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All right, is it's now four o'clock? I will call the order, call the city of Prince

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Albert Executive Committee, regular meeting, council meeting to order at four o'clock.

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Before we begin, of course, we will start that we recognize that Prince Albert is located

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within the tree six territory and is the homeland of Dakota and Métis. We extend our respect to

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all indigenous people for their valuable past and present contributions, and recognize

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and respect the culture of diversity within the City of Prince Albert.

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With that, we do have the approval of the agenda on the screen.

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There is one change as the verbal presentation for four units as a right under 7.2.

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We'll be by Director Craig Gillinger, Director of Community Development, not listed as Michael

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Nelson.

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Councilor Ring?

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Yes, I'll move the approval of the agenda.

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Thank you.

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Any discussion?

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I see none.

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That vote is now open,

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and that vote passes unanimously.

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Thank you. Any next on the agenda is the Declaration of Conflict of Interest, and I think

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called Members of Council know what that's about. Has anyone have anything to declare on today's agenda?

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Okay. I see none. Thank you.

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adoption of minutes.

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Sorry,

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Councillor Brown. Thank you, Deputy Mayor, I'll move the minutes.

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Thank you, sir. Any discussion on the minutes?

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Okay, that vote is now open and

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that also passes

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unanimously.

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All right. Next is reports of administration and committees.

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What is the

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the will of council.

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Sorry. Oh, I missed consent agenda. My apologies. Consent agenda.

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What is the will of council?

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Council pronto. I'll move the one item on the consent agenda.

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Thank you. Any discussion?

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Moving right along.

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That vote is now open and

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that also passes

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as you know, honestly.

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And now, reports of administration committees,

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7.1, chief funding application,

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project approval, report 25-363.

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We have a PowerPoint presentation

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by Director of Public Works, Jeff De Silva.

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Thank you, Director.

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I'll get that ready for you in a second.

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Okay, Director, it's ready.

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Good evening, Mayor and Council.

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I'm happy to give you a quick presentation tonight

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on our request for approval to submit two projects forward on shift funding.

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And as this application also relates to the second item on the agenda tonight,

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I'm happy to give a little bit of context for the rationale and

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reasons why we think is administration that we need to be applicable for shift funding.

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So let's start with a very brief history of the city's wastewater treatment plant.

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The original portion of the plant was built in 1972 that was able to provide basic primary

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treatment with subsequent add-on projects in 1999 and 2009 to add secondary treatment

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and UV disinfection respectively.

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The oldest portions of the plant are now reaching 53 years of age with virtually every part

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of the plant now beyond normal service life, as well as being beyond standard upgrade timelines.

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So over the years, there have been some major failures of critical components of the plant,

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requiring significant budget asks as well as, you know, posing the potential for risks to the

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environment. So in preparation for these upgrades that were planning to apply for,

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For operations has been doing prioritized maintenance in order to ensure the plant is in good operating condition for staff, operations, as well as to be prepared for significant upgrades.

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As this facility is well beyond the normal time for upgrades, this will ultimately mean that any delays to upgrades are going to lead to further infrastructure degradation, as well as significantly increase costs to rehabilitate any degraded work.

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So here's an upgrades overview.

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The project was broken into three phases,

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likely to take most of a decade to complete.

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Phase one is reaching 90% design.

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So this includes the headworks building,

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the surge pond, generator building,

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as well as some tunnels to house various piping and processes.

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Tender and award could occur as early as summer or fall,

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All 2026, depending on funding and operational readiness.

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We're working with a total project estimate of $80 million for completion.

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This will include construction, some vital contingency, as well as construction management and oversight.

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Should the city be successful in obtaining shift funding, this would provide a combined $36.7 million in federal and provincial funding.

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Our view with the remaining to be funded through the city's utility.

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Our view is that funding is absolutely critical as it will result in a significant savings

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to utility customers estimated to be in the range of $2.8 million annually.

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Additionally, with high level projection to complete upgrades in the $150 to $250 million range,

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is important that the city secure and direct as much external funding as possible for mandatory upgrades.

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So in addition to the capital construction submission that we're proposing, we're also proposing to submit on funding for,

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I should say, for subsequent phases of design.

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So it's estimated to be in the range of $4 to $6 million in design fees.

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This design would occur at the same time as the Phase I construction in order to be prepared for subsequent funding opportunities as well as to pick up at the end pick up with subsequent construction at the end of the Phase I construction.

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With that, I'm happy to take any questions from Council for executive committee.

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Thank you, Director. I'll open up the floor to Council.

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will start with Councillor Leeowicz,

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when you're answer.

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Chair and question through to the director.

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So you just for clarification, utility fund is funded by the water bills, right?

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Correct.

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How much per year typically goes in there and what's sitting in that account right now, do you

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know?

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What's the total operational budget?

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Yeah.

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Oh, jeez.

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I think we're talking total operational budget in the, oh my goodness, I'd be giving you

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number that I'd have to pull out of there.

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We can get that later.

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In the report, states that we have the capacity

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to treat 40 million liters of sewage per day.

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Do you know roughly how much we actually do treat per day?

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On average, you'd probably be treating about half of that.

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But what you need to be able to design for is for surges.

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So peak days that would occur.

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When we get big storms through the city,

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those tend to increase the flow to the waste water treatment plant considerably.

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You could easily see flows in excess of double that amount at a given time,

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hence the addition of a surge pond at the headwork's end of the facility.

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Yeah, no good. I just, I know from my work history,

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typically when we look at things like that,

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that you want to run your maximum at 150% of your typical capacity, so that's good to

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work about half that.

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So for all three phases, looking around that 250 million mark, is that like just renovations

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to the current facility?

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Are there additions?

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Is that an entirely new build to portions of it?

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So what would be, what would be planning to add as a third stream?

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So currently there's two two process streams. So when it comes in it's split into two to go through the entire plant

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With the exception of the UV at the back end. So we in the end what we would add on is a third stream

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To be able to handle higher flows as well as to be able to handle future development and growth for the city

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Okay, and with these new additions how how much capacity does that add to our

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That part hasn't been designed yet so what we're tackling is the front end right now as well as the worst so we're kind of we've staged it for worst first for our design.

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One of the biggest components that we have as a challenge is meeting those peak flows during storm events.

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as well as our our head works is is basically really requires

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upgrade and some TLC on it so okay and then we had conversations in earlier

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meetings about one of the roofs out at the water treatment plant I believe was

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that or am I we both repairs to a roof at the water treatment plant yeah that was

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That was put in for budget this year, just as an under run operating budget.

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Okay, so that won't fall within any of these, okay?

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And then once phase one is completed, I'm just thinking in the sense where we run into issues with funding.

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Once phase one construction is complete, does that kind of lock us into phase two and

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three, or is that an upgrade that can run on its own while we figure out the funding?

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Yeah, they'll be separate, they'll be separate distinct projects.

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In the end, the facility is at a state where it really shouldn't sit between.

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Hence why we want to get design going so that we can be in a position for funding.

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Any time that the parts of the plant that we aren't tackling for upgrades sits for longer.

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You're going to see infrastructure degradation and that's just going to lead to growth of costs.

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So, but they are distinct so we will be able to utilize the new construction of phase one, well phase two and three are in design design, okay, perfect, thank you.

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Thank you, Councillor Laywitz. Next in the queue we have Councillor Head.

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Thank you, Deputy Mayor. And thank you, Director De Silva, for the information and the PowerPoint presentation here. And you made a good point.

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I thought the other motion or the other piece of business would have happened before this one because I as I understand it this application is dependent upon and agreeing or

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Changing our by-laws to include the four units as a right

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So I thought maybe the two should have been presented before this one

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But nonetheless because it's one of those things that it's a Hobson's choice. We don't really have a choice here

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This has been on the radar at least since 2020 and maybe longer

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So happy, I'm happy to finally see some funding model come forward to this.

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But I guess the question I do have is, what guarantees that we have that we're going to get this funding?

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If we make the changes, I know I'm preempting the next motion, but is there any guarantees that we have here?

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I mean, it's subject to funding approval as any of our other.

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So it's not guaranteed that we're going to get the funding?

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No, but it is specifically, it is the type of project that is specifically called out within the program for funding approvals.

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And that's another thing, I'm looking at the program Canada's Housing Infrastructure Fund.

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So now here we are talking about a wastewater treatment plant, not necessarily about housing.

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And I guess that's the come, but it's weird how they rolled this out this program.

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But I'm happy to see that, that we're able to look at moving and

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making some changes to our wastewater treatment plant because I know it's been a concern for quite some time.

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Now, you mentioned about 90% of the design rates.

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Is that for phase one you're talking about?

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That's right.

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And does that include, I guess, the costing model?

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We'll be getting a cost estimate as part of our 90% design submission from our consultant.

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Okay. And I guess you mentioned in the report, I also see the Canadian Community's Building

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Fund as well mentioned that we can divert. And I guess, you know, maybe to the city manager,

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where is that fund? Because I know we have it earmarked this year and possibly for next

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as well, is there plans that that fund will be ongoing to pass that or any information

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on that. Yeah, there's already a motion on the floor that the $12 million is earmarked

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for our current leisure center, but that's for our first five years. The second five years

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is not earmarked because we don't know that distinctive amount of money yet. Just to follow

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a question, when, how long is that earmarked to, to 2027 or is it? It's five years, so it's

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It started 2025, like 24-25, and then for five years.

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Thanks.

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I have another question I thought.

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But maybe it's more related to the next motion as well.

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So thank you for those answers and responses.

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And thanks for the report.

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Thank you, Councillor Head.

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And next we have Mayor Polonski.

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Thank you, Deputy Mayor, and thank you, Director.

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I would have kind of circled back into Councillor Heads and Councillor Laywood's questions.

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The first question I'm asking is when we're over capacity are we releasing sewage into

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the environment?

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At some point when the surge reaches above a certain capacity and point, then yes, it does

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have to go to the environment.

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And that makes admission critical, really.

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The second question I have is to the director of finance or to the mayor.

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What are our current levies, generate annually?

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Do we know that amount?

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Current levies are utility bills?

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Or utility bills, sorry.

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Yeah, I'm not sure if the director did that.

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We don't have that number for you, we don't have to get that.

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Okay, now I also understand that on some of the media information there is also the potential

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of another $13 million to the project, which would increase our grant funding to 50.

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And I've forgotten what fund that is, but is that in the works as well?

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In previous discussions, it was possibly up to $50 million that we'd be getting in funding

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that we can apply to this project?

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So for this round of shift funding, the total approved project value is up to $50 million.

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Okay.

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So then the $36.7 million is the provincial and federal share of that.

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Okay, and I'm sorry, where is the balance?

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So then the balance above that for the remainder of the project cost comes from the would have to be funded through the utility.

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I see. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Director, for those answers. Next in the queue, we have Councillor Kilmer.

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Thank you very much. And thank you very much for the presentation and the report. Very clear.

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Just to answer the question, it wasn't really a question, but wondering that Councillor Head had originally the government did the federal government did come through with this funding, but it was housing only did not include infrastructure.

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infrastructure and through work through Suma and FCM, they were able to get them to shift

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to have an understanding that infrastructure you can't have housing without infrastructure,

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and so they did change it, then I just don't know the year.

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But I am actually willing to move this recommendation, but I would like to add a point three.

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Go ahead.

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So,

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that admin administration prepare a communication plan that includes a video explanation

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or includes video explaining the connection between the chief eligibility, zoning amendments

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and infrastructure funding.

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Can you get you to repeat that, please, Councillor?

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So that admin prepare or develop a communications plan that includes video I

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guess to explain chip

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eligibility funding

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comma zoning amendments and

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infrastructure planning and infrastructure can just be infrastructure.

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Thank you.

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The motion is as you want to know. Thank you.

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Okay. So we did have that moved in our queue. We do have Councillor Edwards followed by Councillor

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Brown.

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Thank you, Deputy Mayor. Thanks, Jeff, for the report. And I appreciate number

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three there. I think it's very important to explain to the public what's going on with both

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of these motions.

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So, Jeff, we have been doing a lot of repairs to the wastewater treatment

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plan and that's been in the budget for several years and increasing. So with this first part,

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first phase, how much will we save? Do we know how much we'll save on the repairs that we're

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currently doing?

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So the repairs that we've currently been doing aren't mostly aren't items that are

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covered by phase one construction. What they are is to ensure that the plant is stable and ready

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For when we do construction because at certain points of the of the construction you will have to take a

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Treatment stream down and you want we want we want to ensure that the plant as it is

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Can handle that through the extent of the of the repair

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Subsequent phases of the construction will touch on the clarifiers and the binary actors et cetera

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Once those are upgraded or rehabilitated, then in the end, yes, your maintenance costs

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will go down considerably.

240
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So the first phase here is to create that new stream, once that's end to incorporate

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growth, but the growth isn't there.

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So are we able to operate just on the, you know, with this one that we're building and another,

243
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and then we'll should save money over time

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because the growth isn't there, can we shut the one down?

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So the first phase really deals with the plants' headworks

246
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is one of the items that requires an upgrade first.

247
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The surge pond will enable us to be able to handle peak events

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during rainfalls.

249
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and by virtue of having that ability to divert to a surge pond you will

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increase your capacity through that plant through the plant overall because

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anything that goes above what we can currently treat will be

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diverted into the surge pond. It isn't it isn't specifically phase one isn't

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specifically required to handle growth I guess. Okay okay but once the phase one is

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done, we're not saving money on the maintenance.

255
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You will be saving money on the components that have been either made obsolete, like the

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head works of the plant.

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And then as the upgrades continue, you will see operational savings for items that don't

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need nearly as much maintenance work.

259
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All right.

260
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Okay.

261
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:40,840
Thank you.

262
00:23:44,290 --> 00:23:45,410
Councillor Browell.

263
00:23:46,850 --> 00:23:47,290
Yes.

264
00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:48,390
Thank you, Deputy Mayor.

265
00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:48,510
there.

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00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:59,990
To the Mr. Decivil. Council agrees to meet legislative standards, meet the

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terms and gist. Everything under number two there. What does all that mean? I'm looking

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at it. It seems to me that all of its tied to 7.2 where we have to agree to 7.2 that

269
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to do all this stuff, pardon my ignorance, but I don't know what all of number two means.

270
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Could you explain that to me?

271
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:25,030
Yeah.

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00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:32,550
So, in order to be able to submit for this funding application, administration requires

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a motion of council that speaks to those items specifically.

274
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:45,120
Yeah, I understand that asking you for this approval somewhat goes ahead of the zoning change

275
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that makes this eligible for the funding, but I did want to give you the context of the

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reason and rationale behind why we feel that funding is really important for the waste

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water treatment plan.

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I get to funding part, but there is a lot of stuff that says Council agrees to, and I don't

279
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know what these legislators standards mean, and all the other stuff with the CHIF program

280
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So, I don't really like voting on this one prior to meeting the four units as a right because it seems to me that the federal government is kind of making us do something to get funding.

281
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On my opinion as a voter and everything else, you know, the federal government works for me.

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but they're telling me you have to do this if you want to funding so it's a hard

283
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pill to swallow for from my opinion I don't like the way this whole thing reads

284
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I'm having a lot of struggles with with the way this is all coming out so I was

285
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Sorry, options to recommendations that administration proceed with the waste water treatment plant upgrades and design.

286
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:28,720
Without applying for this CHIF funding, why wouldn't we go with their option?

287
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Is there other than financial, is there something why why we wouldn't the main the main reason that we would want to achieve funding?

288
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is the financials. It's a significant difference in the total debt payment that the utility will

289
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have to fund for this phase of an upgrade. So the way I'm reading into this is it's a 2.8 million

290
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dollar difference but without them forcing us to agree to a different thing, right? Like where do you

291
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:11,880
You put $2.8 million rather than getting bullied from the federal government.

292
00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:16,780
That's where I'm struggling, I think they're just bullying us over money.

293
00:27:18,180 --> 00:27:23,940
I don't agree with what they're doing, so other than the financial benefit.

294
00:27:26,990 --> 00:27:27,570
Go ahead, Mayor.

295
00:27:30,270 --> 00:27:30,570
Sorry.

296
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:32,490
Go ahead.

297
00:27:32,510 --> 00:27:37,170
My understanding of getting a report from the member of the public for administration

298
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So that we can ask questions that will help us understand the report more clearly.

299
00:27:43,410 --> 00:27:51,970
I feel what Councillor Brown is doing is engaging in a debate with the presenter and I feel that that should be reserved for after the motion.

300
00:27:52,750 --> 00:27:53,050
Thank you.

301
00:27:54,130 --> 00:27:54,950
Thank you.

302
00:27:57,930 --> 00:28:00,910
I can speak to the funding.

303
00:28:01,290 --> 00:28:03,350
So the ship.

304
00:28:04,410 --> 00:28:04,770
Oh, sorry.

305
00:28:06,890 --> 00:28:08,990
Thank you, Mayor, for your point of procedure.

306
00:28:09,770 --> 00:28:18,310
I do find that the Council of Brown is close to the center of this and I do think we need

307
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:23,030
to get back to more of the point of the motion that's before us.

308
00:28:23,930 --> 00:28:29,250
With some latitude, of course, I think Council of Brown, you're around the topic.

309
00:28:29,850 --> 00:28:32,590
It's just not quite a hundred percent on point, so.

310
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So, I do, if you'd like to take the liberty to finish.

311
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:45,190
Yeah, I would like to finish like, I'm just wondering where we put a money value in front

312
00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:50,390
of the federal government saying you either do this or you don't get the money and that's

313
00:28:50,390 --> 00:28:51,150
just my point.

314
00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:51,590
Right.

315
00:28:52,090 --> 00:28:54,070
So, that's more of a statement than a question, right?

316
00:28:54,070 --> 00:29:03,610
Well, um, so my question would be, uh, Mr. D'Souva, should we continue on the way we're going,

317
00:29:03,910 --> 00:29:11,590
or should we just take the money and move forward rather than them bullying us into doing what

318
00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:21,330
they want us to do? Councillor Brown, I can answer that instead of the director. So, I mean, that's

319
00:29:21,330 --> 00:29:28,090
That's actually a decision for Council, or for executive committee, not for the director.

320
00:29:28,410 --> 00:29:31,470
But so, chiff funding is one form of funding.

321
00:29:31,670 --> 00:29:35,570
This is one funding stream that has come out from the federal government.

322
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,430
As administration, we're bringing this forward saying, we could use the chiff funding for

323
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,690
funding the wastewater treatment plant.

324
00:29:45,690 --> 00:29:55,590
And the phase one is $80 million that is a large amount of money to complete phase one.

325
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,320
Or possibly get from chief.

326
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:29,820
The utility bills would have to pay for the $80 million. So interest on the borrowing plus the principle payment. So the utility bills would have to pay for that. What we're staying in this report is basically we have an opportunity. This chief funding has come from the federal government. It is an option executive committee could use the chief funding if they feel

327
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that they want to wait for a different funding that could possibly be coming from the federal government you could wait

328
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:42,180
Or you could fund it completely from utility bills. We feel that

329
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This is a good option and that's why it's being brought forward. It's basically you're saving $2.8 million a year on interest payments

330
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,540
between borrowing $80 million or

331
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,640
$80 million minus what you would get from the chief funding.

332
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,920
You would save $2.8 million a year on utility bills.

333
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,080
That's what we're saying here.

334
00:31:10,180 --> 00:31:16,620
But it is completely up to executive committee if they decide to ask for

335
00:31:16,620 --> 00:31:20,000
the chief funding or to wait for other funding that might come.

336
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:27,120
Or to pay for the entire $80 million, proceed with the upgrade, pay for the entire $80 million from the utility.

337
00:31:28,020 --> 00:31:31,900
That's what, that's the option that you're being given.

338
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:39,320
Okay, I'm just going to go back to Councillor Brown, because it finishes point.

339
00:31:40,180 --> 00:31:43,320
And then we'll move on to Councillor Edwards and the Mayor.

340
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,300
Yes, thank you, Deputy Mayor.

341
00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:54,600
thank you to the city's manager. I'm fairly new to this and I get it. I'm just I feel like I'm

342
00:31:54,600 --> 00:32:01,840
getting bullied into making a decision with the federal government making us do something. So

343
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:07,900
that's all my point was thank you. I appreciate that Councillor Brown and just some extent I agree

344
00:32:07,900 --> 00:32:13,820
with you that either we do this or we have to pay the full 80 million on on the backs of our utilities

345
00:32:13,820 --> 00:32:19,180
and so that is something that you can consider in how you vote, of course.

346
00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:22,680
So thank you, Councillor Edwards.

347
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,280
Thank you, Deputy Mayor.

348
00:32:26,700 --> 00:32:35,720
I am in support of applying for a large sum of money because it's going to be a large

349
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:43,740
hit to our residents if we don't, and this upgrade certainly is required and we need

350
00:32:43,740 --> 00:32:46,880
to take money where we can get money, for sure.

351
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,780
Now, that being said, I don't disagree with Councillor Brown

352
00:32:50,780 --> 00:32:53,420
of what he's saying, but that's the next motion

353
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,560
which I expect full debate on the next motion.

354
00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:01,780
This is just simply an application for funds

355
00:33:01,780 --> 00:33:06,260
and it doesn't really, it does tie to the next motion

356
00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:08,680
but it doesn't, we're applying for money, let's get it.

357
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,640
But let's talk about the next motion, next.

358
00:33:14,300 --> 00:33:14,680
Thanks.

359
00:33:15,260 --> 00:33:16,500
Thank you, Councillor Edwards.

360
00:33:16,740 --> 00:33:21,760
That's a good point and it may help us as we work ourselves through this conversation.

361
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:23,240
Mayor Polinski.

362
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,400
I'm just taking a quick look.

363
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,140
2018-21 or actual revenue for a sewer was $4.5 million.

364
00:33:31,740 --> 00:33:33,420
2022-4.3.

365
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,420
2023 was $4.4.

366
00:33:37,420 --> 00:33:45,240
and 4.4 at the time of the budget was done 4.4 million for 2024.

367
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,800
So obviously the funding is mission critical.

368
00:33:50,540 --> 00:34:00,520
If we have a 10 year plan and with our current rates, it's going to be a long time before

369
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,020
we pay off $250 million.

370
00:34:02,020 --> 00:34:09,880
dollars. So I guess we have a really big big sale or we go after the funding from the

371
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:21,120
federal government but I really feel that the motion is a good motion and that we go ahead

372
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:27,740
as Councilor Edward said and make application for this particular fund. So thank you.

373
00:34:28,740 --> 00:34:33,100
Thank you, Mayor, and last in the queue, we have Councillor Liowitz.

374
00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:41,600
Thank you, Deputy Mayor, and I guess the question or clarification of the Mayor, did you

375
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,360
say it was a little over $4 million in revenue or profit?

376
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:52,340
I have a question to Department of Finance.

377
00:34:52,860 --> 00:35:02,420
What was the profit in those years from the water bills versus revenue?

378
00:35:05,780 --> 00:35:06,940
Director of Financial Services.

379
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:08,880
Thank you, Deputy Mayor.

380
00:35:09,060 --> 00:35:10,460
Thank you, Councilor, for the question.

381
00:35:10,660 --> 00:35:13,340
But I would have to look into that and get back to you.

382
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,860
I can offer a bit of information to one of your points previously asked was how much money

383
00:35:18,860 --> 00:35:25,120
is there set aside, in the end there isn't any, the utility isn't a deficit to the general fund.

384
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:34,200
We have been working a great deal towards reducing that, both in changing the model of how we deliver on the water side.

385
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:46,060
That's yielded considerable surpluses, but those surpluses currently are going towards just the deficit component of the utility to the general fund.

386
00:35:46,060 --> 00:35:51,620
Okay, so if we see if we get the funding, we then have an annual debt payment of $3.3 million

387
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,600
Are we gonna have to

388
00:35:55,420 --> 00:36:03,620
Raise some some water bills to be able to cover that. Yes. That's what it's looking at. Yes. It will come through on the the utility rates on the waste water

389
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,620
Charge component of that do we have like an estimated significance because that's only for phase one

390
00:36:10,220 --> 00:36:13,760
right? Yeah, I I have been working on

391
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:28,340
a 10-year projection for the utility and we will be working in a funded model and an unfunded model but that's going to be coming forward with the utility budget and sort of those early presentations.

392
00:36:29,260 --> 00:36:34,880
Okay, are we going to be, you know, obviously we'll see this again at City Council.

393
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,260
Will we get that information before we have a finalized vote on this?

394
00:36:39,260 --> 00:36:44,080
because we should know how much is going to affect our rate payers before we give it a thumbs up.

395
00:36:48,390 --> 00:36:53,270
Yeah, I can pull together some projections and see what makes the most sense to provide.

396
00:36:53,630 --> 00:36:59,410
I mean, some of that's contingent on subsequent decisions of council, but sure, yeah.

397
00:36:59,830 --> 00:37:00,990
Okay, no, thank you.

398
00:37:01,830 --> 00:37:06,270
Yeah, so the motion today is whether we're going to apply for the shift funding.

399
00:37:06,270 --> 00:37:12,750
So, relatively, I think it's either we pay $3 million or $6 million on funded.

400
00:37:13,770 --> 00:37:18,230
That's about as much information as we're going to have to either support or not support

401
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:23,430
the application and we'll see what the will of council is if I sum that up correctly.

402
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:25,790
Thank you, Director.

403
00:37:26,750 --> 00:37:28,710
I think we're ready for the vote and

404
00:37:39,210 --> 00:37:42,850
that vote is now open so your motion is on.

405
00:37:44,190 --> 00:37:47,150
Okay, and that vote does pass 8 to 1,

406
00:37:57,050 --> 00:37:58,330
okay, thank you.

407
00:37:59,890 --> 00:38:09,550
Okay, so next up on our agenda we do have 7.2 as most council has already indicated this is highly related to item 7.1, but different.

408
00:38:09,890 --> 00:38:20,810
And so four units as of right, Canada Housing Infrastructure Funding Application, create Gilleinger Director of Community Development is going to give a verbal presentation when you're ready, Director.

409
00:38:22,350 --> 00:38:24,770
Thank you, Deputy Mayor and thank you members of Council.

410
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:30,410
So now you've got a good idea of the project that we're applying for under the CHIF funding.

411
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:35,990
What I'm presenting on this afternoon is the implications and the requirements from this

412
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:40,110
federal program, namely for units as of right.

413
00:38:40,930 --> 00:38:46,690
So essentially what for units as of right means is that every residential zone across the city

414
00:38:46,690 --> 00:38:53,570
needs to adopt zoning by-law amendments to allow for up to four units in the zoning by-law.

415
00:38:54,250 --> 00:38:59,370
And that permit approval is administrative, so they would not be forwarded to City Council

416
00:38:59,370 --> 00:39:01,910
on an individual basis.

417
00:39:03,170 --> 00:39:07,790
Where this comes from earlier this year, the federal government initiated a $6 billion

418
00:39:07,790 --> 00:39:15,990
cross-nation program called the Canada Housing Infrastructure Fund of that fund, about 190 million

419
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:21,510
or so was earmarked for the province of Saskatchewan and then the province is also kicking in

420
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:27,490
the balance for a total of $320 million. In order to qualify for the funding, you have to have

421
00:39:27,490 --> 00:39:35,770
a population of over $30,000. 30,000 people, pardon me, we've met internally. We've discussed

422
00:39:35,770 --> 00:39:41,770
the number of projects and the wastewater treatment plant was barred on the most critical piece of

423
00:39:41,770 --> 00:39:47,750
infrastructure that the City of Prince Albert needs to address our shortage of housing.

424
00:39:48,050 --> 00:39:51,950
Like Councillor Kilmer said, if you've got land that's great, if you've got housing

425
00:39:51,950 --> 00:39:54,650
that's great, if you've got a plan for the housing that's great, but if you don't have

426
00:39:54,650 --> 00:39:59,030
the infrastructure to support it, it kind of becomes a moot point.

427
00:39:59,630 --> 00:40:04,930
So the wastewater treatment plant is a project as our director of public works presented on

428
00:40:04,930 --> 00:40:06,730
that we've earmarks for this funding.

429
00:40:10,290 --> 00:40:15,930
So, in approving zoning bylaw amendments, we've also come up with a robust communication

430
00:40:15,930 --> 00:40:16,510
plan.

431
00:40:16,670 --> 00:40:20,250
I appreciate the additional motion made as well, and we'll work with our communications team

432
00:40:20,250 --> 00:40:24,290
and our public work department to make sure that's rolled out in an adequate time frame.

433
00:40:25,230 --> 00:40:30,410
Coming up on October the 7th, we've already prepared some zoning bylaw changes.

434
00:40:30,790 --> 00:40:32,290
Those will be presented for first reading.

435
00:40:32,290 --> 00:40:36,430
and then following up on that on November the 17th for second and third reading.

436
00:40:37,070 --> 00:40:44,190
We've had one intake in the spring for this program, which we weren't prepared to do because it's such an important subject matter.

437
00:40:45,050 --> 00:40:50,470
And second intake is this fall with a date, a due date on November the 28th.

438
00:40:50,490 --> 00:40:57,290
So it is a very quick turnaround with some fairly static dates that have no flexibility.

439
00:40:57,290 --> 00:41:01,450
So, we are, once we get this approved, we are moving ahead quite quickly.

440
00:41:02,270 --> 00:41:05,490
We did a media release on October the 10th, which I'm sure you would have seen.

441
00:41:05,610 --> 00:41:11,050
We had a press conference as well, the same day and provided that information to our media

442
00:41:11,050 --> 00:41:11,470
partners.

443
00:41:12,190 --> 00:41:14,270
And this is an important topic.

444
00:41:14,610 --> 00:41:19,710
So we're also prepared to provide public notification to everyone located in the zones

445
00:41:19,710 --> 00:41:20,190
affected.

446
00:41:20,590 --> 00:41:24,170
So that would be our low density to high density zones.

447
00:41:24,170 --> 00:41:36,350
in our zoning by-law is R1, R2, R3, R4, and also our residential mixed-use zone, which is the zone right adjacent to downtown that has some commercial and residential properties.

448
00:41:37,550 --> 00:41:47,610
You will note that this amendment does not include our country residential properties north of the river simply because they are not part of city infrastructure.

449
00:41:47,610 --> 00:41:54,770
They're on their own well in septic systems so that wouldn't be adequate, and that is something that we flagged for the federal government and they've agreed to.

450
00:41:55,470 --> 00:42:00,410
We prepared some draft zoning changes already, and those have been presented at the province.

451
00:42:00,990 --> 00:42:05,090
And they have forwarded those to the federal government for discussion.

452
00:42:05,810 --> 00:42:16,190
And right up until last week we've been dialoguing with the federal and the provincial government just to get a better understanding of what the flexibility means and what the implications are of this program.

453
00:42:16,190 --> 00:42:19,310
because it does have, it does certainly have an impact on our community.

454
00:42:20,250 --> 00:42:25,930
One thing that is very clear is that four units as of right is a non-negotiable.

455
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:30,990
It is required as part of the program and that it is something that in order to qualify and

456
00:42:30,990 --> 00:42:36,230
get funding for, you need to adopt four units as of right in the zoning bylaw.

457
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:42,230
However, I'll also touch very briefly on the benefits to this program.

458
00:42:43,490 --> 00:42:47,410
beyond the obvious wastewater treatment plan infrastructure.

459
00:42:48,430 --> 00:42:53,190
We do, and we've had a housing needs assessment done earlier this year, and it identified

460
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:56,590
some real shortcomings in our city housing needs.

461
00:42:57,430 --> 00:43:00,450
On our website, we call that the missing middle, right?

462
00:43:00,530 --> 00:43:05,590
We've got a lot of really high end housing, but there's a real housing need for

463
00:43:05,590 --> 00:43:10,210
that kind of entry level housing deficit to the tune of about 1,400 units.

464
00:43:10,690 --> 00:43:39,710
That's not something that happens overnight, in order to meet some of those thresholds which I think the housing needs assessment identified about 60 units per year that we need to complete we do need help from different levels of government and sometimes that comes in the form of agreements and programs so this does definitely tick a box and it's a it's a big one and if done properly it can have a big impact on our housing needs assessment and start pushing some of the right direction so that is a significant

465
00:43:39,710 --> 00:43:42,350
significant benefit of this program for sure.

466
00:43:43,570 --> 00:43:48,650
Now, there might be concerns in the community that all of a sudden they'll be four plexes

467
00:43:48,650 --> 00:43:51,190
and triplexes and do plexes popping up all over the city.

468
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:56,590
We do have one very important tool in our toolbox to manage that and that is our zoning

469
00:43:56,590 --> 00:43:56,990
by-law.

470
00:43:57,870 --> 00:44:01,710
Our zoning by-law, as you know, regulates development.

471
00:44:02,290 --> 00:44:06,670
So although four units as of right, we'll be located in the zoning by-law as it permitted

472
00:44:06,670 --> 00:44:08,430
use in all of our residential zones.

473
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:12,230
Please note that parking requirements still have to be met.

474
00:44:13,150 --> 00:44:17,330
Our setbacks still need to be met so the distance from the building to the property lines.

475
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:24,490
Our minimum landscaping requirements still need to be met or lot width requirements still need to be met.

476
00:44:25,410 --> 00:44:31,270
So just those requirements alone will make a lot of the properties in the city simply not qualify.

477
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:37,110
Because in order to meet all of those regulations, you won't be able to fit anything above a single family home.

478
00:44:37,710 --> 00:44:46,990
So that is something to note, and that is something that as is reflected in the motion that we continue to take reasonable steps to minimize the impact on established neighborhoods.

479
00:44:47,410 --> 00:44:53,190
We'll continue to dialogue with the province and we'll continue to dialogue with the federal government.

480
00:44:53,770 --> 00:44:56,070
We'll continue to look at what other cities are doing.

481
00:44:56,070 --> 00:44:56,150
thing.

482
00:45:00,110 --> 00:45:27,050
The minimum standards are met with the federal government. Our zoning bylaw is not a static document. It can be flexible. It can change. So we'll continue to monitor the impact of the program and the impact of the regulations we put in place. And there's certainly nothing stopping us from bringing amendments back to tighten it up as best as we can. And we're certainly committed to that. So when we look at next steps, again, November 17th is second and third reading.

483
00:45:27,050 --> 00:45:35,670
we've worked really closely with our communications team who have done an excellent job of establishing a number of questions on our website.

484
00:45:35,930 --> 00:45:45,670
If you do get questions, it's really important for the public to understand, but I think the website does a really good job of breaking down those questions in simple form for the community to understand.

485
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:56,030
So just on our website, it's front and center, CDPA.ca. I'd like to refer members of the public to our kind of Q&A page, because I believe it answers most of those questions.

486
00:45:56,030 --> 00:45:59,810
But in a nutshell, that's what the four units as the right program is.

487
00:46:01,230 --> 00:46:04,870
As early as October the 27th, you'll see what the zoning changes look like.

488
00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:09,930
And as early as November 17th is when we'll have those that zoning by our finalized.

489
00:46:10,130 --> 00:46:13,770
So with that, I'll pass it on to you and I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have.

490
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:14,870
Okay.

491
00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:15,890
Q is lighting up.

492
00:46:16,030 --> 00:46:21,570
So are there any questions for administration before the motion is placed on the floor?

493
00:46:23,970 --> 00:46:24,770
Councillor Browne.

494
00:46:24,770 --> 00:46:28,670
Yes, thank you, Deputy Mayor, and to the Director of Planning.

495
00:46:29,670 --> 00:46:38,550
What was the rationale for not having the four units as of a right prior to the CHIF funding?

496
00:46:41,380 --> 00:46:45,420
So the rationale for four units as of right is not necessarily a new concept.

497
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,560
It's been around for a very, very long time.

498
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:52,160
From a planning perspective, there are different ways to achieve densities throughout

499
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:58,820
in neighbourhood. As we've spoken to and the housing needs assessment identified there

500
00:46:58,820 --> 00:47:03,060
is a continuum of housing and from a planning, a professional planning perspective you

501
00:47:03,060 --> 00:47:07,440
can achieve that in different ways. So you can zone areas of the city to include pockets

502
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:14,500
of higher density development which we feel does achieve some of those standards that we need

503
00:47:14,500 --> 00:47:19,260
to meet as established in the housing needs assessment. However, with the chief funding and the

504
00:47:19,260 --> 00:47:25,280
The focus of our current government on housing and getting more housing units fast.

505
00:47:26,020 --> 00:47:30,520
Chiff, and the house or four units as the right is probably one of the more aggressive forms of getting that done.

506
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:36,660
So up until this point, we felt we met the need of that higher density housing.

507
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,200
But the federal government has asked that we kind of take the next step and

508
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,340
take more of a aggressive approach.

509
00:47:42,340 --> 00:47:45,100
Okay, thank you for the answer.

510
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:53,800
My next question is, does y'all empty lots in the city, like specifically in the West

511
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:54,040
Flat?

512
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,640
Does that is that taken into account on the sewer need, because there is a lot of empty

513
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:00,020
lots.

514
00:48:00,700 --> 00:48:10,680
There are in my ward with that not being used to full capacity, does that have any intake

515
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:16,180
or would you call it an impact on the situation?

516
00:48:16,580 --> 00:48:18,420
Yeah, absolutely, I appreciate the question.

517
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,380
So when we added number two to the motion, where it says,

518
00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:25,700
or where additional density cannot be reasonably supported,

519
00:48:26,340 --> 00:48:28,980
that was a very conscious decision, right?

520
00:48:29,060 --> 00:48:33,580
We don't want to add units where our infrastructure can't handle it.

521
00:48:33,620 --> 00:48:36,740
So if we're adding four plexes or a high rise apartment or something like that,

522
00:48:37,260 --> 00:48:39,020
and we're kind of forced to approve it.

523
00:48:39,180 --> 00:48:41,460
But on the other hand, our infrastructure can't support it.

524
00:48:41,460 --> 00:48:42,820
that puts us in a really tough spot.

525
00:48:43,700 --> 00:48:46,380
So similar to our country residential properties,

526
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,100
where their infrastructure can't support higher density,

527
00:48:49,740 --> 00:48:51,500
something that we want to keep in mind

528
00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:53,720
when approving our zoning regulations,

529
00:48:53,820 --> 00:48:56,680
is that we go through a proper review

530
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,640
to make sure that if density is added,

531
00:48:58,920 --> 00:48:59,760
that our infrastructure,

532
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,500
underground infrastructure can't support it.

533
00:49:01,900 --> 00:49:04,300
Okay, and then I guess my final question is

534
00:49:04,300 --> 00:49:07,160
if we do expand to bind a,

535
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:15,860
the, wherever the, um, Victoria Hospital, if we do make more subdivisions, does that impact

536
00:49:15,860 --> 00:49:22,360
on the size of the pipe or how does that articulate to the regular guy like, is it a bigger

537
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:27,120
pipe, like a bigger sewer line or is it just a standard thing we use?

538
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:28,560
Yeah, thanks for the question.

539
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:32,740
I'm giving a very simplified answer and certainly if our director of public works would like

540
00:49:32,740 --> 00:49:33,360
to chime in.

541
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:40,220
So when planning for neighborhoods, the short answer to your question is yes, right?

542
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,960
When you add units, it creates impact on our systems.

543
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,960
So we have to make sure that when we do create additional units, our systems can handle it.

544
00:49:50,060 --> 00:49:58,620
So in neighborhood like West Hill, for example, when you've got new developments, something that we're looking at right now is our West Hill master plan, making sure that it can support development.

545
00:49:58,620 --> 00:50:04,700
So, again, to your point, the addition of number two, where that additional density cannot

546
00:50:04,700 --> 00:50:08,040
be reasonably supported, is going to be taken very seriously as part of this program.

547
00:50:08,620 --> 00:50:09,360
Perfect. Thank you.

548
00:50:10,260 --> 00:50:12,960
Thank you, Councillor Brough. Excellent points. Councillor Kilmer.

549
00:50:13,780 --> 00:50:18,860
Thank you. And thank you for the presentation. I've got two questions about zoning, particular

550
00:50:18,860 --> 00:50:26,320
zoning. The first is you said minimum landscaping. So, my thought or questions that I'm getting

551
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:35,420
from residents involves the four plex takes up the entire part of the lot and therefore

552
00:50:35,420 --> 00:50:43,320
runoff ends up for the neighbor, right, and causes problems for that neighbor.

553
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:48,040
So what exactly do you mean by minimum landscaping and does it hit what I just said?

554
00:50:48,500 --> 00:50:49,600
Yep, nope, thank you for the question.

555
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:56,700
So, our zoning by-law right now says that a site cannot be covered by more than 50% by buildings.

556
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:06,740
So, everything that is not covered by buildings normally would be covered by landscaping or something like a driveway, pavement concrete, which has an impact on storm water management.

557
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,340
Our zoning by-law currently does not manage storm water.

558
00:51:10,460 --> 00:51:18,160
We do have some other policy language in the city that do, but that has been flagged in the past, not as for units as the right.

559
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:24,960
But different areas that we potentially need to look at to make sure, you know, necessary updates are made to not

560
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:31,100
Adversity effect neighboring properties. So the language in our zoning by-laws not being changed at this time for that scenario

561
00:51:31,100 --> 00:51:35,740
But it has already been flagged as something that will lead to address and that is covered in a by-law

562
00:51:36,460 --> 00:51:41,520
Is what I'm hearing you say that there is a by-law about the amount of cement that can cover a property?

563
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:46,580
Right now there is yes, okay. Thank you. And then my second

564
00:51:46,580 --> 00:51:52,840
And question about zoning is about shadow, anything about shadows.

565
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:59,220
So, you know, people they're worried is they have their house, they're nice yard, and

566
00:51:59,220 --> 00:52:08,480
now they have a four levels coming beside them and now creates a shadow that absolutely

567
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,460
changes their properties, is there anything in regard to shadowing?

568
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:13,960
Yeah, thank you for the question.

569
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,920
And so we don't have any specific language that speaks to shadowing.

570
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:21,760
However, a culmination of regulations does have an impact on shadowing.

571
00:52:21,900 --> 00:52:24,280
So for example, we have a maximum building height.

572
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:27,300
So a building can only be a certain height.

573
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,960
Setbacks from a property line need to be met.

574
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,080
A common front line of the buildings need to be met.

575
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:37,460
And we'll do what we can to manage what we can.

576
00:52:37,540 --> 00:52:42,360
But to be frank and to be totally forthcoming, right?

577
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:47,360
But if you're allowing for units, we cannot control the orientation of the building,

578
00:52:47,860 --> 00:52:52,680
or whether it's how the units fit onto a site, right?

579
00:52:52,940 --> 00:53:03,060
So in some cases, especially in infill neighborhoods, there is a potential likelihood that some out of the box designs could impact things like shadowing,

580
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:08,420
or lighting, or sight lines in established neighborhoods for adjacent property owners.

581
00:53:08,420 --> 00:53:16,380
But I did hear you say that part of the zoning is the setback all of that impacts the design correct and

582
00:53:16,900 --> 00:53:18,340
Yeah, thank you very much.

583
00:53:21,230 --> 00:53:24,930
Thank you councilmember. Next we have Mayor Polanski

584
00:53:25,790 --> 00:53:29,010
Thank you deputy mayor. Thank you director Gettinger

585
00:53:29,010 --> 00:53:35,290
I just need clarification on a couple of points one of them

586
00:53:35,290 --> 00:53:41,870
And parking is also a requirement of this particular zoning bylaw that we have.

587
00:53:42,610 --> 00:53:47,290
So is that on-street parking or is that driveway access parking or?

588
00:53:48,170 --> 00:53:49,590
Yeah, thanks, Marit's a great question.

589
00:53:49,790 --> 00:53:53,710
So yeah, parking has a big impact on the viability of these types of projects.

590
00:53:53,950 --> 00:54:01,010
So simply put, every unit requires one on-site parking stall, not on the street on-site.

591
00:54:01,010 --> 00:54:17,770
So, for example, a four unit building will require four onsite parking stalls, and with the minimum dimensions of those parking stalls, with the maximum size of a crossing, that will very much limit the neighborhoods and the lots that can accommodate four units.

592
00:54:18,450 --> 00:54:30,010
Okay, so the second part of my question is, I understand that it's two, three, four application, two, three, four housing units.

593
00:54:30,010 --> 00:54:36,750
units, like a duplex, a triplex, or a fourplex, and of course, I think a lot of people

594
00:54:36,750 --> 00:54:45,250
just zero in on the fourplex, but does this also include townhouse, rowhouse, condo,

595
00:54:46,590 --> 00:54:52,450
fourplex stacked, all of those are all of those options under this plan?

596
00:54:52,870 --> 00:54:54,210
Yeah, thanks for the question.

597
00:54:54,210 --> 00:55:10,550
So, yeah, four units can take different forms, whether it's, you know, a duplex with basement suites, whether it's four, you know, row townhouses, whether it's kind of a walkup, you know, small apartment with two units up top and two units at the bottom, it can look different ways.

598
00:55:10,750 --> 00:55:20,570
So, basically, anyway, you can accommodate four units as long as it meets those regulations in our zoning by the good account for that change in or could account for the program.

599
00:55:20,570 --> 00:55:26,170
So it does have to have for units and the development.

600
00:55:26,750 --> 00:55:28,710
Every zone has to allow up to four units.

601
00:55:29,210 --> 00:55:34,190
So yeah, if someone in one of our low density zones would only like to apply for a duplex

602
00:55:34,190 --> 00:55:37,670
or that's all that the site can accommodate, that would be allowed as well under the program.

603
00:55:37,810 --> 00:55:37,970
Okay.

604
00:55:38,350 --> 00:55:46,750
So it's not, as some of the reports have been, it's not restricted or solely focused on

605
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:47,750
the four.

606
00:55:47,970 --> 00:55:49,210
It's up to four.

607
00:55:49,470 --> 00:55:49,670
Yes.

608
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:53,130
I have to do more than a single so that it'd be a two to four, right?

609
00:55:53,210 --> 00:55:53,710
Right, yeah.

610
00:55:53,870 --> 00:55:54,210
Thank you.

611
00:55:55,970 --> 00:55:57,010
Okay, thank you, Mayor.

612
00:55:57,950 --> 00:55:58,790
Councillor Layowicz.

613
00:56:00,310 --> 00:56:03,390
Thank you, Deputy Mayor, and a question through the Chair

614
00:56:03,390 --> 00:56:04,430
to the Director.

615
00:56:06,310 --> 00:56:10,550
So I worry about some of our single family homes

616
00:56:10,550 --> 00:56:11,850
that are on some pretty big lots

617
00:56:11,850 --> 00:56:13,950
in some of our older areas of the city.

618
00:56:14,590 --> 00:56:16,030
You know, a lot of dimensions kind of used

619
00:56:16,030 --> 00:56:18,050
to be pretty significant size.

620
00:56:18,050 --> 00:56:21,150
And that's one of the things that attracts people to those areas.

621
00:56:21,710 --> 00:56:26,270
And that's an attractive part of our city is that we have some nice, big lots with some older homes.

622
00:56:28,310 --> 00:56:33,050
You've covered the conditions that would deny an application in some aspects.

623
00:56:33,950 --> 00:56:38,770
What's the application process for demolishing an existing house?

624
00:56:40,370 --> 00:56:41,770
Yeah, thanks for the question.

625
00:56:41,970 --> 00:56:48,890
So it's a fairly standard process similar to our building construction, building permit.

626
00:56:49,530 --> 00:56:54,170
So you apply with our community development department for a demo.

627
00:56:54,330 --> 00:56:56,510
You need a demolition plan, you have to apply for a permit.

628
00:56:56,970 --> 00:57:00,370
You have to make sure that all the shut-offs are done with crown utilities.

629
00:57:00,930 --> 00:57:06,490
And ultimately that business licensing and those sorts of things are in place are land full approvals.

630
00:57:06,490 --> 00:57:09,790
and then approval is given to demolish the home.

631
00:57:10,750 --> 00:57:12,870
And that's strictly an administration process?

632
00:57:13,210 --> 00:57:13,890
Yes. Yes.

633
00:57:15,450 --> 00:57:18,250
Yeah, no, I just, I worry a little bit if this goes through

634
00:57:18,250 --> 00:57:21,870
that we're going to see some of our older communities

635
00:57:22,770 --> 00:57:25,870
changing very quickly and having investors come in

636
00:57:25,870 --> 00:57:28,170
and level out some old, beautiful character homes

637
00:57:28,170 --> 00:57:29,410
or wartime homes or whatever,

638
00:57:29,610 --> 00:57:31,830
just to utilize that lot size.

639
00:57:32,930 --> 00:57:40,050
I feel like it might target some areas of town more than others, but that's it for me.

640
00:57:40,270 --> 00:57:40,470
Thank you.

641
00:57:42,150 --> 00:57:43,070
Thank you, Councilor Lee.

642
00:57:43,150 --> 00:57:45,470
What's fair points again, Councillor Hitt?

643
00:57:46,470 --> 00:57:50,730
Thank you, Deputy Mayor, and thank you to the Director for the presentation and the information

644
00:57:50,730 --> 00:57:51,470
provided today.

645
00:57:51,590 --> 00:57:51,850
Thank you.

646
00:57:52,190 --> 00:57:56,430
You went through some benefits and yes, right off the top, wastewater treatment plant of

647
00:57:56,430 --> 00:57:59,130
this grant, benefits of the grant is the wastewater treatment plant and the housing needs.

648
00:57:59,130 --> 00:58:13,750
And of course, we have that assessment done which highlights just how behind we are in the city at 1,400 units, 60 units per year is kind of affordable housing is critical for a healthy vibrant community for sure.

649
00:58:14,650 --> 00:58:24,890
I'm not a big fan of how this grant came forward but we definitely need this money's in our community and I'm hearing some of the answers you've answered some of that.

650
00:58:24,890 --> 00:58:29,870
But the biggest one was, you know, how do we mitigate some of the changes that this could

651
00:58:29,870 --> 00:58:34,190
have fact, and you touched on it in your report, saying that you're going to, you know,

652
00:58:34,250 --> 00:58:38,930
you can highlight some of those zoning bylaws, parking requirements, setbacks, minimum,

653
00:58:42,130 --> 00:58:53,870
a lot with and minimum, minimal, oh geez, thank you, you know, assessing the grass

654
00:58:53,870 --> 00:58:58,450
and other weeds on the property. But I guess the biggest question I have is, is this

655
00:58:58,450 --> 00:59:03,070
for new builds only, and so there's been some talk about, you know, existing properties,

656
00:59:03,070 --> 00:59:08,830
is this grant only for the new builds? So that's the first question. I can stop there if

657
00:59:08,830 --> 00:59:09,150
Do you like it?

658
00:59:09,250 --> 00:59:11,290
Yeah, no, it's a great question.

659
00:59:11,450 --> 00:59:13,630
So it can be for a retrofit as well.

660
00:59:14,230 --> 00:59:18,410
However, it is worth noting that it's not as simple as just

661
00:59:19,590 --> 00:59:22,670
converting a four bedroom home into four units, right?

662
00:59:22,790 --> 00:59:25,350
There's still a pretty onerous building permit process

663
00:59:25,350 --> 00:59:26,270
that you have to follow.

664
00:59:26,710 --> 00:59:28,010
Building code still applies,

665
00:59:28,570 --> 00:59:30,710
separations, heating, all those types of things.

666
00:59:30,930 --> 00:59:35,450
So retrofitting a large home would definitely take some work

667
00:59:35,450 --> 00:59:37,010
and would definitely take some costing

668
00:59:37,010 --> 00:59:41,070
and would still require building permits and approvals by the city.

669
00:59:41,290 --> 00:59:48,610
So what about, and it's kind of mentioned empty lots, because we have a variety of them throughout the city.

670
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:56,710
Can we expect possibly four plexes popping up on those do lots without any kind of say with this council?

671
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:29,520
You know, again, if all regulations are met, what I will say, though, with the little aspects is, like, a lot has to be a real fair size in order to accommodate something like a fourplex. And some of our neighborhoods with 33-foot lots, even 40-foot lots, which is some of our more historic neighborhoods, it would be very difficult to meet all of our regulations and fit even a duplex, something like achieving, you know, approval with our crossing by law in itself.

672
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:40,620
would be very difficult, allowing for parking stalls in front of a building that just backs out onto a 50 foot crossing onto a street would not be permitted.

673
01:00:40,980 --> 01:00:57,400
So while they could be part of the program and people can inquire on them and they are zoned appropriately, it would be very difficult to say that our existing neighborhood lots, vacant lots right now would qualify.

674
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,320
I think would take some real specific circumstances.

675
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:01,660
Okay, thank you for that.

676
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:06,400
And then the last, one of the last questions I have, I guess there may be more, but for now.

677
01:01:06,980 --> 01:01:11,500
You said one intake for this in the spring, and then maybe this fall, there will be another intake.

678
01:01:12,140 --> 01:01:13,360
What did you mean by the one intake?

679
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,140
There was some interest already in the community.

680
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:18,200
Yeah, sorry, and thank you for the opportunity to clarify.

681
01:01:18,500 --> 01:01:23,980
So the program was approved just at the beginning of 2025, and the federal government and the province,

682
01:01:23,980 --> 01:01:29,700
in conjunction with the province, opened up applications in the spring for one application intake.

683
01:01:30,540 --> 01:01:35,120
And now they've opened up another one in November here by the end of the month.

684
01:01:35,340 --> 01:01:41,160
So that was a federal intake for the program and provincial intake for the program, not necessarily controlled by the news value.

685
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:48,240
So there is some interest already and we possibly once making this change, we could see some of these developments happen fairly quick within our city, I would assume.

686
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:51,020
Thank you. The last one I guess I

687
01:01:53,680 --> 01:02:01,500
think I'll stop for now but you've answered some of my questions. I'll stop there and maybe there'll be a few others that will clarify.

688
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,840
Thank you Councillor Heddin. Next in the queue we have Councillor Pronto.

689
01:02:07,260 --> 01:02:15,620
Thank you Deputy Mayor. A little while ago we were just talking about areas in the city where the infrastructure might not support a higher density.

690
01:02:15,620 --> 01:02:24,640
have we kind of identified some of those areas in the city where the infrastructure might not be able to handle several four-plex units, that type of thing.

691
01:02:25,820 --> 01:02:30,760
Thank you for the question. We haven't done an analysis of all empty lots or anything like that.

692
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:39,620
What I will say is that although a approval will not be required by city council, every application that we get goes through a,

693
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:46,660
kind of a development permit, inter-departmental review process, so it will go to our Department

694
01:02:46,660 --> 01:02:52,060
of Public Works for comment on the infrastructure needs, our director of park check and culture,

695
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:58,240
for example, to identify what those pinch points, if any, what those issues might be that impact

696
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:00,780
their areas of expertise.

697
01:03:01,260 --> 01:03:06,260
So we haven't identified exactly which lots may or may not qualify, but we've got a system

698
01:03:06,260 --> 01:03:10,360
in place it'll make sure that that is caught if, you know, as it comes up.

699
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,060
Okay, that's what I was looking forward to.

700
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,900
As it comes up, it's kind of how it's going to work, so.

701
01:03:15,340 --> 01:03:23,200
Okay, and my second question is we just passed a new build tax rebate program.

702
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:30,380
Is there any kind of synergies between, you know, two, three, four units and the rebate?

703
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:32,240
I appreciate the question.

704
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:39,140
And so the new construction, commercial and residential construction program was specifically for five units end up.

705
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,980
So four units, what we're contemplating today would not qualify for that program.

706
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:43,980
Perfect, thank you.

707
01:03:44,340 --> 01:03:44,480
You're welcome.

708
01:03:45,930 --> 01:03:46,740
Good question again.

709
01:03:47,380 --> 01:03:48,440
Councillor Browne.

710
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:51,880
Yes, thank you, Deputy Your Worship.

711
01:03:55,260 --> 01:04:02,420
I guess my question is, can we appeal to the federal government to give us funding without the amendment

712
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,300
for a for for for units as a right.

713
01:04:07,700 --> 01:04:09,660
Thank you for the question, Councillor Brown.

714
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,100
So that the program is set, it's a 10-year program.

715
01:04:13,540 --> 01:04:17,940
We've I know there's already been applications made by across the country.

716
01:04:17,940 --> 01:04:21,720
So I don't believe there's an opportunity to appeal to change this program.

717
01:04:22,060 --> 01:04:27,960
Obviously there's nothing stopping us or you as city councilors of sharing your concerns or writing letters or things like that.

718
01:04:28,060 --> 01:04:32,000
But to amend the program to eliminate the four units as of right.

719
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:38,240
We've explicitly asked that question and some flexibility in how that is applied and we're quite

720
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:41,960
Quite confident that the approach we're taking is what is required

721
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:50,540
Yeah, so just to give you a just to give you an example because remember that this requirement is for populations over 30,000

722
01:04:51,100 --> 01:04:52,280
So any

723
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:59,900
municipality that has less than 30,000 does not have to make these changes to their zoning value, right? So

724
01:04:59,900 --> 01:05:05,440
So I do know for a fact City, Regina, City of Saskatoon and the City of

725
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:09,560
Moisture have already made these amendments to their zoning by-law.

726
01:05:10,180 --> 01:05:18,040
So really, it is only the City of PA that would not be eligible for funding under the

727
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:23,960
CHIF program if we decided not to change the zoning by-law in Saskatchewan.

728
01:05:24,180 --> 01:05:27,360
So that's the 320 million that has been set aside.

729
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:29,440
So, we would be the only ones.

730
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:45,360
Well, if I may, I would like to move the option for the recommendation and there that there is the option not to pursue the zoning changes and allow for four units as of right and low density residential zones.

731
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:45,520
questions.

732
01:05:48,100 --> 01:05:53,020
I would like to go with the option. I don't believe we should be bullied

733
01:05:53,020 --> 01:06:00,140
in to something just monetarily wise. I don't think that's right.

734
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:06,280
So I'm just checking if she knows what you're reading the option for the recommendation.

735
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:10,560
I would prefer to move the recommendation than the recommendation.

736
01:06:15,340 --> 01:06:16,640
And if I get a second

737
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:22,380
I'll explain. That's executive. So. Oh, well,

738
01:06:24,430 --> 01:06:29,850
we just need clarification on what the motion is. So we're waiting until you clerk patiently.

739
01:07:19,460 --> 01:07:26,840
Do you have a couple in the queue or three? Do we want to debate this motion or do we want to go to vote on it?

740
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,760
If I may give a rationale.

741
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,900
Okay, well I guess then we will move on to debate.

742
01:07:38,180 --> 01:07:41,060
This is, this motion is except to you, Councillor Browne.

743
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:41,220
Yeah.

744
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:41,940
That's the one.

745
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:49,260
Yeah and if I may explain why I would prefer to do this, there was a reason why we didn't

746
01:07:49,260 --> 01:07:57,580
do it before I guess and I don't like the federal government bullying us into doing something

747
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:03,340
for a monetary value in exchange for us changing a bylaw. I don't think that's correct.

748
01:08:04,180 --> 01:08:09,260
I think the federal government works for us and we don't work for them. So, for them

749
01:08:09,260 --> 01:08:16,720
to bully us into changing our bylaws strictly for a financial gain, I don't find that correct.

750
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:18,520
So, thank you.

751
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:20,920
Okay. Thank you, Councillor Brown.

752
01:08:23,060 --> 01:08:24,900
Next in the queue, we have Councillor Edwards.

753
01:08:24,900 --> 01:08:25,360
Thank

754
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:34,400
you, Deputy Mayor. I have a couple of questions to the director before I proceed to debate this motion.

755
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:44,740
Have we considered, I mean, we have a housing needs assessment that we're, I think it was 14 to 1600, is it units that were?

756
01:08:45,340 --> 01:08:45,860
Yeah, correct.

757
01:08:46,700 --> 01:08:55,180
Have we considered all of the boarded up houses in that formula because if we've addressed some of those issues, that amount must go down.

758
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:58,760
Yeah, thanks for the question, Councillor Edwards.

759
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:06,720
So to your point, that 1,400 units, if those boarded up houses were brought back into

760
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:11,400
the inventory and made more viable, those would lessen that 1,400 units, so those would

761
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:12,260
have a positive impact.

762
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:20,480
Yeah, and a positive impact on the lower amount of four units that we require.

763
01:09:20,700 --> 01:09:22,160
So are we working on all of them?

764
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:24,700
I know it's a different topic, but it's the same topic.

765
01:09:24,700 --> 01:09:38,340
So are we working on putting some of these, or all of the boarded up housing back into circulation somehow or whether they're demolished or what because it's not a good situation?

766
01:09:38,900 --> 01:09:39,720
Yeah, thanks for the question.

767
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:44,040
So when we talk about, you know, that is a community safety well being and a bylaw initiative.

768
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:53,520
When we talk about pieces of the puzzle, I can say that yes, we do have, you know, we have an action table that's focused on not only landlords but

769
01:09:53,520 --> 01:10:03,100
boarded up houses, and we've got a few initiatives to give us the tools to be a little bit more aggressive with how we approach boarded up houses to get those boards off and get them rentable again.

770
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:07,040
So short answer is yes, we're working on that.

771
01:10:08,380 --> 01:10:08,580
Okay.

772
01:10:10,260 --> 01:10:18,460
Okay, so that's my questions for the director now. I'll go on to the debate here. I'm not going to vote in favor of this motion.

773
01:10:18,460 --> 01:10:26,260
I don't like the original motion either, but to throw away tens of millions of dollars

774
01:10:26,260 --> 01:10:31,560
down the tube because of something that we don't appreciate or don't like is not the

775
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:33,440
smart way to do things for food.

776
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:35,340
We're not going to win that fight.

777
01:10:36,180 --> 01:10:41,060
I don't like the fact that the federal government can say, hey, do this or no money for you.

778
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:46,320
That's a ridiculous way to do business, but that's the way they chose.

779
01:10:46,320 --> 01:11:04,070
and we need to move forward with it, they're pressuring us and I don't like it either and I want to make sure we voice in communication pieces out there that we were pressured into support this.

780
01:11:04,450 --> 01:11:15,670
I don't want big units all over the city, but I think you've clarified a lot, the fact that we're not going to see that necessarily, but we will see an impact to our community,

781
01:11:15,670 --> 01:11:19,670
where some of these will be popped up and it's they're going to look out of

782
01:11:19,670 --> 01:11:25,870
place. I don't think we can protect the entire city on that. As long as our city

783
01:11:25,870 --> 01:11:32,790
knows that we were forced into this and they should because the city will be

784
01:11:32,790 --> 01:11:39,510
saying soon they'll be comments all over the place that the city's ridiculous.

785
01:11:40,170 --> 01:11:44,710
The making decisions like this while we don't have a choice. We don't have a choice.

786
01:11:44,710 --> 01:11:53,390
We can't throw away millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars and then try and collect from our public.

787
01:11:54,590 --> 01:12:00,750
Hey, we denied this. We got to collect from you because we need that infrastructure money. How can we do that?

788
01:12:01,870 --> 01:12:12,690
We were faced with a large tax increase last year. Let's deny all of these millions of dollars and see what the increase is when we need that infrastructure.

789
01:12:12,690 --> 01:12:16,010
Well, that's just not smart way to do business at all.

790
01:12:17,150 --> 01:12:19,710
So as much as I don't appreciate it,

791
01:12:19,730 --> 01:12:21,630
I'm not going to let my pride get in the way

792
01:12:21,630 --> 01:12:25,630
of accepting millions of dollars in possible funding.

793
01:12:26,010 --> 01:12:29,570
However, if we apply for the last motion

794
01:12:29,570 --> 01:12:34,410
for what we just approved, the chief money,

795
01:12:35,470 --> 01:12:39,410
if we don't get it, I anticipate someone in this chamber

796
01:12:39,410 --> 01:12:43,070
and I will do it personally to withdraw this motion.

797
01:12:43,570 --> 01:12:43,730
Absolutely.

798
01:12:43,950 --> 01:12:45,570
We've got no issues with that whatsoever

799
01:12:45,570 --> 01:12:46,890
if we don't get funding.

800
01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:48,730
Hey, you're going to force us,

801
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:50,430
well, show us the money.

802
01:12:51,610 --> 01:12:52,490
It's critical.

803
01:12:52,750 --> 01:12:53,930
Because if we don't get the money,

804
01:12:54,210 --> 01:12:58,330
then we can take this down as quick as it came up.

805
01:12:59,030 --> 01:13:01,150
So that's why I'm going to support the original motion,

806
01:13:02,570 --> 01:13:04,310
but I won't be supporting this motion.

807
01:13:06,090 --> 01:13:07,290
Okay, thank you, Councillor Edwards.

808
01:13:07,290 --> 01:13:12,230
So I'm just going to make a couple of comments on the question as I haven't had an opportunity to do so yet.

809
01:13:12,910 --> 01:13:18,290
So going back to the original for you and says, right, I did have a question around.

810
01:13:18,890 --> 01:13:22,270
And you've done a really good job directing in terms of explaining different options.

811
01:13:22,270 --> 01:13:27,470
And you really don't know a lot about some things, but lot sizes and other things could be limited.

812
01:13:27,950 --> 01:13:33,310
One thing that did occur to me though that I've seen happen in other municipalities is garage conversions.

813
01:13:34,350 --> 01:13:42,910
And whether you have two separate buildings possibly on a property, would that be an option under the four units as of right?

814
01:13:43,730 --> 01:13:49,710
Yeah, thanks for the question, Deputy Mayor, that would be an option with four units as of right.

815
01:13:50,210 --> 01:13:52,150
There are other considerations as well.

816
01:13:52,350 --> 01:13:57,450
It does get a little bit more complicated for servicing, because you potentially have two service connections.

817
01:13:57,450 --> 01:14:03,970
So, again, to point number two, not all areas of the city would be able to allow for that story in the previous motion,

818
01:14:06,070 --> 01:14:10,030
because servicing a property like that has impacts as well.

819
01:14:12,010 --> 01:14:18,030
But simply put, garage conversions like they allow us to as an example would potentially qualify.

820
01:14:18,890 --> 01:14:22,490
Again, given everything else that you've already said, that would make some sense.

821
01:14:22,490 --> 01:14:33,290
So, and around lot size, I think you will re-explain, you know, we do have a lot of lots of 33 feet wide or 40 feet wide and they're not going to accommodate a four-plex unless they're like 400 feet long.

822
01:14:34,230 --> 01:14:39,550
Correct, we don't have any of those while we wait a couple of those. But okay, no, I appreciate that.

823
01:14:40,310 --> 01:14:51,170
When I look at the motion, I do think that the federal government is making us do this under a bit of dress, but I do think that our community needs the water treatment plant.

824
01:14:51,170 --> 01:14:56,850
So for trading that for something I guess or some help towards the water treatment or sorry waste water

825
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:29,580
We have to go. Nobody here is going to like that. But if the money doesn't come through as Councillor Edward said, I don't think there would be any support for this at all. So I will move along in the queue back to next up is Councillor Head. Thank you, Deputy Mayor. And thanks all my colleagues for their questions. It's helpful. I do have a couple of questions and in a comment on this one. So I guess just to follow up, and I think you mentioned it, Director, already, how long do we have to make these changes for? You said it's a 10-year program. I'm assuming that.

826
01:15:29,580 --> 01:15:32,380
that has to align with our changes?

827
01:15:33,140 --> 01:15:34,620
Yeah, thanks to the question, Councillor Head.

828
01:15:34,820 --> 01:15:39,380
Yes, it's a 10-year program and you have up to 10 years to utilize the funds.

829
01:15:39,620 --> 01:15:47,360
So after all those funds are utilized, I expect the council could revisit or look at the impacts

830
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:48,960
and report back in those types of things.

831
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:50,340
Yeah, no, that's helpful.

832
01:15:50,580 --> 01:15:51,240
Also, guarantees.

833
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:53,260
What guarantees do we have to get this grant?

834
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:54,460
Is there any?

835
01:15:54,620 --> 01:15:58,540
I mean, we're going to put the application in, but do we have any guarantees as well

836
01:15:58,540 --> 01:16:00,680
all that this can benefit our city.

837
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:02,580
Yeah, thanks for the question.

838
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:05,160
No, I can't guarantee you'll get the program.

839
01:16:05,500 --> 01:16:08,880
I can provide guarantees in the fact that it will be

840
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:10,960
applying for a project that qualifies

841
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:12,360
and remediating all of the criteria,

842
01:16:12,360 --> 01:16:15,240
but there is only a certain amount of funding

843
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:16,780
being provided to the province

844
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:22,900
and it does depend on the total monetary value

845
01:16:22,900 --> 01:16:24,620
of all of the applications being made

846
01:16:24,620 --> 01:16:25,400
in those types of things.

847
01:16:25,580 --> 01:16:27,880
So unfortunately there's no guarantees

848
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:30,380
when it comes to the amount or whether it will be successful.

849
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:33,400
No, that's fair, and that's kind of what was my next question around what other cities,

850
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:36,980
so there's already a couple cities that are in front of us and likely accessing this funds.

851
01:16:37,440 --> 01:16:41,540
And, you know, I hope I don't see a reason why we wouldn't qualify for this grand funding.

852
01:16:41,540 --> 01:16:44,920
So I'm hopeful we are, but that was the next question I had around other cities.

853
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,740
And then you also said something that I'm really happy to hear as well, unrelated to this,

854
01:16:48,820 --> 01:16:51,980
but boarded up houses working on and taking a very aggressive approach.

855
01:16:51,980 --> 01:16:56,300
I know that's been a concern in all the wards that we'd like to see address.

856
01:16:56,300 --> 01:16:59,700
So we're looking forward to hearing that report now on this motion.

857
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:10,600
You know, I get the frustration I too feel like there's reasons why municipalities engage in planners and we go through, you know, all this work to ensure a city looks a certain way in neighborhood looks, you know, drives with the next neighborhood.

858
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:15,720
And so I get I get the frustration when we're told it doesn't matter make the change in order to get the funding.

859
01:17:16,140 --> 01:17:24,020
However, to the points made today, we can say to those one of those hops and choices again, we can't say no to these things and so it's going to benefit the community if approved, of course.

860
01:17:24,020 --> 01:17:36,400
But also, it's, you know, it addresses some of our housing needs we have in the city and it's tough to say, you know, this is something that we're engaging in because of some of the rules you put in place.

861
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:45,440
It's something that it's necessary for the city. It's unfortunate that the government have taken these positions, but, you know, we're all on board with the monies coming into our community, so I'm very happy to that.

862
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:48,920
And I'm going to be voting no against this motion and yes to the original motion. Thank you.

863
01:17:49,500 --> 01:17:53,340
Thank you, Councillor Hedges. Just to follow up question to Councillor Hedges' point.

864
01:17:54,460 --> 01:17:58,000
So we submit an application. What's the typical turnaround time? Or is there a typical

865
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:04,380
turnaround time when would we hear back? Yeah, we have, they haven't announced phase

866
01:18:04,380 --> 01:18:11,260
one of the program. It usually does take several months. But yeah, that's a question that

867
01:18:11,260 --> 01:18:15,620
we will be following up and get a better idea of when we'll be hearing back.

868
01:18:15,620 --> 01:18:23,300
So we would probably have an idea by next construction season more than likely I know you can't give me any certainty to that

869
01:18:23,300 --> 01:18:31,120
Yeah, so for example, it was a spring application for the first phase of Chiff and I believe that those

870
01:18:32,220 --> 01:18:37,960
Those individuals haven't been advised yet. So that was in the spring. We're now in the fall. So

871
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:43,320
I'm not sure when they're even going to be advising the phase one

872
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:50,900
individuals of their application so it is very hard to indicate when it might be it could be an

873
01:18:50,900 --> 01:18:59,220
entire year. Thank you for the response. Next we have Mayor Polinsky. Thank you Deputy and thank

874
01:18:59,220 --> 01:19:06,840
your colleagues and I agree with Councillor Brown in terms of it feels like we're being forced in

875
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:14,880
in the ideal world we would get money from the government, no strings attached, certainly

876
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:19,800
not the environment that we live in these days or probably never did.

877
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:27,000
So if it was open season with no restrictions, that would be awesome.

878
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:29,080
It's not unusual.

879
01:19:29,440 --> 01:19:34,580
In fact, it's the common practice for any program of the government runs to put conditions.

880
01:19:35,500 --> 01:19:41,920
and we have a choice as Councillor Brawins illustrated, you know, we can express a concern

881
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:48,180
and say, well, we choose not to participate and that's fair. As Councillor Edwards pointed

882
01:19:48,180 --> 01:19:55,180
out, we would have a certain amount of accountability to about 2.8 million and annual servicing costs

883
01:19:55,180 --> 01:20:03,560
for debt only or only the interest. The other thing is I want to encourage us not to get caught

884
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:33,540
on the weeds on this. I mean, there's there's principle, which means I feel I'm being bullied, but there's a practicality, and that practicality goes back to the fact that yes, there are restrictions, but yes, this fits with our housing needs survey, it fits with the desire that we have alongside the federal government to increase housing stock, to increase affordable housing, to respond to obviously what our, you know, our needs are, and it aligns

885
01:20:33,540 --> 01:20:37,200
It's very well with what the federal government is putting out at the moment.

886
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:44,360
The other thing I've done is I've taken a look at the official community plan, is indicated

887
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:55,160
by Dr. King or in the report, you know, 6.313, so it's promoted a mix of uses in each neighborhood

888
01:20:55,160 --> 01:21:03,200
so that each is complete with a range of residential densities, amenities, parks, commercial

889
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:11,120
units. So we've already committed in a community plan, an official plan to look at implementing

890
01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:19,100
this type of housing approach. So, you know, all programs require conditions, and that's

891
01:21:19,100 --> 01:21:24,760
given, but I think what we really need to do is elevate the thinking, not feeling with

892
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:32,480
hurt feelings that, you know, we're being pushed around, simply put, we have an official community

893
01:21:32,480 --> 01:21:46,140
plan, we have a housing need survey, everything aligns up so I certainly, you know, with respect, I can't support this motion but I can certainly support the initial motion. Thank you.

894
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:49,400
Thank you, Mayor. Councillor Pronto.

895
01:21:50,580 --> 01:21:59,140
Thank you, Deputy Mayor. I, and maybe I'll hear from some of my residents but I don't feel bullied by this.

896
01:21:59,140 --> 01:22:04,700
I think you know funding from all levels of government have always had some sort of string

897
01:22:04,700 --> 01:22:10,700
and I think it would be a dream of municipalities or provinces to have no strings at any point

898
01:22:10,700 --> 01:22:17,460
in time but they always exist governments have priorities and you know bullying would be

899
01:22:17,460 --> 01:22:24,280
we're forced to do this but we're not we're not being forced we want the funding so we do have

900
01:22:24,280 --> 01:22:31,120
choices in front of us, one choice is to not change the zoning by-law, which is the

901
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:33,620
motion on the board, which I definitely won't be supporting.

902
01:22:34,440 --> 01:22:37,100
But there's a couple of things that I'm thinking about.

903
01:22:37,140 --> 01:22:38,840
I think we're on the cusp of growth right now.

904
01:22:40,260 --> 01:22:45,120
You know, when I'm driving around the city, I'm seeing development all over the place.

905
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:46,000
Cranes up.

906
01:22:46,440 --> 01:22:51,600
You know, today I drove by two cranes at the hospital and a mini crane by the McDonald's

907
01:22:51,980 --> 01:22:52,220
house.

908
01:22:53,060 --> 01:22:58,020
I'm seeing new apartment buildings, you know, with the fresh, fresh pavement all around it.

909
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:04,640
You know, the free market in an economy like this where things are growing, I think is maybe the best way to go.

910
01:23:05,420 --> 01:23:18,400
It could be maybe the neighborhood that I chose to live in, but the neighborhood that I choose to live in, and many of my fellow citizens live in, is already quite, quite mixed.

911
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:25,220
So it could be just maybe the kind of person I am and the kind of communities that lots of us live with live in in the middle of the city

912
01:23:25,220 --> 01:23:29,240
But I don't feel bullied in and I definitely will be supporting

913
01:23:30,740 --> 01:23:34,300
Emotion that looks like the the first one that was put before us

914
01:23:36,780 --> 01:23:40,820
Okay, thank you. We have four left in the queue and then we'll go to vote. So council Brown

915
01:23:42,820 --> 01:23:49,120
Yes, thank you, Deputy Mayor. I guess um my question for all of my colleagues um

916
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:55,640
What are we here for if not to fight against being pressured into doing something we know is not right?

917
01:23:57,540 --> 01:24:03,380
You know who who is going to be the first to stand up against the government and say no what you're doing is wrong.

918
01:24:04,440 --> 01:24:11,900
I didn't run for federal politics or provincial politics. I ran for the West flat and you know what?

919
01:24:12,340 --> 01:24:18,620
I'm a voice of the common man and you know what? I don't agree with what they're doing to us. So

920
01:24:18,620 --> 01:24:24,980
So if it's not a guarantee, this money, they're just throwing in front of our face like

921
01:24:24,980 --> 01:24:27,720
a carrot and we're going to be a horse chasing it down the road.

922
01:24:28,460 --> 01:24:32,080
Why not fight an arm and it's a 50-50 chance?

923
01:24:33,220 --> 01:24:36,440
But at least we will be seen as fighting for what's right.

924
01:24:37,240 --> 01:24:37,480
You know what?

925
01:24:37,860 --> 01:24:42,880
You guys want to be trailblazers in the country or whatever.

926
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:53,460
You want to fight for the facility there to rank the Cultural Advanced Center.

927
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:59,580
You know what? Let's get on the national stage. Let's say, hey, what you guys are doing is wrong.

928
01:25:00,300 --> 01:25:07,480
We're not going to fall for it. Don't threaten us with not giving us money because we're not going to change our bylaws.

929
01:25:07,480 --> 01:25:15,860
We're in municipality and we're growing municipality. Let's fight for our citizens. I

930
01:25:15,860 --> 01:25:21,480
Know some of you guys don't agree with me, but hey, you know what? I'm coming at it as a guy from the West Flat

931
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:29,160
Trying to speak some common sense into us. I'm not a politician you guys. I know I'm not right most of the time after time some of the time

932
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:34,400
But you know what this is wrong and I'm gonna argue with you guys

933
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:49,760
bill the end of the time that let's do what's right. Let's not cave in to pressure. This is a democracy. This is not this thing where the federal government just tells us hey, this is what you're doing.

934
01:25:50,300 --> 01:26:01,140
You're going to get the COVID shot. This is the way it is. You know, let's stop it. Let's say no. You guys work for us. I work for the citizens.

935
01:26:01,140 --> 01:26:02,460
Do you have a point coming, Councillor?

936
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:09,620
Yeah, my point is pretty much we're being blackmailed and I don't like it.

937
01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:17,900
So I'm going to speak my mind and that's just the way it is so those were just my points.

938
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:18,840
Thank you.

939
01:26:19,260 --> 01:26:20,900
We have a point of privilege of being called,

940
01:26:23,500 --> 01:26:24,620
Councillor Pronto.

941
01:26:25,340 --> 01:26:32,360
I do recall that we're really not supposed to speak ill of provincial or federal governments

942
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:37,300
So I think that there's some lines that are coming very close to being crossed here.

943
01:26:38,660 --> 01:26:43,020
Thank you. I would tend to agree with that and Councillor Brown is done with this comments

944
01:26:43,020 --> 01:26:46,720
and we'll move on to the next and just keep that in mind moving forward. Councillor Brown,

945
01:26:46,780 --> 01:26:53,180
we do have that in our, you can make points, but it has to be very balanced, right? So.

946
01:26:54,140 --> 01:26:59,330
Thank you. And thank you for the point of privilege, Councillor.

947
01:26:59,330 --> 01:27:03,610
Councillor, Councillor Pronto. Next we have Councillor Leewoods.

948
01:27:07,250 --> 01:27:14,350
Thank you, Deputy Mayor. I too don't appreciate kind of what's going on.

949
01:27:14,470 --> 01:27:21,530
I didn't like the original, but in regards to funding, all funding comes with conditions.

950
01:27:21,850 --> 01:27:26,450
I don't like the fact that it's kind of carte blanche the whole city.

951
01:27:26,450 --> 01:27:29,930
The whole city has to fall to this.

952
01:27:31,270 --> 01:27:38,450
We do have a housing approach, but we should have things in line to protect certain areas.

953
01:27:39,310 --> 01:27:47,330
My question to the director, is there any form of kind of contingency that we can put

954
01:27:47,330 --> 01:27:56,090
in place like this goes through on the condition, will come into effect when the funding is approved?

955
01:27:56,090 --> 01:28:02,330
And will that satisfy the federal government that this will come into effect once that funding

956
01:28:02,330 --> 01:28:02,850
is approved?

957
01:28:06,290 --> 01:28:08,010
Yeah, thank you for the question, Councillor Layow.

958
01:28:08,150 --> 01:28:17,370
It's a point well taken, the federal government application process requires approval of the

959
01:28:17,370 --> 01:28:17,770
program.

960
01:28:18,010 --> 01:28:24,170
So the zoning by-law needs to be amended and changed as part of our application package.

961
01:28:24,170 --> 01:28:43,890
As spoken to earlier, if we don't get the funding or the funding dollars don't equate to it doesn't cross that threshold where we're comfortable, of course a report can be brought back to revisit the zoning by-law amendment but to your question it needs to be approved and inserted into the by-law.

962
01:28:44,690 --> 01:28:50,210
Okay, if the funding for phase one isn't approved this year, it's a 10 year program.

963
01:28:50,590 --> 01:28:52,450
Will it be reapplied for next year?

964
01:28:53,210 --> 01:28:53,810
Phase one.

965
01:28:54,210 --> 01:28:55,050
Yeah, thank you the question.

966
01:28:55,310 --> 01:29:00,910
It does depend a little bit on the intake for the program and the projects that are approved.

967
01:29:01,170 --> 01:29:04,190
It is a finite number, right, $6 billion across the country.

968
01:29:04,710 --> 01:29:09,650
So right now, we know that there's a second intake for the program, and that's what we're focused on.

969
01:29:09,730 --> 01:29:12,430
We haven't been told what next steps are for the program itself.

970
01:29:12,430 --> 01:29:14,770
whether there's going to be a third intake or a fourth intake.

971
01:29:15,130 --> 01:29:23,910
If the money is allocated after the second intake, that's the full amount across the country to all provinces, then that would be it.

972
01:29:25,510 --> 01:29:30,030
Okay, yeah, I just don't want to see a continued denial for funding.

973
01:29:30,030 --> 01:29:34,950
Well, we have one, two, three, four years of this going on.

974
01:29:36,310 --> 01:29:41,070
But no, I guess that was my question is whether or not we could have a contingency in there, but thank you for the answer.

975
01:29:41,070 --> 01:29:44,610
Councillor. Thank you, Councillor. It's Councillor Ring.

976
01:29:46,410 --> 01:29:51,910
Sorry, there you go. Thank you, Deputy Mayor. I've been fairly silent because all the

977
01:29:51,910 --> 01:29:56,990
questions that I had had been answered by other questions. I really have-

978
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:29,920
We've had up to this point, but I definitely will not be supporting this particular motion on the screen. I think both motions are one and the same. If you defeat the first motion, you're voting for this motion. So it's kind of a root point. I think we should go back to the original motion. Or once we defeat this one, we will go back to the original motion. And if people want to support this motion, they'll vote down the original motion.

979
01:30:29,920 --> 01:30:36,220
So it's kind of one and the same, but with that, I do have one question for the director.

980
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:48,040
Of all the, what we're referring to here and with this change in by law is only affecting R1 and R2.

981
01:30:48,820 --> 01:30:56,780
How many vacant and or developed properties are there that fall under that by law?

982
01:30:56,780 --> 01:31:00,180
Yeah, thank you for the question, Councillor Ring.

983
01:31:00,420 --> 01:31:02,720
I can't give you a number, but I can give you an idea.

984
01:31:02,980 --> 01:31:07,780
So our entire Crescent Acres city on development on the east, east side of the city, right?

985
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:13,720
That equates to, you know, there's 100 plus lots and more lots to come as they get developed.

986
01:31:14,260 --> 01:31:19,000
Our entire West Hill neighborhood that you're seeing at Lake Estates, et cetera, et cetera,

987
01:31:19,260 --> 01:31:25,180
is, it would affect those areas, those are the new areas that would be impacted.

988
01:31:25,180 --> 01:31:31,120
You're correct, though, our current zones zoned are three and are four already allow for

989
01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:38,580
You know, right anything above and beyond for units as the right so our R1 and R2 zones

990
01:31:38,580 --> 01:31:43,760
Undeveloped right now are primarily those two areas and there are sporadic vacant lots

991
01:31:44,260 --> 01:31:46,440
And there's pockets in those

992
01:31:47,500 --> 01:31:50,020
Neighborhoods that are zoned are three and are four correct

993
01:31:50,640 --> 01:32:00,780
So it's not affecting all of them, and you've got the safeguards within the zoning bylaws anyways with setbacks and parking and site coverage and everything that are protecting.

994
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:14,140
Kind of our interest in those neighborhoods that you're not going to see these as people have referred to monstrosities being built on there because they just can't.

995
01:32:14,140 --> 01:32:18,940
And the biggest one is site coverage and number one, parking.

996
01:32:19,820 --> 01:32:28,160
You pretty much need a rear lane to put anything more than three units on a site in order

997
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:30,660
to meet your parking requirements.

998
01:32:30,980 --> 01:32:34,940
So I have no problem with the original motion.

999
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:37,180
I'm in support of it.

1000
01:32:37,360 --> 01:32:41,000
I get the fact that we are kind of feeling kind of bullied.

1001
01:32:42,660 --> 01:32:50,860
but not really. It's our choice to vote it down. So they're not telling us just put it in place

1002
01:32:50,860 --> 01:32:56,520
without debating it and we are debating it. And I think all the questions have been answered. I'm

1003
01:32:56,520 --> 01:33:03,700
in full support of the original motion, but this one I just don't see the reasoning behind it because

1004
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:09,620
that's where we'd go if we defaded the first motion. So it's kind of a moot point.

1005
01:33:10,300 --> 01:33:18,160
That's all I've had, hopefully we can move on and vote how we will and move on to the

1006
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:18,620
motion.

1007
01:33:19,140 --> 01:33:19,460
Thank you.

1008
01:33:20,860 --> 01:33:21,720
Councillor Kilmer.

1009
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:22,920
Whoops.

1010
01:33:23,880 --> 01:33:24,220
There we go.

1011
01:33:24,620 --> 01:33:28,060
Thank you very much and I want to thank all my colleagues for the points that they brought

1012
01:33:28,060 --> 01:33:30,040
up and a really good discussion.

1013
01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:40,000
and I really appreciate that the federal government's commitment to housing because we have

1014
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:42,620
a commitment to housing and the housing need as well.

1015
01:33:44,860 --> 01:33:49,620
I would prefer it to be a little less prescriptive, a little less directive.

1016
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:55,540
I would prefer a little bit more leeway because of the unique circumstances that we feel each

1017
01:33:55,540 --> 01:34:01,880
of our communities have, but that is not the case with this particular program.

1018
01:34:02,700 --> 01:34:11,120
So because of that, I am going to vote against the current motion and for the motion that

1019
01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:15,800
was originally, or it was not a motion but the next motion.

1020
01:34:19,230 --> 01:34:19,590
Thank you.

1021
01:34:19,950 --> 01:34:24,850
And just before we go to a vote, I just want to conclude the debate with a comment that

1022
01:34:25,430 --> 01:34:29,990
We all care for our community deeply and we all come from our different

1023
01:34:29,990 --> 01:34:33,170
words or different areas of the city and we come together for common issues.

1024
01:34:33,790 --> 01:34:36,270
And this is a common issue that affects the entire community.

1025
01:34:36,630 --> 01:34:41,550
And when we come with different perspectives and different points of debate,

1026
01:34:42,170 --> 01:34:43,070
that's positive.

1027
01:34:43,450 --> 01:34:47,550
We're building up a more thought-out and rounded decision.

1028
01:34:47,990 --> 01:34:51,550
And I think the debate that happened or this has been very good.

1029
01:34:51,550 --> 01:35:01,710
and just want to, you know, make sure that it reminds everyone that we are here to work together even though we may not have the same point of view, and with that, I think we're going to take it to a vote.

1030
01:35:02,290 --> 01:35:02,790
So thank you.

1031
01:35:13,490 --> 01:35:22,510
Okay, so we're voting on the zoning by-law changes to allow for use of a right and all residential zones not be pursued. That is the motion.

1032
01:35:30,610 --> 01:35:33,490
Okay, and that is defeated 8 to 1.

1033
01:35:39,780 --> 01:35:41,180
Council, can I please have a motion?

1034
01:35:41,180 --> 01:35:41,940
I

1035
01:35:48,500 --> 01:35:49,120
need to move her though.

1036
01:35:50,340 --> 01:35:51,000
Councilor Ring.

1037
01:35:51,700 --> 01:35:54,180
I'll move the original motion.

1038
01:35:54,540 --> 01:35:54,880
Thank you.

1039
01:35:57,820 --> 01:35:59,600
Any further discussion or debate?

1040
01:36:03,460 --> 01:36:04,120
Mayor Polensky.

1041
01:36:04,880 --> 01:36:06,680
Oh, thank you for bringing that motion forward.

1042
01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:11,800
And I was sitting here thinking about how you define a bully.

1043
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:15,800
And my experience growing up as a bully takes your lunch money.

1044
01:36:16,480 --> 01:36:20,780
And this is the case of somebody taking our lunch money

1045
01:36:20,780 --> 01:36:25,780
it's somebody who's saying if you do this I'll do this for you. So thank you.

1046
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:28,740
Okay, any other discussion?

1047
01:36:32,030 --> 01:36:35,890
Seeing none. See Clerk is it prepared? Not quite yet.

1048
01:37:03,710 --> 01:37:04,750
Okay, that vote is open.

1049
01:37:07,740 --> 01:37:08,160
Okay, and that

1050
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:09,220
passes eight to one.

1051
01:37:12,490 --> 01:37:16,350
Well thank you for again the vibrant discussion and we have no one finished

1052
01:37:16,350 --> 01:37:21,100
business and Councillor Brown.

1053
01:37:23,540 --> 01:37:24,040
Thank you, sir.

1054
01:37:35,130 --> 01:37:37,930
And that vote is now open.

1055
01:37:43,220 --> 01:37:52,160
Okay, that passes unanimously. And with that we will know we closing the session and the in-camera

1056
01:37:52,160 --> 01:37:56,300
will come back in ten minutes please at 5.45.