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According in progress.

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Good evening. We are convened as level in city council study session. We begin our meetings with the Pledge of Allegiance. All us all who are able to please stand.

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Thank you. If we could have Lindsey, if we could have an attendance report out, Madam Mayor, there are seven members present. All right. Thank you very much. We move on to our only proclamation of the evening. Native American Heritage Month, Councillor McFaul will read the proclamation.

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receiving. We have Caitlin Lynn, Andrea Judy, Kathy, Arietta, and I'm sure others

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Kathy. I'm, yeah, welcome. Go ahead, Councillor McFarlane. See, a level of

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proclamation. Whereas the month of November is designated as Native American

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Heritage Month and was formalized in 1990 during the Bush presidency. Yep, got

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that one. See, now you made me lose my spot.

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November is a time to distinguish

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which honor and applaud the distinct customs, backgrounds,

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and languages of the original people

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inhabiting our country.

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And whereas North America has been inhabited

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since the ice age by numerous indigenous

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and native peoples.

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Present day level and was home to various tribes,

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including the Arapaho and the Cheyenne,

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who shaped this as a habitable and productive area

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through Native American contributions and culture.

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Yet the indigenous peoples were either killed or forced out

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by US soldiers and new colonists.

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48 present-day tribal nations in Colorado have ancestral connections with the Navajo

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tribe increasing in number the fastest and whereas the United States Census Bureau approximates

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the Native American population in the United States to be greater than 6.7 million people

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at 2.09%.

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Locally a level in Native American population constitutes greater than 928 or 0.8% and whereas

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as Indigenous people's civil rights continue to be abused

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and being driven off their lands, facing extermination,

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suffering hundreds of broken treaties,

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and during disregard for tribal leadership,

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lack of access to vote,

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and withstanding prohibition of expression

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of their rich culture and spirituality.

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And whereas the Native Indigenous people's community

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in a level and has shown unyielding courage

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and resolute resilience to address prejudice and discrimination,

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We attempted to amend the suffering of past persecution and breach of trust by raising

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Native American cultures and voices.

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Now therefore, we, the City Council of Lebanon, do hear Rybuk claim November, 2024, as

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Native American Heritage Month.

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In the City of Lebanon, the NASS residents to rebuke hate based on race or ethnicity and honor

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the achievements of Native and Indigenous Peoples community, which drive to create a robust,

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less equitable, inclusive, and safe community, and welcome residents to celebrate the contributions of native and indigenous peoples to our lives throughout our city, state, and nation.

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Signed this 12th day of November 2024, Jackie Marsh Mayor.

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We're going

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to get a photo and then we're going to get

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some of the things.

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You're getting a little one in there, but that's one.

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Okay, which is the one that comes down.

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I'm walking in.

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I'm going to do

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the honors of sharing with us, Lynn.

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Welcome.

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Thank you.

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I'm a little nervous because I'm very shy.

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So I'm going to start by reading the land acknowledgment after removing my glasses so I can see because on that age.

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So let's see.

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Heart and Soul of Lovelin acknowledges that the land we gather on today is on the traditional and ancestral homeland of the Arapaho, Cheyenne, Yut and Lakota nations.

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We recognize the indigenous peoples as the original stewards of this land, the water, the plants and animals who have called this place home.

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We pay our respects to them and give thanks to all tribal nations and to the ancestors of this land.

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I

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also want to say I'm grateful that Native American Heritage is being acknowledged and

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recognized here today.

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I grew up in this city.

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My family group has been here for a very long time.

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Our roots are in New Mexico.

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So, we represent those indigenous people who had their heritage stolen from them, where

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it was forced out of us.

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We were forced to assimilate, and yet many of us are reaching back and trying to touch

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base and reclaim the heritage that we lost.

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I have been to my home land, the area that we come from in New Mexico.

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I am grateful that it's still there, that I have the ability to go there.

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I am thankful, I want to acknowledge the work of Jim Tolstrup and the High Plains Environmental Center

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and that they bring an annual powwow to Lovlin.

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I never in my lifetime thought that I would ever see something like that because growing up here

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where I was, it was kind of pushed out, you're not supposed to be native, it's better

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to be Mexican than native and even to be Mexican was not so good here.

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So we've come a long, long way and I'm grateful that we've made these strides.

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I'm grateful that all of these different people who have been part of this nation,

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who have

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being seen, not just as these negatives, not just as rapists and drug dealers and whatnot.

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We bring value to this country.

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So thank you.

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I want to close with one other thing.

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Oh, also, this week is Rock Your Mox Week.

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It was a movement that started in New Mexico by a young woman who's part of a tribe down

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there and I cannot remember.

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but November 15th is Rock Your Mock Day.

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People are encouraged to wear your moccasins.

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Do hashtag Rock Your Mock and rock your mocks

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and show virtual community of those who are touching base

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with or honoring the indigenous people of this land.

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If you don't have moccasins, you're encouraged to wear a teal

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or turquoise colored ribbon.

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All right, one last thing and then I'm out.

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This is a quote from Chief Seattle.

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When you know who you are, when your mission is clear, and when you burn with the inner

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fire of unbreakable will, no cold can touch your heart.

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No deluge can dampen your purpose.

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You know that you are alive.

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And I'm going to tell you, I know that I am alive, and I know that no cold is going to

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bring me down.

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Thank you.

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Thank you Lynn. You may have been nervous, but you did a fantastic job with

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that and thank you heart and soul for all you do every day in our community. You are

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making a difference. So I appreciate all that you do. We'll move on with our study session,

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procedural information. Council will give anyone in the audience a chance to speak to any

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item on the study session after the presentation is given. Only residents of Larimer County,

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persons owning property in Loveland are persons with a stated business interest in Loveland

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shall participate in public comment.

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Public comment shall not exceed 15 minutes per item.

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We encourage speakers to give public comment in a manner that promotes civil discourse.

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Our first item on our study session 2.1 comes to us from Communication and Engagement Department.

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We have Kim Nicole and Brandon who are going to talk about the 2024 Loveland National Community

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Survey results.

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Welcome.

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Thank you.

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All right, can anyone hear me?

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All right.

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Excellent.

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Well, Madam Mayor,

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Love and City Council,

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I'm Nicole Yoast,

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the City's Communication and Engagement Director.

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And as Mayor mentioned,

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I'm joined by Brandon Barnett.

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He's a Senior Survey Associate

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from Polkow,

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the National Research Center,

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the consultant who does this survey for us.

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And then, of course,

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Kim Overholt,

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she's our Communication and Engagement Manager,

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and she was the lead staff member on this project.

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We are going to try to keep this presentation to 20, 25 minutes before questions.

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So tonight we'll be sharing community feedback that we received in 2024 and we'll also be

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sharing with you some information on how we are going to be using this moving forward.

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Before I pass it over to Brandon, as elected officials for the city, we feel it's important

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that you have the data and information that's reflective of what the community is.

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The city is wanting and how they're raiding our city services, their local government and how they value livability in Loveland. You're going to see a lot of numbers, charts and graphs here tonight. And behind those figures are the people of Loveland sharing how they're feeling about the city, the community, what's important to them as well as their priorities. And as we go through the presentation tonight, I invite you all to look at it with a frame of mind in terms of how can we incorporate this information into city

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decision-making moving forward.

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And getting the information is really the start of the process.

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Whenever we get new community feedback, that is really the start of it all. So for us

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as staff, you know, how we're going to implement this first, city staff, anything that we can

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immediately address, we will. In 2025, we expect to do additional community engagement to help us

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understand or dive deeper into some of the topics that we have leadership buy into support moving forward.

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And then throughout 2025 and 2026, of course, we'll be implementing this information into the updated city strategic plan and other city guiding documents.

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And then because this is a biennial survey, we'll go back to the community in 2026 with a chance to have them reflect on what we've done and get their input again.

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So with that, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to Brandon to share our results with you tonight.

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Thank

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you very much for having me, could everybody hear me all right?

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Excellent.

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I'm happy to be here to present a summary of the findings from the Loveland National Community Survey.

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Before I begin on behalf of myself and my Polko co-workers, I'd like to thank Kim Overholt, our primary contact throughout the survey development and implementation process.

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She provided thoughtful and detailed feedback throughout the project.

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I would also like to acknowledge my colleague Grace Arneson, who was Loveland's NCS project manager for this important project.

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A little bit about Polko. Polko's online community engagement polling platform provides

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the information to his local government and other public sector leaders need.

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Now, hundreds of organizations nationwide use Polko for strategic planning, budgeting,

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and empowering resident voices. We make civil-verified community engagement online not only possible,

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but accessible. The National Research Center at Polko gives

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local governments and other public sector organizations the data they need to make more informed

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decisions. Since 1994, we've worked with hundreds of jurisdictions nationwide.

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NRC is best known for our national benchmarking surveys such as the national community survey,

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the national employee survey, and the community assessment survey for older adults among others.

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Our benchmark database is the largest of its kind in the United States. Polco and NRC merged

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in 2019 to more effectively serve local government and project resident voices. We are also

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exclusive partners with the International City County Managers Association and the National League of

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And we work closely with engaged local government leaders, the Alliance for Innovation and many academic partners, including the American Association for Public Opinion Research, the University of Wisconsin at Madison, the Hoover Institute at Stanford University and the Harvard Kennedy School of Government.

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Before we dive into the results, I want to emphasize that there are a variety of ways these results can be used.

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Most commonly, during jurisdictions we work with, use their survey data to monitor trends

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and resident opinion over time to measure government performance and ratings of public

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trust and to inform budgeting processes and strategic plans.

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Our results also allow you to benchmark your community's specific characteristics and services

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against those same characteristics within other communities in our benchmark database.

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Our hope is that as these findings are presented, it will spur ideas for you in what could be

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done with these results or where you might want to dig deeper.

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The

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National Community Survey, or the NCS, is a standardized five-page comprehensive survey

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that allows municipalities to assess resident opinion about their community and local government.

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The NCS focuses on the livability of Lovelin by categorizing survey questions in 10 main

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facets of community livability as shown here.

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These facets have been identified through extensive survey researches, those that are most impactful

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to residents' quality of life.

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The NCS includes items within each of these ten facets to provide a full picture of how residents feel about their community.

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Finally, these facets also tend to align with municipal departments, making it easy for city staff to quickly find the information that is of the most importance to them in the final report of results.

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This was the second time conducting the NCS for Loveland. All households within Loveland were eligible to participate in the survey.

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a list of all households within the zip code serving

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loved one was purchased based on updated listings

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from the United States Postal Service.

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Using GIS boundary files provided by the city,

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address is located outside of loved one's boundaries

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were removed from the list of potential households to survey.

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From the list of eligible households,

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4,000 addresses were randomly selected to receive the survey.

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The 4,000 randomly selected households

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received mailings beginning on July 24th, 2024,

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and data collection for the survey

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remained open for six weeks.

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The first mailing was a postcard inviting the household to participate in the survey.

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The next mailing contained a cover letter with instructions, the survey questionnaire

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and a posted paid return envelope.

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Both mailings included a web link to give residents the opportunity to respond to the survey

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online, as well as a QR code further and encourage participation.

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The follow-up mailing asked those who had not completed the survey to do so and those who

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had already done so to refrain from completing the survey again.

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The survey was available in English and Spanish and all mailings contained paragraphs in both languages instructing participants on how to complete the survey in their preferred language.

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A total of 622 completed surveys were received from these efforts, providing a response rate of 16% and a margin of error plus or minus 4 percentage points.

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We then compared the demographic profile of survey respondents to that of adults in Lovland using the most recent census and American community survey data and weighted the survey results.

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Waiting is a survey research best practice and helps to improve the

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representiveness of your community. In addition to the randomly selected

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probability sample of households, a link to an online community-wide open

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participation survey was publicized by Lovelin. The open participation survey was

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open to all residents and became available on August 5th, 2024. The survey remained

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open for four weeks and 914 responses were received. This presentation and the

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report are based on the 612 responses from the random sample mail-based survey.

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The responses to the open participation survey are provided separately in the full report.

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And this slide will skip over it for now.

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If you have any questions, we wanted to include a history of participation since the city of

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Loveland has been offering a community survey, so we've been doing that since 2006, but just

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to give you some perspective as far as what our numbers this year look like comparatively

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over the years.

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One

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of the advantages to a local government of participating in our community surveys is

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the opportunity to compare ratings given by your residents to those from a communities

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across the nation.

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NRC was the first organization to conceive of the idea to create benchmarks of public opinion.

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This allows jurisdictions to compare ratings of services to ratings of similar services

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from other communities.

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There are currently about 500 communities in our database.

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Levelin received comparisons to the entire benchmark database, which I will be referring

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to as the national benchmarks, but also opted to receive a custom benchmark comparison

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to a subset of communities with similar characteristics in Colorado and surrounding

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states.

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We'll now move into an overview of the survey results.

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In the survey, we have two questions that asked directly about those ten facets of community

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livability that we touched on earlier.

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The first asked residents to rate the quality of each, and you can see the resulting comparison

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to the national benchmark in the shading on the chart.

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The second question asks about those same facets of livability, but is centered on how important

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residents think it is for the community to focus on each

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facet in the coming two years.

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So we ask about both the quality and the importance of each

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of these facets, and we use those answers to create the

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quality importance matrix, which we'll see on the next slide.

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We use this chart, which is also included in the report,

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to help determine which areas are relatively

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higher importance and lower quality to residents.

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This chart is one of many ways to interpret your data and can

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be used to identify key findings and help a community

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determine which areas may need additional focus or resource

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course allocation in the coming years, and which others are performing well by comparison.

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Of the 123 items for which residents provided a value of ratings, seven received ratings

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higher than the national benchmark, 102 received similar ratings and 14 received lower ratings.

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Ratings are considered similar if they are within 10 points of the national average and higher

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or lower if they are more than 10 points different from the average.

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Items, a few items that scored higher than the national benchmarks were affordable high-speed

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Internet access, community support for the arts,

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Levelin open space, drinking water, and opportunities to attend cultural arts or music activities.

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A few that scored lower were air quality, overall economic health,

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K-12 education, traffic enforcement, and crime prevention.

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Levelin also elected to compare their results to a custom subset of communities with similar

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characteristics in Colorado and surrounding states.

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Of the 123 survey items for which residents provided a value of ratings,

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9 received higher ratings, two of which were actually much higher, 107 received similar

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ratings and 7 received lower ratings.

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The much higher items were community sport for the arts and yard waste pickup, higher

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were water resources available affordable high speed internet access and opportunities to

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attend cultural arts and music festivals, a few of the lower were traffic enforcement, feeling

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safe in lovedlands downtown commercial area during the day and code enforcement.

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When

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compared to results from loved ones NCS in 2022, in 2024, 14 received ratings that

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were statistically significantly higher than the previous survey iteration, 79 received

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similar ratings and 33 received lower ratings. A few of the increases were affordable high-speed

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internet access, city police services, what impact if any do you think the economy will

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have on your family income in the next six months, adult educational opportunities and opportunities

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to attend cultural arts and music activities.

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A few of the decreases were air quality,

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overall economic health, public information services,

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employment opportunities and economic development.

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Moving now in the highlights of our findings,

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I do want to point a few items

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that stood out to us as survey researchers.

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There's a lot of additional data in the full report

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that we won't cover today,

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but today's presentation will focus on a few areas

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that we found to be most noteworthy

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within Loveland's survey results.

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Go through some of the highest performing areas.

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Early 8 and 10 residents celebrated Loveland as a place to live and the overall quality

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of life received high praise, reflecting strong satisfaction. Around 80% of residents indicated

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they were very likely to remain in Loveland for the next five years. About two-thirds

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of residents expressed a positive view of the city's overall image or reputation. Approximately

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8 and 10 residents recommended living in Loveland to someone who asks, reinforcing its status

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as a highly desirable community.

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There are these consistently high ratings,

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closely matched national benchmarks,

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affirming loved ones' exceptional performance

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and quality of life.

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Around six and 10 residents commended the overall design

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or layout of residential and commercial areas,

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underscoring the city's well-regarded community planning.

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Public places where people want to spend time

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were applauded by two thirds of residents,

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indicating loved ones' success and creating inviting spaces.

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The variety of housing options

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and press seven and 10 community members,

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emphasizing the city's ability to meet diverse housing needs.

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Well-planned residential growth and well-planned commercial growth received positive feedback

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from four in 10 respondents, reflecting a solid approach to community development.

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About seven in 10 residents praised the overall quality of loved ones' utility infrastructure,

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reflecting strong satisfaction among the community.

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Nearly eight in 10 respondents expressed high satisfaction with the city's drinking water

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and sewer services showcasing loved ones' success in these essential utilities.

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Power services from Leblon Water and Power were well received with 8 and 10 residents offering favorable ratings, highlighting reliable performance.

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Stormwater management earned approval from roughly 8 and 10 community members, reinforcing consistent excellence in this area since 2022.

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Affordable high-speed internet access was positively rated by 73% of residents scoring higher than national average.

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Early

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7-10 residents lauded the overall opportunities for education, culture, and the arts,

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underscoring Lovelins commitment to enriching its community.

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Lovelins' art scenes received high praise with about 8-10 residents applauding the community's support for the arts.

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Around 7-10 residents celebrated the opportunities of cultural arts and music events,

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indicating growing enthusiasm for the city's cultural offerings.

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The city public library services remained a standout with approximately 8-10 residents

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giving high marks to Lovelin's well-regarded library system.

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Nearly seven in ten residents praise the opportunities to attend special events and

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festivals, reinforcing Lovelin's strong cultural and community engagement.

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About seven in ten residents applauded Lovelin as an ideal place to raise children, while

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roughly six in ten positively rated the city as a place to retire, maintaining strong approval

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in these key areas.

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Nearly two-thirds of respondents expressed a sense of civic community pride, highlighting

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a solid sense of belonging and civic engagement.

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Roughly 7-10 residents praise the vibrant opportunities to participate in social events

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and activities, about 8-7-10 residents rated opportunities to volunteer as excellent

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showcasing level and spirit of civic involvement.

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Voter engagement reached a peak with 85% of residents participating in the most recent local

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election reflecting a strong commitment to the community matters and scoring above the national

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average.

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Moving to some of the lower performing areas.

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Fewer than half of residents regarded the overall economic health of Leblanc favorably,

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a rating that declined from previous years and saw downward trend international standards.

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Only around three and ten residents expressed approval for the employment opportunities

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in Leblanc.

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Just two and ten residents acknowledge the cost of living in Leblanc as satisfactory, highlighting

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concerns about a-

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Portability in the area. Less than half of the population gave positive feedback on Lovelin's economic development initiatives, indicating a noticeable drop from prior years. Roughly 7-10 residents viewed the quality of business and service establishments in Lovelin with approval.

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Less than half of residents appreciated Lovelin's government for being open and transparent to the public, marking a decline in satisfaction since the last survey. Looking about 4-10 residents felt that Lovelin's government acted in the community's best interests, a rating that fell from previously.

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years. Confidence in the local government was endorsed by fewer than four

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in ten residents signalling a significant decrease when compared to

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national benchmarks. Fewer than four in ten residents offered positive feedback

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regarding the government's communication about community issues, showing a drop

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in satisfaction. While just over half of residents supported the general direction

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of loved ones government, which reflected a slight dip from earlier surveys.

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About seven in ten residents praised the quality of animal control services,

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emergency preparedness services receive positive ratings from roughly six

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in ten residents. Despite scoring lower than national average, city police

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services increased from 52% in 2022 to 63% in 2024. Similarly, crime

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prevention saw an increase of six percentage points from 2022, although still

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below national averages.

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Only about three in ten residents recognize the availability

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of affordable quality mental health care, reflecting concerns about the

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the accessibility of these services.

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Fewer than four in 10 residents rated the availability

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of affordable quality food positively,

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indicating dissatisfaction with food affordability

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within the community.

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Roughly two thirds of residents acknowledge

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the availability of affordable quality healthcare.

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Preventive health services were viewed positively

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by about six in 10 residents,

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but fewer than two in 10 residents

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appreciated the availability of affordable quality housing,

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highlighting persistent concerns about cost

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and accessibility.

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We'll now move into some of the additional special topics asked on

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level and survey.

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When asked to rate their agreement or disagreement with the following

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statements about the city, residents top three responses are trusting their local

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fire department, trusting the city to effectively maintain roads, parks and public

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spaces, and trusting the city to effectively manage my utilities.

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This is a quick comparison from 2022 and 2024 on this topic so we can quickly see

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the growth and change.

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Police saw the biggest increase in feelings of trust since 2022, rising from 59% to 73%,

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while trust in the city effectively managing utilities saw a slight decrease.

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When asked about managing projected budget deficits, community members' top responses were

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using a combination of tax increases and reduced service delivery and infrastructure spending,

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maintaining current tax levels and reducing service delivery and infrastructure spending,

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and increasing taxes in order to maintain current service delivery.

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When I have to indicate which of the following is used as sources of information about the city.

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Survey respondents, top three responses were the city website,

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newsletter in the utility bill, and local news as their top three sources of information.

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When I have to indicate the importance of each of the following for their local community to implement to help address homelessness,

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providing access to health care, behavioral health and substance abuse treatment was the top rated response with about 75% of respondents considering this option as essential or very important.

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When compared to 2022, concerns about homelessness have lessened in a few areas.

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Creating affordable, permanent housing, providing access to health care, behavioral health and substance abuse treatment, and continuing to help fund organizations that provide services to people experience.

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experience homelessness in our community, all decreased by at least 10 percentage points in ratings of essential or very important.

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The open participation responses provided separately in the report are statistically weighted.

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More positive items were participation related, were participation related, which is expected for a non-probability self-selection survey.

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A few of those were visiting social media sites attending a local public meeting or watching a local public meeting.

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A few that were more negative were the overall image or reputation, bus or transit services,

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city police services, crime prevention, trust in local police department and less support

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to maintain current tax levels and reduce service delivery and infrastructure spending.

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It should be noted that most ratings between the two were similar and that it was only the

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six items that were more negative and three items that were more positive between the two

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data sets.

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In summary, the highest performing areas were utilities, parks and recreation, natural

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environment and health and wellness.

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The potential focus areas are the local economy, affordability, safety and governance.

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So now that we have this information, what do we do with it?

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What's next?

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I alluded to this a little bit at the beginning, but we're just at the beginning.

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Now that we have this data and this information, it's time for us to decide how we are going

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to look at this information, where we need to investigate a little bit deeper in order

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to truly understand community sentiment.

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But for us, the next steps here is that we will be sharing survey results with the community.

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So tomorrow, we will be sharing, obviously it was in the council pack, but we'll be officially

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sharing this on our community survey webpage and we'll be sharing it out through city channels.

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This will also be shared in the December City update so that it can reach all residents

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as we had intended.

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And then really focusing on long-term alignment.

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How can we use this information for larger efforts

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like strategic planning, performance measurement, budget,

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just to like Brandon mentioned.

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A media action is already taking place with staff.

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We're taking a look at some of the comments

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and some of the things that this survey told us

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that maybe they also told us in 2022

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that we've already started to move the needle on.

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and then based on feedback from leadership,

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I know our city manager coming on board,

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we'll be working very closely with him

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on how to use this information,

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but also for you as elected officials,

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what are gonna be those focus areas for us in the new year,

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and how can our team, what additional community engagement,

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whether it's going back through the POCO platform

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00:36:50,420 --> 00:36:53,040
to go back to these survey takers,

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doing council town halls, community listening sessions,

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Where are the topics that we want to prioritize as a community, and where do we have leadership

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buy-in in order for us to move the needle?

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And our team is ready and able and willing to make that a priority in 2025 in terms of

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when we have that leadership buy-in, how can we help dive deeper into some of those areas,

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especially when you look at some of the lower performing areas.

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An example I'll give you is, you know, with the economy, I think there's a lot of different

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things that maybe could have given us those results, how could we dive deeper and better understand

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community sentiment in order to understand where we have to move that. And then keeping the

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community informed, one of the things that we haven't done well, as well as I think we all want to,

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00:37:42,260 --> 00:37:48,060
that we are committed to doing again this year, is as we are making change and as we are taking

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this feedback and making positive change in these areas, doing a better job of reporting back out

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to the community to make sure that they know that we heard them, that we're listening,

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and that we've taken this into consideration, so those are, as far as next steps goes,

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what we wanted to share with you today, and so we're ready for any questions or any larger

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guidance that Council might have for us in terms of the direction of this feedback.

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All right, well thank you all three, I think Councillor Olson, you were the first light I saw.

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Thank you. Appreciate the presentation. First, a couple of concerns about the survey. There's

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a couple of things that suggest that the survey might be a little skewed. One is 85 percent

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00:38:35,580 --> 00:38:40,660
of the people said they voted. In our last election, less than 50 percent of the people

458
00:38:40,660 --> 00:38:50,820
that are eligible voted. So to me, it's a pretty big gap from 85 to less than 50.

459
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,800
Secondly, an attachment to about page six since the pages were numbered.

460
00:38:56,580 --> 00:39:03,480
It addresses the age and the sex. Over 74% of the respondents were over 55.

461
00:39:04,860 --> 00:39:09,760
Now, I could be wrong. I don't think the distribution of the population on level

462
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:15,820
and that 74% of our population is over 55 could be wrong.

463
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:24,380
So I don't know how we balance that, but it seems to me that we missed a significant

464
00:39:24,380 --> 00:39:25,980
segment of our population.

465
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,900
And then going back to kind of your remarks, Nicole, what do we do from here?

466
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:39,660
Part of it is, I think we look at what can we change, what should we change in our

467
00:39:39,660 --> 00:39:48,020
city, our city operations, our city council, whatever, what can we do to, for a council

468
00:39:48,020 --> 00:39:56,240
standpoint, improve our image. But also, as I read through the comments, there's a lot

469
00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:03,660
of misinformation in those comments. And so some of it, like we did with Brian, did his

470
00:40:03,660 --> 00:40:08,760
road show with the budget. We may need to do a better job of getting out information

471
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:15,320
to address some of those issues that the citizens are concerned about.

472
00:40:16,060 --> 00:40:19,180
And lastly, I think people are busy.

473
00:40:22,140 --> 00:40:24,900
There's, in my mind, a certain amount of apathy.

474
00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:28,700
And maybe it's just because people are so busy.

475
00:40:29,180 --> 00:40:31,420
They've got so many irons in the fire doing so many things.

476
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,840
But how do we engage them?

477
00:40:37,260 --> 00:40:41,020
Because if they're not coming to get the information, how can we get it to them?

478
00:40:41,700 --> 00:40:45,440
And it's got to be more than just a reporter here, there's got to be other avenues.

479
00:40:45,740 --> 00:40:47,800
So again, thank you for the presentation.

480
00:40:49,060 --> 00:40:49,500
All right.

481
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:50,720
Thank you, Councillor Block.

482
00:40:51,580 --> 00:40:52,480
Thank you Madam Mayor.

483
00:40:52,660 --> 00:40:53,660
Thanks for the presentation.

484
00:40:53,800 --> 00:41:00,020
I was eagerly awaiting this and I scoured through a couple of years before and the ones

485
00:41:00,020 --> 00:41:00,440
before.

486
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:06,620
So I've been tracking this to I have a couple of questions so the public

487
00:41:06,620 --> 00:41:14,380
participation was that it's lowest level than it's ever been do you have

488
00:41:14,380 --> 00:41:21,560
thoughts on that on why that might be in terms of the response rate correct it's

489
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:27,040
it isn't ongoing challenge for us especially as survey researchers the reason

490
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:32,220
Even what we're actually looking to get towards is the total number of responses, rather than

491
00:41:32,220 --> 00:41:36,520
necessarily the response rate itself, response rate can be a little bit of a misleading statistic.

492
00:41:37,100 --> 00:41:42,880
But as we know that residents are becoming increasingly disengaged and it's harder to find

493
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,400
them where they are specifically because, quite frankly, most of them are not in their physical

494
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:48,200
mailbox anymore.

495
00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:54,140
It does become a challenge and that's why we have increased that sample size with each iteration

496
00:41:54,140 --> 00:41:59,960
know in order to be able to hit that target of the total number of responses that we're looking for.

497
00:42:01,340 --> 00:42:07,780
So the similar communities to ours are they having the same issues with lower participation

498
00:42:07,780 --> 00:42:12,820
rates in their surveys? Yes. I would say the average right now is about 12 to 16 percent.

499
00:42:13,300 --> 00:42:18,140
Okay. Thank you. Let's see.

500
00:42:21,010 --> 00:42:24,810
So on page 35 of your presentation, it

501
00:42:26,290 --> 00:42:33,250
Talked about what's essential affordable housing and forcing no camping ordinances, providing access to health care.

502
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:39,790
I'm just curious why wasn't there a question regarding how they felt about a permanent shelter in Lublin?

503
00:42:42,210 --> 00:42:43,370
I can actually answer that one.

504
00:42:44,170 --> 00:42:49,730
So in 2022, the first year that we did this survey, we established several custom questions.

505
00:42:50,270 --> 00:42:56,850
And we worked very closely with Polkow on what, what are the questions that they currently have that could also be benchmarked

506
00:42:56,850 --> 00:43:02,150
marked that are kind of standard from them. So this is the exact same question we used

507
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:09,130
in 2022. So we wanted to make sure for consistency sake that we were in order for us to have

508
00:43:09,130 --> 00:43:16,110
our own benchmark year over year, we chose to keep the question the same as 2022. But yeah,

509
00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:19,830
I don't know if Brandon, if you have anything else to add on that, but just some perspective.

510
00:43:20,170 --> 00:43:25,870
Thank you. And then real quick, so some of the survey information that came back regarding

511
00:43:25,870 --> 00:43:31,030
safety? Is that how safe people feel in

512
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:35,250
Loveland or is it specific to safety

513
00:43:35,250 --> 00:43:38,830
because of trust or lack thereof of the

514
00:43:38,830 --> 00:43:42,590
PD? Can you specify what that meant for me

515
00:43:42,590 --> 00:43:45,950
as far as safety? So that would be a little

516
00:43:45,950 --> 00:43:47,690
bit of both. So we asked one specific

517
00:43:47,690 --> 00:43:50,650
question that is asking about their the

518
00:43:50,650 --> 00:43:53,570
residents feelings of safety and that is in

519
00:43:53,570 --> 00:43:54,930
their neighborhood in the downtown

520
00:43:54,930 --> 00:43:57,470
down commercial area from property crime, violent crime,

521
00:43:57,470 --> 00:43:59,810
and from fire flood or natural disaster.

522
00:44:00,370 --> 00:44:02,710
So that specifically is asking the resident

523
00:44:02,710 --> 00:44:04,410
about their feelings of safety.

524
00:44:04,990 --> 00:44:09,050
The other aspects of that are the resident sentiment

525
00:44:09,050 --> 00:44:11,790
on the quality of safety related services

526
00:44:11,790 --> 00:44:12,950
within the city.

527
00:44:13,470 --> 00:44:15,610
Great, I appreciate the answers.

528
00:44:15,970 --> 00:44:16,270
Thank you.

529
00:44:16,650 --> 00:44:17,630
Councillor McFaul.

530
00:44:19,590 --> 00:44:22,370
First off, like Councillor Wilson said,

531
00:44:22,510 --> 00:44:24,070
thank you very much for bringing in.

532
00:44:24,070 --> 00:44:30,890
And your question on how we use this Nicole and I will tell you from a business standpoint

533
00:44:30,890 --> 00:44:36,730
I'd be reluctant to use a 15% return rate on making a strategic plan in and of itself.

534
00:44:37,470 --> 00:44:40,570
I think some of the questions are there and I think I'd probably have to understand a

535
00:44:40,570 --> 00:44:45,890
little bit better about how the respondents were found.

536
00:44:46,050 --> 00:44:49,710
I mean, was it an even balance across wards throughout the city itself?

537
00:44:49,710 --> 00:44:56,410
I mean, it bothers me when you only have a 15% response rate on any type of survey whatsoever,

538
00:44:56,590 --> 00:44:59,970
especially if you're not sure how it was balanced across and

539
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:11,120
Whether you're getting a response from just one side of the city or another side of the city, or is it equal across the city? So I think understanding that a little bit better might help me look into this as well.

540
00:45:14,060 --> 00:45:32,220
Sure. So if you look in the methods section in the report to the waiting table that was mentioned earlier, what we're looking at is that it was pretty even across the board when it comes to geographic comparisons that the highest was ward two, which had 31% of the response.

541
00:45:32,220 --> 00:45:35,020
where as the lowest was Ward 3 that had 20% of those.

542
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:36,160
Mr. President, was Ward 1?

543
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,300
They're not a very active Ward, unless you piss them off,

544
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:39,000
but go ahead.

545
00:45:39,740 --> 00:45:41,520
Ward 1 had 27%.

546
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:41,740
Okay.

547
00:45:42,380 --> 00:45:44,120
But in that, in that waiting table,

548
00:45:44,220 --> 00:45:47,660
what you'll see is we have the raw responses.

549
00:45:48,220 --> 00:45:50,700
Then we have what we waited those responses to

550
00:45:50,700 --> 00:45:53,320
and then we also have the target weights for each of those.

551
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,140
So the target weights that we're looking at

552
00:45:55,140 --> 00:45:58,040
are what comes from the American Community Survey

553
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:59,920
and the most recent census date.

554
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:05,140
So while, yes, it is true that in the majority of all surveys, the majority of respondents

555
00:46:05,140 --> 00:46:06,300
are older white homeowners.

556
00:46:07,020 --> 00:46:08,060
That's just the case.

557
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:13,060
It is very hard to reach young respondents in these specific surveys because they're

558
00:46:13,060 --> 00:46:14,160
just not as engaged.

559
00:46:14,660 --> 00:46:18,180
Most of them are still renting, likely renting with roommates.

560
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,960
They don't know if their career is going to be in the city that they live in currently.

561
00:46:21,180 --> 00:46:23,720
They don't know if they're going to live in the city that they live in currently within

562
00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:24,060
a year.

563
00:46:24,620 --> 00:46:29,860
So, getting them engaged is one of the hardest parts of our job and really of any kind

564
00:46:29,860 --> 00:46:36,260
community outreach. But with that, while it is, yes, a 16% response rate that's still

565
00:46:36,260 --> 00:46:41,360
over 600 residents that you heard from. And the science behind that, the industry standard

566
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:47,660
is actually 350 responses to get to a 5% point margin of error or be considered to hit that

567
00:46:47,660 --> 00:46:52,760
industry standard. So to get over 600 responses, while yes, the response rate looks low, that

568
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,900
is actually well above average for this. And that's, it's the numbers behind that which allow

569
00:46:56,900 --> 00:47:03,980
provide that four percentage point margin of error, which is essentially if we were to ask all residents within the community, the

570
00:47:03,980 --> 00:47:10,060
response, the final numbers that we would get there would be within four percentage points of the numbers that we have within our report.

571
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:17,620
So the reason we don't do that is because it would be extremely expensive and time consuming and the results would actually become even more

572
00:47:17,620 --> 00:47:25,640
unreliable as you try to get responses from every community member than you would with the current system that we have in place.

573
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:30,840
So what we do is we know there is a known probability for every household that we consider within the sample

574
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:36,440
Which is how we can really use those algorithms to create that margin of error based on the total number of responses

575
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:43,260
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think councilor Foley was he thank you

576
00:47:43,260 --> 00:47:48,840
I looked up in both your lights were on so councilor about 10 seconds. Okay, councilor Foley

577
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,100
Thank you

578
00:47:50,940 --> 00:47:53,640
Can you remind me what the cost was of this survey?

579
00:47:57,500 --> 00:47:58,020
Yes?

580
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:07,520
So, we, so for the survey every two years, plus our ongoing access to the Polko platform,

581
00:48:07,540 --> 00:48:10,580
which allows us to do this survey, plus additional survey.

582
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,420
So for example, the police survey was used through the Polko platform.

583
00:48:14,860 --> 00:48:24,140
It's about 26,000 over two years for this survey and the access to the Polko platform for

584
00:48:24,140 --> 00:48:25,020
additional surveys.

585
00:48:26,060 --> 00:48:28,700
And the number of responses again was how much?

586
00:48:34,330 --> 00:48:38,090
The number of responses to the random sample was 612,

587
00:48:38,330 --> 00:48:41,850
to the open participation was over 900.

588
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:44,730
All right, Councillor Light Kovac.

589
00:48:45,370 --> 00:48:49,130
Thank you so much. And thank you everyone for presenting these numbers

590
00:48:49,130 --> 00:48:53,510
and for conducting this analysis for us and breaking it down into manageable bits.

591
00:48:53,710 --> 00:48:56,710
I don't have a question for you. This is more addressing my fellow Councillors.

592
00:48:56,710 --> 00:49:02,330
I think this data is extremely helpful for us and my hope is when we get our new city

593
00:49:02,330 --> 00:49:07,970
manager seated that we would have a council retreat sooner rather than later and that

594
00:49:07,970 --> 00:49:13,470
as a council we could look at what is our strategic and policy goals as a governing body for

595
00:49:13,470 --> 00:49:18,590
the upcoming year and we can use this data to help inform that discussion of what we as

596
00:49:18,590 --> 00:49:20,630
a council would like to focus on.

597
00:49:20,750 --> 00:49:23,410
So I just wanted to plant that seed for all of you.

598
00:49:23,710 --> 00:49:24,170
Thank you.

599
00:49:24,750 --> 00:49:25,430
All right.

600
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:30,850
Thank you, and I also thank you and also all the people that chose to respond, the people

601
00:49:30,850 --> 00:49:31,910
that took the survey.

602
00:49:32,510 --> 00:49:36,210
I don't think there was anything particularly surprising, and that's probably because

603
00:49:36,210 --> 00:49:38,990
I have been watching the surveys in the past.

604
00:49:39,970 --> 00:49:46,010
One thing that kind of stands out is communication with the communities, so they understand some

605
00:49:46,010 --> 00:49:47,290
of the competing interests.

606
00:49:47,490 --> 00:49:53,130
There were a lot of comments about too much development, and yet the way to get to affordable housing

607
00:49:53,130 --> 00:49:56,290
is you have more units so that prices come down.

608
00:49:57,110 --> 00:50:00,770
You know, childcare is something that we really haven't tackled yet,

609
00:50:00,890 --> 00:50:04,230
but I was glad to see that it was on your survey that people are asking.

610
00:50:04,830 --> 00:50:06,870
You know, some things are a lot easier to tackle.

611
00:50:07,590 --> 00:50:13,170
And other things are much bigger in long-term and communicating with our residents

612
00:50:13,730 --> 00:50:17,710
about the competition between how do you get to where they want.

613
00:50:18,370 --> 00:50:20,810
And then some things are regional air quality.

614
00:50:20,810 --> 00:50:27,710
that's a regional you know so you know I appreciate the information here and I

615
00:50:27,710 --> 00:50:33,490
I agree with my fellow counselors here to have it guide us but we need to do a

616
00:50:33,490 --> 00:50:37,710
job communicating with the public about you know yeah there's a lot of

617
00:50:37,710 --> 00:50:42,210
development what I was a little bit surprised at is there wasn't more angst about

618
00:50:42,210 --> 00:50:48,410
traffic congestion I was actually surprised that we didn't see more of that in

619
00:50:48,410 --> 00:50:51,150
and this because that's a part of development.

620
00:50:51,650 --> 00:50:54,050
So appreciate the survey and the information.

621
00:50:55,010 --> 00:50:57,830
Councilor Samson is joining us remotely.

622
00:50:59,210 --> 00:51:00,190
Hi, Mayor, thank you.

623
00:51:00,950 --> 00:51:04,890
I did join a little bit late into the presentation.

624
00:51:05,210 --> 00:51:07,670
So I apologize, I didn't get to hear everything.

625
00:51:07,890 --> 00:51:12,450
So my question might or my comment might have already been addressed.

626
00:51:12,450 --> 00:51:13,850
So please have patience with me.

627
00:51:14,370 --> 00:51:16,310
But I did want to say first, thank you.

628
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:18,150
I always find these surveys so interesting.

629
00:51:18,150 --> 00:51:25,650
I also want to say thank you for not, and this probably will come out sarcastic, but it's

630
00:51:25,650 --> 00:51:31,610
not sarcastic. Thank you for managing all the questions and not having a space for council

631
00:51:31,610 --> 00:51:36,330
to put in our own questions. I think the year that that happened, I think it got a little messy

632
00:51:36,330 --> 00:51:39,970
in this way. I think the questions you asked were great. I think you had your finger on the polls

633
00:51:39,970 --> 00:51:44,530
as far as what the community cared about, especially when you look at like these long responses.

634
00:51:44,530 --> 00:51:50,170
is the written responses, it seems like you really tapped into the areas where people are

635
00:51:50,170 --> 00:51:54,750
most passionate and most concerned in the community, so I think he did a good job there and it

636
00:51:54,750 --> 00:51:58,990
was good that Council kept our paws off of it for the most part, so thank you for that.

637
00:52:00,090 --> 00:52:04,630
And I did also want to say, and I know Nicole, you and I talked about this about having the

638
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:11,010
login, and this is maybe something that you already addressed, but I think there were a couple

639
00:52:11,010 --> 00:52:15,230
responses in the long answers to and then I personally experienced where you know you go in and do

640
00:52:15,230 --> 00:52:19,050
the survey and then you had to create an account. I think it's very cool it was toward the end

641
00:52:19,050 --> 00:52:23,150
or something and I had wished that it had been a front that you would have had to create an account

642
00:52:23,150 --> 00:52:28,550
and there's other people in here that I think agreed with that that they people were wishing that there

643
00:52:28,550 --> 00:52:33,210
wasn't a requirement for login information. Now I understand that a login means that you would have

644
00:52:33,210 --> 00:52:39,470
the unique identifier so then you can't just submit 100 of these and throw the results but I'm just

645
00:52:39,470 --> 00:52:42,530
It's curious if there's some way for the next survey,

646
00:52:43,110 --> 00:52:45,410
for us to look ahead and find a way to better communicate

647
00:52:45,410 --> 00:52:48,590
with individuals kind of, hey, when you take the survey,

648
00:52:48,770 --> 00:52:50,190
there'll be a login or something like that.

649
00:52:50,810 --> 00:52:52,310
And this is why I don't know.

650
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:54,730
If you feel it's necessary, or even if the other

651
00:52:54,730 --> 00:52:58,370
surveys that you do across the country with this,

652
00:52:58,390 --> 00:53:00,970
you know, in this fashion, if you've had issues with that

653
00:53:00,970 --> 00:53:02,470
and how you've addressed it as well.

654
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:05,800
All right.

655
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,080
Sure, as a company, that is something

656
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,120
that we are moving away from for that being the standard

657
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:16,200
for that open participation survey and the main reason is because we found that one people

658
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:21,660
are wary of providing their email address and two they just don't see the messages

659
00:53:21,660 --> 00:53:25,580
that we have so we actually did have it in two separate places in the beginning of the

660
00:53:25,580 --> 00:53:30,640
survey that the registration would be required but the problem is is that we've increasingly

661
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,080
found that people just go straight to the first question so that they all can do that.

662
00:53:34,660 --> 00:53:35,040
That was me.

663
00:53:35,860 --> 00:53:36,320
Hi.

664
00:53:36,420 --> 00:53:36,660
Did that?

665
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:38,000
I went to the first question.

666
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:38,740
I skipped it.

667
00:53:38,740 --> 00:53:43,480
And I got the end and I was like, cool, like now I have to sign in and then I was like, well

668
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:49,580
I'm a councilwoman, like I don't know if I should, I know this is, you know, uh, uh, unanimous

669
00:53:49,580 --> 00:53:52,780
right or unanimous, uh, anonymous, sorry, I haven't got a whole lot of sleep last week.

670
00:53:53,180 --> 00:53:57,940
I know this is anonymous, I know that like no one's gonna trace it, but like I don't know if this is,

671
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,460
so then I, that's when I reached out to the colon, I was like, I didn't know I had to log in, so that was

672
00:54:01,460 --> 00:54:06,920
me totally did not pay attention that the two warnings at ahead of it early early on.

673
00:54:07,100 --> 00:54:10,740
So when you move away from that, what is it going to look like?

674
00:54:11,460 --> 00:54:14,120
So it will be an optional prompt at the end of the survey.

675
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:19,600
So the survey responses will be submitted and then an optional prompt will pop up that says

676
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,700
do you want to register to the jurisdiction's profile?

677
00:54:23,380 --> 00:54:25,340
But then how do you prevent complication?

678
00:54:25,900 --> 00:54:31,260
Counselor, Samson, yeah, your time is up so we'll come around you in the second round.

679
00:54:31,260 --> 00:54:40,980
Councillor Black. Thank you Madam Mayor. I've only been up here for a year so I'm just wondering

680
00:54:40,980 --> 00:54:45,400
how has the City utilized these survey results thus far?

681
00:54:48,860 --> 00:54:52,120
So for previous surveys and I wasn't

682
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:59,660
here in 2020 for the last strategic plan so maybe City Manager Wencing has a thought but we anytime

683
00:54:59,660 --> 00:55:06,540
time we do community engagement like this, this is part of the preparation for things like

684
00:55:06,540 --> 00:55:12,580
strategic plans. And then I will say even project specific levels, I'll use the roadway

685
00:55:12,580 --> 00:55:19,720
safety study that public works did. I think they started that back in 2021, but this can

686
00:55:19,720 --> 00:55:25,840
even inform some of those plans. So when we see that there's a need in various areas

687
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:30,940
and we see that there's community feedback in those areas, it does allow staff to say there's

688
00:55:30,940 --> 00:55:35,480
alignment. There's alignment in terms of what we know needs to happen and we're hearing that

689
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:40,700
community feedback and so how can we you know how can we move the needle on that. So past survey

690
00:55:40,700 --> 00:55:46,500
efforts have been used for guiding documents such as strategic plans and project plans.

691
00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:57,940
Okay. So as far as economic health and development, so I know folks have had the issue with that

692
00:55:57,940 --> 00:56:06,760
everybody has their different ideas of what good growth looks like. So and I know part

693
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:12,920
of that is our planning department. And so just since I've been involved for two or three

694
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:20,280
years now there have been a lot of concerns. And that has to do a transparency. And folks

695
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:28,340
not trusting that process. And so I'm wondering has that has anything changed since the last

696
00:56:28,340 --> 00:56:32,820
survey? Because I don't think those numbers have changed that much. I think they've gotten

697
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:39,860
worse. I think they increased in fact. And so I'm just wondering have has the city changed

698
00:56:39,860 --> 00:56:45,700
that process or gotten more feedback from the community on how to make that a more

699
00:56:45,700 --> 00:56:47,060
transparent process?

700
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:49,100
Thank you, Councillor Black.

701
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:50,840
So I'm actually going to ask Brandon.

702
00:56:51,780 --> 00:56:58,000
So I think when we're looking at these topics, especially economic health and maybe we can

703
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,920
even go back Brandon to slide.

704
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:04,060
What was it?

705
00:57:06,540 --> 00:57:07,580
Slide 14.

706
00:57:07,580 --> 00:57:12,400
but maybe you can talk a little bit about everything that maybe fell into the

707
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:19,000
economy category and maybe what that tells us or what we, yeah.

708
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:19,580
Are

709
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:34,100
certain Macro

710
00:57:39,980 --> 00:57:41,560
almost made it all the way without doing that.

711
00:57:43,860 --> 00:57:47,380
So there are the macro factors that are playing into this.

712
00:57:47,500 --> 00:57:50,320
So even though there are certain items that decrease, they still remain similar to

713
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,280
the National Benchwork, which means this isn't necessarily a unique challenge

714
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:55,660
to love wind itself.

715
00:57:56,780 --> 00:58:01,420
When it comes to speaking of the transparency, I'm not sure I can speak to that specifically.

716
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:07,060
But these are still rather strong ratings for each of these items.

717
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,260
Another piece to remember when you're looking at these results and when you're looking at the report is

718
00:58:11,260 --> 00:58:17,600
just because something says that it's 37% positive doesn't necessarily mean that that's 63% negative.

719
00:58:18,100 --> 00:58:22,580
That there is a fair or neutral rating in these scales for each one of these items

720
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:38,980
that we don't include because we consider it's fair, it's neutral, it's average, we want to report on what is above average, what is well above average, to really give a better picture of here are the successful aspects of lovely and here is where residents feel lovely is doing well.

721
00:58:39,780 --> 00:58:42,340
So just to keep that perspective as you're looking through the results.

722
00:58:42,940 --> 00:58:43,360
Thank you.

723
00:58:43,360 --> 00:59:12,260
And then sorry, I will just quickly address for you know specific to your question about planning as an example with transparency, absolutely anytime we get feedback like this, we do look at how you know with what we're hearing from the community with even this survey with other opportunities, how can we, how can we even help educate the community better, how can we provide additional resources in certain areas to help with some of those areas.

724
00:59:12,260 --> 00:59:13,560
So in short, yes.

725
00:59:15,010 --> 00:59:15,520
All right.

726
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,540
Madam Mayor, if I can, Madam Mayor.

727
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:18,420
Yes, go ahead.

728
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:24,020
Just to add to that, I think what's really important here is the follow-up.

729
00:59:24,780 --> 00:59:28,740
I think that's really important to get more granular now

730
00:59:29,090 --> 00:59:31,120
and having conversations with the community.

731
00:59:31,820 --> 00:59:34,780
And certainly, that's the plan moving forward.

732
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:40,360
Because, you know, this information is fantastic, but it also creates curiosities.

733
00:59:40,900 --> 00:59:45,400
right? Really wonder what that means. I really want and the only way we will know

734
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,920
that is to re-engage with the community and have additional conversations.

735
00:59:50,540 --> 00:59:54,440
All right. Thank you. I'm not seeing other lights on. I will also add to my

736
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:59,220
comments. I enjoyed seeing the comments asking for more transit, more hours, more

737
00:59:59,220 --> 00:59:59,920
location.

738
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:29,760
I'm sorry, I just wanted to make sure I understood the random sample. That was 4,000 surveys mailed to random residents or households involved. What can you explain with open participation is for me again? Sure. So yes, the 4,000 randomly selected through our kind of our sampling and randomizing process.

739
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:37,460
The open participation was a survey where the links were put out by the city itself that any resident could take.

740
01:00:38,300 --> 01:00:47,920
And with that, in the first question, it did ask the respondent to identify which area of lovelin they lived in or if they weren't a resident of lovelin all on its own.

741
01:00:48,060 --> 01:00:53,480
And how is that information verified, or is it verified, or does it matter that it's verified?

742
01:00:53,780 --> 01:00:57,140
In other words, isn't whether they're actually a resident of lovels?

743
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:59,200
It's a little bit on the honor system.

744
01:00:59,420 --> 01:01:05,060
And what is in place to make sure that one doesn't take the survey three, four, five, six times?

745
01:01:05,780 --> 01:01:15,240
We use various security measures like cookies and things like that to prevent one device itself from submitting multiple responses.

746
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:21,200
But we also have algorithms that we run when we clean the data at the end of the data collection.

747
01:01:21,380 --> 01:01:26,440
And we do this for both the random sample and the open participation survey that identifies surveys that

748
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:33,420
that have 95% or greater similarity, which we will then analyze, those surveys specifically themselves and determine whether they were duplicates or not.

749
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:44,960
Okay, and I, we had a return kind of, but you're seeing up on Councillor Foley's, we spent $25,000, is that what I understood over the last two years.

750
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:51,420
And we have got back about 1,500 responses.

751
01:01:51,420 --> 01:01:57,060
900 of those were open participation and 600 of those were in response to the 4,000

752
01:01:57,060 --> 01:02:02,700
mailers that we sent out, which is a low number when you consider the population of

753
01:02:02,700 --> 01:02:09,540
Lovland is if we round it up to what 85,000, you know, we're really only hearing from a

754
01:02:09,540 --> 01:02:17,460
very small sampling of residents of Lovland. Do you agree with that premise? And I understand

755
01:02:17,460 --> 01:02:22,480
statistically it sounds like well it's statistically valid survey but it really

756
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,580
is a low number of people that responded to this. It is a low number of people but

757
01:02:26,580 --> 01:02:31,040
that's why the survey science itself specifically exists. Right and I wasn't

758
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:36,040
surprised by the fact that 84% claimed to be voters because of the 600 and some

759
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,840
folks that responded we could probably go through and identify the 600 votes

760
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:45,640
that are active or people that are very active in loved ones not political

761
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:51,520
seen but governance seen and so we tend to hear from probably a hundred of them on a regular

762
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:57,700
basis through email and public comment etc so when the question was asked what do we do from

763
01:02:57,700 --> 01:03:04,880
here I'm not sure that I mean the survey is important and but it doesn't surprise me the things

764
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:10,560
that people found valuable and it doesn't surprise me that things that people found meeting improvement

765
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:14,360
Thank you.

766
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:16,660
All right. Thank you, Councillor Samson.

767
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,600
Thank you, Mayor Marsh.

768
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:28,860
So I was going to ask the same question about how you can ensure, because if you're going

769
01:03:28,860 --> 01:03:35,100
to eliminate the login process down the road, how you can ensure that individuals won't be

770
01:03:35,100 --> 01:03:38,840
able to fill out multiple surveys, a singular individual.

771
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:43,660
So that's good to know I didn't know that you had the algorithm and you didn't, but you check those that are so similar.

772
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:45,320
So I think that's wonderful.

773
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:51,200
And I agree that it is also a lower percentage of individuals.

774
01:03:52,540 --> 01:03:57,400
But I might have missed this Nicole. Did you say how many did this?

775
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:04,840
How many of those who received the mail-out surveys completed in this year versus two years ago?

776
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,600
Was it a reduced involvement or increased?

777
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:16,020
Sure, so on slide nine we'll pull that up and keep in mind, so 2022 and 2024, those are

778
01:04:16,020 --> 01:04:20,300
the years that we have done the national community survey and the reason we shifted to this

779
01:04:20,300 --> 01:04:26,400
survey is so that we could benchmark ourselves not just against us but against like-minded

780
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:26,740
cities.

781
01:04:26,740 --> 01:04:32,580
It could align better with our performance measurement, but 2022 and 2024, so these numbers

782
01:04:32,580 --> 01:04:39,240
are with this particular survey and so in 2022 we had an 18% response rate for

783
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:46,960
random sample and we had 1,315 people respond open participation and yeah and

784
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:52,640
I would you know that was the first survey we had done in four years and there I

785
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:57,700
think where some other things happening in our community at the time that you

786
01:04:57,700 --> 01:05:02,800
know maybe sparked some more civic engagement. I don't know for sure but our

787
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:09,900
numbers are slightly lower in 2024 than they were in 2022. Okay cool so I'll

788
01:05:09,900 --> 01:05:12,460
say one thing then I have one question or I'll say two things so thank you

789
01:05:12,460 --> 01:05:15,300
again for doing this. I know it's a ton of work to put all this together. I still

790
01:05:15,300 --> 01:05:19,380
think the information's valuable even though there isn't this huge sample and I

791
01:05:19,380 --> 01:05:22,900
agree it's probably people who are more inclined to be you know engaging already

792
01:05:22,900 --> 01:05:26,860
in some way with government but I still think there's value to it and it's worth

793
01:05:26,860 --> 01:05:30,820
You know kind of continuing even if we find a way to like make it a bigger sample somehow

794
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:32,640
Down the road

795
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:36,460
Just kind of through like you had mentioned the community engagement piece after this

796
01:05:37,300 --> 01:05:41,520
And then I also want to say I'm not surprised that word to was the most engaged

797
01:05:42,540 --> 01:05:48,480
Because I was Daniel will agree like we saw from the survey. Loveland is the best city up here

798
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,440
And we of course are the best word in loveland just saying might be biased

799
01:05:53,460 --> 01:05:54,760
But I did also

800
01:05:54,760 --> 01:06:02,480
So I want to ask you at what point, what's the threshold as far as engagement is concerned

801
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:07,540
where we say look it's really not worth all the work and the $25,000 like we would stop

802
01:06:07,540 --> 01:06:11,880
after if we only received 12% or something in return.

803
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:14,940
Like what is the average threshold for that?

804
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:26,200
It depends on what you're able to do with the survey itself and how you want to use the

805
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:26,520
results.

806
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:28,720
That threshold is going to be different for everybody.

807
01:06:28,860 --> 01:06:33,960
There are people who would be delighted with 600 responses and trust the science.

808
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:41,400
There are people that would get 1,500 responses and still try and discredit the science and discredit the service.

809
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:49,200
It's, you are hearing from the majority of voices that you don't necessarily hear from doing a random based sample.

810
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:54,200
One of the things that we see in the report is that less than a quarter of the respondents actually reported that

811
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:56,500
that they had watched or attended a local public meeting,

812
01:06:56,500 --> 01:07:00,080
which means more than 75% of these are people you likely

813
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:01,620
have not heard from previously.

814
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:04,820
So what we're looking for is to really hit that meat

815
01:07:04,820 --> 01:07:08,000
of the middle of the community where you can pick out

816
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:10,300
their face, the people that you know who you're gonna hear

817
01:07:10,300 --> 01:07:11,460
from on a regular basis.

818
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,540
You can pick them out, walking down the street.

819
01:07:14,620 --> 01:07:18,180
The good majority of the rest of them likely couldn't pick

820
01:07:18,180 --> 01:07:19,000
you out of a lineup.

821
01:07:19,740 --> 01:07:21,400
And those are the people that we're aiming for.

822
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:23,620
Those are the people that we want the responses from

823
01:07:23,620 --> 01:07:30,700
And that's why we use the representativeness in waiting the results and also that margin of error because if we were to

824
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,060
Survey you said 85,000

825
01:07:35,300 --> 01:07:36,100
80 yeah

826
01:07:38,140 --> 01:07:44,340
One that would be a significant hard cost in order to be able to get to all of those survey respondents and two

827
01:07:44,340 --> 01:07:49,760
It would take a significant amount of time where you know if we're looking at let's just use Florida as an example

828
01:07:49,760 --> 01:08:10,880
We would be looking at months and in those month long spans you could be hit by two separate hurricanes or some other natural disasters or some natural phenomenon which would actually further invalidate the data than it would necessarily make it more statistically valid because you heard from every resident within the community.

829
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:19,100
All right councillors thank you. All right councillor block. Thank you Madam Mayor. I've been on the other side of a survey

830
01:08:19,100 --> 01:08:26,640
I've just been a community member and filled it out. I've also was a former trust commissioner and we did a survey and

831
01:08:27,580 --> 01:08:29,040
During all those times

832
01:08:30,980 --> 01:08:35,780
You know some of the comments I heard from councillors and

833
01:08:36,980 --> 01:08:39,040
The lack of action thereafter

834
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:45,540
after, kind of made me feel like my voice didn't matter when I filled out the survey to

835
01:08:45,540 --> 01:08:47,180
be completely honest with you.

836
01:08:47,900 --> 01:08:51,860
And that's some of the concerns that I'm hearing in the feedback from the community.

837
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:54,660
Doesn't matter what I tell them anyways.

838
01:08:55,440 --> 01:09:03,760
I will say that the trust issues, the transparency issues that folks have vocalized for many

839
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:12,400
years regarding their government, city leadership and city councillors. It's still really hard

840
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:20,020
to read, but I accept it. I will not dismiss any person's voice. I don't care if it's

841
01:09:20,020 --> 01:09:27,360
four people or 4,000 or 40,000. So I want to say thank you to each and every person that

842
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:35,020
filled out this survey, it matters to me, and I'm committed to helping the city make

843
01:09:35,020 --> 01:09:42,040
necessary changes so that transparency and trust and accountability, those numbers raise

844
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:44,740
at some point in the city of Wubble, and I'd love to see that.

845
01:09:45,180 --> 01:09:47,200
Thank you all for the presentation.

846
01:09:48,580 --> 01:09:48,820
All right.

847
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:54,720
I think we're going to open up public comment, so we have 15 minutes of public comment allowed

848
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:57,140
out on this item, it's three minutes per person.

849
01:09:57,820 --> 01:10:00,560
Come on up and give us your name and city of residence, please.

850
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:04,000
George Garcliffe's love and colorado.

851
01:10:05,220 --> 01:10:05,920
A couple of comments.

852
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:11,100
First, the interaction between the presenters

853
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:18,540
and some of the counselors, I didn't get an A in statistics,

854
01:10:18,540 --> 01:10:19,900
but I came very close.

855
01:10:19,900 --> 01:10:38,260
So the disparagement about the numbers, the low numbers, I've said this before, this is probably the same level of involvement that you guys got elected by and I have not heard any complaints about the low numbers that you got elected by.

856
01:10:39,140 --> 01:10:48,260
So, you know, let's let that one go. Statistically it might not be perfect but you know it's got something that you can get your teeth into.

857
01:10:48,260 --> 01:10:52,900
And so, you know, I have to stand behind the science.

858
01:10:53,500 --> 01:11:00,500
The one thing that really stood out to me is the one slide

859
01:11:00,500 --> 01:11:03,960
where there's probably an incredibly huge disparity

860
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:07,160
between what people considered important

861
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:10,220
and the level of quality that they attributed to.

862
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:11,600
And that's the economy.

863
01:11:13,420 --> 01:11:15,640
You know, if you take a look at the one slide

864
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:21,060
with a large black bar at the top, economies rated as the number two most important thing

865
01:11:21,060 --> 01:11:25,260
that people considered, and it's one of the lowest things that they said that they

866
01:11:25,260 --> 01:11:34,020
find in love. I can be corrected on this one. When I took a look at the survey, I assumed

867
01:11:34,020 --> 01:11:38,740
that people are talking about the economy as their family economy and how they're doing.

868
01:11:45,060 --> 01:11:45,580
I did

869
01:11:45,580 --> 01:11:51,160
personal stuff. And this reflects what's happening nationally. There's an awful lot of folks in this

870
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:56,820
country that are having a hard time making ends meet. The cost of living is exceeding what people

871
01:11:56,820 --> 01:12:03,400
have available to them. And that's something that shows up in the last election in terms of

872
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:08,560
the vote against getting a raise in the sales tax. People are saying, wait a second.

873
01:12:09,440 --> 01:12:14,120
You know, that failed by a vote of two to one. And then reflect stuff that happened the other,

874
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:20,720
you know, last election too. That's something to get you, you know, get your teeth into. One of the

875
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:27,740
other things that I heard is kind of disparaging, you know, the low number of voters are apathetic,

876
01:12:27,740 --> 01:12:36,040
they've been misinformed and the city has to do a better job educating them. Folks, when the public

877
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:42,040
hears you talking about them being dumb, misinformed, they didn't get it right and they need to be

878
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:47,160
educated you might get back with a message that maybe you're the folks that need

879
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:51,500
the education and that maybe you need to be listening to the folks that you're

880
01:12:51,500 --> 01:12:57,040
supposed to serve rather than the other way around and that's just my personal

881
01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:01,200
opinion. So I appreciate hearing the stuff that's been brought up and I wish

882
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:02,800
you guys the best of luck dealing with this.

883
01:13:05,010 --> 01:13:06,710
Thank you. Is there additional public

884
01:13:18,390 --> 01:13:42,970
I just wanted to compliment Laura for suggesting that there are things I think may be a lot of things that we need to wait on until we have a new city manager who I think is going to be fantastic as you all did.

885
01:13:42,970 --> 01:13:45,250
So let's give him a lot of chance.

886
01:13:46,630 --> 01:13:50,710
Thank you. Is there additional public comment from inside chambers?

887
01:13:52,980 --> 01:13:57,480
All right. Sterling, do we have any phone in public comment on this item?

888
01:13:59,180 --> 01:14:04,300
Thank you, Mayor Marsh. Users, if you would like to speak to this item, please use the

889
01:14:04,300 --> 01:14:08,020
raise your hand feature or press star nine if joining by phone.

890
01:14:09,820 --> 01:14:17,240
When called by the moderator, please accept the request from a panelist and you may begin

891
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:20,380
your public comment by starting your microphone and video.

892
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:26,560
One more time, users if you'd like to speak during this item, please use the Razer Hand

893
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:31,520
feature and I do not have any users with raised hands.

894
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:33,920
All right, we'll close public comment.

895
01:14:34,260 --> 01:14:38,360
Again, I want to thank all three of you and everyone who helped with this and all the

896
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:44,960
residents who did respond. So appreciate it. Be interesting to see how we employ these suggestions,

897
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:51,780
the feedback, what we can do better, and continue doing well what we do well. All right, thank you.

898
01:14:53,380 --> 01:14:59,960
We'll move on to item 2.2 from our Community Partnership Office. A presenter will be

899
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,900
Allyson, hey, it's a affordable housing policy.

900
01:15:50,100 --> 01:15:53,820
Right, Carrie, we got to find Allyson. So

901
01:15:57,110 --> 01:16:00,430
I'm sure you're more than capable of kicking us off anyway.

902
01:16:03,940 --> 01:16:04,640
Welcome, Jamie.

903
01:16:41,700 --> 01:16:44,780
You didn't think we'd get to you by 715.

904
01:16:52,580 --> 01:16:55,180
I know we're 15 minutes early. No one expected.

905
01:17:01,350 --> 01:17:10,910
All right. Take it away, Allyson. All right. Good evening. Mayor members of the council. I thought you might take a break in between. And that didn't happen.

906
01:17:10,910 --> 01:17:15,270
happen. So we're ready. Let me grab a couple of notes.

907
01:17:19,820 --> 01:17:20,840
You can see what I'm going to have

908
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:21,720
you do on here.

909
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:27,560
With me tonight, Jamie Saven from Aspen

910
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:33,500
Homes in Carrie Bruchette from planning, also Nicole Hahn and Jim Lee's. I thought that

911
01:17:33,500 --> 01:17:42,040
I would have room for them at the table but I don't. So is Jim here? Yep, Jim is here

912
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:47,280
as well. So at what one point I will have them both come up to the table to

913
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:52,260
talk about the things that they're working on. So thank you for this time. I actually

914
01:17:52,260 --> 01:17:59,020
originally scheduled this as a study session in March and kept putting it off. And I did

915
01:17:59,020 --> 01:18:05,140
that because we were continuing to collect information and in fact we still are. And I

916
01:18:05,140 --> 01:18:10,400
realized at some point that it would probably be better to tell you what we're working

917
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:14,160
on instead of working on it and then presenting it to you.

918
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:21,120
So the purpose of tonight is to get you caught up on the work that's been happening over

919
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:26,900
a period of time, really starting in 2022 with the Affordable Housing Task Force.

920
01:18:29,860 --> 01:18:36,580
So I think that there's some data in this packet that really does talk about why we're

921
01:18:36,580 --> 01:18:37,880
here and why it's important.

922
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:44,320
And again, there are quite a few people in the city that are working on these items.

923
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:56,040
You can expect to see people coming back through, I would say, probably the first six months of 2025 to bring three to five items back to you.

924
01:18:56,700 --> 01:19:00,720
This first started with the Affordable Housing Task Force in 2022.

925
01:19:01,700 --> 01:19:05,900
And there were four recommendations by the task force.

926
01:19:05,900 --> 01:19:07,940
We're going to talk about the ones that were accomplished.

927
01:19:07,940 --> 01:19:12,500
First, ones that were more or less taken off the list, you could say the reason why.

928
01:19:13,420 --> 01:19:15,440
And again, what we're working on now.

929
01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:22,920
We did a couple of code amendments in Kerry did in September of 2023 and again in February

930
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:23,940
of 2024.

931
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:31,720
We're going to revisit those shortly and move through why those are important.

932
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:39,320
The hope is with, from my perspective, the hope that it is for every item that we bring

933
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:44,700
to you over the next six months, that we can attach a dollar value to it.

934
01:19:44,940 --> 01:19:49,040
That's going to be really difficult and more than likely those dollar amounts will be

935
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:49,340
wrong.

936
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:55,580
But we want to be able to get a sense of this, what is this work going to create actually in

937
01:19:55,580 --> 01:19:58,880
the ability to reduce the cost of building homes.

938
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:04,120
So, again, we're going to go over some of these numbers and you'll see why that's important.

939
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:09,700
There was a Biz West conference in October.

940
01:20:10,180 --> 01:20:11,520
Councillor Olson was there.

941
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:13,180
I'm not sure if other people were there.

942
01:20:13,440 --> 01:20:14,600
I may be one of you.

943
01:20:14,860 --> 01:20:15,420
I don't recall.

944
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:20,800
But I heard a couple of things during that, and Jamie was there as well.

945
01:20:21,060 --> 01:20:21,640
Were you at that one?

946
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:22,140
Okay.

947
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:27,160
I heard a couple of things that I'd kind of heard in the past, but it didn't really register.

948
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:34,500
The one of the reasons that creating affordable housing is important in our community is because

949
01:20:34,500 --> 01:20:36,360
we have a population that's aging.

950
01:20:36,620 --> 01:20:37,240
We know that.

951
01:20:37,540 --> 01:20:43,180
We know that in terms of job growth or in terms of jobs, there are people who are going

952
01:20:43,180 --> 01:20:48,400
to exit jobs in the near future and far fewer people who are going to take those jobs.

953
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:55,340
That's been a statistic that I believe I heard some time ago and it really registered to

954
01:20:55,340 --> 01:21:01,380
me in October when I realized and they said this, but like what that really means for

955
01:21:01,380 --> 01:21:01,800
Loveland.

956
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:07,060
And the fact that we have younger people who are going to take a lot of these jobs and

957
01:21:07,060 --> 01:21:07,920
they can't live here.

958
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:16,220
So I think about when we're hiring people in our office and our goal, especially when you

959
01:21:16,220 --> 01:21:20,980
think about winter, to have people who live a little bit closer, who aren't maybe commuting

960
01:21:20,980 --> 01:21:27,640
from Parker and we have had applicants wanting to do that because they can't afford to live

961
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:28,040
here.

962
01:21:28,340 --> 01:21:34,040
We want to be able to have homes available for people as they're moving into these jobs.

963
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:35,780
It helps our economy.

964
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:38,840
It helps actually our air.

965
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:45,960
We all know that we have air issues and having fewer people on the roads will benefit that as

966
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:46,180
well.

967
01:21:46,180 --> 01:21:53,180
So we have there are a lot of reasons why this matters and you just heard from Nicole and

968
01:21:53,180 --> 01:21:56,620
that it matters to a great deal of Loveland residents.

969
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:03,160
So I want to make sure that as we go through this tonight and into the future that we're

970
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:09,680
all working from the same definitions, I know that you have heard AMI or area median income

971
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:11,100
forever.

972
01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:15,260
I want to make sure that you have the chart that's in this packet.

973
01:22:15,260 --> 01:22:23,220
It will, this packet, I'm anything that I do, I'm going to attach these slides so that there's some continuity.

974
01:22:24,100 --> 01:22:32,420
The AMI changes every year around April, so for example if I were to come back here in February or March you would still have 2024 AMI numbers

975
01:22:32,420 --> 01:22:38,220
and that would be purposeful because it doesn't change until generally about the second quarter.

976
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:44,720
I know that you're aware of what affordable and attainable mean, but again, having some

977
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:49,900
consistent sort of definitions affordable has historically meant no more than 30 percent.

978
01:22:50,300 --> 01:22:55,520
And attainable can actually be any home where somebody is not paying any more than 30 percent.

979
01:22:56,040 --> 01:23:01,660
We've interchanged those words trying to say that affordable might mean low income, 30 to

980
01:23:01,660 --> 01:23:08,980
60% AMI, and maybe we've used attainable for 60 to 80 or workforce housing, but in

981
01:23:08,980 --> 01:23:14,920
reality, attainable can be a home that works for anybody at any income level by paying

982
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:16,800
30% of their gross income.

983
01:23:17,540 --> 01:23:21,860
We want to make sure that as we're building homes, we're going to get into this a little

984
01:23:21,860 --> 01:23:26,760
bit tonight that families aren't cost burdened by paying far more than they can afford.

985
01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:35,160
and then again the definitions from 30 to 80 where we can be consistent from very low income, low income, moderate income and middle income.

986
01:23:38,310 --> 01:23:46,310
AMI, Wilson Commons, I asked Jamie to be here so he could talk about, give you an update on that pilot project at 70% AMI.

987
01:23:46,670 --> 01:23:52,050
You'll recall that in February we moved LHA and habitat up to 80% AMI.

988
01:23:53,850 --> 01:23:59,450
So, all of this should be familiar to you, well, I guess some of you aren't on council

989
01:23:59,450 --> 01:24:05,630
yet, but the very first EPS study, this data was the data that the Affordable Housing

990
01:24:05,630 --> 01:24:11,110
Task Force at Leigh Johnson presented, that we've lost housing in this middle income

991
01:24:11,110 --> 01:24:15,470
category, and we've had little other housing growth.

992
01:24:15,830 --> 01:24:21,130
We know that regionally we've had a net loss of the types of homes that would be affordable

993
01:24:21,130 --> 01:24:24,850
to young people who would be moving into our community

994
01:24:24,850 --> 01:24:27,010
or that we would need for particular jobs.

995
01:24:27,790 --> 01:24:30,410
That medium home price has gone up over time.

996
01:24:30,410 --> 01:24:31,590
That's very obvious.

997
01:24:32,350 --> 01:24:35,930
And we've lost our rentals have gone up dramatically

998
01:24:36,690 --> 01:24:40,010
and that the Affordable Health, the EPS report,

999
01:24:40,390 --> 01:24:43,230
stated that Loveland has generating more jobs than housing.

1000
01:24:43,830 --> 01:24:46,310
So also if there's any question about this data,

1001
01:24:46,770 --> 01:24:48,230
we can talk about that later.

1002
01:24:48,230 --> 01:25:04,670
Looking at what people can afford, this is, so for somebody who is at 80% AMI doing this sort of math, we've shown that we have 376,027 homes.

1003
01:25:04,970 --> 01:25:11,050
Once you add in an HOA fee, which is very common to do, that number goes down to 10.

1004
01:25:11,050 --> 01:25:16,750
So, even at 80% of the area median income, we need far more homes.

1005
01:25:19,480 --> 01:25:29,060
Also for rent, looking at 80% AMI and 60% AMI, at 60% AMI, I found 13 two bedroom

1006
01:25:29,060 --> 01:25:29,580
apartments.

1007
01:25:29,900 --> 01:25:32,660
At 80% AMI, there were quite a few.

1008
01:25:33,820 --> 01:25:37,300
LHA, as you know, can now build up to 80% AMI.

1009
01:25:37,300 --> 01:25:43,980
The only reason that they would do that is so that they could produce more of the lower

1010
01:25:43,980 --> 01:25:44,900
AMI units.

1011
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:46,260
So that's just a math equation.

1012
01:25:46,860 --> 01:25:48,760
They need to make a certain amount in rent.

1013
01:25:49,060 --> 01:25:54,860
If they can charge more for some here, they can build more units at the very low income level.

1014
01:25:55,700 --> 01:26:00,540
One of the things that I think is key is just watching both the inventory, the vacancy rate,

1015
01:26:00,540 --> 01:26:03,840
and the cost of housing in Loveland.

1016
01:26:04,360 --> 01:26:06,800
Really, a lot of it is remaining pretty steady.

1017
01:26:07,340 --> 01:26:09,940
I kept hoping that as I watched this over time,

1018
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:12,640
that we would see, as our vacant sea goes up,

1019
01:26:12,940 --> 01:26:15,640
that we would see our rental prices go down,

1020
01:26:15,900 --> 01:26:18,240
I'm not seeing that in any significant way.

1021
01:26:21,340 --> 01:26:23,180
Okay, I'm going to turn this over to Jamie

1022
01:26:23,180 --> 01:26:26,640
to talk about the Wilson Commons pilot project.

1023
01:26:28,870 --> 01:26:31,590
Just put your push button so you get a green light.

1024
01:26:31,590 --> 01:26:32,550
Okay. Okay.

1025
01:26:34,730 --> 01:26:39,550
So the first thing I want to say is in the difficult environment for building

1026
01:26:39,550 --> 01:26:44,990
affordable homes in today's market, if you're going to do it as part of industry, you need

1027
01:26:44,990 --> 01:26:50,710
to be a part of a team. The builder has to work with the developer and they have to share

1028
01:26:50,710 --> 01:26:55,650
the common goal and work towards that together. Our developer has done that with us, Juliano

1029
01:26:55,650 --> 01:26:59,670
and father construction, and we wouldn't be able to do the things that we did without their

1030
01:26:59,670 --> 01:27:04,930
help. We also have to work as a team with the city, and the city of Loveland has worked

1031
01:27:04,930 --> 01:27:10,850
with us on that, and that is also why we're able to deliver these things. So we deliver

1032
01:27:10,850 --> 01:27:15,170
the end product, we get the credit, but those other members do a lot along the way.

1033
01:27:17,090 --> 01:27:23,510
So typically the affordable projects that happen on a large basis have a set aside area with

1034
01:27:23,510 --> 01:27:30,450
a different product type, that is that affordable product, and sometimes that's looked down upon

1035
01:27:30,450 --> 01:27:34,410
by the other part of the neighborhood, it's pulling down values, doing things like that

1036
01:27:34,410 --> 01:27:38,590
that they're concerned about. It's also very hard on long-term projects

1037
01:27:38,970 --> 01:27:45,230
to make those actually work because you have a very static deliverable that you're doing

1038
01:27:45,230 --> 01:27:48,750
and these large projects take a large amount of time.

1039
01:27:49,730 --> 01:27:53,770
For the concept of this, and then the other thing that happens, sorry.

1040
01:27:54,610 --> 01:28:00,370
The other thing that happens is that with all of that going on, there's not as much

1041
01:28:00,370 --> 01:28:06,970
transparency in where the dollar value, the dollars that the city is giving is going and

1042
01:28:06,970 --> 01:28:11,770
that causes friction between the city and the developer and trust and all of those things.

1043
01:28:12,810 --> 01:28:18,670
So what we tried to do with the pilot project approach is number one increase the transparency

1044
01:28:18,670 --> 01:28:24,750
emergency, and number two, make things work more uniformly throughout the neighborhood.

1045
01:28:25,310 --> 01:28:29,750
So instead of just putting the voucher, the way what we get from the city is a reduced

1046
01:28:29,750 --> 01:28:31,210
voucher on every permit.

1047
01:28:32,130 --> 01:28:37,470
And for doing that, we have to produce 20% of all the homes in the subdivision have to

1048
01:28:37,470 --> 01:28:43,370
be sold to people at 70% AMI or below verified by the city, and Allison's group.

1049
01:28:44,790 --> 01:28:51,050
Instead of just having that one project separate from everywhere else, the concept that we

1050
01:28:51,050 --> 01:28:56,570
came up with was integrating those affordable homes into the neighborhood and we're actually

1051
01:28:57,200 --> 01:29:03,110
building the same product for a market rate house as we are for an affordable house.

1052
01:29:03,770 --> 01:29:09,230
And then the other thing we did is 20% is 1 in 5.

1053
01:29:09,230 --> 01:29:17,230
So we would take the vouchers, the reduced fees that we got, and we would track that amount.

1054
01:29:17,970 --> 01:29:20,070
And then we would group five homes together.

1055
01:29:20,890 --> 01:29:28,130
And we would say, we would price all of our regular homes at market rate like we weren't getting any benefit from the city for those permit fees.

1056
01:29:28,590 --> 01:29:35,770
We were paying full vote, and then we take all that money and put it into that one affordable house.

1057
01:29:37,430 --> 01:29:44,310
And we tracked that with a very simple form and had both us and the city and the place

1058
01:29:44,310 --> 01:29:49,030
of Alice and sign it so that we're tracking all the money going into the project and

1059
01:29:49,030 --> 01:29:50,030
where it is being spent.

1060
01:29:51,010 --> 01:29:56,130
And then we have some nice traceability because we're selling both the same product for market

1061
01:29:56,130 --> 01:29:59,810
rate and we can show that it's sold for this amount and what we sold

1062
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:10,280
So that worked very well. We started this back in 2021 and in some paired homes, there you'll

1063
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:16,640
see the market rate price and the affordables. We were able to deliver affordable homes

1064
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:27,400
to people for $232,000 up to $276. So a very affordable product. We did that through the

1065
01:30:27,400 --> 01:30:34,180
to 2023 as we moved along actually in the beginning it was working so well that we were able

1066
01:30:34,180 --> 01:30:41,840
to do a one in four ratio and we are actually building 25% affordable rather than 20 thinking we

1067
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:48,240
were getting ahead and doing a tremendous job for everybody. We had some things happen that we

1068
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:55,520
didn't expect. COVID happened and there was amazing cost increases in our industry and then interest

1069
01:30:55,520 --> 01:31:00,780
rate shot through the roof. We were able to hold our prices all the way through for the

1070
01:31:00,780 --> 01:31:06,240
affordables while the market rates went up. For our first section of homes where we're

1071
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:15,260
doing affordables, we kept the prices through the beginning of 2023 and we could have completed

1072
01:31:15,260 --> 01:31:22,180
18 affordable homes that way. We offered three others but as the interest rate shot up, the

1073
01:31:22,180 --> 01:31:26,360
people just felt things were going too quickly and out of control, and we didn't have any offers,

1074
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:28,940
and we just had to turn those into market rate homes.

1075
01:31:32,550 --> 01:31:36,370
Fast forward to today, we're doing a new

1076
01:31:36,370 --> 01:31:41,850
part of the project with affordable homes once again, but we're farther along in the process,

1077
01:31:42,010 --> 01:31:47,890
the lots were being delivered are not pre-COVID, they're post-COVID, all the other things that increase

1078
01:31:47,890 --> 01:31:49,910
those costs are moving forward.

1079
01:31:52,090 --> 01:31:56,730
Lumber costs went catastrophically high and now

1080
01:31:56,730 --> 01:32:01,470
they're back to just 20% higher than they were before COVID. Everything else is

1081
01:32:01,470 --> 01:32:06,170
still more expensive, nothing else has really come down. We're now able to

1082
01:32:06,170 --> 01:32:17,470
deliver an affordable home at 287 and they are our other one at 309 and we're still

1083
01:32:17,470 --> 01:32:22,570
able to move ahead with everything. So one thing that's been really impressive about

1084
01:32:22,570 --> 01:32:28,950
taking this approach is we've been able to be dynamic and adapt as we went through

1085
01:32:28,950 --> 01:32:32,130
all those things and we're still delivering affordable homes all the way through there.

1086
01:32:33,590 --> 01:32:40,750
And all the phone, all those homes are integrated through the community and they had no impact

1087
01:32:40,750 --> 01:32:43,630
the impact on the home value of anyone else.

1088
01:32:44,090 --> 01:32:45,670
All the value stayed high.

1089
01:32:46,350 --> 01:32:50,750
Everyone is happy and you have this nice intermix of people living within the neighborhood,

1090
01:32:51,250 --> 01:32:53,590
which I think is a very positive approach.

1091
01:32:54,710 --> 01:32:58,810
The other thing that we have going that allows us to move forward is we're tracking all the money.

1092
01:32:59,090 --> 01:33:04,450
We can show you where every dime of city money is gone and where it will go.

1093
01:33:05,410 --> 01:33:08,370
And that increases the city's trust in us.

1094
01:33:08,370 --> 01:33:11,970
and our trust that we're not going to be blamed for not accomplishing something.

1095
01:33:13,090 --> 01:33:18,930
So, I feel that this approach has proven to have a lot of amazing benefits

1096
01:33:18,930 --> 01:33:22,090
considered that are different than the old approach.

1097
01:33:25,650 --> 01:33:30,990
But I will say that we are hitting a point that we're getting close to the edge.

1098
01:33:30,990 --> 01:33:35,510
We're now serving at that 70% AMI at the prices we're doing.

1099
01:33:35,510 --> 01:33:44,950
We're not meeting that true net, net affordability, which is the 30% of your household income for these 70% buyers.

1100
01:33:45,270 --> 01:33:47,370
They are stretching themselves to get into these homes.

1101
01:33:47,970 --> 01:33:51,790
It's still the best deal that they can find, and they are really happy to do it.

1102
01:33:52,110 --> 01:33:55,290
But we're serving a smaller and smaller niche of people.

1103
01:33:56,550 --> 01:34:03,990
And if interest rates continue to climb, I don't really see our costs going up quickly like they were for so long.

1104
01:34:04,690 --> 01:34:10,610
So, that's been nice, that that's stabilized, but if interest rates continue to go up,

1105
01:34:10,870 --> 01:34:15,150
there'll be a point, some point in the future where with what we're doing, we may not

1106
01:34:15,150 --> 01:34:17,270
have a customer that can qualify for this.

1107
01:34:19,270 --> 01:34:27,070
So we've been amazingly successful, and I think that this program can be reproduced in

1108
01:34:27,070 --> 01:34:28,270
a myriad of other ways.

1109
01:34:28,270 --> 01:34:30,230
Can we just go to the next slide?

1110
01:34:30,590 --> 01:34:33,630
I may be talking too much in this one slide.

1111
01:34:34,350 --> 01:34:36,690
I wanted to jump back to another point,

1112
01:34:38,130 --> 01:34:41,230
something else that helped us adapt along the way

1113
01:34:41,810 --> 01:34:45,850
with the changes that were made to the city code.

1114
01:34:45,850 --> 01:34:48,930
We were able to change some large lots into smaller lots

1115
01:34:49,690 --> 01:34:51,070
and in the affordable.

1116
01:34:51,550 --> 01:34:53,330
And I just, you were talking about the benefits

1117
01:34:53,330 --> 01:34:55,990
of dollar values of what we can do.

1118
01:34:55,990 --> 01:35:00,730
So it's hard to say exactly how you're looking at everything, but if you look at the original

1119
01:35:00,730 --> 01:35:06,830
street that we had with large lots and we're doing these three car garages and slightly

1120
01:35:06,830 --> 01:35:14,430
larger homes, we were going to be serving 550,000 to high 600s in homes.

1121
01:35:14,790 --> 01:35:24,310
That same street now is delivering smaller single-family homes in the high 400s to low 500s.

1122
01:35:24,310 --> 01:35:33,430
homes or duplexes in the low 400s and affordable pair homes, 287 to 309.

1123
01:35:33,950 --> 01:35:39,970
So I would just say that's an example of what the small lot size can do for changing

1124
01:35:39,970 --> 01:35:43,070
the end housing product that's on the market.

1125
01:35:48,530 --> 01:35:55,360
So kind of a lessons learned or benefits that we saw, I really think integrating those

1126
01:35:55,360 --> 01:36:02,320
homes throughout the neighborhood has a great benefit for the community and by doing

1127
01:36:02,320 --> 01:36:05,880
it that way no one is complaining and we don't have any downsides.

1128
01:36:07,240 --> 01:36:13,120
I think this approach which just has a small amount of tracking and this five-to-one ratio

1129
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:17,820
putting everything into one house has a lot of scalability.

1130
01:36:18,120 --> 01:36:23,280
Someone could come here with a small project and say I have ten homes I want to do and they

1131
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:27,260
can go to Allison and they can say I'd like to make two of those and you guys work out

1132
01:36:27,260 --> 01:36:32,700
a deal where you can do this on a small scale or a large scale of a large project or half

1133
01:36:32,700 --> 01:36:40,280
of a large project. I also think that transparency as I talked about is really good on both sides

1134
01:36:41,020 --> 01:36:47,840
in so that we as the builder developer group can show what we're doing and the city can see where

1135
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:50,340
that money is being spent and make sure that they're happy with that.

1136
01:36:51,860 --> 01:36:58,840
And then the last thing I kind of already hit was we've been adapting and changing, we're

1137
01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:03,780
actually on probably plan four now in the last four years on how to meet these targets.

1138
01:37:05,100 --> 01:37:12,220
But I do see at that 70% AMI, our pool of people is getting smaller and smaller.

1139
01:37:12,540 --> 01:37:15,160
I hope that the answer phrase don't go up even more.

1140
01:37:15,160 --> 01:37:21,860
If they do, there's going to be some point out there where I have to say, we no longer have a customer.

1141
01:37:22,500 --> 01:37:31,320
So we don't want to take your money, just charge us full amounts and we're not going to be able to do that affordable at this 70% AMI rate.

1142
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:36,220
Thank you, Jamie.

1143
01:37:36,640 --> 01:37:47,140
So I ran through some of the numbers very, very quickly because I don't think that we know that we have an issue that we have to deal with here and across the United States.

1144
01:37:47,140 --> 01:37:48,340
So none of that is a surprise.

1145
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:54,620
There are some numbers that were thrown out that are pretty basic and so the reason we're

1146
01:37:54,620 --> 01:38:00,200
really here tonight is to look at this as a pilot project and what we're going to do

1147
01:38:00,200 --> 01:38:01,380
about that 70%.

1148
01:38:01,380 --> 01:38:06,600
So I'm going to touch on briefly about that in a couple of slides from now and why this

1149
01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:10,760
program works and how we can look at this for higher AMIs.

1150
01:38:11,060 --> 01:38:15,200
I'm going to move to the accomplishments, what we haven't done and what we're in process.

1151
01:38:22,760 --> 01:38:29,260
I think some of the most significant code amendments that I have worked on since I have

1152
01:38:29,260 --> 01:38:36,260
been in the city were done in the last several years with the housing diversity and also the

1153
01:38:36,260 --> 01:38:38,640
affordable housing density incentives.

1154
01:38:38,900 --> 01:38:46,860
They have by far created the most impact and I think I was, they are the most exciting amendments

1155
01:38:46,860 --> 01:38:53,320
that I have been a part of, really, because that is truly the need of the community,

1156
01:38:53,760 --> 01:38:58,700
you know, right now, the concerns that we have heard or the cost of living in the affordability.

1157
01:38:59,620 --> 01:39:07,040
So, what we accomplished with the code amendment was to put into place some density incentives.

1158
01:39:07,540 --> 01:39:12,040
We worked very closely with the Affordable Housing Task Force.

1159
01:39:12,040 --> 01:39:19,460
that was pivotal, it was just instrumental in these amendments because it got the planning

1160
01:39:19,460 --> 01:39:26,900
office to speak with builders like Jamie and others that are out there on the field

1161
01:39:26,900 --> 01:39:30,840
trying to pound these homes out and trying to find their customers.

1162
01:39:31,900 --> 01:39:38,520
Often we're a little detached from what is happening in the market, but by working closely

1163
01:39:38,520 --> 01:39:43,540
with the affordable housing task force, we were able to identify the incentives that

1164
01:39:43,540 --> 01:39:49,400
would work, the incentives that were most important to them in facilitating getting

1165
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:54,300
that product, getting more of the affordable houses constructed.

1166
01:39:55,120 --> 01:40:02,700
And so we included in the code some increases for qualified, deed-restricted housing, and

1167
01:40:02,700 --> 01:40:06,680
And these could be implemented at administrative level.

1168
01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:14,860
And that truly has been one of the biggest excitement from these builders just to be able

1169
01:40:14,860 --> 01:40:17,300
to fast track things through the system.

1170
01:40:18,120 --> 01:40:23,640
We have put in incentives for existing plan new developments.

1171
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:30,280
These are developments that have been approved probably since the early 2000s to encourage diversity

1172
01:40:30,280 --> 01:40:39,320
in product types. A lot of these beauties were basically kind of zoned for 7,000 square

1173
01:40:39,320 --> 01:40:45,700
foot, 10,000 square foot lots, which is not what the environment is today. So we were

1174
01:40:45,700 --> 01:40:50,640
able to encourage density and kind of a tiered system based upon how many different product

1175
01:40:50,640 --> 01:40:58,080
types and housing types would be incorporated in there. We have introduced the cottage

1176
01:40:58,080 --> 01:41:04,900
development which is actually super excited and we're working right now with two developers that are

1177
01:41:04,900 --> 01:41:12,720
brunna bring in these cottage home products you know at a very attainable rate smaller lot sizes

1178
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:20,040
and we increased our size of the cottages and we had different fee waivers for these non-profit

1179
01:41:20,040 --> 01:41:25,860
and Allison will talk a little bit about that but so before I give the microphone over to Allison I

1180
01:41:25,860 --> 01:41:31,500
We didn't want to kind of bring something to light that Jamie didn't speak to is accessory

1181
01:41:31,500 --> 01:41:32,560
dwelling units.

1182
01:41:33,640 --> 01:41:43,580
Jamie's done an amazing job with incorporating ADUs into new greenfield type developments.

1183
01:41:44,200 --> 01:41:53,040
We have struggled with ADUs and they are such a fabulous housing type that can help home

1184
01:41:53,040 --> 01:41:59,960
buyers with income, kind of generating some income levels, it helps kind of some of

1185
01:41:59,960 --> 01:42:05,620
these, you know, transitional housing where you can kind of move into a smaller ADU and

1186
01:42:05,620 --> 01:42:12,580
free up your house for a rental. And there's so many different benefits, but we've struggled

1187
01:42:12,580 --> 01:42:18,820
with folks being able to, I think, afford to build those. And Jamie has introduced those

1188
01:42:18,820 --> 01:42:24,120
through the course of the code amendment by listening to some of these incentives into

1189
01:42:24,120 --> 01:42:29,160
his products out there, and they've been very, very successful, so that's another pilot

1190
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:34,060
project that I absolutely love and hope to kind of increase that a little bit more.

1191
01:42:36,400 --> 01:42:41,500
So I think that we're on the right track in terms of where we're going with these accomplishments.

1192
01:42:42,720 --> 01:42:48,020
Truly it started with the Affordable Housing Task Force, and honestly Leah Johnson pushing

1193
01:42:48,020 --> 01:42:54,340
to say, I recall Kerry gave her some ideas and she said, yeah, not feeling it.

1194
01:42:54,700 --> 01:42:57,540
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and do a little bit more work.

1195
01:42:57,700 --> 01:43:03,780
I know those weren't her exact words, but she really, really got, really got, um,

1196
01:43:03,880 --> 01:43:07,260
Kerry to push for creating this kind of density.

1197
01:43:07,760 --> 01:43:13,360
And one of the things that we're hoping to see is that the degree to which density alone

1198
01:43:13,360 --> 01:43:16,640
can produce naturally occurring affordable housing.

1199
01:43:17,340 --> 01:43:22,240
I think that it's something that a lot of communities are honestly being forced to work

1200
01:43:22,240 --> 01:43:26,060
on through a lot of legislation that we're going to talk about in just a minute, but

1201
01:43:26,060 --> 01:43:31,240
it can't be overstated the incredible accomplishment just in that.

1202
01:43:31,900 --> 01:43:37,080
One of the things that I didn't do on this slide is put the dollar value of the reducing

1203
01:43:37,540 --> 01:43:41,880
CEFs to half and we said we want to, or I said I want to see if we can put dollar values.

1204
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:44,140
That alone is a little over $8,000.

1205
01:43:44,140 --> 01:43:49,440
dollars, so the fees for the CES go down a little bit.

1206
01:43:50,540 --> 01:43:55,800
Now I'm going to look at the move to the items that weren't completed.

1207
01:43:56,020 --> 01:44:01,480
These were also recommendations of the Affordable Housing Task Force and Kerry, will you speak

1208
01:44:01,480 --> 01:44:02,500
to the first two of them?

1209
01:44:03,980 --> 01:44:04,260
Sure.

1210
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:11,680
We are always working on ADUs and the next item on your list also tonight, you know, I'll

1211
01:44:11,680 --> 01:44:17,920
I'll be talking more about some state provisions, ADUs, looking at the standards, trying

1212
01:44:17,920 --> 01:44:20,580
to open the door wider for that.

1213
01:44:21,180 --> 01:44:28,360
Right now, our accessory dwelling units, we do have a really great code standards that

1214
01:44:28,360 --> 01:44:33,060
have removed many of the barriers to develop the affordable housing.

1215
01:44:33,460 --> 01:44:37,880
These are barriers that other communities around us have continued to have.

1216
01:44:37,880 --> 01:44:42,500
So I've always felt like we have been on the forefront of ADUs in

1217
01:44:42,500 --> 01:44:48,740
Loveland. We also do not require capital expansion fees for those, which was

1218
01:44:48,740 --> 01:44:54,540
really unique, you know, in the state of Colorado. We still have some ways to go

1219
01:44:54,540 --> 01:44:59,980
that I will, you know, talk about in the next item. Other things that we're, you know,

1220
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:29,980
We're hopeful for it to look at some kind of prototypicals that we could do with builders, something to ease the path to get that product type more into Loveland. We have, when we continually open the door, and we're still not seeing a great interest because I think they're expensive. They're really expensive for the construction of those. We're lucky to have like Jamie incorporating them into

1221
01:45:29,980 --> 01:45:35,520
some more kind of new builds, which I think helps lessen the cost of those.

1222
01:45:36,060 --> 01:45:46,420
Since the UDC was actually was kind of in place in 2019, we have approved 38 permits

1223
01:45:46,420 --> 01:45:53,000
for accessory dwelling units, so that's kind of low, I feel like, in the last year we've

1224
01:45:53,000 --> 01:45:59,160
had two, so we're looking for ways, that's why this is like on our not completed list of

1225
01:45:59,160 --> 01:46:03,760
ways to increase those and encourage those and make the process a little bit easier.

1226
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:13,140
The third party services to expedite reviews, and this is something that we tried a long

1227
01:46:13,140 --> 01:46:18,680
time ago in the planning office is trying to see if there would be a way where we could

1228
01:46:18,680 --> 01:46:25,040
have some consultant firm come and almost be kind of a side planner to the office.

1229
01:46:25,040 --> 01:46:33,420
So when we did get kind of large caseloads, you know, developers could have the option to do a third party expedited review.

1230
01:46:33,860 --> 01:46:37,020
And that just honestly didn't work really well for us.

1231
01:46:37,140 --> 01:46:44,580
You know, every municipality has a code that is so unique to ours is unique to loved ones.

1232
01:46:44,760 --> 01:46:47,300
You know, unique to their community.

1233
01:46:47,300 --> 01:46:58,980
and trying to kind of educate, you know, a planner to be able to become effective at processing projects in any kind of an expedited manner.

1234
01:46:59,160 --> 01:47:04,560
It usually takes us, you know, about nine months to a year to get a planner up to speed.

1235
01:47:05,120 --> 01:47:12,040
And so that didn't seem like a cost savings for us, so that's something that we haven't, you know, looked at at all.

1236
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:23,480
But we are always looking at ways to have process improvements in the code, looking at ways to expedite things right now, any affordable housing project.

1237
01:47:24,080 --> 01:47:32,100
We do expedite it as much as we can, which means it goes to the top of the list, but our list is usually pretty full too.

1238
01:47:32,620 --> 01:47:40,660
So we do try to work with developers on that, they do not go on hold like some other projects do.

1239
01:47:40,660 --> 01:47:46,220
you and that truly has been an incentive for folks to at least pause and think about

1240
01:47:46,220 --> 01:47:48,920
incorporating affordable housing into their development.

1241
01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:55,920
The reason that these four items are on here is because part of tonight is making sure

1242
01:47:55,920 --> 01:48:02,520
that we go full circle with the original affordable housing task force presentation in 2022.

1243
01:48:02,520 --> 01:48:11,400
to. During that presentation, City Council really expressed a great deal of support for

1244
01:48:11,400 --> 01:48:18,620
having us work through each one of the recommendations and this will give you an update for all of

1245
01:48:18,620 --> 01:48:22,280
those recommendations, even though some of you weren't on the council then.

1246
01:48:23,360 --> 01:48:30,460
The last two are 10 million in equity and finding a way to build that up as a fund. It could

1247
01:48:30,460 --> 01:48:35,000
be used as a down payment assistant or for other uses and land banking and there's been

1248
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:36,100
no movement on those.

1249
01:48:36,940 --> 01:48:42,120
I'm going to move into in process and Jamie and I are going to sit back here and have

1250
01:48:42,120 --> 01:48:47,280
Nicole and Jim come out, come up here and talk briefly about the first two items.

1251
01:48:47,900 --> 01:48:54,560
For the in process list, these are the items that you will be seeing over the next six months.

1252
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:58,060
There are also items that will go back to the affordable housing task force.

1253
01:48:58,060 --> 01:49:04,020
We're going to start trying to build timelines around them, both so they'll be predictable for when you can see them.

1254
01:49:04,480 --> 01:49:13,660
And also because we have builders in the community who are interested in these items specifically to see what they can do to bring down the cost of building housing.

1255
01:49:29,290 --> 01:49:32,750
Good evening Madam Mayor and Councillors, Jim Lee's Utility Accounting Manager.

1256
01:49:33,470 --> 01:49:41,550
And I'm addressing the first bullet point which is that as part of our water and waste water rate study that we began last year.

1257
01:49:41,550 --> 01:49:49,050
part of the scope was to look at scalable impact fees for water, wastewater, and raw water.

1258
01:49:49,610 --> 01:49:52,270
And so we are working with our consultant on that.

1259
01:49:52,430 --> 01:49:55,370
Our consultant has looked at a number of different methodologies.

1260
01:49:56,010 --> 01:50:02,370
We are also doing a survey of other Northern Colorado water and wastewater utilities as

1261
01:50:02,370 --> 01:50:06,490
far as how they're going about scaling their impact fees.

1262
01:50:06,490 --> 01:50:16,590
And so the result of that will all be folded into this ultimate proposal for scaling the CEFs as well.

1263
01:50:17,410 --> 01:50:26,410
And also working with development services and IT to just make sure all of the aspects of implementing this are doable.

1264
01:50:31,400 --> 01:50:37,800
Good evening, my name is Nicole Hahn, I'm the City Engineer and we're working on developing

1265
01:50:37,800 --> 01:50:41,680
some small lot development standards, some more technical standards.

1266
01:50:42,040 --> 01:50:47,220
As you reduce the setbacks and all of the spatial needs that we have in traditional single

1267
01:50:47,220 --> 01:50:52,680
family homes, you have to fit all of the same utility functions, pedestrian accessibility,

1268
01:50:53,140 --> 01:50:54,760
landscaping into a smaller space.

1269
01:50:54,760 --> 01:51:01,620
and so we're taking a deep dive, our various teams of engineers, planners, maintainers, builders,

1270
01:51:02,140 --> 01:51:08,060
are working together to come up with new ways of looking at our space allocation for utility

1271
01:51:08,060 --> 01:51:14,740
services and more of the technical side to serve these small lots. So the benefit of this will be to

1272
01:51:14,740 --> 01:51:20,840
hopefully bring down some of the costs for developing housing and reduce the costs and still serve

1273
01:51:20,840 --> 01:51:33,400
community well. When Kerry brought the density changes in September of 2023, she started

1274
01:51:33,400 --> 01:51:39,940
getting phone calls from builders who were enthusiastic about the change and wanted

1275
01:51:39,940 --> 01:51:46,440
to know have more information in order to be able to build on smaller lots, et cetera.

1276
01:51:46,440 --> 01:51:49,840
We realize that there's a lot of work to do.

1277
01:51:50,220 --> 01:52:16,060
It feels right now like everything is in the air, from the way that we've done our affordable housing designations and what that means to what we did restrict and what we don't, to using Proposition 123 and meeting our quota there over three year period by building naturally occurring affordable housing, preferably without any incentives, likely without a deed restriction.

1278
01:52:16,060 --> 01:52:19,340
in order to bring money into the community in order to do that.

1279
01:52:20,180 --> 01:52:26,180
It definitely, one of the reasons why I didn't want to come here tonight is because there

1280
01:52:26,180 --> 01:52:28,580
are so many balls in the air to make this happen.

1281
01:52:29,300 --> 01:52:35,700
But having you understand that there are so many items that are being worked on simultaneously

1282
01:52:35,700 --> 01:52:37,640
I think is actually beneficial.

1283
01:52:39,000 --> 01:52:45,080
We do have builders like I said, who are willing to and wanting to go down this road.

1284
01:52:45,080 --> 01:52:53,680
We have to understand if we should work on any of the projects in the same way that we're working on Wilson Commons.

1285
01:52:54,580 --> 01:53:05,040
So, for example, they are, as Jamie said, putting all of the voucher money that they get from all five homes to reduce the cost of the fifth.

1286
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:09,360
At 70% AMI, Aspen Homes is also putting money into it.

1287
01:53:09,360 --> 01:53:17,300
They know, as Jamie said, that a home at 287 isn't truly affordable to somebody at 70% AMI,

1288
01:53:17,520 --> 01:53:24,780
but the families that are able to buy them are just relieved because it is such a great

1289
01:53:24,780 --> 01:53:27,880
home and it's the best thing on the market right now for them.

1290
01:53:28,840 --> 01:53:39,340
So under those circumstances, what would we be able to produce at 80% AMI at 90% and then

1291
01:53:39,340 --> 01:53:47,440
incentive having it be naturally occurring, being able to meet our proposition 123 commitment and bring in more money to build affordable housing into the community.

1292
01:53:51,040 --> 01:53:56,240
Last year, there was a lot of legislation that was passed around affordable housing.

1293
01:53:57,300 --> 01:54:09,460
Next carries going to talk about the residential occupancy limits and accessory dwelling units in the next presentation, but there are other items that are going to be key as well.

1294
01:54:09,460 --> 01:54:20,500
So minimum parking requirements, you're going to be hearing about that sometime in the future, so that there are not necessarily minimum parking requirements.

1295
01:54:20,640 --> 01:54:25,040
I have no idea what that's going to mean for most developments. I think most of us don't.

1296
01:54:26,020 --> 01:54:30,400
That there's a transit, you've probably heard of the transit-oriented communities.

1297
01:54:30,560 --> 01:54:37,860
I did find out that that doesn't apply to Loveland, but my hope would be that if we do build something that becomes transit-oriented,

1298
01:54:37,860 --> 01:54:42,980
that we could actually bring some money in for those sort of structures.

1299
01:54:43,580 --> 01:54:50,040
If you have something that's transit oriented, the goal would be to combine that in some way with the minimum parking standards,

1300
01:54:50,340 --> 01:54:54,640
so that you have something that where somebody could actually use public transportation,

1301
01:54:55,080 --> 01:54:59,100
they might not have to have a vehicle, so it has reduced costs for the family.

1302
01:54:59,560 --> 01:55:07,840
All of these items are designed to work together to make housing more cost effective for families around the state.

1303
01:55:07,840 --> 01:55:11,340
because certainly this isn't a lovelin thing, this is a state thing.

1304
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:30,840
And then affordable housing planning, which is now a requirement, I'm hoping that it comes with grant funding to do that, but I also am hoping that we can implement some of these items on our own to see what happens naturally by doing so before we are required to have a housing study.

1305
01:55:31,500 --> 01:55:39,340
And then the last thing is really, how are we going to pay for some of these items?

1306
01:55:40,380 --> 01:55:48,700
There are tax credits that became available from 2024, and the state again is looking

1307
01:55:48,700 --> 01:55:49,900
at pilot programs.

1308
01:55:50,440 --> 01:55:55,780
We have what I'm hoping will be considered free incentives, so we do have the increased

1309
01:55:55,780 --> 01:56:02,760
density and I am hoping that we can actually start to put some numbers around what the density

1310
01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:08,660
itself will do. What we're finding is that builders, one of the things that they really

1311
01:56:08,660 --> 01:56:14,620
want is fast-track. They want to be at the top of the pile. So in a way that's a free incentive.

1312
01:56:14,780 --> 01:56:19,180
It's not something that we would need restrict, but we can't have everybody doing it because

1313
01:56:19,180 --> 01:56:21,920
if everybody's at the top of the pile, then nobody is.

1314
01:56:21,920 --> 01:56:25,140
We have still the fee waiver program.

1315
01:56:25,900 --> 01:56:31,940
Again, I think that that should be tailored in the, so we have the methodology that we've

1316
01:56:31,940 --> 01:56:35,580
used forever for Habitat and the Loveland Housing Authority.

1317
01:56:36,020 --> 01:56:41,020
We have backfilled fees and we won't be able to do that going forward for the housing

1318
01:56:41,020 --> 01:56:45,100
authority with the loss of funding in the community housing development fund.

1319
01:56:45,420 --> 01:56:50,160
But we will still be able to show our support for them, which will be key for them to be

1320
01:56:50,160 --> 01:56:51,160
able to get tax credits.

1321
01:56:51,160 --> 01:56:55,260
If we don't do fee waivers with them, they're unlikely to be able to get tax credits.

1322
01:56:55,680 --> 01:56:59,040
We also utilize our private activity bonds for that.

1323
01:56:59,540 --> 01:57:04,800
So again, we have these two piles of, you know, these two categories of what I'm calling

1324
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:09,320
the free incentives and the ones where we actually created deed restriction.

1325
01:57:09,620 --> 01:57:13,320
This is also another area where we're trying to figure out what that looks like.

1326
01:57:14,920 --> 01:57:20,300
I do still think that, again, to say it again, we have so much work to do in each one of

1327
01:57:20,300 --> 01:57:28,540
these areas. So as we're walking through these as city staff come back to you for each

1328
01:57:28,540 --> 01:57:34,060
of these items, for decisions for you to make, we're hoping to be able to put these dollar

1329
01:57:34,060 --> 01:57:40,380
amounts so that you'll understand the value and what this can produce. We're hoping to

1330
01:57:40,380 --> 01:57:47,100
be able to continue to build out funding for our partners. We look at things like we aren't

1331
01:57:47,100 --> 01:57:50,680
really sure yet where Proposition 123 will get us.

1332
01:57:50,780 --> 01:57:52,780
I don't know of any organizations in

1333
01:57:52,780 --> 01:57:55,000
Loveland that have received any money so far.

1334
01:57:55,560 --> 01:57:59,100
So we still have this obligation to meet,

1335
01:57:59,180 --> 01:58:01,640
which is I think 83 homes a year,

1336
01:58:02,200 --> 01:58:07,360
and truly very little information from the state

1337
01:58:07,360 --> 01:58:08,980
as to how we report that.

1338
01:58:09,360 --> 01:58:12,480
But we're trying to set ourselves up so that we can access that.

1339
01:58:12,900 --> 01:58:14,860
We have other items on here,

1340
01:58:14,860 --> 01:58:23,680
like inclusionary zoning, which for me personally, I'd like to go down the road of giving out carrots first.

1341
01:58:23,980 --> 01:58:28,120
I think it's something that we can lean on as we get further along, should we need to.

1342
01:58:28,520 --> 01:58:34,280
But I'm really hoping that through the accomplishments that we've already talked about,

1343
01:58:34,400 --> 01:58:38,860
and through the things that we have in process, and being able to look at density,

1344
01:58:38,860 --> 01:58:46,060
that we can have builders excited to actually bring us naturally occurring affordable housing,

1345
01:58:46,300 --> 01:58:51,660
housing at 100% AMI and below without potentially even deed restricting it.

1346
01:58:52,240 --> 01:58:57,960
So, thank you for your time for us to give you quite a bit of information and are there any questions?

1347
01:58:59,000 --> 01:59:02,180
Could you remind me and probably our new counselors as well.

1348
01:59:02,180 --> 01:59:08,260
Well, what were the fee waivers that were given to Aspen homes to do the four at, you

1349
01:59:08,260 --> 01:59:12,940
know, all of the incentives go to one, but it's really five homes, one is affordable.

1350
01:59:13,800 --> 01:59:17,020
Yeah, could you go through that list of what we're waiving or reducing?

1351
01:59:17,840 --> 01:59:22,300
So I'm going to tell you what the process is, and then Jamie will talk to you about the

1352
01:59:22,300 --> 01:59:22,560
numbers.

1353
01:59:22,980 --> 01:59:23,220
Okay.

1354
01:59:23,420 --> 01:59:29,640
So the way the code was written before 2009, a builder would come in, a builder developer

1355
01:59:29,640 --> 01:59:34,500
would come in to get an affordable housing designation. They still do that. They complete

1356
01:59:34,500 --> 01:59:38,060
an application. They go to the Affordable Housing Commission and then they come to you,

1357
01:59:38,300 --> 01:59:44,580
thumbs up, thumbs down. We still do it exactly the same way. Before 2009, when that would

1358
01:59:44,580 --> 01:59:49,160
happen, it would lock in fees. By the way, we still lock in fees. Now we have a five-year

1359
01:59:49,160 --> 01:59:52,540
rolling lock. Back then, it would lock in the fees at a particular year.

1360
01:59:58,040 --> 01:59:59,520
So the Wilson

1361
01:59:59,520 --> 01:59:59,820
year 2000.

1362
02:00:02,120 --> 02:00:29,780
And that results, but the fees cost more than that now. So the difference in fees they don't pay. Does that make sense? Okay, so I'm going to turn it over to Jamie to talk about the numbers. So those numbers, I mean, so we take that in the beginning. I'll just kind of show you how much the costs have changed. When we started in 2021, we were taking only four permits because we needed

1363
02:00:29,780 --> 02:00:33,880
We only needed to get to a differential of about $65,000.

1364
02:00:35,580 --> 02:00:42,200
We were getting about $15,000 in fee reduction waiver on each house.

1365
02:00:42,540 --> 02:00:45,420
So you put those four in there, you get your house.

1366
02:00:45,800 --> 02:00:46,980
You get your affordable house.

1367
02:00:47,380 --> 02:00:52,900
As the costs went up, when we went through that huge change,

1368
02:00:53,120 --> 02:00:56,680
we were bringing up the price of the market rate homes, but

1369
02:00:56,680 --> 02:01:02,460
trying to keep all the affordables at the same rate or the same price because we knew where

1370
02:01:02,460 --> 02:01:10,680
that was. So eventually we had to go to a 5 to 1 ratio and then be at market rate. We're still

1371
02:01:10,680 --> 02:01:21,880
doing that and doing the 20%. That difference now is from 2021 to 2024. Some of the houses we're

1372
02:01:21,880 --> 02:01:25,400
We're producing at the higher rate, which is at the higher price.

1373
02:01:26,180 --> 02:01:29,340
We're getting waivers of up to $24,000 now.

1374
02:01:29,900 --> 02:01:33,420
So now that larger group of money is going towards the house.

1375
02:01:33,940 --> 02:01:36,500
On the last one, we just put in starting this new section.

1376
02:01:36,780 --> 02:01:41,740
The difference between the same paired house that's market rate and

1377
02:01:41,740 --> 02:01:44,780
affordable is $140,000.

1378
02:01:45,160 --> 02:01:49,400
The city's putting about $100,000 in waiver reduction in there.

1379
02:01:49,400 --> 02:01:55,360
And I will say that's kind of in kind money, that's not off the general ledger, that's

1380
02:01:55,360 --> 02:01:57,960
money that you didn't have before until the permit was pulled.

1381
02:01:58,680 --> 02:02:03,320
And we are still paying that $20,000 of permit fee.

1382
02:02:04,000 --> 02:02:09,760
And then in addition to that $100,000 the city's putting in ourselves and our team are putting

1383
02:02:09,760 --> 02:02:16,700
about $40,000 in to make that home affordable in the last income we could have had.

1384
02:02:16,700 --> 02:02:24,440
have we gone not doing affordable. So that's, they're big dollars and they're serious amounts of money, but that's what it takes to make affordable.

1385
02:02:25,200 --> 02:02:35,220
I want to add something to that. It's an opportunity cost for the city, and so there are going to be decisions that are going to have to be made.

1386
02:02:36,020 --> 02:02:44,640
It's a do we don't we? None of the fees that are waived for

1387
02:02:44,640 --> 02:02:51,880
the Wilson Commons homes are backfilled, which means they are not enterprise fees.

1388
02:02:53,020 --> 02:02:58,520
We are waiving or reducing the amount that we are getting in capital expansion fees

1389
02:02:58,520 --> 02:03:00,220
and permit fees, primarily.

1390
02:03:00,660 --> 02:03:06,920
They still have to pay the school fee, for example, but that doesn't affect us.

1391
02:03:07,840 --> 02:03:17,900
So we get less money from permits, we get less money in the capital expansion line items, and none of it is backfilled.

1392
02:03:18,020 --> 02:03:26,320
So it's an opportunity cost, just to keep in mind as we're talking about 80% AMI, 90% and 100% AMI.

1393
02:03:27,020 --> 02:03:29,720
All right, thank you, Councillor Foley.

1394
02:03:30,800 --> 02:03:32,000
Thank you.

1395
02:03:32,280 --> 02:03:38,520
I want to first just give a shout out to Jamie and kind of that out of the box thinking

1396
02:03:38,520 --> 02:03:47,120
to add the 80 use and making something that someone can use to help them buy and pay

1397
02:03:47,120 --> 02:03:53,100
for the home and that's an important aspect in a unique model.

1398
02:03:54,380 --> 02:03:59,480
And then looking at kind of what's occurred is you know pre-COVID you went from about

1399
02:03:59,480 --> 02:04:06,460
$186 per square foot up to $242 per square foot and then after things start coming back

1400
02:04:06,460 --> 02:04:10,460
down, you're still at $194 per square foot.

1401
02:04:12,120 --> 02:04:17,220
One of the big things that I got to take away here is the software.

1402
02:04:18,160 --> 02:04:24,400
And the software and the ease of doing business equates to savings from the developers and

1403
02:04:24,400 --> 02:04:27,340
the contractors that have to do the work with the city.

1404
02:04:28,040 --> 02:04:34,020
And I call it the pain in the butt fee, the harder it is to get things done, they're going

1405
02:04:34,020 --> 02:04:36,380
to factor that into the cost of their end product.

1406
02:04:37,120 --> 02:04:45,120
And so we can do a lot for affordability by truly upgrading the systems that we have

1407
02:04:45,660 --> 02:04:51,320
for our development services, our building department, those things that ease of doing business

1408
02:04:51,320 --> 02:04:52,620
will help lower the cost.

1409
02:04:52,620 --> 02:05:00,580
The other thing, you know, we did the lot size, the higher density, I

1410
02:05:02,690 --> 02:05:03,710
still haven't seen

1411
02:05:03,710 --> 02:05:11,650
us do where we're putting modulars in on owned property because the lots, so think

1412
02:05:11,650 --> 02:05:16,190
about a trailer park, but only it's not a trailer park, it's an HOA.

1413
02:05:16,810 --> 02:05:21,570
That everyone owns the lot and the trailer or the modular that they're homes on.

1414
02:05:21,570 --> 02:05:38,450
That increases density, increases homeownership, and those products are really relatively inexpensive to do, especially when it's mass-produced and you can get it set out.

1415
02:05:38,870 --> 02:05:42,690
So I think that's another opportunity. We've set it, but it hasn't caught on.

1416
02:05:42,690 --> 02:06:00,890
And I think we need to look at that and get a pilot of that, and really look at how that can help, because that puts people into ownership, not just a house, because as things are high, rent prices are just keep on going up.

1417
02:06:01,610 --> 02:06:09,890
Right? And then where ownership then is cheaper, but if you don't have the money to get into it, you're stuck in that perpetual renting.

1418
02:06:09,890 --> 02:06:15,810
which brings me to my last point, and Mayor Marshal and I have said this for several years now,

1419
02:06:16,630 --> 02:06:22,850
in terms of the apartments and the reason for building apartments versus condos,

1420
02:06:22,990 --> 02:06:32,030
a lot of that revolves around the construction aspect and that just to finish up my point here,

1421
02:06:32,030 --> 02:06:42,410
are condominiumizing these at the seven-year mark will help increase in economy

1422
02:06:42,410 --> 02:06:47,950
scale in basically the same box, call it an apartment or call it a condo, it's the same

1423
02:06:47,950 --> 02:06:53,950
box, only one is deeded to a person and the other is deeded to a single owner, so that

1424
02:06:53,950 --> 02:06:59,570
needs to be looked at as well is incentives to say it's only I've got to cut

1425
02:06:59,570 --> 02:07:04,370
you off. Councillor Olson. Thank you.

1426
02:07:05,690 --> 02:07:07,430
Do you want to thank you for being here?

1427
02:07:08,630 --> 02:07:19,010
Allison and Nicole. No, no. I can't read it. My glasses. Anyway, thank you for being here

1428
02:07:19,010 --> 02:07:22,430
and a lot of good stuff, just kind of curious,

1429
02:07:22,730 --> 02:07:26,930
as I look through the material on attachment three

1430
02:07:26,930 --> 02:07:30,270
in page one, it says, the focus and purpose of this study

1431
02:07:30,970 --> 02:07:32,790
is to make capital expansion fees

1432
02:07:32,790 --> 02:07:34,630
and raw water fees more equitable.

1433
02:07:36,820 --> 02:07:43,300
So as I go through the attachment two,

1434
02:07:43,420 --> 02:07:45,480
which is a regional housing study that was done

1435
02:07:45,480 --> 02:07:48,500
for the work group, they look at water costs,

1436
02:07:48,500 --> 02:07:55,320
cash and lose and not the only option we get more water dedication as well. There's a housing

1437
02:07:55,320 --> 02:08:01,040
price breakdown, there's development based approaches, community based approaches, partnership

1438
02:08:01,040 --> 02:08:07,700
based approaches. Out of all those, there's a lot of different, a lot of information has

1439
02:08:07,700 --> 02:08:17,600
provided. So my question is with all that, and if you look on page, let's see what was

1440
02:08:17,600 --> 02:08:20,240
that page six

1441
02:08:23,120 --> 02:08:27,360
of attachment three, it begins to break down by the different housing

1442
02:08:27,360 --> 02:08:32,560
types and so forth. There's a lot of costs and there's a lot of fees in there. So why

1443
02:08:32,560 --> 02:08:38,820
did you focus or why did the work group focus on just those two? CES and raw water.

1444
02:08:42,300 --> 02:08:50,940
That's a good question and that's the first bullet point item here and we're going to be

1445
02:08:50,940 --> 02:08:58,920
into that study a lot more. So whether or not we move past that, I don't know right now,

1446
02:08:59,460 --> 02:09:03,480
but we're going to go through every into that study to see where else there can be cost savings.

1447
02:09:03,780 --> 02:09:07,940
So the first thing we're starting with are the scalable CEFs and the water issues.

1448
02:09:08,820 --> 02:09:17,220
Well, and those are all city stuff. And it says in page 56, city can't do it on salt.

1449
02:09:17,220 --> 02:09:37,560
I don't. Must be a public private partnership. Right. So where's the the so right here? Yeah. Yeah. I know Jamie's doing something. But there's the point is there's a whole lot of other costs and fees and so forth in there that are described in detail in these different approaches.

1450
02:09:37,560 --> 02:09:40,560
So that will happen through the Affordable Housing Task Force.

1451
02:09:40,980 --> 02:09:46,760
What we're doing here is talking about what we can do from our side, and what we'll do

1452
02:09:46,760 --> 02:09:52,520
at the Affordable Housing Task Force is to continue to work with builders and developers

1453
02:09:52,520 --> 02:09:54,840
to say, how can they contribute?

1454
02:09:55,660 --> 02:10:01,920
And for tonight, what we're going to do is bring them all in to say how they could contribute,

1455
02:10:01,920 --> 02:10:09,240
But bring in Jamie from Aspen Homes because we have been actively working with him.

1456
02:10:09,560 --> 02:10:15,000
So, again, we're going to look at what can we do to help reduce the cost of building

1457
02:10:15,000 --> 02:10:18,000
and what are we doing as a pilot project?

1458
02:10:18,520 --> 02:10:20,460
We'll continue to take it to our office.

1459
02:10:20,600 --> 02:10:23,120
In fact, we have Level and Housing Authority with Bartner with.

1460
02:10:23,600 --> 02:10:26,300
And we also Bartner with Habitat for Humanity.

1461
02:10:26,300 --> 02:10:34,480
true. And Habitat, their homes are already affordable, 100% of the time. And with the housing

1462
02:10:34,480 --> 02:10:40,160
authority, and we'll have other items like I said, we're going to be doing this over

1463
02:10:40,160 --> 02:10:45,740
the next six months at least. And so we'll be working, we'll be bringing the housing

1464
02:10:45,740 --> 02:10:50,600
authority in at some point to say what's working for them and what's not working for them.

1465
02:10:50,600 --> 02:10:56,500
Now, if there's there are things that aren't working for them that we can't touch because

1466
02:10:56,500 --> 02:10:59,220
it has nothing to do with us, then we might not.

1467
02:10:59,460 --> 02:11:03,760
So for example, for the housing authority, one of the things that they need, the very

1468
02:11:03,760 --> 02:11:06,660
most from us, is our private activity bonds.

1469
02:11:07,260 --> 02:11:11,660
So I don't know a year that I've been here when we haven't allocated our private activity

1470
02:11:11,660 --> 02:11:12,420
bonds to them.

1471
02:11:12,780 --> 02:11:13,800
That's huge.

1472
02:11:14,520 --> 02:11:15,700
They need gap funding.

1473
02:11:16,060 --> 02:11:18,100
We're not going to be able to fill that gap funding.

1474
02:11:18,100 --> 02:11:20,240
And in fact, we're taking gap funding away.

1475
02:11:20,760 --> 02:11:28,120
So we'll bring these items back when there are decisions for you to make around CEFs and

1476
02:11:28,120 --> 02:11:33,960
having them be scalable, having water, raw water, and waste water be scalable, but also having

1477
02:11:33,960 --> 02:11:36,480
it remain revenue neutral.

1478
02:11:37,000 --> 02:11:39,580
So you'll have a part in this.

1479
02:11:40,060 --> 02:11:46,340
And at some point, I hope to put a pretty bow around it and bring everything in and say

1480
02:11:46,340 --> 02:11:58,180
We did this. We did this. We did this. We did this. We did this. Right. And this is the benefit and this is the benefit. And now this is what the private builder, private developer is able to do.

1481
02:11:58,460 --> 02:12:06,620
And what they are bringing in reference to what page 6, right. So what they're bringing to the table as well. Jamie.

1482
02:12:07,360 --> 02:12:31,920
I think, to your point, in the not too distant future, the task force will come here and give a very detailed explanation of that area, and benefits and way to move forward on that, and as a member of the task force, we are working on that, we're just not ready to come to you with that quite yet, but that'll be here and it'll be well documented and shown the benefits.

1483
02:12:33,180 --> 02:12:37,820
Two other things if I could throw in there, just to throw out, because everybody's

1484
02:12:37,820 --> 02:12:42,280
been talking about the ADU's a little bit, on that same single family lot, adding

1485
02:12:42,280 --> 02:12:48,720
ADU to a house that we already delivered and integrating them together, the additional

1486
02:12:48,720 --> 02:12:55,160
cost to the buyer at the end for that almost, I'm not going to forget the square footage

1487
02:12:55,160 --> 02:13:00,300
off top of my head, but it's a single family, a single bedroom, one car garage

1488
02:13:00,300 --> 02:13:05,940
attached to the house, making it look like a three-car ranch when it's a two-car

1489
02:13:05,940 --> 02:13:10,240
ranch with a three-bedroom and a one-car ranch with a one-bedroom. That one

1490
02:13:10,240 --> 02:13:16,840
bedroom, one-car ranch, was $180,000, so very affordable. So I do think the

1491
02:13:16,840 --> 02:13:20,920
ADU can be a great solution moving forward. There's something else but I don't

1492
02:13:20,920 --> 02:13:23,080
remember. All right, we're gonna move on to the next.

1493
02:13:25,380 --> 02:13:31,940
to respond to what you mentioned about the conduitization approach. I completely agree

1494
02:13:31,940 --> 02:13:36,400
with you. I've been trying to figure out how to do that for a long time. We have projects

1495
02:13:36,400 --> 02:13:44,220
that we'd like to move forward with doing affordable rental projects that meet all of the

1496
02:13:44,220 --> 02:13:48,840
affordable goals. And then after seven years when we can get away from that problem, then

1497
02:13:48,840 --> 02:13:49,780
and selling them off.

1498
02:13:50,380 --> 02:13:52,100
What I found is, at that seven years,

1499
02:13:52,240 --> 02:13:53,140
if they've been all rental,

1500
02:13:53,620 --> 02:13:56,780
you can't find a mortgage company to lend to you

1501
02:13:57,220 --> 02:13:59,840
if there's more than 50% rental.

1502
02:13:59,980 --> 02:14:01,520
No one wants to mortgage into that.

1503
02:14:01,660 --> 02:14:03,280
So we have to come up with a new mortgage product

1504
02:14:03,280 --> 02:14:04,420
to make that idea work.

1505
02:14:05,040 --> 02:14:06,200
Okay, thank you.

1506
02:14:06,500 --> 02:14:06,900
I'll help you.

1507
02:14:07,100 --> 02:14:07,560
I'll help you.

1508
02:14:08,460 --> 02:14:09,840
All right, Councillor Foley,

1509
02:14:09,980 --> 02:14:11,460
we're moving on to Councillor Crenning.

1510
02:14:12,160 --> 02:14:13,060
Thank you, Alison.

1511
02:14:15,160 --> 02:14:18,420
Is it possible that our efforts

1512
02:14:18,420 --> 02:14:25,840
at establishing affordable housing and unintended consequences that we are

1513
02:14:25,840 --> 02:14:31,660
driving up the cost of affordable housing. In the example, I'll use your five

1514
02:14:31,660 --> 02:14:34,780
home example and I'm not suggesting this is Aspen Homes but it could be

1515
02:14:34,780 --> 02:14:39,800
developer X. He's got five homes. One of them is going to be priced and I'm using

1516
02:14:39,800 --> 02:14:46,460
your slide number 11 I believe it is. The affordable price is $287,000. The

1517
02:14:46,460 --> 02:14:55,360
market price is $426,000. The difference is that's $139,000 difference. If you were to

1518
02:14:55,360 --> 02:14:59,220
to spread that $139,000 out over the four other homes.

1519
02:15:00,500 --> 02:15:13,460
Is it possible that developers are adding that extra $35,000 to the cost of the affordable home to subsidize basically the affordable home? So there are a couple of things that are, I think, are key in this area.

1520
02:15:15,620 --> 02:15:29,140
And these are things that I've thought about over quite some time. I'm cognizant of my three minutes. So if I have to just briefly, is it possible that we are an unintended consequences that we are driving the market homes prices up?

1521
02:15:31,240 --> 02:15:36,640
So, without going into a lot of detail so you can retain your three minutes, the only

1522
02:15:36,640 --> 02:15:40,380
way to really work through that is with a builder that you trust.

1523
02:15:40,780 --> 02:15:44,500
Okay, so it's possible that other builders maybe are doing that.

1524
02:15:44,640 --> 02:15:45,380
It's a concern of mine.

1525
02:15:45,720 --> 02:15:46,460
It is a concern.

1526
02:15:46,540 --> 02:15:47,300
It's a big concern.

1527
02:15:47,700 --> 02:15:54,500
Because that also is a concern of others that if our efforts to bring affordability to

1528
02:15:54,500 --> 02:15:59,260
loveland at the same time we're driving up the yep it's a big concern of mine okay

1529
02:16:00,600 --> 02:16:07,000
and with my last one minute i'm going to again um buttress up with uh counselor fully why aren't we

1530
02:16:07,000 --> 02:16:13,980
doing more i when i look at realtor.com there are 25 homes that fall under $350,000 all but two of

1531
02:16:13,980 --> 02:16:21,570
those are condos or what i would consider to be stackable or townhouses the other two if i add

1532
02:16:21,570 --> 02:16:28,350
mobile homes or modular homes it goes from 25 to about 38. What are we doing? Why aren't we

1533
02:16:28,350 --> 02:16:36,130
doing more to make modular products available for real ownership to get somebody into the ownership

1534
02:16:36,130 --> 02:16:43,770
market? I like that question a lot. To date I've only met with one group that is talking about doing

1535
02:16:43,770 --> 02:16:51,150
that. I loved the visuals of the homes. I loved the project. I loved every bit of it and then at

1536
02:16:51,150 --> 02:16:59,710
the very end, realize that they were talking about the typical with a lot rent and I loved it less at that point.

1537
02:16:59,890 --> 02:17:03,190
Is it our code that prevents the developer from coming in with that idea?

1538
02:17:03,370 --> 02:17:09,350
I mean, there was a project down near a campaign that started out on that track and it never came out of the ground.

1539
02:17:10,050 --> 02:17:14,850
So is it a code problem or is it a financial problem?

1540
02:17:14,850 --> 02:17:16,150
Let's see what Kerry has to say.

1541
02:17:23,220 --> 02:17:27,040
I see the clock is not running for me.

1542
02:17:28,560 --> 02:17:35,000
So we have made adjustments to the code, basically establishing smaller lot sizes and

1543
02:17:35,000 --> 02:17:38,380
that urban cottage that we didn't have before.

1544
02:17:39,080 --> 02:17:47,360
We had prior to the last round of amendments, we had our cottages set at 800 square feet

1545
02:17:47,360 --> 02:17:53,620
or less. And we just could not get anybody in the market that was interested in doing

1546
02:17:53,620 --> 02:18:00,200
a product like that. We had also some other cottages that were 600 square feet in less.

1547
02:18:00,660 --> 02:18:05,840
And they were actually smaller than our accessory dwelling units, which are 900 square feet. And

1548
02:18:05,840 --> 02:18:11,600
so we've made those adjustments. We have, you know, talked to developers about, you know,

1549
02:18:11,800 --> 02:18:16,880
what do they think they can sell? They didn't feel that they could, that at 800 square foot

1550
02:18:16,880 --> 02:18:19,960
but or less product was marketable to them.

1551
02:18:20,420 --> 02:18:23,200
They said that folks needed two bedrooms, at least,

1552
02:18:23,520 --> 02:18:24,780
was what they were looking for,

1553
02:18:25,220 --> 02:18:29,060
which is why we bumped that cottage up to the 1150

1554
02:18:29,060 --> 02:18:33,400
for this square footage to try to open the door more for that.

1555
02:18:33,940 --> 02:18:36,100
I think in terms of modulars,

1556
02:18:37,800 --> 02:18:41,620
I worked on a small project with the Housing Authority,

1557
02:18:41,640 --> 02:18:44,580
where they were looking at using some of their,

1558
02:18:44,580 --> 02:18:48,700
are kind of areas around some of their detention ponds,

1559
02:18:48,820 --> 02:18:53,700
putting in some kind of prefab, little small, tiny homes,

1560
02:18:54,000 --> 02:18:57,360
and it's just that, and we were really excited about it.

1561
02:18:57,780 --> 02:19:02,280
But the product wasn't there that was reliable

1562
02:19:02,920 --> 02:19:06,020
for them to actually get cost savings

1563
02:19:06,020 --> 02:19:09,660
from doing that versus a sick building at the time.

1564
02:19:09,840 --> 02:19:12,100
I think that every year, some of these modules

1565
02:19:12,100 --> 02:19:18,180
are getting better, these prefab kind of bring in on a kind of a truck.

1566
02:19:18,760 --> 02:19:22,600
They're getting better, but at that time, they definitely were not.

1567
02:19:23,920 --> 02:19:29,480
I think that the development in campaign that you're referring to,

1568
02:19:29,620 --> 02:19:37,380
that builder had looked at Loveland, and it's just, I think the land costs and

1569
02:19:37,380 --> 02:19:40,620
for structure costs for the product that he was looking at

1570
02:19:40,620 --> 02:19:44,700
just made it intrusible for him to develop that.

1571
02:19:45,200 --> 02:19:49,020
So, you know, with what Nicole was talking about

1572
02:19:49,020 --> 02:19:50,700
is these small lot standards

1573
02:19:50,700 --> 02:19:52,980
and trying to get all the utilities to work out

1574
02:19:52,980 --> 02:19:55,420
coupled with what Jim was talking about,

1575
02:19:55,420 --> 02:20:00,120
which is trying to get our fees aligned very equitably

1576
02:20:00,120 --> 02:20:03,620
with what you're using instead of every single family

1577
02:20:03,620 --> 02:20:06,260
having a standard C E F, you know,

1578
02:20:06,260 --> 02:20:08,980
when they're not using as much water, the smaller units,

1579
02:20:09,260 --> 02:20:11,100
they're not using, you're not taxing

1580
02:20:11,100 --> 02:20:12,640
onto our infrastructure as much.

1581
02:20:13,040 --> 02:20:15,200
I think when we start getting all of those down

1582
02:20:15,200 --> 02:20:18,580
to like the sweet spot, I think we'll get more interest.

1583
02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:22,160
I think we're working on a development right now

1584
02:20:22,160 --> 02:20:25,880
that is interested in cottages with detached garages

1585
02:20:25,880 --> 02:20:31,220
and ADUs on top in a very dense kind of urban environment.

1586
02:20:31,720 --> 02:20:34,360
So I think that the market is showing

1587
02:20:34,360 --> 02:20:41,120
that there is a need for that affordability and I think that they are responding with

1588
02:20:41,120 --> 02:20:44,880
new designs that we're seeing, you know, every day.

1589
02:20:47,710 --> 02:20:48,050
All right.

1590
02:20:48,230 --> 02:20:49,210
Councillor McThaw.

1591
02:20:49,330 --> 02:20:50,930
Oh, did you want to go ahead, Jay?

1592
02:20:51,310 --> 02:20:51,750
Good, Jayme.

1593
02:20:51,970 --> 02:20:52,250
Go ahead.

1594
02:20:52,670 --> 02:21:00,770
If I could also respond to your point about an unintended raising limit, I think you go back

1595
02:21:00,770 --> 02:21:04,110
to that team approach and I think you have to be careful who you include on your team.

1596
02:21:04,810 --> 02:21:10,470
But the builder should be able to work with the city well enough to prove where all that

1597
02:21:10,470 --> 02:21:12,050
money is going and that differential.

1598
02:21:12,430 --> 02:21:19,330
The only thing I would say is I don't know what market you can push up past the market

1599
02:21:19,330 --> 02:21:27,330
rate and it's a competitive market and for a small builder like myself we just don't have

1600
02:21:27,330 --> 02:21:33,650
any interest in trying to take too much in one step rather than stay alive.

1601
02:21:33,650 --> 02:21:38,590
If you take too much in one step, most people don't want to come to you.

1602
02:21:39,930 --> 02:21:45,950
We try to just have a very basic profit margin to keep us alive, and we go off of volumes.

1603
02:21:48,650 --> 02:21:52,150
And while everyone else is slowed down, we continue at the same rate.

1604
02:21:52,730 --> 02:21:54,950
And we're even in this tough market, we're doing that.

1605
02:21:55,110 --> 02:22:02,070
So I think the more builders you find with that like mindset, you can use this framework of that five to one

1606
02:22:02,070 --> 02:22:07,370
in a transparency where the actual city dollars are going.

1607
02:22:07,550 --> 02:22:09,230
There's just no extra to do anything with.

1608
02:22:09,430 --> 02:22:09,770
I understand.

1609
02:22:09,930 --> 02:22:13,070
And certainly don't take my comments as being geared towards you.

1610
02:22:13,090 --> 02:22:14,570
I think you're doing a wonderful job and glad you're here.

1611
02:22:15,250 --> 02:22:16,270
But you spread that out.

1612
02:22:16,510 --> 02:22:17,910
Instead of talking about five houses,

1613
02:22:18,070 --> 02:22:21,250
now talk about 25 houses and talk about a developer

1614
02:22:21,250 --> 02:22:22,430
that's in mass production.

1615
02:22:22,770 --> 02:22:26,090
And you could easily see where one could spread a $15,000

1616
02:22:26,090 --> 02:22:30,510
to $15,000 bump up to the market rate houses

1617
02:22:30,510 --> 02:22:32,270
to claim that they're building affordable houses.

1618
02:22:32,650 --> 02:22:35,810
Okay, and I'm going to cut this off just so we stay with our rules here.

1619
02:22:35,930 --> 02:22:37,050
Councillor McFarlane.

1620
02:22:37,810 --> 02:22:41,930
I totally appreciate Councillor Crenick staying within three minutes and getting 40 minutes

1621
02:22:41,930 --> 02:22:44,150
of answers. I think it works out perfectly that way.

1622
02:22:46,410 --> 02:22:49,470
Actually, going to you and he saved me some because he asked some of the questions I was

1623
02:22:49,470 --> 02:22:52,890
going to ask on that and that was the aspect and Jamie, you made a really good point in

1624
02:22:52,890 --> 02:22:56,650
there. When you said that, you know, part of it is funding from the city where we're

1625
02:22:56,650 --> 02:23:00,610
cutting back on the fees themselves, but part of it is on you as a developer saying,

1626
02:23:00,750 --> 02:23:05,210
I could have sold these at a greater price, but I'm not, and I think it's that trust

1627
02:23:05,210 --> 02:23:09,730
aspect out there that we take a look at and try and go from there, and along with that

1628
02:23:09,730 --> 02:23:13,210
same factor, I'm looking into why are we not getting into more of the current cotton

1629
02:23:13,210 --> 02:23:14,930
chomes out there, why are we not getting them out there?

1630
02:23:14,970 --> 02:23:19,330
And I get the fact that we've got to find the developers that are willing to really invest

1631
02:23:19,330 --> 02:23:22,810
in that and go that route with us and work that aspect.

1632
02:23:22,810 --> 02:23:30,110
But I am worried about some of the unintended consequences out there and the fact that how do we put the guard rails around those going there?

1633
02:23:31,030 --> 02:23:34,550
The other thing, you know, also one of the slides that you had in here is that you're looking at

1634
02:23:35,410 --> 02:23:40,210
possibly looking at lodging taxes for some of this and that being the

1635
02:23:41,470 --> 02:23:47,990
The liaison for the community mark. I think one of the areas you said you're looking at it lodging. It's one of your last slides

1636
02:23:47,990 --> 02:23:48,970
Yeah,

1637
02:23:53,450 --> 02:23:55,910
lodging tax increases, that concerns me.

1638
02:23:56,090 --> 02:23:59,510
I mean, on the lay as I'm for the community marketing commission, obviously they use

1639
02:23:59,510 --> 02:24:05,670
the lodging taxes itself and I'm hoping that if you're looking at that, you're having

1640
02:24:05,670 --> 02:24:09,850
a discussion with economic development, you're having a discussion with the, because they're

1641
02:24:09,850 --> 02:24:14,430
looking at some increases as well, but they're working with the hotel community out there

1642
02:24:14,430 --> 02:24:17,250
on this and not just raising the fees.

1643
02:24:17,250 --> 02:24:21,850
We would never do it in a vacuum. We have been talking with Marcy for quite some time.

1644
02:24:22,550 --> 02:24:27,530
This is on there because we've been having these conversations, not because it's necessary.

1645
02:24:27,850 --> 02:24:31,370
The necessarily something we're going to lean put our hat on.

1646
02:24:31,570 --> 02:24:36,250
Well, I appreciate you talking to Marcy, but I'd also appreciate you to be talking to the Canadian Marketing Commission as well.

1647
02:24:36,730 --> 02:24:40,210
She has been taking care of that aspect versus our just.

1648
02:24:40,290 --> 02:24:41,090
I haven't heard that.

1649
02:24:41,710 --> 02:24:42,510
Oh, okay.

1650
02:24:42,730 --> 02:24:44,370
And I said it every single one of those meetings.

1651
02:24:44,770 --> 02:24:46,590
Okay, I thought she had.

1652
02:24:46,590 --> 02:24:50,510
It may have made some come up in the past, but I just want to make sure that we are

1653
02:24:50,510 --> 02:24:51,030
talking to it.

1654
02:24:51,030 --> 02:24:54,710
There's been some change at that at that board, especially with the folks that are there

1655
02:24:54,710 --> 02:24:58,750
from Cindy Mack and to Marcy and just make sure that the communication is going there

1656
02:24:58,750 --> 02:25:02,550
because if we start losing that communication with our commissions, we lose that trust.

1657
02:25:02,870 --> 02:25:02,970
Yep.

1658
02:25:03,190 --> 02:25:04,010
And we lose that trust.

1659
02:25:04,190 --> 02:25:04,970
We lose the commissions.

1660
02:25:05,030 --> 02:25:06,390
And I don't want to see that happen.

1661
02:25:06,970 --> 02:25:07,370
Agreed.

1662
02:25:08,130 --> 02:25:08,650
Fair enough.

1663
02:25:09,810 --> 02:25:10,410
All right.

1664
02:25:12,090 --> 02:25:16,570
So I think, you know, you're obviously going to be coming back with round two of

1665
02:25:16,570 --> 02:25:22,350
this, so giving you some input into what I would like if possible, some type of information

1666
02:25:22,350 --> 02:25:28,830
study on what are the needs, how many senior housing units do we need, how many single

1667
02:25:28,830 --> 02:25:35,270
persons, somebody just out of college, or somebody out of a trade school, young families, so we

1668
02:25:35,270 --> 02:25:40,450
get a grasp of how many categories we need, so we know what we need to incentivize.

1669
02:25:40,450 --> 02:25:50,230
so we target. And when we talk about incentives, no metro districts, no URAs, they don't get incentives, they've already got enough of their own.

1670
02:25:51,790 --> 02:26:04,310
You know, but focus on what our actual needs is and incentivize what we actually need. And I would do it in the form of a moratorium on certain fees, you know, work with our city manager.

1671
02:26:04,310 --> 02:26:07,550
or what, you know, it's in revenue that we're not going to receive.

1672
02:26:07,550 --> 02:26:13,250
It's not that we're back filling out revenue that, a moratorium that is designed to encourage

1673
02:26:13,250 --> 02:26:15,930
developers to bail now when we need it.

1674
02:26:16,530 --> 02:26:18,570
And it decreases over time.

1675
02:26:18,730 --> 02:26:22,830
If you're going to get something built in five years, you're going to get that whole incentive.

1676
02:26:23,370 --> 02:26:25,330
If it's going to take you 10, it's going to have reduced.

1677
02:26:26,210 --> 02:26:29,950
If you take longer to get it done, you're going to have a declining benefit.

1678
02:26:30,210 --> 02:26:32,070
Those are just some suggestions I have.

1679
02:26:33,710 --> 02:26:34,750
Councillor Foley.

1680
02:26:36,090 --> 02:26:36,730
Thank you.

1681
02:26:37,330 --> 02:26:42,330
I'm going to just follow up because I don't really think Councillor Crennion's question

1682
02:26:42,330 --> 02:26:42,930
was answered.

1683
02:26:44,250 --> 02:26:49,930
And that is about modular homes and mobile homes, nuts and bolts.

1684
02:26:51,110 --> 02:26:55,150
What's the problem with them and why are they not specifically designated in our code so

1685
02:26:55,150 --> 02:26:56,150
that people can put them in?

1686
02:26:56,150 --> 02:27:03,330
So we do have in the UDC mobile homes and an allowance for those.

1687
02:27:04,630 --> 02:27:11,410
So that's something that we can certainly reach out to developers and inquire about that.

1688
02:27:11,770 --> 02:27:17,210
But we do have that category and we do have those standards in the code.

1689
02:27:18,090 --> 02:27:20,470
We're just not getting inquiries about those.

1690
02:27:20,630 --> 02:27:24,590
We're not getting anybody that is coming in to request to do those.

1691
02:27:24,590 --> 02:27:33,190
I mean, we're really seeing cottages coming in, but they're kind of the stick-built, but

1692
02:27:33,190 --> 02:27:39,130
we would treat a manufactured home the same as we would a stick-built as well.

1693
02:27:39,810 --> 02:27:45,470
But it is in there, and happy to look at those standards, you know, and kind of troubleshoot

1694
02:27:45,470 --> 02:27:45,970
those.

1695
02:27:46,310 --> 02:27:48,030
Just right now, we're not getting the question.

1696
02:27:48,030 --> 02:27:55,290
To me, that's a missing, that's a missing inventory, a missing diversity of product that's there.

1697
02:27:55,490 --> 02:28:00,130
I mean, you can, you can drive around Lovelin and you can still see some of the old mobile home parks.

1698
02:28:00,330 --> 02:28:07,690
Now, granted, they may not be the most pleasant things when they are as old as they are, but they still work.

1699
02:28:08,970 --> 02:28:14,410
And, and people rehab them and they're fine, they're, they're a fine product.

1700
02:28:14,410 --> 02:28:21,570
And so, what was done back then, what we have now, maybe even better, better insulation,

1701
02:28:22,050 --> 02:28:27,350
it's just overall a better product and so, you know, when you really sit and think about affordability

1702
02:28:27,350 --> 02:28:34,470
and thinking about where to really place our limited resources that we have,

1703
02:28:34,830 --> 02:28:39,850
maybe it's putting it in there so that we can increase ownership, increase our inventory.

1704
02:28:39,850 --> 02:28:57,230
Instead of a hard stick bill, you know, and I understand it's just a product that's missing and I think that gives a lot of people some opportunity for attainability and affordability.

1705
02:28:58,310 --> 02:29:02,070
Councilmember Foley, I thought I'd just chime in just briefly, good evening.

1706
02:29:03,150 --> 02:29:07,930
The PUD or the planning unit development option would also be attractive.

1707
02:29:07,930 --> 02:29:13,210
I think if you had a developer come in who was interested in that concept, that would

1708
02:29:13,210 --> 02:29:17,110
allow you to, whatever the standards are, and I haven't familiarized myself, I don't know

1709
02:29:17,110 --> 02:29:22,490
if I have to look at them, but to the extent that those were an obstacle, the PUD process

1710
02:29:22,490 --> 02:29:31,690
would provide that developer with and out to ensure that there is a method or a vehicle

1711
02:29:31,690 --> 02:29:39,710
by which that type of development could occur in our city, particularly in sort of a

1712
02:29:39,710 --> 02:29:40,990
green field type environment.

1713
02:29:41,250 --> 02:29:42,510
So I just thought I'd add that little bit.

1714
02:29:43,430 --> 02:29:44,830
All right Councillor Black.

1715
02:29:45,530 --> 02:29:46,450
Thank you Madam Mayor.

1716
02:29:46,450 --> 02:29:52,850
So what I'm hearing you say and correct me if I'm wrong is that you don't have developers

1717
02:29:52,850 --> 02:29:57,970
coming to you that want to do develop that kind of product.

1718
02:29:58,170 --> 02:29:58,710
Am I correct?

1719
02:29:58,950 --> 02:29:59,170
Correct.

1720
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:27,620
We can't force anybody to do it. We can have our UDC codes. We can have everything set up to where they have a chance to go through all of this and get an approval. We don't have anybody interested. So, is that typical in our area that, so is it this, is it the profit margin? I mean, my husband is a small builder too. He keeps his profit margin. We've never, but we're not ambitious people.

1721
02:30:27,620 --> 02:30:38,680
So, um, but a lot of people are and their profit margin is a hell of a lot bigger than my husband's and likely Mr. Sabin's and so is that the problem?

1722
02:30:39,200 --> 02:30:44,920
We have developers that want to large of a profit margin and just aren't willing to do this.

1723
02:30:50,440 --> 02:30:52,420
I can't speak to that directly.

1724
02:30:52,420 --> 02:31:01,980
What I can speak to is that the developers we're working with right now, with the things that have been put in place with UDC code.

1725
02:31:03,040 --> 02:31:06,480
Everybody's starting to think very much more outside the box.

1726
02:31:07,060 --> 02:31:12,500
Even in our project and the file stages, we're going to come into the city with something that they haven't seen before.

1727
02:31:12,780 --> 02:31:20,900
That we think is going to be amazing and make everything affordable in that section without

1728
02:31:21,680 --> 02:31:25,080
without needing any city money involved.

1729
02:31:25,640 --> 02:31:30,740
So the flexibility that the city's providing is really helping all of those things happen.

1730
02:31:31,380 --> 02:31:33,920
I think everybody has their niche and what they're used to.

1731
02:31:34,260 --> 02:31:34,780
You know?

1732
02:31:35,360 --> 02:31:37,060
So you do what you know how to do.

1733
02:31:37,960 --> 02:31:45,160
But we're thinking really outside the box and I think everybody else is too because the market is very hard.

1734
02:31:45,160 --> 02:31:52,540
So, I think in the next couple of years, you're going to see people coming to you with more and more dynamic ideas.

1735
02:31:53,140 --> 02:31:57,700
And the thing I would say is if the city can't, if it's a well-thought-out idea,

1736
02:31:58,280 --> 02:32:01,400
and you embrace those dynamic ideas in the coming years,

1737
02:32:01,820 --> 02:32:06,720
we can continue to chip away real quickly and strongly at this affordability issue.

1738
02:32:07,080 --> 02:32:10,000
But that has to be that team approach that goes back and forth.

1739
02:32:10,000 --> 02:32:36,800
I'm sure there's someone out there that hears this conversation and is going to go, all right, I'll be that guy, but it's not me, and it's not the guy that I'm working with, but we are thinking way outside the box and thinking about doing very non-traditional things, and if the city can come to us, but we're trying to make sure it fits within the neighborhood, build continuity.

1740
02:32:36,800 --> 02:32:36,980
Really?

1741
02:32:37,260 --> 02:32:39,500
Real quick, Jamie, for my seconds.

1742
02:32:40,120 --> 02:32:45,940
So on the Affordable Housing Task Force, Leah, everybody, do we have a builders that

1743
02:32:45,940 --> 02:32:49,020
are involved in that that want to do this type of building?

1744
02:32:52,500 --> 02:32:54,960
They're prepared to have a smaller profit margin.

1745
02:32:55,340 --> 02:32:59,440
We have builders, Jamie's on the Affordable Housing Task Force.

1746
02:32:59,600 --> 02:33:05,420
We have several other builders who are talking about it, but I'm not just talking about it.

1747
02:33:05,760 --> 02:33:06,360
We don't know yet.

1748
02:33:06,640 --> 02:33:09,200
We don't know yet.

1749
02:33:09,200 --> 02:33:10,520
Thank you for your time.

1750
02:33:11,820 --> 02:33:11,960
All right.

1751
02:33:12,020 --> 02:33:14,680
And we have other builders who are inquiring.

1752
02:33:16,200 --> 02:33:17,080
Councillor Olson.

1753
02:33:19,180 --> 02:33:21,160
I want to get you to think like an accountant.

1754
02:33:22,100 --> 02:33:24,180
You know, debit's credits pluses and minuses.

1755
02:33:24,800 --> 02:33:28,120
So many times the presentations that were brought before us,

1756
02:33:28,480 --> 02:33:29,940
we get a lot of the debits.

1757
02:33:30,040 --> 02:33:34,240
We get a lot of the pluses, but we don't necessarily see the minuses.

1758
02:33:34,580 --> 02:33:37,560
They've been, some of them been addressed to as consequences.

1759
02:33:37,560 --> 02:33:45,180
For instance, in density on page 54, it says,

1760
02:33:45,720 --> 02:33:49,280
where market demand exceeds maximum zoning densities,

1761
02:33:49,780 --> 02:33:53,660
densities, bonuses are powerful to leverage that

1762
02:33:53,660 --> 02:33:56,920
and they do not come at a cost to the municipalities.

1763
02:33:57,920 --> 02:33:59,200
And I would take issue with that.

1764
02:34:00,180 --> 02:34:02,300
In case density, you increase traffic.

1765
02:34:02,980 --> 02:34:05,580
You increase the need for additional police protection,

1766
02:34:05,580 --> 02:34:08,880
and fire protection, utilities, and so forth.

1767
02:34:09,660 --> 02:34:18,960
So the excised taxes that are mentioned in that handout,

1768
02:34:20,450 --> 02:34:22,320
that's shifting the costs to somebody else.

1769
02:34:24,370 --> 02:34:30,320
The inclusionary zoning, while other residents in the development pay.

1770
02:34:30,320 --> 02:34:35,240
I experienced that directly in Maryland with an inclusionary zoning.

1771
02:34:35,980 --> 02:34:43,560
I paid an additional fee to cover for the affordable homes that were built in our development.

1772
02:34:43,920 --> 02:34:50,980
So what I'd like to see is us to try to make an effort to say, okay, here's the positives.

1773
02:34:51,220 --> 02:34:52,300
What are the drawbacks?

1774
02:34:53,980 --> 02:34:58,300
Because if there's some unintended consequences or there's some negatives from this,

1775
02:34:58,300 --> 02:35:07,420
how are we going to address those are we shifting costs to somebody else there's no free lunch I mean

1776
02:35:07,420 --> 02:35:15,060
somebody's got to pay for this if it's if it's the city we're for sacrificing some of our fees

1777
02:35:15,060 --> 02:35:21,760
and the city's paying because now we can't use that money for what we're going to do for the city so I

1778
02:35:21,760 --> 02:35:26,760
just ask as we go forward on not only this project because some of the other stuff that comes before

1779
02:35:26,760 --> 02:35:34,080
Council if we look at well what are some of the the things we might have to address that we're are following through cracks

1780
02:35:35,620 --> 02:35:36,740
Councillor Crenning

1781
02:35:36,740 --> 02:35:46,210
Going back to my mobile home modular home manufactured home theme when I when I plug that into the realtor.com

1782
02:35:46,210 --> 02:35:51,070
The affordability affordable houses ago from 25 to 45 so it almost doubles and

1783
02:35:52,110 --> 02:35:57,790
You are seeing what they are classifying is mobile homes selling for a hundred and forty five thousand dollars

1784
02:35:58,170 --> 02:35:59,670
and yet still paying lot rent.

1785
02:36:01,770 --> 02:36:04,470
So while we don't have anybody knocking on the door,

1786
02:36:04,670 --> 02:36:07,490
I would question why is somebody knocking on the door?

1787
02:36:08,450 --> 02:36:10,250
And if we ever had a discussion

1788
02:36:10,250 --> 02:36:12,530
with a manufactured home dealership

1789
02:36:12,530 --> 02:36:14,390
and ask them what would it take for you

1790
02:36:14,390 --> 02:36:16,190
to envision a project in Lublin

1791
02:36:16,750 --> 02:36:20,350
and get the feedback, is it really, is it code, is it cost?

1792
02:36:21,390 --> 02:36:23,890
Is it just nobody wants to be bothered

1793
02:36:23,890 --> 02:36:25,910
with subdividing up a piece of land

1794
02:36:25,910 --> 02:36:33,170
and putting 18 manufactured homes on it there's got to be more to it than nobody's knocking

1795
02:36:33,170 --> 02:36:33,810
on the door.

1796
02:36:34,270 --> 02:36:38,870
People are making profits selling manufactured and modular homes.

1797
02:36:39,270 --> 02:36:44,610
I can't imagine that a developer couldn't work in tandem with a manufacturer and build

1798
02:36:44,610 --> 02:36:50,050
an affordable project because when you look at these homes and this originally probably sold

1799
02:36:50,050 --> 02:36:54,910
But this modular home originally probably sold for less than $20,000.

1800
02:36:55,490 --> 02:37:00,810
And now it has experienced the same appreciation skyrocket that everybody else has enjoyed.

1801
02:37:01,790 --> 02:37:08,230
To get somebody into something that they own and can be a benefactor of the equity or

1802
02:37:08,230 --> 02:37:15,370
the prices go up to benefit from that is where it needs to start.

1803
02:37:15,770 --> 02:37:18,010
So now you can have a minute and a half.

1804
02:37:18,010 --> 02:37:22,790
When I cut people off, it's not because I'm trying to cut them off, it's because of the three minutes.

1805
02:37:23,250 --> 02:37:26,730
I want you to think more like a lawyer, yes or no, is the only answer I'm looking for.

1806
02:37:26,790 --> 02:37:29,410
I am talking to, I have been talking to a group about that.

1807
02:37:29,630 --> 02:37:30,710
Okay, and what are you hearing?

1808
02:37:31,570 --> 02:37:37,270
I haven't, the last time I met with them, it's been quite a few months, and as far as I know, they're still in.

1809
02:37:39,010 --> 02:37:39,970
Looking at loved ones.

1810
02:37:40,250 --> 02:37:40,370
Yeah.

1811
02:37:41,550 --> 02:37:45,570
And I would like to hear when you come back with the mayor's list of things she wants to hear.

1812
02:37:45,570 --> 02:37:50,870
I'd like to hear what incentives we could be offering them, and not necessarily dollars incentives,

1813
02:37:51,630 --> 02:37:56,730
but breaks in our code or whatever we can do to attract something like that.

1814
02:37:56,890 --> 02:37:59,070
I really think that's a missing element.

1815
02:37:59,510 --> 02:38:03,150
Agreed, but making sure that they can also afford the lot rent.

1816
02:38:04,190 --> 02:38:06,170
Not rent, I'm talking about own the grant.

1817
02:38:06,270 --> 02:38:13,510
So I've never had anybody, I know, I already know that that's, I've never had anybody approach to sell.

1818
02:38:13,510 --> 02:38:17,710
Let me, Jamie, before he could in my last 25 seconds, because the Merrill cut me off,

1819
02:38:17,810 --> 02:38:18,690
she won't cut you off.

1820
02:38:19,370 --> 02:38:25,530
Fort Collins was successful in converting at least one, if not two, of the mobile home

1821
02:38:25,530 --> 02:38:28,710
parks on Harmony Road into owned properties.

1822
02:38:30,130 --> 02:38:33,950
And is there, is it possible we could follow in those steps?

1823
02:38:35,150 --> 02:38:37,150
Now you got free reigns.

1824
02:38:39,570 --> 02:38:39,990
So.

1825
02:38:40,390 --> 02:38:42,330
But they own it and they can sell it for the whole thing.

1826
02:38:42,330 --> 02:38:45,650
Okay, Jamie and Alice and tackle that question.

1827
02:38:45,890 --> 02:38:49,210
So I, yes, and there is money to do that.

1828
02:38:49,670 --> 02:39:00,010
And so it requires that one, it's for sale, obviously, and two, that the occupants

1829
02:39:00,010 --> 02:39:04,010
they form a coalition and their groups to help them, one of them is called Thistle.

1830
02:39:05,010 --> 02:39:07,810
And then they need to go out and raise the money.

1831
02:39:08,210 --> 02:39:11,630
And I did talk to a group here years ago.

1832
02:39:11,630 --> 02:39:13,090
and they were trying to do that.

1833
02:39:13,230 --> 02:39:15,030
And I don't believe they were able to pull it off.

1834
02:39:16,950 --> 02:39:18,770
Amy, you had an answer as well.

1835
02:39:19,170 --> 02:39:22,750
I'm just gonna give you a pragmatic response

1836
02:39:22,750 --> 02:39:24,610
to why it's not happening in my opinion.

1837
02:39:25,190 --> 02:39:27,090
And to be honest, I've never even thought about it

1838
02:39:27,090 --> 02:39:29,190
in my little world before tonight.

1839
02:39:29,830 --> 02:39:30,410
There you go.

1840
02:39:30,790 --> 02:39:31,230
There's problems.

1841
02:39:31,770 --> 02:39:33,590
So there's one thing solving a problem.

1842
02:39:33,990 --> 02:39:40,430
But I would say that myself and the people I work with

1843
02:39:40,430 --> 02:39:53,150
would be terrified to bring that project to review, but before City Council based on what we've seen other projects go through, if you look at Sugar Creek, what they went through

1844
02:39:53,930 --> 02:40:03,430
and how difficult and the outrage that came out because of they were talking about doing some affordable and some smaller stuff, I just wouldn't even try.

1845
02:40:03,430 --> 02:40:10,270
That's just me, and I believe in affordability like no other, like I want it, but I can't see

1846
02:40:10,270 --> 02:40:14,850
winning that process to be honest with you. I can't see you happening. I would love to do it.

1847
02:40:15,110 --> 02:40:19,290
If I thought it would be accepted, you know, we'd put some time into it, but I can.

1848
02:40:21,830 --> 02:40:28,050
I'm just saying, I think that's where a lot of your problem is, is the nimbyism in the city is high,

1849
02:40:28,050 --> 02:40:34,610
Okay. And that affects affordable housing, too. I hate to say it that way, but I think it's a reality.

1850
02:40:34,810 --> 02:40:36,710
I can't sugarcree count a lot more issues than affordable housing.

1851
02:40:36,710 --> 02:40:39,250
Okay. All right. Councilor Samson.

1852
02:40:41,500 --> 02:40:46,820
Thank you. Jamie, I just can't even agree more with you about that than the NIVISM that is.

1853
02:40:48,480 --> 02:40:53,140
It's an interesting situation because a lot of the individuals who are, you know,

1854
02:40:53,380 --> 02:40:57,560
hollering about affordable housing are the same individuals who are like, yeah, but not there.

1855
02:40:57,560 --> 02:41:01,900
But not like that though, that's not how you solve it, but not in that place and not

1856
02:41:01,900 --> 02:41:02,560
with that many people.

1857
02:41:03,920 --> 02:41:10,300
So it needs to be a more broad, sorry, it needs to be a more broad conversation for sure

1858
02:41:10,300 --> 02:41:15,060
and something that we have a better, more positive engagement about, I think is a city.

1859
02:41:15,260 --> 02:41:20,900
So I would love for not that you guys aren't already doing a ton of amazing work and are

1860
02:41:20,900 --> 02:41:24,680
busy busy busy at the affordable housing task force.

1861
02:41:24,680 --> 02:41:30,920
But if you could also maybe bring back some talking points that you would encourage for us to share and that in other individuals across the city can share

1862
02:41:32,500 --> 02:41:42,060
about affordable housing, about these cottages, about ADUs, about manufactured homes, about, you know, some of these solutions and these diverse solutions, and how we can start kind of changing that narrative.

1863
02:41:42,640 --> 02:41:52,260
Because you have that information on that task force in particular, the information you have that task force has is just incredible and your personal experience is incredible too.

1864
02:41:52,260 --> 02:41:59,140
so I think that would be a great way to start hopefully shifting the way people proceed affordable housing.

1865
02:42:00,380 --> 02:42:05,820
And then the other thing I want to bring up to was, and I think the mayor touched on this and that is targeting.

1866
02:42:06,900 --> 02:42:18,760
So like, who needs the houses? So as a mom of two young girls, I often look at these affordable rents, these affordable houses.

1867
02:42:19,520 --> 02:42:25,060
And I see very, very few that are three bedroom or even four bedroom.

1868
02:42:25,540 --> 02:42:26,860
I'm the oldest of four kids.

1869
02:42:27,580 --> 02:42:35,060
I'm, you know, like big families is something that, you know, growing up we had a lot of friends who had big families.

1870
02:42:36,240 --> 02:42:38,920
So, I mean, a three bedroom really isn't even that big.

1871
02:42:39,400 --> 02:42:47,220
Is it that when you start to have more kids, generally, if you're, if you were already at an AMI where you would have afforded like when, you know,

1872
02:42:47,220 --> 02:42:50,860
that have reduced the portable houses in your neighborhood.

1873
02:42:51,080 --> 02:42:53,980
For example, Jamie, is it when you start to have more kids

1874
02:42:53,980 --> 02:42:57,440
than you kind of are qualified for a different level

1875
02:42:57,440 --> 02:42:57,840
of AMI?

1876
02:42:57,940 --> 02:43:00,180
Is that why we're not seeing more of like the three bedroom

1877
02:43:01,000 --> 02:43:03,500
versus, you know, like, or more of the four bedroom

1878
02:43:03,500 --> 02:43:06,280
versus like the three and two that you know of?

1879
02:43:06,340 --> 02:43:08,540
I mean, where did, how did you land on three?

1880
02:43:09,260 --> 02:43:11,260
And are you, do you have intention of doing more?

1881
02:43:11,400 --> 02:43:13,520
And what do you think the consensus is across, you know,

1882
02:43:13,600 --> 02:43:14,960
for builders and developers across the city

1883
02:43:14,960 --> 02:43:18,080
to increase like bedroom side or bedroom count.

1884
02:43:22,960 --> 02:43:24,380
That window of who can-

1885
02:43:24,380 --> 02:43:26,400
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, before you finish, sorry.

1886
02:43:26,740 --> 02:43:27,880
And is there a need for that?

1887
02:43:28,000 --> 02:43:28,980
Or is that just my perception?

1888
02:43:29,460 --> 02:43:29,920
Okay, I'm done.

1889
02:43:32,840 --> 02:43:36,620
One of our goals is to provide homes for young families

1890
02:43:37,500 --> 02:43:38,900
and young and growing families.

1891
02:43:39,240 --> 02:43:42,520
And those families on what they can afford right now,

1892
02:43:43,320 --> 02:43:45,240
if you build into a bigger home,

1893
02:43:45,660 --> 02:43:48,000
you're going outside of that income bracket

1894
02:43:48,000 --> 02:43:49,800
where they can afford it, unfortunately.

1895
02:43:50,440 --> 02:43:53,220
So even at the three-bedroom home,

1896
02:43:55,200 --> 02:43:57,620
the small family, the young family,

1897
02:43:57,640 --> 02:43:59,420
that's topping out where they can do

1898
02:43:59,420 --> 02:44:00,440
and what we're doing currently.

1899
02:44:01,060 --> 02:44:03,700
I think it's for future product mixes and things like that.

1900
02:44:05,040 --> 02:44:06,600
Okay, that makes a lot of sense.

1901
02:44:06,760 --> 02:44:08,040
Do you know if there's a need?

1902
02:44:08,920 --> 02:44:10,780
It's, I'm sure there's a need,

1903
02:44:11,120 --> 02:44:16,370
but not a need that qualifies for what the requirements

1904
02:44:16,370 --> 02:44:24,990
the requirements of that 70% AMI, and what they can afford to purchase versus the cost of building a traditional home that way.

1905
02:44:25,570 --> 02:44:28,250
Right. I understand. Okay. Thank you very much.

1906
02:44:28,610 --> 02:44:30,750
Thank you. Councillor Light Kobach.

1907
02:44:31,090 --> 02:44:35,710
Thank you. And going back to the idea of the modular homes in the trailer parks,

1908
02:44:36,510 --> 02:44:40,250
I understand that we don't have builders that are interested in going down that road.

1909
02:44:40,810 --> 02:44:45,210
Or if they are, they're not looking for the person to own the land,

1910
02:44:45,210 --> 02:44:50,190
maybe just the trailer. Could we do a little outside of the box thinking, though, and could that be

1911
02:44:50,190 --> 02:44:56,850
something that the City of Loveland does with Prop 123 money? Could we land bank and craft modular homes?

1912
02:44:57,670 --> 02:44:59,530
You know, is that something once we figure out?

1913
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:29,060
Where is this money coming to us? Is that a possibility? I've had that thought in this conversation. I would hesitate to say yes because I don't know how to install curbs and gutters personally. It would take a lot more than that. We would have, yes, there's the land banking and then there's finding somebody to build the infrastructure and that's probably the harder part and I don't, we'll see. Okay. Something to think about. Thank you, Alison.

1914
02:45:30,180 --> 02:45:37,980
Okay, we will open up public comment on this item. Is there anyone in chambers that wishes to give public? I'm not surprised you're coming up, Leah.

1915
02:45:43,420 --> 02:45:44,300
Good evening.

1916
02:45:45,300 --> 02:45:53,060
Council, Leah Johnson. I live in Ward 3, but I have facilitated the affordable housing task force for the last four years.

1917
02:45:53,060 --> 02:46:01,600
And there's just a couple of things I want to say, one, when we started on this,

1918
02:46:01,920 --> 02:46:05,060
the goal was how do we create more units of housing?

1919
02:46:05,980 --> 02:46:08,200
We, it is a supply and demand challenge.

1920
02:46:08,420 --> 02:46:11,540
We do not have enough supply to meet the demand simply.

1921
02:46:12,020 --> 02:46:16,260
That's not to oversimplify this very complex problem, but that's where we're at.

1922
02:46:16,920 --> 02:46:22,020
And so all of the things you've heard tonight over the last couple years that we've been working

1923
02:46:22,020 --> 02:46:26,880
not, started from this very systematic, what are all of the things that we could possibly

1924
02:46:26,880 --> 02:46:32,600
do to help create more housing? Now, it doesn't mean that any one of these stand alone

1925
02:46:32,600 --> 02:46:39,420
is solving the problem. It's all of these things combined that are incentivizing the private

1926
02:46:39,420 --> 02:46:44,720
sector to come to Leveland and build the right kinds of units. And I think as we move forward,

1927
02:46:44,900 --> 02:46:49,760
that's the most important thing is making sure that whatever we're doing and this conversation

1928
02:46:49,760 --> 02:46:51,860
about modular homes is really important too.

1929
02:46:52,160 --> 02:46:56,780
Whatever we're doing is encouraging more of the right kinds of units,

1930
02:46:56,900 --> 02:46:59,880
which means we get out of this ideal of single-family zoning.

1931
02:47:00,660 --> 02:47:01,920
And it's just a reality.

1932
02:47:02,620 --> 02:47:05,560
I mean, I grew up in Loveland, and I say this all the time.

1933
02:47:05,760 --> 02:47:07,680
This is not 1990s Loveland anymore.

1934
02:47:08,580 --> 02:47:11,660
We cannot develop our community through single-family zoning

1935
02:47:11,660 --> 02:47:15,220
and accommodate the demand that is out there to ensure

1936
02:47:15,220 --> 02:47:16,600
that people have affordable housing.

1937
02:47:16,600 --> 02:47:19,160
We can't. You can't live in

1938
02:47:19,160 --> 02:47:20,660
loveland and say you don't want

1939
02:47:20,660 --> 02:47:22,180
density, but you also want

1940
02:47:22,180 --> 02:47:23,600
affordable housing. We don't get

1941
02:47:23,600 --> 02:47:26,120
that luxury. And so I think it's

1942
02:47:26,120 --> 02:47:27,460
really important as we look at

1943
02:47:27,460 --> 02:47:29,940
this to remember that. And so all

1944
02:47:29,940 --> 02:47:31,740
of these efforts were, you know,

1945
02:47:31,820 --> 02:47:35,480
put together to create incentives

1946
02:47:35,980 --> 02:47:37,560
for the private sector to create

1947
02:47:37,560 --> 02:47:39,140
the right kinds of units. And there's

1948
02:47:39,140 --> 02:47:41,360
still a lot of work to do. And I

1949
02:47:41,360 --> 02:47:43,580
do really want to commend all of

1950
02:47:43,580 --> 02:47:45,220
city staff over the last couple

1951
02:47:45,220 --> 02:47:47,020
years, we've pushed them hard.

1952
02:47:49,060 --> 02:47:53,420
You know, the task force has really said, let's think outside

1953
02:47:53,420 --> 02:47:58,080
the box, let's go bigger, let's go different, let's do things differently. And in some

1954
02:47:58,080 --> 02:48:03,440
cases, we were ahead of the state on a lot of that because we were having those tough conversations

1955
02:48:03,440 --> 02:48:09,080
about how do we do things differently. And you know, I think that has been the role of the task

1956
02:48:09,080 --> 02:48:14,680
force. And there are many private sector folks on that who have come in and out over the years,

1957
02:48:14,680 --> 02:48:21,200
who want to be part of the solution and and they really do and so you know we have partners from

1958
02:48:21,200 --> 02:48:25,320
poor Collins and partners here in Loveland and there are there are people who want to be part of

1959
02:48:25,320 --> 02:48:31,860
the solution so I think that that's really important to remember and while I won't be here after

1960
02:48:31,860 --> 02:48:38,260
December leading the task force any longer I know that they will keep pushing city staff Jamie will

1961
02:48:38,260 --> 02:48:43,980
I'm going to pass that baton to Jamie to ensure we're thinking outside the box to create

1962
02:48:43,980 --> 02:48:45,660
the right kinds of housing for loved ones.

1963
02:48:46,000 --> 02:48:46,540
Hang on, Leah.

1964
02:48:46,940 --> 02:48:47,960
Councillor McFarland.

1965
02:48:48,100 --> 02:48:48,760
Do you have a question?

1966
02:48:49,000 --> 02:48:49,720
A clarifying question.

1967
02:48:49,720 --> 02:48:51,300
I have a clarifying question though.

1968
02:48:51,820 --> 02:48:56,400
So Leah, could you clarify who the Affordable Housing Task Force is and why it's so important?

1969
02:48:57,320 --> 02:48:57,460
Yes.

1970
02:48:57,840 --> 02:49:04,660
So the Affordable Housing Task Force was created under the love and housing authority back

1971
02:49:04,660 --> 02:49:10,960
in 2021 kind of directive by the mayor and other folks says how do we get more voices to the table

1972
02:49:10,960 --> 02:49:16,960
to solve this challenge. We recognize that the housing spectrum is vast. I mean everywhere

1973
02:49:16,960 --> 02:49:25,660
from homelessness to 120 percent AMI, that's a big area to cover. So the affordable housing

1974
02:49:25,660 --> 02:49:30,720
task force has really taken on that both qualified affordable housing and the deed restricted affordable

1975
02:49:30,720 --> 02:49:35,520
housing, but really then looking at market rate housing and how do we generate more

1976
02:49:35,520 --> 02:49:40,720
what they call naturally occurring affordable housing, and that's really something that

1977
02:49:40,720 --> 02:49:46,220
someone between say 70 and 100% AMI can afford for home ownership purposes.

1978
02:49:46,760 --> 02:49:52,560
And that's always been the goal, is really that home ownership part, because as you all

1979
02:49:52,560 --> 02:49:57,820
are discussing tonight, that is so critically important to ensuring someone becomes part

1980
02:49:57,820 --> 02:50:02,840
of the community and and is able to build that equity and their own wealth. And in many cases

1981
02:50:03,700 --> 02:50:08,680
that's that's their savings account over time. And so that's been a key emphasis is really

1982
02:50:08,680 --> 02:50:14,620
that 70 to 100 percent AMI and creating more market rate units with the work with Carey and

1983
02:50:14,620 --> 02:50:20,480
the development department and that sort of thing. We have now ventured into where your lodging

1984
02:50:20,480 --> 02:50:26,980
tax thing comes in. As we've created a funding grid of all of the options that are available that

1985
02:50:26,980 --> 02:50:33,040
we know of now, no, there's more, you know, we're all for creativity, so if you've got more ideas,

1986
02:50:33,240 --> 02:50:39,340
that's great too. So because what we also know is we need money, we need money to create more

1987
02:50:39,340 --> 02:50:45,440
qualified affordable housing, we need money to support programs like Jamie's and so how are we going

1988
02:50:45,440 --> 02:50:51,560
to come up with those funds? So we were looking at, you know, like I said, it's a vast grid, which at

1989
02:50:51,560 --> 02:50:56,320
some point I imagine we'll come back to you all next year as well, of how do we potentially fund

1990
02:50:56,980 --> 02:51:00,540
various projects whether they're de-restricted or, you know,

1991
02:51:01,360 --> 02:51:07,400
or not. All right. Thank you, Leah. Is there additional public comment from inside chambers?

1992
02:51:10,170 --> 02:51:12,930
All right. Sterling, do we have any phone in public comment?

1993
02:51:15,060 --> 02:51:20,360
Thank you, Mayor Marsh. Users, if you would like to speak to this item, please use the raise your hand

1994
02:51:20,360 --> 02:51:20,720
feature.

1995
02:51:26,590 --> 02:51:31,290
And I do not have any phone in public comment or users with raised hands. All right.

1996
02:51:31,290 --> 02:51:36,490
We'll close public comment not seeing any other lights on want to thank you all for being here

1997
02:51:36,490 --> 02:51:39,330
And I know there's a lot of supportive staff in the background as well

1998
02:51:39,990 --> 02:51:43,470
Look forward to the next session with you. All right

1999
02:51:43,470 --> 02:51:51,330
We will take a break until 9 p.m. And then we'll go to our last item when we return. We are in recess

2000
03:06:23,090 --> 03:06:53,070
We are reconvened as level and city council study session. We begin our last item on tonight's agenda, item 2.3, from development services, presenter that says carry, but it's actually Bob Paulson, UDC code, amendment discussion based on House bill 24-1007, residential occupancy and House bill 24-1152, accessory dwelling units and carry has joined us. Welcome both of you.

2001
03:06:53,070 --> 03:06:54,010
Thank you and take it away.

2002
03:06:56,600 --> 03:06:57,380
Thank you.

2003
03:06:58,340 --> 03:07:01,540
My name's Carrie Berset and I'm with the Planning Office.

2004
03:07:02,300 --> 03:07:09,100
Tonight I am going to be talking about a couple of the house bills that were recently approved by the state.

2005
03:07:09,580 --> 03:07:12,460
And those house bills both affect land use and

2006
03:07:12,460 --> 03:07:14,900
affects the standards of the UDC.

2007
03:07:15,800 --> 03:07:21,340
So right now I'm currently working on some code amendments that would align

2008
03:07:21,340 --> 03:07:28,240
those house bills kind of align our UDC with those house bills. And so that is why I'm here before you tonight

2009
03:07:28,240 --> 03:07:34,720
because some of those land use kind of bills. They do have some kind of policy choices

2010
03:07:34,720 --> 03:07:40,060
that I want to discuss and hopefully get some kind of

2011
03:07:40,060 --> 03:07:44,760
guidance and some feedback from council that I can use in preparing those code amendments.

2012
03:07:45,340 --> 03:07:51,300
Okay, so the format of the the meeting tonight I'm going to go through just a really quick overview of both of those

2013
03:07:51,300 --> 03:07:58,240
house bills. And then we'll take them one at a time. In your staff can memorandum that

2014
03:07:58,240 --> 03:08:03,100
you have in your packet. I tried to outline those house bills and put some of the various

2015
03:08:03,100 --> 03:08:09,940
options so we can talk about those. And then lastly, we talk about some terminology updates

2016
03:08:09,940 --> 03:08:12,900
that the state is using and go to next steps.

2017
03:08:16,600 --> 03:08:19,220
So to begin with the two house bills that

2018
03:08:19,220 --> 03:08:26,260
that we're talking about tonight are House Bill 24107 and House Bill 241152.

2019
03:08:26,980 --> 03:08:30,920
Both of those have a goal of increasing affordable housing.

2020
03:08:31,500 --> 03:08:37,280
House Bill 107 is a prohibition on residential occupancy limits,

2021
03:08:37,820 --> 03:08:41,960
and then the other House Bill focuses on our accessory dwelling units.

2022
03:08:42,740 --> 03:08:46,720
So from Nicole's presentation earlier tonight and

2023
03:08:46,720 --> 03:08:52,680
And talking about the local concerns of our citizens that have always been some affordable

2024
03:08:52,680 --> 03:08:58,020
housing, the cost of living in the community, those concerns have also risen at a state

2025
03:08:58,020 --> 03:08:58,460
level.

2026
03:08:58,960 --> 03:09:05,000
And so the state has in these implementation of these land use bills have indicated that

2027
03:09:05,000 --> 03:09:12,160
affordable housing and the cost of living throughout the entire seat of Colorado is of concern.

2028
03:09:12,160 --> 03:09:15,040
So they have become involved in land use.

2029
03:09:15,560 --> 03:09:21,160
Allison talked about that there's five land use bills that have been approved.

2030
03:09:21,740 --> 03:09:23,660
I'm only taking two of these tonight.

2031
03:09:24,040 --> 03:09:30,900
That just means you'll see me more in the coming months, probably with other adjustments to the code that we need to do.

2032
03:09:31,660 --> 03:09:39,900
But both of these house bills focus on opportunities and removing barriers from the zoning code that would support

2033
03:09:39,900 --> 03:09:44,220
just alternative housing and accessory dwelling units.

2034
03:09:45,660 --> 03:09:51,640
So, as I mentioned, you know, aligning the UDC with these house bills is extremely important.

2035
03:09:52,000 --> 03:09:56,100
The first house bill for the residential occupancy, it's already in effect.

2036
03:09:56,640 --> 03:09:58,480
It went to effect in July.

2037
03:09:59,120 --> 03:10:01,600
And so, that's something that we're not enforcing.

2038
03:10:02,040 --> 03:10:05,000
We're not, you know, implementing any of those occupancy standards.

2039
03:10:05,000 --> 03:10:11,460
the other house bill has an effective date of June 30th of 2025.

2040
03:10:12,180 --> 03:10:15,820
So we need to get our codes all in line with these house bills.

2041
03:10:16,360 --> 03:10:22,820
The three policy items that I'm seeking feedback on tonight are related to these.

2042
03:10:22,980 --> 03:10:26,480
One is what do we do with our boarding house category?

2043
03:10:27,540 --> 03:10:33,340
Whether we implement the design standards for accessory dwelling units and some existing PUDs

2044
03:10:33,340 --> 03:10:38,900
And then we'll talk about should the code be updated to kind of align with some terminology

2045
03:10:38,900 --> 03:10:42,480
that the state is now using regarding the word family.

2046
03:10:45,550 --> 03:10:48,490
Okay, so we're going to roll up our sleeves with this first one.

2047
03:10:48,510 --> 03:10:50,930
This is the residential occupancy limit.

2048
03:10:51,470 --> 03:10:57,790
This new law eliminates the local restrictions on the number of unrelated individuals that

2049
03:10:57,790 --> 03:10:59,310
can live in a dwelling unit.

2050
03:11:00,550 --> 03:11:04,510
This is really a zoning kind of code item only.

2051
03:11:04,510 --> 03:11:10,050
This does not affect any provisions that would be health and safety, you know, for occupancy

2052
03:11:10,050 --> 03:11:10,750
in a structure.

2053
03:11:10,970 --> 03:11:15,250
So any building code, any fire code is still applicable and would be applied.

2054
03:11:15,590 --> 03:11:19,990
This is purely a zoning type of an allowance.

2055
03:11:20,750 --> 03:11:29,850
So some of you were on City Council previous back in 2021 when we were focused on our occupancy

2056
03:11:29,850 --> 03:11:30,230
limits.

2057
03:11:30,610 --> 03:11:31,290
Remember that.

2058
03:11:31,410 --> 03:11:32,530
I remember that.

2059
03:11:32,530 --> 03:11:35,950
And planning was that's true, and planning a mission.

2060
03:11:36,610 --> 03:11:41,410
Yes, so that was part of a larger code amendment package that we brought through

2061
03:11:41,410 --> 03:11:49,730
that talked about how to increase our occupancy, which at the time was three unrelated individuals.

2062
03:11:50,110 --> 03:11:56,850
How could we open the door to five, which is what we settled on, but it is still an occupancy limit.

2063
03:11:56,850 --> 03:12:03,190
So that was limiting it to five individuals that were unrelated and a household once you

2064
03:12:03,190 --> 03:12:06,990
hit six or more, you'd be classified as a boarding house.

2065
03:12:07,170 --> 03:12:10,270
Those two land uses are very intertwined together.

2066
03:12:10,930 --> 03:12:18,950
I do need to do like a quick shout-out to many of your counselors, Mayor and counselor Samson

2067
03:12:19,310 --> 03:12:26,070
who I recall I was sitting here at that study session and both of you were saying, why do

2068
03:12:26,070 --> 03:12:36,530
we need occupancy standards and I explained a lot of how these land use codes are so entangled

2069
03:12:36,530 --> 03:12:42,250
with what's a boarding house, what's a multiplex, what's multifamily, you know, it's single

2070
03:12:42,250 --> 03:12:47,930
family and that it was extremely complicated and so could we not just open the door a little

2071
03:12:47,930 --> 03:12:54,490
and make the bar higher without having to go through the code and try to untangle some

2072
03:12:54,490 --> 03:13:01,470
these land use categories. So in hindsight I probably should have said let's do away with the

2073
03:13:01,470 --> 03:13:07,130
occupancy standard and then I could be here very proud that we were you know we got here before

2074
03:13:07,130 --> 03:13:13,350
the state did but unfortunately that was not the case and I'm back before you to talk about

2075
03:13:13,350 --> 03:13:20,570
the occupancy standard and what we need to do. So the implications of the house bill on the UDC

2076
03:13:20,570 --> 03:13:25,590
C is number one, the occupancy standard needs to be removed, so that's just something

2077
03:13:25,590 --> 03:13:31,010
that is definitely going to be done, but what do we do with the boarding house category?

2078
03:13:31,350 --> 03:13:38,270
So our boarding house category indicates kind of, it is linked with that occupancy.

2079
03:13:38,790 --> 03:13:45,370
So it says in there by definition that anyone over that occupancy limits are going to be

2080
03:13:45,370 --> 03:13:47,710
considered that boarding house land use.

2081
03:13:47,710 --> 03:14:10,830
So we have two choices and the choice for the code amendment is either eliminate the boarding house category or we need to redefine it so that we set up some parameters that are not associated with occupancy because it's that occupancy that the state is not allowing any kind of standards with that.

2082
03:14:10,830 --> 03:14:11,810
So

2083
03:14:15,680 --> 03:14:18,380
to begin with, what is a boarding house?

2084
03:14:18,820 --> 03:14:23,440
You know, boarding houses in our code, which is kind of a form-based code.

2085
03:14:23,840 --> 03:14:29,960
You know, it talks about that these are typically they look like from the outside a single family house.

2086
03:14:31,280 --> 03:14:40,180
They have shared kitchens, they have shared living spaces, and really where they differ is how the structure is rented.

2087
03:14:40,180 --> 03:14:51,660
So in a traditional kind of conventional standard house, you would kind of lease out the house in itself as kind of a one lease type of a situation.

2088
03:14:52,300 --> 03:14:57,040
With the boarding houses, the leases are individual for the bedrooms.

2089
03:14:57,040 --> 03:14:59,980
rooms. So each bedroom would have a-

2090
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:28,440
The specific lease that would be very unique, you could lease out that for a week, you could lease it out for a month, but each of those bedrooms would contain their own lease. That really is the difference between that kind of a standard rental versus what a boarding house is. Some of the benefits of these boarding houses is that the rooms are often furnished and they often are present like a lower cost of living than going to an apartment.

2091
03:15:28,440 --> 03:15:34,720
So it is part of an affordable housing, kind of the dynamics of different housing types.

2092
03:15:35,640 --> 03:15:42,100
So we have a couple options in here for Council to kind of think about as we prepare the

2093
03:15:42,100 --> 03:15:42,720
code amendment.

2094
03:15:43,200 --> 03:15:47,820
And the first option is the option that the staff is recommending.

2095
03:15:48,380 --> 03:15:53,080
And that would be to just eliminate the land use of a boarding house.

2096
03:15:53,080 --> 03:15:57,120
There are certain advantages to doing that.

2097
03:15:57,240 --> 03:16:02,340
Like right now, we're aware of one rooming house in Loveland.

2098
03:16:02,640 --> 03:16:05,600
It is kind of the rooming house on 7th Street.

2099
03:16:06,100 --> 03:16:08,540
That isn't approved boarding house in the city.

2100
03:16:09,560 --> 03:16:10,760
There are probably others.

2101
03:16:11,760 --> 03:16:18,300
I think there's a lot of popularity, a lot of movement going with kind of co-living housing arrangements.

2102
03:16:18,300 --> 03:16:24,100
at the code amendment hearing, some of you may have remembered we had some kind of some

2103
03:16:24,100 --> 03:16:26,420
members of the public saying, well, I do that.

2104
03:16:26,900 --> 03:16:28,320
You know, I rent out my bedrooms.

2105
03:16:28,600 --> 03:16:32,600
It's a option that they have as many benefits.

2106
03:16:32,780 --> 03:16:39,520
One, it's more affordable and there's a lot of social benefits too with a co-housing arrangement

2107
03:16:39,520 --> 03:16:41,160
that's something that's pretty new.

2108
03:16:41,840 --> 03:16:48,280
I think it's just becoming more popular as the cost of living has raised in the community

2109
03:16:48,280 --> 03:16:50,720
people are seeking at this alternative type.

2110
03:16:51,700 --> 03:16:55,260
So by eliminating the boarding house as this separate use,

2111
03:16:55,640 --> 03:17:02,000
really we would be essentially kind of supporting that housing type in traditional single family homes.

2112
03:17:02,540 --> 03:17:05,820
So we would not distinguish it by an occupancy.

2113
03:17:06,300 --> 03:17:10,460
We would really just say if that house was built and looks like a single family house,

2114
03:17:10,980 --> 03:17:15,740
we have no restrictions with the house bill on how many people can live there.

2115
03:17:15,740 --> 03:17:23,920
And that would say that, and we don't care whether you rent the whole house out, or you're renting individual rooms, it really functions the same way.

2116
03:17:24,980 --> 03:17:37,580
The other advantages to just eliminating that as a land use category, I've listed them in bullets here, is that it would open the door for another housing type in a traditional neighborhood.

2117
03:17:38,160 --> 03:17:44,240
Right now, a boarding house in our low density residential zones do require planning commission approval.

2118
03:17:44,240 --> 03:17:50,140
So that's the neighborhood meeting, that's the planning commission, and a lot of times

2119
03:17:50,140 --> 03:17:55,540
that does, you know, there's uncertainty with the process and I do think that that either

2120
03:17:56,240 --> 03:18:01,380
discourages transition to that type of a housing arrangement or people just really don't

2121
03:18:01,380 --> 03:18:06,580
come through our process and may just go ahead and convert kind of homes that way.

2122
03:18:07,120 --> 03:18:12,600
So it would legalize kind of housing option that we're very aware is occurring in the community.

2123
03:18:13,580 --> 03:18:19,520
All of the provisions, once again, of safety building code that would still apply, this

2124
03:18:19,520 --> 03:18:23,480
is truly just a zoning requirement that would be removed.

2125
03:18:24,420 --> 03:18:29,700
Now, there may be some disadvantages as well to removing that category that we want to

2126
03:18:29,700 --> 03:18:30,420
think through.

2127
03:18:30,960 --> 03:18:36,400
Some of those are that, you know, in traditional single-family houses, you know, it's not a

2128
03:18:36,400 --> 03:18:43,560
land use that is really expected, it does have more transient type leases, you know, where

2129
03:18:43,560 --> 03:18:48,780
you're there a week or a month, as opposed to like a year lease of a household.

2130
03:18:49,480 --> 03:18:56,000
That could be, could create concerns in a single-family house, off-street parking, generally

2131
03:18:56,340 --> 03:19:02,120
when we receive a call that has anything to do with occupancy, it's really based upon

2132
03:19:02,120 --> 03:19:07,400
There's too many cars parked on the street or cars parked in front of my house

2133
03:19:07,400 --> 03:19:14,680
So obviously there's too many people that are in that structure. That's just where we see that complaint come from

2134
03:19:14,680 --> 03:19:25,000
It does add more parking. I mean it adds more you know cars, you know our public streets do allow parking but

2135
03:19:25,000 --> 03:19:31,960
But our boarding house category requires off-street parking spaces.

2136
03:19:32,620 --> 03:19:37,960
And while I've labeled that as a disadvantage, it's kind of a toss-up.

2137
03:19:38,680 --> 03:19:44,760
It does, our boarding house parking requirements are based upon a space per bedroom that you

2138
03:19:44,760 --> 03:19:45,120
have.

2139
03:19:45,660 --> 03:19:51,380
And that means you have to find some kind of a parking spot on the lot, in the garage,

2140
03:19:51,380 --> 03:19:57,960
driveways, extra driveways kind of paving some of the areas. And that, in a sense, does

2141
03:19:57,960 --> 03:20:03,640
create a different character in the neighborhood. And so, allowing like that on-street parking

2142
03:20:03,640 --> 03:20:10,400
does keep a single-family neighborhood more intact as to what it was built for. I think

2143
03:20:10,400 --> 03:20:16,480
the other disadvantage to removing that land use category is that, you know, we do start

2144
03:20:16,480 --> 03:20:19,180
are blurring different land use categories.

2145
03:20:19,400 --> 03:20:23,680
This is one of the concerns when we first started thinking about do we need an occupancy

2146
03:20:23,680 --> 03:20:24,220
standard?

2147
03:20:24,760 --> 03:20:31,380
We do have single family units, we have boarding houses, we have multiplexes that are large

2148
03:20:31,380 --> 03:20:39,540
single family homes designed to accommodate more people and we have multi-family and it

2149
03:20:39,540 --> 03:20:42,400
does get hard to distinguish between those.

2150
03:20:42,400 --> 03:20:47,780
So that could be something that we would just really need to take a look and make sure

2151
03:20:47,780 --> 03:20:53,480
that all of the other categories that we have are very clear and either redefined to make

2152
03:20:53,480 --> 03:20:56,760
sure that we understand what is what in the code.

2153
03:20:59,920 --> 03:21:06,440
So another option, this is option number two, would be to retain and just redefine the boarding

2154
03:21:06,440 --> 03:21:07,520
house classification.

2155
03:21:08,340 --> 03:21:11,360
So the city could create some kind of a threshold.

2156
03:21:11,360 --> 03:21:19,240
We could raise the bar pretty high and say that there is a certain line which, you know,

2157
03:21:19,480 --> 03:21:24,800
base upon not occupancy, but maybe base upon the number of rooms you're renting out,

2158
03:21:25,020 --> 03:21:31,120
or the number of leases that you have that would all of a sudden kind of trigger you into

2159
03:21:31,120 --> 03:21:36,220
that boarding house category where you would need to add more parking and go through this

2160
03:21:36,220 --> 03:21:45,800
neighborhood process. So advantages of keeping that category do kind of help try to balance

2161
03:21:45,800 --> 03:21:52,360
the character of a neighborhood with kind of allowing some of these homes to transition,

2162
03:21:52,880 --> 03:21:58,360
but it would kind of prevent somebody from purchasing a single family and then just putting

2163
03:21:58,360 --> 03:22:04,000
you know, bedrooms in the basement, bedrooms all over and could create a neighborhood concern

2164
03:22:04,000 --> 03:22:11,040
with that. The other thing would be that it would allow public participation in the process,

2165
03:22:11,300 --> 03:22:17,540
so these do require planning commission hearings, but the disadvantages of this option are also

2166
03:22:17,540 --> 03:22:25,380
pretty strong, and that it does, it would be very difficult, I think, to differentiate a boarding

2167
03:22:25,380 --> 03:22:32,640
house category from a single family. We do not have a rental program where we could check leases,

2168
03:22:32,640 --> 03:22:36,040
and understanding how many bedrooms are in there,

2169
03:22:36,320 --> 03:22:38,160
it really could be arbitrary, you know,

2170
03:22:38,260 --> 03:22:40,260
and there would be an equity concern with that.

2171
03:22:40,800 --> 03:22:42,620
You know, whatever we kind of the direction

2172
03:22:42,620 --> 03:22:43,520
that we go with,

2173
03:22:43,600 --> 03:22:47,140
we do not want to create any kind of consequences

2174
03:22:47,140 --> 03:22:49,980
that would result from large families

2175
03:22:49,980 --> 03:22:53,160
or multi-generational families in a house.

2176
03:22:53,480 --> 03:22:56,140
So there would be some kind of difficulties with that.

2177
03:22:56,760 --> 03:22:59,440
I think that it would be really tricky

2178
03:22:59,440 --> 03:23:06,480
to enforce an administer without having an occupancy standard and differentiating because

2179
03:23:06,480 --> 03:23:10,520
you lease your bedrooms, that's different than leasing the whole house.

2180
03:23:11,180 --> 03:23:15,440
And then that approval process with the public hearing, a disadvantage of keeping that

2181
03:23:15,440 --> 03:23:20,700
could be that it does create a lengthy process for somebody to go through.

2182
03:23:20,980 --> 03:23:27,640
There is uncertainty, and it is a public involved kind of findings of compatibility with the

2183
03:23:27,640 --> 03:23:32,260
neighborhood that would discourage somebody from that, from coming in with that use.

2184
03:23:32,800 --> 03:23:37,040
And really kind of stepping back from, I know I'm kind of in the weeds with all these

2185
03:23:37,040 --> 03:23:44,120
little things, but the intent of this legislation and removing occupancy is to open the door to

2186
03:23:44,120 --> 03:23:51,120
allow more people to congregate in these homes, build equity by, you know, and build credit

2187
03:23:51,120 --> 03:23:53,840
rating by being included on leases.

2188
03:23:55,100 --> 03:24:02,880
So that is item number one went through it really fast that I'll be asking for some policy feedback

2189
03:24:02,880 --> 03:24:10,240
for that to either remove or to redefine the boarding house category in the UDC.

2190
03:24:11,720 --> 03:24:19,280
So we're going to completely switch gears to the next house bill and that is focused on accessory dwelling units.

2191
03:24:19,280 --> 03:24:27,180
So this is a house bill that we have until the end of June to align the UDC with, but

2192
03:24:27,180 --> 03:24:33,420
this is a house bill that really looked to try to remove zoning barriers that really

2193
03:24:33,420 --> 03:24:40,500
prevented the construction of accessory dwelling units, you know, as this alternative housing

2194
03:24:40,500 --> 03:24:43,180
opportunity with single family homes.

2195
03:24:43,900 --> 03:24:49,800
Good news about that is many of the barriers that the House Bill sought to remove are barriers

2196
03:24:49,800 --> 03:24:51,200
we've already removed.

2197
03:24:51,820 --> 03:24:58,600
You know, owner, occupancy, lot sizes, we've removed a lot of those, and even further

2198
03:24:59,720 --> 03:25:04,340
incentivize accessory dwelling units without the capital expansion fees.

2199
03:25:05,320 --> 03:25:12,340
So the House Bill does go further in doing a little bit more items that does have impact

2200
03:25:12,340 --> 03:25:17,440
on our code that we would need to adjust, those include architectural standards.

2201
03:25:17,940 --> 03:25:23,820
So the UDC does have a standard that looks to kind of make the accessory dwelling unit

2202
03:25:23,820 --> 03:25:26,300
compatible with what that house is.

2203
03:25:26,740 --> 03:25:31,720
You know, it didn't have to match, but it needed to be similar in terms of, you know, you're using maybe

2204
03:25:31,720 --> 03:25:37,940
the same colors or the same materials, but there was some relation between that accessory dwelling

2205
03:25:37,940 --> 03:25:41,720
you the appearance of it and what that principal house was.

2206
03:25:42,320 --> 03:25:46,380
So that is one thing that we are no longer allowed to do under this house bill.

2207
03:25:46,640 --> 03:25:49,720
We will need to remove our architectural standards.

2208
03:25:50,200 --> 03:25:58,440
That also includes the height of an ADU, which we kind of connected with a past amendment,

2209
03:25:58,740 --> 03:26:05,080
connected the height to not exceed the height of the principal house without going through

2210
03:26:05,080 --> 03:26:06,540
a neighborhood meeting process.

2211
03:26:06,540 --> 03:26:10,940
the height of an accessory dwelling unit where that came from is we have received

2212
03:26:10,940 --> 03:26:15,300
complaints from neighbors, you have a ranch house, and then you do a two-story ADU,

2213
03:26:15,560 --> 03:26:17,220
and neighbors didn't like that.

2214
03:26:17,360 --> 03:26:22,240
So we had embedded a process in where you could ask to go higher, but it involved

2215
03:26:22,240 --> 03:26:24,300
in neighborhood meeting no more.

2216
03:26:25,400 --> 03:26:32,520
The height and all of the architectural standards for an ADU has to be the same as what

2217
03:26:32,520 --> 03:26:41,660
that we would require in a principal dwelling, which means that if that house could be 28 feet, even if they didn't build it at 28 feet,

2218
03:26:42,000 --> 03:26:44,660
then the accessory dwelling unit can be 28 feet.

2219
03:26:45,240 --> 03:26:57,620
So it's moving a lot of these obstacles in the zoning code that kind of had some restrictions on the appearance and the height of the accessory dwelling units.

2220
03:26:57,620 --> 03:27:02,560
All accessory dwelling units would need to be approved in an administrative level.

2221
03:27:03,180 --> 03:27:06,580
No hearing process is no neighborhood meetings.

2222
03:27:07,260 --> 03:27:14,120
So anywhere where we had options to say, or you could go bigger, or you could go with more square footage,

2223
03:27:14,980 --> 03:27:17,240
that actually is going to be removed.

2224
03:27:17,700 --> 03:27:24,100
In Loveland, the maximum square feet foot of a accessory dwelling unit is 900 square feet.

2225
03:27:24,100 --> 03:27:29,120
everyone would be allowed that 900 square feet you would just need to meet your

2226
03:27:29,120 --> 03:27:37,540
setbacks which are 5 feet from the side in rear. Okay. I think one of the most

2227
03:27:37,540 --> 03:27:45,880
significant parts of this bill is not so much what it does to our UDC but really

2228
03:27:45,880 --> 03:27:52,480
what it does to HOAs and the Covenants, the Bilal, the declarations.

2229
03:27:52,480 --> 03:27:57,280
Lovelin is a community that has a lot of Flanuna development.

2230
03:27:57,500 --> 03:28:03,220
72, we have 72 residential PUDs that allowed low-density residential.

2231
03:28:03,920 --> 03:28:15,860
Each PUD is incredibly unique, none are the same, and most of them were basically approved in the 1990s,

2232
03:28:15,860 --> 03:28:21,840
the early 2000s when ADUs weren't even a thought at that point.

2233
03:28:22,680 --> 03:28:26,640
So a lot of them are very silent on ADUs.

2234
03:28:26,900 --> 03:28:30,680
Some of them have restrictions that say you can't do any detached structures.

2235
03:28:31,440 --> 03:28:34,780
Sheds, you know, accessory and anything that's detached.

2236
03:28:35,820 --> 03:28:42,000
And some have standards that are like housing standards for the principal house, but they

2237
03:28:42,000 --> 03:28:46,720
They call them housing standards, which would apply to ADU because ADU is a housing too.

2238
03:28:47,220 --> 03:28:52,160
But they have pretty strict standards about how much masonry you need to use your roof

2239
03:28:52,160 --> 03:28:53,580
pitch, all of those things.

2240
03:28:54,360 --> 03:29:05,440
So what this house bill does is it supersedes any of the bylaws and declarations in a HOA

2241
03:29:05,440 --> 03:29:07,240
or in a planned unit development.

2242
03:29:07,240 --> 03:29:14,080
It opens the door to say in any community, in every community, in the City of Colorado,

2243
03:29:14,560 --> 03:29:22,340
if you have a single family house, you have the right to develop and construct an accessory dwelling unit.

2244
03:29:22,920 --> 03:29:28,280
And the cities, the counties, and the HOAs cannot preclude that.

2245
03:29:29,160 --> 03:29:39,160
Any new PUD that comes before the city cannot have any design standard stricter than what

2246
03:29:39,160 --> 03:29:45,580
the design standards are in the UDC, which are also basically the design standards for

2247
03:29:45,580 --> 03:29:47,340
any single family house that we have.

2248
03:29:48,440 --> 03:29:55,240
So the new PUDs are covered, but what this house bill does is it gives the city these

2249
03:29:55,240 --> 03:29:59,780
options of how to tackle those old plan unit,

2250
03:30:02,140 --> 03:30:29,860
So it essentially says, city, you have two options. One, you can supersede all of the standards in these PUDs, and only apply your code to any accessory dwelling unit, or you could implement the design standards in the existing PUDs that you have. So it's giving us the choice.

2251
03:30:30,000 --> 03:30:35,580
a community of what to do. Here lies the options.

2252
03:30:40,490 --> 03:30:43,630
Here lies the options. Here we go.

2253
03:30:45,310 --> 03:30:51,250
The first option is the option that staff is recommending and that is that we would supersede

2254
03:30:51,570 --> 03:31:00,430
the standards in these old planned unit developments. The advantages to that are very clear, equitable

2255
03:31:00,430 --> 03:31:08,510
standard citywide. It wouldn't matter which subdivision you're in, it wouldn't matter which

2256
03:31:08,510 --> 03:31:15,290
PUD that your ADU was in. You would all have the exact same standards that are set forth

2257
03:31:15,290 --> 03:31:16,110
in the UDC.

2258
03:31:18,670 --> 03:31:24,270
I think another advantage of superseding that is as I mentioned before is that each

2259
03:31:24,270 --> 03:31:30,690
PUD is extremely unique with design standards that weren't necessarily tailored for ADUs,

2260
03:31:30,830 --> 03:31:35,930
but it would get us into the position as staff of trying to determine which standards

2261
03:31:35,930 --> 03:31:44,430
apply to the ADU and really interpret those, which is really difficult with 72 planned

2262
03:31:44,430 --> 03:31:45,770
unit developments in the city.

2263
03:31:46,530 --> 03:31:51,310
There are some disadvantages that we want to talk through too as well.

2264
03:31:51,310 --> 03:31:58,450
Along with these unique PUDs, they do have some have, you know, very thematic architecture.

2265
03:31:59,130 --> 03:32:06,010
You know, they have designed standards and expectations that are set forth in that subdivision.

2266
03:32:06,230 --> 03:32:12,090
Now with the state opening the door to allowing everybody an accessory dwelling unit

2267
03:32:12,090 --> 03:32:17,670
where you once thought that there's no way your neighbor was able to put an accessory dwelling unit

2268
03:32:17,670 --> 03:32:24,610
And maybe some expectations that it does look closely like the house that could be developed.

2269
03:32:25,070 --> 03:32:31,570
If Masonry was required on the house, for example, Masonry would be required on the accessory

2270
03:32:31,570 --> 03:32:32,370
dwelling unit.

2271
03:32:33,210 --> 03:32:41,470
So it would match potentially match expectations in some of these existing developments a little

2272
03:32:41,470 --> 03:32:45,750
bit greater than not having those design standards.

2273
03:32:45,750 --> 03:32:53,330
Now, I think one of the other kind of big ticket items in removing the architectural standards

2274
03:32:53,330 --> 03:33:00,710
with that state bill is that it does open the door for some more modular type structures

2275
03:33:00,710 --> 03:33:02,450
in people's backyards.

2276
03:33:03,210 --> 03:33:06,610
And, quite honestly, with the standards that we have in the UDC,

2277
03:33:07,390 --> 03:33:14,530
that talks about matching that house, it really precluded a lot of these manufactured products

2278
03:33:14,530 --> 03:33:18,830
because the manufactured products are not going to match the house.

2279
03:33:20,250 --> 03:33:24,070
So by removing these, it is going to open the door.

2280
03:33:24,230 --> 03:33:29,010
We hope that it encourages more accessory dwelling units to be built.

2281
03:33:29,650 --> 03:33:35,390
But that may be different than the expectations in one of these existing plan unit developments.

2282
03:33:36,330 --> 03:33:39,150
So those are the disadvantages option two.

2283
03:33:39,150 --> 03:33:48,010
It's almost like the flipped is saying, we will enforce those ADU standards in PUDs,

2284
03:33:48,150 --> 03:33:54,450
promote consistency in the homes within the neighborhood, and then the disadvantages

2285
03:33:54,450 --> 03:33:55,270
are really good.

2286
03:33:55,390 --> 03:33:59,510
And the advantages that I had said before, does create some barriers.

2287
03:33:59,510 --> 03:34:08,250
It could create extra costs, to put in materials that really we're designed for a primary

2288
03:34:10,110 --> 03:34:15,670
And once again, when you step back from kind of getting in the weeds in the very detailed,

2289
03:34:16,270 --> 03:34:18,330
what was the intent of the house bill?

2290
03:34:18,910 --> 03:34:22,850
It's really to open the door to allow the construction of these.

2291
03:34:23,330 --> 03:34:28,990
We have opened the door quite a bit in love and compared to any of our neighbors along the front range.

2292
03:34:29,270 --> 03:34:32,310
And we're still not getting many accessory dwelling units.

2293
03:34:32,310 --> 03:34:39,310
I said in the last presentation, 38 since 2019, to this year, and I think that they were

2294
03:34:39,310 --> 03:34:39,990
Jamie's.

2295
03:34:41,270 --> 03:34:43,410
So they're still expensive.

2296
03:34:44,100 --> 03:34:51,510
They are still expensive, possibly, with allowing more of these manufactured products

2297
03:34:51,920 --> 03:34:53,430
in these backyards.

2298
03:34:53,930 --> 03:34:54,810
We may get more.

2299
03:34:55,090 --> 03:34:56,610
We're hopeful of that.

2300
03:34:56,610 --> 03:35:04,830
But that is like question number two for the Council getting any policy feedback for

2301
03:35:04,830 --> 03:35:09,290
that would support either implementing the design standards and these existing

2302
03:35:09,290 --> 03:35:14,010
PUDs or superseding that and doing just the standards in the code.

2303
03:35:15,070 --> 03:35:21,210
The last item that I have for you tonight is to talk a little bit about some terminology.

2304
03:35:21,210 --> 03:35:27,430
Well, we've been noticing in these house bills is they have been redefining items.

2305
03:35:27,990 --> 03:35:32,670
They have a new definition for an example of an accessory dwelling unit.

2306
03:35:32,990 --> 03:35:35,210
The code amendment, we are just going to replace it.

2307
03:35:35,310 --> 03:35:38,050
We're going to try to be as consistent with the state as possible.

2308
03:35:38,690 --> 03:35:50,250
The other terminology that the state is using in these house bills, they have removed the word like family from kind of the traditional term single family, multi family.

2309
03:35:50,250 --> 03:35:57,530
They've gone with really the terminology of unit, so it's a single unit, it's a multi-unit.

2310
03:35:58,070 --> 03:36:02,570
And I do think that we talked a little bit about this two years ago when we were going

2311
03:36:02,570 --> 03:36:09,330
through some of these occupancy standards, you know, should we, you know, just go and remove

2312
03:36:09,330 --> 03:36:14,890
that term, kind of update the code, go with single-unit, multi-unit.

2313
03:36:15,090 --> 03:36:16,710
I did a quick word search.

2314
03:36:16,710 --> 03:36:40,610
I think we view single-family 82 times in the code, but it's all relevant to, you know, single-family, which would be easy to replace, but we want to, before we go to any lengths of doing that, we would want to make sure that we had some guidance from the City Council and some feedback on if that's something that you'd like to do with our UDC.

2315
03:36:40,610 --> 03:36:41,030
So

2316
03:36:43,340 --> 03:36:51,900
I am done actually speaking, whatever guidance that we get, whatever feedback would be

2317
03:36:51,900 --> 03:36:57,940
incorporated into a UDC amendment package, we would then begin the outreach process

2318
03:36:57,940 --> 03:37:03,220
with our commissions planning commission, affordable housing commission, construction advisory

2319
03:37:03,220 --> 03:37:03,960
commission.

2320
03:37:04,600 --> 03:37:09,280
I will never forget that one and then bring that forward to City Council.

2321
03:37:10,140 --> 03:37:10,480
All right.

2322
03:37:11,280 --> 03:37:12,120
Ready for us?

2323
03:37:12,120 --> 03:37:12,220
Yes.

2324
03:37:12,580 --> 03:37:13,200
All right.

2325
03:37:13,340 --> 03:37:14,180
Councillor Olson.

2326
03:37:14,920 --> 03:37:15,380
Thank you.

2327
03:37:16,740 --> 03:37:21,300
Let's talk about the occupancy requirements first.

2328
03:37:22,440 --> 03:37:26,700
As I look at the House Bill, it doesn't address parking.

2329
03:37:28,160 --> 03:37:37,740
In your description, it leads me to believe that you promote that we can't place a restriction

2330
03:37:37,740 --> 03:37:39,780
on parking or require parking.

2331
03:37:39,780 --> 03:37:46,700
so but to me the law doesn't say that so I guess where I'm going is would it not be

2332
03:37:46,700 --> 03:37:53,000
advantageous to us to have still some control over the parking and I don't know

2333
03:37:53,000 --> 03:37:58,600
Vince if that's a legal question or you want to give a planning answer first and

2334
03:37:58,600 --> 03:38:04,560
then Vince can answer if he wants I'm gonna go planning first okay so we have

2335
03:38:04,560 --> 03:38:10,520
parking requirements for our single-family detached homes to parking spaces are required

2336
03:38:10,520 --> 03:38:18,100
per unit. So, if we were to remove the boarding house category, the zoning category for that,

2337
03:38:18,420 --> 03:38:24,600
we would be considering any one of those kind of uses, whether you rent it out individually,

2338
03:38:24,980 --> 03:38:30,580
the bedrooms are not, as a single-family use, they would be required to off-street parking

2339
03:38:30,580 --> 03:38:37,120
parking spaces. Traditionally, we have the garage spaces are counted and the driveways are

2340
03:38:37,120 --> 03:38:42,940
counted. Usually we have more than two parking spaces, but that would be all that we would

2341
03:38:42,940 --> 03:38:50,080
be able to require unless we altered how many parking spaces a standard single family

2342
03:38:50,080 --> 03:38:57,680
home would need. Okay. Then the last item you have the terminology. To me,

2343
03:38:57,680 --> 03:39:06,920
a single family, it's a description, and a multi-family, single unit, multi-unit, doesn't

2344
03:39:06,920 --> 03:39:17,780
convey to me much of a description. I mean, for me, leaving it in there as a descriptive,

2345
03:39:18,000 --> 03:39:25,680
I think, is just fine. We don't have to reword everything. And then on the ADUs, the ADUs,

2346
03:39:25,680 --> 03:39:36,140
The legislation is pretty extensive, and you're recommending the first option, which is to kind

2347
03:39:38,790 --> 03:39:43,910
of eliminate, let me make sure I get it right, if I can get my thing to move.

2348
03:39:47,420 --> 03:39:56,660
So you want to supersede PUD design standards, and in here you say that it would make equitable standards citywide.

2349
03:39:56,660 --> 03:39:58,840
But if you remove it, there is no standard.

2350
03:40:00,100 --> 03:40:03,760
So what's equitable?

2351
03:40:04,860 --> 03:40:08,460
So all accessory dwelling units would

2352
03:40:08,460 --> 03:40:10,940
be subject to those provisions in the UDC.

2353
03:40:11,240 --> 03:40:12,960
It does not contain architectural,

2354
03:40:13,520 --> 03:40:16,800
because we can't apply architectural standards to this.

2355
03:40:17,140 --> 03:40:18,780
But it would be setbacks.

2356
03:40:19,220 --> 03:40:24,420
It would be standards about we've got utility standards.

2357
03:40:24,420 --> 03:40:33,020
We've got, you know, building code standards, they would be all treated the same, which is how all new

2358
03:40:33,020 --> 03:40:41,400
PUDs and any development that's not in an existing planning development would be subject to.

2359
03:40:41,860 --> 03:40:49,080
So what this would say is that whether you're in a new PUD, you're not in a PUD, or you're an existing PUD,

2360
03:40:49,080 --> 03:40:57,140
We're all going to do the standards and the UDC minus any architectural standards because those would have to be removed.

2361
03:40:57,660 --> 03:40:58,620
Okay, thank you.

2362
03:40:58,780 --> 03:41:00,220
We move on, Councillor Foley.

2363
03:41:05,140 --> 03:41:05,900
Thank you.

2364
03:41:07,260 --> 03:41:19,820
You know, when I sit and I look at, on the boarding house issue, at the end of the day I like it to what I've seen a lot in Boulder and

2365
03:41:19,820 --> 03:41:26,040
a lot and for Collins and a lot and Greeley and in the form of student housing.

2366
03:41:27,780 --> 03:41:35,120
At the end of the day, I think you have to have parking or maybe as we look at this,

2367
03:41:35,480 --> 03:41:36,240
maybe we can,

2368
03:41:38,400 --> 03:41:43,100
I don't know if we can restrict it to a specific lot but cornered lots are

2369
03:41:43,100 --> 03:41:51,820
better than mid block lots in terms of allowing for off-street parking to be considered, and

2370
03:41:51,820 --> 03:41:58,540
a corner lot is going to give you a little bit more on-street parking than say a mid

2371
03:41:59,220 --> 03:42:01,860
lot down the street.

2372
03:42:04,100 --> 03:42:09,000
I think it's important to still keep that just from the standpoint

2373
03:42:09,000 --> 03:42:16,200
point that it's ran more like a commercial business and it's not necessarily

2374
03:42:16,200 --> 03:42:23,840
residential. It's habitational in nature. And so I think there needs to be a there

2375
03:42:23,840 --> 03:42:29,260
needs to be that distinction because when you do while you may not be able to

2376
03:42:29,260 --> 03:42:34,260
limit the number of people you do start to get into life safety code issues that

2377
03:42:34,260 --> 03:42:41,540
need to be addressed and we can do that in a specific design with it being a boarding

2378
03:42:41,540 --> 03:42:45,440
house versus eliminating it and just saying it's a single family.

2379
03:42:47,000 --> 03:42:55,500
If you're operating a business and you're renting out units, that then takes that unit

2380
03:42:55,500 --> 03:43:03,440
out of the residential, private owned and puts it into a commercial side of things, at least

2381
03:43:03,440 --> 03:43:07,900
from the insurance standpoint. So I think you need to keep it, I think we need to retool

2382
03:43:07,900 --> 03:43:15,240
it so that it fits. But again, I see Boulder, Fort Collins is really, they have to deal

2383
03:43:15,240 --> 03:43:19,680
with this all the time with all their student housing, but you could call it student housing,

2384
03:43:19,860 --> 03:43:24,780
you could call it workforce housing, you could, you know, instead of it being a boarding

2385
03:43:24,780 --> 03:43:32,360
house necessarily. But I do think we need to also look at the parking. If you're going to

2386
03:43:32,360 --> 03:43:41,320
going to rent it out, those people are going to have vehicles and whether you say, you don't

2387
03:43:41,320 --> 03:43:45,960
need to plan for it, the neighborhood is going to end up having to plan for it and deal

2388
03:43:45,960 --> 03:43:51,300
with it because we don't have a standard. So I think we need to have a standard moving

2389
03:43:51,300 --> 03:43:51,720
forward.

2390
03:43:52,300 --> 03:44:02,500
In terms of the ADUs, I kind of like to stay with what the PUD originally had. That's about

2391
03:44:02,500 --> 03:44:08,180
property rights, people bought into that, and that needs to be preserved as best as possible.

2392
03:44:08,700 --> 03:44:14,040
All right. Thank you, Councillor Light-Covach. Thank you. Thank you so much, Kerry, for your

2393
03:44:14,040 --> 03:44:20,980
presentation and for bringing us these options. I am in favor of eliminating boarding houses

2394
03:44:20,980 --> 03:44:26,900
as a separate use as per the staff recommendation. I do understand that it could lead to a parking

2395
03:44:26,900 --> 03:44:31,540
issue, but it sounds like we only have one boarding house right now, and so I'm not sure

2396
03:44:31,540 --> 03:44:35,220
or just how big of an issue we're actually going to have with that.

2397
03:44:35,980 --> 03:44:41,260
As far as the accessory dwelling units, I am also in agreement with what the staff recommended

2398
03:44:41,260 --> 03:44:45,840
to supersede the PUD design standards, make them clear and equitable citywide.

2399
03:44:46,020 --> 03:44:51,740
I feel like if we go with the other option, it's just going to be a resource intensive nightmare

2400
03:44:51,740 --> 03:44:55,020
trying to manage all of that and enforce all of that.

2401
03:44:55,160 --> 03:44:57,120
So that's going to be a code enforcement issue, I think.

2402
03:44:57,120 --> 03:44:59,260
and then as far as terminology.

2403
03:45:00,180 --> 03:45:28,280
I think we need to be in alignment with the state as much as possible to avoid having to make changes downstream, so I'm in favor of replacing the family with single unit, multi-family unit, although I don't feel strongly about that. So if the rest of council wants to keep family, I'm fine with that too. Thank you. Thank you, council member fall. Yeah, I'll make it easy on you carry it. We're at a boarding house. We sat through hours of talking about that planning commission to begin with. For me, it doesn't matter.

2404
03:45:28,280 --> 03:45:32,640
or you know, here's the thing, and this is something we talked about at Planet Commission.

2405
03:45:33,100 --> 03:45:36,980
We don't have anybody out there that's going to be the truth copper, the birth copper,

2406
03:45:37,240 --> 03:45:38,360
anything else like that.

2407
03:45:38,720 --> 03:45:43,100
So if somebody coming in and saying these people are my relatives, whether they're second cousins

2408
03:45:43,100 --> 03:45:47,880
or whatever, if they want to run a room out, they're going to run it, stay, go that way.

2409
03:45:48,680 --> 03:45:54,660
I would say go with option one the other way around with the ADUs and I say super seed,

2410
03:45:54,660 --> 03:46:05,220
and just make it a lot, and I get what Councillor Foley is saying about property rights, but we're not eliminating property rights.

2411
03:46:05,620 --> 03:46:10,240
Basically, the state has come back and said, look, we're going to supersede this, just the way it is.

2412
03:46:11,420 --> 03:46:15,040
And I say we go with it. I'm for the single-family, multi-family itself.

2413
03:46:18,930 --> 03:46:21,090
Thank you, Councillor Crenning.

2414
03:46:24,280 --> 03:46:28,480
Kerry, I would support removing boarding house, eliminating it.

2415
03:46:29,860 --> 03:46:35,080
On the ADUs, I would support the staff's recommendation, although I certainly understand

2416
03:46:35,080 --> 03:46:42,080
the position of Councillor Foley that we might be impeding on property rights, but we aren't.

2417
03:46:42,200 --> 03:46:46,780
The state has, and that sounds like a good fight for an HOA lawyer to take up on a taking

2418
03:46:46,780 --> 03:46:52,560
problem but that's not our fight and then with regard to the terminology to be

2419
03:46:52,560 --> 03:46:59,280
consistent single unit multi unit I would support that. Thank you Councillor

2420
03:46:59,280 --> 03:47:06,040
Black. Thank you Madam Mayor. Thank you Carrie for the presentation and these

2421
03:47:06,040 --> 03:47:16,420
options. I'm in favor of eliminating the boarding house zoning in the UDC and as far as

2422
03:47:16,420 --> 03:47:21,740
parking goes I will tell you the blue collar workers tend to have trailers and

2423
03:47:21,740 --> 03:47:27,400
they're already up against having a hard time with parking and so our

2424
03:47:27,400 --> 03:47:32,960
worker men have a lot of equipment and so we need to always keep that in mind

2425
03:47:32,960 --> 03:47:38,420
when we're talking about parking standards. We do need to have a place for work

2426
03:47:38,420 --> 03:47:42,180
and class folks with their equipment and trailers to be able to park on the

2427
03:47:42,180 --> 03:47:50,180
street. So that's just food for thought. As far as the ADUs go, I'm in favor of supporting

2428
03:47:50,180 --> 03:47:56,000
the recommendation of staff, option one, supersede the PUDU standards. We're in a different time

2429
03:47:56,000 --> 03:48:05,480
and we need housing and I think it's going to be a sacrifice for some folks more than others.

2430
03:48:05,900 --> 03:48:10,100
But that's what we do as a community. We try to take care of each other.

2431
03:48:11,360 --> 03:48:17,840
terminology. I'm in favor of single unit and multi unit. Thanks so much.

2432
03:48:18,920 --> 03:48:25,520
All right, thank you. To me, in regards to the boarding house, I go with option one,

2433
03:48:25,840 --> 03:48:34,200
remove the category of boarding house with ADUs in regards to PUDs. I go with option one,

2434
03:48:34,200 --> 03:48:40,420
Superseed and in regards to how to describe, I go with single unit and

2435
03:48:40,420 --> 03:48:44,940
family or single unit and multi unit versus family.

2436
03:48:45,660 --> 03:48:47,700
Simple, okay, Councillor Foley.

2437
03:48:47,960 --> 03:48:51,180
I did not weigh in on the family versus unit.

2438
03:48:53,160 --> 03:48:56,360
My preference is to keep the word family.

2439
03:48:57,040 --> 03:49:03,440
I think we're constantly trying to take that out as a nucleus of our society.

2440
03:49:03,440 --> 03:49:07,020
And I think we need to keep it in there as a point.

2441
03:49:07,260 --> 03:49:09,880
We want people to raise their families here.

2442
03:49:10,000 --> 03:49:14,340
We want people to bring their families in,

2443
03:49:14,640 --> 03:49:17,400
and especially when you start talking about ADUs

2444
03:49:17,400 --> 03:49:19,560
and bringing in your relatives,

2445
03:49:19,620 --> 03:49:22,820
you're bringing in your families to come in

2446
03:49:22,820 --> 03:49:27,080
and take care of them as people age out

2447
03:49:27,080 --> 03:49:29,840
or as people fall on hard times.

2448
03:49:29,840 --> 03:49:30,820
They have a place to go.

2449
03:49:30,820 --> 03:49:32,500
So you take care of family first.

2450
03:49:33,840 --> 03:49:35,240
All right, Councillor Samson.

2451
03:49:37,820 --> 03:49:38,900
Thank you, Madam Chair.

2452
03:49:39,720 --> 03:49:40,240
Okay.

2453
03:49:40,580 --> 03:49:42,860
So I will do your recommendation, Terry.

2454
03:49:43,040 --> 03:49:45,000
And then I have a question again.

2455
03:49:46,440 --> 03:49:50,200
So first, I'm sorry, women being boring, separate, lonely.

2456
03:49:51,180 --> 03:49:52,180
I'm fine with that, too.

2457
03:49:52,480 --> 03:49:56,320
I do have concerns about art, but also not.

2458
03:49:56,900 --> 03:50:00,940
There's big families, but at one point all of my siblings

2459
03:50:00,940 --> 03:50:04,880
And I, and a couple of us, I was in the United States, I was like,

2460
03:50:04,980 --> 03:50:09,760
hearing in a single family home and kind of broke and I would find parking on the street

2461
03:50:09,760 --> 03:50:12,620
in my case, but they had a park there.

2462
03:50:12,780 --> 03:50:18,060
So, I don't know how, we didn't expect that, but if it was possible,

2463
03:50:18,580 --> 03:50:20,760
so I wouldn't want it to get any news right now.

2464
03:50:21,200 --> 03:50:23,380
I definitely think this is one of the main things I want to do.

2465
03:50:23,520 --> 03:50:24,380
No, it's selfish.

2466
03:50:24,700 --> 03:50:25,780
There are comments around that.

2467
03:50:26,500 --> 03:50:30,980
I also support the communication staff that they use and I'll show it up on the connection.

2468
03:50:32,080 --> 03:50:33,600
So far, I do know our family.

2469
03:50:34,480 --> 03:50:42,880
I think I appreciated your shout out, so when we were back on board about this, all of this in 2021, it was endless.

2470
03:50:43,900 --> 03:50:48,500
I never had the word, using the word family, but it comes housing.

2471
03:50:48,500 --> 03:50:58,940
But I also don't really love units, I feel like if you have a boarding house, they have multiple units, so they maybe have a whole family, actually a house is one of the many units.

2472
03:51:00,200 --> 03:51:10,580
So I don't, that to me might have noticed it well, so I have to say it's more important if we roll the unit or video, but I would have to say, you know,

2473
03:51:12,860 --> 03:51:19,640
I just agree that we need some sort of family in order for people living here to know that family is going to be the house.

2474
03:51:20,240 --> 03:51:24,580
Without our family center city, I think we don't need the work family.

2475
03:51:25,120 --> 03:51:28,760
There's a lot of learning families, there's a lot of friends, there's a lot of family friends.

2476
03:51:29,060 --> 03:51:32,260
And you're right, there are a lot of social and racial families in houses as well.

2477
03:51:32,940 --> 03:51:38,200
But I think the family isn't necessarily just the people that share the same place.

2478
03:51:39,220 --> 03:51:42,360
That being said, I do have a question for you, Perry.

2479
03:51:43,100 --> 03:51:44,780
When it comes to any news.

2480
03:51:45,680 --> 03:51:50,880
If there are requirements for fire access to any news,

2481
03:51:52,400 --> 03:51:55,600
what is that looking for the fire access?

2482
03:52:01,100 --> 03:52:02,700
That is a great question.

2483
03:52:03,200 --> 03:52:06,920
The fire department reviews all of our accessory dwelling units

2484
03:52:07,860 --> 03:52:09,840
through the building permit process.

2485
03:52:09,840 --> 03:52:18,960
and what they require, they require it to be addressed and I do believe that they have

2486
03:52:18,960 --> 03:52:24,360
to put an address kind of by the fence so that they know to go back to it.

2487
03:52:24,360 --> 03:52:32,080
It does have a separate address than the house structure does and then just really fire

2488
03:52:32,080 --> 03:52:33,040
code provisions.

2489
03:52:41,630 --> 03:52:48,470
No, so they just have to have a clear access to get there, like with the hose.

2490
03:52:49,090 --> 03:52:54,350
So it can have a fence, they just need to have a gate so they can kind of walk through

2491
03:52:54,350 --> 03:52:59,590
and get to the back, but they would serve it just like a single family house from the

2492
03:52:59,590 --> 03:53:00,050
street.

2493
03:53:00,050 --> 03:53:02,250
All right. All right.

2494
03:53:04,210 --> 03:53:07,130
Councillor Crunnan, your light is on. Did you have another comment?

2495
03:53:08,630 --> 03:53:10,590
Okay. Councillor Foley.

2496
03:53:10,850 --> 03:53:20,630
I do. Just to add on to the single family, multi-family, etc. Every single code out there,

2497
03:53:20,810 --> 03:53:26,670
your building codes, your fire codes, they all have the word family in there. Your insurance

2498
03:53:27,910 --> 03:53:32,570
language. All of that has the word family in there. It doesn't matter what the word police

2499
03:53:32,570 --> 03:53:39,250
at the state said. Let's keep it consistent so it's like and kind in when people are

2500
03:53:39,250 --> 03:53:46,210
dealing with stuff. They know what codes they're not. Oh, it's a unit versus this because

2501
03:53:46,210 --> 03:53:52,690
there are different areas in various codes and various standards that do distinguish between

2502
03:53:52,690 --> 03:54:02,350
a unit and a unit within a multi-family structure type of thing. So let's not confuse and

2503
03:54:02,350 --> 03:54:07,550
immense what it is by throwing the word unit in there just to get the word family out.

2504
03:54:08,350 --> 03:54:13,670
All right, so I'll open up public comment. Is there anyone in chambers that wishes to give public

2505
03:54:13,670 --> 03:54:14,890
comment on this item?

2506
03:54:17,340 --> 03:54:20,540
Sterling, do we have any phone and public comment on this item?

2507
03:54:21,740 --> 03:54:26,460
Thank you Madam Mayor, if you would like to speak to this item, please use the raise-your-hand

2508
03:54:26,460 --> 03:54:29,580
feature or press star 9 if joining my phone and

2509
03:54:33,290 --> 03:54:35,230
I do not have any user's raised hands.

2510
03:54:35,570 --> 03:54:38,550
Thank you Sterling, Councillor Limburg-Faul, did you have a comment?

2511
03:54:38,790 --> 03:54:39,170
No ma'am.

2512
03:54:39,310 --> 03:54:40,270
I'm ready to vote.

2513
03:54:41,550 --> 03:54:42,330
You are not voting.

2514
03:54:42,590 --> 03:54:43,130
It's a study.

2515
03:54:43,410 --> 03:54:44,070
That's what we're saying.

2516
03:54:44,610 --> 03:54:44,950
Okay.

2517
03:54:45,390 --> 03:54:46,430
I'm going to use a smile more.

2518
03:54:46,550 --> 03:54:46,850
What happened?

2519
03:54:47,010 --> 03:54:47,150
Yeah.

2520
03:54:47,670 --> 03:54:49,570
So we want to thank you.

2521
03:54:55,510 --> 03:55:02,270
So, I think you probably, I saw you taking notes so you have feedback from Councilor

2522
03:55:02,270 --> 03:55:05,670
each Councillor, is that City Attorney? Did you have something to add?

2523
03:55:05,890 --> 03:55:13,510
I did. I just wanted to add one quick note. I didn't come up, so I don't want to create more

2524
03:55:13,510 --> 03:55:18,850
of an issue, but the general assembly through both these pieces of legislation identify

2525
03:55:18,850 --> 03:55:36,410
that these are matters of mixed and local concern, and if you've heard me talk about previously the sort of buckets when you do the home rule analysis, you've got matters of statewide concern, matters of mixed concern where the rules can't conflict as long as they don't conflict they can exist in harmony and matters of local concern.

2526
03:55:36,950 --> 03:55:46,650
I just wanted to highlight for the council that there are a few municipalities out there, there's not very many, at least on these issues, because I think there's a shared interest with the state.

2527
03:55:46,650 --> 03:55:52,450
But there are a few municipalities that are taking the view that some of these issues,

2528
03:55:52,670 --> 03:55:57,730
not these particular two pieces of legislation, but that anything having to do with land use,

2529
03:55:57,910 --> 03:56:04,070
more or less, is a matter of local concern under Article 20 Section 6 of the Carl Constitution.

2530
03:56:04,850 --> 03:56:07,550
That certainly has not been our position.

2531
03:56:07,730 --> 03:56:12,410
These options here give lots of flexibility to the council, ultimately.

2532
03:56:12,410 --> 03:56:16,350
But I thought I'd just mention that, that there's still this sort of tension between,

2533
03:56:16,930 --> 03:56:21,910
you know, the locality being able to do what it wants to do, and the state having

2534
03:56:21,910 --> 03:56:24,650
its reasonable objectives related to affordable housing.

2535
03:56:24,850 --> 03:56:28,010
So I'll even at that, I probably should have said anything, but I wanted to make sure

2536
03:56:28,010 --> 03:56:29,630
that that's kind of going on in the background.

2537
03:56:30,010 --> 03:56:32,850
Well, this will be coming back before I assume.

2538
03:56:33,130 --> 03:56:34,910
So appreciate that perspective.

2539
03:56:36,550 --> 03:56:37,850
You are not voting.

2540
03:56:37,990 --> 03:56:39,310
We don't vote in study sessions.

2541
03:56:40,410 --> 03:56:47,810
So again, thank you for the presentation, thank you for being here, everyone, we are adjourned.