All right, it's 1:30. I'd like to call the meeting of the
Traffic and Transportation Commission for March 16, 2026 to order. We'll go
ahead and do roll call. Commissioner Littlefield
» present. >> Commissioner KS is not available.
Commissioner Hail >> here, sir.
» Commissioner Martinez is not available. Commissioner Wyn
» here. >> Commissioner George
» here. >> Okay. And Commissioner Cornet is not
available. So, we do have a quorum and we are able to to proceed.
We go on now to the next item. Uh, approval of the minutes from February
16th, 2026. Can I have a motion, please? >> Motion to approve.
» Motion to approve by Commissioner Hail. Do we have a second?
» Second >> by Commissioner Wyn. Any discussion?
» Uh, if you if you recall, uh, we asked for a presentation on parking meters,
why, how come, where does the money go, all that, that'll be in April.
» Oh, okay. So, it is being worked. They just asked if they could have a bit more
time. Okay. So, we have a motion from Commissioner Hail to approve, seconded
by Commissioner Wyn to approve the minutes of the February 16th, 2026.
Votes, please.
There it is. Item has passed. With all five in favor,
we go on now to reports from the traffic services division in the counselor's
office. >> All right. You've got our standing
standard monthly report before you. Um I just want to make a few comments on the
uh alternative speed abatement program status report. We haven't had any new uh
speed humps installed since mid December of last year. Uh the reason for that is
because we're in the process of looking for a new vendor. We've been so until
until we have someone new under contract to provide them, we're kind of holding
on pending applications and like I said, working to find a new
vendor. And as far as the rest of the report, the only other thing of
consequence is um on the last page there is a under turn restrictions there's
been a new one that's been installed that is on Northclassen Boulevard at
Northwest 13th Street and that is for a northbound no left turn basically
weekdays from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. And aside from that, I'm happy to answer
any of the questions you might have about our standing monthly reports.
» All right. Thank you very much. Council's office.
» No reports today. >> All right. Thank you very much, sir.
» Okay. We go on to item four, the consent docket. There are no items. We go to
item five. 5A. Corey Hubert, parking services manager. Uh item is up on the
screen. Sir, if I could have your name and address, you got five minutes.
» Corey Hubert, 431 West Main Street, Oklahoma City.
uh North Hudson uh just west of the um courthouse, we have two uh commercial
loading zone spaces. We'd like to have those loading zone spaces replaced with
government use vehicles only in order to reduce the amount of blockages uh to our
street car that's negatively affecting embark customers and the community at
large.
» All right. Thank you very much, sir. Do we have anybody else want to speak on
5A? Okay, staff. All right. In this
particular case, the requested change is going to eliminate a commercial loading
zone in favor of parking for government business adjacent to the Oklahoma County
Courthouse. Um, you can see up on your screen um a type of blockage that Mr.
Hubert was referring to. So, in this particular case, action is going to be
at the direct at the discretion of the commission. So, if the commission votes
to remove the loading zone in favor of the um reserve parking for government
business, uh the commission's action on removing the loading zone is final, but
we'll need to take a uh an ordinance on to the city council for the uh
government business parking zone. So, I'm happy to answer any questions you
might have on this request. >> All right. Thank you. Do we have a
motion concerning 5A? >> I've got a question.
» Yes, sir. Um, it doesn't affect my support of it, but would these parking
spaces be available to the physically disabled if need be
with a just a placard? >> In this particular case, there they
would be reserved for the use by official government vehicles. Primarily,
it'd be uh law enforcement or other similar agencies.
» Okay. Can I have a motion concerning 5A?
» Motion to approve. >> Motion to approve by Commissioner Hail.
Do we have a second? >> Second.
» Second by Commissioner George. Any discussion?
» I just have a comment. I guess wondering we're just changes from one type of
parking to another. How is that going to necessarily fix anything? Sarah,
» you come up.
Thank you for the question. >> When we've gone out when there's been
blockages of negatively affecting the street car and the community, we've gone
out there and it's typically a nonl law enforcement vehicle
» that's parked over that line. >> The idea is that the law enforcement
agencies will follow those >> guidelines. Okay. Okay.
Good follow-up question. Yes, sir. >> Another commercial loading zone. Where's
the next closest one outside of this one?
» There's commercial loading zones on Park Avenue. Um and then again on uh just
north of the um museum. Those are the two that ring the loudest
bell in my head right now. I don't have them all memorized.
Well, just just to talk about it, >> when it's a commercial loading zone, is
that timelmited? >> Yes,
» usually. >> Not necessarily. It can be.
» So, that's my first question. And the second thing is if it's a commercial
loading zone, usually it's probably a larger vehicle.
» Yeah. >> Which would be, you know, some U-Haul or
something. Yeah. Something big >> that may not fit in that space and then
therefore caused the blockage. Is this probably the only commercial loading
zone that is near one of your tracks? >> Um, I don't have that information
readily available. Um, it is one of our most problematic.
» Okay. >> Uh, blockage areas by far
» where where the train has to stop and you got to call the call the law
enforcement and then they do something and then you call a recorder eventually.
» Correct. >> What's the time? What's the time on
that? Usually processed 30 minutes to an hour before you get it
blocked. Usually, I mean, it depends on if you can't find the owner,
» local law enforcement, what they're doing by the time they show up.
» I doubt that >> coming and addressing a street car
blockage is the highest of their list of priorities and they have
» safety to be concerned with, >> right? But but at some point they show
up and then they do their process if I remember right and then they call the
wrecker and then the recorder's got to come.
» So this is your your worst spot. >> Correct. And as you can see in this
image, it's not a delivery vehicle. It was actually someone else that was
parked there that was attending court. >> So let me go back to my first question.
Is this a timelimited commercial loan zone?
» No. Typically, uh, commercial loading zones are set up so that they can be
used for basically an indefinite period of time so long as you're actively
engaged in the use of the zone by moving things in or out, but uh, they're not
set up so someone can just bring a commercial vehicle and park them in
there without showing any signs of activity. So, most of the zones, I
think, in the downtown area are not timelmited.
And what you're seeing at this spot is parking more than loading and unloading.
So you just want to get rid of it. >> Correct.
» Okay. >> Yeah. I I've personally witnessed court
reporters. I've personally witnessed attendees of
the court system. I I cannot think of an instance where I
saw a FedEx vehicle or a UPS vehicle or any type of delivery vehicle utilizing
it. Okay. >> All right. Thank you very much, sir.
» You bet. >> Any other questions or comments on 5A?
Yes, sir. >> So, besides an obvious government
vehicle like a police vehicle, what kind of placard would they have if if it was
a government somebody, but it wasn't necessarily a vehicle that had anything
on it identifying that? Is there a decal or something?
They may have a they may have a government issued tag. Uh, a lot of
times I've seen people leave like business cards or other site forms of
documentation to indicate that they're they're on government business, but a
lot of times for the most part you see like police agency vehicles.
» Okay.
» All right. Any other talk on 5A? >> Okay. We have a motion to approve 5A by
Commissioner Hail, second by Commissioner George. Votes, please.
Item has passed with all five in favor. We go on now to 5B. Caleb Morgan from
Johnson and Associates. Uh the item is up on the screen. Sir, if I can have
your name and address, you got five minutes.
» Caleb Morgan, Johnson Associates, one East Sheridan, uh Sweet 200, Oklahoma
City. Thank you for hearing this item this afternoon. Uh this is for uh to
accompany on street parking on 10th street u at the uh on the north side of
10th street east of Dwey Avenue. And uh I'm sorry it's actually on on Dewey
Avenue north of 10th Street and uh this is a company of development that's going
on in that area. We're closing Classen Drive uh for public use and there's
development uh going just on the southwest corner of Classen Drive and
this will be accompanying parking that's on 10th Street and on Dewey Avenue. Uh
we appreciate staff working with us on this item and make sure everything's up
to code. Um if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.
» All right. Thank you. Anybody else want to speak on 5B?
Okay. Staff. >> Okay. In in conjunction with a new
development, the applicant is proposing to build parking laybys on the east side
of Dwey Avenue and a short one on the north side of 10th Street. Uh the total
number of spaces are going to be increased by 21.
So at this point in time, the uh they're still within the prescribed ratio for
the number of accessible parking spaces for the physically disabled to the total
number of parking spaces on the block. So action on the on the item will be at
the discretion of the commission. And I just want to note that at this time the
applicant is not requesting any controls to regulate use of the proposed parking
spaces which will be built on the east side of Dwey and the few on the north
side of 10th Street. >> All right. Thank you. Do we have a
motion concern in 5B? >> Move for approval.
» Move to approve by Commissioner Littlefield. Do we have a second?
» Second. Second by Commissioner Hail. Any discussion on 5B?
» We have a motion. Oh yes, sir. >> I just real quickly want to thank you
for fulfilling all the requirements for on behalf of the disabled citizens in
our city with this space. It's great. Thank you.
» We appreciate it. We appreciate staff working with us making sure we meet all
those requirements.
» All right. Any other talk on 5B? Okay. We got a motion to approve 5B from
Commissioner Littlefield, seconded by Commissioner Hail. Votes, please.
Item has passed with all five in favor. We are now go to 5C. Ryan Mcanahham.
You're going to have to help me on that. uh HSSE Systems from Dos Brothers uh
hallway stop control North Oklahoma Avenue and Northeast 82nd Street. Sir,
» Frank, I'll be speaking on behalf of >> Oh, very good.
» Speak uh to to the uh intersection. >> Sure.
Come on up. Oh, here we go. Hello. >> Yep. So, I'm going to introduce and then
uh they're going to add some uh some local flavor from their experience out
there. Uh so, this is the new intersection uh at uh 82nd in uh
Oklahoma, the half development there. Uh the intersection itself has been in in
place and functional for a few years now, but just recently the south half
connected from the south and tied in uh an approach from the southside making a
fourlane intersection that was a T3 or sorry four approach system that was a T3
approach intersection. Uh previously I have some pictures here. We just went
out and took some um I'll show you an aerial. Previously on the bottom it was
that three approach. So no approach from the bottom and this is the way it sits
now. So they have a boulevard approach from the B from the from the south. Uh
so it's a four lane or four approaches intersection. Now um the way it was
installed when it was the T intersection was to have a single yield sign from the
north. So that single um approach without the without the uh one coming
from the south just had a yield sign. It was free flowing east and west. So, uh,
Delissi's on the corner there and they're they're here who's speaking in
the, uh, in the, uh, northeast corner over there. Uh, just some pictures of
that area. So, we understand traffic, uh, staff has done a great job doing
analysis on this intersection. It doesn't meet the warrants for a four-way
stop. Uh, that's based on current counts and current, uh, collisions. They do
have some uh there has been a a collision recently with an injury and
they're going to speak to that and a few other incidents they've had out on site.
Uh this area is developing rapidly and there's the ENQ that just went in
recently uh in the south uh west corner of that picture there and there's a
school that's being developed. You can kind of see the dirt moving on the
southeast corner of that picture. Uh so they're going to you're going to have a
lot of new traffic and and some high schoolers in that area too. So, the
concern is also for the future um to protect the the pedestrians and citizens
in the area. So, that's why we're requesting it an all-way stop. Um and
we're going to have them talk on a few uh incidents they've had out there.
Right.
» Yes, sir. If I could have your name and address, you'll have five minutes and
then if you haven't filled out one of these, fill it out when you're done,
please. >> We're good. My name is Kermit Frank. I'm
with Deli at 8300 North Oklahoma Avenue. I'm vice president of uh community and
government relations there. Um appreciate the opportunity to speak with
you guys today. Really do. Um our offices are located on that northeast
corner of that intersection and um we have nearly 175 of our 1,200 employees
assigned there. We've been at that location since 2021.
And when we first moved in, we were pretty isolated.
Delicia has a strong safety culture and our motto motto is safety always. So
people have no problem uh speaking up and telling us about things when they
have an issue. So even being isolated, we heard about numerous near misses and
we had safety concerns for this intersection going back to when it was a
three-way. Uh we submitted a request for an
installation of a yield sign back in 2023.
to help clarify the rightway so people could understand what they're coming up
to. Uh we didn't hear any response so it remained unresolved.
Fast forward to August of last year and it's really hard for me to qu quantify
to this commission um Mr. Chai how appreciative we are of having Oklahoma
Avenue open uh giving us true north south access because we were captive to
going north. Uh we just love it. We really appreciate it. Thank you.
However, almost immediately we began getting reports from our people of near
misses at this intersection and being a four-way, they were dramatically
different what we were hearing. And so we submitted a request last September
for a two-way stop and that resulted in in the yield signs
that we have now. Reports of near misses have continued.
However, I must say that when we got notice last week that it was possible uh
that we wouldn't get signs because we've been telling everybody that gave us a
near miss report. It's in the process. We're working on it. Uh the the
floodgates opened. I don't know. It's impossible for me to tell you how many
people have come to me and said, "I've had a near miss." Folks that traveled
here today on our behalf had near misses on the way over here. Um, and I'll just
say one of those includes my wife who was coming to bring me something one day
traveling west. Nearly got hit by a car going north who didn't stop at the yield
sign and she promptly called me and said, "Do something about this. This is
dangerous." So, she knows what I do and thought that maybe I would have the
chance. And so, thank you. I am here. The most common theme I have found in
the conversations that I've had with people is that the yield signs are
either being ignored and they just they just aren't effective in this
application. Uh most all of the concerns and letters and documentation we have
are about people going north and south. So, I appreciate the time and effort of
the of the people in the study, and it seems to me a very good indicator of
maybe a moment in time, but we're on the cusp of explosive growth at 82nd in
Oklahoma. I mean, we have a thriving restaurant, a busy movie theater, an
extremely popular entertainment venue in Andredy, and a 300 unit apartment
complex, not to mention another office building. And most importantly, I think
in just a few short months, we'll have another business on the southwest
corner. And in September, I just uh attended the groundbreaking for another
high volume entertainment uh venue, uh the the Fieldhouse, which
is going to be very cool. Uh but as Caleb said, the one thing that's got me
really really concerned is shortly uh the opening of the new Bell Ale High
School in 82nd is going to be an access point for the high school and I was 16
once upon a time. Anyway, in conclusion, that intersection will never have less
traffic than it has right now. And I understand there's only been one
accident and that's kind of one of the triggers that it takes five to really
establish criteria for something like this. But I'd ask you please to grant
this application for the four-way stop so we can get a grip on this
intersection and we don't have to come back after four more and the possibility
of some of our people getting hurt. Anyway, thank you very much for your
time and thank you very much for your service to community serving on this
commission. I appreciate it. >> All right. Thank you very much, sir. Do
we have anybody else want to speak on 5C?
» All right, staff. >> All right. You've got our comments
before you. As you noted, um the applicant had mentioned that this
particular location presently does not meet any of the MUTCD always stop
control criteria. Uh the applicant has provided a petition demonstrating local
support for the traffic control change they're seeking. So action on this item
will be at the discretion of the commission. I'm happy to answer any
other questions you might have on this application.
» Thank you. Do we have a motion concerning 5C?
» Move to approve. >> We have a motion to approve by
Commissioner Wyn. >> We have a second.
» Second. >> Second by Commissioner George. Any
discussion?
» Okay. Okay, we have a motion to approve 5C by Commissioner Wyn, seconded by
Commissioner George, and we'll have our votes here. That's my fault. Yep, please
vote.
It's green here.
There we go. Item has passed. Would all five in favor? Thank you.
» Thank you. We go on now to 5C. Cara Bowererman. Traffic signal at Northwest
Pennsylvania Avenue and Northwest 198th Street.
» Ma'am, if I could have your name, address, you have up to five minutes.
» Cara Berman, 2225 Northwest 198th Street. Uh I'm a resident of the Lost
Sonatada neighborhood and a school counselor at H Heartland Middle School.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I'm also supported by a few
neighbors and students um on this initiative, if you don't mind smiling
and waving, including my head principal at H
Heartland. This intersection has been a growing safety concern for years, and
the situation is only getting worse as our area continues to grow. The
population in northeast Oklahoma City and far northwest Edund has increased
dramatically and traffic on Pennsylvania continues to rise every year. What may
have once functioned as a temporary solution simply is not keeping up with
the volume of vehicles and student walkers using that crosswalk today.
Before the crosswalk was installed, students were actually jaywalking across
Pennsylvania get to get to school because the only signalized crossing
nearby was at 192nd Street nearly a mile away. to address that problem. At the
time, the county commissioner, Kevin Cowie, helped facilitate the
installation of the current crosswalk. That effort was well-intentioned and
necessary at the time, but the crosswalk that was installed did not anticipate
the growth that this area would experience. Today, the crosswalk relies
on small yellow LED lights that are difficult for drivers to see, especially
in the early morning hours and especially since daylight savings time.
Even when activated, yellow lights do not clearly direct drivers to stop. They
simply flash um when the AC activated button is pushed, which many younger
students forget to do. The crossing can give students a sense of protection
while drivers may not realize a child is about to step into the road. When I
first began working at H Heartland, I walked to the school myself from my
neighborhood and would often help students cross at that intersection. I
did I did that until I became pregnant and did not feel comfortable risking it
anymore. After that, members of our school administration, including my
principal, tried to help facilitate traffic through the area in the
mornings, but that eventually became a liability. At one point, our school
resource officer uh through Edund Police Department attempted to help direct
traffic, but but she ultimately had to step away because that road fell under
Oklahoma City jurisdiction. I don't think we can real realistically expect
Oklahoma City police officers to be stationed at that intersection every
morning to manage traffic on a school day. To help illustrate what families
and staff experience every day, I've provided a handout, a large handout that
includes testimony from parents, teachers, and neighbors describing close
calls near accidents and the difficulty drivers have seeing students in the
early morning hours. You will also find copies of a news article that previously
reported on the concerns surrounding this intersection as well as a letter of
support from the president of the H Heartland Parent Organization who has
served as a board president for Safe Kids Oklahoma. Together, these
perspectives reflect a broad community concern about the safety of this
crossing. Another challenge is that the current crossing has created something
of a false sense of security. Students assume the lights will protect them, but
drivers often do not notice them or do not know how to respond. The result is a
situation where children are stepping into a roadway with fast-moving traffic
and limited visibility. This issue also affects traffic entering and leaving the
neighborhood. Because many parents do not feel comfortable allowing their
children to use the crosswalk, they instead drive to pick them up and park
near the entrance of Loanada. That creates additional congestion and unsafe
condition conditions along Pennsylvania as well as inside the neighborhood
itself. A prop a proper traffic signal
would help regulate the increasing vehicle traffic entering and exiting the
neighborhood. The growth in this area is not slowing down. New neighborhoods
continue to develop and more families are moving to this part of the city
every year. The number of children and vehicles using this crosswalk will only
continue to increase. My daughter will one day attend Frontier and Hartland and
would use the same crossing. In its current condition, I would never feel
comfortable allowing her to cross there alone. I believe every parent in our
community deserves to feel confident that their child can cross the street
safely on their way to school. Thank you for your time.
» Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Anybody else want to speak?
» Please. Yes, sir. Let me have your name and address and you'll have up to five
minutes and when you're done, fill out one of the green forms, please.
» Evan Allen. I live at 1 19909 Adagio Lane. That's where 198
uh meets Adia Lane where it comes off of Penn. Uh I've occupied that home for 15
years. I've seen the development. The schools have happened. We're having an
integrous uh
nursing facility arriving on on the previously uncluttered corner. There's a
huge development behind the on uh the Casey's gas station there. Um, and Karen
never asked me to speak, but she's been a a big factor in in all of this and and
has lived and experienced it, as have I. Too many events to to talk to. But
sadly, people grow worse and worse. We import more and
more aliens from the Californiaiforns, the Arkansass, the Texans, and who knows
all where. So that all said, I've lived for 29 years. We came to
Oklahoma. I lived in the city. My kids graduated
from Patnham City North, so I've experienced that. My grandchildren have
graduated in the community, 26 and 13 year olds. And uh my wife and I have
both served in state offices in Wyoming and different places, lived
in different cities. This has been the worst intersection I've ever seen.
Thanks for your time. Thanks for your service. I know it's a thankless task.
» All right. >> And do you want me to
» Yes, please fill out one of those forms. Thank you very much. Anybody else want
to speak? All right. You had your hand up first, then I'll come to you. Okay.
Name and address. You have five minutes and fill out a form when you're done.
» Okay. Allison Dearzky, 19616 Sonatina Drive in Edmund/ Oklahoma City. Um, I am
a parent. My son is not old enough for the middle school yet. We still have
about eight years till that. But I have to turn left out of the neighborhood at
peak time in the morning. And as Cara mentioned, I have seen a lot of these
near misses and problems. Um, I appreciate the attempts at the crosswalk
and its meaning and intention, but when it's dark outside, you would think the
lights are more visible, but the children are not. So, I've seen the
light activated and the child maybe the first car closest to the side of the
road will stop, but then the middle, there's four lanes, so the two middle
lanes might not stop. So, they will be in the road and then have to look around
a car to see if someone is flying down Pennsylvania Avenue, not always in the
um school zone speed limit. And so, I've seen that. And then when they were
trying to u mitigate the problem by having someone direct traffic, turning
left became impossible um because all of the left turns out of the middle school
will head south. And then when they let that stop and they release the cars that
had been blocked up, Pennsylvania would all come and there would be no break. So
it'd be a solid line. And so that wasn't really working either. Um and going back
to visibility, when they activate the light during daytime, they don't the
cars don't see the flashing light at all. You might see the kid, but not the
light, the vice versa. Um, so if it's required for the students to walk
because they're not within a busing distance,
keeping them safe is obviously our primary goal. And so I appreciate Cara
for bringing this to you and for you to hear our plight and our worries. And I
appreciate your consideration. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Ma'am, come on
up.
We'll have your name and address and you have up to five minutes and then fill
out a form. >> My name is Rachel Sanders. I live at
2209 Northwest 199th Street in Edmond. Um I brought my daughter here. She's
sixth grade at H Heartland and firsthand experience. She's probably been almost
hit by a car a handful of times this year crossing in the morning. Um she
doesn't like to walk but like we said we don't have a bus stop. I mean a bus
route. So, unfortunately, that's the only way. Um,
especially now that it's dark in the morning, like they've said, you can't
see those kids. It's dangerous more than you guys
realize. And my daughter's life is at jeopardy at times, crossing to get to
school. And I'm afraid something's going to happen before something h before
something gets done. Um, I have more kids, you know, they're
going to go to H Heartland and it's it's just scary. It's scary.
Definitely as a parent sending her across that street and not knowing if
I'm going to get that call that, hey, there was an accident. She's told me one
one day she crossed and she barely missed getting hit. And one of the
counselors at H Heartland had to like come for her and be like, hey, you
really got to watch out. She watches out.
There's no way for her not like she watches, she makes sure she crosses, she
runs across that street and still barely misses at times. So, I appreciate Cara
for bringing this up and I hope you guys choose something. Thank you.
» Yes, ma'am. Anybody else want to speak on 5D?
All right, staff. >> All right, you got our comments before
you. Um, the commission last considered a request for a traffic signal at this
particular location that was submitted by Miss Powerman back in July of 2023.
That's a little bit of past history. Um, we have done a complete signal warrant
analysis based on traffic volumes, pedestrian volumes, school warrant
studies, and at this point in time, the intersection currently does not meet any
of the signalization criteria for at this particular location. Um,
a school crossing guard could be a good would be a beneficial safety measure at
this location to have help kids get across the street. But should the
traffic and transportation commission approve the request for the signal, uh,
the approval needs to include roadway widening for dedicated for a dedicated
northbound left turn lane on Penn for safer left turn access to Northwest
198th Street. So, at this point in time, action will be at the discretion of the
commission. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have on the
application. >> Thank you. Do we have a motion
concerning item 5D?
» Yeah, I've got So, it was in 2023 this came up the same application.
» Yes. >> And I assume it was denied.
» And did is that when we put in the the school crossing guard instead?
» Well, no. I >> Or not the crossing guard, but the the
» the school flashers. I think the flashes were I think they were in place in
place. >> Yeah. What was what I believe occurred
was the crossing was there >> but the 25 mph school zone was closer to
the school >> and one of the things we recommended was
move it. >> We it did get moved back.
» Yes, it is. So >> that there is traffic warning to say
slow down to 25 for school zone before going northbound.
» Right. >> We're there. That's the other way.
» Well, you know, obviously something needs to be done here. 67 kids. That's a
lot crossing right there. Um on just that one day, you know, and it it
doesn't say what the weather was. It might even been a cold day. But uh um
so there, you know, there's a traffic light, but then the other option
possibly um I guess is if you actually do the the that doesn't just do the
flashing yellow, but actually puts a stop light like over on 23rd, I believe,
a 23rd, uh kind of in that re redone area, isn't
it? Where you hit it and it >> by the theater,
» right? Yeah. And it actually has a stop light.
» That's correct. >> And for it lasts for a minute or two
minutes or however long it lasts. >> Good point.
» To get kids across. I mean, was that you know the the fact that it doesn't
meet any criteria for a stoplight is one thing, but um I think we definitely have
to soup up the safety factor there um in my opinion. So I would be in favor of
the stoplight or the crossing stoplight. Is that something we can change on the
field or is that have to be a new application?
» At this particular location, it's at an intersection. So, the best traffic
control would be for a full signal. >> Okay. I'll I'll move approval for a full
signal with widening for the left turn lane.
» Okay. We have a motion to approve 5D from Commissioner George with the
recommendation from staff. >> Yes. Do we have a second for 5D?
» Second. >> Second by Commissioner Littlefield.
» Okay. Comments. Good sir. One of the problems I have with that is they're
still going to be walking across the street unattended
where if you had a crossing guard to regulate
to help them, especially the younger kids, uh it seems like a crossing guard
for this situation would be more effective, like I say, because you're
still going to have your kids crossing the street unattended. And I'm afraid
that it may just lead to more of these near misses where if they had a crossing
guard, an adult there to help them across the street, it seemed like that
would be more of a safe avenue than trusting the young children especially
to uh trust the lights.
» Okay. Would you like to make a comment? police state.
» Um, whenever I was participating in helping kids cross, um, we we were not
given permission from our district safety coordinator to put a crossing
guard there. So, I was crossing the street 60 times
» to help kids cross. Um, but I stopped cuz I was almost getting hit as well
when and I had become pregnant. >> Why Why wasn't it approved?
» Why wasn't it approved? I'm not sure. It was Mike Johnston is our district safety
coordinator. I don't know if it's because it's Oklahoma City Road and it's
Edund public schools. >> Um
» Edund students. >> I'm not sure. I'm I I think I mean I
think it was necessary. My principal does, but um every time we've tried to
get out in that that road, we've been deterred by district.
» All right. So, as far as the crossing guard,
» Mhm. >> we all we all think we know that the
process is the school puts in a request and then the Oklahoma City funds it. The
Oklahoma City has a funding for it. They do the you do the training for the
crossing guard, provide them all the gear, and they get paid and they do
their work. But in this situation, it's a school from outside of our is Have you
ever heard of that one before? Is that one that we need to have legal maybe
provide us counsel? If you could look into it maybe to say, "Hey, uh, it is
Oklahoma City kids on an Oklahoma City road, but it they're walking to an
Edmond school. Uh, who would is it okay for the city to
go ahead and pay for the because do does Oklahoma City pay the person or
does the school district gets the money for it and then they the school district
pays? Do you know >> it's split between the police
department? >> But who actually pays the person?
» See, >> it comes from the city. The
» funding is split but the check comes from the city.
» Check come from the city. >> Okay.
» And we the city supervises them, right? >> They have authority through city
ordinance to be a crossing guard, >> right?
» Those are city employees. >> Okay.
» Part time. >> And it has you would would you in a in a
layman's way think there'd be no problem because the they're actually going to a
different school in a different city. It doesn't m do you think that matters?
I think it matters in that the process is different this time and so it's
harder to get those channels moving in the same direction.
» Okay. So, >> it's usually requested by the school
district being that it's an Edmond school district. It's not there's no
request process in place. >> Yeah. But we have
» we have in Oklahoma City what 11 school districts in our city.
» I mean >> more than that I think.
» Yeah. Well, school district you count all the different ones.
» I think there's more. So I I would ask the staff counselor's
office in the uh in the PD to let's look at that. Can we get a hold of admin and
say okay we can have a crossing guard there. You just have to submit a letter.
Hey, we'd like to have a crossing guard or do we even need that? Can we just
say there is one? I I don't know >> how how to work this. I think we can
work together and >> at least get an answer one way or the
other, right? >> Whether it's appropriate for there to be
a crossing guard there. >> But I think that's that's a a short poll
that that we can work because once you would have the process and we identify a
person who would want to do it, get the training done. You know, I'm not saying
it's a tomorrow thing, but it's a short poll. We could get that done pretty
quick and get somebody out there this school year. pro possibly
» you'd be able to do that probably quicker than to be able to fund the
light. >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. The funding of light
is years out. >> No, we'll talk about that in a little
bit. >> Yeah. You know, so
» but but but as far as short polls, >> that's the first one. So if we could
take that as an action to try to find a way to get a crossing guard there. So
that's the first thing. Somebody in a vest with a sign
» and say stop. could even help the cars coming out of the neighborhood. You
know, just keep everything organized in that area. So, that's the first point I
I have. The second one is you mentioned that the Oklahoma City uh resource
officer eventually said he couldn't do that. So my question to you, Captain, is
is there a reciprocal where they actually could go uh 100 yards into OK
Oklahoma City and do that process? As she said that he said that he couldn't.
» It's problematic. Their their score resource officer would be an Edund
police officer, >> right?
» And for an Edund police officer to enter Oklahoma City limits and try to enforce
any sort of traffic action or write a ticket to some driver, it's impossible.
Um, >> so, so the reciprocal is only when
emergencies and >> I would expect a driver to respect the
authority of an Edmond police officer even though they were so close to the
boundary line there. However, the Edmond police officer does not have the
authority to issue a citation in our city limits. So there's there's no
follow through on the authority. >> Well, and also put them at risk
» for they are at risk for trying to enforce things when they don't have
jurisdictional authority. >> That's what I'm saying. So that's a true
statement probably from the resource officer. I think that the resource
officer is doing the right thing by not trying to enforce traffic in Oklahoma
City. >> Okay. Uh so I wanted to clarify that to
make sure because that's a next day thing that could be fixed right away. So
if you maybe you could just ask if maybe they could find if there is a way just
check to make sure there is no way >> for Edund PD to enforce traffic
ordinance in Oklahoma City. >> No.
» Within 100 yards of Edund? Okay. >> Well, you know, just to make sure that
that's right because if if there is a way that legal and everybody agrees that
they could be sit there and do something,
if it could, then that could be a really short poll.
» So, is Penn a completely a city Oklahoma
City street? >> Uh, could you call up where the map is
of the >> Yes. And it stops. It goes
» is the crosswalk in Oklahoma City. >> Yes.
» Yeah. The crosswalk's in Oklahoma City down here.
And there's Edmond right there. So, it's about 100 yards.
» That blue green.
» Now, county would be, but then they're not the resource officer for that
school. County. It's it's a city. Okay. >> And then the third one, and it was
mentioned how dark it is there. Is there a street light at that intersection?
» No, sir. >> Okay. How do we ask for a street light
to be put at that corner? >> I believe you just did.
» Okay. So, we're going to put in a have the city put in a request to OG& to
install street light there for the darkness times.
Uh they they usually just put one at a corner
» and you would think probably on the corner of the of the uh crosswalk
» and those LED lights that they use now are very bright.
» So So we have a request for lighting to help something as soon as possible. Of
course, we're getting into the point now, but get into next year when it gets
really dark in the mornings uh to be able to have that. We're looking into uh
can Edmond come into Oklahoma City. We're looking into that. And then the
last thing was I forgot it. The crossing guard.
» Yes. of how to how to pay for a crossing guard that's in our area but supporting
a school from outside the area. >> Okay.
» Okay. So, we're working on those three things.
» I I do want to point out visibility for a crossing guard might be difficult. I I
think you can see it in some of the photos. The cars pull up right to to the
crosswalk. Some even are parked on um the crosswalk if they're waiting. And so
whenever I've walked home before, if all the cars are waiting, I kind of have to
like peek around to the next like lane. Um, so I think a crossing guard is
great, but in the way that it it is painted on the road now, visibility is
tough for any human. >> Okay. Uh,
» will they have flag? They will have some type of signage to
» they have to stop sign. >> I mean, they they won't just be jumping
out there. They'll have some type of warning.
» Okay. >> And then uh does the crosswalk need to
be reainted? >> I think so with just more direction.
» Okay. So, if we could have them look to see if it's faded out and needs to be
reainted. Just things that we could do now.
» Yes. I appreciate any typical road paints that say crosswalk ahead or
anything as somebody's driving up toward it or are we solely dependent on just
those light? Well, and then we have the crosswalk sign.
» Yeah, there's there's that. And there's um there are school zone flashers on the
approach to it. >> And are those activated at the right
times? Are there sequences correct on the timing because those could be
adjusted? >> That's a great question. So, um kids
start walking to school probably at you think like 6:50 7, but the lights don't
go on until 7:10. And so there are kids crossing when the speed limit is 40.
» Okay. So let me clarify. I believe the the actual school gets on a website and
adjusts those times. >> No, the school will send us uh
information on crossing times when they want the flashers to be activated.
» Okay, >> that's how we work that.
» And then even for holidays, they send you a note say please turn them off for
» We typically get an annual schedule. >> Okay,
» so like right now the the flasher should be deactivated for spring break. Okay.
» So, they need the school to contact you or Okay.
» Okay. >> So, the school needs to You just need to
let them know what time people start crossing and when it should be
activated. Okay. >> Good. All right. We're just trying to
make it as safe as possible. I appreciate it so much.
» Know what we have. >> Now, zone was extended the last time I
requested this is because it used to be so Frontier Elementary was built first.
School zone was put in for Frontier. Then Hartland was built a few years
later and the school zone wasn't moved to compensate. Um and so that that has
helped um >> for responsible drivers, but there there
are still cars flying through there probably up to 60 miles per hour.
» Okay. And then while we're still talking,
uh a signal light, as it was mentioned in the staff re report, would require a
a widening of the road to put a a left turn lane there. And also we just did a
general obligation bond which goes out for about 10 years and all that bond has
been allocated. And so we're so you're talking a very
long-term process before it could get in.
» Right. >> But I always recommend to the applicant
you have a city council person and the city council allocates funds. We don't.
We just say okay we we want a light. we want this and it goes into the system,
the staff system, and the staff gets counsel by the city council. So, if this
gets approved >> and it's something that uh $250,000
project, that's a long time before it's going to
get done. That's why I'm trying to get all these things cleared up as much as
we can. But if you think it's such a big priority,
then your council person needs to know that that it's a big priority for you.
» Okay. Thank you. >> Then you go from there.
» See what they can do. >> Is it legal to I mean $250,000 is a lot.
Would it be legal to fund raise at H Heartland or Frontier to help move this
process along? >> Yes.
» Cool. >> Yeah. there there's neighborhoods and
and areas and shopping centers that that the the developer or the neighborhood
helps fund >> to make it move quicker. So, there there
are ways to do that. I would definitely get with your city council person
» and or our city council person and um let them know, you know, that you're
going to try to fund raise to that you guys really think you need it.
» That helps move things along. >> Okay.
» But but it is it could be a 10-year project. That's why this the crossing
guard was a great idea for now, you know, because it could be even in the
quickest it's going to be a year or two. >> Okay. So,
» yeah. No, I appreciate the thoroughess very much. I'm learning a lot.
» I had a whisper in my ear. It's probably close to a million.
» Okay. >> Yeah, it's Yeah,
» I was talking 40 year ago money. No. >> Yeah, it's a lot.
» It it it's probably it's probably a very big number.
» So, >> quick question on that point.
» Yes, sir. >> So, the recommendation was for widening.
Can you explain why we would want some winding on this one? Because there's not
really left turning accidents that we're worried about. There's not rear ends
happening there that so proportionately that we would say, "Oh boy, we really
need to separate the left turners out of the through movement." This is really to
try to stop people from going through there quickly. I don't know if a
widening is needed. I guess I'm not understanding it.
Well, I can I can tell you that just about on every application where we've
had where a traffic signal was installed without roadway widening, almost from
the day the signal gets turned on, we start getting basically calls and
requests for turn signals because they can't make a left turn. Then we get
asked to modify signal phasing to accommodate left turns. Um when we did
the 2017 general obligation bond, the majority of projects in the uh in
Proposition 3, which was for traffic control, was to do widening projects at
roadways where traffic signals had been installed, but left turn lanes had not
been included. So, >> and I completely get everyone wants the
Cadillac when they get Cadillac, right? >> I think you guys want something that's
functional as soon as possible. with that. I think honestly the cost of just
the signals is closer to that that 250 number when you do the widening and you
have to go buy right away have to move utilities and then you start ballooning
the cost up and it's scope creep and it's not only just money, it's time.
It's going to take an extra four or five years to get through the project
development process to get to the point of being able to do the roadway
improvements. you start now you're at 15 years before you're starting to see the
improvements as opposed to if you can go figure out where signals can go in there
do some sue analysis to see where you're not going to be hitting some utilities
you can go put some foundations in tomorrow technically not with we don't
have the money but if we have the money put foundations in now get that set up
with the cabinet and they'd be operational without having to go buy
right away and move utilities so yes it won't function as great as something
with those left turn bays but it would function a lot faster and be a lot more
cost effective. >> Well,
» remind everyone that the only place to turn left that's not out of the
neighborhood is going northbound on Penn and there is the right lane that someone
could get around if somebody's turning left. When you're heading south there on
Penn, there's nowhere to turn left. It's a because it's essentially a three-way,
» right? So we turn left into the neighborhood all the time every day
without a light and it's it doesn't block up traffic. So just I appreciate
you saying why do we have to widen? >> Well and alter alternatively the uh if
this is for a school crossing purpose the school uh students don't have to
cross at 198 street. If they wanted to cross at a location north of that, then
you could put then you could put in a signal and not have to put worry about
any roadway widening. So, say like the crossing was located pretty much at the
uh Oklahoma County, Edund, and Oklahoma City limits, a uh a standard crossing
just for pedestrian activity could be installed. And that would not
» solve a lot of problems having the resource officer being able actually go
police that then too. >> It would be closer to the school.
So >> you'd have to build a sidewalk.
» Yeah. So what you're saying is we build a sidewalk on the left side on the west
side >> up to the green line where the county is
and put the crosswalk there. And then we could do like the 23rd Street crosswalk
by the theater where it's just a push a button and it turns a red light. Your
concern is if we do that there because it's an intersection it creates traffic
flow problems. Who has a right away when it's red light and yada yada. So that's
a solution. Do you see what we're saying ma'am?
» Do you see what we're saying? >> Yes. Go all the way to Coell. build a
sidewalk to go north on the west side of the road and put the crosswalk up there
right at the school where it's Edmond right down. No, down
» down right there. Yeah. >> Put a light there.
» Well, then you could put Now that's not a road, is it? That's just the entrance
to the school. >> Yes. That's car drop off.
» Yeah, that's the entrance to the school. It's not a road.
» It's on the south side of the school. Yes.
» Right. But it's not a road. >> It's not a road.
» Street road. Okay. So, what we're saying is
have the students walk up on the west side of the road going north and then
put an a stop light activated crosswalk like we have on 23rd Street by the Tower
Theater. Is that what it's called? Mhm. >> And we put that in as a midblock
crossing where it actually stops traffic.
And that way you could do that. And And how much
less expensive is that than you know >> that would be considerably less
expensive because you'd only need two signal poles for a project like that,
» right? And I thought that was like 150,000 when they asked for an amount
and then the city because we were going to split it. You remember that they had
that they were going to pay half and we were going to pay half and then the city
ate it. >> Yeah. I would guess it would probably be
200,000 maybe a little bit less than that for
» Okay. >> a midblock type crossing
» just a second. Yeah. Just a second. Just a second. Second. Let's let them finish
up here.
» Actually, I think that sidewalk is in place already. You just have to have a
landing that would come up to back up to pin.
» We need Do you have a picture of that area
closer that we can zoom in on? There we go.
» Is that a sidewalk going up that way? >> Yeah.
» So, there already is a sidewalk up to that spot.
» On the left side, it needs to be extended. That's somebody that's
farmland. That's not the neighborhood, >> but right at the end of that sidewalk.
Right at the end of the sidewalk, that's where we we put the crossing
» is where it would be put. >> Oh, on our propert
Yeah. Right there. >> Right across there to the sidewalk.
» Okay. And then we could do a a walker activated stop stop light which
would cut down the cost. >> Mhm.
» And uh only be used when it needs to be used and it wouldn't require and it
would move all that energy closer to the school where it
could be managed better. probably >> the only concern is that would make it
even harder for parents to turn left out of the school onto 10 because it'll
block up traffic when it gets activated and then those cars will start going and
then the cars will never get out of the school.
» Well, you're not talking a whole lot of distance. What's that about 150 yards?
If that
and Edund PD could probably enforce your resource officer to go out and help.
Again, this is not anything that would happen today
and it would be an option to the to the signal light and we'd have to ask
council, do we need to can we modify down to something like this?
Well, it might be problematic with Open Meeting Act because we we posted notice
about action being taken at 198th and Penn.
» Okay. >> And I mean, I know it's close, but it is
a different intersection, a different area. There could potentially be other
people interested in in that question. >> No, that's a good point.
» We wouldn't be I don't think we'd be able to pro approve that today, but it
certainly is an option that could be brought back. So, we could press on with
this item. Let's say it gets approved. We all know that that's a 10-year out
thing for a for a million-doll project. Then the staff could maybe look at a
cost thing and see if there's effort available from the city to maybe move
something up. It see, you know, it could start the process of looking at
different options. >> Okay.
And we're already looking at some short-term options and we could maybe
look at a long-term option other than a signal light there
» and look at >> I think it's a good idea.
» Okay. Do you have any more input on this?
» Yes, sir. >> Please come up to the mic.
» Just wait. Just wait a second. Come up to the mic.
» Now I'll talk. Uh, I'd like to reinforce that idea because the problem is that
the people coming from the county are growing in number daily and they drive
faster and faster like Cara said up to 50 and 60 miles an hour and they don't
care whether the cars are stationary from 192nd to 206th trying to get into
the school. They come speeding through there. It's a 40 mile per hour zone and
there's ve very little distance between that. They come racing up and down
actually. But the morning is the biggest hazard with dropping children from the
right. The cars are parked stationary. They park across the pedestrian
crossing. So everybody has to determine that poor God will be his life will be
at risk or the person's life will be at risk with every child that he takes
across there because nobody obeys the law. They come racing down there at that
speed with all the traffic congestion on the right hand side. So nobody's moving
here. And just bit just south of the the image there's two communities where
people need to enter and exit. So that whole stretch where they're also going
to squeeze the integrous uh clinic that's opening in a month's
time. Um paint has got to be less than a million dollars. There's lots of
opportunity to put bold paint on the roads.
By slowing the traffic down to 25 miles an hour where they supposed to do it
would help. They would be moving more slowly in that section. They've just
recently come along and stuck a big 40 mph sign as you exit to go south.
that could even be it visible there with a shadow
saying okay you've passed the school zone you can do 60 miles an hour um and
uh it it's just treacherous >> thanks for having
» thank you sir you had a comment I believe
» just point of interest there's a a midblock pedestrian crosswalk that was
installed more recently than 23rd on Northwest 63rd
» between Western and what would that be? Western Avenue and Grand Boulevard. You
» I think it's between Western and Grand. >> Could could be a good cost study there.
» All right. All right. Any other talk on item 5D?
» Yes, sir. >> So, definitely supportive of something
needs to be done here >> with us talking about the idea of moving
the crosswalk up north a little bit. Is this something that we could look at
deferring action on this item until next month while we are looking into what we
need to do as far as open meeting act requirements to maybe bring something on
that instead or what what's the procedural process here?
» Well, what are you looking at wanting to do by moving it? I mean moving a
crosswalk is a simple process. Moving a crosswalk and putting up a signal light
is a little different, >> right? And if we are approving the
lights right now and then we're going to talk about moving the crosswalk up to
the north, does that make sense to have the crosswalk separated from the signal
lights that we'd be approving today? >> Well,
let's say after a year or two, it's determined that the best option is a
signal crosswalk and move to that area. Then a motion
comes up and we just cancel the light at that place and
make and approve that to occur as a midblock crossing.
» Am I Am I right? >> Yeah. I mean, the the commission could
undo a previously approved action, >> right?
This would just be a a long-term poll put in the system
and then if something better comes up that's a least cost effective something
could be done quicker maybe >> uh then we would just undo what we did.
» Well, and to reiterate, supportive of doing something here. much more
supportive of not including the widening to make that long pole a little bit
shorter so that potentially a bake sale could happen or something that could
help fund this a little bit faster with the partnership with the city.
» Right. >> Right. For and for us to uh consider a
midblock c signalized midblock crossing to the north of 198 street would need to
just get a revised request from the applicant.
» Yeah. But we would want to know is that
something that we would want is that something that would work
and then like we said work with your with your council person to make to get
their buy in because they can go hey maybe find a smaller number easier than
a bigger number. Okay. Any other talk on item 5D? I've
got a question on >> on on pin kind of this whole new north
pin new in the last 10 years 15 years but um are there any intersections that
have lights that don't have the turn or on May that don't have that center that
center left turn lane or they all because they're almost all fairly new
intersections >> just about all new intersections come
with turn lanes >> so that you don't you can't think of any
that are on here Well, there there are a lot of existing
intersections. >> Yeah.
» That were constructed, you know, further in the past that will have like no turn
lanes >> and some will function all right, but
others I mean, when you look at the size of the development on the west side of
Pennsylvania Avenue now, and there's room for additional development to occur
further to the west, uh this would probably be a location where we would
get a call for >> to add a left turn
» for widening. Okay. Well, you make a lot of sense with what you're saying though.
So, >> yes, ma'am.
» I was gonna say over on Danforth, not far from us between um Penn and Western,
the Danforth Farms neighborhood has a four-way flashing stop that is just now
getting a light, but has been flashing stop signs for at least eight years that
I've been here. So, there is one that didn't have turn lanes.
» That's correct. That's correct with the that signal went in without turn lanes
and that's because the uh the amount of earth work that would be required and
the and the size of the retaining walls which would be necessary to widen um 100
or 192nd Street at that location. It' be pretty staggering because uh the
properties that are on this especially on the south side of 192nd Street sit
considerably higher than 192nd itself. Okay. Any other talk on 5D?
» Just real quick, the concerns I and I hate to go back to this, but the concern
I have is that if you really got people willing to go through a 25 mph zone, the
school zone at 60 m hour, we need some officers on the scene to slow people
down. The other thing is I'm want I hate to go back to it, but I personally would
prefer to have an adult escorting children across Pennsylvania Avenue. If
I would really like to see y'all pursue that because if your drivers on the
north pin are that inattentive to pay attention to a speed zone, I'm not sure
how attentive they're going to be to uh trying to get through a light quickly.
Uh it just seems like that an adult cross crossing guard would be the most
effective way to make sure the kids get across safely.
» All right. So, Captain, could you put the word out to that sector to please go
look at this area and monitor it as best as they can?
» All right. Thank you very much, sir. Okay. Any more for 5D?
We have a motion to approve 5D from Commissioner George to include the
recommendation from staff seconded by Commissioner Littlefield. Who votes,
please? >> And just real quick before I vote, so if
we vote yes on this and it has the staff recommendation, would that preclude us
from funding signals if it didn't include widening?
» We could always change things. We can change it, but is there a reason why we
wouldn't just say let's fund it with let's approve it right now without the
required widening and if it needs widening in the future that doesn't even
have to come to this board, does it? >> No. No, it would not. I mean, if if the
intersection is signalized, it can be modified at any time after that. So long
as the traffic signal is maintained. I mean, turn lanes can be added whether
left or right turn. It doesn't require any further action by this body.
» Yeah. But it's it's city policy. It's city not policy but
» norm city norm that >> best design practice.
» Best design practice. Anytime you put in a signal light, you put a left turn.
» Yeah. I I do want to make sure mention that as you put that left turn in,
you're just increasing the distance that those people have to walk as well across
that street. >> Right. And we provide adequate
pedestrian clearance time for the for the additional roadway width.
Well, and completely understand. Just because there's more time doesn't mean
that someone doesn't run a red light and hit and still.
» Exactly. >> The best design in the world will not
preclude someone from running a red light.
» Completely agree. Just it seems odd that we couldn't just approve the signals by
themselves and then if widening is necessary in the future, we figure out
the widening that goes through, especially as you work with communities
to see if that's something that's actually an issue in the future. again
very supportive of I'm about to vote yes on this but I just wanted to talk
through that because right now what we're saying is we're approving a
project that is going to be a million dollars plus which may kick the the can
down the road that much further as opposed to something that may be a much
more attainable project in the near term.
» Okay. So then let me say to uh to to
Commissioner George >> do you want to modify your motion? Yeah,
I you know, I think you've your your points are just right on. So, I I I
would like to modify my motion to uh approve the application um not including
the widening of the road at this point. Um
there you go. Appreciate. >> Yeah.
» Okay. And then I go to the second. Commissioner Littlefield, do you agree
with the modification and do you continue your second
or do you >> Look at y'all staring at me.
There's a lot of things going on in intersections that are controlled by
lights besides pedestrians. >> Oh yeah,
» there's lots of things going on. One of them and I've always been taught
certainly in was if it was a signalized intersection and it didn't have a a
designated left turn lane, we see rear end accidents all the time. You know,
where where do you where do you put the value of safety and and life saving when
you skip one thing to make it safer for another element? when we've had really
good discussion here today about a human being being present at the intersection
probably would solve 99% of safety issues with children
as pedestrians there. >> So, um I don't know if I want to if I
want to agree seconding your motion.
» The uh let me ask on the light. Would there still be a left arrow just in just
in that in >> without a left turn lane? The only way
you could accommodate something like that would be to attempt a splitphase
operation, but it would not be very traffic responsive. We would have to use
a pre-programmed left turn arrow and it would just use our best guess as far as
the amount of left turn time allotted. >> And to be fair, we're talking about an
intersection that doesn't meet warrants right now, right?
» That's correct. So, I mean, the rules of how we would do an intersection based on
warrants is different than one that doesn't meet warrants. And now we're
saying, well, but how would this function the best? Well, what we're
trying to do is talk about kids crossing the street. It's very different than how
do we move vehicles around here? How we make sure these left turners are getting
through there? And we may end up with a situation where yes, there could be a
potential for rear end accidents that happen in the future. I would hope that
as we are getting closer to actually implementing this project, there would
be a look at what the AAD is at that time and what turning movements there
are, what kind of collisions are there, so we could make the determination does
a widening necessitate now or did we not need it?
» Well, you could always you could always uh look at it that from the perspective
that it will never be less expensive to put in a left turn lane to do it now
than it will be to retrofit it in the future. Yeah.
» Well, >> from the it sounds like from the
discussion that we've had, it would be make more sense to have a pedestrian
crossing light than an actual traffic light. Well, I mean, it's we're talking
about widening. We're talking about it just it's what you're describing. It
would make more sense just to have a pedestrian crossing light than the
actual traffic light, >> but not at that intersection because
then it creates traffic flow problems because when the when
» admittedly when the reds go away, who has priority and all this other thing?
» If you moved it down, >> what move it up? Yeah,
» I mean move it to the north. That would be correct. I wouldn't have any
heartburn with that, but it just seems like it would make more sense than an
actual traffic light if we're going to go the light route instead of a crossing
guard or with it. Just seems like it would make more sense. It would be able
to installed without the road work. We're not having to worry about the turn
lane. uh we don't have to worry about the light functioning whenever the
school is out >> because the light would still function,
» you know, whether school's in session or not.
» And if what we're trying to do is make sure the kids are pedestrians safely,
then that would make the most sense. >> I've got to ask the applicant if they
want to submit them. Well,
I I think a way ahead is to proceed with this
» to get it on the list, >> right?
» We all know the list is 10 10 years out, >> right?
» And then we all know that we're working some short-term issues.
» Right. And then we're working a medium-term also where the staff is
going to look at to what would it take to be able to put a midterm crossing at
the end of that sidewalk up there by the school.
» If they the applicant, everybody comes back to us and says, "Hey, we this will
work and it'll be a lot cheaper. Even if we just move the crosswalk up
there without the signal light, maybe even better."
that may be even another thing to think about as a short term.
» But then to go ahead and say, "Okay, we need 200,000 is different than saying we
need 1 million and if it can be fit into a budget of operating money compared to
a bond issue." >> Well, that's where city council gets in,
» right? >> And then we could present all that to
the city council and say, "This is what is recommended."
And then once that happens and there's no more need for the light, then
something comes to us and we say stop it.
» That's all I'm saying is that that's my recommended flow which is to proceed on
with this to include the staff recommendation
» because that's the worst case meaning it costwise worst case costwise
you know whether it's 700 you know five 500,000 for the light and 500,000 for
the lane. That's still going to wait for the for the bond.
» So, am I not able to second his modified recommendation? I'd love to do that.
» Well, >> yes.
» You pulled your second. >> I pulled my second.
» I'll second it. >> You'll second without staff
recommendation. Okay. So, now we have a motion
» to approve if we can change when we get that here in a second. once she changes
it. >> And may I change my vote?
» Well, we have to here. Yeah. >> You know, it just it moves it from a
10-year to a five-year by not by not widening right now. And but then all
these other steps are still in place, which which you know the moving it up,
putting the red the the stop, you know, so the crossing guard, I mean, all those
are in place now also. or will be >> could be.
» So, you know, I just think it it's the >> Okay, so we have any more talk?
» Traffic signal >> hit your button.
If a traffic signal here is approved today and the improve the necessary
improvements along with it, which is a designated left turn lane, would that
intersection produce two crosswalks, one to the north and one to the south, or
would it just be the one remaining crosswalk?
» You mean uh having crossing going across 198 plus a crossing going across uh pen?
» No. um >> on the north side of the intersection
and the south side of the intersection on pin.
» Oh, >> okay.
» It would take a separate application for a midblock a signalized midblock
pedestrian crossing north of 198 Street. >> Okay. That's that was just a question.
The the comment that I want to make is if it's if it's decided,
we're coming up with great ideas to help these people. Believe me, I'm not
arguing with any of that. >> But if we if we decide today to just do
a light >> and and leave the need for a designated
left turn lane to the future, that pushes that back into that 10-year realm
of time, most more likely than not, too. So,
I'm just saying it. Well, well, what'll happen is
after five, eight, 10 years when they're starting ready to go for another bond
and they would look at this, they will they'll go out and do another study.
They'll look at traffic flow. They'll look at what's all going on. And if they
determine that they need a left turn and to put it in, then staff would just do
that. Am I right, sir? >> Yeah.
» Right. that you know when we make a recommendation and we say to include
staff that's just so when the staff goes to the budget process and the planning
process he has us in his back pocket he can pull out and say traffic commission
said it >> but 8 to 10 years from now traffic is
double more things are going on there's more of a risk they do their assessment
they look and go oh the traffic commission didn't say it but they were
looking at this narrow time >> now it requires this,
» they just do it. >> They just do it. They don't
» and they would add it into the project. No, it wouldn't come back to us.
» Oh, really? Okay. >> You know, that's the the whole re, you
know, the light is the thing. >> The staff recommendation is part of the
» planning and and who gets what kind of thing. And if if if
» if staff can have us as a backend, got >> that helps. So like here, you know,
let's say that it goes opposite. People move out of the area and there's
nothing. Well, you know, >> right?
» That's But that's not going to happen. No.
» In Oklahoma City, >> it's just going to get worse and we know
that. >> So whether we go just the light or the
light with recommendation, we're really just saying the light.
the the recommendation if staff determines for safety and all that
that something like that needs to be in there, well, they're just going to do
it. >> Okay.
» That's not anything that's our concern. >> Am I correct, staff?
» Yes. But typically, we put those things in there because u it's it's best for uh
others who may be looking at this in the future. I mean, there's always staff
turnover, >> right? that that there's a record that
turn lane improvements are supposed to be included in a project like this.
» The uh but if we include it, you're not going
to put a light in unless you widen it, right? It's not like you're going to
make that decision, >> right?
» What I'm saying, I mean, it the light's not going until the w it gets widened if
it if that's included >> or it' be concurrent. H
» it would be concurrent though the intersection and
» this way we can put a light in hopefully a lot quicker for six $700,000 less and
they can get it and maybe even help fund it a little bit. But uh so that's my
only I mean >> of course I think the application before
you is based is all based on pedestrian safety for kids that are leaving that
are crossing from the west side of Penn to get to school in which case a
midblock a signalized midblock pedestrian crossing away from 198 street
could still be an option >> right
» y >> yeah and that's what what I would
suggest you all do >> bring that back
» rightward >> yeah and you all will have to do that.
You'll have to make that application >> because it won't come back on its own.
» You you as a group need to think about >> moving that up and getting the red light
so that there'll be a safe crossing up by the school,
but you'll have to bring that application
because they we can't just do it, I don't think. So, you all have to make
it. Then you'll have that one might only take a year. This one if it gets
approved might take five years and if we go back to widening it probably take 10
years. So you know how quick you want to do things.
» Well let me just throw it out there. >> Yeah.
An option that could happen is the applicant asked to defer this item
» until staff and the applicant looks at a possibility of doing a mid block
crossing >> up there by the school as we were
talking about at the end of that sidewalk
» because I I don't want to say to defer this and and immediately go home and
type one up and submit because I don't know if it can be done. I don't, you
know, I haven't been out there. Don't know right away. Don't know all
that kind of stuff. All that probably has to be looked at, right?
» So, >> so they can they can do a study just on
your recommendation? >> Uh, no. I would say that
uh they would probably want to after this item is voted on,
» they would still want to submit a package. Well, I'm just saying if they
wanted to defer this, >> they could defer,
» but then on your recommendation, he can do the the the more further north
crosswalk. >> Yeah, I was about to say on in this
particular case, you know, deferring it, withdrawing it, it's not going to change
the timeline for its construction. If the applicant would like to visit with
us after this meeting is over and explore options maybe for a a midblock
pedestrian crossing someplace north of 198th Street. It doesn't have to
necessarily be right at the uh you know very close to the school's driveway.
Could be at a location which would allow both to function you know both 198th
Street and the school driveway to function
» without with minimal congestion. We can explore that option
» because then you're only talking minor infrastructure change by creating a a
sidewalk entrance to the road a pen. >> That's correct.
» And then the crosswalk, you know, the ADA stuff and then up to the sideway. So
what he's saying is maybe not even all the way up north to the school between
the school road and the 198
» 198 >> 198 somewhere in between there to across
it. And that way that clears that intersection all the way. Kids don't
even have to be around all that traffic. It's halfway up. It doesn't affect the
school entrance. And that might work. And then we can put
a school uh crossing light there where you push a button, it turns red,
everybody stops, cross, turns green, recycles. Got to push a button again. Uh
and it doesn't affect that's a good idea also. And see, that's why I'm saying
right here is not the place to actually write it out.
» So the option back to you, we could proceed on with this vote and get it
going. We could you could say let's defer and let and I could ask the staff
to just look at everything that we just talked about and talk to you and come
back with a a different option.
Yes, sir. I will say that I am having trouble
supporting a motion
to do this without addressing all things intersection.
But I do support taking this for the next 30 days and
having the applicant and staff have an opportunity to talk about something that
is in my mind more in line with your thinking
in time and money and effectiveness. I'm I'm seeing a little bit of a mess at
this intersection that I'm not comfortable with that I wasn't aware of
until you guys started bringing up your thoughts. So I would support a a
continuence. Definitely. >> Ma'am, now that you heard all this,
maybe you can help us kind of my life for like two years. I know it just you
can go on and on and on. Um I Is the crossing guard still going to
be funded? Is that still something that we're
» Yes, that's something that's going to be looked at. Can we do it?
» Okay. >> How do we work with Edmond School? How
do we do it? All that. >> Right. Thank you. I mean, everything
you've suggested, I promise I'm going to continue to try to work on. Um, I mean,
I I still think there needs to be some traffic control. I think that Pin is
just get going to get busier and busier. They're building up like crazy. New
apartments. Um, our entrance to Loanada, it's not just us leaving. There's
Castleberry behind us, Skyler's Court. Um, so so it really isn't just Loanata's
um entrance. So, I I I still like the original solution,
but with the time being cut in half. >> Oh,
» yeah. >> Okay.
» All right. So, counselor.
» Well, I say whatever we do, >> right?
» Whatever we do, it has to come from the commission.
» Correct. Um, so I mean if if we want to defer to the next meeting, then
Commissioner George could revise his his motion again or we could continue with
the motion. That's >> where I'm going right now.
» I think we're at a point. >> All right, we're going back. We
currently have a motion to approve 5D from Commissioner George, seconded by
Commissioner Wyn. No votes yet. uh without mentioning staff recommendation.
That's the current motion on the table. Is that motion stand, Commissioner
George? >> You know,
you know, I don't know. I I I kind of think that we
had to look at that. You know, again, the whole thing is to make it safer for
the kids as quickly as possible, right? And so I think that 30-day, can we get
it done in 30 days? you know, um, >> from a from
» I know it's hard for you all to >> come back.
» Yeah, from an analysis standpoint, we've got all the data we need.
» Okay. So, you can do So, I mean, if we do a 30-day until the next uh defer this
for 30 days, gives you a chance to figure out where the best spot would be
to move it to the north, how far up. >> We'll work with the applicant on that.
» Right. Right. And, you know, traffic flows would have would be part of it,
too. you know, that coming in and out of that school. But, um, and out of that,
» um, >> you know, and if it and if it comes down
to just doing the the light again next month, then we can just sure do that.
You know, and like you said, it's not going to add time. You know, this is a
years and years out on these lights. You wouldn't think it's not like a stop sign
where they can put them in pretty quick, but uh, it's years and years out. So, I
I would move that we defer this resend my second
and make this my third uh >> motion. No, that's fine.
» Okay. >> So, there's a third motion now.
» Yes. >> To defer this item
» to the next meeting. >> To the next meeting.
» Yes. >> And Commissioner Wyn,
» I'll second. >> We have a second by Commissioner. And
let's wait till she changes the the screen.
I don't know. It's not popping up. >> There it is. All right. Any other
discussion on 5D? We understand the applicant may not like
the uh the affirm it, but if working with the staff, no other solution, this
item will come back up next month. Okay. So, all right. So, we have a motion from
Commissioner George, seconded by Commissioner Wyn, to defer item 5D to
the ne to the next meeting, the one in April. Right.
» Okay. Can I have your votes, please? >> I'm I'm a yay. My It's not coming up on
my screen for some reason. >> Okay.
» Okay. Item has passed, which is to defer to the next meeting. All right. Thank
you very much. Uh, we go on now to item six, comments from citizens. Anybody out
there want to say something? Any of the kids want to get up and get on TV? You
can you can see yourself on uh on you YouTube.
No. Okay. When we're done, you you can come on up
here, too, if you want. Okay. Yes, ma'am. You come up to the mic, please.
» Just a quick question. Will we be notified for the meeting to come and
speak and hear? >> Oh, you'll be notified right after this
meeting. And I'd like to leave an invitation if anybody wants to have
coffee on the corner and come see it in action in the morning, just let us know.
» All right. Thank you. All right. And then uh
no comments. So now we go around the room here. Uh reports from the traffic
commissioners. Item seven. Commissioner Littlefield,
» you are saved this month. >> All right. Yahoo. Okay. We go to
Commissioner uh Hail. >> Nothing, sir.
» Commissioner Win, >> nothing.
to George. >> No, I don't think so.
» Okay. Thanks. >> Uh I don't have anything right now. Uh
counselor, thank you for your help today.
» Yes, sir. >> Appreciate it. And we even gave you some
work to do. Some of >> Yeah, I got some work.
» There you go. Captain, thanks for getting the uh notifying them to go out
in that area. Hopefully, you'll see them out there and also checking on
» if they can come into our area and all that. Okay. Appreciate all that. You got
anything else? >> No report.
» Okay. Staff, you got anything else? >> Nothing else to add.
» Anybody have anything else for the traffic commission? All right, we're
adjourned.