1
00:02:48,630 --> 00:02:49,920
- Good morning, everyone.

2
00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:51,570
That's something different to say, right?

3
00:02:51,570 --> 00:02:54,150
Good morning as opposed to good afternoon.

4
00:02:54,150 --> 00:02:58,587
Welcome to the City Council
Meeting for August 11th, 2026.

5
00:02:58,587 --> 00:03:00,030
Our first order of business

6
00:03:00,030 --> 00:03:03,420
is to have a resolution to go in camera.

7
00:03:03,420 --> 00:03:07,260
So I have a resolution moved
by Councillor Nieuwesteeg,

8
00:03:07,260 --> 00:03:08,790
seconded by Councillor Kerrio.

9
00:03:08,790 --> 00:03:10,620
If there aren't any questions,
I'll call the motion.

10
00:03:10,620 --> 00:03:13,380
All those in favor.
Okay, thanks very much.

11
00:03:13,380 --> 00:03:14,580
So we're going to break now.

12
00:03:14,580 --> 00:03:15,990
Well, we're going to go in the back room

13
00:03:15,990 --> 00:03:17,970
probably for a couple hours
and then we'll come back

14
00:03:17,970 --> 00:03:19,870
and have our regular council meeting.

15
02:31:05,383 --> 02:31:06,216
- Hello everybody.

16
02:31:06,216 --> 02:31:10,230
Welcome back to tonight's
last scheduled council meeting

17
02:31:10,230 --> 02:31:11,760
of the term.

18
02:31:11,760 --> 02:31:14,360
It is Tuesday, August 11th.

19
02:31:14,360 --> 02:31:17,910
We just concluded our in-camera meeting,

20
02:31:17,910 --> 02:31:19,800
went a little bit longer than planned,

21
02:31:19,800 --> 02:31:21,330
where we discussed a number of matters

22
02:31:21,330 --> 02:31:24,510
we're not allowed by law
to speak about in open.

23
02:31:24,510 --> 02:31:28,530
So we are now in open
and as is our tradition,

24
02:31:28,530 --> 02:31:31,440
we start off first by singing of O Canada.

25
02:31:31,440 --> 02:31:34,830
So let me introduce our
singer for O Canada.

26
02:31:34,830 --> 02:31:38,490
She is sitting in the front
row looking very ready.

27
02:31:38,490 --> 02:31:40,920
Her name is Queenie Wu.

28
02:31:40,920 --> 02:31:44,040
Queenie was chosen to represent
the Niagara Music Festival

29
02:31:44,040 --> 02:31:48,900
at the 2026 Ontario Music
Festival Association Competition,

30
02:31:48,900 --> 02:31:52,800
where she won first
place and best in class

31
02:31:52,800 --> 02:31:56,340
in musical theater and in classical voice.

32
02:31:56,340 --> 02:31:58,050
She was also a top three winner

33
02:31:58,050 --> 02:32:01,230
at the National Association
of Teachers of Singing

34
02:32:01,230 --> 02:32:04,890
in the Students Audition in 2025.

35
02:32:04,890 --> 02:32:08,250
She's going into grade
four, she pointed out.

36
02:32:08,250 --> 02:32:09,840
And you know how when you're younger,

37
02:32:09,840 --> 02:32:11,820
you always talk about the
age you're going to be.

38
02:32:11,820 --> 02:32:13,050
And when you're older,

39
02:32:13,050 --> 02:32:15,210
we talk about kind of the age we were.

40
02:32:15,210 --> 02:32:17,850
So we'd like to welcome
tonight Queenie Wu.

41
02:32:17,850 --> 02:32:21,930
We're lucky to have her
singing O Canada for all of us.

42
02:32:21,930 --> 02:32:25,110
So please Queenie, stand if you can,

43
02:32:25,110 --> 02:32:26,880
please ladies and gentlemen.

44
02:32:26,880 --> 02:32:28,980
And Queenie, whenever you're ready, honey.

45
02:32:30,384 --> 02:32:35,384
♪ O Canada! Our home and native land ♪

46
02:32:40,365 --> 02:32:45,365
♪ True patriot love in all of us command ♪

47
02:32:50,128 --> 02:32:54,973
♪ With glowing hearts we see thee rise ♪

48
02:32:54,973 --> 02:32:59,973
♪ The True North strong and free ♪

49
02:32:59,988 --> 02:33:04,287
♪ From far and wide, O Canada ♪

50
02:33:04,287 --> 02:33:09,287
♪ We stand on guard for thee ♪

51
02:33:09,845 --> 02:33:14,845
♪ God keep our land glorious and free ♪

52
02:33:19,209 --> 02:33:24,209
♪ O Canada, we stand on guard for thee ♪

53
02:33:29,143 --> 02:33:33,726
♪ O Canada, we stand on guard for thee ♪

54
02:33:42,825 --> 02:33:45,908
(audience applauds)

55
02:33:55,528 --> 02:34:00,300
- Wow, Queenie, that may be one
of the best national anthems

56
02:34:00,300 --> 02:34:02,280
that we've ever had sung here.

57
02:34:02,280 --> 02:34:05,670
It had so much energy and passion.

58
02:34:05,670 --> 02:34:08,130
You even covered your
heart when you were singing

59
02:34:08,130 --> 02:34:09,535
at one point.

60
02:34:09,535 --> 02:34:11,970
I want to say, I know. I see
the looks on everyone's faces.

61
02:34:11,970 --> 02:34:15,270
I speak on everyone's behalf
when we say amazing thank you.

62
02:34:15,270 --> 02:34:18,240
You have a very bright
and promising future.

63
02:34:18,240 --> 02:34:19,877
Thanks Queenie.

64
02:34:19,877 --> 02:34:22,960
(audience applauds)

65
02:34:24,420 --> 02:34:26,910
- Wow, Councillor Kerrio,

66
02:34:26,910 --> 02:34:29,017
did you have something you wanted?

67
02:34:29,017 --> 02:34:30,361
- [Vince] She could sing at Super Bowl.

68
02:34:30,361 --> 02:34:31,920
(audience laughs)

69
02:34:31,920 --> 02:34:33,220
- I would agree with that.

70
02:34:34,668 --> 02:34:35,501
Or next year's Canada Day.

71
02:34:35,501 --> 02:34:36,630
There's a lot of opportunities.

72
02:34:36,630 --> 02:34:38,537
Make sure we got her number, okay?

73
02:34:38,537 --> 02:34:39,720
We're going to get her to
doing some other things.

74
02:34:39,720 --> 02:34:40,740
Queenie, thank you.

75
02:34:40,740 --> 02:34:43,080
Thank you to mom for
bringing you here today too.

76
02:34:43,080 --> 02:34:45,323
Well done. Great job,
honey. Thank you. Thank you.

77
02:34:46,796 --> 02:34:49,290
(audience applauds)

78
02:34:49,290 --> 02:34:50,123
- [Council Member] Good thing she did

79
02:34:50,123 --> 02:34:52,110
the last council meeting because
no one else could follow.

80
02:34:52,110 --> 02:34:54,960
- I know. That's a good point.
You should have said that.

81
02:34:56,460 --> 02:34:59,417
Hey, Queenie, our city manager just said

82
02:34:59,417 --> 02:35:01,950
it's a good thing you did
the last council meeting

83
02:35:01,950 --> 02:35:03,540
because if you did any other one,

84
02:35:03,540 --> 02:35:06,330
nobody would want to do
the next one after yours.

85
02:35:06,330 --> 02:35:08,560
So well done, honey. Great job.

86
02:35:08,560 --> 02:35:09,393
- [Queenie] Thank you so much.

87
02:35:09,393 --> 02:35:11,793
Thank you, honey. Thank
you. Thank you very much.

88
02:35:13,080 --> 02:35:14,030
All right (laughs).

89
02:35:15,750 --> 02:35:17,970
The rest of the meeting's going
to be a downer after that.

90
02:35:17,970 --> 02:35:19,470
Oh my goodness.

91
02:35:19,470 --> 02:35:21,270
Okay, moving along, ladies and gentlemen,

92
02:35:21,270 --> 02:35:24,030
we now move to our land acknowledgement.

93
02:35:24,030 --> 02:35:26,490
With the aim of educating our community,

94
02:35:26,490 --> 02:35:30,150
I'd like to invite Michele-Elise
Burnett, who's Bear Clan,

95
02:35:30,150 --> 02:35:34,320
Thunderbird Clan and Metis to
join us to share her testimony

96
02:35:34,320 --> 02:35:36,450
as we acknowledge and thank
the indigenous peoples

97
02:35:36,450 --> 02:35:40,203
who are stewards of this land
for a millennia before us.

98
02:35:43,110 --> 02:35:46,930
- [Michele] Hi (speaks foreign language)

99
02:35:54,240 --> 02:35:57,420
My spirit name is She
Who Is In The Centre.

100
02:35:57,420 --> 02:36:00,810
My French English name
is Michele-Elise Burnett.

101
02:36:00,810 --> 02:36:02,940
I am an artist, curator, producer,

102
02:36:02,940 --> 02:36:06,960
and storyteller of mixed
indigenous and European ancestry

103
02:36:06,960 --> 02:36:08,910
with Nipissing Algonquin roots.

104
02:36:08,910 --> 02:36:12,330
In my teachings, we are
reminded that every decision

105
02:36:12,330 --> 02:36:15,690
that we make, we must consider
the impacts it will have

106
02:36:15,690 --> 02:36:18,000
on the next seven generations.

107
02:36:18,000 --> 02:36:22,080
We strive for Mino-Bimaadiziwin,
to live a good life,

108
02:36:22,080 --> 02:36:25,260
one that seeks balance
with all life forces,

109
02:36:25,260 --> 02:36:27,630
and a life that truly matters.

110
02:36:27,630 --> 02:36:31,440
It means leading from the heart,
seeing, listening, feeling,

111
02:36:31,440 --> 02:36:34,290
speaking, and acting with good intentions

112
02:36:34,290 --> 02:36:36,810
and never for self-serving reasons.

113
02:36:36,810 --> 02:36:40,380
Gichi-Manidoo, the creator,
gave all creation gifts

114
02:36:40,380 --> 02:36:42,120
to share with one another.

115
02:36:42,120 --> 02:36:45,600
And with those gifts,
come responsibilities.

116
02:36:45,600 --> 02:36:48,390
The first is gratitude.

117
02:36:48,390 --> 02:36:51,000
Let's give gratitude for
the life-sustaining gifts

118
02:36:51,000 --> 02:36:53,130
that Mother Earth provides.

119
02:36:53,130 --> 02:36:55,110
She is our greatest teacher,

120
02:36:55,110 --> 02:36:57,930
demonstrating generosity each day

121
02:36:57,930 --> 02:37:00,990
without ever asking anything in return.

122
02:37:00,990 --> 02:37:03,840
We as human beings must
learn from our older

123
02:37:03,840 --> 02:37:05,670
and wiser relatives.

124
02:37:05,670 --> 02:37:08,070
We must remember that our very existence

125
02:37:08,070 --> 02:37:10,410
is supported by their gifts.

126
02:37:10,410 --> 02:37:13,470
And by thanking each
life-sustaining force,

127
02:37:13,470 --> 02:37:17,580
one becomes tied to each of the
forces of the natural world.

128
02:37:17,580 --> 02:37:20,850
It also reminds us that
what is done to one part

129
02:37:20,850 --> 02:37:25,050
of the web of life has
repercussions on all life forms,

130
02:37:25,050 --> 02:37:27,300
including ourselves.

131
02:37:27,300 --> 02:37:30,840
When we carry this understanding
into our workplace,

132
02:37:30,840 --> 02:37:35,400
our homes, and our daily
choices, we are actively caring

133
02:37:35,400 --> 02:37:38,940
for the next seven generations with love,

134
02:37:38,940 --> 02:37:41,163
generosity, and gratitude.

135
02:37:45,780 --> 02:37:47,763
- Together for the land that we share.

136
02:37:50,550 --> 02:37:53,370
Okay, moving along the agenda,
we're looking for an adoption

137
02:37:53,370 --> 02:37:55,950
of the minutes from the July 28th meeting.

138
02:37:55,950 --> 02:37:57,180
Motion by Councillor Nieuwesteeg,

139
02:37:57,180 --> 02:37:59,430
seconded by Councillor Kerrio.

140
02:37:59,430 --> 02:38:03,494
We'll call the motion to
approve. All those in favor.

141
02:38:03,494 --> 02:38:05,280
Okay, and that's unanimous.
Thank you for that.

142
02:38:05,280 --> 02:38:06,870
Are there any disclosures

143
02:38:06,870 --> 02:38:09,150
of a pecuniary interest of council?

144
02:38:09,150 --> 02:38:10,053
Councillor Lococo.

145
02:38:11,070 --> 02:38:14,760
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor, I have
sent the clerk my disclosure

146
02:38:14,760 --> 02:38:19,760
for 8.3AM 2026-010, the
Northwest Secondary Plan.

147
02:38:20,250 --> 02:38:22,740
I'm a current paid up
member with Club Italia,

148
02:38:22,740 --> 02:38:25,268
so I would remove myself
from the discussions.

149
02:38:25,268 --> 02:38:26,400
- Okay.
- Thank you.

150
02:38:26,400 --> 02:38:28,950
- Thank you for that. Yeah.
Councillor Pietrangelo.

151
02:38:29,790 --> 02:38:31,650
- Thanks, Your Worship. Same one.

152
02:38:31,650 --> 02:38:35,460
PBD 2026-39, the Northwest Secondary Plan.

153
02:38:35,460 --> 02:38:37,360
My parents are members of Club Italia.

154
02:38:41,730 --> 02:38:42,761
- Yes, Councillor Patel.

155
02:38:42,761 --> 02:38:43,890
(Mona speaking faintly)

156
02:38:43,890 --> 02:38:45,360
- A member of the Club Italia.

157
02:38:45,360 --> 02:38:46,770
And also in our official plan,

158
02:38:46,770 --> 02:38:48,930
there's a comment received from agency.

159
02:38:48,930 --> 02:38:51,900
It's a workplace of my spouse.

160
02:38:51,900 --> 02:38:54,210
- Okay. Thank you for that.

161
02:38:54,210 --> 02:38:56,220
I am also a member of Club Italia,

162
02:38:56,220 --> 02:38:59,100
but I wasn't informed
that it was a conflict,

163
02:38:59,100 --> 02:39:01,770
and it's up to the individual
to choose if they feel

164
02:39:01,770 --> 02:39:02,603
it's a conflict.

165
02:39:02,603 --> 02:39:05,580
Certainly not a pecuniary
interest, but just the same.

166
02:39:05,580 --> 02:39:08,460
I do want to be public and open about that

167
02:39:08,460 --> 02:39:10,170
as I chair this meeting.

168
02:39:10,170 --> 02:39:13,410
So if there's no further disclosures,

169
02:39:13,410 --> 02:39:17,088
we'll move along to everyone's
favorite part of the meeting.

170
02:39:17,088 --> 02:39:20,160
This is the mayor's
remarks and announcements,

171
02:39:20,160 --> 02:39:22,590
especially Councillor
Kerrio, he loves this part.

172
02:39:22,590 --> 02:39:24,840
Want to start off by
acknowledging the birthday

173
02:39:24,840 --> 02:39:26,430
of Councillor Strange.

174
02:39:26,430 --> 02:39:28,973
August the 6th. Happy
birthday, councillor.

175
02:39:28,973 --> 02:39:32,056
(audience applauds)

176
02:39:32,970 --> 02:39:35,820
Also, James Dowling from
our finance department,

177
02:39:35,820 --> 02:39:37,440
his birthday's tomorrow.

178
02:39:37,440 --> 02:39:39,930
And also Councillor Kerrio,

179
02:39:39,930 --> 02:39:41,910
whose birthday is August the 15th.

180
02:39:41,910 --> 02:39:43,646
Happy birthday, Councillor Kerrio.

181
02:39:43,646 --> 02:39:47,520
(audience applauds)

182
02:39:47,520 --> 02:39:50,460
So different events, and we do have photos

183
02:39:50,460 --> 02:39:53,340
for anyone that wants to
follow along on the screens.

184
02:39:53,340 --> 02:39:55,440
First, let's talk about the flood.

185
02:39:55,440 --> 02:39:59,070
I mean, we had a very
major wet weather event

186
02:39:59,070 --> 02:40:00,480
here in Niagara region.

187
02:40:00,480 --> 02:40:03,750
We had several in fact,
including in Niagara Falls.

188
02:40:03,750 --> 02:40:06,780
So many residents are still
dealing with a flood recovery.

189
02:40:06,780 --> 02:40:09,750
You'll see that we've had
pickups all around the city

190
02:40:09,750 --> 02:40:12,423
and the region, and it's
going to take a long time.

191
02:40:12,423 --> 02:40:13,620
It's going to take several months

192
02:40:13,620 --> 02:40:16,290
till we get caught up
and we get ahead of this.

193
02:40:16,290 --> 02:40:21,290
Many people lost valuable
or valuable personal items

194
02:40:21,480 --> 02:40:25,500
that had sentimental value,
damages to homes, to property.

195
02:40:25,500 --> 02:40:28,560
And in St. Catharines we're
reading about sinkholes

196
02:40:28,560 --> 02:40:31,890
and damage to the Martindale
Pond and many other things

197
02:40:31,890 --> 02:40:34,290
that water doesn't discriminate

198
02:40:34,290 --> 02:40:36,690
and it's affecting a lot of people.

199
02:40:36,690 --> 02:40:38,820
I want to compliment our staff

200
02:40:38,820 --> 02:40:40,530
who jumped into action immediately

201
02:40:40,530 --> 02:40:44,670
to create the Flood
Recovery Support Registry

202
02:40:44,670 --> 02:40:48,360
where people could register
on the city's website

203
02:40:48,360 --> 02:40:52,320
and have their flood damaged
items picked up at their curb.

204
02:40:52,320 --> 02:40:55,680
We had a pickup yesterday.
That took place.

205
02:40:55,680 --> 02:40:56,513
It was successful.

206
02:40:56,513 --> 02:40:58,170
And if you missed that one,

207
02:40:58,170 --> 02:41:01,350
you can register for
our second pickup date.

208
02:41:01,350 --> 02:41:04,710
So this is public information,
so please share this.

209
02:41:04,710 --> 02:41:06,810
We'll share this on
all of our social media

210
02:41:06,810 --> 02:41:08,670
and our print media.

211
02:41:08,670 --> 02:41:13,200
The next one, the sign up
must be done by this Thursday,

212
02:41:13,200 --> 02:41:16,650
August the 13th at 3:00 PM.

213
02:41:16,650 --> 02:41:20,990
The pickup will be the following
Monday, August the 17th,

214
02:41:20,990 --> 02:41:23,640
at the curb of your home.

215
02:41:23,640 --> 02:41:25,950
And it doesn't matter if it's drywall,

216
02:41:25,950 --> 02:41:30,950
if it's couches, if it's paper,

217
02:41:31,110 --> 02:41:33,720
it just can't be things like appliances.

218
02:41:33,720 --> 02:41:36,540
So if you've got fridges,
freezers, stoves,

219
02:41:36,540 --> 02:41:38,760
things like that, that's something else.

220
02:41:38,760 --> 02:41:42,960
But any damage from the
storm, carpeting, flooring,

221
02:41:42,960 --> 02:41:46,380
put it out, but make
sure sign up by Thursday,

222
02:41:46,380 --> 02:41:47,700
August the 13th.

223
02:41:47,700 --> 02:41:51,540
It will be picked up on
Monday, August the 17th.

224
02:41:51,540 --> 02:41:54,660
Families can also get
waste drop off passes,

225
02:41:54,660 --> 02:41:55,950
if you want to bring your own items

226
02:41:55,950 --> 02:41:58,980
to one of the Niagara region waste depots.

227
02:41:58,980 --> 02:42:01,500
So again, everything's
on the city website.

228
02:42:01,500 --> 02:42:05,040
We're directing everyone,
please go to the city's website.

229
02:42:05,040 --> 02:42:07,080
We're also supporting people displaced

230
02:42:07,080 --> 02:42:09,090
from surrounding communities.

231
02:42:09,090 --> 02:42:10,590
I know that we've got some residents

232
02:42:10,590 --> 02:42:12,780
that were displaced in St. Catharines,

233
02:42:12,780 --> 02:42:15,270
set up shop at the MacBain Centre,

234
02:42:15,270 --> 02:42:17,880
and we're doing our part as
a neighboring municipality

235
02:42:17,880 --> 02:42:19,020
to help out.

236
02:42:19,020 --> 02:42:22,290
So we are sending crews
for additional cleanups.

237
02:42:22,290 --> 02:42:24,738
As I mentioned, we're housing people

238
02:42:24,738 --> 02:42:27,720
in our community center, and
we're proud that Niagara Falls

239
02:42:27,720 --> 02:42:29,793
is stepping up and coming together.

240
02:42:30,990 --> 02:42:34,290
FIFA had their big watch
party bronze medal game

241
02:42:34,290 --> 02:42:36,600
in Queen Victoria Park.

242
02:42:36,600 --> 02:42:39,600
And then they had the gold
medal game, same place.

243
02:42:39,600 --> 02:42:41,010
It was pretty exciting.

244
02:42:41,010 --> 02:42:43,110
I was joined at the bronze medal game

245
02:42:43,110 --> 02:42:44,550
with Councillor Patel,

246
02:42:44,550 --> 02:42:47,910
and many thousands of people
came out to each game.

247
02:42:47,910 --> 02:42:50,730
It was a pretty exciting
event and a cool way

248
02:42:50,730 --> 02:42:53,010
to come together for the first ever

249
02:42:53,010 --> 02:42:56,010
World Cup held here in North America.

250
02:42:56,010 --> 02:42:57,240
And based on the success,

251
02:42:57,240 --> 02:42:59,820
I wouldn't be surprised it's
not going to be the last.

252
02:42:59,820 --> 02:43:02,760
We had a lot of extra guests
here from all over the world.

253
02:43:02,760 --> 02:43:05,580
We hosted people from
more than 175 countries

254
02:43:05,580 --> 02:43:08,910
from around the world, and World
Cup gave them a good excuse

255
02:43:08,910 --> 02:43:11,940
to come and get a taste of Niagara Falls.

256
02:43:11,940 --> 02:43:14,880
We had the Niagara Indian
Association gathering

257
02:43:14,880 --> 02:43:18,150
at Laura Secord Secondary
School in St. Catharines.

258
02:43:18,150 --> 02:43:20,370
It's a nonprofit charity organization

259
02:43:20,370 --> 02:43:21,203
serving all of Niagara,

260
02:43:21,203 --> 02:43:23,175
and I was joined by Councillors Patel,

261
02:43:23,175 --> 02:43:24,870
Lococo, and Nieuwesteeg.

262
02:43:24,870 --> 02:43:27,450
We had the Niagara Peninsula
Energy announcement

263
02:43:27,450 --> 02:43:30,667
at the Niagara Parks
Power Station last week.

264
02:43:30,667 --> 02:43:34,200
$2.7 million in federal funding

265
02:43:34,200 --> 02:43:37,230
will be going to Niagara Peninsula Energy.

266
02:43:37,230 --> 02:43:39,180
And this will be for smart renewables,

267
02:43:39,180 --> 02:43:42,270
electrification pathways programs.

268
02:43:42,270 --> 02:43:44,700
This will help for the
new smart grid equipment

269
02:43:44,700 --> 02:43:48,900
to help detect outages faster,
restore power more quickly,

270
02:43:48,900 --> 02:43:51,150
and keep electricity flowing reliably

271
02:43:51,150 --> 02:43:53,520
to homes and businesses.

272
02:43:53,520 --> 02:43:55,380
I was joined that day
by Councillor Strange,

273
02:43:55,380 --> 02:43:58,110
Lococo, Nieuwesteeg, and Patel.

274
02:43:58,110 --> 02:44:00,990
The Santa Congress, that's
right, you heard correctly,

275
02:44:00,990 --> 02:44:04,170
Santa Congress took place,

276
02:44:04,170 --> 02:44:07,770
it was Christmas in July
at the Old Stone Inn.

277
02:44:07,770 --> 02:44:11,010
As we know, it's the site
of the famous jingle bar

278
02:44:11,010 --> 02:44:11,970
over the holidays

279
02:44:11,970 --> 02:44:14,820
where we welcome more
than 40 different Santas

280
02:44:14,820 --> 02:44:17,550
to their market from all around the world.

281
02:44:17,550 --> 02:44:19,920
All different versions of Santas

282
02:44:19,920 --> 02:44:22,175
from different countries around the world.

283
02:44:22,175 --> 02:44:23,700
It was very interesting.

284
02:44:23,700 --> 02:44:26,550
We hosted the Mayor's
Cup Cricket Tournament

285
02:44:26,550 --> 02:44:27,990
where we had 10 teams,

286
02:44:27,990 --> 02:44:31,290
including visiting UK
Cricket Team, who competed.

287
02:44:31,290 --> 02:44:35,991
More than 500 spectators,
coaches, and family members.

288
02:44:35,991 --> 02:44:37,800
We had a lot of small business support,

289
02:44:37,800 --> 02:44:40,863
and I was joined by Councillor
Patel for that big event.

290
02:44:41,820 --> 02:44:45,150
We had the hundredth
anniversary of Canada's Legions.

291
02:44:45,150 --> 02:44:48,962
Congratulations this time
to the Local Region 396

292
02:44:48,962 --> 02:44:50,100
in Chippawa.

293
02:44:50,100 --> 02:44:54,120
We hosted an event in honor
of 100 years of service

294
02:44:54,120 --> 02:44:55,200
in Canada.

295
02:44:55,200 --> 02:44:59,160
I was joined by Councillors
Lococo, Patel and Nieuwesteeg.

296
02:44:59,160 --> 02:45:01,350
We also had an affair in the vineyard.

297
02:45:01,350 --> 02:45:03,360
We had it at Albert Zeppatelli's home

298
02:45:03,360 --> 02:45:05,010
in Niagara on the Lake.

299
02:45:05,010 --> 02:45:07,560
It's a charitable fundraiser
for the children's garden

300
02:45:07,560 --> 02:45:08,520
at Niagara Parks.

301
02:45:08,520 --> 02:45:10,890
I was joined by Councillor Nieuwesteeg.

302
02:45:10,890 --> 02:45:13,890
We also had the World
Squash Junior Championships

303
02:45:13,890 --> 02:45:14,790
at White Oaks.

304
02:45:14,790 --> 02:45:16,380
I was part of the medal ceremony

305
02:45:16,380 --> 02:45:20,670
as we welcomed great youth
championship squash players

306
02:45:20,670 --> 02:45:22,380
from all over the world.

307
02:45:22,380 --> 02:45:26,010
The Niagara Fiesta Extravaganza
took place at Fireman's Park

308
02:45:26,010 --> 02:45:28,290
celebrating Filipino heritage.

309
02:45:28,290 --> 02:45:29,640
I was joined by Councillor's Nieuwesteeg,

310
02:45:29,640 --> 02:45:31,530
Patel, Strange and Lococo.

311
02:45:31,530 --> 02:45:33,330
And thank you to all who took part.

312
02:45:33,330 --> 02:45:36,180
It was a very, very big event.
A lot of fun, lot of food.

313
02:45:37,290 --> 02:45:40,680
OLG had their community recognition event

314
02:45:40,680 --> 02:45:43,410
and a ribbon cutting
at Prince Charles Pool

315
02:45:43,410 --> 02:45:46,500
where some of the OLG funds are reinvested

316
02:45:46,500 --> 02:45:48,780
back into the community.

317
02:45:48,780 --> 02:45:51,930
And they were there to,
as I say, cut the ribbon.

318
02:45:51,930 --> 02:45:54,570
There were enhancements to
the new deck of the pool

319
02:45:54,570 --> 02:45:57,600
at Prince Charles Pool, as
well as the canopy over top,

320
02:45:57,600 --> 02:46:00,180
which was nice because
it was a very hot day.

321
02:46:00,180 --> 02:46:02,767
Joined by city councillors
Nieuwesteeg, Patel,

322
02:46:02,767 --> 02:46:04,113
Lococo and Baldinelli.

323
02:46:04,950 --> 02:46:08,370
Nike Elite Soccer Clinic took place

324
02:46:08,370 --> 02:46:11,070
at Mitchelson Park this past week.

325
02:46:11,070 --> 02:46:13,320
Incredible opportunities
for youth in sport

326
02:46:13,320 --> 02:46:15,390
and our community to learn and train

327
02:46:15,390 --> 02:46:18,120
with professionals involved in FIFA.

328
02:46:18,120 --> 02:46:21,510
So we did have some of these
experts join us that day.

329
02:46:21,510 --> 02:46:24,183
I was joined by Councillors
Lococo and Patel.

330
02:46:25,080 --> 02:46:27,838
Celebrity Classic Golf
Tournament took place

331
02:46:27,838 --> 02:46:30,750
at Thundering Waters where we raised money

332
02:46:30,750 --> 02:46:33,030
for Birchway Niagara.

333
02:46:33,030 --> 02:46:35,730
This was the Doug Gilmour event,

334
02:46:35,730 --> 02:46:37,620
and he invited a lot of his friends,

335
02:46:37,620 --> 02:46:41,070
including but not limited to.

336
02:46:41,070 --> 02:46:43,320
Sorry, we jumped ahead. There we go.

337
02:46:43,320 --> 02:46:45,540
That's Alan Frew in that
picture with Doug Gilmour.

338
02:46:45,540 --> 02:46:49,050
Alan Frew was the lead
singer of Glass Tiger.

339
02:46:49,050 --> 02:46:51,000
We had Tim Hicks.

340
02:46:51,000 --> 02:46:54,780
We had Rick Campinelli from ET Canada.

341
02:46:54,780 --> 02:46:58,702
Rick Vaive, Ernie Whitt,
former Blue Jays catcher.

342
02:46:58,702 --> 02:46:59,535
- [Council Member] Marcel Dionne.

343
02:46:59,535 --> 02:47:01,290
- Marcel Dionne, you see there.

344
02:47:01,290 --> 02:47:06,030
Alan Cross from 102.1 CFNY.

345
02:47:06,030 --> 02:47:10,110
And many other, and there's
two of the Trailer Park Boys.

346
02:47:10,110 --> 02:47:12,120
They've lost weight and
they're working out now.

347
02:47:12,120 --> 02:47:13,590
So they said they're not drinking

348
02:47:13,590 --> 02:47:14,880
as much whiskey these days.

349
02:47:14,880 --> 02:47:15,840
- [Council Member] It breaks their hands.

350
02:47:15,840 --> 02:47:18,360
- Yeah, no, they're drinking water now.

351
02:47:18,360 --> 02:47:20,400
So anyway, thanks to Doug Gilmour

352
02:47:20,400 --> 02:47:23,250
for doing this great event
in Niagara Falls again.

353
02:47:23,250 --> 02:47:27,360
Now we had our art
exhibition 2026 take place

354
02:47:27,360 --> 02:47:29,130
at The Exchange.

355
02:47:29,130 --> 02:47:32,010
And it's an annual event
where we honor artists

356
02:47:32,010 --> 02:47:33,630
and their supporters.

357
02:47:33,630 --> 02:47:35,220
So we presented a number of awards,

358
02:47:35,220 --> 02:47:37,620
including the Mayor's Choice Award.

359
02:47:37,620 --> 02:47:39,990
So there's a photo of that gentleman.

360
02:47:39,990 --> 02:47:43,233
His name is Godfrey Afebuame, Afebuame

361
02:47:46,050 --> 02:47:49,200
And Godfrey's piece of art was the one

362
02:47:49,200 --> 02:47:50,880
that I had selected as the mayor's.

363
02:47:50,880 --> 02:47:55,880
Maybe we can back up and show
the artwork. It's a colorful.

364
02:47:56,730 --> 02:47:57,570
No, it's not that one.

365
02:47:57,570 --> 02:47:59,670
Oh, do we not have a picture of that one?

366
02:47:59,670 --> 02:48:00,503
- [Council Member] Those
are the three we have.

367
02:48:00,503 --> 02:48:03,185
- Oh, okay, they didn't
send the one. Okay.

368
02:48:03,185 --> 02:48:04,166
(council member speaking faintly)

369
02:48:04,166 --> 02:48:04,999
All right. No problem.

370
02:48:04,999 --> 02:48:07,920
So anyway we're grateful to all the people

371
02:48:07,920 --> 02:48:10,080
who are recognized and thank
you to Councillor Lococo

372
02:48:10,080 --> 02:48:11,733
for joining me there that day.

373
02:48:12,750 --> 02:48:17,640
The mayor's Community Charity
Barbecue took place on Sunday.

374
02:48:17,640 --> 02:48:21,210
We welcomed thousands of
people. It was a big success.

375
02:48:21,210 --> 02:48:24,300
Thank you to all the city
council came that day.

376
02:48:24,300 --> 02:48:26,730
Thank you to all of you. It was sunny.

377
02:48:26,730 --> 02:48:28,350
The weather was great.

378
02:48:28,350 --> 02:48:31,440
We did it earlier this
year to not conflict

379
02:48:31,440 --> 02:48:33,480
with the election cycle.

380
02:48:33,480 --> 02:48:36,720
And the good thing about that,
there were no bees this time.

381
02:48:36,720 --> 02:48:38,940
So an advantage, instead
of doing it in September,

382
02:48:38,940 --> 02:48:40,590
early August, we don't have bees,

383
02:48:40,590 --> 02:48:43,080
but we had Avenue Inn band play.

384
02:48:43,080 --> 02:48:45,750
We had the car show, Zumba, vendors,

385
02:48:45,750 --> 02:48:48,076
ice cream and dessert trucks.

386
02:48:48,076 --> 02:48:49,200
50/50 draw.

387
02:48:49,200 --> 02:48:51,420
Our CAO won the 50/50 draw

388
02:48:51,420 --> 02:48:53,700
and donated it back to the hospital.

389
02:48:53,700 --> 02:48:57,870
So we did raise $35,000 that
day for our local hospital

390
02:48:57,870 --> 02:49:01,290
and our new hospice that
both are in the works

391
02:49:01,290 --> 02:49:03,600
and we're grateful for
everybody's participation.

392
02:49:03,600 --> 02:49:06,840
So thank you to all for who played a part.

393
02:49:06,840 --> 02:49:09,030
And when I can't be at all events,

394
02:49:09,030 --> 02:49:11,850
councillors have to help
represent me at different events.

395
02:49:11,850 --> 02:49:13,890
Can't be more than one place at once.

396
02:49:13,890 --> 02:49:16,920
So thank you to Councillor
Lococo representing the city

397
02:49:16,920 --> 02:49:20,010
at the Family Fun Fair at Willoughby Manor

398
02:49:20,010 --> 02:49:21,930
and the Africana International

399
02:49:21,930 --> 02:49:24,510
Health and Business Conference.

400
02:49:24,510 --> 02:49:26,550
Councillors Lococo, Patel and Nieuwesteeg,

401
02:49:26,550 --> 02:49:29,283
at the Mella Melna Da.

402
02:49:30,360 --> 02:49:31,440
Sorry, I'll try to slow down.

403
02:49:31,440 --> 02:49:33,480
I'll give you guys a chance to catch up.

404
02:49:33,480 --> 02:49:35,040
Councillor Patel representing the city

405
02:49:35,040 --> 02:49:37,710
at the Lundy's Lane
Historical Society Battle

406
02:49:37,710 --> 02:49:40,650
of Lundy's Lane Commemorative Service.

407
02:49:40,650 --> 02:49:42,720
Councillor Nieuwesteeg,
representing the city

408
02:49:42,720 --> 02:49:45,393
at the Golden Hour Gala.

409
02:49:46,530 --> 02:49:49,110
Do we have a picture
for that one? No. Okay.

410
02:49:49,110 --> 02:49:50,880
Councillors, you got
to send in the pictures

411
02:49:50,880 --> 02:49:51,930
if you want to put up.

412
02:49:51,930 --> 02:49:55,050
And we did have some business
milestones and events.

413
02:49:55,050 --> 02:49:58,530
University of Niagara Falls
had the ribbon cutting

414
02:49:58,530 --> 02:50:02,550
of the newly renovated
expansion on the fourth floor.

415
02:50:02,550 --> 02:50:06,510
It's exciting biomedical where they use AI

416
02:50:06,510 --> 02:50:11,327
in digital where they can dissect with AI

417
02:50:12,720 --> 02:50:15,780
and it's all done virtual
without actual cadavers.

418
02:50:15,780 --> 02:50:17,700
It was very interesting.

419
02:50:17,700 --> 02:50:19,470
Great Wolf, pardon me?

420
02:50:19,470 --> 02:50:21,030
- [Council Member] Can
we use those at council?

421
02:50:21,030 --> 02:50:22,830
- Yes, we definitely could (laughs).

422
02:50:24,330 --> 02:50:27,750
Great Wolf Lodge, we
presented them an award,

423
02:50:27,750 --> 02:50:32,340
recognizing 10 million
visitors, incredible.

424
02:50:32,340 --> 02:50:34,650
In 20 years, 10 million visitors,

425
02:50:34,650 --> 02:50:37,770
a great addition to the
offering in Niagara Falls.

426
02:50:37,770 --> 02:50:42,120
We had the grand opening at
McDonald's on Victoria Avenue.

427
02:50:42,120 --> 02:50:45,240
I was Mayor McCheese that day.

428
02:50:45,240 --> 02:50:48,660
Normally I'm Mayor McCheesey,
that day I was Mayor McCheese.

429
02:50:48,660 --> 02:50:50,310
Thank you to the Katz family

430
02:50:50,310 --> 02:50:52,410
for investing again in Niagara Falls.

431
02:50:52,410 --> 02:50:55,260
I believe they said this
is their 10th location

432
02:50:55,260 --> 02:50:56,370
here in Niagara.

433
02:50:56,370 --> 02:50:59,250
Thank you to Councillors Patel,
Baldinelli, and Nieuwesteeg,

434
02:50:59,250 --> 02:51:01,050
for making the grand opening.

435
02:51:01,050 --> 02:51:04,173
They're with Hamburglar and Grimace.

436
02:51:06,540 --> 02:51:09,090
Huh? It's busy. They're
doing well. That's good.

437
02:51:09,090 --> 02:51:11,430
So now we have Burger King,
Wendy's, and McDonald's

438
02:51:11,430 --> 02:51:12,263
all in that-

439
02:51:12,263 --> 02:51:13,710
- [Council Member] You
should have wore the tie.

440
02:51:13,710 --> 02:51:17,820
- The tie. He didn't offer
it to me. So but thank you.

441
02:51:17,820 --> 02:51:21,570
Patterson Funeral Home
had the reinstallation

442
02:51:21,570 --> 02:51:23,670
of the front flag pole.

443
02:51:23,670 --> 02:51:25,800
Of course, I was joined
by Councillor Nieuwesteeg

444
02:51:25,800 --> 02:51:28,380
for that along with our Legion members

445
02:51:28,380 --> 02:51:30,660
as the flag went up once again.

446
02:51:30,660 --> 02:51:32,910
Did you want to explain,
Councillor Nieuwesteeg,

447
02:51:32,910 --> 02:51:34,430
why we did that?

448
02:51:34,430 --> 02:51:35,640
Or what happened there?

449
02:51:35,640 --> 02:51:37,440
There used to be a flag at one time.

450
02:51:38,580 --> 02:51:40,200
Without all the details, but just.

451
02:51:40,200 --> 02:51:43,590
- Yeah, we used to have the
Canadian flag in a garden

452
02:51:43,590 --> 02:51:46,290
and as renovations happen,
things change over time.

453
02:51:46,290 --> 02:51:50,267
And we were looking through
old photos and it came back

454
02:51:50,267 --> 02:51:52,133
and we was like, "Oh, we're
going to recreate this."

455
02:51:52,133 --> 02:51:53,967
So that was basically that.

456
02:51:53,967 --> 02:51:56,040
And the Legion was very
generous with their time

457
02:51:56,040 --> 02:51:59,730
and coming and supporting
our day. Very Canadian.

458
02:51:59,730 --> 02:52:01,200
- [Jim] And that Patterson made a donation

459
02:52:01,200 --> 02:52:02,490
to the Legion as well.

460
02:52:02,490 --> 02:52:03,674
- Yes. Yes, we did.

461
02:52:03,674 --> 02:52:04,927
- Yeah, thank you for that councillor.

462
02:52:04,927 --> 02:52:08,070
"Destination Niagara
Magazine" had their launch

463
02:52:08,070 --> 02:52:10,803
at the Niagara Parks Power Station.

464
02:52:11,820 --> 02:52:15,797
And there it was. Congratulations
to Councillor Lococo.

465
02:52:16,920 --> 02:52:18,723
I was joined by Councillor Patel.

466
02:52:19,860 --> 02:52:22,830
The Indian Spice Route
had their grand opening

467
02:52:22,830 --> 02:52:26,490
on Centre Street and the
place looks beautiful.

468
02:52:26,490 --> 02:52:28,920
That sign alone is spectacular.

469
02:52:28,920 --> 02:52:30,570
They really put a lot of money into it.

470
02:52:30,570 --> 02:52:34,350
And I have to say, the food
was really, really good.

471
02:52:34,350 --> 02:52:37,053
Joined by Councillors
Patel and Nieuwesteeg.

472
02:52:37,890 --> 02:52:39,720
City Councillors Patel and Nieuwesteeg.

473
02:52:39,720 --> 02:52:44,670
And we had the Mobility Lab
Health Grand Opening yesterday

474
02:52:44,670 --> 02:52:47,400
on Dorchester Road in
the Boston Pizza Plaza.

475
02:52:47,400 --> 02:52:50,640
And I was joined by Councillors
Patel and Baldinelli.

476
02:52:50,640 --> 02:52:53,460
So congratulations to these new businesses

477
02:52:53,460 --> 02:52:55,110
opening in our community.

478
02:52:55,110 --> 02:52:57,390
And lastly, I think, is this lastly?

479
02:52:57,390 --> 02:52:58,413
Yes, lastly.

480
02:52:59,280 --> 02:53:02,580
Kashechewan First Nation sent us,

481
02:53:02,580 --> 02:53:04,080
and this should have been added,

482
02:53:04,080 --> 02:53:06,870
you may need to do a
refresh on your agendas,

483
02:53:06,870 --> 02:53:09,690
but this letter was
sent and I will read it.

484
02:53:09,690 --> 02:53:12,840
I joined Chief Wesley
last night for dinner.

485
02:53:12,840 --> 02:53:15,930
They're leaving today, their community.

486
02:53:15,930 --> 02:53:18,450
He was really grateful.

487
02:53:18,450 --> 02:53:22,440
So I was pleased to continue our dialogue,

488
02:53:22,440 --> 02:53:24,450
meet with the First Nations Chief

489
02:53:24,450 --> 02:53:26,280
before his community heads home.

490
02:53:26,280 --> 02:53:28,530
I was joined by Claudius from his council,

491
02:53:28,530 --> 02:53:30,423
one of the members of their council,

492
02:53:31,560 --> 02:53:33,750
and also members of our local team.

493
02:53:33,750 --> 02:53:36,810
Frank Ilya of the Indigenous
Relations Liaison Officer

494
02:53:36,810 --> 02:53:38,160
with the Niagara Regional Police.

495
02:53:38,160 --> 02:53:41,010
Chris Gallagher, our manager of our by-law

496
02:53:41,010 --> 02:53:43,200
who are working very closely together

497
02:53:43,200 --> 02:53:45,720
with our indigenous communities.

498
02:53:45,720 --> 02:53:48,210
Thank you to all of their hard work.

499
02:53:48,210 --> 02:53:50,820
And we received a heartfelt
letter that I'd like to read

500
02:53:50,820 --> 02:53:52,440
to everyone expressing their gratitude.

501
02:53:52,440 --> 02:53:54,123
This just came in this morning.

502
02:53:55,410 --> 02:53:59,850
And it comes from Chief Hosea Wesley,

503
02:53:59,850 --> 02:54:02,730
Council of Kashechewan First Nation.

504
02:54:02,730 --> 02:54:04,520
He says, "On behalf of
the Chief and Council

505
02:54:04,520 --> 02:54:06,420
of Kashechewan First Nation,

506
02:54:06,420 --> 02:54:09,600
we'd like to extend our heartfelt
gratitude to the residents

507
02:54:09,600 --> 02:54:11,670
of Niagara Falls and to Mayor Jim Diodati

508
02:54:11,670 --> 02:54:14,670
and the Council of the
City of Niagara Falls

509
02:54:14,670 --> 02:54:17,430
for welcoming our community
and providing eight months

510
02:54:17,430 --> 02:54:19,710
of wonderful hospitality.

511
02:54:19,710 --> 02:54:21,810
During this time, more than 1,200 members

512
02:54:21,810 --> 02:54:25,080
of Kashechewan First Nation
were hosted in Niagara Falls

513
02:54:25,080 --> 02:54:27,990
as evacuees for long-term displacement

514
02:54:27,990 --> 02:54:30,540
due to water contamination.

515
02:54:30,540 --> 02:54:33,030
Throughout our stay, our
community members experienced

516
02:54:33,030 --> 02:54:35,550
kindness, generosity, compassion,

517
02:54:35,550 --> 02:54:38,640
and respect from so many
people across Niagara.

518
02:54:38,640 --> 02:54:41,520
We're deeply grateful for the
warm welcome that was extended

519
02:54:41,520 --> 02:54:44,820
to our families, elders,
youth, and community members.

520
02:54:44,820 --> 02:54:47,820
Your support provided comfort
and a sense of belonging

521
02:54:47,820 --> 02:54:50,490
during what was a challenging
time for our community.

522
02:54:50,490 --> 02:54:52,980
The kindness shown to us
will not be forgotten.

523
02:54:52,980 --> 02:54:55,380
We're thankful for the
friendships, memories, connections

524
02:54:55,380 --> 02:54:57,780
that were made during our
eight months in Niagara Falls,

525
02:54:57,780 --> 02:55:00,810
to the residents, community
organizations, businesses,

526
02:55:00,810 --> 02:55:03,510
volunteers, and the
leadership of Niagara Falls.

527
02:55:03,510 --> 02:55:07,050
Chi-miigwech. Thank you from
the bottom of our hearts."

528
02:55:07,050 --> 02:55:09,810
So that was a very nice
letter from the chief.

529
02:55:09,810 --> 02:55:12,510
And he was sharing with
us last night at dinner,

530
02:55:12,510 --> 02:55:15,330
that at first when they got
here, the kids were sad.

531
02:55:15,330 --> 02:55:16,830
They didn't want to be here.

532
02:55:16,830 --> 02:55:18,540
They said, "We want to go home."

533
02:55:18,540 --> 02:55:21,570
And he said, they said
yesterday, "We're sad.

534
02:55:21,570 --> 02:55:24,480
We don't want to go home.
We want to stay here."

535
02:55:24,480 --> 02:55:26,220
They really enjoyed the stay here.

536
02:55:26,220 --> 02:55:28,800
I'm sure it's going to have
an impact on their futures.

537
02:55:28,800 --> 02:55:30,780
It was nice to have everybody here.

538
02:55:30,780 --> 02:55:34,380
And the chief invited me
to come up to visit them.

539
02:55:34,380 --> 02:55:38,280
But you can only fly there in the summer

540
02:55:38,280 --> 02:55:40,140
and you can only drive there in the winter

541
02:55:40,140 --> 02:55:41,520
because they build ice roads.

542
02:55:41,520 --> 02:55:43,350
Very interesting. They're very isolated.

543
02:55:43,350 --> 02:55:46,350
But the good news, their
water system has been rebuilt

544
02:55:46,350 --> 02:55:47,940
and they're looking forward.

545
02:55:47,940 --> 02:55:50,820
He said he misses more
than anything goose.

546
02:55:50,820 --> 02:55:53,220
They like to eat goose and moose.

547
02:55:53,220 --> 02:55:54,930
And I just realized that rhymes.

548
02:55:54,930 --> 02:55:58,470
So I'll let loose and
continue on with the meeting.

549
02:55:58,470 --> 02:55:59,700
I won't say any more rhymes.

550
02:55:59,700 --> 02:56:03,180
So next we're going to be
on a city council hiatus.

551
02:56:03,180 --> 02:56:06,210
Municipal election is
Monday, October 26th.

552
02:56:06,210 --> 02:56:09,330
Lot of excitement happening
in and around Ontario.

553
02:56:09,330 --> 02:56:11,700
So thank you to all for your patience

554
02:56:11,700 --> 02:56:15,154
as we went through the council notes.

555
02:56:15,154 --> 02:56:16,789
(council member speaking faintly)

556
02:56:16,789 --> 02:56:18,325
Yeah. Did you like, what was that?

557
02:56:18,325 --> 02:56:20,520
(council member speaking faintly)

558
02:56:20,520 --> 02:56:21,353
You know, the-

559
02:56:21,353 --> 02:56:22,643
- [Council Member] Or
someone might need a goose.

560
02:56:23,517 --> 02:56:24,350
- Oh, you know, thank
you for all your rhymes.

561
02:56:24,350 --> 02:56:25,533
That was very good.

562
02:56:27,000 --> 02:56:29,520
Okay, now we're moving
along to deputations

563
02:56:29,520 --> 02:56:31,440
and presentations.

564
02:56:31,440 --> 02:56:33,740
And we're going to 7.1.

565
02:56:34,920 --> 02:56:37,789
And I'm going to ask Mr. Clerk,

566
02:56:37,789 --> 02:56:39,540
I don't know if you're
going to introduce this

567
02:56:39,540 --> 02:56:41,870
or who's going to introduce 7.1.

568
02:56:45,450 --> 02:56:46,693
- Thanks, Mr. Mayor.

569
02:56:46,693 --> 02:56:48,240
The first deputation
that we have before us

570
02:56:48,240 --> 02:56:50,520
is Lori Beech and Tom Richardson.

571
02:56:50,520 --> 02:56:53,310
They're here on behalf
of Community Land Trust,

572
02:56:53,310 --> 02:56:54,420
and they're going to present to council

573
02:56:54,420 --> 02:56:57,540
regarding the work they're
doing in the community.

574
02:56:57,540 --> 02:56:59,913
- Thank you. Welcome.

575
02:57:06,720 --> 02:57:08,490
- Oh, okay. Great.

576
02:57:08,490 --> 02:57:12,390
Thank you. Hello all. Many familiar faces.

577
02:57:12,390 --> 02:57:14,520
Nice to see all of you again.

578
02:57:14,520 --> 02:57:17,543
I'm the Executive Director of Second Story

579
02:57:17,543 --> 02:57:20,190
Community Homes and Services,

580
02:57:20,190 --> 02:57:24,090
which was formerly Bethlehem
Housing and Support Services.

581
02:57:24,090 --> 02:57:25,200
We've gone through a rebranding,

582
02:57:25,200 --> 02:57:30,120
but I am here representing
the Community Land Trust

583
02:57:30,120 --> 02:57:33,870
of Niagara, which is a
new initiative to Niagara.

584
02:57:33,870 --> 02:57:38,610
And I really appreciate
allowing us to be here today

585
02:57:38,610 --> 02:57:43,610
to present it to you as
one of the new and trending

586
02:57:45,120 --> 02:57:46,950
solutions across the country.

587
02:57:46,950 --> 02:57:49,765
And we're looking at it here in Niagara.

588
02:57:49,765 --> 02:57:50,910
And I have brought my friend,

589
02:57:50,910 --> 02:57:55,020
and many of you know my
colleague and friend,

590
02:57:55,020 --> 02:57:58,350
Tom Richardson, you will
recognize that man's face

591
02:57:58,350 --> 02:58:00,060
and his name.

592
02:58:00,060 --> 02:58:03,080
He sits on the board of the
Community Land Trust of Niagara.

593
02:58:03,080 --> 02:58:07,710
So it gives you an idea
of him being involved

594
02:58:07,710 --> 02:58:10,170
and how important it is to all of us.

595
02:58:10,170 --> 02:58:12,303
So what is a land trust?

596
02:58:13,800 --> 02:58:18,800
A land trust is by definition
a nonprofit corporation

597
02:58:19,200 --> 02:58:22,410
created to acquire and hold land

598
02:58:22,410 --> 02:58:25,410
for a community for
the community's benefit

599
02:58:25,410 --> 02:58:30,410
and to support in our case,

600
02:58:30,960 --> 02:58:33,510
affordable housing in perpetuity.

601
02:58:33,510 --> 02:58:35,910
Land trusts are used for a
variety of other purposes,

602
02:58:35,910 --> 02:58:38,970
but for the Community
Land Trust of Niagara,

603
02:58:38,970 --> 02:58:42,423
it is for the purpose of
affordable housing sustainability.

604
02:58:43,560 --> 02:58:45,510
There are as I mentioned,

605
02:58:45,510 --> 02:58:48,720
it's a solution trend across the country.

606
02:58:48,720 --> 02:58:49,740
This says 47.

607
02:58:49,740 --> 02:58:52,110
We think there's probably
closer to 50 at this point

608
02:58:52,110 --> 02:58:53,610
or more.

609
02:58:53,610 --> 02:58:55,350
There is a network of
community land trusts

610
02:58:55,350 --> 02:58:58,020
across the country, but they
are being recognized now

611
02:58:58,020 --> 02:59:03,020
as a solution for
communities as a mechanism

612
02:59:04,860 --> 02:59:09,690
for collaboration around
affordable housing development,

613
02:59:09,690 --> 02:59:14,310
but also acquisitions to
protect affordable rents.

614
02:59:14,310 --> 02:59:17,280
And so it's a collaborative opportunity

615
02:59:17,280 --> 02:59:21,150
to work with governments,
community groups, developers,

616
02:59:21,150 --> 02:59:23,910
financial institutions,
and any other stakeholders

617
02:59:23,910 --> 02:59:27,060
or partners that have an interest in

618
02:59:27,060 --> 02:59:29,700
and a stake in affordable housing.

619
02:59:29,700 --> 02:59:33,660
And it's not only to make
a housing affordable,

620
02:59:33,660 --> 02:59:35,310
but attainable as well.

621
02:59:35,310 --> 02:59:40,170
And those two things are similar
but different in some ways,

622
02:59:40,170 --> 02:59:45,093
but it's also to ensure that
housing is affordable forever.

623
02:59:47,400 --> 02:59:48,450
Why in Niagara?

624
02:59:48,450 --> 02:59:51,630
I don't have to tell any
of you the reasons why.

625
02:59:51,630 --> 02:59:54,270
We are in not only a housing crisis,

626
02:59:54,270 --> 02:59:56,160
but an affordability crisis.

627
02:59:56,160 --> 03:00:01,160
And we, of course, cannot
at this point in time

628
03:00:02,760 --> 03:00:05,850
build affordable housing on our own

629
03:00:05,850 --> 03:00:07,860
as housing organizations.

630
03:00:07,860 --> 03:00:09,450
We have to build partnerships.

631
03:00:09,450 --> 03:00:11,430
We have to create collaboratives

632
03:00:11,430 --> 03:00:15,840
that can work with governments,
government programs,

633
03:00:15,840 --> 03:00:18,000
the federal government
program, the new programs

634
03:00:18,000 --> 03:00:19,920
that you've heard about,
Build Canada Homes,

635
03:00:19,920 --> 03:00:23,250
are not better or easier.

636
03:00:23,250 --> 03:00:28,250
They are complex because it
requires mobilizing capital

637
03:00:28,530 --> 03:00:31,980
and creating very complex
financial structures.

638
03:00:31,980 --> 03:00:34,620
So we as housing organizations
don't necessarily have

639
03:00:34,620 --> 03:00:36,330
the capacity to do that.

640
03:00:36,330 --> 03:00:37,980
That's where the land trust comes in,

641
03:00:37,980 --> 03:00:40,110
to be able to collaborate together

642
03:00:40,110 --> 03:00:45,110
and as a sort of a real
estate development group

643
03:00:45,180 --> 03:00:49,080
and collaborative and to
build financial structures

644
03:00:49,080 --> 03:00:52,890
so that we can participate
in those federal programs

645
03:00:52,890 --> 03:00:55,593
and other financial
programs to build housing.

646
03:00:58,320 --> 03:01:00,660
As you all know, again, I
don't have to tell you this,

647
03:01:00,660 --> 03:01:05,660
rent prices are well
up six percent in 2022.

648
03:01:05,970 --> 03:01:08,913
They've come down a bit, but
they're still extremely high.

649
03:01:11,254 --> 03:01:14,760
And current listings for an
average of for a two bedroom

650
03:01:14,760 --> 03:01:18,783
is up in the area of 1,800, 2,200.

651
03:01:20,040 --> 03:01:21,960
We all know, absolutely unaffordable.

652
03:01:21,960 --> 03:01:24,240
And some of you probably
have children at home

653
03:01:24,240 --> 03:01:27,150
that are adults that
should be on their own

654
03:01:27,150 --> 03:01:28,830
and can't afford to.

655
03:01:28,830 --> 03:01:31,320
So this affects not only
just the most vulnerable

656
03:01:31,320 --> 03:01:34,200
and lower income of our community anymore,

657
03:01:34,200 --> 03:01:35,643
it's affecting everyone.

658
03:01:37,260 --> 03:01:40,740
This is just a slide that
says a little bit about

659
03:01:40,740 --> 03:01:43,620
the wait list, which again, you all know.

660
03:01:43,620 --> 03:01:45,660
But the reason I put that in here

661
03:01:45,660 --> 03:01:48,930
is because it demonstrates to you

662
03:01:48,930 --> 03:01:53,460
that Niagara Regional Housing services

663
03:01:53,460 --> 03:01:57,540
the Niagara region is still
and continues to experience

664
03:01:57,540 --> 03:01:58,650
long wait lists.

665
03:01:58,650 --> 03:02:01,770
And that is partially because of...

666
03:02:01,770 --> 03:02:05,610
It's very largely because
of the some of the folks

667
03:02:05,610 --> 03:02:07,050
who have lived in Niagara Regional Housing

668
03:02:07,050 --> 03:02:10,410
for a very long time have
reached their maximum

669
03:02:10,410 --> 03:02:14,970
and have reached income levels,
but they have nowhere to go.

670
03:02:14,970 --> 03:02:17,730
So they're still in Niagara
Regional Housing units.

671
03:02:17,730 --> 03:02:20,790
So the region is very
interested in what we can do

672
03:02:20,790 --> 03:02:24,150
as a land trust to acquire buildings

673
03:02:24,150 --> 03:02:27,600
and work on development projects

674
03:02:27,600 --> 03:02:31,650
that meet that middle, not social housing,

675
03:02:31,650 --> 03:02:34,504
not deeply affordable necessarily.

676
03:02:34,504 --> 03:02:36,130
That's left to the region

677
03:02:37,646 --> 03:02:40,410
and community housing
organizations like ourselves.

678
03:02:40,410 --> 03:02:43,290
But the land trust is very
focused on what we call

679
03:02:43,290 --> 03:02:45,810
the missing middle, or that low market,

680
03:02:45,810 --> 03:02:48,510
non-market next level up.

681
03:02:48,510 --> 03:02:51,033
So that's where our interest lies.

682
03:02:55,290 --> 03:02:57,960
So as our vision and mission,

683
03:02:57,960 --> 03:03:00,900
it's about increasing
the supply of accessible,

684
03:03:00,900 --> 03:03:03,720
affordable, sustainable housing,

685
03:03:03,720 --> 03:03:07,680
and we do that through
acquiring and holding land

686
03:03:07,680 --> 03:03:10,440
and buildings in Niagara for the purpose

687
03:03:10,440 --> 03:03:12,360
of providing affordable housing.

688
03:03:12,360 --> 03:03:16,127
And it means, again, that we can support

689
03:03:18,150 --> 03:03:21,813
housing affordability in perpetuity,

690
03:03:22,860 --> 03:03:24,760
because that's the meaning of a trust.

691
03:03:25,770 --> 03:03:29,040
As I mentioned, our esteemed
colleague here, Tom Richardson,

692
03:03:29,040 --> 03:03:30,660
is one of our board members.

693
03:03:30,660 --> 03:03:35,340
And we like to say that we've formed

694
03:03:35,340 --> 03:03:40,340
a Blue Ribbon Committee on
our board that I like to say

695
03:03:40,798 --> 03:03:42,480
there are a lot of big
brains around the table

696
03:03:42,480 --> 03:03:45,490
that are very focused on this topic

697
03:03:47,097 --> 03:03:49,290
and housing in a variety of ways.

698
03:03:49,290 --> 03:03:50,943
We have Caleb Ratzlaff,

699
03:03:50,943 --> 03:03:55,080
is a councillor in City of St. Catharines.

700
03:03:55,080 --> 03:03:57,900
Myself, and we have
indigenous representation

701
03:03:57,900 --> 03:03:59,150
through Sarah Lukaszczyk.

702
03:04:00,826 --> 03:04:02,820
And some planners, accountants,

703
03:04:02,820 --> 03:04:06,870
and some of you that you, you
again, you would recognize

704
03:04:06,870 --> 03:04:09,810
their names and real estate developers.

705
03:04:09,810 --> 03:04:13,540
Also some others that are, for example

706
03:04:16,110 --> 03:04:19,920
Joanne Heritz, who is a
professor at Brock University

707
03:04:19,920 --> 03:04:22,140
looking at doing research on land trusts

708
03:04:22,140 --> 03:04:23,277
and what that looks like

709
03:04:23,277 --> 03:04:26,460
and the impact that we
would have here in Niagara.

710
03:04:26,460 --> 03:04:31,020
Our goals, very simple,
build, acquire, and support.

711
03:04:31,020 --> 03:04:33,600
So build new housing to add to the stock,

712
03:04:33,600 --> 03:04:38,220
acquire buildings and housing that exists

713
03:04:38,220 --> 03:04:42,210
to protect low rents
and prevent renovictions

714
03:04:42,210 --> 03:04:44,640
and support the housing organizations

715
03:04:44,640 --> 03:04:46,320
that we have already in Niagara.

716
03:04:46,320 --> 03:04:49,950
We're not here to create a
new housing organization.

717
03:04:49,950 --> 03:04:52,500
We're here to support the
ones that we already have.

718
03:04:52,500 --> 03:04:54,480
So for just a quick example,

719
03:04:54,480 --> 03:04:57,030
the land trust would own
the land and the property,

720
03:04:57,030 --> 03:04:59,100
perhaps do the building, do the acquiring,

721
03:04:59,100 --> 03:05:01,020
but the housing organizations
in the community

722
03:05:01,020 --> 03:05:04,680
such as ourselves and others
like the Y, like Gateway,

723
03:05:04,680 --> 03:05:06,840
they would operate the housing.

724
03:05:06,840 --> 03:05:08,763
So they are our partners as well.

725
03:05:10,530 --> 03:05:12,960
Now, the complexity of a trust

726
03:05:12,960 --> 03:05:17,220
includes the opportunity
to attract investment.

727
03:05:17,220 --> 03:05:19,800
As I mentioned, and I won't
get into details today,

728
03:05:19,800 --> 03:05:22,110
but I'm happy to answer
questions or of course,

729
03:05:22,110 --> 03:05:24,600
this is just an awareness
opportunity today.

730
03:05:24,600 --> 03:05:29,600
We can certainly take other
questions and talk about

731
03:05:29,700 --> 03:05:34,700
the complexities of a land
trust that includes fundraising,

732
03:05:35,130 --> 03:05:38,940
government programs,
equity collaboratives.

733
03:05:38,940 --> 03:05:42,360
Where we will share equity
to leverage the purchase

734
03:05:42,360 --> 03:05:46,800
or development through
again, financial structures.

735
03:05:46,800 --> 03:05:51,270
Do community bond calls, and again,

736
03:05:51,270 --> 03:05:53,910
attract social impact investors.

737
03:05:53,910 --> 03:05:55,860
So all that is within and that's the work

738
03:05:55,860 --> 03:05:57,540
that we've been doing over
the last couple of years,

739
03:05:57,540 --> 03:05:59,313
is building those structures.

740
03:06:00,420 --> 03:06:05,420
And that just gives us the
opportunity to respond to again,

741
03:06:05,910 --> 03:06:08,340
provide those complex deals

742
03:06:08,340 --> 03:06:11,043
that we need to build
housing and acquire housing.

743
03:06:12,390 --> 03:06:14,913
We have a first project
in the City of Welland.

744
03:06:16,680 --> 03:06:19,650
City of Welland has donated two properties

745
03:06:19,650 --> 03:06:22,830
to our first project on Crowther Avenue.

746
03:06:22,830 --> 03:06:26,160
And again, just not getting
into too much detail,

747
03:06:26,160 --> 03:06:29,430
but it will be 83 units altogether.

748
03:06:29,430 --> 03:06:31,110
40 units are for the land trust.

749
03:06:31,110 --> 03:06:33,873
They have donated the land for $3.

750
03:06:35,070 --> 03:06:39,180
And also provided grants
through their CIP program.

751
03:06:39,180 --> 03:06:42,510
So altogether, it's close
to $2 million contribution

752
03:06:42,510 --> 03:06:43,863
to our first project.

753
03:06:48,090 --> 03:06:50,523
And these are just all
the partners involved.

754
03:06:51,510 --> 03:06:55,320
Again, these kinds of
opportunities to develop

755
03:06:55,320 --> 03:06:58,860
affordable housing requires
a lot of partnerships.

756
03:06:58,860 --> 03:07:01,323
Again, a lot of big brains at the table,

757
03:07:02,734 --> 03:07:06,180
and those who can contribute.

758
03:07:06,180 --> 03:07:07,950
One I would like to point out

759
03:07:07,950 --> 03:07:09,780
is Niagara Community Foundation.

760
03:07:09,780 --> 03:07:12,690
We've worked with them to not only,

761
03:07:12,690 --> 03:07:15,240
they've given us an operating grant,

762
03:07:15,240 --> 03:07:20,240
but also a commitment towards
investments in each project

763
03:07:20,910 --> 03:07:23,583
towards soft costs and seed cost.

764
03:07:27,390 --> 03:07:31,350
I think I've probably
gone by my five minutes,

765
03:07:31,350 --> 03:07:33,900
but that was really hard for me,

766
03:07:33,900 --> 03:07:37,050
but when it comes to
housing I can talk a lot

767
03:07:37,050 --> 03:07:39,750
and for a very long time,
as some of you know.

768
03:07:39,750 --> 03:07:42,270
But thank you very much for
allowing us to be here today.

769
03:07:42,270 --> 03:07:43,830
- So we have a couple questions Lori.

770
03:07:43,830 --> 03:07:48,150
So I got Councillor Lococo,
Patel, and Nieuwesteeg.

771
03:07:48,150 --> 03:07:49,950
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Through the Mayor to Ms. Beech.

772
03:07:49,950 --> 03:07:51,960
Thank you so much for attending.

773
03:07:51,960 --> 03:07:54,300
I saw a video about three years ago

774
03:07:54,300 --> 03:07:57,930
from Councillor Ratzlaff,
and this really intrigued me,

775
03:07:57,930 --> 03:08:00,630
and I've always had it
in the back of my mind.

776
03:08:00,630 --> 03:08:02,880
So I just want to review what Welland did.

777
03:08:02,880 --> 03:08:06,480
So they have 83 units.

778
03:08:06,480 --> 03:08:09,540
And what was the investment from Welland?

779
03:08:09,540 --> 03:08:12,210
You said $2 million, but
how did that break down?

780
03:08:12,210 --> 03:08:14,113
How did that go?

781
03:08:14,113 --> 03:08:16,320
- Okay. It's the contribution of land.

782
03:08:16,320 --> 03:08:19,800
It's green space, so it's green fields

783
03:08:19,800 --> 03:08:24,150
and it's surplus property
that they have available.

784
03:08:24,150 --> 03:08:28,860
And they've contributed land
to other projects as well.

785
03:08:28,860 --> 03:08:32,130
The Hope Centre, Gateway, and ourselves,

786
03:08:32,130 --> 03:08:34,320
as well as the land trust.

787
03:08:34,320 --> 03:08:39,060
And in this case, they have
as I mentioned contributed

788
03:08:39,060 --> 03:08:42,183
the surplus land to purchase for $3.

789
03:08:44,040 --> 03:08:46,020
- Through the mayor,
so in addition to that,

790
03:08:46,020 --> 03:08:47,850
is there an operating grant?

791
03:08:47,850 --> 03:08:48,840
- That's right. That's right.

792
03:08:48,840 --> 03:08:52,350
So in addition to through
their CIP programs

793
03:08:52,350 --> 03:08:56,130
and other opportunities they
have an affordable housing

794
03:08:56,130 --> 03:08:58,680
committee, the advisory
committee to the council.

795
03:08:58,680 --> 03:09:01,230
And so everything is vetted through them,

796
03:09:01,230 --> 03:09:03,300
and then they were able to recommend

797
03:09:03,300 --> 03:09:06,780
that we receive other grants.

798
03:09:06,780 --> 03:09:09,090
So they have several
different grants available

799
03:09:09,090 --> 03:09:13,080
for affordable housing development
incentives, exemptions,

800
03:09:13,080 --> 03:09:17,610
property tax exemptions, and
development charge waivers,

801
03:09:17,610 --> 03:09:20,610
plus operating grants for five years.

802
03:09:20,610 --> 03:09:23,610
- So for a two million dollar
investment of 83 units,

803
03:09:23,610 --> 03:09:26,569
that's quite a return on
that two million dollars?

804
03:09:26,569 --> 03:09:27,402
- It certainly is.

805
03:09:27,402 --> 03:09:29,250
- Okay, I'll go back to that later on.

806
03:09:29,250 --> 03:09:31,830
How large of a piece of
a land would you need

807
03:09:31,830 --> 03:09:33,993
for a project like this?

808
03:09:35,314 --> 03:09:36,900
- We can work on any size of piece of land

809
03:09:36,900 --> 03:09:39,390
from an acre to three or four.

810
03:09:39,390 --> 03:09:42,660
This one happens to be almost four acres

811
03:09:42,660 --> 03:09:43,830
the one in Welland.

812
03:09:43,830 --> 03:09:47,110
- And how would the best way
for the City of Niagara Falls

813
03:09:48,120 --> 03:09:50,370
for us to support a project like this?

814
03:09:50,370 --> 03:09:52,800
What would you be looking for from us?

815
03:09:52,800 --> 03:09:54,750
How could we support you?

816
03:09:54,750 --> 03:09:59,670
- Something similar. Such
as land and surplus land.

817
03:09:59,670 --> 03:10:02,400
We hope to, we are going to be working

818
03:10:02,400 --> 03:10:03,810
with all the municipalities

819
03:10:03,810 --> 03:10:06,750
because all municipalities
have surplus land.

820
03:10:06,750 --> 03:10:09,130
And we would hope that city councils

821
03:10:11,333 --> 03:10:15,270
would see that as an opportunity
to contribute towards

822
03:10:15,270 --> 03:10:17,220
affordable housing development.

823
03:10:17,220 --> 03:10:18,630
And so that is certainly is one.

824
03:10:18,630 --> 03:10:22,136
And of course, I know you're
working on your CIP program

825
03:10:22,136 --> 03:10:24,900
and to build in the
incentives that we need

826
03:10:24,900 --> 03:10:27,450
to work together on solving this crisis.

827
03:10:27,450 --> 03:10:28,987
- Good. Thank you very much.

828
03:10:28,987 --> 03:10:33,780
And my last question for the,

829
03:10:33,780 --> 03:10:35,880
sorry, I've just lost my train of thought.

830
03:10:41,910 --> 03:10:43,530
For the two million dollars

831
03:10:43,530 --> 03:10:45,813
that was contributed into Welland,

832
03:10:46,950 --> 03:10:49,860
if we look at something similar to that,

833
03:10:49,860 --> 03:10:52,980
how fast does this project go?

834
03:10:52,980 --> 03:10:57,153
How long did it take for
an 83 unit to be built?

835
03:10:58,260 --> 03:10:59,726
What kind of timeline?

836
03:10:59,726 --> 03:11:01,230
- Okay. In all honesty, it's not built.

837
03:11:01,230 --> 03:11:04,143
It's just the beginning.
This is our first project.

838
03:11:05,550 --> 03:11:07,233
But what that does,

839
03:11:08,400 --> 03:11:10,440
again, without getting
into too much detail,

840
03:11:10,440 --> 03:11:13,377
the new programs through Build
Canada Homes, as I mentioned,

841
03:11:13,377 --> 03:11:15,840
are very complex.

842
03:11:15,840 --> 03:11:20,840
They are not like CMHC,
which is the previous

843
03:11:21,330 --> 03:11:22,770
federal housing programs.

844
03:11:22,770 --> 03:11:25,440
They are not the primary lender.

845
03:11:25,440 --> 03:11:26,910
They are the last.

846
03:11:26,910 --> 03:11:31,260
They are looking through their
goals to mobilize capital

847
03:11:31,260 --> 03:11:32,250
in the community,

848
03:11:32,250 --> 03:11:34,650
contributions through
municipal governments,

849
03:11:34,650 --> 03:11:38,100
in our case regional government,
as well as private sector.

850
03:11:38,100 --> 03:11:42,120
So that's what I meant by
very complex structured deals.

851
03:11:42,120 --> 03:11:47,120
And so these opportunities
to provide surplus lands

852
03:11:48,720 --> 03:11:53,720
plus grants are necessary
if you want to be a part of,

853
03:11:54,810 --> 03:11:58,380
and provide affordable housing
solutions in your community.

854
03:11:58,380 --> 03:12:01,590
This is the new world.
It's transformational.

855
03:12:01,590 --> 03:12:03,480
It is the way it is.

856
03:12:03,480 --> 03:12:06,000
Build Canada Homes and
the federal government

857
03:12:06,000 --> 03:12:08,700
are now the last mile.

858
03:12:08,700 --> 03:12:13,700
So we must all work together
to make these projects happen.

859
03:12:15,210 --> 03:12:17,790
- Okay. Thank you. I
remembered my question.

860
03:12:17,790 --> 03:12:21,060
When you're looking for land,
does it need to be serviceable

861
03:12:21,060 --> 03:12:24,420
and land ready, shovel
ready to move forward?

862
03:12:24,420 --> 03:12:25,620
- If you want to participate

863
03:12:25,620 --> 03:12:27,600
in the federal programs, absolutely.

864
03:12:27,600 --> 03:12:30,660
They're looking for
shovel-ready lands, de-risked,

865
03:12:30,660 --> 03:12:32,250
and ready to go.

866
03:12:32,250 --> 03:12:33,742
- Okay. Thank you.

867
03:12:33,742 --> 03:12:36,150
I when everyone has had a chance to speak,

868
03:12:36,150 --> 03:12:39,480
I'd like to put a motion forward
to accept the presentation

869
03:12:39,480 --> 03:12:42,900
and that our staff look into
it later on down the road.

870
03:12:42,900 --> 03:12:45,240
- Sounds good. You got in just
under your five-minute limit.

871
03:12:45,240 --> 03:12:46,320
Perfect timing. Okay.

872
03:12:46,320 --> 03:12:48,423
Councillor Patel, Nieuwesteeg. Dabrowski.

873
03:12:49,770 --> 03:12:51,270
- Thank you, Lori, for your presentation.

874
03:12:51,270 --> 03:12:52,950
And I want to thank everybody
who sits on the board

875
03:12:52,950 --> 03:12:56,070
who does this important work
actually in our community.

876
03:12:56,070 --> 03:12:58,680
My question is most of
my questions were asked

877
03:12:58,680 --> 03:13:01,770
by Councillor Lococo, so
I got most of the answers.

878
03:13:01,770 --> 03:13:03,930
One thing is, for example,
when you get the land

879
03:13:03,930 --> 03:13:05,640
as a donation, how long does it take

880
03:13:05,640 --> 03:13:09,270
for you to bring all the
stakeholders together

881
03:13:09,270 --> 03:13:11,670
to get some project like this going?

882
03:13:11,670 --> 03:13:13,770
Like in Welland you're doing
your first project right there.

883
03:13:13,770 --> 03:13:15,935
So how long does it take for you?

884
03:13:15,935 --> 03:13:17,070
- Thank you for asking that question.

885
03:13:17,070 --> 03:13:18,633
I'll go back to as well.

886
03:13:19,770 --> 03:13:24,510
Councillor Lococo had
asked how long it takes.

887
03:13:24,510 --> 03:13:26,460
These projects always take time.

888
03:13:26,460 --> 03:13:29,040
And they do require a lot of partnerships.

889
03:13:29,040 --> 03:13:32,850
So from the shovel ready,
we are in the process

890
03:13:32,850 --> 03:13:37,080
still with the Welland Project
with Build Canada Homes.

891
03:13:37,080 --> 03:13:39,030
We've had three meetings with them,

892
03:13:39,030 --> 03:13:40,980
but it's an iterative process.

893
03:13:40,980 --> 03:13:42,780
It's a back and forth continuously.

894
03:13:42,780 --> 03:13:45,600
Then they ask us to go back
and get this contribution,

895
03:13:45,600 --> 03:13:47,010
find that contribution.

896
03:13:47,010 --> 03:13:50,340
They're looking for contributions
towards the capital,

897
03:13:50,340 --> 03:13:53,190
develop capital construction stack.

898
03:13:53,190 --> 03:13:57,060
And so these things take time
and there's nothing guaranteed

899
03:13:57,060 --> 03:14:00,300
because they are not
providing the funding upfront

900
03:14:00,300 --> 03:14:02,070
even for supportive housing.

901
03:14:02,070 --> 03:14:04,230
It all has to be financed.

902
03:14:04,230 --> 03:14:06,180
So these things do take time,

903
03:14:06,180 --> 03:14:09,030
but once those approvals take place,

904
03:14:09,030 --> 03:14:11,220
the other thing that Build
Canada Homes is looking for,

905
03:14:11,220 --> 03:14:13,170
is modern methods of construction.

906
03:14:13,170 --> 03:14:16,320
So we've had to look
at those opportunities

907
03:14:16,320 --> 03:14:18,150
and those levers for a project

908
03:14:18,150 --> 03:14:19,610
because they're looking for that as well.

909
03:14:19,610 --> 03:14:22,500
So it's a tall order that
the federal government

910
03:14:22,500 --> 03:14:23,333
is looking for.

911
03:14:23,333 --> 03:14:26,350
So again, we have to have
construction partners

912
03:14:27,660 --> 03:14:30,540
that are looking at modern
methods of construction

913
03:14:30,540 --> 03:14:32,460
that can help save time and save costs.

914
03:14:32,460 --> 03:14:35,583
Primarily right now, not
so much cost, but time.

915
03:14:36,510 --> 03:14:39,750
So that helps to, once you
have a project ready to go,

916
03:14:39,750 --> 03:14:44,400
you can see a project be
completed within 18 months.

917
03:14:44,400 --> 03:14:45,917
- Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor.

918
03:14:45,917 --> 03:14:47,760
If you're one partner all in,

919
03:14:47,760 --> 03:14:49,917
for example, city with their CIP grants

920
03:14:49,917 --> 03:14:51,810
and maybe donation of the land.

921
03:14:51,810 --> 03:14:53,520
If you're one partner all in,

922
03:14:53,520 --> 03:14:55,799
it's easier to attract other people.

923
03:14:55,799 --> 03:14:58,890
- That's right. That's right.
It's not any one partner.

924
03:14:58,890 --> 03:15:00,930
So land is just the start.

925
03:15:00,930 --> 03:15:02,027
- Okay. Yeah, you're right.

926
03:15:02,027 --> 03:15:03,930
It has to start somewhere, right?

927
03:15:03,930 --> 03:15:05,580
- That's right. We can't do anything.

928
03:15:05,580 --> 03:15:07,560
We can't communicate with
the federal government

929
03:15:07,560 --> 03:15:10,560
if we don't have a piece
of land that's ready to go.

930
03:15:10,560 --> 03:15:13,437
- And just the one last
question is the Welland project.

931
03:15:13,437 --> 03:15:15,395
So who will be managing the project?

932
03:15:15,395 --> 03:15:16,590
I know you said YMCA,

933
03:15:16,590 --> 03:15:19,440
but would that be run through
Niagara Regional Housing?

934
03:15:19,440 --> 03:15:22,710
And how would they pick the
tenant who's going to get there?

935
03:15:22,710 --> 03:15:24,560
- Thank you for asking that question.

936
03:15:25,950 --> 03:15:28,410
So as I mentioned in my presentation,

937
03:15:28,410 --> 03:15:30,390
the Land Trust will own the land.

938
03:15:30,390 --> 03:15:33,120
A community housing organization
will operate the project.

939
03:15:33,120 --> 03:15:35,610
So that's going to be us in this case.

940
03:15:35,610 --> 03:15:40,610
But I mentioned the others
because in future opportunities,

941
03:15:40,710 --> 03:15:43,140
they could be the partners
as well to operate

942
03:15:43,140 --> 03:15:45,180
the housing side of things, so.

943
03:15:45,180 --> 03:15:46,800
- Thank you.
- Okay.

944
03:15:46,800 --> 03:15:49,170
- Thank you. Councillor Nieuwesteeg.

945
03:15:49,170 --> 03:15:50,220
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

946
03:15:50,220 --> 03:15:51,630
Thank you for the presentation,

947
03:15:51,630 --> 03:15:52,950
the great work that you do,

948
03:15:52,950 --> 03:15:54,420
but I'm looking for some clarity.

949
03:15:54,420 --> 03:15:57,450
So, I understand Niagara Regional Housing

950
03:15:57,450 --> 03:15:59,730
is responsible for housing.

951
03:15:59,730 --> 03:16:03,510
So what gap or what problem
are you coming in to solve

952
03:16:03,510 --> 03:16:07,590
that they, in my opinion, that
should be their mandate here?

953
03:16:07,590 --> 03:16:10,290
So obviously there's a gap
that's opened the opportunity

954
03:16:10,290 --> 03:16:13,590
or that you've recognized and
said we need to fill that.

955
03:16:13,590 --> 03:16:15,610
So if you can just help me to understand

956
03:16:16,860 --> 03:16:19,950
why are we not solving this
and how can we count on you

957
03:16:19,950 --> 03:16:23,550
to solve this issue that
we're faced with today?

958
03:16:23,550 --> 03:16:27,090
- Okay, and if it's okay,
I will provide clarity

959
03:16:27,090 --> 03:16:29,460
to correct you just a little bit.

960
03:16:29,460 --> 03:16:33,990
Niagara Regional Housing is
responsible for social housing,

961
03:16:33,990 --> 03:16:36,820
government housing,
deeply affordable housing

962
03:16:37,770 --> 03:16:41,880
and supportive housing
that meets the needs

963
03:16:41,880 --> 03:16:46,000
of very low income or vulnerable or people

964
03:16:47,813 --> 03:16:52,597
with a variety of challenges
through homelessness services.

965
03:16:56,306 --> 03:16:57,330
But, there's a housing continuum.

966
03:16:57,330 --> 03:16:59,670
Are you familiar with
the housing continuum

967
03:16:59,670 --> 03:17:03,393
that starts with crisis,
supportive and transitional?

968
03:17:05,077 --> 03:17:07,590
We have a whole bunch of
subcategories in there now

969
03:17:07,590 --> 03:17:12,590
that start at non-market, low
market, affordable housing.

970
03:17:14,191 --> 03:17:16,290
Some of that housing is supportive

971
03:17:16,290 --> 03:17:18,570
which is the type of
housing that we provide,

972
03:17:18,570 --> 03:17:21,360
but it's at that not
what we call non-market,

973
03:17:21,360 --> 03:17:23,250
but not deeply affordable.

974
03:17:23,250 --> 03:17:26,430
So there's a variety of
levels of affordability.

975
03:17:26,430 --> 03:17:30,210
And so others are
responsible for that level.

976
03:17:30,210 --> 03:17:34,830
So Niagara Regional Housing
also provides housing programs.

977
03:17:34,830 --> 03:17:36,480
So rent subsidy programs,

978
03:17:36,480 --> 03:17:38,640
housing allowances, housing benefits.

979
03:17:38,640 --> 03:17:41,250
They administer all of that,
but also in partnership

980
03:17:41,250 --> 03:17:44,040
with community housing
organizations like ours

981
03:17:44,040 --> 03:17:48,630
to provide housing for the
more vulnerable, lower income.

982
03:17:48,630 --> 03:17:51,060
Where what we're talking about here

983
03:17:51,060 --> 03:17:56,060
is that next stage or that next
level of rents and incomes.

984
03:17:58,830 --> 03:18:01,890
So that we call it the,
sort of that missing middle

985
03:18:01,890 --> 03:18:04,170
because that's the piece that's missing.

986
03:18:04,170 --> 03:18:07,800
It's the type of housing that, again,

987
03:18:07,800 --> 03:18:11,640
your adult children are
not getting access to

988
03:18:11,640 --> 03:18:13,260
because it's not affordable.

989
03:18:13,260 --> 03:18:16,140
So the more we have,
the more stock we have,

990
03:18:16,140 --> 03:18:21,133
the more protections we can
provide for lower rents.

991
03:18:23,220 --> 03:18:27,780
That through pure economics
just drives the rents down

992
03:18:27,780 --> 03:18:29,520
or stabilizes them.

993
03:18:29,520 --> 03:18:33,030
But we are able to,
through those partnerships,

994
03:18:33,030 --> 03:18:36,930
through driving capital
cost of development down,

995
03:18:36,930 --> 03:18:39,570
we can offer those low rents.

996
03:18:39,570 --> 03:18:41,550
But it's a game of math.

997
03:18:41,550 --> 03:18:44,550
It has to be lower the
capital development costs,

998
03:18:44,550 --> 03:18:47,460
so that the service
costs, the operating costs

999
03:18:47,460 --> 03:18:49,950
can be managed at low rents,

1000
03:18:49,950 --> 03:18:52,380
so low revenues to
operate those buildings.

1001
03:18:52,380 --> 03:18:54,480
Again, it gets pretty complex.

1002
03:18:54,480 --> 03:18:55,313
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1003
03:18:55,313 --> 03:18:56,146
- Does that help you?

1004
03:18:56,146 --> 03:18:56,979
- It absolutely does.

1005
03:18:56,979 --> 03:18:58,290
- Okay.
- Next question.

1006
03:18:58,290 --> 03:19:00,360
So is there a time limit that the...

1007
03:19:00,360 --> 03:19:03,150
So it sounds like you're a
bridge program to helping people

1008
03:19:03,150 --> 03:19:04,110
get to that next step.

1009
03:19:04,110 --> 03:19:08,700
Is there a time limit that when
you evaluate who is eligible

1010
03:19:08,700 --> 03:19:10,320
to rent in one of these,

1011
03:19:10,320 --> 03:19:12,840
or is that one of the
agencies that will be?

1012
03:19:12,840 --> 03:19:16,920
- So eligibility, there's
different ways and means,

1013
03:19:16,920 --> 03:19:19,500
and I know that was part of
Councillor Patel's question

1014
03:19:19,500 --> 03:19:20,333
as well.

1015
03:19:20,333 --> 03:19:21,900
Again, that's complex.

1016
03:19:21,900 --> 03:19:26,900
So for example social
housing or housing available

1017
03:19:27,240 --> 03:19:31,020
through the region is
through their wait list,

1018
03:19:31,020 --> 03:19:32,910
which is what the one I put up there.

1019
03:19:32,910 --> 03:19:37,470
Where we, as housing organizations
that provide non-market

1020
03:19:37,470 --> 03:19:39,360
and lower rent or supportive housing

1021
03:19:39,360 --> 03:19:42,720
or transitional housing, we
work with and in partnership

1022
03:19:42,720 --> 03:19:45,270
with the Niagara Regional Housing Services

1023
03:19:45,270 --> 03:19:47,340
and the homelessness services

1024
03:19:47,340 --> 03:19:49,800
to house those more vulnerable folks,

1025
03:19:49,800 --> 03:19:53,343
access and advocate for rent subsidies.

1026
03:19:54,618 --> 03:19:57,300
And so, and yes, those things do take,

1027
03:19:57,300 --> 03:20:01,263
but that's all part of
what we do as operators.

1028
03:20:02,550 --> 03:20:04,560
Absolutely, but there
would be kind of a time.

1029
03:20:04,560 --> 03:20:07,290
So if you're helping, you
know, that you're talking,

1030
03:20:07,290 --> 03:20:08,640
you referenced adult children.

1031
03:20:08,640 --> 03:20:10,517
So you're helping them until
they can get on their feet.

1032
03:20:10,517 --> 03:20:12,753
- Right. But there's
no time limit to that.

1033
03:20:14,220 --> 03:20:18,720
So things like social
housing, government housing,

1034
03:20:18,720 --> 03:20:20,650
that's supposed to be temporary

1035
03:20:21,630 --> 03:20:24,450
until affordability can be reached.

1036
03:20:24,450 --> 03:20:27,030
Same with transitional housing,

1037
03:20:27,030 --> 03:20:30,090
community government nonprofit housing.

1038
03:20:30,090 --> 03:20:33,210
Some of those housing programs
have time limits on them.

1039
03:20:33,210 --> 03:20:35,010
But what we're talking about

1040
03:20:35,010 --> 03:20:37,980
is permanent affordable housing.

1041
03:20:37,980 --> 03:20:41,160
So that just, you know, the
natural course of things

1042
03:20:41,160 --> 03:20:43,230
where people move in and
move out on their own.

1043
03:20:43,230 --> 03:20:44,550
- And through you, Mr.
Mayor, thank you for the-

1044
03:20:44,550 --> 03:20:45,660
- I hope that helped.
- Because this is

1045
03:20:45,660 --> 03:20:47,910
a unique project we haven't seen.

1046
03:20:47,910 --> 03:20:49,443
And, so I just want to understand.

1047
03:20:49,443 --> 03:20:50,303
- Oh, we need new initiatives.

1048
03:20:50,303 --> 03:20:53,540
- Yeah. No, very, very good.
And thank you for that.

1049
03:20:53,540 --> 03:20:55,852
- Again, through you, Mayor,
thank you very, very much.

1050
03:20:55,852 --> 03:20:56,685
- We have one more.

1051
03:20:56,685 --> 03:20:57,518
- Oh, I'm sorry. Okay.

1052
03:20:57,518 --> 03:20:59,130
- We've got, and just made it. Okay.

1053
03:20:59,130 --> 03:21:00,450
- All right.
- Councillor Dabrowski.

1054
03:21:00,450 --> 03:21:02,370
- [Chris] Yeah. Thank you for
your presentation through you.

1055
03:21:02,370 --> 03:21:04,170
I'm trying to understand how we turn this

1056
03:21:04,170 --> 03:21:07,590
from a concept into
actual affordable units.

1057
03:21:07,590 --> 03:21:08,423
- That's what we're working on.

1058
03:21:08,423 --> 03:21:12,690
- What are you asking from
our municipality specifically?

1059
03:21:12,690 --> 03:21:15,210
And realistically, with that,

1060
03:21:15,210 --> 03:21:16,800
how many affordable housing units

1061
03:21:16,800 --> 03:21:18,210
do you think that could produce?

1062
03:21:18,210 --> 03:21:19,740
And then my second question,

1063
03:21:19,740 --> 03:21:21,510
do you work with Habitat for Humanity

1064
03:21:21,510 --> 03:21:23,010
or with them or for them?

1065
03:21:23,010 --> 03:21:25,260
But if you can help me understand that

1066
03:21:25,260 --> 03:21:26,610
and give me some insight.

1067
03:21:26,610 --> 03:21:28,650
Councillor Lococo mentioned
she'll bring forward

1068
03:21:28,650 --> 03:21:31,920
a motion that might
help me with some ideas

1069
03:21:31,920 --> 03:21:33,210
on whether or not I could support it.

1070
03:21:33,210 --> 03:21:34,530
But I think it's a great concept.

1071
03:21:34,530 --> 03:21:36,660
I'm just trying to understand
how as a municipality,

1072
03:21:36,660 --> 03:21:38,760
how it fits with our current model.

1073
03:21:38,760 --> 03:21:41,550
- Okay. I'll try to unpack.

1074
03:21:41,550 --> 03:21:43,290
I think I heard two questions in there.

1075
03:21:43,290 --> 03:21:45,420
So make sure I don't forget the-

1076
03:21:45,420 --> 03:21:46,980
- What are you specifically.

1077
03:21:46,980 --> 03:21:48,960
I know it's an awareness presentation.

1078
03:21:48,960 --> 03:21:50,880
But what are you looking for from us?

1079
03:21:50,880 --> 03:21:53,190
And what will that in turn produce

1080
03:21:53,190 --> 03:21:57,000
in terms of units of affordable housing?

1081
03:21:57,000 --> 03:21:58,440
- Sky's the limit.

1082
03:21:58,440 --> 03:22:03,440
But having said that land is
what we would like to partner

1083
03:22:04,020 --> 03:22:06,210
with the municipality on.

1084
03:22:06,210 --> 03:22:09,690
And that's not today. That's
not an answer for today.

1085
03:22:09,690 --> 03:22:12,210
But we hope that today is about awareness

1086
03:22:12,210 --> 03:22:15,000
and about being able to move forward.

1087
03:22:15,000 --> 03:22:18,300
I know there's an election and
there's things will change.

1088
03:22:18,300 --> 03:22:22,950
But today is about getting
our information out there

1089
03:22:22,950 --> 03:22:25,980
to all of you and providing clarity,

1090
03:22:25,980 --> 03:22:30,960
providing understanding, and a bit of hope

1091
03:22:30,960 --> 03:22:33,150
about an opportunity going forward.

1092
03:22:33,150 --> 03:22:34,980
We at the Land Trust have been working

1093
03:22:34,980 --> 03:22:38,820
for the last couple of years
to establish the organization.

1094
03:22:38,820 --> 03:22:42,360
It's an incorporated
not-for-profit organization

1095
03:22:42,360 --> 03:22:46,500
with a well-established board
at this point of, as I said,

1096
03:22:46,500 --> 03:22:49,650
very good representation.

1097
03:22:49,650 --> 03:22:51,450
We've been spending a
lot of time learning.

1098
03:22:51,450 --> 03:22:53,340
It takes time to develop all this,

1099
03:22:53,340 --> 03:22:55,953
but we want to have
projects at the same time.

1100
03:22:56,910 --> 03:23:01,770
So once you have land, as I
mentioned, it does take time.

1101
03:23:01,770 --> 03:23:03,123
Whether it's one acre.

1102
03:23:04,080 --> 03:23:05,940
I have a building that's
on one acre of land

1103
03:23:05,940 --> 03:23:08,310
and has 127 units.

1104
03:23:08,310 --> 03:23:11,751
So I think you know that we're, you know,

1105
03:23:11,751 --> 03:23:13,740
it's always a good interest to a good idea

1106
03:23:13,740 --> 03:23:17,340
to build up so that we
can maximize the use

1107
03:23:17,340 --> 03:23:18,173
of a piece of land.

1108
03:23:18,173 --> 03:23:23,150
So really, we're open to
exploring with you as a partner.

1109
03:23:24,900 --> 03:23:28,140
And that's what we're
looking for. Habitat?

1110
03:23:28,140 --> 03:23:31,440
Habitat for Humanity are our partners.

1111
03:23:31,440 --> 03:23:34,590
In terms of not exactly
working with us in the...

1112
03:23:34,590 --> 03:23:36,930
But they're our partners
in the service system.

1113
03:23:36,930 --> 03:23:38,583
And we all work together.

1114
03:23:39,750 --> 03:23:43,050
Mark, the ED is actually...

1115
03:23:43,050 --> 03:23:44,790
We've been talking to him about being

1116
03:23:44,790 --> 03:23:46,500
a part of the land trust,

1117
03:23:46,500 --> 03:23:48,780
and they're just trying to
figure it out at this point.

1118
03:23:48,780 --> 03:23:50,400
They're about affordable home ownership.

1119
03:23:50,400 --> 03:23:52,980
So that's that continuum that I mentioned

1120
03:23:52,980 --> 03:23:56,040
that has all those
sub-sectors all the way along.

1121
03:23:56,040 --> 03:23:58,560
And they're all about home ownership,

1122
03:23:58,560 --> 03:24:00,660
which we're all about too.

1123
03:24:00,660 --> 03:24:02,700
But we haven't delved into that part.

1124
03:24:02,700 --> 03:24:05,400
Our mission right now is about the missing

1125
03:24:05,400 --> 03:24:06,713
middle affordable rental.

1126
03:24:06,713 --> 03:24:09,120
- Okay. Thank you. Okay.
- Does that help?

1127
03:24:09,120 --> 03:24:11,641
Does that answer your question? Thank you.

1128
03:24:11,641 --> 03:24:14,059
- Any other questions
or comments of council?

1129
03:24:14,059 --> 03:24:15,987
So we'll go to Councillor Lococo.

1130
03:24:15,987 --> 03:24:16,820
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1131
03:24:16,820 --> 03:24:19,800
The motion I would put
forward is that we received

1132
03:24:19,800 --> 03:24:24,800
the report and that staff
work with the land trust

1133
03:24:24,870 --> 03:24:29,850
to discuss opportunities
for this type of build.

1134
03:24:29,850 --> 03:24:32,190
What kind of land we could offer.

1135
03:24:32,190 --> 03:24:35,250
I know in the past we've been
going through all of our land,

1136
03:24:35,250 --> 03:24:37,830
so I think we're already close to that.

1137
03:24:37,830 --> 03:24:39,210
So that would be the motion

1138
03:24:39,210 --> 03:24:41,340
that we just have that
information and bring it back

1139
03:24:41,340 --> 03:24:42,600
to the next term of council.

1140
03:24:42,600 --> 03:24:46,182
- Okay. So I got Councillor
Patel, you're seconding it.

1141
03:24:46,182 --> 03:24:48,323
Do you want to speak to the
motion Councillor Dabrowski?

1142
03:24:48,323 --> 03:24:50,970
- Back to my question.
What does it mean for us?

1143
03:24:50,970 --> 03:24:53,220
How many affordable
units will that produce?

1144
03:24:53,220 --> 03:24:54,720
So if we can include that
as part of the motion.

1145
03:24:54,720 --> 03:24:56,005
I'm sure it's part of
the planning research.

1146
03:24:56,005 --> 03:24:56,955
- That was part of what I.

1147
03:24:56,955 --> 03:24:57,788
Yeah, that's part of the planning research

1148
03:24:57,788 --> 03:24:58,621
- I just want to make sure.

1149
03:24:58,621 --> 03:25:00,600
And again, I was going
back to the investment.

1150
03:25:00,600 --> 03:25:04,050
If you get $2 million for
83 units like Welland did,

1151
03:25:04,050 --> 03:25:08,070
that's a huge investment in
comparison to giving $2 million

1152
03:25:08,070 --> 03:25:09,990
maybe to a different type of program

1153
03:25:09,990 --> 03:25:11,610
and you might get 15 units.

1154
03:25:11,610 --> 03:25:16,610
So that's part of the opportunity
to research. Thank you.

1155
03:25:17,940 --> 03:25:20,120
- And then we just ask that you
consider that. That's great.

1156
03:25:20,120 --> 03:25:22,523
- In the past, we've given
land to Habitat for Humanity

1157
03:25:22,523 --> 03:25:23,880
as well to build units.

1158
03:25:23,880 --> 03:25:27,150
So I mean, it's a practice
we've followed for many years.

1159
03:25:27,150 --> 03:25:28,740
So if there's no further
questions or comments,

1160
03:25:28,740 --> 03:25:29,573
we'll call the vote.

1161
03:25:29,573 --> 03:25:30,510
All those in favor.

1162
03:25:30,510 --> 03:25:31,620
Okay. And that's unanimous.

1163
03:25:31,620 --> 03:25:32,730
Thank you very much, Lori.

1164
03:25:32,730 --> 03:25:34,980
Thank you very much, Tom, for being here.

1165
03:25:34,980 --> 03:25:37,260
The legal living legend. He came with you.

1166
03:25:37,260 --> 03:25:39,310
That's good. Thank you for being here.

1167
03:25:39,310 --> 03:25:41,420
- Thank you so much. Thank you.

1168
03:25:41,420 --> 03:25:42,443
- Thank you very much.

1169
03:25:43,740 --> 03:25:46,770
So Mr. Clerk, I see
Pathstone's on the agenda,

1170
03:25:46,770 --> 03:25:48,570
but I don't know if we have.

1171
03:25:48,570 --> 03:25:50,765
Oh, is Sean here?

1172
03:25:50,765 --> 03:25:51,598
- [Council Member] No. He's not.

1173
03:25:51,598 --> 03:25:52,890
- Oh, okay. Sean's not here.

1174
03:25:52,890 --> 03:25:56,100
All right. Well, then step right up.

1175
03:25:56,100 --> 03:25:59,730
So we had him on the agenda
speaking. So we've got Marla.

1176
03:25:59,730 --> 03:26:00,840
Actually, I shouldn't say who it is.

1177
03:26:00,840 --> 03:26:03,000
I'm guessing Marla and Ken or?

1178
03:26:03,000 --> 03:26:04,874
- You got Marla and Ken. Yes.

1179
03:26:04,874 --> 03:26:05,707
- Marla and Ken, okay.

1180
03:26:05,707 --> 03:26:07,500
So if you want to introduce yourselves

1181
03:26:07,500 --> 03:26:09,660
and we try to keep it to five minutes.

1182
03:26:09,660 --> 03:26:11,056
- Thank you, yeah.

1183
03:26:11,056 --> 03:26:11,889
Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1184
03:26:11,889 --> 03:26:15,030
Thank you members of council
for having us here today.

1185
03:26:15,030 --> 03:26:17,310
We very much appreciate the opportunity

1186
03:26:17,310 --> 03:26:19,830
to come and speak to you, to
tell you about the good work

1187
03:26:19,830 --> 03:26:21,030
that Pathstone's doing,

1188
03:26:21,030 --> 03:26:23,130
and talk about a partnership opportunity

1189
03:26:23,130 --> 03:26:24,810
that you're already working on

1190
03:26:24,810 --> 03:26:28,260
with the Willoughby
Chippawa Community Centre

1191
03:26:28,260 --> 03:26:29,730
that's taking place.

1192
03:26:29,730 --> 03:26:32,190
So I'm going to let my colleague, Ken,

1193
03:26:32,190 --> 03:26:34,410
tell you a little bit about Pathstone

1194
03:26:34,410 --> 03:26:35,793
to familiarize yourself.

1195
03:26:38,490 --> 03:26:41,220
- Good morning, mayor, members
of council. I'm Ken Chan.

1196
03:26:41,220 --> 03:26:44,790
I have been on the Pathstone
Foundation Board since 2021,

1197
03:26:44,790 --> 03:26:47,280
and I chaired the governance committee.

1198
03:26:47,280 --> 03:26:50,610
What we are seeking today
is your support in principle

1199
03:26:50,610 --> 03:26:53,400
for development of a new
Pathstone Mental Health Campus

1200
03:26:53,400 --> 03:26:56,820
of Care at the Chippawa Willoughby site.

1201
03:26:56,820 --> 03:27:01,820
We're not asking for any funding
as any future requirements

1202
03:27:02,580 --> 03:27:04,410
will be done through fundraising

1203
03:27:04,410 --> 03:27:07,020
for both our capital and operating costs.

1204
03:27:07,020 --> 03:27:09,810
Just a quick overview
in terms of who we are.

1205
03:27:09,810 --> 03:27:12,060
For over 50 years, Pathstone Mental Health

1206
03:27:12,060 --> 03:27:14,370
has been providing much
needed compassionate

1207
03:27:14,370 --> 03:27:16,530
mental health support
for children and youth

1208
03:27:16,530 --> 03:27:19,980
across the region, including
here in Niagara Falls.

1209
03:27:19,980 --> 03:27:22,350
And as a member of the board
with Pathstone Foundation,

1210
03:27:22,350 --> 03:27:25,920
we are very privileged and
honored to be raising the funds

1211
03:27:25,920 --> 03:27:28,613
to enable the care that's much needed

1212
03:27:28,613 --> 03:27:32,910
as well as supporting spaces
where care is delivered.

1213
03:27:32,910 --> 03:27:34,260
I'll turn over to Marla,

1214
03:27:34,260 --> 03:27:37,770
to speak a bit more about the trends.

1215
03:27:37,770 --> 03:27:40,140
- Yeah, so like Ken mentioned,
for more than 50 years,

1216
03:27:40,140 --> 03:27:42,510
Pathstone's been supporting
children and youth

1217
03:27:42,510 --> 03:27:45,150
with mental health
supports across Niagara.

1218
03:27:45,150 --> 03:27:49,350
15 years ago, that looked
like 300 kids approximately

1219
03:27:49,350 --> 03:27:51,480
from the Niagara community.

1220
03:27:51,480 --> 03:27:54,930
Where we are today, we're,
you know, around 850 kids

1221
03:27:54,930 --> 03:27:59,930
and projections for us into
2035 bring us to 13,000 kids.

1222
03:28:00,630 --> 03:28:02,490
And I know that you know the intricacies

1223
03:28:02,490 --> 03:28:03,660
of your city the best,

1224
03:28:03,660 --> 03:28:06,150
and you're familiar with the growing needs

1225
03:28:06,150 --> 03:28:07,470
and different types of people

1226
03:28:07,470 --> 03:28:09,210
that are coming to the community.

1227
03:28:09,210 --> 03:28:13,500
And so that's why we see
this as an important step

1228
03:28:13,500 --> 03:28:15,003
for us moving forward.

1229
03:28:15,960 --> 03:28:17,820
The other thing that we really notice

1230
03:28:17,820 --> 03:28:21,720
is that the biggest barrier to families,

1231
03:28:21,720 --> 03:28:24,570
especially specifically
in the Niagara region,

1232
03:28:24,570 --> 03:28:27,930
to participating in care is transportation

1233
03:28:27,930 --> 03:28:31,020
and where location and
services are being offered.

1234
03:28:31,020 --> 03:28:35,820
Currently, we have our main
location in St. Catharines,

1235
03:28:35,820 --> 03:28:38,820
but we do not have a
location in Niagara Falls.

1236
03:28:38,820 --> 03:28:42,240
And because of that, we
are seeing a 17% decline

1237
03:28:42,240 --> 03:28:45,360
in cancellation and no-show
rates from residents

1238
03:28:45,360 --> 03:28:47,820
in the Niagara Falls community.

1239
03:28:47,820 --> 03:28:50,790
And what that really
means is those individuals

1240
03:28:50,790 --> 03:28:52,590
don't have access to the care.

1241
03:28:52,590 --> 03:28:54,300
They're not getting that access.

1242
03:28:54,300 --> 03:28:57,300
And there are many reasons
why that's taking place.

1243
03:28:57,300 --> 03:28:59,970
One, we know barriers to transportation.

1244
03:28:59,970 --> 03:29:04,590
We know that managing, being
able to get to and from

1245
03:29:04,590 --> 03:29:07,260
appointments is difficult and complex.

1246
03:29:07,260 --> 03:29:09,240
And so we really want to have a solution

1247
03:29:09,240 --> 03:29:12,540
to be able to address, one,
the growing needs of children

1248
03:29:12,540 --> 03:29:15,960
and families in Niagara Falls,

1249
03:29:15,960 --> 03:29:19,803
as well as being able to
say we're delivering support

1250
03:29:19,803 --> 03:29:21,873
in a community organization.

1251
03:29:25,410 --> 03:29:26,363
Oh, this is me.

1252
03:29:29,700 --> 03:29:32,190
So this is where we think the opportunity

1253
03:29:32,190 --> 03:29:33,960
really becomes exciting.

1254
03:29:33,960 --> 03:29:36,750
The city is already making
an investment in creating

1255
03:29:36,750 --> 03:29:40,350
a community hub where families
will come for recreation,

1256
03:29:40,350 --> 03:29:42,480
learning and community programming.

1257
03:29:42,480 --> 03:29:44,820
We believe children's
mental health belongs

1258
03:29:44,820 --> 03:29:46,500
in that conversation.

1259
03:29:46,500 --> 03:29:49,800
Imagine a community where a
family doesn't have to navigate

1260
03:29:49,800 --> 03:29:52,980
a series of disconnected
systems to get the support

1261
03:29:52,980 --> 03:29:54,420
that they need.

1262
03:29:54,420 --> 03:29:57,000
Instead, within one community destination,

1263
03:29:57,000 --> 03:30:02,000
there can be recreation,
learning, community programming,

1264
03:30:02,250 --> 03:30:05,643
and dedication to children's
mental health services.

1265
03:30:06,695 --> 03:30:09,630
Pathstone can provide counselling,
walk-in mental health,

1266
03:30:09,630 --> 03:30:13,530
outreach, family supports
all in one environment.

1267
03:30:13,530 --> 03:30:15,780
And there's something else
that's very important.

1268
03:30:15,780 --> 03:30:18,360
It normalizes mental health.

1269
03:30:18,360 --> 03:30:20,640
A child doesn't have to
feel like they're being sent

1270
03:30:20,640 --> 03:30:23,640
to a separate building or stigmatized

1271
03:30:23,640 --> 03:30:25,080
because they need help.

1272
03:30:25,080 --> 03:30:28,800
Mental health becomes
part of the community.

1273
03:30:28,800 --> 03:30:32,610
It becomes part of the same
conversation as physical health,

1274
03:30:32,610 --> 03:30:36,480
recreation, education,
and family wellness.

1275
03:30:36,480 --> 03:30:40,440
That message for children and
families and strategically,

1276
03:30:40,440 --> 03:30:43,293
it creates an opportunity
for collaboration.

1277
03:30:44,528 --> 03:30:46,830
Pathstone doesn't need to
duplicate what's happening

1278
03:30:46,830 --> 03:30:50,673
in the community, we can be
a part of the same ecosystem.

1279
03:30:52,110 --> 03:30:52,943
- Thank you, Marla.

1280
03:30:52,943 --> 03:30:54,600
And what you see there's a rendering

1281
03:30:54,600 --> 03:30:55,950
of the proposed building.

1282
03:30:55,950 --> 03:30:59,340
I know it's still early
days and as a board,

1283
03:30:59,340 --> 03:31:02,040
we believe that once we get a signal

1284
03:31:02,040 --> 03:31:03,870
in terms of whether or
not this is a possibility,

1285
03:31:03,870 --> 03:31:05,190
and then we'll begin the due diligence,

1286
03:31:05,190 --> 03:31:07,230
including working with Sean and Marla

1287
03:31:07,230 --> 03:31:09,540
on the fundraising initiative.

1288
03:31:09,540 --> 03:31:11,700
So really we're here today

1289
03:31:11,700 --> 03:31:15,060
to see if there's opportunity
for us to work with you

1290
03:31:15,060 --> 03:31:17,250
on creating a legacy project.

1291
03:31:17,250 --> 03:31:18,930
The benefits for the
City of Niagara Falls,

1292
03:31:18,930 --> 03:31:22,260
including stronger health
and social infrastructure,

1293
03:31:22,260 --> 03:31:24,390
better access for Niagara Falls families,

1294
03:31:24,390 --> 03:31:27,960
and a long-term community
asset that will remain

1295
03:31:27,960 --> 03:31:29,910
for the community for years to come.

1296
03:31:29,910 --> 03:31:32,550
With that, we'll stop there
and take any questions.

1297
03:31:32,550 --> 03:31:33,692
Thank you.

1298
03:31:33,692 --> 03:31:34,525
- Great. Thank you.

1299
03:31:34,525 --> 03:31:35,700
First, we've got Councillor Nieuwesteeg

1300
03:31:35,700 --> 03:31:37,050
and then Councillor Lococo.

1301
03:31:39,540 --> 03:31:42,900
- Actually, mine's not so much
a question, but a comment.

1302
03:31:42,900 --> 03:31:44,730
Do you want to have a
question first, or? Okay.

1303
03:31:44,730 --> 03:31:46,028
- So we don't have a...

1304
03:31:46,028 --> 03:31:47,730
Are there any questions
of the presenters first?

1305
03:31:47,730 --> 03:31:50,250
Okay, Councillor Patel.
Okay, we'll go to you.

1306
03:31:50,250 --> 03:31:51,870
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor,
and thank you Marla,

1307
03:31:51,870 --> 03:31:53,670
and thank you, Ken, for presentation.

1308
03:31:53,670 --> 03:31:56,040
I have a question that, you
know, lots of insurances

1309
03:31:56,040 --> 03:32:01,040
do cover certain I think
sessions for family members.

1310
03:32:01,110 --> 03:32:04,320
And lots of time when young
kids are seeking help,

1311
03:32:04,320 --> 03:32:07,080
parents have a hard time trusting certain

1312
03:32:07,080 --> 03:32:09,480
you know service providers.

1313
03:32:09,480 --> 03:32:11,130
Have you ever thought of the hybrid model

1314
03:32:11,130 --> 03:32:13,950
that will Pathstone will ever
integrate in a hybrid model

1315
03:32:13,950 --> 03:32:18,657
where you can have paid and
a free system altogether?

1316
03:32:18,657 --> 03:32:21,060
- So Pathstone doesn't operate
on a fee for service model.

1317
03:32:21,060 --> 03:32:25,380
We do get support from the
Ministry of Social Services

1318
03:32:25,380 --> 03:32:28,560
and Health to be able to
deliver that programming

1319
03:32:28,560 --> 03:32:29,553
free of charge.

1320
03:32:30,450 --> 03:32:33,240
- What I mean, have you ever
thought of doing a hybrid ever,

1321
03:32:33,240 --> 03:32:36,009
like, you know, for somebody who wants to?

1322
03:32:36,009 --> 03:32:37,380
(speaks faintly) Slim picking.

1323
03:32:37,380 --> 03:32:39,930
If you think about you
know, youth counseling,

1324
03:32:39,930 --> 03:32:42,450
there's very little that you can get.

1325
03:32:42,450 --> 03:32:46,230
- Yeah, so that isn't a part of the plans

1326
03:32:46,230 --> 03:32:47,130
moving forward.

1327
03:32:47,130 --> 03:32:48,003
- Okay thank you.

1328
03:32:48,930 --> 03:32:49,763
- Okay, thank you.

1329
03:32:49,763 --> 03:32:51,330
So if there's no further questions,

1330
03:32:51,330 --> 03:32:53,040
maybe we can get a motion.

1331
03:32:53,040 --> 03:32:53,873
Someone want to make one?

1332
03:32:53,873 --> 03:32:57,210
Councillor Nieuwesteeg and
then Councillor Lococo.

1333
03:32:57,210 --> 03:33:00,207
So you can may move to
receive the presentation

1334
03:33:00,207 --> 03:33:02,430
and then maybe speak to it now.

1335
03:33:02,430 --> 03:33:04,620
- Yes, I have a motion,
but prior to my motion,

1336
03:33:04,620 --> 03:33:06,780
I just want to speak to-

1337
03:33:06,780 --> 03:33:07,920
- You said you have a motion?

1338
03:33:07,920 --> 03:33:08,790
- I do have a motion.

1339
03:33:08,790 --> 03:33:10,050
- So let's put that on the floor.

1340
03:33:10,050 --> 03:33:10,883
And then we can speak to it.

1341
03:33:10,883 --> 03:33:12,090
- All right. Very good.

1342
03:33:12,090 --> 03:33:14,310
Okay, so I'm pleased to bring forward

1343
03:33:14,310 --> 03:33:16,620
a motion asking council
to endorse in principle

1344
03:33:16,620 --> 03:33:18,660
the inclusion of Pathstone Mental Health

1345
03:33:18,660 --> 03:33:22,380
within the Chippawa
Willoughby Community Centre.

1346
03:33:22,380 --> 03:33:24,240
This is an opportunity
to bring an essential

1347
03:33:24,240 --> 03:33:27,120
children's mental health service
directly into our community

1348
03:33:27,120 --> 03:33:28,740
and alongside the recreation,

1349
03:33:28,740 --> 03:33:30,300
library and community service

1350
03:33:30,300 --> 03:33:33,990
that is being planned for
this important development.

1351
03:33:33,990 --> 03:33:36,390
Pathstone's not asking the
taxpayers of Niagara Falls

1352
03:33:36,390 --> 03:33:37,620
to fund this project.

1353
03:33:37,620 --> 03:33:39,510
Pathstone Foundation intends to raise

1354
03:33:39,510 --> 03:33:41,970
the necessary philanthropic
funding to develop

1355
03:33:41,970 --> 03:33:43,560
and equip the space.

1356
03:33:43,560 --> 03:33:45,360
What we are asking for
today is an endorsement

1357
03:33:45,360 --> 03:33:47,940
of principle and an
opportunity to continue working

1358
03:33:47,940 --> 03:33:50,940
with the city staff to determine
whether approximately 6,000

1359
03:33:50,940 --> 03:33:53,940
square feet dedicate
children's mental health space

1360
03:33:53,940 --> 03:33:55,770
can be incorporated into the project.

1361
03:33:55,770 --> 03:33:57,930
This endorsement does not
commit the city to funding,

1362
03:33:57,930 --> 03:34:00,870
construction, or lease
of any future agreement.

1363
03:34:00,870 --> 03:34:03,120
Those matters would come back
to council for consideration

1364
03:34:03,120 --> 03:34:04,500
as the partnership develops.

1365
03:34:04,500 --> 03:34:06,150
What we're asking council to do today

1366
03:34:06,150 --> 03:34:08,460
is recognize the importance
of children's mental health

1367
03:34:08,460 --> 03:34:10,680
to our community and give
Pathstone and the city

1368
03:34:10,680 --> 03:34:13,630
opportunity to work together
to make this vision a reality.

1369
03:34:15,013 --> 03:34:17,367
- Okay, great. And also to
receive the presentation.

1370
03:34:17,367 --> 03:34:19,140
- And to receive the presentation.

1371
03:34:19,140 --> 03:34:20,550
- Second by Councillor Lococo.

1372
03:34:20,550 --> 03:34:21,383
Okay, great.

1373
03:34:21,383 --> 03:34:22,873
And I do want to speak to it.

1374
03:34:22,873 --> 03:34:24,060
- Yeah, go ahead.

1375
03:34:24,060 --> 03:34:25,613
- Why I'm very passionate about this

1376
03:34:25,613 --> 03:34:28,860
and I'm really excited
that Pathstone's doing it.

1377
03:34:28,860 --> 03:34:30,420
What we're seeing on our streets today

1378
03:34:30,420 --> 03:34:31,680
is very heartbreaking.

1379
03:34:31,680 --> 03:34:35,550
We see drug addiction,
homelessness, and mental health.

1380
03:34:35,550 --> 03:34:37,770
And we've been around
this table so many times

1381
03:34:37,770 --> 03:34:40,710
with so many presentations
asking what we can do

1382
03:34:40,710 --> 03:34:43,560
because it is absolutely
disturbing and heartbreaking.

1383
03:34:43,560 --> 03:34:46,230
And there is no solution.
We do not see a solution.

1384
03:34:46,230 --> 03:34:48,240
The only thing that can
come close to a solution

1385
03:34:48,240 --> 03:34:49,650
would be prevention.

1386
03:34:49,650 --> 03:34:50,970
And that's what I'm seeing here

1387
03:34:50,970 --> 03:34:54,930
is that we're looking at
investing in prevention.

1388
03:34:54,930 --> 03:34:58,290
And why I like the Chippawa arena

1389
03:34:58,290 --> 03:35:00,210
I believe children mental health services

1390
03:35:00,210 --> 03:35:01,740
belong in the heart of the community.

1391
03:35:01,740 --> 03:35:04,590
And I believe that the
children's mental health

1392
03:35:04,590 --> 03:35:07,860
or Willoughby's Community
Centre is ideal for that.

1393
03:35:07,860 --> 03:35:09,780
In discussions, I'm part of this group,

1394
03:35:09,780 --> 03:35:12,600
so that's why I'm speaking to it.

1395
03:35:12,600 --> 03:35:14,087
We looked at where we could have it.

1396
03:35:14,087 --> 03:35:19,087
And at the first site was to
have it on a very busy road

1397
03:35:19,230 --> 03:35:20,730
and more like an institution.

1398
03:35:20,730 --> 03:35:23,100
And the community did not
feel strong about that.

1399
03:35:23,100 --> 03:35:25,680
It was, again, bringing in that stigma.

1400
03:35:25,680 --> 03:35:28,560
And we want children and
families to feel comfortable.

1401
03:35:28,560 --> 03:35:30,510
And the more we can de-stigmatize

1402
03:35:30,510 --> 03:35:33,480
and make it part of natural
wellbeing, hopefully,

1403
03:35:33,480 --> 03:35:36,480
hopefully this is one part of the solution

1404
03:35:36,480 --> 03:35:39,810
that we no longer see and
will not see in the future.

1405
03:35:39,810 --> 03:35:42,780
Children, people living on
the streets like they are.

1406
03:35:42,780 --> 03:35:45,030
So anything we can do to support this

1407
03:35:45,030 --> 03:35:46,620
as a preventative measure,

1408
03:35:46,620 --> 03:35:50,190
I think it's a step in the
right direction for prevention.

1409
03:35:50,190 --> 03:35:53,250
A step for compassion, a
step for Niagara Falls.

1410
03:35:53,250 --> 03:35:56,403
So I'm very pleased to support this.

1411
03:35:57,420 --> 03:35:59,460
- Thank you for that, Councillor.

1412
03:35:59,460 --> 03:36:01,320
Was there anyone else who
wanted to speak to this?

1413
03:36:01,320 --> 03:36:03,330
No? Councillor Strange.

1414
03:36:03,330 --> 03:36:04,230
- Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1415
03:36:04,230 --> 03:36:05,790
Thank you for the presentation.

1416
03:36:05,790 --> 03:36:07,260
And thank you Councillor Nieuwesteeg

1417
03:36:07,260 --> 03:36:08,160
for getting involved in this.

1418
03:36:08,160 --> 03:36:09,630
I think it's so important.

1419
03:36:09,630 --> 03:36:11,160
And like you guys said, you know,

1420
03:36:11,160 --> 03:36:14,015
there is a stigma about mental health.

1421
03:36:14,015 --> 03:36:16,290
And we do have to think some other ways

1422
03:36:16,290 --> 03:36:18,450
of kind of involving mental health

1423
03:36:18,450 --> 03:36:20,220
in every day for children.

1424
03:36:20,220 --> 03:36:21,600
You know, it should be part of the sports,

1425
03:36:21,600 --> 03:36:23,250
part of recreation,

1426
03:36:23,250 --> 03:36:26,460
part of don't leave it
as a separate building.

1427
03:36:26,460 --> 03:36:31,230
You know, if we do this as
part of our Chippawa arena

1428
03:36:31,230 --> 03:36:33,570
community center, it should
be involved in everything,

1429
03:36:33,570 --> 03:36:35,010
including the library, whatever it is,

1430
03:36:35,010 --> 03:36:36,240
include mental health.

1431
03:36:36,240 --> 03:36:38,070
We worry about our
physical health so much.

1432
03:36:38,070 --> 03:36:39,600
We worry about nutrients and everything,

1433
03:36:39,600 --> 03:36:40,800
taking care of your body.

1434
03:36:40,800 --> 03:36:42,360
And the mental health
should be part of that.

1435
03:36:42,360 --> 03:36:43,650
So thank you for that.

1436
03:36:43,650 --> 03:36:45,150
- [Ruth-Ann] Thank you.

1437
03:36:45,150 --> 03:36:46,590
- Well said.

1438
03:36:46,590 --> 03:36:48,660
Okay, if there's no further
questions or comments,

1439
03:36:48,660 --> 03:36:49,493
let's call the vote.

1440
03:36:49,493 --> 03:36:51,930
All those instead, together unanimous.

1441
03:36:51,930 --> 03:36:52,763
Thank you very much.

1442
03:36:52,763 --> 03:36:54,061
Instead. Instead.

1443
03:36:54,061 --> 03:36:54,894
- Instead.

1444
03:36:54,894 --> 03:36:55,830
- Thank you.
- Thank you.

1445
03:36:55,830 --> 03:36:56,663
- Thank you.

1446
03:36:58,865 --> 03:37:00,990
You know, I can't even get
away with one little mistake,

1447
03:37:00,990 --> 03:37:03,540
you know?
- 'Cause you wouldn't let us.

1448
03:37:03,540 --> 03:37:06,603
- You're very right about
that. You've got the?

1449
03:37:09,030 --> 03:37:10,971
Mr. Clerk, do you have the issue?

1450
03:37:10,971 --> 03:37:15,138
(Council member speaking faintly)

1451
03:37:16,080 --> 03:37:17,250
Do you want to just announce it then?

1452
03:37:17,250 --> 03:37:20,127
Mr. Clerk, could you direct
us on where (laughs).

1453
03:37:22,320 --> 03:37:25,650
- So next on the agenda
in the order presented

1454
03:37:25,650 --> 03:37:28,470
in the agenda is the planning matters

1455
03:37:28,470 --> 03:37:30,270
at section number eight.

1456
03:37:30,270 --> 03:37:32,880
Those are advertised to start at 3:00 PM.

1457
03:37:32,880 --> 03:37:35,550
So I would advise that we
move on to the report section

1458
03:37:35,550 --> 03:37:37,653
starting in section nine of the agenda.

1459
03:37:40,860 --> 03:37:45,030
And the first report there
is project initiation.

1460
03:37:45,030 --> 03:37:49,353
We do have a representative
there from Resimate.

1461
03:37:50,543 --> 03:37:53,779
The Chief Operating Officer,
Adrian, I believe is.

1462
03:37:53,779 --> 03:37:54,750
There he is, perfect.

1463
03:37:54,750 --> 03:37:57,570
And he has a presentation to
council outlining the benefits

1464
03:37:57,570 --> 03:37:59,103
and features of the program.

1465
03:38:00,870 --> 03:38:02,760
- All right. Adrian, welcome.

1466
03:38:02,760 --> 03:38:05,760
- Good morning, everyone. Mr.
Mayor, members of the council.

1467
03:38:06,780 --> 03:38:08,580
Yeah, my name is Adrien Gignac-Eddy.

1468
03:38:09,523 --> 03:38:11,623
I'm a Chief Operating Officer at Resimate.

1469
03:38:12,540 --> 03:38:15,267
I'm here to talk a little
bit about the work that we do

1470
03:38:15,267 --> 03:38:18,113
and the work that we're doing
in the City of Niagara Falls.

1471
03:38:22,770 --> 03:38:27,770
Okay, so Resimate is Canada's
first ADU marketplace

1472
03:38:30,900 --> 03:38:32,940
for prefabricated ADUs.

1473
03:38:32,940 --> 03:38:34,740
So an ADU is an accessory dwelling unit,

1474
03:38:34,740 --> 03:38:37,020
or as we call them, a backyard home.

1475
03:38:37,020 --> 03:38:38,240
And what we've done with Resimate,

1476
03:38:38,240 --> 03:38:41,610
is we partner with different
Canadian manufacturers.

1477
03:38:41,610 --> 03:38:44,640
And we do a full service
turnkey process for them.

1478
03:38:44,640 --> 03:38:46,650
So we do all of the permitting work,

1479
03:38:46,650 --> 03:38:48,930
all of the installation
process for homeowners

1480
03:38:48,930 --> 03:38:50,700
across Ontario.

1481
03:38:50,700 --> 03:38:55,260
Installing Canadian company
made prefabricated homes.

1482
03:38:55,260 --> 03:38:56,820
As part of that work, you know,

1483
03:38:56,820 --> 03:39:00,120
we're doing everything we can
to make housing production

1484
03:39:00,120 --> 03:39:01,170
more efficient.

1485
03:39:01,170 --> 03:39:03,930
That's why we only work
with prefabricated builders.

1486
03:39:03,930 --> 03:39:07,410
And we're also bringing in
digital solutions to housing and,

1487
03:39:07,410 --> 03:39:11,640
you know, making gentle
density easier to do

1488
03:39:11,640 --> 03:39:14,220
and making people more aware
of what the possibilities are

1489
03:39:14,220 --> 03:39:15,450
for gentle density.

1490
03:39:15,450 --> 03:39:18,030
So one of the things that
we've developed is a tool

1491
03:39:18,030 --> 03:39:19,830
where we partner with
different municipalities

1492
03:39:19,830 --> 03:39:21,570
across Canada.

1493
03:39:21,570 --> 03:39:25,470
And using spatial data, we're
able to map municipalities

1494
03:39:25,470 --> 03:39:26,880
and tell people in advance

1495
03:39:26,880 --> 03:39:29,460
what they're able to do in their backyard.

1496
03:39:29,460 --> 03:39:31,710
So that's what we did with
City of Niagara Falls,

1497
03:39:31,710 --> 03:39:33,540
and that's what I'm here to explain today.

1498
03:39:33,540 --> 03:39:34,830
So our model's quite simple.

1499
03:39:34,830 --> 03:39:38,040
Essentially, we take a look
at the by-law for an ADU,

1500
03:39:38,040 --> 03:39:39,600
an accessory dwelling unit,

1501
03:39:39,600 --> 03:39:41,040
and we will look to see

1502
03:39:41,040 --> 03:39:42,810
what are the different zoning constraints

1503
03:39:42,810 --> 03:39:44,430
on that specific property,

1504
03:39:44,430 --> 03:39:46,890
and we'll narrow it
down to specific answers

1505
03:39:46,890 --> 03:39:48,930
or solutions for homeowners.

1506
03:39:48,930 --> 03:39:51,600
So this is sort of just a
overview of the brainstorm

1507
03:39:51,600 --> 03:39:53,050
of what the model looks like.

1508
03:39:54,690 --> 03:39:57,900
But really what that turns
into is a mapping tool,

1509
03:39:57,900 --> 03:40:00,400
and you see a screenshot
here on the presentation.

1510
03:40:01,290 --> 03:40:03,330
Where a homeowner now in Niagara Falls

1511
03:40:03,330 --> 03:40:05,280
is going to be able to
put in their address

1512
03:40:05,280 --> 03:40:08,790
and get an automated
assessment of not only

1513
03:40:08,790 --> 03:40:10,620
is their property suitable
for a backyard home,

1514
03:40:10,620 --> 03:40:11,610
but different information,

1515
03:40:11,610 --> 03:40:13,350
like what the buildable area looks like,

1516
03:40:13,350 --> 03:40:15,690
what the setbacks are going to look like

1517
03:40:15,690 --> 03:40:18,720
what the zoning requires
and all the different

1518
03:40:18,720 --> 03:40:20,970
sort of information relating to that.

1519
03:40:20,970 --> 03:40:23,220
Now, because we're also a marketplace

1520
03:40:23,220 --> 03:40:25,323
and we work with different prefab models.

1521
03:40:26,250 --> 03:40:29,880
We also allow homeowners to
browse through a selection

1522
03:40:29,880 --> 03:40:31,890
of existing models with pricing

1523
03:40:31,890 --> 03:40:34,530
and then drag and drop those
models onto their property

1524
03:40:34,530 --> 03:40:36,600
so they can see exactly
what that future project

1525
03:40:36,600 --> 03:40:37,590
would look like.

1526
03:40:37,590 --> 03:40:40,470
So in terms of assessing the
feasibility of the project

1527
03:40:40,470 --> 03:40:43,410
for the homeowner, it
means that from, you know,

1528
03:40:43,410 --> 03:40:45,480
their desktop, they can
essentially go through

1529
03:40:45,480 --> 03:40:50,100
the whole initial high level
planning phase of the project

1530
03:40:50,100 --> 03:40:53,460
and know from, you know,
within a five minute

1531
03:40:53,460 --> 03:40:56,580
sort of summary if they're
able to do the project,

1532
03:40:56,580 --> 03:40:59,003
what it would cost and what
that would look like for them.

1533
03:41:01,320 --> 03:41:04,740
Now, because we ran the
whole City of Niagara Falls,

1534
03:41:04,740 --> 03:41:06,990
we do have some statistics
as well to present

1535
03:41:07,953 --> 03:41:09,270
to council today.

1536
03:41:09,270 --> 03:41:13,560
So we have about 65% of lots
in the City of Niagara Falls

1537
03:41:13,560 --> 03:41:16,563
that are zoned suitable for an ADU.

1538
03:41:17,880 --> 03:41:20,430
And in addition to that,
we have another 11% of lots

1539
03:41:20,430 --> 03:41:22,050
that would be suitable, but that may have

1540
03:41:22,050 --> 03:41:23,040
an additional requirement,

1541
03:41:23,040 --> 03:41:26,220
so that can look like something
like a conservation area,

1542
03:41:26,220 --> 03:41:28,590
or some additional permit
that we might need to get.

1543
03:41:28,590 --> 03:41:30,330
But what that means is essentially,

1544
03:41:30,330 --> 03:41:33,720
you know, over 70% of lots
in the City of Niagara Falls

1545
03:41:33,720 --> 03:41:36,783
could have a detached
ADU, so a backyard home.

1546
03:41:37,710 --> 03:41:39,090
So there's a huge potential

1547
03:41:39,090 --> 03:41:41,250
for this type of gentle densification.

1548
03:41:42,420 --> 03:41:46,530
Now, our company has
also partnered with CMHC.

1549
03:41:46,530 --> 03:41:50,640
We've received funding for
innovative housing solution.

1550
03:41:50,640 --> 03:41:53,520
And we also have on our marketplace

1551
03:41:53,520 --> 03:41:55,800
CMHC's permit ready ADUs.

1552
03:41:55,800 --> 03:41:58,590
So homeowners now in Niagara Falls

1553
03:41:58,590 --> 03:42:01,020
will also be able to
drag and drop ADU models

1554
03:42:01,020 --> 03:42:03,570
that are part of the CMHC catalog

1555
03:42:03,570 --> 03:42:04,970
that was launched last year.

1556
03:42:06,540 --> 03:42:08,760
And yeah, so it's just going
to make that more accessible

1557
03:42:08,760 --> 03:42:10,140
in terms of information for homeowners

1558
03:42:10,140 --> 03:42:11,310
if they did want to go that route

1559
03:42:11,310 --> 03:42:13,353
of working with CMHC models.

1560
03:42:16,680 --> 03:42:20,370
Now we may not have time
today to do the full demo,

1561
03:42:20,370 --> 03:42:23,940
although if we do, I
might just take a look.

1562
03:42:23,940 --> 03:42:25,500
So this is what the front page

1563
03:42:25,500 --> 03:42:27,030
is going to look like for homeowners.

1564
03:42:27,030 --> 03:42:29,340
So these are all the
other cities in Ontario

1565
03:42:29,340 --> 03:42:30,840
that we have partnerships with.

1566
03:42:30,840 --> 03:42:33,390
And what that partnership
looks like with the city

1567
03:42:33,390 --> 03:42:35,910
is basically exchanging geospatial data

1568
03:42:35,910 --> 03:42:37,560
to be able to display this information

1569
03:42:37,560 --> 03:42:38,943
freely for homeowners.

1570
03:42:40,380 --> 03:42:42,123
But I think.

1571
03:42:47,370 --> 03:42:50,010
Am I able to go on the internet here?

1572
03:42:50,010 --> 03:42:51,600
- [Assistant] Do you want me
to pull up the thing for you?

1573
03:42:51,600 --> 03:42:56,340
- Yeah, could you? Thank you. Perfect.

1574
03:42:56,340 --> 03:42:58,950
So I'll just give a quick
demo of what it looks like,

1575
03:42:58,950 --> 03:43:00,650
and then I'll take some questions.

1576
03:43:12,205 --> 03:43:13,222
- [Council Member] The
mayor's kids would like him

1577
03:43:13,222 --> 03:43:16,312
to go to an ADU, so maybe pull up his.

1578
03:43:16,312 --> 03:43:19,320
- Yeah. I can put in an address actually.

1579
03:43:19,320 --> 03:43:20,153
Do a live demo.

1580
03:43:20,153 --> 03:43:22,034
- [Jim] They like it far away.

1581
03:43:22,034 --> 03:43:22,980
(Adrian laughs)

1582
03:43:22,980 --> 03:43:24,235
Let me see here.

1583
03:43:24,235 --> 03:43:28,380
(council member speaking faintly)

1584
03:43:28,380 --> 03:43:29,280
- [Council Member] Jim, don't worry.

1585
03:43:29,280 --> 03:43:31,713
- [Jim] Thank you. No
worries. You got my back.

1586
03:43:33,330 --> 03:43:36,360
- I'm not sure if we're
connected right now.

1587
03:43:36,360 --> 03:43:37,920
- [Assistant] The WiFi is that our WiFi?

1588
03:43:37,920 --> 03:43:39,613
- Yeah, it's the WiFi.

1589
03:43:39,613 --> 03:43:43,863
(council members speaking faintly)

1590
03:43:45,143 --> 03:43:47,560
Okay. I'm going to see if I can.

1591
03:43:49,286 --> 03:43:51,053
Oh, there we go. Okay. It's just slow.

1592
03:43:52,650 --> 03:43:55,200
So this is just one example.

1593
03:43:55,200 --> 03:43:57,030
So I can just put in an address here,

1594
03:43:57,030 --> 03:43:59,640
take a look at all the zoning information.

1595
03:43:59,640 --> 03:44:04,320
I can also go into a satellite
view to just understand

1596
03:44:04,320 --> 03:44:05,610
is there a pool in the backyard?

1597
03:44:05,610 --> 03:44:08,220
Is there, you know, a
restriction regarding trees

1598
03:44:08,220 --> 03:44:09,780
or anything like that?

1599
03:44:09,780 --> 03:44:12,000
And then I can select a model

1600
03:44:12,000 --> 03:44:13,350
that I might want from the marketplace.

1601
03:44:13,350 --> 03:44:15,090
We have around 50 models

1602
03:44:15,090 --> 03:44:17,463
from different Canadian manufacturers.

1603
03:44:18,690 --> 03:44:21,600
And then all the models
will also include pricing.

1604
03:44:21,600 --> 03:44:23,700
I can add the model to the backyard.

1605
03:44:23,700 --> 03:44:25,950
And then I can sort of
play around with placement

1606
03:44:25,950 --> 03:44:27,360
and everything like that.

1607
03:44:27,360 --> 03:44:30,300
And then from there
homeowners can, you know,

1608
03:44:30,300 --> 03:44:33,600
not only have the first
idea of the feasibility

1609
03:44:33,600 --> 03:44:35,730
but can also reach out to
us for more information

1610
03:44:35,730 --> 03:44:38,730
and book a free onsite visit to understand

1611
03:44:38,730 --> 03:44:40,050
if there are any additional barriers

1612
03:44:40,050 --> 03:44:41,610
to building in their backyard.

1613
03:44:41,610 --> 03:44:45,780
We also have on our website
a financial calculator.

1614
03:44:45,780 --> 03:44:48,210
So again, we're just
trying to spread awareness

1615
03:44:48,210 --> 03:44:51,420
around information for not just, you know,

1616
03:44:51,420 --> 03:44:52,620
can I build in my backyard,

1617
03:44:52,620 --> 03:44:54,330
but is it feasible for me as a homeowner?

1618
03:44:54,330 --> 03:44:56,640
Can I afford it? How do
I get financing for it?

1619
03:44:56,640 --> 03:44:57,590
That kind of thing.

1620
03:44:58,650 --> 03:45:01,200
In order to, you know,
streamline the building

1621
03:45:01,200 --> 03:45:02,703
of these types of homes.

1622
03:45:04,290 --> 03:45:06,390
And that is all. Thank you.

1623
03:45:06,390 --> 03:45:10,127
- That's great, thanks,
Adrian (speaks faintly)

1624
03:45:10,980 --> 03:45:13,110
Thanks, Adrian, first we've
got Councillor Lococo.

1625
03:45:13,110 --> 03:45:14,040
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1626
03:45:14,040 --> 03:45:15,930
Thank you so much for the presentation.

1627
03:45:15,930 --> 03:45:17,790
I played around with the
tool. It was really neat.

1628
03:45:17,790 --> 03:45:20,520
You could look at all of the setbacks

1629
03:45:20,520 --> 03:45:21,530
and where you wanted to put it.

1630
03:45:21,530 --> 03:45:22,770
It had all of the pricing.

1631
03:45:22,770 --> 03:45:25,530
You could look at each different
model, so it was great.

1632
03:45:25,530 --> 03:45:28,680
I guess my questions are
what does a partnership

1633
03:45:28,680 --> 03:45:30,330
with the city look like?

1634
03:45:30,330 --> 03:45:34,350
And what are you looking
for from the city?

1635
03:45:34,350 --> 03:45:37,773
And do we have to follow any RFP protocol?

1636
03:45:38,850 --> 03:45:41,073
- Yeah. So in terms, oh.

1637
03:45:42,240 --> 03:45:44,340
In terms of the partnership with the city,

1638
03:45:45,373 --> 03:45:48,540
it was a one-off sort of consultation fee

1639
03:45:48,540 --> 03:45:51,450
that we worked through with the city.

1640
03:45:51,450 --> 03:45:53,670
In terms of what we're
looking for today from council

1641
03:45:53,670 --> 03:45:55,950
is just a support for the tool.

1642
03:45:55,950 --> 03:45:58,800
And just spreading awareness
about it with homeowners

1643
03:45:58,800 --> 03:46:01,230
and everything is entirely free to use.

1644
03:46:01,230 --> 03:46:04,770
It's supported by our company directly.

1645
03:46:04,770 --> 03:46:06,750
So there's no cost to the city

1646
03:46:06,750 --> 03:46:09,330
other than that or to homeowners directly.

1647
03:46:09,330 --> 03:46:11,640
- Great. Thank you. That
answers all my questions.

1648
03:46:11,640 --> 03:46:13,483
It's a really amazing tool. Thank you.

1649
03:46:13,483 --> 03:46:15,513
- Thank you. Councillor Strange.

1650
03:46:16,516 --> 03:46:18,000
- Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1651
03:46:18,000 --> 03:46:19,953
Yeah, this is really cool.

1652
03:46:21,240 --> 03:46:23,940
So have you tried this
in other municipalities

1653
03:46:23,940 --> 03:46:26,280
and do you have any stats, like on?

1654
03:46:26,280 --> 03:46:27,223
- So we've-

1655
03:46:27,223 --> 03:46:30,330
- As far as, like, you know,
how many lots have, or?

1656
03:46:30,330 --> 03:46:33,003
- Yeah, we've mapped
over 40 cities in Canada.

1657
03:46:34,200 --> 03:46:38,010
On average, cities are about 40% feasible.

1658
03:46:38,010 --> 03:46:43,010
So the fact that Niagara Falls
is 65% is higher than average

1659
03:46:43,350 --> 03:46:45,780
which can be explained
by larger lot sizes here

1660
03:46:45,780 --> 03:46:49,800
and just generally you know,
a city with smaller lots

1661
03:46:49,800 --> 03:46:52,410
and more density might
have less suitability.

1662
03:46:52,410 --> 03:46:55,540
- Yeah, but like have you
helped, say you've helped

1663
03:46:56,970 --> 03:47:00,960
I don't know, like 20
houses in one community?

1664
03:47:00,960 --> 03:47:03,960
- Oh, yeah, so I mean,
in terms of the platform,

1665
03:47:03,960 --> 03:47:06,660
like right now, because we
do also the installation

1666
03:47:06,660 --> 03:47:09,240
and everything, we do
about 20 homes per year

1667
03:47:09,240 --> 03:47:11,610
in different backyards, all homeowners.

1668
03:47:11,610 --> 03:47:13,590
Most of them are housing family members,

1669
03:47:13,590 --> 03:47:16,200
so a lot of the time it's
housing their parents

1670
03:47:16,200 --> 03:47:18,800
or housing their kids to
live on the same property.

1671
03:47:18,800 --> 03:47:20,490
- In that particular one where you showed

1672
03:47:20,490 --> 03:47:21,690
you picking a house.

1673
03:47:21,690 --> 03:47:26,690
So if you put on my lot size,
and then it'll only come up

1674
03:47:26,910 --> 03:47:30,060
which ADUs will fit in that house.

1675
03:47:30,060 --> 03:47:31,225
- That's right, yes.

1676
03:47:31,225 --> 03:47:32,058
- So, if there is only 10 available

1677
03:47:32,058 --> 03:47:33,540
you can use that and
then switch it around.

1678
03:47:33,540 --> 03:47:35,130
- Exactly, and so the ones that don't fit

1679
03:47:35,130 --> 03:47:36,600
will come up as not suitable.

1680
03:47:36,600 --> 03:47:39,060
- Okay. Perfect. Cool.

1681
03:47:39,060 --> 03:47:40,860
- Thank you, Councillor Nieuwesteeg.

1682
03:47:42,000 --> 03:47:44,040
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank
you for the presentation.

1683
03:47:44,040 --> 03:47:46,350
So how are you compensated if the city

1684
03:47:46,350 --> 03:47:48,180
isn't paying you for any of this?

1685
03:47:48,180 --> 03:47:51,370
- So actually we're compensated

1686
03:47:51,370 --> 03:47:53,280
entirely by the private sector.

1687
03:47:53,280 --> 03:47:57,210
So, you know, we charge a fee
for our work with homeowners.

1688
03:47:57,210 --> 03:48:00,930
And essentially for us, we
just benefit from having ADUs

1689
03:48:00,930 --> 03:48:05,040
be you know, better understood
more awareness around them

1690
03:48:05,040 --> 03:48:07,200
and more people understanding
how to go forward

1691
03:48:07,200 --> 03:48:08,248
with the process.

1692
03:48:08,248 --> 03:48:09,720
- So you're really, in
essence, a facilitator?

1693
03:48:09,720 --> 03:48:11,620
- Exactly, we're a marketplace.

1694
03:48:11,620 --> 03:48:14,310
- Okay, and now you're
recommending these different homes.

1695
03:48:14,310 --> 03:48:17,430
And you're vouching for
these homes you have,

1696
03:48:17,430 --> 03:48:18,360
like, you've seen them?

1697
03:48:18,360 --> 03:48:19,193
- Yeah, exactly.

1698
03:48:19,193 --> 03:48:21,660
So we have a process with
the different manufacturers

1699
03:48:21,660 --> 03:48:22,493
we work with.

1700
03:48:22,493 --> 03:48:24,060
So we like to say we're
manufacturer agnostic,

1701
03:48:24,060 --> 03:48:25,380
so we don't-

1702
03:48:25,380 --> 03:48:26,552
- A manufacturer what?

1703
03:48:26,552 --> 03:48:27,750
- Agnostic. It's just something we say.

1704
03:48:27,750 --> 03:48:29,220
So we don't necessarily favor

1705
03:48:29,220 --> 03:48:30,870
one manufacturer over the other.

1706
03:48:30,870 --> 03:48:33,600
We sign partnerships with manufacturers.

1707
03:48:33,600 --> 03:48:34,920
But we do have a vetting process.

1708
03:48:34,920 --> 03:48:37,113
So our manufacturers are CSA certified.

1709
03:48:37,950 --> 03:48:40,470
They essentially, you know,
have been in the industry

1710
03:48:40,470 --> 03:48:43,230
for a few years at least.

1711
03:48:43,230 --> 03:48:45,420
And have built homes previously.

1712
03:48:45,420 --> 03:48:50,220
So it's sort of like a mark
of approval from us as well

1713
03:48:50,220 --> 03:48:51,505
that those are good manufacturers.

1714
03:48:51,505 --> 03:48:53,103
- Though you Mr. Mayor,
what percentage of the homes

1715
03:48:53,103 --> 03:48:55,320
that you represent are Canadian built?

1716
03:48:55,320 --> 03:48:56,476
- All of them.

1717
03:48:56,476 --> 03:48:57,720
- Okay, all right.

1718
03:48:57,720 --> 03:49:00,343
And how many different
manufacturers do you represent?

1719
03:49:00,343 --> 03:49:01,225
- 10.

1720
03:49:01,225 --> 03:49:03,030
- Okay, All right. Very good. Thanks.

1721
03:49:03,030 --> 03:49:05,400
- Thank you, our general
manager of planning

1722
03:49:05,400 --> 03:49:07,110
would like to comment.

1723
03:49:07,110 --> 03:49:07,950
- Thank you, Your Worship.

1724
03:49:07,950 --> 03:49:10,530
And I just wanted to kind of be clear

1725
03:49:10,530 --> 03:49:12,390
on what's happened here.

1726
03:49:12,390 --> 03:49:14,820
So Resimate, we did
enter into an agreement

1727
03:49:14,820 --> 03:49:19,050
to purchase use of this software.

1728
03:49:19,050 --> 03:49:20,790
It was a small nominal fee.

1729
03:49:20,790 --> 03:49:25,443
It was done through our budget
that was approved in 2023?

1730
03:49:26,820 --> 03:49:29,280
2023 for the ADU program.

1731
03:49:29,280 --> 03:49:32,070
So originally we were
going to design and create

1732
03:49:32,070 --> 03:49:36,420
our own ADUs and offer them to homeowners.

1733
03:49:36,420 --> 03:49:38,040
But we found Resimate

1734
03:49:38,040 --> 03:49:40,680
and decided that this
was a more economical

1735
03:49:40,680 --> 03:49:42,150
and affordable way to go.

1736
03:49:42,150 --> 03:49:44,040
And Adrian's group here did all the work

1737
03:49:44,040 --> 03:49:45,570
that we didn't have to.

1738
03:49:45,570 --> 03:49:49,320
So we entered into an
agreement to get this done.

1739
03:49:49,320 --> 03:49:50,700
So just to be clear,

1740
03:49:50,700 --> 03:49:53,853
it was a small nominal
fee just over 5,000.

1741
03:49:56,760 --> 03:50:01,020
- Okay. Any other questions
or comments of council?

1742
03:50:01,020 --> 03:50:04,590
Okay, so Mr. Clerk, how would
you recommend we proceed?

1743
03:50:04,590 --> 03:50:05,853
Just receive the report?

1744
03:50:06,728 --> 03:50:07,833
- Yes, there is a recommendation there

1745
03:50:07,833 --> 03:50:10,560
that council received the
report for information.

1746
03:50:10,560 --> 03:50:13,710
- Okay, motion by Councillor Lococo,

1747
03:50:13,710 --> 03:50:16,560
second by Councillor Baldinelli
that we receive the report.

1748
03:50:16,560 --> 03:50:18,900
The recommendation of the
report, all those in favor?

1749
03:50:18,900 --> 03:50:20,040
Okay, that's unanimous.

1750
03:50:20,040 --> 03:50:21,480
Adrian, thank you very much.

1751
03:50:21,480 --> 03:50:23,640
- Thank you very much.
- Thank you.

1752
03:50:23,640 --> 03:50:25,470
Okay, moving along.

1753
03:50:25,470 --> 03:50:29,853
9.2, motor vehicle collision
cost recovery program.

1754
03:50:30,720 --> 03:50:32,583
Did anyone want to speak to it?

1755
03:50:34,448 --> 03:50:35,820
Well, I mean, did anybody from the city

1756
03:50:35,820 --> 03:50:37,773
want to speak to it, Mr. Rocecio?

1757
03:50:38,758 --> 03:50:40,043
And then we'll go to council.

1758
03:50:40,980 --> 03:50:42,840
- Deputy Chief's here
to take any questions.

1759
03:50:42,840 --> 03:50:46,530
The report's pretty well laid out.

1760
03:50:46,530 --> 03:50:48,780
Gives council a number of options.

1761
03:50:48,780 --> 03:50:51,810
Gives background on what other
municipalities are doing.

1762
03:50:51,810 --> 03:50:54,930
We think we came up
with a balanced solution

1763
03:50:54,930 --> 03:50:59,190
that does recover some cost
from those who you know,

1764
03:50:59,190 --> 03:51:02,010
who require the service, but does not...

1765
03:51:02,010 --> 03:51:05,190
The balances the cost
out with some fairness

1766
03:51:05,190 --> 03:51:08,340
and the total fee so that
there's no large sticker shock.

1767
03:51:08,340 --> 03:51:12,750
So there's no right answer or
perfect answer on this one.

1768
03:51:12,750 --> 03:51:14,160
So we did lay out the options

1769
03:51:14,160 --> 03:51:15,960
and put forward our best recommendations.

1770
03:51:15,960 --> 03:51:17,340
We'll take any questions.

1771
03:51:17,340 --> 03:51:20,400
- Okay, so we've got Councillor Dabrowski

1772
03:51:20,400 --> 03:51:22,739
and then I've got Councillor Lococo.

1773
03:51:22,739 --> 03:51:24,415
(council member speaking faintly)

1774
03:51:24,415 --> 03:51:25,248
Oh, I'm sorry.

1775
03:51:25,248 --> 03:51:26,081
You did have your, you
pointed at him though.

1776
03:51:26,081 --> 03:51:27,243
- [Council Member] No, he
was first and I was second.

1777
03:51:27,243 --> 03:51:31,860
- Okay. All right. I got
Dabrowski, Patel, and Lococo.

1778
03:51:31,860 --> 03:51:33,690
- Through you, we appreciate the report.

1779
03:51:33,690 --> 03:51:38,340
Curious as to, it's a
very relatively small cost

1780
03:51:38,340 --> 03:51:39,990
that we're trying to recover.

1781
03:51:39,990 --> 03:51:44,990
After we take into account
administrative costs, support,

1782
03:51:45,450 --> 03:51:47,910
et cetera, et cetera,
what is the net revenue

1783
03:51:47,910 --> 03:51:51,123
that we would take from the $250 fee?

1784
03:51:52,290 --> 03:51:53,163
- [Jim] Susio?

1785
03:51:55,020 --> 03:51:56,760
- The administration to run that,

1786
03:51:56,760 --> 03:51:58,320
we'll have to roll through it.

1787
03:51:58,320 --> 03:52:00,600
That's why we didn't want
to do the at-fault one

1788
03:52:00,600 --> 03:52:03,573
because that administrative
cost is much more significant.

1789
03:52:04,650 --> 03:52:07,920
The deputy chief can get the details,

1790
03:52:07,920 --> 03:52:09,780
but once we get the driver information,

1791
03:52:09,780 --> 03:52:11,760
it's fairly easy for us to bill.

1792
03:52:11,760 --> 03:52:13,290
I don't know what our
average cost of billing is,

1793
03:52:13,290 --> 03:52:14,700
but it might be 10 to $15.

1794
03:52:14,700 --> 03:52:17,340
So we would still net a fair amount.

1795
03:52:17,340 --> 03:52:20,070
We're just not recovering
the full fixed cost

1796
03:52:20,070 --> 03:52:24,810
of the fire service, but that
cost stays no matter what.

1797
03:52:24,810 --> 03:52:28,590
So I compared it more
to the ambulance bills

1798
03:52:28,590 --> 03:52:31,140
that you get when you get
delivered to the hospital.

1799
03:52:31,140 --> 03:52:34,620
I believe it's $75 for an ambulance fee.

1800
03:52:34,620 --> 03:52:37,020
That's essentially on the hospital basis,

1801
03:52:37,020 --> 03:52:39,240
so it's kind of a similar approach.

1802
03:52:39,240 --> 03:52:42,397
But yeah, our cost to
issue a bill is, would be,

1803
03:52:42,397 --> 03:52:44,670
you know, a percentage of that 250.

1804
03:52:44,670 --> 03:52:48,420
- Okay, and one challenge I
have and a concern I have,

1805
03:52:48,420 --> 03:52:49,440
we're in Niagara Falls.

1806
03:52:49,440 --> 03:52:51,960
We're different than all
other municipalities.

1807
03:52:51,960 --> 03:52:53,040
We're very unique.

1808
03:52:53,040 --> 03:52:55,530
We have tens of thousands of people,

1809
03:52:55,530 --> 03:52:57,750
tourists driving into our, especially now.

1810
03:52:57,750 --> 03:52:59,700
Less people from the United
States are traveling here.

1811
03:52:59,700 --> 03:53:01,770
We have more Ontarians
driving into our city.

1812
03:53:01,770 --> 03:53:04,140
How are we going to
communicate this to tourists?

1813
03:53:04,140 --> 03:53:05,970
I don't want to scare people away.

1814
03:53:05,970 --> 03:53:08,520
I don't want people to rent
the car, drive down the QEW

1815
03:53:08,520 --> 03:53:09,870
and worry about getting in an accident

1816
03:53:09,870 --> 03:53:10,920
or something happening.

1817
03:53:10,920 --> 03:53:14,070
How are we communicating this to tourists

1818
03:53:14,070 --> 03:53:15,330
that are coming into our city?

1819
03:53:15,330 --> 03:53:17,820
My fear is TikTok, social media.

1820
03:53:17,820 --> 03:53:20,760
The last thing we want are
people leaving our municipality,

1821
03:53:20,760 --> 03:53:23,250
getting a bill at home for $250,

1822
03:53:23,250 --> 03:53:25,200
and the negative impact that it could have

1823
03:53:25,200 --> 03:53:27,210
on Niagara Falls in
terms of marketability.

1824
03:53:27,210 --> 03:53:29,580
And we're trying to market
to potential tourists

1825
03:53:29,580 --> 03:53:31,140
to come to our city.

1826
03:53:31,140 --> 03:53:33,240
My fear is that we're scaring people away

1827
03:53:33,240 --> 03:53:34,080
that are driving here.

1828
03:53:34,080 --> 03:53:36,450
All the rubber tire markets
from Ontario, New York,

1829
03:53:36,450 --> 03:53:39,330
Pennsylvania and Ohio that
are coming into the city,

1830
03:53:39,330 --> 03:53:40,470
they're going to be fearful.

1831
03:53:40,470 --> 03:53:45,470
And I don't want to
make our tourists afraid

1832
03:53:45,540 --> 03:53:47,970
to come into the city
and drive into our city

1833
03:53:47,970 --> 03:53:50,850
and be worried that they
might leave our municipality

1834
03:53:50,850 --> 03:53:52,680
and come home to a $250 bill.

1835
03:53:52,680 --> 03:53:54,600
So how are we going to communicate that?

1836
03:53:54,600 --> 03:53:56,300
Is that a concern from staff?

1837
03:53:56,300 --> 03:53:57,920
If I can get some feedback on that,

1838
03:53:57,920 --> 03:53:59,490
it would help me come to a conclusion

1839
03:53:59,490 --> 03:54:01,313
on whether or not I could support it.

1840
03:54:02,550 --> 03:54:04,980
- Through the mayor to the
Councillor, all great questions.

1841
03:54:04,980 --> 03:54:06,720
We did debate the perception issue,

1842
03:54:06,720 --> 03:54:10,980
and that is why we moved
away from, you know,

1843
03:54:10,980 --> 03:54:14,070
a fee where two fire trucks
show up, 500 bucks an hour,

1844
03:54:14,070 --> 03:54:15,870
you get a $1,000 bill.

1845
03:54:15,870 --> 03:54:17,160
We moved away from that.

1846
03:54:17,160 --> 03:54:19,530
And we wanted to balance
the needs of the residents

1847
03:54:19,530 --> 03:54:22,680
and the needs of, you know,
of the city to balance

1848
03:54:22,680 --> 03:54:24,420
some of those costs out.

1849
03:54:24,420 --> 03:54:29,160
We picked the number 250. Was
there a magic number to it?

1850
03:54:29,160 --> 03:54:32,130
No, it just what was a reasonable amount.

1851
03:54:32,130 --> 03:54:35,850
I think if people get
transported to the hospital

1852
03:54:35,850 --> 03:54:38,910
or if people use a particular service,

1853
03:54:38,910 --> 03:54:42,720
it's, you know, and if
you go hiking in Banff

1854
03:54:42,720 --> 03:54:45,270
and you get put off the trail,
or if you go in California

1855
03:54:45,270 --> 03:54:47,280
and get put off a trail,

1856
03:54:47,280 --> 03:54:49,380
there is a rescue fee involved on that.

1857
03:54:49,380 --> 03:54:52,110
So similar type of concept.

1858
03:54:52,110 --> 03:54:54,990
The other thing is the chief

1859
03:54:54,990 --> 03:54:57,030
would have discretionary
authority to waive bills.

1860
03:54:57,030 --> 03:55:00,060
So let's say they really
didn't do too much.

1861
03:55:00,060 --> 03:55:00,893
They just showed up.

1862
03:55:00,893 --> 03:55:04,050
We're not going to just hammer
everyone with 250 as a thing.

1863
03:55:04,050 --> 03:55:07,080
It would be more if we actually
deployed some services.

1864
03:55:07,080 --> 03:55:09,750
So if they were taken away in
an ambulance, if, you know,

1865
03:55:09,750 --> 03:55:11,940
there was something else,
then they get the fee.

1866
03:55:11,940 --> 03:55:13,830
So there has to be a reasonableness to it.

1867
03:55:13,830 --> 03:55:16,260
Currently, there is no
discretion in our by-laws,

1868
03:55:16,260 --> 03:55:20,250
so part of the process would
be to have that discretion

1869
03:55:20,250 --> 03:55:24,030
given to the chief or
deputy chief to hammer that.

1870
03:55:24,030 --> 03:55:27,060
But that is a debate that we debate it.

1871
03:55:27,060 --> 03:55:30,720
And that's why we brought
multiple options to council

1872
03:55:30,720 --> 03:55:33,060
to stay status quo or to move

1873
03:55:33,060 --> 03:55:38,060
because I can't answer what is
the brand damage issue today

1874
03:55:38,490 --> 03:55:39,480
based upon that.

1875
03:55:39,480 --> 03:55:42,300
But that's why it's before council.

1876
03:55:42,300 --> 03:55:44,700
Deputy Chief, if there's anything,

1877
03:55:44,700 --> 03:55:47,220
like, we could maybe even
put further guidelines

1878
03:55:47,220 --> 03:55:51,003
into when we bill for that
kind of stuff internally.

1879
03:55:52,890 --> 03:55:54,713
I don't know if you
have any other comments.

1880
03:55:55,650 --> 03:55:56,520
- [Jim] Chief?

1881
03:55:56,520 --> 03:55:57,750
- Through the mayor to council.

1882
03:55:57,750 --> 03:56:01,110
One of the other reasons
we chose this option,

1883
03:56:01,110 --> 03:56:02,490
other than at fault,

1884
03:56:02,490 --> 03:56:05,610
because we'd have to wait
for a police investigation

1885
03:56:05,610 --> 03:56:07,860
we could bill an appropriate timeline,

1886
03:56:07,860 --> 03:56:09,600
and that can go to the insurance claim

1887
03:56:09,600 --> 03:56:10,950
of the owner of the vehicle.

1888
03:56:10,950 --> 03:56:14,700
So we're hoping that
that cost is pushed off

1889
03:56:14,700 --> 03:56:16,170
and it's not out of pocket

1890
03:56:16,170 --> 03:56:18,570
other than you have a
claim against your record.

1891
03:56:20,550 --> 03:56:21,383
- Okay.

1892
03:56:22,345 --> 03:56:24,813
- Okay. More questions. Councillor Patel?

1893
03:56:25,770 --> 03:56:27,870
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
There's a chart here.

1894
03:56:27,870 --> 03:56:31,325
We are comparing our city
with other municipalities.

1895
03:56:31,325 --> 03:56:35,075
And, one, two, three,
four, five, six, seven.

1896
03:56:35,927 --> 03:56:37,950
Most of the municipalities
there do have volunteer

1897
03:56:37,950 --> 03:56:41,040
or on-call suppression unit.

1898
03:56:41,040 --> 03:56:43,710
So how can we compare
our cost with their costs

1899
03:56:43,710 --> 03:56:45,930
as we have a professional fire department?

1900
03:56:45,930 --> 03:56:46,770
So does St. Catharines

1901
03:56:46,770 --> 03:56:50,010
and St. Catharines does
not charge for the service?

1902
03:56:50,010 --> 03:56:51,540
- [Jim] Mr. CAO?

1903
03:56:51,540 --> 03:56:52,377
- Thank you.

1904
03:56:52,377 --> 03:56:56,460
Our on-call fire stations do respond

1905
03:56:56,460 --> 03:56:57,807
to motor vehicle accidents also,

1906
03:56:57,807 --> 03:57:00,510
and there is a, you know, there is a cost

1907
03:57:00,510 --> 03:57:01,743
on an hourly rate there.

1908
03:57:02,700 --> 03:57:04,380
Again, it's a decision.

1909
03:57:04,380 --> 03:57:07,380
St. Catharines made a
decision not to charge.

1910
03:57:07,380 --> 03:57:09,273
We can make a decision to charge.

1911
03:57:11,010 --> 03:57:14,940
You know, as I said
this council has debated

1912
03:57:14,940 --> 03:57:16,740
this type of thing before.

1913
03:57:16,740 --> 03:57:20,100
It was brought up as an
idea. We took it back.

1914
03:57:20,100 --> 03:57:21,600
That's why the report's written

1915
03:57:21,600 --> 03:57:24,480
showing the spectrum of options.

1916
03:57:24,480 --> 03:57:29,310
And we tried to land in one
that kind of balanced respect

1917
03:57:29,310 --> 03:57:32,880
for the taxpayer and respect
for the individual who,

1918
03:57:32,880 --> 03:57:34,710
you know, got put into the accident.

1919
03:57:34,710 --> 03:57:37,050
- So, I got two more questions is,

1920
03:57:37,050 --> 03:57:38,850
especially when somebody's
visiting Niagara Falls,

1921
03:57:38,850 --> 03:57:40,740
as you said, they could be from overseas,

1922
03:57:40,740 --> 03:57:42,720
from the US, other cities.

1923
03:57:42,720 --> 03:57:45,083
If you charge a driver,
how do we make sure

1924
03:57:45,083 --> 03:57:47,430
that we are collecting those charges?

1925
03:57:47,430 --> 03:57:50,230
What are the mechanism in
place to collect that charges?

1926
03:57:52,170 --> 03:57:54,360
- Through the mayor,
it's small claims court.

1927
03:57:54,360 --> 03:57:57,360
So if they're overseas,
it's a rental car company.

1928
03:57:57,360 --> 03:58:00,000
Rental car companies have
the right to charge back

1929
03:58:00,000 --> 03:58:01,083
that kind of stuff.

1930
03:58:02,310 --> 03:58:04,020
It's not just a tourist,
it could be, you know,

1931
03:58:04,020 --> 03:58:08,250
quite frankly, in every
city in Niagara our staff,

1932
03:58:08,250 --> 03:58:11,370
if I take a look at my 700 staff you know,

1933
03:58:11,370 --> 03:58:12,870
what percentage lives in Niagara Falls

1934
03:58:12,870 --> 03:58:15,843
versus lives someplace else
and commutes into the city?

1935
03:58:16,800 --> 03:58:20,100
So it could just be, you
know, transient folks.

1936
03:58:20,100 --> 03:58:22,260
So part of it is, you know,

1937
03:58:22,260 --> 03:58:25,740
as the deputy chief
had noted is, you know,

1938
03:58:25,740 --> 03:58:27,300
if they're in a motor vehicle accident,

1939
03:58:27,300 --> 03:58:29,910
there's already an
insurance claim available,

1940
03:58:29,910 --> 03:58:31,800
or there's already insurance
claim likely filed,

1941
03:58:31,800 --> 03:58:34,710
and this would just be a cost
into the insurance company

1942
03:58:34,710 --> 03:58:37,440
that they would deal with through there.

1943
03:58:37,440 --> 03:58:38,670
How do we get it back?

1944
03:58:38,670 --> 03:58:40,320
We don't bill the
insurance company directly.

1945
03:58:40,320 --> 03:58:42,420
We bill the individual.

1946
03:58:42,420 --> 03:58:46,020
If they choose not to
pay, we would, you know,

1947
03:58:46,020 --> 03:58:48,270
it'd be part of our small
claims collection process.

1948
03:58:48,270 --> 03:58:49,590
- That sounds like lots of work though.

1949
03:58:49,590 --> 03:58:51,090
Is it worth collecting 250

1950
03:58:51,090 --> 03:58:53,040
while going through all that admin work?

1951
03:58:53,040 --> 03:58:55,410
- Well, it's no different than, you know,

1952
03:58:55,410 --> 03:58:59,070
I charge $10 for you know, for pickleball.

1953
03:58:59,070 --> 03:59:00,877
You know, I collect $10 for pickleball.

1954
03:59:00,877 --> 03:59:03,960
You know, we charge, you know, it's that.

1955
03:59:03,960 --> 03:59:07,140
So it is, there would
be some recovery to it.

1956
03:59:07,140 --> 03:59:10,710
You know, we would always
evaluate these programs

1957
03:59:10,710 --> 03:59:13,170
after a year or two to say,
okay, is it really worth it?

1958
03:59:13,170 --> 03:59:16,560
Is it too cumbersome? Is
there a way to stream it?

1959
03:59:16,560 --> 03:59:20,250
Like I said, the hospital
systems do generate

1960
03:59:20,250 --> 03:59:25,020
significant revenue from
their $75 ambulance charges,

1961
03:59:25,020 --> 03:59:26,700
and it goes to offset other costs.

1962
03:59:26,700 --> 03:59:29,880
- But do the insurance
company pay for those charges?

1963
03:59:29,880 --> 03:59:32,040
Sorry, through Mr. Mayor?

1964
03:59:32,040 --> 03:59:35,370
- I've been billed it personally,
like with the ambulance.

1965
03:59:35,370 --> 03:59:37,770
If I tore up my knee on a football field,

1966
03:59:37,770 --> 03:59:39,000
there's no insurance claim for that.

1967
03:59:39,000 --> 03:59:42,627
I just paid my $75 it gets billed to me

1968
03:59:42,627 --> 03:59:45,390
and I paid that through that, so.

1969
03:59:45,390 --> 03:59:48,462
- Through you Mr. Mayor, I
have another question, is,

1970
03:59:48,462 --> 03:59:50,850
this is for residents, residents
are paying top tax dollars

1971
03:59:50,850 --> 03:59:54,480
to get the service health,
professional fire department.

1972
03:59:54,480 --> 03:59:57,062
We got the trucks ready to go.

1973
03:59:57,062 --> 03:59:59,160
We have trained the firefighters

1974
03:59:59,160 --> 04:00:01,380
actually waiting for a call.

1975
04:00:01,380 --> 04:00:03,300
So we actually do not have lots

1976
04:00:03,300 --> 04:00:05,580
that we have to deal with
if the calls comes in.

1977
04:00:05,580 --> 04:00:09,660
All we are looking at maybe
gas that the fire truck uses

1978
04:00:09,660 --> 04:00:11,700
and maybe some other cost.

1979
04:00:11,700 --> 04:00:15,657
My worry is because of this,
people might not call 911

1980
04:00:15,657 --> 04:00:17,850
and they might actually
put themselves to risk.

1981
04:00:17,850 --> 04:00:19,860
Sometimes that's electric
cars, sometimes something,

1982
04:00:19,860 --> 04:00:21,780
some leakage could be
happening in the car.

1983
04:00:21,780 --> 04:00:24,357
They might just move the car
in a parking lot themselves

1984
04:00:24,357 --> 04:00:27,360
and they could create more
problems for themselves

1985
04:00:27,360 --> 04:00:29,880
than $250 worth because you know,

1986
04:00:29,880 --> 04:00:33,900
people will not call
911 if they really think

1987
04:00:33,900 --> 04:00:36,393
that's not dangerous
enough or serious enough.

1988
04:00:38,760 --> 04:00:40,890
- Yeah, in many cases it's
not the accident victim

1989
04:00:40,890 --> 04:00:42,450
that calls.

1990
04:00:42,450 --> 04:00:44,610
A lot of times it's
called in by other sources

1991
04:00:44,610 --> 04:00:46,350
in the fire response.

1992
04:00:46,350 --> 04:00:47,640
I agree with your comment.

1993
04:00:47,640 --> 04:00:49,710
That's why I said this is a fixed cost.

1994
04:00:49,710 --> 04:00:52,200
The fire department is
a fixed cost structure.

1995
04:00:52,200 --> 04:00:56,430
Whether I have zero calls or 100 calls,

1996
04:00:56,430 --> 04:00:58,290
the bill is the same effectively.

1997
04:00:58,290 --> 04:01:01,230
A little bit of gas is
the only difference.

1998
04:01:01,230 --> 04:01:05,760
So it is purely an item
and it was just a balance.

1999
04:01:05,760 --> 04:01:08,940
It's no different than you know,

2000
04:01:08,940 --> 04:01:11,040
to say, well, it's a fixed cost structure,

2001
04:01:11,040 --> 04:01:13,293
therefore there shouldn't be a user fee.

2002
04:01:14,250 --> 04:01:16,470
My hockey arena is a fixed cost structure,

2003
04:01:16,470 --> 04:01:18,750
but I charge $200 an hour to rent the ice

2004
04:01:18,750 --> 04:01:20,010
for people who use it.

2005
04:01:20,010 --> 04:01:23,160
And so if you had the
unfortunate need to use

2006
04:01:23,160 --> 04:01:25,980
a fire service, it is a
contribution to the fact

2007
04:01:25,980 --> 04:01:28,920
that keep that fire
service, you know, moving.

2008
04:01:28,920 --> 04:01:31,473
So it's not to be a cost recovery item.

2009
04:01:33,491 --> 04:01:35,370
It is to be, you know,
kind of a contribution

2010
04:01:35,370 --> 04:01:37,170
to the overall cost.

2011
04:01:37,170 --> 04:01:40,770
We used to, for example, if
someone drive off the road

2012
04:01:40,770 --> 04:01:43,680
and hit a sign and caused
damage in the roadway.

2013
04:01:43,680 --> 04:01:44,910
If they were proven to be at fault,

2014
04:01:44,910 --> 04:01:46,410
we would charge them for the full cost,

2015
04:01:46,410 --> 04:01:48,660
because it was unfair to, you know,

2016
04:01:48,660 --> 04:01:50,910
charge all the taxpayers for your error.

2017
04:01:50,910 --> 04:01:53,730
We just can't, you know,
in a perfect world we do it

2018
04:01:53,730 --> 04:01:55,290
to the at fault driver,

2019
04:01:55,290 --> 04:01:57,990
we just can't administratively
do that anymore.

2020
04:01:57,990 --> 04:01:59,070
So because of that,

2021
04:01:59,070 --> 04:02:01,980
that's why we went to this
kind of modified approach.

2022
04:02:01,980 --> 04:02:03,120
- Well thank you.

2023
04:02:03,120 --> 04:02:04,950
I personally like to see more details

2024
04:02:04,950 --> 04:02:07,680
on how many calls were
placed to fire department,

2025
04:02:07,680 --> 04:02:10,980
how many were fire, how many
were motor vehicle accidents.

2026
04:02:10,980 --> 04:02:13,260
So at least we understand
how many percentage

2027
04:02:13,260 --> 04:02:16,350
of firefighters' time is
being used for this week,

2028
04:02:16,350 --> 04:02:17,583
motor vehicle accidents.

2029
04:02:18,630 --> 04:02:20,910
- Our number one call source is...

2030
04:02:20,910 --> 04:02:23,337
So, we average a little less
than 5,000 calls a year.

2031
04:02:23,337 --> 04:02:26,940
Our number one call source is medical.

2032
04:02:26,940 --> 04:02:31,110
Our number two, I believe,
is motor vehicle accidents.

2033
04:02:31,110 --> 04:02:33,630
We average, like on a fire basis,

2034
04:02:33,630 --> 04:02:37,522
we average less than,
my last number is 2023.

2035
04:02:37,522 --> 04:02:41,250
There were 95 fires. So
like 100 fires a year.

2036
04:02:41,250 --> 04:02:43,230
And you got 5,000 total calls.

2037
04:02:43,230 --> 04:02:45,180
So close to 40% of,

2038
04:02:45,180 --> 04:02:47,790
I believe it's 40% of
your calls are medical

2039
04:02:47,790 --> 04:02:51,000
or 46% of the calls are medical calls.

2040
04:02:51,000 --> 04:02:52,620
And then the next biggest classification

2041
04:02:52,620 --> 04:02:54,030
is motor vehicle calls.

2042
04:02:54,030 --> 04:02:54,863
- Okay. Thank you.

2043
04:02:54,863 --> 04:02:57,300
For me, when tourists come
here, they come from overseas,

2044
04:02:57,300 --> 04:02:59,160
US, wherever they're coming from.

2045
04:02:59,160 --> 04:03:01,410
I think it will be hard to bill them,

2046
04:03:01,410 --> 04:03:03,900
but I think more likely
we'll actually bill

2047
04:03:03,900 --> 04:03:06,953
the residents who are paying the taxes.

2048
04:03:06,953 --> 04:03:08,010
So I don't think I will be able to support

2049
04:03:08,010 --> 04:03:09,540
any fee structure.

2050
04:03:09,540 --> 04:03:11,220
That's my opinion.

2051
04:03:11,220 --> 04:03:13,156
- Okay. Thank you for that.

2052
04:03:13,156 --> 04:03:16,011
I've got Councillor Lococo
and then Nieuwesteeg.

2053
04:03:16,011 --> 04:03:18,090
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
I have a few questions.

2054
04:03:18,090 --> 04:03:20,250
In the report it talked about an eligible

2055
04:03:20,250 --> 04:03:22,110
motor vehicle collision.

2056
04:03:22,110 --> 04:03:25,293
What is the definition
of an eligible collision?

2057
04:03:26,430 --> 04:03:28,430
- [Jim] Who would answer that? Chief or?

2058
04:03:29,430 --> 04:03:32,130
What's an eligible
motor vehicle collision?

2059
04:03:32,130 --> 04:03:32,963
- Right.

2060
04:03:33,810 --> 04:03:34,950
- Through the mayor to council.

2061
04:03:34,950 --> 04:03:36,480
It's when we'd actually take action.

2062
04:03:36,480 --> 04:03:39,450
So if we showed up and EMS waved us off,

2063
04:03:39,450 --> 04:03:42,210
we would just continue down the road.

2064
04:03:42,210 --> 04:03:44,820
Could I just one clarification?

2065
04:03:44,820 --> 04:03:48,150
St. Catharines did get
direction from their council

2066
04:03:48,150 --> 04:03:52,183
in late July of 2024 to
start billing for MVCs.

2067
04:03:52,183 --> 04:03:55,950
I actually worked with the
deputy through the MTO process.

2068
04:03:55,950 --> 04:03:59,310
We just were ahead of them as
far as getting ahead of it.

2069
04:03:59,310 --> 04:04:02,040
So St. Catharines is going to be billing.

2070
04:04:02,040 --> 04:04:03,990
They have direction from their council.

2071
04:04:03,990 --> 04:04:07,263
They just don't have any
numbers yet to supply us.

2072
04:04:08,257 --> 04:04:11,400
- Okay, thank you. And
is it $250 per vehicle?

2073
04:04:11,400 --> 04:04:15,933
So if it's a three car
collision, 250 per? Thank you.

2074
04:04:17,040 --> 04:04:19,800
Right now, does the fire department

2075
04:04:19,800 --> 04:04:23,730
know who the drivers
are or the insured are?

2076
04:04:23,730 --> 04:04:26,310
Do we get that information
or you just go help

2077
04:04:26,310 --> 04:04:27,480
and then you leave?

2078
04:04:27,480 --> 04:04:28,500
What happens?

2079
04:04:28,500 --> 04:04:29,550
- [Jim] Chief?

2080
04:04:29,550 --> 04:04:31,290
- Through the Mayor to Council.

2081
04:04:31,290 --> 04:04:34,440
How we would do that is the ARIS system.

2082
04:04:34,440 --> 04:04:36,750
It's the authorized
requester information system

2083
04:04:36,750 --> 04:04:39,450
through the MTO where we
can look up the ownership

2084
04:04:39,450 --> 04:04:41,160
through the license plate.

2085
04:04:41,160 --> 04:04:43,710
And we already have approval for that.

2086
04:04:43,710 --> 04:04:45,000
- Okay. Thank you.

2087
04:04:45,000 --> 04:04:47,910
There are a lot more
motor vehicle accidents

2088
04:04:47,910 --> 04:04:49,440
with e-scooters.

2089
04:04:49,440 --> 04:04:53,220
Is there any discussion
about how that will happen?

2090
04:04:53,220 --> 04:04:55,443
Do you just charge the vehicle?

2091
04:04:56,580 --> 04:04:58,620
- [Jim] You mean versus
the e-scooter rider?

2092
04:04:58,620 --> 04:05:00,090
- Yeah. Because they have no insurance.

2093
04:05:00,090 --> 04:05:02,280
Are you charging the driver?

2094
04:05:02,280 --> 04:05:03,450
- [Jim] It's getting complicated.

2095
04:05:03,450 --> 04:05:05,193
- It does get very complicated.

2096
04:05:07,223 --> 04:05:08,056
- Yeah, for someone riding a-

2097
04:05:08,056 --> 04:05:09,575
- You don't have to answer.
It's just a question.

2098
04:05:09,575 --> 04:05:11,515
- [Jim] Rides into a bus.

2099
04:05:11,515 --> 04:05:12,348
I'm not saying that's ever happened.

2100
04:05:12,348 --> 04:05:13,181
- That's another thing, yeah.

2101
04:05:13,181 --> 04:05:16,003
- [Jim] But if it did,
what would happen then?

2102
04:05:16,003 --> 04:05:17,365
- [Member] Technically it's
a motor vehicle accident.

2103
04:05:17,365 --> 04:05:18,480
- [Jim] The bus gets the bill?

2104
04:05:18,480 --> 04:05:19,313
- [Council Member] Yeah,
the bus gets the bill.

2105
04:05:19,313 --> 04:05:21,360
- Okay, my next question is,

2106
04:05:21,360 --> 04:05:24,390
it talked in the report
about a number of apparatuses

2107
04:05:24,390 --> 04:05:26,970
going to the motor vehicle collision.

2108
04:05:26,970 --> 04:05:29,070
Who decides to send those?

2109
04:05:29,070 --> 04:05:31,770
St. Catharines because
they're dispatching us now?

2110
04:05:31,770 --> 04:05:34,203
Or do we decide the number to send?

2111
04:05:35,040 --> 04:05:36,690
- [Jim] Chief?

2112
04:05:36,690 --> 04:05:37,523
- Through the Mayor to Council.

2113
04:05:37,523 --> 04:05:41,970
We have a set response for
MVCs, which is standard.

2114
04:05:41,970 --> 04:05:45,690
It's automatically two for
municipal or regional roads.

2115
04:05:45,690 --> 04:05:48,272
Our highway response is different.

2116
04:05:48,272 --> 04:05:51,180
And again, we bill the
MTO for those currently.

2117
04:05:51,180 --> 04:05:52,013
- Okay, thank you.

2118
04:05:52,013 --> 04:05:55,440
And then if we're looking
at something like this,

2119
04:05:55,440 --> 04:05:58,860
I know our CAO in the past,
and you just said again now,

2120
04:05:58,860 --> 04:06:01,440
we're paying this fixed
cost whether we go or not.

2121
04:06:01,440 --> 04:06:05,770
So we've been sending our
apparatuses to motor vehicle

2122
04:06:06,630 --> 04:06:08,910
sorry, to EMS calls.

2123
04:06:08,910 --> 04:06:10,983
We're sending our fire to EMS calls.

2124
04:06:11,880 --> 04:06:14,130
Once you start this slippery slope,

2125
04:06:14,130 --> 04:06:16,530
are we going to start
charging for EMS calls?

2126
04:06:16,530 --> 04:06:17,640
Like what is the difference?

2127
04:06:17,640 --> 04:06:20,730
And that's a higher percentage
than motor vehicle accidents.

2128
04:06:20,730 --> 04:06:22,620
I just think it's a very slippery slope.

2129
04:06:22,620 --> 04:06:25,980
I think our taxpayers are
already paying a lot of money.

2130
04:06:25,980 --> 04:06:29,280
I don't feel that it's
appropriate to be charging $250

2131
04:06:29,280 --> 04:06:30,750
or whatever we're looking at.

2132
04:06:30,750 --> 04:06:32,850
I don't want to do a fee for service

2133
04:06:32,850 --> 04:06:36,450
and especially because
we're a tourist city,

2134
04:06:36,450 --> 04:06:37,470
it's just going to add more and more.

2135
04:06:37,470 --> 04:06:39,210
- [Jim] Just question time now yeah.

2136
04:06:39,210 --> 04:06:41,066
- Okay, thank you.
- Okay, thank you.

2137
04:06:41,066 --> 04:06:42,435
Councillor Nieuwesteeg.

2138
04:06:42,435 --> 04:06:44,610
(council member speaking faintly)

2139
04:06:44,610 --> 04:06:48,810
Okay, so what I need
folks is some sort of a,

2140
04:06:48,810 --> 04:06:51,120
unless you have questions, then
we're looking for a motion.

2141
04:06:51,120 --> 04:06:52,380
Councillor Strange, put your hand up

2142
04:06:52,380 --> 04:06:53,820
and then I got Councillor Dabrowski.

2143
04:06:53,820 --> 04:06:58,530
- So if the driver or the
car doesn't pay for it,

2144
04:06:58,530 --> 04:06:59,463
who pays for it?

2145
04:07:02,356 --> 04:07:04,290
- Just through the mayor,
just so I understand.

2146
04:07:04,290 --> 04:07:08,523
So we would bill the plate
owner or the plate owner.

2147
04:07:08,523 --> 04:07:10,200
- I'm just saying if
you're trying to waive the,

2148
04:07:10,200 --> 04:07:11,550
like if there was a,

2149
04:07:11,550 --> 04:07:13,410
something that they were
trying to waive the cost,

2150
04:07:13,410 --> 04:07:15,150
then the taxpayers would be paying for it.

2151
04:07:15,150 --> 04:07:16,170
Would they not be?

2152
04:07:16,170 --> 04:07:17,400
- Yeah, if there's no charge-

2153
04:07:17,400 --> 04:07:19,680
- So, who would you rather want paid?

2154
04:07:19,680 --> 04:07:22,383
The person or they want the
taxpayers to pay for it.

2155
04:07:23,250 --> 04:07:24,548
One or the other.

2156
04:07:24,548 --> 04:07:25,908
So if you don't want that
person to pay for it,

2157
04:07:25,908 --> 04:07:27,758
then all of us are paying for it, so.

2158
04:07:28,860 --> 04:07:30,930
- One at a time. One at a time. Okay.

2159
04:07:30,930 --> 04:07:32,110
But now remember, these are questions.

2160
04:07:32,110 --> 04:07:33,540
We're asking questions.

2161
04:07:33,540 --> 04:07:37,977
Yes Councillor Dabrowski and
then Councillor Nieuwesteeg.

2162
04:07:37,977 --> 04:07:40,200
- And to that point, so the brand damage

2163
04:07:40,200 --> 04:07:42,180
that we can potentially suffer,

2164
04:07:42,180 --> 04:07:44,700
would be in the tens of
hundreds of thousands.

2165
04:07:44,700 --> 04:07:48,360
Out of that $250, once
it's all said and done,

2166
04:07:48,360 --> 04:07:51,930
and sometimes fire will show up to a call

2167
04:07:51,930 --> 04:07:54,360
and they get shoed away,
that cost is there.

2168
04:07:54,360 --> 04:07:55,680
We can't recover that cost.

2169
04:07:55,680 --> 04:07:59,370
So the $53,000 over five
months, the estimate,

2170
04:07:59,370 --> 04:08:02,160
how much of that is true revenue

2171
04:08:02,160 --> 04:08:04,260
that would go back to the fees

2172
04:08:04,260 --> 04:08:06,391
that are paid out by the city?

2173
04:08:06,391 --> 04:08:07,800
Like to see real numbers,

2174
04:08:07,800 --> 04:08:10,020
and if that means we defer, great,

2175
04:08:10,020 --> 04:08:12,150
but I'm just having a hard time seeing

2176
04:08:12,150 --> 04:08:15,090
what the actual number is
and what it actually means

2177
04:08:15,090 --> 04:08:19,320
to the taxpayer in comparison
to the potential brand damage

2178
04:08:19,320 --> 04:08:20,454
that we might suffer.

2179
04:08:20,454 --> 04:08:21,360
- So maybe I would make a suggestion

2180
04:08:21,360 --> 04:08:23,580
because I see this is
not going to go forward.

2181
04:08:23,580 --> 04:08:25,680
It's either going to
go sideways or go down.

2182
04:08:25,680 --> 04:08:27,150
So either we defer it-

2183
04:08:27,150 --> 04:08:28,531
- I'll make a motion to defer.

2184
04:08:28,531 --> 04:08:30,853
- Or we kill it.

2185
04:08:30,853 --> 04:08:32,640
Because right now we're
just talking about it

2186
04:08:32,640 --> 04:08:33,840
without a motion on the floor.

2187
04:08:33,840 --> 04:08:35,190
We're not asking questions.

2188
04:08:35,190 --> 04:08:36,974
You want a motion for deferral?

2189
04:08:36,974 --> 04:08:38,055
- [Chris] Yeah.
- Okay.

2190
04:08:38,055 --> 04:08:40,053
- And to get more information-

2191
04:08:40,053 --> 04:08:41,400
- Once I entertain this motion,

2192
04:08:41,400 --> 04:08:42,926
we can't talk anymore, so.

2193
04:08:42,926 --> 04:08:43,759
- Well, for sure.

2194
04:08:43,759 --> 04:08:44,592
And the reason I'm doing this,
there's a lot of questions

2195
04:08:44,592 --> 04:08:47,010
around the table that are
not answered in that report.

2196
04:08:47,010 --> 04:08:48,480
I'd like to see a report come back

2197
04:08:48,480 --> 04:08:49,620
and we can make a decision later.

2198
04:08:49,620 --> 04:08:51,920
There's no urgency to
make a decision today.

2199
04:08:51,920 --> 04:08:55,170
- So motion for deferral,
requesting more information,

2200
04:08:55,170 --> 04:08:57,330
like the questions that were
asked around the horseshoe.

2201
04:08:57,330 --> 04:08:58,432
- Exactly.

2202
04:08:58,432 --> 04:09:00,370
- Yeah. Okay. Do I have
a seconder for that?

2203
04:09:01,302 --> 04:09:02,910
Councillor Baldinelli. Okay.

2204
04:09:02,910 --> 04:09:05,910
Remember deferral motions,
there's no debate.

2205
04:09:05,910 --> 04:09:08,670
So we're going to just
call the vote on this.

2206
04:09:08,670 --> 04:09:12,840
All those in favor of
deferral. Hands up. Okay. Okay.

2207
04:09:12,840 --> 04:09:15,438
Everybody's opposed. So this is deferred.

2208
04:09:15,438 --> 04:09:16,453
- I'm instead.

2209
04:09:16,453 --> 04:09:17,289
- What's that?

2210
04:09:17,289 --> 04:09:18,320
- I'm instead.

2211
04:09:18,320 --> 04:09:19,957
(council members laugh)

2212
04:09:19,957 --> 04:09:22,590
- Oh, wow. Okay. All right.

2213
04:09:22,590 --> 04:09:24,603
Fair enough. Yes.

2214
04:09:25,800 --> 04:09:28,090
- So just for the additional information

2215
04:09:29,010 --> 04:09:31,710
if we bring a report back,
I just want to understand

2216
04:09:31,710 --> 04:09:34,200
what is the additional information
that you're looking for.

2217
04:09:34,200 --> 04:09:36,930
The estimate on the accidents
was based upon our estimate

2218
04:09:36,930 --> 04:09:39,150
of accidents and the times out by the 250.

2219
04:09:39,150 --> 04:09:40,200
That was the estimate.

2220
04:09:40,200 --> 04:09:42,180
So I just want to understand
what additional information

2221
04:09:42,180 --> 04:09:43,380
we'd like to bring back.

2222
04:09:44,730 --> 04:09:45,900
- I'm sorry, through Mr. Mayor,

2223
04:09:45,900 --> 04:09:49,323
it's like, if you get an accident
and a bystander calls 911,

2224
04:09:49,323 --> 04:09:50,853
then who gets charged?

2225
04:09:52,170 --> 04:09:53,573
- That's one of the questions.

2226
04:09:54,600 --> 04:09:58,143
- Yeah, everything's charged
to the license plate holder.

2227
04:10:00,240 --> 04:10:03,690
And if there is no action,
that's why we said eligible,

2228
04:10:03,690 --> 04:10:06,012
waive it through.

2229
04:10:06,012 --> 04:10:06,845
If there's no fire deployment,

2230
04:10:06,845 --> 04:10:09,063
then we're not charging for that.

2231
04:10:10,020 --> 04:10:13,740
But I think we heard the comments.

2232
04:10:13,740 --> 04:10:15,720
If there's resistance to charging it,

2233
04:10:15,720 --> 04:10:18,960
then that's fine, we'll deal with that.

2234
04:10:18,960 --> 04:10:22,263
I just don't want to write a
report if that's the challenge.

2235
04:10:23,520 --> 04:10:24,660
- Well, I think it was
a combination of things

2236
04:10:24,660 --> 04:10:26,830
and what I was hearing was things like

2237
04:10:28,440 --> 04:10:30,270
so there are 214 accidents.

2238
04:10:30,270 --> 04:10:33,270
So the first things we're
thinking is, what's the breakdown?

2239
04:10:33,270 --> 04:10:36,000
How many were locals?
How many were tourists?

2240
04:10:36,000 --> 04:10:38,040
How many were around the region visiting?

2241
04:10:38,040 --> 04:10:41,306
Maybe a breakdown of those 214.

2242
04:10:41,306 --> 04:10:43,890
Well, and the actual cost,
there really isn't a cost

2243
04:10:43,890 --> 04:10:46,110
because we're already paying
for our fire department.

2244
04:10:46,110 --> 04:10:47,640
It's already paid through our taxes.

2245
04:10:47,640 --> 04:10:49,920
So they're waiting in the station,

2246
04:10:49,920 --> 04:10:53,220
so now we deploy them unless
we have to get back up

2247
04:10:53,220 --> 04:10:55,460
or bring in overtime, that's different.

2248
04:10:55,460 --> 04:10:56,430
(council member speaking faintly)

2249
04:10:56,430 --> 04:10:59,010
Yes, So the questions, I'm
trying to bring him questions.

2250
04:10:59,010 --> 04:11:02,133
Thank you, so those are the
kind of questions I think.

2251
04:11:03,420 --> 04:11:05,957
Only if there's things that
they're going to bring back

2252
04:11:05,957 --> 04:11:07,861
in the report, is that what
you're bringing forward?

2253
04:11:07,861 --> 04:11:08,880
Okay.

2254
04:11:08,880 --> 04:11:10,920
- The other question, all I heard was may,

2255
04:11:10,920 --> 04:11:12,300
the insurance may pay for it.

2256
04:11:12,300 --> 04:11:13,530
Can we get a definitive?

2257
04:11:13,530 --> 04:11:14,970
Is the insurance going to pay for it?

2258
04:11:14,970 --> 04:11:16,680
Or is it coming back to the taxpayer

2259
04:11:16,680 --> 04:11:17,850
out of their own pocket?

2260
04:11:17,850 --> 04:11:19,170
- Okay, so we're not
going to answer that now.

2261
04:11:19,170 --> 04:11:21,779
It'll come back later. Councillor Lococo?

2262
04:11:21,779 --> 04:11:25,863
- The 214 motor vehicle
accidents, is that 428 cars?

2263
04:11:29,670 --> 04:11:33,990
Like 214, but would that
be like $500 each accident

2264
04:11:33,990 --> 04:11:35,370
if there's two?

2265
04:11:35,370 --> 04:11:37,320
- Well, the math they did there was 500

2266
04:11:37,320 --> 04:11:38,610
or 250 times that.

2267
04:11:38,610 --> 04:11:39,780
That's where they came up with 50,000.

2268
04:11:39,780 --> 04:11:40,613
- Right, so that's what I'm saying.

2269
04:11:40,613 --> 04:11:44,190
Is the 53 really accurate if
there's two cars per accident?

2270
04:11:44,190 --> 04:11:45,720
- Another good question. Yep.

2271
04:11:45,720 --> 04:11:50,370
And if it's a fender bender and
an ice storm, is it 10 cars?

2272
04:11:50,370 --> 04:11:52,380
He's going to be starting
to ice the roads up.

2273
04:11:52,380 --> 04:11:54,270
He's not going to want to
have them cleaned anymore.

2274
04:11:54,270 --> 04:11:55,710
- [Council Member] 53,800 divided by-

2275
04:11:55,710 --> 04:11:56,910
- Okay. So we got enough-

2276
04:11:56,910 --> 04:11:58,830
- [Ruth-Ann] One more question?

2277
04:11:58,830 --> 04:11:59,663
- Well, there is no-

2278
04:11:59,663 --> 04:12:00,780
- No, no. For the deferral.

2279
04:12:00,780 --> 04:12:02,846
One of the questions that
they were taking it back

2280
04:12:02,846 --> 04:12:03,679
that they can ask.

2281
04:12:03,679 --> 04:12:04,613
- [Jim] Yes, another question.

2282
04:12:04,613 --> 04:12:05,446
- One more question.

2283
04:12:05,446 --> 04:12:07,290
Councillor Lococo talked
about the e-scooters.

2284
04:12:07,290 --> 04:12:08,250
They're not registered.

2285
04:12:08,250 --> 04:12:11,250
So how are they paying for
this if they get called?

2286
04:12:11,250 --> 04:12:12,083
- So this is good.

2287
04:12:12,083 --> 04:12:13,673
This gives them a few ideas of more things

2288
04:12:13,673 --> 04:12:15,360
I would have to come back and report

2289
04:12:15,360 --> 04:12:17,799
for it to be defeated then.

2290
04:12:17,799 --> 04:12:18,798
So, okay, we're good.

2291
04:12:18,798 --> 04:12:20,418
- [Lori] Mr. Mayor, one more question.

2292
04:12:20,418 --> 04:12:22,352
- I know. Yes.
- Could we bill the...

2293
04:12:22,352 --> 04:12:24,870
I know, you just brought about
does the insurance company

2294
04:12:24,870 --> 04:12:27,390
cover it, but could we
bill the insurance company

2295
04:12:27,390 --> 04:12:29,100
compared to the driver?

2296
04:12:29,100 --> 04:12:30,600
Like the license plate driver.

2297
04:12:30,600 --> 04:12:31,433
Could we bill the insurance company?

2298
04:12:31,433 --> 04:12:32,853
- Okay. Another good question.

2299
04:12:33,691 --> 04:12:35,130
Another good question, Smiley.

2300
04:12:35,130 --> 04:12:37,140
Okay, good. All right (laughs).

2301
04:12:37,140 --> 04:12:37,990
- One more thing.

2302
04:12:40,260 --> 04:12:41,310
- Can we see the cost?

2303
04:12:41,310 --> 04:12:44,070
For example, if a firetruck goes out

2304
04:12:44,070 --> 04:12:46,020
and actually at the site of the accident,

2305
04:12:46,020 --> 04:12:47,700
how much does it cost us, to be honest?

2306
04:12:47,700 --> 04:12:49,770
I just want to know how much it costs.

2307
04:12:49,770 --> 04:12:51,150
- All right, lot of questions.

2308
04:12:51,150 --> 04:12:52,320
This is going to be an exciting report.

2309
04:12:52,320 --> 04:12:54,180
I can't wait till it comes back.

2310
04:12:54,180 --> 04:12:55,530
All right. So we've
already dealt with this.

2311
04:12:55,530 --> 04:12:56,493
Let's go to 9.3.

2312
04:12:57,660 --> 04:13:00,390
Finance, budget timetable,
budget engagement.

2313
04:13:00,390 --> 04:13:02,790
There's a recommendation
that we receive the report.

2314
04:13:02,790 --> 04:13:03,780
- [Victor] Move directly.

2315
04:13:03,780 --> 04:13:04,800
- Moved by Council Pietrangelo.

2316
04:13:04,800 --> 04:13:06,270
Second by Councillor Strange.

2317
04:13:06,270 --> 04:13:09,359
Discussion to the motion.
Councillor Lococo?

2318
04:13:09,359 --> 04:13:10,333
- Not so much discussion,

2319
04:13:10,333 --> 04:13:14,790
but it does talk about if
you work in Niagara Falls,

2320
04:13:14,790 --> 04:13:17,880
but then in number two,
it doesn't say work.

2321
04:13:17,880 --> 04:13:19,080
It says work in one place,

2322
04:13:19,080 --> 04:13:20,370
but not work in another place

2323
04:13:20,370 --> 04:13:21,780
when you're answering the survey.

2324
04:13:21,780 --> 04:13:22,613
- Okay.

2325
04:13:22,613 --> 04:13:23,490
- So if we could just add that.

2326
04:13:23,490 --> 04:13:26,100
- Okay. All right. Ms.
Clark, just acknowledge that.

2327
04:13:26,100 --> 04:13:27,120
- Okay, thank you.

2328
04:13:27,120 --> 04:13:27,990
- Okay. Thank you for that.

2329
04:13:27,990 --> 04:13:29,880
Yes, Councillor Patel?

2330
04:13:29,880 --> 04:13:30,930
- Through you, Mr. Mayor.

2331
04:13:30,930 --> 04:13:32,400
I know other cities do the town hall

2332
04:13:32,400 --> 04:13:33,900
when they have a draft budget come out.

2333
04:13:33,900 --> 04:13:37,530
Do we ever plan to do something
like that with the staff?

2334
04:13:37,530 --> 04:13:39,030
I know St. Catharines does it.

2335
04:13:40,110 --> 04:13:41,670
- Okay. Who?

2336
04:13:41,670 --> 04:13:44,013
- We do not do budget town halls.

2337
04:13:45,000 --> 04:13:47,980
If council ever wants
to do a budget town hall

2338
04:13:49,440 --> 04:13:51,030
we do the survey collection.

2339
04:13:51,030 --> 04:13:53,190
But we do not do a town hall.

2340
04:13:53,190 --> 04:13:56,793
Council can direct us to do a town hall.

2341
04:13:58,770 --> 04:14:01,413
And do that. I've
participated in some of those.

2342
04:14:03,629 --> 04:14:04,679
(audience chuckles)

2343
04:14:04,679 --> 04:14:07,043
- [Council Member] Leave it there.

2344
04:14:07,043 --> 04:14:10,950
Okay. So we'll call the
vote, all those in favor.

2345
04:14:10,950 --> 04:14:12,210
Okay, that's unanimous. Thank you.

2346
04:14:12,210 --> 04:14:16,530
9.4, Finance Affordable
Housing Development Charge

2347
04:14:16,530 --> 04:14:18,240
Exemption Agreement.

2348
04:14:18,240 --> 04:14:23,240
There are one, two, three,
three recommendations there.

2349
04:14:24,020 --> 04:14:24,853
(Victor speaks faintly)

2350
04:14:24,853 --> 04:14:25,950
Motion by Councillor Pietrangelo,

2351
04:14:25,950 --> 04:14:27,660
second by Councillor Patel.

2352
04:14:27,660 --> 04:14:29,430
Yes, Councillor Lococo?

2353
04:14:29,430 --> 04:14:31,590
- Just a couple of quick questions.

2354
04:14:31,590 --> 04:14:33,840
What if the company goes bankrupt?

2355
04:14:33,840 --> 04:14:37,500
What happens within that
time period of the agreement?

2356
04:14:37,500 --> 04:14:39,210
Does that go onto the new purchaser

2357
04:14:39,210 --> 04:14:41,940
that they have to continue
it? How does that work?

2358
04:14:41,940 --> 04:14:43,773
- Who would answer that question?

2359
04:14:44,940 --> 04:14:45,813
- I may start.

2360
04:14:46,980 --> 04:14:51,480
So they have to complete the
project to obtain the TIG.

2361
04:14:51,480 --> 04:14:54,570
And the DC waiver.

2362
04:14:54,570 --> 04:14:56,400
So they either complete the project

2363
04:14:56,400 --> 04:14:57,660
if they modify the project,

2364
04:14:57,660 --> 04:14:59,140
then you'd have to make
the assessment for that.

2365
04:14:59,140 --> 04:15:00,840
So if they convert it from residential

2366
04:15:00,840 --> 04:15:02,550
to commercial that's fine.

2367
04:15:02,550 --> 04:15:06,960
But yeah, we've even had
with our TIG programs

2368
04:15:06,960 --> 04:15:09,270
and our DC programs, we've
had sales of buildings

2369
04:15:09,270 --> 04:15:10,980
where the TIGs were continuing on

2370
04:15:10,980 --> 04:15:12,180
and we had to factor that out.

2371
04:15:12,180 --> 04:15:16,890
We had a conversion issue
from rental to condo.

2372
04:15:16,890 --> 04:15:20,250
So we just kind of modify it
with that original program.

2373
04:15:20,250 --> 04:15:22,950
It's one of the reasons why we
went down to a five-year TIG

2374
04:15:22,950 --> 04:15:24,960
to avoid those administrative nightmares

2375
04:15:24,960 --> 04:15:27,009
where things change.

2376
04:15:27,009 --> 04:15:28,200
- Okay. And last question.

2377
04:15:28,200 --> 04:15:30,450
It's stated that staff might be required

2378
04:15:30,450 --> 04:15:32,610
to find alternative funding to finance

2379
04:15:32,610 --> 04:15:35,880
the DC eligible capital projects.

2380
04:15:35,880 --> 04:15:37,653
Where are we getting the money?

2381
04:15:40,680 --> 04:15:42,147
- Yeah, through the mayor.

2382
04:15:43,791 --> 04:15:45,450
We don't know the uptake
of these programs, right?

2383
04:15:45,450 --> 04:15:48,270
And it's combined of all
the other incentive programs

2384
04:15:48,270 --> 04:15:49,103
that we have.

2385
04:15:49,103 --> 04:15:52,980
So you know, we'll either
do cap limits on them

2386
04:15:52,980 --> 04:15:54,093
at some point in time.

2387
04:15:55,020 --> 04:15:59,823
Reserve funding, or you know,

2388
04:16:01,200 --> 04:16:06,200
or just undertake an increase
in levy which will be coming

2389
04:16:07,738 --> 04:16:08,571
for the funding of the program.

2390
04:16:08,571 --> 04:16:09,720
That's why we put the full funding down.

2391
04:16:09,720 --> 04:16:11,460
So there could be a levy increase

2392
04:16:11,460 --> 04:16:13,470
attached to these incentives.

2393
04:16:13,470 --> 04:16:15,810
- So that's taxpayers levy increase?

2394
04:16:15,810 --> 04:16:17,430
- Yep.
- For this program?

2395
04:16:17,430 --> 04:16:18,570
- Well, not just for...

2396
04:16:18,570 --> 04:16:21,150
This one's minor compared
to the other ones

2397
04:16:21,150 --> 04:16:22,979
the council approved.

2398
04:16:22,979 --> 04:16:24,390
- CIPs.
- Yeah, all the CIPs.

2399
04:16:24,390 --> 04:16:26,433
So at the end of the day,

2400
04:16:27,720 --> 04:16:29,370
you got revenue and you got expenses.

2401
04:16:29,370 --> 04:16:31,653
So if you cut your revenue.

2402
04:16:32,820 --> 04:16:36,060
- Okay, it was just when I
read the statement there,

2403
04:16:36,060 --> 04:16:37,740
I wondered if there was a plan

2404
04:16:37,740 --> 04:16:39,510
that you might have to
look for it elsewhere.

2405
04:16:39,510 --> 04:16:40,343
Thank you.

2406
04:16:41,310 --> 04:16:42,450
- Okay. Thank you for that.

2407
04:16:42,450 --> 04:16:45,000
So we'll call the vote,
all those in favor. Okay.

2408
04:16:45,000 --> 04:16:47,190
And that's unanimous. Thank you for that.

2409
04:16:47,190 --> 04:16:52,190
We're now going to 9.5, fee waiver.

2410
04:16:52,320 --> 04:16:55,116
So there are four requests. Okay.

2411
04:16:55,116 --> 04:16:55,949
(Victor speaking faintly)

2412
04:16:55,949 --> 04:16:57,390
Motion by Councillor Pietrangelo,

2413
04:16:57,390 --> 04:16:58,940
second by Councillor Dabrowski.

2414
04:17:01,292 --> 04:17:02,550
If there's no discussion,
we'll call the vote.

2415
04:17:02,550 --> 04:17:05,400
All those in favor. That's
unanimous. Thank you.

2416
04:17:05,400 --> 04:17:10,400
9.6, finance payment plan
program for drainage assessment.

2417
04:17:11,370 --> 04:17:13,560
There's a recommendation that we approved.

2418
04:17:13,560 --> 04:17:17,550
Do we have a motion? First
I'm looking for a motion.

2419
04:17:17,550 --> 04:17:19,260
Do we have a motion for approval?

2420
04:17:19,260 --> 04:17:21,060
Moved by Councillor Kerrio.

2421
04:17:21,060 --> 04:17:23,584
Seconded by Councillor Strange.

2422
04:17:23,584 --> 04:17:25,830
Okay, we have it on the
floor. Councillor Lococo.

2423
04:17:25,830 --> 04:17:26,760
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2424
04:17:26,760 --> 04:17:29,949
A question from a
resident, Bank of Canada.

2425
04:17:29,949 --> 04:17:31,840
Is it the Bank of Canada
rate that it's one to one

2426
04:17:31,840 --> 04:17:34,890
or is there going to be
additional percentage on that

2427
04:17:34,890 --> 04:17:36,963
or is there an admin fee on that?

2428
04:17:37,817 --> 04:17:39,270
- Okay. Ms. Clark, we'll answer this one.

2429
04:17:39,270 --> 04:17:40,963
- Thank you through the
mayor. I did actually,

2430
04:17:40,963 --> 04:17:42,690
I just saw that
correspondence this morning

2431
04:17:42,690 --> 04:17:44,940
and I did respond to all of council

2432
04:17:44,940 --> 04:17:46,170
and the resident this morning.

2433
04:17:46,170 --> 04:17:48,270
The reports correctly stated

2434
04:17:48,270 --> 04:17:51,270
that it is going to be the
Bank of Canada bank rate.

2435
04:17:51,270 --> 04:17:53,550
If we intended to add an additional fee,

2436
04:17:53,550 --> 04:17:55,950
it would have said plus 0.5%, for example.

2437
04:17:55,950 --> 04:17:58,380
So the report is very
clear what the rate is.

2438
04:17:58,380 --> 04:18:02,040
It's 2.5% at the time of writing this.

2439
04:18:02,040 --> 04:18:03,870
- And there's no admin fee,

2440
04:18:03,870 --> 04:18:05,790
like when we looked at our tax deferral,

2441
04:18:05,790 --> 04:18:07,470
there's an admin fee at the beginning.

2442
04:18:07,470 --> 04:18:08,632
There's nothing like that?

2443
04:18:08,632 --> 04:18:09,653
- No, nothing.
- Okay. Thank you.

2444
04:18:10,500 --> 04:18:12,480
- Okay. Any other questions or comments?

2445
04:18:12,480 --> 04:18:15,240
So we'll call the vote.
All those in favor.

2446
04:18:15,240 --> 04:18:16,443
Okay, that's approved.

2447
04:18:17,280 --> 04:18:20,883
9.7, revitalization grant,

2448
04:18:22,020 --> 04:18:24,810
residential loan downtown property.

2449
04:18:24,810 --> 04:18:28,624
And there are three
recommendations that we approve.

2450
04:18:28,624 --> 04:18:29,457
(Victor speaks faintly)

2451
04:18:29,457 --> 04:18:30,889
Motion by Councillor Pietrangelo,

2452
04:18:30,889 --> 04:18:32,040
seconded by Councillor Patel.

2453
04:18:32,040 --> 04:18:35,220
All those in favor.
Okay, that's unanimous.

2454
04:18:35,220 --> 04:18:38,073
9.8, modification to
the Niagara Falls CIP.

2455
04:18:41,400 --> 04:18:42,930
There is one recommendation

2456
04:18:42,930 --> 04:18:45,303
that we approve the modifications.

2457
04:18:46,650 --> 04:18:48,450
Motion by Councillor Nieuwesteeg.

2458
04:18:48,450 --> 04:18:50,940
Second by Councillor Kerrio.

2459
04:18:50,940 --> 04:18:52,893
Speaking to it. Councillor Lococo.

2460
04:18:53,850 --> 04:18:56,100
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor,
I just wanted to confirm

2461
04:18:56,100 --> 04:19:00,030
that like the other CIPs,
it's very clearly stated

2462
04:19:00,030 --> 04:19:02,820
that they can't be used
as vacation rental units.

2463
04:19:02,820 --> 04:19:06,420
I do get that when I read that,
but I just want to confirm.

2464
04:19:06,420 --> 04:19:10,010
- Okay. Can we. Yes, Ms. Dolch?

2465
04:19:12,636 --> 04:19:14,310
- Through the mayor. That is correct.

2466
04:19:14,310 --> 04:19:17,010
So all of the terms within the programs

2467
04:19:17,010 --> 04:19:18,633
will continue to apply.

2468
04:19:19,590 --> 04:19:24,590
The only one that may not
be covered off as much

2469
04:19:24,810 --> 04:19:28,680
in the infill TIG, but it
would be in the DC waiver one.

2470
04:19:28,680 --> 04:19:30,543
But the infill TIG,

2471
04:19:31,800 --> 04:19:35,910
those are usually multiple
story buildings, yeah.

2472
04:19:35,910 --> 04:19:38,100
- Thank you, I was thinking
more of the downtown

2473
04:19:38,100 --> 04:19:40,650
specifically because
it is zoned commercial.

2474
04:19:40,650 --> 04:19:43,110
They are allowed to have
vacation rental units.

2475
04:19:43,110 --> 04:19:45,300
And that was the challenge that we saw

2476
04:19:45,300 --> 04:19:46,440
that when they were allowed

2477
04:19:46,440 --> 04:19:48,090
to have the vacation rental units,

2478
04:19:48,090 --> 04:19:50,460
they evicted the long-term tenants.

2479
04:19:50,460 --> 04:19:54,207
And I don't think it's appropriate
that we'd be giving them

2480
04:19:54,207 --> 04:19:58,020
CIP or other benefits to have a business

2481
04:19:58,020 --> 04:20:01,200
and not go for housing.

2482
04:20:01,200 --> 04:20:04,110
So I just want to make sure
that they're signing something

2483
04:20:04,110 --> 04:20:06,660
that it can't be vacation rental units.

2484
04:20:06,660 --> 04:20:09,630
And then I just wanted to
talk about the presentation

2485
04:20:09,630 --> 04:20:11,850
that we saw today for the land trust.

2486
04:20:11,850 --> 04:20:14,940
And I was looking at the effectiveness

2487
04:20:14,940 --> 04:20:18,240
of different programs compared
to the money that we put in.

2488
04:20:18,240 --> 04:20:23,070
So for example, Welland put in
$2 million and got 83 units.

2489
04:20:23,070 --> 04:20:25,920
Do we have an idea on this one?

2490
04:20:25,920 --> 04:20:30,437
It says that to the end of
2026, it would be 1,250,000

2491
04:20:31,290 --> 04:20:33,870
and then look at 2027.

2492
04:20:33,870 --> 04:20:35,670
If we compare apples to apples,

2493
04:20:35,670 --> 04:20:37,920
I always feel that we're
making decisions in silos.

2494
04:20:37,920 --> 04:20:39,060
We don't have choices.

2495
04:20:39,060 --> 04:20:41,190
Where do we want to spend $2 million

2496
04:20:41,190 --> 04:20:44,070
to get certain number of units?

2497
04:20:44,070 --> 04:20:46,320
Do we have an idea about how many units

2498
04:20:46,320 --> 04:20:50,460
we could get for 1.25 million for 2026

2499
04:20:50,460 --> 04:20:53,460
and then how many for 2027?

2500
04:20:53,460 --> 04:20:56,763
- [Jim] So who would want
to address that question?

2501
04:20:59,100 --> 04:21:01,053
Ms. Dolch will start I guess, and then.

2502
04:21:03,000 --> 04:21:06,810
- I'll start and then
Ms. Hanson can jump in.

2503
04:21:06,810 --> 04:21:10,083
Obviously an estimate
is tough how many units.

2504
04:21:11,700 --> 04:21:15,570
We've come up with the
best program we think

2505
04:21:15,570 --> 04:21:20,570
in order to just provide you
with some initial numbers.

2506
04:21:20,820 --> 04:21:22,950
We could, to incentivize.

2507
04:21:22,950 --> 04:21:27,420
If we wanted to incentivize
affordable, attainable housing,

2508
04:21:27,420 --> 04:21:31,290
truly, this is a small,
small drop in the bucket.

2509
04:21:31,290 --> 04:21:33,540
As you know from our
Park Street contributions

2510
04:21:33,540 --> 04:21:35,520
and everything else,
obviously you heard today

2511
04:21:35,520 --> 04:21:38,460
from the Land Trust about
the land contributions

2512
04:21:38,460 --> 04:21:42,210
and the costs that were
contributed to just one project.

2513
04:21:42,210 --> 04:21:43,710
It is big.

2514
04:21:43,710 --> 04:21:47,520
But these programs are
incentivizing certain things.

2515
04:21:47,520 --> 04:21:50,760
Obviously affordable,
attainable rental is a big one

2516
04:21:50,760 --> 04:21:52,320
in our new programs.

2517
04:21:52,320 --> 04:21:56,250
And now this newest one
downtown and in the core

2518
04:21:56,250 --> 04:21:58,590
is trying to incentivize
just some renovations

2519
04:21:58,590 --> 04:21:59,850
in existing buildings.

2520
04:21:59,850 --> 04:22:03,450
So I think all these things
start to add up together

2521
04:22:03,450 --> 04:22:06,750
and obviously we can
only give you, you know,

2522
04:22:06,750 --> 04:22:09,300
an estimate on what we think.

2523
04:22:09,300 --> 04:22:11,284
- And what is the estimate?

2524
04:22:11,284 --> 04:22:12,368
- Oh, and I'll-

2525
04:22:12,368 --> 04:22:13,500
- Specifically for downtown,

2526
04:22:13,500 --> 04:22:14,460
That's what I'm looking at.

2527
04:22:14,460 --> 04:22:15,660
I'm fine with the other ones.

2528
04:22:15,660 --> 04:22:17,760
We've already gone through those CIP,

2529
04:22:17,760 --> 04:22:19,350
but it's specifically the downtown.

2530
04:22:19,350 --> 04:22:20,850
Where are we spending the money

2531
04:22:20,850 --> 04:22:22,260
and how many units are we getting?

2532
04:22:22,260 --> 04:22:24,300
- Yeah, through Your Worship,

2533
04:22:24,300 --> 04:22:26,640
we don't have those numbers at this point.

2534
04:22:26,640 --> 04:22:31,300
I think the intent was to
see the uptake through 2026

2535
04:22:32,204 --> 04:22:34,620
and then go back to council
at the beginning of 2027

2536
04:22:34,620 --> 04:22:36,780
with some specific numbers
and recommendations

2537
04:22:36,780 --> 04:22:39,060
for the 2027 budget.

2538
04:22:39,060 --> 04:22:41,370
- Okay, thank you. This is
where I have the challenge.

2539
04:22:41,370 --> 04:22:43,800
I think we should be looking
at all of the options

2540
04:22:43,800 --> 04:22:44,633
and then decide.

2541
04:22:44,633 --> 04:22:47,340
I don't like making
decisions in little silos.

2542
04:22:47,340 --> 04:22:49,500
You know, maybe we can
get more bang for our buck

2543
04:22:49,500 --> 04:22:51,330
instead of spending it to that.

2544
04:22:51,330 --> 04:22:54,210
Maybe we could be doing
something else. So thank you.

2545
04:22:54,210 --> 04:22:56,583
- Okay, thank you. Councillor Nieuwesteeg?

2546
04:22:56,583 --> 04:22:59,580
- Just to Councillor Lococo's
point about the downtown

2547
04:22:59,580 --> 04:23:03,540
and Main Street having
vacation rental units.

2548
04:23:03,540 --> 04:23:05,940
I think if we put in
the parking requirement

2549
04:23:05,940 --> 04:23:09,060
of two parking spots, I think
that would eliminate that

2550
04:23:09,060 --> 04:23:11,700
issue altogether because
most of those buildings

2551
04:23:11,700 --> 04:23:12,780
don't have their own parking.

2552
04:23:12,780 --> 04:23:16,140
They rely on street parking,
so maybe that can be included.

2553
04:23:16,140 --> 04:23:17,880
I just also want to make another comment

2554
04:23:17,880 --> 04:23:19,320
to your point about more bang,

2555
04:23:19,320 --> 04:23:23,010
but it's also about revitalization
of those areas as well.

2556
04:23:23,010 --> 04:23:26,490
So I don't think we can lose
focus of trying to recreate

2557
04:23:26,490 --> 04:23:28,020
those areas at the same time

2558
04:23:28,020 --> 04:23:31,023
as looking at housing
or affordable housing.

2559
04:23:32,580 --> 04:23:34,660
- Okay. Any other questions or comments?

2560
04:23:34,660 --> 04:23:35,493
Okay. See none.

2561
04:23:35,493 --> 04:23:37,917
We'll call the vote. All those in favor.

2562
04:23:37,917 --> 04:23:40,740
Okay, and that's unanimous.
Thank you for that.

2563
04:23:40,740 --> 04:23:41,750
Now we go to 9.9,

2564
04:23:42,802 --> 04:23:44,970
the new official plan
recommendation report.

2565
04:23:44,970 --> 04:23:45,993
Councillor Strange?

2566
04:23:45,993 --> 04:23:47,250
- Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2567
04:23:47,250 --> 04:23:49,140
I'd like to make an amendment

2568
04:23:49,140 --> 04:23:52,560
for the official plan
recommendation report.

2569
04:23:52,560 --> 04:23:54,870
And it came down from the last meeting.

2570
04:23:54,870 --> 04:23:57,740
I want to correct the urban boundary line

2571
04:23:57,740 --> 04:24:00,900
in Chippawa between
Willoughby Road and Sodom Road

2572
04:24:00,900 --> 04:24:05,310
as requested at the public
meeting by Mr. Rocky Vacca,

2573
04:24:05,310 --> 04:24:08,163
by adding the 20 meters additional depth.

2574
04:24:09,060 --> 04:24:10,860
It's going to be more efficient.

2575
04:24:10,860 --> 04:24:14,130
And the rationale is for the
20 meter additional depth

2576
04:24:14,130 --> 04:24:18,990
is to increase the DC recovery by 350%,

2577
04:24:18,990 --> 04:24:22,290
which will help pay for the
construction of Willick Road

2578
04:24:22,290 --> 04:24:26,670
and makes for more efficient
and use of urban land services.

2579
04:24:26,670 --> 04:24:29,660
It's going to go from 19 very deep lots

2580
04:24:29,660 --> 04:24:32,820
to 91 more efficient lots.

2581
04:24:32,820 --> 04:24:34,530
- Okay. Do you have a seconder?

2582
04:24:34,530 --> 04:24:36,780
Second by Councillor Nieuwesteeg.

2583
04:24:36,780 --> 04:24:38,940
Yes Councillor Pietrangelo?

2584
04:24:38,940 --> 04:24:39,810
- Thanks, Your Worship.

2585
04:24:39,810 --> 04:24:43,740
On this particular one
that deals with extending

2586
04:24:43,740 --> 04:24:44,970
the boundary south of Willick.

2587
04:24:44,970 --> 04:24:46,020
I have a conflict.

2588
04:24:46,020 --> 04:24:48,090
The landowner, sponsors,

2589
04:24:48,090 --> 04:24:50,910
competitive curlers and
my sons are recipients.

2590
04:24:50,910 --> 04:24:53,820
So I have to declare a
conflict on this one.

2591
04:24:53,820 --> 04:24:55,260
I'll hand that in to the clerk.

2592
04:24:55,260 --> 04:24:56,093
- [Jim] Okay.

2593
04:24:56,093 --> 04:24:57,660
- And then if you just want to
let me know when you're done,

2594
04:24:57,660 --> 04:24:58,765
I can come back in.

2595
04:24:58,765 --> 04:24:59,598
- Okay. Thanks.

2596
04:24:59,598 --> 04:25:02,670
- So Mr. Clerk, I'm
guessing that we would vote

2597
04:25:02,670 --> 04:25:04,830
on the amendment first,

2598
04:25:04,830 --> 04:25:09,480
and then it would be added to
the motion if it's successful.

2599
04:25:09,480 --> 04:25:10,313
Is that right?

2600
04:25:10,313 --> 04:25:11,430
Then we vote as the vote. Yes?

2601
04:25:11,430 --> 04:25:12,750
Okay.

2602
04:25:12,750 --> 04:25:15,810
So discussion to the
amendment. Councillor Lococo?

2603
04:25:15,810 --> 04:25:18,520
- I did send an email to our staff

2604
04:25:19,800 --> 04:25:23,040
on this specific part
about the correction.

2605
04:25:23,040 --> 04:25:27,240
On the minutes from last
meeting on page three,

2606
04:25:27,240 --> 04:25:29,760
Mr. Matson, did you receive
my email about this?

2607
04:25:29,760 --> 04:25:31,553
Do you know what I'm speaking about?

2608
04:25:32,430 --> 04:25:35,310
So on the second paragraph
specifically about this,

2609
04:25:35,310 --> 04:25:36,240
about the Willick,

2610
04:25:36,240 --> 04:25:39,900
it's saying that it be
corrected by adjusting.

2611
04:25:39,900 --> 04:25:42,750
That's not actually true.
It's not being corrected.

2612
04:25:42,750 --> 04:25:44,280
It was being requested.

2613
04:25:44,280 --> 04:25:46,350
So I think the minutes
should reflect that.

2614
04:25:46,350 --> 04:25:51,150
And then the next paragraph
about Jeremy Brown,

2615
04:25:51,150 --> 04:25:54,090
again, being corrected,
it's not being corrected.

2616
04:25:54,090 --> 04:25:55,860
They were asking, they were requesting

2617
04:25:55,860 --> 04:25:57,870
for an amendment or a change.

2618
04:25:57,870 --> 04:26:00,180
So I would just like to
make sure that those minutes

2619
04:26:00,180 --> 04:26:03,570
get amended because those
are not the right words.

2620
04:26:03,570 --> 04:26:04,713
- Okay. Thank you.

2621
04:26:06,480 --> 04:26:07,994
Mr. Clerk, okay.

2622
04:26:07,994 --> 04:26:09,810
Did you want to speak? Yep.

2623
04:26:09,810 --> 04:26:14,580
- Yeah, I don't feel that
that changes the intent

2624
04:26:14,580 --> 04:26:17,583
of the motion, but yes, we can
make that grammarical change.

2625
04:26:18,510 --> 04:26:21,630
- Okay. Are there any other.

2626
04:26:21,630 --> 04:26:23,130
Okay, so we voted on the amendment.

2627
04:26:23,130 --> 04:26:26,190
So now I need, unless
there's any other amendments,

2628
04:26:26,190 --> 04:26:27,123
I need the.

2629
04:26:28,085 --> 04:26:28,918
- [Council Member] We didn't vote?

2630
04:26:28,918 --> 04:26:31,020
- Oh, we didn't vote.
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

2631
04:26:31,020 --> 04:26:35,190
All those in favor. Okay.
Opposed? Okay. One opposed.

2632
04:26:35,190 --> 04:26:36,813
One conflicted.

2633
04:26:37,650 --> 04:26:39,950
You have an amendment?
Okay. Councillor Patel.

2634
04:26:43,830 --> 04:26:46,410
- The schedule of our
Niagara Falls official plan

2635
04:26:46,410 --> 04:26:47,243
to amend it include the-

2636
04:26:47,243 --> 04:26:48,330
- [Jim] Do you want to
call Vic back? I'm sorry.

2637
04:26:48,330 --> 04:26:50,100
Settlement area boundaries,

2638
04:26:50,100 --> 04:26:53,367
existing development pocket
of land at 8278, 8328

2639
04:26:54,983 --> 04:26:58,503
and 8356 Thorold Stone
Road, west of Keller.

2640
04:26:59,730 --> 04:27:01,350
There was the application submitted.

2641
04:27:01,350 --> 04:27:02,183
The reason for it,

2642
04:27:02,183 --> 04:27:05,430
because it is actually
divided by Shriner's Creek.

2643
04:27:05,430 --> 04:27:07,800
When you think there's
the agricultural land,

2644
04:27:07,800 --> 04:27:10,140
and there's a subdivision
right across the street

2645
04:27:10,140 --> 04:27:12,360
that was carved out of the...

2646
04:27:12,360 --> 04:27:16,257
The urban boundary expansion
happened a few years ago

2647
04:27:16,257 --> 04:27:17,910
and they made a subdivision there.

2648
04:27:17,910 --> 04:27:21,660
And this area already has homes there.

2649
04:27:21,660 --> 04:27:24,540
There's already curbs there.
There's already water there.

2650
04:27:24,540 --> 04:27:28,770
So I don't know why we can't
expand the urban boundary there

2651
04:27:28,770 --> 04:27:30,450
because there's already everything there.

2652
04:27:30,450 --> 04:27:32,762
We never rezoning it.
We're not doing anything.

2653
04:27:32,762 --> 04:27:34,050
It's just bringing that in.

2654
04:27:34,050 --> 04:27:36,450
And it might be opportunity

2655
04:27:36,450 --> 04:27:40,164
to have a more attainable
housing here in the future.

2656
04:27:40,164 --> 04:27:42,644
So I won't, I would like
to put the amendment in.

2657
04:27:42,644 --> 04:27:44,336
- [Jim] Okay. So you've got a motion.

2658
04:27:44,336 --> 04:27:45,169
- Yes.

2659
04:27:45,169 --> 04:27:46,470
- [Jim] And seconded by
Councillor Dabrowski.

2660
04:27:46,470 --> 04:27:47,880
Okay, do we have any?

2661
04:27:47,880 --> 04:27:50,250
- [Council Member] I didn't
even need (speaks faintly)

2662
04:27:50,250 --> 04:27:52,170
- Oh yeah. I'm sorry.
I should have waited.

2663
04:27:52,170 --> 04:27:54,321
- So there was one application
for Thorold Stone Road.

2664
04:27:54,321 --> 04:27:56,250
There was a few parcels of housing

2665
04:27:56,250 --> 04:27:57,780
that they want to bring an urban boundary.

2666
04:27:57,780 --> 04:28:00,810
There's already water there.
They have curbs on the road.

2667
04:28:00,810 --> 04:28:02,490
And then I'm asking for rezoning.

2668
04:28:02,490 --> 04:28:05,160
It's separated by the
Usher's Creek right there.

2669
04:28:05,160 --> 04:28:07,878
In the back is all green land back there.

2670
04:28:07,878 --> 04:28:10,620
So they're not affecting any
of the neighbors there either.

2671
04:28:10,620 --> 04:28:12,576
And there's already plaza there.

2672
04:28:12,576 --> 04:28:13,500
They have the services there.

2673
04:28:13,500 --> 04:28:16,230
There's only matter of
the expanding services.

2674
04:28:16,230 --> 04:28:19,110
And if in the future they want
to put more housing there,

2675
04:28:19,110 --> 04:28:21,660
it's cheap ways to get more
attainable housing there.

2676
04:28:21,660 --> 04:28:22,770
That's the way I see it.

2677
04:28:22,770 --> 04:28:24,880
Because there's not a
lot we are doing there.

2678
04:28:24,880 --> 04:28:26,610
We're not changing zoning there.

2679
04:28:26,610 --> 04:28:27,930
That's the one thing stood out to me.

2680
04:28:27,930 --> 04:28:30,420
So I would like to put amendment for that.

2681
04:28:30,420 --> 04:28:35,420
- So we have the motion
and before we vote on.

2682
04:28:35,670 --> 04:28:36,720
So we got the motion on the floor.

2683
04:28:36,720 --> 04:28:40,230
I'm going to ask staff to
weigh in on it as well.

2684
04:28:40,230 --> 04:28:41,700
And then we'll get some.

2685
04:28:41,700 --> 04:28:42,533
I want to give you time.

2686
04:28:42,533 --> 04:28:43,710
I'm just going to talk for a second

2687
04:28:43,710 --> 04:28:45,000
so you got time to think.

2688
04:28:45,000 --> 04:28:48,120
So we're going to go to
staff now for a comment.

2689
04:28:48,120 --> 04:28:49,080
Then I'm going to come to council.

2690
04:28:49,080 --> 04:28:51,780
- [Lori] Could staff also
comment on the last one too?

2691
04:28:52,852 --> 04:28:53,970
I know we already voted for it,

2692
04:28:53,970 --> 04:28:55,230
but I would like to hear what staff.

2693
04:28:55,230 --> 04:28:56,700
- We could. We could.

2694
04:28:56,700 --> 04:28:57,900
So let's start with this one,

2695
04:28:57,900 --> 04:29:00,390
the one that we have on the floor.

2696
04:29:00,390 --> 04:29:01,634
- Thank you, Your Worship.

2697
04:29:01,634 --> 04:29:05,370
So in accordance with provincial policy,

2698
04:29:05,370 --> 04:29:07,350
urban boundary expansions
have certain criteria

2699
04:29:07,350 --> 04:29:09,180
and requirements.

2700
04:29:09,180 --> 04:29:13,860
So it does apply to both.
And one of them is need.

2701
04:29:13,860 --> 04:29:15,060
There's other tests as well.

2702
04:29:15,060 --> 04:29:17,110
Servicing, can it be adequately serviced?

2703
04:29:17,944 --> 04:29:19,254
None of that has been demonstrated.

2704
04:29:19,254 --> 04:29:21,660
This exercise is part
of the official plan.

2705
04:29:21,660 --> 04:29:23,850
We did not consider any
urban boundary expansions.

2706
04:29:23,850 --> 04:29:26,550
We did get a lot of
requests to consider it.

2707
04:29:26,550 --> 04:29:28,260
But we didn't consider it for that reason

2708
04:29:28,260 --> 04:29:29,880
and that reason alone.

2709
04:29:29,880 --> 04:29:34,880
We did have a policy put
in place through this draft

2710
04:29:36,015 --> 04:29:38,010
on considerations for
urban boundary expansions

2711
04:29:38,010 --> 04:29:38,880
in the future.

2712
04:29:38,880 --> 04:29:40,890
And the criteria that we would assess

2713
04:29:40,890 --> 04:29:43,020
to look at those in the future.

2714
04:29:43,020 --> 04:29:44,850
Once the policies are approved,

2715
04:29:44,850 --> 04:29:48,330
that's something private
applications can be made

2716
04:29:48,330 --> 04:29:51,720
to consider those, but not
something we considered.

2717
04:29:51,720 --> 04:29:53,550
And we did not feel there was any need

2718
04:29:53,550 --> 04:29:56,350
for any urban boundary
expansions at this point in time.

2719
04:29:57,990 --> 04:30:01,143
And I guess I'll go back to
the previous one as well.

2720
04:30:02,072 --> 04:30:03,210
I know it's a small change.

2721
04:30:03,210 --> 04:30:05,760
Again, we tried to keep
it in line originally

2722
04:30:05,760 --> 04:30:07,890
with the existing lot lines

2723
04:30:07,890 --> 04:30:09,480
rather than having a floating lot line

2724
04:30:09,480 --> 04:30:11,340
in the middle of nowhere.

2725
04:30:11,340 --> 04:30:12,903
- Okay. Thank you for that.

2726
04:30:13,770 --> 04:30:16,890
Any discussion to the motion put forward

2727
04:30:16,890 --> 04:30:18,033
by Councillor Patel?

2728
04:30:19,440 --> 04:30:21,930
Yes, Councillor Pietrangelo.

2729
04:30:21,930 --> 04:30:23,820
- Thanks, Your Worship. I
guess I would say for myself

2730
04:30:23,820 --> 04:30:26,130
that along the lines of what staff said,

2731
04:30:26,130 --> 04:30:28,080
there's a process that
people have to go through

2732
04:30:28,080 --> 04:30:31,380
and to me it's just hard to
pick and choose you know,

2733
04:30:31,380 --> 04:30:34,110
and pull people out and say,
"I'm going to not allow you

2734
04:30:34,110 --> 04:30:35,250
to go through the process,

2735
04:30:35,250 --> 04:30:37,520
but I'm going to make you
go through the process."

2736
04:30:37,520 --> 04:30:39,333
So I tend to agree with staff.

2737
04:30:41,520 --> 04:30:43,743
- Any other discussion to that?

2738
04:30:44,610 --> 04:30:46,710
Okay. Seeing none, we will call the vote.

2739
04:30:46,710 --> 04:30:51,710
All those in favor of the
motion. Okay. Opposed?

2740
04:30:52,200 --> 04:30:55,620
Okay, so that motion
does not move forward.

2741
04:30:55,620 --> 04:30:59,403
Are there any other amendments
proposed by council?

2742
04:31:00,960 --> 04:31:04,380
Okay, seeing none, I'm
looking for a motion. Yes?

2743
04:31:04,380 --> 04:31:05,310
- [Lori] Do we have comments?

2744
04:31:05,310 --> 04:31:07,800
Is the comments going to
come after the motion?

2745
04:31:07,800 --> 04:31:11,460
- Well, now we're going to do
the motion the full report.

2746
04:31:11,460 --> 04:31:14,281
And then there'll be comments
once I get that on the floor.

2747
04:31:14,281 --> 04:31:15,240
- [Council Member] We have speakers to it.

2748
04:31:15,240 --> 04:31:16,470
- Oh, and we have speakers to it.

2749
04:31:16,470 --> 04:31:18,930
Okay. So let's first get it on the floor.

2750
04:31:18,930 --> 04:31:23,310
So the 9.9, I need a motion to move

2751
04:31:23,310 --> 04:31:25,680
the amended official plan
recommendation report

2752
04:31:25,680 --> 04:31:27,060
moved by Councillor Strange.

2753
04:31:27,060 --> 04:31:28,830
Second by Councillor Nieuwesteeg.

2754
04:31:28,830 --> 04:31:30,270
Now we'll start with council.

2755
04:31:30,270 --> 04:31:32,010
Questions, comments? Councillor Lococo?

2756
04:31:32,010 --> 04:31:33,210
- Just a couple of questions

2757
04:31:33,210 --> 04:31:36,960
because we've dealt with this
many, many, many, many times.

2758
04:31:36,960 --> 04:31:39,000
There were a lot of comments on here

2759
04:31:39,000 --> 04:31:40,470
and I was wondering specifically

2760
04:31:40,470 --> 04:31:44,093
for the larger corporations
like Walker, OLEO, OPG,

2761
04:31:44,093 --> 04:31:46,803
and CN, have we addressed those comments?

2762
04:31:48,180 --> 04:31:50,933
- [Jim] We'll go to who? Okay.

2763
04:31:53,252 --> 04:31:54,830
- Through the mayor.

2764
04:31:54,830 --> 04:31:58,410
So we have gone through
the comments with Walker.

2765
04:31:58,410 --> 04:32:01,090
We did get some additional
comments pretty late

2766
04:32:02,160 --> 04:32:05,940
in this process here as a follow-up.

2767
04:32:05,940 --> 04:32:07,860
We can share those with the province.

2768
04:32:07,860 --> 04:32:10,470
I believe they were copied on those.

2769
04:32:10,470 --> 04:32:13,650
The comments from CN, I
believe we've seen before,

2770
04:32:13,650 --> 04:32:17,850
and we didn't feel that that
level of detail was necessary.

2771
04:32:17,850 --> 04:32:20,250
They have jurisdiction.

2772
04:32:20,250 --> 04:32:24,870
So we don't necessarily need
to verbatim put in every policy

2773
04:32:24,870 --> 04:32:27,240
that they have as well.

2774
04:32:27,240 --> 04:32:30,090
And OLEO had one additional concern

2775
04:32:30,090 --> 04:32:31,500
that was brought to our attention.

2776
04:32:31,500 --> 04:32:36,500
We didn't realize that the
railway carried on beyond

2777
04:32:36,720 --> 04:32:38,130
the south of their property.

2778
04:32:38,130 --> 04:32:39,630
So that has been rectified.

2779
04:32:39,630 --> 04:32:42,240
It was rectified late
yesterday in the mapping.

2780
04:32:42,240 --> 04:32:44,430
So that has been changed.

2781
04:32:44,430 --> 04:32:45,783
- The only other one, OPG.

2782
04:32:46,777 --> 04:32:50,220
- OPG, yes, so again, we
don't have jurisdiction

2783
04:32:50,220 --> 04:32:51,660
over what they do with their lands.

2784
04:32:51,660 --> 04:32:56,613
So we have identified a lot
of their lands as open space.

2785
04:32:57,780 --> 04:33:01,110
They can of course do
what they need to do.

2786
04:33:01,110 --> 04:33:04,110
They can continue on
with any existing uses

2787
04:33:04,110 --> 04:33:06,990
that they have on those lands.

2788
04:33:06,990 --> 04:33:11,160
And if there are any challenges
we can of course rectify

2789
04:33:11,160 --> 04:33:13,740
that through a housekeeping
amendment in the future.

2790
04:33:13,740 --> 04:33:16,530
- Great, the only other
comment that I had,

2791
04:33:16,530 --> 04:33:18,993
I was speaking to Ms. Hansen earlier.

2792
04:33:19,920 --> 04:33:24,920
We used to have VRUs in
commercially designated areas.

2793
04:33:25,170 --> 04:33:28,920
Now it's changed to mixed
use to entertainment district

2794
04:33:28,920 --> 04:33:30,540
in Queen Street downtown.

2795
04:33:30,540 --> 04:33:32,250
So my question was, and I've brought it up

2796
04:33:32,250 --> 04:33:35,460
a couple of times, but
we've had a lot of meetings

2797
04:33:35,460 --> 04:33:39,210
back and forth, there's a lot
of stuff here to go through.

2798
04:33:39,210 --> 04:33:40,680
I know that's not going to help now,

2799
04:33:40,680 --> 04:33:42,780
but can we get some information later

2800
04:33:42,780 --> 04:33:46,440
about how many other
opportunities are given

2801
04:33:46,440 --> 04:33:50,220
for VRU owners now with the
three different designations

2802
04:33:50,220 --> 04:33:51,900
compared to the commercial?

2803
04:33:51,900 --> 04:33:54,930
That might work for some
people that they want a VRU,

2804
04:33:54,930 --> 04:33:57,450
and then other residents
might be very disappointed

2805
04:33:57,450 --> 04:33:59,340
that we're giving more opportunities

2806
04:33:59,340 --> 04:34:01,740
because VRUs are
problematic for some people.

2807
04:34:01,740 --> 04:34:03,870
So if we can have that information later,

2808
04:34:03,870 --> 04:34:05,130
I would appreciate that.

2809
04:34:05,130 --> 04:34:06,660
- [Jim] Okay.
- Thank you.

2810
04:34:06,660 --> 04:34:08,190
- Okay, good. Thank you for that.

2811
04:34:08,190 --> 04:34:11,100
Any other questions of council?

2812
04:34:11,100 --> 04:34:14,040
Okay, so if not, Mr. Clerk,
we've got some names of people

2813
04:34:14,040 --> 04:34:15,633
that wanted to speak to this.

2814
04:34:17,580 --> 04:34:19,350
- Yes. Thanks Your Worship.

2815
04:34:19,350 --> 04:34:24,197
First up, we have either Rad Vachevich.

2816
04:34:24,197 --> 04:34:26,970
No, I see he's standing. Okay.

2817
04:34:26,970 --> 04:34:29,643
He's a senior vice president development.

2818
04:34:32,160 --> 04:34:34,080
- [Rad] Perfect pronunciation. Thank you.

2819
04:34:34,080 --> 04:34:35,730
- Was it good? Was he close?

2820
04:34:35,730 --> 04:34:36,563
- [Rad] Very good.

2821
04:34:36,563 --> 04:34:37,740
- Okay.

2822
04:34:37,740 --> 04:34:38,573
- [Assistant] Can I ask if you can turn on

2823
04:34:38,573 --> 04:34:39,406
your microphone, please.

2824
04:34:39,406 --> 04:34:41,037
There's just a button there, thank you.

2825
04:34:41,037 --> 04:34:41,870
- Thank you.

2826
04:34:41,870 --> 04:34:43,320
I have with me Mr. Kevin Freeman,

2827
04:34:43,320 --> 04:34:46,500
Director of Development
Planning with Kaneff.

2828
04:34:46,500 --> 04:34:48,933
Thank you for hearing us today.

2829
04:34:50,298 --> 04:34:51,240
- [Jim] And you've got up to five minutes.

2830
04:34:51,240 --> 04:34:53,190
We'll set that clock there too. Thank you.

2831
04:34:53,190 --> 04:34:56,040
- Oh, I hope I'll be shorter.
- [Jim] Okay.

2832
04:34:56,040 --> 04:35:01,040
- So we acquired the property
just south of the hospital

2833
04:35:01,290 --> 04:35:05,463
and it's 2273, I think, McCredie.

2834
04:35:07,704 --> 04:35:10,200
The main frontier's
property's on Montrose.

2835
04:35:10,200 --> 04:35:12,720
And so we didn't bring
any presentation material,

2836
04:35:12,720 --> 04:35:15,120
unfortunately, for the board.

2837
04:35:15,120 --> 04:35:18,210
But we've actually sent
in a letter requesting

2838
04:35:18,210 --> 04:35:21,750
a portion of our properties be included

2839
04:35:21,750 --> 04:35:26,650
in the hospital secondary
plan or the hospital district

2840
04:35:27,780 --> 04:35:30,840
which would comply with
the region's plans,

2841
04:35:30,840 --> 04:35:33,903
which have that area
also as a growth center.

2842
04:35:34,920 --> 04:35:37,920
The current plan proposes community lands,

2843
04:35:37,920 --> 04:35:39,690
or not community lands.

2844
04:35:39,690 --> 04:35:42,930
What is it, Kevin? Future, future, sorry?

2845
04:35:42,930 --> 04:35:43,845
- Neighborhood.

2846
04:35:43,845 --> 04:35:45,120
Neighborhoods, where I've
got the planner here talking.

2847
04:35:45,120 --> 04:35:48,660
So future neighborhood, which
allows single family homes

2848
04:35:48,660 --> 04:35:51,780
and so forth, which is
fine on some of our lands,

2849
04:35:51,780 --> 04:35:53,670
but because of the
proximity to the hospital

2850
04:35:53,670 --> 04:35:55,380
and having meetings with the hospital,

2851
04:35:55,380 --> 04:35:56,927
we've actually had
meetings with the hospital

2852
04:35:56,927 --> 04:35:59,370
and they're actually
very excited about things

2853
04:35:59,370 --> 04:36:01,380
that we would be
proposing on our property,

2854
04:36:01,380 --> 04:36:04,410
which they see as a shortage
for their operation,

2855
04:36:04,410 --> 04:36:09,410
including labs, pharmacies, places to eat,

2856
04:36:09,600 --> 04:36:14,490
maybe seniors projects
and physiotherapists

2857
04:36:14,490 --> 04:36:15,480
and all those type of things.

2858
04:36:15,480 --> 04:36:17,550
Medical offices for the doctors.

2859
04:36:17,550 --> 04:36:19,320
They say their spaces are too small

2860
04:36:19,320 --> 04:36:24,090
and are quite excited in
us developing our portion

2861
04:36:24,090 --> 04:36:27,093
to satisfy and complement their uses.

2862
04:36:28,140 --> 04:36:31,590
So because of that, we'd
like this land included.

2863
04:36:31,590 --> 04:36:34,140
I guess we're requesting
that this land be included

2864
04:36:35,431 --> 04:36:39,436
in the formal?

2865
04:36:39,436 --> 04:36:40,705
- Hospital growth district.

2866
04:36:40,705 --> 04:36:43,260
- Hospital growth district. Thank you.

2867
04:36:43,260 --> 04:36:45,930
And we think it'd be good for the city.

2868
04:36:45,930 --> 04:36:48,060
We think it'd be very
good for the hospital.

2869
04:36:48,060 --> 04:36:50,460
And the hospital's opening in two years.

2870
04:36:50,460 --> 04:36:54,150
So right now, there are no
plans before you to develop

2871
04:36:54,150 --> 04:36:55,947
any of the things we're
just talking about.

2872
04:36:55,947 --> 04:36:58,800
And the hospital's going to
be in operation in two years.

2873
04:36:58,800 --> 04:37:00,390
And had we have a permit today,

2874
04:37:00,390 --> 04:37:01,680
we'd be starting construction.

2875
04:37:01,680 --> 04:37:03,430
So we're way behind the eight ball.

2876
04:37:04,290 --> 04:37:06,420
Not just us, I mean, the whole community.

2877
04:37:06,420 --> 04:37:11,230
And we'd very much like
to satisfy that need

2878
04:37:13,105 --> 04:37:17,880
and request that we be
accepted in that growth area,

2879
04:37:17,880 --> 04:37:20,730
the hospital growth area,
expansion area, sorry.

2880
04:37:20,730 --> 04:37:23,460
- [Jim] Okay, thank
you. Did staff have any.

2881
04:37:23,460 --> 04:37:25,230
Yes? A question.

2882
04:37:25,230 --> 04:37:27,870
Do you have a question,
Councillor Nieuwesteeg?

2883
04:37:27,870 --> 04:37:29,820
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank
you for the presentation.

2884
04:37:29,820 --> 04:37:30,810
And over to staff.

2885
04:37:30,810 --> 04:37:34,500
So I know we're looking at not having

2886
04:37:34,500 --> 04:37:35,640
urban boundary expansion

2887
04:37:35,640 --> 04:37:37,500
predominantly because of residential.

2888
04:37:37,500 --> 04:37:39,990
However, hearing what
they're asking for right now

2889
04:37:39,990 --> 04:37:42,810
and given the new
development of the hospital,

2890
04:37:42,810 --> 04:37:45,270
is this something that has been considered

2891
04:37:45,270 --> 04:37:47,130
and they're describing a need?

2892
04:37:47,130 --> 04:37:50,163
I have no idea. Is this
something that you can speak to?

2893
04:37:51,060 --> 04:37:53,850
- Thank you, Your Worship,
through you to the Councillor.

2894
04:37:53,850 --> 04:37:56,880
So this area was part of
the urban boundary expansion

2895
04:37:56,880 --> 04:38:00,270
that was granted by the region
in their 2022 official plan.

2896
04:38:00,270 --> 04:38:03,570
So this area is in the urban area.

2897
04:38:03,570 --> 04:38:06,240
It just hasn't been planned yet.

2898
04:38:06,240 --> 04:38:09,070
So this was going to be our
South Hospital secondary plan.

2899
04:38:09,070 --> 04:38:10,860
We'll probably come up with a new name

2900
04:38:10,860 --> 04:38:15,860
because it gets confusing,
but it is planned.

2901
04:38:16,290 --> 04:38:20,250
We were planning it in
2026 budget at the time.

2902
04:38:20,250 --> 04:38:23,130
We did pull it off the
table in the 2026 budget.

2903
04:38:23,130 --> 04:38:27,810
And the reason being is
because it is solely reliant

2904
04:38:27,810 --> 04:38:29,160
on the wastewater treatment plant

2905
04:38:29,160 --> 04:38:31,833
that the region is looking to do.

2906
04:38:33,060 --> 04:38:37,350
Obviously once we get,
hopefully we get some funding

2907
04:38:37,350 --> 04:38:41,130
information for that
wastewater treatment plant,

2908
04:38:41,130 --> 04:38:43,530
but even the construction of
that wastewater treatment plant

2909
04:38:43,530 --> 04:38:46,320
will take at least three
to four years to build.

2910
04:38:46,320 --> 04:38:51,320
If we do a secondary plan
even started in 2026,

2911
04:38:51,840 --> 04:38:53,400
we would have been in a situation

2912
04:38:53,400 --> 04:38:56,580
where that study work would
have expired or been delayed,

2913
04:38:56,580 --> 04:38:58,410
so we didn't start that work.

2914
04:38:58,410 --> 04:39:00,450
It's not to say that obviously

2915
04:39:00,450 --> 04:39:02,730
should we get that, we wouldn't start it.

2916
04:39:02,730 --> 04:39:04,800
I do appreciate the request,

2917
04:39:04,800 --> 04:39:07,080
but we do like to make sure development,

2918
04:39:07,080 --> 04:39:09,120
it happens comprehensively.

2919
04:39:09,120 --> 04:39:13,140
And to designate one person's
property versus another

2920
04:39:13,140 --> 04:39:17,640
in that planned area you
know, I have concerns with.

2921
04:39:17,640 --> 04:39:20,070
It should be developed holistically,

2922
04:39:20,070 --> 04:39:25,070
but we can advance it in the 2027 budget

2923
04:39:25,380 --> 04:39:27,600
should council wish us to do so.

2924
04:39:27,600 --> 04:39:29,220
We're happy to do that work.

2925
04:39:29,220 --> 04:39:32,040
We're happy to work with the landowners

2926
04:39:32,040 --> 04:39:35,400
if they want to work and
undertake their secondary plan

2927
04:39:35,400 --> 04:39:39,210
with our guidance or doing it
ourselves, hiring consultants.

2928
04:39:39,210 --> 04:39:40,770
So we have some options,

2929
04:39:40,770 --> 04:39:42,930
but I do think it needs
to be planned holistically

2930
04:39:42,930 --> 04:39:45,990
because again, obviously
most people don't,

2931
04:39:45,990 --> 04:39:47,801
we have to plan for stormwaters.

2932
04:39:47,801 --> 04:39:50,190
We don't want individual
stormwaters all over.

2933
04:39:50,190 --> 04:39:53,430
We have to plan collectively
to make sure schools,

2934
04:39:53,430 --> 04:39:56,010
public service facilities,
all those things and servicing

2935
04:39:56,010 --> 04:40:00,510
is all done in a holistic
manner for the new areas.

2936
04:40:00,510 --> 04:40:01,343
- Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2937
04:40:01,343 --> 04:40:04,260
So what I'm understanding is
we're just premature right now,

2938
04:40:04,260 --> 04:40:07,680
but this is definitely,
we have plans to address

2939
04:40:07,680 --> 04:40:10,620
the needs in a more holistic plan.

2940
04:40:10,620 --> 04:40:11,880
- Correct, thank you, Your Worship,

2941
04:40:11,880 --> 04:40:13,590
through you the Councillor.

2942
04:40:13,590 --> 04:40:18,270
Yes, and obviously hospital
employment is something

2943
04:40:18,270 --> 04:40:20,580
that will be considered
through the secondary plan

2944
04:40:20,580 --> 04:40:23,250
and very welcoming to hear

2945
04:40:23,250 --> 04:40:25,650
because a lot of people
don't just want to...

2946
04:40:25,650 --> 04:40:27,390
Most people just want residential.

2947
04:40:27,390 --> 04:40:30,870
So it is good to hear that
we do have willing parties

2948
04:40:30,870 --> 04:40:33,600
that want to locate some
of those types of uses

2949
04:40:33,600 --> 04:40:34,433
on their lands.

2950
04:40:34,433 --> 04:40:35,550
- That's very good.

2951
04:40:35,550 --> 04:40:38,700
Thank you very much for
considering coming here and-

2952
04:40:38,700 --> 04:40:41,063
- [Council Member] Also going
to go to our CAO, Councillor.

2953
04:40:42,210 --> 04:40:45,030
- Yeah. And up to council.

2954
04:40:45,030 --> 04:40:50,030
As Ms. Dolch said, we took it
off of our budget last year.

2955
04:40:52,350 --> 04:40:54,750
You know, we are hand tied a little bit

2956
04:40:54,750 --> 04:40:56,703
with the wastewater treatment plant.

2957
04:40:57,780 --> 04:40:59,130
I believe there's going to be,

2958
04:40:59,130 --> 04:41:00,960
you know, I think we're all positive

2959
04:41:00,960 --> 04:41:03,610
that there will be a decision
on that in short order.

2960
04:41:04,470 --> 04:41:07,290
You know, but because
of the break this year

2961
04:41:07,290 --> 04:41:08,823
with the election timing.

2962
04:41:09,900 --> 04:41:14,326
To move things more rapidly
if council wanted to,

2963
04:41:14,326 --> 04:41:19,326
outside of this motion
provide a motion for staff

2964
04:41:20,010 --> 04:41:23,040
to start the RFP process for the studies

2965
04:41:23,040 --> 04:41:25,380
and to account for that in our budget,

2966
04:41:25,380 --> 04:41:28,410
then we don't have to wait
till January, February.

2967
04:41:28,410 --> 04:41:31,140
We can start the RFP
process and move that along

2968
04:41:31,140 --> 04:41:35,610
a little bit quicker so
that we can get these guys

2969
04:41:35,610 --> 04:41:39,210
in the ground and everybody
in that area in the ground.

2970
04:41:39,210 --> 04:41:42,270
And as soon as the wastewater
treatment plant comes on site.

2971
04:41:42,270 --> 04:41:44,610
So that will speed it up
by six to eight months

2972
04:41:44,610 --> 04:41:46,140
on just that small motion.

2973
04:41:46,140 --> 04:41:48,390
- Okay. I'd like to do
that motion right now.

2974
04:41:49,530 --> 04:41:53,094
- I would. Yeah, you'd
have to add it to the...

2975
04:41:53,094 --> 04:41:53,927
You'd have to add it

2976
04:41:53,927 --> 04:41:56,520
or you could just waive procedural order

2977
04:41:56,520 --> 04:41:57,390
and just do that.

2978
04:41:57,390 --> 04:41:59,662
So either way you can add it so that we-

2979
04:41:59,662 --> 04:42:00,765
- That is an amendment.

2980
04:42:00,765 --> 04:42:01,870
We haven't.

2981
04:42:01,870 --> 04:42:03,650
Well, actually, I've got the
motion on the floor right now.

2982
04:42:03,650 --> 04:42:04,483
- Yeah, that's why.

2983
04:42:04,483 --> 04:42:07,470
It might be easier just to
do it as a separate motion,

2984
04:42:07,470 --> 04:42:08,790
waive the procedural order,

2985
04:42:08,790 --> 04:42:11,280
and direct us to start that process

2986
04:42:11,280 --> 04:42:14,555
with the budgetary funds also, so.

2987
04:42:14,555 --> 04:42:16,138
- Do we do that now at the end of the?

2988
04:42:16,138 --> 04:42:18,240
- I would do it subsequent
to this to the approval

2989
04:42:18,240 --> 04:42:19,325
of this OP.

2990
04:42:19,325 --> 04:42:21,090
I don't want to confuse the OP with that.

2991
04:42:21,090 --> 04:42:22,740
- Okay.
- So we'll hold that for now.

2992
04:42:22,740 --> 04:42:23,573
- Thank you.

2993
04:42:23,573 --> 04:42:24,720
- Vance, thank you for that.

2994
04:42:24,720 --> 04:42:26,490
Okay, all right. Thank you, gentlemen.

2995
04:42:26,490 --> 04:42:27,627
- Thank you.

2996
04:42:27,627 --> 04:42:29,973
You want to hang around
maybe and you'll hear it.

2997
04:42:29,973 --> 04:42:31,290
You'll have some news back. And Mr-

2998
04:42:31,290 --> 04:42:34,172
- They've been loving it for
the last three hours, I'm sure.

2999
04:42:34,172 --> 04:42:35,280
- It's very exciting.

3000
04:42:35,280 --> 04:42:38,790
Mr. Clerk, do we have someone
else registered to speak?

3001
04:42:38,790 --> 04:42:39,623
- Yes, Your Worship.

3002
04:42:39,623 --> 04:42:43,560
We do have one other
speaker attending virtually.

3003
04:42:43,560 --> 04:42:46,950
And that is Joe Nethery, and he is online.

3004
04:42:46,950 --> 04:42:49,224
- He is online. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

3005
04:42:49,224 --> 04:42:50,760
(assistant speaking faintly)

3006
04:42:50,760 --> 04:42:52,803
Mr. Nethery, can you hear us?

3007
04:42:54,000 --> 04:42:55,260
- [Joe] Yes, I can.

3008
04:42:55,260 --> 04:42:56,760
I'm actually part of the consulting team

3009
04:42:56,760 --> 04:42:57,810
that was working on the plan.

3010
04:42:57,810 --> 04:43:00,360
I'm just here to answer
any questions (indistinct).

3011
04:43:01,290 --> 04:43:02,403
- Okay. Thank you.

3012
04:43:03,917 --> 04:43:06,167
- 4.3.2, is that who
that is? Or who is that?

3013
04:43:07,251 --> 04:43:08,190
It's someone else. Okay.

3014
04:43:08,190 --> 04:43:11,250
Okay, so then we don't
have any other speakers.

3015
04:43:11,250 --> 04:43:14,835
So we do have the motion
that's been seconded

3016
04:43:14,835 --> 04:43:16,770
and amended and seconded.

3017
04:43:16,770 --> 04:43:20,100
So we'll call the vote now.
All those in favor. Okay.

3018
04:43:20,100 --> 04:43:21,003
Opposed?

3019
04:43:21,840 --> 04:43:24,690
- I'm sorry, I got lost.
What motion is this for?

3020
04:43:24,690 --> 04:43:26,625
- Well, this is for the OP.

3021
04:43:26,625 --> 04:43:27,660
- The OP.
- It's the OP.

3022
04:43:27,660 --> 04:43:28,699
- Yes.

3023
04:43:28,699 --> 04:43:30,450
- Now we're missing, I don't
know, are our councilors,

3024
04:43:30,450 --> 04:43:32,190
do you want to grab them
and bring them in now?

3025
04:43:32,190 --> 04:43:34,643
Because they should be here
for this. It's pretty big.

3026
04:43:35,520 --> 04:43:37,770
Do you need. Oh, she needs
her pass, right? Sorry.

3027
04:43:37,770 --> 04:43:40,353
I don't know. Their timing
isn't great for leaving.

3028
04:43:41,910 --> 04:43:43,650
Voting on the OP, first time in 30 years,

3029
04:43:43,650 --> 04:43:45,323
we should all be in here.

3030
04:43:45,323 --> 04:43:47,160
(council member speaking faintly)

3031
04:43:47,160 --> 04:43:48,465
What's that?

3032
04:43:48,465 --> 04:43:50,543
- [Council Member] 33 years.
- 33 years, okay, yeah.

3033
04:43:56,910 --> 04:43:57,750
Well, here we are.

3034
04:43:57,750 --> 04:44:00,330
Because we're going to vote on the OP now.

3035
04:44:00,330 --> 04:44:02,580
And then we're going to
do a recess after this,

3036
04:44:02,580 --> 04:44:06,120
so that's when we'll have a
chance to have a little break

3037
04:44:06,120 --> 04:44:07,684
and then we'll come back for planning.

3038
04:44:07,684 --> 04:44:09,060
- The Super Bowl of planning.

3039
04:44:09,060 --> 04:44:09,893
- Yes.

3040
04:44:09,893 --> 04:44:10,930
- This is it right now.

3041
04:44:13,440 --> 04:44:14,658
So what I'm going to do, folks-

3042
04:44:14,658 --> 04:44:15,606
- It took us years and years.

3043
04:44:15,606 --> 04:44:16,439
You got to make sure-

3044
04:44:16,439 --> 04:44:17,340
- We actually already took the vote,

3045
04:44:17,340 --> 04:44:19,190
so you can just tell us how you vote.

3046
04:44:20,636 --> 04:44:23,610
(council members speaking faintly)

3047
04:44:23,610 --> 04:44:25,033
- Welcome back, everybody.

3048
04:44:25,033 --> 04:44:27,630
So we're going to take a
recess right after this vote.

3049
04:44:27,630 --> 04:44:28,710
We're going to go back in.

3050
04:44:28,710 --> 04:44:30,870
So we're going to take a 15 minute break.

3051
04:44:30,870 --> 04:44:32,550
- No, the one amendment too.

3052
04:44:32,550 --> 04:44:33,660
- And then the amendment.

3053
04:44:33,660 --> 04:44:38,660
Okay, so now we're
calling the vote on the...

3054
04:44:39,690 --> 04:44:42,513
We've already got the
motion and the second for,

3055
04:44:42,513 --> 04:44:44,190
is that right, Mr. Clerk? Yes, we do.

3056
04:44:44,190 --> 04:44:46,830
For 9.9, the new official
plan recommendation,

3057
04:44:46,830 --> 04:44:48,900
first time in 33 years,

3058
04:44:48,900 --> 04:44:52,830
that it's the amended official
plan moved and seconded.

3059
04:44:52,830 --> 04:44:55,680
We're now going to call the
vote all those in favor.

3060
04:44:55,680 --> 04:44:58,320
Okay, that is unanimous.
Thank you. First time.

3061
04:44:58,320 --> 04:45:00,959
Might not see that again, councillors.

3062
04:45:00,959 --> 04:45:02,450
(council member speaking faintly)

3063
04:45:02,450 --> 04:45:03,283
Yeah. Oh yeah.

3064
04:45:03,283 --> 04:45:05,053
Now, Councillor Nieuwesteeg?

3065
04:45:06,150 --> 04:45:10,620
You'd like to introduce an
auxiliary motion to this.

3066
04:45:10,620 --> 04:45:12,810
Do you want to help her
word it, wordsmith it?

3067
04:45:12,810 --> 04:45:14,190
- Yeah, I'm just looking at the clerk

3068
04:45:14,190 --> 04:45:15,300
because it wasn't on the agenda.

3069
04:45:15,300 --> 04:45:17,880
We'd have to waive the
rules of procedural order

3070
04:45:17,880 --> 04:45:22,880
and then the council would
pass a motion to direct staff

3071
04:45:22,980 --> 04:45:25,830
to start the comprehensive.

3072
04:45:25,830 --> 04:45:28,080
I'm going to because I can't
use the term secondary plan.

3073
04:45:28,080 --> 04:45:29,230
I have to use the term.

3074
04:45:30,420 --> 04:45:31,980
- [Kira] Comprehensive development plan.

3075
04:45:31,980 --> 04:45:33,813
- Comprehensive development plan.

3076
04:45:34,920 --> 04:45:38,193
And direct budget resources to this year.

3077
04:45:40,163 --> 04:45:41,220
- [Ruth-Ann] Yes, that's
the motion I wanted.

3078
04:45:41,220 --> 04:45:42,660
- Comprehensive development plan?

3079
04:45:42,660 --> 04:45:45,333
- [Ruth-Ann] Yes. Comprehensive. CDP.

3080
04:45:45,333 --> 04:45:48,150
And waive (speaks faintly)

3081
04:45:48,150 --> 04:45:49,173
- Procedural by-law.

3082
04:45:51,000 --> 04:45:53,310
Okay. Seconded by Councillor Strange.

3083
04:45:53,310 --> 04:45:56,452
Councillor, I know Pietrangelo has a,

3084
04:45:56,452 --> 04:45:58,950
you want to declare a
conflict because, yep.

3085
04:45:58,950 --> 04:46:00,570
- Yeah, Your Worship, I'm
going to have a conflict

3086
04:46:00,570 --> 04:46:03,810
on this one as myself
and my family own land

3087
04:46:03,810 --> 04:46:05,190
that will be affected.

3088
04:46:05,190 --> 04:46:06,090
- Okay. Thank you.

3089
04:46:06,090 --> 04:46:08,173
- I'm just going to write
this out and then I'll leave.

3090
04:46:08,173 --> 04:46:11,160
- Yes. Okay. We'll give
you a second. Pardon me?

3091
04:46:11,160 --> 04:46:13,590
- I lost track (speaks faintly)

3092
04:46:13,590 --> 04:46:15,467
- So, oh, you missed the presentation.

3093
04:46:15,467 --> 04:46:17,341
We had the consultants do a presentation-

3094
04:46:17,341 --> 04:46:19,380
- That's why I left because
of the hospital area.

3095
04:46:19,380 --> 04:46:21,270
That's what my spouses employment is

3096
04:46:21,270 --> 04:46:23,190
and they're the ones in the letter.

3097
04:46:23,190 --> 04:46:24,023
- Okay, well then-

3098
04:46:24,023 --> 04:46:24,856
- That's why I left.

3099
04:46:24,856 --> 04:46:25,884
- Okay, so are you-

3100
04:46:25,884 --> 04:46:27,074
- Should I go out again?

3101
04:46:27,074 --> 04:46:28,587
- Well, maybe.

3102
04:46:28,587 --> 04:46:32,040
The property, it's in that
general area. I don't know.

3103
04:46:32,040 --> 04:46:33,690
- It's right on the
(indistinct) in that area.

3104
04:46:33,690 --> 04:46:34,523
- Yes.

3105
04:46:34,523 --> 04:46:35,957
- It'll be affected by this zoning.

3106
04:46:35,957 --> 04:46:39,090
- Okay, so you're going
to do a conflict as well,

3107
04:46:39,090 --> 04:46:40,210
Councillor Patel?

3108
04:46:40,210 --> 04:46:42,173
- I don't think Es Fox is part of this.

3109
04:46:42,173 --> 04:46:43,066
- ES Fox? No?

3110
04:46:43,066 --> 04:46:44,520
- [Victor] Yeah. I don't think so.

3111
04:46:44,520 --> 04:46:46,740
- [Council Member] Pretty sure
it's North of Biggar, right?

3112
04:46:46,740 --> 04:46:47,700
- [Ruth-Ann] Yeah, it is.

3113
04:46:47,700 --> 04:46:49,140
- [CounciL Member] This
would be South of Biggar

3114
04:46:49,140 --> 04:46:51,840
- Okay.
- I'll be in the...

3115
04:46:51,840 --> 04:46:53,220
Just Let me know when you're done.

3116
04:46:53,220 --> 04:46:54,630
- No, actually, we're
going to come join you.

3117
04:46:54,630 --> 04:46:56,350
So we don't have to. Yeah.

3118
04:46:56,350 --> 04:46:58,770
Okay, we'll wait till he
leaves so he's not listening.

3119
04:46:58,770 --> 04:47:00,630
Secret stuff.

3120
04:47:00,630 --> 04:47:05,520
All right, so you heard
the motion and seconded.

3121
04:47:05,520 --> 04:47:08,040
Any discussion to the motion?

3122
04:47:08,040 --> 04:47:11,250
Okay. Seeing none, all those in favor?

3123
04:47:11,250 --> 04:47:13,050
Okay. That's unanimous.

3124
04:47:13,050 --> 04:47:14,250
Thank you for that.

3125
04:47:14,250 --> 04:47:15,240
So ladies and gentlemen,

3126
04:47:15,240 --> 04:47:18,870
we're now going to take a 15 minute recess

3127
04:47:18,870 --> 04:47:20,340
and we'll come back and commence

3128
04:47:20,340 --> 04:47:22,650
the planning matters on the agenda.

3129
04:47:22,650 --> 04:47:23,483
Thank you.

3130
05:31:24,503 --> 05:31:27,210
- [Assistant] Part three.

3131
05:31:27,210 --> 05:31:29,070
- Okay, we're back at our council meeting.

3132
05:31:29,070 --> 05:31:30,480
The mayor will be back shortly.

3133
05:31:30,480 --> 05:31:33,150
He had some things that he had
to take care of back there.

3134
05:31:33,150 --> 05:31:35,160
We're going to move on
with the consent agenda

3135
05:31:35,160 --> 05:31:37,980
in one second, but before we do that,

3136
05:31:37,980 --> 05:31:40,740
I just wanted to say we've been
having some computer issues

3137
05:31:40,740 --> 05:31:42,510
at City Hall all day.

3138
05:31:42,510 --> 05:31:43,620
There's certain ones of us

3139
05:31:43,620 --> 05:31:46,110
that just can't get onto our agenda app.

3140
05:31:46,110 --> 05:31:48,720
And I'm wondering Ms. Dolch,

3141
05:31:48,720 --> 05:31:51,660
I know that there was an issue
with the one planning item

3142
05:31:51,660 --> 05:31:55,323
as well, if you just want to
I guess let the public know,

3143
05:31:56,808 --> 05:31:58,290
you know, what happened.

3144
05:31:58,290 --> 05:32:00,510
- Thank you, your acting worship.

3145
05:32:00,510 --> 05:32:05,510
So earlier today we were kind
of notified that the item

3146
05:32:05,910 --> 05:32:07,050
sorry, and I don't have the number,

3147
05:32:07,050 --> 05:32:12,050
but Grassy Brook
secondary plan item was...

3148
05:32:12,390 --> 05:32:17,390
The report itself wasn't
able to be opened publicly.

3149
05:32:18,000 --> 05:32:20,370
It just went to a sign-in page.

3150
05:32:20,370 --> 05:32:24,240
So we found that out before
the regular start of council.

3151
05:32:24,240 --> 05:32:27,240
So we have concerns that the public

3152
05:32:27,240 --> 05:32:28,740
wasn't able to see that report.

3153
05:32:28,740 --> 05:32:30,390
The presentation,
everything else was there,

3154
05:32:30,390 --> 05:32:33,000
but the report wasn't there
with the recommendations.

3155
05:32:33,000 --> 05:32:37,410
I do understand it is live
now and able to be accessed

3156
05:32:37,410 --> 05:32:38,550
but that's what happened.

3157
05:32:38,550 --> 05:32:41,643
We just there was some
error in the system.

3158
05:32:42,596 --> 05:32:45,390
- Okay, so instead of like
going through the process now,

3159
05:32:45,390 --> 05:32:48,270
because I'm sure that we're
going to have questions

3160
05:32:48,270 --> 05:32:49,920
because people couldn't access it

3161
05:32:51,705 --> 05:32:54,257
the staff support a deferral of it?

3162
05:32:54,257 --> 05:32:55,560
- Thank you, acting Worship.

3163
05:32:55,560 --> 05:32:58,500
Yes, obviously we will
have to re-advertise

3164
05:32:58,500 --> 05:33:01,800
for a public meeting
and do all those things.

3165
05:33:01,800 --> 05:33:05,130
But that will give people a
little more time next time

3166
05:33:05,130 --> 05:33:08,356
to read the reports and be prepared.

3167
05:33:08,356 --> 05:33:10,680
- Okay. Sounds good. Councillor Lococo?

3168
05:33:10,680 --> 05:33:11,670
- Thank you, Acting Chair.

3169
05:33:11,670 --> 05:33:16,593
I propose that we defer 8.4 the
Grassy Brook secondary plan.

3170
05:33:17,700 --> 05:33:19,650
- Okay, thanks. So I have
a motion for deferral

3171
05:33:19,650 --> 05:33:22,770
made by Councillor Lococo,
seconded by Councillor Dabrowski.

3172
05:33:22,770 --> 05:33:25,380
I'll call that vote, all those in favor.

3173
05:33:25,380 --> 05:33:30,120
And that's carried unanimously.
So 8.4 has been deferred.

3174
05:33:30,120 --> 05:33:33,930
So anyone that's here for the
Grassy Brook secondary plan,

3175
05:33:33,930 --> 05:33:34,920
that has been deferred.

3176
05:33:34,920 --> 05:33:37,680
We had some computer issues.
It never went up live.

3177
05:33:37,680 --> 05:33:39,780
So we just don't want
to keep you here all day

3178
05:33:39,780 --> 05:33:42,630
and thinking that you're
going to be able to comment

3179
05:33:42,630 --> 05:33:44,283
on the secondary plan.

3180
05:33:45,120 --> 05:33:47,700
It'll be moved to council's next agenda,

3181
05:33:47,700 --> 05:33:51,030
which will be back when
the new council comes.

3182
05:33:51,030 --> 05:33:52,253
Leslie, did you have
something to ask? Sure. Yeah.

3183
05:33:54,652 --> 05:33:56,070
- [Leslie] Does that include by-laws?

3184
05:33:56,070 --> 05:33:58,051
- It does. Yes. Absolutely.

3185
05:33:58,051 --> 05:34:01,497
(Leslie speaking faintly)

3186
05:34:01,497 --> 05:34:04,860
Absolutely. Yes. Okay. So
that item been deferred.

3187
05:34:04,860 --> 05:34:07,140
I'll get the mayor to announce
that again at three o'clock

3188
05:34:07,140 --> 05:34:09,480
in case there's anyone
that comes in the room

3189
05:34:09,480 --> 05:34:11,010
and is here for that item.

3190
05:34:11,010 --> 05:34:13,350
So moving on then, we'll
go to the consent agenda,

3191
05:34:13,350 --> 05:34:15,270
which is item number 10.

3192
05:34:15,270 --> 05:34:19,172
I'll start with things to pull.
Anyone have things to pull?

3193
05:34:19,172 --> 05:34:20,580
Councillor Lococo.

3194
05:34:20,580 --> 05:34:21,420
- Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3195
05:34:21,420 --> 05:34:24,660
I'd like to pull 10.1,
the fireworks by-law.

3196
05:34:24,660 --> 05:34:25,953
- Okay. Go ahead.

3197
05:34:27,960 --> 05:34:30,420
- I understand where we
want to go about the amps,

3198
05:34:30,420 --> 05:34:33,870
but after reading the by-law
and having a lot of complaints

3199
05:34:33,870 --> 05:34:36,300
about the length of some of the holidays,

3200
05:34:36,300 --> 05:34:38,490
if it's three days before the day of,

3201
05:34:38,490 --> 05:34:40,710
and then three days
after, it's really a week

3202
05:34:40,710 --> 05:34:43,770
that somebody could be
releasing fireworks.

3203
05:34:43,770 --> 05:34:45,420
So I wanted to put it out to council

3204
05:34:45,420 --> 05:34:47,520
to see if we could have that discussion

3205
05:34:47,520 --> 05:34:48,900
about maybe altering it.

3206
05:34:48,900 --> 05:34:51,060
Does it really need to be that long?

3207
05:34:51,060 --> 05:34:56,060
And the other one was I had
a question from residents

3208
05:34:56,580 --> 05:35:00,870
about people that are renting VRUs.

3209
05:35:00,870 --> 05:35:05,310
Are they allowed to put the fireworks off?

3210
05:35:05,310 --> 05:35:08,250
When I did contact the
fire department before,

3211
05:35:08,250 --> 05:35:10,770
in the by-law, it says
that you need permission

3212
05:35:10,770 --> 05:35:13,350
from the owner, but if you're a VRU,

3213
05:35:13,350 --> 05:35:14,610
how are you getting permission?

3214
05:35:14,610 --> 05:35:17,130
So there's a lot of people complaining

3215
05:35:17,130 --> 05:35:20,970
in the VRU areas that
fireworks are being dispersed

3216
05:35:20,970 --> 05:35:22,710
in the middle of the night.

3217
05:35:22,710 --> 05:35:24,660
So those were the two things

3218
05:35:24,660 --> 05:35:26,010
that I wanted to talk about.

3219
05:35:26,010 --> 05:35:28,020
- Okay, let's see if we can
get some answers for you.

3220
05:35:28,020 --> 05:35:30,360
So maybe I can bring this to staff.

3221
05:35:30,360 --> 05:35:33,120
So looking to comment
on the number of days

3222
05:35:33,120 --> 05:35:35,850
that fireworks are allowed to be lit,

3223
05:35:35,850 --> 05:35:39,030
and then whether or not VRU occupants

3224
05:35:39,030 --> 05:35:41,640
are allowed to participate as well.

3225
05:35:41,640 --> 05:35:43,860
- I'll start and I'll rely on staff.

3226
05:35:43,860 --> 05:35:45,720
So the number of days
has always been an issue.

3227
05:35:45,720 --> 05:35:48,723
If Canada Day or whatever falls midweek,

3228
05:35:50,580 --> 05:35:54,130
this council's always allowed
for weekend celebrations

3229
05:35:55,684 --> 05:35:58,350
of those holidays.

3230
05:35:58,350 --> 05:36:02,400
So it's not intended to have
fireworks go off every day.

3231
05:36:02,400 --> 05:36:03,780
It's just if it falls on a Thursday,

3232
05:36:03,780 --> 05:36:07,050
you may want to have a
celebration on the Saturday.

3233
05:36:07,050 --> 05:36:09,360
Or if it falls on the Monday,
you might want to do it,

3234
05:36:09,360 --> 05:36:13,080
you know, before the kids are
are back to camp or whatever.

3235
05:36:13,080 --> 05:36:15,360
So that has always been
there. That is not new.

3236
05:36:15,360 --> 05:36:17,940
That has always been there.

3237
05:36:17,940 --> 05:36:22,940
With regards to I don't want
to make it just a VRU issue.

3238
05:36:23,130 --> 05:36:24,360
There's generally safety concerns

3239
05:36:24,360 --> 05:36:27,030
if you're lighting off fireworks
in any residential area.

3240
05:36:27,030 --> 05:36:29,520
And I'll have the fire
chief make comment on that.

3241
05:36:29,520 --> 05:36:33,540
I'm not sure backyard fireworks
is generally you know,

3242
05:36:33,540 --> 05:36:35,460
there's a whole bunch of
safety parameters on that.

3243
05:36:35,460 --> 05:36:37,680
So I wouldn't just tag it to VRUs.

3244
05:36:37,680 --> 05:36:40,170
It would be any residential area.

3245
05:36:40,170 --> 05:36:43,260
You'd have to be very careful
as far as the safe discharge

3246
05:36:43,260 --> 05:36:44,100
of a firework.

3247
05:36:44,100 --> 05:36:46,770
And I will, Mr. Gallagher's not here,

3248
05:36:46,770 --> 05:36:50,640
but I'll see if Deputy Chief
has any comment on fireworks

3249
05:36:50,640 --> 05:36:51,960
in residential areas.

3250
05:36:51,960 --> 05:36:53,103
- Sure. Mr. Lawson?

3251
05:36:55,290 --> 05:36:58,170
- Through the acting mayor to council.

3252
05:36:58,170 --> 05:37:00,210
I agree totally with the CAO.

3253
05:37:00,210 --> 05:37:01,800
It's not something that we want to see.

3254
05:37:01,800 --> 05:37:05,880
I mean, we do encourage residents to.

3255
05:37:05,880 --> 05:37:09,300
I mean, there's fireworks
that the city puts on

3256
05:37:09,300 --> 05:37:12,360
and it's a great viewing
area for that venue

3257
05:37:12,360 --> 05:37:16,440
so that we really push people
to those professional displays

3258
05:37:16,440 --> 05:37:18,360
rather than doing them in your home.

3259
05:37:18,360 --> 05:37:23,360
95% of our complaints do come
from people lighting it off

3260
05:37:23,460 --> 05:37:25,920
and hitting their neighbor's
roofs or those kind of things.

3261
05:37:25,920 --> 05:37:29,580
So we do push you away.

3262
05:37:29,580 --> 05:37:33,000
With that, I know by-law
and fire prevention

3263
05:37:33,000 --> 05:37:34,920
are going to be a little
bit more aggressive

3264
05:37:34,920 --> 05:37:39,090
with their public education
campaigns going forward

3265
05:37:39,090 --> 05:37:42,483
before and any major holidays.

3266
05:37:43,920 --> 05:37:45,330
- Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3267
05:37:45,330 --> 05:37:48,960
I wasn't really bringing it
up as a residential issue.

3268
05:37:48,960 --> 05:37:52,290
I was bringing up it as an
issue that you need permission

3269
05:37:52,290 --> 05:37:53,160
from the owner.

3270
05:37:53,160 --> 05:37:56,070
That was the question
that came to me from VRUs

3271
05:37:56,070 --> 05:37:58,080
setting them off, that
you need the permission.

3272
05:37:58,080 --> 05:37:58,950
So the question was,

3273
05:37:58,950 --> 05:38:02,700
are VRU guests allowed
to have the fireworks?

3274
05:38:02,700 --> 05:38:05,767
And I know the CAO just
talked about the midweek

3275
05:38:05,767 --> 05:38:07,980
and the number of days
have always been in there,

3276
05:38:07,980 --> 05:38:09,570
and that's why I'm bringing it up.

3277
05:38:09,570 --> 05:38:10,470
Do we really want it?

3278
05:38:10,470 --> 05:38:12,780
And the one thing I did forget,

3279
05:38:12,780 --> 05:38:15,630
when we give AMPS to somebody
who doesn't cut their grass,

3280
05:38:15,630 --> 05:38:17,910
that's their grass, you know
where the registered owner is.

3281
05:38:17,910 --> 05:38:20,100
If somebody parks, you
can give them an AMP.

3282
05:38:20,100 --> 05:38:21,720
If someone lights off fireworks

3283
05:38:21,720 --> 05:38:23,430
and there's four of us standing there,

3284
05:38:23,430 --> 05:38:25,620
how do you know who to charge?

3285
05:38:25,620 --> 05:38:27,570
Because it's very different
if you're parking,

3286
05:38:27,570 --> 05:38:28,980
if you're not cutting your grass,

3287
05:38:28,980 --> 05:38:31,200
you know exactly who to charge.

3288
05:38:31,200 --> 05:38:32,430
But if there's a group of people,

3289
05:38:32,430 --> 05:38:35,008
how do you figure out who to charge?

3290
05:38:35,008 --> 05:38:36,323
- [Acting Mayor] See if
we can get some answers.

3291
05:38:39,060 --> 05:38:42,990
- Yeah, you're almost never
there when a firework's off.

3292
05:38:42,990 --> 05:38:46,257
It's usually video evidence and
other evidence that's there,

3293
05:38:46,257 --> 05:38:49,983
and that's how they would
pursue who is doing it.

3294
05:38:50,970 --> 05:38:54,810
You know, if it happens to
be that they are present

3295
05:38:54,810 --> 05:38:57,540
to see the firework, well
then they'll use their own

3296
05:38:57,540 --> 05:38:59,970
visual evidence to charge.

3297
05:38:59,970 --> 05:39:04,320
But in most cases the complaint happens.

3298
05:39:04,320 --> 05:39:05,550
We dispatch by-law,

3299
05:39:05,550 --> 05:39:07,500
but the fireworks are already
been fully discharged,

3300
05:39:07,500 --> 05:39:10,860
so we're relying on other
evidence from that witness,

3301
05:39:10,860 --> 05:39:13,140
you know, witness statements.

3302
05:39:13,140 --> 05:39:16,170
Everyone's got Ring
cameras and cell phones,

3303
05:39:16,170 --> 05:39:17,460
recording devices.

3304
05:39:17,460 --> 05:39:19,500
So that's, you know,
generally the evidence

3305
05:39:19,500 --> 05:39:20,640
that gets presented.

3306
05:39:20,640 --> 05:39:22,830
And sorry, on the...

3307
05:39:22,830 --> 05:39:23,940
Sorry if I didn't answer your question.

3308
05:39:23,940 --> 05:39:27,120
I was looking at VRUs just
as they tend to be homes

3309
05:39:27,120 --> 05:39:28,710
and that kind of stuff and backyards,

3310
05:39:28,710 --> 05:39:30,900
that's where they're firing them off.

3311
05:39:30,900 --> 05:39:33,960
Again, it goes to, this
isn't against the owner,

3312
05:39:33,960 --> 05:39:36,000
it's the person who
discharges the firework.

3313
05:39:36,000 --> 05:39:37,830
So if they discharge in an unsafe manner,

3314
05:39:37,830 --> 05:39:42,180
then that's the person
who will get targeted.

3315
05:39:42,180 --> 05:39:45,960
So yes, they can get
permission from the owner.

3316
05:39:45,960 --> 05:39:48,000
If they choose not to get
permission from the owner.

3317
05:39:48,000 --> 05:39:49,650
Well, then that would
be an automatic charge

3318
05:39:49,650 --> 05:39:50,483
at that point in time.

3319
05:39:50,483 --> 05:39:53,400
If they're lighting off on a
property that's not theirs,

3320
05:39:53,400 --> 05:39:54,840
then that would be the automatic charge.

3321
05:39:54,840 --> 05:39:57,540
There's no more evidence
required at that point in time.

3322
05:39:57,540 --> 05:40:01,233
- And did you want to comment
again on the number of days?

3323
05:40:02,308 --> 05:40:04,661
I don't know if she was happy with the...

3324
05:40:04,661 --> 05:40:05,520
If it falls on a Wednesday,

3325
05:40:05,520 --> 05:40:07,560
then we allow it on the weekends.

3326
05:40:07,560 --> 05:40:08,940
- Yeah, the purpose of this report

3327
05:40:08,940 --> 05:40:10,800
was just to say we're
moving it to an AMPS,

3328
05:40:10,800 --> 05:40:12,900
not, we weren't questioning
the original by-law.

3329
05:40:12,900 --> 05:40:17,900
So if council wants to change
that, then I would you know,

3330
05:40:18,030 --> 05:40:19,710
I would suggest, you
know, that is something

3331
05:40:19,710 --> 05:40:22,860
that council should bring
as a review of that by-law.

3332
05:40:22,860 --> 05:40:25,770
This is really just allowing us to enforce

3333
05:40:25,770 --> 05:40:27,660
under the by-law that's existing.

3334
05:40:27,660 --> 05:40:30,450
- And I do like the idea of
moving it to AMPS as well.

3335
05:40:30,450 --> 05:40:33,813
So, and I think Ms. Punyarthi
wanted to comment as well.

3336
05:40:34,890 --> 05:40:37,200
- Thank you. Through the
chair, just a quick comment.

3337
05:40:37,200 --> 05:40:40,110
Just because it has moved
to AMPS does not change

3338
05:40:40,110 --> 05:40:42,480
how the evidence is
collected and acted upon.

3339
05:40:42,480 --> 05:40:45,390
Whether it's POA or AMPS,
the standards for evidence

3340
05:40:45,390 --> 05:40:47,990
on the part of the by-law
officer is the exact same.

3341
05:40:49,860 --> 05:40:54,860
- Okay. Are there any other
questions in regards to 10.1?

3342
05:40:56,550 --> 05:40:59,700
Okay, if no one has any other
item on the consent agenda

3343
05:40:59,700 --> 05:41:02,430
to pull, then I'd look for
one motion to pass everything

3344
05:41:02,430 --> 05:41:04,012
that's on the consent agenda.

3345
05:41:04,012 --> 05:41:04,860
I have a motion by Councillor Kerrio,

3346
05:41:04,860 --> 05:41:06,540
seconded by Councillor Strange.

3347
05:41:06,540 --> 05:41:10,473
All those in favor? And that's
carried unanimously. Thanks.

3348
05:41:12,150 --> 05:41:15,963
Moving on to communications
and comments of the city clerk.

3349
05:41:17,670 --> 05:41:22,230
The recommendation is that
council approve item 11.1

3350
05:41:22,230 --> 05:41:27,060
through and including item 11.10.

3351
05:41:27,060 --> 05:41:29,223
Does anyone have any item to pull?

3352
05:41:30,330 --> 05:41:33,150
If not, then looking for
one motion to approve all.

3353
05:41:33,150 --> 05:41:34,650
I have a motion by Councillor Kerrio,

3354
05:41:34,650 --> 05:41:36,240
seconded by Councillor Nieuwesteeg.

3355
05:41:36,240 --> 05:41:38,760
I'll call that vote. All those in favor.

3356
05:41:38,760 --> 05:41:39,960
And I'll just read the items.

3357
05:41:39,960 --> 05:41:42,030
So the first one is a proclamation request

3358
05:41:42,030 --> 05:41:45,450
from GenWell Weekend.

3359
05:41:45,450 --> 05:41:48,257
It's a request to proclaim
the weekend of September 18th

3360
05:41:48,257 --> 05:41:52,230
to the 20th is GenWell
Weekend to raise awareness

3361
05:41:52,230 --> 05:41:55,200
for the importance of human
connection and social health.

3362
05:41:55,200 --> 05:41:58,500
The next one is a proclamation
request for Pitt Hopkins

3363
05:41:58,500 --> 05:42:00,630
Syndrome Awareness Day.

3364
05:42:00,630 --> 05:42:03,360
That's going to happen on September 18th.

3365
05:42:03,360 --> 05:42:07,020
The next one is a proclamation
request for World Sepsis Day.

3366
05:42:07,020 --> 05:42:10,500
That's going to happen on September 13th.

3367
05:42:10,500 --> 05:42:13,920
Moving on, a proclamation
and flag raising request

3368
05:42:13,920 --> 05:42:17,820
for National Polycystic Kidney Disease.

3369
05:42:17,820 --> 05:42:21,600
And that's going to
happen on September 4th.

3370
05:42:21,600 --> 05:42:25,140
We have a flag raising
request, Less We Forget Flag,

3371
05:42:25,140 --> 05:42:27,900
and that's going to be
for the Less We Forget

3372
05:42:27,900 --> 05:42:30,840
Veterans Poppy Flag during Veterans Week.

3373
05:42:30,840 --> 05:42:33,570
And that'll be from Friday, October 30th,

3374
05:42:33,570 --> 05:42:37,890
until Wednesday, November
11th, which is Remembrance Day.

3375
05:42:37,890 --> 05:42:39,420
We have a flag raising request

3376
05:42:39,420 --> 05:42:43,920
for the 35th anniversary of
Ukraine's Independence Day,

3377
05:42:43,920 --> 05:42:48,360
and that's going to be
next Friday August 21st,

3378
05:42:48,360 --> 05:42:51,780
or the following Monday on August 24th.

3379
05:42:51,780 --> 05:42:53,130
We have a proclamation request

3380
05:42:53,130 --> 05:42:55,140
for Arthritis Awareness Month,

3381
05:42:55,140 --> 05:42:58,110
and that's going to be for
the month of September.

3382
05:42:58,110 --> 05:43:00,000
We also have a proclamation request

3383
05:43:00,000 --> 05:43:01,530
and lighting of City Hall

3384
05:43:01,530 --> 05:43:04,860
for Fetal Alcohol Spectrum
Disorder Awareness Month and Day.

3385
05:43:04,860 --> 05:43:07,620
And that's going to
take place in September.

3386
05:43:07,620 --> 05:43:09,780
We have a noise by-law exemption

3387
05:43:09,780 --> 05:43:13,050
for Niagara Falls Food
Park, the night market.

3388
05:43:13,050 --> 05:43:16,140
And that's going to give an
exemption for the noise by-law

3389
05:43:16,140 --> 05:43:20,460
until 11:00 PM from September
4th to September 6th.

3390
05:43:20,460 --> 05:43:23,130
And the last one is a
noise exemption by-law

3391
05:43:23,130 --> 05:43:24,333
for Taste of Manila.

3392
05:43:25,260 --> 05:43:30,150
That's going to happen
on Friday, August 28th

3393
05:43:30,150 --> 05:43:32,460
to Sunday, August 30th.

3394
05:43:32,460 --> 05:43:35,910
And that's all the communications
from the city clerk.

3395
05:43:35,910 --> 05:43:37,533
Moving on then, number 12.

3396
05:43:38,490 --> 05:43:40,470
More communications,
comments of the city clerk.

3397
05:43:40,470 --> 05:43:42,423
These ones are to receive for file.

3398
05:43:43,440 --> 05:43:45,360
Sorry, to receive and file.

3399
05:43:45,360 --> 05:43:48,420
So I'll ask first if
anyone has any to pull.

3400
05:43:48,420 --> 05:43:51,570
Seeing none, I'll take a
motion to receive all of them

3401
05:43:51,570 --> 05:43:52,403
for information.

3402
05:43:52,403 --> 05:43:53,880
I have a motion by Councillor Dabrowski,

3403
05:43:53,880 --> 05:43:55,800
seconded by Councillor Baldinelli.

3404
05:43:55,800 --> 05:43:58,350
I'll call that vote, all those in favor.

3405
05:43:58,350 --> 05:44:00,360
And thank you very much.

3406
05:44:00,360 --> 05:44:04,710
So moving on, we have the
ratification of in camera.

3407
05:44:04,710 --> 05:44:05,853
We're on number 14.

3408
05:44:07,650 --> 05:44:12,150
- Thanks, acting worship.
Just one more item, number 13.

3409
05:44:12,150 --> 05:44:15,240
There are a few more
specific communications

3410
05:44:15,240 --> 05:44:17,190
of the city clerk.

3411
05:44:17,190 --> 05:44:21,120
And they each have their own
specific recommendations.

3412
05:44:21,120 --> 05:44:23,460
The first one being a
request for food truck

3413
05:44:23,460 --> 05:44:25,530
at the 2026 Men's and Women's Canadian

3414
05:44:25,530 --> 05:44:27,090
Slo-Pitch Championship.

3415
05:44:27,090 --> 05:44:31,920
This request came in after
our last council meeting.

3416
05:44:31,920 --> 05:44:35,880
And obviously you see the date
there was August 8th to 15th.

3417
05:44:35,880 --> 05:44:39,720
Staff have made sure that
the rest of the requirements

3418
05:44:39,720 --> 05:44:43,230
for obtaining the license for
that food truck were obtained.

3419
05:44:43,230 --> 05:44:46,200
This was merely to get
approval from city council

3420
05:44:46,200 --> 05:44:48,330
to allow it on city property.

3421
05:44:48,330 --> 05:44:52,230
So to just kind of go
through the rubber stamping

3422
05:44:52,230 --> 05:44:55,290
we continue to ask that
council approve that request.

3423
05:44:55,290 --> 05:44:56,790
It's a yearly request that

3424
05:44:56,790 --> 05:45:01,200
they be located at Patrick
Cummings Sports Complex

3425
05:45:01,200 --> 05:45:03,090
for that tournament.

3426
05:45:03,090 --> 05:45:04,983
- Do you need a motion now?

3427
05:45:04,983 --> 05:45:06,150
- Yeah, we'll ask for that motion.

3428
05:45:06,150 --> 05:45:08,130
- Okay, so I have a motion
made by Councillor Kerrio,

3429
05:45:08,130 --> 05:45:12,000
seconded by Councillor Strange
to support the request.

3430
05:45:12,000 --> 05:45:13,830
If there aren't any
questions, I'll call the vote.

3431
05:45:13,830 --> 05:45:16,380
All those in favor. And
that's carried unanimously.

3432
05:45:18,930 --> 05:45:23,130
- Next is 13.2. It's
special occasion permit.

3433
05:45:23,130 --> 05:45:25,320
You can see there it's
the Federal Family Farm.

3434
05:45:25,320 --> 05:45:29,037
They've got a number of events
taking place on August 29th,

3435
05:45:29,037 --> 05:45:32,360
and then others in September
listed there, September 5th,

3436
05:45:32,360 --> 05:45:34,110
12th, 19th, and 26th.

3437
05:45:35,010 --> 05:45:37,680
They've applied for a
special occasion permit

3438
05:45:37,680 --> 05:45:40,920
from the Alcohol and Gaming
Commission of Ontario, the AGCO.

3439
05:45:40,920 --> 05:45:44,100
And to assist them with their permit,

3440
05:45:44,100 --> 05:45:47,070
they just need the municipality
to declare those dates

3441
05:45:47,070 --> 05:45:49,953
and these events as being
municipally significant.

3442
05:45:51,510 --> 05:45:52,980
So we'll just ask for
a motion from council.

3443
05:45:52,980 --> 05:45:54,260
- Absolutely, I have a motion that's made

3444
05:45:54,260 --> 05:45:57,778
by Councillor Strange and
seconded by Councillor Lococo.

3445
05:45:57,778 --> 05:45:59,130
If they aren't any comments,
I'll call that vote.

3446
05:45:59,130 --> 05:46:01,953
All those in favor. And
that's carried unanimously.

3447
05:46:04,230 --> 05:46:05,190
- Two more items.

3448
05:46:05,190 --> 05:46:08,970
The next one being another
noise by-law exemption request.

3449
05:46:08,970 --> 05:46:10,200
This one just kind of came in late.

3450
05:46:10,200 --> 05:46:13,170
That's why it appears on
this portion of the agenda.

3451
05:46:13,170 --> 05:46:14,790
It's for the Niagara Falls Night of Art.

3452
05:46:14,790 --> 05:46:16,920
And the recommendation is
that council would approve

3453
05:46:16,920 --> 05:46:20,730
that noise by-law exemption
until essentially midnight

3454
05:46:20,730 --> 05:46:24,090
for the playing of music at
the Niagara Falls Night of Art

3455
05:46:24,090 --> 05:46:26,313
taking place on Thursday, September 17th.

3456
05:46:27,330 --> 05:46:29,753
- Okay. Just looking for a
motion to approve the request.

3457
05:46:29,753 --> 05:46:31,170
I have a motion made by
Councillor Baldinelli,

3458
05:46:31,170 --> 05:46:33,300
seconded by Councillor Dabrowski.

3459
05:46:33,300 --> 05:46:36,063
I'll call that vote. All
those in favor. Thank you.

3460
05:46:38,309 --> 05:46:39,142
And the last one.

3461
05:46:39,142 --> 05:46:42,129
- And then the last item
there this was previously on

3462
05:46:42,129 --> 05:46:45,840
a council agenda and this is
a Ontario Ombudsman report.

3463
05:46:45,840 --> 05:46:48,420
It had just been received and filed.

3464
05:46:48,420 --> 05:46:51,180
But the Ombudsman's office has pointed out

3465
05:46:51,180 --> 05:46:54,300
that they need a little bit
more direction from council

3466
05:46:54,300 --> 05:46:58,920
as to what the intent
of that resolution is.

3467
05:46:58,920 --> 05:47:00,900
So the recommendation there
would be, first of all,

3468
05:47:00,900 --> 05:47:04,050
that council would approve
the motion for reconsideration

3469
05:47:04,050 --> 05:47:05,820
since we've already received that

3470
05:47:05,820 --> 05:47:07,650
for information previously.

3471
05:47:07,650 --> 05:47:08,940
And then also just to receive

3472
05:47:08,940 --> 05:47:13,050
that attached ombudsman's
report on the investigation

3473
05:47:13,050 --> 05:47:15,210
that was already brought
forward previously,

3474
05:47:15,210 --> 05:47:18,240
and that council accept the
recommendations of that report

3475
05:47:18,240 --> 05:47:21,033
in order to meet the obligations
of the Municipal Act.

3476
05:47:22,260 --> 05:47:24,169
- So it's a motion to reconsider,

3477
05:47:24,169 --> 05:47:25,920
and then a motion to
accept the recommendations

3478
05:47:25,920 --> 05:47:27,120
from the ombudsman.

3479
05:47:27,120 --> 05:47:28,530
I have a motion by Councillor Strange,

3480
05:47:28,530 --> 05:47:30,540
seconded by Councillor Nieuwesteeg.

3481
05:47:30,540 --> 05:47:32,940
I'll call that vote. All those in favor.

3482
05:47:32,940 --> 05:47:35,040
And that's carried unanimously. Thank you.

3483
05:47:36,870 --> 05:47:38,750
Is there any in camera?

3484
05:47:38,750 --> 05:47:39,833
- Yes.
- Okay.

3485
05:47:46,890 --> 05:47:50,190
- Okay, so next item on the
agenda here is number 14,

3486
05:47:50,190 --> 05:47:52,350
the ratification of in camera.

3487
05:47:52,350 --> 05:47:55,230
Early this morning at 9:00 AM,
council passed a resolution

3488
05:47:55,230 --> 05:47:58,650
to go in camera to deal
with a number of topics.

3489
05:47:58,650 --> 05:48:03,650
Mostly the topics there
are to receive legal advice

3490
05:48:03,810 --> 05:48:08,130
and also for direction to staff.

3491
05:48:08,130 --> 05:48:11,070
There is one topic to ratify though,

3492
05:48:11,070 --> 05:48:13,740
and that is that council
approved the sale of the portions

3493
05:48:13,740 --> 05:48:17,640
of the former city laneway
located east of Magdalen Street

3494
05:48:17,640 --> 05:48:21,960
and west of Centre Street
under delegated authority

3495
05:48:21,960 --> 05:48:24,660
to staff to carry out those negotiations.

3496
05:48:24,660 --> 05:48:26,220
- Okay, so looking for a motion

3497
05:48:26,220 --> 05:48:29,040
to approve the recommendations
made previously of a motion

3498
05:48:29,040 --> 05:48:31,860
by Councillor Kerrio, seconded
by Councillor Strange.

3499
05:48:31,860 --> 05:48:34,350
I'll call that vote. All those in favor.

3500
05:48:34,350 --> 05:48:36,720
And that's carried unanimously. Thank you.

3501
05:48:36,720 --> 05:48:39,060
So moving on to number 15,

3502
05:48:39,060 --> 05:48:44,060
we have motions for consideration
or notice of motions.

3503
05:48:44,220 --> 05:48:47,730
Does anyone have any
motions for consideration?

3504
05:48:47,730 --> 05:48:50,400
Notice of motions? I know
it's the last meeting.

3505
05:48:50,400 --> 05:48:52,380
So your motion's not
actually going to get heard

3506
05:48:52,380 --> 05:48:54,930
until a long time away.

3507
05:48:54,930 --> 05:48:57,123
All right. Do we have new business?

3508
05:48:59,190 --> 05:49:00,140
Councillor Strange?

3509
05:49:02,760 --> 05:49:05,373
- Thank you. Acting chair. Acting mayor.

3510
05:49:06,840 --> 05:49:08,130
Yeah, I just wanted to bring up,

3511
05:49:08,130 --> 05:49:12,360
and I just because we, you
know, the city residents

3512
05:49:12,360 --> 05:49:14,700
and north end of Niagara Falls

3513
05:49:14,700 --> 05:49:18,090
especially really got
hit hard with rainfall.

3514
05:49:18,090 --> 05:49:20,130
And there's been a lot of residents

3515
05:49:20,130 --> 05:49:23,610
who were dealing with the
flooding, garbage issues.

3516
05:49:23,610 --> 05:49:27,396
And you realize walking the dog
the other day that you just.

3517
05:49:27,396 --> 05:49:30,180
Some of the stuff is, you
know, I saw kids' suitcases

3518
05:49:30,180 --> 05:49:32,910
and even children's books
and stuff getting soaked

3519
05:49:32,910 --> 05:49:35,160
and nothing you can do
because the mold issues

3520
05:49:35,160 --> 05:49:36,360
and stuff like that.

3521
05:49:36,360 --> 05:49:39,240
I'm just looking at our WRAP program

3522
05:49:39,240 --> 05:49:43,650
that we have to install sump
pumps and overflow valves

3523
05:49:43,650 --> 05:49:45,210
and stuff like that.

3524
05:49:45,210 --> 05:49:48,120
Do we know where we are as far as...

3525
05:49:48,120 --> 05:49:49,980
And maybe getting the
word out to residents

3526
05:49:49,980 --> 05:49:54,980
that they can get this
put into to their house.

3527
05:49:55,980 --> 05:49:59,220
I guess they you have to get a...

3528
05:49:59,220 --> 05:50:02,100
I don't know if it's a permit
or get inspected to do that.

3529
05:50:02,100 --> 05:50:04,500
But a way of that they can
get rid of this flooding

3530
05:50:04,500 --> 05:50:05,973
if ever happens again.

3531
05:50:07,320 --> 05:50:12,030
And what is our our top
up of it and how much.

3532
05:50:12,030 --> 05:50:14,163
I think it's $4,000, I believe.

3533
05:50:15,330 --> 05:50:16,800
But we do have James here

3534
05:50:16,800 --> 05:50:19,290
that can kind of assist us in that.

3535
05:50:19,290 --> 05:50:23,520
Just wondering if we do
need, in previous years,

3536
05:50:23,520 --> 05:50:27,540
did we use all the money that
we were topping up on it?

3537
05:50:27,540 --> 05:50:29,430
And if not this year,

3538
05:50:29,430 --> 05:50:32,310
and we do have a lot of
people maybe signed up

3539
05:50:32,310 --> 05:50:35,110
that maybe we can top up
through reserves if we have to.

3540
05:50:36,480 --> 05:50:38,663
- [Victor] Sure. Mr. Sticca?

3541
05:50:38,663 --> 05:50:40,890
- Through you acting
mayor to the Councillor.

3542
05:50:40,890 --> 05:50:44,160
So the WRAP program is still
eligible. It's still active.

3543
05:50:44,160 --> 05:50:45,840
I can tell you that over the years,

3544
05:50:45,840 --> 05:50:47,990
it kind of ebbs and
flows in participation.

3545
05:50:48,840 --> 05:50:51,330
We likely will expect to
see some more applications

3546
05:50:51,330 --> 05:50:53,310
after the rain event that just took place

3547
05:50:53,310 --> 05:50:55,050
over the last couple weeks.

3548
05:50:55,050 --> 05:50:58,566
In terms of funding, I
don't. I can pull up.

3549
05:50:58,566 --> 05:51:00,093
It's about $4,000 still.

3550
05:51:01,110 --> 05:51:02,880
So $4,000 for the sump pump

3551
05:51:02,880 --> 05:51:04,920
and then $1,200 for the backwater valve.

3552
05:51:04,920 --> 05:51:07,980
All the information's
available on the city website.

3553
05:51:07,980 --> 05:51:09,510
Part of our investigations process

3554
05:51:09,510 --> 05:51:10,920
over the last couple weeks

3555
05:51:10,920 --> 05:51:12,900
and heading into the
next few weeks as well

3556
05:51:12,900 --> 05:51:14,160
is to look at properties.

3557
05:51:14,160 --> 05:51:15,390
Did they have backwater valves?

3558
05:51:15,390 --> 05:51:16,650
Didn't they have backwater valves?

3559
05:51:16,650 --> 05:51:18,660
We do have records of those.

3560
05:51:18,660 --> 05:51:21,660
There was a previous
version of this program

3561
05:51:21,660 --> 05:51:24,240
in the late '90s before my time here

3562
05:51:24,240 --> 05:51:26,070
that we don't have great records of.

3563
05:51:26,070 --> 05:51:28,200
But anything, you know,
in the last 20 years,

3564
05:51:28,200 --> 05:51:29,340
we have some pretty good records

3565
05:51:29,340 --> 05:51:33,450
on where those valves are what
properties have participated

3566
05:51:33,450 --> 05:51:34,383
in the past.

3567
05:51:35,880 --> 05:51:38,790
Like I said, with the ebbs
and flows in participation,

3568
05:51:38,790 --> 05:51:41,910
I expect we'll probably see us
hitting our budget this year.

3569
05:51:41,910 --> 05:51:44,010
So something the '27 will look at

3570
05:51:44,010 --> 05:51:47,550
depending on the participation
and who hasn't participated.

3571
05:51:47,550 --> 05:51:48,810
If it's something we need to top up

3572
05:51:48,810 --> 05:51:50,250
or we're just able to kind of maintain

3573
05:51:50,250 --> 05:51:51,630
our annual budget request.

3574
05:51:51,630 --> 05:51:53,262
- Yeah, and that's what I'm looking at,

3575
05:51:53,262 --> 05:51:54,840
because I know, you know,

3576
05:51:54,840 --> 05:51:57,180
we've never seen rain
like this ever before.

3577
05:51:57,180 --> 05:51:59,730
And I know a lot of
residents will probably,

3578
05:51:59,730 --> 05:52:03,600
if they don't know about
putting these sump pumps

3579
05:52:03,600 --> 05:52:05,910
or whatever and overflow valves,

3580
05:52:05,910 --> 05:52:07,500
is it possible to get the information out?

3581
05:52:07,500 --> 05:52:10,410
And then, you know I don't
know if that would be

3582
05:52:10,410 --> 05:52:12,510
to the new council or
maybe direction the staff

3583
05:52:12,510 --> 05:52:17,510
to have a look at it and find
out if we can top this up.

3584
05:52:17,670 --> 05:52:20,130
Because I know a lot of
people are in desperate need

3585
05:52:20,130 --> 05:52:21,810
of this getting that water out

3586
05:52:21,810 --> 05:52:23,880
and I already know that
they're talking about

3587
05:52:23,880 --> 05:52:25,710
some more storms coming in.

3588
05:52:25,710 --> 05:52:27,090
So I'm just thinking of different ways.

3589
05:52:27,090 --> 05:52:29,972
I don't know if we can
get input from our CAO

3590
05:52:29,972 --> 05:52:32,190
or anything to what we could do as a city

3591
05:52:32,190 --> 05:52:35,300
to help some of these
residents get these sump-pumps

3592
05:52:35,300 --> 05:52:37,260
in and get the water out of their basement

3593
05:52:37,260 --> 05:52:39,493
and coal cellars and whatever it may be.

3594
05:52:41,359 --> 05:52:43,380
- Well, the program's important
and it's effective as well.

3595
05:52:43,380 --> 05:52:45,750
- Exactly, so if we
can top it up this year

3596
05:52:45,750 --> 05:52:48,750
and if there's a need for it Mr. CAO.

3597
05:52:50,370 --> 05:52:55,230
- I'll just start and
Ms. Clark can augment it.

3598
05:52:55,230 --> 05:52:58,080
I would say also that, you know,

3599
05:52:58,080 --> 05:53:00,180
the city puts its money on the table.

3600
05:53:00,180 --> 05:53:02,370
Insurance companies are the
one exposed to these losses,

3601
05:53:02,370 --> 05:53:04,620
and the insurance company
should also be putting money

3602
05:53:04,620 --> 05:53:05,610
on the table to do this.

3603
05:53:05,610 --> 05:53:08,040
It shouldn't always fall to the taxpayer,

3604
05:53:08,040 --> 05:53:09,720
you know, to help out.

3605
05:53:09,720 --> 05:53:13,440
And I think, you know, that
is something that, you know,

3606
05:53:13,440 --> 05:53:15,030
that there should be some pressure

3607
05:53:15,030 --> 05:53:16,170
put on the insurance companies

3608
05:53:16,170 --> 05:53:19,080
to support residents in
converting that to avoid

3609
05:53:19,080 --> 05:53:24,080
ultimate losses you know, on
their books because again,

3610
05:53:24,240 --> 05:53:27,360
the city wouldn't incur any losses.

3611
05:53:27,360 --> 05:53:28,740
And then I'll pass it over to Ms. Clark

3612
05:53:28,740 --> 05:53:30,300
on where we are reserve-wise.

3613
05:53:30,300 --> 05:53:32,130
- Yeah, thank you, through the mayor.

3614
05:53:32,130 --> 05:53:35,730
So we do budget for the program
in the wastewater budget,

3615
05:53:35,730 --> 05:53:38,790
and we also hold a reserve
that's about 200,000 right now.

3616
05:53:38,790 --> 05:53:41,160
So even if we were going
to exceed the budget

3617
05:53:41,160 --> 05:53:43,200
in the wastewater budget,
we do allow that to happen

3618
05:53:43,200 --> 05:53:45,780
and we'll pull in the additional
money from the reserves.

3619
05:53:45,780 --> 05:53:47,250
So we're okay this year.

3620
05:53:47,250 --> 05:53:49,170
- So if we need some additional reserve,

3621
05:53:49,170 --> 05:53:50,160
we can go there?

3622
05:53:50,160 --> 05:53:51,300
- Yes, exactly.

3623
05:53:51,300 --> 05:53:52,980
And then in the future budgets,

3624
05:53:52,980 --> 05:53:54,210
if that reserve is getting low,

3625
05:53:54,210 --> 05:53:56,910
then we'll talk about increasing
a top up to that program.

3626
05:53:56,910 --> 05:53:58,170
Okay. But we're good right now.

3627
05:53:58,170 --> 05:53:59,193
- Okay. Thank you.

3628
05:54:01,140 --> 05:54:03,390
Does anyone else have
any other new business?

3629
05:54:03,390 --> 05:54:04,650
Councillor Baldinelli?

3630
05:54:04,650 --> 05:54:06,990
- Not new business,
just some old business.

3631
05:54:06,990 --> 05:54:10,620
I'd like to. Pardon?

3632
05:54:10,620 --> 05:54:12,660
- [Council Member] Councillor Belichick.

3633
05:54:12,660 --> 05:54:14,447
- Sorry, it was cold in here (laughs).

3634
05:54:15,660 --> 05:54:19,860
Just bringing up the
motion that we had made

3635
05:54:19,860 --> 05:54:24,860
for the MAT tax and Councillor
Nieuwesteeg's addition

3636
05:54:25,650 --> 05:54:27,180
or amendment to it.

3637
05:54:27,180 --> 05:54:29,130
To create the committee,
which I haven't...

3638
05:54:29,130 --> 05:54:30,720
I'm not going to know who's responsible

3639
05:54:30,720 --> 05:54:34,380
for ensuring that the
motion that was passed

3640
05:54:34,380 --> 05:54:37,020
has actually gone through completely.

3641
05:54:37,020 --> 05:54:37,980
That's number one.

3642
05:54:37,980 --> 05:54:40,590
And just to make sure that we understand

3643
05:54:40,590 --> 05:54:43,320
that the city's portion
of it is going to be used

3644
05:54:43,320 --> 05:54:45,720
and allowed to through
the committee to ensure

3645
05:54:45,720 --> 05:54:49,440
that services that support tourism,

3646
05:54:49,440 --> 05:54:54,440
roads, infrastructure, all
stated within the MAT tax by-law

3647
05:54:54,870 --> 05:54:59,280
will help offset the costs
incurred by the municipality

3648
05:54:59,280 --> 05:55:00,720
and all the taxpayers.

3649
05:55:00,720 --> 05:55:04,000
So I'd like to, you
know, for the allocation

3650
05:55:06,010 --> 05:55:07,320
to move forward.

3651
05:55:07,320 --> 05:55:09,090
The committee was never formed,

3652
05:55:09,090 --> 05:55:11,340
and I'm not sure how the money

3653
05:55:11,340 --> 05:55:13,620
besides us voting on different things

3654
05:55:13,620 --> 05:55:17,040
is going to be allotted and
pushed to the proper areas.

3655
05:55:17,040 --> 05:55:19,253
If somebody can answer
that for me. Thank you.

3656
05:55:22,020 --> 05:55:24,513
- Through the chair to the Councillor.

3657
05:55:26,280 --> 05:55:30,510
Almost all the allocations
have been approved by council

3658
05:55:30,510 --> 05:55:31,610
at this point in time.

3659
05:55:32,490 --> 05:55:36,210
Council gave Mr. Adames you know,

3660
05:55:36,210 --> 05:55:37,590
approximated to the end of the year

3661
05:55:37,590 --> 05:55:40,770
to come back with a
governance structure for that.

3662
05:55:40,770 --> 05:55:44,320
Staff are also working
on best practice review

3663
05:55:46,316 --> 05:55:48,900
of the structure for the governance of it,

3664
05:55:48,900 --> 05:55:51,250
looking at what other
municipalities are doing.

3665
05:55:52,350 --> 05:55:55,230
And so as far as what's been spent,

3666
05:55:55,230 --> 05:55:59,190
it's substantially been
all the items that council

3667
05:55:59,190 --> 05:56:00,750
had approved during the budget process

3668
05:56:00,750 --> 05:56:02,610
with the funding source of the mat.

3669
05:56:02,610 --> 05:56:04,440
Plus we had to pick up one contract

3670
05:56:04,440 --> 05:56:07,830
that was previously approved
by Niagara Falls Tourism

3671
05:56:07,830 --> 05:56:11,100
because we are going to be
the executor of that contract.

3672
05:56:11,100 --> 05:56:15,210
So those are really the only
items spent from the mats

3673
05:56:15,210 --> 05:56:16,287
at this point in time.

3674
05:56:16,287 --> 05:56:20,160
And we'll wait for the
report back from Mr. Adames.

3675
05:56:20,160 --> 05:56:23,370
Mr. Adames was given the
authority to set the budget

3676
05:56:23,370 --> 05:56:26,700
and do the approval for MAT expenditures.

3677
05:56:26,700 --> 05:56:30,300
So on the governance with
the recommended committee

3678
05:56:30,300 --> 05:56:33,550
from council, that will be part
of his report going forward

3679
05:56:34,860 --> 05:56:37,170
for it to set up the new
governance structure for that.

3680
05:56:37,170 --> 05:56:38,540
So we're not...

3681
05:56:41,040 --> 05:56:43,560
Most of the monetary spend was for.

3682
05:56:43,560 --> 05:56:46,445
I'm looking at Ms. Clark.

3683
05:56:46,445 --> 05:56:50,523
It was the rapid response
crews, the by-law and.

3684
05:56:52,560 --> 05:56:55,950
- [Tiffany] It's 550,000
combined for those two crews

3685
05:56:55,950 --> 05:56:56,783
that you talked about.

3686
05:56:56,783 --> 05:57:01,410
I think it's 80,000 by-law and
470 for the rapid response.

3687
05:57:01,410 --> 05:57:06,060
All the other budget areas of
MAT tax only come into play

3688
05:57:06,060 --> 05:57:08,100
if we've spent money on special events

3689
05:57:08,100 --> 05:57:11,760
or the other sport
tourism rebate, I think.

3690
05:57:11,760 --> 05:57:16,630
- Yeah, so as far as the
specific item with the committee

3691
05:57:17,880 --> 05:57:19,920
that was a direction of council

3692
05:57:19,920 --> 05:57:23,790
and it'd been fed to Mr.
Adames for him to come back

3693
05:57:23,790 --> 05:57:25,380
with the governance on the spending

3694
05:57:25,380 --> 05:57:28,130
on both the industry side
and on the city portion side.

3695
05:57:29,610 --> 05:57:32,763
- I'm a little confused
on that governance side.

3696
05:57:35,880 --> 05:57:39,150
The portions, obviously,
I went through the by-laws

3697
05:57:39,150 --> 05:57:43,680
and there's no specific
splitting of the money out.

3698
05:57:43,680 --> 05:57:46,480
Although one says one's going
to be more than the other.

3699
05:57:47,340 --> 05:57:49,410
Specifically, the city's part of it.

3700
05:57:49,410 --> 05:57:52,440
Like I though we'd be off
and running this spring

3701
05:57:52,440 --> 05:57:56,430
with beautification, many
areas of the tourist area

3702
05:57:56,430 --> 05:57:58,410
that wouldn't have cost
the taxpayers any money,

3703
05:57:58,410 --> 05:57:59,910
but that hasn't.

3704
05:57:59,910 --> 05:58:03,210
- Beautification, sorry, that
was $60,000 was approved by.

3705
05:58:03,210 --> 05:58:05,910
So whatever council approved
to spend on the mat,

3706
05:58:05,910 --> 05:58:08,730
that's been approved
and is being executed.

3707
05:58:08,730 --> 05:58:10,950
- I expected to have like a plan.

3708
05:58:10,950 --> 05:58:12,030
Let's go and let's do it

3709
05:58:12,030 --> 05:58:14,820
because we finally got
something to do it with.

3710
05:58:14,820 --> 05:58:15,963
And I haven't really.

3711
05:58:16,980 --> 05:58:18,980
The governance part of it, I'm not sure.

3712
05:58:20,130 --> 05:58:21,870
Was I misled or something?

3713
05:58:21,870 --> 05:58:26,100
The governance part that
David would be governance

3714
05:58:26,100 --> 05:58:29,934
over the entire MAT tax?

3715
05:58:29,934 --> 05:58:32,070
When that's part of the.

3716
05:58:32,070 --> 05:58:33,990
- Yeah, so sorry for the confusion.

3717
05:58:33,990 --> 05:58:35,490
Based upon what council had approved

3718
05:58:35,490 --> 05:58:38,850
and based upon the one
contract that we were required

3719
05:58:38,850 --> 05:58:41,040
to pick up we didn't really...

3720
05:58:41,040 --> 05:58:43,020
We were concerned that
that would have spent

3721
05:58:43,020 --> 05:58:44,580
our full allocation.

3722
05:58:44,580 --> 05:58:46,560
So we weren't looking at spending any more

3723
05:58:46,560 --> 05:58:48,903
additional money at that point in time.

3724
05:58:50,130 --> 05:58:51,960
And so that's why we've kind of,

3725
05:58:51,960 --> 05:58:54,360
from the city's portion, we've...

3726
05:58:54,360 --> 05:58:55,740
Whatever council approved it,

3727
05:58:55,740 --> 05:58:57,510
also I remember a few other things.

3728
05:58:57,510 --> 05:59:00,640
There was the fees for the lighting

3729
05:59:01,800 --> 05:59:03,540
that got moved on the budget.

3730
05:59:03,540 --> 05:59:05,820
So we just took whatever council approved,

3731
05:59:05,820 --> 05:59:07,650
and that's what we're
spending the money on.

3732
05:59:07,650 --> 05:59:09,210
We don't have a strategic plan.

3733
05:59:09,210 --> 05:59:11,610
That is part of the thing
that staff is working on,

3734
05:59:11,610 --> 05:59:16,260
is a strategic plan for
their portion of the plan.

3735
05:59:16,260 --> 05:59:19,980
The assignment that
council gave to Mr. Adames

3736
05:59:19,980 --> 05:59:23,790
was to develop a budget for
this year and next year,

3737
05:59:23,790 --> 05:59:26,700
and to develop governance recommendations

3738
05:59:26,700 --> 05:59:30,333
for council to review
over the MAT spending.

3739
05:59:32,190 --> 05:59:34,653
- I'm not sure council was aware

3740
05:59:34,653 --> 05:59:38,880
that that was actually happening
from that portion of it.

3741
05:59:38,880 --> 05:59:40,440
I though there was a POTS

3742
05:59:40,440 --> 05:59:43,380
and we would govern the city's portion.

3743
05:59:43,380 --> 05:59:46,607
A non-tourist profit tourist
entity would be governing

3744
05:59:46,607 --> 05:59:51,240
their portion, and David would
be governing their portion.

3745
05:59:51,240 --> 05:59:52,743
So we had a three-way split.

3746
05:59:53,987 --> 05:59:56,040
A 40, 30, 30, or whatever it would be.

3747
05:59:56,040 --> 05:59:59,430
There's no number set out and
there's absolutely no idea

3748
05:59:59,430 --> 06:00:02,460
how much money has
actually been brought in.

3749
06:00:02,460 --> 06:00:04,263
- There is no percentage on that.

3750
06:00:05,190 --> 06:00:07,020
The first priority bucket

3751
06:00:07,020 --> 06:00:09,720
was called the destination
priority bucket.

3752
06:00:09,720 --> 06:00:13,080
There has to be alignment
between the city and the industry

3753
06:00:13,080 --> 06:00:15,090
of what those priority bucket items are.

3754
06:00:15,090 --> 06:00:17,373
So that fits into the
overall strategic plan.

3755
06:00:18,720 --> 06:00:22,350
After that priority bucket is dealt with,

3756
06:00:22,350 --> 06:00:24,567
which should be aligned with
both the city's strategic plan

3757
06:00:24,567 --> 06:00:26,580
and the industry's strategic plan,

3758
06:00:26,580 --> 06:00:28,143
the two other buckets get split 50/50

3759
06:00:28,143 --> 06:00:30,060
with the remaining money.

3760
06:00:30,060 --> 06:00:34,053
That first bucket should be
greater than 50% or 50% or more.

3761
06:00:35,666 --> 06:00:37,170
And then it gets split between the two.

3762
06:00:37,170 --> 06:00:41,767
So it'd be, call it 25%
for each of the city

3763
06:00:42,867 --> 06:00:44,493
and the industry to spend.

3764
06:00:46,320 --> 06:00:50,220
As, you know, I think we've
allocated more than $500,000

3765
06:00:50,220 --> 06:00:53,010
in spending in our bucket
that council already approved.

3766
06:00:53,010 --> 06:00:55,170
I don't think we are
going to be that much more

3767
06:00:55,170 --> 06:00:59,460
than the $500,000, so we
weren't spending anything more

3768
06:00:59,460 --> 06:01:01,920
than what council already
approved to spend.

3769
06:01:01,920 --> 06:01:04,627
So we're spending the $500,000.

3770
06:01:05,670 --> 06:01:09,420
We moved from a dollar amount
to a percentage amount.

3771
06:01:09,420 --> 06:01:11,040
We're just now in the first few months

3772
06:01:11,040 --> 06:01:12,210
of the percentage amount.

3773
06:01:12,210 --> 06:01:15,720
And we get all our information
60 days after things happen

3774
06:01:15,720 --> 06:01:19,830
because they have to go
through the month of...

3775
06:01:19,830 --> 06:01:21,540
The month of June is reported to us

3776
06:01:21,540 --> 06:01:24,739
by the end of July, right?

3777
06:01:24,739 --> 06:01:28,572
- I just want to make sure
that City of Niagara Falls-

3778
06:01:28,572 --> 06:01:30,870
- I think Councillor Baldinelli
wants to see a report really

3779
06:01:30,870 --> 06:01:33,540
that's written to council,
whether it's a quarterly report

3780
06:01:33,540 --> 06:01:36,090
or whether, you know,
it's a bi-annual report,

3781
06:01:36,090 --> 06:01:36,923
whatever it is.

3782
06:01:36,923 --> 06:01:37,954
- I also want to understand it.

3783
06:01:37,954 --> 06:01:39,480
- Now, once we have
something in front of us,

3784
06:01:39,480 --> 06:01:41,040
then we can ask questions

3785
06:01:41,040 --> 06:01:43,290
and sort of tweak it to what we want.

3786
06:01:43,290 --> 06:01:44,670
- Yes, so at the end of the year,

3787
06:01:44,670 --> 06:01:46,803
we should have a strategic plan.

3788
06:01:48,180 --> 06:01:49,723
A strategic plan from the industry,

3789
06:01:49,723 --> 06:01:51,660
a strategic plan for the city,

3790
06:01:51,660 --> 06:01:54,870
a governance recommendation on
how to administer the dollars

3791
06:01:54,870 --> 06:01:58,170
so that they're administered
in an effective manner.

3792
06:01:58,170 --> 06:02:01,410
And an actual report on how
much money was collected

3793
06:02:01,410 --> 06:02:03,033
in the first year.

3794
06:02:04,200 --> 06:02:05,490
Under the new percentage.

3795
06:02:05,490 --> 06:02:06,810
- Okay, I understand that,

3796
06:02:06,810 --> 06:02:08,850
but I'm just saying in the by-law,

3797
06:02:08,850 --> 06:02:12,210
the portion of Niagara Falls,
City of Niagara Falls portion,

3798
06:02:12,210 --> 06:02:17,190
specifically to benefit the
residents of Niagara Falls.

3799
06:02:17,190 --> 06:02:20,433
It helps tourism, but
it benefits the city.

3800
06:02:21,450 --> 06:02:26,450
The residents and the
PAS, the sporting venues

3801
06:02:27,480 --> 06:02:29,520
anything that allocated towards tourism

3802
06:02:29,520 --> 06:02:32,730
would now not be paid
by the city residents,

3803
06:02:32,730 --> 06:02:35,820
which benefits their lifestyles,
which is in the by-law.

3804
06:02:35,820 --> 06:02:38,910
I just want to make sure that
we're focused on someone else

3805
06:02:38,910 --> 06:02:41,610
not telling the city council

3806
06:02:41,610 --> 06:02:44,970
how it'll be best
performed on the city side.

3807
06:02:44,970 --> 06:02:47,940
I mean, they'll have large
portion of the designated funds

3808
06:02:47,940 --> 06:02:51,630
for themselves to decide
on how to best promote

3809
06:02:51,630 --> 06:02:54,390
City of Niagara Falls
in two different pots.

3810
06:02:54,390 --> 06:02:56,910
But this portion of the
city in Niagara Falls

3811
06:02:56,910 --> 06:03:01,869
must be for the residents. Thank you.

3812
06:03:01,869 --> 06:03:04,620
- Okay. So staff will come back
with a report though. Okay.

3813
06:03:04,620 --> 06:03:05,670
All right, Councillor Dabrowski,

3814
06:03:05,670 --> 06:03:06,630
did you have something to add on that?

3815
06:03:06,630 --> 06:03:07,749
No? Okay. Yeah, go ahead.

3816
06:03:07,749 --> 06:03:10,353
(council member speaking faintly)

3817
06:03:10,353 --> 06:03:12,810
Well, yeah. I think he already
put a motion on the floor.

3818
06:03:12,810 --> 06:03:13,710
- Well, and that's the challenge.

3819
06:03:13,710 --> 06:03:15,210
- That council receive a report.

3820
06:03:15,210 --> 06:03:17,277
- I think the third time
you've got up and spoke to it,

3821
06:03:17,277 --> 06:03:19,410
and we still don't...

3822
06:03:19,410 --> 06:03:21,720
I'm surprised that we
don't have a document

3823
06:03:21,720 --> 06:03:23,190
that says here's what we brought in,

3824
06:03:23,190 --> 06:03:24,057
here's what we've spent on,

3825
06:03:24,057 --> 06:03:25,410
and here's what we're speaking on.

3826
06:03:25,410 --> 06:03:28,140
The CAO's talked about this, I
think three or four times now

3827
06:03:28,140 --> 06:03:29,490
over the past six months,

3828
06:03:29,490 --> 06:03:33,450
and we've still yet to see
something on paper that said,

3829
06:03:33,450 --> 06:03:34,320
here's what we brought in.

3830
06:03:34,320 --> 06:03:36,510
So I think a couple of simple questions

3831
06:03:36,510 --> 06:03:38,220
that Councillor Baldinelli asking,

3832
06:03:38,220 --> 06:03:39,330
how much have we brought in?

3833
06:03:39,330 --> 06:03:41,100
What have we spent it on? And what's left?

3834
06:03:41,100 --> 06:03:42,000
And we just want that.

3835
06:03:42,000 --> 06:03:44,610
It doesn't have to be
a fulsome staff report,

3836
06:03:44,610 --> 06:03:46,020
that's an 18 page document.

3837
06:03:46,020 --> 06:03:49,387
We're looking for a one page
quick cheat sheet that says,

3838
06:03:49,387 --> 06:03:51,509
"Here's what we brought
in, here's what we spent."

3839
06:03:51,509 --> 06:03:53,940
And we've heard it
three or four times now,

3840
06:03:53,940 --> 06:03:55,430
but we've yet to see an
email that's gone out

3841
06:03:55,430 --> 06:03:58,110
to council even, not even a
report that's outlined it.

3842
06:03:58,110 --> 06:04:00,600
So I think it's not even a fulsome report.

3843
06:04:00,600 --> 06:04:03,367
It's a simple email that could
go around to council saying,

3844
06:04:03,367 --> 06:04:06,000
"Here's what we've done so
far, but we've heard it."

3845
06:04:06,000 --> 06:04:09,069
- Staff will send an email
prior to the report coming out.

3846
06:04:09,069 --> 06:04:10,436
- [Jason] Yeah.

3847
06:04:10,436 --> 06:04:13,650
- Okay. All right. Councillor Kerrio.

3848
06:04:13,650 --> 06:04:16,230
- Just a quick comment,
Your Worship, on this topic.

3849
06:04:16,230 --> 06:04:18,840
I'm assuming that when that comes through,

3850
06:04:18,840 --> 06:04:22,770
you're also going to have a
report that tells the council

3851
06:04:22,770 --> 06:04:24,870
what you got out of the money you spent.

3852
06:04:24,870 --> 06:04:28,050
An analysis on, you know,
here's where we spent the money.

3853
06:04:28,050 --> 06:04:30,710
Here's what we got for it
to see if it was, you know,

3854
06:04:30,710 --> 06:04:32,640
if it makes sense to do it again.

3855
06:04:32,640 --> 06:04:35,730
So even if it's money that
we're not in control of,

3856
06:04:35,730 --> 06:04:39,960
I think it would be nice
for the staff to comment

3857
06:04:39,960 --> 06:04:42,300
to the council on what they think about

3858
06:04:42,300 --> 06:04:43,620
how the money was spent.

3859
06:04:43,620 --> 06:04:46,010
Considering that that's who's
going to be looking at it,

3860
06:04:46,010 --> 06:04:47,880
council and staff.

3861
06:04:47,880 --> 06:04:49,680
But I think that that's very important.

3862
06:04:49,680 --> 06:04:51,900
Not just to see where the money went,

3863
06:04:51,900 --> 06:04:53,790
but to see what the money got you.

3864
06:04:53,790 --> 06:04:55,800
As if you don't know
what the money got you,

3865
06:04:55,800 --> 06:04:57,120
you're going to fly blind.

3866
06:04:57,120 --> 06:05:00,090
So you need to know what
works and what doesn't work.

3867
06:05:00,090 --> 06:05:02,610
And I'd be concerned
about having the staff

3868
06:05:02,610 --> 06:05:05,672
have a good look at, you know,
where the money was spent

3869
06:05:05,672 --> 06:05:07,470
and what you got for your money.

3870
06:05:07,470 --> 06:05:08,303
Thank you.

3871
06:05:09,360 --> 06:05:12,429
- Is there any other
new business of council?

3872
06:05:12,429 --> 06:05:14,640
Okay if not, then we have to
go back to the planning items.

3873
06:05:14,640 --> 06:05:16,710
We'll leave the by-laws now
until the end of the meeting

3874
06:05:16,710 --> 06:05:18,330
and then they can be approved then.

3875
06:05:18,330 --> 06:05:20,390
So we're going back to 8.1.

3876
06:05:21,240 --> 06:05:23,400
Right now we have three
planning items left.

3877
06:05:23,400 --> 06:05:27,480
I should announce to the public
that 8.4 has been deferred.

3878
06:05:27,480 --> 06:05:30,240
We've been having some
computer issues at the city.

3879
06:05:30,240 --> 06:05:33,150
We understand that the
information for that one

3880
06:05:33,150 --> 06:05:35,520
wasn't uploaded or
wasn't actually available

3881
06:05:35,520 --> 06:05:37,920
on the website until this morning.

3882
06:05:37,920 --> 06:05:39,690
So that item's already been deferred.

3883
06:05:39,690 --> 06:05:42,590
So anyone that's here for the
Grassy Brook secondary plan,

3884
06:05:43,650 --> 06:05:45,870
that'll be back at the next council.

3885
06:05:45,870 --> 06:05:48,480
So the very next council
meeting, which I'm not sure,

3886
06:05:48,480 --> 06:05:51,992
is it in October, November,
somewhere around there?

3887
06:05:51,992 --> 06:05:53,575
- November 24th.

3888
06:05:53,575 --> 06:05:54,600
- November 24th.

3889
06:05:54,600 --> 06:05:57,963
So November 24th, the
Grassy Brook secondary plan

3890
06:05:57,963 --> 06:05:59,460
will come back.

3891
06:05:59,460 --> 06:06:02,130
Okay. So moving on to 8.1.

3892
06:06:02,130 --> 06:06:05,070
I'll ask the city clerk
to introduce the next item

3893
06:06:05,070 --> 06:06:05,903
on the agenda.

3894
06:06:08,550 --> 06:06:10,290
- A public meeting is now being convened

3895
06:06:10,290 --> 06:06:12,870
to consider a proposed amendment
to the city's official plan

3896
06:06:12,870 --> 06:06:17,700
and zoning by-law to permit
1,782 rental dwelling units

3897
06:06:17,700 --> 06:06:19,620
across two mixed use buildings

3898
06:06:19,620 --> 06:06:24,300
and four apartment dwellings
at 5259 Dorchester Road.

3899
06:06:24,300 --> 06:06:26,040
Notice was given by first class mail

3900
06:06:26,040 --> 06:06:29,727
in accordance with the Planning
Act on July 22nd, 2026,

3901
06:06:29,727 --> 06:06:32,700
and by posting a sign on
the property in question.

3902
06:06:32,700 --> 06:06:36,210
In accordance with Bill 185,
the minister, the applicant,

3903
06:06:36,210 --> 06:06:38,610
or specified person, public body,

3904
06:06:38,610 --> 06:06:40,170
or registered owner of any land

3905
06:06:40,170 --> 06:06:43,560
to which the official plan
amendment and by-law will apply,

3906
06:06:43,560 --> 06:06:45,510
who made oral submissions
at a public meeting

3907
06:06:45,510 --> 06:06:48,780
or written submissions to city
council prior to the adoption

3908
06:06:48,780 --> 06:06:52,140
of the official plan amendment
and/or passage of the by-law

3909
06:06:52,140 --> 06:06:54,568
may appeal the official plan amendment

3910
06:06:54,568 --> 06:06:56,820
and/or the by-law to the
Ontario Land Tribunal.

3911
06:06:56,820 --> 06:06:59,020
Third party appeals are
no longer permitted.

3912
06:07:00,880 --> 06:07:02,490
- Okay, thank you, Mr. Clerk.

3913
06:07:02,490 --> 06:07:05,490
I would now ask for someone
from the planning department.

3914
06:07:05,490 --> 06:07:08,070
Hello, Ms. Ceci, to explain the purpose

3915
06:07:08,070 --> 06:07:10,170
and the reason for the proposed amendment.

3916
06:07:19,798 --> 06:07:20,631
- Good afternoon, Chair

3917
06:07:20,631 --> 06:07:21,960
Welcome.
- Sorry about that.

3918
06:07:21,960 --> 06:07:24,780
Good afternoon, Chair, Mayor, Council,

3919
06:07:24,780 --> 06:07:26,310
Staff and Area Residents.

3920
06:07:26,310 --> 06:07:27,660
Thank you for joining the public meeting

3921
06:07:27,660 --> 06:07:29,940
for the official plan amendment
and zoning by-law amendment

3922
06:07:29,940 --> 06:07:32,733
located at 5259 Dorchester Road.

3923
06:07:35,089 --> 06:07:38,580
The subject lands are approximately
7.154 hectares in size

3924
06:07:38,580 --> 06:07:40,680
and are located on the west
side of Dorchester Road,

3925
06:07:40,680 --> 06:07:42,510
south of Montrose Road.

3926
06:07:42,510 --> 06:07:43,890
Sorry, Morrison Street.

3927
06:07:43,890 --> 06:07:45,030
The lands are currently vacant,

3928
06:07:45,030 --> 06:07:47,400
however, they have historically
been used for residential,

3929
06:07:47,400 --> 06:07:49,740
commercial and industrial purposes.

3930
06:07:49,740 --> 06:07:52,290
Surrounding land uses
include Arterra Wines Canada

3931
06:07:52,290 --> 06:07:54,990
to the north along with
Canadian National Railway line

3932
06:07:54,990 --> 06:07:56,400
and commercial uses.

3933
06:07:56,400 --> 06:07:58,500
To the south is the Queen Elizabeth Way

3934
06:07:58,500 --> 06:08:00,660
and Highway 420 on-ramps.

3935
06:08:00,660 --> 06:08:02,130
To the east is Dorchester Road,

3936
06:08:02,130 --> 06:08:04,380
an eight-storey apartment
dwelling and townhouse

3937
06:08:04,380 --> 06:08:05,637
and detached dwellings.

3938
06:08:05,637 --> 06:08:07,110
And to the west are lands owned

3939
06:08:07,110 --> 06:08:08,640
by the Ministry of Transportation

3940
06:08:08,640 --> 06:08:10,040
and the Queen Elizabeth Way.

3941
06:08:11,880 --> 06:08:13,980
The subject lands are
designated major commercial

3942
06:08:13,980 --> 06:08:15,930
in the city's official
plan and are located

3943
06:08:15,930 --> 06:08:18,150
within the Morrison Dorchester node.

3944
06:08:18,150 --> 06:08:20,280
Standalone residential
and mixed use buildings

3945
06:08:20,280 --> 06:08:22,680
are currently permitted
subject to the policies

3946
06:08:22,680 --> 06:08:24,510
of the official plan,
which currently permit

3947
06:08:24,510 --> 06:08:26,460
a height of between four and 10 stories

3948
06:08:26,460 --> 06:08:29,580
and a maximum density of
150 units per hectare.

3949
06:08:29,580 --> 06:08:31,472
An official plan amendment
is proposed to redesignate

3950
06:08:31,472 --> 06:08:35,190
the subject lands to a special policy area

3951
06:08:35,190 --> 06:08:37,320
with a residential land use designation

3952
06:08:37,320 --> 06:08:40,200
that would permit a maximum
building height of 25 stories,

3953
06:08:40,200 --> 06:08:43,200
a minimum net density of
100 units per hectare,

3954
06:08:43,200 --> 06:08:46,290
a maximum net density of
240 units per hectare,

3955
06:08:46,290 --> 06:08:49,470
neighborhood commercial uses
located within 500 meters

3956
06:08:49,470 --> 06:08:51,030
of existing commercial uses

3957
06:08:51,030 --> 06:08:53,460
and not exceeding a
gross leasable floor area

3958
06:08:53,460 --> 06:08:56,640
of 7,500 square meters,
a maintenance building,

3959
06:08:56,640 --> 06:08:58,233
and mini storage buildings.

3960
06:08:59,910 --> 06:09:01,890
The subject lands are
zoned site-specific planned

3961
06:09:01,890 --> 06:09:03,270
shopping commercial zone,

3962
06:09:03,270 --> 06:09:05,460
and a zoning by-law
amendment is also proposed

3963
06:09:05,460 --> 06:09:06,600
to rezone the subject lands

3964
06:09:06,600 --> 06:09:09,930
to site specific Residential
Apartment 5F Density Zone

3965
06:09:09,930 --> 06:09:13,470
and open space zone to permit
the uses in the R5F zone,

3966
06:09:13,470 --> 06:09:15,180
which includes apartment dwellings

3967
06:09:15,180 --> 06:09:18,390
and stacked townhouse dwellings,
various commercial uses,

3968
06:09:18,390 --> 06:09:20,850
a maintenance building,
and mini storage buildings.

3969
06:09:20,850 --> 06:09:23,220
Site-specific zoning
relief is also requested

3970
06:09:23,220 --> 06:09:24,420
to permit a reduction

3971
06:09:24,420 --> 06:09:26,610
to the minimum lot area per dwelling unit,

3972
06:09:26,610 --> 06:09:29,610
minimum interior side yard
width, minimum rear yard depth,

3973
06:09:29,610 --> 06:09:31,980
and minimum number of parking
spaces for dwelling units

3974
06:09:31,980 --> 06:09:34,475
and retail and office uses.

3975
06:09:34,475 --> 06:09:37,590
An increase to the maximum
building height is also requested

3976
06:09:37,590 --> 06:09:40,410
as well as the number of
apartment dwellings on one lot

3977
06:09:40,410 --> 06:09:42,780
and the projection of balconies
and unsupported canopies,

3978
06:09:42,780 --> 06:09:43,863
eaves, or gutters.

3979
06:09:45,390 --> 06:09:48,000
So this slide shows the previous site plan

3980
06:09:48,000 --> 06:09:49,350
that was originally submitted

3981
06:09:49,350 --> 06:09:51,510
with the development application.

3982
06:09:51,510 --> 06:09:53,250
This shows three mixed use buildings

3983
06:09:53,250 --> 06:09:54,450
and five apartment dwellings

3984
06:09:54,450 --> 06:09:56,970
with building heights ranging
from five to 20 stories

3985
06:09:56,970 --> 06:10:00,990
and containing a total
of 1,782 purpose-built

3986
06:10:00,990 --> 06:10:04,080
rental dwelling units, along
with mini storage buildings

3987
06:10:04,080 --> 06:10:06,750
and a mini storage and
maintenance building.

3988
06:10:06,750 --> 06:10:08,910
The proposal provided a 70 meter setback

3989
06:10:08,910 --> 06:10:10,680
between the north property
line, which is shared

3990
06:10:10,680 --> 06:10:12,450
with Arterra Wines Canada,

3991
06:10:12,450 --> 06:10:14,490
which is a class two industrial facility,

3992
06:10:14,490 --> 06:10:15,870
and the proposed mixed use buildings

3993
06:10:15,870 --> 06:10:19,530
and apartment dwellings
save and except building one

3994
06:10:19,530 --> 06:10:22,590
also achieved this 70 meter setback.

3995
06:10:22,590 --> 06:10:25,050
Written comments in opposition
to the proposed development

3996
06:10:25,050 --> 06:10:27,120
were received from Arterra Wines Canada,

3997
06:10:27,120 --> 06:10:29,520
citing concerns regarding
the potential for noise

3998
06:10:29,520 --> 06:10:32,160
and odor impacts and the
impact on the viability

3999
06:10:32,160 --> 06:10:34,413
of their facility in future expansions.

4000
06:10:36,000 --> 06:10:37,830
Following a meeting with
Arterra Wines Canada

4001
06:10:37,830 --> 06:10:40,170
in June of 2026, the applicant revised

4002
06:10:40,170 --> 06:10:42,720
the development concept and
a memorandum of understanding

4003
06:10:42,720 --> 06:10:44,760
dated July 6th, 2026,

4004
06:10:44,760 --> 06:10:48,090
was executed between Arterra
Wines Canada and the applicant.

4005
06:10:48,090 --> 06:10:50,670
The terms of the memorandum
are being implemented

4006
06:10:50,670 --> 06:10:52,860
through the revised
concept and will continue

4007
06:10:52,860 --> 06:10:54,750
to guide the coordination and cooperation

4008
06:10:54,750 --> 06:10:56,790
during the future site
plan approval process

4009
06:10:56,790 --> 06:10:58,590
and construction activities

4010
06:10:58,590 --> 06:11:01,050
including the inclusion
of warning clauses.

4011
06:11:01,050 --> 06:11:03,240
The revised submission concept proposes

4012
06:11:03,240 --> 06:11:07,650
the same number of purpose-built
rental units, so 1,782.

4013
06:11:07,650 --> 06:11:09,300
However, the layout has been redesigned

4014
06:11:09,300 --> 06:11:11,400
to push the buildings to
the periphery of the site

4015
06:11:11,400 --> 06:11:12,930
adjacent to the south lot line

4016
06:11:12,930 --> 06:11:15,750
and is now accommodating
a 100 meter setback

4017
06:11:15,750 --> 06:11:17,010
save and except building two,

4018
06:11:17,010 --> 06:11:19,800
which is at approximately 91 meters

4019
06:11:19,800 --> 06:11:22,500
from the shared property line.

4020
06:11:22,500 --> 06:11:25,260
The revised submission consists
of two mixed use buildings,

4021
06:11:25,260 --> 06:11:27,900
one commercial building,
and four apartment dwellings

4022
06:11:27,900 --> 06:11:29,850
with building heights that
range from five stories

4023
06:11:29,850 --> 06:11:32,520
to 25 stories, along with mini storage

4024
06:11:32,520 --> 06:11:33,820
and maintenance buildings.

4025
06:11:35,580 --> 06:11:37,470
This slide shows a conceptual rendering

4026
06:11:37,470 --> 06:11:39,150
of the proposed development.

4027
06:11:39,150 --> 06:11:40,740
This perspective is from Dorchester Road

4028
06:11:40,740 --> 06:11:42,000
opposite of the subject lands

4029
06:11:42,000 --> 06:11:45,060
and the applicant's presentation
will include more visuals

4030
06:11:45,060 --> 06:11:46,113
of this nature.

4031
06:11:47,700 --> 06:11:49,080
Moving on to neighborhood comments,

4032
06:11:49,080 --> 06:11:51,960
a neighborhood meeting was
held on October 1st, 2025

4033
06:11:51,960 --> 06:11:54,810
and attended by approximately
75 members of the public.

4034
06:11:54,810 --> 06:11:56,220
And a second neighborhood meeting

4035
06:11:56,220 --> 06:11:58,230
was held on December 3rd, 2025,

4036
06:11:58,230 --> 06:12:01,020
and was attended by 31
members of the public.

4037
06:12:01,020 --> 06:12:03,600
35 written comments submissions
have been received to date,

4038
06:12:03,600 --> 06:12:06,150
and the following slides
identify and address the concerns

4039
06:12:06,150 --> 06:12:08,220
that were raised by members of the public.

4040
06:12:08,220 --> 06:12:10,080
With respect to parking availability,

4041
06:12:10,080 --> 06:12:13,080
the proposed parking rate
of one to one parking spaces

4042
06:12:13,080 --> 06:12:14,340
per dwelling unit is consistent

4043
06:12:14,340 --> 06:12:18,450
with the city's recent
initiated parking study,

4044
06:12:18,450 --> 06:12:20,820
and the modified retail
and office parking rate

4045
06:12:20,820 --> 06:12:23,790
of one parking space for
every 27 square meters

4046
06:12:23,790 --> 06:12:25,860
is supported recognizing
the mixed use nature

4047
06:12:25,860 --> 06:12:26,693
of the development

4048
06:12:26,693 --> 06:12:29,550
and the opportunity for
shared parking arrangements.

4049
06:12:29,550 --> 06:12:31,380
From a wind and shadow impact perspective,

4050
06:12:31,380 --> 06:12:33,600
the shadow study indicates
that adjacent residential

4051
06:12:33,600 --> 06:12:35,130
amenity areas will meet or exceed

4052
06:12:35,130 --> 06:12:38,040
the six hour of sunlight
minimum requirement,

4053
06:12:38,040 --> 06:12:41,010
and public outdoor amenity
areas will not be impacted.

4054
06:12:41,010 --> 06:12:43,560
And the pedestrian wind study
identifies localized areas

4055
06:12:43,560 --> 06:12:46,200
of uncomfortable and
unsafe wind conditions

4056
06:12:46,200 --> 06:12:48,510
during the month on the subject lands.

4057
06:12:48,510 --> 06:12:51,960
However, we are recommending
a holding provision requiring

4058
06:12:51,960 --> 06:12:54,630
the submission of an updated
quantitative wind study

4059
06:12:54,630 --> 06:12:56,697
but they are confident that
through the implementation

4060
06:12:56,697 --> 06:12:59,397
and mitigation measure that
they'll be able to address

4061
06:13:00,618 --> 06:13:03,270
the wind concerns that were brought up.

4062
06:13:03,270 --> 06:13:04,380
Regarding the appropriateness

4063
06:13:04,380 --> 06:13:06,300
of the proposed building
height and density,

4064
06:13:06,300 --> 06:13:08,160
staff note that the proposed
buildings are arranged

4065
06:13:08,160 --> 06:13:10,110
with the greatest building
heights at the periphery

4066
06:13:10,110 --> 06:13:13,920
of the site away from the
adjacent and nearby residential

4067
06:13:13,920 --> 06:13:15,600
and industrial land uses.

4068
06:13:15,600 --> 06:13:18,540
And building heights
step down to between five

4069
06:13:18,540 --> 06:13:21,630
and 14 stories adjacent
to Dorchester Road.

4070
06:13:21,630 --> 06:13:23,820
And it's noted that across
the street is an eight story

4071
06:13:23,820 --> 06:13:26,220
apartment dwelling, and
so this is bringing online

4072
06:13:26,220 --> 06:13:29,640
a similar scale of development
adjacent to Dorchester Road.

4073
06:13:29,640 --> 06:13:31,650
Further, the technical
study work completed to date

4074
06:13:31,650 --> 06:13:33,810
demonstrates that the proposed
development and density

4075
06:13:33,810 --> 06:13:35,910
can be supported by the
existing transportation

4076
06:13:35,910 --> 06:13:39,240
and servicing infrastructure
subject to the removal

4077
06:13:39,240 --> 06:13:40,800
of the recommended holding provision,

4078
06:13:40,800 --> 06:13:42,573
which I'll discuss in more detail.

4079
06:13:44,070 --> 06:13:45,570
With respect to traffic volumes,

4080
06:13:45,570 --> 06:13:49,110
a traffic impact study
identified that the intersection

4081
06:13:49,110 --> 06:13:52,140
of Dorchester and Dawson
Street operates adequately now

4082
06:13:52,140 --> 06:13:54,630
with minimal delays and
is expected to continue

4083
06:13:54,630 --> 06:13:56,370
to operate adequately in the future

4084
06:13:56,370 --> 06:13:58,500
with the proposed development.

4085
06:13:58,500 --> 06:14:01,080
The study identified that some
movements at the intersection

4086
06:14:01,080 --> 06:14:03,690
of Dorchester Road and
Morrison Street operate

4087
06:14:03,690 --> 06:14:06,912
with poorer levels of service
under existing conditions

4088
06:14:06,912 --> 06:14:08,610
and that the addition of
site generated traffic

4089
06:14:08,610 --> 06:14:11,610
is expected to further degrade operations

4090
06:14:11,610 --> 06:14:14,820
for some movements resulting
in increased vehicle queues

4091
06:14:14,820 --> 06:14:16,830
and delays at the intersection.

4092
06:14:16,830 --> 06:14:19,470
While these operational deficiencies exist

4093
06:14:19,470 --> 06:14:21,390
under existing conditions,

4094
06:14:21,390 --> 06:14:23,550
the proposed development
is expected to contribute

4095
06:14:23,550 --> 06:14:25,860
in part to the increased
delays in queuing.

4096
06:14:25,860 --> 06:14:29,100
A holding provision is recommended
to require the submission

4097
06:14:29,100 --> 06:14:31,480
and approval of an updated
traffic impact study

4098
06:14:32,340 --> 06:14:34,800
to confirm whether conclusions
from the original study

4099
06:14:34,800 --> 06:14:38,940
remain valid, as well as
to require the removal

4100
06:14:38,940 --> 06:14:41,250
of that holding provision
on a phase by phase basis

4101
06:14:41,250 --> 06:14:43,170
rather than for the
entirety of the development,

4102
06:14:43,170 --> 06:14:45,928
recognizing that it will be developed

4103
06:14:45,928 --> 06:14:49,260
on a potentially 10 year or longer basis.

4104
06:14:49,260 --> 06:14:51,840
And that will allow staff
to assess traffic conditions

4105
06:14:51,840 --> 06:14:53,283
as they come online.

4106
06:14:58,350 --> 06:15:01,260
And with respect to the
number of site accesses,

4107
06:15:01,260 --> 06:15:03,090
a vehicular access to the subject lands

4108
06:15:03,090 --> 06:15:04,950
is provided from Dawson Street.

4109
06:15:04,950 --> 06:15:06,810
In response to the public comments,

4110
06:15:06,810 --> 06:15:08,640
an emergency access to Dorchester Road

4111
06:15:08,640 --> 06:15:10,620
was also incorporated into the site design

4112
06:15:10,620 --> 06:15:11,453
and will be subject

4113
06:15:11,453 --> 06:15:13,470
to the Ministry of
Transportation's approval.

4114
06:15:13,470 --> 06:15:15,720
And regarding traffic behavior associated

4115
06:15:15,720 --> 06:15:17,550
with the existing train crossing,

4116
06:15:17,550 --> 06:15:19,290
the development is not
anticipated to result

4117
06:15:19,290 --> 06:15:20,340
in a significant increase

4118
06:15:20,340 --> 06:15:22,140
in neighborhood cut through traffic.

4119
06:15:25,890 --> 06:15:27,360
From an affordability perspective,

4120
06:15:27,360 --> 06:15:31,020
the proposed development will
provide 1,782 purpose-built

4121
06:15:31,020 --> 06:15:33,720
rental dwelling units
consisting of a mix of bachelor,

4122
06:15:33,720 --> 06:15:36,030
one, two, and three bedroom units.

4123
06:15:36,030 --> 06:15:37,650
Rents are expected to be attainable

4124
06:15:37,650 --> 06:15:40,080
for moderate and high income households.

4125
06:15:40,080 --> 06:15:42,210
And while the proposed
development does not include

4126
06:15:42,210 --> 06:15:43,260
affordable housing units,

4127
06:15:43,260 --> 06:15:46,260
it will contribute to the
city's rental housing supply.

4128
06:15:46,260 --> 06:15:48,690
With respect to construction
timing and impacts,

4129
06:15:48,690 --> 06:15:50,040
build out of the proposed development

4130
06:15:50,040 --> 06:15:52,740
is anticipated to occur
over a 10 year period

4131
06:15:52,740 --> 06:15:55,800
and is expected to proceed in phases.

4132
06:15:55,800 --> 06:15:57,690
No blasting activities are proposed

4133
06:15:57,690 --> 06:16:00,210
and dust generated during
construction activities

4134
06:16:00,210 --> 06:16:01,860
will be managed through the implementation

4135
06:16:01,860 --> 06:16:05,520
of industry standard
best practice management,

4136
06:16:05,520 --> 06:16:07,230
as well as construction management plans

4137
06:16:07,230 --> 06:16:09,150
at the future site plan control stage.

4138
06:16:09,150 --> 06:16:12,030
And lastly, with respect to amenity space,

4139
06:16:12,030 --> 06:16:15,300
a total of 27.45 square meters is proposed

4140
06:16:15,300 --> 06:16:19,530
for each dwelling unit some
of which is to occur outdoor

4141
06:16:19,530 --> 06:16:22,680
or at grade, and each dwelling
unit will have direct access

4142
06:16:22,680 --> 06:16:24,660
to a private terrace or balcony.

4143
06:16:24,660 --> 06:16:27,210
This exceeds the city's
minimum requirement.

4144
06:16:27,210 --> 06:16:28,290
And it's also noted

4145
06:16:28,290 --> 06:16:31,140
that the subject lands
are located in walking

4146
06:16:31,140 --> 06:16:34,500
and cycling distance to
several trails and parks.

4147
06:16:34,500 --> 06:16:38,460
I did want to also address
comments that were recently

4148
06:16:38,460 --> 06:16:41,590
provided by Amrise, which is an adjacent

4149
06:16:42,840 --> 06:16:45,990
nearby industrial facility
that's located approximately

4150
06:16:45,990 --> 06:16:47,640
350 meters away.

4151
06:16:47,640 --> 06:16:49,530
So they did provide some comments stating

4152
06:16:49,530 --> 06:16:53,010
that they didn't agree with
the land use classification

4153
06:16:53,010 --> 06:16:56,160
that was assigned to them,
and were interested in

4154
06:16:56,160 --> 06:16:59,820
having a warning clause
included in the agreements

4155
06:16:59,820 --> 06:17:02,640
of purchase and sale
relative to their facility.

4156
06:17:02,640 --> 06:17:06,570
We actually spoke with the MHBC today

4157
06:17:06,570 --> 06:17:08,580
who is representing Amrise.

4158
06:17:08,580 --> 06:17:12,480
And we noted that the
applicant is undergoing

4159
06:17:12,480 --> 06:17:14,130
a peer review process right now.

4160
06:17:14,130 --> 06:17:16,500
There is still work to
be done in that regard,

4161
06:17:16,500 --> 06:17:19,290
and so we have told them that
we'll provide their comments

4162
06:17:19,290 --> 06:17:21,450
to the peer reviewer

4163
06:17:21,450 --> 06:17:23,100
so that they can take
them under advisement

4164
06:17:23,100 --> 06:17:24,450
and work with Amrise to ensure

4165
06:17:24,450 --> 06:17:26,610
that their interests are addressed.

4166
06:17:26,610 --> 06:17:28,923
So I just wanted to raise that as well.

4167
06:17:36,180 --> 06:17:38,037
So staff recommend approval
of the official plan

4168
06:17:38,037 --> 06:17:40,650
and zoning by-law amendment
subject to the regulations,

4169
06:17:40,650 --> 06:17:42,750
modifications, and
holding provision detailed

4170
06:17:42,750 --> 06:17:44,760
in this report for the following reasons.

4171
06:17:44,760 --> 06:17:46,710
The proposed development satisfies matters

4172
06:17:46,710 --> 06:17:48,210
of provincial interest as outlined

4173
06:17:48,210 --> 06:17:50,370
in Section 2 of the Planning Act.

4174
06:17:50,370 --> 06:17:52,560
The proposed development
will conform to provincial,

4175
06:17:52,560 --> 06:17:54,300
regional and city policies with respect

4176
06:17:54,300 --> 06:17:56,700
to land use compatibility,
public health and safety,

4177
06:17:56,700 --> 06:17:59,250
archeology, infrastructure,
and site condition.

4178
06:17:59,250 --> 06:18:01,260
Subject to the recommended
holding provision

4179
06:18:01,260 --> 06:18:03,210
and the implementation
of noise control measures

4180
06:18:03,210 --> 06:18:04,800
and warning clauses.

4181
06:18:04,800 --> 06:18:06,210
The applicant has worked collaboratively

4182
06:18:06,210 --> 06:18:08,400
with Arterra Wines Canada
to develop a proposal

4183
06:18:08,400 --> 06:18:10,770
that addresses the
interests of both parties.

4184
06:18:10,770 --> 06:18:12,810
As a result, the proposed
development will be compatible

4185
06:18:12,810 --> 06:18:13,950
with adjacent land uses,

4186
06:18:13,950 --> 06:18:15,660
including Arterra Wines Canada,

4187
06:18:15,660 --> 06:18:19,260
from air quality, odor, noise,
and vibration perspectives.

4188
06:18:19,260 --> 06:18:21,420
Subject to the recommended
holding provisions

4189
06:18:21,420 --> 06:18:23,700
requiring completion of
the peer review process

4190
06:18:23,700 --> 06:18:25,710
and the implementation
of noise control measures

4191
06:18:25,710 --> 06:18:27,060
and warning clauses.

4192
06:18:27,060 --> 06:18:28,590
The proposed development will not result

4193
06:18:28,590 --> 06:18:31,470
in any adverse sun and wind
impacts following the removal

4194
06:18:31,470 --> 06:18:34,263
of the required quantitative wind study.

4195
06:18:36,600 --> 06:18:38,880
The proposed development
represents an efficient use

4196
06:18:38,880 --> 06:18:41,010
of underutilized land and
will support the creation

4197
06:18:41,010 --> 06:18:45,046
of a complete community
and a vibrant public realm

4198
06:18:45,046 --> 06:18:46,380
by accommodating a mix of land uses,

4199
06:18:46,380 --> 06:18:49,830
including ground floor
commercial along Dorchester Road.

4200
06:18:49,830 --> 06:18:51,840
The proposed development
will help address the rental

4201
06:18:51,840 --> 06:18:54,720
housing supply shortage by
increasing the availability

4202
06:18:54,720 --> 06:18:57,360
of long-term rental housing in the city.

4203
06:18:57,360 --> 06:18:59,010
The supporting studies and materials

4204
06:18:59,010 --> 06:19:01,350
submitted with the application demonstrate

4205
06:19:01,350 --> 06:19:03,540
that the proposed scale
and form of development

4206
06:19:03,540 --> 06:19:05,070
are appropriate for this location

4207
06:19:05,070 --> 06:19:07,707
and can be supported by
the existing transportation

4208
06:19:07,707 --> 06:19:10,230
and infrastructure
subject to the recommended

4209
06:19:10,230 --> 06:19:11,850
holding provision requiring the submission

4210
06:19:11,850 --> 06:19:13,830
of an updated traffic impact study,

4211
06:19:13,830 --> 06:19:16,980
which is to be removed on
a phase by phase basis.

4212
06:19:16,980 --> 06:19:18,690
The proposed zoning and
site specific amendments

4213
06:19:18,690 --> 06:19:20,850
are appropriate for the
area and will facilitate

4214
06:19:20,850 --> 06:19:23,460
an efficient use of land
in a compact built form.

4215
06:19:23,460 --> 06:19:25,500
And the proposed development
will address the concerns

4216
06:19:25,500 --> 06:19:27,100
raised by members of the public.

4217
06:19:29,280 --> 06:19:31,227
In summary, staff recommend
approval of the official plan

4218
06:19:31,227 --> 06:19:33,780
and zoning by-law amendment
subject to the regulations

4219
06:19:33,780 --> 06:19:35,940
and modifications detailed
in the staff report.

4220
06:19:35,940 --> 06:19:37,590
It's also recommended that council include

4221
06:19:37,590 --> 06:19:39,270
a holding provision in the amending by-law

4222
06:19:39,270 --> 06:19:40,230
to require the submission

4223
06:19:40,230 --> 06:19:42,030
of an updated quantitative wind study,

4224
06:19:42,030 --> 06:19:43,830
an updated traffic impact study,

4225
06:19:43,830 --> 06:19:45,600
and the completion of
the peer review process

4226
06:19:45,600 --> 06:19:48,090
associated with the land
use compatibility study,

4227
06:19:48,090 --> 06:19:50,580
screening-level odour assessment and noise

4228
06:19:50,580 --> 06:19:53,010
and vibration impact study.

4229
06:19:53,010 --> 06:19:55,440
Staff also recommend that
council authorizes the inclusion

4230
06:19:55,440 --> 06:19:57,930
of a sunset clause in the amending by-law

4231
06:19:57,930 --> 06:20:00,450
to require the execution
of a site plan agreement

4232
06:20:00,450 --> 06:20:03,330
or receipt of draft plan
and condominium approval

4233
06:20:03,330 --> 06:20:04,950
for the first phase of the development

4234
06:20:04,950 --> 06:20:08,280
within three years of the
amending by-law coming into effect

4235
06:20:08,280 --> 06:20:10,110
with the possibility of
a one year extension.

4236
06:20:10,110 --> 06:20:12,540
Again, that's recognizing
that it's a multi-phase,

4237
06:20:12,540 --> 06:20:14,280
multi-year build out.

4238
06:20:14,280 --> 06:20:16,230
So we're tying that to the
first phase of development.

4239
06:20:16,230 --> 06:20:18,870
And lastly, staff recommend
that council delegates authority

4240
06:20:18,870 --> 06:20:21,030
to the general manager of
planning, building and development

4241
06:20:21,030 --> 06:20:22,470
to approve the implementing by-laws

4242
06:20:22,470 --> 06:20:24,030
at a future delegated meeting.

4243
06:20:24,030 --> 06:20:25,470
Thank you.

4244
06:20:25,470 --> 06:20:26,640
- Thank you, Mackenzie.

4245
06:20:26,640 --> 06:20:29,400
Does any member of council have
any questions for Ms. Ceci?

4246
06:20:29,400 --> 06:20:33,060
I have Councillor Lococo and
Councillor Nieuwesteeg, please.

4247
06:20:33,060 --> 06:20:34,710
- Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4248
06:20:34,710 --> 06:20:36,930
I guess my first set of
questions through the chair

4249
06:20:36,930 --> 06:20:39,690
to Ms. Ceci is regarding the industrial.

4250
06:20:39,690 --> 06:20:42,720
I know that there's a
support letter from Arterra.

4251
06:20:42,720 --> 06:20:45,090
What will happen if a resident,

4252
06:20:45,090 --> 06:20:48,360
even though they sign
their offer to purchase

4253
06:20:48,360 --> 06:20:51,420
and it's on title, what if
a resident does complain

4254
06:20:51,420 --> 06:20:56,420
about noise or odor or
something else to the MOE?

4255
06:20:56,430 --> 06:20:58,350
Does the MOE still have to follow up?

4256
06:20:58,350 --> 06:21:00,840
Because we've had a lot of
discussions around this table

4257
06:21:00,840 --> 06:21:02,820
with industrial and noise.

4258
06:21:02,820 --> 06:21:04,830
And once it goes to the MOE,

4259
06:21:04,830 --> 06:21:06,510
the MOE have to follow up with it.

4260
06:21:06,510 --> 06:21:09,510
So I'm wondering in this
case, what will happen?

4261
06:21:09,510 --> 06:21:10,500
- Through to the Councillor.

4262
06:21:10,500 --> 06:21:11,880
So that is something that the MOE

4263
06:21:11,880 --> 06:21:14,430
would still have to follow
up on regardless of anything

4264
06:21:14,430 --> 06:21:18,060
that would be registered on
title for the subject lands.

4265
06:21:18,060 --> 06:21:19,770
I know that's something
that's been raised in the past

4266
06:21:19,770 --> 06:21:22,770
and is part of some ongoing
discussions with the ministry,

4267
06:21:22,770 --> 06:21:26,160
but at this point they would
still have to take action

4268
06:21:26,160 --> 06:21:27,870
on a complaint.

4269
06:21:27,870 --> 06:21:31,410
- Thank you, so we're in the
same position as a council

4270
06:21:31,410 --> 06:21:34,680
who approves a development
close to an industry,

4271
06:21:34,680 --> 06:21:37,830
even though having all of
the support from Arterra,

4272
06:21:37,830 --> 06:21:40,050
it on title, then signed agreement.

4273
06:21:40,050 --> 06:21:41,130
If there's still complaints,

4274
06:21:41,130 --> 06:21:43,200
we're still in the same process.

4275
06:21:43,200 --> 06:21:46,890
The MOE could go to Arterra
and ask for remediation,

4276
06:21:46,890 --> 06:21:49,190
mitigation, and they
would have to spend money

4277
06:21:50,410 --> 06:21:51,603
to address that?

4278
06:21:53,490 --> 06:21:54,660
- Through you to the Councillor.

4279
06:21:54,660 --> 06:21:58,230
They do have their environmental
compliance approval,

4280
06:21:58,230 --> 06:22:02,880
so potentially that could
be something that occurs

4281
06:22:02,880 --> 06:22:06,573
from the result of that complaint.

4282
06:22:08,010 --> 06:22:10,560
I'm not sure if the general
manager has something to add.

4283
06:22:10,560 --> 06:22:12,780
- Thank you. Your acting
worship to the Councillor.

4284
06:22:12,780 --> 06:22:17,780
So we do our best in
accordance with the D-6.

4285
06:22:17,850 --> 06:22:20,100
That's really all we can do.

4286
06:22:20,100 --> 06:22:23,670
And we do try to listen
to obviously the industry

4287
06:22:23,670 --> 06:22:28,230
and provide comments as
you've heard Ms. Ceci's

4288
06:22:28,230 --> 06:22:30,120
been contacted by another industry.

4289
06:22:30,120 --> 06:22:32,160
So we're trying to do our best to ensure

4290
06:22:32,160 --> 06:22:33,600
the separation is there.

4291
06:22:33,600 --> 06:22:37,230
In this case, given that
Arterra is a class two facility,

4292
06:22:37,230 --> 06:22:39,720
that minimum separation
distance is 70 meters.

4293
06:22:39,720 --> 06:22:41,070
We're now at 100.

4294
06:22:41,070 --> 06:22:44,580
So, you know, we could have
this debate over and over.

4295
06:22:44,580 --> 06:22:45,960
We could provide a 1,000 meters.

4296
06:22:45,960 --> 06:22:47,760
They could still complain.

4297
06:22:47,760 --> 06:22:51,060
So we do have to kind
of balance that with,

4298
06:22:51,060 --> 06:22:53,160
you know, how do we
proceed with development

4299
06:22:53,160 --> 06:22:56,940
while still making sure that
based on the best information

4300
06:22:56,940 --> 06:22:59,100
we have at the time while
you're making the decision,

4301
06:22:59,100 --> 06:23:01,230
that we know the answers.

4302
06:23:01,230 --> 06:23:02,970
And we have experts that reviewed it.

4303
06:23:02,970 --> 06:23:04,200
It's been peer reviewed.

4304
06:23:04,200 --> 06:23:06,030
We have holding provisions to make sure.

4305
06:23:06,030 --> 06:23:07,680
We're doing everything we can.

4306
06:23:07,680 --> 06:23:09,990
But in the end, as Ms. Ceci said,

4307
06:23:09,990 --> 06:23:12,900
if they go above their
noise limits in the ECA

4308
06:23:12,900 --> 06:23:16,500
that they're given and a
complaint's registered,

4309
06:23:16,500 --> 06:23:18,690
it will be on the
industry to correct that.

4310
06:23:18,690 --> 06:23:19,560
- Thank you.

4311
06:23:19,560 --> 06:23:22,110
I just don't want to be in the
position as a council member

4312
06:23:22,110 --> 06:23:24,510
to choose between industry and residents.

4313
06:23:24,510 --> 06:23:28,260
If we put everything in place
and residents still complain,

4314
06:23:28,260 --> 06:23:30,930
and what happens to the
secondary purchaser?

4315
06:23:30,930 --> 06:23:35,520
Yes, it's in the agreement
or a secondary rental person,

4316
06:23:35,520 --> 06:23:36,480
what happens to them?

4317
06:23:36,480 --> 06:23:38,070
So I still have concerns.

4318
06:23:38,070 --> 06:23:40,200
And then the other part
about industrial in there,

4319
06:23:40,200 --> 06:23:41,700
I was concerned about the comments

4320
06:23:41,700 --> 06:23:44,877
that there's 19 industrial
facilities with the current uses

4321
06:23:44,877 --> 06:23:47,160
and there was discrepancy about classes.

4322
06:23:47,160 --> 06:23:48,930
We've talked about industry classes

4323
06:23:48,930 --> 06:23:50,520
over and over and over again.

4324
06:23:50,520 --> 06:23:53,220
And I think it was very apparent in here

4325
06:23:53,220 --> 06:23:55,770
that there's a lot of
discrepancy about which classes.

4326
06:23:55,770 --> 06:23:57,903
So I think we need to fix that.

4327
06:23:59,430 --> 06:24:03,780
The other thing in there,
it talks about the noise

4328
06:24:03,780 --> 06:24:06,270
in the one section on page 14.

4329
06:24:06,270 --> 06:24:10,290
It says it does, it's not
expected to impact the operation

4330
06:24:10,290 --> 06:24:13,890
of Arterra with the
environmental noise compliance,

4331
06:24:13,890 --> 06:24:15,570
but it doesn't talk about odor.

4332
06:24:15,570 --> 06:24:17,730
And I know the report did talk about odor,

4333
06:24:17,730 --> 06:24:20,490
especially during harvest
and the fermentation,

4334
06:24:20,490 --> 06:24:22,530
but I'm just concerned that that clause

4335
06:24:22,530 --> 06:24:24,750
did not talk about odor.

4336
06:24:24,750 --> 06:24:27,180
Is there going to be a problem with that?

4337
06:24:27,180 --> 06:24:28,020
- Through to the Councillor,

4338
06:24:28,020 --> 06:24:29,760
that's something that's still ongoing.

4339
06:24:29,760 --> 06:24:32,820
They've done a preliminary
screening odor assessment

4340
06:24:32,820 --> 06:24:34,320
of the odor impacts.

4341
06:24:34,320 --> 06:24:36,000
They've looked at the wind patterns.

4342
06:24:36,000 --> 06:24:40,063
They're pretty confident based
on the primary wind patterns

4343
06:24:41,850 --> 06:24:45,360
in the area that there
won't be odor impacts.

4344
06:24:45,360 --> 06:24:48,330
We are working with Arterra to
get their dispersion modeling

4345
06:24:48,330 --> 06:24:51,093
so that they could do more
accurate modeling of that.

4346
06:24:52,228 --> 06:24:53,061
And that's what they're working

4347
06:24:53,061 --> 06:24:53,894
through with the peer reviewers.

4348
06:24:53,894 --> 06:24:56,610
So they are confident
that the odor impacts

4349
06:24:56,610 --> 06:24:58,560
would be minimal, and
we would work with them

4350
06:24:58,560 --> 06:25:02,129
to include warning clauses to that effect.

4351
06:25:02,129 --> 06:25:02,967
- Okay, thank you.

4352
06:25:02,967 --> 06:25:05,340
The second topic I had was traffic.

4353
06:25:05,340 --> 06:25:07,603
I know you talked about traffic in there.

4354
06:25:07,603 --> 06:25:12,300
1,782 units plus mixed commercial.

4355
06:25:12,300 --> 06:25:14,610
We already have complaints
about congestion

4356
06:25:14,610 --> 06:25:17,100
at Morrison Street, and I
know their current conditions.

4357
06:25:17,100 --> 06:25:18,750
We have the train that blocks it off

4358
06:25:18,750 --> 06:25:20,133
and there's huge backup.

4359
06:25:21,240 --> 06:25:24,180
What kind of measures can be put in place

4360
06:25:24,180 --> 06:25:25,980
after with the holding clause?

4361
06:25:25,980 --> 06:25:30,153
What can we do to minimize
those traffic impacts?

4362
06:25:31,170 --> 06:25:32,003
- Through you to the councillors.

4363
06:25:32,003 --> 06:25:35,820
So we've been advised by the
transportation services staff

4364
06:25:35,820 --> 06:25:40,470
that Morrison Street is at
its ultimate right of way

4365
06:25:40,470 --> 06:25:42,840
in terms of the lanes that are there.

4366
06:25:42,840 --> 06:25:44,940
There could be some minor modifications

4367
06:25:44,940 --> 06:25:45,773
to some of the lanes.

4368
06:25:45,773 --> 06:25:48,990
I understand some of
signal optimization there

4369
06:25:48,990 --> 06:25:50,130
that could improve it.

4370
06:25:50,130 --> 06:25:53,310
So that's why we're proposing
that phase by phase removal

4371
06:25:53,310 --> 06:25:56,580
of the holding provision
to ensure that every time

4372
06:25:56,580 --> 06:25:59,702
that they're advancing a new
phase, that we're looking at,

4373
06:25:59,702 --> 06:26:00,570
you know, what are those
current conditions,

4374
06:26:00,570 --> 06:26:04,320
whether that be five years
from now for a second phase.

4375
06:26:04,320 --> 06:26:06,600
You know, how is that intersection

4376
06:26:06,600 --> 06:26:07,950
and how's that road operating now?

4377
06:26:07,950 --> 06:26:10,140
And then what could be done
at that time to address those?

4378
06:26:10,140 --> 06:26:13,140
So we recognize that
there's those concerns

4379
06:26:13,140 --> 06:26:14,910
that were raised with that intersection.

4380
06:26:14,910 --> 06:26:17,910
And that's why we have that
kind of monitoring approach

4381
06:26:17,910 --> 06:26:19,470
implemented into the holding provision

4382
06:26:19,470 --> 06:26:21,970
so that there's that updated
assessment happening.

4383
06:26:22,980 --> 06:26:26,580
- Thank you. Things like
signals, turning lanes.

4384
06:26:26,580 --> 06:26:30,510
What else can be done to
help the traffic flow?

4385
06:26:30,510 --> 06:26:32,580
- Through to the Councillor.

4386
06:26:32,580 --> 06:26:33,750
I believe the applicant

4387
06:26:33,750 --> 06:26:36,300
has their transportation consultant here

4388
06:26:36,300 --> 06:26:37,470
so they can speak a little bit more,

4389
06:26:37,470 --> 06:26:40,110
but the range of what was addressed

4390
06:26:40,110 --> 06:26:43,170
is mostly signal optimization
and turning lanes.

4391
06:26:43,170 --> 06:26:46,320
There's no opportunity to
expand the number of lanes

4392
06:26:46,320 --> 06:26:47,153
within the right of way.

4393
06:26:47,153 --> 06:26:49,200
It's at its ultimate right of way.

4394
06:26:49,200 --> 06:26:52,260
- Okay, next set of questions regards

4395
06:26:52,260 --> 06:26:56,370
the region's comment about
significant wet weather flows.

4396
06:26:56,370 --> 06:26:59,100
And I didn't see that in the holding.

4397
06:26:59,100 --> 06:27:01,440
It talks about that there's
any additional flows

4398
06:27:01,440 --> 06:27:04,530
would have negative impact
and increase overflows.

4399
06:27:04,530 --> 06:27:07,890
That the city and the region
are going to review it.

4400
06:27:07,890 --> 06:27:10,860
Who's paying for that cost to review it

4401
06:27:10,860 --> 06:27:12,240
and to implement whatever?

4402
06:27:12,240 --> 06:27:14,400
What will the developer pay for that?

4403
06:27:14,400 --> 06:27:15,930
- Through to the Councillor.

4404
06:27:15,930 --> 06:27:19,380
So what the regional comments
have come for are saying

4405
06:27:19,380 --> 06:27:22,230
that there's capacity
for dry weather flows.

4406
06:27:22,230 --> 06:27:24,930
So there's no concern
within the existing system.

4407
06:27:24,930 --> 06:27:27,720
The issues are with respect
to wet weather flows.

4408
06:27:27,720 --> 06:27:29,967
And so that's an ongoing issue
that the city is aware of

4409
06:27:29,967 --> 06:27:33,780
and is working with the
region for I&I infiltration

4410
06:27:33,780 --> 06:27:35,100
and inflow reduction programs,

4411
06:27:35,100 --> 06:27:36,330
other programs of that nature.

4412
06:27:36,330 --> 06:27:39,660
So it wouldn't necessarily
be the responsibility

4413
06:27:39,660 --> 06:27:42,450
of the developer as it's
already an ongoing issue,

4414
06:27:42,450 --> 06:27:45,693
but there is capacity from
a dry weather perspective.

4415
06:27:46,590 --> 06:27:49,860
- Okay, through the chair, if
it's not the responsibility

4416
06:27:49,860 --> 06:27:54,120
of the developer and we
have to increase the flows

4417
06:27:54,120 --> 06:27:57,510
and the mitigation there, how
much will that cost the city?

4418
06:27:57,510 --> 06:27:58,890
How much could it cost the city

4419
06:27:58,890 --> 06:28:00,450
because we're having another development

4420
06:28:00,450 --> 06:28:04,560
now we have to fix an issue
that was already there?

4421
06:28:04,560 --> 06:28:07,170
- I would pass it over to Mr. Sticca,

4422
06:28:07,170 --> 06:28:08,760
but he's not here right now.

4423
06:28:08,760 --> 06:28:11,157
So I expect maybe we
can circle back to that

4424
06:28:11,157 --> 06:28:13,080
if we can do that when he returns.

4425
06:28:13,080 --> 06:28:15,030
- [Victor] Perhaps Mr.
Burgess can answer it.

4426
06:28:15,030 --> 06:28:18,390
I don't know if you got the
full gist of the question.

4427
06:28:18,390 --> 06:28:20,703
It was more in regards to nothing-

4428
06:28:20,703 --> 06:28:22,290
- There's pre-construction,
post-construction.

4429
06:28:22,290 --> 06:28:25,590
And if it can't handle it,
is the city responsible?

4430
06:28:25,590 --> 06:28:27,360
And what kind of funding is that,

4431
06:28:27,360 --> 06:28:30,298
that the city would have
to put out to fix that?

4432
06:28:30,298 --> 06:28:31,131
- Yeah, I'm not an engineer.

4433
06:28:31,131 --> 06:28:31,964
I don't play one on TV.

4434
06:28:31,964 --> 06:28:34,710
So as far as the capacity
thing, I will pass that off.

4435
06:28:34,710 --> 06:28:37,950
But like any development,

4436
06:28:37,950 --> 06:28:40,890
you have DC revenue, so incremental.

4437
06:28:40,890 --> 06:28:42,440
In a lot of these cases though,

4438
06:28:43,680 --> 06:28:45,390
there's a lot of existing to benefit.

4439
06:28:45,390 --> 06:28:49,470
So people always point
to, well, you know the,

4440
06:28:49,470 --> 06:28:51,000
you know, there's a new development

4441
06:28:51,000 --> 06:28:53,400
and therefore there, you know, everything,

4442
06:28:53,400 --> 06:28:56,490
that whole new intersection
should be charged to the DC.

4443
06:28:56,490 --> 06:28:59,070
That's not how it works because
there's benefit to existing,

4444
06:28:59,070 --> 06:29:00,090
which takes up a lot of it.

4445
06:29:00,090 --> 06:29:02,160
So the improvement in those intersections,

4446
06:29:02,160 --> 06:29:05,010
a lot of times when we
redo a road, for example,

4447
06:29:05,010 --> 06:29:06,960
we might add a bike lane
and that kind of stuff.

4448
06:29:06,960 --> 06:29:08,220
So the cost is there.

4449
06:29:08,220 --> 06:29:10,170
But as far as funding sources,

4450
06:29:10,170 --> 06:29:11,760
that's always part of our capital plan

4451
06:29:11,760 --> 06:29:14,040
with the development
charges that gets created

4452
06:29:14,040 --> 06:29:15,780
from the development itself.

4453
06:29:15,780 --> 06:29:19,320
So it's designed in a way that, you know,

4454
06:29:19,320 --> 06:29:21,960
the new incremental growth costs

4455
06:29:21,960 --> 06:29:23,940
would come from the development charge.

4456
06:29:23,940 --> 06:29:26,550
And anything that's you
know, benefit to existing

4457
06:29:26,550 --> 06:29:29,100
comes from the tax levy.

4458
06:29:29,100 --> 06:29:31,020
- Okay, thank you. Two more questions.

4459
06:29:31,020 --> 06:29:33,420
At one point, we were
talking about extending

4460
06:29:33,420 --> 06:29:36,360
Morrison Street straight through.

4461
06:29:36,360 --> 06:29:39,720
Would that help in this
instance with all of the traffic

4462
06:29:39,720 --> 06:29:41,220
for this specific development?

4463
06:29:41,220 --> 06:29:43,970
Is that still on the table?
Are we not looking at that?

4464
06:29:46,650 --> 06:29:48,719
Yeah, going over the
highway straight across.

4465
06:29:48,719 --> 06:29:49,770
- I think it was an issue with the MTO.

4466
06:29:49,770 --> 06:29:51,118
I don't know that they would give us-

4467
06:29:51,118 --> 06:29:52,210
- So that's not a us thing.

4468
06:29:52,210 --> 06:29:55,110
- Yeah, that's not in the
near term, 10-year forecast.

4469
06:29:55,110 --> 06:29:59,190
We still have the road right
away, but there is no plans

4470
06:29:59,190 --> 06:30:03,570
and crossing an MTO is
a 400 series highway

4471
06:30:03,570 --> 06:30:04,680
is an expensive process.

4472
06:30:04,680 --> 06:30:06,210
- Okay, thank you. And my last-

4473
06:30:06,210 --> 06:30:07,920
- The roads don't line up either.

4474
06:30:07,920 --> 06:30:11,250
- Oh, okay, I've just heard
that we were considering it,

4475
06:30:11,250 --> 06:30:13,320
so I wanted to think about it.

4476
06:30:13,320 --> 06:30:15,900
The last one, I know
there's no affordable units

4477
06:30:15,900 --> 06:30:17,370
in this development.

4478
06:30:17,370 --> 06:30:21,600
I was wondering our target
is 40% throughout the year.

4479
06:30:21,600 --> 06:30:24,090
Does anyone know where we are in that 40%?

4480
06:30:24,090 --> 06:30:24,923
Have we reached it?

4481
06:30:24,923 --> 06:30:28,170
Because technically there
might be a couple more meetings

4482
06:30:28,170 --> 06:30:29,010
by the end of the year.

4483
06:30:29,010 --> 06:30:30,603
Where are we on that target?

4484
06:30:31,620 --> 06:30:32,900
- Sure. Ms. Dolch?

4485
06:30:34,080 --> 06:30:35,160
- Thank you, acting worship.

4486
06:30:35,160 --> 06:30:37,560
I'd have to look back in
the last quarterly report.

4487
06:30:37,560 --> 06:30:40,803
We do report on it, but I don't
know the exact number today.

4488
06:30:40,803 --> 06:30:44,520
(council member speaking faintly)

4489
06:30:44,520 --> 06:30:45,930
Yeah, and I don't, again, yeah,

4490
06:30:45,930 --> 06:30:48,660
but I am not sure where we are exactly.

4491
06:30:48,660 --> 06:30:49,830
- Okay, thank you, those are my questions.

4492
06:30:49,830 --> 06:30:50,880
I'll have some comments later.

4493
06:30:50,880 --> 06:30:52,260
Thank you.

4494
06:30:52,260 --> 06:30:53,953
- Okay, thanks Councillor Lococo.

4495
06:30:53,953 --> 06:30:55,230
I have Councillor Nieuwesteeg next.

4496
06:30:55,230 --> 06:30:56,951
And I'll try to get (indistinct)

4497
06:30:56,951 --> 06:30:57,784
with when he comes back in the room

4498
06:30:57,784 --> 06:30:59,580
to answer that one question.

4499
06:30:59,580 --> 06:31:02,163
- Thank you. Thank you
for your presentation.

4500
06:31:02,163 --> 06:31:03,390
A lot of my questions were already asked

4501
06:31:03,390 --> 06:31:05,373
through Councillor Lococo.

4502
06:31:06,390 --> 06:31:09,510
And one of them goes back
to the industrial piece.

4503
06:31:09,510 --> 06:31:10,770
This one's a little bit different

4504
06:31:10,770 --> 06:31:12,510
than the other industrial
ones that we've looked at,

4505
06:31:12,510 --> 06:31:14,700
and I'm very appreciative
that Arterra sat down

4506
06:31:14,700 --> 06:31:17,160
and they looked at having a
memorandum of understanding.

4507
06:31:17,160 --> 06:31:19,230
I think that's a really good factor.

4508
06:31:19,230 --> 06:31:20,910
But one piece that's unique here

4509
06:31:20,910 --> 06:31:22,740
is that we have a highway right there.

4510
06:31:22,740 --> 06:31:24,960
The highway presents a
lot of the same factors

4511
06:31:24,960 --> 06:31:29,960
that industry does in terms
of noise, vibration, odor.

4512
06:31:30,510 --> 06:31:32,280
Is that given some consideration as well?

4513
06:31:32,280 --> 06:31:35,160
Because we're focused on all
these different industrial,

4514
06:31:35,160 --> 06:31:38,580
the 19, but there's a highway
that sits right there.

4515
06:31:38,580 --> 06:31:40,620
How does that factor into this?

4516
06:31:40,620 --> 06:31:42,330
- Through the chair to the Councillor.

4517
06:31:42,330 --> 06:31:45,870
So the MTO has been
circulated on the application.

4518
06:31:45,870 --> 06:31:47,730
But in particular with respect to noise,

4519
06:31:47,730 --> 06:31:50,430
so that was actually the driving factor,

4520
06:31:50,430 --> 06:31:53,940
the highway noise for some
of the elevated noise levels.

4521
06:31:53,940 --> 06:31:56,739
It actually wasn't Arterra.

4522
06:31:56,739 --> 06:31:57,572
But in our experience

4523
06:31:57,572 --> 06:32:01,500
and from what their
acoustical engineer has stated

4524
06:32:01,500 --> 06:32:04,080
is that they're satisfied that
through building components.

4525
06:32:04,080 --> 06:32:07,170
So that might be triple
pane windows you know,

4526
06:32:07,170 --> 06:32:10,107
different building facade types,
as well as through the use

4527
06:32:10,107 --> 06:32:14,080
of air conditioners that
they'd be able to mitigate

4528
06:32:15,000 --> 06:32:15,833
those noise levels.

4529
06:32:15,833 --> 06:32:17,040
So from a noise perspective,

4530
06:32:17,040 --> 06:32:19,470
we're confident that
that's been covered off.

4531
06:32:19,470 --> 06:32:20,940
One of the items that's being addressed

4532
06:32:20,940 --> 06:32:24,750
through the holding provision
still is the quantification

4533
06:32:24,750 --> 06:32:28,020
of transportation related air pollutants.

4534
06:32:28,020 --> 06:32:29,910
And that's what the peer
reviewer had brought up

4535
06:32:29,910 --> 06:32:32,640
is that that hasn't really been done yet.

4536
06:32:32,640 --> 06:32:34,710
And so that's something that
we're going to have them

4537
06:32:34,710 --> 06:32:36,543
look into in more detail.

4538
06:32:37,860 --> 06:32:40,650
and we'll work through
that with the peer reviewer

4539
06:32:40,650 --> 06:32:42,540
as well as the applicant.

4540
06:32:42,540 --> 06:32:44,910
- Through you, a second question.

4541
06:32:44,910 --> 06:32:46,260
And I'm moving over to traffic.

4542
06:32:46,260 --> 06:32:50,190
You said the holding, the H
will be removed phase by phase.

4543
06:32:50,190 --> 06:32:51,300
So as they're doing a,

4544
06:32:51,300 --> 06:32:53,040
they're phase by phase, you
will start to remove it.

4545
06:32:53,040 --> 06:32:55,470
This is a major investment
from the developer.

4546
06:32:55,470 --> 06:32:58,170
So I'm not quite sure that
they would start developing

4547
06:32:58,170 --> 06:33:00,690
and we're going to hold in
H as they keep developing.

4548
06:33:00,690 --> 06:33:02,820
And then what if they get to phase one

4549
06:33:02,820 --> 06:33:05,790
and then we don't lift the other H.

4550
06:33:05,790 --> 06:33:07,090
What would that look like?

4551
06:33:08,070 --> 06:33:09,030
- Through to the Councillor.

4552
06:33:09,030 --> 06:33:11,370
So that might be something
that the developer

4553
06:33:11,370 --> 06:33:15,093
can comment on in terms
of that, but you know,

4554
06:33:15,930 --> 06:33:18,030
it's a potential reality
that might happen.

4555
06:33:18,030 --> 06:33:20,940
They might modify their the phases

4556
06:33:20,940 --> 06:33:23,670
in terms of how many units
they're bringing online

4557
06:33:23,670 --> 06:33:26,400
based on what can be
accommodated in the interim.

4558
06:33:26,400 --> 06:33:28,530
So we've done that.

4559
06:33:28,530 --> 06:33:31,860
We've seen that with the
region in other developments,

4560
06:33:31,860 --> 06:33:33,750
for example, in Riverfront
where, you know,

4561
06:33:33,750 --> 06:33:37,260
there's a threshold of
where maybe a traffic signal

4562
06:33:37,260 --> 06:33:39,000
would be required, et cetera.

4563
06:33:39,000 --> 06:33:40,440
So it's a little bit different context,

4564
06:33:40,440 --> 06:33:43,770
but they would be aware
and be able to model

4565
06:33:43,770 --> 06:33:45,810
kind of what those
thresholds would look like.

4566
06:33:45,810 --> 06:33:46,800
And then that's something

4567
06:33:46,800 --> 06:33:47,970
that they might be able to comment on

4568
06:33:47,970 --> 06:33:50,508
in terms of their receptiveness to that.

4569
06:33:50,508 --> 06:33:51,390
- Another question on the traffic.

4570
06:33:51,390 --> 06:33:54,210
You said something about there's
like a standard of traffic,

4571
06:33:54,210 --> 06:33:56,400
like we're not operating at the ideal.

4572
06:33:56,400 --> 06:33:58,306
What is, like, do we have a,

4573
06:33:58,306 --> 06:34:01,350
is there a standard out there
in terms of what an ideal

4574
06:34:01,350 --> 06:34:03,570
traffic system should look like?

4575
06:34:03,570 --> 06:34:05,880
So our residents have
the right expectation

4576
06:34:05,880 --> 06:34:08,550
of what that should look like
and things aren't being held?

4577
06:34:08,550 --> 06:34:10,620
- So I can give a brief overview

4578
06:34:10,620 --> 06:34:13,410
and I might ask for the
developer's consultant

4579
06:34:13,410 --> 06:34:16,350
to weigh in, but I believe
in the region's guidelines

4580
06:34:16,350 --> 06:34:18,030
for the traffic impact studies,

4581
06:34:18,030 --> 06:34:21,480
they look at a a level of service E,

4582
06:34:21,480 --> 06:34:24,990
and I believe that that's
pretty much at capacity.

4583
06:34:24,990 --> 06:34:29,233
So when you start going into
an F, then that would be,

4584
06:34:29,233 --> 06:34:32,220
you know, an alarming kind of component.

4585
06:34:32,220 --> 06:34:34,020
But so that you're kind of in the range

4586
06:34:34,020 --> 06:34:37,470
from like an A to an E, and
those would have varying levels

4587
06:34:37,470 --> 06:34:38,760
of capacity still left.

4588
06:34:38,760 --> 06:34:41,790
You might have some delays,
some acceptable delays.

4589
06:34:41,790 --> 06:34:42,690
That's about the range

4590
06:34:42,690 --> 06:34:45,390
of what I'd be able to
kind of stay on that.

4591
06:34:45,390 --> 06:34:46,920
- So where are we right now?

4592
06:34:46,920 --> 06:34:49,200
Because you're saying
we're not operating at.

4593
06:34:49,200 --> 06:34:51,573
- It's probably more at a level E.

4594
06:34:52,800 --> 06:34:56,400
And that's what they're arguing is to say

4595
06:34:56,400 --> 06:35:00,660
that that will exist
regardless of the development

4596
06:35:00,660 --> 06:35:01,860
coming online in the future

4597
06:35:01,860 --> 06:35:03,690
when they're looking at
the future total conditions

4598
06:35:03,690 --> 06:35:07,380
and that there are some
expected additional delays

4599
06:35:07,380 --> 06:35:08,463
as a result of that.

4600
06:35:09,688 --> 06:35:11,250
And I'll leave it to
their traffic consultant

4601
06:35:11,250 --> 06:35:14,670
to comment on that, in addition.

4602
06:35:14,670 --> 06:35:16,800
- And another question,
what is the current tax?

4603
06:35:16,800 --> 06:35:18,810
I'm not sure if you can answer that.

4604
06:35:18,810 --> 06:35:20,190
The tax levy that we're receiving

4605
06:35:20,190 --> 06:35:21,960
on that vacant piece
of property right now.

4606
06:35:21,960 --> 06:35:24,790
I know we had their
presentation in terms of what

4607
06:35:26,388 --> 06:35:29,138
the projected tax revenue
is, but what is it currently?

4608
06:35:30,960 --> 06:35:33,180
- [Jim] Do we have that staff?
I don't know, Ms. Clark?

4609
06:35:33,180 --> 06:35:35,613
Who would know that? Current levy?

4610
06:35:36,900 --> 06:35:40,650
- I apologize. Your worship,
I don't have that figure.

4611
06:35:40,650 --> 06:35:42,144
I'd have to look it up.

4612
06:35:42,144 --> 06:35:44,628
Or if the finance
director would look it up.

4613
06:35:44,628 --> 06:35:45,903
- Yes, the acre site.

4614
06:35:48,043 --> 06:35:49,680
(staff member speaking faintly)

4615
06:35:49,680 --> 06:35:51,755
Okay. They don't have
that at their fingertips.

4616
06:35:51,755 --> 06:35:54,600
- Okay. No, just curiosity. Okay.

4617
06:35:54,600 --> 06:35:57,007
I think I've asked all my
questions. Thank you very much.

4618
06:35:57,007 --> 06:36:00,663
- Okay. Any other questions
of council for staff?

4619
06:36:02,700 --> 06:36:05,673
Okay. All right. So we're
good. Thank you very much.

4620
06:36:11,220 --> 06:36:14,535
So members of the public
are advised that failure

4621
06:36:14,535 --> 06:36:16,305
to make an oral or written submission

4622
06:36:16,305 --> 06:36:18,623
at this public meeting could result.

4623
06:36:18,623 --> 06:36:20,103
(council member speaking faintly)

4624
06:36:20,103 --> 06:36:22,388
Yeah, I will. Okay.

4625
06:36:22,388 --> 06:36:24,139
Actually, just before I do this,

4626
06:36:24,139 --> 06:36:25,941
for anybody that may be here,

4627
06:36:25,941 --> 06:36:27,803
we've already announced it twice.

4628
06:36:27,803 --> 06:36:28,671
I'll announce it again.

4629
06:36:28,671 --> 06:36:32,366
For anyone here for the
Grassy Brook secondary plan,

4630
06:36:32,366 --> 06:36:34,141
it's been deferred.

4631
06:36:34,141 --> 06:36:38,293
It's not going to be
dealt with until November.

4632
06:36:38,293 --> 06:36:39,718
So if there's anybody here for that,

4633
06:36:39,718 --> 06:36:41,588
I don't want you having
to stick around all night

4634
06:36:41,588 --> 06:36:43,171
waiting for it.

4635
06:36:43,171 --> 06:36:46,960
We've had technical difficulties
with our computer system,

4636
06:36:46,960 --> 06:36:50,065
and it wasn't available with ample time.

4637
06:36:50,065 --> 06:36:53,335
So it will be dealt with in November.

4638
06:36:53,335 --> 06:36:56,890
So if anybody's here
for that, I apologize.

4639
06:36:56,890 --> 06:36:59,350
So now, back to this meeting,

4640
06:36:59,350 --> 06:37:01,550
members of the public
are advised that failure

4641
06:37:01,550 --> 06:37:03,207
to make an oral or written
submission at this public meeting

4642
06:37:03,207 --> 06:37:05,640
could result in the Ontario Land Tribunal

4643
06:37:05,640 --> 06:37:09,660
dismissing any referral that it receives.

4644
06:37:09,660 --> 06:37:13,380
Council will now hear from
anyone other than the applicant

4645
06:37:13,380 --> 06:37:16,260
who wishes to speak to
the proposed amendments.

4646
06:37:16,260 --> 06:37:18,310
Mr. Clerk, do we have anybody registered?

4647
06:37:19,770 --> 06:37:21,120
- Yes, Your Worship.

4648
06:37:21,120 --> 06:37:23,913
Glenny and Anthony Hines had registered.

4649
06:37:27,420 --> 06:37:29,100
- If you could just state
your name and your address,

4650
06:37:29,100 --> 06:37:32,280
and then you've got up
to five minutes, welcome.

4651
06:37:32,280 --> 06:37:36,000
- Thanks Mr. Mayor. My name's Glenn Hines

4652
06:37:36,000 --> 06:37:39,393
and I'm a owner resident
at 5100 Dorchester Road.

4653
06:37:40,710 --> 06:37:43,800
Mr. Mayor, Councillors ladies
and gentlemen, good afternoon.

4654
06:37:43,800 --> 06:37:46,350
Thanks for the opportunity
to speak this afternoon.

4655
06:37:47,340 --> 06:37:52,340
My wife and I are owners of a
condo at 5100 Dorchester Road,

4656
06:37:53,700 --> 06:37:58,050
the eight story building across
the road, across Dorchester,

4657
06:37:58,050 --> 06:38:00,570
from the proposed development.

4658
06:38:00,570 --> 06:38:03,810
Between the railway crossing
and the QEW on-ramp.

4659
06:38:03,810 --> 06:38:07,140
I speak today not as a
representative of any formal group

4660
06:38:07,140 --> 06:38:10,590
but as a concerned property
owner and on behalf of neighbors

4661
06:38:10,590 --> 06:38:13,140
who've asked me to share their views.

4662
06:38:13,140 --> 06:38:15,540
We made representation in writing

4663
06:38:15,540 --> 06:38:19,434
during last year's consultation
that Ms. Ceci spoke of,

4664
06:38:19,434 --> 06:38:22,080
and I trust that those comments
are on the official record.

4665
06:38:22,080 --> 06:38:23,640
Five minutes allows me just enough time

4666
06:38:23,640 --> 06:38:25,920
to address at a high level the concerns

4667
06:38:25,920 --> 06:38:28,920
that have not been adequately addressed

4668
06:38:28,920 --> 06:38:32,043
in the amended proposal
and the city staff report.

4669
06:38:33,030 --> 06:38:36,570
As we're aware, the
developer at 5259 Dorchester

4670
06:38:36,570 --> 06:38:39,270
proposed a significant high-rise complex

4671
06:38:39,270 --> 06:38:42,270
that necessitates a large
number of amendments

4672
06:38:42,270 --> 06:38:43,950
and variances.

4673
06:38:43,950 --> 06:38:46,230
The applicant seeks an official plan

4674
06:38:46,230 --> 06:38:47,520
and zoning by-law amendment

4675
06:38:47,520 --> 06:38:50,250
to change the designation
from major commercial

4676
06:38:50,250 --> 06:38:53,160
to residential and to rezone the land

4677
06:38:53,160 --> 06:38:56,490
from shopping center
commercial to a site-specific

4678
06:38:56,490 --> 06:39:00,540
residential 5F zone permitting buildings

4679
06:39:00,540 --> 06:39:05,540
of up to 25 stories high,
1782 units, commercial space,

4680
06:39:05,910 --> 06:39:10,410
and maintenance buildings,
240 units per hectare,

4681
06:39:10,410 --> 06:39:12,600
which is well beyond the city's official

4682
06:39:12,600 --> 06:39:15,693
current maximum density
of 150 units per hectare.

4683
06:39:16,950 --> 06:39:19,500
We first learned of this
proposal last August

4684
06:39:19,500 --> 06:39:21,810
after a fellow resident
contacted planning staff

4685
06:39:21,810 --> 06:39:24,660
and after noticing survey
activities on the grounds.

4686
06:39:24,660 --> 06:39:27,990
Adjacent industry, Arterra,
as we've already heard,

4687
06:39:27,990 --> 06:39:29,430
had been consulted.

4688
06:39:29,430 --> 06:39:32,430
However, nearby residents
had not at that time.

4689
06:39:32,430 --> 06:39:35,580
Public meetings followed
in October and December,

4690
06:39:35,580 --> 06:39:38,913
but many questions remain
unanswered at this time.

4691
06:39:40,792 --> 06:39:43,410
The 45-page staff report
was only made available

4692
06:39:43,410 --> 06:39:45,963
to the public a little over 24 hours ago.

4693
06:39:47,580 --> 06:39:50,460
Our concerns fall into
several clear categories.

4694
06:39:50,460 --> 06:39:55,230
First, traffic, the recently
released traffic study proposes

4695
06:39:55,230 --> 06:39:58,170
mitigation measures to manage
the significant increase

4696
06:39:58,170 --> 06:40:01,770
in the traffic along
Dorchester-Morrison Corridor,

4697
06:40:01,770 --> 06:40:04,350
but it does not adequately
address the increased volume

4698
06:40:04,350 --> 06:40:08,010
of traffic along the
entirety of Dorchester Road,

4699
06:40:08,010 --> 06:40:10,020
predominantly a two-lane thoroughfare

4700
06:40:10,020 --> 06:40:12,480
through residential and school areas.

4701
06:40:12,480 --> 06:40:14,580
At the Dorchester-Dawson intersection,

4702
06:40:14,580 --> 06:40:17,580
there's three southbound and a turn lane

4703
06:40:17,580 --> 06:40:19,980
and two northbound and a turn lane.

4704
06:40:19,980 --> 06:40:24,840
However, this wide piece of
sectional corridor only exists

4705
06:40:24,840 --> 06:40:27,960
between Morrison and
Frederica Royal Manor.

4706
06:40:27,960 --> 06:40:30,690
The rest of Dorchester is a two-lane

4707
06:40:30,690 --> 06:40:31,953
residential thoroughfare.

4708
06:40:33,300 --> 06:40:35,100
It does not appear that traffic studies

4709
06:40:35,100 --> 06:40:37,560
account for the rest of Morrison

4710
06:40:37,560 --> 06:40:39,480
and all of the other
traffic in the neighborhood

4711
06:40:39,480 --> 06:40:41,100
that is generated.

4712
06:40:41,100 --> 06:40:43,560
Residential density along
Dorchester has increased

4713
06:40:43,560 --> 06:40:46,440
over the past few years with
the addition of apartments,

4714
06:40:46,440 --> 06:40:49,380
townhouses, and garden homes
without any noticeable measures

4715
06:40:49,380 --> 06:40:50,763
to improve traffic flow.

4716
06:40:51,780 --> 06:40:54,660
The staff recommended the
removal of the holding provision

4717
06:40:54,660 --> 06:40:57,480
required an updated traffic impact study

4718
06:40:57,480 --> 06:40:59,640
on a phase by phase basis.

4719
06:40:59,640 --> 06:41:03,000
It may be supportable if the
phases are adequately defined,

4720
06:41:03,000 --> 06:41:05,400
but we don't know what phases are.

4721
06:41:05,400 --> 06:41:07,590
And if the city commits
to acceptable incremental

4722
06:41:07,590 --> 06:41:10,473
traffic mitigation measures
in a timely manner.

4723
06:41:11,550 --> 06:41:13,140
No phase should be allowed to progress

4724
06:41:13,140 --> 06:41:15,090
without mitigation measures underway

4725
06:41:15,090 --> 06:41:17,403
addressing the previous phase's impact.

4726
06:41:19,590 --> 06:41:21,900
As identified in last year's consultation,

4727
06:41:21,900 --> 06:41:24,720
there's only a single entry
and exit point on Dawson.

4728
06:41:24,720 --> 06:41:28,140
The proposed emergency
access that was brought out

4729
06:41:28,140 --> 06:41:30,870
in the amendment is
acknowledged and appreciated.

4730
06:41:30,870 --> 06:41:34,660
However, as noted, it's
contingent on the MOT approving

4731
06:41:35,820 --> 06:41:38,940
the access point that
close to the on-ramp.

4732
06:41:38,940 --> 06:41:41,490
For obvious reasons,
it's highly recommended

4733
06:41:41,490 --> 06:41:44,010
that no residential development
of the site be approved

4734
06:41:44,010 --> 06:41:47,220
until the MTO has granted this approval

4735
06:41:47,220 --> 06:41:50,433
or a second means of entry
and egress is identified.

4736
06:41:51,930 --> 06:41:54,060
We've already heard about
noise and quality of life.

4737
06:41:54,060 --> 06:41:56,400
Residents already
experience significant noise

4738
06:41:56,400 --> 06:41:59,790
from the QEW Highway
420 and Dorchester Road,

4739
06:41:59,790 --> 06:42:02,100
particularly on summer weekends.

4740
06:42:02,100 --> 06:42:04,230
Adding more than a
thousand vehicles to this

4741
06:42:04,230 --> 06:42:07,983
will intensify the
impact on existing homes.

4742
06:42:09,390 --> 06:42:11,400
One thing that doesn't show up

4743
06:42:11,400 --> 06:42:16,400
in the developer's proposal is utilities.

4744
06:42:19,920 --> 06:42:24,750
When it comes to hydro and communications,

4745
06:42:24,750 --> 06:42:27,870
the area already experiences
frequent hydro interruptions.

4746
06:42:27,870 --> 06:42:30,330
Any approval should
require clear commitments

4747
06:42:30,330 --> 06:42:35,330
from the relevant utilities
that capacity exists

4748
06:42:35,580 --> 06:42:38,610
to serve the additional load
without degrading service

4749
06:42:38,610 --> 06:42:39,843
for current residents.

4750
06:42:41,400 --> 06:42:43,200
Construction impacts.

4751
06:42:43,200 --> 06:42:47,700
Two levels of underground
parking have been proposed.

4752
06:42:47,700 --> 06:42:49,800
They may require substantial excavation

4753
06:42:49,800 --> 06:42:52,080
and possibly even blasting.

4754
06:42:52,080 --> 06:42:53,880
And we ask for specific assurances

4755
06:42:53,880 --> 06:42:56,790
that neighboring foundations
and underground structures,

4756
06:42:56,790 --> 06:42:59,130
including those at 5100 Dorchester,

4757
06:42:59,130 --> 06:43:01,530
will be protected and that monitoring

4758
06:43:01,530 --> 06:43:03,783
and mitigation measures
will be put in place.

4759
06:43:05,610 --> 06:43:07,230
Snow management and wind.

4760
06:43:07,230 --> 06:43:09,360
We've heard a little bit about the wind.

4761
06:43:09,360 --> 06:43:11,310
The snow clearance from the site

4762
06:43:11,310 --> 06:43:12,690
and the Dawson Street extension

4763
06:43:12,690 --> 06:43:15,930
must not spill into the
municipal rights of way.

4764
06:43:15,930 --> 06:43:18,240
Wind effects on drifting
and the accumulation

4765
06:43:18,240 --> 06:43:21,270
around the site also need
to be considered properly.

4766
06:43:21,270 --> 06:43:23,490
They were treated very lightly
in the supporting studies

4767
06:43:23,490 --> 06:43:24,723
and in the staff report.

4768
06:43:26,460 --> 06:43:29,370
That brings me to project
delivery and risk.

4769
06:43:29,370 --> 06:43:32,220
Developments of this
size carry a real risk

4770
06:43:32,220 --> 06:43:34,230
of delay or abandonment.

4771
06:43:34,230 --> 06:43:37,800
The request to suspend
the normal sunset clause

4772
06:43:37,800 --> 06:43:38,700
is concerning.

4773
06:43:38,700 --> 06:43:41,460
And if the proponent is
confident in the proposal,

4774
06:43:41,460 --> 06:43:44,040
a clear and enforceable
completion timeline

4775
06:43:44,040 --> 06:43:46,050
should be put in place.

4776
06:43:46,050 --> 06:43:49,260
Incomplete or stalled projects
become long-term blights

4777
06:43:49,260 --> 06:43:50,340
on a community.

4778
06:43:50,340 --> 06:43:52,020
We've seen it elsewhere in the city,

4779
06:43:52,020 --> 06:43:55,110
particularly Stanley
Avenue and in Chippawa.

4780
06:43:55,110 --> 06:43:59,160
One only has to look at 6705 Cropp Street,

4781
06:43:59,160 --> 06:44:02,040
right on our back door to see what happens

4782
06:44:02,040 --> 06:44:04,623
when a site is not completed
in a timely manner.

4783
06:44:06,630 --> 06:44:09,540
The staff recommendation to
invoke a phase sunset clause

4784
06:44:09,540 --> 06:44:12,780
is noted with phase one
being subject to a three year

4785
06:44:12,780 --> 06:44:16,770
execution timeframe with a
possible one year extension.

4786
06:44:16,770 --> 06:44:21,390
However, nowhere in the
report are phases defined.

4787
06:44:21,390 --> 06:44:23,580
In fact, the word phase is used 19 times

4788
06:44:23,580 --> 06:44:24,960
in the staff report,

4789
06:44:24,960 --> 06:44:28,200
17 of which pertain to
construction phases.

4790
06:44:28,200 --> 06:44:30,030
Given the variety of activities,

4791
06:44:30,030 --> 06:44:32,550
including traffic improvements
and other approvals

4792
06:44:32,550 --> 06:44:35,580
that depend on phases,
as we've heard today,

4793
06:44:35,580 --> 06:44:37,107
it's requested that these be spelled out

4794
06:44:37,107 --> 06:44:40,980
and the developer be required
to perform within them

4795
06:44:40,980 --> 06:44:43,983
inside that 10 year forecast
construction timeline.

4796
06:44:45,360 --> 06:44:47,610
Beyond these site specific issues,

4797
06:44:47,610 --> 06:44:49,860
locating a high density
residential complex

4798
06:44:49,860 --> 06:44:51,930
at the intersection of two major highways

4799
06:44:51,930 --> 06:44:54,690
raises legitimate questions
about air quality,

4800
06:44:54,690 --> 06:44:57,183
noise exposure for future residents.

4801
06:44:58,170 --> 06:45:01,680
The application itself notes
that mitigation measures

4802
06:45:01,680 --> 06:45:03,060
will be required.

4803
06:45:03,060 --> 06:45:05,880
These factors deserve thorough assessment

4804
06:45:05,880 --> 06:45:07,650
and a commitment by the developer

4805
06:45:07,650 --> 06:45:09,630
before any decision is made.

4806
06:45:09,630 --> 06:45:10,920
I want to be clear.

4807
06:45:10,920 --> 06:45:14,370
Most of us are not opposed to
the redevelopment of the site.

4808
06:45:14,370 --> 06:45:17,700
We support efforts to increase and improve

4809
06:45:17,700 --> 06:45:20,430
the housing supply in Niagara Falls.

4810
06:45:20,430 --> 06:45:22,440
What we ask is that
the legitimate concerns

4811
06:45:22,440 --> 06:45:25,380
of existing residents and
owners be given proper weight

4812
06:45:25,380 --> 06:45:28,320
and that any approval
be conditional on clear

4813
06:45:28,320 --> 06:45:30,570
and forcible solutions to the issues

4814
06:45:30,570 --> 06:45:33,090
that have been raised
in earlier consultations

4815
06:45:33,090 --> 06:45:34,530
and again today.

4816
06:45:34,530 --> 06:45:37,320
A more modest proposal
that respects the scale

4817
06:45:37,320 --> 06:45:39,300
of the surrounding area and addresses

4818
06:45:39,300 --> 06:45:42,090
these practical concerns
would be most welcome.

4819
06:45:42,090 --> 06:45:44,310
Mr. Mayor, Councillors, thank
you very much for your time.

4820
06:45:44,310 --> 06:45:45,510
- Thank you, just before you leave,

4821
06:45:45,510 --> 06:45:47,103
any questions for Mr. Hines?

4822
06:45:48,480 --> 06:45:50,330
Okay. No, we're good. Thank you very much.

4823
06:45:50,330 --> 06:45:51,163
- Thank you.

4824
06:45:51,163 --> 06:45:52,740
- Is there anyone else
other than the applicant

4825
06:45:52,740 --> 06:45:55,353
who wishes to address
council on this matter?

4826
06:45:57,360 --> 06:45:59,130
Okay, seeing none,

4827
06:45:59,130 --> 06:46:03,000
Councillor Nieuwesteeg we did
get an answer from Ms. Clark

4828
06:46:03,000 --> 06:46:04,920
on the property taxes,

4829
06:46:04,920 --> 06:46:08,400
on that property currently
as it sits vacant.

4830
06:46:08,400 --> 06:46:10,410
- Yeah, sorry through Mr.
Mayor when I walked in,

4831
06:46:10,410 --> 06:46:12,120
I wasn't sure what property
we were talking about,

4832
06:46:12,120 --> 06:46:14,340
but at 5259 Dorchester,

4833
06:46:14,340 --> 06:46:17,610
they're currently 220,000 for total taxes.

4834
06:46:17,610 --> 06:46:19,833
So region, city and province.

4835
06:46:20,935 --> 06:46:24,390
- [Ruth-Ann] And our city
then is what, 37% of that?

4836
06:46:24,390 --> 06:46:27,480
- Yeah, our city portion
would be about 37% of that,

4837
06:46:27,480 --> 06:46:30,406
which is about 81,000.

4838
06:46:30,406 --> 06:46:32,273
- Thank you.

4839
06:46:32,273 --> 06:46:35,070
- Okay, thank you. Did you
want to speak to this proposal?

4840
06:46:35,070 --> 06:46:36,480
Okay, yeah, if you'd want to come forward,

4841
06:46:36,480 --> 06:46:39,813
state your name address,
and up to five minutes.

4842
06:46:41,880 --> 06:46:43,740
- Aras Raci, resident of Niagara Falls.

4843
06:46:43,740 --> 06:46:45,450
As you know, I come to
all the council meetings,

4844
06:46:45,450 --> 06:46:48,450
so I have a benefit of seeing
a lot of conversations,

4845
06:46:48,450 --> 06:46:52,380
and I actively lobby on behalf
of millennials and Gen Z.

4846
06:46:52,380 --> 06:46:54,090
Housing affordable, it is significantly,

4847
06:46:54,090 --> 06:46:56,310
it's a big issue in this city.

4848
06:46:56,310 --> 06:46:58,590
And as you know, 20 years ago,
if you want to buy a house,

4849
06:46:58,590 --> 06:47:00,090
you could work for a year
or two and save money

4850
06:47:00,090 --> 06:47:01,620
and have that down payment.

4851
06:47:01,620 --> 06:47:04,650
But right now, you need to save work

4852
06:47:04,650 --> 06:47:06,900
and save for multiple, multiple years,

4853
06:47:06,900 --> 06:47:08,940
and at the end you have to
go to Bank of Mom and Dad

4854
06:47:08,940 --> 06:47:11,040
to be able to help you
to put the down payment.

4855
06:47:11,040 --> 06:47:13,410
What I like about this
particular proposal project

4856
06:47:13,410 --> 06:47:16,500
is that it's a purposeful rental.

4857
06:47:16,500 --> 06:47:19,950
I mean, we all hope for ownership,

4858
06:47:19,950 --> 06:47:22,276
but unfortunately, I
think if we don't have it.

4859
06:47:22,276 --> 06:47:26,640
The next best thing will
be residential rental.

4860
06:47:26,640 --> 06:47:30,330
And this proposal technically

4861
06:47:30,330 --> 06:47:31,620
could be a commercial property,

4862
06:47:31,620 --> 06:47:34,890
so they could create significantly
more noise and hassle

4863
06:47:34,890 --> 06:47:35,723
for the neighborhood.

4864
06:47:35,723 --> 06:47:38,040
So at least it will be residential.

4865
06:47:38,040 --> 06:47:41,370
But also, just want to
briefly mention something

4866
06:47:41,370 --> 06:47:43,050
that this morning we had a conversation

4867
06:47:43,050 --> 06:47:44,060
about housing affordability.

4868
06:47:44,060 --> 06:47:46,590
We had that city gives away the land.

4869
06:47:46,590 --> 06:47:50,400
So some organization comes build 80 houses

4870
06:47:50,400 --> 06:47:52,530
for some one who lives
out in the bright side.

4871
06:47:52,530 --> 06:47:56,010
But if this proposal goes on
multiple phases, you know,

4872
06:47:56,010 --> 06:47:58,680
first one's hundred, 200, 300, 400,

4873
06:47:58,680 --> 06:48:01,920
each tower basically built,
I think significant number

4874
06:48:01,920 --> 06:48:03,960
of housing will be supplied to our city,

4875
06:48:03,960 --> 06:48:05,580
and it's not going to cost taxpayers.

4876
06:48:05,580 --> 06:48:07,350
The burden is not on a taxpayers

4877
06:48:07,350 --> 06:48:09,840
and city's not giving
away the land that it has,

4878
06:48:09,840 --> 06:48:11,550
to some organization with the promise

4879
06:48:11,550 --> 06:48:13,740
of I'm going to build something.

4880
06:48:13,740 --> 06:48:16,350
And finally, I wanted to
say that I have my tax bill

4881
06:48:16,350 --> 06:48:20,730
with me, and here it shows
that 50% of the taxes

4882
06:48:20,730 --> 06:48:22,350
that we are paying, because people see

4883
06:48:22,350 --> 06:48:24,510
the City of Niagara Falls as invoice comes

4884
06:48:24,510 --> 06:48:26,370
as City of Niagara Falls.

4885
06:48:26,370 --> 06:48:28,710
And even my neighbors go,
"I'm paying the taxes."

4886
06:48:28,710 --> 06:48:33,630
But the reality is 54% is regional taxes.

4887
06:48:33,630 --> 06:48:38,630
9% are education, only 37%
is the City of Niagara Falls.

4888
06:48:38,820 --> 06:48:42,120
Only 37% are decided in this room.

4889
06:48:42,120 --> 06:48:43,680
And out of that 37%,

4890
06:48:43,680 --> 06:48:46,230
significant portion of it is fixed costs.

4891
06:48:46,230 --> 06:48:47,220
So we can't change it.

4892
06:48:47,220 --> 06:48:49,290
And I've seen all these council meetings.

4893
06:48:49,290 --> 06:48:52,080
Everybody comes here.
My taxes is too much.

4894
06:48:52,080 --> 06:48:53,490
Services that I want to use,

4895
06:48:53,490 --> 06:48:54,840
you don't want to spend
enough money in it.

4896
06:48:54,840 --> 06:48:58,050
And the services that I
don't use cut them out.

4897
06:48:58,050 --> 06:49:01,447
So I don't envy the position
of the council to saying that,

4898
06:49:01,447 --> 06:49:04,590
you know, it's not an
easy decision to make.

4899
06:49:04,590 --> 06:49:06,360
But I wanted to bring this up

4900
06:49:06,360 --> 06:49:08,880
because as our CAO this morning mentioned,

4901
06:49:08,880 --> 06:49:11,760
you either had to cut your
cost or increase your revenues.

4902
06:49:11,760 --> 06:49:14,730
And just imagine if you have
these thousand rental incomes,

4903
06:49:14,730 --> 06:49:18,330
the property tax on top of
that will be significant.

4904
06:49:18,330 --> 06:49:20,190
And I know I'm interested about housing

4905
06:49:20,190 --> 06:49:22,410
for younger millennials and Gen Z,

4906
06:49:22,410 --> 06:49:24,060
but intensification.

4907
06:49:24,060 --> 06:49:25,530
I understand make local neighbor

4908
06:49:25,530 --> 06:49:27,630
who's maybe not have a concern about it.

4909
06:49:27,630 --> 06:49:28,830
I totally get it.

4910
06:49:28,830 --> 06:49:30,297
But I've been come to all council meeting

4911
06:49:30,297 --> 06:49:32,850
and see that houses being built at places

4912
06:49:32,850 --> 06:49:36,450
right next to residential,
right next to single stories.

4913
06:49:36,450 --> 06:49:39,870
But as part of the official new
plan, when these rapid buses

4914
06:49:39,870 --> 06:49:42,600
that are going on that street,
this is going to be great

4915
06:49:42,600 --> 06:49:44,130
for millennial and Gen Z.

4916
06:49:44,130 --> 06:49:47,760
This is going to be great in
terms of income for our city.

4917
06:49:47,760 --> 06:49:52,760
Because again, either we have
to expand our urban boundary,

4918
06:49:52,770 --> 06:49:55,920
which is significantly cost,
or right next to highway.

4919
06:49:55,920 --> 06:49:57,540
Again, I understand the traffic issues.

4920
06:49:57,540 --> 06:50:00,030
I live around that
neighborhood. I know it.

4921
06:50:00,030 --> 06:50:02,730
But the people who are buying
these kind of properties,

4922
06:50:02,730 --> 06:50:04,590
they have access to transport

4923
06:50:04,590 --> 06:50:07,440
so they can get into the
highway and go to the jobs.

4924
06:50:07,440 --> 06:50:11,880
So that just sums up my
interest in this projects

4925
06:50:11,880 --> 06:50:16,880
in behalf of younger people
who definitely need rental.

4926
06:50:17,280 --> 06:50:20,393
And I will wish all the best
for the proposal for developers

4927
06:50:20,393 --> 06:50:22,350
because again, a lot of projects,

4928
06:50:22,350 --> 06:50:24,510
they do their best and they
never get off the ground.

4929
06:50:24,510 --> 06:50:27,570
But nonetheless, I wanted
to mention that I think

4930
06:50:27,570 --> 06:50:30,987
this is a great rental project
for younger generation.

4931
06:50:30,987 --> 06:50:32,132
Thank you very much.

4932
06:50:32,132 --> 06:50:34,470
- Thank you. Thank you very much.

4933
06:50:34,470 --> 06:50:36,450
Is there anyone else
other than the applicant

4934
06:50:36,450 --> 06:50:37,950
who wishes to address council?

4935
06:50:39,270 --> 06:50:41,270
Okay, yep, if you'd like to come forward

4936
06:50:42,270 --> 06:50:44,610
and state your name and your address,

4937
06:50:44,610 --> 06:50:46,140
and up to five minutes.

4938
06:50:46,140 --> 06:50:47,730
- Good afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Worship.

4939
06:50:47,730 --> 06:50:51,870
My name's Roderick McCray. I
live at 6822 Keefer Street.

4940
06:50:51,870 --> 06:50:54,540
I did email some comments
to Ms. Ceci last week,

4941
06:50:54,540 --> 06:50:57,570
but I just wanted to
comment on a couple things

4942
06:50:57,570 --> 06:50:58,680
that were brought up.

4943
06:50:58,680 --> 06:51:01,293
Specifically water, stormwater drainage.

4944
06:51:02,850 --> 06:51:04,740
I know that it was mentioned that the area

4945
06:51:04,740 --> 06:51:06,480
is operating at capacity,

4946
06:51:06,480 --> 06:51:08,427
but I want to point out the
north end of Niagara Falls

4947
06:51:08,427 --> 06:51:11,250
and Niagara region is
operating within capacity.

4948
06:51:11,250 --> 06:51:13,890
And look what happened a couple weeks ago.

4949
06:51:13,890 --> 06:51:16,320
Climate change is real. It's happening.

4950
06:51:16,320 --> 06:51:18,630
Storms like that are
going to happen more often

4951
06:51:18,630 --> 06:51:20,520
and with more intensity.

4952
06:51:20,520 --> 06:51:23,040
And I feel like any new projects

4953
06:51:23,040 --> 06:51:25,923
should have an increase
in capacity to plan ahead.

4954
06:51:26,970 --> 06:51:30,390
And another question, concern that I have

4955
06:51:30,390 --> 06:51:33,870
that I didn't see addressed
was no matter what happens

4956
06:51:33,870 --> 06:51:37,740
with the site, what will be
put in place for the rodents

4957
06:51:37,740 --> 06:51:39,510
that live in that field.

4958
06:51:39,510 --> 06:51:43,200
I walk my dog along
Dorchester Road quite often,

4959
06:51:43,200 --> 06:51:46,350
and I see rats going in and
out of that field all the time.

4960
06:51:46,350 --> 06:51:47,580
As soon as construction starts,

4961
06:51:47,580 --> 06:51:50,400
they're going to start
migrating into the neighborhood.

4962
06:51:50,400 --> 06:51:51,493
And I would like to know

4963
06:51:51,493 --> 06:51:54,420
if there's going to be a plan for that.

4964
06:51:54,420 --> 06:51:56,070
- [Jim] Okay, when we get the applicant,

4965
06:51:56,070 --> 06:51:57,810
we can ask that question.

4966
06:51:57,810 --> 06:51:58,980
- Okay.
- [Jim] Thank you.

4967
06:51:58,980 --> 06:51:59,813
- Thank you.

4968
06:51:59,813 --> 06:52:02,130
- Thank you. Did I see another hand?

4969
06:52:02,130 --> 06:52:06,303
Yeah, if you'd like to come
forward. Just state your name.

4970
06:52:08,220 --> 06:52:09,360
Just state your name and your address,

4971
06:52:09,360 --> 06:52:10,773
and up to five minutes.

4972
06:52:12,540 --> 06:52:15,930
- It's Joan McDougall. I
live at 5100 Dorchester Road.

4973
06:52:15,930 --> 06:52:17,160
- [Jim] What was the last name? I'm sorry.

4974
06:52:17,160 --> 06:52:18,305
- McDougall.

4975
06:52:18,305 --> 06:52:19,396
- [Jim] Okay. McDougall. Thank you.

4976
06:52:19,396 --> 06:52:21,630
- I just wanted to
address what he had to say

4977
06:52:21,630 --> 06:52:24,240
about the rentals being
for the younger people,

4978
06:52:24,240 --> 06:52:25,830
millennials and such.

4979
06:52:25,830 --> 06:52:27,420
And when it had said that the rentals

4980
06:52:27,420 --> 06:52:29,400
would be for high income,

4981
06:52:29,400 --> 06:52:32,100
I don't believe that the people
that would be living there

4982
06:52:32,100 --> 06:52:36,840
would be of younger generation
given our employment

4983
06:52:36,840 --> 06:52:39,510
and what people make in this area.

4984
06:52:39,510 --> 06:52:43,647
I'm 58 years old and I don't have a job.

4985
06:52:43,647 --> 06:52:46,080
And given that the income for here

4986
06:52:46,080 --> 06:52:49,350
is generally minimal wage, minimum wage,

4987
06:52:49,350 --> 06:52:50,940
I don't think that's the people

4988
06:52:50,940 --> 06:52:52,980
that would be living in those rentals.

4989
06:52:52,980 --> 06:52:56,760
So I don't think you're
correct in that assumption.

4990
06:52:56,760 --> 06:52:58,410
- [Jim] Well, if you just
direct your comments this way.

4991
06:52:58,410 --> 06:53:00,990
- I just wanted to, in regarding that.

4992
06:53:00,990 --> 06:53:04,890
And I'm just very
disappointed in the extent

4993
06:53:04,890 --> 06:53:08,940
of what those buildings are
going to be at that height.

4994
06:53:08,940 --> 06:53:12,930
I just worry about that I
don't think the city's equipped

4995
06:53:12,930 --> 06:53:16,341
to maintain for fire departments at that.

4996
06:53:16,341 --> 06:53:18,810
And I hope that this council will address

4997
06:53:18,810 --> 06:53:20,910
additional fire departments given,

4998
06:53:20,910 --> 06:53:23,130
I know this isn't what we're
discussing at this point,

4999
06:53:23,130 --> 06:53:25,740
but given all the building
that is being maintained

5000
06:53:25,740 --> 06:53:26,940
in this city, thank you.

5001
06:53:26,940 --> 06:53:28,689
- [Jim] Okay. Thank you very much.

5002
06:53:28,689 --> 06:53:29,642
(object crashes)

5003
06:53:29,642 --> 06:53:30,720
- [Joan] Sorry.

5004
06:53:30,720 --> 06:53:32,160
- Is there anybody else other than that?

5005
06:53:32,160 --> 06:53:33,960
Yeah, if you'd like to come forward.

5006
06:53:37,830 --> 06:53:40,710
Again, just state your,
your name, your address.

5007
06:53:40,710 --> 06:53:41,820
Up to five minutes.

5008
06:53:41,820 --> 06:53:43,683
- [Audience Member] Good that
you have built that building.

5009
06:53:43,683 --> 06:53:46,860
- Yeah, I know. My name's Mark Primorano.

5010
06:53:46,860 --> 06:53:48,690
I own the plaza right across the street

5011
06:53:48,690 --> 06:53:52,110
from the development, 6843 Dawson Street.

5012
06:53:52,110 --> 06:53:54,360
I have three tenants in the building.

5013
06:53:54,360 --> 06:53:55,920
I have a restaurant, a hair salon,

5014
06:53:55,920 --> 06:54:00,540
and actually a cash money
store where you go to an office

5015
06:54:00,540 --> 06:54:02,253
to talk about lending money.

5016
06:54:03,240 --> 06:54:07,560
I think this is going to
help tremendously my tenants.

5017
06:54:07,560 --> 06:54:09,240
As you know, the economy's not great

5018
06:54:09,240 --> 06:54:11,910
and a lot of people aren't
going out that much for dinners

5019
06:54:11,910 --> 06:54:16,500
and different things, but you
know, for my tenant situation

5020
06:54:16,500 --> 06:54:19,713
I think they'll be really happy
once the building is built.

5021
06:54:20,940 --> 06:54:23,610
And I support the development.

5022
06:54:23,610 --> 06:54:26,010
I think it'll help Niagara a lot

5023
06:54:26,010 --> 06:54:28,383
to have this type of style and look.

5024
06:54:29,592 --> 06:54:30,425
I'm also a realtor,

5025
06:54:30,425 --> 06:54:33,090
so I know a lot about
different developments.

5026
06:54:33,090 --> 06:54:34,620
I think it's going to enhance the city,

5027
06:54:34,620 --> 06:54:37,860
but good question about
how much is paying now

5028
06:54:37,860 --> 06:54:41,010
on vacant land tax
versus when this is done.

5029
06:54:41,010 --> 06:54:42,660
I'd like to hear that answer tonight.

5030
06:54:42,660 --> 06:54:44,970
If you can bring that
up, that would be awesome

5031
06:54:44,970 --> 06:54:46,980
because I think this will help the city

5032
06:54:46,980 --> 06:54:48,723
a lot financially too.

5033
06:54:49,620 --> 06:54:50,453
That's it.

5034
06:54:50,453 --> 06:54:52,920
- Thank you. Yeah, maybe
staff can work on that number.

5035
06:54:52,920 --> 06:54:54,900
I don't know what the
property taxes may be

5036
06:54:54,900 --> 06:54:56,130
once it's developed out.

5037
06:54:56,130 --> 06:54:57,990
- [Staff Member] A range. It's in there.

5038
06:54:57,990 --> 06:55:00,510
- It's in there. What was the number?

5039
06:55:00,510 --> 06:55:02,880
- So through you Mr. Mayor, in
the applicant's presentation,

5040
06:55:02,880 --> 06:55:06,060
I noticed in slide 15 the estimated taxes

5041
06:55:06,060 --> 06:55:07,740
said they would be 5.5 million.

5042
06:55:07,740 --> 06:55:09,600
I'm not sure how they calculate that,

5043
06:55:09,600 --> 06:55:11,490
but I'm assuming that's total taxes.

5044
06:55:11,490 --> 06:55:14,863
So the city's portion would
be approximately two million.

5045
06:55:14,863 --> 06:55:17,430
- Okay. Factor of 10.
Okay, thank you for that.

5046
06:55:17,430 --> 06:55:21,003
Is there anyone else who
wished to address council?

5047
06:55:21,870 --> 06:55:25,500
Okay, seeing none, we'll
now hear from the applicant

5048
06:55:25,500 --> 06:55:27,663
or his or her representative.

5049
06:55:48,390 --> 06:55:51,600
- Good afternoon, Your
Worship members of council.

5050
06:55:51,600 --> 06:55:53,370
My name's Rocky Vacca, for the record,

5051
06:55:53,370 --> 06:55:56,280
partner at Sullivan
Mahoney, appearing on behalf

5052
06:55:56,280 --> 06:56:00,240
of the applicant and its
principal, Angelo Butera Sr.

5053
06:56:00,240 --> 06:56:02,610
With me, I have Michael Allen,

5054
06:56:02,610 --> 06:56:05,580
project architect from ACK Architects,

5055
06:56:05,580 --> 06:56:07,380
Nicholas Godfrey and Barb Weens,

5056
06:56:07,380 --> 06:56:09,000
from Upper Canada Consultants.

5057
06:56:09,000 --> 06:56:11,250
They are the planning consultants.

5058
06:56:11,250 --> 06:56:15,360
And Greg Louie from Paradigm,
who is the traffic consultant

5059
06:56:15,360 --> 06:56:18,180
who is available to address any questions.

5060
06:56:18,180 --> 06:56:20,460
Just to give you a roadmap
of our presentation,

5061
06:56:20,460 --> 06:56:23,400
I will be providing
some preliminary remarks

5062
06:56:23,400 --> 06:56:25,050
followed by Nicholas and Barb,

5063
06:56:25,050 --> 06:56:28,110
who will review the planning
merits of the application

5064
06:56:28,110 --> 06:56:31,050
and address the comments in opposition.

5065
06:56:31,050 --> 06:56:33,480
Then followed by Michael,
who will provide an overview

5066
06:56:33,480 --> 06:56:36,027
of the architectural
design of the project.

5067
06:56:36,027 --> 06:56:38,730
And then I'll be back to review
the financial implications

5068
06:56:38,730 --> 06:56:39,680
of the development.

5069
06:56:42,300 --> 06:56:43,950
Sorry.

5070
06:56:43,950 --> 06:56:44,950
- [Jim] Rocky smile.

5071
06:56:47,339 --> 06:56:50,940
(audience chuckles)

5072
06:56:50,940 --> 06:56:52,556
- Got it?

5073
06:56:52,556 --> 06:56:55,100
(audience chuckles)

5074
06:56:55,100 --> 06:56:56,910
- [Jim] It's only Rocky, you
guys don't have to worry.

5075
06:56:56,910 --> 06:56:57,813
It's only Rocky.

5076
06:56:58,856 --> 06:57:00,390
(audience chuckles)

5077
06:57:00,390 --> 06:57:02,460
- Finally, I'll be available
to answer any questions

5078
06:57:02,460 --> 06:57:04,530
arising from the presentation.

5079
06:57:04,530 --> 06:57:05,670
To begin, the applicant

5080
06:57:05,670 --> 06:57:08,640
is part of the Panoramic
Properties Group of Companies,

5081
06:57:08,640 --> 06:57:11,130
led by Angelo Butera Sr.

5082
06:57:11,130 --> 06:57:13,770
Panoramic Properties is a
privately owned Canadian

5083
06:57:13,770 --> 06:57:16,410
real estate and property
management company.

5084
06:57:16,410 --> 06:57:18,900
Specializing in residential housing

5085
06:57:18,900 --> 06:57:21,180
with a significant presence in Ontario,

5086
06:57:21,180 --> 06:57:23,700
Quebec, and Nova Scotia.

5087
06:57:23,700 --> 06:57:26,730
Founded in 1985 by Angelo Butera Sr.

5088
06:57:26,730 --> 06:57:29,130
it has grown into one
of the larger private

5089
06:57:29,130 --> 06:57:31,800
residential landlords in all of Canada.

5090
06:57:31,800 --> 06:57:36,800
With over 13,500 purpose-built
residential rental units.

5091
06:57:38,280 --> 06:57:40,620
Currently, it is in the
process of constructing

5092
06:57:40,620 --> 06:57:44,820
five towers in Sudbury,
totaling 1,100 units,

5093
06:57:44,820 --> 06:57:48,690
a six-story tower in Elmira with 76 units.

5094
06:57:48,690 --> 06:57:50,520
And it's ready to begin construction

5095
06:57:50,520 --> 06:57:54,210
on two 14-story towers
at Kalar and McLeod Road,

5096
06:57:54,210 --> 06:57:58,920
which this council approved,
consisting of 450 units.

5097
06:57:58,920 --> 06:58:01,110
The company's head office
is in Niagara Falls

5098
06:58:01,110 --> 06:58:03,030
in the Montrose Business Park,

5099
06:58:03,030 --> 06:58:05,613
and it currently employs over 700 people.

5100
06:58:06,540 --> 06:58:09,120
I'm giving you this background
because often I hear

5101
06:58:09,120 --> 06:58:12,900
that developers get
approvals but don't build.

5102
06:58:12,900 --> 06:58:15,900
Mr. Butera is not one of those developers.

5103
06:58:15,900 --> 06:58:18,420
He gets approvals and he builds.

5104
06:58:18,420 --> 06:58:20,973
His track record speaks for itself.

5105
06:58:21,990 --> 06:58:23,910
The proposed development of nine buildings

5106
06:58:23,910 --> 06:58:28,500
totaling 1,782 units will
be the largest project

5107
06:58:28,500 --> 06:58:30,360
Panoramic has ever done.

5108
06:58:30,360 --> 06:58:32,670
It has extra meaning to the Butera family

5109
06:58:32,670 --> 06:58:34,953
to complete this project
in their hometown.

5110
06:58:36,120 --> 06:58:38,910
Now, this project has gone
through a long and winding road

5111
06:58:38,910 --> 06:58:40,950
over the past two years.

5112
06:58:40,950 --> 06:58:43,407
I would be remiss if I
didn't thank city staff

5113
06:58:43,407 --> 06:58:47,160
and the public for traveling
with us along that road

5114
06:58:47,160 --> 06:58:49,290
and challenging us to address

5115
06:58:49,290 --> 06:58:51,690
all public comments and concerns.

5116
06:58:51,690 --> 06:58:53,643
I sincerely believe we have done so.

5117
06:58:55,206 --> 06:58:58,140
I'd like to give special
thanks to Mayor Diodati,

5118
06:58:58,140 --> 06:59:00,750
for helping us to facilitate discussions

5119
06:59:00,750 --> 06:59:03,180
with our neighbors at Arterra Wines.

5120
06:59:03,180 --> 06:59:06,900
Those discussions led to
substantial changes to the project

5121
06:59:06,900 --> 06:59:11,190
over the past couple of months
to address Arterra's concerns

5122
06:59:11,190 --> 06:59:13,440
and receive Arterra's blessing.

5123
06:59:13,440 --> 06:59:16,440
And I know there was some
comments about what impact

5124
06:59:16,440 --> 06:59:20,373
this will have on Arterra if
the MOE receives complaints.

5125
06:59:22,020 --> 06:59:24,870
I believe Arterra is,
they're sophisticated.

5126
06:59:24,870 --> 06:59:27,780
They're an international
company. They're big boys.

5127
06:59:27,780 --> 06:59:31,350
They're confident that
what's being put in place

5128
06:59:31,350 --> 06:59:34,290
and what we've agreed to in
the memorandum of understanding

5129
06:59:34,290 --> 06:59:37,473
will work and will
result in no complaints.

5130
06:59:38,880 --> 06:59:42,780
Arterra recently celebrated
their 150th anniversary.

5131
06:59:42,780 --> 06:59:44,100
They're not going anywhere.

5132
06:59:44,100 --> 06:59:47,090
And Panoramic is looking
forward to working with Arterra

5133
06:59:47,090 --> 06:59:50,430
in the development of this
project in a safe, efficient,

5134
06:59:50,430 --> 06:59:52,143
and mutually beneficial manner.

5135
06:59:53,700 --> 06:59:54,930
I confirm that we have reviewed

5136
06:59:54,930 --> 06:59:56,820
the staff recommendation report

5137
06:59:56,820 --> 06:59:59,220
and accept the recommendations but,

5138
06:59:59,220 --> 07:00:01,470
are seeking confirmation
that the time period

5139
07:00:01,470 --> 07:00:04,380
for the sunset clause
does not begin to run

5140
07:00:04,380 --> 07:00:07,200
until the H on the zoning is lifted.

5141
07:00:07,200 --> 07:00:09,840
Recommendation three
states within three years

5142
07:00:09,840 --> 07:00:13,020
of the amending by-law coming into effect,

5143
07:00:13,020 --> 07:00:15,300
which suggests that the
time period begins to run

5144
07:00:15,300 --> 07:00:17,280
as soon as the by-laws passed.

5145
07:00:17,280 --> 07:00:19,440
But legally, no development can proceed

5146
07:00:19,440 --> 07:00:21,390
until the H is lifted.

5147
07:00:21,390 --> 07:00:23,220
No developer is going to go down the road

5148
07:00:23,220 --> 07:00:26,280
of a site plan agreement
until the H is lifted.

5149
07:00:26,280 --> 07:00:30,210
So that could be a year, it
could be two years, who knows?

5150
07:00:30,210 --> 07:00:33,480
So I'd like for it to
read within three years

5151
07:00:33,480 --> 07:00:36,210
of the H being lifted
from the amending by-law.

5152
07:00:36,210 --> 07:00:39,030
That's the only amendment we're seeking.

5153
07:00:39,030 --> 07:00:41,070
I will now pass it on to
Michael, Nicholas, and Barb,

5154
07:00:41,070 --> 07:00:42,990
to continue the presentation,

5155
07:00:42,990 --> 07:00:44,390
and I'll be back at the end.

5156
07:00:49,740 --> 07:00:51,750
- Good afternoon, mayor, council, staff,

5157
07:00:51,750 --> 07:00:53,130
and members of the public.

5158
07:00:53,130 --> 07:00:53,963
I'm Nicholas Godfrey,

5159
07:00:53,963 --> 07:00:56,190
Senior Planner with
Upper Canada Consultants.

5160
07:00:56,190 --> 07:00:57,960
And I'll give you a quick overview

5161
07:00:57,960 --> 07:00:59,940
in addition to what Mackenzie said.

5162
07:00:59,940 --> 07:01:01,380
Just provide some additional context

5163
07:01:01,380 --> 07:01:03,600
and purpose behind the development.

5164
07:01:03,600 --> 07:01:04,710
So as mentioned, the subject site

5165
07:01:04,710 --> 07:01:07,260
is at 5259 Dorchester Road,

5166
07:01:07,260 --> 07:01:09,990
and it occupies a
strategic transition point

5167
07:01:09,990 --> 07:01:12,240
within the urban area.

5168
07:01:12,240 --> 07:01:14,670
It's bounded by major
infrastructure corridors,

5169
07:01:14,670 --> 07:01:16,680
commercial areas, industrial uses,

5170
07:01:16,680 --> 07:01:19,020
and established residential areas.

5171
07:01:19,020 --> 07:01:20,280
The subject lands are to the west

5172
07:01:20,280 --> 07:01:22,560
of the Burdette Dawson neighborhood

5173
07:01:22,560 --> 07:01:26,013
and are within proximity to
key transportation routes,

5174
07:01:26,013 --> 07:01:28,590
including the QEW, Highway 420,

5175
07:01:28,590 --> 07:01:31,110
and are also serviced by
regional transit bus stops

5176
07:01:31,110 --> 07:01:33,390
on both sides of Dorchester Road.

5177
07:01:33,390 --> 07:01:36,330
Dorchester Road is also an arterial road.

5178
07:01:36,330 --> 07:01:37,740
They're accessible by automobile,

5179
07:01:37,740 --> 07:01:39,540
active transportation with sidewalks

5180
07:01:39,540 --> 07:01:41,460
on both sides of Dorchester Road

5181
07:01:41,460 --> 07:01:43,350
and on one side of Dawson Street,

5182
07:01:43,350 --> 07:01:44,820
and it's also in proximity

5183
07:01:44,820 --> 07:01:46,980
to the Millennium Recreational Trail.

5184
07:01:46,980 --> 07:01:48,300
They're within a five-minute drive

5185
07:01:48,300 --> 07:01:51,330
or a 15-minute walk of commercial
and lifestyle amenities

5186
07:01:51,330 --> 07:01:52,950
along Dorchester Road,

5187
07:01:52,950 --> 07:01:54,870
and at the intersection of Dorchester Road

5188
07:01:54,870 --> 07:01:56,940
and Morrison Street.

5189
07:01:56,940 --> 07:01:58,470
These areas cater to daily needs

5190
07:01:58,470 --> 07:02:02,370
with numerous retail stores,
restaurants, grocery stores,

5191
07:02:02,370 --> 07:02:05,220
medical offices, and
employment opportunities.

5192
07:02:05,220 --> 07:02:06,780
There's also a mix of residential uses,

5193
07:02:06,780 --> 07:02:09,750
including apartments,
townhouses, stacked townhouses,

5194
07:02:09,750 --> 07:02:11,253
and single detached dwellings.

5195
07:02:13,230 --> 07:02:15,660
So the previous concept
featured a minimum setback

5196
07:02:15,660 --> 07:02:20,660
of 70 meters from the property
line shared with Arterra.

5197
07:02:20,700 --> 07:02:23,220
And this was supported by the
submitted land use analyses

5198
07:02:23,220 --> 07:02:25,650
that we submitted during
our original application.

5199
07:02:25,650 --> 07:02:28,980
This proposal included
a total of 1,782 units

5200
07:02:28,980 --> 07:02:30,750
and had the following site features:

5201
07:02:30,750 --> 07:02:32,370
five residential buildings,

5202
07:02:32,370 --> 07:02:35,040
three mixed use commercial
residential buildings,

5203
07:02:35,040 --> 07:02:36,810
and two storage buildings.

5204
07:02:36,810 --> 07:02:39,330
It also included significant
outdoor amenity spaces,

5205
07:02:39,330 --> 07:02:41,820
rooftop amenities, and balcony areas.

5206
07:02:41,820 --> 07:02:44,670
It also includes two levels
of underground parking

5207
07:02:44,670 --> 07:02:46,743
and surface parking.

5208
07:02:52,800 --> 07:02:56,490
The revised concept features
a minimum 100 meter setback

5209
07:02:56,490 --> 07:02:58,260
for most buildings with
some positioned upwards

5210
07:02:58,260 --> 07:03:00,690
of 160 meters away.

5211
07:03:00,690 --> 07:03:02,110
The updated development
features nine buildings

5212
07:03:02,110 --> 07:03:04,890
and 1,782 units.

5213
07:03:04,890 --> 07:03:06,030
There's four residential buildings,

5214
07:03:06,030 --> 07:03:07,650
two of which feature a shared podium,

5215
07:03:07,650 --> 07:03:10,500
so these present as
six buildings in total.

5216
07:03:10,500 --> 07:03:12,990
Two mixed use commercial
residential buildings,

5217
07:03:12,990 --> 07:03:16,320
one standalone commercial
building, two storage buildings,

5218
07:03:16,320 --> 07:03:19,350
and as well, we've increased
the outdoor amenity area

5219
07:03:19,350 --> 07:03:21,810
to provide that additional
buffer to our Arterra's lands.

5220
07:03:21,810 --> 07:03:24,510
And we're still providing the
same amount of amenity area

5221
07:03:24,510 --> 07:03:28,440
in the building and
including rooftop balcony

5222
07:03:28,440 --> 07:03:30,570
and interior amenity spaces.

5223
07:03:30,570 --> 07:03:32,430
As well, it still continues
to feature two levels

5224
07:03:32,430 --> 07:03:34,653
of underground parking
and surface parking.

5225
07:03:36,780 --> 07:03:38,850
So what we heard during
the original design

5226
07:03:38,850 --> 07:03:41,973
is several issues of
concern that were raised.

5227
07:03:42,930 --> 07:03:44,400
One of which was traffic and circulation,

5228
07:03:44,400 --> 07:03:45,690
which you've heard about tonight.

5229
07:03:45,690 --> 07:03:47,310
So potential traffic increases

5230
07:03:47,310 --> 07:03:48,750
and the risk of cut-through traffic

5231
07:03:48,750 --> 07:03:51,390
utilizing existing residential streets.

5232
07:03:51,390 --> 07:03:52,890
We heard about the emergency access

5233
07:03:52,890 --> 07:03:55,230
and lack of emergency options to the site.

5234
07:03:55,230 --> 07:03:57,030
We heard about construction impacts

5235
07:03:57,030 --> 07:04:00,000
regarding timing and duration
of construction activities.

5236
07:04:00,000 --> 07:04:01,800
We heard about potential shadowing impacts

5237
07:04:01,800 --> 07:04:03,270
on surrounding properties.

5238
07:04:03,270 --> 07:04:06,300
We heard about strains on
existing sanitary sewer capacity

5239
07:04:06,300 --> 07:04:08,190
and infrastructure capacity.

5240
07:04:08,190 --> 07:04:10,140
We heard about scale and density issues

5241
07:04:10,140 --> 07:04:12,960
and the overall density of
the proposed development

5242
07:04:12,960 --> 07:04:14,040
on the surrounding neighborhood.

5243
07:04:14,040 --> 07:04:16,800
And we heard about the
industrial compatibility issues

5244
07:04:16,800 --> 07:04:19,053
with Arterra's property.

5245
07:04:20,520 --> 07:04:21,570
So to address these issues,

5246
07:04:21,570 --> 07:04:23,580
some of the changes we've made to the plan

5247
07:04:23,580 --> 07:04:27,420
under traffic and circulation
include a recommended redesign

5248
07:04:27,420 --> 07:04:30,000
of Dorchester Road and Dawson Street

5249
07:04:30,000 --> 07:04:33,150
to deter cut through
movements onto Dawson Street.

5250
07:04:33,150 --> 07:04:35,850
We've also recommended potential
traffic calming measures

5251
07:04:35,850 --> 07:04:39,900
for the city to consider in
the existing neighborhood

5252
07:04:39,900 --> 07:04:41,760
should the city wish to do so.

5253
07:04:41,760 --> 07:04:44,340
And we've also recommended
dedicated travel lanes

5254
07:04:44,340 --> 07:04:49,340
for the Arterra to access their
property on Dawson Street.

5255
07:04:50,580 --> 07:04:51,750
Regarding emergency access,

5256
07:04:51,750 --> 07:04:55,110
we have provided emergency
access as has been noted

5257
07:04:55,110 --> 07:04:56,550
regarding construction impacts.

5258
07:04:56,550 --> 07:04:59,340
As discussed, we will be phasing the site

5259
07:04:59,340 --> 07:05:00,990
to minimize construction impacts,

5260
07:05:00,990 --> 07:05:03,900
and it will be phased as well

5261
07:05:03,900 --> 07:05:05,070
as part of the holding provisions

5262
07:05:05,070 --> 07:05:06,240
under the traffic impact study.

5263
07:05:06,240 --> 07:05:09,450
We will be undertaking a phasing strategy.

5264
07:05:09,450 --> 07:05:11,790
Regarding shadowing, the
majority of shadow impact

5265
07:05:11,790 --> 07:05:13,800
are actually internal to the site.

5266
07:05:13,800 --> 07:05:15,450
And the remainder of the shadow impacts

5267
07:05:15,450 --> 07:05:18,120
are reduced from the original design

5268
07:05:18,120 --> 07:05:20,880
and are primarily late in the
day and later in the season

5269
07:05:20,880 --> 07:05:22,233
in the winter months.

5270
07:05:23,375 --> 07:05:25,290
And regarding infrastructure,

5271
07:05:25,290 --> 07:05:27,180
the FSR, which was reviewed by staff,

5272
07:05:27,180 --> 07:05:30,060
has determined that there is
sanitary capacity available.

5273
07:05:30,060 --> 07:05:32,640
And with the enhanced amenity area,

5274
07:05:32,640 --> 07:05:35,460
we also have additional
stormwater management strategies

5275
07:05:35,460 --> 07:05:38,160
that we can incorporate on the site.

5276
07:05:38,160 --> 07:05:39,780
Regarding scale and density,

5277
07:05:39,780 --> 07:05:42,000
so we consider this a key locational node

5278
07:05:42,000 --> 07:05:44,070
that can support increased density.

5279
07:05:44,070 --> 07:05:45,750
It's walkable to existing shopping

5280
07:05:45,750 --> 07:05:47,250
and employment opportunities.

5281
07:05:47,250 --> 07:05:48,480
It's on a transit route.

5282
07:05:48,480 --> 07:05:50,430
There's active transportation available.

5283
07:05:50,430 --> 07:05:53,580
It's on an interior roadway.
There's good highway access.

5284
07:05:53,580 --> 07:05:56,520
And we're providing open
space and amenities on site

5285
07:05:56,520 --> 07:06:00,450
to provide additional
lifestyle quality of life

5286
07:06:00,450 --> 07:06:03,150
for the people moving into this property.

5287
07:06:03,150 --> 07:06:06,150
And then regarding
industrial compatibility.

5288
07:06:06,150 --> 07:06:08,340
So we've increased residential setback

5289
07:06:08,340 --> 07:06:10,770
to Arterra Wines' property.

5290
07:06:10,770 --> 07:06:13,620
We are proposing a dedicated
travel lane to Arterra Wines

5291
07:06:13,620 --> 07:06:15,003
to maintain traffic flow.

5292
07:06:16,080 --> 07:06:18,090
The land use compatibility
study has recommended

5293
07:06:18,090 --> 07:06:19,800
mitigation measures
that will be implemented

5294
07:06:19,800 --> 07:06:21,990
as part of the detailed site plan stage.

5295
07:06:21,990 --> 07:06:23,550
And we also have demonstrated

5296
07:06:23,550 --> 07:06:25,500
commitment to work with
Arterra as demonstrated

5297
07:06:25,500 --> 07:06:29,790
through the executed
memorandum of understanding

5298
07:06:29,790 --> 07:06:32,820
that Butera have agreed to with Arterra.

5299
07:06:32,820 --> 07:06:34,590
So I will hand it off to Michael now

5300
07:06:34,590 --> 07:06:37,863
to speak more clearly
about the design intent.

5301
07:06:41,340 --> 07:06:42,630
- Good afternoon, Your Worship,

5302
07:06:42,630 --> 07:06:44,493
members of council and staff.

5303
07:06:46,350 --> 07:06:47,520
I'm going to be as quick as I can,

5304
07:06:47,520 --> 07:06:50,120
because I know, you've
probably heard a lot of this.

5305
07:06:50,970 --> 07:06:51,803
But going through the concept

5306
07:06:51,803 --> 07:06:52,800
and the design of it,

5307
07:06:52,800 --> 07:06:56,190
obviously, Dawson Creek is
the principal access point

5308
07:06:56,190 --> 07:06:58,080
into the development, and as noted,

5309
07:06:58,080 --> 07:07:00,060
is going to be redesigned to accommodate

5310
07:07:00,060 --> 07:07:02,790
the industrial building with it.

5311
07:07:02,790 --> 07:07:05,610
But the concept itself was
starting at the Dawson Creek

5312
07:07:05,610 --> 07:07:08,520
where we're proposing a
four-story commercial building

5313
07:07:08,520 --> 07:07:11,370
with enhanced landscaping
terraces and so forth.

5314
07:07:11,370 --> 07:07:13,650
The objective there is
to create the definition

5315
07:07:13,650 --> 07:07:17,883
at that intersection starting
along the Dorchester Road.

5316
07:07:19,080 --> 07:07:20,460
Moving to the south of it,

5317
07:07:20,460 --> 07:07:22,800
we're proposing the
two mixed use buildings

5318
07:07:22,800 --> 07:07:26,910
that'll be the podium design
with commercial on grade

5319
07:07:26,910 --> 07:07:30,090
with, again, pedestrian
access, pedestrian terraces

5320
07:07:30,090 --> 07:07:34,020
and so forth connecting to
Dorchester helping us to create

5321
07:07:34,020 --> 07:07:37,050
that definition and
articulate the street facade

5322
07:07:37,050 --> 07:07:38,640
at Dorchester Road.

5323
07:07:38,640 --> 07:07:41,310
The remainder of the residential buildings

5324
07:07:41,310 --> 07:07:43,530
are along the southern
portion of the property,

5325
07:07:43,530 --> 07:07:46,480
stepping towards the
westerly, done intentionally

5326
07:07:47,370 --> 07:07:50,520
so that we step the
buildings from the 14 stories

5327
07:07:50,520 --> 07:07:52,680
to the 24, 25 stories

5328
07:07:52,680 --> 07:07:57,000
as we move west away from the
existing residential fabric

5329
07:07:57,000 --> 07:07:58,830
along Dorchester Road.

5330
07:07:58,830 --> 07:08:01,080
And as you can see from
the original proposal

5331
07:08:01,080 --> 07:08:05,340
to what we're at to today, there
is excessive greenery space

5332
07:08:05,340 --> 07:08:08,160
left in the core of the
property, done intentionally

5333
07:08:08,160 --> 07:08:12,480
so that we can integrate an
enhanced landscaping plan,

5334
07:08:12,480 --> 07:08:15,100
amenity space, gardens and so forth

5335
07:08:16,527 --> 07:08:18,030
for the property residents.

5336
07:08:18,030 --> 07:08:20,160
But it's also as we get into
the site plan agreement,

5337
07:08:20,160 --> 07:08:22,470
we've got excessive space to incorporate

5338
07:08:22,470 --> 07:08:25,140
and work with the stormwater management

5339
07:08:25,140 --> 07:08:27,303
as we're going through that design.

5340
07:08:28,170 --> 07:08:31,680
Notably as well, the
buildings are being designed

5341
07:08:31,680 --> 07:08:34,380
and strategically positioned on the site

5342
07:08:34,380 --> 07:08:37,410
so that we take into
consideration the viewpoints

5343
07:08:37,410 --> 07:08:40,620
and the privacy of not
only within our property,

5344
07:08:40,620 --> 07:08:42,930
but from the surrounding
properties as well.

5345
07:08:42,930 --> 07:08:43,850
And I'll explain that to you

5346
07:08:43,850 --> 07:08:45,450
in a little more detail shortly.

5347
07:08:48,270 --> 07:08:51,599
As noted, there will be two
levels of underground parking

5348
07:08:51,599 --> 07:08:56,190
that will accommodate
1,754 vehicles underground.

5349
07:08:56,190 --> 07:08:59,760
We will also be accommodating
375 surface parking spaces

5350
07:08:59,760 --> 07:09:02,460
that will be strategically
laid out throughout the site

5351
07:09:02,460 --> 07:09:04,200
with the landscaping plan as well,

5352
07:09:04,200 --> 07:09:06,930
so we're not looking at
just a sea of asphalt.

5353
07:09:06,930 --> 07:09:10,113
Total spaces of 2,129 spaces.

5354
07:09:12,420 --> 07:09:15,390
So as I noted the buildings
that are being designed

5355
07:09:15,390 --> 07:09:17,640
and strategically positioned

5356
07:09:17,640 --> 07:09:21,540
to consider the privacy vantage points,

5357
07:09:21,540 --> 07:09:25,410
and illustrated here, it's
more so with the angular plane.

5358
07:09:25,410 --> 07:09:28,410
The angular plane is never
impeded at any portion

5359
07:09:28,410 --> 07:09:30,000
of our property boundary

5360
07:09:30,000 --> 07:09:33,183
as it's adjacent to a
neighboring property.

5361
07:09:34,170 --> 07:09:36,600
As you can see in the
illustration, the first one

5362
07:09:36,600 --> 07:09:40,170
is a section along
Dorchester looking westerly.

5363
07:09:40,170 --> 07:09:41,880
Primarily, it gives you a viewpoint

5364
07:09:41,880 --> 07:09:44,460
of the angular plane from
the Arterra property,

5365
07:09:44,460 --> 07:09:47,040
and you can see the
development is well within

5366
07:09:47,040 --> 07:09:49,413
the angular plane boundaries.

5367
07:09:50,310 --> 07:09:52,080
I took a section further into the site

5368
07:09:52,080 --> 07:09:54,000
as the buildings get taller.

5369
07:09:54,000 --> 07:09:56,193
That's where we're at, the 24, 25 stories.

5370
07:09:57,249 --> 07:09:59,280
And again, that's where
we've increased the setback

5371
07:09:59,280 --> 07:10:03,420
of 160 to 161 meters to
the industrial property.

5372
07:10:03,420 --> 07:10:05,670
Again, you can also see
that we're well within

5373
07:10:05,670 --> 07:10:07,683
the angular plane boundaries.

5374
07:10:09,870 --> 07:10:12,990
Now in consideration
of the taller buildings

5375
07:10:12,990 --> 07:10:16,620
looking northerly, it's more
so to show a a cut section

5376
07:10:16,620 --> 07:10:18,720
through Dorchester at the very far right.

5377
07:10:18,720 --> 07:10:21,540
Again, you can see from Dorchester Road

5378
07:10:21,540 --> 07:10:23,790
and the properties across the street,

5379
07:10:23,790 --> 07:10:26,643
the buildings are within
the angular plain boundary.

5380
07:10:27,570 --> 07:10:30,570
And then as we cut it
closer to the existing

5381
07:10:30,570 --> 07:10:32,430
residential tower,

5382
07:10:32,430 --> 07:10:35,550
again, you'll see the angular
plane is well respected

5383
07:10:35,550 --> 07:10:37,660
with the core of the property being left

5384
07:10:38,583 --> 07:10:41,253
for the landscaping enhancements
within the property.

5385
07:10:45,240 --> 07:10:47,400
So as the designs of the buildings

5386
07:10:47,400 --> 07:10:51,660
in the site go into further
detail and development,

5387
07:10:51,660 --> 07:10:55,170
the main objective of our
proposal is to create and define

5388
07:10:55,170 --> 07:10:58,140
a pedestrian scale along Dorchester.

5389
07:10:58,140 --> 07:11:01,500
This will be achieved with
the commercial podiums

5390
07:11:01,500 --> 07:11:03,507
that we're proposing for
the mixed use buildings

5391
07:11:03,507 --> 07:11:05,700
and the commercial buildings.

5392
07:11:05,700 --> 07:11:09,060
It will also be done through
the combined landscaping,

5393
07:11:09,060 --> 07:11:11,970
the pedestrian accesses,
and the pedestrian terraces.

5394
07:11:11,970 --> 07:11:15,210
The development then as
noted, will step inwards

5395
07:11:15,210 --> 07:11:18,963
away from the existing
residential fabric that exists.

5396
07:11:21,360 --> 07:11:24,210
So notably, and no one will argue the fact

5397
07:11:24,210 --> 07:11:26,370
that Dorchester is a busy street,

5398
07:11:26,370 --> 07:11:28,770
but the design standpoint,
it is very important

5399
07:11:28,770 --> 07:11:32,220
that the development enhances
the pedestrian interaction

5400
07:11:32,220 --> 07:11:35,160
along the street edge within the property

5401
07:11:35,160 --> 07:11:36,860
and within the existing community.

5402
07:11:39,960 --> 07:11:43,572
So the development, as everyone
is aware, is being built,

5403
07:11:43,572 --> 07:11:45,660
operated, and maintained
by Panoramic Properties

5404
07:11:45,660 --> 07:11:47,520
as a rental community.

5405
07:11:47,520 --> 07:11:51,540
Notably, all of Panoramic's
developments are built,

5406
07:11:51,540 --> 07:11:56,010
run, and maintained at a
level of condominium status.

5407
07:11:56,010 --> 07:12:00,960
And so what I mean by this is
the amenities, the services,

5408
07:12:00,960 --> 07:12:03,120
the features that are within the site

5409
07:12:03,120 --> 07:12:05,970
and within the buildings are
what you would actually expect

5410
07:12:05,970 --> 07:12:09,603
to see in condominiums, but
this is for a rental complex.

5411
07:12:11,490 --> 07:12:14,250
So you'll see such things
as lounges, party rooms,

5412
07:12:14,250 --> 07:12:17,523
theater rooms, fitness
facilities, rooftop terraces,

5413
07:12:19,200 --> 07:12:23,160
gardens and so forth, and
self-storage on the property,

5414
07:12:23,160 --> 07:12:26,190
and as well, its own maintenance facility

5415
07:12:26,190 --> 07:12:28,410
on this property to service it.

5416
07:12:28,410 --> 07:12:30,540
And that is for not only for us,

5417
07:12:30,540 --> 07:12:32,760
but for the property
owner is very important

5418
07:12:32,760 --> 07:12:34,650
because maintaining it
to a higher standard

5419
07:12:34,650 --> 07:12:37,710
will allow this community
to thrive and grow.

5420
07:12:37,710 --> 07:12:40,350
So with that, I'm going to
hand it back to Mr. Vodka

5421
07:12:40,350 --> 07:12:41,730
to conclude the presentation,

5422
07:12:41,730 --> 07:12:44,670
then we'll answer any questions
after that. Thank you.

5423
07:12:44,670 --> 07:12:46,470
- [Audience Member] You said vodka.

5424
07:12:46,470 --> 07:12:49,023
Mr. Vodka, you called him Mr. Vodka.

5425
07:12:50,753 --> 07:12:53,753
(audience chuckles)

5426
07:12:55,320 --> 07:12:56,190
- The only thing with clarification

5427
07:12:56,190 --> 07:12:58,170
we wanted was on Dawson's Creek.

5428
07:12:58,170 --> 07:13:00,630
We weren't sure exactly where that was.

5429
07:13:00,630 --> 07:13:01,890
Maybe you can help us.

5430
07:13:01,890 --> 07:13:02,883
Okay, thank you.

5431
07:13:05,400 --> 07:13:07,403
- [Audience Member] Is
it Mr. Vodka, tell us.

5432
07:13:09,750 --> 07:13:11,490
- Thank you, Michael.

5433
07:13:11,490 --> 07:13:14,040
So I am now in my 30th year of practice,

5434
07:13:14,040 --> 07:13:15,210
and from my experience,

5435
07:13:15,210 --> 07:13:17,730
I believe this is one of the largest,

5436
07:13:17,730 --> 07:13:20,164
if not the largest mixed use
project ever brought forward

5437
07:13:20,164 --> 07:13:24,810
in the City of Niagara
Falls, if not in the region.

5438
07:13:24,810 --> 07:13:26,640
It is truly a legacy project

5439
07:13:26,640 --> 07:13:30,060
for the Butera family in their hometown.

5440
07:13:30,060 --> 07:13:33,810
Now, dealing with the
financial impacts schedule

5441
07:13:33,810 --> 07:13:38,810
that's before you, so just
some stats and figures.

5442
07:13:40,380 --> 07:13:45,380
The total project cost is
estimated at $757,350,000.

5443
07:13:53,310 --> 07:13:55,560
The soft costs, sorry,

5444
07:13:55,560 --> 07:13:59,283
development charges are going
to be just under 67 million.

5445
07:14:00,510 --> 07:14:05,510
Building permit fees, 11,355,000.

5446
07:14:05,850 --> 07:14:08,400
And the property tax
figure, that's incorrect,

5447
07:14:08,400 --> 07:14:10,293
the 5,500,000.

5448
07:14:12,954 --> 07:14:17,954
At 1,782 units, if we
assess it at four to 5,000

5449
07:14:18,900 --> 07:14:21,510
taxes per unit, which is quite easily

5450
07:14:21,510 --> 07:14:26,010
going to be the number, plus
the commercial component of it.

5451
07:14:26,010 --> 07:14:30,030
I believe around 5,000
is the city's portion

5452
07:14:30,030 --> 07:14:31,387
of the total property taxes.

5453
07:14:31,387 --> 07:14:34,080
$5 million would be the city's portion

5454
07:14:34,080 --> 07:14:35,283
of the property taxes.

5455
07:14:37,710 --> 07:14:39,123
Dealing with employment,

5456
07:14:40,380 --> 07:14:44,850
the project will have
3,000 total construction,

5457
07:14:44,850 --> 07:14:47,220
sorry, three million
total construction hours.

5458
07:14:47,220 --> 07:14:49,587
I feel like I've been drinking vodka.

5459
07:14:49,587 --> 07:14:50,420
(audience chuckles)

5460
07:14:50,420 --> 07:14:53,010
Three million total construction hours.

5461
07:14:53,010 --> 07:14:56,954
And the generated employment
income throughout the project

5462
07:14:56,954 --> 07:14:59,583
would be $165 million.

5463
07:15:04,950 --> 07:15:09,950
And in terms of total employment
income for the employees

5464
07:15:12,660 --> 07:15:15,990
who will remain on the site
ongoing for maintenance

5465
07:15:15,990 --> 07:15:18,690
and for the commercial
component of the site,

5466
07:15:18,690 --> 07:15:23,433
we're looking at $13 million
in income for the employees.

5467
07:15:24,600 --> 07:15:26,250
So those are the financial figures.

5468
07:15:26,250 --> 07:15:28,560
You heard that roughly
right now you're getting

5469
07:15:28,560 --> 07:15:33,420
about $81,000 in property
taxes for this vacant parcel

5470
07:15:33,420 --> 07:15:35,490
that's been vacant for quite a while.

5471
07:15:35,490 --> 07:15:38,610
The Loblaw's Group owned it for decades.

5472
07:15:38,610 --> 07:15:42,540
They had planned a shopping
mall on that property,

5473
07:15:42,540 --> 07:15:44,490
gave up on that idea.

5474
07:15:44,490 --> 07:15:47,010
The Butera Group bought the property.

5475
07:15:47,010 --> 07:15:50,190
And I know there's worries about impact,

5476
07:15:50,190 --> 07:15:52,980
but the studies that remain to be done

5477
07:15:52,980 --> 07:15:57,980
will deal with whatever
I's need to be dotted

5478
07:15:58,110 --> 07:15:59,910
or Ts need to be crossed.

5479
07:15:59,910 --> 07:16:03,330
So just for the benefit of the neighbors,

5480
07:16:03,330 --> 07:16:07,110
please feel confident that
this project will not proceed

5481
07:16:07,110 --> 07:16:10,950
until your staff is confident that we have

5482
07:16:10,950 --> 07:16:13,650
crossed all the T's
and dotted all the I's.

5483
07:16:13,650 --> 07:16:14,880
And that's going to take time.

5484
07:16:14,880 --> 07:16:17,190
And that's why, again, we're requesting

5485
07:16:17,190 --> 07:16:19,830
that the sunset clause be worded

5486
07:16:19,830 --> 07:16:23,730
so that it doesn't start
ticking until the H is lifted.

5487
07:16:23,730 --> 07:16:25,980
It's going to take us
a while to lift that H.

5488
07:16:29,310 --> 07:16:30,630
And those are my comments.

5489
07:16:30,630 --> 07:16:32,070
Subject to any questions you may have,

5490
07:16:32,070 --> 07:16:35,463
we have our traffic
consultant here as well.

5491
07:16:35,463 --> 07:16:36,296
- Okay, thank you.

5492
07:16:36,296 --> 07:16:38,910
So I've got Councillor
Nieuwesteeg, Dabrowski,

5493
07:16:38,910 --> 07:16:40,560
Patel, Lococo.

5494
07:16:40,560 --> 07:16:41,670
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

5495
07:16:41,670 --> 07:16:44,850
And thank you to all for the presentation

5496
07:16:44,850 --> 07:16:46,560
and to the developers.

5497
07:16:46,560 --> 07:16:48,150
What a way to end our council term

5498
07:16:48,150 --> 07:16:51,844
with an absolutely fabulous
project ahead of us.

5499
07:16:51,844 --> 07:16:54,630
I mean, I say that because
we looking at a possibility

5500
07:16:54,630 --> 07:16:56,610
of 3,000 new residents.

5501
07:16:56,610 --> 07:16:58,560
I particularly see a lot of seniors.

5502
07:16:58,560 --> 07:17:00,870
I know Aras was talking about youth,

5503
07:17:00,870 --> 07:17:04,230
but I see seniors and this
being a great place for seniors

5504
07:17:04,230 --> 07:17:06,120
because of the location.

5505
07:17:06,120 --> 07:17:08,220
So easy to walk to all the amenities.

5506
07:17:08,220 --> 07:17:10,350
I know this is the
second project this year

5507
07:17:10,350 --> 07:17:11,670
that Mr. Butera brought to us.

5508
07:17:11,670 --> 07:17:14,250
And it's location, location, location.

5509
07:17:14,250 --> 07:17:16,500
And absolutely, I was
writing down all the things

5510
07:17:16,500 --> 07:17:19,890
that you can get to very easily.

5511
07:17:19,890 --> 07:17:21,270
Now, when we're talking about traffic,

5512
07:17:21,270 --> 07:17:24,240
so I envisioned if I was
living there and I had a car,

5513
07:17:24,240 --> 07:17:26,550
if I had to go anywhere
other than the Dorchester,

5514
07:17:26,550 --> 07:17:27,450
so this can help.

5515
07:17:27,450 --> 07:17:29,910
We talk about mitigating traffic.

5516
07:17:29,910 --> 07:17:31,650
I would jump on the
highway because the highway

5517
07:17:31,650 --> 07:17:33,600
where we are right
there can get you across

5518
07:17:33,600 --> 07:17:34,770
the city very easy.

5519
07:17:34,770 --> 07:17:36,330
Where I could see it
being a bit of an issue

5520
07:17:36,330 --> 07:17:37,920
is if I'm trying to go over to Zehrs,

5521
07:17:37,920 --> 07:17:41,100
if I wanted to go get pet food,
if I want to go to Staples

5522
07:17:41,100 --> 07:17:44,280
or the Dollar Store or the
accountants or the lawyers

5523
07:17:44,280 --> 07:17:46,020
or everything else that's over there,

5524
07:17:46,020 --> 07:17:47,835
that's where the traffic would be.

5525
07:17:47,835 --> 07:17:50,640
Now, if we go back to that
first slide that Mr. Allen

5526
07:17:50,640 --> 07:17:53,470
had at the beginning where
you showed us that nice

5527
07:17:54,690 --> 07:17:56,583
one more, back a few more.

5528
07:17:58,150 --> 07:18:01,410
Back, back. When you had the
green space there, there.

5529
07:18:01,410 --> 07:18:03,870
So why, and you're paying,

5530
07:18:03,870 --> 07:18:06,630
well, if you're giving
us $5.5 million in taxes,

5531
07:18:06,630 --> 07:18:09,750
I'm sure you're giving the
region a far more than that.

5532
07:18:09,750 --> 07:18:11,760
Why could you not deal with the region

5533
07:18:11,760 --> 07:18:15,780
and have a bus system
come in and loop around?

5534
07:18:15,780 --> 07:18:17,910
Are the roads in there large enough

5535
07:18:17,910 --> 07:18:20,160
to have a city bus come in?

5536
07:18:20,160 --> 07:18:22,080
Because if they go over
to the Zehrs Plaza,

5537
07:18:22,080 --> 07:18:23,640
they have a bus depot there.

5538
07:18:23,640 --> 07:18:25,890
That way people, especially
seniors making it attainable,

5539
07:18:25,890 --> 07:18:28,230
they may not even have to have a car then.

5540
07:18:28,230 --> 07:18:31,427
They could hop on the bus
there, go pick up their...

5541
07:18:31,427 --> 07:18:32,940
Which might be too heavy
for them to carry it back,

5542
07:18:32,940 --> 07:18:35,520
and get on the bus there
because it loops right back in.

5543
07:18:35,520 --> 07:18:37,980
It's not like they have to
walk from Dorchester Road

5544
07:18:37,980 --> 07:18:39,030
into the complex.

5545
07:18:39,030 --> 07:18:40,830
Is that a possibility?

5546
07:18:43,740 --> 07:18:46,800
- Through Your Worship I think
that's a great suggestion.

5547
07:18:46,800 --> 07:18:48,420
So to answer your initial question is,

5548
07:18:48,420 --> 07:18:50,010
yes, a bus can travel through that site

5549
07:18:50,010 --> 07:18:53,100
because we've got it to
accommodate the fire route.

5550
07:18:53,100 --> 07:18:55,950
So I think that's something
we would definitely look at,

5551
07:18:55,950 --> 07:18:58,140
something we'd be considering
at the site plan agreement

5552
07:18:58,140 --> 07:18:59,640
to integrate those kind of things with it,

5553
07:18:59,640 --> 07:19:01,243
but I think it's a great suggestion.

5554
07:19:01,243 --> 07:19:04,170
- All right. And continuing on from there.

5555
07:19:04,170 --> 07:19:07,710
And I do want to go on about the fact

5556
07:19:07,710 --> 07:19:10,200
that you've worked with and
that's been a big pet peeve

5557
07:19:10,200 --> 07:19:13,650
of ours on council, this
industrial versus residential.

5558
07:19:13,650 --> 07:19:15,690
However, and a lot of times what we find

5559
07:19:15,690 --> 07:19:17,970
is the residential people end up there

5560
07:19:17,970 --> 07:19:20,940
and they're not aware of
these other industries.

5561
07:19:20,940 --> 07:19:23,190
But in this case, there
is a highway right there.

5562
07:19:23,190 --> 07:19:24,717
So if nothing else tells you,

5563
07:19:24,717 --> 07:19:27,360
and it's right in your face,
there's going to be noise,

5564
07:19:27,360 --> 07:19:28,980
there's going to be odor,
there's going to be vibration.

5565
07:19:28,980 --> 07:19:30,690
That's going to tell you right there.

5566
07:19:30,690 --> 07:19:31,830
If I'm choosing to live there,

5567
07:19:31,830 --> 07:19:35,310
I've got to be expected to
deal with some of those things.

5568
07:19:35,310 --> 07:19:37,054
I want to talk about the, you know,

5569
07:19:37,054 --> 07:19:37,887
the taxes we've talked about

5570
07:19:37,887 --> 07:19:39,723
going from 81,000 to a $5 million.

5571
07:19:40,845 --> 07:19:43,200
And that for all of us
means a lot of less taxes.

5572
07:19:43,200 --> 07:19:45,840
So when we're looking at what
we increased just last year,

5573
07:19:45,840 --> 07:19:48,090
basically that would
have covered our increase

5574
07:19:48,090 --> 07:19:50,280
last year in our own tax dollars, so.

5575
07:19:50,280 --> 07:19:53,280
And that equals almost
25% of our OLG funding.

5576
07:19:53,280 --> 07:19:56,970
So this is a significant
infusion of tax dollars

5577
07:19:56,970 --> 07:19:59,910
or tax dollars as well
as infusion to dollars,

5578
07:19:59,910 --> 07:20:02,370
which Mr. Primorano talked about.

5579
07:20:02,370 --> 07:20:04,380
Having said that though,
we do have the residents,

5580
07:20:04,380 --> 07:20:06,540
and I want to speak to
Mr. Hines' questions.

5581
07:20:06,540 --> 07:20:08,850
I thought you made a great presentation.

5582
07:20:08,850 --> 07:20:11,247
You do have some questions that
I think need to be addressed

5583
07:20:11,247 --> 07:20:14,370
and they haven't all been talked about.

5584
07:20:14,370 --> 07:20:17,430
So when we talking about the
phases, and we heard phases,

5585
07:20:17,430 --> 07:20:19,410
I think you quoted 19 times,

5586
07:20:19,410 --> 07:20:22,500
is it possible that those
phases can be explained

5587
07:20:22,500 --> 07:20:26,340
for the residents so that they
understand what that means?

5588
07:20:26,340 --> 07:20:28,920
- Through Your Worship.
So absolutely it can.

5589
07:20:28,920 --> 07:20:30,180
Usually we get into more detail

5590
07:20:30,180 --> 07:20:31,890
when we get into the site plan agreement,

5591
07:20:31,890 --> 07:20:35,703
and I appreciate everyone's
concern at the zoning stages.

5592
07:20:37,470 --> 07:20:40,500
Appreciate from our standpoint
that the concept design,

5593
07:20:40,500 --> 07:20:42,030
and that's what it is.

5594
07:20:42,030 --> 07:20:44,040
This is real. We know we can do it.

5595
07:20:44,040 --> 07:20:45,630
We get into the detailed design of it

5596
07:20:45,630 --> 07:20:48,030
and we can start integrating the phases

5597
07:20:48,030 --> 07:20:48,960
as we're looking at it.

5598
07:20:48,960 --> 07:20:51,060
We have to sit down with the developer.

5599
07:20:51,060 --> 07:20:53,640
And for us, it's very strategic

5600
07:20:53,640 --> 07:20:55,890
where we either start at Dorchester,

5601
07:20:55,890 --> 07:20:58,530
work our way through
the site and back out,

5602
07:20:58,530 --> 07:21:01,710
or we start at the back and
work our way out to Dorchester.

5603
07:21:01,710 --> 07:21:03,510
It's a financial thing
that we got to look at

5604
07:21:03,510 --> 07:21:06,330
and see what's the most
expedient way to do it.

5605
07:21:06,330 --> 07:21:08,910
Regardless, the one comment
that was brought up,

5606
07:21:08,910 --> 07:21:10,500
in a development of this magnitude,

5607
07:21:10,500 --> 07:21:14,760
you have to do pre and
post construction surveys.

5608
07:21:14,760 --> 07:21:18,180
So we would be analyzing,
monitoring all the way around

5609
07:21:18,180 --> 07:21:20,640
the areas for the people
that would be impacted

5610
07:21:20,640 --> 07:21:22,350
by this type of development.

5611
07:21:22,350 --> 07:21:24,990
Putting in the dust control measures,

5612
07:21:24,990 --> 07:21:27,270
the construction measures schedules,

5613
07:21:27,270 --> 07:21:28,170
because it has to be done

5614
07:21:28,170 --> 07:21:30,840
so you just can't drive
trucks in and out of the site.

5615
07:21:30,840 --> 07:21:32,850
As you see at the hospital, for example,

5616
07:21:32,850 --> 07:21:34,800
they've got construction gates

5617
07:21:34,800 --> 07:21:36,483
scheduled for coming and goings.

5618
07:21:38,580 --> 07:21:40,020
The rodent issue was brought up.

5619
07:21:40,020 --> 07:21:43,170
So for example, that also
would have to be dealt with

5620
07:21:43,170 --> 07:21:44,700
at site plan agreement,

5621
07:21:44,700 --> 07:21:46,980
but in larger developments of this scale,

5622
07:21:46,980 --> 07:21:50,310
a rodent control plan
has to be put in place.

5623
07:21:50,310 --> 07:21:52,260
Something we don't deal with at zoning

5624
07:21:52,260 --> 07:21:54,930
because we're dealing with
zoning matters with it,

5625
07:21:54,930 --> 07:21:57,270
the more critical things
with respect to servicing

5626
07:21:57,270 --> 07:21:59,340
and things of that nature.

5627
07:21:59,340 --> 07:22:02,820
And part of the work through
the city with the neighbors,

5628
07:22:02,820 --> 07:22:04,740
why we've done a change,

5629
07:22:04,740 --> 07:22:07,020
a fairly significant change in the design,

5630
07:22:07,020 --> 07:22:10,710
literally a month or so before
we had to come to council.

5631
07:22:10,710 --> 07:22:15,690
So you can only imagine the
hurrying behind the scenes

5632
07:22:15,690 --> 07:22:17,490
trying to get things back to you guys.

5633
07:22:17,490 --> 07:22:20,400
So that's part and parcel
why we're even requesting

5634
07:22:20,400 --> 07:22:22,530
the hold zone on some of these studies

5635
07:22:22,530 --> 07:22:25,710
so that we can get into the
detailed aspect of mitigating

5636
07:22:25,710 --> 07:22:28,530
the winds and things of that nature.

5637
07:22:28,530 --> 07:22:30,033
- And you'll be dealing
with residents how long?

5638
07:22:30,033 --> 07:22:33,936
It's just, it's a great. We
don't want it to go back.

5639
07:22:33,936 --> 07:22:34,912
- It's a must.

5640
07:22:34,912 --> 07:22:36,927
- And so I'm just hoping that Mr. Hines

5641
07:22:36,927 --> 07:22:38,910
and the residents will feel comfortable

5642
07:22:38,910 --> 07:22:41,490
that they're not going to
be ignored through this.

5643
07:22:41,490 --> 07:22:45,000
Because the city's going to
benefit immensely from this.

5644
07:22:45,000 --> 07:22:47,430
And I appreciate the fact that
they don't want to stop it.

5645
07:22:47,430 --> 07:22:49,770
They're just asking for consideration.

5646
07:22:49,770 --> 07:22:52,710
And you know, like for blasting,
here it said in your report

5647
07:22:52,710 --> 07:22:54,900
that blasting wasn't going to be an issue,

5648
07:22:54,900 --> 07:22:56,370
but they're a little concerned.

5649
07:22:56,370 --> 07:22:59,280
So as long as we can make
sure they're accommodated

5650
07:22:59,280 --> 07:23:00,270
through this whole process.

5651
07:23:00,270 --> 07:23:01,503
- And rightfully so.

5652
07:23:03,300 --> 07:23:05,310
The geotechnical, we don't have stone

5653
07:23:05,310 --> 07:23:06,450
and not to be blasting through.

5654
07:23:06,450 --> 07:23:08,970
We have enough dirt to dig down with

5655
07:23:08,970 --> 07:23:10,140
with the geotechnical aspect.

5656
07:23:10,140 --> 07:23:11,727
But again, as we're moving forward

5657
07:23:11,727 --> 07:23:13,960
and a construction
schedule is put in place

5658
07:23:15,390 --> 07:23:17,460
the construction management aspect of it

5659
07:23:17,460 --> 07:23:19,230
would notify the neighbors
and the surrounding

5660
07:23:19,230 --> 07:23:22,350
as to what's going, and the
schedule of constructions.

5661
07:23:22,350 --> 07:23:23,820
And I think we've kind of proved

5662
07:23:23,820 --> 07:23:25,350
that we are willing to
work with the neighbors.

5663
07:23:25,350 --> 07:23:27,570
And what I mean by that is,

5664
07:23:27,570 --> 07:23:30,540
we actually had three information
meetings on this project.

5665
07:23:30,540 --> 07:23:32,040
The very first one we had

5666
07:23:32,040 --> 07:23:34,350
was actually two and a half years ago.

5667
07:23:34,350 --> 07:23:37,140
We actually had nobody
show up to the site.

5668
07:23:37,140 --> 07:23:37,973
And that's not,

5669
07:23:37,973 --> 07:23:40,020
I don't want to get into
the ins and outs about it.

5670
07:23:40,020 --> 07:23:41,940
And we found out that there was a mix up

5671
07:23:41,940 --> 07:23:44,520
with the control board or the condo board.

5672
07:23:44,520 --> 07:23:49,050
So my client obliged to have
another one at his expense.

5673
07:23:49,050 --> 07:23:51,480
That one was on us because
we decided to do a format

5674
07:23:51,480 --> 07:23:53,610
that we thought was going
to be a little more informal

5675
07:23:53,610 --> 07:23:55,410
to have a discussion.

5676
07:23:55,410 --> 07:23:58,653
And as I recall, Councillor
Lococo was at it.

5677
07:23:59,760 --> 07:24:03,660
And we really didn't get a
chance to discuss and engage

5678
07:24:03,660 --> 07:24:05,430
with the residents.

5679
07:24:05,430 --> 07:24:08,160
So at their request and
at my client's cost,

5680
07:24:08,160 --> 07:24:09,480
we had another one.

5681
07:24:09,480 --> 07:24:11,703
So we've had three information meetings.

5682
07:24:13,690 --> 07:24:16,743
And then extensive meetings
with your staff and the mayor.

5683
07:24:17,760 --> 07:24:21,417
So we're proven that we
want to work with the city

5684
07:24:21,417 --> 07:24:23,370
and the neighbors to make this a success.

5685
07:24:23,370 --> 07:24:26,940
- There was another comment
Mr. Hines made about utilities,

5686
07:24:26,940 --> 07:24:28,650
the hydro communication.

5687
07:24:28,650 --> 07:24:30,990
Will that be dealt with as well

5688
07:24:30,990 --> 07:24:35,280
so there is no interruption
or disruption today?

5689
07:24:35,280 --> 07:24:37,350
- Absolutely, so at site plan,
again, when we get into it,

5690
07:24:37,350 --> 07:24:40,380
we've got to start engaging
with hydro and so forth.

5691
07:24:40,380 --> 07:24:41,420
We're actually doing a project right now

5692
07:24:41,420 --> 07:24:43,980
in St. Catharines where we're
having to bring in more power

5693
07:24:43,980 --> 07:24:44,970
into the site.

5694
07:24:44,970 --> 07:24:46,380
This is not a cost to the residents.

5695
07:24:46,380 --> 07:24:48,390
This is not a cost to the city.

5696
07:24:48,390 --> 07:24:50,400
If by chance they've got
to get power to the site

5697
07:24:50,400 --> 07:24:52,260
for different transformers and so forth,

5698
07:24:52,260 --> 07:24:53,850
that's at the development cost.

5699
07:24:53,850 --> 07:24:55,950
The objective is that
there is no interruption

5700
07:24:55,950 --> 07:24:57,990
to the services to the residents.

5701
07:24:57,990 --> 07:25:00,960
And that's part of the
memorandum with Arterra

5702
07:25:00,960 --> 07:25:04,290
is they cannot have any
interruption with regards to water,

5703
07:25:04,290 --> 07:25:05,580
drainage, or power.

5704
07:25:05,580 --> 07:25:08,790
That industry must keep
operating twenty four seven.

5705
07:25:08,790 --> 07:25:12,810
So it's prudent upon us to
make sure that it works.

5706
07:25:12,810 --> 07:25:15,090
That's also when we get into
the phasing of the development,

5707
07:25:15,090 --> 07:25:17,160
we have to make sure that we
just don't do a little phase

5708
07:25:17,160 --> 07:25:19,590
and then find out, oops,
we've got to make sure

5709
07:25:19,590 --> 07:25:20,423
that we have everything there

5710
07:25:20,423 --> 07:25:24,000
so that as we phase it
through, it's a plug and play.

5711
07:25:24,000 --> 07:25:26,730
- Okay, and the final
comment that Mr. Hines made

5712
07:25:26,730 --> 07:25:28,650
was about having a hole in the ground.

5713
07:25:28,650 --> 07:25:31,350
This is one development I don't fear

5714
07:25:31,350 --> 07:25:32,460
that we're going to have that issue.

5715
07:25:32,460 --> 07:25:35,067
So I feel confident in that.

5716
07:25:35,067 --> 07:25:36,900
And I thank you for all your answers

5717
07:25:36,900 --> 07:25:41,490
and I hope that the residents
are satisfied with the answers

5718
07:25:41,490 --> 07:25:43,350
that they've been given so far.

5719
07:25:43,350 --> 07:25:44,340
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

5720
07:25:44,340 --> 07:25:47,190
- Thank you. Councillor
Dabrowski, Patel, and Lococo.

5721
07:25:47,190 --> 07:25:49,050
- Thank you. Through you.
Thanks for the presentation.

5722
07:25:49,050 --> 07:25:50,280
Exciting development.

5723
07:25:50,280 --> 07:25:53,370
I've driven past that parcel
of land for over 40 years,

5724
07:25:53,370 --> 07:25:55,830
and I always feel like it's
the last piece of the puzzle

5725
07:25:55,830 --> 07:25:57,900
for the north central part of the city.

5726
07:25:57,900 --> 07:25:59,190
And to make sure we get that

5727
07:25:59,190 --> 07:26:00,930
last piece of the puzzle correct,

5728
07:26:00,930 --> 07:26:03,360
I'm still unsure after the presentation

5729
07:26:03,360 --> 07:26:05,370
I heard from a couple of residents,

5730
07:26:05,370 --> 07:26:07,260
which demographic you're
actually targeting,

5731
07:26:07,260 --> 07:26:10,323
whether it be seniors or
Gen X or young families.

5732
07:26:11,430 --> 07:26:14,090
Regardless, the open
space, the green space

5733
07:26:14,090 --> 07:26:15,660
is part of the site plan.

5734
07:26:15,660 --> 07:26:17,370
Do you envision a parkland?

5735
07:26:17,370 --> 07:26:19,890
Because if it is seniors,
a lot of seniors babysit

5736
07:26:19,890 --> 07:26:21,570
their young grandchildren.

5737
07:26:21,570 --> 07:26:24,000
If it's young families, they'll
utilize that park space.

5738
07:26:24,000 --> 07:26:25,350
But when I look at that area,

5739
07:26:25,350 --> 07:26:27,120
the closest park I think is Cherry Hill.

5740
07:26:27,120 --> 07:26:30,000
But you're essentially building
a mini city within a city.

5741
07:26:30,000 --> 07:26:31,860
So I'm just wondering what the plans are

5742
07:26:31,860 --> 07:26:34,410
for that green space and
have you thought of that?

5743
07:26:34,410 --> 07:26:36,810
And what demographic are
you actually targeting

5744
07:26:36,810 --> 07:26:37,860
for this development?

5745
07:26:39,125 --> 07:26:41,340
- Yeah, I don't think there's
a specific demographic

5746
07:26:41,340 --> 07:26:42,173
we're targeting.

5747
07:26:42,173 --> 07:26:45,300
I mean, I can tell you our
discussions with Arterra,

5748
07:26:45,300 --> 07:26:47,820
they were very interested in the fact

5749
07:26:47,820 --> 07:26:50,850
that they're expanding their operations

5750
07:26:50,850 --> 07:26:54,300
and they could have their
employees live next door.

5751
07:26:54,300 --> 07:26:56,340
They were very excited with that fact.

5752
07:26:56,340 --> 07:27:00,810
So, you know, that demographic
would be younger you know,

5753
07:27:00,810 --> 07:27:04,500
maybe a bit older, but not seniors.

5754
07:27:04,500 --> 07:27:06,990
My understanding of the
projects that Butera family

5755
07:27:06,990 --> 07:27:11,220
have done elsewhere, there
really is a mix of demographics.

5756
07:27:11,220 --> 07:27:12,750
Mr. Allen would know better than I would.

5757
07:27:12,750 --> 07:27:14,010
He's been involved in most of them,

5758
07:27:14,010 --> 07:27:15,840
but there really is a mix.

5759
07:27:15,840 --> 07:27:18,480
In terms of the open space,

5760
07:27:18,480 --> 07:27:22,080
that's going to be during site plan stage.

5761
07:27:22,080 --> 07:27:25,020
It's up to you whether you want park

5762
07:27:25,020 --> 07:27:26,700
or do you want cash in lieu.

5763
07:27:26,700 --> 07:27:29,100
We'd prefer to have a park there.

5764
07:27:29,100 --> 07:27:32,280
But that's something that you're
going to have a big say in.

5765
07:27:32,280 --> 07:27:34,110
And I can tell you our preference

5766
07:27:34,110 --> 07:27:35,250
would be to have a park there.

5767
07:27:35,250 --> 07:27:37,410
It only improves the entire site,

5768
07:27:37,410 --> 07:27:41,285
makes it more beneficial
for the residents.

5769
07:27:41,285 --> 07:27:44,253
And so that's about all
I can say at this point.

5770
07:27:47,238 --> 07:27:50,430
(council members speaking faintly)

5771
07:27:50,430 --> 07:27:51,660
- It's growing.

5772
07:27:51,660 --> 07:27:53,430
And this feels like it's the
last piece of the puzzle.

5773
07:27:53,430 --> 07:27:55,440
So I'm in support of it, and
thanks for being here today.

5774
07:27:55,440 --> 07:27:56,340
- Thank you.

5775
07:27:56,340 --> 07:27:58,890
- Thank you. Councillor Patel.

5776
07:27:58,890 --> 07:27:59,723
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

5777
07:27:59,723 --> 07:28:02,130
To add to what Councillor
Dabrowski said, you know,

5778
07:28:02,130 --> 07:28:03,720
years ago there was the
Acres building sitting

5779
07:28:03,720 --> 07:28:05,007
there empty and it was abandoned.

5780
07:28:05,007 --> 07:28:06,840
And finally they took it down

5781
07:28:06,840 --> 07:28:08,580
and now something is going in that area.

5782
07:28:08,580 --> 07:28:09,570
So actually it's great

5783
07:28:09,570 --> 07:28:11,340
that something's going into that area.

5784
07:28:11,340 --> 07:28:12,870
My question for you, Mr. Vacca,

5785
07:28:12,870 --> 07:28:14,820
is this application has clearly evolved

5786
07:28:14,820 --> 07:28:16,320
through consultation.

5787
07:28:16,320 --> 07:28:19,050
What would you identify as
the most significant changes

5788
07:28:19,050 --> 07:28:21,150
made in response to concerns raised

5789
07:28:21,150 --> 07:28:23,400
by Arterra residents and/or staff?

5790
07:28:23,400 --> 07:28:24,993
What was the major improvement?

5791
07:28:25,950 --> 07:28:28,560
- Well, the major change vis-a-vis Arterra

5792
07:28:28,560 --> 07:28:32,850
was to give greater separation
from their operation.

5793
07:28:32,850 --> 07:28:36,670
So the original plan had it at 70 meters

5794
07:28:38,010 --> 07:28:41,553
which is the minimum distance
separation for class two.

5795
07:28:42,870 --> 07:28:45,750
And we've now increased it so that

5796
07:28:45,750 --> 07:28:48,120
all the buildings are at
least a hundred meters away

5797
07:28:48,120 --> 07:28:51,930
and some are as far as
171, I believe, 161.

5798
07:28:51,930 --> 07:28:55,050
161, so that was a major
part of what came out

5799
07:28:55,050 --> 07:28:56,640
of our discussions with Arterra.

5800
07:28:56,640 --> 07:28:59,280
They wanted more separation

5801
07:28:59,280 --> 07:29:02,490
and we were able to give
them more separation.

5802
07:29:02,490 --> 07:29:05,250
In fact, I think a
benefit of that discussion

5803
07:29:05,250 --> 07:29:09,370
was you now have the
majority of the buildings

5804
07:29:10,290 --> 07:29:12,840
basically backing onto the highway

5805
07:29:12,840 --> 07:29:14,847
as opposed to in the middle of the site.

5806
07:29:14,847 --> 07:29:17,610
And I think that helps
the neighborhood as well.

5807
07:29:17,610 --> 07:29:22,350
You now have an eight
and 14 story building

5808
07:29:22,350 --> 07:29:25,170
on Dorchester across from the existing

5809
07:29:25,170 --> 07:29:27,000
eight story condo building.

5810
07:29:27,000 --> 07:29:29,850
And you have the greater
height along the perimeter

5811
07:29:29,850 --> 07:29:31,740
backing onto the highway.

5812
07:29:31,740 --> 07:29:33,930
Now further away from those neighbors

5813
07:29:33,930 --> 07:29:36,060
because it's no longer in
the middle of the site,

5814
07:29:36,060 --> 07:29:37,020
it's on the perimeter.

5815
07:29:37,020 --> 07:29:39,370
So I think that was a big improvement

5816
07:29:40,504 --> 07:29:41,337
to the project.

5817
07:29:42,180 --> 07:29:44,760
- Thank you, and I love the green space

5818
07:29:44,760 --> 07:29:47,130
between all the buildings and parking.

5819
07:29:47,130 --> 07:29:51,300
Will the neighborhood, like
can neighbors will be able

5820
07:29:51,300 --> 07:29:53,400
to use the park if they want
to come from across the street?

5821
07:29:53,400 --> 07:29:54,233
- Absolutely,

5822
07:29:54,233 --> 07:29:56,670
yeah it's not going to
be a private condominium.

5823
07:29:56,670 --> 07:29:59,490
It'll be open to the public

5824
07:29:59,490 --> 07:30:00,900
and you're going to have a say

5825
07:30:00,900 --> 07:30:02,460
in terms of what you want to see there.

5826
07:30:02,460 --> 07:30:05,310
If you want to see a
parquette, cash in lieu,

5827
07:30:05,310 --> 07:30:07,590
or if you want to see a large park,

5828
07:30:07,590 --> 07:30:09,330
you're going to have that say.

5829
07:30:09,330 --> 07:30:11,680
- Perfect, thank you,
and one last question is,

5830
07:30:12,690 --> 07:30:15,270
it is the one of the biggest
development in our city,

5831
07:30:15,270 --> 07:30:16,500
in this site.

5832
07:30:16,500 --> 07:30:18,390
What makes this site perfect?

5833
07:30:18,390 --> 07:30:20,940
You think you can build this
development somewhere else?

5834
07:30:20,940 --> 07:30:23,010
Is it possible to move this
development somewhere else

5835
07:30:23,010 --> 07:30:25,866
or this site is what
makes this development?

5836
07:30:25,866 --> 07:30:28,230
- If you look at a map of
the City of Niagara Falls,

5837
07:30:28,230 --> 07:30:30,453
it's almost dead center in the city.

5838
07:30:31,290 --> 07:30:33,393
You have commercial around it.

5839
07:30:34,260 --> 07:30:36,690
You have easy access to the highway

5840
07:30:36,690 --> 07:30:39,900
if you want to go towards Toronto,

5841
07:30:39,900 --> 07:30:41,550
or if you want to go towards Fort Erie,

5842
07:30:41,550 --> 07:30:45,000
or if you want to go
towards the Tourist Centre.

5843
07:30:45,000 --> 07:30:46,470
Everything's right there.

5844
07:30:46,470 --> 07:30:51,210
So I think we'd be hard pressed
to find a better location

5845
07:30:51,210 --> 07:30:54,540
for this type of development
in the City of Niagara Falls,

5846
07:30:54,540 --> 07:30:56,400
maybe even in the region, quite frankly.

5847
07:30:56,400 --> 07:30:58,140
I just think it's a great site.

5848
07:30:58,140 --> 07:31:00,240
I'm really happy Loblaws didn't proceed

5849
07:31:00,240 --> 07:31:02,790
with their development because
it would have been another

5850
07:31:02,790 --> 07:31:07,200
large shopping center at that location.

5851
07:31:07,200 --> 07:31:10,170
Asphalt, as Councillor Kerrio said,

5852
07:31:10,170 --> 07:31:14,070
as opposed to having 1,782 families

5853
07:31:14,070 --> 07:31:17,733
living in purpose-built
rentals in a great location.

5854
07:31:18,990 --> 07:31:21,390
- Thank you, and as we
know that there's a holding

5855
07:31:21,390 --> 07:31:23,463
on the zoning application,

5856
07:31:24,360 --> 07:31:26,610
especially for the traffic mitigation.

5857
07:31:26,610 --> 07:31:30,420
So what happens if this traffic mitigation

5858
07:31:30,420 --> 07:31:32,220
doesn't go the way we want it to go?

5859
07:31:33,420 --> 07:31:35,220
- Well, we're going to have to comply

5860
07:31:35,220 --> 07:31:38,160
with whatever comes out of that report.

5861
07:31:38,160 --> 07:31:41,580
So if there's mitigation
we need to put in place,

5862
07:31:41,580 --> 07:31:42,810
then we're going to have to do it.

5863
07:31:42,810 --> 07:31:45,600
Otherwise, this development
doesn't proceed.

5864
07:31:45,600 --> 07:31:48,873
We're confident that the
Hs will all be lifted.

5865
07:31:49,920 --> 07:31:51,510
Our consultants are all confident

5866
07:31:51,510 --> 07:31:54,270
that the reports they're going to provide

5867
07:31:54,270 --> 07:31:56,670
will be satisfactory.

5868
07:31:56,670 --> 07:31:57,990
So we have no concern with that.

5869
07:31:57,990 --> 07:32:01,020
The problem, Councillor Patel, is time.

5870
07:32:01,020 --> 07:32:03,750
And that's why a sunset
clause starting three years

5871
07:32:03,750 --> 07:32:05,880
from when this by-law is approved,

5872
07:32:05,880 --> 07:32:07,950
quite frankly, is not
fair for this development.

5873
07:32:07,950 --> 07:32:08,940
Not at all.

5874
07:32:08,940 --> 07:32:10,530
You have commercial developments

5875
07:32:10,530 --> 07:32:13,740
that are not nearly as large as this,

5876
07:32:13,740 --> 07:32:17,253
and you give them four years
plus two year extensions.

5877
07:32:18,150 --> 07:32:21,450
And here, you know, we're
stuck with three years

5878
07:32:21,450 --> 07:32:25,200
plus one year at the discretion
of the planning director

5879
07:32:25,200 --> 07:32:29,430
in a situation where we
have an H on our zoning

5880
07:32:29,430 --> 07:32:32,370
until we complete at least three studies.

5881
07:32:32,370 --> 07:32:35,880
So that's the reason why I'm
requesting either, you know,

5882
07:32:35,880 --> 07:32:39,030
don't start the clock until
the Hs are all lifted,

5883
07:32:39,030 --> 07:32:41,610
because we're not going to
start designing the buildings

5884
07:32:41,610 --> 07:32:44,400
and going through site plan
until the Hs are lifted.

5885
07:32:44,400 --> 07:32:46,770
So that's dead time.

5886
07:32:46,770 --> 07:32:49,260
So again, we're asking
that the three years

5887
07:32:49,260 --> 07:32:51,063
start from when the Hs are lifted.

5888
07:32:52,230 --> 07:32:54,171
- That kind of makes sense to
me, but thank you very much.

5889
07:32:54,171 --> 07:32:55,320
- Thank you.

5890
07:32:55,320 --> 07:32:57,376
- Thank you. Councillor Lococo.

5891
07:32:57,376 --> 07:32:59,520
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
I had a few questions.

5892
07:32:59,520 --> 07:33:01,260
We've talked about numerous times

5893
07:33:01,260 --> 07:33:05,190
that it's purpose-built
rental, but yet in the report

5894
07:33:05,190 --> 07:33:08,850
it talks about offers to purchase
and any of the purchasers.

5895
07:33:08,850 --> 07:33:10,260
Through the mayor to Mr. Vacca.

5896
07:33:10,260 --> 07:33:12,003
Can we just clarify that?

5897
07:33:13,911 --> 07:33:15,870
- I think staff requires that

5898
07:33:15,870 --> 07:33:19,170
because you could start
as purpose built rentals

5899
07:33:19,170 --> 07:33:21,540
and then over time you
could convert the buildings

5900
07:33:21,540 --> 07:33:25,140
into condominiums and then sell the units.

5901
07:33:25,140 --> 07:33:27,690
So that's a further safeguard

5902
07:33:27,690 --> 07:33:30,300
that in the development agreement,

5903
07:33:30,300 --> 07:33:33,750
it will cover off
warning clauses in leases

5904
07:33:33,750 --> 07:33:35,910
and warning clauses in
any future agreements

5905
07:33:35,910 --> 07:33:37,260
of purchase and sale.

5906
07:33:37,260 --> 07:33:38,093
- Okay, great. Thank you.

5907
07:33:38,093 --> 07:33:40,080
- And that's also something
that quite frankly,

5908
07:33:40,080 --> 07:33:43,770
Arterra requested as well,
that it be dealt with in leases

5909
07:33:43,770 --> 07:33:46,143
and any future agreements
of purchase and sale.

5910
07:33:47,520 --> 07:33:51,900
The Butera family has no interest
in converting these units

5911
07:33:51,900 --> 07:33:52,770
and selling units.

5912
07:33:52,770 --> 07:33:54,540
That's not the business they're in.

5913
07:33:54,540 --> 07:33:56,400
They do purpose built rentals.

5914
07:33:56,400 --> 07:33:58,650
They manage their properties.

5915
07:33:58,650 --> 07:34:01,590
So I think there's no risk of
that happening, quite frankly.

5916
07:34:01,590 --> 07:34:02,610
- Thank you.

5917
07:34:02,610 --> 07:34:04,750
I want to go back to the three years

5918
07:34:07,080 --> 07:34:09,120
starting it when the H is lifted.

5919
07:34:09,120 --> 07:34:11,190
Maybe through the mayor to Ms. Dolch

5920
07:34:11,190 --> 07:34:13,500
or other planning staff.

5921
07:34:13,500 --> 07:34:15,148
What is your recommendation?

5922
07:34:15,148 --> 07:34:15,981
Are you okay with that?

5923
07:34:15,981 --> 07:34:19,800
They're asking, but we haven't
really talked to you yet.

5924
07:34:19,800 --> 07:34:21,810
- Thank you, Your Worship,
through you to the Councillor.

5925
07:34:21,810 --> 07:34:23,730
So I do have concerns with it

5926
07:34:23,730 --> 07:34:27,303
and I know they did ask us earlier today.

5927
07:34:28,510 --> 07:34:31,650
And my concern is just
that there's no time limit

5928
07:34:31,650 --> 07:34:33,480
on the removal of the holding.

5929
07:34:33,480 --> 07:34:36,780
So they could take four
years, five years, six years.

5930
07:34:36,780 --> 07:34:38,280
I don't know.

5931
07:34:38,280 --> 07:34:41,730
Obviously we do know that the
builder is an active builder,

5932
07:34:41,730 --> 07:34:45,090
but I just caution on that fact.

5933
07:34:45,090 --> 07:34:48,990
I think with the three plus
one years I'm happy to amend

5934
07:34:48,990 --> 07:34:51,540
the sunset policy that we have,

5935
07:34:51,540 --> 07:34:54,330
a planning policy that we
have to include study work

5936
07:34:54,330 --> 07:34:57,600
should that they need the
additional year extension,

5937
07:34:57,600 --> 07:34:59,670
that study work would be a factor.

5938
07:34:59,670 --> 07:35:02,310
Happy to amend that
internal policy for that

5939
07:35:02,310 --> 07:35:05,460
so that they would qualify
for that additional extension

5940
07:35:05,460 --> 07:35:07,860
should the study work take
longer than anticipated.

5941
07:35:07,860 --> 07:35:09,780
But most of the study work is an addendum

5942
07:35:09,780 --> 07:35:13,710
to the original work just
based on the updated concept.

5943
07:35:13,710 --> 07:35:18,710
So the only other option
would be to set a time limit

5944
07:35:19,290 --> 07:35:20,400
on the holding provisions,

5945
07:35:20,400 --> 07:35:23,310
but I don't think Mr. Vacca
would be overly agreeable

5946
07:35:23,310 --> 07:35:24,143
to that either.

5947
07:35:25,050 --> 07:35:25,883
- Okay. Thank you.

5948
07:35:25,883 --> 07:35:27,420
Through the mayor, I was
going to ask Mr. Vacca

5949
07:35:27,420 --> 07:35:28,980
if you were agreeable to that.

5950
07:35:28,980 --> 07:35:31,140
- You know what, Councillor Lococo,

5951
07:35:31,140 --> 07:35:33,180
I'm willing to negotiate that on the spot

5952
07:35:33,180 --> 07:35:37,290
given that the scale of
the development is larger

5953
07:35:37,290 --> 07:35:40,410
than any commercial
development you've approved.

5954
07:35:40,410 --> 07:35:43,260
And I was here to get two 60-storey towers

5955
07:35:43,260 --> 07:35:45,513
approved a couple years ago in Fallsview.

5956
07:35:47,460 --> 07:35:49,350
We'd be willing to accept.

5957
07:35:49,350 --> 07:35:52,260
Forget about the H and
when the clock starts.

5958
07:35:52,260 --> 07:35:54,150
Once the amending by-law's approved,

5959
07:35:54,150 --> 07:35:56,340
we'd be willing to accept what you give

5960
07:35:56,340 --> 07:35:57,810
the commercial developers.

5961
07:35:57,810 --> 07:36:01,320
Four years plus an extension of two years,

5962
07:36:01,320 --> 07:36:03,240
given the scale of the project.

5963
07:36:03,240 --> 07:36:04,120
- Okay, thank you.

5964
07:36:04,120 --> 07:36:06,600
Based on what you just said
about commercial developers,

5965
07:36:06,600 --> 07:36:09,720
I guess through the mayor,
maybe to Ms. Dolch again,

5966
07:36:09,720 --> 07:36:11,280
I know it's been stated that we have

5967
07:36:11,280 --> 07:36:12,567
a lot of residential property

5968
07:36:12,567 --> 07:36:15,450
and this was commercially zoned.

5969
07:36:15,450 --> 07:36:18,480
Why are we changing commercially
zoned to residential

5970
07:36:18,480 --> 07:36:20,433
at this stage if we have enough land?

5971
07:36:22,080 --> 07:36:23,340
- [Jim] Ms. Dolch?

5972
07:36:23,340 --> 07:36:24,173
- Thank you, Your Worship.

5973
07:36:24,173 --> 07:36:25,290
Through you to the Councillor.

5974
07:36:25,290 --> 07:36:29,130
So obviously this is a request
that they have put forward.

5975
07:36:29,130 --> 07:36:32,340
We assess it based on the
merits of the application.

5976
07:36:32,340 --> 07:36:35,610
We do have a lot of
residentially designated land.

5977
07:36:35,610 --> 07:36:37,080
This is a unique site.

5978
07:36:37,080 --> 07:36:39,390
Obviously, we did have concerns

5979
07:36:39,390 --> 07:36:42,720
with some of the industry surrounding it.

5980
07:36:42,720 --> 07:36:46,800
But there is a larger commercial
shopping mall to the north,

5981
07:36:46,800 --> 07:36:51,750
obviously with a number of
providers in that facility.

5982
07:36:51,750 --> 07:36:54,720
So it may be over.

5983
07:36:54,720 --> 07:36:56,430
There may be too much
commercial in this area,

5984
07:36:56,430 --> 07:36:58,230
and that's why this site
has sat for some time.

5985
07:36:58,230 --> 07:37:01,740
So we understand why
they have proposed it.

5986
07:37:01,740 --> 07:37:03,540
They are proposing additional commercial,

5987
07:37:03,540 --> 07:37:06,270
so they're just making a mixed use.

5988
07:37:06,270 --> 07:37:09,060
So we do support that mixed use.

5989
07:37:09,060 --> 07:37:12,990
Our concern was more the
concern with the industry

5990
07:37:12,990 --> 07:37:14,760
and the compatibility of it,

5991
07:37:14,760 --> 07:37:17,520
whether or not commercial
was more appropriate.

5992
07:37:17,520 --> 07:37:19,140
But we've been working through that

5993
07:37:19,140 --> 07:37:20,250
and have that holding provision

5994
07:37:20,250 --> 07:37:22,410
to make sure we're satisfied in the end.

5995
07:37:22,410 --> 07:37:23,430
- Okay, thank you.

5996
07:37:23,430 --> 07:37:25,740
I want to talk about
taxes, through the mayor,

5997
07:37:25,740 --> 07:37:27,750
Councillor Nieuwesteeg
was talking about taxes

5998
07:37:27,750 --> 07:37:30,900
about where we are now,
81,000 to get the 5.5 million

5999
07:37:30,900 --> 07:37:33,660
and that would be less taxes.

6000
07:37:33,660 --> 07:37:38,070
I just want to clarify and
verify if we get 5.5 million,

6001
07:37:38,070 --> 07:37:40,980
it's not going to be reducing
our taxes the way we are now.

6002
07:37:40,980 --> 07:37:44,160
We're going to spend that
5.5 million on other things.

6003
07:37:44,160 --> 07:37:46,830
It's not reducing the taxes
that we currently have.

6004
07:37:46,830 --> 07:37:49,200
Can somebody, because I know what I-

6005
07:37:49,200 --> 07:37:51,330
- That's up to this council what we do.

6006
07:37:51,330 --> 07:37:53,400
So maybe we'll go to Ms. Clark.

6007
07:37:53,400 --> 07:37:55,770
Or maybe we'll go to our CAO.

6008
07:37:55,770 --> 07:37:58,053
Another $5 million of property taxes.

6009
07:38:00,300 --> 07:38:01,680
- Yeah, and I caution everyone

6010
07:38:01,680 --> 07:38:03,420
with the $5 million of the property taxes.

6011
07:38:03,420 --> 07:38:05,640
We don't verify if it's
based upon market value,

6012
07:38:05,640 --> 07:38:07,143
that's not how MPAC assess it.

6013
07:38:08,879 --> 07:38:12,207
You know, in comparison,
the Hilton is 1.3 million.

6014
07:38:13,350 --> 07:38:15,840
- [Tiffany] The Hilton pays
property tax of 5.5 million.

6015
07:38:15,840 --> 07:38:18,570
I also want to clarify that
I believe Mr. Vacca misspoke.

6016
07:38:18,570 --> 07:38:22,080
That is not the city
portion, that is total taxes.

6017
07:38:22,080 --> 07:38:23,370
- [Rocky] I think if you do the math,

6018
07:38:23,370 --> 07:38:25,440
the assessment's going to be.

6019
07:38:25,440 --> 07:38:27,274
- [Tiffany] We did do the math.

6020
07:38:27,274 --> 07:38:28,950
- So just be careful with the 5.5 on it,

6021
07:38:28,950 --> 07:38:30,750
but whatever is the incremental amount,

6022
07:38:30,750 --> 07:38:33,000
it would be a significant
incremental amount.

6023
07:38:33,000 --> 07:38:36,270
Each year in the budget
process, we always add on growth

6024
07:38:36,270 --> 07:38:37,620
and we disclose to council

6025
07:38:37,620 --> 07:38:40,353
what the growth is on the budget increase.

6026
07:38:41,550 --> 07:38:45,330
We have certain policies in
there where we take the growth

6027
07:38:45,330 --> 07:38:49,920
and offset it to OLG, the
subsidy on the OLG revenue

6028
07:38:49,920 --> 07:38:53,910
and/or as the mayor says,
council can direct that

6029
07:38:53,910 --> 07:38:55,590
to either offset taxes

6030
07:38:55,590 --> 07:38:59,040
or to invest into capital or reserves.

6031
07:38:59,040 --> 07:39:02,140
So this is just like any other
development that comes online

6032
07:39:03,420 --> 07:39:04,353
to the city.

6033
07:39:06,690 --> 07:39:08,760
That feeds into the revenue
and council can decide

6034
07:39:08,760 --> 07:39:11,910
how to spend that budget.

6035
07:39:11,910 --> 07:39:14,280
Just be careful with the 5.5
million is all I would say.

6036
07:39:14,280 --> 07:39:15,853
- Thank you. Completely understand.

6037
07:39:15,853 --> 07:39:17,730
It's just when I heard less taxes,

6038
07:39:17,730 --> 07:39:19,710
residents are going to think,
oh, if we approve this,

6039
07:39:19,710 --> 07:39:21,210
they're going to have less taxes to pay.

6040
07:39:21,210 --> 07:39:23,550
So I just wanted to be careful there.

6041
07:39:23,550 --> 07:39:26,280
The money does go for other
things. I do get that.

6042
07:39:26,280 --> 07:39:27,733
Those are all my
questions for now. Thanks.

6043
07:39:27,733 --> 07:39:30,933
- Thank you. Councillor
Pietrangelo, then Baldinelli.

6044
07:39:32,070 --> 07:39:34,140
- Yeah, thanks, Your Worship.

6045
07:39:34,140 --> 07:39:35,850
I know Councillor Lococo just talked about

6046
07:39:35,850 --> 07:39:36,774
the sunset clause.

6047
07:39:36,774 --> 07:39:39,000
I was going to make some
comments on that as well.

6048
07:39:39,000 --> 07:39:40,823
I heard Ms. Dolch speak.

6049
07:39:41,685 --> 07:39:43,174
I mean, I'm in support of the project.

6050
07:39:43,174 --> 07:39:47,280
I wouldn't want to do anything
to handcuff the developer

6051
07:39:47,280 --> 07:39:49,890
from, you know, missing the timeframe.

6052
07:39:49,890 --> 07:39:52,590
I think Mr. Vacca is correct
when he says that, you know,

6053
07:39:52,590 --> 07:39:57,510
we give larger commercial
buildings a longer time span.

6054
07:39:57,510 --> 07:40:00,780
So I would definitely be
in favor of extending that

6055
07:40:00,780 --> 07:40:05,070
or even starting the clock
once the H symbol comes off.

6056
07:40:05,070 --> 07:40:06,930
I'm amenable to any of those

6057
07:40:06,930 --> 07:40:08,490
in regards to the sunset clause.

6058
07:40:08,490 --> 07:40:11,629
In regards to the taxes,
Your Worship, I know,

6059
07:40:11,629 --> 07:40:13,890
you know, there's been
some talk back and forth

6060
07:40:13,890 --> 07:40:16,590
about how the city's going to benefit.

6061
07:40:16,590 --> 07:40:19,560
I kind of think at it at
a different angle really.

6062
07:40:19,560 --> 07:40:22,290
And to me, it's all about
infrastructure renewal.

6063
07:40:22,290 --> 07:40:26,160
I mean, if we're going
to put 1,782 units here

6064
07:40:26,160 --> 07:40:27,510
or families here,

6065
07:40:27,510 --> 07:40:29,190
you know, Niagara Falls is predominantly

6066
07:40:29,190 --> 07:40:30,810
single family homes.

6067
07:40:30,810 --> 07:40:33,030
To get 1,800 homes, you're talking about

6068
07:40:33,030 --> 07:40:34,800
multiple subdivisions.

6069
07:40:34,800 --> 07:40:37,200
And when I equate that
in my head right away,

6070
07:40:37,200 --> 07:40:40,530
to me, that's like kilometers
and kilometers of roads

6071
07:40:40,530 --> 07:40:43,140
and sidewalks and street
lights and water pipes

6072
07:40:43,140 --> 07:40:43,980
and sewer pipes.

6073
07:40:43,980 --> 07:40:45,990
And if you look at this development here,

6074
07:40:45,990 --> 07:40:49,710
you don't even have like one
kilometer in total of road

6075
07:40:49,710 --> 07:40:51,750
or one kilometer in total of sidewalks.

6076
07:40:51,750 --> 07:40:54,180
So it's infrastructure renewal as well.

6077
07:40:54,180 --> 07:40:56,700
And in the future, that's
really where we benefit

6078
07:40:56,700 --> 07:40:58,350
because we don't have
to spend as much money

6079
07:40:58,350 --> 07:41:00,300
of people's taxes.

6080
07:41:00,300 --> 07:41:02,550
Don't end up going towards
infrastructure renewal.

6081
07:41:02,550 --> 07:41:06,013
So Your Worship, I'm in
full support of the project.

6082
07:41:06,013 --> 07:41:07,110
I have no other comments.

6083
07:41:07,110 --> 07:41:08,610
I'll definitely vote in favor of it

6084
07:41:08,610 --> 07:41:10,511
when you close the meeting.

6085
07:41:10,511 --> 07:41:12,731
- Thank you. Councillor Baldinelli.

6086
07:41:12,731 --> 07:41:13,564
- Thank you, through your mayor,

6087
07:41:13,564 --> 07:41:16,753
thank you very much for the
presentation, it's very good.

6088
07:41:16,753 --> 07:41:20,610
I'm also in support of the clock starting

6089
07:41:20,610 --> 07:41:22,653
as well after the H has been removed.

6090
07:41:23,922 --> 07:41:26,490
I really look at, and it's
my old stomping grounds

6091
07:41:26,490 --> 07:41:27,840
for soccer, Acres.

6092
07:41:27,840 --> 07:41:29,220
That's where I started playing soccer

6093
07:41:29,220 --> 07:41:30,300
and I still remember that grounds.

6094
07:41:30,300 --> 07:41:33,960
And I've always wondered
why it never really took off

6095
07:41:33,960 --> 07:41:35,040
and anything was built there.

6096
07:41:35,040 --> 07:41:39,390
But anyways mitigation
efforts for even when

6097
07:41:39,390 --> 07:41:42,150
the Chef Boyardee property was built.

6098
07:41:42,150 --> 07:41:46,500
We had a big problem with rats spreading.

6099
07:41:46,500 --> 07:41:48,960
So once you start, just spreads.

6100
07:41:48,960 --> 07:41:51,330
Will you be performing any
kind of mitigation efforts

6101
07:41:51,330 --> 07:41:54,870
to remove that problem before you begin?

6102
07:41:54,870 --> 07:41:58,320
So you have all these years
before you remove the H

6103
07:41:58,320 --> 07:41:59,730
to possibly get rid of it

6104
07:41:59,730 --> 07:42:03,355
because all you're going to
do is push it everywhere else.

6105
07:42:03,355 --> 07:42:05,825
And I think the citizens around the area

6106
07:42:05,825 --> 07:42:07,380
that it's being built
would be really happy

6107
07:42:07,380 --> 07:42:11,920
if you can get rid of that
problem first and then build.

6108
07:42:11,920 --> 07:42:14,970
- Okay, I'm going to ask
the Project Pied Piper,

6109
07:42:14,970 --> 07:42:16,751
Mike Allen to address that.

6110
07:42:16,751 --> 07:42:19,980
(audience laughs)

6111
07:42:19,980 --> 07:42:20,813
- Through Your Worship.

6112
07:42:20,813 --> 07:42:21,960
As I said earlier,

6113
07:42:21,960 --> 07:42:24,360
as we get into the site plan agreement,

6114
07:42:24,360 --> 07:42:28,320
we need to have certain plans
and schedules put in place.

6115
07:42:28,320 --> 07:42:31,680
So the rat mitigation control plan

6116
07:42:31,680 --> 07:42:33,690
is one that's going to
have to be established

6117
07:42:33,690 --> 07:42:35,100
before we even commence.

6118
07:42:35,100 --> 07:42:37,250
Same as post and pre-construction surveys

6119
07:42:37,250 --> 07:42:39,000
of the surrounding areas.

6120
07:42:39,000 --> 07:42:41,790
So to answer your question,
yes, it'll be dealt with.

6121
07:42:41,790 --> 07:42:44,427
- Thank you, I'm looking
forward to the project

6122
07:42:44,427 --> 07:42:47,430
and I hope everybody else is
around the city, thank you.

6123
07:42:47,430 --> 07:42:48,630
- Thank you, Councillor.

6124
07:42:48,630 --> 07:42:51,330
Any other questions,
oh, Councillor Kerrio.

6125
07:42:51,330 --> 07:42:52,823
- Thank you, Your Worship.

6126
07:42:52,823 --> 07:42:54,840
I'd just like to congratulate the team.

6127
07:42:54,840 --> 07:42:57,567
This is a fantastic proposal.

6128
07:42:57,567 --> 07:42:58,860
You know, for those of us that were around

6129
07:42:58,860 --> 07:43:02,610
when Acres was here and when Acres closed,

6130
07:43:02,610 --> 07:43:03,690
it made a lot of us sad.

6131
07:43:03,690 --> 07:43:06,363
It was a great industry
to have. It was quiet.

6132
07:43:08,100 --> 07:43:11,070
Provided jobs. But this
ticks all the boxes.

6133
07:43:11,070 --> 07:43:14,070
I can't believe we're not
just over the top excited

6134
07:43:14,070 --> 07:43:15,270
about this.

6135
07:43:15,270 --> 07:43:16,560
Housing, we need housing.

6136
07:43:16,560 --> 07:43:18,630
They're bringing the
biggest housing project

6137
07:43:18,630 --> 07:43:20,220
that the city's ever seen.

6138
07:43:20,220 --> 07:43:23,160
Jobs, we need jobs. They're
bringing jobs. Great jobs.

6139
07:43:23,160 --> 07:43:25,560
Construction jobs, jobs
that's going to work

6140
07:43:25,560 --> 07:43:27,600
on the project after it's completed.

6141
07:43:27,600 --> 07:43:28,980
We need tax revenue.

6142
07:43:28,980 --> 07:43:31,650
Now I'm not sure how
much revenue this council

6143
07:43:31,650 --> 07:43:34,170
would ever have to have
where it could reduce taxes,

6144
07:43:34,170 --> 07:43:36,930
but at least this is a start.

6145
07:43:36,930 --> 07:43:40,500
And the, you know, the development charges

6146
07:43:40,500 --> 07:43:41,790
that we're going to get in,

6147
07:43:41,790 --> 07:43:43,537
it's up to this council to
decide if we're going to,

6148
07:43:43,537 --> 07:43:46,620
you know, save some
money and not spend it.

6149
07:43:46,620 --> 07:43:49,230
They're bringing in the most
money that I could imagine

6150
07:43:49,230 --> 07:43:50,880
that they could bring in on this site.

6151
07:43:50,880 --> 07:43:54,580
The green space. If I was
a neighbor, I'd be ecstatic

6152
07:43:55,554 --> 07:43:56,880
to live across the street from this.

6153
07:43:56,880 --> 07:44:00,090
Take a piece of land that's weeds

6154
07:44:00,090 --> 07:44:02,609
and some of the neighbors said has rats,

6155
07:44:02,609 --> 07:44:04,800
and they're going to look
outside and see this green space,

6156
07:44:04,800 --> 07:44:06,150
these beautiful buildings.

6157
07:44:06,150 --> 07:44:07,410
They're going to address the problems,

6158
07:44:07,410 --> 07:44:09,690
the concerns that the neighbors have.

6159
07:44:09,690 --> 07:44:11,940
This is just an exciting proposal.

6160
07:44:11,940 --> 07:44:16,230
I'm very proud to know the
owners and the developers.

6161
07:44:16,230 --> 07:44:19,650
And I feel bad that
they've had to go through

6162
07:44:19,650 --> 07:44:21,060
what they've had to go through

6163
07:44:21,060 --> 07:44:22,620
to get this thing off the ground.

6164
07:44:22,620 --> 07:44:26,490
I can't imagine that the winery
gave them any grief at all.

6165
07:44:26,490 --> 07:44:31,050
You know, I'd love to
have 2,000 or 2,500 people

6166
07:44:31,050 --> 07:44:34,383
that probably most of them
drink wine put in my backyard.

6167
07:44:35,760 --> 07:44:36,600
I can't imagine.

6168
07:44:36,600 --> 07:44:39,338
Anyway, they came to an
agreement, which is great.

6169
07:44:39,338 --> 07:44:40,560
I think this is great for everyone.

6170
07:44:40,560 --> 07:44:42,870
Absolutely fantastic for the city.

6171
07:44:42,870 --> 07:44:45,210
You know, we're going to
be the envy of many cities

6172
07:44:45,210 --> 07:44:47,010
that would love to have this project.

6173
07:44:47,010 --> 07:44:49,500
I'm certainly proud to get
this project in our community.

6174
07:44:49,500 --> 07:44:51,900
And congratulations to everyone concerned,

6175
07:44:51,900 --> 07:44:54,300
including our staff that's
helped put it together.

6176
07:44:54,300 --> 07:44:55,680
- Thank you, Councillor Kerrio.

6177
07:44:55,680 --> 07:44:58,170
And I'll just close off with
a couple other comments.

6178
07:44:58,170 --> 07:45:02,040
And I do want to compliment
Arterra. They came to the table.

6179
07:45:02,040 --> 07:45:05,520
They've been there 150 years.
They've got hundreds of jobs.

6180
07:45:05,520 --> 07:45:08,460
And the president of the company himself

6181
07:45:08,460 --> 07:45:11,010
virtually attended the
meeting and worked through

6182
07:45:11,010 --> 07:45:12,990
all of the things they had concerns with

6183
07:45:12,990 --> 07:45:16,440
and credit to the group, the Butera Group.

6184
07:45:16,440 --> 07:45:18,750
They dealt with every
one of their concerns

6185
07:45:18,750 --> 07:45:19,890
to their satisfaction.

6186
07:45:19,890 --> 07:45:23,430
So that was win-win. And as
you say, good opportunity.

6187
07:45:23,430 --> 07:45:24,630
There'll be all these people living there

6188
07:45:24,630 --> 07:45:26,520
that'll probably shop at their store

6189
07:45:26,520 --> 07:45:28,700
and also work potentially at Arterra.

6190
07:45:28,700 --> 07:45:31,320
So it was a nice meeting of the minds

6191
07:45:31,320 --> 07:45:34,676
and coming up with what was
best and also to our staff.

6192
07:45:34,676 --> 07:45:35,509
You know, they had a juggle.

6193
07:45:35,509 --> 07:45:37,590
This was a big project, as you say,

6194
07:45:37,590 --> 07:45:40,230
probably the biggest in
the history of the region

6195
07:45:40,230 --> 07:45:43,020
to have something like this come together

6196
07:45:43,020 --> 07:45:44,820
and to be accepted the way that it was.

6197
07:45:44,820 --> 07:45:46,650
And we're grateful that
everybody came together.

6198
07:45:46,650 --> 07:45:49,410
So it wasn't easy, but they
definitely came together.

6199
07:45:49,410 --> 07:45:51,690
We're grateful. We need
houses. We need jobs.

6200
07:45:51,690 --> 07:45:53,790
We need revenue. It's
exactly the kind of thing

6201
07:45:53,790 --> 07:45:56,730
that we need in a hometown boy

6202
07:45:56,730 --> 07:45:59,070
that's decided to do this here.

6203
07:45:59,070 --> 07:45:59,910
I mean, we're lucky.

6204
07:45:59,910 --> 07:46:01,980
You know, people are
trying to get Mr. Butera

6205
07:46:01,980 --> 07:46:04,800
to build these all across
Canada and he's here.

6206
07:46:04,800 --> 07:46:07,350
So it's a nice way to
have a signature building.

6207
07:46:07,350 --> 07:46:10,230
So with these public
comments and the input

6208
07:46:10,230 --> 07:46:12,600
and the questions and everything else,

6209
07:46:12,600 --> 07:46:14,160
the official, the public meeting

6210
07:46:14,160 --> 07:46:15,747
with respect to the proposed official plan

6211
07:46:15,747 --> 07:46:19,140
and zoning by-law
amendment is now concluded.

6212
07:46:19,140 --> 07:46:22,140
We go to Councillor Kerrio
and I'm going to go.

6213
07:46:22,140 --> 07:46:24,450
Okay, and did you want
to make the amendment

6214
07:46:24,450 --> 07:46:29,400
on the sunset clause with the
removal of the H programs?

6215
07:46:29,400 --> 07:46:30,511
Yes?

6216
07:46:30,511 --> 07:46:31,344
(council member speaking faintly)

6217
07:46:31,344 --> 07:46:32,400
Until after the H is lifted.

6218
07:46:32,400 --> 07:46:35,940
And I'm going to go to
Councillor Pietrangelo

6219
07:46:35,940 --> 07:46:37,560
for the second on that.

6220
07:46:37,560 --> 07:46:39,660
And if there's no further
discussion to that,

6221
07:46:39,660 --> 07:46:40,493
we'll call the vote.

6222
07:46:40,493 --> 07:46:43,200
All those in favor. Okay. Opposed?

6223
07:46:43,200 --> 07:46:45,060
Okay, with one opposed.

6224
07:46:45,060 --> 07:46:47,280
Congratulations. We look
forward to your development.

6225
07:46:47,280 --> 07:46:48,113
Thank you very much.

6226
07:46:48,113 --> 07:46:49,373
- [Rocky] Thank you very much.
- Thank you.

6227
07:46:51,238 --> 07:46:54,405
(audience chattering)

6228
07:47:05,580 --> 07:47:07,290
- [Council Member] Now do we
get a break? Direct time out.

6229
07:47:07,290 --> 07:47:08,310
- Yeah, we'll just take a couple minutes.

6230
07:47:08,310 --> 07:47:10,160
Just don't leave though. Don't leave.

6231
07:47:11,100 --> 07:47:12,903
Oh yeah, go, go, go. Go pee.

6232
07:47:14,490 --> 07:47:17,370
Okay. We'll just take
five minute recess, folks.

6233
07:47:17,370 --> 07:47:19,370
Five minutes, and we'll come right back.

6234
08:02:54,677 --> 08:02:57,133
- All right, thank you all.
We just had a short recess.

6235
08:02:57,133 --> 08:02:58,680
(Jim speaking faintly)

6236
08:02:58,680 --> 08:03:00,630
All right all, we just
are going to start again

6237
08:03:00,630 --> 08:03:01,950
after a short recess.

6238
08:03:01,950 --> 08:03:03,567
We're going to move to item 8.2

6239
08:03:04,590 --> 08:03:06,270
for anyone following along on the agenda.

6240
08:03:06,270 --> 08:03:07,830
So I'll now go to our clerk

6241
08:03:07,830 --> 08:03:09,530
and ask him to introduce the item.

6242
08:03:13,890 --> 08:03:15,390
- A public meeting is now being convened

6243
08:03:15,390 --> 08:03:17,310
to consider a draft plan of subdivision

6244
08:03:17,310 --> 08:03:18,930
and to consider a proposed amendment

6245
08:03:18,930 --> 08:03:21,930
to the city's zoning by-law
to permit the development

6246
08:03:21,930 --> 08:03:25,590
of between 244 and 296 dwelling units

6247
08:03:25,590 --> 08:03:28,230
on the vacant parcel of
land south of McLeod Road,

6248
08:03:28,230 --> 08:03:31,740
fronting onto both Kalar
Road and Pin Oak Drive.

6249
08:03:31,740 --> 08:03:33,360
Notice was given by first class mail

6250
08:03:33,360 --> 08:03:37,440
in accordance with the
Planning Act on July 22nd, 2026

6251
08:03:37,440 --> 08:03:40,290
and by posting a sign on
the property in question.

6252
08:03:40,290 --> 08:03:42,330
Anyone who wants notice the
passing of the draft plan

6253
08:03:42,330 --> 08:03:44,790
of subdivision and the
zoning by-law amendment

6254
08:03:44,790 --> 08:03:46,590
or preserve their opportunity to appeal

6255
08:03:46,590 --> 08:03:48,180
to the Ontario Land Tribunal

6256
08:03:48,180 --> 08:03:50,490
with regards to the
zoning by-law amendment,

6257
08:03:50,490 --> 08:03:52,020
shall give notice to the city clerk

6258
08:03:52,020 --> 08:03:54,030
immediately after today's public meeting

6259
08:03:54,030 --> 08:03:55,620
or by signing the sign-in sheets

6260
08:03:55,620 --> 08:03:58,530
located just outside council chamber.

6261
08:03:58,530 --> 08:03:59,370
- Thank you Mr. Clerk.

6262
08:03:59,370 --> 08:04:03,660
And just before we do proceed
just as another reminder,

6263
08:04:03,660 --> 08:04:05,640
we've announced it several times tonight.

6264
08:04:05,640 --> 08:04:08,520
Anyone here for the Grassy
Brook secondary plan

6265
08:04:08,520 --> 08:04:11,430
that has been deferred until November.

6266
08:04:11,430 --> 08:04:14,970
We had a technical issue and council voted

6267
08:04:14,970 --> 08:04:17,310
much earlier in the meeting
to defer it to November.

6268
08:04:17,310 --> 08:04:18,813
So if anyone's here for that,

6269
08:04:20,370 --> 08:04:22,410
please receive that as your notice.

6270
08:04:22,410 --> 08:04:26,220
So I will now go to Mackenzie
Ceci, senior planner,

6271
08:04:26,220 --> 08:04:30,060
current development, to
provide and explain the purpose

6272
08:04:30,060 --> 08:04:33,723
and reason for the proposed
draft plan and by-law amendment.

6273
08:04:37,320 --> 08:04:38,153
- Thank you.

6274
08:04:38,153 --> 08:04:41,250
Good afternoon, Mayor, council,
staff and area residents.

6275
08:04:41,250 --> 08:04:42,810
Thank you for joining the public meeting

6276
08:04:42,810 --> 08:04:44,157
for the zoning by-law
amendment and draft plan

6277
08:04:44,157 --> 08:04:46,860
and subdivision applications
for the vacant land

6278
08:04:46,860 --> 08:04:49,503
situated between Kalar
Road and Pin Oak Drive.

6279
08:04:54,630 --> 08:04:56,310
The subject lands which
are currently vacant

6280
08:04:56,310 --> 08:04:59,160
are approximately 13.51 hectares in size

6281
08:04:59,160 --> 08:05:01,860
and are located on the
south of McLeod Road

6282
08:05:01,860 --> 08:05:04,650
having frontage on both
Kalar Road and Pin Oak Drive.

6283
08:05:04,650 --> 08:05:06,510
Surrounding land uses include to the north

6284
08:05:06,510 --> 08:05:08,640
Niagara Peninsula Energy Inc.

6285
08:05:08,640 --> 08:05:10,890
Coach Canada, commercial uses,

6286
08:05:10,890 --> 08:05:13,540
existing and proposed residential uses

6287
08:05:14,550 --> 08:05:16,050
provincially significant wetlands,

6288
08:05:16,050 --> 08:05:18,210
and vacant lands zoned for residential

6289
08:05:18,210 --> 08:05:19,650
and light industrial uses.

6290
08:05:19,650 --> 08:05:22,260
To the south are provincially
significant wetlands,

6291
08:05:22,260 --> 08:05:24,213
vacant land zoned light industrial,

6292
08:05:26,700 --> 08:05:28,260
and lands approved for the development

6293
08:05:28,260 --> 08:05:30,420
of 84 back to back townhouse dwellings

6294
08:05:30,420 --> 08:05:32,880
and 29 block townhouse dwellings.

6295
08:05:32,880 --> 08:05:35,130
To the east is Pin Oak Drive, Costco,

6296
08:05:35,130 --> 08:05:38,430
and commercial uses in the
Niagara Square Retail District.

6297
08:05:38,430 --> 08:05:40,170
And to the west is Kalar Road,

6298
08:05:40,170 --> 08:05:42,420
residential uses including
detached dwellings

6299
08:05:42,420 --> 08:05:44,220
and two four-storey apartment dwellings

6300
08:05:44,220 --> 08:05:47,730
and vacant institutional
lands at 7425 Kalar Road,

6301
08:05:47,730 --> 08:05:51,000
which are intended for
a new elementary school

6302
08:05:51,000 --> 08:05:53,100
by Niagara Catholic District School Board.

6303
08:05:55,380 --> 08:05:57,180
An environmental impact study and addendum

6304
08:05:57,180 --> 08:05:58,560
were submitted with the applications

6305
08:05:58,560 --> 08:06:00,870
and identified the presence
of significant woodlands,

6306
08:06:00,870 --> 08:06:03,450
significant wetlands,
significant wildlife habitat

6307
08:06:03,450 --> 08:06:06,120
and fish habitat on the subject lands.

6308
08:06:06,120 --> 08:06:09,030
A realignment of the
tributary of Warren Creek

6309
08:06:09,030 --> 08:06:11,490
is proposed to facilitate the development.

6310
08:06:11,490 --> 08:06:13,110
The environmental impact study conclude

6311
08:06:13,110 --> 08:06:15,270
that no negative impacts are anticipated

6312
08:06:15,270 --> 08:06:17,490
once the wetland compensation is complete.

6313
08:06:17,490 --> 08:06:19,650
And it is further noted
that the main channel

6314
08:06:19,650 --> 08:06:21,900
of Warren Creek on the
west side of Kalar Road

6315
08:06:21,900 --> 08:06:24,660
has been realigned in
the past to facilitate

6316
08:06:24,660 --> 08:06:26,910
the phases of Warren Woods subdivision.

6317
08:06:26,910 --> 08:06:28,860
The proposed channel corridor realignment

6318
08:06:28,860 --> 08:06:31,800
is consistent with this
established approach.

6319
08:06:31,800 --> 08:06:34,020
And you'll notice that the watercourse

6320
08:06:34,020 --> 08:06:36,540
that I am mentioning is located

6321
08:06:36,540 --> 08:06:39,453
across the northwest corner of the site.

6322
08:06:43,140 --> 08:06:46,200
The subject lands are designated
residential medium density

6323
08:06:46,200 --> 08:06:47,760
and environmental protection area

6324
08:06:47,760 --> 08:06:50,400
in accordance with the
Garner South secondary plan.

6325
08:06:50,400 --> 08:06:52,470
The residential medium density designation

6326
08:06:52,470 --> 08:06:55,920
is reserved for development
of a mix of housing types

6327
08:06:55,920 --> 08:06:58,290
and a minimum density
of 50 units per hectare

6328
08:06:58,290 --> 08:07:01,350
and a maximum density
of 75 units per hectare

6329
08:07:01,350 --> 08:07:04,020
with building heights not
exceeding four storeys.

6330
08:07:04,020 --> 08:07:05,940
The lands are impacted by Warren Creek

6331
08:07:05,940 --> 08:07:08,930
and its 100 year
floodplain as well as areas

6332
08:07:08,930 --> 08:07:10,560
of provincially significant wetlands

6333
08:07:10,560 --> 08:07:13,140
associated with Warren
Creek wetland complex

6334
08:07:13,140 --> 08:07:14,850
and their 30 meter buffers.

6335
08:07:14,850 --> 08:07:17,370
An official plan
amendment is not requested

6336
08:07:17,370 --> 08:07:20,040
or required to facilitate
the proposed development

6337
08:07:20,040 --> 08:07:21,690
provided that the minimum density target

6338
08:07:21,690 --> 08:07:23,613
of 50 units per hectare is achieved.

6339
08:07:26,160 --> 08:07:28,920
The subject lands are zoned
light industrial zone currently

6340
08:07:28,920 --> 08:07:31,110
and a zoning by-law amendment
application is proposed

6341
08:07:31,110 --> 08:07:32,400
to rezone the subject lands

6342
08:07:32,400 --> 08:07:34,470
to a site specific residential mix zone,

6343
08:07:34,470 --> 08:07:35,760
which is shown in yellow,

6344
08:07:35,760 --> 08:07:39,060
which would be for on-street
townhouse dwellings.

6345
08:07:39,060 --> 08:07:41,100
Site specific residential low density,

6346
08:07:41,100 --> 08:07:43,140
which would be for block
townhouse dwellings

6347
08:07:43,140 --> 08:07:45,450
and is shown in orange on the slide.

6348
08:07:45,450 --> 08:07:48,480
Site specific residential
apartment 5C density zone,

6349
08:07:48,480 --> 08:07:51,150
which is shown in red, which
would likely be in the form

6350
08:07:51,150 --> 08:07:52,680
of apartment dwellings.

6351
08:07:52,680 --> 08:07:54,510
Site specific open space zone,

6352
08:07:54,510 --> 08:07:56,283
which is shown as the bright green.

6353
08:07:57,247 --> 08:07:58,080
And in the dark green

6354
08:07:58,080 --> 08:08:00,903
is the environmental
protection area zones.

6355
08:08:02,640 --> 08:08:04,560
The draft plan of subdivision.

6356
08:08:04,560 --> 08:08:07,110
Application proposes to
subdivide the subject lands

6357
08:08:07,110 --> 08:08:08,760
into 38 blocks.

6358
08:08:08,760 --> 08:08:12,420
So 25 blocks for 139
on-street townhouse dwellings,

6359
08:08:12,420 --> 08:08:15,240
two blocks for medium
density residential units,

6360
08:08:15,240 --> 08:08:17,610
two blocks to accommodate
a watercourse realignment

6361
08:08:17,610 --> 08:08:18,443
as I mentioned.

6362
08:08:18,443 --> 08:08:23,210
So that's blocks 31 and 32
along the west lot line.

6363
08:08:24,840 --> 08:08:27,540
One block to accommodate a
stormwater management pond.

6364
08:08:27,540 --> 08:08:29,820
Five blocks for environmental
protection purposes.

6365
08:08:29,820 --> 08:08:33,000
So that's for the wetlands
and their buffers.

6366
08:08:33,000 --> 08:08:36,903
Three blocks for open space
purposes and two public streets.

6367
08:08:38,670 --> 08:08:41,850
An open house was held on July 7th, 2026.

6368
08:08:41,850 --> 08:08:44,220
No members of the public
were in attendance.

6369
08:08:44,220 --> 08:08:46,590
Written comments were submitted
by one member of the public

6370
08:08:46,590 --> 08:08:48,780
concerning traffic
conflicts on McLeod Road

6371
08:08:48,780 --> 08:08:50,910
at the Petro Canada driveway.

6372
08:08:50,910 --> 08:08:53,310
Transportation services
staff have been in contact

6373
08:08:53,310 --> 08:08:55,470
with the resident and
will review to determine

6374
08:08:55,470 --> 08:08:57,840
if additional measures or
modifications to the median

6375
08:08:57,840 --> 08:08:59,640
are warranted at a future date.

6376
08:08:59,640 --> 08:09:02,490
However, it's noted that
this is an existing issue

6377
08:09:02,490 --> 08:09:05,790
and is outside of the scope of
the development application.

6378
08:09:05,790 --> 08:09:08,100
Niagara Peninsula Energy
Inc. also submitted

6379
08:09:08,100 --> 08:09:09,930
written comments on August 5th,

6380
08:09:09,930 --> 08:09:12,360
and these comments will be
addressed through conditions

6381
08:09:12,360 --> 08:09:14,760
of draft plan approval
requiring warning clauses

6382
08:09:14,760 --> 08:09:16,920
with respect to lighting and noise.

6383
08:09:16,920 --> 08:09:19,920
It is also noted that a class
four area noise classification

6384
08:09:19,920 --> 08:09:22,140
is recommended to address
sound level exceedances

6385
08:09:22,140 --> 08:09:25,470
resulting from Niagara Peninsula
Energy Inc. and Costco.

6386
08:09:25,470 --> 08:09:27,660
By recognizing the continued operation

6387
08:09:27,660 --> 08:09:30,060
of existing noise generating facilities,

6388
08:09:30,060 --> 08:09:32,700
the class four area classification
helps reduce potential

6389
08:09:32,700 --> 08:09:35,490
operational constraints
on these facilities

6390
08:09:35,490 --> 08:09:37,380
while supporting compatible redevelopment

6391
08:09:37,380 --> 08:09:39,480
and intensification objectives.

6392
08:09:39,480 --> 08:09:40,740
This approach is consistent

6393
08:09:40,740 --> 08:09:43,020
with other recent development
approvals in the area,

6394
08:09:43,020 --> 08:09:48,020
specifically 7302 Kalar
Road and 7449 Montrose Road.

6395
08:09:52,110 --> 08:09:54,270
Subject to the fulfillment
of the conditions contained

6396
08:09:54,270 --> 08:09:56,580
in Schedule A and the
modifications detailed

6397
08:09:56,580 --> 08:09:57,480
in the staff report,

6398
08:09:57,480 --> 08:09:59,787
the following zoning by-law
amendment and draft plan

6399
08:09:59,787 --> 08:10:01,800
and subdivision
applications are recommended

6400
08:10:01,800 --> 08:10:04,020
for the reasons listed below.

6401
08:10:04,020 --> 08:10:05,790
So the proposed development
satisfies matters

6402
08:10:05,790 --> 08:10:07,170
of provincial interest as outlined

6403
08:10:07,170 --> 08:10:08,850
in Section 2 of the Planning Act.

6404
08:10:08,850 --> 08:10:10,680
The proposed development
will conform to provincial,

6405
08:10:10,680 --> 08:10:12,510
regional and city policies.

6406
08:10:12,510 --> 08:10:14,910
The proposed development is
anticipated to be compatible

6407
08:10:14,910 --> 08:10:17,420
with surrounding land uses
subject to the classification

6408
08:10:17,420 --> 08:10:20,010
of the subject lands as
a class four noise area.

6409
08:10:20,010 --> 08:10:21,870
And the implementation of the recommended

6410
08:10:21,870 --> 08:10:24,600
noise control measures
and warning clauses.

6411
08:10:24,600 --> 08:10:25,860
The proposed development will exceed

6412
08:10:25,860 --> 08:10:28,980
the minimum density target
of 50 residents and jobs

6413
08:10:28,980 --> 08:10:31,860
per hectare for the
designated greenfield area.

6414
08:10:31,860 --> 08:10:34,530
No adverse effects on the
natural heritage features

6415
08:10:34,530 --> 08:10:36,270
and their associated
functions are expected

6416
08:10:36,270 --> 08:10:38,460
as a result of the proposed development.

6417
08:10:38,460 --> 08:10:41,820
And in some cases, positive
outcomes are predicted.

6418
08:10:41,820 --> 08:10:44,010
The proposed development
will maintain the hydrology

6419
08:10:44,010 --> 08:10:45,900
of wetlands at a quantity and quality

6420
08:10:45,900 --> 08:10:48,210
that will ensure the long-term
preservation of the wetland.

6421
08:10:48,210 --> 08:10:51,120
And again there are conditions
of draft plan approval

6422
08:10:51,120 --> 08:10:52,470
to address that.

6423
08:10:52,470 --> 08:10:54,240
The existing transportation infrastructure

6424
08:10:54,240 --> 08:10:55,920
and municipal services can accommodate

6425
08:10:55,920 --> 08:10:57,330
the proposed development.

6426
08:10:57,330 --> 08:11:00,300
The proposed site specific
zoning amendments are appropriate

6427
08:11:00,300 --> 08:11:03,090
for the area and will facilitate
an efficient use of land

6428
08:11:03,090 --> 08:11:04,440
in a compact built form.

6429
08:11:04,440 --> 08:11:06,660
And the proposed development
will address the concerns

6430
08:11:06,660 --> 08:11:09,110
that were raised by Niagara
Peninsula Energy Inc.

6431
08:11:10,110 --> 08:11:12,150
In summary, staff recommend
that council approve

6432
08:11:12,150 --> 08:11:13,170
the zoning by-law amendment

6433
08:11:13,170 --> 08:11:15,270
subject to the regulations
and modifications

6434
08:11:15,270 --> 08:11:17,490
detailed in the staff report.

6435
08:11:17,490 --> 08:11:18,780
It's recommended that council approve

6436
08:11:18,780 --> 08:11:21,420
the draft plan of subdivision
subject to the conditions

6437
08:11:21,420 --> 08:11:23,730
contained in Schedule A of the report.

6438
08:11:23,730 --> 08:11:26,010
That council grant draft
plan subdivision approval

6439
08:11:26,010 --> 08:11:27,360
for three years.

6440
08:11:27,360 --> 08:11:29,340
That council authorize
the mayor or designate

6441
08:11:29,340 --> 08:11:30,930
to sign the draft plan of subdivision

6442
08:11:30,930 --> 08:11:33,210
and execute the subdivision agreement.

6443
08:11:33,210 --> 08:11:35,820
That council approve the
classification of the subject lands

6444
08:11:35,820 --> 08:11:37,110
as a class four noise area

6445
08:11:37,110 --> 08:11:39,720
pursuant to the Ministry
of the Environment,

6446
08:11:39,720 --> 08:11:43,110
noise guidelines NPC-300.

6447
08:11:43,110 --> 08:11:46,050
And that council delegate
authority to the general manager

6448
08:11:46,050 --> 08:11:48,060
of planning, building and
development to approve

6449
08:11:48,060 --> 08:11:50,610
the implementing by-laws at
a future delegated meeting.

6450
08:11:50,610 --> 08:11:51,780
Thank you.

6451
08:11:51,780 --> 08:11:54,390
- Okay. Thank you very much.
Any questions for Ms. Ceci?

6452
08:11:54,390 --> 08:11:56,430
We've got Councillor Lococo.

6453
08:11:56,430 --> 08:11:57,810
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

6454
08:11:57,810 --> 08:12:02,810
If we could go to page
39 and 40 of the report.

6455
08:12:05,977 --> 08:12:08,850
I had a question regarding
appendix three, the map.

6456
08:12:08,850 --> 08:12:12,813
I noticed on there that
Warren Creek is not on there.

6457
08:12:13,997 --> 08:12:15,180
A resident brought that to my attention

6458
08:12:15,180 --> 08:12:17,133
and stated that it should be on there.

6459
08:12:18,232 --> 08:12:19,065
- [Jim] Okay.

6460
08:12:19,065 --> 08:12:22,860
- So so on page 39 and 40, it's not there.

6461
08:12:22,860 --> 08:12:25,833
And then when you get to page 40,

6462
08:12:26,940 --> 08:12:29,760
when changing Warren
Creek from where it was

6463
08:12:29,760 --> 08:12:32,790
to where you want to move
it, is that the squiggly line

6464
08:12:32,790 --> 08:12:35,760
that goes all the way
around and then down?

6465
08:12:35,760 --> 08:12:37,470
Is that the new Warren Creek?

6466
08:12:37,470 --> 08:12:38,303
- That's correct.

6467
08:12:38,303 --> 08:12:43,140
So on page 40, block 32 and 31,

6468
08:12:43,140 --> 08:12:45,330
so 31's on the south side of street A.

6469
08:12:45,330 --> 08:12:47,400
32 is on the north side.

6470
08:12:47,400 --> 08:12:50,670
Yeah, that would be the two
blocks accommodating the creek.

6471
08:12:50,670 --> 08:12:55,670
And the zoning schedule, that
L-shaped kind of in the top

6472
08:12:56,730 --> 08:12:59,460
and the northwest corner
would be representative

6473
08:12:59,460 --> 08:13:01,410
of the 30 meter wide channel

6474
08:13:01,410 --> 08:13:04,620
that would accommodate the
creek and its floodplain.

6475
08:13:04,620 --> 08:13:05,858
Thank you.

6476
08:13:05,858 --> 08:13:07,373
- I've never seen a creek go like that.

6477
08:13:08,880 --> 08:13:09,720
I don't understand that.

6478
08:13:09,720 --> 08:13:13,083
I'm not a geologist or I
don't get that, but anyway.

6479
08:13:14,280 --> 08:13:17,070
Am I understanding this
class four noise area?

6480
08:13:17,070 --> 08:13:19,680
We've been talking about
industrial, a lot of noise.

6481
08:13:19,680 --> 08:13:22,170
So this is not a class four building.

6482
08:13:22,170 --> 08:13:25,440
This is a class four
area. And if we designate.

6483
08:13:25,440 --> 08:13:28,200
Right now, they wouldn't
be able to build this

6484
08:13:28,200 --> 08:13:31,800
because there not a level of noise.

6485
08:13:31,800 --> 08:13:35,250
But if we designate a
class four noise area,

6486
08:13:35,250 --> 08:13:36,900
then the development can happen,

6487
08:13:36,900 --> 08:13:38,910
through the mayor to Ms.
Ceci. Is that correct?

6488
08:13:38,910 --> 08:13:39,840
- Through to the Councillor.

6489
08:13:39,840 --> 08:13:42,420
So they could proceed with the development

6490
08:13:42,420 --> 08:13:45,300
if they were to explore
other mitigation measures.

6491
08:13:45,300 --> 08:13:49,260
So one of them was a
4.4 meter high barrier

6492
08:13:49,260 --> 08:13:51,480
along the rear yards of any of the units

6493
08:13:51,480 --> 08:13:54,210
that would be backing onto
Niagara Peninsula Energy Inc.

6494
08:13:54,210 --> 08:13:58,020
But thinking from a
livability perspective,

6495
08:13:58,020 --> 08:14:01,500
that would be quite you
know, onerous for a landowner

6496
08:14:01,500 --> 08:14:03,180
to have that in their backyard.

6497
08:14:03,180 --> 08:14:06,030
And also recognizing that
this provides some flexibility

6498
08:14:06,030 --> 08:14:08,010
to Niagara Peninsula Energy Inc.

6499
08:14:08,010 --> 08:14:10,080
Should their operations expand.

6500
08:14:10,080 --> 08:14:12,000
In terms of Costco,
because that's another one

6501
08:14:12,000 --> 08:14:15,330
of the stationary sources
that are impacting the site.

6502
08:14:15,330 --> 08:14:18,240
They could design that
those couple of end units

6503
08:14:18,240 --> 08:14:19,920
with appropriate noise barriers

6504
08:14:19,920 --> 08:14:21,630
for their outdoor living areas

6505
08:14:21,630 --> 08:14:24,570
and use upgraded building
components and treatments

6506
08:14:24,570 --> 08:14:26,100
to mitigate the noise.

6507
08:14:26,100 --> 08:14:28,980
But again, the class four designation

6508
08:14:28,980 --> 08:14:31,140
allows for that flexibility for the noise.

6509
08:14:31,140 --> 08:14:34,710
So there's a few areas
where it would help address

6510
08:14:34,710 --> 08:14:37,500
Costco and then particularly the noise

6511
08:14:37,500 --> 08:14:39,450
that's being generated by
Niagara Peninsula Energy.

6512
08:14:39,450 --> 08:14:40,590
- Okay. Thank you.

6513
08:14:40,590 --> 08:14:42,930
I'm just concerned and I've
had a couple of comments

6514
08:14:42,930 --> 08:14:46,290
that we're now naming it a new noise area

6515
08:14:46,290 --> 08:14:49,290
because there's going to be
noise and now that's acceptable.

6516
08:14:50,760 --> 08:14:54,750
That's where I'm going, from industry.

6517
08:14:54,750 --> 08:14:55,950
- Through you to the Councillor.

6518
08:14:55,950 --> 08:15:00,280
So NPC-300 does allow for
the noise classifications

6519
08:15:01,649 --> 08:15:05,520
to be elevated to the class
four area if it's demonstrated

6520
08:15:05,520 --> 08:15:06,600
that it's appropriate.

6521
08:15:06,600 --> 08:15:08,340
And in this case, staff are of the opinion

6522
08:15:08,340 --> 08:15:12,060
that it is given the scale and
nature of those facilities.

6523
08:15:12,060 --> 08:15:14,700
And also recognizing that
in one of the comments

6524
08:15:14,700 --> 08:15:16,410
we heard from Niagara
Peninsula Energy Inc.

6525
08:15:16,410 --> 08:15:19,530
Was that they do have
emergency operations at times.

6526
08:15:19,530 --> 08:15:22,650
And those aren't captured under NPC-300,

6527
08:15:22,650 --> 08:15:25,620
but this again you know,
brings that to the attention

6528
08:15:25,620 --> 08:15:29,370
of residents in terms of those
elevated noise exceedances

6529
08:15:29,370 --> 08:15:30,660
due to their operations.

6530
08:15:30,660 --> 08:15:34,200
So we feel that there's
the provincial guidance

6531
08:15:34,200 --> 08:15:35,250
that allows for it.

6532
08:15:35,250 --> 08:15:37,650
Like I mentioned, there are
other properties in the area

6533
08:15:37,650 --> 08:15:39,210
where this has been the route,

6534
08:15:39,210 --> 08:15:42,660
specifically 7302 Kalar Road,
which is just directly north

6535
08:15:42,660 --> 08:15:44,490
of Niagara Peninsula Energy Inc.

6536
08:15:44,490 --> 08:15:47,820
I believe that was approved
by council last year

6537
08:15:47,820 --> 08:15:49,050
as a class four noise area.

6538
08:15:49,050 --> 08:15:51,900
So this is mirroring that approach.

6539
08:15:51,900 --> 08:15:54,150
And again, then is also addressing

6540
08:15:54,150 --> 08:15:56,760
some of the stationary noise
sources from Costco as well.

6541
08:15:56,760 --> 08:16:00,870
- Okay, regarding the parkland dedication,

6542
08:16:00,870 --> 08:16:02,430
there's all of those blocks,

6543
08:16:02,430 --> 08:16:04,020
but then municipal work says

6544
08:16:04,020 --> 08:16:07,200
that there will be
additional operational needs.

6545
08:16:07,200 --> 08:16:10,590
So are we taking the park or
are we not taking the park?

6546
08:16:10,590 --> 08:16:11,430
- Through you to the Councillor.

6547
08:16:11,430 --> 08:16:13,560
So the operational needs was with respect

6548
08:16:13,560 --> 08:16:18,060
to taking the EPA lands, the
environmental protection areas.

6549
08:16:18,060 --> 08:16:22,200
We are not taking physical
parkland through this.

6550
08:16:22,200 --> 08:16:25,530
There was a small parquette
on the south side of street A

6551
08:16:25,530 --> 08:16:28,260
towards Pin Oak that was
proposed at one point.

6552
08:16:28,260 --> 08:16:30,240
And that's through the
description described

6553
08:16:30,240 --> 08:16:33,780
that we want just essentially
a block connection

6554
08:16:33,780 --> 08:16:36,060
to the EPA lands there.

6555
08:16:36,060 --> 08:16:40,290
But that the rest of that be
reserved for residential use,

6556
08:16:40,290 --> 08:16:42,600
just because functionally
that small parquette

6557
08:16:42,600 --> 08:16:46,270
wouldn't serve you know, a purpose

6558
08:16:48,216 --> 08:16:49,140
from a parkland standpoint.

6559
08:16:49,140 --> 08:16:51,120
And there are a lot of parks in this area

6560
08:16:51,120 --> 08:16:53,100
as was mentioned in the report.

6561
08:16:53,100 --> 08:16:55,380
So that they feel that parkland dedication

6562
08:16:55,380 --> 08:16:56,583
isn't required here.

6563
08:16:58,189 --> 08:17:00,570
And so we're re-lotting
some of the subdivision

6564
08:17:00,570 --> 08:17:02,100
in that respect.

6565
08:17:02,100 --> 08:17:07,080
- Okay, regarding the
hydrological contribution

6566
08:17:07,080 --> 08:17:09,480
to the southern wetlands,
what's going to happen

6567
08:17:09,480 --> 08:17:14,480
to the wetland if it's
minimizing the split drainage?

6568
08:17:16,410 --> 08:17:19,080
Are we sure that this is going to work?

6569
08:17:19,080 --> 08:17:20,220
- Through you to the Councillor.

6570
08:17:20,220 --> 08:17:22,380
So there is additional study work

6571
08:17:22,380 --> 08:17:25,740
that the Conservation
Authority has acknowledged

6572
08:17:25,740 --> 08:17:26,790
that needs to be completed.

6573
08:17:26,790 --> 08:17:28,890
And that's in their conditions
of draft plan approval,

6574
08:17:28,890 --> 08:17:32,190
that the applicant's going
to do this updated study work

6575
08:17:32,190 --> 08:17:36,120
to make sure that the
hydrology is maintained

6576
08:17:36,120 --> 08:17:38,820
and that those wetlands
are being fed appropriately

6577
08:17:38,820 --> 08:17:40,710
from those hydrologic sources.

6578
08:17:40,710 --> 08:17:43,920
So that's something that's
still being assessed

6579
08:17:43,920 --> 08:17:45,780
and we're accepting that in the conditions

6580
08:17:45,780 --> 08:17:47,220
of draft plan approval.

6581
08:17:47,220 --> 08:17:48,438
- Okay. Thank you.

6582
08:17:48,438 --> 08:17:50,100
I have a ton of environmental questions

6583
08:17:50,100 --> 08:17:51,390
and I'm already over five minutes,

6584
08:17:51,390 --> 08:17:52,943
so I'm going to have to sit down.

6585
08:17:53,781 --> 08:17:55,457
- Okay, sometimes good
to send them in advance

6586
08:17:55,457 --> 08:17:58,000
and then you get your
answers ahead of time.

6587
08:17:58,000 --> 08:18:01,407
- We had a 2,500 page agenda

6588
08:18:01,407 --> 08:18:03,630
and I was reading up
until late last night.

6589
08:18:03,630 --> 08:18:05,310
So it's really hard to get in contact

6590
08:18:05,310 --> 08:18:06,780
with staff over the weekend.

6591
08:18:06,780 --> 08:18:08,310
- I always suggest if you do that,

6592
08:18:08,310 --> 08:18:09,900
write them out, put them in an email.

6593
08:18:09,900 --> 08:18:12,180
You have a better chance
of getting response.

6594
08:18:12,180 --> 08:18:14,280
- Well, usually I do, Mr. Mayor.

6595
08:18:14,280 --> 08:18:16,620
Usually I do and staff can attest to that,

6596
08:18:16,620 --> 08:18:18,570
but there was just so
much and some of the stuff

6597
08:18:18,570 --> 08:18:21,240
didn't get put on till Friday
night after five o'clock.

6598
08:18:21,240 --> 08:18:23,970
Some things didn't get put
on until today or yesterday.

6599
08:18:23,970 --> 08:18:26,610
It's really hard as a councillor
to stay on top of this.

6600
08:18:26,610 --> 08:18:30,033
- I know. It is. Any other
questions of other Councillors?

6601
08:18:31,860 --> 08:18:33,690
Yes, Councillor Nieuwesteeg.

6602
08:18:33,690 --> 08:18:34,523
- I have one.

6603
08:18:34,523 --> 08:18:36,330
However, my computer's not working,

6604
08:18:36,330 --> 08:18:38,340
so I'm going back on notes.

6605
08:18:38,340 --> 08:18:40,960
In it, it had made a comment
that the region and the city

6606
08:18:40,960 --> 08:18:44,400
would be working together
for servicing structure

6607
08:18:44,400 --> 08:18:46,560
in place to accommodate the
development in the interim

6608
08:18:46,560 --> 08:18:50,370
before the new Niagara South
wastewater plant is in service.

6609
08:18:50,370 --> 08:18:54,393
What guarantee do we have
that this will be in place?

6610
08:18:55,290 --> 08:18:56,580
- Through you to the Councillor.

6611
08:18:56,580 --> 08:18:59,070
So typical conditions from the region

6612
08:18:59,070 --> 08:19:00,780
are about servicing allocation.

6613
08:19:00,780 --> 08:19:02,850
So they want to make sure
they're not making a commitment

6614
08:19:02,850 --> 08:19:05,413
for servicing room until a draft plan,

6615
08:19:05,413 --> 08:19:07,170
a subdivision is actually registered.

6616
08:19:07,170 --> 08:19:09,660
So those are the conditions
that you're seeing

6617
08:19:09,660 --> 08:19:14,010
in terms of the timing and
the infrastructure upgrades

6618
08:19:14,010 --> 08:19:16,470
that are eventually going to be proposed.

6619
08:19:16,470 --> 08:19:19,420
- So we don't have to worry
about this as. Okay. Thank you.

6620
08:19:20,670 --> 08:19:23,010
- Okay, if there's no other questions,

6621
08:19:23,010 --> 08:19:25,470
members of the public
are advised that failure

6622
08:19:25,470 --> 08:19:29,790
to make an oral or written
submission at this public meeting

6623
08:19:29,790 --> 08:19:32,100
will result in the Ontario Land Tribunal

6624
08:19:32,100 --> 08:19:33,930
dismissing any referrals that it receives.

6625
08:19:33,930 --> 08:19:37,080
Failure to make a
notification of the city clerk

6626
08:19:37,080 --> 08:19:38,820
to preserve their opportunity to an appeal

6627
08:19:38,820 --> 08:19:40,770
will result in staff rejecting an appeal

6628
08:19:40,770 --> 08:19:44,130
as for section 3419 of the Planning Act.

6629
08:19:44,130 --> 08:19:46,890
Council will now hear from
anyone other than the applicant

6630
08:19:46,890 --> 08:19:49,830
who wishes to speak to the proposed plan

6631
08:19:49,830 --> 08:19:51,210
and by-law amendment.

6632
08:19:51,210 --> 08:19:53,640
Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone
pre-registered for this?

6633
08:19:53,640 --> 08:19:55,890
We do not. Okay. So now
we go to the gallery.

6634
08:19:55,890 --> 08:19:57,240
So if you'd like to step forward,

6635
08:19:57,240 --> 08:19:59,160
anyone that would like
to speak to this matter,

6636
08:19:59,160 --> 08:20:00,570
you can come forward.

6637
08:20:00,570 --> 08:20:05,130
And is there anyone else that
wants to speak to this matter?

6638
08:20:05,130 --> 08:20:07,470
Okay. So you've got up to five minutes.

6639
08:20:07,470 --> 08:20:09,210
And if you can just state
your name and your address,

6640
08:20:09,210 --> 08:20:10,560
and then you can ask your questions.

6641
08:20:10,560 --> 08:20:14,523
- My name's Brad Pine,
4900 St. Clair Avenue.

6642
08:20:15,540 --> 08:20:17,040
This might be extraordinary,

6643
08:20:17,040 --> 08:20:20,190
but may I proxy my five minutes

6644
08:20:20,190 --> 08:20:22,530
as I have environmental concerns?

6645
08:20:22,530 --> 08:20:26,670
May I proxy my five
minutes to Mrs. Lococo?

6646
08:20:26,670 --> 08:20:29,100
- [Jim] I go to our clerk for a ruling.

6647
08:20:29,100 --> 08:20:31,850
- I have environmental
concerns, so I am requesting it.

6648
08:20:33,060 --> 08:20:36,200
- That does not exist within the city's

6649
08:20:36,200 --> 08:20:38,550
or within council's procedural by-law.

6650
08:20:38,550 --> 08:20:41,550
- So we can do it?
- So it's the will of council.

6651
08:20:41,550 --> 08:20:42,731
- Okay.

6652
08:20:42,731 --> 08:20:43,564
- Just doesn't currently exist

6653
08:20:43,564 --> 08:20:45,003
as part of our procedural by-laws.

6654
08:20:45,003 --> 08:20:46,680
- Mrs. Lococo could you pass me

6655
08:20:46,680 --> 08:20:50,019
your environmental things to, no?

6656
08:20:50,019 --> 08:20:51,630
(Lori speaking faintly)

6657
08:20:51,630 --> 08:20:52,463
Okay.

6658
08:20:52,463 --> 08:20:54,630
- Appreciate the effort on the gesture.

6659
08:20:54,630 --> 08:20:56,490
- May the luck of the Irish be with you.

6660
08:20:56,490 --> 08:20:58,230
- Thank you. And with you as well.

6661
08:20:58,230 --> 08:20:59,180
- [Brad] Thank you.

6662
08:21:00,630 --> 08:21:01,620
- Slantia.

6663
08:21:01,620 --> 08:21:03,810
Is there anyone else who
wishes to address council

6664
08:21:03,810 --> 08:21:04,643
on this matter?

6665
08:21:05,670 --> 08:21:08,490
Okay, seeing none, council will
now hear from the applicant

6666
08:21:08,490 --> 08:21:10,083
or his or her representative.

6667
08:21:16,290 --> 08:21:19,620
- Mr. Mayor, members of
council, staff, public,

6668
08:21:19,620 --> 08:21:21,720
my name is Peter Diulio.

6669
08:21:21,720 --> 08:21:23,400
I'm a registered professional planner

6670
08:21:23,400 --> 08:21:25,440
with Metropolitan Consulting, Inc.

6671
08:21:25,440 --> 08:21:27,690
Representing Alinea Land Corporation.

6672
08:21:27,690 --> 08:21:29,940
I'm just here to say we
concur with staff's report

6673
08:21:29,940 --> 08:21:32,400
and recommendations and
wish to move forward

6674
08:21:32,400 --> 08:21:34,020
with this project.

6675
08:21:34,020 --> 08:21:36,003
- Any questions for Mr. Diulio?

6676
08:21:37,405 --> 08:21:38,238
- Diulio, yes.

6677
08:21:38,238 --> 08:21:39,153
- Diulio, of council?

6678
08:21:40,350 --> 08:21:42,900
Did you have any questions,
Councillor Lococo? Yes?

6679
08:21:44,629 --> 08:21:46,020
You can backdoor the questions.

6680
08:21:46,020 --> 08:21:48,043
- I was thinking of that one.

6681
08:21:49,560 --> 08:21:54,270
Staff said that it can't be
supported some of the requests

6682
08:21:54,270 --> 08:21:56,340
that you have because of
elimination in the minimum

6683
08:21:56,340 --> 08:21:59,760
landscape open space area when
coupled with the elimination

6684
08:21:59,760 --> 08:22:01,440
of the maximum lot coverage.

6685
08:22:01,440 --> 08:22:03,150
Where do we stand on the proposal then

6686
08:22:03,150 --> 08:22:04,533
if they can't support that?

6687
08:22:05,580 --> 08:22:07,050
- [Jim] Are you asking them?
- Yes.

6688
08:22:07,050 --> 08:22:09,180
- Sorry. Through you, Mr. Mayor.

6689
08:22:09,180 --> 08:22:12,270
We're supporting all of
staff's recommendations.

6690
08:22:12,270 --> 08:22:14,280
So when the draft by-law comes forward,

6691
08:22:14,280 --> 08:22:16,680
that request of ours will not be there

6692
08:22:16,680 --> 08:22:19,770
and it'll just go with the
regular by-law provision.

6693
08:22:19,770 --> 08:22:21,483
- Okay, it also talked about

6694
08:22:21,483 --> 08:22:24,810
that there's a zero meter
buffer in one location

6695
08:22:24,810 --> 08:22:27,870
and the average minimum buffer
is 10 meters throughout.

6696
08:22:27,870 --> 08:22:31,800
If the EPA blocks is not large enough

6697
08:22:31,800 --> 08:22:33,630
to accommodate the 100 year floodplain,

6698
08:22:33,630 --> 08:22:35,430
which we keep on hearing about rain,

6699
08:22:35,430 --> 08:22:37,050
or the wetland buffers,

6700
08:22:37,050 --> 08:22:40,170
the draft sub plan subdivision
will need to be redlined.

6701
08:22:40,170 --> 08:22:42,690
Can that please be explained
to me about redlining

6702
08:22:42,690 --> 08:22:45,813
and what that means in
the development process?

6703
08:22:47,340 --> 08:22:49,620
- Well, I don't know who
would answer that question.

6704
08:22:49,620 --> 08:22:52,770
Redlining, I don't know if
that Ms. Ceci or Ms. Dolch,

6705
08:22:52,770 --> 08:22:54,183
or Mr. Diulio.

6706
08:22:56,490 --> 08:22:57,660
- Through you to the Councillor.

6707
08:22:57,660 --> 08:23:00,180
So as they're working to
clear their conditions

6708
08:23:00,180 --> 08:23:02,400
of draft plan approval, which
would include the additional

6709
08:23:02,400 --> 08:23:05,880
study work to demonstrate the
appropriateness of the buffers

6710
08:23:05,880 --> 08:23:09,950
if it's identified that that
buffer isn't appropriate there

6711
08:23:09,950 --> 08:23:11,220
or in other locations,

6712
08:23:11,220 --> 08:23:14,610
then they'll be able to
work with staff to identify

6713
08:23:14,610 --> 08:23:16,350
the appropriate location and essentially

6714
08:23:16,350 --> 08:23:19,590
make that block smaller in
terms of the residential ones,

6715
08:23:19,590 --> 08:23:21,630
making the EPA block larger.

6716
08:23:21,630 --> 08:23:23,610
So that's something we're looking for

6717
08:23:23,610 --> 08:23:25,200
as part of that recommendation

6718
08:23:25,200 --> 08:23:26,790
is that we'd have that flexibility

6719
08:23:26,790 --> 08:23:29,700
to work with the applicant
to make that modification.

6720
08:23:29,700 --> 08:23:32,160
And that's something similar
to what was done in Riverfront

6721
08:23:32,160 --> 08:23:35,670
as well in terms of modifying
those buffers to become larger

6722
08:23:35,670 --> 08:23:39,360
if the study work demonstrates
that that's necessary.

6723
08:23:39,360 --> 08:23:40,980
- Thank you.

6724
08:23:40,980 --> 08:23:43,980
Going back to the
industrial, the noise level,

6725
08:23:43,980 --> 08:23:47,520
the class four, what is going
to happen about a complaint

6726
08:23:47,520 --> 08:23:48,660
to the MOE again?

6727
08:23:48,660 --> 08:23:50,310
We're back to the industrial

6728
08:23:50,310 --> 08:23:54,803
and we have different
industrial around there.

6729
08:23:57,000 --> 08:23:58,230
They're working with staff,

6730
08:23:58,230 --> 08:24:01,140
but again, if there's a
complaint made to the MOE,

6731
08:24:01,140 --> 08:24:03,213
where does that leave the residents?

6732
08:24:04,199 --> 08:24:05,730
- Sorry, through you Mr. Mayor,

6733
08:24:05,730 --> 08:24:07,950
similar to what Mackenzie said

6734
08:24:07,950 --> 08:24:09,120
with the previous application.

6735
08:24:09,120 --> 08:24:12,210
I mean, the MOE processes
are still in play.

6736
08:24:12,210 --> 08:24:15,140
We're hoping, given the
nature of the operation

6737
08:24:15,140 --> 08:24:18,660
of Niagara Peninsula, it's
not like a standard industry.

6738
08:24:18,660 --> 08:24:21,180
I mean, they're not
manufacturing anything there.

6739
08:24:21,180 --> 08:24:23,037
Yes, they are on call for 24 hours

6740
08:24:23,037 --> 08:24:25,020
and may have to go on an emergency

6741
08:24:25,020 --> 08:24:26,340
in the middle of the night.

6742
08:24:26,340 --> 08:24:29,250
But I mean, they have trucks,
they have equipment out there

6743
08:24:29,250 --> 08:24:32,190
and it's really a storage yard.

6744
08:24:32,190 --> 08:24:33,990
I mean, they have
buildings for maintenance

6745
08:24:33,990 --> 08:24:34,823
and what have you.

6746
08:24:34,823 --> 08:24:38,970
So I'm assuming that the normal
process would be in place

6747
08:24:38,970 --> 08:24:42,510
for complaints to the
Ministry of Environment.

6748
08:24:42,510 --> 08:24:45,510
- Okay, same concerns again
about secondary owners,

6749
08:24:45,510 --> 08:24:47,613
even if there was on the clauses.

6750
08:24:48,870 --> 08:24:51,203
Let me see if I can get
a couple other in here.

6751
08:24:59,100 --> 08:25:02,610
How is Warren Creek going to be monitored?

6752
08:25:02,610 --> 08:25:05,940
Who's responsible to monitor
it after it's been changed

6753
08:25:05,940 --> 08:25:08,400
to the little squiggly
all going all across?

6754
08:25:08,400 --> 08:25:10,950
How long and how often is
it going to be monitored

6755
08:25:10,950 --> 08:25:14,010
to see that it's actually running the way

6756
08:25:14,010 --> 08:25:15,120
it's supposed to be.

6757
08:25:15,120 --> 08:25:17,790
- Sorry, I just want through Mr. Mayor,

6758
08:25:17,790 --> 08:25:18,900
In terms of the squiggly lines,

6759
08:25:18,900 --> 08:25:21,090
that's just representational.

6760
08:25:21,090 --> 08:25:24,150
Typically, it's a meander.
I mean, it's not that tight.

6761
08:25:24,150 --> 08:25:25,950
We didn't just want to
just show a straight line.

6762
08:25:25,950 --> 08:25:26,783
Oh, here's the water.

6763
08:25:26,783 --> 08:25:29,430
But typically you design
it so it meanders.

6764
08:25:29,430 --> 08:25:32,100
And now mind you, the
parks, people have asked

6765
08:25:32,100 --> 08:25:33,450
for a path on one side.

6766
08:25:33,450 --> 08:25:36,600
So, you know, it might
stay more to the north

6767
08:25:36,600 --> 08:25:39,240
and the west side and the
path would be on the inside.

6768
08:25:39,240 --> 08:25:41,040
So yeah, that's just

6769
08:25:41,040 --> 08:25:44,490
- Okay, well, we will replace
squiggly with meander.

6770
08:25:44,490 --> 08:25:46,890
I've just never seen
something like that and.

6771
08:25:46,890 --> 08:25:48,990
- [Jim] You want to add to that Ms. Ceci?

6772
08:25:48,990 --> 08:25:50,730
- Yeah, just to address
the Councillor's comment

6773
08:25:50,730 --> 08:25:51,840
about the monitoring.

6774
08:25:51,840 --> 08:25:54,360
So part of the condition from
the conservation authority

6775
08:25:54,360 --> 08:25:56,940
is submission of a monitoring plan.

6776
08:25:56,940 --> 08:25:59,700
So what they'll be
requesting is securities

6777
08:25:59,700 --> 08:26:03,810
and this plan essentially
outlining you know,

6778
08:26:03,810 --> 08:26:06,810
to the satisfaction of their staff,

6779
08:26:06,810 --> 08:26:09,870
how the wetland compensation
will be monitored

6780
08:26:09,870 --> 08:26:12,390
and in terms of that channel realignment

6781
08:26:12,390 --> 08:26:13,470
and the success of that.

6782
08:26:13,470 --> 08:26:15,237
So they'll have that monitoring plan

6783
08:26:15,237 --> 08:26:17,280
and those securities in place for,

6784
08:26:17,280 --> 08:26:19,049
they said a minimum of five years.

6785
08:26:19,049 --> 08:26:19,882
- Five years. Okay. Thank you.

6786
08:26:19,882 --> 08:26:21,873
And last question I'll squeeze in.

6787
08:26:23,700 --> 08:26:24,813
Oh, I just lost it.

6788
08:26:29,790 --> 08:26:31,890
I'll think about it. I have
one more quick question.

6789
08:26:31,890 --> 08:26:32,763
I can't remember.

6790
08:26:34,322 --> 08:26:36,473
- [Jim] Okay. We still have
15 seconds if you can find it.

6791
08:26:37,710 --> 08:26:39,960
- My brain's not working
that fast right now.

6792
08:26:41,700 --> 08:26:46,500
Oh, yes, with all of these
amendments and adjustments,

6793
08:26:46,500 --> 08:26:49,770
is this application maybe
too premature at this point

6794
08:26:49,770 --> 08:26:51,870
because we're adjusting
this, adjusting that,

6795
08:26:51,870 --> 08:26:53,400
putting hold clauses?

6796
08:26:53,400 --> 08:26:55,680
Is this too premature?

6797
08:26:55,680 --> 08:26:56,730
- [Jim] Well, we'll go to our staff.

6798
08:26:56,730 --> 08:26:58,200
The recommendations to approve.

6799
08:26:58,200 --> 08:27:00,486
So I don't know who would address that.

6800
08:27:00,486 --> 08:27:01,440
Ms. Ceci or Ms. Dolch?

6801
08:27:01,440 --> 08:27:04,263
Whoever wants to, don't rush to the mic.

6802
08:27:05,310 --> 08:27:08,013
- So I'll start and if
Ms. Ceci wants to add in.

6803
08:27:09,900 --> 08:27:11,400
They've done all their due diligence

6804
08:27:11,400 --> 08:27:16,400
in terms of all the environmental work.

6805
08:27:16,470 --> 08:27:18,600
Obviously, if we had maybe
another council meeting,

6806
08:27:18,600 --> 08:27:20,340
we may have held it a little bit,

6807
08:27:20,340 --> 08:27:23,250
but in this case we felt satisfied

6808
08:27:23,250 --> 08:27:25,927
that the environmental work was done.

6809
08:27:25,927 --> 08:27:27,780
We met with the NPCA.

6810
08:27:27,780 --> 08:27:30,300
The NPCA had a number
of conditions as well

6811
08:27:30,300 --> 08:27:31,440
and felt it could go forward

6812
08:27:31,440 --> 08:27:33,030
because they felt generally satisfied

6813
08:27:33,030 --> 08:27:34,950
with what they were proposing.

6814
08:27:34,950 --> 08:27:39,210
There's a lot of information
just more double checking

6815
08:27:39,210 --> 08:27:41,430
than anything left at this point.

6816
08:27:41,430 --> 08:27:44,820
So we have it detailed in
conditions as Ms. Ceci said.

6817
08:27:44,820 --> 08:27:46,407
- Thank you very much.

6818
08:27:46,407 --> 08:27:48,723
- Okay, great. Any other questions?

6819
08:27:49,620 --> 08:27:51,370
I think we're good. Thank you, sir.

6820
08:27:52,440 --> 08:27:55,800
The public meeting with respect
to the proposed draft plan

6821
08:27:55,800 --> 08:27:59,070
of subdivision and zoning by-law
amendment is now concluded.

6822
08:27:59,070 --> 08:28:03,150
What's the will? Councillor
Kerrio moves it. Second?

6823
08:28:03,150 --> 08:28:05,550
Seconds it by Councillor Strange.

6824
08:28:05,550 --> 08:28:07,650
If there's no further
discussion, we'll call that vote.

6825
08:28:07,650 --> 08:28:10,770
All those in favor. Okay.
And that's unanimous.

6826
08:28:10,770 --> 08:28:12,870
Thank you very much. Thank you, gentlemen.

6827
08:28:24,720 --> 08:28:26,880
All right, Mr. Clerk, if
you'd please introduce

6828
08:28:26,880 --> 08:28:28,533
the next item on the agenda.

6829
08:28:34,050 --> 08:28:35,490
- A public meeting is now being convened

6830
08:28:35,490 --> 08:28:38,400
to consider a proposed official plan

6831
08:28:38,400 --> 08:28:39,840
and zoning by-law amendments

6832
08:28:39,840 --> 08:28:42,510
for the Northwest Secondary Plan.

6833
08:28:42,510 --> 08:28:46,140
In accordance with Bill 185,
the minister or the applicant

6834
08:28:46,140 --> 08:28:47,970
or a specified person, public body,

6835
08:28:47,970 --> 08:28:49,320
or registered owner of any land

6836
08:28:49,320 --> 08:28:52,470
to which the official plan
amendment by-law will apply,

6837
08:28:52,470 --> 08:28:54,270
who made oral submissions
at a public meeting

6838
08:28:54,270 --> 08:28:57,690
or written submissions at city
council prior to the adoption

6839
08:28:57,690 --> 08:28:59,670
of the official plan
amendment and/or passage

6840
08:28:59,670 --> 08:29:02,220
of the by-law may appeal the EOP

6841
08:29:02,220 --> 08:29:04,980
or the by-law to the
Ontario Land Tribunal.

6842
08:29:04,980 --> 08:29:08,340
Third party appeals are
no longer permitted.

6843
08:29:08,340 --> 08:29:10,590
And anyone who wants further
notice shall leave their name

6844
08:29:10,590 --> 08:29:14,160
on the sign-in sheets located
just outside council chamber.

6845
08:29:14,160 --> 08:29:15,030
- Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

6846
08:29:15,030 --> 08:29:16,530
And I'll call on Chris Millar,

6847
08:29:16,530 --> 08:29:19,980
Senior Project Manager Secondary Plans

6848
08:29:19,980 --> 08:29:21,690
to explain the purpose and the reason

6849
08:29:21,690 --> 08:29:23,850
for the proposed amendments.

6850
08:29:23,850 --> 08:29:26,910
- Hello, good afternoon Mayor, council,

6851
08:29:26,910 --> 08:29:30,780
members of the public and
anyone watching at home.

6852
08:29:30,780 --> 08:29:32,550
I know you have a big agenda,

6853
08:29:32,550 --> 08:29:35,253
so I'm going to try and
get swiftly through this.

6854
08:29:36,270 --> 08:29:39,123
So yes Northwest secondary plan.

6855
08:29:41,550 --> 08:29:45,003
Where is it? Let me do this one.

6856
08:29:46,140 --> 08:29:47,550
Okay, so the subject lands,

6857
08:29:47,550 --> 08:29:49,830
I'm sure everybody in this
room is aware of what this is.

6858
08:29:49,830 --> 08:29:52,200
This is Mountain Road, Kalar Road,

6859
08:29:52,200 --> 08:29:53,867
south end of the Hydro
Corridor over the QEW

6860
08:29:53,867 --> 08:29:55,740
in the Montrose Road area.

6861
08:29:55,740 --> 08:29:57,890
It's both just under 100 hectares,

6862
08:29:57,890 --> 08:30:00,960
95 and change 236 acres,

6863
08:30:00,960 --> 08:30:03,933
there's 13 parcels in there
of 10 different owners.

6864
08:30:04,920 --> 08:30:07,050
The secondary plan, you know, what it is,

6865
08:30:07,050 --> 08:30:08,430
is intends to...

6866
08:30:08,430 --> 08:30:10,646
It's really a long-term plan.

6867
08:30:10,646 --> 08:30:12,090
You know, it's meant to guide development

6868
08:30:12,090 --> 08:30:13,860
for the next few decades.

6869
08:30:13,860 --> 08:30:15,900
It proactively addresses the need.

6870
08:30:15,900 --> 08:30:18,180
So, you know, the need was
established when these lands

6871
08:30:18,180 --> 08:30:20,550
were brought in by the region in 2022

6872
08:30:20,550 --> 08:30:22,050
because you needed more greenfield

6873
08:30:22,050 --> 08:30:24,450
for your future development in 2051.

6874
08:30:24,450 --> 08:30:28,020
So land use you know,
it's arranged in a manner

6875
08:30:28,020 --> 08:30:33,020
as complete community
principles and it helps

6876
08:30:34,950 --> 08:30:36,060
with having something like this in place

6877
08:30:36,060 --> 08:30:37,350
that helps with the capital planning,

6878
08:30:37,350 --> 08:30:38,970
so we know what we have to do,

6879
08:30:38,970 --> 08:30:41,577
and it also helps with the
financial planning, so.

6880
08:30:41,577 --> 08:30:42,830
And it's delivered in the form

6881
08:30:42,830 --> 08:30:46,380
of an official plan
amendment and inserted into,

6882
08:30:46,380 --> 08:30:47,213
in this case here,

6883
08:30:47,213 --> 08:30:48,720
we're amending the existing official plan,

6884
08:30:48,720 --> 08:30:49,710
so it's going to be an amendment

6885
08:30:49,710 --> 08:30:51,570
to the existing official plan.

6886
08:30:51,570 --> 08:30:52,740
So when we started all of this,

6887
08:30:52,740 --> 08:30:55,530
we had a community
focus group established.

6888
08:30:55,530 --> 08:30:58,950
The community focus
group had developed this

6889
08:30:58,950 --> 08:31:01,560
we'll call it the
aspirational vision statement.

6890
08:31:01,560 --> 08:31:03,840
The Northwest community
accommodates people of all ages,

6891
08:31:03,840 --> 08:31:06,633
abilities, and through a
mix of land use and housing.

6892
08:31:07,530 --> 08:31:09,420
It has a connected and convenient system

6893
08:31:09,420 --> 08:31:13,050
of complete streets, pathways,
access to natural areas

6894
08:31:13,050 --> 08:31:16,470
and recreational areas within
and outside of the community.

6895
08:31:16,470 --> 08:31:19,680
Is planned and designed to
anticipate the evolving needs

6896
08:31:19,680 --> 08:31:22,493
of those who live, work and
play within the neighborhood.

6897
08:31:23,370 --> 08:31:26,940
You know, the principles
of this plan is a compact,

6898
08:31:26,940 --> 08:31:28,650
this is going to be a compact community.

6899
08:31:28,650 --> 08:31:32,580
It's a compact built form
with principled urban design.

6900
08:31:32,580 --> 08:31:35,400
Protect the critical pieces
of the environment there

6901
08:31:35,400 --> 08:31:38,700
with protection for the
woodlot, to Ten-Mile-Creek

6902
08:31:38,700 --> 08:31:42,060
in key locations for the
amenities of the community.

6903
08:31:42,060 --> 08:31:44,733
So you know, centralized in my view.

6904
08:31:46,323 --> 08:31:48,690
A wide range of housing
choices and densities

6905
08:31:48,690 --> 08:31:50,640
that progress from the mixed use areas

6906
08:31:50,640 --> 08:31:52,560
up at the northwest corner
and along Mountain Road

6907
08:31:52,560 --> 08:31:55,290
as it progresses down through
the medium and down to the low

6908
08:31:55,290 --> 08:31:58,290
as it gets towards the Hydro
Corridor and then Mount Carmel.

6909
08:31:59,310 --> 08:32:02,193
A strong collector road network
and a strong AT network.

6910
08:32:03,240 --> 08:32:06,360
I'm going to try and slip
through this one here.

6911
08:32:06,360 --> 08:32:09,780
It was brought in the
urban areas I said, 2022.

6912
08:32:09,780 --> 08:32:12,990
Both the region and the city
required secondary plans

6913
08:32:12,990 --> 08:32:15,930
to be done, so they were started.

6914
08:32:15,930 --> 08:32:17,520
This took a three phase approach,

6915
08:32:17,520 --> 08:32:20,070
existing conditions,
some option development,

6916
08:32:20,070 --> 08:32:21,840
and then of course the policy plan,

6917
08:32:21,840 --> 08:32:25,800
which you're going to be
asked to recommendation

6918
08:32:25,800 --> 08:32:26,633
for approval.

6919
08:32:27,630 --> 08:32:29,040
So the engagement, like I mentioned,

6920
08:32:29,040 --> 08:32:31,514
we had a community focus
group out of the gate.

6921
08:32:31,514 --> 08:32:32,820
We had three meetings
with that focus group.

6922
08:32:32,820 --> 08:32:34,980
We did a visioning some charrette work,

6923
08:32:34,980 --> 08:32:39,296
and they digested and sent
feedback on the two option plans

6924
08:32:39,296 --> 08:32:42,750
that the council looked at
back in September of last year.

6925
08:32:42,750 --> 08:32:45,530
And so we met with the public.

6926
08:32:46,376 --> 08:32:47,820
I have a public open door.

6927
08:32:47,820 --> 08:32:49,401
You call me, I'm going to call you.

6928
08:32:49,401 --> 08:32:50,360
You email me, I'm going to email you.

6929
08:32:50,360 --> 08:32:53,667
So I've been wide open to
the public the whole way.

6930
08:32:53,667 --> 08:32:57,210
You know, the owners of the
plan, they're all aware.

6931
08:32:57,210 --> 08:32:59,340
Some have been active, some have not.

6932
08:32:59,340 --> 08:33:02,460
But I've always been responsive to them

6933
08:33:02,460 --> 08:33:05,310
in whenever they've
called or wanted to meet.

6934
08:33:05,310 --> 08:33:08,820
Key agencies in, you know,
that I've had consultation with

6935
08:33:08,820 --> 08:33:11,580
or communicated with
over the course of this

6936
08:33:11,580 --> 08:33:14,580
include the Niagara region
and NPCA, Niagara Parks,

6937
08:33:14,580 --> 08:33:16,950
or the Niagara Escarpment
Commission, sorry.

6938
08:33:16,950 --> 08:33:18,767
MTO, Hydro One, Mississaugas of the Credit

6939
08:33:18,767 --> 08:33:22,713
to the First Nation, Six
Nations, and the two boards.

6940
08:33:24,090 --> 08:33:28,770
And municipal works have been
key in this and helping with,

6941
08:33:28,770 --> 08:33:31,770
you know, commenting on
some of the study work

6942
08:33:31,770 --> 08:33:33,390
that's come back from the consultants

6943
08:33:33,390 --> 08:33:36,690
and worked with park staff
on making sure that were

6944
08:33:36,690 --> 08:33:39,183
or keeping our eye on
what they were after.

6945
08:33:40,140 --> 08:33:41,670
You know, the background studies,

6946
08:33:41,670 --> 08:33:45,150
we had a TIA done,
transportation impact study

6947
08:33:45,150 --> 08:33:48,120
and basically that's taking a benchmark

6948
08:33:48,120 --> 08:33:49,917
of what's happening out and
around these roads right now.

6949
08:33:49,917 --> 08:33:51,660
And after development's happening,

6950
08:33:51,660 --> 08:33:53,550
when you need to do
improvements, you know,

6951
08:33:53,550 --> 08:33:55,020
how much of these things are going to cost

6952
08:33:55,020 --> 08:33:58,410
and ultimately at 2051 or
when this thing builds out,

6953
08:33:58,410 --> 08:34:00,049
what's this going to look like?

6954
08:34:00,049 --> 08:34:01,710
You know, how many lanes,
where the intersections,

6955
08:34:01,710 --> 08:34:02,810
those types of things.

6956
08:34:04,080 --> 08:34:05,910
Functional servicing, similar approach.

6957
08:34:05,910 --> 08:34:08,633
What's out there today? Nothing
obviously as far as service.

6958
08:34:08,633 --> 08:34:10,890
Well, I shouldn't say
that there's water mains.

6959
08:34:10,890 --> 08:34:12,780
But the you know, where
they need to connect

6960
08:34:12,780 --> 08:34:14,010
or where they're going to service this.

6961
08:34:14,010 --> 08:34:16,560
The most feasible way to make
this community come online

6962
08:34:16,560 --> 08:34:21,067
with the core service of water
sanitary and storm sewers.

6963
08:34:25,230 --> 08:34:27,540
Looping the water mains is important.

6964
08:34:27,540 --> 08:34:31,050
This will need a pumping
station and a force main.

6965
08:34:31,050 --> 08:34:33,303
Those are probably the big pieces of this

6966
08:34:33,303 --> 08:34:35,883
as a community to service these lands.

6967
08:34:37,894 --> 08:34:38,994
So subwatershed study,

6968
08:34:40,020 --> 08:34:41,790
obviously taking stock of the environment,

6969
08:34:41,790 --> 08:34:46,200
what's out there, all the
botany, the ecological,

6970
08:34:46,200 --> 08:34:50,130
the botanical inventories,
the hydrological function,

6971
08:34:50,130 --> 08:34:51,720
even the hydro G,

6972
08:34:51,720 --> 08:34:53,253
like the water, groundwaters.

6973
08:34:54,570 --> 08:34:58,203
You know, that stuff was all
documented and continues to be,

6974
08:34:59,079 --> 08:35:01,770
I'm going to say core pieces.

6975
08:35:01,770 --> 08:35:04,530
And that's reflected in the designations

6976
08:35:04,530 --> 08:35:06,630
that I put forward in the plan.

6977
08:35:06,630 --> 08:35:08,520
It's basically done in similar,

6978
08:35:08,520 --> 08:35:10,740
but it didn't keep pace
with the other studies

6979
08:35:10,740 --> 08:35:14,580
because the subwatershed
studies, they take seasons.

6980
08:35:14,580 --> 08:35:17,160
Like we have to get through
the spring, summer, winter.

6981
08:35:17,160 --> 08:35:19,380
They get out there to do their inventories

6982
08:35:19,380 --> 08:35:20,970
and looking at things
at the different points

6983
08:35:20,970 --> 08:35:23,340
of the various seasons.

6984
08:35:23,340 --> 08:35:26,130
Andy comes across and
makes some recommendations.

6985
08:35:26,130 --> 08:35:29,400
During the draft, delivery
of that draft you know,

6986
08:35:29,400 --> 08:35:33,100
staff had some questions
and concerns, I guess,

6987
08:35:33,100 --> 08:35:37,260
and we felt that we needed
some additional eyes on this.

6988
08:35:37,260 --> 08:35:40,380
So we did do a peer review and
the peer review did come back

6989
08:35:40,380 --> 08:35:42,900
with an alternate sort of approach

6990
08:35:42,900 --> 08:35:47,470
of what really was like
identified as wetland

6991
08:35:48,743 --> 08:35:51,450
or some woodlands or any
other type of things.

6992
08:35:51,450 --> 08:35:53,580
There was one professional opinion

6993
08:35:53,580 --> 08:35:55,620
and a second professional
opinion that was varied.

6994
08:35:55,620 --> 08:35:59,310
So that kind of led us to
putting in place a screening.

6995
08:35:59,310 --> 08:36:01,395
So on the second schedule

6996
08:36:01,395 --> 08:36:02,840
of the official plan amendment here,

6997
08:36:02,840 --> 08:36:07,650
or the secondary plan
amendment AA, A, I think it is.

6998
08:36:07,650 --> 08:36:09,660
There's some screening
below the central wood lot

6999
08:36:09,660 --> 08:36:13,080
and there's some screening
on the north of Montrose

7000
08:36:13,080 --> 08:36:17,820
along the east side of Regency's property.

7001
08:36:17,820 --> 08:36:20,160
Those are identifying that you guys

7002
08:36:20,160 --> 08:36:22,560
are going to have to do
some very detailed work

7003
08:36:22,560 --> 08:36:25,950
and come up with the
answers of where or if

7004
08:36:25,950 --> 08:36:28,980
any environmental that would be added

7005
08:36:28,980 --> 08:36:31,170
to the ECA designation.

7006
08:36:31,170 --> 08:36:35,400
So that's where we're at with that one.

7007
08:36:35,400 --> 08:36:36,420
Land use compatibility.

7008
08:36:36,420 --> 08:36:38,880
I'm happy to tell council
that there really, you know,

7009
08:36:38,880 --> 08:36:42,300
isn't any industrial
that's going to be affected

7010
08:36:42,300 --> 08:36:43,900
by this community coming online.

7011
08:36:44,790 --> 08:36:48,240
We have two class two facilities

7012
08:36:48,240 --> 08:36:51,453
that were identified within
even a thousand meters of this.

7013
08:36:52,377 --> 08:36:55,710
One 700 meters away, Guald, the nursery.

7014
08:36:55,710 --> 08:36:58,020
Not an issue when you're
dealing with class twos.

7015
08:36:58,020 --> 08:36:59,730
300 is the minimum distance,

7016
08:36:59,730 --> 08:37:02,280
usually 70 meters of minimum separation.

7017
08:37:02,280 --> 08:37:03,581
So that was one.

7018
08:37:03,581 --> 08:37:04,973
And the other one is Commercial plaza down

7019
08:37:04,973 --> 08:37:05,880
at Thorold Stone Road, Montrose.

7020
08:37:05,880 --> 08:37:07,830
As you can tell, not an issue.

7021
08:37:07,830 --> 08:37:09,420
It's completely built
up there with houses.

7022
08:37:09,420 --> 08:37:11,370
So why would it even be an impact here?

7023
08:37:13,680 --> 08:37:15,960
They did have some recommendations for.

7024
08:37:15,960 --> 08:37:17,430
Later on in the studies
of the kind of things

7025
08:37:17,430 --> 08:37:19,410
you were dealing with tonight
when you get the applications

7026
08:37:19,410 --> 08:37:22,190
in, you know, noise and things like that

7027
08:37:22,190 --> 08:37:24,573
of the actual applications themselves.

7028
08:37:24,573 --> 08:37:25,406
They have to wait for them to come in

7029
08:37:25,406 --> 08:37:27,510
to see what you're actually dealing with.

7030
08:37:27,510 --> 08:37:29,790
As far as fiscal impact,
which was another study

7031
08:37:29,790 --> 08:37:30,623
that was done.

7032
08:37:30,623 --> 08:37:32,220
At the end of all of this,

7033
08:37:32,220 --> 08:37:33,750
at the end, everything's built.

7034
08:37:33,750 --> 08:37:36,027
You're looking at about six million,

7035
08:37:36,027 --> 08:37:38,120
6.8 million dollars in assessment.

7036
08:37:38,120 --> 08:37:42,420
It worked out to be
about like 805 per person

7037
08:37:42,420 --> 08:37:45,174
in the six or 7,000
people that are going to,

7038
08:37:45,174 --> 08:37:46,980
8,000 people that are
going to be jobs and people

7039
08:37:46,980 --> 08:37:47,913
in this community.

7040
08:37:51,030 --> 08:37:51,990
It was almost the wash.

7041
08:37:51,990 --> 08:37:54,630
I think the term in
the fiscal impact study

7042
08:37:54,630 --> 08:37:57,240
was that this is
generally revenue neutral.

7043
08:37:57,240 --> 08:37:59,580
So that's a good thing.

7044
08:37:59,580 --> 08:38:01,680
So just a quick, now we
get into some imagery

7045
08:38:01,680 --> 08:38:04,740
and stuff like that, but just quickly,

7046
08:38:04,740 --> 08:38:08,250
those two options were what
I came out with last year.

7047
08:38:08,250 --> 08:38:12,270
And we took those to the
public, heard comments.

7048
08:38:12,270 --> 08:38:15,840
I took them and I distilled
them into one of the,

7049
08:38:15,840 --> 08:38:18,180
calling the preferred land use option

7050
08:38:18,180 --> 08:38:19,860
or the preferred land use plan.

7051
08:38:19,860 --> 08:38:22,320
That was brought to council
back in September of last year.

7052
08:38:22,320 --> 08:38:23,310
Council endorsed that.

7053
08:38:23,310 --> 08:38:25,350
And the reason they did that
was that I needed a plan

7054
08:38:25,350 --> 08:38:27,090
to put to our consultants to say,

7055
08:38:27,090 --> 08:38:29,310
okay guys, this is what you need to study

7056
08:38:29,310 --> 08:38:31,489
and come back with all
your numbers and all your,

7057
08:38:31,489 --> 08:38:33,270
you know, what are we going to
need for servicing and pipes

7058
08:38:33,270 --> 08:38:34,320
and things like that.

7059
08:38:35,250 --> 08:38:38,463
So that was the basis of the,

7060
08:38:39,330 --> 08:38:43,560
I'll call it all the study
work, phase three study work.

7061
08:38:43,560 --> 08:38:45,480
Then we had drafted the draft,

7062
08:38:45,480 --> 08:38:47,280
we put a draft secondary plan together,

7063
08:38:47,280 --> 08:38:48,360
draft zoning together,

7064
08:38:48,360 --> 08:38:50,910
and we took that to the
public on April 1st.

7065
08:38:50,910 --> 08:38:52,500
And that was at Gale Centre,

7066
08:38:52,500 --> 08:38:55,080
and I would say that
was very well attended.

7067
08:38:55,080 --> 08:38:58,113
You know, that we had probably
100, 110 people out there.

7068
08:38:59,160 --> 08:39:02,610
So, you know, after that
meeting, we received comments

7069
08:39:02,610 --> 08:39:04,050
from a number of submissions.

7070
08:39:04,050 --> 08:39:06,780
They're all documented in
appendix five to the report.

7071
08:39:06,780 --> 08:39:11,190
And then there were some
modifications that I was asked

7072
08:39:11,190 --> 08:39:14,610
to look at and, you know,
I did make some changes.

7073
08:39:14,610 --> 08:39:17,790
They're minor changes. I
feel they're minor changes.

7074
08:39:17,790 --> 08:39:21,450
But you know, a lot of them
were from actually people

7075
08:39:21,450 --> 08:39:23,430
I'm expecting you'll
hear from here tonight

7076
08:39:23,430 --> 08:39:25,170
after I finished.

7077
08:39:25,170 --> 08:39:27,213
But I felt that they were accommodated.

7078
08:39:28,380 --> 08:39:30,780
And these arrows here are
just meant to illustrate

7079
08:39:30,780 --> 08:39:32,490
what things kind of changed.

7080
08:39:32,490 --> 08:39:33,930
So I'm not sure.

7081
08:39:33,930 --> 08:39:36,270
I think you can get the
picture of the areas of change.

7082
08:39:36,270 --> 08:39:40,263
If there's any questions after
this please feel free to ask.

7083
08:39:41,340 --> 08:39:44,370
You know, the amendment itself,
the official plan amendment

7084
08:39:44,370 --> 08:39:46,440
requires a little bit more than just,

7085
08:39:46,440 --> 08:39:47,820
here's a plan, put it in.

7086
08:39:47,820 --> 08:39:50,220
Our existing official plan
has a bunch of maps in it.

7087
08:39:50,220 --> 08:39:52,590
Those maps are outdated. I'll call that.

7088
08:39:52,590 --> 08:39:55,110
They need to be updated
because they didn't show

7089
08:39:55,110 --> 08:39:58,080
the urban area boundary even being in.

7090
08:39:58,080 --> 08:40:01,830
So these are referred to as,
I'll call these housekeeping.

7091
08:40:01,830 --> 08:40:04,193
This is just some of the maps
in the existing official plan

7092
08:40:04,193 --> 08:40:05,610
that have to be updated
because we're doing this

7093
08:40:05,610 --> 08:40:08,370
and these lands are brought
into the urban area.

7094
08:40:08,370 --> 08:40:12,480
And Schedule A has got
to change, A1, A2, B, D,

7095
08:40:12,480 --> 08:40:14,463
and the two appendices, C and D.

7096
08:40:17,460 --> 08:40:20,280
So this is the land use
plan that's Schedule A

7097
08:40:20,280 --> 08:40:22,200
for the secondary plan
that I'm asking council

7098
08:40:22,200 --> 08:40:24,483
to consider approval.

7099
08:40:26,280 --> 08:40:29,880
And with that, the next one
would be the environmental,

7100
08:40:29,880 --> 08:40:32,430
which showing these lands here.

7101
08:40:32,430 --> 08:40:37,320
I think we have a silver
maple mineral marsh

7102
08:40:37,320 --> 08:40:41,575
and the hickory oak on the top right.

7103
08:40:41,575 --> 08:40:44,490
There's some species of special concern.

7104
08:40:44,490 --> 08:40:49,350
The avian peewee and
there's some black gum tree,

7105
08:40:49,350 --> 08:40:52,740
provincially rare and there's
some buttonbush in there, so.

7106
08:40:52,740 --> 08:40:55,050
But this schedule here is
where you see the screening.

7107
08:40:55,050 --> 08:40:56,940
So there's a screening up at the top.

7108
08:40:56,940 --> 08:40:58,170
It's a little bit difficult to see here,

7109
08:40:58,170 --> 08:41:00,660
but those areas will be studied further.

7110
08:41:00,660 --> 08:41:02,940
And if there's anything there,
if there is anything there

7111
08:41:02,940 --> 08:41:05,883
that needs to be saved, then
it will get added to the ECA.

7112
08:41:06,900 --> 08:41:08,250
This is transportation plan.

7113
08:41:08,250 --> 08:41:10,290
Shows the network of the collector roads,

7114
08:41:10,290 --> 08:41:12,150
but active transportation.

7115
08:41:12,150 --> 08:41:13,950
And you remember from, you know,

7116
08:41:13,950 --> 08:41:16,500
the transportation master
plan a few months back

7117
08:41:16,500 --> 08:41:19,200
that the council approved
that looking at having more

7118
08:41:19,200 --> 08:41:21,450
active transportation in these roadways

7119
08:41:21,450 --> 08:41:23,160
in boulevard trails were something

7120
08:41:23,160 --> 08:41:24,810
that we want to do because
we're hearing from the people

7121
08:41:24,810 --> 08:41:26,310
that they don't want to be on the road

7122
08:41:26,310 --> 08:41:27,600
with their bikes or anything like that.

7123
08:41:27,600 --> 08:41:28,950
They want to be off the road.

7124
08:41:28,950 --> 08:41:31,320
So if it's just off the road on the curb,

7125
08:41:31,320 --> 08:41:32,733
getting a lot more use.

7126
08:41:35,430 --> 08:41:38,220
So just visually here, just
the yellow, the low density.

7127
08:41:38,220 --> 08:41:39,810
This is the kind of
thing that you might find

7128
08:41:39,810 --> 08:41:42,270
in the low density is subdivisions.

7129
08:41:42,270 --> 08:41:45,153
Townhouse, semis, singles.

7130
08:41:46,080 --> 08:41:48,390
And the one on the left there
really is a representation

7131
08:41:48,390 --> 08:41:50,610
of what we're looking
at maybe along the face

7132
08:41:50,610 --> 08:41:52,890
of the QEW at Montrose Road.

7133
08:41:52,890 --> 08:41:54,090
Instead of a noise wall,

7134
08:41:54,090 --> 08:41:56,400
this is something that
I would like to see.

7135
08:41:56,400 --> 08:41:58,710
Is an urban design face put to that

7136
08:41:58,710 --> 08:42:00,690
because the wall of these buildings here

7137
08:42:00,690 --> 08:42:01,800
act as the noise wall.

7138
08:42:01,800 --> 08:42:03,963
Why not put a face to the community?

7139
08:42:05,010 --> 08:42:07,473
Here we have the medium density.

7140
08:42:07,473 --> 08:42:09,330
That's where you're going to find stacked

7141
08:42:09,330 --> 08:42:12,060
back-to-back town homes,
maybe some block town homes

7142
08:42:12,060 --> 08:42:14,260
or a four to six storey
apartment buildings.

7143
08:42:15,360 --> 08:42:18,720
This would be the purple
area here is the mixed use.

7144
08:42:18,720 --> 08:42:20,490
This is where you're going to
find the highest densities,

7145
08:42:20,490 --> 08:42:22,920
the highest heights, and
ground floor commercial,

7146
08:42:22,920 --> 08:42:24,450
second floor office type uses.

7147
08:42:24,450 --> 08:42:27,840
So you know, that's
sort of representative.

7148
08:42:27,840 --> 08:42:30,090
So I've just tried to use these images

7149
08:42:30,090 --> 08:42:32,763
as the kind of massing
and things that you'd see.

7150
08:42:34,050 --> 08:42:37,170
The park, the community park
in the center of this plan

7151
08:42:37,170 --> 08:42:40,200
you know, parks staff
have maintained the need

7152
08:42:40,200 --> 08:42:43,680
for this community park
over the course of my work.

7153
08:42:43,680 --> 08:42:46,920
Making sure that I'm staying tuned to it.

7154
08:42:46,920 --> 08:42:49,560
It's centrally located there.

7155
08:42:49,560 --> 08:42:52,310
They're looking for four
hectares of usable park space.

7156
08:42:53,250 --> 08:42:58,250
So that's represented in the plan. Sorry.

7157
08:42:58,350 --> 08:43:00,500
And then we have the
stormwater management.

7158
08:43:01,470 --> 08:43:02,303
There's three ponds.

7159
08:43:02,303 --> 08:43:03,932
There's going to be three catchment areas

7160
08:43:03,932 --> 08:43:05,700
in a post development
situation or scenario.

7161
08:43:05,700 --> 08:43:07,470
And each are going to need a pond.

7162
08:43:07,470 --> 08:43:09,300
They're down close to where the Ten,

7163
08:43:09,300 --> 08:43:10,133
where they're going to settle.

7164
08:43:10,133 --> 08:43:13,050
These are going to be wet
ponds or plan to be wet ponds.

7165
08:43:13,050 --> 08:43:14,070
So we'll have a permanent pool.

7166
08:43:14,070 --> 08:43:17,640
So you're going to have
like this nice aesthetic

7167
08:43:17,640 --> 08:43:19,290
where you're going to
have, you know, water,

7168
08:43:19,290 --> 08:43:21,990
trees those types of things.

7169
08:43:21,990 --> 08:43:25,020
And really controlling the
water and the discharge

7170
08:43:25,020 --> 08:43:26,853
will be into the Ten.

7171
08:43:27,807 --> 08:43:30,390
The hydro corridor, speaking with them,

7172
08:43:30,390 --> 08:43:34,470
they're on board for
allowing us to do trails

7173
08:43:34,470 --> 08:43:36,270
along the hydro corridor, which is great.

7174
08:43:36,270 --> 08:43:38,820
Connect the community, get
people around that whole cycle.

7175
08:43:38,820 --> 08:43:41,170
Connect the southern
community for that matter.

7176
08:43:42,060 --> 08:43:43,977
But we of course need their approval, so

7177
08:43:43,977 --> 08:43:45,077
But they've been good.

7178
08:43:46,473 --> 08:43:49,860
The woodlots like I said, it's
going to be designated ECA

7179
08:43:49,860 --> 08:43:53,970
and zone DP, currently zoned
agricultural in the case.

7180
08:43:53,970 --> 08:43:56,670
So we're putting it into that protection.

7181
08:43:56,670 --> 08:43:59,403
And this is just a schedule
of the zoning by-law map.

7182
08:44:00,270 --> 08:44:04,170
When we did the change from
what you guys saw September

7183
08:44:04,170 --> 08:44:07,560
of last year till the
modifications that I did make

7184
08:44:07,560 --> 08:44:10,380
to the plan to bring in here for you,

7185
08:44:10,380 --> 08:44:12,630
one of the things that I
did was try and make sure

7186
08:44:12,630 --> 08:44:14,760
that I was balancing the population,

7187
08:44:14,760 --> 08:44:17,910
unit yields and employment.

7188
08:44:17,910 --> 08:44:22,080
I'm close. I'm only minus.
There's difference of 37 units.

7189
08:44:22,080 --> 08:44:27,080
A difference of 490
population and 190 more jobs,

7190
08:44:27,330 --> 08:44:29,760
but jobs population.

7191
08:44:29,760 --> 08:44:34,760
So 350 people really and 37
units. So it's pretty balanced.

7192
08:44:34,830 --> 08:44:37,470
I wasn't just doing that on a whim.

7193
08:44:37,470 --> 08:44:39,960
I did that work, calculated that work,

7194
08:44:39,960 --> 08:44:43,080
but I wanted to be sure that
it wasn't going to impact

7195
08:44:43,080 --> 08:44:46,620
the transportation study
work, the technical studies,

7196
08:44:46,620 --> 08:44:50,550
and the servicing.

7197
08:44:50,550 --> 08:44:52,830
So the pumping station, force mains

7198
08:44:52,830 --> 08:44:54,060
and things of that nature.

7199
08:44:54,060 --> 08:44:56,160
I wanted to make sure that these numbers

7200
08:44:56,160 --> 08:44:58,350
were coming back balanced,
but I put it to my engineers

7201
08:44:58,350 --> 08:45:00,240
and said, "Hey, have I done a good job?

7202
08:45:00,240 --> 08:45:02,010
Does this balance? Does this work?"

7203
08:45:02,010 --> 08:45:03,120
And they put the...

7204
08:45:03,120 --> 08:45:05,253
You see the addendums in the reports.

7205
08:45:06,120 --> 08:45:08,037
Yes, you know, they can support that.

7206
08:45:08,037 --> 08:45:09,573
And it's inconsequential.

7207
08:45:10,410 --> 08:45:13,080
So just getting to the end here, folks,

7208
08:45:13,080 --> 08:45:15,630
secondary plans a long-term plan.

7209
08:45:15,630 --> 08:45:18,240
The plan is a step in the process.

7210
08:45:18,240 --> 08:45:20,340
It provides next level planning to assist

7211
08:45:20,340 --> 08:45:22,800
with capital and financial.

7212
08:45:22,800 --> 08:45:26,460
It protects the natural features
that we have identified.

7213
08:45:26,460 --> 08:45:28,980
It has a broad mix of units.

7214
08:45:28,980 --> 08:45:33,690
Community amenities and
assets are optimally local,

7215
08:45:33,690 --> 08:45:36,873
complementing one another in
the central part of the plan.

7216
08:45:38,340 --> 08:45:40,450
Core servicing, transportation, schematics

7217
08:45:41,328 --> 08:45:43,350
have been modeled and
demonstrated feasible.

7218
08:45:43,350 --> 08:45:44,940
Additional studies will be required

7219
08:45:44,940 --> 08:45:47,100
because we are dealing
with the MTO and the region

7220
08:45:47,100 --> 08:45:48,060
have a lot of stuff here.

7221
08:45:48,060 --> 08:45:49,920
They have obviously the highway corridor

7222
08:45:49,920 --> 08:45:53,040
and the on-ramp is a big
concern for them for traffic.

7223
08:45:53,040 --> 08:45:54,780
But the region actually
owns a lot of the roads

7224
08:45:54,780 --> 08:45:55,613
that are around this.

7225
08:45:55,613 --> 08:45:57,840
I mean, the only thing the city
owns is Kalar from Mountain

7226
08:45:57,840 --> 08:45:58,673
down to the...

7227
08:45:59,820 --> 08:46:03,780
When I say own, control
is Kalar from Mountain

7228
08:46:03,780 --> 08:46:05,283
down to the Hydro Corridor.

7229
08:46:07,260 --> 08:46:10,080
And it gives the residents in the area

7230
08:46:10,080 --> 08:46:12,420
an idea of what they should expect

7231
08:46:12,420 --> 08:46:14,040
when things start to be built.

7232
08:46:14,040 --> 08:46:16,950
So I'm looking for
council's approval on that.

7233
08:46:16,950 --> 08:46:18,330
So I can just leave this slide up,

7234
08:46:18,330 --> 08:46:21,203
but I can start taking questions
from council if you'd like.

7235
08:46:22,691 --> 08:46:24,706
- [Jim] Okay, do you have
any questions for Mr. Millar,

7236
08:46:24,706 --> 08:46:26,447
from council.

7237
08:46:26,447 --> 08:46:29,823
Sorry, okay, do we have any
questions of Mr. Millar?

7238
08:46:31,410 --> 08:46:33,963
Okay. Seeing none. Thank you, sir.

7239
08:46:35,940 --> 08:46:39,480
Members of the public
are advised that failure

7240
08:46:39,480 --> 08:46:43,230
to make an oral or written
submission at this public meeting

7241
08:46:43,230 --> 08:46:45,300
could result in the Ontario Land Tribunal

7242
08:46:45,300 --> 08:46:48,540
dismissing any referral that it receives.

7243
08:46:48,540 --> 08:46:51,780
Council will hear from anyone
other than the applicant

7244
08:46:51,780 --> 08:46:54,540
who wishes to speak to
the proposed amendments.

7245
08:46:54,540 --> 08:46:56,973
Mr. Clerk, do we have
anyone pre-registered?

7246
08:46:58,560 --> 08:47:00,540
- Yes, Your Worship. There were a couple.

7247
08:47:00,540 --> 08:47:04,053
Cheryl Sprung and Robert Loeffler.

7248
08:47:13,200 --> 08:47:14,220
- Turn any of this on.

7249
08:47:14,220 --> 08:47:16,320
- You can lower that
whole podium if you like.

7250
08:47:16,320 --> 08:47:17,153
The whole podium.

7251
08:47:17,153 --> 08:47:18,990
There's a little button
on the front there.

7252
08:47:18,990 --> 08:47:20,304
- Is it on?
- The other way.

7253
08:47:20,304 --> 08:47:21,137
- Oh, okay.

7254
08:47:21,137 --> 08:47:22,110
- And just state again, if you could,

7255
08:47:22,110 --> 08:47:23,430
your name, your address,

7256
08:47:23,430 --> 08:47:25,800
and then you'll have up to
five minutes once you start.

7257
08:47:25,800 --> 08:47:30,300
- Okay, Cheryl Sprung, 2600
Montrose Road, Unit three,

7258
08:47:30,300 --> 08:47:32,090
Shady Oaks Park.

7259
08:47:32,090 --> 08:47:32,923
- Oh yeah. Yep.

7260
08:47:32,923 --> 08:47:36,930
- Okay. We purchased a home,
moved it there in 2019.

7261
08:47:38,580 --> 08:47:41,526
Didn't hear anything about this until?

7262
08:47:41,526 --> 08:47:42,360
- 27th.

7263
08:47:42,360 --> 08:47:43,503
- 27th of July.

7264
08:47:44,340 --> 08:47:49,020
And we are shocked. Our house
is currently up for sale.

7265
08:47:49,020 --> 08:47:51,000
Pretty sure that it's not going to sell

7266
08:47:51,000 --> 08:47:52,980
with this proposed plan,

7267
08:47:52,980 --> 08:47:57,980
because obviously the land
that we live on is leased land,

7268
08:47:58,110 --> 08:48:01,653
and it's going to be taken
in as part of the plan.

7269
08:48:02,760 --> 08:48:06,240
We're kind of concerned
that we're not going to sell

7270
08:48:06,240 --> 08:48:09,150
because of what's coming
down the pipe sometime

7271
08:48:09,150 --> 08:48:11,910
in the near future or long-term future.

7272
08:48:11,910 --> 08:48:13,953
- Who's responsible for compensation?

7273
08:48:14,947 --> 08:48:16,230
- We want to know if there's going to be

7274
08:48:16,230 --> 08:48:18,270
any kind of compensation made to us.

7275
08:48:18,270 --> 08:48:22,020
Our house is on the market
right now for 179,000.

7276
08:48:22,020 --> 08:48:25,830
Our realtor has been
advised now of the plan,

7277
08:48:25,830 --> 08:48:29,160
and it's making it very difficult
for him to sell our home.

7278
08:48:29,160 --> 08:48:31,260
- And I'm sorry, how long
ago did you say you moved in?

7279
08:48:31,260 --> 08:48:34,050
- We moved there in 2019.
- '19.

7280
08:48:34,050 --> 08:48:35,820
- We brought the home there.

7281
08:48:35,820 --> 08:48:39,960
It's a 2006 model.

7282
08:48:39,960 --> 08:48:44,490
It has been all completely
upgraded, refurbished inside.

7283
08:48:44,490 --> 08:48:46,230
My husband's a general contractor.

7284
08:48:46,230 --> 08:48:48,750
That's what he's done to
the inside of the home.

7285
08:48:48,750 --> 08:48:51,540
Some of the other places that are in there

7286
08:48:51,540 --> 08:48:53,160
have mortgages on them.

7287
08:48:53,160 --> 08:48:56,700
Some of them are worth probably $5,000.

7288
08:48:56,700 --> 08:49:00,510
We cannot be put in the same
category as everybody there.

7289
08:49:00,510 --> 08:49:02,080
And we're hoping that we won't be.

7290
08:49:02,080 --> 08:49:04,470
- Okay. And can it be moved? Can it be-

7291
08:49:04,470 --> 08:49:05,303
- It could be,

7292
08:49:05,303 --> 08:49:07,680
but there's a very difficult
situation with that.

7293
08:49:07,680 --> 08:49:10,230
Most parks where you can move them to,

7294
08:49:10,230 --> 08:49:14,638
have a 20 year expiration
date on the age of the home.

7295
08:49:14,638 --> 08:49:15,555
- So it's 20 years old.

7296
08:49:15,555 --> 08:49:17,790
- So if moving it, it's 20 years old now.

7297
08:49:17,790 --> 08:49:20,220
It's a 2006 model.

7298
08:49:20,220 --> 08:49:23,490
So moving it to somewhere
else would be a very.

7299
08:49:23,490 --> 08:49:24,840
It would be very difficult.

7300
08:49:24,840 --> 08:49:27,480
- Okay, got it.
- And it's also very difficult

7301
08:49:27,480 --> 08:49:29,740
to find those places available nowadays

7302
08:49:30,750 --> 08:49:34,110
- Any questions of our
speakers from councillors?

7303
08:49:34,110 --> 08:49:36,420
Sorry, I was kind of
hogging the questions.

7304
08:49:36,420 --> 08:49:37,800
Yep. Councillor Strange.

7305
08:49:37,800 --> 08:49:41,859
- [Mike] Yeah. I'm just, so
you live in like a mobile home?

7306
08:49:41,859 --> 08:49:43,260
- It's a mobile home.
- [Mike] A mobile home. Okay.

7307
08:49:43,260 --> 08:49:46,191
- Correct.
- [Mike] There's a bunch.

7308
08:49:46,191 --> 08:49:47,806
- Yeah, there's 15
- Or 16.

7309
08:49:47,806 --> 08:49:49,260
- 16 units there.
- 16.

7310
08:49:49,260 --> 08:49:50,250
- Plus a rental house.

7311
08:49:50,250 --> 08:49:53,580
- And we've heard no
discussion on what's to become

7312
08:49:53,580 --> 08:49:56,493
of this park and the
residents that live there.

7313
08:49:56,493 --> 08:49:58,760
It's never been brought up.

7314
08:49:58,760 --> 08:49:59,593
- The owner of the?

7315
08:49:59,593 --> 08:50:01,680
- The owner of the
property was supposedly,

7316
08:50:01,680 --> 08:50:05,520
according to Mr. Millar's
information that I read online,

7317
08:50:05,520 --> 08:50:09,150
was supposed to make notice to anybody

7318
08:50:09,150 --> 08:50:12,030
that's renting to more
than seven or more people,

7319
08:50:12,030 --> 08:50:14,820
which there's plenty more
than seven living there.

7320
08:50:14,820 --> 08:50:18,780
We were supposed to get
information on this meeting today,

7321
08:50:18,780 --> 08:50:20,070
by July 11th.

7322
08:50:20,070 --> 08:50:22,320
- So the owner never got any information

7323
08:50:22,320 --> 08:50:23,153
or never gave it to you?

7324
08:50:23,153 --> 08:50:24,750
- We did receive information.

7325
08:50:24,750 --> 08:50:29,750
However, we did not receive
it by mail until July 26th.

7326
08:50:29,820 --> 08:50:32,243
- What's the name of the?

7327
08:50:32,243 --> 08:50:33,076
- Stanford Realty.

7328
08:50:33,076 --> 08:50:34,756
- Shady Oaks.
- Shady Oaks.

7329
08:50:34,756 --> 08:50:35,824
- Park.
- Mobile.

7330
08:50:35,824 --> 08:50:37,620
- Mobile Home Park. Yeah.
- Okay.

7331
08:50:37,620 --> 08:50:38,834
- Yeah.

7332
08:50:38,834 --> 08:50:40,260
- It's owned by Stanford Realty?

7333
08:50:40,260 --> 08:50:41,093
- We don't know who owns them.

7334
08:50:41,093 --> 08:50:42,330
- Managed by them.

7335
08:50:42,330 --> 08:50:44,310
- It's property management.

7336
08:50:44,310 --> 08:50:47,640
And I'm pretty sure that it's
an Ontario limited corporation

7337
08:50:47,640 --> 08:50:49,157
that owns the property that we live on.

7338
08:50:49,157 --> 08:50:50,850
- We can find that information out.

7339
08:50:50,850 --> 08:50:52,925
- Okay. That would be greatly appreciated.

7340
08:50:52,925 --> 08:50:54,960
- That's great. Okay.
Thank you. Appreciate.

7341
08:50:54,960 --> 08:50:56,370
Is there any other questions or comments

7342
08:50:56,370 --> 08:50:57,660
by staff or anyone else?

7343
08:50:57,660 --> 08:50:59,850
No? Okay. Thank you very much.

7344
08:50:59,850 --> 08:51:00,753
- Okay, thank you.

7345
08:51:02,070 --> 08:51:04,420
- Mr. Clerk, do we have
anyone else registered?

7346
08:51:07,410 --> 08:51:09,450
- Next we have Italia Gilberti.

7347
08:51:09,450 --> 08:51:11,193
speaking on behalf of Club Italia.

7348
08:51:12,830 --> 08:51:16,800
- Oh, there's Italia. It's
here. Hello, come forward.

7349
08:51:16,800 --> 08:51:19,353
You can adjust the podium, Italia.

7350
08:51:20,940 --> 08:51:23,940
- Can I defer my comments
till after my partner,

7351
08:51:23,940 --> 08:51:25,140
Rocky Vacca speaks?

7352
08:51:25,140 --> 08:51:27,903
Because I'm just going to
reiterate what he says.

7353
08:51:28,920 --> 08:51:30,630
I act for Club Italia.

7354
08:51:30,630 --> 08:51:33,390
I have three of the board
members here with me,

7355
08:51:33,390 --> 08:51:37,030
and we fully support the
comments that Mr. Vacca has made

7356
08:51:38,049 --> 08:51:41,580
to staff and to council
through some correspondence

7357
08:51:41,580 --> 08:51:43,560
that was sent in on Friday.

7358
08:51:43,560 --> 08:51:45,630
I don't want to take away his thunder.

7359
08:51:45,630 --> 08:51:50,070
So we're here to support
Mountain View and their comments

7360
08:51:50,070 --> 08:51:52,083
and specifically their plan.

7361
08:51:53,388 --> 08:51:54,868
- Okay. Yeah, that's great.

7362
08:51:54,868 --> 08:51:55,767
- Thank you.

7363
08:51:55,767 --> 08:51:57,630
- Oh, thank you. Okay.

7364
08:51:57,630 --> 08:51:59,850
Mr. Clerk, do we have
anyone else registered?

7365
08:51:59,850 --> 08:52:01,950
- And well, just before
we go to Mr. Vacca,

7366
08:52:01,950 --> 08:52:02,970
you could go to the gallery

7367
08:52:02,970 --> 08:52:03,970
and see if there's anyone else here.

7368
08:52:03,970 --> 08:52:06,360
- Sure, is there anyone here
other than the presenter?

7369
08:52:06,360 --> 08:52:08,880
Yes, come forward. Yep.
Well, one at a time.

7370
08:52:08,880 --> 08:52:12,120
And then Mr. Bacher, if you
want to introduce yourself

7371
08:52:12,120 --> 08:52:13,650
and your address and
then you have up to five-

7372
08:52:13,650 --> 08:52:14,650
- Bacher, thank you.

7373
08:52:16,960 --> 08:52:21,673
Yes, I'm pleased to speak in
support of the secondary plan.

7374
08:52:23,670 --> 08:52:28,670
We understand that the Niagara
Falls Planning Department

7375
08:52:29,760 --> 08:52:34,080
for the past five years has
taken a very good approach

7376
08:52:34,080 --> 08:52:35,373
to these lands.

7377
08:52:37,110 --> 08:52:41,490
The planning department,
I believe five years ago,

7378
08:52:41,490 --> 08:52:45,900
they made very clear
that they were opposed

7379
08:52:45,900 --> 08:52:48,903
to the urban expansion of this area.

7380
08:52:51,540 --> 08:52:55,211
Gave very good reasons
for that it was not...

7381
08:52:55,211 --> 08:52:58,770
It would actually exacerbate
the planning problems

7382
08:52:58,770 --> 08:53:03,150
of addressing the real core housing needs

7383
08:53:03,150 --> 08:53:05,103
of the City of Niagara Falls.

7384
08:53:06,780 --> 08:53:10,500
The region wrongly did
not follow their advice

7385
08:53:10,500 --> 08:53:14,733
and the expansion in effect
was imposed on the city.

7386
08:53:17,070 --> 08:53:22,070
But after that, the city
council did the right thing

7387
08:53:25,170 --> 08:53:30,170
and did damage control through
this secondary plan process.

7388
08:53:33,090 --> 08:53:37,943
Which was quite elaborate
and had very good input,

7389
08:53:40,710 --> 08:53:45,393
especially the ecological
studies by Aquafor Beech.

7390
08:53:47,160 --> 08:53:50,880
I would like to stress

7391
08:53:50,880 --> 08:53:55,880
that the good result because
of really heroic work

7392
08:53:58,290 --> 08:54:03,290
by someone in the gallery
and Jean Grandoni.

7393
08:54:03,859 --> 08:54:08,859
There's also expert Dr. Mike Dickman,

7394
08:54:13,020 --> 08:54:18,020
who gave excellent testimony
to the Ontario Municipal Board

7395
08:54:20,340 --> 08:54:24,780
about the problems of
the original concept plan

7396
08:54:24,780 --> 08:54:26,793
by Club Italia,

7397
08:54:28,590 --> 08:54:31,290
which fortunately has not been followed

7398
08:54:31,290 --> 08:54:33,363
in the secondary plan.

7399
08:54:34,590 --> 08:54:37,500
The original concept plan,

7400
08:54:37,500 --> 08:54:42,500
contrary to the guidelines
for stormwater management,

7401
08:54:44,520 --> 08:54:48,540
called for a stormwater management pond

7402
08:54:48,540 --> 08:54:53,540
in the middle of the large forest

7403
08:54:53,910 --> 08:54:56,673
that's a large block in green.

7404
08:54:58,290 --> 08:55:00,930
And the work by the secondary plan

7405
08:55:00,930 --> 08:55:03,840
indicated that this is
an old growth forest

7406
08:55:03,840 --> 08:55:06,933
of more than hundred years of age.

7407
08:55:09,630 --> 08:55:14,040
And as a result of the secondary plan

7408
08:55:14,040 --> 08:55:18,753
contrary to what was originally
proposed by Club Italia,

7409
08:55:20,460 --> 08:55:25,230
there is not going to be any
stormwater management pond

7410
08:55:25,230 --> 08:55:27,183
in this old growth forest.

7411
08:55:28,440 --> 08:55:33,440
The stormwater management ponds

7412
08:55:35,370 --> 08:55:40,370
will be adjacent to the forest
and essentially buffer it

7413
08:55:40,890 --> 08:55:44,520
and protect the wildlife in there

7414
08:55:44,520 --> 08:55:46,353
that are quite significant.

7415
08:55:47,190 --> 08:55:50,900
In addition to the species
mentioned by Mr. Millar,

7416
08:55:53,010 --> 08:55:58,010
they're two significant amphibians,
the western chorus frog,

7417
08:56:00,720 --> 08:56:05,193
which is federally endangered
and the spring peeper.

7418
08:56:07,440 --> 08:56:12,440
And also the community park
south of this old growth forest

7419
08:56:14,220 --> 08:56:17,430
will, you know, buffer
and protect the wildlife

7420
08:56:17,430 --> 08:56:19,710
which need, you know, additional range

7421
08:56:19,710 --> 08:56:24,710
beyond the core woodland area.

7422
08:56:27,630 --> 08:56:32,630
So I'm quite pleased at the outcome

7423
08:56:32,730 --> 08:56:37,050
and that speaks volume for the good work

7424
08:56:37,050 --> 08:56:41,860
of citizens such as Jean
Grandoni and Mike Dickman

7425
08:56:42,720 --> 08:56:45,300
getting involved in the process

7426
08:56:45,300 --> 08:56:49,583
for a very long time and
having a positive impact

7427
08:56:50,940 --> 08:56:54,600
in the land use planning project process

7428
08:56:54,600 --> 08:56:56,283
to protect the environment.

7429
08:56:59,161 --> 08:57:00,300
So that's my.

7430
08:57:00,300 --> 08:57:01,133
- All right, thank you.

7431
08:57:01,133 --> 08:57:04,620
Thank you. Any questions for
Mr. Bacher? No, we're good.

7432
08:57:04,620 --> 08:57:06,000
That's great. Thank you very much.

7433
08:57:06,000 --> 08:57:06,833
- Thank you.

7434
08:57:09,900 --> 08:57:12,150
- Ms. Grandoni, did you
want to come forward?

7435
08:57:14,850 --> 08:57:16,770
Yeah, well, the only thing
is we need the microphone

7436
08:57:16,770 --> 08:57:19,743
because we won't be able to
hear you, especially at home.

7437
08:57:20,880 --> 08:57:24,030
Oh, well, she's almost there
now, but thanks. Thanks, Logan.

7438
08:57:24,030 --> 08:57:24,903
Appreciate that.

7439
08:57:30,030 --> 08:57:33,510
- I'm not as complimentary as my friend,

7440
08:57:33,510 --> 08:57:35,343
Mr. Bacher I'm afraid.

7441
08:57:36,600 --> 08:57:39,300
I don't agree with this, never will.

7442
08:57:39,300 --> 08:57:42,210
There was no agricultural representatives

7443
08:57:42,210 --> 08:57:45,780
on your focus group, and we haven't heard

7444
08:57:45,780 --> 08:57:47,970
how you're going to service this.

7445
08:57:47,970 --> 08:57:51,060
I assume it's going into the
Kalar Road pumping station,

7446
08:57:51,060 --> 08:57:54,390
which is nothing but a ticking time bomb.

7447
08:57:54,390 --> 08:57:57,783
It's had all kinds of
backups in recent storms.

7448
08:57:58,650 --> 08:58:00,540
So I'd like some answers

7449
08:58:00,540 --> 08:58:02,970
as to how you're going to service it,

7450
08:58:02,970 --> 08:58:04,983
where the sewage is going to end up.

7451
08:58:05,970 --> 08:58:08,180
And you should be asked,

7452
08:58:15,930 --> 08:58:18,870
council should be asking questions like

7453
08:58:18,870 --> 08:58:21,003
how often does the alarm go off?

7454
08:58:21,960 --> 08:58:24,483
When was the last pumping station flood?

7455
08:58:26,970 --> 08:58:30,620
And how it fared in the
recent storms. Thank you.

7456
08:58:34,469 --> 08:58:36,181
- Okay. Thank you, Ms. Grandoni.

7457
08:58:36,181 --> 08:58:40,590
Maybe I don't know if
we can go to Mr. Sticca,

7458
08:58:40,590 --> 08:58:42,450
who can help us out on
the municipal works.

7459
08:58:42,450 --> 08:58:44,430
And then Mr. Millar.

7460
08:58:44,430 --> 08:58:46,170
I don't, Mr. Millar,
did you want to jump in?

7461
08:58:46,170 --> 08:58:47,570
Okay. Yeah, that'd be great.

7462
08:58:54,840 --> 08:58:55,950
- Thank you.

7463
08:58:55,950 --> 08:58:59,070
Let me just say that the
agricultural representatives,

7464
08:58:59,070 --> 08:59:01,160
these lands aren't...

7465
08:59:03,150 --> 08:59:06,330
Coming out of agricultural
happened back in 2022 when-

7466
08:59:06,330 --> 08:59:09,097
- [Audience Member] The
whole area is like this.

7467
08:59:09,097 --> 08:59:13,264
All rented. That's how badly
you looked after our farms.

7468
08:59:13,264 --> 08:59:14,307
- Yeah, but I'm just talking about

7469
08:59:14,307 --> 08:59:16,560
the secondary plan itself.

7470
08:59:16,560 --> 08:59:18,630
That actually happened back in 2022

7471
08:59:18,630 --> 08:59:20,730
when the region brought these lands in.

7472
08:59:20,730 --> 08:59:23,053
It's brought in for urban development.

7473
08:59:23,053 --> 08:59:26,250
You know, the agricultural
study work was done

7474
08:59:26,250 --> 08:59:28,260
at that time at the region.

7475
08:59:28,260 --> 08:59:30,660
You know, so the whole selection process

7476
08:59:30,660 --> 08:59:34,050
of the boundaries of which
sites were the most appropriate

7477
08:59:34,050 --> 08:59:34,890
to bring in.

7478
08:59:34,890 --> 08:59:38,310
All that work happened back in 2020, 2022,

7479
08:59:38,310 --> 08:59:39,360
that period of time.

7480
08:59:39,360 --> 08:59:42,090
So they are called
agricultural impact study

7481
08:59:42,090 --> 08:59:44,010
was prepared by the
region to bring these in.

7482
08:59:44,010 --> 08:59:46,740
So I'm just dealing with the lands inside,

7483
08:59:46,740 --> 08:59:51,090
which are, here's your
community development land

7484
08:59:51,090 --> 08:59:53,610
and go plan your community.

7485
08:59:53,610 --> 08:59:55,710
They're making us do that. So that's fine.

7486
08:59:56,580 --> 08:59:58,730
Kalar Road, that is the most...

7487
09:00:00,120 --> 09:00:02,820
That is the destination for the effluent

7488
09:00:02,820 --> 09:00:04,410
from all of this community.

7489
09:00:04,410 --> 09:00:07,980
There will be a pumping station
built somewhere, you know,

7490
09:00:07,980 --> 09:00:12,980
in the lower area down
south of the Club Italia.

7491
09:00:14,670 --> 09:00:18,330
And a pumping station in a
force main that will take

7492
09:00:18,330 --> 09:00:21,660
the collection of this community's
effluent all the way down

7493
09:00:21,660 --> 09:00:23,730
south of Thorold Stone Road

7494
09:00:23,730 --> 09:00:26,790
to the Kalar Road pumping station

7495
09:00:26,790 --> 09:00:29,850
As far as capacities and
things of that nature go,

7496
09:00:29,850 --> 09:00:31,620
that's all engineering stuff.

7497
09:00:31,620 --> 09:00:34,380
I do know that the region
has capacity right now

7498
09:00:34,380 --> 09:00:35,500
in that plant.

7499
09:00:35,500 --> 09:00:37,680
I do know it will need upgrading by 2051,

7500
09:00:37,680 --> 09:00:40,737
but everything we do here,
this whole pumping station,

7501
09:00:40,737 --> 09:00:44,040
the force mains, we have to get, you know,

7502
09:00:44,040 --> 09:00:47,940
that there will be a need
for the ministry approvals,

7503
09:00:47,940 --> 09:00:49,350
regional approvals.

7504
09:00:49,350 --> 09:00:51,960
It's not something that we're,
you know, doing in isolation.

7505
09:00:51,960 --> 09:00:56,960
We need to gain the people
who control those services

7506
09:00:57,210 --> 09:01:00,660
regionally right now have
to gain their approval

7507
09:01:00,660 --> 09:01:02,130
and they're well aware of this.

7508
09:01:02,130 --> 09:01:05,010
They brought the lands into
the community for development.

7509
09:01:05,010 --> 09:01:07,653
So it's not as though it's
something new to them.

7510
09:01:09,330 --> 09:01:10,440
Thank you. Sorry your Honor.

7511
09:01:10,440 --> 09:01:11,273
- Thank you

7512
09:01:12,362 --> 09:01:14,363
Anything to add? No? Okay.

7513
09:01:14,363 --> 09:01:16,860
I think that answers that for now.

7514
09:01:16,860 --> 09:01:18,630
Is there anyone else here
other than the applicant

7515
09:01:18,630 --> 09:01:19,860
who wishes to address council?

7516
09:01:19,860 --> 09:01:22,033
Yes, please come forward.

7517
09:01:22,033 --> 09:01:23,760
You can state your name and address

7518
09:01:23,760 --> 09:01:25,413
and then up to five minutes.

7519
09:01:29,115 --> 09:01:31,770
- I live at 2600 Montrose Road, unit two.

7520
09:01:31,770 --> 09:01:36,770
Bob and Cheryl, my neighbors.
I bought the place in 2020.

7521
09:01:37,273 --> 09:01:39,360
Me and my wife though we
were going to retire there.

7522
09:01:39,360 --> 09:01:41,460
Nobody let us know that all
this was going to happen.

7523
09:01:41,460 --> 09:01:43,110
So we don't know.

7524
09:01:43,110 --> 09:01:45,840
Like what about the 15, 20
people that live in there?

7525
09:01:45,840 --> 09:01:47,190
- [Jim] You're talking about Shady Oaks?

7526
09:01:47,190 --> 09:01:48,407
- What happens to us? Yeah.
- [Jim] Shady Oaks.

7527
09:01:48,407 --> 09:01:49,353
- That's what I want to know.

7528
09:01:49,353 --> 09:01:51,386
- [Jim] Were you not notified either?

7529
09:01:51,386 --> 09:01:52,219
- Not at all.

7530
09:01:52,219 --> 09:01:54,180
- [Jim] Nobody was notified.
- Not at all by anybody.

7531
09:01:54,180 --> 09:01:56,630
- [Jim] We'll have to
follow up on it. Pardon me?

7532
09:01:57,648 --> 09:01:58,481
- Not by anybody.

7533
09:01:58,481 --> 09:01:59,490
- [Jim] Okay. Well, we'll follow up.

7534
09:01:59,490 --> 09:02:01,260
This is good information.

7535
09:02:01,260 --> 09:02:03,390
- We'd just like to know what's
going to happen to us people

7536
09:02:03,390 --> 09:02:04,223
that live there.

7537
09:02:04,223 --> 09:02:05,056
- Yeah.

7538
09:02:05,056 --> 09:02:07,320
- You know, like she said,
some are worth 5,000.

7539
09:02:07,320 --> 09:02:09,270
We paid a little over 100,000 for ours.

7540
09:02:09,270 --> 09:02:12,240
I mean, we thought we were
going to retire there.

7541
09:02:12,240 --> 09:02:15,540
And come to find out
that it's not a thing.

7542
09:02:15,540 --> 09:02:18,030
So I just want to be on the record.

7543
09:02:18,030 --> 09:02:20,580
- Just before you run away, I
think Councillor Nieuwesteeg

7544
09:02:20,580 --> 09:02:21,420
would like to ask you a question.

7545
09:02:21,420 --> 09:02:23,580
- Actually, I'm not sure
who I'm directing it to.

7546
09:02:23,580 --> 09:02:27,270
So my understanding is we sent a notice

7547
09:02:27,270 --> 09:02:31,050
to the owner of that land area.

7548
09:02:31,050 --> 09:02:32,760
What happens in a case like,

7549
09:02:32,760 --> 09:02:34,860
there's somebody has to hold
some responsibility here.

7550
09:02:34,860 --> 09:02:36,270
This is unfair.

7551
09:02:36,270 --> 09:02:37,590
It does not make us feel very good

7552
09:02:37,590 --> 09:02:39,390
that you're here in this situation

7553
09:02:39,390 --> 09:02:42,330
because we know that
there's a process in place.

7554
09:02:42,330 --> 09:02:45,720
We are confident that
the process is in place

7555
09:02:45,720 --> 09:02:48,270
to get to this point right
now when we've been doing this

7556
09:02:48,270 --> 09:02:52,470
for two years and to find out
that you've not been notified

7557
09:02:52,470 --> 09:02:56,670
and can be technically out of your homes.

7558
09:02:56,670 --> 09:02:57,503
- [Audience Member] Be homeless.

7559
09:02:57,503 --> 09:03:01,170
- Homeless. This is
something that disturbs me.

7560
09:03:01,170 --> 09:03:03,630
So I want to put some...

7561
09:03:03,630 --> 09:03:06,060
I think we have to take some action here

7562
09:03:06,060 --> 09:03:07,921
and figure out who is responsible.

7563
09:03:07,921 --> 09:03:10,290
- Well, there's about 15,
20 people that live there.

7564
09:03:10,290 --> 09:03:11,753
You know, I'm not the only one.

7565
09:03:11,753 --> 09:03:12,586
- It's just wrong.

7566
09:03:12,586 --> 09:03:13,419
- The only ones that's just, you know.

7567
09:03:13,419 --> 09:03:15,090
- I don't know if Mr. Millar,
can you speak to that?

7568
09:03:15,090 --> 09:03:18,090
Maybe Mr. Millar can address this because,

7569
09:03:18,090 --> 09:03:21,750
just so you know, we hear
you and we're concerned.

7570
09:03:21,750 --> 09:03:24,660
This is not a good situation.

7571
09:03:24,660 --> 09:03:26,070
- Yeah, Mr. Millar, what can you tell us

7572
09:03:26,070 --> 09:03:29,400
about the Shady Oaks area,

7573
09:03:29,400 --> 09:03:32,130
the mobile homes and the status of that

7574
09:03:32,130 --> 09:03:35,370
and notification and it's
obviously concerning.

7575
09:03:35,370 --> 09:03:36,990
We don't want people to end up homeless

7576
09:03:36,990 --> 09:03:39,990
because the landlord didn't
share the information.

7577
09:03:39,990 --> 09:03:41,100
- Well, that's correct.

7578
09:03:41,100 --> 09:03:44,340
So let me give you an
overview of, you know,

7579
09:03:44,340 --> 09:03:46,410
making this whole situation happen.

7580
09:03:46,410 --> 09:03:49,140
First of all, the very
first thing was these lands

7581
09:03:49,140 --> 09:03:52,320
coming into the urban
area, 2022, the region.

7582
09:03:52,320 --> 09:03:55,140
I mean these lands are brought
in for urban development.

7583
09:03:55,140 --> 09:03:57,930
That should have been sort
of like the first signal

7584
09:03:57,930 --> 09:04:00,780
that something's going to
happen or change is on the way.

7585
09:04:01,620 --> 09:04:04,950
As far as we're concerned city wise,

7586
09:04:04,950 --> 09:04:07,290
when this was initiated,
every property owner.

7587
09:04:07,290 --> 09:04:10,027
I sent letter to every
property owner saying,

7588
09:04:10,027 --> 09:04:11,850
"Listen, we're going to
start a secondary plan.

7589
09:04:11,850 --> 09:04:12,733
Give me all your contact information

7590
09:04:12,733 --> 09:04:15,930
so that if I need to
reach you, I can." Okay?

7591
09:04:15,930 --> 09:04:17,880
So I had established all of that.

7592
09:04:17,880 --> 09:04:21,660
I had all the landowners,
except one didn't want to sign,

7593
09:04:21,660 --> 09:04:24,240
but I had all the landowners
sign an access agreement

7594
09:04:24,240 --> 09:04:26,730
so that the consultants could go on site

7595
09:04:26,730 --> 09:04:28,140
to do their study work.

7596
09:04:28,140 --> 09:04:29,910
So, you know, that was happening.

7597
09:04:29,910 --> 09:04:31,760
And every time they went on the site,

7598
09:04:32,700 --> 09:04:35,587
I would send emails to
all the owners saying,

7599
09:04:35,587 --> 09:04:37,110
"Listen, we have consultants.

7600
09:04:37,110 --> 09:04:39,120
They're going to be out on the site.

7601
09:04:39,120 --> 09:04:42,120
Can you please let anybody
who's renting or, you know,

7602
09:04:42,120 --> 09:04:44,220
is using the land know that
there's going to be people

7603
09:04:44,220 --> 09:04:47,910
on the property?" I can't
speak for, you know,

7604
09:04:47,910 --> 09:04:49,950
the owners getting that email.

7605
09:04:49,950 --> 09:04:53,520
I can't, you know, say, "Hey,
did you tell everybody?"

7606
09:04:53,520 --> 09:04:55,410
I just sent them the email.

7607
09:04:55,410 --> 09:04:57,660
But certainly all of the
public information meetings

7608
09:04:57,660 --> 09:04:59,550
were in the paper, they were on Facebook.

7609
09:04:59,550 --> 09:05:03,570
They were broadcast you
know, with all our sources.

7610
09:05:03,570 --> 09:05:06,810
Like that stuff there we had
in the paper, on the websites.

7611
09:05:06,810 --> 09:05:10,380
We've gone beyond with
a notice. Well beyond.

7612
09:05:10,380 --> 09:05:12,870
And then but you know,

7613
09:05:12,870 --> 09:05:15,300
our consultant teams were
on the site plenty of times

7614
09:05:15,300 --> 09:05:18,150
and I would have contacted
and asked that they be done.

7615
09:05:18,150 --> 09:05:20,370
I can show you emails
because I have the emails.

7616
09:05:20,370 --> 09:05:24,720
So in that respect, the you know,

7617
09:05:24,720 --> 09:05:27,510
the circulated notice for
the statutory portion,

7618
09:05:27,510 --> 09:05:31,050
so the open house, you know all
of the owners got the letter

7619
09:05:31,050 --> 09:05:32,070
that we're having the open house

7620
09:05:32,070 --> 09:05:35,040
and the notice on the open house

7621
09:05:35,040 --> 09:05:38,490
and that statutory meeting
would be happening.

7622
09:05:38,490 --> 09:05:40,800
And 120 meters were circulated as well,

7623
09:05:40,800 --> 09:05:42,000
but these people are landowners.

7624
09:05:42,000 --> 09:05:45,060
So I've had notices
going to the ownership.

7625
09:05:45,060 --> 09:05:48,390
I can't let you know why, you know,

7626
09:05:48,390 --> 09:05:50,163
the owners here were not.

7627
09:05:50,163 --> 09:05:52,140
- Yeah. Oh, no. I don't
think anyone's faulting you.

7628
09:05:52,140 --> 09:05:54,000
We need to get to the bottom of this

7629
09:05:54,000 --> 09:05:56,280
and find out why it wasn't
disseminated amongst

7630
09:05:56,280 --> 09:05:58,585
all the residents there.

7631
09:05:58,585 --> 09:05:59,490
So we'll get to the.

7632
09:05:59,490 --> 09:06:03,450
So, but you notified the owner
and it's incumbent upon them

7633
09:06:03,450 --> 09:06:04,860
to share with the rest of the people.

7634
09:06:04,860 --> 09:06:05,813
- Asked to share with any tenants.

7635
09:06:05,813 --> 09:06:08,250
- Yeah, they must. Yeah, exactly.

7636
09:06:08,250 --> 09:06:10,470
- So nevertheless, that's the situation,

7637
09:06:10,470 --> 09:06:12,570
but I just would also like
to know that, you know,

7638
09:06:12,570 --> 09:06:14,220
that some of the things that are occurring

7639
09:06:14,220 --> 09:06:16,020
or some of the things you might hear

7640
09:06:16,020 --> 09:06:18,900
really are not in the city's purview.

7641
09:06:18,900 --> 09:06:23,040
There are tenants, landlord issues

7642
09:06:23,040 --> 09:06:26,220
that are Residential
Tenancy Act or civil matters

7643
09:06:26,220 --> 09:06:29,580
that we shouldn't maybe be delving into.

7644
09:06:29,580 --> 09:06:32,190
So I just want to make
sure that that's clear,

7645
09:06:32,190 --> 09:06:33,180
that, you know.

7646
09:06:33,180 --> 09:06:34,470
- No, I appreciate that.

7647
09:06:34,470 --> 09:06:36,930
Just the fact that they're
residents of the city, right?

7648
09:06:36,930 --> 09:06:38,280
We need to take care of them.

7649
09:06:38,280 --> 09:06:40,140
Appreciate that. Thank you, Mr. Millar.

7650
09:06:40,140 --> 09:06:42,210
Is there anyone else here
other than the applicant

7651
09:06:42,210 --> 09:06:45,843
who wishes to address
council on this matter?

7652
09:06:47,370 --> 09:06:50,400
Okay. Look. Oh, okay. So we're
ready to move forward now.

7653
09:06:50,400 --> 09:06:53,160
Council will now hear from the applicant

7654
09:06:53,160 --> 09:06:54,610
or his or her representative.

7655
09:07:01,500 --> 09:07:03,870
- Mr. Mayor, before we start the clock,

7656
09:07:03,870 --> 09:07:08,370
if we can just get Schedule
A-8 in the clean by-law

7657
09:07:08,370 --> 09:07:10,170
I sent on Friday on the screen,

7658
09:07:10,170 --> 09:07:11,920
I'll be referring to that schedule.

7659
09:07:17,370 --> 09:07:18,203
- [Jim] Whoops.

7660
09:07:28,775 --> 09:07:33,775
- It was by-law 2026-078,
that one, not the 791.

7661
09:07:34,505 --> 09:07:35,580
- [Council Member] 078, yeah.

7662
09:07:35,580 --> 09:07:37,430
- I believe it was 78, the clean one.

7663
09:07:40,230 --> 09:07:41,560
Yeah, I don't think.

7664
09:07:41,560 --> 09:07:42,840
I don't know if that's the one I sent you.

7665
09:07:42,840 --> 09:07:45,322
If you go to. Is that the clean one?

7666
09:07:45,322 --> 09:07:47,187
- [Council member] This is 078.

7667
09:07:47,187 --> 09:07:49,200
- Is it the clean one I sent
on Friday or is this the one.

7668
09:07:49,200 --> 09:07:52,400
Okay, perfect. Yeah, if you
can go to schedule A8, please.

7669
09:08:04,751 --> 09:08:07,584
- [Assistant] Looks terrible, hey?

7670
09:08:17,594 --> 09:08:19,860
- You're getting close. Yeah. Keep going.

7671
09:08:19,860 --> 09:08:21,300
- [Assistant] That's four.

7672
09:08:21,300 --> 09:08:24,123
- That's the one right
there. Okay. Thank you.

7673
09:08:25,680 --> 09:08:27,120
Mr. Mayor, members of council,

7674
09:08:27,120 --> 09:08:29,790
again, I'm a partner at the
law firm Sullivan Mahoney LLP,

7675
09:08:29,790 --> 09:08:31,920
Rocky Vacca, appearing on behalf

7676
09:08:31,920 --> 09:08:33,960
of MVORA Developments, Inc.

7677
09:08:33,960 --> 09:08:35,823
And its principal, Mark Basciano.

7678
09:08:37,350 --> 09:08:40,350
So posted on the agenda
is a clean revised copy

7679
09:08:40,350 --> 09:08:44,233
of by-laws 2026-078 and by-laws 2026-079,

7680
09:08:45,600 --> 09:08:48,300
which we sent through
on Friday, I believe.

7681
09:08:48,300 --> 09:08:51,360
Which I will be asking that
you approve this evening.

7682
09:08:51,360 --> 09:08:54,540
Also posted on the agenda
is a letter from Club Italia

7683
09:08:54,540 --> 09:08:57,450
which supports MVORA's position

7684
09:08:57,450 --> 09:09:01,560
and approves of the revised
by-laws for passage by council.

7685
09:09:01,560 --> 09:09:03,360
From the perspective of my client,

7686
09:09:03,360 --> 09:09:06,570
and I believe also from the
perspective of Club Italia,

7687
09:09:06,570 --> 09:09:10,050
since they approved the revised by-laws

7688
09:09:10,050 --> 09:09:11,580
that were sent through.

7689
09:09:11,580 --> 09:09:15,270
It is imperative that these
by-laws get passed this evening,

7690
09:09:15,270 --> 09:09:17,460
given the continued cost of any delays

7691
09:09:17,460 --> 09:09:20,943
to both of my client and Club Italia.

7692
09:09:22,487 --> 09:09:25,500
MVORA is the largest landowner
within the plan area,

7693
09:09:25,500 --> 09:09:28,740
and together with Club Italia
own the majority of the lands

7694
09:09:28,740 --> 09:09:30,420
within the plan area.

7695
09:09:30,420 --> 09:09:33,090
The only outstanding issues
with the plan and by-laws

7696
09:09:33,090 --> 09:09:34,920
relate to the location

7697
09:09:34,920 --> 09:09:38,220
and size of the proposed
park within the plan,

7698
09:09:38,220 --> 09:09:41,730
the location of the future
school site within the plan,

7699
09:09:41,730 --> 09:09:44,910
and the inclusion of townhouses
in the proposed by-laws

7700
09:09:44,910 --> 09:09:47,790
within the medium and
low density designations.

7701
09:09:47,790 --> 09:09:51,060
The inclusion of townhouses
is a permitted use,

7702
09:09:51,060 --> 09:09:53,730
speaks for itself and is quite
common throughout the city

7703
09:09:53,730 --> 09:09:55,023
and other subdivisions.

7704
09:09:56,460 --> 09:10:00,030
Now looking at Schedule
A-8 that we provided,

7705
09:10:00,030 --> 09:10:03,723
if you look at the
location of the park CP.

7706
09:10:05,130 --> 09:10:08,010
So in what staff has provided.

7707
09:10:08,010 --> 09:10:11,790
Staff wants the park to front
on two roads for visibility

7708
09:10:11,790 --> 09:10:13,293
and for on-street parking.

7709
09:10:14,250 --> 09:10:15,083
We disagree.

7710
09:10:17,580 --> 09:10:20,400
The park and the location
proposed by staff,

7711
09:10:20,400 --> 09:10:23,730
eliminates 500 feet of
developable frontage

7712
09:10:23,730 --> 09:10:28,730
and construction of 15 homes
and will cost the city 555,000

7713
09:10:29,700 --> 09:10:32,700
in development charges
and annual property taxes

7714
09:10:32,700 --> 09:10:34,083
of $100,000.

7715
09:10:35,430 --> 09:10:37,050
We also disagree with staff

7716
09:10:37,050 --> 09:10:39,960
as there is more than
enough space within the park

7717
09:10:39,960 --> 09:10:43,650
to develop a parking lot,
even within a five-acre-park,

7718
09:10:43,650 --> 09:10:45,300
as we are suggesting.

7719
09:10:45,300 --> 09:10:48,903
This is safer than having
the parks along the streets.

7720
09:10:51,060 --> 09:10:54,210
Finally, we disagree with staff
as there is ample visibility

7721
09:10:54,210 --> 09:10:57,330
from the more than 550 feet of frontage

7722
09:10:57,330 --> 09:11:00,630
on the one street in addition
to the low density uses

7723
09:11:00,630 --> 09:11:02,310
surrounding the park.

7724
09:11:02,310 --> 09:11:04,770
The park, as we've shown on schedule A8,

7725
09:11:04,770 --> 09:11:07,740
is where we are requesting
the park to be located

7726
09:11:07,740 --> 09:11:09,750
for the reasons I've just given.

7727
09:11:09,750 --> 09:11:11,610
Now, dealing with the size of the park,

7728
09:11:11,610 --> 09:11:13,803
staff wants a 10 acre park.

7729
09:11:14,760 --> 09:11:18,270
There is currently no
park within a subdivision

7730
09:11:18,270 --> 09:11:21,690
that is 10 acres in the
City of Niagara Falls.

7731
09:11:21,690 --> 09:11:24,030
Parks and subdivisions that already exist

7732
09:11:24,030 --> 09:11:28,170
in this area of the city
include Deerfield, five acres.

7733
09:11:28,170 --> 09:11:32,010
Robert F. Keighan, 2.3
acres, Mulhern, four acres,

7734
09:11:32,010 --> 09:11:34,200
Alpine, three acres, Valor, three acres,

7735
09:11:34,200 --> 09:11:37,110
Mount Forest, two acres,
Preakness, six acres.

7736
09:11:37,110 --> 09:11:38,640
And the only one that comes close

7737
09:11:38,640 --> 09:11:40,653
is Mount Carmel at nine acres.

7738
09:11:41,520 --> 09:11:44,550
Staff's justification for
a 10 acre park as set out

7739
09:11:44,550 --> 09:11:47,100
in the matrix and staff's report

7740
09:11:47,100 --> 09:11:49,950
is because the Niagara
Escarpment Commission

7741
09:11:49,950 --> 09:11:53,190
is not as permissive with
introducing facilities

7742
09:11:53,190 --> 09:11:57,420
that otherwise would be found
in the planned park space.

7743
09:11:57,420 --> 09:12:00,360
No description is given
as to what is proposed

7744
09:12:00,360 --> 09:12:02,373
in the planned parks space.

7745
09:12:03,330 --> 09:12:06,090
In any event, as many of you may be aware,

7746
09:12:06,090 --> 09:12:07,440
I just happen to be chair

7747
09:12:07,440 --> 09:12:09,290
of the Niagara Escarpment Commission.

7748
09:12:10,620 --> 09:12:12,600
I very much disagree with the assertion

7749
09:12:12,600 --> 09:12:14,670
that the NEC is not permissive

7750
09:12:14,670 --> 09:12:18,303
when it comes to park uses
within the escarpment plan area.

7751
09:12:19,140 --> 09:12:23,490
Section 1.5.3, sub 13 of
the Niagara Escarpment Plan,

7752
09:12:23,490 --> 09:12:27,180
expressly states that uses
in the parks and open space

7753
09:12:27,180 --> 09:12:28,980
within the escarpment are permitted.

7754
09:12:29,850 --> 09:12:32,160
One example is Olympic Park in Dundas,

7755
09:12:32,160 --> 09:12:35,550
which has recreational
facilities such as sports fields,

7756
09:12:35,550 --> 09:12:37,830
a community centre, and other amenities,

7757
09:12:37,830 --> 09:12:39,693
which were all approved by the NEC.

7758
09:12:41,520 --> 09:12:44,940
Mayor Diodati and Eric Nichol
can both confirm that the NEC

7759
09:12:44,940 --> 09:12:48,240
has been nothing but
permissive and cooperative

7760
09:12:48,240 --> 09:12:50,250
in allowing works in Fireman's Park

7761
09:12:50,250 --> 09:12:53,580
currently underway,
including cement abutments,

7762
09:12:53,580 --> 09:12:57,690
floating docks, a pavilion,
and other improvements.

7763
09:12:57,690 --> 09:13:01,830
Our position is that a
five-acre-park is more than enough

7764
09:13:01,830 --> 09:13:05,430
and that the city can now
proceed to collect cash in lieu

7765
09:13:05,430 --> 09:13:07,380
for the remaining five acres

7766
09:13:07,380 --> 09:13:10,440
and apply that money to
the millions of dollars

7767
09:13:10,440 --> 09:13:13,110
in improvements you have
planned at Fireman's Park

7768
09:13:13,110 --> 09:13:14,850
and at the former landfill site,

7769
09:13:14,850 --> 09:13:17,940
both a very short walk
from this plan area.

7770
09:13:17,940 --> 09:13:20,250
Finally, location of the school.

7771
09:13:20,250 --> 09:13:24,060
Staff's matrix references
the requirements of the DSBN

7772
09:13:24,060 --> 09:13:27,090
and justifying locating
the school in the middle

7773
09:13:27,090 --> 09:13:30,783
of the subdivision and at
collector road intersections.

7774
09:13:32,010 --> 09:13:35,610
We're suggesting that the
school front on Montrose Road

7775
09:13:35,610 --> 09:13:37,800
next to the Redeemer Bible Church,

7776
09:13:37,800 --> 09:13:39,783
as you'll see on Schedule A-8.

7777
09:13:40,710 --> 09:13:42,930
Putting it in the middle
of the subdivision results

7778
09:13:42,930 --> 09:13:44,700
in buses and hundreds of cars

7779
09:13:44,700 --> 09:13:46,590
traveling through the subdivision

7780
09:13:46,590 --> 09:13:49,173
during busy drop off and pickup times.

7781
09:13:50,100 --> 09:13:52,950
We are proposing that the
school front onto Montrose Road,

7782
09:13:52,950 --> 09:13:55,590
which is an arterial road at the corner

7783
09:13:55,590 --> 09:13:58,830
of one of the collector
roads into the subdivision.

7784
09:13:58,830 --> 09:14:02,820
We happen to speak to the
DSBN on Friday and yesterday,

7785
09:14:02,820 --> 09:14:04,830
and they have confirmed the following,

7786
09:14:04,830 --> 09:14:08,010
that they are flexible
regarding the ultimate location

7787
09:14:08,010 --> 09:14:09,780
and size of the school site

7788
09:14:09,780 --> 09:14:12,810
and will be actively engaged
throughout the draft plan

7789
09:14:12,810 --> 09:14:16,563
of subdivision stage to
select their future location.

7790
09:14:17,764 --> 09:14:20,160
In other words, the DSBN does not object

7791
09:14:20,160 --> 09:14:22,920
to our proposed location
for the school site

7792
09:14:22,920 --> 09:14:26,460
as shown on Schedule A-8 at this time.

7793
09:14:26,460 --> 09:14:29,100
We believe the location
fronting onto Montrose Road

7794
09:14:29,100 --> 09:14:31,440
meets the desired criteria of DSBN

7795
09:14:31,440 --> 09:14:33,540
and is consistent with other schools

7796
09:14:33,540 --> 09:14:36,600
that have recently been
developed along arterial roads

7797
09:14:36,600 --> 09:14:40,200
such as McLeod Road, Kalar
Road, and Niagara Street

7798
09:14:40,200 --> 09:14:44,100
in Welland at the former fairground site.

7799
09:14:44,100 --> 09:14:46,650
Finally, locating the school as we propose

7800
09:14:46,650 --> 09:14:50,160
fairly allocates community
uses between landowners,

7801
09:14:50,160 --> 09:14:53,190
which if you accept staff's recommendation

7802
09:14:53,190 --> 09:14:56,400
would result in Club Italia and my client

7803
09:14:56,400 --> 09:15:00,540
having virtually all the
community uses within their lands

7804
09:15:00,540 --> 09:15:04,020
while the other landowners
in the plan do not.

7805
09:15:04,020 --> 09:15:06,120
Quite frankly, that's unfair.

7806
09:15:06,120 --> 09:15:09,250
Everyone should carry
some burden in providing

7807
09:15:10,290 --> 09:15:13,623
community uses within their
lands in a secondary plan.

7808
09:15:14,640 --> 09:15:18,060
In conclusion, we are
requesting that council approve

7809
09:15:18,060 --> 09:15:20,427
by-law 2026-078 and
by-law 2026-079 as revised

7810
09:15:25,620 --> 09:15:27,570
and as I have provided to council

7811
09:15:27,570 --> 09:15:29,553
in a clean format on Friday.

7812
09:15:30,600 --> 09:15:33,720
Mr. Mayor, I'm also
suggesting if it's possible,

7813
09:15:33,720 --> 09:15:37,050
I think just about everyone
left in the room is here

7814
09:15:37,050 --> 09:15:40,860
for the secondary plan, except
maybe two or three people.

7815
09:15:40,860 --> 09:15:43,560
I'm suggesting if it's
possible to move up and lift

7816
09:15:43,560 --> 09:15:47,010
these by-laws from agenda item number 18

7817
09:15:47,010 --> 09:15:50,460
so that my client and the
representatives of Club Italia

7818
09:15:50,460 --> 09:15:53,250
and those others in the
room do not have to wait

7819
09:15:53,250 --> 09:15:55,890
until the end of the meeting for approval

7820
09:15:55,890 --> 09:15:57,450
of the revised by-laws.

7821
09:15:57,450 --> 09:15:59,010
- This is the end of the meeting.

7822
09:15:59,010 --> 09:16:01,080
- Oh yep, you're done. Perfect.

7823
09:16:01,080 --> 09:16:02,700
- We're going straight
to by-laws from here.

7824
09:16:02,700 --> 09:16:05,140
- Excellent. Okay. I
retract the request then.

7825
09:16:05,140 --> 09:16:06,642
- Okay.
- I'd be happy to answer-

7826
09:16:06,642 --> 09:16:08,763
- Is that your thunder,
according to Ms. Gilberti?

7827
09:16:08,763 --> 09:16:10,840
What we just heard? Was that your thunder?

7828
09:16:10,840 --> 09:16:11,673
- I guess that's it.

7829
09:16:11,673 --> 09:16:13,713
That's all I got. I'd be
happy to answer any questions.

7830
09:16:14,966 --> 09:16:16,991
- We got to get your picture.

7831
09:16:16,991 --> 09:16:18,991
All right. One last one.

7832
09:16:22,314 --> 09:16:23,370
- [Council Member] Sorry, I'm nervous.

7833
09:16:23,370 --> 09:16:24,870
- You're nervous. I'm nervous.

7834
09:16:26,250 --> 09:16:27,893
- [Council Member] I'm
in front of royalty.

7835
09:16:31,680 --> 09:16:32,917
Did you want to do a selfie?

7836
09:16:32,917 --> 09:16:36,265
- No, not this time. I'm good. I'm good.

7837
09:16:36,265 --> 09:16:38,010
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

7838
09:16:38,010 --> 09:16:40,620
- Okay, thank you, before
you run away, Mr. Vacca.

7839
09:16:40,620 --> 09:16:43,200
Do we have some questions for Mr. Vacca?

7840
09:16:43,200 --> 09:16:45,450
To start we got Councillor Nieuwesteeg,

7841
09:16:45,450 --> 09:16:47,313
and then Councillor Strange.

7842
09:16:48,480 --> 09:16:49,313
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

7843
09:16:49,313 --> 09:16:51,120
And I'm not quite sure
if it's to Mr. Vacca,

7844
09:16:51,120 --> 09:16:53,910
but I want to pick up on your park.

7845
09:16:53,910 --> 09:16:58,110
So you're having it five acres.

7846
09:16:58,110 --> 09:16:59,640
I'm going back a couple months ago.

7847
09:16:59,640 --> 09:17:03,450
The council toured, I call
it the Mini Central Park,

7848
09:17:03,450 --> 09:17:05,100
the Firemen's Park over to Mewburn.

7849
09:17:05,100 --> 09:17:07,350
And when we were standing up there,

7850
09:17:07,350 --> 09:17:08,670
Actually, I was looking at the Regency.

7851
09:17:08,670 --> 09:17:09,780
I thought, oh my goodness,

7852
09:17:09,780 --> 09:17:10,920
because we were talking about fields.

7853
09:17:10,920 --> 09:17:14,580
I thought, what a great
location, how the view was,

7854
09:17:14,580 --> 09:17:16,140
you could see this connection.

7855
09:17:16,140 --> 09:17:17,580
We were talking about as councillors,

7856
09:17:17,580 --> 09:17:20,580
like that whole area can
connect so well there.

7857
09:17:20,580 --> 09:17:22,500
However, we don't have that connection.

7858
09:17:22,500 --> 09:17:26,310
So perhaps I don't know,
maybe it's back to Ms. Dolch.

7859
09:17:26,310 --> 09:17:31,140
Could we look at taking
money in lieu of parkland

7860
09:17:31,140 --> 09:17:34,645
and figuring out how to
connect that whole area?

7861
09:17:34,645 --> 09:17:36,060
I know we're dealing with
secondary plan over here

7862
09:17:36,060 --> 09:17:39,240
right now, but, and bring
them over to that area

7863
09:17:39,240 --> 09:17:42,270
because if we have a mini
central park in proximity

7864
09:17:42,270 --> 09:17:45,180
to this whole area, instead
of putting all that money

7865
09:17:45,180 --> 09:17:50,180
into that park area, use
that money to connect people

7866
09:17:50,790 --> 09:17:53,880
over to this other area.

7867
09:17:53,880 --> 09:17:54,960
Just as a suggestion.

7868
09:17:54,960 --> 09:17:56,190
- [Jim] Ms. Dolch?

7869
09:17:56,190 --> 09:17:59,130
- Thank you, Your Worship,
through you to the Councillor.

7870
09:17:59,130 --> 09:18:02,040
And I will have Mr.
Millar stand up as well.

7871
09:18:02,040 --> 09:18:05,610
The parkland that's
proposed here was required

7872
09:18:05,610 --> 09:18:07,500
through the master plan that was done.

7873
09:18:07,500 --> 09:18:11,370
So it requires, a municipal
works did the master planning

7874
09:18:11,370 --> 09:18:14,040
and advised that they
needed a four-hectare park

7875
09:18:14,040 --> 09:18:15,510
in this area.

7876
09:18:15,510 --> 09:18:17,370
This was even before the settlement area

7877
09:18:17,370 --> 09:18:18,770
boundary expansion occurred.

7878
09:18:18,770 --> 09:18:21,570
So they were looking for a
park to serve the neighborhood

7879
09:18:21,570 --> 09:18:25,290
to the south in this area and
they needed a community park.

7880
09:18:25,290 --> 09:18:30,270
So to relocate it to a different location

7881
09:18:30,270 --> 09:18:33,060
I would be concerned with at this point.

7882
09:18:33,060 --> 09:18:36,090
Especially without further consultation

7883
09:18:36,090 --> 09:18:38,940
with municipal works
because they did advise us

7884
09:18:38,940 --> 09:18:41,970
that they wanted the four-hectare
park in this location.

7885
09:18:41,970 --> 09:18:44,130
I don't know if Mr. Millar
wants to add anything else

7886
09:18:44,130 --> 09:18:46,980
'cause he's been constant
contact with them on this.

7887
09:18:46,980 --> 09:18:50,133
- What would be the rationale
for a four-hectare park?

7888
09:18:52,320 --> 09:18:54,390
- Through the mayor to the Councillor.

7889
09:18:54,390 --> 09:18:59,390
So what would be the
reason is that as Ms. Dolch

7890
09:18:59,460 --> 09:19:02,550
was alluding to there,
even prior to these lands

7891
09:19:02,550 --> 09:19:04,500
having been added to
the urban area boundary,

7892
09:19:04,500 --> 09:19:09,500
so before 2022, 2021,
the parks plan was saying

7893
09:19:10,440 --> 09:19:13,639
that the Northwest
needed a community park.

7894
09:19:13,639 --> 09:19:14,880
And a community park is a larger park.

7895
09:19:14,880 --> 09:19:17,220
It's not a neighborhood
park like the, you know,

7896
09:19:17,220 --> 09:19:21,270
the five acre ones that you,
Mr. Vacca was referring to.

7897
09:19:21,270 --> 09:19:22,830
A community park of a larger scale

7898
09:19:22,830 --> 09:19:23,910
that would have facilities.

7899
09:19:23,910 --> 09:19:25,080
So you'd have the ball diamond.

7900
09:19:25,080 --> 09:19:28,110
You might have the splash
pad, the playground,

7901
09:19:28,110 --> 09:19:30,960
those types of things,
not just an open field.

7902
09:19:30,960 --> 09:19:33,690
And yes, it would have
a parking lot as well.

7903
09:19:33,690 --> 09:19:37,500
But you could make use of the
on-street parking for events.

7904
09:19:37,500 --> 09:19:39,510
So if you had a, you know, soccer weekend

7905
09:19:39,510 --> 09:19:40,587
or something like that happening

7906
09:19:40,587 --> 09:19:42,720
and the parking lot was full,

7907
09:19:42,720 --> 09:19:44,790
you had the room on the curbside.

7908
09:19:44,790 --> 09:19:48,240
But it also doing that
puts the boulevard space

7909
09:19:48,240 --> 09:19:49,920
so you still have the
active transportation.

7910
09:19:49,920 --> 09:19:52,440
So having these benefits
of the community uses

7911
09:19:52,440 --> 09:19:55,020
on the arterial roads is
really actually quite good.

7912
09:19:55,020 --> 09:19:57,930
But as getting back to that question,

7913
09:19:57,930 --> 09:20:01,770
the need for the park
was established in 2021

7914
09:20:01,770 --> 09:20:03,600
for that community.

7915
09:20:03,600 --> 09:20:05,610
And then we've got this
urban area coming in

7916
09:20:05,610 --> 09:20:07,153
and we're putting 6,000 more people,

7917
09:20:07,153 --> 09:20:11,640
7,000 more people to that area
that to me would underscore.

7918
09:20:11,640 --> 09:20:13,110
Yeah, we're definitely
going to need it now

7919
09:20:13,110 --> 09:20:15,330
because you got six or
7,000 more people on a spot.

7920
09:20:15,330 --> 09:20:17,820
They were already calling for one, so.

7921
09:20:17,820 --> 09:20:20,250
And I think that if you were to speak

7922
09:20:20,250 --> 09:20:23,220
with the municipal
staff, parks department,

7923
09:20:23,220 --> 09:20:25,410
they do not view the
east side of the highway

7924
09:20:25,410 --> 09:20:26,940
the same as the west side of the highway.

7925
09:20:26,940 --> 09:20:28,230
They feel the west side of the highway

7926
09:20:28,230 --> 09:20:30,060
is needing its own community park.

7927
09:20:30,060 --> 09:20:31,560
So that's-

7928
09:20:31,560 --> 09:20:34,844
- And to you, Mr. Millar, back
in 2021, we didn't have this,

7929
09:20:34,844 --> 09:20:35,790
I call it the mini central park.

7930
09:20:35,790 --> 09:20:38,674
Like it is absolutely phenomenal up there.

7931
09:20:38,674 --> 09:20:41,070
And to be able to put
our resources in there

7932
09:20:41,070 --> 09:20:43,950
and make that one spectacular park,

7933
09:20:43,950 --> 09:20:46,380
it was just amazing to see
what we could have there.

7934
09:20:46,380 --> 09:20:48,060
We could have everything you've said

7935
09:20:48,060 --> 09:20:51,030
and more just investing in one thing

7936
09:20:51,030 --> 09:20:54,600
as opposed to money spread over
and then we run out of money

7937
09:20:54,600 --> 09:20:58,080
and don't have money to put
it into something like that.

7938
09:20:58,080 --> 09:21:01,020
I'm just thinking because timing
it like from 2021 till now

7939
09:21:01,020 --> 09:21:03,990
when we have this other massive piece

7940
09:21:03,990 --> 09:21:06,090
maybe there should be other consideration

7941
09:21:06,090 --> 09:21:08,124
and then a connection to that.

7942
09:21:08,124 --> 09:21:10,590
So there's more and more
people could actually enjoy it.

7943
09:21:10,590 --> 09:21:12,810
- One of the things I had thought about,

7944
09:21:12,810 --> 09:21:15,030
was hopefully one day in the
future we can run a trail

7945
09:21:15,030 --> 09:21:18,060
up to the Bruce and get
across the bridge there

7946
09:21:18,060 --> 09:21:20,070
as an alternate to get into-

7947
09:21:20,070 --> 09:21:22,121
- Yeah, that would be great.

7948
09:21:22,121 --> 09:21:26,490
But it's not in my purview, so.

7949
09:21:26,490 --> 09:21:28,860
- Thank you.

7950
09:21:28,860 --> 09:21:30,360
- Our GM of planning is going,

7951
09:21:31,205 --> 09:21:33,651
our acting CAO is going to speak up.

7952
09:21:33,651 --> 09:21:35,474
- Yeah. I was going to say
no, I don't want that job.

7953
09:21:35,474 --> 09:21:37,583
(council members chuckle)

7954
09:21:37,583 --> 09:21:40,320
No, just one other thing I wanted to add.

7955
09:21:40,320 --> 09:21:42,570
Obviously if the park is reduced in size,

7956
09:21:42,570 --> 09:21:45,210
I don't know if I would
absolutely move the park.

7957
09:21:45,210 --> 09:21:47,280
There's still obviously
neighborhood children

7958
09:21:47,280 --> 09:21:49,140
trying to walk to parks
and things like that

7959
09:21:49,140 --> 09:21:52,217
rather than we don't want
children crossing highways

7960
09:21:52,217 --> 09:21:54,300
to get to Fireman's Park.

7961
09:21:54,300 --> 09:21:56,520
But you are going to reduce
the size of the park,

7962
09:21:56,520 --> 09:21:59,010
I would suggest at least
have some level of park

7963
09:21:59,010 --> 09:22:00,930
in this neighborhood on
this side of the road

7964
09:22:00,930 --> 09:22:04,410
because right now they
have to cross the street

7965
09:22:04,410 --> 09:22:05,613
at this point, so.

7966
09:22:07,860 --> 09:22:09,840
- Councillor Nieuwesteeg,
if I can just address

7967
09:22:09,840 --> 09:22:11,163
some of your comments.

7968
09:22:12,334 --> 09:22:13,890
We're not saying don't have a park.

7969
09:22:13,890 --> 09:22:17,130
We're saying five acres
is a very large park

7970
09:22:17,130 --> 09:22:20,490
by any equation, especially
when you have Fireman's Park

7971
09:22:20,490 --> 09:22:21,930
within walking distance.

7972
09:22:21,930 --> 09:22:23,370
And if you run like Mike Strange,

7973
09:22:23,370 --> 09:22:24,770
you're there in two minutes.

7974
09:22:25,740 --> 09:22:27,420
But with all due respect,

7975
09:22:27,420 --> 09:22:29,370
and I was part of a group 20 years ago

7976
09:22:29,370 --> 09:22:33,900
that looked at your lands on
Mewburn next to the landfill.

7977
09:22:33,900 --> 09:22:36,360
And there was a whole master plan designed

7978
09:22:36,360 --> 09:22:40,020
with ball diamonds, soccer fields.

7979
09:22:40,020 --> 09:22:42,810
I think cricket pitch
wasn't in mind at that time,

7980
09:22:42,810 --> 09:22:45,330
but clearly should be in mind right now.

7981
09:22:45,330 --> 09:22:49,107
There's lots of opportunity
for a central park

7982
09:22:49,107 --> 09:22:52,350
and you already have a central park.

7983
09:22:52,350 --> 09:22:54,930
You have money that you can
get through cash in lieu

7984
09:22:54,930 --> 09:22:56,730
on this development

7985
09:22:56,730 --> 09:22:59,370
and use it to do that at Fireman's Park.

7986
09:22:59,370 --> 09:23:01,980
There's lots of areas of
Fireman's Park you can use,

7987
09:23:01,980 --> 09:23:03,660
or you can use the lands at Mewburn

7988
09:23:03,660 --> 09:23:05,910
to do exactly what we just heard.

7989
09:23:05,910 --> 09:23:08,220
Ball diamonds, soccer
fields, cricket pitch,

7990
09:23:08,220 --> 09:23:10,170
whatever you want to do.

7991
09:23:10,170 --> 09:23:14,220
And these developers will
give you the money to do that.

7992
09:23:14,220 --> 09:23:19,220
Having a ball diamond or
soccer field in a subdivision,

7993
09:23:20,550 --> 09:23:21,780
I don't know how that's going to work,

7994
09:23:21,780 --> 09:23:23,340
to be totally honest with you.

7995
09:23:23,340 --> 09:23:25,530
And I played soccer all my life.

7996
09:23:25,530 --> 09:23:27,480
And I played in some
tournaments in Toronto

7997
09:23:27,480 --> 09:23:29,040
where that occurred.

7998
09:23:29,040 --> 09:23:33,000
Balls were hitting houses.
Balls were going across streets.

7999
09:23:33,000 --> 09:23:35,490
You had cars all around the neighborhood.

8000
09:23:35,490 --> 09:23:37,560
It's not something I like.

8001
09:23:37,560 --> 09:23:39,570
And again, the Niagara
Escarpment Commission

8002
09:23:39,570 --> 09:23:43,320
is very permissive when it
comes to park uses like that.

8003
09:23:43,320 --> 09:23:45,390
Very permissive. So.

8004
09:23:45,390 --> 09:23:46,770
- And when you, through Mr. Mayor,

8005
09:23:46,770 --> 09:23:49,080
when you talk, you reference the only park

8006
09:23:49,080 --> 09:23:51,780
that's closest to that size
would be the Mount Carmel Park.

8007
09:23:51,780 --> 09:23:55,350
I lived there for years
and I know Joe's there.

8008
09:23:55,350 --> 09:23:58,020
How many times did we
see people actually using

8009
09:23:58,020 --> 09:23:59,103
that entire park?

8010
09:24:00,497 --> 09:24:01,980
I saw green space most of the time.

8011
09:24:01,980 --> 09:24:04,440
So I'd rather be able to use money

8012
09:24:04,440 --> 09:24:06,180
that it's really a fulsome

8013
09:24:06,180 --> 09:24:07,740
and that everyone can be enjoying

8014
09:24:07,740 --> 09:24:10,830
than just having green
space called a park.

8015
09:24:10,830 --> 09:24:12,720
- Yeah, and that's the
position we're taking

8016
09:24:12,720 --> 09:24:16,440
and that's what resulted
in the revised Schedule A-8

8017
09:24:16,440 --> 09:24:17,347
in front of you.

8018
09:24:18,240 --> 09:24:19,073
- Thank you.

8019
09:24:20,070 --> 09:24:23,319
- Yes. Okay. All right.
Thank you for that.

8020
09:24:23,319 --> 09:24:24,237
Do we have some other
questions of council.

8021
09:24:24,237 --> 09:24:25,230
Oh, Councillor Strange.

8022
09:24:25,230 --> 09:24:26,670
- I just wanted to make a comment.

8023
09:24:26,670 --> 09:24:29,250
I just totally agree with the presenter

8024
09:24:29,250 --> 09:24:33,060
just because especially
along the main road,

8025
09:24:33,060 --> 09:24:35,130
you want a school, you don't want a school

8026
09:24:35,130 --> 09:24:37,680
in the middle of a subdivision.

8027
09:24:37,680 --> 09:24:41,019
We have that problem with
Princess Margaret, you know,

8028
09:24:41,019 --> 09:24:43,320
and then you see around there
you got St. Vincent De Paul,

8029
09:24:43,320 --> 09:24:46,868
you go in, you go out
along Dorchester Road.

8030
09:24:46,868 --> 09:24:49,018
You know, you have
Orchard Park, Mary Ward.

8031
09:24:49,950 --> 09:24:53,100
You know, you just go
in, it's such an easy,

8032
09:24:53,100 --> 09:24:54,120
you don't want them crammed,

8033
09:24:54,120 --> 09:24:55,860
buses coming in the
middle of an intersection.

8034
09:24:55,860 --> 09:24:56,810
I just want to say.

8035
09:24:58,557 --> 09:25:00,857
- And just one final
comment about the school.

8036
09:25:01,950 --> 09:25:03,600
Actually being in a subdivision,

8037
09:25:03,600 --> 09:25:05,100
we've been talking all night about noise

8038
09:25:05,100 --> 09:25:06,330
and residence noise.

8039
09:25:06,330 --> 09:25:08,550
If it's in the middle of
a subdivision, you know,

8040
09:25:08,550 --> 09:25:09,840
we have school buses going in.

8041
09:25:09,840 --> 09:25:12,810
We've got the recess bell
going and the kids outside.

8042
09:25:12,810 --> 09:25:15,450
So if a neighbor next
door that's on shift work,

8043
09:25:15,450 --> 09:25:18,000
that would be very
disturbing if, you know,

8044
09:25:18,000 --> 09:25:19,770
that bell goes off and
the kids are screaming

8045
09:25:19,770 --> 09:25:20,670
and you're trying to sleep.

8046
09:25:20,670 --> 09:25:23,730
So I think you make a good point

8047
09:25:23,730 --> 09:25:25,983
about having it on a collector road.

8048
09:25:28,740 --> 09:25:30,690
- Yes, Councillor Baldinelli.
- Rocky, sorry.

8049
09:25:30,690 --> 09:25:34,717
Can you please go over
why you don't want park

8050
09:25:35,910 --> 09:25:36,750
in that location?

8051
09:25:36,750 --> 09:25:39,690
- [Rocky] No, we're fine with
the park in that location.

8052
09:25:39,690 --> 09:25:40,523
- Like, I mean at 10 acres.

8053
09:25:40,523 --> 09:25:42,180
- But five acres instead of 10.

8054
09:25:42,180 --> 09:25:45,330
Your staff is requesting 10.

8055
09:25:45,330 --> 09:25:47,340
And what I've shown there is five acres,

8056
09:25:47,340 --> 09:25:51,330
which still abuts the
environmental protection area,

8057
09:25:51,330 --> 09:25:53,880
which as you heard is
important from Dr. Bacher

8058
09:25:53,880 --> 09:25:55,560
and Ms. Grandoni.

8059
09:25:55,560 --> 09:25:59,610
We're just making the park
smaller rather than 10 acres.

8060
09:25:59,610 --> 09:26:03,600
We're saying five acres
because just across the way

8061
09:26:03,600 --> 09:26:05,160
you have Fireman's Park.

8062
09:26:05,160 --> 09:26:08,160
And you have a lot of
plans at Fireman's Park

8063
09:26:08,160 --> 09:26:10,961
that you're currently working on, so.

8064
09:26:10,961 --> 09:26:11,970
- I think it's a
completely different park,

8065
09:26:11,970 --> 09:26:16,970
but is that the old Club
Italia soccer field area?

8066
09:26:17,520 --> 09:26:19,857
- Part of it is MVORA's lands

8067
09:26:19,857 --> 09:26:22,230
and part of it would be Club
Italia's lands, correct.

8068
09:26:22,230 --> 09:26:24,130
- Is Club Italia still going to exist?

8069
09:26:27,446 --> 09:26:28,920
- [Audience Member] Absolutely.

8070
09:26:28,920 --> 09:26:31,770
- I don't think Club
Italia's going anywhere. No.

8071
09:26:31,770 --> 09:26:32,603
- No?
- No.

8072
09:26:32,603 --> 09:26:34,920
- So do they have a pitch still?

8073
09:26:34,920 --> 09:26:36,633
- Will they continue to have a pitch?

8074
09:26:36,633 --> 09:26:39,930
- Yes, yeah, my
understanding is Club Italia

8075
09:26:39,930 --> 09:26:42,783
plans on selling a portion of their lands.

8076
09:26:43,770 --> 09:26:46,200
And that will give them the money

8077
09:26:46,200 --> 09:26:48,120
they need to continue to thrive.

8078
09:26:48,120 --> 09:26:49,740
That's my understanding.

8079
09:26:49,740 --> 09:26:51,310
Being a member who went to a meeting

8080
09:26:51,310 --> 09:26:52,887
where that discussion took place

8081
09:26:52,887 --> 09:26:56,370
and that resolution was passed,
that's my understanding.

8082
09:26:56,370 --> 09:26:57,203
- Thank you.

8083
09:26:58,740 --> 09:27:01,530
- So maybe do me a favor one more time.

8084
09:27:01,530 --> 09:27:05,790
Just summarize the two pieces. The park.

8085
09:27:05,790 --> 09:27:08,100
You're saying going from
10 acre to five acre.

8086
09:27:08,100 --> 09:27:10,830
You're suggesting the extra
money is for extra lots.

8087
09:27:10,830 --> 09:27:14,430
Take the money in lieu
and put it into Firemen's,

8088
09:27:14,430 --> 09:27:16,200
or into that park for amenities.

8089
09:27:16,200 --> 09:27:18,570
And then the school, the rationale,

8090
09:27:18,570 --> 09:27:20,520
explain that again for us.

8091
09:27:20,520 --> 09:27:21,930
The school rationale.

8092
09:27:21,930 --> 09:27:26,280
- So right now on the
plan prepared by staff,

8093
09:27:26,280 --> 09:27:30,300
you have the school site
within the plan of subdivision.

8094
09:27:30,300 --> 09:27:32,133
It's not fronting on Montrose.

8095
09:27:33,150 --> 09:27:36,600
So where you have that road
coming in from Montrose,

8096
09:27:36,600 --> 09:27:39,273
which doesn't appear there, I believe.

8097
09:27:41,010 --> 09:27:41,843
Or it does.

8098
09:27:41,843 --> 09:27:43,230
Yeah, where you have the road coming in,

8099
09:27:43,230 --> 09:27:46,710
it's basically abutting the park area

8100
09:27:46,710 --> 09:27:48,720
is where you have a school right now.

8101
09:27:48,720 --> 09:27:51,210
So it's in the middle of a subdivision.

8102
09:27:51,210 --> 09:27:56,110
And the rationale given
by staff was that DSBN

8103
09:27:57,060 --> 09:28:01,770
wanted it at that location
or to meet certain criteria.

8104
09:28:01,770 --> 09:28:03,150
We've spoken at DSBN.

8105
09:28:03,150 --> 09:28:06,210
They said, "No, we can deal
with the location later."

8106
09:28:06,210 --> 09:28:09,270
And we asked them if they
object to having it on Montrose

8107
09:28:09,270 --> 09:28:11,610
and they said, "We don't
object at this time."

8108
09:28:11,610 --> 09:28:14,280
So they're leaving their options open.

8109
09:28:14,280 --> 09:28:17,040
But they didn't say we object to Montrose,

8110
09:28:17,040 --> 09:28:18,930
and they didn't say we must have it

8111
09:28:18,930 --> 09:28:22,563
in the middle of the subdivision
the way staff put it.

8112
09:28:23,850 --> 09:28:26,259
- So maybe can we just get staff?

8113
09:28:26,259 --> 09:28:30,270
I don't know, if we can
get to our planning staff.

8114
09:28:30,270 --> 09:28:33,120
Yeah, Mr. Millar did you
want to weigh in on this?

8115
09:28:33,120 --> 09:28:35,580
Because council, we're going
to have to make a decision now.

8116
09:28:35,580 --> 09:28:39,570
And was there any strong
planning rationale

8117
09:28:39,570 --> 09:28:43,200
for moving the school
inside of the development

8118
09:28:43,200 --> 09:28:47,370
rather than on the arterial
connection of the development?

8119
09:28:47,370 --> 09:28:48,360
Is there any?

8120
09:28:48,360 --> 09:28:51,150
- Proximity, walkability,
puts it right in the middle.

8121
09:28:51,150 --> 09:28:52,770
Everybody can get out of the same row.

8122
09:28:52,770 --> 09:28:55,120
There's a ton of development
on the Kalar Road.

8123
09:28:56,290 --> 09:28:57,900
There's going to be kids in that school

8124
09:28:57,900 --> 09:29:00,240
or in that medium density area.

8125
09:29:00,240 --> 09:29:02,010
They'll have a much shorter
walk to get to the park

8126
09:29:02,010 --> 09:29:02,843
and the school.

8127
09:29:04,050 --> 09:29:06,900
I talked to the school board
also on Friday and Monday.

8128
09:29:06,900 --> 09:29:08,910
So, you know, I'm getting,

8129
09:29:08,910 --> 09:29:10,230
maybe we're getting mixed signals here,

8130
09:29:10,230 --> 09:29:12,630
but their criteria that they use,

8131
09:29:12,630 --> 09:29:14,220
I was checking a lot of boxes on that

8132
09:29:14,220 --> 09:29:16,470
and my discussions with Michelle
was saying that, you know,

8133
09:29:16,470 --> 09:29:18,870
that it is a good location.

8134
09:29:18,870 --> 09:29:21,360
Collector Road is not a stranger to buses.

8135
09:29:21,360 --> 09:29:23,850
And the bus activity would happen.

8136
09:29:23,850 --> 09:29:26,640
And, you know, yes, buses
and people drop off,

8137
09:29:26,640 --> 09:29:28,577
but it's only for a very short period

8138
09:29:28,577 --> 09:29:30,150
at the end of the day,
like every other community.

8139
09:29:30,150 --> 09:29:32,280
And I think if you looked
at a map of the city,

8140
09:29:32,280 --> 09:29:35,580
you look at the old
traditional neighborhoods,

8141
09:29:35,580 --> 09:29:37,297
you're going to see a bunch of schools

8142
09:29:37,297 --> 09:29:38,400
in the middle of the community.

8143
09:29:38,400 --> 09:29:41,436
Walkability, you know, back
then in the '30's, '40's,

8144
09:29:41,436 --> 09:29:44,700
and '50's when they were
siting these up, it was,

8145
09:29:44,700 --> 09:29:46,590
you didn't find them on the outskirts.

8146
09:29:46,590 --> 09:29:50,460
And those schools that
are being built these days

8147
09:29:50,460 --> 09:29:54,003
are happening under, you
know, a period of time where,

8148
09:29:54,889 --> 09:29:56,217
you know, the draft plans are coming in

8149
09:29:56,217 --> 09:29:58,470
and the school boards would
say, "We need a school."

8150
09:29:58,470 --> 09:30:00,570
And then the development
applications would come in

8151
09:30:00,570 --> 09:30:05,490
with a block out at the arterial
road, that's your block.

8152
09:30:05,490 --> 09:30:08,640
The ministry's taken more
oversight over the school boards.

8153
09:30:08,640 --> 09:30:11,370
And as part of that, they're
also giving the school boards

8154
09:30:11,370 --> 09:30:13,650
more say in safety matters.

8155
09:30:13,650 --> 09:30:16,080
So I think at the end of
the day, yes, you know,

8156
09:30:16,080 --> 09:30:19,200
the school boards hasn't
committed either way to,

8157
09:30:19,200 --> 09:30:21,240
you know, one way or another.

8158
09:30:21,240 --> 09:30:23,757
My view was that centralizing this

8159
09:30:23,757 --> 09:30:25,800
was going to put it closer to kids.

8160
09:30:25,800 --> 09:30:28,320
My view was going to be also helping

8161
09:30:28,320 --> 09:30:31,500
to have that established boulevard

8162
09:30:31,500 --> 09:30:33,630
for active transportation.

8163
09:30:33,630 --> 09:30:35,370
You know, separating the
bike lanes from that,

8164
09:30:35,370 --> 09:30:37,500
but all that curb space, you know,

8165
09:30:37,500 --> 09:30:40,980
for events or whatever,
is going to be beneficial.

8166
09:30:40,980 --> 09:30:45,000
You don't necessarily need you know,

8167
09:30:45,000 --> 09:30:48,180
to have a giant parking lot for, you know,

8168
09:30:48,180 --> 09:30:50,610
neighborhood uses, but
when you have a soccer game

8169
09:30:50,610 --> 09:30:53,700
or whatever, I do think that
there's probably soccer fields

8170
09:30:53,700 --> 09:30:54,717
internal in some of these parks

8171
09:30:54,717 --> 09:30:56,583
and some of these internal areas.

8172
09:30:58,080 --> 09:31:00,033
Otherwise, you know, rationale for that,

8173
09:31:00,033 --> 09:31:01,440
that was my rationale.

8174
09:31:01,440 --> 09:31:03,690
Puts it at the corner,
checks a lot of their boxes,

8175
09:31:03,690 --> 09:31:04,860
makes it closer to everybody

8176
09:31:04,860 --> 09:31:07,210
in particular the higher
densities on the west.

8177
09:31:08,280 --> 09:31:11,970
- Okay, I can tell you, I'm
of two schools of thought

8178
09:31:11,970 --> 09:31:13,890
because I know when I
go down Dorchester Road,

8179
09:31:13,890 --> 09:31:15,000
I pass a bunch of schools

8180
09:31:15,000 --> 09:31:16,830
that are right on major arterial roads.

8181
09:31:16,830 --> 09:31:20,100
And the newest DSBN school
opened up on McLeod Road.

8182
09:31:20,100 --> 09:31:23,400
And so is the NCDSB as
well as on McLeod Road.

8183
09:31:23,400 --> 09:31:25,590
And I know other communities,

8184
09:31:25,590 --> 09:31:26,820
every school I've been a part of,

8185
09:31:26,820 --> 09:31:28,740
lately they've been on arterial roads

8186
09:31:28,740 --> 09:31:30,810
more than they used to
be neighborhood schools,

8187
09:31:30,810 --> 09:31:34,740
but our general manager
of planning wants to talk.

8188
09:31:34,740 --> 09:31:36,150
She's got her head going.

8189
09:31:36,150 --> 09:31:37,498
Yeah. Thank you, Your Worship.

8190
09:31:37,498 --> 09:31:39,330
just quickly, and one of the criteria

8191
09:31:39,330 --> 09:31:42,330
that the DSBN advises of is
that they didn't want to be

8192
09:31:42,330 --> 09:31:44,823
close to a highway,
that's another reason why.

8193
09:31:45,750 --> 09:31:47,670
I do know that a lot
of them, like you said,

8194
09:31:47,670 --> 09:31:48,870
are on Ontario roads.

8195
09:31:48,870 --> 09:31:51,810
I don't know if their mindset's changing.

8196
09:31:51,810 --> 09:31:53,790
I appreciate Mr. Vacca may
have talked to them as well.

8197
09:31:53,790 --> 09:31:57,120
So obviously Mr. Millar talked
to them as well on Friday.

8198
09:31:57,120 --> 09:31:59,520
But I do know they had concerns
being close to the highway.

8199
09:31:59,520 --> 09:32:01,260
That's why that was one of the reasons

8200
09:32:01,260 --> 09:32:04,263
we obviously didn't choose there as well.

8201
09:32:05,250 --> 09:32:08,940
You know, and should council
go down this path of changing,

8202
09:32:08,940 --> 09:32:12,930
I would ask that we take
a five minute recess.

8203
09:32:12,930 --> 09:32:16,290
We do have revised
recommendations we can work on,

8204
09:32:16,290 --> 09:32:19,500
so that depending on what
direction you're heading

8205
09:32:19,500 --> 09:32:22,410
just let us know and we
can work through that.

8206
09:32:22,410 --> 09:32:24,780
Obviously there's other
locations perhaps for the school.

8207
09:32:24,780 --> 09:32:26,430
And one other thing I did want to mention

8208
09:32:26,430 --> 09:32:29,620
is that the school is
actually a permitted use

8209
09:32:30,720 --> 09:32:32,490
in the residential area.

8210
09:32:32,490 --> 09:32:35,100
So even though it's shown schematically,

8211
09:32:35,100 --> 09:32:38,340
that Chris has it there
shown that doesn't mean

8212
09:32:38,340 --> 09:32:40,170
that that's going to be the final location

8213
09:32:40,170 --> 09:32:42,120
or the size or anything.

8214
09:32:42,120 --> 09:32:45,360
It's more of a schematic on, you know,

8215
09:32:45,360 --> 09:32:48,840
where we think good land
use planning should occur.

8216
09:32:48,840 --> 09:32:51,780
- Mr. Mayor, if I can just
make one final comment.

8217
09:32:51,780 --> 09:32:54,117
Yes, I agree with Mr. Millar.

8218
09:32:54,117 --> 09:32:59,117
The DSBN has not committed to
my site or the city's site.

8219
09:33:00,510 --> 09:33:02,583
They say we'll deal with it later. Okay?

8220
09:33:03,556 --> 09:33:04,680
- [Chris] $200 mouse.

8221
09:33:04,680 --> 09:33:06,630
- Sorry. Still works.

8222
09:33:06,630 --> 09:33:07,823
- [Chris] Very expensive.

8223
09:33:09,240 --> 09:33:13,770
- But the point I keep
coming back to Your Worship

8224
09:33:13,770 --> 09:33:15,633
and members of council is, you know,

8225
09:33:16,470 --> 09:33:18,960
there are four landowners
within that property

8226
09:33:18,960 --> 09:33:22,170
bound by Kalar, Montrose,

8227
09:33:22,170 --> 09:33:25,440
and then swinging around
Montrose and the Hydro Corridor.

8228
09:33:25,440 --> 09:33:27,270
There are four owners.

8229
09:33:27,270 --> 09:33:31,200
If you put the park, sorry,
if you put the school

8230
09:33:31,200 --> 09:33:34,953
as proposed by staff in the
middle of the subdivision, okay?

8231
09:33:36,000 --> 09:33:39,540
the brunt of the community
uses go to my client.

8232
09:33:39,540 --> 09:33:42,810
He's going to have the whole
school site on his lands.

8233
09:33:42,810 --> 09:33:46,140
So he can't develop it.
He's got to sell it.

8234
09:33:46,140 --> 09:33:50,160
And a good chunk of the park
is on my client's lands.

8235
09:33:50,160 --> 09:33:53,700
And the other chunk of the
park is on Club Italia's lands.

8236
09:33:53,700 --> 09:33:56,220
The other two landowners
get off scot-free.

8237
09:33:56,220 --> 09:33:58,020
And that's not fair.

8238
09:33:58,020 --> 09:34:00,840
I'm sorry, that's not fair
when there's valid arguments

8239
09:34:00,840 --> 09:34:03,690
for having a school on an arterial road,

8240
09:34:03,690 --> 09:34:05,640
because that's where they normally are.

8241
09:34:05,640 --> 09:34:08,820
And when there's valid
reasons for having a park,

8242
09:34:08,820 --> 09:34:11,430
which should be five acres, not 10 acres.

8243
09:34:11,430 --> 09:34:14,040
And if you go to 10 acres
in that site, again,

8244
09:34:14,040 --> 09:34:17,220
it's Club Italia and
my client that suffer.

8245
09:34:17,220 --> 09:34:18,840
They get all the community uses.

8246
09:34:18,840 --> 09:34:20,970
They lose all the developable acreage

8247
09:34:20,970 --> 09:34:23,820
and only recover what
they sell the land for,

8248
09:34:23,820 --> 09:34:27,150
or dedicate it to the city for parks.

8249
09:34:27,150 --> 09:34:29,433
Sorry, that's not fair
in this circumstance.

8250
09:34:31,530 --> 09:34:35,490
- Okay. All right. So
yes, Councillor Kerrio.

8251
09:34:35,490 --> 09:34:36,450
- Quick question.

8252
09:34:36,450 --> 09:34:39,810
Who pays for the land that
we give to the school board

8253
09:34:39,810 --> 09:34:41,610
for the school board?

8254
09:34:41,610 --> 09:34:43,110
Who covers the cost of that land?

8255
09:34:43,110 --> 09:34:44,040
- [Jim] Does the school board pay?

8256
09:34:44,040 --> 09:34:45,318
- [Rocky] School board pays.

8257
09:34:45,318 --> 09:34:46,151
- The school board pays?

8258
09:34:46,151 --> 09:34:47,520
- Appraised value, which-

8259
09:34:47,520 --> 09:34:49,820
- They pay the appraised
value for that, okay.

8260
09:34:50,820 --> 09:34:54,690
- Yeah, land's a lot more
valuable as developable,

8261
09:34:54,690 --> 09:34:56,790
as opposed to lands you sell

8262
09:34:56,790 --> 09:34:58,740
to the school for appraised value.

8263
09:34:58,740 --> 09:35:00,330
- So if I can ask another question,

8264
09:35:00,330 --> 09:35:05,330
so I know it suggested that the
school in the park be along,

8265
09:35:06,570 --> 09:35:08,013
in this case, the highway.

8266
09:35:09,056 --> 09:35:11,580
- The park remains-
- Or where is it?

8267
09:35:11,580 --> 09:35:13,560
- The park is the CP,
- Oh, church, I'm sorry.

8268
09:35:13,560 --> 09:35:14,880
- Yeah, the church.
- Okay.

8269
09:35:14,880 --> 09:35:16,890
- Yeah, we're talking about
institutional corridor,

8270
09:35:16,890 --> 09:35:19,260
having the church and school together.

8271
09:35:19,260 --> 09:35:20,280
- And the school, it's funny,

8272
09:35:20,280 --> 09:35:22,980
the church just had a big blow up

8273
09:35:22,980 --> 09:35:24,723
castle thing the other day.

8274
09:35:24,723 --> 09:35:25,740
I noticed that a big barbecue out there

8275
09:35:25,740 --> 09:35:27,030
on the lawn and whatnot.

8276
09:35:27,030 --> 09:35:28,080
The other thing I noticed too,

8277
09:35:28,080 --> 09:35:29,970
with schools I could see in the past,

8278
09:35:29,970 --> 09:35:32,430
not want to have the noise of a highway.

8279
09:35:32,430 --> 09:35:33,780
But today they're all air conditioned.

8280
09:35:33,780 --> 09:35:35,250
All the new schools with triple-pane.

8281
09:35:35,250 --> 09:35:37,470
Like, I mean, it's not like it used to be.

8282
09:35:37,470 --> 09:35:39,420
I've been in a number of new
businesses along the highway.

8283
09:35:39,420 --> 09:35:41,100
You can't even hear the highway going by.

8284
09:35:41,100 --> 09:35:42,900
You can't hear the transport trucks.

8285
09:35:42,900 --> 09:35:46,050
So staff have asked us if
we could take a short recess

8286
09:35:46,050 --> 09:35:48,600
where they can maybe, based on the input

8287
09:35:48,600 --> 09:35:50,970
and they've gauged the input from council,

8288
09:35:50,970 --> 09:35:54,300
maybe they can come back with some revised

8289
09:35:54,300 --> 09:35:56,340
worded recommendations.

8290
09:35:56,340 --> 09:36:01,200
So if council's good with
that, maybe we can take a five,

8291
09:36:01,200 --> 09:36:03,180
10 minute recess till staff come back.

8292
09:36:03,180 --> 09:36:05,160
And then you'll have a chance to address

8293
09:36:05,160 --> 09:36:07,140
those updated comments.

8294
09:36:07,140 --> 09:36:08,220
Yes, Councillor Kerrio?

8295
09:36:08,220 --> 09:36:09,053
- Another thing I was going to say,

8296
09:36:09,053 --> 09:36:11,220
we've had both sides given to us.

8297
09:36:11,220 --> 09:36:12,720
Really it's going to
be a council decision.

8298
09:36:12,720 --> 09:36:15,930
- It is, I think staff just wanted.

8299
09:36:15,930 --> 09:36:17,180
Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah.

8300
09:36:18,802 --> 09:36:19,635
- And perhaps I can just elaborate.

8301
09:36:19,635 --> 09:36:21,900
Our recommendations
technically won't change,

8302
09:36:21,900 --> 09:36:24,180
but we want to make sure
those recommendations

8303
09:36:24,180 --> 09:36:27,090
that you pass cover all the boxes.

8304
09:36:27,090 --> 09:36:29,490
But if you let us know which
direction you want to head,

8305
09:36:29,490 --> 09:36:33,450
if you're agreeing with Mr.
Vacca's direction collectively,

8306
09:36:33,450 --> 09:36:34,980
then if we can take a five minute recess

8307
09:36:34,980 --> 09:36:36,450
before you make the final decision

8308
09:36:36,450 --> 09:36:39,543
with those recommendations that
you would put forward then.

8309
09:36:40,576 --> 09:36:42,210
That's all, just to make
sure that we cover all the.

8310
09:36:42,210 --> 09:36:44,760
- Yeah, Mr. Mayor,
before you recess, again,

8311
09:36:44,760 --> 09:36:49,260
all we're asking is that the
two by-laws on your agenda

8312
09:36:49,260 --> 09:36:53,580
be passed in the form and
content I sent on Friday,

8313
09:36:53,580 --> 09:36:55,020
the clean versions.

8314
09:36:55,020 --> 09:36:57,429
The only difference between
those versions and the ones

8315
09:36:57,429 --> 09:37:01,936
that staff has prepared is Schedule 8,

8316
09:37:01,936 --> 09:37:06,870
and some language within the
by-laws that deal with the park

8317
09:37:06,870 --> 09:37:09,930
because your language said
had to be four hectares.

8318
09:37:09,930 --> 09:37:13,680
We removed that so there's
no mandatory 10 acres.

8319
09:37:13,680 --> 09:37:15,120
So very minor changes.

8320
09:37:15,120 --> 09:37:19,050
But quite frankly, if
council is prepared to do so,

8321
09:37:19,050 --> 09:37:23,340
all you need to do is to approve
the clean amended by-laws

8322
09:37:23,340 --> 09:37:27,900
I sent through on Friday,
which has revised Schedule A-8,

8323
09:37:27,900 --> 09:37:30,570
a revised schedule on the zoning by-law,

8324
09:37:30,570 --> 09:37:33,990
and some minor word changes
to reflect those changes

8325
09:37:33,990 --> 09:37:35,550
in the by-laws, that's all it is.

8326
09:37:35,550 --> 09:37:37,230
- Okay. Well, why don't we do this then?

8327
09:37:37,230 --> 09:37:39,780
Then we'll take a brief recess.

8328
09:37:39,780 --> 09:37:41,430
Give staff a chance to put this together

8329
09:37:41,430 --> 09:37:42,570
and we'll bring everybody back.

8330
09:37:42,570 --> 09:37:45,060
So why don't we say we'll
come back in 10 minutes.

8331
09:37:45,060 --> 09:37:46,080
Pee break time.

8332
10:07:21,949 --> 10:07:23,809
- [Assistant] Part three.

8333
10:07:23,809 --> 10:07:24,642
All right everyone, welcome back.

8334
10:07:24,642 --> 10:07:28,800
We just had a recess just to
discuss some of the matters

8335
10:07:28,800 --> 10:07:31,620
that we were just
discussing and allow staff

8336
10:07:31,620 --> 10:07:35,940
some time to put together
an actual recommendation.

8337
10:07:35,940 --> 10:07:39,630
So I guess our next step, I'm
going to go back to our staff

8338
10:07:39,630 --> 10:07:41,760
and see if we can't have them present

8339
10:07:41,760 --> 10:07:45,363
what you've put together
for us to consider.

8340
10:07:47,490 --> 10:07:49,410
- Thank you, Your Worship.

8341
10:07:49,410 --> 10:07:53,310
So obviously our recommendation
as planning staff stands.

8342
10:07:53,310 --> 10:07:57,060
We've done a lot of analysis
on our planning recommendation,

8343
10:07:57,060 --> 10:07:58,470
so it does stand.

8344
10:07:58,470 --> 10:08:02,670
But should council wish to
modify based on Schedule A-8

8345
10:08:02,670 --> 10:08:05,790
that was presented by
Mr. Vacca this evening,

8346
10:08:05,790 --> 10:08:10,413
I can read out a revised
recommendation if you do that.

8347
10:08:11,670 --> 10:08:13,800
And like I said, I just want to be clear

8348
10:08:13,800 --> 10:08:16,170
to our planning staff because
we have no planning rationale

8349
10:08:16,170 --> 10:08:18,990
for A-8 that's been
presented here tonight.

8350
10:08:18,990 --> 10:08:21,630
So just so you're aware,

8351
10:08:21,630 --> 10:08:25,170
but that we have this recommendation.

8352
10:08:25,170 --> 10:08:28,830
So should council choose
to follow Schedule A-8

8353
10:08:28,830 --> 10:08:30,540
as presented by Mr. Vacca,

8354
10:08:30,540 --> 10:08:33,540
the recommendation would read as follows:

8355
10:08:33,540 --> 10:08:36,720
that council directs staff
to make modifications, sorry,

8356
10:08:36,720 --> 10:08:38,430
to the proposed official plan amendment

8357
10:08:38,430 --> 10:08:41,040
for Northwest secondary plan policies

8358
10:08:41,040 --> 10:08:44,850
and schedules to incorporate
the relocation of the school

8359
10:08:44,850 --> 10:08:47,490
and reduction of the parkland
pursuant to Schedule A-8

8360
10:08:47,490 --> 10:08:51,180
presented in the verbal
presentation of Rocky Vacca,

8361
10:08:51,180 --> 10:08:56,180
Sullivan Mahoney on behalf
of MVORA Developments, Inc.

8362
10:08:56,340 --> 10:08:59,100
Dated August 11th, 2026.

8363
10:08:59,100 --> 10:09:01,335
And further, that council direct staff

8364
10:09:01,335 --> 10:09:02,640
to make the modification of the proposed

8365
10:09:02,640 --> 10:09:03,690
zoning by-law amendment

8366
10:09:03,690 --> 10:09:06,670
for the Northwest Secondary
Plan policies and schedules

8367
10:09:09,717 --> 10:09:11,100
to incorporate the
relocation of the school

8368
10:09:11,100 --> 10:09:14,190
and reduction of the parkland
pursuant to Schedule A-8

8369
10:09:14,190 --> 10:09:17,640
presented in the verbal
presentation of Rocky Vacca,

8370
10:09:17,640 --> 10:09:20,730
Sullivan Mahoney on behalf
of MVORA Developments Inc.

8371
10:09:20,730 --> 10:09:23,130
Dated August 11th, 2026.

8372
10:09:23,130 --> 10:09:25,740
And further, the council
directs staff to bring forward

8373
10:09:25,740 --> 10:09:28,500
the implementing by-laws for
the Northwest Secondary Plan

8374
10:09:28,500 --> 10:09:31,590
at a further delegated meeting
as modified and approved

8375
10:09:31,590 --> 10:09:34,170
by council at its August 11th meeting

8376
10:09:34,170 --> 10:09:37,263
with notice of decision
issued immediately thereafter.

8377
10:09:38,670 --> 10:09:41,730
- Yep. So are we comfortable with this?

8378
10:09:41,730 --> 10:09:43,860
Did we have any just before we...

8379
10:09:43,860 --> 10:09:45,810
So in fairness to the applicant,

8380
10:09:45,810 --> 10:09:50,250
you heard our general manager of planning.

8381
10:09:50,250 --> 10:09:55,250
And any comment or any insight
before we move forward?

8382
10:09:59,704 --> 10:10:02,310
- [Rocky] Well, the
only concern I have is.

8383
10:10:02,310 --> 10:10:04,680
- [Council Member] Turn
on the microphone, please.

8384
10:10:04,680 --> 10:10:09,600
- Mr. Mayor, the only
concern I have is I heard

8385
10:10:09,600 --> 10:10:12,720
revising Schedule A-8 as presented,

8386
10:10:12,720 --> 10:10:16,303
revising the two by-laws as presented.

8387
10:10:16,303 --> 10:10:19,440
I just want to be sure that
the text in the by-laws

8388
10:10:19,440 --> 10:10:20,943
as presented in those clean by-laws.

8389
10:10:20,943 --> 10:10:22,350
- It's not going to be that.

8390
10:10:22,350 --> 10:10:24,000
It's going to be staff written by-laws.

8391
10:10:24,000 --> 10:10:25,470
So the main things that we're addressing,

8392
10:10:25,470 --> 10:10:28,020
we're not addressing the
density and the other matters.

8393
10:10:28,020 --> 10:10:28,853
- No, no.

8394
10:10:28,853 --> 10:10:30,330
- It's going to be around the park.

8395
10:10:30,330 --> 10:10:31,530
We're going to go to half.

8396
10:10:31,530 --> 10:10:32,363
- Okay.

8397
10:10:32,363 --> 10:10:34,645
- And the school, we're going
to go to the arterial roadway.

8398
10:10:34,645 --> 10:10:35,478
- Okay.

8399
10:10:35,478 --> 10:10:36,951
- So that's the main things, right?

8400
10:10:36,951 --> 10:10:39,120
And then we're going to let
staff work on the, you know,

8401
10:10:39,120 --> 10:10:42,090
the exact particulars and
of the actual by-law itself

8402
10:10:42,090 --> 10:10:43,740
for our next meeting, okaY?

8403
10:10:43,740 --> 10:10:45,240
But that's we've come to.

8404
10:10:45,240 --> 10:10:46,707
Is that right Ms. Dolch?

8405
10:10:47,929 --> 10:10:50,370
- That's correct, but it will
be at a delegated meeting,

8406
10:10:50,370 --> 10:10:54,240
which would be convened internally,

8407
10:10:54,240 --> 10:10:57,274
just because you don't
have a subsequent meeting.

8408
10:10:57,274 --> 10:10:58,107
- Council meeting.

8409
10:10:58,107 --> 10:10:58,940
- [Rocky] Yeah. That was my next question.

8410
10:10:58,940 --> 10:11:01,593
When do we expect that
delegated meeting and approval?

8411
10:11:04,320 --> 10:11:05,490
- She just flew home this morning.

8412
10:11:05,490 --> 10:11:06,323
- [Rocky] Oh, I get it.

8413
10:11:06,323 --> 10:11:07,156
- She doesn't know where she is.

8414
10:11:07,156 --> 10:11:08,100
- [Rocky] I'm not saying tomorrow,

8415
10:11:08,100 --> 10:11:10,860
but I just don't want it
to be December, that's all.

8416
10:11:10,860 --> 10:11:13,183
- I'll have to get back to you on that.

8417
10:11:13,183 --> 10:11:15,963
I have to see when we get
those by-laws modified.

8418
10:11:17,040 --> 10:11:18,870
But obviously as soon as possible,

8419
10:11:18,870 --> 10:11:20,970
we will get them on the
next delegated meeting

8420
10:11:20,970 --> 10:11:24,240
or the next or subsequent
delegated meeting agenda

8421
10:11:24,240 --> 10:11:26,670
once Mr. Millar has a chance
to modify the by-laws.

8422
10:11:26,670 --> 10:11:27,503
- [Rocky] Okay.

8423
10:11:28,350 --> 10:11:30,214
- Okay. Ms. Gilberti, would you like to?

8424
10:11:30,214 --> 10:11:32,051
- I know we're law partners.

8425
10:11:32,051 --> 10:11:33,720
- Yes. Well, he's the-

8426
10:11:33,720 --> 10:11:36,570
- And we see everything eye to eye

8427
10:11:36,570 --> 10:11:40,483
as what was presented by
Mr. Vacca, absolutely.

8428
10:11:42,120 --> 10:11:44,610
Club Italia needs to be part of whatever

8429
10:11:44,610 --> 10:11:48,900
continued delegated discussions
and meetings are held

8430
10:11:48,900 --> 10:11:52,560
and has to be satisfactory
also to the club.

8431
10:11:52,560 --> 10:11:55,020
For example, I don't
want to see five acres

8432
10:11:55,020 --> 10:11:57,273
of parkland on club property.

8433
10:11:58,920 --> 10:12:00,750
- Yeah, well, we wouldn't
want to do that either,

8434
10:12:00,750 --> 10:12:03,930
but they'll be part of
those delegated meetings.

8435
10:12:03,930 --> 10:12:04,763
- Thank you, Your Worship.

8436
10:12:04,763 --> 10:12:07,140
So the delegated meetings would
just be to pass the by-laws

8437
10:12:07,140 --> 10:12:09,240
in accordance with the
decisions you make this evening.

8438
10:12:09,240 --> 10:12:13,200
So we're not, you know, in
terms of the parkland here

8439
10:12:13,200 --> 10:12:15,570
and the school, those are
the changes we'll make

8440
10:12:15,570 --> 10:12:17,490
to the by-law and that is it.

8441
10:12:17,490 --> 10:12:20,010
And so it's based on your
direction here this evening

8442
10:12:20,010 --> 10:12:23,370
and we will modify the by-laws in that way

8443
10:12:23,370 --> 10:12:26,850
and pass based on your
recommendations because again,

8444
10:12:26,850 --> 10:12:29,550
we would have no authority
to pass a by-law otherwise.

8445
10:12:31,680 --> 10:12:33,240
- Good?
- Good.

8446
10:12:33,240 --> 10:12:35,670
- Okay. So you're moving it? Okay.

8447
10:12:35,670 --> 10:12:38,550
Moved by Councillor Strange,
seconded by Councillor Kerrio.

8448
10:12:38,550 --> 10:12:40,890
Is there any further discussion?

8449
10:12:40,890 --> 10:12:43,950
Okay, seeing none, we'll call
the vote. All those in favor.

8450
10:12:43,950 --> 10:12:45,420
Okay. So that is approved.

8451
10:12:45,420 --> 10:12:47,610
Thank you everybody for your time.

8452
10:12:47,610 --> 10:12:51,060
And we're not finished
working on our Shady Oaks bits

8453
10:12:51,060 --> 10:12:52,492
there either, but we're
just going to bring

8454
10:12:52,492 --> 10:12:54,030
the rest of the council back in

8455
10:12:54,030 --> 10:12:58,860
and then we're going to do our by-laws.

8456
10:12:58,860 --> 10:13:01,890
And then we're concluded. This
meeting's almost concluded.

8457
10:13:01,890 --> 10:13:03,490
It'll be done in about a minute.

8458
10:13:05,359 --> 10:13:08,250
(council members chattering)

8459
10:13:08,250 --> 10:13:09,663
Okay, yeah, sure.

8460
10:13:10,927 --> 10:13:14,677
(council members chattering)

8461
10:13:17,370 --> 10:13:20,160
- Terry, did you get that
mail? Did you get your mail?

8462
10:13:20,160 --> 10:13:21,243
Your package?

8463
10:13:22,360 --> 10:13:23,400
(Jim laughs)

8464
10:13:23,400 --> 10:13:24,818
- [Audience Member] How are you?

8465
10:13:24,818 --> 10:13:27,372
- [Council Member] Good, good to see You.

8466
10:13:27,372 --> 10:13:29,640
(council members chattering)

8467
10:13:29,640 --> 10:13:31,244
- [Council Member] Thank you guys.

8468
10:13:31,244 --> 10:13:32,970
Thanks, Bency. Good night.

8469
10:13:32,970 --> 10:13:35,174
- Why is Joe so tanned, Andrew?

8470
10:13:35,174 --> 10:13:36,293
- Buonasera

8471
10:13:36,293 --> 10:13:39,186
- Why is he so tanned? Bonasera, huh?

8472
10:13:39,186 --> 10:13:40,019
(audience member speaks faintly)

8473
10:13:40,019 --> 10:13:42,690
Exactly. You know the guys who work.

8474
10:13:42,690 --> 10:13:43,790
They don't have a tan.

8475
10:13:44,725 --> 10:13:48,270
(council members chattering)

8476
10:13:48,270 --> 10:13:52,443
All right, thanks, Natalia.
Thanks, Felix. Ciao.

8477
10:13:53,580 --> 10:13:56,253
Thanks, Rox. See you, Mark. See you, Fred.

8478
10:14:05,670 --> 10:14:08,650
Is he good with that?
Good. Okay, great. Great.

8479
10:14:12,364 --> 10:14:16,500
All right. So we've got
everybody gathered again.

8480
10:14:16,500 --> 10:14:18,720
So for the rest of council,

8481
10:14:18,720 --> 10:14:21,240
we approved modified recommendations

8482
10:14:21,240 --> 10:14:23,820
that staff helped us put together.

8483
10:14:23,820 --> 10:14:26,400
And we're now at the by-laws.

8484
10:14:26,400 --> 10:14:28,140
Also, we do have some concerns

8485
10:14:28,140 --> 10:14:30,747
that we're going to follow
up on with Shady Oaks,

8486
10:14:30,747 --> 10:14:33,450
but you guys weren't
here, but these residents,

8487
10:14:33,450 --> 10:14:37,770
they're residents of Shady
Oaks who were not notified

8488
10:14:37,770 --> 10:14:40,170
what was happening by the landlord.

8489
10:14:40,170 --> 10:14:42,630
So somebody dropped the ball
and we're going to follow up

8490
10:14:42,630 --> 10:14:45,180
and find out what's going
on there for these folks.

8491
10:14:45,180 --> 10:14:48,033
So we are now at the by-laws, Mr. Clerk.

8492
10:14:49,470 --> 10:14:51,840
- Yeah, so just so everyone's aware

8493
10:14:51,840 --> 10:14:56,840
the by-laws will now read
2026-070 through to 2026-076.

8494
10:15:01,140 --> 10:15:04,470
There are four by-laws now
that will come off the agenda,

8495
10:15:04,470 --> 10:15:08,790
and then we'll also
approve 82 through to 99.

8496
10:15:08,790 --> 10:15:12,783
So it's just 70 to 76 and
then 82 through to 99.

8497
10:15:15,270 --> 10:15:16,103
- Okay.

8498
10:15:17,190 --> 10:15:19,590
- Your worship, I would move
first, second, and third,

8499
10:15:19,590 --> 10:15:22,890
but I wanted to add to
the original conflict

8500
10:15:22,890 --> 10:15:24,493
on Northwest secondary plan.

8501
10:15:24,493 --> 10:15:26,370
There's two by-laws as well.

8502
10:15:26,370 --> 10:15:29,280
Did those ones come off
or do I add them on?

8503
10:15:29,280 --> 10:15:30,113
- They came off.

8504
10:15:30,113 --> 10:15:32,430
- They came off. Okay.
Then I'll leave it alone.

8505
10:15:32,430 --> 10:15:33,810
- You're moving the by-laws?

8506
10:15:33,810 --> 10:15:36,023
- First, second and third
reading Your Worship.

8507
10:15:37,144 --> 10:15:38,810
- Okay, thank you. Motion
by Councillor Pietrangelo,

8508
10:15:38,810 --> 10:15:41,411
seconded by Councillor Kerrio

8509
10:15:41,411 --> 10:15:42,960
that the by-laws be given a first, second,

8510
10:15:42,960 --> 10:15:45,120
and third reading, Councillor Lococo.

8511
10:15:45,120 --> 10:15:50,120
- Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Conflict on 078 and 079.

8512
10:15:50,880 --> 10:15:52,890
That's this one, the northwest.

8513
10:15:52,890 --> 10:15:56,940
And then 082 and 083, Kitchener Street.

8514
10:15:56,940 --> 10:15:58,680
I was opposed to the development.

8515
10:15:58,680 --> 10:16:00,213
- But I think those ones got removed.

8516
10:16:00,213 --> 10:16:01,046
- Yeah, they were removed.

8517
10:16:01,046 --> 10:16:01,879
- That's what he just said.

8518
10:16:01,879 --> 10:16:02,910
- Otherwise, I was going to
declare the same conflict.

8519
10:16:02,910 --> 10:16:04,440
- Yeah, but that's okay.

8520
10:16:04,440 --> 10:16:05,740
- They got removed.

8521
10:16:05,740 --> 10:16:06,573
- Okay, we'll call the vote.

8522
10:16:06,573 --> 10:16:08,970
All those in favor.
Motion for adjournment.

8523
10:16:08,970 --> 10:16:13,053
Councillor Kerrio.
Councillors. Pietrangelo.

8524
10:16:14,970 --> 10:16:16,792
- And they change, is
there's still a chance?

8525
10:16:16,792 --> 10:16:19,460
- What? No, give it a second.

8526
10:16:19,460 --> 10:16:20,790
You're going to second
motion for adjournment?

8527
10:16:20,790 --> 10:16:21,623
- Sure.

8528
10:16:21,623 --> 10:16:23,340
- Okay. All those in favor?

8529
10:16:23,340 --> 10:16:24,930
All right, we're adjourned,
everybody. Thank you.

8530
10:16:24,930 --> 10:16:27,150
It's been a great term.
Thank you, everybody.

8531
10:16:27,150 --> 10:16:28,527
You're welcome, yeah.

8532
10:16:28,527 --> 10:16:29,360
Thank you.

8533
10:16:29,360 --> 10:16:30,777
(council members applaud)

8534
10:16:30,777 --> 10:16:34,413
And thank you to our
loyal gallery. Thank you.