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Okay, thank you, please be seated. Okay, this is the

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13th meeting of municipal Council in this session. Going to

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start with Atlanta acknowledgement. We are acknowledged that we are

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gathered today on the traditional lands of the Anastronomab Hodden

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Shoni Lene Paywack in Attawan Drawn Peoples. We honour Respect

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the History Language's Cultures of the Diverse Indigenous people who

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call this territory home. We acknowledge all of the treaties

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are specific to this area. The two Row - Wump

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- Belt Treaty of the Hodenoshoune Confederacy, civil governance chain,

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the Biver Hunting Grounds Treaty of the Hodenoshoni Nanfan Treaty

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of 1701. The McKee Treaty of 1790, the Lennon Township

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Treaty of 1796, the Huron Track Treaty of 1827 with

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the Anishinaabek, and the Dish - With One Spoon Covenant

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Wampum of the Anishabab and Hodenoshone. The three Indigenous nations

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that are neighbours to London are the triple Oz of

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the Thumbs First Nation, Oneida Nation of the Thames, and

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the Monci - Delaware Nation, who all continue to live

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as sovereign nations with individual and unique languages, cultures, and

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customs. The City Atlanta is also committed to making every

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effort to providing alternative formats and communications supports for meetings

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upon Request if you'd like to make a request specific

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to this meeting. You can contact Council Agenda at London.

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ca or 519 - 661 - 2489 extension 2425.

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All right, with that, it brings me great pleasure to

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move to the National Anthem Section of the Agenda. Rachel

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Gender's Boyd is a traditional English singer from a musical

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family who spent her childhood surrounded by the rich tradition

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of the Midlands singing. She grew up performing in Folk

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clubs around Bingham and Derby and has performed with various

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groups at the Schrew - Berry folk festival, Rochester -

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Folk Festival, and Lich Field - Folk Festival. She's been

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in Canada for 12 years, and nowadays can be found

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helping a host of traditional iris helping host a traditional

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Irish session at the Scotts Corner, leading workshops and singing

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sessions as part of the Forest City, how do I

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say this, come haltus. I've never seen that word, that's

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excellent. As well as working with the artistic director for

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the new Forest City Irish Fest. Please rise and join

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me in welcoming Rachel, who will now perform the National

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Anthem Forest.

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Land. True Patriot Love. In. All of us. Coming.

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With glowing. Hearts. We see. The rise. The. True North

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Strong. And. Free. From. Far and. Whiter. Canada. We

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stand on. God. For. God. Keep our. Land.

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Glory. Us and. Free. O. - Canada. We stand on

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God. For. Thee.

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God.

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Okay. Never had a photo bomb of the singer photo,

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but that was interesting. Thanks for doing that. All right.

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We're on to disclosures of pecuniary interest. I'd look to

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see if colleagues have any disclosures for today. Okay, sing

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- none, we'll move to Recognitions. I have none. I

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don't know if colleagues on Council have any. No. Okay,

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seeing none. Review of Confidential Matters would be considered in

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public. There are none. We have Council and Closed Session.

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There are two items on the Agenda. I'll look for

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a motion to move into closed session. Move by Councillor

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Catty, seconded by Councillor McAllister. Any discussion? Okay, we'll open

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that vote.

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Closing the vote. Motion carries 14. 0. Okay, so we'll

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be moving to Committee Room 5, the members of the

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Public can stay here. And finished.

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Okay, please be seated. Okay, that brings us

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on to confirmation and signing of the previous minutes We

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have the minutes from the 12th meeting of Council held

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on July 21st. I look for a mover in a

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seconder for those minutes moved by Councillor Cutty seconded by

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Councillor Rahman Anytime to the minutes. Seeing none will open

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that for voting.

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Councillor Council Pribble. Voting on the. Council of Pearl Bowl.

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Yes. Both verbally noted closing the vote motion carries 15

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- 0. Okay, thank you. We're on to Communications and

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Petitions there are 6. 1 through 6. 5 including addeds

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These all refer to items at various points in the

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agenda There's a consolidated motion to refer all those items

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to the points where we'll be discussing them So I'll

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look for someone who's willing to move that Councillor Plo's

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a second by Councillor Van Meerbergen Any discussion on that.

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Singing none will open that for voting. Farsel votes yes.

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Council Privileg, yes. Noted thank you closing the vote motion

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carries 15 - 0. Right item 7 motions to which

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notice was given we have none which means Ron 2

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item number 8 Reports The First Report will receive is

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the report from the Planning Environment Committee I'll turn it

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over to the chair Councillor Lehmann to present the report

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Thank you Mayor please present the 12th report of the

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planning and environment Committee. Number 11. Requested to be pulled.

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And also item number 7. Councillor Hillier. Yes, thank you

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to the chair If you could also please pull item

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number 10 1047 1055 Junior's Drive so I can rank

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inconsistent. Thank you. Absolutely we can do that separate. So

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far that 710 and 11 Anyone else. Okay Councillor Layman

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I'll eat move a motion. Thank you so I'll move

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items one through 68 and 9. Okay 1 through 6

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8 9 are on the floor I look for any

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discussion on those matters. Go ahead Councillor Trosa. Was I'm

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sorry was 9 deferred or is 9 as it was

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at the committee. 9 is as it was at the

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committee It's part of the group of motions So whatever

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the committee did is what is happening with 9. And

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I was referred at committee so that referral is essentially

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part of the consolidated motions. Okay. Sorry Council Cutty you

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had your hand up to. Thank you chair I'd like

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to thank staff for the work you've done on Khaleeli

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Road We've turned a Country Road into a what's going

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to be a virtual bike path with lots of mobility.

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And it's just an exciting project This has been a

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road that has required attention for many years. When I

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first came to Council Uh, this was an issue that

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my client my constituents had discussed with me And with

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the help of an aid of staff Uh, with our

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mobility team. We've been able to turn this road or

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it will be turned into a really great transit Um,

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for act of transit. For not only for motorists, but

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also for pedestrians and for cyclists So this is an

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exciting project I'm looking for to see and get finished

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next year. And, uh, I appreciate again staff the work

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you've done Thank you. Councillor Hopkins. Yeah, thank you, your

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worship I'd like to make a comment on number 5,

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which is the report of the Community of the ISRE

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Committee on planning I did have a letter attached to

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the advisory Report I know having a development inward 9

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Uh... With a heritage destination and an opportunity of a

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developer taking advantage of... Some... incentives that we offer I

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could see the results of how we can protect some

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of our heritage And as we address a number of

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heritage designations that will be coming to us Uh... I

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am very supportive of... The CAC's request to explore and

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report back on tax and other financial incentives or programs

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I know at planning Uh... The vice chair put forward

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emotion to look at a incentive for just... Heritage Property

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tax relief program Which I'm very supportive But I would

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have... Just like further opportunity for staff to explore more

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opportunities and report back to us So those are my

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comments. Any other comments in the matters before us. Okay,

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sing none will open that for voting.

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Closing the vote Motion carries 15 to 0. Council Lehman.

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Thank you so I'll put 7 on the floor This

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is a small housekeeping amendment Um... So I guess we

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would have to move the amendment Is that correct? Yeah

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So you put the original staff recommendation on the floor

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And then you can move the technical amendment, the staff.

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Um... Okay, so I'll put that before and I'll move

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the amendment. Okay, so the main items on the floor

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Um, Council Layman has moved an amendment Uh... I need

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a seconder for the amendment Councillor Colosa. On the amendment.

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Kept Cine - animal Open that for voting. Yes, Councillor

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Farra. Thanks Mayor 3U Can we just get an update

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on the housekeeping amendment to some of the details on

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that. Sure. Oh I think it's Ms. O'Hagen who will

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update us tonight Um Through your worship So the housekeeping

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amendment is to recognise that the Southwest area Secondary Plan

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has been repealed at the time of the planning Committee

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Um, it was still in for Enforce because the appeal

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period hadn't gone through We didn't receive any appeals to

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the southwest... Area plan, uh... Being repealed So now all

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of the special policies will go directly into the LUD

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plan. Councillor Farrah Okay, thank you for that And just

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follow - up Uh... When did we get that information?

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Go ahead. I'm Through your worship Um... The Peel Period

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ended on August 20th. Council Council. Thank you. Okay. Uh...

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Anyone else on the amendment. Okay, we'll open that for

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voting.

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Closing the vote Motion carries 15 - 0. Uh And

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now The Az - amended motion Council Layman You're willing

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to move I'll move as a second after that Councillor

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Hopkins Anytion on the AS amended motion now. Councillor Hopkins,

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go ahead. So. Yeah, thank you. You worship This is

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a development inward 9 And I want to thank the

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committee Uh... For adding an amendment given that There's a

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potential of seeing up to 9, 000 people living in

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this development To look into future transit through the master

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mobility plan So I want to thank the committee for

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adding that to the Recommendation. Okay Anyone else on the

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ASMIND motion. Seeing none will open that for voting.

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Closing the VOD motion carries 15 to 0. Go ahead

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Councillor So I'll put item number 10 Uh... On the

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floor This was requested to be pulled by Councillor Hillier.

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Okay Uh... So this one's on the floor by the

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chair Any discussion on this? Okay. Seeing none, then we'll

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open that provoting.

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Closing the vote Motion carries 13 - 2. Go ahead

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Council Lehman. Thank you I'd like to put Item number

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11 on the floor This was request to be pulled

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by Councillor Stevenson. Okay This is on the floor I'll

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look for any discussion. Yep, go ahead Council Stevenson. Thank

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you Yes I pulled this one after discussions with the

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developer. The concern is I believe Um... The derogatory

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implications on the developer without us Looking at both sides

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of the situation And what happened So What I wanted

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to know a couple of questions through you to staff

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Um...

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Was this a really unusual situation Where this... kind of...

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Contition was put in place... And if not, could you

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just tell me how this usually goes in terms of

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compliance around the conditions? Mr. Mathers. After your worship So

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there was a direction that committee to add Recommendation to

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approval authority to work with the owner of the Property

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to be able to come up with an accommodation Uh...

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Opportunity So we did that Unfortunately There's no way for

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us to put that into an agreement So that's why

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we don't have a provision to actually require this accommodation

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to happen But we do have of course through our

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normal processes Um... Our run Eviction - related by law

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And that is the main way and usual way How

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we would address the situation like this. So it is

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a bit different Situation Then we usually have... Compared to

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other areas in the city. Council Stevenson. Thank you So

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when we're looking at this motion and what's being requested

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in terms of Uh Report back on the status Whether

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conditions have been satisfied and what authority. Can I just

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ask through you to staff? Um... Like I'm just really

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wondering how worthwhile this is given that There is a...

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The OLT process. And we seem to be like getting

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in there and causing potentially some issues in the process

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in a jurisdiction That isn't ours And so I'm just

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looking through you to staff for some... Your thoughts on

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this motion currently before us... And the concerns of the

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developer that... We're creating some issues potentially in another jurisdictional

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process. Go ahead Mr. Mailers After your worship We're of

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course always happy to bring back information Reports Um... We

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were able to provide the bulk of the information AD

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Committee Just noting that there isn't... For what we can

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do to be able to Enforce this matter. There is

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other bylaws that do cover Um... These types of situations

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that we will ensure that we continue to enforce Um...

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But we can provide that further information But there's not

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a lot of additional DDL will be that I think

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will be helpful for you making a different decision. Okay

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Councillor Stevenson. Uh, thank you Actually... Just that last reference

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to making a decision Like what decision will be... Before

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Council after getting this report? Mr. Maithers Uh... Through your

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worship So that there isn't any action to take at

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this time There was of course Uh... The letter that

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was brought and the delegation Um... Requesting for Council to

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consider this matter But there isn't any tangible action That

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you could take related to a planning matter Because that's

238
00:53:42,814 --> 00:53:45,673
already decided Matter of Council So there were... It would

239
00:53:45,673 --> 00:53:47,513
just be to receive that information and to receive that

240
00:53:47,694 --> 00:53:53,563
report If you... Decided to do so. Council Council Stevenson.

241
00:53:54,061 --> 00:53:56,280
Thank you This is the reason why I've pulled this

242
00:53:56,301 --> 00:53:58,440
and I'm gonna be voting against it Is we're asking

243
00:53:58,541 --> 00:54:01,640
for a report on information that isn't going to lead

244
00:54:01,661 --> 00:54:06,120
to any kind of a decision That is... You know,

245
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,760
we've got written correspondence from the developer saying Um... As

246
00:54:10,781 --> 00:54:14,280
outline in the attached letter My actions were publicly misrepresented

247
00:54:14,701 --> 00:54:19,400
before the planning and environment Committee Without anyone First Contacting

248
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:23,760
me from my position... Or requesting the supporting documentation. I

249
00:54:23,981 --> 00:54:29,480
consider it fundamentally unfair and unreasonable For conclusions about my

250
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,080
conduct to be stated publicly without giving the affected party

251
00:54:33,181 --> 00:54:38,120
any opportunity to respond Particularly where the documentary record contradicts

252
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,280
the assertion that replacement units were never offered Elected officials

253
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,360
should exercise appropriate care before making factual statements that can

254
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:52,014
affect an individual's reputation. This is the uh... The Communication

255
00:54:52,035 --> 00:54:54,814
on the public record from the developer We're hearing from

256
00:54:55,075 --> 00:54:57,694
staff that asking for this report isn't going to do

257
00:54:57,734 --> 00:55:02,118
anything at all. It's... We could... Like I don't want

258
00:55:02,118 --> 00:55:05,238
to go into legal session or anything to know How

259
00:55:05,499 --> 00:55:10,678
Council might be implicated in the misrepresentations and the injurious

260
00:55:11,579 --> 00:55:19,272
Reputational harm here. Point a point of order Now she's

261
00:55:19,373 --> 00:55:21,912
clearly making legal conclusions here that she's not in a

262
00:55:21,912 --> 00:55:25,693
position Council. A point of order would be on Procedural

263
00:55:25,733 --> 00:55:30,571
order. It's not on rebutting Uh... The statements the Councillor

264
00:55:31,232 --> 00:55:34,411
is making She's not... She's not a lawyer She's not

265
00:55:34,411 --> 00:55:37,131
providing legal advice It's not our solicitor She's making comments

266
00:55:37,312 --> 00:55:39,451
on a matter before us You're more than welcome to

267
00:55:39,952 --> 00:55:42,971
debate those comments and refute them in your own course

268
00:55:42,992 --> 00:55:45,771
in time But I have to let the Councillor continue

269
00:55:45,811 --> 00:55:48,571
with her Discussion There's no point of order related to

270
00:55:48,592 --> 00:55:51,691
the content of the Councillors Unless it's a point of

271
00:55:51,731 --> 00:55:54,171
personal privilege Which I don't think the Council is moving

272
00:55:54,192 --> 00:55:58,617
into She's providing her opinion here. Thank you and I

273
00:55:58,638 --> 00:56:01,737
wasn't implying any legal knowledge on my behalf I just

274
00:56:01,737 --> 00:56:03,977
said to me this doesn't even warrant going in to

275
00:56:04,017 --> 00:56:07,017
find out whether the legal implications I don't see why

276
00:56:07,038 --> 00:56:10,697
we would support emotion and take time Uh... For staff

277
00:56:11,038 --> 00:56:14,017
to prepare a report on something that isn't going to

278
00:56:14,017 --> 00:56:15,737
lead to any kind of decision isn't going to do

279
00:56:15,777 --> 00:56:19,417
anything and has been You know fairly clearly objected to

280
00:56:20,078 --> 00:56:25,417
by the developer in question here So I will not

281
00:56:25,417 --> 00:56:30,428
be supporting this. And I would encourage Council as well

282
00:56:30,609 --> 00:56:32,748
not to support it Because I'm not sure what we're

283
00:56:32,748 --> 00:56:35,068
doing here other than You know looking like we're doing

284
00:56:35,089 --> 00:56:38,908
something And there are always two parties And that's the

285
00:56:38,948 --> 00:56:40,908
thing I think we have to be careful when we

286
00:56:40,908 --> 00:56:44,988
take one side or the other without having Uh... Considered...

287
00:56:45,249 --> 00:56:48,188
Both parties and given them an opportunity to speak and

288
00:56:48,228 --> 00:56:54,905
be represented Um... I also... Have other concerns around. Some

289
00:56:54,905 --> 00:57:00,081
of this But I'm going to leave it for. Offline

290
00:57:00,342 --> 00:57:06,462
In terms of future... Future ways of handling this. And

291
00:57:07,043 --> 00:57:11,742
maybe understanding the implications that we might be causing Uh...

292
00:57:12,083 --> 00:57:19,400
Either party in terms of OLT Um. LTB matters. 30

293
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:27,671
seconds. I guess You know we all want more housing

294
00:57:27,772 --> 00:57:30,311
options in this city And we're also looking to protect

295
00:57:31,292 --> 00:57:33,351
existing tenants And I think that's a good thing But

296
00:57:33,351 --> 00:57:34,951
I think we have to be careful about how this

297
00:57:35,052 --> 00:57:37,511
is done And when things are brought forward in this

298
00:57:37,612 --> 00:57:41,991
manner Uh... The implications and the way other parties are

299
00:57:42,172 --> 00:57:45,111
affected So I'm just going to leave it there And

300
00:57:45,111 --> 00:57:48,757
just say that I won't be supporting this. Okay Any

301
00:57:48,797 --> 00:57:57,339
other speakers to this. Go ahead Councillor Trossa. We often

302
00:57:57,339 --> 00:57:59,099
We often find her through the chair We often find

303
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:03,179
ourselves in a situation where This jurisdiction is operating under

304
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:07,073
a variety of different provincial laws. And sometimes they can

305
00:58:07,073 --> 00:58:09,633
flick with each other Sometimes there are boundaries that are

306
00:58:09,673 --> 00:58:13,793
not clear Sometimes Uh, maybe a better job could be

307
00:58:13,833 --> 00:58:17,953
done by the provincial government in terms of legislating A

308
00:58:17,993 --> 00:58:22,273
harmonious Relationship between these different policy pieces But I think

309
00:58:22,934 --> 00:58:26,193
this suggests that the Council is not in a position

310
00:58:26,774 --> 00:58:30,314
to try to find some kind of harmony. Between different

311
00:58:30,335 --> 00:58:33,434
pieces of legislation And actually to try to do that

312
00:58:34,255 --> 00:58:38,634
Constitute some type of meddling into a place that we

313
00:58:38,735 --> 00:58:42,475
don't belong. Yes, there might be implications if we do

314
00:58:42,496 --> 00:58:46,795
something here But then again There might be implications If

315
00:58:46,835 --> 00:58:50,395
we don't do something here And I'm real clear that

316
00:58:50,435 --> 00:58:54,795
the implications for not doing anything here are tenets are

317
00:58:54,835 --> 00:58:58,809
going to suffer potential prejudice. And I'm not I'm not

318
00:58:58,849 --> 00:59:02,649
litigating that question right now And I'm not issuing an

319
00:59:02,689 --> 00:59:04,569
opinion on how a court would deal with deal with

320
00:59:04,609 --> 00:59:06,969
this But I think that we are under an obligation.

321
00:59:07,871 --> 00:59:10,410
To try to do as much information seeking as we

322
00:59:10,410 --> 00:59:12,730
can And the fact that something arises under the planning

323
00:59:12,751 --> 00:59:17,290
Act doesn't mean we can't take into account a whole

324
00:59:17,330 --> 00:59:22,758
variety. Of other public policies That we're bound to observe

325
00:59:23,019 --> 00:59:29,558
So I welcome this resolution I probably would have drafted

326
00:59:29,819 --> 00:59:33,958
a little stronger But this is fine This is good

327
00:59:34,059 --> 00:59:36,358
And I think that the information that comes back to

328
00:59:36,398 --> 00:59:41,238
us Will be useful for us to set a course

329
00:59:41,579 --> 00:59:45,382
And ask the question What next. What can this Council

330
00:59:45,422 --> 00:59:49,222
be doing in order to avoid these types of conflicts

331
00:59:49,262 --> 00:59:53,302
between different Um, different parts of our Of our laws?

332
00:59:53,302 --> 00:59:55,702
So I think this is a very important exercise And

333
00:59:55,742 --> 00:59:57,462
to say that this is just going to lead This

334
00:59:57,462 --> 00:59:59,502
is just a road to nothing That is going to

335
00:59:59,502 --> 01:00:02,102
lead to us not being able to do anything We

336
01:00:02,203 --> 01:00:06,011
can always amend our bylaws. We can always amend the

337
01:00:06,272 --> 01:00:09,931
bylaws that are within the City of London's jurisdiction Which

338
01:00:10,112 --> 01:00:15,409
by the way is very broad. It's very bright. And

339
01:00:15,430 --> 01:00:19,089
we've stepped into in many other cities have stepped into

340
01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:25,009
the jurisdiction Of looking at What rights tenants might have.

341
01:00:25,009 --> 01:00:28,129
Uh.... With respect to their units in situations where the

342
01:00:28,230 --> 01:00:32,929
owner decides to exercise remedies under the Provincial landlord Tenant

343
01:00:32,969 --> 01:00:37,649
Law... And this is a good development It's shows that

344
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:43,788
our relationship between the province. And cities is developing. And

345
01:00:43,889 --> 01:00:46,668
is not rigid and stale So this is exactly the

346
01:00:46,689 --> 01:00:50,108
kind of motion that we should be Um... Using to

347
01:00:50,108 --> 01:00:52,748
get ourselves some more information If for no other reason

348
01:00:53,489 --> 01:00:55,788
To help inform our future policy - making So I

349
01:00:55,828 --> 01:00:58,908
will be supporting this motion And I thank the Councillor

350
01:00:58,908 --> 01:01:01,788
for bringing it And I think I think the objections

351
01:01:01,809 --> 01:01:04,428
to it are not well taken So thank you very

352
01:01:04,468 --> 01:01:07,741
much. And any other speakers to this matter Councillor Frank

353
01:01:07,762 --> 01:01:12,336
Go ahead. Thank you Yes And I just wanted to

354
01:01:12,336 --> 01:01:14,736
speak to the rationales to why the letter was submitted

355
01:01:15,317 --> 01:01:17,696
Uh And the main reason I'm bringing this Ford is

356
01:01:17,736 --> 01:01:19,856
to gain a greater understanding of if there are other

357
01:01:19,896 --> 01:01:22,496
legal implications in regards to the commitments that were made

358
01:01:22,917 --> 01:01:25,376
And not specifically in regards to the planning matters As

359
01:01:25,376 --> 01:01:27,376
we've already heard from planning staff That there is not

360
01:01:27,376 --> 01:01:28,976
a lot that they can do through the site plan

361
01:01:29,016 --> 01:01:32,176
authority Um, for example Some of the information I'd be

362
01:01:32,176 --> 01:01:34,416
interested in is if there's any recourse for the city

363
01:01:34,917 --> 01:01:37,776
Um, be given any kind of incomplete or false information

364
01:01:38,277 --> 01:01:41,616
that influences Project Summons in the same way We have

365
01:01:41,616 --> 01:01:44,096
a list of businesses that we won't procure from if

366
01:01:44,117 --> 01:01:46,896
they violate contracts Is there something similar for developers who

367
01:01:46,997 --> 01:01:48,976
do not make commitments This is the kind of information

368
01:01:49,157 --> 01:01:51,376
that I would like to understand and know more of

369
01:01:52,277 --> 01:01:55,696
And in addition to the Comments made earlier about claims

370
01:01:55,717 --> 01:01:58,416
made by the developer I've repeatedly asked for additional information

371
01:01:58,677 --> 01:02:01,056
from the developer That proves the claims that they're making

372
01:02:01,317 --> 01:02:04,336
included in the letter Um... I've never seen them They're

373
01:02:04,336 --> 01:02:07,216
never sent to me Despite being asked repeatedly And if

374
01:02:07,237 --> 01:02:09,696
there are documents I don't know if anyone has seen

375
01:02:09,736 --> 01:02:12,256
them Um... I'd be interested in those And I do

376
01:02:12,277 --> 01:02:14,896
want to read an excerpt Um... From the submission that

377
01:02:14,936 --> 01:02:18,336
we had from the Tenance Legal Retion In regards to

378
01:02:18,437 --> 01:02:22,576
the accommodation And so ultimately at the tribunal They acknowledge

379
01:02:22,677 --> 01:02:26,176
two letters from the contractor from the Landlord's Contractor Both

380
01:02:26,216 --> 01:02:29,616
indicating temporary units cannot be safely serviced or occupied due

381
01:02:29,616 --> 01:02:33,536
to construction difficulties over winter Noting that they anticipated Completing

382
01:02:33,536 --> 01:02:35,616
the work by the end of the month Uh... That

383
01:02:35,797 --> 01:02:38,496
said The letters were corroborated by the author and the

384
01:02:38,536 --> 01:02:41,536
Landlord's Contractor by way of background The tenants were offered

385
01:02:42,037 --> 01:02:44,496
Who were offered a temporary unit An off - road

386
01:02:44,536 --> 01:02:46,656
that went out to two of five units who were

387
01:02:46,656 --> 01:02:49,296
remaining at the time Had submitted pictures of the unit's

388
01:02:49,296 --> 01:02:52,764
proposed for relocation showing the units to be uninhabitable. This

389
01:02:52,804 --> 01:02:55,724
was backed up at the landlord's witness Uh... By the

390
01:02:55,724 --> 01:02:59,244
landlord's witness at the April 9th hearing Also notable The

391
01:02:59,284 --> 01:03:01,484
two notices of temporary units that went outstated that the

392
01:03:01,505 --> 01:03:03,884
tenants would have access to those units effective in February

393
01:03:04,385 --> 01:03:06,684
Which was confirmed at the April 9th hearing to be

394
01:03:06,724 --> 01:03:09,720
not true. So there are, you know As we heard

395
01:03:09,981 --> 01:03:12,440
some various opinions on this matter Um... But I think

396
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,760
that's an example of why we would get some information

397
01:03:14,861 --> 01:03:17,640
from staff to be able to make informed decisions moving

398
01:03:17,661 --> 01:03:20,280
forward and have a great understanding of what our limitations

399
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,680
are And I also think it's a great example as

400
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,720
to why we desperately need a tenant relocation assistance Program

401
01:03:26,381 --> 01:03:30,280
that would require temporary accommodations and that would legally bind

402
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:33,160
the developers to something And again I think that this

403
01:03:33,261 --> 01:03:36,840
information would provide that context for Councillors and the future

404
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,960
Council moving forward So I seek your support in getting

405
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:47,576
that information back. Any other speakers to this matter. Council

406
01:03:47,597 --> 01:03:50,376
your times actually up Not speaking Just saying I'd like

407
01:03:50,376 --> 01:03:54,136
to vote on C separatelys It's the non - address

408
01:03:54,237 --> 01:03:57,336
specific one I'll support that one But not the address

409
01:03:57,437 --> 01:03:59,496
specific one Sure We can we can divide it with

410
01:03:59,517 --> 01:03:59,736
motion.

411
01:04:21,937 --> 01:04:24,476
Uh I apologise I'll take that back They're all address

412
01:04:24,577 --> 01:04:29,808
specific So I'm going to vote note everything. Makes it

413
01:04:29,829 --> 01:04:31,968
actually a little bit easier We don't have to recraft

414
01:04:31,989 --> 01:04:34,289
the motion. So I look for other speakers though before

415
01:04:34,289 --> 01:04:37,988
we move to that Council for our go ahead. Thanks

416
01:04:38,028 --> 01:04:39,348
Mayor I don't have too much to add I just

417
01:04:39,388 --> 01:04:42,388
wanted to say to the questions Um first I appreciate

418
01:04:42,409 --> 01:04:45,028
the motion come from the Councillor I appreciate the comments

419
01:04:45,068 --> 01:04:46,868
that were made But the question to what are we

420
01:04:46,868 --> 01:04:51,028
doing here? We are bringing some form of accountability to

421
01:04:51,068 --> 01:04:54,948
developers with a specific case study That shows that this

422
01:04:55,049 --> 01:04:58,708
is needed Um, is it worthwhile? Yes It's worthwhile You

423
01:04:58,708 --> 01:05:01,108
know if we can save at least one person to

424
01:05:01,129 --> 01:05:04,868
be staying within their home That is worthwhile If we

425
01:05:04,868 --> 01:05:07,588
can save 100 That is worthwhile We have a big

426
01:05:07,849 --> 01:05:09,988
crisis here when it comes to homelessness We have a

427
01:05:10,089 --> 01:05:11,908
big crisis here when it comes to people at risk

428
01:05:12,249 --> 01:05:14,548
of becoming homelessness This is not something that we should

429
01:05:14,548 --> 01:05:16,628
be looking at in isolation This is something that spreads

430
01:05:16,729 --> 01:05:19,968
across Um... A lot of different service areas A lot

431
01:05:19,968 --> 01:05:21,508
of different actions that Council is doing We should look

432
01:05:21,508 --> 01:05:23,748
at that in a holistic way We should look at

433
01:05:23,788 --> 01:05:28,148
this in something that it involves our homelessness response It

434
01:05:28,148 --> 01:05:30,868
involves our preemptively Seeing if we can keep people in

435
01:05:30,868 --> 01:05:34,468
their home This is a motion That is basically a

436
01:05:34,468 --> 01:05:36,308
case study that tells us that we should be looking

437
01:05:36,329 --> 01:05:40,628
at more preemptive actions when it comes to mitigating individuals

438
01:05:40,668 --> 01:05:43,828
who are at risk of losing their housing So I'm

439
01:05:44,009 --> 01:05:46,388
going to be full supportive of this I totally agree

440
01:05:46,489 --> 01:05:49,988
with Councillor Frank's Um direction when it comes to replacement

441
01:05:50,249 --> 01:05:52,788
When it comes to relocation When it comes to assistance

442
01:05:53,289 --> 01:05:55,068
for moving If we have to have some kind of

443
01:05:55,289 --> 01:05:58,228
repairs or renovations I totally support that So I think

444
01:05:58,228 --> 01:06:00,788
that's really where we need to start looking at We

445
01:06:00,788 --> 01:06:03,428
need to start looking at preemptive movements of what we

446
01:06:03,449 --> 01:06:05,988
can do to preempt individuals who are at risk of

447
01:06:06,028 --> 01:06:08,468
becoming homeless and to keep people in their homes So

448
01:06:08,508 --> 01:06:10,308
I'm going to fully support this And I think Council

449
01:06:10,308 --> 01:06:16,001
should fully support this as well. Any other speakers. Okay

450
01:06:16,342 --> 01:06:18,561
then it's the full motion before us And we're going

451
01:06:18,561 --> 01:06:19,201
to open that for voting.

452
01:06:29,966 --> 01:06:33,004
Close in the vote motion carries 13 to 2. Council

453
01:06:33,025 --> 01:06:36,101
Lehman. Thank you Mayor that completes 12th reporter of the

454
01:06:36,101 --> 01:06:41,405
Planning Environment Committee. Okay we're on to the 12th report

455
01:06:41,405 --> 01:06:43,725
of Community Texas Services Committee I'll turn it over to

456
01:06:43,826 --> 01:06:48,291
Chair Ramen to present that report. Thank you and through

457
01:06:48,291 --> 01:06:50,131
you I'd like to present the 12th Report of the

458
01:06:50,131 --> 01:06:53,091
Community and Protective Services Committee I've been asked to pull

459
01:06:53,272 --> 01:06:56,611
items 3 and 4 And I'll just look around the

460
01:06:56,611 --> 01:06:59,731
room See if the pull Okay 3 and 4 separate

461
01:07:00,472 --> 01:07:10,168
Anything else. Okay now you go ahead. Thank you I'll

462
01:07:10,168 --> 01:07:14,337
put on the floor items 1, 25 and 6. Okay

463
01:07:14,998 --> 01:07:16,897
1, 2, 5 and 6 are on the floor Any

464
01:07:16,918 --> 01:07:19,771
discussion on those matters Go ahead to Council Approval. Thank

465
01:07:19,811 --> 01:07:22,571
you Mayor And through you to the staff I have

466
01:07:22,571 --> 01:07:25,211
a question regarding the 4. 1 from the committee or

467
01:07:25,312 --> 01:07:27,851
6 on the agenda today I know we're talking about

468
01:07:28,432 --> 01:07:31,191
coming back Future to the Committee Uh... And I was

469
01:07:31,232 --> 01:07:34,491
just wondering which one in September are replanting to receive

470
01:07:34,592 --> 01:07:38,688
it back Thank you Mr. Dickens Go ahead. Uh Thank

471
01:07:38,688 --> 01:07:41,088
you your worshipping through you Uh we will be coming

472
01:07:41,128 --> 01:07:44,288
to the second CAPS meeting in September Uh, we wanted

473
01:07:44,288 --> 01:07:47,248
to see how Council as a whole voted on this

474
01:07:47,749 --> 01:07:50,848
item Today noting that the deadline for the first caps

475
01:07:51,109 --> 01:07:53,408
Uh... Meeting to submit our reports would be this week

476
01:07:53,749 --> 01:07:55,808
to the clerk's office We'll be aiming for the second

477
01:07:56,549 --> 01:08:00,467
CAPS in September. Council Priviley Thank you Mayor No more

478
01:08:00,507 --> 01:08:03,967
questions Thank you. Okay Any other questions in the matters

479
01:08:04,007 --> 01:08:09,013
before us. Okay Nunn will open that promoting.

480
01:08:23,677 --> 01:08:28,528
Close in vote motion carries 15 to 0. Council Ramen

481
01:08:28,549 --> 01:08:30,688
Thank you I'll put item 3 2. 2 on the

482
01:08:30,688 --> 01:08:35,531
floor The proposed winter response for 2627. Okay that's on

483
01:08:35,531 --> 01:08:41,514
the floor I look for speakers and discussion. Alright Go

484
01:08:41,514 --> 01:08:50,209
ahead Councillor Stevenson. Thank you just clarifying procedure I have

485
01:08:50,209 --> 01:08:52,929
an amendment But I have some questions that might add

486
01:08:52,950 --> 01:08:55,329
to this amendment So can I ask those or do

487
01:08:55,329 --> 01:08:55,969
I have to do it right away.

488
01:09:35,725 --> 01:09:38,744
So as you're speaking now It's going to count towards

489
01:09:39,725 --> 01:09:42,424
your time on the main motion Uh... If at the

490
01:09:42,424 --> 01:09:44,664
point that you move an amendment What you would need

491
01:09:44,664 --> 01:09:48,264
to do during your first time for speaking Uh you

492
01:09:48,264 --> 01:09:50,264
could move the amendment if it's seconded That would be

493
01:09:50,285 --> 01:09:52,584
a new motion You could speak to the amendment at

494
01:09:52,584 --> 01:09:56,629
that point So the answer is yes. Okay perfect Thank

495
01:09:56,669 --> 01:09:59,429
you So through you Uh to staff I just want

496
01:09:59,429 --> 01:10:02,389
to follow up on a question that I have been

497
01:10:02,490 --> 01:10:06,949
asking about and that is the 30 spaces at 696

498
01:10:07,210 --> 01:10:10,309
Dundest Street operated by ARC AD that are part of

499
01:10:10,349 --> 01:10:14,355
this proposed winter response. I'm still trying to understand how

500
01:10:14,456 --> 01:10:18,195
this has come forward as a staff recommendation with the

501
01:10:20,056 --> 01:10:23,235
Alder Council Proved policy that there won't be resting spaces

502
01:10:23,256 --> 01:10:24,995
on the Mai Street of a B. I. A.

503
01:10:39,579 --> 01:10:42,918
Mr. Dickens Uh thank you And through you your worship

504
01:10:43,179 --> 01:10:46,998
Um yes that is That is the case or had

505
01:10:47,038 --> 01:10:49,558
been the case Uh... We've gone back through to look

506
01:10:49,558 --> 01:10:52,998
at Uh, some extensive digging on various Council resolution resolutions

507
01:10:53,339 --> 01:10:55,078
and Council directions And there was a point in time

508
01:10:55,819 --> 01:10:58,918
where Council actually voted to suspend that requirement Uh... They

509
01:10:58,939 --> 01:11:02,918
did set a date of April 30th There were... A

510
01:11:02,918 --> 01:11:06,098
meeting held in February of 2026 Uh... Where it was

511
01:11:06,098 --> 01:11:11,238
discussed Um... That there would be changes made and that...

512
01:11:11,499 --> 01:11:14,678
Oversight or that provision B... Be eliminated for the winter

513
01:11:15,259 --> 01:11:18,878
Um... So what you... Have also directed staff to do

514
01:11:19,419 --> 01:11:23,158
was to go out and... Engage with the community to

515
01:11:23,158 --> 01:11:26,038
find as many spaces Uh... As needed to go out

516
01:11:26,059 --> 01:11:30,518
in canvas Uh... What was available... Uh... For those winter

517
01:11:30,518 --> 01:11:34,118
months Uh... So we came back Uh... With what the

518
01:11:34,139 --> 01:11:37,078
Community has offered and what they proposed that they can

519
01:11:37,179 --> 01:11:40,918
deliver So before Council would be a decision of endorsing

520
01:11:41,019 --> 01:11:45,958
or supporting Uh... Those spaces Which would mean therefore supporting

521
01:11:46,139 --> 01:11:50,118
the location in which they are provided Uh, what kind

522
01:11:50,118 --> 01:11:53,238
of muddies this in throughout is that Council supported a

523
01:11:53,339 --> 01:11:56,918
two - year winter response plan Uh... With that... Uh...

524
01:11:56,918 --> 01:12:00,518
Provision that they could exist and then modified it throughout

525
01:12:00,779 --> 01:12:04,278
and sent us to do a different approach in year

526
01:12:04,299 --> 01:12:07,558
two of the two - year approved plan So all

527
01:12:07,598 --> 01:12:10,598
of that to say Uh... We are before you with

528
01:12:10,619 --> 01:12:13,318
Here's what the community said they could offer you for

529
01:12:13,318 --> 01:12:15,878
the winter Uh... And these are the locations in which

530
01:12:15,979 --> 01:12:18,678
they can be provided Should Council wish to have those

531
01:12:18,779 --> 01:12:21,798
locations You would in fact be endorsing that they're permitted

532
01:12:21,838 --> 01:12:27,532
to be there. Councillor Stevenson Thank you not to belabor

533
01:12:27,532 --> 01:12:30,252
this But I have sent emails about this since the

534
01:12:30,252 --> 01:12:35,772
beginning That committee meeting where we waive that requirement until

535
01:12:35,953 --> 01:12:38,812
April 30th was done by Committee and Council That was

536
01:12:38,812 --> 01:12:42,172
us I had a motion brought forward with Counselor's Frank

537
01:12:42,913 --> 01:12:46,812
Trosso Uh... Ferreira regarding the immediate need that we were

538
01:12:46,833 --> 01:12:51,772
in in that winter And I agreed to waive the

539
01:12:51,793 --> 01:12:56,232
provision and Committee and Council obviously supported But it was

540
01:12:56,232 --> 01:13:00,012
me that had pushed It's my B. I. A. Main

541
01:13:00,012 --> 01:13:04,172
Street award where the oversaturation continues to occur three and

542
01:13:04,172 --> 01:13:06,332
a half years later Ten years later However long this

543
01:13:06,372 --> 01:13:10,530
has been going on. So I understand that Council can

544
01:13:10,871 --> 01:13:14,210
override their own policies But what brought was brought forward

545
01:13:14,231 --> 01:13:19,592
by staff. Seem to not take into account the policy

546
01:13:19,613 --> 01:13:22,392
that had been passed by this Council so that they

547
01:13:22,392 --> 01:13:23,872
wouldn't be on the main street of a B. I.

548
01:13:23,872 --> 01:13:27,192
A. And the First Communication that I got back said

549
01:13:27,232 --> 01:13:29,992
that staff were going to be looking at the clerk

550
01:13:30,032 --> 01:13:31,592
working with the clerk to see if there was going

551
01:13:31,592 --> 01:13:35,592
to be some kind of motion required to make this

552
01:13:35,632 --> 01:13:40,392
go through And I spoke with senior leadership yesterday as

553
01:13:40,392 --> 01:13:43,112
well to follow up on how did this come forward

554
01:13:43,293 --> 01:13:47,512
from staff because my understanding throughout this term account has

555
01:13:47,512 --> 01:13:50,472
been that staff have to operate under the Council policies

556
01:13:50,573 --> 01:13:54,716
but Council can make different changes. So what I'm hearing

557
01:13:54,817 --> 01:13:56,716
right now, and I just want to confirm is that

558
01:13:56,977 --> 01:13:59,836
we don't need to acknowledge the way we did in

559
01:13:59,876 --> 01:14:02,956
February that notwithstanding the Because I believe that was the

560
01:14:03,137 --> 01:14:07,116
motion notwithstanding the current policies we made an exception until

561
01:14:07,217 --> 01:14:10,956
April 2026 under the assumption that we were all still

562
01:14:11,057 --> 01:14:15,036
committed to moving forward with addressing the oversaturation issues and

563
01:14:15,137 --> 01:14:17,516
that in the immediate emergency We were going to allow

564
01:14:17,537 --> 01:14:20,876
it, but hoping that something better trusting that there were

565
01:14:20,876 --> 01:14:26,156
other options for the city than one particular street. Within

566
01:14:26,156 --> 01:14:29,756
a few block radius So I just want to confirm

567
01:14:29,777 --> 01:14:33,596
that the last motion was and notwithstanding the policy and

568
01:14:33,697 --> 01:14:35,836
I'm still and I would like an answer as to

569
01:14:36,017 --> 01:14:39,765
how this gets brought forward to this right now. Uh,

570
01:14:40,186 --> 01:14:43,045
acting as though we didn't have that policy that Council

571
01:14:43,085 --> 01:14:44,885
has said not on the mean street of a B.

572
01:14:44,885 --> 01:14:50,867
I. A. Thank you through you and I appreciate the

573
01:14:50,907 --> 01:14:52,867
question being asked I think it's probably fair to say

574
01:14:52,907 --> 01:14:55,827
that a staff we bring forth advice to Council and

575
01:14:55,928 --> 01:14:59,347
as Mr. Dick Contest said we have brought forward a

576
01:14:59,368 --> 01:15:03,027
suggestion that this be considered We absolutely appreciate that Council

577
01:15:03,027 --> 01:15:05,587
made a different decision before it doesn't mean that we

578
01:15:05,587 --> 01:15:07,427
don't have an opportunity to come back to you and

579
01:15:07,427 --> 01:15:09,587
say we're in a housing crisis We have an issue

580
01:15:09,627 --> 01:15:12,787
for the winter We have a provider who's willing to

581
01:15:12,787 --> 01:15:15,347
do this if it is Council's direction we didn't want

582
01:15:15,347 --> 01:15:18,307
to eliminate or not provide to you all of the

583
01:15:18,408 --> 01:15:22,001
information on this issue. We acknowledge that Council has a

584
01:15:22,041 --> 01:15:25,281
different decision It doesn't keep us though from asking you

585
01:15:25,321 --> 01:15:28,881
to reconsider that decision It's not to change your decision

586
01:15:28,902 --> 01:15:31,281
It's just to ask you to reconsider it and that's

587
01:15:31,281 --> 01:15:33,761
why it's being brought back to you today If the

588
01:15:33,782 --> 01:15:35,841
choices to go a different way We're happy to take

589
01:15:35,881 --> 01:15:42,535
that and go back with the existing policy. Councillor Stevenson

590
01:15:42,876 --> 01:15:44,855
Thank you so then through the clerk do we not

591
01:15:44,895 --> 01:15:48,215
need something in there that says notwithstanding the current policy

592
01:15:48,316 --> 01:15:51,575
We're making another exception like are we I was just

593
01:15:51,575 --> 01:15:54,615
surprised that that wasn't in the report asking for Council's

594
01:15:54,636 --> 01:15:57,964
reconsideration. Give me one second on that.

595
01:17:12,770 --> 01:17:15,869
Okay I'm gonna just try to give an answer and

596
01:17:15,869 --> 01:17:17,309
then I might have to go to staff or the

597
01:17:17,309 --> 01:17:23,229
clerks again So If I understand correctly What I've heard

598
01:17:23,229 --> 01:17:27,069
is the previous decision of Council about Uh not on

599
01:17:27,069 --> 01:17:29,309
the Main Street of a B. I. A. is suspended

600
01:17:29,349 --> 01:17:32,029
as part of a two year winter response Program Uh...

601
01:17:32,290 --> 01:17:36,349
Council makes an adjustment halfway through that two years That

602
01:17:36,349 --> 01:17:38,109
had a notwithstanding attached to it But Council makes an

603
01:17:38,149 --> 01:17:41,229
adjustment between halfway through the two years to say Um,

604
01:17:41,330 --> 01:17:43,229
bring us some other options We want to look at

605
01:17:43,229 --> 01:17:45,949
this staff brings back a report You know I guess

606
01:17:46,050 --> 01:17:49,469
it depends on if staff feel it's substantially different from

607
01:17:49,970 --> 01:17:55,069
the previous winter response Uh, and would require an updated

608
01:17:55,330 --> 01:17:58,989
notwithstanding or whether or whether it can just stand with

609
01:17:59,029 --> 01:18:01,709
the previous one Regardless it's been more than 12 months

610
01:18:01,890 --> 01:18:04,909
in Council can essentially decide Uh to proceed at this

611
01:18:04,909 --> 01:18:08,829
point in time Um, but I'd have to go to

612
01:18:08,829 --> 01:18:11,949
staff on the whole piece about You know which way

613
01:18:11,989 --> 01:18:13,789
you went and why it went that way on it.

614
01:18:17,058 --> 01:18:19,597
Thank you and for your worship when we initially brought

615
01:18:19,778 --> 01:18:22,077
the winter response It was a two - year response

616
01:18:22,098 --> 01:18:25,197
It was funded for two years Uh, earlier this spring

617
01:18:25,458 --> 01:18:27,917
you asked us to come back with an enhanced response

618
01:18:28,338 --> 01:18:32,477
more beds Uh... In particular looking at tier three and

619
01:18:32,477 --> 01:18:35,197
that's what we did Uh, we came back because we

620
01:18:35,197 --> 01:18:37,917
didn't have sufficient beds We came back with a proposal

621
01:18:38,658 --> 01:18:42,157
Because we knew opening a community centre again was not

622
01:18:42,197 --> 01:18:45,437
the right decision in tier three So we knew we

623
01:18:45,538 --> 01:18:47,197
had to look for bed So we went out to

624
01:18:47,237 --> 01:18:50,797
our community to look for where the options Where can

625
01:18:50,797 --> 01:18:54,237
we have beds enhancing our current winter response that we

626
01:18:54,578 --> 01:18:59,437
brought forward with you for 2526 and 2627 So we

627
01:18:59,458 --> 01:19:04,157
brought forward an enhanced the original response by enhancing tier

628
01:19:04,197 --> 01:19:08,397
3 and by seeking additional funds and the most important

629
01:19:08,738 --> 01:19:11,357
change is that you asked us to look at Um,

630
01:19:11,458 --> 01:19:13,997
do we look at the minus 15 threshold or do

631
01:19:13,997 --> 01:19:16,797
we look at opening our doors 24 - 7 from

632
01:19:17,138 --> 01:19:20,397
December to March 31st So those are the change recommended

633
01:19:20,418 --> 01:19:24,557
changes based on Community and based on our evaluation and

634
01:19:24,597 --> 01:19:28,077
learnings from the initial First year of the winter response

635
01:19:28,098 --> 01:19:30,957
and that's what we brought forward for Council to make

636
01:19:30,997 --> 01:19:36,493
decision on. Okay Councillor Stevenson Thank you I just say

637
01:19:36,493 --> 01:19:38,653
to my colleagues I've been working on this since committee

638
01:19:39,074 --> 01:19:40,893
So this isn't like a last minute thing that I'm

639
01:19:40,893 --> 01:19:45,276
doing here today. The two - year winter response did

640
01:19:45,276 --> 01:19:49,116
not include the spaces on at 696 10DAS Street That

641
01:19:49,116 --> 01:19:52,156
was something that we as councillors brought forward as an

642
01:19:52,156 --> 01:19:57,116
emergency response that ended April 2026 Uh, that said notwithstanding

643
01:19:57,217 --> 01:20:04,302
our current policy So. Um I find this very frustrating

644
01:20:04,723 --> 01:20:08,302
I'll admit that That it's like this I find it

645
01:20:08,342 --> 01:20:12,230
really frustrating. Um I'm going to and that's why I

646
01:20:12,251 --> 01:20:13,830
wasn't sure what else I was going to add onto

647
01:20:14,011 --> 01:20:15,750
this amendment So I do have an amendment that I'm

648
01:20:15,851 --> 01:20:17,350
going to move And I am going to add one

649
01:20:17,390 --> 01:20:18,150
more section.

650
01:20:29,625 --> 01:20:39,158
I'll read out the one that's been circulated. Yeah If

651
01:20:39,198 --> 01:20:41,078
that's one you're moving you can read it out But

652
01:20:41,078 --> 01:20:42,918
if you're adding something to it You can read it

653
01:20:42,958 --> 01:20:46,551
all out together. I'm still making it up my head

654
01:20:46,572 --> 01:20:49,191
here because we're on the fly I assumed that this

655
01:20:49,231 --> 01:20:52,631
was drafted by staff already I've followed up as early

656
01:20:52,631 --> 01:20:58,231
as yesterday So The answer to my colleague who's speaking

657
01:20:58,271 --> 01:21:00,391
to me beside me is the answer staff would draft

658
01:21:00,431 --> 01:21:03,911
it is because Uh that there should be a requirement

659
01:21:04,252 --> 01:21:07,311
to move something that Council had already I'm going to

660
01:21:07,311 --> 01:21:09,191
say you don't have to respond to your colleague beside

661
01:21:09,191 --> 01:21:10,871
you your colleague beside you should not be talking to

662
01:21:10,871 --> 01:21:13,111
you where you're presenting your debate So I'll ask the

663
01:21:13,151 --> 01:21:16,711
colleague who was talking to please allow the Councillors to

664
01:21:17,212 --> 01:21:18,951
ask their questions and make their points if you'd like

665
01:21:18,951 --> 01:21:20,551
to speak You can put your hand up and speak

666
01:21:20,551 --> 01:21:24,983
to the motions before us Um. So Councillor Stevenson maybe

667
01:21:25,004 --> 01:21:27,543
just read out that and then we'll add to it

668
01:21:27,583 --> 01:21:34,725
with what you're adding to. I'm just trying to do

669
01:21:34,746 --> 01:21:37,845
this efficiently as well Um, how much time do I

670
01:21:37,845 --> 01:21:38,165
have right now?

671
01:21:52,358 --> 01:21:55,137
You spoke for about three minutes and 50 seconds before

672
01:21:55,478 --> 01:21:59,697
you started introducing the amendment Okay And if I can

673
01:21:59,697 --> 01:22:01,137
I do two amendments or do I have to do

674
01:22:01,177 --> 01:22:01,777
it all in one.

675
01:22:46,487 --> 01:22:51,938
Okay so if you've submitted some to some language. You

676
01:22:51,938 --> 01:22:53,538
want to put that on the floor You've got something

677
01:22:54,199 --> 01:22:57,298
Substantially different that you want to add to it I

678
01:22:57,298 --> 01:23:00,418
mean not contrary But substantially different that you want to

679
01:23:00,418 --> 01:23:03,138
add to it You can subsequently make an amendment to

680
01:23:03,138 --> 01:23:06,498
the amendment Like all members of Council can If they're

681
01:23:06,498 --> 01:23:08,098
pretty much the same thing You're just adding to it

682
01:23:08,119 --> 01:23:11,700
Like if it's not a distinct part. Then it probably

683
01:23:11,700 --> 01:23:14,420
should go altogether So there's really two options before you

684
01:23:14,761 --> 01:23:16,700
Okay Thanks I think it is distinct I'm going to

685
01:23:16,700 --> 01:23:18,340
move forward with this so that I can think about

686
01:23:18,441 --> 01:23:22,260
the other piece So my amendment is that the motion

687
01:23:22,361 --> 01:23:24,740
be amended to include a new part that reads as

688
01:23:24,740 --> 01:23:28,740
follows The implementation of the proposed winter response for 2026

689
01:23:28,761 --> 01:23:33,380
- 27 be subject to the following I Council approval

690
01:23:33,380 --> 01:23:37,860
of the proposed to be determined arcade location be required

691
01:23:38,121 --> 01:23:41,060
prior to the execution of any contract related to that

692
01:23:41,100 --> 01:23:45,816
location. I all contracts related to the proposed winter response

693
01:23:45,917 --> 01:23:49,096
be placed on a public agenda immediately following their execution

694
01:23:49,597 --> 01:23:54,056
And III all proposed locations be subject to fire and

695
01:23:54,157 --> 01:23:57,896
bylaw compliance Review and sign off by the appropriate city

696
01:23:57,936 --> 01:24:07,140
officials prior to the execution of any related contract. Okay

697
01:24:07,481 --> 01:24:11,218
I'll look for a seconder for that. Councillor Hillier is

698
01:24:11,218 --> 01:24:14,180
willing to second. Okay give us just one sec.

699
01:24:32,191 --> 01:24:34,970
Okay, so we've got that it's moved in seconded Um,

700
01:24:35,231 --> 01:24:37,050
now if you want to speak to the amendment now

701
01:24:37,090 --> 01:24:40,090
I'll just remind you you've got to move the amendment

702
01:24:40,090 --> 01:24:42,625
to the amendment. The first time you speak because you

703
01:24:42,665 --> 01:24:45,345
only get to speak once it council So just early

704
01:24:45,345 --> 01:24:50,579
heads up on that. Yeah.

705
01:24:58,983 --> 01:24:59,202
Going.

706
01:25:10,727 --> 01:25:12,146
You can still speak to the amendment because all you

707
01:25:12,146 --> 01:25:14,386
did was put on the 4 movement 2... But you're

708
01:25:14,386 --> 01:25:16,226
going to see if other colleagues want to speak first

709
01:25:16,407 --> 01:25:19,283
We can do that. Okay. Does anybody else want to

710
01:25:19,283 --> 01:25:23,413
speak to the moved in 2nd an amendment. As it's

711
01:25:23,413 --> 01:25:31,324
on the floor. I don't see anyone. Ou Councillor Pripple

712
01:25:31,324 --> 01:25:34,364
go ahead Thank you so much I do have a

713
01:25:34,404 --> 01:25:39,016
question Let's go for the eye part. And Propose Harricade

714
01:25:39,016 --> 01:25:42,456
locations The way it is right now Wood 696 would

715
01:25:42,496 --> 01:25:44,616
be included in it? Or would it be just the

716
01:25:44,616 --> 01:25:47,336
additional one if you can please confirm that we base

717
01:25:47,437 --> 01:25:51,448
what's in front of us. Thank you Andrew Yuu your

718
01:25:51,448 --> 01:25:53,848
worship This would be for the new location It would

719
01:25:53,848 --> 01:25:58,168
not include 690 the proposed location 696 Coronan - Warner

720
01:25:58,208 --> 01:26:00,488
This would be for their third location that they are

721
01:26:00,488 --> 01:26:05,101
currently Uh, searching for. Okay Thank you for the confirmation

722
01:26:06,322 --> 01:26:14,221
And for the II If I can get from legal

723
01:26:14,322 --> 01:26:18,141
in terms of the placing those on the public agenda

724
01:26:18,162 --> 01:26:19,981
If I can get a feedback from the legal department

725
01:26:20,322 --> 01:26:27,907
Please. Go ahead. Thank you and through your worship Once

726
01:26:27,947 --> 01:26:31,427
the contract's been executed There should be no issue with

727
01:26:32,408 --> 01:26:38,227
public disclosure Subject to any information that had been agreed

728
01:26:38,267 --> 01:26:45,782
to be kept confidential. Councillor Privileg Thank you for that

729
01:26:45,803 --> 01:26:47,622
and for the III If I can get a feedback

730
01:26:47,803 --> 01:26:49,622
from our By - Law Enforcement team.

731
01:27:04,748 --> 01:27:10,025
Go ahead Mr. Maithers. Three worships So we would undertake

732
01:27:10,025 --> 01:27:12,425
the same protocol as we do for all buildings We

733
01:27:12,465 --> 01:27:14,825
ensure we follow up after By - law compliant For

734
01:27:14,865 --> 01:27:17,305
unably By - law compliance perspective to make sure that

735
01:27:17,966 --> 01:27:24,312
they're Biden by the city's by - laws. Dwight Council

736
01:27:24,352 --> 01:27:26,392
Priviley Thank you to all three of you for your

737
01:27:26,392 --> 01:27:35,006
answers. Have Council Ramen and then Councillor Pelosa. Thank you

738
01:27:35,587 --> 01:27:40,161
and through you and on the amendment. Um part three

739
01:27:40,201 --> 01:27:43,281
of the amendment I'm just wondering if staff are aware

740
01:27:43,302 --> 01:27:46,961
of any potential issues around the fire and By -

741
01:27:47,001 --> 01:27:50,001
Lock compliance Review and how they anticipate or read that.

742
01:27:56,987 --> 01:28:00,442
Go ahead. Thank you Andrew your worship in conversation with

743
01:28:01,263 --> 01:28:05,082
Fire Chief Uh... AT Noon today I shared this with

744
01:28:05,103 --> 01:28:08,522
her And we ensure all buildings follow the fire code

745
01:28:08,623 --> 01:28:10,202
So depending on how its own It would be no

746
01:28:10,303 --> 01:28:13,482
different than any other building following the fire code That

747
01:28:13,522 --> 01:28:20,992
we have That we have across the city. Council Rahman

748
01:28:22,053 --> 01:28:25,152
Thank you and through you So I just I want

749
01:28:25,152 --> 01:28:28,032
to make sure I understand that any current location that

750
01:28:28,053 --> 01:28:32,394
was included in the report. Has met fully all fire

751
01:28:32,735 --> 01:28:37,194
and Bylaw Compliance so far to date So therefore they

752
01:28:37,234 --> 01:28:41,194
would not be excluded in the future Because of some

753
01:28:41,295 --> 01:28:45,834
outstanding matter or potential emergency order that was given to

754
01:28:45,855 --> 01:28:55,485
be able to establish said location. Thank you

755
01:28:55,746 --> 01:28:58,445
and through your worship. That is my understanding I can

756
01:28:58,626 --> 01:29:01,405
confirm with the Lennon Fire Department But I have not

757
01:29:01,426 --> 01:29:05,245
been aware of any buildings that have not Uh that

758
01:29:06,066 --> 01:29:08,365
are included in this list Noting that one is to

759
01:29:08,365 --> 01:29:11,405
be determined So we would have to ensure that that

760
01:29:11,586 --> 01:29:14,925
met the fire code And remember warming spaces are different

761
01:29:14,946 --> 01:29:18,925
than emergency shelters when it's looked at through the fire

762
01:29:18,946 --> 01:29:24,843
code For example. Go ahead Thank you and through you

763
01:29:24,944 --> 01:29:28,043
But the language in the winter response includes both And

764
01:29:28,064 --> 01:29:31,243
so I'm just wanting to confirm Because we may have

765
01:29:31,344 --> 01:29:36,443
some warming spaces that aren't Uh potentially or may potentially

766
01:29:36,464 --> 01:29:42,127
have some challenges. Thank you and through your worship Both

767
01:29:42,167 --> 01:29:45,327
spaces not the one that's not determined Acted as warming

768
01:29:45,348 --> 01:29:48,127
spaces in the past winter response And there were no

769
01:29:48,167 --> 01:29:51,727
concerns at that time with respect to the code or

770
01:29:51,727 --> 01:29:56,458
the zoning. Council Ramon. Thank you and through you and

771
01:29:56,498 --> 01:30:03,262
I'd like to move an amendment. To the amendment. Or

772
01:30:03,262 --> 01:30:05,582
an amendment to the main motion Whichever you perceive to

773
01:30:05,582 --> 01:30:05,822
be better.

774
01:30:21,877 --> 01:30:24,176
So Councillor you kind of ask a question of me

775
01:30:24,176 --> 01:30:26,109
there at the end. Which way you could do it?

776
01:30:26,149 --> 01:30:28,189
You can move an amendment to the amendment now Um...

777
01:30:29,170 --> 01:30:31,229
That's no problem If it's related to the amendment If

778
01:30:31,269 --> 01:30:33,629
it's more related to the general provision You've not spoken

779
01:30:33,730 --> 01:30:36,989
yet to the main motion You could also move an

780
01:30:36,989 --> 01:30:40,189
amendment to the Azimed Motion or the main motion Depending

781
01:30:40,189 --> 01:30:43,604
on that this passes or not. To change a component

782
01:30:43,604 --> 01:30:45,364
of it So I guess I'm in your hands on

783
01:30:46,105 --> 01:30:48,004
Is it related to these clauses or is it related

784
01:30:48,105 --> 01:30:51,717
to another piece. Or if you feel like it has

785
01:30:51,717 --> 01:30:53,317
to be attached to this Then I would say do

786
01:30:53,317 --> 01:30:55,717
it now if you feel like it's more independent Um,

787
01:30:55,738 --> 01:30:58,759
then you could do it. At the main motion. Thank

788
01:30:58,759 --> 01:31:01,959
you Andry It's variable So the first part of this

789
01:31:01,980 --> 01:31:06,279
motion reads the implementation of the proposed winter response And

790
01:31:06,279 --> 01:31:09,479
part D also reads that B directed to implement So

791
01:31:09,500 --> 01:31:15,229
it's the implementation piece that I'm trying to amend. So

792
01:31:15,269 --> 01:31:15,469
it's either.

793
01:31:56,837 --> 01:31:59,216
Councillor I think I know what you're going for So

794
01:31:59,256 --> 01:32:02,816
it says in this piece The implementation that proposed winter

795
01:32:02,856 --> 01:32:05,524
Response be subject to the following. Um When we go

796
01:32:05,524 --> 01:32:08,884
back to the main motion You can change the top

797
01:32:08,985 --> 01:32:15,972
level implementation piece. Because if you did it now and

798
01:32:15,972 --> 01:32:17,812
then this failed Then you might have to do it

799
01:32:17,852 --> 01:32:20,212
again But you could just have it applied all because

800
01:32:20,313 --> 01:32:22,732
the Counselor's main pieces of the clauses are 1, 2

801
01:32:22,732 --> 01:32:26,052
and 3 Um, and the B subject 2 piece But

802
01:32:26,052 --> 01:32:29,972
you can I mean you could adjust the implementation piece

803
01:32:30,233 --> 01:32:39,091
in the main. Clause Which I think was D. And

804
01:32:39,091 --> 01:32:42,051
then depending on where this lands Is this landing under

805
01:32:42,091 --> 01:32:42,211
D.

806
01:33:37,355 --> 01:33:39,174
You could do it after You could change the word

807
01:33:39,214 --> 01:33:44,134
implementation in its forms throughout the has amended motion or

808
01:33:44,134 --> 01:33:48,707
the main motion. After this is passed. But we don't

809
01:33:48,707 --> 01:33:50,147
know what you're trying to do So you might need

810
01:33:50,187 --> 01:33:52,147
to give us more context We could probably rule a

811
01:33:52,147 --> 01:33:54,947
little bit better on this Okay Thank you Um so

812
01:33:55,848 --> 01:33:57,667
my context I guess is this I would like to

813
01:33:57,928 --> 01:34:01,747
amend this motion to include part D Notwithstanding Council Policy

814
01:34:01,768 --> 01:34:04,067
regarding the existence of resting spaces on the main street

815
01:34:04,067 --> 01:34:04,547
of BIA.

816
01:36:25,031 --> 01:36:28,610
Okay, so our advice after some discussion is do it

817
01:36:28,610 --> 01:36:33,810
now because given the context of your emotion, the support

818
01:36:33,991 --> 01:36:37,970
or not for clauses, these new classes that Councillor Stephen

819
01:36:38,391 --> 01:36:42,130
has proposed may be subject to the clause that you

820
01:36:42,231 --> 01:36:45,135
want to put link to the implementation. If this passes

821
01:36:46,036 --> 01:36:49,215
in the asm - ended motion, the implementation piece would

822
01:36:49,255 --> 01:36:51,375
need to be cleaned up because you can't implement it

823
01:36:52,116 --> 01:36:55,215
without doing these things. And so we will have changed

824
01:36:55,556 --> 01:36:59,375
the subject two piece on the implementation. So now is

825
01:36:59,415 --> 01:37:04,495
the time to do it. And then it will link

826
01:37:04,495 --> 01:37:06,288
in with the main motion. We'll have to do something

827
01:37:06,309 --> 01:37:10,466
later because it'll be part of it. Okay? All right.

828
01:37:21,682 --> 01:37:26,866
Could you just read it out. And then you can

829
01:37:27,207 --> 01:37:30,386
provide some more rationale because it'll be as amended motion.

830
01:37:30,407 --> 01:37:33,506
Thank you. That the motion be amended to be further

831
01:37:33,687 --> 01:37:37,266
amended to add a new part IV that reads as

832
01:37:37,266 --> 01:37:42,066
follows, notwithstanding a Council policy regarding the existing resting spaces

833
01:37:42,087 --> 01:37:47,588
on Main Street of BIA. Is there a seconder for

834
01:37:47,588 --> 01:37:53,171
that? Councillor Trosow. Okay, so now we're only going to

835
01:37:53,171 --> 01:37:57,705
debate that edition to the amendment. So we're not debating

836
01:37:58,046 --> 01:38:03,225
the amendment. We're debating that additional clause onto the amendment.

837
01:38:04,295 --> 01:38:05,794
Go, would you like to speed now? Okay, go ahead.

838
01:38:07,667 --> 01:38:10,126
Thank you, Andrew. So I want to thank Councillor Stevenson

839
01:38:10,147 --> 01:38:13,946
for pointing out what was missing from our discussion. And

840
01:38:13,946 --> 01:38:19,486
I think it's important that this discussion beframed correctly and

841
01:38:19,486 --> 01:38:22,606
that the information be put in this light. I know

842
01:38:22,707 --> 01:38:27,006
there was support for this last year when we were

843
01:38:27,046 --> 01:38:30,206
looking at resting spaces. And part of the reason for

844
01:38:30,246 --> 01:38:33,486
that support to allow resting spaces on the Main Street

845
01:38:33,507 --> 01:38:36,586
of a BIA was because we didn't have a lot

846
01:38:36,586 --> 01:38:40,366
of options for where else people could go. And so

847
01:38:40,867 --> 01:38:44,526
here we are. We've received staff's report, staff of outlined

848
01:38:44,526 --> 01:38:49,146
the locations that were possible for, uh, overnight spaces. And

849
01:38:49,146 --> 01:38:52,846
this was one that was put forward. And I want

850
01:38:52,846 --> 01:38:57,326
to make sure that non - technicality, uh, but purposefully

851
01:38:57,747 --> 01:39:00,686
we're addressing the issue so that there is those spaces

852
01:39:00,787 --> 01:39:05,886
available. Or for this upcoming winter. So appreciate that we're

853
01:39:05,886 --> 01:39:09,006
having this discussion here. I'm sorry that it didn't happen

854
01:39:09,347 --> 01:39:13,246
at committee. Um, and hope that this helps us to

855
01:39:13,246 --> 01:39:17,246
move forward on this matter. Okay. Other speakers on the

856
01:39:18,147 --> 01:39:26,424
further amendment. Go ahead, Councillor Tro. Just on the amendment,

857
01:39:26,424 --> 01:39:28,984
because I'll come back to the, um, just on the

858
01:39:28,984 --> 01:39:32,104
amendment to the amendments. I'll come back to the amendment.

859
01:39:32,104 --> 01:39:34,765
Um. I think it's a good amendment to the amendment.

860
01:39:35,321 --> 01:39:38,580
I think it's a reasonable amendment to a bad amendment.

861
01:39:39,083 --> 01:39:41,462
So I'm going to support the amendment to the amendment.

862
01:39:41,462 --> 01:39:43,702
I'm not going to support the amendment, but we'll get

863
01:39:43,702 --> 01:39:45,902
to that later. Um, for now, what I want to

864
01:39:45,902 --> 01:39:50,422
say is I hope that was clear. Yeah. Okay. Uh,

865
01:39:50,603 --> 01:39:53,062
for now, what I want to say is I, I've

866
01:39:53,083 --> 01:39:59,302
always felt that this whole prohibition against having, uh, these

867
01:39:59,323 --> 01:40:03,462
activities that are, that are, that are lawful activities that

868
01:40:03,462 --> 01:40:07,222
are within, that are within the appropriate zoning that are

869
01:40:07,222 --> 01:40:11,382
things that are being, uh, controlled and monitored by the

870
01:40:11,483 --> 01:40:17,102
property owner probably was a bit of an overreach. And

871
01:40:17,923 --> 01:40:22,462
should they be challenged? There could be substantial issues. Now,

872
01:40:22,462 --> 01:40:25,822
I'm not, I'm not asking the solicitor for an opinion

873
01:40:26,323 --> 01:40:29,422
as to whether or not this framework is subject to

874
01:40:29,523 --> 01:40:32,862
a successful attack. All I'm saying is when we come

875
01:40:32,902 --> 01:40:37,419
back and make these. Amendments, we're just showing a level

876
01:40:37,459 --> 01:40:43,179
of flexibility that, that shows we're trying to ameliorate the

877
01:40:43,280 --> 01:40:48,059
potential harshness of the underlying rule. And I think, should

878
01:40:48,059 --> 01:40:50,619
we find ourselves in a situation where we're trying to

879
01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:54,699
defend our, um, our work that would help us a

880
01:40:54,699 --> 01:41:01,801
lot. So that's why I'm supporting Council Raman's. Amendment. Does

881
01:41:01,822 --> 01:41:05,801
the underlying measure say you can't do this on the

882
01:41:05,841 --> 01:41:07,881
street or does it say you can't do it on

883
01:41:07,902 --> 01:41:11,891
any premises with an address on the street. I don't

884
01:41:11,912 --> 01:41:20,004
have that in front of me. Mr. Dickens.

885
01:41:22,379 --> 01:41:24,678
Thank you, your worship. I need a moment to pull

886
01:41:24,718 --> 01:41:27,158
up the exact wording, but it was tied to city

887
01:41:27,198 --> 01:41:30,438
funding only. So not self - funded or funded through

888
01:41:30,779 --> 01:41:34,438
other parties, but any municipal funded service, uh, on the

889
01:41:34,478 --> 01:41:36,358
main street of a B. I. A. It did not

890
01:41:36,459 --> 01:41:38,678
specify whether it was in a dwelling out of a

891
01:41:38,678 --> 01:41:41,255
dwelling or anything like that. And if I understand the

892
01:41:41,255 --> 01:41:43,875
situation, they are not housing people on the street, are

893
01:41:43,875 --> 01:41:51,031
they? Go ahead, Mr. Dickens. Through your worship, that is

894
01:41:51,071 --> 01:41:56,296
correct understanding. Um, hence one more level of ambiguity in

895
01:41:56,317 --> 01:42:00,456
this underlying, uh, measure that could create problems for us

896
01:42:00,557 --> 01:42:02,776
if it was challenged. Now I'm not, I'm not going

897
01:42:02,797 --> 01:42:06,356
to, uh, make a further motion that we, we, uh,

898
01:42:07,117 --> 01:42:09,256
we, we do some major changes to what we already

899
01:42:10,717 --> 01:42:13,576
agreed to. But I just, I just think that given,

900
01:42:13,616 --> 01:42:18,436
given that ambiguous language, which could be problematic. Because for

901
01:42:18,436 --> 01:42:22,196
me, being on the street means being on street. Um,

902
01:42:23,037 --> 01:42:25,316
I just, I just think that this kind of, um,

903
01:42:25,917 --> 01:42:29,236
amendment just sort of gives us the kind of, uh,

904
01:42:29,277 --> 01:42:33,096
flexibility that could really assist this later if we got

905
01:42:33,136 --> 01:42:35,816
into, uh, legal, legal trouble. So I'm going to vote

906
01:42:35,856 --> 01:42:39,076
against the entire thing, but, well, the entire amendment. But

907
01:42:39,076 --> 01:42:42,376
if the amendment passes, it's much stronger and much better

908
01:42:42,797 --> 01:42:45,670
with this. So thank you for, thank you for bringing

909
01:42:46,011 --> 01:42:54,545
that, Councillor. Okay. I have Councillor McAllister next. Uh, thank.

910
01:42:55,214 --> 01:42:58,153
Thanking through the mayor. Uh, I do appreciate the discussion

911
01:42:58,174 --> 01:43:02,233
today. Um, I think Councillor Stevenson had mentioned this earlier,

912
01:43:02,233 --> 01:43:05,193
but, um, I do take a bit of issue in

913
01:43:05,193 --> 01:43:07,113
terms of when we have these discussions in terms of

914
01:43:07,294 --> 01:43:10,793
the notwithstanding, the Council policy, um, I think back to

915
01:43:10,833 --> 01:43:13,433
the time when we had this debate, uh, and it

916
01:43:13,433 --> 01:43:17,753
is predominantly the two B. I. that are constantly impacted

917
01:43:17,793 --> 01:43:20,633
by this. I do recognise in terms of the time

918
01:43:20,673 --> 01:43:23,993
restriction we've put on this. Also recognising we have limited

919
01:43:24,014 --> 01:43:27,433
options as Council Ramen said, um, but when I look

920
01:43:27,454 --> 01:43:31,393
ahead to the, um, the budget ask that we'll be

921
01:43:31,393 --> 01:43:33,673
made on the next cycle. I think that that is

922
01:43:33,713 --> 01:43:35,753
the time where we need to have those discussions in

923
01:43:35,753 --> 01:43:39,113
terms of locations and where we see these things long

924
01:43:39,214 --> 01:43:42,793
term. Because right now I think it is incredibly unfair.

925
01:43:42,814 --> 01:43:46,233
Even when we say B. I. it's not. It's two

926
01:43:46,233 --> 01:43:48,633
B. I. A's. Um, I experienced this with the coffee

927
01:43:48,734 --> 01:43:52,233
house, OAV has experienced this for a number of years.

928
01:43:52,233 --> 01:43:54,793
And so I'm just expressing the frustration that I'm hearing

929
01:43:54,894 --> 01:43:56,633
from the B. I. A. A. members from the community

930
01:43:56,673 --> 01:43:59,193
members that we are constantly putting in on the shoulders

931
01:43:59,614 --> 01:44:02,393
of two communities. And that is why I'm trying to

932
01:44:02,574 --> 01:44:05,913
state a Council that when this discussion comes back for

933
01:44:05,913 --> 01:44:09,913
those, um, budget discussions, then we need to recognise that

934
01:44:09,953 --> 01:44:13,513
we have repeatedly asked two areas of the city to

935
01:44:13,774 --> 01:44:18,470
shoulder the responsibility. And that is grossly unfair. When we

936
01:44:19,211 --> 01:44:22,870
say the notwithstanding this policy, I was very serious in

937
01:44:22,870 --> 01:44:25,490
that discussion that these are the two B. I.'s. And

938
01:44:25,490 --> 01:44:27,350
if I have to change the language to explicitly say

939
01:44:28,011 --> 01:44:31,950
Hamilton Road and OEV, which will eventually become one, or

940
01:44:31,950 --> 01:44:34,290
not one, but they will be in one ward. Uh,

941
01:44:34,290 --> 01:44:36,310
I will change the language accordingly if I have to,

942
01:44:36,350 --> 01:44:37,990
to call out those B. I. A. s because they

943
01:44:38,030 --> 01:44:40,950
have shouldered this for far too many years. So I'm

944
01:44:40,990 --> 01:44:43,670
just calling it out. I recognise again, the situation we're

945
01:44:43,710 --> 01:44:46,352
in. We do have some lead time. But this is

946
01:44:46,853 --> 01:44:49,952
absolutely the last time that I am willing to support

947
01:44:50,293 --> 01:44:53,085
an extension of this sort. Because we have no other

948
01:44:53,106 --> 01:44:56,685
options right now. I am looking forward to, uh, with

949
01:44:56,786 --> 01:44:58,845
this amendment in terms of, well, this is the amendment

950
01:44:58,845 --> 01:45:02,925
to the amendment, but having that location discussed because I

951
01:45:02,946 --> 01:45:05,165
don't, I think it would be unfair to once again,

952
01:45:05,165 --> 01:45:08,885
ask those areas, uh, to take on this responsibility. So

953
01:45:09,666 --> 01:45:11,645
I'm understanding where we're at. I do very much feel

954
01:45:11,746 --> 01:45:16,365
like this is again, um, no win situation. Um, the

955
01:45:16,405 --> 01:45:20,665
same areas are going to unfortunately bear the brunt. But

956
01:45:20,665 --> 01:45:23,165
I do think that this plan, as it's been laid

957
01:45:23,165 --> 01:45:25,385
out is better than what we previously had. We're not

958
01:45:25,666 --> 01:45:28,365
giving up a community centre. Uh, and we are trying

959
01:45:28,386 --> 01:45:32,685
to accommodate smaller numbers and not have large facility, which

960
01:45:32,685 --> 01:45:35,005
would be a very difficult to manage. So I'm just

961
01:45:35,045 --> 01:45:37,485
trying to say, I recognise all the considerations have gone

962
01:45:37,485 --> 01:45:42,884
into this. Appreciate the amendment to the amendment that we're

963
01:45:42,924 --> 01:45:45,604
now discussing. Um, but these are some considerations that we

964
01:45:45,625 --> 01:45:47,764
absolutely need to take into account when we have these

965
01:45:47,764 --> 01:45:55,462
discussions. So thank you. Okay. On this, go ahead Councillor

966
01:45:55,462 --> 01:45:59,993
Stevenson and then Councillor Ferreira. Thank you. Um, I just

967
01:46:00,033 --> 01:46:02,633
will point out that I said that to move things

968
01:46:02,814 --> 01:46:06,473
along, I was going to let people speak so that

969
01:46:06,473 --> 01:46:07,993
I could work on the amendment that I was bringing.

970
01:46:11,178 --> 01:46:13,237
Councillors are allowed to bring another one. But of course

971
01:46:13,578 --> 01:46:17,057
it's contrary to the direction that I was going, but

972
01:46:17,057 --> 01:46:20,437
that's okay. It's consistent with the way this has been

973
01:46:20,458 --> 01:46:27,565
at this during this term of Council. The 696 Dandas

974
01:46:27,565 --> 01:46:31,699
Street location. Is a problem. It is a big problem

975
01:46:31,880 --> 01:46:35,219
for that neighbourhood and for the neighbouring businesses who pay

976
01:46:35,400 --> 01:46:38,739
a levy and have a B. I. A. because this

977
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:42,259
Council had it as one of their strategic objectives to

978
01:46:42,360 --> 01:46:47,219
make that a viable, livable, vibrant business district with the

979
01:46:47,219 --> 01:46:50,183
way that area deserves. The same as every other area

980
01:46:50,364 --> 01:46:56,246
of the city. To say that there's no other locations

981
01:46:57,227 --> 01:47:00,326
is counter to our whole objective of 12 to 15

982
01:47:00,427 --> 01:47:04,513
hubs around the city. How did we all get behind

983
01:47:04,534 --> 01:47:07,792
that. Well, not all of us. But this Council got

984
01:47:07,813 --> 01:47:11,392
behind that. And yet just says there's nothing we can

985
01:47:11,392 --> 01:47:17,790
do about poor old East Village. So my motion would

986
01:47:17,830 --> 01:47:20,670
have been to say we're going to exclude taxpayer funding

987
01:47:20,691 --> 01:47:24,190
from the 690 6nd Street location. And I will move

988
01:47:24,211 --> 01:47:30,265
that if this fails. The overnight spaces at 696 Dundes

989
01:47:30,286 --> 01:47:34,585
Street have continued to operate under donations as they should.

990
01:47:35,264 --> 01:47:38,603
We should not be using the property tax dollars or

991
01:47:38,704 --> 01:47:42,923
the, uh, the tax dollars, whether they're federal, provincial or

992
01:47:42,963 --> 01:47:47,243
municipal of the residents of that neighbour, neighbourhood and the

993
01:47:47,283 --> 01:47:50,843
business owners and property owners of that area to fund

994
01:47:51,104 --> 01:47:55,243
the spaces to which they have been crying out for

995
01:47:55,344 --> 01:47:59,620
help. If it's done on donations and property that's owned

996
01:47:59,660 --> 01:48:03,920
by a charitable organisation, that's for them to do. But

997
01:48:03,920 --> 01:48:07,860
for this Council to support in the fourth year of

998
01:48:07,900 --> 01:48:12,700
this term to continue to use their taxpayer money, to

999
01:48:12,700 --> 01:48:15,620
fund these services when they have cried out in despair

1000
01:48:16,201 --> 01:48:20,327
for four years. And their Councillor has advocated for help

1001
01:48:20,828 --> 01:48:24,167
that we just stop using their money to cause the

1002
01:48:24,188 --> 01:48:29,413
problem. So I would encourage Council to say no to

1003
01:48:29,413 --> 01:48:33,893
this. They the overnight spaces will continue. They haven't stopped,

1004
01:48:33,893 --> 01:48:38,234
but they were used by charitable donations. And at half

1005
01:48:38,234 --> 01:48:40,394
the cost I must add, because when you see it

1006
01:48:40,394 --> 01:48:45,002
on Facebook, it's 50 dollars a night. So I'm asking

1007
01:48:45,183 --> 01:48:48,362
Council to say no to this. Allow the organisation to

1008
01:48:48,402 --> 01:48:50,762
do it with donations. And then at least we're not

1009
01:48:50,863 --> 01:48:54,855
guilty of using their money. To do the service. It's

1010
01:48:55,356 --> 01:49:00,135
going to continue anyway. Let's just honour our strategic objectives

1011
01:49:02,076 --> 01:49:05,973
and the voice of that neighbourhood. And the pleas of

1012
01:49:06,013 --> 01:49:08,053
that neighbourhood to say, please don't do it with our

1013
01:49:08,154 --> 01:49:16,244
tax money. Councillor. Thank you Mayor.

1014
01:49:18,356 --> 01:49:24,075
Um, so like the conversation here, lots of ideas, um,

1015
01:49:24,196 --> 01:49:27,015
and this discussion has been going on for, I think

1016
01:49:27,316 --> 01:49:29,615
three and a half years or however long council has

1017
01:49:29,615 --> 01:49:33,295
been here since I've been here. Um, like when we

1018
01:49:33,335 --> 01:49:38,395
first discussed, um, restricting resting spaces in the OEV, uh,

1019
01:49:38,395 --> 01:49:41,615
that was very politically driven. And it was not really

1020
01:49:42,356 --> 01:49:46,575
a conversation that focused on what would be the consequences.

1021
01:49:46,575 --> 01:49:50,575
It was a motion to try to remove service providers

1022
01:49:50,756 --> 01:49:55,375
and shelters within, um, the OEV and within B. I's.

1023
01:49:56,247 --> 01:50:00,386
The anticipated result of that was to see, to push

1024
01:50:01,527 --> 01:50:05,074
these providers outside. Hopefully, I believe, and this is my

1025
01:50:05,074 --> 01:50:07,794
opinion, it was to push outside of the OEV. That

1026
01:50:07,975 --> 01:50:13,554
didn't translate into reality. What really happened was individuals are

1027
01:50:13,554 --> 01:50:15,694
just left out on the street. And there was more

1028
01:50:15,734 --> 01:50:18,705
individuals out on the street. And the reason that I

1029
01:50:19,206 --> 01:50:23,505
was against that initial motion was because of exactly that.

1030
01:50:23,505 --> 01:50:27,185
And today a lot of individuals are saying our homelessness

1031
01:50:27,206 --> 01:50:30,742
crisis is that, you know, is through the roof. And

1032
01:50:30,782 --> 01:50:32,342
some of the reasons of that is because we have

1033
01:50:32,363 --> 01:50:36,189
been systematically shutting down spaces with motions like this. I

1034
01:50:36,229 --> 01:50:39,522
was against this motion at the time. Um, because of

1035
01:50:39,522 --> 01:50:42,242
that, I'm still against that because I understand that the

1036
01:50:42,282 --> 01:50:46,242
capacity that we have is really within these areas. However,

1037
01:50:47,143 --> 01:50:52,162
I also see that there is a truth, a reality

1038
01:50:52,183 --> 01:50:56,562
that we do have service providers within a small area.

1039
01:50:57,331 --> 01:51:01,870
And I do not see the city providing citywide anyways,

1040
01:51:01,870 --> 01:51:06,030
providing such providers. So there is some merit with some

1041
01:51:06,030 --> 01:51:07,550
of the things that are being said. Now I am

1042
01:51:08,211 --> 01:51:13,230
going to vote for this notwithstanding amendment because I understand

1043
01:51:13,411 --> 01:51:16,590
that we have to work with what we have right

1044
01:51:16,691 --> 01:51:20,110
now because we do have a crisis. But I would

1045
01:51:20,110 --> 01:51:23,370
also suggest we put an amendment to this amendment. Can

1046
01:51:23,370 --> 01:51:26,110
I put another amendment on this. Word. There are already

1047
01:51:26,150 --> 01:51:27,870
two amendments deep. You can't do another one yet. Okay.

1048
01:51:27,870 --> 01:51:30,910
Well on the main motion, we need to put some

1049
01:51:31,091 --> 01:51:35,832
priority. To look at all locations citywide. To help us

1050
01:51:36,653 --> 01:51:40,386
when it comes to the homelessness crisis. We need to

1051
01:51:40,647 --> 01:51:43,186
have specific language. And I think this might be the

1052
01:51:43,207 --> 01:51:46,752
time to do it. To also look citywide of where

1053
01:51:46,752 --> 01:51:49,552
capacity can also be increased. Because there is a debate

1054
01:51:49,733 --> 01:51:51,872
and it has turned into a battle of the wards

1055
01:51:52,053 --> 01:51:55,952
back and forth. Who is going to put spaces out

1056
01:51:56,133 --> 01:51:59,452
to help people in need out on the street? Who

1057
01:51:59,493 --> 01:52:02,752
is not this conversation has gone off again and again

1058
01:52:03,013 --> 01:52:08,432
and again and again. And there is merit to some

1059
01:52:08,432 --> 01:52:11,113
of the arguments I see here. But I will say

1060
01:52:11,774 --> 01:52:17,273
the motion originally to shut down or not approve city

1061
01:52:17,273 --> 01:52:20,433
funded resting spaces in the areas of the B. I.

1062
01:52:20,433 --> 01:52:23,744
A. has led to more crisis. Has led to more

1063
01:52:23,744 --> 01:52:26,624
people on the street. That is a reality. If we

1064
01:52:26,645 --> 01:52:28,864
didn't do that, more people would be in on the

1065
01:52:28,864 --> 01:52:32,144
street. Now service providers that do this work would still

1066
01:52:32,184 --> 01:52:34,784
be in that area, but there'd be less people out

1067
01:52:34,784 --> 01:52:38,589
on the street. That would be for sure. So I'm

1068
01:52:38,589 --> 01:52:42,109
going to support this because I understand that our capacity

1069
01:52:42,149 --> 01:52:44,349
right now is existing where it is. But I would

1070
01:52:44,389 --> 01:52:48,087
also say we do need to start figuring out. How

1071
01:52:48,127 --> 01:52:53,687
do we place locations elsewhere. This motion should be in

1072
01:52:53,687 --> 01:52:56,727
coordination with another set of language that says we need

1073
01:52:56,727 --> 01:53:02,451
to start prioritizing other spaces outside the core. That provide

1074
01:53:02,792 --> 01:53:06,851
these services that provide shelter, that provide housing that provide

1075
01:53:06,872 --> 01:53:10,110
all the services resting spaces, whatever the language is. We

1076
01:53:10,110 --> 01:53:13,070
need to start putting that explicitly into this language too,

1077
01:53:13,070 --> 01:53:15,550
because not only do we need to recognise what we

1078
01:53:15,550 --> 01:53:19,310
have, the crisis that we're in, what we've learned on

1079
01:53:19,350 --> 01:53:23,710
this type of direction, but also how do we mitigate

1080
01:53:24,371 --> 01:53:28,030
these issues that are arising? Because there's some realities here,

1081
01:53:28,030 --> 01:53:29,790
but we need to start really looking at the data.

1082
01:53:29,790 --> 01:53:31,870
We need to start looking at what has really transpired

1083
01:53:32,291 --> 01:53:35,265
in the last three years. With this direction. And we

1084
01:53:35,265 --> 01:53:38,465
need to start really understanding that there is only a

1085
01:53:38,465 --> 01:53:41,405
couple areas in the city that have really put, you

1086
01:53:41,405 --> 01:53:45,775
know, all hands in. To respond. We need the rest

1087
01:53:45,815 --> 01:53:48,495
of the city to be responding with us. 30 seconds.

1088
01:53:48,596 --> 01:53:51,535
So I guess I'm going to have to move an

1089
01:53:51,535 --> 01:53:54,335
amendment. So it's coming. You can't on the main motion.

1090
01:53:59,154 --> 01:54:02,013
Okay. Other speakers to the amendment that is before us.

1091
01:54:02,013 --> 01:54:08,196
Go ahead, Depreer Lewis. Thank you, Chair. So in listening

1092
01:54:08,196 --> 01:54:11,956
to this conversation, I think we need to draw a

1093
01:54:12,057 --> 01:54:16,077
colleagues attention back to some realities. First of all, I'm

1094
01:54:16,077 --> 01:54:17,757
going to support the amendment. I think it's, it's the

1095
01:54:18,338 --> 01:54:20,717
appropriate amendment to clean up the language, make sure that

1096
01:54:20,757 --> 01:54:28,418
that's in there. Um, reality one. The ARK and the

1097
01:54:28,439 --> 01:54:34,171
unity project. Own their buildings. So if you want to

1098
01:54:34,171 --> 01:54:36,131
talk about moving them, then you better talk about a

1099
01:54:36,171 --> 01:54:39,011
multi - year budget business plan for property acquisition to

1100
01:54:39,112 --> 01:54:42,131
then do land swaps with them because that is what

1101
01:54:42,392 --> 01:54:47,929
you're talking about. I would also remind colleagues. That the

1102
01:54:47,950 --> 01:54:49,849
core is not the only location where we have homelessness

1103
01:54:49,870 --> 01:54:53,023
services. On Clark Road in the East End, I have

1104
01:54:53,023 --> 01:54:56,960
the YOU Youth Shelter. I also have the Innova Women's

1105
01:54:56,981 --> 01:55:01,856
Shutter. South of the 40 - 1 is where we

1106
01:55:01,896 --> 01:55:04,336
put the micromoduler shelter because we weren't going to put

1107
01:55:04,336 --> 01:55:07,418
it. Again in the downtown. And I heard colleagues argue

1108
01:55:07,458 --> 01:55:09,418
against that because it was too far away because it

1109
01:55:09,458 --> 01:55:14,620
wasn't in the core. So respectfully to say that all

1110
01:55:14,660 --> 01:55:17,500
the services are in the core is not accurate. There

1111
01:55:17,540 --> 01:55:22,407
are services in multiple words across the city. Um, and

1112
01:55:22,908 --> 01:55:25,927
the last time we brought something forward as a council,

1113
01:55:25,927 --> 01:55:28,807
the micromoduler shelter, which I think has been very successful

1114
01:55:28,908 --> 01:55:34,594
so far. Was deliberately put outside the core. Because there

1115
01:55:34,634 --> 01:55:38,810
are a range of needs in our homeless population. There

1116
01:55:38,850 --> 01:55:42,410
are, uh, folks who do need to be away from

1117
01:55:42,431 --> 01:55:46,014
the core area. So that they can, uh, go through

1118
01:55:46,675 --> 01:55:50,174
their journey towards, uh, recovering from addiction, from dealing with

1119
01:55:50,214 --> 01:55:52,894
their mental health crisis, from whatever the situation might be.

1120
01:55:53,075 --> 01:55:54,974
In some cases, just to reconnect with family to get

1121
01:55:55,014 --> 01:55:56,334
back up on their feet, to get back up to

1122
01:55:56,374 --> 01:55:58,334
working and be back out on their own. And I

1123
01:55:58,334 --> 01:56:00,734
know we've had people at the micromodular shelter who have

1124
01:56:00,774 --> 01:56:02,974
seen that progress and have actually moved out of the

1125
01:56:03,075 --> 01:56:07,534
micromodulator shelter and are now, uh, in rental units elsewhere.

1126
01:56:07,534 --> 01:56:09,586
Some of whom I know are back to work. That's,

1127
01:56:09,626 --> 01:56:11,986
that's a success. And we know that we've seen the

1128
01:56:12,247 --> 01:56:15,586
arc with its cronin warner, uh, project do the same

1129
01:56:15,586 --> 01:56:18,946
thing. They have shown us numbers of people who have

1130
01:56:18,986 --> 01:56:22,306
been in those beds who have been able to reconnect

1131
01:56:22,346 --> 01:56:25,106
with family who've been able to get health services who've

1132
01:56:25,106 --> 01:56:27,266
been able to get, uh, help with employment services and

1133
01:56:27,306 --> 01:56:28,546
have been able to get back out on their own.

1134
01:56:30,582 --> 01:56:34,888
I also think we have to be practical that. Say

1135
01:56:34,888 --> 01:56:37,448
this every time we have this discussion to hundreds of

1136
01:56:37,448 --> 01:56:39,448
people, I've said it on the doorstep hundreds of times

1137
01:56:39,789 --> 01:56:41,588
too in the last couple of months. The city's not

1138
01:56:41,588 --> 01:56:46,345
going to solve this problem alone. We're not. Ladies and

1139
01:56:46,345 --> 01:56:50,745
gentlemen, without a serious effort by the province. And we

1140
01:56:50,766 --> 01:56:53,225
could, we could talk about ODSP rates and O. Rates

1141
01:56:53,406 --> 01:56:57,045
and how the shelter allowances are not nearly adequate, uh,

1142
01:56:57,045 --> 01:56:59,225
we could talk about the need for the federal government

1143
01:56:59,326 --> 01:57:02,831
to invest more affordable housing. As well as the province

1144
01:57:03,012 --> 01:57:05,951
investing in healthcare beds, uh, in addiction and mental health

1145
01:57:05,972 --> 01:57:08,591
recovery. We can talk about all of those things. We

1146
01:57:08,692 --> 01:57:12,559
can't do them. There are MPPs and MPs whose job

1147
01:57:12,559 --> 01:57:14,799
it is to address those issues. So we can only

1148
01:57:14,839 --> 01:57:17,682
do our part. And I think with what we've got

1149
01:57:17,722 --> 01:57:20,402
here before us in the winter response, this is the

1150
01:57:20,402 --> 01:57:24,153
best option we have for the moment. I'm going to

1151
01:57:24,294 --> 01:57:28,327
support the amendment. Uh, I will actually just for the

1152
01:57:28,348 --> 01:57:32,007
clerk's sake so that they can, uh, perhaps separate out

1153
01:57:32,047 --> 01:57:36,336
some language. On the amendment from Councillor Stevenson, uh, and

1154
01:57:36,336 --> 01:57:37,536
I'll speak to this when we get back to that.

1155
01:57:37,536 --> 01:57:40,936
But if we could separate out part one. Cause I

1156
01:57:40,936 --> 01:57:42,336
want to vote on that differently than the other parts.

1157
01:57:42,958 --> 01:57:44,857
Um, so if we could do that, that would be

1158
01:57:44,897 --> 01:57:48,297
appreciated. But that's my comments on the, on the amendment

1159
01:57:48,297 --> 01:57:50,857
from Council Rahman. I'm absolutely going to support it because

1160
01:57:50,897 --> 01:57:53,937
I think we do need to recognise that notwithstanding, we

1161
01:57:53,937 --> 01:57:56,809
have two providers who are stepping up. Who own buildings

1162
01:57:56,849 --> 01:58:00,303
in the area. And until we are willing to spend

1163
01:58:00,343 --> 01:58:03,103
money to acquire properties, that's going to continue to be

1164
01:58:03,143 --> 01:58:12,939
a reality. Okay. Other speakers to Council Ramen's

1165
01:58:12,939 --> 01:58:19,007
Amendment. All right. Singe Nummer going to open just Council

1166
01:58:19,047 --> 01:58:20,367
Ramens amendment for voting.

1167
01:58:36,113 --> 01:58:43,436
Closing the vote, motion carries 14 to one. Okay. Now

1168
01:58:43,457 --> 01:58:48,316
I need an as amended motion. Um, for the amendment,

1169
01:58:48,316 --> 01:58:50,276
uh, which I assume Councillor Stevenson, you don't want to

1170
01:58:50,276 --> 01:58:53,036
move anymore. Council Ramen, you're willing to move. I need

1171
01:58:53,057 --> 01:58:56,556
a seconder for the as amended motion, Deputy Mary Lewis.

1172
01:59:08,982 --> 01:59:10,544
Okay. So now we're going to start debate on the

1173
01:59:11,285 --> 01:59:18,596
as amended amendment. Councillor Stevenson. Thank you. Um, so I

1174
01:59:18,596 --> 01:59:20,916
just want to go through the first part is the

1175
01:59:21,017 --> 01:59:24,996
approval of the proposed 40 space location that is listed

1176
01:59:25,177 --> 01:59:28,448
currently as to be determined. And, uh, I know that

1177
01:59:28,469 --> 01:59:30,768
the residents that I speak want to have a say

1178
01:59:30,869 --> 01:59:32,848
in where that goes and they want it to be

1179
01:59:32,869 --> 01:59:36,048
done publicly and not just find out after the fact.

1180
01:59:36,048 --> 01:59:40,128
So I think that's important, especially given the, what the

1181
01:59:40,128 --> 01:59:42,688
confirmation. And I just want to confirm through you to

1182
01:59:42,688 --> 01:59:46,368
staff that the emergency shelter guidelines, if we pass them

1183
01:59:46,389 --> 01:59:51,968
today with the illegal substances allowed inside that that does,

1184
01:59:51,968 --> 01:59:54,528
uh, apply to these warming spaces as well. Like I

1185
01:59:54,528 --> 01:59:56,688
confirmed at committee, but I just want to reconfirm here

1186
01:59:56,949 --> 02:00:02,897
at Council. Go ahead. Three of your worship. Um, yes,

1187
02:00:02,897 --> 02:00:06,177
the emergency shelter guidelines do prioritize bringing people indures when

1188
02:00:06,278 --> 02:00:08,417
there's risks to them being outside. And so in the

1189
02:00:08,457 --> 02:00:11,457
winter season, this would be further exacerbated. Um, leaving people

1190
02:00:11,638 --> 02:00:14,337
outdoors in the cold. And so those same shelter guidelines

1191
02:00:14,358 --> 02:00:17,617
would still apply to the winter spaces. Um, the staff

1192
02:00:17,638 --> 02:00:20,417
are still responsible for ensuring safe, um, premises on the

1193
02:00:20,457 --> 02:00:22,337
ground. They're regardless of the client that are in the

1194
02:00:22,337 --> 02:00:27,466
space. Thank you. So again, because illegal substances are most

1195
02:00:27,487 --> 02:00:30,906
likely to be allowed inside if this next motion passes

1196
02:00:31,327 --> 02:00:34,746
or the next, uh, agenda item passes. I think it's,

1197
02:00:34,746 --> 02:00:36,746
uh, something that Londoners want to know and they want

1198
02:00:37,087 --> 02:00:39,786
there to know where their Council members stand when these

1199
02:00:39,826 --> 02:00:43,546
locations are decided. Number two is that all contracts be

1200
02:00:43,586 --> 02:00:46,506
placed on the public agenda. Uh, there's no reason why

1201
02:00:46,607 --> 02:00:49,306
these contracts aren't placed on the public agenda. We've done

1202
02:00:49,346 --> 02:00:52,186
it before. We want to see the details on it.

1203
02:00:52,186 --> 02:00:54,986
We've seen the contracts for the ARC that we say

1204
02:00:55,087 --> 02:00:58,586
daytime spaces, but we've seen the hours shrink from 11

1205
02:00:58,607 --> 02:01:03,066
to 7 to, uh, 9 to 4, 3 to 7

1206
02:01:03,167 --> 02:01:04,666
or whatever it is. I'm not sure what the hours

1207
02:01:04,706 --> 02:01:07,306
are, but they've been shrinking each contract. And those details

1208
02:01:07,407 --> 02:01:10,346
aren't in the staff report. They are in the contracts.

1209
02:01:10,346 --> 02:01:14,186
I do think that they should be publicly, uh, available.

1210
02:01:14,186 --> 02:01:16,986
And the last one is that, uh, all proposed locations

1211
02:01:17,087 --> 02:01:20,966
be subject to fire and bylaw compliance review. So, uh,

1212
02:01:21,087 --> 02:01:25,066
I heard yesterday that fire inspections have not been done

1213
02:01:26,127 --> 02:01:29,866
at these locations. And that 30 mattresses on a floor

1214
02:01:29,866 --> 02:01:33,146
is not something that they've seen and inspected. I may

1215
02:01:33,186 --> 02:01:36,186
have misunderstood that, but maybe if staff have anything to

1216
02:01:36,226 --> 02:01:38,426
add, this is the reason why I've added this in.

1217
02:01:40,566 --> 02:01:42,785
Is rather than me just send an email asking for

1218
02:01:43,126 --> 02:01:45,745
fire inspections that we just make it a matter of

1219
02:01:45,846 --> 02:01:53,966
course. Thank you. And, and I would have to confirm

1220
02:01:54,006 --> 02:02:00,511
with the chief on that. Because I don't understand the

1221
02:02:00,772 --> 02:02:03,071
context of what he said. So we would want to

1222
02:02:03,111 --> 02:02:08,451
confirm from London fire department. Okay. Thank you. And I

1223
02:02:08,451 --> 02:02:12,291
understand. And like I said, what I heard yesterday was

1224
02:02:12,392 --> 02:02:18,531
that, uh, and from a fireish official, but I may

1225
02:02:18,571 --> 02:02:21,251
have misunderstood. But I don't think it hurts to double

1226
02:02:21,272 --> 02:02:24,051
check, even if I misunderstood that, that if we have

1227
02:02:24,472 --> 02:02:27,411
30 mattresses or 25 mattresses are caught on the floor

1228
02:02:27,432 --> 02:02:32,211
of a basement or in a building that didn't have.

1229
02:02:33,614 --> 02:02:38,793
Isn't regulated for sleeping, um, I heard that the need

1230
02:02:38,793 --> 02:02:41,033
to be done for safety and nobody here wants to

1231
02:02:41,033 --> 02:02:43,193
be part of any kind of tragedy where we've got

1232
02:02:43,374 --> 02:02:47,513
a bunch of people where we haven't met complete fire

1233
02:02:47,614 --> 02:02:50,153
code inspections. It's one of the things we haven't really

1234
02:02:50,193 --> 02:02:53,353
talked about is the fact that emergency shelters, warming spaces,

1235
02:02:53,353 --> 02:02:57,833
all these locations, the, I'll confirm through you to staff.

1236
02:02:57,833 --> 02:03:00,713
There's no licensing requirements. There's no, you know, you have

1237
02:03:00,713 --> 02:03:03,193
to open up a coffee shop. Something the things you

1238
02:03:03,193 --> 02:03:06,073
need to do. But for these, my understanding is there's

1239
02:03:06,094 --> 02:03:11,033
no requirements for this type of, of, of thing that

1240
02:03:11,054 --> 02:03:13,673
usually would be required if you ran a boarding house

1241
02:03:13,694 --> 02:03:19,757
or something like that or a tendency arrangement. Mr. Maithers.

1242
02:03:21,635 --> 02:03:23,854
Three of your worship, I can confirm the specific license

1243
02:03:23,955 --> 02:03:28,359
related to these type operations. Yeah. So I don't see

1244
02:03:28,380 --> 02:03:31,959
any harm in making sure as a Council that we've

1245
02:03:31,959 --> 02:03:36,599
got, you know, fire inspected locations and that everything everybody's

1246
02:03:36,599 --> 02:03:39,959
safe and compliant. And so that's my reason for adding,

1247
02:03:39,959 --> 02:03:42,919
uh, that to the amendment today, uh, is just to

1248
02:03:42,940 --> 02:03:46,039
ensure that when we are bringing people in out of

1249
02:03:46,039 --> 02:03:48,839
the cold, that the fire inspectors have been there and

1250
02:03:48,879 --> 02:03:51,079
ensured that we've got a safe location for people to

1251
02:03:51,100 --> 02:03:57,079
stay. So it's simply knowing the location representing our, our

1252
02:03:57,119 --> 02:03:59,639
residents to ensure that, you know, if and when it

1253
02:03:59,639 --> 02:04:02,599
comes to any of our awards that we have a

1254
02:04:02,599 --> 02:04:05,799
say in it and that the public's involved, contracts transparent

1255
02:04:06,060 --> 02:04:10,519
and accountable to the public for taxpayer funding and fire

1256
02:04:10,559 --> 02:04:12,919
inspection and bylaws seems a pretty basic thing that any

1257
02:04:12,959 --> 02:04:14,839
one of us would want to support. But I leave

1258
02:04:14,879 --> 02:04:24,340
that to my colleagues. Okay. Um, we're on the asthmated

1259
02:04:24,380 --> 02:04:26,420
motion. I know Councillor Ploughs, I had you on the

1260
02:04:26,460 --> 02:04:28,740
original amended, but so if you want to go now,

1261
02:04:28,740 --> 02:04:33,697
you can. Go ahead. Thank you noting the Deputy Mare

1262
02:04:33,697 --> 02:04:37,057
also has his hand up. Uh, just ever so briefly.

1263
02:04:37,057 --> 02:04:40,337
Oh, and Councillor Fair too. Um, Eversa briefly, uh, threw

1264
02:04:40,377 --> 02:04:44,397
you to staff, um, looking at the motion specifically, uh,

1265
02:04:44,397 --> 02:04:50,657
for the timing of it, um, for the original part,

1266
02:04:50,657 --> 02:04:53,537
I, I, I'd all propose locations be subject to fire

1267
02:04:53,577 --> 02:04:55,937
and Bylaw compliance review and sign off by the appropriate

1268
02:04:56,038 --> 02:05:00,817
city officials prior to the execution of, uh, related contract.

1269
02:05:00,817 --> 02:05:05,457
Wondering about timing that perhaps the service provider will find

1270
02:05:05,497 --> 02:05:08,497
a building and need to do modifications to it to

1271
02:05:08,497 --> 02:05:11,217
make it appropriate for the purposes of a side contract,

1272
02:05:11,217 --> 02:05:12,577
but they don't have the money to do it until

1273
02:05:12,918 --> 02:05:16,017
side contract is executed. So I just feel some concerns

1274
02:05:16,057 --> 02:05:19,217
about the inspections that they can't inspect the work to

1275
02:05:19,257 --> 02:05:21,697
give the contract and they can't do the work until

1276
02:05:21,798 --> 02:05:24,577
they have the money from subcontract. Just looking through you

1277
02:05:24,617 --> 02:05:26,417
to staff for that, that one's just a process question

1278
02:05:26,598 --> 02:05:29,217
and I'm just having some concerns with it.

1279
02:05:38,988 --> 02:05:43,600
Mr. Dickens. Thank you worshipping through you. So there is

1280
02:05:43,640 --> 02:05:45,920
one property that's to be determined. I think what the

1281
02:05:45,941 --> 02:05:48,320
organisation is looking for is a commitment coming out of

1282
02:05:48,341 --> 02:05:51,200
today's meeting that there would be a funding allocation set

1283
02:05:51,240 --> 02:05:53,600
aside for them, which gives them the opportunity to go

1284
02:05:53,781 --> 02:05:56,720
and seek an appropriate location. Uh, and I think they're

1285
02:05:56,720 --> 02:05:59,360
aware of the context of the conversation today about where

1286
02:05:59,400 --> 02:06:03,340
that location might be. But also it would then, uh,

1287
02:06:03,541 --> 02:06:06,640
require that whatever this location is. It is safe and

1288
02:06:06,680 --> 02:06:10,640
suitable for the intended use. The other locations that are

1289
02:06:10,680 --> 02:06:14,320
in this report are spaces that are used now and

1290
02:06:14,320 --> 02:06:18,160
today. So the language being, uh, all proposed locations be

1291
02:06:18,160 --> 02:06:21,600
subject to fire inspection or sign off. These organisations already

1292
02:06:21,701 --> 02:06:25,999
have fire safety plans in place. Uh, the fire department

1293
02:06:26,039 --> 02:06:29,199
does visit, uh, from time to time. Uh, last year

1294
02:06:29,239 --> 02:06:31,439
when we ran Boyle, we, uh, we're using it for

1295
02:06:31,700 --> 02:06:33,999
a very different purpose than what it's intended. And the

1296
02:06:34,039 --> 02:06:36,479
fire department was very helpful in coming in doing a

1297
02:06:36,500 --> 02:06:40,399
walkthrough, giving us suggestions and recommendations. When we launched a

1298
02:06:40,580 --> 02:06:43,919
micromoder shelter site, which we have never done before in

1299
02:06:43,919 --> 02:06:46,959
a location that had never intended for that use, the

1300
02:06:47,140 --> 02:06:50,719
fire department was very instrumental in the site plan design,

1301
02:06:50,719 --> 02:06:54,559
doing walkthroughs and making suggestions and recommendations around our fire

1302
02:06:54,599 --> 02:06:58,299
safety plan. So, uh, yes, the timing may be, um,

1303
02:06:59,700 --> 02:07:03,039
complicated when you look at, uh, we need a confirmation

1304
02:07:03,039 --> 02:07:04,719
of funding. So we can go find a confirmation of

1305
02:07:04,740 --> 02:07:07,399
space. We need it to be a suitable space. So

1306
02:07:07,399 --> 02:07:10,479
we can execute that lease agreement. Um, but here we

1307
02:07:10,479 --> 02:07:12,039
are. And I think that's a reality. We're going to

1308
02:07:12,039 --> 02:07:14,959
have to manage the best as we can. And then,

1309
02:07:14,959 --> 02:07:18,399
uh, when all the, uh, agreements are executed, uh, we

1310
02:07:18,439 --> 02:07:21,599
would certainly bring all of those agreements forward, uh, at

1311
02:07:21,599 --> 02:07:28,345
one time to committee. Go ahead. Uh, thank you. Uh,

1312
02:07:28,386 --> 02:07:32,285
I'm fine with, uh, part, uh, part I with the

1313
02:07:32,306 --> 02:07:36,045
reports being public, uh, afterwards. I still have concerns about

1314
02:07:36,306 --> 02:07:38,605
I that if we pass it based on the public

1315
02:07:38,786 --> 02:07:41,225
perception of what they think is going to happen, um,

1316
02:07:41,586 --> 02:07:44,125
and what actually happens might be different or that at

1317
02:07:44,125 --> 02:07:47,725
that time when things are getting implemented, timeline. It might

1318
02:07:47,765 --> 02:07:50,765
be a different council here. Not sure of what parameters

1319
02:07:50,786 --> 02:07:54,045
we set. So those are my main concerns about that.

1320
02:07:54,045 --> 02:07:55,645
And just want to thank the surface provider for watching

1321
02:07:55,906 --> 02:07:59,572
in person today. And joining us. Great. And you said

1322
02:07:59,612 --> 02:08:03,866
Councillor Hillier had his hand up or no. Oh. Oh.

1323
02:08:03,906 --> 02:08:07,386
Okay. I didn't. Oh, David. Okay. Perfect. Um, go ahead,

1324
02:08:07,386 --> 02:08:12,523
Deborah Lewis and then Council Farra. Thank you, Chair. And

1325
02:08:12,523 --> 02:08:15,743
through you, uh, as I said, I'd like item one

1326
02:08:15,924 --> 02:08:20,863
pulled separately, uh, because I believe it actually presents a

1327
02:08:20,903 --> 02:08:23,583
timing problem as well, similar to what Councillor Plosa was

1328
02:08:23,623 --> 02:08:26,223
referencing on, on the fire inspection. So through you to

1329
02:08:26,244 --> 02:08:30,943
staff, uh, the last meeting of this Council is October

1330
02:08:31,284 --> 02:08:37,122
14th, I believe. The new Council does not meet again,

1331
02:08:37,122 --> 02:08:41,704
uh, until late into November. Uh, subjecting this to Council

1332
02:08:41,744 --> 02:08:47,464
approval, uh, from a timeline perspective, uh, be a barrier

1333
02:08:47,645 --> 02:08:56,274
to implementing this for the beginning of December. Dickens. Thank

1334
02:08:56,274 --> 02:08:59,234
you. Your worship and through with the Deputy Mayor is

1335
02:08:59,234 --> 02:09:02,194
highlighting is real world challenges. So the way it's laid

1336
02:09:02,194 --> 02:09:05,474
out and to our understanding and correct us, if civic

1337
02:09:05,514 --> 02:09:12,114
administration has us wrong, um, the organisation would, uh, receive,

1338
02:09:12,114 --> 02:09:15,554
uh, decision today that there's funding that is allocated to

1339
02:09:15,594 --> 02:09:19,554
them. They would then use that, um, understanding that they

1340
02:09:19,554 --> 02:09:22,754
have funding available to go and secure to the best

1341
02:09:22,855 --> 02:09:26,611
of their ability, a location. But that location that they

1342
02:09:26,651 --> 02:09:30,131
find would need to come back to committee, uh, for

1343
02:09:30,131 --> 02:09:32,771
it to be discussed and debated a committee and council

1344
02:09:33,032 --> 02:09:36,051
for Council to agree on that location being the right

1345
02:09:36,072 --> 02:09:39,571
location. Uh, only then would we be able to then

1346
02:09:39,672 --> 02:09:44,531
enter into, uh, an agreement to have the organisation provide

1347
02:09:44,712 --> 02:09:47,996
the service in that location. Noting we can't execute the

1348
02:09:48,017 --> 02:09:51,836
agreement until the fire inspection and any other applicable sign

1349
02:09:51,876 --> 02:09:54,876
off. Um, when you look at it from that perspective

1350
02:09:55,297 --> 02:09:57,436
of here's the money, go find a location. If you

1351
02:09:57,476 --> 02:10:01,116
find a location, we'll take it to Council of Council.

1352
02:10:01,116 --> 02:10:03,596
OKs the location. Then we'll have fire and Bylaw. And

1353
02:10:03,596 --> 02:10:07,160
then we'll execute the agreement. It's going to create a

1354
02:10:07,160 --> 02:10:09,480
real problem for the organisation on when do you start

1355
02:10:09,741 --> 02:10:12,520
to recruit staff? Uh, when do you start to train

1356
02:10:13,181 --> 02:10:16,740
any new staff you may hire? Uh, when do you

1357
02:10:16,740 --> 02:10:20,400
make sure that the space is suitable for occupancy. So

1358
02:10:20,781 --> 02:10:23,880
long story long, uh, absolutely. This is going to push

1359
02:10:23,920 --> 02:10:26,200
us well into the winter. And we try to our

1360
02:10:26,200 --> 02:10:29,160
best to come to you, uh, before summer really kicked

1361
02:10:29,200 --> 02:10:33,301
off so that we wouldn't be in this position. Thank

1362
02:10:33,301 --> 02:10:36,181
you. And that's my concern. We're talking about one location.

1363
02:10:38,238 --> 02:10:43,482
Uh, we're talking about, uh. Six week window at the

1364
02:10:43,583 --> 02:10:47,942
most for that location to not only be identified, but

1365
02:10:47,942 --> 02:10:50,122
then come back through a committee and Council cycle for

1366
02:10:50,223 --> 02:10:54,522
our approval. And assuming that it's not referred at Council

1367
02:10:54,543 --> 02:10:56,522
and Committee because we want to look for a different

1368
02:10:56,562 --> 02:11:00,434
location again. Then we're talking at the earliest. Council could

1369
02:11:00,455 --> 02:11:03,714
approve a location being the new Council on the 24th

1370
02:11:03,714 --> 02:11:08,337
of November. Uh, for a winter response that, uh, is

1371
02:11:08,377 --> 02:11:12,172
supposed to start on December 1st. So I can't support

1372
02:11:12,433 --> 02:11:16,798
part one. Uh, I think that our staff have demonstrated,

1373
02:11:16,798 --> 02:11:19,118
uh, that they listen. I think we saw that with

1374
02:11:19,139 --> 02:11:21,118
the micro modular site when they came back with a

1375
02:11:21,158 --> 02:11:24,238
location, uh, that they will do their best to work

1376
02:11:24,238 --> 02:11:27,118
with our service partners, uh, but we do have limited

1377
02:11:27,139 --> 02:11:31,870
options here. And we are also on a time crunch.

1378
02:11:31,870 --> 02:11:36,430
And we have repeatedly heard from the public. We've had

1379
02:11:36,451 --> 02:11:40,510
a discussion around this horseshoe. It's certainly been a discussion

1380
02:11:40,510 --> 02:11:43,710
in the media in years past. Why is this not

1381
02:11:43,891 --> 02:11:48,030
happening sooner? Why are we not opening beds until January.

1382
02:11:48,669 --> 02:11:53,343
This proposal is to open beds in December. And in

1383
02:11:53,343 --> 02:11:56,863
November 24th, deadline for Council Approval is simply not enough

1384
02:11:56,884 --> 02:11:59,263
time to do that. So I can't support section one

1385
02:11:59,684 --> 02:12:03,423
of this. I do think that bringing back the public

1386
02:12:03,463 --> 02:12:08,223
information on the contracts on an agenda, um, that's fine.

1387
02:12:10,084 --> 02:12:12,303
It's just to me, it's a transparency piece. That's fine.

1388
02:12:12,804 --> 02:12:16,063
Um, working with the fire and By - law compliance.

1389
02:12:16,063 --> 02:12:17,423
I mean, we've heard Mr. Dickins say that would be

1390
02:12:17,423 --> 02:12:20,143
part of the process anyway. So I'm okay with parts

1391
02:12:20,564 --> 02:12:23,651
two and three. Uh, but I need part one called

1392
02:12:23,672 --> 02:12:25,811
separately because I don't believe that that is a realistic

1393
02:12:25,912 --> 02:12:29,571
timeline, uh, for Council to make approvals on a location.

1394
02:12:35,082 --> 02:12:40,379
I have Councillor Ferreira and then Councillor Hopkins. Thanks, Mayor,

1395
02:12:40,379 --> 02:12:44,219
through you. Um, yeah, I agree with Deputy Mayer on

1396
02:12:44,240 --> 02:12:47,259
part one. Everything that he said there. Um, you know,

1397
02:12:47,360 --> 02:12:50,459
the location is definitely going to be, and always is

1398
02:12:50,640 --> 02:12:53,579
the biggest discussion point. It's not, not necessarily the money

1399
02:12:53,760 --> 02:12:55,819
or the funds or the location of the source. It's

1400
02:12:55,819 --> 02:13:04,754
the location. Of the, of the, of where the facility

1401
02:13:04,855 --> 02:13:06,914
or where the service will be provided. So I'm not

1402
02:13:07,015 --> 02:13:08,354
going to be voting for that. And I think that

1403
02:13:08,375 --> 02:13:10,914
that this will push us into a really tight crunch

1404
02:13:10,935 --> 02:13:14,754
time and could lead to, um, situations that may not

1405
02:13:14,855 --> 02:13:18,754
be within our favor within the city, the greater cities'favor.

1406
02:13:18,754 --> 02:13:21,954
So I'm going to be voting against, uh, part I.

1407
02:13:23,187 --> 02:13:25,566
S the contracts. Yeah. I think I agree as well.

1408
02:13:25,606 --> 02:13:28,766
It's a transparency piece. So I'll be supporting that part

1409
02:13:28,947 --> 02:13:31,966
three. Now I do understand, especially from Councillor Peloso's questions

1410
02:13:31,987 --> 02:13:35,237
that we already do this. So, uh, I feel like

1411
02:13:35,277 --> 02:13:37,597
it's a little redundant because we do do this. I

1412
02:13:37,597 --> 02:13:40,517
have seen, I've had, had, have, had these questions with

1413
02:13:40,557 --> 02:13:44,037
staff prior in our past responses and the staff have

1414
02:13:44,058 --> 02:13:47,237
answered me that yes, we do, we do this work.

1415
02:13:47,237 --> 02:13:48,437
So I'm not going to be supporting that because that

1416
02:13:48,538 --> 02:13:50,197
is already done and I'm worried about the perception of

1417
02:13:50,237 --> 02:13:52,357
the public that it may show that we haven't done

1418
02:13:52,357 --> 02:13:55,297
this before, but this is exactly what we do. Um,

1419
02:13:55,297 --> 02:13:58,437
and then, um, with the Council Rahman's motion, like I

1420
02:13:58,437 --> 02:14:01,237
said, I'm going to be supporting that. And I won't

1421
02:14:01,258 --> 02:14:02,917
be moving my amendment now. I'm going to move it

1422
02:14:02,917 --> 02:14:05,637
on the main motion. So, um, so those are, those

1423
02:14:05,677 --> 02:14:14,612
are my comments. Councillor Hopkins. Yeah. Thank you. Your worship.

1424
02:14:14,612 --> 02:14:17,412
And I want to thank the, um, Award Councillor's advocacy

1425
02:14:17,673 --> 02:14:21,172
for her work in the community. Uh, but I won't

1426
02:14:21,212 --> 02:14:25,812
be supporting, um, the motion. I in particular the ever

1427
02:14:26,473 --> 02:14:29,172
two parts of it. I don't want to get into

1428
02:14:29,353 --> 02:14:32,272
the weeds. I'm pretty sure we already do it. I'm

1429
02:14:32,473 --> 02:14:35,928
satisfied with that. But being on the committee when this

1430
02:14:36,749 --> 02:14:40,488
winter response report came to us, I was so pleased

1431
02:14:40,749 --> 02:14:43,208
that we were getting ahead of the curve a little

1432
02:14:43,208 --> 02:14:47,128
bit when it came to making decisions for our winter

1433
02:14:47,149 --> 02:14:50,248
response program. I think we've all seen this throughout the

1434
02:14:50,429 --> 02:14:54,088
past number of years. We're always doing catch up. We're

1435
02:14:54,088 --> 02:14:57,928
always trying to make decisions as the snow starts to

1436
02:14:57,949 --> 02:15:00,408
fall. So there is no way I'm going to get

1437
02:15:00,408 --> 02:15:03,928
in the way of making decisions to move forward with

1438
02:15:03,968 --> 02:15:07,368
our winter response program. And that's the main reason why

1439
02:15:07,469 --> 02:15:10,888
I won't be supporting eye. So if that could be

1440
02:15:10,928 --> 02:15:19,572
pulled and again those are my comments. Other speakers

1441
02:15:20,793 --> 02:15:25,180
to the amend of amendment Council Troso. I'll make this

1442
02:15:25,220 --> 02:15:27,500
short because, um, through the chair, I'm going to repeat

1443
02:15:27,540 --> 02:15:29,820
a lot of the things that others, including the Deputy

1444
02:15:29,921 --> 02:15:34,988
Mayor. Have said part one absolutely not that will get

1445
02:15:35,009 --> 02:15:39,308
in our way. Part two, my senses, those are going

1446
02:15:39,308 --> 02:15:42,108
to be available anyway, but sure, let's, let's, let's put

1447
02:15:42,108 --> 02:15:45,148
that in there. Um, part three, I'm going to not

1448
02:15:45,148 --> 02:15:48,128
vote for because it suggests that, um, well, let me

1449
02:15:48,128 --> 02:15:51,468
put this in the form of a question. We're enacting

1450
02:15:51,569 --> 02:15:55,068
that all proposed locations be subject to fire and Bylaw

1451
02:15:55,068 --> 02:16:00,794
compliance review in sign - off. Without this passing, without

1452
02:16:00,794 --> 02:16:05,354
that clause passing, aren't these properties subject to such compliance

1453
02:16:05,455 --> 02:16:10,474
and review anyway? And I hear, could somebody say yes?

1454
02:16:10,655 --> 02:16:12,954
No, we'll have staff responding. Okay. I'm sorry. They're just

1455
02:16:12,954 --> 02:16:14,394
shaking their heads in. No, I'm going to have them

1456
02:16:14,735 --> 02:16:24,007
respond if that's your request. Go ahead, Mr. Mayors. Through

1457
02:16:24,007 --> 02:16:26,407
your worship, absolutely that's accurate. It would apply to all

1458
02:16:26,828 --> 02:16:32,536
premises in the City of London. So, um, this is

1459
02:16:32,637 --> 02:16:37,336
clearly redundant. And I think it's also a little bit,

1460
02:16:37,336 --> 02:16:39,576
it's calling into a question whether or not this is

1461
02:16:39,576 --> 02:16:42,036
going to happen. This is, it's not only redundant, but

1462
02:16:42,637 --> 02:16:45,376
it's, it suggests that it's necessary and it's not. So

1463
02:16:45,837 --> 02:16:48,836
I absolutely am not going to vote for three. And

1464
02:16:48,836 --> 02:16:54,376
I think with that, um, yeah, I'll support part two,

1465
02:16:54,376 --> 02:16:58,696
but I think that's, this whole thing's pretty superfluous. But,

1466
02:16:58,696 --> 02:17:01,496
um, let's just get on with it. And, um, I'm

1467
02:17:01,517 --> 02:17:04,777
glad that the whole thing is moving along. Taking a

1468
02:17:04,777 --> 02:17:08,537
little longer than I would have liked. But all in

1469
02:17:08,537 --> 02:17:12,217
all, I think some really good work has been some

1470
02:17:12,238 --> 02:17:15,397
really good work has been done here under very, um,

1471
02:17:15,598 --> 02:17:20,057
difficult circumstances. So that, that's that in terms of the,

1472
02:17:20,057 --> 02:17:25,557
uh, Council Ramen's amendment that passed is, is that, did

1473
02:17:25,557 --> 02:17:27,257
I cover that that's I already said I was supporting

1474
02:17:27,998 --> 02:17:29,977
that. Is that, is that a separate number or is

1475
02:17:30,017 --> 02:17:30,617
that under two.

1476
02:17:40,968 --> 02:17:43,347
Okay. Given what everybody said, Councillor, yes, it's part of

1477
02:17:43,347 --> 02:17:45,427
the azimut emotion, but these, all these pieces are going

1478
02:17:45,427 --> 02:17:49,894
to be voted on separately now. Because pretty much everybody's

1479
02:17:49,915 --> 02:17:52,767
asked to have them all pulled apart. So. I'm done.

1480
02:17:52,767 --> 02:18:01,151
Thank you. Okay. Other speakers.

1481
02:18:06,663 --> 02:18:16,486
Okay. So, um. Okay. So we're going to

1482
02:18:16,627 --> 02:18:19,965
vote on these. We're going to vote on them in

1483
02:18:20,066 --> 02:18:23,325
just order, uh, sorry, I, I, I, I and I

1484
02:18:23,346 --> 02:18:29,640
V. And we'll do them in that order. And then

1485
02:18:29,741 --> 02:18:32,020
we'll just proceed with each of the votes individually. And

1486
02:18:32,020 --> 02:18:37,080
then I'll need a mover, assuming one part passes for

1487
02:18:37,120 --> 02:18:39,640
the as amended main motion. And we'll be back to

1488
02:18:39,640 --> 02:18:43,291
that as amended. Okay. So we're going to open part

1489
02:18:43,472 --> 02:18:44,331
i first for voting.

1490
02:19:25,177 --> 02:19:29,636
Motion carries five to 10. Sorry. Motion fails five to

1491
02:19:29,676 --> 02:19:32,604
10. It's like, that'd be a different way of doing

1492
02:19:32,644 --> 02:19:39,195
things. It's, uh. Okay. So I, so that one fails,

1493
02:19:39,195 --> 02:19:41,275
uh, as an amendment, um, we're going on to II

1494
02:19:41,275 --> 02:19:41,355
now.

1495
02:20:23,222 --> 02:20:33,210
Council Ketty. Noting verbal vote of yes. Closing the vote.

1496
02:20:34,330 --> 02:20:40,851
Motion carries. 15 to zero. Okay. And now I, I,

1497
02:20:40,891 --> 02:20:42,782
I. Ll open that for voting.

1498
02:21:11,066 --> 02:21:19,189
Councillor. Apologies. My eScribe's not working. I vote no.

1499
02:21:21,397 --> 02:21:25,864
Verbal vote. Note is noted. Closing the vote motion carries

1500
02:21:26,605 --> 02:21:32,166
10 to five. Okay. And now I V.

1501
02:21:47,404 --> 02:21:50,049
Votes, yes. No, to thank you.

1502
02:21:59,280 --> 02:22:03,541
Closing the vote. Motion carries 14 to one.

1503
02:22:27,602 --> 02:22:30,941
Okay. I now need a mover for the as amended

1504
02:22:30,981 --> 02:22:34,541
main motion Councillor Romans willing to move it. Councillor Ploza's

1505
02:22:34,541 --> 02:22:37,661
willing to second it. Um, which includes all the changes

1506
02:22:37,701 --> 02:22:41,328
we made with the exception of I. Okay. We're back

1507
02:22:41,368 --> 02:22:44,128
to the main motion, but it's as amended. So I

1508
02:22:44,128 --> 02:22:49,793
will start the speaker's list. Go ahead, Councillor Stevenson. Thank

1509
02:22:49,793 --> 02:22:51,633
you and thank you, colleagues. I know this has been

1510
02:22:52,534 --> 02:23:02,206
long. Um. But this is, um. You know, this

1511
02:23:02,246 --> 02:23:06,606
impacts my ward dramatically. And when we had the issues

1512
02:23:06,627 --> 02:23:11,726
on Richmond Street, those were dealt with the issues on

1513
02:23:11,766 --> 02:23:16,652
DUNDAS East or not being dealt with. And this isn't

1514
02:23:16,673 --> 02:23:20,172
about no one said anything about moving organisations who own

1515
02:23:20,273 --> 02:23:24,012
property. I was very clear that we just not use

1516
02:23:24,273 --> 02:23:28,412
taxpayer funded money to provide the services there. I have

1517
02:23:28,452 --> 02:23:31,532
never said that we as a council need to move

1518
02:23:31,873 --> 02:23:36,332
charitable organisations who own property. It's about what we are

1519
02:23:36,332 --> 02:23:41,216
doing here as a Council that we are funding. What

1520
02:23:41,216 --> 02:23:46,096
many in that area believe is a large part of

1521
02:23:46,136 --> 02:23:51,136
the problem. It's not 24 - 7. You can't compare,

1522
02:23:51,136 --> 02:23:53,056
we're comparing apples and oranges when we talk about different

1523
02:23:53,237 --> 02:23:57,376
shelters. These are not 24 - 7 spaces. These are

1524
02:23:57,877 --> 02:24:01,136
come and go, or they're just overnight and then out

1525
02:24:01,157 --> 02:24:04,336
onto the street during the day. Or it's just in

1526
02:24:04,336 --> 02:24:07,688
for a meal and then out. So I just want

1527
02:24:07,688 --> 02:24:10,088
to, I need to confirm through you to staff when

1528
02:24:10,109 --> 02:24:13,870
we talk about warming spaces. Are these tables and chairs

1529
02:24:14,051 --> 02:24:17,150
where people are sitting and coming and going throughout the

1530
02:24:17,171 --> 02:24:20,590
night or are these mattresses or caughts where people are

1531
02:24:20,771 --> 02:24:29,472
sleeping? Or does it vary based on location? Okay. You

1532
02:24:29,472 --> 02:24:36,394
whisp. In my. Go ahead, Mr. Dickens. Uh, thank you,

1533
02:24:36,394 --> 02:24:41,274
your worshiping through you. Um, this is really more, uh,

1534
02:24:41,315 --> 02:24:45,374
warming spaces. So tables, chairs, blankets, very similar to what

1535
02:24:45,414 --> 02:24:49,774
we provided at, uh, Boyle, where we created space for

1536
02:24:49,814 --> 02:24:54,094
people to come in. People, well, absolutely reshift their belongings

1537
02:24:54,275 --> 02:24:58,654
and create, makeshift, uh, sleep areas. Um, but this is,

1538
02:24:58,654 --> 02:25:01,614
this is really more creating indoor space for people to

1539
02:25:01,654 --> 02:25:03,674
come in out of the, out of the cold, uh,

1540
02:25:03,955 --> 02:25:06,014
and stay warm throughout the night. And those that choose

1541
02:25:06,035 --> 02:25:08,894
to sleep can and those that donor supported in other

1542
02:25:08,894 --> 02:25:13,345
ways. Councillor Stevenson. Uh, thank you. Those who choose to

1543
02:25:13,446 --> 02:25:19,159
sleep at the table is 17 minutes. Mr. Dickens. Through

1544
02:25:19,180 --> 02:25:21,399
your worship, yes, that's quite common. People come in quite

1545
02:25:21,439 --> 02:25:24,839
exhausted and we'll often sit at a table, lay their

1546
02:25:24,839 --> 02:25:29,159
head down, uh, get some sleep. Or some will curl

1547
02:25:29,159 --> 02:25:32,119
up on the floors. They did in boil, finding a

1548
02:25:32,119 --> 02:25:36,420
quiet spot wherever they can. Councillor Stevenson. Yeah. Thank you

1549
02:25:36,420 --> 02:25:38,900
for the clarification. So I just want to confirm then

1550
02:25:38,940 --> 02:25:48,260
that the 30 spaces at Undundas Street, the 30, well,

1551
02:25:48,260 --> 02:25:50,340
it's really the 30 on dendust street, I guess, because

1552
02:25:50,361 --> 02:25:53,140
London cares. I want to confirm that all those warming

1553
02:25:53,140 --> 02:25:56,180
spaces then will not have caught or mattresses. It will

1554
02:25:56,180 --> 02:25:58,800
be table and chairs. I think it was confirmed, but

1555
02:25:58,800 --> 02:26:04,189
I'm just not sure. Mr. Dickens. Through your worship. Pause

1556
02:26:04,189 --> 02:26:06,109
for not having every detail on what some of these

1557
02:26:06,130 --> 02:26:08,909
spaces are going to be using at the end state

1558
02:26:09,650 --> 02:26:13,069
based on what's proposed. But, uh, for example, one provider,

1559
02:26:13,069 --> 02:26:16,349
uh, uses gravity chairs. Zero gravity chairs. So folks can

1560
02:26:16,450 --> 02:26:20,909
recline. Um, others will use, I don't know, normal chairs,

1561
02:26:20,909 --> 02:26:22,749
uh, like we did at Boil. So it'll be a

1562
02:26:22,749 --> 02:26:26,189
combination. We're not seeing any bed frames or anything set

1563
02:26:26,229 --> 02:26:30,669
up like that. Uh, they're, um, it's primarily, uh, some

1564
02:26:30,709 --> 02:26:34,109
form of, uh, of seeding, uh, the folks can use

1565
02:26:34,530 --> 02:26:38,790
to rest. Councillor Stevenson. Yeah. Thank you. And I don't

1566
02:26:38,790 --> 02:26:43,670
mean to belabor it at 696 DUNDAS what I thought

1567
02:26:44,091 --> 02:26:49,390
happened there were mattresses were caught. Is this going to

1568
02:26:49,390 --> 02:26:53,430
be a change where 696 10S will no longer have,

1569
02:26:53,430 --> 02:26:56,710
um, the sleeping beds, if you call them, I mean,

1570
02:26:56,710 --> 02:26:59,350
they're not beds here, but will they be, is this

1571
02:26:59,350 --> 02:27:01,110
a change that now it will be table and chairs

1572
02:27:01,131 --> 02:27:06,002
at that location. Mr. Dickens. Uh, three year worship. The

1573
02:27:06,043 --> 02:27:09,782
organisation at 696 DUNDAS uses zero gravity chairs and they

1574
02:27:09,782 --> 02:27:14,462
may have, um, like some nylon cots perhaps. Like we

1575
02:27:14,603 --> 02:27:17,702
have in our emergency response that we used at THOC,

1576
02:27:17,702 --> 02:27:20,582
uh, two years prior. Um, I do not believe that

1577
02:27:20,622 --> 02:27:28,306
that organisation uses mattresses though. There's no mattresses. Okay. Thank

1578
02:27:28,346 --> 02:27:29,186
you. So.

1579
02:27:40,535 --> 02:27:43,154
There's a bunch of problems that I have with this.

1580
02:27:43,730 --> 02:27:46,829
And it is that in the very end of our

1581
02:27:46,850 --> 02:27:51,229
term, we still have so many of these spaces within

1582
02:27:51,490 --> 02:27:57,878
a very short distance. Many of them, all of the

1583
02:27:57,899 --> 02:28:05,548
identified. Warming spaces. Are within a few blockadius. They're not

1584
02:28:06,049 --> 02:28:10,168
24 seven. They're going to be come and go, uh,

1585
02:28:10,769 --> 02:28:12,428
you know, people to get warm and then go back

1586
02:28:12,449 --> 02:28:16,424
out again. Into the neighbourhood and into the business district.

1587
02:28:17,817 --> 02:28:20,116
The biggest concern that I have with this is that

1588
02:28:20,116 --> 02:28:23,076
we're talking about multi - year budget proposals and about

1589
02:28:23,097 --> 02:28:30,491
extending this incontinuity. This has been very clearly stated to

1590
02:28:30,531 --> 02:28:39,164
be unsustainable for that neighbourhood. And when we look at

1591
02:28:39,204 --> 02:28:41,804
these things, none of us want to see people outside

1592
02:28:41,985 --> 02:28:44,844
in the cold, which is why I have supported those

1593
02:28:45,345 --> 02:28:49,224
spaces in the past. But we have to address the

1594
02:28:49,325 --> 02:28:55,085
issues in that area. And to be continuing to just

1595
02:28:55,186 --> 02:29:00,025
say to one community, sorry too bad, uh, this, you

1596
02:29:00,025 --> 02:29:03,988
know, this is the best we can do. It's just

1597
02:29:04,009 --> 02:29:07,108
unacceptable for many who live in that area and who

1598
02:29:07,529 --> 02:29:11,988
are experiencing this on a day in day out basis.

1599
02:29:11,988 --> 02:29:16,038
Many of whom are vulnerable themselves. We tried to do

1600
02:29:16,078 --> 02:29:19,398
a good neighbour agreement. That was just, uh, not even

1601
02:29:19,579 --> 02:29:22,838
considered by these agencies. In fact, they saw it as

1602
02:29:22,838 --> 02:29:27,209
some sort of an insult. And now we're talking about

1603
02:29:27,710 --> 02:29:33,018
allowing illegal substances inside. Into these neighbourhoods, into these business

1604
02:29:33,359 --> 02:29:37,129
districts. So I'm going to have trouble supporting a good

1605
02:29:37,470 --> 02:29:40,409
portion of this. Um, I do want to reiterate that

1606
02:29:40,910 --> 02:29:44,469
the, um, the thing with the resting spaces, this was

1607
02:29:44,510 --> 02:29:47,849
not about telling organisations they need to move. This was

1608
02:29:47,849 --> 02:29:52,069
about respecting the wishes of the taxpayers to say, uh,

1609
02:29:52,270 --> 02:29:55,289
please don't do it on a business district. Main Street

1610
02:29:55,790 --> 02:30:00,409
where it competes with what this Council has, um, has

1611
02:30:00,449 --> 02:30:03,529
said that matters. And we're asking these property owners to

1612
02:30:03,529 --> 02:30:05,689
pay a levy. And yet, what are we doing for

1613
02:30:05,729 --> 02:30:08,649
them? We have core area vacancy issues. And yet we

1614
02:30:08,750 --> 02:30:12,009
continue to move motions like this now with multi your

1615
02:30:12,049 --> 02:30:15,610
budgets and continuity issues. So I'll be asking for some

1616
02:30:15,650 --> 02:30:25,258
of these to be called separately. Councillor McAllister. Thank you.

1617
02:30:25,258 --> 02:30:27,818
And through the mayor, I do have an amendment for

1618
02:30:28,319 --> 02:30:35,074
E. Can read that if you like. Oh, yes, please.

1619
02:30:35,175 --> 02:30:38,914
Okay. So this is on part E Civic Administration be

1620
02:30:38,914 --> 02:30:41,714
directed to proceed with the preparation of a business case

1621
02:30:41,815 --> 02:30:45,074
for the 2027 annual budget update for winter response funding

1622
02:30:45,575 --> 02:30:50,594
for 2027 to 2028 and beyond. One slight edition is

1623
02:30:50,775 --> 02:30:55,314
including but not limited to potential property acquisitions to accommodate

1624
02:30:55,575 --> 02:30:58,434
future shelter locations outside of ward one and 13.

1625
02:31:05,609 --> 02:31:09,896
Okay. Just give me one sec. All right. That's a

1626
02:31:09,896 --> 02:31:17,472
knee scribe. I look for a second to that. I

1627
02:31:17,472 --> 02:31:23,162
don't see a seconder for your motion, Councillor. Okay. Um,

1628
02:31:23,423 --> 02:31:26,122
I'll use this time then for my comments. Um, what

1629
02:31:26,143 --> 02:31:28,522
I was suggesting with my amendment was in no way

1630
02:31:28,783 --> 02:31:31,962
a prohibition, uh, it was to my earlier point that

1631
02:31:32,303 --> 02:31:35,162
we are not being presented with options outside of the

1632
02:31:35,423 --> 02:31:38,202
two wards. Um, that was also in keeping in mind

1633
02:31:38,242 --> 02:31:41,402
that Lord I would then grow to accommodate OEV. That's

1634
02:31:41,402 --> 02:31:44,122
why it said word one 13, which do currently have

1635
02:31:44,223 --> 02:31:49,304
all of our, uh, shelters. I would still hope that,

1636
02:31:49,304 --> 02:31:52,024
uh, future councils would take that into consideration. I think

1637
02:31:52,125 --> 02:31:54,984
it would have been appropriate for this Council to have

1638
02:31:55,024 --> 02:31:57,704
put some, um, options in terms of property acquisitions on

1639
02:31:57,704 --> 02:32:00,024
the table. We hear that time and time again from

1640
02:32:00,445 --> 02:32:04,184
shelter providers. I think obviously the province has the role

1641
02:32:04,224 --> 02:32:07,064
to play. I had earlier, um, brought four to motion

1642
02:32:07,104 --> 02:32:10,084
to ask the province for more money for that. Um,

1643
02:32:10,084 --> 02:32:11,784
I do think the city we have a role to

1644
02:32:11,824 --> 02:32:14,704
play though in property acquisitions outside. I don't want to

1645
02:32:14,704 --> 02:32:16,904
say the core area because I think, uh, it extends

1646
02:32:17,085 --> 02:32:19,624
past the core area. Um, but I do think there

1647
02:32:19,624 --> 02:32:22,664
are in the future two awards that will be predominantly

1648
02:32:22,685 --> 02:32:26,327
impacted. In terms of what we have for for us,

1649
02:32:26,327 --> 02:32:28,327
um, I know last winter was very challenging. I think

1650
02:32:28,428 --> 02:32:32,567
staff have done their best to create something, um, that

1651
02:32:32,908 --> 02:32:35,287
will serve us in the short term. But again, I

1652
02:32:35,287 --> 02:32:37,687
am looking more to the future in terms of what

1653
02:32:38,188 --> 02:32:42,247
a sustained, um, shelter, um, system will look like through

1654
02:32:42,247 --> 02:32:46,407
the future winters. Um, I think it's disappointing. This Council

1655
02:32:46,428 --> 02:32:50,247
is not willing to consider other options, uh, because it

1656
02:32:50,247 --> 02:32:52,087
leads me to believe that they would like to keep

1657
02:32:52,108 --> 02:32:54,487
them in the same areas, which I don't think is

1658
02:32:54,508 --> 02:32:57,379
particularly fair, but that's just my opinion. Um, I think

1659
02:32:57,400 --> 02:32:59,939
what's before us is the best that we can hope

1660
02:32:59,960 --> 02:33:02,579
for right now. Um, I will support it. Um, but

1661
02:33:02,680 --> 02:33:06,579
I do hope with future considerations, um, not just as

1662
02:33:06,619 --> 02:33:10,099
Council, ex Council, um, really do take, um, the words

1663
02:33:10,099 --> 02:33:13,219
of the words that are being impacted seriously. They have

1664
02:33:13,219 --> 02:33:15,379
done their part. And I think other awards need to

1665
02:33:15,419 --> 02:33:25,122
step up. Thank you. Councillor Frank. Thank

1666
02:33:25,162 --> 02:33:26,802
you. I just want to take a quick moment to

1667
02:33:27,063 --> 02:33:28,882
thank staff for getting this work done well ahead of

1668
02:33:28,922 --> 02:33:31,522
winter. Most of the residents I speak with in my

1669
02:33:31,522 --> 02:33:33,842
area, uh, the main priority for them was making sure

1670
02:33:33,882 --> 02:33:37,042
that people are inside over winter and making sure it's

1671
02:33:37,042 --> 02:33:40,162
done well in advance so that we are not kind

1672
02:33:40,162 --> 02:33:42,322
of scrambling around in November and December to lock up

1673
02:33:42,362 --> 02:33:44,802
some spots. So I just want to say thank you.

1674
02:33:44,802 --> 02:33:47,202
I, um, I've already heard from residents that they're really

1675
02:33:47,202 --> 02:33:48,942
happy to see us being done in the summer. And

1676
02:33:48,942 --> 02:33:51,202
I also am really happy we're moving away from a

1677
02:33:51,202 --> 02:33:54,642
temperature - based approach to every single night from 9

1678
02:33:54,682 --> 02:33:57,842
p. m. to 9 a. m. throughout the winter months.

1679
02:33:57,842 --> 02:33:59,122
Uh, I think that it's really great that we don't

1680
02:33:59,122 --> 02:34:01,522
have this threshold to try and meet because it did

1681
02:34:01,783 --> 02:34:06,162
create some confusion. Uh, I also want to thank staff

1682
02:34:06,183 --> 02:34:08,882
for working with the agencies to increase the overall number

1683
02:34:08,903 --> 02:34:11,762
of spaces for people to come inside. Uh, I think

1684
02:34:11,762 --> 02:34:14,322
we saw, especially with the Boyle Community Centre that we

1685
02:34:14,423 --> 02:34:19,362
were exceeding expectations and unfortunately, um, until I see otherwise,

1686
02:34:19,362 --> 02:34:21,282
I think we might be in a similar boat this

1687
02:34:21,322 --> 02:34:24,962
winter. Uh, and just as well to our agencies, thank

1688
02:34:25,002 --> 02:34:27,442
you very much for being a great, uh, member of

1689
02:34:27,442 --> 02:34:29,442
our community and great partners to work with. We wouldn't

1690
02:34:29,442 --> 02:34:31,642
be able to do this work without you. So, uh,

1691
02:34:31,783 --> 02:34:33,922
I really appreciate the work that you do and that

1692
02:34:34,183 --> 02:34:36,562
your staff do. And I think ultimately we can all

1693
02:34:36,562 --> 02:34:38,482
agree that no one should have to sleep outside, especially

1694
02:34:38,663 --> 02:34:41,822
in the winter. Um, but until we have enough, uh,

1695
02:34:41,822 --> 02:34:45,282
apartments and units for everybody across the city, unfortunately, sometimes

1696
02:34:45,303 --> 02:34:50,362
we have to rely on emergency shelters and spaces. So

1697
02:34:50,362 --> 02:34:53,282
again, appreciate the work that staff and our community partners

1698
02:34:53,322 --> 02:35:02,920
are doing to bring this forward. Councillor. Thank you,

1699
02:35:02,920 --> 02:35:05,160
Mayor. Um, I guess I'm going to start with the

1700
02:35:05,200 --> 02:35:08,120
reason I didn't support or second that motion from Council

1701
02:35:08,160 --> 02:35:11,800
McAllister is it because I want to avoid any prescriptive

1702
02:35:11,821 --> 02:35:16,120
language that could, uh, be regarded as a battle of

1703
02:35:16,120 --> 02:35:18,200
the wards. Cause that is, I think, a big issue

1704
02:35:18,240 --> 02:35:20,520
that we have. I don't want any battling of the

1705
02:35:20,520 --> 02:35:22,920
words. I just want everyone in the city to understand

1706
02:35:22,941 --> 02:35:27,160
that this is a citywide issue. People are unhoused citywide

1707
02:35:27,981 --> 02:35:29,880
and we need all hands on deck. I've said this

1708
02:35:30,061 --> 02:35:33,300
countless countless times again and again. I know that, uh,

1709
02:35:33,300 --> 02:35:35,800
many of us want to also have that all hands

1710
02:35:35,800 --> 02:35:37,560
on deck approach, but I don't want to be prescriptive

1711
02:35:37,600 --> 02:35:40,040
in a way that kind of really outlines the ward

1712
02:35:40,080 --> 02:35:43,160
one, VIII. So that's why I didn't support that. But,

1713
02:35:43,160 --> 02:35:46,100
um, like I said, I am hearing here, you know,

1714
02:35:46,381 --> 02:35:50,449
this impacts my words significantly. We have issues that are,

1715
02:35:50,449 --> 02:35:52,529
you know, in certain areas. And that there's a reality

1716
02:35:52,630 --> 02:35:56,209
there. Now I understand that yes, word one has a,

1717
02:35:56,209 --> 02:35:58,509
why O she shelter. Word 13 does as well. And

1718
02:35:58,550 --> 02:36:01,969
I hear that, uh, award four currently as it is,

1719
02:36:01,969 --> 02:36:06,129
you know, has 696 location. Ward 13 has the chronon

1720
02:36:06,169 --> 02:36:09,889
- Warner location. I'm not saying no to spaces in

1721
02:36:09,929 --> 02:36:12,609
my ward. I have actually said yes to spaces in

1722
02:36:12,609 --> 02:36:14,769
my word because I understand that the crisis is, is

1723
02:36:14,790 --> 02:36:16,929
the more people that on the street, the more suffering

1724
02:36:16,969 --> 02:36:18,689
you have, the more suffering you have, the more people

1725
02:36:19,110 --> 02:36:21,409
house, who are watching individuals out on the street are

1726
02:36:21,449 --> 02:36:25,729
unhappy with the directions that they may foresee counsel making.

1727
02:36:25,729 --> 02:36:29,489
So ultimately, if we bring people indoors, if we expand

1728
02:36:29,510 --> 02:36:32,369
those services in that capacity, you will have less crisis

1729
02:36:32,630 --> 02:36:35,889
and you will have less people coming to our emails

1730
02:36:36,070 --> 02:36:37,889
calling us on our phone, coming to us and saying,

1731
02:36:37,889 --> 02:36:39,809
what are you doing when it comes to homelessness? What

1732
02:36:39,910 --> 02:36:42,289
are you doing when it comes to the crisis that

1733
02:36:42,329 --> 02:36:45,658
is very evident out on the street. So that's why

1734
02:36:45,658 --> 02:36:50,161
I supported the knotwithstanding. Motion. Um, I, I did not

1735
02:36:50,182 --> 02:36:52,641
support the original motion as it came to us a

1736
02:36:52,641 --> 02:36:54,241
couple of years ago because I knew what would happen

1737
02:36:54,502 --> 02:36:56,561
and it did transpire that way. More people were on

1738
02:36:56,561 --> 02:37:01,306
the street, period. It was, it was worse. And we

1739
02:37:01,327 --> 02:37:03,866
could have made some decisions that would have made it

1740
02:37:03,887 --> 02:37:06,186
less worse. So I like the direction we're going because

1741
02:37:06,186 --> 02:37:07,706
that is going to set up the next Council very

1742
02:37:07,727 --> 02:37:12,185
well. When it comes to where the locations are, I

1743
02:37:12,225 --> 02:37:14,185
don't want to be prescriptive, like I said. Now I

1744
02:37:14,225 --> 02:37:16,825
did make the argument already on the amendment to the

1745
02:37:16,825 --> 02:37:19,785
amendment or wherever that came through. Um, and I said

1746
02:37:19,825 --> 02:37:21,145
I was going to move a motion and I am.

1747
02:37:21,609 --> 02:37:24,148
Now I don't want to say in word one or

1748
02:37:24,329 --> 02:37:26,548
word 13. And I don't want to say within a

1749
02:37:26,969 --> 02:37:31,028
two mile radius of an existing location. All I want

1750
02:37:31,028 --> 02:37:34,068
to say is to give explicit instructions to staff to

1751
02:37:34,108 --> 02:37:38,138
say, consider this. Consider citywide. Now I know staff do

1752
02:37:38,138 --> 02:37:41,808
that. Already. But I want to have that language there

1753
02:37:42,149 --> 02:37:44,368
so that when you are speaking with your teams, you

1754
02:37:44,389 --> 02:37:47,168
have it up on the whiteboard saying, this is an

1755
02:37:47,208 --> 02:37:51,047
explicit direction from Council. So I have a motion. An

1756
02:37:51,047 --> 02:37:53,863
amendment. That I've already sent to the clerk to have

1757
02:37:53,964 --> 02:37:58,226
clerked up. And I want to move that. And I

1758
02:37:58,226 --> 02:38:01,474
can read it. If you want me to. Okay, go

1759
02:38:01,474 --> 02:38:05,114
ahead. Okay. And I clerked the, I wrote this on

1760
02:38:05,114 --> 02:38:07,274
the fly. And I know I always criticize doing that,

1761
02:38:07,274 --> 02:38:10,536
but I'm sorry. I had to. That the motion be

1762
02:38:10,576 --> 02:38:13,176
amended to add a new part that reads as follows.

1763
02:38:13,817 --> 02:38:17,796
Priority be given to locations citywide rather than being limited

1764
02:38:17,817 --> 02:38:21,796
to locations where current services exist and that all required

1765
02:38:21,897 --> 02:38:25,396
actions to implement this direction be considered and recommended when

1766
02:38:25,577 --> 02:38:26,596
reporting back to Council.

1767
02:38:36,723 --> 02:38:40,097
Okay. Uh, I'll look to see if the seconder for

1768
02:38:40,097 --> 02:38:48,344
that. Okay. I don't see second or Councillor. It's unfortunate.

1769
02:38:50,871 --> 02:38:55,506
I thought this Council was making the discussion. That we

1770
02:38:55,527 --> 02:39:03,353
want these services. Citywide. So I know this Council has

1771
02:39:03,454 --> 02:39:06,553
made decisions to shut down services in certain locations without

1772
02:39:06,734 --> 02:39:12,225
the decisions. To see what then, what happens then. I

1773
02:39:12,265 --> 02:39:15,067
don't understand. We have a direction that I have seen

1774
02:39:15,888 --> 02:39:20,561
coming time and time again to shut down services. Put

1775
02:39:20,582 --> 02:39:24,318
people back out on the street. Make things worse. Get

1776
02:39:24,579 --> 02:39:29,859
the city completely divided. But when a direction comes to

1777
02:39:29,899 --> 02:39:32,736
say look city wide, see what we can do. We

1778
02:39:32,736 --> 02:39:40,506
don't. That's telling. So I would like. Council to just

1779
02:39:40,687 --> 02:39:45,335
consider that. Because things won't get better unless we have

1780
02:39:45,436 --> 02:39:54,761
all hands on deck in the city. Okay. Other speakers

1781
02:39:55,342 --> 02:39:56,761
to the main motion.

1782
02:40:11,823 --> 02:40:14,042
Yes, we're, we've had some requests to pull some things

1783
02:40:14,063 --> 02:40:20,194
a little bit separately. So what I'm going to speak

1784
02:40:20,194 --> 02:40:21,634
to give the court time to do that. So I'll

1785
02:40:21,674 --> 02:40:26,175
turn the chair over to Deppy Mary Lewis. Thank you,

1786
02:40:26,175 --> 02:40:28,575
worship all assumed with the chair. And please go ahead.

1787
02:40:29,929 --> 02:40:31,888
Uh, yeah, so I'll say a couple of things. Um,

1788
02:40:33,129 --> 02:40:38,868
one, just through the presiding officer Council Pereira, um, I,

1789
02:40:38,868 --> 02:40:40,668
I know you didn't get support on your amendment. I

1790
02:40:40,668 --> 02:40:43,748
think when you had in your comments said, consider option

1791
02:40:43,769 --> 02:40:45,988
citywide. I think you probably would have got more support.

1792
02:40:45,988 --> 02:40:47,908
But you actually put your most from prioritize, which is

1793
02:40:48,569 --> 02:40:53,268
a more definitive decision to say. I think in the

1794
02:40:53,289 --> 02:40:55,588
search for space, I've got to be as open as

1795
02:40:55,628 --> 02:40:59,108
possible to locations, including locations across the city, which is,

1796
02:40:59,108 --> 02:41:01,408
as it would stand now and how staff would, uh,

1797
02:41:01,449 --> 02:41:04,148
would look at it. Um, I want to, the couple

1798
02:41:04,148 --> 02:41:06,288
of things through the debate that wasn't mentioned first, uh,

1799
02:41:06,409 --> 02:41:09,588
I want to say thank you to the federal government,

1800
02:41:09,588 --> 02:41:14,948
uh, for making decision and executing, um, the, uh, the

1801
02:41:14,969 --> 02:41:18,148
new program that allowed for, uh, 2. 5 million dollars

1802
02:41:18,188 --> 02:41:19,908
to come to the city of London 2. 1 million

1803
02:41:20,009 --> 02:41:22,388
of which, with part of this motion is being allocated

1804
02:41:22,409 --> 02:41:24,788
to support the winter response. This is something that we

1805
02:41:24,828 --> 02:41:28,548
cannot do, uh, on the backs of taxpayers, uh, in

1806
02:41:28,548 --> 02:41:31,188
the City of London. And we require levels of government

1807
02:41:31,188 --> 02:41:35,488
who have the capacity and responsibility for this issue. Um,

1808
02:41:36,569 --> 02:41:38,308
to chip in and do their part. And so I

1809
02:41:38,329 --> 02:41:41,988
want to recognise, uh, and thank those who helped advocate,

1810
02:41:41,988 --> 02:41:46,468
including our local MPs, fragile scados and kayabaga. I want

1811
02:41:46,468 --> 02:41:50,628
to thank my fellow mayor colleagues who advocated vigorously at

1812
02:41:50,628 --> 02:41:53,268
multiple sessions and give specific credit to the mayor of

1813
02:41:53,308 --> 02:41:56,868
Montreal on this issue. Um, who advocated for the renewal

1814
02:41:56,868 --> 02:41:59,188
of this funding. And then of course for it to

1815
02:41:59,228 --> 02:42:02,528
flow in time for municipalities, it actually utilise it. Uh,

1816
02:42:02,649 --> 02:42:04,848
in and before the winter period as one of the

1817
02:42:04,848 --> 02:42:07,748
options. So, um, those two pieces. At the end of

1818
02:42:07,748 --> 02:42:10,288
the day, I raccored the comments that were made. Uh,

1819
02:42:10,329 --> 02:42:12,388
I've heard the same thing for members of the public.

1820
02:42:12,388 --> 02:42:15,808
They want to see, uh, these spaces dealt with, uh,

1821
02:42:16,009 --> 02:42:18,868
well in advance of winter so that, uh, there's clear

1822
02:42:18,908 --> 02:42:21,748
expectations of what is happening to bring people indors through

1823
02:42:21,748 --> 02:42:23,908
the coldest months. I think I want to also thank

1824
02:42:23,948 --> 02:42:26,388
our staff for the work they did in pulling this

1825
02:42:26,428 --> 02:42:29,108
together. I want to thank the service agencies and partners

1826
02:42:30,249 --> 02:42:32,308
because essentially we don't have spaces if people don't step

1827
02:42:32,348 --> 02:42:34,868
up. And then we are using things like Community Centres.

1828
02:42:34,868 --> 02:42:37,648
So for those who said they could provide spaces, uh,

1829
02:42:37,689 --> 02:42:40,148
in their spaces or across the city or any of

1830
02:42:40,148 --> 02:42:42,128
the locations that they've offered, you know, thank you for

1831
02:42:42,128 --> 02:42:44,308
doing so. That, that takes pressure off of us to

1832
02:42:44,489 --> 02:42:48,068
continue to fluoride Community Services and Community Centres rather than

1833
02:42:48,108 --> 02:42:51,588
converting those into winter responses when we don't have the

1834
02:42:51,609 --> 02:42:54,508
capacity to, uh, meet the demand across the system. So

1835
02:42:54,508 --> 02:42:57,428
this is a good plan that brings people indoors. I

1836
02:42:57,428 --> 02:42:59,668
remind you when we bring people indoors, we have the

1837
02:42:59,708 --> 02:43:02,748
ability in those times to connect them with services, to

1838
02:43:02,748 --> 02:43:04,308
connect them with services to help them make their lives

1839
02:43:04,329 --> 02:43:06,628
better. Whether those are people with mental health and addiction

1840
02:43:06,668 --> 02:43:09,488
issues, people looking to connect with employment or housing, uh,

1841
02:43:09,689 --> 02:43:12,628
having people in spaces where we've got, uh, people who

1842
02:43:12,729 --> 02:43:15,268
know how to help them when they can connect with

1843
02:43:15,369 --> 02:43:18,548
individuals and talk with people, uh, that is always a

1844
02:43:18,548 --> 02:43:22,148
good thing for addressing people who are unsheltered in our

1845
02:43:22,148 --> 02:43:26,788
community or are facing significant housing challenges. Um, finally, I

1846
02:43:26,828 --> 02:43:29,108
do want to thank our staff for the incredible work

1847
02:43:29,148 --> 02:43:33,108
they did with the last winter response. Um, we used

1848
02:43:33,209 --> 02:43:35,908
a community centre. We had an expectation that we'd use

1849
02:43:35,908 --> 02:43:39,028
it for maybe five to 10 days. We used it

1850
02:43:39,028 --> 02:43:41,508
for way more than that. Uh, a staff volunteered that

1851
02:43:41,508 --> 02:43:43,748
went above and beyond. Um, and I wanted to recognise

1852
02:43:43,788 --> 02:43:46,948
that as we approve this next iteration of winter response,

1853
02:43:46,948 --> 02:43:49,508
the tremendous amount of volunteering and commitment that our staff

1854
02:43:51,209 --> 02:43:54,288
did to make the last winter response work through, uh,

1855
02:43:54,569 --> 02:43:57,828
very difficult conditions and a very long, uh, stretch of

1856
02:43:58,089 --> 02:43:59,748
cold days through the winter. I think this is a

1857
02:43:59,748 --> 02:44:02,348
better plan because of the consistency through the winter. We

1858
02:44:02,348 --> 02:44:04,548
won't be ramping up and down. Um, but I recognise

1859
02:44:04,649 --> 02:44:07,188
last year was difficult, but it worked because both providers

1860
02:44:07,369 --> 02:44:09,588
in our city and our municipal staff made it work.

1861
02:44:09,588 --> 02:44:11,588
And to the residents of the areas that were impacted

1862
02:44:11,628 --> 02:44:13,588
by the use of the community centres, you know, we

1863
02:44:13,588 --> 02:44:15,828
also thanked them. We know that that was, uh, definitely

1864
02:44:15,929 --> 02:44:18,468
an inconvenience when you can't do all the programming you

1865
02:44:18,468 --> 02:44:20,628
expect in your local community centre. You know, we certainly

1866
02:44:20,649 --> 02:44:23,508
heard your concerns last year and we have a winter

1867
02:44:23,508 --> 02:44:25,968
response plan that does not use those spaces in the

1868
02:44:25,968 --> 02:44:28,068
same way. So, um, with that, I'll be supporting the

1869
02:44:28,089 --> 02:44:34,442
motion for. Thank you, worship. I will return the chair

1870
02:44:34,482 --> 02:44:36,842
to you and I have only myself on the speaker's

1871
02:44:36,842 --> 02:44:41,802
list. Well, you go ahead then. Thank you. So I'm

1872
02:44:41,802 --> 02:44:44,401
going to be supporting the motion. Um, but I think

1873
02:44:44,422 --> 02:44:49,041
it's important to also, uh, set the record straight on

1874
02:44:49,081 --> 02:44:55,504
some of what we heard today. Since. The term of

1875
02:44:55,544 --> 02:44:59,869
this Council began. We have more overnight beds in our

1876
02:44:59,909 --> 02:45:05,500
city. Than we've ever had. We've heard a lot about

1877
02:45:05,601 --> 02:45:10,830
cuts. We have reallocated, uh, resources to other things. But

1878
02:45:10,870 --> 02:45:15,790
we actually have more overnight beds, whether it's Cronin Warner,

1879
02:45:15,790 --> 02:45:18,990
whether it's the Atlosa and YOU hubs, whether it is

1880
02:45:20,451 --> 02:45:25,061
the modular shelters out at Cheese Factory Road. Whether it's

1881
02:45:25,061 --> 02:45:29,541
the new heart hub that was the result of a

1882
02:45:29,541 --> 02:45:32,901
lot of advocacy with the province after we essentially provided

1883
02:45:32,941 --> 02:45:37,833
them the blueprint. Uh, for a hub, um, this Council

1884
02:45:38,254 --> 02:45:43,966
has added beds and capacity to the system. It is

1885
02:45:44,147 --> 02:45:46,846
unfortunate that we have policies from the senior levels of

1886
02:45:46,886 --> 02:45:50,426
government, uh, that continued to put people into homelessness. And

1887
02:45:50,426 --> 02:45:54,166
I know, uh, Ms. Moss is in the gallery. I

1888
02:45:54,166 --> 02:45:56,606
heard her on the Craig Needles podcast not long ago

1889
02:45:57,507 --> 02:45:59,886
referencing as much as we are fishing people out of

1890
02:45:59,886 --> 02:46:02,366
the water and trying to get them dried and helped

1891
02:46:02,366 --> 02:46:05,006
out. Uh, upstream more people are being pushed into the

1892
02:46:05,046 --> 02:46:08,526
river. And that analogy is true. So yes, there is

1893
02:46:08,526 --> 02:46:10,446
still a lot of homelessness in the city, but it

1894
02:46:10,446 --> 02:46:13,486
is not from lack of effort from our service providers

1895
02:46:13,827 --> 02:46:17,999
or from these Council. To address the problem. In fact,

1896
02:46:18,900 --> 02:46:20,319
your worship - e - referenced at your state of

1897
02:46:20,319 --> 02:46:23,099
the city address that through this term of Council, uh,

1898
02:46:23,220 --> 02:46:27,279
there are 1, 500 fewer people on the streets because

1899
02:46:27,279 --> 02:46:29,359
through this four - year term, they have been moved

1900
02:46:29,380 --> 02:46:32,639
through systems, whether it's through the Cronin - Warner beds,

1901
02:46:32,660 --> 02:46:34,639
whether it's through help at London cares, whether it's through

1902
02:46:34,660 --> 02:46:36,879
help with the Salvation Army. They've been moved through the

1903
02:46:36,919 --> 02:46:38,959
system and they are no longer on the street. They

1904
02:46:38,959 --> 02:46:42,087
might be in an end well. Site. Which we have

1905
02:46:42,188 --> 02:46:46,754
added three locations during this term of Council 2. They

1906
02:46:46,775 --> 02:46:49,714
might be at the new home's Unlimited Buildings that we've

1907
02:46:49,754 --> 02:46:54,754
opened on pawn Mills Road or over on Dufford through

1908
02:46:54,754 --> 02:46:57,515
an office to residential conversion. But there is more support

1909
02:46:58,176 --> 02:47:02,433
and more spaces than there have ever been. In our

1910
02:47:02,473 --> 02:47:05,633
city. So we haven't been cutting spaces. We may not

1911
02:47:05,654 --> 02:47:09,446
agree on the allocations. And that's okay. That's part of

1912
02:47:09,446 --> 02:47:11,406
the process. And that's why we have debate and that's

1913
02:47:11,446 --> 02:47:15,288
why we vote on TS. But it's not factually true

1914
02:47:15,309 --> 02:47:18,168
to say we have cut services. We have actually increased

1915
02:47:18,208 --> 02:47:22,635
services over the hospital years. So I will be supporting,

1916
02:47:22,635 --> 02:47:24,955
uh, the main motion before us. Is it perfect? No.

1917
02:47:25,665 --> 02:47:31,722
Would I like other options? Yes. We also experienced, uh,

1918
02:47:31,923 --> 02:47:35,495
less than a year ago. Uh, tasking our staff, uh,

1919
02:47:35,536 --> 02:47:38,873
with standing up a micromodular site. Uh, that when we

1920
02:47:39,854 --> 02:47:43,193
gave them all the criteria we wanted, there was not

1921
02:47:43,454 --> 02:47:45,673
really anything to choose from. They came back to us

1922
02:47:45,713 --> 02:47:47,593
with one site because that was the only one that

1923
02:47:47,633 --> 02:47:50,537
they had available that was in our ownership. That could

1924
02:47:50,577 --> 02:47:56,518
match the criteria we had set out. So I think

1925
02:47:56,779 --> 02:48:00,338
there has been a demonstrated desire. I think the, uh,

1926
02:48:00,459 --> 02:48:03,856
the hubs right now are both located. I think they're

1927
02:48:03,856 --> 02:48:05,776
on a dividing line. So they might be inward 12

1928
02:48:05,816 --> 02:48:08,016
or word 14. And I apologise to the two word

1929
02:48:08,056 --> 02:48:11,456
councillors for, for not knowing exactly where the dividing line

1930
02:48:11,496 --> 02:48:14,416
is, uh, Councillor Frank has a new indwell building in

1931
02:48:14,416 --> 02:48:16,964
her ward. Um, these are things that are happening around

1932
02:48:17,065 --> 02:48:19,364
the city, uh, and so I think we need to

1933
02:48:19,364 --> 02:48:21,444
be mindful of that when we speak to these sorts

1934
02:48:21,444 --> 02:48:25,804
of motions, um, it's not perfect, but we have to

1935
02:48:25,804 --> 02:48:28,404
work with what we've had. And we as a Council

1936
02:48:28,745 --> 02:48:32,244
collectively have made progress on this issue. Uh, the fact

1937
02:48:32,244 --> 02:48:34,564
that we are talking about winter response in August this

1938
02:48:34,564 --> 02:48:38,884
year rather than October, I think continues to demonstrate that

1939
02:48:38,985 --> 02:48:41,364
this is an issue that while we may have disagreements

1940
02:48:41,465 --> 02:48:44,324
about particulars on, every single one of us around this

1941
02:48:44,425 --> 02:48:45,364
horseshoe cares a vote.

1942
02:48:56,721 --> 02:49:00,620
Okay. Any other speakers Council Priviley. Thank you. I know

1943
02:49:00,641 --> 02:49:02,140
I mentioned it to all of you during the meeting,

1944
02:49:02,140 --> 02:49:04,860
but during the, uh, CAPS meeting by just one I

1945
02:49:04,881 --> 02:49:07,660
reiterated one more time and mayor lady said it as

1946
02:49:07,660 --> 02:49:10,460
well. Great. Thank you to our staff for last winter.

1947
02:49:10,460 --> 02:49:12,780
And I visited a place three times. And to how

1948
02:49:12,820 --> 02:49:15,180
our staff came together and I'm not talking, I'm talking

1949
02:49:15,281 --> 02:49:19,740
about management, middle height, executive management, management, staff, life level

1950
02:49:19,780 --> 02:49:22,860
staff. Everyone came together and it was absolutely amazing how

1951
02:49:23,521 --> 02:49:27,100
our staff helped our community. Uh, I mentioned this one

1952
02:49:27,201 --> 02:49:32,380
as well before. All the initiatives that we've introduced, I've

1953
02:49:32,380 --> 02:49:35,100
been talking to some other municipalities and certainly not just

1954
02:49:35,100 --> 02:49:38,220
in Canada outside. And everyone is telling me that based

1955
02:49:38,220 --> 02:49:40,860
on our funding model, it doesn't matter if it's provincial

1956
02:49:40,860 --> 02:49:45,420
or federal or municipal the way decide they honestly don't

1957
02:49:45,521 --> 02:49:48,060
see the light at the end of the tunnel and

1958
02:49:48,081 --> 02:49:50,140
they say it's going to be a deja vu for

1959
02:49:50,161 --> 02:49:53,740
staff and the organization's all the time. Because the funding,

1960
02:49:53,780 --> 02:49:56,700
there was one of my fellow councillors said it's not,

1961
02:49:56,700 --> 02:49:59,220
it's not really about money and about the funding. It

1962
02:49:59,220 --> 02:50:02,096
is. That's all it's about actually. That's the number one

1963
02:50:02,117 --> 02:50:04,176
thing because we have to know how we know what

1964
02:50:04,216 --> 02:50:06,416
we want to do. We could deliver. It doesn't matter.

1965
02:50:06,416 --> 02:50:08,576
If you look at our spectrum of housing, it's absolutely

1966
02:50:08,677 --> 02:50:11,216
great. Guess what? We don't have the funding. We don't

1967
02:50:11,216 --> 02:50:13,456
have the money. But there's the thing that if the

1968
02:50:13,496 --> 02:50:16,576
higher levels of government don't come with a sustainable model

1969
02:50:17,077 --> 02:50:19,216
with a long - term vision, I truly believe that

1970
02:50:19,717 --> 02:50:22,176
discouncil will have to come with a multi - year

1971
02:50:22,176 --> 02:50:25,616
budget, which will include this. Because right now this is

1972
02:50:25,656 --> 02:50:31,159
the most expensive, most nonproactive way. How we are addressing

1973
02:50:31,199 --> 02:50:35,959
it as a Council, as a staff, as the agencies.

1974
02:50:35,959 --> 02:50:37,639
But guess what? None of us want to do that.

1975
02:50:38,520 --> 02:50:40,099
None of us. We want to have a perfect vision.

1976
02:50:40,099 --> 02:50:41,459
We want to see where we want to be in

1977
02:50:41,499 --> 02:50:44,179
5, 10, 15, 20 years. But guess what? We don't

1978
02:50:44,179 --> 02:50:46,959
have money funding. If you don't have the commitments. But

1979
02:50:47,080 --> 02:50:51,739
thank you, Tole Greer with the mayor mayor, what he

1980
02:50:51,739 --> 02:50:54,499
stated. Are we where we are? Am I glad improving

1981
02:50:54,760 --> 02:50:57,139
this winter response? Of course I'm not. I want something

1982
02:50:57,240 --> 02:51:00,819
with a bigger vision, more bad, more sustainable. But based

1983
02:51:00,819 --> 02:51:04,739
on the funding model we have, and we can always

1984
02:51:04,779 --> 02:51:07,699
be better. Everyone can always be better. But I really

1985
02:51:07,720 --> 02:51:11,299
see that we moved it forward. Forward as much as

1986
02:51:11,299 --> 02:51:14,179
I would like to, not. But again, I'm not going

1987
02:51:14,179 --> 02:51:24,159
to repeat what I already said. Thank you again. Okay.

1988
02:51:24,628 --> 02:51:31,504
Uh, so any other speakers first. Okay. We're going to

1989
02:51:31,504 --> 02:51:33,544
separate this as has been requested.

1990
02:51:58,242 --> 02:52:07,268
So I've had Councillor request to do D. Part three.

1991
02:52:07,268 --> 02:52:12,222
And E separate. So D part III. And E separate

1992
02:52:12,222 --> 02:52:15,182
of the main potion that was Councillor Stevens for that.

1993
02:52:15,322 --> 02:52:18,021
I don't have anybody asking to do anything else separate.

1994
02:52:18,021 --> 02:52:23,141
So yeah. I asked for IV, but maybe it's changed.

1995
02:52:23,141 --> 02:52:28,815
Okay. Yeah. It's, it's incorporated now. You'll see when we

1996
02:52:28,815 --> 02:52:30,975
put it up, but, uh, the clerk took what you

1997
02:52:30,975 --> 02:52:34,975
asked for an email and put it together. So that's,

1998
02:52:35,015 --> 02:52:37,879
that'll be done first. I just need to know if

1999
02:52:37,879 --> 02:52:39,399
anybody else wants it. Then we'll do everything else after.

2000
02:52:40,541 --> 02:52:41,880
No one has any other way they want to do

2001
02:52:41,880 --> 02:52:51,595
it. Okay. Good. We'll proceed that way. So. If you're

2002
02:52:51,595 --> 02:52:55,681
in eScribe, we're going to be doing vote 11. Which

2003
02:52:55,721 --> 02:52:58,561
is just those pieces. And then we'll do the remainder

2004
02:52:58,601 --> 02:53:05,121
of them. Okay. Okay. We're going to open that for

2005
02:53:05,121 --> 02:53:05,201
voting.

2006
02:53:22,059 --> 02:53:26,000
Closing the vote. Motion carries 14 to one.

2007
02:53:31,773 --> 02:53:33,272
Okay. And now we're going to do the remainder of

2008
02:53:33,272 --> 02:53:34,792
the motion. We'll open that for water.

2009
02:53:59,500 --> 02:54:07,219
The vote. Motion carries. 15 to zero. Okay. I know

2010
02:54:07,240 --> 02:54:10,579
the next one probably gets debated a bit. It's been

2011
02:54:10,760 --> 02:54:12,899
two and a half hours. I wonder if colleagues want

2012
02:54:12,899 --> 02:54:15,219
to take a 10 minute break at this point. Councillor

2013
02:54:15,259 --> 02:54:18,733
Farr, you want to move 10. Or people are going

2014
02:54:18,733 --> 02:54:20,733
to boat against it because it's not 15. Like, yeah,

2015
02:54:20,754 --> 02:54:23,213
I think we should amend that 15, let's be honest,

2016
02:54:23,213 --> 02:54:25,133
by the time we get upstairs and back down, we're

2017
02:54:25,133 --> 02:54:27,950
never back in 10. Uh, motion two, take a break

2018
02:54:27,950 --> 02:54:30,590
for 15 minutes. Move by Council Farrak, second of a

2019
02:54:30,630 --> 02:54:33,793
Deputy Mayor Lewis. Let's do it by hand. All those

2020
02:54:33,833 --> 02:54:40,283
in favor. Any opposed. Motion carries. Okay. We'll do 15

2021
02:54:40,323 --> 02:54:40,603
minutes.

2022
03:16:13,745 --> 03:16:18,490
Okay, thank you, please be seated. We're back to Council

2023
03:16:18,530 --> 03:16:22,152
Ramen to continue with that committee's report. Thank you. I'd

2024
03:16:22,152 --> 03:16:25,592
like to put item 4, 2. 3 housing, stability services,

2025
03:16:25,592 --> 03:16:29,672
procurement, and delivery framework emergency shelter guidelines 2011 versus 2026

2026
03:16:30,093 --> 03:16:33,862
comparative analysis on the floor. Okay, that's on the floor

2027
03:16:33,963 --> 03:16:37,343
for discussion. I'll look for speakers. Go ahead, Councillor Stevenson.

2028
03:16:38,347 --> 03:16:40,886
Thank you, I circulated an amendment for this one as

2029
03:16:40,886 --> 03:16:44,418
well. That the motion be amended to add a new

2030
03:16:44,519 --> 03:16:48,418
part that reads as follows. D, the Civic Administration be

2031
03:16:48,418 --> 03:16:51,698
directed to amend the emergency shelter guidelines as appended to

2032
03:16:51,698 --> 03:16:55,138
the above - noted staff report as Appendix A to

2033
03:16:55,159 --> 03:16:58,818
I remove any provision that permits illegal substances to be

2034
03:16:58,858 --> 03:17:03,378
brought into or possessed within emergency shelter locations. And I

2035
03:17:04,039 --> 03:17:07,538
remove any provision that prohibits the discharge of or service

2036
03:17:07,578 --> 03:17:11,218
restrictions being imposed on, an individual for the use of

2037
03:17:11,319 --> 03:17:16,978
illegal substances within an emergency shelter location. And III ensure

2038
03:17:17,018 --> 03:17:20,098
that the current version of the emergency shelter guidelines is

2039
03:17:20,138 --> 03:17:23,458
made publicly available on the City of London's website and

2040
03:17:23,458 --> 03:17:29,115
maintain thereon for an ongoing basis. Okay, so secondative for

2041
03:17:29,115 --> 03:17:33,371
that. A Councillor Hillier is going to second it. Okay,

2042
03:17:33,371 --> 03:17:35,931
so we can start discussion on the amendment. It should

2043
03:17:35,931 --> 03:17:41,222
be in eScribe and available for colleagues to read. Which

2044
03:17:41,323 --> 03:17:44,699
I'd like to go ahead and speak. Oh wait, and

2045
03:17:44,699 --> 03:17:49,875
go after my colleagues. Any speakers to this. Councilman Callister,

2046
03:17:49,875 --> 03:17:55,459
go ahead. Thank you for the chair. Just, I listened

2047
03:17:55,459 --> 03:18:01,059
to the committee discussion on this. No, they went through

2048
03:18:01,099 --> 03:18:03,219
a lot of things. I think the question that still

2049
03:18:03,219 --> 03:18:04,819
is on my mind, and I think this was brought

2050
03:18:04,859 --> 03:18:08,019
up a committee as well. But I just still don't

2051
03:18:08,019 --> 03:18:11,939
understand, in terms of enforcement, how this would be enforced.

2052
03:18:11,960 --> 03:18:15,679
My understanding from what was discussed a committee was, you

2053
03:18:15,679 --> 03:18:18,819
know, shelter staff do not have search and seizure powers.

2054
03:18:18,819 --> 03:18:21,299
And so I'm just wondering if staff can maybe add

2055
03:18:21,339 --> 03:18:24,579
anything further to that. Or if this is something in

2056
03:18:24,579 --> 03:18:28,979
terms of the police having to deal with illegal substances.

2057
03:18:28,979 --> 03:18:30,899
Because my understanding that they do not have the power

2058
03:18:31,080 --> 03:18:34,819
to do anything of this, so the staff can comment.

2059
03:18:34,920 --> 03:18:38,099
Mr. Dickens, go ahead. Thank you, and through you, your

2060
03:18:38,099 --> 03:18:42,179
worship. That is correct. This would be very difficult to

2061
03:18:42,219 --> 03:18:44,879
enforce. I think the delegation submission is part of the

2062
03:18:45,080 --> 03:18:48,099
CAPS agenda was really clear. This community has had several

2063
03:18:48,360 --> 03:18:53,059
policies in place for emergency shelters. Uh, long before some

2064
03:18:53,059 --> 03:18:55,219
of my colleagues and I were here, uh, the same

2065
03:18:55,259 --> 03:18:59,299
issues were persistent when there was a prohibition, as there

2066
03:18:59,339 --> 03:19:03,219
is now under a harm reduction framework. And as we

2067
03:19:03,259 --> 03:19:08,259
point out, um, in the report, uh, we're simply just

2068
03:19:08,299 --> 03:19:12,179
trying to modernize our guidelines to reflect that what is

2069
03:19:12,179 --> 03:19:15,139
in your pocket is not the sole grounds for being

2070
03:19:15,320 --> 03:19:18,899
denied entry to an emergency shelter bed in one of

2071
03:19:18,899 --> 03:19:24,099
our low - barrier emergency shelters. Um, shelter providers still

2072
03:19:24,360 --> 03:19:29,086
have the ability. To, uh, remove someone from the building

2073
03:19:29,126 --> 03:19:33,726
to, uh, put in service restrictions, um, and it's looking

2074
03:19:33,726 --> 03:19:37,566
at the whole experience. So a person comes in and

2075
03:19:37,566 --> 03:19:41,886
if they are, you know, trafficking or using, or, uh,

2076
03:19:41,886 --> 03:19:45,486
disruptive or the behavioral issues, absolutely that shelter provider has

2077
03:19:45,526 --> 03:19:48,526
a responsibility to keep the place safe. And they may

2078
03:19:49,107 --> 03:19:52,046
lay service restrictions. They may ask that person to leave.

2079
03:19:52,147 --> 03:19:54,366
That is what happens now. And I assume that's what

2080
03:19:54,387 --> 03:20:00,551
would happen going forward. Council, sir. Thank you. Through the

2081
03:20:00,591 --> 03:20:02,951
mayor, and yeah, that was my understanding. I did some

2082
03:20:03,132 --> 03:20:06,071
research on this as well. And, um, I know a

2083
03:20:06,071 --> 03:20:08,791
number of municipalities struggle with it. And whether you explicitly

2084
03:20:08,812 --> 03:20:12,791
say not allowed or you allow, um, their response is

2085
03:20:12,831 --> 03:20:15,031
essentially the same where they do have to call police

2086
03:20:15,052 --> 03:20:17,751
services in to manage it. Uh, I would imagine that

2087
03:20:17,791 --> 03:20:19,031
would be the same thing with any sort of like

2088
03:20:19,052 --> 03:20:22,471
weapons, uh, charges. Uh, there'd be a number of issues,

2089
03:20:22,471 --> 03:20:25,991
not just listed substances, but my understanding is that the,

2090
03:20:25,991 --> 03:20:28,442
um. The way of dealing with this would be through

2091
03:20:28,442 --> 03:20:31,802
the police. Um, I understand in terms of what the

2092
03:20:31,842 --> 03:20:35,322
Councillors trying to achieve here, but, uh, I don't think

2093
03:20:35,583 --> 03:20:37,962
it matters one way or the other. I think Enforcement,

2094
03:20:37,962 --> 03:20:39,642
uh, is going to be handled by the same service

2095
03:20:39,903 --> 03:20:42,922
regardless of what you have in your policy, uh, the

2096
03:20:42,962 --> 03:20:46,522
laws would supersede any shelter policy depending on what they're

2097
03:20:46,543 --> 03:20:50,842
dealing with in that situation is my understanding. So with

2098
03:20:50,842 --> 03:20:54,682
that in mind, I think updating this policy is appropriate.

2099
03:20:54,682 --> 03:20:57,382
Um, I do think regardless of what you have, uh,

2100
03:20:57,382 --> 03:21:00,182
written, uh, you're still going to have those challenges. Uh,

2101
03:21:00,182 --> 03:21:02,522
and I understand in terms of where the shelter staff

2102
03:21:02,562 --> 03:21:04,922
were coming from that this is not a task that

2103
03:21:05,743 --> 03:21:09,382
there feel comfortable to handle or can actually enforce. Um,

2104
03:21:09,382 --> 03:21:11,482
so with that, I'll leave my comments there. But curious

2105
03:21:11,522 --> 03:21:13,322
to hear what other colleagues have to say because I

2106
03:21:13,362 --> 03:21:15,562
know if there was a lengthy debate at committee as

2107
03:21:15,562 --> 03:21:19,732
well. Okay. Other, uh, colleagues.

2108
03:21:28,013 --> 03:21:31,642
Right. Councillor Privileg and Councillor Stevenson. Thank you very similar

2109
03:21:31,663 --> 03:21:35,562
to what Council Mcroll Lister said. I love what's in

2110
03:21:35,562 --> 03:21:38,352
front of us what's proposed. But it's actually based on

2111
03:21:40,533 --> 03:21:44,192
the play, based on the city province we live unfortunately

2112
03:21:44,933 --> 03:21:46,712
legal. If you are not able to do it. So

2113
03:21:47,173 --> 03:21:50,012
this I see, I love it. As I said, uh,

2114
03:21:50,133 --> 03:21:52,572
at the committee meeting when I discuss their visor, I'm

2115
03:21:52,572 --> 03:21:56,512
a jurisdiction outside this country. They said absolutely. They would

2116
03:21:56,512 --> 03:21:59,312
support it. They were not allowed. Having said that, that

2117
03:21:59,312 --> 03:22:02,192
they have the tools how to address it, how to

2118
03:22:02,293 --> 03:22:05,712
adjust it right at the entrance with private security guards

2119
03:22:06,053 --> 03:22:09,392
with actually even, uh, detectors. So the weapons don't go

2120
03:22:09,392 --> 03:22:13,132
into places. They have it at every virtual place. And

2121
03:22:13,132 --> 03:22:16,032
they can, they have actually the tools. And they have

2122
03:22:16,613 --> 03:22:21,472
the teeth to actually, uh, to actually implement it and

2123
03:22:21,472 --> 03:22:25,232
to make such decisions. We don't. And based on that,

2124
03:22:25,272 --> 03:22:27,392
I will not be supporting it. We had things before

2125
03:22:27,573 --> 03:22:32,172
us before that we were discussing in other areas. And

2126
03:22:32,213 --> 03:22:35,312
we said, great idea of you actually cannot act on

2127
03:22:35,352 --> 03:22:37,392
it. And I believe, I feel that this is the

2128
03:22:37,392 --> 03:22:41,410
same way if I hear otherwise that we can. I

2129
03:22:41,410 --> 03:22:43,170
would be willing to change my mind. But as I

2130
03:22:43,170 --> 03:22:48,610
said, I just, if it's various people, organisations, uh, in

2131
03:22:48,610 --> 03:22:51,810
our province. And I always got the same answer. There's

2132
03:22:51,810 --> 03:22:54,450
nothing you can do about it. And even if you,

2133
03:22:54,490 --> 03:22:56,730
if you put this forward, you won't be able to

2134
03:22:56,871 --> 03:23:01,170
act on it. Having said that, speaking with the agencies,

2135
03:23:01,170 --> 03:23:05,170
they do, they don't have to, they don't have the

2136
03:23:05,191 --> 03:23:08,770
individuals can enter. But if they do use it, they

2137
03:23:08,871 --> 03:23:10,690
do act on it. So it's not kind of like

2138
03:23:10,711 --> 03:23:13,970
it's a green light. Go ahead to do this. No,

2139
03:23:13,970 --> 03:23:20,188
that's not the case. Thank you. Councillor Stevenson. Uh, thank

2140
03:23:20,188 --> 03:23:22,428
you. We did have a long discussion about this at

2141
03:23:22,468 --> 03:23:30,008
committee. I'm bringing this forward because, uh, it's illegal. And

2142
03:23:30,008 --> 03:23:34,988
so we have a sentence that says allowed illegal substances.

2143
03:23:36,127 --> 03:23:39,946
I could not find that in any other cities guidelines.

2144
03:23:39,946 --> 03:23:41,706
Many of the other stuff we have in our guidelines

2145
03:23:41,887 --> 03:23:46,586
I saw, but not a sentence that allows illegal substances.

2146
03:23:46,586 --> 03:23:48,986
That's what I'm asking to be removed here. I'm not

2147
03:23:49,026 --> 03:23:52,326
even saying go back to the prohibition of 2011. I'm

2148
03:23:52,326 --> 03:23:55,306
saying, how about we just not say that they're allowed

2149
03:23:55,346 --> 03:23:58,757
to bring in illegal substances. We'll let staff work that

2150
03:23:58,757 --> 03:24:03,317
out the guidelines can be published. It already says there

2151
03:24:03,357 --> 03:24:06,037
that they can make amendments and changes. So maybe they

2152
03:24:06,037 --> 03:24:09,237
can find another way to address this without this Council

2153
03:24:10,298 --> 03:24:17,210
endorsing guidelines that allow illegal substances. I know for me,

2154
03:24:17,471 --> 03:24:20,810
we heard what the agency said. We understand the concerns.

2155
03:24:21,071 --> 03:24:23,530
There's always a straw man argument put out there. Like,

2156
03:24:23,530 --> 03:24:25,290
Oh, so who's going to strip search them to make

2157
03:24:25,290 --> 03:24:28,329
sure that there's nothing in there. There's a far cry

2158
03:24:28,350 --> 03:24:38,266
between that and saying they're allowed. So. I feel strongly

2159
03:24:38,306 --> 03:24:40,106
that I need to bring this forward. I heard what

2160
03:24:40,106 --> 03:24:43,086
the agency's had to say. It certainly wasn't all of

2161
03:24:43,086 --> 03:24:46,686
the agencies through you to staff. Did mission services and

2162
03:24:46,726 --> 03:24:50,366
salvation army? Have they both explicitly said that they support

2163
03:24:50,707 --> 03:25:00,338
this change. Go ahead. Three worship. The

2164
03:25:00,338 --> 03:25:03,398
consultation sessions that were developed and carried out in result

2165
03:25:03,499 --> 03:25:06,198
of creating these shelter guidelines that include all the organisations

2166
03:25:06,198 --> 03:25:10,038
that were offering shelter services. We've connected with those organisations

2167
03:25:10,139 --> 03:25:13,558
that you've mentioned. They offer, um, unique programs within those,

2168
03:25:13,598 --> 03:25:16,838
those spaces that are recovery oriented programs. These guidelines do

2169
03:25:16,878 --> 03:25:20,038
make provision for the nuances that come with a recovery

2170
03:25:20,139 --> 03:25:23,558
- oriented program. The low barrier emergency shelters that we're

2171
03:25:23,598 --> 03:25:26,758
talking about in consultation with the other shelter operators, including

2172
03:25:26,779 --> 03:25:29,718
those, those organisations, like this would align with the harm

2173
03:25:29,718 --> 03:25:36,184
reduction practices that they do have in their shelters. Go

2174
03:25:36,184 --> 03:25:40,904
ahead, Council. Uh, thank you. Um, and through you, uh,

2175
03:25:41,085 --> 03:25:44,504
the emergency room at the hospital, do they make allowances

2176
03:25:44,525 --> 03:25:46,664
like this as well, given that they deal with a

2177
03:25:46,664 --> 03:25:53,267
lot of the same clientele. Go ahead. Throw you worship.

2178
03:25:53,267 --> 03:25:55,427
I think I should point out that that is well

2179
03:25:55,467 --> 03:25:58,547
beyond our jurisdiction here as municipal staff to comment on

2180
03:25:58,547 --> 03:26:03,738
the hospital. That's better answered by the hospital. Go ahead,

2181
03:26:03,738 --> 03:26:06,458
Councillor. Yeah. Thank you. I understand that it's just the

2182
03:26:06,458 --> 03:26:15,338
same premise that services are needed by a particular clientel.

2183
03:26:15,338 --> 03:26:16,698
To me, it would be useful to know if they

2184
03:26:16,698 --> 03:26:22,701
were doing that at the hospitals. The R code of

2185
03:26:22,882 --> 03:26:26,861
conduct says that we, uh, are supposed to uphold both

2186
03:26:26,962 --> 03:26:31,021
the letter and the spirit of federal and provincial laws.

2187
03:26:31,021 --> 03:26:36,061
So again, endorsing this policy that allows illegal drug use

2188
03:26:36,802 --> 03:26:40,461
or illegal substances to be brought inside, um, is a

2189
03:26:40,461 --> 03:26:44,399
concern to me. I'm representing the residents in my ward.

2190
03:26:46,001 --> 03:26:48,860
And I've heard very clearly from them that they don't

2191
03:26:48,881 --> 03:26:52,860
support this, that they do not want, uh, illegal substances

2192
03:26:52,961 --> 03:26:58,140
to be explicitly allowed inside taxpayer funding shelters anywhere in

2193
03:26:58,180 --> 03:27:01,980
the city, uh, particularly not in the neighbourhood, uh, that

2194
03:27:02,020 --> 03:27:05,893
they live in. Um, I've also heard concerns, you know,

2195
03:27:05,934 --> 03:27:08,873
there was a letter submitted by the OEV B. I.

2196
03:27:08,873 --> 03:27:13,993
A. Executive Director with a lot of, uh, various questions

2197
03:27:14,254 --> 03:27:18,873
and concerns in here around, uh, insurance possibility of insurance.

2198
03:27:20,067 --> 03:27:25,406
Possibility of, uh, legal liability potentially or workplace and safety

2199
03:27:25,587 --> 03:27:31,086
regulations have through you to staff. Has that exhaustively been

2200
03:27:31,507 --> 03:27:35,706
explored in terms of, will there be insurance, you know,

2201
03:27:35,706 --> 03:27:39,166
no general insurance liability concerns for these agencies with the

2202
03:27:39,187 --> 03:27:44,126
change in policy workplace safety, no concerns there. And I

2203
03:27:44,126 --> 03:27:46,366
don't know if we need to go, uh, into closed

2204
03:27:46,366 --> 03:27:49,406
for legal, but I would want to know if something

2205
03:27:49,507 --> 03:27:53,670
were to happen. Uh, would we be legally liable. For

2206
03:27:53,710 --> 03:28:01,322
the change. Mr. Jins. Um, through you, your worship. Very

2207
03:28:01,322 --> 03:28:04,042
fair question. We did see the communication on the Council

2208
03:28:04,082 --> 03:28:08,442
Agenda, uh, we have lots of, uh, responses to it

2209
03:28:08,482 --> 03:28:12,282
if needed. These organisations have been operating in this way

2210
03:28:12,322 --> 03:28:15,281
now. Um, I want to make it clear. The inclusion

2211
03:28:15,321 --> 03:28:20,401
of the language harm reduction or, you know, removing the

2212
03:28:20,502 --> 03:28:26,401
piece of, of, uh, suspicion of substance use or possession

2213
03:28:26,401 --> 03:28:30,561
of substances is a requirement to, uh, deny you entry

2214
03:28:30,601 --> 03:28:34,321
to a shelter. It's not suddenly introducing this activity to

2215
03:28:34,342 --> 03:28:38,001
our community. These organisations that currently operate this way all

2216
03:28:38,041 --> 03:28:41,281
have board of governors board of directors. They all have

2217
03:28:41,302 --> 03:28:44,161
their own independent legal advice. And they all have their

2218
03:28:44,161 --> 03:28:47,761
own independent insurance. If this had been a problem up

2219
03:28:47,801 --> 03:28:50,541
to this point, it would have been flagged. In the

2220
03:28:50,642 --> 03:28:55,141
consultations by their boards or by their leadership teams. Or

2221
03:28:55,141 --> 03:28:56,541
it would have been a practice. They had not been

2222
03:28:56,562 --> 03:29:04,753
carrying out up until this point. Councillor Stevenson. Um, thank

2223
03:29:04,753 --> 03:29:04,833
you.

2224
03:29:14,693 --> 03:29:18,512
I understand that many people want the laws to be

2225
03:29:18,613 --> 03:29:21,472
different than they are, but the laws are what they

2226
03:29:21,472 --> 03:29:26,316
are. And this is a sentence that clearly states that

2227
03:29:26,497 --> 03:29:30,876
we're allowing illegal substances without setting parameters on other illegal

2228
03:29:30,977 --> 03:29:35,436
activity. As I said, representing the residents in my ward,

2229
03:29:35,436 --> 03:29:39,356
I just can't support having that in there, which is

2230
03:29:39,356 --> 03:29:42,796
why I bring forward this motion for Council to consider

2231
03:29:43,537 --> 03:29:46,396
what their residents, uh, how and how they would want

2232
03:29:46,436 --> 03:29:51,596
them to vote on this amendment. The publishing of the

2233
03:29:52,577 --> 03:29:55,756
guidelines, I think is really important because we delegate the

2234
03:29:55,796 --> 03:29:58,556
authority to make changes. So I think having that accessible

2235
03:29:58,577 --> 03:30:00,716
for anybody to be able to look at is really

2236
03:30:00,716 --> 03:30:04,926
important. And the other one is about 30 seconds, you

2237
03:30:04,926 --> 03:30:09,426
know, discharging, restricting, not being able to discharge people or,

2238
03:30:09,426 --> 03:30:12,866
uh, do service restrictions for people who actually use the

2239
03:30:13,047 --> 03:30:18,815
illegal substances inside, which is still prohibited. Um, that is

2240
03:30:18,855 --> 03:30:22,095
a concern for me as well. And I wonder too,

2241
03:30:22,095 --> 03:30:25,055
if, you know, the other statements in there that say

2242
03:30:25,396 --> 03:30:28,255
people can't be discharged or service restrictions just because they

2243
03:30:28,255 --> 03:30:31,115
have a substance use disorder, that all makes sense. But

2244
03:30:31,636 --> 03:30:33,775
to say that they can't do it if people use

2245
03:30:34,036 --> 03:30:37,375
inside has at least the perception that there's no consequences

2246
03:30:37,476 --> 03:30:46,410
if they do. Your time is up. Councillor Franklin, then

2247
03:30:46,410 --> 03:30:52,330
Councillor Cotty. Thank you. Uh, first off, I just want

2248
03:30:52,330 --> 03:30:54,810
to say thank you to staff for bringing this fort.

2249
03:30:54,810 --> 03:30:57,530
I think it's good for us to have, uh, a

2250
03:30:57,530 --> 03:31:01,770
framework that accurately reflects what is happening within our shelter

2251
03:31:01,871 --> 03:31:04,610
guidelines and to have it updated to 2026. I think

2252
03:31:04,610 --> 03:31:07,610
that's good again for the Community to know what our

2253
03:31:07,610 --> 03:31:10,970
standards are and what's the expectation and what's going on.

2254
03:31:10,970 --> 03:31:13,930
And to again, reflect what is currently happening within our

2255
03:31:13,970 --> 03:31:16,570
services. Uh, I do want to flag that it's my

2256
03:31:16,610 --> 03:31:21,210
understanding it's not illegal for someone to enter facility and

2257
03:31:21,210 --> 03:31:24,170
for this specific example shelter provider. If they're under the

2258
03:31:24,210 --> 03:31:26,450
influence or if they have drugs in their body. So

2259
03:31:26,450 --> 03:31:29,190
I hear there's some discussion about whether or not, you

2260
03:31:29,190 --> 03:31:32,250
know, we're following legislation, but it's not illegal for someone

2261
03:31:32,290 --> 03:31:36,410
to enter that building. Additionally, it's my understanding that shelters

2262
03:31:36,450 --> 03:31:39,690
also have human rights considerations. And as addiction is protected

2263
03:31:39,711 --> 03:31:43,130
as a disability under the Ontario Human Rights Code for

2264
03:31:43,151 --> 03:31:46,570
shelter providers to deny people access to their services because

2265
03:31:46,570 --> 03:31:49,690
they might have an addiction actually puts that at jeopardy

2266
03:31:49,730 --> 03:31:51,370
as well. And I don't think that we want to

2267
03:31:51,410 --> 03:31:54,330
have any claims about not being able to accommodate disabilities

2268
03:31:54,370 --> 03:31:57,130
within our community. Uh, so again, just want to say

2269
03:31:57,130 --> 03:31:59,530
thank you to staff for updating these guidelines. And I

2270
03:31:59,530 --> 03:32:03,130
think they'll be, um, despite some folks not perhaps agreeing

2271
03:32:03,130 --> 03:32:06,010
with a harm reduction approach. I think they'll be helpful

2272
03:32:06,031 --> 03:32:09,050
for the Commute to understand what staff are doing and

2273
03:32:09,151 --> 03:32:14,856
what our providers are doing as well. Council Ketty. Thank

2274
03:32:14,896 --> 03:32:17,896
you worship and through you. Um, question for staff. Mr.

2275
03:32:17,917 --> 03:32:21,176
Dickens, do we have any information on if this is

2276
03:32:21,176 --> 03:32:23,816
an ongoing problem or is isolated cases where people are

2277
03:32:24,157 --> 03:32:27,896
consuming drugs while they're into shelters? Because if it's not,

2278
03:32:27,936 --> 03:32:30,216
it may be nice. If it's isolated, maybe it's a

2279
03:32:30,237 --> 03:32:32,376
tempest and a teapot and it's something we really don't

2280
03:32:32,416 --> 03:32:36,366
need to be concerned with. But if it is more

2281
03:32:36,406 --> 03:32:38,846
than that, perhaps it is something we need to discuss.

2282
03:32:38,846 --> 03:32:48,438
Thank you. Mr. Dickens. Thank

2283
03:32:48,438 --> 03:32:52,598
you. And through your worship, I would, um, I would

2284
03:32:52,619 --> 03:32:54,998
adventure to say that, uh, this is a problem that's

2285
03:32:55,019 --> 03:32:59,058
widespread across the province emergency shelters, uh, from Niagara, uh,

2286
03:32:59,579 --> 03:33:03,478
through, uh, through northern Ontario, uh, especially northern Ontario are

2287
03:33:03,499 --> 03:33:06,918
dealing with these same challenges. Um, trying to manage a

2288
03:33:06,918 --> 03:33:10,198
drug crisis, um, and I want to make sure I'm

2289
03:33:10,238 --> 03:33:16,963
very clear. Organisations can discharge people. They can restrict people,

2290
03:33:16,963 --> 03:33:20,243
uh, for a number of reasons. Uh, it's just coming

2291
03:33:20,283 --> 03:33:25,043
in, uh, with suspected possession of drugs or under the

2292
03:33:25,083 --> 03:33:27,923
influence would not be the sole grounds. If that person

2293
03:33:28,104 --> 03:33:33,043
again is, is trafficking or disruptive or using, um, it

2294
03:33:33,043 --> 03:33:35,043
may lead to a discharge. It may lead to service

2295
03:33:35,083 --> 03:33:38,003
restrictions. What we're really trying to ask service providers to

2296
03:33:38,043 --> 03:33:41,843
do, which they are essentially doing now, is we want

2297
03:33:41,843 --> 03:33:45,710
to create a point of intervention. Uh, to provide someone

2298
03:33:46,051 --> 03:33:49,550
a therapeutic path or recovery. And we can't do that,

2299
03:33:49,550 --> 03:33:51,390
uh, if we keep locking the doors on them and

2300
03:33:51,430 --> 03:33:53,630
asking them not to come in because they have an

2301
03:33:53,630 --> 03:33:55,471
act of addiction. If we can get them in the

2302
03:33:55,511 --> 03:33:58,591
door, um, we can work with them. And if they're

2303
03:33:58,631 --> 03:34:02,111
under the influence, shelter providers can try to provide them,

2304
03:34:02,111 --> 03:34:04,671
uh, a safe space and try to work with them,

2305
03:34:04,671 --> 03:34:06,271
uh, time and time again to get to that point

2306
03:34:06,292 --> 03:34:09,471
where we can make referrals. As it talks about in

2307
03:34:09,572 --> 03:34:14,591
our report, refers to therapeutic services and recovery services and

2308
03:34:14,591 --> 03:34:16,671
addiction and mental health services. We want to get people

2309
03:34:16,772 --> 03:34:19,711
on a path to recovery. Um, we talk about the

2310
03:34:19,751 --> 03:34:22,751
drug problems. We're really focusing at the front door of

2311
03:34:22,791 --> 03:34:26,544
an emergency shelter. As being the pain point. Uh, in

2312
03:34:26,544 --> 03:34:28,384
a community that has a drug crisis, it would be

2313
03:34:28,424 --> 03:34:32,544
great to stem the flow of drugs into our community.

2314
03:34:32,544 --> 03:34:35,104
The police would be a great resource to do that.

2315
03:34:35,104 --> 03:34:38,304
Or to stem the trafficking activity that happens within our

2316
03:34:38,344 --> 03:34:43,184
community. Um, upstream versus just focusing on someone looking for

2317
03:34:43,224 --> 03:34:45,929
a place to sleep. So to answer your question, this

2318
03:34:45,950 --> 03:34:49,849
is a very pervasive problem, not just in London, across

2319
03:34:49,870 --> 03:34:54,089
Ontario, across Canada, uh, regardless of what policy is in

2320
03:34:54,089 --> 03:35:01,640
place. Go ahead, Councillor. You good? Okay. Thank you. I

2321
03:35:01,741 --> 03:35:08,744
have, uh, Councillor Hopkins next. Yeah. Um, I know we've

2322
03:35:08,784 --> 03:35:11,384
got the amendment in front of us. So I will

2323
03:35:11,384 --> 03:35:14,184
speak to the amendment and I'll make my comments to,

2324
03:35:14,224 --> 03:35:17,684
to the main motion. I won't supporting the amendment. Um,

2325
03:35:17,805 --> 03:35:21,624
even though I do appreciate the conversation here, uh, I

2326
03:35:21,664 --> 03:35:26,344
do want to say though, first of all, thanks to

2327
03:35:26,765 --> 03:35:30,744
staff for modernizing our guidelines, I think that is what

2328
03:35:30,784 --> 03:35:34,984
we needed to do here. I really do appreciate the

2329
03:35:35,325 --> 03:35:42,717
focus being more on housing focused. Getting people into places.

2330
03:35:42,717 --> 03:35:45,437
And I want to thank the agencies I know you

2331
03:35:45,477 --> 03:35:50,637
had a delegation at committee from unity project. It was,

2332
03:35:50,637 --> 03:35:53,517
uh, them sharing their experience. And one of the things

2333
03:35:53,698 --> 03:35:58,717
I got out of that, uh, delegation was the understanding

2334
03:35:58,978 --> 03:36:06,877
that compassion and the ability to, uh, still be accountable.

2335
03:36:06,877 --> 03:36:10,537
I think that is where the focus is going. And

2336
03:36:10,738 --> 03:36:15,597
I get that, um, there needs to be still accountability,

2337
03:36:15,597 --> 03:36:18,557
but we can still do with compassion. And my third

2338
03:36:18,597 --> 03:36:21,997
point, while I'm standing, I just want to say the,

2339
03:36:22,018 --> 03:36:25,277
the challenges that we have as a municipality as much

2340
03:36:25,458 --> 03:36:30,477
as we can update a guidelines modernize the need for,

2341
03:36:30,477 --> 03:36:33,597
uh, funding, uh, from the provincial government, I think when

2342
03:36:33,597 --> 03:36:37,177
it comes to not only mental health, but addiction, um,

2343
03:36:37,858 --> 03:36:43,757
supports the other part is the, uh, Affordability. We see

2344
03:36:43,778 --> 03:36:46,597
it in our guidelines. We want people in places. We

2345
03:36:46,658 --> 03:36:52,957
need these buildings built and the operational, uh, dollars that

2346
03:36:53,058 --> 03:36:56,957
go with that to, to make them successful. So many

2347
03:36:56,978 --> 03:37:04,824
thanks to staff. Council Rahman. I thank you and through

2348
03:37:04,824 --> 03:37:06,984
you to staff. Um, I'm just wondering if I can

2349
03:37:06,984 --> 03:37:13,384
get some answers on the amendment for part I'm just

2350
03:37:13,424 --> 03:37:16,424
wanting to clarify what house staff interpret this.

2351
03:38:13,357 --> 03:38:16,027
Okay, go ahead. The rear worship. Um, this would actually

2352
03:38:16,768 --> 03:38:19,787
breed differently from what we're proposing in the current shelter

2353
03:38:19,787 --> 03:38:23,547
guidelines that are before you're proposing that if clients do

2354
03:38:23,587 --> 03:38:26,427
have possession or substances in their possession at the time

2355
03:38:26,427 --> 03:38:28,827
of their intake that they are not, uh, to be

2356
03:38:28,867 --> 03:38:32,887
immediately denied access to the shelter, um, this particular, um,

2357
03:38:34,608 --> 03:38:37,707
phrase reads almost conversely to that, that if they do

2358
03:38:37,808 --> 03:38:41,787
have, um, any substances in their possession during the time

2359
03:38:41,787 --> 03:38:44,107
of the intake that they would be prohibited from accessing

2360
03:38:44,147 --> 03:38:46,907
shelter, which would be, uh, and contravention to what we're

2361
03:38:46,947 --> 03:38:53,157
proposing into just the research behind harm reduction policies. Thank

2362
03:38:53,197 --> 03:38:56,277
you, three, that my question is for the chair. This

2363
03:38:56,277 --> 03:38:59,676
motion then appears to be contrary. To what was brought

2364
03:38:59,697 --> 03:39:04,596
forward by the committee. Okay, give me a sec.

2365
03:40:35,686 --> 03:40:39,105
Okay Councillor, let me just, uh, do a ruling on

2366
03:40:39,105 --> 03:40:43,425
this. So I understand your question about, um, within the

2367
03:40:43,465 --> 03:40:47,345
shelter guidelines, uh, the counselor's direction may be counter to

2368
03:40:47,385 --> 03:40:51,164
some of the pieces within the guidelines. The motion that's

2369
03:40:51,164 --> 03:40:56,364
before us is ABC update the emergencies shelter guidelines as

2370
03:40:56,404 --> 03:40:59,964
appended. Direct them to implement the guidelines, be authorized to

2371
03:40:59,964 --> 03:41:05,852
make further administrative updates. In the motion to amend. It

2372
03:41:05,852 --> 03:41:09,252
needs to not propose a direct negative to the main

2373
03:41:09,273 --> 03:41:12,466
motion. Given the main piece of this is to implement

2374
03:41:12,487 --> 03:41:15,666
the guidelines. I don't see it as counter to make

2375
03:41:16,407 --> 03:41:20,786
some adjustments to the internal proceedings of the guidelines and

2376
03:41:20,786 --> 03:41:24,706
the document, even if it's something that may be different.

2377
03:41:24,706 --> 03:41:27,426
So I think it's probably important for Council to have

2378
03:41:27,767 --> 03:41:31,186
this debate and have clarity on the components of the

2379
03:41:31,207 --> 03:41:35,266
guidelines. And so I'm going to, I would rule that

2380
03:41:35,266 --> 03:41:38,626
the amendment can stand based on the components of the

2381
03:41:38,727 --> 03:41:42,546
main motion before us. Um, but I would recognise that

2382
03:41:42,567 --> 03:41:45,186
this is a different direction than what staff put in

2383
03:41:45,186 --> 03:41:48,626
the emergency guidelines and Council could amend it to take

2384
03:41:48,666 --> 03:41:51,586
a different direction. So, um, I'm happy to be challenged

2385
03:41:51,586 --> 03:41:53,666
on that if someone feels they should, but I'm going

2386
03:41:53,666 --> 03:41:57,755
to, I'm going to allow the motion to proceed. Thank

2387
03:41:57,755 --> 03:41:59,435
you and through you. And I do feel it's an

2388
03:41:59,475 --> 03:42:02,475
important discussion. And so, um, I'm not going to challenge

2389
03:42:02,496 --> 03:42:05,515
the chair on it. But I will say that I

2390
03:42:05,515 --> 03:42:09,435
think what is interpreted versus what is written is two

2391
03:42:09,475 --> 03:42:14,075
different things. I read this asking that the guideline be

2392
03:42:14,075 --> 03:42:17,108
silent on the matter. And so if it's an issue

2393
03:42:17,209 --> 03:42:21,028
of being silent, I could be supportive of it being

2394
03:42:21,049 --> 03:42:27,978
silent. But if it's interpreted as now no longer, as

2395
03:42:27,978 --> 03:42:31,698
sorry, the 2011 version now, then I have a different

2396
03:42:32,599 --> 03:42:35,618
opinion. So that's what I'm trying to understand and make

2397
03:42:35,618 --> 03:42:41,634
my decision on. And so I read this as remove

2398
03:42:41,674 --> 03:42:45,074
what's in the 2026 guideline, but don't go back to

2399
03:42:45,114 --> 03:42:47,154
the 2011. Is that fair?

2400
03:43:04,862 --> 03:43:06,921
Thank you, worship. I don't know if it's as clean

2401
03:43:06,961 --> 03:43:10,191
cut as what we're hoping for here. Um, we're trying

2402
03:43:10,191 --> 03:43:12,831
to talk about admissions into an emergency shelter. And this

2403
03:43:12,852 --> 03:43:16,628
is focusing on possession of illegal drugs. And if we're

2404
03:43:16,649 --> 03:43:20,628
silent on it, I worry that every shelter provider is

2405
03:43:20,628 --> 03:43:23,361
going to have a different interpretation of it. Um, and

2406
03:43:23,782 --> 03:43:28,481
we might run a foul of inconsistencies or discrepancies and

2407
03:43:28,502 --> 03:43:30,881
be right back before you, but why everyone's doing it

2408
03:43:30,881 --> 03:43:32,961
differently. Um, and so I wish I had a more

2409
03:43:32,961 --> 03:43:37,361
clear answer, but this seems to focus more on permitting

2410
03:43:37,622 --> 03:43:42,081
illegal substances when we're talking about, um, grounds and requirements

2411
03:43:42,182 --> 03:43:45,601
for, for bringing people indoors and admitting them into event.

2412
03:43:49,378 --> 03:43:52,397
Okay. Thank you. Uh, I will mull that over for

2413
03:43:52,437 --> 03:43:56,237
part two, um, I'm just wondering again, how to staff

2414
03:43:56,277 --> 03:43:59,917
interpret this. Because again, from a human rights perspective, this

2415
03:44:00,338 --> 03:44:04,857
reads differently for me than perhaps, um, some of the

2416
03:44:04,857 --> 03:44:07,997
other guidelines around, or sorry, some of the other things

2417
03:44:08,098 --> 03:44:12,671
in the guidelines around restricting access. This, I just, I

2418
03:44:12,671 --> 03:44:21,471
need some clarity on how this is being interpreted. Go

2419
03:44:21,471 --> 03:44:26,046
ahead. Through your worship, yes, this would again speak to

2420
03:44:26,046 --> 03:44:29,326
that admission piece that we're making it clear to shelter

2421
03:44:29,427 --> 03:44:33,526
operators that when it comes to admission that based on

2422
03:44:33,526 --> 03:44:36,126
the fact that someone may have substances in their possession,

2423
03:44:36,126 --> 03:44:40,366
potentially for substance use disorder or managing withdrawal symptoms as

2424
03:44:40,406 --> 03:44:44,606
it was mentioned earlier, a potential disability that's code protected,

2425
03:44:44,606 --> 03:44:47,726
um, we're making it clear to shelter operators that that

2426
03:44:47,907 --> 03:44:53,246
alone, um, isn't necessarily grounds for denial to the shelter.

2427
03:44:53,246 --> 03:44:55,726
Um, and the way we have it currently worded in

2428
03:44:55,726 --> 03:44:59,406
the shelter guidelines would provide clarity to that, that section.

2429
03:44:59,406 --> 03:45:03,006
Um, this particular, um, phrase that we're looking at would,

2430
03:45:03,006 --> 03:45:04,446
um, just leads to the other point that we spoke

2431
03:45:04,446 --> 03:45:11,233
about with ambiguity for shelter operators. Council Rahmen. Okay. Thank

2432
03:45:11,233 --> 03:45:13,073
you. And through you, I think I'll listen to the

2433
03:45:13,073 --> 03:45:16,813
rest of the discussion, but, um, I'm hoping that, uh,

2434
03:45:16,813 --> 03:45:26,441
these can all be called separately. Okay. Um, other speakers,

2435
03:45:26,441 --> 03:45:27,001
uh, to this matter.

2436
03:46:18,732 --> 03:46:20,951
Okay. Um, now I have some questions. So I'm going

2437
03:46:20,951 --> 03:46:25,102
to turn the show over to De Mary Lewis. Uh,

2438
03:46:25,102 --> 03:46:27,662
thank you, your worship. I will take the chair and

2439
03:46:27,702 --> 03:46:33,933
please go ahead. Yes. So just I want to go

2440
03:46:33,973 --> 03:46:36,733
off of what Council Ramen said because I, I'm still

2441
03:46:36,754 --> 03:46:42,234
a little unclear on the question. Um. Part, but my

2442
03:46:42,255 --> 03:46:46,287
question is more about part two. Part two seems to

2443
03:46:46,788 --> 03:46:52,447
suggest that within the guidelines, um, that there's no ability

2444
03:46:52,788 --> 03:46:57,567
to discharge for use. And my reading of the guidelines

2445
03:46:57,988 --> 03:47:01,302
was that that's not the case. Um, you can discharge

2446
03:47:01,883 --> 03:47:04,662
for using my conversation with some of the shelter providers

2447
03:47:04,923 --> 03:47:08,262
is they do do that. Um, and so at part

2448
03:47:08,262 --> 03:47:10,182
two, doesn't make a lot of sense to me because

2449
03:47:11,003 --> 03:47:13,942
it, I believe it's already possible within the guidelines. I

2450
03:47:13,942 --> 03:47:15,782
think there is a line in there about, you know,

2451
03:47:16,603 --> 03:47:20,182
try to help the person first. Perhaps connect them with

2452
03:47:20,203 --> 03:47:22,902
services or something rather than discharge right away. I know

2453
03:47:23,243 --> 03:47:26,102
some providers have that right in, but just some clarification

2454
03:47:26,142 --> 03:47:30,022
on what is like actually happening. If someone uses in

2455
03:47:30,022 --> 03:47:34,251
a shelter, can they be discharged by the provider? Mr.

2456
03:47:34,272 --> 03:47:38,681
Dickens. Thank you through you, Mr. President Officer. Um, yes,

2457
03:47:38,681 --> 03:47:41,321
they can be. They can be discharged. Uh, what this

2458
03:47:41,342 --> 03:47:45,621
is updating is to recognise the prevalence and the, uh,

2459
03:47:46,622 --> 03:47:49,321
number of occurrences in which that can happen in daily

2460
03:47:49,321 --> 03:47:52,918
life. Uh, you would spend all day discharging people and

2461
03:47:52,918 --> 03:47:56,198
no time supporting people. And that's a wide generalization and

2462
03:47:56,198 --> 03:47:58,598
broad stroke just to give you some context of the

2463
03:47:58,598 --> 03:48:02,978
scale of the problem that's affecting shelters across Ontario. Uh,

2464
03:48:03,339 --> 03:48:06,038
what we are saying is you, you can still discharge

2465
03:48:06,059 --> 03:48:12,532
a person. Absolutely. And if there's, uh, reason to, uh,

2466
03:48:12,893 --> 03:48:16,692
discharge a person, we expect that it's well documented. Uh,

2467
03:48:16,813 --> 03:48:19,592
that it has come from every attempt to support that

2468
03:48:19,693 --> 03:48:23,352
person first. And again, the, the more that shelter providers

2469
03:48:23,373 --> 03:48:26,552
can engage with a person in that moment, uh, provide

2470
03:48:26,552 --> 03:48:30,952
them pathways to better options, better supports, um, the better

2471
03:48:30,952 --> 03:48:32,812
we are off as a community. And that person is

2472
03:48:33,213 --> 03:48:37,432
better off. Uh, whereas, uh, discharging at the first site

2473
03:48:38,013 --> 03:48:41,832
of a suspected, uh, addiction or someone who may be

2474
03:48:41,832 --> 03:48:45,112
under the influence. If they're posing no harm to anyone,

2475
03:48:45,112 --> 03:48:47,832
um, would be in our minds a little bit callous

2476
03:48:48,093 --> 03:48:50,712
to, to, uh, discharge the moat to the streets when

2477
03:48:50,752 --> 03:48:55,012
they're posing no harm. So we're asking folks, uh, that

2478
03:48:55,012 --> 03:48:57,092
can't be the sole criteria that you're asked to leave

2479
03:48:57,113 --> 03:49:01,252
a shelter. It could, you could be discharged. Again, if

2480
03:49:01,252 --> 03:49:04,132
you're showing up in your trafficking and you're disruptive and

2481
03:49:04,132 --> 03:49:07,572
you're violent and there's concerns and you're using repeatedly, you're

2482
03:49:07,673 --> 03:49:10,457
going to be asked to leave. However, if you're in

2483
03:49:10,457 --> 03:49:12,377
the door and you're in the building and you're under

2484
03:49:12,377 --> 03:49:15,577
the influence, we want staff to safely engage with you.

2485
03:49:15,577 --> 03:49:18,217
And if it's a repeated occurrence, they better be putting

2486
03:49:18,798 --> 03:49:22,057
safety plans in place, care plans in place, start talking

2487
03:49:22,057 --> 03:49:25,555
about referral pathways. And the addiction's world, folks need to

2488
03:49:25,555 --> 03:49:28,035
be at least pre - contemplative that they want help.

2489
03:49:28,925 --> 03:49:31,064
Uh, and so when they're in our care or in

2490
03:49:31,064 --> 03:49:32,584
the care of a shelter provider, we want to get

2491
03:49:32,584 --> 03:49:35,304
them to that state where they start to contemplate the

2492
03:49:35,344 --> 03:49:37,544
idea that they might want help. And we do that

2493
03:49:37,565 --> 03:49:41,160
best. If they're permitted in to have a spot to

2494
03:49:41,200 --> 03:49:43,080
sleep than if we tell them to go away. That

2495
03:49:43,181 --> 03:49:46,547
is what this guidelines is trying to communicate. We're here

2496
03:49:46,547 --> 03:49:48,627
to help people. We want to help as many people

2497
03:49:48,808 --> 03:49:51,347
as possible. And asking them to leave at the first

2498
03:49:51,368 --> 03:49:54,147
sight of an addiction is not conductive to doing that.

2499
03:49:58,403 --> 03:50:06,129
Councillor Stevenson. This amendment is very clear about its substance

2500
03:50:06,230 --> 03:50:10,449
use inside the shelter. So this, you know, the all

2501
03:50:10,449 --> 03:50:12,689
kinds of stuff in it that talks about people have

2502
03:50:12,689 --> 03:50:16,209
substance use. You can't be discharged for that reason. All

2503
03:50:16,209 --> 03:50:18,529
that kind of stuff. I'm not touching that. This is

2504
03:50:19,030 --> 03:50:21,862
one sentence. And I can tell you it's on page

2505
03:50:22,363 --> 03:50:26,102
176 or the back or the bottom of page 44

2506
03:50:26,203 --> 03:50:31,042
within the shelter guidelines. And it says emergency shelter, uh,

2507
03:50:31,163 --> 03:50:37,062
providers will not discharge participants or impose service restrictions based

2508
03:50:37,062 --> 03:50:41,142
on substance use on or off site. I didn't even

2509
03:50:41,323 --> 03:50:46,028
put the offsite into this. I just don't want to

2510
03:50:46,369 --> 03:50:50,748
restrict the discharge or service restrictions for somebody using those

2511
03:50:50,929 --> 03:50:55,468
illegal substances inside the taxpayer funded shelter. All of the

2512
03:50:55,468 --> 03:50:57,708
other stuff that's being mentioned here is part of the

2513
03:50:57,889 --> 03:51:01,948
guidelines and I'm not touching that at all. Okay. Councillor.

2514
03:51:02,496 --> 03:51:05,275
I know you said point of whatever. Um, I'm going

2515
03:51:05,275 --> 03:51:07,639
to rule that as a point of personal privilege. Um,

2516
03:51:07,820 --> 03:51:09,319
not as a point of order because it's not a

2517
03:51:09,340 --> 03:51:13,959
procedural matter. Um, you're calling a point of personal privilege

2518
03:51:13,980 --> 03:51:17,399
because you believe that you your intent was being misrepresented.

2519
03:51:17,399 --> 03:51:19,959
And so, uh, I'm going to rule that as a

2520
03:51:19,959 --> 03:51:22,519
point of personal privilege. You have made your statement to

2521
03:51:22,620 --> 03:51:25,719
correct your intention. So I'm going to deal deem that

2522
03:51:25,759 --> 03:51:30,358
dealt with. And I'm going to return to Mayor Morgan.

2523
03:51:34,658 --> 03:51:38,676
Okay. Appreciate that. Um. So I'm going to say a

2524
03:51:38,676 --> 03:51:42,216
few things on this. So first, um, I did take

2525
03:51:42,216 --> 03:51:44,696
the time to speak to all the shelter providers. Pretty

2526
03:51:44,696 --> 03:51:47,256
easy to give them a call and ask some questions

2527
03:51:47,296 --> 03:51:51,016
about how they operate. Currently and their engagement on the

2528
03:51:51,056 --> 03:51:53,256
guidelines and whether or not they're supportive of them and

2529
03:51:53,256 --> 03:51:55,496
the answer that I got was yes. Uh, it is

2530
03:51:55,496 --> 03:51:58,356
how they operate today. Um, you know, one of the

2531
03:51:58,356 --> 03:52:00,936
interesting things that came up in my discussions with them

2532
03:52:00,957 --> 03:52:06,779
was the challenge with being silent on. Letting someone know

2533
03:52:06,819 --> 03:52:10,410
that they can come in the door. If the one

2534
03:52:10,410 --> 03:52:15,875
who uses. Gets away from the opportunity to intervene in

2535
03:52:15,896 --> 03:52:19,635
those individuals'lives. The Salvation Army, for example, co - locate

2536
03:52:19,635 --> 03:52:22,915
services. They have low barrier shelter services, but they also

2537
03:52:22,915 --> 03:52:27,475
have withdrawal management recovery community centre. Uh, and they have

2538
03:52:27,475 --> 03:52:31,955
the hard hub. And my discussion with them was they

2539
03:52:32,296 --> 03:52:35,075
see the Lowry shelter as an entry point into connecting

2540
03:52:35,096 --> 03:52:38,595
people with services. So sometimes people do have a drug

2541
03:52:38,595 --> 03:52:41,155
addiction. They will come in the doors. Uh, they may

2542
03:52:41,256 --> 03:52:43,835
be a user. And then they intervene with them. In

2543
03:52:43,835 --> 03:52:46,355
some cases that person decides to go into the draw

2544
03:52:46,395 --> 03:52:48,807
management program. In some cases, it works for them. In

2545
03:52:48,807 --> 03:52:50,367
some cases, they don't. And they might return to low

2546
03:52:50,407 --> 03:52:52,927
barrier shelter. In some cases, they connect into the recovery

2547
03:52:52,948 --> 03:52:56,487
centre because they progressed along through the withdrawal program. In

2548
03:52:56,487 --> 03:52:58,527
some cases, they may be connected with the hard hub.

2549
03:52:58,567 --> 03:53:02,927
There are some abstinent space programs working alongside other programs

2550
03:53:03,508 --> 03:53:05,567
to try to bring people in the doors and capture

2551
03:53:05,607 --> 03:53:09,727
them. The problem that the challenge with this motion is

2552
03:53:09,748 --> 03:53:13,167
I'd like, I totally understand the Councilor's intent. Um, it's

2553
03:53:13,508 --> 03:53:17,007
a, it's a politically challenging motion because it's really easy

2554
03:53:17,028 --> 03:53:21,407
to box it into a space and say, this is

2555
03:53:21,407 --> 03:53:24,847
what we're doing. But the consequences, I'm concerned about it.

2556
03:53:24,847 --> 03:53:30,607
If we don't particularly on I, if we don't let

2557
03:53:30,628 --> 03:53:32,527
people know that they can come in and get help.

2558
03:53:32,527 --> 03:53:35,167
And if we can't engage with them, there's probably going

2559
03:53:35,167 --> 03:53:37,466
to be more people out on the street. Like more

2560
03:53:37,506 --> 03:53:39,466
people who will just, you know, what I'm not going

2561
03:53:39,466 --> 03:53:41,066
to show up to the shelter. Less people to intervene

2562
03:53:41,106 --> 03:53:42,986
with. This is the, these are the concerns that I

2563
03:53:43,026 --> 03:53:45,946
heard from some of the shelter providers. They want to

2564
03:53:45,967 --> 03:53:47,866
engage with people. They want to try to connect them

2565
03:53:47,906 --> 03:53:50,346
with services. Some people are ready for that. Some people

2566
03:53:50,346 --> 03:53:55,860
aren't. To the residents in the area. Might not be

2567
03:53:55,881 --> 03:53:59,628
supportive of the guidelines. If people don't feel they can

2568
03:53:59,628 --> 03:54:01,868
go indoors into a shelter, they're going to stay outdoors

2569
03:54:02,769 --> 03:54:06,151
in parks and doorways. And on the street. And I

2570
03:54:06,151 --> 03:54:08,791
think ultimately we want is to connect people with services.

2571
03:54:08,791 --> 03:54:12,151
I think we're relatively, you know, on the same page

2572
03:54:12,191 --> 03:54:14,951
on that. You know, it's part of the reason why,

2573
03:54:14,951 --> 03:54:16,791
you know, the calls for the province to invest in

2574
03:54:16,831 --> 03:54:20,551
more, you know, voluntary treatment services to be available so

2575
03:54:20,591 --> 03:54:21,911
that when people are ready, they don't have to wait

2576
03:54:21,911 --> 03:54:24,051
for a long period, you know, that they could have

2577
03:54:24,051 --> 03:54:26,311
that. Like the challenges we don't have some of those

2578
03:54:26,332 --> 03:54:29,031
referral points. So people are going to be indoors or

2579
03:54:29,031 --> 03:54:30,071
they're going to be outdoors. They're going to be connected

2580
03:54:30,111 --> 03:54:33,591
with people or they're not. Um, we have some challenges

2581
03:54:33,612 --> 03:54:36,611
here. So it's very difficult to figure out, you know,

2582
03:54:36,732 --> 03:54:38,871
what to do with all the parts of this motion.

2583
03:54:38,871 --> 03:54:41,591
Because again, I think there are the actual practices that

2584
03:54:41,591 --> 03:54:45,068
the shelters are doing. We don't want to create through

2585
03:54:46,529 --> 03:54:48,108
the, we don't want to create the perception that people

2586
03:54:48,108 --> 03:54:51,148
shouldn't be coming and asking for help coming indures, getting

2587
03:54:51,409 --> 03:54:55,001
emergency shelter. Um, protecting themselves from all elements or whatever

2588
03:54:55,041 --> 03:54:58,681
else sleeping outdoors. All the things that emergency shelter provides

2589
03:54:58,681 --> 03:55:03,641
them with because they may have a possession substance on

2590
03:55:03,681 --> 03:55:07,541
them. If they're tracking, if they're doing the things that

2591
03:55:07,581 --> 03:55:09,781
Mr. Dickens said, yeah, for sure they should be considered

2592
03:55:09,802 --> 03:55:11,941
to be banned, right? You've got to protect the other

2593
03:55:11,981 --> 03:55:15,461
people in the shelter. But for me, I have a

2594
03:55:15,461 --> 03:55:18,501
challenge with I because I don't want to put, I

2595
03:55:18,501 --> 03:55:19,701
don't want to give people the impression that they can't

2596
03:55:19,701 --> 03:55:21,681
get help. When they need it. And if they need

2597
03:55:21,681 --> 03:55:23,681
to come indorst to get help, because again, they need

2598
03:55:23,681 --> 03:55:25,361
to be in a shelter. And then we can connect

2599
03:55:25,542 --> 03:55:28,001
with services. I'd rather them be there than I would

2600
03:55:28,001 --> 03:55:30,961
on the streets. So, uh, the other pieces I'm thinking

2601
03:55:30,961 --> 03:55:33,821
about I want to hear colleagues thoughts on, but, um,

2602
03:55:34,182 --> 03:55:37,121
but I think I is moving the wrong direction because

2603
03:55:37,121 --> 03:55:42,182
I think it leaves people outdoors. Uh, thank you Mayor

2604
03:55:42,182 --> 03:55:44,706
Morgan and that was right on your time. I will

2605
03:55:44,746 --> 03:55:48,754
return the chair to you. I don't have any other

2606
03:55:48,855 --> 03:55:51,634
speakers at the moment, but I'm happy to put my

2607
03:55:51,674 --> 03:55:53,314
own name on the speaker's list because I have a

2608
03:55:53,314 --> 03:55:57,711
question now resulting from some other comments. Sure. Well, you

2609
03:55:57,711 --> 03:55:58,891
know what? Then you're on the list and you can

2610
03:55:58,891 --> 03:56:04,376
go ahead. Okay. So I'm going to focus. I was

2611
03:56:04,376 --> 03:56:06,836
interested in what Council Ramen said about remaining silent on

2612
03:56:06,876 --> 03:56:10,920
some things. And I heard Mr. Dickens'answer. But I do

2613
03:56:10,941 --> 03:56:15,851
wonder why. We couldn't allow different emergency shelter providers to

2614
03:56:15,872 --> 03:56:20,151
have different guidelines. Uh, so if a service provider, uh,

2615
03:56:20,272 --> 03:56:21,691
and I'm not saying that they, they want to do

2616
03:56:21,691 --> 03:56:24,811
this, but I'm using, I'm going to use the arc

2617
03:56:24,811 --> 03:56:26,491
as an example because Ms. Campbell is in my line

2618
03:56:26,531 --> 03:56:28,891
of sight here. So, uh, let's say the arc wanted

2619
03:56:29,392 --> 03:56:33,211
to say the first, you know, the beds at Bishop

2620
03:56:33,251 --> 03:56:41,142
Cronin. Were zero tolerance for illegal substances, but the emergency

2621
03:56:41,323 --> 03:56:44,662
beds, uh, they sometimes set up in the basement. They're

2622
03:56:44,702 --> 03:56:47,942
more flexible on or at 696 Dundas. They're more flexible

2623
03:56:47,942 --> 03:56:51,542
on. Um, why could we not allow shelter providers to

2624
03:56:51,542 --> 03:56:53,782
choose their own approach to this and then simply have

2625
03:56:53,782 --> 03:56:55,942
them communicate that to us as part of their contract.

2626
03:56:56,899 --> 03:57:00,798
And list these are the shelters that allow, uh, possession.

2627
03:57:00,798 --> 03:57:03,358
These are the shelters that are zero tolerance for possession.

2628
03:57:09,742 --> 03:57:13,867
Go ahead. Thank you, Richard. B. Fair question. Uh, these

2629
03:57:14,048 --> 03:57:16,827
guidelines are meant to apply to a low barrier emergency

2630
03:57:16,848 --> 03:57:20,189
shelters. And so we have recovery services. The marriage is

2631
03:57:20,229 --> 03:57:24,349
highlighted a couple through emission services, salvation army. In your

2632
03:57:24,389 --> 03:57:26,109
example would prove to be another one where you would

2633
03:57:26,149 --> 03:57:31,069
have, uh, the low barrier emergency shelters following these guidelines,

2634
03:57:31,069 --> 03:57:35,149
uh, and there may be other recovery oriented programs that

2635
03:57:35,170 --> 03:57:39,629
would follow whatever, uh, their mandated service would be. So,

2636
03:57:39,629 --> 03:57:42,189
uh, it is possible, but we were looking, if the

2637
03:57:42,290 --> 03:57:44,229
arc were to be contracted and said, I want to

2638
03:57:44,229 --> 03:57:46,909
be an emergency shelter, we would ask them to follow

2639
03:57:46,930 --> 03:57:54,266
the emergency shelter guidelines. Go ahead. So I

2640
03:57:54,447 --> 03:57:58,586
wonder. And Mr. Dickens will know the individual that I'm

2641
03:57:58,607 --> 03:58:01,466
referring to because we both interacted with that individual over

2642
03:58:01,506 --> 03:58:05,066
the years. Uh, but I've certainly heard from, uh, an

2643
03:58:05,066 --> 03:58:09,366
outspoken letter who's experienced homelessness. Um, that one of the

2644
03:58:09,366 --> 03:58:14,746
reasons she didn't access shelter services is because she didn't

2645
03:58:14,746 --> 03:58:18,186
want to be around users. She wanted an emergency shelter

2646
03:58:18,226 --> 03:58:24,543
bed that was in an absence based, uh, location. And

2647
03:58:24,583 --> 03:58:28,543
instead, uh, her choices ended up being things like couch

2648
03:58:28,543 --> 03:58:32,783
surfing in less than, uh, ideal circumstances, um, and perhaps

2649
03:58:33,364 --> 03:58:39,263
potentially exposing to, uh, intimate partner violence in a couple

2650
03:58:39,263 --> 03:58:43,100
of cases. And so. This is where I struggle because

2651
03:58:43,100 --> 03:58:47,329
I don't know why we couldn't have both. Prohibited spaces

2652
03:58:48,070 --> 03:58:53,317
and spaces where we're not going to private. And I

2653
03:58:53,317 --> 03:58:58,357
don't know if the related to, uh, our own requirements

2654
03:58:58,378 --> 03:59:03,397
with province von staff can provide as to why we

2655
03:59:03,397 --> 03:59:06,977
can't have some of both. And that's presuming that a

2656
03:59:07,017 --> 03:59:10,817
shelter operator wants to do that, um, perhaps all of

2657
03:59:10,817 --> 03:59:13,377
our shelter operators in the city are fine with this.

2658
03:59:13,881 --> 03:59:17,540
But if we had one that wants to provide an

2659
03:59:17,641 --> 03:59:20,180
abstinence - based space so that those who don't want

2660
03:59:20,220 --> 03:59:25,079
to be exposed to users, uh, can feel safe. Like

2661
03:59:25,119 --> 03:59:32,490
how would that agency even approach us. Mr. Dickens. Absolutely.

2662
03:59:32,490 --> 03:59:34,490
Uh, three years absolutely. Uh, that would be done for

2663
03:59:34,530 --> 03:59:36,970
our procurement framework when we go to procure the shelter

2664
03:59:37,010 --> 03:59:41,610
system. Um, often, uh, it can be deterrent could be

2665
03:59:41,610 --> 03:59:44,170
the funding that's required. So you go abstinence - based

2666
03:59:44,170 --> 03:59:51,050
shelter. You often require detox services. Often those type of

2667
03:59:51,311 --> 03:59:53,690
absence - based or recovery - based shelters come with

2668
03:59:53,730 --> 03:59:58,090
medical staff. So there is a cost prohibition there that

2669
03:59:58,090 --> 04:00:00,170
can factor into this. But when we go to procure

2670
04:00:00,191 --> 04:00:03,690
the shelter system, if Council says we want a mix

2671
04:00:03,730 --> 04:00:06,730
of absence - based and low barrier, or we want

2672
04:00:06,751 --> 04:00:09,530
all recovery - based, we can do that work through

2673
04:00:09,570 --> 04:00:12,010
the procurement process and come back and show you what

2674
04:00:12,031 --> 04:00:14,890
the various models would cost and what that would look

2675
04:00:14,890 --> 04:00:20,626
like. So I guess to perhaps frame my question a

2676
04:00:20,626 --> 04:00:27,494
little more tightly under these guidelines. If we had a

2677
04:00:27,534 --> 04:00:32,171
service provider approach us. And say, I've read your guidelines,

2678
04:00:32,211 --> 04:00:34,908
I'd be interested in being a provider. But I don't

2679
04:00:34,908 --> 04:00:39,679
want to allow any possession in our space. Like, I

2680
04:00:39,700 --> 04:00:42,799
want to know from our staff if a provider could

2681
04:00:42,900 --> 04:00:45,599
come forward themselves rather than it being part of a

2682
04:00:45,700 --> 04:00:49,119
procurement thing that we do. Um, and say, we want

2683
04:00:49,119 --> 04:00:52,239
to offer this. It's our choice. We want to offer

2684
04:00:52,420 --> 04:00:55,519
it as an abstinence - based space for emergency shelter.

2685
04:00:55,519 --> 04:00:57,919
Wood staff then bring that forward to us as an

2686
04:00:57,919 --> 04:01:01,839
option to consider, um, voluntarily or with these guidelines in

2687
04:01:01,839 --> 04:01:08,277
place, would our procurement process automatically preclude them. From being

2688
04:01:09,658 --> 04:01:12,837
a potential tender for shelter spaces.

2689
04:01:26,890 --> 04:01:29,749
Through your worship, yes, if a provider did want to

2690
04:01:29,749 --> 04:01:33,189
offer recovery - based abstinence - based program, these guidelines

2691
04:01:33,210 --> 04:01:35,649
wouldn't apply to them. This is for emergency shelter, low

2692
04:01:35,690 --> 04:01:38,789
barrier programs, programs that are outside of that aren't specifically

2693
04:01:38,970 --> 04:01:41,509
spoken to in these guidelines, and that would be considered

2694
04:01:41,549 --> 04:01:43,749
to their contract process if they were deciding to run

2695
04:01:43,930 --> 04:01:46,869
a recovery - based program would build specific parameters within

2696
04:01:46,869 --> 04:01:52,288
their contract. I'm sorry, I'm not asking about recovery -

2697
04:01:52,288 --> 04:01:56,885
based. We have homeless folks who are not drug users

2698
04:01:57,066 --> 04:01:59,125
out on our streets who do not want to be

2699
04:01:59,165 --> 04:02:02,119
in the same space as those using drugs. So the

2700
04:02:02,220 --> 04:02:04,899
question is not about recovery - based programs. It's not

2701
04:02:04,899 --> 04:02:07,399
about detox. It's about what if a provider came forward

2702
04:02:07,500 --> 04:02:10,739
and said, I want to provide emergency shelter beds, but

2703
04:02:10,739 --> 04:02:12,759
I will only take folks off the street who are

2704
04:02:12,799 --> 04:02:17,069
not currently using. And would they then be able under

2705
04:02:17,109 --> 04:02:22,569
these guidelines to apply. Go ahead. Throw your worship. Those

2706
04:02:22,590 --> 04:02:26,569
would not be low barrier emergency shelter programs. The premise

2707
04:02:26,569 --> 04:02:29,369
behind a low barrier program is that for folks that

2708
04:02:29,409 --> 04:02:31,929
are not in a pre - contemplative stage to decide

2709
04:02:31,950 --> 04:02:36,169
about substances or any life circumstances that we limit the

2710
04:02:36,209 --> 04:02:39,029
amount of barriers that prevent them from coming indures. And

2711
04:02:39,029 --> 04:02:41,449
so, um, the guidelines are presented in a way that

2712
04:02:41,470 --> 04:02:44,729
they can come inside, provided that they contribute to safe

2713
04:02:44,769 --> 04:02:48,969
space. If there are exclusionary criterios or things that people

2714
04:02:48,990 --> 04:02:51,689
have to meet to enter the doors, then that wouldn't

2715
04:02:51,689 --> 04:02:54,089
be a low barrier program. And this guideline is specifically

2716
04:02:54,190 --> 04:02:57,609
speaking solely to low - barrier programs. Anything outside of

2717
04:02:57,649 --> 04:03:00,409
a low barrier program, that would be considered in a

2718
04:03:00,409 --> 04:03:03,929
procurement, um, framework, or within the contract with the service

2719
04:03:03,969 --> 04:03:09,899
provider. Go ahead. So through you, Chair, then, are we

2720
04:03:09,939 --> 04:03:12,139
not creating a high barrier to access for those who

2721
04:03:12,139 --> 04:03:15,259
are not users and don't feel safe around users by

2722
04:03:15,360 --> 04:03:20,219
precluding those who want to provide a space without users?

2723
04:03:20,480 --> 04:03:22,219
I hear what you're saying about low barrier. I think

2724
04:03:22,320 --> 04:03:31,333
you're just creating a high barrier for someone else. That's

2725
04:03:31,373 --> 04:03:32,613
who you worship. I mean, they still have to meet

2726
04:03:32,794 --> 04:03:38,791
safety requirements. In those spaces. Um. Using drugs or having

2727
04:03:38,812 --> 04:03:41,351
drugs does not automatically make you a risk to those

2728
04:03:41,372 --> 04:03:47,088
other people that don't use drugs. Um, but if they're

2729
04:03:47,128 --> 04:03:49,568
creating unsafe situations, then those need to be addressed and

2730
04:03:49,608 --> 04:03:54,048
handled. So that those that are looking for a space

2731
04:03:54,149 --> 04:03:56,848
where they can feel safe and not be pestered and

2732
04:03:56,888 --> 04:04:00,028
offered drugs that they can get that as well. Uh,

2733
04:04:00,028 --> 04:04:03,488
and those that are showing up with drugs, this drive,

2734
04:04:03,488 --> 04:04:05,184
uh, we're trying to put this in place. That they

2735
04:04:05,605 --> 04:04:09,459
still contribute to a safe environment. We're not trying to

2736
04:04:09,560 --> 04:04:12,019
create more hoops for people to jump through. People that

2737
04:04:14,200 --> 04:04:16,739
are having addiction or don't have an addiction are all

2738
04:04:16,739 --> 04:04:19,971
entitled to housing. Um, and some may be closer to

2739
04:04:20,011 --> 04:04:22,851
that housing goal than others. Uh, and if somebody can

2740
04:04:22,952 --> 04:04:26,131
commune to an emergency shelter, uh, and, and receive that

2741
04:04:26,152 --> 04:04:29,571
support, or that's not the right space for them. It's

2742
04:04:29,571 --> 04:04:32,771
triggering. It's threatening. It's whatever. Then we look to the

2743
04:04:32,811 --> 04:04:35,091
system to start to find ways to get them into

2744
04:04:35,112 --> 04:04:38,691
a different space. Maybe into some of those other salvation

2745
04:04:38,731 --> 04:04:41,491
army base or emission services - based services or to

2746
04:04:41,491 --> 04:04:44,211
the micromodular shelter where they have their own independent living

2747
04:04:45,512 --> 04:04:48,131
or into some type of housing where they could have

2748
04:04:48,131 --> 04:04:52,291
some follow along support. So it's not a, in order

2749
04:04:52,291 --> 04:04:54,291
to access our shelter, you must be an act of

2750
04:04:54,291 --> 04:04:57,171
drug user. And I know that's not what you're saying,

2751
04:04:57,171 --> 04:04:59,251
but we're not trying to create more hoops for people.

2752
04:04:59,272 --> 04:05:02,691
If somebody comes in and they are free of addiction

2753
04:05:03,112 --> 04:05:05,011
and they're in recovery, we want to make sure we

2754
04:05:05,051 --> 04:05:08,211
get them on that pathway, stay on that pathway as

2755
04:05:08,251 --> 04:05:10,531
quick as we can. And there are examples when that

2756
04:05:10,571 --> 04:05:15,924
goes horribly wrong. This, this is true. And there are

2757
04:05:15,964 --> 04:05:19,380
examples when it goes really, really well. And so we

2758
04:05:19,881 --> 04:05:22,020
are trying to make a policy that is reflective of

2759
04:05:22,201 --> 04:05:25,860
2026 of the prevalence of drugs in our community and

2760
04:05:25,900 --> 04:05:29,060
trying to create some type of standard that is consistent

2761
04:05:29,641 --> 04:05:32,420
with well over a dozen other municipalities in this province.

2762
04:05:35,680 --> 04:05:39,959
Go ahead. All right. Um, I appreciate those responses. Um,

2763
04:05:40,880 --> 04:05:42,779
I'll see what others have to say. I will say

2764
04:05:43,520 --> 04:05:47,259
for me that we would preclude, um, somebody who wants

2765
04:05:47,299 --> 04:05:51,979
to provide, uh, drug - free space from applying through

2766
04:05:52,019 --> 04:05:58,459
this is a problem. Um, I'm not saying that I,

2767
04:05:58,459 --> 04:06:01,179
because I recognise the problem. I know it's out there.

2768
04:06:01,179 --> 04:06:06,916
It's very prevalent. But I'm disappointed to hear, and this

2769
04:06:07,017 --> 04:06:10,196
may influence how I vote on a couple of these

2770
04:06:10,537 --> 04:06:13,660
clauses. I'm just pointed to hear that if an agency

2771
04:06:13,700 --> 04:06:15,820
came forward and wanted to run a space that was

2772
04:06:16,401 --> 04:06:19,660
drug - free, that staff are saying, we wouldn't come

2773
04:06:19,761 --> 04:06:23,900
forward and say notwithstanding our guidelines. This agency should still

2774
04:06:23,900 --> 04:06:26,564
be allowed to apply. And that's what I've heard. So

2775
04:06:26,564 --> 04:06:28,444
I just want to confirm with staff if that's accurate

2776
04:06:28,625 --> 04:06:31,004
that you would not come forward with a notwithstanding the

2777
04:06:31,044 --> 04:06:35,084
guidelines. This organisation should be considered that you would just

2778
04:06:35,084 --> 04:06:38,444
preclude them. 30 seconds. So I'm just looking for a

2779
04:06:38,444 --> 04:06:42,411
very clear yes or no. Would you bring fortunate notwithstanding

2780
04:06:42,592 --> 04:06:46,462
or would they be precluded? Okay, that answer.

2781
04:07:03,022 --> 04:07:05,241
Yes, there is a provision for those operators to be

2782
04:07:05,241 --> 04:07:08,601
able to offer those programs that are entirely abstinent space.

2783
04:07:08,601 --> 04:07:11,641
We wouldn't, um, immediately preclude them from being able to

2784
04:07:11,742 --> 04:07:14,921
put forward a program like that that particular program would

2785
04:07:15,022 --> 04:07:18,201
be independent of these guidelines or provider can still very

2786
04:07:18,201 --> 04:07:19,881
much do that. And we would consider them just like

2787
04:07:19,881 --> 04:07:22,341
we would consider any other provider or any other, um,

2788
04:07:22,382 --> 04:07:29,254
shelter modality. Okay. Other speakers.

2789
04:07:32,799 --> 04:07:36,938
Go ahead, Councillor Farrah. Thank you for that. Um, okay.

2790
04:07:37,039 --> 04:07:40,058
Follow up to the Deputy Mayor's questions. Um, I do

2791
04:07:40,079 --> 04:07:43,498
know of some providers. They wouldn't be necessarily considered shelter.

2792
04:07:43,498 --> 04:07:47,492
I'm not going to name them. That are, um, bringing

2793
04:07:47,532 --> 04:07:52,692
forth, uh, sober living environments to help people recover and

2794
04:07:52,732 --> 04:07:56,442
move forward and get involved into the housing pathways. Would

2795
04:07:56,463 --> 04:07:59,722
provider like that be able to, um, tap into this

2796
04:08:00,383 --> 04:08:01,802
procurement these guidelines.

2797
04:08:15,603 --> 04:08:17,582
Through you worship, I believe you're talking about a recovery

2798
04:08:17,622 --> 04:08:21,364
treatment program. Which would not fall under emergency shelter guidelines.

2799
04:08:22,016 --> 04:08:24,635
If it fall under, uh, what in a, what an

2800
04:08:24,635 --> 04:08:31,546
accredited treatment program would have to fall under. Go ahead.

2801
04:08:32,078 --> 04:08:33,657
Okay. I know that, uh, I don't want to go

2802
04:08:33,838 --> 04:08:38,593
beyond the scope of, uh, the item at hand. Um,

2803
04:08:38,633 --> 04:08:41,473
so I guess the question would be, are there any

2804
04:08:41,473 --> 04:08:43,313
other guidelines that we're going to be expecting coming forward

2805
04:08:43,334 --> 04:08:45,393
under the procurement framework that would be able to cover

2806
04:08:45,494 --> 04:08:52,546
something like that. Go ahead. The Rear worship. Yes, there

2807
04:08:52,647 --> 04:08:55,546
is precedent and other municipalities across the province. They do

2808
04:08:55,546 --> 04:08:58,706
have multiple sets of guidelines for different types of programs.

2809
04:08:58,706 --> 04:09:01,746
Um, this is not something we're considering particularly for this

2810
04:09:01,786 --> 04:09:04,946
particular phase. Um, a program like that, that you're suggesting

2811
04:09:05,047 --> 04:09:07,986
could very much exist in the city of London. They

2812
04:09:07,986 --> 04:09:10,706
could come through a procurement framework and absence of specific

2813
04:09:10,807 --> 04:09:13,026
guidelines about that program. It would be considered in their

2814
04:09:13,127 --> 04:09:15,426
contract. Um, and that's what we're hoping to bring forward

2815
04:09:15,426 --> 04:09:19,346
to Council and Committee through the Procurement Process that we

2816
04:09:19,346 --> 04:09:22,226
would lay out a number of different shelter modalities, including

2817
04:09:22,407 --> 04:09:25,986
absence and recovery - based programs. There's nothing within our

2818
04:09:25,986 --> 04:09:30,146
current processes that preclude that type of service from existing.

2819
04:09:30,186 --> 04:09:33,826
These particular guidelines are speaking to very specific subsect of

2820
04:09:33,866 --> 04:09:37,346
shelters. Um, we don't have other guidelines for other service

2821
04:09:37,367 --> 04:09:41,273
providers, but that would be included in their contracts. Okay,

2822
04:09:41,273 --> 04:09:43,433
thank you. That's how I read it. Uh, that's why

2823
04:09:43,433 --> 04:09:44,853
I just wanted to ask the question. Cause you know

2824
04:09:44,853 --> 04:09:46,313
the one that I'm talking about that we've been working

2825
04:09:46,353 --> 04:09:48,553
on for a while. Appreciate it. That's all my questions.

2826
04:09:53,331 --> 04:09:59,628
Okay. Other speakers to the amendments before us.

2827
04:10:05,284 --> 04:10:09,903
Okay. I've been asked to do them all separately. So,

2828
04:10:09,903 --> 04:10:12,143
uh, we're just let me make sure we've got that

2829
04:10:12,183 --> 04:10:12,423
lined up.

2830
04:10:31,550 --> 04:10:33,089
Okay. So we're going to start. We're just going to

2831
04:10:33,089 --> 04:10:36,169
do them in order. So we'll do, uh, first.

2832
04:11:15,211 --> 04:11:21,093
End the vote. Motion fails. Seven to eight. Okay. And

2833
04:11:21,114 --> 04:11:22,733
now I, I.

2834
04:11:43,595 --> 04:11:50,037
M closing a vote. Motion fails six to nine. And

2835
04:11:50,077 --> 04:11:50,837
I, I, I.

2836
04:12:09,673 --> 04:12:18,457
M closing the vote, motion carries. 15 to zero. Okay.

2837
04:12:18,457 --> 04:12:20,297
So now we're back to the main, but it's an

2838
04:12:20,318 --> 04:12:22,377
as amended motion now, uh, cause one of those parts

2839
04:12:22,638 --> 04:12:27,172
passed. So I'll look to the chair. Good for the

2840
04:12:27,193 --> 04:12:30,931
azimended motion. I need a seconder on that. I'll second

2841
04:12:30,952 --> 04:12:36,393
it. Okay. Discussion on the as amended motion, which is

2842
04:12:36,414 --> 04:12:39,913
all the pieces, including the addition of the III part

2843
04:12:39,953 --> 04:12:46,263
that we just debated. Go ahead, Councillor Privileg. Thank you,

2844
04:12:46,263 --> 04:12:47,943
Chair. Just want to make some comments. And thanks for

2845
04:12:48,044 --> 04:12:51,943
the staff for updating these skylines procedures. A couple of

2846
04:12:51,943 --> 04:12:55,943
things that I want to, uh, address, uh, I do

2847
04:12:55,983 --> 04:12:58,983
have, I do have issues, which I mentioned before to

2848
04:12:58,983 --> 04:13:02,483
have them, uh, at the premises. I do understand, I'm

2849
04:13:02,483 --> 04:13:05,303
talking about the point, of course, the substances and the

2850
04:13:05,303 --> 04:13:09,863
premises. I totally understand BXED individuals who are under, visit

2851
04:13:09,863 --> 04:13:16,925
the premises there. I don't, I think. Yes. Go ahead.

2852
04:13:17,186 --> 04:13:24,344
Sorry. Uh, Mayor Morgan, um, my apologies. Um. But on

2853
04:13:25,005 --> 04:13:30,149
I. Um, I voted incorrectly. And that would change the

2854
04:13:30,189 --> 04:13:32,149
outcome. So I'm looking for a motion to reconsider.

2855
04:14:10,504 --> 04:14:12,643
Okay. You are on the winning side of that vote.

2856
04:14:12,643 --> 04:14:17,526
So you can move reconsideration yourself. So, and then I'm

2857
04:14:17,566 --> 04:14:26,952
moving reconsideration. Okay. Reconsideration needs a second Councillor Cutty. One

2858
04:14:26,992 --> 04:14:28,472
sec. I just want to make sure I follow the

2859
04:14:28,472 --> 04:14:29,352
rules and reconsideration.

2860
04:15:12,648 --> 04:15:16,307
Okay. So yes, it's moved a second. It's requires two

2861
04:15:16,328 --> 04:15:20,707
thirds of whole Council and it's not debatable. So we'll

2862
04:15:20,728 --> 04:15:21,987
just get the motion to reconsider up.

2863
04:15:43,437 --> 04:15:44,216
Okay. We're going to open that.

2864
04:15:59,799 --> 04:16:02,338
Closing the vote. Motion carries 13 to two.

2865
04:16:35,605 --> 04:16:36,784
Okay. We're good to go. So we're going to open

2866
04:16:36,784 --> 04:16:37,184
that for voting.

2867
04:17:08,524 --> 04:17:17,281
Council Privil. The vote. Motion carries nine to six. Okay.

2868
04:17:17,281 --> 04:17:20,081
So now I need to make sure, cause that's a

2869
04:17:20,081 --> 04:17:22,321
different asm ed motion that you're still okay on the

2870
04:17:22,342 --> 04:17:25,201
azimed. I'm still okay to second it. Now we'll go

2871
04:17:25,201 --> 04:17:30,688
to debate on the main as a minute motion. I'll

2872
04:17:30,728 --> 04:17:37,082
look to speakers. Go ahead, Councillor Stevenson. Yeah. Thank you.

2873
04:17:37,082 --> 04:17:38,762
I just wanted to say thank you to my colleagues

2874
04:17:38,863 --> 04:17:43,162
for supporting some of those amendments. Oh, sorry Councillor Stevenson.

2875
04:17:43,162 --> 04:17:45,722
I don't mean to cut you off. But Councillor Purple

2876
04:17:45,743 --> 04:17:49,482
was actually speaking, I think, to the guidelines when Jeff

2877
04:17:49,482 --> 04:17:51,082
D. Mary Lewis jumped up and said, I needed to

2878
04:17:51,423 --> 04:17:55,562
reconsider. So I don't want to let Council Privil make

2879
04:17:55,743 --> 04:17:59,229
his comments because I have him. Partially spoken there. My

2880
04:17:59,229 --> 04:18:02,689
apologies. Go ahead, Council. Okay. Thank you. So actually, uh,

2881
04:18:03,290 --> 04:18:06,549
I was the one who actually together with the Peter

2882
04:18:06,549 --> 04:18:09,089
Mary, Louis V, I changed my vote as well. Uh,

2883
04:18:09,370 --> 04:18:11,909
my concern was legal. Uh, but what I'm trying to

2884
04:18:11,949 --> 04:18:15,083
say is this. I do think that based on this,

2885
04:18:15,083 --> 04:18:19,483
we really need the agencies to have very strict safety

2886
04:18:19,584 --> 04:18:23,605
protocols. Very strict safety protocols because it is an issue

2887
04:18:23,626 --> 04:18:27,605
for me. It really honestly is just unfortunately or as

2888
04:18:27,605 --> 04:18:31,365
I said before, it's very difficult for them to stop

2889
04:18:31,386 --> 04:18:34,785
the individuals or let's put this way. It's impossible. And

2890
04:18:34,826 --> 04:18:38,085
I don't want Londoners to have a, to give them

2891
04:18:38,106 --> 04:18:42,325
a perception that actually they have a hundred percent tools

2892
04:18:42,346 --> 04:18:46,005
to stop them to enter. They don't. Should they try?

2893
04:18:46,005 --> 04:18:49,205
Absolutely. Should they steer them away? Yes. Absolutely. I really

2894
04:18:49,205 --> 04:18:51,365
ask and I don't know how I said it at

2895
04:18:51,365 --> 04:18:53,845
the committee meeting how our staff to really make sure

2896
04:18:54,746 --> 04:18:58,885
that a safety protocols are very strict, very tight. So,

2897
04:18:58,906 --> 04:19:06,769
so we minimize such incidents. Uh, the pre - maritalism,

2898
04:19:06,769 --> 04:19:09,889
when he mentioned the guidelines, and let's say drug -

2899
04:19:09,889 --> 04:19:14,153
free environment. I really took this only as low barrier.

2900
04:19:14,153 --> 04:19:17,673
Having said that, we do, we are missing again, we

2901
04:19:17,713 --> 04:19:20,433
are missing certain parts in our system. Why are we

2902
04:19:20,433 --> 04:19:23,193
missing it? Not of even know it that the organisations

2903
04:19:23,233 --> 04:19:25,833
agencies or our staff. We just don't have the funding

2904
04:19:25,833 --> 04:19:28,873
for it. And this is my issue that these we

2905
04:19:28,873 --> 04:19:31,753
should have the process of step up, step up, step

2906
04:19:31,753 --> 04:19:34,713
up, step up. Unfortunately, our steps are too high because

2907
04:19:34,713 --> 04:19:37,753
we are missing the ones in between. But I took

2908
04:19:37,774 --> 04:19:41,194
this as only low barrier. I really do think that

2909
04:19:41,375 --> 04:19:45,874
we should have for organisations, what was mentioned before, if

2910
04:19:45,874 --> 04:19:47,514
someone wants to go there and they don't want to

2911
04:19:47,535 --> 04:19:51,674
be in such environment that we should have certain guidelines

2912
04:19:52,335 --> 04:19:56,794
and funding associated with these premises. Again, going back to

2913
04:19:56,834 --> 04:19:59,274
it, again, comes to the money and comes to the

2914
04:19:59,274 --> 04:20:03,514
funding. I do think that when I look at our,

2915
04:20:03,514 --> 04:20:06,234
when I look at our system, it needs to be

2916
04:20:06,335 --> 04:20:11,514
improved. We need to have these individuals for each individual

2917
04:20:11,855 --> 04:20:15,274
at every stage. We do need to have the promises.

2918
04:20:15,274 --> 04:20:17,914
But as I said, I took this as low barrier.

2919
04:20:17,914 --> 04:20:21,194
If I look at how many people we have homeless,

2920
04:20:21,194 --> 04:20:25,274
we don't even have enough low barriers spots to accommodate

2921
04:20:25,274 --> 04:20:29,001
them. So again, and that's going back, I know that's

2922
04:20:29,001 --> 04:20:31,721
coming back to us again with the additional money that's

2923
04:20:31,721 --> 04:20:35,561
coming in September. I mentioned it last meeting as well.

2924
04:20:35,561 --> 04:20:38,321
But again, just like Maslow's, here are curve needs. If

2925
04:20:38,321 --> 04:20:40,601
you look at the bottom step, even though we consider

2926
04:20:40,782 --> 04:20:43,481
those minimal things, we need to have them. We need

2927
04:20:43,481 --> 04:20:46,841
to have the system retake it out. Our system breaks

2928
04:20:46,841 --> 04:20:49,801
down. So please do consider that. And I think that's

2929
04:20:49,902 --> 04:20:53,947
all I had. Thank you. Okay. Now I can go

2930
04:20:53,947 --> 04:21:03,069
to you Councillor Stevenson. Okay. Councillor Farra. Thank you. Um,

2931
04:21:03,110 --> 04:21:05,569
I guess I got some questions then just because we

2932
04:21:05,990 --> 04:21:09,789
have significantly changed the direction of the procurement policy. Uh,

2933
04:21:09,910 --> 04:21:12,209
for funding sources to the agencies, we're not the only

2934
04:21:12,870 --> 04:21:16,129
source of funding for agencies, correct? The agencies have their

2935
04:21:16,129 --> 04:21:23,460
own sources of funding. Go ahead. Through your worship, that's

2936
04:21:23,460 --> 04:21:26,180
correct. The agencies either can sell fund through donations or

2937
04:21:26,201 --> 04:21:30,590
other levels of government or private sector foundations. Yes. And

2938
04:21:30,590 --> 04:21:33,710
in some cases through you, in some cases, we're not

2939
04:21:33,750 --> 04:21:36,070
the primary source of funding when I say primary, I

2940
04:21:36,070 --> 04:21:39,109
mean like the majority funding source. Is that correct as

2941
04:21:39,109 --> 04:21:48,761
well? Go ahead.

2942
04:21:49,593 --> 04:21:52,052
Through your worship, for the emergency shelters, we are the

2943
04:21:52,092 --> 04:21:54,532
majority funder for the operators that are in the City

2944
04:21:54,532 --> 04:22:00,042
of London. That's correct. Thank you, through you. So follow

2945
04:22:00,042 --> 04:22:03,002
- up question. If the board of directors are making

2946
04:22:03,023 --> 04:22:06,602
these decisions, and as it was said previously by staff,

2947
04:22:06,602 --> 04:22:09,962
uh, some of the, um, the policies in this new

2948
04:22:09,983 --> 04:22:16,167
framework have already been implemented. By the shelters, specifically with

2949
04:22:16,508 --> 04:22:19,927
the item one, to remove the provision of, uh, legal

2950
04:22:19,967 --> 04:22:25,767
substances. Um, they have decided those directors and the management

2951
04:22:25,868 --> 04:22:28,887
there have decided to do it that way. And now

2952
04:22:29,228 --> 04:22:31,367
us as a primary source of funding for many of

2953
04:22:31,628 --> 04:22:35,767
the services or the agencies are now saying, um, you're

2954
04:22:35,767 --> 04:22:37,927
prohibited to do that. How does that reconcile between the

2955
04:22:37,967 --> 04:22:41,447
two? Councillor, that's not what was passed. It's not a

2956
04:22:41,468 --> 04:22:45,127
prohibition. It's just a removal of the language. The guidelines

2957
04:22:45,167 --> 04:22:48,327
would be silent on it. So people could boards could

2958
04:22:48,367 --> 04:22:49,767
make their own choices. I just want to be clear

2959
04:22:49,807 --> 04:22:53,687
on what that vote was. So, but our staff can

2960
04:22:53,727 --> 04:22:56,887
answer your question. But no prohibition. Okay. Let me just

2961
04:22:57,068 --> 04:23:01,378
reframe the question. With it being silent on that. And

2962
04:23:01,399 --> 04:23:03,458
like still, how does it reconcile between the two? Like

2963
04:23:03,559 --> 04:23:05,698
is it up to the agencies or is it up

2964
04:23:05,698 --> 04:23:08,606
to the service providers now. To make that decision on

2965
04:23:08,707 --> 04:23:12,126
their own accord and the funding, if it comes from

2966
04:23:12,166 --> 04:23:16,606
the city, it's still up to the provider, the shelter

2967
04:23:16,867 --> 04:23:19,006
to make that decision? Is that, that's, I guess, a

2968
04:23:19,006 --> 04:23:20,046
clarification question then.

2969
04:23:33,968 --> 04:23:38,187
Thank you, your worshiping through you. I think that remains

2970
04:23:38,227 --> 04:23:43,187
to be determined. Quite frankly. With this change in the

2971
04:23:43,227 --> 04:23:46,787
guidelines. We will go through and we will follow whatever

2972
04:23:46,808 --> 04:23:50,787
the Council recommendation is, is to remove, um, any of

2973
04:23:50,787 --> 04:23:55,667
those provisions, uh, it will probably create, uh, some questions

2974
04:23:56,008 --> 04:23:58,527
or confusions for shelter providers. And we'll have to, uh,

2975
04:23:58,888 --> 04:24:07,017
sort out what that looks like. Go ahead. Um, so

2976
04:24:07,038 --> 04:24:10,457
I don't, we don't know how this will translate in.

2977
04:24:10,457 --> 04:24:12,057
Like, what are we making a decision on here then.

2978
04:24:12,812 --> 04:24:18,053
Um, I thought we are giving direction. And now we

2979
04:24:18,093 --> 04:24:23,090
don't know how that direction is going to land. So

2980
04:24:23,831 --> 04:24:27,090
if it was up to the shelter service provider to

2981
04:24:27,191 --> 04:24:32,530
decide that is one direction. But if we are being

2982
04:24:32,791 --> 04:24:36,610
mute now on that provision and we don't know how

2983
04:24:36,610 --> 04:24:39,890
that's going to translate, I am confused on what the

2984
04:24:39,911 --> 04:24:41,730
decision is that we're going to be making here today

2985
04:24:41,751 --> 04:24:50,004
with this new framework. Go ahead. Thank you, your worship,

2986
04:24:50,004 --> 04:24:52,964
through you. It does create confusion. It's why we brought

2987
04:24:52,985 --> 04:24:57,284
it forward with language in there to reflect, um, that

2988
04:24:57,385 --> 04:25:01,204
it's an occurrence that they encounter frequently. Uh, we had

2989
04:25:01,305 --> 04:25:05,124
a delegation submission as part of the CAPS agenda that

2990
04:25:05,164 --> 04:25:08,884
spoke to the many iterations of this policy and, and

2991
04:25:09,225 --> 04:25:12,564
how having language in or out, uh, often created some

2992
04:25:12,825 --> 04:25:17,364
ambiguity, created challenges with upholding it, uh, with or without.

2993
04:25:17,364 --> 04:25:20,964
So, um, where we're at now is, is needing to

2994
04:25:20,985 --> 04:25:22,964
understand. I wouldn't be able to answer the question for

2995
04:25:23,145 --> 04:25:25,604
you, Councillor. You know, what are you going to do

2996
04:25:25,625 --> 04:25:28,324
if somebody shows up at a shelter and they have,

2997
04:25:28,324 --> 04:25:31,444
um, they use drugs or they have drugs on their

2998
04:25:31,484 --> 04:25:34,964
possession. What is every shelter stance on that? That is

2999
04:25:35,004 --> 04:25:41,863
to be determined now as we change course. Okay. Thank

3000
04:25:41,863 --> 04:25:44,343
you. Um, you know, with that, like we're not making

3001
04:25:44,524 --> 04:25:47,623
a decision here. We're making confusion and we're making confusion

3002
04:25:47,663 --> 04:25:51,570
on a serious crisis we have in the city. I

3003
04:25:51,591 --> 04:25:55,970
thought that we had a data driven evidence based report

3004
04:25:55,991 --> 04:25:59,570
that was very well done. It was specifically made and

3005
04:25:59,610 --> 04:26:03,490
meant to capture everybody to put them into the system

3006
04:26:04,231 --> 04:26:06,370
to be able to put them on pathways to housing

3007
04:26:06,391 --> 04:26:10,130
through stability to make sure that we meet everybody where

3008
04:26:10,130 --> 04:26:12,130
they're at low barrier because the ultimate goal is to

3009
04:26:12,130 --> 04:26:16,326
get people off of the street regardless. Of where they

3010
04:26:16,427 --> 04:26:20,246
stand right now, whether it's struggling with substance use, whether

3011
04:26:20,427 --> 04:26:24,566
it's being unsheltered because they can't afford it. We are

3012
04:26:24,606 --> 04:26:27,606
trying to create a pathway, a system that is able

3013
04:26:28,027 --> 04:26:30,646
to capture everybody because the ultimate goal is to get

3014
04:26:30,686 --> 04:26:34,086
people off the street. The report came back. It was

3015
04:26:34,087 --> 04:26:36,386
very clear, very well done too. And I made those

3016
04:26:36,407 --> 04:26:43,430
comments at committee. Now we are deviating from the data,

3017
04:26:43,430 --> 04:26:45,510
from that evidence. And now we're making a decision that's

3018
04:26:45,531 --> 04:26:47,750
going to create confusion. And this is not an area

3019
04:26:47,790 --> 04:26:52,481
where we need to be confused. If I'm confused because

3020
04:26:52,481 --> 04:26:55,921
of this direction, we don't even have a clear direction

3021
04:26:56,422 --> 04:27:00,321
of what this is now leading to from staff. There's

3022
04:27:00,361 --> 04:27:03,001
going to be confusion with the shelters. There's going to

3023
04:27:03,001 --> 04:27:05,361
be confusion on how this system is supposed to work.

3024
04:27:05,844 --> 04:27:07,983
There's going to be confusion amongst the city. And there

3025
04:27:07,983 --> 04:27:09,323
are once again, going to say, what are you guys

3026
04:27:09,323 --> 04:27:12,855
doing. So with this, like I can't support this at

3027
04:27:12,895 --> 04:27:17,095
this point because there's no decision here. It's a confusing.

3028
04:27:17,095 --> 04:27:19,575
It's, you know, there's nothing that's really being done here.

3029
04:27:19,615 --> 04:27:22,480
There's no changes. And if I can't get a direct

3030
04:27:22,501 --> 04:27:24,800
answer on how this is going to translate, this is

3031
04:27:24,800 --> 04:27:28,400
just going to lead to more spitting of the wheels.

3032
04:27:28,400 --> 04:27:31,440
Um, and I would like to have some decisive direction

3033
04:27:31,440 --> 04:27:35,360
here. So, so I guess I can't support it anymore.

3034
04:27:36,967 --> 04:27:42,913
Which is a shame. To the city manager. Thank you,

3035
04:27:42,913 --> 04:27:45,393
worship. And I certainly appreciate through you to the members

3036
04:27:45,393 --> 04:27:49,713
of Council. A decision bike elected officials to make an

3037
04:27:49,713 --> 04:27:51,393
amendment to something that's put on the floor. We don't

3038
04:27:51,433 --> 04:27:53,633
have an issue with that. The challenge though is that

3039
04:27:53,654 --> 04:27:56,193
we have a scenario where we actually need to consider

3040
04:27:56,374 --> 04:27:59,133
what this means. And I appreciate their questions about, can

3041
04:27:59,133 --> 04:28:01,313
we answer the questions? It requires us a little bit

3042
04:28:01,334 --> 04:28:03,393
of time to think about what this means. And that's

3043
04:28:03,393 --> 04:28:05,113
not because we don't want to answer the questions. We

3044
04:28:05,113 --> 04:28:06,513
just have to think about it from a standpoint of

3045
04:28:06,774 --> 04:28:09,313
what actually will we say to providers? What does it

3046
04:28:09,313 --> 04:28:11,713
mean for us in terms of delivery of essential services

3047
04:28:11,814 --> 04:28:14,753
in our community? So I think our intention is not

3048
04:28:14,753 --> 04:28:16,833
to try to be difficult and not answer the questions.

3049
04:28:16,833 --> 04:28:18,913
We need to think through this process and be able

3050
04:28:18,913 --> 04:28:21,393
to be sure when we give advice back to you

3051
04:28:21,414 --> 04:28:23,793
about the change, what that actually means. And so I

3052
04:28:23,793 --> 04:28:25,953
just wanted to be clear about that. It's not, it's

3053
04:28:25,953 --> 04:28:28,833
not our intention to be difficult. It's just about there's

3054
04:28:28,873 --> 04:28:30,833
this is now a change. Came on the floor today.

3055
04:28:31,652 --> 04:28:33,231
I just want to be clear about that. And thank

3056
04:28:33,231 --> 04:28:38,768
you for the time for that. Okay. Council Rahmen. Thank

3057
04:28:38,768 --> 04:28:42,048
you and through you. So I was supportive of the

3058
04:28:42,229 --> 04:28:45,648
language change because the way that I interpreted it was

3059
04:28:46,149 --> 04:28:49,568
that on page 41 of the shelter guideline where it

3060
04:28:49,568 --> 04:28:53,808
says emergency shelter operators will have a policy regarding alcohol

3061
04:28:53,829 --> 04:28:57,008
cannabis illegal substances and medications without a prescription. The policy

3062
04:28:57,109 --> 04:28:59,648
will include. And then it has a bullet and it

3063
04:28:59,648 --> 04:29:02,368
says to ensure the safety and security file residents emergency

3064
04:29:02,389 --> 04:29:06,768
shelter operators staff regarding alcohol cannabis or legal substance participants

3065
04:29:06,808 --> 04:29:08,828
are allowed to have it in the emergency shelter, but

3066
04:29:08,828 --> 04:29:10,928
not allowed to use it in the building that that

3067
04:29:10,928 --> 04:29:14,768
is where it becomes now silent. So that for me

3068
04:29:14,789 --> 04:29:17,728
was the reason why I could support it because as

3069
04:29:17,768 --> 04:29:20,208
we were entering and debate on this topic as we

3070
04:29:20,208 --> 04:29:23,808
were considering the amendment, we heard different scenarios where this

3071
04:29:23,909 --> 04:29:27,648
could be considered differently. The rest of the documents still

3072
04:29:27,688 --> 04:29:30,688
reads as it reads. It still reads as this is

3073
04:29:30,728 --> 04:29:34,128
a low barrier approach. It still reads as a guideline

3074
04:29:34,869 --> 04:29:38,528
that supports what we have continued to support here at

3075
04:29:38,568 --> 04:29:42,448
Council. So I think that this helps to address the

3076
04:29:42,549 --> 04:29:47,568
issue of whether or not, uh, we were allowing these

3077
04:29:47,568 --> 04:29:50,608
things in, but not allowed allowing people to use them

3078
04:29:50,789 --> 04:29:57,648
inside as well as, I think there will be interpretion

3079
04:29:57,909 --> 04:30:01,728
and discussion from shelter providers. We have a long procurement

3080
04:30:01,909 --> 04:30:05,088
process and timeline before this is in place. So I

3081
04:30:05,088 --> 04:30:07,168
do believe there is time for us to get further

3082
04:30:07,189 --> 04:30:10,848
clarity and go back and have further discussions. So that's

3083
04:30:11,029 --> 04:30:17,374
why it remains supportive. Uh, Councillor Hopkins and then McAllister.

3084
04:30:19,326 --> 04:30:26,185
Yeah. Thank you. And, um, appreciate, um, committee chair's comments,

3085
04:30:26,185 --> 04:30:30,025
but, uh, for me, we're a Council, we make a

3086
04:30:30,025 --> 04:30:36,541
decision here. I am not clear. Uh, based on city

3087
04:30:36,562 --> 04:30:42,581
managers comments about where we are and the confusion, I

3088
04:30:42,581 --> 04:30:46,061
need to make a, I have to make it this

3089
04:30:46,061 --> 04:30:49,901
decision here. And I'm not ready to do that. So,

3090
04:30:49,901 --> 04:30:54,621
uh, given the comments I've heard, I would like this

3091
04:30:54,962 --> 04:31:00,061
to go back to committee for better understanding as to

3092
04:31:00,162 --> 04:31:05,366
exactly what we have done here. Because I'm not clear.

3093
04:31:06,297 --> 04:31:10,070
I was a committee. We had the conversations at committee

3094
04:31:10,651 --> 04:31:14,950
where Harry Council and now you have changed the direction,

3095
04:31:14,950 --> 04:31:19,997
I think in a different way. So, um, I don't

3096
04:31:20,037 --> 04:31:22,397
think this is where we should be doing committee work

3097
04:31:22,418 --> 04:31:26,157
to start off with. But if we can refer this

3098
04:31:26,197 --> 04:31:34,237
back to get further clarification on these changes, I'm not

3099
04:31:34,237 --> 04:31:38,397
sure what else to do, maybe a vote. And then

3100
04:31:38,397 --> 04:31:41,437
if, depending on what happens with the vote, I'll ask

3101
04:31:41,477 --> 04:31:48,495
for a referral PAC. Just looking at process. So does

3102
04:31:48,535 --> 04:31:51,327
the referral start now. Yeah, you only get to speak

3103
04:31:51,588 --> 04:31:54,847
once. There's no other amendments. This is the, we're to

3104
04:31:54,847 --> 04:31:57,727
the main motion now. So I'd like to have this

3105
04:31:57,828 --> 04:32:03,728
referred back to committee. Okay. For what reason? For clarification

3106
04:32:04,309 --> 04:32:09,303
on what we're doing here. I have no idea. The

3107
04:32:09,324 --> 04:32:14,955
implications of what we've just decided. I don't think staff

3108
04:32:14,955 --> 04:32:18,394
are clear. And I'm not sure if the agencies are

3109
04:32:18,434 --> 04:32:18,554
clear.

3110
04:32:41,407 --> 04:32:43,306
Okay. So what the clerk heard you say was for

3111
04:32:44,127 --> 04:32:49,066
basically referral back four further consideration and clarification. Are you

3112
04:32:49,066 --> 04:32:54,243
good with that language? Uh. And I wonder. I wonder

3113
04:32:54,283 --> 04:32:56,963
if we need legal advice as well. I'm just very

3114
04:32:57,304 --> 04:33:01,995
concerned here, you worship. That doesn't need to be part

3115
04:33:01,995 --> 04:33:05,035
of a referral if staff feel we need legal advice.

3116
04:33:05,035 --> 04:33:07,035
They'll schedule it that way. If a councillor feels when

3117
04:33:07,075 --> 04:33:08,635
it comes back, they want that. They can ask to

3118
04:33:08,635 --> 04:33:16,721
go on a camera. Okay. Seconder for the referral Councillor

3119
04:33:16,742 --> 04:33:19,432
Trosa is willing to second. With legal avent, I would

3120
04:33:19,472 --> 04:33:24,901
like. With legal added, I would be happy to second

3121
04:33:25,002 --> 04:33:25,221
that.

3122
04:33:41,319 --> 04:33:44,658
You want to just add including any relevant legal advice.

3123
04:33:44,698 --> 04:33:46,338
Okay. Is that good for you Councillor Hopkins? Okay.

3124
04:33:55,988 --> 04:33:58,927
Okay. On the referral, I'll start a speaker's list. I

3125
04:33:58,927 --> 04:34:00,507
don't know if you want to start Councillor Hopkins, you

3126
04:34:00,507 --> 04:34:03,654
get speed once to the referral. It's up to you.

3127
04:34:04,075 --> 04:34:07,734
Yeah. Based on, uh, what I've heard from staff and

3128
04:34:08,075 --> 04:34:11,974
from my colleague and from my own understanding on exactly

3129
04:34:12,075 --> 04:34:15,014
what I am voting on here, I would like further

3130
04:34:15,355 --> 04:34:21,792
information. Uh, Councillor Farra. Thank you. Thank you for the

3131
04:34:21,813 --> 04:34:24,112
referral. I will support it. Even though I don't want

3132
04:34:24,133 --> 04:34:26,940
to referral. I want to put this to bed. This

3133
04:34:26,980 --> 04:34:29,263
has been going on and on and on. And I

3134
04:34:29,263 --> 04:34:30,783
wish that we could just come up with a decision

3135
04:34:30,783 --> 04:34:35,263
here and take a very well written report with a

3136
04:34:35,263 --> 04:34:37,503
lot of data. And the staff will answer your questions

3137
04:34:37,684 --> 04:34:40,463
too. If you reach out, if you're confused or if,

3138
04:34:40,463 --> 04:34:41,903
but they obviously can't answer this because this is a

3139
04:34:41,943 --> 04:34:47,872
significant change. We want to ask, will this cut people

3140
04:34:48,053 --> 04:34:53,072
off from supports, from pathways, the amendment that has been

3141
04:34:53,072 --> 04:34:55,936
approved. Will it ultimately lead to more people on the

3142
04:34:55,957 --> 04:35:03,611
street. Will it ultimately. Avoid or I guess remove our

3143
04:35:03,611 --> 04:35:05,491
direction of what we're doing? Like ultimately we want to

3144
04:35:05,491 --> 04:35:07,931
be capturing as many people. So I think some of

3145
04:35:07,931 --> 04:35:10,071
the questions that you don't have to answer now, but

3146
04:35:10,071 --> 04:35:12,951
I would like to see in the Report Back, are

3147
04:35:12,951 --> 04:35:16,383
those, are those. Like will this, is this a significant

3148
04:35:16,404 --> 04:35:22,201
deviation. From the framework. Will it mean less people are

3149
04:35:22,201 --> 04:35:25,401
captured within the system for support? Will it mean less

3150
04:35:25,441 --> 04:35:29,481
people are put on those supportive pathways with stability workers

3151
04:35:29,822 --> 04:35:32,841
or housing? Will it mean more people on the street?

3152
04:35:32,942 --> 04:35:34,281
Those are the kind of things that I would like

3153
04:35:34,281 --> 04:35:37,001
to see with the change that we saw here today.

3154
04:35:37,001 --> 04:35:38,521
So I don't want to have, I know you can't

3155
04:35:38,542 --> 04:35:40,841
give me an answer, but that's ultimately why I'm going

3156
04:35:40,841 --> 04:35:43,141
to be supporting this referral, which I will be. And

3157
04:35:43,141 --> 04:35:45,721
like I said, I'd like to decide on this now.

3158
04:35:45,742 --> 04:35:48,121
This is, this has been going on way too long.

3159
04:35:48,121 --> 04:35:51,401
I want to see some decisive decisions here, but the

3160
04:35:51,441 --> 04:35:54,921
direction that we have seemed to be going, um, if

3161
04:35:54,921 --> 04:35:56,321
it's going to have to be referral, it's going to

3162
04:35:56,321 --> 04:35:57,481
have to be a referral. So I'm going to support

3163
04:35:57,502 --> 04:35:59,241
it. And I think we should also put it because

3164
04:35:59,241 --> 04:36:00,201
those questions need to be answered.

3165
04:36:11,630 --> 04:36:16,633
On the referral. Dr. Mary Lewis, then Councillor McAllister. Thank

3166
04:36:16,673 --> 04:36:19,273
you, Chair. Uh, so I'm not going to be supporting

3167
04:36:19,273 --> 04:36:22,020
the referral. I don't think this is confusing at all.

3168
04:36:22,547 --> 04:36:25,886
We've reverted back essentially to the policy being silent and

3169
04:36:25,926 --> 04:36:28,366
allowing the operators to decide for themselves what their policy

3170
04:36:28,366 --> 04:36:31,684
is going to be around possession. It's very simple. And

3171
04:36:31,684 --> 04:36:34,424
they can do that. They can provide the individual shelter

3172
04:36:34,464 --> 04:36:38,104
providers can provide Mr. Dickens their own policy, which can

3173
04:36:38,104 --> 04:36:40,664
be posted on the website along with the emergency guidelines.

3174
04:36:40,664 --> 04:36:44,614
It's not hard. And I think to, to make statements

3175
04:36:44,654 --> 04:36:46,294
about what this is going to mean for more people

3176
04:36:46,315 --> 04:36:49,094
on the streets turned away from services, et cetera. I

3177
04:36:49,094 --> 04:36:51,574
think it's highly speculative at that point. I think we've

3178
04:36:51,614 --> 04:36:53,734
heard from the shelter providers we have active right now

3179
04:36:54,475 --> 04:36:58,466
that they're prepared. To move ahead. With the policy of

3180
04:36:58,727 --> 04:37:02,904
allowing possession as long as the active use. They're not

3181
04:37:02,904 --> 04:37:06,254
saying that they're going to pull out. Uh, because it's

3182
04:37:06,275 --> 04:37:08,616
going to be up to them. So I think it's

3183
04:37:08,637 --> 04:37:11,016
really highly speculative to say that's going to cut people

3184
04:37:11,056 --> 04:37:12,936
off. It's just simply going to be up to the

3185
04:37:12,957 --> 04:37:16,696
shelter providers. And if someone chooses to come forward through

3186
04:37:16,736 --> 04:37:21,496
the process and offer a space that is possession free,

3187
04:37:21,496 --> 04:37:23,445
then that will be their choice. I'm not sure that

3188
04:37:23,485 --> 04:37:26,245
we have anybody who's interested in doing that right at

3189
04:37:26,245 --> 04:37:30,378
this moment. But we did hear from the delegates that

3190
04:37:30,399 --> 04:37:33,941
they were comfortable with the policy. They can pursue that

3191
04:37:34,042 --> 04:37:39,726
policy. Nothing we have done today prohibits. It simply removes

3192
04:37:39,766 --> 04:37:43,990
the permissive language. And says nothing and leaves it up

3193
04:37:43,990 --> 04:37:47,167
to the shelter providers. So I think we need to

3194
04:37:47,268 --> 04:37:51,247
step back from the speculative. And it's not that confusing

3195
04:37:51,588 --> 04:37:54,610
folks. It's very, to me, it's very straightforward. We will

3196
04:37:54,631 --> 04:37:56,930
leave it up to the individual to providers to establish

3197
04:37:57,031 --> 04:38:01,849
their own policy around drug possession in their spaces. Otherwise,

3198
04:38:01,849 --> 04:38:04,009
the rest of the guidelines are in place. Nothing has

3199
04:38:04,049 --> 04:38:08,009
changed. So, uh, I encourage colleagues to not support the

3200
04:38:08,110 --> 04:38:16,150
referral. Let's get this passed and move on. Council McAllister.

3201
04:38:17,371 --> 04:38:19,985
Uh, thank you and through the mayor. I have a

3202
04:38:19,985 --> 04:38:23,345
different take, I think. And I just said, uh, I

3203
04:38:23,345 --> 04:38:27,345
mean, for me, this whole discussion was going from a

3204
04:38:27,385 --> 04:38:34,145
place of, um, ambiguity to some clarity. Uh, and even

3205
04:38:34,145 --> 04:38:36,945
the answers that were provided today, uh, I thought we

3206
04:38:36,966 --> 04:38:41,025
were moving to a space where the emergency shelters had

3207
04:38:41,046 --> 04:38:45,185
the guidelines. I understand in terms of the drug use

3208
04:38:45,286 --> 04:38:48,785
that it's being problematic across the board, uh, and we

3209
04:38:48,785 --> 04:38:51,425
could have other streams. It was never precluding. And we

3210
04:38:51,425 --> 04:38:53,185
heard that a number of times today was not precluding

3211
04:38:53,206 --> 04:38:57,025
other types of supports. Uh, and I would have been

3212
04:38:57,046 --> 04:38:58,945
fine in terms of if other people wanted to be

3213
04:38:58,945 --> 04:39:00,945
designated a certain way, that was fine. And we could

3214
04:39:00,945 --> 04:39:03,585
have developed guidelines that way. I think what this is

3215
04:39:03,585 --> 04:39:07,665
doing, it's muddying the waters. And we're returning to a

3216
04:39:07,665 --> 04:39:10,465
place of ambiguity. And I think Councillor Farr said this

3217
04:39:10,486 --> 04:39:14,945
earlier, but to me, it just, I think you just

3218
04:39:14,985 --> 04:39:18,145
revert back to 2011. I think it's a lack of

3219
04:39:18,806 --> 04:39:22,705
an acknowledgement of what we're experiencing currently on the streets.

3220
04:39:22,705 --> 04:39:26,385
Um, I understand the concerns, but I honestly think it

3221
04:39:26,646 --> 04:39:30,385
just poses the question back to the public. Where do

3222
04:39:30,425 --> 04:39:33,825
we want people who are suffering with addiction to go?

3223
04:39:33,825 --> 04:39:36,945
And I think it's not going to resolve in what,

3224
04:39:36,945 --> 04:39:39,065
uh, people want, unfortunately. I think you're still going to

3225
04:39:39,065 --> 04:39:41,425
see them on the street. And the mayor spoke to

3226
04:39:41,425 --> 04:39:43,665
this. And I know we've all kind of wrestled today

3227
04:39:43,686 --> 04:39:46,305
with, you know, where we go with this. But one

3228
04:39:46,345 --> 04:39:47,825
of the things I want to make clear on this

3229
04:39:48,006 --> 04:39:50,865
vote is I think we all care about this issue.

3230
04:39:50,865 --> 04:39:54,945
We're all struggling with it. But I don't like how

3231
04:39:55,206 --> 04:39:58,945
it has been used for political posturing purposes. We're not

3232
04:39:58,985 --> 04:40:01,425
debating the war on drugs here. This is not a

3233
04:40:01,425 --> 04:40:04,545
pro and anti drug vote. This is more us trying

3234
04:40:04,585 --> 04:40:08,145
to have guidelines that allow opers to work in a

3235
04:40:08,185 --> 04:40:11,025
difficult space with people who are struggling with addiction, which

3236
04:40:11,025 --> 04:40:13,745
is a very challenging space in itself. And I think

3237
04:40:13,745 --> 04:40:15,505
we can all acknowledge we don't have a lot of

3238
04:40:15,686 --> 04:40:19,425
access points right now. And so we have all also

3239
04:40:19,425 --> 04:40:21,745
witnessed the capacity issues with the shelter. We want people

3240
04:40:21,785 --> 04:40:24,225
to be able to come to a shelter, uh, and

3241
04:40:24,326 --> 04:40:26,145
this again, I think it just returns us to a

3242
04:40:26,185 --> 04:40:29,425
place of ambiguity. I am supportive of the referral just

3243
04:40:29,446 --> 04:40:31,745
because I would like a report back for staff to

3244
04:40:31,766 --> 04:40:35,025
now see what this might do to the system that

3245
04:40:35,046 --> 04:40:38,465
we were trying to, um, help in terms of offering

3246
04:40:38,465 --> 04:40:41,025
that clarity. So I think it just puts us back

3247
04:40:41,046 --> 04:40:44,145
to a grey area. And I need further understanding in

3248
04:40:44,145 --> 04:40:46,305
terms of what that grey area looks like and how

3249
04:40:46,305 --> 04:40:49,505
the people who are actually working in that space will

3250
04:40:49,505 --> 04:40:53,105
operate. Um, and so again, I appreciate the discussion. I

3251
04:40:53,145 --> 04:40:54,905
know we're kind of on different sides of this. I

3252
04:40:54,905 --> 04:40:57,105
think we're all grappling with it. But, uh, I'm saying

3253
04:40:57,126 --> 04:40:59,185
it now because I just know the way this is

3254
04:40:59,185 --> 04:41:01,025
interpreted in the public and I'm really tired of this

3255
04:41:01,286 --> 04:41:03,665
war on drugs thing coming up where that's not what

3256
04:41:03,686 --> 04:41:06,145
we're debating. I think we're debating where people can get

3257
04:41:06,166 --> 04:41:09,345
help and where they can seek shelter. And the guidelines

3258
04:41:09,345 --> 04:41:12,465
for that in terms of, um, allowing them a place

3259
04:41:12,505 --> 04:41:14,545
to go, even if they're struggling with addiction. I think

3260
04:41:14,585 --> 04:41:16,945
that was an important thing we needed to talk about,

3261
04:41:16,945 --> 04:41:19,265
but this is not a debate about drugs. It's a,

3262
04:41:19,305 --> 04:41:23,585
it's debate about the shelter space and the guidelines, which

3263
04:41:23,585 --> 04:41:27,345
would have allowed people to come in inside regardless of

3264
04:41:27,345 --> 04:41:28,785
what they're experiencing. So I'm going to leave it there,

3265
04:41:28,785 --> 04:41:34,935
but I'm supportive of the referral. Councillor Tro Sam.

3266
04:41:38,878 --> 04:41:44,777
Thank you through you. Does this shift in our decision?

3267
04:41:44,777 --> 04:41:49,103
And this is directed to the solicitor. Um, does this

3268
04:41:49,103 --> 04:41:52,703
shift in decision create any legal challenges for us in

3269
04:41:52,703 --> 04:41:54,383
terms of human rights legislation?

3270
04:42:25,500 --> 04:42:29,456
Go ahead. Thank you. And through your worship all say

3271
04:42:29,496 --> 04:42:33,296
publicly about that is that we know that addiction is

3272
04:42:33,296 --> 04:42:36,849
a protected human rights ground. And so a person cannot

3273
04:42:36,889 --> 04:42:40,529
be denied entry on that basis subject to a potential

3274
04:42:41,110 --> 04:42:46,277
human rights complaint. And I presume through you, um, that

3275
04:42:46,778 --> 04:42:49,717
means we'll be getting more information about this presumably in

3276
04:42:49,757 --> 04:42:52,437
a closed session at a subsequent point. And you can't

3277
04:42:52,477 --> 04:42:56,828
answer that now. Go ahead.

3278
04:43:25,191 --> 04:43:29,970
Thank you, Andrew, your worship. Um, additional information could be

3279
04:43:29,991 --> 04:43:35,623
provided as part of the referral. Okay. I won't go

3280
04:43:35,663 --> 04:43:38,743
through each grounds of legal objection that I could see

3281
04:43:39,004 --> 04:43:41,703
arising here and ask you individually. I'll just assume that

3282
04:43:41,724 --> 04:43:45,143
we'll get a thorough report. What bothers me so much

3283
04:43:45,164 --> 04:43:51,411
about this. Is we were just on the verge. Of

3284
04:43:51,451 --> 04:43:55,461
being able to have some, a victory. In terms of

3285
04:43:55,882 --> 04:44:01,424
clarity. Certainty. And at least, at least the road that

3286
04:44:01,525 --> 04:44:05,984
is legally, in my view, sustainable, but also ethically and

3287
04:44:06,024 --> 04:44:10,445
practically sustainable from the point of view of administration. I

3288
04:44:10,466 --> 04:44:16,361
believe that we have, um. Well, I won't say that

3289
04:44:16,542 --> 04:44:19,161
that way, but I will say that what's important to

3290
04:44:19,161 --> 04:44:25,961
me here is that we distinguish between stealth, person's status.

3291
04:44:27,203 --> 04:44:30,626
Which can be very broadly construed. To include things that

3292
04:44:30,887 --> 04:44:33,666
they're in possession of and things that they often, often

3293
04:44:33,706 --> 04:44:37,235
have on their person. Or on their body. But we're,

3294
04:44:37,235 --> 04:44:40,355
we're making a distinction here now between status and conduct.

3295
04:44:41,656 --> 04:44:45,755
And what I thought was so, um, beautiful. What I

3296
04:44:45,755 --> 04:44:49,782
thought was so brilliant. What I thought was so sustainable.

3297
04:44:52,182 --> 04:44:56,841
Was the way staff persistently told us. People can be

3298
04:44:56,881 --> 04:45:00,346
deported. People can be removed from the premises. But it's

3299
04:45:00,367 --> 04:45:05,038
based on, it's going to be based on behaviour. Not

3300
04:45:05,139 --> 04:45:06,238
going to be based on what we think they're going

3301
04:45:06,238 --> 04:45:12,119
to do. With something that they persistently. Have on their

3302
04:45:12,140 --> 04:45:19,232
person. Which is part of their. Underlying problem that we're

3303
04:45:19,272 --> 04:45:22,432
trying to cure. We're going to be pushing people away.

3304
04:45:24,339 --> 04:45:27,758
Who are in the most need of the kind of

3305
04:45:27,798 --> 04:45:31,779
help that we were just on the verge. Of being

3306
04:45:31,779 --> 04:45:37,316
able to enact. And I believe that like once again,

3307
04:45:37,316 --> 04:45:41,684
we backtrack. Once again, we are, we are standing on

3308
04:45:41,705 --> 04:45:47,386
the door, doorstep. Of coherence. And what do we do.

3309
04:45:48,275 --> 04:45:54,564
We worry. We worry. And we're allowing posturing. And political

3310
04:45:54,665 --> 04:45:58,484
considerations to affect our judgment here. And that is not

3311
04:45:58,665 --> 04:46:02,937
something that is acceptable. I find it reprehensible. That we're

3312
04:46:02,977 --> 04:46:05,177
doing this. So I look forward to getting a further

3313
04:46:05,438 --> 04:46:09,447
staff report. And I also think that, um, this backtracking

3314
04:46:09,447 --> 04:46:12,487
that we're doing here today is going to have some

3315
04:46:12,508 --> 04:46:14,887
implications in terms of a lot of other people who

3316
04:46:14,908 --> 04:46:18,769
have a lot of knowledge about drug policy. To come

3317
04:46:18,809 --> 04:46:22,499
forth. And I hope we get some good advice. Because

3318
04:46:22,520 --> 04:46:27,699
we were so close, so close. And here we are

3319
04:46:27,800 --> 04:46:31,458
again. Okay. We'll get another staff report. I will be

3320
04:46:31,479 --> 04:46:35,540
supporting. I will be supporting this referral, of course. And

3321
04:46:35,561 --> 04:46:39,540
should the referral fail. Sadly. Because most of what's in

3322
04:46:39,540 --> 04:46:42,020
the report is good. Sadly, I'll have to be voting

3323
04:46:42,921 --> 04:46:45,805
though. On the main motion. Cause I can't, I can't

3324
04:46:45,845 --> 04:46:49,405
support this. I cannot, in good conscience, as a councillor

3325
04:46:50,386 --> 04:46:54,445
who is not only bound to represent the interests of

3326
04:46:54,485 --> 04:46:56,845
people in our community, but also the interests of the

3327
04:46:56,885 --> 04:46:59,849
corporation. Which I think is going to be, in my

3328
04:46:59,849 --> 04:47:08,333
opinion, just my opinion, severely. Compromise. By this move. Plus

3329
04:47:08,373 --> 04:47:11,383
I think all of the goodwill. But run that is

3330
04:47:11,423 --> 04:47:15,481
built up. Through the outstanding staff work. Over this Council

3331
04:47:15,582 --> 04:47:20,066
term. This is what people are going to remember. That

3332
04:47:20,066 --> 04:47:23,964
we were on the doorstep of doing something important. But

3333
04:47:24,004 --> 04:47:28,038
we made a last minute change on a reconsideration. Vote.

3334
04:47:28,038 --> 04:47:31,398
This is not acceptable. And that's why I'll be voting

3335
04:47:31,579 --> 04:47:37,425
no. And I'll be urging everyone else voting voting now

3336
04:47:37,425 --> 04:47:40,545
on the, uh, on the matter. But please, please, please

3337
04:47:41,206 --> 04:47:44,065
vote yes on this referral because we need some more

3338
04:47:44,406 --> 04:47:47,185
information in front of us now because this, this seems

3339
04:47:47,185 --> 04:47:50,385
to be people are of various minds here. So I

3340
04:47:50,385 --> 04:47:54,291
think my time is up. And, uh, I appreciate your

3341
04:47:54,291 --> 04:47:58,531
indulgence, but I'm very, very disturbed about the, uh, the

3342
04:47:58,552 --> 04:48:06,035
turn that this is taken. Thank you. Um, other speakers.

3343
04:48:14,544 --> 04:48:17,163
Okay. Seeing that we're on the referral, um, this Councillor

3344
04:48:17,163 --> 04:48:19,563
Hopkins referral. So we'll open that for voting.

3345
04:48:37,996 --> 04:48:45,216
Closing the vote. Motion fails. Seven to eight. Okay. So

3346
04:48:45,437 --> 04:48:47,736
that puts us back on the main motion.

3347
04:49:10,007 --> 04:49:12,866
Okay. I think Council McDowell Straw was next on the

3348
04:49:12,866 --> 04:49:18,819
list. I think. Cause. We're back to the main motion.

3349
04:49:18,819 --> 04:49:19,939
And I don't know if you remember, but you were

3350
04:49:19,960 --> 04:49:22,173
on a list. You don't have to be on it

3351
04:49:22,173 --> 04:49:23,533
now if you don't want, but you were on it

3352
04:49:23,634 --> 04:49:28,132
if you want to speak now. If someone else wants

3353
04:49:28,172 --> 04:49:30,212
to speak, they can go first. Cause I got like

3354
04:49:30,252 --> 04:49:39,536
my train of thought again. Just so people know

3355
04:49:40,277 --> 04:49:45,936
Councillor's pribble, Ferreira, Ramen and Hopkins have spoken on the

3356
04:49:45,976 --> 04:49:51,487
main motion. So I'll start a speaker some. Ken. Sorry

3357
04:49:51,588 --> 04:49:57,427
for our Councillor. What. No, you can't. You spoke already.

3358
04:49:57,427 --> 04:50:03,492
He spoke before the referral. Okay. So speakers who haven't

3359
04:50:03,532 --> 04:50:11,648
spoken yet to the. Azimated motion. Go ahead, Councillor McAllister.

3360
04:50:13,652 --> 04:50:17,711
Thank you through the mayor. Yeah. Just some clothing thoughts

3361
04:50:18,212 --> 04:50:24,182
for me on this. Yeah. To the point I made

3362
04:50:24,222 --> 04:50:28,102
in terms of supporting the referral. I just think this

3363
04:50:28,283 --> 04:50:31,462
puts us back in a place that's more of a

3364
04:50:31,483 --> 04:50:34,742
grey area. I think it defeats the purpose in terms

3365
04:50:34,742 --> 04:50:38,742
of updating the guidelines. Um, I'll be voting no just

3366
04:50:38,742 --> 04:50:42,822
because at this point, I don't see, I think it

3367
04:50:42,862 --> 04:50:46,562
takes away from what we were trying to achieve. And

3368
04:50:46,562 --> 04:50:49,862
at this point reverting to what we had, it's pretty

3369
04:50:49,862 --> 04:50:51,542
much the same as what we'll go with. Either way,

3370
04:50:51,542 --> 04:50:53,762
I think you go to 2011 or 2026. We're now

3371
04:50:53,762 --> 04:50:56,642
just existing in the grey area. And I think, uh,

3372
04:50:56,642 --> 04:50:58,742
it doesn't really offer the clarity that we were looking

3373
04:50:58,782 --> 04:51:01,702
to see by doing this exercise in the first place.

3374
04:51:01,702 --> 04:51:05,382
So, uh, as it stands, uh, I won't be supporting

3375
04:51:05,422 --> 04:51:09,271
it. I think, um. It just doesn't do what we,

3376
04:51:09,271 --> 04:51:11,991
uh, wanted to, uh, in terms of, uh, offering those

3377
04:51:12,092 --> 04:51:14,231
avenues and those pathways for support that we were looking

3378
04:51:14,271 --> 04:51:16,151
to provide. So I'll be voting no on it.

3379
04:51:24,929 --> 04:51:26,988
Okay. I'll turn the chair to Depomer Lewis. I only

3380
04:51:26,988 --> 04:51:33,081
have myself on the list. I'll take the chair. Please

3381
04:51:33,081 --> 04:51:37,096
go ahead, Mayor Morgan. So I just want to say

3382
04:51:37,197 --> 04:51:41,151
a few words. First off, I think the colleagues who

3383
04:51:41,572 --> 04:51:46,831
are projecting a whole lot on to, uh, the one

3384
04:51:46,831 --> 04:51:53,264
change that we made. The existing shelters are operating as

3385
04:51:53,525 --> 04:51:58,202
the contemplated guidelines were operating. Removing references from the guideline.

3386
04:51:59,057 --> 04:52:02,476
Does not change the way that the shelter operators can

3387
04:52:02,497 --> 04:52:06,672
operate today. They can operate as they're operating. They can

3388
04:52:08,213 --> 04:52:11,392
make decisions of their boards. They can integrate with other

3389
04:52:11,413 --> 04:52:17,312
programs. Um, we have not changed or impacted fundamentally the

3390
04:52:17,312 --> 04:52:19,392
way that they can operate today. So I just want

3391
04:52:19,392 --> 04:52:20,592
to be clear because a lot of people are saying

3392
04:52:20,592 --> 04:52:23,072
that. I would also remind people that everybody has to

3393
04:52:23,112 --> 04:52:24,952
follow the human rights code. I know there's going to

3394
04:52:24,952 --> 04:52:26,832
be questions about that. But being silent on something doesn't

3395
04:52:26,933 --> 04:52:29,552
preclude you from having to follow the rules of the

3396
04:52:29,733 --> 04:52:32,653
provincial and federal governments and the human rights commission. So

3397
04:52:33,554 --> 04:52:35,613
if there are things to apply to the operation of

3398
04:52:35,634 --> 04:52:38,573
emergency shelters or shelters or any aspect of the work

3399
04:52:38,613 --> 04:52:40,733
we do as a corporation, those are still going to

3400
04:52:40,834 --> 04:52:45,453
apply. Uh, you know, our staff could have given us

3401
04:52:45,493 --> 04:52:47,053
legal advice on that, but it's very clear. We have

3402
04:52:47,053 --> 04:52:49,773
to follow the rules of the land. Everybody swore that

3403
04:52:49,794 --> 04:52:51,373
when they took their oath of office, this is something

3404
04:52:51,373 --> 04:52:53,773
we have to uphold. So there's nothing that we're making

3405
04:52:53,874 --> 04:52:56,733
a decision on by being silent on something that precludes

3406
04:52:56,733 --> 04:53:00,880
us. From our obligations to follow any human rights provisions

3407
04:53:01,061 --> 04:53:03,600
in the provision of services that we provide at the

3408
04:53:03,640 --> 04:53:06,720
cortion or in the contracts that we provide to people

3409
04:53:07,061 --> 04:53:09,680
or their board's obligations to follow the rules and the

3410
04:53:09,680 --> 04:53:13,200
laws that they have. So, um, I think colleagues should

3411
04:53:13,200 --> 04:53:15,200
support the guidelines. I think there are a number of

3412
04:53:15,221 --> 04:53:17,520
good things in there. Uh, I don't think you should

3413
04:53:17,560 --> 04:53:21,600
move towards, um, removing all of the other changes because

3414
04:53:22,261 --> 04:53:24,320
you're unhappy that we're being silenced on one provision where

3415
04:53:24,901 --> 04:53:27,600
in my opinion, it's not going to fundamentally change in

3416
04:53:27,621 --> 04:53:29,200
any sort of way the way that the shelters are

3417
04:53:29,240 --> 04:53:33,784
operating today. And we should proceed and should clarity be

3418
04:53:33,885 --> 04:53:36,824
required in the future again, uh, which I don't think

3419
04:53:36,845 --> 04:53:39,777
it will be. That's a change that can be made.

3420
04:53:40,619 --> 04:53:44,278
Down the road by a subsequent Council in the future,

3421
04:53:44,278 --> 04:53:46,118
but the work that our staff have done on all

3422
04:53:46,118 --> 04:53:48,278
the other aspects of the guidelines. I would hate to

3423
04:53:48,278 --> 04:53:50,918
see staff throw it out. I would also remind colleagues

3424
04:53:51,179 --> 04:53:55,798
that if you vote no on the motion, you're voting

3425
04:53:55,979 --> 04:53:58,358
no to like just all of the pieces of implementing

3426
04:53:59,339 --> 04:54:02,038
and directing all the other aspects of the guidelines that

3427
04:54:02,078 --> 04:54:06,518
were updated. So I would say pass this, it may

3428
04:54:06,518 --> 04:54:07,878
be silent on a part that you wanted to speak

3429
04:54:07,878 --> 04:54:10,678
to, but being silent on that part doesn't preclude an

3430
04:54:10,678 --> 04:54:11,958
operator from continuing to operate that way.

3431
04:54:21,303 --> 04:54:22,562
You can give me back the chair if you want.

3432
04:54:25,607 --> 04:54:29,691
I'm debating whether or not to do that, but. Then

3433
04:54:29,731 --> 04:54:32,331
go ahead and share the meeting. Looking for any other

3434
04:54:32,432 --> 04:54:36,374
speakers. I see Councillor Ploso on the list. I'll return

3435
04:54:36,374 --> 04:54:40,155
the chair to Mayor Morgan recognising Councillor Pelosa. Okay. Go

3436
04:54:40,155 --> 04:54:46,287
ahead, Councillor. Thank you. Uh, not rising to move adjournment,

3437
04:54:46,287 --> 04:54:52,122
but, uh, it's quite the discussion tonight. I appreciate the

3438
04:54:52,143 --> 04:54:55,962
work stuff done. Uh, the long conversation to get here.

3439
04:54:55,962 --> 04:54:59,242
And the concerns, colleagues are raising about if we're silent

3440
04:54:59,242 --> 04:55:02,362
on something. And if we do something, is it going

3441
04:55:02,402 --> 04:55:06,402
back to this version, a prior version where are we

3442
04:55:06,402 --> 04:55:08,602
landing? That's why I support the referrals. So we could

3443
04:55:08,602 --> 04:55:10,922
have got some feedback from operators if they were saying

3444
04:55:11,503 --> 04:55:16,533
what they wanted to do. Uh, for me. We always

3445
04:55:16,714 --> 04:55:18,133
say we don't think someone's going to come back and

3446
04:55:18,133 --> 04:55:20,213
then it comes back. Maybe not this council, but a

3447
04:55:20,253 --> 04:55:26,190
future council. Like sometimes therations. Sometimes it's just the timing.

3448
04:55:26,371 --> 04:55:31,578
Um. I was interested in a transparency of clarity. Of

3449
04:55:31,599 --> 04:55:34,778
if those wordings are in there. The public knew what

3450
04:55:34,778 --> 04:55:38,458
we're going for. Service providers knew what we're going for.

3451
04:55:38,498 --> 04:55:41,658
People trying to seek help new clarity should they search

3452
04:55:41,658 --> 04:55:45,621
it of what we were going for. I learnt my.

3453
04:55:47,680 --> 04:55:50,779
I learned from prior councils when they thought removing something.

3454
04:55:52,651 --> 04:55:56,070
It would just default to what the powers were out

3455
04:55:56,070 --> 04:55:58,630
there. People can decide. I hate to use the words

3456
04:55:58,670 --> 04:56:02,470
reptilia. It gets Paul too excited. Um, but that was

3457
04:56:02,510 --> 04:56:05,830
it. A Council removed words. Some it became silent on

3458
04:56:05,830 --> 04:56:08,310
it. And it reverted back to something that was provincially

3459
04:56:08,571 --> 04:56:12,630
mandated. That Council, I believe, hadn't attended when they made

3460
04:56:12,651 --> 04:56:14,870
that small change. It ended up being a really big

3461
04:56:15,051 --> 04:56:17,270
change. And that was my fear with this, that if

3462
04:56:17,531 --> 04:56:21,110
we're silent, what are we actually reverting back to and

3463
04:56:21,110 --> 04:56:23,350
what will actually fill the space in the void of

3464
04:56:23,451 --> 04:56:26,790
us actually being very clear in our intentions. Thank you.

3465
04:56:32,723 --> 04:56:38,425
Okay. Councillor Troso, you can speak to the main.

3466
04:56:42,869 --> 04:56:44,608
I hope I don't sound like a broken record here.

3467
04:56:45,567 --> 04:56:49,126
But I need to repeat something. I said before. And

3468
04:56:49,126 --> 04:56:52,266
that is, um, I have some very serious legal concerns

3469
04:56:52,767 --> 04:56:55,626
through the chair. I have some very legal, serious legal

3470
04:56:55,647 --> 04:56:58,746
concerns about where we're going. And it was very happy

3471
04:56:59,167 --> 04:57:02,106
to, um, have this come up later in a staff

3472
04:57:02,146 --> 04:57:04,986
report. But I must ask the question again in light

3473
04:57:04,986 --> 04:57:09,201
of the referrals being defeated. Um, to the, to the

3474
04:57:09,222 --> 04:57:14,074
solicitor. Do we run some any appreciable risk here. Of

3475
04:57:14,655 --> 04:57:20,559
charter challenges. Uh, of human rights code violations and other

3476
04:57:20,580 --> 04:57:25,759
potential legal issues that, that could, um, plague this Council.

3477
04:57:26,699 --> 04:57:28,918
And I really do not like putting you on the

3478
04:57:28,958 --> 04:57:31,558
spot like this, which is why I thought the referral

3479
04:57:31,598 --> 04:57:34,758
was appropriate, but I have no choice right now to

3480
04:57:34,779 --> 04:57:42,957
ask you that question. Go ahead. Uh, thank you. In

3481
04:57:42,957 --> 04:57:47,477
addition to my earlier comments, any commentary on risk would

3482
04:57:47,498 --> 04:57:54,335
have to occur in camera. I move that we adjourn.

3483
04:57:55,227 --> 04:57:59,286
To go into camera for the purpose of getting legal

3484
04:57:59,627 --> 04:58:04,744
advice. On the issues I had raised as just responded

3485
04:58:04,784 --> 04:58:07,304
to by the city solicitor. I think we have to

3486
04:58:07,325 --> 04:58:09,784
do that now. And I so move that we go

3487
04:58:09,824 --> 04:58:13,841
into camera. Um, and I hope I get a second

3488
04:58:14,102 --> 04:58:17,199
and I hope, I hope at the very least. You'll

3489
04:58:17,380 --> 04:58:20,929
support this. And, um, we can get the best information

3490
04:58:21,110 --> 04:58:23,649
that we can because we're not, we're not operating on

3491
04:58:23,670 --> 04:58:26,415
good up information now. And this is a very perilous

3492
04:58:26,455 --> 04:58:31,403
direction we're going in. Okay. So.

3493
04:58:36,930 --> 04:58:39,469
Okay. So that's a motion to go into camera to

3494
04:58:39,509 --> 04:58:42,194
receive advice on the matter before us. There's some language

3495
04:58:42,234 --> 04:58:46,434
that we have kind of always ready for that. Just

3496
04:58:46,434 --> 04:58:49,356
need a seconder for that. Councillor Hopkins willing to second.

3497
04:59:08,122 --> 04:59:09,941
So going into camera's move to second and any discussion.

3498
04:59:11,417 --> 04:59:16,885
Yeah. Councillor Ramen and then Deputy Mary Lewis. Uh, thank

3499
04:59:16,885 --> 04:59:20,165
you. I'm just looking for clarity on what are we

3500
04:59:20,165 --> 04:59:27,874
going in camera for. I'm happy to lay it out

3501
04:59:28,055 --> 04:59:31,005
in greater detail if you want me to. Speed. The

3502
04:59:31,005 --> 04:59:40,233
reason because. This is. What everybody

3503
04:59:40,654 --> 04:59:43,353
understands what it is. Okay. Uh, Council convenes in closed

3504
04:59:43,353 --> 04:59:45,113
session for the purpose of considering the following. A matter

3505
04:59:45,134 --> 04:59:48,073
of the subject is solicitor client privilege, including communications necessary

3506
04:59:48,113 --> 04:59:51,091
for that purpose. With respect to the staff report dated

3507
04:59:51,432 --> 04:59:54,531
August 10th, 2026 related to the housing stability procurement and

3508
04:59:54,531 --> 05:00:00,826
delivery framework emergency shelter guidelines, 2011 versus 2026. Comparative analysis

3509
05:00:01,487 --> 05:00:06,545
and the proposed emergency shelter guidelines. So all those pieces.

3510
05:00:08,040 --> 05:00:11,924
There's the staff report. And the proposed guidelines. That's good.

3511
05:00:11,924 --> 05:00:14,384
And that would cover all of the. So Council, you

3512
05:00:14,384 --> 05:00:16,244
don't have the four. Council Rahman was asking a question

3513
05:00:16,265 --> 05:00:21,455
and I'm just clarifying. Uh, thank you, three. So, um,

3514
05:00:22,536 --> 05:00:26,915
we're getting legal advice on components of which we're not

3515
05:00:26,915 --> 05:00:31,774
even debating technically at this point. The 2011 and the

3516
05:00:31,795 --> 05:00:40,174
2026 comparative analysis piece. We've received. We've already went past

3517
05:00:40,195 --> 05:00:42,734
that in this part of the discussion. So I'm not

3518
05:00:42,734 --> 05:00:47,168
sure what we're going in camping. So. This listener was

3519
05:00:47,168 --> 05:00:49,008
given a heads up that there might be a quest

3520
05:00:49,048 --> 05:00:52,208
to go into camera. Uh, I think some broad -

3521
05:00:52,208 --> 05:00:55,008
based parameters assist the solicitor in being able to bring

3522
05:00:55,008 --> 05:00:58,688
up anything that, uh, she, or they may need in

3523
05:00:58,688 --> 05:01:01,648
the discussion. I can't really comment on the rest of

3524
05:01:01,648 --> 05:01:05,648
the language. But that's the title of the item that

3525
05:01:05,749 --> 05:01:08,688
is before us. And so it's basically what we're talking

3526
05:01:08,728 --> 05:01:11,095
about now. But I would just go and buy the

3527
05:01:11,095 --> 05:01:14,855
language that clerks develop for this based on their conversation.

3528
05:01:18,103 --> 05:01:20,002
Okay. Thank you. I'm still unclear as to the question

3529
05:01:20,103 --> 05:01:21,842
as to why we're going to camera. So I won't

3530
05:01:21,842 --> 05:01:31,197
be part of. The. Mayor, Lewis. Well, I'll say I

3531
05:01:31,197 --> 05:01:33,357
won't be supporting it either. I think I've heard clearly

3532
05:01:33,458 --> 05:01:36,237
what I need to hear. However, um, as a point

3533
05:01:36,237 --> 05:01:38,717
of order, it's a good thing. There's no SPPC report

3534
05:01:38,738 --> 05:01:40,877
because we still have ICSE to go and it is

3535
05:01:40,877 --> 05:01:43,517
20 minutes to six. And while I won't be supporting

3536
05:01:43,538 --> 05:01:45,677
it, I would suggest that your worship may want to

3537
05:01:45,698 --> 05:01:48,477
call for an extension past 6 p. m. before moving

3538
05:01:48,658 --> 05:01:48,957
in camera.

3539
05:02:28,048 --> 05:02:30,347
Yeah. So, um, can be made in camera to go

3540
05:02:30,387 --> 05:02:32,602
past 6. But I think it's more transparent to do

3541
05:02:32,602 --> 05:02:35,882
it now. So we'll just do it now. Um, so

3542
05:02:35,983 --> 05:02:40,027
you want to, I need someone to move. Councillor Stevenson

3543
05:02:40,208 --> 05:02:46,110
Moose. Councillor Hopkins second. We're going to open that for

3544
05:02:46,110 --> 05:02:46,190
voting.

3545
05:03:20,717 --> 05:03:23,256
Closing the vote, motion carries 11 to 4.

3546
05:03:32,922 --> 05:03:36,350
Okay. Now we're on the close session. Piece. Any other

3547
05:03:36,390 --> 05:03:39,680
discussion. Okay. We're going to vote on the motion to

3548
05:03:39,680 --> 05:03:40,400
go into closed session.

3549
05:04:11,630 --> 05:04:16,520
Closing the vote. Motion carries 9 to 6. Okay. We'll

3550
05:04:16,520 --> 05:04:17,320
move to Committee Room 5.

3551
05:36:39,044 --> 05:36:39,983
Okay, please be seated.

3552
05:38:00,317 --> 05:38:04,409
Okay, we're back in public session. Councillor Trosow has to

3553
05:38:04,449 --> 05:38:07,636
go on camera. We went in camera. Councillor Trosow, he

3554
05:38:07,636 --> 05:38:10,076
had the floor. I don't know if you have any

3555
05:38:10,097 --> 05:38:14,480
final comments. Before, but you hold the floor now, now

3556
05:38:14,480 --> 05:38:18,097
that we've come back from main camera. Yes, how much

3557
05:38:18,137 --> 05:38:27,809
time do I have. I honestly have no idea. And

3558
05:38:27,830 --> 05:38:29,489
I was, so let's call it three. And I'm sorry

3559
05:38:29,529 --> 05:38:32,529
for that, but the timer got cleared when we timed

3560
05:38:32,550 --> 05:38:41,660
camera. I'll be brief. Okay. So. I thought that the

3561
05:38:42,001 --> 05:38:45,472
questions that I was raising were legitimate questions. I'm not

3562
05:38:45,493 --> 05:38:48,512
gonna talk about what went on in closed sessions, because

3563
05:38:48,512 --> 05:38:51,392
I can't do that. But I will say I'm not

3564
05:38:51,413 --> 05:38:55,578
walking out of here tonight. Feeling good about the process

3565
05:38:56,159 --> 05:38:59,338
or our prospects. And I'm still very worried about this.

3566
05:38:59,949 --> 05:39:03,848
I think that the excellent work that was done by

3567
05:39:04,029 --> 05:39:12,165
the step, and I went. I wanna look.

3568
05:39:13,823 --> 05:39:16,522
I really want addressed, I went to look senior staff

3569
05:39:16,543 --> 05:39:19,989
in the face and address this right now. The work

3570
05:39:20,029 --> 05:39:25,109
that was done by the staff on directly to staff,

3571
05:39:25,109 --> 05:39:26,629
speaking through the chair, and you can make comments on

3572
05:39:26,629 --> 05:39:30,629
the debate. Okay, so I just wanna let the senior

3573
05:39:30,629 --> 05:39:33,269
staff, now when everybody that worked on this file, that

3574
05:39:33,269 --> 05:39:35,029
in my view, this was excellent staff work. It was

3575
05:39:35,069 --> 05:39:37,829
very difficult, staff work. And you took on some very

3576
05:39:37,869 --> 05:39:44,372
difficult questions that were known to be controversial. And we

3577
05:39:44,793 --> 05:39:47,332
made a significant, and I think it's a significant departure.

3578
05:39:48,329 --> 05:39:50,468
From the staff recommendation. I don't think this was a

3579
05:39:50,508 --> 05:39:53,960
minor change. I've heard it said that this was just

3580
05:39:53,981 --> 05:39:56,440
a minor change from the staff report. This is a

3581
05:39:56,440 --> 05:40:02,280
fundamental shift in direction that I think raises a whole

3582
05:40:02,301 --> 05:40:06,680
panel of issues that are gonna need to be addressed.

3583
05:40:06,680 --> 05:40:08,680
And if they're not addressed to discouncil table, they will

3584
05:40:08,680 --> 05:40:13,452
be addressed. Elsewhere. Now, in closing, I just want to

3585
05:40:13,452 --> 05:40:17,779
say that it is not my intention. To help people

3586
05:40:18,840 --> 05:40:21,619
smuggle drugs or use drugs or get drugs into these

3587
05:40:21,800 --> 05:40:26,419
facilities. My intention here is to assist as many people

3588
05:40:26,520 --> 05:40:30,579
as possible to get the type of treatment and support

3589
05:40:31,880 --> 05:40:34,668
and help that they need. And we have to be

3590
05:40:36,529 --> 05:40:40,348
the situation from the lens of the clientele who will

3591
05:40:40,388 --> 05:40:43,308
be using this service. And I worry sometimes that we're

3592
05:40:43,348 --> 05:40:47,868
looking at it from more of an administrative lens. We

3593
05:40:47,908 --> 05:40:49,308
have to look at this from the point of view

3594
05:40:49,649 --> 05:40:53,148
of people who are not gonna come into these facilities.

3595
05:40:53,148 --> 05:40:56,500
30 seconds. They're scared. And I think that that is

3596
05:40:56,500 --> 05:41:00,814
going to have an appreciable effect. On the effectiveness of

3597
05:41:00,835 --> 05:41:03,774
this program. And again, it's too bad, as I said

3598
05:41:03,774 --> 05:41:10,494
before than too bad, it's tragic. What I said before,

3599
05:41:10,835 --> 05:41:20,734
my closing thought, heroic, and very, very valuable, not just

3600
05:41:20,734 --> 05:41:24,734
for London, but for the other communities watching. And it's,

3601
05:41:24,734 --> 05:41:27,694
I think it's very unfortunate that we chose not to

3602
05:41:27,694 --> 05:41:30,334
do that. And I hope that at some point this

3603
05:41:30,374 --> 05:41:32,974
or the next Council will reconsiderate. Thank you, Colin. This

3604
05:41:32,974 --> 05:41:39,333
direction. Thank you. Other speakers.

3605
05:41:47,009 --> 05:41:50,828
Okay, there's been a request to separate one part for

3606
05:41:50,828 --> 05:41:55,833
the final vote, and that's part. B, which is the

3607
05:41:56,094 --> 05:42:00,297
directly implementation. That's the only part I've been asked to

3608
05:42:00,337 --> 05:42:06,018
have addressed separately. So. Okay, so we'll do that first,

3609
05:42:06,018 --> 05:42:09,719
and then we'll do all the other pieces. Okay, so

3610
05:42:09,820 --> 05:42:10,999
we'll open B for voting.

3611
05:42:27,477 --> 05:42:32,032
Closing the vote motion carries nine to four. Okay, and

3612
05:42:32,073 --> 05:42:35,953
all the other clauses. Will open that for voting.

3613
05:43:00,064 --> 05:43:05,001
Councillor Traso. Of president, I vote yes on receiving the

3614
05:43:05,041 --> 05:43:13,854
report. Do we have your microphone councillor, Triso. Noted, closing

3615
05:43:13,894 --> 05:43:22,872
the vote, motion carries 11 to 2. That concludes my

3616
05:43:22,912 --> 05:43:30,187
report. Thank you for your report. All right, we're on

3617
05:43:30,227 --> 05:43:33,947
to infrastructure and corporate services committee. It's a four item

3618
05:43:33,987 --> 05:43:36,152
report. I will turn it over to the chair to

3619
05:43:36,152 --> 05:43:41,352
present that. So four iron reports. Whereas half bean pulled,

3620
05:43:41,352 --> 05:43:45,592
so, sorry, but, uh, we, uh, this is 13th report

3621
05:43:45,632 --> 05:43:49,377
of infrastructure and corporate services committee. Um, and I've had

3622
05:43:49,417 --> 05:43:53,017
requests for item two and four to be pulled. So

3623
05:43:53,017 --> 05:43:55,697
I will look to move one and three unless there

3624
05:43:55,697 --> 05:43:58,417
are other pull requests. So looking for those four. I'll

3625
05:43:58,417 --> 05:44:00,257
give you one's disclosures. I think we could just do

3626
05:44:00,358 --> 05:44:02,577
one in three together. Even if people wanted debate it.

3627
05:44:02,577 --> 05:44:05,337
Um, I guess if you want to amend three, it

3628
05:44:05,337 --> 05:44:07,377
has to be separate. Does anybody want to men three.

3629
05:44:08,654 --> 05:44:10,393
No, okay, then you can put one in three on

3630
05:44:10,393 --> 05:44:12,073
the floor. Okay, I'll put one in three on the

3631
05:44:12,113 --> 05:44:16,900
floor. Okay, that's on the floor, any discussion. All right,

3632
05:44:16,900 --> 05:44:17,780
we're going to open that promoting.

3633
05:44:45,426 --> 05:44:49,418
Closing the vote, motion carries 13 to zero. Go ahead,

3634
05:44:49,418 --> 05:44:53,258
Councillor. Okay, I will put item two on the floor.

3635
05:44:53,258 --> 05:44:56,778
This is the school crossing guard program Councillor Trosso has

3636
05:44:56,778 --> 05:45:02,284
an amendment. He'd like to repord. That's on the floor.

3637
05:45:02,284 --> 05:45:07,211
Councillor Trosso. Go ahead. Um, thank you. Thank you very

3638
05:45:07,251 --> 05:45:16,498
much. And through you, I submitted a slight amendment. Which

3639
05:45:16,498 --> 05:45:20,818
I hope will be, um, less difficult as the less

3640
05:45:20,839 --> 05:45:23,298
one, uh, but I, what, what I'm looking for here

3641
05:45:23,319 --> 05:45:28,978
is the addition of the words, um, and other information.

3642
05:45:29,212 --> 05:45:34,524
No. Including accidents reported near accidents and other information reported

3643
05:45:34,625 --> 05:45:41,539
from school principals, teachers, staff, students, and adjoining residents. And

3644
05:45:41,640 --> 05:45:44,419
that's the motion and I'll wait to see if there's

3645
05:45:44,459 --> 05:45:47,939
a second before I talk about why I think that's

3646
05:45:47,979 --> 05:45:50,579
a good addition. I'll second it for you. So go

3647
05:45:50,579 --> 05:45:52,339
ahead. Thank you. I'll go, I'll go right into it

3648
05:45:52,379 --> 05:45:59,357
then. Um. This staff report really, I got into some

3649
05:45:59,397 --> 05:46:04,430
very interesting questions about the feedback from principles. And the

3650
05:46:04,451 --> 05:46:09,390
thing about the feedback from principles was they didn't, they

3651
05:46:09,411 --> 05:46:12,910
didn't go into a lot of detail. Um, counting the

3652
05:46:12,950 --> 05:46:15,550
responses from principles, but it was going at a particular

3653
05:46:15,571 --> 05:46:17,870
direction. And that was there were a lot of concerns

3654
05:46:17,870 --> 05:46:21,070
about the safety around the schools. And of course, that's,

3655
05:46:21,070 --> 05:46:23,881
that's not much of a surprise. Now, um, the reason

3656
05:46:23,902 --> 05:46:27,241
I'm doing this amendment is I don't want this to

3657
05:46:27,262 --> 05:46:31,640
just be, um, accounting exercise. In terms of doing the

3658
05:46:31,680 --> 05:46:34,440
traffic study and counting cars. I want to make sure

3659
05:46:35,181 --> 05:46:39,240
that this, that this, uh, that this exercise takes into

3660
05:46:39,261 --> 05:46:45,140
account also the qualitative aspect of what the principles, the

3661
05:46:45,140 --> 05:46:49,400
students, the staff, and, uh, the crossing guards themselves and

3662
05:46:49,400 --> 05:46:52,920
the, um, adjacent residents have, have to say about this.

3663
05:46:52,920 --> 05:46:56,120
And I think that'll just make it a more complete,

3664
05:46:56,141 --> 05:47:00,040
better report to continue along the lines of doing the,

3665
05:47:00,040 --> 05:47:04,200
uh, exposure index, um, analysis. So I think this is

3666
05:47:04,221 --> 05:47:07,860
a very, very small, small - es - and. And

3667
05:47:07,860 --> 05:47:10,440
we've seen this question come up quite a bit with

3668
05:47:10,480 --> 05:47:13,640
respect to, um, some of the requests that we've had

3669
05:47:13,981 --> 05:47:17,640
in neighbourhoods for either additional crossing guards or for additional

3670
05:47:17,661 --> 05:47:22,040
traffic mitigation. Measures, we just went through a very, very

3671
05:47:22,061 --> 05:47:27,750
fullsome exercise in Old North. Where we looked at, yes,

3672
05:47:27,750 --> 05:47:29,750
we looked at the data. We looked at the numbers,

3673
05:47:29,750 --> 05:47:32,550
but we also looked at a lot of qualitative feedback

3674
05:47:32,811 --> 05:47:34,790
from the residents. And I think that that was a

3675
05:47:34,790 --> 05:47:38,628
benefit. To the staff. So I hope that I'm not,

3676
05:47:38,628 --> 05:47:41,988
um, indicating the staff that I don't think their work

3677
05:47:41,988 --> 05:47:44,148
was good. I think it was fine. I just think

3678
05:47:44,809 --> 05:47:47,668
by making it explicit that we're going to also look

3679
05:47:47,708 --> 05:47:50,788
at this qualitative data, I think we'll have a more

3680
05:47:50,809 --> 05:47:54,468
fulsome report. In the end, and I'm hoping that the,

3681
05:47:54,468 --> 05:47:56,868
uh, I know the traffic department is quite capable of

3682
05:47:56,889 --> 05:48:00,768
doing that. And, um, I hope that this, this, um,

3683
05:48:00,768 --> 05:48:03,748
this minor amendment, uh, pass this. So thank you very

3684
05:48:03,748 --> 05:48:12,382
much. Okay. Any discussion on the amendment. Okay.

3685
05:48:13,901 --> 05:48:15,000
See none. We'll open that for voting.

3686
05:48:28,971 --> 05:48:32,814
Closing the vote. Motion carries 12 to one. And, um,

3687
05:48:33,655 --> 05:48:36,274
Councillor Chair, are you willing to move the as a

3688
05:48:36,274 --> 05:48:39,448
mented motion. Yes on there. Okay. Councillor Trosa, your second.

3689
05:48:41,145 --> 05:48:43,524
Deal. Second it. Yes. Okay. Um, and a discussion on

3690
05:48:43,524 --> 05:48:49,245
the as amended motion. Caseeing none, we will open that

3691
05:48:49,285 --> 05:48:58,334
for voting. Cousin Vowel Motion carries 13 to zero.

3692
05:48:59,953 --> 05:49:05,066
Councillor McAllister. Thank you. And I will put item four

3693
05:49:05,087 --> 05:49:07,546
on the floor. This is the amendment to the Council

3694
05:49:07,567 --> 05:49:10,666
Procedure By - Law of the Striking Committee and Councillor

3695
05:49:10,706 --> 05:49:14,533
Farrer had an amendment for this one. Okay. That's on

3696
05:49:14,573 --> 05:49:19,906
the floor. Council Ferrari. Thank you Mayor. I circulated a

3697
05:49:19,906 --> 05:49:23,922
referral on this one. I did circulate it, but if

3698
05:49:23,922 --> 05:49:26,322
you want me to read it out, I can. Yes,

3699
05:49:26,322 --> 05:49:31,968
please. All right. I just have to find it. I'll

3700
05:49:31,968 --> 05:49:33,088
have it in front of me. Can the clerks put

3701
05:49:33,088 --> 05:49:36,638
that on eScribe so I can read that. All right,

3702
05:49:36,638 --> 05:49:41,750
here it is. Oh, wait. That's not it. If you're

3703
05:49:41,750 --> 05:49:51,038
a frash, it's sir. Okay. So, uh, moving to refer,

3704
05:49:51,038 --> 05:49:53,118
uh, in the referral is that the staff report dated

3705
05:49:53,158 --> 05:49:57,518
August 12th, 2026 related to amending the Council procedure bylaw

3706
05:49:57,539 --> 05:50:02,318
A61 by removing the requirement for the appointment of a

3707
05:50:02,339 --> 05:50:05,918
striking committee for initial citizen appointments to boards and commissions

3708
05:50:06,819 --> 05:50:09,758
following a municipal election be referred to the next meeting

3709
05:50:09,798 --> 05:50:13,758
of the infrastructure and corporate services committee for further consideration.

3710
05:50:17,562 --> 05:50:23,595
Is there a seconder for that? Councillor Troso. Okay, on

3711
05:50:24,216 --> 05:50:26,675
the. All right. Well, the reason I move in this

3712
05:50:26,715 --> 05:50:29,715
referral is because, um, I have some obviously some issues

3713
05:50:29,715 --> 05:50:32,995
with it. Like I do appreciate that independent community based

3714
05:50:33,176 --> 05:50:36,175
layer, um, that goes over all the ABC appointments. And

3715
05:50:36,175 --> 05:50:39,235
I would say that this Council and Past Councils have

3716
05:50:39,416 --> 05:50:41,635
seen some issues coming up with some of the ABC

3717
05:50:41,896 --> 05:50:43,795
appointments. And I feel like if we were to have

3718
05:50:44,056 --> 05:50:48,835
that extra striking committee, um, going over everything, bringing recommendations,

3719
05:50:48,835 --> 05:50:51,875
that would ensure that we have the knowledge, the experience,

3720
05:50:51,875 --> 05:50:56,095
um, and the expertise, uh, for the overall skills, uh,

3721
05:50:56,136 --> 05:50:59,235
needed. Because otherwise, and I do understand that the SPPC

3722
05:50:59,256 --> 05:51:02,275
will be the ultimate decider. But to have those recommendations

3723
05:51:02,456 --> 05:51:05,375
come through, if we didn't have that, then otherwise, um,

3724
05:51:06,616 --> 05:51:11,235
you would have, you wouldn't really have the qualifications really,

3725
05:51:11,235 --> 05:51:13,715
uh, be focused on for the composition. It would be

3726
05:51:13,715 --> 05:51:15,935
really kind of attuned to the Council of Preferences. And

3727
05:51:15,935 --> 05:51:19,155
I'm trying to depoliticize this as much as we can.

3728
05:51:19,155 --> 05:51:21,475
Because in the end, our ABCs are supposed to be

3729
05:51:21,816 --> 05:51:25,395
providing that greater benefit, that greater good and that smooth

3730
05:51:25,416 --> 05:51:29,875
operation for whatever the ABC is. So this is really

3731
05:51:29,896 --> 05:51:31,475
kind of something that I think that we should really

3732
05:51:31,496 --> 05:51:35,475
have, um, here we should have that extra level of

3733
05:51:35,515 --> 05:51:38,515
insight. It will help us make our decisions. And it

3734
05:51:38,515 --> 05:51:40,835
will help us really understand of, you know, after that

3735
05:51:40,875 --> 05:51:43,235
review from a striking committee that, you know, that citizen

3736
05:51:43,275 --> 05:51:47,315
layer, that community layer of, um, just giving us kind

3737
05:51:47,315 --> 05:51:50,675
of that recommendation to show that, you know, this, this

3738
05:51:50,696 --> 05:51:53,715
candidate has, you know, these qualifications, this candidate has these

3739
05:51:53,755 --> 05:51:56,515
qualifications. Otherwise, it's just going to be a matter of,

3740
05:51:56,515 --> 05:51:59,732
of Councillor preference when it comes to that. And I

3741
05:51:59,732 --> 05:52:01,892
would say, you know, I do understand that Council should

3742
05:52:01,932 --> 05:52:05,652
retain the appointment, but we should at least have that

3743
05:52:05,993 --> 05:52:10,372
extra guiding, um, factor. Because we have seen, um, in

3744
05:52:10,412 --> 05:52:13,012
this term, you know, some issues that could come up.

3745
05:52:13,012 --> 05:52:14,932
And I feel like we need to be able to

3746
05:52:15,673 --> 05:52:18,692
use as much resources as possible that will help us

3747
05:52:18,713 --> 05:52:21,252
make those considerations. Because I don't want to have this

3748
05:52:21,292 --> 05:52:26,772
overly political. I would say that, um, I understand that

3749
05:52:26,873 --> 05:52:29,472
there were some issues with the striking committees and the

3750
05:52:29,472 --> 05:52:31,732
compositions of maybe some members not being able to show

3751
05:52:31,772 --> 05:52:34,372
up or having issues with quorum. But I think taking

3752
05:52:34,473 --> 05:52:37,732
a sledgehammer approach and just removing the striking committee altogether

3753
05:52:38,073 --> 05:52:41,492
is not the prudent approach. If we have some issues,

3754
05:52:41,492 --> 05:52:45,092
we should look into how we can recompose or how

3755
05:52:45,092 --> 05:52:49,012
we would set the striking committee, um, amount of members

3756
05:52:49,052 --> 05:52:51,332
that comes through. But I don't think just removing it

3757
05:52:51,332 --> 05:52:53,892
all together is the right answer. Because in the end,

3758
05:52:54,153 --> 05:52:57,412
you know, like you've heard this term before, but the

3759
05:52:57,433 --> 05:53:00,292
definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and

3760
05:53:00,313 --> 05:53:03,972
again and again. And I feel like we see some

3761
05:53:04,012 --> 05:53:06,292
of the issues that have arisen and now we're taking

3762
05:53:06,313 --> 05:53:10,772
away that insurance mechanism that could help us not repeat

3763
05:53:10,793 --> 05:53:13,092
some of the same issues we saw, um, in the

3764
05:53:13,092 --> 05:53:15,412
past. So I think it would be a wise choice

3765
05:53:15,412 --> 05:53:19,292
to refer this and not remove this striking committee. So

3766
05:53:19,292 --> 05:53:21,572
I would like to have some details back from staff

3767
05:53:21,593 --> 05:53:24,692
on how we could recompose or we could mitigate some

3768
05:53:24,732 --> 05:53:27,812
of the issues we saw in this last Council's striking

3769
05:53:27,852 --> 05:53:31,092
committee that was brought to me by the clerks rather

3770
05:53:31,132 --> 05:53:38,377
than just remove it entirely. Go ahead to the clerk.

3771
05:53:39,776 --> 05:53:43,275
Thank you, your worship. Uh, just before I begin my

3772
05:53:43,315 --> 05:53:46,315
substantive answer, I just want to flag that even if

3773
05:53:46,576 --> 05:53:49,675
a referral is supported given the timeline in order to

3774
05:53:49,675 --> 05:53:53,675
provide Council the full option. We would likely advertise and,

3775
05:53:53,675 --> 05:53:58,395
uh, seek members to comprise the striking committee given the

3776
05:53:58,435 --> 05:54:01,515
timelines. The reason we would do that is to provide

3777
05:54:01,616 --> 05:54:05,835
that option should Council choose to disband the striking committee

3778
05:54:06,416 --> 05:54:09,115
than we would advise the members that had put their

3779
05:54:09,155 --> 05:54:11,595
names forward. I just wanted to flag that if you

3780
05:54:11,595 --> 05:54:14,695
do see, uh, outreach from the clerk's department. It's not

3781
05:54:14,695 --> 05:54:18,355
going contrary to whatever is decided here. It's simply to

3782
05:54:18,355 --> 05:54:21,115
ensure that you have that option before you. Uh, the

3783
05:54:21,155 --> 05:54:23,675
other part I just wanted to mention is, uh, quite

3784
05:54:24,336 --> 05:54:28,715
rightly the Councillor has indicated some issues that were experienced

3785
05:54:29,056 --> 05:54:31,915
at the start of the term, um, there was only

3786
05:54:31,936 --> 05:54:37,800
one citizen at large applied for five positions. And then

3787
05:54:38,061 --> 05:54:41,080
resigned just prior to the meeting. So we had no,

3788
05:54:41,080 --> 05:54:45,720
uh, citizens at large. These standard advertisement, recruitment approach, which

3789
05:54:45,720 --> 05:54:50,760
is very broad, was undertaken by the city clerk's office.

3790
05:54:50,760 --> 05:54:53,160
Certainly, uh, we would endeavour to make it as broad

3791
05:54:53,200 --> 05:54:57,080
as possible. Uh, as we always do, um, there is

3792
05:54:57,080 --> 05:54:59,960
no guarantee that we would get that engagement from members

3793
05:54:59,981 --> 05:55:04,580
of the public. We also had some regrets from, uh,

3794
05:55:04,580 --> 05:55:09,800
other striking member composition. Um, and those are the kind

3795
05:55:09,800 --> 05:55:13,080
of the standing organisations. Uh, we would endeavour to encourage

3796
05:55:13,501 --> 05:55:18,360
particition should Council go in that direction. But that said,

3797
05:55:18,360 --> 05:55:22,360
uh, given the timing, uh, the appointments to the striking

3798
05:55:22,400 --> 05:55:25,880
committee pursuant to the existing Council procedure bylaw would need

3799
05:55:25,880 --> 05:55:28,360
to be done no later than they last regular Council

3800
05:55:28,360 --> 05:55:30,920
meeting of this term. So I just wanted a flag

3801
05:55:30,941 --> 05:55:34,254
a few of those issues. Thank you. Okay, just some

3802
05:55:34,254 --> 05:55:37,454
clarification questions from the clerk's comments on, not just to

3803
05:55:37,454 --> 05:55:41,294
make sure I understand this correctly. Um, so if Council

3804
05:55:41,334 --> 05:55:44,814
were to approve this referral from what the clerk is

3805
05:55:44,814 --> 05:55:48,334
telling me, considering the timelines you would still proceed with

3806
05:55:48,374 --> 05:55:52,714
the current mechanism of the striking committee. Because you don't

3807
05:55:52,754 --> 05:55:56,954
have sufficient time to make that, um, that report back.

3808
05:55:56,954 --> 05:56:00,634
However, in time, this would be, I guess, for the

3809
05:56:00,674 --> 05:56:03,674
next Council term, you would be able to look into

3810
05:56:03,674 --> 05:56:06,154
the composition. We'd have a report back. Is that just

3811
05:56:06,154 --> 05:56:06,794
to clarify the first part.

3812
05:56:19,320 --> 05:56:23,376
Okay. So what the clerk said was. If we referred

3813
05:56:23,376 --> 05:56:27,852
it, we will have not made a decision. To keep

3814
05:56:27,873 --> 05:56:30,012
all the options on the table. The clerk would be

3815
05:56:30,033 --> 05:56:37,240
required to advertise for the striking committee. Uh, through the

3816
05:56:37,261 --> 05:56:42,280
referral Council decided to keep the striking committee. There would

3817
05:56:42,280 --> 05:56:44,680
not be sufficient time to advertise at that point on.

3818
05:56:44,680 --> 05:56:46,440
So they would be preemptive in that if they decided

3819
05:56:46,541 --> 05:56:50,120
not to, we'd be telling the people who applied actually

3820
05:56:50,221 --> 05:56:53,160
where we've decided not to proceed. So the reason why

3821
05:56:53,261 --> 05:56:56,360
the clerk said that is didn't want Councillors to think

3822
05:56:56,360 --> 05:56:59,640
that they were proceeding in the absence of a Council

3823
05:56:59,680 --> 05:57:04,280
decision. Um, given the, if the referral passed, um, but,

3824
05:57:04,320 --> 05:57:06,760
but wanted to reserve Council's right to populate that committee.

3825
05:57:08,887 --> 05:57:11,986
Thank you. That fits my understanding then. Um, and I

3826
05:57:11,986 --> 05:57:14,226
would also say if we did proceed to do this

3827
05:57:14,247 --> 05:57:17,266
referral, we could learn, I guess, from another round of

3828
05:57:17,266 --> 05:57:21,106
the striking committee. Um, so I like that. I understand

3829
05:57:21,146 --> 05:57:23,666
that. I think that's fine. But I'd also, I guess

3830
05:57:23,687 --> 05:57:26,866
follow up with if we were to not proceed with

3831
05:57:27,367 --> 05:57:30,226
the referral and vote it down and vote with the

3832
05:57:30,407 --> 05:57:34,686
recommendation from committee, there would be no striking committee, um,

3833
05:57:35,607 --> 05:57:38,146
appointments being sought after. And we wouldn't see anything like

3834
05:57:38,186 --> 05:57:42,318
that. We'd be following the committee's recommendation, which would be

3835
05:57:42,579 --> 05:57:45,750
to not proceed with a striking committee. Okay. Thank you

3836
05:57:45,750 --> 05:57:54,001
for that. Okay. Councillor Frank on the referral. Thank you.

3837
05:57:54,041 --> 05:57:56,241
And I'll be quick. Um, I won't be supporting the

3838
05:57:56,241 --> 05:57:59,761
referral. I sat on the Strang Committee in 2019 and

3839
05:57:59,761 --> 05:58:03,041
Council ignored about 80 percent of our recommendations and it

3840
05:58:03,081 --> 05:58:05,361
kind of felt like a waste of time. Um, my

3841
05:58:05,382 --> 05:58:07,761
time, the Clark's time, other members on the string committee.

3842
05:58:07,761 --> 05:58:09,421
And that's fine because Council at the end of the

3843
05:58:09,421 --> 05:58:12,561
day chooses who they put on all these committees. I

3844
05:58:12,561 --> 05:58:15,501
think we saw the same thing happen most recently. And

3845
05:58:15,501 --> 05:58:18,321
I think that Council will ultimately end up choosing who

3846
05:58:18,361 --> 05:58:21,761
they want to put on the various ABCs. Um, and

3847
05:58:22,342 --> 05:58:25,281
of course I think we all are able, all council

3848
05:58:25,281 --> 05:58:28,241
members are able to go and ask for advice and

3849
05:58:28,241 --> 05:58:31,521
input from experts and from nonprofits in the community on

3850
05:58:31,561 --> 05:58:33,601
who they think should be sitting on and serving on

3851
05:58:33,622 --> 05:58:37,441
our ABCs. But, um, I, from personal experience, did not

3852
05:58:37,441 --> 05:58:40,321
find the striking committee to be a good use of

3853
05:58:40,342 --> 05:58:44,658
time. Any other speakers on the referral? Uh, Deputy R.

3854
05:58:44,679 --> 05:58:49,753
Lewis. Yes, I agree with Councillor Frank. I don't think

3855
05:58:50,094 --> 05:58:51,633
the Striking Committee is a good use of time. I

3856
05:58:51,633 --> 05:58:56,353
won't be supporting the referral. Uh, the timing from, as

3857
05:58:56,353 --> 05:58:59,193
we've heard from the clerk, is really short now anyway.

3858
05:58:59,193 --> 05:59:01,753
Uh, we need to make a decision tonight. Um, I

3859
05:59:01,793 --> 05:59:06,153
will say in two terms, the input from the striking

3860
05:59:06,153 --> 05:59:08,953
committee with no offence to Councillor Frank was not something

3861
05:59:08,993 --> 05:59:14,075
that is Councillor. I really considered. The Councillors are the

3862
05:59:14,075 --> 05:59:17,548
ones elected to make the decisions. And the Councillors need

3863
05:59:17,548 --> 05:59:19,788
to be free to speak to or not speak to

3864
05:59:19,809 --> 05:59:22,908
whomever they want to seek advice from. Um, the striking

3865
05:59:22,908 --> 05:59:26,348
committee does not bear any more weight for me than

3866
05:59:26,529 --> 05:59:31,200
the input from anyone else in the entire community. Including

3867
05:59:31,541 --> 05:59:34,400
colleagues around this horseshoe who might know somebody on the

3868
05:59:34,661 --> 05:59:37,440
striking or on the, um, resumes that come in who

3869
05:59:37,440 --> 05:59:39,260
they might say, Hey, that's a really good person. And

3870
05:59:39,260 --> 05:59:41,280
they, they come and speak to it when we're making

3871
05:59:41,320 --> 05:59:45,100
those appointments. And I appreciate that feedback from Councillors, uh,

3872
05:59:45,301 --> 05:59:50,160
because it does help. Um, I think it's a frankly,

3873
05:59:50,160 --> 05:59:53,440
in my opinion, not a good use of the clerks

3874
05:59:53,480 --> 05:59:58,351
time. Uh, to have, uh, submit all of the, uh,

3875
05:59:58,952 --> 06:00:02,451
advertising, get that out there, review the appointments if there

3876
06:00:02,472 --> 06:00:04,851
are, even any, uh, as we've heard, we didn't attract

3877
06:00:04,891 --> 06:00:08,531
anyone last time. Uh, then circulate all the resumes to

3878
06:00:08,531 --> 06:00:14,238
those committee members. Be there to assist with meeting oversight,

3879
06:00:14,238 --> 06:00:16,318
uh, and then put all of that information into a

3880
06:00:16,358 --> 06:00:20,158
package for the new Council that, as Councillor Frank has

3881
06:00:20,158 --> 06:00:24,078
indicated, many councillors, um, didn't follow when she was on

3882
06:00:24,078 --> 06:00:27,198
the Striking Committee. Certainly hasn't had an impact on my

3883
06:00:27,198 --> 06:00:31,802
decision. Uh, this to me is just. Not a value

3884
06:00:31,802 --> 06:00:35,759
to it. I'm prepared to say, uh, it is gone.

3885
06:00:35,759 --> 06:00:38,159
The decision does rest with Council. The Councillors are the

3886
06:00:38,159 --> 06:00:41,039
one who are elected to make decisions, um, and you

3887
06:00:41,039 --> 06:00:42,639
can consult whoever you want, but we don't need to

3888
06:00:42,639 --> 06:00:46,233
have a formal committee to do that. Any other speakers.

3889
06:00:47,446 --> 06:00:53,819
Councillor Tross Sa. Thank you. Thank you very much. May

3890
06:00:53,819 --> 06:00:57,419
I ask the clerk to the chair? Not an exact

3891
06:00:57,459 --> 06:01:00,519
number, but rough estimate. And I'm not talking about, um,

3892
06:01:00,640 --> 06:01:03,899
advisory committees. I'm just talking about the boards and commissions.

3893
06:01:03,899 --> 06:01:09,263
Approximately how many applications, um, approximately. Came in for review

3894
06:01:10,244 --> 06:01:12,783
during the period at the beginning of the last council.

3895
06:01:13,921 --> 06:01:22,231
Roughly. The answer is that was four years ago. We'd

3896
06:01:22,231 --> 06:01:27,134
be totally ballparking in. So sorry. Um, I guess it

3897
06:01:27,174 --> 06:01:30,334
doesn't help, but I think it was about this much.

3898
06:01:31,951 --> 06:01:34,330
In terms of the thickness of the packet, but it

3899
06:01:34,370 --> 06:01:41,950
was, it was a lot, but, um, maybe she's. Okay,

3900
06:01:41,950 --> 06:01:44,030
let me move on to the next question. And what

3901
06:01:44,131 --> 06:01:47,950
is the time period that Councillors, that the SPPC members

3902
06:01:47,950 --> 06:01:50,670
will have from the time that they received the packet

3903
06:01:51,091 --> 06:02:00,736
to the day of the SPPC edition. I wouldn't have

3904
06:02:00,776 --> 06:02:05,745
the clerk cancer that. So through your worship, we did

3905
06:02:05,766 --> 06:02:10,705
delay some of the appointments. And certainly, uh, SPPC can

3906
06:02:11,526 --> 06:02:16,625
refer certain appointments. Should it choose? There are some timelines

3907
06:02:16,726 --> 06:02:22,625
with some of the ABCs that they may find critical.

3908
06:02:22,625 --> 06:02:25,265
Uh, the turnaround time would be the typical turnaround time

3909
06:02:25,286 --> 06:02:29,565
for, uh, agendas, uh, so you would receive it. And

3910
06:02:29,565 --> 06:02:33,185
you would, uh, you would have it on the agenda.

3911
06:02:33,185 --> 06:02:34,705
And, uh, that, that's the amount of time that you

3912
06:02:34,745 --> 06:02:39,505
would have. That said, SPPC can refer matters. They can

3913
06:02:39,505 --> 06:02:44,945
make some appointments, refers some other appointments. For example, say

3914
06:02:44,966 --> 06:02:48,545
some positions only have a handful of applicants. Some positions

3915
06:02:48,566 --> 06:02:51,985
may have, uh, the number of applicants that are required

3916
06:02:52,006 --> 06:02:54,385
to fill that position and that's it. Some may have

3917
06:02:54,385 --> 06:02:58,835
a lot. So I'll just end it there. So, um,

3918
06:02:58,956 --> 06:03:02,855
if I, if I may, um, add to that typically,

3919
06:03:02,855 --> 06:03:05,015
tell me if I'm wrong, typically we'll get the packet

3920
06:03:06,156 --> 06:03:10,432
Thursday, maybe Wednesday. Uh, and it would be typically a

3921
06:03:10,432 --> 06:03:17,499
Tuesday meeting. Is that correct? But that's correct. Okay. Um,

3922
06:03:17,680 --> 06:03:21,659
so my, my feeling about this is, um, and that

3923
06:03:21,659 --> 06:03:25,474
would take place at the first SPPC meeting. No, I

3924
06:03:25,495 --> 06:03:28,514
can answer that. Um, we passed a motion to delay

3925
06:03:28,695 --> 06:03:30,834
a number of the citizens appointments by extending their terms

3926
06:03:31,815 --> 06:03:33,554
into, I can't remember the date, but it would certainly

3927
06:03:33,594 --> 06:03:36,354
not be the first SVVC. It would be into the

3928
06:03:36,394 --> 06:03:39,976
new year. Okay. That's good to know. So my feeling

3929
06:03:40,016 --> 06:03:42,565
is we should keep the striking committees. And the reason

3930
06:03:42,565 --> 06:03:45,525
why I think we should keep the striking committees is

3931
06:03:45,626 --> 06:03:50,485
I think that we need to do more to talk

3932
06:03:50,746 --> 06:03:55,445
to our residents about civic participation. Because I think civic

3933
06:03:55,466 --> 06:03:59,205
participation is at an overall low right now. It's, it's,

3934
06:03:59,205 --> 06:04:01,685
it's reflected in what was said about the committee's last

3935
06:04:01,725 --> 06:04:05,297
time. And it's also reflected in the voter turnout. Last

3936
06:04:05,297 --> 06:04:08,236
time. Um, it's reflected by a lot of things. And

3937
06:04:08,276 --> 06:04:11,636
I think just to say that, well, we're going to

3938
06:04:11,636 --> 06:04:14,800
make the decisions anyway. So let's not have the striking

3939
06:04:14,840 --> 06:04:18,400
committee. It's, it's a little analogous to saying we're going

3940
06:04:18,400 --> 06:04:20,720
to make the decisions anyway. So maybe we don't need

3941
06:04:20,901 --> 06:04:24,080
so many, um, citizen advisory committees. And I'm not talking

3942
06:04:24,080 --> 06:04:27,040
about advisory committees, but I think it's the same thinking.

3943
06:04:27,040 --> 06:04:30,640
It's the same kind of thinking. We need to engage

3944
06:04:31,301 --> 06:04:34,940
the public much better than we do right now. And

3945
06:04:34,981 --> 06:04:37,920
I think that like eliminating the striking committees is going

3946
06:04:37,920 --> 06:04:42,164
to be sending the wrong signal. To our, our, our

3947
06:04:42,265 --> 06:04:45,604
residents at a critical, at a critical time. So I

3948
06:04:45,604 --> 06:04:49,444
would strongly urge, just encouraging you on the referral, right?

3949
06:04:49,465 --> 06:04:53,604
Right now we're referring it. So, um, well, and without

3950
06:04:53,625 --> 06:04:56,644
the referral, we're just not going to have it. Yeah,

3951
06:04:56,644 --> 06:04:58,484
I can come back and explain why I would vote

3952
06:04:58,665 --> 06:05:01,604
no on the, on the motion. But the referral will

3953
06:05:01,644 --> 06:05:04,324
at least give us the chance to look this over

3954
06:05:04,505 --> 06:05:09,795
again. And the good reasons why. We should have these

3955
06:05:09,835 --> 06:05:12,915
striking committees. And at the, at the meeting to which

3956
06:05:12,936 --> 06:05:15,555
this is referred, people would be able to address that

3957
06:05:17,336 --> 06:05:20,212
in better detail than we can. At this late hour.

3958
06:05:21,256 --> 06:05:26,195
Thank you. Any other speakers to this. Okay. We're voting

3959
06:05:26,195 --> 06:05:28,616
on the referral. And we'll open that for voting.

3960
06:05:43,330 --> 06:05:49,069
The vote. Motion fails three to 10. And on the

3961
06:05:49,170 --> 06:05:56,717
committee recommendation, any other speakers. Out. Well, once again, I'm

3962
06:05:56,757 --> 06:06:01,037
sorry to say that since the referral lust, um, I

3963
06:06:01,218 --> 06:06:02,957
sadly, I'm not going to be able to support this

3964
06:06:03,698 --> 06:06:08,477
committee recommendation. Because basically the committee recommendation is saying, let's

3965
06:06:08,477 --> 06:06:13,117
not worry about getting more citizen impact feedback into this.

3966
06:06:13,117 --> 06:06:15,314
Let's just go ahead and do it ourselves. We'll have

3967
06:06:15,314 --> 06:06:18,606
the weekend. We'll have the weekend. That's a FIC packet.

3968
06:06:19,533 --> 06:06:21,592
I'm sorry we don't have the exact number of people.

3969
06:06:21,613 --> 06:06:24,712
People apply to the library board. I mean, I mean,

3970
06:06:24,712 --> 06:06:26,552
people want to be on the, a number of these

3971
06:06:26,653 --> 06:06:30,443
boards. It's very important. And I think that by, um,

3972
06:06:30,964 --> 06:06:35,263
by just sort of pushing this through, uh, and there's

3973
06:06:35,364 --> 06:06:39,343
only so much spoutiny, uh, even the most diligent SPPC

3974
06:06:39,364 --> 06:06:43,903
member can devote to this, to this file over the

3975
06:06:43,903 --> 06:06:45,903
weekend, I presume that that's, that's not going to be

3976
06:06:45,903 --> 06:06:48,783
the only thing in the SPPC pack at that early

3977
06:06:49,204 --> 06:06:52,223
in the term. So I think we're sending a very

3978
06:06:52,324 --> 06:06:55,960
negative signal. At a time when we really need to

3979
06:06:55,960 --> 06:07:00,510
be increasing civic particition. And not only do we need

3980
06:07:00,510 --> 06:07:04,350
to be increasing civic participation. We need to look back

3981
06:07:05,251 --> 06:07:10,670
and understand why these instances of civic participation failed in

3982
06:07:10,670 --> 06:07:14,035
the past. And rather than to say. They failed in

3983
06:07:14,035 --> 06:07:17,695
the past wasn't a good use of my time, uh,

3984
06:07:17,695 --> 06:07:20,827
let's just not do it. I think we need to

3985
06:07:20,928 --> 06:07:25,387
critically accept what was the dynamic that led people to

3986
06:07:25,427 --> 06:07:28,427
think this wasn't something they wanted to do. So I

3987
06:07:28,688 --> 06:07:31,307
very much, I'm very keen to go ahead and try

3988
06:07:31,347 --> 06:07:34,547
to recruit people for these striking committees. We used to

3989
06:07:34,547 --> 06:07:37,267
have them, uh, we used to have a good, we

3990
06:07:37,328 --> 06:07:39,907
have, we used to have a big, uh, sort of

3991
06:07:40,128 --> 06:07:43,467
cross section of different groups. I remember we had, we

3992
06:07:43,568 --> 06:07:46,267
had the Chamber of Commerce. We had the labour council.

3993
06:07:46,267 --> 06:07:49,467
We had a variety. We had a variety of groups.

3994
06:07:49,467 --> 06:07:51,307
And it was, it was very useful. And I think

3995
06:07:51,408 --> 06:07:54,507
we're giving up something very important. If we just push

3996
06:07:54,608 --> 06:07:58,387
this, uh, throughout regard to how this is going to

3997
06:07:58,608 --> 06:08:05,310
view how the public. Have the public is going to

3998
06:08:05,451 --> 06:08:09,350
view, um, cutting out of one of the few opportunities

3999
06:08:09,371 --> 06:08:12,750
they have to engage in this meaningful decision making. So

4000
06:08:12,971 --> 06:08:17,568
please vote no on this. Thank you. Okay. Any other

4001
06:08:17,608 --> 06:08:20,000
speakers. All right. We're going to open that for voting.

4002
06:08:46,791 --> 06:08:53,835
Councillor Hillier, Council of Traso. Oh, there it goes.

4003
06:08:58,581 --> 06:09:01,440
Thank you closing a vote. Motion carries 10 to three.

4004
06:09:03,432 --> 06:09:10,850
That's recount my report. Okay. Thank you. Um, added reports.

4005
06:09:10,850 --> 06:09:12,450
I just handed you the added report from the closed

4006
06:09:12,490 --> 06:09:15,410
session. Um, you'd be happy with this one. Usually you

4007
06:09:15,450 --> 06:09:17,090
read a long time last time. So I'll let you

4008
06:09:17,130 --> 06:09:20,130
do this one though. Uh, thank you. Yes. This is

4009
06:09:20,130 --> 06:09:21,970
the 13th report of Council and Closed session. I think

4010
06:09:22,010 --> 06:09:23,970
this is the shortest one I ever got. So thank

4011
06:09:23,970 --> 06:09:26,859
you for that. That progress is made with respect to

4012
06:09:26,960 --> 06:09:29,659
items 4. 1 and 4. 2 as noted on the

4013
06:09:29,659 --> 06:09:36,059
public agenda, which was 6. Uh, 12 PEC 6. 1

4014
06:09:36,320 --> 06:09:42,219
slash 13 slash Ics. And that, uh, progress was made,

4015
06:09:42,219 --> 06:09:44,379
uh, for the added, um, added matter that we went

4016
06:09:44,379 --> 06:09:48,493
into closed session for. Okay. And you know what? We

4017
06:09:48,533 --> 06:09:51,693
don't even have to vote on that because they're just

4018
06:09:51,693 --> 06:09:56,322
a reporter progress. It's just a verbal statement. Uh, point

4019
06:09:56,322 --> 06:09:59,362
of personal privilege. Sure. Um, I would, on that last

4020
06:09:59,463 --> 06:10:02,002
matter for the closed session that we just went through,

4021
06:10:02,002 --> 06:10:04,562
I do want to dissent the progress was made. I

4022
06:10:04,562 --> 06:10:07,042
don't, I just want to, I just want to indicate

4023
06:10:07,223 --> 06:10:12,242
my, um, dissent to that perspective. Okay. Okay. That's not

4024
06:10:12,282 --> 06:10:15,282
a thing in our procedure bylaw. So we're, we're going

4025
06:10:15,282 --> 06:10:18,376
to move on. Um. Deferred matters. I need to forget

4026
06:10:18,376 --> 06:10:28,196
matters. Okay. Inquiries. Any inquiries. Emergent motions. None. Okay. Bylaws.

4027
06:10:48,400 --> 06:10:49,659
This is going to take a moment because people are

4028
06:10:49,699 --> 06:10:52,779
telling the clerks now that they want things pulled, which

4029
06:10:52,779 --> 06:10:58,333
is not as helpful as before. Councillor Frank. Yes, as

4030
06:10:58,333 --> 06:11:00,853
circulate via email, I would like to refer one of

4031
06:11:00,853 --> 06:11:03,792
the bylaws. We're not there yet.

4032
06:11:30,406 --> 06:11:32,705
Okay. I'm going to read out how we can do

4033
06:11:32,705 --> 06:11:35,635
this. We're going to do Bill 302 first, which is

4034
06:11:35,896 --> 06:11:40,177
the striking committee item. 306.

4035
06:11:48,156 --> 06:11:51,255
306, which is the one that Councillor Frankie wanted to

4036
06:11:51,295 --> 06:11:55,194
fur. But I'll just note that until second reading. So

4037
06:11:55,455 --> 06:11:58,154
we have to deal with first reading. Doesn't come into

4038
06:11:58,194 --> 06:12:02,530
effect. He can refer and debate at second rating. Uh,

4039
06:12:02,711 --> 06:12:05,390
that's the appointment of Deputy Mayor and budget chair. Um,

4040
06:12:06,311 --> 06:12:11,453
308. Counts. I don't know what one that is, but

4041
06:12:11,574 --> 06:12:15,305
a Councillor asked for that separate. It's the street spy

4042
06:12:15,486 --> 06:12:21,850
law. Uh, 305 and 324, which is the PEC motion

4043
06:12:21,871 --> 06:12:29,284
related to DRNess. And then everything else. Does that sound

4044
06:12:29,305 --> 06:12:30,650
OK? To everybody.

4045
06:12:50,450 --> 06:12:52,829
Okay. Is anybody supportive of all the things that I

4046
06:12:52,829 --> 06:12:55,069
can just use the same move in section or deputy

4047
06:12:55,810 --> 06:12:59,863
Lewis Encounter Ke. Always so agreeable. I appreciate it. It

4048
06:12:59,863 --> 06:13:02,591
makes, uh, makes it a little quicker. Um, okay. So

4049
06:13:02,612 --> 06:13:05,349
that's how we're going to proceed. Unless I just want

4050
06:13:05,349 --> 06:13:07,749
to make sure people had time to look at them.

4051
06:13:13,432 --> 06:13:15,011
All right. We're going to start with 302, which is

4052
06:13:15,051 --> 06:13:18,931
the striking committee item. Um, moved by Deffy Murray Lewis,

4053
06:13:18,931 --> 06:13:21,011
seconded by Councillor Ketty. This is first reading. So we'll

4054
06:13:21,051 --> 06:13:21,571
open that for voting.

4055
06:13:31,063 --> 06:13:37,429
Motion carries 11 to two. And second reading, any discussion.

4056
06:13:39,684 --> 06:13:48,589
Okay. Seeing none, we'll open that. Motion carries 11 to

4057
06:13:48,629 --> 06:13:51,886
two. And third and final reading. We'll open that for

4058
06:13:51,886 --> 06:14:00,346
voting. Motion carries 11 to 2.

4059
06:14:09,268 --> 06:14:12,607
Okay. 306 is the next one we'll do. We got

4060
06:14:12,607 --> 06:14:15,903
to move our in secondary. We'll do first reading. Open

4061
06:14:15,903 --> 06:14:16,223
that for voting.

4062
06:14:29,970 --> 06:14:34,225
Motion carries eight to five. Okay. Second reading. Any discussion.

4063
06:14:34,838 --> 06:14:39,164
Councillor Frank. Thank you. Yes. I would like to refer

4064
06:14:39,185 --> 06:14:43,204
this by law to a future meeting of SPPC. I

4065
06:14:43,204 --> 06:14:46,684
believe we have one in September to include provisions regarding

4066
06:14:46,945 --> 06:14:50,204
the nomination process of Deputy Mayor, including that where nominee

4067
06:14:50,305 --> 06:14:52,364
is not confirmed by Council. The mayor may continue to

4068
06:14:52,404 --> 06:15:02,335
make nominations until nominee is confirmed by Council. Second year

4069
06:15:02,335 --> 06:15:09,847
for that Councillor Farra. It's a referral. So that's debatable.

4070
06:15:09,847 --> 06:15:12,983
So go ahead. Thank you. Yes. Um, I'll remind folks

4071
06:15:12,983 --> 06:15:17,623
that we had discussed this policy at a previous governance

4072
06:15:17,663 --> 06:15:22,243
working group committee meeting, believe, uh, mid last year. And

4073
06:15:22,243 --> 06:15:26,503
we had discussed having clarity around the nomination process. Right

4074
06:15:26,503 --> 06:15:29,283
now, uh, in the policy, it just states that, uh,

4075
06:15:29,283 --> 06:15:31,863
the mayor will nominate a deputy mayor who will be

4076
06:15:31,863 --> 06:15:33,863
confirmed by Council. And I asked at the time what

4077
06:15:33,903 --> 06:15:36,263
happens if they're not confirmed. Um, and I just wanted

4078
06:15:36,303 --> 06:15:38,503
some clarity around that just so that, you know, in

4079
06:15:38,503 --> 06:15:42,103
the future, if for whatever reason happens, that Council does

4080
06:15:42,103 --> 06:15:45,063
not agree with the mayor's position, uh, we know what

4081
06:15:45,084 --> 06:15:48,743
direction to take. And, uh, this one seems to be,

4082
06:15:48,743 --> 06:15:52,343
um, somewhat easy. And at the point that the nominees

4083
06:15:52,343 --> 06:15:54,583
confer by Council, uh, then we can move forward with

4084
06:15:54,583 --> 06:15:58,503
that position. So just seeking, um, a referral so that

4085
06:15:58,503 --> 06:16:02,183
we can have that added before, uh, new Council is

4086
06:16:02,223 --> 06:16:11,979
elected. Any other speakers to the referral? Depreence. Thank you,

4087
06:16:11,979 --> 06:16:15,399
Chair. So, uh, Setting aside, uh, my own bias, uh,

4088
06:16:18,000 --> 06:16:20,379
well, I think that this is sort of a, and

4089
06:16:20,419 --> 06:16:22,539
I said this, this isn't a DIG at Councillor Frank

4090
06:16:22,640 --> 06:16:24,419
because I said this at governance working group two. I

4091
06:16:24,419 --> 06:16:26,379
think this is a bit of a problem or a

4092
06:16:26,379 --> 06:16:28,699
solution in search of a problem. Um, I don't think

4093
06:16:28,800 --> 06:16:31,619
in the entire history of the City of London, a

4094
06:16:31,619 --> 06:16:34,619
council hasn't affirmed the mayor's appointment to the deputy mayor

4095
06:16:34,619 --> 06:16:39,659
position. Nonetheless, um, I appreciate Councillor Frank's desire for some

4096
06:16:39,699 --> 06:16:41,285
clarity of language. I just don't think we need to

4097
06:16:41,285 --> 06:16:43,845
go through whole committee cycle. I think the language you've

4098
06:16:43,866 --> 06:16:46,885
suggested is very clear. However, I realised that clerks need

4099
06:16:46,885 --> 06:16:50,622
time to edit the bylaw. Um, so I'd like to

4100
06:16:50,662 --> 06:16:52,462
amend this to just have it brought back to the

4101
06:16:52,563 --> 06:16:55,822
October 14th Council. And I will share that at this

4102
06:16:55,822 --> 06:16:59,182
point, uh, the SPPC meeting in September does not have

4103
06:16:59,443 --> 06:17:02,597
any staff reports yet. On the agenda. That doesn't mean

4104
06:17:02,597 --> 06:17:05,157
that there may not be some, uh, because I know

4105
06:17:05,258 --> 06:17:08,437
staff are working on a couple, but, um, that might

4106
06:17:08,477 --> 06:17:11,557
not fall. Like that meeting might not occur. So I

4107
06:17:11,557 --> 06:17:14,117
think the language Councillor Frank has suggested could simply be

4108
06:17:14,157 --> 06:17:15,717
written into the By - on brought back to us

4109
06:17:16,058 --> 06:17:19,477
on October 14th. So I'm going to move an amendment

4110
06:17:21,658 --> 06:17:24,357
that this be referred to the October 14th Council meeting.

4111
06:17:27,172 --> 06:17:30,671
And that, uh, civica administration, the clerks in this case

4112
06:17:31,412 --> 06:17:33,311
be directed to amend the Bylaw to reflect the language

4113
06:17:33,351 --> 06:17:38,101
from the Councillor. Can Councillor Cuddy wants to second that

4114
06:17:38,101 --> 06:17:41,301
amendment. So we're amending just the part on the reporting

4115
06:17:41,402 --> 06:17:46,101
back from SPPC to Council. And then you're picking the

4116
06:17:46,101 --> 06:17:50,992
specific meeting. Okay. So the only one more Council meeting

4117
06:17:50,992 --> 06:17:55,583
of this term. Okay. Well, that's probably a good one

4118
06:17:55,583 --> 06:17:59,101
to do it at then. Okay. Um. Yeah, that's that's

4119
06:17:59,122 --> 06:18:01,341
okay. The set amendments on the Ford Council Cutty seconded

4120
06:18:01,341 --> 06:18:04,628
it. Uh, so we're on the amendment now. I'll look

4121
06:18:04,628 --> 06:18:09,881
for speakers on the amendment. Go ahead, Councillor TroSile. I

4122
06:18:09,881 --> 06:18:13,001
think my question though, it's relevant to the main motion.

4123
06:18:13,001 --> 06:18:14,641
It's also relevant to the amendment. So I'm going to

4124
06:18:14,641 --> 06:18:19,315
ask it now. How did something get onto the stage

4125
06:18:19,736 --> 06:18:24,195
13 agenda where we do three readings of typically that

4126
06:18:24,235 --> 06:18:27,475
have been done previous in the meeting. I've never seen

4127
06:18:27,816 --> 06:18:31,555
an instance where this Council or any previous council that

4128
06:18:31,555 --> 06:18:36,091
I've been watching. Has done three readings of a bylaw

4129
06:18:36,112 --> 06:18:39,211
if it wasn't something that was on that Council agenda.

4130
06:18:39,211 --> 06:18:43,291
And I actually went back and looked. It's hard to

4131
06:18:43,392 --> 06:18:45,771
figure out, but I thought I'd also talk to some

4132
06:18:45,771 --> 06:18:50,336
of the former councillors. Nobody has any recollection. Of something

4133
06:18:50,517 --> 06:18:55,627
making it onto the stage 13, three reading. Of agenda

4134
06:18:55,648 --> 06:18:59,827
that hadn't previously been on that same Council agenda. So

4135
06:18:59,827 --> 06:19:03,787
I guess my question is how did this get on

4136
06:19:04,048 --> 06:19:09,747
this agenda. In stage 13? If it wasn't on the,

4137
06:19:09,747 --> 06:19:12,947
um, Agenda previously on this meeting, how did that happen?

4138
06:19:13,528 --> 06:19:15,587
Okay. That's the question for the clerk. I'll let the

4139
06:19:15,627 --> 06:19:18,867
clerk answer. Certainly on the current agenda, there are a

4140
06:19:18,867 --> 06:19:24,047
number of bills that, uh, are on the agenda, for

4141
06:19:24,047 --> 06:19:33,170
example, Bill 308 through. 20. At least, uh, that are

4142
06:19:33,170 --> 06:19:36,610
on the agenda. Those are related to dedications of public

4143
06:19:36,631 --> 06:19:42,530
highways. Uh, those relate to active city business, uh, but

4144
06:19:42,530 --> 06:19:45,730
they wouldn't go through a typical process. For items where

4145
06:19:45,770 --> 06:19:49,890
there's a clear direction from Council, where the new decision

4146
06:19:49,930 --> 06:19:53,890
to be made where there's, uh, direction, for example, the

4147
06:19:53,890 --> 06:19:59,170
referral before, um, before Council right now, that would be

4148
06:19:59,191 --> 06:20:03,170
the October 14th change to bring it back to Council.

4149
06:20:03,170 --> 06:20:10,023
It would appear on a Bylaw list. Thank you. Councillor

4150
06:20:10,063 --> 06:20:13,989
Trosa. Well, um, I would like to say I'm going

4151
06:20:13,989 --> 06:20:18,229
to save my, I'm going to save my other comments.

4152
06:20:18,229 --> 06:20:21,109
But if the referral pass is that's at it tonight.

4153
06:20:21,109 --> 06:20:22,069
So I'm going to say I'm going to be voting

4154
06:20:22,090 --> 06:20:27,011
Noah in the referral. Because I think the, uh, there's

4155
06:20:27,051 --> 06:20:30,131
more to the controversy here. Then this is not just

4156
06:20:30,392 --> 06:20:33,091
cleanup language. This is, this is not housekeeping. There's some

4157
06:20:33,192 --> 06:20:35,891
substantive changes that are being made here. And to have

4158
06:20:36,072 --> 06:20:39,571
this appear at the stage 13, three reading, uh, agenda.

4159
06:20:43,835 --> 06:20:48,405
With, I'm sorry, I'm trying. For this to appear on

4160
06:20:48,666 --> 06:20:52,085
the stage 13 part of the agenda without any indication

4161
06:20:52,106 --> 06:20:54,565
on the rest of the agenda, what this is from.

4162
06:20:54,605 --> 06:20:57,045
I think it's very confusing. The councillors. I also think

4163
06:20:57,045 --> 06:20:59,925
it's very confusing to members of the public. I think

4164
06:20:59,946 --> 06:21:03,011
it's bad practice. It's hard enough to go through and

4165
06:21:03,032 --> 06:21:06,611
be diligent reading all of the, um, staff reports and

4166
06:21:06,632 --> 06:21:08,851
reading all of the things that are on the agenda

4167
06:21:08,872 --> 06:21:11,971
proper. But now apparently we also have to plough through

4168
06:21:11,992 --> 06:21:15,251
all of the bylaws in detail without any age of

4169
06:21:15,592 --> 06:21:18,211
staff report or context to see if there is to

4170
06:21:18,211 --> 06:21:21,571
see if the change. And I think, uh, again, legally

4171
06:21:22,952 --> 06:21:26,341
we can do that. There's nothing in the procedural bylaw

4172
06:21:26,341 --> 06:21:28,581
that says we can't do it. But in terms of

4173
06:21:28,682 --> 06:21:32,901
again, going back to my, um, uh, the plea for

4174
06:21:32,941 --> 06:21:36,261
more transparency and civica engagement, I think this is a

4175
06:21:36,301 --> 06:21:39,061
real bad idea. So I'm not saying that that'll turn

4176
06:21:39,061 --> 06:21:41,061
out different in the end, but I think this is

4177
06:21:41,101 --> 06:21:45,090
an important enough question. That it should come to a,

4178
06:21:45,111 --> 06:21:48,484
it should come to an SPPC meeting properly. On the

4179
06:21:48,505 --> 06:21:53,201
agenda with the step report. Where people can actually make,

4180
06:21:53,201 --> 06:21:57,201
um, at the SPPC, if people have objections to the

4181
06:21:57,222 --> 06:22:00,241
text of the, um, of the By - law change.

4182
06:22:00,241 --> 06:22:03,949
And there are serious changes. They can, they can, they

4183
06:22:03,970 --> 06:22:06,989
can send in and add it. They could also ask

4184
06:22:07,170 --> 06:22:09,309
for delegation. And I don't think we should cut off

4185
06:22:09,349 --> 06:22:12,491
the public's right to do that. Now, of course, if

4186
06:22:12,531 --> 06:22:14,491
we put this on the next Council agenda, we'll get

4187
06:22:14,531 --> 06:22:17,611
a report back. People can still do their, people can

4188
06:22:17,651 --> 06:22:20,571
still do their, uh, added. But we do cut off

4189
06:22:20,611 --> 06:22:23,131
the ability for people to make delegations. I think it's

4190
06:22:23,392 --> 06:22:28,299
a bad precedent. For us to be cutting out. The

4191
06:22:28,320 --> 06:22:32,299
typical, um, standard process of going through committees. And I'm

4192
06:22:32,339 --> 06:22:36,196
not asking for this to go back to governance. I

4193
06:22:36,196 --> 06:22:38,436
said, I don't even think we're having another governance meeting.

4194
06:22:38,436 --> 06:22:40,276
I don't know. But, uh, I do think they should

4195
06:22:40,276 --> 06:22:42,596
go back to SPPC. So I'm going to be voting

4196
06:22:42,777 --> 06:22:46,256
against the referral and should the referral pass. I'll be,

4197
06:22:46,256 --> 06:22:48,836
I'll be making more comments at Council about why I

4198
06:22:48,836 --> 06:22:53,340
think this is a very bad process. Thank you. Okay.

4199
06:22:53,380 --> 06:22:55,100
I'm going to have the clerk respond to that because

4200
06:22:55,100 --> 06:22:58,060
you, uh, you made some comments there about controversy and

4201
06:22:58,081 --> 06:23:01,100
process and procedure, um, I want to clerk to answer

4202
06:23:01,281 --> 06:23:06,540
clearly, uh, why they put this particular item on the

4203
06:23:06,540 --> 06:23:09,728
agenda and the way they did. Thank you, your worship.

4204
06:23:09,829 --> 06:23:13,648
There was a resolution passed by Council where the rules

4205
06:23:13,669 --> 06:23:17,888
and responsibilities as well as the appointment process be clarified.

4206
06:23:17,888 --> 06:23:21,408
So there's clear direction for us to already do the

4207
06:23:21,429 --> 06:23:25,408
work. We did the work. We put it on the

4208
06:23:25,429 --> 06:23:29,888
By - law list. And absolutely Council can refer. They

4209
06:23:29,888 --> 06:23:34,368
can do whatever, uh, Council would like, including amendment or

4210
06:23:34,389 --> 06:23:41,308
debate at second reading. Okay. Strike Council, go ahead. Yeah.

4211
06:23:41,348 --> 06:23:44,508
Well, just to briefly respond to that, this is just

4212
06:23:44,689 --> 06:23:47,308
going to create a situation where we're doing committee work

4213
06:23:47,348 --> 06:23:51,548
at Council again. And yeah, this is what we'll do.

4214
06:23:51,548 --> 06:23:54,668
We'll get the reported Council and the, uh, my view

4215
06:23:54,668 --> 06:23:57,548
is there are substantive differences. And, um, those will be

4216
06:23:57,809 --> 06:24:00,348
raised, those will be raised at Council and we'll get

4217
06:24:00,348 --> 06:24:05,948
into a discussion with amendments and maybe the amendments to

4218
06:24:05,988 --> 06:24:08,868
amendments. I really would like to have that kind of

4219
06:24:09,089 --> 06:24:13,800
discussion. Done at standing committees, not at city council, but

4220
06:24:14,401 --> 06:24:18,942
here we'll go again. So please vote, please vote to

4221
06:24:18,963 --> 06:24:23,262
refer this. Please vote no if the referral path does

4222
06:24:23,262 --> 06:24:26,848
not happen. So thank you very much. Okay. Other speakers

4223
06:24:26,888 --> 06:24:33,774
to the amendment. Go ahead Councillor Stevenson. Uh, thank you.

4224
06:24:33,814 --> 06:24:36,654
I mean, I have seen bills come through in the

4225
06:24:36,654 --> 06:24:39,614
past that aren't, uh, outlined. And I've learned to go

4226
06:24:39,654 --> 06:24:43,214
through the Bills carefully. I do think it would be

4227
06:24:43,235 --> 06:24:45,374
better to have some sort of a cover sheet to

4228
06:24:45,414 --> 06:24:50,254
let us know. We do, it would help. Um, to

4229
06:24:50,254 --> 06:24:53,174
Councillor Tross, I was point though if we don't, if

4230
06:24:53,174 --> 06:24:55,774
this referral doesn't pass, then the bills likely to pass

4231
06:24:55,795 --> 06:24:59,741
as it is. So I would encourage, uh, supporting the

4232
06:24:59,762 --> 06:25:02,841
referral if you don't want this to pass tonight. Um,

4233
06:25:02,882 --> 06:25:06,141
and there would be other ways to potentially make other

4234
06:25:06,402 --> 06:25:09,821
changes through a notice of motion or something before the

4235
06:25:09,821 --> 06:25:18,369
next Council Council. Okay. Anywhere else to the amendment. Oh,

4236
06:25:18,369 --> 06:25:22,769
go ahead Council Farra. Uh, thanks Mayor. Um, can I

4237
06:25:22,769 --> 06:25:28,788
just get, uh, procedurally from the clerk. The amendment here

4238
06:25:28,889 --> 06:25:31,108
to refer be amended to bring back to the October

4239
06:25:32,089 --> 06:25:34,948
14th meeting. Why is that? Could we just, if, if

4240
06:25:34,948 --> 06:25:38,148
the intention is to bring it back, if we were

4241
06:25:38,169 --> 06:25:41,857
to not support the referral. Then this would pass as

4242
06:25:41,897 --> 06:25:44,217
it is now. I just wanted to know procedurally. Is

4243
06:25:44,217 --> 06:25:47,297
there a reason why we have, uh, this amendment brought

4244
06:25:47,337 --> 06:25:51,497
by the Deputy Mayor and Councillor Cuddy. Just procedurally, is

4245
06:25:51,497 --> 06:25:53,217
there procedural reason why we have to have the motion

4246
06:25:53,257 --> 06:25:55,377
to refer to be amended to come back to October.

4247
06:26:00,647 --> 06:26:04,066
Because the Depreamer and Councillor Cuddy are asking it to

4248
06:26:04,066 --> 06:26:07,266
come back to Council for approval at the Council meeting

4249
06:26:07,306 --> 06:26:11,746
on that date. So we can direct things to committee.

4250
06:26:11,746 --> 06:26:13,906
We could drag things to Council. They're just making a

4251
06:26:13,946 --> 06:26:17,832
change to direct it to the Council. So procedurally, it's,

4252
06:26:17,832 --> 06:26:23,820
it's no procedural reason to do this. So I don't

4253
06:26:23,820 --> 06:26:27,260
want to get into a cross debate, but, um, I'll

4254
06:26:27,300 --> 06:26:36,385
let the mover explain the reason. Because procedurally, the clerks

4255
06:26:36,385 --> 06:26:39,720
cannot rewrite the By - law tonight. Councillor Frank has

4256
06:26:39,720 --> 06:26:43,480
provided language to amend the bylaw. Uh, with the clerks

4257
06:26:43,480 --> 06:26:46,200
can't rewrite the bylaw and have it reviewed by legal.

4258
06:26:48,105 --> 06:26:49,684
And have the language in E - Scribe for us

4259
06:26:49,684 --> 06:26:51,602
to vote on. Tonight. They need time to go back

4260
06:26:51,863 --> 06:26:54,882
and put the proposed amendment that Councillor Frank has put

4261
06:26:54,882 --> 06:26:59,778
forward, uh, which I'm supportive of into the bylaw. So

4262
06:26:59,799 --> 06:27:02,098
it doesn't need to go back to committee. It can

4263
06:27:02,138 --> 06:27:04,658
just come back to Council with the amended language once

4264
06:27:04,658 --> 06:27:07,058
the clerks have drafted it up. That's the next opportunity

4265
06:27:07,799 --> 06:27:09,338
really for them to do so if we're going to

4266
06:27:09,338 --> 06:27:11,938
give legal time to review it and make sure that,

4267
06:27:11,938 --> 06:27:14,578
uh, meets all of the legal language requirements as well.

4268
06:27:26,236 --> 06:27:29,655
Okay. Councillor Farrah. Thank you. I was just reminded that

4269
06:27:29,655 --> 06:27:32,135
the motion to refer does say to the next strategic

4270
06:27:32,156 --> 06:27:34,855
priorities and policy committee. So we wouldn't necessarily need a

4271
06:27:34,876 --> 06:27:36,215
by - law to be drafted up before the next

4272
06:27:36,316 --> 06:27:41,491
Council. Um, I do think that something like this, as

4273
06:27:41,491 --> 06:27:43,771
substantive as this, especially when we are going to be

4274
06:27:43,771 --> 06:27:47,531
removing kind of the discretion of the mayor to rotate

4275
06:27:47,712 --> 06:27:50,731
between the skills and experiences, depending on Councillors for Deputy

4276
06:27:50,752 --> 06:27:53,211
Mayor and everything else that Councillor Frank is asking about,

4277
06:27:53,211 --> 06:27:58,011
including clear provisions regarding the nomination process, um, I think

4278
06:27:58,051 --> 06:28:00,974
we should be bringing that to committee. Now, I guess

4279
06:28:01,195 --> 06:28:03,414
next question, and Councillor Trusso kind of alluded to this.

4280
06:28:04,449 --> 06:28:06,908
Can I amend this amendment to send it to committee

4281
06:28:07,329 --> 06:28:12,268
rather than sending it to? No, you got to defeat

4282
06:28:12,308 --> 06:28:18,844
the amendment. And then it goes to committee. So you

4283
06:28:18,844 --> 06:28:20,684
vote no, if you want to do that. You wouldn't

4284
06:28:20,705 --> 06:28:23,804
amend it again. Okay. So I would just clarify. I

4285
06:28:23,844 --> 06:28:27,004
understand the deputy mayor saying that we need the bylaw

4286
06:28:27,004 --> 06:28:30,387
to be drafted up. Um, and they would, the clerks

4287
06:28:30,387 --> 06:28:32,867
would need time for that. But this referral motion is

4288
06:28:32,907 --> 06:28:35,747
to committee, which does not require a bylaw to be

4289
06:28:35,787 --> 06:28:40,329
drafted up at that time. And there is time after.

4290
06:28:40,329 --> 06:28:42,569
Yes, by last come to the committee, uh, as well.

4291
06:28:42,569 --> 06:28:44,649
So the clerks would bring this by a lot to

4292
06:28:44,649 --> 06:28:47,249
the committee, uh, or they'd bring it to Council. So

4293
06:28:47,249 --> 06:28:50,309
it's still a bylaw. It's still at the actual, but

4294
06:28:50,309 --> 06:28:52,329
we can still have that discussion at committee where this

4295
06:28:52,329 --> 06:28:57,902
discussion belongs at SPPC. So, um, I would say vote

4296
06:28:58,243 --> 06:29:00,622
no to this amendment. There's no reason why this amendment

4297
06:29:00,622 --> 06:29:05,062
needs to be here. And support Councillor Frank's referral. We

4298
06:29:05,062 --> 06:29:08,542
need to have this discussion at the proper. Um, forum,

4299
06:29:08,542 --> 06:29:16,531
which is the strategic priorities and policy committee. Other speakers

4300
06:29:16,531 --> 06:29:23,603
to the amendment. Okay. Seeing none, then we're going to

4301
06:29:23,603 --> 06:29:24,203
vote on the amendment.

4302
06:29:51,537 --> 06:29:58,711
Closing the vote. Motion carries seven to six. Okay. So

4303
06:29:59,772 --> 06:30:05,250
on. The, so now it's as amended. I need as

4304
06:30:05,271 --> 06:30:08,857
amended. We have the, so same by - law mover,

4305
06:30:08,857 --> 06:30:12,196
same Bylaw Seconder. As amended this time.

4306
06:30:21,295 --> 06:30:24,382
Okay. So now on the referral. So it's not as

4307
06:30:24,422 --> 06:30:29,973
amended. Sorry, my mistake. The azimated referral. We can still

4308
06:30:29,973 --> 06:30:32,414
vote on. But Council Frank, are you still okay with

4309
06:30:32,454 --> 06:30:35,454
the referral moving it? Okay. So Councillor Frank still the

4310
06:30:35,454 --> 06:30:38,896
mover of the referral. I don't remember who the second

4311
06:30:38,896 --> 06:30:43,641
year was. But Council. Okay. Well, Council Rahman put up

4312
06:30:43,641 --> 06:30:46,428
her hand first. So she's the secondary. No, I wasn't

4313
06:30:46,449 --> 06:30:50,988
second anymore. Oh, he weren't. Okay. Councillor Deputy Mary Lewis

4314
06:30:51,028 --> 06:30:58,729
consecutive. Text. Is now on this. The referral as amended.

4315
06:30:58,729 --> 06:31:04,616
So it's Councillor Frank's referral. With the direction for it

4316
06:31:04,616 --> 06:31:09,705
to go to Council on the 14th. Not SVPC. No,

4317
06:31:09,705 --> 06:31:17,856
that's been amended now based on the last vote. Okay.

4318
06:31:17,856 --> 06:31:27,418
So discussion on the referral now. Head Council

4319
06:31:27,458 --> 06:31:30,538
Ferrari. Okay, thank you. I hear, I heard your comments

4320
06:31:30,538 --> 06:31:34,138
about, uh, the referral to go to strategic priority policy

4321
06:31:34,178 --> 06:31:37,005
committee has been amended. To the October 14th Municipal Council

4322
06:31:37,005 --> 06:31:39,805
meeting. Um, but then it says the referral as amended

4323
06:31:39,826 --> 06:31:42,845
be approved. We still have the words phishing priorities and

4324
06:31:42,885 --> 06:31:47,337
policy committee in there. Is there like a conflict in

4325
06:31:47,377 --> 06:31:49,497
the language here? Is are they counter to each other

4326
06:31:49,838 --> 06:31:53,559
first of all. No, it's just the way we do

4327
06:31:53,559 --> 06:31:57,719
it. We do this all the time. So the motion

4328
06:31:57,740 --> 06:32:03,355
16, uh, motion 16 was amended by motion 17. Motion

4329
06:32:03,395 --> 06:32:05,435
18 is that the referral as a method be approved.

4330
06:32:06,952 --> 06:32:11,503
Um. So it's basically the same thing as 16. Just

4331
06:32:11,503 --> 06:32:14,633
going to the place that was passed in 17. And

4332
06:32:14,633 --> 06:32:18,182
then 18 just captures both those things. It's not in

4333
06:32:18,182 --> 06:32:20,182
conflict. It's the way that this is what we do

4334
06:32:20,182 --> 06:32:22,022
a lot of as a mended motions if you read

4335
06:32:22,022 --> 06:32:24,775
through. Okay. Thank you. So this is a referral. To

4336
06:32:24,796 --> 06:32:27,335
take everything that was done here, but put it back

4337
06:32:27,516 --> 06:32:31,807
into the October 14th Municipal Council meeting. Which we'll just

4338
06:32:31,807 --> 06:32:34,367
go to a by - law reading, just as we

4339
06:32:34,367 --> 06:32:36,420
are now. So the changes. We're just putting it into

4340
06:32:36,441 --> 06:32:40,997
the next Council meeting. No, Councillor Frank added some changes

4341
06:32:41,037 --> 06:32:45,016
to the by - line motion 16. To change the

4342
06:32:45,056 --> 06:32:48,612
language there. So. So she's made a change. It'll come

4343
06:32:48,652 --> 06:32:55,095
back with the language with that change. But including clear

4344
06:32:55,135 --> 06:32:58,055
provisions regarding the nomination process, when do we see the

4345
06:32:58,316 --> 06:33:05,923
clear provisions if it's just a bylaw. That would be

4346
06:33:06,024 --> 06:33:10,194
in the By - law that came back. So the

4347
06:33:10,234 --> 06:33:13,554
direction is tell staff to go make those changes. Bring

4348
06:33:13,554 --> 06:33:16,114
back a bylaw that has those provisions. Because those provisions

4349
06:33:16,154 --> 06:33:20,154
would be in the by - log. And we don't

4350
06:33:20,154 --> 06:33:24,518
know what they would be. Yes, it's in motion 16.

4351
06:33:27,779 --> 06:33:32,678
They would be. Including clear provisions regardless of the nomination

4352
06:33:32,718 --> 06:33:34,998
process. That include where the nominee is not confirmed by

4353
06:33:35,019 --> 06:33:37,398
Council that the mayor may continue to make nominations until

4354
06:33:37,499 --> 06:33:41,207
anominee is confirmed by Council. So that's what Councillor Frank

4355
06:33:41,308 --> 06:33:44,407
has asked to come back with those changes. So the

4356
06:33:45,148 --> 06:33:47,927
new by - law would have that incorporated into it

4357
06:33:47,927 --> 06:33:52,742
in detail. Okay, detail, which again, you know, I don't

4358
06:33:52,782 --> 06:33:55,142
want to be beaten a dead horse here, but we

4359
06:33:55,142 --> 06:33:57,542
should have the discussion at SPPC. And the other changes

4360
06:33:57,643 --> 06:33:59,142
there that we saw on the Spy - Law as

4361
06:33:59,142 --> 06:34:04,262
well. So I guess I'll vote how I do when

4362
06:34:04,603 --> 06:34:11,777
the vote time comes in a couple of minutes. Council

4363
06:34:11,817 --> 06:34:17,987
Ramen. Uh, thank you in through you. I know everyone's

4364
06:34:17,987 --> 06:34:21,427
getting tired. Um, uh, the first thing I wanted to

4365
06:34:21,427 --> 06:34:24,627
bring up is that October 13th is the Council meeting,

4366
06:34:24,627 --> 06:34:29,476
not the 14th. Is a far as I understand our

4367
06:34:29,476 --> 06:34:34,883
calendar that way. It's on our calendars and our outlook

4368
06:34:34,984 --> 06:34:40,483
that way. Oh, in the official Councillor Agenda, because the

4369
06:34:40,523 --> 06:34:46,546
Monday is a Thanksgiving holiday. And previously when we mended

4370
06:34:46,546 --> 06:34:49,346
it, people move things around to make sure that it

4371
06:34:49,346 --> 06:34:53,426
wasn't like a holiday and Council. I don't know, the

4372
06:34:53,426 --> 06:34:55,506
clerk's got the calendar here. I'm just going by the

4373
06:34:55,527 --> 06:34:57,689
clerk. Wednesday. It says she, and he says it's the

4374
06:34:57,729 --> 06:35:00,809
Wednesday at 1 p. m. Perfect. We'll mender calendars then,

4375
06:35:00,809 --> 06:35:04,395
because they all say the 13th. Oh, is this the

4376
06:35:04,395 --> 06:35:08,875
calendars at your staff? Bilton? Oh. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

4377
06:35:08,875 --> 06:35:11,275
So. Okay, so you may let them, their staff know

4378
06:35:11,315 --> 06:35:14,475
that they've got to fix that. I threw the 13th

4379
06:35:14,496 --> 06:35:18,795
or the 14th. Either way, so because we, this was

4380
06:35:18,896 --> 06:35:22,955
amended, we can't refer to another SPPC meeting late October

4381
06:35:23,216 --> 06:35:29,061
the 6th. Because the way that the amendment was done.

4382
06:35:29,061 --> 06:35:29,941
I just want to be clear.

4383
06:35:51,782 --> 06:35:53,601
So I think that would be contrary to the amendment

4384
06:35:53,782 --> 06:35:57,025
we just made that was sent to SPPC. And then

4385
06:35:57,126 --> 06:36:00,545
through that vote, it was a no, send it to

4386
06:36:00,545 --> 06:36:02,545
Council. So I don't think we can mend it back

4387
06:36:02,566 --> 06:36:05,905
to the thing that was just changed, regardless of which

4388
06:36:05,926 --> 06:36:09,025
SPPC meeting, it was a future meeting of SVPC. That

4389
06:36:09,025 --> 06:36:11,585
is a future meeting of SVPC. So I think from

4390
06:36:11,686 --> 06:36:13,665
the advice I got from the clerks, that's, that's been

4391
06:36:13,705 --> 06:36:17,142
decided now. Thank you. And what if it was for

4392
06:36:17,163 --> 06:36:20,502
different reason? So for me, the issue isn't that I

4393
06:36:20,683 --> 06:36:25,382
wanted to refer the matter for just this change that

4394
06:36:25,403 --> 06:36:28,982
Councillor Frank has proposed. Uh, my reason is actually because

4395
06:36:29,243 --> 06:36:32,502
I was looking to get the budget chair policy brought

4396
06:36:32,523 --> 06:36:36,182
forward. Um, I think that we require a discussion as

4397
06:36:36,182 --> 06:36:39,942
a Council as to which roles and how we see

4398
06:36:41,243 --> 06:36:43,862
Council should be best supported in the future. And so

4399
06:36:44,603 --> 06:36:48,182
my reason would be for that exact reason. So I

4400
06:36:48,222 --> 06:36:50,662
would like a discussion at SVP for that reason.

4401
06:37:52,044 --> 06:37:53,703
Okay. So we just need a little bit of clarity

4402
06:37:54,844 --> 06:38:01,212
because I'm asking the clerks. So. The bylaws about the

4403
06:38:01,252 --> 06:38:04,012
appointment process, but you want to have a separate policy

4404
06:38:04,113 --> 06:38:08,252
on Deputy Mayor. Thank you. I want to discuss the

4405
06:38:08,353 --> 06:38:14,269
policy. We're incorporating both positions into a policy. As a

4406
06:38:14,309 --> 06:38:16,589
decision as we move forward. I want to have that

4407
06:38:16,610 --> 06:38:22,311
discussion on the roles. That we're considering in the policy.

4408
06:38:22,311 --> 06:38:24,391
Therefore, I need an SPPC meeting to do so.

4409
06:40:47,152 --> 06:40:51,951
Totally get it. S not complex as it sounds. Okay.

4410
06:40:55,776 --> 06:41:02,148
So. There's no decided matter of Council today. We can't

4411
06:41:03,449 --> 06:41:07,908
change the backdest PPC because it's that vote was made

4412
06:41:08,249 --> 06:41:09,668
You've got a different reason that you want to make

4413
06:41:09,708 --> 06:41:17,405
some other changes. There's there's nothing precluding you from writing

4414
06:41:17,426 --> 06:41:21,200
a communication. To an SBPC meeting or I think that's

4415
06:41:21,240 --> 06:41:27,111
the relevant Council Committee. Having a discussion on that and

4416
06:41:27,111 --> 06:41:31,671
then subsequently that would land at Council at the same

4417
06:41:31,711 --> 06:41:34,471
time, but it would be with the other direction because

4418
06:41:34,511 --> 06:41:36,951
Council will have not made a decision on the policy

4419
06:41:36,991 --> 06:41:39,242
at all. And then it'll be before us with the

4420
06:41:39,263 --> 06:41:41,562
direction further By - lot and then whatever other thing

4421
06:41:41,743 --> 06:41:44,442
came through SPPC and we'd have to reconcile the pieces

4422
06:41:44,543 --> 06:41:49,319
there. Because I guess the clerks aren't exactly sure what

4423
06:41:49,420 --> 06:41:50,519
changed you want to make and maybe it's part of

4424
06:41:50,559 --> 06:41:53,878
a discussion. But that's that's an avenue of pathway Forward

4425
06:41:53,878 --> 06:41:56,678
for you that would involve a discussion at an SVP

4426
06:41:56,678 --> 06:42:00,591
- C meeting. Thank you and so by signalling today

4427
06:42:00,692 --> 06:42:04,831
that the intention to bring a letter to the October

4428
06:42:05,172 --> 06:42:08,751
6th SPPC meeting There is in a way that that

4429
06:42:08,932 --> 06:42:11,631
SPPC meeting doesn't happen because we don't have enough items.

4430
06:43:27,325 --> 06:43:30,104
So I I can't guarantee that because the chair can

4431
06:43:30,765 --> 06:43:33,304
in consultation with what's on the agenda and the workload

4432
06:43:33,645 --> 06:43:39,059
decide to have a meeting or not. There is one

4433
06:43:39,320 --> 06:43:47,150
scheduled. I don't know the load of that yet. Go

4434
06:43:47,150 --> 06:43:50,110
ahead Thank you and therefore that's the reason why I'd

4435
06:43:50,110 --> 06:43:52,430
like to make this an amendment.

4436
06:44:10,178 --> 06:44:11,837
I'm going to call a point of order sure on

4437
06:44:11,877 --> 06:44:17,344
the process here. Yes. Okay. The clerks have brought this

4438
06:44:17,605 --> 06:44:25,167
forward because of a previously adopted Resolution of Council. That

4439
06:44:25,167 --> 06:44:29,603
was passed after an SPPC meeting. The got a report

4440
06:44:29,784 --> 06:44:35,932
from a governance working group meeting. There was no direction

4441
06:44:36,033 --> 06:44:40,492
from that SPPC meeting or that Council Resolution to move

4442
06:44:40,492 --> 06:44:46,892
into discussions about rotating Deputy mayors and how many were

4443
06:44:46,892 --> 06:44:49,692
going to have or how many budget chairs or rotating

4444
06:44:49,732 --> 06:44:51,932
people in anything like that Which I've heard some people

4445
06:44:52,113 --> 06:44:56,732
refer to there's actually already a decided matter of Council

4446
06:44:56,833 --> 06:45:02,412
on that to have the clerks provide direction In a

4447
06:45:02,412 --> 06:45:04,892
bylaw to clarify some of the language around the nomination

4448
06:45:05,073 --> 06:45:10,785
process and confirmation by Council. The rest of those things.

4449
06:45:13,190 --> 06:45:17,729
Were already in the last 12 months debated at an

4450
06:45:17,769 --> 06:45:22,369
SPPC dispensed with Forward into Council and the resolution from

4451
06:45:22,390 --> 06:45:27,112
Council was clerk sprang - forwards and clarifying language. The

4452
06:45:28,173 --> 06:45:32,712
piece that Councillor Frank brought forward tonight was actually not

4453
06:45:32,813 --> 06:45:36,361
only part of the discussion at governance working group. But

4454
06:45:36,401 --> 06:45:39,081
it was part of the discussion at that SPPC as

4455
06:45:39,081 --> 06:45:42,041
well and just wasn't captured in the Council Resolution Which

4456
06:45:42,081 --> 06:45:44,681
is why I'm supportive of having that come back with

4457
06:45:44,862 --> 06:45:51,730
an amended by - law in October. If colleagues want

4458
06:45:51,770 --> 06:45:55,490
to bring something else forward and I'll remind you Um,

4459
06:45:55,530 --> 06:45:57,380
that we are at the end of our term. So

4460
06:45:57,481 --> 06:46:02,094
you have the policy in front of you. There's not

4461
06:46:02,275 --> 06:46:04,654
a need to go through another committee cycle if you

4462
06:46:04,654 --> 06:46:06,894
have a very specific change you want to make You

4463
06:46:06,915 --> 06:46:10,574
could provide a notice of motion on Council before the

4464
06:46:10,614 --> 06:46:14,574
October 14th meeting You could simply write a letter and

4465
06:46:14,574 --> 06:46:15,934
submit it to the clerk and it would be on

4466
06:46:15,934 --> 06:46:19,694
the agenda Related to Bylaws Well, it won't be 306

4467
06:46:19,734 --> 06:46:21,534
at that point in time Uh... The number will change

4468
06:46:21,635 --> 06:46:24,854
I assume. Saying that you want to make another change

4469
06:46:25,515 --> 06:46:27,814
But keep in mind that the scope of the change

4470
06:46:28,555 --> 06:46:32,054
is very much around the by - law we have

4471
06:46:33,675 --> 06:46:37,414
and The already decided matters of Council through SPPC and

4472
06:46:37,414 --> 06:46:40,534
the Council Resolution that was previously passed So there might

4473
06:46:40,534 --> 06:46:44,694
be some minor amendments to language or proposed change to

4474
06:46:45,995 --> 06:46:47,894
And I don't know what Councillor Ramon's Amendment might be

4475
06:46:47,995 --> 06:46:50,294
But maybe she wants to say You know the budget

4476
06:46:50,395 --> 06:46:55,894
chair should also be on You know another border Commission

4477
06:46:55,915 --> 06:46:57,654
because of how it relates to the budget or something

4478
06:46:57,654 --> 06:47:00,374
like that Um... Which would fit into the job description.

4479
06:47:01,804 --> 06:47:04,903
But it's not changing the process of the mayor nominate

4480
06:47:04,903 --> 06:47:07,543
someone and then Council confirms it It's not changing the

4481
06:47:07,583 --> 06:47:10,423
number of budget chairs or the number of deputy mayors

4482
06:47:11,004 --> 06:47:13,943
It's really focused on what is the job description in

4483
06:47:13,943 --> 06:47:21,046
the bylaw So again. There's no. Thing... There's no peace

4484
06:47:21,086 --> 06:47:23,686
of the process that prevents a member of Council from

4485
06:47:23,707 --> 06:47:26,566
just giving that some thought Consulting with our clerks team.

4486
06:47:27,151 --> 06:47:30,330
And putting an amendment on the October 14th Council Agenda.

4487
06:47:32,106 --> 06:47:35,685
So given that we've already passed an amendment to Ford

4488
06:47:35,946 --> 06:47:37,685
This by - law not just a portion of it

4489
06:47:37,706 --> 06:47:40,885
But this bylaw with some specific amended language to the

4490
06:47:40,986 --> 06:47:44,085
October 14th meeting I would suggest that that is the

4491
06:47:44,186 --> 06:47:47,125
process colleagues have to follow They have to put an

4492
06:47:47,165 --> 06:47:52,744
amendment on that agenda of Council. Any Sending it to

4493
06:47:53,485 --> 06:47:55,224
break it up at this point and send it to

4494
06:47:55,224 --> 06:47:57,144
a committee Would I believe be contrary to the motion

4495
06:47:57,165 --> 06:47:59,544
we've ever passed? That's your point of That's the point

4496
06:47:59,544 --> 06:48:02,024
of order And I've already pretty much said that we

4497
06:48:02,064 --> 06:48:02,424
give me a second.

4498
06:48:29,182 --> 06:48:32,967
So. Yes that is what we're doing I mean the

4499
06:48:33,228 --> 06:48:37,063
context there that was unnecessary for this decision. But I

4500
06:48:37,084 --> 06:48:40,183
have to as sharing the meeting with the procedure by

4501
06:48:40,183 --> 06:48:43,571
- law. The motions the Council has made including the

4502
06:48:43,672 --> 06:48:47,569
motion Um... Which I was in the minority on. The

4503
06:48:48,150 --> 06:48:52,744
last motion to amend. And so that's... So but the

4504
06:48:52,744 --> 06:48:55,621
referral is still on the floor as amended. Which can

4505
06:48:55,621 --> 06:49:03,783
be... Pastor defeated... Um... And then I've outlined the Avenue's

4506
06:49:03,823 --> 06:49:06,503
account would have But I just can't make those guarantees

4507
06:49:06,543 --> 06:49:08,983
about the meeting Because I again I don't I don't

4508
06:49:08,983 --> 06:49:10,903
share that meaning And I don't know the workload of

4509
06:49:10,903 --> 06:49:16,765
the agenda So. But we can't... Unless you're going to

4510
06:49:16,765 --> 06:49:20,045
make an amendment to say Bring - Forward... Some more

4511
06:49:20,045 --> 06:49:22,845
language like some other changes that council Like similar to

4512
06:49:22,845 --> 06:49:27,924
what Councillor Frank did. Um I don't think I have

4513
06:49:27,924 --> 06:49:29,524
an avenue besides the one that I've outlined with you

4514
06:49:30,185 --> 06:49:32,804
going through committee Committee to do anything different than what

4515
06:49:32,844 --> 06:49:39,437
Council's already decided tonight. Um... So far. Which... Again, I

4516
06:49:39,477 --> 06:49:42,157
wish I could give you a different answer But going

4517
06:49:42,197 --> 06:49:44,397
by the advice that I'm given and how we're trying

4518
06:49:44,397 --> 06:49:46,367
to proceed. Okay Thank you.

4519
06:49:56,066 --> 06:49:59,046
Okay, so we're on the referral as amended. Any other

4520
06:49:59,046 --> 06:50:08,848
speakers to that. Council Trump

4521
06:50:08,848 --> 06:50:14,979
Salt to the referral as amended. No. Okay let me

4522
06:50:14,979 --> 06:50:17,899
start by sort of a point of procedure And that

4523
06:50:17,899 --> 06:50:21,659
is Let's not overblow What the effect of the previous

4524
06:50:21,699 --> 06:50:24,951
discussion that we had at Council. Uh... Last year when

4525
06:50:24,972 --> 06:50:27,591
I brought Ford Uhr that request for a staff report.

4526
06:50:28,612 --> 06:50:30,831
All Council voted on was rejecting the request for the

4527
06:50:30,871 --> 06:50:33,871
staff report Council did not vote on any of the

4528
06:50:33,871 --> 06:50:37,791
substantive matters that could have been contained therein with respect

4529
06:50:37,831 --> 06:50:40,351
to the process for the selection of the Deputy Mayor

4530
06:50:40,932 --> 06:50:43,311
The only decided matter of Council was there was a

4531
06:50:43,351 --> 06:50:45,391
request for a further staff report and that was voted

4532
06:50:45,431 --> 06:50:48,753
down. So I think it would be open to Council

4533
06:50:48,753 --> 06:50:51,393
members And I'm willing to vote for this if it's

4534
06:50:51,494 --> 06:50:55,073
if it's clear that Council members coming into this meeting

4535
06:50:55,414 --> 06:50:57,633
I'd rather it be an SP - PC meeting But

4536
06:50:57,734 --> 06:51:01,153
if it's a Council meeting That's okay too But that

4537
06:51:01,254 --> 06:51:03,553
there's not going to be a decided matter of Council

4538
06:51:04,294 --> 06:51:07,473
now or today or with respect to that last thing

4539
06:51:07,473 --> 06:51:10,673
we did That is going to cut Councillors off from

4540
06:51:10,774 --> 06:51:14,513
being able to make other ways of looking at this

4541
06:51:14,534 --> 06:51:17,233
Why are we afraid of looking at other options? I

4542
06:51:17,233 --> 06:51:22,033
don't understand it It's so like we're so set and

4543
06:51:22,033 --> 06:51:24,833
just keeping the status quo with minor tweaks And again

4544
06:51:25,334 --> 06:51:29,153
this goes to the inability of the public to be

4545
06:51:29,153 --> 06:51:32,033
able to actually weigh in to how we're running this

4546
06:51:33,094 --> 06:51:35,473
allegedly well - run city And I just think we're

4547
06:51:35,473 --> 06:51:37,233
going to be a much better well - run city

4548
06:51:37,574 --> 06:51:41,236
if we allow people clear. Chance to be able to

4549
06:51:41,377 --> 06:51:44,476
come to a committee meeting Where they can actually delegate

4550
06:51:45,137 --> 06:51:47,648
and say what they want to say. Now if they

4551
06:51:47,688 --> 06:51:50,208
can't come and delegate they can add a Council meeting

4552
06:51:50,248 --> 06:51:54,368
they can at least submit a letter But why are

4553
06:51:54,368 --> 06:51:57,808
we not giving the public the opportunity to weigh in

4554
06:51:57,848 --> 06:51:59,568
on this? And yes, it's the end of the Council

4555
06:51:59,608 --> 06:52:03,148
term. But all the more reason why we want people

4556
06:52:03,148 --> 06:52:05,548
to be engaged I don't want to send yet another

4557
06:52:05,729 --> 06:52:10,702
signal. To the public. That we're precluding Uh, uh, public

4558
06:52:10,803 --> 06:52:14,817
participation because it's convenient. We shouldn't do that. We should

4559
06:52:14,857 --> 06:52:17,457
be going out of our way to give the public

4560
06:52:17,558 --> 06:52:20,337
the opportunity to come to a meeting And if the

4561
06:52:20,337 --> 06:52:23,617
NSP - PC meeting that's scheduled And this is on

4562
06:52:23,657 --> 06:52:27,792
the agenda It shouldn't be cancelled. And I'll leave it

4563
06:52:27,813 --> 06:52:30,752
at that I'm still very confused about the effect of

4564
06:52:30,792 --> 06:52:33,072
the motion that's on the floor right now in terms

4565
06:52:33,072 --> 06:52:38,192
of everything I've just said Maybe that maybe the American

4566
06:52:38,293 --> 06:52:42,432
explain that But my main goal tonight is to keep

4567
06:52:42,533 --> 06:52:45,872
open the opportunity for members of this Council and members

4568
06:52:45,872 --> 06:52:50,768
of the public to weigh in on this question. And

4569
06:52:50,808 --> 06:52:53,168
I guess maybe that's a question to the mayor or

4570
06:52:53,189 --> 06:52:57,791
the clerk. I don't know. Solicitor.

4571
06:53:08,369 --> 06:53:11,468
So if it is referred to the Council meeting and

4572
06:53:11,468 --> 06:53:14,188
the regular process for communications of the Council Meeting would

4573
06:53:14,228 --> 06:53:18,110
exist. If someone writes a letter to an SVPC meeting

4574
06:53:19,011 --> 06:53:21,310
and has a discussion there that would land at the

4575
06:53:21,310 --> 06:53:25,950
same Council meeting Uh, if councillors brought notice of motions

4576
06:53:27,091 --> 06:53:29,310
or road letters about amendments to the By - Lat

4577
06:53:29,331 --> 06:53:31,470
They intend to do at that meeting Like those are

4578
06:53:31,470 --> 06:53:35,770
all options before you Um. The only option I don't

4579
06:53:35,810 --> 06:53:38,650
have at this moment is undoing the vote that was

4580
06:53:38,690 --> 06:53:43,397
just done. Um, about the meeting where this is going

4581
06:53:43,397 --> 06:53:50,850
to land to if the referral passes. I appreciate that

4582
06:53:51,191 --> 06:53:53,970
response It does leave me just as confused as I

4583
06:53:53,970 --> 06:53:58,930
was when I started But that's my fault And I

4584
06:53:59,111 --> 06:54:03,455
want to hear what other people think. I'm hesitant to

4585
06:54:03,455 --> 06:54:04,775
sit down because then I'm done But I'm going to

4586
06:54:04,775 --> 06:54:09,848
sit down. Okay Councillor Hopkins go ahead Yeah, thank you

4587
06:54:10,529 --> 06:54:14,382
And I do have a question not sure. Uh... Who

4588
06:54:14,643 --> 06:54:21,990
can respond to it? But if this amendment. Is not

4589
06:54:22,091 --> 06:54:29,779
supported What happens next? So it's a referral. If it's

4590
06:54:29,779 --> 06:54:32,379
not supported We would continue with the second reading of

4591
06:54:32,379 --> 06:54:37,728
the bylaw. That's before us. Thank You for that clarification

4592
06:54:38,149 --> 06:54:47,736
And I'll be supporting it. Other comments. Councillor Stevenson.

4593
06:54:49,687 --> 06:54:52,306
Uh Just a couple of things One is I heard

4594
06:54:52,306 --> 06:54:55,026
that there was no items on the next SPPC So

4595
06:54:55,026 --> 06:54:57,026
I just sent an email because I did have something

4596
06:54:57,127 --> 06:55:00,546
that I'd sent to ICSC That was... I was told

4597
06:55:00,807 --> 06:55:03,986
should be SPPC It doesn't seem to be there So

4598
06:55:03,986 --> 06:55:06,786
I'm going to get that done tonight The other Just

4599
06:55:06,786 --> 06:55:12,146
a question If the bill Just say this referral fails

4600
06:55:12,327 --> 06:55:14,146
And then we vote on the bill and it passes

4601
06:55:14,967 --> 06:55:17,906
Is it considered a decided matter of Council such that

4602
06:55:18,727 --> 06:55:24,719
Uh... The these potential changes can't be brought forward. So

4603
06:55:26,020 --> 06:55:27,893
that By - a - law would be passed. Um...

4604
06:55:28,714 --> 06:55:32,326
Like many by - laws. Uh... You can amend bylaws.

4605
06:55:33,102 --> 06:55:36,813
After their past. And so I guess it would depend

4606
06:55:36,853 --> 06:55:42,418
on... It would depend on Well, give me one. I

4607
06:55:42,458 --> 06:55:43,938
Just want to know if it needs a two -

4608
06:55:43,938 --> 06:55:45,618
thirds majority or just a simple majority.

4609
06:55:56,139 --> 06:55:58,118
So you don't need two - thirds Majority to amend

4610
06:55:58,158 --> 06:56:00,518
an existing existing bylaw You can amend the bylaw Like

4611
06:56:00,558 --> 06:56:03,158
so you can change a bylaw And that's the regular

4612
06:56:03,339 --> 06:56:05,478
same process Okay Thank you I'm going to be supporting

4613
06:56:05,518 --> 06:56:14,381
the referral But I appreciate the clarity. Okay Anyone else

4614
06:56:15,042 --> 06:56:18,743
on the referral. Okay let's open that for voting.

4615
06:56:42,186 --> 06:56:46,485
Noting Councillor McAllister Uh... is no longer present Closing the

4616
06:56:46,525 --> 06:56:51,591
vote Motion carries 11 - 1. I just want to

4617
06:56:51,591 --> 06:56:55,667
say Thank you Encire That took so long. Hey Wiz

4618
06:56:55,707 --> 06:56:57,747
Relight It's the first rare referral of a by -

4619
06:56:57,747 --> 06:56:59,347
law It's just not a quick process So okay So

4620
06:56:59,387 --> 06:57:00,627
we don't have to do any more readings on that

4621
06:57:00,888 --> 06:57:02,787
Because it's been referred So we're going to go to

4622
06:57:02,968 --> 06:57:04,387
the next By - law on the list.

4623
06:57:20,805 --> 06:57:22,624
Okay We're going to do in the dearness Bylaws now

4624
06:57:22,645 --> 06:57:27,664
There's two of them Uh 305 And 324 So move

4625
06:57:27,765 --> 06:57:29,984
to 2nd First Reading for voting.

4626
06:57:43,979 --> 06:57:49,687
Carries 9 - 2. Second reading Any discussion. Okay C9

4627
06:57:49,727 --> 06:57:50,407
will open that for voting.

4628
06:58:17,717 --> 06:58:18,816
Council Pelosa.

4629
06:58:28,362 --> 06:58:36,465
Council McAllister. Elfo Yes. AD - reading of the items

4630
06:58:36,465 --> 06:58:41,485
referring to the Dearness Addresses Okay. Yes. Closing the vote

4631
06:58:41,525 --> 06:58:46,098
Motion carries 10 to 2. Okay. Greeting Will open that

4632
06:58:46,138 --> 06:58:55,944
for voting. Otian

4633
06:58:55,984 --> 06:59:05,794
Carries 10 - 2. Okay Bill 308 Um... And

4634
06:59:05,794 --> 06:59:07,794
Councillor Hopkins asked for this to be both So we'll

4635
06:59:07,895 --> 06:59:08,834
do First reading on that.

4636
06:59:24,151 --> 06:59:25,970
S Okay We're doing 308 now because we didn't do

4637
06:59:25,970 --> 06:59:28,799
it yet So we'll do it. We're doing it now.

4638
06:59:38,015 --> 06:59:47,549
Council McD. S carries 12 - 0. Okay and

4639
06:59:48,130 --> 06:59:50,731
second reading of this Any discussion. Seeing none will open

4640
06:59:50,771 --> 06:59:51,211
that for voting.

4641
07:00:01,676 --> 07:00:07,246
Otian Carries 12 - 0. Um. Third reading on this

4642
07:00:07,246 --> 07:00:08,206
By - we'll open that for voting.

4643
07:00:17,978 --> 07:00:22,960
Council Prebel Councillor Trosso. Carries 12 - 0.

4644
07:00:29,184 --> 07:00:33,114
Okay now it's everything remaining. We'll open First Reading for

4645
07:00:33,114 --> 07:00:41,535
voting. Carries 12 - 0.

4646
07:00:43,231 --> 07:00:47,410
And second reading of these items. Any. Okay. Sign 9

4647
07:00:47,431 --> 07:00:48,130
will open that for voting.

4648
07:00:58,134 --> 07:01:03,389
Carries 12 - 0. Third reading We'll open that for

4649
07:01:03,429 --> 07:01:13,322
voting. Otian CARES 120.

4650
07:01:19,719 --> 07:01:21,938
Okay that's it for Bylaws So it's just a motion

4651
07:01:21,959 --> 07:01:24,018
to adjourn I'll look for a motion to John Council

4652
07:01:24,058 --> 07:01:26,178
McAllister Second divide Council Cuddy We'll do that by hand

4653
07:01:26,919 --> 07:01:30,598
All those in favor. Okay We're Djourn Thank you.