[2:48] - Good morning, everyone.
[2:49] That's something different to say, right?
[2:51] Good morning as opposed to good afternoon.
[2:54] Welcome to the City Council
Meeting for August 11th, 2026.
[2:58] Our first order of business
[3:00] is to have a resolution to go in camera.
[3:03] So I have a resolution moved
by Councillor Nieuwesteeg,
[3:07] seconded by Councillor Kerrio.
[3:08] If there aren't any questions,
I'll call the motion.
[3:10] All those in favor.
Okay, thanks very much.
[3:13] So we're going to break now.
[3:14] Well, we're going to go in the back room
[3:15] probably for a couple hours
and then we'll come back
[3:17] and have our regular council meeting.
[2:31:05] - Hello everybody.
[2:31:06] Welcome back to tonight's
last scheduled council meeting
[2:31:10] of the term.
[2:31:11] It is Tuesday, August 11th.
[2:31:14] We just concluded our in-camera meeting,
[2:31:17] went a little bit longer than planned,
[2:31:19] where we discussed a number of matters
[2:31:21] we're not allowed by law
to speak about in open.
[2:31:24] So we are now in open
and as is our tradition,
[2:31:28] we start off first by singing of O Canada.
[2:31:31] So let me introduce our
singer for O Canada.
[2:31:34] She is sitting in the front
row looking very ready.
[2:31:38] Her name is Queenie Wu.
[2:31:40] Queenie was chosen to represent
the Niagara Music Festival
[2:31:44] at the 2026 Ontario Music
Festival Association Competition,
[2:31:48] where she won first
place and best in class
[2:31:52] in musical theater and in classical voice.
[2:31:56] She was also a top three winner
[2:31:58] at the National Association
of Teachers of Singing
[2:32:01] in the Students Audition in 2025.
[2:32:04] She's going into grade
four, she pointed out.
[2:32:08] And you know how when you're younger,
[2:32:09] you always talk about the
age you're going to be.
[2:32:11] And when you're older,
[2:32:13] we talk about kind of the age we were.
[2:32:15] So we'd like to welcome
tonight Queenie Wu.
[2:32:17] We're lucky to have her
singing O Canada for all of us.
[2:32:21] So please Queenie, stand if you can,
[2:32:25] please ladies and gentlemen.
[2:32:26] And Queenie, whenever you're ready, honey.
[2:32:30] ♪ O Canada! Our home and native land ♪
[2:32:40] ♪ True patriot love in all of us command ♪
[2:32:50] ♪ With glowing hearts we see thee rise ♪
[2:32:54] ♪ The True North strong and free ♪
[2:32:59] ♪ From far and wide, O Canada ♪
[2:33:04] ♪ We stand on guard for thee ♪
[2:33:09] ♪ God keep our land glorious and free ♪
[2:33:19] ♪ O Canada, we stand on guard for thee ♪
[2:33:29] ♪ O Canada, we stand on guard for thee ♪
[2:33:42] (audience applauds)
[2:33:55] - Wow, Queenie, that may be one
of the best national anthems
[2:34:00] that we've ever had sung here.
[2:34:02] It had so much energy and passion.
[2:34:05] You even covered your
heart when you were singing
[2:34:08] at one point.
[2:34:09] I want to say, I know. I see
the looks on everyone's faces.
[2:34:11] I speak on everyone's behalf
when we say amazing thank you.
[2:34:15] You have a very bright
and promising future.
[2:34:18] Thanks Queenie.
[2:34:19] (audience applauds)
[2:34:24] - Wow, Councillor Kerrio,
[2:34:26] did you have something you wanted?
[2:34:29] - [Vince] She could sing at Super Bowl.
[2:34:30] (audience laughs)
[2:34:31] - I would agree with that.
[2:34:34] Or next year's Canada Day.
[2:34:35] There's a lot of opportunities.
[2:34:36] Make sure we got her number, okay?
[2:34:38] We're going to get her to
doing some other things.
[2:34:39] Queenie, thank you.
[2:34:40] Thank you to mom for
bringing you here today too.
[2:34:43] Well done. Great job,
honey. Thank you. Thank you.
[2:34:46] (audience applauds)
[2:34:49] - [Council Member] Good thing she did
[2:34:50] the last council meeting because
no one else could follow.
[2:34:52] - I know. That's a good point.
You should have said that.
[2:34:56] Hey, Queenie, our city manager just said
[2:34:59] it's a good thing you did
the last council meeting
[2:35:01] because if you did any other one,
[2:35:03] nobody would want to do
the next one after yours.
[2:35:06] So well done, honey. Great job.
[2:35:08] - [Queenie] Thank you so much.
[2:35:09] Thank you, honey. Thank
you. Thank you very much.
[2:35:13] All right (laughs).
[2:35:15] The rest of the meeting's going
to be a downer after that.
[2:35:17] Oh my goodness.
[2:35:19] Okay, moving along, ladies and gentlemen,
[2:35:21] we now move to our land acknowledgement.
[2:35:24] With the aim of educating our community,
[2:35:26] I'd like to invite Michele-Elise
Burnett, who's Bear Clan,
[2:35:30] Thunderbird Clan and Metis to
join us to share her testimony
[2:35:34] as we acknowledge and thank
the indigenous peoples
[2:35:36] who are stewards of this land
for a millennia before us.
[2:35:43] - [Michele] Hi (speaks foreign language)
[2:35:54] My spirit name is She
Who Is In The Centre.
[2:35:57] My French English name
is Michele-Elise Burnett.
[2:36:00] I am an artist, curator, producer,
[2:36:02] and storyteller of mixed
indigenous and European ancestry
[2:36:06] with Nipissing Algonquin roots.
[2:36:08] In my teachings, we are
reminded that every decision
[2:36:12] that we make, we must consider
the impacts it will have
[2:36:15] on the next seven generations.
[2:36:18] We strive for Mino-Bimaadiziwin,
to live a good life,
[2:36:22] one that seeks balance
with all life forces,
[2:36:25] and a life that truly matters.
[2:36:27] It means leading from the heart,
seeing, listening, feeling,
[2:36:31] speaking, and acting with good intentions
[2:36:34] and never for self-serving reasons.
[2:36:36] Gichi-Manidoo, the creator,
gave all creation gifts
[2:36:40] to share with one another.
[2:36:42] And with those gifts,
come responsibilities.
[2:36:45] The first is gratitude.
[2:36:48] Let's give gratitude for
the life-sustaining gifts
[2:36:51] that Mother Earth provides.
[2:36:53] She is our greatest teacher,
[2:36:55] demonstrating generosity each day
[2:36:57] without ever asking anything in return.
[2:37:00] We as human beings must
learn from our older
[2:37:03] and wiser relatives.
[2:37:05] We must remember that our very existence
[2:37:08] is supported by their gifts.
[2:37:10] And by thanking each
life-sustaining force,
[2:37:13] one becomes tied to each of the
forces of the natural world.
[2:37:17] It also reminds us that
what is done to one part
[2:37:20] of the web of life has
repercussions on all life forms,
[2:37:25] including ourselves.
[2:37:27] When we carry this understanding
into our workplace,
[2:37:30] our homes, and our daily
choices, we are actively caring
[2:37:35] for the next seven generations with love,
[2:37:38] generosity, and gratitude.
[2:37:45] - Together for the land that we share.
[2:37:50] Okay, moving along the agenda,
we're looking for an adoption
[2:37:53] of the minutes from the July 28th meeting.
[2:37:55] Motion by Councillor Nieuwesteeg,
[2:37:57] seconded by Councillor Kerrio.
[2:37:59] We'll call the motion to
approve. All those in favor.
[2:38:03] Okay, and that's unanimous.
Thank you for that.
[2:38:05] Are there any disclosures
[2:38:06] of a pecuniary interest of council?
[2:38:09] Councillor Lococo.
[2:38:11] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor, I have
sent the clerk my disclosure
[2:38:14] for 8.3AM 2026-010, the
Northwest Secondary Plan.
[2:38:20] I'm a current paid up
member with Club Italia,
[2:38:22] so I would remove myself
from the discussions.
[2:38:25] - Okay.
- Thank you.
[2:38:26] - Thank you for that. Yeah.
Councillor Pietrangelo.
[2:38:29] - Thanks, Your Worship. Same one.
[2:38:31] PBD 2026-39, the Northwest Secondary Plan.
[2:38:35] My parents are members of Club Italia.
[2:38:41] - Yes, Councillor Patel.
[2:38:42] (Mona speaking faintly)
[2:38:43] - A member of the Club Italia.
[2:38:45] And also in our official plan,
[2:38:46] there's a comment received from agency.
[2:38:48] It's a workplace of my spouse.
[2:38:51] - Okay. Thank you for that.
[2:38:54] I am also a member of Club Italia,
[2:38:56] but I wasn't informed
that it was a conflict,
[2:38:59] and it's up to the individual
to choose if they feel
[2:39:01] it's a conflict.
[2:39:02] Certainly not a pecuniary
interest, but just the same.
[2:39:05] I do want to be public and open about that
[2:39:08] as I chair this meeting.
[2:39:10] So if there's no further disclosures,
[2:39:13] we'll move along to everyone's
favorite part of the meeting.
[2:39:17] This is the mayor's
remarks and announcements,
[2:39:20] especially Councillor
Kerrio, he loves this part.
[2:39:22] Want to start off by
acknowledging the birthday
[2:39:24] of Councillor Strange.
[2:39:26] August the 6th. Happy
birthday, councillor.
[2:39:28] (audience applauds)
[2:39:32] Also, James Dowling from
our finance department,
[2:39:35] his birthday's tomorrow.
[2:39:37] And also Councillor Kerrio,
[2:39:39] whose birthday is August the 15th.
[2:39:41] Happy birthday, Councillor Kerrio.
[2:39:43] (audience applauds)
[2:39:47] So different events, and we do have photos
[2:39:50] for anyone that wants to
follow along on the screens.
[2:39:53] First, let's talk about the flood.
[2:39:55] I mean, we had a very
major wet weather event
[2:39:59] here in Niagara region.
[2:40:00] We had several in fact,
including in Niagara Falls.
[2:40:03] So many residents are still
dealing with a flood recovery.
[2:40:06] You'll see that we've had
pickups all around the city
[2:40:09] and the region, and it's
going to take a long time.
[2:40:12] It's going to take several months
[2:40:13] till we get caught up
and we get ahead of this.
[2:40:16] Many people lost valuable
or valuable personal items
[2:40:21] that had sentimental value,
damages to homes, to property.
[2:40:25] And in St. Catharines we're
reading about sinkholes
[2:40:28] and damage to the Martindale
Pond and many other things
[2:40:31] that water doesn't discriminate
[2:40:34] and it's affecting a lot of people.
[2:40:36] I want to compliment our staff
[2:40:38] who jumped into action immediately
[2:40:40] to create the Flood
Recovery Support Registry
[2:40:44] where people could register
on the city's website
[2:40:48] and have their flood damaged
items picked up at their curb.
[2:40:52] We had a pickup yesterday.
That took place.
[2:40:55] It was successful.
[2:40:56] And if you missed that one,
[2:40:58] you can register for
our second pickup date.
[2:41:01] So this is public information,
so please share this.
[2:41:04] We'll share this on
all of our social media
[2:41:06] and our print media.
[2:41:08] The next one, the sign up
must be done by this Thursday,
[2:41:13] August the 13th at 3:00 PM.
[2:41:16] The pickup will be the following
Monday, August the 17th,
[2:41:20] at the curb of your home.
[2:41:23] And it doesn't matter if it's drywall,
[2:41:25] if it's couches, if it's paper,
[2:41:31] it just can't be things like appliances.
[2:41:33] So if you've got fridges,
freezers, stoves,
[2:41:36] things like that, that's something else.
[2:41:38] But any damage from the
storm, carpeting, flooring,
[2:41:42] put it out, but make
sure sign up by Thursday,
[2:41:46] August the 13th.
[2:41:47] It will be picked up on
Monday, August the 17th.
[2:41:51] Families can also get
waste drop off passes,
[2:41:54] if you want to bring your own items
[2:41:55] to one of the Niagara region waste depots.
[2:41:58] So again, everything's
on the city website.
[2:42:01] We're directing everyone,
please go to the city's website.
[2:42:05] We're also supporting people displaced
[2:42:07] from surrounding communities.
[2:42:09] I know that we've got some residents
[2:42:10] that were displaced in St. Catharines,
[2:42:12] set up shop at the MacBain Centre,
[2:42:15] and we're doing our part as
a neighboring municipality
[2:42:17] to help out.
[2:42:19] So we are sending crews
for additional cleanups.
[2:42:22] As I mentioned, we're housing people
[2:42:24] in our community center, and
we're proud that Niagara Falls
[2:42:27] is stepping up and coming together.
[2:42:30] FIFA had their big watch
party bronze medal game
[2:42:34] in Queen Victoria Park.
[2:42:36] And then they had the gold
medal game, same place.
[2:42:39] It was pretty exciting.
[2:42:41] I was joined at the bronze medal game
[2:42:43] with Councillor Patel,
[2:42:44] and many thousands of people
came out to each game.
[2:42:47] It was a pretty exciting
event and a cool way
[2:42:50] to come together for the first ever
[2:42:53] World Cup held here in North America.
[2:42:56] And based on the success,
[2:42:57] I wouldn't be surprised it's
not going to be the last.
[2:42:59] We had a lot of extra guests
here from all over the world.
[2:43:02] We hosted people from
more than 175 countries
[2:43:05] from around the world, and World
Cup gave them a good excuse
[2:43:08] to come and get a taste of Niagara Falls.
[2:43:11] We had the Niagara Indian
Association gathering
[2:43:14] at Laura Secord Secondary
School in St. Catharines.
[2:43:18] It's a nonprofit charity organization
[2:43:20] serving all of Niagara,
[2:43:21] and I was joined by Councillors Patel,
[2:43:23] Lococo, and Nieuwesteeg.
[2:43:24] We had the Niagara Peninsula
Energy announcement
[2:43:27] at the Niagara Parks
Power Station last week.
[2:43:30] $2.7 million in federal funding
[2:43:34] will be going to Niagara Peninsula Energy.
[2:43:37] And this will be for smart renewables,
[2:43:39] electrification pathways programs.
[2:43:42] This will help for the
new smart grid equipment
[2:43:44] to help detect outages faster,
restore power more quickly,
[2:43:48] and keep electricity flowing reliably
[2:43:51] to homes and businesses.
[2:43:53] I was joined that day
by Councillor Strange,
[2:43:55] Lococo, Nieuwesteeg, and Patel.
[2:43:58] The Santa Congress, that's
right, you heard correctly,
[2:44:00] Santa Congress took place,
[2:44:04] it was Christmas in July
at the Old Stone Inn.
[2:44:07] As we know, it's the site
of the famous jingle bar
[2:44:11] over the holidays
[2:44:11] where we welcome more
than 40 different Santas
[2:44:14] to their market from all around the world.
[2:44:17] All different versions of Santas
[2:44:19] from different countries around the world.
[2:44:22] It was very interesting.
[2:44:23] We hosted the Mayor's
Cup Cricket Tournament
[2:44:26] where we had 10 teams,
[2:44:27] including visiting UK
Cricket Team, who competed.
[2:44:31] More than 500 spectators,
coaches, and family members.
[2:44:35] We had a lot of small business support,
[2:44:37] and I was joined by Councillor
Patel for that big event.
[2:44:41] We had the hundredth
anniversary of Canada's Legions.
[2:44:45] Congratulations this time
to the Local Region 396
[2:44:48] in Chippawa.
[2:44:50] We hosted an event in honor
of 100 years of service
[2:44:54] in Canada.
[2:44:55] I was joined by Councillors
Lococo, Patel and Nieuwesteeg.
[2:44:59] We also had an affair in the vineyard.
[2:45:01] We had it at Albert Zeppatelli's home
[2:45:03] in Niagara on the Lake.
[2:45:05] It's a charitable fundraiser
for the children's garden
[2:45:07] at Niagara Parks.
[2:45:08] I was joined by Councillor Nieuwesteeg.
[2:45:10] We also had the World
Squash Junior Championships
[2:45:13] at White Oaks.
[2:45:14] I was part of the medal ceremony
[2:45:16] as we welcomed great youth
championship squash players
[2:45:20] from all over the world.
[2:45:22] The Niagara Fiesta Extravaganza
took place at Fireman's Park
[2:45:26] celebrating Filipino heritage.
[2:45:28] I was joined by Councillor's Nieuwesteeg,
[2:45:29] Patel, Strange and Lococo.
[2:45:31] And thank you to all who took part.
[2:45:33] It was a very, very big event.
A lot of fun, lot of food.
[2:45:37] OLG had their community recognition event
[2:45:40] and a ribbon cutting
at Prince Charles Pool
[2:45:43] where some of the OLG funds are reinvested
[2:45:46] back into the community.
[2:45:48] And they were there to,
as I say, cut the ribbon.
[2:45:51] There were enhancements to
the new deck of the pool
[2:45:54] at Prince Charles Pool, as
well as the canopy over top,
[2:45:57] which was nice because
it was a very hot day.
[2:46:00] Joined by city councillors
Nieuwesteeg, Patel,
[2:46:02] Lococo and Baldinelli.
[2:46:04] Nike Elite Soccer Clinic took place
[2:46:08] at Mitchelson Park this past week.
[2:46:11] Incredible opportunities
for youth in sport
[2:46:13] and our community to learn and train
[2:46:15] with professionals involved in FIFA.
[2:46:18] So we did have some of these
experts join us that day.
[2:46:21] I was joined by Councillors
Lococo and Patel.
[2:46:25] Celebrity Classic Golf
Tournament took place
[2:46:27] at Thundering Waters where we raised money
[2:46:30] for Birchway Niagara.
[2:46:33] This was the Doug Gilmour event,
[2:46:35] and he invited a lot of his friends,
[2:46:37] including but not limited to.
[2:46:41] Sorry, we jumped ahead. There we go.
[2:46:43] That's Alan Frew in that
picture with Doug Gilmour.
[2:46:45] Alan Frew was the lead
singer of Glass Tiger.
[2:46:49] We had Tim Hicks.
[2:46:51] We had Rick Campinelli from ET Canada.
[2:46:54] Rick Vaive, Ernie Whitt,
former Blue Jays catcher.
[2:46:58] - [Council Member] Marcel Dionne.
[2:46:59] - Marcel Dionne, you see there.
[2:47:01] Alan Cross from 102.1 CFNY.
[2:47:06] And many other, and there's
two of the Trailer Park Boys.
[2:47:10] They've lost weight and
they're working out now.
[2:47:12] So they said they're not drinking
[2:47:13] as much whiskey these days.
[2:47:14] - [Council Member] It breaks their hands.
[2:47:15] - Yeah, no, they're drinking water now.
[2:47:18] So anyway, thanks to Doug Gilmour
[2:47:20] for doing this great event
in Niagara Falls again.
[2:47:23] Now we had our art
exhibition 2026 take place
[2:47:27] at The Exchange.
[2:47:29] And it's an annual event
where we honor artists
[2:47:32] and their supporters.
[2:47:33] So we presented a number of awards,
[2:47:35] including the Mayor's Choice Award.
[2:47:37] So there's a photo of that gentleman.
[2:47:39] His name is Godfrey Afebuame, Afebuame
[2:47:46] And Godfrey's piece of art was the one
[2:47:49] that I had selected as the mayor's.
[2:47:50] Maybe we can back up and show
the artwork. It's a colorful.
[2:47:56] No, it's not that one.
[2:47:57] Oh, do we not have a picture of that one?
[2:47:59] - [Council Member] Those
are the three we have.
[2:48:00] - Oh, okay, they didn't
send the one. Okay.
[2:48:03] (council member speaking faintly)
[2:48:04] All right. No problem.
[2:48:04] So anyway we're grateful to all the people
[2:48:07] who are recognized and thank
you to Councillor Lococo
[2:48:10] for joining me there that day.
[2:48:12] The mayor's Community Charity
Barbecue took place on Sunday.
[2:48:17] We welcomed thousands of
people. It was a big success.
[2:48:21] Thank you to all the city
council came that day.
[2:48:24] Thank you to all of you. It was sunny.
[2:48:26] The weather was great.
[2:48:28] We did it earlier this
year to not conflict
[2:48:31] with the election cycle.
[2:48:33] And the good thing about that,
there were no bees this time.
[2:48:36] So an advantage, instead
of doing it in September,
[2:48:38] early August, we don't have bees,
[2:48:40] but we had Avenue Inn band play.
[2:48:43] We had the car show, Zumba, vendors,
[2:48:45] ice cream and dessert trucks.
[2:48:48] 50/50 draw.
[2:48:49] Our CAO won the 50/50 draw
[2:48:51] and donated it back to the hospital.
[2:48:53] So we did raise $35,000 that
day for our local hospital
[2:48:57] and our new hospice that
both are in the works
[2:49:01] and we're grateful for
everybody's participation.
[2:49:03] So thank you to all for who played a part.
[2:49:06] And when I can't be at all events,
[2:49:09] councillors have to help
represent me at different events.
[2:49:11] Can't be more than one place at once.
[2:49:13] So thank you to Councillor
Lococo representing the city
[2:49:16] at the Family Fun Fair at Willoughby Manor
[2:49:20] and the Africana International
[2:49:21] Health and Business Conference.
[2:49:24] Councillors Lococo, Patel and Nieuwesteeg,
[2:49:26] at the Mella Melna Da.
[2:49:30] Sorry, I'll try to slow down.
[2:49:31] I'll give you guys a chance to catch up.
[2:49:33] Councillor Patel representing the city
[2:49:35] at the Lundy's Lane
Historical Society Battle
[2:49:37] of Lundy's Lane Commemorative Service.
[2:49:40] Councillor Nieuwesteeg,
representing the city
[2:49:42] at the Golden Hour Gala.
[2:49:46] Do we have a picture
for that one? No. Okay.
[2:49:49] Councillors, you got
to send in the pictures
[2:49:50] if you want to put up.
[2:49:51] And we did have some business
milestones and events.
[2:49:55] University of Niagara Falls
had the ribbon cutting
[2:49:58] of the newly renovated
expansion on the fourth floor.
[2:50:02] It's exciting biomedical where they use AI
[2:50:06] in digital where they can dissect with AI
[2:50:12] and it's all done virtual
without actual cadavers.
[2:50:15] It was very interesting.
[2:50:17] Great Wolf, pardon me?
[2:50:19] - [Council Member] Can
we use those at council?
[2:50:21] - Yes, we definitely could (laughs).
[2:50:24] Great Wolf Lodge, we
presented them an award,
[2:50:27] recognizing 10 million
visitors, incredible.
[2:50:32] In 20 years, 10 million visitors,
[2:50:34] a great addition to the
offering in Niagara Falls.
[2:50:37] We had the grand opening at
McDonald's on Victoria Avenue.
[2:50:42] I was Mayor McCheese that day.
[2:50:45] Normally I'm Mayor McCheesey,
that day I was Mayor McCheese.
[2:50:48] Thank you to the Katz family
[2:50:50] for investing again in Niagara Falls.
[2:50:52] I believe they said this
is their 10th location
[2:50:55] here in Niagara.
[2:50:56] Thank you to Councillors Patel,
Baldinelli, and Nieuwesteeg,
[2:50:59] for making the grand opening.
[2:51:01] They're with Hamburglar and Grimace.
[2:51:06] Huh? It's busy. They're
doing well. That's good.
[2:51:09] So now we have Burger King,
Wendy's, and McDonald's
[2:51:11] all in that-
[2:51:12] - [Council Member] You
should have wore the tie.
[2:51:13] - The tie. He didn't offer
it to me. So but thank you.
[2:51:17] Patterson Funeral Home
had the reinstallation
[2:51:21] of the front flag pole.
[2:51:23] Of course, I was joined
by Councillor Nieuwesteeg
[2:51:25] for that along with our Legion members
[2:51:28] as the flag went up once again.
[2:51:30] Did you want to explain,
Councillor Nieuwesteeg,
[2:51:32] why we did that?
[2:51:34] Or what happened there?
[2:51:35] There used to be a flag at one time.
[2:51:38] Without all the details, but just.
[2:51:40] - Yeah, we used to have the
Canadian flag in a garden
[2:51:43] and as renovations happen,
things change over time.
[2:51:46] And we were looking through
old photos and it came back
[2:51:50] and we was like, "Oh, we're
going to recreate this."
[2:51:52] So that was basically that.
[2:51:53] And the Legion was very
generous with their time
[2:51:56] and coming and supporting
our day. Very Canadian.
[2:51:59] - [Jim] And that Patterson made a donation
[2:52:01] to the Legion as well.
[2:52:02] - Yes. Yes, we did.
[2:52:03] - Yeah, thank you for that councillor.
[2:52:04] "Destination Niagara
Magazine" had their launch
[2:52:08] at the Niagara Parks Power Station.
[2:52:11] And there it was. Congratulations
to Councillor Lococo.
[2:52:16] I was joined by Councillor Patel.
[2:52:19] The Indian Spice Route
had their grand opening
[2:52:22] on Centre Street and the
place looks beautiful.
[2:52:26] That sign alone is spectacular.
[2:52:28] They really put a lot of money into it.
[2:52:30] And I have to say, the food
was really, really good.
[2:52:34] Joined by Councillors
Patel and Nieuwesteeg.
[2:52:37] City Councillors Patel and Nieuwesteeg.
[2:52:39] And we had the Mobility Lab
Health Grand Opening yesterday
[2:52:44] on Dorchester Road in
the Boston Pizza Plaza.
[2:52:47] And I was joined by Councillors
Patel and Baldinelli.
[2:52:50] So congratulations to these new businesses
[2:52:53] opening in our community.
[2:52:55] And lastly, I think, is this lastly?
[2:52:57] Yes, lastly.
[2:52:59] Kashechewan First Nation sent us,
[2:53:02] and this should have been added,
[2:53:04] you may need to do a
refresh on your agendas,
[2:53:06] but this letter was
sent and I will read it.
[2:53:09] I joined Chief Wesley
last night for dinner.
[2:53:12] They're leaving today, their community.
[2:53:15] He was really grateful.
[2:53:18] So I was pleased to continue our dialogue,
[2:53:22] meet with the First Nations Chief
[2:53:24] before his community heads home.
[2:53:26] I was joined by Claudius from his council,
[2:53:28] one of the members of their council,
[2:53:31] and also members of our local team.
[2:53:33] Frank Ilya of the Indigenous
Relations Liaison Officer
[2:53:36] with the Niagara Regional Police.
[2:53:38] Chris Gallagher, our manager of our by-law
[2:53:41] who are working very closely together
[2:53:43] with our indigenous communities.
[2:53:45] Thank you to all of their hard work.
[2:53:48] And we received a heartfelt
letter that I'd like to read
[2:53:50] to everyone expressing their gratitude.
[2:53:52] This just came in this morning.
[2:53:55] And it comes from Chief Hosea Wesley,
[2:53:59] Council of Kashechewan First Nation.
[2:54:02] He says, "On behalf of
the Chief and Council
[2:54:04] of Kashechewan First Nation,
[2:54:06] we'd like to extend our heartfelt
gratitude to the residents
[2:54:09] of Niagara Falls and to Mayor Jim Diodati
[2:54:11] and the Council of the
City of Niagara Falls
[2:54:14] for welcoming our community
and providing eight months
[2:54:17] of wonderful hospitality.
[2:54:19] During this time, more than 1,200 members
[2:54:21] of Kashechewan First Nation
were hosted in Niagara Falls
[2:54:25] as evacuees for long-term displacement
[2:54:27] due to water contamination.
[2:54:30] Throughout our stay, our
community members experienced
[2:54:33] kindness, generosity, compassion,
[2:54:35] and respect from so many
people across Niagara.
[2:54:38] We're deeply grateful for the
warm welcome that was extended
[2:54:41] to our families, elders,
youth, and community members.
[2:54:44] Your support provided comfort
and a sense of belonging
[2:54:47] during what was a challenging
time for our community.
[2:54:50] The kindness shown to us
will not be forgotten.
[2:54:52] We're thankful for the
friendships, memories, connections
[2:54:55] that were made during our
eight months in Niagara Falls,
[2:54:57] to the residents, community
organizations, businesses,
[2:55:00] volunteers, and the
leadership of Niagara Falls.
[2:55:03] Chi-miigwech. Thank you from
the bottom of our hearts."
[2:55:07] So that was a very nice
letter from the chief.
[2:55:09] And he was sharing with
us last night at dinner,
[2:55:12] that at first when they got
here, the kids were sad.
[2:55:15] They didn't want to be here.
[2:55:16] They said, "We want to go home."
[2:55:18] And he said, they said
yesterday, "We're sad.
[2:55:21] We don't want to go home.
We want to stay here."
[2:55:24] They really enjoyed the stay here.
[2:55:26] I'm sure it's going to have
an impact on their futures.
[2:55:28] It was nice to have everybody here.
[2:55:30] And the chief invited me
to come up to visit them.
[2:55:34] But you can only fly there in the summer
[2:55:38] and you can only drive there in the winter
[2:55:40] because they build ice roads.
[2:55:41] Very interesting. They're very isolated.
[2:55:43] But the good news, their
water system has been rebuilt
[2:55:46] and they're looking forward.
[2:55:47] He said he misses more
than anything goose.
[2:55:50] They like to eat goose and moose.
[2:55:53] And I just realized that rhymes.
[2:55:54] So I'll let loose and
continue on with the meeting.
[2:55:58] I won't say any more rhymes.
[2:55:59] So next we're going to be
on a city council hiatus.
[2:56:03] Municipal election is
Monday, October 26th.
[2:56:06] Lot of excitement happening
in and around Ontario.
[2:56:09] So thank you to all for your patience
[2:56:11] as we went through the council notes.
[2:56:15] (council member speaking faintly)
[2:56:16] Yeah. Did you like, what was that?
[2:56:18] (council member speaking faintly)
[2:56:20] You know, the-
[2:56:21] - [Council Member] Or
someone might need a goose.
[2:56:23] - Oh, you know, thank
you for all your rhymes.
[2:56:24] That was very good.
[2:56:27] Okay, now we're moving
along to deputations
[2:56:29] and presentations.
[2:56:31] And we're going to 7.1.
[2:56:34] And I'm going to ask Mr. Clerk,
[2:56:37] I don't know if you're
going to introduce this
[2:56:39] or who's going to introduce 7.1.
[2:56:45] - Thanks, Mr. Mayor.
[2:56:46] The first deputation
that we have before us
[2:56:48] is Lori Beech and Tom Richardson.
[2:56:50] They're here on behalf
of Community Land Trust,
[2:56:53] and they're going to present to council
[2:56:54] regarding the work they're
doing in the community.
[2:56:57] - Thank you. Welcome.
[2:57:06] - Oh, okay. Great.
[2:57:08] Thank you. Hello all. Many familiar faces.
[2:57:12] Nice to see all of you again.
[2:57:14] I'm the Executive Director of Second Story
[2:57:17] Community Homes and Services,
[2:57:20] which was formerly Bethlehem
Housing and Support Services.
[2:57:24] We've gone through a rebranding,
[2:57:25] but I am here representing
the Community Land Trust
[2:57:30] of Niagara, which is a
new initiative to Niagara.
[2:57:33] And I really appreciate
allowing us to be here today
[2:57:38] to present it to you as
one of the new and trending
[2:57:45] solutions across the country.
[2:57:46] And we're looking at it here in Niagara.
[2:57:49] And I have brought my friend,
[2:57:50] and many of you know my
colleague and friend,
[2:57:55] Tom Richardson, you will
recognize that man's face
[2:57:58] and his name.
[2:58:00] He sits on the board of the
Community Land Trust of Niagara.
[2:58:03] So it gives you an idea
of him being involved
[2:58:07] and how important it is to all of us.
[2:58:10] So what is a land trust?
[2:58:13] A land trust is by definition
a nonprofit corporation
[2:58:19] created to acquire and hold land
[2:58:22] for a community for
the community's benefit
[2:58:25] and to support in our case,
[2:58:30] affordable housing in perpetuity.
[2:58:33] Land trusts are used for a
variety of other purposes,
[2:58:35] but for the Community
Land Trust of Niagara,
[2:58:38] it is for the purpose of
affordable housing sustainability.
[2:58:43] There are as I mentioned,
[2:58:45] it's a solution trend across the country.
[2:58:48] This says 47.
[2:58:49] We think there's probably
closer to 50 at this point
[2:58:52] or more.
[2:58:53] There is a network of
community land trusts
[2:58:55] across the country, but they
are being recognized now
[2:58:58] as a solution for
communities as a mechanism
[2:59:04] for collaboration around
affordable housing development,
[2:59:09] but also acquisitions to
protect affordable rents.
[2:59:14] And so it's a collaborative opportunity
[2:59:17] to work with governments,
community groups, developers,
[2:59:21] financial institutions,
and any other stakeholders
[2:59:23] or partners that have an interest in
[2:59:27] and a stake in affordable housing.
[2:59:29] And it's not only to make
a housing affordable,
[2:59:33] but attainable as well.
[2:59:35] And those two things are similar
but different in some ways,
[2:59:40] but it's also to ensure that
housing is affordable forever.
[2:59:47] Why in Niagara?
[2:59:48] I don't have to tell any
of you the reasons why.
[2:59:51] We are in not only a housing crisis,
[2:59:54] but an affordability crisis.
[2:59:56] And we, of course, cannot
at this point in time
[3:00:02] build affordable housing on our own
[3:00:05] as housing organizations.
[3:00:07] We have to build partnerships.
[3:00:09] We have to create collaboratives
[3:00:11] that can work with governments,
government programs,
[3:00:15] the federal government
program, the new programs
[3:00:18] that you've heard about,
Build Canada Homes,
[3:00:19] are not better or easier.
[3:00:23] They are complex because it
requires mobilizing capital
[3:00:28] and creating very complex
financial structures.
[3:00:31] So we as housing organizations
don't necessarily have
[3:00:34] the capacity to do that.
[3:00:36] That's where the land trust comes in,
[3:00:37] to be able to collaborate together
[3:00:40] and as a sort of a real
estate development group
[3:00:45] and collaborative and to
build financial structures
[3:00:49] so that we can participate
in those federal programs
[3:00:52] and other financial
programs to build housing.
[3:00:58] As you all know, again, I
don't have to tell you this,
[3:01:00] rent prices are well
up six percent in 2022.
[3:01:05] They've come down a bit, but
they're still extremely high.
[3:01:11] And current listings for an
average of for a two bedroom
[3:01:14] is up in the area of 1,800, 2,200.
[3:01:20] We all know, absolutely unaffordable.
[3:01:21] And some of you probably
have children at home
[3:01:24] that are adults that
should be on their own
[3:01:27] and can't afford to.
[3:01:28] So this affects not only
just the most vulnerable
[3:01:31] and lower income of our community anymore,
[3:01:34] it's affecting everyone.
[3:01:37] This is just a slide that
says a little bit about
[3:01:40] the wait list, which again, you all know.
[3:01:43] But the reason I put that in here
[3:01:45] is because it demonstrates to you
[3:01:48] that Niagara Regional Housing services
[3:01:53] the Niagara region is still
and continues to experience
[3:01:57] long wait lists.
[3:01:58] And that is partially because of...
[3:02:01] It's very largely because
of the some of the folks
[3:02:05] who have lived in Niagara Regional Housing
[3:02:07] for a very long time have
reached their maximum
[3:02:10] and have reached income levels,
but they have nowhere to go.
[3:02:14] So they're still in Niagara
Regional Housing units.
[3:02:17] So the region is very
interested in what we can do
[3:02:20] as a land trust to acquire buildings
[3:02:24] and work on development projects
[3:02:27] that meet that middle, not social housing,
[3:02:31] not deeply affordable necessarily.
[3:02:34] That's left to the region
[3:02:37] and community housing
organizations like ourselves.
[3:02:40] But the land trust is very
focused on what we call
[3:02:43] the missing middle, or that low market,
[3:02:45] non-market next level up.
[3:02:48] So that's where our interest lies.
[3:02:55] So as our vision and mission,
[3:02:57] it's about increasing
the supply of accessible,
[3:03:00] affordable, sustainable housing,
[3:03:03] and we do that through
acquiring and holding land
[3:03:07] and buildings in Niagara for the purpose
[3:03:10] of providing affordable housing.
[3:03:12] And it means, again, that we can support
[3:03:18] housing affordability in perpetuity,
[3:03:22] because that's the meaning of a trust.
[3:03:25] As I mentioned, our esteemed
colleague here, Tom Richardson,
[3:03:29] is one of our board members.
[3:03:30] And we like to say that we've formed
[3:03:35] a Blue Ribbon Committee on
our board that I like to say
[3:03:40] there are a lot of big
brains around the table
[3:03:42] that are very focused on this topic
[3:03:47] and housing in a variety of ways.
[3:03:49] We have Caleb Ratzlaff,
[3:03:50] is a councillor in City of St. Catharines.
[3:03:55] Myself, and we have
indigenous representation
[3:03:57] through Sarah Lukaszczyk.
[3:04:00] And some planners, accountants,
[3:04:02] and some of you that you, you
again, you would recognize
[3:04:06] their names and real estate developers.
[3:04:09] Also some others that are, for example
[3:04:16] Joanne Heritz, who is a
professor at Brock University
[3:04:19] looking at doing research on land trusts
[3:04:22] and what that looks like
[3:04:23] and the impact that we
would have here in Niagara.
[3:04:26] Our goals, very simple,
build, acquire, and support.
[3:04:31] So build new housing to add to the stock,
[3:04:33] acquire buildings and housing that exists
[3:04:38] to protect low rents
and prevent renovictions
[3:04:42] and support the housing organizations
[3:04:44] that we have already in Niagara.
[3:04:46] We're not here to create a
new housing organization.
[3:04:49] We're here to support the
ones that we already have.
[3:04:52] So for just a quick example,
[3:04:54] the land trust would own
the land and the property,
[3:04:57] perhaps do the building, do the acquiring,
[3:04:59] but the housing organizations
in the community
[3:05:01] such as ourselves and others
like the Y, like Gateway,
[3:05:04] they would operate the housing.
[3:05:06] So they are our partners as well.
[3:05:10] Now, the complexity of a trust
[3:05:12] includes the opportunity
to attract investment.
[3:05:17] As I mentioned, and I won't
get into details today,
[3:05:19] but I'm happy to answer
questions or of course,
[3:05:22] this is just an awareness
opportunity today.
[3:05:24] We can certainly take other
questions and talk about
[3:05:29] the complexities of a land
trust that includes fundraising,
[3:05:35] government programs,
equity collaboratives.
[3:05:38] Where we will share equity
to leverage the purchase
[3:05:42] or development through
again, financial structures.
[3:05:46] Do community bond calls, and again,
[3:05:51] attract social impact investors.
[3:05:53] So all that is within and that's the work
[3:05:55] that we've been doing over
the last couple of years,
[3:05:57] is building those structures.
[3:06:00] And that just gives us the
opportunity to respond to again,
[3:06:05] provide those complex deals
[3:06:08] that we need to build
housing and acquire housing.
[3:06:12] We have a first project
in the City of Welland.
[3:06:16] City of Welland has donated two properties
[3:06:19] to our first project on Crowther Avenue.
[3:06:22] And again, just not getting
into too much detail,
[3:06:26] but it will be 83 units altogether.
[3:06:29] 40 units are for the land trust.
[3:06:31] They have donated the land for $3.
[3:06:35] And also provided grants
through their CIP program.
[3:06:39] So altogether, it's close
to $2 million contribution
[3:06:42] to our first project.
[3:06:48] And these are just all
the partners involved.
[3:06:51] Again, these kinds of
opportunities to develop
[3:06:55] affordable housing requires
a lot of partnerships.
[3:06:58] Again, a lot of big brains at the table,
[3:07:02] and those who can contribute.
[3:07:06] One I would like to point out
[3:07:07] is Niagara Community Foundation.
[3:07:09] We've worked with them to not only,
[3:07:12] they've given us an operating grant,
[3:07:15] but also a commitment towards
investments in each project
[3:07:20] towards soft costs and seed cost.
[3:07:27] I think I've probably
gone by my five minutes,
[3:07:31] but that was really hard for me,
[3:07:33] but when it comes to
housing I can talk a lot
[3:07:37] and for a very long time,
as some of you know.
[3:07:39] But thank you very much for
allowing us to be here today.
[3:07:42] - So we have a couple questions Lori.
[3:07:43] So I got Councillor Lococo,
Patel, and Nieuwesteeg.
[3:07:48] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Through the Mayor to Ms. Beech.
[3:07:49] Thank you so much for attending.
[3:07:51] I saw a video about three years ago
[3:07:54] from Councillor Ratzlaff,
and this really intrigued me,
[3:07:57] and I've always had it
in the back of my mind.
[3:08:00] So I just want to review what Welland did.
[3:08:02] So they have 83 units.
[3:08:06] And what was the investment from Welland?
[3:08:09] You said $2 million, but
how did that break down?
[3:08:12] How did that go?
[3:08:14] - Okay. It's the contribution of land.
[3:08:16] It's green space, so it's green fields
[3:08:19] and it's surplus property
that they have available.
[3:08:24] And they've contributed land
to other projects as well.
[3:08:28] The Hope Centre, Gateway, and ourselves,
[3:08:32] as well as the land trust.
[3:08:34] And in this case, they have
as I mentioned contributed
[3:08:39] the surplus land to purchase for $3.
[3:08:44] - Through the mayor,
so in addition to that,
[3:08:46] is there an operating grant?
[3:08:47] - That's right. That's right.
[3:08:48] So in addition to through
their CIP programs
[3:08:52] and other opportunities they
have an affordable housing
[3:08:56] committee, the advisory
committee to the council.
[3:08:58] And so everything is vetted through them,
[3:09:01] and then they were able to recommend
[3:09:03] that we receive other grants.
[3:09:06] So they have several
different grants available
[3:09:09] for affordable housing development
incentives, exemptions,
[3:09:13] property tax exemptions, and
development charge waivers,
[3:09:17] plus operating grants for five years.
[3:09:20] - So for a two million dollar
investment of 83 units,
[3:09:23] that's quite a return on
that two million dollars?
[3:09:26] - It certainly is.
[3:09:27] - Okay, I'll go back to that later on.
[3:09:29] How large of a piece of
a land would you need
[3:09:31] for a project like this?
[3:09:35] - We can work on any size of piece of land
[3:09:36] from an acre to three or four.
[3:09:39] This one happens to be almost four acres
[3:09:42] the one in Welland.
[3:09:43] - And how would the best way
for the City of Niagara Falls
[3:09:48] for us to support a project like this?
[3:09:50] What would you be looking for from us?
[3:09:52] How could we support you?
[3:09:54] - Something similar. Such
as land and surplus land.
[3:09:59] We hope to, we are going to be working
[3:10:02] with all the municipalities
[3:10:03] because all municipalities
have surplus land.
[3:10:06] And we would hope that city councils
[3:10:11] would see that as an opportunity
to contribute towards
[3:10:15] affordable housing development.
[3:10:17] And so that is certainly is one.
[3:10:18] And of course, I know you're
working on your CIP program
[3:10:22] and to build in the
incentives that we need
[3:10:24] to work together on solving this crisis.
[3:10:27] - Good. Thank you very much.
[3:10:28] And my last question for the,
[3:10:33] sorry, I've just lost my train of thought.
[3:10:41] For the two million dollars
[3:10:43] that was contributed into Welland,
[3:10:46] if we look at something similar to that,
[3:10:49] how fast does this project go?
[3:10:52] How long did it take for
an 83 unit to be built?
[3:10:58] What kind of timeline?
[3:10:59] - Okay. In all honesty, it's not built.
[3:11:01] It's just the beginning.
This is our first project.
[3:11:05] But what that does,
[3:11:08] again, without getting
into too much detail,
[3:11:10] the new programs through Build
Canada Homes, as I mentioned,
[3:11:13] are very complex.
[3:11:15] They are not like CMHC,
which is the previous
[3:11:21] federal housing programs.
[3:11:22] They are not the primary lender.
[3:11:25] They are the last.
[3:11:26] They are looking through their
goals to mobilize capital
[3:11:31] in the community,
[3:11:32] contributions through
municipal governments,
[3:11:34] in our case regional government,
as well as private sector.
[3:11:38] So that's what I meant by
very complex structured deals.
[3:11:42] And so these opportunities
to provide surplus lands
[3:11:48] plus grants are necessary
if you want to be a part of,
[3:11:54] and provide affordable housing
solutions in your community.
[3:11:58] This is the new world.
It's transformational.
[3:12:01] It is the way it is.
[3:12:03] Build Canada Homes and
the federal government
[3:12:06] are now the last mile.
[3:12:08] So we must all work together
to make these projects happen.
[3:12:15] - Okay. Thank you. I
remembered my question.
[3:12:17] When you're looking for land,
does it need to be serviceable
[3:12:21] and land ready, shovel
ready to move forward?
[3:12:24] - If you want to participate
[3:12:25] in the federal programs, absolutely.
[3:12:27] They're looking for
shovel-ready lands, de-risked,
[3:12:30] and ready to go.
[3:12:32] - Okay. Thank you.
[3:12:33] I when everyone has had a chance to speak,
[3:12:36] I'd like to put a motion forward
to accept the presentation
[3:12:39] and that our staff look into
it later on down the road.
[3:12:42] - Sounds good. You got in just
under your five-minute limit.
[3:12:45] Perfect timing. Okay.
[3:12:46] Councillor Patel, Nieuwesteeg. Dabrowski.
[3:12:49] - Thank you, Lori, for your presentation.
[3:12:51] And I want to thank everybody
who sits on the board
[3:12:52] who does this important work
actually in our community.
[3:12:56] My question is most of
my questions were asked
[3:12:58] by Councillor Lococo, so
I got most of the answers.
[3:13:01] One thing is, for example,
when you get the land
[3:13:03] as a donation, how long does it take
[3:13:05] for you to bring all the
stakeholders together
[3:13:09] to get some project like this going?
[3:13:11] Like in Welland you're doing
your first project right there.
[3:13:13] So how long does it take for you?
[3:13:15] - Thank you for asking that question.
[3:13:17] I'll go back to as well.
[3:13:19] Councillor Lococo had
asked how long it takes.
[3:13:24] These projects always take time.
[3:13:26] And they do require a lot of partnerships.
[3:13:29] So from the shovel ready,
we are in the process
[3:13:32] still with the Welland Project
with Build Canada Homes.
[3:13:37] We've had three meetings with them,
[3:13:39] but it's an iterative process.
[3:13:40] It's a back and forth continuously.
[3:13:42] Then they ask us to go back
and get this contribution,
[3:13:45] find that contribution.
[3:13:47] They're looking for contributions
towards the capital,
[3:13:50] develop capital construction stack.
[3:13:53] And so these things take time
and there's nothing guaranteed
[3:13:57] because they are not
providing the funding upfront
[3:14:00] even for supportive housing.
[3:14:02] It all has to be financed.
[3:14:04] So these things do take time,
[3:14:06] but once those approvals take place,
[3:14:09] the other thing that Build
Canada Homes is looking for,
[3:14:11] is modern methods of construction.
[3:14:13] So we've had to look
at those opportunities
[3:14:16] and those levers for a project
[3:14:18] because they're looking for that as well.
[3:14:19] So it's a tall order that
the federal government
[3:14:22] is looking for.
[3:14:23] So again, we have to have
construction partners
[3:14:27] that are looking at modern
methods of construction
[3:14:30] that can help save time and save costs.
[3:14:32] Primarily right now, not
so much cost, but time.
[3:14:36] So that helps to, once you
have a project ready to go,
[3:14:39] you can see a project be
completed within 18 months.
[3:14:44] - Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:14:45] If you're one partner all in,
[3:14:47] for example, city with their CIP grants
[3:14:49] and maybe donation of the land.
[3:14:51] If you're one partner all in,
[3:14:53] it's easier to attract other people.
[3:14:55] - That's right. That's right.
It's not any one partner.
[3:14:58] So land is just the start.
[3:15:00] - Okay. Yeah, you're right.
[3:15:02] It has to start somewhere, right?
[3:15:03] - That's right. We can't do anything.
[3:15:05] We can't communicate with
the federal government
[3:15:07] if we don't have a piece
of land that's ready to go.
[3:15:10] - And just the one last
question is the Welland project.
[3:15:13] So who will be managing the project?
[3:15:15] I know you said YMCA,
[3:15:16] but would that be run through
Niagara Regional Housing?
[3:15:19] And how would they pick the
tenant who's going to get there?
[3:15:22] - Thank you for asking that question.
[3:15:25] So as I mentioned in my presentation,
[3:15:28] the Land Trust will own the land.
[3:15:30] A community housing organization
will operate the project.
[3:15:33] So that's going to be us in this case.
[3:15:35] But I mentioned the others
because in future opportunities,
[3:15:40] they could be the partners
as well to operate
[3:15:43] the housing side of things, so.
[3:15:45] - Thank you.
- Okay.
[3:15:46] - Thank you. Councillor Nieuwesteeg.
[3:15:49] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:15:50] Thank you for the presentation,
[3:15:51] the great work that you do,
[3:15:52] but I'm looking for some clarity.
[3:15:54] So, I understand Niagara Regional Housing
[3:15:57] is responsible for housing.
[3:15:59] So what gap or what problem
are you coming in to solve
[3:16:03] that they, in my opinion, that
should be their mandate here?
[3:16:07] So obviously there's a gap
that's opened the opportunity
[3:16:10] or that you've recognized and
said we need to fill that.
[3:16:13] So if you can just help me to understand
[3:16:16] why are we not solving this
and how can we count on you
[3:16:19] to solve this issue that
we're faced with today?
[3:16:23] - Okay, and if it's okay,
I will provide clarity
[3:16:27] to correct you just a little bit.
[3:16:29] Niagara Regional Housing is
responsible for social housing,
[3:16:33] government housing,
deeply affordable housing
[3:16:37] and supportive housing
that meets the needs
[3:16:41] of very low income or vulnerable or people
[3:16:47] with a variety of challenges
through homelessness services.
[3:16:56] But, there's a housing continuum.
[3:16:57] Are you familiar with
the housing continuum
[3:16:59] that starts with crisis,
supportive and transitional?
[3:17:05] We have a whole bunch of
subcategories in there now
[3:17:07] that start at non-market, low
market, affordable housing.
[3:17:14] Some of that housing is supportive
[3:17:16] which is the type of
housing that we provide,
[3:17:18] but it's at that not
what we call non-market,
[3:17:21] but not deeply affordable.
[3:17:23] So there's a variety of
levels of affordability.
[3:17:26] And so others are
responsible for that level.
[3:17:30] So Niagara Regional Housing
also provides housing programs.
[3:17:34] So rent subsidy programs,
[3:17:36] housing allowances, housing benefits.
[3:17:38] They administer all of that,
but also in partnership
[3:17:41] with community housing
organizations like ours
[3:17:44] to provide housing for the
more vulnerable, lower income.
[3:17:48] Where what we're talking about here
[3:17:51] is that next stage or that next
level of rents and incomes.
[3:17:58] So that we call it the,
sort of that missing middle
[3:18:01] because that's the piece that's missing.
[3:18:04] It's the type of housing that, again,
[3:18:07] your adult children are
not getting access to
[3:18:11] because it's not affordable.
[3:18:13] So the more we have,
the more stock we have,
[3:18:16] the more protections we can
provide for lower rents.
[3:18:23] That through pure economics
just drives the rents down
[3:18:27] or stabilizes them.
[3:18:29] But we are able to,
through those partnerships,
[3:18:33] through driving capital
cost of development down,
[3:18:36] we can offer those low rents.
[3:18:39] But it's a game of math.
[3:18:41] It has to be lower the
capital development costs,
[3:18:44] so that the service
costs, the operating costs
[3:18:47] can be managed at low rents,
[3:18:49] so low revenues to
operate those buildings.
[3:18:52] Again, it gets pretty complex.
[3:18:54] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:18:55] - Does that help you?
[3:18:56] - It absolutely does.
[3:18:56] - Okay.
- Next question.
[3:18:58] So is there a time limit that the...
[3:19:00] So it sounds like you're a
bridge program to helping people
[3:19:03] get to that next step.
[3:19:04] Is there a time limit that when
you evaluate who is eligible
[3:19:08] to rent in one of these,
[3:19:10] or is that one of the
agencies that will be?
[3:19:12] - So eligibility, there's
different ways and means,
[3:19:16] and I know that was part of
Councillor Patel's question
[3:19:19] as well.
[3:19:20] Again, that's complex.
[3:19:21] So for example social
housing or housing available
[3:19:27] through the region is
through their wait list,
[3:19:31] which is what the one I put up there.
[3:19:32] Where we, as housing organizations
that provide non-market
[3:19:37] and lower rent or supportive housing
[3:19:39] or transitional housing, we
work with and in partnership
[3:19:42] with the Niagara Regional Housing Services
[3:19:45] and the homelessness services
[3:19:47] to house those more vulnerable folks,
[3:19:49] access and advocate for rent subsidies.
[3:19:54] And so, and yes, those things do take,
[3:19:57] but that's all part of
what we do as operators.
[3:20:02] Absolutely, but there
would be kind of a time.
[3:20:04] So if you're helping, you
know, that you're talking,
[3:20:07] you referenced adult children.
[3:20:08] So you're helping them until
they can get on their feet.
[3:20:10] - Right. But there's
no time limit to that.
[3:20:14] So things like social
housing, government housing,
[3:20:18] that's supposed to be temporary
[3:20:21] until affordability can be reached.
[3:20:24] Same with transitional housing,
[3:20:27] community government nonprofit housing.
[3:20:30] Some of those housing programs
have time limits on them.
[3:20:33] But what we're talking about
[3:20:35] is permanent affordable housing.
[3:20:37] So that just, you know, the
natural course of things
[3:20:41] where people move in and
move out on their own.
[3:20:43] - And through you, Mr.
Mayor, thank you for the-
[3:20:44] - I hope that helped.
- Because this is
[3:20:45] a unique project we haven't seen.
[3:20:47] And, so I just want to understand.
[3:20:49] - Oh, we need new initiatives.
[3:20:50] - Yeah. No, very, very good.
And thank you for that.
[3:20:53] - Again, through you, Mayor,
thank you very, very much.
[3:20:55] - We have one more.
[3:20:56] - Oh, I'm sorry. Okay.
[3:20:57] - We've got, and just made it. Okay.
[3:20:59] - All right.
- Councillor Dabrowski.
[3:21:00] - [Chris] Yeah. Thank you for
your presentation through you.
[3:21:02] I'm trying to understand how we turn this
[3:21:04] from a concept into
actual affordable units.
[3:21:07] - That's what we're working on.
[3:21:08] - What are you asking from
our municipality specifically?
[3:21:12] And realistically, with that,
[3:21:15] how many affordable housing units
[3:21:16] do you think that could produce?
[3:21:18] And then my second question,
[3:21:19] do you work with Habitat for Humanity
[3:21:21] or with them or for them?
[3:21:23] But if you can help me understand that
[3:21:25] and give me some insight.
[3:21:26] Councillor Lococo mentioned
she'll bring forward
[3:21:28] a motion that might
help me with some ideas
[3:21:31] on whether or not I could support it.
[3:21:33] But I think it's a great concept.
[3:21:34] I'm just trying to understand
how as a municipality,
[3:21:36] how it fits with our current model.
[3:21:38] - Okay. I'll try to unpack.
[3:21:41] I think I heard two questions in there.
[3:21:43] So make sure I don't forget the-
[3:21:45] - What are you specifically.
[3:21:46] I know it's an awareness presentation.
[3:21:48] But what are you looking for from us?
[3:21:50] And what will that in turn produce
[3:21:53] in terms of units of affordable housing?
[3:21:57] - Sky's the limit.
[3:21:58] But having said that land is
what we would like to partner
[3:22:04] with the municipality on.
[3:22:06] And that's not today. That's
not an answer for today.
[3:22:09] But we hope that today is about awareness
[3:22:12] and about being able to move forward.
[3:22:15] I know there's an election and
there's things will change.
[3:22:18] But today is about getting
our information out there
[3:22:22] to all of you and providing clarity,
[3:22:25] providing understanding, and a bit of hope
[3:22:30] about an opportunity going forward.
[3:22:33] We at the Land Trust have been working
[3:22:34] for the last couple of years
to establish the organization.
[3:22:38] It's an incorporated
not-for-profit organization
[3:22:42] with a well-established board
at this point of, as I said,
[3:22:46] very good representation.
[3:22:49] We've been spending a
lot of time learning.
[3:22:51] It takes time to develop all this,
[3:22:53] but we want to have
projects at the same time.
[3:22:56] So once you have land, as I
mentioned, it does take time.
[3:23:01] Whether it's one acre.
[3:23:04] I have a building that's
on one acre of land
[3:23:05] and has 127 units.
[3:23:08] So I think you know that we're, you know,
[3:23:11] it's always a good interest to a good idea
[3:23:13] to build up so that we
can maximize the use
[3:23:17] of a piece of land.
[3:23:18] So really, we're open to
exploring with you as a partner.
[3:23:24] And that's what we're
looking for. Habitat?
[3:23:28] Habitat for Humanity are our partners.
[3:23:31] In terms of not exactly
working with us in the...
[3:23:34] But they're our partners
in the service system.
[3:23:36] And we all work together.
[3:23:39] Mark, the ED is actually...
[3:23:43] We've been talking to him about being
[3:23:44] a part of the land trust,
[3:23:46] and they're just trying to
figure it out at this point.
[3:23:48] They're about affordable home ownership.
[3:23:50] So that's that continuum that I mentioned
[3:23:52] that has all those
sub-sectors all the way along.
[3:23:56] And they're all about home ownership,
[3:23:58] which we're all about too.
[3:24:00] But we haven't delved into that part.
[3:24:02] Our mission right now is about the missing
[3:24:05] middle affordable rental.
[3:24:06] - Okay. Thank you. Okay.
- Does that help?
[3:24:09] Does that answer your question? Thank you.
[3:24:11] - Any other questions
or comments of council?
[3:24:14] So we'll go to Councillor Lococo.
[3:24:15] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:24:16] The motion I would put
forward is that we received
[3:24:19] the report and that staff
work with the land trust
[3:24:24] to discuss opportunities
for this type of build.
[3:24:29] What kind of land we could offer.
[3:24:32] I know in the past we've been
going through all of our land,
[3:24:35] so I think we're already close to that.
[3:24:37] So that would be the motion
[3:24:39] that we just have that
information and bring it back
[3:24:41] to the next term of council.
[3:24:42] - Okay. So I got Councillor
Patel, you're seconding it.
[3:24:46] Do you want to speak to the
motion Councillor Dabrowski?
[3:24:48] - Back to my question.
What does it mean for us?
[3:24:50] How many affordable
units will that produce?
[3:24:53] So if we can include that
as part of the motion.
[3:24:54] I'm sure it's part of
the planning research.
[3:24:56] - That was part of what I.
[3:24:56] Yeah, that's part of the planning research
[3:24:57] - I just want to make sure.
[3:24:58] And again, I was going
back to the investment.
[3:25:00] If you get $2 million for
83 units like Welland did,
[3:25:04] that's a huge investment in
comparison to giving $2 million
[3:25:08] maybe to a different type of program
[3:25:09] and you might get 15 units.
[3:25:11] So that's part of the opportunity
to research. Thank you.
[3:25:17] - And then we just ask that you
consider that. That's great.
[3:25:20] - In the past, we've given
land to Habitat for Humanity
[3:25:22] as well to build units.
[3:25:23] So I mean, it's a practice
we've followed for many years.
[3:25:27] So if there's no further
questions or comments,
[3:25:28] we'll call the vote.
[3:25:29] All those in favor.
[3:25:30] Okay. And that's unanimous.
[3:25:31] Thank you very much, Lori.
[3:25:32] Thank you very much, Tom, for being here.
[3:25:34] The legal living legend. He came with you.
[3:25:37] That's good. Thank you for being here.
[3:25:39] - Thank you so much. Thank you.
[3:25:41] - Thank you very much.
[3:25:43] So Mr. Clerk, I see
Pathstone's on the agenda,
[3:25:46] but I don't know if we have.
[3:25:48] Oh, is Sean here?
[3:25:50] - [Council Member] No. He's not.
[3:25:51] - Oh, okay. Sean's not here.
[3:25:52] All right. Well, then step right up.
[3:25:56] So we had him on the agenda
speaking. So we've got Marla.
[3:25:59] Actually, I shouldn't say who it is.
[3:26:00] I'm guessing Marla and Ken or?
[3:26:03] - You got Marla and Ken. Yes.
[3:26:04] - Marla and Ken, okay.
[3:26:05] So if you want to introduce yourselves
[3:26:07] and we try to keep it to five minutes.
[3:26:09] - Thank you, yeah.
[3:26:11] Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:26:11] Thank you members of council
for having us here today.
[3:26:15] We very much appreciate the opportunity
[3:26:17] to come and speak to you, to
tell you about the good work
[3:26:19] that Pathstone's doing,
[3:26:21] and talk about a partnership opportunity
[3:26:23] that you're already working on
[3:26:24] with the Willoughby
Chippawa Community Centre
[3:26:28] that's taking place.
[3:26:29] So I'm going to let my colleague, Ken,
[3:26:32] tell you a little bit about Pathstone
[3:26:34] to familiarize yourself.
[3:26:38] - Good morning, mayor, members
of council. I'm Ken Chan.
[3:26:41] I have been on the Pathstone
Foundation Board since 2021,
[3:26:44] and I chaired the governance committee.
[3:26:47] What we are seeking today
is your support in principle
[3:26:50] for development of a new
Pathstone Mental Health Campus
[3:26:53] of Care at the Chippawa Willoughby site.
[3:26:56] We're not asking for any funding
as any future requirements
[3:27:02] will be done through fundraising
[3:27:04] for both our capital and operating costs.
[3:27:07] Just a quick overview
in terms of who we are.
[3:27:09] For over 50 years, Pathstone Mental Health
[3:27:12] has been providing much
needed compassionate
[3:27:14] mental health support
for children and youth
[3:27:16] across the region, including
here in Niagara Falls.
[3:27:19] And as a member of the board
with Pathstone Foundation,
[3:27:22] we are very privileged and
honored to be raising the funds
[3:27:25] to enable the care that's much needed
[3:27:28] as well as supporting spaces
where care is delivered.
[3:27:32] I'll turn over to Marla,
[3:27:34] to speak a bit more about the trends.
[3:27:37] - Yeah, so like Ken mentioned,
for more than 50 years,
[3:27:40] Pathstone's been supporting
children and youth
[3:27:42] with mental health
supports across Niagara.
[3:27:45] 15 years ago, that looked
like 300 kids approximately
[3:27:49] from the Niagara community.
[3:27:51] Where we are today, we're,
you know, around 850 kids
[3:27:54] and projections for us into
2035 bring us to 13,000 kids.
[3:28:00] And I know that you know the intricacies
[3:28:02] of your city the best,
[3:28:03] and you're familiar with the growing needs
[3:28:06] and different types of people
[3:28:07] that are coming to the community.
[3:28:09] And so that's why we see
this as an important step
[3:28:13] for us moving forward.
[3:28:15] The other thing that we really notice
[3:28:17] is that the biggest barrier to families,
[3:28:21] especially specifically
in the Niagara region,
[3:28:24] to participating in care is transportation
[3:28:27] and where location and
services are being offered.
[3:28:31] Currently, we have our main
location in St. Catharines,
[3:28:35] but we do not have a
location in Niagara Falls.
[3:28:38] And because of that, we
are seeing a 17% decline
[3:28:42] in cancellation and no-show
rates from residents
[3:28:45] in the Niagara Falls community.
[3:28:47] And what that really
means is those individuals
[3:28:50] don't have access to the care.
[3:28:52] They're not getting that access.
[3:28:54] And there are many reasons
why that's taking place.
[3:28:57] One, we know barriers to transportation.
[3:28:59] We know that managing, being
able to get to and from
[3:29:04] appointments is difficult and complex.
[3:29:07] And so we really want to have a solution
[3:29:09] to be able to address, one,
the growing needs of children
[3:29:12] and families in Niagara Falls,
[3:29:15] as well as being able to
say we're delivering support
[3:29:19] in a community organization.
[3:29:25] Oh, this is me.
[3:29:29] So this is where we think the opportunity
[3:29:32] really becomes exciting.
[3:29:33] The city is already making
an investment in creating
[3:29:36] a community hub where families
will come for recreation,
[3:29:40] learning and community programming.
[3:29:42] We believe children's
mental health belongs
[3:29:44] in that conversation.
[3:29:46] Imagine a community where a
family doesn't have to navigate
[3:29:49] a series of disconnected
systems to get the support
[3:29:52] that they need.
[3:29:54] Instead, within one community destination,
[3:29:57] there can be recreation,
learning, community programming,
[3:30:02] and dedication to children's
mental health services.
[3:30:06] Pathstone can provide counselling,
walk-in mental health,
[3:30:09] outreach, family supports
all in one environment.
[3:30:13] And there's something else
that's very important.
[3:30:15] It normalizes mental health.
[3:30:18] A child doesn't have to
feel like they're being sent
[3:30:20] to a separate building or stigmatized
[3:30:23] because they need help.
[3:30:25] Mental health becomes
part of the community.
[3:30:28] It becomes part of the same
conversation as physical health,
[3:30:32] recreation, education,
and family wellness.
[3:30:36] That message for children and
families and strategically,
[3:30:40] it creates an opportunity
for collaboration.
[3:30:44] Pathstone doesn't need to
duplicate what's happening
[3:30:46] in the community, we can be
a part of the same ecosystem.
[3:30:52] - Thank you, Marla.
[3:30:52] And what you see there's a rendering
[3:30:54] of the proposed building.
[3:30:55] I know it's still early
days and as a board,
[3:30:59] we believe that once we get a signal
[3:31:02] in terms of whether or
not this is a possibility,
[3:31:03] and then we'll begin the due diligence,
[3:31:05] including working with Sean and Marla
[3:31:07] on the fundraising initiative.
[3:31:09] So really we're here today
[3:31:11] to see if there's opportunity
for us to work with you
[3:31:15] on creating a legacy project.
[3:31:17] The benefits for the
City of Niagara Falls,
[3:31:18] including stronger health
and social infrastructure,
[3:31:22] better access for Niagara Falls families,
[3:31:24] and a long-term community
asset that will remain
[3:31:27] for the community for years to come.
[3:31:29] With that, we'll stop there
and take any questions.
[3:31:32] Thank you.
[3:31:33] - Great. Thank you.
[3:31:34] First, we've got Councillor Nieuwesteeg
[3:31:35] and then Councillor Lococo.
[3:31:39] - Actually, mine's not so much
a question, but a comment.
[3:31:42] Do you want to have a
question first, or? Okay.
[3:31:44] - So we don't have a...
[3:31:46] Are there any questions
of the presenters first?
[3:31:47] Okay, Councillor Patel.
Okay, we'll go to you.
[3:31:50] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor,
and thank you Marla,
[3:31:51] and thank you, Ken, for presentation.
[3:31:53] I have a question that, you
know, lots of insurances
[3:31:56] do cover certain I think
sessions for family members.
[3:32:01] And lots of time when young
kids are seeking help,
[3:32:04] parents have a hard time trusting certain
[3:32:07] you know service providers.
[3:32:09] Have you ever thought of the hybrid model
[3:32:11] that will Pathstone will ever
integrate in a hybrid model
[3:32:13] where you can have paid and
a free system altogether?
[3:32:18] - So Pathstone doesn't operate
on a fee for service model.
[3:32:21] We do get support from the
Ministry of Social Services
[3:32:25] and Health to be able to
deliver that programming
[3:32:28] free of charge.
[3:32:30] - What I mean, have you ever
thought of doing a hybrid ever,
[3:32:33] like, you know, for somebody who wants to?
[3:32:36] (speaks faintly) Slim picking.
[3:32:37] If you think about you
know, youth counseling,
[3:32:39] there's very little that you can get.
[3:32:42] - Yeah, so that isn't a part of the plans
[3:32:46] moving forward.
[3:32:47] - Okay thank you.
[3:32:48] - Okay, thank you.
[3:32:49] So if there's no further questions,
[3:32:51] maybe we can get a motion.
[3:32:53] Someone want to make one?
[3:32:53] Councillor Nieuwesteeg and
then Councillor Lococo.
[3:32:57] So you can may move to
receive the presentation
[3:33:00] and then maybe speak to it now.
[3:33:02] - Yes, I have a motion,
but prior to my motion,
[3:33:04] I just want to speak to-
[3:33:06] - You said you have a motion?
[3:33:07] - I do have a motion.
[3:33:08] - So let's put that on the floor.
[3:33:10] And then we can speak to it.
[3:33:10] - All right. Very good.
[3:33:12] Okay, so I'm pleased to bring forward
[3:33:14] a motion asking council
to endorse in principle
[3:33:16] the inclusion of Pathstone Mental Health
[3:33:18] within the Chippawa
Willoughby Community Centre.
[3:33:22] This is an opportunity
to bring an essential
[3:33:24] children's mental health service
directly into our community
[3:33:27] and alongside the recreation,
[3:33:28] library and community service
[3:33:30] that is being planned for
this important development.
[3:33:33] Pathstone's not asking the
taxpayers of Niagara Falls
[3:33:36] to fund this project.
[3:33:37] Pathstone Foundation intends to raise
[3:33:39] the necessary philanthropic
funding to develop
[3:33:41] and equip the space.
[3:33:43] What we are asking for
today is an endorsement
[3:33:45] of principle and an
opportunity to continue working
[3:33:47] with the city staff to determine
whether approximately 6,000
[3:33:50] square feet dedicate
children's mental health space
[3:33:53] can be incorporated into the project.
[3:33:55] This endorsement does not
commit the city to funding,
[3:33:57] construction, or lease
of any future agreement.
[3:34:00] Those matters would come back
to council for consideration
[3:34:03] as the partnership develops.
[3:34:04] What we're asking council to do today
[3:34:06] is recognize the importance
of children's mental health
[3:34:08] to our community and give
Pathstone and the city
[3:34:10] opportunity to work together
to make this vision a reality.
[3:34:15] - Okay, great. And also to
receive the presentation.
[3:34:17] - And to receive the presentation.
[3:34:19] - Second by Councillor Lococo.
[3:34:20] Okay, great.
[3:34:21] And I do want to speak to it.
[3:34:22] - Yeah, go ahead.
[3:34:24] - Why I'm very passionate about this
[3:34:25] and I'm really excited
that Pathstone's doing it.
[3:34:28] What we're seeing on our streets today
[3:34:30] is very heartbreaking.
[3:34:31] We see drug addiction,
homelessness, and mental health.
[3:34:35] And we've been around
this table so many times
[3:34:37] with so many presentations
asking what we can do
[3:34:40] because it is absolutely
disturbing and heartbreaking.
[3:34:43] And there is no solution.
We do not see a solution.
[3:34:46] The only thing that can
come close to a solution
[3:34:48] would be prevention.
[3:34:49] And that's what I'm seeing here
[3:34:50] is that we're looking at
investing in prevention.
[3:34:54] And why I like the Chippawa arena
[3:34:58] I believe children mental health services
[3:35:00] belong in the heart of the community.
[3:35:01] And I believe that the
children's mental health
[3:35:04] or Willoughby's Community
Centre is ideal for that.
[3:35:07] In discussions, I'm part of this group,
[3:35:09] so that's why I'm speaking to it.
[3:35:12] We looked at where we could have it.
[3:35:14] And at the first site was to
have it on a very busy road
[3:35:19] and more like an institution.
[3:35:20] And the community did not
feel strong about that.
[3:35:23] It was, again, bringing in that stigma.
[3:35:25] And we want children and
families to feel comfortable.
[3:35:28] And the more we can de-stigmatize
[3:35:30] and make it part of natural
wellbeing, hopefully,
[3:35:33] hopefully this is one part of the solution
[3:35:36] that we no longer see and
will not see in the future.
[3:35:39] Children, people living on
the streets like they are.
[3:35:42] So anything we can do to support this
[3:35:45] as a preventative measure,
[3:35:46] I think it's a step in the
right direction for prevention.
[3:35:50] A step for compassion, a
step for Niagara Falls.
[3:35:53] So I'm very pleased to support this.
[3:35:57] - Thank you for that, Councillor.
[3:35:59] Was there anyone else who
wanted to speak to this?
[3:36:01] No? Councillor Strange.
[3:36:03] - Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:36:04] Thank you for the presentation.
[3:36:05] And thank you Councillor Nieuwesteeg
[3:36:07] for getting involved in this.
[3:36:08] I think it's so important.
[3:36:09] And like you guys said, you know,
[3:36:11] there is a stigma about mental health.
[3:36:14] And we do have to think some other ways
[3:36:16] of kind of involving mental health
[3:36:18] in every day for children.
[3:36:20] You know, it should be part of the sports,
[3:36:21] part of recreation,
[3:36:23] part of don't leave it
as a separate building.
[3:36:26] You know, if we do this as
part of our Chippawa arena
[3:36:31] community center, it should
be involved in everything,
[3:36:33] including the library, whatever it is,
[3:36:35] include mental health.
[3:36:36] We worry about our
physical health so much.
[3:36:38] We worry about nutrients and everything,
[3:36:39] taking care of your body.
[3:36:40] And the mental health
should be part of that.
[3:36:42] So thank you for that.
[3:36:43] - [Ruth-Ann] Thank you.
[3:36:45] - Well said.
[3:36:46] Okay, if there's no further
questions or comments,
[3:36:48] let's call the vote.
[3:36:49] All those instead, together unanimous.
[3:36:51] Thank you very much.
[3:36:52] Instead. Instead.
[3:36:54] - Instead.
[3:36:54] - Thank you.
- Thank you.
[3:36:55] - Thank you.
[3:36:58] You know, I can't even get
away with one little mistake,
[3:37:00] you know?
- 'Cause you wouldn't let us.
[3:37:03] - You're very right about
that. You've got the?
[3:37:09] Mr. Clerk, do you have the issue?
[3:37:10] (Council member speaking faintly)
[3:37:16] Do you want to just announce it then?
[3:37:17] Mr. Clerk, could you direct
us on where (laughs).
[3:37:22] - So next on the agenda
in the order presented
[3:37:25] in the agenda is the planning matters
[3:37:28] at section number eight.
[3:37:30] Those are advertised to start at 3:00 PM.
[3:37:32] So I would advise that we
move on to the report section
[3:37:35] starting in section nine of the agenda.
[3:37:40] And the first report there
is project initiation.
[3:37:45] We do have a representative
there from Resimate.
[3:37:50] The Chief Operating Officer,
Adrian, I believe is.
[3:37:53] There he is, perfect.
[3:37:54] And he has a presentation to
council outlining the benefits
[3:37:57] and features of the program.
[3:38:00] - All right. Adrian, welcome.
[3:38:02] - Good morning, everyone. Mr.
Mayor, members of the council.
[3:38:06] Yeah, my name is Adrien Gignac-Eddy.
[3:38:09] I'm a Chief Operating Officer at Resimate.
[3:38:12] I'm here to talk a little
bit about the work that we do
[3:38:15] and the work that we're doing
in the City of Niagara Falls.
[3:38:22] Okay, so Resimate is Canada's
first ADU marketplace
[3:38:30] for prefabricated ADUs.
[3:38:32] So an ADU is an accessory dwelling unit,
[3:38:34] or as we call them, a backyard home.
[3:38:37] And what we've done with Resimate,
[3:38:38] is we partner with different
Canadian manufacturers.
[3:38:41] And we do a full service
turnkey process for them.
[3:38:44] So we do all of the permitting work,
[3:38:46] all of the installation
process for homeowners
[3:38:48] across Ontario.
[3:38:50] Installing Canadian company
made prefabricated homes.
[3:38:55] As part of that work, you know,
[3:38:56] we're doing everything we can
to make housing production
[3:39:00] more efficient.
[3:39:01] That's why we only work
with prefabricated builders.
[3:39:03] And we're also bringing in
digital solutions to housing and,
[3:39:07] you know, making gentle
density easier to do
[3:39:11] and making people more aware
of what the possibilities are
[3:39:14] for gentle density.
[3:39:15] So one of the things that
we've developed is a tool
[3:39:18] where we partner with
different municipalities
[3:39:19] across Canada.
[3:39:21] And using spatial data, we're
able to map municipalities
[3:39:25] and tell people in advance
[3:39:26] what they're able to do in their backyard.
[3:39:29] So that's what we did with
City of Niagara Falls,
[3:39:31] and that's what I'm here to explain today.
[3:39:33] So our model's quite simple.
[3:39:34] Essentially, we take a look
at the by-law for an ADU,
[3:39:38] an accessory dwelling unit,
[3:39:39] and we will look to see
[3:39:41] what are the different zoning constraints
[3:39:42] on that specific property,
[3:39:44] and we'll narrow it
down to specific answers
[3:39:46] or solutions for homeowners.
[3:39:48] So this is sort of just a
overview of the brainstorm
[3:39:51] of what the model looks like.
[3:39:54] But really what that turns
into is a mapping tool,
[3:39:57] and you see a screenshot
here on the presentation.
[3:40:01] Where a homeowner now in Niagara Falls
[3:40:03] is going to be able to
put in their address
[3:40:05] and get an automated
assessment of not only
[3:40:08] is their property suitable
for a backyard home,
[3:40:10] but different information,
[3:40:11] like what the buildable area looks like,
[3:40:13] what the setbacks are going to look like
[3:40:15] what the zoning requires
and all the different
[3:40:18] sort of information relating to that.
[3:40:20] Now, because we're also a marketplace
[3:40:23] and we work with different prefab models.
[3:40:26] We also allow homeowners to
browse through a selection
[3:40:29] of existing models with pricing
[3:40:31] and then drag and drop those
models onto their property
[3:40:34] so they can see exactly
what that future project
[3:40:36] would look like.
[3:40:37] So in terms of assessing the
feasibility of the project
[3:40:40] for the homeowner, it
means that from, you know,
[3:40:43] their desktop, they can
essentially go through
[3:40:45] the whole initial high level
planning phase of the project
[3:40:50] and know from, you know,
within a five minute
[3:40:53] sort of summary if they're
able to do the project,
[3:40:56] what it would cost and what
that would look like for them.
[3:41:01] Now, because we ran the
whole City of Niagara Falls,
[3:41:04] we do have some statistics
as well to present
[3:41:07] to council today.
[3:41:09] So we have about 65% of lots
in the City of Niagara Falls
[3:41:13] that are zoned suitable for an ADU.
[3:41:17] And in addition to that,
we have another 11% of lots
[3:41:20] that would be suitable, but that may have
[3:41:22] an additional requirement,
[3:41:23] so that can look like something
like a conservation area,
[3:41:26] or some additional permit
that we might need to get.
[3:41:28] But what that means is essentially,
[3:41:30] you know, over 70% of lots
in the City of Niagara Falls
[3:41:33] could have a detached
ADU, so a backyard home.
[3:41:37] So there's a huge potential
[3:41:39] for this type of gentle densification.
[3:41:42] Now, our company has
also partnered with CMHC.
[3:41:46] We've received funding for
innovative housing solution.
[3:41:50] And we also have on our marketplace
[3:41:53] CMHC's permit ready ADUs.
[3:41:55] So homeowners now in Niagara Falls
[3:41:58] will also be able to
drag and drop ADU models
[3:42:01] that are part of the CMHC catalog
[3:42:03] that was launched last year.
[3:42:06] And yeah, so it's just going
to make that more accessible
[3:42:08] in terms of information for homeowners
[3:42:10] if they did want to go that route
[3:42:11] of working with CMHC models.
[3:42:16] Now we may not have time
today to do the full demo,
[3:42:20] although if we do, I
might just take a look.
[3:42:23] So this is what the front page
[3:42:25] is going to look like for homeowners.
[3:42:27] So these are all the
other cities in Ontario
[3:42:29] that we have partnerships with.
[3:42:30] And what that partnership
looks like with the city
[3:42:33] is basically exchanging geospatial data
[3:42:35] to be able to display this information
[3:42:37] freely for homeowners.
[3:42:40] But I think.
[3:42:47] Am I able to go on the internet here?
[3:42:50] - [Assistant] Do you want me
to pull up the thing for you?
[3:42:51] - Yeah, could you? Thank you. Perfect.
[3:42:56] So I'll just give a quick
demo of what it looks like,
[3:42:58] and then I'll take some questions.
[3:43:12] - [Council Member] The
mayor's kids would like him
[3:43:13] to go to an ADU, so maybe pull up his.
[3:43:16] - Yeah. I can put in an address actually.
[3:43:19] Do a live demo.
[3:43:20] - [Jim] They like it far away.
[3:43:22] (Adrian laughs)
[3:43:22] Let me see here.
[3:43:24] (council member speaking faintly)
[3:43:28] - [Council Member] Jim, don't worry.
[3:43:29] - [Jim] Thank you. No
worries. You got my back.
[3:43:33] - I'm not sure if we're
connected right now.
[3:43:36] - [Assistant] The WiFi is that our WiFi?
[3:43:37] - Yeah, it's the WiFi.
[3:43:39] (council members speaking faintly)
[3:43:45] Okay. I'm going to see if I can.
[3:43:49] Oh, there we go. Okay. It's just slow.
[3:43:52] So this is just one example.
[3:43:55] So I can just put in an address here,
[3:43:57] take a look at all the zoning information.
[3:43:59] I can also go into a satellite
view to just understand
[3:44:04] is there a pool in the backyard?
[3:44:05] Is there, you know, a
restriction regarding trees
[3:44:08] or anything like that?
[3:44:09] And then I can select a model
[3:44:12] that I might want from the marketplace.
[3:44:13] We have around 50 models
[3:44:15] from different Canadian manufacturers.
[3:44:18] And then all the models
will also include pricing.
[3:44:21] I can add the model to the backyard.
[3:44:23] And then I can sort of
play around with placement
[3:44:25] and everything like that.
[3:44:27] And then from there
homeowners can, you know,
[3:44:30] not only have the first
idea of the feasibility
[3:44:33] but can also reach out to
us for more information
[3:44:35] and book a free onsite visit to understand
[3:44:38] if there are any additional barriers
[3:44:40] to building in their backyard.
[3:44:41] We also have on our website
a financial calculator.
[3:44:45] So again, we're just
trying to spread awareness
[3:44:48] around information for not just, you know,
[3:44:51] can I build in my backyard,
[3:44:52] but is it feasible for me as a homeowner?
[3:44:54] Can I afford it? How do
I get financing for it?
[3:44:56] That kind of thing.
[3:44:58] In order to, you know,
streamline the building
[3:45:01] of these types of homes.
[3:45:04] And that is all. Thank you.
[3:45:06] - That's great, thanks,
Adrian (speaks faintly)
[3:45:10] Thanks, Adrian, first we've
got Councillor Lococo.
[3:45:13] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:45:14] Thank you so much for the presentation.
[3:45:15] I played around with the
tool. It was really neat.
[3:45:17] You could look at all of the setbacks
[3:45:20] and where you wanted to put it.
[3:45:21] It had all of the pricing.
[3:45:22] You could look at each different
model, so it was great.
[3:45:25] I guess my questions are
what does a partnership
[3:45:28] with the city look like?
[3:45:30] And what are you looking
for from the city?
[3:45:34] And do we have to follow any RFP protocol?
[3:45:38] - Yeah. So in terms, oh.
[3:45:42] In terms of the partnership with the city,
[3:45:45] it was a one-off sort of consultation fee
[3:45:48] that we worked through with the city.
[3:45:51] In terms of what we're
looking for today from council
[3:45:53] is just a support for the tool.
[3:45:55] And just spreading awareness
about it with homeowners
[3:45:58] and everything is entirely free to use.
[3:46:01] It's supported by our company directly.
[3:46:04] So there's no cost to the city
[3:46:06] other than that or to homeowners directly.
[3:46:09] - Great. Thank you. That
answers all my questions.
[3:46:11] It's a really amazing tool. Thank you.
[3:46:13] - Thank you. Councillor Strange.
[3:46:16] - Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:46:18] Yeah, this is really cool.
[3:46:21] So have you tried this
in other municipalities
[3:46:23] and do you have any stats, like on?
[3:46:26] - So we've-
[3:46:27] - As far as, like, you know,
how many lots have, or?
[3:46:30] - Yeah, we've mapped
over 40 cities in Canada.
[3:46:34] On average, cities are about 40% feasible.
[3:46:38] So the fact that Niagara Falls
is 65% is higher than average
[3:46:43] which can be explained
by larger lot sizes here
[3:46:45] and just generally you know,
a city with smaller lots
[3:46:49] and more density might
have less suitability.
[3:46:52] - Yeah, but like have you
helped, say you've helped
[3:46:56] I don't know, like 20
houses in one community?
[3:47:00] - Oh, yeah, so I mean,
in terms of the platform,
[3:47:03] like right now, because we
do also the installation
[3:47:06] and everything, we do
about 20 homes per year
[3:47:09] in different backyards, all homeowners.
[3:47:11] Most of them are housing family members,
[3:47:13] so a lot of the time it's
housing their parents
[3:47:16] or housing their kids to
live on the same property.
[3:47:18] - In that particular one where you showed
[3:47:20] you picking a house.
[3:47:21] So if you put on my lot size,
and then it'll only come up
[3:47:26] which ADUs will fit in that house.
[3:47:30] - That's right, yes.
[3:47:31] - So, if there is only 10 available
[3:47:32] you can use that and
then switch it around.
[3:47:33] - Exactly, and so the ones that don't fit
[3:47:35] will come up as not suitable.
[3:47:36] - Okay. Perfect. Cool.
[3:47:39] - Thank you, Councillor Nieuwesteeg.
[3:47:42] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank
you for the presentation.
[3:47:44] So how are you compensated if the city
[3:47:46] isn't paying you for any of this?
[3:47:48] - So actually we're compensated
[3:47:51] entirely by the private sector.
[3:47:53] So, you know, we charge a fee
for our work with homeowners.
[3:47:57] And essentially for us, we
just benefit from having ADUs
[3:48:00] be you know, better understood
more awareness around them
[3:48:05] and more people understanding
how to go forward
[3:48:07] with the process.
[3:48:08] - So you're really, in
essence, a facilitator?
[3:48:09] - Exactly, we're a marketplace.
[3:48:11] - Okay, and now you're
recommending these different homes.
[3:48:14] And you're vouching for
these homes you have,
[3:48:17] like, you've seen them?
[3:48:18] - Yeah, exactly.
[3:48:19] So we have a process with
the different manufacturers
[3:48:21] we work with.
[3:48:22] So we like to say we're
manufacturer agnostic,
[3:48:24] so we don't-
[3:48:25] - A manufacturer what?
[3:48:26] - Agnostic. It's just something we say.
[3:48:27] So we don't necessarily favor
[3:48:29] one manufacturer over the other.
[3:48:30] We sign partnerships with manufacturers.
[3:48:33] But we do have a vetting process.
[3:48:34] So our manufacturers are CSA certified.
[3:48:37] They essentially, you know,
have been in the industry
[3:48:40] for a few years at least.
[3:48:43] And have built homes previously.
[3:48:45] So it's sort of like a mark
of approval from us as well
[3:48:50] that those are good manufacturers.
[3:48:51] - Though you Mr. Mayor,
what percentage of the homes
[3:48:53] that you represent are Canadian built?
[3:48:55] - All of them.
[3:48:56] - Okay, all right.
[3:48:57] And how many different
manufacturers do you represent?
[3:49:00] - 10.
[3:49:01] - Okay, All right. Very good. Thanks.
[3:49:03] - Thank you, our general
manager of planning
[3:49:05] would like to comment.
[3:49:07] - Thank you, Your Worship.
[3:49:07] And I just wanted to kind of be clear
[3:49:10] on what's happened here.
[3:49:12] So Resimate, we did
enter into an agreement
[3:49:14] to purchase use of this software.
[3:49:19] It was a small nominal fee.
[3:49:20] It was done through our budget
that was approved in 2023?
[3:49:26] 2023 for the ADU program.
[3:49:29] So originally we were
going to design and create
[3:49:32] our own ADUs and offer them to homeowners.
[3:49:36] But we found Resimate
[3:49:38] and decided that this
was a more economical
[3:49:40] and affordable way to go.
[3:49:42] And Adrian's group here did all the work
[3:49:44] that we didn't have to.
[3:49:45] So we entered into an
agreement to get this done.
[3:49:49] So just to be clear,
[3:49:50] it was a small nominal
fee just over 5,000.
[3:49:56] - Okay. Any other questions
or comments of council?
[3:50:01] Okay, so Mr. Clerk, how would
you recommend we proceed?
[3:50:04] Just receive the report?
[3:50:06] - Yes, there is a recommendation there
[3:50:07] that council received the
report for information.
[3:50:10] - Okay, motion by Councillor Lococo,
[3:50:13] second by Councillor Baldinelli
that we receive the report.
[3:50:16] The recommendation of the
report, all those in favor?
[3:50:18] Okay, that's unanimous.
[3:50:20] Adrian, thank you very much.
[3:50:21] - Thank you very much.
- Thank you.
[3:50:23] Okay, moving along.
[3:50:25] 9.2, motor vehicle collision
cost recovery program.
[3:50:30] Did anyone want to speak to it?
[3:50:34] Well, I mean, did anybody from the city
[3:50:35] want to speak to it, Mr. Rocecio?
[3:50:38] And then we'll go to council.
[3:50:40] - Deputy Chief's here
to take any questions.
[3:50:42] The report's pretty well laid out.
[3:50:46] Gives council a number of options.
[3:50:48] Gives background on what other
municipalities are doing.
[3:50:51] We think we came up
with a balanced solution
[3:50:54] that does recover some cost
from those who you know,
[3:50:59] who require the service, but does not...
[3:51:02] The balances the cost
out with some fairness
[3:51:05] and the total fee so that
there's no large sticker shock.
[3:51:08] So there's no right answer or
perfect answer on this one.
[3:51:12] So we did lay out the options
[3:51:14] and put forward our best recommendations.
[3:51:15] We'll take any questions.
[3:51:17] - Okay, so we've got Councillor Dabrowski
[3:51:20] and then I've got Councillor Lococo.
[3:51:22] (council member speaking faintly)
[3:51:24] Oh, I'm sorry.
[3:51:25] You did have your, you
pointed at him though.
[3:51:26] - [Council Member] No, he
was first and I was second.
[3:51:27] - Okay. All right. I got
Dabrowski, Patel, and Lococo.
[3:51:31] - Through you, we appreciate the report.
[3:51:33] Curious as to, it's a
very relatively small cost
[3:51:38] that we're trying to recover.
[3:51:39] After we take into account
administrative costs, support,
[3:51:45] et cetera, et cetera,
what is the net revenue
[3:51:47] that we would take from the $250 fee?
[3:51:52] - [Jim] Susio?
[3:51:55] - The administration to run that,
[3:51:56] we'll have to roll through it.
[3:51:58] That's why we didn't want
to do the at-fault one
[3:52:00] because that administrative
cost is much more significant.
[3:52:04] The deputy chief can get the details,
[3:52:07] but once we get the driver information,
[3:52:09] it's fairly easy for us to bill.
[3:52:11] I don't know what our
average cost of billing is,
[3:52:13] but it might be 10 to $15.
[3:52:14] So we would still net a fair amount.
[3:52:17] We're just not recovering
the full fixed cost
[3:52:20] of the fire service, but that
cost stays no matter what.
[3:52:24] So I compared it more
to the ambulance bills
[3:52:28] that you get when you get
delivered to the hospital.
[3:52:31] I believe it's $75 for an ambulance fee.
[3:52:34] That's essentially on the hospital basis,
[3:52:37] so it's kind of a similar approach.
[3:52:39] But yeah, our cost to
issue a bill is, would be,
[3:52:42] you know, a percentage of that 250.
[3:52:44] - Okay, and one challenge I
have and a concern I have,
[3:52:48] we're in Niagara Falls.
[3:52:49] We're different than all
other municipalities.
[3:52:51] We're very unique.
[3:52:53] We have tens of thousands of people,
[3:52:55] tourists driving into our, especially now.
[3:52:57] Less people from the United
States are traveling here.
[3:52:59] We have more Ontarians
driving into our city.
[3:53:01] How are we going to
communicate this to tourists?
[3:53:04] I don't want to scare people away.
[3:53:05] I don't want people to rent
the car, drive down the QEW
[3:53:08] and worry about getting in an accident
[3:53:09] or something happening.
[3:53:10] How are we communicating this to tourists
[3:53:14] that are coming into our city?
[3:53:15] My fear is TikTok, social media.
[3:53:17] The last thing we want are
people leaving our municipality,
[3:53:20] getting a bill at home for $250,
[3:53:23] and the negative impact that it could have
[3:53:25] on Niagara Falls in
terms of marketability.
[3:53:27] And we're trying to market
to potential tourists
[3:53:29] to come to our city.
[3:53:31] My fear is that we're scaring people away
[3:53:33] that are driving here.
[3:53:34] All the rubber tire markets
from Ontario, New York,
[3:53:36] Pennsylvania and Ohio that
are coming into the city,
[3:53:39] they're going to be fearful.
[3:53:40] And I don't want to
make our tourists afraid
[3:53:45] to come into the city
and drive into our city
[3:53:47] and be worried that they
might leave our municipality
[3:53:50] and come home to a $250 bill.
[3:53:52] So how are we going to communicate that?
[3:53:54] Is that a concern from staff?
[3:53:56] If I can get some feedback on that,
[3:53:57] it would help me come to a conclusion
[3:53:59] on whether or not I could support it.
[3:54:02] - Through the mayor to the
Councillor, all great questions.
[3:54:04] We did debate the perception issue,
[3:54:06] and that is why we moved
away from, you know,
[3:54:10] a fee where two fire trucks
show up, 500 bucks an hour,
[3:54:14] you get a $1,000 bill.
[3:54:15] We moved away from that.
[3:54:17] And we wanted to balance
the needs of the residents
[3:54:19] and the needs of, you know,
of the city to balance
[3:54:22] some of those costs out.
[3:54:24] We picked the number 250. Was
there a magic number to it?
[3:54:29] No, it just what was a reasonable amount.
[3:54:32] I think if people get
transported to the hospital
[3:54:35] or if people use a particular service,
[3:54:38] it's, you know, and if
you go hiking in Banff
[3:54:42] and you get put off the trail,
or if you go in California
[3:54:45] and get put off a trail,
[3:54:47] there is a rescue fee involved on that.
[3:54:49] So similar type of concept.
[3:54:52] The other thing is the chief
[3:54:54] would have discretionary
authority to waive bills.
[3:54:57] So let's say they really
didn't do too much.
[3:55:00] They just showed up.
[3:55:00] We're not going to just hammer
everyone with 250 as a thing.
[3:55:04] It would be more if we actually
deployed some services.
[3:55:07] So if they were taken away in
an ambulance, if, you know,
[3:55:09] there was something else,
then they get the fee.
[3:55:11] So there has to be a reasonableness to it.
[3:55:13] Currently, there is no
discretion in our by-laws,
[3:55:16] so part of the process would
be to have that discretion
[3:55:20] given to the chief or
deputy chief to hammer that.
[3:55:24] But that is a debate that we debate it.
[3:55:27] And that's why we brought
multiple options to council
[3:55:30] to stay status quo or to move
[3:55:33] because I can't answer what is
the brand damage issue today
[3:55:38] based upon that.
[3:55:39] But that's why it's before council.
[3:55:42] Deputy Chief, if there's anything,
[3:55:44] like, we could maybe even
put further guidelines
[3:55:47] into when we bill for that
kind of stuff internally.
[3:55:52] I don't know if you
have any other comments.
[3:55:55] - [Jim] Chief?
[3:55:56] - Through the mayor to council.
[3:55:57] One of the other reasons
we chose this option,
[3:56:01] other than at fault,
[3:56:02] because we'd have to wait
for a police investigation
[3:56:05] we could bill an appropriate timeline,
[3:56:07] and that can go to the insurance claim
[3:56:09] of the owner of the vehicle.
[3:56:10] So we're hoping that
that cost is pushed off
[3:56:14] and it's not out of pocket
[3:56:16] other than you have a
claim against your record.
[3:56:20] - Okay.
[3:56:22] - Okay. More questions. Councillor Patel?
[3:56:25] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
There's a chart here.
[3:56:27] We are comparing our city
with other municipalities.
[3:56:31] And, one, two, three,
four, five, six, seven.
[3:56:35] Most of the municipalities
there do have volunteer
[3:56:37] or on-call suppression unit.
[3:56:41] So how can we compare
our cost with their costs
[3:56:43] as we have a professional fire department?
[3:56:45] So does St. Catharines
[3:56:46] and St. Catharines does
not charge for the service?
[3:56:50] - [Jim] Mr. CAO?
[3:56:51] - Thank you.
[3:56:52] Our on-call fire stations do respond
[3:56:56] to motor vehicle accidents also,
[3:56:57] and there is a, you know, there is a cost
[3:57:00] on an hourly rate there.
[3:57:02] Again, it's a decision.
[3:57:04] St. Catharines made a
decision not to charge.
[3:57:07] We can make a decision to charge.
[3:57:11] You know, as I said
this council has debated
[3:57:14] this type of thing before.
[3:57:16] It was brought up as an
idea. We took it back.
[3:57:20] That's why the report's written
[3:57:21] showing the spectrum of options.
[3:57:24] And we tried to land in one
that kind of balanced respect
[3:57:29] for the taxpayer and respect
for the individual who,
[3:57:32] you know, got put into the accident.
[3:57:34] - So, I got two more questions is,
[3:57:37] especially when somebody's
visiting Niagara Falls,
[3:57:38] as you said, they could be from overseas,
[3:57:40] from the US, other cities.
[3:57:42] If you charge a driver,
how do we make sure
[3:57:45] that we are collecting those charges?
[3:57:47] What are the mechanism in
place to collect that charges?
[3:57:52] - Through the mayor,
it's small claims court.
[3:57:54] So if they're overseas,
it's a rental car company.
[3:57:57] Rental car companies have
the right to charge back
[3:58:00] that kind of stuff.
[3:58:02] It's not just a tourist,
it could be, you know,
[3:58:04] quite frankly, in every
city in Niagara our staff,
[3:58:08] if I take a look at my 700 staff you know,
[3:58:11] what percentage lives in Niagara Falls
[3:58:12] versus lives someplace else
and commutes into the city?
[3:58:16] So it could just be, you
know, transient folks.
[3:58:20] So part of it is, you know,
[3:58:22] as the deputy chief
had noted is, you know,
[3:58:25] if they're in a motor vehicle accident,
[3:58:27] there's already an
insurance claim available,
[3:58:29] or there's already insurance
claim likely filed,
[3:58:31] and this would just be a cost
into the insurance company
[3:58:34] that they would deal with through there.
[3:58:37] How do we get it back?
[3:58:38] We don't bill the
insurance company directly.
[3:58:40] We bill the individual.
[3:58:42] If they choose not to
pay, we would, you know,
[3:58:46] it'd be part of our small
claims collection process.
[3:58:48] - That sounds like lots of work though.
[3:58:49] Is it worth collecting 250
[3:58:51] while going through all that admin work?
[3:58:53] - Well, it's no different than, you know,
[3:58:55] I charge $10 for you know, for pickleball.
[3:58:59] You know, I collect $10 for pickleball.
[3:59:00] You know, we charge, you know, it's that.
[3:59:03] So it is, there would
be some recovery to it.
[3:59:07] You know, we would always
evaluate these programs
[3:59:10] after a year or two to say,
okay, is it really worth it?
[3:59:13] Is it too cumbersome? Is
there a way to stream it?
[3:59:16] Like I said, the hospital
systems do generate
[3:59:20] significant revenue from
their $75 ambulance charges,
[3:59:25] and it goes to offset other costs.
[3:59:26] - But do the insurance
company pay for those charges?
[3:59:29] Sorry, through Mr. Mayor?
[3:59:32] - I've been billed it personally,
like with the ambulance.
[3:59:35] If I tore up my knee on a football field,
[3:59:37] there's no insurance claim for that.
[3:59:39] I just paid my $75 it gets billed to me
[3:59:42] and I paid that through that, so.
[3:59:45] - Through you Mr. Mayor, I
have another question, is,
[3:59:48] this is for residents, residents
are paying top tax dollars
[3:59:50] to get the service health,
professional fire department.
[3:59:54] We got the trucks ready to go.
[3:59:57] We have trained the firefighters
[3:59:59] actually waiting for a call.
[4:00:01] So we actually do not have lots
[4:00:03] that we have to deal with
if the calls comes in.
[4:00:05] All we are looking at maybe
gas that the fire truck uses
[4:00:09] and maybe some other cost.
[4:00:11] My worry is because of this,
people might not call 911
[4:00:15] and they might actually
put themselves to risk.
[4:00:17] Sometimes that's electric
cars, sometimes something,
[4:00:19] some leakage could be
happening in the car.
[4:00:21] They might just move the car
in a parking lot themselves
[4:00:24] and they could create more
problems for themselves
[4:00:27] than $250 worth because you know,
[4:00:29] people will not call
911 if they really think
[4:00:33] that's not dangerous
enough or serious enough.
[4:00:38] - Yeah, in many cases it's
not the accident victim
[4:00:40] that calls.
[4:00:42] A lot of times it's
called in by other sources
[4:00:44] in the fire response.
[4:00:46] I agree with your comment.
[4:00:47] That's why I said this is a fixed cost.
[4:00:49] The fire department is
a fixed cost structure.
[4:00:52] Whether I have zero calls or 100 calls,
[4:00:56] the bill is the same effectively.
[4:00:58] A little bit of gas is
the only difference.
[4:01:01] So it is purely an item
and it was just a balance.
[4:01:05] It's no different than you know,
[4:01:08] to say, well, it's a fixed cost structure,
[4:01:11] therefore there shouldn't be a user fee.
[4:01:14] My hockey arena is a fixed cost structure,
[4:01:16] but I charge $200 an hour to rent the ice
[4:01:18] for people who use it.
[4:01:20] And so if you had the
unfortunate need to use
[4:01:23] a fire service, it is a
contribution to the fact
[4:01:25] that keep that fire
service, you know, moving.
[4:01:28] So it's not to be a cost recovery item.
[4:01:33] It is to be, you know,
kind of a contribution
[4:01:35] to the overall cost.
[4:01:37] We used to, for example, if
someone drive off the road
[4:01:40] and hit a sign and caused
damage in the roadway.
[4:01:43] If they were proven to be at fault,
[4:01:44] we would charge them for the full cost,
[4:01:46] because it was unfair to, you know,
[4:01:48] charge all the taxpayers for your error.
[4:01:50] We just can't, you know,
in a perfect world we do it
[4:01:53] to the at fault driver,
[4:01:55] we just can't administratively
do that anymore.
[4:01:57] So because of that,
[4:01:59] that's why we went to this
kind of modified approach.
[4:02:01] - Well thank you.
[4:02:03] I personally like to see more details
[4:02:04] on how many calls were
placed to fire department,
[4:02:07] how many were fire, how many
were motor vehicle accidents.
[4:02:10] So at least we understand
how many percentage
[4:02:13] of firefighters' time is
being used for this week,
[4:02:16] motor vehicle accidents.
[4:02:18] - Our number one call source is...
[4:02:20] So, we average a little less
than 5,000 calls a year.
[4:02:23] Our number one call source is medical.
[4:02:26] Our number two, I believe,
is motor vehicle accidents.
[4:02:31] We average, like on a fire basis,
[4:02:33] we average less than,
my last number is 2023.
[4:02:37] There were 95 fires. So
like 100 fires a year.
[4:02:41] And you got 5,000 total calls.
[4:02:43] So close to 40% of,
[4:02:45] I believe it's 40% of
your calls are medical
[4:02:47] or 46% of the calls are medical calls.
[4:02:51] And then the next biggest classification
[4:02:52] is motor vehicle calls.
[4:02:54] - Okay. Thank you.
[4:02:54] For me, when tourists come
here, they come from overseas,
[4:02:57] US, wherever they're coming from.
[4:02:59] I think it will be hard to bill them,
[4:03:01] but I think more likely
we'll actually bill
[4:03:03] the residents who are paying the taxes.
[4:03:06] So I don't think I will be able to support
[4:03:08] any fee structure.
[4:03:09] That's my opinion.
[4:03:11] - Okay. Thank you for that.
[4:03:13] I've got Councillor Lococo
and then Nieuwesteeg.
[4:03:16] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
I have a few questions.
[4:03:18] In the report it talked about an eligible
[4:03:20] motor vehicle collision.
[4:03:22] What is the definition
of an eligible collision?
[4:03:26] - [Jim] Who would answer that? Chief or?
[4:03:29] What's an eligible
motor vehicle collision?
[4:03:32] - Right.
[4:03:33] - Through the mayor to council.
[4:03:34] It's when we'd actually take action.
[4:03:36] So if we showed up and EMS waved us off,
[4:03:39] we would just continue down the road.
[4:03:42] Could I just one clarification?
[4:03:44] St. Catharines did get
direction from their council
[4:03:48] in late July of 2024 to
start billing for MVCs.
[4:03:52] I actually worked with the
deputy through the MTO process.
[4:03:55] We just were ahead of them as
far as getting ahead of it.
[4:03:59] So St. Catharines is going to be billing.
[4:04:02] They have direction from their council.
[4:04:03] They just don't have any
numbers yet to supply us.
[4:04:08] - Okay, thank you. And
is it $250 per vehicle?
[4:04:11] So if it's a three car
collision, 250 per? Thank you.
[4:04:17] Right now, does the fire department
[4:04:19] know who the drivers
are or the insured are?
[4:04:23] Do we get that information
or you just go help
[4:04:26] and then you leave?
[4:04:27] What happens?
[4:04:28] - [Jim] Chief?
[4:04:29] - Through the Mayor to Council.
[4:04:31] How we would do that is the ARIS system.
[4:04:34] It's the authorized
requester information system
[4:04:36] through the MTO where we
can look up the ownership
[4:04:39] through the license plate.
[4:04:41] And we already have approval for that.
[4:04:43] - Okay. Thank you.
[4:04:45] There are a lot more
motor vehicle accidents
[4:04:47] with e-scooters.
[4:04:49] Is there any discussion
about how that will happen?
[4:04:53] Do you just charge the vehicle?
[4:04:56] - [Jim] You mean versus
the e-scooter rider?
[4:04:58] - Yeah. Because they have no insurance.
[4:05:00] Are you charging the driver?
[4:05:02] - [Jim] It's getting complicated.
[4:05:03] - It does get very complicated.
[4:05:07] - Yeah, for someone riding a-
[4:05:08] - You don't have to answer.
It's just a question.
[4:05:09] - [Jim] Rides into a bus.
[4:05:11] I'm not saying that's ever happened.
[4:05:12] - That's another thing, yeah.
[4:05:13] - [Jim] But if it did,
what would happen then?
[4:05:16] - [Member] Technically it's
a motor vehicle accident.
[4:05:17] - [Jim] The bus gets the bill?
[4:05:18] - [Council Member] Yeah,
the bus gets the bill.
[4:05:19] - Okay, my next question is,
[4:05:21] it talked in the report
about a number of apparatuses
[4:05:24] going to the motor vehicle collision.
[4:05:26] Who decides to send those?
[4:05:29] St. Catharines because
they're dispatching us now?
[4:05:31] Or do we decide the number to send?
[4:05:35] - [Jim] Chief?
[4:05:36] - Through the Mayor to Council.
[4:05:37] We have a set response for
MVCs, which is standard.
[4:05:41] It's automatically two for
municipal or regional roads.
[4:05:45] Our highway response is different.
[4:05:48] And again, we bill the
MTO for those currently.
[4:05:51] - Okay, thank you.
[4:05:52] And then if we're looking
at something like this,
[4:05:55] I know our CAO in the past,
and you just said again now,
[4:05:58] we're paying this fixed
cost whether we go or not.
[4:06:01] So we've been sending our
apparatuses to motor vehicle
[4:06:06] sorry, to EMS calls.
[4:06:08] We're sending our fire to EMS calls.
[4:06:11] Once you start this slippery slope,
[4:06:14] are we going to start
charging for EMS calls?
[4:06:16] Like what is the difference?
[4:06:17] And that's a higher percentage
than motor vehicle accidents.
[4:06:20] I just think it's a very slippery slope.
[4:06:22] I think our taxpayers are
already paying a lot of money.
[4:06:25] I don't feel that it's
appropriate to be charging $250
[4:06:29] or whatever we're looking at.
[4:06:30] I don't want to do a fee for service
[4:06:32] and especially because
we're a tourist city,
[4:06:36] it's just going to add more and more.
[4:06:37] - [Jim] Just question time now yeah.
[4:06:39] - Okay, thank you.
- Okay, thank you.
[4:06:41] Councillor Nieuwesteeg.
[4:06:42] (council member speaking faintly)
[4:06:44] Okay, so what I need
folks is some sort of a,
[4:06:48] unless you have questions, then
we're looking for a motion.
[4:06:51] Councillor Strange, put your hand up
[4:06:52] and then I got Councillor Dabrowski.
[4:06:53] - So if the driver or the
car doesn't pay for it,
[4:06:58] who pays for it?
[4:07:02] - Just through the mayor,
just so I understand.
[4:07:04] So we would bill the plate
owner or the plate owner.
[4:07:08] - I'm just saying if
you're trying to waive the,
[4:07:10] like if there was a,
[4:07:11] something that they were
trying to waive the cost,
[4:07:13] then the taxpayers would be paying for it.
[4:07:15] Would they not be?
[4:07:16] - Yeah, if there's no charge-
[4:07:17] - So, who would you rather want paid?
[4:07:19] The person or they want the
taxpayers to pay for it.
[4:07:23] One or the other.
[4:07:24] So if you don't want that
person to pay for it,
[4:07:25] then all of us are paying for it, so.
[4:07:28] - One at a time. One at a time. Okay.
[4:07:30] But now remember, these are questions.
[4:07:32] We're asking questions.
[4:07:33] Yes Councillor Dabrowski and
then Councillor Nieuwesteeg.
[4:07:37] - And to that point, so the brand damage
[4:07:40] that we can potentially suffer,
[4:07:42] would be in the tens of
hundreds of thousands.
[4:07:44] Out of that $250, once
it's all said and done,
[4:07:48] and sometimes fire will show up to a call
[4:07:51] and they get shoed away,
that cost is there.
[4:07:54] We can't recover that cost.
[4:07:55] So the $53,000 over five
months, the estimate,
[4:07:59] how much of that is true revenue
[4:08:02] that would go back to the fees
[4:08:04] that are paid out by the city?
[4:08:06] Like to see real numbers,
[4:08:07] and if that means we defer, great,
[4:08:10] but I'm just having a hard time seeing
[4:08:12] what the actual number is
and what it actually means
[4:08:15] to the taxpayer in comparison
to the potential brand damage
[4:08:19] that we might suffer.
[4:08:20] - So maybe I would make a suggestion
[4:08:21] because I see this is
not going to go forward.
[4:08:23] It's either going to
go sideways or go down.
[4:08:25] So either we defer it-
[4:08:27] - I'll make a motion to defer.
[4:08:28] - Or we kill it.
[4:08:30] Because right now we're
just talking about it
[4:08:32] without a motion on the floor.
[4:08:33] We're not asking questions.
[4:08:35] You want a motion for deferral?
[4:08:36] - [Chris] Yeah.
- Okay.
[4:08:38] - And to get more information-
[4:08:40] - Once I entertain this motion,
[4:08:41] we can't talk anymore, so.
[4:08:42] - Well, for sure.
[4:08:43] And the reason I'm doing this,
there's a lot of questions
[4:08:44] around the table that are
not answered in that report.
[4:08:47] I'd like to see a report come back
[4:08:48] and we can make a decision later.
[4:08:49] There's no urgency to
make a decision today.
[4:08:51] - So motion for deferral,
requesting more information,
[4:08:55] like the questions that were
asked around the horseshoe.
[4:08:57] - Exactly.
[4:08:58] - Yeah. Okay. Do I have
a seconder for that?
[4:09:01] Councillor Baldinelli. Okay.
[4:09:02] Remember deferral motions,
there's no debate.
[4:09:05] So we're going to just
call the vote on this.
[4:09:08] All those in favor of
deferral. Hands up. Okay. Okay.
[4:09:12] Everybody's opposed. So this is deferred.
[4:09:15] - I'm instead.
[4:09:16] - What's that?
[4:09:17] - I'm instead.
[4:09:18] (council members laugh)
[4:09:19] - Oh, wow. Okay. All right.
[4:09:22] Fair enough. Yes.
[4:09:25] - So just for the additional information
[4:09:29] if we bring a report back,
I just want to understand
[4:09:31] what is the additional information
that you're looking for.
[4:09:34] The estimate on the accidents
was based upon our estimate
[4:09:36] of accidents and the times out by the 250.
[4:09:39] That was the estimate.
[4:09:40] So I just want to understand
what additional information
[4:09:42] we'd like to bring back.
[4:09:44] - I'm sorry, through Mr. Mayor,
[4:09:45] it's like, if you get an accident
and a bystander calls 911,
[4:09:49] then who gets charged?
[4:09:52] - That's one of the questions.
[4:09:54] - Yeah, everything's charged
to the license plate holder.
[4:10:00] And if there is no action,
that's why we said eligible,
[4:10:03] waive it through.
[4:10:06] If there's no fire deployment,
[4:10:06] then we're not charging for that.
[4:10:10] But I think we heard the comments.
[4:10:13] If there's resistance to charging it,
[4:10:15] then that's fine, we'll deal with that.
[4:10:18] I just don't want to write a
report if that's the challenge.
[4:10:23] - Well, I think it was
a combination of things
[4:10:24] and what I was hearing was things like
[4:10:28] so there are 214 accidents.
[4:10:30] So the first things we're
thinking is, what's the breakdown?
[4:10:33] How many were locals?
How many were tourists?
[4:10:36] How many were around the region visiting?
[4:10:38] Maybe a breakdown of those 214.
[4:10:41] Well, and the actual cost,
there really isn't a cost
[4:10:43] because we're already paying
for our fire department.
[4:10:46] It's already paid through our taxes.
[4:10:47] So they're waiting in the station,
[4:10:49] so now we deploy them unless
we have to get back up
[4:10:53] or bring in overtime, that's different.
[4:10:55] (council member speaking faintly)
[4:10:56] Yes, So the questions, I'm
trying to bring him questions.
[4:10:59] Thank you, so those are the
kind of questions I think.
[4:11:03] Only if there's things that
they're going to bring back
[4:11:05] in the report, is that what
you're bringing forward?
[4:11:07] Okay.
[4:11:08] - The other question, all I heard was may,
[4:11:10] the insurance may pay for it.
[4:11:12] Can we get a definitive?
[4:11:13] Is the insurance going to pay for it?
[4:11:14] Or is it coming back to the taxpayer
[4:11:16] out of their own pocket?
[4:11:17] - Okay, so we're not
going to answer that now.
[4:11:19] It'll come back later. Councillor Lococo?
[4:11:21] - The 214 motor vehicle
accidents, is that 428 cars?
[4:11:29] Like 214, but would that
be like $500 each accident
[4:11:33] if there's two?
[4:11:35] - Well, the math they did there was 500
[4:11:37] or 250 times that.
[4:11:38] That's where they came up with 50,000.
[4:11:39] - Right, so that's what I'm saying.
[4:11:40] Is the 53 really accurate if
there's two cars per accident?
[4:11:44] - Another good question. Yep.
[4:11:45] And if it's a fender bender and
an ice storm, is it 10 cars?
[4:11:50] He's going to be starting
to ice the roads up.
[4:11:52] He's not going to want to
have them cleaned anymore.
[4:11:54] - [Council Member] 53,800 divided by-
[4:11:55] - Okay. So we got enough-
[4:11:56] - [Ruth-Ann] One more question?
[4:11:58] - Well, there is no-
[4:11:59] - No, no. For the deferral.
[4:12:00] One of the questions that
they were taking it back
[4:12:02] that they can ask.
[4:12:03] - [Jim] Yes, another question.
[4:12:04] - One more question.
[4:12:05] Councillor Lococo talked
about the e-scooters.
[4:12:07] They're not registered.
[4:12:08] So how are they paying for
this if they get called?
[4:12:11] - So this is good.
[4:12:12] This gives them a few ideas of more things
[4:12:13] I would have to come back and report
[4:12:15] for it to be defeated then.
[4:12:17] So, okay, we're good.
[4:12:18] - [Lori] Mr. Mayor, one more question.
[4:12:20] - I know. Yes.
- Could we bill the...
[4:12:22] I know, you just brought about
does the insurance company
[4:12:24] cover it, but could we
bill the insurance company
[4:12:27] compared to the driver?
[4:12:29] Like the license plate driver.
[4:12:30] Could we bill the insurance company?
[4:12:31] - Okay. Another good question.
[4:12:33] Another good question, Smiley.
[4:12:35] Okay, good. All right (laughs).
[4:12:37] - One more thing.
[4:12:40] - Can we see the cost?
[4:12:41] For example, if a firetruck goes out
[4:12:44] and actually at the site of the accident,
[4:12:46] how much does it cost us, to be honest?
[4:12:47] I just want to know how much it costs.
[4:12:49] - All right, lot of questions.
[4:12:51] This is going to be an exciting report.
[4:12:52] I can't wait till it comes back.
[4:12:54] All right. So we've
already dealt with this.
[4:12:55] Let's go to 9.3.
[4:12:57] Finance, budget timetable,
budget engagement.
[4:13:00] There's a recommendation
that we receive the report.
[4:13:02] - [Victor] Move directly.
[4:13:03] - Moved by Council Pietrangelo.
[4:13:04] Second by Councillor Strange.
[4:13:06] Discussion to the motion.
Councillor Lococo?
[4:13:09] - Not so much discussion,
[4:13:10] but it does talk about if
you work in Niagara Falls,
[4:13:14] but then in number two,
it doesn't say work.
[4:13:17] It says work in one place,
[4:13:19] but not work in another place
[4:13:20] when you're answering the survey.
[4:13:21] - Okay.
[4:13:22] - So if we could just add that.
[4:13:23] - Okay. All right. Ms.
Clark, just acknowledge that.
[4:13:26] - Okay, thank you.
[4:13:27] - Okay. Thank you for that.
[4:13:27] Yes, Councillor Patel?
[4:13:29] - Through you, Mr. Mayor.
[4:13:30] I know other cities do the town hall
[4:13:32] when they have a draft budget come out.
[4:13:33] Do we ever plan to do something
like that with the staff?
[4:13:37] I know St. Catharines does it.
[4:13:40] - Okay. Who?
[4:13:41] - We do not do budget town halls.
[4:13:45] If council ever wants
to do a budget town hall
[4:13:49] we do the survey collection.
[4:13:51] But we do not do a town hall.
[4:13:53] Council can direct us to do a town hall.
[4:13:58] And do that. I've
participated in some of those.
[4:14:03] (audience chuckles)
[4:14:04] - [Council Member] Leave it there.
[4:14:07] Okay. So we'll call the
vote, all those in favor.
[4:14:10] Okay, that's unanimous. Thank you.
[4:14:12] 9.4, Finance Affordable
Housing Development Charge
[4:14:16] Exemption Agreement.
[4:14:18] There are one, two, three,
three recommendations there.
[4:14:24] (Victor speaks faintly)
[4:14:24] Motion by Councillor Pietrangelo,
[4:14:25] second by Councillor Patel.
[4:14:27] Yes, Councillor Lococo?
[4:14:29] - Just a couple of quick questions.
[4:14:31] What if the company goes bankrupt?
[4:14:33] What happens within that
time period of the agreement?
[4:14:37] Does that go onto the new purchaser
[4:14:39] that they have to continue
it? How does that work?
[4:14:41] - Who would answer that question?
[4:14:44] - I may start.
[4:14:46] So they have to complete the
project to obtain the TIG.
[4:14:51] And the DC waiver.
[4:14:54] So they either complete the project
[4:14:56] if they modify the project,
[4:14:57] then you'd have to make
the assessment for that.
[4:14:59] So if they convert it from residential
[4:15:00] to commercial that's fine.
[4:15:02] But yeah, we've even had
with our TIG programs
[4:15:06] and our DC programs, we've
had sales of buildings
[4:15:09] where the TIGs were continuing on
[4:15:10] and we had to factor that out.
[4:15:12] We had a conversion issue
from rental to condo.
[4:15:16] So we just kind of modify it
with that original program.
[4:15:20] It's one of the reasons why we
went down to a five-year TIG
[4:15:22] to avoid those administrative nightmares
[4:15:24] where things change.
[4:15:27] - Okay. And last question.
[4:15:28] It's stated that staff might be required
[4:15:30] to find alternative funding to finance
[4:15:32] the DC eligible capital projects.
[4:15:35] Where are we getting the money?
[4:15:40] - Yeah, through the mayor.
[4:15:43] We don't know the uptake
of these programs, right?
[4:15:45] And it's combined of all
the other incentive programs
[4:15:48] that we have.
[4:15:49] So you know, we'll either
do cap limits on them
[4:15:52] at some point in time.
[4:15:55] Reserve funding, or you know,
[4:16:01] or just undertake an increase
in levy which will be coming
[4:16:07] for the funding of the program.
[4:16:08] That's why we put the full funding down.
[4:16:09] So there could be a levy increase
[4:16:11] attached to these incentives.
[4:16:13] - So that's taxpayers levy increase?
[4:16:15] - Yep.
- For this program?
[4:16:17] - Well, not just for...
[4:16:18] This one's minor compared
to the other ones
[4:16:21] the council approved.
[4:16:22] - CIPs.
- Yeah, all the CIPs.
[4:16:24] So at the end of the day,
[4:16:27] you got revenue and you got expenses.
[4:16:29] So if you cut your revenue.
[4:16:32] - Okay, it was just when I
read the statement there,
[4:16:36] I wondered if there was a plan
[4:16:37] that you might have to
look for it elsewhere.
[4:16:39] Thank you.
[4:16:41] - Okay. Thank you for that.
[4:16:42] So we'll call the vote,
all those in favor. Okay.
[4:16:45] And that's unanimous. Thank you for that.
[4:16:47] We're now going to 9.5, fee waiver.
[4:16:52] So there are four requests. Okay.
[4:16:55] (Victor speaking faintly)
[4:16:55] Motion by Councillor Pietrangelo,
[4:16:57] second by Councillor Dabrowski.
[4:17:01] If there's no discussion,
we'll call the vote.
[4:17:02] All those in favor. That's
unanimous. Thank you.
[4:17:05] 9.6, finance payment plan
program for drainage assessment.
[4:17:11] There's a recommendation that we approved.
[4:17:13] Do we have a motion? First
I'm looking for a motion.
[4:17:17] Do we have a motion for approval?
[4:17:19] Moved by Councillor Kerrio.
[4:17:21] Seconded by Councillor Strange.
[4:17:23] Okay, we have it on the
floor. Councillor Lococo.
[4:17:25] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[4:17:26] A question from a
resident, Bank of Canada.
[4:17:29] Is it the Bank of Canada
rate that it's one to one
[4:17:31] or is there going to be
additional percentage on that
[4:17:34] or is there an admin fee on that?
[4:17:37] - Okay. Ms. Clark, we'll answer this one.
[4:17:39] - Thank you through the
mayor. I did actually,
[4:17:40] I just saw that
correspondence this morning
[4:17:42] and I did respond to all of council
[4:17:44] and the resident this morning.
[4:17:46] The reports correctly stated
[4:17:48] that it is going to be the
Bank of Canada bank rate.
[4:17:51] If we intended to add an additional fee,
[4:17:53] it would have said plus 0.5%, for example.
[4:17:55] So the report is very
clear what the rate is.
[4:17:58] It's 2.5% at the time of writing this.
[4:18:02] - And there's no admin fee,
[4:18:03] like when we looked at our tax deferral,
[4:18:05] there's an admin fee at the beginning.
[4:18:07] There's nothing like that?
[4:18:08] - No, nothing.
- Okay. Thank you.
[4:18:10] - Okay. Any other questions or comments?
[4:18:12] So we'll call the vote.
All those in favor.
[4:18:15] Okay, that's approved.
[4:18:17] 9.7, revitalization grant,
[4:18:22] residential loan downtown property.
[4:18:24] And there are three
recommendations that we approve.
[4:18:28] (Victor speaks faintly)
[4:18:29] Motion by Councillor Pietrangelo,
[4:18:30] seconded by Councillor Patel.
[4:18:32] All those in favor.
Okay, that's unanimous.
[4:18:35] 9.8, modification to
the Niagara Falls CIP.
[4:18:41] There is one recommendation
[4:18:42] that we approve the modifications.
[4:18:46] Motion by Councillor Nieuwesteeg.
[4:18:48] Second by Councillor Kerrio.
[4:18:50] Speaking to it. Councillor Lococo.
[4:18:53] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor,
I just wanted to confirm
[4:18:56] that like the other CIPs,
it's very clearly stated
[4:19:00] that they can't be used
as vacation rental units.
[4:19:02] I do get that when I read that,
but I just want to confirm.
[4:19:06] - Okay. Can we. Yes, Ms. Dolch?
[4:19:12] - Through the mayor. That is correct.
[4:19:14] So all of the terms within the programs
[4:19:17] will continue to apply.
[4:19:19] The only one that may not
be covered off as much
[4:19:24] in the infill TIG, but it
would be in the DC waiver one.
[4:19:28] But the infill TIG,
[4:19:31] those are usually multiple
story buildings, yeah.
[4:19:35] - Thank you, I was thinking
more of the downtown
[4:19:38] specifically because
it is zoned commercial.
[4:19:40] They are allowed to have
vacation rental units.
[4:19:43] And that was the challenge that we saw
[4:19:45] that when they were allowed
[4:19:46] to have the vacation rental units,
[4:19:48] they evicted the long-term tenants.
[4:19:50] And I don't think it's appropriate
that we'd be giving them
[4:19:54] CIP or other benefits to have a business
[4:19:58] and not go for housing.
[4:20:01] So I just want to make sure
that they're signing something
[4:20:04] that it can't be vacation rental units.
[4:20:06] And then I just wanted to
talk about the presentation
[4:20:09] that we saw today for the land trust.
[4:20:11] And I was looking at the effectiveness
[4:20:14] of different programs compared
to the money that we put in.
[4:20:18] So for example, Welland put in
$2 million and got 83 units.
[4:20:23] Do we have an idea on this one?
[4:20:25] It says that to the end of
2026, it would be 1,250,000
[4:20:31] and then look at 2027.
[4:20:33] If we compare apples to apples,
[4:20:35] I always feel that we're
making decisions in silos.
[4:20:37] We don't have choices.
[4:20:39] Where do we want to spend $2 million
[4:20:41] to get certain number of units?
[4:20:44] Do we have an idea about how many units
[4:20:46] we could get for 1.25 million for 2026
[4:20:50] and then how many for 2027?
[4:20:53] - [Jim] So who would want
to address that question?
[4:20:59] Ms. Dolch will start I guess, and then.
[4:21:03] - I'll start and then
Ms. Hanson can jump in.
[4:21:06] Obviously an estimate
is tough how many units.
[4:21:11] We've come up with the
best program we think
[4:21:15] in order to just provide you
with some initial numbers.
[4:21:20] We could, to incentivize.
[4:21:22] If we wanted to incentivize
affordable, attainable housing,
[4:21:27] truly, this is a small,
small drop in the bucket.
[4:21:31] As you know from our
Park Street contributions
[4:21:33] and everything else,
obviously you heard today
[4:21:35] from the Land Trust about
the land contributions
[4:21:38] and the costs that were
contributed to just one project.
[4:21:42] It is big.
[4:21:43] But these programs are
incentivizing certain things.
[4:21:47] Obviously affordable,
attainable rental is a big one
[4:21:50] in our new programs.
[4:21:52] And now this newest one
downtown and in the core
[4:21:56] is trying to incentivize
just some renovations
[4:21:58] in existing buildings.
[4:21:59] So I think all these things
start to add up together
[4:22:03] and obviously we can
only give you, you know,
[4:22:06] an estimate on what we think.
[4:22:09] - And what is the estimate?
[4:22:11] - Oh, and I'll-
[4:22:12] - Specifically for downtown,
[4:22:13] That's what I'm looking at.
[4:22:14] I'm fine with the other ones.
[4:22:15] We've already gone through those CIP,
[4:22:17] but it's specifically the downtown.
[4:22:19] Where are we spending the money
[4:22:20] and how many units are we getting?
[4:22:22] - Yeah, through Your Worship,
[4:22:24] we don't have those numbers at this point.
[4:22:26] I think the intent was to
see the uptake through 2026
[4:22:32] and then go back to council
at the beginning of 2027
[4:22:34] with some specific numbers
and recommendations
[4:22:36] for the 2027 budget.
[4:22:39] - Okay, thank you. This is
where I have the challenge.
[4:22:41] I think we should be looking
at all of the options
[4:22:43] and then decide.
[4:22:44] I don't like making
decisions in little silos.
[4:22:47] You know, maybe we can
get more bang for our buck
[4:22:49] instead of spending it to that.
[4:22:51] Maybe we could be doing
something else. So thank you.
[4:22:54] - Okay, thank you. Councillor Nieuwesteeg?
[4:22:56] - Just to Councillor Lococo's
point about the downtown
[4:22:59] and Main Street having
vacation rental units.
[4:23:03] I think if we put in
the parking requirement
[4:23:05] of two parking spots, I think
that would eliminate that
[4:23:09] issue altogether because
most of those buildings
[4:23:11] don't have their own parking.
[4:23:12] They rely on street parking,
so maybe that can be included.
[4:23:16] I just also want to make another comment
[4:23:17] to your point about more bang,
[4:23:19] but it's also about revitalization
of those areas as well.
[4:23:23] So I don't think we can lose
focus of trying to recreate
[4:23:26] those areas at the same time
[4:23:28] as looking at housing
or affordable housing.
[4:23:32] - Okay. Any other questions or comments?
[4:23:34] Okay. See none.
[4:23:35] We'll call the vote. All those in favor.
[4:23:37] Okay, and that's unanimous.
Thank you for that.
[4:23:40] Now we go to 9.9,
[4:23:42] the new official plan
recommendation report.
[4:23:44] Councillor Strange?
[4:23:45] - Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[4:23:47] I'd like to make an amendment
[4:23:49] for the official plan
recommendation report.
[4:23:52] And it came down from the last meeting.
[4:23:54] I want to correct the urban boundary line
[4:23:57] in Chippawa between
Willoughby Road and Sodom Road
[4:24:00] as requested at the public
meeting by Mr. Rocky Vacca,
[4:24:05] by adding the 20 meters additional depth.
[4:24:09] It's going to be more efficient.
[4:24:10] And the rationale is for the
20 meter additional depth
[4:24:14] is to increase the DC recovery by 350%,
[4:24:18] which will help pay for the
construction of Willick Road
[4:24:22] and makes for more efficient
and use of urban land services.
[4:24:26] It's going to go from 19 very deep lots
[4:24:29] to 91 more efficient lots.
[4:24:32] - Okay. Do you have a seconder?
[4:24:34] Second by Councillor Nieuwesteeg.
[4:24:36] Yes Councillor Pietrangelo?
[4:24:38] - Thanks, Your Worship.
[4:24:39] On this particular one
that deals with extending
[4:24:43] the boundary south of Willick.
[4:24:44] I have a conflict.
[4:24:46] The landowner, sponsors,
[4:24:48] competitive curlers and
my sons are recipients.
[4:24:50] So I have to declare a
conflict on this one.
[4:24:53] I'll hand that in to the clerk.
[4:24:55] - [Jim] Okay.
[4:24:56] - And then if you just want to
let me know when you're done,
[4:24:57] I can come back in.
[4:24:58] - Okay. Thanks.
[4:24:59] - So Mr. Clerk, I'm
guessing that we would vote
[4:25:02] on the amendment first,
[4:25:04] and then it would be added to
the motion if it's successful.
[4:25:09] Is that right?
[4:25:10] Then we vote as the vote. Yes?
[4:25:11] Okay.
[4:25:12] So discussion to the
amendment. Councillor Lococo?
[4:25:15] - I did send an email to our staff
[4:25:19] on this specific part
about the correction.
[4:25:23] On the minutes from last
meeting on page three,
[4:25:27] Mr. Matson, did you receive
my email about this?
[4:25:29] Do you know what I'm speaking about?
[4:25:32] So on the second paragraph
specifically about this,
[4:25:35] about the Willick,
[4:25:36] it's saying that it be
corrected by adjusting.
[4:25:39] That's not actually true.
It's not being corrected.
[4:25:42] It was being requested.
[4:25:44] So I think the minutes
should reflect that.
[4:25:46] And then the next paragraph
about Jeremy Brown,
[4:25:51] again, being corrected,
it's not being corrected.
[4:25:54] They were asking, they were requesting
[4:25:55] for an amendment or a change.
[4:25:57] So I would just like to
make sure that those minutes
[4:26:00] get amended because those
are not the right words.
[4:26:03] - Okay. Thank you.
[4:26:06] Mr. Clerk, okay.
[4:26:07] Did you want to speak? Yep.
[4:26:09] - Yeah, I don't feel that
that changes the intent
[4:26:14] of the motion, but yes, we can
make that grammarical change.
[4:26:18] - Okay. Are there any other.
[4:26:21] Okay, so we voted on the amendment.
[4:26:23] So now I need, unless
there's any other amendments,
[4:26:26] I need the.
[4:26:28] - [Council Member] We didn't vote?
[4:26:28] - Oh, we didn't vote.
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
[4:26:31] All those in favor. Okay.
Opposed? Okay. One opposed.
[4:26:35] One conflicted.
[4:26:37] You have an amendment?
Okay. Councillor Patel.
[4:26:43] - The schedule of our
Niagara Falls official plan
[4:26:46] to amend it include the-
[4:26:47] - [Jim] Do you want to
call Vic back? I'm sorry.
[4:26:48] Settlement area boundaries,
[4:26:50] existing development pocket
of land at 8278, 8328
[4:26:54] and 8356 Thorold Stone
Road, west of Keller.
[4:26:59] There was the application submitted.
[4:27:01] The reason for it,
[4:27:02] because it is actually
divided by Shriner's Creek.
[4:27:05] When you think there's
the agricultural land,
[4:27:07] and there's a subdivision
right across the street
[4:27:10] that was carved out of the...
[4:27:12] The urban boundary expansion
happened a few years ago
[4:27:16] and they made a subdivision there.
[4:27:17] And this area already has homes there.
[4:27:21] There's already curbs there.
There's already water there.
[4:27:24] So I don't know why we can't
expand the urban boundary there
[4:27:28] because there's already everything there.
[4:27:30] We never rezoning it.
We're not doing anything.
[4:27:32] It's just bringing that in.
[4:27:34] And it might be opportunity
[4:27:36] to have a more attainable
housing here in the future.
[4:27:40] So I won't, I would like
to put the amendment in.
[4:27:42] - [Jim] Okay. So you've got a motion.
[4:27:44] - Yes.
[4:27:45] - [Jim] And seconded by
Councillor Dabrowski.
[4:27:46] Okay, do we have any?
[4:27:47] - [Council Member] I didn't
even need (speaks faintly)
[4:27:50] - Oh yeah. I'm sorry.
I should have waited.
[4:27:52] - So there was one application
for Thorold Stone Road.
[4:27:54] There was a few parcels of housing
[4:27:56] that they want to bring an urban boundary.
[4:27:57] There's already water there.
They have curbs on the road.
[4:28:00] And then I'm asking for rezoning.
[4:28:02] It's separated by the
Usher's Creek right there.
[4:28:05] In the back is all green land back there.
[4:28:07] So they're not affecting any
of the neighbors there either.
[4:28:10] And there's already plaza there.
[4:28:12] They have the services there.
[4:28:13] There's only matter of
the expanding services.
[4:28:16] And if in the future they want
to put more housing there,
[4:28:19] it's cheap ways to get more
attainable housing there.
[4:28:21] That's the way I see it.
[4:28:22] Because there's not a
lot we are doing there.
[4:28:24] We're not changing zoning there.
[4:28:26] That's the one thing stood out to me.
[4:28:27] So I would like to put amendment for that.
[4:28:30] - So we have the motion
and before we vote on.
[4:28:35] So we got the motion on the floor.
[4:28:36] I'm going to ask staff to
weigh in on it as well.
[4:28:40] And then we'll get some.
[4:28:41] I want to give you time.
[4:28:42] I'm just going to talk for a second
[4:28:43] so you got time to think.
[4:28:45] So we're going to go to
staff now for a comment.
[4:28:48] Then I'm going to come to council.
[4:28:49] - [Lori] Could staff also
comment on the last one too?
[4:28:52] I know we already voted for it,
[4:28:53] but I would like to hear what staff.
[4:28:55] - We could. We could.
[4:28:56] So let's start with this one,
[4:28:57] the one that we have on the floor.
[4:29:00] - Thank you, Your Worship.
[4:29:01] So in accordance with provincial policy,
[4:29:05] urban boundary expansions
have certain criteria
[4:29:07] and requirements.
[4:29:09] So it does apply to both.
And one of them is need.
[4:29:13] There's other tests as well.
[4:29:15] Servicing, can it be adequately serviced?
[4:29:17] None of that has been demonstrated.
[4:29:19] This exercise is part
of the official plan.
[4:29:21] We did not consider any
urban boundary expansions.
[4:29:23] We did get a lot of
requests to consider it.
[4:29:26] But we didn't consider it for that reason
[4:29:28] and that reason alone.
[4:29:29] We did have a policy put
in place through this draft
[4:29:36] on considerations for
urban boundary expansions
[4:29:38] in the future.
[4:29:38] And the criteria that we would assess
[4:29:40] to look at those in the future.
[4:29:43] Once the policies are approved,
[4:29:44] that's something private
applications can be made
[4:29:48] to consider those, but not
something we considered.
[4:29:51] And we did not feel there was any need
[4:29:53] for any urban boundary
expansions at this point in time.
[4:29:57] And I guess I'll go back to
the previous one as well.
[4:30:02] I know it's a small change.
[4:30:03] Again, we tried to keep
it in line originally
[4:30:05] with the existing lot lines
[4:30:07] rather than having a floating lot line
[4:30:09] in the middle of nowhere.
[4:30:11] - Okay. Thank you for that.
[4:30:13] Any discussion to the motion put forward
[4:30:16] by Councillor Patel?
[4:30:19] Yes, Councillor Pietrangelo.
[4:30:21] - Thanks, Your Worship. I
guess I would say for myself
[4:30:23] that along the lines of what staff said,
[4:30:26] there's a process that
people have to go through
[4:30:28] and to me it's just hard to
pick and choose you know,
[4:30:31] and pull people out and say,
"I'm going to not allow you
[4:30:34] to go through the process,
[4:30:35] but I'm going to make you
go through the process."
[4:30:37] So I tend to agree with staff.
[4:30:41] - Any other discussion to that?
[4:30:44] Okay. Seeing none, we will call the vote.
[4:30:46] All those in favor of the
motion. Okay. Opposed?
[4:30:52] Okay, so that motion
does not move forward.
[4:30:55] Are there any other amendments
proposed by council?
[4:31:00] Okay, seeing none, I'm
looking for a motion. Yes?
[4:31:04] - [Lori] Do we have comments?
[4:31:05] Is the comments going to
come after the motion?
[4:31:07] - Well, now we're going to do
the motion the full report.
[4:31:11] And then there'll be comments
once I get that on the floor.
[4:31:14] - [Council Member] We have speakers to it.
[4:31:15] - Oh, and we have speakers to it.
[4:31:16] Okay. So let's first get it on the floor.
[4:31:18] So the 9.9, I need a motion to move
[4:31:23] the amended official plan
recommendation report
[4:31:25] moved by Councillor Strange.
[4:31:27] Second by Councillor Nieuwesteeg.
[4:31:28] Now we'll start with council.
[4:31:30] Questions, comments? Councillor Lococo?
[4:31:32] - Just a couple of questions
[4:31:33] because we've dealt with this
many, many, many, many times.
[4:31:36] There were a lot of comments on here
[4:31:39] and I was wondering specifically
[4:31:40] for the larger corporations
like Walker, OLEO, OPG,
[4:31:44] and CN, have we addressed those comments?
[4:31:48] - [Jim] We'll go to who? Okay.
[4:31:53] - Through the mayor.
[4:31:54] So we have gone through
the comments with Walker.
[4:31:58] We did get some additional
comments pretty late
[4:32:02] in this process here as a follow-up.
[4:32:05] We can share those with the province.
[4:32:07] I believe they were copied on those.
[4:32:10] The comments from CN, I
believe we've seen before,
[4:32:13] and we didn't feel that that
level of detail was necessary.
[4:32:17] They have jurisdiction.
[4:32:20] So we don't necessarily need
to verbatim put in every policy
[4:32:24] that they have as well.
[4:32:27] And OLEO had one additional concern
[4:32:30] that was brought to our attention.
[4:32:31] We didn't realize that the
railway carried on beyond
[4:32:36] the south of their property.
[4:32:38] So that has been rectified.
[4:32:39] It was rectified late
yesterday in the mapping.
[4:32:42] So that has been changed.
[4:32:44] - The only other one, OPG.
[4:32:46] - OPG, yes, so again, we
don't have jurisdiction
[4:32:50] over what they do with their lands.
[4:32:51] So we have identified a lot
of their lands as open space.
[4:32:57] They can of course do
what they need to do.
[4:33:01] They can continue on
with any existing uses
[4:33:04] that they have on those lands.
[4:33:06] And if there are any challenges
we can of course rectify
[4:33:11] that through a housekeeping
amendment in the future.
[4:33:13] - Great, the only other
comment that I had,
[4:33:16] I was speaking to Ms. Hansen earlier.
[4:33:19] We used to have VRUs in
commercially designated areas.
[4:33:25] Now it's changed to mixed
use to entertainment district
[4:33:28] in Queen Street downtown.
[4:33:30] So my question was, and I've brought it up
[4:33:32] a couple of times, but
we've had a lot of meetings
[4:33:35] back and forth, there's a lot
of stuff here to go through.
[4:33:39] I know that's not going to help now,
[4:33:40] but can we get some information later
[4:33:42] about how many other
opportunities are given
[4:33:46] for VRU owners now with the
three different designations
[4:33:50] compared to the commercial?
[4:33:51] That might work for some
people that they want a VRU,
[4:33:54] and then other residents
might be very disappointed
[4:33:57] that we're giving more opportunities
[4:33:59] because VRUs are
problematic for some people.
[4:34:01] So if we can have that information later,
[4:34:03] I would appreciate that.
[4:34:05] - [Jim] Okay.
- Thank you.
[4:34:06] - Okay, good. Thank you for that.
[4:34:08] Any other questions of council?
[4:34:11] Okay, so if not, Mr. Clerk,
we've got some names of people
[4:34:14] that wanted to speak to this.
[4:34:17] - Yes. Thanks Your Worship.
[4:34:19] First up, we have either Rad Vachevich.
[4:34:24] No, I see he's standing. Okay.
[4:34:26] He's a senior vice president development.
[4:34:32] - [Rad] Perfect pronunciation. Thank you.
[4:34:34] - Was it good? Was he close?
[4:34:35] - [Rad] Very good.
[4:34:36] - Okay.
[4:34:37] - [Assistant] Can I ask if you can turn on
[4:34:38] your microphone, please.
[4:34:39] There's just a button there, thank you.
[4:34:41] - Thank you.
[4:34:41] I have with me Mr. Kevin Freeman,
[4:34:43] Director of Development
Planning with Kaneff.
[4:34:46] Thank you for hearing us today.
[4:34:50] - [Jim] And you've got up to five minutes.
[4:34:51] We'll set that clock there too. Thank you.
[4:34:53] - Oh, I hope I'll be shorter.
- [Jim] Okay.
[4:34:56] - So we acquired the property
just south of the hospital
[4:35:01] and it's 2273, I think, McCredie.
[4:35:07] The main frontier's
property's on Montrose.
[4:35:10] And so we didn't bring
any presentation material,
[4:35:12] unfortunately, for the board.
[4:35:15] But we've actually sent
in a letter requesting
[4:35:18] a portion of our properties be included
[4:35:21] in the hospital secondary
plan or the hospital district
[4:35:27] which would comply with
the region's plans,
[4:35:30] which have that area
also as a growth center.
[4:35:34] The current plan proposes community lands,
[4:35:37] or not community lands.
[4:35:39] What is it, Kevin? Future, future, sorry?
[4:35:42] - Neighborhood.
[4:35:43] Neighborhoods, where I've
got the planner here talking.
[4:35:45] So future neighborhood, which
allows single family homes
[4:35:48] and so forth, which is
fine on some of our lands,
[4:35:51] but because of the
proximity to the hospital
[4:35:53] and having meetings with the hospital,
[4:35:55] we've actually had
meetings with the hospital
[4:35:56] and they're actually
very excited about things
[4:35:59] that we would be
proposing on our property,
[4:36:01] which they see as a shortage
for their operation,
[4:36:04] including labs, pharmacies, places to eat,
[4:36:09] maybe seniors projects
and physiotherapists
[4:36:14] and all those type of things.
[4:36:15] Medical offices for the doctors.
[4:36:17] They say their spaces are too small
[4:36:19] and are quite excited in
us developing our portion
[4:36:24] to satisfy and complement their uses.
[4:36:28] So because of that, we'd
like this land included.
[4:36:31] I guess we're requesting
that this land be included
[4:36:35] in the formal?
[4:36:39] - Hospital growth district.
[4:36:40] - Hospital growth district. Thank you.
[4:36:43] And we think it'd be good for the city.
[4:36:45] We think it'd be very
good for the hospital.
[4:36:48] And the hospital's opening in two years.
[4:36:50] So right now, there are no
plans before you to develop
[4:36:54] any of the things we're
just talking about.
[4:36:55] And the hospital's going to
be in operation in two years.
[4:36:58] And had we have a permit today,
[4:37:00] we'd be starting construction.
[4:37:01] So we're way behind the eight ball.
[4:37:04] Not just us, I mean, the whole community.
[4:37:06] And we'd very much like
to satisfy that need
[4:37:13] and request that we be
accepted in that growth area,
[4:37:17] the hospital growth area,
expansion area, sorry.
[4:37:20] - [Jim] Okay, thank
you. Did staff have any.
[4:37:23] Yes? A question.
[4:37:25] Do you have a question,
Councillor Nieuwesteeg?
[4:37:27] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank
you for the presentation.
[4:37:29] And over to staff.
[4:37:30] So I know we're looking at not having
[4:37:34] urban boundary expansion
[4:37:35] predominantly because of residential.
[4:37:37] However, hearing what
they're asking for right now
[4:37:39] and given the new
development of the hospital,
[4:37:42] is this something that has been considered
[4:37:45] and they're describing a need?
[4:37:47] I have no idea. Is this
something that you can speak to?
[4:37:51] - Thank you, Your Worship,
through you to the Councillor.
[4:37:53] So this area was part of
the urban boundary expansion
[4:37:56] that was granted by the region
in their 2022 official plan.
[4:38:00] So this area is in the urban area.
[4:38:03] It just hasn't been planned yet.
[4:38:06] So this was going to be our
South Hospital secondary plan.
[4:38:09] We'll probably come up with a new name
[4:38:10] because it gets confusing,
but it is planned.
[4:38:16] We were planning it in
2026 budget at the time.
[4:38:20] We did pull it off the
table in the 2026 budget.
[4:38:23] And the reason being is
because it is solely reliant
[4:38:27] on the wastewater treatment plant
[4:38:29] that the region is looking to do.
[4:38:33] Obviously once we get,
hopefully we get some funding
[4:38:37] information for that
wastewater treatment plant,
[4:38:41] but even the construction of
that wastewater treatment plant
[4:38:43] will take at least three
to four years to build.
[4:38:46] If we do a secondary plan
even started in 2026,
[4:38:51] we would have been in a situation
[4:38:53] where that study work would
have expired or been delayed,
[4:38:56] so we didn't start that work.
[4:38:58] It's not to say that obviously
[4:39:00] should we get that, we wouldn't start it.
[4:39:02] I do appreciate the request,
[4:39:04] but we do like to make sure development,
[4:39:07] it happens comprehensively.
[4:39:09] And to designate one person's
property versus another
[4:39:13] in that planned area you
know, I have concerns with.
[4:39:17] It should be developed holistically,
[4:39:20] but we can advance it in the 2027 budget
[4:39:25] should council wish us to do so.
[4:39:27] We're happy to do that work.
[4:39:29] We're happy to work with the landowners
[4:39:32] if they want to work and
undertake their secondary plan
[4:39:35] with our guidance or doing it
ourselves, hiring consultants.
[4:39:39] So we have some options,
[4:39:40] but I do think it needs
to be planned holistically
[4:39:42] because again, obviously
most people don't,
[4:39:45] we have to plan for stormwaters.
[4:39:47] We don't want individual
stormwaters all over.
[4:39:50] We have to plan collectively
to make sure schools,
[4:39:53] public service facilities,
all those things and servicing
[4:39:56] is all done in a holistic
manner for the new areas.
[4:40:00] - Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[4:40:01] So what I'm understanding is
we're just premature right now,
[4:40:04] but this is definitely,
we have plans to address
[4:40:07] the needs in a more holistic plan.
[4:40:10] - Correct, thank you, Your Worship,
[4:40:11] through you the Councillor.
[4:40:13] Yes, and obviously hospital
employment is something
[4:40:18] that will be considered
through the secondary plan
[4:40:20] and very welcoming to hear
[4:40:23] because a lot of people
don't just want to...
[4:40:25] Most people just want residential.
[4:40:27] So it is good to hear that
we do have willing parties
[4:40:30] that want to locate some
of those types of uses
[4:40:33] on their lands.
[4:40:34] - That's very good.
[4:40:35] Thank you very much for
considering coming here and-
[4:40:38] - [Council Member] Also going
to go to our CAO, Councillor.
[4:40:42] - Yeah. And up to council.
[4:40:45] As Ms. Dolch said, we took it
off of our budget last year.
[4:40:52] You know, we are hand tied a little bit
[4:40:54] with the wastewater treatment plant.
[4:40:57] I believe there's going to be,
[4:40:59] you know, I think we're all positive
[4:41:00] that there will be a decision
on that in short order.
[4:41:04] You know, but because
of the break this year
[4:41:07] with the election timing.
[4:41:09] To move things more rapidly
if council wanted to,
[4:41:14] outside of this motion
provide a motion for staff
[4:41:20] to start the RFP process for the studies
[4:41:23] and to account for that in our budget,
[4:41:25] then we don't have to wait
till January, February.
[4:41:28] We can start the RFP
process and move that along
[4:41:31] a little bit quicker so
that we can get these guys
[4:41:35] in the ground and everybody
in that area in the ground.
[4:41:39] And as soon as the wastewater
treatment plant comes on site.
[4:41:42] So that will speed it up
by six to eight months
[4:41:44] on just that small motion.
[4:41:46] - Okay. I'd like to do
that motion right now.
[4:41:49] - I would. Yeah, you'd
have to add it to the...
[4:41:53] You'd have to add it
[4:41:53] or you could just waive procedural order
[4:41:56] and just do that.
[4:41:57] So either way you can add it so that we-
[4:41:59] - That is an amendment.
[4:42:00] We haven't.
[4:42:01] Well, actually, I've got the
motion on the floor right now.
[4:42:03] - Yeah, that's why.
[4:42:04] It might be easier just to
do it as a separate motion,
[4:42:07] waive the procedural order,
[4:42:08] and direct us to start that process
[4:42:11] with the budgetary funds also, so.
[4:42:14] - Do we do that now at the end of the?
[4:42:16] - I would do it subsequent
to this to the approval
[4:42:18] of this OP.
[4:42:19] I don't want to confuse the OP with that.
[4:42:21] - Okay.
- So we'll hold that for now.
[4:42:22] - Thank you.
[4:42:23] - Vance, thank you for that.
[4:42:24] Okay, all right. Thank you, gentlemen.
[4:42:26] - Thank you.
[4:42:27] You want to hang around
maybe and you'll hear it.
[4:42:29] You'll have some news back. And Mr-
[4:42:31] - They've been loving it for
the last three hours, I'm sure.
[4:42:34] - It's very exciting.
[4:42:35] Mr. Clerk, do we have someone
else registered to speak?
[4:42:38] - Yes, Your Worship.
[4:42:39] We do have one other
speaker attending virtually.
[4:42:43] And that is Joe Nethery, and he is online.
[4:42:46] - He is online. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
[4:42:49] (assistant speaking faintly)
[4:42:50] Mr. Nethery, can you hear us?
[4:42:54] - [Joe] Yes, I can.
[4:42:55] I'm actually part of the consulting team
[4:42:56] that was working on the plan.
[4:42:57] I'm just here to answer
any questions (indistinct).
[4:43:01] - Okay. Thank you.
[4:43:03] - 4.3.2, is that who
that is? Or who is that?
[4:43:07] It's someone else. Okay.
[4:43:08] Okay, so then we don't
have any other speakers.
[4:43:11] So we do have the motion
that's been seconded
[4:43:14] and amended and seconded.
[4:43:16] So we'll call the vote now.
All those in favor. Okay.
[4:43:20] Opposed?
[4:43:21] - I'm sorry, I got lost.
What motion is this for?
[4:43:24] - Well, this is for the OP.
[4:43:26] - The OP.
- It's the OP.
[4:43:27] - Yes.
[4:43:28] - Now we're missing, I don't
know, are our councilors,
[4:43:30] do you want to grab them
and bring them in now?
[4:43:32] Because they should be here
for this. It's pretty big.
[4:43:35] Do you need. Oh, she needs
her pass, right? Sorry.
[4:43:37] I don't know. Their timing
isn't great for leaving.
[4:43:41] Voting on the OP, first time in 30 years,
[4:43:43] we should all be in here.
[4:43:45] (council member speaking faintly)
[4:43:47] What's that?
[4:43:48] - [Council Member] 33 years.
- 33 years, okay, yeah.
[4:43:56] Well, here we are.
[4:43:57] Because we're going to vote on the OP now.
[4:44:00] And then we're going to
do a recess after this,
[4:44:02] so that's when we'll have a
chance to have a little break
[4:44:06] and then we'll come back for planning.
[4:44:07] - The Super Bowl of planning.
[4:44:09] - Yes.
[4:44:09] - This is it right now.
[4:44:13] So what I'm going to do, folks-
[4:44:14] - It took us years and years.
[4:44:15] You got to make sure-
[4:44:16] - We actually already took the vote,
[4:44:17] so you can just tell us how you vote.
[4:44:20] (council members speaking faintly)
[4:44:23] - Welcome back, everybody.
[4:44:25] So we're going to take a
recess right after this vote.
[4:44:27] We're going to go back in.
[4:44:28] So we're going to take a 15 minute break.
[4:44:30] - No, the one amendment too.
[4:44:32] - And then the amendment.
[4:44:33] Okay, so now we're
calling the vote on the...
[4:44:39] We've already got the
motion and the second for,
[4:44:42] is that right, Mr. Clerk? Yes, we do.
[4:44:44] For 9.9, the new official
plan recommendation,
[4:44:46] first time in 33 years,
[4:44:48] that it's the amended official
plan moved and seconded.
[4:44:52] We're now going to call the
vote all those in favor.
[4:44:55] Okay, that is unanimous.
Thank you. First time.
[4:44:58] Might not see that again, councillors.
[4:45:00] (council member speaking faintly)
[4:45:02] Yeah. Oh yeah.
[4:45:03] Now, Councillor Nieuwesteeg?
[4:45:06] You'd like to introduce an
auxiliary motion to this.
[4:45:10] Do you want to help her
word it, wordsmith it?
[4:45:12] - Yeah, I'm just looking at the clerk
[4:45:14] because it wasn't on the agenda.
[4:45:15] We'd have to waive the
rules of procedural order
[4:45:17] and then the council would
pass a motion to direct staff
[4:45:22] to start the comprehensive.
[4:45:25] I'm going to because I can't
use the term secondary plan.
[4:45:28] I have to use the term.
[4:45:30] - [Kira] Comprehensive development plan.
[4:45:31] - Comprehensive development plan.
[4:45:34] And direct budget resources to this year.
[4:45:40] - [Ruth-Ann] Yes, that's
the motion I wanted.
[4:45:41] - Comprehensive development plan?
[4:45:42] - [Ruth-Ann] Yes. Comprehensive. CDP.
[4:45:45] And waive (speaks faintly)
[4:45:48] - Procedural by-law.
[4:45:51] Okay. Seconded by Councillor Strange.
[4:45:53] Councillor, I know Pietrangelo has a,
[4:45:56] you want to declare a
conflict because, yep.
[4:45:58] - Yeah, Your Worship, I'm
going to have a conflict
[4:46:00] on this one as myself
and my family own land
[4:46:03] that will be affected.
[4:46:05] - Okay. Thank you.
[4:46:06] - I'm just going to write
this out and then I'll leave.
[4:46:08] - Yes. Okay. We'll give
you a second. Pardon me?
[4:46:11] - I lost track (speaks faintly)
[4:46:13] - So, oh, you missed the presentation.
[4:46:15] We had the consultants do a presentation-
[4:46:17] - That's why I left because
of the hospital area.
[4:46:19] That's what my spouses employment is
[4:46:21] and they're the ones in the letter.
[4:46:23] - Okay, well then-
[4:46:24] - That's why I left.
[4:46:24] - Okay, so are you-
[4:46:25] - Should I go out again?
[4:46:27] - Well, maybe.
[4:46:28] The property, it's in that
general area. I don't know.
[4:46:32] - It's right on the
(indistinct) in that area.
[4:46:33] - Yes.
[4:46:34] - It'll be affected by this zoning.
[4:46:35] - Okay, so you're going
to do a conflict as well,
[4:46:39] Councillor Patel?
[4:46:40] - I don't think Es Fox is part of this.
[4:46:42] - ES Fox? No?
[4:46:43] - [Victor] Yeah. I don't think so.
[4:46:44] - [Council Member] Pretty sure
it's North of Biggar, right?
[4:46:46] - [Ruth-Ann] Yeah, it is.
[4:46:47] - [CounciL Member] This
would be South of Biggar
[4:46:49] - Okay.
- I'll be in the...
[4:46:51] Just Let me know when you're done.
[4:46:53] - No, actually, we're
going to come join you.
[4:46:54] So we don't have to. Yeah.
[4:46:56] Okay, we'll wait till he
leaves so he's not listening.
[4:46:58] Secret stuff.
[4:47:00] All right, so you heard
the motion and seconded.
[4:47:05] Any discussion to the motion?
[4:47:08] Okay. Seeing none, all those in favor?
[4:47:11] Okay. That's unanimous.
[4:47:13] Thank you for that.
[4:47:14] So ladies and gentlemen,
[4:47:15] we're now going to take a 15 minute recess
[4:47:18] and we'll come back and commence
[4:47:20] the planning matters on the agenda.
[4:47:22] Thank you.
[5:31:24] - [Assistant] Part three.
[5:31:27] - Okay, we're back at our council meeting.
[5:31:29] The mayor will be back shortly.
[5:31:30] He had some things that he had
to take care of back there.
[5:31:33] We're going to move on
with the consent agenda
[5:31:35] in one second, but before we do that,
[5:31:37] I just wanted to say we've been
having some computer issues
[5:31:40] at City Hall all day.
[5:31:42] There's certain ones of us
[5:31:43] that just can't get onto our agenda app.
[5:31:46] And I'm wondering Ms. Dolch,
[5:31:48] I know that there was an issue
with the one planning item
[5:31:51] as well, if you just want to
I guess let the public know,
[5:31:56] you know, what happened.
[5:31:58] - Thank you, your acting worship.
[5:32:00] So earlier today we were kind
of notified that the item
[5:32:05] sorry, and I don't have the number,
[5:32:07] but Grassy Brook
secondary plan item was...
[5:32:12] The report itself wasn't
able to be opened publicly.
[5:32:18] It just went to a sign-in page.
[5:32:20] So we found that out before
the regular start of council.
[5:32:24] So we have concerns that the public
[5:32:27] wasn't able to see that report.
[5:32:28] The presentation,
everything else was there,
[5:32:30] but the report wasn't there
with the recommendations.
[5:32:33] I do understand it is live
now and able to be accessed
[5:32:37] but that's what happened.
[5:32:38] We just there was some
error in the system.
[5:32:42] - Okay, so instead of like
going through the process now,
[5:32:45] because I'm sure that we're
going to have questions
[5:32:48] because people couldn't access it
[5:32:51] the staff support a deferral of it?
[5:32:54] - Thank you, acting Worship.
[5:32:55] Yes, obviously we will
have to re-advertise
[5:32:58] for a public meeting
and do all those things.
[5:33:01] But that will give people a
little more time next time
[5:33:05] to read the reports and be prepared.
[5:33:08] - Okay. Sounds good. Councillor Lococo?
[5:33:10] - Thank you, Acting Chair.
[5:33:11] I propose that we defer 8.4 the
Grassy Brook secondary plan.
[5:33:17] - Okay, thanks. So I have
a motion for deferral
[5:33:19] made by Councillor Lococo,
seconded by Councillor Dabrowski.
[5:33:22] I'll call that vote, all those in favor.
[5:33:25] And that's carried unanimously.
So 8.4 has been deferred.
[5:33:30] So anyone that's here for the
Grassy Brook secondary plan,
[5:33:33] that has been deferred.
[5:33:34] We had some computer issues.
It never went up live.
[5:33:37] So we just don't want
to keep you here all day
[5:33:39] and thinking that you're
going to be able to comment
[5:33:42] on the secondary plan.
[5:33:45] It'll be moved to council's next agenda,
[5:33:47] which will be back when
the new council comes.
[5:33:51] Leslie, did you have
something to ask? Sure. Yeah.
[5:33:54] - [Leslie] Does that include by-laws?
[5:33:56] - It does. Yes. Absolutely.
[5:33:58] (Leslie speaking faintly)
[5:34:01] Absolutely. Yes. Okay. So
that item been deferred.
[5:34:04] I'll get the mayor to announce
that again at three o'clock
[5:34:07] in case there's anyone
that comes in the room
[5:34:09] and is here for that item.
[5:34:11] So moving on then, we'll
go to the consent agenda,
[5:34:13] which is item number 10.
[5:34:15] I'll start with things to pull.
Anyone have things to pull?
[5:34:19] Councillor Lococo.
[5:34:20] - Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[5:34:21] I'd like to pull 10.1,
the fireworks by-law.
[5:34:24] - Okay. Go ahead.
[5:34:27] - I understand where we
want to go about the amps,
[5:34:30] but after reading the by-law
and having a lot of complaints
[5:34:33] about the length of some of the holidays,
[5:34:36] if it's three days before the day of,
[5:34:38] and then three days
after, it's really a week
[5:34:40] that somebody could be
releasing fireworks.
[5:34:43] So I wanted to put it out to council
[5:34:45] to see if we could have that discussion
[5:34:47] about maybe altering it.
[5:34:48] Does it really need to be that long?
[5:34:51] And the other one was I had
a question from residents
[5:34:56] about people that are renting VRUs.
[5:35:00] Are they allowed to put the fireworks off?
[5:35:05] When I did contact the
fire department before,
[5:35:08] in the by-law, it says
that you need permission
[5:35:10] from the owner, but if you're a VRU,
[5:35:13] how are you getting permission?
[5:35:14] So there's a lot of people complaining
[5:35:17] in the VRU areas that
fireworks are being dispersed
[5:35:20] in the middle of the night.
[5:35:22] So those were the two things
[5:35:24] that I wanted to talk about.
[5:35:26] - Okay, let's see if we can
get some answers for you.
[5:35:28] So maybe I can bring this to staff.
[5:35:30] So looking to comment
on the number of days
[5:35:33] that fireworks are allowed to be lit,
[5:35:35] and then whether or not VRU occupants
[5:35:39] are allowed to participate as well.
[5:35:41] - I'll start and I'll rely on staff.
[5:35:43] So the number of days
has always been an issue.
[5:35:45] If Canada Day or whatever falls midweek,
[5:35:50] this council's always allowed
for weekend celebrations
[5:35:55] of those holidays.
[5:35:58] So it's not intended to have
fireworks go off every day.
[5:36:02] It's just if it falls on a Thursday,
[5:36:03] you may want to have a
celebration on the Saturday.
[5:36:07] Or if it falls on the Monday,
you might want to do it,
[5:36:09] you know, before the kids are
are back to camp or whatever.
[5:36:13] So that has always been
there. That is not new.
[5:36:15] That has always been there.
[5:36:17] With regards to I don't want
to make it just a VRU issue.
[5:36:23] There's generally safety concerns
[5:36:24] if you're lighting off fireworks
in any residential area.
[5:36:27] And I'll have the fire
chief make comment on that.
[5:36:29] I'm not sure backyard fireworks
is generally you know,
[5:36:33] there's a whole bunch of
safety parameters on that.
[5:36:35] So I wouldn't just tag it to VRUs.
[5:36:37] It would be any residential area.
[5:36:40] You'd have to be very careful
as far as the safe discharge
[5:36:43] of a firework.
[5:36:44] And I will, Mr. Gallagher's not here,
[5:36:46] but I'll see if Deputy Chief
has any comment on fireworks
[5:36:50] in residential areas.
[5:36:51] - Sure. Mr. Lawson?
[5:36:55] - Through the acting mayor to council.
[5:36:58] I agree totally with the CAO.
[5:37:00] It's not something that we want to see.
[5:37:01] I mean, we do encourage residents to.
[5:37:05] I mean, there's fireworks
that the city puts on
[5:37:09] and it's a great viewing
area for that venue
[5:37:12] so that we really push people
to those professional displays
[5:37:16] rather than doing them in your home.
[5:37:18] 95% of our complaints do come
from people lighting it off
[5:37:23] and hitting their neighbor's
roofs or those kind of things.
[5:37:25] So we do push you away.
[5:37:29] With that, I know by-law
and fire prevention
[5:37:33] are going to be a little
bit more aggressive
[5:37:34] with their public education
campaigns going forward
[5:37:39] before and any major holidays.
[5:37:43] - Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[5:37:45] I wasn't really bringing it
up as a residential issue.
[5:37:48] I was bringing up it as an
issue that you need permission
[5:37:52] from the owner.
[5:37:53] That was the question
that came to me from VRUs
[5:37:56] setting them off, that
you need the permission.
[5:37:58] So the question was,
[5:37:58] are VRU guests allowed
to have the fireworks?
[5:38:02] And I know the CAO just
talked about the midweek
[5:38:05] and the number of days
have always been in there,
[5:38:07] and that's why I'm bringing it up.
[5:38:09] Do we really want it?
[5:38:10] And the one thing I did forget,
[5:38:12] when we give AMPS to somebody
who doesn't cut their grass,
[5:38:15] that's their grass, you know
where the registered owner is.
[5:38:17] If somebody parks, you
can give them an AMP.
[5:38:20] If someone lights off fireworks
[5:38:21] and there's four of us standing there,
[5:38:23] how do you know who to charge?
[5:38:25] Because it's very different
if you're parking,
[5:38:27] if you're not cutting your grass,
[5:38:28] you know exactly who to charge.
[5:38:31] But if there's a group of people,
[5:38:32] how do you figure out who to charge?
[5:38:35] - [Acting Mayor] See if
we can get some answers.
[5:38:39] - Yeah, you're almost never
there when a firework's off.
[5:38:42] It's usually video evidence and
other evidence that's there,
[5:38:46] and that's how they would
pursue who is doing it.
[5:38:50] You know, if it happens to
be that they are present
[5:38:54] to see the firework, well
then they'll use their own
[5:38:57] visual evidence to charge.
[5:38:59] But in most cases the complaint happens.
[5:39:04] We dispatch by-law,
[5:39:05] but the fireworks are already
been fully discharged,
[5:39:07] so we're relying on other
evidence from that witness,
[5:39:10] you know, witness statements.
[5:39:13] Everyone's got Ring
cameras and cell phones,
[5:39:16] recording devices.
[5:39:17] So that's, you know,
generally the evidence
[5:39:19] that gets presented.
[5:39:20] And sorry, on the...
[5:39:22] Sorry if I didn't answer your question.
[5:39:23] I was looking at VRUs just
as they tend to be homes
[5:39:27] and that kind of stuff and backyards,
[5:39:28] that's where they're firing them off.
[5:39:30] Again, it goes to, this
isn't against the owner,
[5:39:33] it's the person who
discharges the firework.
[5:39:36] So if they discharge in an unsafe manner,
[5:39:37] then that's the person
who will get targeted.
[5:39:42] So yes, they can get
permission from the owner.
[5:39:45] If they choose not to get
permission from the owner.
[5:39:48] Well, then that would
be an automatic charge
[5:39:49] at that point in time.
[5:39:50] If they're lighting off on a
property that's not theirs,
[5:39:53] then that would be the automatic charge.
[5:39:54] There's no more evidence
required at that point in time.
[5:39:57] - And did you want to comment
again on the number of days?
[5:40:02] I don't know if she was happy with the...
[5:40:04] If it falls on a Wednesday,
[5:40:05] then we allow it on the weekends.
[5:40:07] - Yeah, the purpose of this report
[5:40:08] was just to say we're
moving it to an AMPS,
[5:40:10] not, we weren't questioning
the original by-law.
[5:40:12] So if council wants to change
that, then I would you know,
[5:40:18] I would suggest, you
know, that is something
[5:40:19] that council should bring
as a review of that by-law.
[5:40:22] This is really just allowing us to enforce
[5:40:25] under the by-law that's existing.
[5:40:27] - And I do like the idea of
moving it to AMPS as well.
[5:40:30] So, and I think Ms. Punyarthi
wanted to comment as well.
[5:40:34] - Thank you. Through the
chair, just a quick comment.
[5:40:37] Just because it has moved
to AMPS does not change
[5:40:40] how the evidence is
collected and acted upon.
[5:40:42] Whether it's POA or AMPS,
the standards for evidence
[5:40:45] on the part of the by-law
officer is the exact same.
[5:40:49] - Okay. Are there any other
questions in regards to 10.1?
[5:40:56] Okay, if no one has any other
item on the consent agenda
[5:40:59] to pull, then I'd look for
one motion to pass everything
[5:41:02] that's on the consent agenda.
[5:41:04] I have a motion by Councillor Kerrio,
[5:41:04] seconded by Councillor Strange.
[5:41:06] All those in favor? And that's
carried unanimously. Thanks.
[5:41:12] Moving on to communications
and comments of the city clerk.
[5:41:17] The recommendation is that
council approve item 11.1
[5:41:22] through and including item 11.10.
[5:41:27] Does anyone have any item to pull?
[5:41:30] If not, then looking for
one motion to approve all.
[5:41:33] I have a motion by Councillor Kerrio,
[5:41:34] seconded by Councillor Nieuwesteeg.
[5:41:36] I'll call that vote. All those in favor.
[5:41:38] And I'll just read the items.
[5:41:39] So the first one is a proclamation request
[5:41:42] from GenWell Weekend.
[5:41:45] It's a request to proclaim
the weekend of September 18th
[5:41:48] to the 20th is GenWell
Weekend to raise awareness
[5:41:52] for the importance of human
connection and social health.
[5:41:55] The next one is a proclamation
request for Pitt Hopkins
[5:41:58] Syndrome Awareness Day.
[5:42:00] That's going to happen on September 18th.
[5:42:03] The next one is a proclamation
request for World Sepsis Day.
[5:42:07] That's going to happen on September 13th.
[5:42:10] Moving on, a proclamation
and flag raising request
[5:42:13] for National Polycystic Kidney Disease.
[5:42:17] And that's going to
happen on September 4th.
[5:42:21] We have a flag raising
request, Less We Forget Flag,
[5:42:25] and that's going to be
for the Less We Forget
[5:42:27] Veterans Poppy Flag during Veterans Week.
[5:42:30] And that'll be from Friday, October 30th,
[5:42:33] until Wednesday, November
11th, which is Remembrance Day.
[5:42:37] We have a flag raising request
[5:42:39] for the 35th anniversary of
Ukraine's Independence Day,
[5:42:43] and that's going to be
next Friday August 21st,
[5:42:48] or the following Monday on August 24th.
[5:42:51] We have a proclamation request
[5:42:53] for Arthritis Awareness Month,
[5:42:55] and that's going to be for
the month of September.
[5:42:58] We also have a proclamation request
[5:43:00] and lighting of City Hall
[5:43:01] for Fetal Alcohol Spectrum
Disorder Awareness Month and Day.
[5:43:04] And that's going to
take place in September.
[5:43:07] We have a noise by-law exemption
[5:43:09] for Niagara Falls Food
Park, the night market.
[5:43:13] And that's going to give an
exemption for the noise by-law
[5:43:16] until 11:00 PM from September
4th to September 6th.
[5:43:20] And the last one is a
noise exemption by-law
[5:43:23] for Taste of Manila.
[5:43:25] That's going to happen
on Friday, August 28th
[5:43:30] to Sunday, August 30th.
[5:43:32] And that's all the communications
from the city clerk.
[5:43:35] Moving on then, number 12.
[5:43:38] More communications,
comments of the city clerk.
[5:43:40] These ones are to receive for file.
[5:43:43] Sorry, to receive and file.
[5:43:45] So I'll ask first if
anyone has any to pull.
[5:43:48] Seeing none, I'll take a
motion to receive all of them
[5:43:51] for information.
[5:43:52] I have a motion by Councillor Dabrowski,
[5:43:53] seconded by Councillor Baldinelli.
[5:43:55] I'll call that vote, all those in favor.
[5:43:58] And thank you very much.
[5:44:00] So moving on, we have the
ratification of in camera.
[5:44:04] We're on number 14.
[5:44:07] - Thanks, acting worship.
Just one more item, number 13.
[5:44:12] There are a few more
specific communications
[5:44:15] of the city clerk.
[5:44:17] And they each have their own
specific recommendations.
[5:44:21] The first one being a
request for food truck
[5:44:23] at the 2026 Men's and Women's Canadian
[5:44:25] Slo-Pitch Championship.
[5:44:27] This request came in after
our last council meeting.
[5:44:31] And obviously you see the date
there was August 8th to 15th.
[5:44:35] Staff have made sure that
the rest of the requirements
[5:44:39] for obtaining the license for
that food truck were obtained.
[5:44:43] This was merely to get
approval from city council
[5:44:46] to allow it on city property.
[5:44:48] So to just kind of go
through the rubber stamping
[5:44:52] we continue to ask that
council approve that request.
[5:44:55] It's a yearly request that
[5:44:56] they be located at Patrick
Cummings Sports Complex
[5:45:01] for that tournament.
[5:45:03] - Do you need a motion now?
[5:45:04] - Yeah, we'll ask for that motion.
[5:45:06] - Okay, so I have a motion
made by Councillor Kerrio,
[5:45:08] seconded by Councillor Strange
to support the request.
[5:45:12] If there aren't any
questions, I'll call the vote.
[5:45:13] All those in favor. And
that's carried unanimously.
[5:45:18] - Next is 13.2. It's
special occasion permit.
[5:45:23] You can see there it's
the Federal Family Farm.
[5:45:25] They've got a number of events
taking place on August 29th,
[5:45:29] and then others in September
listed there, September 5th,
[5:45:32] 12th, 19th, and 26th.
[5:45:35] They've applied for a
special occasion permit
[5:45:37] from the Alcohol and Gaming
Commission of Ontario, the AGCO.
[5:45:40] And to assist them with their permit,
[5:45:44] they just need the municipality
to declare those dates
[5:45:47] and these events as being
municipally significant.
[5:45:51] So we'll just ask for
a motion from council.
[5:45:52] - Absolutely, I have a motion that's made
[5:45:54] by Councillor Strange and
seconded by Councillor Lococo.
[5:45:57] If they aren't any comments,
I'll call that vote.
[5:45:59] All those in favor. And
that's carried unanimously.
[5:46:04] - Two more items.
[5:46:05] The next one being another
noise by-law exemption request.
[5:46:08] This one just kind of came in late.
[5:46:10] That's why it appears on
this portion of the agenda.
[5:46:13] It's for the Niagara Falls Night of Art.
[5:46:14] And the recommendation is
that council would approve
[5:46:16] that noise by-law exemption
until essentially midnight
[5:46:20] for the playing of music at
the Niagara Falls Night of Art
[5:46:24] taking place on Thursday, September 17th.
[5:46:27] - Okay. Just looking for a
motion to approve the request.
[5:46:29] I have a motion made by
Councillor Baldinelli,
[5:46:31] seconded by Councillor Dabrowski.
[5:46:33] I'll call that vote. All
those in favor. Thank you.
[5:46:38] And the last one.
[5:46:39] - And then the last item
there this was previously on
[5:46:42] a council agenda and this is
a Ontario Ombudsman report.
[5:46:45] It had just been received and filed.
[5:46:48] But the Ombudsman's office has pointed out
[5:46:51] that they need a little bit
more direction from council
[5:46:54] as to what the intent
of that resolution is.
[5:46:58] So the recommendation there
would be, first of all,
[5:47:00] that council would approve
the motion for reconsideration
[5:47:04] since we've already received that
[5:47:05] for information previously.
[5:47:07] And then also just to receive
[5:47:08] that attached ombudsman's
report on the investigation
[5:47:13] that was already brought
forward previously,
[5:47:15] and that council accept the
recommendations of that report
[5:47:18] in order to meet the obligations
of the Municipal Act.
[5:47:22] - So it's a motion to reconsider,
[5:47:24] and then a motion to
accept the recommendations
[5:47:25] from the ombudsman.
[5:47:27] I have a motion by Councillor Strange,
[5:47:28] seconded by Councillor Nieuwesteeg.
[5:47:30] I'll call that vote. All those in favor.
[5:47:32] And that's carried unanimously. Thank you.
[5:47:36] Is there any in camera?
[5:47:38] - Yes.
- Okay.
[5:47:46] - Okay, so next item on the
agenda here is number 14,
[5:47:50] the ratification of in camera.
[5:47:52] Early this morning at 9:00 AM,
council passed a resolution
[5:47:55] to go in camera to deal
with a number of topics.
[5:47:58] Mostly the topics there
are to receive legal advice
[5:48:03] and also for direction to staff.
[5:48:08] There is one topic to ratify though,
[5:48:11] and that is that council
approved the sale of the portions
[5:48:13] of the former city laneway
located east of Magdalen Street
[5:48:17] and west of Centre Street
under delegated authority
[5:48:21] to staff to carry out those negotiations.
[5:48:24] - Okay, so looking for a motion
[5:48:26] to approve the recommendations
made previously of a motion
[5:48:29] by Councillor Kerrio, seconded
by Councillor Strange.
[5:48:31] I'll call that vote. All those in favor.
[5:48:34] And that's carried unanimously. Thank you.
[5:48:36] So moving on to number 15,
[5:48:39] we have motions for consideration
or notice of motions.
[5:48:44] Does anyone have any
motions for consideration?
[5:48:47] Notice of motions? I know
it's the last meeting.
[5:48:50] So your motion's not
actually going to get heard
[5:48:52] until a long time away.
[5:48:54] All right. Do we have new business?
[5:48:59] Councillor Strange?
[5:49:02] - Thank you. Acting chair. Acting mayor.
[5:49:06] Yeah, I just wanted to bring up,
[5:49:08] and I just because we, you
know, the city residents
[5:49:12] and north end of Niagara Falls
[5:49:14] especially really got
hit hard with rainfall.
[5:49:18] And there's been a lot of residents
[5:49:20] who were dealing with the
flooding, garbage issues.
[5:49:23] And you realize walking the dog
the other day that you just.
[5:49:27] Some of the stuff is, you
know, I saw kids' suitcases
[5:49:30] and even children's books
and stuff getting soaked
[5:49:32] and nothing you can do
because the mold issues
[5:49:35] and stuff like that.
[5:49:36] I'm just looking at our WRAP program
[5:49:39] that we have to install sump
pumps and overflow valves
[5:49:43] and stuff like that.
[5:49:45] Do we know where we are as far as...
[5:49:48] And maybe getting the
word out to residents
[5:49:49] that they can get this
put into to their house.
[5:49:55] I guess they you have to get a...
[5:49:59] I don't know if it's a permit
or get inspected to do that.
[5:50:02] But a way of that they can
get rid of this flooding
[5:50:04] if ever happens again.
[5:50:07] And what is our our top
up of it and how much.
[5:50:12] I think it's $4,000, I believe.
[5:50:15] But we do have James here
[5:50:16] that can kind of assist us in that.
[5:50:19] Just wondering if we do
need, in previous years,
[5:50:23] did we use all the money that
we were topping up on it?
[5:50:27] And if not this year,
[5:50:29] and we do have a lot of
people maybe signed up
[5:50:32] that maybe we can top up
through reserves if we have to.
[5:50:36] - [Victor] Sure. Mr. Sticca?
[5:50:38] - Through you acting
mayor to the Councillor.
[5:50:40] So the WRAP program is still
eligible. It's still active.
[5:50:44] I can tell you that over the years,
[5:50:45] it kind of ebbs and
flows in participation.
[5:50:48] We likely will expect to
see some more applications
[5:50:51] after the rain event that just took place
[5:50:53] over the last couple weeks.
[5:50:55] In terms of funding, I
don't. I can pull up.
[5:50:58] It's about $4,000 still.
[5:51:01] So $4,000 for the sump pump
[5:51:02] and then $1,200 for the backwater valve.
[5:51:04] All the information's
available on the city website.
[5:51:07] Part of our investigations process
[5:51:09] over the last couple weeks
[5:51:10] and heading into the
next few weeks as well
[5:51:12] is to look at properties.
[5:51:14] Did they have backwater valves?
[5:51:15] Didn't they have backwater valves?
[5:51:16] We do have records of those.
[5:51:18] There was a previous
version of this program
[5:51:21] in the late '90s before my time here
[5:51:24] that we don't have great records of.
[5:51:26] But anything, you know,
in the last 20 years,
[5:51:28] we have some pretty good records
[5:51:29] on where those valves are what
properties have participated
[5:51:33] in the past.
[5:51:35] Like I said, with the ebbs
and flows in participation,
[5:51:38] I expect we'll probably see us
hitting our budget this year.
[5:51:41] So something the '27 will look at
[5:51:44] depending on the participation
and who hasn't participated.
[5:51:47] If it's something we need to top up
[5:51:48] or we're just able to kind of maintain
[5:51:50] our annual budget request.
[5:51:51] - Yeah, and that's what I'm looking at,
[5:51:53] because I know, you know,
[5:51:54] we've never seen rain
like this ever before.
[5:51:57] And I know a lot of
residents will probably,
[5:51:59] if they don't know about
putting these sump pumps
[5:52:03] or whatever and overflow valves,
[5:52:05] is it possible to get the information out?
[5:52:07] And then, you know I don't
know if that would be
[5:52:10] to the new council or
maybe direction the staff
[5:52:12] to have a look at it and find
out if we can top this up.
[5:52:17] Because I know a lot of
people are in desperate need
[5:52:20] of this getting that water out
[5:52:21] and I already know that
they're talking about
[5:52:23] some more storms coming in.
[5:52:25] So I'm just thinking of different ways.
[5:52:27] I don't know if we can
get input from our CAO
[5:52:29] or anything to what we could do as a city
[5:52:32] to help some of these
residents get these sump-pumps
[5:52:35] in and get the water out of their basement
[5:52:37] and coal cellars and whatever it may be.
[5:52:41] - Well, the program's important
and it's effective as well.
[5:52:43] - Exactly, so if we
can top it up this year
[5:52:45] and if there's a need for it Mr. CAO.
[5:52:50] - I'll just start and
Ms. Clark can augment it.
[5:52:55] I would say also that, you know,
[5:52:58] the city puts its money on the table.
[5:53:00] Insurance companies are the
one exposed to these losses,
[5:53:02] and the insurance company
should also be putting money
[5:53:04] on the table to do this.
[5:53:05] It shouldn't always fall to the taxpayer,
[5:53:08] you know, to help out.
[5:53:09] And I think, you know, that
is something that, you know,
[5:53:13] that there should be some pressure
[5:53:15] put on the insurance companies
[5:53:16] to support residents in
converting that to avoid
[5:53:19] ultimate losses you know, on
their books because again,
[5:53:24] the city wouldn't incur any losses.
[5:53:27] And then I'll pass it over to Ms. Clark
[5:53:28] on where we are reserve-wise.
[5:53:30] - Yeah, thank you, through the mayor.
[5:53:32] So we do budget for the program
in the wastewater budget,
[5:53:35] and we also hold a reserve
that's about 200,000 right now.
[5:53:38] So even if we were going
to exceed the budget
[5:53:41] in the wastewater budget,
we do allow that to happen
[5:53:43] and we'll pull in the additional
money from the reserves.
[5:53:45] So we're okay this year.
[5:53:47] - So if we need some additional reserve,
[5:53:49] we can go there?
[5:53:50] - Yes, exactly.
[5:53:51] And then in the future budgets,
[5:53:52] if that reserve is getting low,
[5:53:54] then we'll talk about increasing
a top up to that program.
[5:53:56] Okay. But we're good right now.
[5:53:58] - Okay. Thank you.
[5:54:01] Does anyone else have
any other new business?
[5:54:03] Councillor Baldinelli?
[5:54:04] - Not new business,
just some old business.
[5:54:06] I'd like to. Pardon?
[5:54:10] - [Council Member] Councillor Belichick.
[5:54:12] - Sorry, it was cold in here (laughs).
[5:54:15] Just bringing up the
motion that we had made
[5:54:19] for the MAT tax and Councillor
Nieuwesteeg's addition
[5:54:25] or amendment to it.
[5:54:27] To create the committee,
which I haven't...
[5:54:29] I'm not going to know who's responsible
[5:54:30] for ensuring that the
motion that was passed
[5:54:34] has actually gone through completely.
[5:54:37] That's number one.
[5:54:37] And just to make sure that we understand
[5:54:40] that the city's portion
of it is going to be used
[5:54:43] and allowed to through
the committee to ensure
[5:54:45] that services that support tourism,
[5:54:49] roads, infrastructure, all
stated within the MAT tax by-law
[5:54:54] will help offset the costs
incurred by the municipality
[5:54:59] and all the taxpayers.
[5:55:00] So I'd like to, you
know, for the allocation
[5:55:06] to move forward.
[5:55:07] The committee was never formed,
[5:55:09] and I'm not sure how the money
[5:55:11] besides us voting on different things
[5:55:13] is going to be allotted and
pushed to the proper areas.
[5:55:17] If somebody can answer
that for me. Thank you.
[5:55:22] - Through the chair to the Councillor.
[5:55:26] Almost all the allocations
have been approved by council
[5:55:30] at this point in time.
[5:55:32] Council gave Mr. Adames you know,
[5:55:36] approximated to the end of the year
[5:55:37] to come back with a
governance structure for that.
[5:55:40] Staff are also working
on best practice review
[5:55:46] of the structure for the governance of it,
[5:55:48] looking at what other
municipalities are doing.
[5:55:52] And so as far as what's been spent,
[5:55:55] it's substantially been
all the items that council
[5:55:59] had approved during the budget process
[5:56:00] with the funding source of the mat.
[5:56:02] Plus we had to pick up one contract
[5:56:04] that was previously approved
by Niagara Falls Tourism
[5:56:07] because we are going to be
the executor of that contract.
[5:56:11] So those are really the only
items spent from the mats
[5:56:15] at this point in time.
[5:56:16] And we'll wait for the
report back from Mr. Adames.
[5:56:20] Mr. Adames was given the
authority to set the budget
[5:56:23] and do the approval for MAT expenditures.
[5:56:26] So on the governance with
the recommended committee
[5:56:30] from council, that will be part
of his report going forward
[5:56:34] for it to set up the new
governance structure for that.
[5:56:37] So we're not...
[5:56:41] Most of the monetary spend was for.
[5:56:43] I'm looking at Ms. Clark.
[5:56:46] It was the rapid response
crews, the by-law and.
[5:56:52] - [Tiffany] It's 550,000
combined for those two crews
[5:56:55] that you talked about.
[5:56:56] I think it's 80,000 by-law and
470 for the rapid response.
[5:57:01] All the other budget areas of
MAT tax only come into play
[5:57:06] if we've spent money on special events
[5:57:08] or the other sport
tourism rebate, I think.
[5:57:11] - Yeah, so as far as the
specific item with the committee
[5:57:17] that was a direction of council
[5:57:19] and it'd been fed to Mr.
Adames for him to come back
[5:57:23] with the governance on the spending
[5:57:25] on both the industry side
and on the city portion side.
[5:57:29] - I'm a little confused
on that governance side.
[5:57:35] The portions, obviously,
I went through the by-laws
[5:57:39] and there's no specific
splitting of the money out.
[5:57:43] Although one says one's going
to be more than the other.
[5:57:47] Specifically, the city's part of it.
[5:57:49] Like I though we'd be off
and running this spring
[5:57:52] with beautification, many
areas of the tourist area
[5:57:56] that wouldn't have cost
the taxpayers any money,
[5:57:58] but that hasn't.
[5:57:59] - Beautification, sorry, that
was $60,000 was approved by.
[5:58:03] So whatever council approved
to spend on the mat,
[5:58:05] that's been approved
and is being executed.
[5:58:08] - I expected to have like a plan.
[5:58:10] Let's go and let's do it
[5:58:12] because we finally got
something to do it with.
[5:58:14] And I haven't really.
[5:58:16] The governance part of it, I'm not sure.
[5:58:20] Was I misled or something?
[5:58:21] The governance part that
David would be governance
[5:58:26] over the entire MAT tax?
[5:58:29] When that's part of the.
[5:58:32] - Yeah, so sorry for the confusion.
[5:58:33] Based upon what council had approved
[5:58:35] and based upon the one
contract that we were required
[5:58:38] to pick up we didn't really...
[5:58:41] We were concerned that
that would have spent
[5:58:43] our full allocation.
[5:58:44] So we weren't looking at spending any more
[5:58:46] additional money at that point in time.
[5:58:50] And so that's why we've kind of,
[5:58:51] from the city's portion, we've...
[5:58:54] Whatever council approved it,
[5:58:55] also I remember a few other things.
[5:58:57] There was the fees for the lighting
[5:59:01] that got moved on the budget.
[5:59:03] So we just took whatever council approved,
[5:59:05] and that's what we're
spending the money on.
[5:59:07] We don't have a strategic plan.
[5:59:09] That is part of the thing
that staff is working on,
[5:59:11] is a strategic plan for
their portion of the plan.
[5:59:16] The assignment that
council gave to Mr. Adames
[5:59:19] was to develop a budget for
this year and next year,
[5:59:23] and to develop governance recommendations
[5:59:26] for council to review
over the MAT spending.
[5:59:32] - I'm not sure council was aware
[5:59:34] that that was actually happening
from that portion of it.
[5:59:38] I though there was a POTS
[5:59:40] and we would govern the city's portion.
[5:59:43] A non-tourist profit tourist
entity would be governing
[5:59:46] their portion, and David would
be governing their portion.
[5:59:51] So we had a three-way split.
[5:59:53] A 40, 30, 30, or whatever it would be.
[5:59:56] There's no number set out and
there's absolutely no idea
[5:59:59] how much money has
actually been brought in.
[6:00:02] - There is no percentage on that.
[6:00:05] The first priority bucket
[6:00:07] was called the destination
priority bucket.
[6:00:09] There has to be alignment
between the city and the industry
[6:00:13] of what those priority bucket items are.
[6:00:15] So that fits into the
overall strategic plan.
[6:00:18] After that priority bucket is dealt with,
[6:00:22] which should be aligned with
both the city's strategic plan
[6:00:24] and the industry's strategic plan,
[6:00:26] the two other buckets get split 50/50
[6:00:28] with the remaining money.
[6:00:30] That first bucket should be
greater than 50% or 50% or more.
[6:00:35] And then it gets split between the two.
[6:00:37] So it'd be, call it 25%
for each of the city
[6:00:42] and the industry to spend.
[6:00:46] As, you know, I think we've
allocated more than $500,000
[6:00:50] in spending in our bucket
that council already approved.
[6:00:53] I don't think we are
going to be that much more
[6:00:55] than the $500,000, so we
weren't spending anything more
[6:00:59] than what council already
approved to spend.
[6:01:01] So we're spending the $500,000.
[6:01:05] We moved from a dollar amount
to a percentage amount.
[6:01:09] We're just now in the first few months
[6:01:11] of the percentage amount.
[6:01:12] And we get all our information
60 days after things happen
[6:01:15] because they have to go
through the month of...
[6:01:19] The month of June is reported to us
[6:01:21] by the end of July, right?
[6:01:24] - I just want to make sure
that City of Niagara Falls-
[6:01:28] - I think Councillor Baldinelli
wants to see a report really
[6:01:30] that's written to council,
whether it's a quarterly report
[6:01:33] or whether, you know,
it's a bi-annual report,
[6:01:36] whatever it is.
[6:01:36] - I also want to understand it.
[6:01:37] - Now, once we have
something in front of us,
[6:01:39] then we can ask questions
[6:01:41] and sort of tweak it to what we want.
[6:01:43] - Yes, so at the end of the year,
[6:01:44] we should have a strategic plan.
[6:01:48] A strategic plan from the industry,
[6:01:49] a strategic plan for the city,
[6:01:51] a governance recommendation on
how to administer the dollars
[6:01:54] so that they're administered
in an effective manner.
[6:01:58] And an actual report on how
much money was collected
[6:02:01] in the first year.
[6:02:04] Under the new percentage.
[6:02:05] - Okay, I understand that,
[6:02:06] but I'm just saying in the by-law,
[6:02:08] the portion of Niagara Falls,
City of Niagara Falls portion,
[6:02:12] specifically to benefit the
residents of Niagara Falls.
[6:02:17] It helps tourism, but
it benefits the city.
[6:02:21] The residents and the
PAS, the sporting venues
[6:02:27] anything that allocated towards tourism
[6:02:29] would now not be paid
by the city residents,
[6:02:32] which benefits their lifestyles,
which is in the by-law.
[6:02:35] I just want to make sure that
we're focused on someone else
[6:02:38] not telling the city council
[6:02:41] how it'll be best
performed on the city side.
[6:02:44] I mean, they'll have large
portion of the designated funds
[6:02:47] for themselves to decide
on how to best promote
[6:02:51] City of Niagara Falls
in two different pots.
[6:02:54] But this portion of the
city in Niagara Falls
[6:02:56] must be for the residents. Thank you.
[6:03:01] - Okay. So staff will come back
with a report though. Okay.
[6:03:04] All right, Councillor Dabrowski,
[6:03:05] did you have something to add on that?
[6:03:06] No? Okay. Yeah, go ahead.
[6:03:07] (council member speaking faintly)
[6:03:10] Well, yeah. I think he already
put a motion on the floor.
[6:03:12] - Well, and that's the challenge.
[6:03:13] - That council receive a report.
[6:03:15] - I think the third time
you've got up and spoke to it,
[6:03:17] and we still don't...
[6:03:19] I'm surprised that we
don't have a document
[6:03:21] that says here's what we brought in,
[6:03:23] here's what we've spent on,
[6:03:24] and here's what we're speaking on.
[6:03:25] The CAO's talked about this, I
think three or four times now
[6:03:28] over the past six months,
[6:03:29] and we've still yet to see
something on paper that said,
[6:03:33] here's what we brought in.
[6:03:34] So I think a couple of simple questions
[6:03:36] that Councillor Baldinelli asking,
[6:03:38] how much have we brought in?
[6:03:39] What have we spent it on? And what's left?
[6:03:41] And we just want that.
[6:03:42] It doesn't have to be
a fulsome staff report,
[6:03:44] that's an 18 page document.
[6:03:46] We're looking for a one page
quick cheat sheet that says,
[6:03:49] "Here's what we brought
in, here's what we spent."
[6:03:51] And we've heard it
three or four times now,
[6:03:53] but we've yet to see an
email that's gone out
[6:03:55] to council even, not even a
report that's outlined it.
[6:03:58] So I think it's not even a fulsome report.
[6:04:00] It's a simple email that could
go around to council saying,
[6:04:03] "Here's what we've done so
far, but we've heard it."
[6:04:06] - Staff will send an email
prior to the report coming out.
[6:04:09] - [Jason] Yeah.
[6:04:10] - Okay. All right. Councillor Kerrio.
[6:04:13] - Just a quick comment,
Your Worship, on this topic.
[6:04:16] I'm assuming that when that comes through,
[6:04:18] you're also going to have a
report that tells the council
[6:04:22] what you got out of the money you spent.
[6:04:24] An analysis on, you know,
here's where we spent the money.
[6:04:28] Here's what we got for it
to see if it was, you know,
[6:04:30] if it makes sense to do it again.
[6:04:32] So even if it's money that
we're not in control of,
[6:04:35] I think it would be nice
for the staff to comment
[6:04:39] to the council on what they think about
[6:04:42] how the money was spent.
[6:04:43] Considering that that's who's
going to be looking at it,
[6:04:46] council and staff.
[6:04:47] But I think that that's very important.
[6:04:49] Not just to see where the money went,
[6:04:51] but to see what the money got you.
[6:04:53] As if you don't know
what the money got you,
[6:04:55] you're going to fly blind.
[6:04:57] So you need to know what
works and what doesn't work.
[6:05:00] And I'd be concerned
about having the staff
[6:05:02] have a good look at, you know,
where the money was spent
[6:05:05] and what you got for your money.
[6:05:07] Thank you.
[6:05:09] - Is there any other
new business of council?
[6:05:12] Okay if not, then we have to
go back to the planning items.
[6:05:14] We'll leave the by-laws now
until the end of the meeting
[6:05:16] and then they can be approved then.
[6:05:18] So we're going back to 8.1.
[6:05:21] Right now we have three
planning items left.
[6:05:23] I should announce to the public
that 8.4 has been deferred.
[6:05:27] We've been having some
computer issues at the city.
[6:05:30] We understand that the
information for that one
[6:05:33] wasn't uploaded or
wasn't actually available
[6:05:35] on the website until this morning.
[6:05:37] So that item's already been deferred.
[6:05:39] So anyone that's here for the
Grassy Brook secondary plan,
[6:05:43] that'll be back at the next council.
[6:05:45] So the very next council
meeting, which I'm not sure,
[6:05:48] is it in October, November,
somewhere around there?
[6:05:51] - November 24th.
[6:05:53] - November 24th.
[6:05:54] So November 24th, the
Grassy Brook secondary plan
[6:05:57] will come back.
[6:05:59] Okay. So moving on to 8.1.
[6:06:02] I'll ask the city clerk
to introduce the next item
[6:06:05] on the agenda.
[6:06:08] - A public meeting is now being convened
[6:06:10] to consider a proposed amendment
to the city's official plan
[6:06:12] and zoning by-law to permit
1,782 rental dwelling units
[6:06:17] across two mixed use buildings
[6:06:19] and four apartment dwellings
at 5259 Dorchester Road.
[6:06:24] Notice was given by first class mail
[6:06:26] in accordance with the Planning
Act on July 22nd, 2026,
[6:06:29] and by posting a sign on
the property in question.
[6:06:32] In accordance with Bill 185,
the minister, the applicant,
[6:06:36] or specified person, public body,
[6:06:38] or registered owner of any land
[6:06:40] to which the official plan
amendment and by-law will apply,
[6:06:43] who made oral submissions
at a public meeting
[6:06:45] or written submissions to city
council prior to the adoption
[6:06:48] of the official plan amendment
and/or passage of the by-law
[6:06:52] may appeal the official plan amendment
[6:06:54] and/or the by-law to the
Ontario Land Tribunal.
[6:06:56] Third party appeals are
no longer permitted.
[6:07:00] - Okay, thank you, Mr. Clerk.
[6:07:02] I would now ask for someone
from the planning department.
[6:07:05] Hello, Ms. Ceci, to explain the purpose
[6:07:08] and the reason for the proposed amendment.
[6:07:19] - Good afternoon, Chair
[6:07:20] Welcome.
- Sorry about that.
[6:07:21] Good afternoon, Chair, Mayor, Council,
[6:07:24] Staff and Area Residents.
[6:07:26] Thank you for joining the public meeting
[6:07:27] for the official plan amendment
and zoning by-law amendment
[6:07:29] located at 5259 Dorchester Road.
[6:07:35] The subject lands are approximately
7.154 hectares in size
[6:07:38] and are located on the west
side of Dorchester Road,
[6:07:40] south of Montrose Road.
[6:07:42] Sorry, Morrison Street.
[6:07:43] The lands are currently vacant,
[6:07:45] however, they have historically
been used for residential,
[6:07:47] commercial and industrial purposes.
[6:07:49] Surrounding land uses
include Arterra Wines Canada
[6:07:52] to the north along with
Canadian National Railway line
[6:07:54] and commercial uses.
[6:07:56] To the south is the Queen Elizabeth Way
[6:07:58] and Highway 420 on-ramps.
[6:08:00] To the east is Dorchester Road,
[6:08:02] an eight-storey apartment
dwelling and townhouse
[6:08:04] and detached dwellings.
[6:08:05] And to the west are lands owned
[6:08:07] by the Ministry of Transportation
[6:08:08] and the Queen Elizabeth Way.
[6:08:11] The subject lands are
designated major commercial
[6:08:13] in the city's official
plan and are located
[6:08:15] within the Morrison Dorchester node.
[6:08:18] Standalone residential
and mixed use buildings
[6:08:20] are currently permitted
subject to the policies
[6:08:22] of the official plan,
which currently permit
[6:08:24] a height of between four and 10 stories
[6:08:26] and a maximum density of
150 units per hectare.
[6:08:29] An official plan amendment
is proposed to redesignate
[6:08:31] the subject lands to a special policy area
[6:08:35] with a residential land use designation
[6:08:37] that would permit a maximum
building height of 25 stories,
[6:08:40] a minimum net density of
100 units per hectare,
[6:08:43] a maximum net density of
240 units per hectare,
[6:08:46] neighborhood commercial uses
located within 500 meters
[6:08:49] of existing commercial uses
[6:08:51] and not exceeding a
gross leasable floor area
[6:08:53] of 7,500 square meters,
a maintenance building,
[6:08:56] and mini storage buildings.
[6:08:59] The subject lands are
zoned site-specific planned
[6:09:01] shopping commercial zone,
[6:09:03] and a zoning by-law
amendment is also proposed
[6:09:05] to rezone the subject lands
[6:09:06] to site specific Residential
Apartment 5F Density Zone
[6:09:09] and open space zone to permit
the uses in the R5F zone,
[6:09:13] which includes apartment dwellings
[6:09:15] and stacked townhouse dwellings,
various commercial uses,
[6:09:18] a maintenance building,
and mini storage buildings.
[6:09:20] Site-specific zoning
relief is also requested
[6:09:23] to permit a reduction
[6:09:24] to the minimum lot area per dwelling unit,
[6:09:26] minimum interior side yard
width, minimum rear yard depth,
[6:09:29] and minimum number of parking
spaces for dwelling units
[6:09:31] and retail and office uses.
[6:09:34] An increase to the maximum
building height is also requested
[6:09:37] as well as the number of
apartment dwellings on one lot
[6:09:40] and the projection of balconies
and unsupported canopies,
[6:09:42] eaves, or gutters.
[6:09:45] So this slide shows the previous site plan
[6:09:48] that was originally submitted
[6:09:49] with the development application.
[6:09:51] This shows three mixed use buildings
[6:09:53] and five apartment dwellings
[6:09:54] with building heights ranging
from five to 20 stories
[6:09:56] and containing a total
of 1,782 purpose-built
[6:10:00] rental dwelling units, along
with mini storage buildings
[6:10:04] and a mini storage and
maintenance building.
[6:10:06] The proposal provided a 70 meter setback
[6:10:08] between the north property
line, which is shared
[6:10:10] with Arterra Wines Canada,
[6:10:12] which is a class two industrial facility,
[6:10:14] and the proposed mixed use buildings
[6:10:15] and apartment dwellings
save and except building one
[6:10:19] also achieved this 70 meter setback.
[6:10:22] Written comments in opposition
to the proposed development
[6:10:25] were received from Arterra Wines Canada,
[6:10:27] citing concerns regarding
the potential for noise
[6:10:29] and odor impacts and the
impact on the viability
[6:10:32] of their facility in future expansions.
[6:10:36] Following a meeting with
Arterra Wines Canada
[6:10:37] in June of 2026, the applicant revised
[6:10:40] the development concept and
a memorandum of understanding
[6:10:42] dated July 6th, 2026,
[6:10:44] was executed between Arterra
Wines Canada and the applicant.
[6:10:48] The terms of the memorandum
are being implemented
[6:10:50] through the revised
concept and will continue
[6:10:52] to guide the coordination and cooperation
[6:10:54] during the future site
plan approval process
[6:10:56] and construction activities
[6:10:58] including the inclusion
of warning clauses.
[6:11:01] The revised submission concept proposes
[6:11:03] the same number of purpose-built
rental units, so 1,782.
[6:11:07] However, the layout has been redesigned
[6:11:09] to push the buildings to
the periphery of the site
[6:11:11] adjacent to the south lot line
[6:11:12] and is now accommodating
a 100 meter setback
[6:11:15] save and except building two,
[6:11:17] which is at approximately 91 meters
[6:11:19] from the shared property line.
[6:11:22] The revised submission consists
of two mixed use buildings,
[6:11:25] one commercial building,
and four apartment dwellings
[6:11:27] with building heights that
range from five stories
[6:11:29] to 25 stories, along with mini storage
[6:11:32] and maintenance buildings.
[6:11:35] This slide shows a conceptual rendering
[6:11:37] of the proposed development.
[6:11:39] This perspective is from Dorchester Road
[6:11:40] opposite of the subject lands
[6:11:42] and the applicant's presentation
will include more visuals
[6:11:45] of this nature.
[6:11:47] Moving on to neighborhood comments,
[6:11:49] a neighborhood meeting was
held on October 1st, 2025
[6:11:51] and attended by approximately
75 members of the public.
[6:11:54] And a second neighborhood meeting
[6:11:56] was held on December 3rd, 2025,
[6:11:58] and was attended by 31
members of the public.
[6:12:01] 35 written comments submissions
have been received to date,
[6:12:03] and the following slides
identify and address the concerns
[6:12:06] that were raised by members of the public.
[6:12:08] With respect to parking availability,
[6:12:10] the proposed parking rate
of one to one parking spaces
[6:12:13] per dwelling unit is consistent
[6:12:14] with the city's recent
initiated parking study,
[6:12:18] and the modified retail
and office parking rate
[6:12:20] of one parking space for
every 27 square meters
[6:12:23] is supported recognizing
the mixed use nature
[6:12:25] of the development
[6:12:26] and the opportunity for
shared parking arrangements.
[6:12:29] From a wind and shadow impact perspective,
[6:12:31] the shadow study indicates
that adjacent residential
[6:12:33] amenity areas will meet or exceed
[6:12:35] the six hour of sunlight
minimum requirement,
[6:12:38] and public outdoor amenity
areas will not be impacted.
[6:12:41] And the pedestrian wind study
identifies localized areas
[6:12:43] of uncomfortable and
unsafe wind conditions
[6:12:46] during the month on the subject lands.
[6:12:48] However, we are recommending
a holding provision requiring
[6:12:51] the submission of an updated
quantitative wind study
[6:12:54] but they are confident that
through the implementation
[6:12:56] and mitigation measure that
they'll be able to address
[6:13:00] the wind concerns that were brought up.
[6:13:03] Regarding the appropriateness
[6:13:04] of the proposed building
height and density,
[6:13:06] staff note that the proposed
buildings are arranged
[6:13:08] with the greatest building
heights at the periphery
[6:13:10] of the site away from the
adjacent and nearby residential
[6:13:13] and industrial land uses.
[6:13:15] And building heights
step down to between five
[6:13:18] and 14 stories adjacent
to Dorchester Road.
[6:13:21] And it's noted that across
the street is an eight story
[6:13:23] apartment dwelling, and
so this is bringing online
[6:13:26] a similar scale of development
adjacent to Dorchester Road.
[6:13:29] Further, the technical
study work completed to date
[6:13:31] demonstrates that the proposed
development and density
[6:13:33] can be supported by the
existing transportation
[6:13:35] and servicing infrastructure
subject to the removal
[6:13:39] of the recommended holding provision,
[6:13:40] which I'll discuss in more detail.
[6:13:44] With respect to traffic volumes,
[6:13:45] a traffic impact study
identified that the intersection
[6:13:49] of Dorchester and Dawson
Street operates adequately now
[6:13:52] with minimal delays and
is expected to continue
[6:13:54] to operate adequately in the future
[6:13:56] with the proposed development.
[6:13:58] The study identified that some
movements at the intersection
[6:14:01] of Dorchester Road and
Morrison Street operate
[6:14:03] with poorer levels of service
under existing conditions
[6:14:06] and that the addition of
site generated traffic
[6:14:08] is expected to further degrade operations
[6:14:11] for some movements resulting
in increased vehicle queues
[6:14:14] and delays at the intersection.
[6:14:16] While these operational deficiencies exist
[6:14:19] under existing conditions,
[6:14:21] the proposed development
is expected to contribute
[6:14:23] in part to the increased
delays in queuing.
[6:14:25] A holding provision is recommended
to require the submission
[6:14:29] and approval of an updated
traffic impact study
[6:14:32] to confirm whether conclusions
from the original study
[6:14:34] remain valid, as well as
to require the removal
[6:14:38] of that holding provision
on a phase by phase basis
[6:14:41] rather than for the
entirety of the development,
[6:14:43] recognizing that it will be developed
[6:14:45] on a potentially 10 year or longer basis.
[6:14:49] And that will allow staff
to assess traffic conditions
[6:14:51] as they come online.
[6:14:58] And with respect to the
number of site accesses,
[6:15:01] a vehicular access to the subject lands
[6:15:03] is provided from Dawson Street.
[6:15:04] In response to the public comments,
[6:15:06] an emergency access to Dorchester Road
[6:15:08] was also incorporated into the site design
[6:15:10] and will be subject
[6:15:11] to the Ministry of
Transportation's approval.
[6:15:13] And regarding traffic behavior associated
[6:15:15] with the existing train crossing,
[6:15:17] the development is not
anticipated to result
[6:15:19] in a significant increase
[6:15:20] in neighborhood cut through traffic.
[6:15:25] From an affordability perspective,
[6:15:27] the proposed development will
provide 1,782 purpose-built
[6:15:31] rental dwelling units
consisting of a mix of bachelor,
[6:15:33] one, two, and three bedroom units.
[6:15:36] Rents are expected to be attainable
[6:15:37] for moderate and high income households.
[6:15:40] And while the proposed
development does not include
[6:15:42] affordable housing units,
[6:15:43] it will contribute to the
city's rental housing supply.
[6:15:46] With respect to construction
timing and impacts,
[6:15:48] build out of the proposed development
[6:15:50] is anticipated to occur
over a 10 year period
[6:15:52] and is expected to proceed in phases.
[6:15:55] No blasting activities are proposed
[6:15:57] and dust generated during
construction activities
[6:16:00] will be managed through the implementation
[6:16:01] of industry standard
best practice management,
[6:16:05] as well as construction management plans
[6:16:07] at the future site plan control stage.
[6:16:09] And lastly, with respect to amenity space,
[6:16:12] a total of 27.45 square meters is proposed
[6:16:15] for each dwelling unit some
of which is to occur outdoor
[6:16:19] or at grade, and each dwelling
unit will have direct access
[6:16:22] to a private terrace or balcony.
[6:16:24] This exceeds the city's
minimum requirement.
[6:16:27] And it's also noted
[6:16:28] that the subject lands
are located in walking
[6:16:31] and cycling distance to
several trails and parks.
[6:16:34] I did want to also address
comments that were recently
[6:16:38] provided by Amrise, which is an adjacent
[6:16:42] nearby industrial facility
that's located approximately
[6:16:45] 350 meters away.
[6:16:47] So they did provide some comments stating
[6:16:49] that they didn't agree with
the land use classification
[6:16:53] that was assigned to them,
and were interested in
[6:16:56] having a warning clause
included in the agreements
[6:16:59] of purchase and sale
relative to their facility.
[6:17:02] We actually spoke with the MHBC today
[6:17:06] who is representing Amrise.
[6:17:08] And we noted that the
applicant is undergoing
[6:17:12] a peer review process right now.
[6:17:14] There is still work to
be done in that regard,
[6:17:16] and so we have told them that
we'll provide their comments
[6:17:19] to the peer reviewer
[6:17:21] so that they can take
them under advisement
[6:17:23] and work with Amrise to ensure
[6:17:24] that their interests are addressed.
[6:17:26] So I just wanted to raise that as well.
[6:17:36] So staff recommend approval
of the official plan
[6:17:38] and zoning by-law amendment
subject to the regulations,
[6:17:40] modifications, and
holding provision detailed
[6:17:42] in this report for the following reasons.
[6:17:44] The proposed development satisfies matters
[6:17:46] of provincial interest as outlined
[6:17:48] in Section 2 of the Planning Act.
[6:17:50] The proposed development
will conform to provincial,
[6:17:52] regional and city policies with respect
[6:17:54] to land use compatibility,
public health and safety,
[6:17:56] archeology, infrastructure,
and site condition.
[6:17:59] Subject to the recommended
holding provision
[6:18:01] and the implementation
of noise control measures
[6:18:03] and warning clauses.
[6:18:04] The applicant has worked collaboratively
[6:18:06] with Arterra Wines Canada
to develop a proposal
[6:18:08] that addresses the
interests of both parties.
[6:18:10] As a result, the proposed
development will be compatible
[6:18:12] with adjacent land uses,
[6:18:13] including Arterra Wines Canada,
[6:18:15] from air quality, odor, noise,
and vibration perspectives.
[6:18:19] Subject to the recommended
holding provisions
[6:18:21] requiring completion of
the peer review process
[6:18:23] and the implementation
of noise control measures
[6:18:25] and warning clauses.
[6:18:27] The proposed development will not result
[6:18:28] in any adverse sun and wind
impacts following the removal
[6:18:31] of the required quantitative wind study.
[6:18:36] The proposed development
represents an efficient use
[6:18:38] of underutilized land and
will support the creation
[6:18:41] of a complete community
and a vibrant public realm
[6:18:45] by accommodating a mix of land uses,
[6:18:46] including ground floor
commercial along Dorchester Road.
[6:18:49] The proposed development
will help address the rental
[6:18:51] housing supply shortage by
increasing the availability
[6:18:54] of long-term rental housing in the city.
[6:18:57] The supporting studies and materials
[6:18:59] submitted with the application demonstrate
[6:19:01] that the proposed scale
and form of development
[6:19:03] are appropriate for this location
[6:19:05] and can be supported by
the existing transportation
[6:19:07] and infrastructure
subject to the recommended
[6:19:10] holding provision requiring the submission
[6:19:11] of an updated traffic impact study,
[6:19:13] which is to be removed on
a phase by phase basis.
[6:19:16] The proposed zoning and
site specific amendments
[6:19:18] are appropriate for the
area and will facilitate
[6:19:20] an efficient use of land
in a compact built form.
[6:19:23] And the proposed development
will address the concerns
[6:19:25] raised by members of the public.
[6:19:29] In summary, staff recommend
approval of the official plan
[6:19:31] and zoning by-law amendment
subject to the regulations
[6:19:33] and modifications detailed
in the staff report.
[6:19:35] It's also recommended that council include
[6:19:37] a holding provision in the amending by-law
[6:19:39] to require the submission
[6:19:40] of an updated quantitative wind study,
[6:19:42] an updated traffic impact study,
[6:19:43] and the completion of
the peer review process
[6:19:45] associated with the land
use compatibility study,
[6:19:48] screening-level odour assessment and noise
[6:19:50] and vibration impact study.
[6:19:53] Staff also recommend that
council authorizes the inclusion
[6:19:55] of a sunset clause in the amending by-law
[6:19:57] to require the execution
of a site plan agreement
[6:20:00] or receipt of draft plan
and condominium approval
[6:20:03] for the first phase of the development
[6:20:04] within three years of the
amending by-law coming into effect
[6:20:08] with the possibility of
a one year extension.
[6:20:10] Again, that's recognizing
that it's a multi-phase,
[6:20:12] multi-year build out.
[6:20:14] So we're tying that to the
first phase of development.
[6:20:16] And lastly, staff recommend
that council delegates authority
[6:20:18] to the general manager of
planning, building and development
[6:20:21] to approve the implementing by-laws
[6:20:22] at a future delegated meeting.
[6:20:24] Thank you.
[6:20:25] - Thank you, Mackenzie.
[6:20:26] Does any member of council have
any questions for Ms. Ceci?
[6:20:29] I have Councillor Lococo and
Councillor Nieuwesteeg, please.
[6:20:33] - Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[6:20:34] I guess my first set of
questions through the chair
[6:20:36] to Ms. Ceci is regarding the industrial.
[6:20:39] I know that there's a
support letter from Arterra.
[6:20:42] What will happen if a resident,
[6:20:45] even though they sign
their offer to purchase
[6:20:48] and it's on title, what if
a resident does complain
[6:20:51] about noise or odor or
something else to the MOE?
[6:20:56] Does the MOE still have to follow up?
[6:20:58] Because we've had a lot of
discussions around this table
[6:21:00] with industrial and noise.
[6:21:02] And once it goes to the MOE,
[6:21:04] the MOE have to follow up with it.
[6:21:06] So I'm wondering in this
case, what will happen?
[6:21:09] - Through to the Councillor.
[6:21:10] So that is something that the MOE
[6:21:11] would still have to follow
up on regardless of anything
[6:21:14] that would be registered on
title for the subject lands.
[6:21:18] I know that's something
that's been raised in the past
[6:21:19] and is part of some ongoing
discussions with the ministry,
[6:21:22] but at this point they would
still have to take action
[6:21:26] on a complaint.
[6:21:27] - Thank you, so we're in the
same position as a council
[6:21:31] who approves a development
close to an industry,
[6:21:34] even though having all of
the support from Arterra,
[6:21:37] it on title, then signed agreement.
[6:21:40] If there's still complaints,
[6:21:41] we're still in the same process.
[6:21:43] The MOE could go to Arterra
and ask for remediation,
[6:21:46] mitigation, and they
would have to spend money
[6:21:50] to address that?
[6:21:53] - Through you to the Councillor.
[6:21:54] They do have their environmental
compliance approval,
[6:21:58] so potentially that could
be something that occurs
[6:22:02] from the result of that complaint.
[6:22:08] I'm not sure if the general
manager has something to add.
[6:22:10] - Thank you. Your acting
worship to the Councillor.
[6:22:12] So we do our best in
accordance with the D-6.
[6:22:17] That's really all we can do.
[6:22:20] And we do try to listen
to obviously the industry
[6:22:23] and provide comments as
you've heard Ms. Ceci's
[6:22:28] been contacted by another industry.
[6:22:30] So we're trying to do our best to ensure
[6:22:32] the separation is there.
[6:22:33] In this case, given that
Arterra is a class two facility,
[6:22:37] that minimum separation
distance is 70 meters.
[6:22:39] We're now at 100.
[6:22:41] So, you know, we could have
this debate over and over.
[6:22:44] We could provide a 1,000 meters.
[6:22:45] They could still complain.
[6:22:47] So we do have to kind
of balance that with,
[6:22:51] you know, how do we
proceed with development
[6:22:53] while still making sure that
based on the best information
[6:22:56] we have at the time while
you're making the decision,
[6:22:59] that we know the answers.
[6:23:01] And we have experts that reviewed it.
[6:23:02] It's been peer reviewed.
[6:23:04] We have holding provisions to make sure.
[6:23:06] We're doing everything we can.
[6:23:07] But in the end, as Ms. Ceci said,
[6:23:09] if they go above their
noise limits in the ECA
[6:23:12] that they're given and a
complaint's registered,
[6:23:16] it will be on the
industry to correct that.
[6:23:18] - Thank you.
[6:23:19] I just don't want to be in the
position as a council member
[6:23:22] to choose between industry and residents.
[6:23:24] If we put everything in place
and residents still complain,
[6:23:28] and what happens to the
secondary purchaser?
[6:23:30] Yes, it's in the agreement
or a secondary rental person,
[6:23:35] what happens to them?
[6:23:36] So I still have concerns.
[6:23:38] And then the other part
about industrial in there,
[6:23:40] I was concerned about the comments
[6:23:41] that there's 19 industrial
facilities with the current uses
[6:23:44] and there was discrepancy about classes.
[6:23:47] We've talked about industry classes
[6:23:48] over and over and over again.
[6:23:50] And I think it was very apparent in here
[6:23:53] that there's a lot of
discrepancy about which classes.
[6:23:55] So I think we need to fix that.
[6:23:59] The other thing in there,
it talks about the noise
[6:24:03] in the one section on page 14.
[6:24:06] It says it does, it's not
expected to impact the operation
[6:24:10] of Arterra with the
environmental noise compliance,
[6:24:13] but it doesn't talk about odor.
[6:24:15] And I know the report did talk about odor,
[6:24:17] especially during harvest
and the fermentation,
[6:24:20] but I'm just concerned that that clause
[6:24:22] did not talk about odor.
[6:24:24] Is there going to be a problem with that?
[6:24:27] - Through to the Councillor,
[6:24:28] that's something that's still ongoing.
[6:24:29] They've done a preliminary
screening odor assessment
[6:24:32] of the odor impacts.
[6:24:34] They've looked at the wind patterns.
[6:24:36] They're pretty confident based
on the primary wind patterns
[6:24:41] in the area that there
won't be odor impacts.
[6:24:45] We are working with Arterra to
get their dispersion modeling
[6:24:48] so that they could do more
accurate modeling of that.
[6:24:52] And that's what they're working
[6:24:53] through with the peer reviewers.
[6:24:53] So they are confident
that the odor impacts
[6:24:56] would be minimal, and
we would work with them
[6:24:58] to include warning clauses to that effect.
[6:25:02] - Okay, thank you.
[6:25:02] The second topic I had was traffic.
[6:25:05] I know you talked about traffic in there.
[6:25:07] 1,782 units plus mixed commercial.
[6:25:12] We already have complaints
about congestion
[6:25:14] at Morrison Street, and I
know their current conditions.
[6:25:17] We have the train that blocks it off
[6:25:18] and there's huge backup.
[6:25:21] What kind of measures can be put in place
[6:25:24] after with the holding clause?
[6:25:25] What can we do to minimize
those traffic impacts?
[6:25:31] - Through you to the councillors.
[6:25:32] So we've been advised by the
transportation services staff
[6:25:35] that Morrison Street is at
its ultimate right of way
[6:25:40] in terms of the lanes that are there.
[6:25:42] There could be some minor modifications
[6:25:44] to some of the lanes.
[6:25:45] I understand some of
signal optimization there
[6:25:48] that could improve it.
[6:25:50] So that's why we're proposing
that phase by phase removal
[6:25:53] of the holding provision
to ensure that every time
[6:25:56] that they're advancing a new
phase, that we're looking at,
[6:25:59] you know, what are those
current conditions,
[6:26:00] whether that be five years
from now for a second phase.
[6:26:04] You know, how is that intersection
[6:26:06] and how's that road operating now?
[6:26:07] And then what could be done
at that time to address those?
[6:26:10] So we recognize that
there's those concerns
[6:26:13] that were raised with that intersection.
[6:26:14] And that's why we have that
kind of monitoring approach
[6:26:17] implemented into the holding provision
[6:26:19] so that there's that updated
assessment happening.
[6:26:22] - Thank you. Things like
signals, turning lanes.
[6:26:26] What else can be done to
help the traffic flow?
[6:26:30] - Through to the Councillor.
[6:26:32] I believe the applicant
[6:26:33] has their transportation consultant here
[6:26:36] so they can speak a little bit more,
[6:26:37] but the range of what was addressed
[6:26:40] is mostly signal optimization
and turning lanes.
[6:26:43] There's no opportunity to
expand the number of lanes
[6:26:46] within the right of way.
[6:26:47] It's at its ultimate right of way.
[6:26:49] - Okay, next set of questions regards
[6:26:52] the region's comment about
significant wet weather flows.
[6:26:56] And I didn't see that in the holding.
[6:26:59] It talks about that there's
any additional flows
[6:27:01] would have negative impact
and increase overflows.
[6:27:04] That the city and the region
are going to review it.
[6:27:07] Who's paying for that cost to review it
[6:27:10] and to implement whatever?
[6:27:12] What will the developer pay for that?
[6:27:14] - Through to the Councillor.
[6:27:15] So what the regional comments
have come for are saying
[6:27:19] that there's capacity
for dry weather flows.
[6:27:22] So there's no concern
within the existing system.
[6:27:24] The issues are with respect
to wet weather flows.
[6:27:27] And so that's an ongoing issue
that the city is aware of
[6:27:29] and is working with the
region for I&I infiltration
[6:27:33] and inflow reduction programs,
[6:27:35] other programs of that nature.
[6:27:36] So it wouldn't necessarily
be the responsibility
[6:27:39] of the developer as it's
already an ongoing issue,
[6:27:42] but there is capacity from
a dry weather perspective.
[6:27:46] - Okay, through the chair, if
it's not the responsibility
[6:27:49] of the developer and we
have to increase the flows
[6:27:54] and the mitigation there, how
much will that cost the city?
[6:27:57] How much could it cost the city
[6:27:58] because we're having another development
[6:28:00] now we have to fix an issue
that was already there?
[6:28:04] - I would pass it over to Mr. Sticca,
[6:28:07] but he's not here right now.
[6:28:08] So I expect maybe we
can circle back to that
[6:28:11] if we can do that when he returns.
[6:28:13] - [Victor] Perhaps Mr.
Burgess can answer it.
[6:28:15] I don't know if you got the
full gist of the question.
[6:28:18] It was more in regards to nothing-
[6:28:20] - There's pre-construction,
post-construction.
[6:28:22] And if it can't handle it,
is the city responsible?
[6:28:25] And what kind of funding is that,
[6:28:27] that the city would have
to put out to fix that?
[6:28:30] - Yeah, I'm not an engineer.
[6:28:31] I don't play one on TV.
[6:28:31] So as far as the capacity
thing, I will pass that off.
[6:28:34] But like any development,
[6:28:37] you have DC revenue, so incremental.
[6:28:40] In a lot of these cases though,
[6:28:43] there's a lot of existing to benefit.
[6:28:45] So people always point
to, well, you know the,
[6:28:49] you know, there's a new development
[6:28:51] and therefore there, you know, everything,
[6:28:53] that whole new intersection
should be charged to the DC.
[6:28:56] That's not how it works because
there's benefit to existing,
[6:28:59] which takes up a lot of it.
[6:29:00] So the improvement in those intersections,
[6:29:02] a lot of times when we
redo a road, for example,
[6:29:05] we might add a bike lane
and that kind of stuff.
[6:29:06] So the cost is there.
[6:29:08] But as far as funding sources,
[6:29:10] that's always part of our capital plan
[6:29:11] with the development
charges that gets created
[6:29:14] from the development itself.
[6:29:15] So it's designed in a way that, you know,
[6:29:19] the new incremental growth costs
[6:29:21] would come from the development charge.
[6:29:23] And anything that's you
know, benefit to existing
[6:29:26] comes from the tax levy.
[6:29:29] - Okay, thank you. Two more questions.
[6:29:31] At one point, we were
talking about extending
[6:29:33] Morrison Street straight through.
[6:29:36] Would that help in this
instance with all of the traffic
[6:29:39] for this specific development?
[6:29:41] Is that still on the table?
Are we not looking at that?
[6:29:46] Yeah, going over the
highway straight across.
[6:29:48] - I think it was an issue with the MTO.
[6:29:49] I don't know that they would give us-
[6:29:51] - So that's not a us thing.
[6:29:52] - Yeah, that's not in the
near term, 10-year forecast.
[6:29:55] We still have the road right
away, but there is no plans
[6:29:59] and crossing an MTO is
a 400 series highway
[6:30:03] is an expensive process.
[6:30:04] - Okay, thank you. And my last-
[6:30:06] - The roads don't line up either.
[6:30:07] - Oh, okay, I've just heard
that we were considering it,
[6:30:11] so I wanted to think about it.
[6:30:13] The last one, I know
there's no affordable units
[6:30:15] in this development.
[6:30:17] I was wondering our target
is 40% throughout the year.
[6:30:21] Does anyone know where we are in that 40%?
[6:30:24] Have we reached it?
[6:30:24] Because technically there
might be a couple more meetings
[6:30:28] by the end of the year.
[6:30:29] Where are we on that target?
[6:30:31] - Sure. Ms. Dolch?
[6:30:34] - Thank you, acting worship.
[6:30:35] I'd have to look back in
the last quarterly report.
[6:30:37] We do report on it, but I don't
know the exact number today.
[6:30:40] (council member speaking faintly)
[6:30:44] Yeah, and I don't, again, yeah,
[6:30:45] but I am not sure where we are exactly.
[6:30:48] - Okay, thank you, those are my questions.
[6:30:49] I'll have some comments later.
[6:30:50] Thank you.
[6:30:52] - Okay, thanks Councillor Lococo.
[6:30:53] I have Councillor Nieuwesteeg next.
[6:30:55] And I'll try to get (indistinct)
[6:30:56] with when he comes back in the room
[6:30:57] to answer that one question.
[6:30:59] - Thank you. Thank you
for your presentation.
[6:31:02] A lot of my questions were already asked
[6:31:03] through Councillor Lococo.
[6:31:06] And one of them goes back
to the industrial piece.
[6:31:09] This one's a little bit different
[6:31:10] than the other industrial
ones that we've looked at,
[6:31:12] and I'm very appreciative
that Arterra sat down
[6:31:14] and they looked at having a
memorandum of understanding.
[6:31:17] I think that's a really good factor.
[6:31:19] But one piece that's unique here
[6:31:20] is that we have a highway right there.
[6:31:22] The highway presents a
lot of the same factors
[6:31:24] that industry does in terms
of noise, vibration, odor.
[6:31:30] Is that given some consideration as well?
[6:31:32] Because we're focused on all
these different industrial,
[6:31:35] the 19, but there's a highway
that sits right there.
[6:31:38] How does that factor into this?
[6:31:40] - Through the chair to the Councillor.
[6:31:42] So the MTO has been
circulated on the application.
[6:31:45] But in particular with respect to noise,
[6:31:47] so that was actually the driving factor,
[6:31:50] the highway noise for some
of the elevated noise levels.
[6:31:53] It actually wasn't Arterra.
[6:31:56] But in our experience
[6:31:57] and from what their
acoustical engineer has stated
[6:32:01] is that they're satisfied that
through building components.
[6:32:04] So that might be triple
pane windows you know,
[6:32:07] different building facade types,
as well as through the use
[6:32:10] of air conditioners that
they'd be able to mitigate
[6:32:15] those noise levels.
[6:32:15] So from a noise perspective,
[6:32:17] we're confident that
that's been covered off.
[6:32:19] One of the items that's being addressed
[6:32:20] through the holding provision
still is the quantification
[6:32:24] of transportation related air pollutants.
[6:32:28] And that's what the peer
reviewer had brought up
[6:32:29] is that that hasn't really been done yet.
[6:32:32] And so that's something that
we're going to have them
[6:32:34] look into in more detail.
[6:32:37] and we'll work through
that with the peer reviewer
[6:32:40] as well as the applicant.
[6:32:42] - Through you, a second question.
[6:32:44] And I'm moving over to traffic.
[6:32:46] You said the holding, the H
will be removed phase by phase.
[6:32:50] So as they're doing a,
[6:32:51] they're phase by phase, you
will start to remove it.
[6:32:53] This is a major investment
from the developer.
[6:32:55] So I'm not quite sure that
they would start developing
[6:32:58] and we're going to hold in
H as they keep developing.
[6:33:00] And then what if they get to phase one
[6:33:02] and then we don't lift the other H.
[6:33:05] What would that look like?
[6:33:08] - Through to the Councillor.
[6:33:09] So that might be something
that the developer
[6:33:11] can comment on in terms
of that, but you know,
[6:33:15] it's a potential reality
that might happen.
[6:33:18] They might modify their the phases
[6:33:20] in terms of how many units
they're bringing online
[6:33:23] based on what can be
accommodated in the interim.
[6:33:26] So we've done that.
[6:33:28] We've seen that with the
region in other developments,
[6:33:31] for example, in Riverfront
where, you know,
[6:33:33] there's a threshold of
where maybe a traffic signal
[6:33:37] would be required, et cetera.
[6:33:39] So it's a little bit different context,
[6:33:40] but they would be aware
and be able to model
[6:33:43] kind of what those
thresholds would look like.
[6:33:45] And then that's something
[6:33:46] that they might be able to comment on
[6:33:47] in terms of their receptiveness to that.
[6:33:50] - Another question on the traffic.
[6:33:51] You said something about there's
like a standard of traffic,
[6:33:54] like we're not operating at the ideal.
[6:33:56] What is, like, do we have a,
[6:33:58] is there a standard out there
in terms of what an ideal
[6:34:01] traffic system should look like?
[6:34:03] So our residents have
the right expectation
[6:34:05] of what that should look like
and things aren't being held?
[6:34:08] - So I can give a brief overview
[6:34:10] and I might ask for the
developer's consultant
[6:34:13] to weigh in, but I believe
in the region's guidelines
[6:34:16] for the traffic impact studies,
[6:34:18] they look at a a level of service E,
[6:34:21] and I believe that that's
pretty much at capacity.
[6:34:24] So when you start going into
an F, then that would be,
[6:34:29] you know, an alarming kind of component.
[6:34:32] But so that you're kind of in the range
[6:34:34] from like an A to an E, and
those would have varying levels
[6:34:37] of capacity still left.
[6:34:38] You might have some delays,
some acceptable delays.
[6:34:41] That's about the range
[6:34:42] of what I'd be able to
kind of stay on that.
[6:34:45] - So where are we right now?
[6:34:46] Because you're saying
we're not operating at.
[6:34:49] - It's probably more at a level E.
[6:34:52] And that's what they're arguing is to say
[6:34:56] that that will exist
regardless of the development
[6:35:00] coming online in the future
[6:35:01] when they're looking at
the future total conditions
[6:35:03] and that there are some
expected additional delays
[6:35:07] as a result of that.
[6:35:09] And I'll leave it to
their traffic consultant
[6:35:11] to comment on that, in addition.
[6:35:14] - And another question,
what is the current tax?
[6:35:16] I'm not sure if you can answer that.
[6:35:18] The tax levy that we're receiving
[6:35:20] on that vacant piece
of property right now.
[6:35:21] I know we had their
presentation in terms of what
[6:35:26] the projected tax revenue
is, but what is it currently?
[6:35:30] - [Jim] Do we have that staff?
I don't know, Ms. Clark?
[6:35:33] Who would know that? Current levy?
[6:35:36] - I apologize. Your worship,
I don't have that figure.
[6:35:40] I'd have to look it up.
[6:35:42] Or if the finance
director would look it up.
[6:35:44] - Yes, the acre site.
[6:35:48] (staff member speaking faintly)
[6:35:49] Okay. They don't have
that at their fingertips.
[6:35:51] - Okay. No, just curiosity. Okay.
[6:35:54] I think I've asked all my
questions. Thank you very much.
[6:35:57] - Okay. Any other questions
of council for staff?
[6:36:02] Okay. All right. So we're
good. Thank you very much.
[6:36:11] So members of the public
are advised that failure
[6:36:14] to make an oral or written submission
[6:36:16] at this public meeting could result.
[6:36:18] (council member speaking faintly)
[6:36:20] Yeah, I will. Okay.
[6:36:22] Actually, just before I do this,
[6:36:24] for anybody that may be here,
[6:36:25] we've already announced it twice.
[6:36:27] I'll announce it again.
[6:36:28] For anyone here for the
Grassy Brook secondary plan,
[6:36:32] it's been deferred.
[6:36:34] It's not going to be
dealt with until November.
[6:36:38] So if there's anybody here for that,
[6:36:39] I don't want you having
to stick around all night
[6:36:41] waiting for it.
[6:36:43] We've had technical difficulties
with our computer system,
[6:36:46] and it wasn't available with ample time.
[6:36:50] So it will be dealt with in November.
[6:36:53] So if anybody's here
for that, I apologize.
[6:36:56] So now, back to this meeting,
[6:36:59] members of the public
are advised that failure
[6:37:01] to make an oral or written
submission at this public meeting
[6:37:03] could result in the Ontario Land Tribunal
[6:37:05] dismissing any referral that it receives.
[6:37:09] Council will now hear from
anyone other than the applicant
[6:37:13] who wishes to speak to
the proposed amendments.
[6:37:16] Mr. Clerk, do we have anybody registered?
[6:37:19] - Yes, Your Worship.
[6:37:21] Glenny and Anthony Hines had registered.
[6:37:27] - If you could just state
your name and your address,
[6:37:29] and then you've got up
to five minutes, welcome.
[6:37:32] - Thanks Mr. Mayor. My name's Glenn Hines
[6:37:36] and I'm a owner resident
at 5100 Dorchester Road.
[6:37:40] Mr. Mayor, Councillors ladies
and gentlemen, good afternoon.
[6:37:43] Thanks for the opportunity
to speak this afternoon.
[6:37:47] My wife and I are owners of a
condo at 5100 Dorchester Road,
[6:37:53] the eight story building across
the road, across Dorchester,
[6:37:58] from the proposed development.
[6:38:00] Between the railway crossing
and the QEW on-ramp.
[6:38:03] I speak today not as a
representative of any formal group
[6:38:07] but as a concerned property
owner and on behalf of neighbors
[6:38:10] who've asked me to share their views.
[6:38:13] We made representation in writing
[6:38:15] during last year's consultation
that Ms. Ceci spoke of,
[6:38:19] and I trust that those comments
are on the official record.
[6:38:22] Five minutes allows me just enough time
[6:38:23] to address at a high level the concerns
[6:38:25] that have not been adequately addressed
[6:38:28] in the amended proposal
and the city staff report.
[6:38:33] As we're aware, the
developer at 5259 Dorchester
[6:38:36] proposed a significant high-rise complex
[6:38:39] that necessitates a large
number of amendments
[6:38:42] and variances.
[6:38:43] The applicant seeks an official plan
[6:38:46] and zoning by-law amendment
[6:38:47] to change the designation
from major commercial
[6:38:50] to residential and to rezone the land
[6:38:53] from shopping center
commercial to a site-specific
[6:38:56] residential 5F zone permitting buildings
[6:39:00] of up to 25 stories high,
1782 units, commercial space,
[6:39:05] and maintenance buildings,
240 units per hectare,
[6:39:10] which is well beyond the city's official
[6:39:12] current maximum density
of 150 units per hectare.
[6:39:16] We first learned of this
proposal last August
[6:39:19] after a fellow resident
contacted planning staff
[6:39:21] and after noticing survey
activities on the grounds.
[6:39:24] Adjacent industry, Arterra,
as we've already heard,
[6:39:27] had been consulted.
[6:39:29] However, nearby residents
had not at that time.
[6:39:32] Public meetings followed
in October and December,
[6:39:35] but many questions remain
unanswered at this time.
[6:39:40] The 45-page staff report
was only made available
[6:39:43] to the public a little over 24 hours ago.
[6:39:47] Our concerns fall into
several clear categories.
[6:39:50] First, traffic, the recently
released traffic study proposes
[6:39:55] mitigation measures to manage
the significant increase
[6:39:58] in the traffic along
Dorchester-Morrison Corridor,
[6:40:01] but it does not adequately
address the increased volume
[6:40:04] of traffic along the
entirety of Dorchester Road,
[6:40:08] predominantly a two-lane thoroughfare
[6:40:10] through residential and school areas.
[6:40:12] At the Dorchester-Dawson intersection,
[6:40:14] there's three southbound and a turn lane
[6:40:17] and two northbound and a turn lane.
[6:40:19] However, this wide piece of
sectional corridor only exists
[6:40:24] between Morrison and
Frederica Royal Manor.
[6:40:27] The rest of Dorchester is a two-lane
[6:40:30] residential thoroughfare.
[6:40:33] It does not appear that traffic studies
[6:40:35] account for the rest of Morrison
[6:40:37] and all of the other
traffic in the neighborhood
[6:40:39] that is generated.
[6:40:41] Residential density along
Dorchester has increased
[6:40:43] over the past few years with
the addition of apartments,
[6:40:46] townhouses, and garden homes
without any noticeable measures
[6:40:49] to improve traffic flow.
[6:40:51] The staff recommended the
removal of the holding provision
[6:40:54] required an updated traffic impact study
[6:40:57] on a phase by phase basis.
[6:40:59] It may be supportable if the
phases are adequately defined,
[6:41:03] but we don't know what phases are.
[6:41:05] And if the city commits
to acceptable incremental
[6:41:07] traffic mitigation measures
in a timely manner.
[6:41:11] No phase should be allowed to progress
[6:41:13] without mitigation measures underway
[6:41:15] addressing the previous phase's impact.
[6:41:19] As identified in last year's consultation,
[6:41:21] there's only a single entry
and exit point on Dawson.
[6:41:24] The proposed emergency
access that was brought out
[6:41:28] in the amendment is
acknowledged and appreciated.
[6:41:30] However, as noted, it's
contingent on the MOT approving
[6:41:35] the access point that
close to the on-ramp.
[6:41:38] For obvious reasons,
it's highly recommended
[6:41:41] that no residential development
of the site be approved
[6:41:44] until the MTO has granted this approval
[6:41:47] or a second means of entry
and egress is identified.
[6:41:51] We've already heard about
noise and quality of life.
[6:41:54] Residents already
experience significant noise
[6:41:56] from the QEW Highway
420 and Dorchester Road,
[6:41:59] particularly on summer weekends.
[6:42:02] Adding more than a
thousand vehicles to this
[6:42:04] will intensify the
impact on existing homes.
[6:42:09] One thing that doesn't show up
[6:42:11] in the developer's proposal is utilities.
[6:42:19] When it comes to hydro and communications,
[6:42:24] the area already experiences
frequent hydro interruptions.
[6:42:27] Any approval should
require clear commitments
[6:42:30] from the relevant utilities
that capacity exists
[6:42:35] to serve the additional load
without degrading service
[6:42:38] for current residents.
[6:42:41] Construction impacts.
[6:42:43] Two levels of underground
parking have been proposed.
[6:42:47] They may require substantial excavation
[6:42:49] and possibly even blasting.
[6:42:52] And we ask for specific assurances
[6:42:53] that neighboring foundations
and underground structures,
[6:42:56] including those at 5100 Dorchester,
[6:42:59] will be protected and that monitoring
[6:43:01] and mitigation measures
will be put in place.
[6:43:05] Snow management and wind.
[6:43:07] We've heard a little bit about the wind.
[6:43:09] The snow clearance from the site
[6:43:11] and the Dawson Street extension
[6:43:12] must not spill into the
municipal rights of way.
[6:43:15] Wind effects on drifting
and the accumulation
[6:43:18] around the site also need
to be considered properly.
[6:43:21] They were treated very lightly
in the supporting studies
[6:43:23] and in the staff report.
[6:43:26] That brings me to project
delivery and risk.
[6:43:29] Developments of this
size carry a real risk
[6:43:32] of delay or abandonment.
[6:43:34] The request to suspend
the normal sunset clause
[6:43:37] is concerning.
[6:43:38] And if the proponent is
confident in the proposal,
[6:43:41] a clear and enforceable
completion timeline
[6:43:44] should be put in place.
[6:43:46] Incomplete or stalled projects
become long-term blights
[6:43:49] on a community.
[6:43:50] We've seen it elsewhere in the city,
[6:43:52] particularly Stanley
Avenue and in Chippawa.
[6:43:55] One only has to look at 6705 Cropp Street,
[6:43:59] right on our back door to see what happens
[6:44:02] when a site is not completed
in a timely manner.
[6:44:06] The staff recommendation to
invoke a phase sunset clause
[6:44:09] is noted with phase one
being subject to a three year
[6:44:12] execution timeframe with a
possible one year extension.
[6:44:16] However, nowhere in the
report are phases defined.
[6:44:21] In fact, the word phase is used 19 times
[6:44:23] in the staff report,
[6:44:24] 17 of which pertain to
construction phases.
[6:44:28] Given the variety of activities,
[6:44:30] including traffic improvements
and other approvals
[6:44:32] that depend on phases,
as we've heard today,
[6:44:35] it's requested that these be spelled out
[6:44:37] and the developer be required
to perform within them
[6:44:40] inside that 10 year forecast
construction timeline.
[6:44:45] Beyond these site specific issues,
[6:44:47] locating a high density
residential complex
[6:44:49] at the intersection of two major highways
[6:44:51] raises legitimate questions
about air quality,
[6:44:54] noise exposure for future residents.
[6:44:58] The application itself notes
that mitigation measures
[6:45:01] will be required.
[6:45:03] These factors deserve thorough assessment
[6:45:05] and a commitment by the developer
[6:45:07] before any decision is made.
[6:45:09] I want to be clear.
[6:45:10] Most of us are not opposed to
the redevelopment of the site.
[6:45:14] We support efforts to increase and improve
[6:45:17] the housing supply in Niagara Falls.
[6:45:20] What we ask is that
the legitimate concerns
[6:45:22] of existing residents and
owners be given proper weight
[6:45:25] and that any approval
be conditional on clear
[6:45:28] and forcible solutions to the issues
[6:45:30] that have been raised
in earlier consultations
[6:45:33] and again today.
[6:45:34] A more modest proposal
that respects the scale
[6:45:37] of the surrounding area and addresses
[6:45:39] these practical concerns
would be most welcome.
[6:45:42] Mr. Mayor, Councillors, thank
you very much for your time.
[6:45:44] - Thank you, just before you leave,
[6:45:45] any questions for Mr. Hines?
[6:45:48] Okay. No, we're good. Thank you very much.
[6:45:50] - Thank you.
[6:45:51] - Is there anyone else
other than the applicant
[6:45:52] who wishes to address
council on this matter?
[6:45:57] Okay, seeing none,
[6:45:59] Councillor Nieuwesteeg we did
get an answer from Ms. Clark
[6:46:03] on the property taxes,
[6:46:04] on that property currently
as it sits vacant.
[6:46:08] - Yeah, sorry through Mr.
Mayor when I walked in,
[6:46:10] I wasn't sure what property
we were talking about,
[6:46:12] but at 5259 Dorchester,
[6:46:14] they're currently 220,000 for total taxes.
[6:46:17] So region, city and province.
[6:46:20] - [Ruth-Ann] And our city
then is what, 37% of that?
[6:46:24] - Yeah, our city portion
would be about 37% of that,
[6:46:27] which is about 81,000.
[6:46:30] - Thank you.
[6:46:32] - Okay, thank you. Did you
want to speak to this proposal?
[6:46:35] Okay, yeah, if you'd want to come forward,
[6:46:36] state your name address,
and up to five minutes.
[6:46:41] - Aras Raci, resident of Niagara Falls.
[6:46:43] As you know, I come to
all the council meetings,
[6:46:45] so I have a benefit of seeing
a lot of conversations,
[6:46:48] and I actively lobby on behalf
of millennials and Gen Z.
[6:46:52] Housing affordable, it is significantly,
[6:46:54] it's a big issue in this city.
[6:46:56] And as you know, 20 years ago,
if you want to buy a house,
[6:46:58] you could work for a year
or two and save money
[6:47:00] and have that down payment.
[6:47:01] But right now, you need to save work
[6:47:04] and save for multiple, multiple years,
[6:47:06] and at the end you have to
go to Bank of Mom and Dad
[6:47:08] to be able to help you
to put the down payment.
[6:47:11] What I like about this
particular proposal project
[6:47:13] is that it's a purposeful rental.
[6:47:16] I mean, we all hope for ownership,
[6:47:19] but unfortunately, I
think if we don't have it.
[6:47:22] The next best thing will
be residential rental.
[6:47:26] And this proposal technically
[6:47:30] could be a commercial property,
[6:47:31] so they could create significantly
more noise and hassle
[6:47:34] for the neighborhood.
[6:47:35] So at least it will be residential.
[6:47:38] But also, just want to
briefly mention something
[6:47:41] that this morning we had a conversation
[6:47:43] about housing affordability.
[6:47:44] We had that city gives away the land.
[6:47:46] So some organization comes build 80 houses
[6:47:50] for some one who lives
out in the bright side.
[6:47:52] But if this proposal goes on
multiple phases, you know,
[6:47:56] first one's hundred, 200, 300, 400,
[6:47:58] each tower basically built,
I think significant number
[6:48:01] of housing will be supplied to our city,
[6:48:03] and it's not going to cost taxpayers.
[6:48:05] The burden is not on a taxpayers
[6:48:07] and city's not giving
away the land that it has,
[6:48:09] to some organization with the promise
[6:48:11] of I'm going to build something.
[6:48:13] And finally, I wanted to
say that I have my tax bill
[6:48:16] with me, and here it shows
that 50% of the taxes
[6:48:20] that we are paying, because people see
[6:48:22] the City of Niagara Falls as invoice comes
[6:48:24] as City of Niagara Falls.
[6:48:26] And even my neighbors go,
"I'm paying the taxes."
[6:48:28] But the reality is 54% is regional taxes.
[6:48:33] 9% are education, only 37%
is the City of Niagara Falls.
[6:48:38] Only 37% are decided in this room.
[6:48:42] And out of that 37%,
[6:48:43] significant portion of it is fixed costs.
[6:48:46] So we can't change it.
[6:48:47] And I've seen all these council meetings.
[6:48:49] Everybody comes here.
My taxes is too much.
[6:48:52] Services that I want to use,
[6:48:53] you don't want to spend
enough money in it.
[6:48:54] And the services that I
don't use cut them out.
[6:48:58] So I don't envy the position
of the council to saying that,
[6:49:01] you know, it's not an
easy decision to make.
[6:49:04] But I wanted to bring this up
[6:49:06] because as our CAO this morning mentioned,
[6:49:08] you either had to cut your
cost or increase your revenues.
[6:49:11] And just imagine if you have
these thousand rental incomes,
[6:49:14] the property tax on top of
that will be significant.
[6:49:18] And I know I'm interested about housing
[6:49:20] for younger millennials and Gen Z,
[6:49:22] but intensification.
[6:49:24] I understand make local neighbor
[6:49:25] who's maybe not have a concern about it.
[6:49:27] I totally get it.
[6:49:28] But I've been come to all council meeting
[6:49:30] and see that houses being built at places
[6:49:32] right next to residential,
right next to single stories.
[6:49:36] But as part of the official new
plan, when these rapid buses
[6:49:39] that are going on that street,
this is going to be great
[6:49:42] for millennial and Gen Z.
[6:49:44] This is going to be great in
terms of income for our city.
[6:49:47] Because again, either we have
to expand our urban boundary,
[6:49:52] which is significantly cost,
or right next to highway.
[6:49:55] Again, I understand the traffic issues.
[6:49:57] I live around that
neighborhood. I know it.
[6:50:00] But the people who are buying
these kind of properties,
[6:50:02] they have access to transport
[6:50:04] so they can get into the
highway and go to the jobs.
[6:50:07] So that just sums up my
interest in this projects
[6:50:11] in behalf of younger people
who definitely need rental.
[6:50:17] And I will wish all the best
for the proposal for developers
[6:50:20] because again, a lot of projects,
[6:50:22] they do their best and they
never get off the ground.
[6:50:24] But nonetheless, I wanted
to mention that I think
[6:50:27] this is a great rental project
for younger generation.
[6:50:30] Thank you very much.
[6:50:32] - Thank you. Thank you very much.
[6:50:34] Is there anyone else
other than the applicant
[6:50:36] who wishes to address council?
[6:50:39] Okay, yep, if you'd like to come forward
[6:50:42] and state your name and your address,
[6:50:44] and up to five minutes.
[6:50:46] - Good afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Worship.
[6:50:47] My name's Roderick McCray. I
live at 6822 Keefer Street.
[6:50:51] I did email some comments
to Ms. Ceci last week,
[6:50:54] but I just wanted to
comment on a couple things
[6:50:57] that were brought up.
[6:50:58] Specifically water, stormwater drainage.
[6:51:02] I know that it was mentioned that the area
[6:51:04] is operating at capacity,
[6:51:06] but I want to point out the
north end of Niagara Falls
[6:51:08] and Niagara region is
operating within capacity.
[6:51:11] And look what happened a couple weeks ago.
[6:51:13] Climate change is real. It's happening.
[6:51:16] Storms like that are
going to happen more often
[6:51:18] and with more intensity.
[6:51:20] And I feel like any new projects
[6:51:23] should have an increase
in capacity to plan ahead.
[6:51:26] And another question, concern that I have
[6:51:30] that I didn't see addressed
was no matter what happens
[6:51:33] with the site, what will be
put in place for the rodents
[6:51:37] that live in that field.
[6:51:39] I walk my dog along
Dorchester Road quite often,
[6:51:43] and I see rats going in and
out of that field all the time.
[6:51:46] As soon as construction starts,
[6:51:47] they're going to start
migrating into the neighborhood.
[6:51:50] And I would like to know
[6:51:51] if there's going to be a plan for that.
[6:51:54] - [Jim] Okay, when we get the applicant,
[6:51:56] we can ask that question.
[6:51:57] - Okay.
- [Jim] Thank you.
[6:51:58] - Thank you.
[6:51:59] - Thank you. Did I see another hand?
[6:52:02] Yeah, if you'd like to come
forward. Just state your name.
[6:52:08] Just state your name and your address,
[6:52:09] and up to five minutes.
[6:52:12] - It's Joan McDougall. I
live at 5100 Dorchester Road.
[6:52:15] - [Jim] What was the last name? I'm sorry.
[6:52:17] - McDougall.
[6:52:18] - [Jim] Okay. McDougall. Thank you.
[6:52:19] - I just wanted to
address what he had to say
[6:52:21] about the rentals being
for the younger people,
[6:52:24] millennials and such.
[6:52:25] And when it had said that the rentals
[6:52:27] would be for high income,
[6:52:29] I don't believe that the people
that would be living there
[6:52:32] would be of younger generation
given our employment
[6:52:36] and what people make in this area.
[6:52:39] I'm 58 years old and I don't have a job.
[6:52:43] And given that the income for here
[6:52:46] is generally minimal wage, minimum wage,
[6:52:49] I don't think that's the people
[6:52:50] that would be living in those rentals.
[6:52:52] So I don't think you're
correct in that assumption.
[6:52:56] - [Jim] Well, if you just
direct your comments this way.
[6:52:58] - I just wanted to, in regarding that.
[6:53:00] And I'm just very
disappointed in the extent
[6:53:04] of what those buildings are
going to be at that height.
[6:53:08] I just worry about that I
don't think the city's equipped
[6:53:12] to maintain for fire departments at that.
[6:53:16] And I hope that this council will address
[6:53:18] additional fire departments given,
[6:53:20] I know this isn't what we're
discussing at this point,
[6:53:23] but given all the building
that is being maintained
[6:53:25] in this city, thank you.
[6:53:26] - [Jim] Okay. Thank you very much.
[6:53:28] (object crashes)
[6:53:29] - [Joan] Sorry.
[6:53:30] - Is there anybody else other than that?
[6:53:32] Yeah, if you'd like to come forward.
[6:53:37] Again, just state your,
your name, your address.
[6:53:40] Up to five minutes.
[6:53:41] - [Audience Member] Good that
you have built that building.
[6:53:43] - Yeah, I know. My name's Mark Primorano.
[6:53:46] I own the plaza right across the street
[6:53:48] from the development, 6843 Dawson Street.
[6:53:52] I have three tenants in the building.
[6:53:54] I have a restaurant, a hair salon,
[6:53:55] and actually a cash money
store where you go to an office
[6:54:00] to talk about lending money.
[6:54:03] I think this is going to
help tremendously my tenants.
[6:54:07] As you know, the economy's not great
[6:54:09] and a lot of people aren't
going out that much for dinners
[6:54:11] and different things, but you
know, for my tenant situation
[6:54:16] I think they'll be really happy
once the building is built.
[6:54:20] And I support the development.
[6:54:23] I think it'll help Niagara a lot
[6:54:26] to have this type of style and look.
[6:54:29] I'm also a realtor,
[6:54:30] so I know a lot about
different developments.
[6:54:33] I think it's going to enhance the city,
[6:54:34] but good question about
how much is paying now
[6:54:37] on vacant land tax
versus when this is done.
[6:54:41] I'd like to hear that answer tonight.
[6:54:42] If you can bring that
up, that would be awesome
[6:54:44] because I think this will help the city
[6:54:46] a lot financially too.
[6:54:49] That's it.
[6:54:50] - Thank you. Yeah, maybe
staff can work on that number.
[6:54:52] I don't know what the
property taxes may be
[6:54:54] once it's developed out.
[6:54:56] - [Staff Member] A range. It's in there.
[6:54:57] - It's in there. What was the number?
[6:55:00] - So through you Mr. Mayor, in
the applicant's presentation,
[6:55:02] I noticed in slide 15 the estimated taxes
[6:55:06] said they would be 5.5 million.
[6:55:07] I'm not sure how they calculate that,
[6:55:09] but I'm assuming that's total taxes.
[6:55:11] So the city's portion would
be approximately two million.
[6:55:14] - Okay. Factor of 10.
Okay, thank you for that.
[6:55:17] Is there anyone else who
wished to address council?
[6:55:21] Okay, seeing none, we'll
now hear from the applicant
[6:55:25] or his or her representative.
[6:55:48] - Good afternoon, Your
Worship members of council.
[6:55:51] My name's Rocky Vacca, for the record,
[6:55:53] partner at Sullivan
Mahoney, appearing on behalf
[6:55:56] of the applicant and its
principal, Angelo Butera Sr.
[6:56:00] With me, I have Michael Allen,
[6:56:02] project architect from ACK Architects,
[6:56:05] Nicholas Godfrey and Barb Weens,
[6:56:07] from Upper Canada Consultants.
[6:56:09] They are the planning consultants.
[6:56:11] And Greg Louie from Paradigm,
who is the traffic consultant
[6:56:15] who is available to address any questions.
[6:56:18] Just to give you a roadmap
of our presentation,
[6:56:20] I will be providing
some preliminary remarks
[6:56:23] followed by Nicholas and Barb,
[6:56:25] who will review the planning
merits of the application
[6:56:28] and address the comments in opposition.
[6:56:31] Then followed by Michael,
who will provide an overview
[6:56:33] of the architectural
design of the project.
[6:56:36] And then I'll be back to review
the financial implications
[6:56:38] of the development.
[6:56:42] Sorry.
[6:56:43] - [Jim] Rocky smile.
[6:56:47] (audience chuckles)
[6:56:50] - Got it?
[6:56:52] (audience chuckles)
[6:56:55] - [Jim] It's only Rocky, you
guys don't have to worry.
[6:56:56] It's only Rocky.
[6:56:58] (audience chuckles)
[6:57:00] - Finally, I'll be available
to answer any questions
[6:57:02] arising from the presentation.
[6:57:04] To begin, the applicant
[6:57:05] is part of the Panoramic
Properties Group of Companies,
[6:57:08] led by Angelo Butera Sr.
[6:57:11] Panoramic Properties is a
privately owned Canadian
[6:57:13] real estate and property
management company.
[6:57:16] Specializing in residential housing
[6:57:18] with a significant presence in Ontario,
[6:57:21] Quebec, and Nova Scotia.
[6:57:23] Founded in 1985 by Angelo Butera Sr.
[6:57:26] it has grown into one
of the larger private
[6:57:29] residential landlords in all of Canada.
[6:57:31] With over 13,500 purpose-built
residential rental units.
[6:57:38] Currently, it is in the
process of constructing
[6:57:40] five towers in Sudbury,
totaling 1,100 units,
[6:57:44] a six-story tower in Elmira with 76 units.
[6:57:48] And it's ready to begin construction
[6:57:50] on two 14-story towers
at Kalar and McLeod Road,
[6:57:54] which this council approved,
consisting of 450 units.
[6:57:58] The company's head office
is in Niagara Falls
[6:58:01] in the Montrose Business Park,
[6:58:03] and it currently employs over 700 people.
[6:58:06] I'm giving you this background
because often I hear
[6:58:09] that developers get
approvals but don't build.
[6:58:12] Mr. Butera is not one of those developers.
[6:58:15] He gets approvals and he builds.
[6:58:18] His track record speaks for itself.
[6:58:21] The proposed development of nine buildings
[6:58:23] totaling 1,782 units will
be the largest project
[6:58:28] Panoramic has ever done.
[6:58:30] It has extra meaning to the Butera family
[6:58:32] to complete this project
in their hometown.
[6:58:36] Now, this project has gone
through a long and winding road
[6:58:38] over the past two years.
[6:58:40] I would be remiss if I
didn't thank city staff
[6:58:43] and the public for traveling
with us along that road
[6:58:47] and challenging us to address
[6:58:49] all public comments and concerns.
[6:58:51] I sincerely believe we have done so.
[6:58:55] I'd like to give special
thanks to Mayor Diodati,
[6:58:58] for helping us to facilitate discussions
[6:59:00] with our neighbors at Arterra Wines.
[6:59:03] Those discussions led to
substantial changes to the project
[6:59:06] over the past couple of months
to address Arterra's concerns
[6:59:11] and receive Arterra's blessing.
[6:59:13] And I know there was some
comments about what impact
[6:59:16] this will have on Arterra if
the MOE receives complaints.
[6:59:22] I believe Arterra is,
they're sophisticated.
[6:59:24] They're an international
company. They're big boys.
[6:59:27] They're confident that
what's being put in place
[6:59:31] and what we've agreed to in
the memorandum of understanding
[6:59:34] will work and will
result in no complaints.
[6:59:38] Arterra recently celebrated
their 150th anniversary.
[6:59:42] They're not going anywhere.
[6:59:44] And Panoramic is looking
forward to working with Arterra
[6:59:47] in the development of this
project in a safe, efficient,
[6:59:50] and mutually beneficial manner.
[6:59:53] I confirm that we have reviewed
[6:59:54] the staff recommendation report
[6:59:56] and accept the recommendations but,
[6:59:59] are seeking confirmation
that the time period
[7:00:01] for the sunset clause
does not begin to run
[7:00:04] until the H on the zoning is lifted.
[7:00:07] Recommendation three
states within three years
[7:00:09] of the amending by-law coming into effect,
[7:00:13] which suggests that the
time period begins to run
[7:00:15] as soon as the by-laws passed.
[7:00:17] But legally, no development can proceed
[7:00:19] until the H is lifted.
[7:00:21] No developer is going to go down the road
[7:00:23] of a site plan agreement
until the H is lifted.
[7:00:26] So that could be a year, it
could be two years, who knows?
[7:00:30] So I'd like for it to
read within three years
[7:00:33] of the H being lifted
from the amending by-law.
[7:00:36] That's the only amendment we're seeking.
[7:00:39] I will now pass it on to
Michael, Nicholas, and Barb,
[7:00:41] to continue the presentation,
[7:00:42] and I'll be back at the end.
[7:00:49] - Good afternoon, mayor, council, staff,
[7:00:51] and members of the public.
[7:00:53] I'm Nicholas Godfrey,
[7:00:53] Senior Planner with
Upper Canada Consultants.
[7:00:56] And I'll give you a quick overview
[7:00:57] in addition to what Mackenzie said.
[7:00:59] Just provide some additional context
[7:01:01] and purpose behind the development.
[7:01:03] So as mentioned, the subject site
[7:01:04] is at 5259 Dorchester Road,
[7:01:07] and it occupies a
strategic transition point
[7:01:09] within the urban area.
[7:01:12] It's bounded by major
infrastructure corridors,
[7:01:14] commercial areas, industrial uses,
[7:01:16] and established residential areas.
[7:01:19] The subject lands are to the west
[7:01:20] of the Burdette Dawson neighborhood
[7:01:22] and are within proximity to
key transportation routes,
[7:01:26] including the QEW, Highway 420,
[7:01:28] and are also serviced by
regional transit bus stops
[7:01:31] on both sides of Dorchester Road.
[7:01:33] Dorchester Road is also an arterial road.
[7:01:36] They're accessible by automobile,
[7:01:37] active transportation with sidewalks
[7:01:39] on both sides of Dorchester Road
[7:01:41] and on one side of Dawson Street,
[7:01:43] and it's also in proximity
[7:01:44] to the Millennium Recreational Trail.
[7:01:46] They're within a five-minute drive
[7:01:48] or a 15-minute walk of commercial
and lifestyle amenities
[7:01:51] along Dorchester Road,
[7:01:52] and at the intersection of Dorchester Road
[7:01:54] and Morrison Street.
[7:01:56] These areas cater to daily needs
[7:01:58] with numerous retail stores,
restaurants, grocery stores,
[7:02:02] medical offices, and
employment opportunities.
[7:02:05] There's also a mix of residential uses,
[7:02:06] including apartments,
townhouses, stacked townhouses,
[7:02:09] and single detached dwellings.
[7:02:13] So the previous concept
featured a minimum setback
[7:02:15] of 70 meters from the property
line shared with Arterra.
[7:02:20] And this was supported by the
submitted land use analyses
[7:02:23] that we submitted during
our original application.
[7:02:25] This proposal included
a total of 1,782 units
[7:02:28] and had the following site features:
[7:02:30] five residential buildings,
[7:02:32] three mixed use commercial
residential buildings,
[7:02:35] and two storage buildings.
[7:02:36] It also included significant
outdoor amenity spaces,
[7:02:39] rooftop amenities, and balcony areas.
[7:02:41] It also includes two levels
of underground parking
[7:02:44] and surface parking.
[7:02:52] The revised concept features
a minimum 100 meter setback
[7:02:56] for most buildings with
some positioned upwards
[7:02:58] of 160 meters away.
[7:03:00] The updated development
features nine buildings
[7:03:02] and 1,782 units.
[7:03:04] There's four residential buildings,
[7:03:06] two of which feature a shared podium,
[7:03:07] so these present as
six buildings in total.
[7:03:10] Two mixed use commercial
residential buildings,
[7:03:12] one standalone commercial
building, two storage buildings,
[7:03:16] and as well, we've increased
the outdoor amenity area
[7:03:19] to provide that additional
buffer to our Arterra's lands.
[7:03:21] And we're still providing the
same amount of amenity area
[7:03:24] in the building and
including rooftop balcony
[7:03:28] and interior amenity spaces.
[7:03:30] As well, it still continues
to feature two levels
[7:03:32] of underground parking
and surface parking.
[7:03:36] So what we heard during
the original design
[7:03:38] is several issues of
concern that were raised.
[7:03:42] One of which was traffic and circulation,
[7:03:44] which you've heard about tonight.
[7:03:45] So potential traffic increases
[7:03:47] and the risk of cut-through traffic
[7:03:48] utilizing existing residential streets.
[7:03:51] We heard about the emergency access
[7:03:52] and lack of emergency options to the site.
[7:03:55] We heard about construction impacts
[7:03:57] regarding timing and duration
of construction activities.
[7:04:00] We heard about potential shadowing impacts
[7:04:01] on surrounding properties.
[7:04:03] We heard about strains on
existing sanitary sewer capacity
[7:04:06] and infrastructure capacity.
[7:04:08] We heard about scale and density issues
[7:04:10] and the overall density of
the proposed development
[7:04:12] on the surrounding neighborhood.
[7:04:14] And we heard about the
industrial compatibility issues
[7:04:16] with Arterra's property.
[7:04:20] So to address these issues,
[7:04:21] some of the changes we've made to the plan
[7:04:23] under traffic and circulation
include a recommended redesign
[7:04:27] of Dorchester Road and Dawson Street
[7:04:30] to deter cut through
movements onto Dawson Street.
[7:04:33] We've also recommended potential
traffic calming measures
[7:04:35] for the city to consider in
the existing neighborhood
[7:04:39] should the city wish to do so.
[7:04:41] And we've also recommended
dedicated travel lanes
[7:04:44] for the Arterra to access their
property on Dawson Street.
[7:04:50] Regarding emergency access,
[7:04:51] we have provided emergency
access as has been noted
[7:04:55] regarding construction impacts.
[7:04:56] As discussed, we will be phasing the site
[7:04:59] to minimize construction impacts,
[7:05:00] and it will be phased as well
[7:05:03] as part of the holding provisions
[7:05:05] under the traffic impact study.
[7:05:06] We will be undertaking a phasing strategy.
[7:05:09] Regarding shadowing, the
majority of shadow impact
[7:05:11] are actually internal to the site.
[7:05:13] And the remainder of the shadow impacts
[7:05:15] are reduced from the original design
[7:05:18] and are primarily late in the
day and later in the season
[7:05:20] in the winter months.
[7:05:23] And regarding infrastructure,
[7:05:25] the FSR, which was reviewed by staff,
[7:05:27] has determined that there is
sanitary capacity available.
[7:05:30] And with the enhanced amenity area,
[7:05:32] we also have additional
stormwater management strategies
[7:05:35] that we can incorporate on the site.
[7:05:38] Regarding scale and density,
[7:05:39] so we consider this a key locational node
[7:05:42] that can support increased density.
[7:05:44] It's walkable to existing shopping
[7:05:45] and employment opportunities.
[7:05:47] It's on a transit route.
[7:05:48] There's active transportation available.
[7:05:50] It's on an interior roadway.
There's good highway access.
[7:05:53] And we're providing open
space and amenities on site
[7:05:56] to provide additional
lifestyle quality of life
[7:06:00] for the people moving into this property.
[7:06:03] And then regarding
industrial compatibility.
[7:06:06] So we've increased residential setback
[7:06:08] to Arterra Wines' property.
[7:06:10] We are proposing a dedicated
travel lane to Arterra Wines
[7:06:13] to maintain traffic flow.
[7:06:16] The land use compatibility
study has recommended
[7:06:18] mitigation measures
that will be implemented
[7:06:19] as part of the detailed site plan stage.
[7:06:21] And we also have demonstrated
[7:06:23] commitment to work with
Arterra as demonstrated
[7:06:25] through the executed
memorandum of understanding
[7:06:29] that Butera have agreed to with Arterra.
[7:06:32] So I will hand it off to Michael now
[7:06:34] to speak more clearly
about the design intent.
[7:06:41] - Good afternoon, Your Worship,
[7:06:42] members of council and staff.
[7:06:46] I'm going to be as quick as I can,
[7:06:47] because I know, you've
probably heard a lot of this.
[7:06:50] But going through the concept
[7:06:51] and the design of it,
[7:06:52] obviously, Dawson Creek is
the principal access point
[7:06:56] into the development, and as noted,
[7:06:58] is going to be redesigned to accommodate
[7:07:00] the industrial building with it.
[7:07:02] But the concept itself was
starting at the Dawson Creek
[7:07:05] where we're proposing a
four-story commercial building
[7:07:08] with enhanced landscaping
terraces and so forth.
[7:07:11] The objective there is
to create the definition
[7:07:13] at that intersection starting
along the Dorchester Road.
[7:07:19] Moving to the south of it,
[7:07:20] we're proposing the
two mixed use buildings
[7:07:22] that'll be the podium design
with commercial on grade
[7:07:26] with, again, pedestrian
access, pedestrian terraces
[7:07:30] and so forth connecting to
Dorchester helping us to create
[7:07:34] that definition and
articulate the street facade
[7:07:37] at Dorchester Road.
[7:07:38] The remainder of the residential buildings
[7:07:41] are along the southern
portion of the property,
[7:07:43] stepping towards the
westerly, done intentionally
[7:07:47] so that we step the
buildings from the 14 stories
[7:07:50] to the 24, 25 stories
[7:07:52] as we move west away from the
existing residential fabric
[7:07:57] along Dorchester Road.
[7:07:58] And as you can see from
the original proposal
[7:08:01] to what we're at to today, there
is excessive greenery space
[7:08:05] left in the core of the
property, done intentionally
[7:08:08] so that we can integrate an
enhanced landscaping plan,
[7:08:12] amenity space, gardens and so forth
[7:08:16] for the property residents.
[7:08:18] But it's also as we get into
the site plan agreement,
[7:08:20] we've got excessive space to incorporate
[7:08:22] and work with the stormwater management
[7:08:25] as we're going through that design.
[7:08:28] Notably as well, the
buildings are being designed
[7:08:31] and strategically positioned on the site
[7:08:34] so that we take into
consideration the viewpoints
[7:08:37] and the privacy of not
only within our property,
[7:08:40] but from the surrounding
properties as well.
[7:08:42] And I'll explain that to you
[7:08:43] in a little more detail shortly.
[7:08:48] As noted, there will be two
levels of underground parking
[7:08:51] that will accommodate
1,754 vehicles underground.
[7:08:56] We will also be accommodating
375 surface parking spaces
[7:08:59] that will be strategically
laid out throughout the site
[7:09:02] with the landscaping plan as well,
[7:09:04] so we're not looking at
just a sea of asphalt.
[7:09:06] Total spaces of 2,129 spaces.
[7:09:12] So as I noted the buildings
that are being designed
[7:09:15] and strategically positioned
[7:09:17] to consider the privacy vantage points,
[7:09:21] and illustrated here, it's
more so with the angular plane.
[7:09:25] The angular plane is never
impeded at any portion
[7:09:28] of our property boundary
[7:09:30] as it's adjacent to a
neighboring property.
[7:09:34] As you can see in the
illustration, the first one
[7:09:36] is a section along
Dorchester looking westerly.
[7:09:40] Primarily, it gives you a viewpoint
[7:09:41] of the angular plane from
the Arterra property,
[7:09:44] and you can see the
development is well within
[7:09:47] the angular plane boundaries.
[7:09:50] I took a section further into the site
[7:09:52] as the buildings get taller.
[7:09:54] That's where we're at, the 24, 25 stories.
[7:09:57] And again, that's where
we've increased the setback
[7:09:59] of 160 to 161 meters to
the industrial property.
[7:10:03] Again, you can also see
that we're well within
[7:10:05] the angular plane boundaries.
[7:10:09] Now in consideration
of the taller buildings
[7:10:12] looking northerly, it's more
so to show a a cut section
[7:10:16] through Dorchester at the very far right.
[7:10:18] Again, you can see from Dorchester Road
[7:10:21] and the properties across the street,
[7:10:23] the buildings are within
the angular plain boundary.
[7:10:27] And then as we cut it
closer to the existing
[7:10:30] residential tower,
[7:10:32] again, you'll see the angular
plane is well respected
[7:10:35] with the core of the property being left
[7:10:38] for the landscaping enhancements
within the property.
[7:10:45] So as the designs of the buildings
[7:10:47] in the site go into further
detail and development,
[7:10:51] the main objective of our
proposal is to create and define
[7:10:55] a pedestrian scale along Dorchester.
[7:10:58] This will be achieved with
the commercial podiums
[7:11:01] that we're proposing for
the mixed use buildings
[7:11:03] and the commercial buildings.
[7:11:05] It will also be done through
the combined landscaping,
[7:11:09] the pedestrian accesses,
and the pedestrian terraces.
[7:11:11] The development then as
noted, will step inwards
[7:11:15] away from the existing
residential fabric that exists.
[7:11:21] So notably, and no one will argue the fact
[7:11:24] that Dorchester is a busy street,
[7:11:26] but the design standpoint,
it is very important
[7:11:28] that the development enhances
the pedestrian interaction
[7:11:32] along the street edge within the property
[7:11:35] and within the existing community.
[7:11:39] So the development, as everyone
is aware, is being built,
[7:11:43] operated, and maintained
by Panoramic Properties
[7:11:45] as a rental community.
[7:11:47] Notably, all of Panoramic's
developments are built,
[7:11:51] run, and maintained at a
level of condominium status.
[7:11:56] And so what I mean by this is
the amenities, the services,
[7:12:00] the features that are within the site
[7:12:03] and within the buildings are
what you would actually expect
[7:12:05] to see in condominiums, but
this is for a rental complex.
[7:12:11] So you'll see such things
as lounges, party rooms,
[7:12:14] theater rooms, fitness
facilities, rooftop terraces,
[7:12:19] gardens and so forth, and
self-storage on the property,
[7:12:23] and as well, its own maintenance facility
[7:12:26] on this property to service it.
[7:12:28] And that is for not only for us,
[7:12:30] but for the property
owner is very important
[7:12:32] because maintaining it
to a higher standard
[7:12:34] will allow this community
to thrive and grow.
[7:12:37] So with that, I'm going to
hand it back to Mr. Vodka
[7:12:40] to conclude the presentation,
[7:12:41] then we'll answer any questions
after that. Thank you.
[7:12:44] - [Audience Member] You said vodka.
[7:12:46] Mr. Vodka, you called him Mr. Vodka.
[7:12:50] (audience chuckles)
[7:12:55] - The only thing with clarification
[7:12:56] we wanted was on Dawson's Creek.
[7:12:58] We weren't sure exactly where that was.
[7:13:00] Maybe you can help us.
[7:13:01] Okay, thank you.
[7:13:05] - [Audience Member] Is
it Mr. Vodka, tell us.
[7:13:09] - Thank you, Michael.
[7:13:11] So I am now in my 30th year of practice,
[7:13:14] and from my experience,
[7:13:15] I believe this is one of the largest,
[7:13:17] if not the largest mixed use
project ever brought forward
[7:13:20] in the City of Niagara
Falls, if not in the region.
[7:13:24] It is truly a legacy project
[7:13:26] for the Butera family in their hometown.
[7:13:30] Now, dealing with the
financial impacts schedule
[7:13:33] that's before you, so just
some stats and figures.
[7:13:40] The total project cost is
estimated at $757,350,000.
[7:13:53] The soft costs, sorry,
[7:13:55] development charges are going
to be just under 67 million.
[7:14:00] Building permit fees, 11,355,000.
[7:14:05] And the property tax
figure, that's incorrect,
[7:14:08] the 5,500,000.
[7:14:12] At 1,782 units, if we
assess it at four to 5,000
[7:14:18] taxes per unit, which is quite easily
[7:14:21] going to be the number, plus
the commercial component of it.
[7:14:26] I believe around 5,000
is the city's portion
[7:14:30] of the total property taxes.
[7:14:31] $5 million would be the city's portion
[7:14:34] of the property taxes.
[7:14:37] Dealing with employment,
[7:14:40] the project will have
3,000 total construction,
[7:14:44] sorry, three million
total construction hours.
[7:14:47] I feel like I've been drinking vodka.
[7:14:49] (audience chuckles)
[7:14:50] Three million total construction hours.
[7:14:53] And the generated employment
income throughout the project
[7:14:56] would be $165 million.
[7:15:04] And in terms of total employment
income for the employees
[7:15:12] who will remain on the site
ongoing for maintenance
[7:15:15] and for the commercial
component of the site,
[7:15:18] we're looking at $13 million
in income for the employees.
[7:15:24] So those are the financial figures.
[7:15:26] You heard that roughly
right now you're getting
[7:15:28] about $81,000 in property
taxes for this vacant parcel
[7:15:33] that's been vacant for quite a while.
[7:15:35] The Loblaw's Group owned it for decades.
[7:15:38] They had planned a shopping
mall on that property,
[7:15:42] gave up on that idea.
[7:15:44] The Butera Group bought the property.
[7:15:47] And I know there's worries about impact,
[7:15:50] but the studies that remain to be done
[7:15:52] will deal with whatever
I's need to be dotted
[7:15:58] or Ts need to be crossed.
[7:15:59] So just for the benefit of the neighbors,
[7:16:03] please feel confident that
this project will not proceed
[7:16:07] until your staff is confident that we have
[7:16:10] crossed all the T's
and dotted all the I's.
[7:16:13] And that's going to take time.
[7:16:14] And that's why, again, we're requesting
[7:16:17] that the sunset clause be worded
[7:16:19] so that it doesn't start
ticking until the H is lifted.
[7:16:23] It's going to take us
a while to lift that H.
[7:16:29] And those are my comments.
[7:16:30] Subject to any questions you may have,
[7:16:32] we have our traffic
consultant here as well.
[7:16:35] - Okay, thank you.
[7:16:36] So I've got Councillor
Nieuwesteeg, Dabrowski,
[7:16:38] Patel, Lococo.
[7:16:40] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[7:16:41] And thank you to all for the presentation
[7:16:44] and to the developers.
[7:16:46] What a way to end our council term
[7:16:48] with an absolutely fabulous
project ahead of us.
[7:16:51] I mean, I say that because
we looking at a possibility
[7:16:54] of 3,000 new residents.
[7:16:56] I particularly see a lot of seniors.
[7:16:58] I know Aras was talking about youth,
[7:17:00] but I see seniors and this
being a great place for seniors
[7:17:04] because of the location.
[7:17:06] So easy to walk to all the amenities.
[7:17:08] I know this is the
second project this year
[7:17:10] that Mr. Butera brought to us.
[7:17:11] And it's location, location, location.
[7:17:14] And absolutely, I was
writing down all the things
[7:17:16] that you can get to very easily.
[7:17:19] Now, when we're talking about traffic,
[7:17:21] so I envisioned if I was
living there and I had a car,
[7:17:24] if I had to go anywhere
other than the Dorchester,
[7:17:26] so this can help.
[7:17:27] We talk about mitigating traffic.
[7:17:29] I would jump on the
highway because the highway
[7:17:31] where we are right
there can get you across
[7:17:33] the city very easy.
[7:17:34] Where I could see it
being a bit of an issue
[7:17:36] is if I'm trying to go over to Zehrs,
[7:17:37] if I wanted to go get pet food,
if I want to go to Staples
[7:17:41] or the Dollar Store or the
accountants or the lawyers
[7:17:44] or everything else that's over there,
[7:17:46] that's where the traffic would be.
[7:17:47] Now, if we go back to that
first slide that Mr. Allen
[7:17:50] had at the beginning where
you showed us that nice
[7:17:54] one more, back a few more.
[7:17:58] Back, back. When you had the
green space there, there.
[7:18:01] So why, and you're paying,
[7:18:03] well, if you're giving
us $5.5 million in taxes,
[7:18:06] I'm sure you're giving the
region a far more than that.
[7:18:09] Why could you not deal with the region
[7:18:11] and have a bus system
come in and loop around?
[7:18:15] Are the roads in there large enough
[7:18:17] to have a city bus come in?
[7:18:20] Because if they go over
to the Zehrs Plaza,
[7:18:22] they have a bus depot there.
[7:18:23] That way people, especially
seniors making it attainable,
[7:18:25] they may not even have to have a car then.
[7:18:28] They could hop on the bus
there, go pick up their...
[7:18:31] Which might be too heavy
for them to carry it back,
[7:18:32] and get on the bus there
because it loops right back in.
[7:18:35] It's not like they have to
walk from Dorchester Road
[7:18:37] into the complex.
[7:18:39] Is that a possibility?
[7:18:43] - Through Your Worship I think
that's a great suggestion.
[7:18:46] So to answer your initial question is,
[7:18:48] yes, a bus can travel through that site
[7:18:50] because we've got it to
accommodate the fire route.
[7:18:53] So I think that's something
we would definitely look at,
[7:18:55] something we'd be considering
at the site plan agreement
[7:18:58] to integrate those kind of things with it,
[7:18:59] but I think it's a great suggestion.
[7:19:01] - All right. And continuing on from there.
[7:19:04] And I do want to go on about the fact
[7:19:07] that you've worked with and
that's been a big pet peeve
[7:19:10] of ours on council, this
industrial versus residential.
[7:19:13] However, and a lot of times what we find
[7:19:15] is the residential people end up there
[7:19:17] and they're not aware of
these other industries.
[7:19:20] But in this case, there
is a highway right there.
[7:19:23] So if nothing else tells you,
[7:19:24] and it's right in your face,
there's going to be noise,
[7:19:27] there's going to be odor,
there's going to be vibration.
[7:19:28] That's going to tell you right there.
[7:19:30] If I'm choosing to live there,
[7:19:31] I've got to be expected to
deal with some of those things.
[7:19:35] I want to talk about the, you know,
[7:19:37] the taxes we've talked about
[7:19:37] going from 81,000 to a $5 million.
[7:19:40] And that for all of us
means a lot of less taxes.
[7:19:43] So when we're looking at what
we increased just last year,
[7:19:45] basically that would
have covered our increase
[7:19:48] last year in our own tax dollars, so.
[7:19:50] And that equals almost
25% of our OLG funding.
[7:19:53] So this is a significant
infusion of tax dollars
[7:19:56] or tax dollars as well
as infusion to dollars,
[7:19:59] which Mr. Primorano talked about.
[7:20:02] Having said that though,
we do have the residents,
[7:20:04] and I want to speak to
Mr. Hines' questions.
[7:20:06] I thought you made a great presentation.
[7:20:08] You do have some questions that
I think need to be addressed
[7:20:11] and they haven't all been talked about.
[7:20:14] So when we talking about the
phases, and we heard phases,
[7:20:17] I think you quoted 19 times,
[7:20:19] is it possible that those
phases can be explained
[7:20:22] for the residents so that they
understand what that means?
[7:20:26] - Through Your Worship.
So absolutely it can.
[7:20:28] Usually we get into more detail
[7:20:30] when we get into the site plan agreement,
[7:20:31] and I appreciate everyone's
concern at the zoning stages.
[7:20:37] Appreciate from our standpoint
that the concept design,
[7:20:40] and that's what it is.
[7:20:42] This is real. We know we can do it.
[7:20:44] We get into the detailed design of it
[7:20:45] and we can start integrating the phases
[7:20:48] as we're looking at it.
[7:20:48] We have to sit down with the developer.
[7:20:51] And for us, it's very strategic
[7:20:53] where we either start at Dorchester,
[7:20:55] work our way through
the site and back out,
[7:20:58] or we start at the back and
work our way out to Dorchester.
[7:21:01] It's a financial thing
that we got to look at
[7:21:03] and see what's the most
expedient way to do it.
[7:21:06] Regardless, the one comment
that was brought up,
[7:21:08] in a development of this magnitude,
[7:21:10] you have to do pre and
post construction surveys.
[7:21:14] So we would be analyzing,
monitoring all the way around
[7:21:18] the areas for the people
that would be impacted
[7:21:20] by this type of development.
[7:21:22] Putting in the dust control measures,
[7:21:24] the construction measures schedules,
[7:21:27] because it has to be done
[7:21:28] so you just can't drive
trucks in and out of the site.
[7:21:30] As you see at the hospital, for example,
[7:21:32] they've got construction gates
[7:21:34] scheduled for coming and goings.
[7:21:38] The rodent issue was brought up.
[7:21:40] So for example, that also
would have to be dealt with
[7:21:43] at site plan agreement,
[7:21:44] but in larger developments of this scale,
[7:21:46] a rodent control plan
has to be put in place.
[7:21:50] Something we don't deal with at zoning
[7:21:52] because we're dealing with
zoning matters with it,
[7:21:54] the more critical things
with respect to servicing
[7:21:57] and things of that nature.
[7:21:59] And part of the work through
the city with the neighbors,
[7:22:02] why we've done a change,
[7:22:04] a fairly significant change in the design,
[7:22:07] literally a month or so before
we had to come to council.
[7:22:10] So you can only imagine the
hurrying behind the scenes
[7:22:15] trying to get things back to you guys.
[7:22:17] So that's part and parcel
why we're even requesting
[7:22:20] the hold zone on some of these studies
[7:22:22] so that we can get into the
detailed aspect of mitigating
[7:22:25] the winds and things of that nature.
[7:22:28] - And you'll be dealing
with residents how long?
[7:22:30] It's just, it's a great. We
don't want it to go back.
[7:22:33] - It's a must.
[7:22:34] - And so I'm just hoping that Mr. Hines
[7:22:36] and the residents will feel comfortable
[7:22:38] that they're not going to
be ignored through this.
[7:22:41] Because the city's going to
benefit immensely from this.
[7:22:45] And I appreciate the fact that
they don't want to stop it.
[7:22:47] They're just asking for consideration.
[7:22:49] And you know, like for blasting,
here it said in your report
[7:22:52] that blasting wasn't going to be an issue,
[7:22:54] but they're a little concerned.
[7:22:56] So as long as we can make
sure they're accommodated
[7:22:59] through this whole process.
[7:23:00] - And rightfully so.
[7:23:03] The geotechnical, we don't have stone
[7:23:05] and not to be blasting through.
[7:23:06] We have enough dirt to dig down with
[7:23:08] with the geotechnical aspect.
[7:23:10] But again, as we're moving forward
[7:23:11] and a construction
schedule is put in place
[7:23:15] the construction management aspect of it
[7:23:17] would notify the neighbors
and the surrounding
[7:23:19] as to what's going, and the
schedule of constructions.
[7:23:22] And I think we've kind of proved
[7:23:23] that we are willing to
work with the neighbors.
[7:23:25] And what I mean by that is,
[7:23:27] we actually had three information
meetings on this project.
[7:23:30] The very first one we had
[7:23:32] was actually two and a half years ago.
[7:23:34] We actually had nobody
show up to the site.
[7:23:37] And that's not,
[7:23:37] I don't want to get into
the ins and outs about it.
[7:23:40] And we found out that there was a mix up
[7:23:41] with the control board or the condo board.
[7:23:44] So my client obliged to have
another one at his expense.
[7:23:49] That one was on us because
we decided to do a format
[7:23:51] that we thought was going
to be a little more informal
[7:23:53] to have a discussion.
[7:23:55] And as I recall, Councillor
Lococo was at it.
[7:23:59] And we really didn't get a
chance to discuss and engage
[7:24:03] with the residents.
[7:24:05] So at their request and
at my client's cost,
[7:24:08] we had another one.
[7:24:09] So we've had three information meetings.
[7:24:13] And then extensive meetings
with your staff and the mayor.
[7:24:17] So we're proven that we
want to work with the city
[7:24:21] and the neighbors to make this a success.
[7:24:23] - There was another comment
Mr. Hines made about utilities,
[7:24:26] the hydro communication.
[7:24:28] Will that be dealt with as well
[7:24:30] so there is no interruption
or disruption today?
[7:24:35] - Absolutely, so at site plan,
again, when we get into it,
[7:24:37] we've got to start engaging
with hydro and so forth.
[7:24:40] We're actually doing a project right now
[7:24:41] in St. Catharines where we're
having to bring in more power
[7:24:43] into the site.
[7:24:44] This is not a cost to the residents.
[7:24:46] This is not a cost to the city.
[7:24:48] If by chance they've got
to get power to the site
[7:24:50] for different transformers and so forth,
[7:24:52] that's at the development cost.
[7:24:53] The objective is that
there is no interruption
[7:24:55] to the services to the residents.
[7:24:57] And that's part of the
memorandum with Arterra
[7:25:00] is they cannot have any
interruption with regards to water,
[7:25:04] drainage, or power.
[7:25:05] That industry must keep
operating twenty four seven.
[7:25:08] So it's prudent upon us to
make sure that it works.
[7:25:12] That's also when we get into
the phasing of the development,
[7:25:15] we have to make sure that we
just don't do a little phase
[7:25:17] and then find out, oops,
we've got to make sure
[7:25:19] that we have everything there
[7:25:20] so that as we phase it
through, it's a plug and play.
[7:25:24] - Okay, and the final
comment that Mr. Hines made
[7:25:26] was about having a hole in the ground.
[7:25:28] This is one development I don't fear
[7:25:31] that we're going to have that issue.
[7:25:32] So I feel confident in that.
[7:25:35] And I thank you for all your answers
[7:25:36] and I hope that the residents
are satisfied with the answers
[7:25:41] that they've been given so far.
[7:25:43] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[7:25:44] - Thank you. Councillor
Dabrowski, Patel, and Lococo.
[7:25:47] - Thank you. Through you.
Thanks for the presentation.
[7:25:49] Exciting development.
[7:25:50] I've driven past that parcel
of land for over 40 years,
[7:25:53] and I always feel like it's
the last piece of the puzzle
[7:25:55] for the north central part of the city.
[7:25:57] And to make sure we get that
[7:25:59] last piece of the puzzle correct,
[7:26:00] I'm still unsure after the presentation
[7:26:03] I heard from a couple of residents,
[7:26:05] which demographic you're
actually targeting,
[7:26:07] whether it be seniors or
Gen X or young families.
[7:26:11] Regardless, the open
space, the green space
[7:26:14] is part of the site plan.
[7:26:15] Do you envision a parkland?
[7:26:17] Because if it is seniors,
a lot of seniors babysit
[7:26:19] their young grandchildren.
[7:26:21] If it's young families, they'll
utilize that park space.
[7:26:24] But when I look at that area,
[7:26:25] the closest park I think is Cherry Hill.
[7:26:27] But you're essentially building
a mini city within a city.
[7:26:30] So I'm just wondering what the plans are
[7:26:31] for that green space and
have you thought of that?
[7:26:34] And what demographic are
you actually targeting
[7:26:36] for this development?
[7:26:39] - Yeah, I don't think there's
a specific demographic
[7:26:41] we're targeting.
[7:26:42] I mean, I can tell you our
discussions with Arterra,
[7:26:45] they were very interested in the fact
[7:26:47] that they're expanding their operations
[7:26:50] and they could have their
employees live next door.
[7:26:54] They were very excited with that fact.
[7:26:56] So, you know, that demographic
would be younger you know,
[7:27:00] maybe a bit older, but not seniors.
[7:27:04] My understanding of the
projects that Butera family
[7:27:06] have done elsewhere, there
really is a mix of demographics.
[7:27:11] Mr. Allen would know better than I would.
[7:27:12] He's been involved in most of them,
[7:27:14] but there really is a mix.
[7:27:15] In terms of the open space,
[7:27:18] that's going to be during site plan stage.
[7:27:22] It's up to you whether you want park
[7:27:25] or do you want cash in lieu.
[7:27:26] We'd prefer to have a park there.
[7:27:29] But that's something that you're
going to have a big say in.
[7:27:32] And I can tell you our preference
[7:27:34] would be to have a park there.
[7:27:35] It only improves the entire site,
[7:27:37] makes it more beneficial
for the residents.
[7:27:41] And so that's about all
I can say at this point.
[7:27:47] (council members speaking faintly)
[7:27:50] - It's growing.
[7:27:51] And this feels like it's the
last piece of the puzzle.
[7:27:53] So I'm in support of it, and
thanks for being here today.
[7:27:55] - Thank you.
[7:27:56] - Thank you. Councillor Patel.
[7:27:58] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[7:27:59] To add to what Councillor
Dabrowski said, you know,
[7:28:02] years ago there was the
Acres building sitting
[7:28:03] there empty and it was abandoned.
[7:28:05] And finally they took it down
[7:28:06] and now something is going in that area.
[7:28:08] So actually it's great
[7:28:09] that something's going into that area.
[7:28:11] My question for you, Mr. Vacca,
[7:28:12] is this application has clearly evolved
[7:28:14] through consultation.
[7:28:16] What would you identify as
the most significant changes
[7:28:19] made in response to concerns raised
[7:28:21] by Arterra residents and/or staff?
[7:28:23] What was the major improvement?
[7:28:25] - Well, the major change vis-a-vis Arterra
[7:28:28] was to give greater separation
from their operation.
[7:28:32] So the original plan had it at 70 meters
[7:28:38] which is the minimum distance
separation for class two.
[7:28:42] And we've now increased it so that
[7:28:45] all the buildings are at
least a hundred meters away
[7:28:48] and some are as far as
171, I believe, 161.
[7:28:51] 161, so that was a major
part of what came out
[7:28:55] of our discussions with Arterra.
[7:28:56] They wanted more separation
[7:28:59] and we were able to give
them more separation.
[7:29:02] In fact, I think a
benefit of that discussion
[7:29:05] was you now have the
majority of the buildings
[7:29:10] basically backing onto the highway
[7:29:12] as opposed to in the middle of the site.
[7:29:14] And I think that helps
the neighborhood as well.
[7:29:17] You now have an eight
and 14 story building
[7:29:22] on Dorchester across from the existing
[7:29:25] eight story condo building.
[7:29:27] And you have the greater
height along the perimeter
[7:29:29] backing onto the highway.
[7:29:31] Now further away from those neighbors
[7:29:33] because it's no longer in
the middle of the site,
[7:29:36] it's on the perimeter.
[7:29:37] So I think that was a big improvement
[7:29:40] to the project.
[7:29:42] - Thank you, and I love the green space
[7:29:44] between all the buildings and parking.
[7:29:47] Will the neighborhood, like
can neighbors will be able
[7:29:51] to use the park if they want
to come from across the street?
[7:29:53] - Absolutely,
[7:29:54] yeah it's not going to
be a private condominium.
[7:29:56] It'll be open to the public
[7:29:59] and you're going to have a say
[7:30:00] in terms of what you want to see there.
[7:30:02] If you want to see a
parquette, cash in lieu,
[7:30:05] or if you want to see a large park,
[7:30:07] you're going to have that say.
[7:30:09] - Perfect, thank you,
and one last question is,
[7:30:12] it is the one of the biggest
development in our city,
[7:30:15] in this site.
[7:30:16] What makes this site perfect?
[7:30:18] You think you can build this
development somewhere else?
[7:30:20] Is it possible to move this
development somewhere else
[7:30:23] or this site is what
makes this development?
[7:30:25] - If you look at a map of
the City of Niagara Falls,
[7:30:28] it's almost dead center in the city.
[7:30:31] You have commercial around it.
[7:30:34] You have easy access to the highway
[7:30:36] if you want to go towards Toronto,
[7:30:39] or if you want to go towards Fort Erie,
[7:30:41] or if you want to go
towards the Tourist Centre.
[7:30:45] Everything's right there.
[7:30:46] So I think we'd be hard pressed
to find a better location
[7:30:51] for this type of development
in the City of Niagara Falls,
[7:30:54] maybe even in the region, quite frankly.
[7:30:56] I just think it's a great site.
[7:30:58] I'm really happy Loblaws didn't proceed
[7:31:00] with their development because
it would have been another
[7:31:02] large shopping center at that location.
[7:31:07] Asphalt, as Councillor Kerrio said,
[7:31:10] as opposed to having 1,782 families
[7:31:14] living in purpose-built
rentals in a great location.
[7:31:18] - Thank you, and as we
know that there's a holding
[7:31:21] on the zoning application,
[7:31:24] especially for the traffic mitigation.
[7:31:26] So what happens if this traffic mitigation
[7:31:30] doesn't go the way we want it to go?
[7:31:33] - Well, we're going to have to comply
[7:31:35] with whatever comes out of that report.
[7:31:38] So if there's mitigation
we need to put in place,
[7:31:41] then we're going to have to do it.
[7:31:42] Otherwise, this development
doesn't proceed.
[7:31:45] We're confident that the
Hs will all be lifted.
[7:31:49] Our consultants are all confident
[7:31:51] that the reports they're going to provide
[7:31:54] will be satisfactory.
[7:31:56] So we have no concern with that.
[7:31:57] The problem, Councillor Patel, is time.
[7:32:01] And that's why a sunset
clause starting three years
[7:32:03] from when this by-law is approved,
[7:32:05] quite frankly, is not
fair for this development.
[7:32:07] Not at all.
[7:32:08] You have commercial developments
[7:32:10] that are not nearly as large as this,
[7:32:13] and you give them four years
plus two year extensions.
[7:32:18] And here, you know, we're
stuck with three years
[7:32:21] plus one year at the discretion
of the planning director
[7:32:25] in a situation where we
have an H on our zoning
[7:32:29] until we complete at least three studies.
[7:32:32] So that's the reason why I'm
requesting either, you know,
[7:32:35] don't start the clock until
the Hs are all lifted,
[7:32:39] because we're not going to
start designing the buildings
[7:32:41] and going through site plan
until the Hs are lifted.
[7:32:44] So that's dead time.
[7:32:46] So again, we're asking
that the three years
[7:32:49] start from when the Hs are lifted.
[7:32:52] - That kind of makes sense to
me, but thank you very much.
[7:32:54] - Thank you.
[7:32:55] - Thank you. Councillor Lococo.
[7:32:57] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
I had a few questions.
[7:32:59] We've talked about numerous times
[7:33:01] that it's purpose-built
rental, but yet in the report
[7:33:05] it talks about offers to purchase
and any of the purchasers.
[7:33:08] Through the mayor to Mr. Vacca.
[7:33:10] Can we just clarify that?
[7:33:13] - I think staff requires that
[7:33:15] because you could start
as purpose built rentals
[7:33:19] and then over time you
could convert the buildings
[7:33:21] into condominiums and then sell the units.
[7:33:25] So that's a further safeguard
[7:33:27] that in the development agreement,
[7:33:30] it will cover off
warning clauses in leases
[7:33:33] and warning clauses in
any future agreements
[7:33:35] of purchase and sale.
[7:33:37] - Okay, great. Thank you.
[7:33:38] - And that's also something
that quite frankly,
[7:33:40] Arterra requested as well,
that it be dealt with in leases
[7:33:43] and any future agreements
of purchase and sale.
[7:33:47] The Butera family has no interest
in converting these units
[7:33:51] and selling units.
[7:33:52] That's not the business they're in.
[7:33:54] They do purpose built rentals.
[7:33:56] They manage their properties.
[7:33:58] So I think there's no risk of
that happening, quite frankly.
[7:34:01] - Thank you.
[7:34:02] I want to go back to the three years
[7:34:07] starting it when the H is lifted.
[7:34:09] Maybe through the mayor to Ms. Dolch
[7:34:11] or other planning staff.
[7:34:13] What is your recommendation?
[7:34:15] Are you okay with that?
[7:34:15] They're asking, but we haven't
really talked to you yet.
[7:34:19] - Thank you, Your Worship,
through you to the Councillor.
[7:34:21] So I do have concerns with it
[7:34:23] and I know they did ask us earlier today.
[7:34:28] And my concern is just
that there's no time limit
[7:34:31] on the removal of the holding.
[7:34:33] So they could take four
years, five years, six years.
[7:34:36] I don't know.
[7:34:38] Obviously we do know that the
builder is an active builder,
[7:34:41] but I just caution on that fact.
[7:34:45] I think with the three plus
one years I'm happy to amend
[7:34:48] the sunset policy that we have,
[7:34:51] a planning policy that we
have to include study work
[7:34:54] should that they need the
additional year extension,
[7:34:57] that study work would be a factor.
[7:34:59] Happy to amend that
internal policy for that
[7:35:02] so that they would qualify
for that additional extension
[7:35:05] should the study work take
longer than anticipated.
[7:35:07] But most of the study work is an addendum
[7:35:09] to the original work just
based on the updated concept.
[7:35:13] So the only other option
would be to set a time limit
[7:35:19] on the holding provisions,
[7:35:20] but I don't think Mr. Vacca
would be overly agreeable
[7:35:23] to that either.
[7:35:25] - Okay. Thank you.
[7:35:25] Through the mayor, I was
going to ask Mr. Vacca
[7:35:27] if you were agreeable to that.
[7:35:28] - You know what, Councillor Lococo,
[7:35:31] I'm willing to negotiate that on the spot
[7:35:33] given that the scale of
the development is larger
[7:35:37] than any commercial
development you've approved.
[7:35:40] And I was here to get two 60-storey towers
[7:35:43] approved a couple years ago in Fallsview.
[7:35:47] We'd be willing to accept.
[7:35:49] Forget about the H and
when the clock starts.
[7:35:52] Once the amending by-law's approved,
[7:35:54] we'd be willing to accept what you give
[7:35:56] the commercial developers.
[7:35:57] Four years plus an extension of two years,
[7:36:01] given the scale of the project.
[7:36:03] - Okay, thank you.
[7:36:04] Based on what you just said
about commercial developers,
[7:36:06] I guess through the mayor,
maybe to Ms. Dolch again,
[7:36:09] I know it's been stated that we have
[7:36:11] a lot of residential property
[7:36:12] and this was commercially zoned.
[7:36:15] Why are we changing commercially
zoned to residential
[7:36:18] at this stage if we have enough land?
[7:36:22] - [Jim] Ms. Dolch?
[7:36:23] - Thank you, Your Worship.
[7:36:24] Through you to the Councillor.
[7:36:25] So obviously this is a request
that they have put forward.
[7:36:29] We assess it based on the
merits of the application.
[7:36:32] We do have a lot of
residentially designated land.
[7:36:35] This is a unique site.
[7:36:37] Obviously, we did have concerns
[7:36:39] with some of the industry surrounding it.
[7:36:42] But there is a larger commercial
shopping mall to the north,
[7:36:46] obviously with a number of
providers in that facility.
[7:36:51] So it may be over.
[7:36:54] There may be too much
commercial in this area,
[7:36:56] and that's why this site
has sat for some time.
[7:36:58] So we understand why
they have proposed it.
[7:37:01] They are proposing additional commercial,
[7:37:03] so they're just making a mixed use.
[7:37:06] So we do support that mixed use.
[7:37:09] Our concern was more the
concern with the industry
[7:37:12] and the compatibility of it,
[7:37:14] whether or not commercial
was more appropriate.
[7:37:17] But we've been working through that
[7:37:19] and have that holding provision
[7:37:20] to make sure we're satisfied in the end.
[7:37:22] - Okay, thank you.
[7:37:23] I want to talk about
taxes, through the mayor,
[7:37:25] Councillor Nieuwesteeg
was talking about taxes
[7:37:27] about where we are now,
81,000 to get the 5.5 million
[7:37:30] and that would be less taxes.
[7:37:33] I just want to clarify and
verify if we get 5.5 million,
[7:37:38] it's not going to be reducing
our taxes the way we are now.
[7:37:40] We're going to spend that
5.5 million on other things.
[7:37:44] It's not reducing the taxes
that we currently have.
[7:37:46] Can somebody, because I know what I-
[7:37:49] - That's up to this council what we do.
[7:37:51] So maybe we'll go to Ms. Clark.
[7:37:53] Or maybe we'll go to our CAO.
[7:37:55] Another $5 million of property taxes.
[7:38:00] - Yeah, and I caution everyone
[7:38:01] with the $5 million of the property taxes.
[7:38:03] We don't verify if it's
based upon market value,
[7:38:05] that's not how MPAC assess it.
[7:38:08] You know, in comparison,
the Hilton is 1.3 million.
[7:38:13] - [Tiffany] The Hilton pays
property tax of 5.5 million.
[7:38:15] I also want to clarify that
I believe Mr. Vacca misspoke.
[7:38:18] That is not the city
portion, that is total taxes.
[7:38:22] - [Rocky] I think if you do the math,
[7:38:23] the assessment's going to be.
[7:38:25] - [Tiffany] We did do the math.
[7:38:27] - So just be careful with the 5.5 on it,
[7:38:28] but whatever is the incremental amount,
[7:38:30] it would be a significant
incremental amount.
[7:38:33] Each year in the budget
process, we always add on growth
[7:38:36] and we disclose to council
[7:38:37] what the growth is on the budget increase.
[7:38:41] We have certain policies in
there where we take the growth
[7:38:45] and offset it to OLG, the
subsidy on the OLG revenue
[7:38:49] and/or as the mayor says,
council can direct that
[7:38:53] to either offset taxes
[7:38:55] or to invest into capital or reserves.
[7:38:59] So this is just like any other
development that comes online
[7:39:03] to the city.
[7:39:06] That feeds into the revenue
and council can decide
[7:39:08] how to spend that budget.
[7:39:11] Just be careful with the 5.5
million is all I would say.
[7:39:14] - Thank you. Completely understand.
[7:39:15] It's just when I heard less taxes,
[7:39:17] residents are going to think,
oh, if we approve this,
[7:39:19] they're going to have less taxes to pay.
[7:39:21] So I just wanted to be careful there.
[7:39:23] The money does go for other
things. I do get that.
[7:39:26] Those are all my
questions for now. Thanks.
[7:39:27] - Thank you. Councillor
Pietrangelo, then Baldinelli.
[7:39:32] - Yeah, thanks, Your Worship.
[7:39:34] I know Councillor Lococo just talked about
[7:39:35] the sunset clause.
[7:39:36] I was going to make some
comments on that as well.
[7:39:39] I heard Ms. Dolch speak.
[7:39:41] I mean, I'm in support of the project.
[7:39:43] I wouldn't want to do anything
to handcuff the developer
[7:39:47] from, you know, missing the timeframe.
[7:39:49] I think Mr. Vacca is correct
when he says that, you know,
[7:39:52] we give larger commercial
buildings a longer time span.
[7:39:57] So I would definitely be
in favor of extending that
[7:40:00] or even starting the clock
once the H symbol comes off.
[7:40:05] I'm amenable to any of those
[7:40:06] in regards to the sunset clause.
[7:40:08] In regards to the taxes,
Your Worship, I know,
[7:40:11] you know, there's been
some talk back and forth
[7:40:13] about how the city's going to benefit.
[7:40:16] I kind of think at it at
a different angle really.
[7:40:19] And to me, it's all about
infrastructure renewal.
[7:40:22] I mean, if we're going
to put 1,782 units here
[7:40:26] or families here,
[7:40:27] you know, Niagara Falls is predominantly
[7:40:29] single family homes.
[7:40:30] To get 1,800 homes, you're talking about
[7:40:33] multiple subdivisions.
[7:40:34] And when I equate that
in my head right away,
[7:40:37] to me, that's like kilometers
and kilometers of roads
[7:40:40] and sidewalks and street
lights and water pipes
[7:40:43] and sewer pipes.
[7:40:43] And if you look at this development here,
[7:40:45] you don't even have like one
kilometer in total of road
[7:40:49] or one kilometer in total of sidewalks.
[7:40:51] So it's infrastructure renewal as well.
[7:40:54] And in the future, that's
really where we benefit
[7:40:56] because we don't have
to spend as much money
[7:40:58] of people's taxes.
[7:41:00] Don't end up going towards
infrastructure renewal.
[7:41:02] So Your Worship, I'm in
full support of the project.
[7:41:06] I have no other comments.
[7:41:07] I'll definitely vote in favor of it
[7:41:08] when you close the meeting.
[7:41:10] - Thank you. Councillor Baldinelli.
[7:41:12] - Thank you, through your mayor,
[7:41:13] thank you very much for the
presentation, it's very good.
[7:41:16] I'm also in support of the clock starting
[7:41:20] as well after the H has been removed.
[7:41:23] I really look at, and it's
my old stomping grounds
[7:41:26] for soccer, Acres.
[7:41:27] That's where I started playing soccer
[7:41:29] and I still remember that grounds.
[7:41:30] And I've always wondered
why it never really took off
[7:41:33] and anything was built there.
[7:41:35] But anyways mitigation
efforts for even when
[7:41:39] the Chef Boyardee property was built.
[7:41:42] We had a big problem with rats spreading.
[7:41:46] So once you start, just spreads.
[7:41:48] Will you be performing any
kind of mitigation efforts
[7:41:51] to remove that problem before you begin?
[7:41:54] So you have all these years
before you remove the H
[7:41:58] to possibly get rid of it
[7:41:59] because all you're going to
do is push it everywhere else.
[7:42:03] And I think the citizens around the area
[7:42:05] that it's being built
would be really happy
[7:42:07] if you can get rid of that
problem first and then build.
[7:42:11] - Okay, I'm going to ask
the Project Pied Piper,
[7:42:14] Mike Allen to address that.
[7:42:16] (audience laughs)
[7:42:19] - Through Your Worship.
[7:42:20] As I said earlier,
[7:42:21] as we get into the site plan agreement,
[7:42:24] we need to have certain plans
and schedules put in place.
[7:42:28] So the rat mitigation control plan
[7:42:31] is one that's going to
have to be established
[7:42:33] before we even commence.
[7:42:35] Same as post and pre-construction surveys
[7:42:37] of the surrounding areas.
[7:42:39] So to answer your question,
yes, it'll be dealt with.
[7:42:41] - Thank you, I'm looking
forward to the project
[7:42:44] and I hope everybody else is
around the city, thank you.
[7:42:47] - Thank you, Councillor.
[7:42:48] Any other questions,
oh, Councillor Kerrio.
[7:42:51] - Thank you, Your Worship.
[7:42:52] I'd just like to congratulate the team.
[7:42:54] This is a fantastic proposal.
[7:42:57] You know, for those of us that were around
[7:42:58] when Acres was here and when Acres closed,
[7:43:02] it made a lot of us sad.
[7:43:03] It was a great industry
to have. It was quiet.
[7:43:08] Provided jobs. But this
ticks all the boxes.
[7:43:11] I can't believe we're not
just over the top excited
[7:43:14] about this.
[7:43:15] Housing, we need housing.
[7:43:16] They're bringing the
biggest housing project
[7:43:18] that the city's ever seen.
[7:43:20] Jobs, we need jobs. They're
bringing jobs. Great jobs.
[7:43:23] Construction jobs, jobs
that's going to work
[7:43:25] on the project after it's completed.
[7:43:27] We need tax revenue.
[7:43:28] Now I'm not sure how
much revenue this council
[7:43:31] would ever have to have
where it could reduce taxes,
[7:43:34] but at least this is a start.
[7:43:36] And the, you know, the development charges
[7:43:40] that we're going to get in,
[7:43:41] it's up to this council to
decide if we're going to,
[7:43:43] you know, save some
money and not spend it.
[7:43:46] They're bringing in the most
money that I could imagine
[7:43:49] that they could bring in on this site.
[7:43:50] The green space. If I was
a neighbor, I'd be ecstatic
[7:43:55] to live across the street from this.
[7:43:56] Take a piece of land that's weeds
[7:44:00] and some of the neighbors said has rats,
[7:44:02] and they're going to look
outside and see this green space,
[7:44:04] these beautiful buildings.
[7:44:06] They're going to address the problems,
[7:44:07] the concerns that the neighbors have.
[7:44:09] This is just an exciting proposal.
[7:44:11] I'm very proud to know the
owners and the developers.
[7:44:16] And I feel bad that
they've had to go through
[7:44:19] what they've had to go through
[7:44:21] to get this thing off the ground.
[7:44:22] I can't imagine that the winery
gave them any grief at all.
[7:44:26] You know, I'd love to
have 2,000 or 2,500 people
[7:44:31] that probably most of them
drink wine put in my backyard.
[7:44:35] I can't imagine.
[7:44:36] Anyway, they came to an
agreement, which is great.
[7:44:39] I think this is great for everyone.
[7:44:40] Absolutely fantastic for the city.
[7:44:42] You know, we're going to
be the envy of many cities
[7:44:45] that would love to have this project.
[7:44:47] I'm certainly proud to get
this project in our community.
[7:44:49] And congratulations to everyone concerned,
[7:44:51] including our staff that's
helped put it together.
[7:44:54] - Thank you, Councillor Kerrio.
[7:44:55] And I'll just close off with
a couple other comments.
[7:44:58] And I do want to compliment
Arterra. They came to the table.
[7:45:02] They've been there 150 years.
They've got hundreds of jobs.
[7:45:05] And the president of the company himself
[7:45:08] virtually attended the
meeting and worked through
[7:45:11] all of the things they had concerns with
[7:45:12] and credit to the group, the Butera Group.
[7:45:16] They dealt with every
one of their concerns
[7:45:18] to their satisfaction.
[7:45:19] So that was win-win. And as
you say, good opportunity.
[7:45:23] There'll be all these people living there
[7:45:24] that'll probably shop at their store
[7:45:26] and also work potentially at Arterra.
[7:45:28] So it was a nice meeting of the minds
[7:45:31] and coming up with what was
best and also to our staff.
[7:45:34] You know, they had a juggle.
[7:45:35] This was a big project, as you say,
[7:45:37] probably the biggest in
the history of the region
[7:45:40] to have something like this come together
[7:45:43] and to be accepted the way that it was.
[7:45:44] And we're grateful that
everybody came together.
[7:45:46] So it wasn't easy, but they
definitely came together.
[7:45:49] We're grateful. We need
houses. We need jobs.
[7:45:51] We need revenue. It's
exactly the kind of thing
[7:45:53] that we need in a hometown boy
[7:45:56] that's decided to do this here.
[7:45:59] I mean, we're lucky.
[7:45:59] You know, people are
trying to get Mr. Butera
[7:46:01] to build these all across
Canada and he's here.
[7:46:04] So it's a nice way to
have a signature building.
[7:46:07] So with these public
comments and the input
[7:46:10] and the questions and everything else,
[7:46:12] the official, the public meeting
[7:46:14] with respect to the proposed official plan
[7:46:15] and zoning by-law
amendment is now concluded.
[7:46:19] We go to Councillor Kerrio
and I'm going to go.
[7:46:22] Okay, and did you want
to make the amendment
[7:46:24] on the sunset clause with the
removal of the H programs?
[7:46:29] Yes?
[7:46:30] (council member speaking faintly)
[7:46:31] Until after the H is lifted.
[7:46:32] And I'm going to go to
Councillor Pietrangelo
[7:46:35] for the second on that.
[7:46:37] And if there's no further
discussion to that,
[7:46:39] we'll call the vote.
[7:46:40] All those in favor. Okay. Opposed?
[7:46:43] Okay, with one opposed.
[7:46:45] Congratulations. We look
forward to your development.
[7:46:47] Thank you very much.
[7:46:48] - [Rocky] Thank you very much.
- Thank you.
[7:46:51] (audience chattering)
[7:47:05] - [Council Member] Now do we
get a break? Direct time out.
[7:47:07] - Yeah, we'll just take a couple minutes.
[7:47:08] Just don't leave though. Don't leave.
[7:47:11] Oh yeah, go, go, go. Go pee.
[7:47:14] Okay. We'll just take
five minute recess, folks.
[7:47:17] Five minutes, and we'll come right back.
[8:02:54] - All right, thank you all.
We just had a short recess.
[8:02:57] (Jim speaking faintly)
[8:02:58] All right all, we just
are going to start again
[8:03:00] after a short recess.
[8:03:01] We're going to move to item 8.2
[8:03:04] for anyone following along on the agenda.
[8:03:06] So I'll now go to our clerk
[8:03:07] and ask him to introduce the item.
[8:03:13] - A public meeting is now being convened
[8:03:15] to consider a draft plan of subdivision
[8:03:17] and to consider a proposed amendment
[8:03:18] to the city's zoning by-law
to permit the development
[8:03:21] of between 244 and 296 dwelling units
[8:03:25] on the vacant parcel of
land south of McLeod Road,
[8:03:28] fronting onto both Kalar
Road and Pin Oak Drive.
[8:03:31] Notice was given by first class mail
[8:03:33] in accordance with the
Planning Act on July 22nd, 2026
[8:03:37] and by posting a sign on
the property in question.
[8:03:40] Anyone who wants notice the
passing of the draft plan
[8:03:42] of subdivision and the
zoning by-law amendment
[8:03:44] or preserve their opportunity to appeal
[8:03:46] to the Ontario Land Tribunal
[8:03:48] with regards to the
zoning by-law amendment,
[8:03:50] shall give notice to the city clerk
[8:03:52] immediately after today's public meeting
[8:03:54] or by signing the sign-in sheets
[8:03:55] located just outside council chamber.
[8:03:58] - Thank you Mr. Clerk.
[8:03:59] And just before we do proceed
just as another reminder,
[8:04:03] we've announced it several times tonight.
[8:04:05] Anyone here for the Grassy
Brook secondary plan
[8:04:08] that has been deferred until November.
[8:04:11] We had a technical issue and council voted
[8:04:14] much earlier in the meeting
to defer it to November.
[8:04:17] So if anyone's here for that,
[8:04:20] please receive that as your notice.
[8:04:22] So I will now go to Mackenzie
Ceci, senior planner,
[8:04:26] current development, to
provide and explain the purpose
[8:04:30] and reason for the proposed
draft plan and by-law amendment.
[8:04:37] - Thank you.
[8:04:38] Good afternoon, Mayor, council,
staff and area residents.
[8:04:41] Thank you for joining the public meeting
[8:04:42] for the zoning by-law
amendment and draft plan
[8:04:44] and subdivision applications
for the vacant land
[8:04:46] situated between Kalar
Road and Pin Oak Drive.
[8:04:54] The subject lands which
are currently vacant
[8:04:56] are approximately 13.51 hectares in size
[8:04:59] and are located on the
south of McLeod Road
[8:05:01] having frontage on both
Kalar Road and Pin Oak Drive.
[8:05:04] Surrounding land uses include to the north
[8:05:06] Niagara Peninsula Energy Inc.
[8:05:08] Coach Canada, commercial uses,
[8:05:10] existing and proposed residential uses
[8:05:14] provincially significant wetlands,
[8:05:16] and vacant lands zoned for residential
[8:05:18] and light industrial uses.
[8:05:19] To the south are provincially
significant wetlands,
[8:05:22] vacant land zoned light industrial,
[8:05:26] and lands approved for the development
[8:05:28] of 84 back to back townhouse dwellings
[8:05:30] and 29 block townhouse dwellings.
[8:05:32] To the east is Pin Oak Drive, Costco,
[8:05:35] and commercial uses in the
Niagara Square Retail District.
[8:05:38] And to the west is Kalar Road,
[8:05:40] residential uses including
detached dwellings
[8:05:42] and two four-storey apartment dwellings
[8:05:44] and vacant institutional
lands at 7425 Kalar Road,
[8:05:47] which are intended for
a new elementary school
[8:05:51] by Niagara Catholic District School Board.
[8:05:55] An environmental impact study and addendum
[8:05:57] were submitted with the applications
[8:05:58] and identified the presence
of significant woodlands,
[8:06:00] significant wetlands,
significant wildlife habitat
[8:06:03] and fish habitat on the subject lands.
[8:06:06] A realignment of the
tributary of Warren Creek
[8:06:09] is proposed to facilitate the development.
[8:06:11] The environmental impact study conclude
[8:06:13] that no negative impacts are anticipated
[8:06:15] once the wetland compensation is complete.
[8:06:17] And it is further noted
that the main channel
[8:06:19] of Warren Creek on the
west side of Kalar Road
[8:06:21] has been realigned in
the past to facilitate
[8:06:24] the phases of Warren Woods subdivision.
[8:06:26] The proposed channel corridor realignment
[8:06:28] is consistent with this
established approach.
[8:06:31] And you'll notice that the watercourse
[8:06:34] that I am mentioning is located
[8:06:36] across the northwest corner of the site.
[8:06:43] The subject lands are designated
residential medium density
[8:06:46] and environmental protection area
[8:06:47] in accordance with the
Garner South secondary plan.
[8:06:50] The residential medium density designation
[8:06:52] is reserved for development
of a mix of housing types
[8:06:55] and a minimum density
of 50 units per hectare
[8:06:58] and a maximum density
of 75 units per hectare
[8:07:01] with building heights not
exceeding four storeys.
[8:07:04] The lands are impacted by Warren Creek
[8:07:05] and its 100 year
floodplain as well as areas
[8:07:08] of provincially significant wetlands
[8:07:10] associated with Warren
Creek wetland complex
[8:07:13] and their 30 meter buffers.
[8:07:14] An official plan
amendment is not requested
[8:07:17] or required to facilitate
the proposed development
[8:07:20] provided that the minimum density target
[8:07:21] of 50 units per hectare is achieved.
[8:07:26] The subject lands are zoned
light industrial zone currently
[8:07:28] and a zoning by-law amendment
application is proposed
[8:07:31] to rezone the subject lands
[8:07:32] to a site specific residential mix zone,
[8:07:34] which is shown in yellow,
[8:07:35] which would be for on-street
townhouse dwellings.
[8:07:39] Site specific residential low density,
[8:07:41] which would be for block
townhouse dwellings
[8:07:43] and is shown in orange on the slide.
[8:07:45] Site specific residential
apartment 5C density zone,
[8:07:48] which is shown in red, which
would likely be in the form
[8:07:51] of apartment dwellings.
[8:07:52] Site specific open space zone,
[8:07:54] which is shown as the bright green.
[8:07:57] And in the dark green
[8:07:58] is the environmental
protection area zones.
[8:08:02] The draft plan of subdivision.
[8:08:04] Application proposes to
subdivide the subject lands
[8:08:07] into 38 blocks.
[8:08:08] So 25 blocks for 139
on-street townhouse dwellings,
[8:08:12] two blocks for medium
density residential units,
[8:08:15] two blocks to accommodate
a watercourse realignment
[8:08:17] as I mentioned.
[8:08:18] So that's blocks 31 and 32
along the west lot line.
[8:08:24] One block to accommodate a
stormwater management pond.
[8:08:27] Five blocks for environmental
protection purposes.
[8:08:29] So that's for the wetlands
and their buffers.
[8:08:33] Three blocks for open space
purposes and two public streets.
[8:08:38] An open house was held on July 7th, 2026.
[8:08:41] No members of the public
were in attendance.
[8:08:44] Written comments were submitted
by one member of the public
[8:08:46] concerning traffic
conflicts on McLeod Road
[8:08:48] at the Petro Canada driveway.
[8:08:50] Transportation services
staff have been in contact
[8:08:53] with the resident and
will review to determine
[8:08:55] if additional measures or
modifications to the median
[8:08:57] are warranted at a future date.
[8:08:59] However, it's noted that
this is an existing issue
[8:09:02] and is outside of the scope of
the development application.
[8:09:05] Niagara Peninsula Energy
Inc. also submitted
[8:09:08] written comments on August 5th,
[8:09:09] and these comments will be
addressed through conditions
[8:09:12] of draft plan approval
requiring warning clauses
[8:09:14] with respect to lighting and noise.
[8:09:16] It is also noted that a class
four area noise classification
[8:09:19] is recommended to address
sound level exceedances
[8:09:22] resulting from Niagara Peninsula
Energy Inc. and Costco.
[8:09:25] By recognizing the continued operation
[8:09:27] of existing noise generating facilities,
[8:09:30] the class four area classification
helps reduce potential
[8:09:32] operational constraints
on these facilities
[8:09:35] while supporting compatible redevelopment
[8:09:37] and intensification objectives.
[8:09:39] This approach is consistent
[8:09:40] with other recent development
approvals in the area,
[8:09:43] specifically 7302 Kalar
Road and 7449 Montrose Road.
[8:09:52] Subject to the fulfillment
of the conditions contained
[8:09:54] in Schedule A and the
modifications detailed
[8:09:56] in the staff report,
[8:09:57] the following zoning by-law
amendment and draft plan
[8:09:59] and subdivision
applications are recommended
[8:10:01] for the reasons listed below.
[8:10:04] So the proposed development
satisfies matters
[8:10:05] of provincial interest as outlined
[8:10:07] in Section 2 of the Planning Act.
[8:10:08] The proposed development
will conform to provincial,
[8:10:10] regional and city policies.
[8:10:12] The proposed development is
anticipated to be compatible
[8:10:14] with surrounding land uses
subject to the classification
[8:10:17] of the subject lands as
a class four noise area.
[8:10:20] And the implementation of the recommended
[8:10:21] noise control measures
and warning clauses.
[8:10:24] The proposed development will exceed
[8:10:25] the minimum density target
of 50 residents and jobs
[8:10:28] per hectare for the
designated greenfield area.
[8:10:31] No adverse effects on the
natural heritage features
[8:10:34] and their associated
functions are expected
[8:10:36] as a result of the proposed development.
[8:10:38] And in some cases, positive
outcomes are predicted.
[8:10:41] The proposed development
will maintain the hydrology
[8:10:44] of wetlands at a quantity and quality
[8:10:45] that will ensure the long-term
preservation of the wetland.
[8:10:48] And again there are conditions
of draft plan approval
[8:10:51] to address that.
[8:10:52] The existing transportation infrastructure
[8:10:54] and municipal services can accommodate
[8:10:55] the proposed development.
[8:10:57] The proposed site specific
zoning amendments are appropriate
[8:11:00] for the area and will facilitate
an efficient use of land
[8:11:03] in a compact built form.
[8:11:04] And the proposed development
will address the concerns
[8:11:06] that were raised by Niagara
Peninsula Energy Inc.
[8:11:10] In summary, staff recommend
that council approve
[8:11:12] the zoning by-law amendment
[8:11:13] subject to the regulations
and modifications
[8:11:15] detailed in the staff report.
[8:11:17] It's recommended that council approve
[8:11:18] the draft plan of subdivision
subject to the conditions
[8:11:21] contained in Schedule A of the report.
[8:11:23] That council grant draft
plan subdivision approval
[8:11:26] for three years.
[8:11:27] That council authorize
the mayor or designate
[8:11:29] to sign the draft plan of subdivision
[8:11:30] and execute the subdivision agreement.
[8:11:33] That council approve the
classification of the subject lands
[8:11:35] as a class four noise area
[8:11:37] pursuant to the Ministry
of the Environment,
[8:11:39] noise guidelines NPC-300.
[8:11:43] And that council delegate
authority to the general manager
[8:11:46] of planning, building and
development to approve
[8:11:48] the implementing by-laws at
a future delegated meeting.
[8:11:50] Thank you.
[8:11:51] - Okay. Thank you very much.
Any questions for Ms. Ceci?
[8:11:54] We've got Councillor Lococo.
[8:11:56] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[8:11:57] If we could go to page
39 and 40 of the report.
[8:12:05] I had a question regarding
appendix three, the map.
[8:12:08] I noticed on there that
Warren Creek is not on there.
[8:12:13] A resident brought that to my attention
[8:12:15] and stated that it should be on there.
[8:12:18] - [Jim] Okay.
[8:12:19] - So so on page 39 and 40, it's not there.
[8:12:22] And then when you get to page 40,
[8:12:26] when changing Warren
Creek from where it was
[8:12:29] to where you want to move
it, is that the squiggly line
[8:12:32] that goes all the way
around and then down?
[8:12:35] Is that the new Warren Creek?
[8:12:37] - That's correct.
[8:12:38] So on page 40, block 32 and 31,
[8:12:43] so 31's on the south side of street A.
[8:12:45] 32 is on the north side.
[8:12:47] Yeah, that would be the two
blocks accommodating the creek.
[8:12:50] And the zoning schedule, that
L-shaped kind of in the top
[8:12:56] and the northwest corner
would be representative
[8:12:59] of the 30 meter wide channel
[8:13:01] that would accommodate the
creek and its floodplain.
[8:13:04] Thank you.
[8:13:05] - I've never seen a creek go like that.
[8:13:08] I don't understand that.
[8:13:09] I'm not a geologist or I
don't get that, but anyway.
[8:13:14] Am I understanding this
class four noise area?
[8:13:17] We've been talking about
industrial, a lot of noise.
[8:13:19] So this is not a class four building.
[8:13:22] This is a class four
area. And if we designate.
[8:13:25] Right now, they wouldn't
be able to build this
[8:13:28] because there not a level of noise.
[8:13:31] But if we designate a
class four noise area,
[8:13:35] then the development can happen,
[8:13:36] through the mayor to Ms.
Ceci. Is that correct?
[8:13:38] - Through to the Councillor.
[8:13:39] So they could proceed with the development
[8:13:42] if they were to explore
other mitigation measures.
[8:13:45] So one of them was a
4.4 meter high barrier
[8:13:49] along the rear yards of any of the units
[8:13:51] that would be backing onto
Niagara Peninsula Energy Inc.
[8:13:54] But thinking from a
livability perspective,
[8:13:58] that would be quite you
know, onerous for a landowner
[8:14:01] to have that in their backyard.
[8:14:03] And also recognizing that
this provides some flexibility
[8:14:06] to Niagara Peninsula Energy Inc.
[8:14:08] Should their operations expand.
[8:14:10] In terms of Costco,
because that's another one
[8:14:12] of the stationary sources
that are impacting the site.
[8:14:15] They could design that
those couple of end units
[8:14:18] with appropriate noise barriers
[8:14:19] for their outdoor living areas
[8:14:21] and use upgraded building
components and treatments
[8:14:24] to mitigate the noise.
[8:14:26] But again, the class four designation
[8:14:28] allows for that flexibility for the noise.
[8:14:31] So there's a few areas
where it would help address
[8:14:34] Costco and then particularly the noise
[8:14:37] that's being generated by
Niagara Peninsula Energy.
[8:14:39] - Okay. Thank you.
[8:14:40] I'm just concerned and I've
had a couple of comments
[8:14:42] that we're now naming it a new noise area
[8:14:46] because there's going to be
noise and now that's acceptable.
[8:14:50] That's where I'm going, from industry.
[8:14:54] - Through you to the Councillor.
[8:14:55] So NPC-300 does allow for
the noise classifications
[8:15:01] to be elevated to the class
four area if it's demonstrated
[8:15:05] that it's appropriate.
[8:15:06] And in this case, staff are of the opinion
[8:15:08] that it is given the scale and
nature of those facilities.
[8:15:12] And also recognizing that
in one of the comments
[8:15:14] we heard from Niagara
Peninsula Energy Inc.
[8:15:16] Was that they do have
emergency operations at times.
[8:15:19] And those aren't captured under NPC-300,
[8:15:22] but this again you know,
brings that to the attention
[8:15:25] of residents in terms of those
elevated noise exceedances
[8:15:29] due to their operations.
[8:15:30] So we feel that there's
the provincial guidance
[8:15:34] that allows for it.
[8:15:35] Like I mentioned, there are
other properties in the area
[8:15:37] where this has been the route,
[8:15:39] specifically 7302 Kalar Road,
which is just directly north
[8:15:42] of Niagara Peninsula Energy Inc.
[8:15:44] I believe that was approved
by council last year
[8:15:47] as a class four noise area.
[8:15:49] So this is mirroring that approach.
[8:15:51] And again, then is also addressing
[8:15:54] some of the stationary noise
sources from Costco as well.
[8:15:56] - Okay, regarding the parkland dedication,
[8:16:00] there's all of those blocks,
[8:16:02] but then municipal work says
[8:16:04] that there will be
additional operational needs.
[8:16:07] So are we taking the park or
are we not taking the park?
[8:16:10] - Through you to the Councillor.
[8:16:11] So the operational needs was with respect
[8:16:13] to taking the EPA lands, the
environmental protection areas.
[8:16:18] We are not taking physical
parkland through this.
[8:16:22] There was a small parquette
on the south side of street A
[8:16:25] towards Pin Oak that was
proposed at one point.
[8:16:28] And that's through the
description described
[8:16:30] that we want just essentially
a block connection
[8:16:33] to the EPA lands there.
[8:16:36] But that the rest of that be
reserved for residential use,
[8:16:40] just because functionally
that small parquette
[8:16:42] wouldn't serve you know, a purpose
[8:16:48] from a parkland standpoint.
[8:16:49] And there are a lot of parks in this area
[8:16:51] as was mentioned in the report.
[8:16:53] So that they feel that parkland dedication
[8:16:55] isn't required here.
[8:16:58] And so we're re-lotting
some of the subdivision
[8:17:00] in that respect.
[8:17:02] - Okay, regarding the
hydrological contribution
[8:17:07] to the southern wetlands,
what's going to happen
[8:17:09] to the wetland if it's
minimizing the split drainage?
[8:17:16] Are we sure that this is going to work?
[8:17:19] - Through you to the Councillor.
[8:17:20] So there is additional study work
[8:17:22] that the Conservation
Authority has acknowledged
[8:17:25] that needs to be completed.
[8:17:26] And that's in their conditions
of draft plan approval,
[8:17:28] that the applicant's going
to do this updated study work
[8:17:32] to make sure that the
hydrology is maintained
[8:17:36] and that those wetlands
are being fed appropriately
[8:17:38] from those hydrologic sources.
[8:17:40] So that's something that's
still being assessed
[8:17:43] and we're accepting that in the conditions
[8:17:45] of draft plan approval.
[8:17:47] - Okay. Thank you.
[8:17:48] I have a ton of environmental questions
[8:17:50] and I'm already over five minutes,
[8:17:51] so I'm going to have to sit down.
[8:17:53] - Okay, sometimes good
to send them in advance
[8:17:55] and then you get your
answers ahead of time.
[8:17:58] - We had a 2,500 page agenda
[8:18:01] and I was reading up
until late last night.
[8:18:03] So it's really hard to get in contact
[8:18:05] with staff over the weekend.
[8:18:06] - I always suggest if you do that,
[8:18:08] write them out, put them in an email.
[8:18:09] You have a better chance
of getting response.
[8:18:12] - Well, usually I do, Mr. Mayor.
[8:18:14] Usually I do and staff can attest to that,
[8:18:16] but there was just so
much and some of the stuff
[8:18:18] didn't get put on till Friday
night after five o'clock.
[8:18:21] Some things didn't get put
on until today or yesterday.
[8:18:23] It's really hard as a councillor
to stay on top of this.
[8:18:26] - I know. It is. Any other
questions of other Councillors?
[8:18:31] Yes, Councillor Nieuwesteeg.
[8:18:33] - I have one.
[8:18:34] However, my computer's not working,
[8:18:36] so I'm going back on notes.
[8:18:38] In it, it had made a comment
that the region and the city
[8:18:40] would be working together
for servicing structure
[8:18:44] in place to accommodate the
development in the interim
[8:18:46] before the new Niagara South
wastewater plant is in service.
[8:18:50] What guarantee do we have
that this will be in place?
[8:18:55] - Through you to the Councillor.
[8:18:56] So typical conditions from the region
[8:18:59] are about servicing allocation.
[8:19:00] So they want to make sure
they're not making a commitment
[8:19:02] for servicing room until a draft plan,
[8:19:05] a subdivision is actually registered.
[8:19:07] So those are the conditions
that you're seeing
[8:19:09] in terms of the timing and
the infrastructure upgrades
[8:19:14] that are eventually going to be proposed.
[8:19:16] - So we don't have to worry
about this as. Okay. Thank you.
[8:19:20] - Okay, if there's no other questions,
[8:19:23] members of the public
are advised that failure
[8:19:25] to make an oral or written
submission at this public meeting
[8:19:29] will result in the Ontario Land Tribunal
[8:19:32] dismissing any referrals that it receives.
[8:19:33] Failure to make a
notification of the city clerk
[8:19:37] to preserve their opportunity to an appeal
[8:19:38] will result in staff rejecting an appeal
[8:19:40] as for section 3419 of the Planning Act.
[8:19:44] Council will now hear from
anyone other than the applicant
[8:19:46] who wishes to speak to the proposed plan
[8:19:49] and by-law amendment.
[8:19:51] Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone
pre-registered for this?
[8:19:53] We do not. Okay. So now
we go to the gallery.
[8:19:55] So if you'd like to step forward,
[8:19:57] anyone that would like
to speak to this matter,
[8:19:59] you can come forward.
[8:20:00] And is there anyone else that
wants to speak to this matter?
[8:20:05] Okay. So you've got up to five minutes.
[8:20:07] And if you can just state
your name and your address,
[8:20:09] and then you can ask your questions.
[8:20:10] - My name's Brad Pine,
4900 St. Clair Avenue.
[8:20:15] This might be extraordinary,
[8:20:17] but may I proxy my five minutes
[8:20:20] as I have environmental concerns?
[8:20:22] May I proxy my five
minutes to Mrs. Lococo?
[8:20:26] - [Jim] I go to our clerk for a ruling.
[8:20:29] - I have environmental
concerns, so I am requesting it.
[8:20:33] - That does not exist within the city's
[8:20:36] or within council's procedural by-law.
[8:20:38] - So we can do it?
- So it's the will of council.
[8:20:41] - Okay.
[8:20:42] - Just doesn't currently exist
[8:20:43] as part of our procedural by-laws.
[8:20:45] - Mrs. Lococo could you pass me
[8:20:46] your environmental things to, no?
[8:20:50] (Lori speaking faintly)
[8:20:51] Okay.
[8:20:52] - Appreciate the effort on the gesture.
[8:20:54] - May the luck of the Irish be with you.
[8:20:56] - Thank you. And with you as well.
[8:20:58] - [Brad] Thank you.
[8:21:00] - Slantia.
[8:21:01] Is there anyone else who
wishes to address council
[8:21:03] on this matter?
[8:21:05] Okay, seeing none, council will
now hear from the applicant
[8:21:08] or his or her representative.
[8:21:16] - Mr. Mayor, members of
council, staff, public,
[8:21:19] my name is Peter Diulio.
[8:21:21] I'm a registered professional planner
[8:21:23] with Metropolitan Consulting, Inc.
[8:21:25] Representing Alinea Land Corporation.
[8:21:27] I'm just here to say we
concur with staff's report
[8:21:29] and recommendations and
wish to move forward
[8:21:32] with this project.
[8:21:34] - Any questions for Mr. Diulio?
[8:21:37] - Diulio, yes.
[8:21:38] - Diulio, of council?
[8:21:40] Did you have any questions,
Councillor Lococo? Yes?
[8:21:44] You can backdoor the questions.
[8:21:46] - I was thinking of that one.
[8:21:49] Staff said that it can't be
supported some of the requests
[8:21:54] that you have because of
elimination in the minimum
[8:21:56] landscape open space area when
coupled with the elimination
[8:21:59] of the maximum lot coverage.
[8:22:01] Where do we stand on the proposal then
[8:22:03] if they can't support that?
[8:22:05] - [Jim] Are you asking them?
- Yes.
[8:22:07] - Sorry. Through you, Mr. Mayor.
[8:22:09] We're supporting all of
staff's recommendations.
[8:22:12] So when the draft by-law comes forward,
[8:22:14] that request of ours will not be there
[8:22:16] and it'll just go with the
regular by-law provision.
[8:22:19] - Okay, it also talked about
[8:22:21] that there's a zero meter
buffer in one location
[8:22:24] and the average minimum buffer
is 10 meters throughout.
[8:22:27] If the EPA blocks is not large enough
[8:22:31] to accommodate the 100 year floodplain,
[8:22:33] which we keep on hearing about rain,
[8:22:35] or the wetland buffers,
[8:22:37] the draft sub plan subdivision
will need to be redlined.
[8:22:40] Can that please be explained
to me about redlining
[8:22:42] and what that means in
the development process?
[8:22:47] - Well, I don't know who
would answer that question.
[8:22:49] Redlining, I don't know if
that Ms. Ceci or Ms. Dolch,
[8:22:52] or Mr. Diulio.
[8:22:56] - Through you to the Councillor.
[8:22:57] So as they're working to
clear their conditions
[8:23:00] of draft plan approval, which
would include the additional
[8:23:02] study work to demonstrate the
appropriateness of the buffers
[8:23:05] if it's identified that that
buffer isn't appropriate there
[8:23:09] or in other locations,
[8:23:11] then they'll be able to
work with staff to identify
[8:23:14] the appropriate location and essentially
[8:23:16] make that block smaller in
terms of the residential ones,
[8:23:19] making the EPA block larger.
[8:23:21] So that's something we're looking for
[8:23:23] as part of that recommendation
[8:23:25] is that we'd have that flexibility
[8:23:26] to work with the applicant
to make that modification.
[8:23:29] And that's something similar
to what was done in Riverfront
[8:23:32] as well in terms of modifying
those buffers to become larger
[8:23:35] if the study work demonstrates
that that's necessary.
[8:23:39] - Thank you.
[8:23:40] Going back to the
industrial, the noise level,
[8:23:43] the class four, what is going
to happen about a complaint
[8:23:47] to the MOE again?
[8:23:48] We're back to the industrial
[8:23:50] and we have different
industrial around there.
[8:23:57] They're working with staff,
[8:23:58] but again, if there's a
complaint made to the MOE,
[8:24:01] where does that leave the residents?
[8:24:04] - Sorry, through you Mr. Mayor,
[8:24:05] similar to what Mackenzie said
[8:24:07] with the previous application.
[8:24:09] I mean, the MOE processes
are still in play.
[8:24:12] We're hoping, given the
nature of the operation
[8:24:15] of Niagara Peninsula, it's
not like a standard industry.
[8:24:18] I mean, they're not
manufacturing anything there.
[8:24:21] Yes, they are on call for 24 hours
[8:24:23] and may have to go on an emergency
[8:24:25] in the middle of the night.
[8:24:26] But I mean, they have trucks,
they have equipment out there
[8:24:29] and it's really a storage yard.
[8:24:32] I mean, they have
buildings for maintenance
[8:24:33] and what have you.
[8:24:34] So I'm assuming that the normal
process would be in place
[8:24:38] for complaints to the
Ministry of Environment.
[8:24:42] - Okay, same concerns again
about secondary owners,
[8:24:45] even if there was on the clauses.
[8:24:48] Let me see if I can get
a couple other in here.
[8:24:59] How is Warren Creek going to be monitored?
[8:25:02] Who's responsible to monitor
it after it's been changed
[8:25:05] to the little squiggly
all going all across?
[8:25:08] How long and how often is
it going to be monitored
[8:25:10] to see that it's actually running the way
[8:25:14] it's supposed to be.
[8:25:15] - Sorry, I just want through Mr. Mayor,
[8:25:17] In terms of the squiggly lines,
[8:25:18] that's just representational.
[8:25:21] Typically, it's a meander.
I mean, it's not that tight.
[8:25:24] We didn't just want to
just show a straight line.
[8:25:25] Oh, here's the water.
[8:25:26] But typically you design
it so it meanders.
[8:25:29] And now mind you, the
parks, people have asked
[8:25:32] for a path on one side.
[8:25:33] So, you know, it might
stay more to the north
[8:25:36] and the west side and the
path would be on the inside.
[8:25:39] So yeah, that's just
[8:25:41] - Okay, well, we will replace
squiggly with meander.
[8:25:44] I've just never seen
something like that and.
[8:25:46] - [Jim] You want to add to that Ms. Ceci?
[8:25:48] - Yeah, just to address
the Councillor's comment
[8:25:50] about the monitoring.
[8:25:51] So part of the condition from
the conservation authority
[8:25:54] is submission of a monitoring plan.
[8:25:56] So what they'll be
requesting is securities
[8:25:59] and this plan essentially
outlining you know,
[8:26:03] to the satisfaction of their staff,
[8:26:06] how the wetland compensation
will be monitored
[8:26:09] and in terms of that channel realignment
[8:26:12] and the success of that.
[8:26:13] So they'll have that monitoring plan
[8:26:15] and those securities in place for,
[8:26:17] they said a minimum of five years.
[8:26:19] - Five years. Okay. Thank you.
[8:26:19] And last question I'll squeeze in.
[8:26:23] Oh, I just lost it.
[8:26:29] I'll think about it. I have
one more quick question.
[8:26:31] I can't remember.
[8:26:34] - [Jim] Okay. We still have
15 seconds if you can find it.
[8:26:37] - My brain's not working
that fast right now.
[8:26:41] Oh, yes, with all of these
amendments and adjustments,
[8:26:46] is this application maybe
too premature at this point
[8:26:49] because we're adjusting
this, adjusting that,
[8:26:51] putting hold clauses?
[8:26:53] Is this too premature?
[8:26:55] - [Jim] Well, we'll go to our staff.
[8:26:56] The recommendations to approve.
[8:26:58] So I don't know who would address that.
[8:27:00] Ms. Ceci or Ms. Dolch?
[8:27:01] Whoever wants to, don't rush to the mic.
[8:27:05] - So I'll start and if
Ms. Ceci wants to add in.
[8:27:09] They've done all their due diligence
[8:27:11] in terms of all the environmental work.
[8:27:16] Obviously, if we had maybe
another council meeting,
[8:27:18] we may have held it a little bit,
[8:27:20] but in this case we felt satisfied
[8:27:23] that the environmental work was done.
[8:27:25] We met with the NPCA.
[8:27:27] The NPCA had a number
of conditions as well
[8:27:30] and felt it could go forward
[8:27:31] because they felt generally satisfied
[8:27:33] with what they were proposing.
[8:27:34] There's a lot of information
just more double checking
[8:27:39] than anything left at this point.
[8:27:41] So we have it detailed in
conditions as Ms. Ceci said.
[8:27:44] - Thank you very much.
[8:27:46] - Okay, great. Any other questions?
[8:27:49] I think we're good. Thank you, sir.
[8:27:52] The public meeting with respect
to the proposed draft plan
[8:27:55] of subdivision and zoning by-law
amendment is now concluded.
[8:27:59] What's the will? Councillor
Kerrio moves it. Second?
[8:28:03] Seconds it by Councillor Strange.
[8:28:05] If there's no further
discussion, we'll call that vote.
[8:28:07] All those in favor. Okay.
And that's unanimous.
[8:28:10] Thank you very much. Thank you, gentlemen.
[8:28:24] All right, Mr. Clerk, if
you'd please introduce
[8:28:26] the next item on the agenda.
[8:28:34] - A public meeting is now being convened
[8:28:35] to consider a proposed official plan
[8:28:38] and zoning by-law amendments
[8:28:39] for the Northwest Secondary Plan.
[8:28:42] In accordance with Bill 185,
the minister or the applicant
[8:28:46] or a specified person, public body,
[8:28:47] or registered owner of any land
[8:28:49] to which the official plan
amendment by-law will apply,
[8:28:52] who made oral submissions
at a public meeting
[8:28:54] or written submissions at city
council prior to the adoption
[8:28:57] of the official plan
amendment and/or passage
[8:28:59] of the by-law may appeal the EOP
[8:29:02] or the by-law to the
Ontario Land Tribunal.
[8:29:04] Third party appeals are
no longer permitted.
[8:29:08] And anyone who wants further
notice shall leave their name
[8:29:10] on the sign-in sheets located
just outside council chamber.
[8:29:14] - Thank you, Mr. Clerk.
[8:29:15] And I'll call on Chris Millar,
[8:29:16] Senior Project Manager Secondary Plans
[8:29:19] to explain the purpose and the reason
[8:29:21] for the proposed amendments.
[8:29:23] - Hello, good afternoon Mayor, council,
[8:29:26] members of the public and
anyone watching at home.
[8:29:30] I know you have a big agenda,
[8:29:32] so I'm going to try and
get swiftly through this.
[8:29:36] So yes Northwest secondary plan.
[8:29:41] Where is it? Let me do this one.
[8:29:46] Okay, so the subject lands,
[8:29:47] I'm sure everybody in this
room is aware of what this is.
[8:29:49] This is Mountain Road, Kalar Road,
[8:29:52] south end of the Hydro
Corridor over the QEW
[8:29:53] in the Montrose Road area.
[8:29:55] It's both just under 100 hectares,
[8:29:57] 95 and change 236 acres,
[8:30:00] there's 13 parcels in there
of 10 different owners.
[8:30:04] The secondary plan, you know, what it is,
[8:30:07] is intends to...
[8:30:08] It's really a long-term plan.
[8:30:10] You know, it's meant to guide development
[8:30:12] for the next few decades.
[8:30:13] It proactively addresses the need.
[8:30:15] So, you know, the need was
established when these lands
[8:30:18] were brought in by the region in 2022
[8:30:20] because you needed more greenfield
[8:30:22] for your future development in 2051.
[8:30:24] So land use you know,
it's arranged in a manner
[8:30:28] as complete community
principles and it helps
[8:30:34] with having something like this in place
[8:30:36] that helps with the capital planning,
[8:30:37] so we know what we have to do,
[8:30:38] and it also helps with the
financial planning, so.
[8:30:41] And it's delivered in the form
[8:30:42] of an official plan
amendment and inserted into,
[8:30:46] in this case here,
[8:30:47] we're amending the existing official plan,
[8:30:48] so it's going to be an amendment
[8:30:49] to the existing official plan.
[8:30:51] So when we started all of this,
[8:30:52] we had a community
focus group established.
[8:30:55] The community focus
group had developed this
[8:30:58] we'll call it the
aspirational vision statement.
[8:31:01] The Northwest community
accommodates people of all ages,
[8:31:03] abilities, and through a
mix of land use and housing.
[8:31:07] It has a connected and convenient system
[8:31:09] of complete streets, pathways,
access to natural areas
[8:31:13] and recreational areas within
and outside of the community.
[8:31:16] Is planned and designed to
anticipate the evolving needs
[8:31:19] of those who live, work and
play within the neighborhood.
[8:31:23] You know, the principles
of this plan is a compact,
[8:31:26] this is going to be a compact community.
[8:31:28] It's a compact built form
with principled urban design.
[8:31:32] Protect the critical pieces
of the environment there
[8:31:35] with protection for the
woodlot, to Ten-Mile-Creek
[8:31:38] in key locations for the
amenities of the community.
[8:31:42] So you know, centralized in my view.
[8:31:46] A wide range of housing
choices and densities
[8:31:48] that progress from the mixed use areas
[8:31:50] up at the northwest corner
and along Mountain Road
[8:31:52] as it progresses down through
the medium and down to the low
[8:31:55] as it gets towards the Hydro
Corridor and then Mount Carmel.
[8:31:59] A strong collector road network
and a strong AT network.
[8:32:03] I'm going to try and slip
through this one here.
[8:32:06] It was brought in the
urban areas I said, 2022.
[8:32:09] Both the region and the city
required secondary plans
[8:32:12] to be done, so they were started.
[8:32:15] This took a three phase approach,
[8:32:17] existing conditions,
some option development,
[8:32:20] and then of course the policy plan,
[8:32:21] which you're going to be
asked to recommendation
[8:32:25] for approval.
[8:32:27] So the engagement, like I mentioned,
[8:32:29] we had a community focus
group out of the gate.
[8:32:31] We had three meetings
with that focus group.
[8:32:32] We did a visioning some charrette work,
[8:32:34] and they digested and sent
feedback on the two option plans
[8:32:39] that the council looked at
back in September of last year.
[8:32:42] And so we met with the public.
[8:32:46] I have a public open door.
[8:32:47] You call me, I'm going to call you.
[8:32:49] You email me, I'm going to email you.
[8:32:50] So I've been wide open to
the public the whole way.
[8:32:53] You know, the owners of the
plan, they're all aware.
[8:32:57] Some have been active, some have not.
[8:32:59] But I've always been responsive to them
[8:33:02] in whenever they've
called or wanted to meet.
[8:33:05] Key agencies in, you know,
that I've had consultation with
[8:33:08] or communicated with
over the course of this
[8:33:11] include the Niagara region
and NPCA, Niagara Parks,
[8:33:14] or the Niagara Escarpment
Commission, sorry.
[8:33:16] MTO, Hydro One, Mississaugas of the Credit
[8:33:18] to the First Nation, Six
Nations, and the two boards.
[8:33:24] And municipal works have been
key in this and helping with,
[8:33:28] you know, commenting on
some of the study work
[8:33:31] that's come back from the consultants
[8:33:33] and worked with park staff
on making sure that were
[8:33:36] or keeping our eye on
what they were after.
[8:33:40] You know, the background studies,
[8:33:41] we had a TIA done,
transportation impact study
[8:33:45] and basically that's taking a benchmark
[8:33:48] of what's happening out and
around these roads right now.
[8:33:49] And after development's happening,
[8:33:51] when you need to do
improvements, you know,
[8:33:53] how much of these things are going to cost
[8:33:55] and ultimately at 2051 or
when this thing builds out,
[8:33:58] what's this going to look like?
[8:34:00] You know, how many lanes,
where the intersections,
[8:34:01] those types of things.
[8:34:04] Functional servicing, similar approach.
[8:34:05] What's out there today? Nothing
obviously as far as service.
[8:34:08] Well, I shouldn't say
that there's water mains.
[8:34:10] But the you know, where
they need to connect
[8:34:12] or where they're going to service this.
[8:34:14] The most feasible way to make
this community come online
[8:34:16] with the core service of water
sanitary and storm sewers.
[8:34:25] Looping the water mains is important.
[8:34:27] This will need a pumping
station and a force main.
[8:34:31] Those are probably the big pieces of this
[8:34:33] as a community to service these lands.
[8:34:37] So subwatershed study,
[8:34:40] obviously taking stock of the environment,
[8:34:41] what's out there, all the
botany, the ecological,
[8:34:46] the botanical inventories,
the hydrological function,
[8:34:50] even the hydro G,
[8:34:51] like the water, groundwaters.
[8:34:54] You know, that stuff was all
documented and continues to be,
[8:34:59] I'm going to say core pieces.
[8:35:01] And that's reflected in the designations
[8:35:04] that I put forward in the plan.
[8:35:06] It's basically done in similar,
[8:35:08] but it didn't keep pace
with the other studies
[8:35:10] because the subwatershed
studies, they take seasons.
[8:35:14] Like we have to get through
the spring, summer, winter.
[8:35:17] They get out there to do their inventories
[8:35:19] and looking at things
at the different points
[8:35:20] of the various seasons.
[8:35:23] Andy comes across and
makes some recommendations.
[8:35:26] During the draft, delivery
of that draft you know,
[8:35:29] staff had some questions
and concerns, I guess,
[8:35:33] and we felt that we needed
some additional eyes on this.
[8:35:37] So we did do a peer review and
the peer review did come back
[8:35:40] with an alternate sort of approach
[8:35:42] of what really was like
identified as wetland
[8:35:48] or some woodlands or any
other type of things.
[8:35:51] There was one professional opinion
[8:35:53] and a second professional
opinion that was varied.
[8:35:55] So that kind of led us to
putting in place a screening.
[8:35:59] So on the second schedule
[8:36:01] of the official plan amendment here,
[8:36:02] or the secondary plan
amendment AA, A, I think it is.
[8:36:07] There's some screening
below the central wood lot
[8:36:09] and there's some screening
on the north of Montrose
[8:36:13] along the east side of Regency's property.
[8:36:17] Those are identifying that you guys
[8:36:20] are going to have to do
some very detailed work
[8:36:22] and come up with the
answers of where or if
[8:36:25] any environmental that would be added
[8:36:28] to the ECA designation.
[8:36:31] So that's where we're at with that one.
[8:36:35] Land use compatibility.
[8:36:36] I'm happy to tell council
that there really, you know,
[8:36:38] isn't any industrial
that's going to be affected
[8:36:42] by this community coming online.
[8:36:44] We have two class two facilities
[8:36:48] that were identified within
even a thousand meters of this.
[8:36:52] One 700 meters away, Guald, the nursery.
[8:36:55] Not an issue when you're
dealing with class twos.
[8:36:58] 300 is the minimum distance,
[8:36:59] usually 70 meters of minimum separation.
[8:37:02] So that was one.
[8:37:03] And the other one is Commercial plaza down
[8:37:04] at Thorold Stone Road, Montrose.
[8:37:05] As you can tell, not an issue.
[8:37:07] It's completely built
up there with houses.
[8:37:09] So why would it even be an impact here?
[8:37:13] They did have some recommendations for.
[8:37:15] Later on in the studies
of the kind of things
[8:37:17] you were dealing with tonight
when you get the applications
[8:37:19] in, you know, noise and things like that
[8:37:22] of the actual applications themselves.
[8:37:24] They have to wait for them to come in
[8:37:25] to see what you're actually dealing with.
[8:37:27] As far as fiscal impact,
which was another study
[8:37:29] that was done.
[8:37:30] At the end of all of this,
[8:37:32] at the end, everything's built.
[8:37:33] You're looking at about six million,
[8:37:36] 6.8 million dollars in assessment.
[8:37:38] It worked out to be
about like 805 per person
[8:37:42] in the six or 7,000
people that are going to,
[8:37:45] 8,000 people that are
going to be jobs and people
[8:37:46] in this community.
[8:37:51] It was almost the wash.
[8:37:51] I think the term in
the fiscal impact study
[8:37:54] was that this is
generally revenue neutral.
[8:37:57] So that's a good thing.
[8:37:59] So just a quick, now we
get into some imagery
[8:38:01] and stuff like that, but just quickly,
[8:38:04] those two options were what
I came out with last year.
[8:38:08] And we took those to the
public, heard comments.
[8:38:12] I took them and I distilled
them into one of the,
[8:38:15] calling the preferred land use option
[8:38:18] or the preferred land use plan.
[8:38:19] That was brought to council
back in September of last year.
[8:38:22] Council endorsed that.
[8:38:23] And the reason they did that
was that I needed a plan
[8:38:25] to put to our consultants to say,
[8:38:27] okay guys, this is what you need to study
[8:38:29] and come back with all
your numbers and all your,
[8:38:31] you know, what are we going to
need for servicing and pipes
[8:38:33] and things like that.
[8:38:35] So that was the basis of the,
[8:38:39] I'll call it all the study
work, phase three study work.
[8:38:43] Then we had drafted the draft,
[8:38:45] we put a draft secondary plan together,
[8:38:47] draft zoning together,
[8:38:48] and we took that to the
public on April 1st.
[8:38:50] And that was at Gale Centre,
[8:38:52] and I would say that
was very well attended.
[8:38:55] You know, that we had probably
100, 110 people out there.
[8:38:59] So, you know, after that
meeting, we received comments
[8:39:02] from a number of submissions.
[8:39:04] They're all documented in
appendix five to the report.
[8:39:06] And then there were some
modifications that I was asked
[8:39:11] to look at and, you know,
I did make some changes.
[8:39:14] They're minor changes. I
feel they're minor changes.
[8:39:17] But you know, a lot of them
were from actually people
[8:39:21] I'm expecting you'll
hear from here tonight
[8:39:23] after I finished.
[8:39:25] But I felt that they were accommodated.
[8:39:28] And these arrows here are
just meant to illustrate
[8:39:30] what things kind of changed.
[8:39:32] So I'm not sure.
[8:39:33] I think you can get the
picture of the areas of change.
[8:39:36] If there's any questions after
this please feel free to ask.
[8:39:41] You know, the amendment itself,
the official plan amendment
[8:39:44] requires a little bit more than just,
[8:39:46] here's a plan, put it in.
[8:39:47] Our existing official plan
has a bunch of maps in it.
[8:39:50] Those maps are outdated. I'll call that.
[8:39:52] They need to be updated
because they didn't show
[8:39:55] the urban area boundary even being in.
[8:39:58] So these are referred to as,
I'll call these housekeeping.
[8:40:01] This is just some of the maps
in the existing official plan
[8:40:04] that have to be updated
because we're doing this
[8:40:05] and these lands are brought
into the urban area.
[8:40:08] And Schedule A has got
to change, A1, A2, B, D,
[8:40:12] and the two appendices, C and D.
[8:40:17] So this is the land use
plan that's Schedule A
[8:40:20] for the secondary plan
that I'm asking council
[8:40:22] to consider approval.
[8:40:26] And with that, the next one
would be the environmental,
[8:40:29] which showing these lands here.
[8:40:32] I think we have a silver
maple mineral marsh
[8:40:37] and the hickory oak on the top right.
[8:40:41] There's some species of special concern.
[8:40:44] The avian peewee and
there's some black gum tree,
[8:40:49] provincially rare and there's
some buttonbush in there, so.
[8:40:52] But this schedule here is
where you see the screening.
[8:40:55] So there's a screening up at the top.
[8:40:56] It's a little bit difficult to see here,
[8:40:58] but those areas will be studied further.
[8:41:00] And if there's anything there,
if there is anything there
[8:41:02] that needs to be saved, then
it will get added to the ECA.
[8:41:06] This is transportation plan.
[8:41:08] Shows the network of the collector roads,
[8:41:10] but active transportation.
[8:41:12] And you remember from, you know,
[8:41:13] the transportation master
plan a few months back
[8:41:16] that the council approved
that looking at having more
[8:41:19] active transportation in these roadways
[8:41:21] in boulevard trails were something
[8:41:23] that we want to do because
we're hearing from the people
[8:41:24] that they don't want to be on the road
[8:41:26] with their bikes or anything like that.
[8:41:27] They want to be off the road.
[8:41:28] So if it's just off the road on the curb,
[8:41:31] getting a lot more use.
[8:41:35] So just visually here, just
the yellow, the low density.
[8:41:38] This is the kind of
thing that you might find
[8:41:39] in the low density is subdivisions.
[8:41:42] Townhouse, semis, singles.
[8:41:46] And the one on the left there
really is a representation
[8:41:48] of what we're looking
at maybe along the face
[8:41:50] of the QEW at Montrose Road.
[8:41:52] Instead of a noise wall,
[8:41:54] this is something that
I would like to see.
[8:41:56] Is an urban design face put to that
[8:41:58] because the wall of these buildings here
[8:42:00] act as the noise wall.
[8:42:01] Why not put a face to the community?
[8:42:05] Here we have the medium density.
[8:42:07] That's where you're going to find stacked
[8:42:09] back-to-back town homes,
maybe some block town homes
[8:42:12] or a four to six storey
apartment buildings.
[8:42:15] This would be the purple
area here is the mixed use.
[8:42:18] This is where you're going to
find the highest densities,
[8:42:20] the highest heights, and
ground floor commercial,
[8:42:22] second floor office type uses.
[8:42:24] So you know, that's
sort of representative.
[8:42:27] So I've just tried to use these images
[8:42:30] as the kind of massing
and things that you'd see.
[8:42:34] The park, the community park
in the center of this plan
[8:42:37] you know, parks staff
have maintained the need
[8:42:40] for this community park
over the course of my work.
[8:42:43] Making sure that I'm staying tuned to it.
[8:42:46] It's centrally located there.
[8:42:49] They're looking for four
hectares of usable park space.
[8:42:53] So that's represented in the plan. Sorry.
[8:42:58] And then we have the
stormwater management.
[8:43:01] There's three ponds.
[8:43:02] There's going to be three catchment areas
[8:43:03] in a post development
situation or scenario.
[8:43:05] And each are going to need a pond.
[8:43:07] They're down close to where the Ten,
[8:43:09] where they're going to settle.
[8:43:10] These are going to be wet
ponds or plan to be wet ponds.
[8:43:13] So we'll have a permanent pool.
[8:43:14] So you're going to have
like this nice aesthetic
[8:43:17] where you're going to
have, you know, water,
[8:43:19] trees those types of things.
[8:43:21] And really controlling the
water and the discharge
[8:43:25] will be into the Ten.
[8:43:27] The hydro corridor, speaking with them,
[8:43:30] they're on board for
allowing us to do trails
[8:43:34] along the hydro corridor, which is great.
[8:43:36] Connect the community, get
people around that whole cycle.
[8:43:38] Connect the southern
community for that matter.
[8:43:42] But we of course need their approval, so
[8:43:43] But they've been good.
[8:43:46] The woodlots like I said, it's
going to be designated ECA
[8:43:49] and zone DP, currently zoned
agricultural in the case.
[8:43:53] So we're putting it into that protection.
[8:43:56] And this is just a schedule
of the zoning by-law map.
[8:44:00] When we did the change from
what you guys saw September
[8:44:04] of last year till the
modifications that I did make
[8:44:07] to the plan to bring in here for you,
[8:44:10] one of the things that I
did was try and make sure
[8:44:12] that I was balancing the population,
[8:44:14] unit yields and employment.
[8:44:17] I'm close. I'm only minus.
There's difference of 37 units.
[8:44:22] A difference of 490
population and 190 more jobs,
[8:44:27] but jobs population.
[8:44:29] So 350 people really and 37
units. So it's pretty balanced.
[8:44:34] I wasn't just doing that on a whim.
[8:44:37] I did that work, calculated that work,
[8:44:39] but I wanted to be sure that
it wasn't going to impact
[8:44:43] the transportation study
work, the technical studies,
[8:44:46] and the servicing.
[8:44:50] So the pumping station, force mains
[8:44:52] and things of that nature.
[8:44:54] I wanted to make sure that these numbers
[8:44:56] were coming back balanced,
but I put it to my engineers
[8:44:58] and said, "Hey, have I done a good job?
[8:45:00] Does this balance? Does this work?"
[8:45:02] And they put the...
[8:45:03] You see the addendums in the reports.
[8:45:06] Yes, you know, they can support that.
[8:45:08] And it's inconsequential.
[8:45:10] So just getting to the end here, folks,
[8:45:13] secondary plans a long-term plan.
[8:45:15] The plan is a step in the process.
[8:45:18] It provides next level planning to assist
[8:45:20] with capital and financial.
[8:45:22] It protects the natural features
that we have identified.
[8:45:26] It has a broad mix of units.
[8:45:28] Community amenities and
assets are optimally local,
[8:45:33] complementing one another in
the central part of the plan.
[8:45:38] Core servicing, transportation, schematics
[8:45:41] have been modeled and
demonstrated feasible.
[8:45:43] Additional studies will be required
[8:45:44] because we are dealing
with the MTO and the region
[8:45:47] have a lot of stuff here.
[8:45:48] They have obviously the highway corridor
[8:45:49] and the on-ramp is a big
concern for them for traffic.
[8:45:53] But the region actually
owns a lot of the roads
[8:45:54] that are around this.
[8:45:55] I mean, the only thing the city
owns is Kalar from Mountain
[8:45:57] down to the...
[8:45:59] When I say own, control
is Kalar from Mountain
[8:46:03] down to the Hydro Corridor.
[8:46:07] And it gives the residents in the area
[8:46:10] an idea of what they should expect
[8:46:12] when things start to be built.
[8:46:14] So I'm looking for
council's approval on that.
[8:46:16] So I can just leave this slide up,
[8:46:18] but I can start taking questions
from council if you'd like.
[8:46:22] - [Jim] Okay, do you have
any questions for Mr. Millar,
[8:46:24] from council.
[8:46:26] Sorry, okay, do we have any
questions of Mr. Millar?
[8:46:31] Okay. Seeing none. Thank you, sir.
[8:46:35] Members of the public
are advised that failure
[8:46:39] to make an oral or written
submission at this public meeting
[8:46:43] could result in the Ontario Land Tribunal
[8:46:45] dismissing any referral that it receives.
[8:46:48] Council will hear from anyone
other than the applicant
[8:46:51] who wishes to speak to
the proposed amendments.
[8:46:54] Mr. Clerk, do we have
anyone pre-registered?
[8:46:58] - Yes, Your Worship. There were a couple.
[8:47:00] Cheryl Sprung and Robert Loeffler.
[8:47:13] - Turn any of this on.
[8:47:14] - You can lower that
whole podium if you like.
[8:47:16] The whole podium.
[8:47:17] There's a little button
on the front there.
[8:47:18] - Is it on?
- The other way.
[8:47:20] - Oh, okay.
[8:47:21] - And just state again, if you could,
[8:47:22] your name, your address,
[8:47:23] and then you'll have up to
five minutes once you start.
[8:47:25] - Okay, Cheryl Sprung, 2600
Montrose Road, Unit three,
[8:47:30] Shady Oaks Park.
[8:47:32] - Oh yeah. Yep.
[8:47:32] - Okay. We purchased a home,
moved it there in 2019.
[8:47:38] Didn't hear anything about this until?
[8:47:41] - 27th.
[8:47:42] - 27th of July.
[8:47:44] And we are shocked. Our house
is currently up for sale.
[8:47:49] Pretty sure that it's not going to sell
[8:47:51] with this proposed plan,
[8:47:52] because obviously the land
that we live on is leased land,
[8:47:58] and it's going to be taken
in as part of the plan.
[8:48:02] We're kind of concerned
that we're not going to sell
[8:48:06] because of what's coming
down the pipe sometime
[8:48:09] in the near future or long-term future.
[8:48:11] - Who's responsible for compensation?
[8:48:14] - We want to know if there's going to be
[8:48:16] any kind of compensation made to us.
[8:48:18] Our house is on the market
right now for 179,000.
[8:48:22] Our realtor has been
advised now of the plan,
[8:48:25] and it's making it very difficult
for him to sell our home.
[8:48:29] - And I'm sorry, how long
ago did you say you moved in?
[8:48:31] - We moved there in 2019.
- '19.
[8:48:34] - We brought the home there.
[8:48:35] It's a 2006 model.
[8:48:39] It has been all completely
upgraded, refurbished inside.
[8:48:44] My husband's a general contractor.
[8:48:46] That's what he's done to
the inside of the home.
[8:48:48] Some of the other places that are in there
[8:48:51] have mortgages on them.
[8:48:53] Some of them are worth probably $5,000.
[8:48:56] We cannot be put in the same
category as everybody there.
[8:49:00] And we're hoping that we won't be.
[8:49:02] - Okay. And can it be moved? Can it be-
[8:49:04] - It could be,
[8:49:05] but there's a very difficult
situation with that.
[8:49:07] Most parks where you can move them to,
[8:49:10] have a 20 year expiration
date on the age of the home.
[8:49:14] - So it's 20 years old.
[8:49:15] - So if moving it, it's 20 years old now.
[8:49:17] It's a 2006 model.
[8:49:20] So moving it to somewhere
else would be a very.
[8:49:23] It would be very difficult.
[8:49:24] - Okay, got it.
- And it's also very difficult
[8:49:27] to find those places available nowadays
[8:49:30] - Any questions of our
speakers from councillors?
[8:49:34] Sorry, I was kind of
hogging the questions.
[8:49:36] Yep. Councillor Strange.
[8:49:37] - [Mike] Yeah. I'm just, so
you live in like a mobile home?
[8:49:41] - It's a mobile home.
- [Mike] A mobile home. Okay.
[8:49:43] - Correct.
- [Mike] There's a bunch.
[8:49:46] - Yeah, there's 15
- Or 16.
[8:49:47] - 16 units there.
- 16.
[8:49:49] - Plus a rental house.
[8:49:50] - And we've heard no
discussion on what's to become
[8:49:53] of this park and the
residents that live there.
[8:49:56] It's never been brought up.
[8:49:58] - The owner of the?
[8:49:59] - The owner of the
property was supposedly,
[8:50:01] according to Mr. Millar's
information that I read online,
[8:50:05] was supposed to make notice to anybody
[8:50:09] that's renting to more
than seven or more people,
[8:50:12] which there's plenty more
than seven living there.
[8:50:14] We were supposed to get
information on this meeting today,
[8:50:18] by July 11th.
[8:50:20] - So the owner never got any information
[8:50:22] or never gave it to you?
[8:50:23] - We did receive information.
[8:50:24] However, we did not receive
it by mail until July 26th.
[8:50:29] - What's the name of the?
[8:50:32] - Stanford Realty.
[8:50:33] - Shady Oaks.
- Shady Oaks.
[8:50:34] - Park.
- Mobile.
[8:50:35] - Mobile Home Park. Yeah.
- Okay.
[8:50:37] - Yeah.
[8:50:38] - It's owned by Stanford Realty?
[8:50:40] - We don't know who owns them.
[8:50:41] - Managed by them.
[8:50:42] - It's property management.
[8:50:44] And I'm pretty sure that it's
an Ontario limited corporation
[8:50:47] that owns the property that we live on.
[8:50:49] - We can find that information out.
[8:50:50] - Okay. That would be greatly appreciated.
[8:50:52] - That's great. Okay.
Thank you. Appreciate.
[8:50:54] Is there any other questions or comments
[8:50:56] by staff or anyone else?
[8:50:57] No? Okay. Thank you very much.
[8:50:59] - Okay, thank you.
[8:51:02] - Mr. Clerk, do we have
anyone else registered?
[8:51:07] - Next we have Italia Gilberti.
[8:51:09] speaking on behalf of Club Italia.
[8:51:12] - Oh, there's Italia. It's
here. Hello, come forward.
[8:51:16] You can adjust the podium, Italia.
[8:51:20] - Can I defer my comments
till after my partner,
[8:51:23] Rocky Vacca speaks?
[8:51:25] Because I'm just going to
reiterate what he says.
[8:51:28] I act for Club Italia.
[8:51:30] I have three of the board
members here with me,
[8:51:33] and we fully support the
comments that Mr. Vacca has made
[8:51:38] to staff and to council
through some correspondence
[8:51:41] that was sent in on Friday.
[8:51:43] I don't want to take away his thunder.
[8:51:45] So we're here to support
Mountain View and their comments
[8:51:50] and specifically their plan.
[8:51:53] - Okay. Yeah, that's great.
[8:51:54] - Thank you.
[8:51:55] - Oh, thank you. Okay.
[8:51:57] Mr. Clerk, do we have
anyone else registered?
[8:51:59] - And well, just before
we go to Mr. Vacca,
[8:52:01] you could go to the gallery
[8:52:02] and see if there's anyone else here.
[8:52:03] - Sure, is there anyone here
other than the presenter?
[8:52:06] Yes, come forward. Yep.
Well, one at a time.
[8:52:08] And then Mr. Bacher, if you
want to introduce yourself
[8:52:12] and your address and
then you have up to five-
[8:52:13] - Bacher, thank you.
[8:52:16] Yes, I'm pleased to speak in
support of the secondary plan.
[8:52:23] We understand that the Niagara
Falls Planning Department
[8:52:29] for the past five years has
taken a very good approach
[8:52:34] to these lands.
[8:52:37] The planning department,
I believe five years ago,
[8:52:41] they made very clear
that they were opposed
[8:52:45] to the urban expansion of this area.
[8:52:51] Gave very good reasons
for that it was not...
[8:52:55] It would actually exacerbate
the planning problems
[8:52:58] of addressing the real core housing needs
[8:53:03] of the City of Niagara Falls.
[8:53:06] The region wrongly did
not follow their advice
[8:53:10] and the expansion in effect
was imposed on the city.
[8:53:17] But after that, the city
council did the right thing
[8:53:25] and did damage control through
this secondary plan process.
[8:53:33] Which was quite elaborate
and had very good input,
[8:53:40] especially the ecological
studies by Aquafor Beech.
[8:53:47] I would like to stress
[8:53:50] that the good result because
of really heroic work
[8:53:58] by someone in the gallery
and Jean Grandoni.
[8:54:03] There's also expert Dr. Mike Dickman,
[8:54:13] who gave excellent testimony
to the Ontario Municipal Board
[8:54:20] about the problems of
the original concept plan
[8:54:24] by Club Italia,
[8:54:28] which fortunately has not been followed
[8:54:31] in the secondary plan.
[8:54:34] The original concept plan,
[8:54:37] contrary to the guidelines
for stormwater management,
[8:54:44] called for a stormwater management pond
[8:54:48] in the middle of the large forest
[8:54:53] that's a large block in green.
[8:54:58] And the work by the secondary plan
[8:55:00] indicated that this is
an old growth forest
[8:55:03] of more than hundred years of age.
[8:55:09] And as a result of the secondary plan
[8:55:14] contrary to what was originally
proposed by Club Italia,
[8:55:20] there is not going to be any
stormwater management pond
[8:55:25] in this old growth forest.
[8:55:28] The stormwater management ponds
[8:55:35] will be adjacent to the forest
and essentially buffer it
[8:55:40] and protect the wildlife in there
[8:55:44] that are quite significant.
[8:55:47] In addition to the species
mentioned by Mr. Millar,
[8:55:53] they're two significant amphibians,
the western chorus frog,
[8:56:00] which is federally endangered
and the spring peeper.
[8:56:07] And also the community park
south of this old growth forest
[8:56:14] will, you know, buffer
and protect the wildlife
[8:56:17] which need, you know, additional range
[8:56:19] beyond the core woodland area.
[8:56:27] So I'm quite pleased at the outcome
[8:56:32] and that speaks volume for the good work
[8:56:37] of citizens such as Jean
Grandoni and Mike Dickman
[8:56:42] getting involved in the process
[8:56:45] for a very long time and
having a positive impact
[8:56:50] in the land use planning project process
[8:56:54] to protect the environment.
[8:56:59] So that's my.
[8:57:00] - All right, thank you.
[8:57:01] Thank you. Any questions for
Mr. Bacher? No, we're good.
[8:57:04] That's great. Thank you very much.
[8:57:06] - Thank you.
[8:57:09] - Ms. Grandoni, did you
want to come forward?
[8:57:14] Yeah, well, the only thing
is we need the microphone
[8:57:16] because we won't be able to
hear you, especially at home.
[8:57:20] Oh, well, she's almost there
now, but thanks. Thanks, Logan.
[8:57:24] Appreciate that.
[8:57:30] - I'm not as complimentary as my friend,
[8:57:33] Mr. Bacher I'm afraid.
[8:57:36] I don't agree with this, never will.
[8:57:39] There was no agricultural representatives
[8:57:42] on your focus group, and we haven't heard
[8:57:45] how you're going to service this.
[8:57:47] I assume it's going into the
Kalar Road pumping station,
[8:57:51] which is nothing but a ticking time bomb.
[8:57:54] It's had all kinds of
backups in recent storms.
[8:57:58] So I'd like some answers
[8:58:00] as to how you're going to service it,
[8:58:02] where the sewage is going to end up.
[8:58:05] And you should be asked,
[8:58:15] council should be asking questions like
[8:58:18] how often does the alarm go off?
[8:58:21] When was the last pumping station flood?
[8:58:26] And how it fared in the
recent storms. Thank you.
[8:58:34] - Okay. Thank you, Ms. Grandoni.
[8:58:36] Maybe I don't know if
we can go to Mr. Sticca,
[8:58:40] who can help us out on
the municipal works.
[8:58:42] And then Mr. Millar.
[8:58:44] I don't, Mr. Millar,
did you want to jump in?
[8:58:46] Okay. Yeah, that'd be great.
[8:58:54] - Thank you.
[8:58:55] Let me just say that the
agricultural representatives,
[8:58:59] these lands aren't...
[8:59:03] Coming out of agricultural
happened back in 2022 when-
[8:59:06] - [Audience Member] The
whole area is like this.
[8:59:09] All rented. That's how badly
you looked after our farms.
[8:59:13] - Yeah, but I'm just talking about
[8:59:14] the secondary plan itself.
[8:59:16] That actually happened back in 2022
[8:59:18] when the region brought these lands in.
[8:59:20] It's brought in for urban development.
[8:59:23] You know, the agricultural
study work was done
[8:59:26] at that time at the region.
[8:59:28] You know, so the whole selection process
[8:59:30] of the boundaries of which
sites were the most appropriate
[8:59:34] to bring in.
[8:59:34] All that work happened back in 2020, 2022,
[8:59:38] that period of time.
[8:59:39] So they are called
agricultural impact study
[8:59:42] was prepared by the
region to bring these in.
[8:59:44] So I'm just dealing with the lands inside,
[8:59:46] which are, here's your
community development land
[8:59:51] and go plan your community.
[8:59:53] They're making us do that. So that's fine.
[8:59:56] Kalar Road, that is the most...
[9:00:00] That is the destination for the effluent
[9:00:02] from all of this community.
[9:00:04] There will be a pumping station
built somewhere, you know,
[9:00:07] in the lower area down
south of the Club Italia.
[9:00:14] And a pumping station in a
force main that will take
[9:00:18] the collection of this community's
effluent all the way down
[9:00:21] south of Thorold Stone Road
[9:00:23] to the Kalar Road pumping station
[9:00:26] As far as capacities and
things of that nature go,
[9:00:29] that's all engineering stuff.
[9:00:31] I do know that the region
has capacity right now
[9:00:34] in that plant.
[9:00:35] I do know it will need upgrading by 2051,
[9:00:37] but everything we do here,
this whole pumping station,
[9:00:40] the force mains, we have to get, you know,
[9:00:44] that there will be a need
for the ministry approvals,
[9:00:47] regional approvals.
[9:00:49] It's not something that we're,
you know, doing in isolation.
[9:00:51] We need to gain the people
who control those services
[9:00:57] regionally right now have
to gain their approval
[9:01:00] and they're well aware of this.
[9:01:02] They brought the lands into
the community for development.
[9:01:05] So it's not as though it's
something new to them.
[9:01:09] Thank you. Sorry your Honor.
[9:01:10] - Thank you
[9:01:12] Anything to add? No? Okay.
[9:01:14] I think that answers that for now.
[9:01:16] Is there anyone else here
other than the applicant
[9:01:18] who wishes to address council?
[9:01:19] Yes, please come forward.
[9:01:22] You can state your name and address
[9:01:23] and then up to five minutes.
[9:01:29] - I live at 2600 Montrose Road, unit two.
[9:01:31] Bob and Cheryl, my neighbors.
I bought the place in 2020.
[9:01:37] Me and my wife though we
were going to retire there.
[9:01:39] Nobody let us know that all
this was going to happen.
[9:01:41] So we don't know.
[9:01:43] Like what about the 15, 20
people that live in there?
[9:01:45] - [Jim] You're talking about Shady Oaks?
[9:01:47] - What happens to us? Yeah.
- [Jim] Shady Oaks.
[9:01:48] - That's what I want to know.
[9:01:49] - [Jim] Were you not notified either?
[9:01:51] - Not at all.
[9:01:52] - [Jim] Nobody was notified.
- Not at all by anybody.
[9:01:54] - [Jim] We'll have to
follow up on it. Pardon me?
[9:01:57] - Not by anybody.
[9:01:58] - [Jim] Okay. Well, we'll follow up.
[9:01:59] This is good information.
[9:02:01] - We'd just like to know what's
going to happen to us people
[9:02:03] that live there.
[9:02:04] - Yeah.
[9:02:05] - You know, like she said,
some are worth 5,000.
[9:02:07] We paid a little over 100,000 for ours.
[9:02:09] I mean, we thought we were
going to retire there.
[9:02:12] And come to find out
that it's not a thing.
[9:02:15] So I just want to be on the record.
[9:02:18] - Just before you run away, I
think Councillor Nieuwesteeg
[9:02:20] would like to ask you a question.
[9:02:21] - Actually, I'm not sure
who I'm directing it to.
[9:02:23] So my understanding is we sent a notice
[9:02:27] to the owner of that land area.
[9:02:31] What happens in a case like,
[9:02:32] there's somebody has to hold
some responsibility here.
[9:02:34] This is unfair.
[9:02:36] It does not make us feel very good
[9:02:37] that you're here in this situation
[9:02:39] because we know that
there's a process in place.
[9:02:42] We are confident that
the process is in place
[9:02:45] to get to this point right
now when we've been doing this
[9:02:48] for two years and to find out
that you've not been notified
[9:02:52] and can be technically out of your homes.
[9:02:56] - [Audience Member] Be homeless.
[9:02:57] - Homeless. This is
something that disturbs me.
[9:03:01] So I want to put some...
[9:03:03] I think we have to take some action here
[9:03:06] and figure out who is responsible.
[9:03:07] - Well, there's about 15,
20 people that live there.
[9:03:10] You know, I'm not the only one.
[9:03:11] - It's just wrong.
[9:03:12] - The only ones that's just, you know.
[9:03:13] - I don't know if Mr. Millar,
can you speak to that?
[9:03:15] Maybe Mr. Millar can address this because,
[9:03:18] just so you know, we hear
you and we're concerned.
[9:03:21] This is not a good situation.
[9:03:24] - Yeah, Mr. Millar, what can you tell us
[9:03:26] about the Shady Oaks area,
[9:03:29] the mobile homes and the status of that
[9:03:32] and notification and it's
obviously concerning.
[9:03:35] We don't want people to end up homeless
[9:03:36] because the landlord didn't
share the information.
[9:03:39] - Well, that's correct.
[9:03:41] So let me give you an
overview of, you know,
[9:03:44] making this whole situation happen.
[9:03:46] First of all, the very
first thing was these lands
[9:03:49] coming into the urban
area, 2022, the region.
[9:03:52] I mean these lands are brought
in for urban development.
[9:03:55] That should have been sort
of like the first signal
[9:03:57] that something's going to
happen or change is on the way.
[9:04:01] As far as we're concerned city wise,
[9:04:04] when this was initiated,
every property owner.
[9:04:07] I sent letter to every
property owner saying,
[9:04:10] "Listen, we're going to
start a secondary plan.
[9:04:11] Give me all your contact information
[9:04:12] so that if I need to
reach you, I can." Okay?
[9:04:15] So I had established all of that.
[9:04:17] I had all the landowners,
except one didn't want to sign,
[9:04:21] but I had all the landowners
sign an access agreement
[9:04:24] so that the consultants could go on site
[9:04:26] to do their study work.
[9:04:28] So, you know, that was happening.
[9:04:29] And every time they went on the site,
[9:04:32] I would send emails to
all the owners saying,
[9:04:35] "Listen, we have consultants.
[9:04:37] They're going to be out on the site.
[9:04:39] Can you please let anybody
who's renting or, you know,
[9:04:42] is using the land know that
there's going to be people
[9:04:44] on the property?" I can't
speak for, you know,
[9:04:47] the owners getting that email.
[9:04:49] I can't, you know, say, "Hey,
did you tell everybody?"
[9:04:53] I just sent them the email.
[9:04:55] But certainly all of the
public information meetings
[9:04:57] were in the paper, they were on Facebook.
[9:04:59] They were broadcast you
know, with all our sources.
[9:05:03] Like that stuff there we had
in the paper, on the websites.
[9:05:06] We've gone beyond with
a notice. Well beyond.
[9:05:10] And then but you know,
[9:05:12] our consultant teams were
on the site plenty of times
[9:05:15] and I would have contacted
and asked that they be done.
[9:05:18] I can show you emails
because I have the emails.
[9:05:20] So in that respect, the you know,
[9:05:24] the circulated notice for
the statutory portion,
[9:05:27] so the open house, you know all
of the owners got the letter
[9:05:31] that we're having the open house
[9:05:32] and the notice on the open house
[9:05:35] and that statutory meeting
would be happening.
[9:05:38] And 120 meters were circulated as well,
[9:05:40] but these people are landowners.
[9:05:42] So I've had notices
going to the ownership.
[9:05:45] I can't let you know why, you know,
[9:05:48] the owners here were not.
[9:05:50] - Yeah. Oh, no. I don't
think anyone's faulting you.
[9:05:52] We need to get to the bottom of this
[9:05:54] and find out why it wasn't
disseminated amongst
[9:05:56] all the residents there.
[9:05:58] So we'll get to the.
[9:05:59] So, but you notified the owner
and it's incumbent upon them
[9:06:03] to share with the rest of the people.
[9:06:04] - Asked to share with any tenants.
[9:06:05] - Yeah, they must. Yeah, exactly.
[9:06:08] - So nevertheless, that's the situation,
[9:06:10] but I just would also like
to know that, you know,
[9:06:12] that some of the things that are occurring
[9:06:14] or some of the things you might hear
[9:06:16] really are not in the city's purview.
[9:06:18] There are tenants, landlord issues
[9:06:23] that are Residential
Tenancy Act or civil matters
[9:06:26] that we shouldn't maybe be delving into.
[9:06:29] So I just want to make
sure that that's clear,
[9:06:32] that, you know.
[9:06:33] - No, I appreciate that.
[9:06:34] Just the fact that they're
residents of the city, right?
[9:06:36] We need to take care of them.
[9:06:38] Appreciate that. Thank you, Mr. Millar.
[9:06:40] Is there anyone else here
other than the applicant
[9:06:42] who wishes to address
council on this matter?
[9:06:47] Okay. Look. Oh, okay. So we're
ready to move forward now.
[9:06:50] Council will now hear from the applicant
[9:06:53] or his or her representative.
[9:07:01] - Mr. Mayor, before we start the clock,
[9:07:03] if we can just get Schedule
A-8 in the clean by-law
[9:07:08] I sent on Friday on the screen,
[9:07:10] I'll be referring to that schedule.
[9:07:17] - [Jim] Whoops.
[9:07:28] - It was by-law 2026-078,
that one, not the 791.
[9:07:34] - [Council Member] 078, yeah.
[9:07:35] - I believe it was 78, the clean one.
[9:07:40] Yeah, I don't think.
[9:07:41] I don't know if that's the one I sent you.
[9:07:42] If you go to. Is that the clean one?
[9:07:45] - [Council member] This is 078.
[9:07:47] - Is it the clean one I sent
on Friday or is this the one.
[9:07:49] Okay, perfect. Yeah, if you
can go to schedule A8, please.
[9:08:04] - [Assistant] Looks terrible, hey?
[9:08:17] - You're getting close. Yeah. Keep going.
[9:08:19] - [Assistant] That's four.
[9:08:21] - That's the one right
there. Okay. Thank you.
[9:08:25] Mr. Mayor, members of council,
[9:08:27] again, I'm a partner at the
law firm Sullivan Mahoney LLP,
[9:08:29] Rocky Vacca, appearing on behalf
[9:08:31] of MVORA Developments, Inc.
[9:08:33] And its principal, Mark Basciano.
[9:08:37] So posted on the agenda
is a clean revised copy
[9:08:40] of by-laws 2026-078 and by-laws 2026-079,
[9:08:45] which we sent through
on Friday, I believe.
[9:08:48] Which I will be asking that
you approve this evening.
[9:08:51] Also posted on the agenda
is a letter from Club Italia
[9:08:54] which supports MVORA's position
[9:08:57] and approves of the revised
by-laws for passage by council.
[9:09:01] From the perspective of my client,
[9:09:03] and I believe also from the
perspective of Club Italia,
[9:09:06] since they approved the revised by-laws
[9:09:10] that were sent through.
[9:09:11] It is imperative that these
by-laws get passed this evening,
[9:09:15] given the continued cost of any delays
[9:09:17] to both of my client and Club Italia.
[9:09:22] MVORA is the largest landowner
within the plan area,
[9:09:25] and together with Club Italia
own the majority of the lands
[9:09:28] within the plan area.
[9:09:30] The only outstanding issues
with the plan and by-laws
[9:09:33] relate to the location
[9:09:34] and size of the proposed
park within the plan,
[9:09:38] the location of the future
school site within the plan,
[9:09:41] and the inclusion of townhouses
in the proposed by-laws
[9:09:44] within the medium and
low density designations.
[9:09:47] The inclusion of townhouses
is a permitted use,
[9:09:51] speaks for itself and is quite
common throughout the city
[9:09:53] and other subdivisions.
[9:09:56] Now looking at Schedule
A-8 that we provided,
[9:10:00] if you look at the
location of the park CP.
[9:10:05] So in what staff has provided.
[9:10:08] Staff wants the park to front
on two roads for visibility
[9:10:11] and for on-street parking.
[9:10:14] We disagree.
[9:10:17] The park and the location
proposed by staff,
[9:10:20] eliminates 500 feet of
developable frontage
[9:10:23] and construction of 15 homes
and will cost the city 555,000
[9:10:29] in development charges
and annual property taxes
[9:10:32] of $100,000.
[9:10:35] We also disagree with staff
[9:10:37] as there is more than
enough space within the park
[9:10:39] to develop a parking lot,
even within a five-acre-park,
[9:10:43] as we are suggesting.
[9:10:45] This is safer than having
the parks along the streets.
[9:10:51] Finally, we disagree with staff
as there is ample visibility
[9:10:54] from the more than 550 feet of frontage
[9:10:57] on the one street in addition
to the low density uses
[9:11:00] surrounding the park.
[9:11:02] The park, as we've shown on schedule A8,
[9:11:04] is where we are requesting
the park to be located
[9:11:07] for the reasons I've just given.
[9:11:09] Now, dealing with the size of the park,
[9:11:11] staff wants a 10 acre park.
[9:11:14] There is currently no
park within a subdivision
[9:11:18] that is 10 acres in the
City of Niagara Falls.
[9:11:21] Parks and subdivisions that already exist
[9:11:24] in this area of the city
include Deerfield, five acres.
[9:11:28] Robert F. Keighan, 2.3
acres, Mulhern, four acres,
[9:11:32] Alpine, three acres, Valor, three acres,
[9:11:34] Mount Forest, two acres,
Preakness, six acres.
[9:11:37] And the only one that comes close
[9:11:38] is Mount Carmel at nine acres.
[9:11:41] Staff's justification for
a 10 acre park as set out
[9:11:44] in the matrix and staff's report
[9:11:47] is because the Niagara
Escarpment Commission
[9:11:49] is not as permissive with
introducing facilities
[9:11:53] that otherwise would be found
in the planned park space.
[9:11:57] No description is given
as to what is proposed
[9:12:00] in the planned parks space.
[9:12:03] In any event, as many of you may be aware,
[9:12:06] I just happen to be chair
[9:12:07] of the Niagara Escarpment Commission.
[9:12:10] I very much disagree with the assertion
[9:12:12] that the NEC is not permissive
[9:12:14] when it comes to park uses
within the escarpment plan area.
[9:12:19] Section 1.5.3, sub 13 of
the Niagara Escarpment Plan,
[9:12:23] expressly states that uses
in the parks and open space
[9:12:27] within the escarpment are permitted.
[9:12:29] One example is Olympic Park in Dundas,
[9:12:32] which has recreational
facilities such as sports fields,
[9:12:35] a community centre, and other amenities,
[9:12:37] which were all approved by the NEC.
[9:12:41] Mayor Diodati and Eric Nichol
can both confirm that the NEC
[9:12:44] has been nothing but
permissive and cooperative
[9:12:48] in allowing works in Fireman's Park
[9:12:50] currently underway,
including cement abutments,
[9:12:53] floating docks, a pavilion,
and other improvements.
[9:12:57] Our position is that a
five-acre-park is more than enough
[9:13:01] and that the city can now
proceed to collect cash in lieu
[9:13:05] for the remaining five acres
[9:13:07] and apply that money to
the millions of dollars
[9:13:10] in improvements you have
planned at Fireman's Park
[9:13:13] and at the former landfill site,
[9:13:14] both a very short walk
from this plan area.
[9:13:17] Finally, location of the school.
[9:13:20] Staff's matrix references
the requirements of the DSBN
[9:13:24] and justifying locating
the school in the middle
[9:13:27] of the subdivision and at
collector road intersections.
[9:13:32] We're suggesting that the
school front on Montrose Road
[9:13:35] next to the Redeemer Bible Church,
[9:13:37] as you'll see on Schedule A-8.
[9:13:40] Putting it in the middle
of the subdivision results
[9:13:42] in buses and hundreds of cars
[9:13:44] traveling through the subdivision
[9:13:46] during busy drop off and pickup times.
[9:13:50] We are proposing that the
school front onto Montrose Road,
[9:13:52] which is an arterial road at the corner
[9:13:55] of one of the collector
roads into the subdivision.
[9:13:58] We happen to speak to the
DSBN on Friday and yesterday,
[9:14:02] and they have confirmed the following,
[9:14:04] that they are flexible
regarding the ultimate location
[9:14:08] and size of the school site
[9:14:09] and will be actively engaged
throughout the draft plan
[9:14:12] of subdivision stage to
select their future location.
[9:14:17] In other words, the DSBN does not object
[9:14:20] to our proposed location
for the school site
[9:14:22] as shown on Schedule A-8 at this time.
[9:14:26] We believe the location
fronting onto Montrose Road
[9:14:29] meets the desired criteria of DSBN
[9:14:31] and is consistent with other schools
[9:14:33] that have recently been
developed along arterial roads
[9:14:36] such as McLeod Road, Kalar
Road, and Niagara Street
[9:14:40] in Welland at the former fairground site.
[9:14:44] Finally, locating the school as we propose
[9:14:46] fairly allocates community
uses between landowners,
[9:14:50] which if you accept staff's recommendation
[9:14:53] would result in Club Italia and my client
[9:14:56] having virtually all the
community uses within their lands
[9:15:00] while the other landowners
in the plan do not.
[9:15:04] Quite frankly, that's unfair.
[9:15:06] Everyone should carry
some burden in providing
[9:15:10] community uses within their
lands in a secondary plan.
[9:15:14] In conclusion, we are
requesting that council approve
[9:15:18] by-law 2026-078 and
by-law 2026-079 as revised
[9:15:25] and as I have provided to council
[9:15:27] in a clean format on Friday.
[9:15:30] Mr. Mayor, I'm also
suggesting if it's possible,
[9:15:33] I think just about everyone
left in the room is here
[9:15:37] for the secondary plan, except
maybe two or three people.
[9:15:40] I'm suggesting if it's
possible to move up and lift
[9:15:43] these by-laws from agenda item number 18
[9:15:47] so that my client and the
representatives of Club Italia
[9:15:50] and those others in the
room do not have to wait
[9:15:53] until the end of the meeting for approval
[9:15:55] of the revised by-laws.
[9:15:57] - This is the end of the meeting.
[9:15:59] - Oh yep, you're done. Perfect.
[9:16:01] - We're going straight
to by-laws from here.
[9:16:02] - Excellent. Okay. I
retract the request then.
[9:16:05] - Okay.
- I'd be happy to answer-
[9:16:06] - Is that your thunder,
according to Ms. Gilberti?
[9:16:08] What we just heard? Was that your thunder?
[9:16:10] - I guess that's it.
[9:16:11] That's all I got. I'd be
happy to answer any questions.
[9:16:14] - We got to get your picture.
[9:16:16] All right. One last one.
[9:16:22] - [Council Member] Sorry, I'm nervous.
[9:16:23] - You're nervous. I'm nervous.
[9:16:26] - [Council Member] I'm
in front of royalty.
[9:16:31] Did you want to do a selfie?
[9:16:32] - No, not this time. I'm good. I'm good.
[9:16:36] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[9:16:38] - Okay, thank you, before
you run away, Mr. Vacca.
[9:16:40] Do we have some questions for Mr. Vacca?
[9:16:43] To start we got Councillor Nieuwesteeg,
[9:16:45] and then Councillor Strange.
[9:16:48] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[9:16:49] And I'm not quite sure
if it's to Mr. Vacca,
[9:16:51] but I want to pick up on your park.
[9:16:53] So you're having it five acres.
[9:16:58] I'm going back a couple months ago.
[9:16:59] The council toured, I call
it the Mini Central Park,
[9:17:03] the Firemen's Park over to Mewburn.
[9:17:05] And when we were standing up there,
[9:17:07] Actually, I was looking at the Regency.
[9:17:08] I thought, oh my goodness,
[9:17:09] because we were talking about fields.
[9:17:10] I thought, what a great
location, how the view was,
[9:17:14] you could see this connection.
[9:17:16] We were talking about as councillors,
[9:17:17] like that whole area can
connect so well there.
[9:17:20] However, we don't have that connection.
[9:17:22] So perhaps I don't know,
maybe it's back to Ms. Dolch.
[9:17:26] Could we look at taking
money in lieu of parkland
[9:17:31] and figuring out how to
connect that whole area?
[9:17:34] I know we're dealing with
secondary plan over here
[9:17:36] right now, but, and bring
them over to that area
[9:17:39] because if we have a mini
central park in proximity
[9:17:42] to this whole area, instead
of putting all that money
[9:17:45] into that park area, use
that money to connect people
[9:17:50] over to this other area.
[9:17:53] Just as a suggestion.
[9:17:54] - [Jim] Ms. Dolch?
[9:17:56] - Thank you, Your Worship,
through you to the Councillor.
[9:17:59] And I will have Mr.
Millar stand up as well.
[9:18:02] The parkland that's
proposed here was required
[9:18:05] through the master plan that was done.
[9:18:07] So it requires, a municipal
works did the master planning
[9:18:11] and advised that they
needed a four-hectare park
[9:18:14] in this area.
[9:18:15] This was even before the settlement area
[9:18:17] boundary expansion occurred.
[9:18:18] So they were looking for a
park to serve the neighborhood
[9:18:21] to the south in this area and
they needed a community park.
[9:18:25] So to relocate it to a different location
[9:18:30] I would be concerned with at this point.
[9:18:33] Especially without further consultation
[9:18:36] with municipal works
because they did advise us
[9:18:38] that they wanted the four-hectare
park in this location.
[9:18:41] I don't know if Mr. Millar
wants to add anything else
[9:18:44] 'cause he's been constant
contact with them on this.
[9:18:46] - What would be the rationale
for a four-hectare park?
[9:18:52] - Through the mayor to the Councillor.
[9:18:54] So what would be the
reason is that as Ms. Dolch
[9:18:59] was alluding to there,
even prior to these lands
[9:19:02] having been added to
the urban area boundary,
[9:19:04] so before 2022, 2021,
the parks plan was saying
[9:19:10] that the Northwest
needed a community park.
[9:19:13] And a community park is a larger park.
[9:19:14] It's not a neighborhood
park like the, you know,
[9:19:17] the five acre ones that you,
Mr. Vacca was referring to.
[9:19:21] A community park of a larger scale
[9:19:22] that would have facilities.
[9:19:23] So you'd have the ball diamond.
[9:19:25] You might have the splash
pad, the playground,
[9:19:28] those types of things,
not just an open field.
[9:19:30] And yes, it would have
a parking lot as well.
[9:19:33] But you could make use of the
on-street parking for events.
[9:19:37] So if you had a, you know, soccer weekend
[9:19:39] or something like that happening
[9:19:40] and the parking lot was full,
[9:19:42] you had the room on the curbside.
[9:19:44] But it also doing that
puts the boulevard space
[9:19:48] so you still have the
active transportation.
[9:19:49] So having these benefits
of the community uses
[9:19:52] on the arterial roads is
really actually quite good.
[9:19:55] But as getting back to that question,
[9:19:57] the need for the park
was established in 2021
[9:20:01] for that community.
[9:20:03] And then we've got this
urban area coming in
[9:20:05] and we're putting 6,000 more people,
[9:20:07] 7,000 more people to that area
that to me would underscore.
[9:20:11] Yeah, we're definitely
going to need it now
[9:20:13] because you got six or
7,000 more people on a spot.
[9:20:15] They were already calling for one, so.
[9:20:17] And I think that if you were to speak
[9:20:20] with the municipal
staff, parks department,
[9:20:23] they do not view the
east side of the highway
[9:20:25] the same as the west side of the highway.
[9:20:26] They feel the west side of the highway
[9:20:28] is needing its own community park.
[9:20:30] So that's-
[9:20:31] - And to you, Mr. Millar, back
in 2021, we didn't have this,
[9:20:34] I call it the mini central park.
[9:20:35] Like it is absolutely phenomenal up there.
[9:20:38] And to be able to put
our resources in there
[9:20:41] and make that one spectacular park,
[9:20:43] it was just amazing to see
what we could have there.
[9:20:46] We could have everything you've said
[9:20:48] and more just investing in one thing
[9:20:51] as opposed to money spread over
and then we run out of money
[9:20:54] and don't have money to put
it into something like that.
[9:20:58] I'm just thinking because timing
it like from 2021 till now
[9:21:01] when we have this other massive piece
[9:21:03] maybe there should be other consideration
[9:21:06] and then a connection to that.
[9:21:08] So there's more and more
people could actually enjoy it.
[9:21:10] - One of the things I had thought about,
[9:21:12] was hopefully one day in the
future we can run a trail
[9:21:15] up to the Bruce and get
across the bridge there
[9:21:18] as an alternate to get into-
[9:21:20] - Yeah, that would be great.
[9:21:22] But it's not in my purview, so.
[9:21:26] - Thank you.
[9:21:28] - Our GM of planning is going,
[9:21:31] our acting CAO is going to speak up.
[9:21:33] - Yeah. I was going to say
no, I don't want that job.
[9:21:35] (council members chuckle)
[9:21:37] No, just one other thing I wanted to add.
[9:21:40] Obviously if the park is reduced in size,
[9:21:42] I don't know if I would
absolutely move the park.
[9:21:45] There's still obviously
neighborhood children
[9:21:47] trying to walk to parks
and things like that
[9:21:49] rather than we don't want
children crossing highways
[9:21:52] to get to Fireman's Park.
[9:21:54] But you are going to reduce
the size of the park,
[9:21:56] I would suggest at least
have some level of park
[9:21:59] in this neighborhood on
this side of the road
[9:22:00] because right now they
have to cross the street
[9:22:04] at this point, so.
[9:22:07] - Councillor Nieuwesteeg,
if I can just address
[9:22:09] some of your comments.
[9:22:12] We're not saying don't have a park.
[9:22:13] We're saying five acres
is a very large park
[9:22:17] by any equation, especially
when you have Fireman's Park
[9:22:20] within walking distance.
[9:22:21] And if you run like Mike Strange,
[9:22:23] you're there in two minutes.
[9:22:25] But with all due respect,
[9:22:27] and I was part of a group 20 years ago
[9:22:29] that looked at your lands on
Mewburn next to the landfill.
[9:22:33] And there was a whole master plan designed
[9:22:36] with ball diamonds, soccer fields.
[9:22:40] I think cricket pitch
wasn't in mind at that time,
[9:22:42] but clearly should be in mind right now.
[9:22:45] There's lots of opportunity
for a central park
[9:22:49] and you already have a central park.
[9:22:52] You have money that you can
get through cash in lieu
[9:22:54] on this development
[9:22:56] and use it to do that at Fireman's Park.
[9:22:59] There's lots of areas of
Fireman's Park you can use,
[9:23:01] or you can use the lands at Mewburn
[9:23:03] to do exactly what we just heard.
[9:23:05] Ball diamonds, soccer
fields, cricket pitch,
[9:23:08] whatever you want to do.
[9:23:10] And these developers will
give you the money to do that.
[9:23:14] Having a ball diamond or
soccer field in a subdivision,
[9:23:20] I don't know how that's going to work,
[9:23:21] to be totally honest with you.
[9:23:23] And I played soccer all my life.
[9:23:25] And I played in some
tournaments in Toronto
[9:23:27] where that occurred.
[9:23:29] Balls were hitting houses.
Balls were going across streets.
[9:23:33] You had cars all around the neighborhood.
[9:23:35] It's not something I like.
[9:23:37] And again, the Niagara
Escarpment Commission
[9:23:39] is very permissive when it
comes to park uses like that.
[9:23:43] Very permissive. So.
[9:23:45] - And when you, through Mr. Mayor,
[9:23:46] when you talk, you reference the only park
[9:23:49] that's closest to that size
would be the Mount Carmel Park.
[9:23:51] I lived there for years
and I know Joe's there.
[9:23:55] How many times did we
see people actually using
[9:23:58] that entire park?
[9:24:00] I saw green space most of the time.
[9:24:01] So I'd rather be able to use money
[9:24:04] that it's really a fulsome
[9:24:06] and that everyone can be enjoying
[9:24:07] than just having green
space called a park.
[9:24:10] - Yeah, and that's the
position we're taking
[9:24:12] and that's what resulted
in the revised Schedule A-8
[9:24:16] in front of you.
[9:24:18] - Thank you.
[9:24:20] - Yes. Okay. All right.
Thank you for that.
[9:24:23] Do we have some other
questions of council.
[9:24:24] Oh, Councillor Strange.
[9:24:25] - I just wanted to make a comment.
[9:24:26] I just totally agree with the presenter
[9:24:29] just because especially
along the main road,
[9:24:33] you want a school, you don't want a school
[9:24:35] in the middle of a subdivision.
[9:24:37] We have that problem with
Princess Margaret, you know,
[9:24:41] and then you see around there
you got St. Vincent De Paul,
[9:24:43] you go in, you go out
along Dorchester Road.
[9:24:46] You know, you have
Orchard Park, Mary Ward.
[9:24:49] You know, you just go
in, it's such an easy,
[9:24:53] you don't want them crammed,
[9:24:54] buses coming in the
middle of an intersection.
[9:24:55] I just want to say.
[9:24:58] - And just one final
comment about the school.
[9:25:01] Actually being in a subdivision,
[9:25:03] we've been talking all night about noise
[9:25:05] and residence noise.
[9:25:06] If it's in the middle of
a subdivision, you know,
[9:25:08] we have school buses going in.
[9:25:09] We've got the recess bell
going and the kids outside.
[9:25:12] So if a neighbor next
door that's on shift work,
[9:25:15] that would be very
disturbing if, you know,
[9:25:18] that bell goes off and
the kids are screaming
[9:25:19] and you're trying to sleep.
[9:25:20] So I think you make a good point
[9:25:23] about having it on a collector road.
[9:25:28] - Yes, Councillor Baldinelli.
- Rocky, sorry.
[9:25:30] Can you please go over
why you don't want park
[9:25:35] in that location?
[9:25:36] - [Rocky] No, we're fine with
the park in that location.
[9:25:39] - Like, I mean at 10 acres.
[9:25:40] - But five acres instead of 10.
[9:25:42] Your staff is requesting 10.
[9:25:45] And what I've shown there is five acres,
[9:25:47] which still abuts the
environmental protection area,
[9:25:51] which as you heard is
important from Dr. Bacher
[9:25:53] and Ms. Grandoni.
[9:25:55] We're just making the park
smaller rather than 10 acres.
[9:25:59] We're saying five acres
because just across the way
[9:26:03] you have Fireman's Park.
[9:26:05] And you have a lot of
plans at Fireman's Park
[9:26:08] that you're currently working on, so.
[9:26:10] - I think it's a
completely different park,
[9:26:11] but is that the old Club
Italia soccer field area?
[9:26:17] - Part of it is MVORA's lands
[9:26:19] and part of it would be Club
Italia's lands, correct.
[9:26:22] - Is Club Italia still going to exist?
[9:26:27] - [Audience Member] Absolutely.
[9:26:28] - I don't think Club
Italia's going anywhere. No.
[9:26:31] - No?
- No.
[9:26:32] - So do they have a pitch still?
[9:26:34] - Will they continue to have a pitch?
[9:26:36] - Yes, yeah, my
understanding is Club Italia
[9:26:39] plans on selling a portion of their lands.
[9:26:43] And that will give them the money
[9:26:46] they need to continue to thrive.
[9:26:48] That's my understanding.
[9:26:49] Being a member who went to a meeting
[9:26:51] where that discussion took place
[9:26:52] and that resolution was passed,
that's my understanding.
[9:26:56] - Thank you.
[9:26:58] - So maybe do me a favor one more time.
[9:27:01] Just summarize the two pieces. The park.
[9:27:05] You're saying going from
10 acre to five acre.
[9:27:08] You're suggesting the extra
money is for extra lots.
[9:27:10] Take the money in lieu
and put it into Firemen's,
[9:27:14] or into that park for amenities.
[9:27:16] And then the school, the rationale,
[9:27:18] explain that again for us.
[9:27:20] The school rationale.
[9:27:21] - So right now on the
plan prepared by staff,
[9:27:26] you have the school site
within the plan of subdivision.
[9:27:30] It's not fronting on Montrose.
[9:27:33] So where you have that road
coming in from Montrose,
[9:27:36] which doesn't appear there, I believe.
[9:27:41] Or it does.
[9:27:41] Yeah, where you have the road coming in,
[9:27:43] it's basically abutting the park area
[9:27:46] is where you have a school right now.
[9:27:48] So it's in the middle of a subdivision.
[9:27:51] And the rationale given
by staff was that DSBN
[9:27:57] wanted it at that location
or to meet certain criteria.
[9:28:01] We've spoken at DSBN.
[9:28:03] They said, "No, we can deal
with the location later."
[9:28:06] And we asked them if they
object to having it on Montrose
[9:28:09] and they said, "We don't
object at this time."
[9:28:11] So they're leaving their options open.
[9:28:14] But they didn't say we object to Montrose,
[9:28:17] and they didn't say we must have it
[9:28:18] in the middle of the subdivision
the way staff put it.
[9:28:23] - So maybe can we just get staff?
[9:28:26] I don't know, if we can
get to our planning staff.
[9:28:30] Yeah, Mr. Millar did you
want to weigh in on this?
[9:28:33] Because council, we're going
to have to make a decision now.
[9:28:35] And was there any strong
planning rationale
[9:28:39] for moving the school
inside of the development
[9:28:43] rather than on the arterial
connection of the development?
[9:28:47] Is there any?
[9:28:48] - Proximity, walkability,
puts it right in the middle.
[9:28:51] Everybody can get out of the same row.
[9:28:52] There's a ton of development
on the Kalar Road.
[9:28:56] There's going to be kids in that school
[9:28:57] or in that medium density area.
[9:29:00] They'll have a much shorter
walk to get to the park
[9:29:02] and the school.
[9:29:04] I talked to the school board
also on Friday and Monday.
[9:29:06] So, you know, I'm getting,
[9:29:08] maybe we're getting mixed signals here,
[9:29:10] but their criteria that they use,
[9:29:12] I was checking a lot of boxes on that
[9:29:14] and my discussions with Michelle
was saying that, you know,
[9:29:16] that it is a good location.
[9:29:18] Collector Road is not a stranger to buses.
[9:29:21] And the bus activity would happen.
[9:29:23] And, you know, yes, buses
and people drop off,
[9:29:26] but it's only for a very short period
[9:29:28] at the end of the day,
like every other community.
[9:29:30] And I think if you looked
at a map of the city,
[9:29:32] you look at the old
traditional neighborhoods,
[9:29:35] you're going to see a bunch of schools
[9:29:37] in the middle of the community.
[9:29:38] Walkability, you know, back
then in the '30's, '40's,
[9:29:41] and '50's when they were
siting these up, it was,
[9:29:44] you didn't find them on the outskirts.
[9:29:46] And those schools that
are being built these days
[9:29:50] are happening under, you
know, a period of time where,
[9:29:54] you know, the draft plans are coming in
[9:29:56] and the school boards would
say, "We need a school."
[9:29:58] And then the development
applications would come in
[9:30:00] with a block out at the arterial
road, that's your block.
[9:30:05] The ministry's taken more
oversight over the school boards.
[9:30:08] And as part of that, they're
also giving the school boards
[9:30:11] more say in safety matters.
[9:30:13] So I think at the end of
the day, yes, you know,
[9:30:16] the school boards hasn't
committed either way to,
[9:30:19] you know, one way or another.
[9:30:21] My view was that centralizing this
[9:30:23] was going to put it closer to kids.
[9:30:25] My view was going to be also helping
[9:30:28] to have that established boulevard
[9:30:31] for active transportation.
[9:30:33] You know, separating the
bike lanes from that,
[9:30:35] but all that curb space, you know,
[9:30:37] for events or whatever,
is going to be beneficial.
[9:30:40] You don't necessarily need you know,
[9:30:45] to have a giant parking lot for, you know,
[9:30:48] neighborhood uses, but
when you have a soccer game
[9:30:50] or whatever, I do think that
there's probably soccer fields
[9:30:53] internal in some of these parks
[9:30:54] and some of these internal areas.
[9:30:58] Otherwise, you know, rationale for that,
[9:31:00] that was my rationale.
[9:31:01] Puts it at the corner,
checks a lot of their boxes,
[9:31:03] makes it closer to everybody
[9:31:04] in particular the higher
densities on the west.
[9:31:08] - Okay, I can tell you, I'm
of two schools of thought
[9:31:11] because I know when I
go down Dorchester Road,
[9:31:13] I pass a bunch of schools
[9:31:15] that are right on major arterial roads.
[9:31:16] And the newest DSBN school
opened up on McLeod Road.
[9:31:20] And so is the NCDSB as
well as on McLeod Road.
[9:31:23] And I know other communities,
[9:31:25] every school I've been a part of,
[9:31:26] lately they've been on arterial roads
[9:31:28] more than they used to
be neighborhood schools,
[9:31:30] but our general manager
of planning wants to talk.
[9:31:34] She's got her head going.
[9:31:36] Yeah. Thank you, Your Worship.
[9:31:37] just quickly, and one of the criteria
[9:31:39] that the DSBN advises of is
that they didn't want to be
[9:31:42] close to a highway,
that's another reason why.
[9:31:45] I do know that a lot
of them, like you said,
[9:31:47] are on Ontario roads.
[9:31:48] I don't know if their mindset's changing.
[9:31:51] I appreciate Mr. Vacca may
have talked to them as well.
[9:31:53] So obviously Mr. Millar talked
to them as well on Friday.
[9:31:57] But I do know they had concerns
being close to the highway.
[9:31:59] That's why that was one of the reasons
[9:32:01] we obviously didn't choose there as well.
[9:32:05] You know, and should council
go down this path of changing,
[9:32:08] I would ask that we take
a five minute recess.
[9:32:12] We do have revised
recommendations we can work on,
[9:32:16] so that depending on what
direction you're heading
[9:32:19] just let us know and we
can work through that.
[9:32:22] Obviously there's other
locations perhaps for the school.
[9:32:24] And one other thing I did want to mention
[9:32:26] is that the school is
actually a permitted use
[9:32:30] in the residential area.
[9:32:32] So even though it's shown schematically,
[9:32:35] that Chris has it there
shown that doesn't mean
[9:32:38] that that's going to be the final location
[9:32:40] or the size or anything.
[9:32:42] It's more of a schematic on, you know,
[9:32:45] where we think good land
use planning should occur.
[9:32:48] - Mr. Mayor, if I can just
make one final comment.
[9:32:51] Yes, I agree with Mr. Millar.
[9:32:54] The DSBN has not committed to
my site or the city's site.
[9:33:00] They say we'll deal with it later. Okay?
[9:33:03] - [Chris] $200 mouse.
[9:33:04] - Sorry. Still works.
[9:33:06] - [Chris] Very expensive.
[9:33:09] - But the point I keep
coming back to Your Worship
[9:33:13] and members of council is, you know,
[9:33:16] there are four landowners
within that property
[9:33:18] bound by Kalar, Montrose,
[9:33:22] and then swinging around
Montrose and the Hydro Corridor.
[9:33:25] There are four owners.
[9:33:27] If you put the park, sorry,
if you put the school
[9:33:31] as proposed by staff in the
middle of the subdivision, okay?
[9:33:36] the brunt of the community
uses go to my client.
[9:33:39] He's going to have the whole
school site on his lands.
[9:33:42] So he can't develop it.
He's got to sell it.
[9:33:46] And a good chunk of the park
is on my client's lands.
[9:33:50] And the other chunk of the
park is on Club Italia's lands.
[9:33:53] The other two landowners
get off scot-free.
[9:33:56] And that's not fair.
[9:33:58] I'm sorry, that's not fair
when there's valid arguments
[9:34:00] for having a school on an arterial road,
[9:34:03] because that's where they normally are.
[9:34:05] And when there's valid
reasons for having a park,
[9:34:08] which should be five acres, not 10 acres.
[9:34:11] And if you go to 10 acres
in that site, again,
[9:34:14] it's Club Italia and
my client that suffer.
[9:34:17] They get all the community uses.
[9:34:18] They lose all the developable acreage
[9:34:20] and only recover what
they sell the land for,
[9:34:23] or dedicate it to the city for parks.
[9:34:27] Sorry, that's not fair
in this circumstance.
[9:34:31] - Okay. All right. So
yes, Councillor Kerrio.
[9:34:35] - Quick question.
[9:34:36] Who pays for the land that
we give to the school board
[9:34:39] for the school board?
[9:34:41] Who covers the cost of that land?
[9:34:43] - [Jim] Does the school board pay?
[9:34:44] - [Rocky] School board pays.
[9:34:45] - The school board pays?
[9:34:46] - Appraised value, which-
[9:34:47] - They pay the appraised
value for that, okay.
[9:34:50] - Yeah, land's a lot more
valuable as developable,
[9:34:54] as opposed to lands you sell
[9:34:56] to the school for appraised value.
[9:34:58] - So if I can ask another question,
[9:35:00] so I know it suggested that the
school in the park be along,
[9:35:06] in this case, the highway.
[9:35:09] - The park remains-
- Or where is it?
[9:35:11] - The park is the CP,
- Oh, church, I'm sorry.
[9:35:13] - Yeah, the church.
- Okay.
[9:35:14] - Yeah, we're talking about
institutional corridor,
[9:35:16] having the church and school together.
[9:35:19] - And the school, it's funny,
[9:35:20] the church just had a big blow up
[9:35:22] castle thing the other day.
[9:35:24] I noticed that a big barbecue out there
[9:35:25] on the lawn and whatnot.
[9:35:27] The other thing I noticed too,
[9:35:28] with schools I could see in the past,
[9:35:29] not want to have the noise of a highway.
[9:35:32] But today they're all air conditioned.
[9:35:33] All the new schools with triple-pane.
[9:35:35] Like, I mean, it's not like it used to be.
[9:35:37] I've been in a number of new
businesses along the highway.
[9:35:39] You can't even hear the highway going by.
[9:35:41] You can't hear the transport trucks.
[9:35:42] So staff have asked us if
we could take a short recess
[9:35:46] where they can maybe, based on the input
[9:35:48] and they've gauged the input from council,
[9:35:50] maybe they can come back with some revised
[9:35:54] worded recommendations.
[9:35:56] So if council's good with
that, maybe we can take a five,
[9:36:01] 10 minute recess till staff come back.
[9:36:03] And then you'll have a chance to address
[9:36:05] those updated comments.
[9:36:07] Yes, Councillor Kerrio?
[9:36:08] - Another thing I was going to say,
[9:36:09] we've had both sides given to us.
[9:36:11] Really it's going to
be a council decision.
[9:36:12] - It is, I think staff just wanted.
[9:36:15] Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah.
[9:36:18] - And perhaps I can just elaborate.
[9:36:19] Our recommendations
technically won't change,
[9:36:21] but we want to make sure
those recommendations
[9:36:24] that you pass cover all the boxes.
[9:36:27] But if you let us know which
direction you want to head,
[9:36:29] if you're agreeing with Mr.
Vacca's direction collectively,
[9:36:33] then if we can take a five minute recess
[9:36:34] before you make the final decision
[9:36:36] with those recommendations that
you would put forward then.
[9:36:40] That's all, just to make
sure that we cover all the.
[9:36:42] - Yeah, Mr. Mayor,
before you recess, again,
[9:36:44] all we're asking is that the
two by-laws on your agenda
[9:36:49] be passed in the form and
content I sent on Friday,
[9:36:53] the clean versions.
[9:36:55] The only difference between
those versions and the ones
[9:36:57] that staff has prepared is Schedule 8,
[9:37:01] and some language within the
by-laws that deal with the park
[9:37:06] because your language said
had to be four hectares.
[9:37:09] We removed that so there's
no mandatory 10 acres.
[9:37:13] So very minor changes.
[9:37:15] But quite frankly, if
council is prepared to do so,
[9:37:19] all you need to do is to approve
the clean amended by-laws
[9:37:23] I sent through on Friday,
which has revised Schedule A-8,
[9:37:27] a revised schedule on the zoning by-law,
[9:37:30] and some minor word changes
to reflect those changes
[9:37:33] in the by-laws, that's all it is.
[9:37:35] - Okay. Well, why don't we do this then?
[9:37:37] Then we'll take a brief recess.
[9:37:39] Give staff a chance to put this together
[9:37:41] and we'll bring everybody back.
[9:37:42] So why don't we say we'll
come back in 10 minutes.
[9:37:45] Pee break time.
[10:07:21] - [Assistant] Part three.
[10:07:23] All right everyone, welcome back.
[10:07:24] We just had a recess just to
discuss some of the matters
[10:07:28] that we were just
discussing and allow staff
[10:07:31] some time to put together
an actual recommendation.
[10:07:35] So I guess our next step, I'm
going to go back to our staff
[10:07:39] and see if we can't have them present
[10:07:41] what you've put together
for us to consider.
[10:07:47] - Thank you, Your Worship.
[10:07:49] So obviously our recommendation
as planning staff stands.
[10:07:53] We've done a lot of analysis
on our planning recommendation,
[10:07:57] so it does stand.
[10:07:58] But should council wish to
modify based on Schedule A-8
[10:08:02] that was presented by
Mr. Vacca this evening,
[10:08:05] I can read out a revised
recommendation if you do that.
[10:08:11] And like I said, I just want to be clear
[10:08:13] to our planning staff because
we have no planning rationale
[10:08:16] for A-8 that's been
presented here tonight.
[10:08:18] So just so you're aware,
[10:08:21] but that we have this recommendation.
[10:08:25] So should council choose
to follow Schedule A-8
[10:08:28] as presented by Mr. Vacca,
[10:08:30] the recommendation would read as follows:
[10:08:33] that council directs staff
to make modifications, sorry,
[10:08:36] to the proposed official plan amendment
[10:08:38] for Northwest secondary plan policies
[10:08:41] and schedules to incorporate
the relocation of the school
[10:08:44] and reduction of the parkland
pursuant to Schedule A-8
[10:08:47] presented in the verbal
presentation of Rocky Vacca,
[10:08:51] Sullivan Mahoney on behalf
of MVORA Developments, Inc.
[10:08:56] Dated August 11th, 2026.
[10:08:59] And further, that council direct staff
[10:09:01] to make the modification of the proposed
[10:09:02] zoning by-law amendment
[10:09:03] for the Northwest Secondary
Plan policies and schedules
[10:09:09] to incorporate the
relocation of the school
[10:09:11] and reduction of the parkland
pursuant to Schedule A-8
[10:09:14] presented in the verbal
presentation of Rocky Vacca,
[10:09:17] Sullivan Mahoney on behalf
of MVORA Developments Inc.
[10:09:20] Dated August 11th, 2026.
[10:09:23] And further, the council
directs staff to bring forward
[10:09:25] the implementing by-laws for
the Northwest Secondary Plan
[10:09:28] at a further delegated meeting
as modified and approved
[10:09:31] by council at its August 11th meeting
[10:09:34] with notice of decision
issued immediately thereafter.
[10:09:38] - Yep. So are we comfortable with this?
[10:09:41] Did we have any just before we...
[10:09:43] So in fairness to the applicant,
[10:09:45] you heard our general manager of planning.
[10:09:50] And any comment or any insight
before we move forward?
[10:09:59] - [Rocky] Well, the
only concern I have is.
[10:10:02] - [Council Member] Turn
on the microphone, please.
[10:10:04] - Mr. Mayor, the only
concern I have is I heard
[10:10:09] revising Schedule A-8 as presented,
[10:10:12] revising the two by-laws as presented.
[10:10:16] I just want to be sure that
the text in the by-laws
[10:10:19] as presented in those clean by-laws.
[10:10:20] - It's not going to be that.
[10:10:22] It's going to be staff written by-laws.
[10:10:24] So the main things that we're addressing,
[10:10:25] we're not addressing the
density and the other matters.
[10:10:28] - No, no.
[10:10:28] - It's going to be around the park.
[10:10:30] We're going to go to half.
[10:10:31] - Okay.
[10:10:32] - And the school, we're going
to go to the arterial roadway.
[10:10:34] - Okay.
[10:10:35] - So that's the main things, right?
[10:10:36] And then we're going to let
staff work on the, you know,
[10:10:39] the exact particulars and
of the actual by-law itself
[10:10:42] for our next meeting, okaY?
[10:10:43] But that's we've come to.
[10:10:45] Is that right Ms. Dolch?
[10:10:47] - That's correct, but it will
be at a delegated meeting,
[10:10:50] which would be convened internally,
[10:10:54] just because you don't
have a subsequent meeting.
[10:10:57] - Council meeting.
[10:10:58] - [Rocky] Yeah. That was my next question.
[10:10:58] When do we expect that
delegated meeting and approval?
[10:11:04] - She just flew home this morning.
[10:11:05] - [Rocky] Oh, I get it.
[10:11:06] - She doesn't know where she is.
[10:11:07] - [Rocky] I'm not saying tomorrow,
[10:11:08] but I just don't want it
to be December, that's all.
[10:11:10] - I'll have to get back to you on that.
[10:11:13] I have to see when we get
those by-laws modified.
[10:11:17] But obviously as soon as possible,
[10:11:18] we will get them on the
next delegated meeting
[10:11:20] or the next or subsequent
delegated meeting agenda
[10:11:24] once Mr. Millar has a chance
to modify the by-laws.
[10:11:26] - [Rocky] Okay.
[10:11:28] - Okay. Ms. Gilberti, would you like to?
[10:11:30] - I know we're law partners.
[10:11:32] - Yes. Well, he's the-
[10:11:33] - And we see everything eye to eye
[10:11:36] as what was presented by
Mr. Vacca, absolutely.
[10:11:42] Club Italia needs to be part of whatever
[10:11:44] continued delegated discussions
and meetings are held
[10:11:48] and has to be satisfactory
also to the club.
[10:11:52] For example, I don't
want to see five acres
[10:11:55] of parkland on club property.
[10:11:58] - Yeah, well, we wouldn't
want to do that either,
[10:12:00] but they'll be part of
those delegated meetings.
[10:12:03] - Thank you, Your Worship.
[10:12:04] So the delegated meetings would
just be to pass the by-laws
[10:12:07] in accordance with the
decisions you make this evening.
[10:12:09] So we're not, you know, in
terms of the parkland here
[10:12:13] and the school, those are
the changes we'll make
[10:12:15] to the by-law and that is it.
[10:12:17] And so it's based on your
direction here this evening
[10:12:20] and we will modify the by-laws in that way
[10:12:23] and pass based on your
recommendations because again,
[10:12:26] we would have no authority
to pass a by-law otherwise.
[10:12:31] - Good?
- Good.
[10:12:33] - Okay. So you're moving it? Okay.
[10:12:35] Moved by Councillor Strange,
seconded by Councillor Kerrio.
[10:12:38] Is there any further discussion?
[10:12:40] Okay, seeing none, we'll call
the vote. All those in favor.
[10:12:43] Okay. So that is approved.
[10:12:45] Thank you everybody for your time.
[10:12:47] And we're not finished
working on our Shady Oaks bits
[10:12:51] there either, but we're
just going to bring
[10:12:52] the rest of the council back in
[10:12:54] and then we're going to do our by-laws.
[10:12:58] And then we're concluded. This
meeting's almost concluded.
[10:13:01] It'll be done in about a minute.
[10:13:05] (council members chattering)
[10:13:08] Okay, yeah, sure.
[10:13:10] (council members chattering)
[10:13:17] - Terry, did you get that
mail? Did you get your mail?
[10:13:20] Your package?
[10:13:22] (Jim laughs)
[10:13:23] - [Audience Member] How are you?
[10:13:24] - [Council Member] Good, good to see You.
[10:13:27] (council members chattering)
[10:13:29] - [Council Member] Thank you guys.
[10:13:31] Thanks, Bency. Good night.
[10:13:32] - Why is Joe so tanned, Andrew?
[10:13:35] - Buonasera
[10:13:36] - Why is he so tanned? Bonasera, huh?
[10:13:39] (audience member speaks faintly)
[10:13:40] Exactly. You know the guys who work.
[10:13:42] They don't have a tan.
[10:13:44] (council members chattering)
[10:13:48] All right, thanks, Natalia.
Thanks, Felix. Ciao.
[10:13:53] Thanks, Rox. See you, Mark. See you, Fred.
[10:14:05] Is he good with that?
Good. Okay, great. Great.
[10:14:12] All right. So we've got
everybody gathered again.
[10:14:16] So for the rest of council,
[10:14:18] we approved modified recommendations
[10:14:21] that staff helped us put together.
[10:14:23] And we're now at the by-laws.
[10:14:26] Also, we do have some concerns
[10:14:28] that we're going to follow
up on with Shady Oaks,
[10:14:30] but you guys weren't
here, but these residents,
[10:14:33] they're residents of Shady
Oaks who were not notified
[10:14:37] what was happening by the landlord.
[10:14:40] So somebody dropped the ball
and we're going to follow up
[10:14:42] and find out what's going
on there for these folks.
[10:14:45] So we are now at the by-laws, Mr. Clerk.
[10:14:49] - Yeah, so just so everyone's aware
[10:14:51] the by-laws will now read
2026-070 through to 2026-076.
[10:15:01] There are four by-laws now
that will come off the agenda,
[10:15:04] and then we'll also
approve 82 through to 99.
[10:15:08] So it's just 70 to 76 and
then 82 through to 99.
[10:15:15] - Okay.
[10:15:17] - Your worship, I would move
first, second, and third,
[10:15:19] but I wanted to add to
the original conflict
[10:15:22] on Northwest secondary plan.
[10:15:24] There's two by-laws as well.
[10:15:26] Did those ones come off
or do I add them on?
[10:15:29] - They came off.
[10:15:30] - They came off. Okay.
Then I'll leave it alone.
[10:15:32] - You're moving the by-laws?
[10:15:33] - First, second and third
reading Your Worship.
[10:15:37] - Okay, thank you. Motion
by Councillor Pietrangelo,
[10:15:38] seconded by Councillor Kerrio
[10:15:41] that the by-laws be given a first, second,
[10:15:42] and third reading, Councillor Lococo.
[10:15:45] - Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Conflict on 078 and 079.
[10:15:50] That's this one, the northwest.
[10:15:52] And then 082 and 083, Kitchener Street.
[10:15:56] I was opposed to the development.
[10:15:58] - But I think those ones got removed.
[10:16:00] - Yeah, they were removed.
[10:16:01] - That's what he just said.
[10:16:01] - Otherwise, I was going to
declare the same conflict.
[10:16:02] - Yeah, but that's okay.
[10:16:04] - They got removed.
[10:16:05] - Okay, we'll call the vote.
[10:16:06] All those in favor.
Motion for adjournment.
[10:16:08] Councillor Kerrio.
Councillors. Pietrangelo.
[10:16:14] - And they change, is
there's still a chance?
[10:16:16] - What? No, give it a second.
[10:16:19] You're going to second
motion for adjournment?
[10:16:20] - Sure.
[10:16:21] - Okay. All those in favor?
[10:16:23] All right, we're adjourned,
everybody. Thank you.
[10:16:24] It's been a great term.
Thank you, everybody.
[10:16:27] You're welcome, yeah.
[10:16:28] Thank you.
[10:16:29] (council members applaud)
[10:16:30] And thank you to our
loyal gallery. Thank you.