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All right, with that being said, I'll
call to order the September 8th common

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council meeting. Um, it is 700 p.m. and
the agendas were appropriately noticed.

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Item one on the agenda this evening is
the roll call. I will ask our city clerk

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Joanne Maron to call the role.
>> Mayor Kim Smith

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» here.
>> Alder person Tom Smith

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» here.
>> Alder person Jim Bash

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» here.
>> Alder person Kathy Lowendorf

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» here.
>> Alder person James Voychick

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» here.
>> Alder person Steven not

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» here.
>> Okay. So we are all in attendance. And

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just for a little helpful information,
if you have your mic on, you should be

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speaking. When you're not speaking, turn
it off and then the audio will come out

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of the speaker in front of you and aid
in clear hearing of what's going on. Um,

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item number two is the pledge of
allegiance.

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Thank you for that. Item three is the
rules of the city of an Alaska common

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council and its subcommittees. This is a
harassment-free forum. The city council

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and subcommittee meetings shall be
conducted in a courteous manner.

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Citizens, council, and committee members
shall be allowed to state their

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positions in an atmosphere free of
slander, obscene remarks, or threats of

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violence. Sufficient warnings may be
given by the sergeant at arms or the

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chair at any time during the remarks.
And in the event that any individual

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shall violate the rules of decorum as
set forth, such person may then be cut

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off from comment or debate.
Item number four is public input. Those

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members of the public who wish to speak
today have provided us notice and I'll

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call on you in just a moment. Each
person will be given three minutes to

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speak. The first person is Jeff Falmei.
You'll have to help me with the

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pronunciation. Um Jeff,
please come forward.

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And then make sure that microphone is
red.

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Okay.

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» My name is Jeff Bowing. I've been with
St. Pats for quite a few years and I've

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uh done traffic control there for
funerals. I asked a funeral home

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director to come tonight, but he uh
couldn't make it because he has the

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service going on tonight. So, all I'm
basically asking is to be reinstated

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to direct traffic
at 11th in Maine for St. pass for

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funerals going to and from to the
cemeteries once they leave the church by

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uh with that being stated, I have done
it in the past and I was given the uh

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permission by the uh current police
chiefs uh that we had years ago now is

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retired or so on moved on and they took
the responsibility away from me. And so

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I'm here tonight again. I was here
before asking for it and I'm here again

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tonight.
By that being said, I'm I want to

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protect the families going to the
cemetery,

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not happen to have the burden of an
accident. And while I was doing the

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control,
we didn't have any. And I did watch out

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the window a couple times and it was
close calls. So I'm asking again to be

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reinstated. Thank you.
>> Thank you for sir for your input. This

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will be discussed under agenda item 11D
later in our agenda this evening. Okay.

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Our second speaker today is Eugene Van
Ruden.

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um he does not wish to speak, but he
does want people to know that he is in

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support of the ATV UTV survey results
and if someone has a question, he's

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available to answer questions.

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That's everything I have for public
input. So, we'll continue on to the

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report from the mayor. Um item A is Miss
Wisconsin Jardine Butler Day

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proclamation. You'll find in your packet
that proclamation. It was presented um

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to Jardine at her sendoff meeting and
she is an an Alaska native currently

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serving as Miss Wisconsin. So
congratulations to Jordine. Item number

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two, oath of office and recognition of
fire chief Jeremy Southworth. It's my

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pleasure to introduce him and we'll do

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we'll do a swearing in for him. Um and
we're really happy to welcome him as our

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current fire chief.
Once again,

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» raise your right hand. Repeat after me.
I, Jeremy Southworth

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» I, Jeremy Southworth,
>> having been appointed to

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» having been appointed to
>> the office of fire chief

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» the office of fire chief
>> for the city of an Alaska

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» for the city of an Alaska
>> swear that I will support

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» swear that I will support
>> the Constitution of the United States

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» the Constitution of the United States
>> and the Constitution of the State of

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Wisconsin
>> and the Constitution of the State of

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Wisconsin
>> and will faithfully and impartially

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» and will faithfully and impartially
>> discharge the duties

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» discharge the duties
>> of set office

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» of set office
>> to the best of my abilities

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» to the best of my abilities.
>> So help me God. So help me God.

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» Congratulations.

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Congratulations, Chief.
Item number C is the oath of office and

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recognition of the assistant police
chief Shawn Kan. Sean

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It's nice to have a full house.
Okay, if someone can find Sean, we'll

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get him up here.
>> All right, he's got to make his way

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through the crowd.

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Thank you, Sean.

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Okay, just pause a minute until everyone
gets settled. If people are taking

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pictures, you can feel free to move to a
different spot.

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Make sure you get a good picture.

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» Raise your right hand. Repeat after me.
I, Sean Kan

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» I, Sean Kan,
>> having been appointed to

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» having been appointed to
>> the office of assistant chief of police

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» the office of assistant chief of police
>> for the city of an Alaska

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» for the city of an Alaska
>> swear that I will support

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» swear that I will support
>> the constitution of the United States

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» the constitution of the United States
>> and the constitution of the state of

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Wisconsin
>> and the constitution of the state of

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Wisconsin
>> and will faithfully and impartially

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» and will faithfully and impartially
>> discharge the duties

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» discharge the duties
>> of set office

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» of set office
>> to the best of my ability

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» to the best of my ability.
>> So help me God.

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» So help me God.
>> Congratulations

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Congratulations.

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Congratulations, Assistant Chief.

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I'm just going to pause a minute here.

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And that's why I like to do the public
swearing ins.

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Okay, we'll move on to the agenda. Um on
item we're up to 5D, appointment of the

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third district alder person. Um uh
interviews were held earlier this

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evening um of the candidates who had put
their names in to be included. Um this

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appointment will be effective on 9926
and it is to fill the vacancy created by

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the resignation of Larry Jurassic for
the term ending on April 19th of 2027.

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So, at this time, I would like to name
Kristen Odigard as my appointment to the

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third district and turn that matter over
to the common council this evening.

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00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:25,480
» So, someone would have to make a motion
and second it.

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I will move to approve Kristen Odigard
as the replacement for Larry Jurassic in

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the third district of an Alaska.
>> I'll second.

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» Okay, we have a motion on the floor by
Steven not. It's been seconded by Kathy

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Lowendorf um to um endorse the
appointment of Kristen Oldard. Now under

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discussion, would anyone like to
comment?

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Uh Stephen.
>> Yeah. Just want to thank all of the uh

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individuals who came up and threw their
their hat in the ring on that one.

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» Again,
I keep turning on. I keep getting

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» Oh,
[gasps]

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um I'd like to thank everybody who did
throw their hat in the ring and come

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forward on that. Um it takes a lot of
courage um to be able to come up in

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front of everybody at this raised DS and
go through a basically a job interview

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or its equivalent. So, I really
appreciate everybody doing that.

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» Thank you for those comments, Stephen.
Anyone else have a comment?

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I will add that I was very impressed
with all the candidates. I think any of

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them would be a great um a great um
person to step into the vacancy. Um,

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some of the things that drew me to
Kristen is that I guess the main

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probably the main thing is that she's
already involved on several local

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committees. So, she's a person that is
understands um how our local government

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is working, how the committees work,
what committees there are. Um, and will

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be able to, I think, quickly with her
work with the long range planning

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committee, she has a good idea of the
vision that's been established by her

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predecessors. and I think she'll be able
to just step right into the role and

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succeed um quickly for as for the other
candidates with Kristen's appointment

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that will vacate um several positions
that she was filling and so I'll be

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looking to those candidates um and
reaching out within the next few weeks

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um to bring forward some appointments to
the following to our following meeting.

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Okay, any other discussion? Okay, motion
on the floor is to approve Kristen

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Odigard. All those in favor, please say
I.

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» I.
>> I.

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» Any
>> I.

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» Any oppose say no.
Motion carries unanimously. Thank you

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00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:55,920
and congratulation Kristen. Okay. Item E
is appointment of the newly appointed

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third district alderperson to the
following standing standing committees,

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boards, commissions, and other
committees. Um those that were vacated

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00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:08,720
by Alder Jurassic are the ones that
we'll be asking Kristen to fill. They

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include the board of public works and
utilities, the public transit committee,

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and the long range planning committee.
So, I would like to entertain a motion

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to appoint her to those three
committees.

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00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:24,959
» So moved. I'll second.
>> Motion by Steven KN, seconded by Tom

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00:14:22,959 --> 00:14:30,000
Smith. Is there any further discussion
on this item?

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00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:33,360
All those in favor, please say I.
>> I.

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00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:37,600
» Any oppose say no.
>> That motion also carries unanimously.

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Thank you.
Next up on the agenda is recommendation

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for approval and or possible action from
the following committees, commissions,

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boards, and officials. All items listed
under the consent agenda are considered

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routine and will be enacted by one
motion. There will be no separate

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discussion on any of these items unless
a council member requests removal, in

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which event the item will be removed
from the consent agenda and considered

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00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:07,920
in the order of business on the
non-consent agenda.

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00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:12,440
Are there any items the counselors would
like removed from the consent agenda?

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If not, I'll entertain a motion to
approve the consent agenda.

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» I move to approve the consent agenda.
>> I second.

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00:15:21,199 --> 00:15:28,720
» Okay, we have a motion on the floor by
Tom Smith or excuse me, motion by Steven

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00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:33,600
not seconded by Tom Smith to approve the
consent agenda. There is no discussion

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00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:38,160
on this item. So please answer when your
name is called.

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» Steven not
>> I.

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00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,519
» James Vchick
>> I.

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» Jim Bash
>> I.

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» Tom Smith
>> I.

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» Kathy Lowendorf.
>> I.

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» All persons voted in favor. The consent
agenda is now approved.

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Moving on to the non-consent agenda.
Item seven is a recap of items pulled

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from the consent agenda. There were
none. Item eight is the finance

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committee. I'll turn it over to our
chair um to report on that item. Tom.

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00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:15,440
» Uh thank you. Uh the following list of
monies were expended since the last

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00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:20,519
common council meeting on dated August
11th, 2026 7,527,718.71.

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I'll make a motion to approve.
Second.

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00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:37,839
» We have a motion on the floor by Tom
Smith. It's been seconded by Stephen Kn

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00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:42,399
to approve the vouchers. Um, under this
item for discussion, Sabrina Steiger,

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our finance director, um, would like to
add some commentary. Sabrina,

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» thank you. Um part of the vouchers this
month is $4,697,975

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towards our bond payments for um they're
due October 1st. So that's why it's such

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a large dollar figure this month.
Usually we're closer to 3 to four

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00:17:01,839 --> 00:17:08,959
million. Um but that is the reason for
the larger number this month. Thank you

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00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:14,079
for that. Any other questions or
comments regarding the vouchers?

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Okay. The motion on the floor is to
approve. All those in favor, please say

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00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,199
I.
>> I.

187
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:25,679
» I.
>> Any oppose say no. Motion carries

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00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:30,080
unanimously. Thank you. Item number nine
is an older person report from Alder

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00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:33,919
Lowendorf. I'll turn the floor over to
you, Alder. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, I

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00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:38,400
won't be long. I just wanted to share
that on uh August 28th, I had the

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opportunity to ride along with Officer
Dimmitri Phillips for a few hours. Um,

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00:17:40,799 --> 00:17:46,960
we responded to a few calls and I was
able to briefly see how our police

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00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:51,679
department reacts with the interacts
with the the public. [snorts] Um, I

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00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:56,000
appreciated Officer Phillip's calm
demeanor and approach towards situations

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00:17:53,520 --> 00:18:00,880
that we that we dealt with. Uh, and I
encourage my fel fellow alders to set up

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a time to to ride along with a police
officer if they get a chance to as well.

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» Thank you for that. Item number 10 is
the city attorney report. Amanda

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00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:16,200
Jackson, give me just one second to pass
out some stuff.

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00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:30,919
Normally we'll be able to show these
things up on the screen. Um, next time.

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Okay. As the city is sort of just
evaluating different ways that we can

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look at cost savings,
um, one of the things that I wanted to

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talk about is our general liability
coverage. Um, so the city has kind of a

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00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:13,280
variety of different insurance
coverages. General liability

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00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:19,039
um, covers
property damage, um, general just

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00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:23,360
general kind of liability type stuff. So
like think of you know like claims

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00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:28,080
against the city of sort of a general
nature. So this would not include like

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00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:33,039
employment issues or workers comp. I
mean it doesn't include damage to city

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00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:38,880
vehicles but it would include damage if
we struck another vehicle. So that would

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00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:46,240
fall under general liability. Um
bodily injury um is another one covered

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00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:50,000
by general liability. And so
what I'm going to walk through is if you

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00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:55,280
look at the first page that you got,
that is our claims history. And I went

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00:19:53,280 --> 00:20:00,000
back I actually tried to go back 30
years. It gets a little bit murky in

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00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:06,960
recordkeeping past 2000. And so we're
going to really focus on 2000 to 2026.

214
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:12,400
So about 26 years of claims history. Um
we have

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high five over 26 years only had eight
claims. um you will see nine on there.

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00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:22,320
One is um two claims, one incident. So,
uh that's actually really really

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amazing. Um and we should be proud of
that that we we are very good at at

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00:20:24,799 --> 00:20:34,880
minimizing risk here in the city. Um and
so if you look across the entire 26

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00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:42,159
years, that's one claim about every 3.25
years. If you looked at just the last um

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00:20:39,679 --> 00:20:45,919
let's say from like 2015 on, we've only
actually had one claim on average of

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every eight years. So we have had very
few claims actually um in fact only two

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since 2010 to 2016. So you will see that
these are all claims that are above our

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self-insured retention. So self-insured
retentions are sort of like deductibles.

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00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:07,760
So that would be anything above what the
city would cover. So, we cover the first

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00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:12,640
$17,500
um of any major claim. And so, these

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00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:16,640
claims would be all of those that would
hit that self-insured retention dollar

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00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:21,039
amount.
And so, what I want to walk you through

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is as we're looking at premium renewals
for 2027,

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um we probably have the capacity, should
we choose, to take on some more risk.

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And so, I tried to kind of break that
down for you. So, if you look at um that

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00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:40,880
second page, I'm going to kind of walk
you through that. So, right now, as I

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00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:46,320
mentioned, we have a self-insured
retention of $17,500.

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So, for every claim on that first page,
we paid the first $17,500, which means

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00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:56,120
our total dollar amount spent across all
those claims was $157,500.

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00:21:57,919 --> 00:22:04,640
So, what I am looking at is what would
it look like if we were to have a higher

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self-insured retention and a lower
premium over the same time period. So,

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00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:22,159
our self-insured retention options above
175 are 25,000, 375, 50,000 or 75,000.

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00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:28,240
And so
if we were at a $25,000 self-insured

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00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:34,720
retention, those same claims would have
cost the city $26,827

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and change. So that is a difference of
about 50,000.

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00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:44,039
Our premium savings over those 24 years
would have been $75,888.

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00:22:44,159 --> 00:22:52,720
So the city's net savings across again
we are talking 24 years this is a long

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00:22:49,919 --> 00:22:55,720
game not a short game would have been
26,560.

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00:22:55,919 --> 00:23:03,960
If we go up to 37,500
those claim costs would have gone up to

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00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,960
$249,11

246
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:12,240
and change. That would have been an
additional 91,000 we would have paid,

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00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:16,400
but our savings over that same time
period in premiums would have been

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almost 160,000.
So net savings would have been about

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00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:25,280
67,000.
If we took on even more risk at 50,000

250
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:34,159
self-insured retention, those same
claims would have cost the city $261,61

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00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:39,880
and change, which is an extra 104,000
for a premium savings over 24 years of

252
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,880
$225,480,

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00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:48,600
which would be a savings again, that
savings over 24 years of $121,378.

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00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:54,880
If we went to the and this is not the
highest, this is the highest they quoted

255
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,640
us. I mean, when we were talking big
municipalities, like I'm pretty sure

256
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:03,520
Madison's or not Madison's like Green
Bay's self-insured retention is like

257
00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:10,400
150,000. Like this is kind of like the
lower end of of the self-insured

258
00:24:06,159 --> 00:24:14,240
retentions. Um, but at 75,000, our cost
of the same claims would only go up a

259
00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:17,240
couple hundred. At that point, it's
$262,129.62,

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00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:24,320
which is the actual cost incurred of
every single claim. So at that point, we

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00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:30,480
would be paying every claim on that
sheet outright,

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00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:35,679
which is a difference of 104,629.
But our premium savings over those 24

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00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:40,480
years would have been $319,000
in premium savings, which would have

264
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:43,480
been a net savings to the city of
$214,378.

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00:24:44,159 --> 00:24:51,840
And so, as I mentioned earlier, this is
when you look at it year-over-year, the

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00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:57,440
savings doesn't sound like much, but
when you look at the savings over time,

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00:24:53,840 --> 00:25:02,880
right, it starts to add up. Um, and so
because we are, knock on wood, a

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00:25:00,159 --> 00:25:08,400
relatively low-risk city and have been
over time, is there any appetite by this

269
00:25:05,679 --> 00:25:13,520
council to take on more risk? We have a
healthy reserves. um we do have the

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00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:17,279
capacity on some level to pay to pay
claims should they come. Also, we're

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00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:21,279
never locked in. So, if we have a bad
couple years and we want to lower our

272
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:25,679
premium or increase our premium, lower
our self-insured retention, that is

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00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:30,480
always an option.
So, the question before you tonight is

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00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:34,400
sort of what is your opinion on this? Is
this something We are at the absolute

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00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:38,880
lowest self-insured retention that Civic
offers at 175. So, we're paying the

276
00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:43,120
highest premium for the lowest
self-insured retention. And so, if you

277
00:25:40,559 --> 00:25:50,600
go on that very last page, that shows
you what the estimated premium is for

278
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,600
each of these dollar amounts

279
00:25:54,159 --> 00:25:59,120
with the corresponding self-insured
retention amount. So, again, when you

280
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:04,320
start to look at it by the year, it
doesn't look like much, right? Maybe

281
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:07,760
it's 3,000, 5,000, 10. I mean, we get up
to about

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00:26:06,159 --> 00:26:13,840
um
13,000 by the time you get to 75, but it

283
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:19,400
does add up over time.
So, I will turn it over to you for

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00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,400
feedback.

285
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,559
Okay, Jim Bash,

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00:26:24,463 --> 00:26:31,679
[clears throat]
>> I think you you made a good point, but

287
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:37,600
and I do agree that we should probably
uh raise our self-insured retention. I

288
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:42,960
think 50,000 in my opinion would be a
good idea, but unfortunately we know

289
00:26:40,159 --> 00:26:47,600
that insurance is not static. So, as the
years go by, we're almost certain that

290
00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:53,279
there's going to be a raise in premiums.
So, our savings may not be as great as

291
00:26:51,039 --> 00:26:59,279
estimated, but and in fact, we'll still
have some savings. Um, I that's my

292
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:04,640
opinion. I do think we should raise our
self-insured

293
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:10,080
uh retention and uh just keep in mind
that insurance premiums are not going to

294
00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:15,039
remain the same year after year. And I
think as uh communities grow uh our risk

295
00:27:13,279 --> 00:27:19,919
may
or may not be different. I mean, we've

296
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:23,840
got the police and fire and we're pretty
well

297
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:31,200
pretty good shape right now. So, I don't
think it would hurt us to increase it.

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00:27:27,919 --> 00:27:33,760
» Thank you for that, Stephen. Not
>> Yeah, I'm generally in support of

299
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:37,360
anything that brings about any cost
savings, but I do have a question for

300
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,799
Sabrina.
um any kind of insurance risk is

301
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:45,200
ultimately going to be determined by
each individual budget. And I'm

302
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:50,640
wondering what would be the amount of
risk we could incur without making a

303
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:55,200
lasting impact on uh our own budget if
we did get hit with say two of these in

304
00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:58,480
one year.
>> Um if you're good, you're good,

305
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:05,279
» Sabrina.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um so I mean a couple

306
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:11,279
of them in a year would not be a huge
risk for the city. $100,000 if we had to

307
00:28:08,399 --> 00:28:17,039
pay out of pocket would not be
detrimental to our fund balance. Um, if

308
00:28:14,399 --> 00:28:23,039
we had 10 in a year, then we'd be
talking a little differently. Um, but if

309
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:29,760
we, you know, based on the average, if
we had one or two in a year, um, there

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00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:31,520
really it would not affect the city as a
whole.

311
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,039
» Thank you.
>> Thank you for that, Sabrina. Any other

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00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,640
questions or comments from the
counselors? Tom Smith.

313
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:42,320
» Yeah. May uh Sabrina, I just want to
clarify this would if we did have these

314
00:28:40,399 --> 00:28:48,399
losses, they'd come out of the the fund,
the the not the our budget, but the

315
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:53,840
actual reserves, right,
>> Sabrina Stager. Thank you. Um so likely

316
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:59,279
what would happen is we would come
forward, we have actually a sir line in

317
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:04,960
our budget. We would likely charge it to
that account. And if if we were to come

318
00:29:02,399 --> 00:29:08,640
under budget in other areas or reserves
would be slightly high or sorry not

319
00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:13,440
reserves revenues would be slightly
higher than what we projected we may not

320
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:16,640
have to use reserves. So it would just
kind of depend how that year would shake

321
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,559
out.
>> Okay. Thank you.

322
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:24,399
» Thank you for that Sabrina. Any other
questions or comments from the

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00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:28,559
counselors?
>> Okay James,

324
00:29:26,399 --> 00:29:33,039
» I would be for not being at the bottom
of the list. I think we can take on some

325
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:38,159
amount of liability without taking on
the most possibly. Um like I said, we

326
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:42,640
can always change it if it's becomes a
bad idea or something or we can go

327
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:45,880
higher later or lower back down. Either
which way.

328
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:54,399
» Um Tom Smith.
>> Yeah, I I agree. I I would support I'd

329
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:57,840
go to 50,000 would be my preference.
>> Thank you for that. Um Rick Neymar, did

330
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,520
you want to say something? City
administrator

331
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:06,640
I I'll just say that we did have a
conversation about this um previously um

332
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:10,159
um Amanda, Sabrina, myself. Um and I
said I was comfortable doing the 375,

333
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:14,399
but anything beyond that I wanted to get
the um input and and guidance from

334
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:17,600
council on that. Um just again the cost
savings I think over time would be an

335
00:30:15,919 --> 00:30:20,880
appropriate thing to do, especially as
we face tight tighter and tighter

336
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:25,039
budgets moving forward. Um the other
piece of it is not being locked into

337
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:28,720
this for a long term. um each year we
look at it again um and if we decide to

338
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:34,080
make some changes for whatever reason we
still have that option to do so.

339
00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:37,440
» Okay, Stephen KN.
>> Yeah. So this item is now as for

340
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,399
discussion. So is this just for giving
the staff some guidance or are we

341
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:44,880
looking for actually a decision here
tonight?

342
00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:50,080
» Guess I'll defer to either our city
administrator or our city attorney for a

343
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:53,039
response to that question.
I mean, I think at this point it we're

344
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,480
going to take your feedback and then
we're going to budget accordingly. And

345
00:30:54,480 --> 00:31:00,320
so I think you're really you're when you
approve the budget, you're approving the

346
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:05,120
amount that we've budgeted, which would
be at the based on the feedback we're

347
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:10,240
receiving at the $50,000 rate. Um while
we are talking about about insurance and

348
00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:16,080
liability, um we are adjusting our auto
deductibles slightly as well. Um, Civic

349
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:19,600
used to offer um only that you would
have the same deductible for every

350
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:23,039
vehicle and now they've moved off that
and you can have different deductibles

351
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:28,320
for different classes of vehicles. And
so we are moving to $1,000 deductible on

352
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:34,640
our regular fleet, 2500 on squad cars
and 10,000 on vehicles with a gross

353
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:38,720
weight of 16,000 lbs or more, which are
our very, you know, kind of large

354
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:42,320
vehicles. Um
Jared and the chiefs were generally

355
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:48,559
comfortable with this. It takes a lot to
damage those large vehicles. Um,

356
00:31:46,399 --> 00:31:52,720
as you may remember from the snowplow
incident earlier this year, um,

357
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:57,360
generally we do more harm than is harm
is done to those larger vehicles. Uh, we

358
00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:01,600
had actually quite a bit of savings on
that side of things. I think it was like

359
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:04,480
somewhere around 15 to 20,000 just to do
that slight deductible change. and

360
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:08,559
looking at our claims history, there was
no question that we were going to come

361
00:32:05,919 --> 00:32:13,360
out ahead even if we did have actually a
couple claims in each category. Um, and

362
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,799
when you get into vehicles, if you we're
not at fault also, then everything gets

363
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,519
picked up by the other insurance. And so
that is one other change while we're

364
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:25,360
just talking about it that we are making
on the insurance side.

365
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:29,840
» Thank you for that, Kathy Lowendorf. Uh,
speaking of the the snowplow, I actually

366
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:33,559
didn't notice that that was on here. Is
that was that not

367
00:32:33,919 --> 00:32:41,919
Um, so this these claims were only ones
that hit the 175,000. Got it. And so

368
00:32:39,919 --> 00:32:46,000
that I think was like an $8,000 claim.
So that didn't rise to this level.

369
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:51,600
» Got it. Thank you. Um, I actually I also
would be in support of changing it to

370
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:57,519
50,000. I think that's appropriate based
on our historic claim amounts.

371
00:32:55,919 --> 00:32:59,760
» Thank you for that. Tom Smith, did you
have another comment?

372
00:32:58,159 --> 00:33:04,480
» I just had a question. Is this liability
policy a year policy or a threeyear or

373
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:10,000
you know they usually go in is it one or
three year? One year. Okay. Thank you.

374
00:33:08,159 --> 00:33:14,480
» Okay. Any other questions or comments
from the counselors

375
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:19,519
or staff?
Okay. I think we have reached somewhat

376
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:26,399
of a consensious and then if it wants to
be readressed it could be done at the

377
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:30,399
time of the budget. Item 11, city
administrator

378
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,799
Rick Neee number. Well, I'll turn it
over to you. You can work your way

379
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:36,480
through.
>> Sounds good. Thank you, mayor. Um, first

380
00:33:34,399 --> 00:33:40,720
is the updates on various city projects.
Again, it's the report is in front of

381
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:45,120
you. I won't read it word for word, but
um just a couple updates. Uh we did

382
00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:49,519
conduct the EOCC tabletop exercise um
late in August. Um more information will

383
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:53,120
be coming here to council on that um as
we do need to make some changes to

384
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:57,039
ordinances and policies. Um and I'll
give you a more in thorough update.

385
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:01,600
We're currently looking at the um
afteraction plan with the emergency

386
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:05,519
management director um to see um the
feedback. So more to come on that one.

387
00:34:03,679 --> 00:34:08,879
Um as you know, council chamber
technology upgrade. Um we're still

388
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:12,320
working through some of the processes to
utilize it. Um that will take us a

389
00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:16,079
little time with the new system and how
that's going to work. Uh but really the

390
00:34:14,399 --> 00:34:20,720
big part of it I wanted to point out
here is the sound quality. Um how much

391
00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:23,760
difference that makes. Um and also for
the assisted hearing devices that they

392
00:34:22,399 --> 00:34:27,760
are much much better than what we had
before. So just wanted to bring that up.

393
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:31,520
Fire department union negotiations
continue. That's later on on our agenda.

394
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:35,760
Uh we're meeting with them again on
September 21st.

395
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:40,000
Staff success day was last month, end of
last month. Um had a great day of

396
00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:43,440
speakers for their presentations. Um
staff were able to learn a number of

397
00:34:41,359 --> 00:34:47,119
different items. Um so they were able to
interact with each other. Um learn a

398
00:34:45,359 --> 00:34:51,520
bunch of things and have some fun. uh
mayor gave a presentation as well about

399
00:34:49,359 --> 00:34:55,760
the history. So that was wellreceived
and of course the coveted day of

400
00:34:52,960 --> 00:35:00,320
vacation. So um was done as well. Um and
then as you all know the 2027 budget

401
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:04,400
process is well underway. Um at our
October meeting is when the budget will

402
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,359
be handed out to the council members.
That's everything on that one.

403
00:35:06,504 --> 00:35:12,800
[clears throat]
Um the next one is the ATV UTV survey

404
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:17,200
results. Um, I know we're having some
technical difficulties this evening. So,

405
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:21,280
I will probably talk more about it than
I was going to otherwise. Um, for the

406
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:25,200
benefit of our audience, um, as I would
want them to be able to hear what the

407
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:29,599
results were as well. Each of you does
have a print out of the results in front

408
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:34,160
of you. Um, so we'll just go over those
um, go over those. Now, so as you may

409
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:37,920
recall, how this all started out was
back in March, there was a presentation

410
00:35:35,839 --> 00:35:42,320
done by Kulie Cruisers. Um, and there
was a request to consider opening

411
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:48,079
streets in city of an Alaska to ATV and
UTV traffic. After that meeting, I put

412
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:52,720
together a group of staff members um who
did meet um a number of times um to have

413
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:56,560
some discussion. So some of the things
that we did is we did some of our own

414
00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:00,880
research um whether it would be on
Google or just looking at other

415
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:04,240
communities as to what they were doing.
Uh we did reach out to some local

416
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:09,200
communities as well too to have some
conversations about how things have been

417
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:12,079
going with them. Um we did contact
individual um I'm going to say

418
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:16,640
Lieutenant Jake because I can't
pronounce his last name. Uh but he was

419
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:21,280
he works for the DNR and he is one that
does provide um safety and training

420
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:26,160
courses for those who drive ATVs and
UTVs um among other things. So he did a

421
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:30,880
virtual session with us um gave us a
bunch of information regarding the

422
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:33,680
operation of ATVs, UTVs um and then also
u provided us with some additional

423
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:38,079
information. So we had a good
conversation with him as well. And then

424
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:42,079
as a group we decided to go ahead and do
a um survey. And so what we're here to

425
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:46,240
talk about tonight, at least initially
anyhow, are the results of that survey.

426
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:50,079
And so again, for the sake of those
individuals who are present here or

427
00:36:47,839 --> 00:36:54,720
online, I do want to go over each of the
13 questions that were asked. Um, and so

428
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:59,040
we'll talk a little bit about that. So
the first question that was asked is, do

429
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:04,800
you live in the city of an Alaska? And
we had total of 552

430
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:09,599
responses overall. So that was the
number of people who responded to this

431
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:14,880
survey. 499 of them identified as being
a resident of city of an Alaska. So 90%

432
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:20,320
of them um identified as an Alaska. Um
and 53 or just under 10% said no. The

433
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:24,320
remaining questions that we're going to
go over are from the perspective of the

434
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:28,720
residents of the city of an Alaska. Um
while we appreciate everybody's input on

435
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:32,000
the survey, it was very helpful. Um I'm
focusing on what the city of uh the

436
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:37,680
residents of the city of an Alaska
answered to the following questions. So,

437
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:43,920
question two was, "Do you own an ATV
UTV?" Um, 423 people or 84% of those who

438
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:49,240
said they were City of Alaska residents
said yes and 15% said no.

439
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:58,480
Next question asked about their age
range. Um, as you can see here, I will

440
00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:04,400
note on each of the um,
>> sorry, Rick, your last the last uh,

441
00:38:02,079 --> 00:38:09,520
» oops, I'm sorry. Sorry.
>> Nope. That's right.

442
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:17,280
Oh, I'm sorry. 85 said no. Yes. Thank
you for that. 85 said no. 85% said no

443
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:22,800
and 15% said yes. Sorry about that. Um,
for all the remaining questions, unless

444
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:28,079
otherwise noted, all 499 residents
answered the question. Um, for this one,

445
00:38:25,839 --> 00:38:32,400
four did not answer the question, and it
was just basically the age range of

446
00:38:29,839 --> 00:38:36,400
individuals. These were predetermined
ranges that were given and they just had

447
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:42,400
to simply click on the area of where
they fell. Um, as you can see, the

448
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:47,240
largest group was 55 plus at 63%. Um,
and then various ones from there on

449
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:47,240
down.

450
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:56,160
Question four, ATV UTV routes are being
proposed within city of an Alaska limits

451
00:38:54,240 --> 00:39:01,760
and there were three options for people
to choose from. They support all roads

452
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:07,359
to be open, support limited routes, and
no roads should be opened. And

453
00:39:03,839 --> 00:39:14,119
supporting all roads to be open was 20%,
limited routes 18% and no roads should

454
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,119
be open 62%.

455
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:24,960
Uh, the next question five. If ATV you
and UTVs are allowed on streets in the

456
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:30,640
city, how do you feel about the hours of
operation between 7:30 a.m. and 1000

457
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:34,320
p.m.? Um, and again, predetermined
answers that they had to click on the

458
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:40,960
one that they agreed with. It was I
agree with the hours was 25%.

459
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:46,400
The hours are too short, 3%. The hours
are too long, 13%.

460
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:49,800
I don't want ATVs, UTVs on streets in
the city, 59%.

461
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:57,599
We also asked some open-ended questions
where they could put in their own

462
00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:03,359
information. One of those was question
number six. What do you think are the

463
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:07,280
benefits of allowing ATVs, UTVs on city
streets?

464
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:11,280
So, there was once we got the results
back, there was probably about seven

465
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:15,920
pages of individual responses from all
the all the people. Um, and so while I

466
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:19,520
did look over them all, I threw them all
into AI to summarize what are some of

467
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:23,920
the top points um that came out of
there. And so these are divided into key

468
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:30,320
themes identified by supportive
respondents and key themes identified by

469
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:34,320
opposed respondents. Again, I don't
won't read every single one of them, but

470
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:38,320
some of the supportive um respondents
increased access to local businesses and

471
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:43,200
restaurants, economic development,
tourism, um connection with other

472
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:48,400
neighboring communities, uh recreation,
family activities. Some of the opposed

473
00:40:45,839 --> 00:40:54,240
residents cited no meaningful public
benefit. Um proposal is not appropriate

474
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:58,400
for urban or suburban community. um
potential benefits would be outweighed

475
00:40:56,240 --> 00:41:01,960
by concerns related to safety, traffic,
noise, etc.

476
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:10,240
Question seven, um again, another one of
those open-ended ones. Um what do you

477
00:41:08,079 --> 00:41:16,800
think are the negatives or concerns of
allowing ATVs, UTVs on city streets?

478
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:21,599
Again, a lot of responses. I put it
through the AI and this is what it came

479
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:27,040
back as identifying themes. Um that
there is increased likelihood of crashes

480
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:32,720
with um cars and pedestrians,
failure to obey traffic laws, underage

481
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:37,760
and inexperienced operators,
traffic congestion, impaired driving,

482
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:41,359
those types of things. Uh uh wear and
tear on roadways. There were some

483
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:46,359
comments that did indicate that there
were few or no concerns if properly

484
00:41:43,359 --> 00:41:46,359
regulated.

485
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:55,680
Question eight. If the city of an Alaska
opens ATV UTV routes in city on city

486
00:41:53,280 --> 00:42:01,119
streets, how likely is it you would use
them? Again, these were predetermined.

487
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:07,040
Anywhere from very likely, likely,
unlikely to very unlikely?

488
00:42:03,839 --> 00:42:13,800
Uh, very unlikely was 68%, very likely
was 13% um with likely and unlikely at

489
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:13,800
9% each.

490
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:29,599
Question nine. Do you support ATV UTV
usage on city of an Alaska roadways?

491
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:32,480
69% don't support, 30% support. Again,
the word support and don't support were

492
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,480
listed and they had to choose one of
those.

493
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:44,560
Question 10. If ATVs, UTVs were allowed
to operate on city streets, what

494
00:42:42,319 --> 00:42:47,760
regulations or safety measures would you
support?

495
00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:51,920
Everything you see listed on there was
pre-populated. So, it was listed there

496
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:55,920
and they could check on as many of them
as they felt appropriate that they

497
00:42:53,280 --> 00:43:00,800
wanted to see as regulations. So, as you
can see, headlights, tail lights, brake

498
00:42:57,839 --> 00:43:05,359
lights, um was was the top one. Driver's
license um driver's license is not

499
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:10,000
required by the state. um insurance,
hours of operation, designated routes

500
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:17,200
and streets,
mandatory helmets, seat belts, licensing

501
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:22,079
or permitting process, noise reduction,
restricted cruising, the other category,

502
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:27,280
we'll get to that in just a moment. Um
and then none that there wouldn't be any

503
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:31,920
um regulations in place.
So the next question, question 11 was

504
00:43:29,359 --> 00:43:37,280
another open-ended question that if you
selected other in response to question

505
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:42,560
10, what other regulations or safety
measures would you support? Again,

506
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:47,440
lengthy list of responses. Uh ran it
through AI. Um there were 104 that

507
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:51,440
responded to this one. So not all 499
responded. um a lot of the same things

508
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:56,240
that were identified in previous
questions such as um

509
00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:02,160
challenging to enforce training
requirements, user fees, um blinkers,

510
00:43:59,359 --> 00:44:06,000
lights, um some indicated no amount of
regulation would make them supportive of

511
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:09,400
the proposal, um strict penalties, those
kinds of things.

512
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:18,160
Question 12.
If measures listed above were in place,

513
00:44:15,359 --> 00:44:23,760
ATVs, UTVs should be allowed on city
streets and on Alaska. Do you, and then

514
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:32,160
I gave you five options, strongly
disagree to strongly agree. And 46% were

515
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:38,000
strongly disagree, 18 almost 19% were
strongly agree. And then agree and

516
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:43,359
disagree were 13% each. And then there
was a small percentage that did not

517
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,359
either agree or disagree.

518
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:51,839
And then the last question was number
13. Provide any additional comments

519
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:58,160
related to ATVs, UTVs on city streets in
an Alaska. Again, open-ended.

520
00:44:54,480 --> 00:45:02,640
210 responded, not the full 499.
Um some of the key themes identified by

521
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:06,720
those supporting um allows neighboring
communities um to connect um just

522
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:11,680
indicating that city of Lacrosse and
Village of Pullman do not currently

523
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:16,800
allow. help local businesses, affordable
transportation option, supportive if

524
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:21,599
proper regulations in place, and then
key themes identified by those opposed.

525
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:26,319
Um, safety concerns,
um, ATVs, UTVs are designated for trail

526
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:32,000
use, noise concerns, and quiet
neighborhoods, add to issues surrounding

527
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:37,280
bikes, ebikes, scooters, e- scooters,
and no compelling reason to open streets

528
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:41,359
to ATVs, UTVs.
So, that was the the information we got

529
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:44,880
back from the survey. I guess I'll stop
there and just see if there's any

530
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:49,920
questions that anybody has.
>> Did the counselors have any questions

531
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:54,160
before Rick goes on?
>> I think you're good.

532
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:57,359
» Okay. Um, so that with so based on the
meeting we had in March, um, the

533
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:01,599
directive was to gather information and
then come back. So based on the

534
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:05,119
information that staff have has gathered
and based on the survey results that

535
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:09,440
we've received um from the staff's
perspective, we don't have any plan to

536
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:15,000
move forward with any proposal to open
any of the city streets unless we are

537
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,000
directed by council to do so.

538
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:22,160
» Thank you. Do the counselors have any
comments or questions? Stephen not.

539
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:32,079
» Yeah. So a couple of items. when uh this
survey was uh issued, did they have the

540
00:46:27,119 --> 00:46:35,680
informative information that the UTV ATV
uh personnel that would be uh and

541
00:46:33,839 --> 00:46:40,560
vehicles that would be using the streets
if approved are going along at the same

542
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:45,040
speed limit as everybody else already
have some of the safety features that

543
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:48,400
are that are included in this as would
you agree or disagree on that? I mean,

544
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:51,839
some of these they have to have already
or they won't be street legal. So, I'm

545
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,960
wondering if this was all explained
ahead of time because otherwise this

546
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:59,599
might actually be leading to some
uninformed uh decisions being made by

547
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:05,200
the uh personnel that replied to the
survey. I do want to put out I I do not

548
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:09,760
have an ATV or UTV. I've never had one.
I don't intend to ever have one. Uh I

549
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:14,560
don't have any friends of mine who have
one that would be street legal. Uh but

550
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:20,880
I'm kind of leaning towards,
you know, the freedom element of this,

551
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:26,000
too. And uh I I I'm always reluctant to
restrict people from exercising certain

552
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:29,680
freedoms, especially when I'm not
convinced that this survey was performed

553
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:34,240
in a way that was totally informative to
the people who responded to it. I'm in

554
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,560
I'm going to guess the way I look at
this, the way I'm seeing it now is they

555
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,880
were thinking these these will be
crawling along at 20 miles an hour. They

556
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:47,040
won't have any of the safety features on
it and all that would be not true.

557
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:51,040
So, there was an introductory paragraph
that just advised them that there was a

558
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:56,319
request um to open city streets um to
ATV UTV traffic. Um that

559
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,640
uh I should pull it up here and read it,
but there was an instructor paragraph

560
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:02,319
just indicating that they are not
currently allowed um and we're looking

561
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:05,760
for feedback in regards to how to
proceed on next steps and that this

562
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:10,560
information would be going to staff and
to council for considering next steps.

563
00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:15,119
So, we did not go into any preconceived
notions. Part of it was because at the

564
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:19,280
state level, not all of these things are
required in the first place. Um, and so

565
00:48:17,359 --> 00:48:22,480
we thought if we started doing that, it
was going to get so kind of in the

566
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:26,319
weeds, so to speak. So, we were trying
to figure out what is kind of the pulse

567
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:30,000
of the residents at this point in time
based on what they know.

568
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:34,079
» Okay? Because, um, my I brought this up
when we first discussed this. You know,

569
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:37,920
I have a lawn tractor and, uh, it's
street legal. It's got the blinkers.

570
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:41,520
It's got the the warning triangle. It's
got the headlights. It's got the tail

571
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:45,040
lights. Got the brake lights. All that.
And I can legally go down the street

572
00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:50,559
right now and I'd probably be cruising
along at a maximum rate of about 15

573
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:56,960
miles an hour. And that's legal. Um, so
I'm just trying to take that as an

574
00:48:53,280 --> 00:49:00,720
example and extend it out to UTV, ATV.
And I'm just not getting there on why

575
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:05,520
this would be restricted from them
because they would actually be flowing

576
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:10,400
with traffic. Um, and again, some of
these things that are on here, um, such

577
00:49:08,559 --> 00:49:13,839
as having the lights and what have you,
they would already have to have or they

578
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:17,440
won't be street legal.
>> So, I think we should clarify that they

579
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:21,119
aren't automatically street legal unless
somebody takes action to allow them. So,

580
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:24,079
by state law, they are not allowed to be
driven on roadways unless a municipality

581
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,520
takes action,
>> but they would have to become street

582
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:31,359
legal to do so. Well, the definition of
street legal is what each municipality

583
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:34,640
makes it because a state has regulations
that doesn't necessarily require

584
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:38,079
everything that's on this list. Like
licensing is not required in order to be

585
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:41,280
drive one of these down the street down
the roadway. Um I'd have to go back and

586
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:45,200
look at what some of the other seat
belts I don't believe are um so

587
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:48,160
insurance is not required. So there's a
number of things that aren't required at

588
00:49:46,319 --> 00:49:51,839
the state level that municipalities
would really have to address if they

589
00:49:49,599 --> 00:49:56,240
choose um to make sure that they're
being operated in what's deemed to be a

590
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:59,599
safe manner by that municipality. Okay.
And we could do that.

591
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:03,040
» By ordinance, you can enact something
>> because I'm leaning actually that I

592
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:08,800
would like to see this move forward. And
again, I don't have any skin in this

593
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:13,520
game. Uh I I don't ever intend to, but I
just uh you know, one of the it's a very

594
00:50:11,839 --> 00:50:16,559
common phrase now that some of you may
have heard already. You know, a true

595
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:20,640
democracy is two wolves and a sheep
having a vote on what's for dinner. And

596
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:24,240
u I'm kind of looking at this in this
manner right here when I'm seeing these

597
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:28,079
charts especially when I think you know
I don't know that everyone who responded

598
00:50:25,599 --> 00:50:33,200
this was fully informed before they
before they responded. So um I don't

599
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:37,359
know I might be a person all alone on
this one but uh I still my conscience is

600
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:42,880
saying that we should continue to move
forward on it.

601
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:47,520
» Thank you for that Stephen. Um I'm going
to go ahead and speak on this topic. I

602
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:53,440
do own a UTV. Um, I would like to see
our streets open to them. And I also do

603
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:59,839
think that this survey wasn't really the
best way to gauge the opinion of our

604
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:03,760
community. Um, because a lot of the
people, I mean, just in this discussion

605
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:07,680
that we saw right here between Rick and
Stephen, there is a lot of

606
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:12,079
misconceptions and misunderstandings in
the community about the what the rules

607
00:51:09,599 --> 00:51:15,760
are. And what the rules actually are is
that our community, the city of an

608
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:23,359
Alaska, if it so chooses to move
forward, can put whatever restrictions

609
00:51:18,319 --> 00:51:29,280
on the UTVs or ATVs that the community
would like to see. Um, in my opinion,

610
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:34,720
the the most successful way for
consistency and enforcement is if we

611
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:39,599
mimic what our surrounding communities
have. The Lacrosse County has approved

612
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:43,839
this and in the townships it is
approved. In West Salem, it's improved.

613
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:50,079
Sparta, many of the surrounding
communities have their roads open to the

614
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:53,359
UTVs. Um, and so to be consistent with
that would probably make the most sense

615
00:51:51,599 --> 00:51:59,280
to me because it's difficult for people
coming from outside in to know if there

616
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:03,920
is a change in the rules. Um, but I
think if you did a similar survey and

617
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:08,000
you did it for say motorcyclists,
probably just as many people would say

618
00:52:05,839 --> 00:52:11,200
they don't like motorcyclists. They
think people should have to wear a

619
00:52:09,359 --> 00:52:16,640
helmet even though it's not required by
law. Um, I mean, you can't wear a seat

620
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:20,400
belt on a on a motorcycle, so that
couldn't be it. But, I mean, all the

621
00:52:18,559 --> 00:52:25,280
similar things. And I think consistently
through my service here, I've always

622
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:29,520
promoted as many forms of transportation
as what we can allow people. And the

623
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:35,359
fact of the matter is, what people think
of as an old-fashioned ATV is not what

624
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:39,920
these modern UTVs are. People are
spending $40,000 on these vehicles, and

625
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:44,559
they're certainly able to go in the flow
of traffic, and nobody is asking to go

626
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:47,920
on the numbered highways. Um, but that's
just my opinion, but whatever the

627
00:52:46,319 --> 00:52:52,079
council decides will be the ruling
tonight. Any other questions or

628
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:55,119
comments?
Kathy,

629
00:52:53,200 --> 00:53:01,440
» I do wish that we had a larger sample
size. Um, I think that the survey, um, I

630
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:07,760
personally almost missed it because it
fell out of my water bill when I got it

631
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:12,160
and I I am one that I keep the bill and
I toss everything else. So, I would like

632
00:53:10,319 --> 00:53:18,720
to know, you know, I I'm concerned that
maybe we didn't get enough residents.

633
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:24,720
Um, however, that said, the ones that
did respond overwhelmingly are against

634
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:29,440
allowing it. So, um, it's it's
difficult. I I also am about freedoms

635
00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:34,079
and if you you know want to be able to
if you have access to be able to drive

636
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:40,160
this or bicycles or whatever. Um I have
also seen though people driving golf

637
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:44,880
carts and UTVs, ATVs in smaller
communities and are making very poor

638
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:48,960
decisions with them from going from
their house to the bar back to their

639
00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:53,760
house to the gas station to grab a
six-pack cuz they ran out. it's really

640
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:57,280
easy and convenient to get not have to
get behind the wheel of the car because

641
00:53:54,960 --> 00:54:01,119
they think it's different. So, those are
those are just some some concerns that I

642
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:06,319
would personally have. Um, but that
said, I'm not necessarily against um

643
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:12,839
opening our roads to additional forms of
traffic.

644
00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:12,839
» Thank you, Kathy. Jim Bash.

645
00:54:13,422 --> 00:54:20,160
[clears throat]
>> Well, I think the survey did a good job.

646
00:54:17,119 --> 00:54:25,440
I think that uh I've from the people
that I've heard that uh they really

647
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:29,599
don't want them because they perhaps
they don't understand. Mostly what you

648
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:35,359
hear are the noise and the accidents
that you get into when you see it on the

649
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:42,000
news. Now, having dealt with uh motor
vehicle accidents for 30 years, uh ATVs,

650
00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:46,240
you can usually get you're pretty well
hurt when you get in an accident. Same

651
00:54:44,319 --> 00:54:50,160
thing with motorcycles. So, I don't
think having seat belt requirements and

652
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:54,720
helmets on an ATV, if you don't have
them on a motorcycle, is certainly not

653
00:54:52,160 --> 00:55:01,040
going to last on a ATV.
But, uh, I don't think we have enough

654
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:06,480
information right now to say that we
want ATVs in the city of an Alaska. Uh,

655
00:55:04,319 --> 00:55:10,319
there are too many variables. If you get
into an accident and you don't tell them

656
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:15,119
to have insurance, you're putting the
other person at risk. Uh, you need a

657
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:21,599
license. And we're having issues right
now with razor scooters and ebikes. Uh

658
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:26,319
kids on the street. Uh I often see
people doing a uh children on razor

659
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:33,200
motor uh scooters going through stop
signs at intersections. So,

660
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:38,240
uh, until I get more information on how
we can educate the public, I don't

661
00:55:35,359 --> 00:55:42,559
think, uh, right now is a good idea to
start allowing other vehicles on the

662
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:46,960
road when we haven't completely figured
out how we're going to handle e-

663
00:55:43,839 --> 00:55:52,480
scooters and ebikes and children on
bikes uh, riding on the street uh, speed

664
00:55:49,839 --> 00:55:56,400
limits of 20 25 miles an hour. They they
shouldn't be on the road and they do go

665
00:55:54,720 --> 00:56:01,280
that fast. You could make a face, but
they do go that fast. I see it on Oak

666
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:07,760
Avenue North, the kids going to school.
Uh they do proceed too fast and they've

667
00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:14,400
got their ebikes and they are exceeding
the speed limit. Um and I I I get a

668
00:56:12,559 --> 00:56:19,280
little nervous when I see these at these
intersections with these kids going to

669
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:25,920
school and I do see teenage drivers on
their cars doing rolling stops all the

670
00:56:21,839 --> 00:56:30,400
time. So until I get more answers, um I
would not be in for and not be forward

671
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:34,160
for us, not moving forward.
>> Thank you. Stephen, we I'm going to do

672
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:38,559
first time for everyone first and then
I'll come back to you. James, do you

673
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:41,680
have any comments or questions?
>> Uh at this time,

674
00:56:40,079 --> 00:56:45,440
» thank you. Tom Smith, would you like to
say anything?

675
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:50,000
» Yeah, I'm I'm I'm supportive of it with
some restrictions um and a little bit

676
00:56:47,839 --> 00:56:55,200
more information before we charge down
that way. My concern is how do you

677
00:56:52,319 --> 00:56:59,359
enforce some of this stuff? Uh that that
will be a challenge I think for our

678
00:56:56,799 --> 00:57:03,119
police officers and stuff because I see
kids running all over the place too with

679
00:57:01,599 --> 00:57:07,920
these things. They're really flying on
the sidewalk and the street and uh it's

680
00:57:05,839 --> 00:57:12,079
a it's a hazard and I have a lot of
neighbors that complain about the noise

681
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:16,720
and I get that and motorcycles are the
same thing. But I I think we could

682
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:22,160
probably come up with some kind of uh
policies or restrictions or create our

683
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:26,160
own rules to do support because there is
an avenue of people who are supportive

684
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:30,559
of this and like it. I don't think it
shows in the survey as well and maybe

685
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:35,680
that's part of our problem is our survey
isn't broad enough. I don't know. Um but

686
00:57:33,599 --> 00:57:39,920
I I I'm supportive of it. I don't want
to end it, but I think we have to learn

687
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:45,359
more about it and we have to decide how
we can best manage it. Thank you.

688
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:48,559
» Thank you for that, Tom. With Tom's
comment, I mean, we do have the chief in

689
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:53,440
the audience. Chief, would you like to
comment on your um position on this

690
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:56,680
topic?
>> Thank you.

691
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:07,200
» So, I'm not overly opposed to it. Um but
I am concerned about the number of

692
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:14,079
people in the community that are opposed
to it. I I feel like it is going to lead

693
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:19,200
to um quite a few complaints for us. So
I think that we if we are going to move

694
00:58:16,319 --> 00:58:26,240
forward with it, it needs to be um
regulated and that needs to be very well

695
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:30,880
thought out. Um I'm also not really too
excited about having ATV routes. I think

696
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:36,640
if we're going to open it, then we
should open everything that the law

697
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:39,599
would allow us to. um simply because I
think it's going to be difficult if we

698
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:43,760
just have one or two routes through
town. Our residents are going to want to

699
00:58:41,839 --> 00:58:49,440
drive to those routes, you know, that
that live maybe four or five blocks away

700
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:55,359
from that. So, um if we're going to go
in that direction, I I would like to see

701
00:58:52,720 --> 00:59:00,319
something very thorough. Um, but I I
think based on the results of what I'm

702
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:04,160
seeing in the survey, that is going to
upset

703
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:07,599
some of our our residents and we're
probably going to have to deal with

704
00:59:05,119 --> 00:59:13,040
those complaints as well.
I definitely would like to see everyone

705
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:18,559
licensed. Um, I do have concerns about
ATVs more so than UTVs. I I don't think

706
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:23,440
there's as much there to protect
somebody. Um, so that would all need to

707
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:28,000
be looked into.
Thank you, Chief. Okay, Stephen not.

708
00:59:26,079 --> 00:59:32,000
» Yeah, just final comments here. So,
yeah, as far as the survey is going, I I

709
00:59:30,799 --> 00:59:35,359
definitely think we need to listen to
all voices, and this is where I'm

710
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:38,960
looking at compromise, and I'm
especially looking at the two pages that

711
00:59:37,359 --> 00:59:43,040
talk about if they were allowed, what
would you want? And then the other

712
00:59:40,799 --> 00:59:45,520
responses on the next pages. So, you
know, like the chief was saying,

713
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:48,559
absolutely. I think there should be
licensing requirement with the driver's

714
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:52,160
license, the headlights, the tail
lights, the blinkers, the brake lights.

715
00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:56,000
I mean, these would be motor vehicles on
the road, and I think they would have to

716
00:59:53,839 --> 01:00:02,799
come mostly within compliance of that.
I'd like to personally see insurance

717
00:59:59,119 --> 01:00:08,480
um yeah, um helmets or seat belts we can
have a discussion on, especially if

718
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:13,760
they're under 18 in there. Uh but um and
then I think so I think there's a way to

719
01:00:11,359 --> 01:00:18,240
get there to where maybe we don't make
everybody happy, but at the same time,

720
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:23,040
we achieve a compromise that serves the
community the best. I I think that your

721
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:26,400
example with the motorcycles is is
spoton. If we were to do this for

722
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:30,079
motorcycles, I almost guarantee you
would get the same results. Those people

723
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:34,720
who have own motorcycles or know people
who have motorcycles and their family

724
01:00:32,079 --> 01:00:39,119
would respond yes. And the folks who
don't would say no, and it would

725
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:44,319
probably be about the same percentages.
And uh I just uh I you know, folks, we

726
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:48,000
got to let people live their lives. And
uh I think there's a compromise here

727
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:53,480
that can be made.
>> Thank you. Any other people want to make

728
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,480
a last comment?

729
01:00:54,000 --> 01:01:02,880
Um Amanda Jackson,
>> I just wanted to make two comments um

730
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:06,480
from a legal perspective. So one is
is while I understand the analogy to

731
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:10,079
motorcycles, there are still some
differentiations. For example, if you

732
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:13,359
drive a motorcycle intoxicated, you will
lose your license. If you drive a UTV

733
01:01:11,839 --> 01:01:18,079
intoxicated, you will not lose your
license. And so UTVs are not treated

734
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:22,960
equally as vehicles under the law. So
just that's something to consider. The

735
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:26,559
second is is when you start to deal with
peacemeal regulation like this where the

736
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:30,319
state chooses not to maybe regulate
something on a holistic level then we

737
01:01:28,799 --> 01:01:32,799
start to have municipalities come up
with their own rules. And I'm going to

738
01:01:31,359 --> 01:01:37,119
say this again next month because we are
going to talk about ebikes and e-

739
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:40,880
scooters. Um, but when that happens,
then we have to be really careful about

740
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:44,640
communicating, right? Because if our
regulations for a UTV are a little bit

741
01:01:43,359 --> 01:01:49,040
different than the counties or they're a
little bit different than West Salem's,

742
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:52,000
um, it gets challenging for the person
using the UTV to understand what they

743
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:56,480
need to do when they come to their
community. And so, you are likely going

744
01:01:54,240 --> 01:02:00,400
to have to pay for signage. We're going
to have to be really clear on how to

745
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:04,240
find these rules and regulations. Again,
I'm not I'm not against them, but I just

746
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:08,079
want to make sure that we if this is the
route we're going to go down, that we

747
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:11,200
think these things through. Um, and so
really thinking about, okay, what are

748
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:14,960
the requirements that we want in the
city of an Alaska? And then how do we

749
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:19,280
communicate those out to the people that
will use them?

750
01:02:17,839 --> 01:02:25,520
» Thank you, Amanda. Is there any other
staff that wants to comment?

751
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:28,640
Okay. Um, we'll go well, let's let Katie
speak first and then we'll go to Timberg

752
01:02:27,119 --> 01:02:32,559
next.
Um, I just wanted to address that

753
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:36,880
comment related to the amount of
response that was received. I can tell

754
01:02:34,799 --> 01:02:43,440
you that this was an extraordinary
amount of population that responded. Um,

755
01:02:40,079 --> 01:02:48,240
compare it to my 2022 community survey
where I had double the amounts of

756
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:56,079
responses, but I had said individual
postcards, two mailings, um, Facebook

757
01:02:52,720 --> 01:03:00,720
notifications heavily heavily promoting
this and we gave over an extended period

758
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:06,000
of time. So, the fact that we were able
to achieve this using water bills and a

759
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:12,559
single survey on our website these
results, it is notable. um that we got

760
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:17,520
the response rate that we did. So, I
don't want to underwhelm you with that

761
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:22,559
number because yes, it may seem very
small, but based on how the city has

762
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:28,000
received comments on surveys in the
past, it's very remarkable that we were

763
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:32,319
able to achieve such results that we
did. Thank you.

764
01:03:30,559 --> 01:03:37,359
» Thank you, Katie. We're going to go to
Chief again now and then we'll see who

765
01:03:35,039 --> 01:03:41,599
else wants to speak.
>> Thank you. I would just ask that if we

766
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:48,880
do move forward, everybody understand we
we we have a limited amount of

767
01:03:43,839 --> 01:03:53,440
resources. So the regulation um and uh
responding to potential complaints or

768
01:03:51,119 --> 01:03:58,640
enforcement activities by the police
department, we will need patience with

769
01:03:55,680 --> 01:04:03,200
that because the emergency calls for
service will have to take priority over

770
01:04:00,319 --> 01:04:07,599
that.
>> Thank you, Chief. Anyone else? Tom Smith

771
01:04:05,839 --> 01:04:11,039
and then Kathy you can go next.
>> I guess this is a question for Rick and

772
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:14,720
we had talked once before about maybe
talking to the schools school district

773
01:04:12,799 --> 01:04:18,160
on Alaska and Homeman and you know
getting the student perspective and the

774
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:21,039
school perspective. Have we done
anything with that with ATVs and that

775
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:24,960
kind of stuff?
>> Not with ATVs UTVs. We're doing that

776
01:04:23,119 --> 01:04:28,160
with the bikes and the ecooters and
those kinds of things but we have not

777
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:31,920
with ATVs UTVs now. Okay.
>> You know people are required to take

778
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:35,280
certain training um in order to drive
them anyhow. Um, so there is a

779
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:38,720
requirement already at the state level
for that.

780
01:04:35,839 --> 01:04:43,760
» Okay. Okay. Got it. Thank you.
>> Thank you for that question, Kathy.

781
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:48,720
» Um, just to Chief Berg's point, um,
assuming that we're already doing some

782
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:52,640
sort of monitoring of whatever trails
are available. Do do we have the

783
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:58,079
equipment available at the city level
for an officer to be able to go um say

784
01:04:55,760 --> 01:05:03,440
on a UTV and go on the trails to make
sure that they're nobody's doing

785
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:06,799
anything nefarious out and out there.
>> Well, it wouldn't be this would be on

786
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:12,480
the city streets.
>> Um but the city does have a UTV. Chief,

787
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:16,960
I'll let you answer. Sorry.
>> Yes, we have equipment available to to

788
01:05:15,119 --> 01:05:23,200
do enforcement. I don't see that as
being a problem. It's just a matter of

789
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:26,160
the um promptness or the attention might
not be as high as some of the

790
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:29,400
expectations could be.
>> Thank you.

791
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:35,440
» Okay. Any other questions from anybody
at all? Stephen, not

792
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:41,599
» just comment on this. So, yeah, looking
up with what Amanda said. Yeah, the um

793
01:05:39,359 --> 01:05:46,240
there's no loss of license for a DUI
with an ATV or UTV. However, there are

794
01:05:44,319 --> 01:05:50,559
fines, jail time, permanent mark on your
record. I would like to also, if we

795
01:05:48,559 --> 01:05:55,760
proceed with this, try to petition
through our own state representative and

796
01:05:53,280 --> 01:06:00,160
senator or legislator and a rep and
senator to try to get that law changed

797
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:04,000
in Wisconsin to where if we're going to
allow them on public streets that they

798
01:06:01,599 --> 01:06:08,960
will lose their license for an OWI
conviction.

799
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:13,920
Okay, thank you. Are there more comments
or is the council ready to

800
01:06:12,319 --> 01:06:18,079
make some kind of a or what are you
asking for tonight, Rick? What do you

801
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:21,039
need tonight from the council?
>> What I'm gathering so far based on the

802
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:24,640
comments received that there is an
appetite to move forward with something.

803
01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:27,359
And what that is basically I think
you're looking to staff to come back

804
01:06:25,839 --> 01:06:31,680
with something is what I'm taking away
from the conversation. Um I don't know

805
01:06:29,599 --> 01:06:36,400
that I need a formal motion unless legal
thinks we do. But um if and correct me

806
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:39,359
if I'm wrong, but I get the impression
we want you want to look at something

807
01:06:38,079 --> 01:06:45,760
and you want something brought back to
take a look at. Is that fair to say?

808
01:06:42,799 --> 01:06:49,039
» Other than Alder Bash, of course. Okay.
So,

809
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:54,000
I guess that's up to the council to
decide if you want staff to put together

810
01:06:51,599 --> 01:06:58,640
something for consideration. It can
still be voted down later, but at least

811
01:06:55,920 --> 01:07:02,720
to try to move forward or not be a
council decision. So,

812
01:07:01,359 --> 01:07:06,160
» and the other question is, you know, are
you looking, we talked about education

813
01:07:04,319 --> 01:07:10,160
to the public? I mean, are we looking to
have some kind of a open forum where the

814
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:13,280
public can come in and talk? I I'm not
suggesting it. I'm just asking is that

815
01:07:11,839 --> 01:07:17,640
that was something that sounded like I
heard from a couple members as well too.

816
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:23,960
» I guess I'll leave it to the council to
comment.

817
01:07:24,559 --> 01:07:29,200
» Mayor Tom Smith.
>> Yeah, I would I would say that we should

818
01:07:27,359 --> 01:07:34,079
go ahead and pursue and and uh do some
more research, find some al alternatives

819
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:38,760
and issues and bring them back to us and
let us take a look at that's my thought.

820
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:45,680
Okay, James,
>> I also would like to see something

821
01:07:43,039 --> 01:07:51,520
brought back that we could go through
and maybe add or subtract from it, but

822
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:58,760
not drop it here. I'd rather see it keep
going.

823
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:58,760
» Okay, any other questions or comments?

824
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:06,000
» All right, you good, Rick?
>> Yes. The only thing I will say is um

825
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:10,000
this might be an after the budget um
that come when it comes back. Um I don't

826
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:13,520
expect it to be in October, November
just because of what's going on right

827
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:18,239
now with budgeting process. So um it'll
be something that'll be brought back um

828
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:21,279
later this year, early next.
>> Thank you.

829
01:08:19,440 --> 01:08:24,640
» Thank you for that good discussion.
We'll head on to item C then, Rick, if

830
01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:29,679
you want to keep going.
>> Thank you, mayor. Um so the next thing

831
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:33,920
on the um agenda is in regards to the
drift link program. So just as a little

832
01:08:32,239 --> 01:08:38,960
background, I know there was a memo in
your packet as well. So um the current

833
01:08:37,440 --> 01:08:43,279
contract that we have with Running
Incorporated um who is the um vendor who

834
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:48,239
does operate our drift link or our
shared ride program does expire at the

835
01:08:45,839 --> 01:08:54,319
end of this year. So earlier this year
we did issue a request for proposal RFP.

836
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:59,359
Um and we did receive one response and
that was from Running Incorporated.

837
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:02,319
I will preface any conversation tonight
with we have been very happy with

838
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:06,239
running incorporated and the job that
they have done running our program. So

839
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:12,640
there are no concerns or questions or
issues there. Um with the proposal

840
01:09:09,839 --> 01:09:17,199
coming back um not unexpectedly there
were increases in the rates under the

841
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:21,839
contract. Um they were higher than it
maybe anticipated. And so obviously as

842
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:26,239
you all know we are in this um program
with both the village of Holman um and

843
01:09:24,159 --> 01:09:28,880
the village of West Salem. Um so they
are also having very similar

844
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:35,040
conversations with their boards and
councils just as we are tonight. So as

845
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:38,400
it shows in the um me memo is that there
was a a pretty significant increase in

846
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:44,080
the rate that would be under the
contract. You'll also notice attached to

847
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:48,080
the me memo there was some proposals and
Sabrina is going to go over those here

848
01:09:46,239 --> 01:09:52,960
um in just a moment and explain what the
impact that will have on the city of an

849
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:57,840
Alaska. um what ultimately the process
is, just to give everybody a heads up.

850
01:09:55,360 --> 01:10:02,560
So, the public transit committee did
approve the RFP. It was sent out. They

851
01:10:00,719 --> 01:10:07,120
had a meeting um two weeks ago, I
believe it was, um and discussed the

852
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:12,560
response and some potential for options.
This now comes back here to um the

853
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:16,000
council again. Each um township is
having or village, I'm sorry, is having

854
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:20,159
a conversation with their board. They
will then go back to the special public

855
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:24,400
transit meeting on Monday evening to
talk about the positions from each of

856
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:28,239
the three different municipalities.
From there, they will forward a

857
01:10:26,239 --> 01:10:32,640
recommendation back to their respective
boards and council for final approval of

858
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:36,400
whatever that recommendation would be.
Um so there is a little bit of a process

859
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:40,560
that we need to go through here yet. Um
but what we're looking for tonight is

860
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:44,480
your representatives which are Alder not
Bash and now going to be the new um

861
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:47,520
Alder who is going to be starting
tomorrow. Um we'll have that discussion

862
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:52,159
with the public transit committee
meeting committee on Monday. So that's

863
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:55,040
kind of the process we're looking at.
I'll turn it over to Sabrina now to talk

864
01:10:53,679 --> 01:10:58,719
a little bit about the proposals that
are in your packet as well.

865
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:02,640
» Thank you for that introduction Rick.
Sabrina,

866
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:08,800
» thank you. Um, so the way the funding
works for the share ride, so the share

867
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:16,080
ride we get our total contract amount,
which that was the huge increase of 19%.

868
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:22,960
So it's going to $4147
per hour. So the way our share right is

869
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:28,480
set up is that the contractor can do up
to 31,64

870
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:34,480
hours for the entire year. So, when we
figure out how much that's going to

871
01:11:30,480 --> 01:11:37,480
cost, um the cost would go to 1.3
1,313,118.

872
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:50,159
For 2026, that number was $1,97,000.
So, that's a huge increase there, just

873
01:11:46,159 --> 01:11:58,719
the the total contract price. Um from
there we then running collects all of

874
01:11:54,320 --> 01:12:05,840
the shares sorry all of the fairs. So if
someone um pays for a ride which they

875
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:12,320
all have to um if they pay for the ride
running keeps that money and then they

876
01:12:08,159 --> 01:12:17,600
submit us a bill monthly. So
from there I typically budget some

877
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:25,120
writership revenue. So, under the first
proposal um that was given to you, I um

878
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:33,679
projected 240,000, which is very similar
to what we received in 2025. And we're

879
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:39,199
on par to hit that in 2026.
From there, we subtract that out and

880
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:45,840
then that's our total contract cost.
Then we are able to from that dollar

881
01:12:42,480 --> 01:12:51,280
figure we're able to um use federal
dollars up to 50%.

882
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:58,920
Now the federal funding has gone down
over the years. Um we are for 2026 we

883
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:58,920
got $424,771.

884
01:13:00,159 --> 01:13:07,640
For 2027 the split letter that we
received from the state was $412,845.

885
01:13:08,719 --> 01:13:18,880
we can dip into another year's grant to
help pay for some of the costs to get us

886
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:26,159
to that full 50%. And that's what we did
in um proposal B and C that is in front

887
01:13:22,239 --> 01:13:31,880
of you. But in proposal A um I kept it
as the amount that we received. So that

888
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:31,880
$412,845.

889
01:13:33,440 --> 01:13:42,400
Then we also receive state shares. So
that number also has been kind of

890
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:48,880
decreasing over the last several years.
Um I proposed potentially that we would

891
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:53,960
get around $200,000 from the state which
then leaves this remaining $460,273.

892
01:13:55,520 --> 01:14:01,080
That number for 2026 was $252,492.

893
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:13,280
So, a large increase from 2026 to 2027.
From there, the way we calculate how

894
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:19,440
much each municipality pays is by
contract. Um, and that contract does say

895
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:25,040
that they each municipality pays the
percentage of ridership for the months

896
01:14:21,679 --> 01:14:29,040
June, July, and August. When we prepared
the budget, we did not have August

897
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:34,239
numbers yet, and we actually still
don't. Um so we used April, May and

898
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:41,040
June.
So the percentage wrership um for the

899
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:47,920
village of Holman was 25.26%
and the percentage for West Salem was

900
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:55,120
15,000 or sorry 15.72%
and then the remaining 59.01%

901
01:14:52,320 --> 01:15:03,040
for the city of an Alaska. So, what that
means for the city is that we would see

902
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:07,760
an increase to our local share of I
don't have the exact number here. I

903
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:11,560
think it's on this other page. Um, give
me one second here.

904
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:22,040
So, that our our share would be
$271,629.

905
01:15:24,239 --> 01:15:34,239
for the city for 2026
it was 140,000. So that is a huge

906
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:40,560
increase of $130,000
to continue to operate the share ride as

907
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:48,640
is. So doing this we then came up with a
couple of options. So those are

908
01:15:44,159 --> 01:15:54,560
proposals B and C. Proposal B is what
was presented to the public transit

909
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:59,920
committee where we would use more
federal dollars to bring the cost down

910
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:07,679
to the municipalities
and then that cost for 2027

911
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:14,760
approximately again assuming ridership
would stay the same would go to

912
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:14,760
1999,357.

913
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:22,960
So quite a big savings by using more
federal dollars.

914
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:28,239
Proposal C,
what that did is we we increase this was

915
01:16:26,239 --> 01:16:35,199
a recommendation from the public transit
committee that we increase ridership the

916
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:43,920
ridership fair by $1.
So all fairs would increase to $1. Our

917
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:50,480
current fair is $4 or $450. $450. $4 if
you're a senior or student. So that

918
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:57,120
would go to $550 and $5.
So to project this out, I did use um the

919
01:16:54,480 --> 01:17:01,440
fact that ridership would stay the same,
that it would stay stagnant um that we

920
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:05,520
would still have the same amount of
rides because we just don't know. We

921
01:17:04,353 --> 01:17:14,080
[snorts] don't know if that would
decrease wrership or not. But if we were

922
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:23,040
to increase um the fairs by that $1
and use up to the 50% match, that would

923
01:17:17,679 --> 01:17:27,600
bring the city share um down to
170,542

924
01:17:25,679 --> 01:17:31,679
or just the share ride, the drift link
program.

925
01:17:29,679 --> 01:17:40,159
The other things that are in your packet
tonight is we did also get information

926
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:48,199
from the MTU and the MTU cost is going
up 48%. Um

927
01:17:43,440 --> 01:17:48,199
for 2026 it was $54,431

928
01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:54,199
and for 2027 it is 80,421.

929
01:17:54,480 --> 01:18:03,920
So, those are the figures. Um, where
we're currently at. Um, what questions

930
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:10,560
do you have,
>> Sabrina? Can you say how many years it

931
01:18:06,719 --> 01:18:12,800
has been since the MTU has had a raise?
>> The MTU.

932
01:18:11,679 --> 01:18:17,840
» The MTU.
>> Um, it's been since COVID. So, they've

933
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:22,080
been keeping the cost down. I believe
they were using ARPA dollars that they

934
01:18:20,239 --> 01:18:28,159
had received to keep the cost down to
the local municipalities.

935
01:18:24,239 --> 01:18:34,239
So since 2021, I mean that's as far as I
have up here on my spreadsheet. Um but

936
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:42,320
we were at like 52,000 and so we went
from 52,000 and in 2026 it was 54,431.

937
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:44,719
So we have not seen an increase for the
MTU.

938
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:49,440
» Yeah. And I just want to bring that up
because I do sit on the MTU board and

939
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:54,080
they have not raised that for a very
long time. So while the number does seem

940
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:59,360
kind of large, it is also because they
were using ARPA funding for all the

941
01:18:56,400 --> 01:19:04,719
public transit um and now they're just
trying to get back to kind of balancing

942
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:11,199
their cost same as us. Okay. Councelor's
question. Stephen KN.

943
01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:17,040
» Yeah. So, um, again, I'm on that public
transit committee, and after we,

944
01:19:14,239 --> 01:19:23,920
uh, adjourned, I talked to Sabrina about
another potential option. Um, and that's

945
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:27,280
that, uh, we increased the fairs by
$1.50, which in my mind is still a

946
01:19:25,679 --> 01:19:33,280
bargain price. We have not increased
fairs for for the uh, Drift Link/Share

947
01:19:31,440 --> 01:19:38,800
uh, since at least 2020 is my
understanding. Might be 2019. So, and of

948
01:19:36,239 --> 01:19:42,960
course since that time our country uh
you know we had about 30% inflation from

949
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:47,360
2021 to 24 and we've been averaging
somewhere I don't know just shy of three

950
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:52,719
or a little over three in the in the uh
last year and so far this year. So

951
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:57,679
that's still pretty substantial and we
user should expect some of that to have

952
01:19:54,719 --> 01:20:04,560
to happen. So by by but but by by going
up to $150 and the potential of not

953
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:10,560
renewing the MTU contract, we could
actually get this to where the the share

954
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:14,560
ride uh might be able to be affordable
at least for a couple more years. Now

955
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:20,000
why would I be more concerned about
shareide than MTU? It's because MTU

956
01:20:17,679 --> 01:20:24,080
provides a service that cannot be
duplicated by anybody else.

957
01:20:22,159 --> 01:20:28,960
uh folks who in an Alaska might be using
the MTU could have the option of using

958
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:32,719
an Uber for instance. Folks who are
using the share ride, quite a few of

959
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:37,440
them either through age or disability
are mobility challenged. Uh those share

960
01:20:35,440 --> 01:20:40,800
ride drivers are able to go right up to
the door and assist them into their

961
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:45,199
vehicle. They have vehicles that are
equipped that can assist them as well if

962
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:50,159
they have special equipment. They don't
have that option on the MTU. So, uh,

963
01:20:48,480 --> 01:20:55,360
that's something else I'm looking at
possibly entertaining when we meet

964
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:59,679
again. Um, and if we were to do that,
uh, it was my understanding with those

965
01:20:56,880 --> 01:21:04,480
discussions that we actually might come
up with some tens of thousands of

966
01:21:01,440 --> 01:21:10,000
dollars, um, that not only would cover
our extra cost, but could potentially be

967
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:13,760
used uh, on other purposes during the
budgeting process here. You know, we've

968
01:21:11,679 --> 01:21:20,560
had certainly some increases in cost in
other areas. Um, so it looks like at

969
01:21:17,199 --> 01:21:24,560
least in my perspective that if we look
at that that that could be a way to

970
01:21:23,199 --> 01:21:30,920
where we could still provide this
service to our mobility challenged

971
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:30,920
residences or uh residents.

972
01:21:31,440 --> 01:21:39,600
» Thank you for that, Stephen. Any other
comments from the counselors

973
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:46,480
or from staff? Sabrina,
>> I was just going to add um Rick did send

974
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:52,400
back to the municipality is kind of four
options um that we keep things as the

975
01:21:50,880 --> 01:22:00,480
way they are. So that would be our
option A. Um that we move forward with

976
01:21:56,560 --> 01:22:06,000
using more federal funding, that we, you
know, increase fairs at some level or

977
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:11,760
that we decide that we don't we no
longer want to do the program. So really

978
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:15,920
what we're looking for is your guidance
so we can go back to the public transit

979
01:22:14,239 --> 01:22:20,320
committee on Monday and have a
discussion.

980
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:26,920
» Thank you for that Sabrina. Before we go
to we can do Amanda's question first and

981
01:22:23,199 --> 01:22:26,920
then go ahead Amanda.

982
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:36,719
» Sorry not used to these. Um we did ask
for some data from running um if anybody

983
01:22:32,719 --> 01:22:44,000
is interested in that. um just kind of
asking where where our people are going.

984
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:49,760
And so um we looked at that data just
briefly today. The number one to or from

985
01:22:48,239 --> 01:22:57,280
spot
um that share goes uh is the MTU bus

986
01:22:54,159 --> 01:23:02,320
stop. So that is the number one most
dropped off or picked up from location

987
01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:08,719
that shared ride goes to. Um, beyond
that, the next one was Walmart.

988
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:15,760
Um, Quick Trip was very high up there.
Um, and then after that would be uh to

989
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:19,679
or from collectively what I'm going to
call our senior living. So, your uh and

990
01:23:18,239 --> 01:23:25,920
not just on Alaska. So, like your
Moulder um on a care center um

991
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:29,040
Springbrook, some of these smaller care
centers that may not have their own

992
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:32,639
transportation. So, collectively they
would be a very high-end user. Um, and

993
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:38,080
then you start getting into your
Gundersons, your Mayos, um, and just

994
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:42,320
sort of like churches and random
locations beyond that. But as we are

995
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:45,600
talking about MCU, I thought it was at
least worth everybody knowing that that

996
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:50,000
is the number one pickup and drop off
location for shared ride.

997
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:53,679
» Thank you. I just want to ask Sabrina
one more thing. So, you're rattling off

998
01:23:51,679 --> 01:23:57,360
the numbers pretty quick and I was
having trouble kind of seeing what page

999
01:23:55,280 --> 01:24:02,639
you were on. I I want to make sure
everybody understands like this public

1000
01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:07,360
transportation we have been able to
successfully have this because it is

1001
01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:14,639
heavily subsidized but can you say again
Sabrina what the total cost is for the

1002
01:24:10,639 --> 01:24:18,800
MTU for on Alaska and for the shared
ride without like including the

1003
01:24:16,639 --> 01:24:23,360
subsidies like how much it costs for the
programs. Um I've always supported um

1004
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:28,159
public transportation and I'll continue
to do so. Um, but you know, we have we

1005
01:24:26,719 --> 01:24:32,719
have a lot of we can't prioritize
everything. So, I'll ask Sabrina that if

1006
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:38,239
she do you have it available?
>> Yeah, I do. I guess I'm just curious. Do

1007
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:41,679
you want to know including the the share
ride and the MTU what our cost is

1008
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:51,480
separately?
>> Separately. Okay. So for 2026, the total

1009
01:24:45,679 --> 01:24:51,480
cost of the MTU um is $54,431

1010
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:57,320
and the cost for the share ride is
143,573.

1011
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:11,000
And then as for 2027, it depends which
proposal that we move forward with. Um,

1012
01:25:05,199 --> 01:25:11,000
proposal A would be $271,629

1013
01:25:12,159 --> 01:25:20,280
for the share ride and then the MTU
would go to the I think it's 80,421.

1014
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:30,639
So for that first number that is what
we're paying but taxpayers are all the

1015
01:25:28,159 --> 01:25:37,920
taxpayers are also contributing to the
subsidy. So, I meant I meant the amount

1016
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:41,840
including what the state government and
the federal government is paying toward

1017
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:48,480
the program because I think that's often
overlooked is like our direct cost is in

1018
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:53,360
this case for the shared ride it's
143,500

1019
01:25:50,320 --> 01:26:03,080
and something but the cost is higher
than that. Yes. Um, so the total cost

1020
01:25:58,480 --> 01:26:03,080
for the share ride is $1,313,118.

1021
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:08,600
Of that, $612,845

1022
01:26:09,199 --> 01:26:16,960
comes from federal and state funding.
$240,000

1023
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:21,159
is the wrership revenue, leaving the
remaining 446,273

1024
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:29,120
for 2027.
And then the 80,421

1025
01:26:26,719 --> 01:26:34,440
for the MTU.
>> Thank you. That's what I was getting at.

1026
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:34,440
All right, Stephen.

1027
01:26:34,480 --> 01:26:42,760
» So, um, with the ridership on the share
ride, did I miss it? Did you mention how

1028
01:26:38,719 --> 01:26:42,760
many rides were going to the hospitals?

1029
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:49,520
» Um, I had the clinics, I had Gunderson
and Mayo in there. They were probably

1030
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:52,719
like four and five on the list.
>> I just missed it then. All right.

1031
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:56,639
Thanks.
The other thing too with mayor is that

1032
01:26:54,800 --> 01:27:01,040
there are municipalities uh you know
with West Salem and Holm that contribute

1033
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:06,400
to this too and um within their
discussions whatever they decide will

1034
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:10,560
directly impact us as well. Um yeah I
mean in the end I don't think there's

1035
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:16,880
probably anyone here who doesn't want to
provide these services. The questions

1036
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:22,320
are can we provide both of them? Can we
provide any of them? And uh what is the

1037
01:27:20,400 --> 01:27:26,639
financial impact on this? because we do
have a budget that has to be balanced

1038
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:30,800
each year and uh that's just the reality
of life. We can't do everything. There's

1039
01:27:28,239 --> 01:27:33,679
limited resources. So,
>> Rick Neimra,

1040
01:27:32,239 --> 01:27:38,560
» thank you, mayor. Just a couple
additional items. So, we did also take a

1041
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:42,159
look at what are other options in the
event. I'm not recommending this, of

1042
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:45,440
course. Um what other options for
transportation are out there? Um

1043
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:48,960
although not I've talked quite
extensively that there's you know Uber

1044
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:52,000
and Lift of course and we just check
randomly during the day to see what

1045
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:55,600
those fairs look like during the day and
could be anywhere from six to 12 dollars

1046
01:27:53,679 --> 01:28:00,560
or something along those lines um during
the day. Um so there's that as an

1047
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:05,520
option. Um Abby Vans um does serve our
area as well as well as other areas. Um

1048
01:28:03,199 --> 01:28:09,440
so there's another opportunity. um local
cab companies. Again, none of these are

1049
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:12,960
ideal for some of the population that is
being served by our Drift Link program,

1050
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:16,800
but I also just wanted to make sure you
have all the information that there are

1051
01:28:14,719 --> 01:28:21,280
some options out there. Um they just may
not be as ideal. Um and then the other

1052
01:28:19,199 --> 01:28:25,840
piece I wanted to mention, um I did
reach out to MTU because I wanted to

1053
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:31,040
know what our writership was for 24 and
25. Um and for 2024 the writership was

1054
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:36,320
46,619
and this is just on Alaska. in 2025 it

1055
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:42,320
was 41,790.
So it is a heavily used um service in

1056
01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:46,480
Alaska. Um Adam did advise me that
starting next month I believe they are

1057
01:28:44,480 --> 01:28:49,920
going to be able to monitor specific
stops. Um so they'll be able to know

1058
01:28:48,159 --> 01:28:54,960
which stops are being utilized the most
as well versus just the the geographical

1059
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:59,719
location. Couple things I just wanted to
throw out there forformational purposes

1060
01:28:56,480 --> 01:28:59,719
as well.

1061
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:11,320
» Okay. So the transit committee needs
direction from this council as to how

1062
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:11,320
they should move forward. So

1063
01:29:12,159 --> 01:29:23,360
know if anyone has any
direction you would like to bring up.

1064
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:27,760
Okay. Jim Bash first and then Stephen
not second.

1065
01:29:25,199 --> 01:29:31,199
» Well, I'm on a transit committee. uh one
of the things that if we were to take

1066
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:35,840
more federal money, we would actually be
dipping into the future and get less

1067
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:42,000
money in the future. So that's really
something that we discarded. Uh the best

1068
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:47,199
option we thought was increasing the
ridership. Uh Drift Link provides some

1069
01:29:45,120 --> 01:29:52,480
services that other places do not
because you can get into wheelchair and

1070
01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:56,960
things like that. Um
the other question that came up was if

1071
01:29:54,639 --> 01:30:03,440
we did increase it are we going to see a
drop in wrership and uh the consensus

1072
01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:07,360
was maybe not. We don't want to
overburden the people that this is going

1073
01:30:05,199 --> 01:30:14,320
to be serving by taking away any money
that they live on a uh a certain income

1074
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:20,560
level. But a dollar or$150 shouldn't be
too severe. And uh the other thing that

1075
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:26,320
I had asked was are we obligated to
provide this service and there's no

1076
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:32,400
statutory obligation. It's just one that
um this is a service we do for the

1077
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:36,560
community. So is it worth it? I do think
this is it serves those who cannot serve

1078
01:30:34,719 --> 01:30:41,040
themselves to get to certain areas that
they have no other way of transporting.

1079
01:30:38,639 --> 01:30:45,280
And considering the present economy, we
may even see writership go up. Who

1080
01:30:42,639 --> 01:30:50,880
knows? But it it seems to be a
worthwhile proceeding. Uh we do have

1081
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:57,199
budgetary concerns. Uh our discussion
was increasing the amount per ridership

1082
01:30:54,400 --> 01:31:03,440
per person might help us offset some of
those costs.

1083
01:31:00,159 --> 01:31:09,280
» Thank you for that. Jim Stephen not
>> during that meeting um I requested and I

1084
01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:14,880
think everyone is in agreement that that
was okay that um H Homeman and West

1085
01:31:12,239 --> 01:31:19,360
Salem also invite their finance
directors to come to that next meeting

1086
01:31:17,199 --> 01:31:26,080
because this really the big driver on
this is that huge increase in cost for

1087
01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:31,360
um for the shareide program and how we
if at all possible we can do this. Um, I

1088
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:37,360
mean, I I'd [clears throat] like to see
us do everything possible to try to save

1089
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:44,880
this program, but in the end, the other
uh participating communities will have a

1090
01:31:40,480 --> 01:31:48,480
say in this that may remove ours. Um,
because this is ultimately going to be

1091
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:53,360
how many resources do we have available
to do it. Um, again, I'd like to look at

1092
01:31:51,360 --> 01:32:00,800
other options even above and beyond what
were discussed in that meeting. Um, and

1093
01:31:56,400 --> 01:32:05,040
we can bring it up at the next one. So,
>> Rick, is a decision going to need to be

1094
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:10,080
made because we have the RFP out and
we're coming to the end of the contract.

1095
01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:13,440
What is the timeline for the decision?
>> Certainly something sooner rather than

1096
01:32:11,679 --> 01:32:16,719
later. I don't know if we have a dead
hard deadline. What I would say is if

1097
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:21,199
for some reason, and these are all
hypothetical speaking of course, um if

1098
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:25,840
for some reason the contract, the
proposed contract um starting in 2027 is

1099
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:29,840
not acceptable, do we have to go out for
a new RFP to see if there will either

1100
01:32:27,679 --> 01:32:33,120
get some some new responses or if
they'll change their proposal. If we do

1101
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:37,760
that, they know that's going to take
some time as well too. If a new vendor

1102
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:41,440
would come in, they would need some time
to be able to do what they need to do.

1103
01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:45,600
So really, it's sooner rather than later
from a practical standpoint before

1104
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:49,440
budget um gets submitted to council. Um
we know need to know what we need to

1105
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:51,920
budget for. So there's no hard and fast
deadline, but the sooner we know the

1106
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:55,440
better.
>> Um that brings up another question. And

1107
01:32:53,760 --> 01:33:03,120
Sabrina, did you have a chance to
research what would like hypothetically

1108
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:09,040
speaking if the Drift Link program were
to be discontinued because we have the

1109
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:18,239
assets like how does how does is there
how complicated is disassembling the

1110
01:33:15,440 --> 01:33:24,400
it will take some work. Um we will have
to obviously file our own resolution

1111
01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:28,080
contract. um
like that we are ending the program but

1112
01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:33,920
then also we'll have to file some
paperwork with the FTA as well as the

1113
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:40,800
DOT and then all of the vehicles we
would have to um dispose of them and

1114
01:33:37,199 --> 01:33:45,760
then pay back the federal government for
the amount that was left for the useful

1115
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:51,120
life of the vehicle and likely we would
get that in the selling of the vehicles.

1116
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:57,920
Um, so that wouldn't be money that would
be retained by the municipality unless

1117
01:33:54,239 --> 01:34:03,920
it was over what was owed back to the
federal government.

1118
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:09,440
Thank you. I just think that's a good
consideration like if it were to be

1119
01:34:06,480 --> 01:34:12,960
discontinued, it is we kind of need to
know that so we can start working out

1120
01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:18,880
the details. Sabrina,
>> I was just going to add um our current

1121
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:27,040
contract does end December 31st. Um, so
we we actually do have a decent um like

1122
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:33,199
we don't have much time. Like if we if
we don't make a decision, then we could

1123
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:38,400
be going a couple months without the
transportation because our contract does

1124
01:34:35,040 --> 01:34:42,159
end on December 31st.
>> Okay. Uh Rick has one more comment.

1125
01:34:41,199 --> 01:34:46,000
» Sorry, that's okay.
>> Along Sabrina's line, too. We've done

1126
01:34:44,239 --> 01:34:50,080
all the extensions of the contract that
we can do already. Um, so that's why we

1127
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:53,760
can't go beyond December 31st with our
current contract. Um, and then the other

1128
01:34:52,239 --> 01:34:58,719
piece since we brought up the van piece
as well, another component of this

1129
01:34:56,080 --> 01:35:02,719
program is we will need new vans to be
replaced periodically. U, we do get

1130
01:35:01,199 --> 01:35:06,800
matched from the federal government for
a good portion of it. Um, but those are

1131
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:10,719
things that the municipalities who are
participating in the program will also

1132
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:14,800
have to contribute to as time goes on.
Sabrina can tell you how many we replace

1133
01:35:12,639 --> 01:35:19,480
on a regular basis, but that is also a
cost that we will have to consider

1134
01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:19,480
coming up soon.

1135
01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:28,159
» And I believe this was open record, but
let me make sure uh when we're talking

1136
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:32,480
with the with the contract here, the
duration and the option years, uh those

1137
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:36,880
are open record, right? Yeah. So just so
everyone knows what we're talking about

1138
01:35:33,840 --> 01:35:42,080
here is if we do move forward, we're
obligating oursel for two years and then

1139
01:35:39,679 --> 01:35:45,840
we have three plus one years potential
where we can, you know, go one year,

1140
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:50,080
decide to go another year and decide to
go another year before that contract

1141
01:35:47,440 --> 01:35:54,679
runs out. So it's a 2 plus one plus one
plus one. Okay.

1142
01:35:55,199 --> 01:36:00,440
» Okay. What would the council like to do?

1143
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:10,920
Well, I said my piece. I'd like to see
us you get do other options and see if

1144
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:10,920
there's any way to salvage this.

1145
01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:19,760
» Tom Smith.
>> Yeah, I I agree. I think we got to look

1146
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:23,199
at some other options because even if
the West Salem and the other ones come

1147
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:27,280
back and they don't want it, then we're
pretty well out of the water, right? So,

1148
01:36:25,440 --> 01:36:32,239
but maybe a rate increase of a dollar,
dollar and a half is is probably the

1149
01:36:29,199 --> 01:36:39,560
best option if we keep it.
That's my thought.

1150
01:36:35,199 --> 01:36:39,560
» Okay, Kathy, any comments?

1151
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:45,679
I'm not a huge fan of increasing fees,
but um knowing that if we take

1152
01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:48,960
additional government funds, that's
going to be coming out of future years

1153
01:36:47,119 --> 01:36:53,840
and then we still have to figure out how
then to budget for those future years.

1154
01:36:51,440 --> 01:36:58,880
Um I I'm kind of leaning towards
increasing the fee.

1155
01:36:56,880 --> 01:37:03,040
» Thank you, James.
I think increasing the fee would be

1156
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:09,440
reasonable considering for how long it
hasn't been and it should honestly be

1157
01:37:06,800 --> 01:37:14,960
raised every year because
prices on everything continue to go up

1158
01:37:11,119 --> 01:37:20,480
so it we're probably overdue on that.
>> Thank you for that. Jim Bash, did you

1159
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:25,440
want to add anything? [clears throat]
Uh Steve and I had talked about or were

1160
01:37:22,800 --> 01:37:31,760
at the transit committee meeting and
listened to the other participants. Um

1161
01:37:30,239 --> 01:37:35,440
they were going to go back and see where
they were going to go with this and then

1162
01:37:33,679 --> 01:37:42,400
we'll know a little bit more, but there
seemed to be a general consensus to

1163
01:37:38,480 --> 01:37:47,920
increasing the wrership cost to help
offset the budgetary concerns.

1164
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:53,520
uh it seems like the other
municipalities do want to continue this

1165
01:37:50,639 --> 01:37:57,920
but they are in the same position we are
with budget concerns. I think that's one

1166
01:37:56,000 --> 01:38:04,159
reason that Steve would wanted the
finance directors or whomever to show up

1167
01:38:00,080 --> 01:38:09,040
to kind of give their opinion. But um if
we can move forward that would be uh

1168
01:38:06,719 --> 01:38:15,119
something we're doing for the people of
our cities and uh if possible we would

1169
01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:20,639
have to increase wrership or uh the
funds for wrership.

1170
01:38:18,639 --> 01:38:28,880
» Okay. So what I'm hearing a general
consensus saying to raise potentially

1171
01:38:24,880 --> 01:38:36,040
theoretically $1.50 but not take from
additional grant money that could affect

1172
01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:36,040
future years. Is that correct,

1173
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:42,080
Stephen?
>> Yeah, I think so. That was consensus

1174
01:38:39,440 --> 01:38:47,679
also at the um well the consensus there
at that time was $1, but uh even a $150

1175
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:52,239
is going to be under what an Uber costs
with a higher degree of uh of uh service

1176
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:58,480
especially for those with mobility
challenges. But um understand if it's

1177
01:38:55,280 --> 01:39:04,480
just $150, we still have a substantial
increase in our in our uh cost for 2027

1178
01:39:01,840 --> 01:39:09,040
2828. That's why I was looking at other
ways to offset with possibly having to

1179
01:39:06,560 --> 01:39:12,040
choose between MTU and uh the share
ride.

1180
01:39:12,080 --> 01:39:22,159
Thank you. Any other comments on that?
Okay. I don't think we need a motion. I

1181
01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:26,560
think that gives the team enough
information to go forward back to the

1182
01:39:24,800 --> 01:39:31,520
transit committee. We'll see what
happens there. Um and then report back

1183
01:39:28,719 --> 01:39:36,159
next month. Okay, everyone's good. All
right, Rick. back to you.

1184
01:39:34,159 --> 01:39:40,639
» Great. Thank you. Let me just get to the
memo on the last item here, at least

1185
01:39:38,239 --> 01:39:44,800
under my section.
All right. This is in regards to traffic

1186
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:49,199
control attendance. Uh this is a topic
that has come up periodically um as I

1187
01:39:46,960 --> 01:39:53,199
indicated in my memo. Um has come up
from staff members, council members, but

1188
01:39:51,600 --> 01:39:59,040
it also has come up. I recently had a
call from um Steve Doyle's um assistant

1189
01:39:56,800 --> 01:40:02,400
um asking questions about this as well.
Um, and so I'm going to give a brief

1190
01:40:00,719 --> 01:40:05,840
introduction and I think Alder might be
able to shed a little light onto the

1191
01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:08,880
information on this as well. Um, but
traffic control attendants, you heard

1192
01:40:07,199 --> 01:40:13,199
the individual who spoke during public
comment earlier tonight. Um, there is a

1193
01:40:11,199 --> 01:40:18,159
pro provision under state law that does
allow for municipalities to appoint them

1194
01:40:15,679 --> 01:40:21,679
in order to do certain things. Um, I
just included a portion of the statute

1195
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:25,840
just to show the um, the reference to
it. Um, but it is a program that must be

1196
01:40:23,840 --> 01:40:30,080
adopted by ordinance and there are
certain requirements that the statute

1197
01:40:27,600 --> 01:40:33,760
does set forth that must be met, but it
also leaves a lot to the municipalities

1198
01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:38,560
to have to determine what's the
appropriate thing. One example is each

1199
01:40:36,719 --> 01:40:42,719
person that is appointed must have some
form of training. Well, there's not a

1200
01:40:40,560 --> 01:40:46,320
traffic attendant um program training
out there. Um, and so based on the

1201
01:40:44,719 --> 01:40:49,840
research I did, the best one I could
come up with was likely the same

1202
01:40:48,400 --> 01:40:53,760
certification you need to become a
flagger. um if you're going to be

1203
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:57,280
working on roadways um I talked with
Jared Halter from public works about

1204
01:40:55,360 --> 01:41:01,440
that and um just the process that it
would take um and it is every two years

1205
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:04,880
needs to be renewed. So that's something
but again there's no guidance in the

1206
01:41:02,880 --> 01:41:11,360
statute but that's what it appears would
be required. Um each time it can't be a

1207
01:41:09,360 --> 01:41:15,600
blanket appointment for someone to do it
just for any time that there is let's

1208
01:41:13,040 --> 01:41:18,480
say a funeral for example each funeral
would have to be a separate appointment

1209
01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:21,600
by the municipality. So there would be
have to be a process. So there just a

1210
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:26,080
number of things that would have to work
through. Um you know public records

1211
01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:28,960
keeping um you know making sure that
things are complied with. Those are just

1212
01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:32,960
some things that as staff we talked
about we had some concerns. Having said

1213
01:41:31,280 --> 01:41:36,639
all of that there is an opportunity for
a program out there under state statute.

1214
01:41:35,119 --> 01:41:39,280
Um I'm going to give turn over to
alternat. He can probably provide some

1215
01:41:38,080 --> 01:41:44,480
additional information about the
historic um use of this program.

1216
01:41:42,159 --> 01:41:48,880
» Thank you for that. Um Rick Nemer will
turn it over to Stephen KN for

1217
01:41:46,159 --> 01:41:53,360
additional information. So, um, yeah,
I'm even questioning the need to go

1218
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:58,480
through flagger training. Ultimately,
what this is is in the past when this

1219
01:41:55,600 --> 01:42:04,800
service was able to be provided is that
we had an individual who dawned a uh

1220
01:42:03,119 --> 01:42:10,480
basically it was a crossing guard
outfit. He he put on a reflective vest,

1221
01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:16,800
had a stop sign and a whistle, and when
the funeral procession is leaving the

1222
01:42:13,280 --> 01:42:21,760
church, or I guess it could also be a uh
funeral home, um that that individual

1223
01:42:20,239 --> 01:42:25,119
would blow the whistle, go out into the
street just like they would if they had

1224
01:42:23,119 --> 01:42:30,239
kids crossing the road to go to school,
and hold that that sign up and stop

1225
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:34,639
traffic going both ways so the funeral
procession can get out safely. That's

1226
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:38,639
all it is. So, and I, you know, I know
that for instance, the individual who

1227
01:42:36,719 --> 01:42:43,040
came up and gave public input was call
referring to it as traffic control, too.

1228
01:42:40,719 --> 01:42:46,239
I guess it kind of is, but all you're
doing is blowing a whistle and stopping

1229
01:42:44,560 --> 01:42:49,760
traffic. You're not trying to direct
traffic or anything like that like a

1230
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:56,159
flagger might do. You're just telling
them to stop and then, okay, you can go

1231
01:42:52,000 --> 01:43:00,480
now. That's all it is. Um, certainly, if
we go forward with this, um, any cost

1232
01:42:58,719 --> 01:43:03,760
for training would have to be borne by
the funeral home andor churches. It

1233
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:07,840
would not be something that I would
support being subsidized by the city,

1234
01:43:06,159 --> 01:43:13,600
but I can't imagine the cost being all
that great to be honest, especially if

1235
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:17,600
we can set the standards for this. It's
folks, it's just going out with a stop

1236
01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:21,920
sign with a whistle. That's all it is.
Um, we're not flagging people down and

1237
01:43:20,080 --> 01:43:26,239
you can stop and now go and stop and now
go and directing traffic or wherever.

1238
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:30,719
It's just stop. Okay, now flow of
traffic can continue. Now, why is this

1239
01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:37,679
service necessary? You can talk to any
funeral home director, any church. There

1240
01:43:34,159 --> 01:43:44,239
are accidents. People do not understand
that they need to stop for a funeral

1241
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:50,639
possession procession. Uh I know that uh
my own um pastor of my own church uh

1242
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:54,880
when he was uh servicing out in Toma was
t-boned uh while he was coming out

1243
01:43:52,639 --> 01:43:58,800
second in the procession. I've heard
from a funeral home director where the

1244
01:43:56,480 --> 01:44:02,080
hearse itself was t-boned. And this is
while they're even while they're being

1245
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:08,480
stopped, let alone now that they don't
have this service. Uh I witness it

1246
01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:12,960
myself with uh folks clearly not
understanding they're supposed to stop.

1247
01:44:10,639 --> 01:44:17,920
And uh it gets very scary. I'm in one of
those cars myself cuz I assist my pastor

1248
01:44:16,239 --> 01:44:21,520
since he's mobility challenged when he
goes out to the uh to the cemeteries.

1249
01:44:20,080 --> 01:44:27,360
And it's like, yeah, I don't think this
person's going to stop. And it's it's

1250
01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:32,400
very scary. did not have the that the
the number of occurrences

1251
01:44:30,159 --> 01:44:37,440
uh when we were able to have that
service. I will tell you that the number

1252
01:44:35,040 --> 01:44:41,440
of incidents has increased exponentially
since we've lost that service. Almost

1253
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:45,760
every single time that funeral
procession pulls out now to head to a

1254
01:44:43,679 --> 01:44:49,360
cemetery, there is somebody who clearly
does not understand they're supposed to

1255
01:44:47,280 --> 01:44:53,840
stop. And it gets very scary when they
stop at the last second. So, I really

1256
01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:58,000
think that we need to try to get some
way to do this. Again, I think uh from

1257
01:44:56,320 --> 01:45:02,000
what I've talked to with other churches
and and especially with other funeral

1258
01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:06,000
directors, that is universally we need
to do this.

1259
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:10,320
» Thank you for that explanation. Do the
counselors have any comments or

1260
01:45:07,440 --> 01:45:13,840
questions regarding this,
>> Kathy? I just never realized that this

1261
01:45:12,159 --> 01:45:18,880
was Sorry, I never realized this was a
city um program. I I always thought that

1262
01:45:17,040 --> 01:45:24,639
it was something that the funeral homes
or churches

1263
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:27,440
Amanda.
Oh, I was I just thought I always

1264
01:45:26,159 --> 01:45:31,360
thought that was something with the that
the uh funeral homes or churches would

1265
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:34,560
provide that you know that's where the
funeral is coming from that that's I

1266
01:45:33,199 --> 01:45:38,000
guess I've never really paid attention
though. That's all.

1267
01:45:36,480 --> 01:45:42,719
» Okay, Amanda,
>> just for clarification, this has never

1268
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:46,960
been authorized by law. So I I don't
know what was formally done at St. hats.

1269
01:45:45,040 --> 01:45:50,800
If it was being done, it was not being
done under any state statute that allows

1270
01:45:49,360 --> 01:45:54,560
it to be done.
>> Uh

1271
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:59,520
the statute that we're talking about
tonight, the one that Rick mentioned, is

1272
01:45:56,320 --> 01:46:05,199
sort of a backdoor way of doing this
legally. Um this came into fruition in

1273
01:46:03,119 --> 01:46:11,040
2012 with a bill that was passed in
2011. Um it was meant for special

1274
01:46:08,719 --> 01:46:15,600
events, which is why it's very specific
as to the date and time of each event.

1275
01:46:14,159 --> 01:46:22,880
So, it was really meant for like
largescale traffic control at something

1276
01:46:17,679 --> 01:46:27,440
like the state fair or major events. Um,
I do from a liability perspective have a

1277
01:46:25,679 --> 01:46:32,719
little bit of a concern about putting
somebody out in the middle of traffic um

1278
01:46:30,239 --> 01:46:39,440
with nothing but a whistle and and a
vest. I mean quite and a stop sign,

1279
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:44,880
you know, much for the reasons that
Stephen described. Um, you know, people

1280
01:46:42,159 --> 01:46:48,239
these days don't always pay attention to
normal stop signs, let alone like who's

1281
01:46:46,800 --> 01:46:52,239
going to bear the liability when this
person gets hit. Will the city bear the

1282
01:46:49,920 --> 01:46:57,280
liability? Will the funeral home? Will
the church? Um, because that's a factor.

1283
01:46:55,600 --> 01:47:01,119
If we're going to be the ones that are
going to regulate this program, we're

1284
01:46:59,119 --> 01:47:04,719
likely going to bear some liability. Is
there going to be an insurance

1285
01:47:02,239 --> 01:47:11,040
requirement? Um, that would be a
question I would have. Um, so I do think

1286
01:47:07,760 --> 01:47:14,800
that that there's probably answers or
questions that we don't have answers to

1287
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:19,280
as of this moment.
>> Thank you for that legal perspective.

1288
01:47:16,639 --> 01:47:24,639
Amanda, we appreciate it. Counselors,
any other comments or questions.

1289
01:47:22,320 --> 01:47:29,119
Okay, we'll go with James first and then
Jim Bash.

1290
01:47:26,560 --> 01:47:36,600
» Is there any reason a can't arrange to
have a police officer block traffic at a

1291
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:36,600
certain point in time of the day?

1292
01:47:37,119 --> 01:47:42,000
We'll let our chief of police answer
that question.

1293
01:47:39,760 --> 01:47:48,000
» That that would be very difficult for us
to do unfortunately just to guarantee

1294
01:47:45,280 --> 01:47:51,440
that we would have someone there. Um we
would have to bring someone in on

1295
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:56,880
overtime just so we could guarantee that
that person was going to be available.

1296
01:47:54,400 --> 01:48:00,440
Um the scheduling and the cost of that
would be very difficult.

1297
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:12,480
» Thank you for that, Chief Jim Ban.
I just a question. Uh, is it possible to

1298
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:16,880
put the onus on the funeral home and the
churches to provide their own people

1299
01:48:14,480 --> 01:48:21,920
rather than the city?
Well, I'm I'm saying uh can they do this

1300
01:48:19,440 --> 01:48:26,480
legally? That's my question. Can the
funeral home and the churches provide

1301
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:29,760
their own personnel without the city
getting involved?

1302
01:48:27,760 --> 01:48:34,000
» Okay, we'll let our city attorney answer
that question. Thank you, Jim Bes.

1303
01:48:31,840 --> 01:48:38,480
» No, they cannot. they would need to do
it under a program as kind of described

1304
01:48:36,320 --> 01:48:43,679
by Rick where the city would need to
approve the time, the location. Um, they

1305
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:47,840
would we would need to have proof that
the person doing it had whatever

1306
01:48:45,280 --> 01:48:51,280
requisite training was required. Um, if
we wanted to throw an insurance

1307
01:48:49,119 --> 01:48:55,520
requirement on there, I would be in
support of that as your attorney. Um but

1308
01:48:53,679 --> 01:48:58,960
but no, it would need to be basically
like a city-run program almost like

1309
01:48:57,199 --> 01:49:05,119
we're permitting
the use of a traffic attendant at this

1310
01:49:01,920 --> 01:49:10,880
particular for this particular occasion.
>> Isn't there a a state law or is this

1311
01:49:07,760 --> 01:49:14,000
just a city thing? Um I know there are
some cities that when you're in a

1312
01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:18,880
funeral position, you're allowed to go
through red lights and people have to

1313
01:49:16,480 --> 01:49:22,560
stop. You drive with your headlights on
and you're allowed to proceed.

1314
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:26,520
» Correct. That's state law. That is a
state law.

1315
01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:26,520
» Okay.

1316
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:38,920
» Okay. Any other? Okay. Kathy Londarf.
Um I actually um was just thinking about

1317
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:38,920
the Sorry, I literally just lost it.

1318
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:46,159
It was something about what what Amanda
had said. Um

1319
01:49:43,520 --> 01:49:50,480
basic Oh, um about the uh notification
of the frequency, right? It sounds like

1320
01:49:48,480 --> 01:49:54,560
it this was really intended for like if
we're going to have a concert, we can

1321
01:49:52,080 --> 01:50:01,360
bring somebody in, hire them, and so
they can direct traffic. If we were to

1322
01:49:58,080 --> 01:50:05,840
uh approve an ordinance for this as a
municipality,

1323
01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:12,480
we're looking at potentially probably
adding in another committee to approve

1324
01:50:09,040 --> 01:50:17,440
specific dates and that, right? Am I
thinking of that right? And like if we

1325
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:24,880
if we have to have certain uh um
notification of dates in advance that

1326
01:50:21,520 --> 01:50:29,600
potentially is going to be uh prolonging
the time of a funeral too, right?

1327
01:50:27,520 --> 01:50:32,880
» You could set up that. We also do have a
lot of permitting and licensing that

1328
01:50:31,040 --> 01:50:35,840
city staff has the authority to approve.
So it could be something where if they

1329
01:50:34,480 --> 01:50:39,199
meet the requirements set under
ordinance that either the chief of

1330
01:50:37,360 --> 01:50:43,440
police or the clerk or somebody within
the city would have the ability um to

1331
01:50:42,000 --> 01:50:47,040
approve that. Okay.
>> Um,

1332
01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:50,480
so that would be one option.
>> Okay. Thank you,

1333
01:50:49,280 --> 01:50:54,000
» Stephen. Not
>> Yeah, I think for understanding

1334
01:50:52,159 --> 01:50:58,080
timelines on this, uh, generally
speaking, when there's a funeral, it's

1335
01:50:55,760 --> 01:51:02,000
going to be usually at least 72 hours
out. I've seen them occur within 48, but

1336
01:51:00,639 --> 01:51:05,199
I mean, the family has to get with the
funeral home. They have to get with each

1337
01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:08,719
other. They have to make determination
on what they want to do. It's not

1338
01:51:07,119 --> 01:51:12,800
something that happens today or
tomorrow. It's uh you're going to have

1339
01:51:10,320 --> 01:51:17,040
enough time where uh they should be able
to get with the city and uh okay, here's

1340
01:51:15,360 --> 01:51:22,080
my in this case, you know, here's my
proof of a training. Here's the date and

1341
01:51:19,440 --> 01:51:27,360
time I'm going to need it and uh do I
have an approval? They should have 48,

1342
01:51:23,840 --> 01:51:32,639
72, 96 hours to do that. Sometimes even
longer. Some people delay funerals for

1343
01:51:29,760 --> 01:51:37,040
quite literally months. So, yeah.
>> Okay. So, counselors, how would you like

1344
01:51:34,639 --> 01:51:44,080
staff and Rick to proceed with this
request? Oh, Chief Berg, please comment.

1345
01:51:41,360 --> 01:51:47,920
» Thank you, Mayor. I just did a quick
calculation today and we have 11

1346
01:51:46,000 --> 01:51:55,199
churches, if my calculations are
correct, and four funeral homes. So, if

1347
01:51:52,320 --> 01:52:00,080
this is necessary, again, I would just
ask the council to consider staff at

1348
01:51:57,840 --> 01:52:05,760
least at the police department because
if we're looking into training people or

1349
01:52:03,599 --> 01:52:10,960
ensuring people are trained, approving
dates, um potentially background checks,

1350
01:52:08,880 --> 01:52:15,679
because if we're giving our stamp of
approval for these people to go out and

1351
01:52:13,199 --> 01:52:22,880
stop traffic, um are we looking at
routes? Um, it I think there's a lot

1352
01:52:18,719 --> 01:52:26,719
more here than what it just first
appears to be. And I'm not trying to

1353
01:52:24,480 --> 01:52:32,239
make it overly complicated, but my
experience tells me that that's kind of

1354
01:52:28,560 --> 01:52:37,360
how these things can get.
>> Thank you.

1355
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:41,760
» Thank you, sir. Okay, Stephen. Not
>> Yeah. So any uh solutions or options we

1356
01:52:40,159 --> 01:52:46,800
come up with in the future I do think
should be transferring any costs onto

1357
01:52:44,639 --> 01:52:51,599
either funeral home or uh or church and
that would include liability insurance.

1358
01:52:49,199 --> 01:52:55,599
Um if there are background checks, you
know, that's that's I I mean I think

1359
01:52:53,760 --> 01:52:58,880
it's reasonable to assume that their
people who are doing this should have to

1360
01:52:57,040 --> 01:53:03,040
go through that. I don't know that
background checks would be necessary or

1361
01:53:01,119 --> 01:53:06,960
not because we're not dealing with
children. We're dealing just with cars.

1362
01:53:05,599 --> 01:53:12,400
I understand there are people in the
car, but uh um but uh whatever those

1363
01:53:10,639 --> 01:53:16,239
costs may be, you know, equipment,
obviously, all that should have to fall

1364
01:53:14,480 --> 01:53:22,320
on them, not on the city. The only thing
we're doing is trying to figure out a

1365
01:53:17,760 --> 01:53:26,480
process and in order to approve it.
>> Thank you. Okay, Rick Neimire, at this

1366
01:53:25,040 --> 01:53:30,480
point of the discussion, what do you
need from the council?

1367
01:53:28,639 --> 01:53:33,040
» Does C does council want us to put
together what this program would look

1368
01:53:31,679 --> 01:53:37,280
like and bring it forward, what that
process would look like? Um, and while I

1369
01:53:36,080 --> 01:53:41,199
agree that, you know, from my
perspective, the cost would get would

1370
01:53:38,800 --> 01:53:45,280
get passed on, you know, we are now
adding another process that staff are

1371
01:53:43,199 --> 01:53:47,920
going to have to work through every time
that someone wants one of these. You

1372
01:53:46,719 --> 01:53:50,560
know, we don't know if it's going to be
10 times a week, if it's going to be

1373
01:53:49,119 --> 01:53:53,840
once a month. We don't know what that's
going to look like yet, but we are

1374
01:53:52,239 --> 01:53:57,280
looking at, you know, record retention.
You know, storing these records for the

1375
01:53:55,199 --> 01:54:00,719
requisite period of time also is a cost
to the city. Um, staff time and

1376
01:53:59,360 --> 01:54:04,639
processing these things, making sure
that their eyes are dotted, tees are

1377
01:54:02,639 --> 01:54:07,599
crossed, so to speak. I just I want to
make sure that it's clear that, you

1378
01:54:05,760 --> 01:54:10,800
know, those are things that while I get
that it might be someone as simple as,

1379
01:54:09,360 --> 01:54:14,239
you know, going out in the street with a
whistle. I'm not trying to be sarcastic

1380
01:54:12,159 --> 01:54:18,400
about it, but as Amanda said, it is
putting somebody in a lane of traffic

1381
01:54:16,320 --> 01:54:22,400
where there's always the opportunity for
somebody to, you know, not be paying

1382
01:54:20,320 --> 01:54:25,840
attention. So, it does create some
liability, I think, on behalf of the

1383
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:29,679
city to some extent. So, I just want us
to be cautious in regards to how we

1384
01:54:27,920 --> 01:54:32,639
might proceed on this. Having said all
of that, just need direction. Is this

1385
01:54:31,280 --> 01:54:35,840
something the council wants us to come
back with?

1386
01:54:34,159 --> 01:54:38,840
» Thank you. What is the desire of the
council?

1387
01:54:42,480 --> 01:54:49,440
» I'd be interested in seeing something
come forward with this.

1388
01:54:46,960 --> 01:54:52,719
» Do you need an actual motion or is like
a headnot? Okay.

1389
01:54:50,800 --> 01:54:56,320
» I think much like the one with the um
ATV UTV, if we know that you want to at

1390
01:54:54,639 --> 01:54:58,960
least take a look at something, as
someone indicated, you still have to

1391
01:54:57,599 --> 01:55:02,159
consider it and decide whether to pass
it or not. So, um, we can put together a

1392
01:55:01,199 --> 01:55:07,840
proposal.
>> Okay. So, BA there's basic interest in

1393
01:55:05,040 --> 01:55:11,520
having staff pursue this.
Okay. I'm seeing several yeses. So, I

1394
01:55:09,920 --> 01:55:15,569
think you have your answer, Rick. Thank
you.

1395
01:55:14,000 --> 01:55:16,880
Does that conclude your report?
[laughter]

1396
01:55:16,000 --> 01:55:22,239
» I'm finally done.
>> We should have timed. It was longer than

1397
01:55:19,599 --> 01:55:28,719
the mayor's report. [laughter]
Okay. So, we have two um close session

1398
01:55:26,080 --> 01:55:32,960
items on the agenda tonight. Um, I'll
read them into the record. We'll have

1399
01:55:30,800 --> 01:55:37,360
Amanda do a brief comment about why the
close session will be necessary for

1400
01:55:34,639 --> 01:55:43,040
these items. We'll have a roll call vote
and then we'll continue on. So, item two

1401
01:55:41,040 --> 01:55:47,679
is discussion and possible action on the
fire department union negotiation

1402
01:55:45,119 --> 01:55:52,400
update. Um, please note that the common
council may convene in close session

1403
01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:56,960
under section 19851E of the Wisconsin
state statutes for the purpose of

1404
01:55:54,880 --> 01:56:02,719
deliberating or negotiating the purchase
of public properties, the investing in

1405
01:55:59,119 --> 01:56:06,960
investing of public funds, or conducting
of other specified public business.

1406
01:56:04,880 --> 01:56:11,920
Whenever competitive or bargaining
reasons require a closed session, the

1407
01:56:09,440 --> 01:56:16,800
council may reconvene in open session to
take the necessary action and continue

1408
01:56:14,239 --> 01:56:22,719
on with the printed agenda. And then
item number 13 is discussion and

1409
01:56:20,080 --> 01:56:28,000
possible action on the offer to purchase
from amplify for the Gunderson parking

1410
01:56:25,360 --> 01:56:31,520
ramp. Note that the common council may
convene in close session under section

1411
01:56:29,920 --> 01:56:36,480
19851E
of the Wisconsin statutes for the

1412
01:56:33,599 --> 01:56:41,040
purpose of deliberating or negotiating
the purchase of public properties, the

1413
01:56:38,480 --> 01:56:45,119
investing of public funds, or the
conducting of other specified public

1414
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:49,679
business. Whenever competitive or
bargaining reasons require a closed

1415
01:56:47,119 --> 01:56:54,080
session, the council may reconvene in
open session to take the necessary

1416
01:56:51,440 --> 01:56:57,920
action and or continue on with the
printed agenda.

1417
01:56:56,159 --> 01:57:02,280
Amanda, as our city attorney, can you
please advise us on these two items?

1418
01:57:04,560 --> 01:57:10,719
» Uh, thank you, your honor. So, you know,
as you described, we will be discussing

1419
01:57:08,880 --> 01:57:15,119
the fire department union negotiations.
These are our standard regular contract

1420
01:57:12,560 --> 01:57:19,760
negotiations that we enter into um every
time a contract is set to expire, uh,

1421
01:57:17,760 --> 01:57:27,199
which the fire department contract is as
of 2027. Um and then as mentioned under

1422
01:57:24,800 --> 01:57:32,159
um number 13, we'll be discussing the
parking ramp purchase. Um and again,

1423
01:57:30,480 --> 01:57:38,960
anytime we are looking at the purchasing
or selling of public properties, um that

1424
01:57:34,960 --> 01:57:44,159
is necessary to do in close session.
>> Move to go into close session.

1425
01:57:41,360 --> 01:57:48,719
» Second. We have a motion by Steven N.
It's been seconded by Kathy Lowendorf to

1426
01:57:46,480 --> 01:57:52,000
go into close session. Please answer
when your name is called. This is a roll

1427
01:57:50,400 --> 01:57:55,119
call vote.
>> Alder Wick

1428
01:57:54,320 --> 01:57:56,639
» I.
>> Alder Smith

1429
01:57:56,239 --> 01:57:58,000
» I.
>> Alder Bash.

1430
01:57:57,520 --> 01:57:59,520
» Hi.
>> Alder Lwendorf

1431
01:57:59,199 --> 01:58:01,599
» I.
>> Alder not.

1432
01:58:00,719 --> 01:58:07,840
» Hi.
>> Okay. We are in close session. The time

1433
01:58:03,679 --> 01:58:12,920
is 900 p.m. Um we'll secure the room and
reconvene in about five minutes.