Okay, testing.
>> Testing one, two, three. Testing one,
two, three.
>> This is a test of the streaming system
and its audio capabilities.
» [snorts]
>> Hey, are we ready team so we can get
through tonight?
>> Yeah, I'm good.
>> Yeah, [laughter] just like No,
everybody's perfect today actually.
>> Yeah.
[laughter]
>> Okay. experiences though.
>> I like them as a last return [laughter]
PTSD.
>> Well, I'm sorry.
» It's all okay. It's August.
>> You know, half the municipalities in
British Columbia have stopped even
meeting, I think, for the rest of the term until after the election, at
least some of the big munis. So, really,
>> having a meeting in August seems to be
peculiar. Anyways, but here we are,
August, our one meeting of the month,
and it's a regular meeting. And I'd like
to welcome everybody and call the
meeting to order and acknowledge the
land on which we gather is the
traditional territory of the Taha, the
Silks, and the Snags people, and is home
to the Matey and many diverse Aboriginal
persons. We honor their connection to
the land and rivers and respect the
importance of the environment to our
strength as a community. I've received
no late items before the meeting. So if
I could ask for an adoption of the
agenda circulated moved by councelor
Lockenberg, seconded by councelor Payne.
All those in favor opposed and that
carries. There are no previous minutes
to adopt at this meeting. So we will go
[clears throat] right into item number
six which is some workshops educational
um session and we're going to start with
a council code of conduct and then we'll
be doing the council correspondence and
action item list. And I would like to
then ask uh Sarah to take the hot seat
at the end of the room.
[clears throat] Nope.
» Hi everybody.
>> Our communications person Stephanie.
>> Yes. This is Stephanie, our
communications coordinator, and she is
joining me to talk to you guys about the
communications during auction. So,
[clears throat] basically, I've pulled
um out of from the code of conduct
bylaw. That's your bylaw. So today um I
will pro provide a brief overview of
communication expectations during the
2026 election period for the city of
Nelson um from the council code of
conduct bylaw. Um the purpose is not to
limit legitimate communication about
city business but to ensure
um communications remain nonpartisan,
respectful, accurate and clearly
separated from election campaigning.
Um election periods create an additional
responsibilities for council members and
appointees. [clears throat]
The principles of integrity,
accountability, respect, and
transparency continue to apply. Uh our
goal is to protect public trust and
maintain a clear distinction between
municipal governance and election
activities.
Um the first point to remember is that
the code of conduct does not stop
applying during um the election.
In fact, additional communication
restrictions are layered on top of the
existing expectations. The campaign
period begins 28 days before general
voting day. So for the 2026 um local
general election, that is September 19th
through October 17th, which is general
voting day, October 17th. Um during this
period, members um and
um must be especially mindful about how
you communicate, what resources you use,
and how you separate your official role
from campaign activities.
>> Councelor Payne has a question.
>> So I guess that was my question. So
members, that that's council
>> counselors are the members that you're
referring to here.
>> Yep. uh to members, council members
appointees
>> and can you just give me an example of a
council appointee?
>> So anyone on the APC or the CDC? So the
um cultural development committee or the
housing committee or would be um
sorry what ask me that again.
>> I I'm just so a council appointee is
someone who's on a city of Nelson
committee. [clears throat]
>> Yes.
>> Okay. and the um
>> uh advisory body members.
>> So like the APC
>> um
>> library board
uh
>> so just the different committees have
different designations as far as what
their members are called.
>> Yes. So, for example, um councelor
Pinero is the council representative on
the library board,
[clears throat]
>> but I'm also just a counselor.
>> But you are a counselor.
>> Well, we've also appointed Yeah.
>> Yes. and separate people from
counselor.
>> So, we've appointed people. So, all
members of the library board covered
under the
So,
for
>> I just want to make sure I'm clear on
the definitions.
>> Okay.
>> It was the members that threw me because
I didn't see counselors or mayor or
counselor.
>> You are as council considered a member
of council. So, and this this
presentation is speaking to appointees
or members of council.
>> Okay. And it would sorry it would apply
if uh another member of the library
board who's appointed perhaps would run
for council then they have to
differentiate between if they're talking
with the library or they're talking
about the election or whatever
>> or Yes. And and just to go broader to
that is um
there is a member of the public that's
running that's on the uh that intends to
run that's on the police board and that it's even more restrictive there.
So he's had to withdraw from any um
police uh meetings.
So he can't even attend um a meeting
until after the election. So gets
elected to council, then he's off.
Doesn't get elected to council, then
that person can continue on the police
board. But right at the current time, um
uh is not um a working member of the of
the police board.
>> What about staff who decide to run for
council? They're in the same situation.
They But they so they what would they be
un under? Are they members,
[clears throat] council appointees or
>> they are this is specifically for
council.
>> Okay. So this that code of conduct
doesn't
>> So they well the code of conduct
>> no [clears throat] the code of council's
code of conduct is not applying to our
>> thank you
>> staff there they would be just like a
other member of the um
>> the candidate.
>> Yeah. that other candidate that you know
as far as you know we've certainly given
directions from our staff you also
represent the city of Nelson and you are
not to you know you as a private citizen
yes you could be advised you probably
shouldn't um but you certainly on city
time and just the perception that people
know you're a city employee so you
probably should not get involved in
someone's campaign or or you
[clears throat] know, we'd recommend not
even to actively, you know, be
campaigning for someone or promoting
someone. Just because it's hard to, you
know, separate those two hunts. It
doesn't mean you can't. As long as it's
clear you're not on city time talking to
somebody in the lunchroom or or a
citizen in the street or anything like
that, if you are strictly um on in your
off time, you can. We recommend you
don't. But um
>> I'm talking staff member running for
council.
>> If you ran then again when you're
working for the city in Nelson, you
can't be out campaigning on city time
and and just right. But [clears throat]
yes, you're [cough]
>> and our policy is and our policy would
be they they would have to if they were
elected, they'd have to
>> Yeah. Why resign? I don't know. Having
an employee and a counselor.
>> Yeah. I'm not sure.
>> No, you cannot. You have to you have to
take a leave of absence
>> to run and then
>> oh to run
>> to run.
>> Okay.
>> And then a leave of absence to you can
you make
>> it would be in the contract.
>> Yeah. Unionized contracts have to
>> allowances for that
>> leave of absences.
So yeah, so the code of conduct.
>> So that must [clears throat]
>> as for council and appointees uh staff
have their own you know they have their
own sort of code of staff code of
conduct that they adhere to.
>> Thanks.
>> Okay, we got that mostly clear.
Okay. So, um the most important concept
in the entire presentation that I'm
giving is understanding the difference
between city business and campaign
activity.
[clears throat]
Um so, city business includes municipal
services, programs, policies,
operations, and official council
decisions. Uh communications about
legitimate city business can continue.
uh campaign activity is different and
you would refer to LEFA. So that is the
act that you would refer to to make sure
that what you're doing is is legitimate.
Um campaign activity is different. It
includes election related promotion,
fundraising, endorsements, candidate
support or communications intended to
influence voting. The practical test is
simple. If city resources are being
used, ask whether the activity is
genuinely municipal business or whether
it benefits a campaign.
Members should avoid using city staff,
facilities, equipment, technology, and
email systems.
Other city funded resources for election
purposes unless those same resources are
equally available to all candidates.
>> I I guess [clears throat] we would ask
that, you know, particular through this
time. If there's things that you want
from, you know, questions you
legitimately have for the work we're
doing, then run them through myself or
Sarah and don't go directly to staff
and, you know, put them in that
uncomfortable situation of trying to
navigate what Sarah just said.
[clears throat]
» So, who speaks for the city? Um, role
clarity becomes especially important
during election season. Under
[clears throat] the code, the mayor is
the designated, this is exactly what
you're talking about, I think, is the
designated spokesperson for the city.
Um, formal media and public inquiries
regarding city business should generally
be directed through the mayor or Kevin.
Um, individual members are still
entitled to express personal opinions.
Um when doing so you must clearly
indicate that you are speaking in a
personal capacity um and not on behalf
of the city. Accuracy is also critical
um before speaking publicly about city
matters. You should ensure information
is complete, accurate, and not
misleading. And that's why it's so
important, one of the reasons why it's
so important for you to either speak
with the mayor or Kevin first and then
it runs through Stephanie. and
[clears throat] Stephanie will
verify, confirm, make sure it's
accurate.
>> Connect the media inquiry with the
either the subject matter expert or the
person who can best speak to the
specific issue um or direct back to to
the CEO or the mayor.
>> And can you give us an example?
Um
well I mean this morning uh someone from
CBC reached out wanting to schedule an
interview for tomorrow morning um to
discuss something that's coming up
tonight at the table and
which was the right thing to do. He
emailed me directly. Um, and then I set
up a meeting. Um, but I know that,
you know, we all the longer you do this
job, the more kind of personal
connections and communication you have
uh, with people and so they do try to
circumvent the um, official channels.
That reporter also uh, texted the mayor
[laughter and clears throat]
just because I was in a meeting and
didn't get back to him right away. So,
that's an example of, you know, if they
do reach out to you directly, which I
know sometimes they do, and we have the
forum on the website, um, you can always
direct them back to me and then I can
officially direct them to the person
that they would need to be speaking to.
>> Yeah, I get that part. I'm just trying
to think.
>> Yeah, I think the general rule was,
yeah, if you direct it back to us before
you put up your hand and say, I'm quite
happy to talk to about that on behalf of
the city. uh because even if you say you
know it's hard to different like it's
really hard to separate the two to say
oh I'm this speaking to this as a you
know a citizen or a elected official as
long as it's really clear but if it's if it's not super clear that this is if
you want me to talk as someone running
for council which would be the same as
anybody else running for council um but
if they're saying you know whatever or
something come up as Stephanie said a
decision on on that you are going to
make tonight and you were clearly acting
on city business so you shouldn't be the
spokesman for that thing and I guess
during the election campaign we're not
having council meetings so that's not
going to happen but um you know they you
know you just have to the safe thing is
direct it back to us
[clears throat]
>> so media inquiries, I understand. But
what about citizen inquiries? Is that
the same thing?
>> Again, if it's about city business, then
it should be directed back to the city
and we will uh address it. If it's um
Leslie Payne, I'm a candidate for for
this thing. What's your opinion on
whatever u red bouncy balls? Then then
you can uh answer that as a elector or
as a campaign person. just or someone
running just as somebody that's not on
council can answer that same question.
And um
>> guess you need to make sure that you
differentiate like I'm not answering
this question as a counselor for the
city of Nelson. I am answering it as a
as part of my campaign as someone
running for council to be reelected. So
this is my personal opinion.
>> Maybe the easiest thing is pretend you
were not counseling. You're just
campaigning, right? [laughter]
>> Yeah. How would you add to that if you [clears throat] when you were not on
council and you were campaigning? Right.
>> I guess the for council that is sitting
now for those that are running again in
this upcoming election, it's really
important to be clear about the your
role like your two separate roles, your
separate roles. So yes, you are on
council.
You are um relaying the appetite of all
of council or it's you as an individual
running
for this election to be on council. So
you just need to be clear about
differentiating and saying ahead of time
when you answer someone or something.
So, just a last followup. I think the
city manager said that we wouldn't be
meeting during the campaign period, but
we do have meetings during the campaign
period.
>> Yes, we have one. We have one, I guess.
>> Okay. Yeah. So, I just wanted clarity if
something had changed.
>> We have four meetings left,
>> but I thought that's why I was confused
when that's okay.
>> During your meetings, J'll [laughter]
make it.
>> Looking for clarity.
>> Yeah.
>> A lot of moving targets these days.
>> Yeah. So, especially during that period
then. [clears throat]
>> Yeah.
>> And Yeah. just will primarily try to
handle most of those things as staff and unless that's clearly they want you
know it's a a political decision that
you know the mayor's a spokesperson
right
» and I do believe that if I'm not
mistaken that I saw a notice go out that
no um commissions or or committees will
be meeting in October.
>> That's true. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah.
>> So, where is that in our policies?
>> So, it doesn't have to be in our
policies. That's just an operational
decision that staff can make based on
the election. And the fact that we don't
want things to become election issues.
We don't want to put um or jeopardize
um committee members
in their integrity, I guess, like their
decision-m. We don't. So there's no point in having anything them
meet to discuss anything of.
>> So was that the CDC and the library are
included in that?
>> So the library um and the police are
different because they have a different
board, but the CDC, the housing
committee, um the APC, anything to do
with development, they're all included
in that.
>> So certain things will grind to a halt
then for like four months, it seems.
four months or four weeks.
>> Well, you've got October.
>> October.
>> That's it.
>> There's no meetings in October.
>> Okay, that's it.
>> So, everyone will be assigned to their
new commissions committees by the
November scheduled meeting then because
>> potentially, maybe not. But, I mean,
>> I'm trying to understand you're talking
about how business is going to roll
forward and I'm just trying to
>> I just I just saw it. I I read I think
it went to everybody. I I read that
there's going to be no meetings in
>> I did read it as well. So I didn't see
anything after that that the committee
selection should be
>> the committee selection typically
happens at a regular council meeting.
November 3rd is our inaugural meeting.
So that would that means that it's at
the prestige. It's kind of a it's a
swearing in ceremony of new council. Um
anything after that? So the December
meeting I think there's one meeting in
December. It's a regular meeting. It is
a business meeting and perhaps in
December or perhaps in January. I'm it
would be up to the new council or
council to decide um when the
appointments are made for anything other
than um regional district.
>> Yeah. And that could also be made in the
I mean there could be a special meeting
attached to the cow meeting of of
October. So it's not like
>> not of October
>> November. Sorry. The Yeah.
So
>> yeah, if there's something urgent that
you need need them to meet and and we
prioritize that and get people appointed
to that and carry on the business, you
know, we've never ran into a situation
where, [clears throat] you know, things
got stalled because we didn't get people
appointed to committees. So
>> I would just think the APC committee
would want to have that available to
run.
>> Yeah. And we're again we'll look at
what's coming up and what potentially
the APC would be looking at um and make
sure that we don't we don't we're not
interested in delaying people's projects
because we we're not organized at our
end. So we we'll definitely look at
those.
>> Okay.
>> Um so social media is gets some special
attention because it can blur the lines
between personal views and official
information. um and campaign messaging
pretty easily. So um the code of conduct
applies broadly to personal accounts,
official accounts, campaign accounts,
adv advocacy accounts, and any other
online platform used by council. U
members of council are responsible for
content appearing on their accounts and
should regularly monitor posts and
comments. Um, Stephanie, I don't know if
you want to speak any more to social
media and the importance of again
stating whether it's your personal
account or uh
>> you're representing council. Yeah, I
think definitely anytime,
you know, I'd love to see when you guys
share share uh the city content and and
definitely help get the messaging out
and anytime you feel compelled to
comment. I think just yeah making it
clear that it's your personal opinion
during this time and that you're not
like it's not necessarily an official
city of Nelson uh statement or a council
statement just to just to make sure that
it's that it's really clear to people
reading it.
>> Councelor Kane,
>> it's me again. [laughter]
[gasps]
So [clears throat] yeah, this is a this
is an interesting one for me because I
rarely use social media. So, the fact of
now needing to monitor it regularly is
um yeah, I'm trying to figure out how
I'm going to manage to do that. But one
of the things that I do, you know, when
you're talking about sharing, so we have
this AMI event coming up shortly. I
always try to share those events. I
rarely comment what
>> I don't see.
>> Oh, sorry. I [laughter]
heard something think
my hearing tests. [clears throat] Um,
yeah. I just want I rarely comment on
them unless to say, you know, it would
be great if a lot of people showed up or
something like that.
>> So that's that's you're saying that's
fine.
>> I can I can do that. So what would be
not fine?
>> And we're not, you know, not encouraging
you to to ramp up any behavior that you
would naturally do. Some people spend a
lot more time on social media than
others. Some people now comment more
than others. Some people just watch the
like it's all we're not asking you to
all of a sudden start sharing every city
post but then also saying that it's your
opinion. Um it's really just you know
doing what you're doing what you're
doing now that you're comfortable with.
But in the event that you do share
something um that has that's not just a
like a city announcement or a city
business. if it was an opinion on that
then we would want to see it um
>> on my personal
>> on your yeah just to you know that it is
your personal account and that it's not
um the opinion of the
>> so do I say that in the comments then
here
>> uh I mean you you can there's also um
like on your Facebook profile for
example there's like a space to write
like a little bit of a preamble so if
it's on your personal page you could
always just put it right at the top
there. Um,
>> okay.
Yeah, maybe a way to look at it is I
don't know if you have your
you you as a counselor sort of Facebook
profile and and to me I would do what
you normally do if you're sharing you
know this meeting coming up or whatever
but then on your you as the candidate
over here if that's a separate uh you know portfolio or
whatever then you know do your your
campaigning piece on this and on and on
your council one. Keep it clean. Here's
a meeting coming up and you know
maybe avoid you know commenting on it.
Just share information on that and on
your other ones that you um you know use
it more for your campaigning. Maybe
that's a
>> if I'm going to use it
>> keep the the two things separately. But
as soon as you start to melt them then I
think then it starts to gray things.
>> [clears throat]
>> don't know how to melt them. So, that
will probably not be an issue.
>> Yeah. I don't know if that's a easier
way to look at it is just keep them
clean.
>> Oh, yeah. And if you are using a a page
like a separate page for your campaign,
then yeah, that it's clear that it's a
campaign page. Um, and then also kind of
to this point is that you wouldn't be
using your official city of Nelson
counselor page to do any campaigning.
>> Yeah. Do we have official city of Nelson
counselor pages?
>> Well, do you have a Facebook profile?
Lesie Payne, city of Nelson counselor. I
would say that's your [clears throat]
people.
>> Not from You don't have to have one, but
>> Oh,
>> for those of you who do have one.
>> Okay.
>> I don't think any of us do.
>> I don't [laughter]
think if I have one, I don't know.
>> Yeah. Like I set these pages up. Oh my
god.
>> Yeah, they're not they're not pages that
the city assigned to you and said here's
the
>> idea is for clarity on the example is if
it's about the fact that the meeting for
the um advanced metering is coming up
and you see the city ad and you push
like or share and whatever happens to
that in social media cyerspace that I
don't understand the problem becomes if
you
that and share and the comment is this
is the stupidest thing I've ever seen
and it's going to be a tax wasting mess.
Um vote for me to make sure it gets
stopped. That would be a conflict.
>> Thank you.
>> Exactly. Yeah.
>> Okay. Perfect. Thank you.
I look for my Facebook preamble.
[laughter]
>> Okay.
>> Keith is looking at me like why are we
at
>> No, I'm cing it. I'm crafting. You're
convinced
[clears throat] an interview. [laughter]
>> No more pain
or my brain to pain.
>> So I think we've uh talked a lot about
social media accounts, personal accounts
[clears throat]
or city sanctioned account if you should
have one, which apparently did. So there
we go. Um protecting staff neutrality is
a foundational principle of local
government. So members um counselors
must not request or direct staff to
assist with campaign activities. I think
we talked about that at the beginning.
It's really important um to protect
staff in particular
>> and even indirect stuff like you know
[clears throat] some I'm out on the
campaign trail, somebody's asked me
about this. I'm going to phone stab
because the
>> candidate that is running that's not on
council doesn't have that opportunity to
do that. I think that's the,
>> you know, that's that's the fairness
that's trying to be created here is
don't do anything that the other
candidate that's not on council can
can't do, right? And so you mustn't, it
says you mustn't pressure staff, but um
I think even just by asking staff for
information is indirectly pressure. I
know that seems weird, but it's um it's
sort of
>> bosses they feel.
>> Exactly. Yeah.
>> Ask them for something they think they
need to answer, [snorts] which is
>> Well, more importantly, I think they
feel like they want to try and satisfy
you, right? So they're less likely to
give you an answer that you may not want
to hear. Right. So
>> yeah.
So it might not be accurate
information.
>> It's one of those things. Yeah.
>> Number two, it's not fair.
>> Yeah. To the city manager's point, you
know, they view you like bosses. And as
bosses, you have to understand that
while it doesn't seem like there should
be that expectation, you know, for us
all that are in leadership positions, it
always feels weird when you hear people
say, "Well, I don't know. You ask me
your boss. I'm trying to make you
happy." It's like I don't expect that of
you but people just generally feel that
way. So be very sensitive around that.
>> Uh this slide also reinforces
[clears throat]
another important governance principle
and that is that um counselors should
not direct staff on operational matters
except through the CEO or city manager
Kevin um or Chris or even the mayor. Not
even even or the mayor. Um, the
relationship between council and staff
should remain professional, respectful,
and free from political pressure. Sorry,
I just had a there's like some a little
notification notification. I'm looking
at the IT guy.
Um,
okay. So, uh, election periods do not
change obligations regarding
confidentiality, privacy, or records
management. Um, confidential information
obtained through official duties must
remain confidential unless disclosure
has been properly authorized. Personal
information must only be collected, used
or disclosed in accordance with
applicable privacy legislation,
including what if a privacy breach
occurs, it should be reported to the
corporate officer, that'd be me
immediately. Um, council records,
reports, correspondence, and other docu
documents created through official
duties remain city property.
Um, councilors should be especially
cautious when discussing city matters
online or sharing documents through
social media during the election period.
Um, campaign considerations never
override polic privacy or
confidentiality.
skipped that last one. So, I'm I'm still
back on social media. Sorry. But do not
publish personal information. What other
kind of information am I publishing as a
candidate?
>> Personal information about about other
people.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Didn't get other people. Thank you,
Rick.
[laughter]
» Read that three times. Thanks.
>> Which is can't be doing anyway.
>> I was gonna say it's it's so foreign to
what I way I think that I
>> This is all in our code of conduct.
>> Yes, absolutely. Y
>> um so before you communicate as um a
counselor or as a candidate, somebody
running, you need to ask yourself some
questions. And um is this city business
or is this a campaign activity? Um, am I
creating the impression that I am
speaking on behalf of the city? Um, am I
using city resources or staff time? Um,
is the information accurate, complete,
and not misleading? Is the communication
respectful?
Um, and have you made the appropriate
disclaimer? So, if it's your personal
um social media page that you say that
it is your personal opinion, not the
opinion of council.
And that's all I think.
>> Do you have anything that you want to
add?
>> Um, no, I don't think so.
And well, just to reiterate, too, like
if if a member from the media contacts
you as a candidate and wants to
interview you, that wouldn't need to go
through my office, just to be clear. But
if you're talking about city business,
then we'd appreciate that connection,
>> which is what we're supposed to be doing
all the time anyways.
>> Yes.
Yeah,
>> you just have to like double down now on
it.
>> Like we're never supposed to bother
staff about operational things. We're
supposed to
>> No, but but also if somebody contacts
you, wants to talk to you, like it's not
just during this period. It's all the
time it's supposed to
>> most of this is actually all the time,
not just now. Yeah.
>> To that point, if you have any questions
about something, if it goes or doesn't
go, get in touch with Kevin or Sarah and
we'll be able to sort out, right?
Okay, thank you. So that is the um
communications during election time
workshop.
>> Thank you. Thanks.
>> I'm still here. [laughter] So just let
me uh I have one more um presentation
that I want to talk about and that is
the action item list.
This is the second workshop.
You can do whatever you want with it.
[laughter]
[clears throat]
So, um
this is about the council correspondence
and the action item listing. So, this
workshop is a little bit different. I
would like some feedback from you. If
you have an appetite to share, that'd be
great. Um,
so, uh, there are two processes that are
very similar, but they're very different
at the same time. So um the purpose of
this discussion is to review the current
practices and identify where there may
be room for improvement and get
council's feedback. Get your feedback um
before we bring forward any updated
policies or processes
there. Um so we will talk about the
council correspondence and the action
item listing.
Okay.
So
currently correspondence can come in
different forms including letters
received by mail or handd delivered
emails from stakeholders
um and other local governments or senior levels of government and
submissions through the city's website
form. Under the current practice,
um the corporate officer, myself, we I
review the correspondence for privacy
and then I direct staff to add it to the
appropriate
um council correspondence package.
Okay?
And you council receives that package by
email
uh before the regular council meeting.
At the council meeting, you receive an
index of
um any of the correspondents, not the
actual correspondents.
>> Council P.
>> Um so handdivered letters um whether
they're individually or for everyone, we
used to get mail in those boxes back
there, but I don't think that we've had
mail in those letter boxes for quite
some time. Are we still doing that? we
just don't get that form of mail anymore
or what is the purpose of that?
>> The purpose of that was for invitations
um individual letters to council which
we don't seem to get any anymore. That's
basically the purpose of it. So that's
why it's
>> Christmas cards.
Yeah.
>> Like we
>> I'm just saying if you need some space,
it might not be the best use of uh
>> Yeah. Well, that's why we're going
through this whole
>> that's why process, right? Yeah.
>> Um okay. So the the challenge with our
current approach is that only the index
is included in the public agenda. So in
the agenda package
um right now council receives only
an itemized
um index of correspondents not the
actual correspondence.
Um the full package is sent separately
by email.
Okay. And that can create confusion if
council wants to discuss an item during
the meeting regular meeting um because
the public may not have the same easy
access to the material being referenced.
So if you Yeah. Okay.
So we're suggesting that this can be
this process can be improved to provide
greater transparency and easier access.
There are also two existing policies
that deal with correspondence and we are
looking um for your feedback before
bringing forward amendments or
potentially combining those policies
into one clearer policy.
Councelor P.
>> So you have included the correspondence
in tonight's agenda
>> I believe. Is it is [snorts] it it's
just the itemized listing, right? It's
not
>> down.
>> Okay.
>> Do you want to go through this and then
take questions?
>> Okay, that'd be great.
>> Yeah.
[clears throat]
So, um the intent is to distinguish
between correspondence that should be
included in the council correspondence
package and correspondence that is more
appropriately handled administratively.
Under the proposed approach, form
submissions, advertising, unsigned
correspondence,
um,
operational letters and repetitive
letters would not be included in council
correspondence
package, the package. So that's what you
get before a council meeting.
>> And Sarah, that's regardless if they
address it to council.
>> Yes.
>> We determine it's operational. We'll try
to deal with it. And I guess that person
always has the chance to say, "We think
your policy stinks and you should change
it and I want this to go to council."
>> That's one of the things that we're
trying to figure out like right now.
>> Yeah.
>> That's what I would like feedback on.
like I you know if that's the
distinction you know you don't you know
[clears throat] my street wasn't plowed
properly and we go and we say to them
you know our policy is to plow your
street at 4 in of snow and and we did
that and they say well we think your
policy sucks and council should revisit
that and it would go to council as a
policy decision. So what we're thinking
that operational matters would be
directed to the appropriate department
and dealt with and responded to like a
thank you and um often like right now
Stephanie is dealing with um the web
mail the web forms that we receive or
you receive and then and we sort of
staff sometimes receive them as well.
Um, and if they're operational in
nature, we send them off to the
appropriate staff person to address and
then Stephanie sends it out again like
[snorts] as a response and I believe she
CC's you um but then but again it's
operational so we need um direction
about whether we include council or not.
Um, okay. Correspondents from
governments, First Nations, and advocacy
organizations, stakeholders, and similar
bodies are included in the council
correspondence package and on the
agenda. Um,
see, letters of support or advocacy from
the city would also be included. Invites
would be provided to council as they are
received, so council has enough time to
plan accordingly.
Um the proposed change is that the full
council correspondence package including
both the index and the materials are
included in the council agenda
um monthly. So does that make sense?
» Okay.
>> Can I just ask
>> Yes. Does it make sense it's on that
regular agenda versus a cow where you
get a chance to look at it and decide
whether you you want to refer something
to a regular agenda. It's just we're not
going to deal with it at a regular
meeting.
>> That's right.
Maybe the first time you see it is on a cal meeting and there are things
there that So I guess one of the
questions is whether or not you want to
see
uh the correspondence package mirror the
agenda package
as well, right? because then you have a
chance to um digest the correspondence
package, potentially pull something out
at a regular or cow meeting, whichever
you decide, but you have had a chance
beforehand before the meeting um to
review the correspondence.
» That makes sense. Is it that you're suggesting that at a
cow we would see the correspondence
report from corporate services as we do
right now? That's what I heard from the
CEO is that right now on a regular we
have the list of August 5th and I'm
hearing that we would restrict that list
to showing up at the cows only. And in
the current form that I see it's it's
declares what the letters are about. And
there's just enough information shared
out so people know and seemed
appropriate level. So
would we continue doing that? Would we
is that direction?
>> I think maybe what I was hearing in the
question was is that it's like one or
the other. I guess I guess the idea is
um
when I hear that question being asked,
this is where my head goes is if it
stays in the regular and we have it all
there and we're in a regular meeting,
somebody who's particularly feisty might
say, "No, I demand to have this dealt
with right now and we would have perhaps
no staff input on whatever the
correspondence was on the table." And so
then you're in a process where people
might not have thought that piece of
correspondence was of any particular
interest or maybe it was or it wasn't or
however they feel about it. And then
you've got somebody demanding to get it
on the table, getting a seconder, having
a vote, and then all of a sudden you've
got something that you have to deal with
um right away. Or do we want to have the
ability to look at the correspondence
and flag and say number 12 um is of
interest. What do other people think
about number 12? And then decide whether
or not then you actually want to make a
formal recommendation that um that you
refer it back to staff
>> um to bring it forward for a piece of
business.
>> Okay. But the current practice right now
is it shows up on the on the most
convenient meeting that comes up next
after the report has been completed and
sent to us. Like you finish on the 5th
of August, it gets circulated. The
summary is finished and it's here
because this happens to be our next
meeting. Like you're not repeating it at
the next cow. You're not also listing it
out. That's right.
>> Right.
>> That's right.
>> So the suggestion would be you would
always wait for a cow. reinforcing the
idea that cows are places where
discussions happen and the public shows
up and there's also letters and that's
[snorts] considered your opportunity to
refer to your next regular which is
always another two weeks away
>> in most instances
sometimes it's at the regular because
that was the next one sometimes it's the
cow and it will
>> show up sporadically based on its own
schedule like I I don't mind the
symmetry of it just sticking to the cow
for clarity I'm fine with that
>> and would Do you does council have an
appetite for it for you to receive the
correspondence package as a package once
a month that would then show up again on
the cow agenda
>> versus a separate circulation?
>> No,
>> I my suggestion is just make it part of
the cow agenda. I think it's just all in
one time that you look at it because
>> the other day when something got pulled
out, I was like, "Okay." And
unfortunately, I had never gotten the correspondence package. So, I was
looking at something and somebody wanted
to put something on the table. I'm like,
I don't even know what that's about
because I didn't read it because I never
got the correspondence package. Now that
I have a clear sense of what is being
asked, I I think what would work best
for me and others may agree is produce
in the correspondence report as it will
appear in the cow on that monthly
schedule. So at the start of the month,
we always anticipate this collection of
letters will come in from the last month
and then when we get to the next cow to
also be the same thing that we see there
like they're not two. So we
>> reports, but we do get the
correspondence just on its own monthly
schedule because it's just a volume in
and of itself.
>> So just packing it into the cow
>> to me feels like then we're just we have
to read it all at the same time when we
don't need to read it all at the same
time.
>> The big show the gap though.
>> Well, it just show it will you'll get
that particular report when it's due at
the beginning of the month. So you won't
get the emails that have come in since.
>> You'll get that email and then that same
report, that same package will show up
in the cows,
>> right? But if you said at the beginning
of the month and the cows the third week
of the month, what about those wait that
long unless it's urgent, but you'll have
seen [snorts] it for July.
>> Sure.
>> But you'll get it and then you'll know
you can talk about it the next cow.
And sometimes it's long, but most times
it's not.
versus it always just being packed in
the cow because I think then you're
going to have all the cow stuff like we
have today and then the correspondence
package al also showed up on a Thursday.
>> So you're so basically you're you're
asking for it to be sent to all of us as
an email.
>> Yeah.
>> And then in a meeting it's also showing
up again in its entirety embedded into
an agenda.
>> Yeah.
>> So you're asking for it
>> with no with no adjustments and nothing
else came in since that time. That will
go into the next cycle that happens at
the start of the next month.
So it would So you get it at the
beginning of the month.
>> Yeah.
>> For the previous month.
>> Yeah.
>> In a correspondence package.
>> Yeah.
>> Then you also get it in the count
agenda.
>> Yeah.
>> In its totality.
>> Uh just the just the cover page.
>> Oh, just the cover page. Okay.
>> What that what we're getting now cuz
we'll had it there.
>> Okay.
>> If you wanted to, you could put the
letters in the in camera part of it.
>> So the only
>> I would ignore that. I would just do
>> So I just want to go back to my example
is that last
month, something was pulled out about
ebikes or e- scooters
>> and all I had was just a reference to
that and I had never received the
correspondence package so I never read
it. So when somebody pulls out number 12
and it's a line, I have nothing to refer
to.
So, do you not want to see like would
you not want to see the correspondence
in the
>> I mean if we can keep going the way
we're doing it now which is what
basically you're saying and it's just
the fact that the list comes at the cow
versus the regular
>> do we want to be publishing full letters
in in the agenda like that's is that the
>> well that's well that's the question I
mean the question I always have is like
do we do these because how much do we
have to retract and then what do we do
about letters that we get that are
really in camera like are really
>> they go in camera. They should go in
camera. I mean, they shouldn't be
showing up or being in a correspondence
package that gets sent to you or like I get that's where I get a little
bit cuz cuz I I see what we kind of get
at at at police which is um heavily
required to be in camera and I just I
know there's things here and like how
much are you going to redact and and
stuff before you um
>> I would just put the bundle in the in
camera the the list there that's been
redacted that has been
and just put it in camera.
>> Okay, then
>> maybe
we can investigate like we should be
able to just put it in a folder and put
a link on your on your council
correspondence that if you want to see
that the detail, you just, you know,
click on it from here and it'll take you
to that. I
>> I guess one of the challenges is that
members of the public then are not
seeing
in full what you're talking about. Yeah.
>> Well, they're not seeing in full now
what we're talking about.
>> That's right. Councelor Panero,
>> I'm trying to follow along here, but
>> um seems to me like we just need a
mechanism by which everybody can see
the correspondence and then we're trying
to avoid a situation where something
comes up and we have to make staff
scramble because they haven't prepared
anything. Like we we don't want that. So
seeing it as it comes in and then
putting it together if it's if we're
seeing it as it comes in and then the we were seeing it in real time
basically and then having that list
>> at a
cow I guess we know the context of that
list and at that cow then we would refer
it to the next if it's something we need
to pull out we all know it and we get
that extra time. So, I think that's the thing. Is that am I
understanding? You're right. Cuz that seems perfect for me. Like we we're
still we don't have to wait to see it or
we're not like letting it cook for 3
weeks without looking at it. We're
seeing it as it comes. But then at that
cow there's this list and if anybody if I or or council Wenberg wants to pull
something at that point for the next to
like refer it to the next
or just to discuss, right? And so we're
not then discussing things that nobody's
ever heard of. We're not disc we're not
throwing staff for a loop by accident or
on purpose and and it's fine. Um so yes.
>> So it sounds like sounds like people
want to do this at the the cow.
>> For sure. Yep.
>> For sure. I mean that's where we want to
see
>> this list with the potential for having
discussion would be at um a cow.
>> Yes. So,
>> so I gather that from council um
I gather
what I'm hearing I guess is that at the
beginning of each month you would
receive a full package that would have
all the correspondence from the previous
month and then you would have um at the
next cow meeting you would have it
>> summarized So line item like you
wouldn't have the actual letters in the
package. And if you want to pull out
some something that's correspondence,
this is where I think I'm I need you to
tell me then you vote on it to make sure
as council to make sure that all of
council actually wants to move forward
with it and then it gets placed on an
agenda
>> or a work plan or whatever. It's an
action ite or the action item listing,
right?
>> Which I'm going to talk about in a
second.
>> I think [clears throat]
[snorts] the only
clarification I would make there. I
think the idea of putting on a cow is to
give us space to um decide whether it's
going to go on a regular. So I I
wouldn't want to see it go on an action
list cuz now you're dealing with it in
the heat of the moment as opposed to we
got two weeks to you know to decide yeah
this makes sense and and in a regular
meeting deciding whether there's going
to be some action on it or not. I think
the cow meeting is refer it to yes we
want to refer this one
>> to the cow meeting or a regular meeting
to decide what action we want to take on
this.
[clears throat]
I think that creates that additional
space to do that.
The um mayor,
>> the only quibble I have with your plan,
councelor page, is that three weeks of
gap, a lot of the correspondence we get
from the public is like there's a big
issue that's come up, but people write
letters and it's like the time frame is
often shorter like well the two weeks
before or the week before a cow when
they know it's coming on the agenda,
that's when they'll write the letter.
And I can just anticipate a lot of
blowback from the public like
frustration
um when you know they may have a bunch
of people organized, wrote a bunch of
letters and really got passionate about
it and that that we just don't even
address it. Um, [clears throat]
>> I I think that um I I hear what you're
saying about sort of timeliness, but
when I think of all of the years, and
you've now sat here for eight, that for
the longest time, we never saw
correspondence. So, let's just get that
on the table. I mean, we weren't really
seeing correspondence unless somebody
was bringing it up, but you personally
might have gotten some correspondence. I
mean, we still haven't ser solved all
the correspondence problems. Like
correspondence that I get that comes
directly to the mayor usually gets
opened by a staff person before it even
hits my desk. I have no idea what people
are sending to the rest of you cuz
you're not coming in with your letter
and sharing it with the rest of us. My
mail gets shared. I don't know what
counselors do. just like the online
submitt form and like that's one that I
would like to talk about sort of
separately because a lot of that comes
on that online submitt form we all see
it. I have no idea how many of you
actually respond to it cuz you decide
that you know that person and you want
to respond. Um, but at the same time, a
lot of that is operational. And what I
have suggested to staff and maybe you
guys think that I'm wasting staff's time
and they're not doing it because of the
fact that we need to have a discussion
about it is that when it's operational
and we know that Stephanie has then sent
it to say public works public works
answers the question sends it back to
Stephanie to send out to the person that
wrote the letter is because it's
operational. I would kind of like to
know what the answer is to the question.
It's not that I'm going to change
operations or that I'm going to write
another letter and say that operations
is wrong. It's just that it's also an
opportunity for us to learn like when
somebody asks a question about why don't
we plow the snow when it's 2 in versus 4
in and we've got a sound answer for
that. We know it's in the policy and we
could look. when that person's getting
that letter back, it's nice to see what
we've sent them back
>> just because then we know and it just
kind of puts a bow on the,
>> you know, and a lot of those online
things are just comments. So, we're not writing back or anything like
that. I mean, it's a comment. People are
allowed and and we are all seeing that,
right? Um, so [clears throat] I I did
think that maybe for that and that would
be different than it being in our
correspondence package because we've
already seen the correspondence like to
me correspondence package is a little
bit of you guys getting to see all the
things that come into the mayor's
office. Like responses back from the ministry like when we've gone
to a ministerial meeting and I get the
letter comes back to me and then you
guys all get to to see it because I make
sure that it gets into a correspondence
package. online submittals. You've
already read what the question is,
>> but I think that you should get to know
what the answer is, but I don't think
that that has to be public. I don't
think that has to be put into a
correspondence package. That's just a
way that's just a form for way for
people to contact us.
>> Right. So I guess then I'm a little bit
confused about the purpose of if not for
the purpose of of
delivering us correspondence and then
having us pull something out and refer
it to next business meeting if it didn't
also include things that were timely.
Like for example this the grizzly bear
situation that's you know really a lot
of people are concerned about. Let's say
we got a whole bunch of emails in the
week. It just happened. We have a cow
coming up the following week. You know,
it would be good to know,
did people send staff a whole bunch of
emails? You know, like the the issues
like that are often quite timely. And so
we would want to and and the action that
we might come out of that would be let's
have the we want a motion of council to
have whilst they've come in and explain
the situation. might be simple as that,
but it is a timely thing that would be
have been generated by a whole bunch of
emails that have come in. That's the only thing I'm confused about
like that the timeliness oftentimes are
a factor three weeks because because
otherwise the scenario would be we're
then waiting not just three weeks
actually we're waiting a month and a
half it would be a month and three weeks
before it comes back to the next cow.
that that seems like it would generate a
lot of frustration and the way that
people would then express they get
frustrated and then so that what they
would do is they'd come to a cow and
we'd have a whole bunch of people coming
up and providing delegation.
>> I think that I mean am I am I wrong? I
mean we have council
um we have the ability to give council
reports at meetings. I mean,
>> well, you can't if there's an urgent
issue that all council believes it's
urgent, you can put it on the table and
>> right
>> we can share what kind of
[clears throat] any information we have
at that stage.
>> But then that would be true of any
issue. I I'm I'm just trying to
understand the consistency there like
because timeliness does seem to be a
factor then then just let's not have the
correspondence at all.
>> Well, I think I'm hearing two competing
things. one is uh I heard from councelor
Paige if we get this right at the cow
meeting you know with that agenda you
know there's a lot of other things on
there do I have a chance to get through
all that correspondence so
>> so um
getting it at the beginning of the month
and creating that space gives time to
sort of break up the work you do
>> uh so that's one principle and the other
principle how do we make sure timeline
is so I don't know if there's a solution
where it's we get that correspondence
maybe not at the first of the month but
at the as close you know give you a week
time
>> two week something
>> right so maybe it's just the time when
we give you the correspondence maybe it
doesn't have to be the first of the
month maybe it's from the 15th to the
15th or whatever the 10th to the 10th or
something like that that you know break
[clears throat] or reduces that gap a
little bit that gives you the space to
read it before the cow meeting and also
is you know not unduly delayed so we can
look at you know what's reasonable for
us to get that out and I think as far as
the detail of it I I think we can
hyperlink it to you know to the actual
correspondent so that list you get could
be hyperl so if you want to pull out
number 12 you didn't remember it from when it came across you can click
on number 12 and it'll take you to that
>> actual for
>> council
>> for council. Yeah, that actual letter
>> councelor Panero and then councelor
Paige. It just strikes me that I'm just
trying to think of situations that have
actually happened sort of like what
Russell Lockenberg was talking about and
seems to me that if we had a situation
like that where and we've seen that a
number of times a bunch of
correspondents comes in right before a
cow meeting for [snorts] example and
it's something pressing urgent happening
everybody comes in and you're probably
going to get public comment about it as
well
>> and we do have the ability am I wrong to address public comment if we so
desire. We don't have to, but if it's
something that we've gotten, you know,
whether it's on the correspondence
package or not, but we've received 40
emails about it and there's a room full
of people talking about it, we can then
say at that point, we're going to refer
this to the next meeting, which is what
we would normally do anyway. And so that
would satisfy
it's it's not any more timely, but I
don't see how we would then like we're not addressing it in a substantial
substantive way anyhow. We mostly just
refer it to the next meeting if that was
the thing and we're still free to do
that whether the whether the
correspondence package comes here or
there. So I think that that there's a
mechanism for exactly what you're saying
and I think it's a good point that you
know the public wants to see things
happening and also there's things that
are timesensitive.
The grizzly bear thing being a good
example. Um and so for those
timesensitive things I think we have the
mechanism to act in a timely fashion
already regardless of what the
correspondence package does. What the
correspondence package, this amendment
might do is just things that maybe
aren't that maybe don't fill a room full
of people, but are an action item
nonetheless. And then we can
have that be referred in a in a in a
more sane way than than just dealing
with it right now on staff where some
people at the council table aren't
actually prepared to discuss it
properly. So does that
>> Yeah. No, it's on that and I think we
get that if we if we move the
correspondence package just to being in
a in the cow on on the cow days. I mean
I it's going to be a work in process cuz
I mean like the whole thing is is like I
remember used to get all the
correspondents because in the old days
you used to get like two 4 in binders
while now we have everything electronic
and and like in the old day we we all
knew that we all saw what we were
seeing. Nowadays I don't know what
anybody's seeing, right? Like that's really the the issue is that it's
and then and how do you how do you
capture that and you control that? Well,
you can't because we're all humans and
we've all got our own personal foibless
on on how we look at things and um
address things. And the idea is is that
as well we try to keep working on
transparency and accountability is
making sure that that that people not
just that that we as a group but also
the community gets to see or hear what
kind of correspondence comes across. And
I think that that as much as we've
struggled with this in this term, I
think that we're doing a as as good a
job as we can do right now given the
tools we have. I think there's always
room for um improvement of how we do
this communication and I think it's a
work I think this is a work in process
because of the way communication is is
changing. I think this is a um a huge
change.
So the other area clarification I think
based on um mayor what you had brought
up is
[clears throat] I heard from you even if
it's operational I would still like to
hear the answer to that. So I so if
we're doing that so anything addressed
to council then even if it's operational
you would like to see our response to
that if and we can do that I guess in
the in that same correspondence or
>> not I wasn't asking for this in the
correspondence package. So, I'm going to
just clarify cuz I just kind of like cuz
I've been musing about correspondence
cuz we talk about it periodically during
our term is the fact that so we get
these things called online submitts
which I like drives me crazy just the
name even. Um [clears throat] and and it
goes to all of us so we all see it and
in the background we have um I believe
it's Stephanie that's in the background
as a staff person that sees that come in
because it's coming in and now it's the
property of the city of Nelson. Um, and often times they're just little
comments. You you only have so much
room. So maybe it's a paragraph or um a
question or whatever. And they're often
operational as I find. And I don't know
the rest of you can comment on it. And
that gets dealt with. But I'd like to be
able to close the the loop particular
when it's operational. So if somebody's
asking the question about why is it 4 in
that that we plow up versus two that person
John Doe is going to get a letter back
from staff from public works that says
this is the reason why. And I just sort
of think that it's important for to for
council to know this is the reason why
because although we have a policy on
snowballing and we could all go and look
at the policy. We're all busy people
just like the person that asked the
question. It's just that when that goes
out, it goes back to that person and
then it's just CC to council and then
that person also gets to see that that
the council has also seen the answer
that they've gotten
>> to just close [clears throat] the loop.
>> Okay. So,
>> because that's too much to put in the
correspondence. We get a lot of those.
So, we were talking staff were talking a
little bit about this and one of the
things that came up was
maybe people submit that form with their
issue or whatever it is on it to council
because they don't know where else to
submit it to them.
>> And so it ends up being say operational.
We deal with it. But what I hear you
saying, mayor, is you would like to be
CCD or included in the response to it.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> So, can I ask how that's different than
what if someone emailed all you guys and
the same question? So, we don't include
you on the answer to that one, but we do
want to council submitt.
>> Well, it's just so but the email thing
is different because email could be to
two of us and I might not even know that
it got that an email went out, right?
that online submitt because it's an
embedded place within our system where
people can go
that we all see. I think it would be
nice to know what the answer was to the
question.
The fact that people email us and
sometimes they email Nelson Counsel,
>> sometimes they do other things. Um, but
I think that that online submit, I've
just always struggled with it because I
know it's being um answered, but
sometimes I don't know what the answer
is. But is that a a question for say a
Kevin to then come to one of us or
direct it to the um staff person that's
the expert in the field whether it's a
Charlie or a Chris or whatever to get
the answer and then it comes back to
Kevin and he provides it to you to
>> like that's what I'm just asking for.
the CC that's going
to go back to the person that's asking
the question.
>> Yeah. And Kate's got a question.
I don't want to we have other things we
have to do. But Kate,
>> yeah,
>> thanks. I just wanted to chime in on two
little bits there that I think we might
be able to fix just by adapting the form
a little bit. I'm curious if we could
add a little check box at the bottom
that says, um, if you would like your
message included officially in an agenda
package, please include your name and
address here. So then we're like, okay,
cool. that goes into correspondence
whether it's operational or otherwise. I
think that might clear clear that piece
of it up. Um it adds more work but
hopefully the copying and pasting.
Hopefully most people aren't going to
want their name and address included.
You know, some kind of appropriate um
optin with a disclaimer. And similarly,
now that I'm thinking about it, the form
could have some information there that
says if this um submission is
operational in nature, please know that
staff will forward it to the appropriate
staff person and when the reply comes to
you, council will be CCD. So that kind
of clarity for the submitter and for all
of us, I think might clear up like who,
what, where. Um,
yeah, that that's my suggestion to kind
of simplify some of those processes
because then the submitter is kind of
opting into
these questions.
>> Could
>> what do you think,
>> councelor Tate? Do you think that we
could ask a question? Is this
>> Yeah.
>> Um, do you is this intended for council
or is this an operational question or
>> Yeah. Great.
>> Yeah. I mean that or you or even you
could put that but folks might not know
but then the then the initial response
to the person can say hey just so you
know this is operational we forward it
to such and such and I know you do that
already but if it's on the form page
right there um then that helps people
understand you know Kate Tate's not
going to reply to this complaint about
the snow plowing at this time because
Kate is not in operations right but then
if it comes back on the second go. Now,
hopefully this doesn't cause frustration
because I I don't want there to be
frustration, but like um the CIO
mentioned, well, if people are like,
"Your policyy's stupid, Kate Tate.
Please do something about that." Well,
then that's in a different step and
that's also a different communication.
So, it might be worthwhile to somehow
kind of give just upfront give a little
bit of information about how operational
questions will be responded to.
>> Okay, I like that. But it still doesn't
I don't think address the issue of does
council see the response from staff if
it's an operational question does it?
Well, I think
>> let's refine let's talk about the
options because I think we don't have to
call it operational council. We could
say would you like
>> u would you like this to go to a council
meeting uh or would you like you know or
something like that. I think we can come
up with something that doesn't make the
person try to figure out where where it
should go. Um um um so I think if we do
that then I do agree like does council
want to see every time someone we send
somebody yeah it's our policy is 4 in or
no we yes we did come by and pick up
your garbage and you clearly didn't have
it out on on time or no our plow truck
did not go by your your house at that
time our our GPS. Our truck was nowhere
in the in the thing. Like, how deep in those things do you want to go?
>> Can I can I just ask a question? And I
think this question I it feels like
we're belaboring it a bit. However, I
think this is actually pretty
it's it's bigger than it than it looks
or could could be bigger than it looks
on two ways. Number one is let's say we
get everything. We just get it all. get
everything that's the public writes to
us and then and the response and it goes
into a database or folder that we
technically have that already. It's just
kind of our access to it. Yeah.
>> So let's say we do we give give council
access and then there's a layer on top
we already have basically is an AI layer
where you can just query it tell me and we just make it a practice as a
council that if you have any questions
you don't have to read everything you
can get summaries you can inquire
through the AI to pull out any detail
>> agent or something
>> some sort of agent can do that's not a
problem so so I think that's something
we should do. There's since there's
really no reason not to just make that
service available to council. And then
secondly, communicating to the public
that council has that capability I think
would really help because I think one of
the challenges that the public has with
local governments generally, but ours in
particular, is this sense of like I
can't get through this. the form is too
short or I don't feel like I'm getting
heard or whatever. But and if we had
that system, then someone like um
counselor Payne could just like pull up
everything related to culture or
housing, tell me all the correspondents
that we've had related to housing and
she can then come to the meeting pretty
prepared to pull out something that she
feels
>> come up with the solution and
everything. Yeah, I can come up with a
solution [laughter] and solve it. And
she doesn't even she can come up with a
solution. But that I I think if we've
got it all right now, that's probably
what we can just provide that capability
to council and let the public know on
the form that their um email or their
message is available to to council.
Um
if if if even need if they even need to
know that. I think some would appreciate
that. Otherwise, they're going to keep
hammering away to try to feel like I
need to get this to council. But if
they're told
>> well I mean it tells you right there
like you know when you read that online
submitt I'm just talking about just one
way that we get communication from the
public just about the online submittal
form and it tells you like when you send
that it it says there in the header if
you read them that this has been
received by council and you will get and
you will be receiving a response.
>> Right.
>> Yeah.
>> So it's already there. I don't know what
we would change. We could we could write
it nicer maybe or fluffier or
>> Yeah. [laughter] or nothing at all.
Maybe we've got it all. As long as
council does have the ability to both
see everything that comes in in a in a way that you don't have to kind of
scan through your emails every time. You
could just query it and you see the
response.
>> Yeah. I just wanted to see the response
to those those particular ones.
>> Yeah. Yes. So is that then sort of our
preferred method of communication then
is we're going to direct people through
this because there's a system that
manages this versus if you're going to
email individuals or everyone or because
we seem to be treating those as
different things. I choose to email all
you
>> um then you have access to the answer to
that or or not is I think some of the
where you have where we we need to have
some consistency because I don't know
necessarily the way you do it should
dictate sort of how we handle that.
Well, I don't know that you can control
email.
>> Currently, when we apply like sort of as
a practice, uh if a question comes in
from a counselor,
>> we as staff reply to [clears throat]
all of you, right?
>> If it comes into
>> if it's Yeah. So, I guess, you know, if
council has access to see the items and
a counselor or, you know, someone from
council or mayor sees something that
they'd like to see a response on,
perhaps it could be as easy as sending,
hey, I'd love to see the response to
this, right? And, you know, is that a
possibility that we do it more of as a
one-off than as a rule? Um because I can
tell you again, you know, uh 99% of the
time that I get a request from a
counselor, I will respond to you all
with the the answer once we figured it
out. Uh and it's because that counselor
took the time and said, you know, I'm
interested in this. What's going on or
whatever, right? Like what's the the
story? Similarly, if that inquiry comes
in, whether whatever format it comes in,
you know, as it comes in to be able to
send to staff that, you know, hey, I'm
really interested in the answer to this
and that'll just trigger us. We don't
provide an answer to just a single
counselor, right? We provide a tall of
counsel so everybody's on equal footing.
Everybody has the same knowledge. So, is
that what could that resolve? I don't I
don't think it has to be that
complicated. Like what I'm what I'm
imagining is if the the correspondence
and the replies are going into some
repository somewhere
>> then AI can do anything we want. We
could say just as a counselor I could
say give me a weekly summary of it. give
me a weekly summary on on housing issues
or give me a weekly summary on
everything and break it down and then I
can query it to say, "Oh, I'm interested
in did they ever send an email before
and what did council or what did staff
reply to?" Do you know what I mean? Like
>> and I I hear that. I think that there's,
you know, and and we might get there.
There's a fair amount of work on the
back end because that might go to any
number of staff to respond to. And I
guess what we'd have to be doing on the
staff side is saving this into a
repository, dumping it there for then AI
to be able to glean the information.
>> But my my premise going back was that
we're kind of doing that already in that
if we were going to build a package to
bring to offer to council,
>> you're you're doing that work.
>> So why don't we talk about the
principles of what you know, let's we
can look at the tools. So the principle
what is you know Sarah said there are
some things that are clearly operational
that we could just respond to and keep
council out of it. You don't need to be
part of that. Um and there's things that
are clearly council that are policy
decisions. So that's one way we could do
it. um the mayor is you know suggested
hey at least on the council submitt I'd
be interested in even if it's
operational to hear that answer so I
think that's one principle that we need
to understand so if if you do then we
can decide you know it's a tool such as
you suggested a way to make that more
effective and efficient um so so I think
that what you want to see is the
beginning of of it all.
>> I mean, and I think it's a
there's some good ideas about the house.
Like there's some good the principle for
me
is we can improve the online submittable
form. Uh I like the idea of checking a
box saying I'd like my correspondence
included in an upcoming public meeting.
Uh, and so it's then treated as a letter
that's been signed. And I would add an
attach file opportunity right after that
box that's not required. The box is
something that you drop down and get to
select and say yay or nay just to make
it explicit. I'm treating this like
correspondence. I want this to be a
political statement I'm making. I want
this to be you should shift policy. And
that turns it into correspondence. We
treat like correspondence. and you add
the attachment, it maybe induces you to
write down a word doc, which sometimes
when you're expressing those things
versus a box, you still get the box, but
the attach file B is like your
well-refined version of what you're
trying to say. And that might spawn some
people [clears throat] to do that letter
instead of just what they put in the
box, which would be an upgrade. And if
they don't, just like email, right? It's
a request. You now know there's a
problem over on in Fair View for a bin
to be picked up. Staff are by there.
They actually already picked it up. And
if we're curious, uh, we will reach out
and say, "Hey, what do you know about
that?" And if one of us is curious,
that's usually an indicative of staff
sending something back out to everybody
just to close the loop. I'm okay with
how that's all been running. But I do
think Kate's point on just a little bit
more on the form to say you you are
turning this into a correspondence by
doing these additional actions.
Otherwise, it's just staff's going to be
in this little pieces attached around
here. Well, I've already told you it's
an operational kind of 311 request which
we don't have.
And one day we'll have a service work
order system and we'll get some sort of
report that tells us requests in
requests out by department and success
>> rates there, but we don't have that yet.
So
>> I'd wait for that system. Are
>> those online submittal things? I guess
my only question would be
Some of those are like very clearly
operational questions and have nothing
to do with anything else. It's just like
>> you didn't pick up my garbage.
>> Yeah. And so because I'm pissed about my
garbage or how much snow is in my lane
or whatever, I might tick that box
because when I'm upset, I want everybody
to know about it. doesn't mean that it
necessarily belongs
in in their
>> response.
>> Yeah.
>> Push the button. I mean, we just push
that button.
>> They get to they get to say
>> they get to decide
>> that it's a letter.
>> The sender gets to decide
>> and then we just get to decide to
>> Well, then it just goes in
correspondence. So, you're going to read
it when you get the
>> We do that. We have people that'll come
in and Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Write a letter on a piece.
>> Provide a letter and Yeah. that it could
have it goes in the correspondence
package.
>> Yeah, it goes in the correspondence
package for the cow.
>> Okay, fine. [snorts]
>> Okay, so I'm going to move along to the
action item listing, everyone's favorite
thing.
Um, so you adopted a new action item
listing policy on February 3rd and the
purpose of the policy was to help manage
staff workload
um and to provide a structured way to
track ideas or matters that arise from
council. Um, a key point is that the
action item listing does not on its own
constitute direction to staff. Staff
direction still needs to come from
council as a body through a formal
resolution.
Um items that do not receive a
resolution do are not added to the
action item listing.
Um the policy is intended to create a
kind of parking lot for council ideas.
It allows council to identify matters
that may be considered in the future
without immediately redirecting staff
resources or work plans. The policy also
reinforces that staff resources should
be directed to matters formally endorsed
by councils during quarterly or periodic
reviews. Council will take a look at the
um action item listing and decide
whether an item should move forward or
not and where it goes and how we address
it. Um
so um we need to determine we need to
clarify the scope and whether the item
should be removed.
Um and we need to decide whether
individual requests for information can
still be made through the CAO which
I don't know. I'm thinking yeah. Uh the
action item listing is intended to deal
with council generated matters that
require tracking, formal consideration
or future direction. So
um I need to know from you council um
are you satisfied with the action item
listing policy as it is right now or do
you want would you like to see changes
to it?
>> I like it.
>> So formal resolution
if if on a topic or a subject it goes to
um a quarterly or budget meeting. Yeah,
I think maybe [clears throat] some of
the
uh some of the additional work we can do
is is just making sure we have time to
talk about those things and say you know you know councelor Panero said
sometimes things become sort of hot
items and then they go well actually you
know the world didn't end so we don't
really need to change the world so maybe
we don't need to spend a bunch of staff
time on this so maybe we'll just build
and you know a six-month review or there
some of these things that are just not
worth spending time. We're not really
going to take it to strategic priorities
or we're not really going to uh put it
on a staff's work work plan or whatever.
Let's have a second sober thought a
little bit later or this one is actually
we're hearing more and more about this.
We need to actually get it on someone's
work plan and deal with it. So I think
if we just build in a
>> I know but we put it on the agenda and
it it garers about five minutes of it's
at the end of the day and and a long
meeting and it garers you know five
minutes of let's just move on. So I
think if we just build in some
>> I have a question in terms of Yes. So I
mean we you need to I mean you have to
review the parking lot. There has to be
enough time for it.
Um I'm looking at the proposed best
practice and and it says about doing it
on a regular and I don't really
particularly care which meeting is but
my question is more to um Mr. Jury and
that is do we do the quarterly
updates at a regular meeting or are
those usually at a cow?
I mean, it's hard with the Q2 because,
you know, timing wise, I have to wait
till everything kind of comes in and
then I look at it and I say we only have
one meeting in August. So, it's a bit
challenging, but
>> Q2 is on the regular meeting.
>> Yeah.
>> For tonight.
>> Yeah. It's on this agenda,
>> but you know, if if there's preference
to ensure that it's in a cow for the Q3
that
>> Yeah. I don't know. I was just I'm just
looking at this know in terms of the
fact I just was thinking um was there
did it make any sense to try to line up
>> the doing a quarterly financial update
and then be looking at the action list
thinking about what the strategic plan
is so that it almost becomes like a
again a a conversation
around like so I'm just trying to figure
out does does that does the action list
have to be in a regular or when we
normally hear this is in the cow. So
again that we would say on those means
we see those two things together so that
we know that X is on the action list and we're hearing what the finances are
here and we've got staff in the room and
are is this can we now action this for
either one we've got room in somebody's
work plan or two we just won the lottery
and now can afford to do the work Like
it would there be any not that we're
going to mind meld them together but to
of being able to hear what the financial
position of the city is and then to hear
where we are on the the action list like
to sort of hear those at the same kind
of time or have had that opportunity to
have reviewed the the math and then
looked at the wish list. Like I'm just
thinking about could they be um looked
at as potentially being together in
terms of when quarterly we review them
>> and maybe we just [clears throat]
dedicate a cow meeting more specifically
to
>> and then we know that we're going to spend like at least 90
minutes and those are going to like
>> workshop. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Like that's sort of like the
workshop on on those days and that and
we do it that way because you know
sometimes it's like we have a light
meeting and we we're all full
[clears throat] of cake and goodness and
we're thinking actionless. Oh yeah,
these are all good actions. Let's try to
do something with them. But you know
what's the financial implication
sometimes of some of the things on the
action list? But just to me it just it
kind of makes it into a bundle and
that's that's a thing that you do that
night to make sure that you have the
discussion time. Mhm.
>> Well, and I think the other piece we can
roll into that is is that strategic
priority update. Yeah.
>> You know, we went over with the mayor
today on um we meet every month or so
and we went over sort of our what we
call our
>> uh sort of major projects list and and
we can sort of build that in and you
know here's here's sort of the bigger
picture of what's going on. here's where
we're spending our time and you know
where does some of these new ideas fit
in with sort of what's on the plate. So
you get that fuller picture of of where
we are financially where we're on our
you know our strategic priorities or you
know our our major projects and here are
some of the new things that people want
us to sort of deal with.
Counc,
>> I don't know if this is the same thing
you're saying or a separate thing I I'm
saying. Uh, but to me, I look at the
action report, which is a direction to
Kevin, and I would pull that particular
report into the city manager report
section of the agenda, and we would
provide his typical city managers uh
additionals that you write down. I'm not
asking for a report, but then this
report also becomes the basis of that
conversation, which we would then budget
more time for.
>> Yeah. Um, and it lives there because
it's our direction and where they are.
And sometimes there'll be things we want
to bring up because we've seen it over
and over and other times stuff's changed
and it becomes the basis for you to
reflect back what's changed, what's
coming off, why things are finished,
what new things were added. because I
think that you know while we know that
the city has work plans spread across
the board that when you're doing the
when staff is doing the work plan for um
city council in terms it's not like we
don't know when our meetings are and
that we that on that calendar you can
schedule um this is this is what happens
on four times a year right like and I
think it pulls it together and then we
don't scramble as much sometimes as when
are trying to figure out how everything
relates um together. And they could be a very informative um cow
meeting where there's just more freedom
of discussion without looking for
motions and and whatever.
>> Well, and one of the big things right
now is just just that consistency um
right finding spaces in our agenda. And
it's also just
we'll be somewhat subjective because at
the other side of October a different
group of people might want to so with
some hesitation. So let's just keep
being consistent in getting the report
out
>> getting those updates. We'll find that
space to have a better conversation and
another group might want to do something
different.
>> Yeah.
>> But it's just an idea that it's an idea
now that they can see in the minutes or
when they review this council meeting
that that you know
>> we did the first one tonight. We've got
the quarterly report and the
>> and we're doing action items. [laughter]
>> So, the last thing I want to go over
really quick and I'll take one minute to
do it is the difference between um a
notice of motion and the action item
>> twisting. So, is that okay with
everyone?
>> Um
so, a notice of motion is a mechanism
for a counselor to formally introduce
new council business. It requires
advanced written notice 10 days and
includes a proposed resolution. It is
designed to lead council towards
consideration
um considering the motion. An action
item is different. It is a mechanism for
council to capture and track matters for
possible future work. Um any an idea may
arise during a council meeting and
council may resolve to place that idea
on the action item listing. Um, however,
placing an item on the list does not
necessarily mean council is immediately
considering the full matter.
Okay. Um, the distinction is important
because a notice of motion primarily
governs council procedure while the
action item listing is primarily about
work planning, tracking, and protecting
staff resources.
Um so in practical terms a notice of
motion is a formal pathway to introduce
business for debate and decision and an
action item u matter is a tracking of
and a planning tool. It helps um council
identify matters it may want to revisit
while allowing staff to understand what
has been formally endorsed and what
remains for possible future
consideration.
That's it.
questions.
>> I have actually one. Sorry,
>> it's going back a bit because I thought
we were going to finish and then ask
questions, but
>> just be fast. What's the definition of
repetitive
uh letters that aren't included? And cuz
I just I see some of the like like for
example like a like a big thing that
everybody's very mobilized about
oftentimes it will turn into a form
letter and we'll get like 700 of them.
>> Is that what you're talking about or
not?
>> Yes.
>> That or so there's that is one topic one
kind of repetitive letter. So, form
letter or um somebody an individual will
keep on and they often do this um keep
on sending in correspondence to
different staff members
>> about the same
>> the same thing but looking for a
specific answer and maybe not getting it
or receiving an answer but not the
answer that they
>> in the former case the the form letter
thing like obviously we've seen that a
bunch over the years like and it's
actually like we we'll get a bunch of
those and then the room will fill. So,
it's something that I think like we are
getting at least one of those letters in
the
>> Yes.
>> in the thing. It's not that we don't
include it because it's a form letter.
We include one or two of them and then
the other seven.
>> I think we've seen that it was like
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> We get the number like multiple.
>> Yeah.
>> It's like ostriches.
>> Yes.
>> That's it. We got 50 of these same
>> 50 [clears throat]
six or seven in front of that number.
Time to Yes. Can I have a motion to uh
recess for dinner? By councelor Payne,
seconded by councelor Panero. All in
favor? That carries.
Councelor Tate, you'll join us again at
seven.
>> Okay. Thank
>> Yes, I will. Thank you. Okay.
>> Should I leave the meeting and rejoin or
should I just like go off? Do you close
the meeting for the recess?
You're on mute so I can't hear you if
you're replying to me.
>> Can you hear me?
>> Okay. You to um log off and then log
back in. She'll let you back in at
seven.
>> Okay. Thank you.
Sorry.
Yeah, it worked out.
>> Okay, welcome back everybody. If I could
have a motion to reconvene
by councelor Pero, seconded by councelor
Lockenberg. All those in favor? Opposed?
And that carries. So council, we are on
item number seven, the city manager's
verbal report. So over to you, Kevin.
Sure.
Um like I said, we did go over sort of
our major projects list with the mayor.
So maybe just briefly, um liquid waste
management plan is still in progress.
uh fourth main I think everyone's aware
we did get the 7 million for that
project and um we're in design for that
construction starts next year
uh fire master plan again we of course
have done the staffing this year uh for
that. Uh third party dispatch is going
well. Our overtime is down
significantly. So definitely way less on
that. Um [clears throat] we will be
bringing a parks operational plan to
council here hopefully within while
you're still here in this term. And
that's really looking at our you know
first of all what um [clears throat]
classifying our parks. Are they you know
parks that we want to maintain to a high
standard or
lack a better word, rule standard and
what what's the level of resourcing we
need and we just so council have a
chance to sort of make those uh service
level decisions. you know, we're
certainly hearing from our staff and
um and our supervisors that we're just
it's really difficult to maintain those
parks to a standard that we think uh
council would like to see them maintain
to. So, so be bringing that forward.
That will be really more of a budget
discussion ultimately.
um
garbage and recycling modernization.
I think you're aware that that was um
presented by Charlie Henderson back in
budget. We haven't made a ton of um
progress on there. Although Chris told
me today that he you know we did some
costing of of providing that service and
we've also gone to third parties to see
what the potential cost for a third
party provider. So, we'll be bringing
that again. That might be um
uh after the uh
election.
Um
soccer and uh the civic arena. feel
that's on the agenda tonight to look at
a policy of how we manage those until we
um the [clears throat] soccer we've done
some upgrades but again these old
buildings structurally are don't meet
the current building code um
what else we have
uh the Lakeside Drive bridge um that is scheduled to be uh uh replaced. It's
at end of life and we'll look at we are
looking at a two-lane bridge [cough]
access [clears throat] for that. Um so
this is one that we may look at a design
built and work to the industry of here's
what we need you
give us proposals of how you deliver
that.
Um,
NG911.
I think we're included.
>> I think October 28th is the date that
we've tenatively scheduled to go live on
that one.
» Pending successful testing with Telus,
but we're still progressing towards that
date.
>> Recreation review. Not quite sure where
that's kind of at these days. I know
we're trying to find a a date to
make that happen, get the parties
together.
As far as the park service, again, um
you know, this one, you know, we did ask
for more funding last year. We'll ask
for more funding again. And part of that
was to, you know, do that um have that
meeting and identify what
that level of of
service that's expected how that should
be uh shared between the partners. Uh
the good news is on the on the renewal
of the of the washroom facilities, the
bath houses there, there is a CBT grant
um that they created called SHORE, I
believe. Can't remember what the acronym
stands for. So we did get money for the
design part of that. First part is is to
do the uh redesign of that and I think
we got 30 or 40,000 which will cover
that cost of the design. And then
there's a uh after we do that then there
will be an opening for capital money and
I think up to 500,000. So that should
hopefully uh if we're successful address
that and I think the fact that they gave
us design money as they'll be open to
[clears throat] the capital side of it.
uh on the IT uh side uh we did do a uh
what we called the roadmap to really
look at our IT and how it's structured
and and um you know how we do things and
we we used a consultant for that and one
of the things they clearly identified
was you know needing that someone
dedicated to IT so we have hired an IT
manager that will manage the GIS as well
Uh so he's Chris doing that.
>> Yeah. I mean he's coming tonight um
because we have something in the in
camera that relates to him. So he'll be
here later tonight. We can introduce you
to him. His name's Adam Tero. So yeah.
>> Yeah. So he's really he's got that road
mapap for voluntarizing himself how we
do things here and and uh yeah we'll you
know get focused around how do we kind
of you know one of the big areas is we
need to look at how we
you know we have all these various
different pieces of software for
different um you know different
departments etc. want to standardize
more around some key software, GIS, um,
Office
365, etc. So, how do we use those key
tools or MS 365
and that relates to records management?
So, again, he's working with Sarah and
her team on what platform ultimately our
records reside on. uh GIS is I think
we're pretty well there with
transitioning the data from the RD to
our GIS system. I think, you know, we
just need to check with Adam and and
Greg whether we can give notice. You
know, the RD will be in budget pretty
soon, so I think they need to know
whether we're part of that this year or
not. So, we advance that.
Um [clears throat] facilities, uh
council spent a bunch of work on on
that. So, we're implementing that.
uh dam safety. Uh we're doing works both
uh for our uh water reservoir in the
station. Uh so a bunch of work there and
probably more um impactful is the
uh [clears throat] the Bonnington Falls
generating plant. we did down safe
review and there's significant um
potential cost to meet that those
standards. Um
but then Gisler and Blazy did similar
work for CBT on their all the dams that
uh CBT owns which are significantly
larger than ours. uh and um you know
definitely there's some strategies how
you manage that risk without spending
millions and millions of dollars to to
do that. We also raised that with the
minister and her staff when she was in
town that you know this you know
regulation has to meet the the risk not
just
everything and reduce every risk in the
world. It's just not attainable.
Um
and uh Dan and his team is also looking
at uh the generation renewal of um at
Bonnington Falls that you know those
assets are starting to get to end of
life and how do we approach that and
again millions of dollars if we um don't
do it in the right way. So uh so he's
talking to forest BC hydro and others
about how best utilize the water in the river. So [clears throat] those
are ongoing and you'll be seeing that or
the next council will be seeing that in the new year of of potential options
there. the five mile
uh supply line or small water line from
the intake up at um at the top of five
mile down to the station reservoir and
design there. Uh again, Dan's looked at
that and and feels that there's an
opportunity to generate some significant
um generation off off that line if we
design it in a way that create some uh
you know some head on that and so
the new uh we hired a new uh operations
manager and so he's he's tasked to work
with our
uh utility world utilities folks to you
know look at the design and see if we
can build in some generation into that
project.
Uh what else do we have?
Uh Ser College, the Pent Street campus,
uh the new lease is with the province.
Um we haven't heard, it hasn't been
signed yet, but they committed to
signing that for five years. So
hopefully that will be in place. We've
had some I know Sam has had some
meetings with their staff and got their
facility assessment report to really
prioritize where that money would um be
invested up there to uh renew that
facility. Uh 606 Victoria Street, the
old KSA uh we have signed the lease for
that. They have provided insurance. They
are um going to start programming um for
this fall. uh the uh ceramics I think
they have full contingent of 16 students
and and so they have a full program for
the year and I think the mayor shared
medal is really looking more at for
[clears throat] this year more at sort
of weekend shorter courses to start uh
so that's uh definitely in place
procurement I think we shared last time
that um we were not able to uh uh
recruit a uh purchasing or procurement
manager and we've gone to a third party
provider and and I think they're early
that's working well at this stage. Um
this is also losing purchasing clerk
there um by this December I think. So um
we'll be looking at replacing that
supports that.
>> Yeah, that posting's gone out. You might
have seen that
[clears throat]
>> union posting. So
>> yes,
>> did it go external?
>> Yeah, it went internal and external.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
And with uh again, I think we've
shared that um Rob [clears throat]
Nestrom, our long-term capital
uh projects manager, is retiring and
we've staffed up or we based her with a
new project
» [clears throat]
>> um manager and and kind of restructured
that department of how that how how we
deliver projects. And do you want to
comment on that?
>> Yeah, you know, this is something that
we work with council on. um you know
started uh a year and a bit ago uh a
year and a half ago two years ago where
we looked at how we we had been
delivering projects and how we wanted to
especially given the the sort of size of
our capital plan. So um bringing in an
Simon she came from the city of
Castlegar as their uh manager project
delivery hired her as ours. She already
lived in town, so uh she was happy to
not commute and happy for uh the
challenges that we have. And she's
working with Shannon McKinnon as a
project manager uh in their group
starting out delivering all the
projects, putting in that, you know, uh
real solid framework, project management
framework to just start, you know,
making sure that we're, you know, with
the amount of work that we have coming,
we really need to make sure that we're
tracking things appropriately so nothing
gets lost. and you know if somebody
happens to win the lottery and leave one
day there's a you know real clear um
trail someone else can just pick up the
project and as well we see a lot of
opportunities to share resources between
like us and Nelson Hydro right so if we
you know because project managers are
kind of modular if we end up having you
know um a few project managers five six
years from now with all the projects and
then we have slow project gets delayed
that we didn't anticipate then our
project manager might be able to go
deliver something for Nelson Hydro and
they were just short staffed at the time
or something like that. So the idea
being we'll all use this common project
management framework that will be
quarterbacked out of this project
management office. So yeah, really
looking forward to the opportunity. Uh
really going to miss Rob and all his
expertise and I'm sure we'll be buying
him coffee from time to time to find out
um you know what exactly went on uh
during you know X Y or Z. But um yeah,
looking forward to the opportunities
come along with uh a fresh team there
>> and [clears throat]
certly a succession planner.
I think Gab's going to give an update on
all the changes and you know he
presented earlier in the year of of the
planning work we've done and or what we
anticipate of retirements in the next
two to five years and um I think at
least 50% of that happened in two
months. So
believe um [clears throat] um that
change that we anticipated
um
yeah I think that's the
highlights of um yeah of some of those
uh projects that we've been uh working
on and and
um yeah so if there's any sort of
questions around any of those then happy
to to take those.
Yeah, I think the bottom line is
significant change and some significant
projects that we're we're advancing and
uh you know I think really align with
the strategic priorities that council
set.
» Okay, over to Mr. Johnson. You you get
your own line coming up so I'm not going
to you just so you Okay.
>> Oh,
>> and I I don't have much uh city manager
covered off most there. I just wanted to
say that um you know on the the grant
front uh there was a lot of um you know
press about the build Canada strong fund
that came out and they had the direct
impact stream and just to let council
know that um we have applied uh for this
building actually um we had to replace
the cooling to towers for AC and um the
first stream of Build Canada Strong fund
was looking for those uh shovel ready
projects and we felt perfectly in line.
We're just finishing up the design for
it. we had budgeted $1.2 million out of
our facilities fund that we all worked
together on to work the strategy out for
and council gave us direction. Um and so
yeah, it's possible that that you know
we have applied and hopefully we'll get
funding for that. But just wanted to
share that um as mentioned during those
facilities uh meetings around budget. We
will always be looking for opportunities
to capitalize on this and this one was a
great opportunity. So hopefully we're
successful. Um as well uh just a couple
other follow-ups. Um Nelson Cycling Club
had come in and asked for, you know,
additional support. Just to follow up,
we met with them up at um um Art Gibbons
Park uh where they uh have a project and
they've talked to CBT to get some
funding to redo uh their jump park in
there. And um we're able to offer a
bunch of inind service with helping them
get a a water supply up into the treated
areas to be able to water it down uh as
well as manage some of the drainage
issues that really impacts them. So um
had a really constructive meeting with
them up there. They're really excited
about the help that we can support with
there. So just to let council know that
you are uh supporting Nelson Club in
that way as well as uh I believe through
the RDCK they provide um some funding.
And then finally, uh, on the cycling,
uh, side of things, Knack Nelson area
cycling.
» Yeah. Uh, yeah. Um, Andrew Murray and
>> they plugged in those connections and
they were just, uh, looking to have the
city follow up and support those. So
just to provide followup that you know
those are on city land so you know they
are now ours. They're a good thing to
have that connection to the rail trail
and there was some concern about who
will take insurance and Nelson Cycling
Club was going to say we'll pay for the
insurance this year but the city you
should do it for after that and I mean
it's [snorts] on our land so it's
covered under our insurance anyways. So
just you know was again supporting Nact
and their initiatives and also you know
didn't require the the outlay of funds
from Nelson Cycling Club that they had
thought it might. So just small ways
that we are trying to help out based on
you know requests that come in and
requests uh that that we see. So
>> yeah sorry I just a [clears throat]
couple others when we're should have
mentioned about the CBT. So we will be
applying under that shore grant for the upgrades to the bathouses. Um
we're looking at applying under another
grant they're called it's called Gather.
It's to create gathering spaces or
improve gathering spaces in your
downtown. So, we've been looking at um
IOD Park in the Hall Street Plaza there.
How do we um you know, now that we know
how it's being used, how do we enhance
it to um you know, be that downtown
showcase for entertainment and and um
people can gather and have their lunch
and all those sorts of things. So, we're
looking at that. And finally, we're
looking at their I [clears throat] think
it's it's um
>> River Art or something.
>> Yeah. So, we're looking at that mosaic
on where the former bus station was to
do that wall in a mosaic um art piece uh
to celebrate the the the Columbia
[clears throat] River and the basin. So,
um so those are three exciting programs
that we think we have three uh solid
projects for. It's our question.
>> My hands up. Yeah,
>> thanks so much. Can you hear me? Okay.
>> Yeah. As we look at those downtown
spaces, one thing I think we threw
around at the table, but I'm not sure if
it ever landed and I was curious if it
made its way to a landing place, it has
to do with posters and like where is a
good place for posters and can we
actually have a a poster space that is
the actual space for posters. Um, one
thing we learn at the college is that
the students actually read the posters
and go to the things. And I think that can be true for other events in
town. And I was curious if that if
there's any opportunity with these um,
improvements to find a space for that.
>> Okay. No.
>> Yeah, we do have that one um, poster
>> um, she has in front of the restaurant
and um, I think it's about trying to
figure out managing it when it gets
>> really full because you're right. I
think people do have posters and they're
putting them up and you just reminded me
is that um thank you councelor Tate that
today when I was out on um Baker Street
I don't know did you notice this uh
councelor Panero that the Eagles Hall so
there was a project from Nelson Lake
Tourism to try to sort of beautify with
so many vacant buildings on Baker Street
the windows and to keep them from
becoming the poster hub um that The uh
the [clears throat] Eagles building now
has four um different uh lovely pictures
of the countryside. One is Ainsworth,
something is Nelson, there's one for
Caslo, and they're there to sort of
beautify the the windows,
>> right?
>> So that buildings don't look so,
>> you know, empty or that people aren't
using brown paper to cover the windows.
>> Yeah. So, if you get a chance to take a
look, that's the first I've noticed of
them and they've been, you know, going
out to the land owners to property
owners to to see if they want to
participate in that in that program. And
>> yeah, and I think the they're
[clears throat] looking at um doing some
type of art on the Nelson uh old Nelson
home furniture building.
>> Yeah, I've got to I'll be chasing that
down in September when I attend. And
I've got some meetings that I have to
attend that BCG I can have some
discussion with
>> because I asked for some mockup drawings
to be able to take with me of what we
could potentially put on those covered
windows.
>> Okay, I think that's it.
» Okay. So, moving on then. Were you
finished? Um,
>> okay. [clears throat]
>> Thank you. So, moving on. Number nine,
Nelson Cypical Theater Society waiver of
parking fees. So,
um we've had a request to wave parking.
The Nelson um Civic Theater Society is
renovating the Civic Theater, as we all
know, has requested exclusive use of 5
meter parking stalls on Vera Street for
its contractor. No on-site parking is
available. staff approved the use and
principal subject to the city's
temporary license of occupation policy.
The policy establishes an annual fee of
$1,200 per meter stall equivalent to
$100 per stall per month as the
contractor will pass this cost on to the
NCTS. NCTS is asking council to wave the
$5,500 fee for the 11-month construction
period.
So there's quite an extensive report
there council and there is um a
recommendation so open to any
discussion.
>> Can I just add um I think you saw in the
report that we estimate the loss of
revenue to be more in that $25,000
range. Um and the metered you know if
you get the metered rate it's about
5,000. So, it's already quite subsidized
for for projects like this.
In fact, they
>> [clears throat]
>> um
yeah,
sorry, I kind of caught him out of the
corner of my eye first, although I was
looking at you. So, I'm going to go
council Lockenberg, then I'm going to go
councelor Panero, and then I'm going
counselor Tate.
So, so like you said, it's it's much
more than 5,500
um lost revenue. The is it normal for a
project like that? like I could see how
you would use maybe some of the parking
for materials and stuff like that, but
like I couldn't like have we had other
experience with other projects where the
contractors are kind of in part of the
time and then out and kind of cycling
through a little bit more like do they
>> is it more convenience or it's pretty
much they need it like no question.
Yeah, I think you know efficiently
getting things to sight and and you know
we have I think the report does speak to
we have given them some stalls behind
the building
>> 10 spots behind the
>> and [clears throat] we waved the fees on those ones. Um but the access is
through the front of the building. It's
not through the back. So workers can
park there that are working there for
the day. But if you're you know running
parts back and forth or whatever it's
Yeah, you have to be be.
>> Yeah. Okay. I guess that that's what I
was trying to just get clear on. Is it
more of a convenience thing for like if
you're going to work there and you're
bringing your tools in? For sure. But if
it's constant through the day, then I
can see it.
>> Yeah. This we've got those stalls for
people that are, you know, have to come
and work there all day. Uh this is for
those folks that would be coming and
going. Um, and so materials, you're
>> coming in the trade's coming in for a
day or two and they got their tools in
their van and they're running to and fro
>> and they're parts are in their van that
[clears throat]
>> we experienced the same thing when we
did the project there that we needed
that closer access. Yeah, we had bulk
parking out back and that
>> Okay. Okay. Thanks.
>> Um, I've got you on the list, Councelor
Panero.
>> Uh, just the wording here like this
$49,280
in expected
that's not guaranteed by any means. It's
just what we think might happen.
>> Well, we use what we average on a meter
>> in that area. So that doesn't mean the
meter's plugged every second for, you
know, a month straight. We recognize
that they're not going to be always
full. So that's an average.
>> It's not its max potential. That's an
average. I see.
>> And then if they're asking just for this
$5,500. So even if they paid the $5,500,
we're still
>> potentially losing revenue,
>> potentially losing $44,000.
>> And part of the impact is other
businesses in that area. People choose
if they can't find parking to go
somewhere else, right? Unfortunately, we
[cough] have these two [clears throat]
large projects that are going on side by
side, right? So, it's really putting
pressure on that whole block or that
whole section of Vernon Street there.
[clears throat]
>> Do we know when uh some of the parking
on the other side of Vernon would open
up?
>> Another year,
>> much longer here.
>> So, fortunately, they're back doing work
in that building. Um, and it's been
refinanced. So, our expectation, they
paid us all the money that they owed us.
So our expectation is that they weren't
going to you know they wouldn't have
done that if they if they weren't
proceeding with the project. So that's
yeah Mike I don't know if you have any
sense but yeah it's definitely a year
long year longer to you know to
get that building built.
So yeah it's really unfortunate that and we had that same issue that you
know when we did our project. So,
there's been a lot of not a lot of
parking available down there.
>> And I I read this a couple days ago, but
was there other parking in the back
somewhere?
>> Yeah, they get 10 spots in the curling
club against the curling city.
>> That's for your laborers that show up
and, you know, start at 8 and finish at
4:30, right? And whereas you have the
trades coming in and out and everything
that
>> you know if you have the you know HVAC
people coming in or mechanical or the
electrical and
>> they run down to their van and you know
they got all their tools and supplies on board right so
>> is there any way of splitting the
difference or like
>> some as much as you council chooses you
like giving them I don't know what makes sense is it like
they had two stalls.
instead of five.
>> Yeah. I don't know if it's
>> I think they would
>> I think what we've heard from them, they
need five stalls to make this.
>> So, I don't think it's it's the number.
They'll pay the 5,000 if they if that's
the decision.
>> Oh, I need a bit more lay down area,
too. I could see them.
>> Uh they seem to be happy with their
layown area. They were really great to
work with, right?
>> Yeah. They don't have the
>> they don't have the big steel components
that we were dealing with and
>> you know the scaffolding a lot of it's
there. So
>> yeah sort of you know different jobs
they're doing but
um
yeah it's I would agree with city
manager it's five spots that they need.
five spots.
>> Councelor Tate.
>> Thanks. Yeah thanks. It takes me a
second to find the right buttons. Um I
I'm a little bit confused because I
thought there's not a lot of parking
straight in front of the like where you
go into the Civic because of the bus and
then the seniors parking. Can you just
speak to like how many spots would be
left for other humans to come and go on
that block once you take away I think
there's a bunch that are also reserved
for seniors which maybe you could speak
to that and just help me understand the
lay of the land there please.
>> Yeah. So the cross the street.
>> Seniors
when there's no construction have those
stalls right in front of the senior
center. Um so we have gymnastics
>> while construction has happened. Uh
we've given them an equivalent number of
stalls across the street. Uh so there's
five that are taken up there. Uh I think
the ones that they would be looking at
would be similar to the ones we had
which would be to the
>> [clears throat]
>> uh east I guess of of the civic center.
So um up the street the five that are closest to the I guess the entrance
to the
>> [clears throat]
>> um
>> gymnastics.
>> Well the yeah gymnastics and
>> yeah so that's [clears throat] I think
those are the five that would be
available for for their project.
>> Okay can I can I say it back to you? So
the spaces that are directly in front of
the senior center that are normally for
seniors, these are the ones that we're
looking at setting aside for this
construction or that has been requested
to have the fees waved on. And um during
this time, the reserve spaces have gone
across the street and what and then the
other five spaces to the east. Sorry, I got lost in the three-way swap there.
Can you say it again?
>> Can I try swing out sitting on her?
Sure.
>> Yeah, thanks. the the seniors because
the senior spots were in front of
gymnastics, the five reserved, right?
Pre- any jobs, right? So, that's
ultimately the place where construction
would be going or construction vehicles
would be going is in those nearest
spots. Now, it's a bit weird because the
seniors when they had those spots, they
were never metered, right? They were
just expanded down that curb. So,
they'll be slotting in there. The
seniors have now gone directly across
the street from the seniors center on
the co-op side where they have the five
spots now. So, bit of a shell game
there.
>> Um, and that's what we did when we cuz
of the bigger components in our job, we
had to hoard out the whole sidewalk. Um,
and so then the seniors needed access.
So we put them across from the senior
center and built that, you know,
crosswalk across the road and the
boulevard there. And so we've just gone
back to that setting for this project.
[clears throat] So the metered spots are
taken up by the seniors and we're going
to use theirs. So they would have to pay
for the equivalent. Even though these
spots aren't metered, they would be
paying
>> Yeah. their spots or the equivalent
metered spots because
>> so the seniors are paying that that fee
>> to have those reserved.
>> No, [clears throat]
seniors used to have no fee spots their
building.
>> We've given them metered spots across
the street. Uh so I think the
construction folks would use the senior
spaces and we're losing revenue on those
five meters across the streets. So
that's what we charge the contractor.
>> So with the seniors reserved parking
moved across the street, they not only
is it the five spots, it's also no pay.
So that no pay has been maintained in
the transition across the street
>> and we would recover that by charging
the contractor for you know for those
you know assume you know treating them
as metered spots even those.
>> Gotcha. Okay.
>> As
>> I'm with you. Thank you. It's kind of a
shell game. You know, we're losing
revenue from the seniors because they're
not in their space. Uh so we charge the
contractor for equivalent metered
spaces.
» Councelor Tate, do you have another
followup?
>> She's shaking her head now.
>> No. Okay. Councelor Paige,
>> maybe a couple questions. Um, when we
were doing our project, did we pay
ourselves or did we charge that out?
Those five stalls that we used while we
were doing the project oursel doing the
roof.
>> I don't know if we were eligible to
charge it to the project because that
was grant funded.
>> Okay. I'm
>> didn't charge the parking there
>> because it's an improvement on our own
building. I'm a bit sympathetic to to
letting the fee part slide because we're
getting the benefit of the improvement
to the building as a broader piece and
they still have a lot of fundraising
left to do. Uh the other piece is are we
able,
you know, without
stirring a pot with the seniors and
recognizing the value of their parking
able to add a criteria to that parking
that it's also good for handicapped.
We've had some disability concerns with
those across. We have multiple medical
clinics in that area and it it seems
like they're exclusive use for seniors
might not be
we probably could add an accompanying
criteria.
>> Yeah, we are going to look at hours like
there's [clears throat] no point if
seniors aren't in the senior center for
until 11:00 that you know nobody else
can park in there. So, we're going to
look at some of the hours to kind of
maybe make that more workable
recognizing the the existing, but we can
certainly talk about
>> seniors and handicap.
>> Yeah.
>> Um,
>> and did we not Sorry, I just want to
follow up on you asking it. Did we not
make one of those parking spots a
disabled spot? one of the I've did we
not make a disabled spot on
>> I don't believe the seniors
>> side
>> on the senior's locations
>> on that side of the street we didn't put
in a disabled parking spot
>> there is around the medical associates
clinic there
>> yeah but not one on the co-op side
>> okay thank you
>> I think those two can piggy back um so
that's just where I said I for $5,000 an
improvement to one of our own buildings
if we were doing the project we wouldn't
necessarily be costing it out to a
grandfather you're all for all those
reasons I I'm okay with pushing the
revenue if other people are
want to make
>> so you want to make a motion then
>> I'll make that motion to approve the
request
>> I think that's one of the options
>> yeah approve
>> so then you change deny to approve
[clears throat]
» seconder
And is there a second here?
>> I can second. Um
move
>> by councelor Paige, seconded by
councelor Lenberg.
>> Um so just just to be clear here, what
we're talking about is not the mechanics
of parking or anything like that.
Really, it's the issue is a subsidy for
the NCTS. That's that's the issue. or do
we want to subsidize them an additional
5,500 on top of the effective subsidy of
$44,000.
Um
and um I'm assuming like I it's not
included in the package that I saw where
what the status of their um fundraising
is right now, but I'm assuming that
this is pretty significant for them. Did they do they know about it? Some of these things might catch you by
surprise. you build a fundraising plan
and then you're like, "Ah, we didn't
think about the fact that we need this
parking and have to pay and that can
really throw a throw them a bit for a
loop." Is that the case? Do we know
that?
>> I don't know what you know how if this
was picked up in the general conditions
of the contractor when they uh set their
budget, but yeah, they still have a
fairly significant shortfall. I know
they're been asked to um submit on uh
one of the Build Canada uh programs. So,
I know they're doing that and that could
be
>> uh make a big change, but again, we have
a line of credit with them that we're
hoping that they can
>> repay uh fairly quickly. So, um yeah,
they get that large grant, then
hopefully they that allows them to repay
that that line of credit.
>> Yeah. Yeah. as far Yeah. As far as the
like a project process, right? You work
with your, you know, your team as you go
into the construction process and
>> in theory, these things are understood.
All your costs are understood and
they're accounted for in your your
project costing.
>> Yeah.
>> To city manager's point, you know, under
this exact line item that was in there
or not, not sure. But yeah, it would be
an expectation.
>> It would be an expectation that it would
>> that it would be that you would address
that. So that's where I'm a little
uncomfortable with the motion on the
table because I don't like this like
trying to, you know, grab every
opportunity for us to squeeze in another
fundraising. Well, having said that, I
am really sympathetic to the fact that
they've got a dis difficult task of
fundraising and and that they're, you
know, there's some paid staff, there's a
lot of volunteers that are working on
this and that some of these things might
catch them by surprise. Doesn't sound
like this is would have likely caught
them by surprise.
>> Say that this was something they weren't
anticipating.
>> Yeah, this is in in my mind this would
only be really justified if it caught
them by surprise. If it was just like,
hey, here's another opportunity to make
another request. This is probably not
the appropriate way to do that. I would
prefer to be evaluating it as an
additional subsidy like your or
additional grant that the city's
providing. That's how I would prefer to
receive this. Um the fact that we're I I
didn't the other thing that's not
totally clear, but I think you clarified
in your remarks was the 49,280 which is
the the averaged amount we would have
made revenue on those meters over those
11 months. But anybody could have
purchased these same spots for $5,500.
>> Wow. If you have a construction project.
>> If you have a construction project.
>> Yeah.
>> So, in that sense, we aren't
subsidizing. I just want to be clear in
my own mind. This is we're not already
subsidizing them because we would have
done this for a private entity as well.
So,
>> you know, that's where I'm kind of
wrestling with with this. Like,
you know, this is legit. the the 5500 in
my mind is not that relatively not that
much, but to us it is something
[clears throat] we want to nickel and
dime as much as we can to protect the
taxpayer. But this is a tough job that
they're doing to to raise this money.
And I think god if if you keep getting
hit by these kind of surprises, it can
really slow your momentum to to raise
the cash. So that's where I was
sympathetic to the motion
and having heard what um
uh Johnson Chris what's your title
general manager Johnson [laughter]
whatever
>> general manager community
etc [clears throat] etc. We don't we
don't have we don't have a meeting
that's long enough for you to talk about
what it's titled Chris
>> H. Yeah. I'm going to
Yeah. I mean it's only 500. So I'm going
to say I'm leaning towards a yes because
I sympathize with what they're trying to
do.
>> Okay. So we've got a motion that's been
moved and seconded. Is there any further
discussion? Does anybody else have
anything that they want to say or add or
council Panero? I just sort of I
appreciated the point that was made by
counselor Paige and that we were getting
eventually we were getting a building
that functions and that is worth a lot
more than 5,500 bucks. Um and also
recognizing that this process has been
extremely long and painful for I think
everybody involved on both ends of the
spectrum. So getting it if this I don't
know how much of a difference this makes
to them or to us or to anybody but if it helps get this over the line
faster which then helps them you know
start paying off their debts and
functioning as as what it's supposed to
be as an asset in the community. It
seems like not that big a deal to me.
I'm sympathetic towards it as well.
I have a quick question. Thanks. Um,
yeah, thanks for the comments. I am
curious what other
semi-standard city fees that should be
embedded in the overall project
construction cost could come up as a
letter of, oh, could you wave this,
please? I'm thinking just off the top of
my head like a hydro connection or those
sorts of things like what other um I'm
just curious about setting a precedent
and whether we have any kind of um
benchmarks for saying yes or no besides
that we empathize with the fact that
it's a big project and that in the end
the city gets the benefit of a working
building. U which are really great
points but I was curious what else we
could potentially have as an another
ask.
Well, there's obviously [clears throat]
um you know the building permit fee um
hydro connections. Uh I don't I don't
think they have any hydro upgrades. I
think that I think they're we had three
phase in that building already. I don't
think there's any utility fees that
probably building permit fee which I
think they've already paid.
» What was that last one?
>> Building permit fee.
>> Building permit fees. I heard
>> something else.
So, we don't anticipate any further
ones?
>> No, like I said, there's service is is
fine. Um, yeah, I don't I don't think
there's any there's no new connections
or anything. It's they're just
renovating existing space.
» Thank you.
>> Okay. So, the only thing I would just
like to add is that I would ask that um
city staff do have a serious
conversation with um seniors um
>> group about their requirement to have um
five spots. maybe they'd like to
>> sure
>> go down to for as to be supporting of
this project that's um going on
and um whether or not we can look at
time to make sure because I drive by
those spots fairly frequently. I drive
downtown that's I have a little route
takes me down Vic Ferin Street when I
come to town and they're often empty.
So, if I've got the 9:00 a.m. doctor's
appointment at the medical clinic and
everything's full, because we we we know
because we've seen online submissions
about people concerned about parking
that do have businesses down there and
such that that if you're not there at 9,
then somebody could be like, I mean, a
doctor's appointment these days is what,
four and a half minutes. Um,
and uh, you know, you're not you're not
there for for two or three hours. So, um
I think that if we can look at some some
work there
>> flexibility.
>> Yeah. Anyways, this has been moved and
seconded. Um all those in favor
and that Thank you, Kate. Got that.
Thank you everybody. So, that carries.
Thank you everybody.
Okay, moving on to
um bylaws.
Oil 11A is the step code in zero carbon.
I'd just like to just note that
councelor Payne has returned to the um
meeting at 7:47. Um staff are proposing
amendments to the city of Nelson
building bylaw number 3456
2019 to adopt higher performance
requirements for part 9 buildings,
generally lowrise residential and small
buildings under the BC energy step code
and the BC zero carbon step code.
Following council's direction at second
reading, the proposed memo was revised
to require zero carbon EL4 to be
effective December 31st, 2026, replacing
the previous proposed phased
implementation as well as moving to step
four for part 9 buildings. Council
provided third reading at the July 21st
special meeting and is now being asked
to adopt building bylaw amendment energy
step code step 4 plus zerocarbon EL4
bylaw number 3654
2026 effective December 31st 2026. So
council there's quite a bit of
information again in your package here
tonight and we have discussed this um at
two previous minutes. This has been part
of our Nelson next um advocate advocacy
and part of our strategic plan. Um is
there a mover moved by C
[laughter]
>> and second by councelor Tate?
>> Um is there any need for further
discussion councilors?
>> Mayor maybe I'll just take this
opportunity. I'm not sure that all of
councils have the opportunity to meet
Mike Cohen, one of our building
officials as it might been around. Okay,
my apologies. Thanks, Chris.
>> Yeah, just making sure.
>> Yeah. Okay. I missed that meeting. Yeah.
Fair.
>> Oh,
>> that's why.
>> Yeah, he was the original.
>> Yeah, the original.
>> Yeah.
>> Anyways, thank you for being here today.
>> Um, so seeing no further questions or
comments. Um, and it's been moved and
seconded that council pass the following
resolutions. that the corporation city
of Nelson bylaw building amendment
energy step code step 4 and zerocarbon
EL4 bylaw number 36542026
be finally adopted. All those in favor
and thank you councelor Tate and opposed
and that carries.
Okay, moving on to 11B
the cemetery
>> cemetery management bylaw and fees. So,
the proposed Nelson Cemetery Management
bylaw modernization modernizes the
city's regulatory framework to reflect
current operating practices, legislative
requirements, and long-term financial
sustainability. The bylaw supports
improved administration of cemetery
services while updating the fee
structure to better align with current
operating costs and council's decision
to increase cost recovery for cemetery
operations. Council is being asked to
adopt the proposed Nelson Cemetery
Management bylaw and the accompanying
amendment to the fees and charges bylaw
to implement the updated regulatory and
fee framework. So, councelor, just to
remind you, we had um an independent
contractor [snorts] come and give us
some thoughts about our cemetery moving
forward. and we've had a number of
follow-up meetings regarding changes to
how we operate the cemetery as well as
the need for improvements on our cost
recovery.
So, we have two recommendations there
that I think we need to pass separately.
Yes. Thank you. Um, [clears throat] so
does anybody want to move the first
recommendation? Councelor Lochenberg,
seconded by Councelor Tate. Council
Octberg,
>> you'd like me to read it?
>> Yeah, please.
>> Okay.
Um, that the Nelson Cemetery Management
bylaw number 3668 2026 be finally
adopted.
>> Councilor, is there any further
discussion on this issue?
» See, I Oh, I just have a question, but
it can go after the vote or before the
vote. It's probably more appropriate
before the vote.
>> For the vote.
>> You may not sway the vote. I was just
curious because I'm in Suriri at a
funeral today at a very large um
cemetery um and I noticed that the um
cemetery grounds were adhering to the
water restrictions and the grass was
very very yellow and I was just curious
um do we do um how does the watering
with respect to restrictions go at our
cemetery and and how do those things
align?
>> Yeah, we operate off a well there so
it's not part of the distribution
system.
Yeah. So, it stays a little bit greener
because we're not using potable water.
Anyways, so
>> thank you.
>> No further questions or
concerns. All those in favor of the
motion.
One, two, I need three hands. Four
hands. Okay, that carries. Anybody
opposed?
You know, just on that point,
[clears throat] maybe we should look at
how we tell that story because we've
taken a lot of opportunity to make sure
we're not using potable water and, you
know, watering playing fields, watering,
you know, the cemetery and some other
spaces. And the general public probably
doesn't realize that. They go up to the
cemetery and
>> ask that same question. Why is the city
using a bunch of water [clears throat]
and telling me not to water my lawn?
We've, you know, strategically made sure
that it wasn't affecting our water
>> system
>> and something that we've discussed with
communications to make sure is out there
just because that certainly has come
before, but it's a great opportunity to
say it here loud loudly and
>> like a little like a little thought
bubble. Did you know?
>> Well, you know, one of those story
boards might we add those up there,
right? And do we not take the water from
the well for the flower watering?
>> We have a stand pipe. I'm not sure if
we're using that the way we did in the
past. Maybe we can check that. And we
>> for flower watering.
>> We had a stand pipe down coming off the
lake that we could
>> Yeah, it comes from somewhere else to
water the plants.
>> We actually could fill up our truck to
water.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if they still are
or I
>> Yeah, depends on their circuit and
probably what makes
>> Yeah.
>> most little sense cuz I think there's
one down at the public works yard, too.
» So, okay. So, that's been that one's
been moved, seconded, and passed. And
then moving on to the fees and charges.
Is there somebody that wants to move it?
Councelor Tate. Secondary councelor
Loctenberg. Councelor Tate, give it a
read.
>> Yeah, I'm ready. I'm I'm doing all the
buttons here. Uh that the Nelson fees
and charges amendment cemetery fees
bylaw number 3669 be finally adopted.
>> So, last opportunity, council, any
questions or concerns regarding that?
Seeing nobody putting their hand up. All
those in favor
and opposed. And that carries. Thank you
very much.
Moving on to we get to finally hear from
Chris Jury, our CFO. So, the chief
financial officer is going to provide a
quarter 2 financial update to council.
>> Yeah. So, um I don't have a presentation
per se, but I'll go through the document
you have in front of you that's um eight
pages, but the, you know, the first page
is just that first RFD page. Um what a
couple things that we included this time
that we hadn't before um is a one-page
um Q2 update from Nelson Hydro. So,
that's kind of at the back end of that.
uh one of the
uh positives, one of the many positives
that's come out of bringing in an IT
manager and I think uh we pointed out
Mike that was at the back of the room
and I see Adam Tero's here as well. He's
our new manager of IT and he'll be
presenting later in the evening, but you
can recognize him at the back of the
room there. Um, one of the uh, positives
of bringing him in is to focus on the IT
side of things which allowed um, our
part-time Nelson Hydro, part-time IT
manager to focus more on hydro. So, one
of the things he's providing to us now
is a bit more of a focused update from
Nelson Hydro. So you see that each
quarter from this point forward that he
can bring that in and he's doing a lot
of work with Nelson Hydro doing more
frequent uh forecasting with them and
really trying to dial in their budgeting
process. So I think um that's all great
that he's able to allocate a bit more
time to that. So this is one of the the
things you'll see from him. Um, so
starting kind of on that first page
there, um, where it says Q2 financial
update 2026,
overall position at June 30th, the city
remains in a strong financial position.
Revenues are at 64% of annual budget and
expenses at 48%.
Um, I just sort of caveat that a little
bit on both the revenue and expense
side. you know, we have a lot of revenue
sources that are very front-loaded that
will get our taxes and water and sewer
fees all at the beginning of the year.
So, we expect that to be on the the
higher end. Um, and flip side on the
expenses, you know, we do have
collective agreements that will bring in
a wage increase at that midway point in
the year. So, we would expect to be
under 50% um, you know, for the most
part for our expenses. Um, but you know,
there's other expenses that are heavier
in the front part of the year and some
in the later half. So, it's more of on
the expense side, it's just more of a a
guideline, a check-in, but sort of
comparing to where we were this time
last year is a good uh gauge.
So, if we uh flip over to the revenue
side, I'll just kind of focus in that's
on the third page on a few of the the
revenue variances and um highlights. uh
overall revenue as I mentioned is at
that 64% point. Um you know some of
those areas that are trending higher
than 50% sale of services is at 54%. It
was at 51 last year this time. Um same
as other revenue at 62% versus 56% this
time last year. Some of the big drivers
in there um I see parking coin is up
about $100,000 from this time last year.
And some of that could be related to
timing of when we um you know pull the
coins out of the meters, when we send
them down to get counted and come back,
but not to the tune of 100,000. So, it's
definitely on the positive side of
things. Uh 21% of our parking revenue is
coming from pay by phone. I thought that
would be an interesting metric. We just
started um this year really dialing in
how we're recording that. So, I don't
have a comparison for you from last
year, but we will now going forward. So,
we can kind of look at that 21% and see
how that's um I would expect growing
over time.
Um police have some uh grants and
special project revenues that have come
in um for some of the things they're
working on with the province. Some of
special investigations.
Um so that's brought in some revenue
that's helped offset some of their
overtime costs and additional labor
costs. So we'll kind of see that when we
look at the expense side of things.
Building permits are up uh 200,000 from
this time last year. Um and some of our
internal charges as well. If you recall,
we increased uh the rental fees that we
collect down at public works for transit
and Nelson Hydro to account for the new
office space that we created there. So
that's bringing in some additional
internal revenue, though they are funded
by other sources, hydro and BC transit.
Um yeah, other than that, tax revenues
where we expect it to be. Water and
sewer fees are at 101% of budget uh due
to growth. Oh jeez. Just got to remember
to go to the council meeting tonight.
[laughter]
>> You're late.
» Stay awake. [laughter]
>> This is where you goes
in my pocket every 10 minutes. Um and uh
Nelson Hydro sales are at 49% near the
midpoint uh slightly below 51% that we'd
seen in prior years. Um and again we can
sort of look at that one page report
from uh Nelson Hydro, but that's you
know almost entirely just due to
weather. You have milder
>> uh winter milder spring then then you're
going to see decreases in revenues but
correspondingly we also have a decrease
in power purchase costs. So those go
hand in hand.
Um, flipping over to the expense side of
things, um, total expenses as I
mentioned at 48%
uh, versus 47% at Q2 2025. So very close
to how they were last year. Uh,
protective services is at 48%. This is
below 50% but um, is higher than last
year's pace which was at 45%.
So, primarily looking at, you know,
police wages are higher than they were
at this time last year. I did mention,
you know, they do have some special
project funding they've used to um they
did have some additional overtime and uh
they do have some grant funding that's
um funding one of their positions um
this year. So, uh you know, there's some
corresponding revenue and expense side
of things there. Um but that's one area
of of focus that I think we'll uh we'll
be watching. I do have a budget meeting
set up for them tomorrow. So, we'll go
through a few of those things and and
start looking at 2027.
[snorts] Uh transportation services is
at 46%.
Uh you know, that's above the 42% we
were at last year. Uh again, if you
recall, we reduced the snow removal
budget this year by $90,000 and shifted
that into parks and into our utilities.
So, it's expected that you'd see that
trending on the higher side.
Um, sewer operations is one that is
probably the clearest operating pressure
that we're seeing and will have a bit of
an impact on how we budget for 2027.
Um, this is largely just due to
additional repairs, maintenance, and um
unforeseen [clears throat] um spending
down at the sewage treatment plant. So,
um, you know, as we're, you know,
building out our plan, we see equipment
failures that are happening earlier than
we would have expected. Um, so we're
having to replace some of the equipment
and parts and things down there to to
kind of keep things going. Um, I think
it's important to note that, um, you
know, the current sewage treatment plant
is expected to last another 6 to 8
years. But I think um what I'm seeing is
that the staff are really doing a good
job of taking that kind of practical
life cycle approach to repairing. So
they're looking at used parts and
refurbished parts and just making sure
that we're not investing in something
that's going to have a much longer life
than the actual plant itself. So really
taking a pragmatic approach to it all.
Um but yes, still there's there's
failures and things that happen. So, um,
that's kind of where we're at. Um,
as far as just keeping that going while
we replace [snorts] it.
Uh, water operations is favorable at 46%
compared to last year. That was a
challenge for us. We were at 54% last
year. The crews focused a lot more on
capital works this year as opposed to
operating repairs and maintenance. Um,
you know, doing the Josephine um project
at the beginning of the year. So, um,
we're seeing less pressure on the
operating side.
And, uh, mentioned Nelson Hydro a little
bit as well. Um, they're slightly above the midpoint, but they're below
the 54% we saw last year. And that's
again the corresponding decrease in
power purchase costs. uh but they do
have additional pressures in some of the
other operating and maintenance
expenditures but in overall uh trending
to come in under budget for operations
maintenance and power purchases.
That's it for the revenue and expense.
Um and I know that during the city
>> library you're not even
>> Yeah. Well, I haven't got there yet. I
was going to kind of go Yeah.
>> Last line of capital piece here. Um, so
the city manager did a good job in the
verbal update of touching on quite a few
of the projects um on the go. We've
listed most of them here, sort of those
major projects, where they're at in the
timeline as far as you know, had we just
started, are we on budget, are we
substantially complete? A couple of the
areas to um that you know staff and
myself are are keeping an eye on are the
city hall office elevator sort of
cooling tower projects. Um cooling tower
hasn't started yet. Just in the design
phase of that but as far as the elevator
I think one of them is completed.
Budgetwise we're looking a little over
budget on that project. Um I think last
check was about trending forecasting
about 60,000 over budget which would be
6% [clears throat] of the total elevator
project budget mainly due to additional
fire alarm and electrical requirements
that um came in higher than expected. Uh
so we're looking for cost savings in
other areas of the facilities plan to
try and keep us all on side there. Um,
the IT hardware.
>> Sorry.
>> What do people think of our new new
color elevators?
>> I gotta be honest, it took me a while to
I felt something's different here.
[laughter]
>> Inside the elevator.
>> Oh, no. At the end of the hallways,
either end of the hall is painted green
now.
>> Let you know that you're at the city of
Nelson, I guess. Yeah.
>> Well, yeah,
>> there was.
>> Nobody's noticed that. [laughter]
>> I noticed
>> patchy portions from the old signs that
had been ripped out. They're pretty
>> rough shots. So,
>> yeah. And and [snorts] the new elevators
look pretty pretty sharp. They're all,
>> you know, the just even the the facing
on the the wall is so
>> much more modern and new.
>> Take a look.
>> Yeah.
>> I don't know if I want to mention it,
but I feel like I walked through the
door and the elevator opened and I was
like, "Is this
>> Yeah, [laughter]
>> that open cuz I came through the door.
It's your birthday."
>> Yeah.
>> Set that up for you. That's fine. That's
fine. That makes sense.
» Um, yep. So, that's the city hall
projects. Uh, on the IT front, hardware
replacements. Uh, we did have that core
infrastructure replacement at the
beginning of the year that we um sent
notification to all of council about uh
wanting to put in an order quickly
before prices escalated. Um, we don't
have any more major purchases lined up
for the rest of the year. So, uh, most
of that happened at in the first
quarter. Um,
wastewater treatment plant, I mentioned
some of the operating and capital, um,
pressures that they're feeling there.
That will likely feed into the 2027
budget and how we kind of look at, um,
forecasting and, uh, planning that out
for what that looks like over the next
few years.
Uh, NG 911, we mentioned an October 28th
go live date. Uh that's a 100% grant-f
funed project and that one's coming in
well under budget so that's positive.
Um there's some other major projects
there too. Yeah.
>> So when you have a grant to do the work
and it comes in under budget, do you get
to keep the money?
>> You do not. [clears throat]
>> That'd be a good deal.
>> I [laughter] was going to say
>> Yeah. It' be nice if they instead.
>> Is there something else that we could
Yeah,
>> we do encourage you to [laughter]
>> There must be [clears throat] some other
part of that project we could
>> No, they're actually pretty good. like
they're as you know on the civic project
um both
>> I remember that that's what I asked
>> but NG 911 I think they've been [snorts]
you know really good in terms of the
scope of what they've covered so um if
we're under budget we're quite happy to
send you
>> okay
>> you're happy I'm happy
>> yeah um so they upfront funded 50% of
the grant and we've worked through that
and now we're working into you know a
point where we'll have additional
expenditures and then we'll ask for that
to get funded. So, we won't be returning
any money, but we just might not be
entitled to the full the full amount of
grant funds.
>> Trying to We're trying to help the
province out where we can. [snorts]
[clears throat]
>> Uh yeah, so there's other projects on
here listed mainly for facilities,
transportation, equipment, um purchases.
you know, we've got a retiring um fleet
manager who's been very active in making
sure that we've got all our procurements
done before he leaves. So, had quite a
few of those over the last couple
months. Uh water and sewer projects are
in budget. And um yeah, I guess just as
sort of closing for overall for the city
portion of this, you know, at the
halfway point, um operating results are
generally consistent with expectations.
um you know there's always going to be
timing differences as far as revenue and
expenditures but uh we're continuing to
monitor sort of those um areas I
highlighted the sewer maintenance uh
protective services hydro sales again
there's we can monitor but there's not a
lot of control we have over that um and
then some of these capital projects that
are you know trending a little on the
higher side we'll we'll try and look for
savings in other areas of the capital
budget to offset Yeah,
>> I'm just curious how we can be on budget
with sewer main upgrades when we have
the, you know, CP rail surprise.
>> Well, we did add some additional
we added that extra amount that we
talked about.
>> We were able to add that on budget.
>> Finalized the budget and the Josephine
project came in on budget. So, we did
quite well on that piece.
>> Thank you.
>> Um, so Yep. So then there's the hydro uh
report as well. I think I've sort of
touched on a few of those pieces. So I
didn't have um much uh to kind of add to
that. Uh like I say, it's revenue and
power purchases, some of the plant
maintenance um expenditures as well.
again, Nathan Russ, the our finance
manager, who's spending time with Nelson
Hydro, along with Dan Gesler, the um
general manager there, um doing a really
good job of working together and trying
to um really dial in the budgeting
process and and do a great job of
forecasting future years so that they
can that'll inform uh future budgets.
So, it's good to have that additional
resource.
And yeah, as um as you mentioned there
um Council Payne, we uh reached out to
the library as well to see if they could
provide a midyear report. Um they do one
quarterly, I think, for the library
board. So you may see that I don't know
how the flow works if you actually see
that in your council package as well,
but um I thought this was a nice um kind
of halfyear check-in with the library to
see where they're at with things. And
I'll continue to have them provide this
each year. They'll provide a end of year
of course when they come and present
their budget, but having that midyear I
think is kind of nice way to stay in
connection with how things are going
there. Um yeah,
>> councelor P.
>> Can I I just want to go back to um
Nelson Hydro with major storms. Yes.
>> So what you're saying is currently um
they're over budget in that area
>> due to several major storms that we had.
But the [clears throat]
you talk about the rural storm budget
being over is the urban storm budget in
the same position or has it mainly been
the rural that's been
>> yeah they're the most impacted. We don't you know have nearly the impact
here for urban.
>> We don't budget for really yeah big
major storms in the urban area
>> primarily the rural and to be clear
they're not currently over budget but
the trend is it's looking over budget.
Um but that would assume we have the
same storms we had in the first half of
the year and the second half of the year
which may not happen. So we may end the
year with not being overbudget. One of
the things about storm is that it is a
recoverable expenditure. So if you go
over your uncontrollable expenses such
as storm, you can recover that through
future rates. So that's one of the
things that BCU allows us to um you
because it's such a challenge to
forecast that and there's nothing you
can really do. So that's one of those
areas where if you do go over budget,
it's recoverable in you know in a
deferral account in future years. So in
the city when we have those storm events
and there's branches everywhere is that
that's dealt with by public works then
okay that makes more sense. Thank you.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Anything unless it affects
the electric utility then it's all
public works. All that flooding um work
we've had to do in these storms is
really on the public works side of it.
[clears throat]
Yeah, that's all I have.
>> Any questions for
>> Yeah, I'm happy to
>> CFO.
Seeing none, if I could have somebody
move receipt of um his report for
information. And [clears throat] as you
saw tonight, uh Chris presented and
Amy's off on her maternity leave and uh
don't think she's had a baby yet, but uh
she's expecting soon. I believe the end
of August was her due date.
>> Yep, I think so.
>> So that was moved. I just want to get it
moved. So that was by council Panero.
Seconder is that council lock. All those
in favor of receiving the report. Thank
you. And that carries.
>> Sorry. Yeah, just um yeah, just
recognition recognizing um you know the
pretty soon happy event with Amy and we
certainly miss her here and and Chris
has had to uh you know fill the shoes of
a bunch of his senior managers there and
he's backfilled for most of those
positions and as I said earlier
procurement we've gone third party on
that and so that's something new so Um
yeah um of course in the finance
department there's pretty stretched
right now so um
may not attend as many uh um other
meetings as as he has in the past just
so he can focus on you know rebuilding
that team of his down there.
» Okay. So moving on to item 12B.
Uh, pickle ball.
>> Freedom City.
>> Wait, Freedom City. Sorry, I got ahead
of myself. Put a tick beside it before I
did it. Um,
>> you're awarding that to pickle ball.
>> Yeah. [laughter]
>> Anyhow, the city of
>> the city the the city's freedom of the
city policy has not been updated since
2000 and no longer reflects the current
legislative framework. The attached
amended policy aligns eligibility,
voting requirements, and statutory
effects with section 158 of the
community charter and staff
recommendation is that council adopts
the amended policy. And so I'm just
going to add to this because this was
something that basically I brought up
and it's been on my [clears throat] sort
of plan as we look at things like the
sports ambassador and the cultural
ambassador and the fact that we've now
um added another cultural um award and
we have the heritage award and this is
something that hasn't been given out for
a number of years. Um, somebody the last
time I thought it was given out was to
Sean Lamb in like 2008, but somebody
told me that we gave it to the Kilties
in uh
>> Y
>> in 2014,
I think.
>> That's not on the list, is it?
>> 2018. 2019.
>> Oh, it is
>> 2018
first year.
>> Yeah. Anyways, so it's like so they've
been few and far between sort of in the
last little bit and then it was always a
question about whether or not we wanted
to do this or if we wanted to do
anything with it. This is before us
tonight um to at least update the policy
>> and that that council can have at any
time a future discussion about whether
or not they um see this as an award that
they want to um give out. The other
thing is is that we could say no, we
don't want to update this policy and
perhaps you know one of the options
obviously is just to remove this policy
from our our books so to speak going
forward. The recommendation is um to
adopt the amended freedom of the city
policy
um make bringing it at least in line
with the um requirements of the
community charter.
So, it's been moved by councelor Paige
and it's been seconded by councelor
Lockenberg.
It's like, okay, is he scratching his
head or is he? And councelor Payne has a
question. Councelor Payne has a
question. When when I read this, um, I
got a very colonial feeling about the
history of it. So I I love the concept
of
um you know having an award for
exceptional contribution to the city and
what's behind it. I did look a couple of
other communities, but I
um as you say, updating it now to just
bring it in line with current
legislation
may be worthwhile, but at some point in
time, I think we need to look at it with
a more
um decolonializing
perspective so that
it's that it goes through a a broader
um assess ment with different groups in
the community to make sure that it meets
the needs of a wider array.
I'm talking about um diversity, equity,
inclusion and the indigenous
perspective.
So that's my suggestion.
So um
it's been moved and seconded. Um, we can
defeat that motion and refer or
we can pass it and flag that
it probably needs to have
more revision and more update.
And Council Panero, it's going to go to
you for discussion.
>> Sure.
>> I guess I don't know. I feel like we
have so many options as far as like
giving
people recognition in the community. We
have awards and different things that
sort of hit
different aspects of our community that
um we have several and this in its
former iteration anyway is very
specific
uh and not
if it's all the same, like we can adopt
the new version or whatever, but I don't
really see the point in it to be honest.
Like, we don't give it out. We haven't
given it out in a very long time. And
it's hard to imagine giving it out again
when we have, you know, a cultural
ambassador award, we have a sports
ambassador award, and we have all these
other ways of giving recognition to
people that stand out in the community.
So it seems a little bit redundant to
me. So if that if there's staff time
involved in fixing it, I think you just
my goal would be just to scrap it.
>> Okay, I see counselor Tate with her hand
up.
>> Hi, thanks so much. Um, yeah, I wanted
to just bounce off counselor Payne
because when I read the new version, I
actually thought that it leaned into um
a broader ideal um and it's
um and to speak to councelor Pierro
where those other um ambassadorship
awards are and I think we discussed this
in the past, you know, they're focused
on a particular aspect of a person's
achievement
um and usually early in their careers
whether it's sports or cultural or
otherwise or while they're still
working. What I liked about this is that
it gave an option for um like a lasting
community impact and I think I was just
going to control F. I think the impact
word is even in there and and I liked
that um kind of bigger ideal. Um
and it also in the policy says that it
doesn't need to be every year and it
should be used sparingly. And so I think
it gives that opportunity for a really
like
special person who has done something
special for the community that is unique
and outside of maybe that those specific
genres. Um and so I I actually thought
it did lean into a big a bigger view of
how to positively impact a community. I
was happy with the shift in language.
>> Councelor Paige. Yeah, I'm sensitive to
how we are inclusive in our awards and
our activities. I think given the
medieval history of of this particular
award, which used to be a ceremony that
you would hold where people who were
part of a feudal system, if you lived in
a city for a year and a day, there was a
ceremony. You were declared to have
freedom of the city and that freed you
from your surfom.
uh and that slowly became less and less
of tradition as the concept of of
people's freedom became more enshrined
in just the legal framework of where we
live today and this is a vestage of that still lives on and is reserved for
an honor. So I wouldn't necessarily look
to transform this award um because it
has that history and and kind of keeping
it there is is is a hearkening back to
some of the principles that brought us
here which is in itself colonialism but
I'm also sensitive to how we create you
know new recognitions that are
modernized but this has like a story in
ancient history and if anything I would
be curious where the register is kept
and do we maybe want to put a a little
bit more um you know dressing and
decoration around some of those more
formal pieces because it used to be you
were on a roll and that role is probably
more of a voter role and a resident role
nowadays but it was it was what a city
would adopt you and say you were allowed
to to trade and work and live in that
city and there was no lord somewhere
that said you had to be on a field out
there.
It's [snorts] really interesting
history.
counc
[clears throat]
>> the other thing I want to bring forward
is how over the course of this it looks
like three women out of the entirety
have um achieved this award so that's
why I think not only
>> um that colonial aspect but the you know
equity inclusion part is something and I don't know how we achieve that I know
there's some historical
um trying to think of the word that
maybe just was the way it was back in
1947. I wasn't alive then, but I think
it it it may it merits I think it merits
more work. And I I'm sort of thinking
now that maybe this isn't the award.
Maybe there is a different award. And I
don't know what's out there, but I'm
sure we know lots of people who could
help us find out.
>> Well, and I guess at the end of the day,
we don't have to give out awards. I mean
there's like we can take I'm just
thinking about what councelor Panero was
just saying that um you know it's just
that this has um been on the has been on
the books um and I discussed this at a
previous time when I had a meeting with
the um culture development officer in
regards to the new um presentation that
we have for um for a person within arts
and culture who has a you know a
substantive portfolio of work that
they've achieved in a in a lifetime that
will be recognition that will be um
given out not necessarily every year but
to um [clears throat] look at that
outstanding contri contributions.
So, this is another award that
potentially um is not just in one silo,
but could be given to somebody that's
done a lot of contributions, but we
don't have to have it. Option, one of
the options there is to actually take it
right off the right off the books.
Councelor Payne.
>> So if we take it right off the books and
then find something else, we can somehow
where the next council can propose that
as one of the possible action items to
be looked at as we go forward because I agree with you the way this has been
changed so that it's not specifically
volunteer. There are a number of
segments of our community that don't
have anything in particular like you
know business really business not for
profofits social services many of those
have had
city changing events and contributors
>> pardon me
>> healthcare that's what I mean so there
there's lots of areas where exceptional
service has been provided to the city
that has definitely definitely changed
the needle and made it a better place to
be.
>> Yeah. And when I look at this, I mean
there's a lot of men here, but I mean
some of these like talk about
healthcare, I mean Dr. Morrison got this
award. I mean we've had sports um Ernie
Gar won because of his contribution to
sports. Joan Riker um got her award
because of her contribution to the
social service sector. Like in terms of
these people's names that are on here, a
lot of them come from a lot of sectors
that you've just um listed. counselor
>> paying Sean Lamb obviously arts and arts
and culture. I would see like you know
Sean Lamb got this award. I would see
Shaun Lamb [clears throat]
>> would have probably been a candidate for
the new um CDC award, the new the new
cultural award. So anyways, we've got a
motion on the table to adopt the amended
freedom of the city policy. Um do we
want to take a vote and people can vote
that however they want and then we can
try another motion or
>> vote.
>> Yeah. So calling the question on the uh
resolution as it appears. All those in
favor
and opposed and that carries. So there
we go. So that carries and we can leave
it to the next.
Um, just that you've all heard my
thoughts before and that was the fact
that I thought that perhaps this would
be something that a council because of
the fact that you would don't want to
give this out every year because you're
looking for special
people and we're looking for all of
those things in regards to equity and
gender diversity and everything else
that that a council would like a council
might pick one in a term. So that maybe
you would look at this award being given
out every four years. I think we're a
little bit late in our term here, but I
think that that would be something that
we'd want to bring it back so that we
didn't amend this and then now all of a
sudden we dropped it off the plate again
and then it come, you know, 10 years
from now somebody goes, "Oh, do we need
to adopt that or adjust it?"
How's the page?
>> Do we do we have a physical plaque
somewhere of these? And I've just missed
it
like the registry. I know it's probably
a book somewhere, but like looking at
that list, it feels like it's
>> I don't I don't think we have a formal
registry. This is the other thing is I
don't think there's anything
formal that we've kept that I found in a
record trying to look in the
>> in the city
>> installation somewhere or something at
the archive.
>> [clears throat]
>> I think that probably is the kind of
thing to go in is to say where where do
we put this this particular
award where do we keep track of it?
Where do we honor that we've given?
Yeah, the mayor suggested, you know, um
you know, maybe like even our all of
former
>> mayors and counselors, you know, maybe
doing a, you know, a kiosk that, you
know, lists all the all those people
that are sports ambassadors,
>> uh, culture ambassadors, freedom of the
city. So, um, you know, there's a, you
know, if you're interested in that,
there's a place certainly we can put it
on a web page and stuff, but maybe when
you come into city hall, if you're
interested in knowing who the mayor was
in 1907, that you can just go to the
kiosk and find out some of the, you
know, those important people recognized
in our community over the years. And it
could be little posters on the other
side of the years that they were chosen.
>> Yeah. But even just tomorrow night, the
wall we have, I was talking to him about
the fact that we would get that on some
kind of like touchcreen or whatever and
you could look cuz as much as I mean the
they're getting old and tired out there.
are a lot of people that come
down. I see them all the time. It's like
you know my grandfather was a city
counselor and they want to go and find
the picture way down the hall. So I mean
people do stop and look when the when
the children come in to visit city
council. They're like, "Look at look at
all those old people mustaches."
[laughter]
>> So, it they they do seem, but I mean, we
could we could modernize how we present
all of that stuff. So, there's lots of
options on how we can do it when we get
there.
Um, so now we're moving on to pickle
balls and they're not getting the
freedom of the city.
>> They're not. [laughter]
Darn.
>> I think they're going to be really
upset.
>> I'm going to be getting there is going
to there is going to be emails tomorrow
to the mayor. Um,
>> golden pickle.
>> Yes. [laughter]
>> So, 12 C. Local pickle ball players have
asked council to consider improved pickle ball facilities at
Lakeside Park, including permanent
courts over the longer term. Staff
recommend purchasing two temporary net
systems for the two tennis courts
already marked for pickle ball.
>> This approach addresses current demand
while preserving existing tennis and
basketball use and maintaining the
flexibility of the court area.
So, we all heard them come. Councelor
Lockenberg, are you moving?
>> I'll move the option number two
actually.
And but um because I also want to ask
questions about it. I'm not sure if it's
the best approach, but it's something if
it is the best approach, that's the one
I
>> Okay,
>> which is
>> is there somebody that wants to second?
So option two just for everybody is that
remove the tennis net adjacent to the
basketball area and install two
permanent pickle ball courts and nets.
Is there a seconder for that? And maybe
if there's no secondary, you might just
get to ask your question and
>> Yeah, that's fine. Maybe it was better
to ask it beforehand, but
>> Okay, I'm not seeing a seconder. So I
think you're going to I'm going to give
you the
>> Okay. So my question is it the taking up
and putting down of nets is potentially
an unnecessary hassle if the because my
read from the communities I keep getting
surprised at how many pickle ball
players there are. the tennis has
already quite a bit of options and it
sounded like from what I heard that
there's more
demand for pickle ball at that spot than
there is even for tennis. Is that is
that the case?
>> Uh I wouldn't say that we've found that
um
>> answer you
>> or is it I mean in part [laughter]
>> the thing you'd have to do to read
demand is I mean if there's not the
option then the demand's not going to be
there but if it was would
[clears throat] the demand be there? my
read had been that it probably would be
like if it's there.
>> Yeah, there's I think that's been like
we hear that. Yeah. Yeah. To your point,
you know, they don't really have an
option to play down there with the
exception of the few that have access
>> to the temporary nets that are there
now.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I would just differentiate that um a
couple items maybe to help uh color the
picture that we've tried to draw in this
report uh thus far. Um, one is that the
nets that we are looking at are a higher
grade net than what is currently stored
in the box down there that some of the
uh, winter club members have access to.
>> Um, and they're actually on rollers, so
they would stay. They'd be very easy to
slide them into place and then have a
court going up, take down. Yeah, they're
just you slide them over, lock the
casters, boom, you have a like real
high-end tournament level net and court
available,
>> right?
>> And you would want to lock them away.
Like would that be part of the
[clears throat]
>> Well, we would secure them. So, we we've
talked about that obviously in
operations cuz, you know, this is, you
know, an asset that would be sitting
there. So, we lock the or sorry, each
night our our crews go around and lock
certain things. Historically, we haven't
locked the tennis courts, but we can.
Okay. Uh, and because they'd be
constructed and longer, that would be
the first step that we would take. We'd
also explore options if we can just lock
them against the fence and then they
stay, you know, put and don't get messed
around.
>> So, we'll be exploring options, but we
do feel like there are options to try
and keep it secure. Obviously,
>> somebody who's really motivated can
figure things out, right? Um, so I just,
you know, want to say that as far as
sliding them into place, um, that, uh,
is actually quite an easy, um, proposal.
with these nets. And moreover, you get
to then take advantage of two courts
because there's actually pickle ball
lines painted on two of the three tennis
courts. And so if one was being played
on and one wasn't, then you could move
it to either as opposed to having just
one single or two courts on one court,
right?
>> As well, and you know, this is probably
something that I should have written
better in option number two is, you
know, we've said remove the tennis net
adjacent to the basketball area. You
know, there is possibility that you
could move that to the middle court to
have pickle ball because there is
basketball nets on either end of the
tennis court that would ultimately be
shut down if you're
>> playing pickle. You can't really play
basketball when somebody's playing
tennis there anyways. But
>> when there's tennis, the nets in the
middle, you have more of a half court to
play basketball. Right.
>> Right. So if you know we could you know
if council did want to go the permanent
route um then we could look at that
middle court and then it would because
one of the things that staff really
wants to maintain down here is the
multi-use of the facility
>> uh and having those options. So we feel
like having the tennis courts there it's
great if you want to play tennis you can
play tennis with two of the three courts
you can put the pickle ball nets in and
you'd have you know two courts available
there. Plus then we also maintain the
basketball nets on either end.
>> Yeah.
>> All of this is, you know, generally in
mind to see how this works, see how it
goes. We do believe that there's demand.
I think that's pretty clear for anybody
who's talked to anybody about this.
>> While there's an opportunity to work on
what is this sort of more longer term
solution, which is that you'll see at
the end of the report, the attachment,
there's actually the resident proposal
for permanent courts, right? So some
gives us time to do some thinking about
where those possibly could be.
>> Okay.
>> We're really focused on keeping um green
space green space down at Lakeside.
>> So um be somewhere else, but that's more
color for the picture.
>> If I may have a follow-up question to
that. [clears throat]
>> Sure. So what I part of what as I was
thinking this through that I could see
conflict because you know when I played
tennis years ago it there would be
situations where you're in line waiting
for a court and if you've got the mix of
pickle ball and tennis you can imagine a
scenario where some tennis players
playing and behind them is the pickle
ball so they come onto the court they
take over the net and then do you know
what I mean and then you've got like a
weird dynamic there where then then the
next people are want to play tennis or
those guys then go back in line to play
tennis then the the net [clears throat]
has to be moved away and then the tennis
has to be set up. It just seemed
unnecessarily complex if both of them
would be in active use anyways.
>> Well, when we can look at, you know,
[clears throat] I think the the portable
net piece is like that's a high quality
just as as good of an option as a
permanent net there.
>> Yeah.
>> So, you know, do you you know, then you
could look at you could designate the
middle courts as pickle ball.
>> Yeah. and you know and tennis is on the
other two courts and if there's
basketball you know tennis would have to
share with basketball. Um so I think
there's some options around reducing
that conflict that certainly has come up
as you know are we going to create
conflict is someone you know like person
you know two little two teenagers are
playing basketball and screws up the
tennis players and and pickle ball
players and um so that would be
definitely something we're monitoring is is this working is you know we have a
vision of multi-purpose
ideal in the ideal world. But
>> if it just creates conflict, then and I think the portable nets still give you
options to say, "Okay, well, we're just
going to designate this pickle ball.
It's it's not moving. You can't we'll
take down the tennis court net and and
it's a pickle balls court, right?"
>> And you know, the idea of that multi-use
and like overcoming those challenges is
like an important part of shared space
like that too, right? So that you know
it's not one camp tennis camp and the
pickle ball camp and they're all just
staring at each other, right? It's like,
well, work it out. You know, this is
what public access is all about.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. I
just can just imagine scenarios where
you get this lineup of pickle ballers
and then there's one tennis group in the
middle of four groups of they come on
and they move everything out and it's
just like
>> anyways, but I trust you guys.
>> I think it's sort of working now. Um
like not only is there u people that are
in club that have the portable net down
there that they can set up
>> net
>> but there's also um yeah people that
bring their own nets down there and play
and then there's also people that will
play over top of the the uh tennis nets
and I think it speaks to the you know
this is really intended to keep it
multi-use by groups sometime you know
the city's discuss with us about
A longer term solution sounds good.
>> And the key here is it's free. This is
public space.
>> Yeah. Yeah, totally.
>> You know, not everybody can belong to
the tennis club and we heard not
everybody can afford to belong to the
pickle ball club. I've got counselor
Paige and then I've got counselor Tate.
>> Okay. Like I'm good with whatever is
flexible. Uh that multi-use piece is
important. And we had mentioned
uh RCK staff had already been given some
direction to look at having some
additional equipment at the paddle
center. Um this is going to be
complimentary or or instead of so just
to keep that uh just to share that for
those of us who are at Wreck 5 will have
heard it but not maybe everybody else.
Uh, and
the the basketball courts are so well
done and the lighting is so good. And I
would be curious when it comes to those
tennis courts if we can improve some of
the light fixtures there. If we're
spending $6,000 on equipment and if
there's going to be any kind of
improvement on lines,
um, as we go into future season, it is quite they're quite
superior fixtures on the basketball side
of things, which both from a lighting
quality perspective, from an from a
height perspective and how they light
the court, I just think it's more
comfortable when we get into this kind
of season, which is a lot of the year
quite honestly at the start and the end
of the season, just to improve those
lighting, have one kind of consistent.
» Yeah, there's some improvements that
have been identified for the lighting
down there, such as having it on a
timer, right?
>> So that uh you can actually
>> turn it on and then it goes off and we
aren't just bathing everything in light
when there's nobody playing. So also
good. Yeah, we have some electrical work
to do down there. So that's something
that we've discussed in the past.
>> Council Tate,
>> thanks so much. um in my recollection
after that big windstorm there was a
quite a large um private donation to
repair the tennis courts and I just
wanted to make sure that we were um
looping those folks in if there were any
permanent changes being made just to
have those conversations because I think
that they were well you know I'm open to
um the multi-use I'm a big fan of
multi-use but just making sure that
perhaps there's some discussions that
can be had there as Am
I miss am I misremembering?
>> Well, there's just to be clear, yes,
thereation, but the city did put in um
substantial money as as well. So,
>> Okay.
>> A private uh individual. Um
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Good. Just to and maybe just have
a quick email. Hey, just if there was
permanent changes being made, I'm not
sure what would be the standard and
likely we've never encountered that
before, but
>> boy, for every uh policy, there was a
reason, right?
>> Yeah, I Yeah, we've discussed that,
Councelor Tate. Um and to the city
manager's point um while we really
appreciate uh the the support provided
by uh the family um you know and this we
did have just sort of cursory
discussions with them about this and um
you know I think that this temporary
solution would fit with you know their
perspective on it but um you know at the
end of the day it is a public asset uh
and so needs to be managed for the
public. Um, and that's that's sort of
where we landed on that discussion, but
we certainly had it internally.
>> Yeah. Oh, I I agree. It's public asset.
I just would be curious if if people
were to find out like through a
newspaper article or some kind of
Facebook post, it might feel a little
bit weird when there's just an
opportunity just to do that outreach,
but it sounds like that's already done.
So, yay. Thanks.
>> Yep.
>> Cerate. Um I'm interested is there any
way that we or how do we monitor use at
that site?
>> Yeah. Formally, um
we don't
>> I guess we could create a like when you
go for a hike, we could put a register
in there and ask people to sign up on
there.
>> Something like that, you know.
>> Is there anything illegal about putting
a camera there that would just flick on
every time somebody was using it?
>> A privacy thing.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes.
>> I'm Yeah. I'm just Yeah. I'm not saying
to take Oh,
>> yeah. I [clears throat] hear you. Yeah.
Like some easy way to count it or
>> some easy way to like when you drive
down the road and there's a thing on the
road and you go over. So maybe I don't
know. I I think we're making decisions
without
>> complete information. I understand there
is a strong need in the community and
this sounds like a a great temporary
solution. I'd also be interested to know
if 60,000 so a $30,000 net if there's
two of them, right?
>> 3,000 or $6,000 for the two.
>> Sorry. Wow. Obviously read that one
wrong.
>> Yeah.
>> Um Yeah. Will they be able to be reused
at some permanent site or will they
always just be
>> the the quality that we're getting?
Yeah, they'd definitely be able to be
reused or continue to be an option down
there if the permanent site arises, you
know, just to have those. Um, and you
know, we've this is something that uh
we've been talking about for a while
down there. And so staff um has been
paying attention, I guess you would say.
So just anecdotal uh you know, evidence
about who's using using it. And they do
find that it's, you know, quite often
like tennis is is quite busy down there.
Pickle ball does get played. You know,
to councelor Lockenberg's uh point too,
you know, you'd probably see even more
pickle ball if there were two nets set
up there. Um but it's something that
we'll certainly be watching as we go. Uh
and as far as um getting those
statistical accounts aren't really built
for that right now and we'll have to put
some thought to it to try and understand
how much use it would see.
>> Yeah. I want to make sure we're
investing where
>> wisely. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Use our funds where we're serving the
greatest number of the population to
meet the best and highest value. Um, my
last question is, do we have a ballpark
of what the two permanent would cost?
Maybe that's why I got the $60,000.
>> No, about uh on the court.
>> No, no, I'm saying to put in two
permanent
>> It's about the same. Yeah, we did ran
the numbers. So, and and realistically,
these nets are are less expensive. Uh
the ones that we found uh were two grand
a piece.
>> I don't mean permanent nets. Sorry, I'm
asking the wrong question. Oh,
>> at some point in time when we do take do
the work to find out where we're going
to put permanent
>> pickle ball courts, do we have a
ballpark figure?
>> Be higher than that and it would be find
grant funding.
>> Yeah, I did reach out to uh CBT and they
have funded a number of pickle ball
courts across the the region. Yeah,
>> it just did rebel stoke for 180. Rebel
still got 100.
>> So more than 60.
>> Yeah.
So I don't know when he got
>> I don't know either. [laughter] I'm
still trying to figure it out.
>> And that's probably Well, and I think
that was a bigger project than almost.
It might not have just been pickle ball
courts, but
>> Okay.
>> Yeah, they might add other stuff there,
but I think
>> it's going to be sight specific.
>> Yeah. I mean, I think this is really
just the beginning.
>> Yeah.
>> This is a sport that we know is
>> substantially growing. So, this is a I
think this is a great initial
move to make that available,
>> but we definitely need to move forward
whenever, but I'm [snorts] sure the next
council will be talking about. So, let's
give it a try to get a resolution on the
floor. So, I
>> think we moved it. Oh, we didn't.
>> No, we haven't because um
>> I'll move the move the main motion.
>> Okay. And is there a seconder?
Councelor Payne. So, councelor Paige,
>> the council direct staff to purchase two
temporary pickball net systems for use
at Lakeside Parks.
The Lakeside Park courts have
>> been moved and seconded.
>> Question. Um, should we add for a budget
of up to $6,000 up to? Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> If they cost more than that,
>> I think we've we've scouted them.
They're their
>> grand piece. We think it's just a matter
of whether we can get them and whether
costing will shift. That was being
conservative.
>> Yeah, I saw two. Yeah, between two and
three that you can get high quality.
>> And is the mover fine with just adding
up to $6,000?
>> Super friendly.
>> Okay, that's great. Then so you have a
question still. Um just cuz thinking of
cricket thinking of some of the other
stuff are we is this the solution or
we've run this solution past pickle ball
or the people who have advocated for
pickball at least before we go do a buy
uh I've had some informal discussions a
little bit more um no they they want to
you know they want to start here they're
really what their goal is to is to have
permanent public courts [clears throat]
and
>> in Nelson
um
they would like two dedicated nets as
their first option but as I you know as
the GM and I said the the quality of
these nets are equivalent to the quality
of a permanent net um we need to I think
you have to be open if in the event
there is conflict and it's not working
then I think you can still achieve you
don't need a permanent net to achieve
that you could just designate a court as
permanent pickle ball, take the, you
know, the tennis net down and then it
would be a a pickle ball court, right?
So, so I don't think you're going to
lose all that.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I would just like us to circle back
with the group before we pull a trigger
on a particular equipment. Just this is
just see what surfaces.
>> Yeah, we'll go back to them in terms of
what net they would recommend.
>> Buy one, we see how it works. Maybe the
secondary by two.
>> No, I think you want to
one court. They definitely asked for
two.
>> Yeah,
>> you'd just be wasting a court if you
didn't do two.
>> Okay, fair enough. I just want us to
circle back. I don't want it to
>> be installed show up and then someone
who's actually playing pickle ball will
be like well you know it really should
have been
>> other product or
>> we definitely have communicated that we will uh talk to that folks that
are the experts in this field of what
they would recommend as the best
uh
I guess
>> can I can I ask one more question before
we vote
>> yeah for sure I'm hey I could be here
all night. [laughter]
>> I just want to push you just a little
bit more to make sure that I'm imagining
this right. These nets, cuz it's not in
the in the gen package, these nets would
be just out, right? Like they would
>> they're on permanent rollers.
>> Permanent rollers.
>> You push them off the cord
>> and they're kind of rolled up and you
would kind of just like
>> they're like this.
>> This
>> and you just kind of roll them
>> up against the fence. Yeah. Put them up
against the fence. have it like crank
tensioner, like a winch tensioner.
>> Okay.
>> So, they're like Yeah, they're very
>> So, really quick, you just slide it in,
slide it out.
>> Slide it in, lock the casters, and
they're like tournament level. The ones
that we've scoped out are tournament
level, like, you know, regulation.
>> But then the other thing is, wouldn't
you have to take down the tennis net?
>> It actually keeps the tennis between,
>> you know, [clears throat] splits the two
or anything.
>> No, no, it splits the Well, there's
enough room between them.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So it's not not a danger to be
like running back and then bang into a
net.
>> Well, you have that in pickle ball
anyway. You have a fence or a wall
>> in pickle ball.
>> A lot of movement necessarily.
>> It's not like tennis like you're
>> No, there's a lot of movement
>> but not that kind.
>> But you have got it.
>> You already have that barrier. You have
a a fence and the ones up there.
>> Sure. Okay.
>> There's a fence behind you, right?
>> Yeah. It sounds
>> in Mary Hall. There's a wall behind you.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I know that
>> there's enough room.
>> Sounds like you guys got to check it
Yeah, there's enough room for for that
space. Cool.
>> Okay, motion's been moved and seconded.
All those in favor
and opposed
and that carries. Okay, moving on to
12D, the civic um center. So, this is
our interim um risk mitigation strategy.
Council is being asked to confirm its
policy direction to continue operating
the civic arena and indoor soccer
facility as important community
recreation assets while long-term
capital planning and funding efforts
continue for future facility upgrades.
Council is also being asked to adopt the
roof monitoring and risk mitigation
program as the framework used to manage
winter roof load risks and support safe
occupancy of both facilities. The
program establishes monitoring,
inspection, recordkeeping, operational
response measurements, communication
protocols, and authority for temporary
restrictions or closures when warranted
by conditions.
This approach is consistent with the
facility strategy and asset management
principles discussed with council during
the 2026 budget process while
recognizing that aging facilities may
continue to operate where risk can be
appropriately monitored and managed to
long-term renewal or replacement
solutions are planned and funded. The
recommendation balances public and
employee safety, community recreation
needs, surface continuity, responsible
asset management and financial
stewardship.
So we have a report there. We talked
about this in previous seasons
and there is a recommendation there.
>> Council Loenberg, is there a secondary
of the recommendation? Councelor Panero.
Council, any discussions?
» I just want to you have the engineer
report.
>> [snorts]
>> Um,
and we just want to be clear that
certainly the structural engineer has
said that roof is so underbuilt at
current um current snow loads even
though there's no sign of distress at
the present time that they weren't
comfortable of saying you can just keep
monitoring it and not address it. So the
strategy is an interimm strategy. we
will um apply for grants to uh do the
structural upgrade um
>> civic arena,
>> right?
>> On the civic arena on the arena. Um, so
[clears throat] we just, yeah, just want
to be clear that everyone is aware that
certainly the engineer developed what
that monitoring program looks like and
including inspections each year, but um,
certainly has identified that they
couldn't sign off on that's a permanent
solution.
Okay, seeing nobody's hand up.
Um,
>> council,
>> sorry, I have a question.
>> Thank you.
>> Thanks. Um, so do I understand correctly
that the program is that mitigation plan
from 2024 and we're we're just
reaffirming our
approval of that that program or is
there a new differently documented
program?
>> No.
>> Okay.
>> It's from uh 24 and then we use that
adapted it for the soccer facility after
that. U okay uh assessment was
completed. So
>> same uh broadstrokes uh process of
monitoring have um threshold depths of
snow that we monitor for when it gets
near those we consider what our actions
are. when they hit those thresholds or
just before they do we close the
facility to all personnel uh you know
significantly exceeds then we will do a
more thorough inspection prior to
reopening the facility.
>> Uh those same basic tenants are there
from the 2024 plan and this getting
council to um
>> you know have this be a council policy.
[clears throat]
>> Okay. It is it written is there a policy
written down somewhere? I'm I'm miss I'm
just trying to understand the
attachments honestly. It is it'll be an
internal document and it's not written
yet. It's going to be based on that 2024
one and extended to the soccer pitch but
it's not actually cap like it's not
actually in these documents the new
program.
>> Uh well we are just using the existing
program.
>> Gotcha. Okay. So the 2024 one we're just
reaffirming that and extending it to the
soccer.
>> Yes, we are to for council. This is um
you know the Marchie case would be a
good example of of why we are here. So
that this isn't a staff decision or
couldn't be conceived to be a staff
decision to operate like this. So this
>> okay
>> we are looking for council to provide
direction to staff to use this uh uh
approach to manage the facilities in lie
of you know until we are able to upgrade
the civic arena roof and um you know the report speaks to it but the
engineering uh um report for the soccer
center came back and did not recommend
an upgrade. It did identify that it was
underbuilt to today's compared to
today's snow loads, but that it doesn't
show any signs of stress and there um
you know has performed sufficiently over
its lifetime. So there was not that
recommendation for an upgrade that there
was on the civic arena. We still operate
them in the same manner to you know uh
ensure safety of participants and staff.
Um, but this is the the route going
forward and staff is looking for counsel
to direct us and essentially make
>> Thank you. And do so would I would it be
the case then that after if this
decision was approved then there would
be a new actual policy with a policy
number or just this agenda item. This is
how we do it. This is our approach.
Here's our rationale. Council approved
it. I'm just curious. Just to clarify,
you are [clears throat]
approving that mitigation plan for the
civic arena. So, it's the
>> um I guess for a lack of a formal
policy, that is your policy on how we're
going to manage this
>> building. And I agree. I think we should
formalize it in an actual policy that is
adopted by council. So, for now, this is
that is your policy and we'll formalize
it into a a proper policy. So it's
clear. It should not be unclear.
>> Thank you.
» Okay. Seeing no council page.
>> Sorry.
Um
right now as the language is, we're just
contemplating how we're going to set
direction for future funding and
long-term capital planning for the roof
itself. But there needs to be a bit of a
needs to be a strategic plan about the
investment in the building completely uh
or at least that side of it. So, it's
like how do we
decide long term what we're doing with
the the improvements from everything to
change rooms to outside facades to
reinforcement if there's solar panels on
the roof to like I'm I'm throwing some
lobsters out on the table both as
serious and unserious pieces like what
is the contemplation of that footprint
long term if this is going to be here
for a hundred years even the
conversations about the allocation we do
with correct that is used to basically
define costing for rental fees is is
potentially not sufficient to put this
building anywhere after 25 years where
we could really make the investments and
means it's still an asset 80 years from
now if that's if it's the last historic
heritage arena that's still in operation
of its kind you know what is the very
long-term plan for it and before we're
looking for $12 million to replace a
roof
>> well Um
>> I'm just
>> at this Yeah. At this point um in your
facility
uh plan that you adopted this building
would be just maintained would not be
improved. Um so that's where that's the
current plan. If you want to change that
then you've shown you know what the
implications over the 10 years. Uh once
we get past that 10 years, we start to
uh hopefully generate uh you know enough
funds to start to renew buildings and
you'll have to you know this building
can be in the mix of it. So
realistically over this next 10 years
unless there's a change in in funding uh
i.e. uh significantly more taxation from
some party or a large grant, then you're
maintaining this building as is. And
we're dealing with, you know, those
structural components of the of the
building, you know, HVAC, ro grooves, uh
in this case, some structural
deficiencies. But again, this is
contingent on getting a grant for those
structural deficiencies. So, we're
trying to buy some time. Um, in 10 years
time, unless something's changed in that
10-year period, then, um, we're going to
maintain this building as is, uh,
hopefully get a grant to, um, you know,
deal with the roof. And that gives you
capacity to decide what you want to do
going forward.
>> Yeah, I I support where we're at right
now. I support affirming the policy. I
support buying some time in the
subsequent years of us buying time.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, is it interesting to maybe
have an arena foundation if the
community wanted to form one? Could we
contemplate how we might set forward a
garden path for that to happen where
we're not necessarily chasing the cost?
But if the community starts to show up
and is able to contribute some sort of
meaningful, we're able to match or more
effectively match and have a longerterm
vision for it as [snorts] opposed to
waiting the 25 years it'll take to get
on the front side of our $80 million
capital uh liabilities that we have. I
just before we just fix this one big
thing and chase one grant for one thing,
I'd like to know where the building is
going and I'd like to think about how we
enable that.
>> Yeah, I think that's a yeah, it doesn't
take very long for 10 years to go by.
So, um you just start contemplating what
you know what the future of this
building is. We're buying time at at the
present time. And part of buying time is um the engineer said we need to
actively be searching for grants for
this and um or you need to they're not
willing to sign off and you're looking
at bigger risk. U if there was an event
there and and you got an engineer that
said we said this was not a permanent
solution and you as council chose to
just ignore my advice and and try try to make a interimm strategy
a long-term strategy and you know
recommend that and you know we you know
we're not engineers but um you know the
I guess what gives us some comfort is
we're not seeing any um or the engineers
wasn't seeing any um um structure or
stress on that structure but they also
pointed out there's been failures
elsewhere with similar type of uh under
um live load conditions in other places.
I think uh Prince George had a failure,
Cranberrook had a failure. So
>> again,
>> yeah, these are, you know, they're not
just making things up. They can fail.
>> Mhm. I get that.
>> Okay, seeing no other hands. I'm going
to try this again. Council Tates, there
are no hands. Okay.
Um,
yeah. So, it's been the recommendation
has been moved and seconded. All those
in favor
and that carries. Thank you everybody.
And now we are on to I think
reports, minutes and
reports. So, we do minutes first.
>> Move receipt. And so, Councelor
Lochenberg has moved receipts of the
Nelson Public Library Board and the
Nelson Housing Committee. Is there a
seconder?
Seconded by Councelor Panero.
Um, any concerns, questions regarding
either of these two sets of minutes?
Seeing none, it's been moved and
seconded for receipt of information. All
those in favor?
Opposed? And that carries.
Moving on to reports. [snorts]
So, I'm going to go slowly through this
because last time I
asked and we had it all passed and then
people wanted to pull out. So, seeing
items one through five,
is there any of those items that anybody
wishes to remove
from the information items report at
this time? Councelor Payne, what are you
looking to remove? So if I have
questions on them, I need to remove
them.
>> Yes. So which like one, two, three,
four.
>> Three and four.
>> You're saying of one to five?
>> Oh, one to five. So hopefully you're
looking at the same thing I am.
Development services, corporate
services,
>> services council agenda.
>> No,
I'm in correspondent.
>> So you're in item number three.
Corporate services.
>> Yes.
>> You want to set that aside. Okay. So
then if I could ask for a motion to
receive for informations item 1, 2, 4,
and five.
Moved by councelor Lockenberg. Is there
a seconder?
Moved by councelor Panero.
One more chance. Anybody? Everybody's
okay. So we're going to move one, two,
four, and five for information. All
those in favor?
And that carries. Okay. Item three,
corporate services council
correspondence has been requested to be
removed for further discussion.
Councelor
Payne.
Um I number three invitation to the
Gutney Tourism Summit. Um I'm just
assuming that there will be a staff
member attending that event.
» That's probably something more
interesting like
>> tourism would go to
>> or something. Um, we don't, you know,
I've attended, uh, I know they had one
in Rosland that I attended, but I don't,
there's not a natural staff person that
would go to this. Probably either
tourism or or economic development would
might send somebody.
And um I'm just interested a number for
the Dutch elm disease survey which was
completed in the first couple of weeks
of
>> do we know when we'll see the results
from that?
>> No. And I actually sent uh earlier today
an email um to operations to say hey did
I never really did did you see anyone
around and have we heard back? So when I
hear back um I'll let you know or Yeah.
And other than the newsletter, I didn't
really see a communication. Was that the
um one part in that correspondence said
there would be a communication out to
folks in case people asked us what those
guys were doing? But so the newsletter
was it okay?
>> Yes.
>> The Dutch are are you speaking of the
Dutch?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. I don't know. It's
>> the newsletter. Yeah. And then uh cuz
that was coming via the
>> and the link didn't work in the
newsletter that I guess that's why it
was problematic for me.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> But we didn't get a request. We didn't
get any emails.
>> I didn't see anybody. I'm just wondering
whether or not I'd be interested to see
whether you got your reply back. And
this ministry has been very um busy in
terms of fire um and work that they're
doing. and maybe they um weatherwise
didn't quite get here. So
>> as a consultant they had
>> cuz they got in touch with us back in 24
saying they were going to be coming
around
>> and they
>> and I know I talked to invasive species
about this like two years ago that
>> Dutch elm because
>> we do we do want to know because we have
a lot of Dutch elms here and it would
make a big difference in a couple of our
parks if we suddenly had to start
cutting down the trees because that's
really the only mitigation for Dutch elm
if it takes hold is to actually remove
and destroy the in its totality.
It's my understanding.
» Just wondering. So, we don't know if
they were here and we'll just wait until
we get a report.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
Anything else?
Um, number 10, the letters to uh the
federal and the provincial minister of
housing, Gregor Robinson and Christine
Bole. Um, excellent letters. Thank you
very much. The only question that I have
is when a letter like that goes out, it
says a letter from mayor and council,
but I don't remember seeing the letter
prior to it going. So, how does that
work? Help me understand. We have a
policy. [clears throat]
We have a policy. So unless it's asking
for something or we are [clears throat]
providing something, the policy says
that it doesn't come to council even
though it may have the mayor or council
signature on it.
>> Was this the one that came up through
council? Yeah.
>> No, this
>> which one is this different?
[snorts]
>> Um it it covered a a lot. It like it was an excellent letter.
I think we I think it came out of that
and
>> there was a previous letter. Oh, about
the housing fund.
>> Yeah. No, there's the housing fund one.
This is the one that was about the fact
that
>> the this is about the DDC's and the the
whatever. And so this was this was
driven by
>> came from council is what you're saying.
>> It came from council. The request to
have
>> it as I said was great. Just wanted to
understand it so it goes to the policy.
That's the answer that I need.
>> Yeah. just to add some addition to that.
They have reached out to us now to
discuss further um their ideas around
this. So I think we're going to meet uh
the week of I think the 31st or the 1st.
We're going to have a session with FCM
to talk about what we were um yeah those
ideas that we shared in that letter were
>> great. Yeah. No, there was a lot of
really valuable information shared and
requested. So, I think I hope that will
move forward. Um, and I did have one
more piece of correspondence that wasn't
in the package. Do I have to ask about
that at a separate time? [clears throat]
>> Well, none of us,
>> everybody got it. It was one of the, you
know, two mayor and council ones.
>> That's not on here.
>> Well, it wouldn't They're not
>> It was It was one of the email ones.
Like, I'm still trying to sort out the
>> They're not on here right now. Okay.
So that's I guess that's what I'm trying
to understand. So what I have been
noticing which we discussed this evening
earlier today is that letters that used
to just come to us and I'm not sure
where they went if we weren't reaching
out and then they started to get
responded to because they were
operational and it was from staff and we
were getting copies of that. So this is
one that I didn't see a response to. So,
I'm just trying to understand if it was
responded to. How do I do that? We
probably need to at this point right now
connect with either myself, one of the
three of us, and figure out probably me
since I'm responsible for correspondence
and um we can have a conversation about
it.
>> Okay. It may have been followed up on. I
don't even know. And you may not have
been CCD on it to date. And and the
reason that I ask is when people send
their correspondents as we know they're
hoping that we will take some action
[laughter] on it. So we seem to I
believe action is being taken on many of
these things which is great but if I
don't know that and somebody else asks
me it's harder to you know then all of a
sudden it's it's email here and email
there and go there. So the CCing is
really optimal. So that was the sort of
the discussion maybe after you left is
how do we create a system that
>> um that you're aware of that and there's
discussion from do we just create a
>> sort of give you access to you know to
that database for a lack of a better
word that if you're interested you can
go have a look if counselor
>> and we have been getting a lot of those
emails we've been getting a lot of those
emails of the responses for the last
maybe two two and a half months I think
that makes sense. Yeah. So,
>> we're just looking at how we provide
that information and streamline it.
>> So, in this particular case, I can just
forward this email to you and say, "Can
I please see the response or was there a
response or Yeah,
>> yeah, we'll we'll we'll figure it out."
>> Okay. Thank you. That's
>> all I brought it for so I can
understand. And that was I knew there
was a presentation, but I didn't have
all the details. So, that's it for me in
correspondence. Thank you very much.
There was a lot there. So, councelor um
Paige is moving item um councelor Payne
is moving item three. Is there a
>> seconder
receipt
>> for receipt of information? Councelor
Lockenberg.
So, all those in favor of item three
receipt of information and that carries.
Thank you everybody.
So
and
yeah great. So moving on
any minutes reports
motion late items. Item 16 resolution to
closing the meeting to the public. It is
of the opinion of the council that the
public interest requires that persons
other than members of council and staff
and any approved audiences be excluded
from this meeting and that the special
closed meeting of council continue under
sections 90 1 C D and G of the community
charter to deal with matters related to
the following labor relations security
of municipal property litigation or
potential litigation affecting the
municipality. Is there a mover? Moved by
councelor Paige, seconded by councelor
Blockberg. Councelor Page, you have a
question.
>> We have a ecooter update in the agenda.
>> The reports in the
>> It was in the reports.
>> Was in the correspondence
to be in
>> No, it was number five as well.
>> Yeah, it was number five in the that we
passed.
>> Okay, great. That says memorand says a
memo from I guess the police. Yeah,
there's a whole
>> looked like a
part of the
>> package. Okay,
» you
>> Yeah, no, that's fine. I just I I saw it
and I was wondering if this is like
meant to be for a future agenda because
it
>> Okay.
» So, we've moved and seconded item.
Sorry, who seconded it? Sorry,
>> I did.
>> Council Dr. B.
>> Okay, thank you.
>> Um,
all those in favor
>> and maybe we can
>> and that carries.
>> Maybe we can just order these so that
some stuff I we can do the
>> up the shelter operations.
>> Yeah. Can we um can we So, it's been
moved and seconded. All everybody's in
favor that we're going to move in
camera. Can we can let her off and then
we'll
>> start the agenda and reorder as
necessary.
» So, I'm going to I just want to stand
up.
>> Yeah, I'm going to stand up. I'm going
to go wash.