[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:01] Good evening, everyone. We'll get started. This is the time and place set for the special meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals of the City of Pasadena. My name is Lambert Geasinger, and I will be the chairperson for this hearing. At this time, the recording secretary will do the roll call.
[0:18] Commissioner Higgin-Botham. Here. Commissioner Hernandez. Here. Commissioner Delgado. Present. Commissioner Albrecht. Present. And Chair Geasinger. Present. We have Acora. Thank you. At this time, I would like to go over the procedure.
[0:35] First, the staff will present the case and recommendation and then the appellant and the applicant present their case to the board.
[0:42] This is followed by speakers in favor and against and our procedure is typically to limit speaking to the speaking time to 15 minutes for the appellant and the applicant with three minutes each for those persons speaking in favor and in opposition and a five minute rebuttal period for the appellant.
[1:01] After the testimony, the Board of Zoning Appeals will discuss the merits of the case and make a decision.
[1:06] The decision of the Board of Zoning Appeals is appealable to the City Council and must be filed within 10 days of the decision.
[1:13] And please note that any written documents submitted at this hearing will need to be summarized verbally for the Board to consider such items tonight.
[1:21] night. And with that, our first item on tonight's agenda is approval of the June 5th,
[1:29] 2025 minutes. Has everyone had a chance to look at those? Juliana, you have a comment?
[1:36] No, I'll move to approve. Okay. I'll second.
[1:39] Moved and seconded. Any in opposition? No. None heard. Those minutes are approved.
[1:48] Now we
[1:49] I can turn to our main action item of tonight,
[1:53] master conditional use permit number 7318202 North Euclid Avenue.
[2:00] And these are the appeals of a minor conditional use permit,
[2:03] which was approved by the hearing officer of the June 18th,
[2:06] 2025 public hearing.
[2:08] And the applicant proposes to establish a safe parking use
[2:11] for up to 25 vehicles in conjunction with a religious facility
[2:15] all Saints Church.
[2:16] and the subject site is within the public and semi-public zone district.
[2:22] With that, we can proceed with the staff report.
[2:27] Thank you.
[2:29] Good evening, Honourable Chair and Commissioners.
[2:32] My name is Alice Walker and I'm the staff planner for this item, and I will be providing an overview
[2:37] of the process thus far, the project and the staff recommendation.
[2:42] The project before you is the appeals of minor conditional use permit number 7 318 to allow a safe parking use for up to 25 vehicles in
[2:52] conjunction with the religious facility, which is all Saints Church. The entitlement is for a minor conditional use permit to allow the safe parking use, which is defined by the zoning code as a land use that is a safe parking or
[3:10] operator on property outside of the public right of way,
[3:13] and managed by a social service provider
[3:16] that provides individuals and families with vehicles
[3:20] a safe place to park overnight,
[3:22] and services to facilitate a transition to permanent housing.
[3:28] This property where the use is proposed
[3:31] is located in the public and semi-public zoning district.
[3:35] Safe parking may be allowed in conjunction
[3:38] with the religious assembly use,
[3:39] subject to the approval of a minor conditional use permit or MCUP within the PSZone
[3:45] District and a subject to specific land use requirements of the Zoning Code.
[3:52] This project was submitted in March 2025 and was approved by the Hearing Officer on June
[3:58] 18th of this year.
[4:00] And the project is before you tonight as we've received three appeal applications in disagreement
[4:05] with the Hearing Officer's decision.
[4:07] Prior to the June 18th meeting earlier this year, staff received 22 comments in support
[4:15] of the project, 10 comments in opposition, and one comment requesting a continuance, all
[4:22] of which were forwarded to the hearing officer and posted on the city's website.
[4:27] The hearing officer at the meeting received a presentation of the staff report in which
[4:32] staff recommended approval of the minor conditional use permit.
[4:36] After staff's presentation, the applicant team provided a presentation in favor of
[4:40] the project, and following their presentation, 13 public comments were heard, five in support,
[4:47] and eight in opposition.
[4:49] After hearing the presentations and public testimony, the hearing officer closed the public hearing,
[4:55] Recommended modifications to staff's recommended conditions of approval.
[5:00] Local, including a requirement to provide indoor restroom facilities and approve the case. This
[5:07] hearing before you tonight is a denovo hearing where the board may uphold the decision of
[5:12] the hearing officer or make an entirely different decision. To provide context on the project
[5:20] site that you will be reviewing this evening, the slide before you shows a vicinity map for
[5:26] the Safe Parking Program proposed at 202 North Euclid Avenue.
[5:31] On this slide, this vicinity map identifies that the existing religious site is bound
[5:37] by Walnut Street to the north, Euclid Avenue to the east, Union Street to the south,
[5:44] and commercial uses to the west.
[5:46] The All Saints Church site consists of three continuous parcels under one single ownership.
[5:53] The northern two parcels are developed with surface parking and a small vacant building
[5:58] in the northwest corner.
[6:01] And the southern parcel is developed with religious facility buildings and a courtyard.
[6:06] The area highlighted in red, the northernmost parcel of the All Saints Church site, is identified
[6:12] on the site plan in the next line.
[6:18] This is the enlarged aerial map, which shows the proposed safe parking area.
[6:22] with the 25 proposed vehicle parking spaces numbered here.
[6:28] The site plan also shows the proposed location
[6:31] of the portable restroom facility and hand wash station available
[6:35] for the safe parking participants in light blue.
[6:41] The proposed safe parking, called Destination Hope Pasadena
[6:45] Program, would be a collaboration between all Saints Church
[6:48] and Shower of Hope, which is a nonprofit organization.
[6:51] The program is intended to provide services and a designated overnight parking area for up to 25 vehicles of unhoused individuals.
[7:02] As proposed, vehicles registered in the program would park within this existing surface parking lot.
[7:08] On this slide, images are provided as the viewer was looking at the area from Euclid Avenue in the top image,
[7:16] which is where access to the site would be provided for the safe parkers and also an
[7:22] image is provided looking south as though you were standing on Walnut Street.
[7:30] I will provide a brief overview of the proposed operations on this slide.
[7:36] The parking area would be available to participants from 7 p.m. and 7 a.m. daily.
[7:41] There would be an on-site portable restroom and hand-rushing station as we saw on the last slide.
[7:50] And a maximum of 25 people would be allowed on-site each night.
[7:55] For example, if two participants would be in one car and all other cars would be occupied by only one person,
[8:04] then 24 cars would be allowed on-site.
[8:06] and not all 25 spaces that could be used would be occupied.
[8:11] So to summarize, a maximum of 25 individuals would be allowed
[8:17] as part of the program at any one time.
[8:20] In order to participate in the program, participants must agree to the safe parking rules and guidelines.
[8:26] Under this agreement, individuals commit to not have weapons, alcohol or drugs on site.
[8:32] shall not litter, may not cook, must keep their area tidy, may not play loud music,
[8:38] must keep all pets leashed outside their vehicles, and must follow other requirements consistent with the zoning code.
[8:46] Only registered participants and their vehicles would be allowed to park on-site during the program hours,
[8:52] and would not be allowed to have guests.
[8:55] Should a participant violate the program agreement, they may be removed from the program.
[9:00] One state-certified security guard would be required to actively monitor the site to ensure that valid
[9:07] participant parking passes are visible at all times in the vehicles and that there are no
[9:13] issues throughout the evening. In addition, a representative of the program must be available
[9:19] during all hours of operation to receive phone calls if any issues arise. The contact information
[9:26] would be visible from the public right away at the All Saints Church office and
[9:31] provided to the Zoning Administrator.
[9:34] Shower of hope would manage and operate intake, case management, and provide
[9:39] resources to participants as they seek employment and or permanent housing.
[9:47] On June 30, staff received three appeal requests, two from nearby property
[9:54] ownership groups, and one from the applicant.
[9:57] The entirety of the appeal application,
[10:00] Questions with both staff and hearing officer responses were included within the staff report and related attachments. For the purpose of this presentation, only five general appeal points will be addressed. From the first two appellants, we generally have the first three appeal points listed on the side that will be discussed in the following slides. The first, that the zoning code does not allow an MCUP for the use because the location is a
[10:29] commercial parking lot and not used for religious worship.
[10:33] The second, the zoning code does not allow the proposed use, which would be detrimental
[10:38] to the health, safety, and general welfare of neighborhood residents and workers.
[10:43] And the third, the use is ineligible for a class one existing facility's categorical
[10:49] exemption under CEQA.
[10:51] Apellant II raised the fourth point.
[10:55] ARE Pasadena number five LLC, learned of the project one day before the hearing and submitted
[11:01] a letter of continuance to provide additional time to understand the project and meet
[11:06] with the applicant in the city, the hearing officer did not grant the continuance.
[11:11] And the fifth appeal point we'll discuss tonight is from the applicant or appellant three,
[11:18] which is the requirement to use the indoor restrooms creates an undue financial burden, whereas
[11:24] as the current arrangement of providing a porta potty
[11:26] has proven successful for a similar use in the past.
[11:33] In the following slides, the summarized appeal points
[11:36] will be addressed with staff's response
[11:40] and we'll go over again those appeal points at the top.
[11:44] So the first again, the zoning code does not allow
[11:47] an MCUP for the use because the location
[11:50] is a commercial parking lot and not used
[11:53] for religious worship.
[11:55] Staff responses summarized in the italics, and I'll summarize as well.
[12:01] The All Saints Church site consists of three contiguous parcels under single ownership.
[12:08] The northern two parcels are developed with surface parking, and the southern parcel
[12:12] is developed with a religious facility building and the courtyard.
[12:16] The zoning code provides a glossary which defines site as a lot or group of contiguous lots.
[12:25] not divided by any alley, street, or other right of wave, or city limit that is proposed
[12:32] for development in accord with the provisions of this zoning code, and is in a single
[12:38] ownership or has multiple owners, all of whom join in an application for development.
[12:45] The parking lot provides parking for the religious facility in addition to serving as paid parking
[12:51] for the courthouse.
[12:51] The parking lot is in use in the day and evening by the religious facility.
[12:58] In addition to the weekday parking activity, this religious facility uses the parking
[13:04] spaces in the lot during evening activities, as well as on the weekends and during special
[13:09] events.
[13:13] The second appeal point, the zoning code does not allow the proposed use which would be detrimental
[13:19] to the health, safety, and general welfare of neighborhood residents and workers.
[13:24] Staff's response is as follows.
[13:27] The recommended conditions of approval require oversight of the program by an on-site state-certified security guard,
[13:35] and also limits outdoor lighting, excuse me, and also provides requirements for outdoor lighting,
[13:42] and also limits outdoor activities.
[13:45] The project was reviewed by our Pasadena Police Department and based on existing call for service records and the proposed operations,
[13:56] the Pasadena Police Department has expressed no concerns with the proposed use.
[14:02] Collectively, with the conditions of approval for recommended, these measures provide adequate safeguards to address neighborhood safety concerns.
[14:12] Such conditions that are included in the recommended conditions of approval include condition
[14:17] 9, which limits where activities associated with the safe parking use may occur.
[14:22] Condition 11, which requires a representative of the program that must be available to take
[14:28] calls at all times and respond in a timely manner.
[14:32] Condition number 14, that requires that only participants of the program shall be allowed
[14:37] on-site and must validate that they are participants by having their parking
[14:42] passes displayed at all times. Condition number 19 that requires that no
[14:47] personal items shall be located outside their vehicles, no music shall be
[14:52] audible, they shall have no food preparation that could be a disturbance, no
[14:57] camping tarps or no tents.
[15:00] Actors attached to the vehicles, and condition number 21 related to the state certified security
[15:06] guard.
[15:11] The next appeal point is that the proposed use is ineligible for a class one existing
[15:17] facilities, categorical exemption under CEQA. Seeker requires that the proposed project
[15:25] be compared to the existing conditions. The existing conditions are then considered the
[15:31] environmental baseline and are used to assess the environmental impacts of a project.
[15:36] In the case of Olsen's Church, religious services, community serving activities, surface parking,
[15:44] services for people experiencing homelessness, and other activities of the sort have occurred
[15:50] at the site for many years.
[15:53] A class one categorical exemption includes the operation or permitting of existing structures
[15:58] where there is negligible or no expansion of use.
[16:02] The proposed use would not result in any alteration
[16:05] of the existing building or project site.
[16:09] The applicant has provided a list of weekly events
[16:12] in which the parking lot is used
[16:13] by religious facility volunteers, parishioners or staff.
[16:17] These include youth night and adult choir practices
[16:20] which occur on Wednesday and Thursday nights respectively
[16:23] each week until 10 p.m.
[16:27] Additionally, it should be noted that the number of parking spaces within the existing parking
[16:32] law area is not increasing.
[16:35] The religious facility presently also operates the Safe Haven temporary homeless shelter on
[16:42] the property nightly, which is an operation similar to the Safe Parking use, and I will discuss
[16:48] a little bit, a little later in this presentation.
[16:50] A
[16:54] PO point number four is related to the issue that appellant number two brought up, that
[17:01] appellant two learned of the project one day before the hearing and submitted a letter
[17:05] of continuance to provide additional time to understand the project, meet with the applicant
[17:10] and the city, and that the hearing officer did not grant this continuance.
[17:15] Staff's response is that owners of the properties within a 300 foot radius were mailed to public
[17:21] notice two weeks before the meeting date as required by the zoning code and notice boards
[17:26] were established at the site also as required by the zoning code.
[17:32] The hearing officer may use their discretion to grant a requested continuance and in this
[17:38] case he chose not to grant the continuance.
[17:43] In response to the third appeal, the requirement to, the appeal point, what, or the fifth
[17:52] appeal point was that the requirement to use the indoor restrooms creates an undue financial
[17:59] burden, whereas the current arrangement of providing a porta-body has proven successful
[18:04] for similar use in the past.
[18:08] The response to this appeal from staff is that the hearing officer clarifying his addendum
[18:13] But the intent of the interior restroom access is to ensure that restroom facilities will only be accessible to safe parking participants and not to the general public during program hours.
[18:26] The hearing officer confirmed that secured restroom facilities such as a locked portable restroom within the safe parking area with an access key or code would be adequate to meet the intent of this approved condition.
[18:39] To address the hearing officer's clarification, staff has provided a recommended condition
[18:46] of approval to be discussed in the next two slides.
[18:52] As referred in a response to the Class 1 Secret Categorical Exemption Appeal Plaint, there
[18:58] is an existing approved temporary homeless shelter use at the All Saints site that was approved
[19:04] under Conditional Use Permit 6898 in September 2021.
[19:09] one. The approved site plan is identified on this slide.
[19:14] Presently, the homeless shelter participants sleep overnight in the area near
[19:18] Vegas Hall identified in red. To access the restroom facilities, the participants
[19:24] follow the red dotted path and walk along the sidewalk at Euclid Avenue to the
[19:30] portable restroom within the parking lot to the south of the proposed safe parking
[19:35] area. As adopted by the Hearing Officer for the Safe Parking Program, Condition 12 identified
[19:42] at the bottom of this slide required that the Safe Parking participants have access
[19:49] to the indoor restroom facilities. The path of travel to the restrooms from the Safe Parking
[19:56] area. It's identified with the light blue dot.
[20:00] I would also need to travel along the sidewalk of Euclid Avenue and through the homeless
[20:06] shelter approved sleeping area. As such, the path of travel could become a disruption
[20:11] to the homeless sheltered user's sleep.
[20:18] With additional knowledge of the hearing
[20:20] officers' intention for the Safe Parking Program to have secured restroom facilities,
[20:26] the potential disruption to the homeless temporary homeless shelter's participants, and the path
[20:32] of travel along the sidewalk. Staff recommends a revision to condition number 12 from the
[20:38] safe parking condition of approval. This recommendation is to change the language to
[20:45] as follows. Water, trash, and restroom facilities shall be provided, maintained, and accessible
[20:52] to clients during safe parking facility hours. The portable restroom facility shall be accessible
[20:58] to the Safe Parking Program participants only.
[21:02] IE locked and equipped with a key code mechanism.
[21:07] Participants from the Safe Haven temporary homeless shelter
[21:10] shall utilize a restroom inside the church facilities.
[21:15] An updated site plan showing the relocated portable restroom
[21:19] from the South Parking Law to the Safe Parking Program Law
[21:23] and the proposed indoor restroom locations
[21:27] for the Safe Haven temporary homeless shelter
[21:30] is shown before you on this slide.
[21:36] Staff concludes that as proposed,
[21:39] the use wouldn't meet the specific land use requirements
[21:42] of the zoning code for safe parking uses
[21:44] and the objectives of the general plan
[21:46] to provide services supporting people
[21:49] who are experiencing homelessness
[21:51] and meet the diverse needs of passing your residents.
[21:55] In addition, conditions of approval are recommended
[21:58] to ensure on-site monitoring compliance with noise regulations and then a representative
[22:04] is available to assist concerns of the community.
[22:09] In conclusion, staff recommends that the Board of Zoning Appeals adopt the environmental
[22:13] determination and the specific findings in attachment A to approve the minor conditional
[22:20] use permit with the conditions in attachment B. I would like to note that prior to this hearing,
[22:25] three comments were submitted which were all emailed to the Board of Zoning Appeals and posted on the website.
[22:33] This concludes staff's presentation and both myself and the Zoning Administrator are available for questions.
[22:40] Thank you very much. Are there questions clarifying questions from Board members?
[22:46] I have a kind of a long list of questions, I'm not sure if it should be for staff or
[22:52] the operator.
[22:54] No, no.
[22:54] Right now we want to do any clarifying questions that staff can answer.
[22:59] Then we're going to hear from the two appellans and you could ask questions then if there's
[23:04] something in these two clarifications.
[23:05] No.
[23:06] I think I'll ask you the staff.
[23:07] Okay.
[23:08] I'll ask you that.
[23:08] And we'll just see if it's not correct and forgive me.
[23:12] I was concerned about the age of the participants so they can have infants, is that correct, and very young children?
[23:20] And then what happens if infants make noise all night and disrupt the other people that are asleep?
[23:26] How does that work?
[23:30] I have a question to the operators in terms of the age range for the participants.
[23:36] Do we have the operator here?
[23:38] Yes, they're the applicant.
[23:40] Are they going to do a presentation?
[23:42] Okay, so maybe I'll just hold off on all of these, because I've got about 10 questions
[23:47] and they seem to be operational.
[23:49] Okay, thank you.
[23:53] Any other clarifying questions of staff?
[23:56] You're looking or you're good.
[23:57] I'm looking.
[23:58] I'm doing the same thing as Commissioner Doug Gatto, because they're mixed into questions
[24:03] for staff or mostly the operator.
[24:06] But do you have maybe one question I guess, and again maybe it's a code, because when you
[24:11] talk about a vehicle, are we talking just about a car?
[24:13] Are we talking about a van or both?
[24:17] The zoning code for the safe parking use does not limit just to vehicles.
[24:25] It does allow recreational vehicles as well.
[24:29] We can also ask the operator if the participants or the interested participants are just in vehicles or also in RVs.
[24:39] I
[24:42] guess a condition question then regarding the 48 hours of notice that seems to me
[24:52] a long time to get back to answering a question for somebody if that could be reduced.
[24:58] Yes, we can definitely answer.
[25:04] We can definitely lower the timeline, but it's as soon as possible. I believe that's how the condition leads up to 48 hours. But we can definitely lower. Thank you.
[25:20] Michael, will we be able to ask questions of staff? We've heard the applicant presentations. Absolutely. Okay. Okay. Okay.
[25:33] If there are no more clarifying questions of staff,
[25:36] staff will move to appellant number one,
[25:43] Silvio Nargione, representing the Maryland
[25:47] homeowners association.
[25:48] So when do you have the applicant?
[25:50] When is the applicant?
[25:52] You have 15 minutes to present Silvio.
[25:56] Thank you. Good evening and thank you for the opportunity to address the board.
[26:01] Let me see if I understand correctly the task that the board must perform
[26:05] in deciding whether to approve the minor conditional use permit.
[26:11] It must make at least two findings, one that the proposed use of the property in question
[26:18] is in conformity with the law governing the zoning regulations applicable to the site.
[26:25] And the second is that there is an actual finding by this board that granting the conditional
[26:32] use permit will be consistent with the health welfare and safety of the surrounding neighborhood.
[26:38] Those are the two things that this board must find in order to uphold the granting of
[26:45] the conditional use permit by the hearing officer.
[26:50] Let me address each of those in turn.
[26:53] The first issue is whether or not this is a permitted use with the zoning that is presently
[27:01] in place for the site in question.
[27:05] As you heard during the course of the staff presentation,
[27:09] there were several different terms applied
[27:11] to this proposed use.
[27:15] One was religious facility.
[27:17] Another one was religious site.
[27:19] But then we saw from the staff presentation
[27:23] that the term site is limited to contiguous parcels
[27:28] which are proposed for development.
[27:32] As far as I understand, the minor conditional use permit
[27:35] submitted by the applicant does not propose
[27:38] a development on these lots.
[27:41] And therefore, the definition of sight
[27:44] as provided in the staff report does not apply.
[27:49] Instead, what applies is the definition of religious facility.
[27:54] And a religious facility is a location
[27:57] where religious worship services and other activities are undertaken by a religious
[28:04] nature are undertaken by the religious institution. At present from the description in the staff
[28:12] report, the only activity of a religious nature that occurs on any of these properties owned by
[28:19] all saints is on the southernmost parcel. That's where the sanctuary and the other related buildings
[28:27] where these activities occur.
[28:29] I would suggest you that parking a car is not a religious activity and therefore it doesn't
[28:35] qualify the parking lot for inclusion in a religious facility per se.
[28:43] And more importantly, the overwhelming use of this facility or the use of the northern
[28:49] most parcel is for a commercial parking lot.
[28:53] So, this is not a use that is permitted under the zoning code for a religious facility
[29:00] because the lot in question is not part of a religious facility.
[29:06] I live at the Maryland and I know from walking by this property at all hours of the day,
[29:13] that it is occasionally used for parking as the staff report indicates.
[29:17] Wednesday and Thursday night they have fire practice, that's fine.
[29:21] But this proposed program would drastically increase the amount of usage of this property
[29:28] for something that is not a religious activity.
[29:32] This is a different program of entirely different nature.
[29:37] I don't think that the proposed use of a commercial parking lot for this safe parking program is
[29:46] consistent with the law and you the board must find that it is in fact consistent with the applicable zoning regulations and the definition of a site as proposed by the staff
[30:00] Does not cure the problem that this is commercial property on which all saints pays taxes as a commercial property, not as a religious facility. If it was a religious facility, they would be exempt from the ad valorem taxes, but they don't. They pay the taxes based upon its zoning as a commercial property. So I think that the proposed use of this property is not consistent with
[30:29] the law that governs its zoning as indicated by the zoning classification in which the property
[30:37] is assigned. That is, it is commercial property. The second obligation and finding that
[30:46] this board must make is that the operation of the safe parking program will be consistent
[30:55] them with the health, welfare, and safety of the surrounding community.
[31:01] And there's two parts to that.
[31:03] One is, will the activity itself affect the health, welfare, and safety of the surrounding
[31:11] community?
[31:12] What we're told is going to happen is that we're going to have 25 cars every night lining up
[31:19] along Euclid or someplace in the neighborhood waiting to get into the property at 7 p.m.
[31:27] It's unlikely to think that they're all just going to show up exactly at 7 p.m. So
[31:32] we're going to have a number of people who may be coming from places far away from the
[31:38] location of the safe parking program who are in the neighborhood awaiting the entry time
[31:44] of 7 p.m. Secondly, what we have is a situation where we have to inquire into the credibility
[31:53] and capacity of the applicant to safely operate the program that they propose. And in
[32:00] that regard, I think the board must find that this applicant does not have a history that
[32:09] supports a finding that they have the capacity, the capability and the credibility to operate
[32:16] this program. So let me start with the credibility issue. We've heard tonight from the staff
[32:23] that the Safe Haven program has been operating at the religious facility that is on the actual
[32:31] property designated as a religious site for a number of years.
[32:36] What we do have in the record is that more than in that period of time, more than 400 times, the police has been called to that location,
[32:49] to on a variety of things that are all public disturbances or sometimes even more aggravated than that.
[32:56] This suggests that in fact the operation of the Safe Haven program has not been of a sort
[33:04] that would recommend the applicant as a competent operator of any kind of program.
[33:11] Why have there been so many calls?
[33:14] I think the answer is simply this.
[33:16] They have ignored one of the express conditions of that use permit which is to have an
[33:23] And on-site security officer present at the location every night at the hearing before
[33:33] the hearing officer, the applicants representative admitted that they do not have such security
[33:41] persons on site all the time.
[33:44] And, in fact, there has been code enforcement called into examine the security operations
[33:55] of the Safe Haven program and each time found that they were in violation because there
[34:01] was no security officer present overnight as promised and as required by the conditions
[34:09] and the other conditional use permit granted to all states.
[34:12] So, I think there is a real question of whether or not we have an entity that is actually
[34:20] willing to comply with its stated conditions of an existing permit, and if you have someone
[34:27] out of compliance with its present permit, why would you grant another one?
[34:32] You cannot find based on the record before this board that the All Saints Church is a competent
[34:42] and compliant operator of its existing program and much less should be allowed to expand
[34:49] the scope of programs that they operate.
[34:53] So I think there's, first of all, a lack of showing in the record that...
[35:00] They have the ability to actually manage and properly operate a program of the sort they're proposing. The second has to do with whether or not this is a program that will in fact be consistent with the health, welfare and safety of the environment, the surrounding community. Now, we know that we're literally just a block away from this proposed location for the safe parking program.
[35:29] And this is an area of the city, it's the central area of the city of Pasadena, containing
[35:37] many historic buildings.
[35:39] And what we're told is we're proposing, they're proposing to bring in a program that
[35:46] will bring in people from all over to the, basically a migrant community on an overnight basis,
[35:56] 365 days a year.
[35:58] I don't think that's an actual, that's a use that's consistent with the surrounding
[36:03] community.
[36:05] There are residences in addition to the Maryland.
[36:07] There's no residences on the north side of Walnut.
[36:11] There's a large number of people who will be negatively affected by the operation of
[36:17] this program.
[36:18] I think that there is a good reason, a sufficient reason for this board to conclude that
[36:26] it is inconsistent with the nature of the surrounding community to grant this application.
[36:33] And finally, I would say this, that we have a proposal that is put forward by people
[36:42] who have no skin in the game.
[36:47] None of the people who are actively supporting this proposal live in the very neighborhood
[36:54] but that will be effective.
[36:56] It's like saying, we would like this problem to be solved
[36:59] by these people over here while we live over here.
[37:03] I think that kind of proposal does not mirror
[37:07] this board's approval.
[37:09] And for those reasons, I suggest that the board
[37:12] overturn the hearing officer's decision
[37:14] and deny the application for the conditional use permit.
[37:20] Thank you.
[37:23] Thank you.
[37:27] We'll hear from the second appellant who is ARE Pasadena No. 5 LLC.
[37:37] Do we have a ref?
[37:38] Yes.
[37:39] From them.
[37:39] There you are.
[37:40] Thank you.
[37:41] Good evening, Chair Keesinger and members of the board.
[37:44] My name is Jennifer Erickson.
[37:46] On behalf of Alexander of Real Estate.
[37:49] Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you this evening.
[37:52] We care very much about this city and believe the best results are achieved when folks sit down and work together in that spirit are asking straightforward to request a 45 day extension of the board's decision to allow the parties to meet and work this out.
[38:07] We believe the parties need time to sit down and work on the conditions of approval so that they can address legitimate concerns that have been raised. Thank you.
[38:15] Thank you. Next we'll hear from the applicant, Erica Tamplin, Vallsaints.
[38:29] Good
[38:30] evening. Thank you for having us here. My name is Erica Tamplin, I'm a
[38:33] parishioner and a member of the Vestry at All Saints Church.
[38:39] I am the person
[38:40] who manages the Safe Haven program for All Saints among other people who
[38:45] participate as well. And also we work with the port team and the hope team and people
[38:50] from union station. We also work with the Howdy County Health Department to provide
[38:56] other services as well. We have to this date house gotten 60 people into permanent
[39:05] supportive housing and we're very proud of that. We believe that this is part of our responsibility
[39:12] community. And so when Bill Long came to us, we used to be the housing director and asked
[39:21] us if we'd be willing to provide a safe parking program in that particular part of our
[39:27] contiguous parking lot, we said, sure, let's give it a shot. Let's see if we can do that.
[39:34] And we searched with and found an operator that operates these programs. And that's the
[39:42] showers of hope with whom we work on Mondays to provide showers to individuals and people
[39:47] from the housing department and some of the clergy and I went and looked at the operations
[39:54] and found that they operated very well.
[40:00] He was granted with conditions and we do have an objection to condition number 12. The reason that is that we don't, in order for us to provide indoor restroom access to the individuals, we would have to provide security or staff to escort them through and turn off the alarms, unlock them, wait for them to use the facility, then lock it and escort them back to the vehicle. And it's just
[40:29] just a significant amount of money that's a financial hardship for the church.
[40:33] That's why we've filed this.
[40:35] What I would like to do now is introduce to you Mel Tilla Katnery, who operates the
[40:40] showers of hope and the Safe Parking Program, and he'll explain to you operational issues
[40:47] and answer any of your questions.
[40:48] Thank you.
[40:50] No?
[40:57] Commissioner Geissinger and all other commissioners, I track Geissing and all other commissioners.
[41:01] and members of all teams, members who are here.
[41:07] My name is Mel Telekaratna
[41:08] and we will be operating the Safe Parking Program
[41:11] at All Saints Episcopal.
[41:14] Wanna to mention a couple of things
[41:17] when talking about this program.
[41:20] First off, we operate three Safe Parking Programs
[41:23] currently or within the city of LA.
[41:26] Two are traditional, just like this overnight parking programs.
[41:29] the 3rd is the first RE program of Safe Parking Program for RVs in Southern California.
[41:37] We've been operating our RE program, Safe Parking Program since 2019,
[41:43] and not just within us, but when you look at the operation of all Safe Parking Programs
[41:49] within the city and Southern California, they're considered one of the most effective programs.
[41:55] And the reason for that is, even within the unhoused population, there are certain levels.
[42:04] We all see the folks on the street.
[42:06] We all see the folks coming out of a tent.
[42:08] We all understand the vulnerability of those folks.
[42:11] We serve those folks without, through our showers.
[42:16] But the folks that this program and all safe parking programs are built to help our folks
[42:24] who have a much higher level of stability.
[42:28] These are folks who, I would say above 40% who are working at least part time, these are
[42:37] folks who might be going through some sort of illness.
[42:41] We've had multiple people who are discharged from hospitals, they were evicted from their
[42:45] homes while they were hospitalized and they have no place to stay unless they become stable.
[42:51] and then the majority of the participants in our programs and all our, say, all
[42:58] safe parking programs are women because they actually share the same concerns
[43:04] as the opposition to this conditional permit. One of the first things that I
[43:10] heard from one of our first participants when I asked, the question that most of
[43:15] you would have, right, you have all of Pasadena, why would you choose to
[43:20] stay in this parking lot and this participant whose name was neighbor said that
[43:25] it wasn't the natural the fact that they've been attacked. They said that in
[43:30] the morning like you know when the sun rises people would literally knock on her
[43:35] window to get her attention. Not to say anything just while they're on their way
[43:41] wherever they would knock on the window and wake her up because she was a female
[43:45] sleeping in a car. That is the majority of the participants who come into safe
[43:50] parking. That's why it's called safe parking. The people who come into these
[43:55] programs want safety. If they wanted to bother the community, lasting the thing
[44:01] they would want is to come into a program that has security that is monitored,
[44:06] that will have cameras and do something on camera that is going to affect their
[44:10] neighbors. So I wanted to define, first of all, what safe parking is and why we have it.
[44:16] Second, with this program, it is not a program where people can come in and out, people
[44:22] can do what they want. There are strict rules and requirements. You saw some of those up
[44:27] there, but mainly the main requirement of this program is you don't do anything that affects
[44:34] your neighbors. And when I mean that, I'm not just talking about the neighbors in the
[44:39] cars next door but including everybody in the immediate community because it's not
[44:45] just one people this will be up to to four up to 25 participants and there's no
[44:50] point in calling it a safe parking program if one participant ruins it for
[44:55] everyone else. We are strict in our programming we
[45:00] We will have multiple mediations with participants who are not willing to follow the rules. If it
[45:07] is a strict violation of our rules where they do affect either other participants or any
[45:12] of the neighbors around this program, we will immediately exit them from the program.
[45:18] When it comes to who we choose to the program, we do take extensive information from every
[45:27] person who applies, which means, again, going back to the point of who would want to apply
[45:32] to a program like this and cost trouble, because we do have the information, and if they
[45:36] do something that aren't supposed to, that's immediately notified to the authorities.
[45:41] So all participants have to develop all the information, including the vehicle information,
[45:47] they're given a permit that has to be displayed while they're in the program.
[45:52] and if the permit is renewed monthly to make sure that all the folks who are participants in the program are in good standing with the program.
[46:05] And going back to one of the conditional statutes that was presented here, there would be a security person on site throughout the whole duration of the program.
[46:15] And the number that was in question to be listed, the number is would route directly to a 24-hour security dispatch through the security company we use.
[46:26] And if there's ever any issues overnight that need immediate attention, the number would be routed directly to myself as the executive director of the program.
[46:35] because I want to make sure any issues that are arising within the parking program are addressed
[46:42] immediately and in a way that doesn't affect anyone and make sure any problems are resolved.
[46:49] As far as
[46:55] the other concerns that I saw brought up within the last hearing,
[47:00] the mobile bathroom, the part of John would be locked during the daytime. At night time when it is
[47:07] open, it would only be available for the participants in the program.
[47:13] And then the participants can't leave their vehicle and walk away.
[47:18] So I understand the concerns from neighbors or people showing up.
[47:22] But participants cannot leave their vehicle.
[47:25] If they're in the program, they have to stay within their vehicle.
[47:28] So in summary, what I want to say is basically, this is a strict program.
[47:36] We, we really hold our standards to our participants because if they want to be in the program,
[47:42] if they want to make use of our facilities, one, they have to make sure they are not affecting
[47:48] their neighbors in a negative way, two, they're working towards getting more stable and what we
[47:55] mean by that is we help people with employment and even more we help people getting to stable housing.
[48:01] Our goal is not to keep them in vehicles. Our goal is to get that vulnerable person where they'd be a female,
[48:08] where they'd be a couple, where they'd be a male into a better, better living situation than living in a car.
[48:16] Because we understand living in a car is not something that a person should do for more than a short period of time.
[48:22] So thank you for listening to my presentation. I'm open to any questions you have.
[48:26] My question.
[48:29] Yes.
[48:29] Go ahead.
[48:30] Okay.
[48:31] May I call you, Mel?
[48:33] You can try my last name.
[48:34] Okay.
[48:35] I'll show you.
[48:36] You can call Mel.
[48:37] Thank you.
[48:38] And thank you for being here and for your presentation.
[48:42] I do have a number of questions that are operational.
[48:45] I was curious whether the vehicles that are in the program, are they registered in Pasadena
[48:50] or can anybody from anywhere be a participant in the program?
[48:55] We don't have a restriction for where those vehicles are registered, no.
[48:59] Okay. And then what about the age of the participants? Can you have infants? And what happens if there is a mother with a child and that child is ill or at night they're making noise, how do you handle something like that?
[49:13] That's a really good question, Commissioner. And that's the value of these programs. Sometimes we do get parents coming with very young children.
[49:21] So, if it's in the point of an infant, for those situations there are motel vouchers,
[49:28] there are interim shelters available.
[49:30] So, we would work with the neighboring specifically union station homeless services
[49:35] to other programs to make sure that if it's an infant, that they're immediately transitioned
[49:42] into, like I said, a motel program or a shelter.
[49:46] Now, when it comes to infants, the reality, especially even here in Pasadena during when
[49:53] a time it gets really cold, they shouldn't be in a vehicle, so we would not love that.
[49:59] It would be...
[50:00] Depend if it is an infant, we would not allow that. And again, that's a value of these programs
[50:06] is rather than a person just trying to hide their cars somewhere away and keep an infant
[50:10] and the worst thing happened. They would come to us, we would send them over to a more stable
[50:16] environment. And if we do see that the parents are not being responsible, we would immediately alert
[50:24] the parties and DCFS to take the next step from there.
[50:28] Okay, thank you.
[50:29] Also, let me see, how many participants can be sheltered in one vehicle?
[50:37] Since you're allowing RVs and campers, is there a maximum number?
[50:42] So that's a good question. We, in the initial conditional permit,
[50:46] there was language that there was not going to be any RVs.
[50:50] So my understanding is that RVs would not be allowed in this program.
[50:55] Does it say that in the, is there a condition? Do we want to condition that?
[51:00] That RVs are not included or campers are not included?
[51:04] At this time, there's no conditions, but we can add that.
[51:07] Okay, all right, so that's the understanding.
[51:10] Also, I know that on Wednesday and Thursday evenings, the church does have activities
[51:15] up until 10 or 11 o'clock at night.
[51:17] and there's a lot of overflow of parking and I have been there on those evenings where they're parked in the court where the court normally parks and the whole thing.
[51:28] So how are you going to block off that the sheltered parking area and make sure that none of the parishioners or people who are doing the activities are going into that lot?
[51:39] How does that work exactly?
[51:41] That's a good question. So I do want to, I do really want to, you know, appreciate
[51:47] Pasitim and Erica and everyone else from all saints. The reason we were selected and
[51:52] the reason we want to work with all saints is because they really care about the program
[51:56] and what we've discussed is reserving spaces where the security would be there to make sure
[52:02] there's adequate parking for the participants as well as making sure there's adequate parking
[52:08] for the parishioners. It's also something we communicate to our participants that there
[52:13] will be events going on specifically when it's scheduled events. And another thing is participants
[52:18] don't all come at 7 p.m. Like I mentioned before there are participants who are working participants
[52:24] who might be visiting friends relatives. They come in between 7 and 9 p.m. So with that staggered
[52:31] flow and with an event happening, we can communicate to our participants to make sure that they
[52:37] know that event is happening and make sure that if there are participants who need to be
[52:43] there early, we reserve the space for them and the other participants know to come in at
[52:47] a time that won't affect the parking for the parishioners as well as the rest of the participants.
[52:52] So, would you also consider putting up some kind of a barricade over that entrance so that the folks
[52:59] that need to park there on a temporary basis for an activity don't go into that area, you know,
[53:04] We would call off the spaces.
[53:06] Okay.
[53:08] Okay.
[53:09] So I will always curious to have just a few more.
[53:13] Where is the security guard actually stationed?
[53:16] Is that person have a vehicle in that lot?
[53:18] Do they, I mean, where are they at 3 o'clock in the morning?
[53:21] They're not standing at the entrance most likely.
[53:24] And it doesn't show that on the site map.
[53:26] Where are they going to be located?
[53:28] So the security officer would have a vehicle once the entry closes.
[53:33] he would stay in the vehicle and do patrols every hour.
[53:40] And then what we want to do is make sure that their vehicle is moved every hour
[53:45] to a different position from one side of the entrance to the other,
[53:48] just to make sure that there's a better view point.
[53:52] And then there's also, you know, we maximize the, you know, what he can observe.
[53:58] Okay, and you mentioned there would be cameras. Where are the cameras positioned?
[54:02] So, we are going to use the cameras that all
[54:05] central already have and also add cameras.
[54:08] So, we have a complete view of the whole parking lot.
[54:12] Okay. Thank you.
[54:14] All right. So, you kind of mentioned what happens, I'm curious what happens with the security
[54:21] guard. If that person, the security guard, let's say, has an emergency or is ill or for some
[54:27] reason has to leave. How is that handled? And let's say it's at two o'clock in the morning,
[54:33] how do you handle something like that? That happens occasionally. So the security company has
[54:37] supporters who are roving. They stop at all. There are other sites that they work with. So in the
[54:43] event of security person has to leave, which happens, that supporters would come in and take over
[54:48] that shift until another security officer is able to relieve them. Okay. Let's see what else.
[54:56] So you mentioned that there's a certain time limit where they can come in.
[55:00] What if they, what if they work like a night shift and they have to come in at two o'clock in the morning, is that okay? Or can they leave it like let's say they have an early morning shift? Can they leave it? Can they come in and out at different times all during the night? How does that work? That's a good question. So we do, we do have a lot of people who work. Depending on the employment and them showing us work schedules, we will allow a late entry, but that would not go past midnight because that would affect everyone else.
[55:30] As far as when it comes to leaving the program, folks can leave at any time, but basically
[55:39] we do have discussions with any participants who would be leaving early or in any way that
[55:45] they so even if it's they leave at the normal time, if it's something that is you know they
[55:51] are creating a disturbance, those are conversations we would have individually with that with that
[55:56] participant.
[55:57] So we'd think in your registration and your intake, you would probably find out that kind
[56:01] of information when people need to go to work or when they need to leave.
[56:05] So when we tell the folks the entry time, they usually tell us that they're working and
[56:11] what their schedules are.
[56:12] So we would ask them for a schedule and then we would let security know that they are given
[56:17] that exemption.
[56:18] Okay.
[56:19] Let's see.
[56:20] Also, is there, I didn't see on the map anywhere,
[56:25] where there's any kind of minimal safety equipment
[56:28] like a hose or a fire extinguisher,
[56:31] maybe a first aid kit, do you provide for that?
[56:35] Yeah, so the three things we want to have
[56:37] are security officers in the vehicles,
[56:39] is two fire extinguishers, first aid kit,
[56:43] and we also keep rations just in case people
[56:48] or come in late water if someone in the middle of the night.
[56:52] So basic rations and dry food in case someone wakes up
[56:56] in the middle of the night and they need something.
[56:57] OK, thank you so much.
[56:59] And then also, my last question, as you mentioned,
[57:02] that you have three operations in Los Angeles.
[57:06] Can you tell us just anecdotally how if unforeseen difficulties
[57:12] came up, how you handled them?
[57:14] How do you handle those kinds of things?
[57:16] because you can't plan for everything.
[57:18] Absolutely, we're planners, we know that.
[57:20] Absolutely.
[57:21] No, like with any program, medical emergencies.
[57:25] When it comes to one of our folks having a medical emergency,
[57:29] we've had folks who've had asthma on our lot
[57:33] who needed to be transferred by paramedics.
[57:36] We had a person who had a minor stroke
[57:41] while in the same thing where our security would get involved.
[57:45] They would contact paramedics and they would let us know so that we can also step in and help when necessary.
[57:51] So that is something that we can expect people have health issues like anyone.
[57:55] There are times when we would have participants who are not abiding by the rules or creating a disturbance.
[58:05] If that happens, first thing they would do is security would call me.
[58:09] We would have a discussion with the participants, and if they're willing to stay on the understand
[58:15] that they have to follow the rules and protocols, we would let them stay, but if they're not
[58:19] willing to reason, then we would ask them to exit the program.
[58:22] Okay, and then finally, my colleague also mentioned to the 48-hour kind of getting back to
[58:29] someone that seems to be kind of a long time.
[58:32] If somebody is having a problem next door or hearing noise or something's going on, they want
[58:36] more of an immediate answer, is there something we can condition that it's within, you know,
[58:45] immediately or within 12 hours or something that's a little bit more reasonable than 48 hours
[58:49] to get a response? So you're referring to the response time to a complaint? Yeah.
[58:55] So, Commissioner, that depends on the certainty of the complaint. If it is something that we consider
[59:02] that is, you know, a person being, you know, like a person not falling the rules and just
[59:09] being loud, loud music, something like that, it wouldn't be 48 hours because it's going
[59:15] to affect the other participants as well. That's when we have that discussion about, are they
[59:19] willing to say, and that discussion would happen immediately. If it's a different complaint
[59:24] where we have to do an investigation to see what it is about, right? You know, if someone
[59:30] says, oh, that's this person here, we have to look into see if that person is a person
[59:34] in our program, and, you know, we have to take those, but we have to do due diligence.
[59:39] So depending on the survey, if it's something that severe, we would respond immediately.
[59:43] Okay.
[59:43] If it's something that takes us a reasonable investigation, then we would do that and then
[59:49] respond to.
[59:51] Okay.
[59:51] I understand.
[59:51] And finally, my last question, you heard one of the appellants right eloquently went through
[59:57] the kinds of findings we have to make in some of the...
[1:00:00] The concerns, and one that came up was that there's not adequate security for the on-site homelessness project at all saints currently. How do you, how are you going to reconcile that if there's no security on the other side, so to speak, where you have unhoused people who are sleeping on the grounds of all saints, and they tend to come over or whatever. How are you going to coordinate, I think,
[1:00:29] with Ms. Tamble and you probably will be coordinating with all saints on that?
[1:00:35] We are.
[1:00:37] Okay.
[1:00:42] That we were in compliance with...
[1:00:45] I'm sorry?
[1:00:46] Could you speak into the microphone, yes?
[1:00:49] Thank you.
[1:00:49] Okay, sorry.
[1:00:51] We believe that we were under compliance and that with security, we work with the same security
[1:00:57] firm that provides security here at City Hall and that with them coming over a couple of times
[1:01:01] a night based on the language we believed that we were in compliance when we received
[1:01:06] a warning not too long ago that we were not, we immediately fixed that problem and now
[1:01:12] we do have security guards on site at all sites from 7 p.m. to 7 a.m. 7 days a week.
[1:01:30] Okay.
[1:01:31] for restrooms which has now moved from the safe parking program to the safe haven program.
[1:01:37] We still have the same objection, but we've come up with what we think is a reasonable
[1:01:41] solution that we'd like to throw out.
[1:01:44] There is a playground.
[1:01:45] You can see that's locked when our staff goes home.
[1:01:50] And what we're suggesting is that we put cipher locks on either side of that parking lot,
[1:01:55] a lock with a combination on it so that only the people who are in safe haven will be
[1:02:00] able to use that and punch their way in and walk through the playground to the port
[1:02:09] of potty that's in the parking lot. Therefore, not having to use the sidewalk or go off
[1:02:14] the All Saints property at all. So, and there's certainly the security guard who's there
[1:02:19] can also monitor that. Okay, but we think it's a reasonable solution versus having staff
[1:02:25] and having to pay for staff when that's something that's a financial hardship for us.
[1:02:30] Okay. Thank you very much. I think I think I think that's just to clarify that point though. Sorry, Ms. Tamlin, there would be two security guards.
[1:02:39] Yes, it would be one for safe haven and one for safe parking. Yeah.
[1:02:41] It would then be able to monitor the single rest room. So I think the staff recommendation was to put-
[1:02:47] The staff recommendation was to have one for safe parking and to use one indoors at All Saints. And if we were to have that,
[1:02:55] that we would have to have a member of the staff.
[1:02:59] But in the staff diagram, I thought it was to add a second
[1:03:03] portable restroom for safe haven.
[1:03:05] No, just to have, I think, perhaps, maybe if you can.
[1:03:10] Do you want to show it?
[1:03:11] Do you want to show it?
[1:03:12] Allison.
[1:03:14] Do you need me anymore to do that?
[1:03:17] But you can pull up the plan.
[1:03:19] I thought it showed another portable.
[1:03:21] It was a corner of, see the red.
[1:03:25] That's actually a trailer that's on our property that also houses all of our technology
[1:03:31] equipment.
[1:03:32] And it does have a single bathroom in it, but it is problematic for us to use that for
[1:03:39] a variety of reasons, number one, having to clean it, number two, all of our technology.
[1:03:46] Well, how would the other ones be cleaned?
[1:03:47] I mean, there's a service that comes in and cleans it Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
[1:03:52] Okay.
[1:03:52] But doesn't that restroom at the trailer have an outside door, not going into the trailer?
[1:03:59] No.
[1:04:00] Oh, it doesn't.
[1:04:01] Okay.
[1:04:01] That's correct.
[1:04:02] You have to go in through the door, into the building.
[1:04:05] And they also use, do they also use the restroom in that kind of temporary area off that little
[1:04:12] courtyard just south of the playground.
[1:04:15] I know that that that facilities use a lot of different rooms.
[1:04:20] Yeah, and that trailer, they use that one too, don't they?
[1:04:23] That's the one of which I'm speaking.
[1:04:25] Okay.
[1:04:25] It is where all of our technology equipment is stored.
[1:04:27] Oh, yeah.
[1:04:28] So why?
[1:04:31] If you want to discuss it anymore, I'm happy to, or I can discuss it at another time.
[1:04:36] All right.
[1:04:36] Thank you very much.
[1:04:38] You have more?
[1:04:40] Yeah.
[1:04:41] I'm sorry.
[1:04:43] I apologize.
[1:04:44] I'm sorry.
[1:04:44] Go ahead.
[1:04:44] Carol.
[1:04:45] I was sorry.
[1:04:46] I was thinking how many port parties are you going to have available and are you going
[1:04:52] to have a reference women?
[1:04:54] Are you going to have opportunities for them to have privacy?
[1:04:58] I mean, you have a wash station.
[1:05:00] Are you going to, is it going to be enclosed? Can they go in, they can somehow bathe themselves? So the actual bathroom on site would not have, the hand washing station would not be enclosed that would just be for folks who are using the bathroom to wash their hands. The idea of providing this restroom is for folks when they need to use a restroom at night. During the day, we would refer them to other services. Of course, all sensors are really good program.
[1:05:29] and then with them, we operate showers on Mondays.
[1:05:33] So all of this would help us connect them to these services.
[1:05:36] So you're saying you offer showers on Monday?
[1:05:39] Monday, yes, every Monday morning,
[1:05:40] we offer showers at all Saints.
[1:05:42] Oh, okay.
[1:05:43] Thank you.
[1:05:46] Referencing to children.
[1:05:49] The reference is only to infants.
[1:05:52] Do we have older children?
[1:05:55] You will have them.
[1:05:57] Will they be able to take advantage of the playground?
[1:06:02] So, coming to this program is at 9.
[1:06:04] Yeah, I know, but kids in the summertime night goes a long time.
[1:06:09] So the program would be from 7pm to 7am.
[1:06:13] Just for safety, we would not allow them outside of their vehicles
[1:06:17] because this would go into the other side of the parking lot.
[1:06:20] So, with children, yes, that does happen once in a while.
[1:06:24] when they're not infants we do allow them into the program, but what we do is we
[1:06:29] we prioritize to get them into a better form of shelter. So a goal with the
[1:06:36] family if they have young kids is to have them out of the program within a week.
[1:06:41] So for a short time like that because it is after 7 p.m. they would not have
[1:06:46] access to the playground. So thank you covered all of my questions I really
[1:06:51] appreciate it. Thank you. Commissioner, any other question? I have more. Continue, Karen.
[1:06:58] Okay, thank you.
[1:07:01] How many, you operate three facilities, you said? How, what are the
[1:07:05] size of those facilities? Can you repeat that command? You operate three, you said you operate three
[1:07:10] different facilities. Yes. So, what are the sizes that are parking spaces? I mean, how many
[1:07:14] number parking spaces do you have at those facilities? So, the two safe parking programs, we have that
[1:07:18] that are overnight just like this are 20 spaces each.
[1:07:22] The program that is a 24-7 parking program,
[1:07:26] specifically for RVs, is 14 spaces.
[1:07:29] Okay, that's good, so you've had a lot of experience
[1:07:31] with larger than this.
[1:07:36] Since we've been operating since 2019 and, you know,
[1:07:41] we have average of above 15 individuals
[1:07:44] on each lot on any given night.
[1:07:46] another question about financing your resources I know the city is providing
[1:07:51] about 305,000 I don't know about all saints but what are your other funding
[1:07:56] sources so we work with other foundations too so we have a grant through the
[1:08:02] Hilton foundation and that grant what we do is so whenever our participants find
[1:08:08] housing we use that grant either for a deposit or for furniture we also utilize
[1:08:14] that grant from minor vehicle right there. So let's say the vehicle has an issue that, you know,
[1:08:20] is, you know, simple issues that we can fix. We recently had individuals who's
[1:08:24] few pump went out. Those kind of issues we pay for through that grant and then we'll also be
[1:08:31] working with other grants and other organizations. Big part of this is referring our clients to other
[1:08:37] resources. So, you know, try to, you know, when an individual first comes in, we try to look at
[1:08:42] What are the barriers for them to getting into a more stable, if not a shelter, into permanent housing?
[1:08:50] And like I said, there's a lot of individuals who work.
[1:08:52] So, we look at, okay, what do we need to do to get this person into the next step?
[1:08:58] And that's why these programs are successful in providing that overnight safe parking,
[1:09:04] but more in trying to divert them into more stable housing resources.
[1:09:09] Okay. Okay. You also indicated as mostly women? Majority is I'd say above 60% of safe parking, but if you don't tell women.
[1:09:22] I'm just going to get into condition number 11.
[1:09:32] How many vehicles are okay, safe parking?
[1:09:38] back to the, I think there's the barrier question that was
[1:09:41] Commissioner Caw. I know there's like four or five, there's about four
[1:09:45] entrances into this parking lot. There's one from Walnut, there's one from
[1:09:50] Euclid, and then there's actually one that can weave through all the
[1:09:54] Saints parking. So how are you going to create a barrier for that?
[1:09:58] So once, once...
[1:10:00] It's time the clock occurs or late, then you just put a chain link fence or chain classic. We would quorum off the entrances because, you know, it's still a small parking lot. And if you look at right now, it's got really good visibility with the overnight lighting. So the folks coming in are security would be able to see them. So
[1:10:31] I think I did ask for it. Is there more than one port of party? And you said there's only one provided for this for the safe parking participants.
[1:10:38] to be just one. Yeah. Is that sufficient? Yes.
[1:10:44] Again, Commissioner, this is only for overnight use.
[1:10:48] I understand that. You know, it's for emergency use at night. So, you know, most of our
[1:10:53] participants know that, you know, if they want to use, you know, take a shower or any other, you know,
[1:11:00] they would either utilize a program like a mobile showers or go to a shelter or a day center to
[1:11:05] to get those services.
[1:11:06] Thank you.
[1:11:08] I think that's all my questions that I have.
[1:11:12] Thank you.
[1:11:13] Other questions, Jennifer?
[1:11:15] What are you going to do?
[1:11:16] Yes, I was wondering when and where you do the work
[1:11:20] with the participants.
[1:11:21] When you talk to them and work with them to get them
[1:11:25] into more stable permanent housing.
[1:11:30] That's a good question.
[1:11:31] So initially I saw the first contact
[1:11:34] when they enter the program is when we try to create a plan for them and then
[1:11:39] depending on their needs, our case manager would work with them during the day,
[1:11:44] mostly it's two phone calls, sometimes if they need the help, we do a lot of
[1:11:49] times where we have to help our participants with, we also pay for
[1:11:53] registration to help them with issues if they have with their vehicle, so those
[1:11:59] Those would be in person, so depending on the need and what sort of resource it would
[1:12:05] be either phone call or in person.
[1:12:07] Could you talk a little bit about how long people typically have been living in their
[1:12:14] car when they come into a program like yours?
[1:12:19] So average is three months, that's where most people land.
[1:12:23] We have some folks who come in for a short period and for them they understand the program is not for them and then we have the folks who come in and you know, depending on the resources available, they would be in our program three to six months.
[1:12:39] Now, the stay in our program would depend on them also working on using other resources.
[1:12:47] So it would be dependent upon if they're working with other providers towards looking
[1:12:52] at most stable resources.
[1:12:54] And have they typically already been living in their car for some period of time before they
[1:13:00] come into the program?
[1:13:01] Majority, I'd say less than 20% contact us when they are immediately homeless.
[1:13:09] So, majority have been living in their car before they come into the program.
[1:13:12] For some period of time.
[1:13:14] So, you're not planning on doing any of that programming,
[1:13:18] counseling, working with the participants on site at all sites.
[1:13:23] That all happens on the phone or elsewhere.
[1:13:28] And then, you know, a lot of times we will have our case managers walk our folks into different programs.
[1:13:34] I'm sorry, sometimes they need that support.
[1:13:36] So depending on where those resources are,
[1:13:39] so whether it be union stations or the services
[1:13:42] or other programs, it would be at those locations.
[1:13:45] Okay.
[1:13:46] Can we ask questions of the All Saints as well?
[1:13:53] Yes, for All Saints, I was wondering how you did
[1:13:55] to her mend 25 was the number of vehicles
[1:14:00] that was the right number for this program to start with?
[1:14:02] So, actually, Commissioner, that came for us as a program and looking at all the other
[1:14:09] programs operate about the providers and how we see our security officers performing.
[1:14:16] We think 25 is the maximum number for one security officer to be able to handle.
[1:14:23] And because of the logistics of that lot, you felt you could put 25 vehicles maximum plus
[1:14:30] security guards.
[1:14:31] Sorry, Commissioner.
[1:14:31] So it's up to individuals.
[1:14:33] So majority we see around one and a half people,
[1:14:35] so we do get a lot of couples.
[1:14:38] So we are expecting 15 to 18 vehicles,
[1:14:41] and that'll hit the maximum capacity of 25 occupants.
[1:14:49] Great, thanks.
[1:14:50] Michael, any question?
[1:14:55] With that, I think we will move on to public comment.
[1:14:58] Thank you.
[1:15:00] Thank you, Commissioner. No. Our first speaker is streffon Fable.
[1:15:11] Thank you. How long do I have to speak? Three minutes. Three minutes. Okay, I don't know if we'll take that one. I think we're using the time. Aren't we? Tony, thank you. Um, so I'd like to comment what Silvio said from a different direction. So your job is fellow residents of Pasadena. Um, is to look out for other Pasadena residents. You don't represent a church. You don't represent staff.
[1:15:34] and I believe that you can't make the findings that are required for this,
[1:15:40] either in terms of safety or legality, and you shouldn't show favor or disfavor
[1:15:45] to this because it's a church, regardless of whether you supported or not.
[1:15:52] Let me try to get at this through two analogies. Suppose there was somebody who had
[1:15:59] a liquor license in Pasadena who were applying for a second liquor license and you discovered
[1:16:05] when the application was coming through that that person had approximately 450 calls since
[1:16:11] 2022, 2020 at their business. Suppose that the for the first license the person had been
[1:16:18] required to have an on-site security guard and you discovered they hadn't done that, right?
[1:16:25] And the applicant has said, well, we believed we were complying.
[1:16:30] So there was a link in the brief from the Maryland, in which the applicant is on video
[1:16:35] saying, well, we know where you were supposed to have a security guard.
[1:16:40] But we didn't think we really needed any more.
[1:16:42] So we sometimes had somebody from City Hall walk over.
[1:16:45] We put a security guard only on the hot nights on Friday and Saturday.
[1:16:50] What would you think of that?
[1:16:51] And if you wanted to, I have the video on my phone.
[1:16:54] I could show it to you where the applicant and then then
[1:16:56] Rector Kinman are saying this directly.
[1:16:59] There is no question but that they understood
[1:17:01] that they were violating their permit.
[1:17:03] Now they say they've rectified it.
[1:17:05] That would be like the guy asking for the second permit
[1:17:08] for the liquor license, temporarily getting the security guard
[1:17:12] on site so they could say they were compliant
[1:17:14] while they were hoping to get the second one.
[1:17:16] I don't think that you would give that person
[1:17:19] in a second license. There's negative activity there. They have willingly, knowingly violated
[1:17:25] the permit and they're now they're asking for a second one. You shouldn't grant it.
[1:17:31] The other point I'd like to briefly make is about whether this satisfies the legal conditions.
[1:17:39] So the code talks about a religious facility, not a site. If the City Council had wanted
[1:17:46] to talk about a site with multiple parcels, it could have done that, it didn't.
[1:17:51] And it defined a religious facility as something that is primarily used for religious reasons.
[1:17:59] This has been a commercial site servicing the nearby courthouse since they bought it.
[1:18:05] It is used all day for that.
[1:18:07] It is occasionally used sort of lightly in the evening.
[1:18:11] It's primary use is not a religious facility, it does not meet the code, that's also relevant
[1:18:18] to your sequer review of this because the staff has said that this is not an expansion
[1:18:22] of use.
[1:18:23] It is and it's a change of use from a commercial parking lot to a shelter arrangement
[1:18:28] and I see my time as app.
[1:18:31] Thank you.
[1:18:31] Our
[1:18:34] next speaker is Alex Baker, he was a
[1:18:44] good evening.
[1:18:46] I've been living in, I'm Alex Baker.
[1:18:48] I've been living in Pasadena for a couple of years with my wife.
[1:18:51] I moved to Pasadena with my couple of years to start a new life.
[1:18:57] And I've been very happily living in Pasadena and engaging with the community.
[1:19:01] And I really like living here.
[1:19:03] I come from Spain and I've moved to Los Angeles and I'm loving my life here.
[1:19:06] I have this aspiration of starting a family soon and I don't see this program going into
[1:19:21] the direction of safety and security that the new family will require.
[1:19:26] I would like to ask to the commissioner, how would you feel if you had a next door parking
[1:19:31] being spotted occupied by all night by homeless incomes that are living there in the car.
[1:19:42] I work at night, I have night shifts, having my wife and have to work around the neighborhood
[1:19:51] is not safe right now in a lot of situations around the neighborhood and I don't think this
[1:19:56] is moving to, you know, to the correct direction.
[1:20:00] Well, I just want to finish my conclusion with that. I respect the objective. I'm really in favor of
[1:20:09] ending homelessness and supporting, but I don't believe this measure is humane to the homeless people
[1:20:16] having to sleep in a car. I think there's other options that can be done through the church and
[1:20:22] through all the funding to actually get proper, proper housing for this homeless and actually treat
[1:20:28] the human beings. Thank you. Thank you. Our next figure is Janine Rowne.
[1:20:41] Hi, Janine Rowne. I live near here
[1:20:45] and the next district over in Glassel Park where there is a safe parking. It's been there for
[1:20:51] maybe about four years. It's right off of Verdugo and I have to pass by it as I before I turn on my
[1:20:59] Street. I'm about eight blocks away. And I don't even know it's there. There's really been
[1:21:06] no issues. It's right next to a park and a library and a community center. And so, you know, I'm
[1:21:14] listening to the concerns of safety. And I would actually, I actually feel safer that it's there
[1:21:22] because one, it means that anybody that the police come across or anybody comes across, they can say,
[1:21:29] You know what? Don't be on the street. You can go right down over there. And there's a safe lot, you know, and I guess regarding safety as well is, you know, I'm involved in my community.
[1:21:48] I'm involved with neighborhood council and that sort of thing and I know of some of the stories there and, you know, woman in her car.
[1:21:59] And we hours of the morning and somebody knocking on the window is traumatizing.
[1:22:08] And I'm sure you have people sleeping in their cars here in Pasadena.
[1:22:12] I work here, I've parked on outdoor lots, not indoor lots in the buildings.
[1:22:18] The outdoor lots, the street parking, and there are people that are living in their cars.
[1:22:23] So I think that this actually makes it safer.
[1:22:27] I actually brag about it.
[1:22:29] You know, I feel like it's such a gift
[1:22:33] to be able to offer this to people
[1:22:35] because many people are in transition.
[1:22:38] One story was a woman waiting for housing,
[1:22:41] but sometimes it takes some time to figure it out
[1:22:45] for the things to surface that are going to be the best fit for you.
[1:22:49] And people are scared.
[1:22:50] You know, they know if they walk into an office, you know, some office and just offer themselves up.
[1:22:55] They may end up somewhere that they don't want to be. They're very protective.
[1:23:00] And so I just think, and I know that that facility is well run.
[1:23:06] Shower of hope is very well run.
[1:23:10] I mean, it's, it's a operation. It's a machine.
[1:23:14] I don't, I don't know whether you guys have ever been to it or watched any of their videos.
[1:23:18] but it's really a godsend to our community and I think that it's in when you see
[1:23:28] that all saints despite whatever has happened I don't know the history, but that
[1:23:33] they're bringing in shower of hope to run this is showing that they know
[1:23:39] that they you know that they've got somebody in there that knows what they're doing.
[1:23:44] So I'm very much in favor of this. Thank you.
[1:23:46] Thank you, Janine.
[1:23:49] Our next speaker is Mia Martinez.
[1:23:59] Hi, good evening. So I'm here to share with you why I support the
[1:24:04] destination Hope Safe Parking Program. And it is because the program protects
[1:24:09] public safety. When people who live in their vehicles have a secure place to park
[1:24:13] it reduces late-night disturbances on safe parking on residential streets and
[1:24:18] unnecessary police costs. It also reflects community responsibility.
[1:24:23] Pasadena has long led with compassion and innovation and providing a safe place to park
[1:24:28] as a humane and practical solution that benefits both un-house residents and the neighborhoods
[1:24:33] around them.
[1:24:34] I'll also share a few quotes that I've seen from other safe parking programs in nearby
[1:24:40] cities.
[1:24:41] So like for instance in insinitas, there's an article that says, since the start of its safe
[1:24:46] parking program in 2020, there have been zero crime reports and no arrests tied to that
[1:24:51] program.
[1:24:52] This is according to the city staff report and then another article, a broader review,
[1:25:00] There are practices for safe parking, notes that while safe parking doesn't guarantee permanent stability, it fulfills the basic safety and security needs and reduces exposure to risks based on living and uncontrolled public spaces. There's another one called safe parking insights from a review of national programs, and that notes that a real community need and often maintains positive relationships with neighboring communities. And not too far away from here also
[1:25:29] in San Diego, the Jewish Family Service Safe Parking Program, is often nearly full,
[1:25:34] which signals demand, and local leaders call it a critical gap in shelter services.
[1:25:39] Not because it solves all problems, but because it mitigates risks that would otherwise burden
[1:25:45] streets, law enforcement, and community safety.
[1:25:48] So these pieces of evidence suggest that safe parking programs, when well managed, do
[1:25:52] not tend to become centers of crime, and may reduce tensions that arise from unregulated
[1:25:58] parking or street camping in residential areas. So proving this program will not solve
[1:26:02] homelessness on its own, but it will strengthen public safety and reflect pathogeness commitment
[1:26:07] to responsible compassionate solutions. I urge you to grant the zoning approval so this
[1:26:12] important program can serve the community.
[1:26:16] Thank you. The next speaker is Jan Pelzer.
[1:26:26] Good evening. I'm John Pelzer and, you know, Mel's presentation and the questions
[1:26:32] and agency gave, covered a lot of grounds. I'm just going to go right to my personal experience
[1:26:37] with this. I've been a volunteer. We share a foe for seven years now. And for the past four
[1:26:44] years, I've been supplying meals once a week to the two locations, Glasgow Park, and West Lake.
[1:26:56] So that's a lot of interactions. I know the program. I know the people who are a part of it.
[1:27:02] And I'm here to tell you, far from being areas of concern, I will say outright that these
[1:27:08] two locations are probably among the most boring locations in Los Angeles.
[1:27:14] There's nothing going on.
[1:27:15] These people just want to have a good night's sleep, have a meal, and that is it.
[1:27:22] So in addition to what Mel said, the vetting that goes in, before they're there, and strictly
[1:27:28] enforcing the rules.
[1:27:29] The main reason these locations work is the people there need them to work.
[1:27:35] Nobody wants it to be safer both in and outside the location than they do or maybe equally.
[1:27:42] And that's it. I thank you very much.
[1:27:49] The next speaker is Daniel Lopez.
[1:27:55] Just a couple of comments and I've mentioned a couple of these points in a previous meeting.
[1:28:01] just introduced myself. I was a teacher. My name is Daniel. I was a teacher at
[1:28:06] McKinley in Madison Elementary here in Pasadena. I love the city. I spent a lot
[1:28:11] of my time here. I was here after the fires to volunteer my time. I just want to
[1:28:17] start by addressing and pushing back on the idea that people advocates for this
[1:28:21] program have no stake in the city or no interest in the city. To add to that I
[1:28:27] have been an advocated for different programs in my city, very close to where I live because
[1:28:33] I believe in it, I believe in the operations in it. So I just wanted to add that. I also
[1:28:39] was the intake coordinator for two of the safe parking lots that were mentioned, the West
[1:28:42] Lake and the Glassel Park one, for I believe it's like six months. I can confidently say that
[1:28:48] during my time, dozens of guests at the lot, there were no issues, there were no violence,
[1:28:54] There were no, there was no littering, there was no public urination that has been a concern
[1:28:59] in the past by some of these opponents of the program.
[1:29:03] The guests were respectful, they were grateful, and as mentioned, significant percentage
[1:29:08] of them were working class people who held jobs.
[1:29:12] People have concerns any time they hear the word homelessness, and I completely sympathize
[1:29:17] with that.
[1:29:18] I work in West Lake, I write by my car to the park, I drive and walk by it every single day,
[1:29:23] as well as volunteering for years with the mobile shower as well.
[1:29:28] Two of those locations, two times a week at MacArthur Park for the time that we were there.
[1:29:32] So I understand there's a huge nervousness around that.
[1:29:37] I see the worst addiction that we see, the worst mental illness that we see.
[1:29:43] And I think just to paint homelessness as a whole with that idea in mind,
[1:29:47] And I just think it's, it's, it's just, it doesn't represent what homeless is in 2025.
[1:29:55] So the program, let's see, yeah, the program.
[1:30:00] That this program in particular has very high standards and operates in a way that I would call compassionate accountability. It does not tolerate destruction of property, violence, public disruption, and I'd argue that providing structure, safety, and stability is incredibly beneficial for a community that simply can ignore homelessness any longer, so thank you. Thank you. The next speaker is Reverend Tim Rich.
[1:30:33] Good evening, commissioners. Thank you so much for your time and attention. I have to say as I've
[1:30:40] been listening to the conversation back and forth and I hear questions about the credibility of all
[1:30:47] saints. I think our credibility is absolutely one of the foundations of who we are. We have been
[1:30:56] good partners not perfect as any community resident might not be perfect, but we've been
[1:31:03] good partners in trying to contribute to making the community better.
[1:31:06] It's ironic that members of the Maryland seem to be concerned about the problematic behavior
[1:31:13] of these potential residents when you have been sitting here saying throughout our testimony,
[1:31:19] that's false.
[1:31:20] That's a lie.
[1:31:21] That's not true.
[1:31:23] That seems like disregulated behavior if you asked me.
[1:31:27] I want to say that if there's a concern about safety,
[1:31:33] I would be, excuse me, I'm speaking.
[1:31:37] If there's a, thank you for your—
[1:31:38] Please, please.
[1:31:39] I want to say—
[1:31:40] Just be quiet.
[1:31:41] He's addressing us.
[1:31:42] Just address us.
[1:31:43] Don't address them.
[1:31:43] I want to say if there's a concern about safety,
[1:31:47] I would listen to what the police say.
[1:31:49] The police seem to be recommending this.
[1:31:52] I understand that there were some 400 calls made over the span of some amount of time.
[1:31:57] I wonder what the nature of those calls were.
[1:31:59] I wonder what the disposition of the police response was.
[1:32:02] And I wonder how, after that, the police still today recommend this.
[1:32:08] Look, I want to just speak to two things for why we're passionate about this.
[1:32:12] One is the moral standpoint where we need to respect the dignity of every human being.
[1:32:18] of every human being, and unhoused existence, the dignity gets stripped from them all the time.
[1:32:27] I also want to say, as my previous career is a psychotherapist and a communal mental
[1:32:31] health worker, that when there is a stable resting place for those who are unhoused, there's
[1:32:41] greater emotional stability. When there is a predictable toilet team place for those who are
[1:32:46] unhoused, there's greater emotional stability. When there is a community of people who attend
[1:32:53] to those who are unhoused, there's greater emotional stability. The emotional stability
[1:32:59] of these people who would be a part of this program would be enhanced by virtue of participating
[1:33:06] in the program. I think this program enhances their lives and enhances the lives of the
[1:33:12] community, and I hope that you will support this program.
[1:33:16] Thank you.
[1:33:18] Thank you, and just to clarify, the call logs were for five years.
[1:33:23] I'm sorry?
[1:33:24] The call logs were for five years.
[1:33:25] For five years.
[1:33:26] Okay, thank you.
[1:33:32] The next speaker is Denise Liu.
[1:33:43] Good evening, Chair Geesinger and commissioners of board.
[1:33:48] My name is Denise Liu.
[1:33:49] I am first vice president of government relations.
[1:33:52] I'm here to represent East West Bank.
[1:33:55] As some of you know, our headquarters is on 135 North Los
[1:33:59] Robles Boulevard Avenue, my mistake, where we've been
[1:34:04] for over 20 years.
[1:34:06] And, you know, we're right next door to Austin's church.
[1:34:09] We're also right across from City Hall.
[1:34:12] And every day hundreds of our employees, customers,
[1:34:16] visitors pass through the area to go to work,
[1:34:20] to conduct business, to use our branch and ATM machines, and Eastwood's bank has submitted a letter supporting the Maryland's home owner's association's appeal of the decision to appeal.
[1:34:36] Let me take a step back, appeal of the decision to grant a minor conditional use permit for the safe parking program at 202 Uglid Avenue.
[1:34:47] From our perspective, as a neighbor and as a business serving the community, the proposal
[1:34:53] raises serious concerns for us, allowing up to 25 vehicles and
[1:35:00] Individuals to stay in overnight in such a small space with little to access to water, bathroom,
[1:35:10] trust, disposal, and very limited security, creates clear health and safety concerns.
[1:35:18] These risks tend not only to the folks, a part of the program, but to those around it, to
[1:35:24] many folks that live, work, visit this part of Pasadena every day. And so I urge the board to
[1:35:31] seriously take seriously the concerns of the Maryland and the others living in this neighborhood.
[1:35:38] Thank you.
[1:35:42] Thank you very much. The next speaker is Kevin Ezzi.
[1:36:02] It's good to see a lot of the
[1:36:03] whole family here today.
[1:36:06] So, first I wanted to commend you on the way you do things,
[1:36:14] meaning having both presenters present first and then have public comment because you can see a
[1:36:20] lot of what people can't prepared with when they come in. And a lot of it doesn't hold up once you
[1:36:26] find out what operational security and the actual practice is like. So, what Mel didn't touch on,
[1:36:34] I also volunteer with a few of the sites that housed the safe parking as well as the shower of hope.
[1:36:45] At the safe parking site specifically, what he didn't touch on because he was too busy telling you exactly how operational security would run
[1:36:52] is the kind of camaraderie that forms between the people that come there.
[1:36:57] These aren't strangers to each other. They stay there. A lot of times they swap stories
[1:37:02] and they actually bond over the experiences they have and they build together to think about what they want to do, how they want to get out.
[1:37:10] A lot of these people who actually have their cars there, they're not thinking of staying there long term.
[1:37:17] They have dreams, just like we do. We want to move from that apartment to that condo or that condo to that SFR. It's the same thing.
[1:37:26] So what I'm hearing based on the ordinance or the proposal is that we have a negotiation
[1:37:34] between compassion and safety.
[1:37:37] So the program offers security guards, participant registration to keep track, and a community
[1:37:45] hotline.
[1:37:46] That's unheard of.
[1:37:47] So instead of calling the police, you can actually just call the hotline.
[1:37:49] That's a comforting thought, I guess.
[1:37:52] The mission of All Saints Church is to make God's love tangible through spirituality, community, peace, and justice.
[1:38:00] It sounds as if the city of Pasadena and All Saints are committed to making sure existing issues within the community aren't made worse.
[1:38:10] So some of the concerns by the opposition seem, I guess, out of whack.
[1:38:18] what the opposition and to this project has to understand is that the northern
[1:38:22] parcel meets the zone requirements as congregational parking and isn't just
[1:38:28] commercial use. I even heard I think Sylvie will say something about how all
[1:38:33] saints is actually paying taxes so they're stakeholders as well as having a
[1:38:37] congressional claim as well. The only way creative solutions like this will succeed
[1:38:43] is with strong cooperation and clear communication between the city all saints
[1:38:48] and the residents of Pasadena.
[1:38:50] This is a whole holistic approach.
[1:38:52] You know, it's not just something that is,
[1:38:55] yes, oversight is important.
[1:38:58] And Mel will tell you that anyone who can contribute
[1:39:02] to the program can and he'll take that under advisement
[1:39:05] and make sure no one runs a tighter ship
[1:39:07] than Mel Telekoretny.
[1:39:09] That's how you say his last name, by the way.
[1:39:11] Telekoretny.
[1:39:13] Can you wrap up your comments, your timer's up.
[1:39:15] Oh, thank you.
[1:39:16] Sure, that's all I need to say best quick.
[1:39:18] Thank you very much.
[1:39:21] The next speaker is Lynn Sakanis.
[1:39:31] Good evening, commissioners.
[1:39:33] I live in Pasadena and I fully support the safe parking.
[1:39:39] I think it's wonderful that all saints
[1:39:41] has agreed to partner with Mal who I volunteered with for many years.
[1:39:46] I volunteered at two of the safe parking sites
[1:39:51] right after they started in 2019 and I had no experience volunteering with
[1:39:58] homeless people.
[1:40:01] It was really an education for me. I spent a lot of time with the people who parked there, who really became a family. They were like me. And myself as a single woman, I had no concerns about my safety being there. And it was a life saver for these people. They're human beings. Most of them worked. A few of them had health conditions that made them homeless.
[1:40:30] They never thought they would find themselves living in their cards in a parking lot.
[1:40:36] They were all very lovely and high functioning people who were in a bad spot.
[1:40:43] And Mel is an amazing person who has operated many successful organizations, including the
[1:40:58] people help is to connect them with services. And that's exactly what he does. And many
[1:41:05] of them moved on to permanent housing or connected with other people that gave them opportunities.
[1:41:15] And I don't, as a resident of this city, I am not concerned and I am actually excited
[1:41:21] that this is coming to our
[1:41:24] communities so that I have another
[1:41:26] opportunity to help.
[1:41:28] So that's what I wanted to say.
[1:41:30] Thank you.
[1:41:31] Thank you very much.
[1:41:34] The next speaker is,
[1:41:37] I think it's best Newton.
[1:41:43] Bert, maybe it's bird.
[1:41:46] I'll take best.
[1:41:47] Okay, super.
[1:41:48] That's cool.
[1:41:50] Yeah, so my name is Bert Newton.
[1:41:52] I live in Pasadena.
[1:41:53] I'm the executive director of making
[1:41:55] housing and community happen.
[1:41:56] and also the chair of the Housing Justice Committee for the Clergy Community Coalition.
[1:42:01] Both organizations strongly support the Safe Parking Program. I also had previous experience
[1:42:07] doing direct service to people who've lost their housing out in the community here in Pasadena.
[1:42:13] And I found that those who sleep in their cars are in a much better situation.
[1:42:18] They're a lot less traumatized by their homelessness and therefore they exhibit far less
[1:42:24] incidents of substance abuse and severe mental illness, far easier to get into permanent
[1:42:30] housing than the average person who lives on the street without a car, the sleep's on
[1:42:36] the street. The Safe Parking Program at Trinity Lutheran, which we helped start, has been
[1:42:41] a rezoning success. I think Pastor Richter is here and I think she'll give you more information
[1:42:47] on that. And recently I took my wife to Huntington Hospital for outpatient surgery and one of
[1:42:53] people that helped us navigate the system, I recognized immediately from the Safe Parking
[1:42:57] Program. A lot of the people in the program work.
[1:43:03] Also, I live not far from the program,
[1:43:05] I also live a stone's throw from permanent supportive housing, Marv's place.
[1:43:13] They're
[1:43:13] great neighbors, I'm actually working with one of them right now, who after being housed,
[1:43:18] he became the policy advisor for program at Union Station, so we're working together
[1:43:21] on housing policy. Also, it's my understanding that commercial zones actually are zone for
[1:43:30] safe park and here in Pasadena when we got the MCUP for the Trinity. That was part of
[1:43:37] what happened is the city council okay, safe park and programs in commercial zones.
[1:43:45] Yeah,
[1:43:49] so homelessness where people have to have cars is the low-hanging fruit of homelessness
[1:43:54] crisis.
[1:43:56] And so we really need to take advantage of this.
[1:43:57] We really need it.
[1:43:58] It's going to help us in the long run.
[1:44:00] Thanks.
[1:44:01] Thank you.
[1:44:03] Next speaker is Joe Valdez.
[1:44:19] I just wanted to share my testimony.
[1:44:20] I was a former participant in the State Parking Program about two years ago.
[1:44:26] And it, um, for me, it was, uh, it revolutionized the way, um, my life went the direction.
[1:44:33] It, it really provided for me stability and a sense of community and belonging because
[1:44:39] without that, I was pretty much, I was just, I was everywhere and everywhere.
[1:44:44] And if it wasn't for that, say, parking, I would have, I wouldn't have got housed.
[1:44:50] I'm doing so much better now.
[1:44:51] I've actually gone from being in the program to being provided low income housing.
[1:45:00] On the street, and to actually getting section 8 housing, and I'm just grateful now. I'm actually excited about the future now, and I'm looking, I'm currently looking for my own place now, and I'm just, I'm grateful for the opportunity to have been a part of the program. And that's about it. Thank you for your comments.
[1:45:23] Why don't we hold the applause so we can get through this?
[1:45:26] The next speaker is C-Hews.
[1:45:30] Hews, I don't, it looks like S-I to me, but L-Hews, okay.
[1:45:38] S-L-Hews, I'm the senior warden at all saints of our bestry and the bestries are board.
[1:45:46] So first up, I want to think about one issue we have here is we're talking about all these
[1:45:51] individuals and the, sometimes it sounds like the assumption is that somehow these people
[1:45:55] or coming here, you realize they're already here.
[1:45:59] So these people are here.
[1:46:02] And right now they're having to stay in alleys
[1:46:07] or dark places or whatever.
[1:46:08] That's certainly not best for the community.
[1:46:10] And it's not safe for them either.
[1:46:14] Sometimes we have questions about the suitability
[1:46:16] of the individuals.
[1:46:18] I always think about, these are people who have cars.
[1:46:20] They maintain driver's license.
[1:46:22] I know lots of people who have homes who
[1:46:24] can't maintain their driver's license.
[1:46:25] So, there is a certain level of responsibility that they have come in here.
[1:46:30] They just don't have jobs right now.
[1:46:32] Or if they're working, they don't have enough money to have a home or a location.
[1:46:37] This provides that security.
[1:46:42] One issue that we have here too, that we do feel that there's a religious standpoint on
[1:46:46] this too because our diocese of Los Angeles, the National Church, has actually directed
[1:46:51] all parishes to utilize all of our properties in such a way that we can maintain support
[1:46:57] for low-income individuals and needy individuals.
[1:47:00] So we feel that this fits right into this procedure at all.
[1:47:05] One issue when we talk about the evening events,
[1:47:08] evening events actually very rarely impinge on that area.
[1:47:12] They really don't.
[1:47:13] Even now when there's evening events,
[1:47:16] many of our people elect to stay on the street parking.
[1:47:19] At night, there's ample parking on the street.
[1:47:22] There's not a problem at all.
[1:47:23] There are people who just want to leave earlier.
[1:47:25] they don't want to have to wait for the parking lot empties so that should not present a problem
[1:47:30] whatsoever. So obviously we would like you to really affirm this. Thank you so much for your
[1:47:36] support. Thank you. The next speaker is Sharon Richter.
[1:47:50] Thank you commissioners. I first of all
[1:47:53] I've worked with some of you before and I want to thank you for your commitment to housing justice.
[1:47:59] I am the pastor at Trinity Lutheran Church, which was the church that first came to advocate
[1:48:07] for safe parking in association with making housing and community happen.
[1:48:12] We are the ones that advocated to change the law.
[1:48:16] And so I'm very, very well acquainted with the law, which contrary to what has been stated,
[1:48:20] it. Safe parking is only allowed on religious property that is commercially zoned. So that
[1:48:29] is a requirement that it be commercially zoned. We have an L-shaped lot, and half of it is
[1:48:35] residential, half of it is commercial, and our safe parkers are only allowed to park in the
[1:48:42] same parking lot on the arm that is zoned commercial. So that is not an impediment or anything
[1:48:50] that makes this program illegal. We've operated the program for more than four years and in
[1:48:56] that time we have had zero police calls related to our safe parkers but we have had safe
[1:49:05] parkers who have reported on things they've seen in the neighborhood. The police were
[1:49:11] at our church yesterday speaking to one of the safe parkers who was a witness to something
[1:49:17] in the neighborhood. Having those folks there is a protective thing for the neighborhood.
[1:49:23] It is because they keep an eye on things. They are people who used to be a part of a neighborhood
[1:49:29] in a home that they owned or that they worked in this neighborhood and so they have commitment
[1:49:36] to Pasadena. So in the time that we've operated this safe parking program, we've housed 17 people
[1:49:44] so far. These folks I wanted to speak to who safe parkers are. There's this idea which
[1:49:52] some of the other speakers have spoken about that they are mentally ill or they are drug
[1:49:57] addicts or they have some
[1:50:00] Criminal background. But these are responsible people who have jobs, most of them, who have fallen on hard times, and they lost their home, they lost their job, they lost their health insurance, they divorced, and now, and one of our parkers was a victim of the eaten fire. So when you say that you're going to make people park on, you know, some dark street somewhere where it's not safe, you're sending a person there who lost their home in the fire.
[1:50:29] You're sending people who are most of them are women, most of them are over 70 and about 10% of them are disabled.
[1:50:39] So think about who it is you're saying should not have a well-lighted patrol parking lot, but rather should park somewhere in the dark
[1:50:49] where nobody can help them when they need it. Thank you very much.
[1:50:53] Pastor Richter, I have a clarifying question for you.
[1:50:57] You said that you've helped 17 people.
[1:51:00] We have housed 17 people.
[1:51:03] Oh, housed, so not 17 parkers over four years.
[1:51:06] No, we have 10 spaces.
[1:51:08] And over the four years, it wasn't always permitted.
[1:51:12] I'll just have to say that.
[1:51:14] But it has been permitted for the last two years.
[1:51:17] So in that time, we've housed 17 people.
[1:51:21] I see.
[1:51:22] Thank you.
[1:51:25] Okay, our next speaker is Flora Nye.
[1:51:36] Good evening everyone, my name is Flora Nooy.
[1:51:40] I'm the property manager of the Plaza Las Fuentes, right across the street at 135 North-West Robles.
[1:51:47] I'm here to support our business tenants, Eastwood Spank, Alexander Stakehouse, and
[1:51:52] Weston Hotel to oppose to this program.
[1:51:55] They are here as well, and they will raise their concerns and shortly you'll hear from them.
[1:52:00] Thank you. Thank you. The next speaker is John Blayswith.
[1:52:10] Good evening. I live at the corner
[1:52:15] of Colorado and Euclid. Just a few little points and clarification. I'm also a member
[1:52:23] of the Homeowners Association and our, one of our main concerns is that the services and
[1:52:29] security. Oh and by the way I'm a I agree with the merits of the proposal but our concern
[1:52:37] is that the services and security are not sufficient for the proposal and then just some
[1:52:44] clarification that primarily no more than 25 occupants, never more than 25 vehicles that any
[1:52:54] the egress in the evening would only be by vehicle. They have to stay in their car. And
[1:53:01] then, of course, in terms of security and services in the morning. One of our challenges
[1:53:09] is with our homeless neighbors is the use of public fountains, both off of Euclid and
[1:53:17] on Colorado Boulevard. That's one of our challenges that we're working on right now. And I think
[1:53:24] I think I heard that there might be some shower facilities in the morning, as people
[1:53:30] leave the facility, but basically that the services that and the security are not enough
[1:53:40] for the proposal.
[1:53:44] Thank you.
[1:53:46] And our last speaker is Jill Schuck.
[1:53:57] Good evening.
[1:53:57] My name is Jill Schuck and I'm with making housing a community happen.
[1:54:01] And we've been helping to work with congregations that want to solve the homeless and housing crisis.
[1:54:11] We started researching best practices around safe parking.
[1:54:15] We studied safe parking sites throughout California.
[1:54:19] And then we put together a program and we've been evaluating it ever since.
[1:54:24] pastor Richter was gracious to use her church facility which is not far from
[1:54:30] here and it's been exciting. I'm going to tell you two stories. One is a church I've
[1:54:39] been working with on North Ferrofe's pastor Stewart at the new Guiding Light
[1:54:43] Missionary Baptist Church called me one day and said I've been ministering to
[1:54:50] some folks living in their cars and I really enjoy getting to know them and
[1:54:55] they've started coming to church but I looked out my window today and
[1:55:00] And I saw the Pasadena Police tow their cars away. So their only home they had was taken away from them because it is not legal to be on the streets in this city. We need a legal place where people can safely be. I'm going to tell you a second story about Suzanne, who's become a good friend of mine, who was a safe parker. She went to USC. She's very smart, lovely woman. She just fell on hard times mostly through health issues. And now she's fully
[1:55:29] housed, and it's been a joy to get to know her. The permit was very interesting when
[1:55:39] we were trying to get the conditional use permit, because it became very evident exactly
[1:55:44] what Pastor Rector just said, that it became evident that safe parkers were actually part
[1:55:52] of the solution. They're the ones that had eyes on the street that were keeping the
[1:55:57] neighborhood safe.
[1:56:00] Another point is that the the success rate. So, if you look at the
[1:56:08] success rate, we have had no calls in four years, zero, no calls. And secondly, we are just
[1:56:19] so proud that we're seeing people get housed and they have hope and they have lives and
[1:56:26] have jobs. So I'm going to close with this and just ask a question. I'd like you to think about
[1:56:33] those people that are struggling trying to find some place in this city where they can park
[1:56:40] that are living in their cars. They could be a brother, a sister, a friend of mine in Lakhanyada.
[1:56:47] He learned that his wives and the gal that came to do the nails that she was living in her car.
[1:56:54] You never know who it might be, people we see and encounter every day.
[1:56:59] And so what's better to have a safe place for them?
[1:57:04] What about all the students at PCC, 20% of those students are experienced homelessness?
[1:57:12] What a better place to have students here that can be safe and be on the path they're getting
[1:57:18] housed.
[1:57:18] Thank you, Ms. Shook.
[1:57:19] Thank you for your time.
[1:57:21] Thank you.
[1:57:26] Okay.
[1:57:26] Okay, I actually would like to ask a question of our second appellant, Jennifer Erickson.
[1:57:33] Are you still here?
[1:57:35] Would you mind coming up to the mic?
[1:57:38] I appreciated your very brief comments, but also sounded very hopeful that if given
[1:57:43] more time, I was going to ask are you in communication at all with our first appellant group, the Maryland?
[1:57:49] So I believe...
[1:57:52] or the applicants, the applicant as well.
[1:57:56] Could this all get worked out?
[1:57:57] And I wouldn't say 45 days, maybe a week,
[1:58:00] but are you hopeful that something could happen?
[1:58:04] Certainly.
[1:58:04] We have not been contacted by the applicant.
[1:58:07] We reached out to the Maryland just
[1:58:09] to see where their thoughts were at initially.
[1:58:12] When we sort of just learned about the project,
[1:58:14] but we would love to sit down with all the folks, applicant,
[1:58:18] city, and find a solution.
[1:58:21] Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. Let's see where our discussion goes. Thank you.
[1:58:26] Sure. Absolutely. Jennifer, there's one more question from Board Member.
[1:58:31] I'm not really clear what your objections are. So there have been a number of concerns that have been raised in letters and comments.
[1:58:42] And so we're wondering if there's additional conditions of approval that might satisfy both parties.
[1:58:48] But still make this operational and workable for all saints, such as the lack of security
[1:58:56] or facilities, things like that.
[1:59:00] Okay.
[1:59:01] Thank you.
[1:59:02] Yeah.
[1:59:07] Okay.
[1:59:07] Now as are the public hearing.
[1:59:09] We'll close public comment unless there were any last minute cards.
[1:59:12] Oh, revettled.
[1:59:13] Sorry.
[1:59:13] Yes.
[1:59:14] I'm forgetting my script.
[1:59:16] So I guess, do we go in the same order?
[1:59:19] So, I guess there is now time for rebuttal, so we can start with Mr. Nard Doney, and I think we're doing five minutes each on the rebuttal.
[1:59:33] Well, thank you for the time that you've already taken to listen carefully to the things that have been said.
[1:59:39] But I'm really quite surprised to hear that I don't recall, I don't think anyone from
[1:59:48] the Maryland has described the potential users of this program as mentally ill or dangerous
[1:59:54] or anything like that.
[1:59:56] We think that it's not the right use of the property of the
[2:00:00] You're not saying all homeless people are somehow not worthy of being helped, but this is not the form or the place for the help. And so I urge, again, the board to regard its role and purpose seriously. It may very well be that the Episcopal Church wants all of its member parishes to use their facilities, but to help homeless people. But that doesn't mean that that
[2:00:29] That moral injunction overrides the city's laws, and the law here is quite clear that a commercial property is not available for using for a safe parking program.
[2:00:45] I'm sorry to disagree with Pastor Richter, but I believe that she's an error in saying that the property at Trinity Lutheran is not a religious facility.
[2:00:55] It is zoned as a religious facility and that is the reason that it is permissible for
[2:01:02] the safe parking program there to be operated.
[2:01:07] I would also note that it's been remarkable the number of people who came from other
[2:01:14] places, not Pasadena residents.
[2:01:16] In fact it was notable that only two people who spoken support of the application mentioned
[2:01:21] that they live in the city of Pasadena.
[2:01:23] Most of the people or many of them, I don't know, all of them seem to be coming from someplace else.
[2:01:31] Again, our concern is that this is a program that is being visited upon our neighborhood
[2:01:37] by people who don't live in our neighborhood.
[2:01:40] And as I said earlier, there is serious concern about the ability of all saints to properly operate this program.
[2:01:48] now we've heard from Mel who operates the shower of hope what he made out of
[2:01:54] told you is that the city of Los Angeles has recently defunded the shower
[2:01:59] of hope from many of their programs that they were funding for them and I'm
[2:02:04] wondering whether or not we're going to see a situation in which their financial
[2:02:08] ability to monitor and operate this program will be drawn into question but
[2:02:14] But even if aside from that, the simple question is, simply, is this?
[2:02:20] This property is not a religious facility, and therefore it is outside the boundaries
[2:02:27] of the ability of this board or anyone to authorize the operation of a safe parking program
[2:02:35] there.
[2:02:36] And I urge you to follow the law rather than be influenced only by your own personal
[2:02:43] views of what is good public policy or what is the moral thing to do. All of those things
[2:02:49] are legitimate for us to exercise in our individual lives, but this board is charged with enforcing
[2:02:55] the laws of the city of Pasadena. Thank you. Thank you. Jennifer, do you have any other
[2:03:15] I would like to add one thing this is more a little bit outside of this program and thank
[2:03:24] you for bringing up the fact we were defunded but that was program within the city of Los Angeles
[2:03:29] that Los Angeles is facing cuts but that is not going to affect our budget in
[2:03:37] how we're going to provide for the city of Pasadena. And I want to give you an
[2:03:42] example. All of you have like Jill mentioned, all of you have heard of homeless
[2:03:48] us within Pasadena City College, right? Do you know the one only program that is
[2:03:55] day to support homeless community college students, I operate that program. I
[2:04:02] operate it through funding. It's technically in all the Dina. We have 18
[2:04:06] bed 16 students, all of whom go to Pasadena City College. The reason I say this
[2:04:13] is if you're questioning mine or the people who came here to support to speak on
[2:04:18] our behalf of our stake in Pasadena. I'm talking about 16, 18 to 24-year-olds who are living
[2:04:26] right now on Sierra Vista in our program. So that's our commitment to you. We are not getting
[2:04:35] any funding from the city of Pasadena. We're not getting any funding from Pasadena City College.
[2:04:41] But right now today, 16 students have a place to stay. Not because of me, because of those people
[2:04:48] who came to speak because of other people who want to make a difference. For us, it doesn't
[2:04:55] matter if it's in our backyard or not. These are still our people.
[2:05:00] When eaten happened, so many people are displaced. It can happen to anyone. Right now the biggest fear that's making people homeless is artificial intelligence. Because you don't know when they can come in and take you all every penny you own. It can happen to anyone. We are here to prove and we have a track record. You can Google the show of hope. You won't find anything negative other than multiple positive news articles about what we do to show that us.
[2:05:28] With the perseverance of Pasadim, Eric and everyone else here from all saints is going
[2:05:34] to give support to the people of Pasadina.
[2:05:37] Like Daniel said, 2025 isn't easy.
[2:05:40] And if there is a Pasadinian who's on our streets who needs a place for a week or a month
[2:05:47] to stay safe while they get back on their feet, we're willing to be there.
[2:05:52] So thank you for your time.
[2:05:55] Thank you very much.
[2:05:56] Yes,
[2:06:00] now we can go into deliberation or additional questions from the board members.
[2:06:03] Yeah, this question from staff.
[2:06:05] So all things has three parcels that are conjoined.
[2:06:10] They're all owned by the same property owner.
[2:06:12] And is the zoning consistent through all those three?
[2:06:16] It's P.S.
[2:06:19] So all three are the same.
[2:06:21] Yeah, that's correct.
[2:06:22] The zoning for all three properties are P.S., and that's public, same as my public zoning
[2:06:26] district.
[2:06:26] Okay.
[2:06:26] Okay, thank you very much.
[2:06:29] If I may add one thing, Jenny O'Reilly Jones from the City housing department here has
[2:06:34] offered to address some of the costs and things, Jenny, would you like to point out?
[2:06:39] Well, let me ask my fellow board members if we want that.
[2:06:44] Does anyone have specific questions about cost or what the city has invested in this?
[2:06:49] No.
[2:06:49] But thank you for offering.
[2:06:50] Thank you.
[2:06:51] Thank you.
[2:06:53] So deliberation?
[2:06:54] Deliberation? Deliberation, but has your question been answered clearly in terms of, but maybe
[2:06:59] for clarification, Allison, that the zoning matches the way the ordinance or the zoning
[2:07:06] code was revised to allow the use. I want to be mindful. We have shaking heads, but just
[2:07:13] to be clear, we have our city attorney here to clarify anything, but it seems to be a major
[2:07:18] point of contention of whether or not this use is even allowed on this property. So maybe
[2:07:23] and we should answer that first.
[2:07:24] And I also have another ancillary question to that.
[2:07:27] Is that parking for that use is also included?
[2:07:32] So whether you have the chapel where the parking light is
[2:07:36] or the parking is underground doesn't make any difference
[2:07:39] because you have to provide parking.
[2:07:41] That's correct.
[2:07:42] All the uses are required to have parking
[2:07:45] and a site can consist of multiple parcels.
[2:07:50] Which you've seen this.
[2:07:51] Okay, thank you.
[2:07:53] Chair, I'd like to tease out a few questions with staff and council.
[2:07:59] The first page of the staff report is,
[2:08:01] provides the recommendations, which is 0.1 and 0.2.
[2:08:04] And I'd like to start with 0.1, the SQL review.
[2:08:07] All projects are subject to SQL review,
[2:08:12] except with a long, lottery list of exemptions.
[2:08:14] And the exemptions being applied here is Section 15301.
[2:08:19] I'll just read it out loud quickly, exempts from environmental review, the operation repair maintenance, permitting leasing, licensing, or minor alteration of existing public or private structure facilities, mechanical equipment that continues on for a second.
[2:08:34] Could you all apply the facts for me that shows that this exemption is accurate?
[2:08:43] I'm sorry, well, could you apply the facts of this case to show why this exemption applies?
[2:08:49] Yes, that's correct because the existing site is a parking lot and it's being used as a parking lot.
[2:08:58] There's no expansion of any facilities in terms of additions to the religious facilities.
[2:09:07] So that's why it is applicable to have class one exemption applied to this project.
[2:09:17] I'm sorry about the loudness there, California Code of Regulations 15301 is the existing facilities exemption and that states class 1 consists of operation repair maintenance permitting, so this is a permitting minor alteration of existing public or private structures facilities involving negligible or no expansion of existing or former use.
[2:09:44] use, the key consideration is whether the project involves negligible or no expansion of
[2:09:51] use, and then examples include, but are not limited to, and a few examples down, existing
[2:09:58] highways in streets, sidewalks,
[2:10:02] So, I think there's a reasonable inference that a parking lot falls within that listing of examples.
[2:10:15] Okay. And I just try to get them trying to tease us out and make sure that this exemption covers this. So, from what I'm hearing from you is parking to parking is the same. We have cars that are parking from seven to seven during the day. And now we're going to have cars parking. So, we're going to have cars parking.
[2:10:31] from 7 to 7 during the night. And that is the same use that makes a qualify under this exemption.
[2:10:38] That's correct. And also the religious facility does use the parking lot at night currently,
[2:10:44] so that's baseline. And based on that, the additional 24 cars coming in at night is not
[2:10:53] significant expansion of the use of the parking lot. In fact, it's likely fewer cars that are
[2:10:58] during the day. That's an inference and I didn't actually track that
[2:11:03] personally. Okay, thank you. That's the first part of the legal part of this
[2:11:09] kind of what I want to work through if that's okay with the rest of the
[2:11:12] account. Can I clarify something on the point you're raising? Yes, please.
[2:11:15] Which is there isn't some other standard if the vehicle is occupied is there? Is
[2:11:23] that taken into account in the environment that someone is sleeping in this
[2:11:27] car, not that I'm aware of. I mean, it should be noted, during the day, there are more
[2:11:34] cars going in and out of that lot because they're going to and from court appearances.
[2:11:39] I'm assuming, whereas there would be fewer in and out driving trips theoretically at night.
[2:11:48] A traffic perspective.
[2:11:49] That's correct.
[2:11:50] There might also be an assumption that some overworked attorneys might take a nap in their
[2:11:55] car. It's not going to sound as well. Can I ask a related question? Does
[2:12:01] Palestinian prohibit overnight parking on private property?
[2:12:06] Non-private property. Okay. So this is private we're dealing with private
[2:12:10] property. And to some extent, somebody could park at all saints overnight and
[2:12:17] sleep in their car if it's on private property and the property owner is
[2:12:20] agreeable, isn't that true?
[2:12:27] Yeah.
[2:12:27] I mean, theoretically, right?
[2:12:30] Or if you swapped instead of having the safe parking
[2:12:34] where the court parking is now, and you swapped it,
[2:12:37] and you had it in the other side,
[2:12:38] it wouldn't really make any difference, would it?
[2:12:41] I mean, in terms of whether they're
[2:12:43] allowed to, whether they would be exempt from sequa,
[2:12:46] and also an MCUP would be applicable, right?
[2:12:51] That's correct.
[2:12:52] But you know the program itself the safe parking program people sleep in the car that requires the MCUP
[2:12:58] Right. Yes, but I also wanted to point out in terms of
[2:13:02] existing facilities and baseline
[2:13:05] There is
[2:13:07] Ensuring to your point about people sleeping the cars and if that's going to
[2:13:12] Have an impact in the environment based on baseline. There is already existing homeless services provider at the at the
[2:13:20] the site, and therefore that's existing baseline.
[2:13:24] And so by allowing this additional service,
[2:13:28] it's not an expansion of the use,
[2:13:30] a significant expansion of the use.
[2:13:35] Thank you very much now,
[2:13:36] I'd like to continue on to the second part
[2:13:37] of just going through the actual following,
[2:13:40] the text of the law.
[2:13:42] I know we've already said it once before,
[2:13:44] but I would like to go through again on this commercial,
[2:13:48] property zoning, what is and is not allowed with the code, if you could just go through
[2:13:55] one more time with me, I would greatly appreciate it.
[2:13:58] That's what I keep hearing commercial property religious property and all that being thrown
[2:14:03] around, that's why I want to understand exactly what the code section that authorizes this
[2:14:10] says which parcels which zoning it's allowed for.
[2:14:13] Okay, so safe parking is permitted. Let me actually just read the code section on
[2:14:32] parcels and
[2:14:38] bail in as you're looking for this is the zoning code that was amended was a 2023
[2:14:45] to allow for this safe program. That's right. And I know that came to our commission. Many of us
[2:14:51] We're on the planning commission. I know Michael wasn't with many of us were and then our recommendation went on to city council who then
[2:15:00] Would have debated it and had hearings. I don't know if any of the appellants were part of that. I think we amended the zoning code, didn't we? We did. We did. We did. But it went through a pretty lengthy process. We did. We just didn't just sort of appear. I don't know where. And then the city adopted it. And now we have the second project. Right.
[2:15:27] I'm sorry. I'm looking for the language in the zoning code that talks about Allison is there any way to pull that up on your screen? No. No.
[2:15:38] We remodeled the room for all this new tech.
[2:15:42] Yeah, unfortunately, I don't have access to a laptop up here.
[2:15:45] But the zoning code does specify that the safe parking use is not allowed in residential areas.
[2:15:55] So once Balan is able to find that language, that is the specific item that distinguishes safe parking.
[2:16:05] and so with the Trinity case, there was a portion of the Trinity site that is
[2:16:13] is zoned residential, which was that northern portion of the lot, the pastor
[2:16:18] Richter referred to, whereas the southern portion of the lot is zoned
[2:16:23] commercial. The All Saints case is a bit different in that the entire property as
[2:16:29] bail in the zoning administrator alluded to, the entire All Saints Church site is zoned
[2:16:37] public semi-public, which is not a commercial zone and it's also not a residential zone,
[2:16:44] but it is a zone in which safe parking is allowed in association with a religious facility
[2:16:51] with a minor conditional use permit. But of course the zoning code text I think can explain that
[2:16:58] as well, but essentially what it boils down to is safe parking is not allowed in residential
[2:17:03] zones, but it could be allowed in commercial or public semi-public zones according to
[2:17:09] the code.
[2:17:10] That's correct.
[2:17:11] So, where in the code it says that religious facilities, where safe parking is permitted, is
[2:17:17] in the PS zoning district and news table, it says the safe parking is permitted with a minor
[2:17:24] inter-conditional use permit in association with a religious facility.
[2:17:30] For us, a religious facility is the entire site, so it's not a parcel itself, where the
[2:17:37] sanctuary is.
[2:17:40] As Commissioner Delgado mentioned, parking is required for different uses, so a lot of
[2:17:46] times parking could happen in a different parcel.
[2:17:49] So the city's zoning code also has a definition for site, which we added to the staff report that states that site means a lot of group of contiguous
[2:18:08] slots not divided by any alley, street, other right-of-way or city limit that is proposed
[2:18:16] for development in a court with the provisions of the zoning code and is in a single ownership
[2:18:23] or has multiple owners all of whom join in an application for development.
[2:18:29] There has been an argument that this is not a development because there is nothing no
[2:18:35] So construction proposed the definition of development in the zoning code says any construction
[2:18:43] activity or alteration of the landscape, its terrain contour or vegetation, including
[2:18:50] the erection or alteration of structures.
[2:18:53] New development is any construction or alteration of an existing structure or land use or establishment
[2:19:02] of a land use.
[2:19:04] So the establishment of a safe parking use is considered a development under the zoning code.
[2:19:11] And therefore, this MCUP is permitted to be applied on to the site because it does contain
[2:19:18] a religious facility and parking is part of the religious facility.
[2:19:22] Thank you very much.
[2:19:23] That's exactly what I was looking for was just going through that step by step on how you got
[2:19:28] to where you got to.
[2:19:29] Thank you very much.
[2:19:30] Thank you.
[2:19:31] Well, and I think I would just add, I mean, when the whole concept of creating a safe
[2:19:36] parking ordinance, if you will, came into play or amending the zoning code, I think it
[2:19:42] was fairly obvious or known that the parking lot of the church would be used for the parking.
[2:19:49] We didn't get this flashy Richard Meyer project that was going to be a few years ago, but it's
[2:19:54] a parking lot.
[2:19:54] Well obviously for some it's not obvious for all maybe that would have been underground parking
[2:20:00] That was going to have underground parking, exactly.
[2:20:04] Okay, so. Discussion? Yes, please.
[2:20:11] I think I want to start out, and I'm sorry if I'm all over the place here, but this is an issue that's sort of near and dear to me. We've been working hard in Pasadena having been on the mayor's housing task force and looking how to end homelessness in our city. I just keep thinking about the morning of January 8th,
[2:20:32] when there were over 40,000 people that were homeless,
[2:20:36] immediately in Al-Tedina and Pasadena.
[2:20:39] And some of those people are still living in their cars
[2:20:42] and they still need that kind of safety.
[2:20:45] And I think what surprises me about this application
[2:20:49] is not that it's getting some opposition
[2:20:52] because of course the words homelessness always
[2:20:55] raise issues and concerns.
[2:20:58] And it's sometimes misused.
[2:21:00] but that there aren't more religious facilities that have stepped up to the plate to provide safe housing.
[2:21:07] It's essential in transitioning to a better form of life.
[2:21:16] Nobody chooses to really live in their car, but at least they have the possibility of being in their car.
[2:21:26] So I don't want to be emotional about this, but we're living in times that showed us that a huge population can become homeless and become in need of safe housing in a matter of a few hours overnight.
[2:21:41] So I want to support staff, the initial recommendation.
[2:21:49] I support the hearing officer's analysis.
[2:21:52] As a planner, as a fellow of the American Institute of Certified Planner, I see no fault.
[2:21:58] In any of the reasoning, I'm purely planning kinds of issues.
[2:22:03] And so I'm in support of moving this forward and upholding the hearing officer's findings.
[2:22:10] And just to clarify your comments, are you okay with condition 12 and Allison?
[2:22:17] Are we clear on, is everyone clear on what that is?
[2:22:19] Yeah, and conditions for restrooms.
[2:22:21] Yes, to have the port of potty and I understand that the hearing officer was fine with that.
[2:22:26] And so having a separate port of potty for that, the shared parking, is that Allison?
[2:22:35] Maybe you can clarify.
[2:22:36] Is that the amended, have two port of potties?
[2:22:39] not one shared staff has a recommended condition of approval to have an indoor
[2:22:47] restroom for the Safe Haven program which we can show on the PowerPoint so
[2:22:52] that's staff's recommended revised condition 12 but of course the Board of
[2:22:58] Zoning Appeals has the ability to recommend different language for
[2:23:02] condition 12 which could be multiple portable restrooms or some other
[2:23:09] configuration. But staff's position or the the impetus was to have separate
[2:23:15] restrooms. Yeah, yeah, right. I mean that that was like sort of from the
[2:23:21] beginning and the third applicant, the third appellant, all say instead it would be too
[2:23:27] expensive. Right, that you could do a port-a-potty for the shared parking. And I don't
[2:23:32] know if we should discuss their existing homeless project that's not what
[2:23:38] what we're looking at tonight, but they have indoor facilities for that project and that's
[2:23:44] up to them to work that through.
[2:23:47] So staff actually, the staff's recommendation is for safe haven to use an indoor restroom
[2:23:55] facility that's either in the trailer or inside the church.
[2:24:00] However, if the board of zoning appeals believe that a second port of party is sufficient instead
[2:24:07] of an indoor existing bathroom facility. That is something that we could specify.
[2:24:14] I would be in favor of that since it would be a burden on the church to have to have
[2:24:18] everything in the indoor as they had said it's over $100,000 in their costs. So to have
[2:24:24] that one dedicated porta-potty in the proposed safe parking area seems to be the most logical
[2:24:32] and I think the zoning administrator, the hearing officer, was okay with that.
[2:24:38] It says that in the staff report.
[2:24:42] Maybe a clarifying question for all saints, the people that are in the safe haven program,
[2:24:48] are they like in at a certain hour and don't leave until a certain hour, or are they free to come and go?
[2:24:54] I think we heard a little bit from the Maryland home owners that maybe there was too much time.
[2:25:00] And safe haven may not get their sleeping gear out of their locker until 10 p.m., and it must be placed back in their locker by 7 a.m. Do they need to be there at a particular time? Let's say midnight, no, when they arrive is up to them, but the gate by their locker is locked so they would have to get their stuff out of their locker and walk around. So typically people do arrive by and get their things, they're sleeping things out by 10 p.m.
[2:25:30] I see, but then they don't necessarily like set their sleeping gear up and then go out of the property and come back.
[2:25:38] It is that that's possible.
[2:25:40] But it is possible to do that.
[2:25:41] It's not common though from what I see and I do, by the way, check on security cameras all the time at the activity,
[2:25:49] especially at those hours, just to see what's going on.
[2:25:52] And typically people do put their things out at 10 o'clock and hunker down to go to sleep.
[2:25:57] Thank you for the certification.
[2:26:01] I was regarding the sleeping area.
[2:26:06] Do they sleep outdoors?
[2:26:07] They're out sort in the colonnade.
[2:26:09] They're not sleeping indoors in any way.
[2:26:12] I think they're in the colonnated area.
[2:26:15] The colonnated is where?
[2:26:17] Well, it's on the map.
[2:26:18] Is it on the map?
[2:26:19] You can see it on the map.
[2:26:21] What is that?
[2:26:22] That's where they sleep.
[2:26:23] It's a covered area.
[2:26:24] It's a covered area.
[2:26:25] It's where you was a walking path.
[2:26:27] Basically, it's going from one building to another at the church, and it's just covered.
[2:26:32] I've been there, I just wanted to make sure that's...
[2:26:34] I have another call.
[2:26:34] We could walk over there if you want.
[2:26:35] I see you.
[2:26:36] I know.
[2:26:39] I can ask another question.
[2:26:41] Of course.
[2:26:41] Okay.
[2:26:42] That has to do with the building as of the corner of Walnut and Euclid.
[2:26:46] Is that owned by the church, and what is that used for?
[2:26:51] We learned that earlier, but you can answer it with the Euclid and Euclid and Euclid and
[2:26:54] the Euclid and the Euclid and the Euclid and the Euclid and the Euclid and the Euclid.
[2:27:00] is property owned by the church. Is there anybody this people do people sleep there or is it you?
[2:27:05] No, no, no. There's there's stuff churches have a way of collecting stuff. There's stuff in there
[2:27:14] but it's not used. It's not used in any way. Is there a bathroom facility there? No.
[2:27:20] Okay, thank you.
[2:27:26] Do we need them?
[2:27:31] I think we still need to talk about whether or not a single porta-party for both programs
[2:27:38] is sufficient because it sounded like the, currently the porta-party is the one that's
[2:27:46] in this slot, the blue thing is what the Safe Haven people are using.
[2:27:54] And so the, if I understood it correctly, the All Saints suggestion was that the safe
[2:28:03] haven and the safe parking, people would use the same one.
[2:28:08] No.
[2:28:09] Where's this, where, because the other ones that are shown are indoors and All Saints
[2:28:14] have said that is not sufficient.
[2:28:16] All Saints talked about a way to get to that port of potty by not having to go on Euclid,
[2:28:23] which made a lot of sense.
[2:28:25] But I didn't see where that second port of party
[2:28:28] was going to be located.
[2:28:30] I clarify that for you.
[2:28:32] So this plan before you is basically
[2:28:38] a result of the hearing officer decision letter
[2:28:41] with clarification after that hearing officer
[2:28:45] Addendum was received prior to this meeting.
[2:28:49] Essentially, there was no longer the need
[2:28:52] for those two light blue indoor restrooms and instead the location of the
[2:29:01] safe parking restroom would be in the safe parking area and the red toilet and
[2:29:10] hand wash station that's labeled would remain as part of safe haven because that is
[2:29:15] what's currently approved for safe haven and so essentially if if the
[2:29:21] the Florida zone appeals would like to have the condition tonight, just be something
[2:29:27] like water, trash, and restroom facility shall be provided, maintained and accessible
[2:29:33] to clients during safe parking facility hours, and modify that to say something about shall
[2:29:39] be secured locked and equipped with key code mechanism, like the language you can see
[2:29:48] on the third line of the recommended condition here, that would basically allow two potential
[2:29:56] restrooms, why each site without needing any...
[2:30:00] Any change essentially to the safe haven current operations? And is the proposal for the safe parking
[2:30:10] area to have a hand wash station as well? Yes. It was just mentioned port-a-potty, which
[2:30:17] is not so the same as one of the hand wash stations. Yes, as you can see on this. This one
[2:30:23] it says it differently, yeah. Yeah, this one shows port-a-potty and hand wash station.
[2:30:27] So this was the original proposal from all Saints going into the hearing officer meeting
[2:30:35] prior to the revised condition of approval where the hearing officer required the indoor facility.
[2:30:42] So now the hearing officer is okay with this as long as it's locked.
[2:30:48] Exactly. Yes. Thank you for clarifying.
[2:30:51] Wait, so just having one but it's locked and it's shared by both uses.
[2:30:56] No, just for shared parking, this is just for the parking area.
[2:31:01] Oh, okay, so that would be two.
[2:31:03] Separate facilities.
[2:31:04] Separate two separate areas.
[2:31:06] There are still either red ones that you saw on the last slide.
[2:31:09] And does the current staff recommendation have a review period in it?
[2:31:18] We do not have a recommended condition of approval for six months or 12 months review, but
[2:31:24] that the border zone you feel can add.
[2:31:26] It feels like I do hear the concerns of the residents in the neighborhood, and I think
[2:31:37] that it makes sense to maybe take a look because it is a new program in that area in six
[2:31:44] months.
[2:31:46] I think two months is a little too soon, but six months might be enough time.
[2:31:53] Also, I am curious if we need to go all the way to the maximum capacity to start, or if
[2:32:01] it could build to that, just to see how it goes in terms of vehicles.
[2:32:10] I know there's within the code they could park RVs there, I don't know if that's the intent
[2:32:19] of the program, that to me would feel a little bit different as a neighbor, I think, to have RVs.
[2:32:28] We're just taking that out and putting in a condition that there are no RVs and campers.
[2:32:33] They're just single vehicles.
[2:32:36] In a lot of liberation time, we have not had that conversation, so I'm bringing it up during this time.
[2:32:42] Okay, good.
[2:32:43] We're waiting to see if that is something that we would want to specify.
[2:32:48] I don't think that's a condition at the other safe parking place, but also that they don't have as much room, right?
[2:32:57] Yeah, so at Trinity, there is a condition that says no RVs.
[2:33:02] Okay, so yes.
[2:33:04] So I think that would be one to consider the six month review,
[2:33:14] implementation on RVs at this point. And then a question of, you know, do we start at the maximum or
[2:33:22] build to the maximum after a period of time? I would agree with no RVs, no campers. That's just
[2:33:30] limited to single vehicles. I'm not so sure about the six months because at any time if there's a
[2:33:38] The problem, the Zoni Administrator, can call this for review, so that's open indefinitely
[2:33:44] the way the conditions have been applied.
[2:33:48] I think the project, when we heard from Mel, that even though you could have 25 cars,
[2:33:55] most people, you know, there are couples that are in their cars, you may just have half of
[2:34:00] those.
[2:34:01] I think we should let them, I think we should let the operator who knows what they're doing
[2:34:05] do what they do and let them operate the program as they've designed it.
[2:34:12] So it's designed for 25 vehicles or 25 occupants, and I'm fine with that.
[2:34:17] And if there is a problem, it can be called up at any time.
[2:34:22] And could staff clarify what brings the problem to their attention versus a formal time limit
[2:34:30] for review?
[2:34:31] If we do get a lot of complaints or if we do find that there are a lot of violations
[2:34:37] of the conditions of approval, the hearing, the zone administrator can call up the CUP
[2:34:44] for review, it could be either a modification to the conditional use permit or it could be
[2:34:50] a hearing to revoke the CUP and you'll be in a notice public hearing.
[2:34:56] Is there a threshold though, who we establish a threshold of?
[2:35:00] It's like if we get more than 10 complaints or something that are substantive, not just that
[2:35:06] oh, I saw a homeless person walking by and I, you know, whatever. But 10 substantial kinds
[2:35:12] of complaints that are violations of conditions of approval that would trigger a call for review.
[2:35:17] You could add a condition of such, but the zoning code is open in terms of exactly up to the
[2:35:25] the ZAs discretion went to call it up to review.
[2:35:28] So I wasn't clear on that when I'm sorry.
[2:35:31] What did you say at the very end of that?
[2:35:33] Oh, that the zoning code is open in terms of leaving it up
[2:35:37] to the zoning administrators discretion
[2:35:39] of when an item should be called up for review
[2:35:42] and revocation or modification.
[2:35:45] What did I was thinking about going back to the six month review?
[2:35:48] Because that would be at a public hearing
[2:35:50] and that would give the homeowners an opportunity
[2:35:54] to speak to what their experiences are versus maybe they don't have to call up and call
[2:35:59] you all the time. They could say this is what's happening. So there might be an assurance
[2:36:05] to them in a way that we've heard them and we're looking to see if we can resolve some
[2:36:11] of their personal issues.
[2:36:13] But I also want to come to less discretionary and more unexpected date on a calendar.
[2:36:20] I agree.
[2:36:21] I was going to suggest that six months seems like a long time.
[2:36:25] What about three months?
[2:36:25] No.
[2:36:26] Two short?
[2:36:27] Two short.
[2:36:28] You have to establish the program and get people settled in and you have to get the
[2:36:32] neighborhood kind of used to seeing those cars there and what's going on too.
[2:36:37] And three month period is not much time.
[2:36:39] I don't think there's any precedent for that there so you should if we do six months or
[2:36:45] 12 months.
[2:36:45] I also wanted to ask if in another incident we had with the Maxwell House, we had a direct
[2:36:54] connection phone number of the operator or the head of the program with the neighbors.
[2:37:00] Could we have an arrangement like with Mel having the neighbors have his phone number if
[2:37:06] he was willing to do something like that, but as a way of communicating because 48 hours
[2:37:10] of you calling a hotline, somebody is going to do something, somebody else is going to do something
[2:37:14] Or as if you have somebody you can call directly, who is responsible, they can get back
[2:37:20] to them, but they can also give an assurance to the homeowner that we are responding to
[2:37:26] you.
[2:37:26] We hear you.
[2:37:29] Maybe I don't know if it's you, or if it's somebody else, who is the person who gets
[2:37:33] that phone call the middle of the night.
[2:37:35] But it is something we addressed before with the Maxwell House, the connection of the
[2:37:40] relationship, basically it's relationship that we're building, it's not just a
[2:37:45] number. Commissioner, so just to clarify, would you take a fax number? No, I'm
[2:37:50] getting up. You know, we've already approached multiple of the neighboring
[2:37:57] businesses. I'm more than happy to give them my email. I think if it's anything
[2:38:03] severe, again, we have that hotline on the program that they can call and if it is
[2:38:09] severe battle trigger call from onsite security directly to my cell phone.
[2:38:14] Yeah.
[2:38:15] But the otherwise your email is available?
[2:38:18] Absolutely.
[2:38:19] Okay.
[2:38:19] And then I think one of the conditions is that it's posted where you can call, it's posted
[2:38:24] on the site so that anybody can see that and they could take that number and the folks
[2:38:29] at Maryland could have that and they've met Mel now and they know who's, you know, they
[2:38:36] I know their neighbors at all say and says, well, right?
[2:38:41] Okay.
[2:38:44] So Carol, Commissioner Hernandez, just to clarify,
[2:38:49] condition number 11 does say I represent the level of the program
[2:38:53] responsible for the activities occurring on site
[2:38:56] shall be available during all hours of operation
[2:38:59] and be able to take and respond to calls.
[2:39:03] Response to the call shall be provided within a reasonable time,
[2:39:07] not to exceed 48 hours, and it does continue on to say that the name and telephone number
[2:39:14] of the individual owner or designated representative responsible shall be posted on a signed
[2:39:20] visible from the public quite a way on the premises in accordance with the city municipal
[2:39:27] code, kept on record in the office of the religious facility on the website for all things, and
[2:39:36] And this information shall also be furnished to the zoning administrator or any city official.
[2:39:43] So there is a way to requirement that the phone number and the name be furnished and
[2:39:47] post it on site.
[2:39:48] Is this sufficient?
[2:39:49] She'll address your concern.
[2:39:50] Okay.
[2:39:51] Is that would be his phone number and his email?
[2:39:54] Yeah.
[2:39:54] So would this condition suffice?
[2:39:56] Okay.
[2:39:57] Thank you.
[2:40:03] Any other questions, comments? Did you want to address back to your issue of the 40, the maybe a meeting of the AR people, AR? No, I don't know if we need to go there. No, it's not the same thing that the commissioners feel that board members, I should say board members feel that there's any.
[2:40:28] I think our charge is fairly clear. And if there are issues,
[2:40:32] If the residents have issues, there's ways to address them very, very clear ways to address them.
[2:40:46] So, can I move motion?
[2:40:47] Well, we need a motion unless there's further deliberation.
[2:40:50] No, I'll make a motion.
[2:40:51] Jennifer, do you want to make a motion?
[2:40:55] Okay, I'm going to move staff's recommendations with the following amendment on condition number 12
[2:41:03] that the second language that Alison showed us would be the language for
[2:41:09] condition number 12 that there's a port-a-potty dedicated in wash area dedicated
[2:41:14] for the shared parking area and they would have a key number whatever that
[2:41:19] language was and and and also staff's recommendation upholding the hearing
[2:41:26] officers 20 June 18th decision and finding that the project is exempt from
[2:41:32] of SIGWA, pursuant to the guidelines section 15301.
[2:41:40] Commissioner Delvado, I wanted to clarify for condition number 12, because the last sentence
[2:41:47] of condition 12, the way staff is recommending, does the participants from the safe haven
[2:41:53] temporary homeless shelter shall utilize a restroom inside the church facilities?
[2:41:58] So would you like to strike that sentence?
[2:42:01] No, I want to use the second one that Allison showed us on the screen that had a new, the new one, right?
[2:42:09] Can you put that back on the screen just so we're very clear here again.
[2:42:13] There's a new recommended condition number 12.
[2:42:18] Okay, that's that one.
[2:42:20] Recommended condition number 12.
[2:42:21] Water Trash and Restroom Facilities shall be provided, maintained, accessible to clients during safe parking facility.
[2:42:27] I was the portable resting facility.
[2:42:29] She'll be accessible to the safe parking program participants only.
[2:42:33] Participants of safe haven, temporary shall use the ones inside the church.
[2:42:37] So I want this language.
[2:42:40] So I just wanted to clarify that we are requiring the safe haven homeless participants to use
[2:42:45] a facility inside the church.
[2:42:48] Yeah, we'll read that.
[2:42:49] Right, which could also be an separate portapoddy.
[2:42:51] Right, it could be whatever because that's not part of the application.
[2:42:54] I think that it implies that it's an indoor facility and I think it needs to be reverted so that it can be an outdoor facility.
[2:43:04] It could, well, there is one outside but they would prefer to use the indoor one.
[2:43:09] There's no, they said no. They don't want to use the indoor one for the safe haven.
[2:43:14] They do not want to use the indoor one for the safe haven.
[2:43:17] That's what I've heard from that.
[2:43:19] So, maybe just modify the condition to be there's a separate restroom facility.
[2:43:23] for the safe haven and let them figure that out. Yes. Okay, thank you.
[2:43:31] So that was the only amendment to the staff recommendation.
[2:43:34] Right, but I did hear also an amendment that although I'm not in favor of it, so I'm
[2:43:41] not putting it in my motion.
[2:43:42] Well, whatever, what was it, who aren't you?
[2:43:45] Six month review, but I don't think we should go through the expense of a six month review
[2:43:51] if there's been no issues.
[2:43:54] Well, could we clarify that to be a six-month review but someone coming to us to tell us
[2:44:00] how great it's working out?
[2:44:03] Well, what are you thinking?
[2:44:05] Why would you want us to come in?
[2:44:07] I think that's different.
[2:44:08] I think it's a common condition in MCUP to have a six-month review.
[2:44:20] I think that that is reflected in our hearing from the neighbors, both residential and
[2:44:30] business owners, that they have concerns, and I think they deserve an opportunity to address those concerns formally.
[2:44:39] Is this expense review at the hearing officer level?
[2:44:42] It is and it's in the public notice hearing and we bring back the case, the project and
[2:44:52] we go over all the conditions and how the conditions have been working and or not working.
[2:45:00] agenda matter. And how the applicant has complied or not complied. So that's how the report and
[2:45:05] the presentation to the hearing officer would be. It's just a review of the operations,
[2:45:10] the conditions, are the conditions working, do they need to be modified or not? And
[2:45:15] only a only one six month review, it's not going to keep continuing. So that's hampering
[2:45:20] their their operations, right? If the condition is worthy, just the first six month review,
[2:45:26] than that would just be one.
[2:45:28] And then that would be up to the hearing officer
[2:45:29] then to make other further decisions.
[2:45:31] Well, the hearing officer can always call it
[2:45:34] for review at any time.
[2:45:35] So we haven't taken that away.
[2:45:37] The zoning code says that, correct?
[2:45:40] That's correct.
[2:45:40] So at any time, there's a problem.
[2:45:42] It could be in two months.
[2:45:44] It could be in, it could be out the six month review.
[2:45:46] And then in eight months, something happens,
[2:45:48] you can call it up again.
[2:45:50] But if you want to have a formal public hearing,
[2:45:52] it's six months, I'll go along
[2:45:56] with that if that's the consensus of my colleagues, but I would be a I think we should do it.
[2:46:01] Okay, I think so.
[2:46:02] Go ahead.
[2:46:03] And also, um, I actually heard the discussion about adding a condition about no RVs and
[2:46:10] companies.
[2:46:10] Right.
[2:46:11] Exactly.
[2:46:12] Yes, we're adding that as well.
[2:46:13] Yeah, that was the first one.
[2:46:14] That was the first condition.
[2:46:15] Yeah.
[2:46:16] So we need a second, unless there's anything else, a second, then we can deliberate more
[2:46:21] if you want.
[2:46:22] I don't know, is there any other things that anyone wanted to add?
[2:46:25] No.
[2:46:25] Do we have a second?
[2:46:26] No.
[2:46:27] I'll second it.
[2:46:28] Okay.
[2:46:28] Thank you.
[2:46:30] Deliveration on the motion.
[2:46:32] Is it clear?
[2:46:33] Mm-hmm.
[2:46:34] Anything to add?
[2:46:35] Yes.
[2:46:36] Why don't we do a roll call vote, Tony?
[2:46:39] Thank you.
[2:46:40] Commissioner Hickenmarkham?
[2:46:42] Yes.
[2:46:43] Commissioner Hernandez?
[2:46:44] Yes.
[2:46:45] Commissioner Delgado?
[2:46:46] Yes.
[2:46:47] Commissioner Albrecht?
[2:46:48] Yes.
[2:46:49] Chair Geesinger.
[2:46:50] Yes.
[2:46:50] Motion passes.
[2:46:52] Thank you.
[2:46:53] Thank you, fellow board members.
[2:46:55] I mean, just a comment for the public.
[2:46:57] Again, we appreciate the turnout.
[2:46:59] The issues on all sides are very important.
[2:47:04] Again, we were involved in amending the zoning ordinance.
[2:47:09] This was seen as a priority in some ways.
[2:47:12] It went through city art commission, city council.
[2:47:16] We're here now, the second project.
[2:47:18] So, I know it's things may need to get worked out, I don't think there's only going to be two of these in the city.
[2:47:28] So, again, let's hope for the best.
[2:47:31] I think this works when we have good actors and people following the rules.
[2:47:36] So, I hope that's how it turns out.
[2:47:42] I think that concludes our business.
[2:47:44] We are adjourned.