1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:26,920 We're starting a little early. All right, well, welcome to our work session dated June 8th, 2026, 530, and I have to tell you what, roll call, I have to tell you, you don't need to roll call for this. We're all here. We're all here. We're all here. We're here to talk about, we're talking with Rum River about building inspections, permits, fees, et cetera. Come up, Andy. 2 00:00:29,780 --> 00:00:30,320 Thank you. 3 00:00:31,300 --> 00:01:00,300 Mayor and council so thank you for the opportunity to go through this because we've actually had several iterations of this we had the proposal itself the line by line breakdown then a summary and now this we're able to provide it is a summary of the summary but it also gets a lot more detailed in the percentages as far as the adjustments whether they be up or down so I like the way this information was presented to you in writing we looked at it again just before we came to the meeting here and I believe it answers all the questions if there's 4 00:01:00,300 --> 00:01:03,920 Any questions in depth in further than that? That's why we're here. 5 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:09,700 Anything to start 6 00:01:09,700 --> 00:01:10,460 us off with? 7 00:01:13,430 --> 00:01:22,440 I guess the biggest question that I had was about permit fees and I mean 8 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:28,280 what's even required if they're all required by statute or if there's some on here that 9 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,980 are still recommendations. Thank you for the question. We did identify that in an orange 10 00:01:32,980 --> 00:01:34,080 color, which was optional. 11 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:41,660 So there's actually three items on the agenda or on the fee schedule that are optional, 12 00:01:41,660 --> 00:01:45,840 if you will, they're related to the commercial temp heating. 13 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,340 What that is is when you have a propane source as temporary heat for a commercial 14 00:01:50,340 --> 00:01:55,340 structure, that there is a permitting process that's optional, some would say recommended. 15 00:01:55,660 --> 00:02:00,460 Whereas the protection of that LP tank would be identified or would be protected 16 00:02:00,460 --> 00:02:05,140 by bollards or concrete blocks so that nobody would run into it, as well as the gas lines 17 00:02:05,140 --> 00:02:06,920 themselves that run to the temporary heaters. 18 00:02:07,380 --> 00:02:11,800 In addition to that, there would be verification of the combustion air and makeup air so 19 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,920 that the space that underheat and cover is called, that that area is not starved of oxygen. 20 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:22,960 So that's being done through what a commercial mechanical, temporary mechanical permit. 21 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:23,920 That is optional. 22 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,460 That is in there, if the council so chooses to include that, we would administer that accordingly. 23 00:02:28,460 --> 00:02:34,320 if not, then that would be excluded. And then there's also, excuse me, the conversation 24 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,280 that we had over the moved in structures, the mileage, and I would propose that we just 25 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,560 do away with that, that's more confusing than it needed to be. And in truth, those structure 26 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,840 moving permits comes up very, very infrequently. And if they do come up, they're not that far 27 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,900 away. So I'd rather not confuse that issue any further. And then also the septic abandonment. 28 00:02:52,220 --> 00:02:57,660 So under MPCA rules, when you abandon a septic system, there's a requirement to go through 29 00:02:58,860 --> 00:03:01,580 There's a form to be filled out and an inspected to be done. 30 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,480 That's not a mandated process or a mandated permit. 31 00:03:04,780 --> 00:03:09,560 It is a mandated process and form, but that is a little bit more discretionary. 32 00:03:09,740 --> 00:03:13,980 In the sense that if you wanted to waive that fee, you would have that option as well. 33 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:18,580 So those are the three that are identified in orange as far as being optional or discretionary. 34 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:19,340 Perfect. 35 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:20,460 Thank you. 36 00:03:20,900 --> 00:03:21,320 You're welcome. 37 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:22,480 Thank you for the question. 38 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:23,840 Any job? 39 00:03:24,620 --> 00:03:32,100 Well, I appreciate all the hard work you put into it is definitely detailed and I do appreciate the summary, I appreciate that. 40 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:43,660 What I don't like is the increases, of course, I don't think this is my personal opinion today is the right time to do that. 41 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:49,400 The rest of it is great, but the increases I'm not thrilled about. 42 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:50,640 So, and either are we? 43 00:03:51,000 --> 00:04:05,160 I get it, I just know that today with the ever increasing cost of everything other than air, that I don't know if the constituents would be real thrilled about seeing more increases. 44 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,980 If I might, thankfully, thank you for pointing that out. 45 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:16,080 We also are experiencing the increases in food and fuel, taxes, insurance and state mandates as in as every small business, so I appreciate that point. 46 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,900 Thankfully, when you look through the percentages, they are very modest in the percentages. 47 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,420 And in fact, there's more neutral and decreases than increases. 48 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:29,480 That's where Kerry and I and with Roxanne's L2, we're able to go through and combine those permit fees, for example. 49 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:36,120 Homeowners that are doing their own basement finishes, they have the plumbing and mechanical fees folded into those. 50 00:04:36,340 --> 00:04:38,500 That's a saving of $250 per project. 51 00:04:38,900 --> 00:04:43,360 That is due to our coordination with the applicant to make sure that those things all happen at the same time. 52 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:48,140 We've also established maximum fees on accessory buildings, decks, and basement finishes. 53 00:04:48,580 --> 00:04:53,560 There's nobody else in the state that does that, so I'm really happy and pleased to the point that we've been able to do that. 54 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:59,940 So we do find every way possible mayor and council that we can hold fees as they are, there are going to be- 55 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:05,800 I'm going to be summed that half to go up just due to the nature of the process, and I feel very comfortable with the percentages as they are. 56 00:05:10,460 --> 00:05:16,440 No, I can't help but think I have to be looking at it wrong, just one of the ones. 57 00:05:17,180 --> 00:05:21,080 And like you said, I've been looking at a lot of them and it's small dollars, you're 58 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:26,260 talking $13 increase from what it was, and I'm not worried about those, but the one I'm 59 00:05:26,260 --> 00:05:31,200 looking at, you'll know right away, but it says non-residential and multi-family plumbing 60 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:40,100 permit and plan reviews calculated for 2025 was 2351, the new change would be 4,797. 61 00:05:40,500 --> 00:05:47,060 That's a lot of swallow, $2,000 for the same thing we're doing last year and it's $2,000 more this year. 62 00:05:47,900 --> 00:05:52,720 Understood. Now remember those are due to the state changes in their fee structure and calculation 63 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,360 that used to go by fixture units and now goes by valuation. 64 00:05:59,650 --> 00:06:02,550 So if commercial applicant went to the state 65 00:06:02,550 --> 00:06:05,130 to get a commercial plumbing permit, that's what they pay. 66 00:06:05,570 --> 00:06:09,430 So the State realizes, too, is that they were behind many, many years. 67 00:06:09,610 --> 00:06:11,990 They hadn't updated their fees in many, many years. 68 00:06:12,330 --> 00:06:16,190 So that's due to the increase in the realization at the State Labor and Industry, 69 00:06:16,550 --> 00:06:19,470 that their fees were woefully inadequate for a number of years. 70 00:06:19,830 --> 00:06:22,450 But we wouldn't need to adopt that if we didn't want to, right? 71 00:06:24,010 --> 00:06:25,570 Then how would it be paid for? 72 00:06:26,590 --> 00:06:27,690 Wouldn't it just stay the same? 73 00:06:29,700 --> 00:06:31,180 So then how would that be paid for? 74 00:06:31,180 --> 00:06:37,040 I guess how would the inspections happen and how would the inspection inspector be compensated? 75 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,960 So you're saying last year what you weren't compensated? 76 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,700 We were, but not to the level that we should have, because as we agreed, we followed the state 77 00:06:44,700 --> 00:06:46,020 structure of the state fees. 78 00:06:46,980 --> 00:06:51,320 So if Mayor and County, if you would like, we can go back to the state handling those fees. 79 00:06:51,420 --> 00:06:52,040 That's fine with me. 80 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:53,120 That's fine with us. 81 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:58,500 We can revert back to the state handling the plumbing permits, if that's what you would so choose. 82 00:06:58,500 --> 00:07:02,880 But then there's then those fees would go up and up we don't have any control over those fees 83 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:07,900 That's one of the things unfortunately that we don't have any control over is what the state charges for their permits 84 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:13,940 And since we're taking on the same responsibility as the state we're asking to be compensated the same 85 00:07:16,500 --> 00:07:18,180 The hardest part for me is that 86 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:20,640 if 87 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,920 Somebody doing that inspection last year was going to be going belly up from charging 2,300 88 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:40,580 They wouldn't be in business anymore, so I know that somebody was able to make a living off of $2,300, but now to go to $4,700 for the sake of because the state mandates it. 89 00:07:41,100 --> 00:07:46,940 You know, it's different like you come and you say, hey, my operating expenses went up 45%, and I need to cover this, this, and this. 90 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:53,760 It's hard to explain to anyone, hey, it's going up because the state mandates it. 91 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,240 And that's the only answer I have for him is the state mandates it, but I know that's 92 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:57,620 a lot of things. 93 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,940 My car tabs are the same way and everything else, but it's, it's like, when does it stop? 94 00:08:02,180 --> 00:08:07,000 The fixtures, I remember you used to be able to go out and buy a sink fixture for $150. 95 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:08,360 Now they're $500. 96 00:08:08,860 --> 00:08:13,180 Well, no wonder why the evaluation fee's going up because everything is doubled and tripled. 97 00:08:14,060 --> 00:08:20,400 But does that mean the fee to inspect that same faucet because it's $500 now takes any more 98 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,260 time and effort than it did when it was at $250? 99 00:08:22,260 --> 00:08:30,800 That's where I struggle, really hard, because I understand when operating costs go up, but because the appliance went up, 100 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,620 shouldn't make it harder to go out and inspect it, so... 101 00:08:34,620 --> 00:08:37,640 And it's not necessarily that. Look at what it takes to do those inspections. 102 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,540 You need a master plumber's license in order to have the delegation agreement, whether you work for the state of Minnesota, 103 00:08:42,540 --> 00:08:47,320 or you work with rumour for consultants. Either way, you need to have that state master plumber's license. 104 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,380 You go through the testing process, you go through the continuing education process, 105 00:08:51,380 --> 00:09:01,640 So the fees to hourly inspect a roof are drastically different than that to inspect a do the plan review and the inspection for a commercial plumbing project. 106 00:09:03,300 --> 00:09:09,760 So thankfully to your point council is that councilmembers is that the projects last year. 107 00:09:09,820 --> 00:09:13,000 Yeah, they were underfunded absolutely, but thankfully no growth. 108 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,540 There were very few in part between and we were able to absorb that cost. 109 00:09:18,780 --> 00:09:21,440 So that's one of those that we don't have any control. 110 00:09:22,580 --> 00:09:28,760 So you don't have control over the amount like you don't have to search with the state. 111 00:09:29,580 --> 00:09:30,480 So just do you? 112 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:31,360 That's just the choice. 113 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,460 Again, the fees are up to the council. 114 00:09:35,220 --> 00:09:41,180 But I would say that if you don't necessarily agree with that increase, then I would say 115 00:09:41,180 --> 00:09:44,220 then let's go back to the state because that's the way things were used to be. 116 00:09:44,220 --> 00:09:47,920 We are trying to be helpful to the few commercial projects that the city has, 117 00:09:48,020 --> 00:09:51,260 and understandable is that we are trying to be helpful as well, 118 00:09:51,580 --> 00:09:53,320 and we agreed to follow their fees at that time. 119 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,600 Now, their fees had changed, so if a project goes to the state, 120 00:09:56,940 --> 00:09:58,540 those are the fees that would be paid to the state, 121 00:09:58,940 --> 00:09:59,860 and we're simply asking 122 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:29,860 for the same consideration. I'll go ahead. No, I was just going to finish. And I did kind of forget, not to say you should stick it to the businesses, but I did kind of forget it's non residential, meaning this isn't for the person with the plumbing in our house. This is for the other. So, I mean, yeah, no, I just saw it. Not that I like it any better, but it's a little better because we don't have as much business out here. And that's the unfortunate part about this is that we're in front of councils to explain this. The State Department of Labor and Industry 123 00:10:29,860 --> 00:10:33,420 We made this decision to not change their fees for many, many years. 124 00:10:33,780 --> 00:10:37,580 All of a sudden, they did, and we're the ones out, you know, taking the, taking the brunt of the land. 125 00:10:37,580 --> 00:10:38,340 Taking the heat for it. 126 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:38,560 We are. 127 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,480 And that's unfortunate, but that is what it is. 128 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,440 And we're having this conversation with councils across the state. 129 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,480 We represent a number of cities across the state. 130 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,220 And this is something that we're having to communicate with everybody. 131 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,640 And if there's any disappointment in that, I'd love to give you the, the name of the person 132 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:54,420 that D.L. I had a call. 133 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:54,900 Seriously. 134 00:10:55,420 --> 00:10:59,340 Because it was their decision to not update those fees, and I'd forget how many years. 135 00:10:59,340 --> 00:11:04,240 I don't like to guess on something like this, but it was a number of years that they did not change their fees 136 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:09,420 And that was up to them now that they did they upped them so drastically and so quickly 137 00:11:10,140 --> 00:11:14,720 That's why we're having this conversation if however they had incrementally increased them over the years 138 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:16,980 We wouldn't have this kind of ice cream headache rate. No 139 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:22,800 anybody 140 00:11:23,700 --> 00:11:24,100 Yeah 141 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:33,920 I'm concerned about the fee increases just like John I mean that one in particular are there any others with everything 142 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,520 I mean, it's not even just this, everything in the whole community out there. 143 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,000 Every place is raising, raising, raising, in some place it's got to stop. 144 00:11:42,820 --> 00:11:47,560 And so I think if we can control some of this stuff, just doing our little part to save 145 00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:48,140 the tax period. 146 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,560 And we have, again, we have controlled the fees that we can. 147 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:53,060 You can see a number of these decreases, 148 00:11:57,450 --> 00:11:59,430 a number of these projects have decreased. 149 00:11:59,610 --> 00:12:04,230 Please also look at those, where we've been able to consolidate fees and decrease fees. 150 00:12:04,690 --> 00:12:07,350 Yes, there are a couple of increases, but that was unavoidable. 151 00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:13,900 I lost my train of thought, no, I can't remember where I was going with it. 152 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:19,700 You know, I have to come back to you, Andy, if I can remember it on that one. 153 00:12:21,020 --> 00:12:22,620 But I do have a couple other questions. 154 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:32,880 You charge now for replacing a, or a permit as a charge for replacing a water softener in 155 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:33,800 a person's house, right? 156 00:12:34,180 --> 00:12:34,300 Correct. 157 00:12:34,300 --> 00:12:44,360 Was that approved last time on the fee schedule or when was that approved because I just heard about that water conditioning systems have been a requirement of the state building code as far as I as long as I remember. 158 00:12:44,940 --> 00:12:48,080 So water conditioning, water softener, is that what you're referring to? 159 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:52,960 Yes, for replacing a water softener, it's a new fee, right? 160 00:12:53,860 --> 00:12:57,760 I don't recall if that's a new fee or if that's vaccine fee. 161 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,340 Well, and the reason I ask is a set fee for plumbing. 162 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:02,440 What's that? 163 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:03,960 It's a set fee for plumbing. 164 00:13:04,100 --> 00:13:07,800 So whether it be a water heater or a water softener or plumbing in conjunction 165 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:12,520 with a bathroom remodel or a house addition, it's what's called a set fee. 166 00:13:12,580 --> 00:13:13,520 And I believe that's 125. 167 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:15,760 And I don't know that that fee had changed. 168 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:17,980 No, that fee had stayed the same. 169 00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:20,160 So what's the fee yet? 170 00:13:21,380 --> 00:13:21,740 125. 171 00:13:28,420 --> 00:13:29,060 So that hasn't. 172 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:29,600 That was okay. 173 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,640 And the reason I was asking takes a long time to get my question out here. 174 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:38,620 I was talking to a guy that works at Culligan and they just started charging for it about 175 00:13:38,620 --> 00:13:44,020 a month. He lives in Oak Grove here and he thought it was a brand new fee that was scheduled 176 00:13:44,020 --> 00:13:49,720 and stuff. 4715 Minnesota chapter 4715 of the plumbing code requires permits for water 177 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,880 conditioning systems. And every city that I've been a part of has followed suit with that. 178 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,940 So if he's just now aware of it, that's unfortunate. In Ramsey, you say? No, in Oak Grove. 179 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,160 Well, that's been in our feast, good for all of us. 180 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:02,380 Well, he was talking about several of the other things. 181 00:14:02,380 --> 00:14:03,840 He's been chasing them out without permits, 182 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,040 and maybe that's another conversation. 183 00:14:05,180 --> 00:14:06,960 I don't know if Colligan really does that and stuff, 184 00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:08,680 but they need permits and stuff, you know. 185 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,600 He had a list of what the permit fee was 186 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,080 for all the different cities and stuff, 187 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:13,680 and they're not all the same either. 188 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:15,160 That's unfortunate, right? 189 00:14:15,460 --> 00:14:16,460 Well, we're one of the higher ones, 190 00:14:16,940 --> 00:14:18,000 so it is unfortunate. 191 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,840 Well, if other cities decide to subsidize 192 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,120 their permitting, then they can do that. 193 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,060 Well, anyway, I had to ask about that, 194 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,120 because when he told me that, he lives not too far from me 195 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,480 and he works a call again and said, hey, you guys got a new fee there instead. 196 00:14:33,020 --> 00:14:34,420 It's not a new fee. 197 00:14:34,540 --> 00:14:36,240 So if you can inform him of that, that would be great. 198 00:14:36,580 --> 00:14:38,820 There was a new fee to the workers anyway, apparently. 199 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:40,900 You may have just discovered it, but it's not a new fee. 200 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:48,360 It was in last year's fee schedule. 201 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,220 Okay, and that's what I was trying to get out of originally. 202 00:14:50,580 --> 00:14:50,700 Right. 203 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,100 If that was from back then, I would just pop it up. 204 00:14:53,980 --> 00:14:57,160 And then the $250 for doing soil boring testing. 205 00:14:58,780 --> 00:14:59,880 You still want to do the same. 206 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:49,260 Thank you for that point, because that was not included in here. We just pulled it up. At least on last time we were in front of you. 207 00:15:54,070 --> 00:16:16,770 That's it for now unless I think about what I was asking originally and I can't remember what it was. Well, it are up to me if you do a couple of questions for Andy. I just want to make sure I understand whether I agree or disagree. I just want to make sure that I understand this whole plumbing feed cold thing that we were just doing. I'm sure if any of us up here are a little confused by it. 208 00:16:16,770 --> 00:16:19,090 There's probably somebody who's maybe watching at home 209 00:16:19,090 --> 00:16:20,650 that is wondering the same thing. 210 00:16:22,330 --> 00:16:24,490 So, I just wanna make sure I understand. 211 00:16:24,750 --> 00:16:26,510 You're saying that's the state fees 212 00:16:26,510 --> 00:16:28,410 and this is for like the commercial plumbing 213 00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:31,150 that council member trade while I brought up. 214 00:16:31,810 --> 00:16:36,390 So, that's a fee that the state sets 215 00:16:36,810 --> 00:16:39,250 but does that have to be adopted? 216 00:16:39,470 --> 00:16:42,250 Could we just say we're not gonna charge that much 217 00:16:42,250 --> 00:16:44,930 which would then give you the option to either, 218 00:16:45,510 --> 00:16:51,210 We'll do it for that price, or I'm not going to do it anymore, or are you saying that's what it has to be? 219 00:16:52,030 --> 00:16:58,090 I'm saying that's what the state charges for them providing that service, and that's what we would like to charge for us providing the same service. 220 00:16:58,630 --> 00:17:02,790 If you would like to counsel, if you would like to say no, we're going to change that fee to $5. 221 00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:05,750 Andy Rum River, would you do this for $5? 222 00:17:05,890 --> 00:17:06,510 I'll say no. 223 00:17:06,770 --> 00:17:14,590 I said then we can go back to the state, go back to the old way, we can wait for them to do their plan review when they get to it, and then you would be subject to those fees. 224 00:17:14,590 --> 00:17:15,270 which are the same. 225 00:17:15,730 --> 00:17:16,810 I'm not asking for anything more. 226 00:17:17,050 --> 00:17:18,790 I just wanted to make sure that I was understanding. 227 00:17:18,950 --> 00:17:19,610 No, that is correct. 228 00:17:19,970 --> 00:17:23,770 We could charge less, but you mean you willing to do the work? 229 00:17:23,870 --> 00:17:24,810 That is exactly correct. 230 00:17:26,350 --> 00:17:26,710 Charging. 231 00:17:27,670 --> 00:17:30,050 You want to come up just so that way people can hear you from home. 232 00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:35,370 Another option in regards to the state delegated plumbing fees. 233 00:17:36,530 --> 00:17:41,150 As you can see on page two, it just states that it went from 234 00:17:41,150 --> 00:17:46,710 per fixture units, that's why there's a change from the current to the new for the value-based, 235 00:17:46,830 --> 00:17:54,190 and that's why there's an increase in regards to that. The second part on page two, 236 00:17:54,570 --> 00:17:59,910 we have opted for the non-residential multi-family plumbing permit, 237 00:18:00,110 --> 00:18:04,070 planter view included for a new single fixture permit, much like a water heater, 238 00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:07,510 water contingent are if it's same for same that is being replaced. 239 00:18:08,750 --> 00:18:16,870 The minimum would be through that state fee schedule of $270, but we have opted to provide 240 00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:21,910 that as a 210 because we feel that is more commiserate with the service of going out there 241 00:18:21,910 --> 00:18:24,090 for the final inspection with that. 242 00:18:24,590 --> 00:18:28,630 So we are trying to assist with some of that decrease already. 243 00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:34,950 Secondly, with the state delegated plumbing fees, if the rum river became your delegated 244 00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:40,810 official for plumbing, two, three years ago, there aren't too many permits that come 245 00:18:40,810 --> 00:18:49,750 through the city for that particular work, however, since rum river partners with the city 246 00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:55,090 on that, the city receives a percentage of that permit and plan review fee. 247 00:18:55,710 --> 00:19:09,390 that would be an option that we would still be able to charge what the state is charging for that if you wanted to not receive part of that percentage and then we would be able to pass that on to the customer. 248 00:19:10,130 --> 00:19:21,030 Otherwise, the state if you decide that remember would not be your plumbing delegated inspectors and plan review the state would charge and the state would keep all of that money. 249 00:19:21,030 --> 00:19:22,570 So that gives you at least another option. 250 00:19:22,570 --> 00:19:23,970 Thank you for pointing that out, I missed that. 251 00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:30,290 But you answered my second question, so I was just wondering who would assume the state would be when the state fee is. 252 00:19:30,410 --> 00:19:31,010 Yeah, correct. 253 00:19:31,230 --> 00:19:38,990 And then the state collects and keeps all of that fee whereas when we have a local partnership the city is able to retain some of that fee yourself for internal operations. 254 00:19:39,810 --> 00:19:46,470 And like you said, thank you for that Roxanne, is that if you wanted to we could work that through so those monies would go towards the fee. 255 00:19:46,830 --> 00:19:48,510 And that wouldn't necessarily be retained, correct? 256 00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:53,390 Correct. Correct. It wouldn't be that percentage then wouldn't be retained by us. It wouldn't 257 00:19:53,390 --> 00:19:57,850 also be retained by this. Right. It would be. It would be less. Correct. I was just trying to make 258 00:19:57,850 --> 00:19:59,830 sure that this was a negotiation but 259 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:28,840 If you decide not to do it, that's what the fees are going to be threat state. So you kind of answered both questions. So it's either way it's going to be less expensive to keep it in-house, right? My other two questions, when you come to baseline and the fee of $10, do we talk about the paper option? I don't know if anybody need to do it, but we're at least giving them the option. And that paper, thank you for bringing that up. That paper option is really not a feasible option whatsoever because when people have paper, then we enter that for them. 260 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,740 So, they still utilize the system. 261 00:20:31,020 --> 00:20:33,420 It's not any less work for anybody. 262 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,560 It's simply a different process. 263 00:20:36,940 --> 00:20:37,420 Right. 264 00:20:37,660 --> 00:20:38,580 I just think it don't last. 265 00:20:38,780 --> 00:20:40,800 And I have a problem with a fee on top of a fee. 266 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:42,320 And I understand that. 267 00:20:42,420 --> 00:20:47,160 And we were again trying to be transparent about utilization of technology in those processes 268 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,200 because those all come with a price tag. 269 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,800 And most people probably would do that. 270 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,960 I'm thinking just for myself and I'm not the only person. 271 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:07,880 This is small fee when you're looking at pumping two septic systems and there's the $20 and the other $10 fee and another one of $20 and $10 and I did misspeak last time you want to take that. 272 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:22,600 So maintenance permits we have been completing that for the city of Oak Grove. The city was doing that prior to Rum River doing that and let me just reference it for you guys so that you can follow. 273 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:28,100 So it is on page 11, I believe. 274 00:21:29,180 --> 00:21:34,580 So the maintenance permit tracking, preceptic administration, city code and the MPC require 275 00:21:34,580 --> 00:21:38,960 septic tanks be inspected and maintained at least every three years. 276 00:21:40,060 --> 00:21:48,680 Rum River has been the administrator of that process, I believe since 2022, I think is when 277 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:49,280 we took over. 278 00:21:49,280 --> 00:22:00,060 The city was prior to that was charging $5 in fiscal year 2020, they updated it to $10 per permit. 279 00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:08,120 This increase at $20 per permit, so it would not include a technology service charge with that. 280 00:22:08,180 --> 00:22:10,600 That would be all encompassing for that particular permit. 281 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:17,480 This increase equates to less than two cents a day for a three year permit for that. 282 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,280 So I missed spoke last time when I said the technology service was applicable to this permit and is not 283 00:22:22,820 --> 00:22:29,260 And also that we are already providing that service and have been for quite a few years 284 00:22:29,260 --> 00:22:34,840 I am happy to state that baseline will be adding that as an additional module right now 285 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:42,600 We do it by spreadsheets similar to what the city had been doing prior to us taking over that that will assist us being able to 286 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,460 either send it out via email and or postcards to those 287 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:52,120 properties where we can cross-reference the compliance 288 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:58,820 septics and also the maintenance permitting and focus on 289 00:22:58,820 --> 00:23:03,780 those that have not pumped and or assessed their tank in 290 00:23:03,780 --> 00:23:06,620 those three years. And that is to help protect the ground 291 00:23:06,620 --> 00:23:10,300 water, not only for that resident, but also the surrounding 292 00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:13,120 neighborhood because we all share aquifers in various 293 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:13,720 different things. 294 00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:18,520 I think I already know what the answer is here, but I think 295 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,040 It's good for everyone to know. 296 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,740 At the end of the day, it's a negotiation. 297 00:23:25,340 --> 00:23:28,340 We either continue to have you do it at these rates, 298 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,340 or we say we're not willing to do it. 299 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,800 And you decide if you're willing to do it. 300 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,020 We're willing to offer. 301 00:23:34,740 --> 00:23:36,920 So I think when it comes around with, you know, 302 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,660 I don't like the fee, I don't like the fee blah blah blah. 303 00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:40,700 I don't like it, either. 304 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,440 But I understand, too, you have to pay for it. 305 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,160 So somehow we either have to find some type of a compromise. 306 00:23:47,160 --> 00:24:02,340 Is that still where we're at, or are we at, this is the fee schedule, and if we want to continue contracting with you, we're just going to have to live with this, or I guess I think it's just fair, instead of going in circles, where are we at? 307 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:08,980 Well, I appreciate that, Mayor and Council, so this is the proposed fee schedule, you of course adopt the fee schedule as it is. 308 00:24:09,620 --> 00:24:15,200 We have put a lot of time and effort into analyzing, compiling, consolidating these fees, 309 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,460 lowering them where they needed to be, and increasing them slightly where they needed to be. 310 00:24:19,700 --> 00:24:25,040 If there's any counter-proposal, I'd like to hear the thought process and the reasoning behind that quite frankly. 311 00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:29,840 Other than we don't like an increase in fees, I don't like an increase in fees either. 312 00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:36,440 Please remember, our employees are residents of Oak Grove, St. Francis, now that they are. 313 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,740 so we all are going through this the increases in food and fuel and taxes we're 314 00:24:41,740 --> 00:24:45,540 all in this together and I assure you these fees are commensurate with the 315 00:24:45,540 --> 00:24:50,020 service that I was required by the state of Minnesota and I understand that all 316 00:24:50,020 --> 00:24:53,380 I'm trying to do is instead of just going in circles and we keep having more and 317 00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:58,180 more meetings we'll just throw it out there where we're at here and you're not 318 00:24:58,180 --> 00:24:59,580 Remember not the only one. 319 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:29,560 Sheriff's, Sheriff comes, we, you know, have conversations with him or our, you know, finance, firm, all these people. So we're trying to do the best we can to keep things as low as we can. As are we, we're either going to have to come up with what we think is some type of a fair compromise or live with what you are presenting or figure out another plan. I think those are kind of three options that we're going to have to figure out. I don't know if any other options. 320 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,960 So I just don't want to continue to y'all, but it's me to get in two months. 321 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,420 I appreciate that because we've provided everything council has asked for, and 322 00:25:37,420 --> 00:25:42,680 I appreciate that exercise because that now allows us to have everything that a council might ask for. 323 00:25:43,060 --> 00:25:46,400 Some are asking for the fee schedule, that's it, we provide that. 324 00:25:46,660 --> 00:25:49,300 Some are asking for a detailed breakdown, we've done that. 325 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,600 Some are asking for a summary, we've done that as well with the color coding. 326 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,600 And some have asked for percentages and a summary of the summary. 327 00:25:55,860 --> 00:25:56,780 We now have that as well. 328 00:25:56,780 --> 00:26:03,200 So, thankfully, for this interaction, this back and forth, we've been able to provide all information that anybody could possibly ask for. 329 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:13,180 But, again, what I would ask for is if you have any counter-proposals to this, I'd like to know where that comes from, other than a disappointment in the increase in fees as we all have experienced. 330 00:26:13,780 --> 00:26:14,180 Right. 331 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,020 We don't like talking about fees either, as we don't have any. 332 00:26:17,020 --> 00:26:17,760 And that's the other- 333 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:18,680 Please understand that. 334 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,920 And that's the other reason why we wanted to have this conversation and say, okay, no more for three years. 335 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,820 This is where we need to go for the next three years, let's just let the things 336 00:26:27,820 --> 00:26:31,500 sit where they are and then in three years then we could talk about it after that. 337 00:26:31,780 --> 00:26:33,400 So we don't have to talk about this every year. 338 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,680 That was another concession that we were able to make. 339 00:26:35,940 --> 00:26:37,660 And I hope you understand and appreciate that. 340 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:37,980 Right. 341 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:42,520 I was just throwing it out there is realistically that's the options we have. 342 00:26:43,060 --> 00:26:46,860 When the sheriff comes, we need to go with him where we go with someone else or we go with nobody. 343 00:26:47,140 --> 00:26:52,340 So I think just sometimes it's nice to know where we're at versus just let's keep 344 00:26:52,340 --> 00:26:55,740 meeting and just just movies happy with with anything. 345 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:56,060 Right. 346 00:26:56,300 --> 00:27:01,100 And our position was here, we provided every level of explanation from the detailed 347 00:27:01,100 --> 00:27:05,380 all the way down to the summaries, and so therefore, if there's any counter-proposal, 348 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,540 I'd like to hear more about the line-by-line reasoning behind it. 349 00:27:09,620 --> 00:27:13,460 So I would, unless you get some real quick follow-up between minutes to the next meeting. 350 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,680 So is that one fee, the only fee that there's a 30% or is there other fees like that 351 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,740 that where we could reduce, if we wanted to reduce what the city takes from it. 352 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,920 That would be the question maybe to take away question, or if that's the only one. 353 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:39,140 That's the only fee that I can think of, is that your referencing is that if we didn't want to send it back to the state kept it in house, we could adjust those fees accordingly, so that the city's portion that you would no longer retain would go towards lowering the fee. 354 00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:47,020 There are percentages though, we are paid upon a percentage, so if you wanted to renegotiate that part in order to do those savings, 355 00:27:47,020 --> 00:27:51,220 we certainly would be able to to work with you on that we love serving the 356 00:27:51,220 --> 00:27:56,000 community of Oak Grove we hope that you guys continue to partner with us on 357 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:01,840 that and we would love to try and continue to to work through this I don't know 358 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:07,100 if it's possible that if we have one particular liaison that is able to work 359 00:28:07,100 --> 00:28:13,360 with us in regards to that so that we're not taking up the entire time for your 360 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:16,640 work workshop and or city council meeting. 361 00:28:16,780 --> 00:28:18,120 I don't know if that's permissible, 362 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,220 but I just thought put it out there 363 00:28:20,220 --> 00:28:22,080 in order to have this further conversation 364 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:22,440 and make it easy. 365 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:23,160 That's a good suggestion. 366 00:28:23,380 --> 00:28:23,860 Thank you for that. 367 00:28:23,940 --> 00:28:25,320 We have done that in other cities as well, 368 00:28:25,420 --> 00:28:28,040 where we have a liaison, where we'll be able to collectively, 369 00:28:28,340 --> 00:28:29,860 your collective thoughts through one person. 370 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,560 So again, we're not taking all of your time. 371 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:32,140 Thank you for that. 372 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,020 I will, we're going to end this meeting, 373 00:28:34,020 --> 00:28:36,400 but we can, I'm not seeing you have to stay. 374 00:28:36,580 --> 00:28:37,720 We can chat about some of that, 375 00:28:37,820 --> 00:28:40,380 maybe towards council here at the end of our council meeting, 376 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:41,660 just to kind of get a direction. 377 00:28:41,660 --> 00:28:52,480 I don't know how long the meetings go, you don't have to stay for that, but I'm going to end this work session now and we'll pick up a regular schedule meeting here in about a minute or so. 378 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:53,820 Thank you. 379 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,600 Thank you so much. 380 00:29:00,990 --> 00:29:01,510 Pardon?