those soil, saturating that top four feet where all the treatment should be happening

1018
01:34:23,640 --> 01:34:30,620
we're really just creating this easy path for bacteria viruses and then really important for us is the nitrogen in phosphorus

1019
01:34:32,420 --> 01:34:40,040
something like a groundwater in soil characteristics so there hasn't been like a real full in-depth groundwater study done for devils like

1020
01:34:40,040 --> 01:34:47,920
So it can give you here just general things, how's groundwater moving, and then how that's tied to soil characteristics.

1021
01:34:54,830 --> 01:34:59,770
So I think this is a really good image, and it really kind of shows what's really happening for the most part.

1022
01:35:00,970 --> 01:35:10,210
So groundwater is really going to follow surface water, and that's going to follow typography, and it'll follow better oxygen extent.

1023
01:35:10,210 --> 01:35:23,650
So, if you're wondering where your groundwater table is, just from a visual impact, you can probably look where the lake is expressed that out into your property, and that's probably going to be where groundwater is, especially for these near shore properties.

1024
01:35:27,050 --> 01:35:39,770
So, it'll follow the topography, and then as we know, like during dry seasons, depth of groundwater will increase during wet seasons, it decreases in the winter, groundwater is going to be higher and the summer is going to be lower.

1025
01:35:41,290 --> 01:35:47,450
ground water first flow downward with gravity, but we'll also flow from high pressure to low pressure

1026
01:35:47,450 --> 01:35:52,210
so get this high hydraulic pressure that can push ground water up. That's going to be another impact

1027
01:35:52,210 --> 01:35:58,450
if when you have higher lake level you're going to be pushing ground water further up into the water shed.

1028
01:35:59,150 --> 01:36:04,830
And that's how you were defining me for a minute to the temporary water table level.

1029
01:36:04,830 --> 01:36:05,410
Great.

1030
01:36:07,130 --> 01:36:11,750
Theoretically, a higher we keep the water in the summer, the higher the water, so therefore

1031
01:36:11,750 --> 01:36:16,930
the average depth of the water table changes and becomes permanent at a higher level.

1032
01:36:23,030 --> 01:36:29,110
And then finally, another concern that we see here is, and what this image is, it's very simple

1033
01:36:29,110 --> 01:36:29,510
image.

1034
01:36:29,930 --> 01:36:35,330
I probably would be able to even draw it, but what you see here is just water flowing down.

1035
01:36:36,230 --> 01:36:41,010
And then these black lines, saw black lines are just the land, the dotted black line is the water's able.

1036
01:36:42,390 --> 01:36:47,190
And what we get in addition is like springs coming out pretty frequently around the lake,

1037
01:36:47,790 --> 01:36:52,910
where once water's going to circulate in, it's going to hit that ground layer, hit like a better rock layer,

1038
01:36:53,250 --> 01:36:55,370
and then we start seeing streams and things like that.

1039
01:36:55,390 --> 01:36:59,490
And that's just basically some ground water characteristics to talk about.

1040
01:36:59,490 --> 01:37:10,350
So now we start getting some charts and soils, soil information and ground water really closely tied and the best information that we have in the watershed.

1041
01:37:13,450 --> 01:37:17,850
About ground water, we really find through the USDA NRCS soil survey.

1042
01:37:19,710 --> 01:37:21,350
Let me find my notes for that real quickly.

1043
01:37:30,740 --> 01:37:36,460
So the table that we have here, this is, these are all the different soil types that we have in the watershed.

1044
01:37:36,460 --> 01:37:42,160
I think we have about eight different ones, and as you can see in this next map, our soil

1045
01:37:42,160 --> 01:37:47,180
suitability for drain fields, our soil suitability for septic systems is every soil

1046
01:37:47,180 --> 01:37:53,800
on the water shed is classified as very limited for this use, and our limitations range,

1047
01:37:54,380 --> 01:38:02,380
and the number of things flooding, ponding, depth of saturated zone, subsistence, slow water

1048
01:38:02,380 --> 01:38:07,140
movement to Steve Death's a better doc to cemented pan and seepage and really as far as

1049
01:38:07,140 --> 01:38:11,560
septic systems go, it's that Death through a saturated zone and Death's a better

1050
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:16,920
aquisher really important because any time that we have over saturated conditions,

1051
01:38:17,460 --> 01:38:22,580
rocking proper treatment of the effluent, you're creating an oxa conditions when you have water

1052
01:38:22,580 --> 01:38:26,980
which means no oxygen so you don't have bacteria working it on it, things aren't being broken

1053
01:38:26,980 --> 01:38:33,260
down and then also reclaim this direct link to the lake kind of earlier when you're talking

1054
01:38:33,260 --> 01:38:39,020
about the problem with any die testing is that you know things are just going down in the

1055
01:38:39,020 --> 01:38:46,140
groundwater it's kind of that same situation like we're not getting any treatment happening and

1056
01:38:46,140 --> 01:38:53,180
then it's difficult to see a failure when that's happening also because again generally like if

1057
01:38:53,180 --> 01:38:57,080
If your septic system is failing, say you have a clay soil, you're going to get backing up into

1058
01:38:57,080 --> 01:38:57,700
your house.

1059
01:38:58,000 --> 01:39:00,680
If it's water, you're not going to get backing up into your house.

1060
01:39:00,900 --> 01:39:03,380
It's really difficult for people to know when there's a system failing.

1061
01:39:07,640 --> 01:39:13,720
And then if we just go back up to these, the red boxes are areas that we have depth of saturated

1062
01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:14,660
zone as the problem.

1063
01:39:15,180 --> 01:39:21,980
The yellow boxes are the ones we have depth of bedrock and for those near shore properties, depth

1064
01:39:21,980 --> 01:39:27,360
the better oxystems are going to be showing similar characteristics to the depths of saturated

1065
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:31,020
zone because really that water has nowhere to go so it's just going to be following that

1066
01:39:31,020 --> 01:39:37,640
better octral. And then we can show a map of those right there. That's kind of what our

1067
01:39:37,640 --> 01:39:44,420
water shed looks like. And then all those black boxes are the our septic systems that we have.

1068
01:39:47,250 --> 01:39:52,450
As far as the impacts that we're seeing, just basically the septic systems that we have in

1069
01:39:52,450 --> 01:39:58,110
water shed create a lot of concerns for us. Once you've damaged levels like and you're

1070
01:39:58,110 --> 01:40:02,170
going to increase water levels, you're going to decrease the treatment zone which is really

1071
01:40:02,170 --> 01:40:06,130
important. We're going to be impacting those for the first four feet by saturating more

1072
01:40:06,130 --> 01:40:13,810
of that layer. The high water table makes it more difficult to see the signs of failure again

1073
01:40:13,810 --> 01:40:17,590
because you can have effluent that's going directly into groundwater as opposed to having

1074
01:40:17,590 --> 01:40:24,790
soil treatment area. Something that's used greatly exceed known standards and the concern

1075
01:40:24,790 --> 01:40:30,170
there is just like the compounding effects of more systems failing and having instead of

1076
01:40:30,170 --> 01:40:35,530
one area where you have a more of a saturated zone or saturated whole areas to really create

1077
01:40:35,530 --> 01:40:42,090
some trouble spots. The saturated soils decrease their ability to treat soil and already we

1078
01:40:42,090 --> 01:40:47,430
have soils and water shed that have been designated as having

1079
01:40:47,430 --> 01:40:49,090
depth of saturated zone problems.

1080
01:40:49,270 --> 01:40:51,870
So really, if we're raising like level, all we're doing is kind of

1081
01:40:51,870 --> 01:40:55,470
exacerbating this problems and doing the summer, which is like the

1082
01:40:55,470 --> 01:40:56,950
high time of year.

1083
01:40:58,410 --> 01:41:02,310
Is that when it says impacts that data and the middle data in

1084
01:41:02,310 --> 01:41:05,510
the right, should that be saturating the soils to

1085
01:41:05,510 --> 01:41:13,310
there are ability to treat effort, that's soil, that's right, that's right, okay, yeah, thank you.

1086
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:34,480
Okay, thanks Seth, so this is the fourth of five and this topic is on water quality and I showed this slide in May,

1087
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:40,100
because a lot of the uncertainty around nutrients and water quality in,

1088
01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:44,980
these assumptions of more water and what that might look like.

1089
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:49,380
And now you seem to add more water, you get more delusion, you know, that's better.

1090
01:41:50,220 --> 01:41:54,020
But that's not necessarily the case for the reasons that we're outlined in May.

1091
01:41:54,900 --> 01:41:59,060
You know, you can be saturating septic systems and providing more nutrients coming in.

1092
01:41:59,160 --> 01:42:03,120
You could dissolve more nutrients out of the soils, etc.

1093
01:42:05,120 --> 01:42:09,380
So when we look at this originally in May and then through the hearing process,

1094
01:42:09,380 --> 01:42:15,420
water quality I tried to let you guys know that's going to be the most difficult thing

1095
01:42:15,420 --> 01:42:19,580
that's not going to be cut and dry there's just a lot of variables it's very complex

1096
01:42:20,480 --> 01:42:26,140
similarly with temperature you know there was an assumption I you know if you have a

1097
01:42:26,140 --> 01:42:29,980
quarter water on the stove and you shouldn't heat on it boils

1098
01:42:31,140 --> 01:42:36,660
you know more quickly than if you had a gallon of water on the stove and those aren't you know

1099
01:42:37,440 --> 01:42:41,660
bad assumptions but when you look at a lake and you put it in the ad

1100
01:42:41,660 --> 01:42:46,200
biology and you've had the actually the ad the meteorology and you had all these other

1101
01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:52,340
variables it's not as clear cut and so you might have more surface area which

1102
01:42:52,340 --> 01:42:57,140
can heat up faster you can actually have wetlands that actually would be dry in the

1103
01:42:57,140 --> 01:43:01,460
summertime now are wet and absorbing you know and waters connecting until you're

1104
01:43:01,460 --> 01:43:05,740
actually getting heat transferred via the water it's just a lot of different

1105
01:43:05,740 --> 01:43:12,580
variables, and so this has always been a big, a big, difficult thing in my estimation.

1106
01:43:14,260 --> 01:43:21,640
And to the point about predicting water quality by water level, if you know, if that's

1107
01:43:21,640 --> 01:43:27,440
our assumption that we can do that, I just reflect back to 2003 again, and this just happened,

1108
01:43:27,620 --> 01:43:35,660
I just discovered this stuff when we're going through some materials, actually on three

1109
01:43:35,660 --> 01:43:41,700
half-inch floppy drive at my dad. We're digging. We actually dug up some archive stuff for the district.

1110
01:43:43,420 --> 01:43:51,320
Manager Report July 10th, 2003. The lake level shown here 9.7 feet in May,

1111
01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:55,900
which dropped to by the time the report is in really 9.26 feet.

1112
01:43:57,540 --> 01:44:07,360
change that into, can recalculate that based on the improperly installed stage at the time,

1113
01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:17,100
basically 9.9 feet to 9.46 feet. Similar to what would have been the impoundment at peak

1114
01:44:17,100 --> 01:44:24,320
time. Now, you think okay if you're impounding a water, if it's true that water clarity is

1115
01:44:24,320 --> 01:44:28,740
better by impounding water, why do you have a one-foot second depth? Well, this doesn't

1116
01:44:28,740 --> 01:44:31,420
tell the whole story, it doesn't tell what I'm talking about. The sunshine doesn't talk

1117
01:44:31,420 --> 01:44:37,080
about anything. But if you're just going to use that as a parameter, you're going to misguide

1118
01:44:37,080 --> 01:44:44,920
probably 50% of the time easily. Now, a month later, the lake level had dropped down and

1119
01:44:44,920 --> 01:44:53,560
got gotten down to a low as to the converted 8.86. And the second depth was 2.3 meters.

1120
01:44:54,720 --> 01:44:58,080
The temperature was the same, 70 degrees and 70 degrees.

1121
01:44:58,880 --> 01:44:59,980
So just by...

1122
01:45:00,050 --> 01:45:10,770
Trying to to try to predict water quality by lake level is it's going to be a pretty difficult thing. And this is just an example from a previous manager that had reported on this to the district.

1123
01:45:12,470 --> 01:45:20,030
So what do we know? What can we show? And I showed these data in was a September I guess as part of the water quality report.

1124
01:45:20,030 --> 01:45:29,710
precipitation, it was better than five years ago, but about as wet as last year, a little bit

1125
01:45:29,710 --> 01:45:36,090
later rain event, I think we had some middle of some information last meeting that showed

1126
01:45:36,090 --> 01:45:44,350
that June was particularly wet. And so we had potentially a big surge of nutrients coming into the

1127
01:45:44,350 --> 01:45:48,410
watershed, because that's where a lot of the stuff comes from. The rain's pushing it through the system

1128
01:45:48,410 --> 01:45:49,750
and it's coming into the system.

1129
01:45:50,890 --> 01:45:56,190
The lake level was less than it was in the previous year,

1130
01:45:56,850 --> 01:46:03,510
but it was higher in 08, no 9, which we showed data

1131
01:46:03,510 --> 01:46:05,630
about to have it here again for each night.

1132
01:46:05,970 --> 01:46:06,790
I've got the sign of bacteria.

1133
01:46:07,010 --> 01:46:08,770
So we're just going to measure lake level

1134
01:46:08,770 --> 01:46:10,390
to sign bacteria blooms.

1135
01:46:11,990 --> 01:46:13,790
Well, the data we have for five years

1136
01:46:13,790 --> 01:46:17,750
shows that it was bad last summer for sure,

1137
01:46:17,750 --> 01:46:22,190
but it was even just as better worse when the lake was higher.

1138
01:46:22,610 --> 01:46:24,610
So these things are not like a one to one.

1139
01:46:25,630 --> 01:46:27,770
That's I think the biggest take home message is like,

1140
01:46:27,890 --> 01:46:30,310
this is, this is not, it's very complex.

1141
01:46:30,350 --> 01:46:31,910
Things are very complex out there.

1142
01:46:32,210 --> 01:46:35,190
Similarly with temperature, temperature was about the same

1143
01:46:35,190 --> 01:46:38,790
as it was last summer, a little cooler the year before.

1144
01:46:39,170 --> 01:46:43,050
As it had been in the previous 2010 cycle,

1145
01:46:43,050 --> 01:46:48,770
this being summer, here's January 2010 line, where the temperatures low.

1146
01:46:50,610 --> 01:46:56,590
But when we had some big blooms we had high temperatures, exceeding 70 degrees and that's where that line goes.

1147
01:46:58,440 --> 01:46:59,240
That quick question.

1148
01:46:59,240 --> 01:47:13,140
Sure, the difference slides on 4243 are those, is the wake level more modest for the GF that's going from what

1149
01:47:13,140 --> 01:47:17,320
two tenths were two high two tenths or whatever was, we adjusted them, is out of just.

1150
01:47:17,340 --> 01:47:22,380
This is, yes, yes, these should be with that two tenth calculation, yes.

1151
01:47:24,000 --> 01:47:29,240
And then, so, you know, and we reflected on this at the previous meeting too, that, you know,

1152
01:47:29,240 --> 01:47:33,620
This data set doesn't show 2010 because we really didn't have a bloom that we were monitoring.

1153
01:47:34,060 --> 01:47:39,200
We did get one in September after our season of observation season when they were closed.

1154
01:47:40,560 --> 01:47:53,920
So it's not captured but the water quality was certainly no better in 2008 or 2009 either.

1155
01:47:53,920 --> 01:48:00,660
So, you know, was there a difference between 2011 and 2012 visually?

1156
01:48:01,540 --> 01:48:01,760
Yeah.

1157
01:48:02,140 --> 01:48:02,700
It was different.

1158
01:48:04,100 --> 01:48:08,600
But, you know, is that because of the lake level, I wouldn't make that call.

1159
01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:11,140
I wouldn't point it, say that was the reason.

1160
01:48:11,420 --> 01:48:13,100
Or I wouldn't say that's not the reason either.

1161
01:48:13,760 --> 01:48:18,660
But if anything, I would say that it's, I would, I would caution on that.

1162
01:48:19,160 --> 01:48:21,620
It's, it's probably not directly correlated.

1163
01:48:22,540 --> 01:48:25,260
And, and I just showed you these slides, I think, these are in your package.

1164
01:48:25,340 --> 01:48:30,520
This is from a 1990s bloom of Anabena, which is a highly toxic form of cyanobacteria,

1165
01:48:30,520 --> 01:48:34,220
blue green algae, worse than the one that we currently have, school of trickia.

1166
01:48:34,640 --> 01:48:39,340
And these are the aerials of, and then a near-shore shot of a regard around, so it was, you know,

1167
01:48:39,460 --> 01:48:40,520
pea soup out there.

1168
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:44,640
I think this is 95, I think.

1169
01:48:46,620 --> 01:48:51,560
It wasn't 1984, I think it was 95, because 94 was another historically bad, really

1170
01:48:52,740 --> 01:48:59,060
And this is just all green, I don't know if people can see this, this slide shows online too, by the way.

1171
01:49:00,700 --> 01:49:03,300
But this is just all green, this is just balloons.

1172
01:49:04,560 --> 01:49:08,560
So has Devils Lake had historically bad balloons before, yeah, it has.

1173
01:49:09,300 --> 01:49:15,500
And it had them as recently as 2012, and as also as recently as 2009, in 2008.

1174
01:49:17,040 --> 01:49:20,280
So that completes that element of it.

1175
01:49:21,480 --> 01:49:25,680
And then the last section we have here is the wetland and shoreline vegetation survey.

1176
01:49:26,620 --> 01:49:28,520
I show this picture because it's almost Christmas time.

1177
01:49:29,260 --> 01:49:38,980
We actually shot this photograph when we were doing the aquatic survey or the erosion study.

1178
01:49:38,980 --> 01:49:39,520
Yeah.

1179
01:49:41,280 --> 01:49:46,740
Tony Paddington snapped his photos of those three-year entering the lake, which is, you

1180
01:49:46,740 --> 01:49:48,100
know, why you need shorelines?

1181
01:49:48,240 --> 01:49:51,320
You know, we're not the only people out there, you know, or organisms out there.

1182
01:49:51,460 --> 01:49:53,420
I mean, we need shorelines.

1183
01:49:53,640 --> 01:49:59,940
And so when we're looking at our SOS program and limiting the impacts, you know, there's

1184
01:49:59,940 --> 01:50:00,380
a reason.

1185
01:50:01,220 --> 01:50:08,700
Anyway, so moving on, just a bit of background wetlands in shoreline vegetation is dynamically

1186
01:50:09,300 --> 01:50:18,440
has a dynamic capacity to be in more water and less water, it's a range of tolerance, it's

1187
01:50:18,440 --> 01:50:23,260
inundation, but it can handle a little bit, but it can't handle a generally more than two

1188
01:50:23,260 --> 01:50:23,720
weeks.

1189
01:50:24,300 --> 01:50:28,940
If it's instanding water for more than two weeks, the soils are going to go anoxic, like

1190
01:50:28,940 --> 01:50:36,060
Seth was talking about, those roots that are in the soil that anoxic soil are going

1191
01:50:36,060 --> 01:50:42,340
die off. And so I'm going to be other specialized plants, aquatic plants, that should be living

1192
01:50:42,340 --> 01:50:48,060
in some of that muck. Even even aquatic plants don't. They like the boxes too, and they're

1193
01:50:48,060 --> 01:50:56,820
supposed to. But the leg fluctuations are some natural part of their scenario, their life,

1194
01:50:56,900 --> 01:51:02,660
their life cycle. And it's important to note, I've had this slide because it was the SOS program

1195
01:51:02,660 --> 01:51:07,160
and the potential impacts to that SLS program that got the district asking about leg

1196
01:51:07,160 --> 01:51:13,720
level to begin with and the shoreline and that's why we do the erosion study. So the district's

1197
01:51:13,720 --> 01:51:20,220
investment in that erosion study which also provided all that photographic shoreline stuff, the

1198
01:51:20,220 --> 01:51:32,480
other inventory stuff that we collected as well, was initiated as a result of whether we were basically

1199
01:51:32,480 --> 01:51:37,300
by raising the lake low, like are we not going to be able to restore the shoreline as

1200
01:51:37,300 --> 01:51:41,480
a result of another activity that we're embarking on, which was impounding water.

1201
01:51:43,960 --> 01:51:49,560
And for the SOS program, it's clear to me at least that I think our greatest opportunity

1202
01:51:50,080 --> 01:51:55,900
is on public lands, elevations below this meandered line of 10.4 feet.

1203
01:51:55,900 --> 01:52:02,040
Because, frankly, we haven't had the outpouring of private

1204
01:52:03,740 --> 01:52:08,880
people coming to us and saying, let's do a shoreline restoration on our shoreline.

1205
01:52:08,980 --> 01:52:11,620
We've had six to date that I've actually done a project.

1206
01:52:12,400 --> 01:52:15,720
And if we have 393 structures out there, well, there's a lot of opportunity.

1207
01:52:16,520 --> 01:52:17,720
But we're, frankly, we're not getting it.

1208
01:52:17,940 --> 01:52:19,300
And we need that shoreline.

1209
01:52:19,300 --> 01:52:32,120
So, where's our best option for restoration, below 10-4, you know, for sure, as well as just other public lands, which we've already developed some demonstration sites on.

1210
01:52:35,620 --> 01:52:43,060
This slide is just a catch from that shoreline planting guide that TetraTek did for us previously as well.

1211
01:52:43,860 --> 01:52:50,420
So, you know, just talks about the plants, and in the picture it actually shows the same plant in standing water and in dry water.

1212
01:52:50,420 --> 01:52:55,560
So it's just, you know, alluding to the fact that these things can handle a range of wetness.

1213
01:52:56,780 --> 01:53:02,180
But they do need to have that dry parade to, they don't tolerate that complete standing water.

1214
01:53:03,560 --> 01:53:10,800
So in order to assess the vegetation, now, I told you that we're trying to assess a half

1215
01:53:10,800 --> 01:53:12,780
of foot change over a half a year.

1216
01:53:13,180 --> 01:53:18,200
There's not going to be, you're not going to find tremendous change in a half a year or

1217
01:53:18,200 --> 01:53:18,820
a half of foot.

1218
01:53:18,820 --> 01:53:23,260
And, in fact, that was the part one of the main issues about doing that originally said to me in a way.

1219
01:53:23,560 --> 01:53:28,880
It was a really fine window that you're looking at trying to create a data set around.

1220
01:53:29,600 --> 01:53:35,980
So, what I'm going to show you is some photographs that do shows some changes

1221
01:53:35,980 --> 01:53:41,140
and then others that you can't really call any difference because it looks almost...

1222
01:53:41,140 --> 01:53:44,060
If anything, well, they must have painted the house or something.

1223
01:53:44,060 --> 01:53:49,020
It's the only changes you'll actually see or not going to be very observable on the shore

1224
01:53:49,020 --> 01:53:53,560
on because of just the reality of a pretty small window of change.

1225
01:53:55,060 --> 01:54:04,360
And I want to thank Alyssa Clayton for compiling these photos and trying to zoom in to match

1226
01:54:04,360 --> 01:54:08,320
up some 2011 photos with the 2012 photos.

1227
01:54:08,800 --> 01:54:12,980
And I do have one of 2008 to show you.

1228
01:54:12,980 --> 01:54:15,680
But before I get into that, I just want to show you this slide here.

1229
01:54:15,680 --> 01:54:22,400
This picture is from the early D River, and it shows it, I'm going to guess 2030 feet.

1230
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:23,440
It's probably summer.

1231
01:54:23,620 --> 01:54:24,140
I don't know.

1232
01:54:24,520 --> 01:54:30,500
But it's an old photo of doubles of the D River from Ann Hall's book there that she did for her

1233
01:54:30,500 --> 01:54:37,100
winner, and if you compare that to where it was looking in the summer time, now we had

1234
01:54:37,100 --> 01:54:41,440
all the sand that washed in, and we actually had vegetation, if you can see that growing

1235
01:54:41,440 --> 01:54:42,120
on that sand.

1236
01:54:42,120 --> 01:54:47,020
So it just shows you that the lake does repair, and it does change over time.

1237
01:54:48,000 --> 01:54:53,000
This isn't an estuary because it's not getting saltwater inundation every day, but it's

1238
01:54:53,000 --> 01:54:56,800
starting to act more and more flat as that sand comes in.

1239
01:54:57,080 --> 01:55:00,300
That's going to be the natural slope of the de-gribber area.

1240
01:55:01,040 --> 01:55:02,020
It's going to try to push that.

1241
01:55:02,100 --> 01:55:03,400
As we know, we've got big storms.

1242
01:55:03,840 --> 01:55:06,960
In fact, I was thinking it was going to get clogged up yesterday and the day before, because

1243
01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:10,360
it was, the storms were pretty, pretty big in there.

1244
01:55:10,360 --> 01:55:16,180
But, you know, the D River probably, in the winter time, if you were to look at this photo,

1245
01:55:16,520 --> 01:55:23,580
would flood over the top of this area, you can see up up the top corner of this kind of where the pops up of it.

1246
01:55:24,340 --> 01:55:24,960
That's the floodplain.

1247
01:55:25,060 --> 01:55:26,680
That's where it's going to go with its big water.

1248
01:55:27,100 --> 01:55:30,000
But then it's going to drop back down because it just doubles like.

1249
01:55:30,080 --> 01:55:33,640
It just goes up, runs for a while and it's going to flatten back out.

1250
01:55:34,220 --> 01:55:37,580
And so, you know, if we look at this area long term,

1251
01:55:37,580 --> 01:55:43,180
This, to try to change the management of this relative to the ocean, it's going to be a

1252
01:55:43,180 --> 01:55:43,620
big investment.

1253
01:55:43,860 --> 01:55:44,600
We've talking about that.

1254
01:55:45,740 --> 01:55:53,260
Now if it recovers and it just actually becomes vegetated again, like it has in the past,

1255
01:55:53,520 --> 01:56:00,040
which it would do over time, then you aren't going to have, potentially, this is off topic,

1256
01:56:00,620 --> 01:56:04,380
but areas for those signals to land and things like that.

1257
01:56:04,380 --> 01:56:07,980
So, you know, when we look at that discussion later,

1258
01:56:08,960 --> 01:56:11,520
just might bear in mind some of this picture in particular,

1259
01:56:12,220 --> 01:56:14,760
that the de-river, as with this shoreline,

1260
01:56:14,780 --> 01:56:15,800
here is highly manipulated.

1261
01:56:16,700 --> 01:56:19,680
And it wants to nature's trying to push it back

1262
01:56:19,680 --> 01:56:20,800
to where it wasn't manipulated.

1263
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:23,200
And so it's going to be depositing sand

1264
01:56:23,200 --> 01:56:25,100
and trying to grow vegetation when it's not,

1265
01:56:25,100 --> 01:56:28,220
when it's not inoxic, because it's flooded with water.

1266
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:32,180
And so this picture shows it really clearly, I think,

1267
01:56:32,180 --> 01:56:41,860
And I took this picture in 2008 in October, 24th, and the lake level when it was photographed

1268
01:56:41,860 --> 01:56:44,880
was 9.0 feet according to our records.

1269
01:56:46,220 --> 01:56:52,900
The summer inundation had been 9.8 feet to 10.2 feet, and it was highly inundated through

1270
01:56:52,900 --> 01:56:53,280
the year.

1271
01:56:53,560 --> 01:57:00,000
Basically a foot higher than it was like that from June 5th to the lake end of August.

1272
01:57:00,000 --> 01:57:02,940
I mean it was, it was high the whole time, 2008.

1273
01:57:04,520 --> 01:57:07,640
And what we see here is a very denuted shoreline.

1274
01:57:08,060 --> 01:57:09,820
Nothing like that historic photo,

1275
01:57:10,360 --> 01:57:12,220
where you had grass as growing up,

1276
01:57:12,460 --> 01:57:14,060
and that when the lake did flood,

1277
01:57:14,460 --> 01:57:16,760
the water would probably go over the top of those plants,

1278
01:57:17,780 --> 01:57:20,500
not ripping out entirely, or if they did,

1279
01:57:20,580 --> 01:57:21,920
they would regrow in the next summer,

1280
01:57:22,620 --> 01:57:24,380
and it was just kind of at a home use basis.

1281
01:57:25,020 --> 01:57:26,880
This here is showing impact to me.

1282
01:57:26,880 --> 01:57:55,260
This is showing a lot of impact manipulation, because this shoreline could sustain growth if it had been exposed to the sun through the summer, but it was flooded all summer, so there was nothing that could grow here from like a wetland type species, and then when the dam was taken out, well then you have this very clear line of where the height of the water probably likely was.

1283
01:57:57,540 --> 01:57:59,600
because this is hard to tell, it's too dimensional now,

1284
01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:03,320
but if you can imagine, this is a bit of a lip pair

1285
01:58:03,320 --> 01:58:04,740
with a vegetation in the city.

1286
01:58:07,430 --> 01:58:08,210
Okay, so that's 2008.

1287
01:58:08,250 --> 01:58:10,450
Most of the photographs are going to be 2011, 2012.

1288
01:58:10,570 --> 01:58:12,550
But this one I thought was captivating,

1289
01:58:12,770 --> 01:58:13,750
and I wanted to show it to you.

1290
01:58:15,110 --> 01:58:16,730
This here is a picture from 2012.

1291
01:58:17,230 --> 01:58:19,390
More or less at St. Harry, you see the unit 50 building

1292
01:58:19,390 --> 01:58:20,370
off to the right again.

1293
01:58:21,630 --> 01:58:23,850
And this is trying to recover.

1294
01:58:24,230 --> 01:58:26,230
There's plants growing up through that.

1295
01:58:26,230 --> 01:58:35,620
You know, it's showing that there's life will happen if you let it, you know, if it's and then what's also interesting about this photo is this clump of

1296
01:58:36,890 --> 01:58:43,340
Algo Matt here, which is rather undesirable frankly this stuff is free-slimeing people don't really tend to like it

1297
01:58:44,030 --> 01:58:46,110
Not gonna pick on it biologically

1298
01:58:46,110 --> 01:58:54,830
You know when it comes to like greens come people tend to frown versus well people maybe people frown it prickly stuff to but I'm just saying that

1299
01:58:55,730 --> 01:59:03,890
If you're supplanting this area, if you're innovating this, you may be encouraging stuff like this too, because it's on the aquatic side.

1300
01:59:05,490 --> 01:59:09,050
This is a similar picture of that one and just showing a little bit further way.

1301
01:59:09,130 --> 01:59:13,310
This is all regrowth in that same area that was from the 2008 photo.

1302
01:59:14,430 --> 01:59:20,870
And then this is shot from the D River Bridge and so this area where the rocks are is where

1303
01:59:20,870 --> 01:59:28,110
it was impounded out through the summertime and then it's down to say probably 8.7 or whatever

1304
01:59:28,110 --> 01:59:34,510
it was and then this whole area here, this band of vegetation is what's been recovering since

1305
01:59:34,510 --> 01:59:43,210
those 2008 in the hiring and addition so this shoreline was to continue growing.

1306
01:59:43,210 --> 01:59:48,230
And it's obviously if you manipulated, if you mull it, or if you indated, it's not going to grow.

1307
01:59:48,850 --> 01:59:51,210
So those are the two major issues there.

1308
01:59:51,570 --> 01:59:54,690
This is again just from just off a hostile alert park there.

1309
01:59:54,930 --> 01:59:59,970
Just showing that this area where it wasn't indated, the summer grew a foot.

1310
02:00:01,880 --> 02:00:28,000
That means that the sentiment that's underneath that vegetation is less likely to be transported out to see when the water comes racing through there, which means that there's less turbidity for when

1311
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:30,500
you are stabilizing that entire shoreline.

1312
02:00:32,840 --> 02:00:36,900
OK, so to some of the on 2011, 2012 comparisons.

1313
02:00:38,120 --> 02:00:41,980
2011, you know, a lot of vegetation growing in here

1314
02:00:43,040 --> 02:00:44,700
looks pretty good.

1315
02:00:45,700 --> 02:00:49,340
They, after inundation and the substorms, I guess,

1316
02:00:49,420 --> 02:00:50,220
had them die off.

1317
02:00:50,240 --> 02:00:51,340
These were submitted to me.

1318
02:00:54,100 --> 02:00:57,040
So starts, you know, shows that kind of inundation zone

1319
02:00:57,040 --> 02:00:58,660
where it was probably inundated up to here.

1320
02:00:58,660 --> 02:01:00,900
I think you can see some water marks up on this other boat.

1321
02:01:01,100 --> 02:01:04,080
It goes too shady against there, but my screen it kind of shows.

1322
02:01:04,340 --> 02:01:06,680
You can kind of guess where the inundations happening here.

1323
02:01:07,980 --> 02:01:14,160
But you know, it recovers when it's not, you know, inundated, you know, it's kind of expected.

1324
02:01:15,700 --> 02:01:19,680
This picture, I think you're not going to see much difference in all of my memories.

1325
02:01:19,680 --> 02:01:22,080
It's just like 2011, 2012.

1326
02:01:22,440 --> 02:01:25,980
In fact, if anything, I think we chose this picture to show that the minimum

1327
02:01:25,980 --> 02:01:30,940
the relation of this shoreline by mowing puts this a little bit more at risk than it was

1328
02:01:30,940 --> 02:01:33,740
in 2011, where it was vegetated.

1329
02:01:36,220 --> 02:01:40,840
So, you know, these practices on the on the on the on the lake's edge actually have a

1330
02:01:40,840 --> 02:01:43,580
lot to do with whether or not that soil is going to stay there too.

1331
02:01:44,800 --> 02:01:50,660
This comparison is is probably going to show very little difference, maybe, you know, the orientation

1332
02:01:50,660 --> 02:01:54,480
of the houses a little off to you and apologize for that we, we tried to link these up as

1333
02:01:56,540 --> 02:02:01,480
this one I think it's kind of interesting because we see a lot of sheeppiling around the lake and

1334
02:02:03,200 --> 02:02:11,420
sheeppiling provides very little habitat and 2011 there's a little clump of stuff that's growing in front of us here

1335
02:02:11,420 --> 02:02:18,680
2012 that clump is growing up considerably you're getting more and more you know it's just it's kind of reclaiming it

1336
02:02:18,680 --> 02:02:25,880
And then we move actually to the left, which would be to the north actually for the east side.

1337
02:02:26,560 --> 02:02:28,000
There's another picture from 2011.

1338
02:02:28,880 --> 02:02:30,480
Fairly Vedshade, we can see the wall.

1339
02:02:31,300 --> 02:02:34,000
And then a little bit more dense in 2012.

1340
02:02:34,320 --> 02:02:38,680
And then the next line, this is at the tail end of that initial structure.

1341
02:02:39,380 --> 02:02:48,440
And you can see where we are compared to the next one pretty clearly because that same blue thing is in the background.

1342
02:02:48,440 --> 02:02:56,720
So it's really completely mentioned it. It just reclaimed it. You can just see a very tail of that

1343
02:02:56,720 --> 02:02:59,380
Right there of that

1344
02:03:00,820 --> 02:03:03,500
Sheep on this photo

1345
02:03:04,260 --> 02:03:05,340
Quick comparison

1346
02:03:05,940 --> 02:03:09,960
Kind of flip through it. Yeah, I can see much. You know, it's a half of foot

1347
02:03:11,220 --> 02:03:15,900
Probably not a lot of changes that they did on the landscape like it's that maybe they changed

1348
02:03:15,900 --> 02:03:20,180
Oh, they, it looks like they added some fronting here to the fence line, you know, you know,

1349
02:03:20,400 --> 02:03:28,000
your eye's not going to pick out any changes that you felt there's probably really wasn't much in a half a year at a half of foot.

1350
02:03:30,220 --> 02:03:35,880
But in other cases, we do, we do see some here, like this is really pretty much, you're not going to see much.

1351
02:03:36,880 --> 02:03:43,280
Same thing here, this is just kind of showing the modification really of the shoreline by the homeowner, you know,

1352
02:03:43,280 --> 02:03:48,140
And it's pretty much going the wrong way, they're sorry.

1353
02:03:48,760 --> 02:03:50,280
It's pretty much the same.

1354
02:03:51,900 --> 02:03:54,860
They may have actually mode more, or something down to the edge.

1355
02:03:55,160 --> 02:03:58,160
So you're not going to be able to pick at that too much.

1356
02:03:59,080 --> 02:04:03,640
This property though gets a little bit interesting, because this was a highly risk property relative

1357
02:04:03,640 --> 02:04:04,320
to erosion.

1358
02:04:05,380 --> 02:04:10,160
And you can see some vegetation trying to come back on this to the north of that property

1359
02:04:10,160 --> 02:04:13,960
It's the same photo zoomed in and see some stuff trying to reclaim.

1360
02:04:14,500 --> 02:04:17,900
It's not really evident, but when you look at this part of the picture on the next

1361
02:04:17,900 --> 02:04:25,540
couple of slides, you can see this stuff kind of compared that and find the right one.

1362
02:04:25,760 --> 02:04:29,860
So here's two between each other and then this one and this one.

1363
02:04:30,020 --> 02:04:36,160
So this one and this one, just the density is grown and it's just trying to prepare that

1364
02:04:36,160 --> 02:04:41,820
just what's happening, you know, the broke off for whatever reason, you know, maybe somebody

1365
02:04:41,820 --> 02:04:47,160
had a shovel there, but you know, wave action or whatever reason, it fell off and slough down,

1366
02:04:47,520 --> 02:04:53,600
and it's just trying to grow back up. It's not a lot of no big surprises here. Same thing,

1367
02:04:53,720 --> 02:04:59,680
you're not much change, you're not going to see much. This one is from a, what was a major slide,

1368
02:04:59,820 --> 02:05:05,460
there was like a couple trees, this house on the corn actually came off, it's a foundation a few

1369
02:05:05,460 --> 02:05:12,220
years back. So there's a major slide repair here, and they came in and ripped, and they were

1370
02:05:12,220 --> 02:05:18,180
supposed to have actually, to my understanding, have re-vegetated that, apparently the

1371
02:05:18,180 --> 02:05:23,660
permit actually didn't require that, but it's starting to try to just reclaim itself.

1372
02:05:24,240 --> 02:05:28,000
It's just, you know, the rocket's self doesn't provide any habitat, but what do you get

1373
02:05:28,000 --> 02:05:32,340
to get Scott's room? Nothing great, you know? That's why you want to go re-vegetate these

1374
02:05:32,340 --> 02:05:38,460
because, you know, what's going to come in first or the invasives, you know, nasty stuff.

1375
02:05:39,040 --> 02:05:41,340
Here it is again, lots of Scotch for them coming in.

1376
02:05:42,200 --> 02:05:44,020
It gets even denser to 2012.

1377
02:05:47,100 --> 02:05:50,940
Because there used to be these kind of sickest fruit sitting right here.

1378
02:05:51,380 --> 02:05:51,740
You're recording.

1379
02:05:54,360 --> 02:05:58,000
And then this one here kind of a near shot of, you know,

1380
02:05:58,140 --> 02:06:03,000
not a lot of change there, you know, it's just pretty similar, maybe a little, you know,

1381
02:06:03,000 --> 02:06:08,400
Vegetation dies back in winter time too. So if it if it even gets back to where it was

1382
02:06:09,060 --> 02:06:10,800
year before that that's

1383
02:06:11,580 --> 02:06:14,980
That's a plus for it's the plant itself, right? It's like breaking even

1384
02:06:14,980 --> 02:06:20,960
Whether it can make gains on that has more to do with maybe the nutrients on the soil or how much sun there was. So

1385
02:06:20,960 --> 02:06:23,020
In a vegetation is gonna be very

1386
02:06:23,020 --> 02:06:25,340
considerably variable based on

1387
02:06:25,860 --> 02:06:27,380
year to year

1388
02:06:27,380 --> 02:06:32,220
because a cold year went here, you know, tree-ring data show you, you know, you get big years

1389
02:06:32,220 --> 02:06:34,080
of growth, I mean you're staying growing very well.

1390
02:06:38,100 --> 02:06:43,800
This shot here, this is a parcel of the city owns actually, that they tried to do a repair

1391
02:06:45,200 --> 02:06:46,120
in 2008,

1392
02:06:48,500 --> 02:06:53,980
but they had the willows get removed and they're looking at trying to do something

1393
02:06:53,980 --> 02:06:59,380
again to fix this again, but what's happening here is it's just kind of reclaiming itself.

1394
02:06:59,380 --> 02:07:08,780
and really just by not mowing in or something would help it considerably, which is, you know,

1395
02:07:08,920 --> 02:07:12,560
maybe aesthetically, I don't even know if the city actually mows it off the neighbors,

1396
02:07:12,800 --> 02:07:18,180
because typically people really like to modify the shoreline.

1397
02:07:18,940 --> 02:07:22,300
And as you can see, the neighbors have highly modified areas too,

1398
02:07:22,300 --> 02:07:30,140
So that might be indicative of why that hasn't just gone to maybe a more wild look.

1399
02:07:30,760 --> 02:07:37,080
This, I think we're getting closely in here, this is a rock wall that has a lot of

1400
02:07:37,080 --> 02:07:42,480
little starts of meditation going through, and you know, whether it's because it was the next

1401
02:07:42,480 --> 02:07:47,340
year was very favorable because of the weather or because of the lake levels or whatever

1402
02:07:47,340 --> 02:07:53,620
cases. You can see that the lake is sitting right at that shoreline. But it's going

1403
02:07:53,620 --> 02:07:58,820
considerably better. It's growing. You know, there's a real benefit comparison between

1404
02:07:58,820 --> 02:08:07,180
these and this one. So given the chance vegetation, I guess take on memory, messages will reclaim

1405
02:08:07,180 --> 02:08:13,180
some of those areas that are denuded by not denuting those areas or having those areas reclaimed.

1406
02:08:13,180 --> 02:08:16,500
And you reduce the amount of sedimentation coming into the system.

1407
02:08:16,820 --> 02:08:19,860
You help stabilize the shoreline as we saw in those D River photos,

1408
02:08:22,020 --> 02:08:22,320
and then there's

1409
02:08:22,320 --> 02:08:23,760
a couple more here.

1410
02:08:24,680 --> 02:08:30,680
I think one, the last one is an SOS project where, you know, this kind of goes back to your

1411
02:08:30,680 --> 02:08:31,000
investment.

1412
02:08:31,260 --> 02:08:37,040
So you helped with this project 75% of this project, cash managed, right?

1413
02:08:37,040 --> 02:08:44,940
Um, here's the 2011 photo, 2012, it's just flourishing, you know, and that's what you want, right?

1414
02:08:45,080 --> 02:08:51,260
You want it, something, you know, this has been invested in, it's not an invasive, like the Scotch

1415
02:08:51,260 --> 02:08:54,580
Room where the vegetation wasn't replanted.

1416
02:08:55,520 --> 02:08:58,880
Um, you know, it's a really stark comparison.

1417
02:08:59,400 --> 02:09:02,740
Obviously, these plants are starting to take root, and so there's like just a whole

1418
02:09:02,740 --> 02:09:08,100
growth here and they had room to grow so they helped grow so you know there's that

1419
02:09:08,100 --> 02:09:16,820
variable too but what we know about sediment the shoreline and the way those plants

1420
02:09:16,820 --> 02:09:24,220
are adapted to they're better off without the dam that's pretty clear and so you

1421
02:09:24,220 --> 02:09:33,820
You know, with the impoundment as at 9-0, are they less worse off, probably, would they

1422
02:09:33,820 --> 02:09:39,620
be worse worse off at 9-53, probably even more so, for sure, because then you're creating

1423
02:09:39,620 --> 02:09:42,820
like a permanent water table like stuff was talking about the relative of the septics,

1424
02:09:43,140 --> 02:09:49,040
because when we looked at that origin city, it was showed that the lake level was actually

1425
02:09:49,040 --> 02:09:54,620
higher on average in summer time, and in the winter time, and that was because of the

1426
02:09:54,620 --> 02:10:03,140
impoundment. And so, you know, can the vegetation do better without impoundment? My professional

1427
02:10:03,140 --> 02:10:10,290
get estimation, absolutely, yes. And I think that's it for the whole thing we did it in

1428
02:10:10,290 --> 02:10:11,770
about 70 minutes.

1429
02:10:18,360 --> 02:10:20,280
Anybody have questions for Paul in the presentation?

1430
02:10:28,510 --> 02:10:30,070
So, are we on the goal setting?

1431
02:10:47,110 --> 02:10:50,290
Vegetation survey, actually. From Portland State.

1432
02:10:50,290 --> 02:10:53,150
This is the next one.

1433
02:10:54,050 --> 02:10:55,590
This document is online.

1434
02:10:56,990 --> 02:10:58,750
Portland State's Vegetation Survey.

1435
02:10:59,430 --> 02:11:02,550
I think I've provided a couple take-home points

1436
02:11:02,550 --> 02:11:06,590
that if you don't mind, I'll just kind of look at to refresh.

1437
02:11:07,850 --> 02:11:10,050
But we mentioned one of them is that,

1438
02:11:10,050 --> 02:11:12,430
well, at least from there, two passes in investigation,

1439
02:11:12,990 --> 02:11:14,610
we didn't have any of the Brazilian idea,

1440
02:11:14,910 --> 02:11:18,110
nor the millfoil, which is good, you know.

1441
02:11:21,010 --> 02:11:24,430
You've got a copy of the abstract, you've got a copy of the actual document.

1442
02:11:25,130 --> 02:11:30,150
If you go to our research page, you can find it there for 2012.

1443
02:11:31,470 --> 02:11:36,250
Key findings, 20 species of plants, and I preliminarily we spoke about this, and I thought

1444
02:11:36,250 --> 02:11:40,810
that was impressive, but I thought we wouldn't find more than a handful.

1445
02:11:41,990 --> 02:11:47,650
Because the lake has so little vegetation that you would expect less diversity.

1446
02:11:47,650 --> 02:11:49,890
Well, actually it was quite diverse.

1447
02:11:51,350 --> 02:11:54,670
Talked about the two non-animals that weren't found.

1448
02:11:57,980 --> 02:12:01,140
Finally, less density in the second sample over the first sample.

1449
02:12:01,340 --> 02:12:03,560
There was one fewer species found.

1450
02:12:04,880 --> 02:12:08,940
I think it was like a July 15th in September,

1451
02:12:10,560 --> 02:12:13,140
and it's a time period.

1452
02:12:15,760 --> 02:12:17,840
One of the findings are reported in the report.

1453
02:12:17,840 --> 02:12:24,500
that says that, you know, without ongoing control, 35 to 60% which was what was estimated

1454
02:12:24,500 --> 02:12:31,660
to have been vegetated pre-grass farm would return, you know, that's the same deficit

1455
02:12:31,660 --> 02:12:40,220
beds of water and where there isn't maybe enough wind energy to rip the plants out of

1456
02:12:40,220 --> 02:12:41,640
their sediment.

1457
02:12:42,460 --> 02:12:49,980
You know, that's kind of the platform for vegetation on those, like 35 to 60 percent.

1458
02:12:50,500 --> 02:12:53,160
And that would happen again more or less.

1459
02:12:53,280 --> 02:12:55,360
I mean, that's what we've heard.

1460
02:12:55,660 --> 02:13:00,660
I've always said, you know, you stop mowing the lawn, grass car mowing the lawn.

1461
02:13:01,640 --> 02:13:03,140
18 months have not mowing the lawn.

1462
02:13:03,280 --> 02:13:05,740
It's going to look a lot different than when you mow the time before.

1463
02:13:05,900 --> 02:13:10,500
So, something on that window is, you know, or greater.

1464
02:13:12,920 --> 02:13:18,440
They also documented, this was in part of the actual agreement, but they actually documented

1465
02:13:18,440 --> 02:13:23,320
14 shoreline species for us, five of which were non-native, and we know a lot of those

1466
02:13:23,320 --> 02:13:29,520
of purple blue strife, the Canary Reganary Grass, the Yellow Flag Iris, which dominates

1467
02:13:29,520 --> 02:13:31,060
much of the shoreline.

1468
02:13:32,560 --> 02:13:36,280
Recommendations, additional education and outreach, such as the shoreline planting guides,

1469
02:13:36,280 --> 02:13:40,960
So plotting us in that effort, you know, and we do have copies of that if people want that,

1470
02:13:41,280 --> 02:13:42,740
we want people to register the shoreline.

1471
02:13:43,220 --> 02:13:47,400
And as we saw in some of those slides, if you don't vegetate it, when you have an incident

1472
02:13:47,400 --> 02:13:51,920
like a slide, you're probably going to get vaccinated as they even vases, like a Scotch

1473
02:13:51,920 --> 02:13:52,220
room.

1474
02:13:52,820 --> 02:13:55,320
You know, it's what's typically going to move in.

1475
02:13:55,940 --> 02:13:57,200
So we do have that program.

1476
02:13:59,460 --> 02:14:00,480
Boat ramp signage.

1477
02:14:00,680 --> 02:14:04,740
They've talked about other interpretive displays that we have the devil's like radio.

1478
02:14:07,380 --> 02:14:10,940
Other recommendations, eradication of pioneer infestations.

1479
02:14:12,400 --> 02:14:15,740
So they're recommending ongoing monitored for early detection and then therefore if you

1480
02:14:15,740 --> 02:14:22,440
have detected something, you can maybe activate some sort of action that would help eliminate

1481
02:14:22,440 --> 02:14:23,060
that.

1482
02:14:23,180 --> 02:14:28,460
That might be a bottom barrier or diverse system section, as we talked about a few months ago.

1483
02:14:28,460 --> 02:14:32,740
That's that targeted bang. Okay, we can effectively

1484
02:14:35,840 --> 02:14:41,000
eradicate something from a small area such as such as near-regotter grounds where you have the

1485
02:14:41,000 --> 02:14:48,500
infestate infestation come about you know this hypothetical now because of that both that came in so by monitoring

1486
02:14:49,560 --> 02:14:54,680
Makes sense and I think you know we'll you know we went just have to look through budgetary means

1487
02:14:54,680 --> 02:14:56,940
It's that how we we look at this in the future

1488
02:14:56,940 --> 02:14:58,900
But that's pretty much it.

1489
02:15:01,420 --> 02:15:10,620
You know, there's, you know, we can go into it at greater depth later, if you want. I, I, I, I felt like this would probably be enough based on the meeting load that we had.

1490
02:15:11,820 --> 02:15:20,820
But, you know, and certainly if you have any questions, it's Joe peppers has it of course already and he's looked at it and incorporated points of it.

1491
02:15:20,820 --> 02:15:24,540
I'm going to make sure that he includes those out.

1492
02:15:25,260 --> 02:15:30,160
The Eurasian milk foil and resultant all idea that aren't found currently.

1493
02:15:30,180 --> 02:15:32,280
That was like a coordinate of this study.

1494
02:15:33,060 --> 02:15:36,000
Hopefully, it was comprehensive enough.

1495
02:15:36,240 --> 02:15:36,640
That was a goal.

1496
02:15:36,820 --> 02:15:40,440
They did do a pretty comprehensive study to 250 passes or something.

1497
02:15:41,520 --> 02:15:42,740
So 400 sites.

1498
02:15:43,240 --> 02:15:47,700
Anyway, there's any questions we can bring them back,

1499
02:15:47,700 --> 02:15:52,040
or just talking to me, uh, uh, uh, you know, in the office sometime too.

1500
02:15:58,360 --> 02:15:58,980
That's it.

1501
02:16:02,160 --> 02:16:02,480
All right, Goldstone.

1502
02:16:03,600 --> 02:16:07,500
Okay, so we had our Goldstone in October 13th.

1503
02:16:08,240 --> 02:16:12,460
Um, had, um, a review of those minutes.

1504
02:16:12,940 --> 02:16:16,500
Pull together this, uh, thanks to the help of Linda.

1505
02:16:17,980 --> 02:16:17,980
Um,

1506
02:16:19,990 --> 02:16:25,570
and what it's showing is the highest ranking items from your survey that we did.

1507
02:16:25,570 --> 02:16:28,250
we had that, remember we did that online survey,

1508
02:16:28,510 --> 02:16:30,190
we got a fair amount of respondents.

1509
02:16:30,550 --> 02:16:32,010
I don't recall the numbers there.

1510
02:16:32,030 --> 02:16:35,730
We got quite a few respondents, prioritizing

1511
02:16:35,730 --> 02:16:38,550
septic tank revitalization, sanitary sewer,

1512
02:16:39,370 --> 02:16:40,990
invasive species prevention shoreline,

1513
02:16:40,990 --> 02:16:44,130
repairing vegetation in the SOS program again,

1514
02:16:44,970 --> 02:16:46,210
and erosion prevention settlement control.

1515
02:16:46,210 --> 02:16:48,450
Those were the top external controls from the survey,

1516
02:16:48,990 --> 02:16:50,290
and I'm not going to read these for you

1517
02:16:50,290 --> 02:16:51,350
because you've got to admit front of you,

1518
02:16:52,090 --> 02:16:54,550
but what I'm hoping to have happen

1519
02:16:54,550 --> 02:17:01,930
as a way of creating like a next top five if that's if that's your intent through this

1520
02:17:01,930 --> 02:17:11,330
process is to just the board to provide really a clear goal or objective. Something that's

1521
02:17:11,330 --> 02:17:18,770
really targeted within these parameters that I think you've voiced in the public as echoed

1522
02:17:18,770 --> 02:17:24,530
in a lot of ways. Within these external controls, these in-like treatments, this education

1523
02:17:25,050 --> 02:17:25,650
and stuff,

1524
02:17:28,960 --> 02:17:35,780
send me your real targeted objectives, and we'll put that into our January

1525
02:17:35,780 --> 02:17:41,780
meeting, and if we only get one from each of you, maybe that's it, and we should just ask

1526
02:17:41,780 --> 02:17:47,480
for one from each of you, I think that there might be some overlap and that might leave us

1527
02:17:47,480 --> 02:17:54,440
with one goal or two goals, so maybe we could ask two or three from each, and then we can

1528
02:17:54,440 --> 02:17:58,440
kind of, we've done in previous years is just, you know, like, those are both on it.

1529
02:17:58,800 --> 02:18:01,360
Then, you know, we, or, or, however you want to come to consensus.

1530
02:18:03,480 --> 02:18:05,640
If that's, if that's a reasonable request.

1531
02:18:06,480 --> 02:18:09,420
You know, I think three to five would go

1532
02:18:13,710 --> 02:18:14,670
against, you know,

1533
02:18:14,710 --> 02:18:19,810
figure out what next top five are, right, or maybe they're the same as what they are to this.

1534
02:18:19,810 --> 02:18:23,390
Yeah, right, exactly. And there's some ongoing ones there that are very important.

1535
02:18:23,810 --> 02:18:27,110
And I wouldn't expect the district to run away from Grascarb, you know,

1536
02:18:29,690 --> 02:18:39,050
I think the idea is to just, you know, what are we going to move into next and, you know, if we end up with a top 7 or something to you, I don't think that's a bad thing.

1537
02:18:39,190 --> 02:18:52,910
I know we had discussions years ago about, well, we should have a top 20 or top, you know, however many, whatever we're listing, we should just all recognize that these are, and certain things happen.

1538
02:18:54,130 --> 02:18:59,410
and explicitly that might help move the one that goal that was way at the bottom would

1539
02:18:59,410 --> 02:19:04,210
write to the top because it's you know it's DQ wants to do a project here oh we wanted to

1540
02:19:04,210 --> 02:19:09,150
do a project but we thought that was out of our you know capacity at the time but bang

1541
02:19:09,150 --> 02:19:15,410
it's not so but what would really help me is like taking a look at these kind of bullet points

1542
02:19:15,410 --> 02:19:22,050
and just actually writing the the goal so if you can just provide the sentence that would make

1543
02:19:22,050 --> 02:19:27,050
it really simple because otherwise I'm going to be having to interpret what you're saying

1544
02:19:27,670 --> 02:19:34,310
and to write a goal and it would just be easier if we just got a list of like if we

1545
02:19:34,310 --> 02:19:39,610
got three from each of you and 15 if we got five from each of you 25 whether or not they

1546
02:19:39,610 --> 02:19:44,430
overlap or not and then we can prioritize it would be from this list here.

1547
02:19:45,130 --> 02:19:48,370
Well you know if there's something else and I actually add this thank you for that.

1548
02:19:48,370 --> 02:19:52,290
If there's something that we've missed, please bring it forward.

1549
02:19:52,890 --> 02:19:53,170
Absolutely.

1550
02:19:53,650 --> 02:19:54,350
Yeah, thank you.

1551
02:19:54,550 --> 02:19:57,710
So like, you know, the discussion item on the coal I made,

1552
02:19:59,370 --> 02:20:00,370
when I brought that up,

1553
02:20:00,550 --> 02:20:04,370
I would assume the goal is to, you know, do some sort of,

1554
02:20:06,730 --> 02:20:09,790
you know, to bring it down below the levels of, you know,

1555
02:20:10,110 --> 02:20:11,130
where it's dangerous though.

1556
02:20:11,150 --> 02:20:11,430
Right.

1557
02:20:12,310 --> 02:20:17,070
The goal would be to reduce it down to where we eliminate that hot zone.

1558
02:20:18,110 --> 02:20:29,910
You know, in terms of, you know, doing things to, you know, that maybe discouraging signals or whatever that is, you know, just to get that down, looking at ways that we can, you know, accomplish.

1559
02:20:31,690 --> 02:20:36,830
And, and that would be specific enough of a goal.

1560
02:20:37,590 --> 02:20:43,410
If there's another layer below that, you know, more specific that you have, go ahead and put that one too.

1561
02:20:43,410 --> 02:20:50,310
You know what I mean, but that that that's a very admirable goal and then we can come back and say well

1562
02:20:50,310 --> 02:20:55,430
To meet that goal, we can look at these three fourth five things and say, oh, this is practical

1563
02:20:55,430 --> 02:20:58,770
This one would be practical if we did you know whatever the case may be

1564
02:21:00,010 --> 02:21:02,490
So let me get this straight

1565
02:21:11,560 --> 02:21:16,260
Seagulls back necessarily be what so it's what select to do

1566
02:21:16,260 --> 02:21:19,080
In the discussion during the goals

1567
02:21:20,160 --> 02:21:28,580
I had said, you know, when we looked at, you know, you know, when I was mentioning it, I was doing it in context of, you know, what are some,

1568
02:21:30,980 --> 02:21:38,650
center is important to do that, right? Either getting rid of the sand bars, have a, you know,

1569
02:21:39,070 --> 02:21:45,090
open a little bit not to navigation, you know, perspective to get rid of the seagulls, right?

1570
02:21:45,090 --> 02:21:47,870
And other means that might be,

1571
02:21:50,180 --> 02:21:53,860
so it was just, in reference to what could we look at.

1572
02:21:54,140 --> 02:21:54,620
What was that?

1573
02:21:55,540 --> 02:21:58,200
Two goal itself is not to drag it.

1574
02:21:58,200 --> 02:22:05,100
The two goal is to reduce the E.C.O.I. to green levels.

1575
02:22:06,300 --> 02:22:10,740
And some of the ways that we could do that would potentially be to drag your discouraged

1576
02:22:10,740 --> 02:22:11,460
Seagull activity.

1577
02:22:13,620 --> 02:22:15,920
So that's what that was in relation to.

1578
02:22:15,920 --> 02:22:24,130
right. Now you may want to make it navigable down. I just think in terms of the cost of

1579
02:22:24,130 --> 02:22:32,130
something like that. Sure, that's it's been done before. God's fortune man. Yeah, it was

1580
02:22:32,130 --> 02:22:38,110
60 grand. I know one one bill that was paid by the district. 60 grand or somebody. I don't know

1581
02:22:38,110 --> 02:22:41,610
if it was all the district that paid it but there was a bill of 60 thousand dollars. I saw for age

1582
02:22:41,610 --> 02:22:46,790
25 years ago, yeah, well even less than I probably in the 90s after like the 96

1583
02:22:46,790 --> 02:22:47,530
months probably.

1584
02:22:49,820 --> 02:22:55,960
But yeah, so that would be, I think, a little way of moving this

1585
02:22:55,960 --> 02:23:02,540
forward and we'll take, you know, because then we, you know, you've already provided me

1586
02:23:02,540 --> 02:23:07,880
the list, we can have people make a case for, you know, you can have your discussions

1587
02:23:07,880 --> 02:23:14,900
about it and then just prioritize from that, and you know, inform each other offline too.

1588
02:23:15,120 --> 02:23:19,200
You know, hey, this is what I'm thinking, you know, like the such as, you know, we can do this,

1589
02:23:19,200 --> 02:23:19,860
this is too.

1590
02:23:19,980 --> 02:23:24,360
I mean, you know, these are goals that you're formulating for the district.

1591
02:23:24,900 --> 02:23:32,020
So the more communications you guys have, one to one, and the better, you know, so that,

1592
02:23:32,020 --> 02:23:35,200
you know, this time here is the decision making.

1593
02:23:35,200 --> 02:23:42,620
you can tell the public where how you came to your decisions, you know, and how justified,

1594
02:23:44,400 --> 02:23:49,560
but it's expensive format too, and in two hours is already coming up. We're already

1595
02:23:49,560 --> 02:23:51,800
past two and a half hours for our meeting for that, and I guess to be able to be able to

1596
02:23:51,800 --> 02:23:55,440
not miss these. It's an interest of time and sanity.

1597
02:23:59,420 --> 02:24:04,520
So, and when do you need those five calls? Well, do you have the date of our next meeting?

1598
02:24:04,520 --> 02:24:19,920
It's the, this is the 10th, 10th, 10th, 10th, and we're, well then, how about like, is the third, is that like a Thursday, it would be a Friday,

1599
02:24:25,110 --> 02:24:26,950
ideally by the second, I think,

1600
02:24:29,440 --> 02:24:29,440
right,

1601
02:24:31,500 --> 02:24:35,120
actually, oops, it just shut off,

1602
02:24:39,810 --> 02:24:42,450
is that going to be it?

1603
02:24:42,450 --> 02:24:43,550
Jane, are you saying?

1604
02:24:48,340 --> 02:24:48,600
No.

1605
02:24:49,260 --> 02:24:49,700
All right.

1606
02:24:49,920 --> 02:24:52,680
Just to clarify that, what we're doing,

1607
02:24:54,180 --> 02:24:55,620
or for a bunch of different suggestions,

1608
02:24:56,440 --> 02:24:58,800
but how about what we do as we each give you

1609
02:24:58,800 --> 02:25:01,500
our top by all?

1610
02:25:03,710 --> 02:25:04,050
Yeah.

1611
02:25:05,590 --> 02:25:07,330
I mean, if somebody's got a burning desire

1612
02:25:07,330 --> 02:25:08,930
and a put in a sex fine,

1613
02:25:09,430 --> 02:25:12,630
but basically, so you do this in a consistent way.

1614
02:25:13,090 --> 02:25:14,210
We each give you five.

1615
02:25:14,630 --> 02:25:14,650
Yeah.

1616
02:25:15,630 --> 02:25:22,810
Um, you know, I'm fine with getting them that this the Monday before I'm eating too.

1617
02:25:23,270 --> 02:25:25,850
Um, we have to have them in time to put the pack in.

1618
02:25:25,850 --> 02:25:26,950
It would be nice to get them in the packet.

1619
02:25:28,170 --> 02:25:30,210
So, um, shoot for the second.

1620
02:25:31,090 --> 02:25:31,370
Yeah.

1621
02:25:31,830 --> 02:25:32,610
That'd be great.

1622
02:25:35,960 --> 02:25:36,340
It's a prize.

1623
02:25:39,420 --> 02:25:39,860
Okay.

1624
02:25:44,030 --> 02:25:45,490
Any other questions on the goal setting?

1625
02:25:48,540 --> 02:25:48,620
Okay.

1626
02:25:49,040 --> 02:25:49,560
So, uh,

1627
02:25:50,560 --> 02:25:51,960
Just less pointed to version one.

1628
02:25:52,820 --> 02:25:53,140
Okay.

1629
02:25:53,680 --> 02:25:56,420
Um, I haven't read this since I've written a road.

1630
02:25:56,420 --> 02:26:14,960
So I don't have to reflect to it, but the water right here that we're talking about we're calling this less point of diversion is actually the city of Lincoln City's water right on Brock Creek that they have, you know, with with the Confederated Tribes or Chinook wins the applicants.

1631
02:26:16,900 --> 02:26:23,040
two water resources created a second point of diversion. So instead of grabbing water up the hill and rock creek

1632
02:26:23,040 --> 02:26:33,140
where the dam was, or slightly still is, they pursued a water right, the same water right.

1633
02:26:33,280 --> 02:26:38,340
A different point of diversion on that existing water right on Devs Lake, and it's all this less point of diversion.

1634
02:26:38,680 --> 02:26:42,460
So I want to be clear that it's the city of Lincoln City's water right that we're talking about here.

1635
02:26:42,460 --> 02:26:46,100
And it's a municipal water ride on that, that tributary.

1636
02:26:47,460 --> 02:26:55,680
So it's basically for 2.5 cubic feet per second, and what this new water ride that was

1637
02:26:55,680 --> 02:27:06,540
actually approved, which we supported for a number of reasons, limits the amount, it's

1638
02:27:06,540 --> 02:27:12,300
And basically 75 acre feet of water that was a goal, that the golf course felt that they

1639
02:27:12,300 --> 02:27:19,640
needed for irrigation to supplement their existing tributaries coming through their property.

1640
02:27:21,860 --> 02:27:30,280
Now that water would be taken over at least 75 days, so the actual transfer of water is at

1641
02:27:30,280 --> 02:27:33,660
a maximum rate of 0.5 CFS cubic feet per second.

1642
02:27:35,980 --> 02:27:40,380
This last point at a version was in the Northwest arm, right across from Blueharing.

1643
02:27:41,200 --> 02:27:45,940
I was put in, and they've actually just started using it this last year.

1644
02:27:48,580 --> 02:27:56,980
And, you know, I guess the crux of what I want to report back to you is what that usage was.

1645
02:27:56,980 --> 02:28:04,820
And look, it would look like probably in the future, and I got an email from Jeff Colmer,

1646
02:28:05,040 --> 02:28:08,040
I hope I'm going to pronounce this right correctly, who was the new superintendent.

1647
02:28:08,340 --> 02:28:15,520
He wasn't here when we spoke about this a few years ago, but he's the one that's in charge

1648
02:28:15,520 --> 02:28:24,540
of that, and so they activated it, and what they use of the total 75 acre feed that they had

1649
02:28:24,540 --> 02:28:31,420
to was 14 acre feet. So like 16% of that or something like that. Significantly less.

1650
02:28:34,620 --> 02:28:39,400
And it was his estimation that they'd actually probably use less water in subsequent

1651
02:28:39,400 --> 02:28:47,360
years that maybe like less dry. Because June was wet as we know, but August, July, August,

1652
02:28:47,480 --> 02:28:51,400
and September, I think there was one day of rain in August, a slight rain.

1653
02:28:51,400 --> 02:28:54,340
So it was a really pretty far, I played some of them.

1654
02:28:55,360 --> 02:29:03,320
So there are 75 acre feet needs, maybe, you know, obviously in this first year of data

1655
02:29:03,320 --> 02:29:04,540
show that they didn't need that much.

1656
02:29:04,540 --> 02:29:05,160
So that's good.

1657
02:29:05,380 --> 02:29:06,760
So they're actually needing less water.

1658
02:29:09,740 --> 02:29:19,840
Now I wanted to find out what that look like for rock creek generally, and there's a really

1659
02:29:19,840 --> 02:29:27,700
data set about rock crease water and it's published on our website in the diagnostic and feasibility

1660
02:29:27,700 --> 02:29:37,520
study from 1983. And the last paper packet has a table 3.5.1 and it highlights a highlighted

1661
02:29:37,520 --> 02:29:44,400
July August and September for the total amount of water that came through that system. And these

1662
02:29:44,400 --> 02:29:51,000
numbers are highly, you know, we're, we're collected on a daily matter because the city was running their waste

1663
02:29:51,000 --> 02:29:55,560
water shooting, our drinking water plant based on these numbers, so they actually had a collect daily record.

1664
02:29:55,740 --> 02:29:59,960
So these these data are really great solid for this, for this year.

1665
02:30:01,970 --> 02:30:16,670
And what it shows is, and I've summed it, I've kind of like added stuff to their original table. So the table itself has some blue-colored ink, kind of three quarters of the way down.

1666
02:30:16,670 --> 02:30:29,370
It says maximum water, right? So 75 acre feet, which computes to about 92,000 cubic meters, which is about 3% of rock creek in the summer months that are shown in yellow.

1667
02:30:29,370 --> 02:30:49,170
So, only about 3% of the water of that kind of water that's typically coming on that system would be necessary to meet the needs of the golf course of which only about one sixth of that was actually used.

1668
02:30:49,930 --> 02:30:56,870
So they only needed these 14 acre feet, which is basically about a half a percent of the water,

1669
02:30:56,870 --> 02:31:02,750
typically coming out of rock creek in a set of months. So that's comforting to find because

1670
02:31:02,750 --> 02:31:07,830
when I was looking at this originally it was looking at like well rock creek can get pretty low

1671
02:31:07,830 --> 02:31:13,590
you know we can get down there a couple you know seven CFS a minute and if they're taking out a half a CFS

1672
02:31:14,830 --> 02:31:19,850
a second I mean if they're taking out a half well that's a pretty large fraction you know

1673
02:31:21,290 --> 02:31:26,130
15th and if it gets down to 5 CFS and they're taking out a half, well that's, you know,

1674
02:31:26,310 --> 02:31:27,990
ten percent, right?

1675
02:31:29,310 --> 02:31:35,870
But it's seemingly more like a 1 half to, you know, maybe up to 3%.

1676
02:31:36,270 --> 02:31:41,970
And the other benefit is that the water, as we know, is extracted after it's already come

1677
02:31:41,970 --> 02:31:47,870
through the system from a visual wildlife perspective, that water stays in the stream.

1678
02:31:48,530 --> 02:31:53,510
It goes all the way through the wetlands, comes in and doubles like provides cold water

1679
02:31:53,510 --> 02:31:59,910
refugia for some on it, these threatened species, all the way down gets warmed up when

1680
02:31:59,910 --> 02:32:03,670
it hits doubles like because it's sitting in the sun now it's not running down hill because

1681
02:32:03,670 --> 02:32:11,250
those lakes warming up and then gets extracted later so in that respect it's guaranteed

1682
02:32:11,250 --> 02:32:15,870
like a flow of water through that system. By virtue of the extraction,

1683
02:32:17,190 --> 02:32:21,830
happening in Devil's Lake, there's a guarantee of water that has to get to

1684
02:32:21,830 --> 02:32:27,310
Devil's Lake. And it's a small percentage as if these data

1685
02:32:27,310 --> 02:32:34,270
represent a typical year, but even if they don't, you know, it's, I was

1686
02:32:34,270 --> 02:32:39,570
happy to see that it was a lot less than I anticipated, frankly. So, the other

1687
02:32:39,570 --> 02:32:46,170
elements that I need to provide feedback to and the other interest was the nutrient reduction.

1688
02:32:46,490 --> 02:32:51,710
That was one of the main reasons that we supported this sleds point of diversion.

1689
02:32:53,670 --> 02:32:59,830
And frankly, you know, had a nice long talk with Jeff and he's very open in very communicative

1690
02:32:59,830 --> 02:33:06,330
and happy to share new stuff, new data, but they actually don't have a record of what they

1691
02:33:06,330 --> 02:33:09,570
applied in the past, and I was hoping that they, at least,

1692
02:33:09,830 --> 02:33:13,470
have maybe a monetary value to it and say,

1693
02:33:13,530 --> 02:33:15,670
well, the bag of fertilizer costs, X, Y, Z.

1694
02:33:15,730 --> 02:33:19,190
But he said that the data just aren't there to provide.

1695
02:33:21,990 --> 02:33:26,450
But he has committed to doing monitoring of the streams

1696
02:33:26,450 --> 02:33:29,270
that run through that, through the golf course,

1697
02:33:29,470 --> 02:33:33,910
and it ended up was like, pre and post of the golf course

1698
02:33:34,390 --> 02:33:43,370
in an attempt to look at impacts or potential impacts and hopefully, no impacts of nutrients coming

1699
02:33:43,850 --> 02:33:45,730
on to down to a devil's lake.

1700
02:33:46,530 --> 02:33:50,910
So that was a nice commitment and I, like he suggested that the district could do a complimentary

1701
02:33:50,910 --> 02:33:57,150
set of data run off suite of nutrient analyses, you know, and do it on it, you know, another

1702
02:33:57,150 --> 02:34:01,510
week or a new year week or do it at the same time if we wanted to have, you know, replicate

1703
02:34:01,510 --> 02:34:06,610
example or whatever you, and then we could look at this and look at it from a nutrient perspective for a term,

1704
02:34:06,830 --> 02:34:09,710
you know, is there nutrients being adverse?

1705
02:34:10,550 --> 02:34:12,890
Are nutrients coming in off the golf course?

1706
02:34:13,450 --> 02:34:14,810
And in his estimation, they aren't.

1707
02:34:15,170 --> 02:34:18,310
And so, you know, he's happy to look at that.

1708
02:34:19,610 --> 02:34:22,250
So that's pretty much what I have for you.

1709
02:34:22,910 --> 02:34:27,390
That was the first year of the implementation of that.

1710
02:34:27,390 --> 02:34:34,730
point of vision and wait till like a sixteenth of minutes of water or something. Oh, well, yeah,

1711
02:34:35,870 --> 02:34:39,050
it's basically immeasurable in a lot of respects.

1712
02:34:41,670 --> 02:34:45,670
The 75 acre feet would have equated to,

1713
02:34:46,330 --> 02:34:52,830
I think, one inch, five sixteenths of water seems to stick in my head for some reason. That would have

1714
02:34:52,830 --> 02:35:00,950
75 acre feet, which kind of makes sense you've got 688 acres and you want 75 acre feet.

1715
02:35:01,430 --> 02:35:07,650
So you stretch that need out, but the acre foot being all the way across the foot

1716
02:35:07,650 --> 02:35:13,830
need at 75 acres would do it, but then you go down 680 and then it's like, it should

1717
02:35:13,830 --> 02:35:16,830
half. That's at the full 75.

1718
02:35:18,530 --> 02:35:20,730
That if you were to pull it all at one shot.

1719
02:35:21,250 --> 02:35:28,890
It is, you know. So pretty much in discernible effect, certainly the lake level.

1720
02:35:30,010 --> 02:35:34,490
You know, I think we heard that from public comment or to one point that somebody brought that forward.

1721
02:35:35,130 --> 02:35:39,050
You know, it's been monitoring this pretty regularly in the top two, so appreciate that.

1722
02:35:39,050 --> 02:35:41,530
And, yeah,

1723
02:35:43,650 --> 02:35:54,970
the other benefit that I've, or the other, not an impact that I was happy to see was that percentage of actual flow being barely low of the total.

1724
02:35:56,710 --> 02:36:05,810
For, you know, and it's, it's days in the stream, you know, it doesn't get, it doesn't get harnessed until after it hits the levels like systems, bottom of the system.

1725
02:36:07,190 --> 02:36:20,330
It's really, it's really hard for me to buy the fact that they have no information or data regarding fertilizer use in previous years.

1726
02:36:20,450 --> 02:36:28,270
I mean, they know how much they buy and get the records of what they purchased on the supplier and previous.

1727
02:36:28,270 --> 02:36:36,390
and have a good baseline to have, so I mean, they can give us the future years, use, or next years,

1728
02:36:36,630 --> 02:36:38,910
use, and have some basis for comparison?

1729
02:36:41,090 --> 02:36:46,910
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I frankly was surprised to, I thought, you know, we could hopefully

1730
02:36:46,910 --> 02:36:51,850
have seen something relative to use application rates, you know, or anything,

1731
02:36:53,930 --> 02:36:56,590
but what was conveyed

1732
02:36:56,590 --> 02:37:05,750
to me is that when it comes to, you know, application of fertilizer, the, you know,

1733
02:37:08,250 --> 02:37:08,390
you're

1734
02:37:08,390 --> 02:37:13,330
not going to get runoff of that provided you know when you're fertilizing and you know

1735
02:37:13,330 --> 02:37:19,730
when it's going to rain and, you know, he was very adamant that, you know, he's judicious

1736
02:37:19,730 --> 02:37:23,970
in the use and will not be, you know, fertilizing in a rainstorm we're getting hit by,

1737
02:37:23,970 --> 02:37:30,870
or over fertilizing, and so that's when the plant then can consume the need, and then

1738
02:37:30,870 --> 02:37:36,070
he's suggesting that the fatch layer will then make use of all block basically, all the nutrients

1739
02:37:36,070 --> 02:37:37,990
from migrating to the groundwater.

1740
02:37:40,230 --> 02:37:46,330
And by large, if you only feed a plant, what it means, that would be true, and then provided

1741
02:37:46,330 --> 02:37:53,950
you also take those grass clippings, and you're not composting them in an area that is

1742
02:37:53,950 --> 02:38:03,950
You know, it can go to groundwater or it can go to a stream channel or something else, you know, it's a full practice that you have to do.

1743
02:38:04,210 --> 02:38:14,750
But even if they're just feeding the golf course what it needs, the idea I thought was it's supposed to need less because getting this nutrient rich water from the lake.

1744
02:38:14,750 --> 02:38:24,370
So, you know, whether it binds fertilizer with a turf binds fertilizer, it still should require less.

1745
02:38:24,690 --> 02:38:25,250
Yeah, absolutely.

1746
02:38:26,090 --> 02:38:29,290
Just be nice to know that they're using less.

1747
02:38:31,110 --> 02:38:36,910
In the event that he's wrong, some of it does actually run off into the back of the way.

1748
02:38:38,010 --> 02:38:39,530
Less, running into it.

1749
02:38:39,530 --> 02:38:47,090
I can definitely try to reconnect with those and have that conversation again and maybe he

1750
02:38:47,090 --> 02:38:52,270
found something since, but you know he said that the records that he came into or frankly

1751
02:38:52,270 --> 02:38:53,210
not very good.

1752
02:38:53,490 --> 02:38:59,330
That record he did not represent those data for whatever that's worth.

1753
02:39:00,550 --> 02:39:07,890
I did bring to the attention the idea of heart and parcel to the idea of using nutrient-rich

1754
02:39:07,890 --> 02:39:08,070
water.

1755
02:39:08,070 --> 02:39:10,610
He said, well, you know, the nutrients that comes like, yeah, they're going to, they're

1756
02:39:10,610 --> 02:39:14,610
ill supplement, but you're still going to need to grow turf grass, you're still going

1757
02:39:14,610 --> 02:39:15,550
to be supplementing, quite a bit.

1758
02:39:15,570 --> 02:39:19,170
Well, I understand, but it should make some different.

1759
02:39:19,530 --> 02:39:19,590
Yeah.

1760
02:39:19,730 --> 02:39:26,010
But the other point that I made to him that I don't think he was aware of is, or he hadn't

1761
02:39:26,010 --> 02:39:32,190
considered, was this idea of this chlorinated water tap water being applied to the turf,

1762
02:39:32,190 --> 02:39:40,190
which basically kills the biota, any microbes in the soil, which you have a really key role in nutrient recycling.

1763
02:39:42,490 --> 02:39:47,650
So, whether or not, I mean, I would love, I want to see hard numbers.

1764
02:39:47,970 --> 02:39:53,630
I thought I was in an impression that we were going to see some numbers from the previous talks we had.

1765
02:39:53,650 --> 02:39:54,870
Soft numbers would be fine.

1766
02:39:56,050 --> 02:40:15,030
But, you know, there is, I do have scientifically a high level confidence that the turf will be healthier relative to where it was, with chlorinated tap water, and that's the nutrient recycling of microactivity is better, such that anything that's applied gets more utilization.

1767
02:40:16,190 --> 02:40:21,250
So that in itself would help lead to a reduction. The numbers, I love the same two.

1768
02:40:21,870 --> 02:40:27,430
Maybe we could just ask him as if they've used a consistent one or two suppliers over the years

1769
02:40:27,430 --> 02:40:33,650
that they can get some data from how much they've purchased so we can assume that they use with the purchase.

1770
02:40:34,010 --> 02:40:40,590
The comparative future years would just be nice to know that it's a win-win for everybody that I bet.

1771
02:40:41,370 --> 02:40:42,510
The nutrients available.

1772
02:40:43,090 --> 02:40:48,570
Putting them on the golf course and they're telling him he says they're not coming back because it's binding to the turf.

1773
02:40:48,570 --> 02:41:15,890
So I think that could be just a little nervous about, but it's not a times of fertilizer on our golf course and I have in the past three years, but I think it's like Ryan says I think it's a win-win for them to say yeah, we have an hour using nutrient which water which is helping us kind of back now this coming year we project only to put it on a huge savings for us and nutrient load.

1774
02:41:15,890 --> 02:41:22,850
I think you make it really good. I don't see how they could lose if they put the numbers after what they've done in the past if they can find it

1775
02:41:22,850 --> 02:41:29,110
But they're gonna have a hard time putting a fix on how much less they need because they won't know unless it burns

1776
02:41:29,110 --> 02:41:30,630
I suppose

1777
02:41:30,630 --> 02:41:34,610
Seriously over how do we need to know if they're using a little more than they need to

1778
02:41:38,590 --> 02:41:41,530
I hope that professional that would be something

1779
02:41:42,470 --> 02:41:48,190
Well, yeah, and typically superintendent, it does have a degree at, I know, the objective in agronomy.

1780
02:41:48,850 --> 02:41:51,830
So that's, that's, your soil science, your church science.

1781
02:41:52,010 --> 02:42:02,270
So, yeah, you know, the skill sets there, you know, and, you know, and we do have a commitment from the tribe and from,

1782
02:42:02,270 --> 02:42:06,370
in from Shnuk, when generally that, you know, they're, they're certainly on board with the environment.

1783
02:42:06,730 --> 02:42:10,510
I don't think you can think that that's not a major concern for them.

1784
02:42:10,510 --> 02:42:40,350
and so applaud them in that and I believe that and so, you know, yeah, I would mean I have more information, maybe we can get more, you know, and, you know, maybe the concerns are like you were saying, well, that's, that's a, you know, yeah, there's those, this is, you know, maybe there's some nervousness there, but, you know, stewardship moving forward, you know, I think, you know, the golf courses is in good hands,

1785
02:42:40,350 --> 02:42:48,510
relative to, I don't know who owned it, like side, whatever, I'm saying they did it

1786
02:42:48,510 --> 02:42:54,110
anymore better, but I'm just saying I think from an entity that does own it, I think we

1787
02:42:54,110 --> 02:42:57,430
do have a vested community member group owner.

1788
02:42:57,730 --> 02:43:02,390
I'm not at all doubting that they're on board with the technical environment, but I believe

1789
02:43:02,390 --> 02:43:02,930
that they are.

1790
02:43:03,510 --> 02:43:09,970
It just seems like maybe this was a glass still a little bit, and maybe really thought

1791
02:43:09,970 --> 02:43:18,770
about it, there is a way to get some data that we could, you know, compare a post or pre-extraction

1792
02:43:18,770 --> 02:43:26,990
of water from the lake versus post-extraction, yeah. I'm really thinking that what we would

1793
02:43:26,990 --> 02:43:33,870
see would be quite positive for both the golf course and the lake. Yeah, and I think like you're

1794
02:43:33,870 --> 02:43:40,770
You know if you got like three years of data and assume that they did use most of at least

1795
02:43:40,770 --> 02:43:45,730
at all three years or consume more or less by the time to divide that by three and then you had

1796
02:43:45,730 --> 02:43:50,390
another three years later you can at least say on average there was a reduction or something.

1797
02:43:50,830 --> 02:43:57,050
So I will definitely you know open up that channel communication again relative to that.

1798
02:43:57,130 --> 02:43:59,970
I mean even if they started this year, right?

1799
02:43:59,970 --> 02:44:06,790
Yeah, should see microbiology changes, other over the years, it should reduce.

1800
02:44:07,530 --> 02:44:16,650
Well, the chlorides are very short-lived, so it's really kind of an impact it cuts off

1801
02:44:16,650 --> 02:44:19,550
as soon as you stop eerie to those bounces back.

1802
02:44:19,650 --> 02:44:23,850
I think that was pretty resilient, yeah, because he actually tested the soils for chlorides

1803
02:44:23,850 --> 02:44:29,490
and found nothing, which makes sense because it rains, and the chlorides get picked up

1804
02:44:29,490 --> 02:44:37,810
get washed back through. But now, you know, you know, it's just like with your drinking water supply,

1805
02:44:38,150 --> 02:44:43,630
you know, as soon as that chlorine residual gets down below, I forget what they have to have

1806
02:44:43,630 --> 02:44:48,990
a one part for something million or billion. I can't remember if it's a million or a point five,

1807
02:44:48,990 --> 02:44:59,470
or whatever it is, once it gets below that, bacteria can start again, and it does. And so it's

1808
02:44:59,470 --> 02:44:59,970
and a lot.

1809
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:05,460
I have system that's just suppressed versus just like a sterile drinking water tank or something.

1810
02:45:14,030 --> 02:45:15,010
It's move on to non-agenda.

1811
02:45:17,800 --> 02:45:29,340
It's just kind of reference back to our original public comment period for the board in terms of providing

1812
02:45:29,340 --> 02:45:32,480
the letter to board for the just the activities.

1813
02:45:34,280 --> 02:45:40,160
I personally like to see if you've got the issue to that.

1814
02:45:40,160 --> 02:45:50,640
I think it would be beneficial, efficient to bring levels like a little to the

1815
02:45:52,780 --> 02:45:53,580
activity and

1816
02:45:53,580 --> 02:45:54,080
recreation.

1817
02:45:55,920 --> 02:46:01,520
I'd be willing to get and see if there's some staff time that would provide that system,

1818
02:46:01,880 --> 02:46:08,540
and kind of getting that first year, because I know experience and getting a god of grant,

1819
02:46:10,500 --> 02:46:11,820
set up from

1820
02:46:14,120 --> 02:46:15,020
the CS, you know.

1821
02:46:16,780 --> 02:46:27,500
some level and then considering doing some of the fighting some of the funding, if some

1822
02:46:27,500 --> 02:46:31,820
of the other sources can't make it happen, make that under consideration in a

1823
02:46:31,820 --> 02:46:38,080
future time to give it a chance.

1824
02:46:41,070 --> 02:46:46,110
So one of our, one of our, and I had to, I made that note on non-agenda items too, but the

1825
02:46:46,110 --> 02:46:56,110
I mean one of our very fundamental goals is their purposes and even in our enabling

1826
02:46:56,110 --> 02:47:06,970
statute says there were to be encouraging and recreational activity and to a great recreational activity

1827
02:47:06,970 --> 02:47:10,670
has an economic benefit for the city.

1828
02:47:10,670 --> 02:47:17,430
You can add some 38 or you can unpack study as a result of just ski races in the future.

1829
02:47:18,110 --> 02:47:23,410
So, the truth is that this is about how much that ski races add to an economy.

1830
02:47:24,150 --> 02:47:29,490
Much ask the National Association if they do have any information regarding that.

1831
02:47:29,730 --> 02:47:33,650
We're trying to do an economic impact study for devil's life.

1832
02:47:33,730 --> 02:47:34,830
They might have something.

1833
02:47:34,830 --> 02:47:35,370
That's

1834
02:48:07,500 --> 02:48:17,100
a can you come up and speak into the mic so that people can hear you and see, sorry, I know it, we're

1835
02:48:23,430 --> 02:48:42,790
come for two days and spend money in town and their kids spend money in the community while they're raising their jet skis and their goal is to get enough points in their competition through the summer.

1836
02:48:43,290 --> 02:48:47,690
that they go to Lake Havasu for the National Championship.

1837
02:48:51,550 --> 02:48:55,650
So I definitely think there's economic benefit, not to mention the spectators you might come

1838
02:48:55,650 --> 02:49:01,190
in the town, and just enjoy a minute of our citizens here, so definitely I want to see

1839
02:49:01,190 --> 02:49:03,010
what we can do to support you anyway we can.

1840
02:49:03,150 --> 02:49:06,950
I'm sure I miss part of your testimony here.

1841
02:49:07,410 --> 02:49:14,450
I have been one man show for instigating some excitement in Lincoln City since I moved down here

1842
02:49:14,450 --> 02:49:25,210
whole time, and I've got the Association, the Jetsky, the Jet Sports Association for the Pacific

1843
02:49:25,210 --> 02:49:35,730
Northwest Oregon, Idaho, and Washington that would like to have their first event of the

1844
02:49:35,730 --> 02:49:43,870
2013 season here, and Chinook Wins is going to be the presenter, which means we spend about

1845
02:49:43,870 --> 02:49:55,630
hundred dollars on our insurance policy, which is a $2 million liability policy that protects the city and the state.

1846
02:49:56,050 --> 02:50:01,590
The Jewa have you had any communication with the BCB about this at all?

1847
02:50:01,610 --> 02:50:03,890
Yes, we've got that base covered.

1848
02:50:04,050 --> 02:50:13,810
I've got that base covered, but I haven't gotten the application in and Roger Horneck from Omec Washington who's been the project.

1849
02:50:13,810 --> 02:50:23,810
manager for the Jetsky Association is completing that. I hope tonight when he goes home and

1850
02:50:24,490 --> 02:50:31,290
then he'll email it to me and I'll take it in to Sandra. Yeah, the paperwork's pretty simple. Yeah.

1851
02:50:33,320 --> 02:50:38,860
Well, Miles, I would bet that if you have some kind of economic information I was looking for, but you know,

1852
02:50:38,860 --> 02:50:44,920
how much each jet-skiing family brings to the community for the weekend in terms of meals,

1853
02:50:45,320 --> 02:50:50,580
purchase, hotel rooms, purchase, et cetera. And because those kinds of associations

1854
02:50:50,580 --> 02:50:56,900
might to keep that kind of date and have it so they can, they can, they probably have, have it.

1855
02:50:57,280 --> 02:50:58,300
Yeah, that's not quite for now.

1856
02:50:58,820 --> 02:51:08,440
Sure. So I'll get that tomorrow and I reported back to Paul and he can get it out to you in an email.

1857
02:51:09,820 --> 02:51:18,060
But anyway, I think the consensus is we support you doing a letter of support for the jet ski races.

1858
02:51:19,480 --> 02:51:23,240
Okay, so do we need a motion for that or are we giving it?

1859
02:51:23,280 --> 02:51:24,780
Oh, I'll make that motion.

1860
02:51:27,050 --> 02:51:27,430
All those things.

1861
02:51:27,870 --> 02:51:28,170
Hi.

1862
02:51:31,440 --> 02:51:34,920
So can you drive that up for tomorrow and I'll sign up for seeing the morning?

1863
02:51:35,100 --> 02:51:35,400
Sure.

1864
02:51:35,980 --> 02:51:36,020
Yeah.

1865
02:51:36,240 --> 02:51:37,780
Miles can pick it up.

1866
02:51:38,000 --> 02:51:38,100
Yeah.

1867
02:51:38,800 --> 02:51:39,340
And be great.

1868
02:51:42,940 --> 02:51:51,020
Can you give all the particulars first thing in the morning is to, you know, who I need to address that to?

1869
02:51:51,300 --> 02:51:58,260
Okay, it's Heather Hatton, who is the marketing director, or the director?

1870
02:51:58,260 --> 02:52:01,620
Dr. Cunary, Cunary, how was relationship director?

1871
02:52:02,460 --> 02:52:03,700
Actually, okay.

1872
02:52:05,220 --> 02:52:06,400
They seem to have written her.

1873
02:52:06,820 --> 02:52:07,500
Okay, good.

1874
02:52:08,780 --> 02:52:09,160
Good night.

1875
02:52:09,580 --> 02:52:10,120
Thank you, thanks.

1876
02:52:10,720 --> 02:52:13,380
And I hope that I don't feel comes together.

1877
02:52:17,160 --> 02:52:18,000
I think that's valid.

1878
02:52:18,960 --> 02:52:22,240
You know, I'm working on some other project for us.

1879
02:52:24,340 --> 02:52:30,040
I wouldn't object to providing, you know, after we find out what the VCB does, as far as

1880
02:52:30,040 --> 02:52:34,320
grants them, they're being pretty flexible to my knowledge.

1881
02:52:35,080 --> 02:52:40,740
I sure wouldn't object to working with them to provide maybe some financial

1882
02:52:40,740 --> 02:52:43,940
If need as well, let's

1883
02:53:22,300 --> 02:53:29,400
make sure you just disqualify this all five I'm glad you support it

1884
02:53:34,780 --> 02:53:36,220
Thank you, Moff

1885
02:53:36,220 --> 02:53:48,560
I see any additional public comment. I must even know I see something over here and board announcements or comments

1886
02:53:50,480 --> 02:53:54,100
I'm going to make a comment, and I'm going to apologize for it up front.

1887
02:53:56,080 --> 02:53:56,300
No.

1888
02:53:57,180 --> 02:54:02,940
When you're going to sail, if you ever look over to the sides of those big fields outside of

1889
02:54:02,940 --> 02:54:08,520
sailing the side of it, you see cutouts, usually steel, cutouts of coyotes, once in a while

1890
02:54:08,520 --> 02:54:11,240
you even see a billowing ball legal.

1891
02:54:12,180 --> 02:54:17,260
And you can go down and for your own garden, you can buy a plastic owl to put up there.

1892
02:54:17,260 --> 02:54:25,160
First of all, you should have some idea of whether or not those things are just to get the gullible or whether or not they actually work

1893
02:54:25,160 --> 02:54:30,050
And I was thinking in terms of these two these birds that we have that screw up the

1894
02:54:30,640 --> 02:54:35,470
Exit of the lake. Why you put a big ball legal on one of those logs out there

1895
02:54:35,980 --> 02:54:46,000
Yeah, that would work at all. I know that they certainly have short term benefit whether or not they have long term benefit as far as being naive and getting to tourists. I got

1896
02:54:47,600 --> 02:54:53,520
bamboozled and Vermont with a bison or something I stared at and a bunch of other people on the side of the road

1897
02:54:53,520 --> 02:55:04,000
My neighbor came by and I was staring at the bison, so yeah, yeah, yeah, they get blood pretty good and so whether that works long term for seagulls and other birds

1898
02:55:05,580 --> 02:55:07,100
You know, that's maybe

1899
02:55:07,640 --> 02:55:14,340
To be seen, but you know, you do see people around the lake that have like a a bald eagle on their dock or something

1900
02:55:14,340 --> 02:55:16,080
There's a couple examples of that and

1901
02:55:17,260 --> 02:55:21,860
shadows of a coyote you know that that could make a difference I think it could I know

1902
02:55:21,860 --> 02:55:28,280
those from many ranchers and farmers you know that could move in every once

1903
02:55:28,280 --> 02:55:32,460
and while so it gets brand new life each time yeah yeah could get an animatronic

1904
02:55:32,460 --> 02:55:37,340
thing going on too but yeah and that's definitely consideration and you look at

1905
02:55:37,340 --> 02:55:43,040
this bacteria thing you know it's of discouraging seagulls you know the first thing

1906
02:55:43,040 --> 02:55:45,520
I think it's getting the humans to quit feed them.

1907
02:55:45,720 --> 02:55:50,680
That's the biggest encouragement is getting the populations where they're not stained

1908
02:55:50,680 --> 02:55:56,880
outside of their natural habitat, which is, you know, we would go down if you're not

1909
02:55:56,880 --> 02:55:59,880
being, you know, and I think we've seen benefit there.

1910
02:56:00,060 --> 02:56:02,800
We've seen less people feeding and we could be better at the D River.

1911
02:56:03,560 --> 02:56:07,200
Well, the great growers deal with bird populations too.

1912
02:56:07,200 --> 02:56:12,660
I don't know what tools they use, something might be cheaper than a $65,000

1913
02:56:12,660 --> 02:56:22,660
right. Yeah, you know, having, you know, loud banging sounds. You know, I mean, you know,

1914
02:56:22,840 --> 02:56:27,780
obviously airports deal with birds. There's lots of like, uh, uh, things that, you know,

1915
02:56:28,380 --> 02:56:32,780
you could be done, uh, whether or not fish a wildlife will let you. We have to look into the

1916
02:56:32,780 --> 02:56:38,660
full capacity that, but I think putting a owl sculpture is pretty low on that, uh, riskless

1917
02:56:38,660 --> 02:56:42,220
as far as being a permit, but yeah, I think it's worth investigating.

1918
02:56:44,570 --> 02:56:47,510
And I've got bluffed by that buffalo, I still don't forget that.

1919
02:56:47,870 --> 02:56:49,090
Or additional comments.

1920
02:56:52,890 --> 02:56:55,050
I apologize, I did the wrong thing.

1921
02:56:55,470 --> 02:56:57,330
Potions are accepted to follow the show.

1922
02:56:59,710 --> 02:57:00,270
Okay.