>> thank you, we will now convene
into open session and I will turn the
floor over to our assistant city
attorney for the announcement.
>> thank you, madam mayor pro tem, the
city council met in closed session,
discussed the item on the closed
session agenda and took no reportable
action.
>> thank you.
this meeting is adjourned.
>> that was funny.
>> it's been a while since I've been
in a time out.
welcome to the city council regular
meeting for august 18, 2026.
we're going to start off with the
pledge of allegiance, just follow
mayor pro tem.
>> ready, begin.
>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of
the united states of america and to
the republic for which it stands one
nation under god, indivisible, with
liberty and justice for all.
>> thank you.
may we have the roll call?
>> councilmember charelian?
>> here.
>> councilmember howorth?
>> present.
>> councilmember lesser?
>> here.
>> mayor pro tem tarnay?
>> here.
>> mayor franklin?
>> here.
so, we move to item d, the
ceremonial calendar which is a
presentation of a certificate of
recognition to manhattan beach police,
we'll bring down chief johnson.
>> this is officer david gibbons, he's
a longstanding member of our police
department and this year as he has for
the 12 years, he received the
award for making 70 dui arrests,
this is david's 12 years in a row,
it's 25 arrests or more in a calendar
year that are made for dui and david'
done that for a cozen -- dozen years
which is really impressive.
david does that work because he take
it seriously.
this year we were able to go with him
again to be recognized for his 70
arrests in calendar year 2025.
david, did you want to take a moment
why it's important to you and why you
continue to prioritize dui arrests.
>> well, first of all, thank you for
having me, and I happen to come across
a lot of them.
it's not the easiest arrest to the
make, there's a lot of paperwork, a
lot of court time for dui arrests but
it's one of the arrests has you don't
really see in true fashion, the
difference that you make, but in the
long run, I think the number of lives
you save from making a dui arrest is
not really countable or paper but it
makes a difference and something I
enjoy doing.
>> also give david a round of
applause, congratulations.
[applause].
david, as you know, it means a lot to
the department and this community, the
work you continue to do with impaired
drivers and you're also a drug
recognition expert so he's able to
mentor and help other officers with
their arrests as well.
we're proud of you and wrathful for
you and your work and we thank you.
I'll turn it over to the mayor.
>> thank you, can we have your team
down here and join us in the photos,
it would be the safest place in
manhattan beach.
>> he has to hold the certificate.
>> we'll get to it.
>> yeah, these moe of the guys that
work graveyard with me, they're a lot
that stop the drunk drivers and call
me over to make the arrest, they're an
integral part of it, we have officer
rellis, officer yeps, officer acuna,
officer sanchez and officer white.
>> we are pleased to present you with
a certificate of recognition for you
and all your team has done to keep
manhattan beach safe.
we'll get each of you the pins but
there's an american 250 commemoration
pin, we'll get one for each one, and
let's just remind our residents that
no good things happen after midnight.
and let's give them a big round of
applause since we owe them so much.
[applause].
>> thank you.
>> okay.
at this time, I would like to recognize
and honor all active duty military
and veterans in the audience, whether
you are a national guard a reservist
or on active duty, please stand and be
recognized.
[applause].
>> and then there's a reminder, we're
not going to be meeting in the middle
of september, so I wanted to put in
this reminder of attending the special
memorial 9/11 memorial ceremony, it's
poignant because it's 25 years since
this tragic event happened and I think
like many event within our lives, we
remember where we barer and we
remember the anxieties and we're
thinking so much about our families
but also about other families of the
firefighters and the police.
the most poignant thing to me was
seeing all the people coming down the
staircase and our brave star, so that was very
poignant, they run, the firefighters and
police were going up to
danger, this is going to be held from
9-10 a.m. At the southwest corner of
15th street and valley drive and I
hope you can make it, so thank you.
we'll move on to -- so item e, approval
of agenda and waiver of full reading
of ordinances.
so we have a motion to accept by
councilmember howorth and seconded by
mayor pro tem tarnay.
call for the vote.
>> motion passes 5-0.
>> okay.
city council and community
organization announcements of upcoming
events, one minute per person.
>> hello, honorable city
councilmembers, I'm john robert from
the roundhouse aquarium, I know most
of you already, we're sponsoring a
free public lecture by david bader,
the title of the talk is hope on
horizon, protecting marine mammal in a
changing world.
the talk will be wednesday september
2, 2026 from 6-7 p.m. In the manhattan
beach public library next door.
it should be a very interesting talk,
david will describe the challenges
that are accessing the local marine
mammals and how the marine mammal care
center is addressing those channel.
this is timely because we're
transitioning into an el nino event
that is threatening to be strong and
this will have profound effects on the
local marine life and the marine
mammals so it should be a very
interesting talk and I look forward
to it myself, it's wednesday september
2 from 6-7 p.m. In the library just
next door.
>> thank you.
>> good evening, honorable mayor,
mayor pro tem and city councilmembers,
I'm janet jones and I'm the founder
and director of the single mom
project which was home grown here in
manhattan beach.
we provide thousand dollar grants to
low income, hardworking moms in
hawthorne, lawn dale, inglewood,
compton, watts to help them get on
steadier financial if the footing and
I'm thrilled to announce that tuesday
september 8 will be single mom
project day here in manhattan beach.
we've had astounding support from the
business community, we ever had a
couple dozen restaurants and stores
that have signed in to give a portion
of their proceeds that day, whatever
they want to give, to the single mom
project.
we want the city to come out and
support families that live just 10-12
minutes away who could use our support
and need our support and we are just
thrilled with the response the city
has given so far, so thank you.
>> thank you.
>> honorable mayor, pro tem, city
councilmembers, coach bobby, wm,
recycling and/organics outreach
and education.
this is my favorite time of the year,
it's back to school, my wife's a
teacher so she gets outs of my house,
we go to hand out lunchboxes to
all the kindergartners, my
favorite thing is those faces light up
when we get to see them, two of the
greenest schools, pacific and
grandview did it sunday morning, I
didn't get a lot of pictures of the
faces because I can't post those on
social media.
we got three more elementary schools
to go, that's all I got.
wishing you all god's blessings.
>> thank you.
>> russ lesser representing the
manhattan 10k run on october 3rd this
year, the 49th annual running will be
done and if you're interested in
participate, I suggest you go to
mv10k.com soon because it's going to
sell out in about two weeks.
>> so run over and register.
anybody else in council chambers?
>> you want to go to zoom first.
>> yeah, let's do zoom first and then
councilmembers.
>> no requests on zoom.
>> no one?
okay, sorry.
>> thank you, mr. Mayor, I just -- I
was going to take this opportunity
during community announcements to
remind us that the manhattan beach
public schools go back to school
tomorrow, so everybody be aware,
there's going to be a lot of kids
walk, a lot of parents driving and
keep your eyes open.
I think when we encourage these kids
to walk to school which is great but
there will be a lot of those kids out
there and some of them may not look
both ways even though she should, so
be careful when you're driving
tomorrow and for the rest of the year,
thank you.
>> wonderful, anybody else?
no, seeing none, we'll move on to g,
public comments.
you have three minutes per person and
just a reminder, if you speak in this
segment on an item that's on the
agenda, you cannot speak when that
item comes up
>> I waited for the three minutes
because I have some compliments I
would like to give and don't want to
get cut short on compliments.
friday, I was walking home from doing
some work on our apartment building on
15th street and my wife and I live at
14th and strand and in the alley a at
14th and ocean, there's about a four
to five inch gusher of raw sewage
coming up will you the sewer main, now
that's not anything any resident wants
to see and particularly when you're a
the end of the line as low it gets to
the city, the strand, you're not
excited about a blockage.
I called our after hours number, the
545-5466, they got a hold of the
public works emergency people.
they were out there in almost the
blink of an eye even though one of the
workers came from downey, pleasant,
efficient, got everything taken care
of and 100 years a I was on what was
called the public works commission
here before I came on to council and I
think public works is one of those
assets we have in this community that
we sometimes forget.
the sewer mains are below the ground,
the water mains are, everything's
supposed to go right, you turn on
the faucet, you get clean water,
you flush, the bad things go away, but
we have such a wonderful public works
department and I want to give them a
shout-out and things like the
schedule rotational slurry sealing, it's
uncomfortable when you can't driver
down your street but that's better than
having the street repaved and it goes
on and on and on.
the replenishment of the dog bags on
the strand, the poop pick-up bags,
routinely, you don't think anything
about it but yet it happens and so
those are kind of the unseen warriors
in you will, graffiti removal, I'm a
demon calling on graffiti and
tagging removal and again our public
works department is out there almost
by the time I hang up and they do a
good job and get more lotions and
potions on that truck and takes off of
various services and so on and like I
say, so often people come down and
have a little complaint, I have been
known to do that, just a little
compliment this evening, have a good
evening.
>> thank you very much, and home in
your homes, we know you have a crank
telephone in your place, but for
anybody who wants to use an app, we
have a great app called reach
manhattan beach and you can also do --
you can report the same things that the
esteemed mr. Holmes just spoke about
on the app and they will get there in
a jiffy as well, thank you for
recognizing them, I appreciate it.
>> members of city council, first I
want to echo and I see that happen as
well, I have called for graffiti and
it has been taken care of.
I want you to report semi-annual on
the status of our city's 774 unit rhna
obligation as a regularly scheduled
business topic, not as a -- but
specifically to create a simple rhna
dashboard as the example I attached in
what I sent in earlier so it can be
discussed at the council level and be
shared with the residents for
transparency.
our concern is not whether manhattan
beach should meet its legal housing
obligation, it should, my concern is
that we manage those obligations
strategically to minimize unnecessary
development impacts on our community.
of our 774 units, 487 or 63% are
designated very low or low income, yet
many proposed projects contain
approximately 20% lower income units
and 80% market rate units
substantially more than 774 total
units could be required the to
produce the affordable housing called
for by rhna.
as rod sites are developed, the city
must maintain sufficient remaining
capacity to accommodate its unmet
arena.
if development consumes sites without
producing the income categories
anticipate, the city could potentially
be required to identify or rezone
additional sites.
in my e-mail exchange with adam
finestone this past week en, I
understand much of this information is
tracked by staff for state required
annual reporters no net loss
monitoring, so this should largely
involve presenting existing
information in a more useful and
transparent format.
I ask council to direct staff to
evaluate legally valuable policy
incentives that could increase the
percentage of low, very low to
moderate income units produced by
future projects, potentially reducing
overall build out and the risk that
additional sites will be required.
this could include hiring a third
party consultant with expertise in
this a area.
I believe understanding this now
before additional rod sites are
developed is important to protecting
our community while meeting our state
housing obligations.
thank you.
>> great, thank you.
>> good evening, mayor franklin and
city council, I'm kelly stroman, the
executive director for downtown
manhattan beach business and
professional association.
I'm here tonight to ask you to direct
staff to continue to find a way to
modernize manhattan beach's business
license tax program.
and to keep striving for a formula
that is equitable, sustainable and
revenue neutral to the city.
we recognize this is complicated.
we recognize the tremendous amount of
time, analysis and thoughtful work our
city staff, all of you and many groups
and council have already invested.
for that, we are very grateful.
that work has value and it should not
end simply because the most recent
proposal did not move forward.
the business landscape has changed
drastically over the past 50
years, we have solo entrepreneurs
generating 10 thousand dollars in
gross receipts and then we have mega
businesses in manhattan beach
generating 100 million in gross
receipts.
an equitable tax structure should and
can have parity the across the entire
spectrum.
we are not asking the city to collect
less revenue, we're asking for a
better, more equable way to distribute
the responsible for generating that
revenue.
modernization is accomplished
perfectly on the first attempt, apples
newton didn't have success, apple didn't
decide the future wasn't mobile,
imagine that.
they learned, evolved and created
something exponentially better.
that is what progress looks like, you
listen, you learn, you create, you
explore.
and then you evolve.
since the formula, we considered
over the last six to nine months
wasn't the right one, let's not
abandon the objective, let's improve
the formula.
the work has given us valuable
information, we don't need to go
back to square one and we shouldn't
simply return indefinitely to a
decades old system we already
recognize needs modernization, keep
modeling, keep refining and keep
asking the difficult question.
let's find the point where equity for
our businesses and revenue neutrality
for our city intersect.
tonight our request on behalf of the
association is simple, please, direct
staff to continue this work until we
find the best possible formula.
one that is revenue neutral to the
city, equitable to our business
community and creates meaningful party
across every level of gross receipts.
the first answer doesn't have to be
the perfect answer but an imperfect
first attempt which we all experienced
should never be the reason we stop
looking for a better one.
thank you.
>> thank you, kelly.
>> I'm back, russ lesser, and I know
representing the manhattan beach 10k
run and I know you're going to
discuss legacy events later but I'm
too old to stay up late so I'm going
to speak now.
I want to talk about the history of
the race, back in 78, I was a newly
elected city councilman and running
was becoming popular and a bunch of
friends said we should have a race
in town and I went to the recreation
department and said they didn't have
the staff to do it.
I met with the city council and said
we have a bunch of volunteers to put
on this race but we need a little
public works support and we need
police and paramedics on race day and
we don't have money because we don't
want to get a sponsor because sponsors
want to put ads on your shirts and we
don't want ads on our shirts so the
city council agreed to have a contract
with us to provide these services at
mo cost and it's worked out quite well.
this is our 49th annual race, we've
been picked as one of the top 100 race
in the country, the only one to our
knowledge that does not have a sponsor
because of the ad thing and we don't
have any paid staff, it has a high
participation of local residents,
higher than just about any race in the
top 100, because we're all volunteers,
we've been able donate almost 900
thousand dollars back to the community
to build exercise equipment such as in
polliwog park in manhattan heights, we
built the tot lot at live oak park and
the exercise facility on strand and we
purchased exercise equipment for the
police and fire department and donated
hundreds of thousands of dollars to
the schools with their exercise
equipment and their programs and
donated a quarter of a million dollars
to students to give them scholarships
to graduate when they graduate from
mira costa.
we're asking let's keep that 49 year
contract in sxefkt we'll continue
exactly how we've done for hopefully
another 50 years.
>> I got a quick question for russ,
how many runners in 1978?
>> about 2500, it was incredible, it
was all done manually back then, you
had to pull and put them on a
spindle and put them on the boards, we
had awards for every age group,
mother, father, mother, daughter,
mother, son, daughter and you know, it
was a nightmare, now it's a piece of
cake.
we had to have men chutes and women
chutes and we'd fill one up, the first
year was a disaster because we ran
around the pier and it got so backed
up, half way around the pier, you
know, before and we were bringing
people in, we didn't know what we were
doing, we were rookies, but we changed
it.
if you got time for one quick story,
we had to get the permission
from the county every year to run
around the pier and there was an
accident once where somebody was
running under the pier and a piece of
concrete fell off and hurt them.
so I call the county to get permission
and they said how many people and I
said 4 thousand, and they said the
pier can't hold 4 thousand people, you
can't have a permit.
we have rachel judson and michael wise
berg, I was the chairman for the first
25, then rachel took over for about 15
and now michael's doing a fantastic
job.
next year will be our 50th anniversary.
there's 27 of us that have run all 48,
we're called the pier back which
stands for participated in every race.
our goal is to make it to 50, so thank
you.
>> thank you, I appreciate it.
>> thank you and your team.
okay.
any other public comments?
one per -- how about --
>> yes, I have collin user 1.
>> hi, my name is gourd and I want to
talk a about an issue of a pricing
concern here in manhattan beach,
specially the transsexual general
abasing it's ruined the quality of
life of this city, it's bringing crime
and drugs and graffiti to this city,
they beat all women in sports, they
beat all women in county jail and
state prisons and they beat our women
in the bathroom and I'm sick and tired
of these trans demanding free welfare
benefits and free housing.
they are destroying manhattan beach
and the cops need to start arresting
these people.
these people are masturbating on the
beach and we need to stop --
>> thank you, sir.
anybody else online?
>> no further requests on zoom.
>> okay, great.
we'll move --
>> I apologize, I'm trying to get my
button pushed here.
no, again, I wanted to take an
opportunity to compliment all the
staff, public safety, public works,
everyone involved, parks and rec,
starting last thursday, we had tens of
thousands of visitors and residents, a
lot of people that really enjoyed
volleyball and we had this footprint
in town that's pretty incredible, I
saw some drone footage, staff knocked
it out of the park, I'm talking about
the abp manhattan beach open and way
to go, hat's off to the staff for
pulling that off.
and as you're exiting the event,
they're strategically bringing it down
so it's a minimal impact to everyone
around, so congratulations, every year
it keeps getting better and better and
I don't know how you keep setting the
bar that high but you continue to
achieve it, so thank you for keeping
us safe and all the above.
>> great.
anybody else?
no?
okay, so we'll close public comments
and we'll go on to h, the consent
calendar.
going for a motion to approve.
we have a motion to approve from
councilmember lesser and seconded by
mayor pro tem tarnay.
call the for the vote, please.
>> motion passes 5-0.
>> alright, thank you.
moving on to item j, public hearings,
so number 13, consideration of a
resolutions regarding renewal of north
manhattan beach business improvement
district for fiscal year 2026-2027 and
it looks like we have our finance
director.
>> thank you, good evening, mayor,
members of the city council, tonight
we are pleased to present for your
consideration the renewal of the north
manhattan beach business
improvement district for fiscal
year 26-27.
the north manhattan beach business
improvement district was
established in 2004 in accordance with
the parking and business improvement
area law of 1989.
this state law also requires an annual
renewal process and the appointment of
an advisory board by the city council.
so on july 7, the bid advisory board
met to review a proposed activity plan
and budget for the fiscal year and
they voted affirmatively to recommend
the city council approve the items
before you tonight.
the city council then initiated the
annual renewal process on july 21 with
the approval of a resolution of
intention to renew and levy the
assessments which again remain
unchanged this year.
the north manhattan bid is funded
through an 80% surcharge on the annual
business license tax up to a maximum
of $500 per business.
the next step is to hold a public
hearing tonight to accept testimony
for or against the proposed
assessments, approval is based
on whether there is a weighted
majority protest by businesses that
pay 50% or more of the total
assessment.
all legal requirements for tonight's
public hearing have been met including
mailing copies of the resolution of
intention to all businesses and a
notice was published in the beach
reporter.
I wanted to note in 2025, the north
manhattan beach business and
professional association was
established as a non-profit
corporation and the management of the
bid activities was transitioned to the
newly formed association, so with the
transition of activities to the
association last year, the bid
advisory board is expected to meet
less frequently than in prior years
similar to what happens with the doub
town bid.
and so I wanted to note too that the
north bid currently has bylaws that
require an election process to
nominate board members which are then
appointed by the city council as
required by state law.
and the last election was held in
december of 2024 and the members were
elected to a two year term ending this
coming december in 2026.
so as noted in the staff report,
staff's currently exploring
alternative advisory board nomination
processes that may be more efficient
and cost effective than a an elections
process so we're doing that research
and then we'll be holding a bid
advisory board meeting in the coming
months to discuss potential revisions
to the governing document which is we
would then bring back to the city
council for approval at a future
meeting.
so, I just wanted to note that.
so tonight the business improvement
district associated assessments and
collaboration with the association
would continue to remain in place for
the upcoming fiscal year with the
following actions and consideration by
the city council tonight, so one is to
hold the public hearing to receive
testimony and assuming insufficient
protests are received, resolution
number 26-0095 must be adopted to
authorize the collection of
assessments, two, with the adoption of
resolution 26-0096, the city manager
will be thorpe to enter into the
agreement with the north man bath
beach business and professional
association for the services outlined
in the attached activity plan and
budget and three, with the
appropriation of 90 thousand dollars
from the parking fund, the city
will disburse a accumulated bid funds
to the association for the execution
of the services outlined in the
activity plan and budget.
and after accounting for the estimated
assessments and interest earnings in
the upcoming year, this would leave
approximately 279 thousand dollars in
the reserve funds that we hold for the
bid.
so staff is here to answer any
questioners as well as I see the
association president and jill lamkin
with the chamber of commerce who's
also supporting the association and
bid.
so I'm sure they'd be happy to answer
any questions as well.
if none, we would recommend opening
the public hearing at this time.
>> okay, great.
councilmembers, questions?
okay, councilmember charelian?
>> thank you, mayor, thank you for the
presentation, libby.
quick question on the 278 thousand
dollars you mentioned in the reserves,
for the bid to draw down on those
funds, can you walk me through the
process or walk us through the process
of how -- because they get a certain
budget and then those are in the
reserves so if they want to take from
the reserves, what's the process?
>> so, due to some like timing changes
of budget development this year and
the formation of the association, the
adopted budget for fiscal year 26-27,
we missed including an appropriation
for the bid activities this year, so
that's why we are needing to the
appropriate the full 90 thousand which
is the amount requested by the
association, so that's not in addition
to anything that was already in the
budget since we -- due to a timing
issue, we missed it this year.
with the city council's approval
tonight, hen we would be disbursing 90
thousand dollars from the reserve.
the bid traditionally received 25
thousand dollars this year, but it's
been creeping up and this year we're
just under 30 thousand dollars, so
they're right around that range and
they'll be spending down some of those
funds in this the next year.
>> anybody else?
no?
so, we'll go to public comments.
anybody in the chamber?
don't rush down.
okay.
and how about online?
>> no requests on zoom.
>> no requests on zoom, so we'll close
public comments.
anybody wish to start off the
conversation?
comments or --
>> it's pretty straight forward.
>> I would thank the business members
for their engagement and their
involvement with the north end and
what you have created, I'm the
alternate member of the bid, I have
not attended any meetings in my new
role which is an old role I previously
served in and I'm so grateful for what
for the work that you have been doing
for our community.
>> thank you, so did you want to speak?
>> no, I think that's left over, I
apologize.
>> so, we -- if there's no more
comments and we have a motion to
accept by councilmember charelian and
that's seconded by councilmember
howorth.
call if for the vote.
we have to read the motion.
>> thank you, your honor.
so, my motion is to adopt resolution
number 26-0095 and 26-0096 and
appropriate funds and authorize the
disbursement of the reserved bid
funds.
>> great.
and call for the vote, please.
>> motion passes 5-0.
>> great, thank you, all.
so we move on to general business.
item k, item number 14, consideration
of a resolution approving an exception
to the 180 day wait period for calpers
retired annuitant and we have human
resources director.
>> thank you, mayor, I'm lisa jenkins,
the city's human resorts director and
the item before council this evening
is approval of a resolution to make an
exception for the 180 day wait period
that's normally required for a calpers
agency to hire an individual who has
retired from a calpers agency.
and calpers for those who are not
particular is the california public
employees' retirement system.
the city of manhattan beach and many
other public agencies within the state
are members of calpers.
calpers has various roles governing
the appointment of retirees and the
ways in which that they can work for
calpers agencies.
government code 21224 allows for an
appointment of a retired annuitant to
an extra help assignment in a limited
duration capacity provided it meets
all of the government code requirements
and calpers criteria, in
particular, the appointment needs to
be an extra help limited duration
assignment to help clear backlog, work
on a special project or perform work
in excess of what existing staff can
do.
and additionally a retired annuitant
cannot work more than 960 hours in a
a fiscal year and there's typically a
180 day wait period following
someone's retirement unless the
governing body approves an exception
to this timeframe in accordance with
government code 7522.56.
mr. Douglas atkinson is the retiree
that has been identified to fill a
critical need for the community
development department.
he retired from his position of senior
building inspector in june of this
year.
the city opened up a recruitment to
fill that position in may so prior to
his retirement date.
following the recruitment and
selection process, an internal
candidate was appointed to the senior
building inspector position which is
great for career and professional
development within the city, however,
that means that there was a vacancy
that remained at the building
inspector level.
during the same time period, a second
building inspector submitted their
resignation, so that resulted in two
vacancies at building inspector, the
full complement is typically four
building inspectors so we're 50% down
right now.
additionally the community development
department has established a service
delivery expectation of doing next
day building inspections in most cases.
this is not something that's required
by the municipal code but it is something
that differentiates the service that
we provide to the construction
community to ensure that building
inspections move forward timely.
so, in the absence that these two
vacancies have created, other staff
members including the city's business
official have had to step in to
conduct these building inspections to
ensure that next day turn-around time.
and this takes them away from other
critical duties and is not sustainable.
fortunately wringing with calpers and
legal counsel, we've identified the
the solution of being able to appoint
our recent retiree to assist with
these next day building inspections.
and mr. Atkinson is able to step in
immediately due to his years of
experience working in this capacity
for the city of manhattan beach.
the expenditures associated with this
limited duration position would
otherwise be utilized for those full
time salaries and benefits.
so, during the recruitment process for
building inspector which is currently
open, salary savings will be utilized
to fund this extra help position.
the position is not a net new
expenditure but is a creative way to
fill in the gaps and ensure service
delivery standards are met for a short
duration of time.
and in accordance with calpers
regulations, the hourly rate paid to
mr. Atkinson of $62.50 per hour is
within the salary range for senior
building inspector.
calpers requires that an appointment
document is approved along with the
resolution and the personnel
action form fulfills this requirement
as mr. Atkinson was a former employee
of the city, salary generated on the
personal action form was his prior
salary and that was before the july
cola that applied to those, salary
ranges and increases the salary step.
the new salary will be populated once
the action is finalized and that's
pending city council approval tonight.
the calpers restriction, mr. Atkinson
will not be eligible for any other
benefit or exhumation.
the limited duration appointment will
end after permanent building
inspectors are hired and on boarded
and will end no later than december
31st of this year.
staff recommends that the city council
approve the resolution for an 180 day
wait period exception under government
code sections 7522.56 and 21224.
and with that, I'm happy to answer any
questions that council has.
>> we have councilmember howorth, any
questions?
>> this building inspector, interim
building inspector.
>> extra help position.
>> will -- we'll still be done 50%
>> we currently have two the vacancies
in our current complement of full time
staffing.
>> so, this is an effort to try to
keep the inspects and moving along
which helps with both residential and
commercial, correct?
>> that's correct.
>> do we have a problem in hiring --
is there an issue with the salary?
are we -- is our salary range lower
than other cities in this regard?
>> so, that's a great question and I
do know that across cities, building
inspector is a very difficult position
to hire.
we do know that one of our recent
resignations was due to the incumbent
being able to secure a higher salary
elsewhere, so that is potentially a
factor in being able to recruit
qualified building inspectors.
also we work with various contract
agencies to also try to fill in the
apses when we have vacancies.
these other entities are having a
difficult time with building
inspectors, so it is a difficult to
fill position.
>> and I would imagine, I mean, we --
every city has its own unique codes
and requirements and specifications
and we must have a series of
interesting situations that require a
lot of attention.
so, that's interesting.
I would want us to be sure that we are
offering a commensurate salary.
I don't know how other people feel
about that, but if that's a problem,
we don't want to be down 50% with all
the building going on in this
community.
>> one thing I will add on that note,
we have the recruitment currently
open, I believe it closes later this
month and we do have a number of
applicants, so we hope to be able to
fill the vacant positions from that
recruitment process.
if there is any challenges in being
able to identify qualified individual,
we will certainly be working
collaboratively with the community
development department to determine if
if any additional steps need to be
taken.
>> great, thank you.
>> so, I would like to ask a question,
you know, since we're in the belly of
the beast, calpers, why do we have to
go through this process of passing
this amendment and then, you know,
here -- and look at that 180 days, if
you can -- why is an annuitant have to
wait for 180 days, I understand
there's federal law implications as
well.
>> that's a great question.
the simple answer is calpers putting
parameters around appointing retired
annuitants because if it's a regular
staff position, they would prefer to
have an individual in that position
who's a member of the calpers system
so there's contributions being made on
that person's behalf, so appointments
that the city makes of retired
annuitants, there's no contribution to
calpers, the individuals are already
receiving their pension from calpers,
so calpers puts these guardrails
around it because they don't want
cities to have retirees filling in for
regular staff positions.
and the council will recall, we do
also take to council appointments
under the other government code which
is 21221h, that's for interim
positions, those are typically at the
department director level.
for each of these types appointments,
calpers through the california
government code has requirements for
the types of appointments that can be
made.
in this case in particular, I believe
the 180 day period is to
prevent retiring and filling right
back into their position or in another
agency in a similar capacity.
in this instance, calpers has advised
us this is an appropriate pathway in
our limitations right now to guarantee
the next day inspections which is
something we consider critical in this
community for our economic success and
for our construction community.
>> okay, so I asked there a copy of
the code and I see you're following
the template here and so the only
thing that concerns me is that the
very last sentence accordingly, the
critical need for mr. Atkinson's
appointment will known later than
december 31, 2026 and his appointment
will end at the same time, so what if
we don't find a full time person
because we've already been two to
three months and this is only
extending it for another three to
four, the same economic conditions and
things like that.
>> another great question, and we did
attempt on our first draft to leave
that a little more open ended so that
we would have that flexibility.
we asked calpers to review the
resolution and they advised that we
needed to ensure that it was limited
duration.
we do have other mechanisms to
potentially supplement city staff,
there's an individual who is
identified through a contract agency
who is available after october, so we
are continuing to look for other
resources to supplement city staffing
especially in the event if we're
not able to fill the permanent staff.
>> okay , great, thank you.
and mayor pro tem tarnay?
>> thank you, mr. Mayor, I
just have a
question to the mayor's question,
after the december 31 deadline, is
there a potential that we can extend
or renew, is that a possibility?
>> I think we would have to look at
that situation at the time to ensure
that it meets the calpers requirements.
it could be a different set of
circumstances that necessitates a
retired annuitant hire and we do --
the reason council is seeing this item
is because of the 180 day issue.
typically when we identify a compliant
need for special project or extra help
support, the city is able to complete
that process without approval from the
city council, so, one other idea
that's come up internally is
determining if there's other retirees
available for special projects or big
community development projects that
occur or identifying individuals who
have retired from a different
retirement system in which case the
calpers restrictions don't apply, so I
understand the question and the
concern and we'll have to re-evaluate
that at the time to figure out where
we're at and what resources we can
bring in, in compliance with all the
standards.
>> okay, thank you, and I echo
councilmember howorth's concern with
just our inability to fill very
critical roles.
for building inspectors, do we
typically use contractors to fill
those roles?
I understand, you know, our codes are
in our local building codes are very
complicated and that we'd want
somebody who's experienced in our
local codes to fill these positions.
is this something we typically do?
>> we do and we have existing
contracts that have the possibility
for bringing on building inspectors.
what our community development
department is finding, even these
contract agencies are having trouble
recruiting qualified building
inspectors, right now when we were
evaluating options for bringing in
extra help, the contract agency didn't
have anyone available and the
individual that I mentioned who's
available after october is a
resource that the community
development department is planning to
bring on board to also supplement the
staffing.
>> alright, thank you.
>> councilmember charelian?
>> thank you, mayor, so the cooling
off rule, the 180 day requirement,
that's a state law government code,
but there is an exception to that
government code that you're following
right now to get it exercised.
>> correct.
>> and then I guess the only other
comment or comment/question I would
have, did we look at ut putting not to
exceed 960 hours instead of a sunset
date in december and just utilize the
960, was that thought about or can you
elaborate on that?
>> sure, so the parameters for the
21224 appointments are really related
to the reason that the person is
filling in.
calpers the does not want things to be
open ended because for the 960, it's
per fiscal year.
we've had situations for other
resolutions where if you just put in
960 and don't specify an end date, it
can be viewed as extending it year
after year after year.
for this one, for the 180 day wait
period, they preferred an end date.
>> okay.
>> and just a quick question about the
resolution we pass today, is calpers,
does it need approval by calpers
because you have already talked with
them?
>> we sent the resolution to them and
with the change of adding the end
date, they have approved the
resolution.
>> okay.
>> and we've also had the resolution
reviewed by legal counsel so pending
city council's approval, we should be
good to go.
>> great, when mr. Atkinson comes
back, we'd be up to three out of four
will be our staffing for inspectors?
>> well, mr. Atkinson is filling in on
an as needed basis to ensure we're
meeting that standard for next day
building inspections, he won't be
working 40 hours per week, he'll be
working as needed so we're still
slivering to fill in those two vacant
positions with full time employees.
>> I'm just trying to think what do we
say to developers who are waiting for
these inspections?
>> yeah, and as I mentioned, I think
that city staff has been working
diligently and outside their normal
scope to ensure that those standards
are met.
I'm not aware there has been a
delay thus far and this resolution and
bringing mr. Atkinson on board is to
ensure that that continues without
having detrimental impact on existing
city staff.
>> okay, great, thank you.
alright, so if there's not anymore
questions from council, I'll open it
up for public comment.
>> stefan kampe once again.
doug is an excellent inspector, he was
easy to work with, very knowledgeable,
very efficient so I hope you guys take
this opportunity to reemploy him in
this role because the city needs it
and I think very highly of doug.
>> great, thank you.
anybody else in chambers?
>> no requests on zoom.
>> we'll close public comments.
council, any discussion, we do have
a motion to accept by councilmember
howorth and seconded by mayor pro tem
tarnay.
>> thank you, mr. Mayor, I wanted to
comment that, yeah, obviously we need
to do this and this is the proper
procedure and there's all kinds of
rules with callers and as
councilmember charelian mentioned,
state law, etc., and I think that if
we approve this, I know that ryan
heise, he's probably out doing an
inspection now.
masa is ready to do inspections our
staff, you undersold how much that
staff has been going above and beyond
and outside the scope of their duties
to make sure these inspections happen
and I want everybody both in the
business community and residential
community to hear that and understand
that, so thank you.
>> would you do the honors of reading
the --
>> yes, I made a motion, consideration
of a resolution approving an exception
to the 180 day wait period for a
california employees' retirement
system, calpers, retired annuitant
under government code sections 7522.56
and 21224 to fill a critical need for
conducting building inspections in the
community development department.
there's no budget impact.
this is resolution 26-0097.
>> great, thank you, call for the
vote, please.
>> motion passes 5-0.
>> okay.
how's everybody doing?
okay?
>> I could use a quick break, please.
>> there's one item, I could use a
break too.
>> okay, so if we can come back at
7:10, 7:15, what would you like?
>> 7:10.
>> 7:10 is great.
>> thank you, mayor.
( meeting in recess ).
>> item 15, consideration of a
standardized process for evaluating
administrative legacy special event
subsidies.
>> I'm mark leyman, your parks and
recreation director, I'll hand it over
to linda.
>> good evening, honorable
mayor and city councilmembers.
the item includes separate
items, because each requires a
separate policy or funding decision,
I'll be presenting them individually
and pausing after each section for
council questions, discussion and
action before moving on to the next
item.
we'll begin with the proposed
community event subsidy program, also
known as fee waivers, we'll then
pause for council discussion and action
before moving on to the north
manhattan beach holiday stroll road
closure and subsidy and we'll pause
again for council action before moving
on to the holiday subsidy.
my goal is to keep each decision
separate.
so, for some background in 2025, when
the council approved fee waivers for
fiscal years 26-27, you directed staff
to return with criteria used by other
cities to review fee waivers along with
an updated met of reviewing to provide
a more equitable and consistent method
for evaluating event subsidies over
the years, the city's approach to
these subsidies have evolved through a
series of individual council actions.
the special events policy was updated
in 2018.
council approved the highland avenue
closure as a pilot.
each of these decisions addressed a
particular need at that time.
we don't currently have is a
standardized framework for evaluating
these requests.
and the proposed process is intended
to provide that framework.
so, for our current practice currently
the city supports 12 legacy events
through subsidized city services.
as you can see, these include a wide
variety of community events, from
races and school related events to
hometown fair, the holiday
holiday stroll, most
currently we received a 100 subsidy for
city services, three receive a 75%
subsidy.
these subsidy levels have evolved over
many years through individual council
actions rather than through a common
evaluation framework.
so, in addition to the varying subsidy
levels, approvals are based on
estimated costs and those estimates
can vary from the actual cost once an
event takes place.
under our current policy, subsidies
apply to city only.
the third party costs per the special
events policy remain the
responsibility of the event ozer
engineer unless the city council has
specifically approved otherwise.
so, the proposed program has severe
objectives, we want to create a fair
evaluation framework, improver
transparency, ensure subsidies align
ed with the community priorities and
preserve support for valued community
events.
we also want to establish clear
expectations for both the city and
event organizers regarding the level
of city funded services that will be
provided.
this proposal is about consistency,
transparency, applicant wills
understand how their requests are
evaluated, the council will have
better information about the value of
the city's contribution when making
funding decisions.
the proposed process would occur
annually and align with the city's
budget cycle.
organizers would submit sudden subsidy
applications in september.
previous actual costs as a starting
point would be seen.
that timing allows previous subsidies
to be incorporated into departmental
budgets through the normal budget
process.
each request would be evaluated using
five criteria, community benefit, why
is this good for the community, public
accessibility, can the public enjoy it.
organizational eligibility, who's
putting on the event, target audience,
who does it primarily serve, and city
resource requirements, how much does
it cost the city to support.
these criteria consider both the value
and event provides the manhattan beach
community and the level of city
resources required to support it.
the intent is to provide an objective
and consisted tent basis for
evaluating requests while recognizing
that every event is unique.
each application would then be scored
using the evaluation matrix.
the matrix provides staff with an
objective recommendation regarding
the maximum subsidy for which an event
is eligible.
however the scoring matrix is intended
to guide the discussion, no to replace
the city's council policy discretion,
so the city council will continue the
make the final decisions regarding the
level of subsidy awarded.
once a subsidy is approved, the city
would into an agreement with the event
or engineer identifying the specific
services that have been approved and
establishing a not to exceed amount.
this establishes clear expectations
for both city and the organizer, it
also provides a clear benchmark against
which staff can track the actual
services provided and distinguish
between the subsidy council approved
and any additional services requested
by the organizer.
staff will calculate the estimated
value of all requested city services
before council considers each subsidy
request.
those estimates include fully burdened
staff cost, facility rental fees, city
equipment, parking meter impacts,
application fees, permit fees and
other applicable city services.
presenting the full estimated value of
the city's contribution allows the
council to clearly understand the
financial commitment associated with
each subsidy request before making a
decision.
as part of developing the proposed
process, staff looked at how
neighboring cities support community
events.
and just note these numbers that
you're seeing now were updated from
the original presentation that was
sent out but you do have the most
recent version of the presentations
also available to the public.
hermosa beach currently provides fee
waiver grantees of up to $2,500 per
event from a 5 thousand dollar fund
pool.
that fund pool is approved annually by
the city council and varies from year
to year.
those are their smaller ones and it
also provides support through long
term agreements totaling approximately
240 thousand, those are separate
agreements.
the largest one being with the chamber
of commerce to run the fiesta,
the larger events.
redondo beach provides approximately
45 thousand dollars in support for 8
signature events and el segundo
supports 10 events at approximately
100 thousand dollars.
both hermosa and el segundo use
similar criteria to what is being
prosed tonight when evaluating fee
waivers.
each city structures calculates its
support differently.
so these aren't intended to be direct
comparisons but they do provide some
perspective on different ways
cities support community events and
finally looking at manhattan beach, we
currently support 12 events and when
we calculate the city support using
all those items previously
mentioned, in 2025, the value was
approximately 717 thousand dollars.
so, that brings us to the first
decision before council tonight, staff
recommend it is city council approve
the standardized process for
evaluating and administering legacy
special events subsidies and at this
point, I'll stop the presentation,
staff is available to answer questions
regarding the proposed program and
then following council discussion and
action, I'll resume the presentation
with the north manhattan beach holiday
stroll.
>> okay, thank you.
and councilmember lesser?
>> thank you, linda, I wanted to go
back to the last slide and confirm the
amount of city subsidies at present.
it's a pretty large number.
can you show that slide.
the 717 thousand and some change, that
does not include what's also under
consideration that we're about to talk
about that is the additional 10
thousand dollars proposed for the
fireworks as well as the additional 9
thousand that's requested for the
holiday stroll and the north manhattan
beach?
>> this is the amount of -- for all of
the events that occurred in 2025.
>> in 2025, so in other words as
projected for 2026, this number will
be higher?
>> it will be higher.
>> any rough order of the magnitude of
how much?
>> most of the increase will be due to
the mou salary increases, so if
everything's going up 2.5%, you would
add on, the staffing levels are not
expected to change.
>> I appreciate the criteria that's
being presented for council to
consider as it approaches subsidies
going forward but I'm trying to
understand how that might impact these
costs, these aspens?
you indicated it's going to be a
policy decision for the council even
after staff goes through applying
these criteria but particularly if
multiple events of these 12 can meet
criteria, I'm wondering how does this
help us?
>> well, it's more to help guide your
decision.
so, if you want to compare two events
where one might be raising funds and
have not as much of a financial need
than another, it's more of a way that
you can kind of see that on paper
where if an event is free and open to
the public and is run by volunteers,
there's likely to be -- they may not
be able to have the event if they're
not subsidized.
>> I'm sorry, are these criteria used
in other communities?
>> yes.
[inaudible].
the
-- communities want to know can which
events are most accessible to the
community and most valued by the
community.
>> thank you.
>> I think I was next and I had the
same question about that little sub
slide that came up can you give us an
idea of why there's such a disparity
between our neighbors and us.
sit their policies, did we take a look
at their policy and what they're doing.
I find it hard that redondo beach with
almost two to lee times our population
and size and harbor and everything
like that is only paying -- it's only
costing them 45 thousand dollars a
year.
>> well, the majority of the cities
that I looked at only waive indirect
costs and not direct costs.
so, they charge the events for all of
the city services but if they have --
for example, if you have an event in
hermosa beach and you want to have it
at the pier plaza, you might pay 12-15
thousand dollars a day to have the
event at that location.
that's an indirect cost, so they might
waive the location fee.
we don't have location fees here in
the city.
so, these numbers, they're not apples
to apples.
if you look at some of the staffing
levels that they've proposed to cover,
we tend to staff more, we also have
some bigger events.
redondo beach has a couple of larger
events but I don't think they staff
them to the levels they could.
and like the highest subsidy for any
event that redondo beach has listed
that I could find was 10 thousand
dollars and el segundo's events are
pretty small in comparison to some of
our events.
>> councilmember howorth, thank you.
>> thank you, mr. Mayor.
so, this is in no way a comment on we
should or shouldn't support as many as
we do, but I think it would be
important for council to have the
actual numbers of what it costs us,
like -- and even if it's a total, so
maybe it's -- I don't want to pick
on anybody, like the dog races, I
don't want to say anyone's name out
loud because they're all going to call
me.
if we have the dog races on page 3 of
the staff report under event subsidies
and it said 100%, has doesn't tell me
what's the real budget of that and
then we may see and you could see, oh,
for the dog races, we staff it with,
you know, 100 police officers and then
we might be able to say, well, why
are we staffing at that level.
I think there's -- I think it's great
to have these criteria, that's a
different discussion but I think we
need have a discussion about what are
the staff levels, is it -- are we
requiring -- are we doing over
staffing, not according to what prior
councils have said but let's study it
again and I think that -- I think we
need to see what these different
things cost because -- and I would
support them all.
I'm not trying to cut any of them out,
but I am a little sick of getting
attacked for spending all this money
and yet people keep combining to us
and say, oh, support our event,
support our event, and to find out
that we spend 717 thousand dollars a
year, subsidizing events, probably
money well spent, but I want to know
does it cost this much, does it really
cost this much?
maybe it does.
maybe it costs this much to take out
the trash and maybe it costs that much
to have fire marshall or safety.
but I need the understand that better.
I'm hoping we'll bring it back.
I'm still prepared to talk about the
criteria, I think it's great, but I'm
hoping my other colleagues understand
and support that.
>> that's it.
>> thank you, and perfect timing for
me because I do agree with
councilmember howorth.
I think we need a little bit more
detail on these items and I know
that's not what the discussion here
tonight is for and maybe I'll ask the
city manager, is that something we can
vote on as a future agenda item or
maybe director leyman, is this
something coming back already on its
own because I would like to dive deep
into this and have specific questions
on each event and some history,
background, I want to treat each event
as a staff report and I want to
understand those events that were grand
fathered in, the legacy events, are
they -- do they fit this criteria and
I saw a few of them and a few of them
might not, maybe the dog races.
again, what's the opportunity?
>> and so if I understand what
council's asking for, it would be
providing a higher level of detail so,
we could integrate that into the
process.
when we bring back all of the
information from the applicant, we can
provide a high level detail in terms
of the staffing, the justification and
how many -- is that what we're looking
for?
>> I want to see it overall.
>> I want to see it overall, what the
level of service is, looking at this,
it's a great presentation but we're --
and it's not -- again, we have to focus
on what tonight's item is, it's
looking at the evaluation process but
I really would like to see annually
how much each individual will cost and
the servicing level, which ones are
taking the burden -- and it's probably
that number, the 717, it's probably
close tore a million when you shake it
out with hard costs, soft costs and
some of the stuff that gets done so
I'm just curious if that's combining
back because this is the right time
the look at it, it's the end of summer
but that's my thought.
>> that information will be brought
back, all of those financials, we have
the track record for all the legacy
events over many years, my question is
what level of detail and how would you
like to see that, other that than the
numbers itself, would you like to see
a line item, this is how many staff,
this is when their shifts are to
support this event?
>> that's a really good question.
I think you bring back as much
information as you feel necessary.
I don't want to leave it broad, I
don't know if we need every single
line item detailed but maybe police,
fire, public works, the refuse,
barricades, sometimes you see the big
barricades and sometimes the arm
barricades.
>> for us to look at it, not just on
an annual basis but to have our
opportunity to get our fingerprints as
this council to see which ones still
work, maybe which don't work, at what
level should they be because that is
sticker shock, 700 thousand, these are
big time events, especially little
league opening parade.
>> I said dog races.
>> but more importantly, it givers us
an opportunity to really be
responsible in the sense of the
spending and where we should be.
>> and the community.
what the community needs to know, yeah.
>> that's it.
>> sorry.
>> that's okay, it's a good tag team.
>> are you both finished?
>> thank you, mayor.
>> mayor pro tem tarnay?
>> thank you, mr. Mayor, just to help
me understand what you're asking for
here, we're just approving a
process that gets us to the evaluation
level, this is step one,
organizers, once we establish the
process, that's where we have this
orange sheet that has the flowchart of
what the next steps are, so we --
theoretically we'll be seeing
everything broken down per event so we
can evaluate as we go forward so that
for transparency sake, we know how
much things cost and, linda, I sat
down with linda and I appreciated the
process, it's going to be an item
that's going to be -- we're going to
be considering shortly but that's what
was presented in our meeting was just
the breakdown of the actual cost of
the barricades, the cost of staffing
and it really opened up my eyes to
what goes into an event and how the
labor costs are calculated so that
there is a direct nexus between what's
being charged by the city, subsidized
by the city and the actual cost to the
city to pay for those internally.
so, if that's my understanding, we're
just approving not of what projects
are going por ward but the process to
identify what projects we want to
subsidize and how much and so that we
have kind of numbers, transparent
numbers going forward?
>> that is correct.
>> okay, thank you.
>> okay.
and I wanted to look at like when I
saw the little league opening day
parade and back in the dinosaurs when
my kids played baseball, it was a big
deal.
they closed down the street and things
like that and it's kind of petered
away, but I would like to see if it's
relevant, what is the participation
rate or numbers as we go along.
are they falling off, are they
increasing?
are they staying the same?
>> well, in particular with the little
league parade and that's hard to say
right now because it didn't happen for
many years and it just came back this
year.
so, it's sort of -- we sort of have to
start now, my understanding is that
enrollment in little league is down
from many years ago, up from recent
years but down from when we had the
parade in the past I think.
so, that is something we would need to
start tracking from now.
>> okay.
and then I'm calling this a spill over
event, like other events that are --
gosh, we really do a lot here, don't
we.
like the santa sleigh, we
do provide the police escort and
things like that, do they pay us back
for that, is that something we're
providing?
>> that is not --
>> is it worthy of looking at since it
is an expense.
>> that is a very good question.
I would have to find that answer for
you.
that has never gone through the
special event process.
>> I'm not killing off santa sleigh.
>> then I put down things like the
pumpkin race, that's a great event,
does that come out of the parses and
rec budget?
>> yes, the pumpkin race is a city
event, that is funded out of the
general fund, but thank you for
mentioning that because I'm going to
throw this in.
starting with this next -- if you
approve this program, the [inaudible]
one that is on the same day as the
pumpkin race and the holiday open
house that happens in conjunction with
the pier lighting has nver been
considered outside special events so we
haven't really tracked those expenses
and the support that goes into those
events has been absorbed by the city
for the most part, so starting with
this next one, we will treat those two
events as special events as well, we
will be requesting legacy status for
them just to let you know but that's
not tonight.
but those will come into the picture.
>> and then is there anything else we
can do?
because I knower all these
organizations are going to say, yeah,
but we do such a great thing and they
do and we bring people to the city.
they're eating at the restaurant and
is staying in the hotels and doing all
these things.
should we sort of do an economic
impact, kind of touch an economic
impact of these events so that would
be an offset to -- is that necessary,
you think, for us to evaluate, counter
the expense, as we're going to get tot
going up and things.
>> we can work with our chamber of
commerce who manages our placer ai
contract to see if for some of these
events they're able to get us any
information on the number of visitors
historically to get an idea of what
that would look like, that's what I
can think of off the top of my head.
>> okay.
alright, great.
councilmember lesser?
>> I think mayor pro tem tarnay has it
first.
>> thank you.
>> I wanted to clarify, are we looking
for approval at this level, or are we
going to lump everything together and
ask council for
>> the council
wants to bifurcate all the decisions,
then you have to open for a public
comment each time and then deliberate
and make a decision and then we can move
on to the next topic, otherwise we can
move on from questions, present the
remainder of the items, go the
questions again and then do an all
inclusive public comment at the end,
so it's to the council's discretion.
>> I personally think bifurcating it
might be easier so we can keep things
clearer.
>> can we see if there's consensus?
>> that's what I'm asking.
>> is there a consensus amongst us?
>> that's what I mean.
>> when you say bifurcate, you're
talking about can --
>> no, just the process, right now
it's to approve the standardized
process for evaluating and
administering legacy events before we
move on to -- the next item is like
the holiday event.
>> yeah, let's do that.
>> so, I really wanted to provide more
direction because that was the
question by the director even though
we haven't heard from the public yet
on this item which we're going to be
bifurcating.
having the printout on the staff
report, on the estimated, the actual
costs was helpful because it shows we
can come up with these estimates
but often they underestimate what the
costs are, so I think part of this
process going forward should include
the estimate and then just for
reference at least the past year
showed what the estimate was and what
the actual was because there's
considerable difference.
it may or may not be relevant, I'm
thinking out loud, some of these
events have sponsors because the
actual full costs of some of these
larger events are much higher than the
amounts that are shown here but yet
sponsors pick up a portion of those
costs.
how relevant is that as we look at
what our city's costs are to support
it, is that relevant, or is that a
separate issue?
I just throw that out there.
but I support what mayor tarnay is
suggesting, we can bifurcate, once we
hear from public comment.
>> okay, so we'll open up for public
comments in the chamber.
>> stefan kampe here once again, great
topic and I appreciate how it was
presented, I thought it was great
material and presentation there.
one thing as I looked at it and I
pre-read it, I thought about why are we
doing this and how does it fit in and
what's the right budget, I think it'
good for the city council to take a
top down view.
if we spent 717 and our total
expenditure last year was 101 million
as a city last year, that's 7% of our
budget.
I think our residents love these events
and it makes our community great.
what' a reasonable budget?
.7 sounds good there, maybe 1%, it
givers you as a city council have a
budget in mind as you go into it.
and I think -- I really like this, the
question on how does this help us.
I think this givers you fact based
novembers make a decision on how to
allocate the funds.
what I've seen sometimes in city
council over the past x number of
years, sometimes I seems there's
emotional digs being made on dais, if
you have this information, it takes
some of that emotion out, givers you
fact based information on how to go
forward, I think the process is good,
I think the criteria is good, I would
love to see more of the criteria as it
goes into, I would endorse this.
I think it's a great idea.
>> thank you.
>> jill lamkin, chambers of commerce,
good evening, everyone.
I wanted to talk about the general
process and I totally agree with you,
nina, it was eye opening when we sat
down with talyn and libby and went
through those specific costs but I do
want you to know they can run that
report.
for the firework, it was like 240
thousand with the city expenses, so --
and then joe, -- mayor, I wanted to
answer your question, I'm sorry, about
the economic development piece of it.
I can certainly poll the information
from placer ai with you that givers me
data on attendance and demographics
but not economic impact, so it doesn't
tell me how much they spend anywhere
or what they're doing during their
time that they're here.
I just know who they are and where
they're from and how long they stay
here.
I hope that helps with what you're
asking.
>> and how much they spent when they
stayed here?
>> we have no way to track that
information, no.
>> thank you.
>> tim ryan, president of the north
manhattan beach association and going
to be on one of the agenda items.
going through, I am in support of
having a structure in place because
not having that is difficult in
planning.
there's couple of things I noticed on
the plan that I would put into
consideration and it goes with
councilmember lesser is that having a
budget set particularly for us which
would be an entire year in advance of
our event is unrealistic to say, hey,
it cannot exceed and for any event,
things can come up within a few weeks
that may need additional polices
support, safety, what have you that
comes in that having a hard amount
makes it very difficult for the
planners, parks and rec to say, well,
where are we going to come up with
this money if the city is going to
cover it but we have a hard sealing.
breaking it down, I mean, I'm shocked
at 717, I mean, our budget and things
way small, so it's hard to see where
everything's coming but breaking it
down by what the expenses are because
I know it's difficult, when we got
this is the estimate from the city
where it's fees related to parking
fees and as opposed to what are the
real hard costs that our event is
going to occur, these are the
personnel, these are the hours as
opposed to those costs that it's not
necessarily money that the city has
made or lost, it is just did a car
park there, would it have parked there
during that time anyways or not.
and seeing where does that value and
see how that compares to the other
cities.
thank you.
>> thank you.
anybody else in chambers?
no?
online?
>> no requests on zoom.
>> okay.
so, we will close public comment and
councilmembers, hold on, just give me
a second here.
anybody ready to make some comments?
councilmember lesser?
>> I see a motion.
would you like to go first,
councilmember tarnay?
>> I can make my motion, I have a
motion to approve a standardized
process for evaluating and
administering legacy special event
subsidies.
>> for my comment, I will be
supporting this motion, I appreciate
staff coming up with these criteria
but I think the total amount that our
city spends is something we need to
look at.
it was numbing when I reach nodded
out because it was not directly stated
in the staff report to better
understand the totality of what all of
these costs are to our city.
I think this council wants to continue
to have these events, they're
important to our commune, our
community members and our businesses
but we need to figure out a way that
is economically responsible.
I think one other factor that was
important to me, without taking away
from public safety, are there any
opportunities the for reducing any of
the additional costs that the city
provides?
that would be another question I would
have obviously more sponsorships,
that's going to be a simple sort of
comment.
is there something more we should be
thinking about given how much more we
spend as a city on our special events
than other cities?
>> mayor pro tem, did you want to --
>> I spoke already.
>> you spoke, okay.
so, councilmember howorth?
>> okay, mr. Mayor.
>> I'll wait.
>> okay.
such a gentleman.
>> I'll be supporting the process, I
appreciate the criteria and the
cringing, I think that's really
important.
and it is fair because then everybody
get it is same sort of process or
waiting.
but I do think it's important for us
as a city to be just really
transparent and not so we can say no,
you know, I don't think we would be
saying no but the public needs to
understand, again, it's appreciating
all that, you know, we do to make this
so much fun and so great but upswing
what it truly costs is really
important.
the transparency is hugely important
and I would include even though I know
that these -- I understand the
difference between a city event like
the pumpkin races, although that
wasn't always a city event, right,
that was something else, I think we
should talk about things like that and
the santa float, again, just so we can
say because sometimes -- it's not just
police and fire and public works, it's
parks and rec, it's all these
different staff members, so, you know,
again, I want our public to understand
what we're providing, and I also echo
what councilmember lesser said,
perhaps we could look at our staffing
requirements and again it may have to
be event by event.
that you may not be able to come up
with a chart or graph, it may have to
go by event but I think we maybe need
to look at that.
>> I also am going to support this
because it's really important for
these events but then future events
because some of us have been
approached by residents and go, I'm
passionate about this, if we could go
ahead and take over polliwog park for
a day or once a year type of thing or
down at the beach or anything like
that, but this will give them a guide,
a road map to get their thoughts
together and get their sponsorships
together.
I would almost like to see a separate
column for sponsorships, to see -- if
not the actual sponsor but how much
are they bringing to the table with
deferring the cost through the
sponsorship.
I had originally asked -- to ask them
for information about their own
fundraising but people like to keep
that proprietary and I can understand
that but it's important so that we can
-- staff, you're going to be bringing
in this much so this is your ask from
the city, in the city, we're going
to be singing the police department,
fire department, parks and rec staff,
that kind of thing so we can kind of
do some overall planning so I think
it's a great start and looking forward
to be involver with it.
we do have a motion to accept from
mayor pro tem tarnay and seconded by
councilmember charelian.
so, if you want to read your --
>> I thought I did already.
my motion is to approve the
standardized process for evaluating
and administering legacy special event
subsidies.
>> okay, call for the vote.
>> motion passes 5-0.
>> okay.
so, moving on the section l, city
council requests and the --
>> no.
>> oh, I'm sorry.
we got more, I'm sorry.
I have a record I'm trying to
establish here.
so, the second part.
>> I'll get to my -- okay.
thank you.
I'll now move on to the second item,
the north manhattan beach holiday
stroll.
this slide provides some important
context regarding how the city's
support for this event that changed
with the highland avenue closure.
in 2024, before the street closure,
the value of the city support was
approximately $5,700.
in 2025, with the pilot street closure
that increased to approximately 57
thousand 700 dollars including city
services and third party expenses.
for the 2026 event, the estimated oat
is 75 thousand, the increase is
primarily associated with the
resources necessary to support the
street closure and not necessarily an
increase in staffing but more salary
increases.
okay, I am -- I somehow managed to
delete a slide accidentally, so what
I'm going to talk about does not
directly relate to this slide.
last year council approved the closure
of highland avenue as a pilot for the
holiday stroll and the pilot was
successful.
the chamber is requesting that the
closure continue as part of the annual
event.
because the closure was originally
approved as a pilot, the additional
costs associated with the closure were
not incorporated into the fiscal year
2027 budget.
staff's requesting an additional
appropriation of 9 thousand dollars to
cover unbudgeted third party costs for
the 2026 event, beginning with the
next subsidy cycle, now using the
new program, new process, the holiday
stroll will be evaluated through the
standardized ro kress we just
discussed allowing any approved
subsidy to be incorporated into the
regular budget.
I have gone too far.
okay.
staff has identified four options for
council consideration, option 1 could
approve the road closure and
appropriate 9 thousand dollars for the
unbudgeted third party costs with the
city paying all city services and
third party expenses.
option 2 would approve the road
closure and appropriate 9 thousand
dollars for unbruised third party
costs but would require the north
manhattan beach bid to pay third
party costs up to 12 thousand 500
dollars.
option 3 would approve the road
closure with no city subsidy by making
the north manhattan beach bid
responsible for all city services and
third party expenses.
and option 4 would not approve the
road closure in which case no
additional appropriations would be
necessary.
the decision before council is
therefore both whether the highland
avenue closure should continue and
what level of city subsidy should
accompany that closure.
staff is available for questions and
we're requesting council direction
regarding both continuation of the
highland avenue closure and the
appropriation subsidy for
the 2026 event.
>> council member?
>> thank you, mayor, in option 2, it
says approve the road closure and
appropriate 9 thousand dollars for
unbudgeted third party cost asks then
it says third party costs up to 12
thousand 500 dollars to be paid by the
north manhattan bid but the third
party costs projected for 2026 is 12
thousand 500 dollars.
so, why is there the 9 thousand and
the 12 thousand 500?
>> that's a great question.
3500 is already included in our budget
for third party costs so we would need
9 thousand more to cover the 12
thousand 500 so, that was the request
for the appropriation, but in the end
we would bill the bid back for the
entire cost of the --
>> so, it's a little confusing there.
so, option 2 is the bid is on
the hook for 12 thousand 500, the
third party cost and we're approving
the road closure, it's not the third
party cost that we've bunged but it's
a cost for staff that's represented.
>> in that larger number, yes.
>> okay, do we have -- do we know if more
people attended when the street versus
closed versus when the street was
closed?
>> I would recommend asking our
representatives.
>> if I may have jill lamkin, ms.
lamkin from the chamber and north
business, I do have questions, did
more people attend in 2025 with the
street closure versus 2024?
>> good evening, jill lamkin, chamber
of commerce and representing north
manhattan beach as well.
yes, 2024, there were 2.2 thousand
visitors and they stayed for an
average of 111 minutes and 2025, there
were 3.5 thousand visitors and they
stayed for an average of 122 minutes
so, we had 1300 more people and they
stayed for longer so that is obviously
important for the business.
>> when the mayor asked earlier, does
this increase revenue, anecdotally, I
have to believe there was a big
increase in revenue because people
were going to the restaurants and --
>> absolutely, this is the one
community event they have, so this is
a big deal for them.
>> so, how many --
>> that's the only time the street
gets closed.
it is the only time it's ever been
closed for that event was the one time.
>> alright, thank you very much.
>> yes.
>> I'll come back I'm sure.
>> jill, will you stay, please.
>> that didn't take long.
>> I didn't want her to go up.
>> I was going to suggest she join us
on the dais.
so, mayor pro tem?
>> thank you, mr. Mayor.
I know that with the ai date, that we
can see where the visitors are coming
from and so can you share with us that
demographic?
are they local, are they visitors?
>> when I go sit down the next time, I
will pull up the exact percentage, the
vast majority is local, they're almost
all neighborhood so it's not a lot of
driving that's happening, it's al all
neighbors.
when I go back and sit down, I'll look
that up for you.
>> as a representative for the north
end, were there complaints about the
event or were there any issues with
event at all?
>> we had one issue very early on,
lieutenant benjamin and I
discussed it because there were so
many people walking from the el porto
side down to where the street was
closed that there were people having a
hard time turning right on rosecrans,
so she had someone go down and change
the timing of the lights and that was
the biggest issue we had was just too
many pedestrians which is a pretty
good problem to have.
>> thank you.
>> I don't know if this is for you or
for linda, thereafter slide that
showed the difference between the
previous year and then this past year
with the road closure.
>> I have a question about that one
too.
>> so, the increase with the --
because I know the 2025 number, it
says with street closure but it wasn't
-- no, I'm sorry, I'm looking at 2024,
with no street closure, so 2025, we
had 45 thousand and then with 2026,
we're expecting 14 thousand dollar
jump in the budget for that.
can you share with us what accounts
for that increase?
>> that is changing the fully burdened
rate to the current fully burdened
rate from the previous one.
>> okay.
>> there's no -- there may have been
one officer added to the previous
year, for the most it is salary
increases.
>> and does that include, I understand
there was the projected cost and the
actual cost, does that include that
difference?
>> we started with the actual costs
from last year and then hiked the
fully burdened rate, updated the fully
burdened rate so it's the same amount
as staff hours but I think we added
one more officer.
>> so it does account for the fully
burdened rate from last year?
>> yes, it does.
>> okay, thank you.
>> councilmember charelian?
>> thank you, mayor.
again, I appreciate you guys bringing
this forward.
early enough so you can potentially
get this done in the next couple of
months here, it's coming before we
know it.
I'm a big proponent of the north bid,
I've been a representative as prior
staff as well as council, I liked what
I saw last year with the road closure
and the activity for the businesses,
it was a nice buzz and it wasn't from
the beer.
but I wanted to ask the fire chief
real quick because I was there and one
of my biggest concerns was the
thoroughfare for these big box
ambulances that we have, the
state of the art.
I don't know if you had any calls
between that time in the north end?
>> I would have to go back and check.
>> were there any issues because you
had to redirect -- you weren't going
down highland anymore.
>> we planned for that during our plan
progress, we didn't up staff for
this event, it was approximately 3500
people, but that doesn't -- in us
doing our data analysis, that doesn't
generate increased staffing for the
fire department.
we do sit through the special event
permitting process, we analyze and
take a look at all the street closures
and then we plan with personnel so
that they can redirect their routes
for emergency calls but at this time,
nothing was directed back to me of any
issues.
>> no, I appreciate that, and I know
you guys are watching from it from
afar, keeping your fingers and pulse
here and that's really important the
for that many people.
linda, for the police, if there was
any outside of the right turn on
rosecrans, was there any other
incidents?
I don't want to be super broad, did
the re of it go well?
you haves only there for a half hour.
>> there were no incidents that I'm
aware of and as far as I have heard,
there weren't complaints either about
redirecting that traffic down through
manhattan avenue.
>> got you, so stay up here, I have a
couple of more questions, it has to do
with the budget, you indicated parks
and rec budgeted 3500 dollars for
this.
>> not parks and rec, that 3500 was
police department for public safety.
>> for public safety, there's $3,500
in the budget and then looking at
slide 17, I was a little confused
with the 9 thousand and the 12
thousand the earlier councilmember
brought up.
you have that $3,500 and that 9 and 12
was the variance -- the 3500 dollars
is still budged in the city's budget,
so you're asking for 12 thousand 500
total for this budget.
>> yes.
>> okay.
third question, and I know we jumped
on the support last year with the 9
thousand and the closure and it was
very successful and then you mentioned
you were going to re-evaluate it
singing the system that we just
approved.
so, is there an opportunity since last
year, we upped the 9 thousand dollars
and there's -- I think I heard over
258 thousand dollars in the reserves
for the north bid.
is there a possibility that we can do
a split this year?
we talked about that last year?
>> is that a question for
the chamber?
>> mark, but my point being is those
are reserves and I asked earlier what
those reserves would be utilized for
and I think they're for opportunities
such as this to be able to tap into --
those are specifically funded for
north manhattan beach district.
>> the option that I have here that
does share some of the expenses is
option 2 and that would require the
bid to pay for all third party costs.
>> and I'm not -- I want to -- I'm
supporting like the process here and I
want to support the north bid and give
some funds but I'm looking for an
opportunity to help us because I'm
being fiscally observant here, you
know, just trying to see if there's a
way, help me help you, it's like I
want to throw in some money but theres
is there an opportunity to utilize
their own funds that are specifically
for the north manhattan -- they're
collected assessments from years past
for these type of things going forward.
>> in the budget that you approved for
us, we allocated 25 thousand dollars
of our budget this year specifically
for supporting of the holiday stroll,
so we are allocating the vast majority
of our annual budget to the biggest
chunk of our single chunk of our
budget is to support the holiday
stroll.
>> yeah, and I'm aware of that.
I guess my whole thing is your reserve
is a savings account because we're
still monitoring how this is going to
play out with the whole process for
next year, and last year we opened up
our wallets and let's do this, a as a
pilot program.
this is an opportunity and I'm not
talking exactly to you as president,
but generally to staff or whoever,
maybe the city manager, this is what
the reserve is for, I'm saying instead
of asking for 12 thousand 500, why
don't we dip into reserves.
we are the policy makers, we could
utilize those funds for this and we
have our city attorney here, it's a
bid and they put in the reserves for
the bid, so I guess my question is --
>> to cover the staff and city
value, I see what you're saying but I
think -- I got it, okay.
>> so, I want to talk about that a
little bit.
the first thing is the budget that the
bid gave to the association is mostly
for marketing purposes.
the holiday stroll is a negative
revenue event.
this is already a loser because -- I
mean, it would be the same thing if
you were looking at downtown, we spent
like 15 thousand dollars on
entertainment and all of those kinds
of things which is what draws people
in, they have to market it and all
that kind of stuff.
we also got sponsorships, we're trying
to do everything but the bid
specifically said, if we
cannot make this revenue neutral going
forward, that the reserve money stops,
that they're not going to do that, so
this event is already in the red and
what we're trying to do with it is
kind of what has been created for
downtown with the holiday open house
where it's like this big thing that
everybody knows about it and they come
and eventually hopefully the bid will
be self-sustaining annually.
they only bring in 25 I think is what
libby's most recent estimate was, 25
thousand dollars a year, if we're
taking 15 of that, we'll never make
this event sustainable at this point,
so -- and part of all of this that's
sort of confusing to me is why I'm
happy that we're looking at this whole
process is when we came in july and we
asked for the closure of the streets
and what the staff report and you guys
approved was 10 thousand 216 dollars
in third party expenses and that's
what we budgeted for was for that
amount and then the first bill that I
got was for 27 thousand 779 dollars
which included all kinds of things
that weren't in there.
I mean, that weren't intended, they
were city staff parking meters which
were bagged at that point, so I don't
know why we even got that.
but then they're like, we need to
revise that, then it came back at 12
thousand 246 dollars 17 cents which is
still different than the 10 thousand
600, so the best that we can do is
budget for what we're asked and when
we were asked for the 10 thousand 216,
we budgeted for that as a part of the
loss that we were going to do on that.
this is in terms of relative expenses
for other events, this one is not that
much and it is the only one that
happens in north manhattan beach and I
would just ask you, like I said, we're
going out and finding son sore ships.
if there's a way to make it a
co-sponsored city event the way that
the downtown holiday open house is so
that extra 10 thousand 200 dollars
gets covered for us and it's not a
loss, that would be really outstanding
because it's so important to these
businesses and I know you guys are
getting peppered with a bunch of
e-mails from residents in that area as
well because they're all saying, hey,
this is the one thing we have and
downtown gets to do a lot of fun stuff
and if we can do something to
support the businesses on that end of
town, I would really appreciate it.
>> and I don't think -- and I speak
for myself but I think we're all in
support of the north end, we want
north end to thrive, we want you to
have this one street closure.
I guess for me, the conservative side,
and I know this is a loser, there's no
way you're making enough assessment
coverage, for example, during our
budget process, we with had to dig
deep into our reserves to take care of
some one time items almost in the tune
of 10 million dollars, we dug into our
reserves to do that, that's what the
reserves are for.
so, my question is, this is maybe this
is a finance question.
>> I guess my point is we're already
digging 90 thousand into the reserves
which puts us 60 thousand over what
we're bringing in this year.
the methodology behind that as we're
working hard on getting businesses to
participate and working on marketing
and all of those things and it's like
--
>> understood.
>> okay, thank you.
>> thank you.
>> thank you, libby bretthauer,
finance director, so, trying to think
back to what your question is, a lot
of time has passed since you asked the
original question.
I believe what you're asking is in the
process, if the bid was willing to
contribute more funds from the funds
holding in reserve for them, that would
need to go back to an agendized
bid meeting for them to discuss
because the meeting has was held in
july that I mentioned the previous
renewal item or the public hearing,
they reviewed the proposed
activity plan and the budget that
was proposed by the association and
the bid advisory board approved that
and then you approved earlier tonight.
so I believe if we were to
allocate more funds, we would need to
schedule another bid advisory board
meeting.
we're already planning on having
another bid advisory board meeting in
the next two months to discuss the
election, so we could certainly bring
this back as another item for
discussion then to see if they're
willing to entertain any funds from
reserves.
>> no I appreciate it, that's all I
have.
>> councilmember lesser?
>> could I have you address the last
slide, slide 16 because I'm confused
on costs.
what has been allocated in our current
fiscal year 2026-2027 budget for the
north end holiday stroll this coming
december at this point?
>> I would have to the look this up.
>> I'm happy to ask linda directly.
>> she has it at her fingertips then.
>> it's been allocated already for the
city for the subsidy for this event.
>> what is already included in our
budget out of the 75 thousand 189 is
31 thousand 805.
>> okay.
so, in our staff report in the
presentation, there is a reference to
a need for an additional 9 thousand
and/or an additional 12 thousand 500.
there still leaves quite a delta here
so I'm not tracking this slide with
the actual costs that the city's
estimated to expend which would be
even higher than the amount listed
here.
>> so, the difference is staffing and
there is a difference in the way it's
estimated and the way it's valued
which is -- when I'm pulling costs out
of the budget, I'm pulling staff hours
as they're budgeted for salary.
those are not fully burdened
rates.
so, sometimes it's not apples to apples
so that's why I was calling it the
value of city services is when we
calculated afterwards we're using this
fully burdened rate.
>> so I'm still looking for that delta
if I could and then I have another
question.
>> just to add on to what linda
was saying because it does get really
confusing and I think we tend to
conflate the two -- there's what we
would charge to external parties using
the fully burdened rates which
includes a lot of indirect coasters
and overhead costs, that's what we're
billing third parties for our time.
what we would pay for our employees
for staffing to the vendors is going
to be less, so, we've been working on
how to more clearly present that and I
think tonight's discussion provers we
need to do some more work on that for
future items and we certainly will, so
-- and then I guess to answer your
other question a about what that
delta is, I think what the piece that
we're not showing is the regular staff
time, that's not overtime, there's not
like a very specific line item in our
budget for the event because we're
also contributing regular staffing
costs that's imbedded in the personnel
budget for salary and benefits.
>> linda, one final question if I
could.
if council is very much supportive of
holiday stroll but wants to look at
what might be a lower cost option of
just not cosigning the street this
year, there's the cost from 2024, has
that cost been updated many council
were to direct there be a holiday
stroll but not with a street closure?
>> I did a very quick calculation to
see what that cost might be with the
updated fully burdened rates, it would
be about $7,500.
>> okay, I have some more thoughts but
let me wait for the other councilmen
to ask questions.
thank you.
>> so, for my question, are we going
to be doing this for just this next
year and then re-evaluate?
>> so, this that's in front of you
today is for 2026 event and then the
2027 event will be part of the whole
fee waiver process.
>> okay.
and then -- sorry, I'm missing a slide.
yeah, that -- that's it for now, I
wanted to make sure it waser going to
be going on without taking a look at
other future years.
mayor pro tem?
>> thank you, linda, I did have a
follow-up question, so basically what
I'm hearing is that we will -- once we
have to get through this hurdle
because we didn't have a system in
place to go through the process of
analyzing and getting all the numbers
broken down as you and I and jill and
a talyn and libby had met to go
through the actual numbers but going
forward, if we approve this, this
event will be going through the same
process as all the other events so
we'll have opportunities to weigh
apples for apples, north manhattan,
downtown, and really have an
opportunity to evaluate and not just
look at just this specific event and
how we can cut costs on just the north
side, the only event that the
north side has and cutting the budget
for that event but really looking at
it from a holistic, all of our
subsidized events, right?
>> yes, that's correct.
>> we're trying to get through this
initial hurdle and going forward,
we'll be doing this evaluation with
all the other events?
>> correct.
>> alright, thank you.
>> councilmember howorth?
>> thank you.
I have another question, but, I mean,
yes and no.
I mean, the evaluation process
doesn't have anything to do with the
cost.
>> yeah.
>> the evaluation process is just a
public benefit, is there a fee to
attend, is there -- so, right, if the
evaluation criteria is about --
>> no, I wanted to follow up on that.
but would costs be included into -- so
I know that whether something is a
legacy event and a subsidized event is
part -- is the overall umbrella but
part of that will include a breakdown
of what it costs so --
>> there's always a breakdown of what
it costs and that's not how we
decide whether we're going do it, so
we always gate breakdown of costs.
the evaluation criteria was just
approved is totally different.
it's about how many points do you get
if something a public good, I guess
just to clarify.
>> yes.
>> so, what this is, is saying, hey,
when the city tried to go back to the
north end and say we said it would
cost 12 thousand, it's going to cost
this much, that was a huge shock and
not able to be absorbed by the north
end and a lot of it -- then you have
your third party cost, but then the
staff cost is -- was the expensive
thing, and I think that the question
before us here is which one of these
options, you know, do we still want to
do the road closure because -- and if
so, how do we want to divide up the
costs, right.
and one thing I want to point out
though is the cost that we do when
we're talking about -- this kind of
goes to your point, councilmember
charelian, I understood what you were
asking about the north manhattan bid's
reserve funds and how we had to go
into our reserves but these numbers
when we talk about the cost to the city,
often it's not always overtime, right.
it's an accounting, it's not a charge,
is that correct?
I'm looking at the city manager.
sorry, I don't want to have linda have
to take this.
>> it is an accounting, as linda
mentioned earlier in her presentation,
for most of a lot of these events, the
city takes on that cost as it's
accounted for.
>> right, so just understand that
we're not saying you should have to
pay unless you are and that's okay
too, we can discuss that, but
sometimes, I mean, we do have police
on duty and we're allocating them in
this area so this is just budgeting,
this is what it costs uss bah we're
not charging you this much, correct,
and again I'm looking at somebody.
looking over here.
>> that's correct.
>> okay, but the third party costs are
additional costs that we incur, that
we would not incur if that event
wasn't happening, so for this, we're
not talking about any criteria, we're
talking about how we're going to
handle the costs and what the event
will be.
>> to clarify, the things that -- the
overtime costs and the third party
costs are costs that we incur, that we
would not incur if the event was not
happening.
>> right, so the -- okay.
alright.
perfect.
>> mayor, I have a follow-up
question.
>> yes.
>> linda, can I just confirm from a
process standpoint, is there sometime
if council's not ready to make a
decision tonight because we want to
have these costs laid out and have a
better understanding of what the bid
is able to contribute, I think we have
a general idea, are there any other
sponsors, is there time given we're
not going to have a september piser
meeting for this item to come back
with sufficient time to plan for the
holiday stroll event?
>> well, there's time for staff and I
think that is a question for --
>> it would be good to have another
meeting to confirm what it's willing
to contribute.
>> through the mayor, can we have him
come to the microphone.
>> it would greatly hamper us, parts
of last year why we weren't able to
raise sponsorship and different
things, we didn't get approval until
30 days before the event, so the
longer that it goes out that we don't
have any clarification or
finalization, we cannot do planning
and so if we have to go back to cover
a shortfall with the bid approving and
then the council approve, is it's
unlikely that funding would get
approved until november and by then it
hamstrings our ability to put on the
best event that we can.
>> thank you.
>> okay.
mayor pro tem?
>> thank you, mr. Mayor.
so, sorry, tim, to follow up on that,
sorry, is there an opportunity, so if
we were to say move forward with this
and appropriate funds, as it would be
helpful to do, an up to amount and
give you all an opportunity to
continue to find sponsorship funding
or other surceases of partnership?
>> we are looking por sponsorships,
this event is not making money and is
losing even with the city's allocation
because we have our costs that have
nothing to do with the city and so we
are trying and actively going after
sponsors so it becomes a net positive
event for the association and bid's
budget because as jill also mentioned,
we are on a short leash for spending.
at our current burn rate, we have
about two and a half to three years of
total funding reserves at our current
burn rate so, we have no other choice
but to either -- is to greatly
increase revenues for the association
or greatly reduce costs and so we will
be actively going to try to get more
sponsorships and add more events and
more things that can offset the
costs and our expenses that we're
going to put in to promote our
district.
>> okay, thank you.
>> so, what would a sponsor look like?
who are some prospects?
you don't have to give names, but --
>> anyone?
>> I'm saying --
>> I am perfectly fine walking around
like a nascar driver.
there's -- we are looking for a
standard for all events, we are trying
to be very cognizant of our members
and businesses within, so one way that
we are gaining revenue is to charge
for booth space.
we charge a very low rate for last
year's stroll and we had great
feedback from those that paid.
we do give booth space to everyone of
the members for free.
we also limit who can purchase a booth
because we do not want or limit
competing businesses, particularly
businesses from outside of our bid
that compete with the ones inside of
our bid.
we have tried -- we have a whole
sponsored deck of different levels,
different types of sponsors.
the difficult thing on sponsorships
for everything is we need to start and
line up with everybody's fiscal year,
and so we are also behind the
schedule, so anything smaller
sponsorships, the 4999 dollars, we can
get, but if we need that 5 thousand
plus one, we need to start that
essentially a year in advance and try
to lock that in.
>> okay.
>> and I'm open if anybody here has a
checkbook, I will happily or jill will
happily take it.
>> thank you.
alright.
>> mayor?
if you may open the public hearing for
anyone not related to the north end
bid association.
>> we have a taker.
>> okay.
>> can we go back to that cost slide.
I'm still confused on how much money
is being requested to be given here,
it's just not clear to me.
it doesn't have to be an exact number,
are we talking 60 thousand, 30
thousand, I just don't get it.
the if someone can summarize that for
everyone, that would be helpful.
we have the wave rider program still
understood way and if we could
schedule nem to have more than the
average number of cars, thank you.
>> okay, anybody else?
online?
no, we're clear, we'll close public
comments.
proceed with our council discussion.
mayor pro tem?
>> thank you, mr. Mayor, I wanted to
open this up.
I live on the north side of town and I
attended last year's event, I attended
many of the previous year's event and
is hands-down, it was a hugely popular
and successful event for the north --
the residents in the north end.
as jill pointed out, we don't have
anything like that on the north side
of town and many of our businesses
feel very neglected because all the
events and the discussions tend to
center on the businesses in downtown
manhattan beach, so, you know, as far
as like building on an event, this is
a great opportunity for us.
I know it was a pilot program last
year and it did prove to be very
successful and I hope we can
continue to allow it to grow so that
at some point, it can hopefully
self-sustain, but at this point, we
see the challenge of figuring out what
the projected cost will be and then
because it's the first year we're
doing this, what the actual co-s are,
so I think from a planning standpoint,
we have to anticipate that there will
be times when we're off the mark and
that we should do what we can to
ensure that this event can continue on
and continue to build and continue to
thrive.
so, I would love to hear from my
council colleagues, but I think it's a
great event and I will be supporting
it on some level.
>> okay.
councilmember howorth?
>> thank you, mr. Mayor, a couple of
my colleagues represented that maybe
they live in the north end or they've
been in the north end manhattan beach
council representative and I currently
am the north manhattan council
representative and it's been so
wonderful and I'm so grateful that I
was appointed to that position mr,
mayor, because it's been a long time
since I've had that position.
I think back when I was a baby, I was
on and it was a very -- you were
probably, steve, the staffer, and it
was a very different organization.
I don't know if it's jill, I don't
know if it's tim, I don't know, but
I'll tell you what, this
organization is really upping its game
trying to really professional and make
the best of what they can and what
I've come to understand, just
understanding the variety and beauty
of the small businesses in north
manhattan beach has been so much fun.
also it was represented earlier
tonight when we do the pier lighting,
that's when downtown gets to do their
holiday open house, it's considered a
city event basically.
so, they get all the benefit of that
excitement and energy and people
coming into their stores without
having to go through this process and
it is sort of an unfair advantage and
so -- and it's such a much smaller
event in the north end and yet for
them to support it all would not be
tenable for them and this is an
opportunity to help maybe level up the
playing field a little bit for them.
I mean, they do feel neglected and I
was at -- and I don't mean that in a
victim kind of way, I mean, they are
working hard to help their area and
beautify their area and I think we all
know that.
I was going to
say something so profound, I
really was.
but this event means so much to them,
you also have the manhattan downtown
beach association that has the
farmers' market, that's how they make
money to fund their organization and
put own vents.
this the north end has nothing like
thab.
so, I really hope we can find a way to
support this.
the parking lot, this is what I was
going to mention.
so, we had a couple of years ago
parking lot 3 was finally closed,
condemned and we had a crisis where we
had to close it, demolish it,
resurface it, right.
well, look at parking lot 4 up in the
north end, reason I bring it up is
they see all these things happening in
downtown and if we're really going to
support small businesses and locally
owned businesses, I think we have to
really do the same up in the north
end, so I'll be supporting this too.
>> councilmember charelian?
>> thank you, I'll keep it
short and brief.
no one's doubting that last year's
event wasn't great.
I think it was wonderful and well put
together and everyone wants the north
manhattan beach businesses to succeed
and campaigning small businesses, yes.
the last year this was a pilot
program, it was brought to us and we
opened our arms and said we'll give
you the money, we'll bridge that gap,
not a problem, but whether you come
back next year, help us find a
solution to not -- don't make it a
precedent somewhat.
and I get it, I get burn rate of the
reserves that the gentleman brought
up, up there, and I do support this
event.
I'm just trying to be fiscally
conservative due to the fact that we
just, you know, times aren't as
well as they were and revenues for us
are -- whoever looked at the financial
report that the finance director put
out was on consent, it shows the
revenues and our major core
revenues, property taxes are down, so
again, I support everything about
this, I'm having a hard time wrapping
my arms around the me too clause with
the downtown, it's great, I've been
there, I've been a delegate as an
employee and as a councilman for many
years, I'm trying to be fiscally
conservative, I want to try to get
there.
last year we allowed it and paid for
it and said come up for a solution
next year and now we're having this
conversation again, so I'm trying to
be fiscally conservative and not just
approving money going out the door.
but for a great cause.
>> so, --
>> mayor, I think the finance director
is --
>> if I could jump in, I wanted to
address one thing on the other end of
financial reports for june, those are
preliminary monthly financial reports,
we have a 60 day accrual period
where we're still accruing revenue
back to the prior fiscal year and
last year in 2025, we changed our
accrual accounting methodology so that
is one of the reasons why the -- if
you're referring to sales tax, tot tax
and I think business license tax, it
looks like it's down compared to last
year, that's because we still have
more entries that will be accrued back
to june, so I didn't want to anybody
hear that statement and be alarmed
that something was down considerably
from the prior years but thank you for
your point so that we are operating on
a very tight budget this year and
every penny counts, thank you.
>> thank you.
so, I think with a little bit more
effort that money can be raised among
the businesses and even private
parties.
hey, you had a great time, help pitch
in.
you want to see the event again, you
know, help us out.
make a certain night of -- at the
restaurants of the holiday stroll
night to help fund.
I mean, really sort of get the
neighborhood a that hasn't been tapped
to just give a little extra or to give
a little bit extra, you can see how
that could grow to be something
significant.
it's going to be a unique programming
for that area, it's just so much fun,
full of spirit and I just think with a
little bit more effort and thought as
to raising the funds that are needed
to make up that deficit that the north
end can do that, so I think we can
support them to help them on this
process and can -- because I think
it's good for all the city.
>> if I may jump in, mayor, may I jump
in to address a question that was
posed earlier?
>> yes.
>> I just want to clarify, there are
two things we need, one is to
understand if the council wants to
move forward in 2026 with the closing
of the street and, two, I wanted to
clarify that the additional budget
appropriation that we would need to do
that for 2026 is 9 thousand dollars,
all else was budgeted for already.
it's that the additional third party
costs, so I want to make sure the
council understands that to close in
2026, we would need an additional 9
thousand dollar budget appropriation
and all else was already budgeted.
>> okay, so 9 thousand, great.
mayor pro tem?
>> thank you, mr. Mayor,
and I do appreciate us being
fiscally prudent.
I know they're having to previously
dip into reserves doesn't feel great.
however we've heard from the
representative from the north end,
we've heard from the manhattan bid,
they have trying and have been working
hard and they're doing everything they
can, so while I want all of us to be
working so we can bridge this gap, I
think we're asking them to shoulder
more of an event that we don't
currently ask for other similar events
in other parts of town.
so, I think going forward, if this is
our process, then I appreciate going
through the process for all the other
events but I do think that it's not as
fair for the north end if this is
their only event they've ever held and
that we're asking more of them than
we're asking from other event groups.
so, you know, I hope I -- I implore
that all of you consider that and as
jill pointed out, this is an event
that -- and councilmember howorth
pointed out is this is tho not unlike
the downtown open house, so the city
sponsors that, and so maybe in the
future, this could be something that
the city partially sponsors and that
we can treat the two events in a
similar fashion.
thank you.
>> councilmember lesser?
>> madam city manager, I'm not polling
the numbers here, I'm sorry, I know
I'm sort of belaboring this.
the staff report indicates that we
only need to allocate 9 thousand
dollars but I thought what was
budgeted was 31 thousand 805, is that
right, that was the amount that was
budgeted previously?
>> so, that is the amount that's budgeted.
as I was explaining earlier about the
accounting methodology, that's what we
budgeted in salaries and for those
third party expenses but at the end of
the day when we come back with our
actual, they're going come back at
this higher amount because we'll be
using fully burdened rates so we
expect that the budget will absorb
-- it's prepared to absorb any of
those excess costs but what we haven't
budgeted for is that excess 9 thousand
dollars in third party expenses for
csc.
>> we're still talking about a
difference, I'm just doing the math
here, if we're expecting this to cost
fully burdened rates 75 thousand 189,
the difference between 38805 plus 9
thousand dollars, the adding the fully
burdened rates is --
>> I don't have that number at my
disposal.
what we're trying to say is that the
budget can absorb the excess staffing
costs that are showing on here but what
we really have not built anywhere in
the budget is this 9 thousand dollars
to cover the excess outside expenses.
>> and to add to that, so, some of
staffing costs are -- there's not a
specific line item because of -- it's
either regular staffing hours for
salary and benefits and some employees
choose to use comp time instead of
overtime as well, that's why it's
difficult, we do estimates every year,
sometimes especially this last year,
we did certainly miss the mark there
but it was through internal
discussions with public works, police,
fire, we did determine we feel that we
can absorb the costs in what's
currently budgeted and what we
currently have in our current adopted
budget for the staff and city costs.
>> for my comments, I enjoyed going to
the holiday stroll with the road
closure, I had been skeptical when
council approved it last year.
I've been to prior holiday strolls
where the road has not been closed.
they're not quite as much an event, we
indicated more people were drawn.
I'm concerned about the overall cost.
I'm concerned about it.
I think we need a better model here
to make this sustainable and to work
for our community.
I want to see an event for the north
end.
all these comments that
have been made the north end not
having a community gathering like the
fireworks are true.
I appreciate all that went into
creating this but this particular
model, the total expense are
problematic for me so I would welcome
another way to get this number to --
to achieve it and I'm not sure we can
do it this year.
this was a pilot this last year but
I'm just not seeing it for this year,
particularly given the amount of time
that's left and for the bid to have
another meeting if they would even
consider another meeting so I'm
skeptical of moving forward at this
point with the road closures and would
be supportive of moving forward with
the holiday stroll as way it was the
year before last.
>> councilmember howorth?
>> thank you, mr. Mayor.
so, again though, we're being asked if
we want to do the road closure, it
would be appropriating another 9
thousand dollars and I just think that
we -- I support that, I think we can
can absorb that.
I think one thing to consider is with
the road closure and I'm going to look
at the fire chief and you can -- why
don't you come down here, I was going
to say blink your eyes if you
understand and then I was going to
give that to the public.
I have to assume that closing off the
road is a safer way to do this in addition
to allowing for more room, but doesn't
that provide a different level of
safety for folks who are there?
>> so, if you are going allow people
on the roadway, absolutely, yes.
>> alright, but the question is to --
if you're having people on the
sidewalks and there's lots of people
walking around but you have the normal
traffic going through, it seems like
--
>> definitely helps but with that
style of road closure, you values to
have the appropriate barriers in
place, special events that we've seen
has have sub barriers if place and
then people drive around them and then
you see disaster situations that
you've seen throughout the nation.
>> not going to happen here.
>> chief johnson, where is she?
>> okay, yes, mr. Mayor, can I finish
comments after we hear from chief
johnson.
>> of course, yeah.
>> good evening from my office, mayor
franklin and members of the city
council, I apologize for not being in
chambers right now, what the fire
chief was talking about with regard to
road closures, if you're going to have
people near the roadways, it's always
safer to close the road, we've seen
things like meridian barriers and
things like that to prevent any
intrusion into the closed portion of
the roadway, whether that's someone
who's just following waze, we take a
strong posture with closing a roadway
and making sure it's closed properly
which require things like meridian
barriers and people to provide that
direction as necessary and to mitigate
any traffic issues as they occur
around the closure.
>> thank you, so yeah, given
everything we've talked about tonight,
it is a strange thing to say this one
we're not going to appropriate like
this 9 thousand dollars.
we've already appropriated the other
things they're budgeted for and for
all the reasons I mentioned and I
certainly don't want the take anything
away from the downtown and I'm glad of
all the support that we give them and
continue to give them.
I just think this is more important
and I realize it now, I think it's more
important to this area that we do this
so I have seconded the motion and I
think what the president mentioned is
if we approve this, it givers them
more of a chance to get sponsorships
whereas if they start now, they can
advertise, they can do this, they can
make this happen and maybe they'll be
able to make enough to cover their
costs and start contributing to ours.
but as a city, we are always going to
make sure that any permitted event
that's happening is safe.
we're never going let anything not be
safe or not live up to our standards
so we're going to do that regardless
of what they do.
anyway, I will be supporting this and
I'm excited about it.
>> mayor pro tem?
>> thank you mr, mayor, and I'm
listening to my colleagues, I
understand councilmember lesser's
concerns, you know, that we did start
this as pilot program.
one of measures of the pilot program
to me, we want the event to be
self-sustaining, we want -- many of
our events can't be self-sustaining
and we have to subsidize.
one of the thins the manhattan bid is
asking here, the measure of success
that I saw was successful, there was
huge community participation, people
who lived in the area who were able
to walk down who didn't have to driver
down and as someone who has attended
the many, many years of these events
in the past with kids in strollers and
with young kids, I can tell you there
were years where I have some kids who
weren't as good listeners as other of
my kids who I can't take down there
because there were --
>> christopher?
>> yes, sorry.
good thing he's not listening today.
so, we couldn't go when he hit a
certain year because he didn't want to
hold my hand, he wouldn't sit in the
stroller and he waned to be walking
and it is very, very difficult to have
all those cars congested sidewalks
with strollers, double strollers and
if you have more than one kid that
you're in channeled of, -- charge of,
it is very did difficult for those
families to bring their family down to
the a truly community local event
without safety measures as we
mentioned, a closed street is a much
safer street for families for a
community event.
so, I implore you to reconsider that
and then support that so I do have a
motion and I know that there are other
councilmembers who will be speaking
but my motion is to approve the
road closure and appropriate 9
thousand dollars is what it takes for
this event to continue and I probably
shouldn't make comments in between my
motion, for the unbudgeted third party
costs and third party costs up to 12
thousand 500 to be paid by the north
manhattan beach bid.
>> do you want me to go first so you
can go last?
>> no, I'll go now.
is it possible to have the two the
business sections work together?
I mean, it really became -- you know,
what councilmember howorth said about
the holiday open house, that is a
super charged event.
we got the same thing, we got the road
closures, we have a great holiday
spirit, there's just a lot of
activities, families, things like
that, if we can get the two presidents
together and see if the they can help
each other out.
I don't think there's overt
competition among them.
they're all serving the same purpose.
I think the downtown has to understand
that people come from north manhattan
beach and come into downtown and spend
money.
I'm not going say can we track it, but
maybe just make it more of a -- I
don't want to say a kumbaya
movement but sit around the table and
I'm in favor of approving the 9
thousand dollars, going forward, I
think we have to look at it as a
homogeneous enterprise, it's all
business in manhattan beach.
if one area has to help the other, I
think it's for the good of everybody,
that's my thought there.
>> should we call for the question?
>> can I go now?
>> sorry.
>> thank you, mayor, real quick.
and I agree with the mayor pro tem as
she indicated.
it's a lot safer with the streets
closed.
I was hesitant to take my kids prior
to the streets being closed and it's
no-brainer, you have santa on one side
and the cot tan -- cotton candy on the
other side and you have to cross
highland.
I do feel supporting the closure of the
streets and this is an immediate
infusion during the holiday season to
north end businesses.
if each person down head count, I
think I heard 3 thousand dollars, if
you take $50, it's 150 thousand
dollars in revenue for those small
businesses for one night, simple math,
it could be less, could be more, being
conservative as I always typically
have been, so I do support the road
closure.
I think it's important for public
safety, you heard from the fire chief,
the police chief, it makes no sense to
have an event given that public
safety.
I think there was a little train, we
couldn't get on the train, there was
so many people in line, I support the
safety aspect and the road closure.
>> cows member lesser?
>> I'm trying to get to yes.
fiscally I'm skeptical, I
have huge problems, I look at the last
item we considered in bifurcating the
whole larger question of subsidies.
one of the evaluation criteria is
community benefit.
we have to put some numbers to that
and that's what we're doing here, I'm
hearing the comment about public
safety.
I'm troubled by the overall number but
I'm also hearing that I takes 9
thousand more.
I will be off council but I would
encourage those that follow to really
be realistic about our overall spend
on these types of programs.
I'm willing to support it with regard
to the public safety comments and the
public and community benefit angle but
I think we need to be honest and look
at the totality of what we're spending
and really push the ideal particularly
with this event on the need for more
support from sponsors as the mayor
indicated.
>> no more speakers.
we have a motion to accept by mayor
pro tem tarnay and seconded by
councilmember howorth.
to approve and appropriate the 9
thousand dollars.
>> yes, that's my motion.
>> keep looking for sponsors.
>> I think we can all help.
>> motion passes 5-0.
>> okay.
>> moving on to -- okay.
alright, your final decision I think
for the night concerns the holiday
fireworks.
the chamber of commerce has assumed
responsibility for organizing they
vent.
we appreciate their willingness to
take on this longstanding community
tradition.
the request before council from the
the chamber is for the city to
subsidize all city service expenses
and all third party costs ordered by
the city.
for 2026, the estimated value of city
staff and services is approximately
187 thousand dollars, third party
public safety expenses are estimated
at approximately 73 thousand dollars
with another about 8 thousand dollars
in other third party expenses.
and those other third party expenses
are like bicycle fencing and porta
potties, the chamber's direct expenses
are approximately 180 thousand dollars
bringing the total cost to supporting
the event the to approximately 439
thousand dollars.
I think it's important to distinguish
between those amounts, the chamber is
responsible for the 180 thousand
dollars in event production expenses.
the question before the council
tonight is how much of the city
services and third party expenses
associated with supporting the event
should be subsidized by the city.
historically the council has approved
a 10 thousand cap specifically for
third party public safety expenses for
the fireworks so meridian barriers and
csc staffing.
the chamber has indicated that given
the financial and administrative
responsible associated with producing
the event, continued management may
not be feasible if it's required to
absorb any third party costs, as
staff has identified three options, is
asking you to make the decision,
option 1 would subsidize all city
services and all third party costs
with the city responsible for the full
cost of the event.
option 2 would subsidize city services
and maintain the existing 10
thousand dollar cap specifically for
third party public safety costs.
the chamber would be responsible for
any additional party costs.
option 3 would subsidize city services
and establish a 10 thousand cap for
all third party costs rather than
limiting that subsidy to public safety
aspens and staff is requesting council
direction regarding the appropriate
subsidy for the holiday fireworks.
and that concludes my presentation.
>> okay.
any questions?
>> mr. Mayor, I'm sorry, once again,
the budget packet that councilmen
received is not tracking the
presentation, it did not
include the total numbers.
linda, can you go back to the slide
in terms of what the costs have
already been allocated and what the
additional ask is.
>> we are not asking you to a
appropriate any additional funds for
the 2026 event, we're simply asking
what we are supposed to be billing the
chamber at the end of the event, so
even though again it's the same
explanation as with the holiday stroll
for the estimated expenses, we're not
changing staffing levels in
any way, it is expected the budget
will absorb any excess from last year
to this year because of the way we
budgeted, so we've already put in our
budget all of the third party expenses
to pay the third party expenses, the
question is whether we're going to
bill anything back to the chamber of
those third party expenses so we can
do 10 thousand total or 10 thousand
plus other third party expenses is the
question before you nor -- now or
none.
>> these third party expenses were
previously held or underwritten by the
prior promoter of the event?
>> so, back --
>> help me understand.
>> so, a few years back when pete
moffet was organizing the event, he
had this side agreement with a sponsor
and the sponsor with send us money, we
would cover those other third party
expenses with that money.
but then he passed away and that
responsibility went to his son who was
then -- we were so appreciative still
organizing the event and doing his
best but that agreement kind of
slipped through the cracks and so now
according to the special events policy, with
all third party expenses being the
responsibility of the organizer, we
had -- city council did approve a 10
thousand dollar cap but that was only
for public safety expenses and while
you could argue that bicycle fencing
and porta potties would be for
the public safety, they were not was
originally intended in that cap.
>> thank you.
>> okay, councilmember howorth?
>> I mean, it's clear as mud and
that's okay.
so, again, I'm just trying to let us
be or get us to be really transparent,
right.
so, it's a total cost of the event no
matter who's paying for it, it is an
amazing event that we all love, total
cost 439 thousand 107?
>> yes.
>> okay.
I mean, so, that's not what's not
covered by sponsorship, that is the
total cost to do it?
>> I was given the 180 thousand dollar
number by the chamber, that's what
they were required to cover last year
to make the event happen.
>> 180 plus 259, 107 equals 439107.
one of the options is to just
approve a subsidy meaning we would
absorb the 259 thousand dollars, and
you're saying that's already budgeted?
>> correct.
we do staff, because this is a known
event, we do budget for the staffing
for this event.
we also budget for the third party
expenses because we know it's coming.
>> got it.
>> okay.
so, again, that's important, it's
important just if people are watching
a home that we are not needing to --
this is not a budget adjustment.
>> no.
>> it is a philosophical discussion,
okay.
alright, thank you.
>> so, I have a question.
we appreciate the promoter in the past
because they made it what this event
is, it's a regional attraction, we
know it because we -- what's the
attendance, 50 thousand plus.
>> 40, 20?
>> she says 20 thousand.
I thought it was more in the past.
I have been told up to 40 in some
years, but according to placer, 20 thousand.
>> so, the promoter was responsible
for getting sponsors a that paid for
these expenses.
>> correct.
>> the promoter is no longer involved
so that leaves a gap of trying to get
sponsors to pay these expenses.
>> that's what the chamber has taken
over.
>> yeah, but the chamber needs to find
those same sponsors, right?
no?
I'm seeing --
>> this is sounding much more
complicated than it is, good news on
this one because I think this one will
be easier.
there seems to have some confusion
about this one line item and it's the
8 thousand 164 dollars that's bicycle
fencing has goes up and down manhattan
beach boulevard that -- it separates
people from when an emergency vehicle
has to go there.
I was told that at one point chevron
paid for that and I went back to
chevron, we've never paid for that, so
I don't know why that was.
it was not in the budget that I
received from the moffits so it's the
mysterious 8164, I'm raising the 180
thousand dollars to make this show
happen, all I'm asking is the 8164
dollars that's a bicycle fencing, the
10 thousand dollars, I didn't budget
for last year, I would love it if you
could cover that because that wasn't
in pete's budget for me to cover so I
didn't have that and I would end up
losing money on the fireworks at this
point but I will have to find another
10 thousand dollars this year, I
understand that in sponsorships, but I
appreciate that you guys are saying go
out and get sponsorships.
if you knew how hard it is so come up
with 180 thousand dollars worth of
sponsorships, it is not an easy thing.
we started it this week and I have
already had multiple saying I'm
pulling back on my sponsorship from
last year, and I'm like, great, that
means I have to find more.
this is one of those events when I say
to somebody that the chamber is
producing the event, I thought that
was a city event.
everyone thinkers so.
I'm the third party of this is that
scenario.
we love it as much aser everybody else
does, pete did it as a labor of love.
he didn't make any money off of it,
tom took it over as his son and he
said I can't do this because -- he was
making like 7 thousand dollars on the
event and he says it takes six months
to produce it, it doesn't make sense
for me to do it.
can we find somebody else to do it.
we took it on because it's a beloved
event but with the amount of money
-- the amount of time and the amount
of money that it takes to raise it, if
I now have to cover the ten thousand
dollars for the public safety piece of
it plus the 8100 for those fences, I'm
like I'm in the hole and I just can't
do that and so that's -- I will budget
for the ten thousand for next year if
you can cover the bicycle fences for
the 8 thousand, that's all I'm asking
for is an additional 8 thousand.
>> can I ask a question.
is there an option to scale it down?
I mean, it's quite a show.
I mean, I'm going to be the boomer in
the room, we just took our kids down,
we sang there's one guitarist, john
brown or something, has was on the
stage, we sang christmas carols and
then the fireworks went off.
now it's a production which is fine, I
understand tastes change and things
like that, can we reduce that?
>> I think that that would have to be
something that maybe the city wants to
propose to the residents because
that's the expectation now and so it's
not -- I mean, we're not making the
show longer, bigger, I haven't added
any new entertainment.
this is just the continuing cost to do
what it is.
so, I think if you wanted to change
that, that -- I mean --
>> it doesn't have to go to that
extreme, but I'm not sure the cost
structure and what the entertainment
all is.
everybody's there for the fireworks.
>> well, I mean, I'll give you a couple
of things off the top of my head, it
costs 15 thousand dollars to do the
environmental cleanup, about 14
thousand dollars for the over water
permit, the sound system that goes up
and down because it's choreographed to
music that goes all the way up to
manhattan beach boulevard, that's a
separate provider.
I had no idea what it all was either.
it's not like we're doing anything
like I'm going, let's add something
huge and new, I am really just
sustaining what is there and when -- I
mean, I know it's a lot more expensive
than it used to be.
every year it's getting more expensive
and it's more sponsorship, so, the
bicycle fencing was a requirement of
pd for public safety and so I'm just
asking for that 8 thousand dollars to
be considered part of the public safety
expense instead of a third party
expense to us, that's it.
>> that's not 439.
okay.
councilmember charelian?
>> thank you.
thank you, mr. Mayor.
and, jill, thank you for clarifying
that you only needed 8 thousand and
some change for the -- where are you?
for the -- just if for the iconic
manhattan beach fireworks, this is
beyond a legacy event, 8200 dollars
for the amount of smiling faces it
brings, I'm okay with that.
>> any other comments?
>> you need public comments.
>> yeah, public comments.
so, anybody here in chambers?
no?
online?
>> no.
>> my dog would like to comment.
my dog hates the fireworks and says I
cannot vote for this.
>> give up a bone.
okay, so seeing none, closing public
comments.
council discussion?
comments, anybody ?
councilmember lesser?
>> I will be supporting this motion, I
appreciate jill, I appreciate you for all
the work you're putting into this
production and more importantly just
clarifying it.
that's been part of my objection to
this.
I am grateful to city staff to bring
this -- all these matters to council
for greater transparency to the our
public as to what these events are
costing and for future councils going
forward, I think this needs to be part
of the budgetary process to better
understand what these costs are,
burden rates as well as the out of
pocket costs because the community
wants these events.
these are a big part of who we are and
what our community has come to expect
along with our businesses, so we need
to come up with a way that's
sustainable going forward and we
wouldn't be doing our job unless we
asked these questions and made sure
that the overall costs for all of
these items are something that's
sustainable, so I will be supporting
this.
>> mayor pro tem tarnay?
>> thank you, mr. Mayor.
I think everyone in this room would
agree that this is one of the best
community events our city does.
this and the hometown fair, these are
two huge signature events that is
really -- we talk about public
benefit, our whole community, everyone
goes downtown and to answer -- to
comment on what jill has said about
adding more, I haven't seen the
addition, I have been going for a few
decades now, I have -- haven't seen
the growth of it, I have seen more
people coming because it is such a
great event.
when we started going, you could leave
and start making your way town at 5:00
and still be able to get a spot.
now with social media and the growth
and people knowing more about the
event, people start posting up like at
noon, I think people starting getting
their families down there and it does
greatly impact the business.
people eat, they dine, they shop, so
it brings a lot of activities into our
downtown area so it's great for the
businesses and great for the residents
and seeing what is being asked, that 8164
dollars, I think it's an easy number to
justify because it does come down to
public safety, we have thousands of
people down there, 20 thousand people,
and this is something that our pd is
asking for, so I will be approving
that amount as well.
>> great.
so, I appreciate the clarity, clearing
up the numbers and alike.
I'm still going to say, you know, I
think people would come even if the
show surrounding it was kind of
reduced a little bit and I don't know
how all these things work, whether or
not you can just get a lower scale
type of show because the show is the
fireworks and the sound, I can
understand that, but we lived without
that sound for 20 years beforehand
because again, it was just the
fireworks you were looking at.
on our block, we
gathered up our resources and our
blankets and a couple of the parents
went down there to save the space, it
was a great feeling of community, we
did go shopping and did use the
restaurants so I think iet assist --
it's a great event and let's keep it
great.
>> my dog hate still hates it.
.
>> if that was the last comment, we
have a motion to accept .by
councilmember charelian and seconded
by mayor pro tem tarnay.
>> thank you, and I think all I need
to say is that we'll approve the
holiday fireworks event and pruned the
subsidy of $8,164.
let me know if you need anything else?
>> can I just clarify, so we're
looking for a decision moving forward
on how we want to approve the subsidy,
so the estimated cost of the subsidy
would be around the 8 thousand but do
we want to keep that ten thousand
dollar cap on only public safety
expenses and still charge the other
public safety expenses which is the 8
thousand something or do we want to
cap the third party expenses at 10
thousand dollars total which includes
the public safe and the porta potties
and the fencing.
>> personally making the motion, I
would like to defer that conversation,
item a, that we approved the process in
evaluating and bring that back to us,
there's a lot of numbers moving aner
and we had to get clarification a few
times so I would hate to make a
decision, that's me, I don't know if
my colleagues feel the same?
>> she wants to ask something.
>> if you don't want to make the
decision for it going forward, then
for the 2026 event, would you like to
the total expenses at 10 thousand
dollars which would be what jill was
explaining or do you want to keep it
at 10 thousand and then we bill for
the other third party expenses?
it's either we charge them 18 thousand
or --
>> you're saying 18 or 10?
>> yes.
>> that's the question.
>> I'm at a loss for words, so
you're not looking just for the --
you're looking for the cap, you're
looking for 18 thousand?
>> yes.
>> 10, sorry, we're looking --
>> a cap of ten thousand.
>> a cap of ten thousand, so the
chamber would pay ten thousand for
third party costs if you approve
number 3.
>> but again all we're on hook for is
the $8,164?
>> well, we would be absorbing that 8
thousand but we are also absorbing a
significant amount of the other public
safety costs, yes, but, yes, we would
be on the hook for the 8 thousand.
>> how do you want that worded?
>> honestly, I'm sorry, I didn't press
my button.
this could be more clear cut.
>> the number 3 option explains the
that we will invoice the chamber for
ten thousand no matter what the third
party costs are.
>> if they're above that, we're still
only invoicing them ten thousand?
>> correct.
>> where did the 18 thousand number
come from.
>> it is the 10 thousand dollar cap on
public safety expenses so we were
going to charge them 10 thousand, and
then the 8 thousand 100 was a separate
third party cost for bicycle fencing
and the porta potties.
>> that's what they're asking for?
because she's trying to raise 180
thousand dollars in sponsorship that's
already allocated and we're saying
the bicycle fencing is the 8164, then
there's public service that we're
going to cap at 10 thousand.
>> yes, that is essentially --
>> it's 18 thousand 164 dollars.
>> now we've been raising 190 thousand
just so you know, if you cap it at 10,
then I go up, that's what I'm offering.
there is one other bill that was for
the fencing and these porta potties
that had never been billed before that
was the 8 thousand and that's what I
said, the 8167, now if that's what it
was billed last year.
if that 8 thousand is more this year,
if it's 9 thousand, then -- am I like
-- you go.
>> how about you define the services
that you want us --
>> I do want to clarify, this is the
importance and this is why this
process is being put in place is so we
will have the ability to have these
agreements in place that clearly
dictate again working with pete and
tom over the years, this was a
separate bill that was paid by the
operator, as things change and
evolve, this was not in a written
document and agreement and that is why
we're having confusion here, moving
forward, we will not have this
confusion.
that is the difference between the 10
thousand and the 18 thousand because
in previous years that additional 8
thousand dollars had been paid by the
operator and again with the transition
of leadership, that no longer was
communicated.
>> I mean, I would -- I'm sorry, let
me ypres the button.
>> yes.
>> I'm not sure I understand it yet
but I am trying to make it so that the
chamber doesn't have to raise 190
thousand, I am trying to
say, if the number for this -- I hear
what you're saying, you're trying to
create a process moving forward.
if the number for this year is 18
thousand, okay, so be it, I'm fine
with that.
I think everybody was thinking it was
8 thousand, so we all have to consider
this, but these options that the cap
is very -- it confuses us, so option
1, approve a subsidy for all city
services and all third party costs.
so, that means we pay for everything.
is that the 18 thousand?
>> yes.
>> number 2, approve -- I'm sorry, do
you guys mind if I read this out loud
because I'm just sorting it out.
approve a subsidy for city services
and continue with the reproved 10
thousand cap on third party public
safety costs.
so, that means what, what does that --
so, the subsidy for city services and
do we pay above the -- do we charge
her 10 thousand and we pay above?
>> yes.
>> for the barriers and the security
costs and --
>> she say's say -- she's saying
please don't charge me 10 thousand.
number 3 is approve a subsidy for city
service --
>> so number 2 is we charge the 10
thousand for the third party public
safety expenses plus the other third
party costs, so that would be the
chamber paying 18 thousand, number 2.
number 3 would be the chamber paying
10 thousand and number --
>> so, 2 is having the chamber pay 18
thousand, 3 is having the chamber pay
10 and us pay 8.
>> yes, number 3 is the chamber
pays 10 and we pay all other
expenses.
>> okay.
so, the chamber -- it's either the
chamber pays the extra, this thing
that -- what happened is everyone
figured out wait, no one's paid this
bill because pete was doing it this
way, chevron was doing it this way so
now we have to figure out who is
paying.
>> yeah.
>> to be honest, part of it probably
was that initially there weren't porta
potty, they were probably going into
people's restaurants and shops and
asking for bathrooms so that's par of
it is that and the other part is the
bike fence.
>> number one is the city's going to
pay 18 thousand, number 2 is the
chamber is going to pay it.
number 3, we pay 8 and the chamber
pays 10, those are our choices here.
>> and just so you know, has ten
thousand because it was nnt the budget
that I got means I will be raising 190
now, right.
so I'm doing my share to raise that
extra ten thousand this year starting
this year too.
>> okay.
so what's your motion?
>> my motion is to defer my motion to
council mayor pro tem tarnay.
>> no.
>> what are the options again?
>> number 3.
>> city pays 8, chamber pays 10.
>> yes.
cap.
>> yeah, sure.
>> is that appropriate?
number 3, option number 3, approve a
subsidy for the city services and a
ten thousand dollar cap for all third
party costs and that will be just for
the 2026 event until we iron this out
later, correct?
that's it, that's my motion.
>> okay, so, we have a motion by
councilmember charelian, still
seconding it?
>> yes.
>> okay.
I mean, I'll second it if
you want me to.
>> I've been ready to second.
>> and seconded by mayor pro tem
tarnay.
we have the mote.
>> motion passes 5-0.
>> well, that was easy.
>> thank you.
>> it would help to have everybody
literally be on the same page.
>> thank you, linda.
>> thank you.
>> okay.
>> happy birthday, come to council.
let us turn you around.
>> there's one more slide about legacy
status to be requested.
we're finished with this item?
>> we're done.
>> it's clear as mud.
>> alright, well, then let's get into
bringing this baby home.
so, l, city council requests and
reports including ab 1234 reports.
any?
no?
future -- m, future agenda items?
>> yeah.
I pressed my button to speak but it
died, it went away.
>> councilmember?
>> thank you.
I would like to put on the business
license tax, the thing that kelly
asked for that we keep making progress
and having staff -- I know that --
well, I would like to ask the city
manager, what's going on with that, is
there anything we need to do to bring
it back and forward.
>> thank you for the question,
councilmember.
the staffer's plan was to continue to
work with the various interest groups
and bring back the throughout the
course of the next year smaller
discussions about the business license
tax and we'll piece it all together at
the end of the year.
our plan unless council directs us to
go in a different direction was to
continue to work on this and bring
back bits and pieces to the council so
it's easier to digest and we go out
and essentially have those discussions
with those specific groups and then
come back and share the information
with the council and continue to keep
this moving forward while we make
progress over the course of the next
year.
>> I think if -- it's your future
item, I do agree and I like the actual
future item but a future item to come
back and give us a foundation of what
you just said and allow us an
opportunity to provide some direction
and input if we're going out and doing
these exercises of multiple working
groups.
I would love to get some -- I would --
that's something you -- I would second
that.
>> I would say that.
it doesn't have to come back to us as
a impish here's what we propose
because --
>> allow us to input.
>> yeah.
>> and it doesn't have to be --
obviously we need a third vote.
>> right, and we're not saying
-- it's going to take a lot of work,
yeah.
>> so, you both have two votes?
>> it's a two step process, it would
have to come back next time.
>> I understand, but you're making
those two votes?
>> yes.
>> I just want the clarify that.
>> clear as mud.
>> with that?
okay.
>> I have a future item.
you know, we had resident stuff on
camera come up at public comment, it
seemed like hours ago, but again maybe
the city manager helped, I know we
have a lot of existing information on
our website and I heard, you know,
transparency, rhna dashboard, give
city council an update every six months
so the public can kind of hear
through our meetings with what's going
on out there.
at least as frequently as we can that
it doesn't hinder too much strain on
staff, but can you help articulate
what that would look like as far as
what mr. Kampe said?
>> yes, I think mr. Kampe mentioned
that we come back annually and provide
a report to the council with a clear
cut chart of what our rhna obligations
are and how much for each category we
have met thus far for the whole cycle,
right, and the community development
director does have some ideas on what
additional charts to post on the
existing website, so we have
internally been discussing those
options already so it's up to the
council if the council would like us
to come back more than once a year, I
will say that that once a year update
that we prepare does take a
significant amount of work because
we're essentially having to go through
all of our building permits to
understand what housing has been
produced and in what categories, so it
does take staff resources, if we were to
do that twice a year but it's up to
the council to let us know.
in terms of making the website
clearer, we're already discussing
thousand do that-- how to do that and
how to improve it.
>> my request would be as future item
is maybe bring it once a year, we get
a lot of input from staff, from our
constituents and the residents which
are the same, just is the city doing
enough and just I think this is one of
those times we can just bring it and
be a presentation and do it once a
year.
>> we do that already.
>> so I'm a second for that.
>> when?
>> we do that prior to I think it's
april 4 of every year, we come to the
council, it's -- we make a
presentation to the council on where
we are in regards to our rhna
obligations for this current cycle and
we break that down by each income
category because that's really what
matters at the end of the day and what
hcd is looking at.
we talk to the council about all of
the progress we've made on the housing
programs for this particular cycle,
the numbers, the numbers of permits
that are issued, number of adu's
that have been built, all of that gets
compiled into the annual progress
report which is state mandated.
>> I was going to ask if it was state
mandated.
>> what you're saying is it comes
every april.
>> or before april because we have to
submit it I think it's by april 4.
>> I'll withdraw --
>> then I'll make it, I think it needs
to be twice a year.
this is as I mentioned in my mayor
rotation speech, it's the existential
threat as to what is manhattan beach.
we packed the joslyn center about this.
when was that, back earlier this year
because people didn't know about it
and now a lot of people are waking .up
and they're going to be woken up more
because they're going to see the
construction start and so it is going
to be vital we communicate with them
on a more frequent basis than once per
year.
>> maybe one of the times could be
less technical because the report that
you're providing prior to april is
very specific for the state.
>> it's very labor intensive.
>> but this other thing could be less
technical.
>> for reference --
>> to the point, it's the type of
buildings.
if you're going to hit a 20% mark with
a density bonus, it's going to take
3500 units to reach 774 and that's
over 10 thousand of our city.
>> may I ask a question?
>> that's going to be to be in density
>> as we consider whether there's a
second to advance this, but would
presenting it twice year, would those
numbers typically change?
I know it's very labor intensive, so
does it move the needle, is it a huge
change you would see between if you
report it in march and then you report
it again six months later?
>> it depends how many projects are
being built in that timeframe or how
many building perms are being issued
every year.
it's a little bit different.
the you look at the progress reports
for the last -- since the initiation
of this current sixth cycle, what you
are going to see is not that much
movement on the affordable units which
really is what we're trying to see
here.
as typical for most cities, you're
going to see that number for the
above market rate units continue to
increase because that's where we see
the most growth but what does h -- is
hcd really looking at?
>> if I may, mr. Mayor?
>> the if I can make just one comment
about defending the twice a year, that
people wake up to it, if you have the
ability to talk to them twice a year
instead of having them to wait.
they can make decisions about what to
do about it.
we have an example of a home that was
sold adjacent, they lost 400 thousand
dollars in market value of that home,
these are big questions our residents
want answered so as they go along,
they're learning about it, so I think
we should have the availability of as
many meetings as possible to get that
information.
>> if I may, I think we previously
asked for an agenda item to be added,
a future agenda item of a housing task
force because I think what we're
looking for isn't just the reporting
of information but what can we do with
that information and how can our city
work best to -- because I think I'm
hearing what you're saying is that the
amount of building that will be
required doesn't address the actual
problem of affordability, right,
because in order to even meet those
numbers, so I think the reporting of
it is one thing which annually sounds
to me like it suffices but we have the
second ability to see what our city
can do to act upon those numbers and
help us guide our policy on what we
can even do to address that, so it's a
two segmented, you know, area that I
say one is the reporting which I think
is very helpful and stefan e-mailed
and you say we saw the numbers and
it is very helpful and that's one
component of it.
the other is the what do we do about
it which is the task force which I
think we already have as a future
agenda item.
>> it's scheduled for october.
>> the task force, what are they
going to do, appeal to
sacramento.
>> we explore what options we can do
and whether or not we communicate the
information which is what you're
asking and getting the information out
there, the task force, one of the
functions may be, hey, how do we
communicate this to let our residents
know, so it inverses them more
flexibility and it's more nimble than
just a city reporting requirement.
so I just implore you to consider that
as a vehicle for doing what we need to
do versus having staff dedicate a lot
of time to report out numbers.
we can get those numbers and then
with the task force actually work with
our residents and work with our
public officials to do something with
those numbers.
>> councilmember charelian?
>> thank you, mayor, and, you know, I
brought up this item because it's on
everybody's mind, it's the number one
thing that is happening in this city
and the town, it used to be streets,
[inaudible] budgeters and now it's
affordable housing and everything else
that goes along with it.
I'm for I know it's a complex process
to get the annual report done, but
mayor, would you be okay with less of
a -- to do it twice a year but less of
a comprehensive report.
>> yes, just so people can understand
what's happening.
>> I think task force is important but
we have not defined it.
we are already behind because the
public wants to know and if they're
looking for us -- if this is something
to do to be further transparent and
give them more information, 180 days
instead of 360 days, maybe it's a
lesser approach versus a technical, an
annual responsibility that we have but
if you're okay with a --
>> yeah, less technical is fine.
>> that's our responsibility.
>> it's getting the word out, why this
nine story monstrosity is going to be
going up next to your house.
>> you have the --
>> we have a second, yeah.
>> who's the second?
>> [inaudible].
>> okay.
>> I think we want the same thing.
>> I think we have to find a way how
to best move it forward, okay.
>> okay, and I got a city manager
report.
>> sorry, mr. Mayor, item number
17, I think we need a third vote.
>> that's right, I'm sorry, 17,
consideration of a request by
councilmember lesser and councilmember
howorth to discuss potential code
amendments to allow a farmers' market
--
>> third.
>> there's your third.
okay, so noted.
n, city manager report?
>> thank you, mayor, I would like to
remind the council and the public that we
are going dark on september 1 so there
will be no council meeting until
september 15th.
>> great.
>> thank you.
>> city attorney report?
>> nothing report this evening.
>> okay, thank you.
and then, I don't know, it says here
closed session for q.
>> only if needed.
>> no, it was not needed so there is
no action needed.
>> so, r, adjournment to -- we will be
adjourned until september 15th at 4