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Good evening. Evening everyone. I'm
going to call to order the uh August

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24th, 2026 meeting of the PaloAlto City
Council. Madame Clerk, would you please

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call the role?
>> Of course. Council member Lowing

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» here.
>> Council member Rectal

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» here.
>> Council member Lou

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» here.
>> Mayor Vinker

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» here.
>> Council member Bert

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» here.
>> Council member Liths

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» here.
>> Vice Mayor Stone here for the record.

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All present.
>> Thank you, Madam Clerk. So, we'll move

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first to item one, which is a special
order of the day, which is to uh review

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applications and select candidates to
interview for vacancy vacancies on the

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historic resources board. Madam clerk,
did you have any introductory comments

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you'd like to make?

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» Good evening, mayor and city council
members. My name is Nicole Bissell,

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deputy city clerk. I'm joined by Mahani
Aun city clerk and tonight we will be

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presenting the applications for the
historic resources board extended

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recruitment.
Included in the extended recruitment for

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the historic resources board is three
full-term vacancies expiring on March

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31st, 2029. As for a quick summary of
our recruitment timeline, scheduled

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recruitment opened on January 13th and
closed on February 18th with three

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applications received for the HRB. City
Council reviewed applications in March

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and provided the clerk's office with
direction to extend the HRB recruitment.

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During the time period of extended
recruitment, we continued additional

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outreach and advertising efforts. One
application was withdrawn and one new

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application was received, bringing us to
three total applications for the HRB. At

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today's meeting, we are al ask asking
council to review the current HRB

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applications with interviews and
appointments tenatively scheduled on

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September 9th and 14th, respectively.

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Go back.

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This slide just provides a quick general
refresher on council's current interview

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selection process, noting that per the
current process, all candidates would be

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interviewed if there are six or fewer
applications.

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And moving on to our applicants, as
mentioned, we currently have three

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applications received for the HRB. Per
the process on the previous slide, all

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three candidates would typically be
invited to interview. However, it is at

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council discretion to authorize a
different process if desired. Council

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may also provide direction on continuing
HRB recruitment efforts if desired.

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However, as outlined in the staff
report, further extending recruitment

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may not be sustainable and could result
in a lack of quorum for the HRB.

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And I'll turn it back over to you,
mayor.

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» All right. Well, thank you to the city
clerk's office and thank you to those

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who have applied for the historic
resources board. We appreciate that. Um,

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colleagues, I'm told that we don't
necessarily need a motion uh that there

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that all of these applicants can proceed
forward unless there are any objections.

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[gasps] I've looked at them. They they
seem solid uh for interview purposes.

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So, now would be the time to tell me if
you have any reservations about whether

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at least one of them has the academic uh
qualification or uh whether there are

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any that you believe we should not
advance to interviews.

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Seeing no uh concerns, objections, or
comments, um madame clerk, I think you

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have the uh go-ahhead from the green
light from council to move forward with

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scheduling the HRB interviews.
>> Okay. Thank you, mayor. Uh we will move

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forward with scheduling. That date is
tenatively scheduled for September 9th.

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So, we'll work on that.
>> Great. All right. Thank you. Well, we'll

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look forward to that on September 9th.
Moving on to agenda changes, additions,

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and deletions. Mr. City Manager, are
there any?

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» We uh Thank you, mayor. We just had one
small change on your consent calendar,

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removal of item five, which will come
back at a later date.

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» Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, now we're
going to move on to in-person public

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comment for matters not on tonight's
agenda. Madame Clerk, how many uh

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speakers uh do we have at this point?
We have one group speaker um or speaking

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on behalf of a group of eight and then
one individual speaker.

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» Okay,
let's go ahead with the uh regular time

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amounts would that be three minutes and
then for the group

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» um
let's go with eight minutes.

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» Okay, our first speaker is Herb B.

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Uh good evening. Uh recently uh the
school board had a agenda uh where it

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discussed uh its opposition to an ICE
facility, immigration custom enforcement

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facility in Gilroy and also had
significant budget issues. uh when the

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Palo Alto Weekly uh posted a news story
about it, it was just about the ICE

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facility
and the public comments though were

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about the budget. Uh and it occurred to
me that maybe uh that wasn't the only uh

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difference going on. And I'm not a
member, I wrote a letter to the Weekly

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uh with full knowledge that they could
post it online, but they did not. uh and

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I tried to uh put it in the Daily Post
but the Deli Post has a policy of uh not

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uh printing things from other
newspapers.

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Essentially, it appeared that the school
boy may have been trying to focus

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people's attention on the ice facility
in Gilroy instead of paying attention to

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the significant budget issues
uh at the school board. Uh

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although the public felt differently
based on their comments,

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uh the the weekly subsequently posted
two news stories, one by the original

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reporter which was only about the budget
and one by the San Jose Post uh uh uh

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paper uh which is only about the ice
facility. It seemed to me there was one

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other item that might be considered.
That is if people are spending all their

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time uh opposing
uh a facility of immigration and custom

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enforcement
uh in Gilroy. That doesn't mean there's

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not going to be such a facility. And I
tried to think of where else it might go

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and it occurred to me one possibility
would be the Stanford Stadium. Thank

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you.
>> Our next speaker is Raymond G.

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Oh no.

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Good afternoon. My name is Raymond Gones
and I stand here representing eight

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community members that live here in
Palato.

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We the people of the United States in
order to form a more perfect union,

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establish justice, ensure domestic
tranquility, provide for the common

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defense, promote the general welfare,
and secure the blessings of liberty to

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ourselves and our prosperity do ordain
and establish.

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Those words were drafted through the
lens of profound inequality. When the US

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Constitution was drafted in in 1787, it
was presented as a document for we the

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people. But it was also built through
compromises that protected the power,

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property, and economic interests of
those who already held influence through

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enslaving Africans.
The constitution promises of democracy

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existed alongside a system that in
excluded enslaved people, women, indigen

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indigenous people, and many poor men
from full political participation in

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equal rights. Enslaved people were
counted for representation while being

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denied the right to vote, control their
own lives, or claim their full humanity.

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The original system con concentrated
political power largely in the hands of

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people who own property and in many
cases other human beings. But the fabric

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of American democracy did not evolve on
its own. It changed because ordinary

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people organized, resisted, voted,
marched, worked, and demanded that the

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nation live up to it stated ideals.
Labor tilled the soil, built

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communities, and sustained the nation.
People denied freedom and representation

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refused to remain invisible. They
resisted, organized, and fought for

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their humanity. Nearly 250 years have
passed since the Declaration of

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Independence proclaimed that all people
are created equal. And more than 235

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years have passed since the Constitution
was signed over that time.

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The citizens of enslaved people, people
whose ancestors were forced to build a

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nation designed to exclude them, have
entered and led some of the highest

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institutions in the United States. The
White House was built in part through

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the labor of enslaved people whose hands
helped raise its walls while they lived

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in servitude, denied freedom, and forced
to endur despair. Yet they resisted and

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generations later their descendants walk
through those same halls as citizens,

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leaders, and ultimately as a first
family. When Barack Obama became

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president, a house built in part by
enslaved hands became a house filled

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with hope. A reminder that even
institutions created amid inequality can

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transform when peoples organize, resist,
and demand to be included.

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History has taught us something
important. A government can use the

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language of equality while it policies
still preserve inequality. A system can

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appear open while remaining accessible
mainly to people who already have

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wealth, property, connections, housing
security and influence. The challenge

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does not exist only in Washington DC. It
exists here in Palo Alto as well.

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We as I represent the people are running
for Palatoto council because we see a

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city that is not being properly cared
for. The lens of inequality from which

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our nation has evolved has found ways to
evolve with us. We do not have the same

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laws or the same forms of exclusion that
existed in 1787. But we can still see

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the consequences of systemic inequality
in our neighborhoods in our in our local

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government. When I walk out my front
door, I see people who are once my

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neighbors now live gun unhoused across
the street from places they once called

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home, waiting for people to arrive for
help. As members of my as members of

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this community and through conversation
with workers who travel in and out of

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the city, we hear the same message again
and again. People want to live here, but

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they cannot afford to. They earn a
workingclass wage and many feel that

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living in Palo is simply impossible.
We applaud we applaud Palato for

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building affordable housing and for
recognizing that we must address our

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systemic homelessness crisises. But we
must be honest about what affordable

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means in Palato. Affordable to whom?
Will the bartender attending the bar,

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the workers serving our food, the
caregiver looking after our elders, the

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person cleaning our yards, the teacher
supporting our children, or the workers

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keeping our city running be able to
afford to live here? Or will affordable

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housing be available only to people who
are already economically comfortable in

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one of the most expensive places in this
country?

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Affordable housing cannot be just a
label. It must be a real path to to

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stability for people who serve this
community every day. We want a Palato

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where affordable housing is a
springboard where workers can live near

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their jobs, raise their families, build
savings, participate in civic life, and

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have a genuine chance to thrive here. We
also hear from community members who

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want to change a chance to join these
political circles but feel their voices

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will not be heard because they will
because they are not wealthy,

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well-connected or ivy educated. I have
listened to local coffee shops as

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residents describe their fear of
speaking out against a genocide in

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Garza. People are afraid to speak
because they care about humanity and see

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the world through the lens of love,
compassion, and empathy and not hate,

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division, and destruction. Local
government is where democracy becomes

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real. It is where decisions are made
about who can afford to live here, where

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the people have housing, whose children
can remain in our schools, whose voices

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are welcomed at city hall, and who is
represented at this table. Palatoto has

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a seven member city council.
Council member Julie Lot is currently

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the council's lone black member, and her
decision not to seek re-election leaves

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one of those seats open. At a time when
black residents and working-class

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families are increasingly being priced
out of Palo Alto, the possible loss of

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black representation
would be more than symbolic. It would be

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it would reflect a deeper pattern of
systemic displacement.

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If our neighborhoods become less diverse
while our governing institution also

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loses the voices of people most affected
by displacement, then gentrification is

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not only changing where people live, it
is changing who gets to shape Paloto's

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future. We cannot say that we hope that
we value inclusion while allowing

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communities to disappear from both our
neighborhoods and our city council.

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Ordinary people need representation. We
are not career politicians. We are

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community organizers. We do not seek
political power. We seek people power. I

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may be the one running for office, but I
represent ordinary people who want every

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person to thrive and to have a real
opportunity to live here in Palo Alto.

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We the people must mean more than the
people who can afford to stay. It must

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mean every worker, every family, every
longtime resident, every unhoused

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neighbor, every immigrant, every young
person, every elder, every person who

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believes Palatoto can become a city
where everyone has a voice and a place

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to call home. Whether or not we join you
on this council, our ask is the same.

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Let us build a Palo that works for all
its residents. Thank you.

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And that concludes public comment on
items not on the agenda for in-person

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public comment.
>> All right. So, thank you to our public

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commenters. That closed public comment
for general public comment.

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» No, it's closed, ma'am. It's too late.
>> Oh, for general for items not on the

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agenda.
>> Oh. Oh, okay. So, do do you have it,

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Madam Clerk?
No, we closed

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» very first things that's on there and I
put it in for the other speakers.

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» So, I did check the basket before we
were go before we started and it is

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» I should have tapped you on the
shoulder. I think I'm allowed to speak.

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» We close public comment after the first
speaker speaks.

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» I'm allowed to speak.
>> Yeah. Not not unless it was in early and

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apparently it was not. So, we will
welcome comments by email. We'll be here

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every week and we're happy to meet with
you. Yeah. All right. So, I'm sorry.

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Those are just the rules. We have to be
fair to everyone. We want to hear from

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everyone on the two topics. So,
>> okay.

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» No, I'd be happy to, but
>> let me just double check. So, madame

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clerk, when did you receive the
>> I couldn't

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be polite.

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» I checked the basket after the first
speaker finishes finished speaking and

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your comment card was not in the basket.
>> Okay. I just got finished saying I could

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have tapped him on the shoulder and
>> but but if she checked it just wasn't

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there. So ma'am we thank you for coming
and welcome you next time. All right so

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we need to move on to the next item. We
have very busy agenda tonight and we

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look forward to hearing from you in the
future. All right so um we are now

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moving on to council member questions,
comments, announcements. Before I do, I

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do want to say thank you to all of you
who went like this uh after the speech

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because we do encourage tonight um
whatever uh you know you want to do that

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way, but we don't allow any audible
comments in chambers whether it's a clap

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or a vocalization or or something. So
just know that that's how we do because

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we want everyone's opinions to be
expressed and no one to be intimidated.

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So, the silent thing that we can see is
fine, but we won't have audible comments

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tonight. All right. So, with that, uh,
colleagues, are there any council member

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comments this evening?
Council member Bird, I go ahead.

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Take your time.

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Thank you. Um,
so I I would just like to ask if we can

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have an update um perhaps at the uh next
uh city manager comments at the upcoming

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meeting on um there were we received u a
letter on concerns over

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um the operation at the home key
project. Um and uh maybe we can uh have

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an update on whether those issues that
were asserted are are um significant.

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And um
and that's all I have at this time.

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Thank you.
Thank you.

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Well, I would just like to thank all of
those who pitched in to make the state

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of the city event a great one last week.
um it really reflected our one community

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theme. So, we appreciate all the
residents and guests who attended.

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Really want to give a shout out to city
staff uh who made it an extra effort in

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a new venue that was unfamiliar to run
it for the first time as a formal public

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meeting and so thank you for that extra
effort. The tech team at the school

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district was phenomenal and so we really
appreciated them and the district for

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hosting. Reverend Koma Smith, the Mwakma
Aloney tribal leaders, Miss Araniano and

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Ms. Dominguez, the vice mayor. Uh, and
of course, uh, Lily Zang, our four-time

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Olympian and, uh, first American to
bring home a medal in that sport, and

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six-time national champion who was
nurtured right here in PaloAlto, who

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adjusted her schedule, flew back and
performed uh, free of charge for us. And

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so, that's somebody who can make us
proud. And, uh, and it was fun. So just

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thank you to everyone for that.
Colleagues, if there's nothing more,

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we'll get right to it with our study
session for this evening. All right. So

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we will move on to our semiannual city
council discussion with the independent

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police auditor uh Mr. Janako.

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» Thank you, Mayor. Let me uh invite our
independent police auditor uh to join us

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here at the table. I'll just uh take a
moment to introduce the topic. As the

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council is well aware and for
community's awareness, uh the city

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council has uh two times a year
opportunity to meet with our independent

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police office auditor, the uh office of
independent review. and uh this is to

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discuss trends in criminal criminal
justice and policing policy training and

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related matters as well as
recommendations made by OIR uh over the

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past uh several months. In addition uh
this evening we are anticipating the

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followup to prior council uh discussion
and interest in uh having a scope review

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for an audit related to automated
license plate readers. And so with that,

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Mr. Janak, turn it over to your your
team.

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» Thank you, Mr.

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» I think Mr. Connelly will start off the
discussion.

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» Good evening, mayor and and council
members. Steven Connley of O Group. Uh

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we're very happy to be with you as as
the city manager indicated. Uh we are

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here tonight with with Mike Janako who
has been uh working with the city of

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PaloAlto for for a number of years now.
And we're joined for the first time

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tonight by another one of our
colleagues, Teresa Magula. Uh she has

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been with us for for seven or eight
years now, but this is her first project

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working with the city of Palo Alto. And
we're very happy to have her um with us

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this evening. And we're certainly happy
to be to be back with you and and

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looking forward to the discussion. As
the city manager indicated, we have a

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couple of different um agenda items for
for discussion. And the first one is our

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our usual standard uh just report out to
you regarding our semianual public

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reports on the various categories of of
um

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particular concern with regard to the
department's internal review mechanisms.

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Uh so if we could have the next slide
please.

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So, uh, our relationship with the city
of PaloAlto goes back to 2007.

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Uh, and we have had some different
iterations of that and different

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adjustments to the scope of work and to
our our responsibilities along the way.

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But the the kind of the meat and
potatoes, the core of our contributions

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to the city are are semianual
reports. And what it basically does is

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is uh it's a an audit of of completed
investigations, internal investigations

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that the department has has compiled. Uh
we do it twice a year and basically get

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um the all of the the completed cases
from the audit period and we have the

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chance to review those and then to
provide summaries of the the cases and

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their outcomes and also have the
opportunity to kind of weigh in on our

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sense of how the department handled
these matters uh and make

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recommendations if we think that there
could be some productive adjustments to

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department policy or protocol with
regard are to these different areas. So,

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uh we have been to to um meet with you
folks directly on a number of occasions.

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00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:51,039
Our last appearance was in April of
2025.

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00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:58,240
Our um first the f first part of our
council u uh audit scope for for last

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00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:02,480
year. In other words, it covered the
first several months of 2025. and that

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00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:06,159
was presented as a as a public report
and and it was kind of a receive and

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00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:13,120
file item for the council back in
November of 2025 and we're here today to

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talk about the second half of of 2025
and the cases that uh we worked on in

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conjunction with that. The report I
think was published in in uh June of

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this year and as always the the public
reports give a much more detailed

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description of the the specific events
and our recommendations. Uh and as

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always the transparency of the process
is a big part of the the feature of it.

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All the reports are available online and
we encourage the public to to um read

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00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:49,360
those and and to provide us and and the
council and the department with any

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00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:55,679
feedback that that they consider
warranted. Next slide, please.

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So, as I said before that we we usually
divide the year up into part A and part

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B. In other words, the first several
months and the second several months. Uh

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we're going to be focusing tonight on
the the second half of our uh of our

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00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:13,679
reporting cycle and [snorts] the the
total number of cases. As you can see in

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00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:18,240
part B there, there were four different
completed investigations into

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00:34:15,359 --> 00:34:23,040
allegations of officer misconduct, five
uses of force, four weapon pointing

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00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:29,919
incidents. And so those are the the
major categories that have been set out

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00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:34,960
by your council as being the the um
areas in which you have asked us to

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00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:43,280
provide some additional scrutiny to the
department's own processes. Next slide.

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00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:47,679
So just in terms of uh an overview of
the second report, again we don't

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00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,839
conduct our own investigations. We
actually get contacted a number of times

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00:34:49,839 --> 00:34:56,879
a year by members of the public who have
a concern about an issue. They've had a

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00:34:54,560 --> 00:35:00,160
a a challenging encounter with the
police or a concern has come to their

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00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:04,240
attention. And one of the first things
that we make try to make clear to them

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00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:09,119
is that we don't do our own
investigations into these matters.

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00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:14,079
Instead, our role is to ensure that the
department's process is as complete and

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00:35:11,839 --> 00:35:18,400
thorough and legitimate as it can be. So
we provide that outside scrutiny and

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00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:22,720
that window of transparency. And if
somebody does reach out to us directly,

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00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:25,920
we are in contact with the department to
help facilitate that investigative

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process and make sure that their
complaint is heard and understood and

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00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:35,760
addressed appropriately. In terms of the
cases that were in the pool for this

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year's this um part of the year and in
this cycle, two of the the cases were

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sustained. the department found that
that the officers had in fact um

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violated one or more policies in
conjunction with the allegations and

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then the other complaints within the the
individual allegations were considered

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to be unfounded. As always, one of the
things that we're looking at apart from

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the the particulars of each individual
case and and I think there is value in

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00:36:01,839 --> 00:36:07,200
in letting the public know here are the
kinds of things that members of the

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00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:11,680
public are bringing to the department's
attention and also here are some of the

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00:36:09,839 --> 00:36:16,000
things that the department is doing in
terms of initiating its own

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00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:20,400
investigations when it has reason to
believe an officer has potentially

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00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:27,280
violated policy. So, we look at at both
of those categories.

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uh our our overall impression is is a
favorable one in terms of the

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00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:37,040
objectivity and the thoroughess with
which the department handles each of

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00:36:33,359 --> 00:36:41,680
these matters. We have access to all of
the case file evidence that the

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00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:46,079
department uses and we also have uh
access to the memos that the department

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00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:50,480
puts together in terms of of analyzing
and compiling all the different evidence

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00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:55,280
looking at the body wararm camera and
reviewing the contents as as relevant in

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00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:59,200
a in a given situation.
And it is our sense that the

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00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:03,760
department's process actually does have
legitimacy that they do take these

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00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:09,200
investigations, take these complaints
and allegations of misconduct seriously

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00:37:05,839 --> 00:37:14,240
and and handle them appropriately. The
other piece of it and that's the bottom

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00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:17,920
portion of of the the current slide here
and this is I I would say one of the

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00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:23,359
areas where we have seen the most
progress in terms of our time with with

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00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:28,960
PaloAlto is that the department has
really begun to emphasize uh the

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00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:34,079
holistic review of each one of these
incidents and rather than just kind of

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00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:38,560
focusing narrowly on the bottom line
result of the specific policy violation

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00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:42,960
or the specific complaint that is that
issue. It's true with the use of force

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00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:46,480
cases as well. We have encouraged the
department to take each of these

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00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:52,400
incidents as an opportunity to kind of
look at it in a 360 degree way and see

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00:37:50,079 --> 00:37:56,320
if even if there are aspects of the
encounter that are not directly related

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00:37:54,560 --> 00:38:03,440
to the complaint or directly related to
policy, but that are potential room for

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00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:08,160
officers to improve, adjust, try another
option. We have for years been been

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00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:12,400
encouraging the department to to treat
the process as an opportunity to embrace

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those things and to look for ways to
improve outside of the narrow parameters

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00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:23,280
of the discipline process and we have
seen a marketked improvement in that uh

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00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:26,880
area over the last few years uh the
department's willingness to do it and I

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00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:30,640
think the fruits of that and we we are
we're always careful to highlight it and

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00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:36,440
discuss it when we see it because we
really do think it is a positive thing.

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Next slide, please.

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There were five use of force incidents
that we looked at. And just to provide a

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refresher for the the public, a few
years ago, I think it was 19 uh excuse

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00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:52,880
me, 2021, the department expanded our
scope of work to add force cases for the

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00:38:51,359 --> 00:38:58,320
first time. I mean, there are specific
categories and the the the way that the

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00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:03,920
scope of work specifically sets it out
is that we are to look at each use of

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00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:09,119
force incident that results in medical
attention beyond mere clearance in the

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00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:13,440
field. So, we looked at five cases that
met that criteria. Three of the cases

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actually involved relatively minor
injuries, but because the person went to

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00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:22,960
the hospital to be looked at in
conjunction with the incident that that

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00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:26,079
became it fell under the umbrella of our
scope and and we had a chance to look at

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00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:30,720
it and see how the department handled
it. Two of the injuries that we looked

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at in this cycle were more significant.
There was a broken arm and that was

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00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:41,200
actually the result of a a relatively
standard and minor use of force. It was

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00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:45,839
a resisted control hold that that in
sort of an unfortunate accident ended up

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00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:50,160
resulting in a broken arm of the
subject. And the other case was a a

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00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:54,320
fairly significant canine bite that
resulted in significant injury to the

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00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:58,320
subject and and that person was
hospitalized in conjunction with that

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00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:03,040
that arrest.
As always, we break down each case and

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00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:08,160
the the department's review of it. The
department found each of these uses of

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00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:12,400
force to be in policy. Uh we agreed with
that, but as the report says, agreed

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00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:18,000
with some but with some reservations and
and so we kind of drill down into the

380
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:21,839
concerns that we had and again those
fuel the the recommendations that we

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00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:26,079
have for the department and and we have
found the department to be very willing

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00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:31,240
to engage with those and and to be
responsive to them. Next slide, please.

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00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:40,079
Uh, one of the categories again that
that was an expansion of our scope from

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00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:45,359
the early days and that was a a request
from your council had to do with our

385
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:50,880
evaluation of all pointed firearm
incidents involving the police. That's

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00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:55,280
anytime that an officer points a gun at
a subject in the course of a law

387
00:40:52,640 --> 00:41:00,000
enforcement encounter. The department,
and this is a relatively new thing, the

388
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:05,440
department is expected to document that.
the officers have to take responsibility

389
00:41:03,119 --> 00:41:10,560
for it, write about that in their
reports, explain the justification for

390
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:15,599
it, and then that um force deployment
and it is a type of force deployment is

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00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:20,240
subject to a fairly comprehensive review
by the department. This is the fourth or

392
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:24,560
fifth year that we have been doing this.
Uh and

393
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:27,359
it was a little bit rocky at the
beginning. I think it was a a big change

394
00:41:26,079 --> 00:41:33,280
for the department. And it took some
getting used to, but they have really

395
00:41:30,319 --> 00:41:37,359
become um much more adept at the
efficiency of making sure that they're

396
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:43,920
capturing all of these incidents and
that the review of them is is meaningful

397
00:41:40,319 --> 00:41:48,400
and productive in terms of the the u not
only the justification of it and are the

398
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:51,520
officers acting and and using that
authority in a way that's consistent

399
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:56,000
with their training, consistent with
department expectations, but also

400
00:41:53,920 --> 00:42:00,400
looking at the totality of the vent of
the event and looking for ways to to

401
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:04,000
again potentially adjust or correct
behavior. And sometimes they can be

402
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:08,240
technical things, minor things, things
that the subject would have no idea

403
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:12,319
about, but that the department is
flagging and and following up with as

404
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:16,400
far as uh engaging with its own
personnel.

405
00:42:14,079 --> 00:42:20,319
So that is certainly one of the positive
things that we want to highlight. One of

406
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:26,480
the things that we have uh that has been
a little bit of a struggle uh is is the

407
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:32,640
bodywn camera activation issue that has
been for a few years now a a source of

408
00:42:29,839 --> 00:42:37,520
concern for us that there are times in
which one or more officers do not have

409
00:42:35,359 --> 00:42:41,359
their body warn cameras activated in the
context of a given event. We've talked

410
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:45,599
to the department a lot about it. I know
that it has been a point of emphasis for

411
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:51,119
the department as well. They have some
new equipment that they hope will uh

412
00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:55,119
help reduce some of the inadvertent uh
issues that that officers were having,

413
00:42:53,599 --> 00:43:00,680
but it's something that we will continue
to monitor going forward. Next slide,

414
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,680
please.

415
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:10,160
So in terms of our our recommendations
for for this year's report, again, one

416
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:14,480
of the hopefully added value aspects of
our role here is not just to provide

417
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:18,560
some transparency and some outside
scrutiny into the department's handling

418
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:22,720
of these events, but to take advantage
of our familiarity with best practices

419
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:26,640
and our experience to make
recommendations about potential

420
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:32,640
adjustments to department practice,
policy, um, investigative protocols,

421
00:43:30,319 --> 00:43:35,520
etc. And I'll turn it back over to Mike
to to talk about some of the

422
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:40,960
recommendations in this most recent
report.

423
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:44,640
» Thank you, Steve. Um, so, uh, these are
the the four probably major

424
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:49,119
recommendations during this report
cycle. Um, they're pretty

425
00:43:46,319 --> 00:43:53,680
straightforward. Um, interestingly
enough, um, and I'm not sure it was this

426
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:58,240
will be attributed just to the
adjustments of the K9 protocol, but

427
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:03,119
since, uh, this report, there has not
been a deployment of a K9 bite, uh, over

428
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:08,240
the past several months, which, uh, you
know, ideally, you don't want a dog out

429
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:14,480
there, uh, and unless absolutely
necessary, um, using um, his his or her

430
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:22,240
teeth to uh, to detain a subject because
of the injuries that that could ensue.

431
00:44:17,839 --> 00:44:28,319
Um and so um we hope as Steve said that
the bodywn camera equipment and upgrades

432
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:34,640
uh will lead to more activation. Um and
then we also would like to see um more

433
00:44:32,079 --> 00:44:39,680
robust in and fair objective intake
interviews by supervisors which is how a

434
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:44,560
complaint gets into the system. So those
are our four recommendations from this

435
00:44:42,319 --> 00:44:48,720
past report. If we go to the next slide
please.

436
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:53,960
I'm now going to transition to the
second piece that Mr. Shakott had talked

437
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,960
about

438
00:44:54,000 --> 00:45:04,800
that that
we are going to address um and that is a

439
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:12,240
potential uh scope of the ALPR audit uh
that you all have talked about. So, uh,

440
00:45:09,599 --> 00:45:19,599
in preparation for that, uh, we did
develop, um, a list of ideas or topics

441
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:25,040
or potential areas of inquiry that we
could use to develop our audit. Uh, we

442
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:29,200
have also uh, increased our resources.
So the person on our team who is the

443
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:35,200
most experienced in learning about
ALPRs, identifying issues with regard to

444
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:40,160
ALPRs and actually conducting already
conducting audits of ALPR systems

445
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:44,160
throughout the state of California is
here with us this evening and that is

446
00:45:42,079 --> 00:45:47,200
Terresa Maggula. Teresa, if you could
just introduce yourself and then talk

447
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:52,079
about some of the audits you've already
performed.

448
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:56,160
» Thank you Mike and Steve and thank you
for having me this evening. council. My

449
00:45:53,920 --> 00:46:02,319
name is Terresa Maggoula with OIR Group.
Um, as Mike mentioned, our team has been

450
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:06,560
actively engaged with issues related to
automated license plate readers for

451
00:46:04,319 --> 00:46:11,119
several years, but obviously this has
become a heightened topic of awareness

452
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:16,400
um, both because of community trust and
concerns um, as well as more information

453
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:23,440
that's available about these systems um,
that the public has become aware of. Um

454
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:28,400
one of the factors that we've looked at
um is and is the sort of the essential

455
00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:34,800
function of governance. Um obviously
this council um as well as the police

456
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:39,040
departments themselves um can choose to
um internalize and and have strong

457
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:44,400
governance within their own
organizations and within their cities.

458
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:48,960
And so we've looked at uh three very
three different jurisdictions um in the

459
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:54,960
past few months with relation to audits
of ALPR systems and in particular around

460
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:59,359
governance. Two of those are counties um
Santa Cruz County and Santa Clara

461
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:04,000
County. Both of those counties are what
are defined as endusers. This means that

462
00:47:01,839 --> 00:47:09,599
those counties do not operate their own
ALPR cameras, but they are users of the

463
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:14,079
systems data. And so what we were
looking for in those particular counties

464
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:19,520
was the governance around the use of the
data, the access to data and the best

465
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:24,480
practices and policies surrounding that
use and access. One of the features that

466
00:47:22,319 --> 00:47:29,760
we provided early on to our
jurisdictions uh that we work with is

467
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:35,359
some model best practice policies
including language that aligns with the

468
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:40,560
state law uh the two state laws that
govern use of ALPR and data sharing

469
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:45,839
within the state of California. Of a
predominant importance in both of those

470
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:50,640
is the concept of not sharing with
federal agencies or agencies outside of

471
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:56,000
the state of California. That of course
has uh direct implications on some of

472
00:47:53,680 --> 00:48:01,280
the data sharing that was occurring uh
with federal partners uh early on in the

473
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:07,200
use of the flock system. And the other
piece that we look at as well is whether

474
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:11,599
individuals uh or agencies, excuse me,
agencies are preventing data sharing for

475
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:16,400
the purpose of any type of immigration
enforcement, any type of gender

476
00:48:14,079 --> 00:48:21,520
affirming care, any type of individuals
seeking medical care uh outside of the

477
00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:25,119
state or within the state borders. So
those are the audits that we were

478
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:29,440
conducting of those two end users. The
one that is more relevant to the city of

479
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:33,040
Palo Alto is the audit that we recently
completed and presented to the city of

480
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:38,640
Pasadena which is in Southern
California. The city of Pasadena is a an

481
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:45,520
owner and operator of their camera
system. Um they have both cameras from

482
00:48:42,319 --> 00:48:51,839
uh Motorola as well as Flock. And so we
took a look at the various issues

483
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:56,160
surrounding the data and governance. Um,
in particular, what we were looking at

484
00:48:53,599 --> 00:49:01,440
in the city of Pasadena was whether
their own internal audits were effective

485
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:06,640
and identifying the types of data
information uh the sharing that was

486
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:10,720
occurring um within the agency as well
as with external partners uh in the

487
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:16,240
state of California and to assess
whether they were capturing any uh uses

488
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:20,480
of data that may not align with state
law. The other piece that we were

489
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:25,520
assessing for the city of Pasadena was
the placement of the cameras themselves.

490
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:30,160
Um, and we were looking there for
whether the cameras were placed in uh

491
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:34,079
disproportionate
uh with disproportionate rates in

492
00:49:32,319 --> 00:49:38,079
communities uh that may have been
populated uh with higher persons of

493
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:42,640
color. And so what we were looking at
there was were they placed with the

494
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:47,359
intent to overp police or over surveil
those particular communities or were

495
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:51,680
they placed there for uh operational law
enforcement purposes. Uh and so those

496
00:49:49,359 --> 00:49:57,359
were the two main features. The city of
Pasadena is also currently revising and

497
00:49:54,319 --> 00:50:00,880
revamping its ALPR policy and we are
working with them on setting the

498
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:05,599
appropriate guard rails as we did with
both Santa Clara and Santa Cruz

499
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:10,559
counties. I think it's important to note
that the purpose of these audits um is

500
00:50:08,319 --> 00:50:17,040
really to provide an independent and
unbiased perspective on the data that is

501
00:50:14,079 --> 00:50:23,119
available. And so what we're looking at
is what the system actually does. What

502
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:27,760
are the actual functions of this system?
What data is it producing, storing, and

503
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:32,880
retaining? And for how long? We're
looking at who can access the data, what

504
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:37,680
kinds of controls exist, and whether
those exist internal to an agency or

505
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:43,680
from the vendor, and whether those
controls actually work. So, is the

506
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:48,880
agency able to identify any misuse of
data or any data sharing that is outside

507
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:53,839
of compliance with state law?
and whether and where additional

508
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:58,480
safeguards might be necessary. Whether
that looks like uh safeguards with

509
00:50:56,559 --> 00:51:03,839
respect to policy and procedures or
training or it looks like any safeguards

510
00:51:02,319 --> 00:51:09,440
that might be put into place with
memorandas of understanding or with

511
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:15,440
contracts directly. And so essentially
our our audit scope is developing as we

512
00:51:12,319 --> 00:51:19,520
are working with various agencies. And
so we're very pleased to have your input

513
00:51:17,599 --> 00:51:25,359
and insight into the scope of this
particular audit um as we're developing

514
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:32,640
it sort of here in real time.
>> Thank you Teresa. Um so this whole issue

515
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:36,240
of automated license plate readers ALPR
is the word that I will use as an

516
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:42,720
acronym to try and shorten our
presentation a bit. Um

517
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:46,079
is something that has raised uh that has
reached the national consciousness. I

518
00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:50,800
mean there is discussion about this
issue and the competing concerns

519
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:55,680
throughout the country. Uh in particular
California because of the uh

520
00:51:53,119 --> 00:52:01,920
legislaturator's restrictions on sharing
information with uh immigration uh

521
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:06,079
customs enforcement and as well as
concerns about sharing information for

522
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:14,400
those who might want to use the
information to restrict uh access to um

523
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:19,119
reproductive care. uh
the issue has has has become even more

524
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:23,119
significant in this state. Um so you're
seeing a lot of concerns, a lot of

525
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:27,680
issues being raised up and down the
cities uh in California and many of the

526
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:32,079
cities that we work with as Teresa
indicated. Um I think there's a lot of

527
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:37,200
reasons for it. I think that there are
some competing values here in which it's

528
00:52:34,319 --> 00:52:42,160
uncertain uh whether the potential
efficacy in using this technology is

529
00:52:40,319 --> 00:52:48,160
outweighed by the concerns about
increased surveillance of people uh who

530
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:52,559
are driving around this area. Uh and
those are competing in uh concerns that

531
00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:58,160
people would have potentially different
views or opinions about. How important

532
00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:03,280
or how effic efficacious does this
technology need to be to override the

533
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:08,559
concerns potentially about uh increased
surveillance of individuals who are

534
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:13,680
driving to the grocery store? Um the
there the issue has that that's kind of

535
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:19,119
one of the basic issues, but it's become
conflated uh and uh as a result of some

536
00:53:17,119 --> 00:53:23,920
other concerns that have come out as a
result of that as a result of some

537
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:30,079
potential missteps or actual missteps by
the vendor. Uh and that is the concern

538
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:35,280
about inappropriate data sharing with uh
agencies that state law says you are not

539
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:41,280
supposed to share this information with.
uh as well as a as well as uh the

540
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:46,559
concerns about are there enough internal
controls. Does the vendor have enough

541
00:53:43,839 --> 00:53:52,640
external controls to ensure that the
data that is collected will be collected

542
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:57,520
for limited purposes that officers will
not have access to information and use

543
00:53:55,040 --> 00:54:04,640
them in an appropriate ways uh and a
whole other host of concerns. So this is

544
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:10,400
a uh uh an area that is wide ranging and
um the scope of work uh will hopefully

545
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:14,559
try to identify this my vision uh but
certainly we are here to hear from you

546
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:19,599
all but one of our visions is one to
make sure that we tell the story in

547
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:25,200
PaloAlto which means how did we get
here? What happened? How did this, you

548
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:32,720
know, contract begin to exist? And how
did it end up being a big surprise when

549
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:37,119
um the city learned uh after months of
the LPR cameras going that there were

550
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:42,880
some concerns or issues with regard to
inappropriate data sharing? How did that

551
00:54:39,359 --> 00:54:48,079
happen? And then most importantly, uh uh
one of the things we want to talk about

552
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:53,440
is now that it's happened, what level of
trust do we have in the vendor? What

553
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:59,200
level of trust could we have in internal
controls, vendor controls to ensure that

554
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:04,480
on a forwardgoing basis should the
program continue whether or not uh there

555
00:55:02,319 --> 00:55:09,280
is enough confidence in those internal
controls to ensure that the missteps of

556
00:55:07,119 --> 00:55:15,520
the past will not be repeated in the
future. Um what we liked about the

557
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:20,000
city's approach here is the fact that
ordinarily in Pasadena, Santa Cruz,

558
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:25,839
Santa Clara County, we were given a
scope of work um and then we completed

559
00:55:23,839 --> 00:55:30,960
the task within the scope of work. But
here the scope of work appears to be a

560
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:35,040
living breathing document uh with input
from elected officials. And what I what

561
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:39,200
I particularly like and I think my
teammates would agree with me about that

562
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:43,920
is we're not going to write a report in
an audit about what we think you want,

563
00:55:41,599 --> 00:55:48,559
but we will actually have the ability to
hear from you what you want in this

564
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:52,880
scope of work. So we're pleased to hear
from you unless anyone on my team has

565
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:56,960
any additional comments. I think we'll
end at this point, but certainly

566
00:55:54,799 --> 00:56:01,280
available to uh talk with you about some
of the issues and some of the potential

567
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:05,119
tasks uh that would be, I think,
important and helpful for you as you

568
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:09,280
ultimately make your decision about what
to do with ALPR programs in your city.

569
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:13,440
So, thank you, mayor. Thank you,
council. And we'll end at this point,

570
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:16,960
but certainly available for discussion
and questions.

571
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:22,000
» All right. Well, thank you, Mr.
Connelly, Mr. Janako, and Miss McGillo.

572
00:56:20,319 --> 00:56:29,599
particularly helpful to have you here
tonight. Um, you know, as you've all

573
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:37,839
heard, we have both our uh typical uh
semiannual uh report um uh that the uh

574
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:41,760
independent police auditor gave. Um we
are proud here in PaloAlto to be one of

575
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:46,240
only two cities in the county that have
an independent police auditor twice a

576
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:52,960
year reporting to council on the
behavior of uh our police uh officers uh

577
00:56:50,319 --> 00:57:00,000
including as was mentioned um use of
force and uh uh pointed uh firearms. So

578
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:07,440
uh thank you for that. Uh but we also uh
previously uh requested that this um

579
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:13,040
that there be an audit of uh ALPR
systems and uh so tonight uh it was

580
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:18,799
agendaized as a study session because
that's typically how we agendaize the

581
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:25,040
IPA uh report and so we can give
feedback on the uh scope of the audit

582
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:30,000
and uh related questions. I mention that
because this was not agendaized as a

583
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:34,240
decision-making final uh decision
tonight on what we do about this issue.

584
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:38,000
That's obviously of great community
concern, but we are concerned as well

585
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:42,559
and want to hear from you. And so that's
why we uh are grateful you're here and

586
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:48,880
look forward to the conversation.
Um

587
00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:54,079
so with that um you know this this audit
hopefully will answer questions uh that

588
00:57:51,359 --> 00:57:58,319
we aren't in a position to decide
tonight but obviously things like do we

589
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:04,960
use ALPRs at all and if so do we use
flock and etc etc. So um let me first

590
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:10,160
open it to my colleagues to see if there
are any clarifying questions that you

591
00:58:06,799 --> 00:58:15,040
have for uh our uh independent police
auditor team. Um and then if not we will

592
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:20,760
hear from the good folks here in our
chambers through public comment. Council

593
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,760
member Bert.

594
00:58:20,799 --> 00:58:29,680
» Thank you. [clears throat] So first I
want to say that um I having reviewed

595
00:58:26,319 --> 00:58:36,240
your uh scope of work um I found it to
be very comprehensive. Uh I was pleased

596
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:42,240
at just how many aspects you intend to
uh dive in on. And then uh I I was not

597
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:50,000
aware when we uh asked you to take this
on uh that you already have had um

598
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:54,400
similar not identical um uh task for
three other government agencies. So

599
00:58:52,079 --> 00:59:02,160
that's gives you a lot of foundation
there. Um I I I found under the section

600
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:08,480
six the the um vendor governance and
platform evolution to be really

601
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:15,520
important because this is an evolving
area where we certainly have been

602
00:59:11,119 --> 00:59:22,880
concerned with um actions that have
happened up until now. And a big

603
00:59:17,839 --> 00:59:27,280
question we have is how well um uh has
the vendor uh addressed many of the

604
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:33,520
concerns that we in the public have and
and how well haven't they? Um but then

605
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:39,280
um under section 8, one of your
questions uh that you identified is

606
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:46,319
whether uh this effectiveness and value,
whether the um uh program contributes

607
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:52,000
meaningfully to investigative outcomes.
And I wanted to

608
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:57,440
ask if that's going to be answered in a
quantitative way. I know that you had

609
00:59:54,160 --> 01:00:06,960
wanted to uh distinguish between
um uh uh uh where it was central versus

610
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:11,520
it was supplemental. Uh but is are you
in your discussions with our department

611
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:15,760
will you be getting uh some form of
quantitative data?

612
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:19,839
» Thank you for that question, Council
Member Bert. And it's my understanding

613
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:23,680
that the Palo Alto Police Department is
currently quantifying that type of data

614
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:28,000
and we will be receiving that data from
the department itself. Yes.

615
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:34,079
» Great. And then under best practices and
benchmarking,

616
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:39,920
I didn't see anything referencing um
alternative providers. I mean, we've had

617
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:44,559
uh the city of Campbell who's taken uh
one approach, Stanford University

618
01:00:42,079 --> 01:00:49,520
another. Um, is that something that
would be in your scope of work or is

619
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:53,119
that within what the department would be
looking at

620
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:56,559
» with alternative providers? Are you
speaking of just different vendors that

621
01:00:54,880 --> 01:01:00,480
have the same solution or different
types of solutions?

622
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:06,160
» Different types of solutions as well as
different vendors with might have uh

623
01:01:03,119 --> 01:01:10,480
better security that we're looking for.
Yeah, I would say that we have the

624
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:15,040
capacity to look at different vendors
and the types of programs that other

625
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:20,079
agencies are using. Um, as far as other
types of solutions for the same exact

626
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:27,000
sort of use case, I'd be more limited in
in providing that kind of information.

627
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:27,000
» Okay. Um,

628
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:36,880
so for example, we we have we know
locally that um the two I'm aware of are

629
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:41,680
Stanford and and Campbell.
Would you be looking at the the

630
01:01:39,599 --> 01:01:45,920
approaches that they're taking? Is that
>> We certainly could. Yes.

631
01:01:42,799 --> 01:01:50,720
» Okay. All right. Thank you.
>> Council member Lowing.

632
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:58,240
» Yeah. To start, I just had uh one
question. The item

633
01:01:54,640 --> 01:02:04,799
Too much paper here tonight.
Oh yeah. Item three, bullet point two,

634
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:09,599
whether currentus adequately define and
limit access and use.

635
01:02:06,559 --> 01:02:13,680
» And my broad question there is whether
this issue [clears throat]

636
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:17,280
has any merit since someone can break
the law. Maybe that's the way I would

637
01:02:15,359 --> 01:02:21,359
put it. So we have anou, you're supposed
to act this way, but then the officer

638
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:26,640
doesn't act that way. They actually
break the law. Um, doesn't that mean

639
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:32,400
there's automatically a a a data leakage
there that gets in the way of thisou?

640
01:02:31,119 --> 01:02:34,880
» I mean, maybe I'm not phrasing it
exactly.

641
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,960
» No, I I think I understand what you're
looking at.

642
01:02:35,119 --> 01:02:42,640
» I mean, there's like human factors that
go into this that that can release the

643
01:02:39,599 --> 01:02:47,680
data as has happened by some officers
around the country that not not here. I

644
01:02:45,119 --> 01:02:51,119
think with respect to theus what we're
looking at is data sharing between

645
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:55,280
different partner agencies and so we're
really looking sort of a level up from

646
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:59,119
the individual actor. Okay. When we're
talking about the kinds of audits and

647
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:02,799
internal policies that a department
might have that's where we're looking at

648
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:06,640
those act sort of the individual human
factor the individual actors. And so

649
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:10,079
what we're looking at in these systems
as well is does the department

650
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:16,559
internally have the sufficient
safeguards and the the uh frequency of

651
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:20,880
audits to be able to capture the
individual actors and the access and and

652
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:24,160
sort of the the searches that those
individual actors are using.

653
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:26,880
» Good. That directly uh addresses my
question. Thank you.

654
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:31,039
» And council member Long, if I could just
be a little more specific, we're going

655
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:36,240
to I think we would look at it two ways.
One, as Theresa indicated, uh whether

656
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:42,160
there are sufficient uh safeguards to
identify officers or other personnel who

657
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:48,880
inappropriately access the database for
the wrong reasons, for personal reasons,

658
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:54,240
but also to prevent that upstream from
happening through training, guidance,

659
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:59,119
and the kind of information to future
officers about these are going to be our

660
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:03,440
expectations, and you should be assured
that if you violate

661
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:07,359
uh the need to know and use it for
personal interests that uh we're going

662
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:12,359
to take appropriate action. So there's
going to be need to be a training

663
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:12,359
component as well.

664
01:04:13,119 --> 01:04:19,200
» Council member Leth.
>> Thank you, Mayor.

665
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:22,880
Um
Mr. Janako, Mr. Connelly, Miss Maggula,

666
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:27,119
thank you very much for your
presentation. I'm wondering if the

667
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:31,599
benchmarking item could be augmented to
include reference to how many

668
01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:36,799
municipalities in California have
terminated flock contracts, covered

669
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:41,599
cameras, and maybe a subset, how many in
the Bay Area. Um, it'd be helpful for us

670
01:04:39,599 --> 01:04:47,480
to understand what is happening in our
peer jurisdictions as we undergo this

671
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,480
conversation here.

672
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:56,640
» That is an excellent ad and we will
certainly add that in. I think the other

673
01:04:52,960 --> 01:05:00,960
component would also if if I may be to
take a look at the various jurisdictions

674
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:04,720
that might just be end users of the
system um that are not operating their

675
01:05:03,039 --> 01:05:08,079
cameras but that are still accessing the
data. I think that's an important

676
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:13,960
distinction to know whether an agency
has access to the data even if they

677
01:05:10,079 --> 01:05:13,960
don't operate their own cameras.

678
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:19,119
» Council member Rectal.
>> Okay. Thank you.

679
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:24,559
[clears throat] Your scope has both
internal access within PAPD using the

680
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:28,319
data and also external the people that
we share with the other departments. Are

681
01:05:26,799 --> 01:05:34,160
you going to be looking at all vendor
access and our data is shared with the

682
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:39,920
vendor and can we investigate how they
use it and what kind of safeguards they

683
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:44,720
have that they aren't misus using it.
>> And that's kind of in a black box which

684
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:47,760
makes it hard for us because we have to
trust what's going on in that black box.

685
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:51,200
and should we be trusting what's going
on in the back that that black box? So,

686
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:54,599
is that something that you'll be doing
in your scope?

687
01:05:55,200 --> 01:06:02,559
» Item six contemplates some of those
vendor governance and and sort of the

688
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:06,000
platform evolutions, but certainly it I
agree with you. It is a black box. It's

689
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:09,520
one that's difficult to get into. Um,
and so it would really highly depend on

690
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:14,960
the type of access that we're able to
get uh at that level. So I don't want to

691
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:18,880
overpromise and underdel but certainly
it's an intention that we would take a

692
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:22,400
look at some of the ways that uh the
vendor is both protecting and

693
01:06:20,319 --> 01:06:25,280
potentially using the data that is going
into the system.

694
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:30,960
» And in your past audits have you looked
into the vendor being able to look at

695
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:35,119
their internal use um policies?
>> No, those were not part of the scope of

696
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:38,079
work uh for the prior three audits that
we've conducted. That would be a net new

697
01:06:37,039 --> 01:06:39,520
component here.
>> Okay. I think it would be useful. Thank

698
01:06:39,359 --> 01:06:42,720
you.
>> I agree. Thank you.

699
01:06:43,119 --> 01:06:51,920
So just following up on that point, um
when we discussed this last time, um uh

700
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:56,400
we talked about uh your bullet point
three and or the third bullet point

701
01:06:53,520 --> 01:07:01,359
under item four, whether data deletion
practices are automatic, verified, and

702
01:06:58,319 --> 01:07:07,599
consistently applied. And the question
was also um could we check whether they

703
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:12,400
audit that? So not just whether that's
part of their practices but in you know

704
01:07:09,599 --> 01:07:16,880
are we auditing that the vendor is
actually deleting. So have you seen that

705
01:07:14,559 --> 01:07:21,920
or is that something that is could be
added to this uh scope of work?

706
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:28,480
» Just for a point of clarification the
particular item here is around uh the

707
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:34,960
the police department's own data itself.
And so when we're looking at whether the

708
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:38,240
vendor is um deleting or retaining in a
different way in a different system, I

709
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:42,799
wouldn't be able to answer that. But the
police department's own instance of its

710
01:07:41,119 --> 01:07:46,160
flock database is what we would be
looking at here.

711
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:51,680
I don't know if that quite
>> No, I understand your answer. I'm just

712
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:57,200
want to I guess I would be curious if
there's anybody out there who not only

713
01:07:54,000 --> 01:08:00,720
has the policies on their own servers of
data deletion and all that, but there's

714
01:07:59,039 --> 01:08:04,240
some kind of auditing that there's
actually compliance with those policies.

715
01:08:02,559 --> 01:08:09,520
That's a whole another level. and if
there were any way to assess what you

716
01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:15,359
know what current practices are or could
be or what success rate they've had on

717
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:19,359
that because um you know it's one I have
I have greater confidence in in in the

718
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:27,520
folks that we see every day than than
the vendors on that.

719
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:33,880
Um okay and then my other question is um
go back to my other question

720
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:33,880
uh

721
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:43,920
got so into that I may not remember.
Just give me a moment here. Um

722
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:49,040
well, let me just ask you generally,
have you seen for however long you've

723
01:08:46,159 --> 01:08:56,719
been doing these audits um you know
improvements in uh practices by vendors

724
01:08:53,520 --> 01:09:01,199
with respect to um you know trends
improving uh controls usage and

725
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:06,000
compliance and all of that like what
have you observed? Yeah, that that has

726
01:09:03,839 --> 01:09:11,199
absolutely been the trend over time and
and perhaps rightly so because they

727
01:09:08,239 --> 01:09:16,319
started on rather shaky grounds. Um but
most recently, I believe it was last

728
01:09:13,199 --> 01:09:21,359
week um on the 13th um in particular,
one vendor released a host of new

729
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:24,719
functionality within the systems
platforms. Um I could go through those

730
01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:29,600
but it's certainly something that the
audit will be looking to ensure that uh

731
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:33,520
both this department as well as the
vendor is adhering to those new

732
01:09:31,679 --> 01:09:37,679
standards that they've applied um and
that they've given to themselves. So we

733
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:44,239
will be looking at those as well. But
certainly over the course of the last

734
01:09:41,839 --> 01:09:48,239
almost a year um there has been a lot of
transition in the particular platform

735
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:53,040
and and the effectiveness of kind of
that tool itself. Um, one of the most

736
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:57,600
important things that came to light, of
course, was that the feature called

737
01:09:55,199 --> 01:10:01,280
national lookup, which was allowing
agencies outside of the state of

738
01:09:59,199 --> 01:10:05,440
California to view data from the state
of California. Um, that was turned off

739
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:10,159
for the state of California. So,
thankfully that was captured. Um,

740
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:15,440
unfortunately, it was something that was
in violation of uh various contracts as

741
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:21,040
well as state law. Um, but that has been
turned off. Another feature that has uh

742
01:10:18,239 --> 01:10:26,400
recently come to light was terminating
the access by national um what what are

743
01:10:24,719 --> 01:10:30,000
sometimes called fusion centers. There's
one here in Northern California referred

744
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:34,480
to as Nickrich and one in Southern
California referred to as JRIK. These

745
01:10:32,239 --> 01:10:39,120
were agents agencies that were
essentially looking at kind of the

746
01:10:36,719 --> 01:10:45,120
regional partnerships in collaboration
with various federal task forces. those

747
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:50,159
agencies had access to the database
directly and were able to be users of

748
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:55,360
that data. Those contracts were
terminated and the access was turned

749
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:58,239
off. In other words, the any any partner
potentially at the federal level that

750
01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:03,360
was happened to be sitting in one of
these regional centers can no longer

751
01:11:00,480 --> 01:11:06,480
access this department data um that's
within the state of California. So

752
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:11,440
that's a feature that was turned off
recently. Um and then of course

753
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:15,760
individual agencies are determining sort
of how they want to adjust their

754
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:19,840
governance and their data sharing. And
so some agencies are saying we're only

755
01:11:18,159 --> 01:11:24,560
going to share with regional partners
because that's what makes sense. We're

756
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:29,520
only going to share with um you know
agencies that have a ne a direct nexus

757
01:11:27,199 --> 01:11:32,800
to our agency. There are others that
have determined we're only going to

758
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:37,040
share with agencies that are committed
to doing their own types of internal

759
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:41,440
audits in the same way that we are. And
this is sort of going back to theus um

760
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:46,560
that we highlighted earlier that
agencies are now taking more control and

761
01:11:43,679 --> 01:11:50,159
ownership of where their data goes and
the data that they themselves access. So

762
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:55,600
that's something that we're seeing
agencies sort of realize we can control

763
01:11:53,280 --> 01:12:00,239
this for ourselves to be responsive both
to the needs of our public as well as

764
01:11:58,159 --> 01:12:04,640
the direction and the concerns that our
public is is having related to the

765
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:09,520
surveillance technology.
>> Thank you. And finally, uh, would it be

766
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:17,679
within the scope of something you could
do to look at, um,

767
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:23,840
vendors provisions or agreement to
remedies for non-compliance because we

768
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:27,840
had a non-compliance and as far as I can
tell, there was no recompense for it.

769
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:31,600
And so,
the point isn't to get paid for a

770
01:12:29,679 --> 01:12:35,199
violation. The point is to deter the
violation in the first place. And it's

771
01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:40,480
one thing to have high expectation of
our own police department, but these

772
01:12:38,719 --> 01:12:44,719
entities are businesses.
>> Businesses operate on profits. Money is

773
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:49,120
a deterrent. And if you have the
appropriated liquid appropriate

774
01:12:46,159 --> 01:12:54,080
liquidated damages or other um things
written into a contract, they're more

775
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:57,920
likely to comply and self self enforce.
So have is it within your scope to look

776
01:12:56,159 --> 01:13:02,239
at provisions like that and come back
and tell us what has worked or not?

777
01:13:00,239 --> 01:13:05,840
» Yeah. So this is another one of the
kinds of controls that's happening sort

778
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:10,800
of in real time. So what we're seeing is
agencies, especially large agencies like

779
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:14,880
the LAPD in Southern California are
really taking ownership of the contract

780
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:19,920
language itself. And it is something
that I think both both the city and

781
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:23,679
counties as well as the vendor are
cluing into. It is important that we

782
01:13:22,480 --> 01:13:27,679
have the right language and the
appropriate language within our

783
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:31,760
contract. And so it's a space that is
evolving sort of as we're talking here

784
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:35,679
tonight. Um and it is one that we're
certainly willing to to report back.

785
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:39,120
Whether or not it's effective or not,
the window might be a little too short

786
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:42,800
for us to be able to assess that. But we
can certainly provide that kind of

787
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:47,520
language and modifications um as other
agencies have taken it on.

788
01:13:44,719 --> 01:13:50,400
» Thank you, Vice Mayor Stone.
>> Thank you, Madam Mayor, and thank you

789
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:55,280
for this scope. I think it's an
excellent starting point. I agree with

790
01:13:52,159 --> 01:14:00,000
the feedback already provided. One
question, not quite sure if the scope

791
01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:04,000
gets to it, and I would kind of call it
examining like pattern of life

792
01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:08,560
capabilities.
Basically, like can this system either

793
01:14:06,159 --> 01:14:13,760
by itself or in combination with other
databases tell us where a particular

794
01:14:11,199 --> 01:14:17,679
vehicle has traveled over time, how
frequently it visits particular

795
01:14:15,679 --> 01:14:21,600
locations, or identifying recurring
travel patterns or associations between

796
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:26,159
vehicles?
And if so, do our policies then

797
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:31,120
distinguish between LPR uh to
investigate a particular incident, for

798
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:35,280
example, recovering a stolen vehicle um
or using historical data to be able to

799
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:40,640
reconstruct
someone's movement over a longer period

800
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:45,440
of of time. I mean, because for me,
those are very different uses of

801
01:14:42,719 --> 01:14:50,960
technology. One is for a legitimate law
enforcement purpose and the other is big

802
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:57,040
brother. And does this so does the scope
kind of cover that?

803
01:14:53,440 --> 01:15:01,600
» Yes. So it does in in a bit of a an
roundabout way. And let me let me

804
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:06,239
address that. What we're looking at is
severalfold. One is are the uses for

805
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:10,480
legitimate law enforcement purposes. So
we'll be looking line item at the

806
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:14,000
searches that are being done to
determine whether those have a direct

807
01:15:12,239 --> 01:15:18,480
nexus to a legitimate law enforcement
purpose.

808
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:22,640
The other piece is retention. Uh and so
retention windows would come into play

809
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:26,640
when we're speaking about this kind of
pattern of life. Is that the term

810
01:15:25,440 --> 01:15:31,600
pattern of life? Yeah.
>> Yeah. Um that you know we're trying to

811
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:36,480
sort of reconstruct a person's history.
If the retention window is limited to 30

812
01:15:34,719 --> 01:15:40,719
days or even the vendor is now
suggesting a 7-day limit on the window

813
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:46,400
of retention of data. uh we'd be looking
at how that retention policy impacts the

814
01:15:44,800 --> 01:15:51,440
ability to look at data sort of
historically over time to be able to

815
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:55,520
reconstruct someone's patterns. Um what
we're seeing in the audits that we have

816
01:15:53,600 --> 01:16:00,000
conducted and in some national studies
that have come out is that the

817
01:15:57,679 --> 01:16:05,120
predominant use of the system is for
one-time cases, investigative purposes

818
01:16:02,239 --> 01:16:11,600
with a legitimate law enforcement basis.
So there are very few uses that um we

819
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:15,840
have been able to document and record
where they're looking at a pattern of

820
01:16:13,679 --> 01:16:21,120
someone over time or doing what we might
call a broad sweep. And so we'll be

821
01:16:18,239 --> 01:16:26,239
looking at that as well. So are the
cases and the uses of the data for

822
01:16:23,199 --> 01:16:30,880
particular one-time investigative use or
are they looking more for a broader

823
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:34,640
sweep or a pattern um over time and
we'll be be able to identify that as

824
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:39,280
well in the course of the audit. So
hopefully that answers it's sort of

825
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:44,400
three parts to answer one question.
>> Yeah, that that's helpful. And I think a

826
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:50,159
common theme here is it seems like both
from the audit but also the limitations

827
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:55,840
of the audit is we can to some degree
control our own policies and what our

828
01:16:52,719 --> 01:17:02,239
own law enforcement can can access.
harder to control downstream

829
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:06,560
bad actors. And maybe that is we're
giving that information to an agency

830
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:12,320
that is authorized to use it, but then
we can't control who is authorized or

831
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:17,440
who has access to their in to their data
when their data is gathered from our

832
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:22,640
data. And we don't have any control over
their their firewall, their internal

833
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:28,000
systems. And so I guess even if we had a
7day

834
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:35,199
window there, could that information be
kind of seized within that limited

835
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:42,880
window from others to then construct
this pattern of life of of individuals

836
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:46,880
um and then retained essentially
forever. Is is that something that we

837
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:49,920
can I mean do you know that answer now
or is that something that could be

838
01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:53,280
understood? It's something that we could
take a look at certainly, but it would

839
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:57,760
be within the realm of kind of those
retention periods and understanding um

840
01:17:56,000 --> 01:18:01,679
what this department is willing to do as
well as what thoseus are requesting of

841
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:04,000
other departments and agencies using the
data downstream.

842
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:06,960
» Okay. Yeah. Because there's all Yeah.
There's all these unintended

843
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:12,400
consequences that it's so challenging to
be able to um to make a a decision

844
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:17,199
ultimately like Mr. Janako said,
balancing those is a a real challenge.

845
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:21,760
Yes. Okay. Thank you,
>> Council Member Lou.

846
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:26,000
Thank you. Uh I appreciate all my
colleagues uh detailed questions. They

847
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:28,960
really echo a lot of my concerns. But
just for this round of questions, I want

848
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:33,360
to clarify whether you will actually
look at the raw logs of searches or

849
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:39,120
whether you'll be more focused on the
policies of the city.

850
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:44,239
» So my colleagues didn't say this, but I
love data. I will be looking at the raw

851
01:18:41,199 --> 01:18:49,679
logs. [laughter] Um I will be doing an
assessment of the logs. um Palo Alto is

852
01:18:46,719 --> 01:18:52,880
already uh far and beyond some of its uh
regional partners as well as state

853
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:57,199
partners and that they provide that data
in a redacted manner on their public

854
01:18:54,800 --> 01:19:00,960
transparency site. Uh we through the
nature of our agreement will be able to

855
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:04,239
look at the raw logs
>> and so we'll look at the raw logs of

856
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:09,199
both internal searches and searches from
other cities. That is correct. And will

857
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:12,159
we have any uh ability to judge whether
maybe some of that data was used

858
01:19:10,480 --> 01:19:16,960
inappropriately for stalking or sort of
individual purposes or is that kind of

859
01:19:14,480 --> 01:19:20,400
level of detail
>> uh not possible to reconstruct from the

860
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:23,920
kind of analysis that you're planning on
doing?

861
01:19:21,199 --> 01:19:27,120
» So to be completely transparent about it
what we do is we will be looking at the

862
01:19:25,679 --> 01:19:31,600
raw data. So every search that's
conducted both internally and of

863
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:37,840
PaloAlto's data. What we're looking at
when we do that is if there is what uh

864
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:42,239
within the the search itself, each
search has to have a legitimate a

865
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:46,960
legitimate law enforcement nexus. That
means that when an officer, whether it

866
01:19:44,239 --> 01:19:52,320
be within Peloto or elsewhere, accesses
the data, they have to provide a case

867
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:57,360
number and they have to provide a code
for the type of crime that they are

868
01:19:53,920 --> 01:20:01,199
investigating. Now, could there be a bad
apple somewhere that is making up case

869
01:19:59,440 --> 01:20:06,719
numbers and inputting them into the
system because he or she is a bad actor?

870
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:11,920
That is a use case that could possibly
happen in the world. Um, we wouldn't be

871
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:16,880
able to tell about that. Um, what we can
do and what the audits can do is take a

872
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:21,440
look at whether the case numbers are
actual legitimate case numbers. That's

873
01:20:19,199 --> 01:20:25,600
something that the department will do
internally uh through its own audits and

874
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:28,719
we can check and verify that as well.
>> Okay. It seems like you do have some

875
01:20:27,199 --> 01:20:33,040
ability to actually sanity check though
that you aren't using a case number from

876
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:37,520
years ago or using case number that
>> doesn't need to have a vehicle involved.

877
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:41,679
Do you actually uh
so I heard sort of a no answer that you

878
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:46,400
wouldn't necessarily be able to judge
the appropriateness of searches but at

879
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:49,520
least you'll be able to detect and spot
check some sample in

880
01:20:48,719 --> 01:20:53,280
» correct
>> okay I think that correct because keep

881
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:56,640
in mind we're talking and I'm not trying
to to limit the scope at all but we're

882
01:20:54,960 --> 01:21:02,159
talking about millions and millions of
of searches and it would almost be um

883
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:06,159
» we would have to use some kind of tool
that that we don't have at our disposal.

884
01:21:04,159 --> 01:21:10,800
as this group um to be able to assess
that on that global scale.

885
01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:15,199
» Yes, certainly. I think just uh spot
checking could be uh and sort of random

886
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:22,080
spot checking can be useful in building
trust uh among the broader community. So

887
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:27,600
I appreciate that. Thank you.
>> All right. Thank you. And so with that,

888
01:21:24,239 --> 01:21:33,320
let's go to our public comment. And so
Madame Clerk, how many uh speakers do we

889
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:33,320
have as of now?

890
01:21:51,600 --> 01:22:01,040
We have a total of 35 requests to speak
and three of which are um there are

891
01:21:58,639 --> 01:22:04,719
three groups of seven.
Okay, great. Uh, well, we're glad you're

892
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:09,199
all here. We look forward to hearing
you. What we will do is give uh one

893
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:15,040
minute to each individual speaker and
five minutes to each group. And uh the

894
01:22:12,480 --> 01:22:18,639
clerk generally announces who's next and
who's right after that. So, you can be

895
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:24,719
ready to approach the microphone when
it's your turn. All right. So, please go

896
01:22:22,639 --> 01:22:31,760
ahead.
Our first speaker is Carara S. speaking

897
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:31,760
on behalf of a group of seven.

898
01:22:36,719 --> 01:22:44,080
Thank you, Madame Mayor and City
Council. My name is Cara Silver. I'm a

899
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:49,120
20-year PaloAlto resident, a municipal
attorney, and a member of safety over

900
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:54,560
surveillance, a coalition of 14 groups
opposing mass surveillance in the Bay

901
01:22:51,040 --> 01:23:00,080
Area. First, we want to thank PaloAlto
for taking this important step of

902
01:22:56,639 --> 01:23:04,639
conducting a third-party audit. I
remember when a small group of us showed

903
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:11,040
up to the policy and services committee
in March 2026 and requested the

904
01:23:08,239 --> 01:23:16,560
committee to cancel the flock contract.
At that time, most people didn't even

905
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:20,880
know what an ALPR was. Very few
community members showed up to the

906
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:29,960
meeting and most people had never even
heard of flock. Now, can everyone who

907
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:29,960
opposes ALPRs please stand up?

908
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:36,102
Thank you all. You can sit down.
[snorts]

909
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:45,760
Obviously, um, ALPR concerns are
widespread.

910
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:51,520
John Oliver ran an entire HBO episode on
mass surveillance very recently, calling

911
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:56,639
out flocks abuses in particular. The New
York Times recently ran an article

912
01:23:53,679 --> 01:24:03,199
titled, "Flock cameras are dividing US
cities." Here's what to know about them.

913
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:07,360
Police officers in at least 12 states,
including California, have been accused

914
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:12,400
of misusing flock systems to stalk
former partners and the like. The San

915
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:16,880
Francisco Chronicle reported that the
Northern California Regional

916
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:23,920
Intelligence Center, Nick, of which
PaloAlto is a member, allowed federal

917
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:29,600
agencies to conduct 299 searches of San
Francisco's flocked data in violation of

918
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:34,960
California's data sharing laws. And this
was just a couple of months ago. Closer

919
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:40,719
to home, the San Monteo County Grand
Jury just issued an audit calling for

920
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:44,880
stricter ALPR oversight practices. And
PaloAlto Weekly broke a news story and

921
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:49,600
how the city's own data was shared with
federal law enforcement agencies for

922
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:56,000
over a year without the police
department even knowing. Approximately

923
01:24:53,440 --> 01:25:00,400
132 local agencies across the country
have canceled flock contracts, including

924
01:24:58,480 --> 01:25:06,080
our neighbors Stanford University,
Mountain View, City of Santa Cruz, and

925
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:11,120
now most recently, Redwood City. 40 of
those cons cancellations were in August

926
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:15,520
of this year. Even the Los Angeles
Police Department recently canceled

927
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:19,440
their flock contract, citing privacy
concerns.

928
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:23,920
While concerns about flock cameras are
increasing, so are concerns about

929
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:28,320
overreaching authoritarian federal
government. Recent reporting shows the

930
01:25:26,480 --> 01:25:32,880
federal government launched an expansive
surveillance program in Minnesota

931
01:25:30,560 --> 01:25:38,239
against activists, labor unions, and
community groups called Operation Puppet

932
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:42,400
Master in response to statewide ICE
protests.

933
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:48,800
Mass surveillance is in mass
surveillance in the wrong hands is no

934
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:54,639
longer an abstract concern. With this
context in mind, SOS PaloAlto is

935
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:59,920
requesting a more robust audit scope as
detailed in the letter sent to the

936
01:25:56,560 --> 01:26:05,920
council earlier today. In particular, we
would like the audit to include some

937
01:26:02,719 --> 01:26:12,239
updates to the data sharing in section
three. to include is PAPD approving in

938
01:26:10,239 --> 01:26:17,840
advance all search inquiries in
compliance with the internal policy that

939
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:23,600
it has. How does PAPD verify whether the
reason for inquiry and case number is

940
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:29,280
accurate before permitting search? How
does PAPD determine which outside

941
01:26:26,080 --> 01:26:36,880
searches should be withheld under the CP
and how much time is dedicated to this

942
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:41,600
decision of um redaction? Warrants and
subpoenas involving PaloAlto customer

943
01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:45,760
data. What are Flock's procedures for
addressing them? When is Flock allowed

944
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:51,120
to share data for legal purposes and
with whom? How is PaloAlto notified when

945
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:57,679
the sharing happens?
Also some enhancements to section 8

946
01:26:54,239 --> 01:27:02,560
effectiveness and value. Um we were
surprised not to find a discussion of

947
01:27:00,239 --> 01:27:07,600
the number of false positives both
internal and external uses.

948
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:14,719
We would like to know the percentage of
time an officer is is takes to verify

949
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:19,679
ALPR information with cleats before
taking enforcement action. Again, as

950
01:27:17,199 --> 01:27:23,920
required by local policy,
information, including crime statistics

951
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:27,840
and closure rates that helps the
community assess whether the

952
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:32,880
surveillance technology has been
effective at achieving its identified

953
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:38,400
purposes. Comparison of cases closed
before and after implementation and

954
01:27:35,440 --> 01:27:41,120
specific amounts and types of closed
cases attributed to FLO.

955
01:27:40,239 --> 01:27:47,760
» Your time is up.
>> Thank you. Our next speaker is Tim M,

956
01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:51,840
followed by Brian E.
Greetings, council. My name is Tim

957
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:55,920
McKenzie and I'm with the Silicon Valley
chapter of Democratic Socialist of

958
01:27:53,920 --> 01:28:00,159
America and the Safety Over Surve
Surveillance Coalition. I'll start with

959
01:27:57,679 --> 01:28:04,239
two asks. Uh immediately cover the
cameras while the audit is ongoing. It's

960
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:10,400
a good natural experiment to be able to
get some real data and add research into

961
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:15,520
the false positives as part of the scope
of the audit. A truly independent audit

962
01:28:13,199 --> 01:28:19,600
would consider the totality of evidence,
including downsides, rather than trying

963
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:24,080
to find ways to justify mass
surveillance. We already got off to a

964
01:28:22,239 --> 01:28:29,040
rocky start when the initial plan was
derailed by a clear conflict of interest

965
01:28:26,320 --> 01:28:33,520
with the first auditor. It does not bode
well that Mr. Janako representing the

966
01:28:31,440 --> 01:28:37,120
new auditor was reported to say, "We
want to make sure that value isn't

967
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:41,440
overridden by lack of trust in the
misuse of the data." That sounds an

968
01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:46,159
awful lot like conclusions have been
drawn before any factf finding begins.

969
01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:52,000
We know Roseville Police Department
reported a false positive rate greater

970
01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:57,199
than 70% and LAPD had a 1 in3 error
rate. Studiously avoiding anything that

971
01:28:55,040 --> 01:29:02,639
might challenge the perceived value of
these invasive cameras is negligent. But

972
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:07,760
focusing on false positives makes it
seem like there could be a safe way to

973
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:12,080
use this tool, which is elucery. If your
criteria for decision-making is whether

974
01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:19,600
something makes the job of the police
easier, you are by definition building a

975
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:25,600
police state or at the very least the
infrastructure for one. While our

976
01:29:22,159 --> 01:29:31,199
democracy is under attack as we descend
into fascism, is that really the pol

977
01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:36,880
policy decision you want to make? Do you
want to pay a private for-profit company

978
01:29:34,639 --> 01:29:41,600
so they can harvest our data and train
their AI model to sell to the federal

979
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:45,679
government? Will Powo Alto keep giving
up resident and visitor data so Peter

980
01:29:43,679 --> 01:29:51,360
Theo can get a return on investment in
his attempts to destroy our democracy?

981
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:55,600
I ask you to consider how you'd like to
be viewed when history looks back on

982
01:29:53,199 --> 01:30:00,159
this moment. Will you be part of the
decaying institutions that enabled the

983
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:04,960
rise of fascism? Or will you be able to
look with pride on making a decision in

984
01:30:02,719 --> 01:30:08,880
support of the community? If you are
wondering how you would have acted in

985
01:30:06,400 --> 01:30:15,199
1930s Germany, look to what you are
doing now. Your decisions here are the

986
01:30:12,239 --> 01:30:20,000
answer to that question. The police
chief has said automated license plate

987
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:25,600
readers are an invaluable tool, but no
tool is more valuable than the public

988
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:31,199
trust.
Everything in policing is downstream of

989
01:30:28,159 --> 01:30:36,480
that bedrock foundation. Startups move
fast and break things and flock and

990
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:41,520
ALPRs in general have broken the public
trust. Our data was illegally searched

991
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:46,400
tens of thousands of times by outofstate
agencies.

992
01:30:43,112 --> 01:30:51,280
[snorts] What we've seen is that at best
we will capture abuses after the fact.

993
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:57,199
We cannot prevent harms from occurring.
that was just admitted by the auditors

994
01:30:53,679 --> 01:31:05,280
right here. The only safe data is no
data. If you cannot protect it, do not

995
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:10,639
collect it. At the very least, drop to 3
minutes of data retention like the state

996
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:18,560
of New Hampshire. The problem isn't just
one vendor. It is the technology itself.

997
01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:23,760
The very nature of automated license
plate readers means that we are all

998
01:31:22,239 --> 01:31:32,000
constantly
surveiled, constantly under suspicion.

999
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:38,320
How can we be expected to reciprocate
trust that is not extended to us? Trust

1000
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:42,880
is a two-way street, a mutual
relationship.

1001
01:31:40,239 --> 01:31:47,920
How many times do we have to fill these
chambers to tell you that the trust is

1002
01:31:45,120 --> 01:31:53,360
broken? How often do you do you speak to
an empty gallery versus the full gallery

1003
01:31:51,199 --> 01:31:59,520
that is right here?
Please

1004
01:31:54,880 --> 01:32:05,080
stop digging the hole deeper. Start
building bridges to repair

1005
01:32:01,713 --> 01:32:05,080
[clears throat] trust.

1006
01:32:05,199 --> 01:32:11,920
Automated license plate readers violate
our fourth amendment rights and do not

1007
01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:16,320
make us safe. A Texas sheriff said the
tool is not compatible with a free

1008
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:20,880
society when he took down the cameras.
Paloalto sister city of Bloomington,

1009
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:25,199
Indiana canceled their contract. How can
all these red cities and states see the

1010
01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:31,920
light when supposedly progressive
PaloAlto continues down the destructive

1011
01:32:28,320 --> 01:32:37,360
path of issuing public trust? Make the
right decision.

1012
01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:44,880
Cancel the contract, cover the cameras,
and never pursue any other vendors of

1013
01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:49,360
this dangerous technology. Repair public
trust, safety over surveillance. Thank

1014
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:56,360
you.
>> Our next speaker is Brian E, followed

1015
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:56,360
Bri by Brian J.

1016
01:32:57,360 --> 01:33:02,880
» Hello, my name is Brian Eaton. Thank you
for holding this study session. Uh, I

1017
01:33:01,199 --> 01:33:06,639
also wanted to ask is it if it's
possible to have Penn go next because

1018
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:10,719
they are from Bloomington and they
wanted to speak but it's getting late

1019
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:13,840
there. Um, [sighs and gasps] so I've
worked as an engineer in the tech

1020
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:17,600
industry for 25 years. Most of that time
in security, privacy and user safety.

1021
01:33:16,239 --> 01:33:21,280
I'm a member of the safety over
surveillance coalition because of that

1022
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:25,199
experience. Uh, Flock and the federal
government are wildly out of control.

1023
01:33:23,679 --> 01:33:29,760
These cameras are dangerous to
residents. I'm here to request that the

1024
01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:33,199
city cover the Flock cameras. Uh, Flock
and their CEO have a long history of

1025
01:33:31,199 --> 01:33:36,080
lying to the public and their customers.
They claim they've never been hacked,

1026
01:33:34,639 --> 01:33:41,199
but they've left the cameras wide open
to abuse for years. They claim they

1027
01:33:38,239 --> 01:33:45,199
anonymize data, but they don't really.
They claim they maintain audit logs, but

1028
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:51,280
they won't tell the city who really
accessed the data. Flock lies

1029
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:54,880
constantly. It's obvious. In Los Altos,
residents found evidence in the Flock

1030
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:57,679
transparency portal that their cameras
had been searched by the federal

1031
01:33:56,000 --> 01:34:01,600
government. And then when the city
manager confronted Flock, Flock denied

1032
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:04,800
everything. Instead of admitting the
mistake, Flock told the city that that

1033
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:10,880
was just a bug in the transparency
portal. So Flock's willing to lie to

1034
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:14,800
city managers. In Leland, Colorado, they
found that their cameras were being

1035
01:34:12,159 --> 01:34:20,239
abused by ATF and ICE. And the chief of
police confronted Flock. Chief Doran

1036
01:34:17,360 --> 01:34:25,920
wrote later, and I quote, "In July of
2025, after the previous issue with ATF

1037
01:34:23,199 --> 01:34:29,280
accessing Lovelin's Flock data, the LPD
was assured by Flock that federal

1038
01:34:27,440 --> 01:34:33,840
agencies no longer had access to our
license plates readers, which we took at

1039
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:38,400
face value." This statement was also
reiterated by the Flock CEO in a live

1040
01:34:36,239 --> 01:34:43,760
interview with Nine News on July 30th,
2025, where he confirmed Flock had no

1041
01:34:41,679 --> 01:34:47,600
federal contracts.
Guess what? Flock did have federal

1042
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:52,000
contracts and they were providing data
to ICE. So Flock is willing to lie to

1043
01:34:50,159 --> 01:34:56,080
police chiefs.
In Wisconsin, a Flock representative got

1044
01:34:54,480 --> 01:35:00,400
up in front of the city council and said
that Flock didn't create heat maps to

1045
01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:05,199
track individual vehicles. The city
council trusted Flock and they approved

1046
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:08,480
the contract. The very next day, the
chief of police got proof that what

1047
01:35:06,719 --> 01:35:13,600
Flock's reps had said during the council
meeting wasn't true. So Flock is willing

1048
01:35:11,520 --> 01:35:18,800
to lie to city councils. They're willing
to lie to cops. Their CEO is willing to

1049
01:35:16,639 --> 01:35:23,040
go on the evening news and lie directly
to the camera. We would be naive to

1050
01:35:21,199 --> 01:35:28,080
believe anything that Flock tells us
during this audit.

1051
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:32,480
However, Flock is very honest about one
thing. Their contract states clearly

1052
01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:36,000
that they own the cameras, they own the
raw footage, and that they will share it

1053
01:35:34,080 --> 01:35:41,360
with whoever they want, whenever they
want. Flock is run by Trumpup supporting

1054
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:45,760
fascists. They do not care about the
contracts they've signed. They've built

1055
01:35:43,440 --> 01:35:49,600
a nationwide surveillance network. And
now it is being used to hunt down

1056
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:54,000
immigrants, hunt down protesters, and
hunt down anyone that opposes the Trump

1057
01:35:51,199 --> 01:35:58,560
administration. Just last week, news
broke that DHS had infiltrated

1058
01:35:55,840 --> 01:36:02,800
anti-Trump church groups to spy on them.
The Trump administration has access to

1059
01:36:00,480 --> 01:36:08,639
the entire flock network, including the
Palo Alto cameras. The audit isn't going

1060
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:13,360
to slow them down one bit.
I wish the city had more options here,

1061
01:36:11,199 --> 01:36:17,840
but you don't. You can leave the cameras
up and let Trump and his goons use them

1062
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:23,800
to destroy democracy.
Or you can choose to fight back. You can

1063
01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:23,800
cover the cameras.

1064
01:36:24,159 --> 01:36:31,360
Mountain View saw this. They removed the
cameras. Santa Clara County saw this

1065
01:36:29,360 --> 01:36:35,920
choice. They banned city staff from
operating the cameras.

1066
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:39,600
Stanford saw this choice. They covered
the cameras. They had the sheriff

1067
01:36:37,199 --> 01:36:42,960
deputies come and do it. That was nice.
And Palo Alto's sister city,

1068
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:47,040
Bloomington, Indiana, they had this
choice. They canceled their contract.

1069
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:52,400
They got rid of the cameras. So, I am
here pleading with you as your neighbor.

1070
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:56,400
These cameras are dangerous to me. They
are dangerous to my family. They are

1071
01:36:54,000 --> 01:37:04,000
dangerous to everyone in this room.
Please cover the cameras now. Thank you.

1072
01:37:01,440 --> 01:37:08,719
» Our next speaker is Brian J, followed by
Winter D.

1073
01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:12,560
Good evening. My name is Brian Jones. I
worked in Palo Alto for many years and

1074
01:37:10,480 --> 01:37:16,960
I'm a systems engineer uh for about the
last 25 years specializing in hardware

1075
01:37:14,480 --> 01:37:20,960
systems with a strong data component. Uh
the technical reality of data systems is

1076
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:25,199
that if you do not control the server,
you do not control the data. We cannot

1077
01:37:23,440 --> 01:37:29,520
be assured that the audit logs report
all of the access to the data. Backdoor

1078
01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:33,679
access does not necessarily come out in
the logs that were provided by the

1079
01:37:31,040 --> 01:37:38,639
company. Um, so the logs are only as
good as our trust in that provider. No

1080
01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:43,520
city policy can ensure vendor
compliance. Whatever policy rules we

1081
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:47,440
make here don't apply to people in other
states running their company.

1082
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:51,199
Furthermore, data breaches are
inevitable as I'm sure you have

1083
01:37:49,199 --> 01:37:55,199
personally experienced many times
probably in the last month when you get

1084
01:37:52,880 --> 01:38:00,080
those letters in the mail, right? If it
does not happen, um if if that data

1085
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:03,600
breach, even if it doesn't happen,
there's no guarantee that we will even

1086
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:07,360
know that it happened. The only way you
know from those is is that your data has

1087
01:38:06,239 --> 01:38:09,600
been breached is that you get those
letters if it's in Flock's best

1088
01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:11,440
interest.
>> What time is that?

1089
01:38:10,639 --> 01:38:17,239
» Sorry.
>> Our next speaker is Winter D followed by

1090
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:17,239
Will O.

1091
01:38:22,159 --> 01:38:31,199
El Certo made big news last week
when 70 days after its contract ended

1092
01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:36,440
with Flock, it still hadn't removed its
cameras or even shut them down. Flock

1093
01:38:33,440 --> 01:38:36,440
hadn't.

1094
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:45,280
Flock knows more about how to manipulate
its tech than we ever will. Flock's

1095
01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:51,119
behavior and its black box
um certainly will never engender trust

1096
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:56,800
in this community.
Any speculation that flock lowers

1097
01:38:53,600 --> 01:39:01,760
PaloAlto's crime rate is conjecture.
Our crime statistics have been cyclical

1098
01:38:59,119 --> 01:39:08,119
for decades, up and down, up and down in
all crime categories, verifying our very

1099
01:39:04,560 --> 01:39:08,119
low crime rate.

1100
01:39:09,440 --> 01:39:17,840
Not only did flock endanger, it damaged
our city. As a prior at a prior city

1101
01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:21,920
council meeting, our mayor asked the
city attorney if the city can recover

1102
01:39:19,679 --> 01:39:26,320
damages for Flock's 2-year long breach
of contract. I hope this audit is useful

1103
01:39:24,639 --> 01:39:31,040
for that purpose.
>> Our next speaker is Will O followed by

1104
01:39:28,960 --> 01:39:34,159
Annie G.
>> Good evening. My name is Will Oler. I

1105
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:37,600
serve on the Menlo Park housing
commission, but tonight I'm here as a

1106
01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:41,360
private citizen. I'm in Palo Alto
tonight because my therapist works here.

1107
01:39:39,679 --> 01:39:45,119
On my way here tonight, my location was
recorded by multiple block cameras

1108
01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:48,639
across several municipalities.
Um, and that information will be

1109
01:39:46,880 --> 01:39:54,800
available to most police officers in the
state for the next 30 days. Um, it's

1110
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:59,600
invasive, it's creepy, it's unnecessary,
and it didn't used to be this way. It

1111
01:39:56,719 --> 01:40:03,440
shouldn't be this way. Um, if other
municipalities are any indication, the

1112
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:07,520
deeper you look, the more problems you
will find. And so I encourage you to

1113
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:13,280
look deep and then to do the right thing
and to remove the cameras uh remove APRs

1114
01:40:11,360 --> 01:40:17,520
from your policing approach entirely.
Thank you.

1115
01:40:14,880 --> 01:40:20,520
» Our next speaker is Annie G followed by
KBT.

1116
01:40:24,400 --> 01:40:32,560
» Good evening everybody.
Was a constitution written for flock?

1117
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:38,159
I want to ask that question to you
because you're responsible [sighs] for

1118
01:40:35,360 --> 01:40:43,840
making sure our constitution
stays a constitution.

1119
01:40:40,960 --> 01:40:49,920
And if you vote for flock, you are
voting for fascism. Thank you.

1120
01:40:47,199 --> 01:40:53,400
Our next speaker is KBT followed by
Raymond G.

1121
01:40:54,234 --> 01:40:59,440
[sighs]
want you to know that I haven't been

1122
01:40:57,119 --> 01:41:03,360
visiting Powo Alto for any reason in the
last year other than to get you guys on

1123
01:41:01,040 --> 01:41:07,119
board this cancellation boat. Just like
in Mountain View, we're at the loading

1124
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:11,280
dock. It's time to sail away from mass
surveillance, cover the cameras, cancel

1125
01:41:08,800 --> 01:41:16,480
the contract. ALPRs like Flock serve up
a massive catch of data for invisible

1126
01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:19,920
DHS ice searches and to line rich
billionaires pockets. City government

1127
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:24,719
trying to control the surveillance
industry is like Ahab trying to catch

1128
01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:30,000
his white whale Moby Dick. It will never
work. It is untameable and is at great

1129
01:41:27,119 --> 01:41:33,840
peril to us all. Prevent most crime by
taking care of people, not spying on

1130
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:37,440
them. We need freedom over fascism,
community over capitalism, safety over

1131
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:42,360
surveillance. All aboard the
cancellation boat. Cover the cameras.

1132
01:41:42,639 --> 01:41:48,360
» Our next speaker is Raymond G, followed
by Renee R.

1133
01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:55,760
Good evening. My name is Raymond Goens.
I am the founder for the liberation and

1134
01:41:53,520 --> 01:42:00,159
justice working group for Silicon Valley
Democratic Socialists of America. I

1135
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:04,320
agree with all the prior speakers and I
would like to yield my rest of my time

1136
01:42:01,840 --> 01:42:09,800
in a moment of silence for the rights
that will be violated by our citizens by

1137
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:09,800
these cameras.

1138
01:42:40,639 --> 01:42:48,719
I ask that Palo Alto does not I ask that
the council members that does not turn

1139
01:42:46,159 --> 01:42:53,440
Palatoto into demolition man. For those
that are old enough to watch that movie,

1140
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:58,760
you know what I'm talking about.
>> Our next speaker is Renee R, followed by

1141
01:42:55,760 --> 01:42:58,760
Young.

1142
01:43:02,080 --> 01:43:09,360
Hi, my name is Renee Rasheed. I'm here
supporting safety over surveillance. I'm

1143
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:13,440
here urging city council to cover the
flock cameras while the flock audit is

1144
01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:18,960
conducted and to cancel the flock
contract. I commend OIR and council's

1145
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:25,440
audit investigations into policies and
comp compliance. I think you can improve

1146
01:43:22,560 --> 01:43:29,760
policies and do research, add infinitum,
but if you don't enforce any

1147
01:43:27,119 --> 01:43:34,400
repercussions for violations, they are
of no use.

1148
01:43:32,239 --> 01:43:40,320
Flock business model does not generate
enough profit by camera systems alone.

1149
01:43:36,719 --> 01:43:44,480
The value is in the data, our data. It
is time to take action against mass

1150
01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:50,159
surveillance systems and I urge you to
cancel Flock.

1151
01:43:46,560 --> 01:43:53,719
Our next speaker is Young, followed by
Henry E.

1152
01:43:56,560 --> 01:44:02,800
Um, Flock claims that it only tracks
license plates, not people, but it was

1153
01:44:00,960 --> 01:44:07,440
reported that Flock was planning to
incorporate people's data that is being

1154
01:44:05,280 --> 01:44:12,639
bought and sold on the dark web. This is
hacked data. They only backed off of

1155
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:17,920
this plan when the the news was leaked
and that created a public uproar. Flock

1156
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:23,360
is currently the biggest villain in the
ARP ALPR market because they have the

1157
01:44:21,119 --> 01:44:27,760
most cameras out. But don't believe that
other vendors would be better behaved.

1158
01:44:25,520 --> 01:44:32,400
They all run on the same predatory
business model of tracking people's

1159
01:44:30,639 --> 01:44:39,600
movements and eventually all our
activities. Um I urge that uh the

1160
01:44:35,040 --> 01:44:45,199
council look at ig.org. That's the um
website by the Institute of uh justice

1161
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:54,000
uh Institute for Justice. They have a
database of um known

1162
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:59,920
abuses and um errors in um ALR systems.
Um it's uh being updated all the time

1163
01:44:57,119 --> 01:45:01,840
and for your due diligence you should
know

1164
01:45:00,159 --> 01:45:07,400
» your time is up.
>> Our next speaker is Henry E followed by

1165
01:45:03,840 --> 01:45:07,400
Hamilton H.

1166
01:45:08,480 --> 01:45:18,560
» What's covered can be uncovered.
The cameras must be not only removed, we

1167
01:45:15,679 --> 01:45:22,880
must have a contest in the public square
to see who can do the best job with a

1168
01:45:20,639 --> 01:45:27,840
sledgehammer of smashing them to
smitherines.

1169
01:45:25,760 --> 01:45:33,119
We don't need this expensive contract.
We know the answer. We don't need this

1170
01:45:30,480 --> 01:45:37,360
audit. The council has to vote tonight
to remove the cameras and hold the

1171
01:45:35,040 --> 01:45:43,760
contest and give a prize to the person
who does the best job in disintegrating

1172
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:48,880
the cameras. We need improved public
safety. That'll come from neighbors

1173
01:45:46,239 --> 01:45:54,320
keeping an eye on neighbors. This was
the premise of sociologist my colleague

1174
01:45:51,119 --> 01:45:58,960
Jane Jacobs. Neighbors keeping an eye.
Real window the movie showed that. And

1175
01:45:56,480 --> 01:46:05,360
then from top down, the city of Helsinki
in Finland has no pedestrian fatalities

1176
01:46:02,719 --> 01:46:10,719
in the past year. 1.4 million. We've had
several. We must change our way of

1177
01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:12,159
organizing public safety.
>> Your time is up.

1178
01:46:11,600 --> 01:46:17,600
» Thank you.
>> Our next speaker is Hamilton H followed

1179
01:46:14,719 --> 01:46:22,800
by Gabrielle P.
>> I've sent you a letter requesting six

1180
01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:29,119
additions to the audit scope. My biggest
concern is that up to 200,000 searches

1181
01:46:25,440 --> 01:46:33,520
every month of Palo Alto data, 99% of it
from other jurisdictions, and most of

1182
01:46:31,679 --> 01:46:39,360
those searches are not related to the
specific crime. For example, CHP does

1183
01:46:36,480 --> 01:46:43,520
about 40,000 searches. Why does a police
officer have a right to see everywhere

1184
01:46:41,119 --> 01:46:47,760
you've been in the last 30 days when
pulling you over for a speeding ticket?

1185
01:46:45,679 --> 01:46:52,800
Therefore, one of my requests is you
review limiting outside agency searches

1186
01:46:50,239 --> 01:46:57,600
as narrowly as practical to felony sex
crimes and to find crimes of regional

1187
01:46:55,760 --> 01:47:02,639
theft.
With the flock architecture, it's on a

1188
01:47:00,000 --> 01:47:08,639
shared server, which the government can
and clearly wants illegal access to. As

1189
01:47:06,159 --> 01:47:14,400
long as that architecture is in place,
the chance of federal access covertly

1190
01:47:11,600 --> 01:47:19,600
acting is high. That's why I'm also
requesting you evaluate Janentech, which

1191
01:47:17,040 --> 01:47:23,920
Stanford's using, which does not retain
the data server, but on their local

1192
01:47:22,400 --> 01:47:28,960
sheriff servers. Thank you.
>> Our next speaker is Gabrielle P,

1193
01:47:25,679 --> 01:47:34,239
followed by Penn B.
>> Hi, mayor and city council. Um, just to

1194
01:47:31,119 --> 01:47:38,880
share a personal an anecdote. Uh I was
raised in PaloAlto and um went to

1195
01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:42,239
college in the Bay Area and I spent my
childhood

1196
01:47:40,480 --> 01:47:47,760
sleeping in the back of the chambers
when my mom came to the city council to

1197
01:47:45,040 --> 01:47:51,920
advocate for our community. Um so I have
very strong memories of this location.

1198
01:47:50,239 --> 01:47:57,199
Um
so I don't have any facts or figures to

1199
01:47:54,960 --> 01:48:04,400
add to all of the fantastic information
that the other speakers have presented.

1200
01:47:59,920 --> 01:48:11,280
Um, I am strongly opposed to ALPRs in
our community and instead of voicing an

1201
01:48:08,080 --> 01:48:19,040
yet another um opinion that you know I
already have, I would like to share um

1202
01:48:14,639 --> 01:48:26,639
how the book 1984 ends as a an example
of what mass surveillance can do. Um, at

1203
01:48:24,400 --> 01:48:30,880
the end of the story, the protagonist
has been jailed uh due to his efforts to

1204
01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:34,239
resist
>> the author.

1205
01:48:33,119 --> 01:48:35,440
» Go ahead and finish your sentence.
>> Thank you.

1206
01:48:34,880 --> 01:48:41,840
» Sentence
>> to to uh resist the authoritarian

1207
01:48:37,760 --> 01:48:47,280
government and he did not um confess. He
did not give up the names of his

1208
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:54,480
co-conspirators until they presented him
with a cage full of hungry grats, if you

1209
01:48:51,920 --> 01:49:00,000
remember the story. And the way he
escaped his please finish your sentence.

1210
01:48:56,960 --> 01:49:06,320
The way he escaped his fate was to ask
them to do it to her, his most beloved

1211
01:49:03,119 --> 01:49:11,520
person, and to have them kill her. So,
not only did they control his actions,

1212
01:49:09,679 --> 01:49:18,920
but they controlled his mind and his
heart. So, we must stop that. Thank you.

1213
01:49:14,560 --> 01:49:18,920
Our next speaker is Pen B.

1214
01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:28,320
» Hello. Hello, I hope you can hear me.
Hello from Bloomington. Uh, we are a

1215
01:49:26,480 --> 01:49:32,080
small city with deeply Midwestern small
town vibes. Uh, and our mayor stance on

1216
01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:36,239
surveillance tech and her disrespect to
our concerns has just sundered her

1217
01:49:34,159 --> 01:49:39,679
reputation amongst friends and voters
alike. It's a very sad tale and I do not

1218
01:49:38,400 --> 01:49:44,000
believe this has to be the story of
Palto. Your community has come here

1219
01:49:42,080 --> 01:49:48,159
tonight telling you to mans that they
fear for their rights, their safety, and

1220
01:49:45,840 --> 01:49:52,960
their representation in these matters.
Our council has repeatedly admonished

1221
01:49:51,199 --> 01:49:57,280
our trust in them. Our mayor has
immediately repeatedly admonished our

1222
01:49:55,199 --> 01:50:01,119
trust in her has disrespected our
concerns in our time. And this does not

1223
01:49:58,880 --> 01:50:04,400
have to be the story for Palto. It is
crucial that the council goes above and

1224
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:07,040
beyond to show that they are listening,
that they respect the concerns of their

1225
01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:11,600
people, and that they will be going
above and beyond to protect the public

1226
01:50:09,280 --> 01:50:20,920
safety and their interests. It is time
to cover the cameras and take them down.

1227
01:50:13,600 --> 01:50:20,920
Thank you. Our next speaker is Aram F.

1228
01:50:23,360 --> 01:50:30,880
» Those who would give up essential
liberty to purchase a little temporary

1229
01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:35,440
safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety. Ben Franklin. Now let's take a

1230
01:50:33,679 --> 01:50:40,880
look at the fourth amendment. Once we
start to diminish the obligation to do

1231
01:50:38,159 --> 01:50:46,560
to create or establish probable cause
before we violate the Fourth Amendment,

1232
01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:52,239
the the right to be free against illegal
searches and seizures, the it becomes

1233
01:50:49,760 --> 01:50:56,880
that much easier to diminish other
constitutional rights, particularly when

1234
01:50:54,080 --> 01:51:02,320
we have a fascist in the White House
that doesn't follow the rule of law at

1235
01:50:59,840 --> 01:51:06,000
any time. We have an obligation to do
this. And let me tell you, with no

1236
01:51:03,760 --> 01:51:10,560
disrespect to OIR, when you look at all
the contracts, it's a cottage industry

1237
01:51:08,719 --> 01:51:14,800
for them to do audits. They're going to
come back and say, "We can do this just

1238
01:51:12,719 --> 01:51:18,480
fine with appropriate guidelines."
That's what they're going to tell you.

1239
01:51:16,159 --> 01:51:23,199
No audit. Don't waste your money. No
cameras. Smash them like Henry E said.

1240
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:28,159
Let's have a parade in the park smashing
those bad boys now.

1241
01:51:26,719 --> 01:51:31,679
» And that concludes public comment on
study session item two.

1242
01:51:30,239 --> 01:51:35,520
» All right. Well, thank you, Madam Clerk,
for managing all of that and thanks to

1243
01:51:33,360 --> 01:51:39,599
all of you for your comments. Uh we
certainly do appreciate your your time

1244
01:51:37,360 --> 01:51:45,520
and and thought sharing. Um I'll bring
it back to the deas uh for additional

1245
01:51:42,320 --> 01:51:50,199
comments, questions, any direction to uh
staff and the auditors on the scope.

1246
01:51:52,800 --> 01:52:01,520
» Council member Bert,
>> thank you. Uh first, um when do you

1247
01:51:57,599 --> 01:52:05,480
anticipate your uh review to be complete
and reported to the council?

1248
01:52:05,760 --> 01:52:12,880
» Uh the goal, uh Council Member Bert, is
to finish it within 90 days of the

1249
01:52:10,320 --> 01:52:18,000
assignment, assuming all goes well.
>> Thank you. And

1250
01:52:15,440 --> 01:52:23,199
we received written comments uh from
both a whole bunch of public speakers.

1251
01:52:21,280 --> 01:52:30,000
Uh
several were uh very concrete um and

1252
01:52:27,119 --> 01:52:36,320
some overlapping a series from SOS. I
don't know if you were able to review

1253
01:52:31,599 --> 01:52:44,960
those. Um others from uh Mr. Hitchings
um and uh we don't have the opportunity

1254
01:52:41,040 --> 01:52:52,400
tonight to go through each of those and
really square them with the scope of

1255
01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:57,920
work. Uh but I am interested in
really the need to do that. I'm not I'm

1256
01:52:54,800 --> 01:53:02,719
not clear in my own mind how those two
things uh line up between your detailed

1257
01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:07,440
scope that you already have and some of
these other points including the false

1258
01:53:05,599 --> 01:53:11,920
positive rates. Is that part of your
current scope?

1259
01:53:09,679 --> 01:53:17,119
Uh certainly it can and will be
incorporated. Um, Council Member Bert,

1260
01:53:14,400 --> 01:53:23,679
we have been advantaged by receiving
information directly from advocates. Um,

1261
01:53:20,320 --> 01:53:28,560
and uh, the initial questions that we
uh, put put to you all were informed by

1262
01:53:26,239 --> 01:53:33,920
that feedback. But we have additional
feedback this evening which will also

1263
01:53:30,639 --> 01:53:39,840
digest and potentially reform our scope.
And this issue of being able to um

1264
01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:48,239
narrow outside agency searches to higher
level crimes or conversely um uh

1265
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:55,679
prohibit um searches after traffic stops
and low-level uh crimes or infractions.

1266
01:53:52,080 --> 01:54:02,639
Is that something that um one do you
already know whether that is uh an

1267
01:53:59,119 --> 01:54:07,440
option for us to uh adopt? uh council
member Bird I believe that is uh an

1268
01:54:05,040 --> 01:54:12,080
approach that uh other jurisdictions are
currently considering.

1269
01:54:09,679 --> 01:54:16,880
So that goes to a question that is not
so much of the audit but of the council.

1270
01:54:14,719 --> 01:54:24,560
Um
are there interim measures that we would

1271
01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:30,080
like to take before we have received the
uh the independent audit and if so which

1272
01:54:27,679 --> 01:54:33,080
ones?
Council

1273
01:54:38,560 --> 01:54:48,239
member Lou, thank you and uh thank you
both to OIR and to the public for the

1274
01:54:43,520 --> 01:54:54,320
comments. Um I found the written public
comment from SOS and also Hamilton

1275
01:54:50,400 --> 01:54:59,920
Hitchings uh like Council Member Bert um
uh particularly relevant and I think

1276
01:54:57,440 --> 01:55:04,800
worth including most of that scope. I
think uh from reading those comments, it

1277
01:55:02,960 --> 01:55:09,760
seemed like those questions were likely
going to be answered anyways, but I

1278
01:55:06,080 --> 01:55:14,239
think having uh more explicit scope
covering those questions is useful for

1279
01:55:11,199 --> 01:55:20,880
building community trust. Um, a couple
of extensions that I would want to look

1280
01:55:16,800 --> 01:55:26,080
into are uh based on the data we get
about actual safety incidents, whether

1281
01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:32,400
uh what the data would look like if we
had shortened the retention window to 1

1282
01:55:28,320 --> 01:55:37,679
minute or 1 day. Um,
uh to see

1283
01:55:35,199 --> 01:55:42,800
yeah whether we can get 90% of the
safety benefit with one minute retention

1284
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:48,560
for example. uh to the extent that we
find a measurable safety benefit. Um I

1285
01:55:46,880 --> 01:55:53,760
similarly would be interested in
understanding if we uh did something

1286
01:55:51,920 --> 01:56:01,119
like a Stanford approach and had our own
data uh hosted on premises

1287
01:55:57,520 --> 01:56:05,199
and therefore had much more limited or
more deliberate sharing and maybe lost

1288
01:56:03,119 --> 01:56:08,880
access to
data from other agencies and other

1289
01:56:06,639 --> 01:56:14,400
agencies lost data lost access to data
from us. uh whether that would affect

1290
01:56:12,719 --> 01:56:20,000
any of the safety outcomes or case
studies that the uh department puts

1291
01:56:17,440 --> 01:56:24,960
forward. Um
uh

1292
01:56:22,159 --> 01:56:31,040
yes um uh because I am very interested
in Stanford's approach. Uh I think in

1293
01:56:28,800 --> 01:56:36,719
the short term I'd
be uh open to waiting the 90 days to get

1294
01:56:34,400 --> 01:56:43,360
some actual data, but I think shortening
the retention period uh is and

1295
01:56:40,080 --> 01:56:49,040
restricting the crime list is a what I
imagine baseline action that I would

1296
01:56:46,239 --> 01:56:54,000
feel like is basically no regret moving
forward. um while we figure out the

1297
01:56:51,920 --> 01:56:57,639
larger picture about Flock versus other
LPR providers,

1298
01:57:03,119 --> 01:57:12,800
» Vice Mayor Stone,
>> thank you. Um agree, including

1299
01:57:09,520 --> 01:57:18,880
recommendations from SOS, Mr. Hitchings
are all great recommendations in this.

1300
01:57:16,080 --> 01:57:22,880
Um, I would like to review specifically
I want to make sure I review

1301
01:57:19,920 --> 01:57:26,239
specifically addressing immigration in
enforcement. And I know it talks about

1302
01:57:24,560 --> 01:57:30,000
compliance with California law and
essentially California law precludes

1303
01:57:28,159 --> 01:57:35,440
that, but just to make sure that we're
really doing a deeper dive um to make

1304
01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:41,040
sure that searches performed on behalf
of federal immigration authorities um to

1305
01:57:38,960 --> 01:57:46,880
make sure that we're catching potential
sorry potential searches that might be

1306
01:57:43,119 --> 01:57:51,599
done on behalf not just directly because
I know that again is more of the the

1307
01:57:48,880 --> 01:57:56,719
challenge um
to make sure that we're assessing

1308
01:57:53,760 --> 01:58:02,800
whether our safeguards are beyond just
mere merely kind of policy based but

1309
01:58:00,880 --> 01:58:07,440
making sure that the system is actually
configured to be able to prohibit that

1310
01:58:04,719 --> 01:58:12,080
type of access and and sharing because
again I think that's just another theme

1311
01:58:09,440 --> 01:58:20,239
here is there's the policy and then
there's the actual technological

1312
01:58:14,880 --> 01:58:24,800
limitations on what we can um ensure
another area I'd like to see strength ED

1313
01:58:22,639 --> 01:58:29,199
is kind of the the accuracy and the
false positives. Again, I don't I don't

1314
01:58:27,040 --> 01:58:33,599
want to see just technical accuracy
rates of the cameras. I really want to

1315
01:58:31,119 --> 01:58:39,760
understand the consequences of when the
system is is wrong. So, how many of

1316
01:58:36,639 --> 01:58:43,440
these alerts have resulted in in traffic
stops or other police encounters? How

1317
01:58:42,080 --> 01:58:48,800
often was the underlying alert
subsequently determined to be incorrect

1318
01:58:45,920 --> 01:58:53,440
or or stale? And what is the real life
consequences of that? I feel like every

1319
01:58:50,239 --> 01:58:58,880
single day that I turn on the news or
see social media or anything else, there

1320
01:58:55,840 --> 01:59:05,119
are more and more stories of these type
of interactions. And you can you can

1321
01:59:02,480 --> 01:59:10,080
read a report and see data on all these
false positives and and stops, but the

1322
01:59:07,760 --> 01:59:14,000
impact on an individual experiencing
that interaction with law enforcement

1323
01:59:11,599 --> 01:59:19,280
when they've done nothing wrong is in
can be incredibly terrifying and and

1324
01:59:16,320 --> 01:59:25,760
lifealtering in in serious moments. And
so want to really understand that. Um I

1325
01:59:23,679 --> 01:59:30,800
also want to see the audit examine the
surveillance implications of of camera

1326
01:59:28,400 --> 01:59:35,760
placement. I think it kind of goes into
that, but I'd really like to be able to

1327
01:59:32,880 --> 01:59:40,719
see a map of where all these are are
located and an analysis of what those

1328
01:59:38,639 --> 01:59:45,119
cameras allow us to learn about people's
movements. as I talked about, but before

1329
01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:49,920
I I really do think there's a meaningful
difference between cameras positioned

1330
01:59:46,800 --> 01:59:54,320
primarily to identify vehicles entering
or leaving to be able to capture kind of

1331
01:59:51,760 --> 01:59:58,639
the original intent of of all this and
and then those really tracking people's

1332
01:59:57,280 --> 02:00:03,199
movements and being able to kind of
reconstruct that. Um especially when

1333
02:00:01,599 --> 02:00:07,599
we're talking about movement to
sensitive locations such as schools,

1334
02:00:05,440 --> 02:00:11,599
house of warships, medical facilities,
reprotective health providers, political

1335
02:00:09,840 --> 02:00:14,599
demonstrations,
etc.

1336
02:00:14,800 --> 02:00:21,440
I do think we need to strengthen the
effectiveness section to to just better

1337
02:00:19,760 --> 02:00:27,360
understand
outcomes and

1338
02:00:24,080 --> 02:00:31,840
and and again how many how much crime is
this actually solving? never know

1339
02:00:29,760 --> 02:00:38,520
preventing but to be able to really
understand that that

1340
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:38,520
and

1341
02:00:41,599 --> 02:00:48,960
yeah, I think those are the kind of the
areas that I that I'd like to see this

1342
02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:52,560
having a a deeper dive. I guess a a
question. I don't know if this would

1343
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:59,440
then be for city manager or the or the
chief of police as far as just the the

1344
02:00:55,599 --> 02:01:07,520
ease of being able to turn off the
cameras. Um is that a simple switch? Is

1345
02:01:04,000 --> 02:01:12,320
that literally covering the the cameras?
Um since you don't since it's not an

1346
02:01:09,440 --> 02:01:15,599
action item, council cannot formally
direct it this evening, but kind of

1347
02:01:13,920 --> 02:01:19,760
curious what that what that process
would look like.

1348
02:01:17,360 --> 02:01:24,800
Thank you, uh, Vice Mayor. Perhaps this
is a good time to ask our chief of

1349
02:01:21,440 --> 02:01:30,239
police to comment maybe specifically on
that question, but, uh, more broadly on,

1350
02:01:27,280 --> 02:01:34,480
uh, what he's heard at this point.
>> Thank you, Chief Rice Schneider.

1351
02:01:32,719 --> 02:01:39,599
» Thank you. Uh, James Rice, center,
police chief. Uh, good evening, madame

1352
02:01:36,639 --> 02:01:44,320
mayor, Mr. Vice Mayor, and council. U, I
don't know truthfully the answer to

1353
02:01:41,920 --> 02:01:49,760
that, uh, as we've never had to do it
previously. Um, I think that if we made

1354
02:01:47,280 --> 02:01:53,760
that decision, I would assume that we
would want to do it in a proactive way,

1355
02:01:51,920 --> 02:01:57,760
in which case we would probably just
take them down ourselves through public

1356
02:01:55,520 --> 02:02:00,880
works, um, rather than wait for the
vendor, uh, if for no other reason than

1357
02:01:59,440 --> 02:02:04,800
if the vendor said it would take us a
period of time to do it. If the council

1358
02:02:03,040 --> 02:02:08,000
made that decision, I would assume you
would want that to take effect

1359
02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:11,679
immediately. So, we could affect that.
Uh, they're all installed on existing

1360
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:15,840
city infrastructure, so I think we could
accomplish that if that were the

1361
02:02:12,960 --> 02:02:21,760
mission. Um, if I may, to the city
manager's point, I did want to point out

1362
02:02:18,159 --> 02:02:26,800
that uh, as this audit goes forward over
the next 90 days, and frankly going back

1363
02:02:24,400 --> 02:02:30,800
90 days, uh, the department has been
taking efforts to sort of attack

1364
02:02:28,719 --> 02:02:36,639
lowhanging fruit where we could make
improvements that we already had control

1365
02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:40,480
over. So for example uh theus that we
have with the individual agencies with

1366
02:02:38,320 --> 02:02:46,400
whom we share uh we have actually
revised thoseus to be more clear in

1367
02:02:44,080 --> 02:02:52,159
terms of the expectations we have over
our partners. Uh we have incorporated

1368
02:02:49,360 --> 02:02:57,599
specifically a clause that also has them
attesting at the uh executive level that

1369
02:02:55,119 --> 02:03:02,719
their departments have a robust audit
process of their own officer search

1370
02:03:00,080 --> 02:03:06,960
behavior. So, uh, in addition to
complying with California law, that they

1371
02:03:04,880 --> 02:03:11,119
also have an audit process in place
that's comparable to ours. And that was

1372
02:03:09,199 --> 02:03:14,800
directly in response to some feedback we
got from council here. Uh, the other

1373
02:03:13,440 --> 02:03:19,119
thing that we are going to take
advantage of is a feature that the

1374
02:03:16,480 --> 02:03:24,560
auditor mentioned uh that did not exist
until literally 10 days ago, which is

1375
02:03:21,440 --> 02:03:29,199
the ability to limit the types of crimes
for which outside agencies can search

1376
02:03:26,880 --> 02:03:34,000
our data. So, uh, we have a meeting set
this week to go over the full list of

1377
02:03:31,760 --> 02:03:38,239
crimes that presently exist because, as
you may know or may not, when an officer

1378
02:03:36,239 --> 02:03:43,520
conducts a search, there's a drop- down
menu with a finite list of crimes that

1379
02:03:40,960 --> 02:03:48,960
they from which they must choose one as
the basis for the search as well as a

1380
02:03:45,840 --> 02:03:53,599
specific case number. Uh, up to now, we
had no ability to restrict by type of

1381
02:03:51,360 --> 02:03:57,119
case they were searching for. Now, we're
going to take advantage of going in and

1382
02:03:55,679 --> 02:04:01,440
identifying what I would imagine as
low-level crimes and limiting the types

1383
02:03:59,599 --> 02:04:06,639
of cases that would justify a search of
our data. Uh, one last point, while we

1384
02:04:04,400 --> 02:04:11,040
have been thoughtful in identifying
regional partners which with whom we

1385
02:04:08,960 --> 02:04:15,840
felt we had a nexus and crimes in
PaloAlto may have a nexus and so we only

1386
02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:19,440
partner with Northern California law
enforcement, local law enforcement

1387
02:04:17,520 --> 02:04:23,840
agencies. uh we are going to take a
fresh look at that list and see if it's

1388
02:04:21,520 --> 02:04:28,480
it if it's at all expansive or too
expansive for our needs. One last point

1389
02:04:26,320 --> 02:04:32,400
I wanted to make was on the reference to
the Northern California Regional

1390
02:04:30,000 --> 02:04:36,400
Intelligence Center or Nick Rick. It's a
fair observation to say that the city of

1391
02:04:34,080 --> 02:04:41,840
PaloAlto is a member in the sense that
we receive data from Nick Rick, that is

1392
02:04:39,360 --> 02:04:47,040
intelligence bulletins from from Nick
Rick, but we've never had an officer as

1393
02:04:44,400 --> 02:04:52,560
a task force agent at Nick Rick and
we've never had Nick Rick as anou

1394
02:04:49,599 --> 02:04:57,199
agency. Other local law enforcement
agencies in California had had

1395
02:04:55,119 --> 02:05:00,080
partnerships with Nick Rick, but we did
not.

1396
02:04:59,920 --> 02:05:04,400
Can
>> I ask one followup question? I know I'm

1397
02:05:01,520 --> 02:05:09,199
over o over over time. Uh glad to hear
changes in in policy to require more

1398
02:05:07,119 --> 02:05:17,520
more serious crimes for the for the
search. But is that again more a policy

1399
02:05:12,560 --> 02:05:23,360
safeguard or is there is there um actual
kind of technical controls that would

1400
02:05:20,639 --> 02:05:29,360
prohibit an officer in another in
another agency being able to access if

1401
02:05:25,440 --> 02:05:33,840
it is not a serious crime.
So, as would as would be the case really

1402
02:05:31,599 --> 02:05:38,639
with any police database, to be quite
honest with you, if if you have a

1403
02:05:35,760 --> 02:05:43,599
dishonest officer who's going to falsify
a report number and deliberately

1404
02:05:41,199 --> 02:05:49,520
indicate a different call, a different
type of crime, um, then yes, uh, if

1405
02:05:46,400 --> 02:05:54,080
someone could in theory do that, um, we
would have, as was pointed out, a much

1406
02:05:51,520 --> 02:05:59,760
easier way to identify those instances
internally because we have access to the

1407
02:05:56,159 --> 02:06:05,119
the detail. Um but uh the the reality of
it is with externals uh to a certain

1408
02:06:02,320 --> 02:06:08,639
extent there is there is a professional
you know assumption that they're both

1409
02:06:06,719 --> 02:06:13,040
complying with policy but also complying
with California law that would pro

1410
02:06:10,320 --> 02:06:16,800
prohibit the behavior. Well then sorry
one more followup to to that. Are there

1411
02:06:14,960 --> 02:06:22,960
any repercussions that you're aware of
at a state law level that would prohibit

1412
02:06:20,400 --> 02:06:28,480
an officer from making a a false request
in another agency to be able to access

1413
02:06:25,679 --> 02:06:32,960
that data? So at the very least it would
be grounds for descertification under

1414
02:06:30,719 --> 02:06:37,679
SB2 that was enacted a couple of years
ago that allows for uh California peace

1415
02:06:36,000 --> 02:06:42,400
officer standards and training which is
a state regulatory agency over that

1416
02:06:40,000 --> 02:06:46,639
provides licensing or certification
that's required to be a police officer.

1417
02:06:44,560 --> 02:06:49,840
Um that would be a basis for
descertification which would mean they

1418
02:06:48,400 --> 02:06:54,920
would no longer be able to be a police
officer in the state of California.

1419
02:06:51,360 --> 02:06:54,920
Okay. Thank you.

1420
02:06:57,199 --> 02:07:04,119
Can't remember which of you rang in
first. Uh, Council Member Lowing, I

1421
02:07:01,119 --> 02:07:04,119
believe.

1422
02:07:06,159 --> 02:07:12,880
Okay. Thanks. Um, I'm always interested
in getting more data to make a decision

1423
02:07:10,719 --> 02:07:16,960
uh particularly on a on a data issue,
but um I I do have concerns that it

1424
02:07:16,000 --> 02:07:21,280
sound like you weren't going to really
be able to go too far on looking at

1425
02:07:18,320 --> 02:07:25,920
alternative vendors. Is that correct? Or
you are going to be able to

1426
02:07:24,159 --> 02:07:27,920
we can certainly bring forward some of
the alternative vendors that are

1427
02:07:27,280 --> 02:07:32,320
available.
>> Okay. I didn't understand that before.

1428
02:07:29,360 --> 02:07:36,480
That's why I wanted to throw that up. Um
because my my concern is we, you know,

1429
02:07:34,239 --> 02:07:41,119
get into this for 90 days, we learn a
lot of stuff. But that same CEO is

1430
02:07:38,719 --> 02:07:45,520
sitting there at that company. Uh and
there's all kinds of uh handprints,

1431
02:07:43,520 --> 02:07:48,880
footprints, fingerprints all over the
place that the guy is just not

1432
02:07:46,639 --> 02:07:52,719
trustworthy. So, I mean, that's fact.
There was some of this discussion

1433
02:07:49,920 --> 02:07:56,800
tonight. I read articles about that. So,
um, that's part of the process here is

1434
02:07:54,719 --> 02:08:01,920
under under what circumstances, if any,
could we ever actually trust this guy

1435
02:07:58,960 --> 02:08:07,520
while he's still there. So, um, that's a
big barrier for me. Um, a big barrier.

1436
02:08:05,360 --> 02:08:11,040
Uh, I just want to also just kind of
point out that as you're doing your

1437
02:08:09,360 --> 02:08:15,360
comparisons, I mean, you you know this
stuff better than we do, but I know that

1438
02:08:12,639 --> 02:08:20,480
all cities are not created equal. Um,
Pasadena is not exactly the same as Palo

1439
02:08:18,000 --> 02:08:24,719
Alto. Um and Pasadena and Palo Alto are
way different than Stanford. So the

1440
02:08:22,400 --> 02:08:28,239
decision for Stanford to drop it for XYZ
reasons, it's just not relevant to the

1441
02:08:26,719 --> 02:08:33,440
way that our department's going to use
it. We want a broader, you know, across

1442
02:08:30,800 --> 02:08:37,760
the bridge access. Uh I read that they
just wanted like 60 seconds after

1443
02:08:35,920 --> 02:08:41,760
somebody left the jurisdiction of
Stanford campus, they wanted the the

1444
02:08:39,520 --> 02:08:45,679
data to go away. So that's just not the
use case that we're we're using. We're

1445
02:08:43,440 --> 02:08:50,079
we're actually catching people that
stole cars three days ago uh now

1446
02:08:47,920 --> 02:08:53,840
stealing one in Walnut Creek and then we
get reported on that. So that's the kind

1447
02:08:51,760 --> 02:08:57,760
of I mean I'm paraphrasing here chief so
you can improve that statement but

1448
02:08:55,760 --> 02:09:01,040
that's just a different kind of use
case. So we just have to be careful of

1449
02:08:59,360 --> 02:09:07,840
which jurisdictions we're comparing to
is is sort of my only point on that. Um

1450
02:09:05,520 --> 02:09:13,280
so the question becomes do we invest in
this literally money and 90 days uh and

1451
02:09:11,119 --> 02:09:17,679
get back to saying that well we might
want something else but it's not flock

1452
02:09:15,440 --> 02:09:21,199
meaning should we in the interim whoever
brought that up was it council member

1453
02:09:19,040 --> 02:09:24,960
Burke should in the interim we be doing
something else like jumping on new

1454
02:09:22,560 --> 02:09:30,199
vendors right away or do we need this uh
anyway to know what kind of vendors to

1455
02:09:26,880 --> 02:09:30,199
go Go.

1456
02:09:36,480 --> 02:09:43,400
» That's all.
>> Council member Li cuts.

1457
02:09:45,440 --> 02:09:48,840
» Thank you, Mayor.

1458
02:09:48,880 --> 02:09:53,920
I'm going to begin by reiterating that
I'm not concerned with Paloto Police

1459
02:09:52,079 --> 02:09:57,599
Department and I appreciate our
independent auditors. I am concerned

1460
02:09:55,840 --> 02:10:01,360
that Flock, whose leaders are aligned
with the policies of the Trump

1461
02:09:58,960 --> 02:10:06,800
administration, which now has a true
21st century weapon in their

1462
02:10:03,360 --> 02:10:11,760
authoritarian authoritarianism arsenal,
are on the rise, and I feel like the

1463
02:10:09,520 --> 02:10:15,760
dictators of the 20th century would have
given anything for this kind of

1464
02:10:13,360 --> 02:10:19,599
surveillance technology.
According to a KQED piece that ran just

1465
02:10:18,000 --> 02:10:23,199
last week, here are a few examples of
what is happening. Police in Texas

1466
02:10:21,280 --> 02:10:28,239
hunted a woman who traveled out of state
for an abortion. ICE agents asked local

1467
02:10:25,760 --> 02:10:32,239
police in Illinois to track undocumented
families. A police officer in Wisconsin

1468
02:10:30,480 --> 02:10:36,320
used Flock to stalk his ex-girlfriend
and her partner. And right here in

1469
02:10:34,079 --> 02:10:40,800
Oakland, a 62-year-old woman who was
driving to her job at a nursing home was

1470
02:10:38,079 --> 02:10:44,880
pulled over by police, guns drawn. Flock
had connected her plates to a serious

1471
02:10:42,480 --> 02:10:48,880
crime. She didn't know that her plates
had been stolen and replaced with the

1472
02:10:46,639 --> 02:10:53,199
ones associated with the crime. These
scenarios have already happened. And we

1473
02:10:51,440 --> 02:10:56,719
know that black or brown drivers are
disproportionately likely to have an

1474
02:10:54,800 --> 02:11:01,119
adverse outcome when pulled over by law
enforcement. Our very own Riley Cook,

1475
02:10:59,280 --> 02:11:04,639
reporter for the PaloAlto Weekly, who is
in the back of the room, did a records

1476
02:11:03,040 --> 02:11:09,119
request for these search audits that
Flock and the Police Department maintain

1477
02:11:06,639 --> 02:11:12,960
on our data. The records revealed that
police departments from all over the

1478
02:11:10,719 --> 02:11:17,520
country were searching Palo Alto's flock
data without the permission of the city

1479
02:11:15,119 --> 02:11:22,000
or the Palo Alto Police Department. To
quote Miss Cook, they went above and

1480
02:11:19,760 --> 02:11:26,079
beyond existing California law about not
sharing with any outofstate or federal

1481
02:11:23,840 --> 02:11:29,679
agencies. And what my reporting shows is
that Flock was still able to bypass

1482
02:11:27,760 --> 02:11:32,560
those without telling anybody. They
didn't tell the police department. They

1483
02:11:31,119 --> 02:11:36,639
didn't tell city officials. They just
quietly rolled out this nationwide data

1484
02:11:34,880 --> 02:11:41,280
sharing effort which completely went
past Cal local and California

1485
02:11:38,560 --> 02:11:45,840
regulations. I think city officials, she
said, were really confident at first

1486
02:11:43,599 --> 02:11:49,199
that they had enacted these protections,
that they were protecting residents and

1487
02:11:47,520 --> 02:11:52,960
heeding those surveillance concerns, and
yet at the end of the day, the company

1488
02:11:51,199 --> 02:11:57,760
still did what they wanted to do." End
quote. So, for me, this is primarily not

1489
02:11:55,840 --> 02:12:01,599
an audit question, even though audit is
the subject of our study session. For

1490
02:11:59,760 --> 02:12:07,199
me, it is a trust and governance
question. Flock changed the capabilities

1491
02:12:04,719 --> 02:12:11,760
of a surveillance system that PaloAlto
entrusted to it and the city did not

1492
02:12:09,599 --> 02:12:16,880
know it was happening.Uus
are being violated. Misuses of data have

1493
02:12:14,480 --> 02:12:21,280
happened elsewhere. As they say, if you
can't protect it, don't collect it. I do

1494
02:12:19,520 --> 02:12:25,679
not think it's smart to continue
operating that system while we

1495
02:12:23,599 --> 02:12:30,960
simultaneously investigate whether we
can even trust it. The wolf is in the

1496
02:12:28,880 --> 02:12:36,719
hen house and we're wondering if we need
to build a better gate. Therefore, it is

1497
02:12:34,400 --> 02:12:40,880
my hope that we seven will have the
courage to join the growing list of

1498
02:12:38,560 --> 02:12:44,960
municipalities around the nation and
state that are refusing to let this

1499
02:12:42,960 --> 02:12:49,440
authoritarian intrusion into our streets
and into our private lives. A list that,

1500
02:12:47,360 --> 02:12:53,920
as we've heard, includes Mountain View,
Santa Cruz, Elserto, Stanford, Santa

1501
02:12:51,840 --> 02:12:57,280
Clara County, and our sibling city,
Bloomington, Indiana, among so many

1502
02:12:55,599 --> 02:13:02,400
others.
My fear is that a three-month audit is

1503
02:12:59,679 --> 02:13:08,320
three more months of surveillance with
consequences we can guess at but can't

1504
02:13:05,119 --> 02:13:12,560
fully appreciate the effect of. I would
rather direct staff to agendaize the

1505
02:13:10,400 --> 02:13:16,560
termination of the flock contract and in
the interim to council member Bert's

1506
02:13:14,960 --> 02:13:22,719
point about things that might be done in
the interim to take them down or cover

1507
02:13:19,119 --> 02:13:26,040
the flock cameras as we await the longer
term decision.

1508
02:13:27,920 --> 02:13:33,920
Council member Rectal.
>> Yeah,

1509
02:13:31,920 --> 02:13:37,760
as you can guess, we don't have a lot of
faith in flock. They've had a lot of

1510
02:13:35,440 --> 02:13:42,560
missteps and we don't know what they're
doing behind the closed doors and that

1511
02:13:39,199 --> 02:13:46,480
that really bothers us. And so comparing
vendors, I think, is a high priority for

1512
02:13:44,079 --> 02:13:50,800
us. But just not the vendors, but also
the architecture. If you have uh if

1513
02:13:49,440 --> 02:13:54,960
you're just switching to another vendor
that controls the data, then you're just

1514
02:13:52,960 --> 02:13:58,880
maybe in the same boat as opposed to if
you control the server and you control

1515
02:13:56,400 --> 02:14:03,679
the data, that seems to be a much more
robust, but that also adds wrinkles to

1516
02:14:01,440 --> 02:14:08,400
it because now you have to have it. And
so I think we want want you to work with

1517
02:14:06,239 --> 02:14:11,599
it and understand
is this architecture look good on paper

1518
02:14:10,079 --> 02:14:15,119
but it's not implementable at the city
of Palo Alto.

1519
02:14:13,440 --> 02:14:18,880
And the second thing is that we share
our data with our neighboring cities and

1520
02:14:17,040 --> 02:14:22,960
that's very valuable because they catch
crimes that were committed pal ultimate

1521
02:14:20,560 --> 02:14:28,000
they help each other right now they all
do that through flock through that

1522
02:14:24,480 --> 02:14:32,000
interface if we go our own route and go
with Campbell go with Stanford uh we

1523
02:14:30,400 --> 02:14:36,560
won't have that same data sharing and
can we recreate that or are we just now

1524
02:14:34,560 --> 02:14:40,400
on an island by ourselves and that's a
really fundamental trade-off so I would

1525
02:14:38,719 --> 02:14:44,960
want you to work with the police
department understand what are their

1526
02:14:42,239 --> 02:14:49,520
uses for their sharing how do we catch
criminals for other cities and how do

1527
02:14:46,400 --> 02:14:55,199
other cities catch criminals for us and
how can we manage it and uh build it on

1528
02:14:52,159 --> 02:14:58,440
the our IT system. So
thank you

1529
02:15:00,800 --> 02:15:06,400
» council member Leing
thanks. So I'm wondering if we can

1530
02:15:04,800 --> 02:15:09,360
somehow redirect this [clears throat]
audit. It's not an action item for

1531
02:15:08,079 --> 02:15:12,880
tonight. It's only a study session, but
if there's some process that's

1532
02:15:11,280 --> 02:15:18,320
appropriate to redirect the audit to
emphasize uh new vendors uh as the first

1533
02:15:16,480 --> 02:15:23,040
step and give a report out on that
before you press on unless there's

1534
02:15:20,800 --> 02:15:25,840
necessary stuff you need to do. I'm not
going to tell you how to do your job.

1535
02:15:24,239 --> 02:15:30,960
I'm just saying if we can get an early
read on the alternatives.

1536
02:15:29,440 --> 02:15:35,360
» Yeah. And maybe I'll just pick up here
because I haven't chimed in because I

1537
02:15:32,159 --> 02:15:40,320
was going kind of the same direction.
Um, from what I'm hearing, it seems to

1538
02:15:38,560 --> 02:15:44,639
be the sense of the council that we are
unlikely to retain flock. We have not

1539
02:15:42,960 --> 02:15:50,079
made that decision. It's not agendaized
for that decision, but that's clearly

1540
02:15:46,480 --> 02:15:57,679
where it seems to be leaning. Um,
so the question is likely to be whether

1541
02:15:53,679 --> 02:16:02,880
we want to retain any other ALPR and
that, you know, aspects of that will

1542
02:16:00,239 --> 02:16:07,440
factor into whether or not we do that.
So I guess I mentioned that because I

1543
02:16:05,040 --> 02:16:15,360
think the way this audit could be the
most useful for us is to focus on an

1544
02:16:10,560 --> 02:16:21,679
helping us answer that question. Um
the reason um and so be before I go on

1545
02:16:19,360 --> 02:16:26,639
and say more about my thought process, I
do want to ask a question. I think it's

1546
02:16:23,360 --> 02:16:33,439
to the chief. um
if we were to agendaize um uh an a an

1547
02:16:31,440 --> 02:16:39,679
action item on whether or not to cancel
the flock contract within the next 90

1548
02:16:36,479 --> 02:16:43,599
days and if there were if that happened
and if we were then to decide we were

1549
02:16:41,679 --> 02:16:48,160
comfortable enough with another ALPR
reader I don't know whether we will be

1550
02:16:46,589 --> 02:16:52,160
[snorts] is there a problem with having
a break there that makes it harder to

1551
02:16:50,880 --> 02:16:56,880
start up again or is that just
irrelevant we just would start over in

1552
02:16:54,000 --> 02:17:00,240
any that
if I understand your your question

1553
02:16:58,479 --> 02:17:04,960
correctly, Merittz, if we were to take
down the flock cameras today and have

1554
02:17:02,399 --> 02:17:09,439
another vendor up a month from now, is
there a problem with that? I think the

1555
02:17:07,599 --> 02:17:16,080
answer is that there wouldn't
necessarily be a problem other than if

1556
02:17:13,519 --> 02:17:22,800
we if we see the technology is a
valuable crime fighting tool as well as

1557
02:17:18,240 --> 02:17:27,359
a deterrent then the very public uh
proclamation that the cameras are down

1558
02:17:25,120 --> 02:17:33,599
effective immediately without with being
coupled with uh new cameras are being

1559
02:17:30,639 --> 02:17:36,399
placed immediately uh then there's a gap
in that regard.

1560
02:17:34,719 --> 02:17:41,679
» Okay. But that's something we could
discuss uh if it were agendaized. But um

1561
02:17:39,359 --> 02:17:48,160
yeah, in more detail. So, okay. Thank
you. Yeah, I I guess the reason I'm uh

1562
02:17:45,280 --> 02:17:55,200
still remain curious about other vendors
despite grave concerns about the the the

1563
02:17:51,519 --> 02:18:00,160
cameras generally um is just personal
experience. We all can't help bring to

1564
02:17:57,200 --> 02:18:05,599
these decisions and thoughts uh you
know, our own uh lived experience. And

1565
02:18:02,160 --> 02:18:11,120
on my block there were two homes where
children live uh that were broken into.

1566
02:18:08,240 --> 02:18:16,080
And it was a a ser a group that serily
did this in neighborhoods around Palo

1567
02:18:12,880 --> 02:18:23,120
Alto but in other cities. And in one of
those homes the child was there home

1568
02:18:18,639 --> 02:18:30,000
alone facing intruders. um they were
ultimately uh apprehended through use of

1569
02:18:26,080 --> 02:18:34,719
ALPR and so who knows how many other
children were spared that traumatic

1570
02:18:32,319 --> 02:18:41,200
experience and potentially you know
worse than just uh trauma. So but maybe

1571
02:18:39,359 --> 02:18:46,080
we could do it other ways. Maybe we
could be just as safe or maybe we could

1572
02:18:43,040 --> 02:18:51,200
curtail uh misuse possibilities enough
we're comfortable with this. I I don't

1573
02:18:47,760 --> 02:18:56,399
know. I would like to learn more but um
that I think is is is so it's not about

1574
02:18:53,359 --> 02:19:04,319
the tool so much as um instances like
that. Um

1575
02:18:59,359 --> 02:19:08,080
so I I guess um
it would be interesting. We could do

1576
02:19:05,920 --> 02:19:12,240
almost a a straw poll to see if there
are interest in agendaizing but I think

1577
02:19:10,559 --> 02:19:16,800
the city manager has something to say.
>> Yes, mayor. Thank you. Uh I would be

1578
02:19:14,880 --> 02:19:22,000
remiss if not pointing out to the
council that the scenario that chief uh

1579
02:19:19,439 --> 02:19:27,519
suggested was that we take down the
cameras now and we have a new vendor in

1580
02:19:24,319 --> 02:19:33,200
a month. I think that latter is unlikely
uh and uh to

1581
02:19:30,960 --> 02:19:38,479
perhaps even an order of magnitude in
terms of uh I would expect based on your

1582
02:19:35,920 --> 02:19:45,679
discussion tonight that the conclusions
of OIR's work will be very important for

1583
02:19:41,920 --> 02:19:50,080
defining the product we seek. Uh and
then there is the procurement process

1584
02:19:47,760 --> 02:19:55,680
that would need to follow. So, you know,
we routinely quote 6 months as the time

1585
02:19:52,800 --> 02:20:00,880
frame with which it takes to complete a
public procurement process and uh so we

1586
02:19:58,640 --> 02:20:05,680
would certainly want to prioritize this.
Uh but that should at least be the the

1587
02:20:03,280 --> 02:20:13,000
starting point for setting expectations
on the time it would take to identify a

1588
02:20:09,200 --> 02:20:13,000
successor provider.

1589
02:20:13,600 --> 02:20:20,960
Well, perhaps though uh if there's
interest in agendaizing this item, we

1590
02:20:18,160 --> 02:20:24,800
could at that point decide if uh we
wanted to have it be effective upon

1591
02:20:22,720 --> 02:20:30,720
procurement of a a later one or
immediately or or whatever. Um

1592
02:20:28,720 --> 02:20:35,840
but thank you for spelling out that
timeline. Um,

1593
02:20:33,600 --> 02:20:40,000
I would actually just be interested uh
for colleagues to say how many would be

1594
02:20:37,920 --> 02:20:44,479
interested in agendaizing just the the
consideration of the the the FL contract

1595
02:20:42,640 --> 02:20:47,680
itself.
>> So I guess um I'll let

1596
02:20:46,399 --> 02:20:53,040
» you kind of figured out at the end
>> oh uh just agendaizing uh whether or not

1597
02:20:50,160 --> 02:20:59,439
we would uh agenda the cancellation of
the flock contract itself. I think

1598
02:20:56,240 --> 02:21:04,479
that's where you were going. So I think
I heard from you. Yes.

1599
02:21:01,600 --> 02:21:07,960
Okay, I'm hearing it from that NDS. Then
some other contemplations.

1600
02:21:09,040 --> 02:21:14,720
» I'm sorry.
>> No, I'm saying agendaizing in the

1601
02:21:13,200 --> 02:21:17,680
future.
>> Are you you

1602
02:21:15,600 --> 02:21:23,280
» sorry? At the at the conclusion of the
audit?

1603
02:21:20,160 --> 02:21:28,720
» No, between now and then if there were
time. I mean, our agendas are packed.

1604
02:21:25,040 --> 02:21:31,040
» Yeah. And if we're able to agendaize it
between then.

1605
02:21:29,680 --> 02:21:35,680
» Okay. All right. All right. So, Council
Member Bird.

1606
02:21:32,319 --> 02:21:42,720
» Yeah. Um, so I am in favor of
agendaizing an action item. Uh, I I uh

1607
02:21:40,479 --> 02:21:49,359
really would caution the mayor on
characterizing what the seven of us had

1608
02:21:46,319 --> 02:21:58,479
indicated. I I did not hear the same
consensus that you did. Um and under the

1609
02:21:53,120 --> 02:22:05,680
action item, I would be interested in um
other potential measures we may take

1610
02:22:02,720 --> 02:22:14,640
while we await uh the audit and a final
decision. Those might include uh further

1611
02:22:09,359 --> 02:22:23,040
restrictions on on the um uh offense uh
specific filters and other restrictions.

1612
02:22:17,600 --> 02:22:31,920
It might include a disabling until we um
uh take action on the autumn audit. Um

1613
02:22:26,960 --> 02:22:38,960
or it might be a a full decision. Um,
when we get that action item, I would

1614
02:22:34,720 --> 02:22:45,200
like to at that time have um at least
some preliminary information on

1615
02:22:41,600 --> 02:22:50,399
alternatives so that we aren't starting
that clock 90 days from now, but we

1616
02:22:48,160 --> 02:22:58,319
would uh potentially start it much
sooner. So, I would support an action

1617
02:22:53,600 --> 02:23:05,680
item uh uh but I I would not support uh
a narrow uh pre determination of what

1618
02:23:02,479 --> 02:23:10,160
that might be. Yeah. No, that's fair. I
did overstate it in terms of the

1619
02:23:07,920 --> 02:23:18,160
labeling of it. Um but I think we have
the same in intent in terms of what we

1620
02:23:12,640 --> 02:23:20,880
would want to discuss. Um okay. Um I
think we've given a fair amount of

1621
02:23:19,359 --> 02:23:25,200
direction. City manager, do you need
more?

1622
02:23:22,000 --> 02:23:31,600
» Well, I think the question is really our
ability to meet the

1623
02:23:29,439 --> 02:23:39,200
information expectations that were set
there and in particular both with OIR as

1624
02:23:35,200 --> 02:23:43,520
well as uh the parallel staff work. Uh I
think if if you're prepared to speak to

1625
02:23:42,000 --> 02:23:48,800
that tonight, that would be fine.
Otherwise, I think we have some work to

1626
02:23:45,439 --> 02:23:53,080
do with OAR to identify when we would be
able to bring that information back.

1627
02:23:54,800 --> 02:24:00,240
» I'm just looking at OR to see if they're
able to speak to that tonight. And if

1628
02:23:58,160 --> 02:24:05,760
not we can
uh

1629
02:24:02,960 --> 02:24:10,080
yeah tenatively I think there's a way in
which we could construct the audit where

1630
02:24:07,840 --> 02:24:15,600
some of the issues that you want
addressed sooner rather than later could

1631
02:24:12,080 --> 02:24:19,359
be addressed. So if the question is for
example,

1632
02:24:17,520 --> 02:24:23,840
are there other other vendors there and
what are the pros and cons of trying to

1633
02:24:21,600 --> 02:24:30,080
engage with other vendors? That's a
fairly discreet question that could be

1634
02:24:26,560 --> 02:24:38,000
answered in less than 90 days. Um if it
was, what other steps might the

1635
02:24:33,920 --> 02:24:44,240
department consider to restrict access
use um before an ultimate decision about

1636
02:24:41,920 --> 02:24:51,280
whether or not to eliminate ALPRs
entirely was made one that also could be

1637
02:24:48,080 --> 02:24:57,040
done probably in more like 45 days
instead of 90 days. So, yes, if uh

1638
02:24:54,319 --> 02:25:01,200
council's interest is in carving out
some discrete questions that you think

1639
02:24:59,040 --> 02:25:08,720
are priorities
um and important uh to evaluate

1640
02:25:06,479 --> 02:25:13,520
how you respond sooner rather than
later, we can do that.

1641
02:25:11,120 --> 02:25:17,200
» Okay. Thank you. I think perhaps we can
take this offline after staff

1642
02:25:15,600 --> 02:25:21,280
contemplates it and in the agenda
setting process, but with I believe what

1643
02:25:19,520 --> 02:25:28,000
we're hearing is an interest in having
something before 90 days that would talk

1644
02:25:23,920 --> 02:25:35,760
about um the continuation you about the
status of the flock contract and

1645
02:25:31,280 --> 02:25:41,200
alternatives for action before 90 days
and uh any information that you can pull

1646
02:25:38,960 --> 02:25:44,399
together by then about alternate
vendors.

1647
02:25:42,160 --> 02:25:47,280
Does that capture that's a lot that's a
lot and and we have a very busy agenda

1648
02:25:46,479 --> 02:25:52,160
but I think that's
>> we have a very busy police department as

1649
02:25:49,200 --> 02:25:54,960
well. So I think that uh we will take
that feedback and see what we can come

1650
02:25:54,319 --> 02:26:00,319
up with.
>> Okay. I appreciate that. Chief, did you

1651
02:25:58,560 --> 02:26:04,399
anything you need to comment on that?
>> No, I think I understand. And I I I

1652
02:26:02,240 --> 02:26:09,040
would just add that uh along with the
other work we've been doing in parallel

1653
02:26:06,240 --> 02:26:13,280
as the audit's been sort of in design uh
I have been regularly meeting with my

1654
02:26:10,880 --> 02:26:16,640
colleagues in the region to discuss what
they're doing and I have obviously been

1655
02:26:15,040 --> 02:26:22,640
tracking what's going on elsewhere in
the state. Um I can offer at present

1656
02:26:20,080 --> 02:26:28,000
that uh with the exception of Stanford
who uh and the uh the historical from a

1657
02:26:25,439 --> 02:26:33,680
few months ago example of Mountain View
um in the county there's no one else

1658
02:26:30,960 --> 02:26:40,800
that's in the process of moving away
from flock or actively pursuing another

1659
02:26:36,960 --> 02:26:45,920
uh another option. Um so we don't have
any obvious partners other than perhaps

1660
02:26:43,760 --> 02:26:49,359
Mountain View. uh if we were interested
in collaborating with someone in the

1661
02:26:48,000 --> 02:26:52,319
county.
>> Okay. All right. Thank you, Council

1662
02:26:51,120 --> 02:26:55,040
Member Lithcot. HS.
>> Thank you. Just wanted to clarify one

1663
02:26:53,760 --> 02:27:00,399
additional thing as we were putting
together the list of requests for what

1664
02:26:57,520 --> 02:27:03,680
we'd like to see brought back with
regard to this question of a

1665
02:27:02,000 --> 02:27:08,560
discontinuation.
Um as we analyze whether that is

1666
02:27:06,160 --> 02:27:12,720
attractive to us, it would be helpful to
know there's turning it off. As we've

1667
02:27:10,479 --> 02:27:16,399
heard, there's also covering it. These
are things we hear out in the news that

1668
02:27:14,479 --> 02:27:21,359
other cities have done and it would be
helpful to understand what does that

1669
02:27:18,479 --> 02:27:25,200
cost, how quick is it, you know, do we
have the materials to cover them or is

1670
02:27:23,200 --> 02:27:29,280
that a procurement process and that's
going to take months. Um so the details

1671
02:27:27,359 --> 02:27:36,120
on that which will help us understand
how quickly that could be uh affected

1672
02:27:32,000 --> 02:27:36,120
would be helpful. Thank [snorts] you.

1673
02:27:37,280 --> 02:27:45,920
» Thank you. Uh I see no further lights.
So I think we've talked this over uh

1674
02:27:43,359 --> 02:27:51,600
sufficiently tonight. Uh want to thank
uh the uh OIR. Thanks the chief and

1675
02:27:49,359 --> 02:27:58,640
staff and thanks to the public for uh
helping us uh noodle through this one.

1676
02:27:54,319 --> 02:28:04,319
Okay. So with that we will move on
to our consent calendar.

1677
02:28:02,399 --> 02:28:09,280
So Madame Clerk, do we have any public
comment on the consent calendar?

1678
02:28:07,439 --> 02:28:13,692
And I'll ask you if you would kindly
keep your voices down as you so we can

1679
02:28:11,200 --> 02:28:15,712
move on.
[laughter]

1680
02:28:15,920 --> 02:28:23,240
» I know that's all right. I think she's
still she's still sorting. So

1681
02:28:24,720 --> 02:28:27,720
um

1682
02:28:31,200 --> 02:28:38,720
» yes, it looks like we have uh two
requests to speak on consent calendar

1683
02:28:35,520 --> 02:28:44,080
items. Okay, give it just a minute. All
right. Thank you. You have been a lovely

1684
02:28:40,720 --> 02:28:48,880
and orderly uh audience, but we're going
to need you to uh

1685
02:28:46,960 --> 02:28:52,359
what are you trying to get?
>> Yeah, that's true.

1686
02:28:54,560 --> 02:28:58,200
I can use the G.

1687
02:29:04,399 --> 02:29:10,077
Turn up my Are you turning up my volume?
[laughter]

1688
02:29:13,439 --> 02:29:21,840
How are we doing? Okay. All right.
Thank you all for coming tonight. We

1689
02:29:20,800 --> 02:29:24,800
need to move on. So, I'm just going to
ask for a little silence in the

1690
02:29:23,040 --> 02:29:29,840
chambers. Thank you. We want to hear our
our next public commenters. All right,

1691
02:29:27,200 --> 02:29:34,399
madame clerk. Do we have any public com
you have we have two? I think you said

1692
02:29:32,800 --> 02:29:39,560
» yes, we have two requests to speak. Our
first speaker is city council s.

1693
02:29:39,680 --> 02:29:43,000
» Thank you.

1694
02:29:47,920 --> 02:29:53,960
City Council S, you should be able to
unmute yourself and speak.

1695
02:29:58,800 --> 02:30:05,240
Moving to our new next speaker, Aram F.

1696
02:30:07,359 --> 02:30:13,280
Okay.
I want to speak on item number I want to

1697
02:30:10,880 --> 02:30:18,880
speak on item number eight again. I'm
not comfortable with Ed Shicata.

1698
02:30:17,120 --> 02:30:22,640
Um, and I'm not going to call him the
drunken sailor tonight like I did last

1699
02:30:20,640 --> 02:30:30,240
time on this item. That was
disrespectful. Um, but listen, why how

1700
02:30:27,040 --> 02:30:36,080
can we why can't the finance committee
audit Chicago? Why does are we raising

1701
02:30:33,280 --> 02:30:41,840
the limit on contracts that he can
approve when we've had all of these

1702
02:30:39,680 --> 02:30:44,960
consulting fees and he acted like the b
the buck doesn't stop with him. Like, I

1703
02:30:43,520 --> 02:30:48,720
don't know how that happened. Well, you
damn well should have. You should have

1704
02:30:46,800 --> 02:30:53,680
been paying attention to those millions
of dollars worth of of consulting fees.

1705
02:30:50,960 --> 02:31:00,479
Now you all want to charge uh the RV
folks $15 a month to re reup each month

1706
02:30:58,479 --> 02:31:05,359
when Chicago's throwing away tons and
tons of money on useless consulting

1707
02:31:03,680 --> 02:31:09,200
fees.
You are the elected people in the city

1708
02:31:07,359 --> 02:31:13,920
of PaloAlto that are responsible for
keeping an eye on our budget. Not

1709
02:31:11,040 --> 02:31:18,640
Educata. He's not an elected official.
Okay. The man has way too much power. He

1710
02:31:16,800 --> 02:31:21,520
wasn't listening tonight up to the flock
folks. He was like saying, "Oh, you

1711
02:31:20,319 --> 02:31:26,960
know, we're gonna we're gonna have to
check. He wants flock." Okay? He wasn't

1712
02:31:24,960 --> 02:31:32,640
paying attention to you or the the
people of PaloAlto.

1713
02:31:29,040 --> 02:31:37,040
How can you unilaterally give this man
the trust to continue to approve

1714
02:31:35,280 --> 02:31:41,520
millions and millions and millions of
dollars and up the cap on that? It's

1715
02:31:39,120 --> 02:31:46,640
irresponsible.
Let your at least let your finance

1716
02:31:43,439 --> 02:31:53,520
committee let you know those folks audit
Educata. We got to reign that man in. I

1717
02:31:50,080 --> 02:31:58,000
mean, come on. Please think about it at
this point. We don't have an endless

1718
02:31:56,080 --> 02:32:02,479
amount of money. We're more than a half
a billion dollars in the hold of PERS.

1719
02:32:00,640 --> 02:32:07,120
Okay? We don't have a balanced budget.
That's a joke. You just put aside the,

1720
02:32:05,120 --> 02:32:12,479
you know, the the PERS debt. That's all
I've got to say tonight. But reign

1721
02:32:09,280 --> 02:32:17,040
Chicago in, okay? Don't Don't let him
just make the decisions for you. You're

1722
02:32:14,080 --> 02:32:23,800
the elected officials. We elected you to
oversee our budget. It's critical,

1723
02:32:19,920 --> 02:32:23,800
folks. Thank you.

1724
02:32:24,640 --> 02:32:29,479
» Our next speaker is Lynn C.

1725
02:32:37,200 --> 02:32:42,200
Lind C, you should be able to unmute
yourself and speak.

1726
02:32:45,040 --> 02:32:53,120
» That concludes public comment on consent
calendar items 3 through 4 and 6 through

1727
02:32:50,880 --> 02:32:57,520
8 as agenda item five was removed off of
the agenda.

1728
02:32:55,040 --> 02:33:02,479
» All right. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Um
colleagues, do you have any no votes or

1729
02:32:59,680 --> 02:33:06,720
requests to pull or recusals? And if
not, may I have a motion to approve?

1730
02:33:05,359 --> 02:33:09,680
» So moved.
>> Second.

1731
02:33:07,600 --> 02:33:14,600
» Right. Thanks very much. I don't see any
other lights on. So madam clerk, please

1732
02:33:11,280 --> 02:33:14,600
call the role.

1733
02:33:15,040 --> 02:33:21,920
» Just confirming that was council member
Lou and council member Rectal.

1734
02:33:18,160 --> 02:33:24,479
» Yes. Thank you.
>> Council member Liths.

1735
02:33:24,080 --> 02:33:27,120
» Yes.
>> Council member Rectal.

1736
02:33:25,600 --> 02:33:28,720
» Yes. Council member Lowing,
>> yes.

1737
02:33:27,439 --> 02:33:30,160
» Council member Bert,
>> yes.

1738
02:33:29,280 --> 02:33:31,840
» Mayor Vinker,
>> yes. Council member Lou,

1739
02:33:31,520 --> 02:33:33,040
» yes.
>> Vice Stone,

1740
02:33:32,720 --> 02:33:36,240
» yes.
>> Motion carries unanimously.

1741
02:33:34,560 --> 02:33:39,120
» All right. Thank you very much. And with
that, we will move on to city manager

1742
02:33:38,319 --> 02:33:42,800
comments.
>> Thank you, mayor, members of the

1743
02:33:40,479 --> 02:33:46,840
council. Uh, let me ask city clerk for
some assistance with a few slides.

1744
02:33:51,680 --> 02:33:55,720
Thank you. Next slide, please.

1745
02:33:59,680 --> 02:34:06,800
Just a few items we wanted to highlight
for community awareness. Uh first off

1746
02:34:04,399 --> 02:34:12,000
that our police uh public safety
building is uh operational. In

1747
02:34:09,200 --> 02:34:16,800
particular at this uh date that uh
should members of the public need public

1748
02:34:14,080 --> 02:34:22,560
counter support including obtaining uh
police records uh or reports uh that uh

1749
02:34:20,399 --> 02:34:30,319
they can now visit the public safety
building at Forest uh Avenue location.

1750
02:34:26,479 --> 02:34:36,240
In addition, uh as of uh this week, uh
the police patrol division where our uh

1751
02:34:34,160 --> 02:34:42,160
patrol officers will be rolling out of
on a daily basis uh will also be from

1752
02:34:39,040 --> 02:34:45,760
that building and uh so community
members will see additional police

1753
02:34:43,600 --> 02:34:50,560
activity in the Cal area. So nothing to
be alarmed about. Uh this is their new

1754
02:34:47,920 --> 02:34:56,399
home and I'm sure they will be welcomed.
Uh do want to note that on September 2nd

1755
02:34:53,680 --> 02:35:01,840
uh we will have uh the department's of
police and fire honor guards uh raising

1756
02:34:59,040 --> 02:35:07,840
a ceremonial flag just to mark uh the
fully operational uh date of uh the uh

1757
02:35:05,520 --> 02:35:14,319
building uh and community members are
invited. Also note that our dispatch uh

1758
02:35:10,800 --> 02:35:22,680
center uh transition and cut over uh is
ongoing and will occur uh late

1759
02:35:17,120 --> 02:35:22,680
September. Next slide please. Also

1760
02:35:23,040 --> 02:35:31,280
want to flag for community awareness. Uh
we've spoken a lot here of the city's

1761
02:35:28,640 --> 02:35:35,920
partnership with the Jed Foundation uh a
nationally recognized uh organization on

1762
02:35:33,760 --> 02:35:42,319
suicide prevention in particular related
to the youth and uh that the Jed have uh

1763
02:35:39,040 --> 02:35:48,040
put out a uh initial findings uh report
that is now posted on the city's website

1764
02:35:44,720 --> 02:35:48,040
at pelala.gov/jed.

1765
02:35:48,080 --> 02:35:55,760
Uh in addition the uh uh report itself
and next steps will be discussed with

1766
02:35:53,040 --> 02:36:00,720
the city's school liaison committee on
September 1st. That is a new date. We

1767
02:35:57,840 --> 02:36:05,040
had previously been carrying uh a date
the week before uh for that meeting. Uh

1768
02:36:03,439 --> 02:36:09,359
so do want to note for anyone tracking
that uh topic that September 1st is the

1769
02:36:07,600 --> 02:36:16,479
date for the city school leaison
committee meeting. Next slide please.

1770
02:36:13,439 --> 02:36:23,920
Also uh coming up uh really in advance
of your next uh uh council meeting is

1771
02:36:20,160 --> 02:36:29,680
the uh C training that's occurring
starting on September 1st. This is our

1772
02:36:26,800 --> 02:36:35,600
annual plug for community members to get
involved with uh uh looking out for

1773
02:36:33,920 --> 02:36:40,640
neighbors and being involved with our
city emergency preparedness activities

1774
02:36:38,080 --> 02:36:46,240
through community emergency response
team training. Uh you are able to sign

1775
02:36:43,600 --> 02:36:49,240
up uh for this training at our website
pelaltto.gov.

1776
02:36:49,439 --> 02:37:01,040
Uh it's noted here a three-week training
and a variety of uh skills and uh uh

1777
02:36:57,120 --> 02:37:06,000
connections uh to participate in uh
really safeguarding and responding in

1778
02:37:03,120 --> 02:37:10,880
the event of a major emergency. And also
note that certain members who have pre

1779
02:37:08,000 --> 02:37:15,920
previously been trained uh are invited
to participate in this as well. Next

1780
02:37:13,120 --> 02:37:20,399
slide, please.
Then also a plug for other ways to get

1781
02:37:18,399 --> 02:37:25,200
involved with the city. In this case,
it's to serve on one of our boards,

1782
02:37:22,560 --> 02:37:30,080
commissions, and committees that uh we
have a recruitment ongoing with

1783
02:37:27,439 --> 02:37:33,840
application deadline of September 2nd
open on our human relations commission,

1784
02:37:32,160 --> 02:37:37,760
parks and recreation commission,
planning and transportation commission,

1785
02:37:35,760 --> 02:37:43,120
public art commission, and the storm
water oversight management committee.

1786
02:37:40,560 --> 02:37:47,640
Again, uh information on this available
at the city's website,

1787
02:37:44,640 --> 02:37:47,640
palto.gov/bccrecruits.

1788
02:37:48,560 --> 02:37:57,800
I'm sure our city clerk also would love
to uh respond to any questions about

1789
02:37:53,120 --> 02:37:57,800
this recruitment. Next slide, please.

1790
02:37:57,920 --> 02:38:05,280
Then also upcoming uh we do have a city
council meeting on September 9th, but

1791
02:38:03,520 --> 02:38:10,800
given that this is just the following
day on Thursday, September 10th, there

1792
02:38:08,160 --> 02:38:18,880
will be a ribbon cutting along with uh
tours of the horizontal levy project. Uh

1793
02:38:14,960 --> 02:38:23,520
the uh uh community is more than welcome
to participate in this. This is

1794
02:38:20,560 --> 02:38:29,280
Thursday, September 10th at 11:00 a.m.
location at the end of Embaradero Road,

1795
02:38:25,840 --> 02:38:35,949
2470 Embaradero Road, uh including both
the ribbon cutting and community uh

1796
02:38:31,439 --> 02:38:39,439
walk. And next slide, please.
[clears throat]

1797
02:38:37,120 --> 02:38:44,800
Then finally, want to review uh your
upcoming agendas. Your next meeting is

1798
02:38:41,920 --> 02:38:50,319
on September 9th. uh recognizing uh the
Labor Day uh holiday on September 7th.

1799
02:38:48,399 --> 02:38:54,160
Again, this is Wednesday, September 9th.
It is an early start because you have

1800
02:38:52,720 --> 02:38:59,760
scheduled a two-hour performance
evaluations close session. Uh then we

1801
02:38:57,040 --> 02:39:06,080
have uh a number of action items on that
agenda. 470 Olive League of California

1802
02:39:02,880 --> 02:39:10,399
Cities delegate de designation and an
anticipated colleagues memo would note

1803
02:39:08,399 --> 02:39:14,160
that we had previously been showing the
study session on consultant management

1804
02:39:12,240 --> 02:39:21,200
on that date but recognizing that's a
heavy agenda we've moved that to October

1805
02:39:17,040 --> 02:39:27,760
5th. Uh also note that the following
agendas on September 14th, you've got

1806
02:39:23,840 --> 02:39:32,560
the uh proposed parking structure at 375
Hamilton Avenue, water revenue bonds, uh

1807
02:39:30,800 --> 02:39:36,720
which will be your light reading for
that agenda as it is the official

1808
02:39:34,960 --> 02:39:43,200
statement for the issuance of uh
financing and then a stream corridor uh

1809
02:39:40,080 --> 02:39:49,040
protection ordinance uh changes.
September 28th, a pre-screening for

1810
02:39:45,760 --> 02:39:54,880
proposed development at 706 Kalper uh
Street and then uh the grade separation

1811
02:39:52,720 --> 02:40:01,280
direction related to alternatives that
will advance to the next phase of design

1812
02:39:57,760 --> 02:40:06,240
work. And then noted here upcoming uh
agenda items on October 5th and beyond.

1813
02:40:03,840 --> 02:40:10,560
I would flag that you have uh the work
plans for the architectural review

1814
02:40:08,560 --> 02:40:14,560
board, historic resources board,
planning transportation commission, and

1815
02:40:12,240 --> 02:40:20,560
utility advisory commission also
scheduled in this October window. With

1816
02:40:17,280 --> 02:40:26,000
that, mayor, back to you.
>> All right. And with that, uh we will

1817
02:40:22,479 --> 02:40:29,840
» Can I add one thing? Uh, one thing that
wasn't mentioned was the grade

1818
02:40:27,439 --> 02:40:35,600
separation outreach meetings tomorrow
night and Wednesday night uh at Mitchell

1819
02:40:33,040 --> 02:40:39,760
Park Community Center 6:00 to 8:00 p.m.
both nights.

1820
02:40:37,760 --> 02:40:44,960
» Thank you. Previously covered uh so
appreciate the reminder.

1821
02:40:43,120 --> 02:40:52,120
» All right. Well, thank you. And with
that, we will uh recess uh into our

1822
02:40:47,760 --> 02:40:52,120
break and be back in 15 minutes.

1823
03:05:35,200 --> 03:05:41,000
the meeting back to order. So, we need
some order.

1824
03:05:41,359 --> 03:05:47,600
Okay.
All right. So, we're going to move on to

1825
03:05:44,640 --> 03:05:51,040
action item nine, which relates to the
Bueno Vista Mobile Home Park

1826
03:05:49,520 --> 03:05:55,439
redevelopment.
Uh, so I'll turn it to staff. And is

1827
03:05:53,359 --> 03:05:58,240
that you, Deputy City Manager Cotton
Gains?

1828
03:05:56,479 --> 03:06:01,359
» Yes.
Thank you, madame mayor and members of

1829
03:05:59,600 --> 03:06:05,520
the city council. Chantel Cotton Gains,
deputy city manager. I have a very brief

1830
03:06:03,520 --> 03:06:11,040
presentation this evening about the item
before you, as well as having Mr. uh

1831
03:06:08,160 --> 03:06:15,359
Albert Yang on the line working on this
item with me and members of the housing

1832
03:06:13,439 --> 03:06:18,800
authority present this evening as well
as someone from Santa Clair County

1833
03:06:17,359 --> 03:06:24,720
Office of Supportive Housing to help
with questions. So, very briefly going

1834
03:06:21,840 --> 03:06:31,520
over this. Uh, nine years ago, the city
and the county, oh, next slide. Thanks.

1835
03:06:28,720 --> 03:06:34,720
Uh, the city and the county um joined
with the housing authority to preserve

1836
03:06:32,880 --> 03:06:39,840
affordable housing at Buenav Vista
Mobile Home Park and the parties put

1837
03:06:37,680 --> 03:06:44,240
together a triparty regulatory agreement
which established the baseline of what

1838
03:06:41,920 --> 03:06:48,080
the expectations are for the
redevelopment that was happening there

1839
03:06:45,760 --> 03:06:51,520
at that time. So on the slide that's in
front of you, we summarized just the

1840
03:06:49,920 --> 03:06:56,720
existing regulatory agreement, which is
the one that was entered into in 2017,

1841
03:06:54,240 --> 03:07:01,520
as well as the two new regulatory
agreements that are before you this

1842
03:06:58,000 --> 03:07:06,160
evening for adoption. So for the three
key terms, as this um item has been

1843
03:07:04,319 --> 03:07:11,120
discussed before, the affordability
requirements have remained the same

1844
03:07:08,160 --> 03:07:15,760
between this proposed regulatory
agreement for parcels A and B compared

1845
03:07:13,520 --> 03:07:21,200
to the existing regulatory agreement.
The expiration date, the original amount

1846
03:07:18,160 --> 03:07:25,439
was that it would expire in 75 years.
And because the redevelopment has taken

1847
03:07:22,880 --> 03:07:30,319
some time, as you recall, in 2024, there
was a proposal before this council for a

1848
03:07:28,319 --> 03:07:33,680
project and that was put on pause. And
so, right now, the housing authority is

1849
03:07:32,160 --> 03:07:37,680
moving forward with the utilities
upgrade project. And that is the reason

1850
03:07:35,920 --> 03:07:42,319
we're bringing the regulatory agreements
to you this evening. We wanted to

1851
03:07:40,000 --> 03:07:46,720
maintain that same 75- year time period
from the time the work was done. And so

1852
03:07:44,160 --> 03:07:53,600
the all parties have agreed that uh the
75 years would be the end of 2020 21101

1853
03:07:51,439 --> 03:07:57,120
which is really far away. And lastly,
the total number of units. The original

1854
03:07:55,359 --> 03:08:02,560
regulatory agreement required that we
maintain a minimum of 100 residential

1855
03:07:59,760 --> 03:08:07,120
units or mobile home spaces at the park.
We brought an item to council in June of

1856
03:08:04,720 --> 03:08:12,720
this year to do an official parcel split
to approve that map. And so that is what

1857
03:08:09,279 --> 03:08:17,680
created parcels A and parcel B. and the
regulatory agreements that are before

1858
03:08:14,319 --> 03:08:24,160
you today in total equal that 100 unit
minimum. So for parcel B which is where

1859
03:08:20,479 --> 03:08:28,080
the mobile homes are the minimum is 46
mobile home spaces and the housing

1860
03:08:26,319 --> 03:08:32,960
authority believes they can probably go
a little above that but they're at

1861
03:08:29,920 --> 03:08:37,760
minimum doing 46. And then for the
parcel A which would be the future

1862
03:08:34,800 --> 03:08:42,240
depart apartment development it is uh
maintaining a minimum of 54 residential

1863
03:08:40,160 --> 03:08:47,920
units and that'll be delayed until
implementation until 2033.

1864
03:08:45,600 --> 03:08:52,800
All of the other terms of the agreements
are pretty much the same from the

1865
03:08:50,479 --> 03:08:58,800
existing triparty agreement and the two
new regulatory agreements. Next slide.

1866
03:08:56,960 --> 03:09:04,080
And so the recommendation to the city
council this evening is authorizing the

1867
03:09:01,600 --> 03:09:08,479
city manager to execute and make non-s
substantive changes such as editing the

1868
03:09:05,920 --> 03:09:12,399
recital or the APN's and legal
descriptions to the new and amended

1869
03:09:10,880 --> 03:09:16,640
regulatory agreements and related
documents to facilitate the improvements

1870
03:09:14,240 --> 03:09:21,600
of the Buav Vista mobile home park at
3980 El Camino. And just of note, if you

1871
03:09:19,920 --> 03:09:25,279
looked at the attachments with the two
new regulatory agreements, you will

1872
03:09:23,040 --> 03:09:29,840
notice exhibit A with the description of
the legal bounds of the two sites that

1873
03:09:27,680 --> 03:09:34,160
it was similar in both regulatory
agreements. And that's because we don't

1874
03:09:31,359 --> 03:09:37,520
have the final language yet uh for those
official legal descriptions of the

1875
03:09:35,920 --> 03:09:41,200
parcels. And so that's one of the things
that you'd be authorizing the city

1876
03:09:39,040 --> 03:09:44,640
manager to update once we get that
official legal language. But most

1877
03:09:43,359 --> 03:09:48,560
importantly, we're really excited that
the three parties work together to bring

1878
03:09:46,399 --> 03:09:52,000
these recommended agreements to you this
evening. And we are ready to answer

1879
03:09:50,240 --> 03:09:56,160
questions and hopeful that this will be
approved so we can continue to move

1880
03:09:53,840 --> 03:10:00,960
forward with the housing authorities
work and utilizing a large state grant

1881
03:09:58,880 --> 03:10:08,479
that they have for the utilities upgrade
work at the park. Thank you.

1882
03:10:03,840 --> 03:10:12,319
» Thank you, Deputy City Manager. Um,
actually, I think I'll just go to public

1883
03:10:10,399 --> 03:10:17,640
comment on this matter. Madame clerk, do
we have uh people requesting to speak?

1884
03:10:22,720 --> 03:10:28,600
We have three requests to speak on
action item nine. Okay,

1885
03:10:28,800 --> 03:10:33,080
our first speaker is Winter D.

1886
03:10:41,279 --> 03:10:49,279
Hi. Um, so I read over very carefully
both of the uh

1887
03:10:47,760 --> 03:10:56,240
uh
regulatory agreements. Um,

1888
03:10:53,200 --> 03:11:00,479
I didn't see a lot of problem with them,
but there was one thing that wasn't in

1889
03:10:57,920 --> 03:11:06,880
there. Now, I sent it to council. I
don't know if all of you saw my short,

1890
03:11:02,960 --> 03:11:13,279
blessedly short email. Um the it had
been previously by I believe uh Vice

1891
03:11:10,399 --> 03:11:18,640
Mayor uh Stone uh suggested that there
be an internal waiting list for

1892
03:11:16,399 --> 03:11:25,680
residents at Buenov Vista Mobile Home
Park to be able to move into uh for

1893
03:11:23,040 --> 03:11:31,359
instance a larger unit if it were to be
made available rather than going

1894
03:11:27,439 --> 03:11:35,279
immediately outside of the park looking
for a completely new applicant from

1895
03:11:33,600 --> 03:11:40,479
somewhere else in the county or
wherever. And I think it would since

1896
03:11:37,520 --> 03:11:44,880
this is going to be kind of set in stone
once you approve this, it'll be the

1897
03:11:42,720 --> 03:11:48,720
entire agreement. I want you to really
think about that because uh and of

1898
03:11:47,359 --> 03:11:54,160
course we're talking about if they would
be qualified the

1899
03:11:51,600 --> 03:11:59,680
within uh Buenov Vista, but I want you
to seriously consider it. I think that

1900
03:11:57,200 --> 03:12:04,960
kind of internal preference is really
important. I don't know what happened to

1901
03:12:02,160 --> 03:12:10,080
the larger PaloAlto preference that was
also talked about in some length but I

1902
03:12:08,000 --> 03:12:16,680
leave that to maybe you get more
information and thank you so much.

1903
03:12:12,399 --> 03:12:16,680
» Our next speaker is Herb B.

1904
03:12:24,880 --> 03:12:32,800
Uh my recollection was that the housing
authority said that uh they did not have

1905
03:12:30,080 --> 03:12:43,439
a viable project because uh of being
unable to finance uh the apartment part

1906
03:12:36,800 --> 03:12:49,359
of the the project. uh since this
apparently is extending the the time for

1907
03:12:45,920 --> 03:12:51,600
them to be able to do that. And I
believe a ballot measure

1908
03:12:51,363 --> 03:12:57,680
» [snorts]
>> u statewide uh that state senator uh

1909
03:12:55,439 --> 03:13:05,520
Scott Weiner has placed on for
affordable housing. Uh he indicated that

1910
03:13:02,080 --> 03:13:11,840
uh that funding could be used
uh to

1911
03:13:07,840 --> 03:13:18,160
uh change a mobile home park to
a multiple family, you know, apartment

1912
03:13:15,120 --> 03:13:26,399
uh dwelling and I believe also could be
used to uh provide funding for uh the

1913
03:13:23,040 --> 03:13:31,680
housing affordable housing on religious
institutions you know where 25% of the

1914
03:13:29,760 --> 03:13:38,800
uh land can be used for affordable
housing. So, I was wondering uh how how

1915
03:13:34,479 --> 03:13:43,120
this connects or changes uh the previous
statements from the housing corporation

1916
03:13:41,200 --> 03:13:49,120
that they didn't have a viable project
because they couldn't have the funding

1917
03:13:45,680 --> 03:13:57,640
for the the I guess it's parcel B for
the apartments. Thank you.

1918
03:13:51,920 --> 03:13:57,640
» Our next speaker is Henry E.

1919
03:14:01,040 --> 03:14:10,640
This all represents a small effort of
palative to allow people of working

1920
03:14:07,439 --> 03:14:14,960
class to continue to live in Palo Alto.
My first concern is in moving people

1921
03:14:12,640 --> 03:14:20,000
around that nobody loses their trailer,
their residence, that their right to

1922
03:14:16,960 --> 03:14:26,160
stay either in that where they are now
or move to a better location where their

1923
03:14:22,560 --> 03:14:30,720
trailer can be protected. So secondly,
the amount of housing to be built

1924
03:14:28,239 --> 03:14:35,520
apparently will not even start until
2033.

1925
03:14:32,720 --> 03:14:40,319
Why so long? What's going on? It looks
like another attempt to stall to stall.

1926
03:14:38,560 --> 03:14:45,840
And also the scale of this. We must
think on a much larger scale to build

1927
03:14:43,520 --> 03:14:51,760
housing so that people of all class
levels, working, middle, and upper class

1928
03:14:49,120 --> 03:14:56,640
can live safely in Palo Alto. Everyone
should have the right to live near where

1929
03:14:54,640 --> 03:15:01,040
they work. That's how we solve all this
car problem. We won't need cars if

1930
03:14:58,880 --> 03:15:05,359
people could walk to work. So, it's all
interrelated and the housing issue can

1931
03:15:03,439 --> 03:15:10,160
be solved in the city by bringing
together Stanford University that has

1932
03:15:08,080 --> 03:15:14,239
the land, the business community that
has the resources and Palo Alto city

1933
03:15:12,800 --> 03:15:19,040
that has the zoning and other
authorities. So at the same time that we

1934
03:15:16,880 --> 03:15:24,880
must build housing to scale, we must
also disassemble the billionaire's

1935
03:15:22,319 --> 03:15:30,239
compounds and return them to single
family housing units. We need equitable

1936
03:15:27,600 --> 03:15:35,279
policy at all levels for this city. This
project to save Vista is a small but

1937
03:15:32,880 --> 03:15:39,880
necessary part of it. Thank you.
>> Our next speaker is Aram F.

1938
03:15:43,120 --> 03:15:53,200
» Okay. So, I lived on Los Robos for I
don't know 30 40 years and um you know

1939
03:15:49,840 --> 03:15:57,760
um Guav Vista is a is a gem. I'm a
little confused though because it it it

1940
03:15:55,040 --> 03:16:02,880
seemed as though a few years back we
were about to start the building process

1941
03:16:00,640 --> 03:16:08,000
to build the apartments and then all of
a sudden there was some disputes. Some

1942
03:16:04,960 --> 03:16:13,359
tenants uh were unhappy about the size
of the units they were being offered and

1943
03:16:09,920 --> 03:16:18,399
so the county backed out. now and maybe
somebody on the dis council member can

1944
03:16:16,720 --> 03:16:23,600
explain to me. It looks like we're
having the the the present tenants move

1945
03:16:21,520 --> 03:16:28,239
out so that we can do the underlying
utilities and they're going to move back

1946
03:16:26,319 --> 03:16:32,880
and then correct me if I'm wrong going
to have to move out a second time when

1947
03:16:30,319 --> 03:16:36,560
they actually get to the building of the
units.

1948
03:16:34,720 --> 03:16:46,880
problem that I raised a few years back
when I sent my oldest son over there to

1949
03:16:40,479 --> 03:16:52,560
apply to be uh in a unit there. Uh they
were it very uh adverse it appeared to

1950
03:16:49,760 --> 03:16:57,279
him to having African-Americans be part
of that uh

1951
03:16:54,960 --> 03:17:02,239
project at Buenav Vista. As you all
know, we've pushed out a lot of the the

1952
03:16:59,439 --> 03:17:06,800
black community gentrification going on
in Park Boulevard area. I've asked

1953
03:17:04,960 --> 03:17:12,640
repeatedly as part of the reparations
that PaloAlto owes to the black

1954
03:17:09,200 --> 03:17:19,840
community to make sure that we preserve
housing for underresourced black members

1955
03:17:16,399 --> 03:17:26,160
of the of our our county. Uh we're down
to 2%. Um, you folks have never even

1956
03:17:23,200 --> 03:17:31,439
been willing to say the word reparations
even though it's now in the vernacular

1957
03:17:29,120 --> 03:17:36,399
in the state. There's some cities in the
country that have moved on that. They

1958
03:17:33,279 --> 03:17:41,840
all been lame, lame, lame on that. I
don't understand that. So when we look

1959
03:17:38,720 --> 03:17:46,399
at the project, I also want to make sure
that yes, we keep the Hispanic

1960
03:17:44,720 --> 03:17:51,760
population, the wonderful populations
that's there, but open it up to some

1961
03:17:49,200 --> 03:17:58,120
other people of color as well. That just
seems to me to be an obvious. So, thank

1962
03:17:54,880 --> 03:17:58,120
you much.

1963
03:17:58,560 --> 03:18:06,840
» And that concludes public comment on
action item nine.

1964
03:18:01,920 --> 03:18:06,840
» All right. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Um,

1965
03:18:07,439 --> 03:18:16,000
I just want to just start um by asking
staff um

1966
03:18:13,840 --> 03:18:21,040
uh
M. Delen Bach's uh comments about um the

1967
03:18:19,200 --> 03:18:27,680
families who are there that have grown
through natural ways various ways and

1968
03:18:23,920 --> 03:18:32,960
are uh may need uh an additional spot
over time or something. I do remember

1969
03:18:29,760 --> 03:18:37,600
there was a discussion um at least among
some of us of an intent that existing

1970
03:18:35,600 --> 03:18:43,600
expanding families could have first
choice in any sort of new or vacated

1971
03:18:39,760 --> 03:18:47,520
spots. Um while our goal was not to
displace any residents, we we thought

1972
03:18:46,000 --> 03:18:50,800
about giving [clears throat] them the
opportunity to have a more appropriate

1973
03:18:49,040 --> 03:18:57,120
amount of living space like current uh
tenants before new tenants might come

1974
03:18:53,840 --> 03:19:02,880
in. this may not well I what I'm asking
is where if if we were to memorialize

1975
03:19:00,239 --> 03:19:07,920
that where would be the right place to
document that because I'm I don't know

1976
03:19:04,960 --> 03:19:14,080
if the regulatory agreement is but could
we somewhere somehow record that idea if

1977
03:19:11,760 --> 03:19:18,319
in fact it's a consensus of our council.
>> So I [snorts] I can take that answer. Um

1978
03:19:16,720 --> 03:19:22,640
so I mean there there will be other
documents that establish tenant

1979
03:19:20,319 --> 03:19:27,279
selection policies um not necessarily
ones that have to be recorded against

1980
03:19:25,279 --> 03:19:32,800
you know against the world uh you know
to give notice to the world. Um so those

1981
03:19:30,640 --> 03:19:38,319
kind of policies could be embedded in
those documents. I would say with that

1982
03:19:35,200 --> 03:19:43,920
specific policy um we would need to look
uh closely at fair housing implications

1983
03:19:41,359 --> 03:19:47,359
um for for any policy like that before
we implemented it.

1984
03:19:45,359 --> 03:19:52,800
» Okay. Yeah, I just ask that we do that
at the appropriate time. I think that's

1985
03:19:50,000 --> 03:19:58,560
um an important part of of us uh
maintaining this community uh in our

1986
03:19:54,800 --> 03:20:01,760
midst. Um and then just uh while I have
the mic,

1987
03:19:59,680 --> 03:20:06,399
» madam mayor, we also have uh Flareity
from the housing authority who can speak

1988
03:20:03,439 --> 03:20:10,399
to how they work on some of the um
related to that issue as well.

1989
03:20:08,000 --> 03:20:13,760
» That'd be great. Would you be willing?
Thank you.

1990
03:20:11,760 --> 03:20:17,359
» Hi, council mayor, vice mayor. It's nice
to be here tonight. um Flity Ward with

1991
03:20:15,680 --> 03:20:21,120
the Still with the Santa Clair County
Housing Authority. Um happy to be in

1992
03:20:19,920 --> 03:20:24,399
front of you all tonight. And to speak
to this specific issue, um and this is

1993
03:20:23,200 --> 03:20:28,479
the same throughout the housing
authorities portfolio. It doesn't just

1994
03:20:26,080 --> 03:20:32,720
apply to Buista. When a family is in
need of a larger unit, they are placed

1995
03:20:30,720 --> 03:20:36,479
on what we call an internal eligibility
list. So we have our our natural weight

1996
03:20:34,720 --> 03:20:40,880
list that we manage, but then there's an
internal eligibility list for people

1997
03:20:38,319 --> 03:20:46,800
that need a larger home. And then when
one becomes available, it is we refer to

1998
03:20:44,000 --> 03:20:51,279
that list. Um, so you know, we're not
displacing people from the park who

1999
03:20:49,200 --> 03:20:54,880
can't uh, you know, be there anymore due
to their family size. So that's the

2000
03:20:52,560 --> 03:20:58,080
general policy throughout the agency.
>> Got it. And so that's that's what you do

2001
03:20:56,319 --> 03:21:01,520
now as a matter of course. And
>> that's what we do now as a matter of

2002
03:20:59,439 --> 03:21:04,080
course um throughout our entire
portfolio.

2003
03:21:02,239 --> 03:21:08,640
» Okay. Great. Good to know. Um,
>> because families do change.

2004
03:21:05,760 --> 03:21:12,479
» Exactly. Exactly. And uh, so all right.
Thank you. And then um could I ask her a

2005
03:21:11,439 --> 03:21:18,000
followup while she's there?
>> Sure. Is that okay? Um just to follow

2006
03:21:14,720 --> 03:21:22,640
up. Thank you, Mayor. Uh on Miss Dylan's
other prong of her question about Palo

2007
03:21:19,520 --> 03:21:26,720
Alto eligibility. Um we're of course
very interested in low-income residents

2008
03:21:24,239 --> 03:21:30,560
of our city being able to have priority,
but we understand this is something that

2009
03:21:28,479 --> 03:21:34,239
is being organized by the county and the
housing authority. And so we know there

2010
03:21:32,720 --> 03:21:38,960
are probably limitations on that as
there are with our home key. Can you

2011
03:21:35,680 --> 03:21:44,560
give us a sense of what whether any
preference is given to a PaloAlto

2012
03:21:42,399 --> 03:21:46,720
person, a person with Palo Alto ties
when it comes to where they are on the

2013
03:21:45,920 --> 03:21:50,160
wait list?
>> Yeah. Well, currently there is no, you

2014
03:21:48,640 --> 03:21:55,439
know, we're not accepting new applicants
to Buista only because we're getting

2015
03:21:52,080 --> 03:21:58,560
ready for this um improvement. Um, if
the city council is interested in

2016
03:21:57,040 --> 03:22:03,040
exploring a local preference, I think
that's something that, um, we can take

2017
03:22:00,960 --> 03:22:07,120
into consideration and look at, you
know, all applicable fair housing rules

2018
03:22:05,279 --> 03:22:10,080
and regulations and funding programs.
There's a lot of different things at

2019
03:22:08,160 --> 03:22:14,880
Touch Point of Vista that we would need
to ensure we're not running a foul of

2020
03:22:12,080 --> 03:22:17,680
and get the necessary approvals. Um, but
if that's something the city council

2021
03:22:16,080 --> 03:22:22,319
would like us to look at with staff, we
can.

2022
03:22:19,840 --> 03:22:24,000
» I think I would. Thank you. Good to see
you again.

2023
03:22:22,960 --> 03:22:27,600
» Yeah, you too.
>> All right. Thank you. And then uh my

2024
03:22:25,680 --> 03:22:33,800
other question for staff is whether they
had any response uh to Mr. Borak's

2025
03:22:30,800 --> 03:22:33,800
question.

2026
03:22:34,720 --> 03:22:41,600
» His question specifically on the
financing of the project.

2027
03:22:39,760 --> 03:22:46,239
Okay. I will take part of this and then
I will let Miss Ward provide the rest of

2028
03:22:43,840 --> 03:22:50,960
it. So, the project that came before the
council in 2024, uh, which was for the

2029
03:22:49,359 --> 03:22:55,120
changes at the mobile home park in
addition to the apartment building, that

2030
03:22:53,359 --> 03:22:58,640
project, given all of the multiple
aspects of it, the housing authority

2031
03:22:56,880 --> 03:23:02,560
determined was not feasible to go
forward with at that time. They did have

2032
03:23:00,720 --> 03:23:07,040
a large grant that came from the state
for about 25 million as an estimate. And

2033
03:23:05,520 --> 03:23:10,479
that is the funding that they're using
for this utilities upgrade project,

2034
03:23:08,880 --> 03:23:14,160
which is what we're moving forward with
right now. So, some of this work was

2035
03:23:12,000 --> 03:23:17,520
included in that 2024 project, but they
couldn't do the entire project given all

2036
03:23:16,000 --> 03:23:23,600
the elements, but I'll let Miss Ward add
on from there.

2037
03:23:20,239 --> 03:23:27,920
» That was a great summary. Um, the total
cost of the improvement project is about

2038
03:23:25,840 --> 03:23:33,200
$30 million. So, the balance that is not
paid through uh the more funds will be

2039
03:23:31,200 --> 03:23:37,920
paid by the housing authority as well as
we received a small grant through um

2040
03:23:35,279 --> 03:23:41,840
ESU's office to electrify the park. So,
we plan on using that in those efforts.

2041
03:23:39,760 --> 03:23:46,720
and then the housing authority um
providing the gap financing to get this

2042
03:23:44,000 --> 03:23:51,200
project started and finished.
>> Great. Thank you.

2043
03:23:48,960 --> 03:23:57,439
All right. Um colleagues, any further
discussion or a motion?

2044
03:23:54,160 --> 03:24:02,880
» Council member Bart.
>> Yes. Um I wanted to understand um better

2045
03:24:01,359 --> 03:24:07,120
on
in the [snorts] 9-month interimm period

2046
03:24:05,120 --> 03:24:12,000
where uh current residents are
relocated. Not all are um being

2047
03:24:10,000 --> 03:24:17,520
relocated within PaloAlto but they're
all being accommodated. Um we had had

2048
03:24:14,800 --> 03:24:23,680
previous discussion about students in
PAUSD

2049
03:24:19,120 --> 03:24:28,399
and um and my understanding is that
there there's collaboration with PAUSD.

2050
03:24:26,399 --> 03:24:34,080
I just want to understand better about
the transportation of those students if

2051
03:24:30,399 --> 03:24:39,600
they're um um residing outside of
PaloAlto. What is that that uh

2052
03:24:37,279 --> 03:24:43,920
transportation program?
>> Absolutely. So, Miss Ward can share the

2053
03:24:41,840 --> 03:24:47,439
specifics, but I will share on her
behalf before she gets up here. The

2054
03:24:45,680 --> 03:24:51,600
housing authority did a pretty extensive
search to find apartment units within

2055
03:24:49,520 --> 03:24:56,960
PaloAlto. She can share the statistics,
but they asked a lot of people and got a

2056
03:24:53,920 --> 03:25:01,359
response from one. And so with that in
mind, they went to as close as possible

2057
03:24:59,040 --> 03:25:04,560
to PaloAlto, which is why you hear of
some in Mountain View. And so Miss Flity

2058
03:25:03,200 --> 03:25:11,520
can speak to how they plan to keep the
Peloto students uh whole. Um let me give

2059
03:25:08,960 --> 03:25:15,439
some background to to explain. We have
been in kind of constant communication

2060
03:25:13,520 --> 03:25:19,040
with the school district for the past
almost year at this point, having

2061
03:25:16,880 --> 03:25:24,399
regular check-ins with them. So letting
them know about the timeline impacted

2062
03:25:21,680 --> 03:25:29,120
families um so that we can on either
side uh make sure we're gathering the

2063
03:25:26,960 --> 03:25:33,439
appropriate data to prepare for impacts.
Um so that has been open communication

2064
03:25:30,880 --> 03:25:37,439
and has been really great. Um we are
utilizing actually the same um

2065
03:25:35,920 --> 03:25:42,560
transportation service the city of
PaloAlto does to hire private transport.

2066
03:25:40,160 --> 03:25:47,680
Um so similar to the number that folks
can call in the city of PaloAlto if they

2067
03:25:44,239 --> 03:25:52,720
want a a private ride somewhere um that
service is also being made available to

2068
03:25:50,720 --> 03:25:58,960
um Buen a Vista families while they are
relocated to assist in getting their

2069
03:25:54,479 --> 03:26:02,000
children to school. Um our relocation um
our folks that are managing that on our

2070
03:26:00,479 --> 03:26:06,479
behalf are regularly meeting with the
residents to figure out what their um

2071
03:26:03,680 --> 03:26:10,479
impacts might be uh and if they need to
take advantage of that transportation

2072
03:26:08,319 --> 03:26:15,120
option. Um, and then we're also
reimbursing families can also get a

2073
03:26:12,560 --> 03:26:19,279
reimbursement for mileage if they are
traveling farther to get their children

2074
03:26:16,800 --> 03:26:24,479
to school as well. Um, and then we plan
on being in touch with the school

2075
03:26:22,000 --> 03:26:29,279
district on whether there's any um
issues with kids getting to school late

2076
03:26:26,479 --> 03:26:32,399
or any impacts to their attendance as a
result of this so we can help coordinate

2077
03:26:30,960 --> 03:26:34,800
from our end with services and support
the families to make sure their children

2078
03:26:33,760 --> 03:26:37,760
can get to school.
>> So, are you referring to the Palo Alto

2079
03:26:36,640 --> 03:26:46,080
link program?
>> Yes. Oh, but can staff comment on

2080
03:26:42,960 --> 03:26:51,359
our windown of that program and how it
aligns with this ninemonth period?

2081
03:26:49,439 --> 03:26:54,479
» I will uh check with staff and loop
right back. I don't I don't know that

2082
03:26:52,960 --> 03:26:57,279
it's officially the link itself.
>> Oh, it's Sevilla. Is that the name of

2083
03:26:56,160 --> 03:27:00,960
the
>> Yeah, same company but not our contract.

2084
03:26:59,680 --> 03:27:04,080
» Yeah, it's a different contract. We're
not using the city's contract. We're

2085
03:27:02,720 --> 03:27:11,840
using a similar Yeah.
>> Okay. Uh, and I I do want to support um

2086
03:27:08,560 --> 03:27:19,600
uh to the extent we can that PaloAlto
local preference for additional spots

2087
03:27:15,200 --> 03:27:27,680
um should they open up. And the um the
staff report said a minimum of um 46

2088
03:27:23,359 --> 03:27:28,560
spots I think it was on um parcel B,
right?

2089
03:27:28,080 --> 03:27:34,720
» Yep.
>> And what do you anticipate is the likely

2090
03:27:32,239 --> 03:27:36,080
full capacity? Uh we think it's around
56.

2091
03:27:35,520 --> 03:27:41,840
» Oh, good.
>> Yeah. If we're able to create some

2092
03:27:38,080 --> 03:27:45,359
efficiencies within the park. Um
uh but it remains to be determined once

2093
03:27:43,760 --> 03:27:49,520
we finish the infrastructure project. We
have $5 million through the state of

2094
03:27:47,120 --> 03:27:55,760
Calhoun to start a launch a voluntary
home replacement program. So some of it

2095
03:27:52,160 --> 03:27:58,319
will depend on who the final kind of
spacing will depend on who participates

2096
03:27:57,359 --> 03:28:02,319
in that program
>> because our our next item is our

2097
03:28:00,560 --> 03:28:09,600
oversized vehicles which we're looking
at a variety of measures to try to help

2098
03:28:05,520 --> 03:28:15,600
um uh some of those uh families
especially when they're they're um local

2099
03:28:12,319 --> 03:28:24,800
families and uh very low income. Would
would those additional 10 spots up to 10

2100
03:28:18,479 --> 03:28:32,080
spots um would they be uh need-based on
on um uh being unhoused uh or uh income

2101
03:28:30,160 --> 03:28:38,080
based? How would how would that work?
>> Yeah. Um it will be income based. So the

2102
03:28:35,200 --> 03:28:42,960
regulatory agreement outlines the uh we
call them like affordability buckets of

2103
03:28:40,160 --> 03:28:47,760
each of the levels. So what happens is
we analyze the current rent role against

2104
03:28:45,439 --> 03:28:51,200
the required affordability set aides and
then the spaces that become available

2105
03:28:49,279 --> 03:28:56,399
are subject to where we need to fill
buckets right if we need more certain

2106
03:28:53,359 --> 03:29:01,279
income levels and then we would we would
um you know take people off the weight

2107
03:28:58,239 --> 03:29:09,520
list. So conceivably within the the
local preference, we could include uh

2108
03:29:04,560 --> 03:29:14,560
people in uh uh in RVs on uh currently
on the street uh within a local

2109
03:29:12,000 --> 03:29:18,880
preference depending on whether they
qualify within those income buckets.

2110
03:29:17,279 --> 03:29:24,000
» I would probably need to talk to our
attorney about how like specific you can

2111
03:29:21,920 --> 03:29:29,359
drill down on a local preference. I
don't know the answer to that.

2112
03:29:25,040 --> 03:29:29,359
» Okay. All right. Thank you. All

2113
03:29:30,319 --> 03:29:38,520
right. Thank you, colleagues. Any other
questions [clears throat]

2114
03:29:34,239 --> 03:29:38,520
or comments or motions?

2115
03:29:39,200 --> 03:29:47,439
» Council member Lou,
>> I'll echo the point about a uh local

2116
03:29:43,600 --> 03:29:53,439
preference and um uh also echo the
broader theme and point of uh potential

2117
03:29:50,000 --> 03:29:57,279
space for RV residents. Uh and with
that, I will move the staff

2118
03:29:54,560 --> 03:29:59,760
recommendation as well.
Thank you.

2119
03:29:58,720 --> 03:30:06,239
» Second.
>> Thank you. Any further discussion?

2120
03:30:04,319 --> 03:30:13,000
» Yeah, I just want to make sure that the
um that local preference request is

2121
03:30:09,279 --> 03:30:13,000
included in the motion.

2122
03:30:13,920 --> 03:30:20,880
» I think that's a referral for staff to
work with the housing authority on next

2123
03:30:17,920 --> 03:30:25,120
steps there. Yeah, we just want to
codify it as a referral

2124
03:30:23,359 --> 03:30:32,000
» and we could just add an extra bullet
point under the motion with uh just the

2125
03:30:27,520 --> 03:30:35,000
word uh with a referral for uh local
preferences.

2126
03:30:39,200 --> 03:30:42,200
» Secondary

2127
03:30:48,640 --> 03:30:53,319
referral to staff.
>> Yes.

2128
03:30:56,399 --> 03:30:58,319
Do
>> you want to speak further to your motion

2129
03:30:57,760 --> 03:31:03,439
or second?
>> To work with staff to to work with

2130
03:31:00,160 --> 03:31:07,920
housing authority.
>> Referral to staff.

2131
03:31:04,560 --> 03:31:15,720
» Staff to work with. Okay.
>> Referral to staff to work with housing

2132
03:31:10,880 --> 03:31:15,720
authority for local preference. Yeah.

2133
03:31:20,880 --> 03:31:25,200
Yeah, I I know there's more words
smmithing we can do, but I think the

2134
03:31:24,399 --> 03:31:28,239
point is
>> that covers it

2135
03:31:25,760 --> 03:31:34,000
» clear enough. Um, so uh no other
comments. Um, uh, glad that we can have

2136
03:31:31,840 --> 03:31:37,279
utility improvements, electrification, a
bunch of facility improvements. I think

2137
03:31:35,520 --> 03:31:39,840
it's the right step and I think we
really look forward to working

2138
03:31:38,319 --> 03:31:47,720
productively with the housing authority
and um uh getting the ball moving as

2139
03:31:43,520 --> 03:31:47,720
quickly and clearly as possible.

2140
03:31:50,720 --> 03:31:56,160
All right, great. Well, this has been a
long time coming. I'm eager to see the

2141
03:31:54,160 --> 03:32:00,040
next steps. And so with that, I will ask
the clerk to call a role.

2142
03:32:00,960 --> 03:32:04,239
» Council member Rectal.
>> Yes.

2143
03:32:02,960 --> 03:32:06,319
» Council member Lads.
>> Yes. Vice Mayor Stone,

2144
03:32:05,600 --> 03:32:07,520
» yes.
>> Mayor Vinker,

2145
03:32:07,200 --> 03:32:08,880
» yes.
>> Council member Lou,

2146
03:32:08,560 --> 03:32:10,160
» yes.
>> Council member Lowing,

2147
03:32:09,840 --> 03:32:11,359
» yes.
>> Council member Bert,

2148
03:32:11,040 --> 03:32:15,040
» yes.
>> Motion carries unanimously.

2149
03:32:13,200 --> 03:32:19,520
» All right. Thank you. This item will go
to the county tomorrow for approval and

2150
03:32:17,520 --> 03:32:22,160
then uh within a week, it'll go to the
housing authorities board for approval

2151
03:32:21,279 --> 03:32:25,760
as well.
>> Wonderful. All right. Well, thank you,

2152
03:32:23,920 --> 03:32:29,600
Deputy City Manager. Thank you, Miss
Ward. I also see some other colleagues

2153
03:32:27,520 --> 03:32:33,120
up there. Um, so anyway, we appreciate
this and look forward to seeing the next

2154
03:32:30,960 --> 03:32:36,800
step happen.
All right. And with that, we will move

2155
03:32:34,560 --> 03:32:43,359
on to our next and last action item of
the evening. Item 10, recommendation uh

2156
03:32:41,120 --> 03:32:51,239
to launch two pilot OSB parking
programs, etc. Um

2157
03:32:46,800 --> 03:32:51,239
we'll give staff a second to shuffle.

2158
03:33:27,359 --> 03:33:38,239
Okay. Um, all right. Well, this is one
where uh we have had an ad hoc committee

2159
03:33:34,880 --> 03:33:41,760
diligently working with staff and so to
kick us off tonight, I'm going to turn

2160
03:33:39,760 --> 03:33:47,200
to the chair of that ad hoc, Council
Member Lowing.

2161
03:33:44,080 --> 03:33:50,560
» Okay. Thank you. Yes. And I just want to
begin by

2162
03:33:49,120 --> 03:33:54,560
giving you giving you an overview of
where we've been. Uh that includes the

2163
03:33:52,399 --> 03:33:59,600
original direction from council. Uh
brief view on our outreach and comment

2164
03:33:57,040 --> 03:34:04,880
on what we learned. Uh then comment on
the staff proposal both the content and

2165
03:34:02,160 --> 03:34:09,840
the timing. Uh and then later after
staff gives a presentation uh all three

2166
03:34:07,439 --> 03:34:13,600
ad hoc committee members uh are going to
speak individually from their own sort

2167
03:34:11,520 --> 03:34:18,080
of personal point of view of uh where we
are and what we each think uh we should

2168
03:34:16,319 --> 03:34:24,880
do.
Um so we all know that the large

2169
03:34:21,439 --> 03:34:31,120
population of OSVs is a [snorts]
issue in cities around the country uh

2170
03:34:27,520 --> 03:34:37,359
national, state, um and local. Uh that
said, our jobs here, so we have to focus

2171
03:34:34,479 --> 03:34:43,040
on what we can get done here. Uh we we
know that the RV population,

2172
03:34:40,399 --> 03:34:47,920
OSV RV, is made up [clears throat] of
people in varied circumstances. We know

2173
03:34:45,200 --> 03:34:52,880
that by talking with a lot of them. Um,
some just simply can't afford to live

2174
03:34:49,760 --> 03:34:58,640
here. Uh, but they have a job here. Uh,
some have med medical or substance abuse

2175
03:34:55,279 --> 03:35:03,520
problems. Um, some simply want to have
free rent. Uh, some have a home

2176
03:35:00,800 --> 03:35:07,760
elsewhere and, uh, stay here during the
work week and sort of go home. Uh, some

2177
03:35:05,840 --> 03:35:12,239
like the mobile lifestyle and and a lot
of other different categories. Uh, it's

2178
03:35:09,600 --> 03:35:16,800
not just one thing.
So, the council asked us to address this

2179
03:35:14,720 --> 03:35:23,040
issue with a sort of a two-pronged
approach. And the first is toward leg

2180
03:35:20,160 --> 03:35:28,479
what I call legitimate lowincome folks
that just need a helping hand uh to get

2181
03:35:25,520 --> 03:35:34,239
to permanent housing. And the second
prong is the waves of OSVs that are

2182
03:35:32,000 --> 03:35:38,880
really interfering with uh commercial
businesses and in some cases residential

2183
03:35:36,399 --> 03:35:44,960
areas. And this has been going on for a
long time. Uh both of these problems are

2184
03:35:42,800 --> 03:35:50,154
real, they're chronic, and they're high
priority.

2185
03:35:46,880 --> 03:35:53,680
So, as the ad hoc got going,
[clears throat] we came up with a list

2186
03:35:51,600 --> 03:35:59,520
of initiatives
starting with how do we find new places

2187
03:35:56,080 --> 03:36:05,120
for some of these vehicles to to park.
At the time, the count was about 200

2188
03:36:01,200 --> 03:36:09,120
OSVs. Um sometimes that and that did not
count sometimes the commute vehicles cuz

2189
03:36:07,279 --> 03:36:14,720
some folks have a car to actually
literally do their commute to a job. So

2190
03:36:11,359 --> 03:36:21,040
but the OSV count was uh was about 200.
So we did extensive I mean very

2191
03:36:17,200 --> 03:36:26,479
extensive outreach to commercial uh
developers, property owners and

2192
03:36:23,200 --> 03:36:34,000
businesses in our city and beyond.
um especially those that were empty, not

2193
03:36:30,479 --> 03:36:39,520
least, and had empty parking lots looked
like a great opportunity. Um

2194
03:36:38,319 --> 03:36:47,279
secondly, we talked to faith
communities. Uh a number of them had

2195
03:36:41,600 --> 03:36:52,800
already allowed day use for um homeless
in uh vehicles.

2196
03:36:51,040 --> 03:36:59,680
We appealed to the county of Santa Clara
for land uh including uh the very large

2197
03:36:57,520 --> 03:37:04,880
uh fairgrounds that are only used
sporadically throughout the year.

2198
03:37:02,720 --> 03:37:08,960
Overall, this problem really needs a
regional solution led by the county

2199
03:37:06,880 --> 03:37:13,920
because the county's whole sort of
reason for being is a safety net for

2200
03:37:11,760 --> 03:37:19,520
those in need. And they understand that.
They embrace that. but they'd just been

2201
03:37:16,640 --> 03:37:25,359
slammed with budget cuts caused by uh
federal cuts.

2202
03:37:22,239 --> 03:37:29,840
And we were also very eager to have the
88 bed transitional housing at Homekey

2203
03:37:27,680 --> 03:37:35,760
open uh so that we could use some of
those units there for some of the OSV

2204
03:37:33,359 --> 03:37:40,640
dwellers um particularly since it's in
Palo Alto and we invested in it. And

2205
03:37:38,160 --> 03:37:44,560
then we found out that when it opened,
it was backlogged

2206
03:37:42,880 --> 03:37:49,040
with units for residents that had
previously been housed in hotels because

2207
03:37:46,560 --> 03:37:54,239
of the late construction. So we ended up
getting none of those beds of the 88

2208
03:37:52,000 --> 03:37:59,279
beds that are in Palo Alto.
So the bottom line is that everything we

2209
03:37:57,120 --> 03:38:04,720
reached out to try to do and all these
initiatives did not work. None of them

2210
03:38:02,800 --> 03:38:08,560
after all this time. And I mean we
worked on it. Um there's one help hope

2211
03:38:08,560 --> 03:38:13,560
help hope help hope help hope help hope

2212
03:38:08,560 --> 03:38:08,640
help hope help hope help hope help hope
help hope help hope help hope help hope

2213
03:38:08,640 --> 03:38:12,239
help hope help hope help hope help hope
help hope help hope help hope helpful

2214
03:38:09,120 --> 03:38:16,479
footnote and that is that we now do have
a a nibble from the county that they

2215
03:38:14,319 --> 03:38:21,279
would like to work with us uh to get
some safe parking but no details so

2216
03:38:19,439 --> 03:38:26,560
that's still a stone that's not
overturned the estimated count is now

2217
03:38:23,920 --> 03:38:32,640
about 130 to 140 depending on the day
you count uh and that is down from 200

2218
03:38:29,680 --> 03:38:36,560
due to the citations and towing um of
course now we need to take further

2219
03:38:33,840 --> 03:38:41,359
action to address the OSV population.
Um, but I do want to salute the folks

2220
03:38:38,880 --> 03:38:45,600
that worked on this in the uh in the
city, the police department and public

2221
03:38:43,520 --> 03:38:50,281
works around the firing line there, but
a lot of folks in the city manager's

2222
03:38:47,120 --> 03:38:52,301
office and and elsewhere and and legal.
[cough]

2223
03:38:53,279 --> 03:38:59,520
So, I've come on staff proposal. Uh,
it's it's just time to come back to

2224
03:38:56,960 --> 03:39:03,760
council now uh given what I just
reported on and come up with an

2225
03:39:01,279 --> 03:39:09,600
alternative proposal than than what we
have. Um, so this particular proposal uh

2226
03:39:07,680 --> 03:39:14,800
came from staff to be debated. The
objective being direction, turn around,

2227
03:39:12,479 --> 03:39:20,239
send it back to staff with direction on
what council wants them to do.

2228
03:39:17,120 --> 03:39:26,640
So the council ad hoc committee uh is
three people and it's really part of a

2229
03:39:24,560 --> 03:39:30,479
bigger ad hoc committee which is all the
staff which is 10 to 12 folks that meet

2230
03:39:28,399 --> 03:39:37,200
with us every time we meet including the
city attorney, the city manager, um the

2231
03:39:34,000 --> 03:39:40,399
director of uh of um public works and
all of their staff. Uh you'll hear from

2232
03:39:39,040 --> 03:39:46,080
the city attorney a little bit later
tonight. Um, but I also want to point

2233
03:39:42,800 --> 03:39:51,760
out that this actual proposal was not um
created by the council of three people

2234
03:39:49,200 --> 03:39:55,760
um uh nor was it reviewed by the council
three people uh before it went out. So

2235
03:39:53,920 --> 03:40:01,040
the staff report includes you know a lot
of elements that were discussed by the

2236
03:39:57,279 --> 03:40:05,520
full ad hoc um and also introduces some
some new material uh such as the

2237
03:40:03,520 --> 03:40:09,920
proposed rollout schedules that uh that
we hadn't seen. Um, I think there are

2238
03:40:08,160 --> 03:40:13,200
also some some items in the report that
need clarification and I just want to

2239
03:40:11,520 --> 03:40:17,359
take this moment now to give a couple of
examples before we go to public comment.

2240
03:40:15,520 --> 03:40:24,239
Uh, many folks have written us saying
that the staff report in uh, pilot 2 of

2241
03:40:21,359 --> 03:40:28,560
putting half the vehicles uh, on one
side of the street actually makes them

2242
03:40:26,800 --> 03:40:32,800
permanent. And that's not correct.
There's no indication here uh, that

2243
03:40:30,960 --> 03:40:38,160
those are going to be permanent. uh it
was intended as a an option as a stop

2244
03:40:34,960 --> 03:40:44,479
gap measure to remove half to remove not
keep half of the OSVs to relieve half of

2245
03:40:41,279 --> 03:40:47,760
the problem uh as soon as we can. Uh so
there's no current recommendation to

2246
03:40:46,160 --> 03:40:50,560
make that other half permanent and we
can do whatever we want with that but

2247
03:40:49,279 --> 03:40:55,600
that was the concept and the other side
of the concept was to be equity uh uh

2248
03:40:53,200 --> 03:40:58,720
amongst all the businesses there.
There's also some concern on the street

2249
03:40:57,040 --> 03:41:04,080
as expressed in the many emails that we
got um that the streets targeted in the

2250
03:41:01,920 --> 03:41:09,359
report are not comprehensive enough and
we sort of quote left some out. Uh but

2251
03:41:06,399 --> 03:41:12,960
that list is not fixed and is easily
amendable you know one way or the other.

2252
03:41:11,600 --> 03:41:16,880
So I just want to mention those before
public comment. So the desired outcome

2253
03:41:14,720 --> 03:41:23,760
tonight is simply uh direction to staff
on what direction our seven folks want

2254
03:41:20,160 --> 03:41:28,560
to go. Uh we can vote on proposal that's
here. we can vote on new items. We can

2255
03:41:25,840 --> 03:41:32,239
send stuff back to the ad hoc. Uh so
that's the overview and uh we'll chat

2256
03:41:30,560 --> 03:41:36,960
again back to the mayor.
>> All right. Thank you. And with that, I'm

2257
03:41:34,000 --> 03:41:40,880
going to turn to staff and uh to the
city manager.

2258
03:41:37,920 --> 03:41:45,760
» Sure. Thank you uh mayor and members of
council in particular the ad hoc uh

2259
03:41:43,040 --> 03:41:49,920
committee. Uh as noted, ad hoc committee
has spent extraordinary time uh working

2260
03:41:48,160 --> 03:41:55,279
with staff as well as doing direct
outreach uh as was noted with uh uh

2261
03:41:53,120 --> 03:42:00,160
community members as well as our
regional uh partners and those that we

2262
03:41:57,359 --> 03:42:05,600
hope to become regional partners with.
uh in particular just want to note uh

2263
03:42:02,720 --> 03:42:13,840
that uh in wrestling with this topic the
ad hoc committee has has clearly uh uh

2264
03:42:09,359 --> 03:42:18,720
expressed uh the uh recognition of the
difficulty of the issue and uh also

2265
03:42:17,040 --> 03:42:22,160
wrestling with the lack of a permanent
solution or even necessarily

2266
03:42:20,640 --> 03:42:26,880
straightforward solutions given the
complexity of the issue. Uh so as such

2267
03:42:24,880 --> 03:42:32,720
uh what you'll hear from staff tonight
uh is uh very specifically not intended

2268
03:42:29,840 --> 03:42:38,399
to be a permanent solution um but is
reflective of the incremental next steps

2269
03:42:35,279 --> 03:42:43,439
uh to as uh chair Lowing pointed out
restrict uh OSV parking while also

2270
03:42:41,279 --> 03:42:48,080
providing capacity to meet identified
needs. Uh we also expect that we'll be

2271
03:42:45,600 --> 03:42:53,359
able to speak to uh some of the perhaps
misunderstandings uh that we've heard in

2272
03:42:51,200 --> 03:42:57,760
uh some of the uh comments received
including uh experiences of other

2273
03:42:55,760 --> 03:43:03,680
communities. So with that, let me ask
our assistant city manager Melissa

2274
03:43:00,399 --> 03:43:09,479
Mcdana uh to walk through our uh
overview of the item tonight and look

2275
03:43:05,920 --> 03:43:09,479
forward to your discussion.

2276
03:43:10,080 --> 03:43:17,199
» Thank you. U Melissa Mcdana, assistant
to the city manager. Uh as as you've

2277
03:43:15,279 --> 03:43:22,960
heard already this evening, homelessness
and vehicle habitation continue to

2278
03:43:19,520 --> 03:43:27,840
present complex policy operational and
community impacts in Palo Alto. Uh

2279
03:43:26,080 --> 03:43:33,359
tonight's item presents recommendations
to launch two coordinated pilots. We

2280
03:43:31,439 --> 03:43:38,080
recognize these are not ideal solutions
to this complex issue, but have found a

2281
03:43:35,439 --> 03:43:42,279
way to address and reduce uh the impacts
in our city. Next slide.

2282
03:43:42,479 --> 03:43:49,840
since policy and services direction on a
phased approach in August of last year

2283
03:43:47,199 --> 03:43:55,439
through council creation of the ad hoc
and the approval and launch of phase one

2284
03:43:52,239 --> 03:44:00,880
in October of last year. We've continued
to move this work forward. Um this

2285
03:43:58,479 --> 03:44:05,680
January the ad hoc and staff engaged
with the community at an openhouse

2286
03:44:03,439 --> 03:44:11,359
followed by a council study session in
February and an update report in June.

2287
03:44:09,439 --> 03:44:16,880
Through phase one, we learned that
focused cleaning, signage, enforcement,

2288
03:44:14,479 --> 03:44:21,760
and service connections can improve
conditions in specific locations.

2289
03:44:20,000 --> 03:44:25,520
The proposed pilots developed and
refined by the ad hoc apply those

2290
03:44:23,760 --> 03:44:30,439
lessons through a more structured and
measurable approach. Next slide.

2291
03:44:31,199 --> 03:44:38,160
The city has created new ordinances to
prohibit vanlording and to prohibit the

2292
03:44:36,080 --> 03:44:43,600
parking of detached trailers and
inoperable vehicles and public streets.

2293
03:44:40,479 --> 03:44:48,239
Uh as part of phase one, there also have
been increased enforcement efforts,

2294
03:44:45,760 --> 03:44:53,439
added street sweeping and cleanings to
18 identified impacted streets, and

2295
03:44:51,359 --> 03:44:58,640
explored approaches such as safe parking
expansion and OSV buyback and storage

2296
03:44:57,120 --> 03:45:03,439
programs.
At the same time, the city continues to

2297
03:45:00,960 --> 03:45:08,720
prioritize expansion of off- streetet
safe parking. We know that a stable

2298
03:45:06,720 --> 03:45:14,160
service connected setting can support
participant well-being by reducing the

2299
03:45:11,120 --> 03:45:18,160
uncertainty of frequent relocation and
by improving access to housing

2300
03:45:15,840 --> 03:45:23,359
navigation, case management, and health
and mental health supports. The city has

2301
03:45:21,279 --> 03:45:28,479
also engaged county officials to support
a more unified regional response as

2302
03:45:25,359 --> 03:45:33,040
Chair Lowing mentioned. And uh the city
continues to invite commercial property

2303
03:45:30,479 --> 03:45:36,800
owners to the table to discuss utilizing
vacant lots as potential safe parking

2304
03:45:35,199 --> 03:45:42,319
sites.
Safe parking remains an important

2305
03:45:39,279 --> 03:45:48,800
long-term strategy, but expansion is
constrained by available land funding,

2306
03:45:45,520 --> 03:45:53,040
site operations, and service needs. The
pilots proposed this evening are

2307
03:45:50,399 --> 03:45:56,960
intended to complement, not replace
those efforts by providing near-term

2308
03:45:55,120 --> 03:46:00,640
targeted options while the city
continues pursuing additional off-

2309
03:45:58,640 --> 03:46:05,040
streetet capacity.
And finally, we we also in phase one

2310
03:46:03,040 --> 03:46:09,760
have met and continue to meet regularly
with other cities and jurisdictions to

2311
03:46:07,199 --> 03:46:17,000
share information, problem solve, and
look for ways to work together to

2312
03:46:11,920 --> 03:46:17,000
address this complex issue. Next slide.

2313
03:46:17,120 --> 03:46:24,000
The recommendations before you this
evening are to launch two 12-month pilot

2314
03:46:21,439 --> 03:46:28,640
programs and approve related ordinances,
resolutions, and budget amendments.

2315
03:46:26,640 --> 03:46:33,040
Together, these are intended to address
a more structured to address ongoing

2316
03:46:31,520 --> 03:46:37,199
neighborhood business, public health,
and safety impacts while providing a

2317
03:46:35,199 --> 03:46:43,279
more structured and humane response for
people living in oversized vehicles. The

2318
03:46:40,640 --> 03:46:47,920
pilots are a cost-effective way to test
targeted parking management and service

2319
03:46:45,279 --> 03:46:53,279
delivery before considering a broader
citywide approach. The total pilot cost

2320
03:46:51,279 --> 03:46:56,279
is estimated at approximately
$823,000800.

2321
03:46:57,040 --> 03:47:05,040
Staff would return to council in March
and September 27 with status reports and

2322
03:47:02,239 --> 03:47:11,199
recommendations regarding continuation,
modification, expansion, or termination.

2323
03:47:08,239 --> 03:47:11,199
Next slide.

2324
03:47:12,239 --> 03:47:19,840
The first of the two pilots, the
oversized vehicle parking permit pilot

2325
03:47:17,439 --> 03:47:24,800
would create designated permit areas on
the city managed side of Coyote Hill

2326
03:47:21,760 --> 03:47:31,199
Road and on Embaradero Road near the
wastewater treatment plant with capacity

2327
03:47:27,439 --> 03:47:36,000
for approximately 37 oversized vehicles.
Through negotiations with the county, we

2328
03:47:33,359 --> 03:47:41,439
may be able to switch the Coyote Hill
area to the county side. For Embaradero

2329
03:47:39,120 --> 03:47:46,880
Road, we would deploy restriping to
create space for permitted vehicles to

2330
03:47:43,439 --> 03:47:52,800
park while retaining the bike lane. This
pilot is not intended to serve every

2331
03:47:49,600 --> 03:47:56,800
person living in an oversized vehicle.
It is designed for individuals and

2332
03:47:54,880 --> 03:48:01,279
families who are ready to work towards
stable permanent housing and can benefit

2333
03:47:59,439 --> 03:48:06,239
from a structured service connected
setting during that transition.

2334
03:48:04,399 --> 03:48:11,199
The path to permanent housing is often
not linear and can take time. By

2335
03:48:09,199 --> 03:48:15,520
providing a designated safer place to
park, the pilot can help participants

2336
03:48:13,120 --> 03:48:19,680
focus on working with staff, accessing
needed services, and building the

2337
03:48:17,199 --> 03:48:25,439
foundation for a successful transition
to stable housing.

2338
03:48:22,880 --> 03:48:29,199
Staff will also uh as part of this pilot
communicate with adjacent businesses and

2339
03:48:27,279 --> 03:48:32,800
property owners as well as current
oversized vehicle dwellers as the sites

2340
03:48:31,279 --> 03:48:39,120
are prepared and the program is
implemented. An estimated firstear cost

2341
03:48:36,640 --> 03:48:44,319
of $400,800.
This pilot allows the city to test a

2342
03:48:41,120 --> 03:48:48,239
targeted alternative to more costly off-
streetet safe parking expansion which is

2343
03:48:46,800 --> 03:48:54,479
as I mentioned constrained by
availability and cost. Next slide.

2344
03:48:52,479 --> 03:48:59,199
To be eligible to participate in the
permit pilot, uh, oversized vehicle

2345
03:48:57,279 --> 03:49:03,359
dwellers will need to meet a set of
requirements to participate. These

2346
03:49:01,760 --> 03:49:08,399
requirements establish clear
expectations for safe and responsible

2347
03:49:05,760 --> 03:49:12,160
participation while keeping participants
housing focused.

2348
03:49:10,560 --> 03:49:17,359
Participants will need to have a valid
registration, active insurance, agree to

2349
03:49:14,880 --> 03:49:21,600
sign a good neighbor agreement, agree to
engage with outreach workers to receive

2350
03:49:19,439 --> 03:49:28,319
support in transitioning into permanent
housing, have connections to PaloAlto,

2351
03:49:24,880 --> 03:49:34,160
be income eligible, and be able to pay a
$15 per month permit fee. This modest

2352
03:49:32,000 --> 03:49:39,840
permit fee is intended to support an
administraable program while maintaining

2353
03:49:36,560 --> 03:49:43,080
affordability for eligible households.
Next slide.

2354
03:49:43,439 --> 03:49:50,560
» While the permit pilot is directed at
supporting those who are wanting to

2355
03:49:47,680 --> 03:49:56,319
transition into permanent housing, the
parking prohibition pilot is designed to

2356
03:49:54,080 --> 03:50:02,640
help reduce the count of oversized
vehicles on heavily impacted streets.

2357
03:50:00,000 --> 03:50:06,720
This pilot would prohibit oversized
vehicle parking on one side of

2358
03:50:04,560 --> 03:50:13,120
identified streets for 6 months, then
alternate to the other side for the next

2359
03:50:08,800 --> 03:50:19,120
6 months. All existing regulations,
including 72-hour limits, phase one

2360
03:50:16,720 --> 03:50:26,319
street sweeping restrictions, the van
lording ban, and the ban on detached

2361
03:50:21,359 --> 03:50:31,600
trailers would remain in effect.
Passenger vehicles may continue parking

2362
03:50:28,399 --> 03:50:35,279
on both sides year round.
Staff will provide advanced notice and

2363
03:50:33,680 --> 03:50:39,439
communicate directly with affected
businesses, adjacent property owners,

2364
03:50:37,600 --> 03:50:44,399
neighborhoods, and oversized vehicle
dwellers. Feedback from residents and

2365
03:50:42,160 --> 03:50:49,920
businesses along with calls for service,
complaints, warnings, and citations will

2366
03:50:47,120 --> 03:50:55,600
help us evaluate this pilot. An
estimated firstear cost of $423,000.

2367
03:50:53,520 --> 03:50:59,760
This this pilot provides a lowerc cost
opportunity to test operational

2368
03:50:57,520 --> 03:51:05,319
effectiveness and refine the approach
before considering something broader.

2369
03:51:02,080 --> 03:51:05,319
Next slide.

2370
03:51:05,439 --> 03:51:12,880
On this slide, you can see all of the
streets that will receive red tips as

2371
03:51:10,160 --> 03:51:18,319
part of the second pilot. In blue are
the street segments included in the

2372
03:51:14,800 --> 03:51:23,120
alternating sides parking prohibition.
We know this is not a perfect list. It

2373
03:51:21,040 --> 03:51:28,399
is a preliminary list intended to
address impacted non-residential street

2374
03:51:25,439 --> 03:51:32,800
segments first identified in phase one
and we will be rep uh refining it

2375
03:51:30,479 --> 03:51:36,800
through confirming locations and uses as
well as outreach to neighbors and

2376
03:51:34,640 --> 03:51:40,040
property owners.
Next slide.

2377
03:51:40,160 --> 03:51:48,479
Um here you see a cost overview for the
pilots. This is an updated cost table in

2378
03:51:46,960 --> 03:51:54,080
the staff report. This table
inadvertently omits that top row where

2379
03:51:51,279 --> 03:51:59,199
it starts with the word site amenities.
However, all of the totals in the table

2380
03:51:56,560 --> 03:52:04,399
were correct in the staff report. We can
refer back to this slide if there are

2381
03:52:00,880 --> 03:52:10,000
questions relating to costs.
Next slide. And I'd like to thank you. I

2382
03:52:07,760 --> 03:52:15,520
know that was a lot of information uh
spoken very quickly. And I would now

2383
03:52:13,040 --> 03:52:21,199
like to seed the floor over to the city
attorney for some legal context.

2384
03:52:19,120 --> 03:52:26,239
» Yes. Uh thank you uh mayor, council
members. So I'll just I just want to

2385
03:52:22,960 --> 03:52:30,880
briefly address uh the current legal
environment in which this discussion is

2386
03:52:28,399 --> 03:52:35,920
taking place. So, I I think you're all
aware that the Supreme Court's US

2387
03:52:33,040 --> 03:52:42,160
Supreme Court's decision in Grants Pass
um did change the landscape in this area

2388
03:52:38,640 --> 03:52:46,319
and did limit the city's obligation to
provide shelter really, you know, almost

2389
03:52:44,160 --> 03:52:51,920
whenever it displaces an unsheltered
resident. Um you know, that said, um

2390
03:52:49,439 --> 03:52:57,279
there are still legal obligations uh
that the city has when it is managing

2391
03:52:54,399 --> 03:53:02,239
its unsheltered population. Um and and
some of those obligations are the you

2392
03:52:59,279 --> 03:53:07,840
know subject of current litigation in
this district uh in the in the ninth

2393
03:53:04,880 --> 03:53:14,399
circuit. Uh and so that litigation does
create some uncertainty as to how uh the

2394
03:53:11,279 --> 03:53:19,199
city manages the situation. And you
know, while

2395
03:53:16,160 --> 03:53:23,920
I don't and I don't necessarily agree
with uh the theories that plaintiffs are

2396
03:53:21,600 --> 03:53:29,520
advancing in these cases, I think it's
my council should keep that uncertainty

2397
03:53:26,000 --> 03:53:35,199
in in mind. And you know, one real risk
is that the city winds up in a situation

2398
03:53:32,399 --> 03:53:40,640
where it's the court and not necessarily
this council or this community that

2399
03:53:36,880 --> 03:53:45,760
decides how we uh regulate people living
in vehicles in public spaces. And so

2400
03:53:43,359 --> 03:53:50,080
that's I think something that you know
you know our advice as staff is is we're

2401
03:53:48,239 --> 03:53:56,239
mindful of that risk and mindful of
avoiding it. Uh you know another thing I

2402
03:53:53,120 --> 03:54:01,920
think to think about is that the results
from the the steps that you took last

2403
03:53:58,720 --> 03:54:07,439
year I think do show meaningful
reduction in in impact of OSVs in the

2404
03:54:05,040 --> 03:54:11,520
streets. And so I mean one thing to
consider is whether you know additional

2405
03:54:09,680 --> 03:54:16,640
incremental steps will continue to show
that impact. Um that's not to foreclose

2406
03:54:14,560 --> 03:54:21,120
you know any option that council could
consider. I think it's just one of the

2407
03:54:19,279 --> 03:54:24,720
many factors that you need to consider
in addressing what I I think we all

2408
03:54:23,199 --> 03:54:27,720
acknowledge is a really difficult
problem.

2409
03:54:30,160 --> 03:54:37,680
» All right. Thank you staff. Um,
and with that, I'm going to bring it

2410
03:54:34,800 --> 03:54:41,120
back to the deis. Um, but first to the
ad hoc to see if you have any further

2411
03:54:39,520 --> 03:54:44,160
comments and and the other members of
the ad hoc have anything they'd like to

2412
03:54:42,560 --> 03:54:46,160
say preliminarily and then the rest of
us can

2413
03:54:44,640 --> 03:54:50,880
» Well, [clears throat] yes. I think at
this point we want to talk about the

2414
03:54:47,600 --> 03:54:54,000
specific two pilots and give uh three
different opinions on that. Not

2415
03:54:52,560 --> 03:54:56,479
necessarily different, but three people
speaking on it.

2416
03:54:55,762 --> 03:55:02,479
[clears throat and cough]
Excuse me. So speaking first to what's

2417
03:54:59,120 --> 03:55:09,840
called pilot one. Uh that's where we're
creating um a structure um a game plan

2418
03:55:07,120 --> 03:55:14,880
uh regulations and targeting that
specifically to incomequalified folks so

2419
03:55:12,560 --> 03:55:20,640
that we know that these are what I'll
call legitimate uh folks that are not

2420
03:55:17,840 --> 03:55:24,479
just hanging around town but are here
for reasons that they can't afford it

2421
03:55:22,560 --> 03:55:31,199
and so on. So I think the structure of
that is good and I think the direction

2422
03:55:26,640 --> 03:55:34,239
that that is there is is also good. Um
because we have a lot of latitude

2423
03:55:32,880 --> 03:55:38,319
including if they don't follow the
rules, they're very quickly gone and

2424
03:55:36,160 --> 03:55:41,840
that's totally in our control. So they
have to be good neighbors. They have to

2425
03:55:40,080 --> 03:55:47,680
not have stuff in the front, they have
to take care of themselves in terms of

2426
03:55:43,680 --> 03:55:50,560
the uh um um waste, getting rid of waste
and all that stuff. And and we're in

2427
03:55:49,359 --> 03:55:54,399
control of that. So there's a good
control and most importantly they have

2428
03:55:52,640 --> 03:55:59,439
to say yes I want to get into permanent
housing. So these are transitional

2429
03:55:56,399 --> 03:56:04,800
therefore these the original idea is the
37 units. Uh they're not going to be

2430
03:56:02,479 --> 03:56:07,680
living in those 37 units for 5 years.
They're going to be transitioning to

2431
03:56:06,000 --> 03:56:10,880
housing. So that's the that's the goal.
That's the intent and everybody signed

2432
03:56:08,960 --> 03:56:16,960
up for the same thing. So I think that
one is is is on point. By the way, none

2433
03:56:14,000 --> 03:56:20,560
of these uh new units are in uh South
Palo Alto. Uh so that was another

2434
03:56:19,120 --> 03:56:26,800
concern that we got from some some
residents in terms of where OSVS are

2435
03:56:23,120 --> 03:56:30,960
right now. Um I think the schedule is uh
for implementation is is sorry to say

2436
03:56:29,120 --> 03:56:35,600
way off. We just have to do that a lot
faster because we have this problem

2437
03:56:33,359 --> 03:56:39,199
that's been festering for years and we
have made good progress but it's not

2438
03:56:37,040 --> 03:56:44,319
enough relative to where we need to be.
So that has to be trimmed up. Um I think

2439
03:56:42,319 --> 03:56:50,399
there's some details that have to be
looked at. Is it a $15 fee or a $50 fee?

2440
03:56:48,640 --> 03:56:54,319
You know, that could be chatted about.
Um, I think we should be very specific

2441
03:56:52,000 --> 03:56:59,199
about which kind of income folks that
we're looking for. I mean, do we want to

2442
03:56:55,680 --> 03:57:02,160
try to get to, you know, 80% AMI and
under? Do we want to get that specific

2443
03:57:00,560 --> 03:57:04,960
or not? But whatever it is, it may not
have to be in the ordinance, but it

2444
03:57:03,600 --> 03:57:09,040
should definitely be in the program so
everybody knows that what we're what

2445
03:57:06,160 --> 03:57:13,120
we're signing up for. Um, I think that's
on point. And then, you know, this also

2446
03:57:11,520 --> 03:57:18,239
is not fixed in stone that it's only
going to be 37. uh if it works and we're

2447
03:57:16,080 --> 03:57:23,040
getting good transition and andor we
need more spaces um I think that could

2448
03:57:20,399 --> 03:57:27,778
be easily ruled out.
Now speaking about pilot number two

2449
03:57:25,759 --> 03:57:27,778
[clears throat]

2450
03:57:28,880 --> 03:57:38,000
once again uh that schedule is um too
slow for initial roll out um and I don't

2451
03:57:35,760 --> 03:57:43,279
think we actually need any more outreach
to businesses. Um, if you want outreach,

2452
03:57:41,359 --> 03:57:47,520
here it is, including the approximately
200 emails we got uh [snorts] in the

2453
03:57:45,199 --> 03:57:51,920
last uh week and a half. Um, I always
stay up to speed on my on my city email.

2454
03:57:49,920 --> 03:57:56,080
When I walked in here today, I had 75
more emails. So, we understand that this

2455
03:57:54,399 --> 03:58:00,880
is touching nerves and we need to take
action on that. Um,

2456
03:57:59,359 --> 03:58:06,160
I think one of the things that it says
in the success criteria for the pilot is

2457
03:58:03,760 --> 03:58:10,720
that um we want to get fewer business
complaints. Well, of course, but that's

2458
03:58:07,760 --> 03:58:16,319
not really the criteria. Uh the criteria
is is there a radical reduction in the

2459
03:58:13,199 --> 03:58:22,640
number of OSVs that are not in uh the
permitted parking area? [clears throat]

2460
03:58:18,960 --> 03:58:29,600
But here's a really critical point.
Right now, there aren't any ordinances

2461
03:58:25,279 --> 03:58:35,600
that we have that can control incoming
vehicles to our town or if we, for

2462
03:58:32,880 --> 03:58:40,960
example, remove these whatever it's
going to be 60 or 65 people in the

2463
03:58:37,760 --> 03:58:46,640
impacted areas, uh there's no way we
control spillover of those folks going

2464
03:58:44,319 --> 03:58:50,560
to another neighborhood.
Now, you could say that's okay because

2465
03:58:47,920 --> 03:58:55,120
at least it's relieving the folks in the
uh affected neighborhoods that have been

2466
03:58:51,920 --> 03:58:58,479
suffering for years. Um, but if we're
just moving it to another part of town,

2467
03:58:56,960 --> 03:59:03,279
we haven't really fundamentally
addressed the issue. Just moves moves

2468
03:59:01,040 --> 03:59:09,600
the problem down the street. So, I think
ultimately the only way to address this

2469
03:59:05,680 --> 03:59:15,199
is to have all OSVs in permitted
parking. So, we now have we're creating

2470
03:59:12,399 --> 03:59:20,479
this permanent parking district one or
whatever it's going to be what we just

2471
03:59:17,359 --> 03:59:25,040
talked about in pilot one
and that can that can roll out gradually

2472
03:59:22,960 --> 03:59:32,319
as needed and as available but we could
also do other we should do other uh

2473
03:59:28,960 --> 03:59:38,720
parking programs to
have OSVs otherwise they just can't park

2474
03:59:35,120 --> 03:59:43,600
here. So, it's OSVs
in a parking permit or else there's no

2475
03:59:41,346 --> 03:59:49,680
[snorts] parking. That puts a cap at the
top and it keeps uh the spillage from

2476
03:59:47,840 --> 03:59:54,880
happening.
Signage for the law I think should be

2477
03:59:52,800 --> 03:59:58,720
placed like a number of uh resident
businesses have written in at the

2478
03:59:56,640 --> 04:00:02,800
primary entrances to the city which is
currently allowed by uh state law

2479
04:00:01,199 --> 04:00:07,680
followed up by first time warning
notices placed on the vehicle if they're

2480
04:00:04,720 --> 04:00:12,000
in a parked illegally. Um we're not
going to spend $4 million on sign signs

2481
04:00:09,760 --> 04:00:17,439
around the the city. That really makes
no sense to me. Um, and I think that's

2482
04:00:15,040 --> 04:00:21,760
sufficient legal coverage
through the entrance signs, the word of

2483
04:00:19,680 --> 04:00:26,720
mouth, and warning notices on parking
violators. I think this will be a

2484
04:00:23,600 --> 04:00:33,040
well-known law in our city. Now, the
issue is, can we find enough parking

2485
04:00:30,640 --> 04:00:37,840
spots for the displaced folks even in
this half side of the street that we're

2486
04:00:35,120 --> 04:00:41,680
talking about in the impacted areas? And
and there it comes down to sequencing

2487
04:00:39,359 --> 04:00:48,160
and timing. But I think we need to move
very fast to eliminate all that um

2488
04:00:45,359 --> 04:00:53,680
illegal parking in the impacted areas.
And the way to do that is to get to a

2489
04:00:50,560 --> 04:00:56,800
broader concept of permitted parking.
There are there are other options and I

2490
04:00:55,040 --> 04:01:01,279
think other council members on the ad
hoc will talk about that. Um one of them

2491
04:00:59,680 --> 04:01:06,640
that's been discussed before is we could
also um reduce the 72-hour rule and go

2492
04:01:04,880 --> 04:01:11,120
down to 24 hours.
um that's not going to be magical and

2493
04:01:09,359 --> 04:01:15,279
wonderful for the police staff to be
able to instantly cover that, but as a

2494
04:01:13,279 --> 04:01:19,760
deterrent, it could tell people that if
you come to town, you're going to be

2495
04:01:16,800 --> 04:01:27,439
changing your position every day, not
just every 3 days. Um so I would hope

2496
04:01:23,359 --> 04:01:30,720
that that would be a a a deterrent. Um
you know, we don't catch every speeder,

2497
04:01:28,800 --> 04:01:36,479
but we have up speed limits uh as a
deterrent. So that's another option. And

2498
04:01:33,760 --> 04:01:39,720
uh at this point I'll pass it over to my
next colleague.

2499
04:01:44,800 --> 04:01:52,399
Yeah, we realize the city is frustrated.
We're frustrated with OSVs. I mean, this

2500
04:01:49,840 --> 04:01:57,840
is a really hard problem and our legal
constraints make it even harder. And so

2501
04:01:54,479 --> 04:02:01,359
we've been struggling to find uh what
action should we be taking. Now phase

2502
04:01:59,760 --> 04:02:05,600
one I thought was very successful.
public works and PAPD really went

2503
04:02:03,359 --> 04:02:12,080
through and we cleaned up there were
streets that hadn't been swept there for

2504
04:02:07,760 --> 04:02:17,359
20 years. It was a long time and so uh
that cleaned up the streets. It uh it

2505
04:02:15,359 --> 04:02:21,840
ended up reducing the number the
population but now what we're worried

2506
04:02:19,520 --> 04:02:26,479
about is that we've reduced the number
of RVs on our streets. Will someone come

2507
04:02:24,080 --> 04:02:30,319
in and fill that vacuum? Will RVs from
Redwood City if Belmont come down and

2508
04:02:28,880 --> 04:02:35,120
start parking? and there's nothing
that's capping the the population

2509
04:02:32,560 --> 04:02:39,600
preventing from going back up to 220.
That made us very nervous. And that's

2510
04:02:36,640 --> 04:02:44,399
why we're looking at this second uh
pilot where you do one side of the

2511
04:02:41,920 --> 04:02:49,600
street. And by we we roughly will take
half the RV parking spots in the city

2512
04:02:47,279 --> 04:02:54,800
and get rid of them. And that's trying
to keep that upper level from growing.

2513
04:02:51,840 --> 04:02:58,399
We we don't want the RV population to
grow. And I thought we think that's

2514
04:02:56,080 --> 04:03:01,840
really critical. And we're not
increasing parking at all. We're

2515
04:02:59,840 --> 04:03:06,960
decreasing it. Half the parking spaces
go away. And this is, as the council

2516
04:03:04,720 --> 04:03:10,239
member Law said, this is not permanent.
This is meant to be a stop gap just to

2517
04:03:08,640 --> 04:03:15,120
protect us right now because right now
there's a vacuum. We've reduced the RV

2518
04:03:12,880 --> 04:03:22,720
population and that could change and we
don't want we don't want it to change.

2519
04:03:18,560 --> 04:03:27,520
Uh so
uh so then what what's our next steps?

2520
04:03:24,720 --> 04:03:31,760
what how can you know now that if we do
implement this one side of the street

2521
04:03:29,120 --> 04:03:34,960
we've temporarily
protected the community but what's our

2522
04:03:33,439 --> 04:03:43,120
long-term goal how can we get out of
this well one thing we can do is right

2523
04:03:39,120 --> 04:03:48,319
now um residential areas do not allow RV
parking but there's some areas around

2524
04:03:45,760 --> 04:03:53,120
town that technically aren't residential
for example uh if you have a PC zone

2525
04:03:51,040 --> 04:03:57,120
that's not considered residential so
along Fabian there along like JCC, those

2526
04:03:55,439 --> 04:04:02,319
are homes and they don't get the same
protection that we get in other areas.

2527
04:03:59,760 --> 04:04:06,800
Uh in North Ventura, there's mixed use.
They don't get the same protection. Uh

2528
04:04:04,560 --> 04:04:11,359
East Meadow, same story. There's a lot
of areas where there's a lot of RVs and

2529
04:04:09,040 --> 04:04:14,560
they really are residential and we don't
give them the same protection that we

2530
04:04:12,880 --> 04:04:18,720
give the rest of the community and
that's just unfair and we need to

2531
04:04:16,239 --> 04:04:23,199
address that and make a more uniform
policy towards the residential areas.

2532
04:04:21,680 --> 04:04:27,120
The second thing is in the commercial
areas. There's some areas where the

2533
04:04:25,199 --> 04:04:31,439
people who come have to park three, four
blocks away just because there's so many

2534
04:04:28,720 --> 04:04:36,399
RVs clogging up or customers coming to
the to the businesses and they can't

2535
04:04:33,680 --> 04:04:40,479
park. And so one possibility is that we
do in the residential areas, we have

2536
04:04:38,399 --> 04:04:45,680
residential parking permits. If you go
around and get half the signatures, half

2537
04:04:42,720 --> 04:04:49,760
the people sign the signature, then we
institute a residential parking permit.

2538
04:04:48,640 --> 04:04:55,920
So we could do the same thing in the
businesses. half the businesses in an

2539
04:04:51,439 --> 04:05:02,399
area sign the petition. We could have a
business parking permit. And that means

2540
04:04:58,800 --> 04:05:06,239
that anyone, say a customer comes, they
can park two hours in front of your

2541
04:05:04,479 --> 04:05:10,399
business. But anyone who's doing
longerterm parking, they need a permit.

2542
04:05:08,560 --> 04:05:15,040
And those permits are only issued
through businesses in those areas. And

2543
04:05:12,640 --> 04:05:19,520
so now that parking in that area would
be there to serve the businesses, not to

2544
04:05:17,199 --> 04:05:23,840
serve the RVs. And that would be one way
to relatively quickly mitigate those

2545
04:05:22,080 --> 04:05:28,239
parking impacts that the RVs are having
in those neighborhoods.

2546
04:05:26,160 --> 04:05:33,600
But in the long run, we still have these
RVs and if we're just shuffling them

2547
04:05:31,520 --> 04:05:37,279
around, as council member Lowing said,
they're not solving the problem. and

2548
04:05:35,439 --> 04:05:41,520
safe parking, whether it's down at
Moffett we're looking at, or uh if we

2549
04:05:39,680 --> 04:05:47,040
can expand other areas in the city and
have more safe parking, and so we can

2550
04:05:44,319 --> 04:05:51,199
transition these RVs off the street and
into a place where they're not bothering

2551
04:05:49,279 --> 04:05:56,560
us and we're not bothering them. We're
not chasing them around the city, that

2552
04:05:52,720 --> 04:06:00,720
they can they can uh have a more secure
life on the street. That's good for

2553
04:05:58,720 --> 04:06:05,439
everybody. And that's a challenge
because we don't have a lot of spare uh

2554
04:06:03,199 --> 04:06:10,160
space in the in the city. But that's
something that we can strive for. That

2555
04:06:06,880 --> 04:06:13,439
is as long as we can cap the RVs. We're
not trying to recruit more people. We're

2556
04:06:11,920 --> 04:06:19,760
trying to get rid of the RVs that are on
on the street right now. That that's a

2557
04:06:16,319 --> 04:06:24,640
very good option. And every time you get
someone off the street and into sedable

2558
04:06:21,840 --> 04:06:28,880
parking or safe parking, that takes
pressure off those neighborhoods. And it

2559
04:06:26,720 --> 04:06:34,160
also allows us from a legal constraint
is we can have more constrained parking

2560
04:06:31,760 --> 04:06:40,560
limitations. And so it helps everybody
if we can find more safe parking. So

2561
04:06:38,000 --> 04:06:44,120
I'll move it on. Julie, do you want to
council member Ladines?

2562
04:06:46,560 --> 04:06:52,960
» I think we're trying to share some
overview thoughts here. We're not uh I

2563
04:06:51,199 --> 04:06:56,960
have some specific questions for staff.
I wonder are we going to we're going to

2564
04:06:55,120 --> 04:06:59,600
get to our council or our council
questions once I'm done then you'll open

2565
04:06:58,720 --> 04:07:02,560
up to everybody else.
>> Yeah. And if you want to start and ask

2566
04:07:00,960 --> 04:07:06,319
questions I would say go ahead because I
was going to then let us all talk and

2567
04:07:04,160 --> 04:07:09,840
then hear from Thank you.
>> Um

2568
04:07:07,920 --> 04:07:15,199
well to add to what my colleagues on the
ad hoc had said and it has been uh

2569
04:07:13,301 --> 04:07:20,800
[snorts] in my four years I have not
ever been on a committee that has had

2570
04:07:17,199 --> 04:07:23,680
this much work about it. Um, and I've
been on a lot of committees that have

2571
04:07:22,239 --> 04:07:28,239
had a lot of work. So, this has been
intense. And as the city manager has

2572
04:07:26,319 --> 04:07:33,760
said at the outset and has reminded us,
this is we're we're attempting to do our

2573
04:07:32,399 --> 04:07:37,920
part to address one of the most
seemingly intractable issues of our

2574
04:07:35,439 --> 04:07:45,840
time, which is the fact of homelessness
and which in Peloto made 73% of our

2575
04:07:41,600 --> 04:07:50,319
unhoused live in vehicles. So, um,
there's no easy fix.

2576
04:07:48,160 --> 04:07:55,199
Everybody's frustrated.
This has been very hard. U we've heard

2577
04:07:53,120 --> 04:07:59,760
about impacts from my colleagues and I
want to say that this committee has also

2578
04:07:57,279 --> 04:08:03,199
been deeply concerned about the quality
of life lived by people who have no

2579
04:08:02,000 --> 04:08:07,359
better choice than to live in their
vehicles. Asterisk, some people have

2580
04:08:04,960 --> 04:08:10,800
better choices. As council member Lowi
said, some people have homes elsewhere.

2581
04:08:09,199 --> 04:08:14,960
They're choosing to live in a vehicle
here for reasons that make sense to

2582
04:08:12,319 --> 04:08:20,399
them. But we know there is a percentage
of the population who have no other

2583
04:08:17,840 --> 04:08:25,359
shelter than that metal over their head,
which is their car or their RV. And we

2584
04:08:23,359 --> 04:08:30,319
are desperately concerned about the fact
that our society has gotten to this

2585
04:08:27,040 --> 04:08:34,720
point. And we know it's not our fault.
We know that leaders across this region

2586
04:08:32,479 --> 04:08:39,439
and residents and voters across this
region and the nation have made choices

2587
04:08:37,359 --> 04:08:43,359
for some time that have led to these
macroeconomic conditions that are

2588
04:08:41,279 --> 04:08:47,600
causing these impacts
for businesses and residents and for the

2589
04:08:45,520 --> 04:08:53,560
RV dwellers.
Um I want to say that um

2590
04:08:54,319 --> 04:09:03,920
I do have some questions um for staff.
Um, so I I am excited that we have

2591
04:09:01,040 --> 04:09:08,239
gotten to two pilots. Uh, we got a lot
of feedback telling us why we should not

2592
04:09:05,680 --> 04:09:13,120
be excited, that they are not correct.
Um, we worked hard at this, but we are

2593
04:09:11,279 --> 04:09:18,239
ready to hear your feedback and to make
it better. Um,

2594
04:09:16,080 --> 04:09:22,399
I want to be sure people understand
because it was not in the in the packet

2595
04:09:20,239 --> 04:09:26,960
and uh the presentation tonight for
understandable reasons was quick that

2596
04:09:24,880 --> 04:09:33,880
pilot number one, which is the Coyote
Hill and the Embaradero pilot program,

2597
04:09:29,600 --> 04:09:33,880
approximately 37 OSVS,

2598
04:09:34,080 --> 04:09:41,199
offers folks the opportunity to come
into the regulatory environment, come

2599
04:09:39,040 --> 04:09:46,560
come in from the cold, come in from
hiding and running, get a permit,

2600
04:09:44,160 --> 04:09:51,760
give be given permission to park here or
here and pay us a little bit of money

2601
04:09:49,359 --> 04:09:56,880
and in exchange for that based on what
the city's interests are, hygiene,

2602
04:09:53,600 --> 04:10:02,319
trash, sewage, and what those humans
needs are, hygiene, trash, sewage, we're

2603
04:10:00,239 --> 04:10:08,399
going to have a portaotty, we're going
to have a dumpster for the cost of

2604
04:10:05,040 --> 04:10:13,680
$33,000 a year, which is a pretty good
deal. Some may see these as amenities.

2605
04:10:11,439 --> 04:10:19,359
We see it as a win-win. We need those
things. They need those things.

2606
04:10:16,399 --> 04:10:26,479
So, that's an example of what we're
trying to offer both to meet our needs

2607
04:10:22,479 --> 04:10:32,479
and also to make the permit pilot
attractive to people who are currently

2608
04:10:29,359 --> 04:10:36,560
parked elsewhere. Um, there is also a
Margarit stop and a VTA stop near the

2609
04:10:34,800 --> 04:10:43,359
Coyote Hill. I'm less familiar with the
transportation nodes available uh near

2610
04:10:39,359 --> 04:10:48,560
the Embaradero portion. But my point is
in some ways Coyote Hill, out of sight,

2611
04:10:45,439 --> 04:10:51,760
out of mind.
We [clears throat] don't want to push

2612
04:10:50,000 --> 04:10:57,120
people to the edge of society. People
who are working multiple jobs, typically

2613
04:10:54,399 --> 04:11:00,720
workingass or poor,
if they can't get to a bus, if they

2614
04:10:58,560 --> 04:11:04,239
can't get to a train, if they don't have
a vehicle, if they can't get to their

2615
04:11:02,000 --> 04:11:10,319
job. And so we've been trying to pay
attention to that as well. Um my

2616
04:11:08,000 --> 04:11:16,479
question for staff, the number of spots
on Coyote we've said was 20 on our side

2617
04:11:14,479 --> 04:11:20,880
on the part of Coyote that we own, but
you said Miss Mcdana that it may be that

2618
04:11:19,359 --> 04:11:25,199
we're going to swap with the county and
use their portion of Coyote Hill. And if

2619
04:11:23,760 --> 04:11:30,399
we are that far along in our
conversations with them, my question is

2620
04:11:27,600 --> 04:11:34,479
why are we not looking at both? because
that could instantly perhaps double the

2621
04:11:32,239 --> 04:11:39,279
number that we have there.
>> Yeah. Let me uh take the first uh shot

2622
04:11:36,880 --> 04:11:47,520
at response and Miss Madonna and others
may elaborate. Uh as was described, our

2623
04:11:43,600 --> 04:11:53,760
original uh concept for this location
has been to use the county segment

2624
04:11:50,000 --> 04:12:02,399
primarily because that area has existing
sidewalks and existing parking. And so

2625
04:11:57,760 --> 04:12:08,080
for uh the uh purpose of uh providing an
environment that is conducive to placing

2626
04:12:05,840 --> 04:12:12,720
the vehicles for longer periods of time
and placement of the services that

2627
04:12:09,840 --> 04:12:18,560
you've described uh is preferable. The
location under the city's jurisdiction

2628
04:12:15,760 --> 04:12:23,600
uh does not have sidewalks and uh
current would require a restriping from

2629
04:12:20,960 --> 04:12:28,720
four lanes to two lanes in order to
accommodate the proposed on street

2630
04:12:25,600 --> 04:12:34,080
parking. uh that's the reason that the
initial and proposed uh focus or

2631
04:12:31,680 --> 04:12:39,359
priority would be on the county segment
and we have had uh very recent uh uh

2632
04:12:37,199 --> 04:12:44,800
communications with the county that have
uh indicated a path forward for that.

2633
04:12:42,239 --> 04:12:51,520
The other uh consideration has been the
overall capacity to manage uh the case

2634
04:12:49,199 --> 04:12:57,439
management and the services uh that
would be required for the two sites or

2635
04:12:55,279 --> 04:13:03,359
the total of 40 that has been uh
described. If we were to expand it

2636
04:13:00,239 --> 04:13:07,600
conceptually to the order of 60 as uh I
think you're suggesting council member

2637
04:13:05,199 --> 04:13:12,640
we would need to look at our ability to
manage that uh as well as the associated

2638
04:13:10,319 --> 04:13:15,840
resources required to do so. Um but
again if that's an interest of the

2639
04:13:14,239 --> 04:13:18,880
council uh then that would be a next
step for us.

2640
04:13:16,479 --> 04:13:22,560
» So you're saying 60 would be if we add
the county portion plus the city portion

2641
04:13:20,880 --> 04:13:27,920
plus embaradero that's 60
>> correct. Okay. That was my assumption as

2642
04:13:25,680 --> 04:13:30,080
to what you were suggesting. if that's
incorrect. And

2643
04:13:28,640 --> 04:13:34,159
» yeah, no, so you're saying the county is
approximately another 20.

2644
04:13:32,239 --> 04:13:37,120
» I think it's 13 to
>> Okay. Okay. There.

2645
04:13:36,159 --> 04:13:41,920
» It's okay.
>> It's in the ballpark. Thank you for

2646
04:13:39,199 --> 04:13:49,120
that. Um, as we look for additional
spots for permit parking, um, I have had

2647
04:13:46,239 --> 04:13:55,600
the audacity to suggest that maybe the
curb alongside the practice range of the

2648
04:13:52,720 --> 04:13:59,840
golf course might work because there are
no businesses abudding it. there's no

2649
04:13:58,000 --> 04:14:03,040
customers who walk up and have to walk
past and this and that and I have been

2650
04:14:01,439 --> 04:14:06,239
told that that's a sacred cow in this
city and it's a good thing I'm not

2651
04:14:04,880 --> 04:14:10,399
running for re-election because I just
said it. Um and sometimes it takes that

2652
04:14:08,800 --> 04:14:14,479
kind of freedom to say those things and
so I just said it maybe we ought to be

2653
04:14:12,159 --> 04:14:19,920
considering embarcadero alongside the
golf course. Um, I was also surprised by

2654
04:14:18,159 --> 04:14:23,279
the six-month timeline for
implementation, and it may be that we've

2655
04:14:21,840 --> 04:14:28,239
said so many things at the most recent
meeting, and I missed it, but um, I I

2656
04:14:26,159 --> 04:14:33,520
echo Council Member Lowing's concern
about that timeline for implementation,

2657
04:14:31,040 --> 04:14:40,640
hoping it does not take until March to
start this. Um, and with regard to pilot

2658
04:14:36,479 --> 04:14:45,120
2 and our concerns about um about that,
we are deliberately trying to reduce the

2659
04:14:42,880 --> 04:14:49,279
density of OSVs on those impacted
streets by half by saying you may only

2660
04:14:47,120 --> 04:14:54,080
be on one side, whereas right now you
might be on both sides. We are reducing

2661
04:14:52,159 --> 04:15:00,000
that density by half. And it's density
that's the issue. It's not the lone RSV,

2662
04:14:57,040 --> 04:15:03,199
the one OSV one, two, three, right?
Unless you're objectly prejudiced

2663
04:15:01,520 --> 04:15:08,159
against these people, you don't mind if
there's one or two on your street, it's

2664
04:15:05,600 --> 04:15:11,840
the it's the density. And so what we're
trying to do is reduce the density on

2665
04:15:09,680 --> 04:15:15,920
these impacted streets. And we will be
paying attention to spillover and

2666
04:15:13,520 --> 04:15:20,800
figuring out what to do about it once we
see where that's happening. Um so that's

2667
04:15:19,040 --> 04:15:25,600
it for me in terms of clarification and
questions that I wanted to ask at the

2668
04:15:22,159 --> 04:15:29,680
front end. Thank you.
>> All right. Well, I think uh I'm going to

2669
04:15:27,600 --> 04:15:34,720
give the rest of us a chance to ask some
questions, make a a few comments like

2670
04:15:31,600 --> 04:15:38,960
like has gone before here. Um but then I
want to get to all of you who are good

2671
04:15:37,199 --> 04:15:42,640
enough to spend your time with us this
evening and and hear public comment and

2672
04:15:40,800 --> 04:15:49,439
then we'll come back and people can talk
for however long it takes. Um, so I I

2673
04:15:46,640 --> 04:15:54,800
did just want to ask um
I did want to just uh follow up myself

2674
04:15:51,680 --> 04:15:58,399
and first of all um I want to thank uh
the ad hoc because I know you've spent a

2675
04:15:56,880 --> 04:16:02,880
tremendous amount of time. I want to
thank staff that spend a tremendous

2676
04:16:00,000 --> 04:16:07,760
amount of time on this. Um, I agree this
is probably the most intractable problem

2677
04:16:05,199 --> 04:16:11,359
I've seen since I've been on uh council
and uh it's something that we need to

2678
04:16:09,840 --> 04:16:14,560
spend a lot of time and attention
because obviously there is a lot of

2679
04:16:13,040 --> 04:16:19,199
frustration
um out there and uh but I I appreciate

2680
04:16:17,760 --> 04:16:23,880
that the time you've spent and just
wanted to let you know that. Um

2681
04:16:26,399 --> 04:16:33,439
so I was intrigued. I I learned
something tonight from council member

2682
04:16:30,720 --> 04:16:39,120
Rectal. Um because we had understood
that RVs were not allowed in residential

2683
04:16:37,120 --> 04:16:42,640
areas, but there are these areas that
are not technically residential because

2684
04:16:40,800 --> 04:16:47,359
I was wondering why I kept hearing about
them in front of residences. So, I do

2685
04:16:44,800 --> 04:16:54,000
agree that finding a way to make that
uniform is something um that we should

2686
04:16:50,560 --> 04:16:57,600
work on. Um, we've talked the proposal
also talks about not having them across

2687
04:16:55,920 --> 04:17:02,159
from parks, not near corners or
driveways. So, if we were to accomplish

2688
04:17:00,159 --> 04:17:05,840
all of that, we really are talking about
those uh primaril or primarily we're

2689
04:17:04,720 --> 04:17:11,760
talking about those in front of
businesses and around there. And my my

2690
04:17:09,680 --> 04:17:16,560
question,
so as as council member Lowing

2691
04:17:14,239 --> 04:17:22,800
mentioned, there are variety of
different reasons that people live in

2692
04:17:17,840 --> 04:17:27,600
RVs. um if some RV dwellers are Palton
who've fallen into homelessness for a

2693
04:17:25,199 --> 04:17:31,520
variety of reasons and they're what I
would consider the otherwise unhoused.

2694
04:17:29,520 --> 04:17:36,720
In other words, other than the RVs, they
would be unhoused. Um other RV dwellers

2695
04:17:34,960 --> 04:17:42,000
are people who have a primary residence
elsewhere and come here to work so that

2696
04:17:38,880 --> 04:17:47,439
their RV is like a second home. And my
question is, do we have a sense of sort

2697
04:17:45,359 --> 04:17:53,960
of that split? what I would call the
otherwise unhoused and those for whom

2698
04:17:49,439 --> 04:17:53,960
this is a second home.

2699
04:17:57,600 --> 04:18:06,720
» Uh thank you, mayor. I I don't believe
we have that level of detail. Um we we

2700
04:18:03,600 --> 04:18:09,840
just don't. I'm sorry. Because that to
me is they're they're two slightly

2701
04:18:08,319 --> 04:18:15,760
different problems we're trying to solve
for. And so I'm wondering how much

2702
04:18:13,279 --> 04:18:23,960
impact there would be by the respective
solutions to those um because

2703
04:18:20,239 --> 04:18:23,960
the um

2704
04:18:24,000 --> 04:18:30,399
if you're an employer and you're
employing people who drive in here to

2705
04:18:28,080 --> 04:18:35,439
work and you don't pay them enough to
live in a and live near here, then it

2706
04:18:34,319 --> 04:18:39,439
would be interesting to have a
conversation with them about providing

2707
04:18:37,439 --> 04:18:42,720
parking spots on their property or
paying into to a housing fund where

2708
04:18:41,199 --> 04:18:48,479
there were housing vouchers or just
other creative things to address that if

2709
04:18:45,760 --> 04:18:54,479
we could figure out which RVs they were.
So I guess my second question to staff

2710
04:18:50,399 --> 04:18:58,720
would be if we don't know now, can you
imagine a way that we could go and

2711
04:18:56,640 --> 04:19:05,600
figure out figure that out shy of the
permit parking program?

2712
04:19:02,560 --> 04:19:12,319
I do suspect mayor that as has been
described there is really a spectrum and

2713
04:19:08,880 --> 04:19:18,080
even that maybe oversimplifying the the
range of circumstances that we have uh

2714
04:19:15,120 --> 04:19:22,080
and as such you know I think that the
the best way to do what you're

2715
04:19:20,080 --> 04:19:27,920
requesting would be to do some sort of
survey of that and I don't know that we

2716
04:19:25,600 --> 04:19:31,199
have the ability to do that in a way
that's reliable other than you know

2717
04:19:29,760 --> 04:19:39,040
again anecdotally
that I think we we have all seen that

2718
04:19:34,640 --> 04:19:42,800
there are apparently uh vehicles uh and
and

2719
04:19:40,560 --> 04:19:47,520
people that appear to fall into that
category. So I suspect it would be more

2720
04:19:45,199 --> 04:19:52,239
anecdotal than than being able to
quantify it with any reliability.

2721
04:19:50,319 --> 04:19:57,680
» Yeah. No, I appreciate that. It's just
if we could discern um I think different

2722
04:19:55,920 --> 04:20:04,560
legal standards apply to them too
because they wouldn't um otherwise be

2723
04:19:59,760 --> 04:20:10,560
unhoused or unsheltered. Um there it's
just a way to uh deal separately with

2724
04:20:08,880 --> 04:20:16,960
the the problem. So it's something that
I would uh suggest we look a little more

2725
04:20:13,600 --> 04:20:20,920
into. So those were a couple of
questions. Um

2726
04:20:21,520 --> 04:20:29,279
and uh I think I will stop with that
those questions. I I just want to

2727
04:20:26,000 --> 04:20:31,840
observe that if we
it's different because we're when we

2728
04:20:30,640 --> 04:20:35,359
deal with those who are otherwise
unhoused, if they're separated from

2729
04:20:33,359 --> 04:20:38,880
their vehicles, they could end up in
parks, downtown areas, and parking

2730
04:20:37,439 --> 04:20:43,199
garages. That is not a good solution.
So, it's just different ramifications of

2731
04:20:41,439 --> 04:20:45,680
our actions depending on the reasons
that they're in the RVs in the first

2732
04:20:44,560 --> 04:20:50,080
place. Yes.
>> Excuse me, mayor. I just I I do have a

2733
04:20:48,239 --> 04:20:54,960
little bit of context I can provide for
you. Um our out our outreach team has

2734
04:20:53,040 --> 04:20:59,199
tried to get that level of detail, you
know, knocking on uh the doors of RVs

2735
04:20:57,600 --> 04:21:04,800
and developing relationships with folks,
but they've not been able to get get

2736
04:21:01,680 --> 04:21:08,520
that. So we we have tried.
All right. Um

2737
04:21:09,760 --> 04:21:17,760
» he already spoke.
>> Okay. Council member Lou,

2738
04:21:15,359 --> 04:21:23,439
» thank you. just uh a few preliminary
questions and I'll try to keep my time

2739
04:21:19,120 --> 04:21:27,279
brief uh at this stage. Um so initially
we were really uh looking at San

2740
04:21:25,760 --> 04:21:31,520
Francisco and some of what they were
doing with their permit uh program. I

2741
04:21:30,000 --> 04:21:37,199
understand our permit program is quite
different, but I'm wondering if you have

2742
04:21:32,800 --> 04:21:41,279
any color uh or any anecdotes uh or data
that we might not be able to easily get

2743
04:21:39,279 --> 04:21:47,920
on just reading the local news about how
the San Francisco permit program uh may

2744
04:21:44,399 --> 04:21:53,520
be different or may be going.
>> Yeah. Um I I can try to answer that at

2745
04:21:51,120 --> 04:21:57,600
least at a high level. Um I I mean I
guess

2746
04:21:55,359 --> 04:22:00,239
I will start by um you know not trying
to avoid the question but just

2747
04:21:58,800 --> 04:22:03,680
cautioning that sort of different
different

2748
04:22:01,840 --> 04:22:08,239
uh factors influence how programs are
influenced implemented in different

2749
04:22:05,439 --> 04:22:16,560
jurisdictions. Um the San Francisco
program it is um a citywide permit

2750
04:22:12,479 --> 04:22:21,680
program for OSVs. Um it suspends
issuance of new permits. um you know if

2751
04:22:19,359 --> 04:22:27,120
you cannot prove that you resided in a
vehicle in San Francisco after a certain

2752
04:22:24,319 --> 04:22:31,120
date um you know so that but that you
know that suspension is coupled with uh

2753
04:22:29,439 --> 04:22:36,560
you know significant connections to
services uh you know buyback program you

2754
04:22:34,239 --> 04:22:40,960
know other benefits that are intended to
help people who are living on the

2755
04:22:38,800 --> 04:22:46,960
streets um in vehicles get out of
vehicles um you know so um

2756
04:22:45,680 --> 04:22:52,080
you know I think it's quite an
impressive program I One thing to keep

2757
04:22:49,040 --> 04:22:57,439
in mind is San Francisco has a unique
advantage and that that it's both a city

2758
04:22:54,000 --> 04:23:02,080
and a county. So that makes it um you
know there's less coordination with

2759
04:23:00,399 --> 04:23:07,680
other agencies as far as directing
resources to do like do do that. So you

2760
04:23:04,880 --> 04:23:10,720
know it the city obviously has to work
with Santa Clara County and anything

2761
04:23:09,439 --> 04:23:14,479
that we're doing in the provision of
social services.

2762
04:23:12,000 --> 04:23:20,080
» Okay. Thank you. I think a sort of
related question in trying to get to the

2763
04:23:16,159 --> 04:23:26,560
mayor's point about um sort of serving
the most need and uh trying to like

2764
04:23:23,840 --> 04:23:33,040
clarify where the different problem uh
or like sources of need are. Um, in the

2765
04:23:31,040 --> 04:23:42,239
second pilot, did we consider having
some elements of the first pilot, such

2766
04:23:36,319 --> 04:23:47,120
as some uh permit or uh optin to accept
housing? Um, that we have in the first

2767
04:23:45,600 --> 04:23:50,720
pilot, but not the second pilot, because
that seems like that could address some

2768
04:23:48,640 --> 04:23:54,479
of those points that the mayor was
making.

2769
04:23:51,680 --> 04:24:02,560
» Not at this point. Uh at this point the
second pilot's really simply a parking

2770
04:23:57,760 --> 04:24:10,319
regulation and to uh add elements of a
permit does then also require a level of

2771
04:24:06,800 --> 04:24:16,000
uh screening and then management of how
that screening would work. Uh so again

2772
04:24:13,600 --> 04:24:22,960
depending on the direction council would
like to provide uh we could certainly

2773
04:24:19,279 --> 04:24:27,120
build that out. um but would want to uh
then come back to council in terms of

2774
04:24:25,040 --> 04:24:32,880
the resources required and and our
ability to manage it. I um I would like

2775
04:24:30,239 --> 04:24:38,399
to go back to uh council member Lith's
question related to the management of

2776
04:24:34,399 --> 04:24:44,319
the permit pilot to also point out that
in that uh in that program we are

2777
04:24:42,319 --> 04:24:48,800
expecting to need to bring on uh
nonprofit partners similar to what we've

2778
04:24:46,319 --> 04:24:56,000
done with our other uh uh homeless
outreach and uh safe parking programs.

2779
04:24:52,399 --> 04:25:01,840
And so we need to uh learn their
capacity as well to be able to assist us

2780
04:24:59,040 --> 04:25:08,399
uh with any of these programs.
Okay. I think I uh uh with a little bit

2781
04:25:06,800 --> 04:25:15,680
of time left have a last question about
just uh the level of demand um and the

2782
04:25:13,279 --> 04:25:22,399
sort of finality of the pilot streets.
Uh it seems like the pilot streets have

2783
04:25:17,840 --> 04:25:30,159
capacity for 116 or 125 uh spaces from
the staff report. It seems like there

2784
04:25:24,800 --> 04:25:37,120
are around 37 maybe 60 uh permit spaces
available. Um, so it seems like there's

2785
04:25:33,359 --> 04:25:44,800
still some extra capacity even if we
only have one side and if we have 37 or

2786
04:25:39,760 --> 04:25:52,479
60 uh uh permitted spots compared to say
a baseline of 130 odd RVs. Uh if we

2787
04:25:48,080 --> 04:25:57,439
think that is the right baseline. Um,
does that suggest that there's room to

2788
04:25:54,080 --> 04:26:02,319
trim down or uh
reduce the parking in front of

2789
04:25:59,600 --> 04:26:07,439
residences from this list of second
pilot streets or do we just have to have

2790
04:26:05,199 --> 04:26:12,720
some buffer for the parking to work out
math-wise? Like how does how do we think

2791
04:26:09,199 --> 04:26:17,439
about those numbers? Well, first um in
terms of just how to think about those

2792
04:26:14,560 --> 04:26:23,600
numbers, it's really as estimates and
and to a large extent ballpark estimates

2793
04:26:20,000 --> 04:26:29,439
and and so from a staff perspective,
we've been working within that ballpark

2794
04:26:26,239 --> 04:26:34,880
and and I think it would be fair to uh
also just acknowledge one of the big

2795
04:26:31,120 --> 04:26:39,279
variables is uh that on the alternating
side prohibitions that there are there's

2796
04:26:37,439 --> 04:26:46,399
demand for other vehicles to park there
as well. And so we would expect that

2797
04:26:42,960 --> 04:26:50,960
there will be others in addition to OSV
uh dwellers that will be using that

2798
04:26:48,880 --> 04:26:55,840
parking. So again that that introduced
just another variable uh for

2799
04:26:52,640 --> 04:26:57,520
consideration and in how this ultimately
will play out.

2800
04:26:57,199 --> 04:27:01,279
» Okay.
>> And you you made a reference to

2801
04:26:59,040 --> 04:27:07,120
residential areas and I'm not sure I I
followed uh how that connected. Oh. Uh

2802
04:27:04,880 --> 04:27:12,080
just responding to public comments about
which uh uh streets in the second pilot

2803
04:27:10,479 --> 04:27:17,359
maybe should be prioritized or should
not be prioritized. Um

2804
04:27:13,920 --> 04:27:23,520
» as being residential or
close enough to uh yeah, I I would just

2805
04:27:20,880 --> 04:27:28,319
uh acknowledge and agree that the
current

2806
04:27:25,279 --> 04:27:33,600
um prohibition for overnight uh OSV
parking in residential areas is complex

2807
04:27:31,279 --> 04:27:39,120
in its definition. So through this work,
it has brought to light the value in

2808
04:27:35,920 --> 04:27:44,560
simplifying that and making it uh uh
more easily understood both by the

2809
04:27:40,800 --> 04:27:48,560
public and to administer. Thank you,
>> Vice Mayor Stone.

2810
04:27:46,640 --> 04:27:52,239
» Thank you, Madame Mayor, and big thanks
to the OSV ad hoc for all the work that

2811
04:27:50,399 --> 04:27:57,120
you've been that you've been doing. I
know that's a that's a a big lift on a

2812
04:27:54,479 --> 04:28:03,680
really challenging issue. Few few
questions for for staff. Has have you

2813
04:28:00,239 --> 04:28:09,760
prepared a a map with the proposed
impacted streets in the in the in the

2814
04:28:07,680 --> 04:28:13,840
pilot?
How we how we labeling this [snorts] in

2815
04:28:12,000 --> 04:28:18,319
the second?
Yeah, in the in the second pilot because

2816
04:28:16,560 --> 04:28:21,600
I mean we have a we have a list of the
streets. I would find it really

2817
04:28:20,000 --> 04:28:27,600
beneficial to actually be able to see a
map of the city of those portions

2818
04:28:25,040 --> 04:28:34,800
highlighted because my big concern and
we've been hearing um a a frustration

2819
04:28:31,120 --> 04:28:39,439
from the community is that these these
streets are being concentrated mostly in

2820
04:28:37,600 --> 04:28:45,760
South PaloAlto
and a general frustration amongst many

2821
04:28:42,960 --> 04:28:52,720
in in South PaloAlto. I'm a South Palton
my myself u that so oftent times the the

2822
04:28:50,319 --> 04:28:57,279
the burden of so many of these kind of
city programs has has shifted over

2823
04:28:55,040 --> 04:29:03,840
towards South PaloAlto and I I
understand some some kind of maybe

2824
04:29:00,640 --> 04:29:10,080
limitations given for staff given prior
council direction regarding trying to um

2825
04:29:07,600 --> 04:29:13,520
avoid residential streets and I know
there is more of that in in North Palto

2826
04:29:12,159 --> 04:29:18,479
themselves so I can understand some of
that But do we have kind of a visual

2827
04:29:15,760 --> 04:29:22,399
representation of of that? And the staff
also, do you agree or disagree about

2828
04:29:21,040 --> 04:29:26,479
kind of the concentration of where these
streets are?

2829
04:29:24,319 --> 04:29:30,560
» Well, at this point, I believe that
hasn't been prepared, but it really

2830
04:29:28,319 --> 04:29:35,840
relatively easily can be prepared at a
citywide level. I to be frank, the work

2831
04:29:33,600 --> 04:29:42,560
has been done at a much more granular
level. So, um, it's just really

2832
04:29:40,000 --> 04:29:50,640
putting that together with a broader uh
view. Uh as to the concern, I think once

2833
04:29:47,439 --> 04:29:58,319
again it does relate to some ways the
the application of this residential non

2834
04:29:55,120 --> 04:30:04,399
or not uh definition in the current code
and the limited uh way that that's

2835
04:30:01,199 --> 04:30:10,800
defined by zoning uh as was pointed out
areas that do not have the uh more

2836
04:30:08,000 --> 04:30:16,319
straightforward residential zoning which
I think does tend to

2837
04:30:13,359 --> 04:30:23,120
uh exist in southern parts of town makes
it uh less likely that that has been

2838
04:30:20,080 --> 04:30:26,880
implemented over time. So that's another
uh cleanup that could be done as part of

2839
04:30:24,720 --> 04:30:30,479
our next steps. Yeah. And I think it
would be helpful to be able to have

2840
04:30:28,319 --> 04:30:34,720
asurances to know that it hasn't just
been well it's it's more less

2841
04:30:32,880 --> 04:30:40,399
challenging maybe in South Palto to find
these streets. Um, but we've still done

2842
04:30:37,600 --> 04:30:45,120
our due diligence to identify kind of in
a more equitable approach across the

2843
04:30:42,720 --> 04:30:50,720
city on where we are where we're
identifying these streets.

2844
04:30:47,600 --> 04:30:55,199
» If if I may, Vice Mayor, um, one of the
ways that we ended up with these streets

2845
04:30:52,880 --> 04:31:00,399
was through the policy and services back
in August of last year and then the

2846
04:30:57,760 --> 04:31:06,399
October meeting. And these were the
impacted streets that we started to uh

2847
04:31:03,760 --> 04:31:10,399
do the phase one portion of the phased
approach on. So I think we just

2848
04:31:08,239 --> 04:31:17,120
naturally moved to phase two on the
streets we'd already started um

2849
04:31:14,479 --> 04:31:22,800
making interventions on.
>> Okay. So still I guess not getting the

2850
04:31:21,439 --> 04:31:29,760
types of insuranceances of kind of where
the these are. I I again I understand

2851
04:31:25,439 --> 04:31:33,840
the limitations here. Um, another qu So,
another question because this has come

2852
04:31:31,760 --> 04:31:39,520
up several times. I know this has been a
common theme in prior council

2853
04:31:35,920 --> 04:31:45,439
discussions is trying to cap these
permits at a a particular point in time

2854
04:31:42,960 --> 04:31:51,040
count or whatever legal way that we are
able to to do that under current state

2855
04:31:48,640 --> 04:31:57,520
law. I mean, what do we need in order to
in order to be able to restrict OSV

2856
04:31:53,680 --> 04:32:06,080
parking to only being permitted based on
again kind of some type of of count?

2857
04:32:03,359 --> 04:32:10,080
» Yeah. So, I I mean I do think that so
there there is is the San Francisco

2858
04:32:08,159 --> 04:32:14,800
example which has so far been
successful. I I wouldn't say that

2859
04:32:11,680 --> 04:32:19,120
there's, you know, sort of definitive
law on that one way or the other. Uh but

2860
04:32:17,680 --> 04:32:24,720
but you could definitely point to that
example. I I'd say the one thing um that

2861
04:32:23,120 --> 04:32:27,840
I you know I would point to that in
cities that have been you know

2862
04:32:26,239 --> 04:32:33,920
successful in implementing these
programs is they do have um you know

2863
04:32:31,040 --> 04:32:41,120
support um and resources made available
to transition uh people out of OSVs. So

2864
04:32:38,000 --> 04:32:48,479
it doesn't uh you know you're it looks
like you're trying to solve the problem

2865
04:32:43,760 --> 04:32:48,479
rather than than target people.

2866
04:32:49,920 --> 04:32:53,560
Okay. I mean,

2867
04:32:55,279 --> 04:33:01,920
okay. I guess helpful moving moving
forward to really kind of better

2868
04:32:59,920 --> 04:33:05,279
understand. I I mean, I know there's no
direct

2869
04:33:03,439 --> 04:33:09,439
road map to be able to get there because
every community is different. But I I

2870
04:33:07,840 --> 04:33:17,199
guess at this point I would have hoped
for some more kind of developed um maybe

2871
04:33:14,080 --> 04:33:22,561
theory and how we kind of how we achieve
that. I I think a pilot is a good place

2872
04:33:19,840 --> 04:33:26,000
to start. Um I'm sorry I'm going now off
of off of questions so I will hold up

2873
04:33:24,799 --> 04:33:28,561
until later. Thank you may
>> Yeah. And and I would just, you know,

2874
04:33:27,279 --> 04:33:33,680
point out that that's something that
that if if we got direction either from

2875
04:33:31,520 --> 04:33:38,080
the ad hoc committee or council to move
in that direction, we would look at much

2876
04:33:35,520 --> 04:33:42,080
more more carefully. Um but that's those
are just general observations that I

2877
04:33:39,680 --> 04:33:48,719
have now.
>> Council member Bert.

2878
04:33:45,199 --> 04:33:56,080
Um, so maybe I missed it, but I couldn't
find the staff report. If um, so we have

2879
04:33:52,719 --> 04:34:04,959
uh, currently 22 spots at Gang, 37 in
the pilot, and maybe up to 50. Um, how

2880
04:34:00,320 --> 04:34:13,279
many uh, approximately how many RV spots
would be enabled by the um, the second

2881
04:34:10,320 --> 04:34:17,760
half of the of the pilot? Um that's the
alternating streets, sides of the

2882
04:34:15,760 --> 04:34:23,920
street.
>> Uh Council Member Bert, uh this the

2883
04:34:20,080 --> 04:34:27,439
second part of the pilot would actually
disallow

2884
04:34:25,520 --> 04:34:31,600
uh approximately half of the current
spaces. So depending on the time of

2885
04:34:29,359 --> 04:34:35,840
year, I I believe one half of the year
it would be

2886
04:34:33,520 --> 04:34:41,039
there'd be room if no one else was
parking and only RVs were parking, there

2887
04:34:37,920 --> 04:34:46,879
would be room for 116, I believe, is the
the low number.

2888
04:34:43,600 --> 04:34:50,160
» Okay. Um
that's an important number. So, we've

2889
04:34:48,320 --> 04:34:57,439
got 116
plus uh somewhere between

2890
04:34:54,400 --> 04:35:06,561
uh 59 and 70 because I count the king as
as accommodating RVs. Um and then

2891
04:35:03,359 --> 04:35:13,039
um so that that takes us up, you know,
to a pretty high number uh higher than

2892
04:35:10,879 --> 04:35:17,279
what we have in RVs in our community
today.

2893
04:35:14,879 --> 04:35:22,240
And um so I I think that's an important
reference point. Um

2894
04:35:19,760 --> 04:35:28,879
the outreach that we had I I I read that
we there was a focus group and um and I

2895
04:35:26,480 --> 04:35:36,439
think that was Mountain View and Palo
Alto um folks in a maybe was a countyled

2896
04:35:33,039 --> 04:35:36,439
focus group.

2897
04:35:36,480 --> 04:35:43,680
» Uh thank you Council Member Bert. Um I
believe you're referring to there there

2898
04:35:40,719 --> 04:35:50,080
was a regional convening led by uh
Supervisor Abbe Koga and that involved

2899
04:35:47,920 --> 04:35:53,600
uh any any city that wanted to
participate. There were also some

2900
04:35:51,600 --> 04:35:57,119
members of the business community there.
>> No, that's not what I'm referring to.

2901
04:35:54,879 --> 04:36:02,480
I'm referring to I'm trying to cite
where I I read it. Uh but I thought I

2902
04:35:59,439 --> 04:36:09,279
read that there was a focus group that
um looked at uh a group of uh very low

2903
04:36:06,160 --> 04:36:14,879
income RV dwellers and uh their
circumstances. Um it was it wasn't a

2904
04:36:12,400 --> 04:36:19,760
statistical sampling but a focus group.
Uh I'll have to try to figure out where

2905
04:36:17,199 --> 04:36:25,520
I read that. Well, there was a if I may,
I I don't recall this being in the staff

2906
04:36:21,439 --> 04:36:29,600
report, but I I do recall
as part of the county community plan to

2907
04:36:27,920 --> 04:36:36,561
end homelessness, there was a focus
group in North County with RV dwellers.

2908
04:36:32,639 --> 04:36:39,199
It was held at King Road. Um
yeah, maybe

2909
04:36:37,840 --> 04:36:46,160
» that's what I'm referring to. Yeah, it
was in a previous report. Um but uh we

2910
04:36:42,879 --> 04:36:49,520
don't have this long into this process
we don't have any other data. Is that

2911
04:36:47,920 --> 04:36:54,799
right? Because the focus group didn't
seem representative. They were very

2912
04:36:51,600 --> 04:37:00,400
important uh group I think because they
were u uh really representative these

2913
04:36:57,840 --> 04:37:06,000
that we want to focus on helping the
most um uh families with children in in

2914
04:37:04,000 --> 04:37:12,080
our schools and who worked here and and
very low income. Um, so I think it was

2915
04:37:08,480 --> 04:37:18,320
an important focus group, but I'm I'm
really uh mystified that we don't have

2916
04:37:14,879 --> 04:37:22,879
better data after all this time and um
we have this outreach that's going on

2917
04:37:20,240 --> 04:37:28,879
and and somehow it's not resulting in
data collection. Um, and has there been

2918
04:37:27,119 --> 04:37:35,240
a
an outreach meeting with the affected

2919
04:37:31,840 --> 04:37:35,240
business community?

2920
04:37:36,561 --> 04:37:46,320
not since the uh release of the
specifics of the pilot. Uh there was uh

2921
04:37:42,639 --> 04:37:49,600
outreach more in general on the topic uh
really over the course of the last few

2922
04:37:47,920 --> 04:37:55,760
months.
>> There was outreach in what way?

2923
04:37:51,680 --> 04:38:02,240
» We held a workshop that uh was a primary
community workshop along with uh the

2924
04:37:58,799 --> 04:38:08,480
ongoing uh individual stakeholder uh
discussions that have happened. And then

2925
04:38:05,359 --> 04:38:14,639
out of the anticipated participation in
the uh the permitted pilot and the

2926
04:38:11,760 --> 04:38:20,799
alternating streets pilot, do we have
any sense of what portion of the RV

2927
04:38:17,920 --> 04:38:26,561
dwellers will participate in either of
those because it's can't force them to.

2928
04:38:24,719 --> 04:38:31,760
» Thank you, Council Member Bert. It's
been um as I'm sure you appreciate

2929
04:38:28,639 --> 04:38:35,199
really difficult to speak about an item
with members of the public before the

2930
04:38:33,359 --> 04:38:41,600
item had come before council. So we we
have asked our outreach team and our

2931
04:38:38,080 --> 04:38:46,160
service providers um in a more broad way
how how their clients would feel about

2932
04:38:44,879 --> 04:38:49,359
something like this and whether they
would participate. And we used that

2933
04:38:47,760 --> 04:38:54,959
feedback and brought that feedback back
to the ad hoc to help develop what is

2934
04:38:51,520 --> 04:38:57,959
before you today. And that feedback was
what?

2935
04:39:01,039 --> 04:39:08,480
» Uh, thank you, council member. I I don't
have all of that in front of me right

2936
04:39:05,439 --> 04:39:13,279
now, but questions like what what fee
amount would people be okay with? What

2937
04:39:10,561 --> 04:39:17,920
minimum amenities would people be
willing to accept a good neighbor

2938
04:39:15,520 --> 04:39:20,320
agreement? Um,
>> things like that.

2939
04:39:18,799 --> 04:39:27,879
» Okay, so that's different threshold
levels. I'm kind of looking for did we

2940
04:39:22,959 --> 04:39:27,879
get a a strong interest in participating

2941
04:39:28,959 --> 04:39:36,799
» as uh Miss Mcdana pointed out this is
with the service providers not with the

2942
04:39:33,920 --> 04:39:42,958
potential uh permites as would be in the
case here. Uh so we at this point really

2943
04:39:40,320 --> 04:39:49,040
we're looking to the pilot as a way for
us to assess that. uh this this

2944
04:39:45,440 --> 04:39:55,040
represents the best combination of
elements that uh uh based on the

2945
04:39:52,320 --> 04:40:01,280
feedback we received felt that could be
viable and really needs to be tested in

2946
04:39:57,440 --> 04:40:07,680
real life. Okay. Um and the real life
test is important. I I I'm nervous about

2947
04:40:04,798 --> 04:40:12,000
spending so much money without having um
a stronger sense of whether we're going

2948
04:40:09,600 --> 04:40:18,638
to have an uptake. Uh I'm hopeful we
will. Um, okay. Uh,

2949
04:40:16,638 --> 04:40:22,958
I I'll leave it at that. Uh, I have some
other questions and certainly many

2950
04:40:20,080 --> 04:40:28,160
comments.
Council member Lowing,

2951
04:40:26,320 --> 04:40:34,878
your light was back on. Are you Are you
good? Okay. Are you good? Well, for now,

2952
04:40:31,280 --> 04:40:37,760
yes. Okay. Council member Lith,
>> could I just speak to Council Member

2953
04:40:36,240 --> 04:40:42,798
Bert's question because I did take
extensive notes in these meetings and um

2954
04:40:40,480 --> 04:40:48,160
just searching my notes quickly. What
I'm seeing is what made the pilot um

2955
04:40:46,240 --> 04:40:53,440
more or less attractive was the extent
to which there would be some kind of

2956
04:40:50,320 --> 04:41:00,718
service for sewage uh pumpout that would
be much more attractive uh to RV

2957
04:40:56,160 --> 04:41:04,240
dwellers. And um that said um people did
desire to participate in the pilot

2958
04:41:02,320 --> 04:41:10,560
because the alternative is certainly not
better. Um so it you know we we felt we

2959
04:41:08,080 --> 04:41:16,160
had enough green light to you know that
we would have uptake. Um but it is not

2960
04:41:14,160 --> 04:41:19,160
to say that it's seen as you know a
panacea.

2961
04:41:21,520 --> 04:41:30,200
Okay. All right. So, with that, um,
let's turn to public comment. Um, we

2962
04:41:30,958 --> 04:41:37,840
have gotten, as Council Member Lowing
said, a lot of emails. Uh, we appreciate

2963
04:41:35,840 --> 04:41:43,120
those. It does help us think it through,
as will your oral comments tonight. Uh,

2964
04:41:40,560 --> 04:41:49,200
we have a lot of them, and we will sit
here and listen to all of them. Um,

2965
04:41:46,638 --> 04:41:53,280
one of the things that I would ask is
just so that we can hear all the

2966
04:41:51,040 --> 04:41:57,760
perspectives is that there just aren't
any audible responses to them. No

2967
04:41:55,680 --> 04:42:04,718
clapping, you know, cheering, any of
that kind of thing. We'll just uh listen

2968
04:41:59,600 --> 04:42:09,920
to everybody. Um, and um, with respect
to um, well, actually, so, madam clerk,

2969
04:42:07,280 --> 04:42:16,160
how are we doing on the numbers?
>> We have 49 individual speakers and three

2970
04:42:13,280 --> 04:42:20,878
group speakers. Okay. All right. I think
that necessitates uh for each of the

2971
04:42:18,480 --> 04:42:26,080
three groups, we will have five minutes
each and for each of the individuals

2972
04:42:22,798 --> 04:42:30,400
that will be one minute each. And um the
clerk will put up a list of your names.

2973
04:42:28,958 --> 04:42:35,120
Many of you have been through this many
times and many of you have not. Um and

2974
04:42:32,638 --> 04:42:40,958
she'll call out your name and then the
name of the following speaker so you can

2975
04:42:36,878 --> 04:42:45,718
be ready to approach the uh lectern. All
right. Thank you. Our

2976
04:43:05,760 --> 04:43:10,120
first speaker is Barry K.

2977
04:43:24,798 --> 04:43:33,440
Good evening. I'm Barry Kates. I'm
representing a large and growing number

2978
04:43:30,320 --> 04:43:37,200
of the roughly 400 households that
comprise the Ventura Neighborhood

2979
04:43:35,040 --> 04:43:42,080
Association.
It's true that we are not one of the

2980
04:43:39,120 --> 04:43:47,920
postcard neighborhoods of PaloAlto. Our
streets are more likely to be named

2981
04:43:43,840 --> 04:43:54,958
after Mexican saints Margarita Fernando
than English poets Cridge Tennyson.

2982
04:43:52,560 --> 04:43:59,840
But we are proud of the racially,
ethnically, and economically diverse

2983
04:43:57,200 --> 04:44:03,840
community that we have built and we want
to see it grow and flourish. Can I just

2984
04:44:01,920 --> 04:44:08,480
ask, do any of you live in the Ventura
neighborhood?

2985
04:44:06,240 --> 04:44:13,878
I thought so because if you did, this
stupid proposal would never have gotten

2986
04:44:10,240 --> 04:44:13,878
out the front door.

2987
04:44:14,400 --> 04:44:21,840
» Regarding the OSV issue, I believe that
there has been a misunderstanding.

2988
04:44:20,320 --> 04:44:26,638
For the better part of a decade,
Venturans have been pleading with the

2989
04:44:23,760 --> 04:44:31,360
city council to address the health,
sanitation, safety, traffic, and

2990
04:44:28,718 --> 04:44:34,958
livability issues associated with
long-term OSV parking in our

2991
04:44:33,280 --> 04:44:40,080
neighborhood.
To be clear, we were asking you to

2992
04:44:37,520 --> 04:44:45,200
remedy the situation, not to reinforce
it.

2993
04:44:42,878 --> 04:44:50,080
I'm not sure how this m miscommunication
occurred since you have over the years

2994
04:44:47,520 --> 04:44:55,520
received hundreds, probably thousands of
letters, emails, text messages,

2995
04:44:53,600 --> 04:44:59,040
telephone calls asking for your
intervention.

2996
04:44:57,440 --> 04:45:04,958
Like our friends in the equally
underserved and overlooked East Meadow

2997
04:45:01,840 --> 04:45:10,080
neighborhood, we are shocked, offended,
and outraged by the proposed phase

2998
04:45:07,600 --> 04:45:15,280
three. It's as if you have not heard one
word of what we've been saying. Worse,

2999
04:45:12,798 --> 04:45:20,080
you seem deliberately to have ignored
and overruled it.

3000
04:45:18,240 --> 04:45:25,280
For years, we have been providing you
with documentation of the damage to our

3001
04:45:22,400 --> 04:45:30,400
creeks, our pedestrian pathways, our
bicycle routes, our drinking water, our

3002
04:45:27,440 --> 04:45:35,280
homes, and our businesses,
and have listed the specific streets

3003
04:45:32,638 --> 04:45:40,320
where the blight is most acute. You have
responded by taking that list and making

3004
04:45:38,000 --> 04:45:44,400
those very streets the centerpiece of
your proposal.

3005
04:45:42,240 --> 04:45:49,040
Park Boulevard, the sole pedestrian
corridor between Ventura and the

3006
04:45:46,878 --> 04:45:53,120
California uh Avenue Commercial
District.

3007
04:45:50,718 --> 04:45:57,600
Olive and Ash, where residents have been
threatened by OSV landlords and women

3008
04:45:55,760 --> 04:46:02,958
are unwilling to leave their homes at
night. Your solution? Move them to the

3009
04:46:00,718 --> 04:46:10,080
other side of the street every 6 months.
Are you kidding? Are you serious? Are

3010
04:46:06,718 --> 04:46:15,280
you out of your minds?
Joe Simidian, who I liked and respected,

3011
04:46:12,638 --> 04:46:19,200
like to used to say, "Don't come to us
with problems, come to us with

3012
04:46:17,440 --> 04:46:24,320
solutions."
With all due respect, I think Joe had it

3013
04:46:21,280 --> 04:46:28,878
backwards. It is our responsibility as
citizens to petition government for the

3014
04:46:26,400 --> 04:46:34,480
redress of grievances. It is your
responsibility to resolve them.

3015
04:46:32,160 --> 04:46:39,200
Nevertheless, since you are apparently
committed to long-term OSV parking on

3016
04:46:36,718 --> 04:46:44,320
our residential streets, I would like to
offer a constructive counter proposal.

3017
04:46:42,718 --> 04:46:47,320
Invite them into your own damn
neighborhoods.

3018
04:46:48,878 --> 04:46:55,280
» I'm sorry, we can't do that. We can't
get up. We can't have applause. We'll

3019
04:46:53,360 --> 04:46:58,718
have to suspend. So, okay. I need no
more applause. Thank you. All right.

3020
04:46:57,280 --> 04:47:02,958
Move to the next speaker. Our next
speaker is Rand T.

3021
04:47:04,240 --> 04:47:14,400
Oh man, I've got some data for you.
>> Okay, so I'm primarily here um

3022
04:47:11,360 --> 04:47:21,680
representing five of 15 um second
homers. Um I'm a 1.5 homer myself. Um my

3023
04:47:18,798 --> 04:47:25,360
RV is my starter home. Um which I
purchased because there were extensive

3024
04:47:23,760 --> 04:47:30,638
layoffs at my company and I didn't know
if I was going to want to put a down

3025
04:47:27,520 --> 04:47:34,400
payment on an apartment. And so, uh,
because I've saved so much on money on

3026
04:47:32,320 --> 04:47:38,160
rent, I've purchased a property in the
Santa Cruz Mountains, and I'm about

3027
04:47:36,240 --> 04:47:43,440
three to five years away from building a
house of my own. Um,

3028
04:47:41,760 --> 04:47:48,798
basically,
all right. Well, amendment E is going to

3029
04:47:46,000 --> 04:47:53,200
backfire spectacularly
because

3030
04:47:51,040 --> 04:47:57,520
basically we're just going to all
condense onto one side of the street,

3031
04:47:55,680 --> 04:48:02,798
bumperto-bumper.
The street swinging programs have been

3032
04:48:00,240 --> 04:48:07,120
very good at eliminating the methheads
with their piles of trash and and the

3033
04:48:05,200 --> 04:48:15,040
people who don't actually work in the
area. And that has reduced the East

3034
04:48:10,080 --> 04:48:20,638
Meadow population to about 45 RVs. Um I
counted while I was passing out flyers

3035
04:48:17,360 --> 04:48:27,680
about this meeting. Um which is about
half of the 95 RVs there were last year.

3036
04:48:24,638 --> 04:48:34,400
And by implementing E, you're going to
have a solid wall of RVs all around the

3037
04:48:30,638 --> 04:48:39,040
circle again. Not just as it was in a
year ago, but also in front of the

3038
04:48:37,280 --> 04:48:43,840
housing,
uh, which we don't like to park in front

3039
04:48:40,718 --> 04:48:48,560
of housing because it's it's weird. But
yeah, but we will have to take that

3040
04:48:46,160 --> 04:48:52,480
space because we can't park on the other
side of the street. And we're going to

3041
04:48:50,080 --> 04:48:56,320
move all of our cars to the side that we
can't park on. So, we're going to be

3042
04:48:54,240 --> 04:48:59,280
constantly crossing the street with our
groceries and everything that we're

3043
04:48:57,840 --> 04:49:08,718
going to bring back and our laundry from
the laundry mats causing more traffic.

3044
04:49:02,798 --> 04:49:15,520
But, okay. So, about two homers or 1.5
homers like myself, I am here to work

3045
04:49:12,400 --> 04:49:20,798
and I cannot if I did rent an apartment,
I'd be living paycheck to paycheck. I'd

3046
04:49:18,240 --> 04:49:29,120
have no retirement savings or a way to
get on the property ladder.

3047
04:49:23,120 --> 04:49:35,920
But if you were to require my employer
who has a lot of parking lot acorage um

3048
04:49:32,400 --> 04:49:40,798
to give me a spot, I would be parking
behind my workplace because I also just

3049
04:49:38,878 --> 04:49:45,280
want to bike to work and that that's an
ideal commute. Don't even make it

3050
04:49:42,878 --> 04:49:50,080
constant requirement. Just for the
working weekdays or any days I'm

3051
04:49:47,440 --> 04:49:56,080
required to be there, I can park on
company property. It makes sense.

3052
04:49:52,638 --> 04:50:01,360
Um yeah, it's there's no point in
forcing everybody to one side of the

3053
04:49:57,840 --> 04:50:06,320
street because um well density is the
issue here and that is exactly what

3054
04:50:03,520 --> 04:50:10,000
you'll be increasing is density.
Now, there there are actual parking

3055
04:50:08,240 --> 04:50:14,638
spaces on East Meadow Circle, which I
haven't seen for a long time. And I'd

3056
04:50:12,560 --> 04:50:19,360
like to keep it that way, honestly. And
I'm sure the people who live on East

3057
04:50:17,040 --> 04:50:25,440
Meadow Circle don't want a giant wall of
RVs in front of their houses where

3058
04:50:22,400 --> 04:50:31,360
usually there is just cars, except for
one RV currently. But um yeah, basically

3059
04:50:29,600 --> 04:50:35,440
amendment E is going to backfire
spectacularly and put us right back

3060
04:50:33,440 --> 04:50:40,000
where we were before street sweeping,
which um I mean not right back because

3061
04:50:37,840 --> 04:50:47,200
we'll still not have the methheads. So
that's nice, but no, it's it's not going

3062
04:50:43,920 --> 04:50:52,400
to work is the problem. And the increase
of of traffic concerns with people

3063
04:50:50,000 --> 04:51:01,040
crossing the street con constantly will
be just an absolute nightmare.

3064
04:50:56,320 --> 04:51:07,760
Now, there was a recent incident with um
one of the concerned business members on

3065
04:51:03,360 --> 04:51:12,400
East Meadow Circle um who has a personal
hobby of writing down all of our license

3066
04:51:10,160 --> 04:51:16,080
plates and then submitting it to the
Palo Alto Police Department so we can

3067
04:51:14,480 --> 04:51:22,560
move around in a circle and park where
we were before. And he was followed by

3068
04:51:19,360 --> 04:51:26,638
one of our residents to a local park and
where he said somebody would eventually

3069
04:51:24,878 --> 04:51:32,480
punch him in the face if he kept doing
that sort of thing, which we as the AR

3070
04:51:29,600 --> 04:51:36,798
RV community took very seriously and
disciplined internally

3071
04:51:34,878 --> 04:51:42,080
this person and made it very clear to
him that that kind of threatening

3072
04:51:38,240 --> 04:51:48,320
behavior is not welcome as RVers and
especially not in the housing community.

3073
04:51:45,040 --> 04:51:53,520
But he does
need time. The the man walking around

3074
04:51:50,798 --> 04:51:57,600
writing down people's license plates is
threatening every single one of us on

3075
04:51:55,600 --> 04:52:03,600
the circle. Every time he does this,
he's wasting Palo Alto resources,

3076
04:52:01,840 --> 04:52:08,638
sending the cops out to put all these
pieces of paper out, and then nothing

3077
04:52:06,638 --> 04:52:15,280
happens. It's his hobby. He's told me
it's his hobby and that he doesn't want

3078
04:52:11,360 --> 04:52:21,600
the children of there to attend PaloAlto
Public Schools. So, what is the

3079
04:52:17,680 --> 04:52:27,958
consequence for his threats against us?
>> Your time is up. Our next speaker is

3080
04:52:24,400 --> 04:52:27,958
Jason R.

3081
04:52:35,200 --> 04:52:43,680
All right. Good evening, mayor, vice
mayor, and council members. Uh, I'm a

3082
04:52:39,680 --> 04:52:47,520
Ventura resident. Uh, as is my wife. Uh,
so I sent a much more detailed version

3083
04:52:46,000 --> 04:52:54,958
of what I'm going to say in email
yesterday, so you'll have that data. Um,

3084
04:52:51,280 --> 04:52:59,920
I'm going to focus on four points. So,
one is a deeper dive on the evidence

3085
04:52:56,718 --> 04:53:05,360
that we already have. Uh, the second is
the proposed pilots's experimental

3086
04:53:01,920 --> 04:53:09,600
design. Uh the third is the cost and
finally the city system these system

3087
04:53:07,840 --> 04:53:14,000
that these decisions are going to
inhabit.

3088
04:53:11,760 --> 04:53:18,320
So first the evidence. So there's
there's a really interesting study by

3089
04:53:16,400 --> 04:53:23,920
Bob Marinaro
um and if you if you take a look at that

3090
04:53:20,798 --> 04:53:30,958
data it goes from October 2025 to mid
July shows OSV counts going from 220 to

3091
04:53:27,920 --> 04:53:37,680
131 which is 40% reduction. I know the
staff has another number. it's 191 down

3092
04:53:34,080 --> 04:53:44,798
to 133 if I recall correctly. Um but
then it's flat. So your intervention and

3093
04:53:40,798 --> 04:53:48,320
now a ste a steady state baseline. Um so
basically it looks like phase one's

3094
04:53:46,638 --> 04:53:54,080
reduction has done what it's going to
do. So that's one key piece. But the

3095
04:53:51,440 --> 04:53:59,680
deeper piece is that what's really
changing now is vehicle location, not

3096
04:53:56,240 --> 04:54:04,718
how many. So uh the speculative spillage
is very much in that data. So concretely

3097
04:54:02,560 --> 04:54:12,240
the redistribution
uh in Ventura is seen declining from 20

3098
04:54:08,240 --> 04:54:18,798
to 14 overall. So an overall decline but
if you aggregate by geography so you

3099
04:54:15,840 --> 04:54:26,160
take Park Sheridan and Lambert that's
going from 13 to two uh whereas Ash

3100
04:54:22,080 --> 04:54:33,760
portage olive and acacia rose from 6 to
10 peaking at 15. So that's going from

3101
04:54:29,040 --> 04:54:39,520
30% of the area total to 71% of the area
total. So it's pretty cool uh to see

3102
04:54:36,638 --> 04:54:44,160
that. So yeah, very clear that there is
going to be spillage when when something

3103
04:54:41,360 --> 04:54:49,680
happens vehicles go elsewhere. So number
two is the experimental design

3104
04:54:47,680 --> 04:54:56,240
and basically there are three key
problems I'll focus on. First is uh what

3105
04:54:53,440 --> 04:55:03,440
is exactly the benchmark. So we talked
about the success criterion criterion

3106
04:54:59,040 --> 04:55:09,920
being the uh lower number of OSVs
but are we taking 220 as a benchmark 191

3107
04:55:07,200 --> 04:55:16,240
there was also a 181 in there. So what
exactly are we starting with and what is

3108
04:55:12,160 --> 04:55:24,638
success? Do we get to the 102 the 2023
point in time or where exactly are we?

3109
04:55:21,040 --> 04:55:31,040
Problem two. Oh. Uh, we also that's
important because we don't want to book

3110
04:55:26,718 --> 04:55:34,798
phase one success as a success for the
pilot. So, we have to keep those

3111
04:55:32,798 --> 04:55:38,878
separate.
Causal attribution is also really going

3112
04:55:37,360 --> 04:55:44,080
to be a challenge for you when you're
running two experiments at the same

3113
04:55:40,560 --> 04:55:48,718
time. So,
you've got two treatments, staggered

3114
04:55:45,920 --> 04:55:53,920
starts, no comparison streets. Permit
holders are essentially the well-

3115
04:55:50,718 --> 04:56:00,718
behaved subset. So, it's the RV dwellers
who will actually do a permit and go

3116
04:55:56,400 --> 04:56:05,600
through that process. Um,
a six-month flip. So, there's no

3117
04:56:03,040 --> 04:56:09,680
replication and it's inseparable from
season, construction, school, and

3118
04:56:07,440 --> 04:56:13,760
traffic patterns and so on. And then
problem three is that there's no

3119
04:56:11,760 --> 04:56:19,040
published protocol.
So there's no hypothesis, no comparison

3120
04:56:16,400 --> 04:56:24,320
segments, no thresholds. Success is
currently defined as business feedback,

3121
04:56:21,680 --> 04:56:31,120
although uh I I know that it was stated
as uh the number of OSVs.

3122
04:56:28,878 --> 04:56:35,600
So I I really think that before
committing 824,000 plus annual

3123
04:56:33,360 --> 04:56:40,320
maintenance fees on which are going to
likely rise, uh that the experiment

3124
04:56:38,240 --> 04:56:45,120
experimental design should be really
considered deeply.

3125
04:56:43,200 --> 04:56:51,680
Third is the cost. I think we've already
heard that spending buy is relocation

3126
04:56:47,760 --> 04:56:55,760
not reduction. Uh and essentially I was
going to reference Berkeley's buyback

3127
04:56:53,200 --> 04:57:00,560
rate but I am about to run out of time.
So fourth is the system. PaloAlto really

3128
04:56:58,798 --> 04:57:04,320
needs a systems approach rather than
peace meal approval. So projects along

3129
04:57:02,638 --> 04:57:08,638
projects along El Camino have been
approved with parking reductions

3130
04:57:06,240 --> 04:57:14,560
waiverss and builder remedy density that
assumed on street parking. So, I pulled

3131
04:57:10,958 --> 04:57:18,718
up 3001 El Camino. Uh, and basically it
says the proposed parking supply of 103

3132
04:57:16,798 --> 04:57:24,080
spaces is lower than both the city
requirement of 198 uh spaces and

3133
04:57:21,920 --> 04:57:27,440
estimated parking of 128. That's the
first one I pulled up so I didn't have

3134
04:57:25,760 --> 04:57:31,280
to look any further. And then we have
the bike lanes which further remove

3135
04:57:29,040 --> 04:57:36,638
parking. On top of that, this proposal
is going to impact parking. So, you've

3136
04:57:33,440 --> 04:57:38,798
got three things to account for. Uh, so
I'm going to request

3137
04:57:37,680 --> 04:57:42,400
» Your time is up.
>> Thank you. So just a request addressing

3138
04:57:40,878 --> 04:57:46,760
those. Thank you so much.
>> Our next speaker is Winter Deep.

3139
04:57:52,878 --> 04:58:01,200
» Well, this is very hard. It's not
surprising that it's hard. It's hard all

3140
04:57:58,160 --> 04:58:07,120
over the country. Zillions of cities are
dealing with something that approximates

3141
04:58:03,920 --> 04:58:15,360
this. This is as you know systemic
income equality in a very pure form and

3142
04:58:11,760 --> 04:58:21,600
I do not envy you. I want to thank the
ad hoc for their time and their work on

3143
04:58:18,560 --> 04:58:26,080
this. It's a work in progress.
I appreciate that.

3144
04:58:24,320 --> 04:58:32,480
I couldn't help but think and it's so
ironic that Buen a Vista was in here

3145
04:58:29,120 --> 04:58:38,798
tonight. subject of Buen a Vista and how
we saved Buen a Vista. It took a a lot

3146
04:58:36,798 --> 04:58:46,160
of thinking, a lot of time. It took
investment. The investment was okay. I

3147
04:58:41,520 --> 04:58:52,878
want to remind you everyone that a a
below market rate unit today costs

3148
04:58:48,878 --> 04:58:56,560
around $1 million per unit.
So when I hear the costs here,

3149
04:58:55,840 --> 04:59:02,000
» your time is
>> I don't know exactly if they're right or

3150
04:58:58,320 --> 04:59:06,798
wrong, but I do know they're not it's
not astronomical. And one last thing,

3151
04:59:04,878 --> 04:59:12,080
Palo Alto,
our a basic value is we take care of

3152
04:59:09,760 --> 04:59:18,600
each other and the most vulnerable
included. Thank you.

3153
04:59:14,320 --> 04:59:18,600
» Our next speaker is Leanne L.

3154
04:59:24,878 --> 04:59:32,840
Leanne.
Oh.

3155
04:59:28,798 --> 04:59:32,840
Oh. Was it Jean L.

3156
04:59:37,520 --> 04:59:46,840
Moving to our next speaker, Anapu Anopi.
Sorry, Anu Pab.

3157
04:59:47,600 --> 04:59:54,080
» Hello. Good evening, mayor, vice mayor,
and council members. My name is Anupa.

3158
04:59:52,480 --> 04:59:59,040
I'm living here in Palo Alto for the
last 27 years. But it seems like

3159
04:59:56,878 --> 05:00:03,680
yesterday that council member Rectal and
Council Member Lavi were I working

3160
05:00:01,280 --> 05:00:09,360
together on the housing element working
group. Remember that we came up with,

3161
05:00:07,680 --> 05:00:14,958
you know, lots of meetings, lots of
discussions and came up with suitable

3162
05:00:11,360 --> 05:00:18,878
sites for over 8,000 additional units of
housing in PaloAlto.

3163
05:00:17,120 --> 05:00:24,400
And throughout those meetings, I don't
remember talking about RVs in this kind

3164
05:00:22,160 --> 05:00:30,480
of scale. We talked about a couple of
church parking lots with, you know, RV

3165
05:00:26,638 --> 05:00:34,798
uh parking, but this this seems to have
come out very suddenly, this this flood

3166
05:00:32,798 --> 05:00:38,638
of RVs that we want to bring into Palo
Alto.

3167
05:00:36,638 --> 05:00:44,718
Um so my neighbor and I, you know, we
measured the distance from our front

3168
05:00:40,320 --> 05:00:48,958
door to the street. It's 26 ft. It's
about from this microphone to the city

3169
05:00:46,638 --> 05:00:56,200
emblem.
Your time is up. Okay. Our next speaker

3170
05:00:51,280 --> 05:00:56,200
is Herb B followed by Andrew N.

3171
05:01:04,240 --> 05:01:14,878
The location of uh oversized vehicle
parking depends upon uh the definitions

3172
05:01:11,600 --> 05:01:19,760
of where it is prohibited.
Uh

3173
05:01:16,480 --> 05:01:24,000
uh you know residentially zoned areas uh
public facility zoned areas and the

3174
05:01:22,240 --> 05:01:28,878
equivalent area on the other side of the
street.

3175
05:01:25,600 --> 05:01:36,080
uh and they may also include your
commercial uh zoning that allows

3176
05:01:33,040 --> 05:01:42,560
residential as well. But what it omits
is the large number of plan community

3177
05:01:38,638 --> 05:01:48,400
zones. So, in in addition to any other
direction you give to staff, I believe

3178
05:01:45,040 --> 05:01:52,160
you should uh have them uh bring back an
amendment to the definition of

3179
05:01:49,840 --> 05:01:57,360
residential to include [snorts] planned
community zones

3180
05:01:54,958 --> 05:02:03,120
uh where a majority of the development
is residential

3181
05:01:59,280 --> 05:02:06,000
and the equivalent and they would and
the equivalent area on the other side of

3182
05:02:05,440 --> 05:02:11,280
the street.
>> Your time is up.

3183
05:02:09,200 --> 05:02:15,000
Our next speaker is Andrew N, followed
by John M.

3184
05:02:22,160 --> 05:02:28,000
Good evening. Good evening. My name is
Drew and I'm here on behalf of PHC where

3185
05:02:26,480 --> 05:02:32,638
we provide healthcare and outreach
services to people experiencing

3186
05:02:29,360 --> 05:02:36,718
homelessness in Palo Alto. PHC supports
the city manager's proposal because

3187
05:02:34,480 --> 05:02:41,200
while it isn't perfect, it recognizes
that we cannot solve homelessness by

3188
05:02:39,200 --> 05:02:46,480
pushing people experiencing homelessness
into another city. These RV dwellers are

3189
05:02:44,000 --> 05:02:50,958
not outsiders, they are Peloa residents.
They are our patients, our neighbors,

3190
05:02:48,320 --> 05:02:56,400
and members of this community. And the
increasingly hostile rhetoric toward

3191
05:02:53,040 --> 05:03:01,120
toward them concerns us. From a health
dis uh perspective, displacement

3192
05:02:58,718 --> 05:03:04,560
matters. Constantly forcing people to
move disrupts their connections to

3193
05:03:02,958 --> 05:03:09,440
medical care, behavioral health
services, outreach, and case management.

3194
05:03:07,600 --> 05:03:14,080
RB dwellers did not create the
homelessness crisis. They are a result

3195
05:03:11,840 --> 05:03:18,080
of it. So, thank you for considering an
alternative to a full ban. Please go

3196
05:03:16,160 --> 05:03:23,040
further. Treat these individuals and
residents to be served, not not problems

3197
05:03:20,878 --> 05:03:27,040
to be removed. We can address legitimate
neighborhood concerns without abanding

3198
05:03:24,718 --> 05:03:31,200
dignity and compassion. our community is
paying attention not just to the

3199
05:03:28,958 --> 05:03:35,040
decision you make tonight but to whether
every Palo Alto resident is treated as

3200
05:03:33,200 --> 05:03:38,240
though they actually belong here. Thank
you.

3201
05:03:35,440 --> 05:03:42,560
» Our next speaker is John M, followed by
Melinda M.

3202
05:03:40,000 --> 05:03:46,160
» Hello Mayor, uh, Vice Mayor, Council,
thank you so much for wrestling with

3203
05:03:44,480 --> 05:03:50,560
this very difficult problem and I want
to give due respect to the ad hoc

3204
05:03:48,240 --> 05:03:53,760
committee and I could not disagree more
with their recommendations. I'm sorry to

3205
05:03:52,240 --> 05:04:01,680
say
instead of um creating a solution around

3206
05:03:59,440 --> 05:04:06,798
helping the homeless or helping
disadvantaged persons in RVs.

3207
05:04:05,360 --> 05:04:10,400
You're going to change the character of
different neighborhoods. One of the

3208
05:04:08,638 --> 05:04:14,718
tenants that you were charged with and
that you've you've expressed before is

3209
05:04:12,878 --> 05:04:20,080
that there has to be a citywide impact
and a citywide solution. When I watched

3210
05:04:17,120 --> 05:04:24,400
Mr. Rectal and Mr. Stone discuss changes
to potential changes to compounds in

3211
05:04:22,240 --> 05:04:28,718
Crescent Park after one billionaire
built a school there and so on. There

3212
05:04:26,160 --> 05:04:34,080
was selective enforcement. I have some
sympathy for my friends in Ventura

3213
05:04:31,840 --> 05:04:40,080
as I do for my neighbors in East Meadow
Circle who bears the burden here. Um

3214
05:04:37,920 --> 05:04:45,120
compassion has no limits. It's a tough
problem and we respect this but it

3215
05:04:42,480 --> 05:04:49,440
should be a business that
>> the city follows. Thank you. Our next

3216
05:04:47,520 --> 05:04:52,718
speaker is Melinda M, followed by
Christian H.

3217
05:04:52,320 --> 05:04:57,840
Uh,
>> thank you. Um, I'm concerned as I've

3218
05:04:56,080 --> 05:05:03,360
heard from some council members about
the lack of data. Um, and I learned

3219
05:05:00,958 --> 05:05:08,958
about the San Francisco, they have a
large vehicle database. I just wonder

3220
05:05:06,320 --> 05:05:14,000
with all of the vehicles that are here
now, where did they come from?

3221
05:05:12,080 --> 05:05:20,718
Did they come from Redwood City, which
I've seen, and other in other places? I

3222
05:05:17,200 --> 05:05:26,000
guess I have a couple of other points.
Employers, as we heard one speaker,

3223
05:05:23,360 --> 05:05:32,878
should provide parking for their
employees on their lots instead of this

3224
05:05:29,520 --> 05:05:38,560
being the responsibility of the city. I
don't see Stamford here represented when

3225
05:05:35,600 --> 05:05:44,160
we know in the past that a lot of the
RVs on El Camino were people who were

3226
05:05:41,680 --> 05:05:49,360
either contract workers, Stamford
students or Stamford employees that were

3227
05:05:46,878 --> 05:05:54,958
parking there. Where is their part in
this? And I don't I'm opposed to both of

3228
05:05:52,718 --> 05:06:00,320
these programs because I don't think
they solve your time problem.

3229
05:05:58,400 --> 05:06:03,760
Our next speaker is Christian H followed
by Francis W.

3230
05:06:05,120 --> 05:06:11,280
Good evening, council members. My name
is Christian Hodm. I'm with Pacific

3231
05:06:08,560 --> 05:06:16,878
American Group. We've owned a commercial
property on 844 East Charleston for 30

3232
05:06:14,000 --> 05:06:20,000
years. Uh we recently showed that
building to a prospective tenant and

3233
05:06:18,560 --> 05:06:24,638
received the following feedback from
their agent. They loved the property but

3234
05:06:22,798 --> 05:06:28,160
will not be submitting a proposal
because of safety and health concerns

3235
05:06:26,320 --> 05:06:33,840
associated with a near permanent line of
RVs boarding bordering the property.

3236
05:06:31,520 --> 05:06:37,680
Losing perspect uh prospective business
along with the employment, economic

3237
05:06:35,680 --> 05:06:42,400
activity, and tax revenue that business
could have brought to the community is a

3238
05:06:39,360 --> 05:06:46,080
major loss for the city of Palo Alto.
We want to continue our long history of

3239
05:06:44,240 --> 05:06:49,120
bringing good businesses to Palo Alto,
but the RVs on the streets surrounding

3240
05:06:47,840 --> 05:06:54,480
our property are making that
increasingly difficult. Thank you.

3241
05:06:52,240 --> 05:06:59,040
» Our next speaker is Francis W, followed
by Danny W.

3242
05:06:57,680 --> 05:07:02,718
» Thank you for the opportunity to speak
today. I'm here to comment on item 10,

3243
05:07:01,200 --> 05:07:06,240
section E, which if adopted will
restrict parking on East Meadow Circle.

3244
05:07:04,638 --> 05:07:10,000
I'm a hardworking and law-abiding member
of the Palo Alto community whose home is

3245
05:07:08,080 --> 05:07:13,120
East Meadow Circle. I struggle with my
mental health and I'm concerned that new

3246
05:07:11,760 --> 05:07:16,160
parking restrictions could disrupt my
life and displace me from my home.

3247
05:07:14,958 --> 05:07:19,200
Furthermore, I know there are other
hardworking community members who live

3248
05:07:17,440 --> 05:07:22,240
on East Meadow Circle who would also be
displaced by new parking restrictions.

3249
05:07:21,040 --> 05:07:25,920
And I'm also concerned for their
well-being. I humbly request that you

3250
05:07:24,400 --> 05:07:28,798
decline to adopt new parking
restrictions on East Meadow Circle.

3251
05:07:27,680 --> 05:07:33,040
Thank you for your time and for the
opportunity to speak tonight.

3252
05:07:30,718 --> 05:07:38,160
» Our next speaker is Danny W, followed by
Alejandro VC.

3253
05:07:36,480 --> 05:07:42,320
» Good evening, council members. My name
is Danny Whan. I work for the property

3254
05:07:40,320 --> 05:07:46,958
manager at 844 East Charleston, whose
rear employee parking lot is accessed

3255
05:07:43,920 --> 05:07:50,718
from Fabian Way between San Antonio and
East Charleston. Fabian Way was

3256
05:07:48,798 --> 05:07:54,000
identified in the city's October 2025
staff report as one of the streets

3257
05:07:52,160 --> 05:07:57,600
highly affected by oversized vehicles.
Yet, it is excluded from the pilot

3258
05:07:55,600 --> 05:08:01,840
program before you tonight. This isn't a
hypothetical concern for us. On June

3259
05:07:59,760 --> 05:08:05,680
14th, someone living in an RV near our
building trespassed onto our property

3260
05:08:04,080 --> 05:08:09,680
and tampered with our fire suppression
system to access water. We've since lost

3261
05:08:08,080 --> 05:08:12,958
leasing prospects who cite the
conditions on the street as a reason to

3262
05:08:11,200 --> 05:08:15,760
look elsewhere. I've heard your comments
tonight and I can respect the difficulty

3263
05:08:14,480 --> 05:08:19,360
of solving the problem that the city
faces. I too believe that a managed off-

3264
05:08:18,000 --> 05:08:22,240
streetet parking solution is the best
alternative and I encourage you to

3265
05:08:20,878 --> 05:08:26,320
continue trying to arrange that
solution. I am concerned, however, that

3266
05:08:24,320 --> 05:08:31,440
the pilots would shuffle RVs around the
city. I think any street emitted like

3267
05:08:28,480 --> 05:08:35,680
Fabian Way will likely make be made
worse off as displaced RV dwellers from

3268
05:08:33,520 --> 05:08:38,798
the pilot areas will move to the streets
left out of the program to find

3269
05:08:37,520 --> 05:08:40,638
available space.
>> Your time is up.

3270
05:08:39,680 --> 05:08:46,440
» Thank you for your attention.
>> Our next speaker is Alejandro VC,

3271
05:08:42,480 --> 05:08:46,440
followed by Henry E.

3272
05:08:55,360 --> 05:09:00,360
Alejandro
BC.

3273
05:09:00,718 --> 05:09:05,480
» Moving to Henry E.

3274
05:09:08,638 --> 05:09:15,920
» Just as we failed to get the cameras out
tonight, we're going to fail to get the

3275
05:09:13,440 --> 05:09:21,840
oversized vehicles out. But they must
go. They do not comport with the

3276
05:09:18,958 --> 05:09:26,000
ambiencece of Palo Alto, nor do they
provide adequate living spaces for their

3277
05:09:24,000 --> 05:09:31,120
residents. You're pushing them into
socially isolated places. I'm a

3278
05:09:28,400 --> 05:09:36,240
sociologist. Social ties are important
to mental and physical health. So

3279
05:09:33,680 --> 05:09:40,480
therefore, to find a temporary solution,
we're smoothing the places where they

3280
05:09:37,600 --> 05:09:43,040
can have a community. So Stanford must
play a role. As was mentioned by a

3281
05:09:41,920 --> 05:09:50,718
previous speaker, they've been pushed
out by Stanford. So I said we invite the

3282
05:09:46,480 --> 05:09:56,000
VAVS to with seniors and families to Oak
Creek apartments where there's parking

3283
05:09:52,718 --> 05:10:00,638
spaces available and we invite them to
the uh Margarite parking lot where

3284
05:09:58,240 --> 05:10:05,440
Stanford can provide space and if
necessary to the police new police area

3285
05:10:03,920 --> 05:10:10,718
stations where there's parking spaces
that are underutilized. We must solve

3286
05:10:07,760 --> 05:10:12,240
the problem as a community.
We can't

3287
05:10:11,440 --> 05:10:18,520
» Your time is up.
>> Thank you. Our next speaker is Anil H

3288
05:10:14,638 --> 05:10:18,520
followed by David M.

3289
05:10:22,560 --> 05:10:26,280
Anil H.

3290
05:10:26,718 --> 05:10:30,520
Moving to our

3291
05:10:35,760 --> 05:10:41,680
» Good evening, mayor and members of the
city council. My name is Unil Hosker and

3292
05:10:39,280 --> 05:10:46,320
I've been a resident of Powalta for 12
years. I'm here tonight because I

3293
05:10:43,760 --> 05:10:50,400
strongly oppose allowing RVs to be used
as long-term residents on our public

3294
05:10:48,320 --> 05:10:54,718
streets. Over the past years, I
personally witnessed the problems that

3295
05:10:51,920 --> 05:10:59,120
can cause come with long-term RV
parking. And I have seen trash and

3296
05:10:56,718 --> 05:11:04,080
personal belongings accumulate around
vehicles, parking spaces occupied for

3297
05:11:02,240 --> 05:11:10,160
extended periods and situations that
raise serious concerns about sanitation,

3298
05:11:07,120 --> 05:11:15,440
safety, and visibility and the overall
quality of our neighborhoods. This is

3299
05:11:12,240 --> 05:11:20,240
not simple simply a parking issue. It is
a question of what standards we want for

3300
05:11:18,240 --> 05:11:25,200
our city and how our public streets
should be used. Our streets are shared

3301
05:11:22,480 --> 05:11:29,280
public spaces. They were not designed to
function as a permanent residential

3302
05:11:27,040 --> 05:11:34,240
area. And I believe that there is an
important question that every council

3303
05:11:31,600 --> 05:11:38,480
member should be considering. If other
cities are unwilling to accept long-term

3304
05:11:36,320 --> 05:11:44,798
RV parking on their streets, why should
Pala residents be accepted?

3305
05:11:41,520 --> 05:11:48,760
» Our next speaker is David M. followed by
Garrison B.

3306
05:11:58,000 --> 05:12:05,360
I've already given each of you a letter.
I've given it to the city attorney. I've

3307
05:12:03,040 --> 05:12:12,480
given it to the
uh city manager. I only have a minute.

3308
05:12:09,120 --> 05:12:19,120
So, I'll be brief.
I don't believe that the Brown Act

3309
05:12:14,560 --> 05:12:25,520
notice was sufficient for pilot B. I
believe that it would be prudent for

3310
05:12:22,480 --> 05:12:32,958
council not to make any decision on
pilot B at this hearing. You need to

3311
05:12:28,958 --> 05:12:38,480
renotice as I've explained in the letter
to inform the affected businesses of

3312
05:12:36,798 --> 05:12:44,480
council's
meeting on this subject. The amount of

3313
05:12:42,080 --> 05:12:50,000
outreach to the business community
rounds to zero. Nobody I've spoken with

3314
05:12:48,000 --> 05:12:53,680
on the affected streets who are
commercial businesses knew anything

3315
05:12:51,760 --> 05:13:00,560
about this meeting. I was the first
person to tell them. And Mr. Buren, Mr.

3316
05:12:57,200 --> 05:13:05,280
Burrs, right there is who told me about
it yesterday. The notice didn't say

3317
05:13:02,638 --> 05:13:11,200
anything about pilot B. Thank you very
much. And uh you're in the notice the

3318
05:13:08,480 --> 05:13:16,400
cure and correct portion for 30 days.
This was a demand letter on the Brown

3319
05:13:14,080 --> 05:13:19,680
Act. You need you have 30 days to cure
and correct and then you can have a

3320
05:13:18,240 --> 05:13:23,280
decision. You can't make a decision
today.

3321
05:13:20,798 --> 05:13:27,680
» Our next speaker is Kirsten B followed
by Candy T.

3322
05:13:26,320 --> 05:13:32,400
» Good evening, council members. I know
it's getting late. I'm going to try to

3323
05:13:29,120 --> 05:13:37,120
be gusty in my response. Um I want to
thank the ad hoc committee and the

3324
05:13:34,638 --> 05:13:43,440
staff. You've worked very hard on this
horribly difficult issue. Um I can see

3325
05:13:40,080 --> 05:13:49,600
the passion and all sides here. I make
two requests. Uh I'm a homeowner and a

3326
05:13:47,520 --> 05:13:55,360
property owner in Peloto as well as a
business owner. So I sort of have the

3327
05:13:51,280 --> 05:14:00,480
hat-tick of reasons to be here. My first
request is that you take the transit,

3328
05:13:57,360 --> 05:14:06,958
commercial, and industrial piece out of
this second pilot. Reason being is we've

3329
05:14:03,680 --> 05:14:12,958
been overwhelmed with RVs now for better
than 10 years. We feel we've done our

3330
05:14:09,680 --> 05:14:18,638
part with the RVs being removed by your
first phase. It has really allowed the

3331
05:14:16,240 --> 05:14:25,040
neighborhood to breathe. We ask you let
it continue to breathe. Let the program

3332
05:14:21,600 --> 05:14:30,480
go in other parts of Palo Alto. Second
qu request is we really did not get

3333
05:14:28,798 --> 05:14:34,480
sufficient outreach from
>> your time is up.

3334
05:14:31,920 --> 05:14:40,360
» So please please please come to us.
Thank you. Our next speaker is Candy T,

3335
05:14:36,560 --> 05:14:40,360
followed by Matt B.

3336
05:14:42,320 --> 05:14:49,120
Good evening. Thank you for allowing me
to speak to you tonight. Uh, I am a

3337
05:14:46,878 --> 05:14:53,120
resident of V of the Ventura
neighborhood and my comments tonight are

3338
05:14:50,958 --> 05:14:58,160
my own. I do they do not represent my
employer. We should approach

3339
05:14:55,360 --> 05:15:04,000
homelessness with compassion but also
with evidence and research including

3340
05:15:01,040 --> 05:15:09,760
work by my UCSF colleague Dr. Margot
Kushelle supports one fundamental

3341
05:15:06,638 --> 05:15:15,040
principle and that is stable housing is
the foundation for addressing

3342
05:15:11,760 --> 05:15:21,200
homelessness, not prolonged residents in
vehicles on public streets. Housing

3343
05:15:18,480 --> 05:15:27,760
first programs demonstrate substantially
greater long-term housing stability than

3344
05:15:24,160 --> 05:15:33,280
OSVs do. Housing alone alone cannot
solve every problem, but it allows and

3345
05:15:30,798 --> 05:15:38,320
provides the foundation for which all
other services can be rendered. We need

3346
05:15:36,160 --> 05:15:43,760
to leverage county, state, and federal
funding and partnerships as well as

3347
05:15:40,240 --> 05:15:48,320
philanthropy to expand programs like
HomeKey.

3348
05:15:45,280 --> 05:15:52,798
Instead of putting money $800,000
towards that, we should be funding the

3349
05:15:50,240 --> 05:15:56,798
home key program to get people off the
streets and out of these OSVs.

3350
05:15:55,120 --> 05:16:01,638
» Your time is up. Our next speaker is
Matt B, followed by Scott A.

3351
05:16:05,040 --> 05:16:11,520
» Good evening, council members. I've
spoken here a few times on this matter.

3352
05:16:09,040 --> 05:16:16,560
I'm also a resident of um South Palo
Alto. Um running out of time already,

3353
05:16:14,958 --> 05:16:22,320
but there's a few points that I would
like to make. Um number one is in fact

3354
05:16:19,920 --> 05:16:28,080
affordable permanent housing is the only
solution to the unhoused. The studies

3355
05:16:24,878 --> 05:16:34,400
again have shown that repeatedly. Um and
again this particular uh proposal I

3356
05:16:31,440 --> 05:16:38,718
oppose it completely because it's
primarily focused on the residents and

3357
05:16:36,320 --> 05:16:43,120
the streets of South Palo Alto. I really
feel like we should consider other

3358
05:16:40,080 --> 05:16:48,798
streets such as Sand Hill Road, Oregon
Avenue, the feeder along Oregon

3359
05:16:44,958 --> 05:16:54,798
Expressway as well as um Palo Alto
Avenue, San Francisco Creek side is

3360
05:16:52,000 --> 05:16:59,920
perfectly open as a onem stretch from
Alma all the way to uh Middlefield Road.

3361
05:16:58,160 --> 05:17:03,680
So I think that would be important to
consider all these other areas that

3362
05:17:01,600 --> 05:17:07,440
could also take on the housing. And
plus, in my conversations tonight, I

3363
05:17:05,840 --> 05:17:12,160
think we could just ask for volunteers
who would like to have an RV in front of

3364
05:17:10,240 --> 05:17:17,138
their house. Please raise your hands.
>> Thank you.

3365
05:17:13,680 --> 05:17:19,158
» Our next speaker is Scott A.
[laughter]

3366
05:17:19,600 --> 05:17:24,240
» Hello, council. My name is Scott
Anderson. I live on Olive Avenue.

3367
05:17:22,480 --> 05:17:28,638
There's 17 kids that live on Olive
Avenue. Two of them are my own. They're

3368
05:17:25,760 --> 05:17:32,718
PhD or under. Uh they both bike to
school. I work in 3D survey. So when I

3369
05:17:31,120 --> 05:17:36,958
saw it, read in the news, um I thought
why Olive? And so on Saturday night, I

3370
05:17:34,718 --> 05:17:40,958
went to five streets, Shouter, two on
Hale, Bryant, Cooleridge, and also Olive

3371
05:17:39,120 --> 05:17:43,600
Avenue. I measured the width, uh the
distance from the front door to the side

3372
05:17:42,400 --> 05:17:48,400
of the street, and then how many cars
were on the street. By every measure,

3373
05:17:45,200 --> 05:17:51,920
Olive Avenue was the worst uh place. Um
today at 3:30 when my son came home, um

3374
05:17:50,480 --> 05:17:55,040
I counted how many cars were driving
down the street. There's 90 per hour

3375
05:17:53,520 --> 05:18:00,638
that were driving down the street doing
doing an average of 50% were going

3376
05:17:57,440 --> 05:18:04,480
faster than 25 and then 70% were not
stopping at the uh stop sign. They're

3377
05:18:02,160 --> 05:18:09,760
just turning right on a Ash. Ash, by the
way, is uh smaller than uh Olive Avenue

3378
05:18:07,040 --> 05:18:16,000
and the other streets are all 35. Um Ash
is 20 uh 29. So I I suggest that uh uh

3379
05:18:13,680 --> 05:18:20,320
strike Olive um and then engage with
residents. When I met the guy on Hail at

3380
05:18:18,240 --> 05:18:24,400
10:30 at night after I explained what I
was doing, he said, uh, you know, I

3381
05:18:22,400 --> 05:18:28,000
asked, "Do you want to do you want RVs
on your street?" He said, "No. Um, I

3382
05:18:25,760 --> 05:18:32,878
don't want to." So, I suggest you engage
with the the residents here. Thank you.

3383
05:18:30,080 --> 05:18:39,600
» Our next speaker is Eugen L followed by
Jared L.

3384
05:18:34,798 --> 05:18:44,320
» Uh, also an Olive Avenue resident. Um I
I definitely agree with many different

3385
05:18:42,400 --> 05:18:49,120
opinions in this room and I appreciate
all the input um from all parties

3386
05:18:46,560 --> 05:18:53,840
involved but I I I think all of Avenue
was a mistake to be on this list. You

3387
05:18:51,280 --> 05:18:59,760
guys all of know our North Ventura
plight. Um, so hopefully you can at

3388
05:18:56,718 --> 05:19:04,320
least ad omit the residential is my
point is anybody with residential or

3389
05:19:02,000 --> 05:19:09,680
non-adjacent residential I think should
be admitted from any of these lists and

3390
05:19:06,798 --> 05:19:13,520
offsite RV parks with proper hookups
seems most appropriate rather than

3391
05:19:11,760 --> 05:19:16,878
trying to keep these RVs in the city.
Let's if you want to keep them, let's

3392
05:19:15,040 --> 05:19:21,600
let's find a good spot for them. Thank
you.

3393
05:19:19,360 --> 05:19:26,160
» Our next speaker is Jared L, followed by
David A.

3394
05:19:24,160 --> 05:19:31,840
Good evening. My name is Jared Lockhart.
I grew up in PaloAlto on Olive Avenue.

3395
05:19:29,440 --> 05:19:37,120
Um, it may not be zoned as residential.
It's mixed, but it's a community. It's a

3396
05:19:35,040 --> 05:19:41,520
neighborhood. We know these people. Some
of these people have lived there for

3397
05:19:38,400 --> 05:19:47,600
decades, like myself. So, please
consider mixed use neighborhoods as

3398
05:19:45,040 --> 05:19:52,560
being residential for this purpose.
um more specific to your program, I

3399
05:19:50,320 --> 05:19:56,718
strongly suggest you consider what your
long what is your end point. We're

3400
05:19:54,958 --> 05:20:01,680
talking about a pilot program that might
last at least 12 months. When is it

3401
05:20:00,000 --> 05:20:06,000
going to end? When is the program going
to be finished? What is the end goal? Uh

3402
05:20:04,240 --> 05:20:10,080
that's an important consideration for
all of you so that this does not become

3403
05:20:08,320 --> 05:20:14,638
PaloAlto's
never- ending problem. Thank you.

3404
05:20:12,080 --> 05:20:21,840
» Our next speaker is David A followed by
Bill R.

3405
05:20:17,680 --> 05:20:29,440
Uh good evening. Um so on the slide 15
minutes ago, Olive Avenue was part of

3406
05:20:25,120 --> 05:20:38,638
the 200 block, not 200400 block in the
report. Is that correct? Is am I

3407
05:20:33,120 --> 05:20:45,360
hallucinating or what? Um, so
you need to do your homework and out

3408
05:20:43,040 --> 05:20:50,480
make some outreach before you send out a
report with such a halfass idea.

3409
05:20:48,718 --> 05:20:55,840
Um,
if you can't find

3410
05:20:53,520 --> 05:21:01,920
somewhere to put these RVs other than
Ventura, then you're not looking hard

3411
05:20:58,480 --> 05:21:07,280
enough. There are plenty of places,
city owned lots all over

3412
05:21:04,878 --> 05:21:12,000
put them there. Take them off the
residential areas and Ventura. Thank you

3413
05:21:10,320 --> 05:21:18,638
very much.
>> Our next speaker is Bill R followed by

3414
05:21:15,040 --> 05:21:22,958
Kareem A.
>> Uh good evening, Bill Ross. I'm

3415
05:21:20,480 --> 05:21:27,600
challenging the categorical and
statutory exemptions. It's well

3416
05:21:24,718 --> 05:21:33,200
established that the personal views if
quantified and based on sub substantial

3417
05:21:30,400 --> 05:21:39,040
evidence and experience of adjacent land
owners are relevant to establishing a

3418
05:21:36,080 --> 05:21:44,480
physical impact on the environment. I
would actually suggest that a limited

3419
05:21:41,600 --> 05:21:50,240
environmental review consistent with
appendix G addressing public services

3420
05:21:47,600 --> 05:21:56,160
and public safety and population and
housing under a constrained time limit

3421
05:21:53,200 --> 05:22:01,200
would actually help define those that
are actually homeless versus those that

3422
05:21:58,638 --> 05:22:05,760
are not. So I think that the a
structured environmental review on a

3423
05:22:03,200 --> 05:22:11,320
limited basis should be would be
beneficial rather than the exemptions.

3424
05:22:08,080 --> 05:22:11,320
Now claimed

3425
05:22:13,200 --> 05:22:19,920
» our next speaker is Kareem A followed by
Liba P.

3426
05:22:18,320 --> 05:22:24,638
» Good evening. Thank you all for your
comments and your hard work in this

3427
05:22:21,520 --> 05:22:30,958
matter. I live in Palo Alto as well as
own an office building on commercial

3428
05:22:27,120 --> 05:22:35,920
street and uh we've been suffering Mr.
Burns spoke earlier. He's my business

3429
05:22:33,360 --> 05:22:40,878
partner. We've been suffering in in the
commercial street, industrial street

3430
05:22:37,680 --> 05:22:46,560
area with RV parking for the last 10
years. I have pictures here. The it is

3431
05:22:44,320 --> 05:22:52,560
the most horrendous thing that we have
experienced. Thank you for cleaning it

3432
05:22:49,120 --> 05:22:59,360
up recently. Please exclude this
community. We have the right to be

3433
05:22:54,878 --> 05:23:05,600
there. We pay taxes. We we our office
space ha has uh devalued.

3434
05:23:03,360 --> 05:23:09,040
We cannot have guests there. It is
embarrassing.

3435
05:23:07,200 --> 05:23:16,400
This is not the kind of community we
want to work in. I beg you to please

3436
05:23:11,840 --> 05:23:22,320
take that off the list. Thank you.
>> Our next speaker is Liba P followed by

3437
05:23:19,120 --> 05:23:31,200
Vanessa C.
>> Thank you. So, my name's Leiba Pitman. I

3438
05:23:27,200 --> 05:23:38,560
believe I'm the longestterm resident on
Olive Avenue resident and owner.

3439
05:23:34,958 --> 05:23:45,760
Um, I definitely have compassion for
people living in their vehicles. Housing

3440
05:23:41,920 --> 05:23:52,080
insecurity is real and people deserve
dignity, services, and pathways toward

3441
05:23:49,680 --> 05:24:00,560
stable housing.
I'm asking you to exclude uh my street

3442
05:23:56,000 --> 05:24:04,638
that I grew up on. Uh a parent and now a
grandparent.

3443
05:24:02,400 --> 05:24:14,000
And I'm also concerned with how you
chose Olive. Why Olive? Um why weren't

3444
05:24:10,480 --> 05:24:21,200
the residents consulted before you chose
Olive? I know that um when Huelet

3445
05:24:18,000 --> 05:24:26,560
Packard was going to build across the
street, I was actually working for

3446
05:24:23,200 --> 05:24:33,760
Huelet Packard at the time and they were
very open to considering uh the

3447
05:24:30,320 --> 05:24:40,958
neighborhood. They spoke to those of us
that lived across the street before they

3448
05:24:37,760 --> 05:24:48,798
uh built their building on the far side
in consideration of residents. And when

3449
05:24:45,280 --> 05:24:56,240
the owner of former Fries was going to
build, they talked to me about building

3450
05:24:52,160 --> 05:25:03,760
a garage in my backyard. So, I'm
disappointed that no one contacted the

3451
05:25:00,480 --> 05:25:10,080
residents on Olive and request that you
not approve that. We I'm

3452
05:25:07,840 --> 05:25:15,718
» Your so just Thank you.
>> Our next speaker is Vanessa C followed

3453
05:25:12,160 --> 05:25:15,718
by Jen B.

3454
05:25:19,600 --> 05:25:28,040
Vanessa C.
Moving to our next speaker, Jen B,

3455
05:25:24,080 --> 05:25:28,040
followed by Larry G.

3456
05:25:28,718 --> 05:25:35,760
» Good evening. Um, I'd first like to
better understand how this outreach

3457
05:25:33,120 --> 05:25:40,160
program worked. How did they speak out
to ownership stakeholders? All of that

3458
05:25:37,920 --> 05:25:44,638
communication. How was that distributed?
We are a long-term owner and we had not

3459
05:25:42,560 --> 05:25:48,480
had any direct communications for
properties located on transport,

3460
05:25:46,160 --> 05:25:51,760
commercial, or industrial. There was no
communication.

3461
05:25:50,000 --> 05:25:56,400
Um, with that being said, my main
concern is security and safety of

3462
05:25:53,840 --> 05:26:00,320
children. We had a daycare within that
area with on commercial street. The

3463
05:25:58,160 --> 05:26:04,638
tenant ended up moving out when the
property was sold due to the safety

3464
05:26:02,958 --> 05:26:09,280
concerns for these children. You have
these high densities. You have large

3465
05:26:06,320 --> 05:26:13,840
RVs. Children cannot see or running
around. There's no control. Um, we have

3466
05:26:11,840 --> 05:26:19,520
since had difficulties filling the space
with another program of a preschool due

3467
05:26:17,040 --> 05:26:22,958
to that concern. If we continue to have
the high density, we will not be able to

3468
05:26:21,280 --> 05:26:27,840
fulfill the community's need for a
school and that needs to change. Thank

3469
05:26:25,200 --> 05:26:31,878
you. Our next speaker is Larry G,
followed by Jonathan B.

3470
05:26:36,638 --> 05:26:43,040
» City Council mayor, thank you for your
time. The issue of the unhoused is a

3471
05:26:41,360 --> 05:26:47,920
very serious issue and I appreciate
everyone's time working on this, but I

3472
05:26:45,360 --> 05:26:52,000
implore you to vote no on this proposal
tonight. If you look across the

3473
05:26:50,400 --> 05:26:57,040
proposal, it's putting a
disproportionate burden on a very few

3474
05:26:54,638 --> 05:26:59,600
neighborhoods such as Ventura. And you
look at the number in the streets and

3475
05:26:58,320 --> 05:27:03,280
what you're hearing from people tonight
and the questions you're getting.

3476
05:27:01,440 --> 05:27:07,920
Clearly, people weren't consulted and
there's huge impact on these small

3477
05:27:05,520 --> 05:27:12,000
streets in this small neighborhood. And
if you look at some of the segments

3478
05:27:10,080 --> 05:27:15,760
right and the number of people impacted
it's enormous. I think Gerstone you

3479
05:27:14,400 --> 05:27:21,600
asked some of the questions about how
was the heat map drawn up? How was this

3480
05:27:18,320 --> 05:27:26,400
data driven? So I ask you to vote no on
this because it really is a question of

3481
05:27:23,920 --> 05:27:31,120
fiduciary duty. Your duty first and
foremost are to the citizens of Palo

3482
05:27:28,080 --> 05:27:35,480
Alto to provide the living that they um
that they have created in this

3483
05:27:32,480 --> 05:27:35,480
community.

3484
05:27:35,920 --> 05:27:43,638
Thank you. Our next speaker is Jonathan
B, followed by an K.

3485
05:27:44,240 --> 05:27:52,080
» Jonathan Brown, 23-year Ventura
resident. The OSV parking permit pilot

3486
05:27:49,440 --> 05:27:55,440
is a promising step, but the second
proposed pilot would do nothing to

3487
05:27:53,680 --> 05:27:59,760
mitigate negative impacts and would
likely undermine the permit program

3488
05:27:57,440 --> 05:28:04,400
while incurring substantial costs.
Council member Rectal already noted the

3489
05:28:01,920 --> 05:28:09,040
unfairness it shows towards Ventura, as
does the large turnout tonight from our

3490
05:28:06,558 --> 05:28:12,558
residential neighborhood.
Parks, homes, preschools are all on

3491
05:28:10,958 --> 05:28:17,760
streets who designated, and that's just
wrong. Please heed Mayor Vinker's plea

3492
05:28:16,080 --> 05:28:22,480
to re-examine the impact on our
residences, parks, and families. Council

3493
05:28:19,920 --> 05:28:26,400
should reject the second pilot. In line
with council member Lowing's suggestion,

3494
05:28:24,798 --> 05:28:31,280
we should move towards prohibiting all
vehicle dwelling except in permitted

3495
05:28:28,638 --> 05:28:35,840
areas. As Mr. Jensen noted, the court
case that his predecessor mistakenly

3496
05:28:33,280 --> 05:28:40,080
concluded would invalidate our 2013
vehicular habitation ban has been

3497
05:28:37,680 --> 05:28:44,240
overturned by the US Supreme Court. I'm
also an attorney. To answer council

3498
05:28:42,080 --> 05:28:47,920
member Stone's question, there is
nothing in state nor federal law

3499
05:28:45,920 --> 05:28:52,000
preventing the city from enacting a ban
on vehicle dwelling except for those

3500
05:28:49,920 --> 05:28:54,878
provided under the permit program. Thank
you.

3501
05:28:52,558 --> 05:28:58,200
» Our next speaker is an K, followed by
Bob M.

3502
05:29:00,958 --> 05:29:08,638
» Thank you, council members. My name is
an and I live in Southgate and own and

3503
05:29:06,240 --> 05:29:13,840
operate our business in the Ventura
neighborhood. and we've been doing this

3504
05:29:11,120 --> 05:29:20,480
over 20 years now and I care deeply
about the community I live in. I'm

3505
05:29:16,718 --> 05:29:24,558
asking you to pause this program. I
understand that there's state laws that

3506
05:29:22,240 --> 05:29:29,840
are governing how PaloAlto addresses
people living in vehicles before we

3507
05:29:26,958 --> 05:29:35,440
approve the program. We need clear
answers on these fundamental questions.

3508
05:29:32,798 --> 05:29:42,480
What does the state law require? And
what is PaloAlto choosing to do?

3509
05:29:39,200 --> 05:29:48,558
Designating public streets for long RV
habitation is a policy choice.

3510
05:29:46,400 --> 05:29:52,878
Then the community deserves a meaningful
voice before that choice is made, not

3511
05:29:50,878 --> 05:29:58,718
afterwards. You don't approve the
experiment and then ask the neighborhood

3512
05:29:55,920 --> 05:30:04,718
what it thinks. We know from experience
that relocating RVs doesn't solve the

3513
05:30:01,360 --> 05:30:10,958
problem. Moving the problem is not
solving the problem. Thank you. Our next

3514
05:30:07,840 --> 05:30:13,958
speaker is Bob M filed followed by Ryan
J.

3515
05:30:20,558 --> 05:30:27,120
Good evening, mayor, council, city
manager. My name is Bob Marinero and I'm

3516
05:30:24,320 --> 05:30:31,200
a 34 year resident of the Adobe Meadow
neighborhood in South Palo Alto. From

3517
05:30:29,680 --> 05:30:35,440
the barrage of emails that you have
reached in recent months, you are well

3518
05:30:32,718 --> 05:30:40,080
aware of the sentiment of of PaloAlto
residents and businesses. Based on the

3519
05:30:38,080 --> 05:30:44,160
vast majority of the content I have seen
in email submissions and other comments

3520
05:30:42,240 --> 05:30:50,320
heard in the community, the common
thread is that the OSV phase 2 plan was

3521
05:30:47,440 --> 05:30:54,638
illconceived. In due respect, the notion
of legitimizing parking on 13 different

3522
05:30:52,638 --> 05:30:59,040
streets in South Palo Alto is
preposterous. Yet, I believe that a

3523
05:30:57,040 --> 05:31:04,558
certain amount of safe parking can be
expanded from the current 22 spaces at

3524
05:31:02,240 --> 05:31:09,840
Gang Road and that a registration system
would be beneficial for numerous reasons

3525
05:31:06,958 --> 05:31:14,080
such as not attracting additional OSVs.
However, OSVs should not and cannot be

3526
05:31:12,928 --> 05:31:18,320
[clears throat] allowed on any
residential streets or business

3527
05:31:16,000 --> 05:31:23,120
corridors. I have seen a handful of very
excellent alternative proposals and I

3528
05:31:20,798 --> 05:31:29,480
believe that you should consider all
part of them.

3529
05:31:24,000 --> 05:31:29,480
» Thank you. Our next speaker is Ryan J.

3530
05:31:35,040 --> 05:31:42,320
» Good evening. Uh, thank you for your
time, mayor and city council. Um, I'm

3531
05:31:40,558 --> 05:31:46,000
speaking on behalf of we're a third
generation family business. We started

3532
05:31:44,080 --> 05:31:50,638
our business in PaloAlto back in the
60s. Um, I'm currently running this

3533
05:31:48,638 --> 05:31:56,000
business and I can tell you that over
the last 10 years, we have had the least

3534
05:31:53,200 --> 05:32:00,638
friendly business climate in PaloAlto.
The vacancies have gone through the roof

3535
05:31:58,320 --> 05:32:05,360
to an all-time high. It's not just
related. It's there's numerous reasons,

3536
05:32:02,400 --> 05:32:09,360
but the RV problem is a major problem.
I'm on the south side of California. I

3537
05:32:07,680 --> 05:32:12,878
share the same concern. I hear a lot of
residents speaking up. I'm speaking up

3538
05:32:11,040 --> 05:32:18,798
on the business community. There's been
zero outreach to us whatsoever. Phase 2

3539
05:32:16,080 --> 05:32:21,840
pilot has is if you draw it on a map,
which I think would be great for all of

3540
05:32:20,000 --> 05:32:27,200
us to see, we can see how everything is
centered down on the southern end of of

3541
05:32:25,040 --> 05:32:30,958
uh Palo Alto. I've heard the comment out
of sight, out of mind. Does that seem

3542
05:32:29,280 --> 05:32:35,840
applicable? Is that fair to the
residents and the businesses of southern

3543
05:32:32,878 --> 05:32:39,200
cal of southern Palo Alto? Why why don't
we have phase two program here right on

3544
05:32:37,920 --> 05:32:43,840
University?
>> So why are we choosing the south area?

3545
05:32:41,360 --> 05:32:46,718
It's it's actually seeming like like we
all feel that you guys are kicking down

3546
05:32:45,760 --> 05:32:52,798
the can.
>> We strongly encourage you reconsider.

3547
05:32:49,200 --> 05:32:56,280
» Our next speaker is Shazad D followed by
Charlie W.

3548
05:33:04,160 --> 05:33:12,638
Shazad D.
Moving to our next speaker, Charlie W.

3549
05:33:14,240 --> 05:33:19,600
Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor,
Council, Charlie Widance, Palo Alto

3550
05:33:17,520 --> 05:33:23,680
Chamber of Commerce. We are deeply
concerned about the compounding efforts

3551
05:33:21,360 --> 05:33:28,320
of long-term OSV parking along Palo
Alto's business corridors. We fully

3552
05:33:26,480 --> 05:33:32,240
recognize that individuals living in
these vehicles are members of our local

3553
05:33:30,080 --> 05:33:36,798
workforce and community members for whom
an RV represents essential shelter. At

3554
05:33:34,958 --> 05:33:41,040
the same time, the current status quo
has become unsustainable for local

3555
05:33:38,638 --> 05:33:45,200
employers. Unmonitored, oversized
vehicle parking creates serious

3556
05:33:42,718 --> 05:33:49,600
operational and safety hazards. These
vehicles consistently block sightelines,

3557
05:33:47,520 --> 05:33:53,440
creating severe blind spots for drivers,
pedestrians, and cyclists. They

3558
05:33:51,520 --> 05:33:57,360
constrict narrow streets, making routine
freight deliveries dangerous, and

3559
05:33:55,440 --> 05:34:02,240
stripping away essential parking for
customers and employees. combined with

3560
05:33:59,760 --> 05:34:06,958
accumulating waste, unauthorized utility
connections, affected businesses are

3561
05:34:04,320 --> 05:34:10,798
reporting significant losses. PaloAlto
small businesses cannot continue to

3562
05:34:08,558 --> 05:34:14,558
operate under these conditions. We urge
council to establish a structured

3563
05:34:12,718 --> 05:34:21,840
oversized vehicle parking program that
eliminates long-term parking for RVs in

3564
05:34:18,558 --> 05:34:27,718
commercial districts. Thank you.
>> Our next speaker is David M, followed by

3565
05:34:24,320 --> 05:34:27,718
Eric J.

3566
05:34:30,480 --> 05:34:37,920
Thank you for the time. Terrible time
slot. I would I'm speaking on on behalf

3567
05:34:36,080 --> 05:34:42,320
of a medical device business with a few
hundred employees that's on LLC Court.

3568
05:34:40,320 --> 05:34:46,958
We love Palo Alto. We love to be here,
but I don't think that we can stay,

3569
05:34:44,320 --> 05:34:50,638
especially if we bring back RVs parking
on half of our street. We've had a lot

3570
05:34:48,638 --> 05:34:54,480
of issues with them. The biggest issue
is that we cannot access our facility.

3571
05:34:52,718 --> 05:34:59,360
We can't bring visitors in. There's not
enough parking for our our own

3572
05:34:56,638 --> 05:35:02,638
employees. And the more RVs that we
have, especially bringing back a half

3573
05:35:00,878 --> 05:35:06,480
street full, the harder it will be for
us. We've asked our neighbors if they

3574
05:35:04,160 --> 05:35:09,520
have spare parking, they don't. So, this
will be an impediment for us to grow,

3575
05:35:08,160 --> 05:35:14,400
it'll mean that we'll have to leave Palo
Alto, and we don't want to do that. I

3576
05:35:11,520 --> 05:35:19,280
would also ask council to um really
consider how when you say that you're

3577
05:35:16,320 --> 05:35:22,638
going to enforce the turnover of 72-hour
parking, how you'll do that. you've not

3578
05:35:21,200 --> 05:35:26,320
been able to do that in the past because
there was no funding to remove those

3579
05:35:24,480 --> 05:35:31,240
RVs. I believe that will be the same
case in this situation. Thank you.

3580
05:35:31,760 --> 05:35:38,600
Our next speaker is Eric J followed by
Eddie K.

3581
05:35:42,718 --> 05:35:46,200
Eric J.

3582
05:35:46,400 --> 05:35:51,000
Moving to our next speaker, Eddie K.

3583
05:36:02,558 --> 05:36:09,200
Hello, Edie Keading, former PaloAlto
resident, current Mountain View

3584
05:36:06,798 --> 05:36:16,080
resident. Mountain View has learned that
safe parking is much superior to street

3585
05:36:12,320 --> 05:36:21,760
parking for everyone. And
if you can't find uh properties that are

3586
05:36:19,280 --> 05:36:26,558
willing to lease to you uh for safe
parking, then I hope you consider buying

3587
05:36:24,240 --> 05:36:31,280
for safe parking. I think if it's
something you had to do a parcel tax

3588
05:36:28,718 --> 05:36:36,798
for, it would be a very popular uh
supported raise to raise money for safe

3589
05:36:33,760 --> 05:36:40,798
parking. And
uh for

3590
05:36:39,124 --> 05:36:47,680
[gasps] employers, I hope there there
are carrots you could offer too. You

3591
05:36:43,040 --> 05:36:53,200
could offer if they allow um uh safe
parking on their properties that um you

3592
05:36:51,200 --> 05:36:56,798
could provide pump service and trash
service

3593
05:36:54,842 --> 05:37:02,798
[sighs and gasps] and
um I appreciate that you look at uh

3594
05:37:00,798 --> 05:37:08,320
vehicle residents as members of
PaloAlto. Thank you.

3595
05:37:05,920 --> 05:37:11,718
Our next speaker is Gordon J followed by
Star T.

3596
05:37:13,520 --> 05:37:22,240
» Hello. Uh, good evening. Um,
I think these are both good ideas worth

3597
05:37:18,958 --> 05:37:26,718
experimenting with and uh managing or
creating space for for uh oversized

3598
05:37:24,878 --> 05:37:31,280
vehicles uh for the first one and then
managing places where oversized vehicles

3599
05:37:29,120 --> 05:37:36,480
are currently parked. I'm not sure why
Olive A ended up on the on the list

3600
05:37:33,840 --> 05:37:40,400
here. Uh current restrictions on olive
prevent uh overnight parking for

3601
05:37:38,798 --> 05:37:45,040
oversized vehicles on both sides of the
street. Uh the residential side uh no

3602
05:37:43,280 --> 05:37:51,760
oversize overnight and the commercial
side no overnight at all. Uh so it is

3603
05:37:47,600 --> 05:37:56,414
not true that uh that uh regularsized
cars are allowed to park there overnight

3604
05:37:53,600 --> 05:37:59,680
right now. Um
[sighs]

3605
05:37:56,958 --> 05:38:06,160
uh so so like I said, I think I I
support both of these uh proposals, but

3606
05:38:02,958 --> 05:38:11,638
av seems like a
a confusing street to add to this

3607
05:38:08,638 --> 05:38:11,638
project.

3608
05:38:12,400 --> 05:38:19,840
» Our next speaker is Star T followed by
S. Rose.

3609
05:38:17,440 --> 05:38:24,400
» Thank you for uh all your hard work and
for including case management in your

3610
05:38:22,320 --> 05:38:28,878
program. I think that's extremely
thoughtful. I want to entirely agree

3611
05:38:27,040 --> 05:38:34,320
that Olive should never have been on
this list. It's a strong community. It

3612
05:38:31,760 --> 05:38:40,160
has a lot of cutth through traffic as
Scott Anderson, oops, Scott A, um,

3613
05:38:37,600 --> 05:38:43,680
denoted. Um, but most of all, I just
want to say there have been so many

3614
05:38:41,680 --> 05:38:50,360
excellent comments tonight by the
community and I just want to encourage

3615
05:38:45,680 --> 05:38:50,360
you to listen to them. Just fabulous.

3616
05:38:51,840 --> 05:38:58,638
Our next speaker is S. Rose, followed by
Bianca P.

3617
05:38:56,080 --> 05:39:03,840
» Good evening. My name is uh Shawn Rose,
and I'm going to talk out of both sides

3618
05:39:00,160 --> 05:39:08,400
of my mouth briefly. Um I'm a 22 uh year
resident of Lambert Avenue. On one hand,

3619
05:39:06,558 --> 05:39:12,558
the second pilot in front of you tonight
creates more stringent rules to be

3620
05:39:10,160 --> 05:39:17,120
followed. May not read that way, but it
does. We're hopeful there. The support

3621
05:39:14,878 --> 05:39:21,280
we've received from the police uh over
the last year has really made a

3622
05:39:18,558 --> 05:39:25,760
difference and we need that to continue.
Uh it's a success story. If you want to

3623
05:39:23,680 --> 05:39:28,240
check it out, please do. The police are
there all the time. If you haven't made

3624
05:39:27,040 --> 05:39:32,000
your way over there, you got to go and
check it out. I hear a lot of Olive

3625
05:39:30,000 --> 05:39:36,160
Avenue justified. It's a residential
street. So, there's a certain amount of

3626
05:39:34,718 --> 05:39:40,878
questioning about how we're picking the
streets. Lambert's a residential street.

3627
05:39:38,958 --> 05:39:46,558
That's why we're allowed to be there.
Um, our neighborhoods spend a lot of

3628
05:39:44,080 --> 05:39:52,480
time self-reporting and self-governing.
Uh, it's a burden on Ventura and a

3629
05:39:49,600 --> 05:39:57,600
permanent remedy is long overd long
overdue. Um, Lambert, as I said, it's

3630
05:39:54,958 --> 05:39:58,718
residential. It's a residential street.
Um,

3631
05:39:58,080 --> 05:40:01,440
» your time is up.
>> We'd appreciate if you came and talked

3632
05:39:59,920 --> 05:40:05,680
to us.
>> I think all of us just start tomorrow.

3633
05:40:04,160 --> 05:40:09,920
» Your time is up. Our next speaker is
>> Thanks to Melissa and uh, Chief Ree

3634
05:40:07,360 --> 05:40:14,600
Schneider. Thank you very much.
Our next speaker is Bianca P.

3635
05:40:18,400 --> 05:40:25,240
Bianca P.
Moving to our next speaker, Joe W.

3636
05:40:26,160 --> 05:40:33,680
Hey. Hello. I'd um just like to say that
uh there's probably inevitably going to

3637
05:40:31,680 --> 05:40:37,680
be inconveniences to people living in
homes in PaloAlto and that's not

3638
05:40:35,600 --> 05:40:41,120
something that we can shy away from. Um,
I'd prefer if you burden us people

3639
05:40:39,360 --> 05:40:45,520
living in homes rather than the homeless
folks. Um, I say this as a resident of

3640
05:40:43,040 --> 05:40:50,320
Ventura, we can deal with it. Um, as can
the rest of Palo Alto. Thank you.

3641
05:40:47,760 --> 05:40:55,040
» Our next speaker is Becky S. followed by
Ron E. Yeah, thank you for taking this

3642
05:40:53,200 --> 05:41:00,480
up. I just want to align myself with
just uh Olive Avenue should just not be

3643
05:40:57,520 --> 05:41:07,280
on the list. Uh anyway, I just um I've
been dealing with uh Sergeant Eric since

3644
05:41:03,280 --> 05:41:12,080
July 1st, dealing with a couple of RVs
outside my fence and also on Matadero.

3645
05:41:10,480 --> 05:41:18,080
And there are several ways to look for
signs of movement, including comparative

3646
05:41:14,798 --> 05:41:22,798
comparing valve stem locations,
um chalking the tires, and using other

3647
05:41:20,718 --> 05:41:26,798
methodes methods such as placing a paper
clip on the tire.

3648
05:41:25,200 --> 05:41:32,080
If we find evidence of movement after
the 72-hour period, we will not tow the

3649
05:41:28,718 --> 05:41:36,080
vehicle. So anyway,
these vehicles have not moved. They've

3650
05:41:33,920 --> 05:41:41,600
gone like one block and then they come
back and then the the Lexington on

3651
05:41:37,760 --> 05:41:47,120
Matadero isn't moving at all. And I just
I guess code enforcement is understaffed

3652
05:41:43,840 --> 05:41:52,558
and there's no real will willpower. Like
it's hard. I get it. But we have code

3653
05:41:50,240 --> 05:41:55,120
enforcement. These laws are on the books
and I mean I've just been playing this

3654
05:41:54,320 --> 05:41:58,240
dance.
>> Your time is up

3655
05:41:56,558 --> 05:42:00,558
» and I you know I just got this one five
hours ago about how to check to see if

3656
05:41:59,840 --> 05:42:07,600
the vehicle has
>> Your time is up. Thank you. Our next

3657
05:42:02,798 --> 05:42:14,958
speaker is Ron E followed by Aram F.
>> Hello. On the sheet I'm number 47. So

3658
05:42:10,718 --> 05:42:20,480
take a breath. It's almost over. Um, I'm
not looking forward to having a

3659
05:42:17,440 --> 05:42:27,440
portaotti outside outside of my business
on the street. Um, I hope you understand

3660
05:42:24,160 --> 05:42:33,120
the irony here. Uh, the city is taking
my business taxes and then spending

3661
05:42:30,558 --> 05:42:38,798
taxes to put a portaotti right in front
of my front door. I'm not going to thank

3662
05:42:35,760 --> 05:42:45,280
you for that.
Okay. Um, I welcome the city to share

3663
05:42:42,480 --> 05:42:52,080
the experience. I welcome you to put a
portaotti right outside the front door

3664
05:42:48,000 --> 05:42:59,520
for a while and share the aroma, I
guess. Um,

3665
05:42:54,480 --> 05:43:03,200
if you move the RVs back and forth,
um, you're not going to be able to move

3666
05:43:00,798 --> 05:43:08,320
the portaotty, so it's it's going to sit
there. Um,

3667
05:43:06,400 --> 05:43:14,520
you know, you really ought to think this
one through.

3668
05:43:09,840 --> 05:43:14,520
» Our next speaker is Aram F.

3669
05:43:19,440 --> 05:43:28,400
» Okay. So,
Robert Marinaro, um I I'll give you 200

3670
05:43:25,760 --> 05:43:32,320
bucks towards you rent for a week and
then you come back and tell me how how

3671
05:43:30,240 --> 05:43:38,160
you like having your window knocked on
all and maybe then you wouldn't want a

3672
05:43:35,120 --> 05:43:44,798
ban of all RVs in this city. Shame on
you, man. Okay, so Justice Stanley Moss

3673
05:43:41,440 --> 05:43:49,680
said the following in Toby versus the
city of San Santa Ana. The city cannot

3674
05:43:47,680 --> 05:43:54,480
solve its homeless problem simply by
exiling a large number of its homeless

3675
05:43:51,840 --> 05:43:59,520
citizens to neighboring loces. If you
look as you go south down to Gilroy, the

3676
05:43:56,958 --> 05:44:04,558
problem gets worse and worse and worse
there. This is an intractable problem.

3677
05:44:01,760 --> 05:44:08,480
You can't simply push these people down
to the next town. That's not a

3678
05:44:06,718 --> 05:44:13,600
neighborly thing. Okay? We're going to
need a shuttle bus for the folks out

3679
05:44:10,480 --> 05:44:17,760
there on Coyote and on Embaradero. I
support the plan. It's not the best

3680
05:44:15,600 --> 05:44:22,040
solution, but we got to live with it for
now. Thank you very much, folks.

3681
05:44:22,240 --> 05:44:28,600
» Our next speaker is Penny B, followed by
City Council S.

3682
05:44:35,200 --> 05:44:41,558
» Hello, Altos. Hello.
Can I have my

3683
05:44:41,760 --> 05:44:51,360
Palo Alto City Council should base its
OSV policies on OSV use and need facts

3684
05:44:49,040 --> 05:44:56,878
rather than stereotypes and gut feelings
labeled as humanitarianism

3685
05:44:53,520 --> 05:45:00,718
and moral obligation.
Surveys and focus groups are not the

3686
05:44:58,718 --> 05:45:06,718
best ways to obtain facts regarding the
use characteristics of OSV users.

3687
05:45:04,080 --> 05:45:12,160
observational studies can be designed to
help obtain obtain these facts.

3688
05:45:09,920 --> 05:45:17,440
Both of these OSB pilot programs are
built on false premises, illconceived,

3689
05:45:14,878 --> 05:45:22,558
uninforceable, and destined to further
harm PaloAlto residents and business

3690
05:45:19,600 --> 05:45:25,558
people. I urge you to vote no on both of
them.

3691
05:45:27,840 --> 05:45:30,840
Our

3692
05:45:33,360 --> 05:45:37,958
next speaker is city council S.

3693
05:45:41,360 --> 05:45:47,080
They are no longer on Zoom. Moving to
our next speaker, Kevin C.

3694
05:45:51,120 --> 05:45:58,400
» Thank you, Mayor V. Pinker and health.
My name is Kevin Troy and I represent

3695
05:45:54,958 --> 05:46:02,000
the new ownership of 3825 to 3875 Fabian
Way. First and foremost, I'd like to

3696
05:46:00,558 --> 05:46:06,000
acknowledge that this is a difficult
situation and no solution will make

3697
05:46:03,680 --> 05:46:09,280
everyone happy. As a property owner in
Palo Alto, we have strong concerns

3698
05:46:07,600 --> 05:46:13,440
regarding the proposal you have in front
of you today. Primarily, I noted within

3699
05:46:11,840 --> 05:46:18,160
our letter to you is the concern that
OSB proposal is the first step towards a

3700
05:46:16,400 --> 05:46:22,320
permanent solution that places OSB
parking in commercial areas. Our group

3701
05:46:20,400 --> 05:46:26,400
has significant concerns with this as we
have had several conversations with

3702
05:46:23,920 --> 05:46:30,160
tenants that OC parking trends towards
safety and health concerns. Just like

3703
05:46:28,480 --> 05:46:33,520
everyone has a right to a place they
could proudly call home, everyone should

3704
05:46:31,920 --> 05:46:37,360
also have a right to proudly call a
place work. I'd like to note that

3705
05:46:35,520 --> 05:46:40,958
Council Rectal's solution to provide
commercial parking permit restricting

3706
05:46:39,040 --> 05:46:45,200
parking to two hours is an idea that is
moving towards a solution. Our ownership

3707
05:46:43,760 --> 05:46:48,718
respectfully requests that the city
council take the opportunity to continue

3708
05:46:47,040 --> 05:46:52,320
to review this item and look for a
solution. However, temporary that solves

3709
05:46:50,958 --> 05:46:56,320
for all of our commercial tenants
concerns.

3710
05:46:53,120 --> 05:47:00,920
» Your time is up.
>> Our next speaker is Zohar G.

3711
05:47:07,120 --> 05:47:16,718
Okay. Can you hear me? Okay.
Yeah, I can hear myself. So, I have been

3712
05:47:13,600 --> 05:47:21,200
in Pal 20 years. I live in the Ashland
community across from east the east meta

3713
05:47:18,958 --> 05:47:26,000
circle. I used to be able to walk around
this meta circle. I I have not been able

3714
05:47:23,840 --> 05:47:31,520
to walk around east meta circle for a
long long time. But what I really want

3715
05:47:28,320 --> 05:47:36,958
to tell you is this action and your plan
is discriminatory

3716
05:47:33,440 --> 05:47:42,320
against South Pal.
Yes, our houses don't but they've still

3717
05:47:39,760 --> 05:47:47,200
lost a lot of value just because of the
RV situation. We've also lost

3718
05:47:45,680 --> 05:47:54,400
walkability.
We've lost uh clean air because of the

3719
05:47:50,240 --> 05:47:59,200
RVs running their motors. And yet the
rest of Palato especially on the north

3720
05:47:56,480 --> 05:48:05,760
side is not affected. So this is
discriminatory

3721
05:48:01,840 --> 05:48:08,718
for the Ashon community.
I'm sure there's other few communities

3722
05:48:07,280 --> 05:48:13,760
but those are the ones that are most
impacted and I just don't understand how

3723
05:48:11,360 --> 05:48:19,120
you can just sleep at night doing it.
Your time is up.

3724
05:48:16,638 --> 05:48:22,120
Our next speaker is John M, followed by
OKG.

3725
05:48:26,532 --> 05:48:31,920
[snorts] Your report identifies
sanitation, debris, and improper

3726
05:48:30,080 --> 05:48:36,480
disposal of human waste as existing
problems associated with OSBs. But the

3727
05:48:34,718 --> 05:48:41,920
report does not tell us how black water
and gray water from those OS RVs or OSVs

3728
05:48:40,240 --> 05:48:45,920
will actually be collected and disposed
of. This is an obvious environmental

3729
05:48:44,000 --> 05:48:50,400
issue. One site adjacent to the city's
wastewater treatment plant and the other

3730
05:48:48,160 --> 05:48:56,000
at Coyote Hill where Sanford has already
raised wildfire and habitat concerns.

3731
05:48:53,120 --> 05:49:00,480
The city proposes to rely on SQL
categoral exemptions under sections

3732
05:48:58,160 --> 05:49:05,760
13015301
and 15304. However, I believe you need

3733
05:49:03,520 --> 05:49:12,558
to address the unusual circumstances
exception under section 15300.2C two

3734
05:49:09,280 --> 05:49:17,760
feet and explain why concentrating
residential RV, adding sanitation

3735
05:49:15,040 --> 05:49:21,520
infrastructure, restriping the loads and
modifying the sites creates no

3736
05:49:19,440 --> 05:49:26,878
possibility of significant environmental
effect. I ask you to defer approval of

3737
05:49:24,320 --> 05:49:30,958
this uh until the city has completed
publicly disclosed of waste water, storm

3738
05:49:29,680 --> 05:49:36,840
water, solid waste water.
>> Your time is up and environmental

3739
05:49:32,480 --> 05:49:36,840
analysis. Thank you.

3740
05:49:37,440 --> 05:49:41,480
Our next speaker is OKG.

3741
05:49:48,400 --> 05:49:54,798
» Hello. Am I on?
>> Yes.

3742
05:49:52,240 --> 05:50:00,638
» Okay. So I I'm kind of really
disappointed after listening and stay up

3743
05:49:57,360 --> 05:50:06,718
and see this whole thing and I found out
about staff which is reporting to city

3744
05:50:03,760 --> 05:50:12,958
council having all this outreach and yet
no data very little data or actual data

3745
05:50:10,480 --> 05:50:18,638
collected on the number of vehicles
duration of stays location complaints

3746
05:50:15,760 --> 05:50:22,798
citation and impact surrounding on the
neighborhood. I lived here for over 24

3747
05:50:21,520 --> 05:50:29,200
years.
and I have to put up with a lot of

3748
05:50:25,600 --> 05:50:35,760
inconsistency of how the law has been
regulated around here especially with

3749
05:50:31,760 --> 05:50:41,920
OSB. So it's really unfair to resident
especially people living in south of

3750
05:50:37,440 --> 05:50:47,120
Palo Alto and I urge that
listening to all the businesses they're

3751
05:50:44,080 --> 05:50:55,200
saying that there's no outreach to them.
Please, we are losing tax dollars and

3752
05:50:51,200 --> 05:50:58,200
the C revenue is kicking it these people
out.

3753
05:50:58,480 --> 05:51:05,040
» And that concludes public comment on
action item 10.

3754
05:51:03,200 --> 05:51:10,240
» All right. Well, thanks to all of our
public commenters. Um,

3755
05:51:08,400 --> 05:51:13,920
it's 11:12.
Um, I would like to continue this

3756
05:51:12,480 --> 05:51:18,080
conversation, but I want to ask my
colleagues about their brothers, whether

3757
05:51:15,840 --> 05:51:22,000
we can just power forward, whether you
need a short break to go forward. Um,

3758
05:51:19,920 --> 05:51:28,160
since we've been meeting since 5:30, I
mean, like 5 minutes, or can we just go?

3759
05:51:26,240 --> 05:51:32,320
» If we say go, it doesn't mean 2 a.m.,
right?

3760
05:51:29,680 --> 05:51:33,600
» Just go for now, but see how we're
doing.

3761
05:51:33,040 --> 05:51:37,600
» All right.
>> I mean, I would go with that, but

3762
05:51:35,280 --> 05:51:43,200
» Okay. Just want to make sure everyone's
okay. Good. All right. Well, with that,

3763
05:51:41,120 --> 05:51:48,878
I know I have additional questions and
comments, but uh let me uh yield to my

3764
05:51:47,040 --> 05:51:52,840
colleagues if anybody'd like to pick up
the baton at this point.

3765
05:51:52,958 --> 05:51:56,680
Council member Bart.

3766
05:51:59,120 --> 05:52:09,840
So, first I want to re-emphasize that um
making decisions like this without good

3767
05:52:05,040 --> 05:52:16,480
data is really problematic and we've had
a lot of time to um be able to um get

3768
05:52:14,160 --> 05:52:23,040
that data. Uh I just don't think it's
had the prioritization that it it uh

3769
05:52:19,920 --> 05:52:27,360
needs. Um,
I will say that I hearing from the

3770
05:52:25,200 --> 05:52:32,718
public, I'm really wondering whether
what we can address tonight or should

3771
05:52:29,520 --> 05:52:39,840
address tonight is the phase one pilot
and uh defer action on the phase 2 with

3772
05:52:36,718 --> 05:52:45,680
maybe certain guidance on uh anything
else that we want to u explore related

3773
05:52:42,958 --> 05:52:53,760
to it. I will say that if we were to go
forward with the phase two, um I I don't

3774
05:52:50,878 --> 05:53:00,798
understand why Olive and Ash and for
that matter Park Boulevard as a critical

3775
05:52:56,958 --> 05:53:06,878
um a safe route to school and bikeway uh
would have been included at all. Um, I

3776
05:53:03,680 --> 05:53:16,160
also uh think that one of the we've got
several issues, but safety is one and um

3777
05:53:11,520 --> 05:53:20,480
RVs um parking right up to within 5 ft
of a driveway is not adequate

3778
05:53:18,958 --> 05:53:27,360
daylighting. That's what's in the
proposal there. And I would support uh

3779
05:53:23,600 --> 05:53:33,040
if we did go forward with uh phase 2 uh
additional daylighting uh probably at

3780
05:53:29,280 --> 05:53:38,558
least 10 ft. Um you know state law on on
corners is now either 15 or 20 ft and

3781
05:53:36,480 --> 05:53:42,638
that's not for RVs. That's anticipating
a regular vehicle. I don't know how you

3782
05:53:40,480 --> 05:53:47,840
could see coming out of a driveway with
a a car or I mean excuse me an RV within

3783
05:53:45,600 --> 05:53:54,080
5 ft. I also think if we went forward
with phase two, uh we should adopt a

3784
05:53:50,558 --> 05:53:58,080
program like we did uh along El Camino
with the uh businesses on the

3785
05:53:55,680 --> 05:54:02,878
perpendicular streets allowing them to
request um short-term parking whether

3786
05:54:00,400 --> 05:54:07,920
it's 15 minutes or 2 hours or whatever
for their uh business for essential

3787
05:54:05,440 --> 05:54:12,878
needs for customers and the like coming
and going. Um,

3788
05:54:11,040 --> 05:54:18,558
one of the things that uh we really
haven't discussed is um on the potential

3789
05:54:16,080 --> 05:54:22,558
other sites and I don't is the question
of whether uh Stanford should be

3790
05:54:20,718 --> 05:54:28,558
providing any land. What is their
proportionate share of this problem? To

3791
05:54:25,440 --> 05:54:34,798
my knowledge, they have no RVs that are
on their uh massive amount of land and a

3792
05:54:32,718 --> 05:54:40,878
quasi municipality.
um because we don't have data, we don't

3793
05:54:37,040 --> 05:54:44,878
know exactly whose um what their share
of responsibility might be. I don't

3794
05:54:42,798 --> 05:54:51,280
assume it's a majority or anywhere near
that, but I think they should be uh part

3795
05:54:47,280 --> 05:54:59,680
of the solution on on um uh sites for
parking. I uh on the phase one, I do

3796
05:54:55,520 --> 05:55:05,760
support the two sides of Coyote. Um uh
but I am very concerned about fire

3797
05:55:02,400 --> 05:55:12,160
hazard in that area and um we had talked
about tilling the land but uh we have

3798
05:55:08,000 --> 05:55:19,360
this burnbot um technology now. But in
any event a an approach that would uh

3799
05:55:15,280 --> 05:55:26,400
really address the the fire hazard there
would be a critical part of even that

3800
05:55:21,920 --> 05:55:33,040
phase one. And um
we we also in addition to not allowing

3801
05:55:29,680 --> 05:55:37,600
the um uh if we went forward with phase
2, not allowing it on streets that are

3802
05:55:35,760 --> 05:55:46,320
uh predominantly predominantly
residential. Uh but um we we need to uh

3803
05:55:43,200 --> 05:55:53,600
up update our residential definition so
that uh plan uh PC zoning that is um

3804
05:55:50,798 --> 05:55:58,718
includes residential would be uh
categorized as residential.

3805
05:55:56,480 --> 05:56:05,440
And then we really have a question too
on whether we should extend the uh

3806
05:56:01,760 --> 05:56:10,240
protections to uh immediately adjacent
to residential area. should it be within

3807
05:56:07,280 --> 05:56:16,480
100 yards of residential that there's uh
there are no um uh permitted RVs. So I

3808
05:56:14,480 --> 05:56:24,638
think if we did a a combination of some
of these measures, we would um further

3809
05:56:20,638 --> 05:56:31,280
um prescribe the limited areas where RVs
are um would be on an at least for the

3810
05:56:28,240 --> 05:56:37,200
time being allowed, but expand this
permit area because we have 22 slots at

3811
05:56:34,718 --> 05:56:40,958
Ging, but we've seen in the last recent
months when we got data, we're not

3812
05:56:38,878 --> 05:56:46,480
getting the turnover at Ging that was
anticipated. that was supposed to be

3813
05:56:42,638 --> 05:56:51,760
transitional fullervice RV lots so that
uh we're providing very expensive

3814
05:56:48,798 --> 05:56:57,200
services along with a county and uh and
it was to be able to transition those RV

3815
05:56:54,558 --> 05:57:03,120
dwellers into permanent housing. It's
not working like intended and we have to

3816
05:57:00,000 --> 05:57:09,760
um re get that resolved and and uh
really not have that be permanent RB

3817
05:57:06,000 --> 05:57:15,558
dwelling uh but transitional. Um, so
those are my thoughts uh at this point

3818
05:57:12,400 --> 05:57:15,558
in time.

3819
05:57:15,920 --> 05:57:22,320
» Council member Lowi.
>> Thank you. Um, I want to make a couple

3820
05:57:19,920 --> 05:57:27,360
comments substantially directed at a lot
of the public comments. Um, the overall

3821
05:57:25,200 --> 05:57:32,958
direction as I said at the outtake of up
uh outset of this meeting uh is from

3822
05:57:30,638 --> 05:57:38,878
from council was to radically reduce the
total number of OSPs in our town. And

3823
05:57:36,240 --> 05:57:45,360
the other direction was we need to find
some places for legitimately

3824
05:57:42,638 --> 05:57:50,000
folks that legitimately need help. Pilot
one does that exactly with a lot of

3825
05:57:48,080 --> 05:57:54,240
controls.
Pilot two doesn't do that as it's

3826
05:57:51,760 --> 05:58:00,160
proposed and it doesn't do that for a
number of reasons. But what we've heard

3827
05:57:56,480 --> 05:58:04,080
from the public tonight is that the um
suggestions that came in that staff

3828
05:58:01,760 --> 05:58:08,240
report are not acceptable. that you not
only don't want it on

3829
05:58:06,558 --> 05:58:12,400
either side of the street, you don't
want it on both sides of the street. You

3830
05:58:10,320 --> 05:58:16,958
don't want it at all, which at this
point in time I think is perfectly

3831
05:58:13,920 --> 05:58:23,040
understandable. So what that presents to
us on [snorts] the second part of it is,

3832
05:58:20,080 --> 05:58:27,280
as I said earlier, you know, the you
folks have put up with this long enough,

3833
05:58:24,878 --> 05:58:29,920
we just need to shut it down. Now, that
creates that creates we don't want to

3834
05:58:28,878 --> 05:58:34,400
get into too much detail on this, but
that creates an incremental legal risk

3835
05:58:32,558 --> 05:58:39,600
uh if we don't have other places where
some folks could park. So, to me,

3836
05:58:36,878 --> 05:58:44,400
getting getting on with item number one,
pilot number one, in terms of approving

3837
05:58:42,000 --> 05:58:48,080
that tonight, to me makes very good
sense because we have to start on that

3838
05:58:46,000 --> 05:58:52,480
and we want it to be on a faster
schedule than it's on. And once we do

3839
05:58:50,240 --> 05:58:55,840
that, the sooner we're going the sooner
we do that, the sooner we're going to

3840
05:58:53,600 --> 05:59:00,080
have actual places that people can get
in there legitimately with their parking

3841
05:58:57,600 --> 05:59:03,040
permit and those folks will be moving
out of some of the areas that they're

3842
05:59:01,520 --> 05:59:08,558
now in because we are creating new
spaces of 35 to 50 new spaces. That's

3843
05:59:05,680 --> 05:59:13,360
the important point there. But very
quickly, I think we have to shut down

3844
05:59:10,080 --> 05:59:16,958
the rest of it uh as we ramp up the the
earlier part. And the only way to do

3845
05:59:15,200 --> 05:59:22,480
that, as I've thought about it, is is
with this permit program. So, um, I just

3846
05:59:20,958 --> 05:59:27,280
want the public to understand that we
are all together on the fact that we

3847
05:59:24,000 --> 05:59:30,798
want OSVs to be basically not be gone
because we want the ones here that are

3848
05:59:28,878 --> 05:59:34,798
sort of quote deserving. And with
respect to sort of data, I'm always a

3849
05:59:32,878 --> 05:59:39,920
data guy, but we know that there are at
least 35 people of the remaining 130,

3850
05:59:38,480 --> 05:59:44,400
they're going to probably qualify for
these units if they want them. So, I'm

3851
05:59:42,558 --> 05:59:47,680
very comfortable saying that is the the
pilot is just the pilot one is justified

3852
05:59:46,718 --> 05:59:51,200
going forward. [clears throat]
So, I just sort of wanted to cover that

3853
05:59:49,440 --> 05:59:56,798
point.
And if we get those to move there, then

3854
05:59:54,480 --> 06:00:01,840
that that's a big chunk. If we extend
gang, that's a big chunk. And if we get

3855
05:59:58,798 --> 06:00:05,200
some of the 88 that are in Homekey,
that's another chunk. So, we start to

3856
06:00:03,360 --> 06:00:09,400
chip chip away at this thing with the
existing resources. Thanks.

3857
06:00:10,480 --> 06:00:17,280
» All right. Um, I just want to make a
couple of uh points.

3858
06:00:15,040 --> 06:00:22,320
Um,
first,

3859
06:00:19,200 --> 06:00:26,320
yeah, I just I
residential should be residential.

3860
06:00:23,920 --> 06:00:31,360
That's what I had thought wasa the case.
That's why I was surprised as well to

3861
06:00:28,160 --> 06:00:34,638
see uh any residential streets on this,
especially the ones in Ventura that

3862
06:00:33,040 --> 06:00:41,120
we've heard tonight are really
problematic. Um I understand now that

3863
06:00:38,558 --> 06:00:46,638
there's PC zones and PHC and various
things, but I think we need to really

3864
06:00:42,958 --> 06:00:53,600
make it uniform for all residents um uh
in PaloAlto. So that's that to me should

3865
06:00:49,200 --> 06:00:58,558
just be a uniform thing. Um
the um

3866
06:00:56,240 --> 06:01:02,798
the thing I mentioned about businesses
before, I want to sort of clarify it and

3867
06:01:00,958 --> 06:01:07,440
then uh key off of something Council
Member Bert said. Um, you know, I'm

3868
06:01:05,840 --> 06:01:11,920
using the word business, but there's a
whole lot of different kinds. And so I

3869
06:01:09,520 --> 06:01:16,958
it it's not quite right to lump them all
to business uh into one term. What I'm

3870
06:01:14,798 --> 06:01:21,600
thinking of is employees of large
businesses like Google and Stanford

3871
06:01:18,958 --> 06:01:24,958
Healthcare and Shoreline. When their
employees are dwelling in front of

3872
06:01:23,120 --> 06:01:28,958
smaller businesses on commerce and
transport and industrial and park, it's

3873
06:01:27,120 --> 06:01:32,558
almost like some businesses are
subsidizing other businesses. And I

3874
06:01:30,878 --> 06:01:38,958
don't that just doesn't make sense to
me. So, you know, there are limits on

3875
06:01:36,400 --> 06:01:43,440
what the city can ask and require of
businesses. Um, but what I mentioned

3876
06:01:41,680 --> 06:01:46,878
before, it would be great if they would
step up and provide a portion of their

3877
06:01:45,040 --> 06:01:52,718
own parking lot for their own employees.
And I think, you know, Stanford could be

3878
06:01:49,360 --> 06:01:56,958
a part of that, but there are others um
that we could ask as well. I just don't

3879
06:01:54,798 --> 06:02:00,958
know that we can demand it. But what we
might be able to do if we could discern

3880
06:01:58,638 --> 06:02:06,638
which RVs they were, which gets to my
point earlier,

3881
06:02:02,878 --> 06:02:13,280
that there could be some sort of um you
know, if you were in that situation,

3882
06:02:10,718 --> 06:02:17,680
uh if we we discerned that you were
there, then your employer would have to

3883
06:02:15,280 --> 06:02:22,718
pay into some sort of housing fund that
could get you a voucher to get you uh

3884
06:02:19,920 --> 06:02:26,878
off the street. um or they could provide
a parking spot themselves, but we could

3885
06:02:25,120 --> 06:02:34,160
try to work on that. But I think
starting with Stanford may make sense.

3886
06:02:29,040 --> 06:02:38,400
Um then um I'm curious because uh as uh
to pick up on what council member Lowing

3887
06:02:35,760 --> 06:02:43,760
was said saying
if we're looking at um transitional like

3888
06:02:41,840 --> 06:02:48,958
people transitioning in and out of these
various categories. Um you mentioned

3889
06:02:47,040 --> 06:02:54,240
earlier that you know we discovered Home
Key was full because of the people who'd

3890
06:02:50,558 --> 06:02:58,638
been in hotels but do we what I guess
this is for staff. At what pace are we

3891
06:02:56,798 --> 06:03:04,798
hoping we might have some openings? Cuz
that's a transitional thing as well. So

3892
06:03:02,400 --> 06:03:11,240
when and where and how might we expect
there could be some openings over the

3893
06:03:06,480 --> 06:03:11,240
course of the next six to 12 months.

3894
06:03:12,718 --> 06:03:22,160
» Uh thank you Mayor Vinker. Um so the
throughput for both Homekeing

3895
06:03:20,160 --> 06:03:26,638
upon sort of the housing pipeline. And
this evening we do have a representative

3896
06:03:24,240 --> 06:03:30,638
from the Office of Supportive Housing.
Um I I'm not certain if this is

3897
06:03:28,798 --> 06:03:33,920
something she could speak to, but uh we
can check.

3898
06:03:31,600 --> 06:03:38,718
» Well, she's very welcome to. She she
looks like looks like Yes.

3899
06:03:36,878 --> 06:03:44,400
» Good evening, Mayor and Council Hillary
Armstrong. Excuse me. Uh deputy director

3900
06:03:42,080 --> 06:03:51,120
with the Office of Supportive Housing.
Um first just to clarify the folks who

3901
06:03:48,240 --> 06:03:55,840
were housed at the home key PaloAlto
started in a hotel program but were all

3902
06:03:53,520 --> 06:04:00,400
unhoused PaloAltons. So the hotel
program was like the launch of the home

3903
06:03:58,878 --> 06:04:05,680
key program. I just wanted to be super
clear on that. Um in terms of the

3904
06:04:02,798 --> 06:04:10,718
throughput um we do see an average stay
in shelter programs so such as the home

3905
06:04:08,400 --> 06:04:18,000
paloto program of about 4.8 in eight
months. When we look um at our data

3906
06:04:13,760 --> 06:04:23,040
across the system, we are seeing um you
know some need to encourage more

3907
06:04:20,638 --> 06:04:27,760
movement through the system. And so our
quality assurance standards for the

3908
06:04:24,798 --> 06:04:34,958
continuum of care that apply across our
entire countywide system um have 120day

3909
06:04:32,160 --> 06:04:40,000
suggested length of stay. you know, when
folks are working on a housing plan. Um,

3910
06:04:37,520 --> 06:04:45,040
and it's contingent on the pipeline,
they can get extensions to that, but in

3911
06:04:42,080 --> 06:04:48,718
general looking at, you know, a stay of
anywhere from 3 to 6 months where we're

3912
06:04:46,958 --> 06:04:52,798
really trying to make sure that folks
are getting through.

3913
06:04:49,840 --> 06:04:58,080
» Okay. So, we can anticipate that over
the course of the next 6, 9, 12 months,

3914
06:04:55,200 --> 06:05:05,520
some number, we're not sure, of spaces
will open up. So that would um hopefully

3915
06:05:02,480 --> 06:05:10,240
be at least some outlet for people that
we're trying to transition out of say

3916
06:05:07,360 --> 06:05:18,000
the permit program were we to enact it.
Is that am I thinking about it right?

3917
06:05:14,958 --> 06:05:23,440
» Uh thank you Mayor Vinker. I I I would
caution that it's become my

3918
06:05:21,200 --> 06:05:28,798
understanding that folks in RVs are more
likely to transition directly to uh an

3919
06:05:26,638 --> 06:05:34,080
apartment rather than or to housing
rather than to a transitional space.

3920
06:05:31,120 --> 06:05:39,600
That that's not typically as attractive
to them and and sometimes they they're

3921
06:05:36,000 --> 06:05:44,080
able to transition more quickly in that
fashion.

3922
06:05:40,320 --> 06:05:49,160
» I see. Okay. All right. Okay. Okay.
Well, with that, I'll turn to Vice Mayor

3923
06:05:46,160 --> 06:05:49,160
Stone.

3924
06:05:52,080 --> 06:05:59,680
» Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um, yeah, given
the hour, I will be very concise. I I

3925
06:05:57,600 --> 06:06:05,680
agree. I think the I think the first
pilot is ready to move forward. That's

3926
06:06:03,040 --> 06:06:12,878
kind of the original my original kind of
vision of where this was all heading was

3927
06:06:08,160 --> 06:06:17,520
really a permit program. love the I love
the suggestion that we're going to

3928
06:06:14,240 --> 06:06:24,000
incorporate services there. It is a very
reasonable cost. I I think that is a

3929
06:06:21,120 --> 06:06:28,638
win-win all around. I know ultimately it
comes down to space and identifying

3930
06:06:26,878 --> 06:06:33,520
additional locations, but it's a pilot
program. So, I think let's get that

3931
06:06:30,718 --> 06:06:39,440
started as quickly as possible. I agree
with comments already. I think the

3932
06:06:35,040 --> 06:06:44,400
second pilot is not ready to to go. I
think that needs a lot of work. I think

3933
06:06:41,440 --> 06:06:49,840
the uh the heat map I described earlier
is is going to be really beneficial for

3934
06:06:46,558 --> 06:06:53,920
me to ensure that we are equitably
spreading these um these impacted

3935
06:06:52,160 --> 06:06:59,360
streets around the community. I think
more work can be done there. I I think

3936
06:06:56,558 --> 06:07:03,840
absolutely the the ad hoc committee
needs to be kind of brought into this

3937
06:07:00,798 --> 06:07:09,440
discussion and be able to do that that
deeper dive. Uh I also thought that

3938
06:07:07,680 --> 06:07:13,440
there was general alignment on the
council the last time that we didn't

3939
06:07:11,440 --> 06:07:19,360
want to see this on residential and
residential adjacent streets. So Ventura

3940
06:07:16,320 --> 06:07:25,120
neighborhoods has greatly s surprised
me. Uh I think one one thought I know

3941
06:07:23,760 --> 06:07:30,240
it's just going to give us a couple of
spaces but in the idea of equity and

3942
06:07:27,840 --> 06:07:35,520
making sure that we are all taking on
this burden. police department is is

3943
06:07:33,440 --> 06:07:39,840
moving out right now. And I know on
Brian Street is where we've

3944
06:07:37,760 --> 06:07:44,240
traditionally parked several uh police
vehicles, including our command uh

3945
06:07:42,878 --> 06:07:48,638
including the command vehicle, which is
definitely the size of a large OSV. I

3946
06:07:47,200 --> 06:07:53,680
think that should be included in that
future program. If it's good enough for

3947
06:07:50,798 --> 06:07:59,040
other businesses to have OSVs in front
of their businesses, it should be good

3948
06:07:55,840 --> 06:08:03,360
enough for us at city hall to have uh to
have our share as as well. Also, I think

3949
06:08:01,360 --> 06:08:07,840
there are opportunities for us to be
able to find additional locations um

3950
06:08:05,680 --> 06:08:13,600
around the comm around the community,
but I don't think we're there yet to

3951
06:08:10,080 --> 06:08:18,558
authorize the um the second pilot
program.

3952
06:08:15,280 --> 06:08:22,080
And yeah, with that, I'll leave it
there. Thank you,

3953
06:08:20,400 --> 06:08:26,320
» Council Member Lou.
>> Thank you. Uh firstly, I'll just note

3954
06:08:24,480 --> 06:08:31,280
that I appreciate the public comment. I
live basically on Page Mill, though on

3955
06:08:28,480 --> 06:08:36,798
the Mayfield side, so I'm a block away
uh about from several of these suggested

3956
06:08:33,680 --> 06:08:42,000
pilot sites. Um my wife and I uh were
looking at child care in the Ventura

3957
06:08:38,958 --> 06:08:46,080
area when uh directly adjacent to uh
some of these sites. I get the concerns.

3958
06:08:44,160 --> 06:08:50,718
I do get it. I think we do need to keep
bike lanes clear and find balance uh

3959
06:08:48,638 --> 06:08:55,680
throughout the city. I certainly don't
think we should ban all RVs, though. And

3960
06:08:52,638 --> 06:09:00,480
I think the uh
uh

3961
06:08:57,200 --> 06:09:07,920
uh first phase of the pilot is including
on both sides of Coyote Hill um seems

3962
06:09:03,520 --> 06:09:12,878
like a clear uh win and a clear benefit
to both people who live in RVs and the

3963
06:09:10,638 --> 06:09:16,958
broader community. Um the only thing
I'll note about that first phase is that

3964
06:09:15,520 --> 06:09:21,680
uh I'm not even sure if we really need
to collect a $15 permit fee per month. I

3965
06:09:19,360 --> 06:09:28,080
think the cost to collect that might be
higher than the actual value of that.

3966
06:09:24,718 --> 06:09:31,360
And uh to the extent that we sort of
just want people to buy in and sort of

3967
06:09:30,000 --> 06:09:35,920
have a stake that it's more of a
symbolic cost, we already have uh a

3968
06:09:34,240 --> 06:09:39,280
number of agreements, insurance
requirements, things uh that are real

3969
06:09:38,080 --> 06:09:45,280
hoops that they would need to jump
through. So I don't think we really need

3970
06:09:41,440 --> 06:09:51,920
a $15 fee um on that pilot for the first
part. For the second part, uh

3971
06:09:50,000 --> 06:09:57,280
I really do appreciate the work from
staff and the ad hoc. It is really

3972
06:09:54,480 --> 06:10:00,718
clearly well intention that by moving
RVs that are already on these streets to

3973
06:09:59,200 --> 06:10:06,240
one side that there might actually be
less RV capacity. Uh

3974
06:10:04,240 --> 06:10:14,080
however, I think if we actually do
announce and publicize this program as

3975
06:10:08,480 --> 06:10:18,400
such that uh the 116 to 125 spaces we've
allocated

3976
06:10:16,400 --> 06:10:23,360
uh for any given site could get quite
dense. Um,

3977
06:10:21,200 --> 06:10:28,638
uh, you know, no one knows in
expectation exactly where it could land,

3978
06:10:25,280 --> 06:10:33,280
but maybe, uh, if we end up with a 100
RVs sort of densely configured on one

3979
06:10:31,200 --> 06:10:40,160
side of several streets, that that is
maybe actually not preferable to the

3980
06:10:36,480 --> 06:10:46,798
current state of about 130 RVs, but sort
of slightly more spread. like uh I

3981
06:10:45,120 --> 06:10:51,440
find it interesting that in this
conversation we heard from some

3982
06:10:49,120 --> 06:10:57,600
nonprofit community groups and some RV
residents and uh certainly a lot of

3983
06:10:54,638 --> 06:11:02,080
neighbors that actually weren't in favor
of this second part of the pilot. And I

3984
06:11:00,878 --> 06:11:10,000
don't think those groups necessarily
agree on any of the other next steps,

3985
06:11:04,240 --> 06:11:15,040
but at least um uh that sort of strange
consensus does make me have second

3986
06:11:12,320 --> 06:11:22,958
thoughts about this uh second part of
the pilot. Uh uh

3987
06:11:19,200 --> 06:11:29,120
um I'll echo the point that we can
probably find spaces in North Pole Alto.

3988
06:11:25,520 --> 06:11:35,760
Um there are uh
areas in Sofa or uh

3989
06:11:33,360 --> 06:11:41,120
right right by city hall like corners of
that um maybe in Cena maybe parts maybe

3990
06:11:38,958 --> 06:11:45,040
like a small parts in your fire station
one where

3991
06:11:43,360 --> 06:11:51,760
uh
we can make that heat map less striking

3992
06:11:48,160 --> 06:11:56,320
than it is right now which is uh quite
concentrated in North Ventura in a

3993
06:11:53,600 --> 06:12:03,040
couple parts uh and uh couple other
parts of South Paul Alto. Um so yeah, uh

3994
06:12:00,718 --> 06:12:09,360
hopefully that's useful context and I'm
happy to support uh whatever motion um

3995
06:12:06,400 --> 06:12:14,920
and consensus this we seem to be pointed
to.

3996
06:12:11,280 --> 06:12:14,920
» Council member Rectal.

3997
06:12:17,200 --> 06:12:25,520
» Yeah.
Yeah. Uh, council member Lead Hayes was

3998
06:12:23,600 --> 06:12:28,638
making a point that the reason these
streets are on the list at all is

3999
06:12:27,200 --> 06:12:33,120
because they were the most impacted by
RVs. It's not like we chose them. The

4000
06:12:30,878 --> 06:12:36,798
RVs chose them and we're trying to give
them a relief valve and it's not

4001
06:12:35,040 --> 06:12:41,920
appreciated apparently. So, I'm not
going to push it, but uh the purpose was

4002
06:12:39,760 --> 06:12:48,400
is to reduce the amount of RVs in those
neighborhoods. Uh, I do really feel

4003
06:12:44,480 --> 06:12:52,878
strongly though that we should um limit
RV parking near residences even if those

4004
06:12:50,958 --> 06:13:00,400
residences aren't in a traditional
residential zone and also say within 100

4005
06:12:57,920 --> 06:13:04,958
yards of a residence. So, we don't want
the right on the the poor people that

4006
06:13:02,558 --> 06:13:09,440
are right on the transition zone get an
RV right next to their house. I I think

4007
06:13:07,840 --> 06:13:14,240
that that would be a reasonable
approach.

4008
06:13:12,400 --> 06:13:18,400
That's all.
>> Council member Liths.

4009
06:13:17,040 --> 06:13:23,200
» Thank you, Mayor. And thank you
everybody for being here late. I'm

4010
06:13:20,558 --> 06:13:28,480
yawning like a lion over here and some
of you may be tired as well. Um glad to

4011
06:13:25,840 --> 06:13:34,480
hear the support for pilot number one. I
think um that's exciting. Um and have I

4012
06:13:32,878 --> 06:13:38,240
took a lot of notes on all the comments
that were made. I was really listening

4013
06:13:36,240 --> 06:13:45,920
and I know my colleagues were as well in
terms of your concerns. Um, I wanted to

4014
06:13:42,240 --> 06:13:50,638
plus one the um notion or plus two or
three by this point that we've got to

4015
06:13:48,558 --> 06:13:55,760
engage business owners. The public
speaker who yanked on his employee tag

4016
06:13:53,840 --> 06:13:59,360
and said, "If you could get my employer
to let me park in his lot, then I

4017
06:13:58,080 --> 06:14:04,638
wouldn't have to park on the street in
my RV." There you are. Um, Raleigh or

4018
06:14:02,240 --> 06:14:09,520
something.
>> Okay. Um, I thought that was really

4019
06:14:07,360 --> 06:14:11,920
compelling and it's hard for us to make
that happen from here. We're going to

4020
06:14:10,798 --> 06:14:16,320
have to figure out how to make that
happen. But that's clearly an important

4021
06:14:14,320 --> 06:14:20,160
sector here. The [snorts] notion that we
need to spend more time engaging with

4022
06:14:18,000 --> 06:14:23,680
Stanford about what role they want to
play in this, particularly as they're

4023
06:14:21,360 --> 06:14:27,600
going out for their next general use
permit in the community. This is a very

4024
06:14:25,200 --> 06:14:35,120
ripe time to be talking with the largest
land owner um about this seemingly

4025
06:14:30,638 --> 06:14:40,480
intractable problem. Um, I do, Council
Member Rectal already clarified what I

4026
06:14:36,958 --> 06:14:46,638
was whispering to him, which was, um, we
didn't go after Olive and Ash and Park

4027
06:14:44,160 --> 06:14:50,958
or commercial, industrial, etc. These
were the streets that had been

4028
06:14:48,400 --> 06:14:54,320
identified as the most impacted that
needed street sweeping and cleaning and

4029
06:14:52,638 --> 06:14:59,520
whatnot. So we had that in mind as
needing help and we were trying to

4030
06:14:56,320 --> 06:15:04,558
reduce the amount of density of OSVs on
those streets, not burden them any

4031
06:15:02,080 --> 06:15:09,120
further. Um so I feel like that's a
perception problem. It's very valid that

4032
06:15:06,638 --> 06:15:12,718
you perceived it that way. Um but in
terms of where we were coming from, that

4033
06:15:10,718 --> 06:15:17,840
was certainly not our intent. I
certainly share the concern about equity

4034
06:15:15,280 --> 06:15:22,080
being a you know a lens through which we
have to view all things and uh we

4035
06:15:20,320 --> 06:15:26,798
definitely think that burdens ought to
be shared in this city. So very much

4036
06:15:24,080 --> 06:15:31,520
appreciate the push back there. The last
thing that I want to say is I'm slightly

4037
06:15:28,958 --> 06:15:35,520
concerned about the vigilanteism.
I think that some RV dwellers are being

4038
06:15:33,920 --> 06:15:39,040
followed and their activities are being
recorded and somebody went around and

4039
06:15:37,040 --> 06:15:43,040
put stickers on their vehicles saying
this is illegal. You will be towed. And

4040
06:15:41,200 --> 06:15:47,840
I asked our police chief, "Did you put
these stickers on?" And he said, "No."

4041
06:15:45,600 --> 06:15:53,680
And sometimes that kind of behavior can
border on harassment. And uh it may also

4042
06:15:51,040 --> 06:16:00,798
be vandalism. And so I just want to ask
all of us like, let's not

4043
06:15:58,000 --> 06:16:05,840
let this become
an even bigger problem. Let's try to

4044
06:16:03,920 --> 06:16:09,040
work together toward a solution that is
going to work for everybody. And you

4045
06:16:08,000 --> 06:16:11,920
know there have been comments about
we're better than this and this is not

4046
06:16:10,240 --> 06:16:17,760
who we are and all of this and you know
we're many people on opposite sides of

4047
06:16:13,920 --> 06:16:23,040
this issue and um I think we need more
listening and we need to have the

4048
06:16:19,920 --> 06:16:28,400
frustrations be heard and tempers cooled
um because it's it's getting a little

4049
06:16:25,760 --> 06:16:32,320
it's it's it's been ugly out there for
some while as some of you have said and

4050
06:16:30,000 --> 06:16:36,000
it's getting uglier in some ways and
none of us want that. So we're going to

4051
06:16:34,320 --> 06:16:40,400
work on this pilot. I think it sounds
like there's support for pilot one that

4052
06:16:37,680 --> 06:16:47,760
may be fulmenting over here and you know
like let's root for it to be um useful

4053
06:16:43,920 --> 06:16:53,280
and and yield data um and let's root for
it to be successful at moving people to

4054
06:16:50,480 --> 06:16:57,440
a place that is better for the you know
those they're leaving behind and is

4055
06:16:54,798 --> 06:17:02,878
better for them um as more housing gets
built and more parking lots get

4056
06:16:59,120 --> 06:17:06,958
identified um I I look forward to us
being uh proud of solutions we were able

4057
06:17:05,520 --> 06:17:12,040
to come up with together. I know we're
not yet there, but I think that day will

4058
06:17:09,040 --> 06:17:12,040
come.

4059
06:17:16,160 --> 06:17:23,280
» Council member Bert,
>> I'm ready to make a motion if everybody

4060
06:17:21,760 --> 06:17:31,280
» Yeah, I think I think that's a good
idea. Yeah, I was scribbling one, but

4061
06:17:27,120 --> 06:17:38,080
» I would move that uh we
adopt

4062
06:17:33,920 --> 06:17:46,558
uh staff recommendation one,
which is the

4063
06:17:40,798 --> 06:17:52,958
um the permit phase one pilot
and that we give additional direction to

4064
06:17:49,680 --> 06:17:59,360
staff in the following ways.
Uh

4065
06:17:55,600 --> 06:18:06,400
first that we um
begin to uh provide uh red curb

4066
06:18:04,718 --> 06:18:15,680
daylighting
uh in the commercial areas that were uh

4067
06:18:11,520 --> 06:18:23,160
identified for the phase 2 pilot.
and uh that we evaluate a a 10- ft uh

4068
06:18:20,160 --> 06:18:23,160
daylighting.

4069
06:18:23,200 --> 06:18:35,280
Uh second that we uh staff come back
with u uh appropriate um I guess

4070
06:18:30,958 --> 06:18:43,280
ordinance changes to uh recognize that
residential including uh PCs be treated

4071
06:18:40,320 --> 06:18:49,280
in the same as residential
uh uh zoning.

4072
06:18:46,000 --> 06:19:01,040
» Some are also zoned mixed use too. So
>> okay PCs and mixed use. Yep. um

4073
06:18:55,520 --> 06:19:07,040
that um any future consideration of a
phase 2 pilot

4074
06:19:03,680 --> 06:19:12,798
exclude streets that are
um

4075
06:19:09,200 --> 06:19:20,480
uh have significant residential
components or a uh a bike boulevard or

4076
06:19:17,760 --> 06:19:27,958
excuse me bike lane that would be Park,
Olive, Lambert and I think Ash.

4077
06:19:24,958 --> 06:19:27,958
Um

4078
06:19:28,480 --> 06:19:31,480
and

4079
06:19:32,000 --> 06:19:43,440
oh uh lastly that uh staff pursue
uh data collection to have a better

4080
06:19:40,320 --> 06:19:48,840
understanding of the demographics
of our current RV population.

4081
06:19:52,798 --> 06:20:01,120
I'll second that.
>> Okay.

4082
06:19:57,040 --> 06:20:05,520
Uh I think I've spoken enough.
>> One question [clears throat] for the uh

4083
06:20:03,760 --> 06:20:09,120
residential parking restrictions. Was
that going forward or do you want to

4084
06:20:06,958 --> 06:20:15,200
change that today? [clears throat]
>> Well, we we can't do it today. I think

4085
06:20:11,280 --> 06:20:20,718
we have to ask staff to return with with
uh revisions to our ordinance.

4086
06:20:17,760 --> 06:20:25,040
» Correct. I I and uh depending on the
complexity of those changes, we may want

4087
06:20:23,040 --> 06:20:29,760
the ad hoc to weigh in on it, but I
think it's relatively straightforward.

4088
06:20:27,120 --> 06:20:33,280
» Yeah, I shouldn't say today. But were
you did you How did you word that?

4089
06:20:31,760 --> 06:20:37,200
Where's the wording?
>> Um

4090
06:20:35,280 --> 06:20:43,760
I don't know. We'll see how M May Maha
did. But I thought that I had um

4091
06:20:39,680 --> 06:20:48,080
requested that staff return with um
>> I thought you said for future

4092
06:20:46,480 --> 06:20:51,040
planning.
Well, let's see what

4093
06:20:49,040 --> 06:20:55,680
» we'll see. I think on the residential
was it my intention was that that would

4094
06:20:53,920 --> 06:20:58,680
be addressed either way.
>> Okay.

4095
06:21:00,160 --> 06:21:09,440
» Question. Would you be interested in
adding um

4096
06:21:05,920 --> 06:21:13,280
a direction to staff to investigate with
Stanford and other large employers? Um

4097
06:21:12,718 --> 06:21:16,320
» yes
>> something

4098
06:21:14,160 --> 06:21:25,200
» I'll [laughter] make a so that would be
fine is to um explore with major

4099
06:21:20,160 --> 06:21:30,798
employers um uh their willingness to
accommodate workers who reside in RVs

4100
06:21:28,718 --> 06:21:37,280
their workers who reside in RVs on their
sites. I will make a side note that uh

4101
06:21:33,680 --> 06:21:43,760
in my 30 plus years of having a business
uh two different times I had an employee

4102
06:21:39,440 --> 06:21:48,798
who uh asked to be able to if they could
reside uh on during the week on our

4103
06:21:46,638 --> 06:21:52,878
parking lot and we were more than
willing to because it added to security.

4104
06:21:50,798 --> 06:21:57,680
We knew who that person was. They were
eyes and ears on our property. So, I

4105
06:21:56,000 --> 06:22:03,400
don't know if we can convince other
employers to do that, but um we viewed

4106
06:22:00,000 --> 06:22:03,400
it as beneficial.

4107
06:22:03,600 --> 06:22:09,280
» Council member Low, I guess.
>> Yes. Um we need to add to I believe we

4108
06:22:07,840 --> 06:22:15,600
need to add to that shortening of the
current schedule of seven months to get

4109
06:22:11,520 --> 06:22:20,718
to a pilot. Um well, the the first pilot
was January 1st, right? So, that's

4110
06:22:18,400 --> 06:22:24,080
that's basically four months. Is that
correct?

4111
06:22:22,400 --> 06:22:30,958
» Uh please please repeat the question,
council member. when uh the the timing

4112
06:22:27,120 --> 06:22:32,480
on the permitted pilot, when was that to
take effect?

4113
06:22:31,920 --> 06:22:36,958
» March.
>> March.

4114
06:22:33,840 --> 06:22:41,760
» So, can we if we're not proceeding with
a second pilot, can we move the We'd

4115
06:22:40,000 --> 06:22:44,638
like, I think, to move the first pilot
to January 1st.

4116
06:22:43,280 --> 06:22:49,040
» Yeah,
>> I think staff will need to take a look

4117
06:22:46,878 --> 06:22:56,400
at what we can do to accelerate that.
And at the same time, we hear you

4118
06:22:52,558 --> 06:22:58,958
» include in the motion to pursue a target
date of January 1st.

4119
06:22:57,680 --> 06:23:01,200
» Yeah, that's the direction.
>> Yeah.

4120
06:22:59,520 --> 06:23:06,878
» And Council Member Bert, we'll need to
add up the uh we'll have to change the

4121
06:23:04,480 --> 06:23:13,280
budget appropriation um as part of this
motion to ensure that the budget for the

4122
06:23:10,240 --> 06:23:17,760
the phase the option one is in there and
not for the option two.

4123
06:23:14,798 --> 06:23:24,400
» Okay. Um so then in the language maybe
this we could either put that the budget

4124
06:23:20,878 --> 06:23:31,638
allocation in or uh simply say an
accompanying uh uh uh uh uh budget

4125
06:23:28,638 --> 06:23:31,638
allocations

4126
06:23:32,480 --> 06:23:38,280
or if staff has better language I'm
certainly welcome.

4127
06:23:40,480 --> 06:23:49,280
Would you accept a friendly amendment
related to pursuing future locations?

4128
06:23:46,878 --> 06:23:54,240
Something like directing staff to
continue to work with county, state, and

4129
06:23:51,440 --> 06:23:59,760
federal partners on identifying
additional land for safe parking.

4130
06:23:56,958 --> 06:24:05,120
» Yes. And I your point makes me realize I
did not include

4131
06:24:01,680 --> 06:24:09,600
uh requesting staff to pursue both sides
of Coyote.

4132
06:24:07,200 --> 06:24:14,718
So, two things going to be a long
motion, but it's late night, so we might

4133
06:24:11,120 --> 06:24:18,718
as well make a long motion. Um, so Maha
under um

4134
06:24:17,120 --> 06:24:27,360
uh
I guess we'll make another section that

4135
06:24:20,798 --> 06:24:33,840
is um request staff to explore
um or continue to pursue

4136
06:24:30,400 --> 06:24:40,080
um the uh permitted pilot program on
both sides of Coyote Hill Road.

4137
06:24:37,520 --> 06:24:44,000
And second,
uh, Council Member Lithcott Hayes, you

4138
06:24:42,798 --> 06:24:49,440
have your preferred,
>> uh, direct staff to continue to

4139
06:24:47,680 --> 06:24:54,638
seek
safe parking

4140
06:24:51,760 --> 06:25:00,558
solutions in collaboration with the
county, the state, and federal partners.

4141
06:24:57,600 --> 06:25:01,920
» Sure. We'll throw in the UN
>> and the UN.

4142
06:25:01,520 --> 06:25:05,200
» Yeah.
>> We'd like the United Nations to come

4143
06:25:03,440 --> 06:25:09,840
here and solve this for us, please.
>> Okay. public and private partners.

4144
06:25:07,280 --> 06:25:14,240
» Maker secondary, are you good? Okay. Uh
just if I could for clarification, I

4145
06:25:11,760 --> 06:25:18,558
think I assume council member Leth is
referring to other locations as well in

4146
06:25:16,638 --> 06:25:20,558
addition to the
>> Yes.

4147
06:25:18,958 --> 06:25:24,000
» Coyote Hill and Embark.
>> I am most definitely. I'm thinking about

4148
06:25:22,000 --> 06:25:28,638
Moffett Field. I'm thinking about
Yellows. The final thing is the golf

4149
06:25:26,080 --> 06:25:32,638
course. The It's the um portion of
Embarcadero,

4150
06:25:30,160 --> 06:25:37,920
the north edge of Embarcadero, sort of
between the waste treatment plant. Uh

4151
06:25:34,958 --> 06:25:42,000
well on the airport and golf course side
um

4152
06:25:39,920 --> 06:25:49,520
» can we ask look at that?
>> I'm hesitant to do that. Um you know

4153
06:25:45,120 --> 06:25:55,840
that's uh uh
I I think that it it could be

4154
06:25:51,600 --> 06:26:00,240
detrimental to the um to the the revenue
of the uh of the city golf course there.

4155
06:25:58,480 --> 06:26:02,878
So I'm hesitant to do that. But it's
easy to roll out if the first part of it

4156
06:26:02,240 --> 06:26:08,240
works.
>> Yeah. the down by the airport works.

4157
06:26:06,080 --> 06:26:12,160
It's an easy ad.
>> I just hate for it to be lost as an

4158
06:26:09,840 --> 06:26:13,680
idea. I know I'm not long for this
world.

4159
06:26:12,718 --> 06:26:17,760
» Well, um I would
>> I got the idea right.

4160
06:26:15,040 --> 06:26:26,320
» Got it. But I it it strikes me that I I
I would be uh willing to include u Vice

4161
06:26:22,480 --> 06:26:35,280
Mayor Stone's suggestion that um that
the um um

4162
06:26:29,440 --> 06:26:40,638
west side of Bryant uh be pursued as um
uh uh

4163
06:26:37,760 --> 06:26:45,120
basically I don't know how we do it. I'm
sorry. I am going to speak out loud

4164
06:26:42,080 --> 06:26:52,718
before uh offering the uh amended
language. Uh in the downtown we have our

4165
06:26:48,000 --> 06:26:56,798
our u color zone parking and in order to
allow RVs there, we'd have to not have

4166
06:26:54,958 --> 06:27:01,600
color zone parking there. But I don't
know how you'd restrict the parking to

4167
06:26:59,360 --> 06:27:07,840
just RVs versus other vehicles that
would park overnight there. So, uh, I

4168
06:27:04,718 --> 06:27:16,080
let me just add to the motion for staff
to explore any other sites that would be

4169
06:27:12,240 --> 06:27:23,360
eligible for RV parking in um the
greater downtown area. Just explore and

4170
06:27:19,200 --> 06:27:29,600
that's all it is. Get on the radar.
And would you be willing at the end of

4171
06:27:25,920 --> 06:27:32,558
eight to say um federal and private
partners because I want to make sure

4172
06:27:30,878 --> 06:27:35,840
we're still you know keep our feelers
out even though we've been turned down

4173
06:27:33,840 --> 06:27:38,160
repeatedly.
>> Yeah.

4174
06:27:36,558 --> 06:27:40,798
» Yeah. If we didn't I guess we didn't
have that elsewhere and that would be

4175
06:27:39,760 --> 06:27:43,760
» I don't think so.
>> Okay. And that would be fine.

4176
06:27:42,400 --> 06:27:47,920
» Thank you.
>> Oh six.

4177
06:27:45,360 --> 06:27:50,718
» Oh yeah that's the employers.
Yeah.

4178
06:27:48,478 --> 06:27:54,320
» Does six cover it in more detail? You
know what? That's different because 60

4179
06:27:52,320 --> 06:27:56,718
is contemplating employers with going
businesses with

4180
06:27:55,920 --> 06:28:00,638
» Okay.
>> And to the clerk, there's a just a

4181
06:27:58,478 --> 06:28:07,478
clerical thing on eight direct staff to
continue to seek instead of see. You

4182
06:28:03,120 --> 06:28:07,478
need a K on the end of that word.

4183
06:28:08,160 --> 06:28:17,520
» Okay. Council member Lou,
>> uh, quick point about the $15 fee. I am

4184
06:28:15,760 --> 06:28:22,558
a little bit concerned that a $15 fee
per month would actually be a somewhat

4185
06:28:20,240 --> 06:28:28,000
meaningful disincentive to participation
in the first part of the pilot. I'm

4186
06:28:24,718 --> 06:28:31,680
curious if staff has any perspective of
uh

4187
06:28:30,000 --> 06:28:36,798
how they feel if they feel strongly
about that $15 fee and if there's no

4188
06:28:34,878 --> 06:28:41,440
particularly strong feeling. did hear
from staff earlier that they in the

4189
06:28:38,558 --> 06:28:45,878
outreach that that was uh that formula
was viewed as acceptable, but

4190
06:28:46,638 --> 06:28:54,160
» we definitely heard feedback on this
from um Sophie Piggman who is uh on

4191
06:28:52,400 --> 06:28:59,920
staff and working in the outreach
context and the feedback she got was

4192
06:28:56,160 --> 06:29:04,958
that $15 was reasonable. We thought
about going higher and we got some push

4193
06:29:02,400 --> 06:29:08,718
back that higher was a deterrent, but
$15 felt reasonable and also valuable

4194
06:29:07,120 --> 06:29:12,718
for people to have a little bit of skin
in the game.

4195
06:29:09,920 --> 06:29:19,280
» Okay.
I feel like they could still have skin

4196
06:29:14,160 --> 06:29:25,040
in the game at zero, but uh don't
feel extremely strongly about this

4197
06:29:21,600 --> 06:29:28,958
point. uh council members. So there
there was some back and forth for sure

4198
06:29:26,958 --> 06:29:33,360
about uh what would be reasonable, what
wouldn't. And there were some

4199
06:29:30,320 --> 06:29:38,798
suggestions of much higher $50, others
suggesting we just wave it entirely. And

4200
06:29:36,000 --> 06:29:44,320
I think the the happy not so happy
answer we came to was 15. Um with the

4201
06:29:41,520 --> 06:29:48,718
understanding that perhaps uh you know,
local nonprofits might be able to help

4202
06:29:46,558 --> 06:29:52,360
folks if they needed need a little boost
with that dollar amount.

4203
06:29:52,958 --> 06:30:01,200
I think that's pretty nominal and it it
it actually kind of in a nominal way

4204
06:29:58,320 --> 06:30:04,558
requires some commitment from those uh
dwellers. So,

4205
06:30:02,558 --> 06:30:07,120
» and it'll be tested in the pilot. So, we
can change it if it doesn't work.

4206
06:30:05,920 --> 06:30:12,638
» Okay.
>> All right. I don't see any lights.

4207
06:30:09,840 --> 06:30:18,878
» I I wanted to point out that part of the
Sorry, almost there. Um the motion uh

4208
06:30:16,638 --> 06:30:23,280
takes into account the work for the
first pilot, but it doesn't bring in the

4209
06:30:21,120 --> 06:30:26,878
subsequent budget amendments which were
uh a combination of items three and four

4210
06:30:25,360 --> 06:30:31,680
in the staff report.
>> Well, yes, that's what I had asked for

4211
06:30:28,638 --> 06:30:36,718
staff to provide what wording would be.
>> Yes. So, I just want to make sure um the

4212
06:30:34,080 --> 06:30:40,958
easiest way at 11452
might be to uh approve those budget

4213
06:30:39,120 --> 06:30:45,120
amendments and subtract out whatever is
related to the second pilot program if

4214
06:30:42,878 --> 06:30:47,680
you're approving the first. But only if
that's accurate.

4215
06:30:46,240 --> 06:30:53,760
» Well,
>> and I think uh wording to that effect

4216
06:30:50,638 --> 06:30:59,040
would be fine. I think we would also
want to recognize that I believe as

4217
06:30:55,600 --> 06:31:04,558
scoped it's a larger pilot one because
we're now talking about both sides of

4218
06:31:01,040 --> 06:31:07,120
Coyote Hall Road. So for the if
allow us that general direction, you'll

4219
06:31:06,400 --> 06:31:12,320
figure out the math.
>> I think that's that's it. So the general

4220
06:31:08,798 --> 06:31:18,958
direction would be to the effect of uh
and um the appropriate

4221
06:31:16,558 --> 06:31:22,920
uh proportionate
>> appropriations

4222
06:31:19,920 --> 06:31:22,920
» appropriation.

4223
06:31:27,440 --> 06:31:37,040
Did the clerk get that?
Sorry, it's getting so long. I can't

4224
06:31:35,600 --> 06:31:40,280
I think madam clerk just let us know
when you're

4225
06:31:41,520 --> 06:31:45,920
» You can make it number 10 if you want
to.

4226
06:31:43,920 --> 06:31:48,920
» Probably doesn't fit on the page on the
screen.

4227
06:31:51,496 --> 06:31:53,516
[laughter]

4228
06:32:10,240 --> 06:32:14,478
We may have a new record on motion
length.

4229
06:32:12,958 --> 06:32:18,600
» I think so. Yeah, it won't fit on the
screen even if the smaller font.

4230
06:32:26,558 --> 06:32:29,520
» Okay.

4231
06:32:30,160 --> 06:32:36,400
Keith, your lights's on your microphone
but not here. Are you good? Okay.

4232
06:32:34,070 --> 06:32:39,120
[laughter] Just checking. All right.
Staff, any any anything more? Deputy

4233
06:32:38,160 --> 06:32:45,280
city manager.
>> No.

4234
06:32:41,280 --> 06:32:49,200
Okay. All right. Well,
Madam Clerk,

4235
06:32:46,878 --> 06:32:54,160
» one word smithing thing. I'm sorry. Uh
in number two, if we could just change

4236
06:32:51,040 --> 06:32:59,840
the word from phase two pilot to pilot
two or something because this whole part

4237
06:32:56,558 --> 06:33:04,440
is phase two.
>> Thank you.

4238
06:33:00,400 --> 06:33:04,440
» Okay. Pilot two.

4239
06:33:08,320 --> 06:33:11,638
» No. Uh

4240
06:33:15,040 --> 06:33:20,840
so new wording will simply be pilot two.
Would

4241
06:33:23,760 --> 06:33:29,000
that also be in the same case for number
four?

4242
06:33:29,600 --> 06:33:32,000
» Yes.
>> Okay.

4243
06:33:30,798 --> 06:33:35,958
» But it's okay.
>> Yeah, she's got it. Okay.

4244
06:33:37,920 --> 06:33:45,280
Okay.
Any any more typos? Going once. Going

4245
06:33:42,878 --> 06:33:48,718
twice. All right. Madam clerk, would you
please call the role? Council member

4246
06:33:46,718 --> 06:33:50,798
Liths,
>> yes. Mayor Vinker,

4247
06:33:50,400 --> 06:33:52,400
» yes.
>> Council member Rectal,

4248
06:33:52,000 --> 06:33:54,160
» yes.
>> Council member Bert,

4249
06:33:53,600 --> 06:33:55,760
» yes.
>> Council member Lowing,

4250
06:33:55,440 --> 06:33:57,040
» yes.
>> Vice Mayor Stone,

4251
06:33:56,718 --> 06:33:58,478
» yes.
>> Council member Lou,

4252
06:33:58,160 --> 06:34:02,718
» yes.
>> Motion carries unanimously.

4253
06:34:01,440 --> 06:34:06,320
» All right. Well, thank you all very
much. But you can't leave because we

4254
06:34:04,240 --> 06:34:10,558
have our new public comment for matters
not on the agenda on Zoom. [laughter]

4255
06:34:08,558 --> 06:34:18,400
But this does end this agenda item. And
thank you to all who got us here. Okay,

4256
06:34:14,718 --> 06:34:24,240
madame clerk, is there any um
public general public comment via Zoom?

4257
06:34:22,000 --> 06:34:28,718
» No hands are raised on Zoom.
>> All right, we did it. All right, thank

4258
06:34:26,000 --> 06:34:31,840
you all. Stand. Nope. Oh,
>> there is one hand raised in

4259
06:34:30,160 --> 06:34:36,320
» one hand raised. All right, let let's
let's do it.

4260
06:34:32,878 --> 06:34:41,878
» All right. Um
our one speaker is Aram F.

4261
06:34:48,638 --> 06:34:56,240
Okay, thank you very much. It's been a
long night. Okay, so you know, the bulk

4262
06:34:53,680 --> 06:35:03,520
of the folks here on council identify as
being Democrats except for Julie um and

4263
06:35:00,320 --> 06:35:08,558
George. Now, uh I see everybody else
really uh right-wing Republicans in

4264
06:35:06,400 --> 06:35:13,920
their their perspective.
And one of the things that's that's

4265
06:35:10,798 --> 06:35:20,000
concerning me is that even though there
are folks on council who um claim to be

4266
06:35:18,400 --> 06:35:25,920
transparent, it's not so. And we're
seeing a movement among progressive

4267
06:35:22,958 --> 06:35:30,718
Democrats that they are are prevailing
in these elections across the country

4268
06:35:27,920 --> 06:35:37,840
and they're beating Zionist candidates
even when Apac is loading up tons of

4269
06:35:33,920 --> 06:35:41,520
money to support these right-wing uh uh
Zionist candidates.

4270
06:35:39,920 --> 06:35:47,360
The the left is coming back and they're
coming back in a strong way. But when I

4271
06:35:44,160 --> 06:35:52,000
try to get information from a person who
I know to be a Zionist, I don't have

4272
06:35:50,080 --> 06:35:58,798
your support in trying to push that
individual, okay, to be transparent, a

4273
06:35:55,680 --> 06:36:03,200
weapons maker to boot, okay, he standing
up and I guess not paying any attention,

4274
06:36:01,120 --> 06:36:07,760
uh, as I might anticipate, but I've
repeatedly made the offer to him to

4275
06:36:06,160 --> 06:36:11,600
Yeah, he's going to walk out of the out
of the meeting and and not listen. That

4276
06:36:09,760 --> 06:36:15,680
that's good. Go ahead. you know, you you
you take off if that's the way you want

4277
06:36:13,440 --> 06:36:20,000
to treat the public. But I'm serious
about wanting to know whether he got

4278
06:36:17,600 --> 06:36:25,120
support from Apac, whether he's a dual
citizen of Israel, and whether he's ever

4279
06:36:22,638 --> 06:36:31,600
apologized for the weapons that the
company that he works for

4280
06:36:27,680 --> 06:36:36,478
makes that kill indisputably
Palestinians on a regular basis. He's

4281
06:36:33,760 --> 06:36:41,760
been there for 25 years plus. So that's
that that's not just trying to be uh uh

4282
06:36:39,600 --> 06:36:45,840
u you know provoking people or being
provocative. It's something that the

4283
06:36:44,240 --> 06:36:50,958
voters are entitled to know and we're
going to be pushing more and more for

4284
06:36:47,280 --> 06:36:56,080
this. Okay. Uh Ed's not a weapons maker.
He may be a Zionist and and uh has

4285
06:36:53,600 --> 06:37:01,120
walked off the dis. Well, good for him,
too. You know, don't listen to the

4286
06:36:58,718 --> 06:37:06,798
people uh that don't comport with your
point of view. That's a real democratic

4287
06:37:04,320 --> 06:37:13,360
perspective. Okay. Okay. A real First
Amendment uh breath of fresh air. I'm

4288
06:37:10,320 --> 06:37:18,878
being uh
satirical here. Uh but you know, it's

4289
06:37:16,558 --> 06:37:22,878
okay for you to speak out, Mr. Redhead,
uh Mr. Transparent, and let me know. I'm

4290
06:37:21,200 --> 06:37:26,878
willing to sit down with you. You know,
you're a bigger and younger guy than me.

4291
06:37:24,798 --> 06:37:30,320
You probably knock my ass out. I'll sit
across from the table despite that. But

4292
06:37:28,958 --> 06:37:36,240
we need to have this conversation
because I'm not gonna quit on you, okay?

4293
06:37:33,520 --> 06:37:40,798
I'm going to continue to expect that you
speak on these issues. So, you can you

4294
06:37:38,798 --> 06:37:45,920
can go home now. Thank you all. It's
been a long meeting. Uh and we'll go

4295
06:37:43,280 --> 06:37:51,520
from there.
>> That concludes public comment on re

4296
06:37:48,400 --> 06:37:55,360
remote uh participants on the agenda.
>> Thank you, Madam Clerk. That concludes

4297
06:37:53,360 --> 06:37:58,760
public comment. After meeting like this,
we are ajourned.