1 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,560 Uh, Mr. Mayor, we need to announce that 2 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,639 since Mr. Powers is here, life can go 3 00:06:26,639 --> 00:13:13,190 on. 4 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:22,310 He's 5 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,320 actually 6 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,150 >> All right. Good evening everybody. It is 7 00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:26,160 » All right. Good evening everybody. It is 8 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,160 6:32. We'll go ahead and get this 9 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,360 started. Um I'm going to let Fris uh do 10 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,320 some opening remarks since uh many of 11 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:35,519 y'all are just meeting him for the first 12 00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:37,200 time so he can kind of just give himself 13 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,360 an introduction and then uh Mr. Hollow 14 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,000 will take it over. 15 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,240 looking around the room. Uh I think I've 16 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,480 met most of you. My name is Fabric 17 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,320 Cababona. I have the pleasure of serving 18 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,360 as city manager. Third day on the job 19 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,720 now. Um so it's certainly a pleasure to 20 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,560 be here among you and be able to serve 21 00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:59,440 this community. Um like to take this 22 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,920 opportunity to just thank city council 23 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,839 for the opportunity for entrusting me 24 00:14:03,839 --> 00:14:06,079 with this responsibility and I look 25 00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:07,920 forward to uh working with each each and 26 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,320 every one of you. If you have any 27 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,000 questions, if you need to visit with me, 28 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,120 please uh feel free to come see me. 29 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,389 >> Thank you. 30 00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:16,399 » Thank you. 31 00:14:16,399 --> 00:14:23,590 >> Thanks, sir. Mr. 32 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,760 » So, 33 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:27,600 Freeze is the one that asked me to kind 34 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,000 of do this. So, apparently he uh learned 35 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,079 to be just as bossy as Bev. So, that's 36 00:14:32,079 --> 00:14:34,800 why we're uh here tonight. But I was 37 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,360 kind of asked to give um a little and 38 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:38,800 some of y'all have probably already had 39 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,440 this at least on counsel with your oh 40 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,600 for reason I go way back so it's okay. 41 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,199 Um during the uh first 90 days that you 42 00:14:47,199 --> 00:14:48,480 take counsel you're supposed to take the 43 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,600 the seminar. Well th this is a certified 44 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,440 presentation that I got from the AG. 45 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:54,959 They certified on it. It's a little bit 46 00:14:54,959 --> 00:14:58,079 it's a little bit uh dated. It's from I 47 00:14:58,079 --> 00:15:01,680 think maybe 21 or 22, but I've updated 48 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:02,880 spent the last couple days kind of 49 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,120 updating it on some some of the lot like 50 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,680 the agenda postings for example. Um I 51 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,279 think I caught most of them, but maybe 52 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:10,880 not. But it's it's pretty much up to 53 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,959 date. So, what I'm going to do is just 54 00:15:12,959 --> 00:15:15,600 kind of go through generally speaking 55 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,560 the um the Open Meetings Act, what it 56 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,600 is, what it's for, um what are some some 57 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,760 tricks and traps about the Open Meetings 58 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,399 Act because there there can be um you 59 00:15:26,399 --> 00:15:28,720 know, the law is is easy to write and 60 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,639 it's easy to read at times, but it's not 61 00:15:30,639 --> 00:15:32,639 always easy to implement. That's why we 62 00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:34,480 have case law because sometimes it's 63 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,959 difficult to implement the case law. And 64 00:15:36,959 --> 00:15:38,480 I don't know that I've met every one of 65 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,680 y'all, but I am Michael Alla, the city 66 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,399 attorney. Um, and so it's nice to meet 67 00:15:44,399 --> 00:15:46,240 the gentleman from the PND that I 68 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,199 haven't met. Um, and so at any time 69 00:15:49,199 --> 00:15:51,680 y'all have questions, just really just 70 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,199 say, "Hey, interrupt. It's not a 71 00:15:53,199 --> 00:15:54,959 problem." Just say, "Hey, got a 72 00:15:54,959 --> 00:15:56,639 question." And that's what we'll take 73 00:15:56,639 --> 00:16:00,000 and and uh I'm happy to answer that. So, 74 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,320 uh, number two there, Angela. 75 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:05,839 Yeah. just make sure Angel's awake. So, 76 00:16:05,839 --> 00:16:08,720 I'll just call out the numbers. So, this 77 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,399 is kind of what we're going to do, who 78 00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:12,079 it applies to, you know, what's a 79 00:16:12,079 --> 00:16:14,800 quorum, you know, what what is like a 80 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,560 meeting and so all that kind of stuff 81 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,680 because there are are again um they give 82 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,759 you a definition, but sometimes how it 83 00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:24,320 plays out, you may or may not realize it 84 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,639 because there's a lot in the law that 85 00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:31,839 you can step into unintentionally. Now, 86 00:16:31,839 --> 00:16:34,880 that used to protect you a lot. You had 87 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,720 to be knowingly in violation of the Open 88 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,839 Meetings Act. Um, but now they change. 89 00:16:41,839 --> 00:16:43,680 It's still a class B misdemeanor, which 90 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,600 is, you know, up to six months in in 91 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,399 jail. $2,000 fine. That's the max. Uh, 92 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:50,639 but it is now they've taken out that 93 00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:54,000 knowledge requirement. It is if you do 94 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,880 it and it's a quorum and you're doing it 95 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,759 without the That's it. You're Now, 96 00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:03,120 here's the thing, too. from a I always 97 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,360 like to give some practical aspect to 98 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:07,199 whenever I make presentations and not 99 00:17:07,199 --> 00:17:09,360 just go and let y'all think that's what 100 00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:12,240 happens in real life because y'all from 101 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,039 this particular council um they're all 102 00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:17,280 always asking questions as a whole uh 103 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:18,959 some more so than others not singling 104 00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:20,959 out Mr. powers or anything, but this 105 00:17:20,959 --> 00:17:22,880 particular council always asks questions 106 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,880 and they want to know. But I also want 107 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:26,640 to provide you some practical 108 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,520 application. As y'all are aware, because 109 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,679 you're alive for more than five minutes, 110 00:17:31,679 --> 00:17:34,720 life is full of politics. DAS do not 111 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,360 like to get involved in he said, she 112 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:39,280 said, oh, they violated the open 113 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,679 meetings act. they they might dip their 114 00:17:41,679 --> 00:17:43,600 toe in the in the water to look like 115 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,160 they're doing this or whatnot, but the 116 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,559 typical general normal average DA does 117 00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:50,720 not like to get involved in this. So, 118 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,200 what I want to say is if you're sitting 119 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,880 there and you feel like, "Oh crap, I 120 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:56,080 think I may have done it. I didn't mean 121 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,559 to do it." I don't want you to worry. 122 00:17:58,559 --> 00:18:00,320 Now, on the other hand, I have to 123 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,080 balance that. I don't want you to go, 124 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,799 "Well, DA's not going to give crap. Why 125 00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:07,760 Why should I?" No. No. that's not 126 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,080 you've got series of violations over 127 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,200 time that could be an issue. So, I'm 128 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,440 going to try and drop in some practical 129 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,160 application of all of this stuff as well 130 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:19,760 as just telling you, okay, this is what 131 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,600 it is and this is what it means. And 132 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,280 again, if y'all need some of that 133 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,919 practical application, hey, got a 134 00:18:25,919 --> 00:18:28,160 question? Hey, got a comment? Hey, got a 135 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,880 hypothetical, whatever, just ask me. 136 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,029 Three, please. 137 00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:36,559 Okay. So, it's been around as you can 138 00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:38,160 see. I mean, I'm not going to 139 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,640 necessarily read it, but it's really 140 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,919 important to look at uh Cornin wasn't 141 00:18:43,919 --> 00:18:45,600 too bad for a guy that started out as a 142 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:46,960 little bit of a liberal DA down in 143 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,520 Austin. I don't think he's he's too bad 144 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,760 of a guy. He has led us some some good 145 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,360 things. I I really want to stress 146 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:57,679 the general rule because everything that 147 00:18:57,679 --> 00:19:00,160 we're going to talk about today 148 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,559 falls under that umbrella. And it is 149 00:19:04,559 --> 00:19:08,720 very important to remember just in the 150 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,760 PIA there's some carryover. 151 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,840 Everything is public knowledge. 152 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,919 Everything should be available to the 153 00:19:15,919 --> 00:19:18,640 public. The reason that we can go into 154 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,520 executive session there are exceptions 155 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,880 to that general rule. Sometimes people 156 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,360 forget about the general rule and they 157 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,039 just quickly run into executive session. 158 00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:31,440 I'm like, okay, remember the general 159 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,880 rule is everything's got to be public. 160 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,640 You have to find the exception to go. 161 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,000 You can't just go in exact session 162 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,840 because you feel like it. Okay. So, 163 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,360 that's what I'm trying to stress about. 164 00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:42,480 PIA is the same thing. The general rule 165 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,559 is every single bit of piece of 166 00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:46,880 information that is possessed by the 167 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,720 city 168 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,440 that is open to the public. That is open 169 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,480 to the public. Now, I have been saying 170 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,919 for a number of years that there are 171 00:19:57,919 --> 00:19:59,280 some cities out there with 172 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,120 administrators, and this is a good good 173 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:03,360 for so at least knows how I feel about 174 00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:06,000 it, that I'll give you a great example. 175 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,120 A few years ago, a council member um not 176 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:11,520 that council members ever want to know 177 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,600 more than they need to know, but this 178 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,760 particular council member wanted to know 179 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,480 all of the police vehicles. Like, I need 180 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:19,760 I I need to know where they are, what 181 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,360 their number like, but okay. Why they 182 00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:24,000 need to know? Doesn't matter. Okay. I 183 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,160 said, "Look, y'all need to give this 184 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,760 council member that information. Just 185 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,799 they're they're elected by the people. 186 00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:34,799 They have more of a right to that 187 00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:37,039 information than anybody that works at 188 00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:39,360 city hall than any employee because 189 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:41,760 they're the only six people in y'all's 190 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,080 case, seven only people that were 191 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,159 elected by the public." I said, "You I 192 00:20:46,159 --> 00:20:47,120 don't care that we've got some 193 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:49,039 undercover vehicle." Now, maybe go to 194 00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:50,960 that council member and explain to them 195 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,880 the situation and say, "Hey, you know 196 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,799 what? Maybe that's not a good idea that 197 00:20:54,799 --> 00:20:56,320 we don't want to let that out there." 198 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,080 yada yada yada. But I'm not going to sit 199 00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:59,440 there and say that you can keep that 200 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,039 from a council member. Now, the 201 00:21:01,039 --> 00:21:03,200 legislature finally caught up with me. I 202 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,080 think it was House Bill 48041 maybe 203 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,880 something. It's entitled special right 204 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,200 of access. So now they have codified um 205 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,880 specifically that members of the 206 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,280 governing body have a special right of 207 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,919 access to any and all information. Now I 208 00:21:21,919 --> 00:21:23,679 that doesn't always make me popular with 209 00:21:23,679 --> 00:21:25,039 staff but that's something I've been 210 00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:27,440 saying for years because I look at the 211 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,240 general the way the law is phrased the 212 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,159 big umbrella and then apply logic which 213 00:21:34,159 --> 00:21:35,919 that is probably part of my problem when 214 00:21:35,919 --> 00:21:37,440 I'm talking with some people but I take 215 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,679 that big umbrella and I apply the logic 216 00:21:39,679 --> 00:21:41,039 and I'm like well wait a minute they're 217 00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:43,520 the only people elected 218 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,679 by the people they should be able to see 219 00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:47,039 what are they they're also making all 220 00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:49,039 the decisions that affect the city 221 00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:51,039 because even though you Mr. city 222 00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:53,360 administrator, uh you fire chief, police 223 00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:55,600 chief, you know, whatever y'all are 224 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,200 making decision, it is because they have 225 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,120 given you direction to do that. You're 226 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:01,840 carrying out you're the executive uh 227 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,280 function branch carrying out the what 228 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:06,559 has been directed to you by the 229 00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:09,039 legislature. So that's I want to stress 230 00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:11,120 and make sure that we all understand the 231 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:13,039 big overarching umbrella that we're 232 00:22:13,039 --> 00:22:14,559 dealing with when you're talking about 233 00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:16,799 the open meetings act. Again, also the 234 00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:19,840 PIA. Uh, Angela, please don't take it as 235 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,039 insulting. I'm just going to call out 236 00:22:21,039 --> 00:22:22,080 numbers when I'm ready to go to the next 237 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,159 one. Is that okay? Uh, yes. Because 238 00:22:24,159 --> 00:22:26,640 Angela is wonderfully terrific and also 239 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,240 scares me a little bit. Four. 240 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,000 All right. 241 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,240 Who is subject to the Open Meetings Act? 242 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:41,669 Anybody want to venture a guess? 243 00:22:41,679 --> 00:22:43,840 » Yes. The guy who wears the hat with a 244 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,280 Boy Scout troop that has a football 245 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,000 team. Yes, that is right. the the public 246 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,840 officials are the ones subject to the 247 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,960 open meetings act. No one else can be uh 248 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,720 is subject to it because they have been 249 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,799 elected by people. They're not they're 250 00:22:56,799 --> 00:22:59,760 not appointed by the PNZ. Now, here's 251 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,080 what's interesting. If a city wants to, 252 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,400 and I never advise this, but a if you've 253 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,400 got a board that is purely advisory, not 254 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,159 and I I don't think P&Z falls because I 255 00:23:10,159 --> 00:23:12,640 think y'all are quasi um you know, 256 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,480 legislative in a sense because y'all 257 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,480 have more of a specific statutory role 258 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,720 than a lot of other places, but purely 259 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,880 advisory doesn't technically have to 260 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,880 follow the Open Meetings Act. Now, 261 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:26,559 I think it's terrible policy. I think 262 00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:28,000 the policy should be everybody that we 263 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,120 got. We file the open meetings act. But 264 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:34,960 my role is I treat my clients, the 265 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,559 councils, the PNZ as adults. I know of 266 00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:40,400 other city attorneys, give you a great 267 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,120 example, and we'll get into this. I 268 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:44,799 think individual council members and 269 00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:46,960 they and they do what they want. 270 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,600 Horrible idea to talk to developers. 271 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,280 Horrible idea. The mayor's a little 272 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,280 different because that role is a little 273 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,440 unique. terrible, but it's not against 274 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,960 the law. It's not improper. I know city 275 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,600 attorneys that because they see the 276 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,440 difficulties and the ramifications and 277 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,679 and potential negative consequences that 278 00:24:05,679 --> 00:24:08,159 come from that, they have actually told 279 00:24:08,159 --> 00:24:10,320 clients it's against the law and they 280 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,039 can't do it. I know that because some of 281 00:24:13,039 --> 00:24:14,240 these council members from other cities 282 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:15,520 have called me and asked me if that's 283 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,880 the truth. So, my goal and what I will 284 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,559 do is I'm going to tell you what the law 285 00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:22,400 is. Now, well, I'm going to tell you 286 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,640 it's a bad idea to do this or that in my 287 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,520 opinion, but I'm not going to to tell 288 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,679 you something to make my job easier or 289 00:24:29,679 --> 00:24:31,520 to keep everybody safe. I want y'all to 290 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,520 be aware what the law is and know what 291 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,440 you're getting yourselves into and then 292 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,480 y'all make the decisions. So, uh, five, 293 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,960 please. 294 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,840 Um, I do not remember color coding 295 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,720 those. Um, but okay. But anyway, what 296 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,880 what is a governmental body? So we've 297 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,960 got a definition in 5513. 298 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,720 All these things can be considered um uh 299 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,159 governmental bodies. Now the boards and 300 00:24:58,159 --> 00:24:59,679 commissions 301 00:24:59,679 --> 00:25:02,159 not governmental bodies. Does anybody 302 00:25:02,159 --> 00:25:05,440 know why that is? 303 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,559 Who who do what exactly? Yes. They're 304 00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:11,600 appointed. So and they can come and go 305 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,840 at the pleasure of the city council. So 306 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,640 it's important to understand who is and 307 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,600 who is not. Now, I believe that our 308 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,600 ordinances require all of our boards and 309 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,440 commissions to follow the open meetings 310 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:24,880 act. I'd have to go back and look 311 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,240 specifically. Um, so 312 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,480 way I am going to interpret this is 313 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:31,919 because we've said that in our 314 00:25:31,919 --> 00:25:34,159 ordinances, you're a governmental body 315 00:25:34,159 --> 00:25:35,440 because you got to follow all the same 316 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,440 rules as the other governmental bodies. 317 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,919 So, I like that also because it's more 318 00:25:39,919 --> 00:25:42,480 consistent. You got consistency there. 319 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,640 you you've got a level playing field and 320 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,480 everybody's going by the same rules and 321 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,159 you don't get confusion on who does this 322 00:25:48,159 --> 00:25:57,269 or who does what? Uh, six. 323 00:25:57,279 --> 00:25:58,960 All right, great question. Anybody know 324 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:11,510 what a quorum is? 325 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,720 right? A majority of that of a governing 326 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,440 body, right? Simple majority. Um, now 327 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,600 there are times it's kind of unique. We 328 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,720 are no longer a general law. But you 329 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,200 look at say 22037038 330 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,640 where they call for special meetings. 331 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,080 And I say this because less than a year 332 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,880 ago we were. You actually had to call a 333 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,159 special meeting. Either the mayor could 334 00:26:32,159 --> 00:26:34,480 call a special meeting or it 335 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,240 specifically says in statute three 336 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,840 members of a uh of the governing body 337 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,760 could call. Well, that's three out of 338 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,760 five. Does anybody know why it took 339 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:49,669 three members to call a special meeting? 340 00:26:49,679 --> 00:26:51,919 » Because a it was okay because a quorum 341 00:26:51,919 --> 00:26:53,440 for special meeting was four of the 342 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,000 five. So technically specifically 343 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,679 according to that statute. So I'm saying 344 00:26:57,679 --> 00:26:59,360 sometimes it can be tricky. It's easy to 345 00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:02,640 read but it can be tricky. So we've got 346 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,159 it all laid out in the charter so it's 347 00:27:04,159 --> 00:27:07,279 much easier. So it's very important to 348 00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:09,600 remember again I'm going to point back 349 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,840 to it all the time. The big overarching 350 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,600 umbrella that we're talking about back 351 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:14,799 when we were in general law we're 352 00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:16,960 talking about a special meeting forum 353 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,919 was different took three members to uh 354 00:27:19,919 --> 00:27:22,159 to call it or the mayor because you 355 00:27:22,159 --> 00:27:24,320 needed four to have that meeting seven 356 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,390 please. 357 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,720 Now, we have it outlined uh in the 358 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,279 statute, and I had to go back and add um 359 00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:35,919 home rule because we're home rule city. 360 00:27:35,919 --> 00:27:37,679 Um so, that's going to depend on the 361 00:27:37,679 --> 00:27:40,080 charter that we've we talked about that 362 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,080 some of the people were on the home rule 363 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,679 charter commission and with almost no 364 00:27:45,679 --> 00:27:47,279 exceptions, we were able to make the 365 00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:49,760 charter the way that we 366 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,520 wanted to make it. And so, um there you 367 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,000 go right there. It's a majority of the 368 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,440 governmental body. Um, and of course the 369 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,080 EDC and things like that is the majority 370 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,760 of the of the board members. Three of 371 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,840 five. Some some EDCs and things like 372 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,840 that, type B's or type A's have seven. 373 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,840 So obviously that would be four of the 374 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,760 seven just like our council now has 375 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,919 seven. Um, eight, please. 376 00:28:15,919 --> 00:28:18,240 So what is the meeting? Anybody venture 377 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,470 a guess on that? 378 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,360 I guess 379 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:27,350 >> that is that that is that the only 380 00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:27,360 » that is that that is that the only 381 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:28,880 definition of a meeting? 382 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,990 >> Okay. All right. 383 00:28:31,990 --> 00:28:32,000 » Okay. All right. 384 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:38,630 >> Okay. Anybody else? 385 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,039 » All right. Anybody else? 386 00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:45,990 Okay. Go to uh nine, please 387 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,919 look at that. I would say you're all 388 00:28:47,919 --> 00:28:50,000 right. It's absolutely when it's 389 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,720 scheduled. That is the definition in D a 390 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,320 gathering conducted by the governmental 391 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:55,760 body which the government body is 392 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,240 responsible core members present uh 393 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,080 called by the governmental body. So 394 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,240 there's your meeting and you two y'all 395 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,520 are definition a a deliberation. 396 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:13,909 What does deliberation mean? 397 00:29:13,919 --> 00:29:16,720 » It's very interesting. So and that is 398 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,760 the subject of some case law too. 399 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,279 deliberation. You just look at the 400 00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:24,240 dictionary definition. It means long 401 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,480 detailed conversation. 402 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,120 That's what deliberation means. And so 403 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,480 why that's also very important is we've 404 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,399 got to and I think if y'all are going to 405 00:29:34,399 --> 00:29:36,720 serve for a while, it is not a bad idea 406 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,399 to give you some homework and I would 407 00:29:38,399 --> 00:29:41,200 peruse chapter 311 of the government 408 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,480 code. Why do I say that? Well, chapter 409 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:49,360 311 is called the code construction act. 410 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,039 It is a textbook that judges are 411 00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:55,120 supposed to use and they don't always 412 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,520 use it, trust me. Uh, but they are 413 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,440 supposed to use to interpret rules, 414 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,840 ordinances, statutes, regulations, 415 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,600 things of that nature. That is the 416 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,320 interpretation. Well, 311, I think it's 417 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,000 31011 418 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,640 right there, words are given their plain 419 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,360 and ordinary meaning basically from the 420 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,000 dictionary unless the statute regulation 421 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,960 rule defines them in another way. 422 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,159 So if you got apple and it means a you 423 00:30:22,159 --> 00:30:24,559 know long yellow thing with a with a 424 00:30:24,559 --> 00:30:27,279 cover on it for purposes of that statute 425 00:30:27,279 --> 00:30:29,679 that's what apple means. If you just say 426 00:30:29,679 --> 00:30:32,240 apple without the definition it means 427 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,880 the round crisp red green yellow 428 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,360 whatever fruit. So it's a very important 429 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,000 thing to understand because why now we 430 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,840 know what deliberation is and it's a 431 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,840 deliberation it's between that long 432 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,960 detailed conversation between a quorum 433 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,720 of the governmental body or or a quorum 434 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,640 of the governmental body and another 435 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,600 person and it is when as you two 436 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,840 correctly stated during which public 437 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,559 business or even public policy over now 438 00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:01,840 y'all got to have if y'all are talking 439 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,279 about what was going on with Charlie 440 00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:05,840 Kirk and the funeral and stuff like 441 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,919 Not a problem. Even if it's a corner. 442 00:31:07,919 --> 00:31:10,240 But if y'all are talking about, hey, we 443 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,559 need to have a resolution honoring 444 00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:14,960 Charlie Kirk and what did now you're 445 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,679 getting into number three, public 446 00:31:17,679 --> 00:31:20,240 business or public policy over which the 447 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:21,840 governmental body has supervisional 448 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,600 control. Now that's being discussed. 449 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,279 So, and then D, of course, y'all would 450 00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:29,679 want to take formal action on that. Now 451 00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:31,520 you got a quorum. Now you got a 452 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,120 deliberation. 453 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,559 not proper. So that that's it's very 454 00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:38,559 important to know when you have a 455 00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:43,830 meeting. Uh 10 police. 456 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,120 So does the which one? A woman make it 457 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,720 really easy. Does the open meetings 458 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,480 occupy every time there's a quorum of a 459 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,320 governmental body? Everybody who wants 460 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,640 to say A, of course it does or B maybe 461 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,080 depending on the circumstances. 462 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,320 Everybody says that A raise your hand 463 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,310 that it applies every time. 464 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,320 Okay. Well, you got to pick one or the 465 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:05,039 other 466 00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:06,710 >> who it says be maybe depending on the 467 00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:06,720 » who it says be maybe depending on the 468 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,149 circumstances. 469 00:32:10,159 --> 00:32:32,070 » Okay. Next slide, please. Angela. 470 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,000 Well, and it's also th those aren't 471 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,360 require I don't think it's a bad 472 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,279 practice for cities to have, but there's 473 00:32:37,279 --> 00:32:39,840 no law that requires notice of possible 474 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,240 form. Nothing nothing that that 475 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,000 requires. Again, a lot of cities do that 476 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,440 just to cover themselves. I don't have a 477 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,279 problem with it. It it's okay. But y'all 478 00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:50,559 getting together and talking about 479 00:32:50,559 --> 00:32:52,799 things, for example, social functions, 480 00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:55,519 ceremonial events. So if a quorum of the 481 00:32:55,519 --> 00:32:57,919 government body had gone uh with Mr. 482 00:32:57,919 --> 00:32:59,840 Powers because he was driving all the 483 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,799 way to Arizona for Mr. Kirk's funeral, 484 00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:04,080 that would have been fine. That would 485 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,200 have been an exception. So again, I love 486 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,120 exceptions because it reminds us we're 487 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,919 focusing on a big overarching umbrella. 488 00:33:11,919 --> 00:33:14,799 Hey, everything is open to the public. 489 00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:16,960 All meetings, yada yada. So this is an 490 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,880 exception to when we have to follow the 491 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,519 rules. So I I I I 492 00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:23,919 love using exceptions. Next slide, 493 00:33:23,919 --> 00:33:26,559 please. 494 00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:29,990 >> Sure. 495 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:35,029 » Do 496 00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:39,750 you 497 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:46,630 have 498 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:53,509 Friday. 499 00:33:53,519 --> 00:34:19,589 It would be my mindset. 500 00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:27,510 public 501 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,599 » and and all I'm saying is the law 502 00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:42,389 doesn't require it. understand 503 00:34:42,399 --> 00:34:48,790 our city. 504 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:56,550 » Okay. Yeah. I mean like 505 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,560 I've seen examples in city 506 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,599 where council members 507 00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:05,520 situation 508 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:14,230 relationship. 509 00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:35,510 » Okay. 510 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,030 It's a good example. 511 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:58,390 You're doing something for good reason. 512 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:03,349 Okay. 513 00:36:03,359 --> 00:36:05,200 » Oh, yeah. She's got the form. She's got 514 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:06,720 the form down. Angela know what she's 515 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:19,190 doing. Yeah. She just whip it in. 516 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,790 No, no, no. 517 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,520 » We do not go back. 518 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,829 >> If you want to speak retroactively, 519 00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:27,839 » If you want to speak retroactively, 520 00:36:27,839 --> 00:36:31,349 that's different. 521 00:36:31,359 --> 00:36:39,990 » Oh, no. 522 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,960 » By law, They're not required because 523 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,960 they're purely purely don't forget that 524 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,480 word purely advisory. My recommendation 525 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,200 is and most cities do this might not be 526 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,520 where they don't. They require any board 527 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,040 or commission whether or not they're 528 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,680 advisory to follow TOMA which I think is 529 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:10,390 a best practice. 530 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:36,310 They're intended to be 531 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,480 Yes. Transparency. 532 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,030 >> Well, just as a general principle, I 533 00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:41,040 » Well, just as a general principle, I 534 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:42,960 think transparency that's number one. 535 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,599 Number two, you also escape from, well, 536 00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:46,800 man, I wanted to come down and talk 537 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,160 about the park, but no, I didn't know 538 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,200 about the meeting. Okay. So now the way 539 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,880 we do it now, hey, there's a notice of 540 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,160 park board on the on the website because 541 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,480 you go click on it and see the agenda. 542 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,960 That's a third thing is if you don't 543 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,560 follow the open meetings act, you're not 544 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,800 posting an agenda. So nobody's and we'll 545 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,560 get into that too, but nobody really 546 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:07,920 knows what's going to happen at the 547 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,760 parks uh board meeting. 548 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,030 >> Hold on. So to use your example, John, 549 00:38:13,030 --> 00:38:13,040 » Hold on. So to use your example, John, 550 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:17,040 if if it's a parks board advising 551 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,400 merrygoround, whatever they're called 552 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,320 these days, and they're just talking 553 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:21,599 about it and they're passing around the 554 00:38:21,599 --> 00:38:24,000 idea, just pass around the idea to 555 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,160 advise the actual governmental body 556 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,599 who's going to make the decision. At 557 00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:31,200 that point, it is public knowledge. So I 558 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,119 think it's has I don't think it takes 559 00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:35,200 away the transparency when you have an 560 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,680 advisory board just throwing out ideas 561 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,960 because the the action taken in front of 562 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,599 the people on the island and then the 563 00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:45,200 people could come and talk at that time 564 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,520 and say no I don't want to bring Mary go 565 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,079 around I want to be read you see what 566 00:38:50,079 --> 00:38:53,680 I'm saying because I think a lot of time 567 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,349 >> but here's the thing how would they know 568 00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:55,359 » but here's the thing how would they know 569 00:38:55,359 --> 00:38:57,119 to come and speak about that if there 570 00:38:57,119 --> 00:38:58,560 was no agenda posted 571 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,550 >> because the advis board is just getting 572 00:39:00,550 --> 00:39:00,560 » because the advis board is just getting 573 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,240 it planned. The action is the 574 00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:03,839 governmental body and then it is posted 575 00:39:03,839 --> 00:39:05,200 because they're taking action. 576 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:06,870 >> So, what do you do about people that 577 00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:06,880 » So, what do you do about people that 578 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,640 complain that I wanted to go to the park 579 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:09,920 board meeting, but you didn't tell me 580 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,160 about it? 581 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,630 >> It's an advisory board. They're they're 582 00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:14,640 » It's an advisory board. They're they're 583 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,599 coming up with ideas to give the actual 584 00:39:17,599 --> 00:39:20,160 government body the idea. If they want 585 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,599 to be a part of that, then they submit 586 00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:23,760 their name and they they become part of 587 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,079 that plan. So, that's the whole thing. 588 00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:27,520 If you're going to be in an advisory 589 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,599 board and you want to the one making 590 00:39:29,599 --> 00:39:32,560 recommendations. We put it out time and 591 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,400 time again for people to be involved. If 592 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,160 they don't sign up to be involved and 593 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:37,520 then they want to complain about the 594 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,560 green versus red, well then they should 595 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:41,920 have signed up and then they could have 596 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,160 injected their voice then. It's I don't 597 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,320 think it takes away transparency. The 598 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:47,920 problem where it would take away 599 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,599 transparency is if we didn't we did make 600 00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:54,720 a decision and just gave a directive to 601 00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:58,560 the staff and never did anything. 602 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,079 Now, here's the thing. Y'all are 603 00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:03,280 advocating for it to to not have to. I 604 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:04,800 I'm saying if you don't want it to 605 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,000 follow Toma, you can do that. I I still 606 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,640 believe it's a better pra not one way is 607 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,280 wrong and one way is right. Hear me. Not 608 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,119 saying one way is wrong, one I think 609 00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:17,599 it's a better practice. It's a safer 610 00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:19,680 practice. It's a more conservative 611 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,240 practice to have everybody follow Toma. 612 00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:23,760 And I guess a fourth one would be 613 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,520 everybody's on the same playing field. 614 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,920 Everybody follows the same rules. Again, 615 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,000 not wrong if you don't unless our 616 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,520 charter sets up and we're breaking the 617 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,680 law there. But if our charter is silent 618 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,760 on it, it's completely totally up to 619 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,560 y'all as the council how y'all want that 620 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,800 to play out. I just think it's the 621 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,960 better practice of the two choices. 622 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:45,589 >> Fair enough. 623 00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:45,599 » Fair enough. 624 00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:47,030 >> Yeah. And we did that with the charter 625 00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:47,040 » Yeah. And we did that with the charter 626 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,320 if I'm not mistaken. When we did the 627 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,280 charter, those were all posted and open 628 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,280 and everything. I'm not saying that we 629 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,440 wouldn't 630 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:56,560 To John's point, if they're just 631 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,470 throwing around some ideas, 632 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,319 it's keeping him from being able to call 633 00:41:02,319 --> 00:41:03,920 two or three people just because they're 634 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:33,270 an advisory board. They're not elected. 635 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:50,390 small things together. 636 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,839 » Yeah. And I agree with that because 637 00:41:53,839 --> 00:41:56,079 They were making recommendations. 638 00:41:56,079 --> 00:41:57,829 >> Yeah. No, and I agree with that. I'm 639 00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:57,839 » Yeah. No, and I agree with that. I'm 640 00:41:57,839 --> 00:42:00,079 just I was just trying to understand 641 00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:03,440 what John's example was. Like if they're 642 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,160 just calling to talk about something, 643 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,160 you know, two or three, four people are 644 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,880 coming up with an idea and they haven't 645 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,520 had a meeting since they're not elected 646 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,160 officials. They're not are they held to 647 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,160 that same 648 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,880 that's so strict that the elected 649 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:31,750 I don't know 650 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,319 all of the city council and all 651 00:42:34,319 --> 00:42:36,319 commissions and committees by city 652 00:42:36,319 --> 00:42:39,430 council. 653 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:40,880 » There you go. There you go. So then it 654 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:42,720 has to be so then it would be breaking 655 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:47,510 the law. We didn't 656 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:48,560 » answer that. 657 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:49,750 >> All right. 658 00:42:49,750 --> 00:42:49,760 » All right. 659 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,750 >> Moving on. These are these meetings. 660 00:42:51,750 --> 00:42:51,760 » Moving on. These are these meetings. 661 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,440 What determines what makes up a meeting? 662 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,960 Number 13, please. 663 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:58,319 So, these are some of the things that 664 00:42:58,319 --> 00:43:00,240 you would that you would ask about. Is 665 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,720 there a quorum? Is there a deliberation? 666 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,560 And we don't know what that means, 667 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,560 between the governing body members. And 668 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,599 are they discussing public business? So 669 00:43:09,599 --> 00:43:12,720 again, all three of those need to be 670 00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:15,280 present for there to be a quorum and 671 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,680 there be an issue with the open meetings 672 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,319 act. Okay? Got to have the quorum. Got 673 00:43:20,319 --> 00:43:24,309 to have public 674 00:43:24,319 --> 00:43:26,560 being discussed and is that a long 675 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,480 detailed conversation between those 676 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:39,349 members? 14, please. 677 00:43:39,359 --> 00:43:40,800 Oh, I got the same. I guess I got the 678 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,750 same one. Um 15. 679 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,000 Okay. So, 680 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,240 there's a gathering by and this gets 681 00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:51,520 into We were talking about the two 682 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,760 definitions gathering by a governing 683 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,240 body and a called meeting by the 684 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:58,880 governing body. Still the same rules are 685 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,200 going to apply if there's a staff member 686 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:02,880 present. 687 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,520 Is there a quorum? Is there are you 688 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,119 receiving information from the third 689 00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:09,200 party? Well, yeah. So, is the 690 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,040 information concerning public visits in 691 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:12,720 control of the public visit and control 692 00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:15,040 of the governing body? So if Bris is 693 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:16,800 giving everybody an update and there 694 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,359 happen to be five council members there, 695 00:44:19,359 --> 00:44:22,079 yeah, you got a meeting. All those 696 00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:23,839 things, all those things are present. So 697 00:44:23,839 --> 00:44:25,680 just because it's an employee, as 698 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,280 wonderful as it's still a meeting 16, 699 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:37,670 please. 700 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,040 Now, we've kind of talked about this, so 701 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:40,000 I think everybody's going to get this 702 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,079 one. So this is the Christmas party. Is 703 00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:44,880 there a liberation is public business 704 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,359 being discussed now in general the 705 00:44:47,359 --> 00:44:50,079 Christmas party. No, because that's not 706 00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:51,359 going to happen. You are going to talk 707 00:44:51,359 --> 00:44:53,040 about, you know, Jesus, what he's done 708 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,560 for us, the forgiveness, you know, those 709 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,640 those kind of of wonderful and good 710 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,800 things. And no sarcasm is intended there 711 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,319 because I believe in Jesus Christ as my 712 00:45:00,319 --> 00:45:04,720 Lord and Savior. But the point is, if if 713 00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:07,200 city business starts to be discussed by 714 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,680 three people gathered together, doesn't 715 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,319 mean it doesn't mean it will be. Okay? 716 00:45:12,319 --> 00:45:14,960 Uh I actually from my experience in 26 717 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,560 years most of the time at parties like 718 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,800 this most of the time it's not I mean 719 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,880 some things comments maybe will be made 720 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,200 but there's not a quote long detailed 721 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,680 conversation about things that are under 722 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:30,400 the control of the governing body. So 723 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:31,760 even though that's specifically an 724 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:32,880 exception that you can get them all 725 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:34,880 together the other things still have to 726 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:36,960 be present for it to be considered a 727 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:41,670 meeting. Uh 17, 728 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,680 the mayor's office. You know, the mayor 729 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,520 loves to have people in his office when 730 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,720 he has gathering. Again, as wonderful as 731 00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:50,079 our mayor is, and we're going to have a 732 00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:52,160 statue of him before he uh leaves. We 733 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,480 all know that. Is the gathering is it 734 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,160 been called by the governing body? Is 735 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:57,839 there a quorum present? Are they 736 00:45:57,839 --> 00:45:59,359 receiving information from the third 737 00:45:59,359 --> 00:46:02,640 party? Is that not just that is the 738 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,800 information about again, hey, I want to 739 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,400 give you all information about the uh 740 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,160 Mr. powers to give information about the 741 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:09,920 Charlie Kirk uh and there's a quorum 742 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:11,040 present. You're having a long detailed 743 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:12,960 conversation about that. It is not 744 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,680 information about which the governing 745 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:19,200 body has control. So all of those 746 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,000 factors like I said you read it and it's 747 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:23,359 pretty simple but then when you go out 748 00:46:23,359 --> 00:46:25,760 and in practice sometimes it'd be a bit 749 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,160 confusing to do but all those have to be 750 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:34,630 present. 18 please. 751 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,390 Um, 752 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,560 yeah, this this comes up all the time. 753 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:41,920 Well, hey, can we go to commissioner's 754 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:43,119 court? What happens if we all go to 755 00:46:43,119 --> 00:46:46,319 commissioner's court? Well, okay, here 756 00:46:46,319 --> 00:46:48,319 you have a situation where I think it's 757 00:46:48,319 --> 00:46:50,400 fine if the entire council wants to go 758 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:51,920 to the county commissioner the the 759 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,480 commissioner's court meetings. 760 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,200 I don't want there to be any kind of 761 00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,839 long detailed conversation 762 00:46:59,839 --> 00:47:02,640 by a for quum of the council 763 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,800 over which that governing body has 764 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,960 authority. So going to the 765 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,119 commissioner's court meeting is fine. 766 00:47:09,119 --> 00:47:11,839 Going to the RCH meeting is fine. Going 767 00:47:11,839 --> 00:47:14,000 to whatever meeting you want to go to is 768 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,960 fine. My my warning is always be real 769 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:18,480 careful about when you get together and 770 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,720 you you talk about different things. Now 771 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:22,079 there's other things that people What 772 00:47:22,079 --> 00:47:23,920 about this? We're gonna get we still got 773 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,200 a ways to go. So, we're going to get 774 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,079 into other stuff. I just want to lay the 775 00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:30,640 basic groundwork so y'all don't think 776 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,240 again kind of like what I said at the 777 00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:33,839 beginning. I don't want y'all to think 778 00:47:33,839 --> 00:47:35,040 that, oh crap, we're going to get in 779 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:36,800 trouble because there's a quorum here. 780 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,560 No, no, no, no. There are still other 781 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,800 considerations and other questions that 782 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,960 need to be asked and answered in the 783 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,040 affirmative before people need to start 784 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:46,560 worrying about the fact that we've got a 785 00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,160 quorum of a governing body or board 786 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:56,790 commission present. Uh, Please. 787 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,200 Um, 788 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,880 now this one's a little bit different. 789 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,119 It's kind of interesting. Look at the 790 00:48:03,119 --> 00:48:05,119 second question. Is there deliberation 791 00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:08,480 by a city council and another person? Is 792 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,319 there discussion public business in 793 00:48:10,319 --> 00:48:13,760 control of the city? So, you can have 794 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,480 members of the city council talking 795 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,240 about somebody. Let's say, hey, look, 796 00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:20,319 this is where you need as a resident, 797 00:48:20,319 --> 00:48:23,599 not only Chis Rockall County. I don't 798 00:48:23,599 --> 00:48:25,359 want the outer loop going right here. It 799 00:48:25,359 --> 00:48:27,680 needs to be moved over here. Well, 800 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:29,440 that's not I mean I guess they're trying 801 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,040 to screw us over and put us there, but 802 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:32,640 you get you're talking about where it's 803 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,160 going to go in the county, not 804 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,960 necessarily specific to the city. That 805 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,359 y'all can all talk about that. That is 806 00:48:39,359 --> 00:48:42,960 not an area of which y'all have control. 807 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,480 Y'all aren't in control of where that 808 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,240 goes. You You may have an opinion and a 809 00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:48,400 say and may maybe they might listen to 810 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,720 you on that. we can get along with 811 00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:52,720 everybody, but that is not something 812 00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:55,920 that we as a city have control over. So 813 00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,319 again, trying to put y'all on a bunch of 814 00:48:58,319 --> 00:49:00,880 different scenarios, help y'all see that 815 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,319 these same rules apply. 816 00:49:04,319 --> 00:49:09,030 >> Yeah. 817 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,319 » Right. For them. So 818 00:49:12,319 --> 00:49:28,950 it seems like what you're tell 819 00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:30,000 here's the thing we're going to get into 820 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,800 a little bit of that. Well, but it's not 821 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,079 it's not Toma like okay. No, does it 822 00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:38,240 apply to what situation does it apply 823 00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:40,800 to? If everybody if we've got four a 824 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,559 quorum of our council going up there and 825 00:49:42,559 --> 00:49:45,119 discussing with the the county 826 00:49:45,119 --> 00:49:47,359 commissioner and they're playing off of 827 00:49:47,359 --> 00:49:50,160 each other, the council members are 828 00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,680 playing off of each other. I don't care. 829 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:53,200 I don't represent the county. I don't 830 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:54,400 care what they do. That's their 831 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,920 business. My concern is if you have you 832 00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,680 going up and made statement and then 833 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,119 mayor prochem going up. Oh yeah, you 834 00:50:01,119 --> 00:50:02,240 know what? I agree with council member 835 00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:04,000 Dean because this is what and you've got 836 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,480 control over that. You've got control 837 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,480 over that. Now you run the risk of a 838 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:09,920 quorum there because y'all are all 839 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,079 discussing city business that you have 840 00:50:12,079 --> 00:50:14,640 control over without it being posted as 841 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,800 a meeting. That's the problem. Now, if 842 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,880 it is something like, hey, this is going 843 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:20,559 to affect the county and the county as a 844 00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:22,960 whole, blah, blah, and Tim gets I agree 845 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:24,800 with council member Dean or maybe just 846 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,400 because you're rich Dean there. Uh, I 847 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:27,839 agree with him, blah, blah, blah. That 848 00:50:27,839 --> 00:50:28,800 the way that's going to affect the 849 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,119 county. Y'all don't have control over 850 00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:33,040 that. That is not a violation. You don't 851 00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,000 need it posted. Things like that. So, 852 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,160 it's not just a I hear what you're 853 00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,599 saying about Toma applies, but I want 854 00:50:41,599 --> 00:50:43,520 you to understand how it applies to you, 855 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,200 to you, to you, to you, to you, to you, 856 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,119 and to me. That's what I'm trying to get 857 00:50:49,119 --> 00:50:52,319 us to understand. So, just us going up 858 00:50:52,319 --> 00:50:54,960 there and talking, even if all four of 859 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,200 them say, "Yeah, we all agree." If y'all 860 00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,040 all four went up there and said, "We all 861 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,280 agree as a whole that this shouldn't be 862 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:04,960 happening in Rockall County, this part, 863 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,440 whatever, but it's not in Mlin Chisum." 864 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:08,960 That's not a revelation of 865 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:13,990 >> what you're saying 866 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:15,920 about 867 00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:17,990 >> Yes, that's a good way to phrase it. 868 00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:18,000 » Yes, that's a good way to phrase it. 869 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,000 That that meeting enemy I like that. I 870 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,599 like maybe that's a better way to to 871 00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:23,680 phrase it if that if that helps. So I 872 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:25,200 I'm going to copy that. You know Oscar 873 00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:26,640 Wild said plagiarism has form of 874 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:28,480 flatter. So I'm flattering you. So 875 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,079 that's right. The meeting within a 876 00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:33,280 meeting just because the big meeting we 877 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,839 aren't protected by Toma too because 878 00:51:35,839 --> 00:51:37,839 there was no just said the city council 879 00:51:37,839 --> 00:51:39,359 mint and Chisum is going to be at the 880 00:51:39,359 --> 00:51:40,559 county commissioners meeting and they're 881 00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:43,200 going to meet deliberate about XYZ. 882 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,040 There you go. I thank you very much for 883 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:49,119 that. I like him. It's good. Uh 2019, 884 00:51:49,119 --> 00:51:53,440 what is it next? Okay. All right. Now, 885 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,119 here's the instant messaging board. So, 886 00:51:55,119 --> 00:51:57,200 we have Do we have anything on our 887 00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,160 website for this or whatever? 888 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,990 >> Instant messaging like message board or 889 00:52:01,990 --> 00:52:02,000 » Instant messaging like message board or 890 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,160 anything like that digital like 891 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,549 >> we don't. Okay. Uh I mean, all right. 892 00:52:06,549 --> 00:52:06,559 » we don't. Okay. Uh I mean, all right. 893 00:52:06,559 --> 00:52:07,760 Well, I don't want to get too much into 894 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,599 it. Um, but there are specific rules and 895 00:52:11,599 --> 00:52:13,280 guidelines if you have a messaging 896 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:14,960 board, like how long you can keep the 897 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:16,880 message, you know, you got to be careful 898 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:18,640 about how quickly you respond or don't 899 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,079 respond or this this type of thing. And 900 00:52:20,079 --> 00:52:23,280 that's all laid out. And 55106, 901 00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,079 if y'all want to go and and and look at 902 00:52:26,079 --> 00:52:29,440 that when we get uh maybe it'll need 903 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,680 more discussion once we get if we get 904 00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:43,670 one of those things. 905 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,160 Well, two things. As usual, you always 906 00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:47,920 are far ahead of me, Mr. Goodwin. Thank 907 00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,359 you so much for making me look bad. I 908 00:52:49,359 --> 00:52:51,040 appreciate that. We're going to get into 909 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,760 more of that, 910 00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,000 but specifically messaging boards like 911 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,040 this. cities only allowed to have one on 912 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:00,800 the website and this is a specific 913 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:02,400 statutory 914 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,119 uh section to govern that specifically. 915 00:53:05,119 --> 00:53:06,559 But we're gonna we're definitely getting 916 00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:23,190 into more of that. Uh 21, please. 917 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,200 Well, we're not under that specific one, 918 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:26,800 but we're going to get into what that 919 00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,680 stuff is. So, yeah. 920 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,559 So, um 921 00:53:32,559 --> 00:53:34,240 I mean this is probably more for for 922 00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:36,079 breeze because he's got to set it up, 923 00:53:36,079 --> 00:53:37,680 you know, about when you can respond to 924 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:39,599 posts. Uh like I mentioned to you just a 925 00:53:39,599 --> 00:53:40,880 minute ago, how long you respond to 926 00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,680 posts, uh how long they have to be up, 927 00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,280 you know, you can't take any action, 928 00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:46,960 things like that. That's specifically 929 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,440 for the message board that we have uh on 930 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,829 the website. 22, please. 931 00:53:53,839 --> 00:53:55,599 Now, now we're going to get into notice 932 00:53:55,599 --> 00:53:58,160 requirements. Some of them have changed, 933 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,559 but this is this is constantly something 934 00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:02,800 that and and Angela has been fantastic 935 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,040 to work with, but because she doesn't 936 00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,559 just take it for granted. She's always 937 00:54:06,559 --> 00:54:08,720 talking about, hey, how should items be 938 00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:10,880 worded on the agenda? What and what I 939 00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:12,800 actually appreciate about the mayor. The 940 00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,240 mayor will email me and say, "Hey, look, 941 00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:16,079 this is what I want on the agenda, uh, 942 00:54:16,079 --> 00:54:17,599 you know, how if I need to change the 943 00:54:17,599 --> 00:54:19,200 wording, let me know." Like, and I 944 00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,440 really appreciate that because there are 945 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,000 rules and regulations about how, again, 946 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,000 they're going to be general and then you 947 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:27,280 got to kind of have some statutory 948 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,520 construction, maybe some case law, AG 949 00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,359 opinions, things like that about how 950 00:54:31,359 --> 00:54:37,270 that plays out. So, 23, please. 951 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,599 All right. Uh, this one I wanted to 952 00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:41,599 leave up because I want you all know how 953 00:54:41,599 --> 00:54:43,599 long does it take the notice of meeting 954 00:54:43,599 --> 00:54:53,670 to have be posted. A, B, C, or D? 955 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,480 » All right, going on to the next one. 956 00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,160 I left up the old one because it's all 957 00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:01,040 changed now. It's not 72 hours anymore. 958 00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,800 It's kind of a trick question. I want to 959 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,040 see who I could fool. The law has just 960 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,800 changed. So now you have to have three 961 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,920 full business days, not including the 962 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,400 day of the meeting and I think not 963 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,119 including the day that you post. So you 964 00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:20,160 post like you post on a Monday, Tuesday, 965 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,079 Wednesday, Thursday, you can have a 966 00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:24,319 meeting on Monday. We're different 967 00:55:24,319 --> 00:55:26,400 because we're closed on Fridays. So 968 00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,319 Friday is not a business day. So it 969 00:55:28,319 --> 00:55:30,319 doesn't count. I told you the state 970 00:55:30,319 --> 00:55:31,839 legislature does whatever they can to 971 00:55:31,839 --> 00:55:34,640 make life more difficult for us. So now 972 00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,640 we have meetings on Tuesday. We need to 973 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,319 get everything posted by the previous 974 00:55:38,319 --> 00:55:40,240 Tuesday. Uh because then you've got 975 00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:42,240 Wednesday, Thursday, and Monday. Boom. 976 00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:45,599 And we have a meeting on on Tuesday. So 977 00:55:45,599 --> 00:55:47,520 it's very important that everybody, you 978 00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:49,119 know, if you need anything to get it to 979 00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:52,319 Angela in plenty of time that we can now 980 00:55:52,319 --> 00:55:56,710 post uh 25. 981 00:55:56,720 --> 00:56:00,000 All right. Now we're getting to what is 982 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:04,160 sufficient notice. Now you look at the 983 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,960 far right. Sufficient to alert the 984 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,319 public in general terms 985 00:56:10,319 --> 00:56:12,559 of the subject that will be considered 986 00:56:12,559 --> 00:56:15,520 in the meeting. I've had city uh 987 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,000 officials ask me, well wait, we we can 988 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,359 just meet about that because we've got 989 00:56:19,359 --> 00:56:22,799 executive session on the agenda. Well, I 990 00:56:22,799 --> 00:56:26,000 go look and they mean literally, not 991 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,079 figuratively. They have executive 992 00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:29,440 session on the agenda and they think 993 00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,839 they can talk about whatever they want. 994 00:56:31,839 --> 00:56:35,119 again. No, no, no, no, no. Those are 995 00:56:35,119 --> 00:56:37,760 exceptions. And you've got to have an 996 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:39,839 idea. You can't just hide what you want 997 00:56:39,839 --> 00:56:42,079 to talk about. You got to have something 998 00:56:42,079 --> 00:56:45,599 even on executive session items. So, 999 00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:47,760 while they won't be per pre peri privy 1000 00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,559 to the discussions in executive session, 1001 00:56:50,559 --> 00:56:52,480 you got to have an idea and give the 1002 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,040 public an idea generally what you're 1003 00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,280 going to be talking about in executive 1004 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,400 session. So we like we did last night is 1005 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,200 a great example. The 8.2 that Oh, thank 1006 00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,480 you very much for that. The 8.2 item, 1007 00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,480 the 8.2 item when we went executive 1008 00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,400 session and it was fine the way it was 1009 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,000 written on the agenda to be able to go 1010 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,559 into executive session because they 1011 00:57:14,559 --> 00:57:16,480 don't know what we're talking about in 1012 00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,480 there. They don't have to know the the 1013 00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,559 discussions, but they know the general 1014 00:57:20,559 --> 00:57:22,559 subject matter that was discussion 1015 00:57:22,559 --> 00:57:26,160 executive session. And that that is what 1016 00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,760 the open meetings act requires. So you 1017 00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:32,799 you can't just cart blunch, leave it 1018 00:57:32,799 --> 00:57:34,960 wide open that we're just going to have. 1019 00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,359 That was like the funniest thing. Well, 1020 00:57:37,359 --> 00:57:38,799 at the time it really wasn't that funny 1021 00:57:38,799 --> 00:57:40,960 when Yeah, we've got on the agenda. What 1022 00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,280 do you got on the agenda? Exact session. 1023 00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,280 But you don't have to have it on that 1024 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:46,480 you want to talk about the chief of 1025 00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,559 police. Well, we got executive session. 1026 00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:50,799 They literally thought that was enough. 1027 00:57:50,799 --> 00:57:54,079 Okay. So, um 1028 00:57:54,079 --> 00:57:57,839 the well and I put rule of thumb because 1029 00:57:57,839 --> 00:57:59,520 but there's actually some case law on 1030 00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:02,640 this for example everybody puts an 1031 00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,680 executive session for 1032 00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:09,760 um for uh personnel 551074 1033 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,079 A1 discuss and consider the dismissal 1034 00:58:12,079 --> 00:58:15,280 reassignment uh of duties etc of a 1035 00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,000 public officer employee to wit and then 1036 00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:19,839 they'll put the title okay that's all 1037 00:58:19,839 --> 00:58:21,359 you need to put now here's what's 1038 00:58:21,359 --> 00:58:23,440 interesting is 1039 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,240 if you just put police officer, 1040 00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:28,720 that doesn't require as much notice as 1041 00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:32,240 if you put chief of police right there. 1042 00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:33,760 The more important the particular 1043 00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,079 subject is to the public, the more 1044 00:58:36,079 --> 00:58:39,119 specific the notice needs to read. So 1045 00:58:39,119 --> 00:58:41,200 again, if you're going to discuss a 1046 00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,040 police officer, don't mean to offend 1047 00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:46,480 anybody, but that is not as heightened 1048 00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,440 in interest to the public as the chief 1049 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,720 of police. Good example is somebody big 1050 00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,119 like Dallas or Fort Worth. Do you all 1051 00:58:55,119 --> 00:58:57,760 ever take notice if you saw a police 1052 00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,440 officer on the agenda? Probably not. 1053 00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,359 Maybe if you knew him or her, then maybe 1054 00:59:03,359 --> 00:59:05,680 so. Now, are you going to look at a 1055 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,520 little closer? If you see on the agenda 1056 00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:11,200 the Fort Worth Chief of Police. Yeah. 1057 00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:12,640 Yeah. So, that's what we're talking 1058 00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:14,799 about. The more important a particular 1059 00:59:14,799 --> 00:59:17,359 uh subject is, the more specific you 1060 00:59:17,359 --> 00:59:19,520 need to be. So, that's great for us. We 1061 00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:21,359 know that every single person in the 1062 00:59:21,359 --> 00:59:23,359 city of Mlin Chisum there is a 1063 00:59:23,359 --> 00:59:25,359 physiological of the change that goes 1064 00:59:25,359 --> 00:59:27,119 through them once they pass our borders 1065 00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:29,440 and become a resident here and they care 1066 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,280 about every bit of land use that goes 1067 00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,480 on. So I know that about this. So Angela 1068 00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,799 and I get together and we go into a 1069 00:59:36,799 --> 00:59:38,720 little bit more detail anytime we put 1070 00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,040 information about about plats. You see 1071 00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:42,799 her when she talks about you know 1072 00:59:42,799 --> 00:59:45,280 discuss consider uh approving a plat for 1073 00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:48,079 8.2 2 acres out of the WB Warfield 1074 00:59:48,079 --> 00:59:50,400 survey generally blah blah blah you know 1075 00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,079 number whatever the number is uh blah 1076 00:59:52,079 --> 00:59:53,839 blah blah generally located at the 1077 00:59:53,839 --> 00:59:56,720 southwest corner of 550 and whatever 1078 00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,119 okay that's that's a lot more detail 1079 00:59:59,119 --> 01:00:01,200 than you put on a lot of other agenda 1080 01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:05,040 items okay um that's that's real 1081 01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,119 important to understand too of why we 1082 01:00:07,119 --> 01:00:09,920 put things on the agenda the way we the 1083 01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:16,309 way we do uh 26 1084 01:00:16,319 --> 01:00:18,720 Okay, 1085 01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:20,240 this one's pretty easy because Angela 1086 01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,280 does a fantastic job. Anybody know where 1087 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:25,920 you're supposed to put uh a copy of the 1088 01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:29,990 agenda, 1089 01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:31,119 » man. You know what? I'm gonna have to 1090 01:00:31,119 --> 01:00:32,559 stop you from like you're not allowed to 1091 01:00:32,559 --> 01:00:34,480 enter anything. People forget a lot 1092 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,359 about the website and this is me. It 1093 01:00:37,359 --> 01:00:38,480 doesn't matter how long I've been doing 1094 01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:40,559 this. I I had pretty sharp several years 1095 01:00:40,559 --> 01:00:42,319 ago had a pretty 1096 01:00:42,319 --> 01:00:45,119 city secretary and uh it was a small 1097 01:00:45,119 --> 01:00:48,000 town about 900 people so you know she's 1098 01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:49,839 not as refined as say Angela is or 1099 01:00:49,839 --> 01:00:52,960 somebody is super nice lady loved 1100 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,040 working with her and we're going along I 1101 01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:56,480 don't even remember how it came up 1102 01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,240 they're once a month you know type 1103 01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,599 meetings and um she mentioned something 1104 01:01:01,599 --> 01:01:03,280 about I said wait a minute you have a 1105 01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,200 website 1106 01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:06,400 I've been here for like two and a half 1107 01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:08,240 three years she's like yeah you know 1108 01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:11,520 there's a website I'm like you do do you 1109 01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,359 post the agenda on the website? She's 1110 01:01:13,359 --> 01:01:14,880 like, well, no. Do we have to? I'm like, 1111 01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,079 oh my gosh. I'm like, technically, yes. 1112 01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:21,200 Posting it on the website is just as 1113 01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:24,160 important as posting it in a conspicuous 1114 01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:27,200 place in city hall. Okay. And thank you 1115 01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:30,480 to Angela for being here. We had a while 1116 01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,079 back, we had a city secretary that would 1117 01:01:34,079 --> 01:01:36,480 post, and I remember this because of a 1118 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:38,720 certain lawsuit we're involved in a 1119 01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:42,319 blank agenda for August the 5th, 2021. 1120 01:01:42,319 --> 01:01:44,319 We didn't have a meeting. Why Why are 1121 01:01:44,319 --> 01:01:46,400 you Why are you posting a blanket 1122 01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,079 template agenda for a meeting that we 1123 01:01:48,079 --> 01:01:51,200 didn't even have? Causes a lot of issue. 1124 01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:53,200 Okay? So, you got to know what to post 1125 01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:56,480 and what not to post on there. So, it 1126 01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,400 doesn't do anything. Maybe she'll post, 1127 01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:00,160 "Hey, Daryus canled the meeting." Boom. 1128 01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:01,760 Puts on the website so the citizens 1129 01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:03,839 know. Okay? But you're not going to post 1130 01:02:03,839 --> 01:02:07,040 a blank agenda. But that's how important 1131 01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:09,440 the website is in addition to posting it 1132 01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:12,240 in a conspicuous place. Uh, next one, 1133 01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:16,470 please. 287. 1134 01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:19,359 All right. What uh what does the notice 1135 01:02:19,359 --> 01:02:21,920 of the of the meeting versus the agenda? 1136 01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:26,799 Okay. Agenda is not really defined by 1137 01:02:26,799 --> 01:02:29,520 the open means act. Okay, we we have 1138 01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:32,319 kind of created the term agenda as 1139 01:02:32,319 --> 01:02:36,720 that's a again 311 011 words are given 1140 01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:38,400 their plain ordinary meaning and what do 1141 01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:40,240 I have there black's law dictionary 1142 01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:41,520 because that's what attorneys love to 1143 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,079 use a list of things be done that's just 1144 01:02:44,079 --> 01:02:45,440 what we're doing these are the things 1145 01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,400 we're going to do at our meeting so 1146 01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,040 that's an agenda that's what we have 1147 01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:52,720 that's why we came up with that 28 1148 01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:57,670 please 1149 01:02:57,680 --> 01:02:59,359 Uh, well, we already gone through this. 1150 01:02:59,359 --> 01:03:00,720 I jumped a little bit ahead. I guess I'm 1151 01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:02,799 channeling my inner Mr. Goodwin 29. 1152 01:03:02,799 --> 01:03:05,520 Please 1153 01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:07,920 say there's posing because now we all 1154 01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,839 know I left it on there. So now we know 1155 01:03:09,839 --> 01:03:11,839 that it's actually for three business 1156 01:03:11,839 --> 01:03:15,200 days and it's still got to follow all 1157 01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:17,680 the same posting requirements 1158 01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:20,880 of the Now the one reason I have it up 1159 01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:22,880 there is to remember if there's been an 1160 01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:25,839 attempt to post it on the website and 1161 01:03:25,839 --> 01:03:28,799 this has happened on occasion um that 1162 01:03:28,799 --> 01:03:31,039 you attempt to post on the website and 1163 01:03:31,039 --> 01:03:33,839 something happens that is beyond our 1164 01:03:33,839 --> 01:03:35,520 control a technical diff and that's 1165 01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:37,520 actually does 1166 01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,000 It's not I'll just say it's not uncommon 1167 01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,480 and let's say there is a day and a half 1168 01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,720 that it wasn't on the web. We're still 1169 01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,760 fine. We can still go that is exception 1170 01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:50,319 043 that talks about hey you know what 1171 01:03:50,319 --> 01:03:51,680 if there's a good faith attempt to post 1172 01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,280 the agenda but there's a technical 1173 01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,559 difficulty which makes it non-compliant 1174 01:03:56,559 --> 01:03:58,720 with the the posting rule three business 1175 01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:01,599 days we're still good. So, it's it's 1176 01:04:01,599 --> 01:04:03,119 important to be aware of things. You 1177 01:04:03,119 --> 01:04:05,359 want to make sure it's fixed, but nobody 1178 01:04:05,359 --> 01:04:06,799 worry if there's a true technical 1179 01:04:06,799 --> 01:04:09,520 difficulty. We're going to be okay. Uh 1180 01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:14,230 30, please. 1181 01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:16,000 That's an example of what agenda looks 1182 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,319 like. Uh Angela's already got this 1183 01:04:18,319 --> 01:04:22,240 nailed down. Um so, we're we're good to 1184 01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:25,280 go on that one. 1185 01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,000 31. Sorry. 1186 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,359 All right. Um we may We go back and Oh, 1187 01:04:31,359 --> 01:04:32,880 no. We got I got it written in there. 1188 01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,760 Good. Yay. Me. So, are four and five on 1189 01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,319 the agenda? Are they sufficient to 1190 01:04:38,319 --> 01:04:40,480 notice the inform the public of the 1191 01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:45,190 subject to be discussed? 1192 01:04:45,200 --> 01:05:03,750 Yes. And no. 1193 01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,240 All right. It's not. In fact, I can't 1194 01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:08,640 stand it. I can't stand city managers 1195 01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:10,960 report, mayor's report. I mean, like 1196 01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,119 whatever that is just opening up the 1197 01:05:13,119 --> 01:05:17,200 door to having a what's it? Long 1198 01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:19,200 detailed conversation about whatever 1199 01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:20,880 they want to whatever they want to talk 1200 01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:22,880 about. Hate it. Hate it. Hate it. I also 1201 01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,520 think the AG opinions back me up on 1202 01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,400 that. I think mayor's report and our 1203 01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,280 mayor does a great job on that updating 1204 01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,559 the uh the uh reclamation and 1205 01:05:34,559 --> 01:05:36,799 restoration in Kirk County like stuff 1206 01:05:36,799 --> 01:05:39,039 like that he puts on the agenda. Now 1207 01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:40,160 there still doesn't need to be 1208 01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:41,680 discussion on that any kind of long 1209 01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:44,079 detail conversation but he can give an 1210 01:05:44,079 --> 01:05:47,280 update talk about it so we do a good job 1211 01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:49,920 on that. But again, you see all the time 1212 01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,079 a lot of cities have departmental 1213 01:05:52,079 --> 01:05:54,880 reports, police report, fire report, 1214 01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:56,960 code enforcement, public works report, 1215 01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,440 all those things. Okay, I guess you can 1216 01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:00,799 just give the report, but you can't 1217 01:06:00,799 --> 01:06:02,400 really talk about it. You can't discuss 1218 01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:04,960 it. I mean, you know, there's no there's 1219 01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:06,799 none of that on there. So, it's real 1220 01:06:06,799 --> 01:06:09,119 important to remember what do you want 1221 01:06:09,119 --> 01:06:11,760 to do with an agenda item? What is it 1222 01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:13,920 you want to have? If you just want to 1223 01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:16,240 let people know about it, we could do 1224 01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:20,400 that. There's nothing almost almost 1225 01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,440 nothing is illegal to have a meeting. 1226 01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,319 What I mean by that is people think you 1227 01:06:26,319 --> 01:06:29,440 are procluded from having discussion on 1228 01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:32,079 the uh with a public during a meeting. 1229 01:06:32,079 --> 01:06:33,440 How many thinks you can't have a 1230 01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:34,640 discussion with the public during the 1231 01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:36,640 meeting? 1232 01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:38,230 >> Like having a back and forth discussion 1233 01:06:38,230 --> 01:06:38,240 » Like having a back and forth discussion 1234 01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:43,029 with the public. 1235 01:06:43,039 --> 01:06:45,599 It's a trick question. If it's not on 1236 01:06:45,599 --> 01:06:50,079 the agenda, absolutely not 100%. But I 1237 01:06:50,079 --> 01:06:51,839 have put on the agenda in certain 1238 01:06:51,839 --> 01:06:54,960 situations discuss with the public 1239 01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:59,280 council and uh public discuss I 8.2 uh 1240 01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,880 platform blah blah blah whatever. Now 1241 01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:04,720 whether you want to do that or not is a 1242 01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:07,200 that's a policy question. It's not 1243 01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:09,760 illegal and you can actually do that. I 1244 01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,000 don't think it's the best policy, but I 1245 01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,480 have a handful of times in my career 1246 01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,760 help city councils do that to to to to 1247 01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,079 foster a public discussion between the 1248 01:07:20,079 --> 01:07:22,079 these citizens that are there, the 1249 01:07:22,079 --> 01:07:24,960 general public and the governing body. 1250 01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:26,799 So that's Mr. Goodwin was on top of 1251 01:07:26,799 --> 01:07:28,880 things. That's that's the issue. Is it 1252 01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:35,109 on the agenda? Uh 33, please. 1253 01:07:35,119 --> 01:07:37,680 Now these are specific statutory 1254 01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:40,160 exceptions. Again, I like that word that 1255 01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:43,280 you can do this. So like when the mayor 1256 01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:44,960 when he gets up there and he goes, "Hey, 1257 01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:46,400 you know what? Beginning of every 1258 01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:48,079 meeting, we like to pick a a name from 1259 01:07:48,079 --> 01:07:49,520 the hat. We like to honor somebody 1260 01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:51,839 that's fallen." Boom. That is 1261 01:07:51,839 --> 01:07:53,760 congratulations, exception. Uh uh 1262 01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:55,680 condolences or thanks. I got no problem 1263 01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:57,599 with that. And he gives a little bit of 1264 01:07:57,599 --> 01:07:59,440 detail about the person that we're 1265 01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,880 honoring. that fits exactly in 1266 01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:04,640 with the items of community interest 1267 01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:06,559 because those are things that that 1268 01:08:06,559 --> 01:08:08,319 typically generally normally there may 1269 01:08:08,319 --> 01:08:10,240 be some people out there that aren't 1270 01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:12,000 interested in in that or don't care 1271 01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:13,599 about it or whatever but typically 1272 01:08:13,599 --> 01:08:15,599 generally normally the general person is 1273 01:08:15,599 --> 01:08:17,040 going to be interested in that and they 1274 01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:18,640 are going to want to know about that. So 1275 01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:20,640 there's that would be falling under one 1276 01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:25,040 of the uh exceptions uh 34 please 1277 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:26,319 because I want to get to the thing that 1278 01:08:26,319 --> 01:08:27,759 you asked about earlier. So, I'm trying 1279 01:08:27,759 --> 01:08:31,120 to to hot foot it. Oh, 1280 01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:32,799 well, we're gonna get All right. I'm I'm 1281 01:08:32,799 --> 01:08:35,359 gonna go faster. So, uh 35. Let me see 1282 01:08:35,359 --> 01:08:36,640 if it's I can't remember if it's next or 1283 01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:40,149 not. 1284 01:08:40,159 --> 01:08:41,839 Okay. Do you all know about this one? 1285 01:08:41,839 --> 01:08:44,080 Can city council change a council 1286 01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,799 meeting from one date to another without 1287 01:08:46,799 --> 01:08:51,030 changing it on the agenda? 1288 01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:55,189 Next slide. 1289 01:08:55,199 --> 01:08:57,120 Ah, see I catch you on that. No, you 1290 01:08:57,120 --> 01:09:00,239 can't. All that's got to be done 1291 01:09:00,239 --> 01:09:03,920 per the uh agenda per at a meeting and 1292 01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:06,799 it nothing can be done in that three-day 1293 01:09:06,799 --> 01:09:08,640 business period. Can't make any changes 1294 01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:11,440 to it. I actually had one city secretary 1295 01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:15,040 and I almost had a literal heart attack 1296 01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:16,640 uh because she told somebody, "Well, 1297 01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:18,799 yeah, you posted the original agenda 1298 01:09:18,799 --> 01:09:21,040 correctly on Monday and then Tuesday 1299 01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:22,880 came around. You can add something to it 1300 01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:25,359 and just you don't even have to How are 1301 01:09:25,359 --> 01:09:26,799 you secretary? You need to be fired 1302 01:09:26,799 --> 01:09:28,080 immediately. What are you talking about? 1303 01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:29,199 I can't believe that you would say 1304 01:09:29,199 --> 01:09:30,880 that." Like that was my reaction in my 1305 01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:34,719 head. No, that agenda can't be changed 1306 01:09:34,719 --> 01:09:38,319 once it's posted um from that first day. 1307 01:09:38,319 --> 01:09:40,080 leave it for the business days. You're 1308 01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:43,199 stuck with that with that agenda. Um, 1309 01:09:43,199 --> 01:09:45,279 and even in a quote addendum, you just 1310 01:09:45,279 --> 01:09:47,440 can't go add stuff to the agenda and 1311 01:09:47,440 --> 01:09:48,560 think you're going to comply with the 1312 01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:51,759 open meetings act. Now, my example was, 1313 01:09:51,759 --> 01:09:53,920 oh, okay, like even for the rule, we 1314 01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:55,840 post it on Monday for a meeting on the 1315 01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:57,840 next Monday. Why don't I just put one 1316 01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:00,080 item on the agenda and then Monday 1317 01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,800 morning, the day of the meeting, add 15 1318 01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:04,640 more? Like, that didn't make it didn't 1319 01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:11,350 make any sense. So, next slide, please. 1320 01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:13,280 Uh, old business. I think we've already 1321 01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:14,320 covered that. You already know the 1322 01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:17,199 answer. Next slide, please. Yeah. No, I 1323 01:10:17,199 --> 01:10:18,880 I I I hate stuff like that. There's got 1324 01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:20,719 to be more. What old business, for 1325 01:10:20,719 --> 01:10:23,520 example? Um, then that's what you see. 1326 01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:25,840 If I'm gonna Good rule of thumb, if I'm 1327 01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:29,440 going to put an item on the agenda, um, 1328 01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:31,040 what I what is it that I want to talk 1329 01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,520 about? That's where you start. So, you 1330 01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:34,960 can come to me and email me and say, 1331 01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:36,960 "This is what I want to talk about. How 1332 01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:39,600 I need to put it on the agenda. Now, the 1333 01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:41,199 mayor has sent me, hey, this is my 1334 01:10:41,199 --> 01:10:42,560 agenda items. It's seven and a half 1335 01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:43,920 pages. Do you think I'm like, okay, we 1336 01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:45,120 can cut that down a little bit, mayor. 1337 01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:48,480 It's it's okay. So, it it doesn't have 1338 01:10:48,480 --> 01:10:51,360 to be too much. So, I I don't want to 1339 01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:53,280 freak everybody out. But you start with 1340 01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:54,640 the first question should be, what is it 1341 01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,560 that I want to talk about? Uh, next 1342 01:10:56,560 --> 01:11:05,270 slide, please. 1343 01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:10,870 What do y'all think about that one? 1344 01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:18,790 » That says public testimony. 1345 01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:20,719 » That is the agenda item. Public 1346 01:11:20,719 --> 01:11:22,480 testimony. So the question is, does that 1347 01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:24,640 agenda item give the public a right to 1348 01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:35,350 speak at open meeting on that? 1349 01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:39,669 All right, next slide. 1350 01:11:39,679 --> 01:11:41,920 Remember what and say I'm going to go 1351 01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:43,199 back to this and y'all going to say 1352 01:11:43,199 --> 01:11:44,640 like, oh, you know what? He may be 1353 01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:46,880 crazy, but I get his logic now. The 1354 01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:49,280 overarching principle, what are meetings 1355 01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:52,239 for? So the public participates and the 1356 01:11:52,239 --> 01:11:55,280 public knows. So, yes. And I'm just 1357 01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:59,600 going to tell y'all, I will always defer 1358 01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:01,920 always defer to giving the public like 1359 01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:04,080 the mayor and bless him. I love the man. 1360 01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:05,280 I don't necessarily have a problem, but 1361 01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:07,920 even he could control the meeting and 1362 01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:10,000 say, "Look, everybody that signed up, 1363 01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:11,840 that's that's why we have you signed up 1364 01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:13,840 so we know who's going to speak." But 1365 01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:15,440 then he goes and says, "Hey, I'm going 1366 01:12:15,440 --> 01:12:17,199 to make sure that everybody else does 1367 01:12:17,199 --> 01:12:19,679 anybody else want to speak?" Okay. He 1368 01:12:19,679 --> 01:12:23,040 could legally we get to define yes they 1369 01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:24,400 have a right to speak but we get to 1370 01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:26,159 define the parameters of how they do it. 1371 01:12:26,159 --> 01:12:29,280 So the mayor could absolutely go we have 1372 01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:31,600 rules you sign up fill out the sheet 1373 01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:33,040 before the meeting starts and it's 1374 01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,679 Angela that's what we're limiting to but 1375 01:12:35,679 --> 01:12:38,320 he also goes the extra mile and I mean 1376 01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:39,840 granted it can make the meeting last 1377 01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:41,760 because we have more people talk but you 1378 01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:43,840 know what that's keeping with the big 1379 01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:47,040 overarching principle of of what we of 1380 01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:49,120 what we of what we do. So there is zero 1381 01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,320 issue with that. Uh no no judge is going 1382 01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:54,080 to come down on somebody because they 1383 01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:56,800 gave the public too much too many 1384 01:12:56,800 --> 01:13:08,229 opportunities to speak. Uh 41 please. 1385 01:13:08,239 --> 01:13:13,510 » Absolutely. Yes. 1386 01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:26,950 Right. 1387 01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:28,640 And that is what the law is. I mean, we 1388 01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:30,400 we can either say, look, everybody is at 1389 01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:31,920 the beginning of we can limit everybody 1390 01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:33,440 to the beginning. You can't put them at 1391 01:13:33,440 --> 01:13:35,920 the end, put them at the beginning, or 1392 01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:37,199 you can say, hey, look, we're going to 1393 01:13:37,199 --> 01:13:38,640 just let everybody sign up for whatever 1394 01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:40,480 agenda item they want to talk on. That 1395 01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:43,120 tends to make the meetings quite long. 1396 01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:45,199 on certain things. So I like how we do 1397 01:13:45,199 --> 01:13:46,719 it. Let everybody speak about whatever 1398 01:13:46,719 --> 01:13:47,600 they want to speak about at the 1399 01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:50,239 beginning because we have a regular 1400 01:13:50,239 --> 01:13:52,000 routine I think of public hearings. So 1401 01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:53,280 there's another opportunity for them to 1402 01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:56,560 speak at that time uh as well. So here 1403 01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:58,480 is and this is something comes up quite 1404 01:13:58,480 --> 01:14:01,440 normally. What can people get away with 1405 01:14:01,440 --> 01:14:04,960 when they're speaking up there? 1406 01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:09,120 My general rule is I almost let them say 1407 01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:12,000 whatever they want to say. I really 1408 01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:14,480 really have a difficult time abridging 1409 01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:15,920 their rights, but there are some 1410 01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:24,310 restrictions put on them. Yes, sir. 1411 01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:25,600 » That is what they're supposed to do 1412 01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,159 because yes, it is citizen comments to 1413 01:14:28,159 --> 01:14:34,229 the public. Yes, 1414 01:14:34,239 --> 01:14:35,920 » the mayor the mayor can absolutely step 1415 01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:38,000 in and say, "Hey, look, you need address 1416 01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:42,080 of comments, you know, but I I got to 1417 01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:43,120 speak up for the mayor a little bit. I 1418 01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:44,320 think he does a good job running the 1419 01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:46,880 meetings. I I'm you know he he's if he 1420 01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:48,320 air heirs it's on the side of giving 1421 01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:50,320 people too much of an opportunity which 1422 01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:57,110 is always the side you want to air on. 1423 01:14:57,120 --> 01:14:59,760 » Um so you know you can't get up there 1424 01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:02,719 and yell and scream and and defame or uh 1425 01:15:02,719 --> 01:15:05,360 abuse people and use indecent language. 1426 01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:07,920 You can't do that kind of stuff. Um you 1427 01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:10,640 know so there are some guidelines. Go 1428 01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:12,880 ahead. 1429 01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:15,520 Oh, no, no, no, no. Look, here's the 1430 01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:18,080 thing. I And I They're gone now, so I 1431 01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:20,880 can say it. I was about um You may 1432 01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,080 remember the council members better than 1433 01:15:22,080 --> 01:15:23,360 me, even though you weren't you were in 1434 01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:24,960 Lancaster at the time. I was in a 1435 01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:26,880 Duncanville meeting, and they were 1436 01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:28,239 talking about two council members could 1437 01:15:28,239 --> 01:15:29,920 not stand each other, but I did got 1438 01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,719 physical. And I said, "Look, 1439 01:15:32,719 --> 01:15:35,600 if the meeting is going on, 1440 01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:37,760 I don't care if one council member stabs 1441 01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:39,280 the other one. Make sure he's safe. Make 1442 01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:40,880 sure take his knife away. You can 1443 01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:42,800 handcuff from the chair, but you don't 1444 01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:44,719 arrest them during the meeting. You wait 1445 01:15:44,719 --> 01:15:46,320 until after the meeting. That's how 1446 01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:49,679 sacrosanct I think legislative immunity 1447 01:15:49,679 --> 01:15:52,080 is. And really, the only time that y'all 1448 01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:53,760 have immunity is when you're acting as 1449 01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:56,800 legislators. Well, when is that? 1450 01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:59,760 When you're up here now. Okay, Council 1451 01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:01,199 Dean, that doesn't mean you go slug 1452 01:16:01,199 --> 01:16:02,400 somebody, you know, during the meeting 1453 01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:04,000 and say, "Oh, Michael said it's okay." 1454 01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:05,920 That is not what I'm saying. But I'm 1455 01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:07,760 trying to give you an example of how 1456 01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:10,239 sacroanked I think the legislative 1457 01:16:10,239 --> 01:16:14,800 immunity uh principle really is. Um 1458 01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:16,560 and I think the mayor the mayor kind of 1459 01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:18,640 like it was kind of cool. He he had you 1460 01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:20,159 did somebody have a meeting I think 1461 01:16:20,159 --> 01:16:22,640 didn't you with the scuba Steve. 1462 01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:24,070 >> Yeah. Yeah. That was pretty so right 1463 01:16:24,070 --> 01:16:24,080 » Yeah. Yeah. That was pretty so right 1464 01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:26,320 there. Disrupting a meeting by physical 1465 01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:29,520 uh action or uh verbal utterance that is 1466 01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,600 actually also in the government code. So 1467 01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:33,440 uh Mr. 1468 01:16:33,440 --> 01:16:35,590 >> Oh yeah yeah yeah. He kind of I think he 1469 01:16:35,590 --> 01:16:35,600 » Oh yeah yeah yeah. He kind of I think he 1470 01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:38,640 kind of enjoyed it though. Tweeting me 1471 01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:40,800 pretty much on the third. 1472 01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:42,630 >> Oh yeah. Well, he was warned and then he 1473 01:16:42,630 --> 01:16:42,640 » Oh yeah. Well, he was warned and then he 1474 01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:44,719 just did it. Yeah. I I think he was a 1475 01:16:44,719 --> 01:16:45,840 little irritated because he got the 1476 01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:46,880 warning after the first time. He's like, 1477 01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:48,080 "Well, I got to do it two more times 1478 01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:52,480 now." I think that's what he did. Uh 1479 01:16:52,480 --> 01:16:54,149 >> yeah. Yeah. See? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I 1480 01:16:54,149 --> 01:16:54,159 » yeah. Yeah. See? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I 1481 01:16:54,159 --> 01:17:00,880 think Yeah. Um Okay. Uh 42, please. 1482 01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:05,750 Okay. Um 1483 01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:09,360 So, these are good rules for 1484 01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:12,159 um I don't I put third on there because 1485 01:17:12,159 --> 01:17:13,760 that's in the statute, but really the 1486 01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:17,199 two the two that you got to know of what 1487 01:17:17,199 --> 01:17:19,600 can you respond to public if it's not on 1488 01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:23,120 the agenda. You can state a fact. Hey, 1489 01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:24,960 yeah, you know what? The Earth Day event 1490 01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:29,120 is uh this Saturday, September the 1491 01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:32,159 7th. Yeah, Earth Day is September 27th. 1492 01:17:32,159 --> 01:17:34,000 That's a fact. You can even not on 1493 01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:38,640 there. Um, hey, our policy is to have 1494 01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:41,040 the city manager present at Earth Day 1495 01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:43,600 and he's the one uh doing all the dirty 1496 01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:46,640 work. That's our you can you can say 1497 01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:48,480 that that's a statement of the policy 1498 01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:50,880 that we have. Those types of things you 1499 01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:54,080 are allowed to do um without when the 1500 01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:56,159 items aren't on the agenda. The issue 1501 01:17:56,159 --> 01:17:59,040 becomes is not so much with the fact one 1502 01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:01,440 but like a policy. Oh, well, you know, 1503 01:18:01,440 --> 01:18:02,960 if that's a policy we had a city 1504 01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:04,159 administrator, is he really going to be 1505 01:18:04,159 --> 01:18:05,920 out there on Earth Day throwing trash 1506 01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:08,239 away and doing? It leads to potential 1507 01:18:08,239 --> 01:18:10,800 discussion of things. That's that's the 1508 01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:13,280 concern that I have. But again, it's not 1509 01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:16,560 my job to tell you uh to do it for you, 1510 01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:18,320 tell you what the law is. I'm sharing 1511 01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:19,600 you what the law is. I'm telling you 1512 01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:21,600 what my concerns are so everybody can be 1513 01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:23,679 aware of. 443, 1514 01:18:23,679 --> 01:18:31,189 please. 1515 01:18:31,199 --> 01:18:33,360 If I can run real fast through the the 1516 01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:35,040 walking quorum. Do you really have to? 1517 01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:36,719 Okay. 1518 01:18:36,719 --> 01:18:37,990 >> Sorry. All right. I want to get there. 1519 01:18:37,990 --> 01:18:38,000 » Sorry. All right. I want to get there. 1520 01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:44,229 All right. Um, 1521 01:18:44,239 --> 01:18:45,600 » you can get together with the other 1522 01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:47,040 council members to talk about it if you 1523 01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:51,990 want. 1524 01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:53,600 » Absolutely. Yeah. See, he learned his 1525 01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:55,920 lesson. Well, very nice. Very nice. All 1526 01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:58,400 right. Uh can a may a governmental body 1527 01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:00,239 continue a meeting the next day? So the 1528 01:19:00,239 --> 01:19:02,159 meeting last night if council say hey 1529 01:19:02,159 --> 01:19:03,520 look we want to continue it tomorrow. 1530 01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:05,760 Can they do that? 1531 01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:10,070 >> Anybody vote no? 1532 01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:11,840 » Y all think that everybody thinks you 1533 01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:18,630 can do that. 1534 01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:22,080 » You go to 44 or 45 46 whatever. Yes you 1535 01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:25,120 can. Yes. 1536 01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:26,310 >> Yeah. 1537 01:19:26,310 --> 01:19:26,320 » Yeah. 1538 01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:28,000 I couldn't get anybody to bite on that. 1539 01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:32,400 Sheesh, man. Um I just paid Eddie to say 1540 01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:35,440 it off. 1541 01:19:35,440 --> 01:19:37,110 >> Oh, really? So, yeah, I think come back 1542 01:19:37,110 --> 01:19:37,120 » Oh, really? So, yeah, I think come back 1543 01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:44,790 the next day. Uh 40 was 47. 1544 01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:47,920 » All right. So, this this gets this comes 1545 01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:50,640 up more often than you think. Can we 1546 01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:52,960 call emergency meeting? 1547 01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:55,280 Well, we got a real big problem where at 1548 01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:57,360 all is out of toilet paper. It's a mess. 1549 01:19:57,360 --> 01:19:59,520 It's It's an emergency. It's a No, it's 1550 01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:01,679 not. Okay. I know it's not good. I know 1551 01:20:01,679 --> 01:20:05,040 it's bad, but you know what? Uh uh send 1552 01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:07,040 Angel out to the 7-Eleven and she can 1553 01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:09,920 get some. So, understanding what an 1554 01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:12,080 actual emergency is, like for example, 1555 01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:15,199 Kirk County, that was an emergency. That 1556 01:20:15,199 --> 01:20:17,120 was like a national disaster. I think I 1557 01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:19,679 put it on here uh because it's been a 1558 01:20:19,679 --> 01:20:21,520 while. Yeah. Fire, flood, earthquake, 1559 01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:23,120 hurricane turnout, wind, rain, or 1560 01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:25,280 snowstorm. Those are what we're talking 1561 01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:27,760 about are the types of emergencies and 1562 01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:30,000 it has been changed. You only have to 1563 01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:33,840 give one hour notice. I mean I I don't 1564 01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:35,120 know whether what I think about they 1565 01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:36,800 change it from two hours to one but you 1566 01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:39,920 got to give one hour notice. But that is 1567 01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:43,120 um uh and I always have to do I always 1568 01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:44,320 have to do the last one because I've 1569 01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:46,719 been asked that 1570 01:20:46,719 --> 01:20:48,400 you know 14 times for every city I've 1571 01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:49,840 represented at the time. What do I 1572 01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:52,159 forgot to put it on the agenda? Sorry. 1573 01:20:52,159 --> 01:20:54,159 got to wait till the next meeting or you 1574 01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:56,320 can call a special meeting. Next, 1575 01:20:56,320 --> 01:21:03,510 please. 1576 01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:20,149 » Will you go back to the last 1577 01:21:20,159 --> 01:21:22,880 emergency? 1578 01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:24,640 It's got to be for us. It's got to be 1579 01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:27,440 for us. I was g So, I'm glad you asked 1580 01:21:27,440 --> 01:21:28,960 about that. I I didn't know that I was 1581 01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:31,679 confusing people, so I apologize. What I 1582 01:21:31,679 --> 01:21:34,960 meant is if if Ker County was calling an 1583 01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:37,679 emergency meeting, then for them that 1584 01:21:37,679 --> 01:21:40,400 absolutely was a emergency. One hour was 1585 01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:42,000 all the notice they needed post on the 1586 01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:43,840 agenda, yada yada yada. So, thank you 1587 01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:45,360 for 1588 01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:47,679 uh Next one, Angela. I really like the 1589 01:21:47,679 --> 01:21:50,320 slide, too, because it reminds me of of 1590 01:21:50,320 --> 01:22:03,110 uh 1591 01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:04,560 Angel was told me to put that in there. 1592 01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:08,639 So, it wasn't my idea. Next one, please. 1593 01:22:08,639 --> 01:22:11,440 All right. Guess who is the record 1594 01:22:11,440 --> 01:22:15,590 keeper of the city? 1595 01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:18,880 » 22073 right there. She is responsible 1596 01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:21,600 for all the records and I'm so glad it 1597 01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:25,360 is Angela now. Um she we had a huge 1598 01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:29,040 issue yesterday a real uh fooar and uh 1599 01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:31,280 our cluster if you watched Heartbreak 1600 01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:33,520 Break Ridge with Cleanswood she fixed 1601 01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:35,679 it. So thank you Angela you were 1602 01:22:35,679 --> 01:22:40,560 fantastic. Um now what I also like about 1603 01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:43,600 what Angela does is you see people 1604 01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:45,760 coming in how much is really required in 1605 01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:48,000 minutes? I've seen minutes that are a 1606 01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:50,239 book. They're this long. You don't need 1607 01:22:50,239 --> 01:22:52,480 all that stuff. There's no specific 1608 01:22:52,480 --> 01:22:54,719 provisions. There's basically a minimum. 1609 01:22:54,719 --> 01:22:57,440 What I prefer to have on there, I prefer 1610 01:22:57,440 --> 01:23:00,480 to have the agenda item. 1611 01:23:00,480 --> 01:23:02,400 Council member A made a motion. It was 1612 01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:04,880 seconded by council member B. This was 1613 01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:07,520 the vote. So, the motion passed or the 1614 01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:09,920 motion failed, whatever. Boom. Now 1615 01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:12,000 you're done with minutes. You move on to 1616 01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:16,480 the next one. I don't like 1617 01:23:16,480 --> 01:23:18,080 There's, again, I told you I like 1618 01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:19,840 exceptions. I don't like a lot of 1619 01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:21,120 details in the minutes because then 1620 01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:23,120 you're stuck with them. What if 1621 01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:24,400 something happened, somebody said 1622 01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,320 something and that's not what they 1623 01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:29,440 really said, boom, you're stuck with it. 1624 01:23:29,440 --> 01:23:32,320 City of Austin, v. Whittington, 2005, 1625 01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:35,199 Austin Court of Appeals. A city 1626 01:23:35,199 --> 01:23:37,199 officially speaks through its 1627 01:23:37,199 --> 01:23:40,639 ordinances, resolutions, and minutes, 1628 01:23:40,639 --> 01:23:43,199 quote unquote. So, the minutes are very 1629 01:23:43,199 --> 01:23:46,480 important. It's not just a 1630 01:23:46,480 --> 01:23:47,840 that's a pain in the butt bookkeeping 1631 01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:49,840 thing we got to do. I mean it is that 1632 01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:52,480 but it's not just that. It is the 1633 01:23:52,480 --> 01:23:54,400 official statement and you're stuck with 1634 01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:57,280 it as a city. So they are important for 1635 01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:00,400 that. Now there are certain things and 1636 01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:02,480 it's a little more applicable to us than 1637 01:24:02,480 --> 01:24:05,199 to some other people I represent. I do 1638 01:24:05,199 --> 01:24:08,639 like a little more detail when it comes 1639 01:24:08,639 --> 01:24:10,400 to city council delivering on things 1640 01:24:10,400 --> 01:24:13,360 like zoning. Why is that? Well, if the 1641 01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:16,000 zoning is ever contested, now we've got 1642 01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:19,199 an official in the record 1643 01:24:19,199 --> 01:24:21,440 what the city council considered and 1644 01:24:21,440 --> 01:24:23,600 what people said when let's say you 1645 01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:25,679 choose to deny it. And everybody said, 1646 01:24:25,679 --> 01:24:26,960 "Well, it's going to cause pollution. 1647 01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:28,719 It's going to cause noise. It really 1648 01:24:28,719 --> 01:24:30,960 doesn't fit with the overall scheme, you 1649 01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:33,120 know, in this area." Now, you've got all 1650 01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:35,040 that in the minutes that the city 1651 01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:37,120 council base their decision on. And a 1652 01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:38,880 judge, whether they agree with it or 1653 01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:41,360 not, they still have to consider. So, 1654 01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:44,000 there are it's an exception. So there 1655 01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:46,880 are times when 1656 01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:49,679 less is more isn't the best way to do 1657 01:24:49,679 --> 01:24:52,960 that. So um 1658 01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:59,590 48 or nine or whatever we're on now, 1659 01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:06,149 B or D 1660 01:25:06,159 --> 01:25:12,310 » forever. Okay. 1661 01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:15,040 Why do you say just curiosity? 1662 01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:21,510 >> Why did you say B out of curiosity? 1663 01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:24,639 » Probably record retention act. Okay. All 1664 01:25:24,639 --> 01:25:28,320 right. Uh so raise hands. Who says two 1665 01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:32,800 years? Anybody? No. Who says five years? 1666 01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:36,159 Okay. Who says 10 years? 1667 01:25:36,159 --> 01:25:38,950 >> Okay. Who said forever? Anybody else say 1668 01:25:38,950 --> 01:25:38,960 » Okay. Who said forever? Anybody else say 1669 01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:43,280 forever? Okay. Dang, you got it right. 1670 01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:46,480 Next one. Yes, we got to keep our reg. 1671 01:25:46,480 --> 01:25:48,080 Well, that's still funny, but that's not 1672 01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:52,560 the Yeah, I do. That is so us. That is 1673 01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:55,440 so us. 1674 01:25:55,440 --> 01:25:58,480 Yes, we are stuck with our records 1675 01:25:58,480 --> 01:26:00,239 because there are people that are going 1676 01:26:00,239 --> 01:26:02,719 to look for our I just did a lawsuit uh 1677 01:26:02,719 --> 01:26:04,800 for a city and we were looking at 1678 01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:07,520 ordinances the city had passed in 2008. 1679 01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,880 Lawsuit started in 2022. So 14 years 1680 01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:13,040 prior we were looking at those things. 1681 01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:15,760 You got to keep got to keep records. Got 1682 01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:18,480 to keep records. 1683 01:26:18,480 --> 01:26:20,719 Now there are certain which is why I was 1684 01:26:20,719 --> 01:26:22,800 asking about you the records retention 1685 01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:26,000 act there are certain records minutes or 1686 01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:27,679 recordings of meetings and things like 1687 01:26:27,679 --> 01:26:30,480 that ordinances resolutions those are 1688 01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:32,960 forever but there are certain things 1689 01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:35,360 that and that's a it's a list on on the 1690 01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:37,280 schedule that's five years and you just 1691 01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:38,639 got to keep them and you're good you can 1692 01:26:38,639 --> 01:26:41,040 toss them but our minutes and our 1693 01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:49,990 ordinances are forever uh 50 Please. 1694 01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:53,760 Now, uh we've got to record minutes uh 1695 01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:57,679 record meetings because we are um uh 1696 01:26:57,679 --> 01:26:59,280 we've been doing that. We've got the 1697 01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:00,560 capability to do that and we've 1698 01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:02,000 institute that. So, we got to continue 1699 01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:04,719 to record the meetings and keep those uh 1700 01:27:04,719 --> 01:27:07,040 recordings as well. There are, you know, 1701 01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:10,000 if we were over 50,000 and or a county 1702 01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:11,679 uh if both of those existed, then we'd 1703 01:27:11,679 --> 01:27:14,159 have to as a matter of law. We have to 1704 01:27:14,159 --> 01:27:15,840 because we chosen to start that. You 1705 01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:18,159 can't really 1706 01:27:18,159 --> 01:27:19,760 Which is why if you look at the first 1707 01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:22,239 one, uh, make a video and audio 1708 01:27:22,239 --> 01:27:23,840 recording of reasonable quality of each 1709 01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:25,679 regular schedule. Why I've been so 1710 01:27:25,679 --> 01:27:27,840 nervous until the mayor and Angela got 1711 01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:29,199 here because our recordings have been 1712 01:27:29,199 --> 01:27:31,920 crap for so long. 1713 01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:34,480 So, um, I'm glad that we've got them and 1714 01:27:34,480 --> 01:27:38,000 they have they have fixed that. Uh, 51. 1715 01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:39,360 That's a good little thing for for 1716 01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:43,750 Angela to know. 1717 01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:48,080 So these are a little uh requirement 52. 1718 01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:49,679 I like to throw some of those things in 1719 01:27:49,679 --> 01:27:52,480 there. So can y'all hold a meeting if 1720 01:27:52,480 --> 01:28:01,510 there is uh not a quorum present? 1721 01:28:01,520 --> 01:28:07,590 » Anybody say no? 1722 01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:10,960 All right. Go to 53. 1723 01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:14,560 Here's why where I put no. 1724 01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:16,400 You guys are right. Council member 1725 01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:17,920 London, the mayor, y'all are right. But 1726 01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:19,920 you're like, well, you put no. It's 1727 01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:22,239 because it's not a meeting. Remember 1728 01:28:22,239 --> 01:28:25,040 what our definition is. The first part 1729 01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:27,520 of it is got to have a quorum. So, if 1730 01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:29,760 you don't have a quorum, not a meeting. 1731 01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:32,000 See, you guys were right, but you I 1732 01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:35,280 helped you learn why you were right. 1733 01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:42,709 >> Uh 54. 1734 01:28:42,719 --> 01:28:44,719 Do not think it escaped my attention 1735 01:28:44,719 --> 01:28:46,800 that your right-hand man is now for 1736 01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:48,800 Reese and not me. Just, you know, just 1737 01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:53,920 gonna say that. Uh, let's see. 1738 01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:55,510 >> That's good for y'all just kind of have 1739 01:28:55,510 --> 01:28:55,520 » That's good for y'all just kind of have 1740 01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:58,719 an idea. You know, they can record the 1741 01:28:58,719 --> 01:29:02,000 meetings because I know that we've had, 1742 01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:03,520 you know, one or two citizens that like 1743 01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:05,760 to record our meetings. They can choose 1744 01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:07,840 to do that, but unlike what their 1745 01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:09,199 position was, they can't just choose to 1746 01:29:09,199 --> 01:29:10,480 do it wherever the heck they want to do 1747 01:29:10,480 --> 01:29:12,560 it. They they can't cause a disruption. 1748 01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:15,280 They can't be in the way. Um they can do 1749 01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:17,679 it where the mayor uh as the one who 1750 01:29:17,679 --> 01:29:21,120 runs the meeting sets it up. Um now, I 1751 01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:22,639 know I had to tell the mayor on this one 1752 01:29:22,639 --> 01:29:24,719 particular person uh we can't send them 1753 01:29:24,719 --> 01:29:26,560 up to the second floor. And if y'all 1754 01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:27,840 have a notice, we don't have a second 1755 01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:29,360 floor. That would be the roof. He can't 1756 01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:30,639 send it to the second floor to record 1757 01:29:30,639 --> 01:29:33,679 it. But you can control, you know, 1758 01:29:33,679 --> 01:29:35,520 generally where it is in in the meeting 1759 01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:37,280 area. And same thing for P and D. I'd 1760 01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:40,000 say the chair, you know, it happens. 1761 01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:49,189 Same type same type of deal. Um 55. 1762 01:29:49,199 --> 01:29:50,560 Now we're getting into the executive 1763 01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:53,360 session. So this is more detail. Anybody 1764 01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:58,149 needs a break, let me know. 56. 1765 01:29:58,159 --> 01:30:00,880 All right. So, we actually we probably 1766 01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:03,760 covered a little bit of this, but I want 1767 01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:05,440 y'all to have the procedure because a 1768 01:30:05,440 --> 01:30:08,320 PNZ ever goes in exact session. 1769 01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:10,400 It's going to apply to y'all as well. 1770 01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:13,120 So, the the PNC chair or the mayor as 1771 01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:15,040 the case may be, y'all have the opening 1772 01:30:15,040 --> 01:30:17,360 meeting, you convene, then you y'all are 1773 01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:18,960 presiding officer. So, y'all are going 1774 01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:20,159 to announce, hey, we're going into 1775 01:30:20,159 --> 01:30:22,880 executive session and we're doing it on 1776 01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:25,520 through this specific statute, you know, 1777 01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,320 I don't know, 551087. 1778 01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:31,840 up discussing to discuss an economic 1779 01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:34,159 development uh project, you know, just 1780 01:30:34,159 --> 01:30:36,239 by way of example and you quote the 1781 01:30:36,239 --> 01:30:38,880 section and then you go now Angela knows 1782 01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:40,480 you got to keep a copy of the certified 1783 01:30:40,480 --> 01:30:44,159 agenda. Now you got two choices. You can 1784 01:30:44,159 --> 01:30:46,159 keep a copy of certified agenda which is 1785 01:30:46,159 --> 01:30:48,239 literally a piece of paper that is 1786 01:30:48,239 --> 01:30:49,679 signed by the mayor and signed by the 1787 01:30:49,679 --> 01:30:51,840 Angela and then we seal it up and it 1788 01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:53,600 just says, "Hey, this is what was 1789 01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:55,920 discussed exact session and that's it." 1790 01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:58,560 Your other option is to have an actual 1791 01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:00,560 recording 1792 01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:02,320 of what 1793 01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:04,320 happens in executive session. And I can 1794 01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:06,960 just tell you from 1795 01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:08,800 literally going to thousands of ex 1796 01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:10,400 executive sessions, that's the last 1797 01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:11,840 thing anybody wants to do is actually 1798 01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:13,600 have an audio recording of what happens 1799 01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:18,800 in an executive session. So 57, 1800 01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:21,679 but it isn't either war. 1801 01:31:21,679 --> 01:31:24,960 So, just so y'all are aware, it's not a 1802 01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:27,120 huge thing, but that's what the 1803 01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:29,360 certified agenda requires. And I have 1804 01:31:29,360 --> 01:31:31,280 sent Angela a template. It's what we use 1805 01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:32,719 every time. So, if y'all are ever 1806 01:31:32,719 --> 01:31:34,239 interested in looking at it and seeing 1807 01:31:34,239 --> 01:31:37,600 it, um, you can do that. It's just a 1808 01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:40,400 list of who's there, who's present, and 1809 01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:43,440 the item that was discussed. And that's 1810 01:31:43,440 --> 01:31:46,400 that. Um, 1811 01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:51,110 let's see. Uh, 58. 1812 01:31:51,120 --> 01:31:52,800 So, may a member of the governmental 1813 01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:54,480 body or staff release a copy of the 1814 01:31:54,480 --> 01:31:56,159 certified agenda or recording of a 1815 01:31:56,159 --> 01:31:58,000 closed meeting to the public? Remember 1816 01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:00,000 our umbrella rule, everything's open to 1817 01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:02,960 the public. So, the question is A, B, C, 1818 01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:17,430 or D? 1819 01:32:17,440 --> 01:32:26,229 Anybody 1820 01:32:26,239 --> 01:32:30,790 want to go with B or C? 1821 01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:34,239 So everybody is either A or D. Okay, 1822 01:32:34,239 --> 01:32:39,110 Angela, reveal the answer, please. 1823 01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:42,639 It is in fact, it is in fact a criminal 1824 01:32:42,639 --> 01:32:46,080 offense, class B misdemeanor, to release 1825 01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:48,080 a certified agenda without the order of 1826 01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:50,239 a district court judge. Not a county 1827 01:32:50,239 --> 01:32:53,360 court of law judge, not a federal judge, 1828 01:32:53,360 --> 01:32:55,840 not a municipal court judge, not a JP, 1829 01:32:55,840 --> 01:32:57,600 but a district court judge. That is 1830 01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:00,639 actually in statute. So, it's good to 1831 01:33:00,639 --> 01:33:02,320 see our former chief of police got us 1832 01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:04,639 all thrown in jail. That is good. That's 1833 01:33:04,639 --> 01:33:08,560 good. So that that is how sacroyn the 1834 01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:11,360 certified agendas are. But again looking 1835 01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:13,199 at it it's not really intimidating. So 1836 01:33:13,199 --> 01:33:14,800 you might want to just see the form and 1837 01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:16,080 how it is and you can even see the 1838 01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:18,159 certified agenda if you go to a meeting 1839 01:33:18,159 --> 01:33:20,480 any executive session. Hey Angela, can I 1840 01:33:20,480 --> 01:33:21,840 see that before you seal it up? Because 1841 01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:25,679 once it's sealed up, it's sealed up. Uh 1842 01:33:25,679 --> 01:33:30,709 60 please. 1843 01:33:30,719 --> 01:33:33,360 Now, uh, and I love the fact, I can't 1844 01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:35,679 help it because he did it to himself, 1845 01:33:35,679 --> 01:33:38,639 but, uh, Mr. Bob Steinhagen when he 1846 01:33:38,639 --> 01:33:40,480 disagreed with me, he actually cited the 1847 01:33:40,480 --> 01:33:42,639 same cases I cited. So, really, he does 1848 01:33:42,639 --> 01:33:44,000 agree with me. He just doesn't know how 1849 01:33:44,000 --> 01:33:46,560 to apply what he reads. So, who can 1850 01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:54,629 attend the executive session? 1851 01:33:54,639 --> 01:33:56,880 anybody that you're the PNZ governing 1852 01:33:56,880 --> 01:33:58,320 body or the council of the governing 1853 01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:00,960 body deems to be necessary for the 1854 01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:02,560 agenda item that you're going into 1855 01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:05,920 executive session over that's now there 1856 01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:08,719 are some specific exceptions crafted by 1857 01:34:08,719 --> 01:34:14,000 case law not by statute give an example 1858 01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:15,760 if you are in a real estate deal with 1859 01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:18,400 someone you cannot take them into like 1860 01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:20,560 they're in a contract to buy cannot take 1861 01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:22,800 them into executive session. If you're 1862 01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:25,600 in the midst of a lawsuit with another 1863 01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:28,480 side, you can't go back into executive 1864 01:34:28,480 --> 01:34:31,760 session. So, it's very very important 1865 01:34:31,760 --> 01:34:34,880 that you note the last part is it may 1866 01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:37,440 not admit a person and it it's not a 1867 01:34:37,440 --> 01:34:40,800 period. It does not stop there. It said 1868 01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:43,440 whose presence is against the interest 1869 01:34:43,440 --> 01:34:46,800 of the governmental body. 1870 01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:49,600 That's the key. Is the presence against 1871 01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:51,679 the interest? If it is someone the 1872 01:34:51,679 --> 01:34:54,400 governmental body says, I think their 1873 01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:57,120 their presence is necessary to help me 1874 01:34:57,120 --> 01:35:00,320 understand or make a decision out in 1875 01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:04,080 public about an agenda item. That person 1876 01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:06,239 is not their presence is not against the 1877 01:35:06,239 --> 01:35:07,920 interest of the governmental body. 1878 01:35:07,920 --> 01:35:10,000 That's the phrase right there. He also 1879 01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:13,600 got a 1995 uh district of Texas case uh 1880 01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:18,080 that also supports that. 61, please. 1881 01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:20,159 I think y'all well y'all got I already 1882 01:35:20,159 --> 01:35:23,199 mentioned 087 we mentioned 072 you know 1883 01:35:23,199 --> 01:35:26,400 real property now don't be confused we 1884 01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:28,880 can go back and talk about a real 1885 01:35:28,880 --> 01:35:30,880 property deal that's fine you can go 1886 01:35:30,880 --> 01:35:32,239 specifically on that and in fact you 1887 01:35:32,239 --> 01:35:34,239 don't even need the attorney for 072 1888 01:35:34,239 --> 01:35:36,800 y'all can go back and talk about that 1889 01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:38,880 the the thing about that you can't do is 1890 01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:40,719 the person that you're going to buy or 1891 01:35:40,719 --> 01:35:43,360 sell the property to or from that person 1892 01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:45,120 can't go back so just want to make sure 1893 01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:48,000 that you personnel matters. That's what 1894 01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:50,560 I quoted earlier, 074 A1. There's also 1895 01:35:50,560 --> 01:35:53,440 A2. Um, y'all can go out executive 1896 01:35:53,440 --> 01:35:56,000 session. You don't technically need uh a 1897 01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:59,040 uh the city attorney for those types of 1898 01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:04,070 things. Uh 62, please. 1899 01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:06,159 Again, note what what is the on the 1900 01:36:06,159 --> 01:36:09,280 third line? Common exceptions. The 1901 01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:11,760 general rule is you can't go into 1902 01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:13,679 executive session. Everything's got to 1903 01:36:13,679 --> 01:36:16,560 be discussed out in public. 1904 01:36:16,560 --> 01:36:18,480 Now, here's the thing, too, and I and I 1905 01:36:18,480 --> 01:36:20,000 want to be fully and completely 1906 01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:23,120 transparent. I will, if anything ever 1907 01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:26,159 happens, I will take on the AG free of 1908 01:36:26,159 --> 01:36:28,400 charge. I think they've got some very 1909 01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:30,719 poor opinion writers. I think they're 1910 01:36:30,719 --> 01:36:32,560 too in some of them are way too 1911 01:36:32,560 --> 01:36:34,719 influenced by politics. Well, what do 1912 01:36:34,719 --> 01:36:38,320 you mean? We have a catchall 1913 01:36:38,320 --> 01:36:40,480 and we've used it for years at the 1914 01:36:40,480 --> 01:36:43,520 bottom that says very clearly the city 1915 01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:46,080 council may go into executive session on 1916 01:36:46,080 --> 01:36:49,520 any agenda item pursuant to 5510712 1917 01:36:49,520 --> 01:36:52,080 to consult with the city attorney about 1918 01:36:52,080 --> 01:36:54,960 that particular item. For years, the AG 1919 01:36:54,960 --> 01:36:58,000 had never addressed it. I think maybe 1920 01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:00,480 year maybe two, there's an AG opinion 1921 01:37:00,480 --> 01:37:03,360 out there that thinks that's not enough. 1922 01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:05,920 I think that is 1923 01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:09,040 one of the poorest legal reasoning and 1924 01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:11,360 rationale I have ever encountered. And I 1925 01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:12,800 and I will tell this to somebody. It's 1926 01:37:12,800 --> 01:37:14,880 recorded. You can show it to the AG. I 1927 01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:16,080 think they should be embarrassed for 1928 01:37:16,080 --> 01:37:17,679 that decision because what you're 1929 01:37:17,679 --> 01:37:19,520 telling me is in the middle of a 1930 01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:21,760 meeting. You could have a very serious 1931 01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:23,760 issue that's on the agenda properly 1932 01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:26,239 posted and a council member goes, "Well, 1933 01:37:26,239 --> 01:37:27,920 crap. What are the legal consequences 1934 01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:29,600 for this?" Well, we didn't specifically 1935 01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:31,440 put it on the agenda and the deadline to 1936 01:37:31,440 --> 01:37:33,360 make a decision is tonight. So, you're 1937 01:37:33,360 --> 01:37:34,960 kind of screwed according to the AG. 1938 01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:38,320 That's crap. No. And I will fight the AG 1939 01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:40,400 free of charge if we're ever challenged 1940 01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:43,360 on that. The council should be 1941 01:37:43,360 --> 01:37:46,239 encouraged encourage to go, "Wait a 1942 01:37:46,239 --> 01:37:49,040 minute. I got legal questions about this 1943 01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:51,199 particular agenda item. We didn't 1944 01:37:51,199 --> 01:37:53,119 specifically say it was going to be for 1945 01:37:53,119 --> 01:37:54,880 attorney, but I don't know how to make a 1946 01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:56,400 decision without knowing the legal 1947 01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:57,520 consequence, and I don't feel 1948 01:37:57,520 --> 01:37:59,199 comfortable doing that in public because 1949 01:37:59,199 --> 01:38:00,880 that's going to give away all my 1950 01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:02,400 thinking, everything I may have on this 1951 01:38:02,400 --> 01:38:04,480 decision. 1952 01:38:04,480 --> 01:38:06,880 That seems to be the poorest public 1953 01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:09,119 policy to say a council can't do that. 1954 01:38:09,119 --> 01:38:11,199 Okay. So, but I want to make everybody 1955 01:38:11,199 --> 01:38:14,239 aware there is a very recent AG opinion 1956 01:38:14,239 --> 01:38:15,840 that says that. I wholeheartedly 1957 01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:18,400 couldn't possibly disagree more uh with 1958 01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:20,639 that. And I think the fact because it's 1959 01:38:20,639 --> 01:38:22,639 it's noticed on the agenda. It says very 1960 01:38:22,639 --> 01:38:24,400 clearly we could go. Now, you don't 1961 01:38:24,400 --> 01:38:26,239 necessarily know, but a person can look 1962 01:38:26,239 --> 01:38:28,159 at that agenda and go, "Oh, that thing 1963 01:38:28,159 --> 01:38:29,679 about buying or selling the fire 1964 01:38:29,679 --> 01:38:31,199 station, that's on the agenda." And then 1965 01:38:31,199 --> 01:38:32,960 at the bottom, they could go get legal 1966 01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:34,800 advice about that. They're aware of 1967 01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:37,600 that. That fits what we talked about. 1968 01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:40,320 People need to have a general idea of 1969 01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:42,080 what's being discussed and what could 1970 01:38:42,080 --> 01:38:44,320 happen. So, there you go. Uh, next one, 1971 01:38:44,320 --> 01:38:50,310 please. 1972 01:38:50,320 --> 01:38:52,159 This is what I wanted Mr. Good to be 1973 01:38:52,159 --> 01:38:59,590 here for. 1974 01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:01,119 Oh, wait. What are you doing, Angela? 1975 01:39:01,119 --> 01:39:03,840 Hold on. Let me read that one. It's not 1976 01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:05,520 as good as the one where the minutes 1977 01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:07,040 where the guy says, you know, it should 1978 01:39:07,040 --> 01:39:08,719 be noticed that every minute is like an 1979 01:39:08,719 --> 01:39:12,239 hour, but this is still pretty good. 1980 01:39:12,239 --> 01:39:13,760 And you notice everybody's winking at 1981 01:39:13,760 --> 01:39:16,080 each other. Okay. So, this is gonna get 1982 01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:17,679 into 1983 01:39:17,679 --> 01:39:19,440 now you may proceed. Angela, thank you 1984 01:39:19,440 --> 01:39:21,679 so much. 1985 01:39:21,679 --> 01:39:23,199 Angela's always having to slow down for 1986 01:39:23,199 --> 01:39:26,400 me. I really appreciate it. So, uh a 1987 01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:30,320 little bit again only those three uh 1988 01:39:30,320 --> 01:39:32,159 provisions can be enforced by the DA, 1989 01:39:32,159 --> 01:39:33,679 the county, or the criminal district 1990 01:39:33,679 --> 01:39:35,840 attorney. That's because there's a most 1991 01:39:35,840 --> 01:39:38,320 DAS have a civil side and a criminal 1992 01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:40,159 side. And so there are potential civil 1993 01:39:40,159 --> 01:39:43,440 penalties and or criminal penalties for 1994 01:39:43,440 --> 01:39:48,400 for uh TOMA. Uh next one please. 1995 01:39:48,400 --> 01:39:51,840 That's what they are. Um 1996 01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:55,520 it's important to understand 1997 01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:58,239 some actions are and it makes a 1998 01:39:58,239 --> 01:40:00,719 difference on how you can enforce 1999 01:40:00,719 --> 01:40:02,560 certain things to know whether an action 2000 01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:06,719 is void or voidable. 2001 01:40:06,719 --> 01:40:10,320 Let me let me try to give an idea. So 2002 01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:14,320 the let's say you got a zoning case and 2003 01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:19,199 that comes up. Let's say that we have 2004 01:40:19,199 --> 01:40:21,440 proper notice 10 days to the PNZ. They 2005 01:40:21,440 --> 01:40:23,840 meet. They got a recommendation. We have 2006 01:40:23,840 --> 01:40:25,280 the council meeting. There's a public 2007 01:40:25,280 --> 01:40:28,239 hearing on the council meeting and uh 2008 01:40:28,239 --> 01:40:30,400 the uh PNZ makes a recommendation and 2009 01:40:30,400 --> 01:40:33,600 the council votes. Then we find out that 2010 01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:36,239 we had a mistake. Not Angela, but we had 2011 01:40:36,239 --> 01:40:39,119 a mistake. There was only 10 days notice 2012 01:40:39,119 --> 01:40:41,280 to the council, not 15 that was 2013 01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:43,679 required. Does that mean that zoning 2014 01:40:43,679 --> 01:40:47,440 ordinance is is void flat on its face? 2015 01:40:47,440 --> 01:40:50,239 Exact. No more. This is no more for you. 2016 01:40:50,239 --> 01:40:52,719 No more for you. Uh but that's exactly 2017 01:40:52,719 --> 01:40:55,520 right. And the reason why is because 2018 01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:58,080 it's passed. What council can then do 2019 01:40:58,080 --> 01:41:00,880 and go, okay, we got a nose 15 days. 2020 01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:03,679 They go back 15 days, they post it, they 2021 01:41:03,679 --> 01:41:05,600 have the the the meeting, they vote on 2022 01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:08,320 it again and passed it. You're fine. You 2023 01:41:08,320 --> 01:41:10,320 don't have to go back and redo the whole 2024 01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:12,880 thing. Now, give an example where it's 2025 01:41:12,880 --> 01:41:15,199 void. Let's say the easiest one is 2026 01:41:15,199 --> 01:41:16,560 annexation. We can't really do it 2027 01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:19,040 anymore, but think back in the days when 2028 01:41:19,040 --> 01:41:22,400 we could annex. One thing is y'all 2029 01:41:22,400 --> 01:41:24,320 understand with annexations it's a 2030 01:41:24,320 --> 01:41:26,480 specific detailed meets and bounds of 2031 01:41:26,480 --> 01:41:29,760 property going and a surveyor can go out 2032 01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:31,360 and go it starts here and the property 2033 01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:33,520 goes around and ends like that. Okay. 2034 01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:35,360 Well, if there's a problem with the 2035 01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:37,760 meets and bounds the detailed this being 2036 01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:39,520 dairy certain track to land out of this 2037 01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:41,920 thing going down to the iron rod at a 2038 01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:44,000 20° angle northwest from this road blah 2039 01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:46,239 blah blah. That's the meets and bounds. 2040 01:41:46,239 --> 01:41:49,360 If that goes like this but stops here, 2041 01:41:49,360 --> 01:41:52,480 we say that doesn't close and the city 2042 01:41:52,480 --> 01:41:54,560 council passes the ordinance and three 2043 01:41:54,560 --> 01:41:57,600 years later it's determined that it 2044 01:41:57,600 --> 01:42:01,520 didn't close. That action is void. You 2045 01:42:01,520 --> 01:42:03,600 cannot go back and fix it without 2046 01:42:03,600 --> 01:42:07,520 redoing everything. It is void from its 2047 01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:09,600 it's called void avenue initial void 2048 01:42:09,600 --> 01:42:11,760 from the beginning because the council 2049 01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:13,920 didn't have authority 2050 01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:17,760 to annex property without a closing that 2051 01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:20,320 is a void action again the voidable one 2052 01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:23,360 is the procedure was followed but it 2053 01:42:23,360 --> 01:42:25,440 wasn't followed I'm going to say 2054 01:42:25,440 --> 01:42:29,119 accurately or all correctly so you can 2055 01:42:29,119 --> 01:42:31,280 go back and fix that that's an that's an 2056 01:42:31,280 --> 01:42:33,360 example of avoid 2057 01:42:33,360 --> 01:42:36,159 versus avoidable action And those can 2058 01:42:36,159 --> 01:42:39,280 have very very serious 2059 01:42:39,280 --> 01:42:43,199 consequences and differences. Um, 2060 01:42:43,199 --> 01:42:45,600 next please. 2061 01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:47,280 Oh. Oh, go back one. I'm sorry, Angela. 2062 01:42:47,280 --> 01:42:51,440 Go back one more. So, mandamus for 2063 01:42:51,440 --> 01:42:54,560 example, you can go back. Mandamis the 2064 01:42:54,560 --> 01:42:58,239 the ask the court to Mandamis is a is a 2065 01:42:58,239 --> 01:43:01,199 request for a judge to order a 2066 01:43:01,199 --> 01:43:03,520 government official to do or not do 2067 01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:06,239 something. And you can only do it when 2068 01:43:06,239 --> 01:43:10,159 the rules are completely laid out. This 2069 01:43:10,159 --> 01:43:13,440 is why board voidable is important. If, 2070 01:43:13,440 --> 01:43:15,520 for example, you're going to go forward, 2071 01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:17,520 you could probably get a court, I would 2072 01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:19,520 think, at least an injunction against 2073 01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:21,760 the city from enacting and going forward 2074 01:43:21,760 --> 01:43:23,440 on the zoning ordinance because you only 2075 01:43:23,440 --> 01:43:26,800 had 10day notice for council 15. Okay. 2076 01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:29,520 So, they could mandamish you. That's 2077 01:43:29,520 --> 01:43:31,840 arguable, but for sure they can enjoin 2078 01:43:31,840 --> 01:43:34,159 you from effectively carrying out the 2079 01:43:34,159 --> 01:43:36,239 ordinance because you got to go back and 2080 01:43:36,239 --> 01:43:39,840 fix it. The court can't mandamus or 2081 01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:43,520 can't enjoin you from acting out the uh 2082 01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:45,920 annexation ordinance because it was void 2083 01:43:45,920 --> 01:43:48,159 from the beginning. So that is an 2084 01:43:48,159 --> 01:43:50,719 example of why void and voidable and how 2085 01:43:50,719 --> 01:43:52,960 they could play out in our world. Thank 2086 01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:56,159 you, Angela. Next one. Sorry about that. 2087 01:43:56,159 --> 01:44:00,159 Okay. unauthorized again. Um, oh, I took 2088 01:44:00,159 --> 01:44:01,840 it out. I apologize. I took it out in 2089 01:44:01,840 --> 01:44:05,119 another part, but not this one. Now, um, 2090 01:44:05,119 --> 01:44:08,239 the knowing part is now kind of removed. 2091 01:44:08,239 --> 01:44:11,440 If you do this, now we're getting into, 2092 01:44:11,440 --> 01:44:13,679 um, 2093 01:44:13,679 --> 01:44:16,000 I don't know where we are now. Angela's 2094 01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:21,510 got us at like 64 and a half. 2095 01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:24,239 » Uh, yeah, go down. 2096 01:44:24,239 --> 01:44:26,320 Yeah, go down one more actually. See if 2097 01:44:26,320 --> 01:44:30,229 it's what I'm thinking. 2098 01:44:30,239 --> 01:44:31,760 No, we already talked about that one. Go 2099 01:44:31,760 --> 01:44:33,440 down 68. That's about the certified 2100 01:44:33,440 --> 01:44:35,760 agenda and a class B misdemeanor. Ya. 2101 01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:42,310 Go. Will you go down 68, please? 2102 01:44:42,320 --> 01:44:44,480 Okay, here we go. Here we go. This is 2103 01:44:44,480 --> 01:44:45,920 what I want to get into and what Mr. 2104 01:44:45,920 --> 01:44:49,040 Good was talking about. Now, 2105 01:44:49,040 --> 01:44:52,320 now we're getting into and and everybody 2106 01:44:52,320 --> 01:44:55,199 read these because now it really gets a 2107 01:44:55,199 --> 01:44:57,760 bit dicey. It gets a bit it gets a bit 2108 01:44:57,760 --> 01:44:59,440 difficult. 2109 01:44:59,440 --> 01:45:01,440 Is there a violation? And I don't think 2110 01:45:01,440 --> 01:45:03,119 I had this this question. Oh, well, I'm 2111 01:45:03,119 --> 01:45:20,390 wait till everybody reads it real fast. 2112 01:45:20,400 --> 01:45:22,639 Okay, we go at 69. I can't remember if I 2113 01:45:22,639 --> 01:45:29,510 put the question on here or not. 2114 01:45:29,520 --> 01:45:31,760 No, go down one more. I mean, put it on 2115 01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:39,910 here. That's okay. 2116 01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:41,199 Look at that. We're getting close to the 2117 01:45:41,199 --> 01:45:45,030 end, people. 2118 01:45:45,040 --> 01:45:46,320 Okay, this is this is good enough. I 2119 01:45:46,320 --> 01:45:47,360 didn't think I put it on there, but 2120 01:45:47,360 --> 01:45:50,400 okay. So, let me ask you this. 2121 01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:54,480 If Mayor Pro Tim went to the mayor, 2122 01:45:54,480 --> 01:45:56,159 talked to him about, let's use the 2123 01:45:56,159 --> 01:45:59,280 controversial 8.2 last night, say he 2124 01:45:59,280 --> 01:46:01,440 went to the mayor and talked about 8.2. 2125 01:46:01,440 --> 01:46:03,440 Okay. Then he went to council member 2126 01:46:03,440 --> 01:46:06,480 London and he talked about 8.2. And then 2127 01:46:06,480 --> 01:46:08,880 he went to council member Cowry and 2128 01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:11,119 talked about 8.2 from last night. So, 2129 01:46:11,119 --> 01:46:12,960 there was deliberation for for sure. 2130 01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:15,199 They talked about public 2131 01:46:15,199 --> 01:46:16,560 They had a long detailed conversation 2132 01:46:16,560 --> 01:46:18,239 about an item under which they have 2133 01:46:18,239 --> 01:46:20,800 control. Okay. Well, I guess we learned 2134 01:46:20,800 --> 01:46:22,080 from last night they have control over. 2135 01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:25,440 That's story. Did any of those four 2136 01:46:25,440 --> 01:46:28,159 people violate the Open Means Act in the 2137 01:46:28,159 --> 01:46:33,830 scenario I just gave? 2138 01:46:33,840 --> 01:46:36,719 » Who? Okay. 2139 01:46:36,719 --> 01:46:40,070 >> He didn't even say his name. He's like 2140 01:46:40,070 --> 01:46:40,080 » He didn't even say his name. He's like 2141 01:46:40,080 --> 01:46:41,270 >> that dude right there in red. 2142 01:46:41,270 --> 01:46:41,280 » that dude right there in red. 2143 01:46:41,280 --> 01:46:43,750 >> Why are you scooting over? 2144 01:46:43,750 --> 01:46:43,760 » Why are you scooting over? 2145 01:46:43,760 --> 01:46:45,199 Well, this guy already put us in jail 2146 01:46:45,199 --> 01:46:50,709 once. 2147 01:46:50,719 --> 01:46:53,920 » Okay, now careful. In the scenario I 2148 01:46:53,920 --> 01:46:55,280 gave, 2149 01:46:55,280 --> 01:46:57,750 >> did anybody violate the Open Meetings 2150 01:46:57,750 --> 01:46:57,760 » did anybody violate the Open Meetings 2151 01:46:57,760 --> 01:47:01,199 Act? And if so, who? 2152 01:47:01,199 --> 01:47:04,950 Okay. 2153 01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:06,960 » Okay. So, you say nobody. 2154 01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:08,950 >> Okay. 2155 01:47:08,950 --> 01:47:08,960 » Okay. 2156 01:47:08,960 --> 01:47:10,790 >> I'm gonna say 2157 01:47:10,790 --> 01:47:10,800 » I'm gonna say 2158 01:47:10,800 --> 01:47:14,870 >> Okay. Everybody wants to blame you. 2159 01:47:14,870 --> 01:47:14,880 » Okay. Everybody wants to blame you. 2160 01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:18,880 Okay. Really? Why is that? 2161 01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:22,390 >> I wasn't I didn't go I went to one 2162 01:47:22,390 --> 01:47:22,400 » I wasn't I didn't go I went to one 2163 01:47:22,400 --> 01:47:24,960 particular person 2164 01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:27,840 the other person said and so this I'm 2165 01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:28,960 just giving you 2166 01:47:28,960 --> 01:47:33,030 >> the man's got it waking everybody up. 2167 01:47:33,030 --> 01:47:33,040 » the man's got it waking everybody up. 2168 01:47:33,040 --> 01:47:36,070 >> You are the man. That is exactly right. 2169 01:47:36,070 --> 01:47:36,080 » You are the man. That is exactly right. 2170 01:47:36,080 --> 01:47:39,280 But you see how this gets complicated. 2171 01:47:39,280 --> 01:47:41,040 This gets and I'm not kidding about it. 2172 01:47:41,040 --> 01:47:43,119 It gets very complicated. It's very 2173 01:47:43,119 --> 01:47:45,600 detailed. I mean, it it is not easy. So, 2174 01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:47,679 I want y'all to call me at any time. He 2175 01:47:47,679 --> 01:47:50,480 mayor Tim nailed it. If he and that was 2176 01:47:50,480 --> 01:47:52,800 my scenario, he's right. If he had gone 2177 01:47:52,800 --> 01:47:55,840 to the mayor, talked about 8.2, 2178 01:47:55,840 --> 01:47:57,520 then gone to council member Towry and 2179 01:47:57,520 --> 01:47:58,480 said, "Yeah, I was talking to the mayor 2180 01:47:58,480 --> 01:48:00,400 about, you know, 8.2 and council member 2181 01:48:00,400 --> 01:48:02,159 Cowry blah blah blah, and then he had 2182 01:48:02,159 --> 01:48:03,520 gone to council member London and said, 2183 01:48:03,520 --> 01:48:04,400 "Yeah, you know what? I talked to 2184 01:48:04,400 --> 01:48:05,600 council member Towry and the mayor and 2185 01:48:05,600 --> 01:48:07,119 this is what we concluded." And Mr. 2186 01:48:07,119 --> 01:48:09,199 London uh said, "Yeah, you know, okay, I 2187 01:48:09,199 --> 01:48:10,800 kind of agree with you." Then who's 2188 01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:14,320 committed uh a uh a violation of the 2189 01:48:14,320 --> 01:48:16,159 meanings act? 2190 01:48:16,159 --> 01:48:17,189 >> Close. No, 2191 01:48:17,189 --> 01:48:17,199 » Close. No, 2192 01:48:17,199 --> 01:48:18,229 >> not me. 2193 01:48:18,229 --> 01:48:18,239 » not me. 2194 01:48:18,239 --> 01:48:20,310 >> Not him and not him. That's not a 2195 01:48:20,310 --> 01:48:20,320 » Not him and not him. That's not a 2196 01:48:20,320 --> 01:48:22,639 quorum. 2197 01:48:22,639 --> 01:48:31,750 >> But you're on the right track. 2198 01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:34,000 » You got it. It's exactly that simple. 2199 01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:36,480 Just like Mayor Proin said, he can talk 2200 01:48:36,480 --> 01:48:39,920 to every single member of council. 2201 01:48:39,920 --> 01:48:42,239 every single one. As long as he's not 2202 01:48:42,239 --> 01:48:45,520 pulling it and pulling it all together, 2203 01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:47,119 there's not a violation. Now, I will 2204 01:48:47,119 --> 01:48:50,000 tell you, a lot of city attorneys won't 2205 01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:51,600 tell you those types of details because 2206 01:48:51,600 --> 01:48:53,600 they're like, "No, y'all can't talk." 2207 01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:56,239 Again, I don't I don't do it that way. I 2208 01:48:56,239 --> 01:48:59,360 treat y'all like grown-ups. Um I my my 2209 01:48:59,360 --> 01:49:00,960 phone is always available. You can call 2210 01:49:00,960 --> 01:49:02,480 me anytime, midnight, whatever. It 2211 01:49:02,480 --> 01:49:04,320 doesn't matter. Uh and I and I have 2212 01:49:04,320 --> 01:49:05,920 answered that for a lot of people and I 2213 01:49:05,920 --> 01:49:08,320 will because this is a very touchy, you 2214 01:49:08,320 --> 01:49:10,080 know, type subject and so I want 2215 01:49:10,080 --> 01:49:11,440 everybody to feel comfortable in what 2216 01:49:11,440 --> 01:49:12,480 they're doing. Hey, you know what? This 2217 01:49:12,480 --> 01:49:15,199 is what I did. Is it okay? But again, 2218 01:49:15,199 --> 01:49:16,800 that's why we started with what we 2219 01:49:16,800 --> 01:49:18,400 started 2220 01:49:18,400 --> 01:49:20,159 forum. 2221 01:49:20,159 --> 01:49:22,159 Is it something that you uh we have 2222 01:49:22,159 --> 01:49:24,960 control over? Uh yada yada yada. We went 2223 01:49:24,960 --> 01:49:26,400 right down the list. So that's what you 2224 01:49:26,400 --> 01:49:38,550 start thinking. Oh yes. 2225 01:49:38,560 --> 01:49:49,270 mayor. 2226 01:49:49,280 --> 01:49:50,880 » We're actually gonna get into this. He's 2227 01:49:50,880 --> 01:50:07,350 not even here. He's ahead of me. 2228 01:50:07,360 --> 01:50:15,270 I mean, what is your opinion on that? 2229 01:50:15,280 --> 01:50:17,360 » He's pretty well trained. Well, here's 2230 01:50:17,360 --> 01:50:20,000 the thing. It depend. Like most good 2231 01:50:20,000 --> 01:50:22,880 attorneys, I'm going to say it depends. 2232 01:50:22,880 --> 01:50:25,199 If Mr. Mr. Goodwin is posting on great 2233 01:50:25,199 --> 01:50:28,400 meeting last night. Okay. Mr. Goodwin's 2234 01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:29,840 like, "My daughter's the greatest." 2235 01:50:29,840 --> 01:50:32,159 Maybe I had son. My my kid is the 2236 01:50:32,159 --> 01:50:33,440 greatest kid in the world. Okay. You 2237 01:50:33,440 --> 01:50:35,040 don't like that? No. That's I don't care 2238 01:50:35,040 --> 01:50:36,320 if every single council member does 2239 01:50:36,320 --> 01:50:37,360 that. 2240 01:50:37,360 --> 01:50:39,910 >> If Mr. Goodwin said, "Man, I am excited 2241 01:50:39,910 --> 01:50:39,920 » If Mr. Goodwin said, "Man, I am excited 2242 01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:42,880 about voting at the next meeting on item 2243 01:50:42,880 --> 01:50:46,159 8.4 and saying blah blah blah." And you 2244 01:50:46,159 --> 01:50:48,000 like it. Yeah, I think you violate the 2245 01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:49,600 open meetings act. 2246 01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:53,109 >> So that's again quorum. Is it under your 2247 01:50:53,109 --> 01:50:53,119 » So that's again quorum. Is it under your 2248 01:50:53,119 --> 01:50:56,800 control? But step by step by step going 2249 01:50:56,800 --> 01:50:59,040 down going down the list. And again, 2250 01:50:59,040 --> 01:51:02,000 it's not wrong for you to talk to 2251 01:51:02,000 --> 01:51:04,960 everybody else and get their feeling 2252 01:51:04,960 --> 01:51:07,199 on things. So yeah. Now, what was the 2253 01:51:07,199 --> 01:51:08,560 first did I answer the first part of the 2254 01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:25,430 question? First, 2255 01:51:25,440 --> 01:51:26,719 » okay, now based on 2256 01:51:26,719 --> 01:51:28,470 >> the ones I see a lot is when people say 2257 01:51:28,470 --> 01:51:28,480 » the ones I see a lot is when people say 2258 01:51:28,480 --> 01:51:31,440 what's coming at 5 and 20 or I heard 2259 01:51:31,440 --> 01:51:33,840 this is coming. Does anybody know 2260 01:51:33,840 --> 01:51:35,119 anything? And then all of a sudden 2261 01:51:35,119 --> 01:51:36,880 people start chiming in. 2262 01:51:36,880 --> 01:51:38,950 >> It happens a lot. 2263 01:51:38,950 --> 01:51:38,960 » It happens a lot. 2264 01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:42,400 you see and I see on the HOA page, 2265 01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:45,199 they'll they'll type, hey, I saw this is 2266 01:51:45,199 --> 01:51:47,280 coming up. What does anybody know about 2267 01:51:47,280 --> 01:51:51,199 it? And then and typically you'll see 2268 01:51:51,199 --> 01:51:53,520 at Brian, do you know anything? And I 2269 01:51:53,520 --> 01:51:55,440 don't ever comment. I I don't even I 2270 01:51:55,440 --> 01:51:57,199 don't even I just stay away from those 2271 01:51:57,199 --> 01:51:58,639 conversations. 2272 01:51:58,639 --> 01:52:01,510 >> But now now that we've you go through do 2273 01:52:01,510 --> 01:52:01,520 » But now now that we've you go through do 2274 01:52:01,520 --> 01:52:02,639 can you do you think, hey, you know 2275 01:52:02,639 --> 01:52:04,639 what? I can apply that to the different 2276 01:52:04,639 --> 01:52:08,149 >> Yeah. 2277 01:52:08,159 --> 01:52:09,840 Because in in all serious, look, I know 2278 01:52:09,840 --> 01:52:11,440 a lot of this is dry and boring, so I do 2279 01:52:11,440 --> 01:52:13,199 try to keep y'all entertained, you know, 2280 01:52:13,199 --> 01:52:15,199 as well as teach y'all stuff, but in all 2281 01:52:15,199 --> 01:52:17,840 seriousness, I want to Thank you, Mr. 2282 01:52:17,840 --> 01:52:20,320 Powers. In all seriousness, one thing I 2283 01:52:20,320 --> 01:52:21,840 want to be able to do is if I'm not 2284 01:52:21,840 --> 01:52:24,639 around, you know, I who knows what 2285 01:52:24,639 --> 01:52:25,920 what's going to happen in the future. if 2286 01:52:25,920 --> 01:52:28,480 I'm not around. I want y'all to have the 2287 01:52:28,480 --> 01:52:31,199 tools and the knowledge that you need to 2288 01:52:31,199 --> 01:52:34,080 keep yourself out of trouble and and 2289 01:52:34,080 --> 01:52:36,239 more importantly be able to serve the 2290 01:52:36,239 --> 01:52:39,040 people that elect y'all to be here. 2291 01:52:39,040 --> 01:52:40,639 That's what I want to be able to do is 2292 01:52:40,639 --> 01:52:42,880 give y'all the tools that you need and 2293 01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:44,639 say, "Hey, look, you know what? I can I 2294 01:52:44,639 --> 01:52:46,159 can figure this out. I don't want y'all 2295 01:52:46,159 --> 01:52:47,920 to be on a life rapper on your own. So, 2296 01:52:47,920 --> 01:52:51,360 seriously, call me anytime, okay? But I 2297 01:52:51,360 --> 01:52:53,520 want y'all to also feel comfortable uh 2298 01:52:53,520 --> 01:52:55,040 knowing that, okay, look, I need to be 2299 01:52:55,040 --> 01:52:56,560 careful with what I say or, you know, 2300 01:52:56,560 --> 01:52:58,000 I'm not going to worry about if I I love 2301 01:52:58,000 --> 01:52:59,440 the picnic, I love the barbecue, you 2302 01:52:59,440 --> 01:53:01,360 know, it was great, and I want to tell 2303 01:53:01,360 --> 01:53:02,639 Council Member Goodwin, thanks for 2304 01:53:02,639 --> 01:53:04,000 letting me use your you know, your 2305 01:53:04,000 --> 01:53:05,599 grill, whatever. You know, I'm not going 2306 01:53:05,599 --> 01:53:06,960 to worry about it then because like, 2307 01:53:06,960 --> 01:53:09,119 hey, I got quorum. Is it under control? 2308 01:53:09,119 --> 01:53:10,800 yada yada yada. I got all that stuff in 2309 01:53:10,800 --> 01:53:14,159 place. Um, next one, please. I think 2310 01:53:14,159 --> 01:53:16,639 we're pretty close to being done now. 2311 01:53:16,639 --> 01:53:18,960 Oh, y'all know about that. I do 90day 2312 01:53:18,960 --> 01:53:21,920 72, please. 2313 01:53:21,920 --> 01:53:24,400 Yeah, if y'all ever want uh the the 2314 01:53:24,400 --> 01:53:25,920 that's just in case y'all want to talk 2315 01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:28,719 to the OG and stuff like that and that's 2316 01:53:28,719 --> 01:53:31,760 for new recordions. Uh and and and I 2317 01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:33,760 always encourage cities are always 2318 01:53:33,760 --> 01:53:35,920 asking me um the reason I have this on 2319 01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:37,440 there, cities are always asking how long 2320 01:53:37,440 --> 01:53:39,599 should we keep records. said, "Look, 2321 01:53:39,599 --> 01:53:41,280 what I think everybody should do, you 2322 01:53:41,280 --> 01:53:42,880 pass an ordinance and you adopt the 2323 01:53:42,880 --> 01:53:45,840 Texas State Library Archives, their 2324 01:53:45,840 --> 01:53:48,000 record retention policy. It's just it's 2325 01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:50,080 easy to follow. You can look at it. You 2326 01:53:50,080 --> 01:53:51,119 know what you can get rid of, when you 2327 01:53:51,119 --> 01:53:52,560 can get rid of, how you get rid of it, 2328 01:53:52,560 --> 01:53:54,880 stuff like that." So, that that pretty 2329 01:53:54,880 --> 01:53:57,119 much wraps it up unless you have 2330 01:53:57,119 --> 01:54:12,709 questions. 2331 01:54:12,719 --> 01:54:14,480 Oh yeah, I probably I didn't cover that. 2332 01:54:14,480 --> 01:54:20,149 So I I should I guess I was 2333 01:54:20,159 --> 01:54:22,800 » So here's the thing. Much like the 2334 01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:26,000 attorney client privilege is held not by 2335 01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:28,480 the attorney. It is not the attorney's 2336 01:54:28,480 --> 01:54:31,520 privilege. It is the client's privilege. 2337 01:54:31,520 --> 01:54:35,040 and only the client can wave it. So the 2338 01:54:35,040 --> 01:54:36,400 point of going back in executive 2339 01:54:36,400 --> 01:54:39,679 session, it is the council's or the PNG, 2340 01:54:39,679 --> 01:54:43,599 whoever does it. It is the council's 2341 01:54:43,599 --> 01:54:46,400 uh privilege. It's not mine. It's not 2342 01:54:46,400 --> 01:54:48,880 for brie's. We can't say anything 2343 01:54:48,880 --> 01:54:50,880 without y'all's permission about what 2344 01:54:50,880 --> 01:54:53,599 happened executive session. Y'all are 2345 01:54:53,599 --> 01:54:57,599 free. Yes. The one guiding rule that 2346 01:54:57,599 --> 01:54:59,280 that I give council when they're asking 2347 01:54:59,280 --> 01:55:01,679 about what you know, talk about 2348 01:55:01,679 --> 01:55:04,960 is my question I always ask is hey if 2349 01:55:04,960 --> 01:55:06,880 you're asking me about whether or not 2350 01:55:06,880 --> 01:55:09,040 you should talk to so and so about 2351 01:55:09,040 --> 01:55:11,440 whatever is my thing is what was your 2352 01:55:11,440 --> 01:55:13,679 point of going into executive session? 2353 01:55:13,679 --> 01:55:15,040 If you're going to go into executive 2354 01:55:15,040 --> 01:55:17,280 session and then just tell the whole 2355 01:55:17,280 --> 01:55:19,119 world then why didn't you why did you 2356 01:55:19,119 --> 01:55:20,560 waste our time going back in there and 2357 01:55:20,560 --> 01:55:22,800 doing that? Why don't we just have it 2358 01:55:22,800 --> 01:55:24,960 out here in the front? That's that's 2359 01:55:24,960 --> 01:55:27,199 where I'm coming from. 2360 01:55:27,199 --> 01:55:27,669 >> But 2361 01:55:27,669 --> 01:55:27,679 » But 2362 01:55:27,679 --> 01:55:29,990 >> is that is that is that answer the 2363 01:55:29,990 --> 01:55:30,000 » is that is that is that answer the 2364 01:55:30,000 --> 01:55:32,480 practice? you don't you don't want to 2365 01:55:32,480 --> 01:55:34,960 but if you did you're not in trouble 2366 01:55:34,960 --> 01:55:37,199 right a lot of people will try to say oh 2367 01:55:37,199 --> 01:55:38,239 you're in trouble for talking about 2368 01:55:38,239 --> 01:55:41,119 executive session 2369 01:55:41,119 --> 01:55:43,510 >> I would be Angela would be you know 2370 01:55:43,510 --> 01:55:43,520 » I would be Angela would be you know 2371 01:55:43,520 --> 01:55:46,800 somebody for reason 2372 01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:48,870 >> y'all it is y'all's privilege so y'all 2373 01:55:48,870 --> 01:55:48,880 » y'all it is y'all's privilege so y'all 2374 01:55:48,880 --> 01:56:19,189 would not be Somebody's attend 2375 01:56:19,199 --> 01:56:37,189 hour. 2376 01:56:37,199 --> 01:56:41,040 I know I've tried to since I've come on 2377 01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:42,960 like 2378 01:56:42,960 --> 01:56:45,030 >> I try to and anyone in here will tell 2379 01:56:45,030 --> 01:56:45,040 » I try to and anyone in here will tell 2380 01:56:45,040 --> 01:56:47,440 you I'm usually like hey 2381 01:56:47,440 --> 01:56:49,199 back 2382 01:56:49,199 --> 01:56:57,189 I'll tell you where it's 2383 01:56:57,199 --> 01:57:11,990 session number. 2384 01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:19,830 » Yeah. 2385 01:57:19,840 --> 01:57:21,119 Let me ask you, let me ask you a 2386 01:57:21,119 --> 01:57:22,320 question, Mark. Remember when I first 2387 01:57:22,320 --> 01:57:25,119 came on as mayor and I held executive 2388 01:57:25,119 --> 01:57:30,000 session from 5:45 to 6:15 2389 01:57:30,000 --> 01:57:32,800 and I had that council at the time did 2390 01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:35,040 not like that and that's why we have to 2391 01:57:35,040 --> 01:57:37,440 stop that. I actually like rock wall 2392 01:57:37,440 --> 01:57:39,040 does it. I can't remember what the other 2393 01:57:39,040 --> 01:57:41,679 city does. We do it we have executive 2394 01:57:41,679 --> 01:57:44,159 session before 6:30. So that way when we 2395 01:57:44,159 --> 01:57:47,679 hit 6:30, we're in front of people and 2396 01:57:47,679 --> 01:57:51,199 and I I have zero issue going back to 2397 01:57:51,199 --> 01:57:53,760 that whole council. I mean, I can't we 2398 01:57:53,760 --> 01:57:55,599 can't do that decision tonight, but I 2399 01:57:55,599 --> 01:57:57,280 can put it on the agenda to ask the 2400 01:57:57,280 --> 01:57:58,800 council if they want to do it. I'll be 2401 01:57:58,800 --> 01:58:01,280 happy to go back to the 5:45 to 6:15 2402 01:58:01,280 --> 01:58:03,599 executive session. And the reason I like 2403 01:58:03,599 --> 01:58:05,280 it is because it was a time. Hey, at 2404 01:58:05,280 --> 01:58:07,760 6:15 we're going back out there because 2405 01:58:07,760 --> 01:58:09,199 you want to be saying hi to people, 2406 01:58:09,199 --> 01:58:10,480 talking to the people, greeting the 2407 01:58:10,480 --> 01:58:12,000 people that are coming to this meeting 2408 01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:14,159 so they know they're important. At 6:30 2409 01:58:14,159 --> 01:58:23,669 starts, 2410 01:58:23,679 --> 01:58:25,440 » it's supposed to be. That's why I call 2411 01:58:25,440 --> 01:58:27,840 them exceptions. And I got to give the 2412 01:58:27,840 --> 01:58:30,639 mayor props. In 26 years of doing this, 2413 01:58:30,639 --> 01:58:32,400 he's probably one of the top mayors I've 2414 01:58:32,400 --> 01:58:34,480 seen about getting in their executive 2415 01:58:34,480 --> 01:58:36,639 session, getting the business done, and 2416 01:58:36,639 --> 01:58:38,480 getting out. I mean, he really he really 2417 01:58:38,480 --> 01:58:40,320 he really does a very good job of doing 2418 01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:49,350 that. 2419 01:58:49,360 --> 01:58:59,750 Right. 2420 01:58:59,760 --> 01:59:02,000 That's called a certified agenda. 2421 01:59:02,000 --> 01:59:04,310 >> A certified agenda. And we do that after 2422 01:59:04,310 --> 01:59:04,320 » A certified agenda. And we do that after 2423 01:59:04,320 --> 01:59:07,360 every executive session. Angela can give 2424 01:59:07,360 --> 01:59:10,560 you and P&Z would use the same one. And 2425 01:59:10,560 --> 01:59:12,880 it's just and I created it and I use it 2426 01:59:12,880 --> 01:59:14,880 for any city I represent. They change if 2427 01:59:14,880 --> 01:59:16,960 they want to, but I think Angela likes 2428 01:59:16,960 --> 01:59:18,639 it. And it's just the the template of 2429 01:59:18,639 --> 01:59:21,119 what we would use for a certified agenda 2430 01:59:21,119 --> 01:59:22,719 for our executive sessions. If you 2431 01:59:22,719 --> 01:59:32,229 you're welcome to look at it. Yeah. 2432 01:59:32,239 --> 01:59:33,920 » I think he's saying when we come back 2433 01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:38,400 outside, should we be saying what we 2434 01:59:38,400 --> 01:59:38,950 >> Oh, 2435 01:59:38,950 --> 01:59:38,960 » Oh, 2436 01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:40,709 >> give like a little brief. Give a little 2437 01:59:40,709 --> 01:59:40,719 » give like a little brief. Give a little 2438 01:59:40,719 --> 01:59:43,360 brief. 2439 01:59:43,360 --> 01:59:45,430 >> You're not required to. You don't have 2440 01:59:45,430 --> 01:59:45,440 » You're not required to. You don't have 2441 01:59:45,440 --> 01:59:47,199 to take any action after executive 2442 01:59:47,199 --> 01:59:48,719 session. The governing body doesn't. 2443 01:59:48,719 --> 01:59:50,960 They don't have to take any action. In 2444 01:59:50,960 --> 01:59:53,360 fact, what I always recommend that the 2445 01:59:53,360 --> 01:59:54,560 mayor do is when we come out of 2446 01:59:54,560 --> 01:59:56,159 executive session, go, "Hey, is there 2447 01:59:56,159 --> 01:59:58,000 any action as a result of executive 2448 01:59:58,000 --> 02:00:00,000 session?" If somebody says, "Yeah, I 2449 02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:01,199 want to make a motion to approve the 2450 02:00:01,199 --> 02:00:03,280 contract between, you know, city and 2451 02:00:03,280 --> 02:00:05,440 whatever or if there's nothing and 2452 02:00:05,440 --> 02:00:07,199 everybody is quiet, the mayor just moves 2453 02:00:07,199 --> 02:00:07,920 on." 2454 02:00:07,920 --> 02:00:10,709 >> Well, usually 2455 02:00:10,709 --> 02:00:10,719 » Well, usually 2456 02:00:10,719 --> 02:00:11,520 no. 2457 02:00:11,520 --> 02:00:13,910 >> I'll say no action was taken. I know 2458 02:00:13,910 --> 02:00:13,920 » I'll say no action was taken. I know 2459 02:00:13,920 --> 02:00:15,599 what it because I might say, you know, 2460 02:00:15,599 --> 02:00:17,040 we talked a little bit about this, no 2461 02:00:17,040 --> 02:00:18,639 actions taken 2462 02:00:18,639 --> 02:00:19,830 >> without 2463 02:00:19,830 --> 02:00:19,840 » without 2464 02:00:19,840 --> 02:00:21,430 >> without specifics. I'm I'm pretty 2465 02:00:21,430 --> 02:00:21,440 » without specifics. I'm I'm pretty 2466 02:00:21,440 --> 02:00:24,400 general, which is 2467 02:00:24,400 --> 02:00:27,510 >> which is why I like to to Mark's point, 2468 02:00:27,510 --> 02:00:27,520 » which is why I like to to Mark's point, 2469 02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:29,280 there's only certain reasons to go into 2470 02:00:29,280 --> 02:00:31,440 executive session and I I really try to 2471 02:00:31,440 --> 02:00:34,159 adhere to that because I I I am not a 2472 02:00:34,159 --> 02:00:35,520 fan of executive session, but I 2473 02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:38,080 understand a need for it, which I guess 2474 02:00:38,080 --> 02:00:40,159 now I will ask for reason to make sure 2475 02:00:40,159 --> 02:00:42,080 it's on the next council meeting that we 2476 02:00:42,080 --> 02:00:44,880 discuss. Do we want to go back to 2477 02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:48,560 pre meeting from 5:45 to 6:15 and then 2478 02:00:48,560 --> 02:00:50,000 we can have that opportunity for 2479 02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:52,400 executive session and then we are 2480 02:00:52,400 --> 02:00:54,080 because my whole thing is in front of 2481 02:00:54,080 --> 02:00:55,840 the people that's they that's what they 2482 02:00:55,840 --> 02:00:57,199 want us to be we're not the government 2483 02:00:57,199 --> 02:00:58,800 they are we just be out here talking to 2484 02:00:58,800 --> 02:01:06,070 them so 2485 02:01:06,080 --> 02:01:08,080 you know we'll put it on the next one 2486 02:01:08,080 --> 02:01:32,070 and we can discuss 2487 02:01:32,080 --> 02:01:35,119 Maybe we maybe we have to be better as 2488 02:01:35,119 --> 02:01:36,880 far as 2489 02:01:36,880 --> 02:01:40,000 you know our new city manager So when we 2490 02:01:40,000 --> 02:01:42,639 have the agendas that we looking at that 2491 02:01:42,639 --> 02:01:45,360 and making sure you know if there's a 2492 02:01:45,360 --> 02:01:47,520 reason or something to go on executive 2493 02:01:47,520 --> 02:01:49,679 session we're going into it and we we 2494 02:01:49,679 --> 02:01:51,199 have that laid out 2495 02:01:51,199 --> 02:01:52,790 >> and then that way it's just it's not 2496 02:01:52,790 --> 02:01:52,800 » and then that way it's just it's not 2497 02:01:52,800 --> 02:01:57,119 abuse because I mean you know I will I 2498 02:01:57,119 --> 02:01:58,400 will say there's not one executive 2499 02:01:58,400 --> 02:02:00,320 session that I've called so far that 2500 02:02:00,320 --> 02:02:03,280 I've regretted the only ones I have been 2501 02:02:03,280 --> 02:02:04,960 in somewhere this long and I'm just like 2502 02:02:04,960 --> 02:02:07,440 why we're talking in circles and you 2503 02:02:07,440 --> 02:02:08,800 know I am 2504 02:02:08,800 --> 02:02:10,480 Once we say it twice that we're going 2505 02:02:10,480 --> 02:02:13,679 back out, we done disgusting. Let's go. 2506 02:02:13,679 --> 02:02:16,159 And I'll try to tighten that up. I don't 2507 02:02:16,159 --> 02:02:30,390 like it back there. 2508 02:02:30,400 --> 02:02:32,639 We have pretty robust policy 2509 02:02:32,639 --> 02:02:46,790 discussions. 2510 02:02:46,800 --> 02:02:49,599 approaches. 2511 02:02:49,599 --> 02:02:53,320 But then come to