recording in progress.
Thank you, mayor and council. We are
live. Thank you. Um, welcome everyone to
the uh September 8th, 2025 meeting of
the passing of city council. Um, let me
first start by apologizing on behalf of
the council for uh uh our long close
session that's delayed this meeting. Um
but we had some urgent and important
matters uh in close session that needed
the council's attention. Um so my
apologies on behalf of the council. The
we'll start with the calling of role.
Council member Cole
present.
Council member Hampton
blessed and honored to be here.
Council member Jones
here.
Council member Lion
here.
Council member Madison
here.
Council member Massuda
here.
Vice Mayor Rivas
here.
Mayor Gordo
here. There's a quorum in the council
president.
Okay. We have a couple of ceremonial
matters.
Pledge of allegiance.
Oh, I'm sorry. Um, Mr. Hampton, will you
lead us in the pledge of allegiance?
Everyone rise. Right hand over your
heart. Ready? Again.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. You may be seated.
Um, so as I was saying, we have uh two
ceremonial matters. The first uh I'll
ask uh Chief Harris to step up and uh
introduce our new sergeant-at-arms.
Uh as we thank our outgoing
sergeant-at-arms, uh Jason Van Heck for
her service as a
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It's going to be
uh the division commander for field
operations uh commander Sean Dawkins
who's going to make that introduction.
Great. Thank you, Chief. Commander,
welcome.
Thank you, mayor. Uh good evening,
mayor, vice mayor, council members, city
staff, uh Sergeant Rich Padilla. Could
you please join me up here?
Uh this evening, I have the pleasure of
introducing to you your new uh
sergeant-at-arms for city council. I'll
give you a quick brief uh bio on
Sergeant Padilla. Richard Padilla has
been with the Pacian Police Department
for 27 years. He joined the department
after graduating from the University of
Leverne with a bachelor's degree of
criminology. As an officer, Richard was
assigned to the following sections:
patrol, the special investigation
section, vice narcotics, patrol as a
field training officer. He was my field
training officer a couple years back.
And the neighborhood action team as a
bicycle officer. As a corporal, he was
assigned to patrol and then detectives
as a res residential burglary
investigator. In 2014, he was promoted
to sergeant. As sergeant, he supervised
patrol, the field training program, the
hope team, park safety, and the K-9
unit. In 2018, he reestablished the
neighborhood action team, a mark bicycle
unit specializing in quality of life
issues. In 2020, he was given the
opportunity to supervise the K9 unit on
a full-time basis. He currently serves
as a dual a dual role as both a canine
supervisor and a canine handler. His
partner Peppa is a six-year-old Belgian
Malawa trained to detect explosives and
firearms. Together, they have worked
four Roseb seasons ensuring the safety
and security of both the Roseb and the
Rose Parade. In 2018, Sergeant Padilla
was recognized as a police as police
officer of the year by the Pasadena
Scottish right. He's a post-certified
bicycle instructor, postk9ine evaluator,
and a canine subject matter expert. In
his spare time, he enjoys cheering for
his favorite baseball team, the Dodgers.
And spending time with his wife Diana,
and their two children, Isabella, a
college student, and Gavin, a high
school student. And I would be rem
remiss if I didn't add um that recently
uh last week, Chief Harris uh promoted
Sergeant Padilla to acting lieutenant
where he'll step into that role as one
of the watch commanders in patrol in two
weeks from today on September 22nd while
Lieutenant Quay is attending the FBI
National Academy. So he'll be doing that
for about three months with us. Uh in
addition to his roles here, he'll still
be with with all of you every Monday
night for city council. I'll let uh Rich
Padilla come up and say a few words.
Thank you.
Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome.
I'd just like to thank everyone for the
opportunity to be here and I'm looking
forward to learning more about the uh
what the city council does and and and
more about these meetings and and how it
helps out every other department other
than the police department in our city.
So, thank you for the opportunity once
again.
Do we get the dog?
Uh yeah,
she's out in the car right now.
bring her in.
Thank you and welcome.
Uh next, uh we have an announcement uh
and presentation uh related to the
Hispanic and Latino Heritage Month
celebrations. I'll ask uh Pam Cantero
and uh Bana Deakuba and Lisa Barios to
step forward.
Good evening, mayor, vice mayor, and
council members. Um, I'm Vana de Lauba.
Uh, I am the co-chair of the Pasino
Latino Heritage Parade and Festival
Committee. My co-chair, my colleios
isn't able to join us this evening.
She's ill. Lisa, we hope you're feeling
better really soon. Um, so I'm here also
with my colleague Pam Canter, um, from
PRCS to talk about this year's Latino
Heritage Month and the celebrations that
we've got underway.
This year has been a difficult year for
our committee um, as it has been for our
Latino community here in Pasadena. And
this morning's Supreme Court ruling
allowing detentions based on race,
language, and simply where a person
works wasn't only troubling.
It is a step backwards
for justice in our nation. Seeing the
ICE raids and the impact that they have
had in our community has been difficult,
troubling, heartbreaking, heartbreaking
to see the impact on our kids.
personally difficult for many of us as
many of us can absolutely connect with
those families. Um and yet we know the
strength of our Pasadena community and
our strength is really deep and it comes
from the diversity that we have and from
the hardworking families, our
hardworking immigrant families um who
are here and who help make our community
as great and as strong as it is.
[Applause]
So, it is that belief that led to our
theme for this year's Latino Heritage
Celebration,
a proud past and a hopeful future. And
after much discussion with our partners
and others out in the community, our
committee came to a really difficult
decision, but one that reflects both our
compassion and our responsibility. This
year we are foregoing the parade,
but we are expanding the Latino Heritage
Festival in front of Pasadena City Hall
and we're going to offer many community
center programming, education, things
that uplift our community, things that
are fun, dancing, music. Um, it's going
to be in the evening to make it more
comfortable for our neighbors to come
out and to celebrate and for you all to
uh Mayor, now that we've seen you
dancing.
Exactly. There you go. Come out and and
uh and and and join us and join the
Latino community, your community, uh in
this celebration because even though
times are really heavy, the fear is
real. There is a lot to celebrate. The
strength that we have in our community,
the beauty of our community is worth
celebrating. And so we hope that you
will join us all on that evening. During
the month of Latino Heritage, we do have
a variety of other activities that are
have also been planned. Um, so that
there's educational things, fun things
for kids, for seniors, for adults, um,
something for everyone. And I can, uh,
I'll have my colleague Pam talk a little
bit more about that.
Good evening. Um, just like Vana said,
our goal is to bring joy into our
community. Um, we're going to be having
a series of events or smaller events,
workshops. We're having Fiesta Spatrias
September 19th at Villa Park from 5 to
9:00. We're having the movie Elio at
Madison Elementary. Um, Friday,
September 26th, we're having a bandulse
or a koncha making class at Villa Park
on October 4th. Um, we're having Panawa
Frescas Villa Park October 18th and
we're going to be celebrating Day of the
Dead October 24th. Hopefully you can
join us for one of those events.
Thank you.
Next, uh, Council Member Jones,
uh, has an adjourn memory.
Thanks, Mayor. Uh, I have two
adjournments. The first one is for
Reverend Dr. Joan Taylor. She was a
Reverend at First Amy Pastina, born and
raised in the city of Pastina, was a
resident of Mr. Hampton's district, and
she served our community um, throughout
her life. And so I think it it's it's an
honor for her family, at least has been
communicated to me, that we adjourn in
her honor, the city council and the city
that she was born and raised in. And
then the second adjournment is Mr.
William Larry Edson. Um similar story,
born and raised in city of Pasadena, I
believe at St. Luke's Hospital. He uh
grew up in Pasadena, attended John Mir
High School. Uh he was the vice
president of Union Bank of California.
Um he married Geraldine Edson and
together they built a multifamily
residential housing portfolio in the
city of Pasadena and he also was deeply
committed to civic and community life.
He was engaged in his church, engaged as
the board of director for LA athletic
club and he was also um on the board of
friends of Cleveland Elementary and
supported Door of Hope and also
supported Steam Coders Community
Partners and just was a very big
advocate for the city of Pastina and its
residents.
Thank you, Mr. Jones. Um I and I know
I'm joined by all of my colleagues here.
Uh ask that we um adjourn in memory of
Nina Chsky, a longtime resident envi
environmental advocate. Um in Nenah's
loss, passing loss, one of its fiercest
and most passionate advocates. Uh she
was an attorney, an extraordinarily
intelligent leader, a tireless volunteer
uh and pro poured herself into
protecting the Aoyo, championing uh
neighborhoods uh and preserving Pasio's
uh historic beauty and legacy. Uh for
decades she was a constant presence in
our community and in our city council
chambers, always speaking up for for
preservation, uh thoughtful
architecture, design, planning,
importantly diversity, uh and improving
the quality of life for all of us who
call Passina home. Um, and she was a
formal advocate, always prepared, uh,
always principled, uh, and never about,
uh, making and never shy about making
her opinion known. Um, in fact, some
would say, uh, you know, she was she
could be a bit stubborn. Uh, and I would
say, and thank goodness for that
because, uh, she always caused us to
think differently. uh and because of
that more deeply and we made better
decisions uh as a city ca as a city
council and as a and as a city uh she
leaves behind a legacy of service, civic
pride and spirited leadership. Uh and so
on behalf of all of us uh and on behalf
of all residents of Pasadena
uh I want to say that Nina is a
tremendous loss uh but a tremendous
contributor and leaves behind a legacy
of great contributions. I think we can
find her fingerprint on virtually every
important decisions uh in the last 30 to
40 years in this city. Um, you know, on
a personal level, uh, I
didn't always have a good relationship
with Nenah. Uh, in fact, when I was, uh,
um, a member of the RBOC and we were
going through the renovation project,
uh, Nina, you'll recall Mr. Madison and
others made it a habit to show up at
RBOC meetings and city council meetings
and asked for my resignation.
Um
and she did so and she meant it. Um but
you know like any other good person um
she gave me a chance uh and she gave me
a chance uh to prove myself and one day
I got a call just over 5 years ago from
uh her and Mick Hansen saying I'd you
know like to invite you to breakfast.
We've never sat down.
And so I thought to myself, well, should
I bring a taster? Um, but no, you know,
I showed up at Brookside Park uh at
Brookside uh clubhouse. Um, and before I
was able to sit down, as I was sitting
down, she points at me and says, "I
never thought I'd agree with you on
anything,
but you should be our next mayor." and
she's the person who really got me
thinking about that. Um, you know,
that's
uh a very uh important moment for me uh
and showed a lot about her and her
willingness to to give people a chance
uh and give this city a chance. And so
on behalf of all of us, I'd like to say
thank you, Nina Chsky, um, for all of
your contributions.
Mr. Madison,
thank you, Mayor. I um, very well said,
and I don't want to prolong the evening,
but I um, this was a major loss for
Pasadena, and I, too, have many arrows
in my back from Nenah over the years.
Um, but actually that's even unfair
because Nina wouldn't stab you in the
back. She would tell you to your face
when she thought you were wrong
right here.
And uh and Larry Wilson put it so well
in his piece that um she would come to
counsel and end up filling out cards on
things that she hadn't intended to speak
on and and she would begin those remarks
with. I wasn't going to speak on this,
but I have to tell you, um, but we need
people like Nenah, uh, who are
dedicated, who care, uh, who do what
they say they're going to do, who show
up, you know, for young people, uh, you
will find that when you do what you say
you're going to do and you show up, that
that separates you sadly from most of
the world in terms of uh, integrity and
and being there and uh you know Nina was
a pioneer. She was um became a lawyer in
1973 and it's hard to believe cuz it's
seems you know forever ago and also not
that long ago it was very difficult to
be a female attorney in 1973. Those were
the days when um not too far after
people like Justice Sandra Day Okconor
were offered uh legal secretary jobs
instead of um the job that the number
three person in her class in the case of
Okconor should have received at law
firms. The the sexism was still rampant
in the profession and she proudly became
an attorney and was a great lawyer. Um
and her her intellect was just
unwavering. She had paid attention to
detail. She read everything. She studied
everything. We need people like that in
the in our community to keep us on our
toes and to keep us all moving in the
right direction. In April, she stepped
away from the LVAA board and uh was I I
joke that she was claimed as a free
agent by the WP who uh put her on their
board and assigned her to some u a
mandate, but she'd been on the LVA board
for as long as I could remember for
decades and been the president of it for
for many many years. And I am so
thankful that we collectively at a at a
town hall about the fires that we had in
April, we um honored Nenah and thanked
her for her her decades of service. Even
that was painful though because she
insisted we go to her home, pick her up,
drive her to the event, drive her home,
and she didn't really know what was
going to happen. But we presented her
with a certificate and some flowers and
and she was pleased as punch uh because
her efforts weren't often enough. um
recognized. So, uh her memorial is
pending and I think I'll be involved in
that in some way, shape or form along
with the many many other friends she has
in the in the community. And um you
know, very very grateful and so tragic
that she died in a in a house fire that
um should be prevented, you know, these
days with technology and our fire
department was there instantly. But the
home was a it's the so-called butterfly
house on Lancaster, wood and glass
basically. And so it it was u you know a
very rapid confflration and um anyway uh
thank you mayor and I hope uh we will
adjourn in in Nina's memory and honor.
Thank you.
And you know, uh I I'm confident that
there will be an opportunity for an
appropriate
uh
dedication to recognize Nenah's
contributions and uh and uh fingerprint
in every part of our city. Um a lasting
contribution. Mr. Mr. Hampton,
I appreciate everything that everyone
has said um you know about Mrs. Taylor,
u Mr. Edson and Miss Chsky. I know that
there are people watching this right now
and I know that there's some young
people actually watching this because um
there's a high school um student that
reached out to me about watching a city
council meeting. I said you could look
at them on YouTube now. By the way, you
can watch this on YouTube. Um,
as we talk about these individuals, I
mean, they were amazing people in our
community. They were bricks of roads
that have been paved um that have been
paved by people before them, but they
kept on moving forward. I would just
remind everyone in this room to not be
the problem, but be the person who
solves the problem. And these
individuals are all individuals who
solve problems. They didn't bring us
problems. they they said this could be a
problem and here's how you can fix it.
And so I just want to um say that I
appreciate knowing all three of these
individuals and as a silent second um to
adjourning in their their memory tonight
um they will never be forgotten in this
community. Thank you.
Well said, Mr. Hampton. Thank you.
Okay. Um
it's uh we'll move on now with with our
agenda. Um well, we'll start with public
comment for matters not on the agenda.
Um and before we
start that, let me just say that uh the
council will recall that earlier this
year um uh a number of council members
including Mr. Cole and um well, no, Mr.
Cole and a few others, Mr. line others
um requested the issue of uh an ethical
investment policy. I think Mr. Cole
raised it at finance committee initially
uh that it come to finance committee. Um
the
because the matter has been delayed uh
first by the budget and then other
urgent items. Uh, I've conferred with
council member Cole to and to suggest
that this be referred directly to the
fire and police and pension fund um the
issue of divestment. Um, and so
um and well the issue of an investment
policy I should say. Um and he is now a
member of that board uh and in a
position to ask that the matter be
agendaized for a discussion. um and he
will be requesting a special meeting of
the board to do so. Um and that's the
body that has jurisdiction. This should
not be thought of as you know some sort
of punt because
we have to follow our own rules and
jurisdiction on these matters is with
that board. Um
and that there will be an opportunity
there to uh give public comment. uh and
I look forward to a productive
discussion um by that board.
So with that, um, Mayor was one of the
council members and before we had the
public, I don't need the credit or
anything, but I I I do definitely want
to make sure that we have a I mean,
because we're going to get this more and
more and more and more.
I mean, the way our world is shifting,
things are changing. Um, I think there
should be a policy that we have across
the board that just says, you know what,
if we find an organization that has or
anyone that has um, you know, not
cause war crimes, etc. I have no idea. I
mean, that's what the the great minds of
attorneys are to to think about those,
but um that we are not investing in um
any businesses that are supporting uh
atrocities like what's happening in
Gaza.
[Applause]
I I appreciate that, but I got ADHD and
that messes up my train of thought. So,
at least my wife tells me I got it.
could be a long list.
Okay. Um
so let's uh
so let's move on uh because we have a
long agenda with matters agendaized. Um
uh we're going to suggest one minute uh
per speaker for matters not on the
agenda. If you wish to have more time,
um, please state so and then at the end
of the agenda, we'll give you more time.
Uh, but I think it's fair to say to
let's we're going to try and get as many
people in as we can, one minute. Uh,
please respect that. Uh, and if you want
more time, we invite you to allow us to
conduct the city's business. Uh, address
matters on the agenda and then come
back.
Okay. with that
uh Fawaz al El Mar Masri followed by
Hadab Tarifi then Lucinda Wills then
Olden Denim I'll ring a bell when
there's 30 seconds
and we have over 20 cards and so if
21
21 so if you if you hear your name
please step up and form a line in the
center aisle here
Mr. mayors, council members, dear
community, respected members, and I read
their names of the children they were
killed in Gaza.
Muhammad
Muhammad basal
Hamdan
Radi Hamdan Shannon
Muhammad Mustafa Muhammad Abu Mas Ali
Khali
Elen Ahmed Abdarimi
Sal
Yousef Abu
sir your time is expired.
I'm sorry.
Your time is expired.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you. Hab Tarifi followed by
Lucinda Wills followed by Olden Denim
then Alen Shay.
Greetings of peace everyone. Um, last
time I left sad and extremely upset
after I shared the picture and the name
of my niece who was killed just a few
days earlier.
None of you showed empathy, sympathy, or
even one word of condolences after
giving us almost an hour giving
condolences and eulogy about the
previous mayor. So, just to let you
know, but you're not getting rid of me
so easily. I am back and all the names
that are going to be read about these
kids who have been killed. Uh I'm going
to ask I'm going to share a few
questions that these kids have been
asking instead of asking about what gift
uh they're going to get. All these
questions are about death after we die.
Will I hear your voice? When I die, will
they put me in a grave with my mom and
dad? When it rains, will we drown in the
tent?
When they bomb us in the tent, will we
burn?
If they bombed someone while I was
walking next to him,
Mr. Time is expired.
I hope these questions touch your heart
because they broke mine.
Thank you, ma'am.
Lucinda Wills, followed by Olden Denim,
followed by Alan Shay, then Randall Hen
Lamb.
Dr. Ahmed Sam is a surgeon with Doctors
Without Borders. This is a story in in
his words, edited to fit our short time
limit. The last thing I heard was the
voice of my children playing. Then
everything went black. When I opened my
eyes, I thought I'd gone blind. I could
no longer hear them. I checked to see if
my wife was alive. Her back and legs
were fractured, but she was alive. I
turned on my phone flashlight to find
the children. My three-year-old
daughter, Julia, was calling to me from
beneath the rubble. I carried her to a
safe place and went back for my second
son, Kareem. He had severe head trauma.
When I brought them to the hospital, I
refused to let my colleagues deal with
their injuries. I wanted them to feel
our dad is taking care of us. Maybe he's
still our hero. We're doing okay now, I
guess. My wife is in a wheelchair now.
She can't walk, so I'm everyone's
caregiver. The children's wounds are
healing slowly, but they cannot talk or
eat well. I'm trying to keep myself
together, so they can still see me as
their hero. But no, I'm not strong now.
There's so much fear that they will
never recover. If there's another strike
near us, they will lose their mind. And
I have so much guilt because I'm the
reason we stayed. We had a chance to
leave Gaza a year ago. I refused because
I love my people and my patients, but I
regret it now. We used to be a beautiful
family, but now I don't know.
Your time is expired. Sorry.
Um,
Olden Denim, followed by Alan Sheay,
then Randall Hein Lamb, then Mrs. Mrs.
Jane.
I'm no stranger to everyone here. And
everyone know
if everyone will form a line whose name
was called, please.
Excuse you.
I think I'm sorry, M.
Everyone knows my name. Everyone I'm no
stranger here. And everyone knows what
I'm here about. I came here a few years
ago trying to get some justice. All I
had was the truth in my hand telling. I
put the truth on the table, but I've
seen this truth being put down by lies.
I've seen police officers say that
Anthony Mlan had a gun in his hand. I've
seen nobody look at the footage long
enough to know that he didn't have a gun
in his hand. He had a cell phone in his
left hand. And the only other and the
other thing that I got to say because I
know I don't have much time is his dying
declaration was after being asked where
was his gun, he said his dying
declaration, I don't have one.
Thank you, Mr. Sheay.
First of all, I'd like to thank uh
Commission, I mean, council member
Hampton. I think he said the most poetic
thing tonight, and that is being a
problem solver. I would hope that the
councilman as the chair of the public
safety indicate whether we're going to
close out our request to have a properly
held agenda item instead of continuing
to ask that we get it done correctly. It
was requested that we have it heard and
discussed. The city attorney brought
forth the law which was not complied
with by the police officers. So if it
doesn't stop here, we're going to take
it to the oversight commission and keep
putting it forth. So we are asking that
you put an end to it now and either make
a declaration that it is ended now.
You're not going to move forward and
then we'll take it to another level or
we get it corrected here and call it
closure. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Ch.
Randall Hin Lamb followed by Mrs. Jane
Alara followed by Denellia
Hin Lamb and then Bailey Payne. Please
make your way forward.
Thank you very much. Uh, Mr. Mayor, I
want to say that your words about Nenina
were very moving and I hope you will
remember that as we continue to be
stubborn, I won't call for your
resignation here today, but as we move
stubborn,
uh, these are names of children who
never reached their third month of life
who were killed in Gaza. Shima Nabil
al-Aam
Samar Muhammad Abu Hind Khaled Jajou
Mariam Su Abed Mahmud Abdullah Hammad
Sullean Jabra Kinawi Habiba Amar
Al-Srafi Samir Muhammad Tamraz Juri Anas
Shamiya Alma Adnan Jamal Wam
Salah Salam Abdullah Riyad als
Rabba al-Hhat
Abdel Rahman Hammuda Bilal Kam.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Mrs. Jane Al Far.
Okay. Thank you.
Uh Daniela Hinlam
follow
then Bailey Payne. Then Paul then Simon
Gibbons.
Hi, I'm Don Heinlam, resident in
Pasadena, District 5.
I was gutted today to hear of yet
another act of violence, this time in
Jerusalem.
Mainstream media across our country will
cover this act of violence. We'll know
their names. We'll know all about them.
We'll be able to recite their names.
Unlike the perhaps 66,000
officially declared dead in Gaza, of
whom we know very few of their names.
The names I read today are all babies
two months old who have died and been
killed in Gaza.
Aria Saber Salah Abua
Bisan Ibraim Muhammad al- Malaha Malak
Ahmed Maher Abuida
Gaser Nabil Nafal Mustafa Muhammad Farid
Kandil Aid Hussein Muhammad Abuhamad
thank you
may rest in peace
Bailey Payne followed by Paul by by
Simon Gibbons then Dr. Treasure Shepard.
Good evening, council and mayor. I
wanted to share a story to explain why I
will keep showing up at city council
meetings advocating for divestment from
the genocide in Palestine.
The Red Crescent gets a phone call from
a 15-year-old girl in a car in distress,
begging for help. Her family is trying
to flee, but they're surrounded by
Israeli tanks in Gaza. Then shrieks,
rounds of rapid fire, and then no more
voice of a 15-year-old girl. The only
voice left was that of Hend Rajab, the
six-year-old girl with the flower crown.
She says the tank is right next to her.
She says it's dark and she's scared. She
begs for the operator to come rescue
her. The operator stayed on the phone
with her for hours, reciting the Quran
while two paramedics are trying to find
her in an ambulance. Then the call goes
silent. The Israeli tank killed the two
paramedics and the ambulance and hind
Rajab, the six-year-old girl with the
flower crown.
That tank was paid by my tax dollars and
that haunts me.
So, I will continue to show up
differently. Thank you, Paul, followed
by Simon Given, then Dr. Treasure
Shepard, then Chelsea.
Uh, good evening, Mr. Mayor. Council
like to read the names of one-year-old
children killed in Gaza. Eileen Ahmed
Abdel Muti Alami
Leanne Bilal Shabban Al-Husami
Masa Allah Alin Ali Uda
Talia Matasum Samir Mosp Okay.
Malak Yaser Muhammad Doud
Zena Fadi Muhammad Hajazi
Masa Ahmed Paranaser
Mera Mahmud Fadi Amida
Juman Osama
Sir your time is expired.
Simon Gibbons followed by Dr. Treasure
Shepard then Chelsea then Scott
Habbermell.
Thank you. Last year I stood in front of
this dis with a group of other people
asking you to review the way that you
manage rents in Pasadena.
We looked at whether we could make some
adjustments to measure PR and we were
told we needed to wait until the next
electoral cycle. we'd see how things
worked out. As you know, the rent
department is not doing well. And last
week, as part of the California
Apartment Association's uh lawsuit, I
took part in the the appeal court and
listened in and heard the words from
Justice Seagull. This is the most
unfair, discriminatory rent
stabilization board that I've ever seen.
I'd like you to think about this and as
we move into the next electoral cycle,
as new options are put in front of you,
to consider how we can make a reasonable
approach to managing rent in Pasadena
that make sure that all voices are heard
so that we can have a stable and
suitable way to ensure affordable
housing. Thank you.
Thank you, Dr. Treasure Shepard,
followed by Chelsea, followed by Scott
Habmill, then Michael Bonura.
Uh, thank you. There's supposed to be a
visual that Koko Panasian sent to it to
post up right now um regarding the
concert series, but I'm here as CEO of
the Pasadena Recreation and Parks
Foundation. We partnered with the city
to bring back the Levit Foundation
concert series for 3 years. So, we need
everyone to vote. They have until the
15th to do so, 5:00 p.m. on that day.
Random time, but please do so. Um just
text Pasadena to the number 187749-5525.
and whenever you guys put up the visual,
that'd be great. Um, second, Council
Member Cole, please take care of this
divestment issue. You're hearing all of
this. I know you care. I've talked to
you, but yes, we need to handle that.
And I agree with Hampton. Um, we need to
make sure that citywide we are prepared
for this in the future. Um, thank you
very much.
Thank you.
Thank you, Chelsea.
Followed by Scott Habbermill, followed
by Michael Bonura, then Nasier Carse.
Yes, this is Chelsea. I reside in
district 7 and thank you Hampton for
your interest in divestment. That's
actually something I wanted to bring up
um about just the media attention right
now in Israel today about um eight
civilians who were wounded by
Palestinian shooters at a bus stop. Um
however um as I've been sharing um
Israel military intelligence data
indicates that five out of six
Palestinians killed by Israel's army are
civilians. Um the 83% of civilian deaths
is extremely high for modern warfare and
even when compared to recent civil wars
in Syria and Sudan. Um did that mean I
was done?
No, you have 30 seconds.
Okay. Hamus International has concluded
that Israel's committing genocide in
Gaza joining more than 400 genocide
scholars. So your continued interest is
um really key right now. Thank you so
much council. God bless you guys.
Thank you.
[Applause]
Scott Habbermill followed by Michael
Bonura, then Nasier Carse, then David
Bond, then Pranit.
Hello. Uh, my name is Scott Habmill. I'm
a resident of Pasadena District 7. I'm
here today to give my unqualified
support for the Pasadena Greenways
Project. I believe that everyone
deserves the right to get around
Pasadena safely without a car. And by
that, I mean they should be they should
both be safe and feel safe.
In addition, I think that includes
walking by bike, by scooter, or by
public transport. The greenways are a
low impact project that promises to give
neighborhood streets back to the people
who live on them while allowing those
who don't to safely get around Pasadena
on a bike. Please put them on the agenda
and please approve the plan following
the all ages and abilities guidelines.
Thank you.
Michael Bonora followed by Nasir Carse
followed by David Bond then Prrenit then
Levent Akarut.
Thank you. Mayor and council members
while the while the FBS board will make
the decision to divest the city council
can still pass a resolution calling on
the FBS board to divest.
that will show that the council cares
that we are involved in genocide. Please
be strong leaders. Thank you.
Nasir car followed by David Bond and
Perit
Nasir.
Yes. And it's Naser Kaser. Sorry.
Um thank you so much for having us and I
appreciate you serving our community.
However, I am here today to um and and I
was very touched by what everybody said
about uh uh Nenina and um in my mind I'm
thinking how many thousands of
Palestinians have been killed and I
would like for us to recognize at least
the loss of the children and the honest
people, the the uh young people. So what
I was going to mention is just a couple
of names one year olds that have passed
away
have been killed uh by Israeli um
killers Muhammad Abdullah Nadia Senad
Ahmed Minir Ibraim Ali Kazim Magd
Muhammad. So I'm just reading a few.
These are one year olds. 2,000 of them
were killed
which is just amazing.
Your time has expired. David Bond
followed by Prrenit
then Levent Akbar and Mariam Gada.
City Council, I am here in support of
the city council's divestment of all of
the genocide actors that's occurring
right now in Palestine. It is uh the
worst genocide that we have seen. It is
being televised to us and we're seeing
hundreds of thousands of innocent
civilians killed. We're seeing a famine
imposed by our tax dollars and this city
has investment into these actors. We
must show a united front of ending this
genocide.
Prenit followed by Levent Akabarut then
Miriam Gaada then Anna Soul River and
then Michael Tucker will be the last
speaker on matters not on the agenda.
Hi everyone, thank you for having me. My
name is Prrenit. Um I just wanted to ask
you guys again to divest from all all
the companies that are uh currently
profiting off of the genocide that's
happening in Gaza. uh as you guys saw
maybe in Santa Monica they have a
financial emergency because of a huge
lawsuit that they faced and they're
unable to balance their books and the
same thing will happen in Pasadena once
they find that we are also guilty of
committing genocide as we own we are
partial owners in some of the war
companies so again this is more of a
legal protection for Pasadena is we need
to make sure we dive best from all of
them because as amnesty and all ICJ ICC
has determined that genocide has been
committed we are responsible for that.
So, let's divest as quickly as possible
so we don't get any legal repercussions
as the city of Pasadena. Thank you.
Thank you, Levent Akarut, then Mariam
Gada, then Anna Soul River, and then
Michael Tucker who's participating
virtually.
Okay. My name is Levent Akbar. I am a
resident of Pasadena.
I have a list of 1896 children and it's
probably a way more now that have died
since July 15, 2025.
My list consists of number 9004, Karam
Nadal Zoher Salman. And last on my list
but not least is Jud Ma Mahmud Muhammad
Hamdan.
All the names here are uh children that
are 11 months old. All of them are just
11 months old. And I would like to say
that let's adjourn with the remembrance
of the beautiful children of Gaza.
Hopefully we can think deeply and make
right decisions. Do not be a genocide
denier. do not fall for the public uh
for the public relations machine that
are per perpetuating lies
encouraging the genocide in Gaza.
Mariam Gada Gada
followed by Anna Soul River and then
Michael Tucker.
Good evening uh mayor and council
members. My name is Mariam Sada. I'm an
educator. Um I work with children every
day. This is suicide prevention month
and it's ironic that I work on the
prevention end of death and I get
trained uh to see the signs and prevent
and save lives before they go and I'm
standing here with a list of lives that
are gone. And I tell my students every
day, you know, as a good taxpayer, I
don't want my money to go to this. I
really don't. I work really hard so that
my students go to college. we improved,
you know, they find their American
dream, they live it not for the sake of
anything. So, it's the question here is
not when where if we're going to divest
is when. Thank you.
Anna Soul River.
Yes. Good evening, council members. I'm
speaking as a concerned Pasadena
resident. After reviewing the Department
of Transportation's hydrogen bus
proposal and hearing expert analysis
like Joe Rum of the Bulbas,
I urge real caution. Yes, hydrogen
grants are tempting and a few extra
miles of range may sound appealing, but
those short-term benefits don't justify
the long-term cost. Hydrogen is
incredibly energy intensive to produce.
And as the solar and battery
technologies keep improving, hydrogen
becomes harder to justify, not easier.
Even so-called clean hydrogen has major
climate drawbacks. Not the best idea.
Okay. Michael Tucker,
who's participating virtually. Mr.
Tucker, I'll ring a bell when you have
30 seconds left.
mute. Oh, I'm trying.
There we go. All right. My name is
Michael Tucker and I'm addressing the
Pasadena City Council today to express a
serious concern as a citizen of the city
of Pasadena, District 1. First,
expression of principle. For me, every
human being that lives and works in this
city is a member of this community and
deserving of its respect and protection
regardless of their federal immigration
status. Everybody has inalienable human
rights and is our duty as a community to
look out for all of us. My concern is
the expected resumption of the ICE raids
in our community after the disappointing
Supreme Court decision that put a stay
on the district court order stopping
him. That decision was handed down with
no explanation despite two lower courts
finding the stoppage order legal and
appropriate. The brief review of a brief
review of ISIS's motus operandi. ICE
deputies are often mass and do not
identify themselves. They detain people
who have committed no crimes and
interrogate them on the street. They
imprison people, some of whom were later
discovered to be American citizens
unjustly and without warrant. The last
item is my biggest concern. But I don't
understand how we can allow people to
essentially be kidnapped by someone
cosplaying as a federal officer or
without providing the requisite proof
such as a signed warrant or at least ID
proving they're a federal agent. I want
to know what the city council has done
and or plans to do to protect the
members of our community these
constitutional activities danger.
Mr. Tucker, your time is expired.
Thank you, Mr. Tucker.
That completes public comment on the on
matters not on the agenda.
Thank you everyone for your patience and
for adhering to the time limits. Um,
Mr. Mayor.
Yes, Mr. Cole.
Um, I'll be brief. Um, I took to heart
uh the comment made uh both to me after
the meeting and then tonight at um the
beginning of public comment that um
we've heard week after week um eloquent
and heartfelt uh concerns expressed by
members of our community and that
seemingly by our silence
um we showed lack of empathy and
compassion. I don't think that's the
case with any of the members up here,
but I understand how um people would
interpret um that silence. Uh these are
deeply troubling times in our country
and in our world and uh what is
happening in in Gaza and the West Bank
uh and now in Israel again um is
heartbreaking and sickening.
Um, so I would ask um in the in the
spirit of empathy and compassion, um,
it's estimated that more than 700
civilians were killed on October 7th um,
uh, in Israel. And as we all know, well
over 50,000
Gazins have died uh, in nearly two years
of warfare against uh, a civilian
population. So I would ask that we also
tonight adjourn in memory of all of the
innocent victims
of this war.
I'd give a silent second to that and
then I have one thing that's not such a
silent second as well.
I get it.
Can't you can't be silent here. You
know, Mike, but um a silent second to
that. Uh and I also wanted to um say um
to Missy Dodd, I'm so sorry to hear
about your niece. I I wasn't here when
you told the story, but I just want you
to know that I love you and um your your
family. I I just I want you to know that
I'm I'm here uh in any way, any capacity
I could be for you. I love you.
[Applause]
I uh
I think um you know the
public should also understand that you
know it's it was well put by Mr. Cole,
Mr. Hampton, and I think you speak for
the rest of the council, uh, but you
know, by law, we're prohibited from
engaging or addressing matters that are
not on our agenda. Um, and so I I I just
want you to understand that it's not
don't interpret our silence as, you
know, a lack of sympathy or empathy for
anyone who has lost a family member on
whatever side they may be on. um uh in
in any part of the world in any atrocity
uh including in this country. Um and so
uh you know we will uh adjourn in memory
of all victims of violence uh anywhere
and anywhere they may be.
Um
with that uh we will uh move on to the
consent calendar.
For the consent calendar, we have one
speaker card for item 8. Uh we did
receive correspondence for item four,
five, and eight with those letters
distributed to the council posted online
and part of the record for each of those
items.
Okay.
Um, mayor,
I have concerns on items seven and
eight.
Ask the
Okay, you want to hold them? Um,
okay. Uh, is there a motion? Is that a
motion on the remainder of the consent
calendar?
So moved.
Okay. Is there a second?
Second.
Second. Are there any objections?
I'm sorry. Six and seven, not seven and
eight. I apologize.
Six and seven.
Yeah. Six and seven. You're dropping
eight.
No, no. 82. 678.
Well, we have a speaker card on
We have a speaker card on item eight.
Okay. So, 6, seven, and eight are held.
Uh, and the remainder of the consent
calendar
uh is subject to a motion. Any
objections? Seeing none, let's start
with item six, Mr. Cole.
So, um, I was on the municipal services
committee. My colleagues gave it serious
consideration. Um I'm
concerned about our recommendation. Um
the
under the proposal we move now to as
little as onethird of the residents of a
block um uh could u
could be successful in in voting for
speed humps. Um I made a motion for a
higher threshold which is that at least
50% of the people meaning 67% of the
voting but at least 50% of the people um
who live there. The staff made a very
persuasive to my colleague argument that
it's very difficult particularly in some
neighborhoods where there's a higher
level of renters um etc. But uh I think
it's we will encounter down the road
some concerns when people say how come
there speed humps on my street and we'll
say we had an election and half the
people voted and twothirds of the people
voted for speed humps which means that
twothirds of the people haven't weighed
in. I think that's difficult but I am
not going to um do anything other than
suggest to my colleagues who are not on
MSC if you share that concern we could
discuss it. Otherwise, um I'm prepared
to I I don't think it's a bad choice,
but I I would be more comfortable with
at least 50% of the people on a street
saying they wanted speed humps.
I I I agree with you given our history
on speed humps. Uh it's been my
experience that once they're installed,
there are unintended consequences. you
know, people speeding up to the hump,
slowing down, going over it, and causes
noise and sometimes screeching. Um, and
then there are other issues when people
don't slow down for the speed hump and
cars bottom out, maybe lose control. Uh,
my experience is that sometimes people
who,
you know, be careful what you wish for.
Sometimes they wanted some wanted the
speed hump and then they want them out.
In fact, at one point we took up a
policy in Pasadena that if a
neighborhood wanted them out, they had
to pay to remove them. Um, and so uh I I
think I would suggest that we hold this
matter uh and uh and revisit
particularly the issue of a threshold.
Mayor Oh,
yeah. Go. Oh, council member.
Oh my. Sorry.
Uh, thank you, mayor, and thank you for
your comments on on that.
Council member Cole, um, I have a
experience with this kind of like on a
negative experience on it. starting with
Green Hill and um you know there was a
someone that wanted bumps on Green Hill
really it was like she was running for
election you know and and and really
going to all the houses and then they
put
um you know speed bumps on that street
and and everybody was complaining about
it you know and when I was walking you
know the uh when I was walking in 2011
uh They told me how them how much they
hated the the speed bumps. Well, she
moved away. You know, the lady that
wanted it. And now the the the uh the
traffic goes onto the adjacent streets
and that's the problem with having speed
bumps if you're not careful. Thank you.
And then there's the issue of, you know,
people want some people want the speed
humps and then there's one put in front
of their home
and they said, "No, move it over." Um
and so I I think this this Well, let's
hear from members of the MSSE.
Mr. Hampton,
um the policy went through so many
different I mean it went through other
committees as well. So there was a lot
of time for residents to um chime in. Um
in my district um there have been speed
bump petitions that have gone out and
transportation didn't get enough vote or
enough responses at all. Right. And so
we have to ask transportation to send
out another ballot and they're kind
enough to do it. Sometimes in some cases
up to three to four times to get the
response either yes or no. Um most cases
it was always in favor or someone looked
at the mailer that came in and they were
like I'm not paying for nothing. I don't
know what the city is sending me because
probably looks like a bill or something
to them. Um but I would say that I think
that the policy that was put together um
by um the transportation department um
and um the transportation committee
yeah transportation committee of a
commission sorry commission of uh the
city members uh is is actually a solid
policy. The one thing I would have added
to this um would be as um council member
Cole has mentioned, you know, having
below 50% or having would be to notify
the residents 60 days prior to the
install if they want to respond. They
have 60 days putting notice notices
along the corridor of that street that
will say speed bumps will be installed.
you have questions or concerns to reach
out.
I think that would be fair and then
transportation would have the
opportunity to look at those and say,
you know what, now that everybody has
weighed in on this and they really
notice this and they're not just
throwing away that mailer.
Long story short, because otherwise we
could just have, you know, 10 households
on a house on a street of, you know, 30
households that are on all in favor of
it and everybody else says absolutely
no. Because everybody looked at the
mailer and they said, "Oh, I'm not going
to I don't I don't need to respond to
this. I don't need to I don't need to
look at this." Or maybe there's just
another way to advertise that we're
we're asking for your input. I think
that's I think that's what we're
what's being suggested. Um, and it's a
good suggestion. I mean, I don't want to
infer from people's unwillingness
sometimes to respond that they're for or
against. Sometimes people don't respond
because they're against. Um, Mr. Jones.
Thanks, Mayor. And we did have this
discussion at MSC and I believe it was a
unanimous decision, but Mr. code did u
bring up his recommendation as part of a
a second motion, but I think it's
important to to know like this policy is
in response to the residents coming to
their council members and what we've
seen from DOT is that we've put out the
the speed markers. A resident will
petition for a speed hump and they
didn't meet the threshold, right? They
didn't meet the thousand um what is it
car trips per day. So we've lowered that
to 500. Often times when even if they
did meet the thousand um they didn't get
the 67% response rate that they were
required. And so now the residents who
have actively engaged and organized,
they don't get the speed humps. And so
our fear was is that if we didn't revise
this policy,
then we'll just be back at the same
issue again. residents asking for speed
humps and they not qualifying for it. Um
I mean it's a good point about what Mr.
Cole brought up and we did defer to to
walk and his team to do some further
investigation and then come back with a
a recommendation of a response rate
because it originally there was no
minimum response rate. I believe it was
just based on your engineering judgment.
And so then part of that discussion we
landed at a um for walk to come back and
look at a minimum response weight. He
came back with 50% and I think it'd be
helpful to hear from him as how you came
to that conclusion.
Thank you. Yes. As as we discussed at
MSSE, there were a number of things that
we're looking for in this policy update.
Um the one that that this discussion
revolves around is that twothirds vote
and um not getting um enough ballots
back even after going going out a second
or third time to try to get additional
feedback. Um in the gender report we we
did note that uh the percentage of
ballots returned really ranged from
about 46% to 78% of those mailed out and
that's really after doing um a number of
rounds of of outreach. So, um we are
open to um adjusting that number at, you
know, at this time if we'd like to move
forward with um 50 or 50% plus one of
all votes versus 2/3 of 50% of what
comes back. I think either way, what
this does, it it does uh provide um more
uh opportunity for speed humps to be
installed. They are a proven uh safety
uh device. They're proven to be
effective at reducing speeds. um they're
one of the most asked for um types of
devices that we get throughout the city.
It's just it's very hard to meet our
criteria. Um so we were trying to make
that more uh accessible to everybody. Um
we as staff feel that the 67% approval
of 50% ballots was um was a a good
number based on our data, but um it
doesn't mean that we're opposed to uh
50% plus one of of a yes vote. Um it's
just that again we don't count no votes
as nos um anymore. We still need that
that yes vote.
Um I I think the policy in terms of the
threshold is I mean I I I don't think
that's the issue. The issue is the
people who will respond and vote and um
uh Mr. Lion were you
yes in the
Thank you mayor. I support the
recommendation um the department's
recommendation. I supported the
recommendation that came before um this
has gone through TAC, it's gone through
MSSE um and now it's here. I don't know
I don't know the residents that are that
are crying out about furious about about
speed bumps. Um I heard from quite a few
people about this policy. Everyone
uniformly asked me to vote for it.
people. What I hear is that people want
don't want cars speeding down their
residential streets where their kids are
playing and they're walking their dogs
and this is a way to slow people down on
our neighborhood streets. Um I I I don't
think there's a lot of data to support
that that speed bumps in particular, but
trafficcoming measures in general result
in in a mass um overflow to other
streets. It's the first argument
everyone makes against any trafficcoming
measure and there's not a lot of data to
support it. So I very much support the
recommendation. Um I don't think we we
have to infer anything from the non
votes. That's the nature of democracy.
The people who vote get to say what
happens. That's how we're all sitting
here at this table and we don't have a
minimum threshold in our districts. So I
think the threshold we came up with is
is good. half the people on the street
have to vote and then twothirds of of
those voting can decide. Um and I I
support the policy uh as written.
I I'd second the motion too.
I just have one clarifying question.
It's not about the
speed. So there's speed tables, speed
humps, and speed cushions. Are we still
doing speed humps or only speed cushions
and speed tables? Uh speed cushion is a
type of speed hump and that's the new
standard that we're using throughout the
city. It provides the grooves for fire
vehicles. Speed tables are still under
pilot and not um part of this policy. So
we would come back at a later time for
speed tables.
I understand. So speed the long speed
humps that everybody's used to seeing is
no longer going to happen. What we're
going to see from here on out are going
to be the individual cushions that are
like three cushions. They look like
pillows.
Correct. there. Uh they have the wheel
cut out for fire emergency response
vehicles. So that is the speed cushion.
That's our current design. We wouldn't
go back and change the existing ones
unless we're resurfacing a street, but
any new locations would uh would have
that speed cushion design.
Okay. Thank you. And nobody's found a
way to take advantage of those and just
go with one set of tires over it.
Promise,
Mr. Cole. Um, so to be clear, I support
the change in policy and as the chairman
noted, I went along with it because I
support the change in policy and I do
think it has been well vetted and I do
think it's a step forward. Um, I again
worry about what happens after speed
humps are installed and I think that
council member Hampton's suggestion is a
good one. Although if that just opens
Pandora's box, we have a we have a
problem. I mean, the three complaints
cause us to maybe maybe posting during
the election makes sense.
Uh so so that people know to to request
a ballot if they lost theirs or threw
theirs away. Um in the interest of of uh
of hopefully passing this and and if it
passes without um uh my vote, then I'm
I'm fine with that as well. Let me offer
a friendly amendment that we increase
the um minimum uh threshold of
participation
uh to either 60%
or um
to 60% or um the equivalent of 50% of
the turnout in the election to be either
60% or the number of yes votes uh to be
at least 40%.
uh that on 67 at least 40% of the total
households. I know that sounds
confusing. Let me say it again. Right
now at 50% a twothirds vote is one-third
of the people on the street.
I think that's a problem. I think u Mr.
Lion makes a good point that where's
there's no minimum on elections for this
body. If 10% of the people show up to
vote, somebody gets 6% of the vote,
they're a member of this body. But I do
think on something as sensitive as this,
it will make sense for us to be able to
say there's a higher than onethird of
the people. So leave it at at 67%.
Um but at least
40% of the of the households be voting
yes.
Yeah. Um the the distinction, Mr. Lion,
I I get what you're saying, but you
know, we're not I mean, if if voters
vote us in, um they can also vote us out
uh in a couple of years. Uh there's a
little bit more permanency to a physical
change to someone's street. Um and you
know that's I I think that's where I
would say to you uh the difference is um
and you know in terms of we we may have
to agree to disagree on this but I do
believe that you know I mean just look
at your own our your meaning the
collective all of us driving patterns um
I've always said traffic is like water
you know it will find the path of least
resistance and I challenge anyone in
this room to say to me, you haven't
thought about finding the path of least
resistance when you're driving, whether
it means taking residential streets uh
or streets with no speed humps or, you
know, no stop signs. Um I think uh maybe
at least once in your commute in the
last few years, you've thought about
that. And so I I do think there's an
argument. Maybe we'll just have to agree
to disagree.
No, sir. I think I think we'll look at
some data on the traffic is like water
is is there's a good deal of data to
respond to that I think. So
mayor we can I clarify just your math or
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I understand what I was going to say.
It didn't just sound confusing to us.
I know. I apologize.
Let me let me make it as simple as
possible.
40% of 50% of 22% on a Tuesday is what I
understand. No, no,
that's exactly what to me.
He was like, who's on first?
Sorry.
100 houses on two blocks, right? Under
the current policy,
the minimum vote is 67 votes. If 67
people vote and they all vote in favor
of it, fine. But you have to have
obviously more than than um 67 votes in
order to get to the 67 threshold. And
that's almost impossible as it turns out
um because of people who don't vote at
all. So um under the proposal that's
before us,
uh the minimum number is 34 on on those
two blocks. I'm suggesting that it be we
leave it as as 67, but there be a
minimum of 40 yes votes.
So 40% of the of the households be the
minimum threshold. So it's that's pretty
simple. It's the difference between
right now it's 67 under this proposal be
34. Under my proposal it would be a
minimum of 40 votes. It could be 90 to
one or 90 to 10. It can be 67 to 33. But
the yes votes have to me make up at
least 40% of the households. That's all.
Thank you, Mr.
So basically 40% of the ballots that go
out have to be returned in affirmative.
No, that's under this proposal. Under
the current proposal, 50% have to be
Oh, in the affirmative. Yes. Correct.
Yes. Correct.
So that's your I missed your last two.
You got to get 40% of yes votes and you
doesn't matter how many come back.
Yes. If it happened that 40% came back
and they were all yeses, it would be a
a yes.
But I mean, we did discuss this at MSC
and we did say that we was going to
re-evaluate it after like 6 months.
So I I mean I I'm still comfortable
supporting the
it's a friendly amendment if you don't
accept it. I understand.
Yeah. And and part of in addition to
this is that we was going to do more
outreach in different languages because
a lot of residents were not returning to
ballet because you know we just wasn't
meeting their preferred language and so
there was a barrier to that as well.
So would could I add an amendment if
that's okay? And I don't have an
amendment on the the math percentages. I
there's not going to be a math contest
here. just that we notify
the way the same way you know you can't
park on the street there's some very
visible notification that ballots are
going out check your mail
that we can do yes
thank you I I I think I mean you
mentioned 60 days and I was going to
suggest it should be during the voting
process
yeah prior to the vote you know maybe
put out the the the electronic uh sign
um
to notify people be that the vote is
happening because 60 days out we've
already let contracts we've you know the
that
no no 60 days is off the table. It was
Yeah. Yeah. No. Council member Cole
brought up a great idea. He was like or
someone said why not before the ballots
even go out so that we're advertising
it.
I was only putting the 60 days prior to
just in case had issues with it.
But yeah before Any
further? Oh, Miss Rivas.
Thank you, mayor. I'm supportive of the
motion, supportive of the um friendly
amendment. Um I think the key piece that
we don't see in the staff report. It
sounds like there was discussion, but
that's why I support the friendly
amendment. It's just the outreach piece.
Um I think right now in my district, the
streets that have done it, they really
go all out. it is a really intensive
effort and which is a good result
because you know people are really
motivated really invested in it um but
it it's a lot of work so doing the
outreach helping with outreach is going
to make a big difference so I appreciate
everyone's attention to that thank you
and one quick item is the mailing of the
ballots because we know from the city
clerk's office you're doing obviously
the city clerk's doing an audit but
there's some city mail that hasn't
reached every residential unit in the
city. And so we need to make sure that
we're very thorough about mailing out
ballots to each unit within that block
or that that segment that's petitioning
for the speed hump.
Yes, that's one of the things that we're
looking at with the mailers is u making
sure that the addresses that we've
mailed them to uh make sense. If we get
any returned ballots for undeliverables,
we'll check and see why that address um
uh was returned. Maybe it's a different
address or maybe that address doesn't
exist. But but we're um trying to
approve that process to make sure that
everybody gets a paper ballot um gets it
in multiple languages. And uh now uh we
will also be doing some notification
when the ballots go out um public
notification so people can see it
through some kind of signage on that
street that there is a ballot out.
Last question. Do we do this digitally
as well? Have we thought about that?
We've traditionally just done paper
ballots to be able to get them um back
that way so that we can um um verify
that it was
the ballot that was mailed out is is
coming back from that address.
I'll tell you this just as one
individual, right? I mean, I guess I'm
considered a millennial. I I the mail
that I get in my home is pretty much
just coupons.
Everything else is done digitally. My
bills don't come to me. That's all
digital. I don't get that in the mail.
So, if I get a a letter from the city of
Pasadena,
I mean, I'm looking at it because it
comes in our packages, right? But but
I'm saying the average person is not
opening them, right? They're just not
opening them. They're just saying, "I'm
not going to open that because
everything I get is digital." So I mean,
so we should look at when that
notification goes out some sort of dig
digital way and in a way that the
individual can identify, you know, this
is my address, etc. Because even, you
know, with fraud, someone say, well,
that that opens up the door for anyone
to vote, right? And put any address in.
You could do that now.
Right. You could technically get a
ballot from someone's mailbox and vote
in affirmative
or vote in favor or vote against.
I'm going to remind us that we're still
on consent calendar on the first item
pulled.
Um there's a speed bump.
Yeah.
Question.
And so
um
are there we have a motion and a second.
Are there objections? This is for the
staff recommendation without the
friendly amendments.
What was the friendly amendment? I think
we were good with the with the
outach. Yeah. Yeah. Signage on the
street I think is important and and and
a really rigorous outreach. That's what
I would say.
Okay. So, that was the friendly
amendment. Okay.
Uh,
Council Member Cole
on balance. Yes.
Council member Hampton.
Yes.
Council Jones. Yes.
Council Lion.
Yes.
Council Madison.
Yes.
Council Msuda.
Yes.
All right.
Vice Mayor Rivas.
Yes.
Mayor Gordo.
Yes.
The motion passes unanimously.
Item seven. Mr. Cole.
Um, let's see. Uh,
questions or
No, not I'm sorry. Seven was a mistake.
I did not mean to call seven.
Eight.
Motion to move approval of item number
seven.
Thank you.
Second.
We have a motion and a second to approve
staff recommendation.
Any objections?
Seeing none, matters approved.
I apologize. I was I was looking at six
and eight and uh seven got mixed up in
there.
Okay. Uh on number eight
again I had um a difference of
perspective from my colleagues on MSC
although um we're all thinking in the
same regard all of us uh who are present
want to see this policy changed um I
wanted to go further um right now you
can size up to 150% of your uh current
use
um and if you want to go above 150%
uh this under this policy change then
you need to install batteries. The
problem with that is the batteries are
very expensive. They make a lot of sense
but we we have not yet in uh created an
incentive program to help people to
invest in batteries. And so we need
between 90 and 120 megawws of local
solar and putting them on people's
rooftops,
individual homes as well as businesses
make a lot of sense. And given that
people are buying electric cars, people
are increasingly electrifying as I have
um their appliances and their heating
and air conditioning. Uh, I think that
200%
um makes more sense. If we want to come
back and revisit when we get a battery
incentive and and really um incentivize
batteries, I think that makes a lot of
sense and I understand why the staff
recommended it. But I think until we
have that battery incentive to ask
people um to put in very expensive
battery systems, not that we'll pay for
100% of it, but we should we should find
a way either to finance it or or some
kind of credits, but in the meantime, I
think it's unreasonable to limit to just
150%. It's not a do or die issue, but I
think it is an important um and and the
the chances of abuse, whatever that
looks like, uh are so minuscule. The
number of people that are going to spend
the money to go above 150% are the
people who are not trying to make a buck
off of the city. They're people who
legitimately think I'm going to buy an
electric car or I'm going to convert. Um
and and so that's uh that's my view and
I wanted to put it on the record and see
if any of my colleagues not on MSSE
share those concerns.
I will second that if that is a motion.
Uh and I am fine with I prefer the more
I think that anybody wants to put any
solar on their home, we should allow
them to do that. Um if they want to
disconnect from the grid, we should
allow them to do that as well. So, um,
if you're able to produce 200% of your,
um, usage, maybe you'll eventually
decide to disconnect from the grid. Um,
to council member Cole's, um, point
about the, um, how much batteries cost,
depending on how you're doing your
solar, um, installation, adding 50% more
could be equivalent to the cost of your
battery. So, I I I do think that
residents should have the option um to
go to 200% if they like. Um but I would
encourage them to and I would encourage
water and power to um come up with um
some sort of incentive um to give our
residents to to really invest in battery
storage.
Well, not to be um preempt here, but I I
will make a motion to that effect with
the following provisions. number one
that we adopt this the recommendation
from MSSE
number two that we raise the threshold
from 150 to 200%
um to be revisited when and if we move
forward with battery incentives
and number three that this apply not
just to new systems but to upgrades of
existing systems.
That's my motion.
I mean, I thought I just seconded it.
So, I mean, I I I seconded before, but
it's all good.
Okay.
Works.
Um,
Mr. Madison,
thanks, Mayor. Mr. um Hampton was
talking about making a buck, but is this
a a revenue generator for the resident
if if it potentially is sell back? It
potentially is uh if they are producing
more than they consume.
Is that a policy change?
It is a slight policy shift I would say
um from where the existing policy exists
today which is to try to match the solar
system to the residents uh needs to
their actual usage.
Are residents today receiving u checks
from the city for power?
Some do.
Okay. Yeah. That's problematic because
uh
you know there've been some subsidies of
those systems by the city and other
levels of government. So I wasn't aware
of that. I have solar in my home but um
we don't get checks from the city.
Certainly never expected and I never got
a rebate too. I never applied for them.
Um, so that's a significant policy
judgment, I think, if we're going to
turn the residents into um, producers.
I'm not opposed to it necessarily, but I
think that needs some discussion. And
then my understanding was, I mean, I
liked the staff recommendation because
what we really need is storage. We need
to have storage so that um, we've got
the capacity when we need it um, even if
we're not able to generate it in that
moment. So I read the staff
recommendation to be you can get more
but it'll be tied to a storage
mechanism. So for me that's a good
policy. Um and it's hard you know at
8:30 at night for eight of us to tinker
with really well-reasoned professional
staff
policy judgments that have already all
these arguments were made at MSC
unsuccessfully apparently um by Mr.
Cole. So, I'm going to stick with the
staff recommendation.
Thank you,
mayor. I don't know that it's helpful,
but I would just remind the council that
the council did approve uh a budget that
includes a rebate program, and we're in
the process of developing that
implementation. So, there's money there
for a rebate program for batteries,
battery storage. We hope to roll that
out in the next 3 months.
And David, could you clarify the fund
that that's coming out of?
It's from the PBC fund.
Yeah.
Public benefit. Yes. So it doesn't
affect the rate pair.
And I'm not this is sort of without
prejudice to future adjustments upwards.
And I'm not hearing staff say otherwise
in terms of the the generation piece,
but I think it's a it's a good balance
of focusing on more generation and more
storage. I think we need to catch up
with storage if we can as it were.
Um Mr. Jones followed by Miss Reebas.
Thanks, Mayor. And and that's precisely
the discussion we had at MSC. This is
again responding to residents who want
to get the the solar credit before it
expires or the federal government um
takes it away and allowing them to build
out some additional capacity. Maybe in
the future they're going to get one EV.
And so we came to the conclusion that
150% of their existing usage was a fair
and balanced approach. part of the staff
recommendation and Mr. Cole did raise
these concerns and and you know we
thoroughly discussed it and my
recollection was is that we would kind
of the the general manager would get a
sense of the applications coming in and
then if you know if people are saying
hey I want 200% then general manager
would come back to MSC and we'd have
that further discussion but it part of
that was that we are um encouraging
solar storage because we do know that we
need our residents to help us meet our
carbon-f free goals with solar and with
storage. And so that was part of the the
balanced discussion we had at MSSE. And
so I'm prepared to support the um
staff's recommendation, the
recommendation that we had at MSC, but
I'm also prepared to to have a further
discussion on Mr. Cole and Mr. Hampton's
motion.
If that's a substitute motion, I would
second it.
Yeah, substitute motion.
uh the the issue of I'm sorry, Miss
Reebus. Go ahead.
Thank you, Mayor. Just quick question
because I I wasn't following the
discussions at MSSE and I appreciate the
overview we've gotten here, but and as a
just from the perspective of residents,
what I've heard, the move to 200% over
150 is something that I've seen a call
for a desire for, there's a desire for
to be able to to do more. Um what's the
department's response? What is the
concern that I feel like we haven't
heard that piece of it yet? what why why
did the department recommend 150 over
200?
Yeah. So, what what we've looked at and
and again the the existing ordinance and
policy really speak to trying to size
the solar system to the customer's needs
so that whatever is generated or used uh
is paid for. It's offset. Basically, the
solar system would offset the the needs
of the customer and so basically you're
not paying for electricity. And what
we've heard is that our existing policy
of looking at annual usage is somewhat
restrictive and doesn't allow customers
to rightsize for the future. They're
going to buy an EV, they're going to do
an addition, maybe they're going to grow
their family. Um, and 150% is what we
recommended just sort of as a matter of
right. Uh, that accounts for about one
EV, a little bit more than one EV from
our from our math. And then the thinking
was beyond that. Um, if you want to go
beyond 150, you you certainly can, but
we'd like you to install a battery. And
the OSP, although it's not done, our
carbon-f free goals in the city are
going to require uh our residents to to
help out and and batteries are a great
way of doing that. And that that was the
staff thinking.
And is it a concern from the department
or the city that if a home has more
capacity than it needs and then the city
has to buy it back, is that a financial
concern from the department's
perspective? Is that what is that where
this is what's driving this?
So, the time of use rates that we've
been talking about with council with MSC
within the OSP uh once we have our AMI,
we think we're going to be able to
address that. Right now, we're not able
to. In other words, buying back power at
12:00 p.m. when we don't need it at at a
premium cost, it doesn't make a lot of
sense for anybody. Um but but if a
customer has uh battery, they can
basically store that energy that's not
needed at 12 and they can either use it
themselves or they can sell it back to
the city at a premium. So financial uh
analysis was not part of this
discussion. I can tell you that it would
be certainly part of something in the
future. We've talked about it with time
of use rates and what that looks like in
terms of how much the city uh would
would actually how much we're paying for
power versus how much we're uh buying
from our our customers. But the 150
versus 200 and when the batter is
required, you know, I think staff would
would uh follow whatever council's
direction was.
Thank you for that explanation.
Appreciate it.
We also have public comments
in the issue of uh of whether you know
the city would buy back. That that was
heavily debated when when we went
forward. Um and it was a concern that
people would you know um
uh make it a profit center or that
businesses would make it a profit
center. Where we landed on it at the
time was well you know we are interested
is in in uh having no carbon footprint
and so that was a price to pay at the
time.
Yeah. um for
uh allowing residents to to collect.
Right. I appreciate hearing that uh as
well. If it seems like the the the
technology or batteries or is not there
yet or rather the cost of batteries is
not there yet to make them widely
available. So we have this mismatch
between the panels and the batteries.
And I don't see it as folks, you know,
trying to gain the system, trying to
make a profit. It's just the nature of
that imbalance right now where there's
going to be an excess at certain points
of the day until we correct that until
there's more batteries. I appreciate
again hearing what the logic was with
the the batteries.
The other the I just want to add and
Vujo would probably do a lot better than
me, but just to share it really does
help with demand on the grid as well.
The the batteries do help uh alleviate
load and I don't know if Mr. Vidian if
you wanted to say a little bit more
about that. Uh yes thank you David
version of video and assistant general
manager for power delivery division in
addition to the financial aspects of it
and us and the customers needing the
batteries I mean uh David mentioned the
imbalance like in the middle of the day
there's we have excess solar and that
the excess solar that comes back to our
grid has an impact on our grid it can
increase voltage it can over overload
equipment and we have been upgrading our
system for years this was the first year
we created a specific CIP P to capture
the cost to give us transparency and the
public transparency how much as far as
how much we're spending. So our concern
for going anything over 150 is that that
impact on our distribution system is
going to be greater. So we want to be
really cautious as far as what we do. We
can certainly uh be back at council at a
later date if we see uh what it is as
far as financial impact on our
distribution system, not the rates. Uh
but we uh we can we can report back to
council as far as what what we see.
Yeah.
You know the the debate at the time was
heavily around we still have to pay for
the distribution system and and so that
was part of the the the balance we the
council at that time was attempting to
strike. Um, let me suggest that maybe uh
since we have a substitute motion um
that we support the substitute motion
with an amendment to send the issues
raised by Mr. Hampton and Mr. Cole uh
back to MSE for more thinking and then
come back to us. Um but um
we still have public comment
oh uh we still have public comment and I
see Mr. Lion, uh Mr. Madison and Mr.
Coler are back in the queue.
Thank you, mayor. Um, I we did go around
and around about this. The batteries are
an incredibly important piece of
converting solar into a resource that we
can use around the clock. Um, but
in some ways that this number is squishy
and maybe a little arbitrary. I wonder
if there's not a compromised position to
get to here, which is that we set the
the entitlement at 150%. And then to go
over you either have a battery system or
demonstrate a need for and which is to
show I'm actually purchasing a or I have
purchased uh a second EV. Um, but you
can either either get a battery system
or demonstrate a need and then you can
go to your need over
150%. That may be able to bridge this
together. It's unfortunate we're coming
to this discussion now. It's a little
peace meal. We we're we're just about to
get to adopting the OSP. We know that
solar is the critical component in
getting over the 100% goal. Um, but we
also are running up against the clock of
the of the federal incentive running out
at the end of the year. And so we're
trying to create what we can a mechanism
to incentivize people to move now if
they want to do that. Um, so it it I we
need to get something passed tonight.
Um, and I'm I'm happy to to compromise
on how we do it. Council
totally undermine batteries, but the if
if the if that system could work, we can
kind of meet both.
Is that a friendly amendment? Oh,
I was just want to clarify. Um, what if
a resident already had an EV? Would that
qualify them to get the 200%.
Well, no. They're going to get to So,
they get to go to 150% of their of their
load for the last five years. Is that
how we do it? So, we look at average
from the last five years. they they get
to go to 150% of that. To go over that,
they either have to demonstrate an
actual need, which might be another EV,
it might be uh they're expanding the
house. Um I don't know what other need
you might have, but but um either an
actual need or a battery system.
So your EV now, at least newer EVs, act
as a battery system. So I my question is
would that contemplate or maybe I should
ask the general manager me having a EV
that could generate power back to my
home which most EVs have this capability
now and any EV I think any EV has the
avail ability to do this with a device
would that consider me as having a um a
battery
that doesn't get back to the grid just
yet so the the point of the battery is
that it would be connected to the grid
and So, um, we we hope to get there. Uh,
and and I believe actually we will get
there. We're we're not there yet. Where
the the car batteries would serve as,
uh, uh, interconnected to the grid, but
it it certainly as everything that you
said I I believe is true. They can if
you hook it up correctly, you can uh
help power your home, but it wouldn't
get back to the grid. Okay. Thanks.
Okay, Mr. Madison.
Thank you, Mayor. I'd really just want
to follow up. So, did I hear that we're
buying power that we can't use right now
from residents?
We under our existing net energy
metering system, we we do purchase uh
excess power um from from our customers
that have solar where they're generating
more than they uh than they use.
Even at non- peak time when we don't
need it.
Yeah. We without consideration of time.
Yeah, that's a problem.
I mean, it's a bit it's it's a problem
just because I don't know that we
understand what the economics of that
are, why we're doing that. So, and you
know, my experience is batteries are
already the prices are coming down and
they're going to proliferate. So, I I
really feel like that's where our focus
should be. Um, and I would actually like
to see a maybe a just a written report
about, you know, what and how much money
are we spending and are we are we is
that taxable income to the resident? Are
we are you issuing 1099s? Um what's
happening there?
It's in the form of credit usually. Um
if they're generating more and so um
well the credit's different and if what
you're telling me is
we're just rolling that into their
yearly or some other measurement of of
power. I think that might be okay
because then they're still just
getting the benefit of what they're
using.
Yeah. the the existing uh regulations
call for a credit and in some instances
they're still generating more than than
what their usage is on on a rare
occasion. I know that we we have issued
checks before.
Then we cut a check. So again, is that a
taxable event? Are we issuing a 1099?
We we are not issuing 1099.
I I don't know why not. That should be
taxable income probably, right? I mean,
this needs more study than a 900 p.m.
city council, you know, session. So,
I'd like to get a report, you know, just
offline from staff about all that. Thank
you.
No pun intended.
Um,
non peak.
Yeah. Not non- peak hour. Uh, we do have
public comment. Um,
clerk.
Um, Mr. Qu was in the queue, but I'll
I'll defer till after public comment.
Sandy Kraner
and uh I believe Yachti put in a public
comment card for this as well.
Hi there. Well,
two minutes. Go ahead.
Two minutes. Okay. As I understand,
politics is the art of the possible,
right? Um so I think tonight it
certainly makes sense to go ahead with
the staff proposal for 150% batteries
above that. I think as you've seen
there's a certain sense of urgency. We
got a deadline coming up at the end of
the year because of what the
administration has done to solar panel
credits. Let's move out with this as
you've got it. Now, I didn't want to
address Mr. Madison's question. I don't
know what the statistics are on PWP, but
I suspect there's not a lot of people
out there making a million dollars a
year being power generators. There might
be a few people that are making a couple
of bucks on the side, but I suspect
that's not really the concern. Um, one
big thing to keep in mind here, sort of
referring to something else that that
you that that you're working on right
now, um, certainly as Mr. Reyes uh,
said,
battery storage is coming. There's a
there part of the the plan is to put in
125 megawatts, which I think is 500
megawatt hours of batteries at at
Glenarmm. Um it's really important that
you proceed with the optimized strategic
plan which should be putting together
the whole story for how much um how much
storage are we going to have at Glenarm?
How much rooftop solar are we going to
have? How are you going to incentivize
people for ro rooftop solar? If we had
the optimized so strategic plan
presumably all this would come together
and there'd be an understanding of how
all the pieces fit together. But for
now, we got the street the the urg what
do they call it? The urgency that we got
to get this one going and then we can
come back and revisit it. Okay. Thank
you very much.
Uh Yachti,
I just want to say I appreciate the many
discussions that there's been. As you
probably already know, I'm a big
proponent of clean energy. I drive EV. I
have solar. Actually, I picked the house
that I live in right now because it
already had panels and my lease is
already over and I'm kind of stuck in no
man's land when I'm trying to figure out
how to upgrade. But because we're stuck
in this conversation, I um I'm I'm stuck
at trying to make a decision. And for
example, what you guys were look saying
to look at the past power usage. That
would be difficult. For example, in my
um in in my scenario where I don't use
my gas stove because it's gas and I try
not to use my gas dryer because it's gas
and I would like to upgrade my other
appliances. So, examply, for example,
using a heat pump. And so, looking
retroactively at my past power use
wouldn't uh help me or be able to
qualify for that. And the 150 I think is
good if that's what you settle on. And
possibly I would ask maybe to look at
200% or giving the flexibility of people
to be able to have a discussion with the
city staff on being able to look at a a
special accommodation. But again, just
appreciate and the urgency and again I I
have an EV because I was able to take
advantage of the tax credits and I would
try to take advantage of other programs
that are available um as much as
possible. But that's what we would need
our rebates and incentives to do that.
Thank you.
That completes public comment on this
item.
Okay.
Uh so
where are we? Mr. Jones, you're in the
Mr. Cole followed by Mr. Jones.
Yeah. Go ahead.
So I I apologize that um we seem to be
arguing over a relatively
um small difference and that um
philosophically I think we're all
aligned. I agree with Council Member
Madison. We want batteries. We want to
incentivize batteries. Um, we're talking
about a handful of people who are going
to take advantage of of this under any
circumstances, right? It's probably less
than a hundred will will actually be
under this policy before we have
batteries. And we're what are our annual
electric sales, Mr. Rivas?
Mr. Reyes?
I have that number. Just give me one
second, please.
I don't have that data.
Yes.
I
I also misgendered you, so uh my
apologies.
Yeah. Um but it's I think my memory is
it's 80 million but um we're talking um
I mean the the concerns about uh this
this is
less than a rounding error. Um,
philosophically
the reality is that we need 90 to 120
megawatts of solar and we need a similar
amount of battery and some of it's going
to be on people's rooftops and some of
it's going to be municipal but we need
to be moving forward on it. I would
rather on the side of encouraging
as much solar as possible. I am strongly
in favor of um supporting batteries, but
I think um the rather than think about
how little we can do, I think we should
be focused on how much we can do uh
given the the stakes and given the
timeline. We have five years to get to
2030 and get to 100%. So, um I will not
support the substitute motion, but I
understand um the you know on this issue
I I think we're not all that far apart.
Yep. 2030.
Mr. Jones.
Thanks, Mayor. Um Fujian, could you
remind us why you recommended 150% and
not 200%.
Sure.
as Mr.
Dis
um
so as Mr. Reyes mentioned the
discussions we had we had numerous
discussions about this topic and the
conclusion that came we came up with is
that the additional 50% it's
approximately equal to one electric
vehicle. So if a household doesn't have
an electric vehicle, we consider that
like added that uh 50% to that which is
150%. One thing I want to emphasize is
all the percentages that we're talking
about whatever it is, whether it's 140,
150, 200, whatever it is, they have a
real impact on our distribution system.
I want to emphasize that fact that
whatever we do, any excess solar coming
to our system has an impact. Some areas
will not have much as much impact as
other areas, but they do have an impact.
Okay. Thank you.
So, um, should we vote on the substitute
motion and then see where we go?
I like Mr. Lions, but if there's no
uptake on that,
what was Mr. Lions? What was you said to
go to 200% but you have to prove that
you're getting the
EV just the to go over 150 you either
have to you either have to have a
battery or demonstrate an actual need
for for more and then you can do more
sort of blends the two.
Prove it up.
I could support that.
I support that. I mean
if you I mean if the
if that's a substitute substitute
Well, let's see if the substitute the
maker of the motion. I think you get one
substitute, right?
Well, no, you can make it a friendly
amendment.
That's what I was proposing to
substitute. Yeah, I'm amendable to that.
I'd like to hear Mr. Reyes and
your team's take.
Yeah. If if the thinking was by
demonstrating actual need, it's um you
know, they're doing an ADU and it's not
just like I'm thinking about doing an
ADU, but I'm here here's I have plan
check in. I have a you know, I'm I'm
making actual steps towards an ADU where
I have a new demand. I think that makes
a lot of sense. Uh here's registration.
I'm, you know, I've purchased an EV
versus I I think I'm going to get an EV
in the future. And the way that we've
outlined it is the 150% to sort of
rightsize your system and then a
battery. I think what I hear Mr. Lion
saying is that's fine, but what if
someone also says, "Look, here's my
registration. I've got another EV. I
need more than 150%." And I think
that's what I'm talking I have an EV on
the way or I'm getting ready to
electric appliances on the way. So, it's
basically
EV on the way.
It's basically actual demand.
Yeah, Mr. Madison.
Thank you, Mayor. I think that's already
in the motion. So the the second part of
the motion is to allow greater than
150%. Uh provided that such
installations do not exceed 1 megawatt
or paired with an energy storage system
which I'm hearing could be a new EV or a
battery system and subject to localized
grid distribution efficiency. And this
is critical because if we're going to
set up a system where we're buying power
that we can't use and that that strains
our our distribution system, that's
crazy talk. So I'm com I'm comfortable
with the uh staff recommendation which
already offers those things and and
hasn't offered the the overage. I think
the difference the difference is, if I
may, is that if we want to if a resident
wants to go from 150 to 200 because
they're going to purchase a second
electric vehicle, they would have to
prove to David and his team that they
have a registration or they just
purchased the vehicle and they need that
additional uh capacity. And I think
that's what Mr. Lion is saying. So I
think that's a little different from
what's in here, which in that point
you're saying that that's fine as long
as they are for sure going to have the
EV by the time the of the installation
of the solar.
What it lets us do is know that there's
not going to be excess generation that's
not stored. So if they have excess
generation over the 150%, it's because
they're using it.
We're meeting their need. And then if
you're if you don't need it, then you
got to be storing it. So it sort of
accomplishes both goals.
Yeah. I'm struggling with um how that's
not in part B. And to me is only about
the battery. It's not about your excess
need.
But the the EV is a battery.
Yep. The EV is not a battery. Actually
shut that down. It's not a battery. that
I mean the technology it is a battery
but um that's the where the technology
is but they're saying that they're not
they're not recognizing that.
Okay. Even for even for the home you're
not recognize that as a storage system
that the home can use.
Yeah. From from our perspective in terms
of looking at the the reasons that Mr.
Adian talked about the the number and
the reason for the battery storage is
really to help protect the grid and also
to uh to offset some of uh the demand
that we need at the peak time. So uh and
the car batteries just aren't there yet
for to help the grid.
Okay. And does the motion the amendment
to the amendment include grid
sufficiency as being a factor or is
Yeah. All of the other technical pieces
that are here need to remain. Yeah.
So I'm I'm fine with it.
Yeah. I would accept the amendment then
to the substitute if that's the intent.
Just a addition, right? Yeah.
Yeah.
Mark, do you have that? Um
it was a lot, Mark.
It is a lot. Uh also to make a note, the
we've distributed a revised resolution.
Um the it's a revision to um page two of
the resolution.
uh item number one in the resolution
second line and it's to remove the word
new. So I think this addresses the to
apply to existing and not just new solar
systems. So that's resolutions in front
of you. It's an amended resolution. So I
would assume that that's part of the
Yes. Yes.
Okay.
Okay. Um
all set.
So to vote on the
So uh
substitute motion
vote on the substitute motion as
amended. Um are there objections?
Okay. Thank you. Uh uh matter passes
unanimously.
Thank you everyone for your input and
participation and patience.
We are on to
You don't look as charged up as I
thought you would be.
Pun intended. Okay,
we're on to item 11.
Took a minute.
I was laughing, but I was like, man.
All right. All right.
I'll keep
I'll keep both my day jobs. Um, next
next matter is item 11.
It's pennies.
Pennies.
And there are 11 speaker cards on item
11.
The mayor had to step out for a moment,
but I believe
we lost our
Oh, did we also lose our quum as well?
No, we have five.
Oh, no. I'm sorry. Thank you.
So, we can continue. I believe we'll
start with the staff recommendation on
this item.
Yes. vice mayor the hour where we have a
presentation teed up or if you'd like to
uh have questions or we can
yeah what's the will of the council on
this item and uh council member Hampton
this is in your district so look to you
first
yes I've gone through this uh thoroughly
and um I do have some questions but I
don't know if everybody needs a
presentation on it if we don't need a
presentation I could go straight into
the questions
yeah I think that's appropriate so thank
you
um first and foremost I want to thank um
staff for um doing all the work and
making sure that we got all the legal um
eyes dotted and tees crossed um for the
process. Now, part of the um staff
report, it recommends um demolishing the
buildings.
Yes, sir.
um
as a part of the RF. So, so I'll just
start with off with why don't we make
that the ownest of whoever is awarded
the RFP to do a um I guess a building
analysis to see if the if the buildings
actually need to be demolished and have
them pay for their own um structural
engineer, etc. to go out to to check to
see if those buildings need to be
demolished.
Council member Hampton that that is an
option available to the council if that
is a direction. Our direct our
recommendation to demolish the buildings
uh is
more a result of the recent uh
assessment done by our city's risk
management team safety officer in the
visit and the all the the the condition
of the buildings that were further
deteriorated from back when it was
adopted in 2010. Um, that's the reason
why the city's position, the staff's
recommendation is to look at demolishing
the building to to open the opportunity
for a new construction that can probably
better suit the proposals that are going
to be coming forward.
I think that um we would only get a few
proposals if we demolish all the
buildings because whatever organization
comes forward would have to have multi
millions upon millions of dollars to be
able to to do the work that we would
like to see in this um in this place. I
think that onus if even if another
organization has millions and millions
of dollars and they say we want to tra
we want to demolish all these buildings
and start a fresh that's their option
but I think any other organization
that's going to apply for this RFP
should have the option to look at the
buildings that are existing to see if
they are able to refurbish those in any
way. So that would be one of the items
um that I would ask uh you my colleagues
um to just make the onest whoever is the
awardee of the RFP.
The other um piece is in your staff
report it says that RFP is going to take
12 months.
Yes, we uh we estimate about six months
to prepare the RFB process, have it
reviewed by multiple departments and
ensure it is prepared and everything is
captured and the release and the process
of receiving the RFPs, reviewing, doing
the interviews of the proposers. We're
estimating between 6 months for the
first portion, six months for the other
about one year overall. I think that
that is a u very prolonged period of
time and we mentioned this at um finance
at least I mentioned it at finance and I
said that a lot of the work has already
been done and there's been a lot of work
um towards this it seems like we've been
talking about this building or these
structures um for the past 3 years or so
um and so because we have so much work
and you guys have already done all the
work to talk to all the different
departments you talked to um the water
board etc to make sure that this could
all be approved Now that we've gotten
this far, um I would like to see um a
RFP issued within the next 90 days. That
would be
No. No. And and those are my two um
issues with the staff's proposal or or I
mean if it's not 90 days, you let me
know. I mean, it seems like we're able
to get RFPs out in 90 days. That seems
like the the going and that was what was
brought up in finance according to my
notes that I wrote on the day that we
talked in finance. Can you hold that
thought cuz I want to make sure I I we
didn't just make a mistake. Given the
importance of item 14, the fire um uh
issue um the because of the late hour,
uh I don't I think it's best to put it
off for a couple of weeks. Uh allow
public comment. um
to go forward. Um so we would allow
public comment to go forward and then
take the matter up.
Just to clarify, item 14 is the fire
department's plan, not not this item.
The fire department the
informationational item.
It's anformational item,
not for action.
Um
it's not it's not this item.
It's not this item.
It is item 14. It is the fire
department's 10year strategic plan and
and look forward. That's the last item.
It's anformational item. I It's not this
item. Seeing your looks.
Yeah, it's not this item.
We're on item 11 right now. Yeah,
we're saying item 14 is not happening.
We're on 11 right now.
14 is not happening. We're on 11 right
now.
14's not happening.
And 14 is also an important issue. And I
don't want us to give it, you know,
short trip. I think we should have fresh
minds and
and and so there are five public comment
cards submitted for item 14 on the fire
department. If you are here for that,
we can hear
we can hear your public comments after
we get to that item and it's going to
come back in the future. So you can wait
near future a few weeks,
a couple weeks. they can wait until the
you can wait until we get to item 14
when we're going to continue it to
another meeting or you can um come back
when it's back on the agenda.
I just don't want people to wait um and
then the matters put off because of the
hour. So I apologize.
Um so with that um
item 11,
back to item 11.
Should
we take public comments for item 11? We
could do that.
The other Oh, so there were only two
things that I had mentioned um about the
staff report. Otherwise, I'm supportive
of it.
I've noted them. Council member,
thank you.
Vice Mayor, do you want to do public
comment?
Yeah.
Okay. So, we'll do public comment on
item 11. Uh Dr. Treasure Shepard,
followed by Charles Thomas, followed by
Brandon Hammerly, followed by Jackie
Heny.
If you hear your name, come forward. Is
Dr. Treasure Shepard here?
Left.
Okay.
You are Charles Thomas.
I am Charles Thomas.
Great.
Welcome, Mr. Thomas. You have two
minutes. Go ahead.
Way to small riot. That was really smart
of you to clarify that. Thank you. This
is 11.
This is This is 11. All right. So,
tonight we're going to be voting on this
RFP that is pretty important to a lot of
people obvious as you can see. Uh and
it's important because it's going to
have profound impacts on workforce
development, providing jobs, promoting
environmental and
uh um racial justice, addressing climate
change, and creating major opportunities
for community healing. The restoration
of the Hamonga annex and creek are two
ideas whose time has come. And to quote
uh Victor Hugal, nothing is as powerful
as an idea whose time has arrived. These
are community uh solutions addressing
systemic social problems. And uh the
need for a conservation job training
center, the need for green more green
space, the need for community healing is
immediate. These are today's problems
that will eventually become tomorrow's
crisis if they're not uh addressed. And
as Dr. King often described it there,
this is the type of need that's also
referred to as the fierce urgency of
now. So before you vote yes to the staff
recommendation, please consider amending
the motion to consider these three
things. One, as noted in items number
two and five of the staff recommendation
uh asking the council to authorize a
demolition of six buildings, please
allow a comprehensive feasibility study
to make the definitive uh determination
for demolition. Now, um I don't try to
brag much, but I am internationally
known as a leader in environmental
education and uh mission excellence. And
I can assure you that the existing
layout of those buildings of the annex
buildings are perfectly set up to
develop a worldclass environmental
education center. Uh, and regarding uh
the last item referring to the one-year
timing of the RFP, now I've worked at
three federal agencies. I'm almost done
here. I've worked at the Army Corps of
Engineers. I've worked at the Forest
Service, and I've worked at the National
Park Service. And each of these
agencies, I've always had an input on
developing RFPs. Now, we know the
federal government is notoriously slow
for uh getting stuff done and moving at
a glacial pace. Well, when we worked
when I worked on these RFPs, they
typically got these RFPs out in 90 days
or no longer than 6 months for projects
much longer than
Mr. the the annex. Yes, I'm I'm wrapping
right now. So it should take about 3
months and um with the amount of
information studies and documents that
have already been written and if it does
take more than that then I would highly
recommend that you either give Mr.
Penosian more staff or you give him new
staff.
So I appreciate the time and I
appreciate you guys consideration on
this. Thank you. Brandon Hammerly
followed by Jack Heny and then Dave uh
Wishoff.
Good evening everybody. My name is
Brandon Hammerly. I am the project
manager for Creek, the Climate
Resilience Environmental Education
Center working for OBA. Um I just want
to clarify from the last time we were
here those questions about who is the
lead organization. Outwardbound
Adventures is the lead organization um
for this Creek initiative. Okay. So um
just want to make sure that's really
clear. We're responsible for managing
the project. We're responsible for
responding to the RFP, carrying it
through a feasibility study, and
ensuring it has sustainable political
and financial support. So, I want to
tell you you all a little bit about the
political and financial support we
currently already have before this RFP
is released. Um, we have secured the
following support. The Santa Monica
Mountains Conservancy has promised a
$250,000 grant to fund the feasibility
study and the planning of the creek
project if OBA is awarded and becomes
the tenant under the RFP. Senator Perez
and Assembly Member Harbedian have
jointly submitted a letter to the state
legislature to support in support of
this project and have requested a direct
allocation of $3 million to fund the
creek initiative from Prop 4 funding.
So, we have right here a joint letter
from Harbedian as well as Perez. Um,
it's in the legislature as we speak. Um,
we submitted a public access grant to
the state wildlife conservation board
for $3.5 million. It is currently also
being considered um with the pending of
the release of this RFP. Um, we have
also met with and engendered the support
of Susie Nemer and Supervisor Katherine
Barger. um and they will be supporting
our submittal of a $500,000 grant uh for
planning and design under their RPOSD.
Um so we've been busy, okay, uh getting
a lot of support for this initiative. Um
I'm really worried about the momentum of
it um getting a road a roadblock, a
speed bump if you will, um because of
this RFP taking so long. So, a whole
year, all of that amazing support that
we have right now, all that momentum we
have, I'm worried about a year-long RFP
really derailing some of that. So, just
please act on that uh excitement that's
happening. Please don't um miss the
opportunities that are before you. I
want you all to be champions of this.
You have a great chance.
Jackie Hy,
I'm going to introduce Jackie and she's
going to tell you a little bit about how
we want to go about this. uh
followed by Dave Wishoff, followed by
Emily Hob Hopkins, and then Heavenly
Hughes.
And I'd like to request that Tristan
Walker go behind me in the order. We
submitted his card. Um if that's okay,
is that okay?
I'll say it's okay.
That's fine. I don't see Mr. Walker, but
I'll uh
refresh. Maybe it's there. Go ahead. You
have two minutes.
Okay. Uh good evening, council members.
My name is Jackie Henzy. I'm
representing Stainer Architects and so
is Tristan in a proono capacity to offer
our professional opinion in support of
transforming the Hahaonga annex into
Creek's vision for an environmental
education center and a living resource
for our community. I'd specifically like
to present our findings on the condition
of the annex buildings and implore the
council to consider adaptive reuse with
imagination. These buildings can be
transformed into a modern code compliant
and usable environmental education
center. Viability of reuse has been
confirmed by a licensed structural
engineer, Matthew Melnik of Noose
Engineering, and we perform an initial
life cycle analysis. Our investigation
confirms that this project is not only
viable from structural and layout
perspectives, but offers significant
environmental benefits relating to
greenhouse gas emissions and solid waste
reductions. A building's initial
construction emits more greenhouse gas
emissions than during its entire
operational lifespan. It can take up to
80 years for energy reduction strategies
to overcome this initial carbon impact.
These buildings already exist and the
carbon from their construction is in the
atmosphere. Earth has paid the carbon
price for these structures. Our
responsibility is to reuse what we have
and consider new construction when
there's no other viable choice. By
reusing just the concrete walls and
foundations, we conserve 317 metric tons
of carbon dioxide. That's equivalent to
the annual energy usage of 139 typical
Pasadena homes or the carbon absorbed by
318 acres of US forests in one year. In
addition, reusing these structures will
divert 968 tons of solid waste from
landfills and the associated carbon
emissions from hauling and dumping.
We're confident the existing masonry
walls and foundations can be repurposed
to meet or ex meet or exceed the
structural provisions of the 2025
California building code. The buildings
are well suited for selective demolition
to transform the annex into something
entirely new. This could involve
expanding openings for more natural
your time is expired.
Raising the ceiling heights and
incorporating a new roof to conjoin
existing structures to create outdoor
classrooms. Thank you.
So, I'm going to pull Tristan Walker out
of the order
and and we don't generally do that.
Followed by Dave Wishoff, then Emily
Hopkins.
Please step forward if you hear your
name.
Thank you for the flexibility. Um, good
evening, council members. My name is
Tristan Walker. I'm also here
representing Stainer Architects as a
proono capacity. Um, we wanted to raise
a concern that extensive demolition will
negatively impact the health of the
existing oak trees on the site. An
assessment by a certified arborist Matt
Riberitch um identified that two trees
in proximity to the four structures with
a diameter of breast height of over 60
in. These trees qualify as heritage oaks
and the largest is already stressed and
needs immediate care. Heavy machinery
from total demolition and new
construction will compact the soil
around the trees, reducing their access
to water, oxygen, and nutrients. While
debris will contaminate the soil, the
widespread presence of invasive mustard
seed on the site is competing with the
oak trees for resources, making the
trees vulnerable to disease, drought,
and fire.
A large pile of dead wood and mulch on
site further increases fire risk and can
introduce invasive beetles identified as
a significant threat specifically to
mature oaks. There's an immediate need
for on-site intervention to protect
these heritage oaks. We encourage
council to approve Creek's request to
introduce a motion to amend agenda item
number two from potential demolition to
selective demolition and agenda item
number five from demolish and rebuild to
adaptively reuse. This is a project that
aligns directly with Pasadena's climate
action plan. It prioritizes reusing
existing buildings, reducing waste, and
limiting new construction. This is a
project that benefits our community and
our environment. and I urge you to
define the parameters for an RFP that
prioritizes adaptive reuse, a
construction model essential to our
collective future. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you. Um David Dave Wishoff
followed by Emily Hopkins and then
Heavenly Hughes.
Hello. Uh Mayor Gordo, I'm Pasadena City
Council. I'm David Weissoff, vice
president and conservation chair of
Pasadena Ottabbon Society and wish to
emphasize the importance of expediting
the issuance of the RFP as well as
accelerating the RFP decision process
and signing a contract to proceed. The
Creek the Creek Coalition
enthusiastically working for over three
years on the project is ready now to
reply to the RFP quickly, completely and
in response to the needs of the
community. As you're aware, the annex
area of the watershed park has been
derelic for many years. It is a
temporary rotating dumping ground for
tons of miscellaneous dead trees,
leaves, trunks, creating a fire hazard
and a risk of personal injury and
beetles. The vacant buildings are
unattended and at risk of vandalism as
well as inviting personal injuries and
other hazards to park users who might
visit the location day or night just on
an occasional basis. And we have seen
that going through the the area uh
individuals and also small groups of
children going through the this property
in its current state. The mission of
Pasadena Ottabon is to bring the
excitement of birds to our community
through birding education conservation
of bird habitats. Pasadena Ottabons
actively supports these activities but
is severely limited by the lack of
suitable venues to do so. Especially
since each eaten Canyon is closed and
will not be reopened for many years. We
forecasted we could readily provide free
public education, recreational, and
conservation offerings at Creek nine
times a month, more than trebling our
support to passing area families,
schools, and multicultural demographics.
And not only will we be three times the
number of events, educational programs,
etc., But we are currently limited to 25
people per per meeting by by what we
have access.
Your time is we could triple that.
Sir, your time is up. We want to be fair
to everyone.
The time is now quickly to thank you.
Thank you.
Emily Hopkins, followed by Heavenly
Hughes, followed by Marcus Rener, then
Jessica Blickley,
then Marcos Aguilar.
Go ahead.
Hi. Um, members of council and Mayor
Gordo, thank you for having me today.
Um, I am a resident of district 1. My
name is Emily Hopkins, uh, and current
resident. I'm back. Um, executive
director of Sid Street Projects and
Creek Coalition member. Um, I am
actually reading a public statement on
behalf of our communications manager,
Stephanie Ailles, who is also a District
1 resident because she is born and
raised here, and I think that her
experience speaks more to the urgency.
My name is Stephanie Ailles. I am a
proud District 1 resident, the daughter
of Salvador and immigrants and a first
generation college graduate. I grew up
in Pasadena. I attended Washington
Elementary and Middle School and John
Mir High School. I am here today not
only as a community member but a proud
team member of the visual arts
organization side street projects who
deeply values the city. The Haha Manga
an annex has great potential to become a
vibrant community hub by uplifting local
voices and engaging residents through
art and more. For example, I can see our
free intergenerational art skillshares
workshops being a place of sanctuary for
folks to connect with community centered
artists and learn new skills. I still
remember school field trips with my
grandma to the Eaten Canyon Nature
Center learning about my backyard's
wildlife. Now, imagine something like
that in Northwest Pasadena, offering
programs in intergenerational art and
environmental education. This is the
future I envision and I hope you'll
support it by releasing the RFP as soon
as possible so that we can get to work.
Thank you.
Good timing. Thank you.
Well, actually, you
Hello. Hello. Hello. It's so great to
see all of your faces tonight. We're
still up and at it, right? This this
topic is the most important topic to us
right now. So, I'm glad that it was not
being moved to another night. Um, we
really want to Everything's been said,
right? Everything's been said. It's very
important. Um, why we want to have this
environmental
climate, all the things, right? The
climate, the environment, education,
inclusive, diversity, healing in nature,
all the things that we need right now in
our community. It's available. It's
before us. It's right here before us.
All we have to do is vote and say let's
get this RFP. We want to say yes to
that. Yes to the RFP and we want to make
some adjustments saying let's get it
within the next next 90 days because
what I understand is that the haha manga
annex has been sitting for over 20 years
right so it's been dormant like death
kind of like a space that's been
grieving although it has all this um
life that can be activated right in that
space right I'm actually experiencing
that with all my neighbors in Aladena
right Now we're grieving, right? We want
to activate this space. And when we see
that places like Hahaanga annex sitting
for 20 years is a little discouraging
because we we don't want to see that
happen in Aladino. We don't want to see
that happen in Pasadena where places are
sitting 20 years dormant waiting for
decisions to be made. So I'm just glad
that decisions are going to be made
tonight to activate this space to be
able to say let's get this RFP out there
so decision so people can apply for the
RFP. Um when you do the RFP RFP is
giving access to many people to uh be a
part of it. Although I think the Creek
Coalition is very prepared. Um yes we
are. Yes we are. um yet we are we
understand that this opportunity needs
to be a process and so let's get this
process going. Thank you so much for
listening.
Thank you.
Thank you Miss Hughes.
So then it's Marcus Rener, Jessica
Blickley, then Marcos Aguilar and then
Anna Soul River.
Okay. Thank you. I'm just going to coast
on Heaven Heavenly's energy that she
just brought. Um, I'm speaking to you as
somebody who just uh finished a dissert
PhD dissertation from UC Davis in
geography on environmental justice in
Pasadena and along the Aoyo. And I just
want to underscore the real opportunity
to address environmental justice which
is as I understand it a required mandate
of the state to incorporate into our
general plan.
A lot of this opportunity has to do with
the history. 25 years before the first
uh environmental justice summit in
Washington DC, Outerbound Adventures was
taking young people of color into the
outdoors and introducing them to
conservation careers.
There's a place for the co-founders of
OBA, Helen Mary Williams, Helen and
Leroy Chris, and Bud Ross to be embraced
by the city in the pantheon of civil
rights leaders in line with Jackie
Robinson, in line with Octavia Butler.
that this is an opportunity because of
this history to honor it. Um
before getting a PhD, I got did a wrote
a master's thesis on conservation
education. Um there was a distinction
made uh at the finance committee meeting
between nature education as Eden Canyon
and workforce development. But the best
environmental education connects nature
education, our plants and wildlife, um,
to how we treat each other, to how we
build and power our cities, to how we
manage our water, to environmental
engineering, to the environmental
careers young people dream of, and to
the workforce skills that they need to
make those dreams a reality. Not many
environmental education groups take on
that challenge, but that's what Creek
aspires to. Um, so there's a real
opportunity here. I know you're just
approving the RFP, but thinking about
building and honoring the OBA founders
and um not only teaching about nature,
but joining that with workforce
development for conservation careers and
starting green businesses for Pasadena.
Thank you.
Thank you,
Jessica Blickley, followed by Marcos
Aguilar, then Anna Soul River.
Thank you. Good evening. My name is
Jessica Blickley and I'm Pr I'm a
professor at Pasadena City College where
I've been teaching biology for the last
12 years. I'm here to speak in strong
support of Creek and the RFP for the
Haha Watershed Park annex.
In our classes at PCC, we use the Haha
Watershed Park and the Aoyo as a living
laboratory.
It's a critical part of our curriculum
where students apply the academic
knowledge and technical field skills
that they are learning in class. um by
collecting real data and engaging in
authentic research beyond the academic.
For many students that have grown up
here, these trips are their first
opportunity to connect with the nature
in their own backyard. I have seen it
time and again. These experiences in the
Aoyo spark a genuine and lasting
connection to the natural world and
inspire careers in conservation,
environmental science, and environmental
education.
Creek will amplify this work. The
proposed environmental education center
will provide a permanent home for
hands-on learning both in the classrooms
and in the field. Equally important, it
will serve as a vital hub to connect
students with community members and
environmental organizations that are
working here in our local community.
Environmental education for the
community and by the community.
Crucially, it will also provide
essential job training for envir
environmental and conservation careers,
preparing the next generation to face
our most pressing climate challenge.
Creek represents more than an
environmental education center. It's a
community-driven investment in
Pasadena's future. I urge you to move
forward without delay by expediting the
RFP process and avoiding unnecessary
demolition. Our students and our
community need this center now. Thank
you for your time and your support in
bringing this initiative to life.
Thank you.
Marcos Aguilar Fab River
My name is Marcos Aguilad. I serve as an
executive director of Anawa Kalmechak.
We're the only indigenous people school
in all of Los Angeles County. I'm also a
head of the Secat Community Development
Corporation by which we liberated 12
acres of land in Northeast LA that were
rematriated to the Gabalino Shashon
Nation. And through those partnerships,
we met and uh collaborated much more
closely with Outwardbound Adventures and
are here to support the the initiative.
I'm here to express my support for item
11 on the agenda today regarding the
Haamonga watershed park annex area. I'd
like to add my voice of support for the
concept of the climate resilience
education center as proposed by the
coalition including outwardbound
adventures and San Gabriel Ban and
Mission Indians among others. As a Nawa
Mexican indigenous educator, I look
forward to including the proposed
concepts of the of the park annex as a
future learning site for millions of
indigenous children, youth, and families
from across North America who make the
greater Los Angeles area, including
Pasadena their home, our home as we grow
in our autonomous approaches to
indigenous education across the county.
However, with regards to the SQUA
exemption, we urge the council to
conduct formal tribal consultation with
all local tribes in compliance also with
AB52 as a proper and necessary course of
action and a requirement respecting
tribal self-determination and
sovereignty. Thank you very much.
Thank you. And
Anna Soul River,
welcome back.
I'm back. Um, good evening again.
Tonight, I want to emphasize one thing,
alignment. We say we want
sustainability, equity, and climate
resilience, but our actions must align
with those values, especially here in a
place like Hahaonga. We pass an adaptive
reuse ordinance. We can't invest in
climate education through projects like
Creek. And yet, we're still proposing
demolition of usable structures without
full exploration of reuse. That's not
alignment. That's contradiction. If
we're serious about climate action,
adaptive reuse isn't optional. It's
essential. is how we reduce carbon,
preserve cultural memory, a model
responsible land stewardship. Hahaonga
is sacred ground ecologically and
historically. Let's not erase what
exists before we're asked the right
questions. And let's also practic be
practical. The longer we delay an RF FP
and clear guidance, the more these
buildings deteriorate, making reuse
harder, slower, and more expensive. Time
is money. Streamlining adaptive reuse as
the first choice and offering incentives
can actually save time and resources
while staying true to ourselves. I urge
you to amend the recommendation tonight
and to prioritize adaptive reuse before
moving forward. Not as a symbolic
gesture, but as a real commitment to
sustainability, to history, and to the
future we keep talking about. Let's lead
by example and put our policies into
practice. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, ma'am.
That completes public comment on this
item. Be
before we get to council members, maybe
a response to RFP options to address
reuse versus uh new.
Yes, Mayor Gordo, uh safety has been our
priority as it relates to the
recommendation of demolishing the
buildings. Having heard from the
community, there is an opportunity in
the RFP process if council directs. We
can incorporate a feasibility study to
have a firm come in and do the study and
recommend which buildings selectively
can be demolished and which ones can be
preserved for use for adaptive reuse.
That is an option we can incorporate in
the RFP if that is council's
recommendation.
Okay. Thank you, Mr. And that uh just
for clarification on that um that would
be um paid for by the applicant or the
awardee of the RFP. Correct.
Yes, council member Hampton that is the
intent is once we release the RFP and we
will do our utmost best to expedite it
as fast as possible to release it within
the timelines being requested. uh and
within the RFP will highlight the fact
that the operator and proposers would be
responsible for the feasibility study
the you know the adaptive reuse the
construction necessary rehabilitation as
well as the operation of the site
you mentioned exped I'm so sorry to
everybody that's in the queue but you
mentioned expedite and this is what I
was talking about before when we were
playing musical chairs what does that
mean
the RFP process
the RFP process to have it you would
expedite it
Go go go go go go ahead and then we'll
get back to
Yeah, council member Hender, our intent
is to make sure we capture everything
that should be within the RFP and
consulting with the departments that
should be consulted as well as the LA
County's RPOSD given that the grant we
want to make sure they're comfortable
because they had given a grant. It's in
the report uh uh the area was
rehabilitated and they should have a
say. So part of that process is we're
buying safe timeline to not commit for a
shorter time frame yet allow us actual
reasonable time to put the RFP together
and release it. So uh we will do our
best to release it as fast as possible
but there's still the evaluation and the
interview process that comes afterwards.
So that is our goal. The intent is to do
the best we can to release it sooner
than intended in the report.
Okay, Mr. City Manager.
Thank you, Mayor. Yeah, I just want to
emphasize something Koko said because,
you know, we looked at this, went back
three years and and there's been a long
process here. We wanted to dot the eye
and cross the tees and I thank the
public for and the community for giving
us that time to get it right. And I
think now we bring forward a report that
really has us ready to move forward. Uh,
however, you know, it is important to
remember the buildings have sat vacant
for since 2004. That's in the report.
So, 21 years there's been a lot of
damage to them. There's been theft.
there's been a lot of infrastructure
that's, you know, vandalized. Um, and I
myself went to go see it. I wasn't
allowed to go in because of the dangers
associated with it. So, I I think we
need to be careful on the safety
component. And I think what uh Mr.
Ponosian is telling me and telling us is
that we can work into the RFP process a
way to safely do a feasibility study to
see what can and can't be saved or
reused, what needs to be demolished, and
we can enter into that exercise in good
faith. But I also do want uh everyone to
be mindful of our own safety office went
out and identified all kinds of safety
issues. Asbestous lead, all of the
hazardous materials that are from a
different era that we still have to
contend with. Uh but we can again work
that into an RFP. And as you suggested,
Council Member Hampton, that would be on
the proponents, whoever it is, because
we we're going through an RFP in good
faith. We don't know who's going to um
submit proposals, but we can uh engage
in that process so that we can vet it
carefully and and safely.
Mr. Msudo, followed by Mr. Cole, then
Mr. Jones and Mr. Madison.
You know, thank you very much for uh
letting us know what this is all about.
In fact, I asked them the question from
just on on the side here about the u uh
the feasibility study and and trying to
preserve the buildings if possible. and
and now we're hearing from the city
manager saying how how it's kind of a
real dangerous situation right now
because of safety uh concerns.
Is there a possibility of start going
into that direction of trying to save
the buildings at least some of them?
Council member medicine um sorry council
miss yes there's opportunity is there uh
and it would have to be determined by a
consultant we bring on board or the
proposal we bring on board to do that
study. It is there there is room. The
safety officer has identified methods of
entry to the building, access to the
building to you know play it safe, wear
N95 masks. So we'll have to put criteria
as to who can get access to the building
and what type of work should be done.
They could all be incorporated in the
RF.
I certainly like the idea when uh the
the the speakers were talking about
educational purposes and that that
that's really great, but the adapted
reuse is what caught my attention. So
thank you for your uh of studying that.
Thank you. Um, Mr. Cole, followed by Mr.
Jones
and
Mr. Madison.
I appreciate Mr. Massuda and Mr.
Hampton's uh, comments about expediting
the RFP and about um, uh, doing
everything we can to look at adaptive
reuse. I I'm going to be unusually
direct, mayor, because I find this to be
a surreal situation.
I understand why we um are not just
partnering automatically with Creek.
This is public property and we have an
obligation uh to to have an open
process.
But we've been at this for a couple of
years and literally no one in the
universe
has stepped forward and said, "I would
be vaguely interested in this project
except Creek.
We we have a broad multi-racial
community coalition of credible,
committed, passionate people
who have been on this
like flies on fly paper for years. Mr.
Cole, may I may I interrupt because the
RFP process may need to be voted on. I
I'm I'm not I'm going to look to the
city attorney. The awarding of a
contract. Yeah.
Yeah. The actual contract if there are
multiple
uh
proposal submitted.
Yeah. I I don't want any one of us to
get too far ahead and be accused of
having made up our mind before a
contract with the comments we make
tonight. And so,
yeah, you're just framing
Okay. right now generally not u I
appreciate your comments mayor but
and I and I would like to clarify that
I'm the council member that represents
the area and there's been a lot of
interest of those buildings
for for someone to propose
for the you the use of those buildings
okay
since I've been elected
okay so you expect that there will be
applicants beside Creek
I think that they're doing a great job
at making sure that there are no other
applicants
I
So, so let me let me in in in
consideration
public institutions as well who
in in consideration of of your comments,
mayor, let me let me make this point.
Pastina Playhouse exists today. They
just bought their building because we
partnered with them first um with the
developer and then with the nonprofit
and and we saved um the state theater of
California which now um is stands stands
on its own self-sufficient.
Uh the Western Justice Center,
notwithstanding the arguments over
whether they have weddings, exists
because we partnered with them with a
lease um for a building that um has had
really significant contributions to our
community. We have a Norton Simon Museum
where we still pay to do the landscaping
there. Um, we've partnered with one Aoyo
who have raised money and and done
projects.
We have a extraordinarily long-standing
partnership with an organization called
the Tournament of Roses um where we are
intimately
um connected to them financially and
logistically. Um
and uh the Pastina Armory exists because
uh this city partnered with them. Um
okay, we'll go through an RFP process,
but I think the way to expedite this is
not to exhaustively
create all of the 17,000
possibilities
uh legal, logistical,
financial, etc. but rather to see who is
actually viable. That's more like a a
request for interest. Um, and then to
enter into not just negotiations
about how we can protect ourselves seven
ways from Sunday, but how we can
actually bring into birth as we did the
parade and the bowl, the Norton Simon
Museum, the Pasadena Playhouse,
um, the Western Justice Center, the
Armory Center for the Arts. These were
products of the city partnering
with community organizations. And I
would like to see if if we have a
community organization who wins this RFP
that we not try to solve every problem
beforehand, but rather we find a viable
partner and then we try to solve the
problems with them so that we end up
with a great project. And I think if
that's our approach, there is no
question that we can get this out on the
street in 90 days. And if we have
multiple applicants, great. We'll go
through the process, weigh the um the
pluses and minuses. But if as I suspect
we only have a very small number of
viable um applicants then uh we can get
to moving forward to bringing this dream
into realization. That's my approach um
to this.
Thank you Mr. Cole. Um I don't think
anybody disagrees
I don't think anybody disagrees with the
partnership and the importance of
working with partners. the the the
examples you use, however, none of them
were subject to an RFP.
None of them were subject to the legal
implications and ramifications if we
don't follow the RFP process and law.
This one is subject of an RFP and it's
we're bound by our by our own rules in
handling an RFP as well as um
state and
what's what's the state law on RFPs? Uh
I understand the state
we have to be fair and we can't it has
to be competitive. You you can't just
say we're going to issue an RFP and and
where in the where in the state
predetermined that there's
code does it say that?
There's no rules for requests for
proposals for cities that
for a competitive RFP and this is
there is not mayor. There is there is
for bidding. Yes, absolutely.
There is absolutely for surplus property
but we're making a choice about our
property and there's no state rules on
that
but we've made a decision to have a
competitive and open process. That's the
rule
and and we have our charter and our code
that we would follow with respect to
that the city not as
it's there.
I understand that but that it's not it's
not factual to say there's state law on
this that applies here. It is we have
our own rules and our own laws. We issue
RFIs. We issue RFPs.
Um, and this should, in my view, look
more like an RFI.
That's competitive and it should be
competitive. But the reality is is that
um, we don't have to have an exhaustive
um, process if we end up with one or two
applicants.
That's not what I'm suggesting. And if
we didn't follow our own rules on a
competitive RFP, you better believe the
attorney general would be down here from
the state attorney general to call us on
that. And that's what I mean by
following state rules.
So, we should follow our own rules.
That's all I'm suggesting. Find a
partner. F follow our rules. Find a
partner and work with them as you
suggest in partnership. But if we don't,
the the state implication comes from the
attorney general if we don't do that or
or somebody else. So, um Mr.
Jones,
thanks, Mayor. I only need like five
minutes. Uh, Koko, you said that we
could do a feasibility study um to look
at rehabbing the buildings instead of
demoing them, right? So, you can
incorporate that into your RFP.
Correct. Council member Jones. The what
what I said was incorporate a
feasibility requirement, feasibility
study requirement in the RFP. So the
successful proposals would have to
conduct that hiring the right
consultants and determination of that
study can help guide us which buildings
should or should not be demolished or
selectively choosing which buildings
must be demolished based on the
findings.
Okay, cuz I'm I'm interested in in
repurposing the buildings and adapting
for use of those buildings. And then the
second part was the RFP doesn't
necessarily have to take one year,
right? You can expedite the process and
like how soon could you get it out?
Council member Jones, I don't want to
put a timeline. It's a matter of
resources and sometimes things do get
delayed and held up and I just don't
want to put a timeline. We feel six
months would have been appropriate. It
gives us enough time of whatever delays
we might experience at the different
levels, different organizations that we
have to work with. But the goal now
based on the direction is to expedite it
to get it to uh to be released sooner
than the six month.
Sooner than the six months. Okay. Thank
you.
Okay. Um Mr. Madison, followed by Mr.
Hampton.
Thank you, Mayor. Um, one question I had
was how many acres of the 30 total are
we talking about here?
Council me, this area is roughly about 8
to 10 acres.
Okay.
And then the Oakland comes in the mix as
well. The 30 acres is the entire Hong
area that has all the equestrian
centers, but this location is roughly
about 10 acres.
So, is that the right way to think of it
that we're dealing with an RFP for the
use of the 10 acres or is it just the
buildings or something else? Uh so
council member Madison there were two
areas within the Hamonga annex that
we're considering. One is the former US
forest service which are the buildings
these six buildings and the surrounding
area and then the second area is the
Oakland's the the Woody area which is
the open space that is the second
portion that we're incorporating A and B
together uh for this particular um RFP
process.
Okay. So how many acre because you said
and the surrounding area on the
buildings. So how
buildings in surrounding areas in plus
the oaks the wood oaks is roughly about
10 acres
total
and do you have a division of the the
breakdown of that?
There is a map that actually would show
yes if I could uh pull the
it's I believe it's one of the
attachments and I do have it as a slide.
If we can pull the presentation please
I'd be happy to show that
in the agenda report it is attachment C
that shows.
Thank you. And then is this uh one RFP
for both parcels? Yes sir. Okay.
The intent is to identify both areas
within the RFP and one operator to
commit to both.
Okay. And then um I do think the debate
between two of my colleagues was
interesting but it was a little bit uh
premature. I I do think though that the
um surplus land act does apply right the
California surplus land Act under the
acquisition agreement with MWD.
That that is correct. So, council
memberson, we did reach out to the
housing.
No, my question was just surplus land
act applies.
It it does apply and we are exempt as an
agent for its agency use.
We are exempt
uh we are exempt to from the uh
reporting under the surplus lands act
only because we are considered as agency
use because the intent to use it to
bring a nonprofit organization to
operate as we would it kind of allows
for the exemption.
Okay. So, um we're still bound by the
land act. we just don't have to report
to somebody agency. Okay.
And then um the costs that we have, I
noticed there was a lot of enthusiasm
and even some kind of u maybe overly
robust comments about grant funding
that's been promised or is out there
somewhere and that's great. I hope
that's all real. But for right now, the
question is are those estimates of cost
uh current? Because there's a lot of old
information kind of embedded in this
record. But the
so council member Madison the cost
estimates presented herein were
evaluated and resubmitted with
partnership with our public works
department. It was when we brought this
item to uh the finance committee in May
of this year. I believe it was May.
That's when these numbers were revamped
to more current standards of what the
estimates would be. And of course we
also in the report highlight that these
are estimates as of today. They'll be
like 7% escalation for construction for
future years. And we'll look to the RFP
applicants to address the financing.
Yes, sir.
In whole.
Yes, that is the intent.
Okay. And um is it a long-term lease or
a a land transaction or some other form
or is that not baked in right now?
We will be consulting with the city
attorney's office as to the best
approach. There are a number of ways we
can approach it, whether it be a lease
or an operating agreement for the use of
the area for a long period of time. And
the intent to do a long-term contract
agreement is because the entity is going
to bring forth investment to the
property by way of grants or other
means. We want to make sure that they're
able to get those grants. So longer term
works best in that effort.
Okay. And then this may be a little
premature too, but since we've gotten so
much comment from this one coalition,
which is highly impressive, no question.
But does it include the Tongva and
Hahaonga
um native peoples?
I'm looking at the the organization and
the they're giving me the thumbs up that
yes, it does.
Okay. Can you explain that to me?
St. Gabriel Band of Mission Indians is
coalition.
So it includes the Tongva.
Correct.
So it's the Gabrielino Gabriel
St. Gabriel Mission
St. Gabriel Mission Indian
Band of Indians including Tongva and
Hahaonga.
Correct.
Okay. Great. and their role in this is
is particularly around I mean they have
a very robust role in the coalition but
in particular they're going to be um
managing the the um
well let's not we don't know that you're
going to apply for a letting you know
but
that's the problem that's the problem I
was trying to highlight but sir if you
could identify yourself for the record
myself
yes just for the record
we know you did before but if you could
do that again
Brandon Hammerly uh creek uh project
manager
thank you we we just need to have a
clear record.
Okay, those are my questions. Thank you.
That that's that's precisely
the problem that I was infully trying to
highlight, but okay. Um
so, uh
Mr. Hampton, yeah. Um thank you and I I
thank all my colleagues and the
discussion has um been been great. Um,
to Council Member Nicole's point about
the RFP, I agree that I think the city
could just go into a partnership uh with
any organization, um, I agree with that,
but in principle, I would not vote in
favor of that and I would never do that
because that's the reason why there has
been so many people that look like me
that have been overlooked because the
city has decided to make sure that they
are giving it to whoever their friends
are or whatnot. Um, and that's not just
in the city of Pasadena, that's across
the board. So, I just want to be very
clear here. That's the purpose of a RFP
is to make sure that it's fair for
everyone to be able to um participate in
it. Um, I appreciate the
a real competitive process.
A real competitive process. Absolutely.
Uh, that is notified for everybody and I
appreciate the questions about the
Tongva and the Gallerino tribe being um
a part of the the process in general. I
wish we had had that as a part of the
process. As I mentioned when the one a
royal was being formed, they're still
not a board member at the one of Royal
um that and I every time they come and
present to us, I say, "Where's the
representation from um those tribes?" Um
because the one of Royals essentially
just recreating the same trails that
were already created by um the Native
Americans that were here before. But
once again, I don't know if you guys
were here earlier. Yes, I appreciate it.
But ADHD. Um, so uh the my um my my
motion would be to would to be to put
out the RFP um and make the feasibility
study um on the onus of the awardee of
the RFP. Um number two um as a part of
the motion would be to have the RF we've
already had RFP that was presented for
this before. Isn't that correct?
Not for this purpose.
But there was an RFP for these buildings
at one point
or this space.
Council, not not to my knowledge, not
for the use of the annex. You you may be
referring to the RFP process we start
for the equestrian center to bring new
operators at the equestrian center. That
is process is still pending, but uh we
have not had one released for the annex,
the use of these buildings and this open
space.
Okay. So, this this process um we've
been talking about this I I feel like
I've been talking about this for three
years and um I would like to see now
that we have gotten all the eyes dotted
and tees crossed and we've asked all the
right people um I would like to see this
RFP um go out in 90 days or before the
end of the year.
That would be my request and my motion.
And so my motion would be to make the
physibility study um the onus of the RFP
awardee and um for the RFP to go out
within 90 days or by the end of the year
calendar the end of the actual calendar
year not year.
I'd second that.
Okay.
Is that uh doable?
Mayor Gordo, we will do our utmost best
to make that doable. Uh I do have a
clarification question. The assumption
would be that the other items which
would be three and four as in the uh the
organizations the entities allowed to
submit and the uses are also part of the
motion being adopted.
Yes.
So all the staff the recommendations one
through five because it includes squa
and some other
uh questions comments.
Okay.
And who was the seconder? I
I don't know. Oh, Mr. Lion.
Lion.
Thank you.
Speaking of dotting eyes and crossing
tees,
we have a motion and a second. Um,
and I think this is deserving of a roll
call vote. You, you've all worked very
hard to get us to this point. Don't
interpret any of our comments as
predetermining one way or the other. I
think you all understand the open and
competitive process and why it's
important for us to follow the rules and
and have it be a real open and
competitive process. I do suspect that
the work that's been done is going to
pay dividends. Uh but I'm not prepared
to predetermine that, nor would it be
appropriate for any of us to do that.
So, with that, um,
let's, uh, take a roll call vote.
Uh, Council Member Cole,
yes.
Council member Hampton,
this is item 11. Yes.
Council member Jones,
yes.
Council member Lion,
yes.
Council member Madison,
yes. Take off.
Council member Massuda,
yes.
Vice Mayor Rivas,
yes.
Mayor Gordo,
yes.
Motion is unanimously approved.
Okay. Again, thank you to the public um
and all of the staff and everyone who's
gotten us to this point.
I got to
seems like it's slow, but we have to get
it right.
Okay, with that, um we have items 12 and
13 left. Mayor, it's a public hearing.
This is the time and place for the
public hearing on ordinance on the
ordinance
on the ordinance prohibiting Senate Bill
9 applications within a very high fire
hazard severity zone in the boundary of
the Eaton fire. On August 28th, 2025,
the public hearing notice was published
in the Passina Press. The city clerk's
office received three letters in
opposition to the staff recommendation
and advocating for the city to maintain
the implementation of SB9. The letters
have been distributed to the council,
posted online, are part of the record
for this public hearing item.
Um, do we have public comment?
Uh, we have two speakers on and we're
taking up items 12 and 13 concurrently.
Okay. Why don't we open the public
hearing? Um,
public hearing is open
and uh I think the matters pretty
straightforward.
Um why don't we unless anyone needs a
full presentation
um why don't we just go straight to
public comment
uh Bert Newton followed by Andrew
Slackom Slum sorry
it's
yeah good evening uh mayor and city
council so my concern with this is that
um the SB9 would be a good tool for
people who are underinsured and who have
lost their homes in the fire to be able
to rebuild uh they can sell uh half of
their lot to uh to someone who's going
to live in it because that SB9 requires
owner occupancy. Um so it's probably not
going to be used by anybody else. It'll
probably be because those who can
rebuild on their whole lot will probably
do so. It's only people who really need
to who are underinsured that could use
SB9 to rebuild. And if they can't do
that, they may sell to an outside
investor. They'll sell the whole lot.
SB9 would not allow that. it would only
allow it to be sold to um to somebody
who's going to live in it. So, um so if
we want to have our people stay and and
be able to move back and rebuild, we
need to let SB9 uh stand and and allow
them to use that. Um I I don't think
it'll be that many people, but it will
be the people who really need it.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you,
Mr. Sloum.
Yeah. Um do for since we're doing two
items concurrently, can I speak twice on
each one? Yeah. Okay. Um good evening uh
council members and uh mayor.
Well, no.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Uh on the two items. Yeah.
You can speak on both items. You'll have
two minutes to speak, right?
For each item.
No, two minutes.
Okay. All right. Um anyway, I want to
make it clear that banning SB9 does not
actually reduce the number of units that
can be built. Um under state law, ADUs,
the same number of units is still
allowed even in areas with limited
entry. What the ban really does is
punish homeowners. ADUs are valued far
lower than SB9 because they are
illegally accessory, not primary. The
lower valuation means homeowners will
have less equity, less access to
financing and insurance is now valued on
the equity that you now have. Um, in
addition to this, underinsured families
may use a lot split to sell their lot as
Bert had said, and that may be the only
reason they're able to rebuild and stay
here. Um, on top of that, the number of
80 or SP9 applications will be extremely
small. There's not going to be a
floodgate. So, I think taking the
knee-jerk reaction that mayor's failed
policies of city Los Angeles, which will
be facing a lawsuit over this, uh, as it
is a legislative authority in violation
of constitutional separation of powers
under the California Emergency Services
Act, is not a way that Pasadena should
go. I think we're better than City of
LA. And so I urge you to not move
forward with this ban that strips
residents of value, equity, and choice
without actually solving a housing or
safety problem.
Thank you.
That completes public comment on this
item.
Okay.
Um
questions, comments,
question.
Oh, I'm sorry. Vice Mayor Rivos.
Actually, Mayor, if Council Cole has a
question. Go ahead, Mr. Go ahead. How
how many lots I don't know if that did I
miss that in the staff report.
There are 185 approximately 185 parcels
that would be subject to the ban.
Okay. Thank you.
Go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you, mayor. Um
and I'll be brief given the late hour.
Um, I totally understand
the policy reason for uh suspending SB9
in a high density area with limited
points of entry and exit like we saw in
the Palisades on that afternoon of Jan
of January 7th where it was just a
traffic jam and they were bulldozing
cars out of the way. That's I think the
nightmare scenario that city of LA was
trying to avert or try not to make
worse. So, I totally understand in that
scenario why we'd want to suspend SB9,
try not to bring in more density to that
neighborhood that dealt with a
catastrophe. Um, this neighborhood did
as well in Upper Hastings, homes burned,
but we didn't have that evacuation
um blockage essentially. There are, I
believe, based on the map provided and I
think it's exhibit B, four entry points,
north south streets going to those 185
homes. And so to my knowledge and and I
defer of course to staff and council
massudas, your district, you know it
well. Um, in this area that we're
talking about, was there was there were
there traffic jams or did people have
trouble getting out because the roads
are blocked? because I feel like that's
the that's the main concern that we're
trying to address through this this
proposed action.
I can speak to that. I did uh speak to
the fire chief and they confirmed that
there were not um evacuation and
issues or cars coming in and out. I
think from the staff perspective, it's
an area where we wouldn't want more
density. You know, we would like to
focus our density in other areas. Um,
under ADU law, you can get up to four
um, units, but most of these lots did
already had attached garages. So, you'd
be probably be looking at a maximum of
three. You wouldn't be looking at these
sites getting four ADUs because they're
not converting a detached garage. So,
there would be potential for another
unit on each one of these lots that they
wouldn't get under ADU law. So, I think
just from the policy perspective of
planning, it's not an area where we
would like to see four times in the
extreme scenario. We know that not every
property would do it, but right
potentially four times over the amount
of um rebuilding going on on the
properties. So from that perspective,
it's not traditional grid streets. Um
you have some that are one way in, one
way out. Um you don't have as many
access points and so they have to funnel
into the streets to get out. And so just
from a planning perspective, that was
our approach. But again, it's it's up to
the will of the council.
I I appreciate that explanation. And can
you remind me how many SP9 projects
we've had in the city in the last
We've had um four pull permits citywide
and we've had one um as a result of the
fire that is outside of this area there
in council district 1. So this only
impacts one portion of um council member
a very small portion. Totally
understand.
So yeah, the fact that we over the last
several years haven't seen many SP9
projects and in this tiny little sliver
of a neighborhood we're unlikely to see
many. Um, I'm uncomfortable with taking
an option away from perhaps that one
homeowner that want does want to do a
lot split or maybe does want to make use
of the ADU provision. So, you've
explained um and we've heard that there
are other ways to build ADUs, not
necessarily through AB9. So, uh through
SB9, sorry. So, again, just to wrap up,
I I don't feel like the case been made
for this neighborhood here. Um, and I
would hate to take away that option from
that one neighbor who's that one
resident who's trying to rebuild and
maybe does want to to have that
flexibility to do that here. Um, but
again, I appreciate the staff bringing
this up and I look forward to hearing
everyone else's comments. Thank you.
Um,
Mr. Cole,
I uh I share the concern of of of the
vice mayor. Look, um,
a couple of these streets maybe we
should never have built on, right? I
mean, that's arguably particularly the
ones that are dead ends.
Um, but state law will allow additional
density through ADUs.
Um, and very few people probably will
take advantage of these. These are big
homes on big lots. Um, and uh, if
anything, I think people will build
bigger houses um, rather than than do
lot splits. Um, I we haven't heard from
from the council member who represents
the area. I I I don't see the urgent
need for the handful of cases that that
uh, that might eventuate from this and
particularly given that the difference
between what you can build in the way of
ADUs and what you can build under SP9 is
is dimminimous. But there's a
significant advantage to the homeowner
if they take the SB9 route. Um, so, uh,
I if if we were to compromise, and I
don't know if there's any interest in
that, uh, at least just confine it to
the to the deadend streets right there.
Streets like Valley Lights, um, you
know, have have plenty of access, um, up
and down. So that would be I would be
more comfortable with that um than just
saying you know SB9 doesn't apply here.
it. I think the number of people
affected one way or the other is going
to be probably counted on one hand. And
um there's, you know, we have to weigh
the the concerns uh about um uh fire
danger and density against um the desire
to allow people to rebuild um in in the
neighborhood that they've lived in in
many cases for a number of years.
Yeah. I um let let me say as someone who
represents that part of the city as well
and is very familiar with it. Um there
there are concerns about uh getting out
in an emergency um and you know those
were expressed. Our fire department did
a and you know city staff in general did
a phenomenal job of getting people out
but that could have been a very day
different situation. these 139 property
owners who were impacted. Um uh uh you
know
we want to do everything we can to
support them and we have I think it's
very telling uh and this is a partly a
statement and partly a question that I I
I don't know where you live Mr. Slokum.
Um, but residents who were impacted are
not here objecting to this. Have they
expressed a view one way or another?
Have the residents said no, don't don't
do this.
My microphone might have not to staff.
Yeah. I and this is a group of residents
who believe me has been very very
engaged
uh in in uh everything that uh we've
done to to be responsive. what we're
trying to
what I think the intent of setting aside
SB9 is to not create the situation that
you know you're describing uh Miss Rivas
um and you know there are infra
infrastructure issues in terms of fire
hydrants there are um access issues uh
and there's the question of whether or
not we should be um constructing
um in areas like this whether we as Mr.
Cole said whether we should have uh and
now the question is whether we should um
increase the density there. Some of
these lots are right up they're in
canyons. They're right up against the
foothills. Um, and
you know, I I think we have to be
careful about creating another situation
like that. And so, uh, I I you know, I
plan to support, uh, the motion. Um,
um, and if I'm sorry, there's no motion.
I I plan to support the staff
recommendation for all of those reasons
unless we're prepared to say we're going
to increase the capacity of our
infrastructure to meet the needs of the
additional
um density and we're okay with
increasing density in this neighborhood
uh given what we've experienced in
Altadena this neighborhood and uh other
and in Los Angeles
I I think that would be a mistake for us
to do. Mr. Massuda, did you have a
Thank you. And Vice Mayor, we didn't
have the congestion you're talking about
like in Palisades and Malibu area
because u you know I'm familiar with
that as well. Uh uh if you remember the
uh we were going through a red flag
alert right before that and so we're of
course you know being in the uh you know
the hills over there in upper Hastings
were very concerned but um I don't know
what your question is because we we
don't in in fact the of course the the
the people that live there that were
supposed to leave because it was
evacuation
requirement they didn't bottom of them
didn't leave. So that's uh that probably
added to the lack of a congestion. So
what is your question about that?
Sure. So my question and I think um
Jennifer answered it was essentially
I see the logic of suspending SP9 or
avoiding density.
Yes.
Where there's a potential for traffic
trams where there's only one point of
ingress. You know, people can only get
out through one street. Only get in
through one street. and we have the
situation we had in the Palisades which
was horrific and terrifying uh for those
folks. Um I again I just don't see that
this neighborhood is that situation. So
I I think what the city of LA did in the
Palisades makes 100% sense here because
there's we only talking about about 100
homes as opposed to hundreds feeding
into one street. We have about 180 I
think it is feeding into four streets
and some of them are culde-sacs for
sure. Um, I just don't I see it as two
different scenarios. Um, and and we we
went through the worst. We went through
the worst that could have happened and
we didn't have the traffic jams and I
think Council Member Cole's point is is
very important and just that at the end
of the day, no matter which way we go,
it's going to affect a handful of
people. we're not really gonna
it's and so that's and for me that
pushes me towards leaving things as they
are for that one or two homeowners who
do want to make use of SP9. I really
don't think we're going to see a a rush
to do something. Um so in the grand
scheme of things, I don't, you know, I
don't think we're going to shift things
too much in either direction no matter
what action we take. But for me
personally, I think the case hasn't been
made um like it was in the Palisades uh
to suspend SB9. And I want to make sure
that all homeowners, you know, whoever
that is out there, it might be just one
or two of them that want to use it. If
if that probably none, honestly, just
looking at the numbers of SB uh 9
projects in the last three years across
the city. So, but I want to make sure
they have all the options on the table
as homeowners going through a very
difficult uh situation and through the
rebuilding process. So,
you know, the the only thing I would say
to that is um it wasn't we're not just
talking about the properties that were
impacted. We're talking about the rest
of the neighborhood as well.
Absolutely. And they all feed down into
those.
We didn't see what happened in Los
Angeles, you know, um for two reasons.
Um well, the whole host of reasons, but
one is the wind shifted.
um you know the wind was headed uh in an
easterly direction and then shifted in a
westerly direction.
One two we issued our evacuation orders
before Los Angeles or the county did and
our staff evacuated as many people as
would leave. And so our process
um was different. We handled it proudly.
Um absolutely you know different but we
also you know
had some and again my thoughts to the
people who were and prayers to the
people who were impacted but if that
wind hadn't shifted you know but for the
grace of God if that wind hadn't shifted
we might be looking at a
totally different situation including
people not being able to get out in time
and that's what we're guarding against
that what I'm suggesting we guard
Mr. Cole,
uh, just a final comment and and then I
think we should take a vote here. Um, I
think we all are concerned about um
protecting the the neighborhoods and I
think we all are concerned about giving
um people the maximum option to to
rebuild where appropriate. Um, again,
for me um
we don't control the number of cars that
people have in their house. We don't
control the number of people that live
in a house. Um, we don't have any
control over the number of ADUs that are
allowed by by state law. So, we're
talking probably of these 185 homes,
we're talking about the margin of error
one way or the other, the margin of
error of people moving in and six people
moving into a house instead of three
people or um or a single person. So I to
me I would be much more comfortable with
just the the deadend streets. I think
there's a real concern on the deadend
streets. Um but I respect other people's
views. So um because the staff
recommendation is is uh I think we've
heard at least two voices in favor of
it. Um I will move that we um uh limit
it to just the deadend streets. And if
that doesn't pass, then I'll I will
support the staff recommendation.
And and what's your recommendation on
infrastructure improvements if um we
increase the density up there?
I think it's in the margin of error of
the number of people that live there and
the number of people that that can build
ADUs. I think I think the the there's
185 lots. Um, not not everybody is going
to be adding any units, but anybody can
add up to three units. This would add up
to four units. The difference between
the people who can add three and the
people that can add four is about the
same as the number of of older couples
that sell their home and now a family
moves in with two teenagers. I mean,
it's it's a very small number. So, I
don't think there's going to be a need
for any more fire hydrants or any any
less fire hydrants um in the end. But,
um but again, let's let's let's try this
out and um and see if there's any
support for that besides me and the vice
mayor. And if not, then we move with the
staff recommendation. So, that's my
motion. If the vice mayor will second
it.
Sure, I'll second it.
Well, just point of order. Can I ask
council member Massuda what your
position is on this? Are you supporting
the staff recommendation?
I am.
Okay.
I'm going to support the council member
from the district.
Yeah. And I had a
and the mayor
and the
sorry and the mayor for the whole city.
I had a a quick follow-up question. So,
have residents in Hastings Ranch reached
out to you asking for this to
voicing their opinion one way or the
other or No,
they haven't.
No, no, but uh um I definitely uh know
where they are from Yeah. just just from
talking to them in general.
Yeah, I'm I'm prepared to support the
the representatives of the area. So, I
would support the staff motion or
recommendation.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Um,
well, we have a motion and second. Any
other comments?
Okay. So this is to limit uh the
Oh,
and if if we hear
and if we hear different from the
residents, we should be prepared to
to shift gears, so to speak.
Well, the motion is not what the council
member from the district and the mayor.
Correct. Right. So, correct. Should
there be a
sub meaning if I I'm I'm not going to
support the the motion as it is.
Thank you.
And um and if we get you know feedback
from the neighbors saying you know we
just you blew it and you know believe me
Mr. Masuda will hear about it. The staff
will hear about I will hear about it and
we should you know inform them
immediately that this motion has passed
or I mean sorry that that this motion
has passed or that um the staff
recommendation if this motion doesn't
pass uh hopefully that will pass and we
should inform them either way.
I appreciate that mayor. just reading
the room, I think the staff
recommendation will ultimately pass. And
I just appreciate you being open to
listen to the residents because if there
is that one homeowner that comes in,
it's like, man, I really want to do a
lot split, but you guys are not letting
me, at least we can, you know,
reconsider at that point. So, I I I
appreciate that.
Well,
I'm not sure if the staff recommendation
passes reading the room. And so I
thought I thought this was a a smart
compromised position to actually address
the streets where we have a an an an
egress issue. So
we'll see where we
and just procedurally to remind everyone
this is an interim ordinance. So we will
return within 45 days to extend it
longer if something if there's something
to pass. We would so it would be this is
for 45 days. We are having a workshop um
on the 18th. It's the 18th um with our
fourth workshop with the residents so we
can we can socialize some of this as
well. So when we come back um after the
45 days we will have some feedback and
we can provide more information at that
time as well. And believe me, I know
that neighborhood well having attended
Pasadena High School and spent a lot of
time in that neighborhood with friends
and there are but for that windshifting
there would have been ingress and egress
issues. Um and but for the wind shifting
and our staff, you know, acting swiftly,
um there would have been problems beyond
what we saw. So
So if the staff recommendation passes,
you'll socialize it for 45 days, you
said. And then if you hear from
residents that no, we wanted to do lot
splits, you would come back to the
council. we have to reach. This is an
interim emergency ordinance, so we have
to return within 45 days. And we would
ask the council to extend it for up to
two years unless the emergency order is
lifted, then it everything goes away
anyways. Um, and we're having a workshop
on the 18th, so we we were going to let
people know what happened tonight as
part of the other updates that we're
giving so they'll be aware of what
happened. Um, and we'll explain that
we're going to be coming back in 45 days
and so if they have strong opinions one
way or another that they could
participate if we come back with
something. Congratulations, Jennifer.
You just po co coined a new term,
socialize, uh our policy decisions. I
like that.
Yeah. Okay. Um
procedurally, mayor, uh we need to close
the public hearing first before we
Okay. Motion to close the public
hearing.
Second.
Moved and seconded. Uh any objections?
Seeing none, public hearing is closed.
Uh now on the merits, we have a motion
is
to limit to the dead end streets.
Mhm.
Um, you want me to roll call?
Uh, Council Member Cole,
yes.
Council member Hampton is absent.
Council member Jones,
no.
Council Lion,
yes.
Council member Madison,
no.
Council member Massuda,
no.
Vice Mayor Rivas,
yes.
Mayor Gordo,
no.
That's three in favor, four against. The
motion does not pass.
I will move staff recommendation.
I'll second if Mr. Masuda wants the
motion.
Mr.
I thought I did make the motion already.
So, Mr. Cole,
I'm happy. I'm happy to know that M Mr.
Massuda I was in the spirit of trying.
Yeah. Yeah.
You all heard. We had a vote.
Yeah.
Um it was not successful. So, we move
on. That's all.
Mr. Massuda will Yeah.
And you'll you'll second.
I'll make the motion to support.
You represent the area. You should
second.
Oh, okay. Thank you. I'll second.
Thank you, Mr. Jones. I appreciate
approve the staff recommendation moved
by Mr. Massuda, second by Mayor Gordo.
Uh, roll call.
Council member Cole,
yes.
Council Hampton is absent. Council
Jones,
yes.
Council Lion,
yes.
Council Madison,
yes.
Council Msuda,
yes.
Vice Mayor Rivas,
no.
Mayor Gordo,
yes.
Motion uh passes. Six in favor, one
against.
And then uh we have to do the ordinance.
Mr. MSU, you want to offer the
ordinance?
Yes, I would.
Okay. So,
there's the ordinance. There we go. This
is an uh interim urgency ordinance of
the city of Pasadena prohibiting urban
lot splits and construction of multi-
sorry construction of multiple dwellings
pursuant to Senate Bill 9 in very high
fire hazard severity zones within the
boundary of the Eden fire
uh to conduct first reading. Council
member Cole,
yes.
Council Hampton's absent. Council member
Jones,
yes.
Council Lion,
yes.
Council member Madison,
yes.
Council Msuda,
yes. Vice Mayor Rivas,
no.
Mayor Gordo,
yes.
Uh, ordinance was successfully first
read, uh, with, uh, six in favor, one
against, one absent.
Okay. On the socialization.
Now, um,
that completes
that does complete. Item 14 was not
discussed and I don't see anybody left
over to give public comment on that.
Okay. Now I I would ask that we stand.
Mayor, before we do that, just in the
manner of agenda items and the like, um
I have asked a couple times that we
agendaize the Guanowato city sister city
um relationship. U there's an invitation
outstanding to the entire council and
the mayor to attend events next month.
Now the time is passing and um I'd like
to know if we're going to do that. If
not, then I'd request that we formally
agendaize a motion to put it on the
agenda. I would hope that's not
necessary. I think there's a you know
interest on all of our part to move
forward with a sister city relationship
in in Mexico. Um especially given the
events that we're living under now. So
um just would love to know your your
view on that. Well, my my view is, you
know, the sister city um
the sister city program is an
international program that focuses on
building relations
uh and working together. Um the fact
that, you know, the the the approach
fails to even take account, you know, or
go through our own sister city committee
um flies in the face of that spirit. Um,
I've not heard our sister city um
committee make a recommendation to us.
Um, and I'd be interested in modeling
what the sister city program is all
about right here in our city. And so um
I you know I happy to agendaize
that issue um and that question um
whether we should model in our own
process what the sister city
uh program attempts to achieve.
So, um,
yeah, I'm fine with that as long as it
includes the opportunity for us to, um,
you know, pursue that relationship with
Guanowato. I mean, there is a report. I
I don't think it's unanimous on the
sister city, but they they arranged a
visit here, they've visited there.
Uh, I think there's pretty overwhelming
support for it. Somehow it seems to have
been politicized there, and I'm not
interested in that. I want to move
forward. And frankly, it's embarrassing
now that we've hosted the mayor and
she's hosted a contingent and now she's
asked the council and the mayor to
attend the Day of the Dead uh
celebration with her. There's no other
alternative on the table, near as I can
tell.
That's that's that's inaccurate, but I I
I would ask that the
there's no publicly available
information about any other alternative.
no politicized recommendation that's
made it appear that there's no one else
ready to participate. And so, you know,
I would ask that the sister city
committee
um weigh in and tell us uh whether there
are others under consideration whether
um that's their recommendation and then
we can make a decision. So, that's what
I would recommend.
So, we can we can have that discussion.
But will you include the option? Because
again, I would just I just want to make
sure that's included. So the council has
the power to do that. I don't I don't
want to get caught in a catch 22 if the
agenda doesn't include that.
Yeah, I'll I'll ask the sister city
committee their their view. Um because
they're they're the ones, you know, the
last time there was public comment here
on that issue. Um I suggested that we go
through the sister city committee and
one of the speakers said well we can
just you know essentially do it
ourselves
and that I think it was Mr. Gonzalez,
you know, and that just in my view that
approach flies in the face of what we're
trying to do. And so, you know, we'll
I'll ask the sister committee to weigh
in whether we should take their
recommendation so that that feedback is
before the council when we take the
issue up.
Yeah. So I'm going to ask then that we
formalize formally agendaize next Monday
a motion to pursue Guanowato so that
we'll have that option as well and u the
council will have to vote on that under
our rules of procedure to have it
agendaized. That's unfortunate because
again maybe there are backroom
conversations but there's been no public
pursuit. No let me just finish there've
been no public uh information about any
other relationship. uh there have been
no visits by any other city. There have
been no uh nothing certainly publicly
available and it should be a public
process.
That that's that's an accurate one. Uh
there have been visits um and there have
been people who expressed an interest
and I've always referred them through
the appropriate process to go to sister
cities.
That's what's different about this
and we're talking
but I don't think sister city has done
anything nearly as substantial as what
they have with Guanowat though. I don't
I'm not aware of any official exchanges.
Um
but but yeah, we're probably getting too
far down.
I'm making a motion to have this agenda.
Can I do that tonight?
You can make it You can make a motion to
have a future agenda item. Yes.
Okay. I thought I had to.
Yeah, I think we have to listen.
I thought we had to agendaize that
motion. Yeah.
And so you're making a motion to have
this considered for the agenda at the
next meeting,
please. And
my understanding is the process
you want them to vote next week on
whether to put it on the agenda
to to agendaize
to agendaize a vote on whether to put it
on the agenda.
Right. That's what I'm trying to say,
which I think you just did, but
yes.
Okay.
That's the request.
And I don't think it's a motion. I think
it's I make that request and it
goes on the agenda next Monday to vote
on.
So next week there will be an agenda
item that says consideration of a
request by council member Madison to
agendaize the sister city relationship
with Wanowatau Mexico. And that would be
an item on the agenda for a a vote. And
if if I have to do that, mayor, I'm
happy to include the things that you
articulated also that we should receive
feedback from the committee about their
efforts. And broadly speaking,
from which committee?
The sister city.
Yeah.
But but I I I do think we should ask for
um their input and follow the the
process.
Of course.
Yeah.
That that's fine. And so it's so I think
you've reached the end of the time for
it not being on the agenda to say we'd
like it discussed at a future meeting.
Mr. Massuda,
mayor, I I'm sure you're aware that the
sister cities uh group has split.
They they have a split there and uh that
makes it so unfortunate. So
uh I'm
and I mean I I know of it and I hear
about it. So, I'm kind of wondering uh
if if what we would do going forward,
you know, it's um
this may if not handled properly may
cause more of a split on the sister city
committee is my concern. So, so
um with that um
let's
anything else on that?
Where's Nina when we need her?
I know. I know.
So in that spirit, Mr. Madison, um let's
ask everyone to um stand
uh and um adjourn in
um the memory of three great
contributors to Pasadena. Uh and you
know I I always say that our city is
great not necessarily because of
buildings or you know um or architecture
but our city is great because of the
people. Um and you know they're these
are we're recognizing people who have
contributed greatly to our city uh to
make us who we are. And so I'd ask that
we stand and adjourn in memory of
Reverend Joan Taylor and Larry Edson uh
and uh Nina R. Chossky
and Mayor uh also we agree to um
to also adjourn in memory uh to the
civilians who've lost their lives uh in
Israel and Palestine.
Yes. Um and so
um if we'll observe a moment of silence.