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before.

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» Okay. All right. Welcome to our council

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meeting for August 13th. Please stand

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for the pledge of allegiance.

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» Algiance to the flag of the United

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States of America,

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>> to the republic for which it stands, one

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nation under God, indivisible, with

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liberty and justice for all.

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» Right. First up is open forum. Would you

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like to speak, Jim?

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>> [laughter]

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» Assuming there's nothing on that sheet.

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We'll move on. There's no presentations

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tonight. Um move on to approve agenda.

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Council members may add items to the

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agenda for discussion purposes or staff

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direction only. The council will not

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normally take official action on items

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added to the agenda.

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>> Move to approve.

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I'll second.

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>> All right, we have a motion and a

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second. All in favor?

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>> I.

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>> All right, that motion passes. Consent

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agenda. These items are considered to be

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routine and will be enacted by one

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motion. There will be no separate

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discussion of these items unless a

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council member so requests in which I

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event the item will be removed from the

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consent agenda and placed elsewhere on

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the agenda. Anyone have anything? Um, I

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have an item uh item 5.8.

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Okay.

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Anything else? I think that'll be it.

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>> I'll move to approve.

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the Go ahead.

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You need to run, brother

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council. You should

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» Okay, quick. Jim, what do you have a

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question on?

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Madame Mayor and council members, the W

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Communities Program is a program offered

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through the Metropolitan Council.

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There's numerous different grant

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opportunities, one of which is policy

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related. The

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>> city was awarded a grant to pay for

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almost the entirety of a housing study.

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The housing study is not directed by the

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Metropolitan Council. It's directed by

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us. they just fund the program. So we

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have also on that item an agreement with

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Stantech to complete the housing study.

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The information from the housing study

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helps influence what goes into the

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comprehensive plan identifies our needs

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from a housing standpoint

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>> or some in the case if there was a case

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of being a certain product type

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overbuilt. So it's really giving us a

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background that we need for anything

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housing related for the community as we

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move forward.

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>> So it gives us a good inventory of

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existing housing in the city.

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>> Good.

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>> Thank you.

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>> I'd uh move to approve the consent

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agenda less item 5.

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» Second.

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>> All right. I have a motion and a second.

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All in favor? I

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>> I

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>> All right. 5.8 acceptance of a donation

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from Roger Rogers.

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>> I can't talk tonight. Rogers at Seigo

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Youth Baseball. Mainly I just wanted to

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highlight um and thank them for the

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donation. We always appreciate

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donations. And it was uh $10,000. So

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that's pretty impressive. Thank you.

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>> That's wonderful. Thank you so much.

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>> Indeed.

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>> And I'll move to approve 5.8.

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>> I'll second.

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>> All right. We have a motion and a

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second. All in favor?

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>> I.

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>> All right. That motion passes. Thanks

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again, youth baseball.

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All right. We have no public hearings

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tonight, so we'll move on to general

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business. Consider amendments to city

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code and zoning code related to the

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keeping of animals and backyard

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chickens.

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Let's see. Uh are you able to see the

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PowerPoint that I'm attempting to share?

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Believe so.

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uh does only meeting organizers and

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presenters.

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Well, I pull this up. I can give some

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background on the item before turning it

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over to Zach. Um, over the past year or

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so, we've been spending quite a bit of

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time and discussion on backyard

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chickens. Uh we starting with an

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individual who came to open forum and

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through he was having active code

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enforcement case at that time. City

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council asked to look further into it at

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which point we did a [clears throat]

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um a larger survey which had over 550

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responses to it to get a good baseline

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of what the general residents feel was

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to the item. Um the survey was really to

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see trends on a few different items that

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we wanted to see. And through that

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discussion, we presented to the city

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council the different items that we had

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received feedback on and that led to the

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council direction to draft an ordinance

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which was reviewed by the planning

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commission earlier this month. And Zach

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will go through some of the details on

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that ordinance.

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>> Thanks Brett. Uh madame mayor,

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counselors, good to see you again. Um, a

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lot of this presentation, uh, is going

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to be pretty similar to the one that we,

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uh, went over at the planning

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commission, but with just a lot of the

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recommendations that we got from both

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the planning commission, counselors,

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and, uh, some of the general public at

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that last meeting.

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So, just a summary to go through it

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again, just kind of what the ordinance

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is in its complete form, um, is it we're

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going to allow residents on smaller lots

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to keep backyard chickens. Uh, this will

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be under subsection F of backyard

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chickens. Uh the ordinance required us

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to create kind of a new section in our zoning code which is uh going to be

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labeled 1-125-95

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uh keeping of animals. So, it's going to

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keep um house the the backyard chickens

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as well as relocating some of our uh

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code, you know, regarding uh livestock

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and and kennel operations into this

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section uh just for clarity and um

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easier when people are trying to kind of

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figure out what the the regulations are

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on some of these things. Um

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so, that also required us to reumber

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some tables within section 125 just to

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maintain numeric consistency. and then

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uh the amendment uh to 125102 where we

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house all of our definitions for some of

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the new terms that are referenced in

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this backyard chickens ordinance just so

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there's uh clarity u when people are are

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reading the ordinance.

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So I kind of went over some of this

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already but um yep relocating uh animals

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and farming operations, livestock

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operations into this new 125-95.

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We also updated some of our language um

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surrounding feed lots just to make sure

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that we were compliant with MPCA

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requirements um and the state

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requirements with uh livestock

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operations. Just for kind of background,

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currently the way that our code was

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written um if we would have allowed uh

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backyard chickens without updating our

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uh feed lot language in our our

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amendment or in our code, it would have

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technically been a feed lot. So we

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basically just updated our definition of

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a feed lot to uh exempt smallcale

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operations uh similar to you know

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keeping backyard chickens. These are uh

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different from you know livestock uh

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large agricultural operations that would

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be considered a feed lot by the state.

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Um let's see here. I think all this I've

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kind of gone through already. Um so

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we'll get into kind of some of the

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feedback that we uh heard from the last

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uh planning commission meeting on uh

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August 3rd. So uh a big takeaway from

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that meeting was both the some of the

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people that spoke from the public as

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well as planning commissioners wanted to

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see some sort of permit process um

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before keeping check-ins. The original

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ordinance that we brought to the

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planning commission did not uh have a

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permit process. Um through discussion

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between counselors and planning uh uh

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commissioners, I think we kind of ca

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staff came to an agreement that uh an

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actual full-on permit would be very

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labor intensive and taxing on on staff.

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And that's would potentially even could

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have required adding a staff member for

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this. And so the uh what staff is

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recommending uh with this ordinance now

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is that it'll be a uh kind of a

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registration license process um but it

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won't have an inspection. So I'll get

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over or I'll go over the actual uh like

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what that license processing is going to

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look like in a couple slides here. But

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that's kind of where we're at is that

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we're not recommending a permit process,

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but we are recommending a license um for

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this uh keeping back our chickens at

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this time. Um there were concerns over

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the number of chickens being allowed. Uh

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the planning commission uh multiple

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commissioners made comments that they

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felt it was overly complicated. So we

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kind of simplified the table that we'll

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go over here in a second. Um staff was

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seeking feedback at that meeting on

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minimum lot size and just distances that

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these chicken coops or runs need to be

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um set back from neighbor neighboring

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residential dwellings. Um it seemed like

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uh that the initial recommendation of

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0.2 acres being the minimum was uh was

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uh agreeable for most commissioners and

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so we're still recommending that and

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keeping the uh 30 foot setback although

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we did update some of the language to

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clarify that it needs to be 30 ft from a

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residential dwelling. Earlier it was

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just a residential structure. So, uh it

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doesn't necessarily have to be 30 ft

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from somebody's shed, but somebody's

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house uh dwelling um which is defined in

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our code. So,

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um and then we did get some community

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feedback on just uh some concerns about

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how early we should be requiring

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residents to move uh chicks out of the

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out of a dwelling or garage. Um, so we

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just kind of relaxed those standards a

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little bit by a couple of weeks just to

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um we were educated and did some

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research on that and a lot of sources

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were recommending that it takes a couple

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more weeks for chickens to reach the

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maturity where they can survive outside

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um especially if it's a colder spring or

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something like that. So,

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uh Brett kind of went through this

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already, but some backyard uh or

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background on kind of how we got to this

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point. So, the survey was sent out in

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late 2025 following some community uh

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feedback of of asking whether or not

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they can have chickens. Um, like Brett

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said, we received over 550 responses.

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Uh, 70% of the people that filled out

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the survey did want to allow for

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backyard chickens, but the majority did

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also want to have a minimum lot size

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restriction put in place. Um, 0.2 acres

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was the uh most commonly selected answer

276
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,160
for minimum lot size. and uh staff

277
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,079
directed were directed to draft an

278
00:12:30,079 --> 00:12:32,639
ordinance at the June 23rd of this year

279
00:12:32,639 --> 00:12:35,839
uh city council work session. So um we

280
00:12:35,839 --> 00:12:37,680
did some research into various cities in

281
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,480
the region. Um most cities that do allow

282
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,279
them are allowing anywhere from four to

283
00:12:43,279 --> 00:12:44,639
six are the are kind of the common

284
00:12:44,639 --> 00:12:46,399
numbers that we're seeing. Permit

285
00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:49,040
processes are pretty split. Some cities

286
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,279
are allow are requiring them, others

287
00:12:51,279 --> 00:12:54,240
aren't. Um, and the most common

288
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,160
complaint when staff reached out to

289
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,079
other cities to kind of see, you know,

290
00:12:58,079 --> 00:13:00,480
how how it was going, what are the

291
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:01,680
what's the feedback that you've gotten

292
00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:04,560
from citizens? Um, birds getting loose

293
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:06,880
tends to be the most common issue that,

294
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,639
uh, other cities see. [clears throat]

295
00:13:08,639 --> 00:13:11,440
Um, and as you would expect, the

296
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:12,720
majority complaints in the spring,

297
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,480
summer, um, when people are getting

298
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,800
chickens in the first place. Um, a lot

299
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,040
of cities do allow other birds other

300
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,279
than chickens, such as ducks, geese. Uh

301
00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:23,279
the ordinance that staff is proposing

302
00:13:23,279 --> 00:13:25,519
tonight is only allowing chickens, not

303
00:13:25,519 --> 00:13:29,760
other uh fowl. So um as I stated before

304
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,560
recommending 02 acres um a little bit of

305
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,279
background on that one uh that seemed to

306
00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:38,240
be what kind of council and a lot of uh

307
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,279
the general feedback from the survey uh

308
00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:43,760
was pushing staff towards and we did do

309
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,040
some analysis on lots in the city and uh

310
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,600
that 0.2 2 acres does seem to be a good

311
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,000
number that staff feels good about if we

312
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,200
were to increase that to 0.25 acres. Um

313
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,480
we would be excluding around 730 homes.

314
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,920
Um just analys analyzing lot sizes and

315
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,160
uh things like that. Um this will be for

316
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,079
single detach family only. This uh

317
00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:08,240
ordinance will not allow people in

318
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,240
duplexes, town homes, things like that

319
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,600
to to have backyard chickens. And as I

320
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:14,720
stated before, based on the public

321
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,639
feedback, we are now recommending that

322
00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:18,560
we'll have a license to be able to keep

323
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,880
uh chickens. So,

324
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,079
kind of some summary of what the

325
00:14:22,079 --> 00:14:24,160
ordinance actually has in it. So, on the

326
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,399
top left there, this is the a simplified

327
00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:29,120
table. Before we had it broken out into

328
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,639
more categories depending on what your

329
00:14:30,639 --> 00:14:32,800
lot size was. Feedback was just to

330
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,040
simplify this. So, like I said, if

331
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:36,399
you're on less than 0.2 acres, you won't

332
00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:38,160
be allowed. Um, and then it's going to

333
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,399
kind of scale up until you get to that 3

334
00:14:40,399 --> 00:14:43,040
acres or more area or size, which you'll

335
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,959
be able to keep 20 hens. Or if you're in

336
00:14:44,959 --> 00:14:48,160
an A or R1 zone, um, you'll be able to

337
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:49,519
keep, uh, the number of poultry as

338
00:14:49,519 --> 00:14:51,839
permitted by our livestock uh, units.

339
00:14:51,839 --> 00:14:53,680
So,

340
00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,199
um,

341
00:14:55,199 --> 00:14:58,320
the ordinance is drafted to, uh, prevent

342
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,480
against, uh, you know, nuisance

343
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,800
conditions hopefully. So, chicks, uh,

344
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,160
coups and run areas will have to be kept

345
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,120
in sanitary condition. Um the ordinance

346
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,000
explicitly states that manure must be uh

347
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,760
collected and stored until it can be

348
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,560
disposed of and then um in order to

349
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,199
prevent pests um collecting uh keeping

350
00:15:17,199 --> 00:15:20,880
feed in a rodent uh proof container um

351
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,680
to try to reduce any type of uh pest

352
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,399
coming in. Um and then as far as kind of

353
00:15:26,399 --> 00:15:28,800
setbacks and things like that. So we are

354
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,079
requiring the coups and runs will have

355
00:15:30,079 --> 00:15:31,839
to be 10 ft from any property line and

356
00:15:31,839 --> 00:15:33,760
as I mentioned earlier we clarified the

357
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,680
language 30 ft from any residential

358
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,079
dwelling is how the ordinance is uh

359
00:15:38,079 --> 00:15:40,399
written at this point. Um some other

360
00:15:40,399 --> 00:15:41,920
feedback we got at that planning

361
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,880
commission. It was in the uh ordinance

362
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,440
already, but just uh wanted to make sure

363
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,519
it's clear that we are requiring when

364
00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:52,160
somebody is going to uh want backyard

365
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,000
chickens that when they submit their

366
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,360
plans that they're going to have to have

367
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,480
four square ft of minimum uh uh floor

368
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,920
area per each bird and then 10 ft uh

369
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,480
square feet per hen in the run area to

370
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,399
uh make sure that they have enough room

371
00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:08,240
where there's not going to be, you know,

372
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,000
less likely to have diseases or or other

373
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,839
issues, things like that.

374
00:16:11,839 --> 00:16:14,800
Um, if the shelter, so the run area and

375
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,880
the coupe is less than 200 feet, we will

376
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,160
not be considering an accessory

377
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:19,920
structure and it won't require a a

378
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,120
building permit. They'll still have to

379
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,120
have a license. But if they're over that

380
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,279
200 ft, then they will need a building

381
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:26,800
permit in addition to the license and

382
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,160
then that will count as an accessory

383
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,079
structure, which depending on the zone

384
00:16:30,079 --> 00:16:32,800
that uh a resident is living in, we do

385
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,320
have restrictions on, you know, the

386
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,639
number of accessory structures that uh

387
00:16:36,639 --> 00:16:40,000
residents may have. So,

388
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:45,199
um, other things, uh, the most,

389
00:16:45,199 --> 00:16:46,800
especially small lots that are in the

390
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:48,800
city, they're going to have to have a

391
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,880
privacy fence or similar landscaping for

392
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:52,160
a coup and run. So, the way the

393
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,639
ordinance is written currently, uh, if

394
00:16:54,639 --> 00:16:57,440
your chicken coupe or run is within 30

395
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,279
ft of a neighboring property line, then,

396
00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:02,720
uh, you'll have to have it screened. If

397
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,039
you have, you know, a really wide lot or

398
00:17:05,039 --> 00:17:07,120
a bigger lot, um, you may be exempt from

399
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:10,160
that. But, uh, most of the smaller lots

400
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,959
that are in that, you know, 2 to 3 acre,

401
00:17:12,959 --> 00:17:15,280
uh, those are almost in all cases going

402
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,199
to have to have a 6oot privacy fence or similar landscaping just to kind of

403
00:17:19,199 --> 00:17:22,640
reduce the visual impact of these. Um,

404
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,720
and then just some other things. Uh,

405
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,120
this is roosters. Uh, roosters and

406
00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:28,559
crowing hens are not allowed on lots

407
00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:31,039
less than 3 acres. Um this is only hens

408
00:17:31,039 --> 00:17:33,360
just to reduce on the noise and we're

409
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:36,080
not allowing uh water fowl, pee foul or

410
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,280
any other uh similarly kept birds. So as

411
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:40,720
far as the license process, this is

412
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,480
something that staff uh worked on after

413
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,880
the last planning commission. Um this,

414
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,240
like I mentioned before, is not going to

415
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,480
require an on on-site inspection unless

416
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,559
the coupe is over 200 feet, which at

417
00:17:50,559 --> 00:17:52,000
that point it's into the building permit

418
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,440
territory. Um, and as the ordinance is

419
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,240
written, uh, when resident that wants to

420
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,480
keep chickens, when they submit their

421
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,080
application or for their license,

422
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:02,799
they're going to have to have the name

423
00:18:02,799 --> 00:18:04,480
and contact information, the property

424
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,240
address where the chickens will be kept.

425
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,000
If it's a renter situation, they're

426
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:09,120
going to need some kind of property

427
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:11,919
ownership consent. Um, the number of

428
00:18:11,919 --> 00:18:13,840
hens that they're proposing to keep, and

429
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,760
then as well as the location, size of

430
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,840
the coupe and run, and showing that it

431
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,520
meets setback requirements on their

432
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,120
plan.

433
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:23,440
Um, we also are viewing this license

434
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,799
page as kind of a uh landing spot or one

435
00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:30,400
kind of stop for residents. So, um,

436
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:31,840
we're going to have links to best

437
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,360
practices. The University of Minnesota

438
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:34,559
has a lot of really good information.

439
00:18:34,559 --> 00:18:36,880
There's a lot of other websites. I know

440
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,760
uh um we've gotten some some good

441
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:41,679
feedback from counselors and residents

442
00:18:41,679 --> 00:18:43,679
on on valuable information, you know,

443
00:18:43,679 --> 00:18:46,640
best practices. So, um we're hoping that

444
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,480
residents will when they are applying

445
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,240
for their license will be able to access

446
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,480
this information and um learn more about

447
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,880
it before maybe they jump into it. And

448
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,400
as far as kind of the mechanics of it,

449
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,000
the license will be a onetime process

450
00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,679
and valid for as long as chickens are

451
00:18:59,679 --> 00:19:01,520
kept on the property line. uh this

452
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:02,720
license will not be able to be

453
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,960
transferred if a resident moves or um uh

454
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,960
yeah and then uh just due to us the the

455
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,480
city switching over its permitting

456
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,400
process to IMS um in 2027, this

457
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:17,760
ordinance will not actually go into

458
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,360
effect until January 1st because that's

459
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:21,520
when we plan on launching this uh

460
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,480
license portal as well.

461
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,160
Um, so with that, I I think I'll uh open

462
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,600
it up for for questions or um comments

463
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:48,870
from counselors. Thanks.

464
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,880
How far from the property line? How far

465
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,799
from any dwelling? And what are we

466
00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:55,360
calling a dwelling?

467
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:57,120
Like I don't want it near my deck. I

468
00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:59,280
don't want it near my kid's playground.

469
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,360
I don't want it near my, you know what I

470
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:03,360
mean?

471
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:05,200
>> Cuz I've heard comments about that. Like

472
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,679
I don't like I build a playground for my

473
00:20:07,679 --> 00:20:10,160
kid and then my neighbors put a coupe

474
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,039
right next to it.

475
00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:16,640
So the way it's currently written is 10

476
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,559
feet from any property line um and 30

477
00:20:20,559 --> 00:20:23,840
feet from a dwelling. So to your

478
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,000
question that a dwelling would not

479
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:32,400
include something like a a swing set or something like that. But uh they

480
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:33,840
would not be able to put the coupe or

481
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,679
run area right up to the property line.

482
00:20:35,679 --> 00:20:38,080
They still had to have it 10 ft from the

483
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,760
property line. and feeds like from here

484
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:41,840
to there right to the podium

485
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,360
>> right and then also I would consider

486
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,120
like accessory structures also have

487
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:49,600
their own setbacks so obviously it's

488
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,280
going to depend on on the district but

489
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,159
in most cases you're would probably have

490
00:20:54,159 --> 00:20:57,039
at least 15 feet just based on if you're

491
00:20:57,039 --> 00:20:58,080
you know your neighbor has their

492
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,240
accessory structure cited where it's

493
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:01,919
supposed to be if your neighbor got

494
00:21:01,919 --> 00:21:03,919
chickens that 10 ft plus whatever you're

495
00:21:03,919 --> 00:21:04,720
supposed to have your

496
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:05,360
>> sure

497
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:07,120
>> but to your point though yes it's not

498
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:08,400
the way it's currently written it does

499
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:09,840
can't build a playground right on my

500
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:11,679
property line either, right? So, it

501
00:21:11,679 --> 00:21:13,520
would be it wouldn't be 10 ft.

502
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,840
>> But just so that it's uh you're it's

503
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,240
clear. Yeah. It's not uh the 30 ft only

504
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,679
refers to the dwelling, not um not any

505
00:21:21,679 --> 00:21:23,600
structure in in a neighbor's yard.

506
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,760
>> That too.

507
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:27,280
>> Is a deck considered part of the

508
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:32,710
dwelling?

509
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,559
Madame Mayor and council, usually a deck

510
00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:36,559
is not considered part of the overall

511
00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:38,320
principal dwelling unit, but it really

512
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,400
depends on how it's kind of laid out on

513
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,240
the property. Usually decks have shorter

514
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:43,679
setback, so they can encroach a little

515
00:21:43,679 --> 00:21:44,960
further than a house could on the

516
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,799
sideyard.

517
00:21:46,799 --> 00:21:48,559
So typically, no.

518
00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:50,400
>> So even if they're attached, they're not

519
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,400
considered part of the dwelling.

520
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,480
>> It's not considered the principal

521
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,640
dwelling. There are just similar how

522
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,559
decks can encroach into your rear yard

523
00:21:58,559 --> 00:22:01,200
setback and other features that a

524
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:09,655
principal dwelling couldn't.

525
00:22:09,665 --> 00:22:11,520
[clears throat and cough]

526
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:12,720
>> So, oh, go ahead.

527
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,039
>> The only question I had was on uh just

528
00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:17,679
to be clear on enforcement.

529
00:22:17,679 --> 00:22:19,760
So, we talked a little bit about it. You

530
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,520
know, Brett, you mentioned there'd be a

531
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,280
citation

532
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,240
or maybe you could just describe again

533
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,200
the how it escalates and then cuz my

534
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,320
expectation is that you get to the end

535
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,640
of that process. If you can't get

536
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,159
conformance, then we have a means to say

537
00:22:38,159 --> 00:22:42,000
you're off the list. you have to

538
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,520
uh

539
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,520
get rid of the chickens and dismantle

540
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,000
the coupe and you're done and you're on

541
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,159
the list that of folks that are no

542
00:22:50,159 --> 00:22:52,080
longer allowed to have chickens.

543
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,840
>> Yeah, madame council. So adding the

544
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,159
license process as Zach mentioned adds a

545
00:22:56,159 --> 00:22:57,600
kind of a separate layer to what was

546
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,679
discussed in the planning commission. So

547
00:22:59,679 --> 00:23:01,760
now if there is we're a complaint based

548
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,280
city. So, if the city receives a

549
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,520
complaint on someone's chicken keeping,

550
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,159
whether it's loose or animals, waste,

551
00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:10,960
whatever it may be, smell, um, city

552
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,120
would typically send a letter of

553
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:15,440
violation to the property owner stating

554
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,880
that they have x amount of time to

555
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,760
rectify the issue. Um, if they don't,

556
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,000
there could be with the licensing

557
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,960
process a revocation of their license,

558
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,120
which would then mean that they are no

559
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:28,559
longer allowed to keep chickens. If

560
00:23:28,559 --> 00:23:30,640
they're in violation of that, then

561
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,480
there's citations, which are typically a

562
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,000
misdemeanor charge. Um, and

563
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,679
they wouldn't be allowed to keep them.

564
00:23:37,679 --> 00:23:39,280
Everyone's going to need a license now

565
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,760
to operate. And if there's violations,

566
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,520
we can revoke those license. If there's

567
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,679
ongoing issues, we can seek further

568
00:23:45,679 --> 00:23:49,200
enforcement action. Um, the license adds

569
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,840
a little bit of an easier process from a

570
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,400
stat. Well, it's more work upfront. It

571
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,320
adds the ability to have all that

572
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,200
contact info for each ownership right

573
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,000
off the bat. Um, and it also means

574
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,440
everyone has to comply and follow and

575
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,280
should be reading the ordinance before

576
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,000
they get the chicken. So, we have kind

577
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,240
of a dual approach with the license. And

578
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,559
the way Zach laid it out is was our

579
00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:16,880
preferred method. Um, because we're

580
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:17,760
going to have a site plan. They're going

581
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,200
to have to submit a site plan to us. So,

582
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:20,720
we're going to see the actual distances

583
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,640
from the property line, everything

584
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,880
related to it. Um, without that license,

585
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,559
it meant a lot of people probably get

586
00:24:28,559 --> 00:24:30,000
them without reading the ordinance or

587
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,440
all the details of the ordinance. So,

588
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,520
this gives us a little bit additional

589
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,600
background to it. And being that it's a

590
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,000
non-insspection license, it really

591
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,240
drastically reduces that staff time

592
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:41,600
that's needed.

593
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,480
>> Um, the license itself as it is operated

594
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,000
will be operated through the community

595
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,360
development department. And so Alex's

596
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,120
going to be the one reviewing all the

597
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:52,159
license applications that comes in.

598
00:24:52,159 --> 00:24:53,760
>> So how is it different if someone just

599
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,279
does it without a license?

600
00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:56,559
>> Well, then they're in violation of the

601
00:24:56,559 --> 00:24:57,919
ordinance and they can get a misdemeanor

602
00:24:57,919 --> 00:25:01,520
charge for being in violation of our

603
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,039
ordinance.

604
00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:05,840
Usually we would send a letter stating,

605
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,760
"Hey, you need to have a license to have

606
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,440
chickens. You need to submit this, this,

607
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,960
and this to come into compliance." But

608
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,240
if they don't [clears throat] do that,

609
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,919
then there's enforcement action we can

610
00:25:15,919 --> 00:25:17,679
take.

611
00:25:17,679 --> 00:25:19,200
>> Good.

612
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,640
>> So, I have a question. Um, how does this

613
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,039
affect like legally non-conforming

614
00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:29,269
properties at this point?

615
00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:32,080
» Yeah, Madame Mayor and Council. So, the

616
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,000
way that it's written is really pertains

617
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,200
to all the districts. So, it's really

618
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,880
looking at single family dwelling units

619
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:42,640
as a specific use. So even if it's

620
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,840
say the a home in the RC district, if

621
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,440
it's a single family operated home and

622
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:48,960
it's meeting all the standards, I should

623
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,712
be able to get chickens still. So I'm

624
00:25:51,712 --> 00:25:52,799
[clears throat] thinking more along the

625
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:57,600
lines um if you're let like your zoning

626
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,520
changed, you own chickens, your zoning

627
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,440
changed, you're legally non-conforming

628
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:06,159
now. Um, does this force them to get in

629
00:26:06,159 --> 00:26:08,559
line with

630
00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:11,360
these numbers and stuff or how does that

631
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:12,400
work?

632
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:18,070
>> I would defer to Bob on that one.

633
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,640
» Leading the fifth. [laughter]

634
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,200
>> Yeah, making council. It's a it's a it's

635
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,200
a good question. Uh, I I think I'm

636
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,799
agreeing with what staff is saying. Um,

637
00:26:28,799 --> 00:26:31,120
uh, yes. uh because this would be an

638
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,840
accessory a permitted accessory use and

639
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,679
it's a permitted accessory use in all

640
00:26:35,679 --> 00:26:38,799
districts as long as the use that exists

641
00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:44,240
is a single family home. Uh I think the question you're raising counselor is

642
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,159
could we make the argument could the

643
00:26:46,159 --> 00:26:47,919
city make the argument could other folks

644
00:26:47,919 --> 00:26:50,080
in the community make the argument that

645
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,039
your non-conforming use your home in a

646
00:26:53,039 --> 00:26:55,120
district that doesn't allow homes is

647
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:58,240
being expanded by the presence of

648
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,679
chickens? And the answer to that is no.

649
00:26:59,679 --> 00:27:02,640
That argument wouldn't be available. Uh

650
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,799
because it's an a permitted accessory

651
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:06,960
use to a home and the home is legally

652
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,720
non-conforming. You could have the

653
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,919
coupe. However, to your point, you'd

654
00:27:11,919 --> 00:27:13,760
have to comply with all of the rules

655
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,279
that are being created here. If you

656
00:27:15,279 --> 00:27:17,120
approve this, you'd have to comply with

657
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:18,720
all those rules. There is no exception

658
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,400
because it's a legally non-conforming

659
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,559
use the house. There's no exception to

660
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:23,919
what you could do with the coupe. you'd

661
00:27:23,919 --> 00:27:25,440
have to comply with everything with

662
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,200
>> So, I'm thinking more along the lines

663
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,880
like we have rural residential um

664
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,919
properties that got then switched over

665
00:27:33,919 --> 00:27:35,520
to R2

666
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,919
>> and so they may have a higher number of

667
00:27:37,919 --> 00:27:38,720
birds.

668
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:39,279
>> Mhm.

669
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:41,919
>> Are they required now to go down to this

670
00:27:41,919 --> 00:27:42,799
number of birds?

671
00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:45,600
>> And I can actually hit that on that. So,

672
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,600
I didn't quite understand what you're

673
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,919
saying at first. Um

674
00:27:49,919 --> 00:27:51,440
the way that this ordinance is written

675
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,200
is relaxing the standard. So the way

676
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,399
that the existing

677
00:27:56,399 --> 00:27:58,159
code states is you have to be a minimum

678
00:27:58,159 --> 00:28:01,520
of 3 acres. So with this new code, if

679
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,399
you're hitting that 3 acre mark, you're

680
00:28:04,399 --> 00:28:06,559
still following the same feed lot

681
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:08,240
standards that we've had in the past.

682
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:08,720
Okay?

683
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,799
>> So anyone with their current operations

684
00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:12,720
that are meeting our current ordinance

685
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,880
will be able to remain the same. There's

686
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,120
the slight difference with the animal

687
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,480
units, but I would be highly shocked if

688
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,799
anyone at 4 acres actually has 200

689
00:28:22,799 --> 00:28:24,559
chickens. The way our current ordinance

690
00:28:24,559 --> 00:28:25,840
is written.

691
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,159
>> Okay, good. I just wanted to make sure

692
00:28:28,159 --> 00:28:29,360
we weren't coming through and saying,

693
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:31,679
"Hey, you have to decrease that number

694
00:28:31,679 --> 00:28:36,960
now." Like, okay. Um

695
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,080
then um I saw that the change in animal

696
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,760
units and table 26 for egg one districts

697
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,320
looked like it got cut in half. Is that

698
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,720
kind of along the lines of the feed lot

699
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,389
requirements or

700
00:28:52,399 --> 00:28:55,679
» Yes, that is uh that's in line a little

701
00:28:55,679 --> 00:28:58,240
bit more closely in line with um some of

702
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,480
the MPCA standards. So they have a

703
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,600
range. It's all dependent on

704
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,279
the way that the chickens are basically

705
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:06,720
being fed. So there's different animal

706
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,559
units for chickens, at least at the

707
00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:10,480
state level, if they're eating dry food,

708
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,720
if they're free range or liquid manure,

709
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,720
uh sorry, liquid feed. Um and so we're

710
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,120
the number that we've updated our uh

711
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,399
feed lot unit to is is a little bit more

712
00:29:22,399 --> 00:29:24,240
in line with what the the state and the

713
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,640
MPCA is uh has. So that's the the reason

714
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,399
for that. And then obviously if we're

715
00:29:30,399 --> 00:29:32,640
going to update the one for the chickens

716
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,120
because fowl um things like ducks and

717
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,399
geese also produce more we had to just

718
00:29:38,399 --> 00:29:40,799
you know increase their uh animal unit

719
00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:43,360
in in step with with chickens.

720
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,840
>> Okay. Thank you.

721
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,120
>> I had a couple questions if I could. Um

722
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,440
it looks like it's in the notes. Those

723
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,600
opposed typically cited concerns on

724
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,559
odors, noise, and predators.

725
00:29:56,559 --> 00:30:00,399
I guess my concern is it sounds like if

726
00:30:00,399 --> 00:30:02,320
there's, you know, if a complaint comes

727
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,120
along, the neighbor, one neighbor says

728
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,200
there there any of those things.

729
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,840
Um, the followup action from what I

730
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,440
understand, we just send a letter. I

731
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,880
mean, I think I'm afraid where this is,

732
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,799
you know, what one person thinks is a

733
00:30:18,799 --> 00:30:22,000
nuisance, the others may not, and it

734
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,240
could turn into

735
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,559
us or kind of a mediator getting

736
00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:29,919
involved, going out there. I'm little

737
00:30:29,919 --> 00:30:32,000
concerned police might be out there.

738
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,360
You're talking about a misdemeanor. is

739
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:34,720
that [gasps]

740
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,480
I just I'm a little worried we're

741
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,799
opening the door to something that might

742
00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:41,600
be somewhat vague between neighbors and

743
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,320
having a lot of problems between them

744
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,559
and us getting dragged in to try and

745
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:48,960
resolve that

746
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,760
or not. Is that what's been the history

747
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,840
at other cities? I mean, it just seems

748
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,600
like it could potentially be a problem.

749
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,600
>> Yeah, Metamean Council. So, there's I'm

750
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,360
going to kind of have a three-part

751
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,200
answer to this. The first part is we

752
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,600
already get those calls. We there's

753
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,279
neighbor disputes that happen all the

754
00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:06,640
time for various different reasons.

755
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,240
Chickens have actually been some of

756
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,039
those reasons in the past. Um so we do

757
00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:13,039
treat that the same as we would with any

758
00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:16,080
other call. There is that fine line of

759
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,000
is this just a neighbor disagreement and

760
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,760
a civil issue. If that's the case, we

761
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,919
push it say this is a civil issue. It's

762
00:31:21,919 --> 00:31:23,760
not a violation of our code. If you want

763
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,600
to pursue your own civil action, go

764
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,080
ahead do that. But there's nothing from

765
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,200
a ci city standpoint that we can do. um

766
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,399
from a I think Zach kind of touched on

767
00:31:34,399 --> 00:31:37,519
the um piece of what other cities have

768
00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:40,080
seen and what I've seen in the past in

769
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,080
my career. It tends to be in the

770
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,600
summertime

771
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,480
and it's usually those that are chickens

772
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,240
that are getting free. I think that's

773
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,320
one of the key factors of what that

774
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,159
number and putting a limit on the number

775
00:31:52,159 --> 00:31:54,880
of six. It helps reduce the smell.

776
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,279
That's kind of the big thing. Smells

777
00:31:57,279 --> 00:32:01,519
typically are generally tied to large

778
00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:04,640
quantities of the birds and on hot days

779
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,320
with wind blowing. That's usually when

780
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,080
you get the most of the smell to be

781
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,720
transferred across property lines. With

782
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,159
that being said, it's also very easy

783
00:32:12,159 --> 00:32:14,080
from a staff perspective to tell if that

784
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,480
is the case. If there's a blatant

785
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,200
violation like smell if they have a

786
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:20,880
license and we can contact them. That's

787
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,640
kind of the best thing with it. We will

788
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,880
have their phone number. Well, we'll do

789
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,200
a letter spec specifically if they don't

790
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,320
have a license. The license grant us the

791
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,000
ability to have the contact information

792
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,480
for everyone. So, trying to reduce that

793
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,159
number of days, especially on a smell

794
00:32:36,159 --> 00:32:38,720
type violation. Those are pretty easy.

795
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,880
Um, from the rodent one, from the cities

796
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,640
that I've talked to in the past, they

797
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,320
didn't see an uptick in rodents in with

798
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,480
the chickens coming in. Now, whether

799
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,720
that's getting calls on it or not,

800
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,640
usually a city's not going to be the one

801
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,399
to get a ton of calls on that. Um,

802
00:32:56,399 --> 00:32:58,960
and then

803
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,519
I would say just generally the way that

804
00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:03,840
the ordinance was written was to be as

805
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,240
clear and straightforward as process.

806
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:07,600
And kind of like we talked about in the

807
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,200
work session when we did it, really

808
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,840
bulking up on that nuisance

809
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,840
section more than what I've seen other

810
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,799
cities have just to have clear standards

811
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:19,679
and clear enforcement ability for any

812
00:33:19,679 --> 00:33:21,840
nuisance conditions that come up. So, we

813
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,279
tried to be I don't want to call it

814
00:33:23,279 --> 00:33:24,880
restrictive because it's not technically

815
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,600
restrictive, but it's defined enough to

816
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,279
where it's pretty easy from an

817
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:31,360
enforcement standpoint to notice a

818
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:36,070
violation and act upon that violation.

819
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,000
» And with regards to the P, if I read

820
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,559
this right, the yard needs to be fenced.

821
00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:41,519
Is that correct?

822
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:43,200
>> Yeah. Metamean Council. So, there's kind

823
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,200
of two parts to that. The run has to be

824
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,600
fully enclosed that the and that's

825
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,640
really tied to predators. So when we say

826
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,399
fully enclosed, it's with a mesh wiring,

827
00:33:52,399 --> 00:33:54,640
but that includes a top. So that means

828
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,559
even at nighttime if they're not within

829
00:33:56,559 --> 00:33:57,840
the coupe, which usually they're going

830
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,440
to be in the coupe, but if they're not,

831
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,039
there's not the ability for a predator

832
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:03,440
to go into the coupe. And they're also

833
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,919
not ranging free for the whole day. So

834
00:34:05,919 --> 00:34:07,440
there's kind of the two pieces. There's

835
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,159
a fence component, which would keep the

836
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:12,320
first wave of predators out, you could

837
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,119
say, and then the actual coupe standards

838
00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:16,879
would be one that would restrict any

839
00:34:16,879 --> 00:34:19,200
ability for a predator to come in. But

840
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,599
the backyard has to be fully fenced. Is

841
00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:22,320
that correct

842
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,960
>> in certain circumstances? Yes.

843
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,919
>> Okay.

844
00:34:27,919 --> 00:34:30,639
>> That would be due to like proximity to

845
00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:34,079
neighbor property. So smaller smaller

846
00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:36,399
yards is the distance to the neighboring

847
00:34:36,399 --> 00:34:36,800
property.

848
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,560
>> It's just if if you want them to roam

849
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,720
the yard, the yard has to be fenced.

850
00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:42,000
>> Correct.

851
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:42,960
>> They're still going to need to have a

852
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,280
coupe and everything to go with it. Uh,

853
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:46,960
yes.

854
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,679
>> But if you keep them in the coupe,

855
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,440
you don't have to have a fence. You're

856
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,399
saying

857
00:34:52,399 --> 00:34:53,839
>> you would it? Well, it depends a lot

858
00:34:53,839 --> 00:34:55,359
size ties. I'll let Zach kind of expand

859
00:34:55,359 --> 00:34:56,960
on it, but

860
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,640
>> I'm just trying to I want to be able to

861
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,400
answer my neighbors questions when they

862
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,720
ask me later tonight when I get home.

863
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:06,079
>> Madame Mayor and counselors, uh, so a

864
00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:08,720
couple of things. So yes, in most cases,

865
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:10,560
especially on small lots, a resident is

866
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,000
going to have to have a fence anyways,

867
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,520
even if they weren't going to let their

868
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,760
chickens roam in that fenced area. And

869
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,359
that's mostly due to the visual uh it's

870
00:35:21,359 --> 00:35:23,520
I guess it's two things. It's one to if

871
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,680
they, you know, confines the chickens in

872
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,920
a fenced area as well as reducing the

873
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,040
visual impact of a neighbor having uh

874
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:32,960
to, you know, to see the the chicken

875
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,520
coupe. Um, as Brett touched on though,

876
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,560
uh, the ordinance is kind of written to,

877
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,960
uh, and have kind of two components. So,

878
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,960
the chicken coupe, which is in our

879
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,320
ordinance, going to be defined as like

880
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,320
the actual, for lack of a better term,

881
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:47,520
kind of the house that they would live

882
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,240
in, right? And then the chicken run area

883
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,400
which uh is the area that needs to be

884
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,280
fully enclosed even from the top um with

885
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,560
a w mesh wiring or if they choose to do

886
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,280
a solid roof they they can but then it

887
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:02,960
does count towards the actual size of

888
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,400
the accessory structure which is um a

889
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:07,680
consideration that residents will have

890
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,200
to make. But uh yes, they will have to

891
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,599
be either in the run area during the day

892
00:36:13,599 --> 00:36:16,720
in that enclosed mesh area or in a fully

893
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:19,920
enclosed fenced yard. Um as well as the

894
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,359
ordinance has a a section that does

895
00:36:23,359 --> 00:36:25,359
require residents to put the chickens in

896
00:36:25,359 --> 00:36:27,520
the actual coupe, not just the run area

897
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,920
at night from sunset to sunrise. And

898
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,400
that's we put that in staff put that in

899
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,960
for two reasons. one to reduce potential

900
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,359
noise issues, you know, late at night,

901
00:36:37,359 --> 00:36:40,480
as well as predators tend to, not

902
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,640
always, but you know, predators tend to,

903
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,359
especially a lot of suburban uh

904
00:36:45,359 --> 00:36:47,599
predators tend to strike more at night.

905
00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:49,119
And so having them actually in a house

906
00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:52,400
versus in that uh meshed area, um is

907
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:53,520
part of the reason we have that in

908
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,520
there. Um

909
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,280
so yes, I hope that it kind of answered

910
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:58,960
that. Just to be clear, your statement

911
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,720
on fencing and size of the lot, it's not

912
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:05,839
a perimeter fence, it's screening,

913
00:37:05,839 --> 00:37:07,680
right? That's the way I interpreted the

914
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,119
way you described it.

915
00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:11,359
>> Yeah. So, it doesn't technically have to

916
00:37:11,359 --> 00:37:12,880
be a perimeter fence. If they want to

917
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,040
fence an area for their chickens to

918
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,040
roam, similar to what you some people

919
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,320
have done with dogs, you could

920
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,400
theoretically do that. But section seven

921
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:21,920
of the ordinance is what Zach was kind

922
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:23,839
of referring to. It states, "Men shall

923
00:37:23,839 --> 00:37:25,599
be confined in a coupe from sunrise to

924
00:37:25,599 --> 00:37:27,680
sunset during daylight." hours. Hens

925
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,520
must be provided with access to the run

926
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,160
area. Hens may range outside the Cooper

927
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,800
run only within a fully fenced rear yard

928
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,359
or or on the premise. So, it doesn't

929
00:37:37,359 --> 00:37:39,680
technically have to be perimeter fence.

930
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,599
They could have a fenced area with an

931
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:45,910
open top.

932
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,839
» So, when you say mesh, like how how

933
00:37:49,839 --> 00:37:53,359
small of an opening on mesh?

934
00:37:53,359 --> 00:37:55,520
Uh I believe let me I just want to I

935
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,079
believe it's 1 inch is the standard that

936
00:37:58,079 --> 00:38:02,960
we actually have. Uh yes section 5D. Let

937
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,320
me make sure here. Yep. Uh the run must

938
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:07,760
be completely enclosed including from

939
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,079
above by either a solid roofing or a

940
00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:13,040
mesh uh wire hardware cloth or something

941
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,800
similar. Um no uh no openings larger

942
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,680
than 1 in. Um, as well as it has to be

943
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,119
sufficient enough to contain the hens

944
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:23,520
and exclude predators such as uh wild

945
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,000
birds. So,

946
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,240
it's we're kind of leaving it up to

947
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:31,119
residents on how they want to, you know,

948
00:38:31,119 --> 00:38:33,119
if they want to use a net or a wire

949
00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:36,000
mesh. Um, but it does have to be small

950
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,880
enough that it's uh and and strong

951
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,160
enough to um to exclude predators or

952
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,960
other birds. Yeah, [clears throat]

953
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,720
>> it's going to be problematic with heavy

954
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:48,560
wet snow.

955
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:49,200
Yeah.

956
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,079
>> I mean, yeah, but they they're going to

957
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:54,079
have to manage it.

958
00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:56,640
>> I guess my concern here is just that I

959
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,400
mean, obviously there's support for it

960
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,160
and there's those that maybe don't want

961
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,480
it and they're going there'll be people

962
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:03,760
living next door with different

963
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,480
opinions. And if the ones against it

964
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,839
just call up and say, "It's loud. I can

965
00:39:09,839 --> 00:39:12,880
smell it. I've seen predators around.

966
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,880
What are you going to do about it?"

967
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,680
I just don't want to get us drugged into

968
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,960
a bunch of that. Either you're sending

969
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,640
csos out or our staff's going out or

970
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,160
we're spending an inordinate amount of

971
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:30,720
time on it. I respect people's

972
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:33,440
right to to use their backyard as they

973
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,440
see fit. But I also think about the

974
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,040
neighbors and want to make sure this

975
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,920
isn't creating

976
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,960
a bunch of headache for our staff and

977
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,000
our residents and you know just we

978
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,839
creating something that's going to be

979
00:39:47,839 --> 00:39:51,040
hard to deal with and I hate to be

980
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,640
sitting here hearing well now we need

981
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,640
some more staff to deal with it or

982
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,760
whatever. I just I'm relying a lot on

983
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,000
you saying we've got the adequate

984
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,200
language in the licensing part of this

985
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,359
that if those kinds of vague situations

986
00:40:07,359 --> 00:40:09,520
come up with we just are we going to be

987
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,599
able to just put a stop to it or are we

988
00:40:11,599 --> 00:40:16,240
going to get dragged into legal things?

989
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:18,000
That's my concern. Madame Mayor and

990
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,599
Council, the one thing I will just note

991
00:40:19,599 --> 00:40:21,760
on this is

992
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,680
we are at a position where a lot of

993
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,079
cities have already allowed chickens

994
00:40:26,079 --> 00:40:28,320
when those cities have kind of taken the

995
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,960
burden of dealing with unique situations

996
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,040
and there's a lot of resources to aid in

997
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,320
our city as we begin to take this step.

998
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,960
Um, numerous cities that are even

999
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,880
similar to us with the growing

1000
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:42,640
community. Lakeville just bumped their

1001
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,960
ordinance up to six chickens for the

1002
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,320
smallest lots I think two weeks ago. So

1003
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,680
we have ability to learn and get best

1004
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,040
practices from that which will ease the

1005
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,560
burden on staff time. The license while

1006
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,440
it does add some staff time. I'm not

1007
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:02,720
fearing that this is going to be

1008
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:05,520
suddenly that hey this is blowing out my

1009
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,599
department and we can't deal with what

1010
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:10,000
we have anymore. If it was an annual

1011
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,480
license, I would feel differently. Um,

1012
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,480
but being a onetime license, it really

1013
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:19,200
aids our benefit. Um, we will handle

1014
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,359
complaints how we always do. It's a code

1015
00:41:21,359 --> 00:41:23,920
enforcement issue. License makes I think

1016
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,960
code enforcement actually easier for us.

1017
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:28,480
>> Mayor,

1018
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,000
>> if I may, just in response to the

1019
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,680
counselor's question, I'm going to say

1020
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,119
something staff. Tell me if I'm wrong

1021
00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:34,800
because I haven't studied what you're

1022
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,560
proposing here nearly as much as you

1023
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,400
have. But to your point uh counselor

1024
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,560
about you know the concerns are smell

1025
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,200
sound predators my understanding of the

1026
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,640
ordinance is that you've got some

1027
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,560
objective standards setback requirements

1028
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,440
a cage requirement a run requirement a

1029
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,520
pen requirement and other objective

1030
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,440
requirements that are meant to address

1031
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,200
those things. But if a person is uh has

1032
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,000
a license and has a compliant facility,

1033
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,119
has the run and the coupe uh all

1034
00:42:05,119 --> 00:42:07,119
compliant with the requirements, a

1035
00:42:07,119 --> 00:42:09,680
neighbor's complaint that the chickens

1036
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,920
are too noisy, just is not something the

1037
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,920
staff is going to deal with. I mean, the

1038
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,319
question is whether the facilities are

1039
00:42:16,319 --> 00:42:18,319
compliant or not. And that's an

1040
00:42:18,319 --> 00:42:20,960
objective question. And you know, and

1041
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,200
the reality is that you could have a

1042
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,760
compliant coupe and the chickens may

1043
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,400
make noise. Um, and those noises could

1044
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:29,760
be heard, but that's just the

1045
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,760
consequence of allowing chickens. Um,

1046
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,359
and so, so it do I have that basically

1047
00:42:35,359 --> 00:42:36,560
right, staff?

1048
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,040
>> Yeah, Madame Mayor Council. Uh, that's

1049
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,119
correct. That is a really good way to

1050
00:42:41,119 --> 00:42:44,880
look at it. Um, in a lot of ways, it's a

1051
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,359
lot very similar to dogs.

1052
00:42:47,359 --> 00:42:49,440
It's keeping of animals. there's dogs

1053
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,839
that we get calls on and there's a lot

1054
00:42:51,839 --> 00:42:53,359
of times where we can't address those

1055
00:42:53,359 --> 00:42:55,280
items related to dogs because it's not a

1056
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,839
violation of the ordinance. The

1057
00:42:57,839 --> 00:42:59,280
intention of the license and the

1058
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,079
ordinance is to ensure that we have the

1059
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:05,200
best set of standards possible to ensure

1060
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,280
that everyone knows what they need to

1061
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:08,960
do, how it needs to operate, and we have

1062
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:10,880
enforceable measures that we can address

1063
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,270
if we need to.

1064
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,040
The only one other comment I have is

1065
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,680
just the aesthetics of the coupe. And

1066
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:20,720
again, [clears throat] I know you

1067
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:25,200
describe it in here, but can it be

1068
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:26,960
can someone just cobble something

1069
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,680
together out of scrap

1070
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:30,240
>> pallets?

1071
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:34,079
or not? I mean, what how does

1072
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:35,280
you know, how's that going to look in

1073
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:36,880
backyards? I guess

1074
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,040
>> madame mayor and councel if you look at

1075
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,599
section 5C of the ordinance that's what

1076
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:43,440
really tries to deal with the coupe

1077
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,280
itself it says coupe shall be

1078
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,119
constructed of durable material shall be

1079
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:49,119
winter rise to protect hens from extreme

1080
00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:51,680
temperatures and shall be resistant

1081
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,760
um so and then it goes on to talk about

1082
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,760
ventilation insulation and a window

1083
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,599
related to it um so this is really

1084
00:43:59,599 --> 00:44:02,720
trying to hit the coupe itself you can't

1085
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:04,640
just put a box in your yard and call it

1086
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,079
a coupe we're going to actually want to

1087
00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:07,200
see that as part of the license

1088
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,640
application of what that coupe is going

1089
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,640
to be made of. So

1090
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,400
>> that's part of the license application,

1091
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:13,440
>> correct? Yeah. They're going to have to

1092
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:14,640
show details about the coupe.

1093
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:15,040
>> Oh,

1094
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:16,640
>> and isn't there a requirement too that

1095
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,160
it has to either be elevated or on slab

1096
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:21,040
for the coupe?

1097
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:22,800
>> Yeah.

1098
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,160
>> The mayor counselors Yes. Uh so the

1099
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,240
Yeah, the coupe floor um will have to be

1100
00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:30,720
elevated at least 12 in, not more than

1101
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:32,960
24 in above grade unless it's uh

1102
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,240
constructed on a concrete slab. or other

1103
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:39,440
rodent resistant um foundation. And the

1104
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,680
main reasoning for that is I mean the

1105
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,640
rodent part is in there, but uh

1106
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,160
additionally research into this um

1107
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,280
ventilation and just air flow can do a

1108
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,839
lot to reduce smells that uh can build

1109
00:44:53,839 --> 00:44:56,400
up. And so, um, that's part of it as

1110
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:01,040
well as, uh, rodent resistance, keeping it off

1111
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,200
the ground or on concrete, as well as,

1112
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:10,240
um, some air flow underneath that can help reduce, uh, reduce smells.

1113
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:12,880
>> And there's a requirement too for like

1114
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,800
storage of waste and feed.

1115
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,079
>> That's correct. Yes. So, uh, waste will

1116
00:45:20,079 --> 00:45:22,400
have to be, I believe, let's see what

1117
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,880
section is that in here. Um, I know it's

1118
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,520
it has to be contained in like a leak

1119
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:28,960
proof container is I believe how it's

1120
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,040
worded in the ordinance. Uh, as well as

1121
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,599
um until it can be disposed of properly,

1122
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:38,319
which in most cases I would imagine

1123
00:45:38,319 --> 00:45:41,280
every any resident that's having trash

1124
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,359
services um they would have to wait

1125
00:45:43,359 --> 00:45:44,720
until they can, you know, dispose of it

1126
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:47,599
then. Uh and then feed needs to be

1127
00:45:47,599 --> 00:45:50,000
stored in uh just a road and proof

1128
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,400
container is how it's worded in the the

1129
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,520
ordinance. Um there was some discussion

1130
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,599
uh amongst planning commissioners of

1131
00:45:57,599 --> 00:45:59,520
should we update this the language there

1132
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,079
to be a metal container. Uh but

1133
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:04,640
ultimately we I think staff feels and um

1134
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:05,839
having a conversation with the

1135
00:46:05,839 --> 00:46:07,119
commissioner that raised that question

1136
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:10,480
that just leaving it rodent proof is

1137
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,240
probably the better way to go versus

1138
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:13,680
being so prescriptive that it has to be

1139
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:14,880
metal. I mean, there's other materials

1140
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,440
that somebody could um you know, build a

1141
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,440
container out of that's still road

1142
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:24,150
proof. So,

1143
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:25,359
» Madam Mayor,

1144
00:46:25,359 --> 00:46:26,640
>> yes,

1145
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,119
>> I've had several people in my area come

1146
00:46:29,119 --> 00:46:32,400
to me and they said number one, the

1147
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,480
point 2 lots

1148
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,400
very encroachable

1149
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,040
and very unsightly,

1150
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,359
especially for people that have elevated

1151
00:46:41,359 --> 00:46:44,640
decks that cover the whole neighborhood

1152
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,880
in the backyard.

1153
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,640
They're worried about loss of value

1154
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,720
because some neighbor has a chicken

1155
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:54,319
coupe.

1156
00:46:54,319 --> 00:46:56,960
Might be a little petty, but it's a

1157
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:58,720
fact.

1158
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:00,480
They're also available that they cannot

1159
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,359
shield that from the neighbor

1160
00:47:03,359 --> 00:47:05,440
and that they would still with the

1161
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,640
smallest lots that we do have don't have

1162
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,200
the room in the backyard to accommodate

1163
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,160
the chicken coupe and still have a

1164
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,920
sightly backyard.

1165
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:19,680
Another thing I don't like is the

1166
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,960
licensing practice. It was on sorry the

1167
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,040
licensing practice. I see a slippery

1168
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:26,560
slope

1169
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,640
non- inspection of the licenses.

1170
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,280
We want to trust people but a lot of

1171
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,079
people will push it to the envelope

1172
00:47:36,079 --> 00:47:38,480
and if we get into enforcement then we

1173
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,720
get into cost.

1174
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:44,720
So I don't like that idea either.

1175
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:48,160
I think in my personal opinion

1176
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,000
I'm not in favor of this ordinance at

1177
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:51,359
all.

1178
00:47:51,359 --> 00:47:55,280
So that's where I stand on it and we'll

1179
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,760
go from there.

1180
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:59,599
>> Thank you.

1181
00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:02,160
>> Did those issues come up at the planning

1182
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,680
commission? I mean, what was the gist of

1183
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,880
the testimony and people that talked was

1184
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,240
it are they supportive?

1185
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:11,680
>> Yeah. Men, mayor and council. So during

1186
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,119
the public hearing, I would say there

1187
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:16,319
was five individuals who spoke. I would

1188
00:48:16,319 --> 00:48:19,520
say three were in favor of the chickens.

1189
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,359
Um,

1190
00:48:21,359 --> 00:48:24,800
and two had some concerns. Some wanted

1191
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,880
licensing. Of the concerns, that was

1192
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:28,480
probably the most common item that I

1193
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:29,920
heard that if you're going to do the

1194
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,319
ordinance, have a license to go with it.

1195
00:48:32,319 --> 00:48:32,800
>> Okay.

1196
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,440
>> Uh, or permit, one of the two. And I

1197
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:36,559
think it was more geared towards a

1198
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:38,079
permit during that discussion.

1199
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:38,400
>> Okay.

1200
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:39,839
>> Um, but obviously the language wasn't

1201
00:48:39,839 --> 00:48:42,559
worked out quite yet. Um, I would say

1202
00:48:42,559 --> 00:48:45,200
the ones that spoke in favor of it, it

1203
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,359
was quite a learning experience. They

1204
00:48:47,359 --> 00:48:49,280
had a lot of great information. I would

1205
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,200
say the especially one individual who

1206
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,599
spoke I would consider to be a very

1207
00:48:53,599 --> 00:48:57,119
responsible owner and I learned a lot

1208
00:48:57,119 --> 00:48:59,040
just by hearing him speak and I'd say

1209
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:00,400
some of those things influenced some of

1210
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,480
the language changes that we had.

1211
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,240
>> So I'd say it's generally positive after

1212
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:08,640
the meeting itself. There was a few

1213
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,920
individuals who emailed um which is one

1214
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,319
which changed that chick age of having

1215
00:49:14,319 --> 00:49:17,200
to go out cuz there was things about

1216
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:18,640
chickens bullying each other if they're

1217
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,720
not the right size when they get

1218
00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:22,559
introduced. So that was important to

1219
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:24,880
learn. And then another individual spoke

1220
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,359
out against the chickens, stated

1221
00:49:27,359 --> 00:49:29,839
concerns. Um, I shared the ordinance

1222
00:49:29,839 --> 00:49:32,480
with her and kind of highlighted the

1223
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,800
items of the ordinance for her concerns

1224
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,960
and after that she was generally fine

1225
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,720
with it. Um, so it kind of ranged, but I

1226
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:43,280
would say I've dealt with chickens in

1227
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,000
every city that I've ever worked for.

1228
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,920
It's always split. It will always be

1229
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:49,920
split. There are always going to be

1230
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,200
residents who don't want it. There are

1231
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:52,640
always going to be residents who do want

1232
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,040
it. say during the survey and through

1233
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,000
the process, I've seen more that do want

1234
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:59,680
it than I generally have seen in

1235
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,680
comparison to those opposed. Um, so we

1236
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,440
tried to kind of create an ordinance

1237
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,599
that hit a lot of different pieces to

1238
00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:09,680
it, but in the end, this is a policy

1239
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,319
decision. It's up to council discretion

1240
00:50:12,319 --> 00:50:13,760
if you want to move forward with it, if

1241
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,599
you want alterations to it, or if you

1242
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:18,559
don't want to move forward with it.

1243
00:50:18,559 --> 00:50:20,559
on the neighbor. So the gentleman that

1244
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:23,119
spoke that had the chickens already, he

1245
00:50:23,119 --> 00:50:24,480
did mention that he went to his

1246
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,119
neighbors ahead of time.

1247
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:29,920
>> Mor and councel, he I think it was

1248
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:31,599
during the enforcement of his chickens

1249
00:50:31,599 --> 00:50:33,440
is when he went to his neighbors. And

1250
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,119
>> sure, but I mean the point is that he

1251
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:37,440
went to his neighbors, got a, you know,

1252
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,680
agreement from them that it was okay.

1253
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,920
And I'm not saying we want that in the

1254
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:45,520
ordinance cuz that's a burden, but it

1255
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,040
wouldn't hurt to say that's a best

1256
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:47,760
practice.

1257
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:49,440
>> Yeah. Metame and council that's a great

1258
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,520
point. I wouldn't ever recommend that to

1259
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,920
be a requirement as part of a license.

1260
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:55,520
Obviously, neighbors change, things

1261
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,839
happen, and it becomes a very tough

1262
00:50:59,839 --> 00:51:02,640
enforcement piece. We will have that on

1263
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,559
the website as part of our best

1264
00:51:04,559 --> 00:51:06,000
practices. We're going to have handouts

1265
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,319
that are a lot more detailed and cover a

1266
00:51:08,319 --> 00:51:09,839
lot more than this ordinance does in

1267
00:51:09,839 --> 00:51:12,400
terms of actual keeping of the chickens.

1268
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,880
As attorney Vos mentioned, this is very

1269
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,960
structured on where that placement is,

1270
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,640
how it's going to be set on the

1271
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,559
property, things of that nature. The

1272
00:51:20,559 --> 00:51:22,240
best practices and the handouts we're

1273
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:23,599
going to have is really on the keeping

1274
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:25,440
of chickens, the care of chickens, the

1275
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,839
best practices, and with that being

1276
00:51:27,839 --> 00:51:30,319
said, how to be a good neighbor. What

1277
00:51:30,319 --> 00:51:31,839
talk to your neighbors about it,

1278
00:51:31,839 --> 00:51:33,920
recommend we do that, but it's not part

1279
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,359
of the license process.

1280
00:51:37,359 --> 00:51:40,240
So, I think I asked this question

1281
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:41,839
previously, but I'm going to ask it

1282
00:51:41,839 --> 00:51:44,800
again. Um, for those point 2 acre

1283
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:46,960
properties, how many of those fall

1284
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,559
within HOAs? So, most likely there's a

1285
00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:51,760
chance they wouldn't be able to have

1286
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,359
chickens in

1287
00:51:53,359 --> 00:51:55,920
>> council. I I don't know the exact

1288
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,559
number. There are quite a few. And this

1289
00:51:58,559 --> 00:52:00,720
ordinance is not going to super if an

1290
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:03,119
HOA has a rule, they can enforce that

1291
00:52:03,119 --> 00:52:04,800
rule. If they don't allow chickens,

1292
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,160
that's the HOA. If they're in if someone

1293
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,319
gets chickens in violation of their HOA,

1294
00:52:10,319 --> 00:52:12,319
it's up to the HOA to enforce it. We

1295
00:52:12,319 --> 00:52:14,800
aren't going to enforce HOA bylaws on

1296
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:16,400
their behalf. We don't do that for

1297
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,280
anything. We enforce our rules. So, HOAs

1298
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,920
have the ability to restrict chickens or

1299
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,319
have higher restrictions than we have in

1300
00:52:24,319 --> 00:52:26,079
this ordinance. So they

1301
00:52:26,079 --> 00:52:27,680
>> you can have a coupe, but it has to be

1302
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,400
50 ft from residential structures if

1303
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,079
they wanted to, but that's up to their

1304
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:34,960
HOA boards to decide.

1305
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:40,710
>> Okay. Thank you.

1306
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:42,559
I'm in favor, but the only thing that

1307
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:44,559
makes me uncomfortable is someone like

1308
00:52:44,559 --> 00:52:47,839
the deck thing. If these decks in our

1309
00:52:47,839 --> 00:52:50,000
neighborhood in some of the smaller

1310
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,599
lots, um, they're budding up to the

1311
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:57,599
they're taking up most of the art. So,

1312
00:52:57,599 --> 00:53:03,030
I could see that becoming a problem.

1313
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:04,480
And I don't know if there's a way to

1314
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,960
word it so that

1315
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,599
it's just advised that you don't you

1316
00:53:09,599 --> 00:53:12,240
take your neighbors into account like be

1317
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:15,119
respectful of your neighbors yard too,

1318
00:53:15,119 --> 00:53:16,720
right?

1319
00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:18,000
>> I mean I worry about that.

1320
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:18,960
>> That's a hard one.

1321
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:20,480
>> Madame Mayor and Council, if you want to

1322
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,480
go that route, I think we could easily

1323
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,280
make a slight alteration to the wording

1324
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,520
to just say

1325
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,160
dwelling structure including attached

1326
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,839
accessory. I like that

1327
00:53:31,839 --> 00:53:33,040
>> items

1328
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:34,319
>> including decks.

1329
00:53:34,319 --> 00:53:36,160
>> Yeah, I like that too. The attached

1330
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:37,760
accessory.

1331
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,839
>> Yeah, I'm good with attached because

1332
00:53:39,839 --> 00:53:45,270
everything else I'm fine with. But

1333
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:46,960
» yeah, Madame Mayor Council, would you

1334
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:48,880
want it to be worded in a way that also

1335
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,640
includes patios?

1336
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,800
>> I would. Yeah. Yes.

1337
00:53:52,800 --> 00:54:02,150
>> Thank you.

1338
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,640
Do you have any data on

1339
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,559
>> chicken coops reducing somebody's

1340
00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:12,309
property value?

1341
00:54:12,319 --> 00:54:15,119
Madame Marian Council, I do not um think

1342
00:54:15,119 --> 00:54:16,720
and I don't

1343
00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:18,640
>> I would say that comes up a lot for

1344
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:20,880
>> Well, it's always the car played is

1345
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:22,480
whatever it is I don't like is going to

1346
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,359
reduce my property value and I

1347
00:54:25,359 --> 00:54:27,440
>> it's an old tired

1348
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,520
>> Yeah. Metamean council. That's actually

1349
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,079
one that I haven't heard in the past um

1350
00:54:32,079 --> 00:54:33,119
in the [clears throat]

1351
00:54:33,119 --> 00:54:34,880
four different three times I've looked

1352
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,960
at chicken ordinances. So, I'm not sure

1353
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:38,800
on that. I've never seen a study on that

1354
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:39,440
personally.

1355
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,280
>> Okay, Mr. reckoning.

1356
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,200
>> I would agree if as long as they're

1357
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,000
decent like in the picture here. I mean,

1358
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,680
this is

1359
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,520
>> almost could be mistaken for a backyard

1360
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:50,240
playet.

1361
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:51,040
>> Well, yeah. I mean,

1362
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:52,800
>> those kids can be pretty noisy.

1363
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:53,839
>> What I'm talking about, though, is

1364
00:54:53,839 --> 00:54:57,680
that's a pretty ideal example. And I

1365
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:58,880
think to your point,

1366
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,040
>> this little

1367
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,559
>> But how do you how do you know that

1368
00:55:02,559 --> 00:55:05,359
that's the exception to the rule?

1369
00:55:05,359 --> 00:55:06,559
>> Yeah, maybe not.

1370
00:55:06,559 --> 00:55:08,000
>> We don't we don't we don't know that.

1371
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:09,520
>> Past history.

1372
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:10,240
So

1373
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:13,119
>> I was in Ripon, Wisconsin. We had the

1374
00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:15,359
same discussion.

1375
00:55:15,359 --> 00:55:17,440
There was one chicken coupe that looked

1376
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,000
similar to this. Breast look like a

1377
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,720
cardboard box with a tin roof.

1378
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:24,160
>> That's not We're not going to allow

1379
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:24,640
that.

1380
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:26,720
>> Yeah, our ordinance specifies how it's

1381
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:27,359
supposed to look.

1382
00:55:27,359 --> 00:55:28,480
>> That's what the ordinance said.

1383
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,040
>> I get what you're saying and I agree. We

1384
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,359
can't we have to be very specific about

1385
00:55:33,359 --> 00:55:34,960
what we're going to allow because there

1386
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:36,720
will be people that will do the

1387
00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:38,640
cardboard box thing if we let them.

1388
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:40,640
>> But that but that's not a durable

1389
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:41,359
material,

1390
00:55:41,359 --> 00:55:44,710
>> right?

1391
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:46,000
And then you learn in the middle of

1392
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,000
winter that a cardboard box is not going

1393
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:49,119
to

1394
00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:52,549
>> Right.

1395
00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:54,880
I mean, we could easily find a whole

1396
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:58,400
bunch of reasons to to not do this.

1397
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,599
Right. Right. Any

1398
00:56:01,599 --> 00:56:04,559
other questions,

1399
00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:06,480
concerns?

1400
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,480
>> Um, I have a question about the

1401
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,200
licensing time because you mentioned it

1402
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:12,720
wouldn't take a lot of staff time. Do

1403
00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:15,280
you kind of have an idea? Is that new

1404
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,359
permitting software going to have the

1405
00:56:17,359 --> 00:56:19,280
residents enter most the info and you

1406
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:20,640
guys just review it or how does that

1407
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:20,960
work?

1408
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:22,720
>> Yeah, Madame Mayor and Council. So, IMS

1409
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:24,559
is an online permitting portal. We're

1410
00:56:24,559 --> 00:56:26,079
actually transitioning all of our zoning

1411
00:56:26,079 --> 00:56:28,880
and land use items into this portal.

1412
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,160
um when it gets unveiled. Um from a

1413
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,160
licensing perspective, as someone

1414
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,119
submits the items, they'll have it goes

1415
00:56:37,119 --> 00:56:38,559
through a completeness check, which

1416
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:40,559
takes about five minutes knocking off to

1417
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:41,839
ensure that they have everything. They

1418
00:56:41,839 --> 00:56:45,440
pay the fee up front. Um we review it

1419
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,960
usually based on what's the required

1420
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:52,160
info. It would probably take five to 10

1421
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,839
minutes for each one.

1422
00:56:55,839 --> 00:56:58,160
And usually if there's like say they're

1423
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,640
missing something or they're not in

1424
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:03,119
violation through the IMS software, we

1425
00:57:03,119 --> 00:57:05,440
can directly respond to the applicant.

1426
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,280
They'll get an email directly stating

1427
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,599
it. They'll have to re-upload with any

1428
00:57:09,599 --> 00:57:12,319
changes. And so it's actually a very

1429
00:57:12,319 --> 00:57:14,960
smooth permitting software. I don't

1430
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,280
anticipate this having

1431
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,040
even close to the amount of time that

1432
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:20,559
would be needed for a signed permit

1433
00:57:20,559 --> 00:57:22,079
application.

1434
00:57:22,079 --> 00:57:24,880
And and just to reiterate,

1435
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,599
you said you you require a plan,

1436
00:57:27,599 --> 00:57:28,240
>> correct,

1437
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,640
>> for the design of the coupe and the run.

1438
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:31,680
>> Mhm.

1439
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,000
>> And which includes tell me the materials

1440
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:34,960
used, right?

1441
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,400
>> Yeah. We Yeah, we'll define everything

1442
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,000
into our permit. We haven't built out

1443
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:41,359
that permit. Obviously, we want to get

1444
00:57:41,359 --> 00:57:43,680
the ordinance figured out first in case

1445
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:45,644
there were any changes, but yeah, we'll

1446
00:57:45,644 --> 00:57:49,040
[clears throat] have all that info.

1447
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,440
something for residents to be working on

1448
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,400
now before 111

1449
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:55,359
goes into effect.

1450
00:57:55,359 --> 00:57:56,880
>> And madame mayor and council, I'll just

1451
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:58,480
kind of note on the license, there is

1452
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,000
going to be a small fee for it to cover

1453
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,640
the staff time that it will take to

1454
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,440
administer this program. Um, but with

1455
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,200
that being said, and what I've seen in

1456
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,680
the past is having a fee also shows some

1457
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:11,599
seriousness that people are taking into

1458
00:58:11,599 --> 00:58:13,280
account and actually want to go forward

1459
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:15,839
with this in a respectful manner. um

1460
00:58:15,839 --> 00:58:17,920
free permits. Typically, people get a

1461
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,079
lot more kind of loose with how they go

1462
00:58:20,079 --> 00:58:22,160
about it. So, I think the fee will show

1463
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:23,599
that commitment by the property owner,

1464
00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:25,760
but also we'll cover the staff time that

1465
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,559
we're going to need for it.

1466
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:34,470
>> Y

1467
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:36,799
it was pretty clear what you see the the

1468
00:58:36,799 --> 00:58:40,000
folks that are in favor of it. I mean,

1469
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,640
when I was a kid, I was in 4. you don't

1470
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,440
just don't see 4 anymore and I can just

1471
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,799
see parents really making an effort to

1472
00:58:48,799 --> 00:58:51,200
uh use it as an opportunity with their

1473
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:55,119
kids and animal animal husbandry and and

1474
00:58:55,119 --> 00:59:00,720
just teaching them responsibility and everything that goes with what we

1475
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:02,559
heard from the folks that participated

1476
00:59:02,559 --> 00:59:07,200
in it. I just um

1477
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,240
to cut that off just because we're

1478
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,000
afraid of a complaint just doesn't make

1479
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,880
any sense to me. So, I'm I'm in favor of

1480
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:16,720
it.

1481
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,520
>> Yeah. I think when I got here, I'm not

1482
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,000
sure I was, but I my big concern was

1483
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:23,440
just making sure we were covered with

1484
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,640
the language. And I think sounds like we

1485
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,520
are. I just want to make sure,

1486
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:31,280
like I said, trying to balance the

1487
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,280
homeowners right to do it, but also the

1488
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,440
neighbors who might not care for it.

1489
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,040
But,

1490
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:39,040
um,

1491
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:40,640
sounds to me like we've got things

1492
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,880
covered. And I wasn't unfortunately able

1493
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:44,720
to make that last get together meeting.

1494
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:50,799
So, I rely on that what you're saying. I do I think there's value in having

1495
00:59:50,799 --> 00:59:56,319
animals around, learning, and that's good stuff. So, I think I would

1496
00:59:56,319 --> 00:59:58,880
go that way as well. And

1497
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:02,400
um you mentioned verbiage on

1498
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,640
I mean I'm sure you'll pick the right

1499
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:07,839
words but just to make it very clear and

1500
01:00:07,839 --> 01:00:10,799
pretty assertive that

1501
01:00:10,799 --> 01:00:13,839
um anybody considering it can save

1502
01:00:13,839 --> 01:00:17,359
themselves a lot of headache if they do

1503
01:00:17,359 --> 01:00:20,319
make the rounds and and discuss this

1504
01:00:20,319 --> 01:00:22,400
with neighbors and they understand what

1505
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:23,760
kind of a position they're going to be

1506
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,720
in. Um,

1507
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,720
and then they can weigh whether or not

1508
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:30,051
they want to fight that battle.

1509
01:00:30,051 --> 01:00:30,960
[laughter]

1510
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:36,079
And I think that'll go a long way and

1511
01:00:36,079 --> 01:00:38,720
uh so I just would

1512
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:39,839
my suggestion [clears throat] or

1513
01:00:39,839 --> 01:00:42,480
recommendation is to to make, you know,

1514
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,920
not only recommend that they go do that,

1515
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,880
but uh give them some of those reasons

1516
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:50,720
why. Just save yourself some headache.

1517
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:53,599
You know,

1518
01:00:53,599 --> 01:00:54,960
>> madame mayor and council, I should also

1519
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:56,480
note on the license because we have this

1520
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,240
for some of the other IMS ones. When it

1521
01:00:58,240 --> 01:00:59,520
does get built out, we're going to have

1522
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:00,880
an acknowledgement where they have to

1523
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,119
check the box and it links to the code.

1524
01:01:03,119 --> 01:01:05,599
So, acknowledgement that I've read the

1525
01:01:05,599 --> 01:01:08,079
ordinance related to this where they

1526
01:01:08,079 --> 01:01:10,400
will have to check that box. So, now

1527
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,040
granted, they may not, but at least then

1528
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,040
they're actually stating that they have

1529
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:16,720
acknowledged that they've reviewed the

1530
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:17,520
code.

1531
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:18,160
>> So, yeah.

1532
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:19,920
>> Great. So they can't say they're unaware

1533
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:21,040
of the code later.

1534
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,440
>> Better Mary, that's correct.

1535
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,880
>> Yeah. Um I'm in favor. Um I'm neutral as

1536
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,000
far as chickens personally, but with the

1537
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,480
feedback from the survey and over the

1538
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,440
past few years people asking for this,

1539
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:42,069
so I'm thinking, yeah, I'm for it.

1540
01:01:42,079 --> 01:01:45,190
» Great.

1541
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:49,760
You want to present a motion? I would uh

1542
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:51,440
make a motion to adopt ordinance

1543
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:55,750
2026-14.

1544
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:57,280
» I'll second that.

1545
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:58,720
>> All right, we have a motion and a

1546
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:00,640
second. All in favor? I

1547
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:02,559
>> Oh,

1548
01:02:02,559 --> 01:02:06,309
>> jeez.

1549
01:02:06,319 --> 01:02:09,920
» Is that with the revision to add the

1550
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,000
30-foot setback not just from dwellings

1551
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,240
but also from attached

1552
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:17,280
>> accessory stuff? Is that the intent of

1553
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:17,760
them?

1554
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,559
>> Yes, that's the intent of the

1555
01:02:20,559 --> 01:02:21,119
>> Thank you.

1556
01:02:21,119 --> 01:02:26,309
>> changes recommended through discussion.

1557
01:02:26,319 --> 01:02:28,480
» Okay. And I'll second that. All right.

1558
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,319
We have a motion and a second. All in

1559
01:02:30,319 --> 01:02:31,359
favor? I

1560
01:02:31,359 --> 01:02:32,079
>> I

1561
01:02:32,079 --> 01:02:33,760
>> opposed.

1562
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:36,400
>> All right. We have a that passes four to

1563
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,359
one.

1564
01:02:39,359 --> 01:02:42,480
>> All right. We have correspondence and

1565
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,720
reports on are online and we are

1566
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:53,430
adjourned. Thank you.

1567
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:57,280
Seriously think a lot of people be