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Madam Clerk, roll call. Council President Williams, here. Council Vice President Jones, here. Council

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Member Bear, here. Council Member Breyer, here. Council Member Broughton, here. Council

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Member Moore, here. Council Member Patton, here. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Clerk.

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All

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0, 0, 8, 1, 2, presentation of parking consulted updates.

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Mr.

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President, I had on here mayor, members of council.

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Thank you for allowing us to present to you today.

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I wanted to provide a real brief history of city parking just to make sure everyone was aware.

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The downtown improvement board managed city parking within the DIVs 44 block foot print from 2007 to 2020.

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In October of 2020, Mayor Robinson brought the control and management of parking back to the city

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with the intention of updating and enhancing and improving the overall parking experience for the entire city.

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Here today to present phase one of recommendations for the city parking reforms is Philip Olivier with Olivier Consulting.

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Thank you, Lisa.

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Good afternoon, Council President.

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Members of the Council, like Lisa said, Philip Olivier, here with Olive Tree Consulting to present some of the highlights of my phase one consultation report.

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I'm also happy to go into any details or specifics of the actual report because this is sort

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of a deluded presentation for presentation purposes, and feel free to stop me obviously

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at any time for questions.

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Firstly, the objective of this report is to initiate the first steps to improving the parking

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experience in Pensacola.

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So, on this slide, you'll see, or as you know, the UWF Hof Center conducted a survey on

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parking and received a little over 5,000 responses.

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The top two statistics are really emphasizing the relevancy of the results in the following

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stats.

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As you can see, 79% of respondents travel with personal vehicle or motorcycle to get downtown.

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68% park on street for recreation in the city space and just a few of the other highlights there, 73% stated it's somewhat difficult or extremely difficult to find a space downtown.

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88% said that the most challenging time is to find parking in the afternoons or evenings.

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A little more than half said that they would pay between $1 to $4 or more for an hour of

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the perfect parking experience.

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And the number one concern among respondents was the limited availability of spaces.

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Next slide, please.

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So here is a comparison of leading payment providers that are contracted with other municipalities

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and Florida, a few of them here, pay by phone, park mobile,

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Flowbird, who is really who we're contracted with now.

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A lot of people know it as park Pensacola.

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However, it's really a rebranded Flowbird app and then Passport.

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And as you may know from my report, I'm recommending park mobile,

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not only for the functionality and capability, but

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the sheer density they have, not only in the state,

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by in the nation, all

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right, next slide please.

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And so here's just a reiteration of some of the stats that were in the results.

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The conclusion here really is pointing to the primary concern being the availability

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of spaces rather than cost, so the number one concern limited availability of space, 73%

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not finding a space difficult, 21% said primary concern was cost, and 31% really wasn't

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sure how to indicate city parking as opposed to privately managed parking.

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And then here is just a map of our current parking landscape.

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The yellow shaded area is two hour free parking, and the blue shaded area is the current paid

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parking.

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Next slide.

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This is a map provided by the Hoss Center that it's essentially a heat map showing density.

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It's based off of cell phone data and it just highlights the downtown area as being a really dense populated area.

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And on the next slide here we actually overlay that data onto the maps that we can really compare apples to apples when we're talking about the parking map here.

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And then on the next slide to here we've got the recommended zone, so you've got the

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current paid parking, which is really from the other map there, just translated over

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in blue, and then in the green is the proposed additional paid parking.

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So here we go into the parking hours, currently all parking zones with the exception of the

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PM paid parking basis, money through Saturday. Our recommendation is to extend that to midnight

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for all zones that are currently at 8 a to 7 p. And just a reiteration there of some

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of the survey results, 88% find the most challenging time to find parking is in the afternoons

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or evenings. And you know, the availability of space directly correlates to pricing,

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paid parking and how you price that. Next slide. And so here's more data supplied

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by the Hoss Center based off of cell phone data. It is an overlay of our

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recommended hours there at the bottom and the blue dots. And as you can see all

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the hours we put it there on is every hour that's above one million visits per

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hour.

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So then we get into sort of how to establish a base parking price. So what we did was we compared to

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other relevant cities and we took their median per capita income and then their average parking

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rate and came up with a parking cost to daily income ratio. And as you can see Pensacole is pretty far

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behind there compared to that average baseline at 0.47% the average is about 1.59% and so

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on the next slide here we show what the dollar amount would be if we were aligned with

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the average to this comp set. And so that's $1.69 however if you read my report I'm sort

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of recommending really to go more incrementally to a dollar, a 300-something percent increase

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really not reasonable, so 50 cents to a dollar is certainly within reason, if you look

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at these other comparable cities.

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And so like I said, I call that really a base price.

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The goal here is to fluctuate the pricing to achieve a desired outcome, and so this is

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It's just kind of an infographic on how you would determine that, so you start your base price as any space or zone sort of increases in demand.

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You would increase that in price as well.

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And the goal is to eventually end up with an average of 85% occupancy or so per zone per location.

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And then a re-iteration there, if you go back one slide, the more than half of the respondents said that they'd be willing to pay a dollar to $4 or more for an hour of the perfect parking experience.

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Next slide.

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And so here are just a list of overall benefits that you'd received just from inherently changing this parking strategies as recommended.

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easier to find parking, easier to pay, better infrastructure, stronger economy and produce

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vehicular congestion.

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I'm happy to dig into any of those benefits and how that works.

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And so this is kind of a complicated looking table, top line here, revenue projection is if

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all changes are made, the city would go from roughly 600,000 in annual parking revenue

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to 2.85 million. That's if all changes are made and are any elastic. And then the lower

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three tiers there are really just a matrix to determine what the revenue would be if

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you were to choose one or two of those suggestions.

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So that's a lot of money. So what do we do

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with it? I think the goal here while this is a list of recommendations of what you can

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do with that money and how we've seen other cities spend that money, the goal is to

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reinvest that money into the experience for the actual user that's paying into that

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experience. So everywhere where you're charging for parking, that's where you should improve

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the actual infrastructure.

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And this really goes back to the other paid parking maps so this

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This is recommended where you would actually implement these benefits.

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This map would evolve along with the other maps, so as you would expand paid parking to

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other streets and other zones, you'd want to expand this as well.

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But based on the recommendations, if you went with that, this is where you would implement

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those benefits.

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And that's it.

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Mayor?

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Yeah, I apologize.

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I was late.

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I appreciate Philip putting this together, obviously a lot of work has gone into

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bringing this report to you and Lisa and her team and you know I really had

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our intent at this point is to open this up for questings concerns, conversation

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and we have the expert here due to great job putting this together. We know no

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one better than me but this is quite a hot topic, depending really no matter what

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you do but we really came to the realization many months ago that as parking has evolved so much

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and changed so much from private, privately operated, D-I-B, then to the city, then adding spaces

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that, you know, we came to the pretty quick realization that we haven't had a holistic look at how

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parking operated in the city. So are we band-aiding things as we move along or are we finally

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kind of, you know, collecting our thoughts, collecting the surveys and the concerns of

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our citizens and trying to come up with the best solution moving forward.

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So, that's what this effort is, and we know it's a painful, I know my email inbox can

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illustrate perfectly that this is a frustrating topic for a lot of people, and I think a big

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portion of that is not just what's happening in private lots that we can't control, but

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also making sure that we have our ducks in a row that we're doing what's right for our

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it in, and if we're able to generate revenue for user fees that we come back and not use

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taxpayer dollars of folks that may not be using downtown, but how do we make it safer

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more beautiful?

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How do we have those infrastructure improvements that we desperately need downtown?

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This is a way to do that and start to get a little feedback from you guys as well about

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what those priorities may be moving forward if we were to start to actually be generating some

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real dollars in terms of parking revenue.

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Anyway, I've heard you fill up in Lisa and the team putting this all together and just interested to hear your questions.

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Thank you as well. May I don't know if this is a question for you or for Lisa?

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How much did we make off the parking? What are we making off the parking now?

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600,000.

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Council President, members of Council, roughly about 600,000.

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I don't know if Miss Lil' Boy is here. She would have the exact numbers I'm sure, but roughly about 600,000.

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That's what I recall about that and that's for a significant amount of spaces as you can

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bet right now it's 30 minutes free.

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Do we pay a transaction fee on this 30 minute free or do we not?

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So it's 30 minutes free and then it's 50 cents an hour for, of course, the blue spaces

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as it's considered.

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And how many free lives do we have?

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How many free spaces?

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I know it's significant portion of our cities.

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So all of the spaces are free after seven all of the spaces except for Jefferson garage all are free after seven all are free on Sundays all are free on national holidays and about 85% of them are free all the time.

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So we give away a lot of our parking.

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So if you had to put the number on it how many spaces I don't have the exact count but I can absolutely get that for you and send it out in the next couple days.

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Okay. Thank you. Councilman Behr.

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Thank you, Mr. President. This question is for Philip, I sort of.

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So first of all, on the slide that showed the survey results, it said, the number one

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was limited availability of spaces. Is there a way to tell if that's like, is that just

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any spaces or is that city spaces? Because there's a lot of product, lots too. Is there?

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No, there's not really a way to tell because as you could see by the results that not everyone

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was even clear on how to determine which lots or spaces were city or private, I can tell

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you that the city spaces are much cheaper in general.

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It's really free in comparison to private lots, and so it's very likely that that's alluding to the city's business. And I just want to make one addition. When you see the second complaint was caused, the bill of agenda 21%, but when you factor in one way we can't calculate is, is that 21% of people complaining about private lot costs or when 30% don't know, I just tend to believe that 50 cents an hour and 30 minutes free, that I really suppress that in my mind.

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And if I'm really analyzing that data, I don't truly think it's 21% as number two when

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we're talking about city spaces.

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I think it's confusion around $4 and $5 an hour at other spaces that truly are biggest

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concerns in my mind from the survey.

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Data is one availability, which is because we aren't charging in some of those places and

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it's a lack of availability and the app that he mentioned that ease of use.

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And that was number one and number three on the biggest concerns.

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But number two was pretty close to number three, and I just don't believe that 50 cents an hour is really truly that

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The issue and in our city spaces. Um, do you have any idea what percentage of the downtown parking is city versus private?

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Do we know that?

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Now that be I could we could probably figure that out. Yeah, I don't have it. I'll stop in my head. Okay. That's fine

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And then do we know like I know you had that one slide with all those bars on the bar chart makes it a challenge

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to figure out, but increasing the hours up to midnight, do we know what that, if we kept the rates the way they were, what impact that would have?

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It has it broken.

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Yeah, I just...

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If you're saying if we kept the rates as is and changed the hours, so if hours expanded and no other changes, it's $121,000.

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Okay, so that's not much.

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Okay. All right. And then, let's see, I have another question. Okay. So when I look

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at that one slide that has the proposed paid parking, like increasing the amount of paid

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parking, it's got the current paid parking, then proposed additional paid parking. Is that

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pretty much everything that's currently two hour for free right now?

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Yes. Okay. Yeah. Anything

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that was two hour free would be converted to paid. So everything would be paid. Okay.

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And what about I'm in this this not everything. I mean there's a we the vast majority of our spaces are still free

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Right, you're talking about the two-hour spaces in the heart. Yeah, anything that was previously two-hour time spaces

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But not paid would now convert to full-time 24 paid parking, okay, okay, and then

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Gosh my final question that that derail me a little bit. Oh, so the half hour that would go away for which day

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That's about for free

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I think that's really up to the city parking.

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That is something that we're still investigating in working with some of the, talking to some of the other vendors.

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There's a user transaction fee that would be applied to the city regardless of whether or not a parking session started.

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So it would actually cost the city money every time we gave away that 30 minutes free.

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So looking at parking holistically would it be better for us to do specific spaces that are timed for

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30 minutes free or does everybody just get the first 30 minutes free? And that would

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come more of a phase two approach and it's determining who our mobile payment vendor

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is and whether there's a cost to the city or whether, you know, we just make some of this

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faces. So with Park Mobile, we'd have to pay a fee for every transaction, correct?

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Do you have any idea how much that fee is? 25 cents. Yeah. Okay, so the city would have to

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that cost pretty much all right now we pay 16 cents but what we're saying is not on right now

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there was the arrangement was that it was not on the free 30 minutes correct but that doesn't that

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presumes that we we're not even saying that if they did or they didn't that we would still do that

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and and I agree with Lisa and I've had conversations with downtown business owners

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Bellafox and Jefferson last year about this topic because one of the most backward parking

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things we have is that we have two-hour parking on Pellafox Street. No city in America

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takes their most busy street and makes it free parking for two hours. Then we have congestion.

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I believe Donald Chooves numbers 30 percent of traffic in a downtown is people circling around

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for a free spot. And that opens up pedestrian safety issues and all that with additional.

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So, it's not even to say for sure that whether they would charge or so, they wouldn't that we would not get rid of the 30 minutes free, but we would replace it with, and a lot of the downtown retailers say, well, look, it'd be nice if someone, if you're running in to get donuts, you're running into grabs something that you'd have an area.

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I like the idea just philosophically at this point, but I like the idea of let's have designated spaces for those 15 minutes.

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in and out as opposed to every space in the city.

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So we don't want to hurt the downtown retailers by making someone even though it would be

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very easy with an app to charge, but we might go more of that direction than every single

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space 30 minutes free, and there's a lot of confusion about that because people hear 30 minutes

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free, then they don't register, then they get a ticket, because it's free with putting

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you still have to open the app and mark that, so there's been some confusion there as well

212
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but that's not a perfect solution.

213
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Okay, yeah, and I think it almost seems like

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with the two-hour, it's more difficult to enforce too,

215
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because you're having to check those more frequently,

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especially when there's no app or anything.

217
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So yeah, I think that's definitely something

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that makes sense is to convert those

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even though I know people love free to our parking,

220
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but I appreciate it.

221
00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:58,150
Thank you, thanks Mr. Brism.

222
00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:58,750
Yes, thank you.

223
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Councilwoman Gray.

224
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Thank you.

225
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,420
It's a very interesting study and there's a lot of ways I appreciate that you did this

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in so many different ways to look at what each effect will do so that we can navigate

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it and do things slightly different if we care to.

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Some things that I have found confusion with constituents is they think this is going to

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make it more difficult to find parking places but when I was reading some of the stuff I'd

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I want you to kind of explain how this actually opens up more parking places, if you can.

231
00:21:36,260 --> 00:21:42,840
Yeah. Well, it's similar to how a hotel operates their rooms or an airline operates their seats.

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They adjust the pricing depending on demand.

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And it really just is all based off of elasticity.

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And so when you increase the price to find that magic number of 85% occupancy,

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it leads it to an environment where as you're driving through every block is

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going to have one or two spaces open obviously depending on the space

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count of that zone but that is the goal is to drive available occupancy or

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capacity rather through pricing. So I was kind of thinking and talking it out

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with some neighbors that if you have no parking paying for parking on

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Then you may have the barista at the coffee shop who's parking on

241
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Palafox for their entire shift.

242
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Whereas this will sort people rotating.

243
00:22:32,340 --> 00:22:32,700
Absolutely.

244
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Is that a legitimate?

245
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:34,260
Yeah.

246
00:22:34,460 --> 00:22:38,060
And even in the spaces where you're even charging until 7 p.m.

247
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If someone's coming in to work at 6 p.m.

248
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They pay for an hour and then they're there until 2 a.m.

249
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,440
Well, then how many customers could have come and gone in that time frame?

250
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Right?

251
00:22:49,940 --> 00:22:57,580
And so that's part of the goal is to make sure that there's, you know, we're trying to promote, turn over and not force it.

252
00:22:58,060 --> 00:23:09,100
Okay, and then my final is there are still quite a few people who come downtown who may not have a mobile phone with them, who may not use it efficiently, sometimes me, probably.

253
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:17,220
And they want still a physical ability to pay for their parking, would that still be available?

254
00:23:17,220 --> 00:23:25,000
Yes, there's no recommendation to eliminate parking kiosk and in fact I'm pretty sure it's part of the city's plan that as they expand

255
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,820
They would expand to more having more kiosk in that area as well. Thank you. I appreciate it.

256
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:32,160
Councilman Jones.

257
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:33,880
No, thank you.

258
00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:35,420
Yeah, that's a good question.

259
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:40,360
So first, is it safe to assume that you no longer work for premium parking?

260
00:23:41,020 --> 00:23:42,740
Yes, it's fun to make sure.

261
00:23:42,740 --> 00:23:45,160
Because I've seen you since last time I talked about that.

262
00:23:46,820 --> 00:23:53,880
So I was curious, did we look at any of the private parking, and I know there's been some

263
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,260
discussion from you about maybe for some of those.

264
00:23:57,300 --> 00:24:01,760
Yeah, I mean I can speak to that, I can, I still maintain, I mentioned my press conference

265
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:09,880
many times, not out of 10 complaints that I get, or that Lisa gets come from, and, you know,

266
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So I think when a parent sends me an email and says my 18-year-old, my 20-year-old,

267
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was stuck with a boot in the middle of the night, and because one letter was off in

268
00:24:22,180 --> 00:24:25,920
a license plate or whatever the case may be, I'm just kind of tired of saying that's

269
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not my job.

270
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And it's like I'm to be honest with you, so certainly what we're trying to do here is figure

271
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out from a city perspective, what I've mentioned earlier.

272
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What's a, finally, us coming up with a complete holistic approach of how we handle the spaces

273
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of which we are charged with enforcing, with providing.

274
00:24:52,460 --> 00:24:58,800
But if there were to be a scenario where private lots good, you know, would see what we

275
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are doing and liked it and would be able to be part of that solution, certainly we would

276
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be open to that.

277
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,400
You know, that's not what our focus is.

278
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:12,680
that's not what we've asked Philip to do is to say let's get our house in order but

279
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you know I think that that won't if we were to do this right I think we would we certainly

280
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would be the the new benchmark of of performance and how parking works and and I'm just kind

281
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:31,600
of tired to be honest with you sitting around saying sorry that's not our job it's a it's a

282
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,360
roading our downtown experience. And when someone goes back to Jackson, Mississippi, or

283
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:39,600
to Atlanta, Georgia, and they get a ticket or they get a boot on their car, they don't

284
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,380
say, well, don't worry about it. It wasn't the mayor or the city. What they say is, I

285
00:25:43,380 --> 00:25:49,320
had a poor experience in downtown Pasola period. So it is our job. And that's why we're trying

286
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to get our house in order. And certainly, if opportunity arose, that there could be more

287
00:25:53,540 --> 00:25:56,500
collaboration through private lots and others, we will absolutely entertain them.

288
00:25:56,500 --> 00:25:57,340
Thank you.

289
00:25:57,340 --> 00:25:57,600
Thank you.

290
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,900
A couple more questions.

291
00:26:00,180 --> 00:26:03,880
So we talked about the revenue was 600, around 600,000.

292
00:26:04,220 --> 00:26:08,700
Do we know what the operating expenses were for parking in that same meter?

293
00:26:12,460 --> 00:26:13,620
Council President, members of council.

294
00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:17,820
I don't have the numbers for this year because it just closed out, so I don't have those.

295
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:25,340
Last year we had a carryover of I think a little over 400,000 of which we are contributing

296
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:31,500
contributed back into upgrades and aesthetic improvements to Jefferson Street Garage and then some other things

297
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:37,980
I think the mayor is going to mention later on this week. So I think it was roughly around 400 if memory serves.

298
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:44,140
Yeah, correct. Something like that. And I can just say anecdotally understanding how many spaces, do you know what how many spaces

299
00:26:44,140 --> 00:26:50,260
is we have now sub your head. The city operated spaces currently paid or just city spaces.

300
00:26:50,260 --> 00:26:51,100
city spaces period.

301
00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:56,800
I want to say it's upwards of 6,000 and I think private is upper last time we did account

302
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:02,820
of private and they've expanded a little bit was upwards of 14 to 16,000 so they have

303
00:27:02,820 --> 00:27:04,660
considerably more spaces than-

304
00:27:04,660 --> 00:27:09,440
Well what I'll tell you anecdotally is the amount of spaces we have to that revenue that you

305
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,140
speak of is minuscule compared to what's happening.

306
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,800
There's single private lots that are doing what the city is doing in revenue.

307
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,400
So, that's when people say, hey, it's getting more expensive or you're thinking about raising the rate.

308
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,780
There's a way more free parking than you would ever imagine.

309
00:27:26,020 --> 00:27:29,100
I mean, it's still a significant amount and would be moving forward.

310
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,220
And, you know, a dollar an hour.

311
00:27:32,420 --> 00:27:36,420
We don't know the difference between people coming downtown and not a 50 cents or a dollar an hour.

312
00:27:36,420 --> 00:27:37,280
I think it's how they're treated.

313
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,300
And I think it's how what that perfect parking experience is.

314
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:47,180
I think that's what we really need to be fixing is what is right look like in terms of someone enjoying themselves coming downtown.

315
00:27:47,180 --> 00:27:54,860
and hopefully we can start doing what we can control at this point and doing our best to do so.

316
00:27:55,740 --> 00:28:00,360
The last thing I'll say is that the part of mobile app I've used it quite a bit and it works really well.

317
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:06,000
Our current app, it seems to be pretty good. It's just as kind of slow and clunky and doesn't work all the time.

318
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:07,960
So I like the idea of switching.

319
00:28:10,380 --> 00:28:10,940
Councilwoman from?

320
00:28:11,980 --> 00:28:21,700
Thank you most of everyone else has asked my questions already but I guess I'll add a question I do have though is I noticed a lot of

321
00:28:23,020 --> 00:28:24,780
Miss D's like are you from Pensacola?

322
00:28:26,340 --> 00:28:31,280
I was born in Georgia but only there for a short amount of time. So yes, I do consider myself from Pensacola.

323
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,100
Okay, so if then you remember how

324
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,660
Parking was free you go anywhere but also we didn't have much to see, right?

325
00:28:40,660 --> 00:28:40,760
right?

326
00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:41,480
Yes, right.

327
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,900
So, how the Fox looked a lot different when I was growing up here that it does now.

328
00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:54,520
And I think maybe the public who don't know the difference between our blue screen size

329
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,640
and the red size, and I do see Mr. Switzerland right there, and I said that up on his face.

330
00:28:59,180 --> 00:29:04,880
They don't really, you know, know the difference in how I set up, right?

331
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:10,940
and because they've been here this whole time they just see this change and it

332
00:29:10,940 --> 00:29:15,500
may not be advertised to them what's going on right I remember there was a

333
00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:19,680
situation when everyone got towed behind the post office behind the downtown

334
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,740
post office and they said you know we've been probably here forever for free and

335
00:29:24,740 --> 00:29:29,260
now we just all got towed there was a singer it was an older crowd so they didn't

336
00:29:29,260 --> 00:29:32,120
you know they hadn't been there forever so they hadn't seen the changes and

337
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:37,580
everything you remember that? I do. Right. So, um, do you think that it might be

338
00:29:37,580 --> 00:29:43,880
possible for, well, for first thing? Would this be gradual? Would it be a increase

339
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,680
over a certain amount of years? Or would it just one day you wake up and now it's

340
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:56,320
just pricey? Are you referring to the paid parking increase? That would be an

341
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,760
overnight kind of thing. Obviously, we would market it, but it would be

342
00:30:00,020 --> 00:30:27,780
As of this day, your rate would go from 50% per hour to whatever the determined amount is per hour. Okay. Okay. As far as expanding the paid to park area, that will be a gradual, um, because it takes equipment and time and labor and all of that. So that would be a gradual expansion of the paid to park area. Okay. And well, I think it would help if we just tell people like, like in here, it shows us where the money would go, would it be improvements?

343
00:30:27,780 --> 00:30:34,900
And sometimes I'm a little more satisfied if I see that my parking money paid to clean

344
00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:37,840
this park or to put this equipment here, right?

345
00:30:38,380 --> 00:30:44,340
So showing people what we're doing with the money helps them, you know, fuss at us less.

346
00:30:45,020 --> 00:30:50,280
So maybe we could put that in some of the signage somewhere on display and something.

347
00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:54,020
And I want to say one thing that we've already had a conversation about before changes would

348
00:30:54,020 --> 00:30:59,600
go in is to survey kind of in the same way, much shorter, but to say, all right, well,

349
00:30:59,660 --> 00:31:05,560
if there was some real substantial parking revenue for these user fees, what would you

350
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:11,320
like to see done, and is it structured parking? Is it infrastructure? Is it all of those?

351
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:16,500
Because I think if you read Donald Schulte's books, that's one of the big missing pieces

352
00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:20,580
and we have not done a good enough job of that. They're saying, we also have had the revenue

353
00:31:20,580 --> 00:31:27,140
coming in because it's free in 50 cents an hour but when we do you know how are we

354
00:31:27,140 --> 00:31:31,260
describing in one big misnomer I would say a lot of times I know it's

355
00:31:31,260 --> 00:31:34,760
described with parking to say well if you raise the rate how does that affect

356
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:40,220
people that you know don't have as much income well and actually raising the

357
00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:43,760
rate means that you're charging the user who's using downtown and what I keep

358
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,040
describing is we still own these spaces we still have to maintain them we still

359
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,540
have to fix them when they're broken. So if you really want to help people that, right

360
00:31:52,540 --> 00:31:57,740
now, our taxpayer without any revenue, our taxpayer across the city are paying the fixed

361
00:31:57,740 --> 00:32:03,300
faces downtown, hypothetically, because wouldn't we rather charge the people who are using

362
00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:07,740
it, that when we do need to beautify, when we do need to fix something that we're using

363
00:32:07,740 --> 00:32:11,440
funds from the people who are actually using it, not going around to all 55,000 people and

364
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:16,220
say you're responsible whether you're using it or not, that you use it downtown. So there's

365
00:32:16,220 --> 00:32:21,660
So sometimes there's a myth that raising the rate somehow negatively impacts people with

366
00:32:21,660 --> 00:32:22,080
lower income.

367
00:32:22,220 --> 00:32:23,540
I would argue the opposite.

368
00:32:24,220 --> 00:32:28,320
It's actually, it's now preserved people with lower income that may not be coming downtown

369
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,220
to eat at restaurants or whatever aren't putting the bill to fix those faces for the people

370
00:32:32,220 --> 00:32:32,540
who are.

371
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:35,380
Those are on the questions.

372
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:35,860
Thank you.

373
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:37,840
Councilwoman Patten.

374
00:32:39,020 --> 00:32:39,960
Thank you, Mr. President.

375
00:32:40,900 --> 00:32:46,400
So a lot of good discussion, a lot of the things that I wanted to talk about.

376
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:53,820
But just going back for a minute to this discussion we were having about pricing, there

377
00:32:53,820 --> 00:33:00,960
was a section in your report on demand-based pricing, our variable pricing, and since we

378
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:07,340
don't have the advanced technology infrastructure to be able to really monitor those spaces

379
00:33:07,340 --> 00:33:10,780
is on a real-time basis, using cameras and all the rest.

380
00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:17,260
I've seen some of those demonstrations and it's really neat technology, but it looks

381
00:33:17,260 --> 00:33:23,880
like the recommendation is to use just basically statistics from the number of times that

382
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,800
space is turned over to determine the value of that space in a variable pricing model.

383
00:33:29,820 --> 00:33:36,980
I've heard us talking about moving from potentially $0.50 to $1 or whatever that is, but I guess

384
00:33:36,980 --> 00:33:43,940
That's what I'm interested in hearing more about is when are we talking about moving

385
00:33:43,940 --> 00:33:47,540
from a dollar to a variable-face pricing model?

386
00:33:47,860 --> 00:33:50,500
Or are we, is that part of this discussion?

387
00:33:54,670 --> 00:33:55,730
We've talked about it.

388
00:33:55,870 --> 00:34:00,130
I mean, you have to ask Philip in terms of technology, Donald Schupe uses the San Francisco example

389
00:34:00,130 --> 00:34:03,470
a lot about, you know, putting technology within each space.

390
00:34:03,470 --> 00:34:10,190
I would imagine, and Philip can answer this, really, the question becomes, we would be

391
00:34:10,190 --> 00:34:15,190
able to get enough data out of Park Mobile in the much more advanced app that we have

392
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:19,790
that we would probably start to see our own flow, right, of, if we were to go to midnight,

393
00:34:19,890 --> 00:34:24,630
let's say, then Friday night, you know, it's Saturday day, we know it's down, and there'd

394
00:34:24,630 --> 00:34:28,550
be timing elements that could be dynamic, and certainly, I know, in private lots they're

395
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:31,250
doing that already, based on time and demand.

396
00:34:31,810 --> 00:34:34,070
So I would imagine any data collection

397
00:34:34,070 --> 00:34:36,570
wouldn't be putting infrastructure in physical spaces

398
00:34:36,570 --> 00:34:39,830
like they're doing in San Francisco, but perhaps you just

399
00:34:39,830 --> 00:34:41,630
see enough of a runway of data that

400
00:34:41,630 --> 00:34:43,910
shows you when demand's up and when demand's down.

401
00:34:44,070 --> 00:34:45,370
Is that fair to say that the effort?

402
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:46,970
Yeah, and I think also on the flip side,

403
00:34:47,150 --> 00:34:51,010
it's not just increasing pricing when demand's getting higher.

404
00:34:51,010 --> 00:34:52,530
It's also lowering pricing.

405
00:34:52,770 --> 00:34:56,770
And so there may be instances where there's a street that's

406
00:34:56,770 --> 00:35:02,630
currently $0.50 an hour, that may end up $0.25 an hour, if the demand drops that much.

407
00:35:04,010 --> 00:35:09,450
But yeah, it's certainly just how do you can collect based off of transactions and come

408
00:35:09,450 --> 00:35:10,510
to the conclusion that way.

409
00:35:10,890 --> 00:35:14,770
And then it's really up to the city's parking department, how often they actually adjust

410
00:35:14,770 --> 00:35:15,510
those prices.

411
00:35:16,210 --> 00:35:23,070
Okay, so whatever is going to come before us, we'll have more clarity on that aspect of

412
00:35:23,070 --> 00:35:23,450
it as well.

413
00:35:23,450 --> 00:35:28,070
I believe the first thing that would be coming to you, correct me Lisa, would be some kind,

414
00:35:28,170 --> 00:35:32,630
right now it's written very static in the ordinance that it's 50 cents an hour.

415
00:35:33,450 --> 00:35:34,630
That's our only option.

416
00:35:35,530 --> 00:35:40,450
So I think that would be the conversation coming to you guys next would be, all right well

417
00:35:40,450 --> 00:35:43,450
price is going to change instead of saying it's now one dollar.

418
00:35:43,870 --> 00:35:45,130
I think that's very rigid as well.

419
00:35:45,310 --> 00:35:51,450
I think it would probably be some 25 cents to whatever two dollars or whatever the case

420
00:35:51,450 --> 00:35:56,670
maybe that would allow us to have that flexibility without having, you know, to come every three months

421
00:35:56,670 --> 00:36:00,430
and say, well, we want to lower it or we want to raise it, that we've come up. And I think that's

422
00:36:00,430 --> 00:36:04,150
what we've seen in other cities before, that that's where it's more written that way, and that allows you

423
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:11,850
that range. There it is. That is correct. So, Philip, on the point about the 30-minute spaces,

424
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:17,070
you know, for shoppers who just want to run in and get something, or they're going to pick up their,

425
00:36:17,070 --> 00:36:22,450
or whatever they're dress at scout or whatever it is.

426
00:36:23,970 --> 00:36:27,670
You know, tell me how you think about that because I really think that it's important

427
00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:35,330
to make sure that we are balancing the, you know, the sort of shot, the long term retailers

428
00:36:35,330 --> 00:36:39,530
that are on the street and making sure that, you know, as much as we can, we're creating

429
00:36:39,530 --> 00:36:46,410
the right environment to allow them to continue to operate in downtown rather than feeling

430
00:36:46,410 --> 00:36:50,790
like they've got to go somewhere else because they're more of a destination business than

431
00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:54,390
they are somebody who just kind of passes along on a street and stops in.

432
00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:59,950
So how do you think about that and what are your recommendations in that area if you have

433
00:36:59,950 --> 00:37:00,110
any?

434
00:37:00,450 --> 00:37:05,830
Yeah, well, I think that you sort of lose the control when you're saying that it's free,

435
00:37:06,090 --> 00:37:06,110
right?

436
00:37:06,270 --> 00:37:13,310
The pricing, the point of all the pricing is to promote that turnover and that's, you

437
00:37:13,310 --> 00:37:14,330
do it through the pricing.

438
00:37:14,330 --> 00:37:21,170
and so I really think that's how you get to that point.

439
00:37:22,070 --> 00:37:26,990
But the idea of having spaces that are dedicated for 15-minute parking or 30-minute parking

440
00:37:26,990 --> 00:37:29,210
and having a certain number of those?

441
00:37:30,270 --> 00:37:33,210
Yeah, I think it increases turn which is a good thing

442
00:37:33,210 --> 00:37:36,690
and that should be beneficial for the retailer that it's near.

443
00:37:37,810 --> 00:37:41,250
And I think it's just something that's got to be looked at on a case-by-case basis

444
00:37:41,250 --> 00:37:48,970
Is that zone actually retail heavy or walk in heavy and is that going to benefit from

445
00:37:48,970 --> 00:37:50,850
having it there for not having it there?

446
00:37:51,470 --> 00:37:51,530
Okay.

447
00:37:52,530 --> 00:37:56,970
So is that part of I guess what you guys will be looking at going forward?

448
00:37:57,110 --> 00:38:01,150
Yeah, and I'll tell you the initial conversations we talked about is I'll just use an example

449
00:38:01,150 --> 00:38:07,370
would be on Romana between Palafox and Jefferson where there's some side spaces where you could

450
00:38:07,370 --> 00:38:12,630
We kind of pull up, walk into a retailer, walk into, you know, get breakfast for coffee

451
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:15,350
or whatever for 15 minutes just as to go and get moving.

452
00:38:15,710 --> 00:38:19,570
We have the worst of both worlds, which is I would put Philip on the spot if I asked

453
00:38:19,570 --> 00:38:21,390
him the last city that put in two-hour free parking.

454
00:38:21,710 --> 00:38:25,410
But he probably doesn't know off-hand or I don't know if anybody's doing that.

455
00:38:26,330 --> 00:38:28,210
Because that's the worst of both, as he said.

456
00:38:28,350 --> 00:38:33,670
We've got employees parking for free in a two-hour space and then moving them up one and then

457
00:38:33,670 --> 00:38:33,990
parking.

458
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:36,710
You know, I mean it's the least efficient of all.

459
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:42,030
We're better off with 15-minute or 30-minute spaces where there's term coming in we can still support businesses

460
00:38:42,030 --> 00:38:46,070
So that's be a very initial conversation we've had is say all right

461
00:38:46,070 --> 00:38:53,550
Well, let's take four or five spaces along Romana, you know where that you could feeds right in within a block of places that you could run in and out of grab a, you know

462
00:38:54,350 --> 00:38:55,030
clothing or

463
00:38:55,470 --> 00:38:57,870
You know coffee whatever and be in and out of there

464
00:38:57,870 --> 00:39:04,910
And now we're getting more people to be able to interact with downtown and one stat that we just saw and at least it's sent to me

465
00:39:04,910 --> 00:39:08,550
recently, Hoss did their own DIB survey that you may have seen.

466
00:39:09,230 --> 00:39:14,770
I think they said in 2020 we had 5.6 million interactions with downtown and this last year

467
00:39:14,770 --> 00:39:15,510
at 8.3.

468
00:39:16,130 --> 00:39:21,030
So when you see that our largest complaint is availability of spaces, we have 2.7 million

469
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:26,070
more people, 50% more according to their data than we just did a few years ago that are interacting

470
00:39:26,070 --> 00:39:27,130
with our downtown somehow.

471
00:39:27,690 --> 00:39:32,930
So that's very, very much realistic is that we do have more people coming down here and

472
00:39:32,930 --> 00:39:37,650
a lot of free parking into our free parking may not be the same solution it was in the 90s when

473
00:39:37,650 --> 00:39:41,730
me and my granddad were walking down and we wouldn't see a soul on Saturday when I was growing up.

474
00:39:41,950 --> 00:39:46,430
You know lots of free parking around then but you know we've got a city in demand and this is part

475
00:39:46,430 --> 00:39:51,530
of the growing up of the city in demand is to you know I agree and I think what I do think having

476
00:39:51,530 --> 00:39:56,530
those kind of short real short-term spaces is a good way to balance everyone's interests.

477
00:39:58,870 --> 00:40:06,590
So on the, there was also a discussion about employees, you know, and kind of what happens

478
00:40:07,130 --> 00:40:13,010
to folks who are working downtown and how, you know, what are our strategies and I think

479
00:40:13,010 --> 00:40:17,130
I saw a few suggestions in here, you know, on how to create some more parking.

480
00:40:17,830 --> 00:40:24,910
I see all these decks we have where either at night or, you know, even most of the day

481
00:40:24,910 --> 00:40:29,530
They're not being used some of which the city has an interest in so I guess you know

482
00:40:29,530 --> 00:40:32,990
I just like to hear what you because I think that's a big concern by a lot of businesses

483
00:40:34,010 --> 00:40:39,690
Particularly those that employ folks that are making a lot of money. You know, where are they going to park if

484
00:40:39,690 --> 00:40:44,070
They can't find parking. We talk about kind of what we're doing now and then we you know, I can address

485
00:40:44,070 --> 00:40:46,430
So yes, council president councilwoman patent

486
00:40:46,970 --> 00:40:51,990
Right now we currently offer free parking to employees on the roof of Jefferson garage

487
00:40:52,430 --> 00:40:54,350
It is highly underutilized

488
00:40:54,350 --> 00:40:59,230
I go on the record of saying that again, roof of Jefferson Grudge is highly underutilized

489
00:40:59,230 --> 00:41:00,230
and it's free to employees.

490
00:41:00,670 --> 00:41:03,770
We also have a common density a lot, which is free during the day.

491
00:41:04,030 --> 00:41:08,950
It's free on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday night, we start a charge, Friday night, we

492
00:41:08,950 --> 00:41:09,610
charge Saturday night.

493
00:41:09,730 --> 00:41:10,630
It is underutilized.

494
00:41:10,730 --> 00:41:12,970
The South Palafox lot is underutilized.

495
00:41:13,350 --> 00:41:15,830
We offer a lot of free parking again.

496
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:18,830
Almost 85% of the city's parking is free all the time.

497
00:41:19,290 --> 00:41:24,330
So if an employee can't find somewhere to park, I would go out on a limit.

498
00:41:24,330 --> 00:41:27,310
say it's probably because they're coming in on two wheels five minutes before

499
00:41:27,310 --> 00:41:31,230
their shift starts and they want to park right outside of where they work because

500
00:41:31,230 --> 00:41:35,570
we offer lots of options. We will also have an option for if you want a

501
00:41:35,570 --> 00:41:39,750
permit and you can prove that you're an employee and you have to maintain that

502
00:41:39,750 --> 00:41:44,750
proof of employment because a lot of these restaurants, bars, so forth have a

503
00:41:44,750 --> 00:41:48,770
high rate of turnover. So it's real hard to make sure like if you're getting a

504
00:41:48,770 --> 00:41:52,890
$10 permit to park in the garage because you're an employee that you don't carry

505
00:41:52,890 --> 00:41:56,870
that permit for two years and you only work down here for a month. So we're trying to figure

506
00:41:56,870 --> 00:42:02,390
that solution out, but we are having conversations of how do we offer proof of employment every

507
00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:09,070
month and you get a $10 permit for city owned property or a lot that's close to where you

508
00:42:09,070 --> 00:42:09,350
work.

509
00:42:09,870 --> 00:42:13,770
Good. I think that's just a great piece of this that I think is really important.

510
00:42:13,870 --> 00:42:19,270
And it is difficult being in the business and being downtown. We have 50 employees. You

511
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:22,510
know, it used to be suggestive before or why don't you give employees a pass? Well, because

512
00:42:22,510 --> 00:42:27,510
there's turnover in these all these restaurants and bars, I mean every two weeks someone would be out

513
00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:32,610
with an employee pass for the next three years, you know, that they only work the perfect plane

514
00:42:32,610 --> 00:42:37,130
for two weeks, you know, and so that that would be the difficulty, the only way I could come up with

515
00:42:37,130 --> 00:42:41,910
some scenario that would make sense there would be that the that the business itself had some kind

516
00:42:41,910 --> 00:42:46,150
of ownership, in other words they had to pay for half and their employee paid for half or something

517
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:50,430
that allowed there to be some control in place that they would have a vested interest in making sure

518
00:42:50,430 --> 00:42:55,030
that those are updated. But yeah, it's kind of kind of difficult, you know, and there

519
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:59,950
are passes now as for the general public. So those are accessible. And I think that's

520
00:42:59,950 --> 00:43:04,350
another myth. I hear a lot say that'd be nice if there's passes like, well, there is passes

521
00:43:04,350 --> 00:43:08,250
in the Jefferson Street garage. So we do have options for employees that are that are

522
00:43:08,250 --> 00:43:14,250
reasonable. You know, but yeah, I agree. Whether if they go parking a private lot and pay $75

523
00:43:14,250 --> 00:43:17,990
to be there for their entire shift. I mean, that's not something we can control. And I

524
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:19,610
I knew what, that's a complaint that I've heard as well.

525
00:43:21,410 --> 00:43:32,150
So how did you, to try, well, let me back up, I thought I heard you say that the area that's now going to be going to be paid is the previously free two-hour parking.

526
00:43:33,590 --> 00:43:37,170
Does it include anything that wasn't already two-hour parking?

527
00:43:37,530 --> 00:43:37,830
It does.

528
00:43:38,170 --> 00:43:38,290
Okay.

529
00:43:38,530 --> 00:43:38,730
It does.

530
00:43:39,050 --> 00:43:42,610
Yeah. It's the two-hour free parking plus some expansion beyond that.

531
00:43:42,610 --> 00:43:50,350
And how did we determine, you know, what areas made sense to turn into paid parking versus leaving us free parking?

532
00:43:50,670 --> 00:44:01,570
You know, in person sort of density in volume but also the volume data that we were presented to from UWF.

533
00:44:02,130 --> 00:44:11,990
But I think the most important part is that you really can't get solid data until it's paid parking because you need that sort of transactional data to figure that out.

534
00:44:12,730 --> 00:44:19,090
And I do have one question on the map because I've been interested in this for a while.

535
00:44:19,570 --> 00:44:26,930
Right down at the south end of Halifax, so Plaza de Luna, I see, you know, we have the

536
00:44:26,930 --> 00:44:31,590
paid parking in that parking lot that's right on the, I guess if you're facing north on

537
00:44:31,590 --> 00:44:33,250
the right side.

538
00:44:34,010 --> 00:44:38,950
But there's free parking, no two hour parking, all the way along the water there.

539
00:44:38,950 --> 00:44:43,090
Is that included in the recommendations to turn into paid parking?

540
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:47,440
I'm sorry.

541
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:55,700
So there's parking along, I guess it's really between the port and

542
00:44:57,260 --> 00:44:59,680
on the court side, and there's a, there's a,

543
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:29,980
A whole bunch of free parking. Along with the fairies. A lot of fair land is right there. Yeah, going towards pot. If you were walking along the water, that's where I think that's where is that right councilwoman? Yeah, that's exactly right. And it just didn't show greed on here. So I was curious whether it was actually included. Okay. So let me make sure I think she was talking about parking benefits area. Tell me a little bit more about that. Yeah, so a lot of other cities, if implemented this that have gone through any sort of

544
00:45:29,980 --> 00:45:36,800
parking reform, you know, the goal is to take the parking revenue and to invest it back into

545
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,520
the city. So that's simply that just refers to the area in which the revenue will be invested.

546
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:46,580
Right. And it's really ever evolving as whenever you expand paid parking, that area should follow.

547
00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:55,800
And then I guess lastly, how big do we think our parking staff needs to become to actually

548
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:01,880
police all these spaces and you know we make sure that we're giving tickets

549
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:08,220
where needed. Council President Councilor Patten for this year we budgeted two

550
00:46:08,220 --> 00:46:12,900
additional staff members to kind of fill in the space in between our day shift

551
00:46:12,900 --> 00:46:17,320
and our night shift and to overlap some of the weekend shifts because we do

552
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:23,160
parking management for the entire city so we respond to 3-1-1s we go out to the

553
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,900
vote ramps and so forth. So our area is not just confined, confined to the paid

554
00:46:27,900 --> 00:46:32,300
a park area. We are ambassadors for the parking ambassadors for the entire

555
00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:37,380
city. So we budgeted for two additional this year that were approved. Having

556
00:46:37,380 --> 00:46:44,320
this in mind, knowing that next year, if all of these changes are implemented, we

557
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,580
may have to increase that. But I felt like two additional staff members currently

558
00:46:48,580 --> 00:46:52,420
we have four, so we would go to six. I feel like that's enough to take care of the

559
00:46:52,420 --> 00:46:56,520
need at this moment. All right, I know I said that was last, but you just made me think

560
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,600
of something else. There are other areas where we have paid parking. I think of Belmont

561
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,720
Abilia, as I think has some paid parking over there.

562
00:47:04,780 --> 00:47:06,240
There is no paid parking in Belmont

563
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:10,180
Abilia. There is a time we have a city lot over there. It's actually CRA lot, but it is free

564
00:47:10,180 --> 00:47:14,460
parking. But it is free parking still. Got it. Okay. All right, thank you.

565
00:47:14,740 --> 00:47:18,980
All right. Pass me over there. Thank you, Mr. President. A couple of questions. So I guess

566
00:47:18,980 --> 00:47:22,380
Well, if you did a great job when you work for premium, because there are so many premium

567
00:47:22,380 --> 00:47:28,880
lots around here, but, you know, I had this fear because I've gone to the post office

568
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:34,240
a couple times, and I'm just going and parking somewhere else because I'm afraid I'm going

569
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:39,340
to get booted or something while I'm in there, but I have this fear that one day I'll come

570
00:47:39,340 --> 00:47:44,520
to the city and our city will be a premium lot, I hope that never happens, but a couple

571
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:49,100
questions. So, and I can think of a place like either the box office at the

572
00:47:49,100 --> 00:47:52,880
sander rather than pay all the fees for a company I won't talk about on a public

573
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,140
meeting. I'll let you go to the box office and buy my tickets there and so

574
00:47:56,140 --> 00:47:59,940
having some way to be able to do that and run. I mean if it's a long ways, well I

575
00:47:59,940 --> 00:48:03,440
guess I can run there in 15 minutes and get there but things like that are what I

576
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:08,900
think of too as far as having some free parking. But then on the demand-based,

577
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:13,620
and you would talk more about this than the mayor had and you know I looked at

578
00:48:13,620 --> 00:48:19,060
the report. So how are people going to know when they're circling around what the price

579
00:48:19,060 --> 00:48:22,560
for that particular spot is and we go to demand-based or they have to look at the app

580
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:27,240
and violate the law by using their phone while they drive or how is that going to work?

581
00:48:28,380 --> 00:48:34,520
Yeah, I mean it's typically obviously if it's dynamic like that it's not going to be fixed on

582
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:41,020
a sign or anything so it would take looking at the app or the pain meter. So they'll have to like

583
00:48:41,020 --> 00:48:44,180
pull into the spot and then make that that would be the safe way to do it.

584
00:48:44,260 --> 00:48:44,420
Correct.

585
00:48:44,940 --> 00:48:45,980
At least it would stop.

586
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:46,400
OK.

587
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:48,900
And you listed several other cities here.

588
00:48:48,980 --> 00:48:50,640
I think that's really helpful with the base rate.

589
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:52,360
I know it's mobiles to $1.

590
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,080
Do any of those cities that you may have said this in here?

591
00:48:56,220 --> 00:48:56,720
I didn't see it.

592
00:48:56,780 --> 00:48:59,140
Do they use demand-based at all?

593
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:01,500
Some of them certainly do.

594
00:49:01,860 --> 00:49:05,360
I didn't really consolidate that data.

595
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:05,600
OK.

596
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:06,680
So it's not in there.

597
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:08,680
It's not just missing out on it.

598
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:21,460
I want to make sure I didn't just miss it and then is the demand-based pricing is it anywhere in their projected revenue lift like that the bar chart that you have is that demand-based in there?

599
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,720
No, it would be so difficult to count.

600
00:49:24,980 --> 00:49:31,420
I knew it would. I'm missing that too. I mean, going up to the dollar to me, I understand that.

601
00:49:31,420 --> 00:49:36,820
I mean, and I think 50 cents is really, really cheap, you know, I mean, compared with

602
00:49:36,820 --> 00:49:40,920
other cities, you know, when you look at cities close to us that are charged in a dollar.

603
00:49:41,860 --> 00:49:46,380
But the demand base makes me a little bit nervous, you know, that's all I was going to ask

604
00:49:46,380 --> 00:49:49,640
you a question about it originally, then of course councilman Patent asked some other questions

605
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:53,440
like, okay, I need to find out about that too, but the demand base that really has me concerned

606
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:58,840
because I'm not sure, I think of like, like ride share services, there's one that has

607
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:03,980
like that sometimes it goes way up when there's high demand and I just I want to make people make sure

608
00:50:03,980 --> 00:50:08,320
people aren't completely shocked and they're going to a spot and it's like way more than they ever thought.

609
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:14,440
I hope there's a top-end range there. I'll speak Philip's off the way to that. I think these are city

610
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,680
spaces and then they need to be, you know, there needs to be a affordability factor. So they're,

611
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:25,260
this is not for us to get into the private lot game of, you know, five and six dollars an hour or more

612
00:50:25,260 --> 00:50:29,940
or depending on the event, that's not the intent here.

613
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,740
The dynamic pricing, when you look, it's in the data,

614
00:50:33,900 --> 00:50:37,000
when 41% of people say that time is hardest

615
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,260
to find a space is on weekends at night,

616
00:50:39,820 --> 00:50:41,040
and we're not charging anything.

617
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,280
That's why it's hard to find parking on weekends at night

618
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,100
is because there is no delineation between demand

619
00:50:47,100 --> 00:50:51,500
or employees of a restaurant, taking all 20 spaces

620
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:54,160
in front of a restaurant, there's no control on that.

621
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,000
And like Philip said, there's no turnover.

622
00:50:56,220 --> 00:51:01,820
So I still think it's the city's duty to keep it affordable for citizens and for visitors.

623
00:51:01,820 --> 00:51:03,240
And that is part of the experience.

624
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,060
We can't determine what private lots do.

625
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,100
But I think the dynamic pricing, yes, would not be.

626
00:51:09,980 --> 00:51:11,580
There should be no fear of that.

627
00:51:11,940 --> 00:51:17,260
We would be getting into the same situation that private lots are getting into where it starts to go exponentially more expensive.

628
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:22,380
It would be something that would still stay within a very affordable and we have the data to back up.

629
00:51:22,380 --> 00:51:27,880
It's only the ordinance we could put the language that the match rate would be correct. Okay. That's all the questions

630
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:36,190
I thank you. Councilman Moore. All right, maybe I'm back clean up. I don't know most of the questions been asked. I

631
00:51:37,350 --> 00:51:40,250
Just really had one question. I was I guess

632
00:51:41,670 --> 00:51:44,590
Thrilled to see you know this kind of comprehensive approach

633
00:51:44,590 --> 00:51:50,730
Come forward. How long ago was it the Donald shoot came depends call. I don't know I was scrolling through my LinkedIn

634
00:51:50,730 --> 00:51:56,570
in 2018. 2018. All right. Well, I was scrolling through to see if I could find a post where

635
00:51:56,570 --> 00:52:01,050
he came through. And I came upon a Donald shoe post on LinkedIn that says, this is the

636
00:52:01,050 --> 00:52:08,190
best consulting report I have ever seen. Congratulations to Philip Olivier and Pensacola. Is that

637
00:52:08,190 --> 00:52:09,770
you and is that us?

638
00:52:12,530 --> 00:52:18,410
I would think he's seen a lot of a lot of consulting reports, huh? That's

639
00:52:18,410 --> 00:52:20,270
pretty good. I thought that was pretty cool to see.

640
00:52:20,550 --> 00:52:23,010
Sort of validates, you know, that we're heading the right direction.

641
00:52:23,210 --> 00:52:29,050
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, it felt really good about that for the community moving forward.

642
00:52:29,150 --> 00:52:32,650
I hope that we've got some way to reach out to Jeff Speck, who hung the moniker

643
00:52:32,650 --> 00:52:36,510
about the Pensacola parking paradigm or whatever.

644
00:52:37,990 --> 00:52:41,610
Hidious moniker it was, he coined for us. So we can show him we learned,

645
00:52:42,190 --> 00:52:45,730
learned our lesson and have pointed ourselves in a new direction.

646
00:52:45,730 --> 00:52:54,410
But anyway, no questions really left to ask as the thorough groups are well done team and congratulations as Dom Schoops has. Thank you.

647
00:52:54,430 --> 00:52:54,770
Thank you.

648
00:52:54,990 --> 00:52:55,690
Councilwoman Braw.

649
00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:56,870
I just had a quick question.

650
00:52:57,010 --> 00:53:02,410
You mentioned about the pricing cases for another mayor mentioned that.

651
00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:07,370
Don't we right increase the price in the parking garage?

652
00:53:08,770 --> 00:53:09,310
Special events.

653
00:53:09,310 --> 00:53:10,890
For big events, for special events.

654
00:53:13,230 --> 00:53:23,710
Yes, we do. On special events, we put a sign out, a frame sign out, and we increase the rates during special events to help cover the cost of maintenance and the upkeep of JEPs for Roger.

655
00:53:24,070 --> 00:53:29,730
Right. So in this, in this proposal, will we do that? Will we continue doing that or we wouldn't have to do that?

656
00:53:29,730 --> 00:53:31,890
We would still continue to do that.

657
00:53:32,250 --> 00:53:36,630
It's a separate issue from the regular cost and so forth.

658
00:53:36,910 --> 00:53:41,090
We would just maybe expand not to the same rate that we charge at Jefferson Grodge,

659
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:44,250
but we would maybe expand that same concept on street parking.

660
00:53:44,450 --> 00:53:46,450
I would just use a gallery unit as an example.

661
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:52,250
We know there's a high demand for parking and at 50 cent and knowing that it's free after 7.

662
00:53:53,690 --> 00:53:58,470
We may increase those rates on street to one of those high demand times.

663
00:53:59,490 --> 00:54:03,070
Well, I just want to let you know that the public doesn't appreciate that.

664
00:54:04,990 --> 00:54:05,810
Just that's all.

665
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:06,690
Yeah, it's public.

666
00:54:07,590 --> 00:54:08,790
And it will bother them for forgotten night.

667
00:54:09,050 --> 00:54:09,690
And we know that.

668
00:54:09,790 --> 00:54:10,590
We know they don't like it.

669
00:54:12,290 --> 00:54:19,990
All I will say is downtown is hustling and bustling, especially on a gallery night.

670
00:54:21,230 --> 00:54:28,230
And the city would be remiss to think that it's okay to give our parking away when

671
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:35,110
And there are other lots that are charging in excess of $50 to $100 an hour to park and people are parking there.

672
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:42,830
So if we can reinvest that money back into our city, why would we not take that opportunity?

673
00:54:43,690 --> 00:54:44,790
Why would we thank you for that?

674
00:54:45,210 --> 00:54:48,390
And now to add to, I think I've just got the numbers today.

675
00:54:49,130 --> 00:54:55,730
I think we spent $112,000, somewhere in the $110,000 range in the last maybe six months on Jefferson Garage,

676
00:54:55,730 --> 00:55:01,310
new lights, new pressure wash, painted, you know, if you haven't noticed, if you were

677
00:55:01,310 --> 00:55:05,190
to, when we should probably get a good before and after, you could see the distinct difference

678
00:55:05,190 --> 00:55:09,710
that it looks like within that experience. And that's what we're supposed to be doing. That's

679
00:55:09,710 --> 00:55:13,590
what we mentioned before is it's a little more palatable to pay, is it $10 for the night.

680
00:55:14,290 --> 00:55:18,670
You know, so if you're there for five hours, you're paying two bucks an hour, the park and the garage,

681
00:55:19,010 --> 00:55:22,610
it's a little more palatable when you know that it goes to making that experience better. And I think,

682
00:55:22,610 --> 00:55:26,990
As I said, I think that's my responsibility personally and the administration's responsibility

683
00:55:26,990 --> 00:55:32,850
to say we're not just taking money from you and then we don't tell you how it's benefiting

684
00:55:32,850 --> 00:55:36,610
the same way with a half-cent sales tax, things that we do there is to say here's where

685
00:55:36,610 --> 00:55:37,650
your money's going.

686
00:55:38,010 --> 00:55:41,470
I think that is our obligation and that's certainly what we want to ask the community about

687
00:55:41,470 --> 00:55:46,250
and what they want to see and that's what we do moving forward if we have the substantial

688
00:55:46,250 --> 00:55:49,690
revenue of which to do so, so that would be our blaming for it.

689
00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:52,730
Councilwoman Pat.

690
00:55:54,330 --> 00:55:59,090
So Councilwoman Broughton asked my question because that's exactly what came to my mind

691
00:55:59,090 --> 00:56:01,510
is all these special events where we're charging.

692
00:56:02,270 --> 00:56:02,930
So thank you for that.

693
00:56:03,030 --> 00:56:08,090
But I did just leave my light on because I want to say that this was something that I wanted

694
00:56:08,090 --> 00:56:08,750
to see happen.

695
00:56:09,010 --> 00:56:13,970
This kind of detailed, you know, in-depth analysis of the parking downtown is obviously

696
00:56:13,970 --> 00:56:17,990
of great concern to people living downtown and people visiting downtown.

697
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:31,610
town. So, I really appreciate it. Thank you Mayor for doing it. Thank you Lisa and Phillip for this great report. I didn't know was that as great as it really is, but you know, the report, the Donald Schoep has now labeled one of the best.

698
00:56:31,890 --> 00:56:35,910
So, I'm grateful and I appreciate it and I just wanted to tell everybody that.

699
00:56:36,370 --> 00:56:39,010
All right. You're out of the hot seat.

700
00:56:40,590 --> 00:56:41,250
Thank you.

701
00:56:41,250 --> 00:56:47,490
All right, we're moving down to the review of the consent agenda items.

702
00:56:47,790 --> 00:56:54,530
Item number 2 is 2, 3-00784, amendment 2 in a local agreement with the Scambia County

703
00:56:54,530 --> 00:56:55,710
Housing Finance Authority.

704
00:56:58,260 --> 00:57:05,960
Item number 3 is 2, 3-00793, approval of utility work by highway contract agreement number

705
00:57:07,380 --> 00:57:15,280
426935-2-56-02, with the State of Florida Department of Transportation, FDOT, for construction

706
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:21,860
of stone water piping across scenic highway at the intersection of Langley Avenue.

707
00:57:24,650 --> 00:57:32,870
Item number 4 is 2-3-00759, proposed revision, court, tariff, number 5A.

708
00:57:33,690 --> 00:57:34,490
Council President.

709
00:57:34,610 --> 00:57:34,670
Council President.

710
00:57:34,670 --> 00:57:57,010
Yeah, you have a revised item at your place and the only revision was in order to keep some consistency in the recommendation, I ask support staff to change two words that doesn't change the substantive nature of it and they were very gracious and allowing to change those two words.

711
00:57:57,010 --> 00:57:59,270
Okay. All right. Thank you.

712
00:57:59,730 --> 00:58:06,630
Item number five is two three dash zero zero five seven two community development

713
00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:11,750
block agreement for service with Council on Agings of West Florida Inc.

714
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:15,040
Item

715
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:20,020
number six is two three dash zero zero seven seven seven discretionary funding

716
00:58:20,020 --> 00:58:25,720
allocation city council president Delaney Wiggins district seven item number

717
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:31,860
Item number 7 is 2-3-00781, discretionary funding allocation city council member Jerry at

718
00:58:31,860 --> 00:58:32,620
more district 4.

719
00:58:35,140 --> 00:58:42,300
Item number 8 is 2-3-00796, discretionary funding allocation city council member tenia de

720
00:58:42,300 --> 00:58:43,460
Broughton district 5.

721
00:58:46,330 --> 00:58:53,290
Item number 9 is 2-3-00797, discretionary funding allocation city council member Jennifer

722
00:58:53,290 --> 00:58:54,590
for Breyer District 1.

723
00:58:56,980 --> 00:58:58,200
And we're moving down to the review

724
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,080
of the regular agenda items.

725
00:59:00,980 --> 00:59:04,500
Item number 10 is 2, 3-00719.

726
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:06,860
Request for license to use.

727
00:59:07,220 --> 00:59:09,820
Right away, 801 East Gregory Street,

728
00:59:14,370 --> 00:59:15,210
Councilwoman Breyer.

729
00:59:15,930 --> 00:59:16,590
It's just curious,

730
00:59:20,540 --> 00:59:23,220
actually, I can't slide

731
00:59:23,220 --> 00:59:26,100
whether I want to save questions for Thursday or not,

732
00:59:26,220 --> 00:59:28,900
but I was curious, are they here to see me or any of them?

733
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:30,920
I'll save it.

734
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:32,180
Council member.

735
00:59:33,100 --> 00:59:34,120
Thank you, Mr. President.

736
00:59:35,580 --> 00:59:38,360
I don't have some questions Thursday too, but I do have one question.

737
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:46,380
I read over the narrative here and talks about how the property immediately west of East

738
00:59:46,380 --> 00:59:51,780
Gregory, or Middle East West of them on Gregory is utilizing city of Pensacola right away.

739
00:59:52,060 --> 00:59:54,020
I guess that's broken egg I'm thinking.

740
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,960
It's across, it's across 13th avenue from another broken egg.

741
00:59:57,960 --> 00:59:59,620
Okay. Yeah, 13. Yeah. Okay.

742
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:28,960
What's that what's referring to that particular property? Is that that if you were to go there now, there's asphalt. It's really unmarked asphalt on the east side of 13. That's on the same side of the 13th Avenue is where the hotel that's being proposed. It's not designated for another broken egg. They have no permission to use. There's nothing around that's designated for a business. That's correct. Is this something we've done before as far as giving like that type of parking to a business?

743
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:31,680
Well, there's a lot of different versions of that.

744
01:00:31,820 --> 01:00:35,200
We've collected, I think, the 28 LTEUs.

745
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,120
We've done that in right away.

746
01:00:39,420 --> 01:00:46,880
We've done two in the last 13 years, excuse me, two in the last 10 years that we have

747
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:47,940
going right now.

748
01:00:48,380 --> 01:00:49,440
And there's also other agreements.

749
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,680
There's some shared use agreements like behind the holiday in right now that is in a parking

750
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:54,800
lot, not in the right away.

751
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:59,340
But as part of their parking requirement you previous administration council

752
01:00:59,980 --> 01:01:02,400
You know that might have been part of the lease or something like that. So

753
01:01:03,180 --> 01:01:07,720
There's a lot of different arrangements that have involved parking or city owned parking or right away in some way

754
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:11,400
So yes, there's there's general precedent for it

755
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:17,560
But I don't think you'll ever find apples to apples to apples, you know, L.T.U. requests based on numbers faces on streets

756
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:19,560
Right anything like that. They're all going to be different

757
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:24,660
You know in some way. I just don't remember seeing one that those spots were dedicated just for

758
01:01:24,660 --> 01:01:25,600
of that entity?

759
01:01:25,860 --> 01:01:26,880
Do we, we have those?

760
01:01:27,340 --> 01:01:27,980
Yeah, we do.

761
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:32,740
We definitely have L to use, that agreements that have been placed in,

762
01:01:32,740 --> 01:01:36,840
have been in place for years, that a lot, city-owned parking spaces,

763
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:40,060
to a business, to a, yeah, we have several of those.

764
01:01:40,140 --> 01:01:43,640
I can't speak to every issue, how many spaces at each one,

765
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,100
but, I mean, we have a list of those, yes.

766
01:01:46,180 --> 01:01:48,240
Can I get that before Thursday, just so I can see?

767
01:01:48,620 --> 01:01:51,040
I'd like to see what the precedent is for this.

768
01:01:51,340 --> 01:01:51,420
Yeah.

769
01:01:52,140 --> 01:01:52,900
We've got a list.

770
01:01:53,300 --> 01:01:53,420
All right.

771
01:01:53,420 --> 01:01:56,740
Okay. Okay. That's all I have. Thank you. Councilman Pratt.

772
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:03,580
I actually think that would be helpful as well to see a list. But I have one other question.

773
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,680
Have you, I know you're taking a look at a lot of these licenses to use.

774
01:02:10,260 --> 01:02:15,360
Have you worked out the details at all of this particular license to use?

775
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:19,740
Yeah. Let me give you an update on where we are administratively as well as how it pertains to this project.

776
01:02:19,740 --> 01:02:23,740
if this is obviously a project that started before COVID,

777
01:02:24,020 --> 01:02:25,940
that initial conversation with them.

778
01:02:27,060 --> 01:02:29,820
And not to get into, you know,

779
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:30,760
we could talk about on Thursday,

780
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:32,460
merits and things like that,

781
01:02:32,460 --> 01:02:33,220
but just so you know,

782
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:38,660
and you saw in your packet that the arrangement before,

783
01:02:38,900 --> 01:02:39,920
and as you go back through time,

784
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,060
you'll see it's $200 annually, $250 annually,

785
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:45,260
for some LTU's.

786
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:48,820
This has been a tipping point for us

787
01:02:48,820 --> 01:02:54,260
of making sure that we have a clear mayor administrative policy on how we set the value

788
01:02:54,260 --> 01:03:00,280
for the taxpayers' right away and it will be in the format what I'll tell you we don't

789
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:04,520
have all of the numbers worked out we're working through a draft now but the general idea

790
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:09,360
is going to be that we set what a market rate would be really in two tiers in my mind.

791
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:14,220
Tier A would be really take Phillips parking benefits district where are we charging for

792
01:03:14,220 --> 01:03:18,120
parking. That's going to be a certain value to the taxpayer. If we were to take that away,

793
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:24,080
versus a location like this would be in a different tier, and that there would be a set value

794
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:29,160
on that. This is what this right away is worth to us. So what is the agreement? In the case

795
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:34,620
of this, they're spending $250,000 on improving those 21 spaces. That would be part of that conversation

796
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:39,440
is that we'd say here's what we believe the market rate value of that right away to the taxpayer

797
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:51,700
So then let's look at the apples and oranges of this arrangement and see what we think is a fair market value given all of the circumstances that are always different for these requests and then how we set that.

798
01:03:51,940 --> 01:04:03,620
So as this, even though this would be moving forward as a thousand dollar a year, what we've always done that I don't necessarily agree with, this operator is fully aware that.

799
01:04:03,620 --> 01:04:06,400
And we have revocability within this.

800
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,560
This is not signing this away for 20 years.

801
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:09,080
This is not.

802
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:12,160
So we have the capability and the leverage to do so.

803
01:04:12,420 --> 01:04:15,000
They are fully aware, I talked to them again on Saturday

804
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:18,580
to reiterate this point that we will be coming back to them

805
01:04:18,580 --> 01:04:21,160
of what the expectation is moving forward.

806
01:04:21,740 --> 01:04:23,640
But we're trying to not lose sight of the ball here,

807
01:04:23,660 --> 01:04:25,640
which is a property that's been empty for 30 years

808
01:04:26,740 --> 01:04:30,280
that has set in relative blight and is just impervious

809
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:35,560
this asphalt and that the ability to get that taxable would completely dwarf any dollar

810
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:39,740
amount that we talk about for L.T. use, any dollar amount any other way would be getting

811
01:04:39,740 --> 01:04:46,560
this as usable taxable property as well as the amenity that it would provide for folks

812
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:52,280
and neighborhoods like you still and all that that would now have greater access to rooms

813
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:53,100
and we know there's demand.

814
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:58,320
So we're trying to factor all of those things in that is this worth slowing down this process

815
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:03,180
us over getting, taking additional weeks of time to get administrative policy done when

816
01:05:03,180 --> 01:05:07,060
they already agree that they will adhere to whatever that administrative policy would

817
01:05:07,060 --> 01:05:07,180
be.

818
01:05:07,540 --> 01:05:15,260
And I assume that would also be, you'd be considering the term of the L.T.U. and that

819
01:05:15,260 --> 01:05:15,440
would.

820
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:19,180
And that's a conversation that we have to have because if my argument, if I were on the

821
01:05:19,180 --> 01:05:22,620
other side, my argument would be, well, if I'm going to start paying something closer to

822
01:05:22,620 --> 01:05:28,800
market rate and not $1,000 a year, then if I'm spending in this case $250,000 on

823
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:34,160
spaces, then I may not want the city to be able to take those back in a year, you know.

824
01:05:34,260 --> 01:05:39,360
I mean, so I think like any lease, like any negotiation, what are you paying and what kind

825
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:41,940
of obligation would you expect for that?

826
01:05:41,980 --> 01:05:45,940
So I would expect that the closer we get to market rate, which I believe is much needed.

827
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:50,880
There might be conversations where, hey, it's a two-year agreement, a three-year agreement,

828
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:57,060
And not just, I believe right now what is in front of us, I remember correct, is a one-year obligation.

829
01:05:57,220 --> 01:06:02,320
And then we could, they could spend $250,000 in these faces, we could, we could say thank you very much.

830
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:06,300
And then in the year, we're able to take that back, not that that would be our intent.

831
01:06:06,460 --> 01:06:14,240
But I think that's how it's structured currently, is that we do have the ability to opt out of these, these LTEs, these parking LTEs.

832
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:15,600
Okay, thank you.

833
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:17,520
All right, Councilwoman Bray.

834
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,240
I changed my mind, thanks.

835
01:06:20,740 --> 01:06:30,420
Were they asked to hold off on coming before us so that we had an opportunity to iron out our LTE process

836
01:06:30,420 --> 01:06:33,400
while we were investigating here, trying to get the house together?

837
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:35,640
Yeah, we proposed that.

838
01:06:36,540 --> 01:06:38,440
And of course, that would be ideal.

839
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:42,780
But I think it's also to be fair to the developer.

840
01:06:42,780 --> 01:06:47,920
However, I think we administratively have caused some confusion, I think the planning board

841
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:54,320
as an example was a 2-2 vote, there were only 4 people there, and that 2-2 vote I don't

842
01:06:54,320 --> 01:07:00,120
believe in my opinion that that was opposition to this, it was confusion on our side between

843
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:01,680
parking and planning and others.

844
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:10,800
So at the end of the day what I assess is I understand their hesitation, which they shared

845
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:15,400
with me is hey you can say it takes three weeks to get an administrative policy but what

846
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:20,460
if it takes four months what if it takes five months and given their previous experience

847
01:07:20,460 --> 01:07:26,860
that this and this has been going on quite a while that I understand that and they've decided

848
01:07:26,860 --> 01:07:31,340
that they want to. Is it true that they had not contacted the city from

849
01:07:31,340 --> 01:07:40,000
June 2020 to June 2023. I haven't confirmed that. That's what I was planning her for planning.

850
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:45,680
So to me that's the only thing is it's not like they were those all that time they were working with

851
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:53,520
us and so is there is there not ability to to move this to a date certain so that there's time for

852
01:07:53,520 --> 01:08:00,260
the ironing out of the LTE promise and so we say that we promised to bring this back on November

853
01:08:00,260 --> 01:08:05,420
Remember what have you in, I mean, that's what seems reasonable when we're in the midst

854
01:08:05,420 --> 01:08:11,820
of all this investigation and, and, and if they really weren't around for three years

855
01:08:11,820 --> 01:08:17,440
and they come hurrying back and say hurry now and unwilling this wait two weeks or a month.

856
01:08:17,540 --> 01:08:22,160
I get the idea I've not wanted to wait too long but if we postpone to a date certain wouldn't

857
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:29,080
that allow our staff to get it together and make sure we understand exactly the precedent

858
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:34,520
we're setting or moving forward. I also appreciate the blinded piece of property. I don't disregard

859
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:39,600
anything you're saying in that and I think that there is, I just think there's a balancing act

860
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:46,520
here that we don't rush forward with something that then we potentially, even if by law we've

861
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:54,780
covered our rears, we look pretty questionable if we grant them an LTEU that their franchise agreement

862
01:08:54,780 --> 01:08:59,660
as mandated on and then pull the L2U and now they're franchised as part and they can't be

863
01:08:59,660 --> 01:09:03,540
built anymore. Something of that nature. That's what concerns me.

864
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:09,920
Well a couple things I haven't confirmed who they talked on the phone to or emails or whatever

865
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:14,040
over three years. I could tell you you know I was operating a business during COVID and there was

866
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:19,180
a lot of calls that I didn't take for the next year and a half you know after we you know I shut

867
01:09:19,180 --> 01:09:24,680
my building down so I mean I don't know that I would ding them over somehow a lack of

868
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:28,760
interest when, you know, June, starting in June of 2020, but I wasn't there.

869
01:09:28,820 --> 01:09:30,720
I can't speak to where we were.

870
01:09:32,260 --> 01:09:36,520
Here's what I feel they put in writing that they understand in my mind.

871
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:41,820
I'm weighing out the benefit, the significant financial benefit of development.

872
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:44,360
If the question was, we didn't like the development.

873
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:45,920
We didn't like the character of it.

874
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:50,040
We didn't like those things that we want to make sure we all want to make sure we

875
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:54,980
protect and preserve, you know, something that's good and positive for the city.

876
01:09:55,220 --> 01:09:57,300
That doesn't seem to be up for discussion.

877
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:02,080
We're getting into the weeds on 21 spaces of which they will have to invest a quarter

878
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:07,020
million dollars, and I'd make the argument a thousand dollars a year might be a good deal

879
01:10:07,020 --> 01:10:08,000
at that point.

880
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:11,660
I mean, if they were going to put up, if they're willing to put up a quarter million dollars

881
01:10:11,660 --> 01:10:16,320
and they only have a one-year obligation from us of which we could hypothetically walk away,

882
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:21,040
I think that shows their investment, number one, and shows their faith in us that we're

883
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:22,900
going to bring them something reasonable.

884
01:10:23,420 --> 01:10:25,440
I don't think that puts the city in negative leverage.

885
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:29,140
I think that shows that they're committed to this project and that they would do...

886
01:10:29,140 --> 01:10:31,000
I don't know that I'd be willing to do that this time.

887
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:31,820
One more question.

888
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:36,600
If they sell the property, can they transfer these properties to the new owner?

889
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:38,520
These car sponsors?

890
01:10:38,660 --> 01:10:40,240
I would have to look.

891
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,600
That's something that we're talking about in our administrative policy that you would

892
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,020
not be able to convey that without approval.

893
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:48,900
So I can tell you the conversation we're having about.

894
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:50,820
I can't tell you what we've done before,

895
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:53,700
but I don't know if Chair or someone

896
01:10:53,700 --> 01:10:55,280
would or Leslie want to speak to

897
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:58,780
if any of our existing parking LTO policies allow that,

898
01:10:58,900 --> 01:11:00,120
but I can tell you moving forward,

899
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,420
I certainly want to check with me with the city any time

900
01:11:03,420 --> 01:11:06,900
you were due to convey any kind of license to use.

901
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,740
I don't care if that was for the sidewalk or for anything else

902
01:11:09,740 --> 01:11:12,300
is that if it's a new ownership that we would need to vet that.

903
01:11:12,300 --> 01:11:15,620
Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council President, Councilwoman Breyer.

904
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:21,600
Currently the LTEU process that's in the land development code is very generic, and

905
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:24,560
it doesn't speak to the terms of the agreement itself.

906
01:11:25,300 --> 01:11:31,760
What we currently have is that there's a draft of an LTEU document that is executed that

907
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:37,100
was drafted by the City's legal department and is updated frequently over the years to

908
01:11:37,100 --> 01:11:45,260
modernize when needed. It does allow for if there's a new owner that comes in, we have

909
01:11:45,260 --> 01:11:52,660
assigned them to the new owner, but the city is not obligated to do so. LTUs are, as

910
01:11:52,660 --> 01:11:57,900
the mayor said, they are renewed on an annual basis, and the city can without cause actually

911
01:11:58,500 --> 01:12:01,740
revoke them with 90 days notice to the holder.

912
01:12:02,220 --> 01:12:06,660
Okay, one more thing. And I appreciate you not wanting to ding during COVID, but I do

913
01:12:06,660 --> 01:12:09,480
think there's an absence of three years, do you can you verify?

914
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:16,400
I can only verify that as far as email, I think that there was that gap, but I cannot verify

915
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:20,820
whether or not anybody spoke to them on the phone if they reached out to other departments.

916
01:12:21,620 --> 01:12:27,860
It might not be something that we have a written record of, but I can't verify with 100% certainty

917
01:12:27,860 --> 01:12:30,280
whether or not there was communication ever that span.

918
01:12:32,820 --> 01:12:38,500
You said something that trickered my other thought now, being an old this week.

919
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:41,100
I don't know.

920
01:12:42,480 --> 01:12:43,700
I can't think of it right now.

921
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:44,120
Thank you.

922
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:45,300
If you remember, let me know.

923
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:47,840
Councilman Jones.

924
01:12:48,440 --> 01:12:48,560
Yeah.

925
01:12:49,020 --> 01:12:52,640
Just real quick, Mr. Mayor, you mentioned the aesthetics.

926
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,380
And I'm curious, did this go to the ARB already?

927
01:12:55,940 --> 01:12:58,800
I haven't seen any like actual renderings of the building.

928
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:04,300
It wouldn't be in the planning board, it's the planning board, it's the gateway redevelopment

929
01:13:04,300 --> 01:13:06,660
district which goes to the planning board for a static review.

930
01:13:07,300 --> 01:13:12,280
It did go for conceptual approval and I think they're going to be bringing it back next

931
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:14,040
month for review.

932
01:13:17,990 --> 01:13:18,610
Council Member.

933
01:13:19,030 --> 01:13:19,530
Thank you, Mr. President.

934
01:13:20,430 --> 01:13:23,790
I guess I'm a little shocked they're not here because I had questions I'd love to ask

935
01:13:23,790 --> 01:13:24,930
before Thursday.

936
01:13:26,350 --> 01:13:30,190
I would also like to know when they realize that they bought a piece of property was too small

937
01:13:30,190 --> 01:13:37,130
for their hotel. And does this give, I mean, if we had other businesses who, I know we

938
01:13:37,130 --> 01:13:41,950
have other LTEUs. Have we had other businesses that come in at the very beginning when they're

939
01:13:41,950 --> 01:13:46,210
before they build and try and get LTEUs before they build because of a situation like this?

940
01:13:46,490 --> 01:13:47,870
Are you aware of any? Is this more?

941
01:13:48,350 --> 01:13:54,790
Councillor, President, Councillor Mimbaire. We have had, not maybe not parking. Parking is

942
01:13:54,790 --> 01:14:02,050
not a frequent current, but we do have examples of commercial businesses in the city that

943
01:14:02,050 --> 01:14:09,390
have come in and gotten approval for parking because it was their business model was dependent

944
01:14:09,390 --> 01:14:14,690
on having the additional parking in the right of way, as the mayor indicated, it's only

945
01:14:14,690 --> 01:14:20,890
happened a couple of times in the last decade. But we do have businesses that come in and they

946
01:14:20,890 --> 01:14:27,850
want to have, you know, they need to have a balcony or, you know, or administratively that is approved by staff and outdoor seating area.

947
01:14:27,850 --> 01:14:28,350
That's what I'm doing.

948
01:14:28,490 --> 01:14:33,850
Yeah, we do get businesses that they're their business model.

949
01:14:34,130 --> 01:14:41,310
They're, you know, their plans to, you know, to open a business are reliant on their use of the right of way in some form or fashion.

950
01:14:41,810 --> 01:14:45,470
To add to that, Councilman, I mean, let's use a more exaggerated example.

951
01:14:45,470 --> 01:14:49,690
I mean if someone was going to come build, move a 500 employee business here and they had

952
01:14:49,690 --> 01:14:53,410
to have a laboratory of a certain size and they said, well you know we need 21 spaces

953
01:14:53,410 --> 01:14:58,110
or we need 10 spaces or 50 spaces, I mean I think it's certainly within the responsibility

954
01:14:58,110 --> 01:14:59,970
of the city to entertain that idea.

955
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:29,600
We have given the economic development. That's a larger example, but I guess what I'm saying is whatever agreement, a thousand a year, 10,000 a year, 30,000 a year, that they would pay for these spaces, dwarfs in comparison, just the annual revenue we would get as a city from the property tax of a 30 year old blinded vacant lot to now be, you know. So I don't want us to lose sight of the relative value of property tax generation against what?

956
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:33,220
$1,000, $5,000, $10,000 that we would charge for an LTU.

957
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:36,280
And so if that's something in our toolkit,

958
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:38,660
whether it's economic development or Eric is office,

959
01:15:38,700 --> 01:15:40,240
whether it's working on Baptist Hospital,

960
01:15:40,440 --> 01:15:43,840
whether I think part of our economic development toolkit

961
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:45,680
is we should entertain a lot of options,

962
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:46,980
in some of which we say no to.

963
01:15:47,180 --> 01:15:49,320
I mean, if it's, you want too much space in the right away

964
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:51,540
or you want to put something there

965
01:15:51,540 --> 01:15:52,960
that doesn't add to the character of the city,

966
01:15:53,100 --> 01:15:54,920
then it's our job administratively to say

967
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:56,120
that that doesn't make sense for us.

968
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:58,600
So it is always a yes.

969
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:03,080
I think it's coming up with a clear policy, so when it doesn't meet it, we say well then

970
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:06,900
that's not something that we're interested in conveying taxpayer right away too.

971
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:12,140
So I mean, I think using that as an economic development tool is prudent and certainly

972
01:16:12,140 --> 01:16:15,180
something we should entertain if it's proposed to us, doesn't mean we have to do it.

973
01:16:15,300 --> 01:16:22,120
And given the fact that, you know, we've got this one right now, okay, don't you think

974
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:25,420
that this could set a precedent for future businesses wanting to do the same?

975
01:16:25,420 --> 01:16:29,080
And we have a very limited amount of property in the city.

976
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:33,380
I think that's really developable at this point, unlike the county.

977
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:37,780
And so if we want to do economic development, or we're not like saying ourselves up by giving

978
01:16:37,780 --> 01:16:42,180
them these spots for future, you know, just kind of counting on, hey, they got it.

979
01:16:42,260 --> 01:16:43,360
We can get it out to you for that.

980
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:48,700
I would think most developers have been, that would be working on a project of that scale,

981
01:16:48,700 --> 01:16:51,580
have been enough developments to know that everything is different.

982
01:16:51,580 --> 01:16:57,100
I don't think anybody would lack the common sense that would say, well, if you gave 21 spaces

983
01:16:57,100 --> 01:17:00,960
at 13th in Gregory, then I would like 21 spaces on Palafax Street.

984
01:17:01,100 --> 01:17:02,680
I don't think anyone's going to say that.

985
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:07,340
I think you would have a subjective evaluation where you'd say, what are these spaces worth?

986
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:13,680
And that's what are, I feel like the administrative job is right now, administrations, is let's get

987
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:16,280
a market rate value of what these spaces are worth to the taxpayer.

988
01:17:16,660 --> 01:17:19,060
And again, in different divisions and different phases.

989
01:17:19,060 --> 01:17:21,440
is, and then we can make this evaluation.

990
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:23,020
It's no different than a tax abatement.

991
01:17:23,260 --> 01:17:26,040
We would give a tax abatement on X number

992
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:27,080
of affordable housing units.

993
01:17:27,660 --> 01:17:29,600
And we calculate the value of that abatement.

994
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:31,800
And we calculate the value of those number of units.

995
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:34,220
So that's another economic development tool.

996
01:17:34,380 --> 01:17:36,940
So I don't think any developer would come in and say,

997
01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:39,680
well, if those 21 spaces are what you gave,

998
01:17:39,820 --> 01:17:41,940
then I would give 21 spaces exactly here

999
01:17:42,500 --> 01:17:44,080
that anyone would look at it that way.

1000
01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:45,740
Every one of these examples and oranges,

1001
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:47,480
and it depends on what you're doing.

1002
01:17:47,480 --> 01:17:56,020
If someone wants to build a $200 million building and they need two spaces on LTU, I will strongly consider that if they need 200 spaces of our city

1003
01:17:56,020 --> 01:18:02,840
I will not do that. You know, and so that's I think there's no other way to treat this but subjectively

1004
01:18:03,460 --> 01:18:08,320
Because every proposal subjective. It's on a different piece of property. It's located in a different part of the city

1005
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:14,120
So I would I would not suspect that developers would would look at it so rigidly as you gave 21 here

1006
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:16,240
So you must get 21 in our space.

1007
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:18,160
I think they'll see that we'll entertain it.

1008
01:18:18,480 --> 01:18:21,620
And then we make the evaluation of what's good for the city.

1009
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:22,460
You know, move forward.

1010
01:18:22,740 --> 01:18:32,800
And Mr. Mayor, do you think that by not having this on the agenda, on the Thursday night that this would hurt the chances of this being, you know,

1011
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:34,300
of this happening on this piece of property?

1012
01:18:34,380 --> 01:18:39,880
Because I kind of feel like Councilwoman Breyer, that it just seems like we're getting our process worked out for in the forward.

1013
01:18:40,620 --> 01:18:48,940
Here's what I would say it would take if the debate is what should be charged for these

1014
01:18:48,940 --> 01:18:49,520
LTEUs.

1015
01:18:50,140 --> 01:18:53,960
I don't know how many decades it would take for that revenue to match what we would get

1016
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:54,640
in property tax.

1017
01:18:55,260 --> 01:18:58,640
And that has been my evaluation is we're looking at a risk-reward situation.

1018
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:05,720
If our concern is how are we going to calculate spaces moving forward and if your vote is

1019
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:09,420
no on that because you'd rather them wait for that administrative policy first even

1020
01:19:09,420 --> 01:19:12,460
and though in writing they've acknowledged that they'll have to adhere to it.

1021
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:19,660
I certainly understand that, but what I'm saying is, are you willing to risk, I could

1022
01:19:19,660 --> 01:19:22,920
never answer that, and only the developer could answer that, and certainly I'm sure you

1023
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:27,420
could ask them on Thursday, am I willing to risk a multi-billion dollar development that

1024
01:19:27,420 --> 01:19:33,840
would dwarf any LTU in perpetuity, type of revenue that we would get and take the gamble

1025
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:40,000
that two more months of a hotel flag that needs to know if you're going to do it or not.

1026
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:44,260
I just don't know if the risk is worth the reward, I guess, is to answer your question.

1027
01:19:44,420 --> 01:19:49,300
It's not that your argument is invalid, but why would we be delaying it and why would

1028
01:19:49,300 --> 01:19:55,420
we even be flirting with the risk that a 30-year vacant piece of property doesn't get built

1029
01:19:55,420 --> 01:19:58,600
on because of something that they've already agreed that they'd be willing to do?

1030
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:12,940
So that's my job is to evaluate the risk and the reward, and I just don't see enough risk on the side of not letting this move forward to potentially jeopardize the reward of a development on a blind piece of property.

1031
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:24,380
I mean, that's just my thing, and so I'd rather this see move forward, and if people are concerned, if you're concerned about that, under that logic, I understand where you're coming from.

1032
01:20:24,380 --> 01:20:25,060
Okay, thank you.

1033
01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:25,600
Thank you.

1034
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:25,860
Mr. President.

1035
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:26,120
All right.

1036
01:20:27,380 --> 01:20:28,340
Council Member Breyer.

1037
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:29,660
One more question for you.

1038
01:20:30,260 --> 01:20:32,760
We haven't done this on new builds traditionally, correct?

1039
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:33,820
No.

1040
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:40,460
There is one of the two more recent ones was on 12th Avenue, and it's in conjunction with a restaurant

1041
01:20:40,460 --> 01:20:44,280
that is going to be a new business in there.

1042
01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:45,800
But a new business, but old building?

1043
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:47,320
Correct, correct, yes.

1044
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:48,000
That's what I believe.

1045
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:49,820
That's why you said it's a rough perspective.

1046
01:20:49,820 --> 01:20:54,000
I think retrofitting to old buildings in areas that there wasn't more.

1047
01:20:54,180 --> 01:21:00,480
The two most recent ones, yes, were retrofitting existing sites that were already constructed

1048
01:21:00,480 --> 01:21:02,920
with new businesses.

1049
01:21:04,260 --> 01:21:11,660
And most of that, I guess, would mean that, as far as the tax break or abatements, I think

1050
01:21:11,660 --> 01:21:16,120
we've only had one to keep things affordable housing from when I talked to Chris Jones.

1051
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:23,320
there's only one in it. It lasted for less than two years. And then the price is skyrocketed.

1052
01:21:23,740 --> 01:21:31,240
So we've not been very successful on that one at all. And I get the idea of not wanting to

1053
01:21:31,900 --> 01:21:40,560
suppress development. I'm just a bit taken by a company looking to build this big. I think that most

1054
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:48,920
all the others, if not all the others, have built to their size property and made it work.

1055
01:21:49,340 --> 01:21:55,760
That's where this one troubles me a bit with the rush a little bit after the delay delay delay.

1056
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:58,560
Now let's hurry up, we can't wait two weeks when they were asked to.

1057
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:05,400
From an agenda conference standpoint, I would say certainly I don't want to get too far out in front of speaking for them.

1058
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:08,640
I mean, this delay in three years, I mean, I would ask them that.

1059
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:13,360
I don't want to, yeah, well, and, I mean, it's on the agenda at this point.

1060
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:17,440
I think you'll have the opportunity to ask them that, fair enough.

1061
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:23,300
All I'm saying is, again, let's look at this as, let's bracket out the revenue stream.

1062
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:28,000
If what we're saying is on, I mean, eight of these spaces don't exist, they're under, right?

1063
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:33,400
So all, there's 13 that are on broken asphalt that we aren't maintaining as it sits today.

1064
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:35,900
They'll spend a quarter million dollars putting those in.

1065
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:41,280
Is it a bigger revenue stream for the city, for them to be a little bit larger?

1066
01:22:41,580 --> 01:22:44,280
And being an area that is not power fox, that's not Jefferson.

1067
01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:49,680
And for that to have another floor or another X number of rooms and have another million

1068
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:53,940
dollars in taxable value on that property, is that more valuable?

1069
01:22:54,260 --> 01:23:01,120
Or have them have a million or two million dollars less taxable property, but fit those

1070
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:03,660
those spaces on their property.

1071
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:08,060
I mean, and that's the financial evaluation that you'd be making is you'd say, well, we're

1072
01:23:08,060 --> 01:23:13,160
going to take a million plus less taxable dollars to ensure that they have 21 spaces of

1073
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:15,400
non-used current property.

1074
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:18,520
But we don't want them to have that.

1075
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:20,540
So let's make sure that they build it smaller.

1076
01:23:20,860 --> 01:23:21,720
So that's less taxable.

1077
01:23:22,440 --> 01:23:23,780
Not saying which way is right or wrong.

1078
01:23:23,900 --> 01:23:25,840
I just mean that would be the evaluation I'd be making.

1079
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:31,820
I guess you can't take out the public's still using this property.

1080
01:23:31,900 --> 01:23:37,440
I know not as often and not as, but it is parked on every week, even the crap parking.

1081
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:43,560
So I mean there is that a little bit, I mean even on the broken road and the gravel it

1082
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:48,740
is a little bit, it is used and it's used weekly and some, we're just trying to bounce

1083
01:23:48,740 --> 01:23:50,180
it all out and that's all.

1084
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:54,920
And under that logic, if a local restaurant that uses it every Saturday and Sunday, if

1085
01:23:54,920 --> 01:24:00,800
If your concern is new development, they have their own parking, have they approached

1086
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:06,100
us about using those, or getting, I'm not sure what the, I believe they've asked, you

1087
01:24:06,100 --> 01:24:12,580
know, what the process entailed, but they've not submitted anything or requested to have

1088
01:24:12,580 --> 01:24:13,600
exclusive use of that.

1089
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:18,480
So I mean right now it's free city on spaces of which hasn't been requested.

1090
01:24:19,540 --> 01:24:25,480
So, to now say, well, because people use it, you know, that's an obligation that we

1091
01:24:25,480 --> 01:24:29,940
already have. I don't think it is an obligation we already have, you know, at this point.

1092
01:24:30,140 --> 01:24:34,520
So, I wasn't really meaning to the business. I'm not talking about the business. I'm talking

1093
01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:35,160
about to the people.

1094
01:24:35,460 --> 01:24:35,560
Right.

1095
01:24:36,740 --> 01:24:43,820
And I know what that I'm really MDBating those two, that to the public has been using, but that's

1096
01:24:43,820 --> 01:24:43,900
all.

1097
01:24:44,940 --> 01:24:45,180
I'm good.

1098
01:24:46,340 --> 01:24:54,140
I've locked that road for 39 years, almost many, many, many, many, many times, and I rarely

1099
01:24:54,140 --> 01:24:56,660
see other than Saturday or Sunday, anybody down there.

1100
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:02,000
So I understand that, I understand this is a value of, this is an asset of the city

1101
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:07,380
of which we are considering giving away, but we can't, in my mind, be blind to what else

1102
01:25:07,380 --> 01:25:07,760
has happened.

1103
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:10,960
And there's reputation in order here, too.

1104
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:15,160
I mean, are we a city that you can develop in or that you can invest in or not?

1105
01:25:15,580 --> 01:25:21,540
And these are the types of granular things that if there, we should always defend ourselves

1106
01:25:21,540 --> 01:25:22,120
for character.

1107
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:26,240
We should defend ourselves and it's a value to the taxpayer always, and I always feel

1108
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:26,620
that way.

1109
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:31,940
But it's also our job to see the force through the trees here and say that this is a significant

1110
01:25:31,940 --> 01:25:37,800
development on a blind piece of property, and they've agreed that they're going to adhere

1111
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:39,200
to whatever we come up with.

1112
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:43,800
If they had not said that, if they said we refuse to, we only want to pay $1,000 a year

1113
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:46,400
or we're not interested, then we would tell them we're not interested.

1114
01:25:46,980 --> 01:25:50,980
They have committed whatever the new policy is going to be that they're going to do.

1115
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:57,200
So I just don't see why we would jeopardize this type of multi-million dollar development at this point.

1116
01:25:57,560 --> 01:26:03,780
Unless it was a character issue, unless it was something that we thought was not a good use for our city or something like that.

1117
01:26:04,420 --> 01:26:05,400
That's just where I'm at.

1118
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:09,900
So again, certainly understand the questions and I know they might understand and they'll

1119
01:26:09,900 --> 01:26:12,680
have someone here Thursday to be able to discuss it.

1120
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:12,880
Jim?

1121
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:20,480
I had a question, I guess there's some of the discussion here, maybe my planning board

1122
01:26:20,480 --> 01:26:23,100
chops have gotten rusty, so I've since we got this more here.

1123
01:26:23,580 --> 01:26:29,540
Could you talk about the difference between a vacation or right away and a license to use

1124
01:26:29,540 --> 01:26:31,900
what are the differences between those two things?

1125
01:26:31,900 --> 01:26:34,160
Yes, certainly Council President, Council Member.

1126
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:41,220
When you are requesting a license to use, it is more of a, for lack of a better word

1127
01:26:41,220 --> 01:26:41,580
temporary.

1128
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:47,500
It's not, you're not being a sure permanent control of the right of way.

1129
01:26:47,580 --> 01:26:48,920
It remains city right of way.

1130
01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:51,320
It remains dedicated public right of way.

1131
01:26:51,740 --> 01:26:57,180
Even if you do have an exclusive right to control how it is used per the terms of the agreement

1132
01:26:57,180 --> 01:26:58,500
that's executed with city.

1133
01:26:58,500 --> 01:27:05,180
When you vacate right away, the city can't sell right away, like you can't real property.

1134
01:27:05,820 --> 01:27:09,920
So it goes to the planning board and it comes before this body in a public hearing.

1135
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:16,720
And if city council opts to vacate right away, it is automatically returned to the adjacent

1136
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:21,760
property owner, the portion that they requested to have vacated adjacent to their property.

1137
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:25,440
And it becomes real property and it's returned to the tax rules.

1138
01:27:25,940 --> 01:27:26,240
Okay.

1139
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:33,060
All right. We're not given away. This, this is a LTOU license to use. So we're, they're asking

1140
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:38,140
what would they come back and renew then on a regular basis that use?

1141
01:27:38,580 --> 01:27:44,880
We generally, we just send out a renewal and enable waste annually for them to pay their fee and renew

1142
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:51,020
with any type of license to use agreement. And as long as there's not an issue with it that causes

1143
01:27:51,020 --> 01:27:55,900
the city to take action to revoke it, then that's just something that occurs on an annual basis.

1144
01:27:56,240 --> 01:27:57,760
on the anniversary of the approval.

1145
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:00,400
All right, that helps clarify it for me.

1146
01:28:00,500 --> 01:28:01,060
Thank you so much.

1147
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:01,800
All right.

1148
01:28:02,140 --> 01:28:02,680
Thank you.

1149
01:28:03,900 --> 01:28:04,680
Move it on.

1150
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:05,140
Thank you.

1151
01:28:05,900 --> 01:28:11,880
Moving on to item number 11, is 23-00804.

1152
01:28:12,260 --> 01:28:14,740
Fourth, addendum to the partial assignment

1153
01:28:14,740 --> 01:28:17,800
of the Valencia Development Corporation of the option

1154
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:19,640
agreement between the City of Pensacola

1155
01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:21,780
and the Student Properties LLP.

1156
01:28:21,780 --> 01:28:22,820
Item

1157
01:28:25,350 --> 01:28:33,550
number 12 is 23-00806, 4th Addendum to the Partial Assignment to Inspire Communities

1158
01:28:33,550 --> 01:28:38,730
of Florida LLC of the Option Agreement between the City of Pensacola and Stood Apropies

1159
01:28:38,730 --> 01:28:39,490
LLP.

1160
01:28:42,550 --> 01:28:53,210
Item number 13 is 23-00743, FEMA FY 2023 Port Security Grant Program, Acceptance of Grant

1161
01:28:53,210 --> 01:29:00,830
at number EMW2023PU00455 Mobile Command Center.

1162
01:29:03,410 --> 01:29:08,490
Item number 14 is 2023-079 Supplemental

1163
01:29:08,490 --> 01:29:17,650
Budget Resolution Number 2023-079, FEMA FY 2023 Port Security Grant Program. Grant

1164
01:29:17,650 --> 01:29:24,750
at number EMW2023-PU-00455 Mobile Command Center.

1165
01:29:27,810 --> 01:29:37,210
Item number 15 is 2023-081 Supplemental Budget Resolution Number 2023-081 to recognize

1166
01:29:37,210 --> 01:29:43,910
I see all the municipal golf course FY 2023 revenue add

1167
01:29:46,310 --> 01:29:46,790
-ons done.

1168
01:29:46,990 --> 01:29:50,260
No, sir, no add-ons.

1169
01:29:50,500 --> 01:29:51,460
All right.

1170
01:29:52,460 --> 01:29:53,780
No discussion.

1171
01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:54,760
Madam Clerk.

1172
01:29:55,560 --> 01:29:59,880
Council president items two through nine will be on the consent agenda.

1173
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:06,540
agenda and items 10-15 beyond the regular agenda. Thank you. See the administrative communication.

1174
01:30:06,980 --> 01:30:27,720
Yes, sir. Council President, I just wanted to thank you and Chief Cranger and Habitat and Red Cross for successful smoke alarm Saturday. I think to date, we've given out just over 100 smoke alarms, so making some great progress with the program. So, absolutely. And thank you, guys.

1175
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:32,240
And we gave out three bedshakers, so that was great.

1176
01:30:32,340 --> 01:30:36,400
A bedshaker, Chief Kranner, I don't want to mess this up

1177
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:38,160
and try and explain what a bedshaker is.

1178
01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:43,160
So can you come up and let us know about these three

1179
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:45,860
bedshakers that we gave out?

1180
01:30:47,100 --> 01:30:48,900
You know, I'll put a quarter in it.

1181
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:51,040
That's not what you think.

1182
01:30:52,060 --> 01:30:54,420
Council President, I understand the concern

1183
01:30:54,420 --> 01:30:56,560
for the industry term, bedshaker.

1184
01:30:56,560 --> 01:31:02,760
It is actually for those that had a hearing impairment and it actually will shake the bed

1185
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:07,720
It does partner and pair with a smoke alarm. So when the smoke alarm activates in the house

1186
01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:10,900
It's kind of like a bedside alarm that shakes the bed

1187
01:31:11,700 --> 01:31:17,780
And we installed one and it's the first one I've ever seen so we've never had them. We're excited about it

1188
01:31:17,780 --> 01:31:20,340
And in general, and I've received he's a disabled better

1189
01:31:20,340 --> 01:31:24,500
So he's really excited about it. So thank you. Thank you

1190
01:31:24,500 --> 01:31:25,720
Appreciate it.

1191
01:31:26,260 --> 01:31:27,880
City Attorney's Communication.

1192
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:29,080
No, you're right.

1193
01:31:29,460 --> 01:31:29,900
All right.

1194
01:31:30,340 --> 01:31:31,000
Well, you say you are.

1195
01:31:31,780 --> 01:31:32,480
I'm sorry.

1196
01:31:34,960 --> 01:31:35,680
I'm sorry.

1197
01:31:36,140 --> 01:31:36,260
I'm sorry.

1198
01:31:36,260 --> 01:31:36,280
I'm sorry.

1199
01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:36,800
There's no reaction.

1200
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:40,120
City Council Communication.

1201
01:31:41,580 --> 01:31:42,180
No?

1202
01:31:42,500 --> 01:31:43,040
I did it.

1203
01:31:43,280 --> 01:31:43,820
Yeah, I'm sorry.

1204
01:31:44,020 --> 01:31:44,400
Oh, okay.

1205
01:31:45,220 --> 01:31:46,100
Council Member Breyer.

1206
01:31:46,220 --> 01:31:48,000
I'd like to say that we had...

1207
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:49,320
City Kites Neighborhood Association

1208
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:51,280
had their annual trunker treat.

1209
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:58,940
this past Saturday with over 850 truck trucker treaters, not including their

1210
01:31:58,940 --> 01:32:03,660
parents. Fire was out, thank you so much Chief Cranger, they had a great time,

1211
01:32:03,900 --> 01:32:08,180
honestly they loved, they loved the fire truck out there, there were few trucks

1212
01:32:08,180 --> 01:32:12,320
and the new equipment I just want to say this was their first

1213
01:32:12,320 --> 01:32:16,260
trunker treat with the new equipment in Belvedere, so they loved that. I mean

1214
01:32:16,260 --> 01:32:22,580
I mean, honestly, it was an incredible 850, you've got two parents or so with some of

1215
01:32:22,580 --> 01:32:28,660
these single kids, and I mean, this was a massive crowd, so it went excellently, and

1216
01:32:29,180 --> 01:32:31,200
they're already talking about next year's plans.

1217
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:31,840
Awesome.

1218
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:39,340
And one other quick thing, I want to congratulate the mayor for being accepted on the Escarosa

1219
01:32:39,340 --> 01:32:44,040
board, by the HRS Florida, that was very excited for that.

1220
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:48,380
And we talked about, there's so many projects that we have in the city,

1221
01:32:48,940 --> 01:32:51,980
ones that we're directly involved in, think about SD engineering and others,

1222
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:55,440
where half the battle is having that kind of business here,

1223
01:32:55,460 --> 01:33:00,320
and the other half is making sure that there's the workforce there for us to realize that benefit.

1224
01:33:00,900 --> 01:33:03,620
And so yeah, very excited, honored to do that.

1225
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:06,320
And I've already been in conversation with Dr. McBride,

1226
01:33:06,780 --> 01:33:09,380
and I know we'll be reaching out to a lot of the folks in our community

1227
01:33:09,380 --> 01:33:14,720
that are in the workforce business to see make sure that we're at the state of

1228
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:19,040
Florida that we're advocating for the greatest policies and opportunities for us

1229
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:21,480
to build a workforce here. So yeah, thank you for that.

1230
01:33:22,060 --> 01:33:24,460
Congratulations, and we got your present before you hit.

1231
01:33:24,860 --> 01:33:29,900
I'm sorry. Just as you remind your all council members were currently in open

1232
01:33:29,900 --> 01:33:35,420
enrollment for your benefits package, even if you're not getting insurance, you need

1233
01:33:35,420 --> 01:33:40,620
We need to go on to Neil Gug because you have life insurance, you have to name a beneficiary

1234
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:41,720
for that.

1235
01:33:42,120 --> 01:33:49,720
So if you have any issues with it, contact me or Angela Chanel with a city and she can help walk you through it.

1236
01:33:50,020 --> 01:33:50,200
All right.

1237
01:33:50,600 --> 01:33:52,680
And it's due about October 31st.

1238
01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:54,340
October 31st.

1239
01:33:54,340 --> 01:33:55,740
October 31st is a deadline.

1240
01:33:56,300 --> 01:33:56,540
Okay.

1241
01:33:56,900 --> 01:33:57,280
All right.

1242
01:33:57,480 --> 01:33:57,840
Thank you.

1243
01:33:58,000 --> 01:33:58,520
We adjourned.

1244
01:33:58,740 --> 01:33:59,140
Thanks.

1245
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:02,260
We don't find any of them.