transportation utilities and
waterways review board Alderman
Bauman share of the board.
And when we go around the room
quickly and introduce ourselves
will start on the left to the
newly appointed member of the
board. As of yesterday, a win
for our please. Thank you so
much. Member, our Alderman 3rd
District. I am now in my.
For its been 14 a half months
in office. It's been a pleasure
to serve the residents of
district 3 very good at making
a please more of his chair,
John Rogers, deputy director
for the Milwaukee County
Department of Transportation.
Excellent.
Good morning. MISTER Chair
James Washington. Public Works
coronation manager and the
Department of Public Works.
Good Morning. MISTER Chair Gym
for advocate of public Transit.
Just like what, Jim Pictures,
because it's like to speak of
the mic to there's a microphone
in front of you. Good morning
Chair Jim Carpenter here, an
advocate of public transit just
like you.
Good morning, Kevin Susi,
citizen member John DECEMBER
resident of Milwaukee advocate
for transit. Well, German Scott
Speicher 13th District.
All right. Excellent. We have
one final in front of us today.
It's item 2, 6, 0, 2, 2, 1,
communication relating to the
creation of a publicly owned
electric utility by the city
of Milwaukee sponsored by
Alderman Broward and myself.
I think we'll start today by
having a brief opening comments
from some of the board members
who have indicated a desire to
make comments. So we'll start
with almond grower. And thank
you so much. MISTER Chair.
I really want to express my
deep gratitude to you and to
the staff here at City Hall
and this body for meeting today
to discuss this really, really
important topic because we are
we are faced with so much here
in the city of Milwaukee.
Not only are we faced with
rising prices across the board,
whether it's these landlords
gouging U.S. Or Kroger,
shutting grocery stores down
and then raising prices or
whether it's frankly our
current utility continuing to
raise prices again and again,
the working people of this city
are suffering right now.
And I am so glad that this
council in this body are taking
heed of that and exploring this
possibility today for us to
utilize chapter one, 97 of the
Wisconsin state statutes to
replace we energies with the
utility that's democratically
owned as a socialist alderman.
I believe that we should have
democracy in every single part
of our economy because it's one
thing to just elect people
wanting to go to vote for
PRESIDENT. One thing to be a
vote for your representative.
But it's another thing people
have said a c in the material
conditions that affect you
every single day. And when you
have a corporation like we
energies, that's The they MAY
suppose and present that their
a priority is to deliver
electricity. But as with any
company that you can treat on
Wall Street. The real hidden or
maybe not so hidden priority of
that entity is to deliver
profits for shareholders.
And I think it's about time.
Then this world we seriously
reconsider that economic
arrangement where we have an
economy where every single
human life is valued. Everybody
has an equal say no matter
what. Zip code you live in, no
matter what your skin color
is, no matter what your gender
is, that we have equality in
that we have a democracy.
And so this is one step that is
allowed under current state
law. We're not asking medicine
to do us any favors here,
although we do think they But
we're not asking medicine to
see favors. We are advocating
under current law and I I ran
on this and I'm I'm so proud
that we are hearing this right
now. To have this conversation
about whether we use this
statute that currently exist in
law, which is one step for us
to be able to come have an
economy that works for every
single person where everybody
is self actual is where
everyone can reach their full
potential were no one is
oppressed. And I know there's
probably some right-wing troll
out there. That's going to
comment on the saying that
because 11, 30 talk radio was
just talking about making fun
of people fighting oppression
this morning. But I actually
think it's a
good idea to fight And I think
we should be doing that in this
world. I actually did. You
know, call me call me a crazy
leftist Marxist here. But I
think that people should be
able to live their lives, how
they want and have a say in
every single aspect of their
lives. And so it was really
MARCH or the opportunity called
his meeting. I appreciate
everybody on this committee for
showing up today and I
especially on what and also I
want to thank our here are
going to testify and provide
testimony as well as the
members of the public who are
here as well. Look at this
crowd. Look at these people who
showed up on a workday. Some of
you I know, have taken off of
work because this issue is so
important to discuss. I'm here
today. So I just want to say
from the bottom of my heart
to every single person present
here, thank you for raising
your voice. It's one thing to
be an elected official on, but
it's another thing to really be
a member of the community and
advocate and stand up when it's
difficult. So all of you are
doing that today. Thank you all
so much. And thank you so much
for me to have some remarks,
MR. Chair, thank you all.
I'm tired of making opening
statement. Yes, I would like
to make an opening First of
all, I want to reiterate that I
took the public transit here,
the green line with my wife
and I believe in public
transit.
A government does a lot of good
things and providing services
public transit being one of
them. That's why I'm on this
committee. But I also believe
in public utilities. Let me
read a few using my background
is in economics instructor.
I'm a proud member of Milwaukee
dsa. Yeah.
Also I believe in a mixed
economy. Where is there a?
There is a place for markets
and competition and profit,
but also a place for government
provide services. The preferred
drug visions of utilities likes
or water and energy have proven
to be a good place for
government services. When I
first started reading about
publicly owned nonprofit
utilities, I learned this is
not all fire, all fringe idea.
It is a model supported all
over the country by people of
different political or
political persuasions. Let's
get the facts straight and
urging that works are what
economists call natural
monopolies allowing multiple
companies to provide redundant
energy networks in a given
geographical area makes no
economic sense. Energy networks
are best provided my
monopolies. The problem is we
energies is a profit driven
monopoly and sometimes profits
get in the way of providing the
best solution to a problem.
For example, sometimes is more
cost effective to improve
energy efficiency rather than
true. Then to provide more
energy. But a for-profit
utility does not have the
incentive to provide energy
efficiency because this reduces
the consumption of energy and
this reduces profits. Consider
data centers all over this
country. Communities are
enacting moratoriums on data
centers because of negative
effects of these data centers
on your told the Bills, the
environment and other negative
externalities, but profit
driven utilities have no
incentive to a pop up all these
data centers because they
dissenters lead to higher
energy consumption and higher
profits. Recently we energies
proposals are reviewed by the
Public Service Commission of
Wisconsin. And let's review
some of the things Thomas
contents said about this review
process. Some of the things
that we energy trying to pull
off because they're a
for-profit company. But before
I do that, I just want to bring
attention to the Bell. Iris
2, I noticed I received from we
energies with my last energy
bill saying that my energy bill
will increase by double digits
next year. 10.28% That is
wholly unacceptable. Yeah.
And it's being that driven by
a for-profit motive. I believe
that a publicly owned utility
would not be increasing my bill
by double digits next year.
Well, let me let me make take
a couple quotes from this
actual in our goal. All the
damage are null said no by Tom
Content.
The time is confidential is the
executive director of the
Citizens. Your Ability Board
of Wisconsin. This is some of
the things that we energies
was trying to get away from
that. The Public Service Act
commission rejected rejected we
energies proposals to require
consumers to pay. 25% about
1 billion dollars for natural
gas. Power plants to be built
for data centers. He cited that
customers protect customer
protections should be in place
for smaller data centers and
we energies. I then smaller
data centers. Then we energies
and for a boss. Data centers
rate increases. Cub will
scrutinize billions and excels
energy data centers plans.
Cubs will actively review the
price hike proposals we
energies and Wps put forward
seeking double-digit increases
for residential customers over
the next 2 years. The on data
centers, Wisconsin needs to
put affordability first energy
been rising at a clip. Well
above inflation, since Taters
centers showed up to soften the
blow cover eca men's these
changes to be implemented by
the government governor and
the legislature stop utilities
from profiting on dead power
plants. Customer cut customers
across the state are paying
1 billion dollars for piles
of rubble that have nothing to
do with keeping the lights on.
We start deland's and how the
stage energy future unfolds.
Utilities push profits centric
plans that rely solely on
building power plants. But
ignore energy efficiency and
other technologies that can
save customers under bills.
A better planning process.
Reacher tell these needs
including distribution can fix
this and that reforms to ensure
utility profits are linked to
affordability and how well
power companies tackle the
burden. A high energy cost of
plays on people struggling to
make energy and meat instead
of making a lowering the
profits. I say when they
shouldn't have profits, we do
not profit says.
Let's and the profits are bills
will be lower. Our energy czar
systems more sustainable.
And I will move forward in a
better fashion so thank you
very much for allowing me to
make those comments here to
thank you. Good people of
Milwaukee for coming off.
Sure. You're coming out because
you're concerned about your
energy bill, which is should
be. But you're also concerned
about the energy bills of
people who cannot afford to
have low income. And I find
a difficult time of 40 these
high energy bills are also
concerned about the
environment. So thank you for
being people of conscience who
care about the environment who
care about the next generation
who care about poor people.
And of course, it's a layered
normal human beings. You care
about yourself. So thank you
very much for being here.
Other board members wish to
make opening statements.
All right. Then we'll proceed
to our business today. We have
1, one item of housekeeping,
and that is to approve the
minutes of the previous
meeting, which was 2 years ago.
Back on 5/10/2023 is there a
motion to approve the previous
minutes? So moved their second
second all in favor, aye.
All right. Good that the
minutes right away. And this is
a communication file. We're
here to collect the information
and disseminate that
information to the public via
your own presence here and the
presence of the media, which is
great. This is also being live
streamed on the city channel.
So there's there's a permanent
video record of these
proceedings which people can
go to an consultant review.
We're not going to take any
action by this committee.
This board does not have the
ability to recommend a specific
action by the Common Council.
That is a step that will have
to wait for the future and
future action in terms of
committing a of creating
perhaps the task force to
review the potential of a
feasibility study to review the
details. The facts, the costs,
the details of the transaction
of this sort. This is an
enormously complicated process
as indicated by the legal memo
that we received from the pine
box for him. We will be hearing
from one of their attorneys
on the legal process. We'll
also be hearing from the
American Public Power
Association where we're we're
we're very honored to have or
should let striver here fresh
from Washington, D.C., from the
American Public Power
Association
this organization. We had the
honor, all the Broward I met
with her and her colleagues
back in MARCH when we were in
dc for the National League of
Cities Convention.
It was a very interesting
meeting. They presented some
some of of standing material to
us and that material is in the
file. So anybody can get access
to that material via the file.
So we will start with select
and she can explain the whole
concept of public power that
it's not at all. But for our
pointed out, some wild, crazy
notion that all of it as member
Carpenter mentioned that
there's a lot of cities that do
this, including some very large
cities. Social of the floor is
your wife. You tell us a little
bit about yourself, your
organization and then provide
your testimony.
All right. Thank you. Good
morning. Appreciate the
opportunity to be here today.
I'll provide a little bit of
perspective on public power
from a national perspective, a
little bit about what public
power is trends we're seeing as
it relates to municipal station
and then a little bit on the
process that we typically see.
And then, of course, happy to
answer any questions that you
MAY have. So the American
Public Power Association where
Trade Association and the
Washington, D.C., area where we
lobby on a federal level for
community owned electric
utilities. We provide education
resources, technical resources
to ensure that public power
utilities, have they have what
they need to remain successful
in the future.
There are 2000 public power
utilities in the U.S. A little
over 2000 public power,
utilities in the U.S. In all
states except Hawaii. They
serve 5 U.S. Territories
serving 55 million Americans
for context about 15% of
customers are served by public
power. Utilities. 13% are
served by rural electric
cooperatives and the remainder
about 66% are served by
investor owned utilities.
So Alderman Power Baumann said
earlier public her serve some
very large cities like Los
Angeles, Seattle, San Antonio,
Omaha, Orlando, Jacksonville,
all across the country. But the
vast majority of public power,
utilities are small, about 80%
serve communities of 10,000 or
fewer and 70% serve communities
of 5,000 or fewer. So public
power is very diverse in terms
of size region of the country
and also priorities. So that
really plays into the I'm the
overall the concept of public
power, its local
decision-making, local control,
addressing the issues that are
most important to the
community. So their 5 per
tenants of public power public
ownership, local
decision-making not-for-profit
operations cost base pricing
and customer first service.
So it really is all related to
the community and what issues
are most important to the
community. So public
power, utilities, I can adjust
their services to what the
specific needs of the community
are. And so that really plays
into the umbrella.
10 and I public power is that
local decision-making so
decisions on rates,
reliability, investments in
infrastructure, renewable
energy, any other services that
the community makes are made
here in the community.
The community has an
opportunity to weigh in on
decisions, sit in on public
meetings like this. The
utilities are overseen by
either. A city council are
elected or appointed utility
board. Sarah's. There's that
local oversight. So can
citizens can vote elected
officials in and out of office
if they're not addressing the
needs of the customer. So it
really is that customer first
community focus that has missed
most important. And so in
general. Public care, utilities
have lower rates, higher
reliability, more focused on
customer service and customer
issues and certainly willing to
dive into the details on the
cost differential and
reliability differential.
But we do have statistics and
some of it is in that document
that are that is as noted
there. And and our on our
website public power to work.
There's a lot of statistics on
the current differential in
terms of rates and reliability.
And here in Wisconsin, public
pair utilities have a slower
rates and lower bills. Then
other and other forms of of
utilities. And in terms of
municipal is a shunt trends.
There are a number of
communities that are looking at
public power currently. And
there have been for many years.
I've been a ppa 29 years and
it's been a constant drumbeat
of communities that are looking
at public power. But I would
say there's more interest now
than there's ever been in the
last several years. And I think
the other reasons vary on white
communities are looking at
public power. Sometimes
its rates, the rate increases
by the investor owned utilities
have gotten to the point where
it's just not tolerable in the
community. Sometimes its
reliability, particularly if a
storm comes through the
incumbent utility doesn't
respond. Well, then that may
prompt a community to explore
public power. And sometimes
it's long-term reliability
issues. Renewable energy has
been a really strong driver in
the last several years. A lot
of communities that are
interested in access to more
redact, reliable or renewable
energy. More
environmentally-friendly
options in the incumbent
utility has not been
responsive. That has pushed a
number of communities to
explore their options. And then
economic development. All of
these issues play into economic
development and the health of
the community. And then
finally, a lot of communities
when their franchise agreements
are expiring. That's a really
good opportunity to explore
options and just see what
what's feasible. From app's
perspective, we don't advocate
for communities forming public
power, utilities. We obviously
believe it's the best business
model, but it is a local
decision were here to provide
information to help you make an
informed decision and help the
community understand what
public power is and what the
benefits MAY be. But
ultimately, that's a decision
that needs to be made for that
by the community, for the
community to ensure that its
it really is the right decision
for you.
You know, while there is a lot
of interest in public power, I
will say that it is relatively
rare for new public power
utilities to form because it is
a lengthy process. It takes
time. It takes commitment.
It takes money and there will
typically be pushed back from
the investor owned utility.
So you have to be prepared for
that. If you're going to move
forward in that since 1973,
there have been public pair
utilities that have formed.
There have been 20 in the last
25 years. Most of them were
small and many of them were
greenfield New industrial
parks, new residential
communities that forms that
were not previously served by
that investor owned utility.
And so the large-scale examples
are relatively rare, but there
are some and there are
definitely some that are
exploring new, many that are
exploring now. So give you a
couple of quick examples just
to show really the diversity of
both public power and the
municipal station process
because every municipal as
ation campaign is different.
So the most recent utility to
form was Jefferson County pd
in Washington. They had about
18,000 customers. They stay
formed in 2013. Their issues
were more access to real right,
renewable energy, lower costs
and higher reliability in the
unit, which those are all kind
of the common common. Points
that communities are looking
at, but that this situation was
unique because they came to
it. They negotiated a price
with the investor owned
utilities. So that's unusual.
Usually they do go to
condemnation go to the courts.
But this one was negotiated
which can make the process.
It does make the process much
quicker and less expensive.
So if you're able to negotiate
with the incumbent utility,
that is the ideal situation is
relatively rare. But that was
the most recent one in. There
are other examples like that.
The second provide as Winter
Park, Florida formed in 2005
and they just celebrated their
20th anniversary last year they
formed because of reliability
concerns. They had very poor
reliability from the incumbent
utility. And when they took
over the system, they committed
to investing all the profits
that were generated from the
utility back into the utility
to harden the infrastructure
and the underground. It 80% of
their lines within the last
20 years. They have very high
reliability, as you can
imagine. Now their rates are
consistent or lower than that.
The incumbent utility. And they
have obviously very strong
customer service in 2024.
When Hurricane Milton hit
Winter Park, they only last
250 customers and they restore
them within 12 hours, which is
pretty remarkable when you
think of a hurricane coming
through and wiping out a system
in Florida. And then the last
provide is the Long Island
Power Authority they formed in
1998. They are. They have over
a million customers said
they're very unique. They
formed because the investor
owned utility Bill and a
nuclear plant that never
operated. But 8, there were
significant cost overruns.
And sky at dusk, the prices
were skyrocketing. So the state
of New York stepped in and I
and created the public power
utility. And they're very
unique because they have a
public private partnership.
So they the it is a public pair
utility owned by the community.
Operated and governed by the
utility board. But they
outsource the actual operations
to Pse g Long Island, which
is an investor owned utility.
So they still have the benefits
of public power and that local
control. But they have
outsourced the operations and
Winter Park did something
similar when they forms for the
first 10 years. They outsource
their operations and then
ultimately they decided to
bring in the the operations
and run it completely on their
own. And they hired a lot of
the people that were actually
working at that outsourced
company initially. So there are
the point of all this is there
are many different ways to look
at this. You know what? There's
not a cookie cutter answer for
every community. You really do
need to look at what's right
for you. And that's where that
feasibility study starts.
Looking at those options very
quickly, just to give you a
flavor of the communities that
are actually looking at public
power now, there are a lot of
them.
And I'll just mention a few.
But there are I contacted, I
would say every other week by a
new community or state that is
looking at what the options
MAY be. So St. Petersburg,
Florida, they just approved
funding for a feasibility study
to be conducted this year.
A Clearwater, Florida just
completed a feasibility study.
And so there they are now
looking at their options,
whether they decide to
negotiate with the incumbent
utility or create a public
power utility. And on that
note, I will just say that, you
know, ultimately the goal MAY
be to form a public power
utility, but as you go through
this process, the incumbent
utility is likely going to
offer concessions and they
they're going to want you to
drop this effort. So that's
where you gives you some
leverage, too. Maybe negotiate
with them. And if they are
willing to do whatever you need
to do, whether it's reduced
reduce rates, improve
reliability. It gives you an
opportunity to have that
discussion with that with them.
And that's where we have seen
some situations where community
will explore public power go
through the process and then
the incumbent utility comes
back and says we will provide
more renewable energy for you
and it meets the needs of the
community at that time. And
they MAY. Later decide to move
forward with public power, but
at least in the short term,
it gives them leverage to
negotiate with that incumbent
utility.
A couple other examples,
Slayton, Minnesota, small town,
but they are actually the
voters approved the acquisition
and is now in the courts.
They are determining what price
they are going to pay. So they
are likely going to form their
utility in the next probably
this year or next. San Diego,
California. They looked at
forming a public pair utility
a little over 5 years ago.
They did a feasibility study.
They decided to continue to
look at their their options.
They re-signed a shorter-term
ten-year franchise agreement so
they could they have the time
to look at their options.
5 years later, their rates are
still skyrocketing. There's a
lot of disaffected
dissatisfaction in the
community. So they just
compete, completed a second
feasibility study and more
detailed one to look at what it
would look like to take over
for 5 years when that franchise
agreement expires. A lot of
other examples. San Francisco,
California, Tucson, Arizona.
It's really all across the
country that we're seeing this
type of activity. And then I'll
wrap up just with on the
process. It's not a quick and
easy process. It takes time.
It takes commitment from the
community from leaders. You
know, it starts with this.
The education campaign.
Explaining what public power is
what you're trying to solve by
forming a public power utility
or at least the exploring
firming of public power
utility. The next step really
is that feasibility study to
determine does it really make
sense for this community?
That's where you put pen to
paper. You hire an outside firm
to look at this. They look at
what the impacts would be on
rates, reliability. What other
issues you want to address,
what the response MAY be from
the incumbent utility.
So that really is that tells
you, do you want to move
forward at all or you just or
are you going to choose to
negotiate with the incumbent
utility and then you'll go
through a number of options.
After that, the legal analysis
that evaluation, the financing
options and then the actual
acquisition, there will be a
referendum at some point for
the community to weigh in and
there could be a referendum.
See, you know, along the way to
decide if you're going to move
forward and then ultimately,
if you do decide or 2 decide to
move forward with the
acquisition, there would be a
reference locally and then off
and if you see will have to
approve approved the the actual
acquisition. So all wrap up
there and I'm happy to answer
questions, but just really
appreciate the opportunity to
be here. And it's really
exciting to hear about what you
what you're what you're
exploring here. Thank you for
that excellent presentation.
Absolutely. You. You've
obviously done this before.
So thank you so we'll go to
our attorneys now
focus on the micro level,
namely what a lot of Wisconsin
provides relative to municipal
as Asian electric utilities.
So please. Identify yourself
and give us a little bit.
Hi, good morning, everyone.
And thank you for your time
today. My name is Cat Grant.
I am an attorney from Pine
Spock, llp, the Milwaukee
chapter of the Democratic
Socialists of America asked us
to research several key issues
of importance to the power to
the people campaign. Today, I
will be sharing our findings
regarding the legal process
that the city of Milwaukee
would need to follow in order
to acquire the we energies
facilities, the process through
which such facilities would
be evaluated and the
feasibility of protecting
workers organizing rights by
contracting with a third-party
managing entity given the size
and scale of this proposal, it
is incredibly important to note
that there are several topics
outside of the scope of what I
will be speaking on today.
That would require further
research and more details on
the topics that will be
discussing today as well as
citations are available in the
memo that has been submitted
for public record. So the city
can acquire facilities like
those of we energies through
one of 2 processes. You can go
through condemnation or
negotiated purchase for the
condemnation option. The city
would first need to hold a
public referendum to even
approved the acquisition of the
parts of the utilities property
that are currently already used
for the benefit of the public,
including utility
infrastructure. This means that
the city would not legally be
able to acquire any of the
facilities or equipment that
are not actively currently used
for the benefit of the citizens
of the city of Milwaukee.
Following that referendum.
The next steps depend on the
date that the utility was
issued. It's indeterminate
permit if that permit was
issued before JULY. 11th 19, 0,
7, the city would then need to
initiate a lawsuit in circuit
court and prove that the taking
as necessary and necessary here
does not mean it immediately
has to happen or the world is
going to explode and there will
be no more electricity
necessary here just means more
beneficial than not
essentially. However, if
indeterminate permit was issued
after JULY, 11th 19, 0, 7, the
utility is legally considered
to have already consented to
the process. That follows after
the referendum and the city
would not need to initiate a
lawsuit. It's currently unclear
in our research what year the
permit that we energies
operates under was issued.
But the company that we
energies traces its roots to
obtained its independence or
it's indeterminate permit in
1911, if this were later permit
is the one currently used by we
energies than the court action
is not necessary. Regardless
of any court action, the city
would then be required to give
speedy notice to the Public
Service commission. There is no
legally specified timeline as
to what counts a speedy.
At this point. The Public
Service Commission would hold a
hearing to determine the amount
of just compensation that the
city must pay the utility and
any other terms and conditions
of the purchase parties must
receive 30 days. Notice of that
hearing.
At some point following that
hearing, the psc would issue
its order and certification
and the title would vest in
the municipality. I will
provide more specific
information on how compensation
is determined a little bit
further in this presentation.
Any party MAY appeal the pse
order through the circuit court
after it has come down and
following that decision, if for
some reason the city or its
citizens decide actually, we
don't want to do this. There
is a 90 day period in which the
city through resolution or the
citizens through referendum
could discontinue a
condemnation. Alternatively, to
that process, the city could
acquire we energies property
through a negotiated purchase
Milwaukee is in a unique
position legally here as
Wisconsin's only certified
first class city, Milwaukee can
enter into a contract with we
energies that provides for
amongst many other options.
The purchase of all or any part
of the utilities property by
the city in order for any kind
of contract of that nature to
be binding, it would need to be
agreed to by the Common
Council, the utility, the psc
and the majority of the
electorate through a
referendum.
If the city didn't want to use
this option, that uniquely has
there is a statutory mechanism
that any city in Wisconsin I
can use for the voluntary sale
by the utility to any
municipality, the city and
utility would need to come to a
mutual agreement on price and
all other terms and conditions
of the sale. The city has the
option to pay for the property
from its general fund or the
proceeds of municipal
obligations, including revenue
Bonds. The Common Council would
then need to hold a regular
meeting preceded by one week
of official newspaper. Notice
and adopt a resolution
specifying the payment method
and submitting approval for the
purchase, too public referendum
if the referendum succeeded,
the city would then proceed to
purchase the utility property.
Now I want to know a key
distinction there with the
condemnation process. The
referendum comes first with the
negotiates its sale option.
The referendum comes after all
of the other aspects have been
determined.
Most likely the city of
Milwaukee would be required to
install a seven-person board
of directors by mayoral
appointment and Common Council
approval, which could then
appoint its own managers.
Moving on from that particular
set of procedures that would
MR. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm
so sorry. I had a I think I
want to clarify something for
the for the eyes. And can you
can tell me if I'm if I'm
incorrect in this, but as we
were talking about franchises,
an indeterminate permits, they
would just be clear that in
some states not in Wisconsin,
but in some states, the
municipality actually has a
chance to enter into a contract
with the incumbent utility
particular on a regular basis.
And so looking Illinois,
Chicago with Con Ed, they
haven't caught. The city has a
contract with them. We don't
have that option here because
of what cat has sided with
Chapter one 97. We We don't
have any sort of regular
negotiation period with them on
like Colorado, where Illinois
we energies has this
indeterminate permit, which
means that they have a right by
law to operate the utility in
this in this area indefinitely,
unless we as a city take action
to usurp them. Is that correct?
Cat? And yes, that is correct.
Okay. Thank you. So I just want
to clear about that. That's
what we're dealing with.
A determined permits. The
franchises like in California.
We're not something that's
within our legal wheel house
unless we get the law changed.
But that's just want to make
sure that that was that that
was clear. And I just want to
also confirmed can't because
some people you want a
precondition, this effort on
knowing exactly every single
penny that will have to pay
for we energies,
infrastructure. I think you
stated in your that the psc and
I think was also referring to
the pier are in memo. But the
psc doesn't do hearings on
hypotheticals. That is
incorrect. They're not
interested in just doing the
co. Let's flip that. Whoever
whatever cities fancying this.
Let's just hold it. Just a
six-month hearing process for
on vacation. They don't do
that. We have to vote yes to
move forward before. We'll
determine valuation. Yes, that
is the statute currently.
Okay. Yeah. That's the country
were under okay thing, right?
And that's simply, you know,
for the sake of the psc in the
administrative burden that that
would place on it. Obviously
they do not have the time and
resources to do the evaluation
process for things that might
not happen.
So yeah, when we can move on to
the issue of valuation,
actually. So the best like I
said, the pse can only
determine the fair price for
the property after a referendum
already taken place. So first,
the psc would need to consider
previous sales of a similar
nature. Look at the price in
terms of any good faith sailed
comparable property. So they
factor in things like situation
usability improvements that
have been made to the
facilities and other
characteristics looking at
those previous sales that would
create basically a reasonable
belief that it is, in fact,
a comparable to the sale that
we would be discussing in this
case. The psc would then also
evaluate any appraisals offered
by both parties. So that would
be and appraisal by the city as
well as an appraisal from we
energies in this case and it
would take those into account
in making its final decision.
Generally, though, the psc
historically seems to take an
approach to valuation. That
takes the average of 2 sons and
they have kind of confusing
the Inc. So you have the
trended historical cost
depreciated and the
reproduction cost
new depreciated so that trended
historical cost appreciated.
That takes the amount that the
facilities and equipment and
the land that is currently
there how much that cost to
build in purchase at the
historical moment that those
facilities were built. The
equipment was bought. The land
was bought. And then that cost
is adjusted for inflation.
Using a guy like the Handy
Whitman Index of public utility
construction costs. Now they
don't have to use that specific
guide, but that is a guy that
they have used in the past.
That number is then reduced to
reflect the normal expected
deterioration of equipment over
an average service like in
their metrics that they use for
that as well. The second number
reproduction cost new
depreciated then takes what it
would currently cost right now
today to build an exact replica
of the existing facilities as
well as the land. If you used
the same materials and the same
historical methods to produce
that same type of facility so
they would not be using the
most updated
most efficient way of
construction. Anything like
that, that they would look at
those old methods, how they
were built and apply that to
things like labor charges of
material charges as they
currently exist at this moment
instead of a statistical model.
I they then again reduce that
number. So they take that based
number. And then they reduce it
by the age of the equipment and
other facilities based again on
that same statistical model of
average service life. These
2 values are then averaged to
determine what the reasonable
purchase price would be.
If any of the equipment or
facilities have significant
damage beyond what those
statistical models of
depreciation would reflect the
psc can then further reduce
that cost based on that level
of damage. I'm now there are
some complications here because
the city would not be acquiring
we energies and its entirety.
We energy serves a large
portion of southeastern
Wisconsin. So this would only
be a person taking there does
seem historically from the psc
to be a distinction that is
made between property. That is
part of a utility system in
its entirety as opposed to
property that is used to serve
each of the separate public
utilities operated by the
company. Any property that is
used to serve another
community. In addition to
Milwaukee under at least one
other indeterminate permit
would likely be considered
system property and would not
be eligible for acquisition
and excluded from the potential
valuation. This could be
addressed through the
establishment of the municipal
power district involving other
municipalities. But for the
sake of time, I will not go
into the details of that
process. You can find further
details of that in the memo.
Up. So in terms of actually
paying for the acquisition,
the city would most likely want
to use revenue bonds to finance
it as opposed to general
obligation, bonds, which are
backed by the general tax
revenues such as property
income or sales tax revenue.
Bonds are backed by the funds
from the electric rates.
And that is what finances those
bonds. That means that the
revenue collected from the
utility itself would pay for
the acquisition. I this is
permissible, but the psc does
set the amount that utility
can collect from those rates.
That's based on the value of
the utilities, capital assets
at original cost minus
depreciation. Utilities are
typically only able to recover
rate of return about 6 to 7%.
And the depreciation on their
assets.
Once the city has acquired a
facility.
We then run into the problem
of it were to run into the
facility directly. The utility
employees would likely have
their organizing rights
curtailed under act. 10.
There are however options
available to avoid that
outcome.
Once the city has acquired a
utility, it could in theory.
Public utility plant to another
entity like a co-operative to
run it. But those cooperatives
are particularly well suited
for an urban municipality.
They're more common in rural
municipalities and it's
unlikely that the city would be
able to get the necessary
approval from the psc for that
type of model. Again, for the
sake of time, I'll direct
everyone to the written memo
for more information on that
particular topic, a simpler and
much more likely way to avoid
the pitfalls of act. 10 might
be for the city to contract
with a third-party managing
entity to manage operations
and assets. The existing we
energies workforce would then
become employees of that 3rd
party, managing entity and
likely not fall under the
limitations of act. 10, this
strategy would create a
stronger possibility for the
protection of pensions and
other benefits that.
The currently unionized.
We energies workforce has
access to now. There are a lot
of complications regarding that
and the obligations of a 3rd
party managing entity in that
regard not addressed by this
memo. But I will say there is
nothing that prevents a 3rd
party entity from honoring the
collective bargaining agreement
currently held by the We
Energies employees and the
years of service of the current
unionized workforce. The city
enters into contracts on a
regular basis. Of course, for
a wide range of services,
including but not limited to
construction maintenance
storage, towing health
services. It services so many
other things. This is a well
established process by the
city. There would need to be
a competitive bidding process
that's run through the
purchasing division for the
city of Milwaukee. This project
would require that its be
advertised, sealed and opened
at a public bid opening with
the final bit being awarded by
the city's purchasing director.
Like any option. This one also
has complications to consider.
It's unknown at this point what
businesses or organizations
currently exist that have the
expertise and resources to take
on a project of this scale.
If a group or establish
specifically for this purpose,
it would need to have the
capacity to take on operations
before ever being granted the
contract. It is also unknown
at this point how much such
a contract would cost the city
compared to direct management
has the final cost would be
determined by the bidding
process. As I stated my
research today only touches on
the key issues that I've
addressed above and does not
address other factors that we
need to be considered nor does
it address other alternatives
outside of acquiring the we
energies process. Given the
scale of this project again,
further research will be
required. Thank you all for
your time today. I'm happy to
answer any questions. Thank you
for that Questions at the end
of everybody public. I can.
I can wait than all right, Jim,
we'll go to MISTER Rosenberg,
please. Thank you. Thanks for
the opportunity to do today.
My name is Sam Rosenberg and I
am here representing the
more than 1700 members, 500 of
them in Milwaukee at the
International Brotherhood of
Electrical workers. Local 21
50, I'm also an operations
dispatcher at we energies.
I want to talk about
reliability members I represent
reliability is not a slogan.
It is the work we do every day
and every night.
It is the crews going out in
the cold and the storms and
emergencies to keep lights on.
Keep guests service safe and
get Milwaukee back up when
something goes wrong.
We saw this work in action
earlier this month when strong
storms and tornadoes hit
southeast Wisconsin. Our
members are star power. More
than 80,000 customers. Some
cases crews had to rebuild a
major parts of the local
electrical system that were
badly damaged. There's a kind
of work with liability. Depends
on.
Ibew, local, 2050 strongly
opposes this municipal as a son
proposal because it would put
that reliability at risk.
Milwaukee would not just be
taking or polls wires and
equipment the city would have
to recreate any tire utility
operation from scratch. When
storms hit, we energies can
move crews, trucks, poles,
transformers, wire materials,
and expertise across Wisconsin
to where they're needed.
Most. Milwaukee is not backed
up by one isolated shop is
backed up by a regional system
with people and experience
already in place. That is what
reliability looks like in real
life. It means crews can be
shifted across regions and
these materials can be found to
move quickly. And these gas
and electric emergencies can be
coordinated at the same time.
And these dispatchers and
control room operators are
working with field crews who
know the system, the
neighborhoods, the equipment
and safety risks.
City-run utility would have to
build all that while keeping
the lights on every day and
would have to hire and train
the workforce set up
dispatching. By maintain
equipment in his inventory,
build the supply chain, prepare
for storms and create regional
backup support. There is not
quick and it is not cheap.
And it's not something Waukesha
Gamble on. And this is not
about we energies. This is an
issue that affects every
customer who expects heat on a
cold night. Our during a storm
in a fast response. And gas
emergency happens.
If the city breaks off
Milwaukee from we energies
statewide system, it also
breaks away from the people
tools, materials and backup
support to help make service
reliable.
Our union workforce is proud of
what we do. These are highly
skilled union jobs bill.
10 years of training,
experience and safety.
Lineworkers gas crews,
dispatchers control room
operators, planners,
supervisors, mechanics,
warehouse workers and support
staff all work together as one
system.
If workers are forced into
uncertainty over pensions,
healthcare, seniority,
contracts and union
protections. Many MAY not move
to a city-run utility. They
have options. And if they
leave, Milwaukee loses more
than employees at loses.
The people. Who know the system
and know how to restore service
safely. At the end of the day
or liability is not created by
changing the name of the
utility. It's created by train
workers backed by statewide
operation with crews. It's
equipment, materials and
experience to respond when
people need help. That is what
Milwaukee already has. And that
is what this proposal puts at
risk. Thank you. Thank you for
the number. Okay. Next up is.
We'll go away and is up.
Brian rigor from will not
waste.
Rigors. I just couldn't see
Ation of Rodgers on Rodgers.
And that's our standard it.
And that's what our bring I
am grateful to be here this
morning.
It's a privilege being able
to serve as a vessel.
To bring the tree and
creativity and wisdom.
The moral imagination that
exudes from neighborhoods like
Lindsay Heights on the North
side.
And to carry the into the halls
of power where decisions are
made that quite literally in
quite immediately, in fact, the
lives of all of us that call
Milwaukee home.
And so the effects of those
decisions fall. Symmetrically.
On the city's hyper segregated
society.
Some decisions, shorten lives
in some places. Well,
lengthening them and others.
Improving lives here on this
block, harming that lockdown
there. So it is the director of
the Web. The Wisconsin Eagle,
just his base buildings.
It's a statewide movement.
Infrastructure.
Operation.
That is seeking to expand
community self-determination by
strengthening the capacity of
Wisconsin residents to shape
the systems. The institutions,
the decisions that affect their
lives. How's that one away?
Conservation Corps? We're
focused on energy,
affordability, House and
justice, environmental health,
Democratic participation we can
use of.
We're going to bring the
Michael close for comfort of
their wheelchair.
So I'm I'm from here point
raise my grandmother and her
children in Lindsay Heights.
See, my father took care of her
in that same house. I'm told 15
was rights. Chief while father
who passed away earlier this
month. At the age of 76 was
living in the same room, but he
cared for her mother and she
died in. I'm at home is housed.
A lot. A lot of history.
A lot of promise. A lot of pain
and disappointment. And that
home belongs to 110 square
block neighborhood of Lindsay
Heights that has been under
assault. Quietly. Pernicious
For decades under watch by both
white and black
administrations, Democratic
and Republican leadership in
times of surplus and periods
of deficit. So I know what
killed my father.
In the disgraced ascension
money pit that doubles as a
hospital. The bodily ailments
that plague his life.
Hyper chronic, chronic
hypertension ever. Predator
threats of diabetes.
It's a bit.
The threat of diabetes and
heart attack the asthma, the
actual stroke that he suffered
that rendered him blind for the
final 2 years of his life
underneath this physiological
physical airlines, a deeper
disease.
In the body politic of a
society that would allow such a
man to lead such a life in such
a home inside such a
neighborhood of such a city.
Is this? So I'm here today to
discuss. I mean, this was a
shunt up to one of the 7
Wisconsin statutes they do
bring in to talk about data.
They bring me and I presume for
my rhetorical flourishing and
better one. Yeah, yeah.
But I want to begin suggesting
that the most important
question for us is not within
walking should only utility.
The more powerful query,
perhaps as for the people of
Milwaukee, should have greater
power over the systems that
shape the daily lives, its
conversations, ultimately not
about electric poles and wires.
Forgive me, sir.
It's not about substations and
transformers, utility planning
and accounting. If you're
paying even marginally close
attention, any of us to the
public these days, it is so
clearly about democracy.
It is so self evidently about
public health.
Most obviously about economic
justice and climate adaptation.
So is therefore not in the
least bit hyperbolic to suggest
that the central political
question a steak you today is
who gets to decide what kind
of future we build and then
have to call and have it
together before discussing
minutes. A position itself.
I think some of those with
various an exciting fun forms,
democracy can assume, indeed
has assumed since the earliest
record experiment in ancient
Greece over 2500 years ago.
If if you will permit me.
Because there was this machine.
In Athens be a phenomenal
city-state. We're culture
science.
In Gora in Gora stands the
Terry and Machine. This was a
machine that looks pretty
unremarkable. But in the
context of ancient Greece was a
central technology radical
experiment in democracy.
This machine, a big rock with
slabs and it slips in it.
Was the random selection
lottery. That put people into
office, administrative bodies
on governing agencies. Of
juries.
So what does that tell us?
Well, it says some things that
Plato and Aristotle other
political philosophers of the
day. We're making very clear.
Clear argument in favor of if
you want a citizen the that can
manage and govern its own
affairs and to do so long, some
values that we can all agree
are common and ethical. Then
everybody has to be ready at
any point.
Elections would tend to and we
might say they have indeed 10
towards hierarchy of power,
concentration by those who have
economic resources, those who
have education, those who are
well connected. In other words,
any one of us up here? To some
extent.
It's very different in
democracy. We have today.
I think we agree.
Now lets ask why this
conversation is emerging now.
Well, he did not suddenly wake
up one morning and decide to
be he's a chapter one. 97.
This conversation has been
occurring. For a long time.
Occurring within a much larger
social political economic and
ecological contexts. Everyone
is touched on them at some
point in the remarks this
morning.
Families struggling with the
rising cost of living in
virtually every front. We are
living through in Arab,
expansive, expensive wars
abroad and a tightening
crushing austerity at home.
Homelessness in the city's
rises along with the deaths of
despair in the countryside.
Now 2026, there's more wealth
being created than at any time
in history.
The bloated stock markets do
not lie. It's been a steady
diet of resource extraction,
labor exploitation, profit
generation of private
accumulation accomplished
increasingly by means of the
magic of I don't even know what
the f is. Financial is a shun.
Communities are confronting
worsen. Climate impacts,
extreme weather flooding.
Dangerous heat indeed. All of
earth's life support systems.
If we believe and fluidity in
the methodology of science.
Are being stretched either to
their breaking point or human
activity has already caused it
to surpass its planetary
boundaries.
So from data centers to
detention centers, foreign
wars, fbi files across the
nation, residents increasingly
feel that many of the most
consequential decisions
affecting their lives are being
made far away from the people
who must live with the
consequence and to know they're
making bank doing it.
So whether discussing housing,
healthcare, detention centers,
data centers, energy
infrastructure, environmental
permitting or economic
development, communities are
increasingly asking the same
fundamental questions.
Across very different right
there. A mega Jason communities
that are asking very pointed
questions to their own mayor
and Port Washington. I
shouldn't say that about Port
Washington anyway, who governs?
Who benefits? Who bears the
cost and who gets a meaningful
voice in the decisions that
shape the future. So what now?
The conversation that means
was a Shannan is simply one
expression of that broader
Democratic question. Again,
2 which and the ancient
philosophers that we love to
lionized had very specific
concrete ideas and warnings
about. The so-called democracy
we enjoy. So from the
perspective of the communities
that web organizers with the
current energy systems
experienced. Few affordability.
MR. Carpenter brought his
literal bill to the hearing.
We don't encounter the utility
system. Some abstract policy
debate we encountered instead
through monthly bills.
Difficult choices between.
Any of the things that are way
too expensive that we need to
live.
Longer than normal
disconnections due to aging
infrastructure. Poor
maintenance. The cascade of
shut offs that come every
spring to our own manufactured
poverty. To encounter it
intimately inadequately
insulated, housing, Asian
furnaces, unsafe indoor
temperatures in the constant
stress that comes from living.
One unexpected expense away
from crisis. To raise your
hand. If you are living one
x, unexpected expense away from
crisis in for Kerri Amaka look
back. But I imagine everybody's
hands are up behind thing.
I do not even have to turn
around in this so-called
democracy. We enjoy.
It's the overwhelming majority
of us. Whatever ms prevail
about the so-called middle
class.
We got the telling the story.
But, you know, we got the data
we've been in.
I had this point. I don't know.
It doesn't dockets with the
psc from a very large customer
tariffs. We work very closely
with pines by love me. Some
Chris and Eduardo props to
pines Buck. Rate cases.
Infrastructure dockets,
affordability, investigation
dockets creating low-income
affordability program dockets.
You name it. The Public Service
Commission. Yeah, they're low
on resources. Or something like
that.
The data shows the energy burns
are significantly higher in
many black brown in low-income
neighborhoods and regional
averages, especially when
compared to white
neighborhoods.
Some communities now
householder spending with over
6% of their income on energy
costs. Some even upwards to
15, 20.
We shouldn't reduce the
question of public ownership
to matter of technicality,
accounting or asset valuation,
though, all those are important
questions.
The spreadsheets the
engineering studies legal
procedures lies a much bolder
and more fundamental question.
Who should govern the
conditions of life? And that
means interest.
We know one way that it can
work because we are
experiencing it. We're
literally having a conversation
about it because we're
experiencing it.
If it's in the interest of
profit, private accumulation.
Perhaps we might do something
else to guarantee the quality
provision of permanently
affordable. We're live on
fossil free energy. And they're
doing it everywhere. Thank you
for. Your example.
So it turns out we have learned
the hard way these objectives
are frequently intention.
You cannot identify maximum
shareholder returns or sorry,
enjoy indefinitely. Maximize
shareholder returns while
simultaneously minimizing costs
to households.
You can prioritize. Quarterly
earnings will fully
prioritizing affordability.
You cannot build a system
around the extraction of value
and expected to consistently
produce equity, resilience and
Democratic accountability.
If in fact, we care about those
things.
For investor owned utilities.
The answer is constantly
constrained by the structure
matter how dedicated their
employees. How sincere their
intentions. They remain
obligated to generate returns
for investors. That
obligation shapes everything,
priorities, incentives,
decisions.
So the question before
Milwaukee is with an essential
service upon which every
household business school
hospital neighborhood depends
on. Should be governed
primarily by those incentives
for the weather. Should we
should govern them by a
different set of values
altogether.
There's a lot more.
I would say to some of my
experience with the Public
Service Commission.
The regulator of we energies.
Isn't Aaron Sorkin series
called the Newsroom. Everybody
should watch it. Jane Fonda,
isn't it? She's great.
Aaron Sorkin doesn't do great
with the development. The
complexity of female
characters, but that's his
problem. It's not ours. But
Jane Fonda, it runs a media
conglomerate, right? And Jeff
Daniels is this like anchor
who goes off on a student, a
college student that is
thinking about why is America
the greatest country in or out?
But it's not.
She tells a joke. She says it's
about GOD and golf. I'm not
going to tell the joke because
he's tells a much better.
And Aaron Sorkin wrote it.
The punchline is worth it
because
Moses is doing side. GOD is
doing all these things. And one
point Moses says to GOD, okay,
are we going to go for you just
going to f around? And that's
literally I feel like what
we're doing here. None of this
is difficult. This is not hard.
I mean, I don't have to turn
around and every hand in the
room went up to everyone in the
room, but also in the room went
up. Yeah. All right. So I rest
my case with that
visualization. There's so much
more to say. But I.
What look at what's happening
in the world. Can we insulate
ourselves from it? Not entirely
isolated cells
from it. No, we affected by
what happens in Iran. What
happened in China? What happens
in Venezuela? Yes.
So what are we going to do
about that reason that people
who want to make? But lots of
money?
Far addictions and our
attention deficit disorders and
off our hatreds. We let them
do that to us. It's insane.
So it's not difficult. It's
not difficult. I appreciate
the examples where the places
the labor question is so
delicate. Because young been
abused, abused. It's crazy.
Devil we energies employee a
union do show up at a hearing.
We're trying to say they don't
build a gas plant. It's going
to kill people. People don't
want it. They don't even know
what's happening. It's going
to cost of so much money and
then it's going to not want
be used anymore. We're still
gonna pay for it. We can't
afford anything else in our
lives. And this brave man steps
up because the utility said go
and he reads a statement about
how he's so grateful that the
utility give says family health
care's that his child or
whoever loved one in his life
can actually get health care to
deal with the illness that they
most likely got from the fact
that they work at a coal plant.
It's just not hard to do.
It's just not hard. And it's
so clear that in 10 years, 20
years, 50 years from now,
depending on how this goes,
everybody's a look back and
say, well, what did you all do
with a 9 people heared? What
job do about it? Because
everybody was telling you what
the f to do about it. Did you
do it?
Thank you.
A technical question and maybe
first-look answer just ones.
That is what are the typical
models that are used for me as
well should because we have a
large public shareholder on
utility that is regional, as
he's pointed out.
There are no generating
stations in what is one
generating station in with the
city of Milwaukee. That's very
small, primarily supplies
steam. The major generating
capacity is outside the city of
Milwaukee. And in some cases
outside the county of
Milwaukee.
There's transmission lines
which is a high voltage long
distance transmission
equipment, their substations,
theirs. The distribution
network, which is the poles and
wires we see in our
neighborhoods. And then there's
this vast array. As MISTER
Rosenberg pointed out, there's
material yards. There's even
Tories of Poles and
transformers and spare parts
sitting in a yard waiting to be
deployed in the case of renewal
or repair.
And then the whole question of
all their vehicle to me, they
must have 1000 light trucks are
hundreds of light trucks that
we it is a situation where
okay, you get 3, we get one.
You get 3 of these. We get one
of these. The how does this
work in practice? One of the
models for municipal as Asian
or is this more financial
exercise where we basically are
become just a reseller of power
and leave the infrastructure
under the ownership most or all
of it and continue ownership
of the shareholder when
utility.
That would. That would be where
the feasibility study comes
into play to look at all that.
But generally. The public care
utility, most public power
utilities are distribution,
only utilities. So you would
likely. One option would be to
just purchased the distribution
system, which would be the clue
to the polls on the wires
within the city of Milwaukee.
And then you would out there
and then you would get your
power supply from somewhere
else you could. If you wanted
to generate it yourself, you
could. But most public power
utilities purchase Harris plan
on the open market or they work
with joint action agencies
which are groups of public
power, utilities that come
together for power supply.
So they'll so here in
Wisconsin, wpp, I energy is
a joint actually agency that
provides power to their members
in Wisconsin in I believe
they've one or 2 in Michigan
as well. So they the purchase
date the community will
purchase power supply from
those entities in terms of
trucks and those types of
equipment that could that could
be negotiated. But likely the
city would purchase their
tracks. There are materials
moving forward. He wouldn't.
Purchase them from we energies.
Mostly we ever do. Most likely
you would purchase and have
your own supply yard where you
would have a, you know, a
supply of poles and wires and
so forth and I will say on the
the idea of when there's a
storm or you need extra
assistance, you know, public
power utilities, if the city of
Milwaukee were to form of
public power utility, your
crews would live and work in
the community that the first
priority in a storm would be
to restore power here in
Milwaukee. So you have people
that understand the system.
They lived here. Their friends
and family are here. They have
a vested interest in return.
Restoring
power quickly beyond that,
there is a mutual aid network
of public power, utilities,
investor owned utilities,
co-ops.
Come together. A ppa is the
national convener of Public
Power. Utilities that set
whenever there is an unexpected
storm. We meet. We have
regional coordinators to me
throughout the U.S. And they
stage crews to come in and help
public power utilities. And
then once they've restored
power to those public pair
utilities, they help with co-op
restoration and investor owned
utility restoration as well.
So just because you have a
public Perry utility doesn't
mean you don't have broader
access to cruise.
Across the country and often
it is across the country.
You start regionally that we've
had crews from Washington State
go to Florida to help with some
of these storm restoration.
So there is a network out
there, but I would say it is
extremely important to protect.
The the employees and the Union
employees. When you go through
this and there are ways to do
that, that's extremely
important.
And there are multiple ways to
do that. So I think that but
that goes without saying is you
you went to whether it's
providing them the same
package, whether it's
outsourcing your operations and
bringing them on as employees.
There are different ways to do
that. But that is extremely
important. Would this be a
more efficient exercise?
It was all a Milwaukee County.
Which is 245 square miles.
Milwaukee's 96 square miles.
Milwaukee County's 900 and
40,000 people. The city's 5.70,
and dropping. I'm just curious
with that being more efficient
model to at least aspire to.
I believe. So. I believe that
that I legally might be more
efficient, but that would still
run into the same legal
complications of just how big
the we energies infrastructure
is and the realities. And I'm
not an engineer. I went to law
school an bad at math. But you
know, that goes into the
realities of just how big this
infrastructure is and how
intertwined it is throughout
southeastern Wisconsin. Any
other questions of the board?
Yeah, I've got a few. Sure.
Thank you so much. Yes. So just
a couple things that popped up
in And the I just want make
sure the listening audience in
the folks here we touched a
little bit on revenue. Bonds
for says general obligation
to finance on. I just want to
point out a couple things.
Can't think maybe you can
confirm been your research is
found when the city revenue
bonds to acquire income
producing assets such as the
infrastructure of utility that
does not count against r
bonding cap in the state's
constitution. Is that correct?
As far as I'm aware, I did not
have the opportunity to do
extensive research on that
topic. That was a little bit
outside my original parameters.
But to my knowledge, that is
correct. And that stated in
Article 6 of the right of the
state's constitution, that that
cap is exceeded when it comes
to. So the the question and
then a revenue by your research
is structured in a way that
like the city itself are other
assets besides the utility
infrastructure would not rdr
Treasury would not be on the
hook when a revenue bond is
issuing of years. Looking
provides more details and that
too. So we issue a revenue bond
to make the acquisition or to
upgrade the infrastructure
that doesn't. That means that
will that hasn't. That hasn't
downgraded the credit of these
other cities that do this and
it and it certainly hasn't put
their treasuries in jeopardy
or made the city's less
financially viable. Could you
could talk about that first
live. You've seen that with
the Saudis. Yeah, absolutely.
And so with revenue bonds
obviously all of the repayment
comes from the revenue that is
generated from the utility and
a utility is an essential
service. It's not a risky.
There are there will be revenue
generated from that utility.
So that's what's used to pay
back those revenue bonds.
And so that's completely
independent from the general
obligation, bonds. And then
once you have and you use as
revenue bonds to acquire the
system, once you've acquired
the system, all the
improvements or other other
investments you make can be tax
exempt. Bonds can be used for
for any upgrades or anything
after you've purchased the
system. So that's a much that's
a more financially feasible
type of finds that you're
saving money there by using
those Texas infants. So I think
there is there to benefits.
They're both using the revenue
bonds and then having access to
tax exempt Bonds, ft from the
utility. So I I like to think
of and maybe even Craig, if I'm
wrong. But I do think of this,
as you know, this is but it's
not legally assume it's a
kitchen or cousin of a mortgage
that we're taking out on this
property just like when people
decide to own their own home.
Very rarely. Does anybody have
the cash in their bank account
to purchase the House? They
will use credit to purchase
that. But then that builds
equity and you own an asset
that and have more legal rights
to it. It's like I mean, we
found benefit with It sounds
like with this. I mean, it's
not you know, I just I just
want to get from you or have
you confirm because some of the
concern that I've heard when
I've been out about has been
all this is going to wreck the
city financially, but actually,
you haven't found has there
been any example that you're
aware of across the United
States? We're a municipal
utility has caused the city
to declare bankruptcy or been
in financial ruin.
No, okay. There's no. There's
none. The are aware of that.
All ok, in fact, in fact, it's
actually like been the opposite
because sometimes these
utilities can make a transfer
to the general fund it there
if they have excess revenue.
Yeah, absolutely. And that's
one of the kind of the the
primary benefits of public
power. But another benefit of
public power is you are any
revenue that is generated
generated from the utility
stays in the community. It can
go back into the system in
terms of making system
improvements or it can be used
to reduce rates in the
community.
And most almost all, probably
all public power utilities with
the exception of Oklahoma
because they don't allow it.
But public power, utilities
provide tax exempt or payments
in lieu of taxes to the city.
So extra revenue goes to the
city to pay for other city
needs whether it be the police
department. The fire
department. Public schools.
Anything that is generated from
the committee, the utility goes
back into the city and state's
here for us is going to see
that stockholders who with our
water department. Exactly.
Yeah, already has a publicly
owned utility and that is the
water park and inequities and
in the past, MR. Sure you can
confirm we've received payments
maybe not every year, but we've
received payments and or
general fund. Everybody put
your hands are a little tacky.
That's exactly what we do know
is that it's, you know, them.
I had some further questions if
you don't mind, sir. Thank you
so much. Yeah, so that I just
really appreciate that because
that's a complicated issue.
But I think I really appreciate
what Brian brought the table
that in the end like there's
complexities. But it's a simple
concept that we want to own
one. Our own power. Jen, we
want to own our own utility.
You're right on. And just
for Grant when we talk about
potentially bring in a 3rd
party because I complete my
bed. I was the PRESIDENT Of
local. I can please stand with
organized labor in everything
that I do But I do see
friction a little bit here
where we have we have an
entity. I I think it is
possible. I'll say this.
I think it is possible for a
good employer which we are just
maybe I can't speak to that.
But what we have possible for
good employer to be a bad
member of the community.
I think that's what's going on.
I'm here. It's going that, you
know, those 2 tracks.
So we want, you know, we've
been just honor that. We want
to honor with the world with
the workers have their. I
haven't heard that from.
I mean, there have been
winners. Employees have told me
we're just not a good employer.
So I would, you know, challenge
the union also to make sure
they're asking every single
member what their thoughts are,
too. But as far as the 3rd
party entity that we could
bring in that is legally
possible to be identified for
us to manage the day-to-day
operations to avoid at 10
concerns. And this for birdie
in the audience are listening.
X 10 is the law that strips
what Wisconsin's public sector
workers from collective
bargaining to have contracts
similar to what Idw has with.
Well, we energies, but there
wouldn't be anything legally
stopping these workers of we
energies from themselves.
Forming a worker co-op to
manage the day-to-day
operations caught the boss
entirely for legally forming a
worker. Co-op that there's
works with the union to have
the same wages or better wages
and benefits than we are just
currently has. Is there
anything the found in the
statute that prohibits
something like that as we move
forward? There's nothing that I
have found in any statutes that
prohibits that the obligations
of any 3rd party management
entity really depend, you know,
their primary legal obligation,
as you know, if they are
acquiring these employees and
they intend to take on all of
the currently unionized
workforce that it was within
the acquisition. They have an
obligation to at the very least
come to the bargaining table
with those workforce is no,
they are not legally obligated
to honor the collective
bargaining agreement as it
currently stands. But they are
obligated to go to the table
with the union, which in any
possible world could result in
a better collective bargaining
agreement. So there is really
nothing legally that stop at
3rd party. Managing entity is a
matter of the will of the
third-party managing entity
and we can build that will
through worker power on the
job site. All just all this
comment that I'm interested for
a question first love because
of that. The issue has come
up. When I talk to constituents
of people about this issue of
small towns, right, that is
then the narrative being.
Oh, well, you know, this works
for Lily white, rural
Wisconsin. They have a little
weight, Jefferson, Wisconsin,
to have a municipal
utility. But nope, big, scary
Milwaukee. This is going to be
messed up. I'm here in
Milwaukee is the narrative that
the right wing and I'm sure
talk radio is going to be.
You're going to take that clip
and put it up on 11:30am.
Some point soon, too. The so
that's that's the narrative
right is like, oh, this works
in in small towns. The biggest
one we have in Wisconsin as
Manitowoc, which I believe is
just over 40,000 people.
So barely a drop compared to
what we have is forced
population. But you made a
comedy one time that it cares
if you could elaborate more
on that. There was some of the
reasons that we don't have more
of these big city utilities
because of the political will
that the utility industry has
to squash these things
specifically lake in Cleveland
when Dennis Kuz it was the
mayor. How the the actually try
to wrestle the Cleveland
utility from the city and put
back in private hands. I'm not
saying you need to be clear
that situation. But the gist is
that what you're seeing is that
what you guys are seeing that
there's a political is more of
a political fight regarding
with the big cities.
Yes, absolutely. And you know,
and I think part of the reason
the big cities are often run
by investor owned utility are
served by investor owned
utilities or that, you know,
when electricity first.
I guess. Yeah, the investor
owned utilities were willing to
serve those large communities
because they were profitable
and they weren't willing to
serve smaller communities.
So that's why public power
utilities started in small and
rural electric cooperatives.
Strip started in small
communities because the
investor owned utilities were
willing to serve them. That was
the only way they could get
power. So that's why you see a
lot of large utilities are
currently served by investor
owned utilities
we have seen a handful that
have transitioned from investor
owned utilities to public
power. They don't because the
company's Hilla t. We'll lose a
lot of money if they were to
form of public power utility
there, you know, by Milwaukee
forming a public or utility,
they're losing a million
customers. They're more willing
to give up a community of
20,000 customers than they are
larger community. So they're
going to fight it much harder.
They're going to there will be
loss or suits. There will be pr
campaigns and you have to be
prepared for that. But they're
not going to give up easily
because it's a it's a lot of
profit. A lot of customers, a
lot of revenue that they're
going to lose by by losing
these larger cities.
I would like to add to our
experience in the public
Service Commission docket work
the last 4 years. He's made
it really clear and attempts to
to like prohibit.
We energies use of rate payer
dollars to effectively lobby
against public interest rates.
So they making campaign and
political donations. They are
slap a new name on any
building. Even if that building
has to do with I don't know
that climate science or public
health, which is
again, insane using our our
money right to do all their
pr stuff. In some cases, we
discovered that they're paying
their attorneys over $3,000
an hour.
We're $1000 an hour. It's in
regardless. It's insane, right?
But that's not their money.
That's that's our money.
So I just I think it's very
important right to on the one
hand to know that like that's
reckless use of public funds
rate for relief for private
gain. That also really works
and distorts our political
system. So it becomes really
difficult to find political
solutions in a situation where
you have such thorough.
Corporate capture of regulatory
agencies and the Legislature
by extension. And thank you so
much that Brennan Mike's my
question to the Idw would be
that, you know what? We seem to
have the bones of a path here
to honor what you guys have
with we energies, if not
improve it for the day-to-day
worker and so we have this path
and if we are able to outline
and find even more about this
path and clarify it, will the
ibew public to support this?
Kelly comment whether or not
they're going to support or
not, the ibew, his best
interest is really just getting
the best contract and benefits
for its members.
That's the only thing I can
really say to that is a
community benefit coming to
your guys considerations.
Yes, I can be a question for
me. Sorry, okay.
The what I've seen with my
brothers and sisters in the
ibew across this country is
that there's been a politically
joined the utilities to oppose
these things. For example, in
Maine, the question of public
ownership was on the ballot
in Maine. In addition to
utilities, spending on a
misleading ad campaign. The
ibew joined with millions of
dollars expended out of its
political action committee.
As far as the vote. No campaign
in Maine. Are you aware of any
place in the United States
where the Idw has supported
public power of public power.
Endeavor.
I am not aware of a vice chair
in the union and operations
dispatchers says about the
level I have.
And that's what I just want to
assure these questions is
questions, get get put out
there. I mean, we stand in
solidarity with rather it like
and we want, you know, we want
every dispatcher to have a
better job. We just want the
ceo did not have a job
and like that's that's where
that's where a little too early
for. Our our case is not
against anybody. A member of
the committee member of bwi
that I think a lot of the
members of the committee are
disappointed with iv w's
continued support of we
energies publicly on its
lockstep support up. And also,
frankly, in a week it w
standing with the construction
of data centers because of its
support for ai. I think a lot
of people are disappointed that
because we want to be in
solidarity with you all.
But we're not seeing solidarity
for the cup for the community,
from the Brotherhood of
electrical workers at this
time.
That's what we do best. We pull
double that. So we build the
worker, an economy that we
want. You I'm very frank about
that. Like that's how we build
is what we all stand together.
In 1, 1, union when one union
says that my interest come
before the rest of the
community, everybody sees that
when they might win. Union says
ai data centers are so
important that we have to have
the political will to build
them and constructing I don't I
don't begrudge anybody building
that. That is what I do.
Not begrudge the day-to-day
worker at a data center because
they have a job and they need
to feed their families too.
But as an institution, I would
call in the Idw to join the
rest of committees to oppose
data centers and up and join us
in opposing we energies.
I will say to the ibew credit,
you know, the dnc has met with
you guys like you could.
We have had conversation like
there's not been a closed door.
I can really appreciate that
So but I just don't want to
offer these things. We have a
legal path. We have a legal
path of the union to set up a
worker co-op and make it make
and get on the best deal it can
from that co-op it is legal
for Good Corcoran. Costa have
union contracts, a live mic,
Seminole Strange. But that is a
legal arrangement that could
be created under existing law.
Were you guys could set the
wages and benefits that that
you want and then we could have
a managing entity and that's
until we get back 10
overturned, which I think MAY
happen so it like and then you
know that we can have you
joined the, you know, in the
Derby could have a contract
with the city to the question
of the grid because I do want
to come back. I think maybe
Ursula can speak to this.
The question of of the grid
like I mean, I really
appreciate what we are just
been saying that they're that
they're more efficient, a grid
white. I mean, that's that's
the case for taking over the
entire grid crosses in her
state or nation, bring all that
under public First, let like.
Maybe you can comment like,
for example, La is is the
largest municipal utility in
the country. I mean, they
probably have a ring of suburbs
that with Pg e I believe the
Genie Service territory.
What la for getting the exact
name of their utility, but
cell. And I think I know some
people from the public comment
or to be sharing some stories
about the la above power and
light as well. But
you know how it how easily been
as far as as far as its ability
the Palisades fire happened?
You know that what reckless?
I mean, how did how did the
public power utility respond to
that and how to respond on a
day to day, even if it is an
island amidst pga Pacific Gas
and electric side service
territory.
Well, I mean, I would say, you
know, once again, it comes down
to that local oversight.
And, you know, when there are
issues within the community or
the utility.
The committee, the utility has
to respond. Because customers
are. They're demanding answers.
And the ceo and all the
employees live and work in the
community, they can walk up to
the cfo of the Los Angeles
Department of Water and Power
in the grocery store. You know,
they have immediate access to
them. You can call the mayor
and that is that encourage it
forces the utilities to address
the needs that that part of
a concern. And of course there
are there are wildfires in la
as well and they have to But
they have done a really good
job.
Restoring and rebuilding their
system since that last wild
fire. And we actually we have
our cold front and national
conference coming up starting
tomorrow. And we have the
interim general manager from
Los Angeles Department of Water
and Power coming to talk about
how they went through that
restoration effort and what
they've learned and how can
other public power utilities
learn from them. So that's it.
The public power network is
really strong. The we learn
from one another, they're
willing to share best
practices. And that's what a
ppa is there to do is to make
sure that public power
utilities have an opportunity
to learn from one another.
Thank you so much and it seemed
to me there was mutual aid from
what I read these materials
that when when the la well
first happened, there was
mutual aid from other municipal
utilities. The came in, we have
municipal utilities around the
state of Wisconsin as well.
We have wp Pa and I would
appreciate you explain a little
more about that because that's
as a joint action agency.
They build generation work with
municipal utilities like so
there's already it. Please
confirm this. There's the right
now in Wisconsin that exist
today that municipal utility
Milwaukee could link him to
to for support and and
generation facilities. And our
could you please just elaborate
more on toward action agencies
are essentially their groups
of public power, utilities that
come together for power supply.
So wpp,
I energy is a joint action
agency that has members thereby
believe they have 50 or more
members in Wisconsin and
surrounding states. But there
are joint action agencies all
across the country. There are
some in and whether you were
served by wpp. I energy either
is American municipal power at
There are several in Minnesota
and so those are opportunities.
So you don't have to build your
own power supply and joint
action agencies can small surf,
small communities, but they
also serve Los Angeles
Department of Water Power,
Pasadena, a lot of those larger
California utilities are served
by the Southern California
Public Power Authority. So it
it's not a unique situation.
It's all across the country
and there they are. These
provide both power supply that
many of them provide additional
services, whether it be energy
efficiency programs, it MAY be
safety training. Get the
they've certain they provide a
number of resources to help
public power utilities provide
better service to their
customers. So this wouldn't be
Milwaukee. Just going it alone.
Now, there's that we're here
for you guys that you have like
80 staff and your offices in
Washington that are in the
Washington area that service
public power, utilities.
And so I just want to confirm
that lake, the level of
expertise that we energies MAY
have because of larger size
couldn't be. We can provide an
equal support for a public
power entity in Milwaukee as
well. Absolutely. In public
pair utilities higher from the
same pool of employees and
individuals that investor owned
utilities higher from many of
our the general managers are
CEOs of our utilities come from
investor owned utilities and
vice versa. So there is a
there's it's not like there's
just a that employee pool for
investor owned utilities and
co-ops and investor unease or
public care utilities.
It's everybody. So you're
pulling from the same workforce
that we energies is calling
for, calling from. And then
like I said before, the public
power community, there are 2000
public care utilities in the in
the U.S. They have over time.
Over at probably over a
million. I don't know how many
employees they have off the top
of my head. But, you know,
hundreds of thousands, if not
more employees, they come to.
They come together. They
support one another through
mutual aid. We have events
where they come together.
We have our national conference
where we have 2000, almost 2000
people coming this weekend to
hear from other public power
utilities network make
connections so they can call
each other when there is a
crisis and or they just need
help. They have questions and
ap can can be a convener for
that. But you also have the
municipal electric utilities of
Wisconsin there. And it's those
state association here in
Wisconsin that represents the
Wisconsin utilities. You have
the joint action agency.
So there's a really strong
their work within public power
for support and resources to
assist. Thank you so much.
I MAY have further questions
come, but I noticed I want to
other people ask what are the
questions from members of the
board before we go to public
commentary and just a quick
question, her assault, if we
go to this model of publicly
owned utility in Milwaukee
doesn't mean Milwaukee has to
build its own power plant,
right? They can buy on the open
from And so can you live right
on that? Because some people
MAY be scattered. All we have
to build their own power plant.
Yeah, absolutely. The vast
majority of public power
utilities do not own
generation. Some of them own
small peaking units but very
few own generation themselves.
They buy it on the open market
or they work through joint
action agencies or partner with
other public power utilities,
even so definitely you can own
some generation sometimes
public power utilities are more
inclined to maybe have solar
generation or wind generation
or renewable generation
locally. But it really that's
it's really the decision that
the community makes on whether
you have that or whether you
purchase it on the open market.
And that's where the
feasibility study is an
important part of that. It can
look at what the options are,
you know, and what is important
to you as a community and work
that into the feasibility
analysis and determine what
the costs would be. If you
chose to.
Invest in whatever you would
like to invest in. Yeah, we
energies has been particularly
bad. I understand and buying
renewable energy from
individuals who has put solar
panels on the roof. And so with
this with this model is maybe
maybe easier have solar panels
on and housing with we wear
than this new entity would buy
it.
Yeah, that's definitely a
possibility. Once again, if
the community wants that,
that's what to keep the utility
can do if they choose to.
And and I believe all on the
search area believe Alderwoman
Taylor's on the board also have
a question in my text messages
I could ask is well on and so
that she had issued a question
or does he
want to of all the all the
other euro? Yeah. Hi. Thank you
so much for letting me ask this
question. I I guess I am.
I'm excited about the idea of
possibility of possibly having
a public how utility company,
but
concern would be that with
that. But with the everyday
citizen who is has high deals.
So that's why this topic would
be of importance to me
because here there are houses
that have outdated, anything
can run
furnaces and things like that.
And until you have high bills
because of that, and so how
does having a public power
utility company
it helped to make that better
for for the everyday citizen
and had the basically because
they're renting. How does that
how does that help or how would
that affect them?
It once again, it really comes
down to it. That's an issue
that's important to the
community. Then public power,
utilities all across the
country offer different
services every every community
is different. They MAY have low
income programs. They MAY have
programs where they go in and
renovate
renovate the hvac or, you know,
or have contracts with
companies that can going to do
that. And that's where each
community is able to make the
decision themselves. Obviously,
a large investor owned utility
can't customize the services
for every single community
serve when they serve multiple
communities across many states
often. So that's where public
pair are really. It allows you
to decide what you want to
focus on. And if if that's
important to the community.
And you can develop
those services 2 on for the
two-year permit community.
That's exactly what public
power is. You can customize
your services to meet the needs
of your customers.
Andy. And to be backing them
are chair for Brian. You've
participated a lot of these
dockets before Public Service
Commission. Can you confirm for
me that the kind of mechanism
here like the utility makes
proposals to the psc and then
the psc adjudicate those
proposal. So
you could. I'm imagining that
we could make a proposal the
psc to make it easier and
better for low-income customers
to keep the lights on here in
Milwaukee or potentially even
have a shot off moratorium,
like I believe, is being
practiced in la right now with
our municipal utility. I mean,
what you see the ripples, what
do you see as far as the gamut
in the possibility that we have
for proposals? The psc we I
believe they believe weeks left
to go through them as a
municipal utility. Yeah.
I mean, I think.
To some of what we were talking
about earlier, the regulatory
capture by the investor owned
utility of the entity that is
supposed to regulate it is a
structural problem, right?
And so you have 4 and the
Department of Natural Resources
is is implicated in this as
well. And of course, the
Legislature, 80.
Because they all kind of pass
the buck, right? They say will.
And can they do that or if we
do do that, vote with our like
with the data and with
community concern and with
cetera, they will get fired
because the legislation, the
Legislature confirms
appointments to the Public
Service commission. So that's
one problem, right? There's a
structural issue about the
regulatory system that just
confers advantage to people who
already have power and access.
So that's a big problem
specifically to your point
around that. So what is our
experience in the dockets ban?
Well, that's
was it like that's resistance,
right? We do not want things to
happen. Like rate increases.
So will go argue against that.
I would say pretty
compellingly.
The outcome of that first rate
case in 20 to 22 win Walnut
Way held its ground.
Forced the public Service
commission to mandate the
utility we energies and some
other intervening parties,
including all the way to enter
what became a 3 year.
Conversation. I shouldn't
downplay it. It was an
investigative docket around
affordability. How are we going
to?
Collectively negotiate the
terms of a low-income
affordability program that
actually addresses the scale of
the need of the utilities
captive customers.
It's a ridiculous sentence that
I just said, right? Yeah.
Okay. So making sure people are
clocking that.
Because that then falls back to
hey. So if resistance is really
hard, if what Coleman dates
from that 3 year, nearly
three-year process is a series
of recommendations that pse
staff makes to the
commissioners. Then we are not
their bank because people's
bills aren't getting any less.
But the people's bills are
going down. They're only going
up. So we actually haven't
accomplished anything in that
arena except for the
realization that we need to
do more than resist. We have to
build right. So that we're and
the psc is proactive and
offering grants for feasibility
studies around solar generation
right along the way is going to
build that some point in the
short order, a megawatt of
solar in Lindsay Heights.
But how do how does that
translate into immediate relief
for? Residents of Lindsay
Heights. That's really
complicated. Legally. The
ownership structure is a
complicated why? Well, again,
because our political system
has been held hostage by the
dictates of private capital.
And Gail Clapper, you know,
to, but I guess what I'm what
I'm positive view is that like
we could as a municipal
utility, then make up our own
positive proposals to the psc.
You haven't seen anything
that's blocked a good idea from
being proposed by utility
except except the utility
investors not wanting to make
of proposals re? Well, I mean,
because as they say, like the
system is, the system is so
ridiculous. It's actually very,
very brittle, right? It's
actually not all that
resilient. If the public knows
the pressure points, this is a
really good pressure point.
Now some people say this is
this is this doesn't make any
sense because if we do this,
then that means despite
everything in your
presentation, though, still
assume conclude prematurely.
That then that means we're just
got the contract. We energies
to operate the whole thing in
the making charges, whatever
they want to really lose money.
And that's some people are
running that argument right
now. It lacks imagination.
It
also expects so. Yeah. So we
see it. We can't listen to
those people, right? We can't
listen to. People were saying
like, oh, I don't know what
we've done this before with
down the block. They've done it
successfully for decades.
We can't listen to the people
who say, well, it's not use
our imagination was not believe
in the people to think together
to solve their own problems.
We're gonna build a megawatt of
solar in the heights. We're
going to figure out a way again
this year point to the Public
Service Commission got a really
good idea on how to connect
that in 2, the current energy
grid and then because we don't
have community solar enabling
legislation because we can't
with the figure out another
way to channel a bill credit.
2 people who live in the
Lindsay Heights improvement
neighborhood improvement,
District 2. But that's what
we'll be right will generate
this power will store some.
We'll sell. We come back and
what we make. We then
distribute as a bill credit to
the residents living there,
bringing down people's energy
right? Also, let's talk about
comprehensive solutions because
you can't think about this in
isolation. The energy system
dictates. I mean. A friend of
mine is writing a book about
energy policy. And if you can
tell the history of the world
just through. Looking at the
oil tankers, Satan.
Abby Martin just released an
incredible documentary about
the United States military
complex is the largest consumer
of fossil fuels.
Watch that. But the
comprehensive. But this is not
a comprehensive approach.
It is going to not be as
effective as it could be.
Otherwise. That's why we would
want to have a city wide
discussion about this and then
a citywide utility tonight by
the county wide discussion to
Alderman Bauman's point.
I think it's really salient and
we MAY we MAY be constructed
by statute on that because one
97 is only for municipalities,
but I believe one 98, which
we haven't fully explored.
But chapter one, 98 provides
for multiple municipalities
to join together. Is that
correct? That is my
understanding. Yes. So there's
there are possibilities there
as well.
And I love cops aren't sure
don't know. You're doing fine.
I'm just saying like if we're
having this discussion because
evil corporate actor is making
lives difficult for everybody,
workers and everybody remember
the hands that raise an
unexpected expense. Then it
makes sense that we would be
having this same conversation
about any other system that
delivers necessary benefit to
the public right. So we're
talking about in terms of
energy and we energies. Why
would we not also be talking
about it? And so I just we've
got to stress that like all of
this is connected. And thus
the problems are systemic and
we have the power to figure
out in advance solutions and
I applaud this as it as it
really. Encouraging step in
that direction. Okay. Thank you
so much
in that MR. Him that I have
2 questions
does establishing a municipal
public utility.
Take you out from under the
Public Service Commission
regulation? No, it does not.
It is still under the psc.
And as that happened in some
states, there are only 12
states that public power
utilities are regulated by the
Public Service Commission.
So it it's unique, but there
are 11 other states that do
that as well.
Thank you. And my other
question, just out of
curiosity.
Have there been any?
Municipalities that had public
utilities that have gone the
other direction that it
privatized.
Yeah. And once again, there's
ownership changes in either
direction or air. They're
pretty even. You know, we do
have it is also very small
communities that typically have
not been maintaining their
system that and they usually
sell to a rural electric
cooperative. Actually, they
very rarely sell to an investor
owned utility. It's almost
always a rural electric
cooperative that surrounds
them. And there are those small
communities that have just it's
easier for them to sell to the
to the co-op. So that does that
changes happen in both
directions. But there's no huge
movement in either direction.
To be honest.
And that it all just offer that
did happen in Wisconsin.
We have 82 municipal utility
went on to 81. It was a rural
community. I'm forgetting the
name right now. But there was a
world community that decided
it was a town of 600 people and
they decided why are we doing
this separately? We have a and
so they made a decision
democratically to does all that
and join. I believe the role
Co-operative, the I believe was
dairyland that they joined up
with. I also add, though, like
the existence of the public
service commission and this
sort of uniqueness of their
regulating public power.
It could actually be a real
advantage to as much as as much
as I complain about the public
service commission and the
valid complaints. They know it.
They're brilliant. You know, I
mean, look, they're really,
really smart, dedicated people
that, you know, public servants
that are committed to.
Doing things correctly, right?
So like they are rigorous and
and they will accept good
ideas, right? I think it's
again, not about individuals
working in institutions, but
rather like the institutions
themselves just structurally
don't allow for the best ideas.
The best methods, the best data
to prevail. So I think under
different circumstances and
different structural
arrangements that regulatory
relationship would actually
be extremely beneficial as
another layer of oversight and
regulation on top of the local
institutions.
Okay. I think we can go to
public comment. We're all on
schedule.
And MR. Believe a few of our
experts do need to leave at
some point. Take a look at what
the experts are willing to
welcome to stay for goal,
whoever your schedules require
because we will use the
standing. Mike for public
comment. So the folks at the
table can stay at the table if
they wish to.
So we were trying to close this
off
at noon. So that gives us 65 to
hear public testimony. I'm
going to try to restrict full.
We have 46.
Forms filled out for public
testimony. It here, folks have
the same basic message for us.
You're you're you're entitled
to be brief.
There's no there's no
requirement that we reinvent
the wheel every 46 times a week
testify here. And so we will go
in the order that they were
collected and please used to
standing. Mike and we will jump
right into again. We will we
have the time or if we're going
to try to put folks on a 2
minute time. Secrets are out of
respect for everybody. So for
everybody, almost everybody can
be heard. What we're trying
to get the 42 in in 65 minutes.
So that's a little under 2
minutes ever change.
Could we get field glasses out
there?
Okay. First up is a morrow
Aaron.
MR. Chair. If you read the
second or 3rd mean to them, a
couple people can line up in
John McIntyre after that, Lisa
Cottrell after that.
I live in River a tutor.
I worked for historic theater.
Every degree in media studies.
I'm not here with a group lets
you consider my neighbors or
friends who can't be here
because they work 9 to 5.
It's been a long time since I
could afford to work one job.
And one of the things that I
really struggle with is with
our bills with we energies,
we've seen concentrate heights
rate hikes. Despite 1.6 billion
dollars in profit. Last I heard
for we energies. I know the ceo
has also talked about the $0
paid in taxes. Please correct
me if I'm wrong on that.
And I'm thinking about the
future. I don't want to beg
for mercy from we energies when
it comes to deciding rates.
We have constant outages,
constant gas leaks of survive.
3 gas leaks at home. Now.
One of the things we know
that's happening due to climate
change. Tornado Alley is
shifting further east, even in
Milwaukee, which normally has
been well protected by the
lake. We're seeing much more
common like the large storms,
damaging trees and
infrastructure.
And I do think it's ironic that
the we energies representative
talks about the city taking a
gamble when we energies is
insisting that we as a city
allowed data centers to foist
the risks of data center
center, credit requirements on
to regular rate pairs as
reported by Wisconsin. Watch.
My background in media studies
of one of the things that I
really want to be able to
communicate. I know I've a
short amount of time is up to
speak about the tech bubble.
Obviously, technology is sort
of a hot moment right now.
Commerce is flowing quickly and
intensely, but it is a volatile
market. And everybody right now
is trying to get theirs before
this bubble bursts. The tech
comes on quick is funded
frequently by actors in the
defense sector. Rarely sees
widespread adoption. But as
propped up by the private
interests. And I just want to
ask how it can be that we live
in a time where it's treated
as an inevitability that the
infrastructure for data centers
will be built. But we can't
imagine building infrastructure
for publicly owned utilities.
What I hope for is a stronger
and more resilient community in
Milwaukee. I love my neighbors.
I love this city. I love living
here and I would love to see
the wealth and the extraction.
I don't want this wealth from
the city to continue to be
extracted to we energies
shareholders. There's an
obvious economic benefit to
keeping money in the city and
public goods have value far
beyond their economic value.
There's a reason that we value
public public transit, public
education, public utilities
should fall under that same
value for the what they provide
to us as a society. I thank you
so much for your time.
A few minutes. But go ahead.
Hi, thanks for the time.
My name is John McIntyre.
I'm proud to say that I live in
the city of Milwaukee. I reside
at 39. 41 south of 60th Street.
I'm also really proud to say
that I'm a licensed electrician
in the idw. My state license
number is one to 8, 5, 2, 7,
8 Dash j Eaton and my Union
card number is 4, 7, 4, 3, It's
7, 3, 5, But I'm here speaking
just as myself as a resident,
the taxpayer and as a member of
the Milwaukee dsa and as a
canvas or for the part of
people campaign.
I'm here to support. I'm here
to voice my support in dairy
say to demand public power for
the city of Milwaukee. I
believe the choice for the
consumer is clear. Let's talk a
little bit more about the
impact on the workers. I would
like to invite my union
brothers and sisters
represented by local 21 50 in
both the outside line work and
uni sectors. The professional
and industrial sectors to
review our plan. And to remain
open to the opportunity to
negotiate their well earned
and well-deserved improvements
in wages, benefits and working
conditions with the city rather
than sitting across the
bargaining table from a massive
for profit corporate entity.
I suspect that the bargaining
position and the contractual
options available improve for
workers under our plan while
keeping costs low in improving
service quality.
Including shortening the
duration of service outages.
I think this makes it a win-win
situation for both of our
area's workers and our
residents. I think the only
losers in this proposition are
the executives and
shareholders. I don't see them
in this room. So I take
seriously, this is a little bit
of a shibboleth for my brother
who decided to not stay but
I take seriously my obligation,
my promise, my agreement to
further the purposes for which
the I b w's Institute. It my
promise to bear true allegiance
to it and it never sacrifice
its interests in any manner.
And I so I see no reason to
believe that our public power
plan for the city of Milwaukee
is contrary to that solemn
promise. I would not be
fighting for a plan that sells
out or sell short by outside up
and I brothers and sisters of
the I b w nor the inside and
of local 4.94 Were employed in
ongoing generation upgrades
projects that we energies
facilities continuing to allow
we energies to extract profits
from city residents sell this
all out for me. The choice is
clear. The Common Council
should move urgently towards
replacing we energies with a
publicly owned utility provider
in solidarity.
We have a couple of folks
lineup, but Andy Barber and
Steinberg me down here. Hi,
good morning. My name is Doctor
Lisa Cottrell. I'm a Milwaukee
resident and clinical health.
Psychologist, you've heard
today about the greed of we
energies and the economic in
service benefits of publicly
owned utilities. Those include
more rapid transition to
renewables, a benefit to public
health.
Consider then the grievous and
even fatal human caused of
profit driven energy.
Think of my patient Cora, a car
had several medical conditions.
She worked very hard to manage.
She came to me because she
still struggled with chronic
pain and sleep problems as we
work to improve her sleep.
I learned that the nighttime
temperature in her Milwaukee
home was reaching 90 degrees
many nights well above the safe
temperature for healthy adults.
She had air conditioning.
She would not use it because
the cost of running it had
become too high. But the cost
to health and well-being from
sleep deprivation. Their
results from high night time.
Temperatures is even greater.
I've seen many patients whose
health is damaged as a
consequence of bills. So high,
that healthy home environment
cannot be maintained. This
incalculable human cost compels
us to replace the profit
driven. We energies with a
public utility and truly serve
the public good. Thank you.
Thank you.
Hi, my name is Andy Barber.
I'm co-chair of the Milwaukee
Democratic Socialists of
America. I want to share some
more facts and figures from our
research that we've conducted
our campaign and most of us are
familiar with these as
ratepayers. But we energies was
granted in late 2020 for a 6.9%
rate increase that affected
all customers in 2025. In an
additional 4.8% increase for
the year 2026, which is a total
of 12% in these 2 years.
And these rate increases as
well as the year prior. You
know, unsurprisingly help to
make Milwaukee the second most
expensive major U.S. City for
utilities with average monthly
monthly bills of more than $580
a month and over 4,350 a year
per household. For the past
several years, we energies
rates per kilowatt hour have
been 30 to 40% higher than
public power rates from
Wisconsin. Public power,
utilities and the psc that
we've been talking about does
guarantee we energies a profit
rate of 9.8% And this limit
doesn't even in practice mean
that we energies is capped at
this rate of 9.8% The utility
provides a yearly estimates
which the psc reviews and
approves. And then we energies
then sets the rates
accordingly. However, of
course, in the event that costs
are lower revenues higher than
anticipated. The actual rate
of return is going to be higher
than that actual target rate of
9.8% So the decision makers at
companies such as we energies
are still very much
incentivized to engage in
profit maximizing behaviors
despite this, you know, quote,
unquote, profit limit. And in
Wisconsin, residents with
private utilities experience
108 minutes of downtime in a
typical year for says. 48
minutes a year for those served
by public utilities in the
state. I'd last but not least.
I do want to say that we
energies has committed to
eliminating coal usage by 2032
and is striving to reach carbon
neutrality by the year 2050,
which these commitments failed
to meet. Even the more modest
target set by the state of
Wisconsin, which has a goal
of carbon-free electricity by
2050. And of course, are still
far below the limits that we
need in order to actually
meaningfully fight climate
change in this community.
So all this to conclude that
we need Democratic control of
our utility here in Milwaukee
and our economy as a whole.
I would argue. Thanks so much.
My name is and Steinberg.
I live in Milwaukee. I didn't
prepare remarks. But one thing
I wanted to add that I haven't
heard is that we energies is
guaranteed profits for making
decisions that are bad. I
watched them build a power
plant. That was coal powered
when the communities that they
didn't want. It was a bad
economic decision. Now, that
plant is no longer need is way
too expensive to use coal and
the rate payers have to pay
to keep for their mistakes so
over and over. They've made
decisions that were bad for
our community and they've
profited from it. And I think
that's one of the reasons we
need public control and also
the psc doesn't listen to
environmental or health
concerns. And I think a
municipal on. Utility would put
our interests first. So thank
you. Thank you.
If a dancer and Brian intense
key and did you say Madonna,
you before you get your yeah
here in the next post. Got it.
Thanks. So yeah, I'm Amy
Donahue. My pronouns are they
Sheehy rolling? I live in the
River West neighborhood and the
candidate for public office and
a member of Citizen action of
Wisconsin. The Green Party,
the health care workers,
organization, healthy Climate,
Wisconsin, for the month.
And the Milwaukee dsa today.
I'm speaking in absolute
support of the creation of a
municipal public energy
utility. I'm speaking as a
clinical health care worker.
And as a librarian grounded
in evidence-based practice.
What that means is working at
the intersection of knowledge,
gained through research,
expert, opinion and communities
and individuals with lived
experience professionally and
politically. I am an advocate
for true informed consents
which includes having choices
knowing what each choice means
and having the resources to
make choices responsibly.
Everything I've read and
learned and talked with people
about tells me that a public
power utility is evidence based
solution. We need.
And informed consent along with
that of the thousands of
Milwaukee and to have been
working for this for years.
Thanks for the Ptp campaign
and rest assured. We'll keep
that up and we'll keep working
to bring more folks in. In
addition to my healthcare
background as a person with
asthma parents and a community
organizer. I also bring my
personal perspective, an
argument that a public power
utility is what we need to
democratically indirectly built
clean energy in support of
public health, emergency
preparedness and response.
That is knowledgeable and
responsible to our community
and keep costs affordable and
transparent. Change can be hard
and even scary. But the people
of this community has was being
brought up as after I read,
these are ready to support each
other, including the we
energies records who could be
impacted and the democratically
elected leaders who are from
our communities and accountable
to us. So thank you to the many
people who work to get us in
this room together to the
members of this board. So the
experts who showed up today and
to all the working class people
who are here in person and in
spirit, the power of the people
in stop. And I'm so grateful to
be a tiny part of this work
demonstrates what that phrase
means and tried to commit to
continuing whatever comes next.
Coming up after police.
Who's up next? The Bryan
intensity. Please.
All right. You're going to live
right by the U.S. Hi. My name
is Ava. I'm a uwm student and
I wanted to talk about my
experience with we energies as
a college student
when I was in my old apartment,
i had 4 other roommates.
And during the winter time I
was wearing sweaters and
multiple layers of sweat pants
every night because it was
freezing in my apartment.
We found out that my landlord
had let a broken window.
Stay open throughout the
duration of winter and our
electric bill because of this
broken window was $600 a month
split between us
this is more so a matter of
bringing up the point of
autonomy in our ability to
live.
My landlord told us to stay
warm when we tried to address
it and we didn't have a pathway
to actually bring up the
problem again or to lower the
price of electricity. So I
guess.
The point I'm trying to make is
that this is autonomy that all
of us in this room, one to gain
and this is the path way of
doing it. Yeah. Thank. Thank
you.
A tense key will have submit
Mendoza. My pronounced in
Maine.
Handwriting is not completely
clear to me, but thank all
right. He knows who he is.
All right. And that autumn
Pickett and after that q#
#
Gorton.
Yep. PRESIDENT And members of
the Council. My name is Brian.
That and ski or key homeowner
and we
energies customer. And I want
to give you a personal account
of what happens when you try
to move to
renewable resources and
extricate yourself from we
energies monopoly. So 7 months
ago.
DECEMBER I had solar panels
professionally installed on
my roof by a licensed company.
The work was done correctly.
The panels are installed safe
and ready. And they've produced
nothing. So not one kilowatt
hour. The only thing between
me and my own. Like getting
energy from from my solar
panels is we energies approval?
Que?
I meet are sat in the same spot
for years. The moment I tried
to generate my own power,
though we energies decided that
that location wasn't acceptable
and demanded. I move it, which
triggered a new poll, a new
line, a fresh round of
approvals and the obstacle
appeared exactly when I stopped
being a pure customer and
started competing with their
sales.
I installer could do the
physical work in 3 days.
They told me the other 7 months
sits on the desk of we energies
with no deadline, no
consequences. They burned my
entire peak season and it's
given me nothing. And when they
finally pay me for my excess
power, it'll be $0.04 a
kilowatt hour. I've heard now
$0.03 It's moving down to while
they sell it to my neighbors
for 17 and or $0.18 caught out.
And not only that, but if you
know anything about the solar
panels and efficiency, the
aggravation over its time
period that 7 months that my
panels have been sitting there
up in the sunlight.
Degrading their power
efficiency. And I haven't even
yet been able to start using
it.
So this is what a monopoly with
no reason to hurry. Looks like
and chapter one. 97 is how we
take that timeline back.
Please support it. Thank you.
Good morning. My name is I
mean, I suppose just recently
moved to city Milwaukee about
a year and a half. But before
that, I was living in the city
of Los Angeles, have 9 years of
experience working for the city
of Public works. 5 of them
specifically for its
construction inspection.
But the rest of that with the
street lighting and street
tree maintenance. So I am
pretty familiar with the way
that Los Angeles Department of
Water and Power work basically
they are about 12,000 employees
in that department, which is
about 20% of the city of the
entire city employee
departments and basically their
whole model working is
basically they work everything
in-house. They have. They're
very specific tree trimmers.
There's specific maintenance
workers, equipment, operators,
equipment, maintenance
operators, steelworkers,
welders, cement finishers.
Basically everything that they
do is They're completely
responsible with what they do
and they're paid very well
because a lot of that comes
with the risk of working around
high voltage lines and just
other hazardous issues. And
also they provide a lot of
training for people who have
enough experience to get
started, but not enough to work
on their own. So.
The issue of it affecting the
employees from we energies is
basically nonexistent.
The most the most paid
employees for the city are
people who worked to the lead
up. I've had the opportunity to
work for them, but I knew that
if I did end up taking a job
with led
to bp, I probably wouldn't have
moved to moved out of that
department. Did not came up to
the city inspectors. So
basically.
The employees are pretty much
safe to be.
Working in-house and also
improve in their skills and
also bring in more people who
can share with their who can
increase their experiences.
They think, yeah, yes, they are
actually know. We work with The
m o u a Memorandum of
Understanding that. Do you have
kind of like a a group of
members who
negotiate with
the c departments. But
basically there are chances
where if the if then will, you
does not meet the standards
of what the employees are.
Employee reps are asking for
their pensions. There have been
times where there have been
a strike than that has not.
That has led to
very contentious problems with
the city. So usually those gets
resolved very quickly.
Thank you, MISTER. Just to just
to clarify, we do have time to
seeing that there's multiple
locals that represent,
including ibew, local 11.
The represents thousands of
civil service workers in l a
as part of their department
what was the name of it.
Again, the Department of Water
and Power. Yeah, okay. Yes,
they're there and they're all
there are. There are union
locals that represent the
multiple see department.
Thank you for the correction
Lent. You can thank you.
They all names. Adam, take it.
I and one of the other co
chairs of the essay. Also,
So click raise of hands.
If you are a dsa member in this
room. Take a look around.
Thank you. Thank you all for
showing out the real issue here
that I think it's kind of
fundamental is democracy has
eroded across this country.
We feel it in our everyday
life. And we're talking about
a public, you know, in this
position here, it's just proven
across the board that you get
lower rates, you get a matter
of time. We're actually able to
take care of our workers right?
And so why aren't we doing
this? You know why? Why has
this not happened? We have
15,000 people have signed on to
petitions across the city
and and then another quick
check. Do we have anybody from
we energies in this room right
now? Anybody he planned to
testify? They don't believe
that they need to be in the
room with us. They can by the
politicians on their own time
that they've gone to Tara Reid
has done probably what they've
done with Kelda Roys who have
all received money from we
energies. They don't believe
they need to be here in the
room where democracy actually
happens because they don't
believe in democracy. They have
a board of directors that is
not elected with guaranteed
profits right? So it's a
monopoly without say. And where
what like 10 days away or so
from the America's 250 per se
talk about taxation without
representation. Yeah.
So we're on on this core
principle of democracy trying
to rebuild something in this
here locally and from the
ground up across the country.
If you if you saw the news this
morning are elected in New
York, one across the board,
Democratic Socialist.
A democratic socialist are
winning across this country and
it's not just this pop-up
movement. It's because people
realize that something
fundamentally has to change.
We're feeling in our bones and
organizing it day to day.
The Petro dollar
is dying. Climate refugees are
happening. We've talked about,
you know, folks from us from La
having to move out in the midst
of fires started by other, you
know, a
utility companies. And and
meanwhile, we energies is
building more natural gas
plants.
They have 2 more on the slate
right now. And they're trying
to have us pay for for their
increased rates with the data
centers. And so we have a
limited amount of of direct
oversight that we can get with
the psc. But ultimately we need
to take it back. We need to
rebuild democracy in this
country. And this is how we
start today. Thank you.
Once again, everybody. There's
no requirement that you use all
2 minutes. We're trying to get
everybody in by noon. And
that's 40 minutes from now.
So all right, hello. Good
morning. I'm Quinn and I ms of
the student and member of tsa
and why tsa tsa's youth wing.
Well that her son I live off
campus not too far from here.
I rode my bike here this
morning in JANUARY, as I'm sure
you all remember Milwaukee face
an Arctic blast. The drop temps
down to minimum of negative
13 degrees negative. 42 with
wind chill. This blast was so
bad that Ms Louise campus shut
down for several days. If you
know msa we that doesn't happen
very often. I remain. I bundle
mostly stuck to our ce our
rooms on the second floor.
Heat rises after all. Still to
come, the first at around 68
degrees electric bill for that
month was $350.
I sought surely that can't be
right. I was concerned. My
roommate was running a server
in their bedroom or something.
There are computer They do
stuff like that. But I asked
then I emailed we energies
thinking that there was a meter
issue and the support Tech said
that there was no way that
could be the Ears are remotely
reported. That can be a
problem. They offered to send
me a energy efficiency kit and
I said sure sounds great.
In the kit were to led light
bulbs, smart, plug some window
film we energies branded night
How was a night late? Supposed
to help me with my high
heating bills and we have faced
extravagant heating bills and
I'm sure everyone in this room
hats. And what is we energies
doing with that money? Pride in
our elected officials
apparently according to
Milwaukee Courier, Lieutenant
Governor and governor candidate
Sarah Rodriguez was one of 4
Democrats to vote yes on a b
one. 91 a bill to repeal
personal property taxes.
That was later blocked by
Governor Evers in part because
it could exempt utility
companies for millions of
dollars in taxes on their
infrastructure. After the vote,
Rodriguez received a donation
of almost $1300. No thoughts
are not searching $113,000 from
wc energy use wc reported
income of over 8 billion
dollars last year and currently
pays their executives over
32 million dollars. Total
wrapped-up can do
as a great pain says. And I
urge the Common Council to
replace them with a public
utility that operates for the
good of the people, not for
profits. Thank you.
Except he's a representative.
Ryan Clancy following him is
Tim Schaeffer from Ed Gary and
Medicines Office and following
that is Brian's of Paris.
Bryson cares.
Coming up, right? Yeah.
I'm Ryan Clancy, representative
to Wisconsin's 19th Assembly
district. I'm here to call for
a publicly own democratically
run utility in Milwaukee and an
ends to we energies and I am
beyond grateful to see so many
people show up in favor of
this. Today. I was looking
through my pictures this
morning and I found one of my
then 7 year-old and I surveying
our neighbors back in 2021.
For the power of the people
campaign. A lot has changed.
Since then. My child is now
12 years old. They're in a
different school. They have a
much different fashion sense
than they did several years ago
of a lot is not. They're still
in favor of public power are
both very excited to see public
power gain traction with this
hearing here today. The
clipboard they were holding in
that picture 5 years ago noted
that the person that we talked
to had a, quote, very negative
view of we energies that is
certainly not changed in the
last half decade because we
energies is built to fail.
The people of Milwaukee we can
be for Mitt be could force it
to do its job a little bit
better. That is still an
investor owned utility design
not to deliver power to the
people that profits to
investors.
Investor owned utilities, have
a built-in profit motive and
are driven to maximize profits
for their shareholders over
affordability. Sustainability
and the actual urgent needs
of people.
That makes them as bad as any
monopolistic corporation.
But even worse, they do have
a guaranteed nearly 10% rate of
return on what they billed.
That's why they want more data
centers, more giant gas plants
to power them. That's why
they'll never invest in their
own. Infants instructor to
increase up time and keep many
neighborhoods from having
constant power outages. That's
why they'll never make
decisions that prioritize the
environment over dollars.
The profit motive is why they
don't care if the decisions
they make are in our long-term
interest. That's what every few
years they push for.
Disproportionate increases to
residential rates. Because
right now you and me and every
other we energies customer pays
for their perpetual expansion
and inefficiency, whether it's
needed or not, the public
ownership would replace the
pursuit of profits. But
Democratic oversight and
liability and affordability.
This isn't hypothetical.
81 municipalities, Ms Constand
already used this model to see
lower bills and enjoy better
more reliable service. We have
the tools to do this. We know
how it works and we know what
works in places with even fewer
resources than here in
Milwaukee. And the good news is
this we energies does not have
the legal power to stay a
damaging private entity
forever. Chapter one 97 in
existing Wisconsin state law
allows the municipality to buy
and operate their local
utilities. We just need the
courage and action from people
with the power to do it.
That's all of you. For our part
of the state. We're committed
to codifying the end of Act 10
in ensuring that a public
utility. And employee.
An employee and fairly
compensate public union
employees. That could certainly
happen after the creation of a
co-op or 3rd party entity.
I'm a Democratic socialist.
The way know that at least some
people in this room aren't
public ownership and control
of public goods is core to
socialism, but also court to
Milwaukee's history. And it's
like Democratic socialism is an
increasingly popular and
powerful alternative to the
obvious failures of the status
quo. Like we energies. I
welcome you to be our ally on
this critical and clearly
popular issue.
I ask you to listen to the
overwhelming testimony in favor
of the public utility today.
And to give honest
consideration to this practical
and efficient idea, I'm very
happy to stand with the
Milwaukee dsa. They're
dedicated organizers for power
to the people and everyone else
stepping up for public power
today. Thank you.
Thanks for Plan, My name is
Tim Schafer. I'm the director
of communications and
constituent services for
Representative Darren Madison.
Intense Assembly district,
including parts of Milwaukee
already suffering under study
increasingly high energy costs
often on affordably high energy
costs and unreliable service.
I'm excited and honored to
share this testimony on behalf
of Representative Madison.
Milwaukee in the entire state
of Wisconsin are facing a clear
present and mounting energy
crisis. Many of my constituents
are severe the energy burden,
which means they're paying at
least 10% but up to 20% and
even more of their income for
utilities alone with many
others, forces survive on low
or utility usage because they
cannot afford to safely
comfortably heat or cool their
homes even worse. Their
constituents of mine that have
that had their energy shut off
entirely and some of experience
long and frequent blackouts
gonna neighborhoods through no
fault of their own. Meanwhile,
we energies refuses to
transition to renewable clean
energy at the pace and scale
our climate crisis demands.
This is deepening our energy
crisis and entrenching our
commitment to dirty energy
sources. None of my
constituents or yours can
afford to lose the environment
where they work live and play.
And these are the stakes were
talking about today.
So let me be very clear.
Every resident of Milwaukee
deserves guaranteed access to a
democratically controlled,
affordable, reliable and clean
energy system. But as a
for-profit investor owned
utility, we energies is
incompatible with that vision.
We energies has failed to
deliver on its promises of
clean, affordable energy and it
will continue to fail to get
his son. It is simply not built
to meet. Those needs. It is
instead an undemocratic
monopoly, a for-profit model
that still incentivizes mass
scale, fossil fuel, energy
generation and distribution, as
others have noted it currently
provides only 6% of its energy
from renewables while charging
rates that are 30 to 40% more
than you to utilities already
working for Wisconsin. Public
utilities already working for
Wisconsin. So while we energies
gets in almost 10% profit
guarantee and most of its new
infrastructure, as others have
noted to its shareholders, sole
benefit. The residents of
Milwaukee are left paying the
financial health and
environmental costs and we'll
be paying for outdated dirty
new of new fossil fuel
infrastructure for decades with
that cost felt for centuries.
Energy system does not have
to work this way. 81
municipalities all across
Wisconsin already have public
power and that already leads to
cheaper energy rates and more
reliable service.
The I hope these public power
utilities right now provide
11% of Wisconsin energy
powering over 300,000 homes
and businesses. Milwaukee can
prioritize our workers,
community and environment over
corporate profits by embracing
public power. And I look
forward to working with the
city of Milwaukee to make this
idea a reality. Thank you all.
And the next group of
Cleopatra, White and Olivia
McDowell.
Thank you so much. Members of
the review board as well as
everyone else for being here
today. My name is Bree Second.
Rice. I media say member and
the secretary of the power to
the people campaign.
I'm a teacher and most
importantly, I am also
concerned resident of this
community.
One thing that's been rolling
around in my head as we've been
hearing a lot of really
wonderful, both professional
and public testimony about why
chapter one 97 needs to be used
to replace we energies with a
public utility. It's been a
quote from one of our most
prominent public figures in the
city's history, which is Mayor
Daniel Home. When faced with
the Great Depression, the stock
market failing people losing
jobs, businesses going simply
under. Daniel Haun issued one
main quote That's been sticking
with me and I think is more
pertinent today than ever has
been. It's that businesses MAY
quit your government can't.
With that. I'm here to tell
you that business has already
quit. And that is we energies
and the people who make
decisions for we energies
because they have quit caring
about the people of Milwaukee.
I don't need to go to further
into the profit motive of the
9.8% minimum guaranteed profit
for this company. But I do want
to incentivize that 9.8% of
your bill. My bill help our
bills is guaranteed to not go
to infrastructure improvements.
It's guaranteed to not go to
renewable energy programs and
it is guaranteed not to go to
the workers that are actually
out there and doing all of
these line improvements or
keeping the lights on because
that 9.8% is guaranteed.
And this is a minimum guarantee
is guaranteed to line the
pockets of some board room that
is not even caring about us in
this room.
They don't see you me or any of
us as anything other than a
simply account number, kept it
up right there for I am simply
asking that we use Chapter one.
97 once again. Thank you for
your time. And it is time for
we energies to go.
Hello. My name is Cleopatra.
Light. I'm just a regular
middle-class home owner of the
Milwaukee resident representing
the Southgate site. I am here
to just show my full support to
a new energy infrastructure.
Its power community support
accountability and profits to
be approved and manage by the
people. I believe this is not a
political party request for
movement. It's simply humanity.
Every family and taxpayer
deserves the right to have
options. The control of the
utilities and to be and to put
the best interests savings
programs, all infrastructure to
the people over and said of the
annual increase guarantee
profits of we energies,
investors. I live on a block
where street lights are almost
out on a daily. I have been in
my neighborhood now for 6 years
and I've seen and felt the
financial squeeze and pressure
burden as well as I'm sure
everyone else he has. I am just
a working class. Single mother
and with trying to juggle all
my monthly expenses, I
shouldn't have to choose
between putting putting food on
the table for my family are
keeping the lights on. It's
becoming more and more of a
financial burden. So at this
point, this is needed in the
city of Milwaukee. And this is
needed to be ran by the public.
Thank you.
Hello. My name is Lydia
McDowell and I am a resident
of Milwaukee's East side.
I have lived here now for 6
years and I adore the city of
Milwaukee. And that is exactly
why I'm here today.
So it was referenced earlier.
But when we faced serious cold
fronts this past JANUARY, my
home, which I do not own I
rent, I don't have control over
the insulation got so cold that
my damp laundry froze to the
floor.
I had to pry it off of my
floor. And when a call we
energies about the astronomical
bill. I got shortly after
losing my job.
Their solution is well put some
cling wrap over your windows
I need a system that protects
me my own. And that cares for
my community. I
am calling for transparency
and prices because I am tired
of paying over what led what
money my husband and I can
scrounge together every month
towards a corporation that does
not care for me and has
multiple times in my life
turned off my lights.
I am just ready for better
representation from the
government. And I call on you
to do your job and to be
pulled.
A kbo Leon.
And after that is Katie.
Kate Ward. And then after that
is.
Lou Pelican. We've got that
correct. Okay.
High winds are coming on and
the student, the un and also
the co-chair of the Young
Democrats of America at you.
Do you know?
I mean, I've lived in college
housing and apartments et have.
Not a good insulation and of
all set to be the one there
who has their name down for the
We energies account and
monthly. It was not fun to get
that in I think that's it for
so many of
my peers who are struggling who
have to worry about being able
to pay loans after they get
out school. I think it's
disgusting for we energies to
profit off of us as we're just
trying to further our lives
and improve ourselves and our
future prospects. I also think
that coming from the young
generation who is going to have
to face the effects of the
climate crisis in full that we
need to move to renewable
energy and we energies is not
going to do that for us.
They have their goal set for
2050, which is much too late.
We need to move now. So that's
a people of my generation have.
Holmes comfortable home
Sullivan in the future. Thank
you very much. Thank you.
I excuse me. My name is Kate
Allard. I used to live in
Madison and I moved here about
3 years ago.
After moving here, I found the
wages were much lower. Yet the
rent is higher. Prices are
higher and my energy bill is
going up every year. My energy
bill is already uncomfortably
high. And I think most
Milwaukee residents agree that
we don't need higher utility
bills. 12 shareholder strip,
our natural resources and line
their pockets. We energies is
known for making the wrong
decisions in our community and
then has us pay for their
failures. It should be our
right to choose what our
utility spend our money on.
I strongly urge you to fight
for a public utility in
Milwaukee. Don't that we
energies leave us in the dark.
Find the courage to do it.
Hi, my name is blue public and
I am a dsa member and volunteer
with Alex Powers Office as well
currently laid off electrician.
I want to talk to you about.
What our money is actually
going towards because right now
we energies ceo on his own is
making over 11 million dollars.
Meanwhile. There are multiple
neighborhoods within this city
that experience regular
blackouts, especially during
storms. We have no
infrastructure that can
withstand a basic need Western
storm in very many different
neighborhoods. The fact that
their ceo is making that much
money, but they can't invest
the money to make sure that
our people have stable strong,
reliable service. It's a
travesty. And we all know at
least. Me and my comrades, I
know that the reason for that,
it's because it is based on a
profit. Motive is a for-profit
organization managing our
utilities.
You can you can't have. Sorry.
I got tripped up there a little
bit. You can't have a profit
motive.
Company that also working for
the actual interest of the
people because that's they're
just not compatible. We need to
take control of our public
utilities and not just power,
water, Internet sewer systems,
trash, all of that. This is
just the first step. It's white
or g today that.
Was bill, the organization that
actually works on our
infrastructure and actually
built a system that works.
Next up is.
Was that an ok after that would
be Jason?
And after that would be Sarah.
Darling. That possible k.
Of Sarah rolling.
Is Ophelia Lehman.
25. 0, 5 North Frederick.
We get no requirement that you
use 2 minutes. We're trying to
get everybody accommodated
there.
Hello. Hello. My name is
Ophelia. I'm a student at the
university, Wisconsin,
Milwaukee and also a proud
member of the youth wing of the
Milwaukee Democratic Socialism.
Erica, clapping out required
I wanted to talk a little bit
more about the student impacts
of we energies, but not over
over the power in the city.
Waukee
the enrollment rates at Uwm
are continuously and currently
and more importantly and more
rapidly. The rates of black and
brown enrollment are putting
as well. Uwm is an important,
very important pillar of the
Milwaukee community.
That's where we get, you know,
a lot of our party just for
MPs, for instance, or
our doctors or many other jobs
that you see in the city of
Milwaukee walking needs uw
Milwaukee and you have needs
Milwaukee with the increasing.
Greatly increasing. We energy
power bills and increasing over
the years. And as I experienced
while working on the part of
people campaign
have a lot of students out of
going to uw Milwaukee, which
is supposed to be one of the
more affordable schools in the
in the system
contributing to this, you know,
greatly greatly decreasing
enrollment rate and I think now
more
than ever, it's what has the
time to Institute of Public
Utility to lower those rates
for not just to give students
citizens all across the city
of Milwaukee as
no fight to live affordably
that's not even to mention the
climate crisis that we energies
is not taking appropriate
action to thank you out.
Hello, I'm Sarah Darling.
I am here we energies
customers, single mother and
community advocate and someone
who aspires to live in
Milwaukee. The reason why it
can't just because a high rent,
which is a whole other
discussion. But I'd want to
just say that I'm very thankful
to you for having this
discussion and considering this
because it's really very
important and long overdue.
I'm also happy to see your
continued commitment to safety
and protection for your
community. The first time I
spoke here was in 2015 about
the oil trains with you yet.
So keeper move in. I just want
to say a few things. I think
it's 2 plus 2 equals 4. That
the only reason why renewable
energy isn't further advanced
is because simply oil and gas
and utility companies don't
want it.
I work with a woman from 3rd
act. Wisconsin. Who does solar
tours of her home in Madison.
And she said that one summer
and JULY her utility bill was
-13 dollars. So your community
solar programs, public power
programs, they do rooftop
solar. It does work. The
utility companies just simply
don't want that because it
doesn't align with their profit
driven incentives. So now that
we have that out of the way,
I've also spoken at recent psc
hearings about we energies rate
increase cases. It's very easy.
If you just want to do the math
over what you've been paying
your bills over the last few
years, they have done 3 rate
increases in 3 years in a row.
And then you look at the
profits of we energies and
their executives in tandem.
And you can see. That. You
know, do the math and it's just
obvious that they are looking
out for us and that they really
don't care about powering our
world shutting off people's
powers, inhumane.
And I have yes, thank you.
And I've I've helped to
support. The energy burden
movement here. I want to thank
Brian with the Web. If you
notice my fantastic with no
look here, they're doing really
wonderful work. I are. And I
urge all of you to continue
supporting them. And please,
let's do the right thing.
Keep this moving. Okay.
Under a hail after that.
Allison. Talk with police.
And after that, Ian Huntley.
All right, everybody. My name
is Andre hail of I am or was
one of the lead canvassers
leads of the field organizers
for the power to the people
campaign. I've let a ton of the
canvas is a lot of people in
this room have come to a canvas
that I have led. And I really
appreciate all the work and
support the development doing
for this campaign. Now I am
the communications officer for
Milwaukee dsa.
And of but I kind of want to
talk about of before all of
that. I moved here with my wife
and my son like 3 years ago.
And one of the things we first
noticed was how high the bills
where? And in Arkansas where
I'm from, we had everything.
Bundle together, sewer, water,
electricity, internet, all of
that together.
And that cost me about $1000 a
month for we energies alone.
My bill that usually comes out
to about 1000 or 1100 a month.
So and that's just for my my
tiny little house in
Greenfield. So like this
campaign is one of the first
things that I latched on to
immediately when moving here.
And I just want to say that the
the ability to get this done
is there. We have
legal work all outlined with
Chapter one. 97.
There's a huge amount of people
here who support this campaign
and of them. Honestly, we just
need the will power to do it.
Similarly to in New York City
with Dani. He was able to pass
of free childcare for 2
year-olds as well as completely
balance the budget without
raising any property taxes or
digging into any rainy day
funds. The money is there.
The model is there for how to
do this. We just have to have
the will power to do it.
And I just want to say the
people United will never be
defeated. Let's do this.
Well, listen, I was.
Good morning or good afternoon.
My name's housing. Hope that
I'm an organizer.
I was an organizer with the aft
local 2 to 3 Madison.
Coal unions. Now I'm I'm back
to Milwaukee. I'm a educator
in Milwaukee.
Public schools and a member of
mta. Now that I am eligible
so gay unions, but I'm here
as an educator, many years of
experience in an advanced
degree in leadership. Just to
remind everybody about the
importance of like buying and
stakeholder relations and that
to some this might seem like
this is a harebrained idea.
Like what are these like crazy
kids and their socialism
but this is a good idea that
the future is now like the
climate crisis is already
happening right now. We have
refugees from the West Coast in
the East Coast coming to fresh
water, Great Lakes regions for
a reason. And we should protect
that. So from my perspective as
it from the perspective, like
strategic thinking and like
systems thinking.
Think about it like it's it
makes sense. It's not. It's
not crazy. It's logical and
it's needed. And it's the right
thing to do. So follow
your hearts. But think about
like why this is a good idea
because it really, truly is
many is in doubt Resident of
the River, West neighborhood
and an officer with walking tsa
labor working group. And today
as PRESIDENT Of my Union
speaking on behalf of the
American Federation of State
County and Municipal Employees,
local 47. We represent the city
of Milwaukee workers in the
departments of Neighborhood
Services, City Development,
the assessor's office and the
Milwaukee Water works or
publicly owned water utility
work. I work as an electrical
engineer.
Last month or union membership.
After have d#
#
consideration
decided unanimously to endorse
a part of the people campaign.
Our members want a public
energy utility because as
public utility workers, we
carry our love for the city
every day and are more than
capable of handling the task
competently efficiently
sustainably and reliably.
I want to highlight that there
was a time when the labor
movement stood united for
what's best in our city.
They formed a political
movement that we now know of a
summer social us the sewer
socialist turned our government
into a leading powerful
operation that deeply
considered the wait of every
single tax dollar to get the
most for our residents, the
transformational change that
they made for city seen in our
parks and infrastructure.
That infrastructure MAY be in a
rough state today due to the
new liberal and Republican
cutbacks. But the fact that it
has lasted over 100 years as a
testament to the ambition of
their vision for Milwaukee.
We can and I believe we will
rise again to make that happen
so that every person prospers,
including Oliver ibew, Union
siblings, we deserve addressed
and trans equitable transition
to keep all they fought for in
their contracts and more
including the status in the
union. That is possible because
as a democracy, we can make it
happen. We want what's best for
all workers and not one step
back. And I reclaimed the word
we from we energies because it
will take all of us to stand up
against this injustice. We need
every person viewing this to
talk to your coworkers about
forming or joining a union user
labor power to stand up for
what's right and our politics
and our economy. That is where
our people's power truly fights
and wins. Thank you, Soledad.
Adam Otis.
Excellent. And after that, Joel
Cole, I believe.
24 East Chambers. And after
and a slur.
Hi, my name is Rita Manteo to
some a Milwaukee resident and
also I'm with the great
Milwaukee Green Party, which is
a coalition partner on the
power to the people campaign.
And we've helped gather the
petitions, the thousands of
petitions that have been
delivered to the Common
Council. And I'm so excited
that this is happening today.
I wanted to say that one of our
late members, Bruce Hank, for
us lived in a column a walk
which has a public utility.
And I they are members of wpp.
I which buys eu which buys
power through competitive
pricing and his wife, Karen,
who was an engineer. She's a
retired engineer from we
energies. She said that
Oconomowoc gets better rates.
Then residents of the city of
Milwaukee. Just being part of
that public utility
collaborative. Also, I wanted
to say that when I woke up this
morning and turn on the radio,
wtmj was laughing about this
very hearing making jokes about
how silly this is and how is
never work. It's just going to
be too expensive. They didn't
mention that. You know, when
they're rolling blackouts in
California. Guess what? City
didn't have any problem.
La because they had a public
utility. So there are 2200
public utilities in communities
around this country. And I hope
the Milwaukee be will be next.
Thank you.
Let everyone on this board.
My name is Joe Cole and I live
here in Milwaukee, climate
activists and artists. The site
is to be public. Utilities were
invented in this country nearly
150 years ago to bring reliable
affordable services to the
people in their community.
A key provision was to prevent
price gouging.
At its best public powers, not
for profit at its best. It's
local people working together
to meet local needs. We are
not at her best with we
energies. They have shown that
they're motivated by profit,
not by their customers and
certainly not their customers,
financial health or physical
health. And that is because
they are for profit motivated
by creating share value for
the shareholders. They are no
longer the public utility.
They were founded as in 18 96.
People across the city are
struggling. Everything is more
expensive. This is a big
opportunity to bring some
needed relief to everyone.
Hello, my name is Amanda
Eisler. I bought a duplex in
Riverwest 8 years ago. And at
that time I could afford all of
my bills on my own without a
tenant.
I live in one unit and rent the
other as a landlord, I'm now
forced to raise the rent
substantially to be able to
cover all my bills. I cannot
afford my bills anymore.
Otherwise. Reason being is when
I moved in 8 years ago, my we
energies Bill was to 202 to
50 per month and water was $30
a month. Now we energies is
over $400 a month and water
is $100 a month. I've concern
I've confirmed multiple times
with we energies that my usage
is accurate with inspections.
If I'm in the middle class
struggling, I can't imagine how
much lower classes are
struggling, especially
disenfranchised communities.
Thank you so much.
After David. It'll be Jim
Harris. And after that time has
David MAY have left.
Good afternoon, I think is is
about what time is it? Take
this, which we energy back to
Wisconsin electorate.
We need to cheat kids in high
school to take over energy
efficiency of Wisconsin.
Number one. This is a park
crime. It like Alaska and can
which we energy overlooked by
Perry being Pirates put energy.
They took away 2 bills that was
separate and putting together
to make more and with a look of
suffering for your energy use
to be able to peek, believe
your lights on or he hate took
that away. We have been
practicing on climate areas
that need substantial energy
and prey on. There should be
all that we issue should be
owned by the public. Okay.
We should have more. Then one
in efficiency provider. For
backup. And also. There should
be a task to look into research
by this been a cold climate.
They each home
should have a generator by this
climate being as it is because
if d#
#
we energies shes now,
how many people are being
counted? This becoming sick
or die from these issues here
in Wisconsin and Alaska.
They pay all the residents of
$1000 to 2000. I was just
because they respect that they
have economy is trying to grow
in a cold climate. We have a
let pirates come here
and take elders home where
their utilities are way higher
due to a home know this should
not be no way in the world.
The utility said because suit
thousands of dollars over the
winter time and looking for it
to happen. Air preseason.
No. And this give out credit
for the energy
is hogwash bars with energy
assistance now it's only want
pay all for the winter. That's
hogwash. We have to get our own
energy facility to facility
Ys back in control, where we
teach kids about this crime.
A Tory up north in life where
we don't have
predator people. Kami from down
south to the West Classic.
Thank you.
Sheskey. I believe after that,
Tyler.
Koeppen Coachman. And after
that, she was Sanchez.
My name is Tom. Hans Berger, a
proud resident of Milwaukee
live down in Bay View and also
a proud member of the Milwaukee
Democratic Socialists of
America. And I have the
privilege to serve the essay.
As an organizer working with
many chapters across the
Midwest to expand on Zohran
Mamdani is movement.
And one thing I wanted to add
here. In addition to everything
else that's been said is the
context in this moment across
the country. We're seeing new
technology developing around ai
electric cars. We're seeing
data storage flock cameras,
all of these new technologies,
the way that they're being
implemented are currently being
used to automate workers, jobs
leading to mass layoffs.
They're being used to collect
surveillance data on poor
communities and marginalized
communities. They are being
used to profit and against the
interests of ordinary citizens
of ordinary working people.
What this proposal would do to
invoke charter one 97 and to
replace we energies with a
public utility is to give you
all the power to push back on
those bad incentives. What it
does is it gives us the ability
as the people of Milwaukee to
govern ourselves and to prevent
a lot of those incentives,
which are also contributing to
democratic backsliding that
we've seen with the current
authoritarian movement in
Washington, D.C. So it's very
important for the people of
Milwaukee and for our ability
to govern ourselves that we
make sure these new
technologies are implemented
for the people, not for profit
and to protect our democracy.
Thank you. Think.
My name is more. My name is
Tyler Coachman. I am a
Wisconsin part and Wisconsin
bar licensed for practice as an
attorney and I'm a resident of
the Kilbourn town neighborhood
of Milwaukee. And a member of
the Milwaukee County Young
Democrats. The group which
supports the power to the
people campaign. And I'm
speaking today in my personal
capacity.
As an individual as a pre few
speaker noted while many here
today are members. There are
also individuals here to
support this who are not
socialists.
I would like to lend myself as
a face to that claim. I'm not a
socialist and I stand shoulder
to shoulder in support of this
reform.
Making our power a public
utility. Me is a reform well in
line with the greatest utility
reforms that were championed by
20th century progressives, that
is that progressive era, which
Wisconsin most boldly lived up
to its great state's motto
forward. It's time for
Milwaukee to reclaim our city's
tradition as a national leader
in resident first policy,
public control over utility
provides a vehicle for
government and our citizens
to address many of the local
quality of life issues impacted
by air power utility. I urge
all there is one the finalized
version of this appears for of
up before you deferred to the
people, allow us our vote in a
referendum requisite to enable
the U.S. Trust us. We the
people of Milwaukee.
If you have an individual on
the big board met for Sheskey,
we didn't forget you. You've
been patiently waiting for the
better part of the whole
meeting. So at the floor is
yours.
It yourself.
We'll get back to Matt. Let's
go on to issue it. She was
tensions. Yeah, I think you
saw I'm sure the Sanchez I live
in Walker's point and I am a
member of Milwaukee dsa.
I want to talk about energy
sources. So we all know that
fossil fuels poison the water
in the air. A study from last
year says that burning fossil
fuels leads to 91,000
additional premature deaths in
the U.S. Every year over
200,000 additional cases of
childhood asthma every year
in the country. There's one
study that says actually
multiple studies that say that
burning coal releases 100 times
more radioactivity, then
nuclear power plants because
you're digging radioactive
material out of the earth and
then you just throw it into the
air in the water. You don't,
you know, contain it. And
that's not to mention the that
catastrophic impacts of climate
change caused by greenhouse
gases from burning fossil
fuels. So thankfully, in the
past few decades, there's been
really enormous advances in
clean energy technology.
In 2011 for the first time new
wind farms were cheaper to
construct the new coal-fired
power plants in 2013 new solar
plants were cheaper than coal
in 2016. Both became cheaper
natural gas plants. So we have
the technology. We've had it
for more than a decade now to
switch to clean energy. But
private energy companies have
not been pursuing this at the
rate that they they should be.
So if we look at we energies
in 2011, we energies announced
a 30 year extension to creek.
Coal fired plants. It was
already clear in 2011. That
call was not going to be an
economically viable energy
source for 30 years. But they
spent that money keeping cool
running in Twenty-twenty.
They announced they would start
shutting down some of their
coal-fired plants. But they
have done several lifetime
extensions on their plans.
So, you know, they they've
pushed back the shutdown date
from 2024. To 2025. 2026.
Now they're saying 2027.
We'll see. They're now is
they've announced that 2032,
they're going to completely end
using coal. We'll see if they
commit to that 2025, they
announced that they're building
a 1.5 billion dollar new
natural gas plants.
When they could have been
spending that money on solar
and on wind. And, you know, the
biggest motivator for these
fossil fuel plants is that they
get to charge us the rate
payers for the construction
costs and they get guaranteed
profits from that. So the more
money they spend on fossil fuel
plants, the more money they
make right. So the alternative
is solar and we energies,
regrettably, they've been
fighting solar. Every chance
that they get, it's more than a
decade now that they've been
fighting residential solar
rooftop, solar where the panels
are paid for by people who live
on the panel's regular people.
But they are, you know, we
energies is trying to block
that energy getting back on
the grid. I think we had a
previous speaker mentioned
that.
Right? I was it. They're
they're paying you $0.03
I have my house for 7 months
that I'm not yeah to use that
right. So its 3 sense that the
individual customer would be
paid for that solar energy and
then they charge $0.17 to give
it to someone else. Right?
The 2019 we energies fought the
city and trying to put a few
solar panels up on libraries.
Right? So they've been fighting
solar for over a decade.
If we had a publicly owned
power utility with 0 profit
motive, then you know, we
wouldn't be worried about how
much money we can make on
building new fossil fuel
plants. We be building as much
solar and wind as we could.
And, you know, we would be able
to do what cities all over the
world are doing right now,
which is putting solar panels
on top of homes on top of
warehouses on top of factories,
on city buildings and over
parking. Lots. And we would
finally be able to generate
clean energy for the people of
Milwaukee. So I encourage you
to support this this report.
Thank you.
One more call out the map.
The Mets available. This is
your shot. O Co, right, Matt,
you're on.
But man, if you're speaking,
we're not able to hear you
right now.
Michael looks on.
And you and your audio and Mike
shedding light. That the
properly. Assessed.
On the right hand corner.
Well, in a select the right.
Okay. We're sorry, Matt, we've
got to move on to the next and
last speaker. Sam Michael.
Hi, thank you very much.
I am a teacher and a member of
the dsa.
Now given that we've had
unanimous agreements, pretty
much unanimous agreement on
the We energies. If there's
any semblance of democracy
left, then the Common Council
will do the right thing.
I hope they do. But one thing I
want to talk about is I want to
make sure that I would like to
ask the Common Council to add
a provision to ensure that
private corporations like we
energies cannot
crawl back after this. We
energies is public. So, for
example, if by the Common
Council buys out, we energies,
I want to make sure that
another corporation isn't
sprawl long and screw over
workers and destroy the
environment and everything like
that. So that's one thing that
I want. That's just one concern
that I have. I think that this
measure should definitely pass
and we should look at other
ways that we can actually make
the stronger and make sure that
these corporations don't find a
way to score over everyone.
So I'll just end with that
little piece of advice. Thank
you, Sam.
Morning. Any closing comments
by any members of the panel up
here all the way to Ridge.
Thank you. I'm not on the
panel, Alderwoman Marina
Demetria that I see a lot of
friendly faces and neighbors
from a district just want to
make sure. I said hello and let
you know that we're listening.
We hear you again. I'm on the
panel, but wanted to listen to
your testimony and it was quite
powerful. So thank you. We love
having you at City Hall.
This is the People's House.
So thank you for being here
and your testimony noted.
Thank you.
Include by saying this has been
very informative, public
hearing your witness testimony
was very concise, a very
moving, very persuasive.
I appreciate you all being very
organizes sticking more to the
time. And I just want the
record to reflect that. The
Allman Brower head of suggest a
schedule that we would end at
12:00:08pm, and it is now
12:00:09pm, when MR. At me as
if you are one of the worst
of all. Thank you so much.
And I want to thank the other
owners are being hurt.
Alderwoman Taylor's on the on
the board and Alderman
Speicher. Thank you so much for
hearing everything as and the
tree of its. Thank you all and
thanks to everybody who came
out here today. You know, we
are on we're in such trying
times. And so with everything
going on and all and everybody
that helped you guys all have
either different roles in the
city are extremely demanding or
time or another units of
government. And so really
appreciate all of you taking
the time. You know, the more
than 3 hours now to hear from
the public. And here I'm here.
These experts that we brought
here today, this is the start
of what I believe will be a
serious conversation about how
we can transform the city,
right. And and we can use this
campaign and this effort as a
way to transform are part of
city government. I do want to
just note really quickly that
no, there's going to be out
there this this piece of well,
the city, I can't even insert
problem here. Why can we expect
them to, you know, operate the
power company, right? The city
can't rake might leaves.
How can we expect them to
operate the power company?
I really think that that it's a
very reductionist view of what
is possible here, but to
directly address that and I
think the PRESIDENT Should be
addressed is that is that the
city right now? We're under a
lot of constraints with funding
from the state are roads.
We don't charge user fees for
the roads. So that's not a self
funding apparatus. Liquor
waterworks is or like this
utility would be. We would
charge rates that would
maintain the infrastructure.
So there is a possibility both
to have this conundrum that
we're in with state funding
and a well operated a utility
as well. But I really
appreciate the moment here to
have us have the vision of
expanding the democracy and
the well-being of every single
person. I'm here in Milwaukee
by doing this. And frankly,
to challenge the power and
authority which we haven't done
in the in in this building
census or socialist. We're
here. You have challenged the
power and authority of one of
the worst corporate actors in
this city. One of things that
was criticized about this event
today was that we didn't have
we energies here, but this is
the start of the conversation.
I would invite we energies to
come to this committee or
public works were set up a
meeting with any of us to make
their case about why they think
they should be here and make
your case to the public.
Please. I challenge we
energies. I'm with him. But of
course, you know, they're a
company that is exercising so
much. Huber, U.S. Right now.
But I don't even think they can
step down to our level to
explain why they should still
even be our utility provider.
But I just really want to
sincerely thank everyone and
MISTER Chair. Thank you so much
for holding this hearing today.
I know it is very interesting
discussion and the question I
have now is what are the next
steps? Where does this proposal
go from here? Well, as I
mentioned at the outset, I
think the next steps would be
the formation of a a more
formalized task force involving
members of the council and
members of the administration.
Certainly Department of Public
Works comptroller's office,
perhaps. And where have you
toward putting together a
perhaps request for
qualifications for a
feasibility study, get the
proposals from qualified firms
as was indicated by first alert
earlier and then the council
would have to make the hard
choice as to how to fund that
feasibility study, which could
be in the several hundreds of
thousands of dollars. So I
think that would be the next
step.
Also MARCH air you know, the
next step, Stewart, a
continuum, people mobilize and
have conversations and agenda
be a part of the public
conversation that's going on.
I think one of these that are
still a mentor to me, but I
don't believe she got a chance
to mention today was that that
this these fights are there's
that there is a technical piece
with the revenue bonds and the
infrastructure. There's very
much a technical concern.
But the bigger concern, 90% of
the concern is the political
will. So it is also offer
thought your question we have
to build the political will to
make this happen. You're
walking. And that is that is a
there is some tech companies.
There's a I want to get on
board with the idea of a task
force or a feasibility study
be conducted. We have to the
build, the political will no
matter what the feasibility
study says we energies will
has the legal right.
Unfortunately under our
campaign finance laws when the
referendum hits the voters to
spend almost an unlimited
amount from the Treasury on the
vote. No campaign. So we have
to be well informed and
fortified as a as a public to
be able to withstand them Blatt
with every other commercial
being about why are Jews?
We energies is the greatest
thing in the history of the
when that when that when that
does happen. So I think that's
another piece of it as well as
chair. Thank you. Thank you.
All right. With that big, no