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Let's call the regular city council meeting. I have an November 12, 2025 to order. If you have not silenced your cell phones, please do so at this time.

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Tonight's invocation will be given by Pastor Danny Kureme, Orange Police Department chaplain, to be followed by the pledge of allegiance, which I will lead. Please stand.

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Thank you.

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Did you join me in a word of prayer?

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God, we just want to pause from the busyness of our days.

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Lord, we've all come from something and we want to take you out your word that calls us

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to be still and know that you're God.

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When we honor you and we recognize you, we recognize or you're character in nature, that

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you're good and you're mercy and doors forever, and whether you're righteous and true and

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that you call us to a place of worship and so Lord, we do honor you.

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God, we remember the great example that you call us to, that Jesus called us to, that if we

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want to be great in God's kingdom, we've got to learn to be servants of all, and I pray

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Lord today that heart would be in us, Lord as a community, Lord as a leadership here, God

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that there would be a desire to first and foremost serve you, and as a result of our service

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to you, that a community would be blessed, Lord that people's lives would prosper, Lord that

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there would be justice and truth and hope, Lord,

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in a time where so many are faltering

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and hopeless and in despair.

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And so we remember who you are and what you promise,

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your goodness and your mercy.

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And Lord, we thank you.

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That today, you are an ever-present help for us

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or that you're wisdom when we ask for it.

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And so Lord, we come to you humbly,

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and we come to you boldly because of what you've done for us.

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And we ask you, Lord, to give wisdom

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to this body, Lord to strengthen them in every way, Lord I pray blessing over their families

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and their loved ones. God, I ask that you would continue, Lord, to bless the city of

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Orange Lord. And we so desire that you would be put first in all things. So we thank you

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and we honor you. It's in the name of Jesus. Amen. Amen. Please join me in a promise of loyalty to

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flag into our country. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and

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to the Republic for wishes and one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for

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all.

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Thank you, Pastor Kermaine. Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

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Mayor,

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our table are here. Council member Guterres here, near Slater.

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A qualms present with Council member Gillian Hammer excuse.

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Thank you. Tonight we have two presentations from our high school

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liaison.

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First one is Dylan Plattford from Elmadiah High School.

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Hello.

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So I decided to share some of the Barbara events happening at Elmadiah High School.

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So on Halloween, we celebrated with a costume contest judge by our teachers alongside a beautiful

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tribute to Hispanic culture, more specifically Dia de los Marcos. This included a friend thus,

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face-peaning and memorable performances by our students Mariachi class, choir, and even Mrs.

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Gudino from our faculty. Then on November 3rd, we held midnight madness,

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a lively event honoring our winter sports teams with interactive games and performances.

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November 6, dancing with the teachers, where we enjoyed watching our teachers show off their

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dance moves with Miss Moll and Mr. Henderson taking home the win.

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The following day, November 7, we recognize outstanding students at our Vanguard of the first quarter event,

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which teachers select students who stood out so that I'm rewarding them with pancakes and certificates.

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Today, the 12th, we celebrated five students committing the college, committing two college

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sports teams at our signing day event.

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It was inspiring to see them all take the next step into their academic and athletic

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careers.

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Tomorrow, the class of 2026 will enjoy a movie night, watching Pride and Prejudice, this event

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promises a fun and relaxing evening for our seniors as they unwind and bond over a classic

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film.

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In sports, our girls tennis team reached the CIF quarter finals in a close match with Sagazhai,

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ending with a score of 8 to 10.

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With fall sports concluding, we're eagerly anticipating the start of winter sports next week,

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with the first basketball game scheduled for next Monday.

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We're wishing our basketball team the best of luck as they tip off their next season.

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Also, our marching band and color guard have a competition this Saturday,

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And we're wishing them our support as they showcase their hard work in telling.

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That's all I have to say about our Vanguard's for now.

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Thank you so much for your time.

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Thank you, Mr. Plathford.

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Yeah, for more high school, Jacob Gonzalez.

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Good evening.

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We can raise that if you can raise that up if you want to help you.

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Thank you.

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We are very proud of our own high school football team, but both of the flag and tackle team

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seasons have unfortunately come to an end and want to highlight their hard work and dedication.

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Additionally, once recognized all of our fall sports teams for their great seasons and achievements.

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As a rep of fall athletics, we're excited to see our winter sports teams come together and begin

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this season next week. Thank you for everyone in a large orange community who came out of the

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sporadical teams. Orange high school is currently hosting like annual Ken Food Drive.

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Our goal is to collect at least three tons of non-perjable food and personal hygiene products

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for our local, friendly center,

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as well as our families within our own high school community.

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We're dedicated to helping our Panthers family

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at this difficult time.

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If anyone is interested in donating,

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it would be more than happy to help organize that.

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We're currently excited to nation's in our front office.

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And finally, last week our seniors

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participated in our annual college application week.

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Our advisors, they have a fantastic job at creating a fun

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and a feminine, college, and career fair.

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They're also supposed to two full days of support

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for every senior student to apply to colleges,

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a trade school or other opportunities.

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It was a wonderful moment to make great progress towards our future goals.

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And thank you for our time and consideration.

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If you have any opportunities for our students to leadership,

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to volunteer or support this our city, please reach out.

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We are always happy to help.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Gonzalez.

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Okay, that ends our presentations in announcements.

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Nalasar City Attorney, if there's anything from closed session

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that needs to be reported out.

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No, Mr. Mayor.

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Thank you.

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This time, as is now time for public comments, at this time members of the public may address the council on matters not listed on the agenda,

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then the subject matter jurisdiction of the city council provided that no action may be taken on off agenda items unless authorized by law.

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Public comments are limited to three minutes per speaker.

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First speaker this evening is Greg Arrowsmith, followed by Mel Vernon.

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First of all, I'd like to start off by saying thank you not only for meeting up with me,

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great we appreciate it, thank you for keeping the door open, Jared, I tried reaching out to you

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just to follow I there and I'm here back, trying to meet up with you as well.

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California Brown Act in 1953 in person local government agencies to be transparent with the

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tax being in citizens. Also, by the way, I want to thank the Lincoln Club met up with them yesterday,

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a great, great bunch of people.

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Okay, by the way, I have not received my grandfather's World War II artifacts from the American

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Legion at this time from the last presentation of YI.

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This is a file of presentation from my 401k Millionaire presentation.

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I presented this to the O.C. Board now and presented to you.

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Have a homework assignment for our public and civil servants and taxpayers.

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This is a YouTube video to review.

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California's pension system is collapsing millions could lose everything.

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The focus, California's unfunded pension and liabilities, are ballooning out of control.

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Here's the fixed San Francisco Chronicle by Frank Hoyman, Lisa May 10, 2024.

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The California Public Employee and Retirement System CalPERS has a pension debt of nearly

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half a trillion and is only 72% funded.

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CalPERS is the nation's largest pension fund organization, manages approximately 75% of California

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cities assets. California's total unfunned pension liabilities is 250 billion. Unlike social security

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where employer contribute 6.2, a wages, cities deposit an average of over 25% of their

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payrolls into California's public pension funds. The average retirement benefit distributed

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by California's public pension funds is nearly five times greater than comparable to social

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security benefits. California rule and law gives retirees a legal right to the public pension

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benefits, even if a city can no longer afford them, makes sense, they contribute it throughout

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the years.

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Higher pension costs are a priority obligation, forcing cities to increase taxes or sacrifice

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funding for infrastructure, maintenance, and public safety taxpayers, that's what's going on

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nowadays.

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City services suffer and the tax payers are left with the financial response building mess

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as usual.

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I will add the depreciation value of the taxpayers' real estate properties due to the lack

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infrastructure maintenance and public safety. California should follow the lead of the federal

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government and private sector and ship from defined benefit programs to define contribution

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or 401k type plants. Capital employees total compensation for 2023, 2024. These are their top 10 executives.

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Four executives made over 1,6 million executive made between 792 to 997,000 dollars in a fiscal year.

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First of all, these folks are paid too much, these folks are paid too much for a failing system.

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What do you guys think?

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Thank you, Greg.

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Following Mel Vernon is Craig Ottenosio.

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Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Council.

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I'm one of the volunteer organizers for Indivisible Orange.

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On October 18th, over 8 million people gathered throughout the country

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for no kings day 2.0, and more than 1,700 joined indivisible orange in your will park on

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Chapman Avenue to protect democracy and our constitution.

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This morning 15 of us joined Orange County Rapid Response Network to protect hardworking

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date laborers at Home Depot, on Test and Contella, from racially profiling and kidnapping by

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ICE in violation of their rights in our Constitution.

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Eight days ago, we the people used our vote to resist our third authoritarianism and send

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the message that we will act to save our democracy, one that works for all of us.

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We, the people, will continue to grow our community of engaged neighbors that practice mutual aid

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and community care, educating ourselves for civil engagement and committing to hold elected

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officials accountable from city councils and school boards all the way to Congress.

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Our non-partisan volunteers fighting for progressive values with non-violent actions,

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With model inclusion, that model inclusion, respect and fairness, we partner with our community

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organization to lift up and support a electoral change to realize a government of by and

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for the people in the visible.

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We are in the visible orange, join us on Instagram, come to our weekly Tuesday rally,

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rain or shine at 5 p.m. at the Orange Plaza Circle together we get together we win. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mel and Las Vegas Craig, Otanasio.

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Okay, good evening, Mr. Mayor, council members.

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Thank you for what you do. It's good be back. It's a bit nerve-wracking coming up here to speak.

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I'm not familiar with the venue. I'm feeling very passionate these days.

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So, in the past, I said anything that might be harsh or abusive, I hope you might forget.

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I'm discovering my voice.

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Last time I came here, and I spoke to you about my wife from 23 years, a love of my life.

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She's very warmhearted. She's intelligent. She's a hard worker.

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And best of all, she's a big time sports man.

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It's the best thing that ever happened to me.

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She also happens to be an immigrant.

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She's born in Saigon in 1967 and we all know what happened after that.

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The Communists took over a totalitarian government, her family was forced to relocate into

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this slums where they lived on multi-potatoes and grimy rice.

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Two of her brothers tried to escape the country, got caught and were held in detention camps.

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Her third brother got out in a boat in 1982, came here, bound work, went to school, supported

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family until they can come here in 1992 when she was 25 years old. She had spent the

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formative years of her life living under an oppressive government. She had actually seen people,

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being dragged from their homes by the authorities that night from merely speaking up as I am

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doing here tonight. Now I would ask, in the present direction of our current government,

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Do we discern any departure from the behavior of totalitarian governments that we've seen in the past?

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I don't care if they're communist or fascist, they are cut from the same cloth.

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And I'm sad to see that our country whose history is built upon the feeding this type of government.

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It's going on where it is going now. Now, so my wife, she came here, she took an E.S.L. class, got a job doing assembly work, went to the community college, graduated from Cal State,

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forward to in 2001 where she met who I like to think of good man and she got married and

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today she's working under the controller of the large hospital that she started at 23 years

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ago as a staff accountant. I'm very proud of this one. And that my friends is what makes America

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attention to this matter. Thank you, Craig. That is the public comments. Next is the consent calendar.

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We have a speaker for item 3.5. Are there any other items that my colleagues would like to pull for discussion or questions?

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Mayor, I wanted to pull 3.5 in as well. I have 3.8.

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Okay,

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that's fine.

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And I need to register a no vote on 3.1 or 3.12 to be consistent with my previous vote.

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Very well.

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Okay, I will entertain this man.

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Yes, ma'am.

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Yes, Council Member Gutierrez just did to reiterate her previous vote.

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Do you want it pulled?

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Anyone else?

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Motion to approve the balance by Councilmember Dmitriu. Is there a second?

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Councilmember Tavalleras, any further discussion?

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Seeing none, please vote.

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It's approved with six votes and one absent.

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Okay, item 3.5.

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The agreements with C3 office solutions, LLCDBA, C3 tech,

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to copy your lease and manage the printer services, start with Councilmember Dmitriu.

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Thanks, Mayor. Really on this one, there are a number of items popped up in the contract that

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are concerning that I think having this continued for staff to go back and really evaluate.

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It looks like it's kind of turning into an evergreen contract, which we really shouldn't have

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The contingency, the savings that are listed disappear pretty quickly over the turn of the contract.

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So they're really, I don't really think the savings are really accurate.

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On top of that is we're being charged on a base fee for a certain number of copies that come through this machine, but we're always under.

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So we're actually overpaying on that as well and then we're there's also other charges that are associated with

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higher

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larger

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size copies and such

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00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,320
and as well towards the cyberside

225
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,140
a lot of the equipment that we are paying for lease

226
00:19:03,140 --> 00:19:08,260
is significantly older and I want to make sure that our staff has time to

227
00:19:08,260 --> 00:19:13,300
evaluate the cybersecurity of those items and making sure that we don't have a vulnerability there

228
00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:21,140
there as well. So after our public speaker, I'm going to ask staff, I'm going to ask for a

229
00:19:21,140 --> 00:19:27,580
continuance for a date certain to December 9th meeting for staff to go back, reevaluate

230
00:19:28,260 --> 00:19:32,560
and on top of that is again making sure we're getting the best thing this hasn't been

231
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:38,780
bit out. It's been for a number of years now as a regular contract and that's concerning

232
00:19:38,780 --> 00:19:39,280
to me.

233
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,840
Thank you. Thank you. We do have a speaker for this item.

234
00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:46,140
I'll call Mark Leadsma.

235
00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:58,050
Thank you, Mayor Slayer.

236
00:19:58,530 --> 00:20:00,170
Slater in Council for meeting.

237
00:20:00,450 --> 00:20:01,510
Get up here and speak with you.

238
00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:05,970
In mind of what Councilman Demutri was saying.

239
00:20:07,310 --> 00:20:09,130
I look just five minutes away from here.

240
00:20:09,130 --> 00:20:14,490
I support the community and the city as a volunteer, as a part of the Orange Community Master

241
00:20:14,490 --> 00:20:18,470
grow in the choir there and participate in many city events.

242
00:20:18,810 --> 00:20:20,430
We have the upcoming tree lighting.

243
00:20:21,010 --> 00:20:25,870
I also volunteered my services as the narrator for the July 3rd program over the years.

244
00:20:25,970 --> 00:20:31,610
So I'm concerned for the well-being of Orange and hope the city can overcome the budget challenges.

245
00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:38,490
Regarding 3.5 from analyzing the existing contracts, I found many costly red flags.

246
00:20:38,490 --> 00:20:44,730
The corporation I work for also offers the products and services related to this item and we

247
00:20:44,730 --> 00:20:50,750
can help the city of Orange reduce operating costs by avoiding increasing costs over term and

248
00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:56,970
eliminating overpayment, improving efficiencies in how the city prints and reduce the

249
00:20:56,970 --> 00:20:59,670
vulnerability and risk of cyber threats and attacks.

250
00:21:00,730 --> 00:21:07,550
You see the $50,000 savings in there and I believe that is artificial and does go away.

251
00:21:08,450 --> 00:21:13,130
If you look at the new contract, there's two cost structures, all the equipment and new equipment.

252
00:21:14,110 --> 00:21:17,350
But on the new contract, only 20% of the equipment will be new.

253
00:21:18,530 --> 00:21:20,990
And the current equipment is going on at 7th year.

254
00:21:21,650 --> 00:21:28,030
No new printers, the average age of your printer fleet, which is 199 units, is 13 years.

255
00:21:28,690 --> 00:21:32,030
So that cyber risk becomes greater with the older technology.

256
00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:37,710
I'm here because the past couple of years I've been trying to show my findings with the

257
00:21:37,710 --> 00:21:44,550
city from finance to purchasing to IT with virtually no response, no callbacks, no questions,

258
00:21:44,810 --> 00:21:47,990
no RFP, no opportunity to compete or compare.

259
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:52,170
And there's a bigger issue is how the city prints.

260
00:21:52,850 --> 00:21:59,130
Referring to the cost analysis, your base charges and overages will increase annually, probably

261
00:21:59,130 --> 00:22:01,050
a minimum of 10%.

262
00:22:01,050 --> 00:22:05,190
additional charges and fees pop up shipping charges for supplies, staples,

263
00:22:05,570 --> 00:22:07,970
dock fees, late fees and so on.

264
00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:11,790
The current maintenance rates on your 80% of the equipment you're going to keep is

265
00:22:11,790 --> 00:22:17,930
66% higher than what the 20% new equipment will be, and that's going to cost the city

266
00:22:17,930 --> 00:22:20,490
more than $18,000 a year.

267
00:22:21,690 --> 00:22:28,350
On a bigger note, the current contract for printers has a print volume that is 85% higher

268
00:22:28,350 --> 00:22:31,490
than the actual volume that this city is putting,

269
00:22:31,950 --> 00:22:36,790
that comes out to $61,200 a year paying for nothing.

270
00:22:37,650 --> 00:22:39,670
Hearing that many departments are understaffed,

271
00:22:39,670 --> 00:22:41,550
this could have paid for somebody's job.

272
00:22:44,740 --> 00:22:48,600
On the current invoice that I just received has no volume commitment,

273
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,000
which is ideal for the city.

274
00:22:50,540 --> 00:22:53,260
However, the new contract that being as being proposed

275
00:22:53,940 --> 00:22:57,980
has a new base fee of $6,609 a month,

276
00:22:57,980 --> 00:23:00,020
which is over $80,000 a year.

277
00:23:00,020 --> 00:23:05,300
The new volume commitments are up to 40% higher than the actual.

278
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,040
Thank you, Mr. Leedsman.

279
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,940
Thank you very much for volunteering with the city.

280
00:23:10,380 --> 00:23:11,480
Yes, thank you.

281
00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:15,220
So imagine any issues with postponing this a month?

282
00:23:17,260 --> 00:23:17,520
All right.

283
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,740
With that, I'll make a motion to continue the item to date certain of December 90.

284
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:25,000
Motion by Council Member Dimitri.

285
00:23:25,140 --> 00:23:26,680
Second by Council Member Tavala.

286
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,720
the further discussion?

287
00:23:30,180 --> 00:23:31,940
I'd say notably, oh yes.

288
00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:36,320
I'd said a quick question, and I don't know Mr. City Manager, if you know this,

289
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,820
when was the last time this was bid out, and I asked specifically because I noticed

290
00:23:40,820 --> 00:23:46,440
on the contact information for the contract that it's listed as Mr.

291
00:23:47,620 --> 00:23:50,020
Kilbo, who hasn't been here for four years.

292
00:23:51,620 --> 00:23:57,280
One full question that deferred to our Information Technology Manager, Mr. Steven Skardina.

293
00:23:58,020 --> 00:23:58,540
Good evening.

294
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:05,400
The RFP for this contract was originally led in 2019, and it was approved by this

295
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,740
Council in October of 2019.

296
00:24:10,690 --> 00:24:11,830
Thank you.

297
00:24:16,140 --> 00:24:18,140
Okay, it is a motion and a second.

298
00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:19,980
Any further discussion or questions?

299
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:21,240
Seeing none.

300
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,180
motion that you continue to sign until December 9.

301
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:34,770
That has approved unanimously.

302
00:24:35,630 --> 00:24:36,170
One absence.

303
00:24:36,650 --> 00:24:39,410
Next item is I have 3.6.

304
00:24:39,710 --> 00:24:44,650
The agreement with Chattel Incorporated for preparation of a historic preservation ordinance.

305
00:24:45,370 --> 00:24:48,090
Councilmember Barrio said a question on this.

306
00:24:50,350 --> 00:24:50,910
I did.

307
00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:52,650
I'm looking at the agreement.

308
00:24:53,370 --> 00:24:55,910
I just don't know if there's anyone here to speak on it.

309
00:24:56,390 --> 00:25:00,670
But when we had originally discussed this with or I had discussed it,

310
00:25:00,670 --> 00:25:06,930
want to speak for anyone else. With the city manager, we were looking at something closer to

311
00:25:06,930 --> 00:25:13,390
$50,000, so that seems to have gone up a little bit. Unfortunately, I can't open my notes

312
00:25:13,390 --> 00:25:21,630
that were on my iPad, so to talk about what all the scope of work was. I was just a little

313
00:25:21,630 --> 00:25:28,310
concerned considering all the work that has gone on to date that this is basically look like

314
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:30,150
we were just kind of starting from scratch.

315
00:25:30,530 --> 00:25:32,810
And is that kind of how you're looking at it

316
00:25:32,810 --> 00:25:35,770
because that bothers me quite a bit.

317
00:25:36,810 --> 00:25:38,150
Yeah, good evening, Mayor.

318
00:25:38,550 --> 00:25:43,190
And Council members, initially, the estimated cost was lower

319
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:44,930
but after the last city council meeting

320
00:25:44,930 --> 00:25:48,310
and the additional outreach that Council was discussing

321
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:51,370
with the community, we went back to our consultant team

322
00:25:51,370 --> 00:25:54,510
and we beefed up the scope of work in the task

323
00:25:54,510 --> 00:25:55,850
to include some of that outreach

324
00:25:55,850 --> 00:26:00,210
and the cost associated with that is going to go up.

325
00:26:00,450 --> 00:26:03,790
And that's not to exceed 66, not a minimum.

326
00:26:04,770 --> 00:26:11,370
So the outreach was just to have a minimum one meeting with either the working group

327
00:26:11,370 --> 00:26:18,850
or to allow for a TPA and a lot to come in and have a look and provide comments on it.

328
00:26:19,090 --> 00:26:21,430
So that triggered that much more.

329
00:26:22,330 --> 00:26:29,370
It's not too exceed, so depending on what comes out of the initial meetings, we'd be able

330
00:26:29,370 --> 00:26:33,430
to use as much as we can of the work that's been done, but it also allows them that if

331
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:37,070
we need to do more than that, it's in the contract for him to do it.

332
00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:39,350
We wouldn't have to come back to Council to finish it.

333
00:26:40,330 --> 00:26:45,730
So I don't know if anyone else is interested, but one thing I would like is if I could just

334
00:26:45,730 --> 00:26:53,070
for an update as soon as the initial review is done and that can just go only to me if nobody

335
00:26:53,070 --> 00:26:57,790
else is interested but I would like to know after the initial pass is taken of what we have

336
00:26:57,790 --> 00:27:05,510
today where they think we stand in terms of timing and relative to this contract. Would that be

337
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:11,250
all right to ask for? Yes. I would like an update to that at that point. So thank you very much

338
00:27:11,250 --> 00:27:14,290
And then my second ask is for my council colleagues,

339
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,540
which actually I'm thinking about the one

340
00:27:19,540 --> 00:27:21,160
that's coming later, so I apologize.

341
00:27:21,580 --> 00:27:23,000
I'm those from my questions Mr. Mayor.

342
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:24,620
Great, thank you.

343
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:30,740
I'd like to of course be looped in on that information as well as probably the rest of the

344
00:27:30,740 --> 00:27:32,200
council, might as well.

345
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:33,980
Calcimer Gutiers.

346
00:27:39,660 --> 00:27:40,700
Thank you.

347
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:49,140
And 15 is development of innovative or best preservation incentives in refining Mills Act program

348
00:27:49,140 --> 00:27:49,800
requirements.

349
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,020
I don't remember us discussing that last time.

350
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,300
I'm glad that that's here.

351
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:02,480
But my question to staff is, over a month ago, I asked for an update on where we were at

352
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,280
the Mills Act as I thought was something you were working with the working group as well.

353
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:13,180
And to date, I have not heard a thing as to what the outcome of that work was with that group.

354
00:28:13,740 --> 00:28:23,520
And I would say that whatever they created, that should be also offered to shut up cattle so that they can also have something to start working with.

355
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:29,480
But I really wouldn't like that update since I asked for it over a month ago and I never received it.

356
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,500
We all didn't receive it.

357
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:45,520
And I also noticed that in a very thankful that the working group is going to have a meeting with them and a meeting with city staff as well, I read that and then they will go through and do their draft.

358
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:55,840
And it seems like and correct me if I'm wrong, the draft will come to city staff, but will it go to the back to the working group so that they could also have input as well.

359
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,520
besides city staff having input?

360
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,300
Yes, sir.

361
00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:02,760
Yes, sir.

362
00:29:03,060 --> 00:29:03,520
Yes, sir.

363
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:03,980
Yes, sir.

364
00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:08,220
That's why I needed my notes.

365
00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:13,180
I was really concerned that the Mills Act was in here, and I needed to be pulled and separated

366
00:29:13,180 --> 00:29:17,920
because both myself and the mayor have conflicts of interest where the Mills Act is concerned.

367
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:24,040
So we can't, this immediately makes it something that we cannot vote on if that is included.

368
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,400
So those need to be separated out.

369
00:29:28,690 --> 00:29:29,910
Thank you for bringing it out.

370
00:29:29,910 --> 00:29:35,550
I just Councilmember Barrios, you are correct that if the mayor and you wear to recuse yourselves

371
00:29:35,550 --> 00:29:41,850
because of the conflict of the Mills Act, my recommendation can be that the scope of services

372
00:29:41,850 --> 00:29:46,710
can be amended by the City Council if you choose to tonight and we consider coming back

373
00:29:47,250 --> 00:29:52,810
for a separate vote without the both of you if that's also an option.

374
00:29:53,250 --> 00:29:53,950
Thank you very much.

375
00:29:54,510 --> 00:29:59,430
Well can I jump in and say again that is why we need to know what is the outcome of the working

376
00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:59,970
great work.

377
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:08,000
Work with the Mills Act, and we can decide whether or not we even need chattled to do to help us with what we're

378
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,660
going with the Mills Act. I don't know. So this is why we need this Sunday.

379
00:30:12,420 --> 00:30:14,140
Great, but we can't discuss it.

380
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:14,640
I agree.

381
00:30:15,740 --> 00:30:24,000
So Mr. Mayor, with that being said, what I would like to do is to move this item with the removal, and

382
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,980
I don't know what that does to the overall budget with the removal of anything related to the Mills Act

383
00:30:27,980 --> 00:30:33,480
to be brought back at that time certain when it can be loaded on separately.

384
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:35,760
I,

385
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,160
as a motion, is there a set?

386
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,400
Great. Thank you.

387
00:30:42,100 --> 00:30:42,840
Yes, sir.

388
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,000
I might just add to this.

389
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:49,560
Maybe before we have a separation of all the things, this was just a scope of work.

390
00:30:49,580 --> 00:30:51,580
There's no content yet proposed.

391
00:30:52,220 --> 00:30:57,360
Typically historic preservation ordinance would include provisions of a

392
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:03,400
program, the city has meals, that program there's no real process or anything and document to

393
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:10,080
did our current municipal code. So this is the scope of work to include that into the municipal

394
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:18,920
code. There's no details about it specifically. And I'll just ask the city attorney at the way it

395
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,580
As a gendize, if that can move forward, or thank

396
00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:29,210
you if I may.

397
00:31:31,150 --> 00:31:36,090
The ordinance may reference sections of the ordinance may reference a Mills Act program.

398
00:31:37,710 --> 00:31:41,890
I would defer to the consultant who's sitting in the audience and can answer some questions,

399
00:31:42,770 --> 00:31:48,670
but specifics with regards to the Mills Act program can certainly be brought at a later

400
00:31:48,670 --> 00:31:49,010
date.

401
00:31:49,010 --> 00:31:50,950
but I would defer to the consultant in the audience

402
00:31:51,790 --> 00:31:54,730
if a historic preservation ordinance should

403
00:31:54,730 --> 00:31:58,210
or should not have references to Mills Act in it, right?

404
00:31:58,570 --> 00:31:59,730
I understand what you're saying.

405
00:32:00,150 --> 00:32:04,370
I don't think it's a conflict tonight to approve the scope of work,

406
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:09,030
but any time we bring back an update specifically

407
00:32:09,030 --> 00:32:11,710
for Mills Act and program refinement,

408
00:32:11,950 --> 00:32:13,750
we will certainly notify the city council,

409
00:32:13,930 --> 00:32:17,830
so the mayor and Council Member Barrios, oral chooses us.

410
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:24,230
So, it might be more about connectivity to the ordinance versus the actual specificity, okay?

411
00:32:26,850 --> 00:32:30,290
Did you want to withdraw your motion then, or?

412
00:32:34,900 --> 00:32:36,860
I will motion to approve it as it stands.

413
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,500
On the second, or is fine with that?

414
00:32:41,690 --> 00:32:41,970
Yes.

415
00:32:44,540 --> 00:32:47,520
Any further discussion or questions on behalf of Council?

416
00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:50,620
Seeing none, please vote.

417
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,820
That has approved six votes and one absent.

418
00:33:02,220 --> 00:33:12,360
Okay, item 3.8, which is, acceptance and appropriation of 853,000 in Orange County Transportation

419
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,220
Authority, Congestion, Mitigation, Air Quality Improvement Program, Grant Funds, and

420
00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:22,920
Appropriation of 16,000 in Match Funds, and Sandy Out Creek, Bike, Trail Extension, Project,

421
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,340
Council Member, to meet you.

422
00:33:24,780 --> 00:33:29,900
Real quickly, I'm not against this obviously, this is a good project, I just wanted to

423
00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:35,220
now that it's nice to see us work so diligently on a project where we're funded and we're

424
00:33:35,220 --> 00:33:38,340
able to get across the finish line on another portion.

425
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,660
I also want to bring up that one of the initial extensions of this project was actually

426
00:33:44,660 --> 00:33:51,340
through Mayor Pro Tempillado really started the whole thing off back in the, back a number

427
00:33:51,340 --> 00:33:57,320
of years ago with another board that he sits on with a contribution from that agency

428
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:04,280
of Land Two make this original start around the Bond Pits available.

429
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,200
So, with that, I will move this item.

430
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,440
Motion by Councilor Vardomichre looking for a second,

431
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:16,660
council member of Good Tierers.

432
00:34:16,980 --> 00:34:18,560
Just a quick point.

433
00:34:18,860 --> 00:34:25,460
I know I'm gonna drive the public works direct to CREISE, but it has Seves have been taken

434
00:34:25,460 --> 00:34:28,700
to reach out to the Mainbury Ranch folks yet.

435
00:34:30,910 --> 00:34:42,890
member of the Council. In fact, we met with Mayberry Ranch this afternoon. We have another meeting coming up with OPA and we will continue to probably have some additional dialogue after those meetings.

436
00:34:43,390 --> 00:34:49,730
Fantastic. Thank you very much. Any other questions or discussion? Please vote.

437
00:34:55,460 --> 00:35:05,620
Approved with six votes. One absent. Okay, the last consent calendar item is I am 3.12.

438
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:11,740
Second reading and adoption of an ordinance of the City Council of the City of Orange and ending title 12.

439
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:21,700
Title 16 and Title 17 of the Orange and Municipal Code to update duties and responsibility of a designer view committee ordinance number 18-25.

440
00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:24,420
of Council Member Barrios.

441
00:35:28,130 --> 00:35:29,650
Yes, Mr. Mayor, thank you for.

442
00:35:29,930 --> 00:35:31,970
While I realized this is the second reading,

443
00:35:32,330 --> 00:35:36,310
I would ask again if my colleagues would consider

444
00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:42,070
putting in a sunset into this particular action.

445
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:44,990
Again, as a show, good faith to our community,

446
00:35:45,070 --> 00:35:47,350
to those who had worked so hard to get us

447
00:35:47,350 --> 00:35:49,510
to honor our promises from the past

448
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:53,630
and our current promises, and so I'm throwing that out there

449
00:35:53,630 --> 00:35:56,990
One more, seeing if my colleagues would agree to adding

450
00:35:56,990 --> 00:35:59,510
not as a show of good faith.

451
00:36:07,490 --> 00:36:08,290
Do you have it, do you have one?

452
00:36:08,990 --> 00:36:12,590
I think when we did it last time, we did it as June.

453
00:36:15,210 --> 00:36:18,450
So would kind of coincide with the fiscal year?

454
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:23,100
The only, I'll speak for myself, obviously,

455
00:36:23,420 --> 00:36:26,700
but the only sense that I'd look at is greater than five years.

456
00:36:27,660 --> 00:36:31,220
I think there's, I mean, the change needs to happen,

457
00:36:31,220 --> 00:36:38,220
But I can see your point that may be revisiting an item is valid, but it has to have some time to actually cook.

458
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:51,720
Well, the idea was that both of these things, whether it's this change or the change with the historic preservation ordinance that we're looking at shadow, which we just approved tonight.

459
00:36:51,720 --> 00:37:01,660
That timeline in there was about four to six months, somewhere in theirs, what they were anticipating that work would take, so that would come back to us.

460
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:12,880
So again, just as they show a faith that we were aligning to that, that we are really kind of committed to it in such a way that if we do not get that done,

461
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:19,460
that for any reason stalls or doesn't get finished, that we would put pressure on ourselves

462
00:37:19,460 --> 00:37:25,360
as we promise the community we would that the DRC ordinance as we are looking to change its

463
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:31,280
night in the second reading would fall back to the way it was. So again, I think we're going to

464
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,260
get there. I have everything we're going to get there, but this is a way to show the community that

465
00:37:36,260 --> 00:37:39,720
we are serious and intentional about what we're trying to do.

466
00:37:40,620 --> 00:37:51,920
So maybe rather than a sunset, timeline is perhaps benchmarking that if certain goals aren't met by either staff,

467
00:37:52,460 --> 00:37:58,540
chat um, chat um, or what have you at that point then we revisit the item as a discussion,

468
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,440
an agenda discussion with that.

469
00:38:01,780 --> 00:38:04,140
I think this point I would be equally happy to do that.

470
00:38:04,140 --> 00:38:07,980
that that comes back for discussion, you know, at the beginning of June to see where we are.

471
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:09,880
We're ready to do both things together.

472
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:17,740
I think maybe there's a win there because obviously to keep the pressure on staff to

473
00:38:17,740 --> 00:38:23,780
make sure the process flows, make sure the change is complete, however, and whichever

474
00:38:23,780 --> 00:38:29,040
direction because there may be something that does pop out between now and then.

475
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:36,560
It says, you know, pump the brakes, maybe that would be doable and I don't mind benchmarking

476
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,540
something and making sure that we reach a conclusion that that works.

477
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,920
I just want to, you know, kind of move forward in good faith.

478
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,800
And that's to me the most important thing.

479
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,220
This has been something sitting in our plans for over 15 years.

480
00:38:53,460 --> 00:38:58,080
There's never been, this is as close as we've ever gotten that I've ever seen in that 15 years.

481
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:03,120
and I just don't want to let the community down where we have given our word, we have made promises,

482
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:09,280
we have had people come and work on our behalf and all of that right now or at our last meeting

483
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:16,120
seemed in real jeopardy. So I can compromise to a benchmark at the beginning of June.

484
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:24,520
So that's for. And Mr. City Attorney, how would we, would that change anything or is that just

485
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,520
direction of staff that we want, but how does it work?

486
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,040
Council member Barrios, procedurally if a Sunset provision is added to the draft ordinance

487
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,420
tonight, staff would need to come back for a free feeding.

488
00:39:35,860 --> 00:39:36,440
No, not a free training.

489
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:37,360
It's not a Sunset.

490
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:37,960
No, I know.

491
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,040
But I sort of just explain the procedural difference.

492
00:39:40,620 --> 00:39:45,480
So if that were the case, but since we are discussing the benchmark aspect of it, then

493
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:52,640
that would, the second reading could proceed tonight as agenda is and that would be a,

494
00:39:53,280 --> 00:40:03,180
that would not change the ordinance and therefore the staff can come back at the date and come back with a benchmark report.

495
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,420
We can certainly provide a status update.

496
00:40:05,620 --> 00:40:09,420
I'm looking at the 2026 calendar in the meeting would be June 9th.

497
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:14,300
The city clerk can add it to the agenda and we'll just provide a status update at that time.

498
00:40:14,380 --> 00:40:15,300
If that works.

499
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,240
Yes, thank you.

500
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:20,840
Okay, for a motion

501
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:28,840
your motion is

502
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:31,280
Council Mayor to meet your

503
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,880
It was the second reading so I'll move to approve with the caveat that

504
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,900
That would be a paradise for review

505
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,020
To nine. Thank you June 9

506
00:40:48,220 --> 00:40:49,840
That's as five city attorney

507
00:40:51,020 --> 00:40:53,020
Yes, Mr. Mayor. Sir second

508
00:41:01,210 --> 00:41:02,450
No second

509
00:41:06,740 --> 00:41:09,060
Then I have side of the motion to fails

510
00:41:11,740 --> 00:41:19,500
Looking for I'll I'll move to have have the second reading I'll second that motion

511
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,580
be to there we go

512
00:41:29,950 --> 00:41:38,360
right I would I appreciate your tenacity customer

513
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:45,300
barrios I am very very confident that we're going to get this across the finish line

514
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:48,480
please vote

515
00:41:57,380 --> 00:42:03,540
council member Guteris, but I have to even know I already registered a new vote.

516
00:42:05,580 --> 00:42:08,140
I need a vote. Yeah, okay.

517
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,820
The motion fails council members borrow some each of your Guteris.

518
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,020
Traveler is voting no.

519
00:42:21,580 --> 00:42:24,060
Do you want to try again council member Guteris?

520
00:42:24,700 --> 00:42:26,180
I want to try again Mr. Guteris.

521
00:42:26,340 --> 00:42:27,220
I can't.

522
00:42:27,220 --> 00:42:47,100
Okay. I, I, I, I move that we move this ordinance forward on this second reading with the caveat that we have a review on June the ninth time certain to I don't know to review to discuss where we're aligned with that and our other projects.

523
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,140
And I will second that.

524
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:59,250
Any further discussion? Please vote. Let's see if we can get this done here.

525
00:43:17,830 --> 00:43:23,650
This motion is approved to five to one Council Member Gutierrez voting no and one abstention.

526
00:43:26,420 --> 00:43:29,710
So we get it done. Folks. Thank you.

527
00:43:30,570 --> 00:43:35,170
Okay, reports from nurse later, I don't have anything.

528
00:43:36,010 --> 00:43:40,810
I know that we have a local business highlight from Councilmember Goodsieras.

529
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:49,410
Before that, I wanted to ask Councilmember Barrios if she'd like to report on the treason

530
00:43:49,410 --> 00:43:49,930
of streets.

531
00:43:51,250 --> 00:43:51,670
I would.

532
00:43:52,570 --> 00:43:59,390
I almost wish I had taken some time to talk to Chief Javak before, because I know how it

533
00:43:59,390 --> 00:44:05,390
on the street in terms of the crowds and and this is my favorite event of the year. I love it.

534
00:44:05,450 --> 00:44:11,630
I'm so proud that Randy Romero and I got together last year to save it at this year. We had the

535
00:44:11,630 --> 00:44:18,090
added bonus of being entered the umbrella of the Orange International Street Fair. So everything ran so smoothly.

536
00:44:19,130 --> 00:44:28,130
Fire, our public works, our community services group and particularly PD and did a great job of

537
00:44:28,130 --> 00:44:34,890
making sure everyone was safe everybody had a good time. I think we actually didn't run out

538
00:44:34,890 --> 00:44:40,290
of candy this time. I'm not 100% sure, but I think we didn't run out of candy, but it felt

539
00:44:40,290 --> 00:44:45,750
like street fair packed, and I've never seen so many cute kids and family costumes, and you

540
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:51,390
could just see all the joy and all the people who were there. So many great sponsors and last

541
00:44:51,390 --> 00:44:56,390
minute sponsors who came in with candy, which was amazing. So the whole thing was completely

542
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:59,970
covered by donations, including the money we started out.

543
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:27,440
With, because we made money last year, so I think not going to win. And I did have one special shout out. I had personally sent thank yous to so many of our city staff, but two people who I did not call out, but I had texted myself their names. And this is Carlos and Ben with public works. And they were rock stars. Helping cleanup get set up in the, before we started the event and being there afterwards.

544
00:45:28,140 --> 00:45:33,500
Just, you know, I know there are hourly employees who don't get a lot of love and attention.

545
00:45:33,700 --> 00:45:40,340
I know we have talked about bringing people to give great service to recognize them at our

546
00:45:40,340 --> 00:45:44,600
council meetings, but they gave absolutely phenomenal rock star service.

547
00:45:45,020 --> 00:45:49,600
And they were just everybody's hero and I know that that was the same last year.

548
00:45:50,140 --> 00:45:53,740
So please convey our thanks for everything they did.

549
00:45:53,740 --> 00:46:01,240
Yeah, and lots and lots of participation from other organizations, you know, everybody loves to pet the goats.

550
00:46:01,980 --> 00:46:09,220
So this is very fun. And I think it was our city manager's first time attending as well with his family, so thank you Mr. Mayor.

551
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,800
Thanks for that great report, and Kathy, I'm sorry, Council Mayor Toddlers.

552
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:24,280
I just wanted to much like on a so beautifully does Councilman Gutierrez, the business of the month.

553
00:46:25,220 --> 00:46:29,660
I wanted to put a highlight on UCI Medical Center, UCI Hospital.

554
00:46:31,100 --> 00:46:36,800
You guys have probably heard about an accident that was in the paper today after two soccer players in Cal State.

555
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,360
Fullerton, who were hit by a box truck while they were on an electric scooter.

556
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,420
One of those girls is a family friend of ours.

557
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:46,280
She passed away this week.

558
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:47,380
Her team is Lauren Turner.

559
00:46:47,780 --> 00:46:48,800
Noter since she was a baby.

560
00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:52,140
But I want to thank UCI and Chad Lyftaris,

561
00:46:52,380 --> 00:46:54,440
who's the president there, for taking such good care

562
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,380
of the girls for six weeks.

563
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,040
They weren't in Duzcoma for brain injury,

564
00:47:00,180 --> 00:47:01,180
because they weren't wearing helmets.

565
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,580
The school had given them the scooters.

566
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,060
But they were hit in Fullerton on an associated road.

567
00:47:09,060 --> 00:47:14,920
And they took them straight to UCI Medical Center because UCI is the number one trauma center.

568
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,300
And that is something that we can all be very proud of.

569
00:47:18,540 --> 00:47:25,580
And so I got the call and I called Chad and they took really good care of the girls.

570
00:47:27,260 --> 00:47:30,360
Ashlyn who survived is getting checked out this weekend.

571
00:47:30,540 --> 00:47:31,920
She's going to be going to a brain facility.

572
00:47:32,820 --> 00:47:36,660
And she used it for two weeks and then she has two years of rehab at her home in Utah.

573
00:47:37,380 --> 00:47:42,140
Unfortunately, Lauren didn't make it, so with that, I know it's sad news, but I also want

574
00:47:42,140 --> 00:47:47,520
to be very grateful to our city and to our doctors and nurses who take care, because

575
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,840
there are people coming from Fullerton and all over the county to be treated at UCI, and

576
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,620
we are so lucky and so blessed to have them here.

577
00:47:53,980 --> 00:47:57,980
So, thank you again to UCI and all the doctors and the nurses who took care of such a good

578
00:47:57,980 --> 00:47:58,300
care for.

579
00:47:59,660 --> 00:48:00,540
Thank you.

580
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:06,620
Thank you for that report, Councilmember, and please wear helmets and make a difference.

581
00:48:06,620 --> 00:48:08,840
How many can you do?

582
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:12,170
Councilmember Gutiers.

583
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:20,730
Mine is not a business highlight this week or this meeting.

584
00:48:21,150 --> 00:48:29,010
It is a community event announcement and I am very happy to announce and proud to announce

585
00:48:29,010 --> 00:48:37,950
that our own orange community historical society is sponsoring this free event at our main branch library

586
00:48:37,950 --> 00:48:48,270
next Tuesday, November 18th from 530 to 7 p.m. And it is highlighting the most impactful

587
00:48:48,270 --> 00:48:55,710
educational law that occurred here in the city of Orange and California. And it is going

588
00:48:55,710 --> 00:49:02,850
to be paneling the Marist family of El Medina, the Guzman family from Santana, the Palamino

589
00:49:02,850 --> 00:49:08,190
family from garden grove and the strata family from West

590
00:49:08,190 --> 00:49:14,330
Minister because they are the unknown families that people forget about the

591
00:49:14,330 --> 00:49:20,010
Mendus-Werswerswers Minister lawsuit so it's separate but not equal in placing the

592
00:49:20,010 --> 00:49:22,270
at all back into the Mendus-Werswerswers Minister.

593
00:49:22,930 --> 00:49:31,310
Again, this was at 1947, Landmark decision that helped desegregate our schools

594
00:49:31,310 --> 00:49:32,550
throughout all California.

595
00:49:33,530 --> 00:49:34,810
So this is very historical.

596
00:49:35,070 --> 00:49:35,950
This is the second time.

597
00:49:35,950 --> 00:49:39,290
The main library has sponsored something like this,

598
00:49:39,310 --> 00:49:41,590
but this is being sponsored, like I said,

599
00:49:41,730 --> 00:49:44,570
by our own Orange Community Historical Society.

600
00:49:45,430 --> 00:49:48,730
I invite everybody in the community who would like to listen

601
00:49:48,730 --> 00:49:51,430
to this panel, who would like to learn more about this,

602
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:53,950
and featured in this photograph is actually Mr. Ramirez

603
00:49:53,950 --> 00:49:57,770
and his wife, Josefina, and there are two oldest sons

604
00:49:57,770 --> 00:50:00,370
that were those two boys that weren't being allowed

605
00:50:00,370 --> 00:50:05,690
to go to school back in 1946, 45, sorry.

606
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:11,590
So I'm welcoming the community at large to come next Tuesday

607
00:50:11,590 --> 00:50:16,810
to our main library and learn and be witnesses to what

608
00:50:16,810 --> 00:50:17,710
happened in history.

609
00:50:18,650 --> 00:50:22,750
And again, this important, the most important educational

610
00:50:22,750 --> 00:50:25,490
thing that has occurred here in our city limits

611
00:50:25,490 --> 00:50:28,950
in the Almanina area is something that we should all know about.

612
00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:31,450
So I'm inviting everybody to come on out.

613
00:50:31,610 --> 00:50:35,450
Excuse me, and thank you to the Orange Community Historical Society for putting this on.

614
00:50:36,550 --> 00:50:37,330
And that's it.

615
00:50:37,590 --> 00:50:38,010
Thank you.

616
00:50:38,210 --> 00:50:41,450
Council members for bringing that up and mentioning it.

617
00:50:43,130 --> 00:50:43,530
All right.

618
00:50:44,070 --> 00:50:45,270
Any other council members?

619
00:50:46,750 --> 00:50:47,070
All right.

620
00:50:47,510 --> 00:50:50,130
Item six, AB 1, 2, 3, 4 reports.

621
00:50:50,310 --> 00:50:51,970
Any council members have anything?

622
00:50:53,730 --> 00:50:54,270
Seeing none.

623
00:50:54,810 --> 00:50:56,590
Item seven reports from city manager?

624
00:50:57,490 --> 00:50:58,330
Nothing tonight, sir.

625
00:50:58,330 --> 00:51:06,110
All right. Moving on to public hearings. First one is item 8.1. A public hearing to consider

626
00:51:06,110 --> 00:51:10,870
the second reading and adoption of an ordinance. The City Council of the City of Orange

627
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:16,890
in many Title 15 of the Orange Municipal Code, adopting and amending the 2025 editions of

628
00:51:16,890 --> 00:51:24,470
the California Building Standards Codes, 20525 California Building, 2025 California Residential

629
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:32,930
the 2025 California Plumbing Code, the 2025 California Green Building Code, and the 2025 California

630
00:51:32,930 --> 00:51:39,910
Electrical Code, ordinance number 16-25. Again, this is the second reading. Is anyone want

631
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:43,430
to staff report? Questions of staff?

632
00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:48,400
This is a public hearing. I'm now opening the public hearing.

633
00:51:50,970 --> 00:51:55,870
Seeing no speakers, the public hearing is now closed and we have a motion from Council Member

634
00:51:55,870 --> 00:52:02,190
Good to hear us at a second from Councilmember Barrios to approve the second reading.

635
00:52:02,590 --> 00:52:03,970
Does the ordinance need to be read?

636
00:52:04,690 --> 00:52:06,250
Not for the second reading, Mayor.

637
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:06,750
Great.

638
00:52:06,750 --> 00:52:07,770
Thank you so much.

639
00:52:08,050 --> 00:52:08,790
Please vote.

640
00:52:15,110 --> 00:52:23,090
As approved of six with one absent item eight point two is a public hearing to consider second

641
00:52:23,090 --> 00:52:27,090
reading and adoption of an ordinance of the City Council of the City of Orange adopting

642
00:52:27,090 --> 00:52:34,950
the 2025 California Wildland Urban Interface Code and the 2025 California Fire Code adding

643
00:52:34,950 --> 00:52:42,430
chapter of 15.31 and the Mending Chapter 15.32 of the Orange Municipal Code or this number

644
00:52:42,430 --> 00:52:49,230
17-25 with anyone like a staff report on this, any questions of staff?

645
00:52:51,740 --> 00:52:52,760
This is a public hearing.

646
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,060
I'm now opening the public hearing, are there any speakers?

647
00:52:58,700 --> 00:53:00,760
Seeing none, the public hearing is now closed.

648
00:53:01,020 --> 00:53:03,080
We have a motion from Council Member Barrios,

649
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,260
and a second from Council Member Gutierrez.

650
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:07,160
Any further discussion?

651
00:53:08,140 --> 00:53:09,620
Seeing none, please vote.

652
00:53:15,340 --> 00:53:18,520
Approved six votes in one absent.

653
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:21,820
Administrative reports.

654
00:53:22,540 --> 00:53:24,760
First, one is out of 9.1.

655
00:53:25,020 --> 00:53:27,200
Executive Management and Senior Management

656
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:36,480
Employees Classification, Compensation and Term of Employment, Resolution Number 11644, anyone

657
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,220
like a staff report? Any questions of staff?

658
00:53:43,050 --> 00:53:46,830
Any council discussion? We have a motion

659
00:53:46,830 --> 00:53:51,050
room council member, Goochias to approve. There are second,

660
00:53:56,020 --> 00:53:57,440
second from council member

661
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:01,960
to meet you. Any further discussion? Seeing none, please vote.

662
00:54:07,330 --> 00:54:08,690
As approved with six votes

663
00:54:08,690 --> 00:54:17,650
in one absent, item 9.2, consider changes to resolution number 11597, regained the city's

664
00:54:17,650 --> 00:54:26,710
safe and sane fireworks program. And I think we may have questions for staff here, Jack's

665
00:54:26,710 --> 00:54:35,610
ready to go. I have some questions, but I will first ask my colleagues if they have any.

666
00:54:41,820 --> 00:54:44,340
Okay, so we are good. I was okay. Go ahead, Jack.

667
00:54:44,780 --> 00:54:50,500
Thank you, Mayor and Council members. So on February 11th, 2025, the Council adopted resolution

668
00:54:50,500 --> 00:54:57,600
number 11 at 597. And this adopted the procedures and policies for staff to take applications

669
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,600
from non-profit organizations and really start issuing

670
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,120
safe and safe fireworks permits.

671
00:55:03,060 --> 00:55:05,180
So on top of that, it also included our fee process.

672
00:55:05,540 --> 00:55:07,520
And like I said, the application and lottery process,

673
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,040
the criteria for non-profit organizations,

674
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,240
those who can really participate

675
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:14,280
typically orange based on profits.

676
00:55:15,260 --> 00:55:16,840
Material that must be submitted to the Orange Fire

677
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,340
Department as well as insurance and indemnity requirements.

678
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,420
With the safe and safe fireworks program,

679
00:55:22,500 --> 00:55:24,840
now completed, our first year doing it,

680
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:34,020
We received feedback from some of the wholesalers as well as nonprofits and then also just based on staff experience and implementing this program for the first year.

681
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:43,780
And so we developed a series of five potential recommendations that can be incorporated into a new resolution to possibly help streamline the process.

682
00:55:43,780 --> 00:55:51,000
So as you shown on the slide here, one is to reduce the number of maximum permits from 12 to 8.

683
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,980
As a reminder, we are already giving four to our local high schools.

684
00:55:56,500 --> 00:55:59,360
So the council decides to move it down to 8.

685
00:55:59,500 --> 00:56:04,380
That would mean that we would only lottery up four permits to qualify organizations.

686
00:56:05,300 --> 00:56:08,260
That we move the application process back to January.

687
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,620
It's currently in March, and that a lottery would be held in February or March.

688
00:56:12,620 --> 00:56:18,180
extending the permit to two years or prohibiting or and or prohibiting qualified organizations

689
00:56:18,180 --> 00:56:22,580
from participating in the lottery for one year after having received the safe and safe

690
00:56:22,580 --> 00:56:27,420
fireworks permit and then also removing the prohibition on affiliated non-profit or educational

691
00:56:27,420 --> 00:56:32,960
organizations from participating. Overall the purpose of this item is for council to discuss,

692
00:56:32,980 --> 00:56:36,640
provide any feedback on any of these changes, if you'd like to see this incorporated,

693
00:56:37,260 --> 00:56:41,940
a staff will go back to the developer resolution so these can be applied for the upcoming year.

694
00:56:41,940 --> 00:56:43,520
That concludes my overview.

695
00:56:43,780 --> 00:56:44,880
Be happy to answer any questions.

696
00:56:45,940 --> 00:56:46,120
Great.

697
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:48,500
Gauzeburg, good to hear us.

698
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:49,360
Good job, questions.

699
00:56:50,020 --> 00:56:50,500
It did.

700
00:56:51,100 --> 00:56:57,560
So I was curious and you answered some of my questions and regards to where do these recommendations

701
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:58,300
come from.

702
00:56:58,560 --> 00:56:59,840
So thank you for sharing that.

703
00:57:00,380 --> 00:57:07,340
And so reducing it from 12 to 8 was the experience of the wholesalers and the nonprofit

704
00:57:07,340 --> 00:57:11,920
saying we didn't sell as much because there were too many or what's the reasoning for

705
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:13,100
or reducing the amount?

706
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,560
That particular one was really been driven by one of the whole

707
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:22,000
sailors because the city has really divided the community in half

708
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,600
because of East Orange we wanted to avoid not only using same

709
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:27,320
same fireworks but also selling them there.

710
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:32,240
So when we have 12, their thought was that kind of oversaturates

711
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,820
the area and we had some nonprofits who performed really well

712
00:57:35,820 --> 00:57:38,820
and then there's others that there was a big disparity.

713
00:57:38,820 --> 00:57:42,980
You have from like 80,000 in gross sales down to 13,000 in gross sales.

714
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:47,900
But so there thought was that by limiting the number of non-profits that are participating

715
00:57:48,700 --> 00:57:51,060
that they all collectively can do better.

716
00:57:53,160 --> 00:58:03,440
And then my other question was, in regards to the elimination of Section E, can you just walk

717
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:08,700
through that as like the reasoning, I think I know the reason because I recall hearing some issues

718
00:58:08,700 --> 00:58:13,080
with that last year in the emails that we were receiving, but can you walk us through as

719
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:18,540
why we would want to remove all of that section? So we have currently it's written that

720
00:58:18,540 --> 00:58:25,260
nonprofits or educational based groups located in Orange, I cannot submit multiple applications and

721
00:58:25,260 --> 00:58:29,440
include from their affiliated organizations as we were going through this we've noticed that a lot of

722
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:31,440
on-profits are interconnected.

723
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,240
And so even though they may be a standalone 501, C3,

724
00:58:35,580 --> 00:58:39,000
they still are connected to a larger or non-profit.

725
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:42,580
And so this would help make it a little bit more streamlined.

726
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,240
Staff wouldn't have to do a certain level of digging

727
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,120
and finding if there is a necessary between one group

728
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:48,860
to another.

729
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:51,520
And so really, if that's removed,

730
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,020
it would just be a specific non-profit

731
00:58:54,020 --> 00:58:57,880
cancement to applications to the city.

732
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:08,920
So, this would help make it a little bit easier as we're receiving these applications and then as we're advancing them on to the lottery process, so long as they meet all the other qualifications that are listed.

733
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:23,580
Okay, and then in regards to either allowing them to have it for two years or not or the next year whoever got it, doesn't get it again, is that a suggestion that came from the non-profits or the wholesale?

734
00:59:23,580 --> 00:59:29,260
That came from a nonprofit, because this was the first year, I think they were rallying

735
00:59:29,260 --> 00:59:32,240
to get different volunteers, kind of figure all this out.

736
00:59:32,660 --> 00:59:37,140
So that first year for any nonprofit, it's going to be a learning curve, and then they

737
00:59:37,140 --> 00:59:41,200
will go through that year, and then they'll have everything lined up for a second year.

738
00:59:41,820 --> 00:59:45,960
They do it out there as an option that they wanted the city to consider.

739
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:48,280
That's why it's before the council tonight.

740
00:59:49,380 --> 00:59:59,960
I believe one of the council members brought previous to this is back in May, the option of a qualified organization if they receive a permit after going to the lottery process.

741
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:09,880
That's that they would be removed for one year, just to ensure that they don't get it for a second year and that you're kind of providing a more equal playing field.

742
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:18,980
And so, those ones, I mean, if the council would like, we can take both of those or one or the other or how really council sees fit.

743
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:20,800
Okay. All right.

744
01:00:22,620 --> 01:00:27,780
I was going to ask something else, and I can leave for that, but I'll come back to me. All right. Thank you.

745
01:00:27,780 --> 01:00:34,120
For a go-to-to-consumer to meet you, I'm going to suggest probably to simplify this

746
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:44,040
is that we go item by item and vote on each one individually, because I think trying to get

747
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:51,020
to a resolution that includes everything might be a little more difficult, so that was

748
01:00:51,020 --> 01:00:51,880
my thought.

749
01:00:52,100 --> 01:00:53,220
Mr. Mayor, if I may?

750
01:00:53,900 --> 01:01:00,740
Tonight's item staff is only asking for direction tonight, so legally speaking, the motions are not technically required.

751
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:07,660
However, my recommendation would be, since the former resolution will come back incorporating your direction tonight,

752
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:11,400
the council will have an opportunity to vote on it at a separate time.

753
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:21,620
For the sake of the conversation, my recommendation would be, if you go item by item and the direction is clear to staff, then I think they'll be able to take their notes and then go back.

754
01:01:21,620 --> 01:01:25,180
So if we go 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, that would be my recommendation.

755
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:26,800
Thank you.

756
01:01:27,060 --> 01:01:28,000
Council member Dimitri.

757
01:01:28,580 --> 01:01:29,100
Thank you, Jack.

758
01:01:29,100 --> 01:01:31,620
Can you put that slide back up?

759
01:01:32,180 --> 01:01:33,380
Or, somebody, thanks.

760
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:39,380
So starting with the 12 to 8 for the permits.

761
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:48,680
So the question that the Councilwoman Gutierrez asked was, was this wholesale driven or from

762
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:49,320
the non-profits?

763
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:54,260
And I understand there was a sliding scale on some made more than the others, which is kind of expected.

764
01:01:55,100 --> 01:02:01,240
But in the entire West End of Orange there was one boot that I saw, which was at the block.

765
01:02:01,420 --> 01:02:02,880
Everything else was a long custom avenue.

766
01:02:03,980 --> 01:02:12,860
So I'm not really sure specifically towards kind of spreading that out if it wouldn't have generated or had a different outcome.

767
01:02:12,860 --> 01:02:21,640
Now, that's near their, near their hair, they're there, but it is a learning opportunity on locations and dispersals.

768
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:33,860
I understand the, the want to reduce, we're now competition to our neighboring cities to keep that revenue with our nonprofits in orange, rather than,

769
01:02:33,860 --> 01:02:37,520
I'm going to Garden Grove, Sanana, or Anaheim to purchase,

770
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:39,220
safe and sane fireworks.

771
01:02:40,940 --> 01:02:45,300
So I'm still kind of up in the air on the number of permatees.

772
01:02:46,340 --> 01:02:48,680
I love the idea of rolling it back to January

773
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,840
for the lottery process itself.

774
01:02:53,300 --> 01:02:55,800
I think that does give enough ramp up time.

775
01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:02,120
Something I think I would be in favor of is every two years.

776
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:08,640
is just you permit them you do the lottery once every two years you permit them for two years

777
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:14,440
but then after that two years they do have a cool down they have a one-year

778
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:21,280
prohibition that they can't reapply everything else I'm good with but that's kind of just

779
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:31,060
my thoughts on that and again I would like to see us stay at 12 if it changes I mean it's okay but

780
01:03:31,060 --> 01:03:37,080
I want to see the opportunities go for as many nonprofits as we can, and I think if we're

781
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:42,360
if the whole sailor is able to secure locations with the nonprofits throughout the city,

782
01:03:42,500 --> 01:03:47,200
rather than on Tuston Avenue, I think we'll see a different outcome, so we'll leave it at

783
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:47,360
that.

784
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,460
Thank you.

785
01:03:49,620 --> 01:03:50,160
Thank you.

786
01:03:51,060 --> 01:03:52,800
Let's see who is

787
01:03:58,400 --> 01:03:58,920
next.

788
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:01,160
Thank you.

789
01:04:01,660 --> 01:04:02,120
Councillor Mervio.

790
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:04,840
Yes, Councillor Mervio.

791
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:09,180
of Dimitra, kind of looked at this similarly, and also have

792
01:04:09,180 --> 01:04:11,700
spent many, many, many years being in the

793
01:04:11,700 --> 01:04:15,240
lotteries for beer booths, for the street fair, and then many, many years listening

794
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:20,320
to people bitch about the beer booths at the street fair, I had several questions

795
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:27,580
about that reducing after the first year just seems like way too soon to do that,

796
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:33,360
that so much more has to do with location and creating a rotation.

797
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:41,320
If you know that a certain booth is a high traffic booth, you know, that that's constantly in rotation for people to get to that one.

798
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:47,280
And to your point, to some organizations, certain Iran is a good, that's a good number.

799
01:04:47,540 --> 01:04:53,140
You know, that's, and there are years when that's, you make less than that at the street fair, after working for three days,

800
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:59,480
in the burning heat over a fire, I can't even tell you how awful that is.

801
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:03,520
So yeah, and sometimes that's just the way it rolls.

802
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:09,080
I also, you know, it might be something too that we looked at that maybe you get it for two years

803
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:13,320
and then you're out of the rotation for two years because there are just so many variables.

804
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:20,360
So I think some of these changes are a little too soon to know and breaking up as Council Member

805
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:26,380
Dmitry said maybe locations and more and more about those locations is going to make a huge difference.

806
01:05:26,380 --> 01:05:31,260
or maybe then we're spreading it around enough that instead of one person getting 80 and one

807
01:05:31,260 --> 01:05:34,500
person getting 13, maybe everyone makes 25, and that would be fantastic.

808
01:05:35,900 --> 01:05:42,720
So I just would be really hesitant to cut the number right after the first year.

809
01:05:43,460 --> 01:05:47,500
Other than that, there was one other thing that was kind of bothering me about this.

810
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:51,600
I think you answered it previously with the affiliated groups.

811
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:59,060
And for the ones that did less, was that mostly just all the people who were, as Councilman

812
01:05:59,060 --> 01:06:01,000
Brigadier said, kind of a long-testin?

813
01:06:01,980 --> 01:06:03,400
It was the highest performing booth.

814
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:05,600
Let me check them.

815
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:06,560
Location wise.

816
01:06:08,180 --> 01:06:08,380
Right.

817
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:08,800
The door.

818
01:06:12,540 --> 01:06:13,980
It was a long East Chapman.

819
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:17,660
I think it was the shopping center to cross from Selman by the 55th for you.

820
01:06:18,460 --> 01:06:19,000
Yes, sure.

821
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:19,260
I think.

822
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:20,340
She's very excited.

823
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:21,040
She knew the location.

824
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:21,520
Okay.

825
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:22,420
Alright.

826
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:27,940
Um, are you about that's very interesting to know so are I thank you?

827
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:28,680
That's my ability.

828
01:06:31,330 --> 01:06:31,830
Uh, thank you.

829
01:06:31,910 --> 01:06:33,570
Can you put this slide back up please?

830
01:06:35,270 --> 01:06:36,630
I'll just roll through it quickly.

831
01:06:37,290 --> 01:06:43,430
Uh, so in terms of reducing the maximum, I know one booth actually shut down sort of midway

832
01:06:43,430 --> 01:06:48,010
because it was performing so poorly, but it was obviously a location thing.

833
01:06:48,770 --> 01:06:53,610
Um, in terms of the feedback, is this direct feedback you got from, you know, TNT and

834
01:06:54,410 --> 01:07:02,090
Yeah, so some of it is a, some of it came from both TNT, TNT, really, Phantom, we asked for any feedback, we didn't receive anything.

835
01:07:03,390 --> 01:07:12,690
One was from non-profit and one was during council discussion and then number five that came just from the experience staff had in trying to process the application.

836
01:07:14,550 --> 01:07:19,310
Yeah, I think the first year it's going to be tough because everybody was scrambling.

837
01:07:22,220 --> 01:07:26,540
It wouldn't offend me to move again to 10 from 12 but we'll see how that goes.

838
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:40,540
I think number two, I agree with, number three, I actually agree with, I think a two-year permit is good because you have to ramp up and you get to get the volunteers to come and work the shifts.

839
01:07:40,540 --> 01:07:48,040
I've worked shifts at Villa Park High School in over the years and it's tough to get all of the volunteers together.

840
01:07:49,020 --> 01:07:50,740
In terms of

841
01:07:53,590 --> 01:07:58,530
the qualified organizations, yeah, I think that once you get a permit,

842
01:07:58,670 --> 01:08:00,950
I think you should cycle out and have to sit on the sidelines.

843
01:08:01,630 --> 01:08:02,810
So I agree with that.

844
01:08:03,190 --> 01:08:09,390
And then in the last one, I know there was a lot of, we'd receive a lot of feedback from people that are upset that,

845
01:08:09,390 --> 01:08:15,010
You know, like the high school got the permit because that's in our ordinance.

846
01:08:16,070 --> 01:08:19,470
So the booster club and the high school can also get a permit.

847
01:08:19,650 --> 01:08:21,170
I know that would cause a lot of heartache.

848
01:08:22,690 --> 01:08:23,130
So

849
01:08:26,580 --> 01:08:29,240
I think it cause a lot of confusion with stack as it's hard.

850
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:34,140
It's hard to determine if they're actually affiliated or not or if they're sort of separate.

851
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:40,500
And maybe that should be removed because I don't think we're really qualified to make those decisions.

852
01:08:40,500 --> 01:08:45,660
how just how integrated these 501C3s are.

853
01:08:46,260 --> 01:08:50,800
So the way this was intended, at least what is presented tonight, is that the high schools

854
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:56,120
would continue to receive the permit automatically in any booster club associated with the high school

855
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:57,500
would fall under that permit.

856
01:08:58,480 --> 01:09:04,820
So it's affiliated requirement, really would pertain to anyone outside of the high schools

857
01:09:04,820 --> 01:09:07,140
that are applying to be a part of the lottery.

858
01:09:07,140 --> 01:09:10,560
but not necessarily the booster clubs that are associated with eye school.

859
01:09:11,380 --> 01:09:14,440
Okay, and I know that Richland had declined participating.

860
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:19,060
Maybe we could take them out permanently if that's their desire

861
01:09:19,820 --> 01:09:22,740
because it doesn't sound like they had much interest.

862
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,360
Maybe they would free up one additional permit.

863
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:25,920
All right.

864
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,280
So, okay, just about to throw it out there.

865
01:09:30,660 --> 01:09:32,820
All right, that's my comment, thank you.

866
01:09:33,700 --> 01:09:41,080
So, I have some questions out. We'll start with that one. So, to clarify, there's some more

867
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:48,880
days that high schools, let's say Orange High, for all of their groups under them,

868
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:51,640
for all of that high school, they would only get one permit.

869
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:56,220
Correct. Yeah. The little bit of resolution is written that, let's say, Orange High School

870
01:09:56,220 --> 01:10:02,480
receive one in and grew up whether it's athletic or booster clouds or any sort of other

871
01:10:02,480 --> 01:10:06,780
school organization that fall underneath that particular permit. So when it comes to

872
01:10:06,780 --> 01:10:11,500
number five about removing this prohibition on affiliated non-profit or educational organizations

873
01:10:11,500 --> 01:10:14,740
that would be for those who are applying to be a part of the lottery.

874
01:10:15,500 --> 01:10:26,200
Okay, thank you. I personally didn't support having the high schools have a standing permit every

875
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:32,560
but the council wants to still go along with that I think that they're going to have to have one

876
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:39,460
per high school so that to be fair to the others. I would like to ask the representative

877
01:10:39,460 --> 01:10:42,880
of TNT to come forward, George.

878
01:10:56,640 --> 01:11:03,000
The question is, Theresa Wake representing TNT. Thank you for coming.

879
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:12,640
So I know initially you said, I think it suggested eight permits to start with that we did 12 as a compromise.

880
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:26,360
Can you speak to perhaps maybe what went wrong in terms of several locations or how that might be addressed next year?

881
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:38,320
So we can kind of a better feel of what we should do here, and personally I'm thinking maybe pull it back to ten, but I'd love to have your

882
01:11:39,860 --> 01:11:42,600
Be surprised the size of the city of Orange

883
01:11:44,220 --> 01:11:46,740
Based upon the size of the city of Orange

884
01:11:47,440 --> 01:11:56,300
Our folks who do this in many cities had the suggestion they thought that it would be a good number to start with and then decide after the first couple

885
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:58,860
if you wanted to adjust up or down.

886
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:01,620
You want to not to water down too much,

887
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:03,840
the amount of money that the nonprofits could make.

888
01:12:04,260 --> 01:12:05,420
If you have too many permits,

889
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:08,340
great politically, but not so good for the nonprofits

890
01:12:08,340 --> 01:12:09,880
is everything spread thin.

891
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:12,900
But on the other hand, we're starting out with new locations.

892
01:12:13,140 --> 01:12:15,100
I'd sure which locations work real well

893
01:12:15,100 --> 01:12:17,320
and others that some do, some don't.

894
01:12:17,740 --> 01:12:19,560
And so you're going through that experiment process.

895
01:12:20,220 --> 01:12:21,520
So it might take you a couple years

896
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:23,480
to actually figure out that magic number,

897
01:12:23,480 --> 01:12:27,200
whether it's 12, 10, 8 more or less.

898
01:12:28,020 --> 01:12:30,360
But that's based on cities your size

899
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:32,560
and based on knowledge that our folks

900
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:34,180
were pretty good at this.

901
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:36,600
We thought the sweet spot would be most like we'd be.

902
01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:40,220
OK, and is it difficult to find locations?

903
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:42,780
OK, let me, let me, if I can just follow up to that.

904
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:43,560
As well, good evening.

905
01:12:44,660 --> 01:12:45,540
Teresa with TNT.

906
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:48,720
I know that one of the questions that was posed

907
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:52,480
was which one was the lowest performing site.

908
01:12:52,480 --> 01:12:55,880
you know, everyone's thinking everything's compacted

909
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:58,680
in a long-tested avenue, and that's why maybe there was

910
01:12:58,680 --> 01:12:59,240
some performers.

911
01:12:59,820 --> 01:13:02,920
Actually, those were the better performers, the ones that were

912
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:05,960
out alone that you would think would have been the ones

913
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:09,400
that would have taken, you know, a lot of the sales,

914
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,440
because they were kind of a lone man.

915
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:13,740
We're actually the lower performers.

916
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:17,640
And so I know that you guys are asking as far as,

917
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:18,840
like, well, maybe it's the location.

918
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:21,800
Yeah, location has a lot to do with it.

919
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:30,140
We talked about the limits that we have placed as far as the sales area and the use area within the city

920
01:13:30,140 --> 01:13:36,700
But one of the things that Council should take into account is that when we're going out and actually

921
01:13:36,700 --> 01:13:42,660
vetting the different sites for sales with the non-profits the different selling sites

922
01:13:42,660 --> 01:13:50,340
One of the things that we as a vendor have to keep in mind and comply with are the restrictions that are placed on that site

923
01:13:50,340 --> 01:13:56,300
by fire in order for us to be able to make the requirements, the setbacks, the

924
01:13:56,300 --> 01:13:56,840
clearances.

925
01:13:57,480 --> 01:14:03,420
And so that does take a lot of the selling sites that, you know, to the general public,

926
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:07,220
you see the site you're thinking, oh, that's a really busy shopping center would be a great

927
01:14:07,220 --> 01:14:12,100
selling site, but maybe that particular site does not meet the necessary requirements

928
01:14:12,100 --> 01:14:17,720
in order for us to operate under the guidelines that have been set forth.

929
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:20,940
So, that's one of the things that's at play as well.

930
01:14:21,460 --> 01:14:25,600
So, what I'm hearing you say is it's difficult to find good sites?

931
01:14:26,420 --> 01:14:31,600
Yes, because it's not just like, oh, let's look at that particular shopping center.

932
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:36,380
I mean, we have to take into account, you know, the traffic flow.

933
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:44,480
We have to be able to meet the requirements that are part of the fire code in order to safely operate on that site.

934
01:14:44,480 --> 01:14:54,640
So just because there's a lot of shopping centers in other areas, if you don't necessarily meet all the requirements all the time.

935
01:14:54,820 --> 01:14:56,880
Okay, thank you very very much.

936
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:59,220
Maybe sit close by.

937
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:17,660
That would be my other questions for you. Thank you. So, yeah, maybe we should not get back to to ten. I would support that. Number two, definitely move up the application process.

938
01:15:18,620 --> 01:15:26,680
Number three, I'm having some difficulty with if there is the mood of the council to issue

939
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:32,240
the permits for two years in a row, then I would want them to sit out for two years and

940
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:37,540
I'll fairness to give the others more of an opportunity.

941
01:15:40,300 --> 01:15:47,300
Let's see, my preference though would be just to open it up every year and if you did get

942
01:15:47,300 --> 01:15:49,420
for this page set out for one year.

943
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:53,500
And then for removing Section E,

944
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:57,480
I got several calls on this subject as well.

945
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:03,500
And it's hard on staff to determine which organizations

946
01:16:03,500 --> 01:16:08,100
and applications are, you know, as I said,

947
01:16:09,860 --> 01:16:12,140
it's a work I'm looking for, anyway,

948
01:16:12,380 --> 01:16:14,380
that they're affiliated, I guess.

949
01:16:14,380 --> 01:16:22,040
Like Francis, I got a call from McPherson saying I think maybe they got one, but there was

950
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:28,640
a PTA or a booster club at the school that said we're told no, you can't participate

951
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:32,580
and they were really put off about that night and I'd get it.

952
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:36,200
So I think that that would be a very good move.

953
01:16:36,860 --> 01:16:42,440
So, anyway, that's all I have input for Cosmoura Biles.

954
01:16:44,380 --> 01:16:47,740
Well, I'm sorry to say I mostly disagree with all of that.

955
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:57,180
So, I just think after the first year dropping down from the 12 to the 8, I understand that that seems like it's a good fix,

956
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:01,640
but I just don't think we have enough data based on the short, we've only done it one year.

957
01:17:02,220 --> 01:17:09,280
I really, and just to reiterate, Jack, the three high schools, or the three permanent permits that we have,

958
01:17:09,340 --> 01:17:15,540
are Almadina, Olu, and Orange High School, and Richland, but they have declined.

959
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,940
They declined. So, technically, that could go back into the pool.

960
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:22,960
If you, yeah, and that's what we did this past year, Richland has written into the resolution.

961
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:26,520
So, if the council would like to have them removed, we could do that.

962
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:30,500
Yeah, I would say no. Just in case that ever changes, you never know with that.

963
01:17:30,500 --> 01:17:34,620
And while I understand the concern about the affiliation,

964
01:17:34,820 --> 01:17:37,500
this is again something having so many years history

965
01:17:37,500 --> 01:17:39,920
with the street fair, this comes up all the time

966
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:43,840
with the street fair as well, because we have the high schools,

967
01:17:44,100 --> 01:17:47,980
it's then up, it's beholden upon the high schools themselves

968
01:17:47,980 --> 01:17:51,480
to one their own wateries, who gets it amongst all their,

969
01:17:51,500 --> 01:17:56,460
but conceivably, when you look at really heavily populated schools

970
01:17:56,460 --> 01:18:00,040
like in Albany, not orange, maybe orange high to some extent,

971
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:02,740
but certainly a Lou that has seven or eight booster clubs,

972
01:18:03,220 --> 01:18:06,940
there is a conceivable chance that every single booth

973
01:18:06,940 --> 01:18:10,180
is somehow affiliated to a booster club with that school.

974
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:12,340
And we just can't allow that to happen.

975
01:18:12,480 --> 01:18:14,960
And it's up to the school to figure out

976
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:18,720
how those boosters are fairly treated within them.

977
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:21,480
In terms of school to school, for the lesser schools

978
01:18:21,480 --> 01:18:23,080
that don't have the permanent permits.

979
01:18:23,820 --> 01:18:27,320
You know, I think the staff doesn't understand that.

980
01:18:27,540 --> 01:18:29,640
If McPherson comes and they have three different

981
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:35,660
organizations within the school that wants to get together, you know, the, sorry, we can't

982
01:18:35,660 --> 01:18:40,700
do that. You're all affiliated under one, under one school heading. And the other part

983
01:18:40,700 --> 01:18:46,840
of it is that orange, as we all know who set up here is probably one of the biggest volunteer

984
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:52,260
cities at heart with so many organizations. By cutting it back, even if someone doesn't do as

985
01:18:52,260 --> 01:18:57,020
well as somebody else. And not offering those opportunities, we are really shooting ourselves in

986
01:18:57,020 --> 01:18:59,860
But, you know, yes, we'd like everybody to do

987
01:18:59,860 --> 01:19:02,940
excessively well, but, you know, a little good

988
01:19:02,940 --> 01:19:03,800
goes a long way.

989
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:06,360
And I think that some of these things that we're talking about

990
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:10,000
can be balanced by location and really looking at some data.

991
01:19:10,340 --> 01:19:12,480
I understand what you're saying in terms of your constraints.

992
01:19:13,620 --> 01:19:16,040
But I've just seen it happen so many times

993
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:18,020
where when we cut things back,

994
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:20,360
so that people are fighting out for these things,

995
01:19:20,620 --> 01:19:22,060
these permits like the Hunger Games,

996
01:19:22,820 --> 01:19:24,340
that is 10,000 times worse.

997
01:19:24,340 --> 01:19:30,040
So I just I think give it another year and see how we go and then we'll have a little bit more data

998
01:19:30,900 --> 01:19:34,820
So that would be my recommendation on the only other one is the

999
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:41,380
Well, it was the room it was the room of section E which I'm saying I don't think it's time for that

1000
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:44,020
I'm sorry. What was that

1001
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:46,980
Do not room is actually at this point

1002
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:50,060
Okay, I've caused very good years

1003
01:19:51,340 --> 01:19:52,220
Thank you

1004
01:19:53,380 --> 01:20:06,580
And reducing the number of permits from 12 to 8 again is going to only really allow for four or possibly five, right, for the other non-profits.

1005
01:20:07,340 --> 01:20:17,240
And again, it's only a first year out. So the reducing I'm not too sold on. I could maybe be persuaded to 10, but I was good at the 12.

1006
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:21,180
But I will tell you an East Orange, there was none.

1007
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:24,020
So that's why the chatman wanted so well.

1008
01:20:24,500 --> 01:20:26,240
And I thought you could see it, right?

1009
01:20:26,420 --> 01:20:27,720
I were right, I used to be.

1010
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:29,780
But there was none on the opposite side.

1011
01:20:29,820 --> 01:20:31,820
I don't know if you can find one at state or brothers

1012
01:20:31,820 --> 01:20:35,320
or over where the international house of pancakes

1013
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:36,680
at or whatever.

1014
01:20:37,060 --> 01:20:38,260
But there was none there.

1015
01:20:38,300 --> 01:20:42,600
So they had to really go out to seek to find them.

1016
01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:46,500
And so I know you're saying locations in those halls,

1017
01:20:46,500 --> 01:20:52,740
other things to go with locations which thank you for letting us know that but just keep that in

1018
01:20:52,740 --> 01:20:58,480
mind for locations for this next year. Completely happy with moving it back to January because

1019
01:20:58,480 --> 01:21:06,260
that gives them more time. But I'm not sold on giving them two years for that permit. I think every

1020
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:11,880
year and you put your name for the lottery but if you did get it one year you're out for the one

1021
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:19,840
so I agree with you in that mayor. But, Jack, again, in that section E, for that removal, I remember

1022
01:21:20,580 --> 01:21:26,980
McPherson, the emails from Ferson, how they were told they needed to be running out of the same booth,

1023
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:34,260
yet I believe it was the else club and an affiliate of the else club, they were able to put into the lottery

1024
01:21:34,820 --> 01:21:39,480
and they didn't have to be in the same booth, something to that nature or some kind of organization

1025
01:21:39,480 --> 01:21:42,180
was at the blossoms, so that weren't something like that.

1026
01:21:42,340 --> 01:21:44,460
Could you speak to that a little bit?

1027
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:46,900
And how was that so difficult for you to discern?

1028
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:48,880
So I think the staff was looking at it.

1029
01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:51,840
They saw that clearly those two nonprofits were falling

1030
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:54,260
under the umbrella as being a part of McPherson.

1031
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:58,000
And so it's not only nonprofits, but it's educational institution.

1032
01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:00,660
So it was pretty evident to staff and they initially got

1033
01:22:00,660 --> 01:22:01,260
those applications.

1034
01:22:01,500 --> 01:22:03,100
Oh, these are under the same umbrella.

1035
01:22:04,380 --> 01:22:07,140
If there's one, I believe that one they had to do with the else.

1036
01:22:07,140 --> 01:22:12,460
I don't think that became apparent to staff until after the fact, and I don't believe any of

1037
01:22:12,460 --> 01:22:17,480
those ended up receiving a permit anyway, but I think that's where then staff was

1038
01:22:17,480 --> 01:22:21,500
to have a conversation, do we want to get into this when we're finding out later that they're

1039
01:22:21,500 --> 01:22:24,960
actually affiliated or maybe affiliated with another group?

1040
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:33,060
Yeah, but that when you found out later, they were able to put themselves in the lottery, right?

1041
01:22:33,060 --> 01:22:38,660
separately, and I believe that was the point of contention that the McPherson people were having

1042
01:22:38,660 --> 01:22:41,500
is that they weren't even being allowed to put themselves in separately.

1043
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:46,900
They had to go under one where these other ones, it was hard for you to discerning it to find

1044
01:22:46,900 --> 01:22:47,420
out to later.

1045
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:47,840
Correct.

1046
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:48,100
Yeah.

1047
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:52,060
I think we're also making, I remember we were having a conversation that we'll can this non-profit

1048
01:22:52,060 --> 01:22:56,740
stand alone on its own, and that almost became the tipping point of whether or not they

1049
01:22:56,740 --> 01:22:57,860
could be included in the lottery.

1050
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:02,600
You can't really be a non-profit for a school of the school doesn't exist, so that's

1051
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:05,020
to kind of use as being the part of the affiliated organization.

1052
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:07,120
But for the general nonprofits, it was harder for you to use.

1053
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:08,980
Yeah, because they could potentially

1054
01:23:08,980 --> 01:23:12,800
stand be a stand alone, but not necessarily need to have the orange

1055
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:14,260
elx in order to exist.

1056
01:23:14,500 --> 01:23:16,580
Is there any way we could change the application

1057
01:23:16,580 --> 01:23:20,320
where that could be reflected that could be easily discerned

1058
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:23,060
by staff, and that way we could keep section E by any child.

1059
01:23:23,480 --> 01:23:24,600
We have a number of relevant organizations.

1060
01:23:25,020 --> 01:23:26,460
We can ask, yeah, that's one thing that's

1061
01:23:26,460 --> 01:23:27,760
included in the application now.

1062
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:32,540
We can put in there are what are your affiliated organizations.

1063
01:23:33,180 --> 01:23:35,900
And then if there's any duplicates that come in,

1064
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:38,300
we can, that would flag us.

1065
01:23:38,660 --> 01:23:41,940
That, okay, either we can offer the opportunity for them to combine

1066
01:23:41,940 --> 01:23:45,140
or they are removed from the process altogether.

1067
01:23:45,580 --> 01:23:48,600
Because I definitely see the unfairness that these affiliates

1068
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:50,620
or whatever, there's going to be multiple entries.

1069
01:23:51,480 --> 01:23:54,900
And, or McPherson is going to be one, make sense,

1070
01:23:54,900 --> 01:23:58,500
or vice versa now, everybody's going to be in there, right?

1071
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:01,100
So I'm still having a hard time with it.

1072
01:24:01,100 --> 01:24:04,980
We're moving to Section E, but I understood the difficulty you

1073
01:24:04,980 --> 01:24:09,120
guys were all under it last year and the frustration is also

1074
01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:12,540
of these nonprofits too, of it not being very clear.

1075
01:24:12,900 --> 01:24:15,760
But maybe if we can add that into the application or something,

1076
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:18,140
I don't know what you all think colleagues, I don't know.

1077
01:24:19,220 --> 01:24:20,780
But those are my thoughts for right now.

1078
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:22,360
Thank you.

1079
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:26,440
So I predicted a lot of different opinions, Council Member Tavalaris.

1080
01:24:27,260 --> 01:24:27,780
Thank you, Jack.

1081
01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:32,100
What was the delta from the group that made the most to the group that made the last?

1082
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:33,280
What are we looking at here?

1083
01:24:43,410 --> 01:24:47,430
Oh, it was about $67,000 difference?

1084
01:24:47,950 --> 01:24:48,070
Oh.

1085
01:24:48,870 --> 01:24:50,190
Okay, that was more than I anticipated.

1086
01:24:51,790 --> 01:24:57,790
So the folks that made the last, did they let you know how they felt about that?

1087
01:24:58,270 --> 01:25:00,270
No, we didn't hear from them.

1088
01:25:00,270 --> 01:25:02,710
I think most of the communication with the non-profits

1089
01:25:02,710 --> 01:25:05,170
was either with the fire department or the whole cell

1090
01:25:05,170 --> 01:25:05,890
or the whole thing.

1091
01:25:05,970 --> 01:25:07,330
OK, that's the end of my question.

1092
01:25:07,570 --> 01:25:08,310
Thank you.

1093
01:25:10,690 --> 01:25:11,090
All right.

1094
01:25:12,630 --> 01:25:14,990
So again, this will just be advisory.

1095
01:25:15,530 --> 01:25:17,430
This is not and stone.

1096
01:25:17,770 --> 01:25:20,470
But I think we should go through each item one by one

1097
01:25:21,330 --> 01:25:24,130
and give staff some clear direction

1098
01:25:24,130 --> 01:25:25,490
on where we're heading.

1099
01:25:26,430 --> 01:25:29,770
So starting with the recommendation to reduce the number

1100
01:25:43,590 --> 01:25:49,950
I think they're going to leave it blank and we're going to actually vote on the issue when they bring the ordinance forward.

1101
01:25:50,290 --> 01:25:57,810
Yes, so if I may, right, we received election tonight. It sounds like there's consensus at least to keep it to 12.

1102
01:25:57,810 --> 01:26:06,230
So when we bring a resolution forward, I believe at the next city council meeting, December 9th, it will reflect 12, no change air.

1103
01:26:06,910 --> 01:26:11,990
It sounds like there's consensus to move the timeline earlier as well, point number two.

1104
01:26:12,670 --> 01:26:21,830
It sounds like we don't have clear direction or consensus for point number three, right, a two year rule or a skip year rule.

1105
01:26:21,830 --> 01:26:30,910
So what I propose doing there would be drafting resolution and let me see what each language might look like, right?

1106
01:26:30,910 --> 01:26:36,890
So as we're proposing this, you can read what it exists today and maybe an option to.

1107
01:26:37,830 --> 01:26:41,830
With that, I've heard skip one year skip two years.

1108
01:26:41,970 --> 01:26:44,110
That's an easy change at the next meeting.

1109
01:26:45,030 --> 01:26:51,170
And then to me, based on discussion tonight, it doesn't really seem like there's consensus to remove section E.

1110
01:26:51,170 --> 01:26:54,910
the affiliated organization, but it's a very valid point.

1111
01:26:55,290 --> 01:26:56,870
We can do is amend the application.

1112
01:26:57,470 --> 01:27:00,990
Are you part of a high school, or are you part of a parent organization?

1113
01:27:01,290 --> 01:27:05,270
So I think that one is easy administrative fix on our end.

1114
01:27:06,050 --> 01:27:09,570
Summarize, I'll bring the resolution back at the December 9th meeting,

1115
01:27:10,250 --> 01:27:13,330
keeping it at 12, moving the timeline earlier.

1116
01:27:14,510 --> 01:27:17,410
So the decision, I guess, for council next meeting,

1117
01:27:17,670 --> 01:27:20,770
would be more focused around bullet point number three.

1118
01:27:20,770 --> 01:27:26,970
You want to sit a year, sit two years, or have a two year permit, but we'll propose language for counted to consider at that time

1119
01:27:26,970 --> 01:27:31,970
I think we've received enough direction tonight to to move the item along

1120
01:27:31,970 --> 01:27:40,850
All right. Well, thank you. That sounds like a good summary. I appreciate that and the other council discussion and questions

1121
01:27:43,010 --> 01:27:44,130
all right

1122
01:27:44,130 --> 01:27:44,610
then

1123
01:27:49,910 --> 01:27:50,470
see

1124
01:27:51,390 --> 01:27:52,510
legal affairs

1125
01:27:52,510 --> 01:27:59,830
Item 10, 10.1 introduction, 1st reading of ordinance number 19-25,

1126
01:28:00,090 --> 01:28:04,410
amending chapter 2.10, title 2 of the Arts of Municipal Code,

1127
01:28:04,570 --> 01:28:09,030
related to controlled committee contributions, as well as the process

1128
01:28:09,030 --> 01:28:15,030
to incorporate amendments and additional requirements to chapter 2.10.

1129
01:28:15,990 --> 01:28:19,830
There was a hot file distributed on this item,

1130
01:28:19,830 --> 01:28:28,740
Would anyone like a staff report I think the questions of staff and the update from the city attorney on the hot file for public

1131
01:28:28,740 --> 01:28:31,700
Knowledge again since this is dealing with transparency

1132
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:33,360
Okay

1133
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:36,580
Again any questions of staff

1134
01:28:38,180 --> 01:28:42,540
Councilman to meet you. Thank you for your question and the hot file

1135
01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:47,580
Upon further review aligns with the city status as a general law city

1136
01:28:47,580 --> 01:28:53,580
We operate under state law and we don't have the same flexibility as a charter city to submit future amendments to voters.

1137
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:56,620
So that is the distinction as a technical legal clarification.

1138
01:28:57,380 --> 01:29:02,540
The new language maintains the ordinances intent by allowing the council to make future amendments by ordinance.

1139
01:29:06,210 --> 01:29:07,030
Right. Well, council.

1140
01:29:07,250 --> 01:29:07,330
Mayor.

1141
01:29:07,330 --> 01:29:07,710
Do you agree?

1142
01:29:08,950 --> 01:29:09,230
Yeah.

1143
01:29:09,330 --> 01:29:10,790
Thank you.

1144
01:29:11,010 --> 01:29:11,870
Yes. Thank you.

1145
01:29:12,030 --> 01:29:12,430
Can I go in?

1146
01:29:12,590 --> 01:29:12,930
Please.

1147
01:29:13,390 --> 01:29:13,610
Fantastic.

1148
01:29:14,430 --> 01:29:20,190
So this is something I asked our last council meeting to work with the city attorney about.

1149
01:29:20,190 --> 01:29:29,050
with re-institution of prohibition and thank you to Councilwoman Barrios for also stepping

1150
01:29:29,050 --> 01:29:35,730
forward to review language and to also give input to the city attorney, it comes back

1151
01:29:35,730 --> 01:29:44,990
down to this item really goes into making sure that when you have campaigns here in the

1152
01:29:44,990 --> 01:29:54,610
city for transparency, preventing corruption and really keep the public informed potentially

1153
01:29:54,610 --> 01:29:59,870
of who's trying to influence Council via the contributions.

1154
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:29,980
And by re-instituting. And again, I think all our policies, all our ordinances, should always be revisited at some point. And changes are okay. They don't have to be, they don't have to be drug through mud or upset or tantrums or what have you changes happen. So, I've been on the phone number of times this week, over the last two weeks, actually, with the FPPC, getting some guidance, making sure that everything

1155
01:30:29,980 --> 01:30:38,100
is correct. I've talked with the State Attorney General's office as well. And he, they walked

1156
01:30:38,100 --> 01:30:46,100
me through some of the schemes that are run that prohibit transfers to take place, specifically

1157
01:30:46,100 --> 01:30:54,720
things that call out in California, Dakota Regulations Title II, 18536. But a prohibition

1158
01:30:54,720 --> 01:31:00,980
towards transfers from one committee campaign to another is

1159
01:31:00,980 --> 01:31:03,360
constitutionally sound and defensible.

1160
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:09,880
Since specifically, it is narrow, and I'm going to read it

1161
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:11,600
just as they gave it to me.

1162
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:16,680
It is narrowly tailored to serve a compelling and substantial

1163
01:31:16,680 --> 01:31:17,940
governmental interest.

1164
01:31:18,460 --> 01:31:21,780
And in this case, it is preventing the circumvention of

1165
01:31:21,780 --> 01:31:27,840
of contribution limits and transparency to the public as a whole.

1166
01:31:28,380 --> 01:31:33,220
It is not overly broad and does not chill protected free speech.

1167
01:31:35,020 --> 01:31:41,240
So as with that, this ordinance does just that.

1168
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:45,200
And I have a long drawn out thing, but basically,

1169
01:31:45,200 --> 01:31:52,460
be everybody is on board, basically it's states that it's just fine to do.

1170
01:31:53,320 --> 01:32:00,100
The question may come up of other cities, just a handful quickly, that also have now taken

1171
01:32:00,100 --> 01:32:01,800
action and have this.

1172
01:32:01,860 --> 01:32:10,460
The city of Santa Clara in chapter 2.1030 has this same language, the city of Sacramento

1173
01:32:10,460 --> 01:32:19,160
under chapter 2, 13, 070 as the same language, the city of Anaheim has similar language,

1174
01:32:19,540 --> 01:32:27,900
but basically the same thing. The city of Highton Beach, in their section 2, 070, 090,

1175
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:37,000
actually is stronger than our proposed language, and Laguna Beach also has stronger language in

1176
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:47,040
their ordinance 1.14032A. And of course, the county of orange also has, we have the

1177
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:52,580
exactly, basically the exact same language. So with that, I know we have some public speakers

1178
01:32:52,580 --> 01:33:03,360
and I have a very long drawn out arguments, but I'll leave it at that. And just ask for a

1179
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:10,540
folks know who's participating and we're not circumventing contribution limits and our campaigns

1180
01:33:10,540 --> 01:33:12,560
are completely transparent to the public.

1181
01:33:13,480 --> 01:33:17,020
Thank you, Councillor Mayer, to make sure we do have three speakers but are there any other

1182
01:33:17,020 --> 01:33:20,140
council questions or comments before we do that?

1183
01:33:21,930 --> 01:33:26,350
All right, first speaker is Shirley Grendel followed by Sharon Gelloso.

1184
01:33:33,770 --> 01:33:34,910
We're back again.

1185
01:33:37,670 --> 01:33:45,270
You guys probably don't remember that back in June of 2022, the Orange County Register

1186
01:33:45,270 --> 01:33:53,470
published a survey of the 34 cities in Orange County campaign finance laws.

1187
01:33:54,110 --> 01:34:00,410
You might be surprised to know that the city of Orange was one of seven cities that got

1188
01:34:00,410 --> 01:34:06,430
a great, just want to remind you in case you didn't remember that.

1189
01:34:07,550 --> 01:34:14,970
What you did last year was to consider what you needed the orange ordinance because you

1190
01:34:14,970 --> 01:34:22,610
provided a new poll to evade the contribution amendment and it also allowed other elected

1191
01:34:22,610 --> 01:34:32,350
officials from other jurisdictions to unfairly influence orange elections. Furthermore, you guys

1192
01:34:32,350 --> 01:34:39,590
really have a financial conflict of interest when it comes to the campaign, because you're

1193
01:34:39,590 --> 01:34:46,010
the ones that really benefit, because you get the contributions, the general public doesn't.

1194
01:34:46,010 --> 01:34:47,710
So,

1195
01:34:50,030 --> 01:35:01,160
it's made it difficult for you to make clear decisions because you do have such a financial

1196
01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:01,940
conflict.

1197
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:09,400
So, the way around this is to take that out of your hands, just like in the Orange County

1198
01:35:09,400 --> 01:35:18,960
ordinance, only the voters can repeal or weaken the campaign wall. So the change you

1199
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:27,580
made last year regarding enter candidate transfers is being reconsidered tonight thanks to

1200
01:35:27,580 --> 01:35:35,220
the council and the nature who found out first time the devastating results of permitting

1201
01:35:35,220 --> 01:35:44,000
inter-Canada transfers. I commend you, John, for having the integrity to write this wrong.

1202
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:51,220
I thank you very much for bringing this back to the council for reconsideration.

1203
01:35:52,300 --> 01:36:02,360
I hope all of you will support the recommended changes. I'm embarrassed and the shame of those of you

1204
01:36:02,360 --> 01:36:10,400
made this last year. It was the wrong thing to do tonight. You have the right to

1205
01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:12,460
correct that. Thank you.

1206
01:36:13,320 --> 01:36:13,700
Thank you.

1207
01:36:13,700 --> 01:36:15,040
You're surely a paper article.

1208
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:17,360
I'm sorry. What was that?

1209
01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:18,260
What?

1210
01:36:18,580 --> 01:36:19,500
I'm sorry. What did you say?

1211
01:36:19,980 --> 01:36:21,840
She was showing you the register article.

1212
01:36:21,940 --> 01:36:24,360
Oh, good. Okay. Thank you.

1213
01:36:25,820 --> 01:36:26,820
Sharing the last so.

1214
01:36:27,340 --> 01:36:28,900
And then next is Regimenicus.

1215
01:36:30,380 --> 01:36:33,220
Good evening, Mayor and Council members.

1216
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:36,520
Last year, this council week did our campaign finance

1217
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:39,800
ordinance by creating a loophole that allowed campaign

1218
01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:43,340
contributions to be passed between candidate committees.

1219
01:36:43,940 --> 01:36:46,300
That change opened the door to what's essentially

1220
01:36:46,300 --> 01:36:48,560
money laundering and it needs to be fixed.

1221
01:36:50,380 --> 01:36:54,760
By banning inter candidate transfers, we restore fairness,

1222
01:36:55,500 --> 01:36:58,300
transparency, and integrity to our election.

1223
01:36:58,300 --> 01:37:00,840
Here's why the current step is harmful.

1224
01:37:01,420 --> 01:37:05,100
First, it gives elected officials and candidates unfair advantage.

1225
01:37:06,460 --> 01:37:11,100
They can now donate not only personally, but also through their campaign committees,

1226
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:17,260
effectively, effectively doubling their influence in ways ordinary residents can't.

1227
01:37:17,440 --> 01:37:23,040
Second, it undermines donor intent, voters who contribute to one candidate may unknowingly

1228
01:37:23,040 --> 01:37:26,360
have their money redirected to support someone they don't agree with.

1229
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:28,700
And third, it invites abuse.

1230
01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:32,540
Legal experts, including the Alaska Supreme Court

1231
01:37:32,540 --> 01:37:35,520
and two attorney general opinions, have already

1232
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:38,360
ruled that similar systems are unconstitutional

1233
01:37:38,360 --> 01:37:43,840
because they enable contribution laundering.

1234
01:37:44,300 --> 01:37:47,160
As city manager, Jared Hillbren, has said,

1235
01:37:47,260 --> 01:37:49,760
our city should prioritize responsiveness,

1236
01:37:50,260 --> 01:37:52,320
transparency, and long-term sustainability.

1237
01:37:52,920 --> 01:37:54,960
This loophole undermines all three.

1238
01:37:54,960 --> 01:38:24,860
To fix that, I'm asking the Council to take two steps by voting one to restore the original language of Section 2.101.090A in reinstating the ban on contributions from other candidates, controlled committees, and number two to add voter protection and Section 2.10.040BNC, allowing only technical changes by the Council and requiring voter approval for future amendments that we can arm our ordinance.

1239
01:38:24,960 --> 01:38:30,380
I urge you to vote yes on these amendments and do the right thing for our community, restore integrity,

1240
01:38:30,860 --> 01:38:34,460
close the little Paul, and give the power back to the voters. Thank you.

1241
01:38:34,540 --> 01:38:36,180
Thank you, Sharon, Regimandicus.

1242
01:38:44,170 --> 01:38:50,270
I am Regimandicus. I believe I was at the meeting when this item was changed and the argument

1243
01:38:50,270 --> 01:38:54,890
was that it had to be changed to allow contributions between committees because it was better

1244
01:38:54,890 --> 01:38:59,290
of the first amendment and that when you did that, you were respecting the first amendment.

1245
01:38:59,290 --> 01:39:06,750
So, it struck me with great curiosity, why we're putting it back and saying you can't give money

1246
01:39:06,750 --> 01:39:08,290
between candidate committees.

1247
01:39:10,250 --> 01:39:13,970
I don't have a problem with getting money between candidate committees.

1248
01:39:14,450 --> 01:39:15,510
Many people do it.

1249
01:39:15,810 --> 01:39:17,270
Some people don't.

1250
01:39:17,990 --> 01:39:25,590
What happens in, I've seen in many cases, you have a candidate who decides, I've done

1251
01:39:25,590 --> 01:39:31,150
running for office and then they divide up their campaign account among various people running

1252
01:39:31,150 --> 01:39:37,150
for office or they give part of it to charity or some of the other ways that you're allowed

1253
01:39:37,150 --> 01:39:43,010
to clear out a campaign account. And regarding transparency, we do have transparency. It's

1254
01:39:43,010 --> 01:39:48,130
called read the campaign reports. I don't know how many times I've had people come running to me

1255
01:39:48,130 --> 01:39:51,990
and saying, oh, did you know about this? You don't know about that? I go, yeah, did you? We did

1256
01:39:51,990 --> 01:40:01,130
the campaign report when it came out, and I really don't understand why people think that

1257
01:40:01,130 --> 01:40:05,610
you can tell the voter can put in a clause saying that the voter only the voters can

1258
01:40:05,610 --> 01:40:10,970
change this ordinance when it was an ordinance passed by the City Council. I don't know

1259
01:40:10,970 --> 01:40:16,490
why that got into our staff into this ordinance, because that's not the way it worked, and

1260
01:40:16,490 --> 01:40:20,750
that's not the way it ever works. The ordinances enacted by the City Council could be changed

1261
01:40:20,750 --> 01:40:21,910
by the city council.

1262
01:40:23,170 --> 01:40:24,830
If you limit change by the voters,

1263
01:40:24,930 --> 01:40:27,170
half of the pass by the voters in the first place.

1264
01:40:27,650 --> 01:40:29,470
So I do not support this item.

1265
01:40:30,330 --> 01:40:37,390
I am having a hope on just what's fine campaign finance laws,

1266
01:40:37,930 --> 01:40:39,910
back and forth on the whims of people to bang on,

1267
01:40:39,990 --> 01:40:44,530
who talked to them last time and I'm really questioning

1268
01:40:44,530 --> 01:40:47,670
why this is even being brought up.

1269
01:40:47,670 --> 01:40:48,490
Thank you.

1270
01:40:49,270 --> 01:40:50,630
Thank you, Reggie.

1271
01:40:50,850 --> 01:40:54,750
I'm going to bring it back to Council for further discussion and vote.

1272
01:40:55,310 --> 01:40:59,010
Then when we do have a motion on the Florida Prove by Councilmember Dimitri and a second

1273
01:40:59,010 --> 01:41:04,990
by Councilmember Orios and to continue discussion, Councilmember Bilito.

1274
01:41:06,570 --> 01:41:07,310
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1275
01:41:07,510 --> 01:41:12,110
I did want to hear from the public first and I'll speak up.

1276
01:41:12,410 --> 01:41:17,130
First of all, I wanted to say Ms. Grindel, you know that you and I have been a

1277
01:41:18,010 --> 01:41:32,630
According to this, for about 30 years, and you know I have the utmost respect for you as this has been your passion throughout your life and you did a tremendous job in cleaning up corruption at the county of Orange by getting a tin cup adopted.

1278
01:41:35,490 --> 01:41:43,390
It's just like in May of 2024, I can't support putting this back in our municipal code.

1279
01:41:44,330 --> 01:41:48,650
And it's because I believe that it would not withstand judicial scrutiny.

1280
01:41:49,570 --> 01:41:52,750
I believe it is an overreach.

1281
01:41:53,510 --> 01:41:59,010
And I know that the Supreme Court has ruled consistently that spending money to communicate political messages

1282
01:41:59,010 --> 01:42:05,750
is a former protected speech into the first amendment to the Constitution, and it all goes

1283
01:42:05,750 --> 01:42:14,010
back to a landmark case in 1976, Buckley vs. Baleo, because the government had overreached

1284
01:42:14,010 --> 01:42:22,850
in restricting the expenditure of money on campaigns. And I believe that what will happen

1285
01:42:22,850 --> 01:42:27,990
And if we enact this, is it a result of an anti-transparency?

1286
01:42:28,570 --> 01:42:35,050
Currently, the council has made it so that for all campaign accounts, everything is online

1287
01:42:35,050 --> 01:42:35,430
now.

1288
01:42:35,570 --> 01:42:39,490
You can go right on the city website and you can see what activities taking place.

1289
01:42:40,270 --> 01:42:44,190
I don't think everybody's the dime since I got elected three years ago and I hate raising

1290
01:42:44,190 --> 01:42:44,910
money.

1291
01:42:45,710 --> 01:42:50,630
Having to ask people to support you and give right a check, it's not fun.

1292
01:42:50,630 --> 01:42:58,890
And I don't want to create barriers for people of limited means to run for these offices.

1293
01:43:00,750 --> 01:43:04,510
And I think if another candidate wants to support me or another candidate,

1294
01:43:05,110 --> 01:43:10,110
that they should be able to write a check, and it's limited by our campaign finance ordinance.

1295
01:43:10,110 --> 01:43:17,970
The Supreme Court has said that you cannot limit, that you can limit campaign contributions

1296
01:43:19,050 --> 01:43:24,510
to a certain extent to avoid any corruption, and that's what we've done here.

1297
01:43:25,330 --> 01:43:32,430
And the reality of the situation is that let's say candidate A wants to support candidate

1298
01:43:32,970 --> 01:43:38,850
B, but candidate A is not a wealthy person, but they have a campaign account and they want

1299
01:43:38,850 --> 01:43:47,210
have a hundred bucks to candidate be. This ordinance would prohibit that, but there's several

1300
01:43:47,210 --> 01:43:52,350
legal workarounds which are anti-transparent. They can give it to a political party. They

1301
01:43:52,350 --> 01:43:57,230
can give it to a pack which is of a political organization. And then that entity can support

1302
01:43:57,230 --> 01:44:02,950
that candidate. And then there's no transparency whatsoever because nobody knows who gave money

1303
01:44:03,730 --> 01:44:13,550
And that's the point, is I think that we need to have more frequently reporting of campaign

1304
01:44:13,550 --> 01:44:15,050
contributions right now.

1305
01:44:15,150 --> 01:44:16,290
It's only every six months.

1306
01:44:17,390 --> 01:44:18,870
I was certainly support that.

1307
01:44:20,690 --> 01:44:26,730
But I think that the most transparent way to handle this is to have everything report online,

1308
01:44:26,950 --> 01:44:27,650
which we already do.

1309
01:44:27,850 --> 01:44:30,090
And so that way everybody knows who's supporting you.

1310
01:44:30,090 --> 01:44:39,210
And the other thing I'll say is that back in 1974, the voters of California voted to create

1311
01:44:39,210 --> 01:44:42,750
the Fair Political Praxis Act in the Fair Political Praxis Commission.

1312
01:44:43,710 --> 01:44:50,050
And since that time, the Commission has enacted many, many, many rules, and that is

1313
01:44:50,050 --> 01:44:56,070
morph into a 320-page manual, the local candidate manual, that is 12 chapters.

1314
01:44:56,570 --> 01:44:59,970
If you want one for political lovers, you better read that book.

1315
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:08,020
Look, because you're going to be in a lot of trouble. You're going to be sitting in a, before a hearing officer in Sacramento,

1316
01:45:09,220 --> 01:45:16,040
levied with fines. And I just think those already exist.

1317
01:45:17,080 --> 01:45:22,780
And I've read that book many times. Thanks to Ms. Grindel actually. I've actually read it a few times.

1318
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:33,700
And it debated on a few of the finer points, but I don't think that creating a situation

1319
01:45:33,700 --> 01:45:39,280
where a candidate has to hire a lawyer, just to run for political office, to make sure

1320
01:45:39,280 --> 01:45:41,280
they don't run a foul of a law.

1321
01:45:41,680 --> 01:45:47,820
I don't think that's right, and that's what we're creating here because there are hundreds

1322
01:45:47,820 --> 01:45:57,280
of laws that you have to abide by, and this is just one more that I don't think is necessary

1323
01:45:57,280 --> 01:46:00,120
because I don't think that there's any corruption that's been identified.

1324
01:46:01,320 --> 01:46:08,460
I haven't even seen this type of contribution take place, but I think it's a solution

1325
01:46:08,460 --> 01:46:14,260
looking for a problem, and I'll stop right there, thank you.

1326
01:46:14,960 --> 01:46:17,760
Thank you, Mayor Protem, Council Mayor Dimitru.

1327
01:46:18,740 --> 01:46:18,980
Thank you.

1328
01:46:19,200 --> 01:46:23,520
And I appreciate your passion for your point of view.

1329
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:25,540
I will respectfully disagree.

1330
01:46:26,000 --> 01:46:32,100
I do think, first, again, it doesn't dilute or chill free speech at all.

1331
01:46:32,380 --> 01:46:33,180
It's bookkeeping.

1332
01:46:34,580 --> 01:46:38,100
And I think it's important, again, while we talk about transparency.

1333
01:46:38,500 --> 01:46:39,980
Yeah, you can go online and look.

1334
01:46:39,980 --> 01:46:49,760
But if candidate, as you said, candidate A is running, and receives a max out contribution from a donor.

1335
01:46:50,380 --> 01:46:56,060
And then that donor donates to another council member or a three or four or five.

1336
01:46:56,460 --> 01:47:00,860
And then that money is funneled. You've now violated our campaign contributions.

1337
01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:05,300
You certainly ended the system. And that's the idea is really it's preventing that.

1338
01:47:05,300 --> 01:47:08,260
I don't want to see undue influence.

1339
01:47:08,460 --> 01:47:14,700
I don't want to see people diving into corruption by circumventing that.

1340
01:47:14,900 --> 01:47:15,780
It needs to be transparent.

1341
01:47:16,020 --> 01:47:17,480
And yes, they are online.

1342
01:47:18,120 --> 01:47:24,100
It is hard sometimes to look into figure out who's contributing to who I get that.

1343
01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:33,220
Tour, miscommunicists, just something and miscalacill, the city attorney brought up just

1344
01:47:33,220 --> 01:47:36,400
So you know, voting by the public is not going to occur.

1345
01:47:37,260 --> 01:47:43,360
It is a counsel thing that was removed because I wanted that, but apparently that is

1346
01:47:43,360 --> 01:47:51,300
not allowed or should not be allowed so that was actually removed in order to be more correct.

1347
01:47:51,700 --> 01:47:57,660
But when you talk about Mayor Protem when you brought up that, you know, you're belief in

1348
01:47:57,660 --> 01:48:03,200
it is 100 percent, you know, the first amendment, we violate the first amendment

1349
01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:10,100
by having, you know, in theory, a registry for lobbyists, you're telling people in order to

1350
01:48:10,100 --> 01:48:17,780
talk to the council to lobby on an item which is fundamental to the United States. Every item

1351
01:48:17,780 --> 01:48:22,440
has always been lobbied at some level that you have to pay money to the city and be on

1352
01:48:22,440 --> 01:48:28,480
a register. Wouldn't that also, for the sake of discussion, would that violate the First Amendment?

1353
01:48:28,480 --> 01:48:40,080
I think it might. I've voted against it. Well, there we go. So again, I'll I'll in my conversation at that, but I do appreciate your point and like I said after witnessing

1354
01:48:41,240 --> 01:48:50,100
in another race that this exact scenario occurring where you had a candidate running and then watching

1355
01:48:50,100 --> 01:48:59,520
multiple council members receive $482 and then $482 being transferred from each one of those

1356
01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:07,560
elected into that other candidates thing. It raised the exact reason why we need to put

1357
01:49:07,560 --> 01:49:13,760
this back into place and I know that it's disheartening and I appreciate those that went forward

1358
01:49:13,760 --> 01:49:20,980
last, but for me, I revisited it and I wanted to make the change and so it's before us now.

1359
01:49:21,880 --> 01:49:24,320
Thank you, Councillor Dmitri, Council Member Barrios.

1360
01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:28,200
Yes, we made voted on this previously.

1361
01:49:29,400 --> 01:49:35,540
I was for it at the time, so and I was against it when we voted to change these rules.

1362
01:49:35,540 --> 01:49:42,240
and I actually take great on bridge with, you know, the comments that Councilmember Bilodo brought

1363
01:49:42,240 --> 01:49:50,360
forward because I look at it exactly the opposite. If you are a true blue grass roots, you know,

1364
01:49:50,740 --> 01:49:56,140
just something just ticked you off and you decided to run for council that this ordinance as it is

1365
01:49:56,140 --> 01:50:02,360
written now actually helps you because then you don't have people who are part of the insider game,

1366
01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:08,540
of tons of connections who can easily go and you do see this all the time at the state level

1367
01:50:08,540 --> 01:50:13,640
and at the congressional level of people transferring in and out of campaign committees that

1368
01:50:13,640 --> 01:50:18,060
already exist. There's nothing wrong with that. But what we're saying is orange is that we would

1369
01:50:18,060 --> 01:50:23,420
like to see it be a lot more transparent that if you're knocking on doors and asking for money

1370
01:50:23,960 --> 01:50:28,360
and you're getting people behind you that we know exactly who they are and that they're from,

1371
01:50:29,660 --> 01:50:36,000
hopefully from here maybe they're from other places I mean I have relatives who donate from outside of the area and that's going to happen too

1372
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:48,220
but I think it's actually a much more fair playing field for the for the person who's trying to run for the very first time or does not have all of that long history in terms of politics

1373
01:50:48,220 --> 01:50:52,740
So I think it is a much more fair thing and personally since I never got an A plus in high school

1374
01:50:52,740 --> 01:51:00,880
Can we can attest to that? I am very excited to get back to my A-plus with Register in terms of how the City of Orange looks on our campaign campaign

1375
01:51:00,880 --> 01:51:04,880
Fineprint. This is where we were before and this is what we agreed to before.

1376
01:51:05,280 --> 01:51:08,720
I was really disappointed when we changed it last year.

1377
01:51:09,020 --> 01:51:11,880
And so I was working with Councilmember Dmitry.

1378
01:51:13,040 --> 01:51:16,080
I really wanted to see it go back to where it was before.

1379
01:51:16,320 --> 01:51:20,560
And so that is why I'm supporting this consistent with my previous vote on the item.

1380
01:51:21,500 --> 01:51:24,220
Thank you, Council Mayor Barrios, Council Member Tavaleros.

1381
01:51:24,760 --> 01:51:25,100
Thank you.

1382
01:51:26,300 --> 01:51:28,560
I hate going back to anything, backward on anything.

1383
01:51:29,020 --> 01:51:30,880
And I think orange is really bad at that.

1384
01:51:31,560 --> 01:51:35,040
But I think this is politically motivated and disingenuous.

1385
01:51:36,120 --> 01:51:38,320
I really don't care what one or the other, whether we take it or not.

1386
01:51:38,340 --> 01:51:44,340
If you look at 2024, none of the candidates running took any campaign committee money from any other campaign.

1387
01:51:44,980 --> 01:51:46,700
So there's an example for you.

1388
01:51:46,700 --> 01:51:52,360
I think we're going a little bit too far on this, but I can see where the votes are.

1389
01:51:53,640 --> 01:51:58,300
But as Mayor Pro Tem said, I think we are creating a solution for something that is not

1390
01:51:58,300 --> 01:51:58,740
a problem.

1391
01:52:01,510 --> 01:52:02,250
That's for all of it.

1392
01:52:03,390 --> 01:52:03,650
Thank you.

1393
01:52:03,830 --> 01:52:04,470
Council Member Teller.

1394
01:52:04,610 --> 01:52:08,210
I would like to ask how many meetings were held by the ad hoc committee.

1395
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:18,180
I submitted my paperwork ideas to the city attorney and to Councilwoman Barrios.

1396
01:52:18,180 --> 01:52:28,420
She sent her information to the city attorney, and then the information was sent back out to confirm it, and that's where we ended up.

1397
01:52:28,420 --> 01:52:29,080
That is correct.

1398
01:52:29,500 --> 01:52:30,960
And may I ask who wrote the ordinance?

1399
01:52:31,680 --> 01:52:32,300
We are nothing.

1400
01:52:33,960 --> 01:52:37,180
I hope we see if they draft from councilmember Dimitriu.

1401
01:52:39,560 --> 01:52:47,540
Hence the reason why she's removed part of it with that I liked, but because it didn't follow it, follow within what could be allowed.

1402
01:52:49,140 --> 01:52:50,260
Thank you.

1403
01:52:50,260 --> 01:52:50,820
Thank you.

1404
01:52:51,100 --> 01:52:52,220
Council Member Gutierrez.

1405
01:52:52,820 --> 01:52:58,740
Mr. Mayor, if I might just answer to the question too, I did speak with Ms. Grindel about

1406
01:52:58,740 --> 01:53:03,060
the original language we had in before, just to be transparent about that.

1407
01:53:03,320 --> 01:53:09,280
And that this adhered to that original information that we'd had before prior.

1408
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:12,060
So I just want to be open about that.

1409
01:53:12,060 --> 01:53:18,320
Council Member Tvelars, I also met with Ms. Grindel regarding the content of the draft order.

1410
01:53:21,190 --> 01:53:23,750
Everybody's clear, Council Mayor of Gautjira's.

1411
01:53:24,030 --> 01:53:25,030
Thank you.

1412
01:53:25,970 --> 01:53:32,370
I'm happy to see this come back because at our previous time we had this in front of us.

1413
01:53:32,590 --> 01:53:35,430
I bowed no, so I'm very happy that this is back.

1414
01:53:35,430 --> 01:53:44,550
to your point, Mayor Pro Tem about a person that is not savvy who doesn't have enough money.

1415
01:53:44,670 --> 01:53:51,710
I'm the perfect example. When I first ran, I had no knowledge. I didn't have anybody

1416
01:53:51,710 --> 01:53:59,550
that could contribute to me. It was all family and friends $25.50. I raised $8,000 and here I

1417
01:53:59,550 --> 01:54:06,430
perfect example of why we did not need to approve this when we did. And so I'm happy to see

1418
01:54:06,430 --> 01:54:15,180
this back. So thank you. Alright. Press the power of grassroots campaign.

1419
01:54:18,760 --> 01:54:18,760
Okay.

1420
01:54:21,140 --> 01:54:22,120
We flush this out.

1421
01:54:22,120 --> 01:54:27,540
And if I believe any last questions, suggestions, comments,

1422
01:54:28,700 --> 01:54:31,900
see none, the motion is to,

1423
01:54:31,900 --> 01:54:36,500
upside you are required to read the ordinance.

1424
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:38,260
So I brought my specs.

1425
01:54:38,620 --> 01:54:40,760
Council Member Dimitru, can you also please

1426
01:54:40,760 --> 01:54:44,340
submit the specified which version of the ordinance draft?

1427
01:54:45,420 --> 01:54:46,680
Thank you.

1428
01:54:47,160 --> 01:54:49,920
Sure, it's a 10.1, it's an introduction

1429
01:54:49,920 --> 01:54:58,300
in 1st reading of ordinance number 19-25, a Mending Chapter 2.1022 of the Orange Municipal Code

1430
01:54:58,300 --> 01:55:06,700
relating to controlled committee contributions, the hot file version provided by the city attorney.

1431
01:55:07,860 --> 01:55:08,460
Good enough.

1432
01:55:10,760 --> 01:55:12,860
All right. Well, we have a motion for Councilor Mayor Dimitris,

1433
01:55:13,060 --> 01:55:17,980
saying from Councilor Barrios. I just wanted to thank Council members, Dimitri and Barrios,

1434
01:55:17,980 --> 01:55:23,220
for stepping up and offering help as a subcommittee

1435
01:55:23,220 --> 01:55:24,820
to bring this back.

1436
01:55:25,020 --> 01:55:27,240
So thank you, please vote.

1437
01:55:35,870 --> 01:55:39,590
There's a approved four to two with Mayor Pro Tempillado

1438
01:55:39,590 --> 01:55:41,670
and Council Member Tauveleris voting no

1439
01:55:41,670 --> 01:55:44,570
and one absence, motions approved.

1440
01:55:46,960 --> 01:55:48,460
The next regular city council meeting

1441
01:55:48,460 --> 01:55:52,140
will be held on Tuesday, November 25th, 2025.

1442
01:55:53,100 --> 01:55:55,980
Wait a minute, are we having the next meeting

1443
01:55:55,980 --> 01:55:57,780
is actually December 9th, correct?

1444
01:56:00,330 --> 01:56:02,910
Next to me, we'll be next regular City Council

1445
01:56:02,910 --> 01:56:07,470
may will be held on Tuesday, December 9th, 2025

1446
01:56:07,470 --> 01:56:09,570
at 6 p.m. in the Council chamber,

1447
01:56:10,170 --> 01:56:13,390
with closed session beginning at 5 p.m.

1448
01:56:13,790 --> 01:56:15,910
This meeting is now adjourned.

1449
01:56:16,030 --> 01:56:16,610
Happy Thanksgiving.