Okay, we're ready.
» The March 9, 2026 regular meeting of the Malibu City Council is now called to
order. In-person participants, if you'd like to speak, please submit your
request to speak form to the clerk. We have one slip and only one person here,
so that makes sense. Remote participants, if you'd like to speak,
please join the Zoom webinar meeting printed on the agenda and raise your
hand in Zoom when the item you wish to speak on is called. It's going to be
called shortly. May we please have a roll call.
» Council member Conrad >> here.
» Council member Rigggins >> here. Council member Stewart
» here. >> Mayor Promarine
» here. >> Mayor Silverstein
» here. >> You have a quorum.
» Okay, we are getting feedback up here. So maybe that could be addressed during
the break.
» Okay.
» Do we have any remote speakers on the close session items?
» No, we don't have any speakers or participants on Zoom.
» Okay. Um we have one. We don't take a roll call for this, by the way.
» It's not on my um script. Kelsey, do we take a roll call?
» No, you don't need a roll call. There's no motion before the council at this
time to hear public comment. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, we have one
public speaker, Ann K.
» Hello everybody. My name is an an comarask or actually it's Anna according
to the secretary of state is Anna an A. It's an an K for everyone else. So, we
have two items here on the closed session and uh there's no information to
chat about other just to inform you that I would love to see a date and well
there's a date on there but a clock so that you can actually see what time it
is these meetings start as they countdown because you know what happens
between the close session and the open session so that kind of stuff. So, and
the other thing too, you'll probably see a little less of me here and there
because, you know, I have qualified to become nonpartisan governor of
California. Yay. So, they want me to further redact my taxes. They said more
of the President Trump style, but I don't know what that means. So, I need a
little help. So, but we're there. There's no official candidates for the
23rd or the 26th of the month. So, there you have it. So, just a update. And I
have no idea what you guys are talking about because I didn't say here, but
thank you
» mayor. Your microphone. >> That concludes public comment for the
close session item. We now will recess to close session to discuss the items
listed in the close session agenda. We will reconvene at 5:30 p.m. or as soon
thereafter as we are finished the close session to begin the regular session and
hear the close session report. We're recessed.
testing. Okay.
Well, I appreciate
That's not
I'm going to talk to her.
5:30.
So strange.
» [clears throat]
» The March 9, 2026 regular meeting of the Malibu City Council is now called back
to order. Inerson participants, if you'd like to speak, please submit your
request to speak form to the clerk. Remote participants, if you would like
to speak, please join the w the Zoom webinar meeting printed on the agenda
and raise your hand in Zoom when the item you wish to speak on is called. And
remember, the rule is raise your hand on Zoom before we call the item. And um
please and submit your blue slip before we call the item. May you please have a
roll call. >> Council member Conrad,
» here. Council member Rigggins, >> here. Council member Stewart
» here. >> Mayor Promirine
» here. >> Mayor Silverstein
» present. >> You have a quorum.
» Thank you. Scott, you want to lead us in the pledge of allegiance?
» Want to lead us in the pledge of >> allegiance?
To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it
stands. One nation indivisible with liberty and justice for
all.
May we please have a close session report?
» Oh, >> I can give you a report on the posting
of the agenda while we wait for the city attorney. The agenda for this meeting
was properly posted on February 27th, 2026. Due to technical difficulties with
the city's website, the staff reports for the meeting could not be posted
online at that time and were posted on March 3rd, 2026. The amended agenda was
properly posted on March 6th, 2026 with all associated reports.
» Thank you. So before we go on with the agenda,
Trevor, can you please give us a close session report?
» Absolutely. At 4:45 p.m., the city council met in open session, recessed
closed session, the absolute on the posted agenda. Council member Conrad um
was recused um from the discussion due to location of her home um and no
reportable action was taken. >> Thank you, Trevor. Okay. Um, can we have
an approval of the agenda? >> I can make a [clears throat] motion to
rearrange the agenda. >> Let's hear it.
» Um, can we move item 7B to after item three?
» Yeah, I'm anticipating that we will have um
people show up. So that's moving the snack shack to be heard after 6:30 but
before public comment for items not on the agenda.
» Correct. >> I'll second that.
» I This is discussion. >> I I I'm This is for discussion. Um there
have been some members of the public that have been critical and and I don't
fault them for it that um when we've moved things up that we've moved it
before general public comment. So, what I'd ask is a friendly amendment to move
it up, but move it up after general public comment, not before general
public comment. The other thing is, and I'm not opposed to it for this reason,
but some people have also said they plan their schedule when they want to speak
around the published schedule, and when something's late on the agenda, they
don't necessarily come to the meeting for the first hour or two knowing that
it's not going to get called till 8 9:00. And when we move something that is
scheduled late on the agenda to occur first thing or early on, they missed
their opportunity to participate. So I just raised that. It's not a basis for
not doing it tonight, but I just raised that. But I would ask that you amend the
motion to um have the item 7B occur after general public comment.
» So after 4 A, but before 4B. >> Sure. I let me see if I understand it
because I was I was going to make something similar. Uh move 7B
uh to the first item after 4B and before item five.
» Yeah, I I actually think that makes more sense.
» I think we're going to have a lot of kids here and our 4 A and 4B has often
times not been occurring until 7:30, 8:00. So, I'm trying to I know they're
not here yet, but I know they're coming. So, um,
» you know, everybody everybody knows that that's how these meetings work.
» How about how about this? Why don't we put it at 4 A [clears throat] and, um,
we can revisit it when we get closer to that time. If there's a lot of people
here, maybe we can >> make a motion to rearrange it again at
that point. >> Are are you you accept a friendly
amendment to move 7B following 4 A so long as it's after 6? Well, it'll have
to be after 6:30 because we can't take >> I don't think there's a question. We're
going to be after 6:30. >> Sorry.
» I don't think there's going to be a question.
» Agreed. >> We only have half an hour. Yes, I agree.
» I agree. >> Are you in a second?
» Yeah. >> So, the friendly amendment was accepted
to hear item 7B after 4 A and before 4B. >> Yes.
» Doug, are you going to be okay with that or
» I'm okay with that. Yeah. >> All right. All in favor?
» I I >> No opposed. So ordered. Okay. So the
agenda is approved with the change that 7B will appear after 4A.
Okay. We'll now consider the consent calendar. Remote participants, please
raise your hand in Zoom if you wish to speak on the consent calendar. I've got
one card going once, going twice. Is anybody signing up for consent calendar?
No. Okay. So would any >> Yes, we have one raised hand on Zoom.
» Thank you. Okay, so we have one live speaker or in person speaker, Joe
Drummond.
» Good evening, city manager Joe Irvin. Welcome, Bruce, mayor Silverstein and
city council. Thank you for allowing me to speak. Um, I'm pulling 1B10
which is obviously we want you to put through the property tax 110%. We want
that to be for all fire victims just to have the 110%. I was just wanting to ask
if um you'll be also I submitting something
about property taxes needing to be reduced for fire victims that have
burned down lots that are over evaluated like no lots in Big Rock for instance
are worth more than a million a million two because it's so hard to get a
rebuild permit right now averaging over a year to issue from submission. Jim
Rogers, one of my neighbors on Seabard, bought his home 2 and a half months
before the fire and he applied for the misfortune and calamity reduction and is
paying property taxes on $2.7 million for his lot for instance. So this is not
accurate or fair. And I just wanted to let you know Salwa is um arriving from
Dubai. She might even be here now. So she has the sales tax letter for you all
that she will submit to you. I know we that was another issue that you guys
were doing. So, that's coming. But, thank you for approving this. Thanks so
much. >> All right. Thank you, Joe. And um just
so everybody knows, members of the public don't can't pull items on the
consent. They can ask that we do that. So, I'll take that to be a request that
somebody on council pull that item. We have one speaker on Zoom.
» Yes. Ann.
» Hello. You hear me? This is Ann Kamaras. >> We hear you.
» Oh, sorry. I'm at Tony Terron. I'm supposed to have a dinner here with the
family. So, listen. Um, most of the stuff can be taken care of at the state
level. So, I appreciate uh your consideration for changing the public
comment time to be set in stone maybe perhaps at the beginning of the meeting.
But, um, whatever Joe Drummond said, I agree. Thank you.
Okay, that closes public comment. Um, would any council member like to pull
any item for further discussion?
» I'll make a motion to approve the consent calendar.
» Just want to confirm before that that nobody wants to pull anything.
» I'm not seeing the one that Joe Oh, wait. Because it's outside the packet. I
don't think we have to pull it, but we should discuss maybe later about the
other issue because I I think Okay, let's pull
1B10, please. >> Okay. Anybody else want to pull anything
else? >> I'll make a motion to approve the
consent calendar except for 1B10. >> I'll second.
» All in favor? >> I.
» Okay. All items except for 1B10 are approved. Halen, you wanted to speak
about 1B10. Do you want a staff report or just want to speak? I just wanted to
ask this is something totally different. This is one bill that we are as council
and the city is supporting property taxation, newly constructed
reconstructed property. There's a separate bill in which I believe Joe was
talking about where the residents are looking for support on sales tax on
items when they do. Do we have an update on that bill or if we're going to
support it or >> I I think since that's not the consent
item, you have to ask for that during council member comment.
» Got it. I'll put it down. Thank you. That's it. I approve.
» I'll I'll make a quick comment on it. I know uh the discussion was about
overpriced lots. Just to refresh everybody's mind on this, uh, when the
fires took place, the first thing the county assessor did, separated out the
the two categories that's on the property tax bill. One's improvements,
one's land. They immediately took the improvements off on the total destroyed
using the Cal Fire assessments as to what percentage was damaged and so
forth. Uh, the property uh, land values or whatever the land value was on the
tax bill. understand that the land values are not necessarily what the
market value is. And uh if you go back to 1978 or whenever Proposition 13
passed, those values at that time went up by 2% if you unless you bought the
property in the meantime. If they've got a problem with the assessed value, they
need to take that up with the assessor. They can actually file a claim for it
and the assessor's office will be glad to talk to about it. The county assessor
was here two weeks ago, I think it was, and um had the appraisal people here.
They're wide open to having discussions and looking for input on that. All you
have to do is file the claim. >> All right. Thanks. Helen, do you want to
make a motion to approve 1B10? >> May I make a comment first? Go ahead.
» Um I believe that meeting with the assessor was recorded and it would be
available on our city website or on YouTube. And so I'd recommend that
everybody because he he gave a very detailed uh Jeffrey Pring, our county
assessor, gave a very detailed um uh explanation of how assessments are done,
how they're calculated. Um I think it was a really good presentation. It's
good information for everybody to know regardless of your house was destroyed
or not. Um anybody at the county. So um just look on our website for that and or
on YouTube you can put it in. Um great information on there. Yeah,
» I'd like to add one more comment. It was a good session not just about the
property tax um valuations on your house that you might be paying. Now, it all he
also talked about how you can transfer that property tax value to another house
if you were going to move. Uh it's there's some intricate uh procedures for
it and it'd be good to listen to that uh uh type again.
» Does anybody else have any further comments? I make a motion to approve
item 1B10. >> Is there a second?
» I'll second. >> Thank you.
» All in favor? I. >> Okay. So, approved.
» Mayor, can I make a quick comment? >> As long as it's limited to the consent
calendar. >> No, we pass the consent.
This is about the agenda. >> Sure.
» There there were a number of posts I saw today talking about the roundabouts were
going to be on tonight's agenda. I don't see the roundabout people out there
tonight, but it is not going to be on tonight's agenda. Come back on the 18th
and it'll be the meeting. Thank you. >> Can I also add that there was a lot of
misinformation or information that tonight will have antennas and or 5G
polls being put up. That is not on tonight's agenda. So, if you're here for
that, please don't stay. >> The only thing on the agenda is what's
on the agenda. Okay. That brings us to 2A. Big Rock Landslide Facts. Community
Development Director Bundy will present a PowerPoint presentation.
» Yes. Good evening, council. Um I'm just introducing the team. Um the item before
you will be a tech a brief technical presentation uh to discuss the big rock
messa landslide status. With us, we have MB5 and Jen Associates. So I will pass
the presentation uh to them.
Thank you. Let's see. So, by way of introduction,
I'm Scott Morris. I'm a um certified engineering geologist and a certified
hydro geologist. I've been working in the Malibu area and surrounding Southern
California for 37 years. Uh I started working in Malibu in n well I I started
working for Malibu in the city uh in 1998.
Uh I was with Binguna Associates at the time and I managed the landslide
assessment districts for 6 years and then for two more years at Fugro after I
moved to Fugro and we carried the contract with us. So I've got a lot of
experience in Malibu. Uh been out of town for a little while but uh I'm glad
to be back. Recently hired as the uh um >> You might need to move your microphone a
little closer. a as the fire rebuild uh geotechnical review manager.
» And Lori, >> yeah, my name is Lori Barry. Um I'm a
project I'm a [clears throat] senior project manager and engineer for the A
and Associates. I have 23 years of geotechnical consulting experience in
Southern California. I'm the current project manager for the landslide
assessment assessment district project for the public works department here in
Malibu and have uh held that for the last six years and four years prior to
that at FURO. I also managed the landslide assessment districts for the
city. >> So there's a outline uh we're limited on
time so I'm just going to jump right into the first slide. Um the little
history on the Big Rock Mesa landslide. Um historically the Big Rock Mesa area
was used for agriculture and cattle ranching. Um
that production
led to the development of the Ocean Mutual Water Company which operated tin
water wells for domestic supply and agricultural support. Um so those uh
water wells operated for decades and effectively helped dewater the landslide
area. Um the tract was permitted in the early 1960s
for development and over the next 20-ish years 216 homes were de were built on
the landslide area uh all of which had septic systems. uh following uh heavy
rainfall years in 1978 and 1980 culminating in one of the
wetest years on record in 1983. Um the landslide started to creep
actively. It had been incrementally creeping in the late '7s and then it
started moving much more rapidly. It was moving at about a quarter inch a week,
which doesn't sound like a lot, but if your house is near the crack, that's a
problem. Um, uh, major lit litigation ensued. Um,
one of the outcomes of that litigation was Bing Yin and Associates was retained
by Los Angeles County to do a very comprehensive evaluation of the
landslide. Um and the other thing that led out of that was the establishment of
the landslide dewatering district. Um one last note, there's 355 landslides in
mapped by the California Geological Survey in Malibu and Big Rock Mesa is
the largest. Um so here is a map of the Big Rock Mesa landslide area. This is
the main landslide mass. Uh there's dozens of homes on the western extension
uh which is not in an actual landslide area, but they their sole access is
provided through the landslide area. So they're part of the benefit assessment
district. Um there's also scores of of surficial
bluff failures just above PCH all along the the um the bluff there.
Uh the next slide is a cross-section through the SL through the landslide. Um
down that line here's the landslide mass. Uh a couple of interesting things
about this landslide. It's very deep. It's over 400 ft thick. It fails over
100 ft below sea level. Um, uh, we can trace, uh, geologic beds
across the landslide. And
see if I could use my pointer here. Uh, and I can trace this bed back to
this bed and this bed back to this bed. And we can use that to estimate that the
landslide moved between three and 500 feet over the course of its uh lifespan
which was thousands of years. Um in 1983 it's estimated it moved on the order of
3 to 4 feet. Uh and if you push that back three or 4
hundred feet uh of movement, the hill used to look like that.
Um, so talking about uh how the C California Geological Survey has
classified the landslide, CGS classifies the Big Rock Mesa landslide as an active
historic landslide. Um, they define it as definite, 100% [snorts]
confident it is a landslide. There's no question about that. Um
the definition the California Geological Survey's definition of the active
historic landslide is the landslide appears to be currently moving or
movements have been recorded in the historic past. So any landslide that's
moved in the historic past they consider to be active. The next definition down
there list of four definitions is dormant young and the landforms related
to the landslide are relatively fresh but there is no record of historic
movement. So this definition which is the next one down clearly does not apply
to big rock. It it moved in 1983 clearly and definitively. As a side note, I'd
mention that the city of Los Angeles building code defines an active
landslide as a landslide that has been active at some point since January 1952.
Um the most important point though is
[clears throat] what's most important for permitting or policym
making is not the fact is not the whether you call it an active landslide
or a dormant landslide. Uh what's important to policym is the factor of
safety of the landslide. So the factor of safety of a landslide in
essence is the resisting forces divided by the driving forces. So the resisting
forces or the driving forces are governed by the mass of the upper
portion of the landslide. um the amount of water in the landslide
and the increased pore pressure that that water puts on the slide plane. The
resisting forces are the mass of the lower portion of the landslide and the
um shear strength of the slide plane, the rupture surface that the slide
plane's failing on. Uh what's worth noting is the only thing
that changes over time year to year, season to season, is the amount of water
in the landslide. Um the mass of the upper slide, the mass of the lower
slide, the sheer strength of the slide plane, those are all fixed and
relatively constant. So what governs the current stability of the landslide is
the amount of water that's in it. That's why we have the dewatering district. So
the groundwater levels in 1983 on this cross-section line looked about like
like this blue line here. Uh by 1992 after a few years of active dewatering
the water levels were lowered over 100 ft in the central Mesa area and current
water levels are almost at about the same level that we got them to in 1992.
So, we're keeping up with septic influent period periodic rainfall. Um,
and I'll hand it over to Lori for a moment.
» Steal the mouse. >> Hi, thank you, Scott. Yeah, I just
wanted to point out that the the main purpose of the landslide assessment
district is to fund the equipment and the maintenance and evaluations that are
needed to look maintain these lowered groundwater levels and also to monitor
for potential landslide movement. We do this through active dewatering system
consisting of 24 dewatering wells and 36 horizontal drains. We monitor the slope
um through 23 slope inclinometer casings. We can measure if there's any
shear deformation at those locations and we monitor the groundwater levels at 29
different monitoring points throughout the district.
We also track pavement cracks or changes in pavement cracking. Um and then we
also track the two items that of water that go into the landslide on any basis
are the imported water usage and septic systems and rainfall.
So this [snorts] graph represents uh presents the historic deatering of the
Big Brock Mesa landslide dating back to 1983.
The blue shading. Oops.
Okay. Uh the blue shading is represents the uh portion of the deatering output
that is from the deatering wells and the green is the portion of dewatering from
the hydrogers. The red is the sum of of the total
deatering from both of those deatering methods.
Why I find this graph really interesting is that it really points to how dramatic
the initial dewatering was following the um when the landslide moved in 1983 and
the efforts that were made to dewater and lower the groundwater levels to over
100 ft. Following that initial period of dewatering, you can see that the cycles
um even from back to the early 90s remain relatively constant um at or at
least uh static and predictable where we do see spikes in the data all coincide
to where there were historic high rain seasons. Um and that that's where all
these spikes uh all cor correspond to that and that shows that the dewatering
system increases but it's keeping up with the increased water from rainfall
that's entering the system. Here I just wanted to point out that the
deatering output was at its all-time low following the January 2025 Palisades
fire. That was due to no electricity to power the deatering wells.
there was a surge of dewatering in um spring once we were able to get most of
the deatering wells at least running intermittently. And so that that just
shows there was kind of a surge to lower those groundwater levels that may have
risen a bit from January. And then here we are last month kind of right back on
track to where we would predict to be in annual deatering output.
This is a graph of imported water usage to the Landside Assessment District
dating back to 1993. This is um this is the other item
besides rainfall that adds water to the assessment district. And just what I
wanted to show point out on here again is that the imported water is at an
all-time low um following the January 2025 fire. [snorts] And that the bottom
line is that the dewatering discharge increases in response to rainfall and in
response to these water usage demands to maintain the lowered groundwater levels.
the system essentially keeps up with the demand um of imported water and
rainfall. And then finally, I just wanted to
highlight some of the extensive repairs that were done on the facilities within
the landside assessment district. We repaired and replaced over 90 watering
well pumps. Um we replaced almost all of the electrical control panels and
enclosures and Edison meter panels with new stainless steel equipment. We had to
pull and replace over 5,000 ft of damaged wiring. We had the dewatering
wells. Uh we have them running intermittently now both on metered and
generated power to keep up with the demands of the system and maintain
lowered groundwater levels. Um the other uh exciting improvement was we were uh
as when the city was working on the storm drain pod drain project, the
municipal storm drain, we were able to uh consolidate the drainage and consolid
conveyance piping for the dewatering uh system. And all [snorts] of those
repairs should be completed are expected to be completed by April of this year.
So in conclusion and summary um California Geologic Survey classifies
the Big Rock Mesa landslide as an active historic landslide.
What's most important and guides permitting and policym is generally the
factor of safety of the landslide. The factor of safety is controlled by the
whatever the groundwater levels are. So we need the dewatering system to
maintain um
to lower water levels and maintain a safe uh factor of safety. The current
factor of safety is uh believed to be about 1.25
which is below the typically required 1.5 factor of safety for a len for a
stable development. Um and it's 1.25 25 is just marginally
above the the level the factor of safety where you'll start seeing creep movement
in a landslide which is typically between about 1.1 and 1.2. So we're just
a little bit above that. Um and that's uh that's what the deatering system is
capable of maintaining as it currently is configured. Um the three elements
that influence groundwater levels are rainfall uh septic input and dewatering.
rainfall every decade we get a we get a couple of doozy years and uh the system
has been able to keep up with that. Septic's relatively constant for most of
the time. Right now it's at a historic low. Um groundwater levels remain
stable. Septic input is currently at historic lows. Uh no discernable
movement has been detected in the landslide for [snorts] at least the last
decade. um that's based on inclinometer data and synthetic aperture radar which
is a fancy form of satellite radar. [snorts] Um
and then the last point is the Bing and Associates report was a very
comprehensive and state-of-the-art report prepared in 1992
and despite technological adv advances in things like software the physics and
the science have not changed and the factor of safety evaluation remains
valid today. That is the end I think of our
presentation.
Thank you. Does anybody have any questions?
» Uh yeah, I've got on your factor of safety. Um when you show 1.25,
what's going to be a factor that might change that to a lower number where we'd
have a creep. And secondly, I assume that applies across the entire landslide
area. Are there pockets that are at higher risk than others?
There are pockets in in the Bingan and Associates report when they really did
the evaluation. If I get all the way back there,
this slide, there's
there's I showed you if I can get my cursor over here.
Where's the cursor? Help
me Lori. Where's my cursor? >> Oh,
» maybe it has to. >> It's not showing up over there. It's got
to there. Okay, I got it now. Sorry. So, I showed you this slide. Each of these,
this is another cross-section. We had cross-section A, B, C, D, E, and F which
was evaluated, which were all evaluated. They were actually
they went well through the alphabet. Um each cross-section had its own factor of
safety. Um D was typical and runs right down the middle. So that's the one I
presented. And but in general, the factor of safety for the
area is about 1.25. That's a reasonable average. And and changes in groundwater
are what govern the change in the stability.
» All right. So the changes in the groundwater uh obviously we're
dewatering and it looks like it's holding over the past decade multiple
years. Uh is there anything that would cause that to rise in spite of our
dewatering system or is the watering system the only only thing to be
considered?
» So the the big variable is rainfall. We get wet years. Uh but it is essential
that we maintain and limit the amount of water that's input into the slide
through septic systems which is why we have controls on development on the
mesa. You're not allowed to add you can add small additions but you
can't add plumbing fixtures. Um, and it we're always uh as we do reviews and and
geotechnical input um we're always encouraging homeowners to uh have limit
irrigation uh because that's a big input. Um
so controlling water into the slide is is what we need to do. We can't control
rainfall. we can make sure, which Lori pointed out, uh they're replacing all
the surface drains because all those pipes were mostly HDPE and they all
melted. Um and uh so restoring that carries rainwater through the storm
drain system off the mesa. So that's a big improvement and an essential
improvement. Um so but that's how we control this landslide. it. This
landside is simply too large to use a traditional
concrete queson, uh, tiebacks, things like that. Uh,
they're they're too small compared to the mass of the landslide. You've got to
control the groundwater. It's the only way to control the stability of this
landslide is a practical matter. >> Okay. Thank you very much.
» Um, yeah, I'll piggyback on that. I think
» [clears throat] >> Thank you for all of that as well. Um,
sometimes I in my mind I think of all of these properties rebuilding at once and
it causing kind of disturbance to the land regardless of water because I hear
that this is all about water and dewatering. Um, but for an active
landslide, which I'm hearing it is a historic active landslide, construction,
would that have anything to do with movement?
Not really. What I mean adding you're you're going to restore these septic
systems, right? >> Which will contribute, but that's just
going to bring it back to where we were. We're at historic low septic influent
right now. >> So, it's not like jackhammering all at
the same time. And >> that is inconsequential.
» That's good for me to question, but it's good for me to know.
» It simply becomes dimminimous. Um, also, you know, speaking of the sewer
possibility, people have asked why not go up Big Rock. And I think the answer
was to people don't want the price and they also don't want the development.
But would sewer help the big rock slide and the dewatering this whole watering
system? >> Yes, it would.
» Yes. Yes. A sewer would be a tremendous benefit to the mesa. I mean,
» we understand the development concerns, but but uh you know, as far as the
landslide stability, it would be a tremendous benefit.
» Good to know. Um where does the water go from the deatering system?
» It runs through a series of conveyance piping. So before the fire um it it
connected at individual facilities on different streets for the deatering
wells run into the the closest storm drain catch basin and followed the
city's municipal storm drain system down to um PCH where then it goes into a calr
culvert under PCH and outlets at discharge locations on the beach
» to the ocean. Yes. >> Okay. And then I was wondering would it
be um feasible or too expensive to ent trap the water and then use it again
because we know that Big Rock doesn't always have water like other
neighborhoods in Malibu to ent trap the water and then reuse it. Is that maybe
out that's a public works? I don't know. But instead of having it all go to the
ocean >> instead it would
» I think that just brings up a slew of other complications. water treatment
would be required, all sorts of monitoring. Um,
» okay. >> But it it's as feasible as as sewer.
» Um, and I wasn't sure if you knew the answer, but residents pay for this
through an assessment district, which is, and I don't know that number, and I
should. Does anybody know that number?
» Like, one, two, or three? I mean, I know the number of what our
budget is for the actual monitoring and maintenance of the for of Big Rock is on
the order of $350,000 a year. Oh, okay. Thank you. 350 a year. Um, okay. And
then I heard that there's no electricity on the deatering system. So, let's say
the power goes out, there's a big fire, and then it's not doing its job, but
then there's a huge amount of water being pushed into the mountain because
they're trying to get the fire out. Would that cause a landslide or could
that >> um do you
» Well, you have multiple things going on. You lost all the dewatering system
because all the all the electric infrastructure burned up.
» That's right. Um, simultaneously you lost all the septic system inputting
water because all the houses burned down and there there was this temporary slug
of firefighting water, but that becomes pretty trivial. I mean, it was a lot of
water for a few days, but it it doesn't amount to much in the overall stability,
long-term stability of the slide. That is sort of a flash in the pan that goes
away. >> Got it. And I was absent of a huge fire
that was like palisades, you know, moderate PSPS, which is a public safety
power shut off. Does your system have backup power?
» We have several um contractors that we can call on a moment's notice to bring
out temporary generators and portable generators uh within a day.
» Um yeah, >> that's great. Um, okay. And then are
there any other active landslides in Malibu?
» Yeah, there's the Cayaba Bargo landslide and the Malibu Road landslide.
» The Malibu Road. >> Yes, that's correct.
» Got it. Thank you. I wanted to ask that. And then
» those are the landslide assessment districts, but there are scores of
active landslides in the city of Malibu. >> Okay.
» Active or historic? >> Both active and I mean not not
necessarily actively move. If you're talking to a geologist,
If a landslide has moved in in recorded history, it's considered active. That's
the general accepted definition. There's multiple definitions of what is active
and not, but but the the widely held consideration is what the
California Geological Survey defines it as. If it's moved within history, it's
considered active. >> Okay, that's my questions.
Thank you. >> I guess mine's kind of a big question
and I apologize for not prepping it earlier, but so we have all these
questions, you know, about geology reports, geotechnical reports, things
like that. And if the houses were standing before, why can't they just put
back the same house that they had? Why do they have to do additional reports?
So maybe you can just give a little opine on
» well why we need this. >> Well, a lot of these homes were built in
the '60s. >> And so in essence they can they can
rebuild what they had. That's that's the the the policy. But they have to comply
their foundations have to comply with the building code, the current building
code. So they can rebuild the same house um
plus 10% volumeish. Um but the foundations have to comply
with the building code. And some of the homes
uh the original foundations don't comply
with the original the the current building code. So they have to upgrade
their foundations and then they can put their house on top of their new
foundations. It really comes down to a code
compliance issue with regards to current code standards.
» Yes. I mean that's required for >> following the LMA Pria earthquake in
1989 and following the 1994 Northridge earthquake, building codes were upgraded
substantially to address primarily the seismic but other hazards that we faced.
And so codes have advanced and they're somewhat more stringent now. And so your
foundations, if your foundations were built in 1963, they'll need to be
upgraded. >> Thank you. A good presentation. I
appreciate it. Thank you, >> Steve. Any questions or comments?
» No, just I agree. I think this this is very helpful. So, thank you very much.
I' I've learned a lot. So, thank you. >> So, I just have one question, which is
what's the headline? What's the What's the big takeaway from this presentation,
if anything? I I think it's Lor's presentation that
the dewatering system is doing a good job keeping up with the you know
the big thing that changes year to year is is the amount of rainfall we get and
that has a substantial consequence to the stability of the landslide. And if
it wasn't for the dewatering system, we would lose that battle. And you know, it
it would be the the tract was developed in the 60s and 70s. And after it was
fully built out, it very quickly started to fail. Um once it got all those 216
homes and all their 216 septic systems putting water into the landslide, it
very quick it started creeping in the 70s and it started active failure in the
in the early 80s. U it didn't take long once all those septic systems were
putting water in. uh whereas and the other thing that had happened is as I
had mentioned there was this ocean mutual water system that had been
dewatering the landslide not intentionally just for municipal supply
water for decades before but the housing pushed all those wells out and so they
stopped dewatering and they started putting septic in and and the slide
failed rapidly. >> Okay, thank you.
That takes us to commission committee city manager update. I have three cards
for commissioner updates. There are no commissioners online right on Zoom.
[clears throat] >> Correct. We don't have any virtual
commission updates. >> Okay, Scott Dick, you're up.
Thank you, uh, Mr. Mayor and Council and Joe. Um, that was a great report. as a
public works commissioner for that last decade. Um we've gotten the reports on
this on the big rock and the other uh watering districts, dewatering
districts. And what we've seen, of course, is what was just presented is
that over that time period, um it's been stable.
And if it's been stable, then
what we call it a landslide for rebuilding,
it seems like we don't have any problem. Um, but Halen brought up something I
wanted to address. All that water goes out into the ocean.
Now, the gentleman mentioned that the fire department when they come and
they're trying to put out houses, lots of water. Except I'm going to remind
you, the fire department did not come to Big Rock or any of the other canyons.
So, that wasn't a contributing factor. But
there wasn't water there to fight a fire.
Now it comes back to public works. We would like you guys to direct staff
and the public works commission to investigate
the possibility of using
that water somehow. I don't see why you'd treat it cuz you're talking about
using it for fire purposes only to build a tank at the top of Big Rock. Now, this
just seems logical to me. I'm not an engineer, but it seems like if we could
take a bunch of water and have that available,
um I know it's not going to take we're not going to use all the water, but the
easiest part have a big tank so that if excuse me, when there's another fire,
we can use that water to have at least a resource for our
firefight. writers. So, I don't know if it's feasible, but I think we should
investigate it. So, please send that over to public works
commission. We will investigate. Maybe it's way too expensive, but maybe it's
possible. So, let's look at what we can do to make our town a little bit safer.
Thanks, >> Scott. Is is that a public works
commission request or you just raising that on your own right now? Um, as a
public works commissioner, I am bringing that to you.
» Was that was that something that the public works commission voted to have
you present to? >> No, it it was not.
» Okay. What I'm asking is let's see if we could investigate. Thank you.
» Sure. >> Um, Judy Viblanca.
Good evening, Mayor Silverstein, members of the council, city manager. Um, I am
the current chair of the parks and recreation commission and I'm here to
update you on some of our activities. I also want to recognize the other
commissioners, Jake Lingo, Dane Scophammer, Georgia Goldfarb, and Alicia
Peak. Uh, first, we are excited beyond belief that our permanent skate park was
opened on Saturdays and Sundays on February 14th. Yes. Since opening, an
average of 20 to 30 people per hour have been enjoying it. The park is still
closed Monday through Friday uh because construction continues for landscaping,
irrigation, fencing, and the restrooms. Tonight, the council will be reviewing
the commission's recommendation for the preliminary design of the Malibu Bluffs
Park snack shack with associated storage for youth sports, which has been at the
front forefront of the commission's work plan since 2023.
commission has worked very hard to bring the best design forward and limit costs
as much as possible while providing the needed facilities. All of the
commissioners, many who you'll hear from later, um strongly support this project
as a vital amenity for this park where our youth sports and skate park are
centered. This will really be a great community building asset. We realize
each parks and wreck project requires significant funding and as the
commission continues to work with you on developing desired recreational
facilities for our community. We would ask the council to consider developing
an infrastructure to allow private funding to be solicited to supplement
city funds so we can complete these projects. Um some upcoming events
include the nominations for the 2026 Jay Caredian Award are now open until
Tuesday, March 31st. Uh the nomination form is available at
maliboucity.org/jake award and this award is presented
annually to an individual or group that contributes to the betterment of parks
and recreation in Malibu. Uh the 15th annual shoe day pow and intertribal
gathering will be at Bluffs Park March 28th to 29th. There will be free
shuttles from city hall and theoki property since there's no on-site
parking. There will be Native American dancers, drummers, and singers in
addition to artists and vendors and food trucks. Please join the celebration and
you can find more information at malib city.org shumash day. Um the parks and
recck commission is also responsible to oversee the earth friendly management
policy in our city parks which which includes the elimination of herbicides,
pesticides and rodenocides. Um we are proud of what we have accomplished and
we have several goals and outreach opportunities to achieve in 2026. We
hope these efforts will provide a model for everyone in Malibu to become more
aware of protecting our unique habitat and implementing these principles on
their own properties. Um some other projects that we have in the works are
um the staff is working with Tranquist Riders and Ropers to develop a community
use agreement and potential restoration plan for the equestrian center. Um staff
is also working with commissioners to see if we can do a dog park at Los
Flores Park which is currently being restored after major fire damage. Um,
I'll just end by inviting the community to attend our meetings the third Tuesday
of the month at 6:30 in the multi-purpose room. Thank you.
» Thank you, Judy. >> Mel May.
Good evening, council members. Welcome, city manager Irvin. We had a safety
meeting last week. I spoke with Chair Spiegel who's in attendance tonight and
just wanted to run down a few things that we're working on which people may
be aware of may they may not be. Um first off I would like to
plead with everybody if you see something say something because a lot of
things that people see they think people are going to fix but they don't fix
them. I got a I was party to an email where somebody hit something in PCH tore
up their tire. They were stranded. So if you see something see something in the
highway report it to um Susan Dwayne's office here at the city public works or
CALR.
We discussed a lot of topics last week. One of the first things that came up was
uh Mayor Silverstein's appointment Alexis brought up the recent fatality on
Malibu Canyon and so we discussed that a little bit. Uh, I've worked on Malibu
Canyon in the Krails and the guardrails for over 10 years with Jennifer Denakoa
many years ago and I was on the safety commission previously. I've reached back
out to the county to see if we can get some accelerated action to try to make
that highway safer as the traffic gets more congested this summer. Uh, other
things that were discussed were the Corell Canyon intersection and the
safety there, West Winding Way and the overcrowding that's going on there. uh
crosswalks and safety there. I've had a friend that was hit by the Zoomerz
crosswalk and I actually almost got hit in that crosswalk, too. So, we've talked
about safety and crosswalks. The city has put up some new high visibility
yellow signs along Cross Creek and uh Civic Center, and uh I've reached out to
them to try to redo some stenciling for some of the worn lines there so people
will be safer there. Also, the Zuma underpass, we are pushing forward to try
to get some action on that to get that open. So, that last weekend again, uh
there wasn't enough people taking money at the parking lots and so and the
underpass wasn't open and so traffic backed up on PCH. So, you've got PCH
gridlocked because of a couple very simple things to fix. So, we're working
on that. Uh the fire leaison made a nice presentation. in the city for those of
you that don't know that that has a department for fire safety. They have
some very educated fire liaison people which will come out to your property,
inspect the property, give you suggestions, defensible space, brush
clearing, and also home hardening techniques. So, it's a it's very helpful
on many different levels. So, please reach out. Um,
uh, we have the council members, as I mentioned, Alexis is on there. We have,
uh, Richard Garvey who's on CERT, Brian Merrick, who's been a realer and has
been in this town forever. And so, we've got some good depth on the count on the
commission right now. And we'd love to hear from people if they have any
suggestions about things to work on. And, um, there's also water storage. You
know, we've had a problem with water storage in the past. It will in this
fire. >> Thank you. So, we're pressing for more
water. >> Okay. We received one slip late and we
already heard one person from the public works commission. So, sorry.
» We're going to move to the um city manager update.
» Yes. Good evening, mayor, members of city council, and members of the public.
Joe Irvin. Uh hello, community of Malibu. Happy to be here today. Uh, a
few items I'd like to update everyone on is, uh, the council members, uh, Riggins
and Conrad, uh, celebrated Malibu Village Books. Uh, we highlighted the
store's resilience through the recent fires and its role as a community hub.
Uh, part of this is part of the city's ongoing efforts to support our local
businesses from Palisades Fire. Uh, and resources are available via Malibu
Rebuilds.org related to these efforts. Also as part of the public works project
uh the signal synchron s syn synchronization
uh we are connected to real- time video feeds on traffic conditions on PCH it's
now available on the CALR website tiny URL back or.comcalrans
traffic cams we'll make sure that's clear on the city's website this is part
of the city's PCH uh signalization uh safety projects
community services has recently installed three new public telescopes at
the whale watching uh spot. This is at Malibu Bluffs Park. Two have stepups and
one is wheelchair accessible. These are significantly better than the aging
telescopes that we're breaking down. Uh it's a great tool for our kids and
adults to watch whales uh and observe the coastline and our beautiful views
for education purposes and just enjoyment uh outside.
Uh some of you may know about the uh executive order that was issued uh
probably 45 60 days ago uh from the [clears throat] president. Uh there's
been some talk in the community about the Small Business Administration
guidance that's being given out to those who have received uh funding from SBA.
Uh, I just want to state for the record and to make it very clear that city
building permit codes, fire safety codes, county building codes, all still
shall be met. Uh, if you plan to rebuild, get in the door with the
Yolanda Bundy's uh, office to get your expedited permit and follow the rules
that are in place to ensure you uh, build properly and consistent with local
codes. With that, I would like to turn it over
to Director Bundy to give a brief overview of our rebuilding process.
» Thank you, city manager. Um, and thank you, city council. Uh, just a brief
update where we are with our fire rebuilds. Um,
currently, uh, we have, um, we are close to the 37, uh, permits issued. We're
working with three more families uh to uh issue permits this week. So that will
give us 40 of those homes for our families are being built. Uh we have so
far 629 total building permits issued on that
affected area and with 176 uh planning approved uh homes.
I also wanted to share with the uh council and with the community that this
morning staff met with the rebuilds on capitans uh Darren Graves uh Joe
Drummond Lu Tenna and um both of our council members Rean and Conrad to
continue talking about our better ways to streamline the process. And one of
them was uh we are creating a master uh rebuild guidelines that provide will
provide a clear easy to follow roadmap for all of our families. We also um had
another meeting in regards to the rebuild website to make sure that our
documents uh as per Darren's comments last week follow the policy and that
direction of uh of council. I feel confident that with this efforts, we're
getting to a point that we're collaborating with the community. We're
getting things move forward. And lastly, um just want to share with you a few
events that are coming. uh one that will happen tomorrow at at the council
chambers from 12 to 2 with the zone capence uh to continue talking about
those geotechnical guidelines and provide clarity uh to those families
that still uh feel that they need a little bit more clarification that will
take place here at the council chambers. Uh we will also be hosting on Wednesday,
March 11, a design professionals meetings. To all of our design
professionals that are out there, uh please we uh urge you to attend. This is
to continue answering questions as they are the ones that are submitting the
projects for review and we want to continue um discussing any other uh um
questions that they might have or ideas that they might bring on board. Uh so
please uh we uh urge you to uh join us on Wednesday 11th and then March 24 uh
all of our families. Uh we really want to have a a gathering and this is uh
with the intent to uh invite families that have already been through the
process on policies fires and so they can give the uh the feedback to the ones
that haven't submit to those 307 families that haven't submit so they can
um know that it is doable it is possible and the city is committed to continue
helping them. And with that I conclude my presentation. Thank you so much.
» Thank you uh Yolanda. And I believe we have uh Sergeant uh Solderland who's
here to give a brief update. Mayor, >> before we move to Sergeant Southern,
does any council member have any questions of Yolanda?
» Just uh curious, how close are we to getting uh certificate of occupancy on
any of those permits? >> Uh the closest one is uh Denise
Tubberman. Uh she is located on the Big Rock area. She right now they are uh
doing the framing. We estimate within the next six months uh she will be
calling for a certificate of occupancy.
» Any other questions? >> Thank you.
» You're welcome.
» Good evening, city council. Welcome, city manager Joe Irvin. Look forward to
uh partnering with you and working with you. Um I have the crime statistics for
the month of February for the city of Malibu. Uh in February there were 15
part one crimes reported. Uh this brings the total for the year to 32 and that
compares with 42 from the same time last year. So that's a almost 24% decrease.
So still the crime trends are still trending down. So that is good to
[snorts] see. A couple notable incidents that happened uh over the past several
weeks. Uh the first one uh both of these involved uh homeless individuals. So the
first one happened on February 24th at about 1:00 in the afternoon. Uh this was
in the 23,000 block of PCH at Malibu Village books. Um the suspect had set up
uh a tent on the location, which is private property, and a security guard
at the location um went to have that individual leave the the property. Uh
the suspect then took out a pair of scissors and threatened to stab the
security guard. Um deputies were called and while they were on the way, the
suspect gathered their belongings and left on foot. uh a California State
Parks officer was nearby and that uh security officer flagged the California
State Parks officer down and who followed the uh suspect to um Legacy
Park and the deputies were able to locate the uh suspect and take him into
custody and he was arrested for felony criminal threats and brandishing a
weapon in this case the scissors. Um, [clears throat]
another notable incident that happened uh on February 28th at about 9:30 in the
morning at the Starbucks on Malibu Road. Um,
uh, the victim was seated outside of the Starbucks. Uh, when she overheard the
suspect arguing with an employee in the location about being asked to leave the
premises. As the suspect walked away, he suddenly swung his right arm in a
punching motion towards her, knocking over the drinks on her table. Uh the
suspect then swung his right arm again and this time hit her on the shoulder
with a closed fist. The suspect immediately fled on foot. Um when the
deputies got there, the suspect was gone. But later in the day, a witness to
this incident actually located uh the suspect walking on PCH about a mile from
the Starbucks and had the presence of mind to call the sheriff's department
and deputies were able to apprehend that suspect. So, thank you to that witness.
uh that suspect was arrested for elder abuse because the victim in this case
was 71 years old. So um thank [clears throat] you for that to that
witness for being a good witness. Um
finally over the past weekend uh Parker you can pull up the uh the DUIS. So, the
Malibu VOPS were out on patrol this past weekend and uh if you can see and uh
they were patrolling the area on PCH near Tranis when they noticed a vehicle
that was driving erratically and they thought the uh driver may have been
having a medical emergency or was possibly under the influence and they uh
used the radio to to have the deputies respond and the vehicle was pulled over
and inside the uh vehicle, they've located a nitrous oxide bottle and also
that French bulldog there and they determined that the suspect was under
the influence of not only alcohol but nitrous oxide and were able to arrest
him for driving under the influence. So kudos to the VOPs. Uh they're extra help
for us out there. They're outstanding and they did a great job over the
weekend. Um, finally, [clears throat]
uh, the sheriff's department and the fire
department went to Dukes last week. They had a a nice gathering for us for first
responders and that's int anticipation of their grand reopening this week. So,
uh, they will be open and they could, uh, use your patronage. So, please stop
by. The food was great. Um, also deputies from the sheriff station played
the middle schoolers at Malibu, um, middle school in a basketball game
game during their lunch. So, um, we won 26 to 23. Couldn't let the middle middle
schoolers beat us, but uh, it was a great event and it was a great time with
the kids and, uh, everyone had a great time. So,
um, finally, if you can bring up the flyer,
uh, if you would like to donate, we are doing a fundraiser for feeding military
families at the station. You can drop off, uh, any of those needed items
there. Um, they support, uh, the armed forces families at 29 Palms, Camp
Pendleton, Fort Irwin, and Los Angeles Air Force Base. So, the deadline to get
it to the station is this Wednesday. There's also a QR code there if you want
to uh contribute directly, but uh we're accepting donations at the station and
we'll transport it out to uh Sand Deus there. So, that is all I have. I'm
available if anyone has any questions. Does anybody have any questions?
» Steve, >> we played the high school kids and we
won. You say that with a little more confidence. [laughter]
Yeah, we uh it was probably the the hardest 20 minutes of my life.
[laughter]
» You know, you catch these homeless people with the guy with the scissors or
what happens to them when you arrest them?
» So, in that case, uh he was arrested for a felony. And so, uh and since it
involved a weapon, so that's a serious crime, they stay in jail until they see
the judge. So, uh, they have an arraignment date within 48 hours and
then it goes through the criminal justice system
» and typically they just get let go again. Is that I mean I don't
» So zero bail is in effect and so a lot of crimes um are released on citation
but in this case uh they were held in custody.
» We played the kids and we won. >> Anybody else?
» Thank you for your report. >> Thank you.
I don't have any more. Um, >> did you want to hear a law enforcement
update from the MRCA or under public comment?
» We we can hear from Ranger Tim now. >> Ranger Tim and
» thank you.
Good evening, mayor and city council members and city manager. Uh, I'd like
to give the MRCA uh, Coastal Ranger report. In the last month, a total of
276 st citations were issued involving park violations and illegal parking,
including littering, possession of alcohol, smoking in the back country,
and dogs off leash, as well as being in a closed area. Currently, we have
augmented staffing in Malibu due to recent wind events and for the for a
potential or prevention of a wildlife incident, wildfire incident. Correction.
And Parker, do you have the picture? Thanks. On February 9th,
we're almost there. There we go. On February 9th at Murphy Way Roadway,
there are three park signs that were defaced and vandalized by painting over
them. Currently, the signs were restored and are back to their original state.
Thank you. Thank you, Parker. Continuous uh ranger safety patrols were
implemented at Escanido Canyon Park due to the park visitors roadway safety and
navigation to the designated trails. A total of 876 pounds of trash was picked
up at our coastal area parks, including all beach accessways. Currently, there
have been no evidence of new encampments developments at Malibu Blust Park and
continuous patrols persist in the area. And this Oh, also a total of 875 pounds
of trash was picked up. I I said that before. And this concludes my ranger
report. Any questions? >> I do.
» Okay. >> Hi, Ranger Tim. How are you?
» Good. How are you? >> Great. Good to see you.
» Thank you. Likewise. Any details of the injury that happened yesterday? I think
somebody might have broken their leg on the hike.
» Oh yeah, absolutely. There was a uh there was a a female
» girl 18 years old that buckled her her ankle.
» So luckily we were on on scene and we went uh to her rescue. Luckily
everything was okay. the father, the parents were there and we put uh we
ministered first aid, put ice and um got her safely back to her her vehicle with
the parents. >> Thank you. Um any information about the
accident, the vehicular accident on PCH and East winding way from last week?
Yes, there's a a vehicle was going uh westbound and was trying to make the
turn, lost control, and then sideswiped another car that was parked on the
opposite side of East Waring Way. >> Yeah,
» I saw that. I saw the whole thing. I saw the Tesla was parked illegally and the
visitors that were coming, are they all okay? They were
» Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
» Um, so was this weekend a red flag weekend? It was really windy. It was
very windy, but not a red flag. >> Got it. Because you know we close the
parks during red flags. >> Absolutely.
» Yeah. Um and then I was wondering who gets the money from all of your
citations? Is it the city? Is it MRCA?
» Good question. Um that would I would have to ask the administration to see
where the funds do go >> and I could get back to you on that.
» I would love that. And then when you give citations, are they on PCH or are
they generally just in the 13 spot parking lot? just in the parking lot.
» So, you give all of those citations just in the parking lot. Well,
» sometimes we will issue citations adjacent to our parks.
» Yeah, >> it depends on severity and
» Wow. Um, I was also wondering, are you guys able to tow because there are cars
that park on East Winding Way and a lot of the residents there ask me if you
guys ever tow. >> Yes, we can. We do have the capacity or
we can tow a CHP 180. >> So would we call your Ranger company
phone number that I have that I would give that and then you guys would come
out and tow or do we have to because people call Lost Hills, it's a private
road so they can't actually tow. >> It depends on the area too. If uh if
it's on PCH um >> it depends if we have the time to to
wait for a tow and depends on severity. If it's a major public safety issue,
absolutely. We'll we will take the time to uh to get a tow truck out there and
then I heard about the vandalism. I'm sorry to hear that. There isn't I think
do can you confirm if there's a new sign at the uh Eddie Albert
trail head because that looks brand new,
» I believe. So, yeah, they restored all the all the uh deface signs that that
were in that area. >> Okay. Looks like different information
has been put up, but I'm not sure about that. Like new information on that sign.
» Could be. >> Okay. Yeah.
» How much is your smoking citation? >> Uh depending on red flag, uh they they
start at 175 and the red flag it could be $500
» or more. >> All right.
» And depends on whether we issue administrative citation
» or a notice to appear. >> Got it. Thank you so much.
» You're welcome. My pleasure. Any other questions? Anybody else?
» Thank you. >> Hey, you're welcome.
» You want to hear from CHP? >> There's no CHP reports are done. Thank
you, mayor. >> Great. Thank you.
» Okay, that takes us to written and oral communications from the public. It's
after 6:30, so we can get to that. Um, how many slips we have here?
» This is trying to see what item
» this is for for >> a
first. >> Okay,
» that's okay. Sorry about it. >> Okay, got a lot of slips. Are there any
people on Zoom?
» There are two raised hands. Okay, lock them down. So, we'll start with Scott
Toau, followed by Susie Chambers, followed by
Dean Wener. >> And mayor, I just want to know as you
called the item, we have four raised hands if you want to give everyone a few
seconds warning and then >> Okay, this is 4 A. And we'll give Zoom
10 more seconds. I'll let you count it down and if no one else raises your
hand, let us know. Thank you. Glaz Malibu Film Society wants to invite the
entire community to our Oscar party this Sunday at Alo Restaurant. There is no
fee to attend. The first drink is on us, either sparkling wine or sparkling
cider. All you have to do is register on our website. We have about 20 seats
left. Um I know we've had a fire, but it's been over a year and we wanted to
bring you up to date on several things related to the film society. As far as
our free screening series here at city hall, we've done five out of the 12 that
were budgeted under the grant. Hugely popular with attendance averaging around
150 a show. Almost all of the Malibu residents. We're told the AV system is
still unreliable. We can't do anymore. Um, when we first launched this series
in 2024, it was so successful that a member of this council asked us to
prepare a proposal to restore this room in a way that would let us bring
firstrun screenings back to Malibu. We did that. We presented the plans to this
council that October. Of course, then we had the fires later followed by a
request and hold off until we had a new city manager. So, welcome Joe. Looking
forward to working with you. Call me when you have time. Um, our big screen
install. We offered to put up a 24 ft screen here. Council voted last August
to approve it. What we wanted to do was a simple flat screen install behind the
curtains, but staff said, "Nope, it's got to be motorized. Got to be suspended
from the ceiling. It's going to weigh 500 lb. We have to re-engineer the whole
thing. We'll pay for it." Nothing's happened in the six, seven months since
then. Library speaker series. members of this council voted to uh award an 85 or
request an $85,000 grant from the library set aside funds so that we could
create a new free screening series which would celebrate the ongoing connection
between books and film which goes back well over a hundred years. Well, library
staff turned that down. Never told us why. We weren't even advised that we had
been turned down. Last August, we met with library subcommittee. this time got
some specifics on what was needed. We sent that very detailed updated proposal
last September and are still waiting for a response. Library staff now wants even
more information. Nobody will tell us what it is. Uh nor have they told
responded to our request for a sample invoice from the current speaker series
so that we can at least see how we should supply any requested financials.
We need this council's help. We are stuck in a bureaucratic morass. All we
want to do is help the city. So, please help us. Thank you. Thank you, Scott.
Susie, you're next.
» Do I push anything? >> Thanks.
Good evening and welcome to our city, Mr. Irvin, and nice to meet you, city
council. Hi, Maryanne. Um, I'm Susie Chambers and I am a longtime proud
member of Malibu. Thank you for this chance to speak tonight. I'm here
because 10 day 10 days ago, a bunch of Malibu residents received a notification
that the T-Mobile cell tower be fasttracking to be put on the public
utility easements within our residential areas, one of which polls is being
proposed at my home. I have grandchildren. I will homeschool them
there. I have a baby, a family over here that's pregnant. I have an elderly
couple here and here are surrounded. Our neighborhood is surrounded by people
that need their health and wellness. That being said, we understand that the
FCC does not comply with health standards for the restrictions of any
cell towers, but we would like to ask you as city council to represent us and
pushing those cell towers and places that would be in public areas. for
example, out on beaches and places where people people don't reside and sleep at
night. We also see the TMO see this um the T-Mobile cell towers as not
necessarily a public utility because they are not to be benefit
all of the utilities. They only benefit T-Mobile customers. So, we have concerns
with that and we have concerns with the permits that have been put forth by
Crown Castle via T-Mobile to the city that are not what is existing on the
poll, at least in my neighborhood. Um, we have so many people, probably 99% of
our street would like to decline the motion by T-Mobile and Crown Castle and
we are beseeching you as our representatives
20 years from now when your legacy leaving this office and my legacy
leaving my house to my children and and people that live there after me. I want
to be proud of what I've left behind. And if people are looking up and looking
at cell towers amidst our residential beautiful rural Malibu and all of our
streets that we've worked so hard to preserve nature and health and
environment and wildlife and we look up at cell towers 20 years from now because
these large corporations mowed over us as city members and residents, I think
we are all going to be highly upset by that. So, it's not been on an agenda and
we are beseeching you because tomorrow my letter is due to Crown Castle which
is on a shot clock which gives us an urgency and so we're asking you to
urgently look at this with us and on behalf of us as residents. Thank you.
» Thank you Dean.
Thank you. I did not know that we were going to get into the Big Rock
Assessment District earlier. I would have spoken then because that was my
subject. Um >> there was no public comment then anyway.
So this is your time. >> Excellent. Thank you. So relative to the
assessment district because it got into some questions that were coming up. Um
you know there's special and general benefits separated. The amount is
limited to the special benefit. Parcel receives direct and special benefit
distinct from the general public. Uh there's no regulated method for that
aortionment aortionment. I won't touch on the dewatering as they did a great
job about that. The two distinct benefits break down into protection of
property, protection of roads. That assessment was done by David toig and
associates in consultation with the city's geotech consultant and city's
public works. um the assessment district is properly represented as they did. Um
the special benefits basically break down protection which is reduced risk
and degree of damage distress suffered from slope failure. Road access
maintained for properties reached by roads benefits were deemed equal for
both property um and and the road uh to make sure that it could be enjoyed
properly. Since roads except for PCH do not convey through traffic, there is no
general benefit to the public for such road access. Um,
and then stabilization of the area. So, the method of assessment, which was a
question somebody raised, there's 348 assessments, 706.1 benefit assessment
units, that's calculated based on a single family or a condo/ apartment,
which also then has an assessment for what is called the average weekday trips
per unit. Um, without boring you with all of that detail, the points I wanted
to make is I would ask you to prop maybe agendaize this in the future to look at
this. I don't think the assessments are proper and the reasons being CALR
benefits more than any property in the assessment district based upon
equivalent area protection of property and the fact their parcel trip
generation factors are in excess of 1,500 times higher than the single
family home assessment per table C1 of the document. They receive far more
benefit than anyone and pay nothing towards it.
The city benefits from PCH for use of city employees, contractors, etc. City
benefits benefits from tax revenues, other things. Um, long story short,
there's a large group of us us beach owners that don't necessarily feel we
benefit the same because the drainage is at the PCH level, not below. We don't
contribute to the groundwater. But what we're really after because we think the
methodology is wrong is we want because of the situation on the roadway to get
better access to the roadway for rebuilding including no fees for
encroachment access to the roadway and K rails if necessary. So thank you.
» Thank you Jean. Okay. Next is Joe Drummond. Joe I see you have four
minutes and I see that your extra minute is here. Uh, Linda Eddie and then Clydy
Lane,
you have four minutes. >> Honorable Mayor Silverstein, city
council, I want to speak about the geotechnical review you heard today with
about Y from Yan Associates about the big rock landslide. These reports are
presented to you every year and reviewed after review by the public and public
works commission and they consistently show the same result. There has been no
meaningful change in the landslide conditions affecting our lots. As Yay
stated, there has been no discernable movement in over a decade. Our factor of
safety numbers coming out from the 30 to 50 extremely expensive and detailed so
reports that have been completed so far in Big Rock are all coming out between
1.95 and 2.1 well over the 1.5 limit for our lots. We are also all rebuilding
using low water fix lowflow fixture counts. So water import will be much
lower than before. thus reducing the risk further. If conditions have not
changed, why require additional geotechnical studies to rebuild homes
that stood safely for decades? Wildfire does not suddenly destabilize a
deep-seated landslide. The controlling factors are groundwater and soil
strength. And as Yay stated, our area is affected mainly by groundwater levels.
In Big Rock, the hillside has remained stable because of the well-maintained
dewatering system that residents and public works have monitored for decades.
Our homes that burned down were not speculative projects on unknown terrain.
They were functioning homes on lots that have already proven stable. I do hope
that the fire victims of Big Rocks are not paying for that presentation through
our assessment district and asked to fund yet another report confirming what
decades of monitoring have already shown, unless of course it helps us
finally streamline DI techchnical review. If homeowners are already
required to recompact and grade to improve stability and build stronger
foundations, upgrading to current building codes, why on earth are we
required another round of geotechnical studies on lots that have already
demonstrated and reported decades of stability? You heard it clearly tonight
that when a landslide area has been stabilized through drainage, rebuilding
homes that stood safely for 20, 30, even 50 years pose no additional risk
rebuilding. Meanwhile, major projects in Malibu, including 100 foot piles in
landslide zones without variances and the infamous 50 foot 5- foot retaining
wall behind the Malibu in hotel proposed received approvals without the same
level of geotechnical scrutiny. Thank goodness, a past city council stopped
the hotel project. But when modest fire rebuilds face more hurdles than major
new development, something is clearly wrong. These requirements also create
major delays. A soils report with redundant borings alone takes at least
four months with several more for review. Wave upbrush studies for beach
homes can take over a year, even when rebuilds must already meet FEMA plus 1
ft of elevation, which is often excessive already. Almost all of
Palisad's fire applications are like for-like rebuilds within the 10%
allowance, not speculative development. We should also be transparent about the
rebuild statistics. There are now over 233 applications submitted and 37
permits issued. This is barely over 15%, not the 45 or 75% presented at the
planning commission last week. I do appreciate you, Linda, giving straight
statistics tonight. Big Rock is at about 80 of these applications submitted also.
So, only about half have decided to rebuild. Being honest about where we
stand is the first step toward fixing the problem. These redundant
requirements do not make our homes safer. They only slow recovery. Even if
we approve all the applications in building plancheck today, we will only
be at 81 permits issued, not the 100 permit goal we had at the end of last
year. But hopefully you can help us get to this number faster. Please streamline
this process so all families in Big Rock and beyond can rebuild and come home.
That can start with the council directing staff to take these issues
into can into account at tomorrow's prescriptive geotechnical calculations
meeting and approach it with an open mind towards allowing prescriptive
rebuilding for lake forlike fire rebuilds up to 10% without unnecessary
additional soils reports unless required by a soils structural engineer. We don't
want another avenue for geotechnical consultants to demand more and more
reports that fire victims pay exorbitantly for. If homes stood safely
on these lots for decades, the default should be rebuilding, not another round
of studies. Thank you. >> Thank you, Joe. Linda,
» is Linda here? >> Okay. Um, Clay,
» pronounce your name right? >> Yes. Amazing Grace Clay Lane. Uh, good
evening Malibu City Council City Manager. So, I am also um wanting to
speak out about what Susan spoke out about. I live on Rainsford Place. So,
with regards to the 5G cell tower network and the increase of that setup
that's already there, um, my major concern is about
environmental impacts. This part of Malibu
supports a wealth of nature, bees, birds, and many other pollinators who
are already under extreme pressure from drought, habitat loss, climate stress.
And when this multiple wireless site, when it overlaps in a small area, the
cumulative environmental footprint should definitely be reviewed.
Pollinators are sensitive to changes in their immediate surroundings, including
what's being proposed, new equipment, more noise, infrastructure placed close
to their habitat. So please before approving these upgrades, the city
should verify what equipment is actually going to be on the pole and whether the
cumulative impact of these overlapping sites connecting all these these towers
has actually been properly evaluated. This is especially important in these
neighborhoods, these areas where there are gardens, vegetable gardens, fruit
orchards, and small agricultural properties and small farms where these
pollinators play a critical role. So, this is not just verbiage. We've lived
on our property for 30 years and before my daughter was born, there were bees.
We had honey at the end of every summer and we've seen this slow decline. So
these are very real factors for people who live in this neighborhood and kind
of have a small farm simple living highing mentality.
Um, another thing I would like to refer to
is the notification process. So, Malibu being designated as a very high fire
hazard severity zone and um this means that timely public notice is actually
essential for any meaningful participation from any of the residents.
In this particular case, residents received only a little pink postcard,
not the actual plans. And even when people immediately requested the plans,
they didn't even receive them in time to review the proposal or submit relevant,
you know, informed comments before the deadline. So, there's a little bit of a
glitch in the system there. In one case, a resident even received the postcard 2
days before the comment period closed. Um, another question I have, I mean,
there's some confusion around the actual appeal process. If somebody wants to
appeal an approval, the fee is $750, which, you know, having spoken with
various residents, some people can't afford that at such short notice, but
we're trying to clarify. Is that 750 per person per appeal?
» Thank you.
» Tiffany, you're up next. I can see you've got you've got five minutes. I
can see your two vouchers are here. Um, then CC Lee followed by Brian Cameron.
» It still says three. >> No, it says three. You have five.
» Oh, thank you. Thank you. >> Maybe you can say what you wanted to say
before when you submitted the late card. >> I don't think I'll be able to fit that,
but thank you. Good evening, council members, mayor, mayor prom.
I'd also like to welcome our new city manager.
Malibu is a rare and remarkable place, and your leadership in helping protect
it will matter greatly to this community. Your guidance will shape how
residents, wildlife, and the landscape of this community are cared for for
decades to come. I'm speaking tonight because many
residents feel that something important is accelerating a Malibu quietly and
quickly and we're not sure the public or even council members have been given the
full picture yet. And the truth is this isn't really a technology question. It's
a stewardship question. Right now, telecommunications installations are
being presented one 5G pole at a time on very short timelines as if each exist in
isolation. But these small tow small cell towers are designed to work
together as a network handing signals from one node to the next. This is not
about a single pole. The biggest physical change with 5G is network
density not higher power because the system relies on many nodes working
together. That means more antennas, more electrical boxes, more power supplies
and more polemounted hardware. Each installation may seem small, but
cumulatively the network spreads across entire neighborhoods. Yet, the public is
being asked to evaluate them one piece at a time without being shown the full
scope. That prevents residents from understanding the cumulative effect on
safety, aesthetics, and the ecosystem. And the record shows this is not
hypothetical. When residents have called to report dangling wires or maintenance
issues on existing poles, most often nothing happens.
Typically, no one knows which company is responsible, so the request is left
unresolved. In fireprone areas like ours, these are not minor concerns.
Overloading poles with additional equipment increases risk. Every
electrical system eventually fails. Prevention is not optional, its
survival. Malibu was incorporated to protect something fragile. the rural
character of this coastline, the wildlife corridors of the Santa Monica
Mountains, the dark skies and the living landscape that connects the mountains to
the Pacific Ocean. Residents look to this council not just to manage growth,
but to guard the character and safety of this place. Places like Malibu are
rarely lost all at once. They change slowly, decision by decision, permit by
permit, pole by pole, until suddenly the landscape is totally different. We may
be temporary residents here, but Malibu should be a permanent one. The wildlife
moving through these hills at night has no idea these meetings even exist. Last
night, I stepped outside my home. The sky was full of stars. The ocean was
breathing in the distance and a bobcat crossed the road. [clears throat] That
is Malibu. Not infrastructure, not convenience, not progress measured in
metal boxes on poles. This is what residents are here to protect. So what
we are asking tonight is straightforward. Before this network
expands further into our neighborhoods, the city should provide a transparent
cumulative overview of what is being proposed for Malibu. Not one poll at a
time, but the complete picture. We are asking for full RF specifications and
exposure analysis for every proposed site. a cumulative analysis that
includes already approved installations like the rains for a tower, public
access to the this information so residents can make informed comments
because Malibu doesn't get a second chance with infrastructure mistakes. And
the question isn't whether technology will come to Malibu. The question is
whether Malibu will still look like Malibu when it does. Malibu is not
valuable because it's developed. Malibu is valuable because it's still
wild. Some things can be restored, but Malibu's wild character can only be
protected, and it deserves to be protected.
This is not just about one pole. This is about how our city manages growth,
technology, and the landscape for the next generation. Every decision sends a
message to residents, wildlife, and the natural systems that sustain Malibu.
Thank you. >> Thank you, Tiffany. Uh,
» just use your hands. >> CeCe,
the tree was my home. Like it was yours.
The tree was my home. Deeper my roots
lost like never before. The tree is a connectivity to the wifi of the planet.
We don't need 5G. We don't need more stalkers. Okay, let's limit that. You
guys are empowered to say no to these people coming in. Okay, Tim, we don't
want that sign up of our houses. That's stalking and invasive. It needs to be a
sign of the wildlife in the area. So that sign needs to completely come down.
I don't know who's spray painting. It's not me. I don't believe in spraying
those toxic chemicals. Lato is the best road for a parking lot.
There's two for sale. There's $99 million in the bank that belong to the
city of Malibu and the people. Thank you, Judy from Villa Blanca calling it
Park. Yes, that is what it's called. We have made progress. We have made great
decisions and we're moving forward. I'm here to speak about many different
topics. There were 32 trees cut down in what used to be a park for Malibu at the
campus at Malibu Middle School, Malibu High School. That's not right.
The structure of a palm tree, if you look at a map of the roots, it's like a
nail into the ground. We're talking about landslides, but we're not building
any trees. The trees can do a much better job than any structural pylon you
could create. But yet, I'm looking at a full campus. 32 trees completely
disappeared from these kids' future and existence. The only thing that we all
own together is what we breathe. So if we can work on a campaign of building
more trees and again that parking lot at Lato, maybe we can help the people cross
the street better as well cuz that turn is the most actually dangerous turn in
Malibu. The wildlife passage and the wildlife bridge. And I would like to let
you know that the least qualified individual, his name is Eric, is running
the Olympics and the money for it. Okay? If I've ever seen a qualified job given
to a my like it just is like the least qualified and I think maybe we need to
look into that and put into an infrastructure of creating again the
London hub. Each of these pods cost $9,000 with the elevated execution of
people who want to take a cut. it then costs $48,000.
We can create a system with the city and if we kind of like point out that we are
an integral part of the Olympics because they will be visiting us and we will
have non-stop traffic and that's when my horse will be the most valuable.
Anyways, yehaw. Thank you so much. >> Thank you Cece
Crystal Brian.
Mayor Silverstein, uh, Mayor Proing, and city council
members. Uh, good evening. My name is Brian Cameron, and I'm a Calabasas's
resident. I've had the privilege of serving as a Calabas's public safety
commissioner for the past 10 years. In the aftermath of the Woolsey fire, the
city council asked me to help create an independent nonprofit focused on
emergency preparedness, outreach, and education. In 2021, I co-founded
emergency preparation in Calabasas, a fires safe council.
We're a 501c3 organization, and I currently serve as president.
We are a volunteer-run community outreach organization and we were
honored to be named Calabas's organization of the year in 2024.
Our mission is simple. Help residents better prepare for emergencies before
they happen. To that end, we're currently executing several initiatives,
some in partnership with the city. These include free home hardening evaluations
to reduce wildfire risk, helping neighborhoods qualify as firewise
community, and distributing emergency radios pre-programmed to the Calabasas's
repeater so residents can receive critical information when all other
systems fail. We also publish weekly safety articles that reach more than
2600 local residents. All these efforts share one goal. Making
emergency information easier to access, easier to understand, and easier to act
on. By improving how quickly and reliably residents receive trusted local
information, EPIC directly supports the city's broader resilience goals of
preparedness, communication, and community safety. That's why I'm here
this evening to introduce what we believe is one of our most impactful
initiatives to date. Our free smarthome smartphone app. The app tr the app
stores trusted locally relevant emergency preparedness and response
information on residents smartphones so it is available right when they need it
most. Rather than describing it myself, I'd like you to hear directly from the
person who designed and built it. With that, I'm pleased to turn the PO podium
over to Michael Stall, the creator of the emergency preparedness and Calabasas
app. Thank you for your time.
» Good evening. >> My name is Michael Stall. I am a
Calabasas resident. Feel a little out of touch here, but that's okay. Um,
» hold on. We didn't call you yet. >> Oh, [laughter]
» did I announce that you were next? Because you actually are, but
» Okay. Do I get to restart the shot clock?
» Well, let's let's identify who the next few speakers are going to be. So, hold
on. Mike Stall, followed by Scott Ditrich,
followed by Molen Watts. Now, you may start.
» Okay. So, uh, I developed this app at the request of this is a nonprofit. We
don't get any money for it. What we did is we got some funding from the city of
Calabasas along with from Lindseay Horvass office. We created this app
about 2 and 1/2 years ago. We've gotten about a 25%
people downloading this app. The app is um we can white label the app. About a
month ago, Malibu West Hoa has created their own version. They take our version
and put their their branding and any other editing they want to do. The goal
was really simple is how do we get the best information in the hands of people
when there are no more communications. So how do we take all of this excellent
information from FEMA, from the state of California, from the cities? How do we
get this? I if I ask you where these are right now in your homes or anybody here
you go I think it's in the top drawer someplace
and if you do you have copies in your in your car and in your workplace how many
people here can put their hand on their phone right now.
So what we did is we took every bit of information that I could gather from all
of these vetted sources and put it on an app. Now, you might be asking, well, if
there's a loss of power and we don't have internet, how's that going to help?
The way I program this is that it will always be on no matter if you have any
connectivity. The topics on there go from the very rudimentary like how to
open a garage door when you don't have electricity, how to harvest water out of
a hot water heater, how to turn off the gas. So with that we have
gotten a lot of feedback on people that maybe are not so sophisticated on what
to do. Everything is by step by step. The the white label program that we
would like to see you or offer to you would allow you to take all the
information that we give you. You can edit it as much as you want. You can add
to it you want. You can brand it. You can skin it. You can do anything you
want to with it. And it gives you the ability to reach out. You can also push
information out. We when we are we are a member at the EOC, we have a seat there.
We push out information that we get from either the PIO or from the EOC. So as
long as there is that connectivity, we can push out information to that. Um,
the other thing that is really kind of a unique thing is we have a built-in
checklist for home, family, pet, and it's dynamic, meaning you can keep track
of what you need and it also keeps track of what you can do in the future. Thank
you for your time. We look for the opportunity to maybe present this to you
in a committee meeting. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mike. Scott, you're up.
Thank you. Uh, good evening again. You got to ask yourself, why do you live
here? Malibu is a uniquely special place.
But there's a lot of pressure from, as I've said before, from outside agencies,
things that seemingly are beyond our control.
And one of the things that is really most annoying and has just seemingly
blossomed out of control is noise. Halen started this and we've been just
asking ourselves, why do we allow these gigantic packs of motorcycles?
Even one Harley with its baffles blown out
can make so darn much of a racket on PCH. You get the cars racing and there's
a nexus between noise and street racing. We're all trying to make PCH safer,
right? So, if the guys revving up their engines
and speed are connected, we have a safety issue and we can fix it. Now,
thank you to Doug because one of we were hoping technology would be a way out of
this that like a speed camera, you could have a noise camera, but apparently that
technology failed. But there's things we can do now. The
Cog cities face the same issue. I was with a friend in Calabasas today and
yep, they've got the same racing down Stunt Road, racing on Mullhalland
and [clears throat] we need to stop this if we're going to maintain the integrity
of our city. Lagona Beach does it. They do a great job. So, I'd urge our council
people who are on the cog to talk. we're going to be interfacing with CHP
and so we can do something about it. The other thing that's really annoying
is gasoline powered leaf blowers. I did I wasn't sure if they were banned or
not. Maryanne when I reached out to her said yes there banned in our city.
There's electric ones that I've seen that, you know, you could be standing
five feet away and have a normal conversation, but we're constrained by
uh staff and trying to enforce it. But there's something we can do and I'm
going to run out of time, but I did mail you how to do it. Thank you.
» Thank you, Scott.
» Uh good evening. I'm uh Molina Simple Watts and I'm your local wershed
coordinator with the North Santa Monica Bay wershed and I serve safe clean water
LA which all of you voted for back in 2018 with Major W. Um I want to thank
Mayor Silverstein and uh Mayor Prom Urick and especially our brand new city
manager. We're very happy you're here um for allowing us to be here and I
especially want to thank council member Conrad who invited me to come and do
public comments for you guys. I am here to share funding with the city of
Malibu. Essentially, there is funding for a project of approximately I'm
excited. Okay. There's about$1 to5 million dollars to come to you guys to
do a water project in your community. Um, essentially it's hard to get money
from Major W. Speaking without notes, that's just the truth. But I have a
shortcut that I would like to offer you to get the money in hand. There's this
program called the TRP, the technical resources program. If your city staff
works with me, we can whip through that grant. It's like five or six pages and
then you'll get $400,000 worth of a civil engineer to help you design the
project of your dreams and actually make this extremely difficult application for
you and then you'll get to that rosy number of $1 to5 million. Now the
question is what do you want to do with that money? Well, I have a vision.
There's obviously if you have a TMDL implementation project, we would
prioritize that. But what I think you really need, having been just gutted by
watching the Palisades fire blast through all these communities I love,
what you really need is a really large sistern at city hall. If you take water
off of your rooftops and gather that into a sistern up on the upper parking
lot, you have so many buildings in this in this little area that we're in right
now that you could get to 900,000 gallons of water a year just from
rainwater. So, you store that in your big system. You connect it to your
buildings. You put in a little diesel um pump, right? And then you put um
irrigation all around your building. Then, when the fire comes blasting
through, you have the option of turning on um sprinklers and saving your
buildings. Now, I know our beloved fire department has done a fabulous job of
protecting the city in the past. They probably always will, but it is an
awesome backup plan. How awesome is it? Well, our beloved council member Conrad,
she and her husband have built something just like this at their home. So, if you
guys think this is an interesting idea and you would like a free technical
resources program application, ask me to meet with city staff and I'll help you
set this up. Now, I will share with you that city of Calabasas is already in the
process of making this application. We're a small wershed, so we only have
$400,000 per TRP every other year. So, I'm going to ask you and invite you to
take the city of Calabasa's kind offer and do a half half application so we can
get both city halls covered at the same time. That will reduce the work for the
application and it will really help us um be proactive about serving our entire
larger Santa Monica Mountains uh entity. That's it. Three minutes.
» Thank you. >> Thank you so much everybody.
» Thank you. >> All right. Next three speakers are
Darren Graves, Norm Haney, and then an K.
» Uh, good evening, council, uh, honorable mayor and new city manager. Um, thank
you for taking the time to hear my comment. Uh, I am equally as excited by
her idea as, uh, she is, so I hope you are, too. That sounds like a great
avenue to um beat Calabasas to the punch on getting a sister installed somewhere.
Um I wanted to speak about the Big Rock Mesa presentation. I thought that was
very timely and appreciated. Um my whole life I'd been hearing about the Big Rock
Mesa landslide of 1983. I was born in '84, so I didn't witness it, but I heard
from my grandmother and my mother about how terrifying it was for my grandmother
as her house is in the toe of the Big Rock Mesa on the south side of PCH. The
property directly adjacent to her property was destroyed by the Big Rock
Mesa landslide. And for 30 years, she lived in fear of a subsequent landslide
taking out her house. Um, presumably many people on the beach still have that
fear. And so I wanted to ask uh if it would be possible based on the
statements given tonight by Mr. Moors if an ad alternate could be added to the um
sewer study to include Big Rock Mesa properties. Um as he clearly said that
pumping effluent into the hill did potentially
cause or make the groundwater supply much uh more dense than it may have been
had there not been any septic systems pumping effluent into the groundwater.
and continuing to do so could cause a different landslide. I don't think we
want the problems of Portuguese Bend and Palace Veries proliferating through
Malibu. Uh definitely not onto Pacific Coast Highway. So please give that some
thought. Thank you. >> Thank you
Nor. You're up.
[clears throat] >> Good evening uh mayor, city council
members. I'm happy to uh to welcome uh Joe Irwin
and city manager and we really need you and look forward to working with you. Uh
with regard to Big Rock, um I absolutely agree that we should
look into hooking them up to a sewer uh that's coming in uh and uh going to the
Hyperion treatment plant. I think it's a great idea
on that topic as well. Malibu has a limitation on impermeable surfaces for
everyone. Okay. It should not apply to big rock property. We're trying to keep
the rainwater out of the substructure, out of the geology, and as much water as
we can gather through impermeable surfaces
goes into drains and out to the ocean. That's exactly what we should be doing.
So, I'm I'm strongly in support of eliminating that restriction on the
square footage or percentage of your property that can have impermeable
surfaces on it. So far, there are limitations. There shouldn't be. Big
rock is a very different piece of ground and we should look at it differently.
Thank you very much for your time. >> Thank you, Nor. And you're up.
Hello, my name is an K. Uh, I have a video. Uh, Parker, if you want to play
it. Um, first of all, before Oh, we played it anyway.
» Oh, uh, pause it real quick. Thank you, Parker. Um, I am a communications
executive per the California Secretary of State and I like to be proactive and
this might seem very comical, but I'm going to play this video because it
deals with roundabouts and it's coming up on the city council agenda and I'd
love to stop this stuff before it gets to the state. Please, Parker.
So long be anything. Hello everyone. This is Anastasia
Comaras live around the world and we found a roundabout. So you folk in
Malibu dealing with a roundabout. Well, here's a live view of a roundabout with
a stop sign. And so let's see how this works. Okay, so we come up to a stop
sign. Okay. So, oh, there's an ice cream truck.
Look at that. What? You know what? It's a It's a roundabout. So, what I just go
around and round. [music]
It's a roundabout. Why not? This is
I'm getting dizzy. It's a stop sign. I keep going round and
Okay, I'm going to exit. Okay, so there you go. It's a roundabout. I hope you
guys enjoyed that. Thank you, Parker. That's just absolutely
uh Thank you. It goes a little longer, but I just wanted to get ahead of it. Uh
because I also want to remind everyone that I'm running for governor of
California, nonpartisan 2026. And Parker, I think we have some more uh
slides to show. Uh, so one of the things is no governor is qualified yet. It
doesn't happen until the 26th. So the the 23rd is the earliest. Anything you
hear about people running for governor doesn't happen until they meet these
qualifications, which I have to too. So I can't stay at
this meeting. So I got to had to finish it. Uh, next slide, please. There you
are, sir. I had to write them a big blank check. There you go. And next one,
please. And there you see. Uh, I'm listed as a communications
executive. So, the bees probably want to live. So, they we need to communicate
the 911 signals and all the communication needs to be done so we can
save all everything all the nature in general. That's what communications
executives do. And Secretary of State has certified me as a communications
executive for California governor. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Ann. Carrie Clasby, you're up. You're the last in person speaker.
» Best for the last. Thank you for having me. My name is Carrie Clasby. I have the
Sterling Farms, the Malibu Fig Ranch up there at Sterling Farms. Welcome, Joseph
Irvin. My condolences. No, I'm just joking.
Um I'm speaking about the um cell phone towers. So I just want to say
um three points. Number one uh the major thing is that cell phone uh towers is
not that it's safe is not settled science. And I think it's very important
as a community especially with the amount of science that's coming out
about it for us to take a deeper look with scientists who have been doing the
real studies on it. So the three elements of this that are important is
one the health of the people that are living near these cell towers. We're
going into 5G next to 6G. How the vegetation is affected by it
which is a real thing and the bees as uh Ann so aptly said. And the third thing
is that these strandmounted wireless equipment are um they're threats to the
wildfire fire communities and they've seen this in Australia, they've seen it
in Maui, they've seen it across the world. So, it's a third thing that I I
would uh ask that we take a close look at and um maybe we can appeal some of
these approvals while we wait for the proper science and scientists to come
forward. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Carrie. We still have two
speakers on Zoom. >> There are four raised hands on Zoom.
» They were all raised before the 10 seconds were elapsed.
» Yes. Okay, let's go. Jacob Loza.
» Glad I made it before the 10-second rule came into play. Um, I want to talk about
Tranus Park. Um, obviously this issue is not new. The Malibu Township Council
sued the city over Tranis Park back in 2009.
And um, you know, they're obviously opposed to youth sports, especially
league play, and it's been tied up in that dispute ever since. But I do want
to point out that the president of the MTC in 2009 was Steve Yuring. Um that's
um Vice Mayor Steve Yuring. That's council member Steve Yuring. Um he led
the charge on a lawsuit against the city and that's what we're living with today.
It's a park that could serve a large number of kids and families, but it
remains effectively padlocked when it comes to league play.
Um, you know, those restrictions have continued to be defended by the MTC and
supported by Steve and more recently public works commissioner and MTC
stalwart Joe Drummond. So, and John Maza the other night at uh at planning
commission. So, it's important that we don't let this issue just end up in the
dust bin of the MTC's um uh latigious behavior. I know that
council member Rigggins has been clear that this issue deserves a fresh look
and that the status quo is not working for families or kids. And Bruce, this
seems like a meat and potatoes issue for you to get behind. Will you? You know,
we spend a lot of time talking about the skate park, which we absolutely need.
I'm glad there's progress on that. Kid need kids need places to go. What we
need is to address an existing park that could be serving dozens
of teams, hundreds of kids, and countless families right now if we took
a common sense approach. This isn't about reopening old lawsuits. Um but we
should um have the fortitude to just take a look back and see if it was the
right decision um for now. And so let's just remember that Steve Yuring, John
Maza, Joe Drummond, and the MTC have the power to fix the situation they created,
but they've chosen not to. And let's remember this is the same group that
appealed the PCH safety project. Same people, same pattern. They say they
protect Malibu, but in practice, they protect their positions, their
influence, their past decisions, even when the community doesn't clearly
agree. So Steve, maybe you can comment tonight and commit to a new approach to
drinkus. Thanks. >> Thank you. Next speaker is
Lonnie Gordon. >> Good evening, Lonnie.
» Lonnie, you're unmuted. >> Good evening. Can you hear me?
» We can hear you. >> Okay. Well, my name is Lonnie Gordon and
I'm the executive director of Malibu forsafet.org.
And I'm here tonight because a serious flaw has come to light in the way that
Malibu is processing small cell wireless permits. That's why you're hearing all
of this tonight. Over the past several days, I personally verified the
locations of the recent applications. And what I found is is that the city is
being asked to approve these sites based on incorrect upstream information.
Information that starts with Crown Castle is passed to T-Mobile, then to
the city, and then assigned to a planner to approve, then the notification card
is sent out to those who are affected. And at every step, the data is assumed
to be correct. But at least in one of these cases, the Rainsford application,
it was denied. The pink card told residents that T-Mobile would be
modifying an existing wireless facility. But when the resident went to the poll,
there was no existing equipment at all. Nothing to modify. The approval was
based on conditions that simply did not exist. If one application contains
incorrect existing conditions, then every application relying on the same
data source is now in question. This matters because these are not
isolated poles. They form a mesh network with overlapping emissions. On Point Dum
alone, there are more than 10 recent sites spaced roughly 350 to 2,300 feet
apart. And that spacing is intentional. It creates a continuous RF field across
entire neighborhoods. And I want to be clear, these installations are not being
built for voice service. They're not needed for phone calls. They're being
built to support fixed wireless home internet, a high-capacity data system
that requires dense overlapping nodes. And that's why these poles are clustered
so tightly. It's not about phone coverage. It's about the volume of data
the system can push through. And this raises another concern. I don't know
whether the Rainsford approval was processed with the full Malibu fire
protocol, which is the strongest in the country, but if the application was
based on incorrect information, such as claiming equipment existed on a pole
when it didn't, then the fire review may have been built on the wrong foundation.
And no protocol can be reliable when it's based on incorrect facts. and
residents should not have to pay $750 to appeal a permit that was flawed before
it ever reached them. And the city should not be approving installations
based on information that no one has verified in the field. Given all of
this, I'm asking the city to do one reasonable thing. Pause all pending
small cell approvals until the source of this misinformation is identified and
the accuracy of each application can be verified. This is not anti-technology.
It's not anti-ell service. It's simply asking for accuracy, transparency, and
safety. >> Thank you, Lonnie. [applause]
» Uh, come on. No clapping. Sorry. >> Next speaker, Steve Price.
» Yeah. Yeah, I'm here. Can Can you hear me? Okay,
» we can hear you fine, Steve. >> Oh, great. Thank you. So, yep. Like uh
like they said, my name is Steve Price and I'm here to talk tonight, you know,
mostly about my my good buddy Steve Yuring. And I call him my good buddy
just because we have the same first name. I don't really know Steve Yuring,
but I I digress. Uh you know, Steve often lectures about rules, compliance,
and what residents and property owners should or should not be doing in this
city. He is outstanding at positioning himself as someone who
protects Malibu and guards the public interest.
But leadership carries a simple expectation.
If you are going to sit on this council and tell residents how the rules should
be enforced, you yourself should be willing to follow
those same rules. And that's where the problem keeps
arising. Steve has accumulated a number of
violations and enforcement issues involving his own property. We talked
about these just a few weeks ago. He hides behind the council policy to avoid
talking about his violations. He's even gotten Jean Maza covering for him behind
this council policy, which as I've mentioned before is not a law.
Anywh who, the contradiction matters because credibility in public office
depends on consistency. So, how about the rest of us? Well, we
apply for permits, respond to inspections, correct violations, and
work through compliance issues. That's part of living in a community governed
by rules. But when a council member demands strict
adherence from everyone else while facing unresolved issues of his own, it
raises an obvious question I just cannot seem to get answered.
Are we experiencing principal leadership or just a lot of noise and tail chasing?
because it starts to feel a little like watching a squirrel dart around the
yard, warning everyone else about the dangers of buried nuts while quietly
digging holes of its own. Public office should hold people to a higher standard,
not a lower one. The people sitting on the dis make
decisions that affect property rights, enforcement priorities, and the daily
lives of Malibu residents. Those decisions carry real weight. So, Steve,
don't you think the public has a right to expect that the people making those
decisions are following the same rules as the rest of us? Malibu deserves
leadership that spends less time chasing its tail and more time demonstrating the
standards if ask everyone else to live by. So, can we for once get an answer on
this? Finally, does anyone up there care?
Thank you. Thank you, Steve. Last speaker.
Andy Lion. Hey, Andy. >> Hey there. Hear me?
» We can hear you, Andy. Go ahead. >> Okay, cool. Hey. Uh, welcome to the new
city manager. Good luck. Um, I'm I'm calling tonight in on the public
comments about this skate park. Um, enjoying it. It's great. Um, just had
some questions about, you know, we got a lot of kids there tonight for the for
the little league thing and, you know, the the opening opening day was sort of
a nightmare because this contractor hasn't finished the parking lot and the
bathroom. And we had our temporary skate park ripped out, which was supposed to
stay there the whole time, six months ago. and CS Legacy who was given the
contract and then subbed out the skate park skate park portion
um they haven't really I mean they could have finished they haven't finished the
bathroom they haven't finished the parking lot I'm sure they have excuses
why but I don't understand really how six months they haven't finished that
they um it's somebody needs to like check into that because it's ridiculous
they're making a lot of money I think the whole park was like $4 million
and I don't see a whole lot of progress and I've been following it from before
it even started. Um, you know, if that's any indication of
the snack shack moving forward to something to look at, maybe, you know,
vet the the contractor a little better. Um, the other thing is this landscaping
stuff with the trees that were supposed to be going in. I I next door, you know,
the whole thing got delayed because of Gillan suing the city and we've caved
and I do we not me but certain council members um that project next door is
like dead in the water. I haven't seen any progress on any those houses are not
doing anything right now and I was just wondering if he promised to pay for
those trees if he paid for them yet or what's going on because I don't think
he's part of that project anymore. So, I'd like the city to look into that to
see before they, you know, start, you know, taking on these trees or whatever.
Um, but that's something that should be looked into because there's nobody
working on those houses and that's why we should have had that skate park two
years ago. You made all those noise and now they're not. The houses are like raw
looking like, you know, just abandoned construction. So, maybe city should look
into that. I'll be back for the uh snack shack thing later. Thanks.
» Thank you, Andy. Okay, that closes public comment or that closes item 4 A.
It's 8:05. We're going to take a 10-minute recess and then we'll resume
with um item 7B.
If everyone could be quiet and sit down, the meeting will resume.
» Everyone take their seats, please.
Okay, everyone, please take your seats and let's retain order now.
» Okay, we're now up to item 7B.
Malibu Bluffs Park Snack Shack and Park Enhancement Project. Please raise your
hand in Zoom if you'd like to speak on this item. And you'll be called after
the staff report. Well, actually after the people that are here speak. So,
first item is a staff report. >> Good evening, Mayor Silverstein and
honorable members of council. The item before you is the Malibu Bluffs Park
snack shack preliminary design. The term enhancement project was added to reflect
the amenities and uh the requirements for the improved park conditions. At
this time, I just want to take a moment to thank the parks and recre recreation
commission for their time and dedication and providing feedback and design
modifications that both serve our youth leagues and enhance the park experience
for our park patrons. Uh, presenting tonight's report with me
is Nathaniel McLean, assistant engineer in our public works department. um he's
been a great teammate and has been working on the project with me and uh
has attended the commission meetings as well. So I'll get started on our
presentation.
So, to give the council um an idea of the project timeline, prior to 2024, the
council approved an assignment for the parks and recreation commission to
provide feedback regarding the snack shack and general uh design elements of
this project. In November, the council approved a contract for design services
and in June, the parks and recreation commission reviewed the conceptual
design and provided feedback to staff. In September, the commission reviewed
modified designs and appointed an ad hoc to this project, which was Commissioner
Lingo and Commissioner Snope Scopehammer who kind of honed in on some of the
design elements and gave us uh some great feedback. In December, the Parks
and Recreation Commission actually met on the site at Malibu Bless Park and
approved a recommendation to move forward with a final snack check design.
In January of this year, uh, city staff met with the public parks and property
ad hoc committee and appro that committee uh, approved the
recommendation to present the snack shack for county property uh, park
operations. So, that will be the improvement.
And to just take you back a little bit, this was our snack shack in 2023.
And, uh, this snack shack uh, was inherited by the city. So from 2006 to
about 2018 it was uh operated by Malibu Little League and the snack shack for a
couple of years was not used and uh became uh deteriorated and so it was
deemed we had to remove it for safety concerns.
And if you don't remember that's what it looked like on the inside.
So, in this picture, I wanted to point out that the uh container behind the uh
picnic table is the Malibu Little League storage container and then the picture
on the right hand side are the portable restrooms and then the city container is
right behind it. So, this is kind of the general
operation of our temporary snack shack. We have a rented sink which is a
requirement from the LA County Health Department. Um little league has to
erect these canopies every time they want to serve food and we have uh or
they uh corner off the space so to make it a a safety um
to make sure that nothing no one goes in the space that isn't allowed. So there's
quite a few people who visit the snack shack. This is um Malibu Little League
as well. They serve food through these netting openings, which is a requirement
also from the LA County Health Department.
So, here is the new and improved snack shack uh restrooms and storage
container. And, uh I'll go into a little bit more detail about what this all
really means, but here's a general overview.
So, the new kitchen is uh 374 square ft and includes the equipment. Uh restrooms
are required as part of the uh kitchen amenity through the LA County Health
Department. We have two women's and two men's, both ADA accessible. We have a
storage upgrade for the youth leagues and the city. Um we have a new ADA
accessible path and railing near the snack shack. We have an it's not
depicted in here, but we have a modified handicap parking in the main parking lot
with an ADA accessible path and a pedestrian sidewalk behind the snack
shack building which gives better accessibility for all park users.
Uh we have improved the paved area in front of the snack shack. Um, there is a
retaining wall that's approximately 26 linear feet and a janitor's closet, data
room, and a modified baseball field access for equipment and vehicles, which
is also a safety element. And we also added some new stairs behind the major
baseball field. That uh slope behind uh the major baseball field is pretty
steep, so we want to make sure we have improved accessibility.
So here I tried to color code some elements of this design. So ADA ADA
access uh new path, new railings, new paving. Um the kitchen is a standalone
building 20 ft x 20 ft 12 ft high. It'll have a dedicated service window, side
entrance, and we are uh proposing electric, no gas in this facility. We
have added new and improved added storage. um that will house city storage
and little league storage. And then other improvements include a pedestrian
pass stairs data room which can be used for uh putting out information either a
digital menu or information on the league or city programming and then uh
access between the baseball field and snack shack has also been increased. Um
and we pushed that area that we pushed that building back by 12 ft. So there is
extra space in front of the building in between the building and the baseball
field for uh team meetings, community gatherings
and uh lines for the snack shack. So this is the rendering uh provided by
our design team. So as you can see um we have the standalone Bluffs Park snack
shack. We have a men's and women's restroom. We have storage area and we
have uh kind of an elevated area which uh the sidewalk will be located.
And here's just another angle uh for that design rendering.
Just some information about the building. It is a pre-cast concrete
building. Um this was the best option when we looked at all of the all of the
options. Uh it has a very long lifespan. will hold up in uh fireprone areas and
this will be built off site and delivered in 12 foot sections. The color
palette matches our skate park and we work with our commission on the type of
equip kitchen equipment that will be inside the snack shack and all of these
items uh will serve uh our community's needs. [clears throat] I will pass it
along to Nathaniel. >> Thank you, Kristen. I'll start with the
estimated project timeline. This slide shows the project timeline for the
project. It starts with preliminary engineering at around March, April of
2026 and finishes with construction in around October November of 2027. We have
um estimated our preliminary engineering to take around 8 weeks. Our planning
commission approval to take 16 to 24 weeks. Final engineering at around 10
weeks. Building permit approval at 8 weeks. Preparation of our final bid
package at 6 weeks. City council award at 4 weeks and 30 weeks for our
estimated construction of a snack shack. to go into some cost savings for this
project. Um, we presented to the parks and recck commission and the snack shack
ad hoc committee committee with multiple design options and we worked with our
designer to revise our plans and cut costs. Our starting cost was nearly $5
million and with our revisions, we saved nearly 1.7 million. To go into more
specific cost-saving factors, we opted for no electrical upgrades. Our parks
and recreation commission determined to use the existing electricity to run all
the kitchen equipment. They minimized their kitchen equipment requests. We are
using the existing shade structures and picnic tables. And we opted to um use a
retaining wall and had our pre-cast concrete manufacturer use the building
wall to function as a retaining wall instead of a separate 122 ft linear
wall. During our skate park construction, we
have added stubouts for wastewater and electrical lines. This will place these
utilities closer to the snack shack during its construction. We have also
reduced the footprint of the paved areas for what's required with ADA access and
we minimize the amount of paving in front of the building.
To get into the cost estimate, our total is 3,711,744
with the breakdown being $200,000 for preliminary design, $225,000
for permitting and final design, $2.5 million for the construction of the
snack shack, a 15% contingency at $383,000,
and $350,000 allocated to construction management. So
now to dive deeper into our construction costs, the building cost breakdown for
the snack shack we have at $2.3 million. This is for general requirements
mobilization at 20,000 for the contractor. A $17,000 building pad for
our snack shack. Equipment at $26,000. This includes the kitchen equipment, its
finishes, um flooring, any storage equipment, and trash enclosures. Our
special enclosure special construction at $1.17 million is the actual cost for
the pre-cast concrete snack shack building, restroom and um storage rooms
and its delivery. Our exterior improvements at $124,000 is all the
paving pavers in front of the snack shack, its um base and subbase. Our site
work at three $331,000 is for the demo of existing asphalt
concrete and concrete. The cost of new concrete walkways, curbs, gutters, ADA
concrete ramps and rails, new pavement markings, water lines, sanitary sewer
lines, and storm drains. Our estimated contractor cost is at $432,000.
This is for their estimated overhead, bonds, and insurance.
to dive deeper into our site enhancements breakdown. This is to push
the snack shack back towards the street and have our 4 foot concrete um sidewalk
which is 150 ft long runs around the back of the snack shack. Um this will
provide more space in front of the building and adds the sidewalk and
stairs to wrap around the snack shack. This work is around $223,000
through the increased grading and foundation for the building and the
sidewalk and retaining wall. To go into the next slide, we are
requesting council to approve the preliminary design. We already have
approved $425,000 in the budget for preliminary design,
permitting, and final design. And we would like to ask council to direct
staff to review potential funding sources for the project for the 3 point
around $3.3 million for construction contingency and construction management.
Some of those considerations can be fundraising, naming rights, grants, and
general fund allocation. And that is the end of our presentation.
Thank you.
» That concludes this effort. Okay. Thank you. Do any members of
council have any clarifying questions of the staff before we move to public
comment?
No questions.
Okay, we'll go to public comment. This is now the deadline for raising
your hand in Zoom and we'll now start with the in person
people. Um Jake Lingo, you got four minutes. Is Judy still here? Yes. Okay.
John Alfano and then Sarah and Claire and Freddy.
You have four minutes. Thank you, mayor, council members. My name is Jake Lingo.
Uh I serve on the park and recreation committee commission and I'm also the
vice president of Malibu Little League. Um I'd like to start by addressing
something that's important. Uh this project is often referred to as a snack
shack, but what is actually being proposed is a park support facility that
solves several long-standing infrastructure needs at Malibu Bluffs
Park. Uh the project includes permanent restrooms, ADA accessible paths and
ramps, storage for the city and the youth leagues, improved pedestrian
circulation, and basic technology infrastructure for the park. In other
words, this is simply not just a food facility. It's essential park
infrastructure. It's also worth noting that over 20% of
the proposed building space is dedicated to city storage and janitorial
functions, further supporting the project's operational value to the city.
Today, the park relies on portable toilets, temporary storage containers,
and informal walking paths. I can personally attest that parks and
recreation committee commission took it responsibility to the taxpayers very
seriously. Uh the commission reviewed multiple design iterations and
repeatedly sent the project back for cost reductions.
Um, through value engineering, including a smaller kitchen, reduced equipment,
eliminating a new transformer, and other measures, the project cost was reduced,
as stated, from 5 million down to approximately 3.1. But that's actually
just hard costs. So, we actually saved over $2.5 million in hard cost. The soft
costs were already baked into that. So, that was just one thing I wanted to
clarify. They did a great job with the staff report, but that is something that
I think is noteworthy. Um, I also think it's extremely important to kind of talk
about the history of Bless Fields and how they became about. Um, in 1982,
Malibu Little League was at a crossroads with nowhere to call home and due to the
coastal commission actions basically beyond our control. Uh, the league
leased the Bluff site and built the two baseball fields that now make up Bluffs
Park. uh with the help of local businesses, contractors, and volunteers
from Malibu, including Doug O'Brien, Carrie Schmidt, Jack Ging, Bill
Bennowski, and countless others, the Bless Fields were built. Those same
fields, including the original back stops, still stand today.
Over the past four decades, Malibu Little League has literally invested
millions of dollars into that facility. In the last 5 years, we spent close to a
quarter of a million dollars fundraising for new scoreboards, converting the
field into a softball field, um installing new infield grass, infield
dirt, clay, and spending roughly $25,000 on maintenance every year to keep the
fields in the shape that they are in. And of note, these fields are open to
everybody in Malibu, including softball leagues and city programs.
While the days of volunteer building park facilities themselves have largely
been replaced by regulation and liability, the mission of Malibu Little
League remains the same. To leave our community better than we found it.
Those original volunteers built something that has served generations of
our community and the facility improvements before you tonight will do
the same. The investment simply ensures that the infrastructure surrounding the
fields finally matches the legacy our little league community created.
With your leadership and support, we have the opportunity tonight to carry
that legacy forward for the next generation of Malibu families. I hope
you'll join us. Thank you for your time and your consideration.
» Thank you, Jake. Please, let's be silent in our in our
support. John Alano
My name is John Alfano and I am the president of Malibu Little League and I
am not running for governor.
[laughter] >> Before taking time to talk about the
building and infrastructure that Jake just kind of reviewed, I want to talk
about what it really means to be a part of Bluff Park and what Malibu Little
League and softball is all about. Every week, hundreds of kids, almost a
thousand people come to the field every week, and they do what they love. They
play, they compete, and they grow. They're learning teamwork, resilience,
confidence, and the value of hard work. They're building friendships that last
for years. And most importantly, they're having fun. They even sat through this
meeting this long with smiles on their face. God bless them.
That culture does not happen by accident. For more than seven decades,
Malibu Little League has built almost on entirely on volunteer effort. Parents,
coaches, board members, and thousands of hours have made this experience
possible. I personally spend about 40 to 60 hours a week volunteering, making
sure kids have uniforms, they're on the right teams, the fields are safe,
there's dirt out there, there's no gopher holes, yada yada yada.
And at the heart of all this is the snack shack. Believe it or not, it's
more than an experience. It's not just about the food. It's a place where
families gather between innings, where teammates hang out with their after
games, and where siblings run around with their grandparents to watch the
next generations play. Come on a Saturday and you'll walk up
and see kids with their tickets wanting to redeem them at the snack
track for a treat. walk away smiling like they just won the World Series.
Jake already mentioned the millions of dollars that Little League has put in
over the last 40 years, including over a quarter million in just the last five.
But the truth is, you cannot put a dollar amount on the volunteer hours
that have built this program and keep it thriving. And tonight, I'd like to ask
something very simple. I'd like you to look at the kids that
are standing next to me. I'd like you to look at their faces.
Look at the excitement they have tonight wearing their uniforms and just being
here representing Malibu Little League and softball.
Three years ago, I stood right here in the same room with another group of
legal leaders, little leaguers. [snorts] Those kids have now grown up and aged
out of the league. And they never got to experience what it is we're asking for.
Please do not let that happen to this group. I'm asking you tonight to make a
commitment. not to me, not to the league, but to these kids that are
standing right here beside me. That Malibu will continue serving its
investment in the places where these kids learn teamwork, friendship, and
confidence. Because Malibu Bluffs Park isn't just where kids play baseball and
softball. It's where they grow up and become young adults. Thank you.
» Thank you, John.
» [snorts] >> Sarah, Claire, and Freddy.
» Hi, my name is Sarah and um we're all here to talk about how much we love the
Snack Shack. Personally, I love it because of all the awesome snacks it has
and the fact that we turn the money we paid for the snacks into tickets. I love
the ticket idea because I think it's awesome and way cool and way better than
waving around normal money. Another thing I love about the snack shack is
that all the people who work there are very nice and friendly. Another reason I
love the snack shack because it is an awesome place to just be able to buy a
snack then go to practice. It is also a good place for all the
parents to just buy lunch, hang out, and watch their kids play softball or
baseball. Um
um hi, I'm Freddy Fink and I'm here to talk about this snack shack and it's
already pretty cool, but um it would be way cooler if we could get like
bathrooms and make it a little bit cleaner and bigger and
um yeah, thank you.
» Hi, I'm Claire Toledo and um I'm here to speak about softball. We love playing
softball. And after softball, we would go to the snack shack to get plenty of
snacks like sunflower seeds, gum, dip, and dots, lollipops. It is really good.
» That's it. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments.
Um Josh Spiegel followed by Hug Janice, followed by Olivia and Skyler.
Hi. Um, I don't really have all that much to say other than just looking at
this from afar. It's [snorts] super important that Malibu has these great
parks, these great facilities. It's part of keeping families here and these kids
are going to be the future of Malibu and protecting what Malibu is in 100 years.
So, we need to attract that. Um, I'm pretty sure I see where this thing is
going, so I'm gonna shut up and go sit down.
» Thank you, Josh. Hugh,
is Hugh here?
» No. Okay. Olivia and Skyler.
» Hi, my name's Olivia Alfano. >> Hi, and I'm Skyler Lingo. The reason why
we like the snack shack is because it can bring the community together
» and people can make new friends. Thank you for supporting this idea idea. We
love the snack shack. >> Thank you.
» Seeing a pattern here. [laughter]
» Okay. Um Sienna Graham and Havana Keenan.
Pull that. >> Pull that mic down for
That's even better. All right. >> Hi, my name is Sienna.
» Grandma. >> Hi, my name is Savannah Keenan.
» First of all, the snack shack is a big part of Malibu Little League.
I save up all my allowance for it. It is such an honor to be a part of that
community. It gets a
It gets me hyped up for softball games in the morning.
» I mean, I do dishes for get to get snack shack.
» Thank you. Thank you for listening. >> Yeah. Thank you. That's all.
» Thank you, Heather.
Alfano, Leo Gigliadi, and Mila Mustakus and Jenna Alfano.
» Hi everybody, Heather Alfano, also known as the first lady of Malibu Little
League. I have inherited the role of the snack shack queen, and I never could
have guessed how much joy this position would bring. Every Saturday during the
spring season, I can be found grilling from about 8:00 a.m. till 2:00 p.m. in
some capacity. Two weekends ago, we celebrated opening day, bringing back
our infamous Bluffsburg burger. We sold 180 burgers and 60 hot dogs that day. We
also served breakfast quesadillas for our early morning teams. The snack shack
has truly become a pinnacle of social connection here in Malibu. I am standing
before you today to personify how important pushing the plan for a
permanent snack shack really is. Last year after the Palisades fire, we were
beyond hesitant to ask our local businesses to sponsor a little league
team, which is a staple for our fundraising efforts. We relied heavily
on the profits of the snack shack to keep things moving for all of our
players. One of the major hurdles that we deal with on a weekly basis is how
cumbersome our setup and breakdown can be. We have a lot of parents who are
willing to volunteer. However, it is not easy to set up a temporary restaurant
each week. We are hooking up water to a mobile sink, a water heater, a drainage
system, building easyups that are not easy. Temporary trash cans, running
extension cords to power our register, speakers, and cotton candy machine, as
well as the grill, food prep, chilling drinks, and laying out an array of big
leak chew. If we were able to show up to a permanent snack shack, I wouldn't be
so fearful of this snack shack idea dying when I finally need to retire. So,
when you find an item on your agenda pertaining to Snack Shack, please think
of me in my grandmother's apron, pleading with you to make it happen.
Lastly, I encourage all of you to stop by on a Saturday and get a Bluffsburg
burger. It is truly the tastiest burger in Malibu. Thank you.
» Thank you, Leo.
Is Leo here? >> No.
» Okay. Mila Mustakus and Gemma Alana.
» Good evening everyone. My name is Milas and my name is Gemma Alan. One of the
main parts of Maba Little League is the snack shack. I love going to the snack
shack, but if it was bigger, it would be even better. I love going there with my
family and friends. It's so yummy and fun. When we get done with our softball
games, we go get a lot of food and drinks and candy. It would be amazing to
have a building to keep it all. Thank you. Any questions?
» [laughter]
» Thank you very much.
Do we have anybody on Zoom?
Yeah, there's two raised hands. First is Andy Lion.
Hey there. Um, did I go unmuted?
» We hear you, Andy. >> Okay. I had a picture. Uh, Parker has
There we go. That's the original, my original that I the snack shack I knew
down at the little league in the Malibu Lagoon area.
And uh you know, listening to all these K we that was the worst best pizza ever,
the pizza ball, snow cones that were like as hard as hard balls and all kinds
of candy, you know. And the memories I have of that that snack shack are, you
know, they go back. That was a long time ago. Um, and I'm listening, you know,
seeing this whole thing. I I I'm listening to the kids and like, you
know, the idea of the snack shack, but what they have right now and they're
just so happy to get to the like if I asked Glider, he as long as he could get
dipping dots. I mean, if they were coming out of the back of the trunk of
somebody's car, he'd be stoked and just hanging out with everybody. But it's
great that there's going to be something coming. It's just unfortunate that this
whole bureaucracy and the the designs and everything is so expensive and
crazy. And it used to be I I'm sure like the parent like the dads probably built
that snack shack and just put something in that had some character and stuff and
wasn't you know tied into every kind of bureaucracy, red tape, design fees and
whatnot. But, um, yeah, that's that, you know, do the right thing for it. Um, I'm
just I I don't know why we got stuck with the skate park having to have
bathrooms too, right across the street, literally like, you know, 50 feet away
and they have to make more bathrooms for that and charge more for I don't I don't
understand, but you know, more bathrooms the better, I guess, because whatever.
Um, but yeah, it's it, you know, I hope that you can get it done before like
while those kids are here that are there coming before you and talking about how
great the snack check is. Hopefully it gets done while they're still in Little
League. Um, you know, like the skate park, you know,
the the construction, so many of the kids that went to those meetings that
were like the kids tonight, they didn't they're already gone. So,
um, push it through and push it through fast and maybe get something in the
interim, you know, so, you know, maybe like something that can happen and they
can use right now as a, you know, that would be great to have a have something
that's better than there, whether it's a, you know, a,
you know, food truck or some something that is better. I don't know. I like it
right now. It's great. Blessberger all the way they you know after skating too
but I'm in the little league. Go Angels. Let's go get a snack check. Bye.
[laughter] >> Thank you Andy. Who's next?
» Alicia Peak.
» Wow. It's so nice to see all you smiling on the dis tonight because this is what
local government is all about. our future and our youth. Kids in the room,
can you please stand up? Adults in the room, can you please stand up? Please
stand up to show the amount of support that we have tonight.
My name is Alicia Peak. I'm a parks and rec commissioner, AYSO commissioner,
teacher, but most importantly, a mother of three ball players, and proud to know
every single person in this room because you being in this room tonight shows the
support that we all share for this I promise you that this snack shack is
not just about little league. It is about AYSO. I see it being used for flag
football, chew mash day, outdoor movie nights, an emergency kitchen. We always
talk about emergency services. This could be used in that way. And our new
skate park. We could use this for having events for the skate park. You can sit
down now. Thank you all. I appreciate you so much.
» I think that this is the heart of our community.
Kids get to learn and immerse themselves um of what it means to volunteer, take
orders, make orders, and learn how to be a cashier. Unfortunately, Heather, I
don't foresee kids rolling that 100 pound sink up and down the shelf every
week like you do. God bless you. I say this all the time, but the only thing
economists always agree on is that the best investment is to invest in kids. As
a city, we have committed to this with our school district, with our community
lands. And this is one more commitment we are making. We are asking the city to
make in our youth. It is also very important tonight, as you guys discuss,
we need a robust fundraising effort to make this a dream. Let's vote tonight to
make this a reality and use this also as an opportunity to create a great
fundraising effort that we can continue to use for all future projects. Jake
Lingo and Dne, if everybody could please give a clap for them. They have worked
so incredibly hard on this. I am proud to know you and thank you.
» Thank you, Alicia. One more.
» Those are all the raised hands. Okay, that ends public comment. Brings back up
to council. Who wants to go first? >> Okay.
Um, so obviously I've been pushing since I got on council to get this project
forward. So I'm a big hearty yes. And um I I I'm hoping that we're going to be
able to find some cost savings um some time savings. Um it would be great to
have this open um as early as possible. That's all I'm going to say. But
anywhere we can can shave a couple weeks off here and there, it's going to add up
to to being um so uh and then also fundraising. Um I know I've already
talked to some about that. It would be great if we could um move towards having
a more robust uh way of uh finding dollars for this.
But um I think regardless if city ends up paying for this or we are able to be
successful and get some fundraising, we're not going to regret um this
improvement. Having those shipping containers that are out there and
portable restrooms are the last thing that we need uh when we're trying to
encourage residents to rebuild here. uh we need to have something that is
attractive and that you know families when they're looking at homes and
they're looking to build here. These amenities are really important and
having something that shows value in our community is going to show our residents
that we value them and we want to encourage them to be here. So I'll even
make a motion to um move this forward. So it's
what is it? Review and approve the Malibu Bless Park snack check and part
enhancement project um for final preliminary design and I don't know why
I'm not putting my glasses on. What a crazy person. Um and then uh yeah direct
staff to find other um funding sources for it. So my motion is the recommended
action by staff.
Somebody want to second that? >> Uh, I've got some recommendations to it,
but I'm supportive. If I could uh maybe have the mic for a minute here.
» You can have the mic for as long as you need, but are you making a second or you
just speaking? >> Uh, speaking in a second will come up.
I'm going to need to amend it a little bit, I think, and see if Mariana will go
along. >> First off, Andy, uh, I I'm right there
with you. I look back on that picture and I remember what it was like when I
was a kid except uh having a water fountain was really a garden hose and
you ran it for a while to get the water cool. But that's the way it was then and
I don't know better or worse that's not the way we are now. Uh although I
survived as that seems so don't think it kills you. Uh I love the design and I
applaud the consensus that went into building putting this before us tonight.
Um costsaving considerations as well. I I could feel the conversations as you
guys were talking about it. Well, let's take a little bit out of here. Let's
take a little bit out of there. It It's absolutely wonderful what you guys have
done. And this is a solution that's long term. Uh this isn't about next week or
next day. And it's like our skate park. It's a it's a investment in our kids.
It's investment in our park system. And these will be here forever. Uh and I
talk about making decisions on this DAS that last a hundred years. This is one
of those ones. You look at the parks that are there and Jake and John and
Heather, you guys have have taken over the mantle for today, but there's 60 70
years of history on this. There'll be 60 or 70 years history going forward and
we've got to invest wisely and make sure it works. Um, and honestly, if it was
only the snack shack, it'd be the most expensive hot dog stand in America. But
it's far more than that. You pointed it out very well, and the diagrams are are
support that. Our issue, though, is money. Um, I hate to be the the the
banker up here, but in fact, Joe and I had a conversation this afternoon about
this. Um, not just about the skate park, but the whole city's finances. Um, you
go back two or three years ago, we were cashri. We had a $9 million surplus.
Life was good. Uh, we approved the skate park and said, "We'll pay for it."
today with the fire behind us and I'll go back to Zeviroski who um made his
comment to an earlier city council member.
He was very proud of the fact that he had a big surplus reserve and Seroski
goes, "You're one disaster away from bankruptcy." And he's right. Uh, city of
Maloo right now is rebuilding the city that burned and we've got somewhere
between I'm gonna say 18 to$22 million, I don't know what the number is right
now on a non-interest bearing loan to FEMA.
» Uh, we have to advance the money and then they decide if they're going to
give it back to us. We also don't have the property tax we had a year ago. We
don't have the sales tax we had a year ago. Don't have the transit occupancy
tax, the hotel tax. So income is down, expenses are up, especially in support
of our rebuilding. We're not going to not support our rebuilding efforts. And
at the same time, we got to take care of the town that didn't burn. So I am all
in favor of this, and I will do everything I can to get it done. But I'd
like to maybe put this in a two-step process.
We've already got $425,000 in the budget to do the preliminary
design and permitting, final design. as I look at the sheet and Kristen or
whoever uh nod at me or give me the the stink eye and tell me I'm wrong, but we
that's going to take us about a year to get there.
We have got to have some help to build this financially. And I'll tell you
what, you know, top of my mind is, and I've got my notes down here that I wrote
on this, um we need to probably get half the funding for this from donations and
naming rights. call it a million five million seven.
There's money like that around here for things that need to be done and this
needs to be done. We've got to find a way to do it. The city right now doesn't
have a spare million7 but hopefully we can get some money back from FEMA, get
the reserves built back up. And that's really what I'm talking about it. We've
got to have these reserves to protect our bond rating and our credit rating.
We have almost a hundred million dollars in debt in this city. That's what we use
to buy all these parks and buy buildings and everything else. We're still paying
off the the beginner house in effect. So, we've got to raise some money here
to take care of this and we got ahead of our reserves. So, I'd like to make a
motion to support Mary going with me. Let's fully support the design uh
planning and approvals and engineering for the $425,000.
bring this back um at a future date and I don't know how we want to want to do
that to confirm the funding. You know, where where are we at? Where can we find
the money and and basically enlist the staff and the
citizenry and the council to see where we can come up with the money to build
this puppy. This is as important as anything else we do. And it is critical
that we get it done, but we don't have the dollars right now. I I hate, you
know, town is wealthy as Malibu. Hate to say we're going to need to 10 cup, but
we need the 10 cup. And we got to go find some money to make this work.
That's my opinion. And Maryanne, [clears throat] I I hearing my story and
hearing my tale. What can we do to to amend your uh uh motion? And I'm glad to
second it. Could you put the timeline back up, please?
Thank you. I I hear what you're saying and I do
like um the idea of it and um maybe that will also help spur um if we have a
deadline for fundraising uh to get our community motivated. I just don't want
to
I'm just kind of trying to think that if we I want to bring this back as quickly
as possible, but is what's a reasonable time frame?
City manager maybe you can also help me with I mean to bring it back for kind of
a [clears throat] goal setting time frame of it. Yeah, if I'm looking at
this uh Kristen and uh Nathaniel correct me, but the final engineering is 10
weeks and that's scheduled in quarter 4 of 26.
We would want to come back before then because we're going to need funding to
do that work. >> Okay.
» 425,000 doesn't cover the engineering. No, it just gets us through the planning
commission approval and the CDP, but not final construction documents.
» Well, we've got it. >> Excuse me. Uh, it does get us through
final engineering. Uh, >> so we're looking at the item before.
» Yeah. So, can I >> Sure.
» My understanding of this proposal um was that we're not approving financing.
We're not being asked to approve financing tonight at all. We're being
asked to approve the concept basically of moving forward with the preliminary
design and um permitting not permit and the final design and it will not come
back to us for a year for approval close to a year for approval of the actual
project which would include the necessity to approve a budget going to
payment. um there's ample opportunity for the city to find sources of
financing in that schedule that's already there. And if the city can't
find sources for financing, which I don't think is likely to occur, then
we'll have to make the hard decision of how much of the city's money do we want
to budget for this. Actually, I don't think it will be a hard decision. But um
I don't think it's necessary to amend the motion because the the motion isn't
to approve any payment at this point in time. The motion is simply to approve
the plan to go forward which still depends upon our approving the financing
at some future date. >> I I agree with that and uh I think if we
could maybe set a hard deadline. I like the idea of a goal setting on this um
and I don't know how we are going to uh staff both a financing
option for where the city's money comes from and then trying to work on naming
rights and donations. But um we do need to have a robust effort on both of those
to make this work. >> Yeah. Would that be I'm sorry. Go ahead.
» And I just think this is one of the most important things we'll do this year uh
as far as getting getting things started. Uh and we've got to we've got
to protect our rebuilding, but we've also got to protect this aspect.
» So, so far we have a motion and a request to amend it. Where do we stand
on that? >> Well, are you still requesting to amend
it or are you just seconding it as it is? We're just going to approve the
design >> microphone.
» We're just going to approve the design and the 425,000. I'm all in. I'm with
you. >> Okay.
» The 425 is I think already approved. So, it's just continuing the the path.
» Okay. So, we have a motion, a second. Um, further discussion. Who Who else
wants to speak? >> Steve.
» I I understand the need for a project, excuse me, a project like this.
And I'm with I grew up in Rome, New York, and any given day in the summer, I
could get on my bicycle, drive around the city, and get into a baseball game.
Uh they were always there. As long as you weren't a spaz, they let you play.
Uh and it was now and you it was a baseball town. The commissioner of
baseball came from Rome, New York. I mean, with those there's a lot of
baseball being played there. So, I am in favor of trying to put something
together that makes it better for the children here in Malibu to use that. Let
me make a couple suggestions. And I spoke to Rob Dau about this a
while back. Malibu High School has got these
classrooms that they're tearing apart and they're going to throw them out.
These classrooms come with eight bathrooms. Uh they're in great shape.
Uh, and I suggested maybe it's worth trying and they're giving them away. If
someone doesn't take them, they're going to throw them out. So, I suggested that
maybe we should take a look at those and see if maybe bringing one or two of
those in can give us a a jump start in getting this stuff done, this project
done. Uh, and they save you a few bucks. I think it, you know, you can make it
look as good as what we're planning here, uh,
and save some money. So, I I hope somebody is taking a look at that. Uh
because to have these these classrooms just get thrown out and not used, I
think is a mistake. Uh that said, and I agree with everything Doug said, money
is the issue right now. Now, I assume who's going to who's going to be the
fundraising arm to get this thing going? Do we anybody identify who's going to do
that? Kristen? Uh yes, I am working with our city
manager on a plan um to bring forth some ideas for fundraising efforts. We are
taking a book out of uh city of South Lake Tahoe. Um so I will be meeting with
those staff members next week to to talk about a plan of moving forward with
fundraising, a foundation of some sort. >> And I agree with Doug. I mean I think
you guys you start early and do it often. I mean, there's
we talked about getting the FEMA money back. Uh, I don't know if you've
listened to the news. Donald Trump doesn't particularly have Malibu next to
his heart. Uh, so that money may not be showing up in the very near future. So,
you know, do what you can to raise as much as you can because I think when we
get to the end of it, you're going to need it. So, I will support the motion
so far. >> Yeah. Well, I'm all for community and
youth and uh seniors as well and animals. So, I support the idea of all
of this. I just have a lot of I still have questions and I don't know if the
ad hoc has to come back together with maybe the parks ad hoc. Um I'm still
supportive of it, but you know, it's great to have the first lady here, but
when the first lady's kids grow up, who is going to man like is there a plan for
who mans this snack shack? Is it parent and volunteer? because I know that
parents and volunteers move on. So, is it a concession contract and then we
have to have a contract with there's just I feel like there's still some
nuance that I need to understand. I do like Andy Lion's old snack shack. I
think it's charming and it also doesn't block the view. I've said this so many
times. I want to drive to the bluffs and see ocean and not storage units. Um I
don't know why the storage units haven't been moved already. So, like in the
meantime, it would be great to visualize that space. Those storage units are
rusty and old and run down. I I think if they're empty, let's just remove them
and put some money into removing them. Whatever happens, you can't What's
inside of them? >> Baseball,
» all the equipment from I I got it. There we go.
» Okay. >> So, there's a city uh storage in there.
And then the little league has their equipment for um the field maintenance.
Um one of them has the the snack shack equipment and things that are stored
there when um season's in place. >> Yeah.
Um yes. I don't want to labor all my
questions about food trucks because I'm sure you guys looked into food trucks.
Um, yeah. It's, you know, I want to spend
money. I want to be up here and be like, "Yeah, let's do it." But it, it's also
hard because we have, does the city do any match funds? Like when you fund
raise, do you do a matching which a lot of We don't have anything um
in line yet. >> Um, so that would be something we would
look into. Okay.
Um, okay. I have questions about the concession air and how this is going to
operate. You know, we also have the Ike lot which has two regulation size soccer
fields. Um I also want to know how much that's going to cost. So it's hard for,
you know, I'm glad we're not doing the funding tonight because there's those
questions about the nursery that we approved with for nature uh native
plants. Do you have to have a food permit for
this? Yes, ma'am. We have to We go through LA
County Health Department to get all the permitting.
» Does that cost money every year? >> Yes, it does.
» Okay. All right. Well, I'm super into supporting the youth and making Malibu
uh memories. I would love to know about the timeline for the AIO soccer fields,
but we're not really talking about money tonight. And I'm excited to hear about
what you might have in store that South Lake Tahoe did for funding for parks.
So, it's not always on the city of Melbourne. Thank you.
» All right. Thanks, Alan. So, if you want to get something approved, bring the
kids in. Right. >> Thank you all for speaking. You're
great. Um, I was super supportive of getting a temporary snack shack in there
when it was necessary along with Miriam. And, um, I was supportive of moving this
forward with all elacrity. I can't believe it's taken us as long to get to
where we are. And we still have a long road ahead. Sounds like um the cost is
somewhat shocking to me. I really thought we were looking when we first
approved going forward at hundreds of thousands of dollars, possibly low 1
million. I this number is startling to me. In fact, there was a slide said
starting price. I thought it said startling price, but then I read it more
carefully. Um but it is startling. But you know, I I'm less concerned I think
than others up here about um the city's finances. They're going to come back and
they're going to be fine. I mean, look, I've said this before. If we have
another disaster, doesn't matter that we saved money because we're saving it for
our creditors. And um if we don't have another disaster, then we've not spent
money for no good reason if we're if we're holding it just because we're
worried about another disaster. So um this is an important community amenity.
It's um we haven't done move forward with any of the other community
amenities that we've been talking about for years and years and years. Actually,
we we've moved forward with one, the skate park. That's also been more
expensive than anyone thought it would be, but it's it looks like it's going to
be a great improvement for the for the kids and for the community. So, I'm
super supportive of this. I think we need this. Um I wish there were a way to
do it less expensively. It I can't believe we publish what we think things
are going to cost and then we go out and ask people to pay to bid it. So, we kind
of set the floor already. It's ridiculous the way that this works.
Government is not meant for um money saving. Um, but I'm going to support
this. Um, I I I have an a nent idea about a way to do this less expensively
without changing a thing, but it's premature to talk about that publicly,
but I'm going to talk to the staff about that um over the coming week. Um, but I
I support this and um I would have supported that if we were approving the
money tonight, subject to getting it back in ways that we can look into, but
if not, not not. But so does anybody have any further comments before we take
a vote on this? >> I just have a question. Has anybody from
the city looked into um the trailers that Steve's talking about? Because I
know Kevin Keegan brought it up at a few meetings.
» Thank you for the question. I I have and um in just a quick email chain with the
school district um those trail the portable classrooms have to be removed
by March 30th of this of this year. So at the end of the month uh there is
costs related to transporting them and getting them off the site that the city
would be responsible for. Um, so that just means we would have to store them
for for a [snorts] bit. Um, I don't think they're
I get I think I could talk to Little League, but a modification to um a
classroom to have like a rollup gate would probably be [snorts] an expense as
well. So, um, that was the information I received.
» Thank you. I wasn't sure if we were you wanted to put them at Heathercliffe or
Ioke for now sort of because we don't have to store them but they're there if
you we decide to do that and I was also hoping that we could have like actual
renderings more. Um so I could kind of understand it better because it's not
like inspiring to look at that. Um, and then also to Andy Conrad's Point, Lion's
Point. Um, how many bathrooms in that area will we have? Because I know we
need bathrooms. You've got uh the Bluff's Michael Landon, which is
kind of further away, and zero at the skate park now, or there is a restroom
facility at the skate park. There are two genderneutral restrooms at the skate
park. This facility at the snack shack will have two women's and two men's. Um,
if I remember correctly, there are six inside the uh Michael Lannon Center.
» There I did speak to Little League about um the restrooms across the street.
There are concerns. It was regarding safety and children crossing uh the road
if they need to use the restroom at the skate park. So, this was the best idea
moving forward just as far as proximity to the baseball fields, keeping children
safe, >> right? I don't know if you know the
answer to this, but when the money comes in for the bluff burger, who gets that
money? >> It goes back to
» Little League. Okay. And then when Little League's not operating the snack
shack and the first lady's not in the kitchen, who is operating the snack
shack so that there can be additional funds to make it more worth it? There's
nobody operating it. So right now no one is operating it there. You had mentioned
um LA County Health Department. Uh when they permit the facility, it is only for
Malibu Little League to use that facility.
» So that's three months out of the year. >> Um they begin in March. It's 3 to 4. Um
and we do rent the required sink. Um that is part of the snack check as well.
So, it's closed the rest of the year for the skate park. So, there's no dip in
dots anyway for glider. Okay. Maybe that's something that we could think
about to make it a little bit more worth a while.
» Yeah, I think once we have a permanent facility, it'll be used u more often
than it is now. >> Okay, great. Thank you.
» One last thing. It was so good to see all the young girls here tonight for
Little League. I mean, you know, when I was a child, if I if there was a event
like this and the little league's children showed up, it would have been
all boys and it was so nice to see. And you know, one day you'll see a woman
president of this country and it's a shame we don't right now because we
wouldn't be at war with the world. >> Are we ready to vote?
» Okay. You want to do a voice vote or just acclamation?
» Kelsey shaking her head. Do a single vote. Okay. Why don't you call the call
the question? >> Do you'd like a roll call? Council
member Rigggins? >> Yes.
» Council member Stewart? >> Yes.
» Council member Conrad? >> Yes.
» Mayor Promarine? >> Yes.
» Mayor Silverstein? >> Absolutely. Yes.
» Motion carries. >> Okay. Thank you all.
» Mayor, your microphone is off. If you're speaking,
» turn it off. Okay. It's now 9:19 and we are only up to city council member
reports. I'm going to ask that council members try to keep these as brief as
possible. I'm going to forego mine altogether. Who would like to go first?
» Um I'll go really quick. Um I attended a clean power alliance meeting last week
and um since our city is with clean power alliance and they have been so
successful in uh negotiating contracts with uh solar and wind throughout the
region. Um we're kind of shifting into a new dynamic as far as when power is
available. Um there is a an abundance of power available during the day. So, it
used to be that you faced higher rates for using your electrical during the
daytime. Now, with the abundance of uh clean power, uh you're seeing more
availability and lower rates. So, they're encouraging people uh to charge
your your electric vehicles during the day um and uh use of other appliances
and things like that. if you are on the um the uh daytime use. The Clean Power
Alliance is also moving forward with a pilot project to look at time of use um
and seeing if they can get people enrolled to um take part in these where
you would be on a a demand um and uh just kind of try out see what the rates
are going to be and things like that. So, uh look for it in the mail. They're
picking people at random throughout all Clean Power Alliance cities, which uh
are over most of me uh LA County and Ventura County. Now,
um but if you are chosen, they'll give you additional information about how you
can confirm, you're able to opt out of the pilot program if you want to and
still stay with Clean Power Alliance. Uh but just look, they will be sending out
mailers to those uh properties that are selected to take part in the pilot
program. Not everybody will be selected. Uh but just keep an eye out for that so
you can gain that information. But it's a 12-month program to start with, but
eventually it may get rolled out depending on how successful it is. So,
um, if you have more questions, please go to Clean Power Alliance, um, and you
can chat through and they've got a lot of great information on there and, uh,
ways to save on power. Okay. >> And other than that, um, attended a
couple other meetings, but, uh, just working on the city stuff.
» Steve, yeah, I'll try and be equally as quick. uh these cell towers. Can
somebody from the city come back to us and let us know what are our
responsibilities, what options we have to sort of look at these things and get
them approved or or make comments because these things are going in and
none of this is coming in front of the city council. And I think some of the
comments we heard from the residents tonight say it should be right. We
somebody should take a look at what's going on and making sure it makes sense
for what we're doing. So, if someone could get back to me on that, I sure
would appreciate that. I hope somebody's going to chase down Melinda Watts. I
thought her presentation was worth worth taking a look at. Uh,
and Mike's app, I don't [clears throat] know what that is or how it works when
there's no cell phone power, but if someone maybe Susan team could take over
the public safety could look at that and see if that makes sense. I, you know,
it's an idea. Uh, I' I've got I used to live in the Palisades and I I still talk
to some people back there and one of the things they're telling me is a lot of
the residents of the Palisades are applying for permits and once they get
their permit they're flipping their house and they said just be careful
that's starting to go on. And over the weekend I saw a posting I think it was
Brian Merrick where somebody on the beachside property was doing the same
thing. They got their permit. They're trying to to flip it. So, I just think
we got to be aware of that. And if we see a lot of this going on, I do think
we ought to take a look at doing something about short-term rentals on
the beach because if enough of these things are flipped over, it just could
be investors coming in, picking them up, trying to build the the building, and
turning this place into a, you know, a motel. So, uh, I hope we keep our eyes
on that. I certainly will, and as I learn more, I'll let people know. Thank
you, Bruce. >> Thanks, Steve.
» Thanks, Steve. Halen. Doug, who wants to go next?
» I'll go next. Um, following up on Steve's points, which were very good, I
um I'd like to propose an infrastructure resiliency ad hoc to explore water
solutions, cellular uh these cell towers that I'm just hearing about uh the
government bills that keep coming, we keep coming across, new technology. I
met with Mike and the app and I asked them to come to Malibu public comment.
um things like what Maryann just brought up and we could work together backup
batteries um there's just a lot that's going on
and so I think it would be really helpful to have a council member ad hoc
micro grid solar automatic shut off valves keep coming up do we have a code
for that is it in our codes >> for water or gas
» for water like we talked about in the zone captains
» no >> no so it would be sort of an exploration
Do I have council consensus to bring back an item about a council member ad
hoc proposing an infrastructure resiliency ad hoc?
» So all you're asking for is consensus to have an item to discuss whether to
appoint an ad hoc. >> Well, or just we can't we can't do it
today. So >> we will come back and discuss that.
» I'll support that. >> Thank you.
» Anything else? >> I'll support it as well.
» Okay. >> Sure.
» Okay. You got that. >> Thank you.
» Um, okay. The 5G towers. I'd like to learn everything I can. I don't know how
they're putting up things on the polls without CDPs or kind of going through
the city for that. Um, graffiti. Do we have any mechanism as a city
council to enforce graffiti on private property? Because that is all over PCH
and it's really people are not I mean wanting to live here or move here. It's
a constant reminder. We're getting emails from people, residents.
» No, I got the email also. I think the rule was that we we have asked those
residents to fill out one of the forms that allow the sheriff to go onto their
property. Right. And if we go if if that is completed, the sheriff's able to make
sure whoever's doing this tagging, they can get him to stop it. Without doing
that, the sheriff can't go on the property and do anything and the city
can't do anything. >> Well, sheriff,
» private property. >> Sheriff has to catch him in the act. I
think you're are you qu asking more about removal of the graffiti or how to
stop the graffiti in the first instance >> city removing the graffiti that's there
and it's enforcement and going actively out to the to the homeowners versus the
sheriff. So I'd be interested in that and I am done.
» Doug, >> um to follow up quickly, I'm going to
put uh the new city manager on the spot since he just got here. Uh two things.
Can you maybe give us some experience on the cell towers and any recommendations
on the uh uh graffiti issue? >> Yes. Uh thanks for the question.
[clears throat] So what I understand is back in 2021-22 the city council adopted
an urgency ordinance uh to address cell towers. Um
» I didn't know that >> the wireless permitting is a very
rigorous code. uh some have said one of the most tough in the country. Um even
though we have these stringent stringent codes uh the federal law pro allows
minor upgrades equipment upgrades they call them consistent with FCC section
6409. Uh 31 were approved in the first part of
this year. Six have been appealed and that's what we're hearing about tonight.
» And the appeal process doesn't come to the council. when it comes to uh hearing
officer. >> Yes, sir. Hearings officer.
» And what about the graffiti? Any >> the the the fee for the appeal is $725.
I think you asked about that as well >> or 750. The graffiti, we are looking
into that option right now. I've been talking with code enforcement and
Yolanda to [snorts] see what um how we implement that program to make contact
with the property owners and then fund the work to be done.
» Okay. All right. Thank you. I'll try and be quick, too. Uh, one thing I want to
point out, and Luca, uh, brought this up. Uh, one of the architects that does
a lot of the work here in the city, >> he's been getting invoices that are
phony. Uh, those of us that are in business, we get phony invoices
periodically, and sometimes you just go, "Oh, that's for landscaping." And you
sign off on it because it's only $25 or $15. You don't necessarily look at it.
Well, this is serious money. And I got to tell you, I think there's a special
place in hell for somebody that tries to take advantage of somebody whose home
has been burned out. Um, so quickly what I'll say is the city doesn't issue email
bills. Uh, you'll find you'll find them at the counter. Uh, that's where the
invoices and payments are made. And if you have any questions about it, call
the city. Uh, but this is and I'll quote him. He says, "I keep receiving these
emails that to an untrained eye could appear to be real."
And there's no way we can stop it, but we just want you guys, everybody that's
got a house under construction or permits or doing business with the city,
realize that people have managed to identify this. It's a scam 101. Um,
Mayor May comment about Zuma uh underpass. This has been a problem for
several years. I know I talked to the city manager about this and we've got to
figure out a way to get the traffic flowing on PCH before two things happen.
One, everybody gets uh stuck out there and they can't uh uh get into the beach,
which affects the quality of life for everybody that's trying to come into the
city, especially the residents who are just trying to get home. And also this
potential traffic accident. Um so we've got to get beaches and harbors to clear
this up. It's a matter of removing the mud and after a big rainstorm and it
shouldn't take war and peace to get it done. Um, another thing I want to
mention, Tranquus Fields. Um,
I've gotten a copy of the actual settlement agreement from 2009. The
Malibu Township Council looks like they were just trying to facilitate an
agreement uh with the city. They're not trying to stop the league play. And I
want to be very clear about something. league play is all that's not permitted.
There are practice uh uh agreements. People are using that field all the time
for practice and the parks uh department is issuing [clears throat] permits to do
it. All you have to do is contact them. The sports people know how to do it.
It's not a question about the practice fields and we don't have the money to
turn that into a league play field. We've got property with one to two uh
fields to be used. That's where our money and our emphasis is going to go.
Tranquets Park is a settled matter. As far as I'm concerned, they've already
got uh practice fields there. It's not it's not an issue. We don't have the
money or the time to deal with it if going to league play. We don't need it
at this point. Finally, um I want to talk very quickly about code of conduct.
Uh the mayor and I two years ago came up with a code of conduct plan in
association with the staff and I want to reiterate two parts of it. uh recent
planning commission meeting and even our comments at the council level indicate
we're not following our own code of conduct and I want to just emphasize two
points and I'm going to read them very quickly on page five it says conduct at
a public meeting and I'm going to read it it's quickly read city officials are
expected to prepare themselves for public issues listen courteously and
attentively to all public discussions before the body and focus on the
business at hand city officials ought to refrain from interrupting and other
speakers, making personal comments not gerine to the business of the body,
speaking privately with one another or otherwise interfering with the order of
conduct of public meetings. City officials ought to avoid debate and
arguments with members of the public and ought to commit to the practice civility
and decorum discussions and debates. That's right out of our document. This
applies not just the council members but all of our commission members too and
our volunteers. And fin use of smartphones, laptops, etc. during
meetings can be distracting, create the appearance that officials are not paying
attention, and can compromise the rights of those with business before the city.
In particular, surreptitious communications regarding the public
hearing items undermines the integrity and fairness of the public hearing. I
hope no one is texting, trying to find out the the lay of the land, or getting
comments back and forth during any of our commission meetings or up here.
Finally, the last thing is conduct by city officials. The professional and
personal conduct of city officials ought to be above reproach and avoid even the
appearance of impropriety. This is the part I want to emphasize. City officials
should refrain should refrain from abusive conduct, personal charges, or
other verbal attacks upon other city officials, city employees, or members of
the public. We can take it, but we can't dish it out. All right? It's a free
country. You can say whatever you want to about us, but we've got to keep a
professional attitude about this and we got to make sure we're doing the city's
business and not uh giving the appearance that we're not paying
attention. That's all I have. Thanks very much.
» I just make two comments f first which I wasn't planning to you know there's I
haven't witnessed any of what Doug was just talking about and I would I know
there's also a provision for reporting what you see if you think there's
something wrong and I would hope that if Doug thinks he's seeing something wrong
he'll spell out the specific details and that way it can be ironed out. Um the
other thing is on the 5G or the cell towers um what Joe says right I I
remember we had a very robust process for adopting legislation that deals with
them. We tried to make it as um difficult as we are legally permissible
to deal with the cell towers and um to regulate them as great as we can
consistent with federal law. We were got a lot of push back from our own lawyers
and I think we might even have pushed a little further than the lawyers
recommended but there is a process. I mean, if as somebody stated tonight, one
of the applications was false or misleading, that's obviously something
that someone needs to take a look at. Um, but there's, you know, we we are
part of a national system and unfortunately we've got a federal
government that and there's a big lobby that has billions of dollars that gets
the laws made in Washington. And um those laws are not friendly to us and
not friendly to the environment, but we're doing the best we can to keep our
our our town as rural and as um environmentally safe as possible, but
there's a limit to what we can do. Um but we can certainly continue to look at
what more we can do. Any further comments from anybody?
Maryann, >> I just wanted to respond on the Tranquus
Field, Tranus Park. Um, you know, this is something that I've been trying to
advocate for for since I got on council and even before I was on council. Um, we
don't have enough fields and the benefit of yes, we're at least using Tranquus
Park for the PR practice facility, which we weren't for a long long time. Um, but
there are lots of games that are trying to find homes and the people who are
scheduling with AISO. They need that space and that's why it is important to
allow for league play on every possible field that we have within the city of
Malibu. Um, I know it's not a regulation field, but it will s certainly fulfill
the needs of the younger um, AYSO and it gives an an opportunity. So, I would
just like to ask Malibu Township Council one more time, please work with the city
attorney so we can get that condition removed. Um, we've been asking for over
a year uh to have their board make a determination on this and from what I've
heard, they have not had a board meeting to discuss this. So, I would just ask
that they please um do that, work with our city attorney, and let's get that
deed restriction removed so that um younger AYso players can have games um
on a field in our city. Thank you, >> Marian. If I could make a quick comment,
I I did check into this. It's not just the Melbourne Township Council, it was
the local residents that were uh against league play. And I think if we want to
ask uh the city attorney or the MTC to get involved in this, we probably need
to give some direction from the city council on it.
» We did a year ago. >> Yeah. To be fair, uh I was informed by
MTC's president that it has been considered at one of their meetings, but
he doesn't have anything to report on it.
» Okay. And I'm not sure that's true that the council gave direction. I think
people made some individual comments. >> I think I thought we did. I I don't
know. I I'm pretty sure we gave We had >> There was direction. Yeah, there was.
Okay. >> Um,
» stand corrected. Yeah. >> We done.
» Okay. We are finished with council comments. Um, we are now at 5A, second
reading and adoption of flood plane management ordinance and adoption of
emergency ordinance. So, we'll hear that item now. Please raise your hand in Zoom
if you'd like to speak on this item and you'll be called after the staff report.
Are there um comment cards? >> Great.
And how many people are on Zoom at this moment that have raised their hand?
» There's one raised hand. Okay, I think that that's enough time for those hands.
So, we have the one. Uh, can we have a staff report, please?
» Good evening, Mayor Silverstein, honorable members of the council. I'm
here to uh present an item on the second reading of the flood plane management
management ordinance and if you please allow me to begin with recap of what was
discussed at the previous meeting. So we talked about
yes talked about the national flood insurance program that city participate
in and it's a subsidied flood insurance and it's available to those cities that
that have adopted flood plane management regulations designed to prevent and
mitigate flood damage. that [clears throat] cities must adopt
the regulation that meet or exceed the requirements set forth in title 44 part
60 of the code of federal regulations. And currently the flat plane uh
ordinance that city has in place identify authority of the city council
for uh reviewing and approval of uh projects that are located within the
flood plane and approval of the variances if if that's what the design
requires for.
The proposed amendments to the existing ordinance applies to Palisades fire
rebuilds and uh what was discussed previously at
the previous meeting is the changes are the changes that were proposed. The
first change was identifying flood plan administrator as public works director
to grant development permits in accordance with chapter 1520 of the
municipal code. defined uh flood plan administrator
authority to ensure that variances for septic system and seaw walls that
protect those system for palisades fire rebuilds midsp specific mandatory design
and construction regulation set by FEMA.
We also talked about more revisions which are establish an expedited
administrative process for issuance of variances for seaw wall protecting
septic system associated with policy fire rebuilt
state that decision made by the flood blade administrator may be uh may be
appealed to city council. It outlined conditions for variances for seaw walls
project uh protecting uh septic system and uh requires recordardation with Los
Angeles County and submittal of a FEMA elevation certificate.
Next couple slides go into information that was requested on the actual
language of code of federal regulations and it goes into flood management
criteria for plot prone areas section 16.3
which talks about the installation of sanitary sewer system that uh protection
needs to be the installation needs to be ensured that Um the they they have to be
installed in a way that there is no dis discharge from the system into flood
waters. Uh there is no contamination in flooders infiltration
and the system uh will be located in such way that it avoid impairment to
them or contamination from them during flooding. There is also a section of the
code uh that talks about um new construction or substantial improvements
in the zones and vzones um that um need to require the um have
um open space below the lowest uh floor elevation. It it has to be
clear of obstruction. So that also goes into installation of a septic system and
the seaw walls that protect them.
However, if the um certified engineer or architect can demonstrate that there is
no other location for installation of such septic system
but uh only flat plane then FEMA will allow installation.
uh but uh there needs to be a process for variance and exceptions set by a
local government and um this is also spelled out in the
code of federal regulations in section 60.6 variances and exceptions and um it
goes into certain conditions that need to be met. that variances shall be only
issued by a community upon showing a good of sufficient cause. A
determination the failure to grant the variances would result in exceptional
hardship to the applicant and determination that granting of a
variance will not result in increased flood height, additional threat to
public safety, extraordinary public expense, um create nuisance, cause
fraud, um etc. and variances should only be issued upon determination that
variance is minimum necessary considering the flood hazard to afford
relief.
Um staff um additionally um made the following findings
um that uh will allow to make to adopt the urg ordinency ordinance to
um uh for this provisions and they include um protection of public health
and safety by preventing the discharge to untreat water,
delay in improving the construction or repair of septic system and seaw walls
may result in environmental hazard and uh failure to timely administer and
enforce flood plane regulations in compliance with FEMA requirements may
jeopardize eligibility of participation in national uh flood insurance program.
With this urgency finding um it's possible to adopt urgency
ordinance which will uh go into effect immediately.
And thank you very much. This concludes my presentation.
» Okay. I have some questions. Does anybody else on council have any
clarifying questions before I ask mine? >> Uh [clears throat] just a quick
question. uh this language that we have right now this has been approved by FEMA
and who else? >> This been reviewed and approved by FEMA
stuff work that was multi-mons effort [clears throat] uh with FEMA. We
actually also worked with uh scientists from the building standards uh up in
Washington the the people who set up building standards but that was all
facilitated through FEMA but yes you're correct the language was approved by
FEMA. >> So if we make it If we make changes to
it, we have to go back to FEMA. >> We have to go back to FEMA and that
might delay the process significantly. >> Okay. Thank you.
» Okay. So, before I ask my questions, I want to be clear. These questions are
not intended to be critical of anybody. They are because I genuinely need to
understand things better. Sometimes people think that when I ask my
questions, I'm I'm using it as a form of criticism. It's not. It's a form of this
is the way we get information. And secondly, an answer if I don't know is
perfectly acceptable. It's not it's not a badge of dishonor to not know the
answer. It speeds things along speeds things along and identifies what still
needs to be determined. It's it's better than trying to figure things out on the
fly. Um the other thing is, you know, I'm a lawyer. I've been a lawyer for
close to 40 years and I read codes and I sometimes read them different than I I I
do read them different than non- lawyers read them. And um I want to make sure
that we're reading this code, this these federal regulations correctly before we
begin to tinker with our existing ordinance. So my first question is
60.3A6, I'm sorry, 60.3 E5. This is the um
provision that deals with um the obstruction. Now with Rob explained to
us and maybe touch on it, you might have explained to us earlier and I I get this
that an that a seaw wall constitutes an obstruction. So um correct this would
apply to seaw walls on new constru underneath beneath new construction and
substantial improvements. >> I don't view new construction and
substantial improvements to necessarily capture a rebuild following a disaster.
And I know we have interpreted the rebuilds to not be new construction or
improvements of existing construction elsewhere outside of FEMA. And I've gone
through the um FEMA regulations and there are multiple instances in which
there's also an or other development identified besides for new construction
and substantial improvements. And there are many that don't have that additional
language such as this one. So how do we how have we come to the conclusion that
603 apply E5 applies in the first instance to a rebuild that is a like
forlike rebuild. >> Federal um FEMA and uh per federal code
FEMA reviews this um rebuilds as a new construction or substantial
improvements. Is that is there a provision in another regulation because
I couldn't find it in this one that says that for purposes of these federal
regulations the term new construction and substantial improvement includes a
like forlike rebuild of a home destroyed in a disaster.
» It doesn't have that specific lang language. However, rebuilding of the
structure from ground zero because it's um it's a destroyed um home considered
by FEMA considered new construction. >> Where is that set forth in writing?
» It it is for application of the regulation. Uh the the rules and
regulation have to uh apply as they said today.
That's why uh FEMA FEMA needs to make sure all the requirements are met at the
construction today. >> Well, so what is there besides for new
construction and substantial improvements that would constitute other
development that's captured by a few of the provisions of the regulations but
which isn't identified here? >> Um other developments, everything else
that are not does not constitute new construction or uh substantial
improvements. So I guess minor improvements it's it can be minor
improvement but if it's in the flood zone the FEMA still needs to uh the
regulations set up by um code of federal regulations still need to be made.
» All right that those are my questions about that. I'll have some comments
later. The second question I have is 60.3 A6 which deals with new and oh and
by the way this also says replacement sanitary sewage. So again, it's another
example of they know how to use the word replacement when they intended to use it
as contrasted with only new, which is what's used for the seaw walls. But
that's not my question. This is an affirmative requirement. New and
replacement sanitary sewage systems need to be designed to minimize or eliminate
infiltration of flood waters into the systems and discharges from the systems
into flood waters. I am I correct in understanding that a variance would only
be required not a variance is not required for a septic system. It's only
required for a septic system that doesn't satisfy this standard.
» You're correct. >> Okay. So, we're not if we adopt these
this ordinance, we're not imposing a variance requirement on anybody for a
septic system that satisfies this requirement. Only for ones that don't.
» If they Yeah, if they can satisfy this this requirement. Correct.
» Okay. Um so, make that clear then. very
» it's just if if I may just add it just it just doesn't apply to the situation
that we're reviewing tonight because we're talking about the Palisades fire
rebuilds on the coastal um on on the on the ocean side. So we already know that
uh those require those septic system cannot meet those requirements.
» I'm sorry. So the septic systems on in the ocean or near the ocean will not be
able to minimize or eliminate infiltration of flood waters into the
systems and discharges from the systems into flood waters
» by installation of a seaw wall that will protect septic system.
» But without a seaw wall they cannot accomplish that.
» Correct. >> Okay. Okay. The variance requirements in
60.6A3 they're already in our code, right? We
already have them in there in hack verba basically.
» Yes, we have requirements in our code. >> Now the proposed variance requirements
for the seaw wall are far more extensive than the ones that are already in our
ordinance elsewhere and are set forth in the FEMA regulations. Why are we adding
additional requirements that aren't in this code?
Uh you're talking about the comparison of the local requirements. Yeah, FEMA is
uh FEMA absolutely fine if the local requirements actually more restrictive.
» The problem Yeah. >> But why are we proposing more
restrictive requirements than the FEMA requirements for purposes of a waiver?
We don't require it currently when it's the city council that approves it and we
have a council policy of not imposing any obligations that are beyond those
required by federal, state or county law in the case of these rebuilds. So why
are we affirmatively creating new more restrictive burdens on somebody that
wants to build a seaw wall for their lake forlike replacement, needs to build
a seaw wall for their lake forlike replacement.
» Right? We are that's why we're talking only about palisades or builds that are
in the ocean side because they are located within the flood zone. So the
federal federal requirements will apply for for the house that located somewhere
else if they're outside of the flood zone. Uh we uh we won't um we won't need
to um [clears throat] require them to comply.
Okay. But see 60.6A3 6 A3 this is the the FEMA reg says variances shall only
be issued upon by a community upon I a showing of good and sufficient cause
double I a determination that failure to grant the variance would result in
exceptional hardship to the applicant and triple I a determination that the
granting of a variance would not result in increased flood heights additional
threats to public safety extraordinary public expense create nuisances cause
fraud on the victimization of the public or conflicting with existing local laws
or ordinances Then you can go to four. Also, variances shall only be issued
upon a determination that the variance is the minimum necessary considering the
flood hazard to afford relief. That's the law right now. And if we didn't
change our code at all and the variances had to come to the city council for
approval, that would be what needs to be determined. That and that and that alone
for purposes of granting a variance, right?
» Yes. >> Okay. We're proposing in this new
ordinance to add a whole laundry list of additional requirements to get a
variance, are we not? >> No, we're we're following the same
requirements. >> Um, does somebody have the red line? Is
the red line in our package? >> Yes. Okay.
Look at page. It's it's the final two pages of the uh of the staff report on
5A.
» We have require we have required determinations here that um it's the
smallest size and placement as landward as possible. Um not will not be utilized
for structural support of the building. Shall minimize the obstruction to flood
flow as much as possible. must comply with all the following regulations. And
there's there's ones listed. None of those words are in 60.6A
three or four. So why are we now creating those those specific
requirements that aren't in our law right right now? If somebody came to the
city council and asked for variance under our existing code, we wouldn't
look at any of those things. Why are we putting them in here as burdens on
people who want to rebuild after the fire? uh we're providing the language
that are giving um giving set parameters for designing of the septic system. So
if if that um if that can follow certain rules
um we're just giving them more um options for
» well are we giving them more options or we making it more restrictive?
» We're not making them more restrictive. they're they're still within the flood
zone and we still uh we still make them follow the federal
regulations. So is not being permitted to serve in any way as structural
support of the building something that we would currently require under the
existing code. If somebody somebody proposed a seaw wall that also partially
serves as support and it otherwise satisfies the language of 60.3 A3 and 4,
would we say no, you can't do that. We're requiring that it not serve as
structural support. >> Uh yes, we're talking about this the
seaw wall for protection of the septic system. Those are the changes we're
making by by uh by this modifications. So right now, forget the Palisades fire.
If somebody wants to build a brand new home on a vacant lot on the beach and
they come for a variance to build a seaw wall to protect a sew to protect the um
septic system, would we in order to satisfy the variance requirement of
60.6A3 6A 3 and 4. Would they have to establish that their seaw wall that is
designed to protect their septic system doesn't in any way, shape or form serve
as a structural support for the for the house as well?
» Yes, they have to they have to follow the same requirements that are set in
the code of federal regulations. >> Where where is that requirement in the
code of federal regulations that's before us?
» That is in the ordinance in the proposed language of the ordinance. Where is that
in the code of federal regulations that we are seeking to implement through our
local ordinance? >> It's it's in the in the this section uh
in title 44 section 60. >> Can can you identify the provision of of
section 60 that puts forth that requirement? It might be there. I'm I I
don't know. I've just I didn't see it when I looked quickly.
I might um
» at the same time if you [snorts] could also I want to know where it is that
where it says that in order to gr a variance it has to be the smallest size
and as landward as possible. >> Yeah that that's that language is all in
the um code of federal regulations.
the one that we have in front of us. 60 >> 16.
» Okay. Where? >> Again, I'm I'm not saying it's not. I I
would like to see where it is.
The question
» question is I'm trying to identify where in the code of federal regulations the
various requirements that we're establishing for a variance for our for
granting a variance are set forth in the code of federal regulations because I
see them in our code as I mean the fact that they're not there already to me is
troubling because if they're not there now and we're granting variances. That
suggests to me that they don't need to be there. All we're doing, all we're
supposed to be doing through this change is grant the public works director the
authority to do what the council currently already has the authority to
do. We can do that in three words. I mean, that's an exaggeration, but what
why are we adding substantive requirements to that the public works
director has to determine are satisfied that the city council currently doesn't
have to determine are satisfied? >> We're just adding currently we're just
adding language from the code of federal regulations. There is just more language
added to this um variance that's through our process working with FEMA. So, so
these requirements are already implicitly in our ordinance when the
city council's asked to grant a variance.
» They they are in the code of federal regulations. So, when we receive when we
review uh the project which proposes a septic system and a seaw wall, we still
have to follow all this federal regulations and have to obtain the FEMA
elevation certificate and have to and have to go through all this um checklist
that we're um we have to verify. So, so right now under our existing code, if a
um property owner who wants to rebuild a lake for lake comes to the city council
and asks for a variance because that's the way it currently works, right? We
would even though these words are not in our city ordinance, we would require all
of these very same things to be satisfied that are now specified in red
ink. >> Yes. public works staff through review
and uh review of process of the project they will verify uh all these
requirements are met. >> Okay,
those are my questions. I'm I am going to make a comment because it's pertinent
to why I'm asking these questions in in my way of doing legislation. I've been
I've written legislation and worked on committees done legislation for years.
If something's not broke, you don't fix it because the fix might actually break
it. Um, if this is already here implicitly, there's no need to put it in
explicitly. It may not be there. It may not be required under the federal
regulation. If it's not required under the federal regulation, we're requiring
it by putting it in here. If it is required by the federal regulation, it's
already there. So, we don't need to say it because it's already there. I'm
hearing concerns from residents that we're creating new restrictions, that
we're making things more burdensome. If all we do is give the um planning
director the ability to do what the city council currently has the ability to do
and do nothing else, then we haven't enlarged or or um diminished whatever
the federal rules are. They're there. We're being told this is for the purpose
of facilitating more expedition. I'm concerned that what this is doing is
creating more restriction. So, you know, that that will guide people's comments
hopefully. I might be completely wrong, but that's the way I look at drafting
legislation is you don't you when you're when you're adopting a local ordinance
to implement a federal ordinance, you don't reinterpret the federal ordinance.
You simply say we have to follow the federal ordinance, which is what we
currently have in our existing ordinance. So, um, does anybody else
have any questions based on that public comment? Then, Dean Don Schmidtz
followed by Dean Wer followed by Darren Graves. Those are the only inerson
speakers we have.
» Evening, council members. Very good questions. Mayor Silverstein. Um, I
would uh I would address the the first prong of what you you raised. It's not
the rebuild of the house or the structure per se. It's the increase in
the size of the shoreline protection device, which is the new development.
And that is predicated upon a coastal engineers report. The shoreline
protection device needs to be of sufficient height to protect the septic
system itself. Uh my experience which I've done a few of these over the years
up and down the coastline is pertains to uh the minimum size and being located as
landward as possible is something that has been driven by the California
coastal act. And so uh I am somewhat chagrined that I cannot point directly
to uh the federal regulation and the questions which you were raising and uh
I should uh I came here to uh foolishly thinking that this was going to be a a
early item on tonight and I I did want to give you the accolades and your staff
for taking this necessary step. It is important and it sounds like uh uh we
may well be on the same page that if we can come up with an administrative
process so that we don't have to have 300 plus city council hearings. I don't
need that work. I've got plenty already. Uh that would be a very loudable and
appropriate goal if this can be handled administratively. So, uh, and I know
this is not something that was, uh, taken on lightly, and I do appreciate
the fact that the city coordinated closely with FEMA to make sure that we
would remain in compliance with our national flood insurance program. We
can't jeopardize that. So, there's definitely u uh something that needs to
happen here in regards to allowing this to happen on administrative level. It's
often been said that Malibu has a greater challenge on the rebuild front
because we have unique constraints. I'm not always convinced by that, but one
thing that's incontrovertible is 300 plus beach homes burning up. Uh that is
something that brings in the FEMA and the shoreline protection devices and the
and the beach on-site wastewater treatment systems. A quick a quick check
with AI, which means it must be true, is that the 300 plus homes that we lost in
the Palisades fire is the worst example of beach homes burning up in a wildfire
in the history of the United States. So, we really do need to get this done.
Otherwise, all the excellent work that you've done to streamline this process
is going to be for not. So, uh, I I do again very much appreciate this
direction and strongly urge that with the right verbiage, you come up with an
administrative process. Thank you,
» Dean. Thank you, Don.
» Thank you. Don and I actually first met at the planning commission meeting last
February, and I was there because I was concerned about this exact type of
fundamental issue. the the the issue that we have before us is that the FEMA
requirements do do not go into the level of detail of the red text you have in
front of you. Free of obstruction does not mean what it says. Free of
obstruction. It does not prohibit those things. Free of obstruction means that
it's an open foundation. Essentially, you have pylons and the water can move.
That's all that that means. Okay. [snorts] At the end of the day, the
other items, be it septic or seaw wall or other obstructions such as plumbing
and other things, FEMA P-348 as well as NFIP technical bulletin
number five clearly show these items. The reason they say free of obstruction
is because they want to counsel people to realize that if you have
obstructions, you need to have your engineer design a more robust structure
to be able to take the additional forces that will occur from wave action
underneath it. That can easily be done every day. So, it doesn't mean that it's
a non-specification item requiring a variance. Not at all. It's never been
done. It's not a requirement. What's happening here unfortunately is just
like the sea level rise and just like the BFE discussion. We have people
around here and I respect their opinions, but their opinions are
preferences. They're not requirements. They are coastal act items. Coastal act
is suspended. They do not apply to us. If I want to build that way, I can. The
reason FEMA's not objecting to the review is because if you recommend
something more robust, more challenging, they're happy to approve it. So, it
means it's the city recommending that, not FEMA. So, please, this is not good
discussion here tonight and does not build the trust I and others are looking
for. What I suspect this is about, and I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not usually
wrong, [snorts] is we have a situation where
because it deviates from the Coastal Act, people want to use this variance
process as an accounting method to allow the Coastal Commission, the Water
District, and others to track these properties. It's an accounting method.
I've had discussions with people when I did my own PV back months ago. You do
not have my building plans because of issues like this. I am not going I have
too much respect for money to build more than I need to build and where I want
it. It's my option. So, [snorts] thank you. Thank you, Dean. there.
Uh, good evening again. Um, I'm not going to question the validity of what
Mr. Winner said, uh, because I'm not going to espouse conspiracy theories
about accounting, but I do think that the intention of this ordinance is a
good one. Um because at face value one would understand that any CDP in the
city of Malibu which does have a seaw wall below the BFE creates a need for
variance. Thus maybe 90% of these 320 rebuilds even though they're building
back like for like they will be installing a new seaw wall thus
triggering the need for variance and 80% of those 320 applicants will be coming
to the city council for that variance. it'll clog up the system. I think the
intent of the ordinance is to get rid of that potential bottleneck. A bottleneck
which could cause delays for people coming back home. Thus, I think you
should approve it. And if there are some sort of conspiratorial accounting things
that come out of it, so be it. But I don't think anybody's going to notice
because they'll be back at home enjoying the sunsets that they appreciate so
much. Thank you. >> Thank you, Darren.
I believe we had one speaker on Zoom. Yes, Danny Smith.
» Good evening, council. Can you hear me? >> We can hear you, Danny.
» Mayor Bruce, thank you. I appreciate your questions. I don't know if the new
language is conflating California requirements with FEMA requirements as
Don uh suggested. I do know that planning is already requiring seaw walls
to be placed as landward as possible. So, I'm not sure how that this could
open anyone up to an appeal if that's the concern because planning isn't going
to approve a seaw wall that's any more seawword than it has to be. It would
never reach any sort of appeal stage with an unacceptable design. I'm reading
the federal regulations right now and they say that new construction or
substantial improvements in the VE zone must be free of obstruction
or constructed with non-supporting breakaway walls. You can't build a seaw
wall with breakaway walls. So, in no way do I see room to interpret it interpret
FEMA's regulations as somehow allowing seaw walls without a variance. So, as I
see it, there's a federal requirement that we can't wave nor violate unless we
want to lose our ability to manage the flood plane, which we don't. We have a
current system that works, but it's slow. Therefore, the city's reached an
agreement with FEMA on a way to speed it up to meet the needs of this moment. I
thank the city for that. It's unfortunate that we have to deal with
these FEMA requirements, but it is what it is. Thank you.
» Right. Thank you, Danny. That closes public comment. Bring it back up to city
council. Who would like to speak first?
» I guess I will. Um, I was clear on what I was voting on earlier. Um I I what
I've studied over the whole week has been that we're
um streamlining the process for seaw walls with a administrator of public
works that then we can get people back in their homes safely and quickly and
get insurance for those homeowners. So now am I hearing something different or
deviation from that because I'm confused?
» Yes, this um this new ordinance uh will streamline this process.
» Yes. [clears throat] [snorts]
» All right. Um first of all, I'm going to say Dean, you're wrong that um this is
there's anything nefarious behind this. I I mean I I agree with the comments
that this is being done for good purposes. It's being done with the
intention of facilitating more efficient, economical, and expedited
rebuilds on the beach. I am concerned that it is inadvertently
um bringing in LCP requirements that don't exist right now. And I and I and
you I don't think Don was saying they were being conflated. I think Don was
saying he's embarrassed to not know where in the federal regulation it is.
But I think the fact is they are being conflated. I think I think there are
certain things in here that we're used to requiring because we're used to
having the LCP apply and they've been just put in here without the fact
without regard for the fact that they're not necessarily built into the Code of
Federal Regulations. But as I said before, even if if they are in the Code
of Federal Regulations, there's no need to say them in our local ordinance
because they're already there by virtue of the repeating the exact language from
the Code of Federal Regulations. if they're not in the Code of Federal
Regulations, I think we are burdening people with additional requirements that
don't exist currently. And that's contrary to what we're seeking to
accomplish. So, I am not convinced that a variance
is needed for any seaw wall. I I see the argument that it is. I suspect that
argument might even be accurate, but I don't know that it is for certain. And
again, I don't know why we need to create an affirmative obligation to get
a variance for a seaw wall if the federal regulations currently require a
variance for a seaw wall. And and if Dean wants to spend the next nine months
arguing with people that it doesn't and and insisting on not asking for a
variance and maybe going to superior court to get a determination, it's his
right to do that. But if we adopt a local ordinance that affirmatively says
to have a seaw wall for your lake forlike rebuild, you must get a
variance, we are now cutting off any argument that it doesn't currently exist
under federal law, which is the opposite of what we've all been saying we want to
do for the past year. Same thing for the um for the um
the septic systems, but may but maybe that's not as important. But what I've
gone through this carefully and you know I understand that we really don't have
the luxury of changing these words on the fly because
doing so if we were to adopt an ordinance other than the one the FEMA
representatives it's not FEMA you know it's people employed at FEMA just like
when people say the city council when it's really the staff that spoke to
somebody or the coastal commission when it's somebody at the coastal commission
staff that's said something. But if we change these,
we might do something that they're not satisfied with. So, so in a sense, our
hands are tied. It comes to it comes to us fully baked and we're told take it or
leave it because if we don't take it exactly the way it is and make changes
to it, it'll it'll blow up in our face. That's not fair. We we we need to be
able to debate whether these provisions are necessary and appropriate and have
our determinations and maybe I'll be the only one up here that thinks this way,
but have our determinations be taken back to FEMA and and asked will this
work for you? It not not we have to do this. As I read this whole all the red
all the red ink, there's really only one place in which an affirmative obligation
to get a um a variance is being imposed. It's in
subsection F to section 15.20.150 20.150 because it says current if the proposal
is seaw walls designed to constructed for
the sole purpose of protecting septic systems blah blah blah are subject to a
variance. Why not use the exact same language as
the code of federal regulations? All new construction and substantial improvement
that includes now Dean [clears throat] says it's not even a seaw wall. and I
and I actually agree with him. That includes an obstruction. Use the exact
words of the federal regulation and leave people if they want to to debate
that they don't need a variance. That's up to them. If they go for the variance,
they're going to get it very quickly and they're going to be able to move on and
we've done our our our part to help them. But if they want to take the
position that the Code of Federal Regulations, which is what we're trying
to implement here, don't require a variance for a seaw wall, let them make
their argument. the um
section 6 15.20.080 subsection 6 has a lot of red ink.
There's a huge paragraph that's being added.
All we need to say is if a property owner should need to construct a
[clears throat] seaw wall to protect the septic system serving a beachfront
property destroyed by the Pacific Palisades fire if they should need to an
application is submitted for and an application is submitted for a variance
to construct such seaw wall. the flood plane administrator shall have the
authority to grant such a variance. So, we're not imposing the obligation. We're
simply saying if you need a variance for this thing, which you may or may not
need, we are empowering the flood plane administrator to grant the variance.
Section 15.2.180 is a is proposed to be amended as
follows. A variance for the construction of substantial improvement repair to a
seaw wall. By the way, that there's there's something garbled there. It says
a variance for the construction or substantial improvement repair to a seaw
wall. I think there's a word missing that is intended only for the protection
of a septic system may be issued by the flood plane administrator conditioned
upon the provisions and requirements set out in 15.200
and 15.2010. That language is unnecessary. It needs
only to say hold. Oh, that that whole that whole
provision is unnecessary because it's already covered elsewhere.
And again, it arguably creates an inference. 15.20190
says, "Decision, this is the proposed amendment. Decisions made by the flood
plane administrator under the authority granted in section 15.2070 may be
appealed directly to the city council if necessary. Variances granted for seaw
walls intended specifically to protect septic systems shall be processed on an
exped." I like that. Um what it says though arguably is that a a neighbor has
the right to go to the city council to oppose the grant of a variance because
it says they can be appealed. Um it should say decisions to deny a requested
variance made by the flood plane administrator under the authority
granted in section 1522070 may be appealed by the applicant
directly to the city council. Any appeal from the denial of an application for a
variance to construct a seaw wall serving a beachfront property destroyed
by Pacific Palites fire shall be processed on an expedited basis. I I
can't put this up on the board like staff does when they present, but I I
think we should be narrowly tailoring this language and not just having
general language. Um the title to 1520210
along with the text of subsection A imply but don't affirmatively state that
a variance is required in these circumstances. That implication can be
eliminated. We could say we could make the title special expedition of
applications for any variances that may be required with respect to construction
of lake for lake rebuilds of beachfront properties destroyed by the palisades
fire rather than for var special variance provisions for seaw walls to
protect septic systems. We could then say under the heading expedited
variances simply the following applications for a variance that may be
required for the construction of lake forlike rebuilds of properties destroyed
by the Pacific Palates fire um
are eligible for expedited variances to facilitate the timely development permit
approvals. That's that the the the latter part of that's already in there.
I just added the the the initial part. Um,
I have a couple others, but I mean the point is I've gone through this very
carefully with a deliberate effort to make sure that we're not expanding upon
whatever's in the CFR because whatever's in the CFR, we're bound to follow. We
have an ordinance that we prepared years ago that nobody's had any problem with.
FEMA hasn't had any problem with it. We've been implementing it however we've
been implementing it. And it doesn't have a lot of these things in here. All
we're seeking to do, we're being told. and I agree is expedite the way you get
a variance. Not change what you need to do to get a variance, but expedite the
way you get the variance. Shift it from the city council to the administrator. I
really don't know why we didn't need to just say that. just say just add a
provision that says in where it states that the city council has that a
variance will be issued by the city council in cases where a lake forlike
rebuild resulting from the palisades fire is being constructed any variant
should be required the flood administrator whoever the person is
shall have the authority to do it. Bruce, if I could
» one one last thing. Okay. >> I also wanted to add and I a provision
at the very end of this that says nothing in this chapter is intended to
suggest that a variance of the type addressed by this chapter is required to
construct a seaw wall to protect a septic system serving a lake forlike
rebuild of a structure on a beachfront property destroyed by the Pacific
Palisades fire. Nor is this provision intended to suggest that a variance of
the type addressed by this chapter is not required for such construction.
Rather, this chapter simply sets forth a process for obtaining such a variance if
and when it's requested. Whether such a variance is required in the first
instance is governed by applicable federal laws and regulations. We should
not meddle. There have been many appeals that I've seen and include in including
the and including the Riddic case that went to the the appeals court and came
out against us that were because someone in this city when mimicking a statute
somewhere else changed a word, inserted a comma, made an and or flipped the way
a sentence was written. And as a result of doing that, we had a substantively
different law than we were intending to have. When you're dealing with
legislation, you don't make you don't make changes that aren't necessary
because every single period, every comma, every word that you inject can
have substantive significance. You do the least harm possible. And we're not
doing that. We're going out of our way here with an intention of being helpful,
which could end up blowing up in the face of our residents who are trying to
create like for Lake Rebels. And that's the point Dean's been making. I don't
attribute any ill will to anybody. I think this is being done for all of the
best purposes, but I think we're going overboard and perhaps inadvertently
creating bad requirements. So, I would defer this. Maybe I'm sure I I suspect I
would defer this. I would go back to FEMA with a request that we simply amend
this to to to shift the the approval request to the administrator for these
limited purposes if they're required. Full stop. It's all we need to do. I
don't know why we didn't do just that in the beginning. So, Doug, go ahead.
» Yeah, Bruce, you know, as I listen to you, you've you've got major issues with
this and you're substantially rewriting what's on here, and I I appreciate that.
I honestly, I talk all the time about all five of us bring our skills to the
table, and you're bringing your skill to the table, and we need to consider that.
Um, I don't disagree with you one bit. This
the efficiency would be to say reference such and such and shut up and go home.
Uh that we don't need to re recite everything. So my questions are a couple
fold here. First off, how did this get written? Did we write this? Where did it
come from? We did we work with FEMA and just to add
a little bit more information about uh I know we're talking about like for like
rebuild but from a FEMA perspective FEMA doesn't look at it like for like for
like rebuild because some of those homes might be built you know 50 years ago
under totally different regulations and um different flood maps. So that's why
uh all this language was made um into that new ordinance to stay there because
of the all this new um rules apply. But
» I mean we look at it as like to like rebuild but they're not they're not like
for like rebuild because when we're talking about like for like we're
talking more about the square footage of the house if there is additional
bedrooms but what FEMA is looking for it's a totally different uh parameters.
» Okay. Um, you know, if you if you really think
about it, why do we even need to have FEMA approve
uh where the appeal is going to be approved? I guess that's that's the
start of my question. If the if it's the city internal, we could delegate this to
the uh public works director and that would be it. Would it not? Is that not
acceptable to FEMA? the fact we've got the same rules we had before and we're
just going to have the public works director approve it.
» Well, that will qualify us to participate in the um in the flat
insurance to continue participating and even more than that um that might uh
jeopardize from getting federal grants and assistant in in the future
disasters. >> Okay, I'm I'm aware of what the pitfall
would be, but I'm thinking this is an administrative issue. What keeps us from
administratively assigning it to any person to do it as opposed to the city
council having to do the appeal? I mean, why does FEMA care about how we do this
internally? >> That's that's our process. That's our
current process. >> Well, I understand that's our process,
but why does FEMA care if we want to change it to where the public works
director can appeal can approve it? >> We can go back to FEMA and possibly they
will be open to changing this language. However, uh that's the language they
have approved right now and uh for us to modify anything, I think we we're facing
uh sign significant delays in instead for helping all these houses to get to
get rebuilt faster. >> How long ago did we start this with
FEMA? >> That that took several months.
» Say again. >> Several months. More than six months.
» Okay. So, you think we'd have to do the same six-month routine
» at least? Yes, with uh yeah, with the shutdowns
of the government, it might be even more.
» Yeah, I I really think uh I agree with Bruce. You run the risk whenever you
copy and paste something uh you run the risk of a not following the changes that
might have occurred in the law as well as you make a mistake somewhere, you you
you've tripped yourself up. Um, let's hear what anybody else might have to
say, but um, Marian, >> I I'm I'm troubled by how long it might
take to get get a change to this.
» Um, [clears throat] well, I just I think I want clarification from the city
attorney. Does the city council have the authority
to change and delegate the flood plan administrator
as the authority to um make this determination and grant these variances?
» So, we have the power to change our code. Absolutely. You could change this
to whatever you want. The issue is um from section 60.1A of the federal
regulations we're looking here. here says the app provides that flood
insurance shall not be sold or renewed under the program within a community
unless the community has adopted adequate flood plane management
regulations consistent with federal criteria. So the question being um
whether they would determine that the program is consistent with the federal
criteria. Now, if it's just an administrative change, I think it would
be a difficult argument that um it's not consistent with the federal criteria,
but you have a guaranteed language in front of you um here that has been
signed off by them. Um but um it would be a difficult argument, I think, for
them to say that it's not consistent for just making an administrative change,
but you are taking on risk by doing that. Well, I mean there's other areas
of the code where we designate a staff member to be the administrator of codes,
i.e. the building code. >> Yep.
» So, I guess I'm just looking for clarification. Do we have the authority
to just designate and so do we need to make changes to our ordinance in order
to designate >> that change?
Yes, because the code currently designates a process that requires the
variances to be to go to the city council. So, if you want to change that,
we would need to change our code. >> Okay. But look, it's not a binary
decision that we either make all these changes or we make only that other
change and take our chances. It's very easy to pick up the phone, call FEMA
tomorrow and ask them if all we do is add a paragraph that says where it says
city council makes these decisions, we've determined it ought to be for
purposes of these um rebuilds, the public works director. And the person
will either say, you got to be kidding me, or sure, why are you even bothering
to think that would be a problem? And I suspect they're going to say, of course,
and then we just adopt that one sentence and we're off to the races. And I would
have done that six months ago if I had understood this issue.
» Well, I well, I agree with what you're saying. In principle, I doubt that it's
that easy of just a phone call. >> Well, other thing I'd add to them is
that our president wants these rebuilds done as expeditiously as possible and
doesn't want to add any requirements, including building code requirements.
» Do you have a proposed solution? >> Yeah, we defer this for one more
meeting. We call FEMA in the interim and we find out whether if we just scrap all
these changes and only make the change of deferring to the um public works
director that's satisfactory to them. And if they say no, then we have a
harder decision to make. Well, maybe you all don't have a hard decision to make.
I I will still have a hard decision to make.
I'll move that we defer this for till the next meeting and then the interim
staff try to get the cons the sign off by FEMA to simply change this to def to
um delegate the authority to grant a variance in this limited circumstance to
the public works director. >> Yeah, we're running into risk that might
not get any response anytime soon. >> Yeah, they're closed right now.
» Federal government shut down FEMA. Um, also how many applications are pending
approval this? >> I know of at least two that are ready to
receive Darian that are >> and the only thing that they're holding
on is a public works stamp with this. >> Yes. Bring
» and the option would be then bringing them forward to a city council meeting
to have us approve the variance. >> Correct.
» Okay. So, if there's only two, how many are in the pipeline, do you think over
the next month? Oh, there will be there will be more. I know there is a two or
three more that are getting close to that point.
» Okay. So, >> and there will [clears throat] be there
will be more >> a handful over the next month or two.
» Bruce, I got a suggestion for you. >> Why don't we just do it this way? Why
don't we just have the uh public works director say they approve it, bring it
into the council as a consent item, that's the appeal done.
» I think we had a brown eye problem. >> I don't think we can just put a consent.
I think I think requires a public hearing
» because it's a variance regardless. We still have to have the full
» Yeah, be nice to be able to do that. Makes makes common sense, but violates
California law. But if if look, if we're talking about a handful of these over
the next month or two, I suspect even three. Um, let's bring them on. Let's
let's get let's hammer them out here. Let's do it quickly. Let's get the
people their approvals. and in the interim, let's work on getting FEMA to
agree that all we need is to defer the authority to the floodplane
administrator. And you know, so the the choice is possibly do a bunch of harm by
adding a bunch of words which maybe we don't need to add so that we can approve
it today and not have any public hearings or have a handful of public
hearings over the next couple months and in the interim try to see if we can't
work it out so that we don't have to take a chance on saying things we
shouldn't say. That that would be my preference.
» Yeah. Well, I agree with you, Bruce. Let's let's get these two that you've
got pinning right now on the agenda for next next meeting and do an expedited uh
variance approval, but with the recommendation of the public works
director and in this meantime see if we can't clean this up with FEMA because I
I don't see the real benefit of regurgitating all this information when
all we're really looking for is just a change of approval form. It's an
administrative issue. It's not It's not like we need to recite it. And I'm more
worried the more I think about this that FEMA makes a change somewhere in the
Federal Register. We don't catch it. It's in our ordinance. And because we
didn't catch it, now we're out of compliance. I I'm beginning to be more
worried about that now than anything else.
So why can't we just do a expedited variance approval? I mean, I got to tell
you, in in some states when they adopt laws like these that track federal law,
they just say you shall follow the federal law. One sentence, you know, you
don't need to regurgitate it and risk saying things wrong. You just adopt it
as the local law. >> I I'm I'm with you on that, Bruce. I I
think we're we're needlessly entangling ourselves when we don't need
to. So, I I'll move that we defer approval of this until we can have a
further conversation with FEMA about doing it more simply and in the interim
bring on the variance requests. Look, I cannot believe there's going to be a
public um upcry outcry when we hear these the
variance requests. I mean, even the Malibu Township Council is not going to
come in here with 15 speakers saying don't let this person have the variance
to construct their seaw wall. I I'll be shocked if anyone says boo. We'll have a
staff presentation. We'll have the person whose application is before us
say please grant us the variance and we'll vote. I
» I don't think it's so much an outcry by the community against these variance
applications. I think it's the time to the property owners that are waiting for
their stamp to commence construction. So, if we can get this done at the next
meeting, I wholeheartedly support this. If it's going to be,
» you know, we're we're trying to get permits issued and we can't delay
getting these permits. >> Right. That's my point is there's two
right now. Those two [clears throat] can be heard in two weeks and we can approve
them in an hour. >> That's providing staff can get those
reports. >> Hopefully, well, do we have a 30-day I
mean, this is not an open. >> Yeah. Can I refer to the city attorney
to um to see how how they can be done? The expedited approval.
» Yeah, this isn't that kind of this isn't a public hearing like a land use appeal.
Do we need to follow those kinds of procedures?
» We have set procedures for these variances that have been um that have
been brought forward before. I believe it requires a public hearing. Um we'd
have to go back. We don't hear them very often, but we have consistently heard
these on a regular basis for some time, I believe. Kelsey,
» if I will jump into I know Yolanda was telling me there's probably seven at
least seven to 10 more waiting that'll soon be coming just so we know like so
if if we do this we need to make sure uh it's going to be on the agenda going
forward for a few months. >> So what are the noticing requirements
for this type of a variance? >> So so we're absolutely certain we just
can't rubber stamp the public works director. We have to
to address >> we need to have a hearing
» to address the noticing question. I don't know the noticing requirements for
this type of item offhand. I'm looking at it now for the first time. Um we'll
have to confirm if there is an additional notice requirement beyond the
posting of the agenda and then with that we do have to at least post the items
with the agenda. Typically we try although we often amend we try to post
them 10 days in advance and we do have a internal review workflow before that.
So, it's usually a 19-day process for most items once the department's ready
to sign off on it to actually get it before you.
» If I may have Kelsey, I have a suggestion. So, sorry, Council Member
Stewart. I think uh you know, at the last meeting, we were planning to bring
this back for a second reading tonight and we weren't even going to do the
ordinance, uh the urgency ordinance. So, that tells me that there was some time
in the process to allow a 30-day uh appeal period to take effect after the
second reading of the ordinance. Uh, and is that fair? Uh, city attorney.
So, if first reading, last meeting, second meeting was tonight. We did the
urgency to make it effective tonight, but we weren't even planning to do the
urgency, >> right? But that would have held those
property owners at least 30 days from tonight before they would be able to
have their permit issued to commence construction. The purpose of the urgency
was so that we wouldn't have that 30-day delay or 30-day plus delay.
» I I I Yeah, that's kind of what I was trying to For some reason though, we we
at staff I don't I wasn't here. I don't know the rationale, but we were just
bringing a second reading tonight. you had the suggestion for urgency. It was
good to streamline, but clearly the applicant and staff had been talking
that there was time available. So, I I think to Kelsey's point, rushing this
for the next meeting could be a problem. Probably the earliest if we're going to
bring back these variances would be the April 13th meeting.
» The council also could adopt this tonight and then come back and change it
after speaking with FEMA would be an option, too. It may
» I don't know if it'll prejudice the conversation with FEMA, but you would be
able to make the changes to your code. >> I have one more. Um, so
once the variance is approved, is there a waiting period
after the city council makes that approval that the homeowner has to wait?
» There's an appeal period. >> And how long is that appeal period?
» It's a 30 days. 30-day appeal period. >> Appeal appeal to who?
» It's it's our uh it's in our municipal code. It just follows the um
» the variance requirements for >> the variance requirements.
» Well, first of all, Steve's been quiet and I know he's been waiting to talk.
So, let's let's get his comments and then we can continue.
» Okay. [clears throat]
My concern is FEMA's closed down. I have no idea when it's going to open up
again. And and we can sit around and say we're going to talk to them, but there
just nobody to talk to. All right? And I think the process of getting these
variances approved and getting these homeowners moving forward is the most
important thing we're supposed to be doing. Now I I and I'll go back to the
last comment Trevor made is that if we approve this, okay, and we get it done.
So we we can now move forward is what we have, we can always go back and talk to
FEMA at some point in time and say, "Look guys, if there was an easier way,
would you agree to allow us to make a change and do it the easier way?" I
think there's a shot at that. I don't I don't know what FEMA thinks, okay? But
it at least I got everything going forward and I just don't want to see
this thing get stalled right now because that is not what we're supposed to be
doing. I mean our job is at least in my mind. So I'm I'm inclined to say let's
approve this thing. If we got an issue, go back and talk to FEMA, see if we can
get something done there. If we need more help, if you need more help, go
back to FEMA, let us know. I don't know what I don't know what assistance we
could provide to make a conversation with them more meaningful, but I'm
certainly willing to consider whatever the hell you might have. But let's get
this done and move it forward. We We've been spending an hour and a half on
this. It's enough. Let's get it done. >> If I could make a motion, I I think the
right approach on this is do exactly what Trevor and Steve has suggested.
Let's make a motion to approve this tonight. direct the city staff to go
back and see if we can get a more efficient approach. And while we're
while we're working on the more efficient approach, we've got this less
than perfect uh document, but we're going to get people moving under
permits. And that's what the whole idea is. And yeah, we we might have 10 to 15
that maybe aren't as clean as we'd like, but at least we got them done. So I'll
make a motion to approve it >> with the condition that the staff uh
explores other options on how to make this more efficient.
» So that's staff's recommendation but directing the uh staff to reach out to
FEMA to seek to um more narrowly tailor the process um and the the amendment to
the ordinance. Is that correct? >> You said it better than I did. And that
would be to to uh um adopt urgency ordinance number 533U, an urgency
ordinance of the city of Malibu amending Malibu Municipal Code Chapter 15.20 to
make technical amendments to the flood plan management ordinance and finding
the same exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act.
» Anybody like it enough to second it? >> I second.
» I have a question. Where in the existing ordinance does it say that the city
council has to have a public hearing pursuant to the traditional land use
public hearing requirements? Where where is the public hearing
requirement of the city council in our existing
ordinance?
I'm not aware of that specified in there. I do know that we've held these
before and it's been a public hearing and that's how it's been processed.
Okay. >> I don't know if that's set up in
resolutions. I don't know if that's how we process them traditionally um
according to our other public hearings. I don't believe it's specified in the
flood plan ordinance. >> But is it underneath our regular
variance requirements under municipal? >> This is a different type of variance is
the same principles in effect that a that a variance under the zoning code or
under our LCP would involve. um and the reason that you set it up, but it is a
different variance. It's not a variance from those codes. It's a variance from
the requirements of the flood plane. Um those codes have specific hearing
specifications. >> That's correct.
» This one doesn't. If it doesn't, then we don't have
hearing requirements other than other it's an agenda item. And if it does, my
question is then how is passing it to the um administrator obviating the need
for them to have a public hearing?
» What we were doing is we're changing the code that would that [clears throat]
would remove any type of requirement for that.
» Where do we say that the hearing requirement is different? Just as just
as we're saying sending it to a different person,
» whatever the law is, it's still going to be the same law, but a different person
is going to be making the decision.
I'm just letting everybody know I'm going to abstain from this. I'd like to
go to the bathroom, please. Is that okay?
» Well, you can you're free to leave at any time, but we'll hold off the vote
for Are you going to Your votes could be an abstension?
» Yeah. I have no idea.
All right. >> So, so my my question is where do we say
affirmatively that whatever hearing requirement that may or may not exist
isn't going to be required still with the with the administrator making the
decision. >> Bruce, you bring up an excellent point.
Um, >> so we may not be accomplishing anything
except putting a whole bunch of verbiage into here that's not necessary yet.
» Well, we may not. We may be doing that, but I tell you what, let's let's get
these people moving forward. We've got a motion and a second.
» I don't know that it will be moving them forward. That's my point. If a hearing
is required of us and it doesn't say a hearing is not required of the public
works director, how are we moving people forward?
» Well, it's not an appeal. It's a variance. He's he's
» No, it's not an appeal here either in the first instance.
» This is not an [clears throat] appeal under the existing law. This is a
different the word. Forget that it says the word variance. It could be called
elephant. It's not the same thing as under the LCP or the MSC. We're proving
a the proving a variance, right? >> But the word variances used in the CFR
is not the same as the word variance is used in the LCP or the MMC. Words have
different meanings in different codes. They all depend on what you want them to
mean when you're grafting legislation. You can call I said you could call it an
elephant. You could call it a rhinoceros. It doesn't matter. The fact
that it uses the word variance doesn't mean it means the same thing as we're
accustomed to. Tatiana, when this was discussed with FEMA, it was understood
that this would be processed administratively by the public works
director. That process was approved from them to be compliant with the federal
regulations. >> Is that correct?
» You're correct. >> Where does it say that?
» That's through the approval of that. That's how we came up with all this
language and um to give the authority to the public works director.
» All right. Does anybody else have any comments?
Let's have a um roll call, please. >> Yes. And we do need a four-fifths vote
to adopt an emergency ordinance. Um but the roll call is council member Stewart.
» Hold on. Let's wait till council member Conrad returns because knowing that
could alter her vote because I'm going to vote now.
new piece of information. So, we're about to have a roll call vote, but this
requires four affirmative votes. Just so you know that.
» Okay, let's have the roll call. >> Yes. An urgency ordinance requires a
four-fifths vote of the council. A regular ordinance can be adopted by a
simple majority. So, the motion before you is to adopt ordinance 533
um and adopt ordinance 533U and direct staff to contact FEMA um about ways to
more narrowly tailor the process. So, the roll call vote is council member
Stewart. >> Yes.
» Council member Rigggins. >> Yes.
» Council member Conrad. >> Are we changing code tonight?
» This would change the code. >> To change code, so I'm abstaining.
» Sorry. It's fine. Mayor Protoiring.
» Yes. >> Mayor Silverstein.
» No. I move that we defer approval of this. And
» just for the record, that motion failed. >> Yes. Thank you. I move that we defer
approval of this proposed second reading for a minimum of two weeks and that need
well I guess we're not going to be able to talk to the FEMA
seeing as how we don't have anything else on the table I guess we put it up
for a vote I'll second I'll second >> I don't want I I don't want this to fail
and be required to come back for a first reading again in the event that we're
required to still do it >> you can make a motion just for the
second reading. >> Can we put the second reading off to a
time to be determined
» I'm aware of >> so people can get their permits going. I
mean look the we talk about we're going to help people get going. We're going to
make them we can make it faster. I guess I mean how many times have I got people
yelling at me saying you got too many rules. You're slowing me down. Let's un
slow them down. Let's make this thing work.
» Well, I'm prepared. I'm prepared to move at each meeting to approve these
variances as they come up until we get this cleared up. And we've got two
rebuild people sitting right here who are cheering on. Let's not make these
changes. So, I I'm not hearing any outcry.
» And I was prepared to vote on what it was when he came in here, which was
speeding up the process, expediting and streamlining, but it changed. and it's
not responsible of me to just kind of vote on something I don't understand
fully, but I don't want to delay. So, >> well, the the vote has failed unless
somebody I I don't think somebody can even make the same motion again.
» So, is there another motion somebody would like to make or do we just move on
to the next? >> You could motion could be you could just
adopt this. You could move the second reading. It only needs three votes. If
you do that, then it comes to effect 30 days from now. So you could take option
if it's action one would be an option or you could move to continue the item
report back. >> I'll move I move to bring this back in
30 days or whatever the closest to 30 days is and that in the interim we bring
forward expeditiously any variance request that's currently on the table
that needs to be approved and hold the hearing to get the variance approved if
that's appropriate thing to do. Is there a second for that?
And if we get more in the interim, we bring them back, too. If more if more
houses show up, >> yes, until such time as we get this
ironed out. Hopefully, we can get it ironed out sooner than later.
» Mayor Silverstein, in your motion, are you providing any specific direction to
staff regarding working with FEMA or is this solely to continue this item for
approximately 30 days and begin scheduling variance hearings? work with
FEMA as soon as they are capable of being contacted to get their um input on
a simple amendment that that moves the administrative authority to the um
administrator and not at the city council level.
» Trevor, what was the idea you had about that getting a three-person vote? What
is that? >> If you if you just um if you adopt on
second reading the ordinance that was introduced on first reading at the last
at the last meeting, um it will come into effect 30 days from today. So, if
we vote to approve the second reading tonight, we only need three votes to do
that. >> That's correct.
» I'd like to make a motion to take a shot at that.
» Second.
» Okay, we're going to have a roll. I'm just going to make one comment before we
have the roll call, which is I I think this need for speed is acting
counterproductively right now, and um people may regret this decision when it
backfires on them down the line. All right, roll call.
» Hold on one second. Let's make sure we've got the instructions to the staff
to contact FEMA in that motion. >> All right.
» And and and I'll we did the same thing with the MMC amendments, which could
have been far more robust in limiting in making things more narrow, but we we
sped up the ones that we did and we did them and then we never came back to
them. We we moved fast with the coastal commission when we maybe could have done
different more things there. We pushed the governor to do certain limited
things without having discussion among ourselves as to whether there were more
things that we that would be beneficial to our residents. This is all being done
ad hoc and um and too fast notwithstanding the fact that it needs
to be done quickly. There's a difference between what what's that saying that
John Mazes >> Oh yeah, John Wooden
» from John Wooden. What is that? >> Be fast but careful. Something like
that. >> Something like that. You'll break some
shells. But isn't there a rebuild ad hoc that you guys could be exploring this
more a little bit? I mean, I was ready to vote on what it was, but new light,
new information came to light. So, we can take the vote and you guys can
explore it some more. The city will call FEMA
» and we'll get these guys permitted. >> If we're going to have three, if we're
going to have three votes to amend this in a minute and it's just going to
become effective in a couple weeks. >> Can I say something? And we can always
have an opportunity if we don't think it's working. There's problems with it.
We can go back and change it. I mean, there's nothing we're doing that is
written in cement. It is. And I I understand, Bruce, you'd like to make it
clean as a whistle out the door. We're not going to get that done. So, let's
get something done. Go back. If we have problems with it, we can address those
problems. And at the same time, we're letting people get their houses built.
By the way, that's coach should also be the uh perfect is the enemy of the good.
» Well, and I think that we also need to remember we have a professional staff.
They've been working on this. This is what we pay them to do to be engineers,
to be the professionals that are working with the other agencies and things like
that to bring us forth the information. And they have been working on this for
weeks if not months. Um, and this is supposed to be benefiting our property
owners to get them rebuilt. >> Trevor, were you involved in the
conversations? >> The drafting of this? No.
» Yeah. Did What lawyer was involved in these conversations? Any
» Rob? >> Rob is a lawyer, isn't he?
» Okay. Not a practicing lawyer, but he but he's but he went to law school.
Okay. Roll call. >> Mayor Promirine.
» Yes. Council member Rigggins, >> yes.
» Council member Conrad, >> Epstein. Council member Stewart,
» yes. >> Mayor Silverstein,
» no. >> Motion carries.
» Okay, it's 10:54. Because it's after 10:30, we cannot do new business without
a four fifths vote. We have an important but lengthy, I suspect, lengthy item
left on the agenda, which is the afteraction report. Who has an appetite
for moving that forward tonight? I don't I've seen enough.
» I have uh an hour short with daylight savings time.
» So, it sounds like there's no motion to move forward. In that case, um we're
adjourned. >> All right.